That "official government" as you called it IS the "UK and US phantoms". They are not somalis, except for a few token figureheads. They are invaders from nearby countries, who have long coveted the land, funded and trained by the US and the UK.

It is quite ironic that you would use these acts of aggression as an argument that the country is in a civil war. But simply by calling them the "official" government you have advocated the imposition of slavery on an entire nation at the hands of thugs.

I find it quite disheartening to hear americans repeat propaganda as fact, and use it in argument when they have no actual knowledge of the country, as I have.

So, no, there is no productive debate when you can essentially make shit up based on the impressions you have from propaganda, or regurgitate propaganda.

America is a curious place. The neocons hate somalis on the principle that they are mostly muslim and thus must be evil. The liberals hate them because they are free and well armed. Trying to clear up misconceptions is like trying to argue with a citizen of the USSR who believed everything pravda said. You can always quote pravda.

For instance, you assert that the tolls I mentioned in somalia were not collected by the people who built and maintained the roads. This is a flat out lie, which I now understand you simply made up because it fits your image of the country.

Further, you assert there are "armed opportunists" who are collecting the tolls, this is also a lie, and absurd to anyone who knows anything about somalia. Only in america are highway travellers disarmed. In somalia such bandits would not live long.

Oh, and in america there are "armed opportunists" who take "tolls" in the form of "traffic violations" without much regard for whether they were actually committed or not. They know that it is nearly impossible to get a hearing on such a low level offense and certainly will cost more than simply paying the fine. Therefore, for many if not most americans there is no justice system at all.

That's bad enough, but they also are in the habit of stealing any significant quantities of cash or valuable property they find in the cars they stop. They are able to do this under what's called "asset forfieture" where they merely need a pretext-- an unsupported assertion that the property was used in a crime-- to steal it. This money does not go to road maintenance, but to the personal enrichment of the cops who steal it.

In somalia, if you have been wronged, in order to get compensation, you have to get a ruling from an impartial judge. In america, no judge is needed, the highway robbers just take your property and file some paperwork. I'm not aware of any such property ever being returned, despite most of the victims never being charged, let alone convicted of a crime.

And you think you have "innocent until proven guilty"?

Think that is all just and good? fine, that may be a valid opinion. But every characterization of somalia you make has a parallel in the USA.

Only when you talk about somalia you act as if it is some sort of moral tragedy, but in the USA the same actions are above reproach?

This is the "magic of government" that I believe your schools indoctrinate you into from a young age. If a man were force another man to work for him and take %60 of his wages, you'd call that slavery.... but if the government does it, as the government in the USA does, then somehow, thru the magic of government this is no longer slavery, but taxation.

One thing you can't dispute about somalis. Since we got rid of barre, we have not been enslaved.

Despite your many attempts.