An upvote for you, because finally a rational argument has been put forth.

> Four reasons. First of all, after the abolition of the provisions of the "Central People's Government or any other part of the government of the People's Republic of China", not only can the suspects be handed over to Taiwan, but also can be handed over to mainland China, which will greatly undermine Hong Kong's unique position. After all, the judicial system in mainland China is not independent, and it is often politically affected and cannot be fair and just. For example, Zhao Lianhai, who was vocalized by the family members of the tainted milk powder, was jailed for being convicted of causing trouble. If the amendment to the Fugitive Offenders Ordinance is passed, it means that mainland China can borrow Hong Kong's judicial system to send Hong Kong people to mainland China for trial. Public opinion believes that this will make many people feel scared, and Hong Kong people will no longer enjoy the freedom guaranteed by the Basic Law.

That is true, it's even stated in the legco PDF, that in order to open it up to Taiwan, it will open up to the mainland, because of the particular way mainland defines the PRC.

Zhao's was convicted, according to wikipedia in English, on "disturbing social order". The FOO amendment has the following (I've included the strikeouts that were excluded, so there are 46 points from the Schedule 1, but only 37 applies)

1. Murder or manslaughter, including criminal negligence causing death; culpable homicide; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring suicide.

3. Maliciously wounding; maiming; inflicting grievous or actual bodily harm; assault occasioning actual bodily harm; threats to kill; intentional or reckless endangering of life whether by means of a weapon, a dangerous substance or otherwise; offences relating to unlawful wounding or injuring.

4. Offences of a sexual nature including rape; sexual assault; indecent assault; unlawful sexual acts on children; statutory sexual offences.

5. Gross indecency with a child, a mental defective or an unconscious person.

6. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment; unlawful confinement; dealing or trafficking in slaves or other persons; taking a hostage.

7. Criminal intimidation.

8. Offences against the law relating to dangerous drugs including narcotics, psychotropic substances, precursors and essential chemicals used in the illegal manufacture of narcotics and psychotropic substances; offences relating to the proceeds of drug trafficking.

9. Obtaining property or pecuniary advantage by deception; theft; robbery; burglary (including breaking and entering); embezzlement; blackmail; extortion; unlawful handling or receiving of property; false accounting; any other offence in respect of property or fiscal matters involving fraud; any offence against the law relating to unlawful deprivation of property.

~~10. Offences against bankruptcy law or insolvency law. ~~

~~11. Offences against the law relating to companies including offences committed by officers, directors and promoters. ~~

~~12. Offences relating to securities and futures trading. ~~

13. Offences relating to counterfeiting; offences against the law relating to forgery or uttering what is forged.

~~14. Offences against the law relating to protection of intellectual property, copyrights, patents or trademarks. ~~

15. Offences against the law relating to bribery, corruption, secret commissions and breach of trust.

16. Perjury and subornation of perjury.

17. Offence relating to the perversion or obstruction of the course of justice.

18. Arson; criminal damage or mischief including mischief in relation to computer data.

19. Offences against the law relating to firearms.

20. Offences against the law relating to explosives.

~~21. Offences against the law relating to environmental pollution or protection of public health. ~~

22. Mutiny or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel at sea.

23. Piracy involving ships or aircraft.

24. Unlawful seizure or exercise of control of an aircraft or other means of transportation.

25. Genocide or direct and public incitement to commit genocide.

26. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

~~27. Offences against the law relating to the control of exportation or importation of goods of any type, or the international transfer of funds. ~~

28. Smuggling; offences against the law relating to import and export of prohibited items, including historical and archaeological items.

29. Immigration offences including fraudulent acquisition or use of a passport or visa.

30. Arranging or facilitating for financial gain, the illegal entry of persons into a jurisdiction.

31. Offences relating to gambling or lotteries.

32. Offences relating to the unlawful termination of pregnancy.

33. Stealing, abandoning, exposing or unlawfully detaining a child; any other offences involving the exploitation of children.

34. Offences against the law relating to prostitution and premises kept for the purposes of prostitution.

~~35. Offences involving the unlawful use of computers. ~~

~~36. Offences relating to fiscal matters, taxes or duties. ~~

37. Offences relating to unlawful escape from custody; mutiny in prison.

38. Bigamy.

39. Offences relating to women and girls.

~~40. Offences against the law relating to false or misleading trade descriptions. ~~

41. Offences relating to the possession or laundering of proceeds obtained from the commission of any offence described in this Schedule.

42. Impeding the arrest or prosecution of a person who has or is believed to have committed an offence described in this Schedule.

43. Offences for which persons may be surrendered under multi-lateral international conventions; offences created as a result of decisions of international organizations.

44. Conspiracy to commit fraud or to defraud.

45. Conspiracy to commit, or any type of association to commit, any offence described in this Schedule.

46. Aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of, inciting, being an accessory before or after the fact to, or attempting to commit an offence described in this Schedule

So I find it hard for "disturbing social order" to fit in any of those (the best attempt might be #17).

Suppose the CE will simply ram a case like this through, as per the SCMP infographic illustrate, it would then go to the HK courts and one could make their case there.

HK courts have remained unsullied for the most part, because existing interests relies on the Western style courts for their business dealings. From the other cases in the past where I have dug up rulings, I've not seen case where HK courts have behaved like Chinese courts. So even if one expects CE to side completely with China, it still needs to go through the HK judicial system.

> Secondly, Hong Kong is an international commercial city...

Agreed. I can see #8, 9, 13, 28, 31, 41, 44 to potentially be abused. It would also require the offence to be sentenced for at least 7 year to trigger the case transfer.

They have noted that this was one of the concerns for opposition, even in the older doc that I linked (it was before they bump the minimum prison sentence from 3 to 7).

> Thirdly, according to the existing provisions, whether it is a long-term agreement or a case transfer, it must be considered by the Legislative Council...

So the SCMP infographic had already stated that even if the CE approves, it goes into the HK courts. The courts can decide not to permit the extradition to proceed.

LegCo is a political body comprised from all walks of life; while some have a legal background, not all of them are. The Judiciary is better suited for these kinds of legal matters, and democratic governments elsewhere also have judges to keep them in check.

> Fourthly, this amendment has caused a lot of social controversy and it is reasonable to give the public sufficient time to understand, discuss and reflect their opinions.

This is something that CE Lam really has to wear - I find it baffling to attempt to rush this. It's a touchy enough subject, and they're better off comparing and contrasting the amended model with other jurisdictions. Comparing to say the Canadian model, https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/emla-eej/extradition.htm..., for example, Canada has the department receiving the request, judge go through the request, then ministerial decision. In short, bureaucracy -> judiciary -> executive branch (of sorts).

edit: argh formatting.