Okay, I am glad you are willing to discuss in good faith. Thank you for elaborating your point of view.

I will admit that I have an emotional bond with China, by virtue of being born there. If you define nationalist as anyone who feels as having a personal stake at the reputation of a country, then I guess I am. I wish for the country to develop, to be prosperous, to be recognized as an equal (more on this later) and to be treated fairly.

I do not personally agree with that definition, because I see a nationalist as someone who accepts their country unquestionably, and someone who thinks their country is better than others. I conform to neither of those properties. China does have many problems, it’s lagging behind the west in many aspects. If you want me to list some (besides the obvious freedom of speech things): support for disabled people is not very good, hygiene of public toilets is poor, social safety net is not as good as e.g. Netherlands, the tendency of local governments to cover up bad news thanks to structural problems with incentives. I also don’t think China is better than others, I merely wish for it to be able to stand as an equal (in value, not in likeness) among western countries. Respect other countries, and be respected in return.

In this sense, you can also say I am a Dutch nationalist. Having lived in the Netherlands for longer than in China, I have absorbed many western ideas and ideals, some of which I think China should embrace better. I also wish for the Dutch to be well, and despite the high taxes and rigid rules here I am pretty glad at how well-managed the country is.

You suspect that CCP is deliberately instilling nationalism in order to make Chinese people unwilling to accept criticism against CCP. Here are my thoughts:

- For myself, it is not true. I lived in China until early primary school. I did learn a vague sense of being proud of being Chinese, but that isn’t very different from how e.g. Americans learn to be proud of their country. I didn’t learn much history yet, nor how the state works or how other foreign countries worked. Everything after age 8 was Dutch education. But I have always felt a disconnect between what here in the west I am told about China, vs my own experience and what family tell me. Only recently have I started to do my own research to learn where this disconnect comes from, and how Chinese history was like.

- This presupposes that the CCP can be neatly separated from the mainland people. And that if we cannot, then criticism is impossible. I agree with neither: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124883

- The more I learn about Chinese history, the more I think you’ve got it backwards. The CCP derives legitimacy from preexisting nationalism. It was already there before the PRC founding, the CCP didn’t create it. The CCP top leadership are actually moderates: they try to suppress nationalism rather than making it bigger. For example: there is a saying that if the mainland Chinese were allowed to vote, they would’ve already launched an invasion against Taiwan already; while the CCP is happy with the status quo without openly saying it.

- I don’t know how much it applies to HN, but in the wider world, I see the statement ‘I am against CCP, not Chinese people’ being used merely as lip service. For example: Trump invoking the Hong Kong Freedom bill, and many people cheering on it, but the only thing the bill does is hurting HK economy and thus the livelihood of ordinary Hong Kong citizen. I suspect many people are sincere about the abstract idea of that statement, but they haven’t given any thought about what it means in more practical, realistic terms. And at the same time, many other people are not being sincere at all, and merely use the statement as a cover for racism.

- I do think criticism against CCP is okay, but I am not seeing a lot of fair criticism. I see a lot of double standards, where CCP is criticized for something while other parties are not. I see a lot of criticism that’s based on either false info, or info with dubious evidence. Such dubious evidence is often accepted without question, even though when it comes to other countries people would’ve probably done a better job scrutinizing.

Imagine that everybody thinks Netherlands is a country of drug addicts and prostitutes, and that that is what people talk about all the time. I wouldn’t be happy about that either.

- A lot of criticism isn’t per se wrong, but does assume that western values are universally correct. The more I learn about history, the more I cast doubt on this. Western values arose under very specific circumstances. Mainland China has a very different history, so the values there are different. The insistence on criticizing the CCP from the viewpoint of western values, comes over to me as imposing one’s values on others. Some mainland Chinese values arose specifically because of western imperialism, so this imposition even comes over as hypocritical or tone-deaf at times.

- So much emphasis on criticism, but I think what we need is more emphasis on solutions. I mean: many problems in China aren't going to be solved by overthrowing the CCP (if that is at all possible). This isn't as simple as kicking out the bad guys and things will be better. For better or worse, and for all its faults, the CCP is still the only government that truly advances mainland Chinese people's interests; no other government will do it for them, and any post-CCP government will not necessarily be better than CCP. Rather than focusing on criticism, I think we need to focus on mutual understanding and finding ways to cooperate. The CCP will not feel inclined to accept western values as long as they believe that they are being treated as inferior instead of as equals, and that those values are a thinly veiled excuse for overthrowing them and for ignoring the west's own problems.

I hope this clears things up. If you have more questions or thoughts, I would be happy to engage.