skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> They're not being forced to do anything,

It's literally a court order forcing them to not do things that they said they were going to do

A new court order will be issued in the future, but for at least the next month this is the state of things.

> meaning that Apple might not even have had the chance to defend themselves in court yet.

The hearing was literally livestreamed on zoom and (illegally I might add) on youtube.
I'm with you. They're both billions of dollars worth companies arguing about who should get which percentage of additional millions of dollars of profit.

I'm not invested at all in this debate, but I do silently hope that Epic succeeds purely for the little guys who may benefit from that.
After he fell out of the pro scene he became way more interested in chess variants than vanilla chess (more specifically his Fischer Random Chess). I can't imagine being at the level he was at, where you needed to hundreds or thousands of hours memorizing and practicing openings... so not surprised he appreciated a game that valued more on-the-fly decision making than heavy preparation.
And that's totally fine and a legitimate experience. Just be open to the idea that that is your experience, and not also the world's.
All: these Epic vs. Apple threads, and $BigCo vs. $BigCo threads in general, have unfortunately been seeing more name-calling, accusations of manipulation, flamebait/unsubstantive posts, and other things that break the HN guidelines. If you comment, can you please avoid that? Reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html would help.

The idea here is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do. Remember that every post you make has a non-negligible impact on the community. If we all treat this place like the discussion forum we'd like to have, eventually we'll have it.
But there are 2 stores, and you make the choice of packaging for one or the other. You can also make your own store, if you want. (In this analogy, that is. You cannot make a store inside a store, that’d be silly.)

Basically, you can still sell on Android, or, make your own phone/mobile operating system?
Yeah but that can be changed with a simple act of Congress and it should be. Their support is rapidly eroding the more they flex their power.
I don't think "too big to fail" is a phrase used outside the context of government bailouts. The public is acutely aware of the life and death of major companies and brands, see GE or Ford nostalgia.
Android isn't much better in this regard. There is realistic choice of two smartphone operating system vendors, both of which exercise total and random control over their stores. If you look at the frontpage of HN today, several fediverse apps were just thrown off the Google Play store, so it's a choice between pest and cholera
> What MSFT did would be equivalent to Apple forcing everyone to use its apps and not allow any competing apps.

How many HTML/CSS/DOM/JavaScript rendering engines have been available on iOS compared to Android?! Has Gecko or Presto ever been available on iOS? What is the ONLY platform in wide use today that does not support Gecko or Blink?

Apple's iOS is by far worse than the Microsoft with Windows.
And yet I have had my pleas for time go unanswered... which is "censorship" of me.
Being aware of it doesn't mean it was your preference. What if you want an iPhone for the hardware and bought it in spite of rather than because of Apple's restrictions on third party apps?

Moreover, the app you want may not have existed when you bought your first iPhone and became locked into the platform. Or it may have been on the iOS app store at that time and was subsequently removed.
I don't understand this line of reasoning. Just because you paid someone doesn't mean they are obligated to write software to allow you to do something with the thing you bought. If the thing you bought doesn't do what you want it to do, then buy a different thing that lets you do what you want. And in this case there are literally thousands of other phones you can buy.
Two reasons:

1) They use their market power over something they created in order to gain advantage in a market they did not create (payment processors). There's no technical reason to link the two except that's it's good for Apple's bottom line.

2) Apple's app store is like running a Mall where Apple rents store, or Apple being a landlord renting apartments. The agreement to receive rents comes with implied duties like allow fair competition, and Apple overtly giving themselves undue advantage violates that.
I wasn’t aware that Apple would remove an extremely popular app from the app store without giving users any option to continue using it, no.

I’m not particularly invested in Fortnite, but if Apple removes one of my favorite apps I’m going to get really cranky at any friend that suggests that I should have planned ahead for what to do if the app dev and the phone maker got in fight years after I bought my phone.
Yeah but you knew that's how it worked when you bought the phone. If you didn't like the app store model you could have bought an android right?
If only it were really that interesting.
Ok, so in your scenario it’s not a break up. But a nuclear strike. Everything Google has ceases to exist if this happens and no one else steps up to take over or fill the gaps?

There are no other email providers? There are no other map providers?
Tim Sweeney may be a wonderful man who loves open platforms, apple pie, and kittens, but:

- Android is clearly more open than iOS, but Epic is also suing Google. So is this really about sideloading? From that suit, it sure doesn't sound like it.

- When you do sideload Fortnite on your Android device, from what I understand, you can't actually sideload Fortnite directly. Instead you have sideload... the Epic Games Store!

It seems awfully clear that Epic's real goal here is to force both Apple and Google to let you install the Epic Games Store from the iOS App Store and the Google Play Store. And while I'm not much of a gamer, the stories I recall about Epic's store in the press... well, we'll just say they didn't have a "so ideals! much open!" vibe to them.

I think there's a lot of valid criticisms to be made about both the "app console" model that Apple is steadfastly pushing and the specific ways in which they're running the App Store, but I am skeptical that Epic is the general this particular battle needs.
>> still have highly skilled and fairly compensated employees

>> get along just fine

Those are 2 different standards. The domain of highly skilled and fairly compensated is a subset of companies getting along just fine. Many workers are unable to fire their boss as it were, due to lack of alternatives. It’s hard to quit when there’s no alternative job and you’re tied to an area.

Like i suggested earlier, you can’t fix this while the information and power asymmetry exists. You can certainly hide it sufficiently in most cases to get along just fine though but that is under-rewarding the labour.

>> difficult or impossible to fire poor performing

Sure, but what’s the cost of that situation?

Sometimes the cost could be so dire it kills the business. That’s not to be sniffed at for sure. Sometimes though it just protects the worker who’s trying but their kid or SO got incapacitated or something equally horrible is happening to them and the last thing they need is fired.

It’s ok if the player with the lions share of the cash pays more than their fair share from time to time.

It’s not ok to protect the player with the lion’s share at all costs even to the detriment of the poorer players.
Monopoly != anti-trust violator
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24307685
With severe limitations, you have to use all of the Xbox Live features including having multiplayer.

You still need to pay for ESRB ratings and other things.

The SDKs that are available for this program are also heavily limited it’s basically only for UWP compatible apps, and while they didn’t put it yet it looks like there will be further limitations down the line including ensuring full cross platform compatibility including with IOS and Android.

So yes if you build a game using their more limited SDK and implement all Xbox Live features they won’t take a fee other than dev account fees.

And we aren’t talking about indie devs we’re talking about fucking Epic Games.
And they'd replace it with a special browser that limits to the amp-enabled sites only. This is so obvious.
I get the vibe. Squad, maybe not. But collective? Gang? Tribe? Yeah, that's been a thing for a while, but it really accelerated lately. It's easy to stumble upon the "permeable boundaries" Heather Marsh writes of online and create an organism that isn't a legal entity and isn't for life. And there's more of them all the time.
Oh, I certainly agree it's a tickle, but at least the solution would be clear: disable JS.

Your CPU doesn't seem any slower than mine, really, so maybe that's not the problem either.
Carrington Event still provides warning of Sun’s potential 161 years later
In other words, the developers of these apps need to all run their own Fediverse nodes, _but not federate them to any others_ because otherwise users may be able to access content from nodes that Google doesn't like! Because each dev having to vet every instance out there is the only other option and that's practically impossible.
I'm not sure about the impact being noticed. I thought the wifi antenna hid behind the Apple logo on some machines, but I don't remember which machines.
Of course they can. But he is -not- saying he is denied the right to change his opinion:

"Because you don't have switching costs if you want to shop at another retailer than Target, at any time."

But this should not be a surprise to an Apple customer. This is a 'feature' of Apple products.
Well, if you don't have any advanced degree, it's still pretty obnoxious to insist on documentation a few decades on, when maybe the high school or school district doesn't even exist any more. More painful and humiliating when a high school diploma is all you've got and you've been working for like 30+ years. I know a hospital that did this and remember an applicant loudly complaining.
> There is no reason to give these censorious companies extra legal protections no other publisher has if they are censoring society.

Yes, there is a very good reason.

Traditional publishers review 100% of content before they affirmatively publish it.

User content on most websites are published by automation, and are not reviewed by humans, like this comment.
If they were texting the doctors messages would be blue if recipient had iMessage and green if normal SMS. Most likely how he found out he had an iPhone he could FaceTime.
The Hostess of today isn't the Hostess of yesterday. It was shredded up and pieced out. What is today called "Hostess" is owned by a holding companies and is not the original ownership.

They went from well over 30,000+ employees, down to 2,000 today.

Pretty sad honestly. The company was in a tight financial situation, and asked to postpone paying into the pension fund for a few years. The Bakers Union was the only holdout... and now nobody has a pension or wages.
Neuralink Demo Livestream
Why must Apple unbundle? Is it just that they are large and vertically integrated?

If you are against vertical integration, must they also be required to sell iPhones that can support other OSes? Must all devices support alternative OSes?

What about other things? Should Lyft be required to support the ability to use their app with an independent marketplace?

Personally, I am more worried about companies that spread horizontally, like Google, Facebook, and Amazon.
It's been run by the GOP as a retirement destination for the last few decades. Go figure.
How were they a monopoly if Apple had their own OS? As did many others?

Microsoft got hit for antitrust because of bundled software. What Apple does is far worse imo, not just bundling software, but the control over the store/devices is nuts.
How much would the CCP be willing to dump behind a fight to make one of the most valuable US company/brands in the world look bad?

I'm betting.. a lot.
Yes it's why freedom of speech is a thing. Ideas are meant to compete and the power to decide which ideas are acceptable is an absolute power that completely corrupts a society.
There is the cost of the other service, the districts/school have to have contracts with both. The teachers and students have to be trained on both. If webex does not work for the day our school is out. In our district although the teachers can work remote( most do) when the school site loses power or has fire evacuation orders instruction stops for all it's students.
They are also dependent on large pharmaceutical chains to accept GoodRx. Walgreens and CVS make little money on those prescriptions, and may lose money, and on top of that need to do more POS data entry to accept the coupon, so they only accept GoodRx to make customers happy and get store foot traffic. That’s not to say the situation is unstable for GoodRx but it is a risk.
> Never rely on benchmark tests unless the benchmarking code is known to be open source and compiled without using any Intel tools.

A serious question - how many common benchmark packages are compiled by ICC or uses Intel MKL? I hope the number is limited, otherwise all the benchmarks published by mainstream PC reviewers are potentially biased. If there's a serious ICC-in-benchmark problem, then only Phoronix's Linux benchmarks are trustworthy - the majority of benchmarks on Phoronix uses free and open source compilers and testsuits, with known versions, build parameters and optimization levels. Thanks Michael Larabel for his service for the community.
You can install any other store on Android; you can enable installation from any source on Android; you don't even need to jailbreak to get this option on Android.

Not possible on iOS.
> Online isn't real-life. You can test in a VM, but it will never be the same as testing on actual hardware.

Testing platforms like SauceLabs, Browserstack etc run on real hardware, even for mobile.

Testing with your own devices is of course better, but a lot more work. Which one you choose doesn't really matter, the point is just that you don't _need_ to have all those resources to do basic compatibility testing, so no excuses.
Apple does ban apps that replace built in functionality.
What's wrong with following the rules? Spectrum is shared after all...
Microsoft explicitly did not back Epic over the issue of the 30% cut, just taking away their developer license to use the Unreal engine.
> Tinder, Microsoft, Facebook, Spotify have all openly backed Epic

Oh, it's going to be so much fun when Epic wins and Taylor Swift decides to apply the same legal reasoning to the cut she pays Spotify for her music…
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I have no idea I know Steam is putting the same limitation no differential pricing other than bundles and sales.

I won’t be surprised if Microsoft has some clauses with their publishers not to have a game for cheaper on competing platforms.
Epic has a more clear case if Epic does what they want and Apple takes action against it than if Epic doesn't do what they want because they fear Apple will takr action against it. Now, the actions have taken place, there's no hypotheticals that courts dislike addressing.
So who actually uses these contacts? Who's transacting on this?
Conservative operative ousted as FDA spokeswoman after just 11 days
Bye, Epic “I hardly new ya”
I'm not sure if Apple ever explained why they didn't open up FaceTime? I seem to remember that when they presented it they said it would become an open standard?
If something is exclusive to a platform that's free to use, who cares? It's not like xbox vs playstation where you have to shell out a few hundred dollars to play an exclusive title.
See this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24310823
People keep making this argument regarding the App Store but that’s not how monopolies are defined. Apple might have strict control over their walled garden but their walled garden itself isn’t the only walled garden. As such, people can buy different handsets running different operating systems and thus use a different repository on them. The fact that Apple don’t allow other repos on iOS doesn’t make it a monopoly in the legal sense because that would be like walking into a high street supermarket and demanding they stock a competitors own brand. If, however, that happened to be the only (or within a slender margin of that) supermarket chain in the country and they still refused to work with a specific supplier who makes a competing product, then there might be grounds to file for antitrust.
This was the first time in the history of Mastodon that a toot reached the front page of Hacker News. https://mastodon.social/web/statuses/104768703650147309
Don't worry, the two individuals will totally be punished fairly for molesting 6 children. Glad the system works, right? /s
Target might exist alongside several other competing retailers on the same block. The friction for a customer to leave and shop at a competing retailer is low. To extend this analogy, The Apple store exists in a company town, and the friction for a customer to leave 'Appletown' shop at competing retailers in 'AndroidLand' is intentionally as high as possible [1].

This is not an argument as for what (if any) kind of control third parties should have over the App Store as retailer, it's an argument for why this current arrangement is exploitative, and not analogous to conventional retail platforms like Target.

[1] - https://9to5mac.com/2020/07/30/internal-emails-show-how-an-a...
Apple does no such thing.
It doesn’t look like the unreal marketplace is open. Nor the unreal engine itself.
A competitor to what? G+?
You insulate the motherboard. The aim is to allow only die contact the cup your N2 is in.

There are still problems like cpu/board/components not working due to low temperature or condensation. Generally they are solved by better insulation and trying different components until you find ones that work.

Overclocking is 25% cooling and 75% picking parts that can operate at low temperatures and high frequencies.
TYFYC.
I've heard it used on more than one occasion by large eco system players, just like in this case.
My T480's touchpad has none of the issue you describe.
A lot of forum software is "old school" (i.e. some php, perl, or even vb), which means it's a missed patch away from being compromised. Because they are "standard" engines, they are discovered and attacked often and automatically by tools, like Wordpress - they are a prime spam target for linkfarming. They typically ship a lot of dangerous features like file uploads, and overall security practices are often subpar (integration passwords saved on disk, etc).

Setting a forum up for one user seems like a big waste of time, when there are plenty of perfectly useable blog engines out there that are simpler and more secure to run. Unless, of course, one is already an expert in a particular forum engine.
Please don't call names. Your comment would be fine without the first sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I would like the developer to have the choice of what percent Apple gets (e.g. slider from 10% -> 30%) and that also determines the level of support (and discoverability on the App store?) that Apple gives. Would that type of system work?
Of course the argument for this is "why are iOS users more inclined to purchase games and IAPs compared to Android users?". I'm legitimately curious about this, but my first guess is these two factors:

A. iOS is generally more expensive and thus users are more likely to have disposable income

B. The IAP system means the only barrier to purchasing stuff on a completely new app is performing touch/face ID
I think you're mistaking "giving them carte blanche" for "highlighting one mistake they make in a long post containing a lot more information, context and nuance without acknowledging any of that in the slightest, and use that as if you caught them red-handed in a gotcha! that breaks down their entire argument".

I guess that's a specific version of the "cherry-picking data" fallacy.
That's really cool. It sounds like your commitment to learning Emacs mirrored my commitment to LaTeX - didn't know it, but was highly motivated to learn. I love that.
Ah, those are just pesky facts. It's so much more fun to play partisan geek. Don't spoil the fun.
You know, sometimes simple is nice.

I used Bootstrap Icons the other day in a simple Vanilla Javascript app w/ Bootstrap (and jQuery-free).

Loved the simplicity and speed of being able to embed the SVG directly:
https://icons.getbootstrap.com/icons/alarm-fill/

This was quite different from my normal avenue of trying to get FontAwesome completely installed, imported, and referenced in a React app:
https://github.com/FortAwesome/react-fontawesome#get-started
They are not acting rational in these kind of discussions.

Most Apple users are deeply locked into the ecosystem. I guess it is sunk cost fallacy, now even though the cracks are clearly showing they don't want to see Apple fail in any way. You'll see people rationalize anything Apple does without blinking.

And it makes sense too. If I use a mac, iphone, apple watch, airpods, have all my photos on iCloud etc I would not want Apple to face any hurdles.
Please don't call names or post unsubstantive comments to HN.
From your article.

Competing browsers saw their traffic increase,[16] suggesting that these smaller competing developers were gaining users. However, long-term trends show browsers such as Opera and Firefox losing market share in Europe, calling into question the usefulness of the browser choice screen.
There’s not much to say on this subject anymore.

We desperately need a mobile general purpose computing platform that doesn’t make side loading so onerous. Apple and Google are going to continue pretending they aren’t selling general purpose computers and they may well convince the regulators.

Consumers need to be able to choose an operating system that gives users full control. I don’t want to be confined to a desktop or a laptop.
Carrier freezout actually makes this non-workable -- there's a limit to how cold you can make CMOS devices before they stop functioning. To say nothing of the specific heat of liquid helium, which is miniscule compared to LN2
> If Apple bends it will be to settle and cut a special deal with Epic.

But then who isn't going to want to take their place and get their own "special deal"?
There are services who scan/forward mail for you. It's not cheap but convenient compared to a physical po box.
Oh they’re not, for sure.

But let’s not pretend that crypto is providing any more positive benefit to society than the average ad algorithm or mobile game.
Hi dang, can I ask why did you delete my post?
> Sometimes though it just protects the worker who’s trying but their kid or SO got incapacitated or something equally horrible is happening to them and the last thing they need is fired.

OK, but private businesses in the US are not public jobs programs, and shouldn't have any obligation to keep paying unproductive employees.

That puts a financial strain on the organization, and can be toxic to a healthy work environment.

(For the record, I'm not railing against people in that position - I'm railing against people perfectly capable of working productively, but choose not to because there is no consequence. It would be analogous to government jobs where the worst that happens is you're transferred to a different department and become their problem instead.)
It depends on the time scale you are looking at 4-8 years isn’t a lot, and also there are plenty of other changes that could happen in the prescription drug market and there have been many pushes for that which don’t require a full on single payer system.