skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Yes they are private, and of course, they are free to choose there own customer.

On the other side, as long 8chan did nothing illegal, they shouldn't shutdown 8chan. If 8chan did something illegal, then for this we have the whole justice system.

If people think 8chan does something bad, but is not illegal .. then people should vote to change the law.

If private company's start to play the police .. it does end in a disaster. Special since today's web is a winner takes it all model. If you felt out of Youtube .. yeah, just bad for you. Apple credit card .. yeah, you can buy just almost everything .. yeah, bright future ..
Nope, see my other replies - it was pure HTML, simple `a` and `img` tags, with locally hosted images. The block rules were based purely on very generic CSS class names, which is a bit silly IMO.
The ACLU had some internal memos released last year basically saying "if you want to carry weapons, we won't represent you" and "if your speech 'harms' marginalized communities, have fun". [0] They're certainly not the universal defenders of civil liberties they used to be.

0: https://reason.com/2018/06/21/aclu-leaked-memo-free-speech/
I get that you're trying to address a larger philosophical question, but what action are you actually suggesting in this particular instance?

Should Cloudflare be forced to host 8chan?

Even more than YouTube/Twitter, this seems like a clear case of business owners deciding that 8chan is too much of a liability to do business with.
Torrenting isn't exactly easy, but it's insanely popular. Slightly complicated access will only stop some old people.

If someone creates an app that connects to some sort of distributed indestructible backend, it's game over, and all you need is an app.
This is assuming it's not still on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and whatever other chans are left.
What do you mean by "internal social justice" stuff?
Nope, I'd understand that. See my other replies - it was pure HTML, simple `a` and `img` tags, with locally hosted images. The block rules were based purely on very generic CSS class names, which is a bit silly IMO.
And yet Twitter is full of example of the 'good guys' calling bfor violence against the 'bad guys'.

You're all bigots and shallow intellectuals who lack integrity and bravery.
Your argument aside, Cloudflare is definitely not a monopoly. There are many, possibly hundreds, of different CDNs that run at scale.
It looks extensive, but perhaps may be overkill for a common regex alternative. Thanks for the tip, though. A standard or semi-standard would have to start simple.
> We now live in a society where it is acceptable for private companies to essentially completely ban individuals from exercising their free speech on the internet.

This is phrased as something to be fearful of here, but I think I'm actually fine with this precedent.

There's nothing to stop people with extreme right-wing ideologies from marshaling the resources required to stand up all the pieces of web infrastructure they find themselves blocked from. If they can't amass those resources, that's ultimately a market decision, no?

And if they were able to stand up that infrastructure, it would indicate a high level of financial support for their agenda, which would be the real thing to be afraid of, in my own opinion.
The rich put money in and they get money out, myself I can only sell my services and when I truly believe in something to see that it is implemented to the best of my abilities.

I will always look after my own health and will always try to maintain control, but each of us has his own context. "No product is worth that" is a general statement that might not apply to everything and everyone.
I stand corrected then. Not a great move from me to correct others on what the downvote button is for without even knowing myself...

Of course, when asking whether or not I think a downvote should be a disagree button, my answer is a resounding "NO!".
Not quite, but you're on to something.
The 11-step guide to running effective meetings
The comment in question said "The price of hens has just dropped by 50%!". That's a bad time to sell.

If you can predict "the price of hens is about to drop" more reliably than the market can, that would make you exceptionally rare. And if you don't already know and have evidence that you can make such predictions reliably, the safe bet is that you can't. Many people try, and fail, and end up buying high and selling low.
> the DE FACTO effect is precisely the same as a single monopoly doing so

The effect is the same, but the legal interpretation of the situation isn't, as long as new players are free to join the game.

You can find lots of examples where two cases of real-world events are the same, but are interpreted differently by law, depending on the context that is purely juridical.

> the moral reasoning behind restraint of government and other monopolies comes into play.

Governments hold the monopoly on violence, thus they are fundamentally different from any other entity.
It's an Imageboard, there are many of them.
8chan gained a lot of traffic because of the Gamergate [1] controversy in late 2014
The site has nothing to-do with 4chan in terms of administration.

I can't say anything about how 8chan is involved in the El Paso shooting, since it's been some time I've been active on 8chan, but the Christchurch mosque shootings was announced on 8chan.
There are many more of such incidents where Imageboards have played a role - e.g. the killing of a kid by Marcel H. in Herne, Germany was posted and documented on 4chan.

So, it's very possible that they're part of it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
Show HN: I wrote an introduction to Random Forest using Tesla stock prices
a lot of people like the single quote, e.g. 'pavel_lishin
Tamas is a very active participant in the Julia ecosystem, so it seems that the switch went pretty well!

Julia 1.0 was released a little over a year ago at JuliaCon 2018. At this year's JuliaCon, there was, imo, an even more positive "vibe" than past years, which were already full of excitement. My guess is that it may be because everyone has been really happy to have a year of not breaking things and building cool new stuff on top of the solid foundation of Julia the Julia 1.x series.
I'm not sure how big I am on even encouraging everyone who gets off the beaten track to carry an EPIRB. However, if I'm being honest, if I did any amount of solo backpacking--especially in less traveled areas--I'd probably consider it these days.
That's why it's weird.

1. You think the speech is not wrong. Then, cloudflare taking of an okay speech is pretty strange.

2. You think the speech is wrong. Then, why are you okay with the speech being on a different CDN? Shouldn't it be banned everywhere?
What about "jews should all be killed because Islam says jews are evil"? How is that different (I mean, besides the obvious) than "murderers should be put to death because the Bible says so"?
Answering as you are referring to my post. The kind of sprints I'm advocating for are few and far in between and shouldn't be taken lightly.
That only works if you're actually going to act on the intelligence gathered from having the discussion centralized. That's something the U.S. is clearly willing to do with, e.g., ISIS. But even what limited programs we had towards combating white nationalist terrorism were canceled by Trump.
It's never just used for the original case either.

Now that 8chan is down why not every other site with a subset of (violent?) racist users?

By doing something about one and not doing anything about another, is Cloudflare not basically giving their ideology a greenlight to exist? This is the type of backwards anti-intellectual thinking that will seep into the decision making.

"Slippery slopes" are a cliche for a reason when talking about this stuff because it never stops with one really good example nor within a very narrow scope. Making this debate all about 8chan misses the larger point because it sets a precedent. There's already tons of people who want way more than 8chan banned from the internet.
It's not a war. The rich are to be feared and pitied, like all humans.
Without being forced by a court to do so.
This should be a wakeup call for anyone still using cloudflare.
when monoplies especially tech monops have more revenue than government and the ability to delete or seriously roadblock government from accessing the internet, there is a smoldering powderkeg in play.
https://www.ibm.com/it-infrastructure/z/education
" It requires people who are able to fully parse the implications of what they are hearing to make sound and rational judgements on the rejection of an idea or the embrace of it."

Just like democracy, right?
You're not wrong, but it's a matter of balancing risk, which is the point of having an allocation towards equities (stocks) and fixed income (bonds).

Recoveries have generally take up to 2-3 years, so if you have that much of your portfolio in cash and GICs, you can weather a downturn without having to touch your equities:

* https://www.myownadvisor.ca/cash-wedge-opening-investment-ta...

One suggestion, which is not popular, is to take a portion of your retirement savings and buy an annuity: enough to cover your day-to-day expenses. This way, regardless of what your invested portfolio is doing, food and shelter (rent/property taxes) are covered. You would consider the annuity as part of your fixed-income ("bond") portion of your portfolio.
They spoke American English and a couple of days after that there were a couple of news reports about the US authorities having come to Romania in order to catch some Internet bad guys, so after the fact I just put 2 and 2 together. And believe it or not an American person usually stands out when outside of the States (and maybe a few other European Western countries), it’a like porn, difficult to put down in words but you know it when you see it.
Personally I'm in agreement with Popper's view that societies should tolerate everything except intolerance. It draws a fine line between what's acceptable speech and what is not. And going by it, things like 8chan should get shut down.

The line of thought you put forward, by contrast, rubs me in a very wrong way. It was used to justify, depending on the period and country, not allowing people to vote on the basis that they didn't have enough revenue, didn't own enough land, couldn't read and write well enough, etc. Allowing to disenfranchise voters on some arbitrary sophistication basis can and, if history is anything to go by, unfortunately will get abused. It breaks down to: who decides what's sophisticated enough?

Popper's tolerance criteria, by contrast, seems clearcut in a you know it when you see it kind of way.
No one has the "right" to have their speech amplified by 3rd parties. However, I don't think Cloudflare is in the business of providing amplification, they are in the business of providing access, which I think is closer to censorship than restricting amplification.

Access means people who WANT this content can get it easily. If you're making it harder for people who voluntarily choose to view 8chan content, you're restricting access.

Amplification means getting content in front of new eyeballs that wouldn't have otherwise seen it. E.g. if Facebook determined that given this user's age, race, zip-code, and favorite TV shows they might be in interested in this racist-meme sharing group that one of their friends joined, and then surfaces that content, that's amplification.
I'm still amazed how they are not under sanctions for wholesale IP theft.

They must have thousands of key decision makers in the West in their pocket.
Nobody in the history of the world has been radicalized because it was easy to access. They were radicalized because something they read resonated with something they experienced. People don't just accidentally turn into mass murderers because they read some pamphlet, a lot has to go wrong.
And for python this one is nice: https://pythex.org/
In many ways, it is actually a very selfish decision on my part as an Engineer -- I'm doing it because i'm thrilled with my job, the product I work on (and launched) and cant stop thinking about some of the Engineering problems I encounter -- because they are so fascinating.

My current employer is shrewd in that they have aligned their interests to mine -- they have moved away most of the BS typical of engineering jobs. They have other people do the parts I don't enjoy doing, and they have given me wide latitude in Product and Product Engineering decisions. They have also given me wide latitude on task selection -- which tasks I take and which get assigned to others on my team (or others on other teams.) This isn't a constant state, it happens on several sprints a year.

On a side note, yes, I exert lots of creative energy in other domains. I'm on the board of a non-profit mentoring org, I'm an advisor to a nature conservancy organization, and I spend a huge amount of time with my family and children.

When I was single, I was part of a community food cooperative and several educational mentoring orgs. Now, the lions share of free time goes to children.

Side note -- if/when my employer turns into Initech and I'm filling out TPS Reports, you can be sure I'll be clocking out at 5pm.
Yea. I find it quite ironic that HN of all places is generally speaking supportive of this.

I do think though that the internet is kind of a different game though. I don't think anything can be banned altogether. People will always find a way.

Ultimately we'll just end up creating new anonymous and distributed services where we can talk freely and corporations (lol) and governments can't dictate what is acceptable.
You get charged a negative account balance penalty
>Microsoft announced on Monday

Actual blog:

https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/2019/08/05/corporate-iot-a-p...
It's also inexpensive to cultivate or hire agent provocateurs to screw it up for the rest. Given the emotion of the situation & conversation, it's a low risk endeavor, as critical thinking is reduced in mass crisis scenarios.
The "hyperirony" excuse is complete bullshit. It's not redeeming when the defense is that they only support, encourage, and enable terrorism because it's a joke. That would make it more despicable, even. Instead we have incredibly racist and hateful people who don't see themselves that way making excuses. They're still shit humans. You don't murder people and say it was irony as your defense.
Yes, it proves that they believe in ethical behavior and recognize that "deplatforming" is very dangerous because you never know when your message will fall out of favor. Only when it provably causes violence should action be taken against speech.
This is a good point that I do not have a solution to. I do see that "I think the internet should be a neutral platform", "I think that the internet should be run by private companies" and "I think that private companies should be free to decide who to do business with" is also a set of incompatible beliefs (that I personally hold). Thankfully, I do not need to have all the answers to point out the issue :)
> I mean, I wouldn't use analogies that were originally created to target people who disagreed with the draft.

> Whether or not the analogy applies now, is irrelevant. It's history makes it a bad analogy.

I appreciate your motivation, but I just can't get behind this line of reasoning. For one thing, most people aren't aware of the history.

For another, almost every good idea has a tainted history. (e.g. the golden rule. "Eh that? That's just something that Jesus guy said, and look how many people his followers killed in the crusades, witch-hunts, etc.")

Lastly, it's just not a form of rational thinking. Obviously the connotations of our words matter, but unless we can separate the connotation from the denotation we have no hope of arriving at the truth.
SpaceX has one deployment target, how many do front-end devs have? :P
This current story does not sound like anything weird is going on but some of the stories it sounds like some employees spend a majority of their time setting up protests internally.

It is hard to understand how someone can spend significant time in the office fomenting internal protests (even if they are for a good cause) and actually be getting their job done.
Serious question. How does an article like this get so many upvotes, followed by lots of comments saying the content is not upvote-worthy?
Oh so 8chan indeed moderates but not enough? Whats enough moderation by your standard and why should we go with that and not a more lenient one? So we should not only censor direct threats of violence we should also censor allegedly 'celebratory' posts that don't include a threat at all? Do you have any scientific proof that simply 'celebratory' posts cause violence too? Or are we just removing them because they're disgusting? You are aware that bad actors can and probably have come to stir up shit on 8chan to take it down right? Are you going to shut down a whole site because of these few people and they don't have the resources for all the whizbang algorithms that big sites like twitter uses to quickly remove posts but leave up tons of violent leftwing posts nobody care about?

PS 8chan for the most part is hardly edgey. There are a few eccentric groups in the subboards like all communities but in away its actually more like how the old internet used to be before, everything right of communism was 'far right'.
If 8chan or dailystormer never made the news, cloudflare would still be hosting them. It isn’t public opinion that is the big factor, enterprise client won’t use controversial services. Having a few large enterprise customers call up saying they can’t be hosted with a hate site is what made the CEO of cloudflare flip his decision.

I do think cloudflare will be forced to be more palatable to enterprise customers if they go public. One biggest factors why I don’t use them is who they provide access to.
This is the slippery slope that people worry about and why they fight against banning things like 8chan. First it's banning 8chan, then it's /r/The_Donald. What's next?

Mass shooters are a problem that must be dealt with. Pretending that everything to the right of mainstream Democrats is a pipeline to mass shooters that must be silenced is the type of thing that radicalizes people. It's unduly oppressive and it dehumanizes people you may not happen to agree with.
> You can sell something, and buy at a discount, but only by selling something at the same discount.

Most people sell labor or knowledge for 20-50 years during their lives. Pretty much continuously. So during a recession you can spend some of the money you get from your labor on stocks that are "on sale".
I have the feeling with 4G it gets better. Sadly the costs are rather prohibitive.

For example, I pay 35€ for 16GB LTE.

Also, while the Vodafone net is rather good, I read they are replacing their 3G with 4G, which means stuff gets faster, but only for people with newer phones.
I mean, these aren't the first mass shootings, and they won't be the last.

Every time a mass shooting comes up, there's a big period of sorrow. What makes this mass shooting any different from the last few?

Last time, a bunch of children were murdered in their school. In fact, there's so many where children were murdered in their school, that you probably don't even know which one I'm talking about: Columbine, Newton, or Parkland.

The status quo is to do nothing about these events. That's the unfortunate truth about our current society. No laws will be pass, nothing in our society will change. We might make a new memorial and write up a new line on the (ever growing) list of mass shootings, but anyone who has been following the news for a few years has become numb to these events years ago.

-----------

So 4chan brings down the ban-hammer. That's why 8chan popped up at all. There will be another site where this filth will rot, and plan their next attacks. In the meanwhile, nothing will get done from a legal standpoint.

How long do you think it will be before "16chan" (or whatever replacement) pops up, or for 8chan to find a new host? I dunno, I give it about 2 months, tops. And I give it a few weeks before everyone forgets about this event, and is suddenly "surprised again" in the next mass shooting event.

We'll get the 1-month writeup, the 1-year anniversary, and then maybe the 5-year and 10-year anniversary as below-the fold newspaper stories to remember this day. But by then, there will be other issues that will make us (largely) forget about this shooting.
Posts that start with "Launch HN" get placed on the front page similarly to how job ads do. These are the two formal things that HN gives back to YC in exchange for funding it: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme.... The difference is that job ads can't be upvoted and decline in rank as a function of time, while Launch HNs can be upvoted and get ranked like regular stories after the initial placement.

Posts by YC startups after their initial launch don't get any special treatment. If a submission doesn't say "Launch HN", it's subject to the same rules as everything else.

Edit: HN also displays YC alumni names in orange to other YC alumni.
Russian Apt Fancy Bear Compromises VoIP Office Phones to Spy on Corporations
While I get your point about guns in Alaska (I am assuming you mean there aren't mass shootings happening there), I think your overall statement is misguided. Alaska has the highest suicide rate [1] and second highest murder rate per captia in the USA [2].

I didn't pull articles for this, but it's pretty widely accepted that easy access to firearms directly ties to increases in suicide and murder.

[1]: http://dhss.alaska.gov/SuicidePrevention/Documents/pdfs_sspc...

[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_homicid...
The point is not to be fast but to be correct. In racing, smooth is fast because you didn't mess up and run off line or crash.

In software smooth is fast because you didn't have to bug squash and refactor. But even if it isn't faster, the grandparent comments point was that it doesn't matter as much as being correct anyway.
I think that's fairly common in a lot of the bigger and more remote national parks. Death Valley has decent cell reception at Furnace Creek (the main visitor center and lodging area) but AFAIK there's none in the rest of the 3,000 square miles.
You are correcting someone who used the word correctly. You have also misspelled "fomenting".

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/foment
> Germany isn't a dystopian hell-hole because they banned Nazism.

Despite several recent high-profile banning attempts, Germany still has a nazi party, established in 1964. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_G...
The 'chans seem almost like a leaderless cult. I've also seen people get completely sucked into them in this really honestly creepy way. I suppose it's like a subculture but minus virtually everything positive like socializing with real human beings and having real experiences.
Yeah but on the other hand you shouldn't be able to shout fire in a crowded theater so you need some censorship. As with like 99% of political arguments is about finding the line because the absolutist arguments generally end up kinda silly.
Wish this had existed at the beginning of my career.