skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I'm tired of there being reasons for the same hate Facebook, Zoom and Google narratives every single day.

> What about Luxottica? It has over 80% market share on eyewear brands.

I would assume optometrists and opthamologists argue about that on their own forums rather than this tech forum filled with people mostly from tech.
Maybe people should just pay for it?

Oh no. How could they make us pay for the software services. Imo, this mentality needs to go. People spend $$$ in cafe, buy expensive branded clothes, transportation, hanging out with their friends, outside food, and so on. All of those are not necessary but they pay for it. They should pay for the digital services they spend most of their time on now a days. What's different?
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Paypal? Absolutely.

Luxottica, Pearson, Aetna - no idea. Perhaps they're having similar discussions on eywear community messageboards and healthcare messageboards where they know about such things?

Or perhaps you can write a sensible, well-reasoned article using evidence on how these companies are similar to Facebook, Google or some other tech behmoth and what the appropriate remedies are or aren't? Just a thought.
> Let’s force Google to be like every other company in needing to constantly extract money from every project quarter by quarter.

I think you're actually making the argument for breaking up Google. Their search monopoly is so powerful and so profitable, that they can afford to just throw money away on hundreds of terrible side projects.
>"The world needs Google Cloud to be viable?" That's an argument AGAINST breaking up Google

I’m not strongly opinionated either way, but google cloud being connected to the main advertising company is the one of the two major reasons the European public sector isn’t using it. Terrible support is the other major reason.

Maybe google doesn’t want the public sector billions, but something like firebase is actually a better fit for us in a lot of cases than what AWS or Azure has to offer, but we’ll never use it because google won’t guarantee our data stays in Europe or that only European citizens access it like AWS currently does. Likewise, we would never chose to use g-suite over office365, but there you can add a 3rd major reason in that it hasn’t really been updated for 10 years and is now horribly behind office365.

This is my opinion, but I don’t think the services google actually sell for money rather than privacy benefit a whole lot from being a minor part of a major advertising company.
> The problem is when a company or two dominates a single market.

It would also be bad if one company dominated multiple markets. (just a nit pick on your phrasing)
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That doesn't tell us how profitable it is. It might very well be spending more on infrastructure and networking than it gets in revenue. For comparison, Netflix's cost of revenue was 3.6 billion dollars last quarter.
It actually is not. If you consider taxes pay for the shipping ( and not subsidies from China).

It's ridiculous
Totally agree. When you explain your idea, you "live" in it, giving you a false sense as if future is already here and you achieved what you want. You get your portion of positive emotions without doing any work, so every next idea you do more talking and less walking.

Don't do it, keep it to yourself until there is something tangible to show.
I would say it always should be a good plan to defer to expert rationale but not opinion. I expect my experts to explain the benefits and drawbacks of following best practices not just assert that something is a best practice. When somebody follows my advice without asking why they should, I start to worry they aren't thinking critically and realize that now all the onus is on me to understand whether the shoe actually fits.
Large market share just doesn't mean much unless the market has non-trivial barriers to entry that make competition infeasible. And that's certainly the case wrt. the 'platform'-like businesses of Google and other large tech firms. They should simply be required to be interoperable with other players in the market, and a break-up is definitely one way of pursuing this.
I'd say that Apple is currently at an all-time low as far as the happiness within the union of the development and user communities for audio software on macOS.

These sort of communities (and I include HN in that list) are always a giant whinge-fest. I'd take zero notice of that and instead look at some figures you can trust.

Despite all the complaining I've heard here over the last few years Apple's share of the PC market hasn't moved.
That's revenue, not profit.
That's revenue, not profits
Well, I'm glad to report that I'm working on a federated link aggregator project that tries to keep the good parts of old reddit. A test instance can be found at https://littr.me
I agree with the general premise of this content, but as a non-American I'm curious to know if financials of a public company is not clear, shouldn't it be addressed with the securities exchange(SEC)/companies regulator (or) shouldn't they themselves investigate and penalise obscurity?
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zsh has `gi` command which you can do like this

gi macos node > .gitignore
You really should try to travel and visit places out of your comfort zone to see how other people live, before dismissing their hardships.
"That being said, Google gets primary access to your personal data and habits, and then also gets to sell advertising based on that data."
Then lets find legislation that enforces privacy, but still allows them to work with advertisers. The platform is here, but needs adjustment.
>You miss so much of Japan w/o knowing Japanese.

For what it's worth, I've been to Japan twice now for a total of one month of time, don't know any Japanese beyond your typical easy phrases/words, and got by fine with Google Translate. I also was able to make several friends, many of whom can't really speak much English (probably on the same level as my incredibly basic phrase/wordset of Japanese). Not only that, but once I made those friends they took me to places/restaurants that tourists wouldn't know of/go to and only locals would.

Of course on the other hand there were some areas where I would be by myself and it was clear that unless I could speak Japanese I wouldn't really be welcome- and that's alright too.

But my main point is that it is certainly possible to not know Japanese and still see quite a lot of Japan; I suppose it just takes some effort and outgoingness to try communicating with the locals.
My personal take is that there is still a massive global problem with racism and more generally prejudice that reinforces social inequality. I actually think it is not just a problem for black people (although this is a primary example, and I do not mean to say that all prejudicial treatment is equivalent) but for many different groups. For example, my fairly poorly informed understanding is that in some large segments of Chinese population racism against all other groups is very popular. And also for example Han versus non-Han, although that may be more of an ethnic distinction, which to me is a flavor of the same.

Or for example there seems to be a very strong stereotype for Americans as being lazy, unintelligent, and gun-toting. So I guess these are not all the same concept, but different types of prejudice.

It feels like a fairly monumental task to reduce prejudice and the inequalities that it reinforces.
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Perl as the primary language

HTML/CSS for front-end

JavaScript for optional front-end enhancements

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Except, they don't. People aren't willing to pay much for non-physical goods anymore.
> As an owner of an iMac Pro (the 10c/20t CPU variant) I have to tell you that you are slightly mistaken -- the Xeon-2150B is a pretty strong CPU even compared to the bursty high-end desktop i9 CPUs.

I do not think I am mistaken. I haven't yet encountered a Xeon that can beat the desktop i9 in single-core performance. Looking at geekbench scores (https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks), my iMac is 10.5% faster in single-core than your iMac Pro, and your iMac Pro is about 15% faster in multi-core. For development work, I will take single-core performance any day.
What monopoly? There is a monopoly today; it's called Steam. It has an immense userbase and plenty of user loyalty; it's not going anywhere. If Epic succeeds, there will be two major stores rather than one.
I doubt this. Most people here employ ad blocking of some form, use Firefox and religiously de-google. At least this particular thread is probably 90% of those people.
People reflexively upvote any articles that contain Big Tech and something negative. I'm sure most people who upvoted this didn't even read it.
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> Here's the rub: I strongly suspect that YouTube is not profitable, or is just barely profitable, such that it would be difficult to run as a separate company from the rest of Google...
> Breaking apart Google would substantially risk those businesses.

Isn't that kind of the point of "break up google" though?

That "they" (big tech) destroy any other businesses in a similar space (video in this case) that isn't similarly an ads or social-media giant? Or that tech "eats the world" in ways that aren't always strictly good?
I can't access the article, but don't postal employees get the same (unsustainable) retirement benefits as government employees? Of course the costs of those benefits are ballooning. The retirement age is far earlier than life expectancy; it's simple math. What alternative is proposed that would make it past a union sitting on 120B in benefit commitments already?
Jazz is great. They don't know what they are talking about.
Didn’t feel much substance in this, though to be fair I felt the same wait from his aws farewell (maybe I just don’t relate to his writing style?).

Anyways, I think all the talk about breaking up google/Facebook etc feels performative at best - never seem see any solid reasons Or arguments. Would be nice to see tech people use their clout for actually monopolies, eg intel, ykk group, Tyson, etc.
If there are no free services subsidized by google or other tech corp, then they will have to pay or shut up.
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Yes, at least that long, and about 20 of it for the Web.
Possibly, even probably (though I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have to). But they certainly wouldn't scale up by 16%, not even in sales.

Neither would Walmart or McDonald's.
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Your argument doesn't take into account the absolute market size and influence. No one is churning out propaganda on the other companies you mentioned because those markets are either much smaller or much harder to manipulate than Google's market.

Why would people try to cancel Luxottica? Eyewear touches a much smaller market and doesn't have nearly the same potential to manipulate people as Google does (at least not yet). People will always focus all of their attention on the largest threat.
Nice. Even the old /con/con bug still works :)
-edit- sorry about that, was already mentioned previously :)
Why is ridiculous or even remarkable? Pretty much every 3rd party service that an American-based company uses costs significantly more than an equivalent in China. And most of these costs are far more significant than the cost of postage (e.g. wages and salaries, rents, etc.) unless you're involved in a very low value-add business.
As long as productivity grows faster than population, there's effectively no end to how much population can grow. You might argue that productivity gains will stop at some point, but then you need to provide arguments for that, not take as a given that there is a limit.

People's preferences for family size in a developed world seems to be providing a much more tangible limit to population growth than resources. People simply don't want to have as many children as it takes to substantially grow population when they're rich enough.
This article is so awesome!

I keep telling people who complain to me about slow WiFi speed that it is their device's fault. A lot of mid range Android phones only have 1x1 802.11ac, which is about 433 Mbps PHY at 80 MHz channel.

Some more expensive Android phones and all iPhones support 2x2 MIMO which gets you up to 867 Mbps PHY at 80 MHz channel.

Some phones have a buggy implementation of VHT80 client, so on 80MHz the PHY rate drops to <100 Mbps, so in those cases I recommend 802.11n 40MHz on 5GHz band.

The AP/Router/Modem combo that all the ISPs give in my country is very much capable of fast WiFi. It has 4x4 MIMO at 802.11ac with 80MHz + 2x2 MIMO at 802.11n up to 40 MHz (I always tell people to avoid 40 MHz on 2.4GHz band!).

On a good phone, this gets you around 600 Mbps with 867 Mbps PHY, on a cheaper device, between 250 and 290 Mbps on 433 Mbps PHY. Devices with 4x4 can get 1.7Gbps PHY, but I do not have any.

This does not stop people from complaining about the free modem they get, demand it is put into bridge mode, buy an ASUS router for >400€, and get the same result. Some (smartly) return the router they bought right away, and request the ISP put the device back into routing mode, but some keep the useless and expensive trophy of stupidity...
Ok, if you don't want to break them up, then can we at-least consider anti-trust charges?

US anti-trust litigation has degraded to the point of non-existence. Microsoft faced anti-trust charges in 1998 that will puzzle most youngsters in HN today - because both Google and Apple do far-far worse. Destroying all competition via control of the market has become normalised US corporate behaviour. Why has this been allowed to occur ?

For all its faults, the EU appears to notice this when the US doesn't.
> They went into it knowing that their shares' votes would be useless.

I don't disagree with that at all, and I would see the current holders compensated for their shares. What I _am_ saying is I don't think society is benefitting from this structure.

> the shareholders have validated their control every day since Google went public

What? No, that's not how that works. The market has decided solely on the current price for Google shares. There's no nuance about what the market thinks about Page and Brin other than they think that the stock is currently accurately price, no more and no less.
> Like it or not, while there's plenty of Software Engineering talent in this country, but all of them are gunning for Silicon Valley salaries

That just means that nobody is willing to fill those positions for the salary offered. The obvious answer in any market system is to increase the salary, and you will get people to fill those positions.
> "The world needs Google Cloud to be viable?" That's an argument AGAINST breaking up Google.

The "argument" appears to be that if GCP were a separate company, instead of just a bunch of products inside Google, it's not going to get randomly axed like Google Reader was.

The article also goes on to undermine its own argument by noting that a) GCP is now important enough to be broken out in the financials and b) GCP serves a very different class of enterprise customers.
How would breaking it up affect that in the slightest? Also being an unpaid user doesn’t mean your data you generate is valueless.
You paid. You were just asleep and didn't notice.

Google, facebook etc. They don't pay tax. Do you? What do you get for your tax? What do they get from tax revenue to which they don't contribute their share?

The kicker is going to be when you think "What if I didn't want to use any google product. And I was willing to pay real money to achieve that. Could I?" Then you realise google still have all your mail and browsing history. Paying. Yep. How? Through the nose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality
Thanks! :)

Oh, nice, I bookmarked Timeliner recently, but haven't tried yet. Look promising, I expect this to integrate well in Promnesia, and vice versa, my helper HPI package to integrate easily in Timeliner.

For Perkeep -- I tried it briefly, but haven't exactly understood the problem they are solving. I was planning to try again and writeup my experience with it to spark a discussion!
Everyone has the option for an ad-sponsored or ad-free YouTube for a monthly fee.

Which is how I've been watching YouTube, ad-free for years.
Same. Tough on china, no regime change... sounds good to me.
> that they can afford to just throw money away on hundreds of terrible side projects

How is that a problem? I'm glad we have companies that can afford to experiment.
I strongly agree. I find it telling that no competitor has ever been successful despite YouTube making every wrong design choice possible.
I pay for Youtube premium, I see no ads, it's amazing...

What is your point here? You want Youtube to be like a cable television company and make money off ads and subscribers?

How does this relate to YouTubes 5BN in revenue?
Keep innovating the same way it's doing now, and break-off the next thing that reaches monopoly status ?
What I took from point 21 (for me the most interesting of all) was the focus – in the context of something long term – on “iterating, prioritizing, discarding, restarting” to the extent that “planning” doesn’t mean what it does in waterfall.
Yes but Fieldings paper describes HTTP. It doesn't invent a new technology, it describes and codifies an architecture which already exist.
I get what you're saying but what if because of this people start to use decentralized alternatives? Open source programs with sufficient support don't take as much money to run and develop as a proprietary service would. Obviously not everything would work but I imagine if we moved social media to something like the fediverse which has already proven sustainable enough it might even be better.
Also with android dead, people would focus on more innovative alternatives like linux mobile or the late windows mobile. The few services for the public that google runs that are objectively good and free is google earth, the google search engine (to an extent), and maybe youtube.
I like how they innovate but as it is if you tried to cut out google entirely from your life your quality of life would drop substantially to the point where it might affect your job and well being. That is the main problem with google and that's why people think it needs to be broken up.
> Using Spacemacs or Doom doesn't liberate you from learning Lisp and Emacs internals.

Yes it does, for me anyways, for the most part. While I definitely plan to dive deeper, I'm using plenty of Emacs stuff via Spacemacs, and I've customized plenty of stuff by copy/pasting incomprehensible elisp snippets.
> I’m not strongly opinionated either way, but google cloud being connected to the main advertising company is the one of the two major reasons the European public sector isn’t using it.

Please cite. And is M$ not also advertising[1]? If this ridiculous argument can get people to stop using M$ azure crapfest it might be just the boon I needed.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Advertising
How usual is it sending hand written letters in 2020? Even in poor countries, I believe people sending hand written letters across the world is very uncommon.

If you believe it's still neccessary to keep sending letters across the world a neccessity, well, then we could only allow thin letters that can not hold anything else than a written letter - no items, what so ever.
"Now smart scientists, if they want to work in person with the widest supply of good colleagues, will go to other wealthy countries."

Except there are no such places for the most part.

Europe's economy is stagnant and they are not paying competitively.

China's wages don't remotely compare, it only makes sense in the context of a National who might value their lives their due to family, history, nationality etc. etc..

Germany was rubble in 1945.

America still leads most industries.

There is an easier, less theoretical issue here, and that is the H1B program was a hustle. Infosys and a few others use it to 'inshore' IT talent and that's it. Not R&D by the way.

"It’s hard to see this as anything good for the world."

Actually it's crystal clear: those jobs stay in India where they pay local taxes where they are desperately needed and many more boats are lifted.
Chrome actually keeps it in the database. However it only works within a single browser and breaks as soon as you're leaving for a native app, note in your todo list, etc. So I feel like correlating timestamps is the way to go here, simple enough and agnostic of specific implementations.
No court in the US is going to break up Google because Tim Bray thinks “The world needs Google Cloud to be viable” and “YouTube is too important to leave hidden inside an opaque conglomerate“. They May be broken!up, but not for these ludicrous reasons.

Read a little about anti-trust first. Matt Stoller has an excellent, approachable email newsletter called BIG about monopolies.
Ahh shoot, I must've misspelled it when I did a search. You are quite correct! One of the six reasons was in fact that the "maps business has a built-in monopolization risk," which is still a crummy argument, but it IS about monopolies.