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What would an appropriate level of ownership be for that kind of risk?

Working without a salary for a year implies founder level risk. Right now, they only have an idea, and no code? I'd expect as much of an equity stake as the other founder that's working without a salary, 30%.

Furthermore, if all the founders are willing to give me for my full time work for an entire year was 6%, I'd run far, far away.
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"that which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof"

and why give weight to the ramblings of the religious but not to all schizophrenics?

shouldn't we give both views equal respect without calling to reason?

edit: referring to the "difficult to tell the difference between real and unreal experiences/delusions/hallucinations" symptoms when i said schizophrenics
Wow, can't go wrong for that price. Bonus, as it doesn't need a power supply, it uses the USB's.

They accept international orders so I've ordered one with free shipping to Australia.
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I would never wish what happened to the people at HBGary on anyone (Dumping all their private emails? Deleting all their data?), but the more that comes out the harder it is to sympathize with them.

How do you do this crap and live with yourself after?
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One of those things that attracts me to the hacker 'ethos', so-to-speak, is seeing people reaching into disparate and esoteric depths to stitch together seemingly outlandish but uniquely powerful solutions.

I've been just as guilty of being intellectually self-righteous as anyone, but these days I see elitism of any status-quo as completely counter-productive when it comes to inspiring creativity and diversity. That said, it's hard not to slip back into it, heh.

I really enjoyed the article, and while I haven't been a Christian for some time, I'd be totally stoked to meet Larry some day. He sounds like a stand up guy.

Maybe I should start wearing a skirt.
No. It is a corporate turf war. Like MS, the engineering departments have the upper hand and prefers control to continue in engineering hands. They'd rather die than let the design manager get promoted.

This is what you get if there is no strong alpha male founder leadership at the top.

Ellison, Gates, Brin, Jobs were there to make sure this doesn't happen. When the founders leave, chaos ensues.
Schizophrenia isn't what you think it is.
I don't mean to offend you but it sounds like you might not be a great programmer, although you still enjoy the idea of making stuff that's useful (even if it's not written well or a particularly challenging thing to do from a CS perspective).
Evidence for the way the world works is all around us. Holding onto faith in creationism and other religion-based myths is holding many people back from understanding what real evidence we have about the world.

If you want to go to the extreme of arguing that using evidence as a justification for believing (or not believing) in something is an act of faith, then I don't think we can have a reasonable argument about anything.
I'm not trying to be disrespectful. But do you not think forcefully changing the entire title without any warning and removing my editing privilege is a bit of overkill for a single word that YOU found to be offensive? You could have simply asked me to edit it, and I would have changed the title in a fashion that did not use the word "killer" and still reflected the relevant Anybot connection. Currently if you do a search for "anybot" in Google, the first link is a story about this DIY bot with a picture of Johnny Lee.
First you say "Apple would still have released the iphone" and then "...they [patents] do allow entrenched interests protect their market from upstarts." You seem to be contradicting yourself.

When Apple released the iPhone, they were the upstart in the mobile phone segment. The patents are what allowed/allows Apple to protect themselves from the 'entrenched interests' of the market. That is what good the patents provide.
If a schizophrenic developed an elegant solution for highly efficient, commercially viable solar-panels, I'd probably listen intently to his views on semiconductors, while politely opting out of the dissertation on talking toast.
but it is relevant in the scientific community..

if you are religious/spiritual, then you have to believe some phenomena are inexplicable, as they are performed/commanded by some entity we cannot comprehend

it just doesn't usually encourage the kind of inquisitive/iconoclastic/skeptical attitude that scientists need

and if you are doing research, it could also result in confirmation bias

why do you think it is not relevant? you could explain that instead of condescendingly accusing the OP of being condescending.
Sorry about the belated reply, but what I meant to say that something tangible will always have a higher value than anything that is intangible. So while the business cards are really a great idea, it's gonna be a bitch to get people to use them. People prefer to have the cards in their hands, each one representing something individual, while E on the other hand represents the combination of all separate information onto one thing. Also, because business cards are physical, people other than those intended are able to find them and create opportunities. Finally, business cards are like the magic rabbit in my black hat of a wallet. I always seem to be able to pull one out that I need at random. It's less likely that I will find the business card of somebody I'm not looking for, if I'm not looking for a business card in the first place. Business cards help me by making sure I have contacts with whomever I want, whether or not I look for them. The only way I can think of this being implemented is if there is a card randomizer that pops up with a random card each time I look at the collection. I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense and also I hope that this will be read, as I believe it should be taken into consideration.
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> They may have agreed to have MS developers work very closely with Nokia for customizations. Hard to say without knowing all the details

if thats true

> In an ironic way Microsoft was actually offering more flexibility and openness of development

then yes that would be the case.

personally i doubt that microsoft gave up any significant control of win mobile and there has been little evidence to suggest it has. that said microsoft would not want nokia going on about how they get to do what they want with ms win mobile as that would only discourage investment in the platform by Samsung/HTC/LG who ms still need as it will be a good 18~24 months before nokia is shipping significant volumes.
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I don't mean to be disrespectful to Mr. Wall. Of course I admire his brilliant creations. I made my statement in the context where those of us that rely on reason and evidence are under attack in popular culture. And people tout lists of brilliant scientists who were also Christians, as though it were proof that belief in Christianity is a reasonable philosophy.

I don't begrudge anyone their own personal beliefs. But say, perhaps, Larry had mentioned that he drew his inspiration from a 5" fairy who was constantly sitting on his shoulder. Would it not give you some pause, and amazment that an otherwise articulate and intelligent man, would have such a strange belief. However interesting or charming that may be, that's how I feel when I hear about taking enduring Christian beliefs well into adulthood.
The asymptotic optimality of samplesort is in the sense that it takes (1 + o(1)) N log N / log 2 comparisons, i.e., you can't beat it by any constant factor.

Bentley's comments from that email don't make any sense to me. I can't understand what he was thinking, unless he's just unusually prone to flattering other people's work (I don't know Bentley personally, but I've met other people who do this, much to my irritation).
> "that which can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof"

Exactly! And vice versa!

Who said anything about "giving weight" to "ramblings"? You are fixated on everything being about truth and facts and who's right, but that's not what I'm talking about.

Maybe you don't want anything bigger than observable facts and theories based thereupon in your life, but I hope when your parents say they love you you don't tell yourself that it's simply endorphins firing in their brains.
This is only thinly related, since I'm pretty sure Larry Wall isn't a deist, but it's always interesting to note that a number of the people involved in the United States inception didn't believe in Christianity in the way a lot of Christians think they do. For instance, Thomas Jefferson's edit of the bible (The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

a copy of the text:
http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/JefJesu.html
What kind of "performance problems" are we talking about here? Taking 2 minutes to write to a database because of some poorly indexed tables? Or trying to serve millions of requests in under 100ms each by intelligently leveraging a caching layer?

Maybe these days anyone can just take memcache and use it off the shelf. But the class of solution that memcache represents (or Cassandra, Thrift, node.js or XYZ...) is one that will not typically occur to a non-CS person. There's no basis for even understanding it.

As someone involved in hiring, I look for people who possess the capability to engineer solutions to my problems from scratch, starting with nothing but a solid basis in CS (even if they won't be doing that every day). I don't want just another tube connector (someone whose experience is primarily in leveraging APIs to write trivial but tedious code).
if you are religious/spiritual, then you have to believe some phenomena are inexplicable

Do I? Because, if so, I'm doing it wrong.
I've observed that this can be an issue when you get too many people out of touch with software involved in a company.
Yes giving them feedback can be a good start. The problem is that not sometimes I'm not a user of their service... But I'll keep trying
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I've posted mine before but in stories that didn't get many views. Putting up a build log has been on my todo list forever...

Mine is based on the Asterisk open source pbx and a Grandstream video phone for the real-time 2 way video. It is controlled via DTMF and doesn't require a computer to operate, just a phone. Full telepresence if your phone is a SIP phone that does video.

Also cost about $500 to build but probably took me much longer as I built my own drive system and motor controllers.

Here's a video of my homebuilt telepresence bot in action : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMZkd8YMgzw

For what its worth, I don't consider hacks like these "Anybots killers", more like homage to heroes of mine. I'm a big fan of TB and the Anybots team and can't wait to see what they come up with next.
Keep in mind that the Internet is in English and English is quickly becoming the World's main language.

Then, think about the millions of tourists who come to Egypt every year.

The educated speak English; the un-educated can say English phrases. They both watch American movies.

So, by "virtually everyone speaks it", I mean that virtually anybody can somewhat hold a conversation.
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Larry Wall said in the interview that he considers evolution to be fact.

And yes, the idea of using evidence as justification is itself an act of faith. This is not that extreme a position - take a look at The Structure of Scientific Revolutions for evidence (ironic, isn't it?) of that. At some point, you have to take some basic principles as given. Otherwise, you end up with circular reasoning.

The decision to slice the world into atheist vs. religious is itself a rather arbitrary one, just like how it's weird (when you think about it) that skin color has become the source of 500 years of hate, while nobody blinks twice (ha, ha) about someone's eye color. Why not slice the world into open-minded vs. close-minded people? There are open-minded theists (Wall is one of them) and close-minded atheists, just like there are close-minded theists and open-minded atheists.
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From the front they look like every other iPhone knock off that essentially every OEM is making, right down to the speaker port. The back is oddly shaped, seemingly to the form of the internal components. What exactly is slick about those?

(I'm honestly asking, as this doesn't seem anywhere near the caliber of an iPhone, which is likely in the same price range.)
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Sorry. I didn't mean to be condescending. I meant to emphasize that I am puzzled to see people straddling high logical faculties, while choosing to disregard those abilities when it comes to some of their beliefs.
I can't agree with this conclusion. Good engineers know amazing UX is part of the spec. I can't see engineers actively fighting against design, and if they do, there's larger issues at play.
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Steve Jobs reportedly drew inspiration from LSD while founding Apple Computer. Does that make Apple's accomplishments any less important?

The "greatness" of an invention isn't defined by the invention itself or even the inventor's state of mind, it's defined by how people react to it. That's what Wall meant when he talked about "designing a culture". Truly great inventions become that way because they draw people in; they're inclusive, and let people achieve all sorts of things that the original inventor may never have dreamed of.
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"Why was the universe created?"

Do you think science will ever answer this question? The universe as a whole is on some level inexplicable, unless we somehow manage to transcend our existence in it...

Saying that a scientist's belief in God causes confirmation bias in his research results is more ad hominem and less productive criticism. Einstein believed in God, and in fact wrote extensively about the relationship he felt between God and his theories of the universe. Likewise many scientists lead productive careers without an iota of their religion (or family, or culture, or whatever have you) impacting the rigor of their work.
Compaq, Dell, HP... Oh wait...wrong partner list.
perfect culture fit with Microsoft then
Anon wouldn't have targeted HBGary were it not for Aaron Barr's bragging that he had identified so-called "leaders and founders" and would be going public with that info, as well as giving it to LE. This is simply a matter of kicking the hornet's nest and suffering the consequences. Anonymous isn't highly skilled by any definition, but it's stupid to intentionally goad them into taking action against you. Especially given hbg fed's terrible security practices.
Whoa... what's with the title edit? That's a far cry from "[refusing] to upvote". This is borderline admin abuse.

</rant>

People on HN are likely to have heard of the Anybot due to its connection to YC (one of AB's founders being a YC partner). Referencing it in the title is perfectly relevant, since many on HN can relate to the term "Anybot" but few can relate to "video chat robot" (which, incidentally, sounds like some sort of automated chatroulette client).

</reason>

[edit it's -> its]
Dup: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2206813
I think if you read the article, you have to come to the conclusion that Wall is a diest.

"Wall is also a serious evangelical Christian, a member (and webmaster) of the New Life Church's Cupertino Church of the Nazarene."

as well as some of his direct quotes in the interview.
Huh?

Is this thread full of Nokia/Microsoft PR people? Seriously. How does this not look like every other modern Android, WP7, iPhone rip off?

- Black minimalist screen ✓
- Horizontal speaker port ✓
- Buttons on the bottom ✓
- Cheap plastic case ✓

I don't think this phone could look more generic. Is this the state of the art in phone design outside of Cupertino? Are people's expectations really this low?

I really don't get the appeal of this device from a hardware perspective. The software may be a different story, but the hardware looks is pretty boring.
Android may be open source but realistically how far can anyone diverge while maintaing compatibility, consistency, and the ability to push updates out in a timely fashion?

Maybe further than their competitors if they could have leveraged their Meego and general engineering expertise... but naturally we'll never know now.
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But they're doing it as an afterthought. They're committed to Android, and are supporting wp7 to cover their bases. Nokia's going all in, which would position them at the top of the WP7 hierarchy. If wp7 is a hit, Nokia rides the wave back to relevance, If not, well, they tried.
My words are carefully chosen and you're not really paying attention.

> Holding onto faith in creationism and other religion-based myths is holding many people back from understanding what real evidence we have about the world.

When did I say that all religion was good or that faith never caused any harm? The thesis I was arguing against was that someone who has faith or mentions god is suddenly less capable of rationality.

> If you want to go to the extreme of arguing that using evidence as a justification for believing (or not believing) in something is an act of faith

No this is not what I said. To paraphrase myself: There are ideas and concepts that go beyond physical reality, for which there is neither evidence for or against. People choose to believe one way or another for personal reasons, neither one is more rational. It makes a lot of self-proclaimed rationalist atheists wriggle and squirm, but if you truly believe that you can only believe things based on evidence, then you can not believe God does or doesn't exist, because God is a concept which is greater than our physical powers of observation.

Even if your try to invoke Occam's Razor, it all comes down to definitions, which of course is tough to pin down when it comes to something like God. You can define God literally as a bearded man in a throne and then it seems unlikely. You can define God as just one thing, anything, which is above our cognitive capacity, and then it seems likely.

And maybe you think I'm just playing games here, but I'm not. People are important. People's inspiration is important. Being able to say "I think there is a purpose to the universe" is an important thought to some people. Those people might even do great things that you admire (like, say, invent Perl). To come around and just flip the loony bit on because someone mentions the G word is not quite so cooly rational as said individual would like to believe.

I'm not here arguing for religion, I'm arguing for the fair judgement of an individual's true quality.
He was my hero back when I was in grad school.

I could never figure out how he funded his experimentation. I had to beg for 50' ethernet cables (unsuccessfully, I might add). A set of wiimotes would have been completely out of the question. Maybe they got better stipends at CMU and he bought his gear on his own dime.
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Heh. Back in the hiring frenzy of 1988, I had 18 interviews in one day (and this on a secret from-the-east-coast-and-back trip, one weekend and one day off). Eighteen. Separate. Interviews. Looks like Apple (still love 'em) is slowing down.
His statements about having to integrate contradictions in his thinking are very interesting. I wouldn't have the patience for it. Why not just discard the single belief (held only on faith), and get rid of the contradictions in one fell swoop?

I can only believe that those positions hold such a cherished part of his personally identity, that he is unable, or unwilling to do it.
Somebody call Anybots. There's a new resume for them to review.
I admit guilty of using the phrase "Anybot killer" in the title as link bait. I did it to catch attention. I did not mean any disrespect to Trevor or the Anybot team. As some one who is also interested in robotics, I'm actually a great big fan as well. I would love to know what their thoughts are of this and the seemingly emerging trend that it is getting easier and easier to DIY robots out of commodity components that can almost rival their commercial counterpart's functionalities at 1/30th the cost.
My startup is made up of a 26, 28 and 63 year old and we are going to apply to YC Summer 2011.

The 63 year old is my father. He's pretty tech savvy and understands our target market very very well. On top of that he founded a company in the early 90s back when founding a company on someone else's dime was a much more challenging endeavor because of the amount of cash involved.