skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Intellectual curiosity is HN's essence. To change it to no longer be about that would be to kill it. If it's going to fail, let that be because we tried our best and fell short, not because we folded prematurely. People have been saying that HN is degenerating and and dying since shortly after it started; that's the sort of thing people say on the internet. Meanwhile HN is still here, and so are many of the users who posted those complaints. So there must be something curiosity-gratifying about it.

> The fact that such benign incidents resulted in large flamewars [...] indicates a greater rot growing inside HN's culture.

Such incidents result in flamewars because society is polarized on these topics and getting more so. Is there a single place on the open internet at HN's scale or greater that is any different, or indeed isn't worse? HN can't be immune from macro trends. (For example, there have lately been more nationalistic flamewars, especially about China. That's plainly related to shifts in geopolitics.) If HN is a ship, the sea is stormy. We can't control the waves, or how much vomiting the passengers do. If we focus on what we're actually able to affect, maybe we can prevent the ship from sinking.

I took another look at the threads you linked to and don't see what you see. The balance of the community there is clearly supportive. Most of the indignant comments are from people protesting against the negative reactions, which were clearly in the minority. Those don't represent the community, although (as always) the community is divided. So I come back to what I said in my first reply to you: if you're judging the community by the worst things that appear here, that's a fallacy. (Actually, I'm talking about your links #1 and #3. #2 was worse.)

Perhaps my standards are lower than yours? That's possible. On the other hand, sometimes when people post complaints like yours I have the impression that what they really want is for us to take their side on every issue and ban everyone on the opposite side. We can't do that. The community would not allow it, and trying to force it would destroy it—what good would that do? There's a deeper reason too: enforcing homogeneity would be incompatible with intellectual curiosity, and we're optimizing for the latter. The price of that is a certain turmoil on divisive topics—enough to convince ideologically committed users that the site is dominated by the other side (see "hostile media effect" above). If you don't think people on the opposite side of the issues have just as "starkly negative" a view of HN as people in your circles do, I have a long list of links I can share. In fact I almost unearthed them to post here, but decided to spare you.
Most of the interest in this story has been in right-wing media stemming from a false "racism" accusation that is a PART of this case and also due to a bigger narrative around left-wing campuses. I'd frame the story differently than you did, but the bigger point is that we shouldn't pretend this isn't mostly a right-wing media news story for these reasons.

I think we both agree that if the racism charge had strong merit (it didn't), then most would see this as a liberal news story because that's mostly who would be focusing on it. People tend to be drawn to stories that reinforce their world view.

That, of course, doesn't mean it shouldn't be part of the discussion here. (I've been active in this thread so obviously I think it should be here.)

Edit: Also, I'm not the person you were responding to but this was very dishonest of you:

> That the victim was white?

OP said exactly why they thought it was conservative. They cited that it was because it was related to "conservative campus panic." To pretend they could have said it because "the victim was white" is very dishonest of you.
Fwiw, you don't have to explain, everyone understands.
DARE is a failure. As is the entire war on drugs in America.
> I think the big big result from this study is: "Python: half the size!".

I would agree, if and only if I thought a representative sample of Python programmers would all produce something of a similar size and just as correct, but I suspect, in this case, it's the result of one especially talented person.
I really miss Dr Dobbs (when it was a thicker physical magazine). As a budding programmer, I learned so much from it
At least I would assume they would try to create a set of test locations that they would first update instead of everything. I understand that there may be differences in hardware but I still find it odd they wouldn't have a more limited deployment. Even with all the testing you could ever do pushing an update to everything at once without any real world testing seems absurd.

Also I think it is hard to ask when you should push the update but based on their hours it seems like you should not push an update on Saturday of all things. If you are not going to do limited testing first then I think you should deploy 8-9 on a weekday, I would guess Tuesday would be the day with least traffic so do that.

Under no circumstances should you push regular updates on a Saturday, especially since that requires work Sunday if anything goes wrong and impacts what are probably 2 of the top 3 days of the week for this kind of shopping.
That is a good point worth emphasizing.

It is well-known that teams cause overhead. Think of the Mythical Man-Moth.

But in the end the other teams had 3 people that were able to maintain and develop their project further, if needed. The single-person team had only one such person.
I love them. I also just managed to mess up a function because of one and not realize it until a late stage of testing
I don't know that I've doubly nested them.
Not to mention the Giulia is gorgeous.
I would say this is true of a programming language, but not really of LaTeX.

Now LaTeX technically is a programming language, it's Turing complete. But in practice for most users it's not.

Sure, there might be subtle inconsistencies. There might be some bit of mathematical notation that looks slightly different in one part of your document than another. I guess some people would be bothered by this, I'm not one of them.

It is true that it's possible to become a LaTeX power user, and write all sorts of sophisticated macros. In that case, yeah, you want to get the foundations right. But if you're just doing something simple (e.g. writing up a math paper), then mysterious breakages aren't an issue; there's not really anything to break.

When I worked as a programmer in industry, I was quite anal retentive about how I coded, and getting a feel for the languages I used. They were the tools with which I did my work. But LaTeX, for me anyway, is merely the tool with which I typeset my work. An outstanding tool, perfect for the job -- but not one I choose to invest time in mastering.
What about "jerk?" Should that be libel if there's no evidence the person is a jerk?
Or maybe he's closer to a kid who was never forced to grow up.
Python is indeed very frustrating that way. So many of its limitations and flaws are justified on the basis of clarity and then there are this array of very simple things that can only be expressed in unclear ways which every other language offers a solution for.
Good point. Of course. But if I'm writing or reading in English I still would prefer "I".
Someone once told me that a lot of the big navy ships run on a customized version of Windows XP! Can anyone here confirm?
Given that students in question plead guilty, it seems quite plausible that "willful disregard for the truth" is exactly what happened here.
> But perfect typesetting can't be achieved (currently, to the best of my knowledge) in any TeX family language.

What is/are the alternatives? Word? Apple Pages? LibreOffice? Markdown-via-pandoc? DocBook? FrameMaker (Windows only)? Other?

Out of the box, what gives better PDF/paper output better than something that is TeX-based?
Their "study" reminds me of Penn & Teller getting people to sign a petition banning dihydrogen monoxide (aka water).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw

Just another form of social engineering. Haha, we compiled footage from a bunch of randos to show how stupid people. Haha, aren't we smart!

It's the academic equivalent of tricking someone into walking into a punch.
https://www.computerworld.com/article/2939435/us-navy-paid-m...
URL should be replaced by [1], which is the original article.

[1] https://tedium.co/2019/06/13/nyc-subway-os2-history/
DBeaver has some kind of engine which allows you to write sql queries against csv files. I think mysql also has csv storage engine which you may find useful to hack into something.
Why not start with software which isn't known to deliberately disseminate information about your computer. Sure, if you move the goalposts all day, you'll never score.
I know. It's strange to say that. But Scala's library is very very rich.

Another example is that Scala offers a lot of ways to process a list like foldLeft, foldRight, unzip, headOption, lastOption, flatMap, groupBy, and many methods around Map, Set, and etc. Python probably doesn't offer many of these methods.

Of course, this comes with the cost of higher learning curve.
"python doesnt offer a rich standard library"

Python is usually considered one of the richest standard libraries out there.

Yes, the is no standard way to get this one edgecase, but every language has warts and things like that. It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to hate on Python.
That's a shame (for them).

Your URL structure suggests you may be planning to do this for other Apollo missions, is that in the cards?

Edit: I see you've done this for Apollo 17 already on a different URL: https://apollo17.org/
You mention meta.org, you know you could work with us on it https://chanzuckerberg.com/join-us/openings/?team=engineerin... (search "meta" on that page)
C++ has had sum types for years, so I'm not sure why that was mentioned. If you aren't familiar/experienced with the language, then the comparison is not fair overall.
A comparable example from JavaScript, there is no library-method for getting the last element of an array, so it gets clumsy: myArray [myArray.length - 1]. A better standard library would provide a method for that: myArray.last(). Or maybe myArray[-1].
Thanks for the summary. I appreciate the craft of this sort of long-form writing, but I also want a quick summary to know if it's worth investing the time to read.
Well there's probably not a whole lot of OS/2 ransomware, so they're less likely to wind up in the situation of the San Francisco Muni

https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/you-hacked-appears-at-muni-s...
Eh, have you heard about that app in Spain that was listening for soccer games at bars to see if they were illegally broadcasting said game?

The problem here is FB 'might've do that directly, but is 100% happening they are getting metrics from other apps that directly listen to users or do what we would consider outright privacy violations. There is too much money and too little risk not to at this point.
Privacy isnt a public safety issue?
That's a great example. And, yes, Javascript has a similar problem.
This is absolutely remarkable! I'm in awe of the whole thing, as is my father!

Thank you so much. This kind of effort means so much to the both of us.
Two years of work experience isn't going to make them experts in a language, especially during an internship. Languages like c++ would be a minimum of 5 years of professional programming to be competent I've found.
This is so cool! I've just been sitting here listening for a while now.
Ha ha. What a joke.
>increase the efficiency of scientific research — the supply room is just the beginning.

Efficiency is often compromised institutionally, so I know this is an obstacle.

I've got a lifetime of business models for scientific software, but that wasn't the question above.

One way to accelerate many types of laboratory research would be to offer a workflow alternative where very high performance individuals can make the choice to spend almost all their working time at the bench(es) rather than being distracted or sitting down at desks or office & lab computers. While maintaining overall leadership of the organization, so this requires a different type of team structure as it scales.

That way someone who can really invent a lot doesn't get bogged down by the bureaucracy of their earlier inventions.
I enjoy hacking in dynamic languages as much as the next programmer. But, the big take-away is that "the initial implementation was done in 1/2 the code" not that the resulting code was more extensible or maintainable (by other programmers!).

> You might say that surely that additional cost would be compensated in reducing the cost of maintenance later. Maybe but I'm not sure.

I am sure. 100%. From many years of experience.

Yes, static types come at an initial cost at initial development time. But they pay that time back in spades. This is exponentially true the larger the code base is (more to keep in one's head), the longer the project lives, and the more people are on it.

Having worked on very large C/C++, Scala and Python projects, when it comes to add a major feature or perform a serious refactor, I always want the static typing and the compiler to inform me when I've missed something. Far too many times has code been checked into a large Python code base that breaks something (completely unbeknownst to the programmer), because there's a code path that's rarely executed or arguments to a function flipped, etc.

That all said. There are major benefits to being able to prototype very quickly in a dynamically typed language, too.
Network Protocols and Their Use
Not just the US navy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Command_System#SMC...
But it is socially acceptable that after installing an app or signing up for a service it gets to scrub all the data from the phone; contacts, photos, messages, relationships, locations, businesses, apps installed, calls, usage, all of it, then correlate it, classify it, generate profiles, predict behaviors and sell that information?
I think the best way to accelerate scientific research is to recreate Bell Labs in a modern setting, free from the desire to succeed.

Get a huge endowment fund (the hard part), hire a bunch of smart and promising people, and tell them you want them to change the world.
Well nature did this to me and the committment to accelerated operation of a wounded laboratory (before it could have been lost altogether) yielded better progress IMHO on the same scientific instrumentation compared to leading PhDs in my field.

I wouldn't recommend it for everyone seeking commercialization because of accompanying roadblocks due to the systematic financial pressure against individuals coming from survival conditions.

But it is good knowing what this gear can really do.
Favorite quote from the article, "Despite the failure of OS/2 in the consumer market, it was hilariously robust..."

Would this make the NYC subway system more or less prone to hacking? Can't imagine there are a ton of exploits in OS/2 that modern hackers would know about.
This just makes me think that if Walmart ever made it so the grocery pickup didn't use an immense amount of plastic bags so many people would use it.

I tried using it once and they were selling reusable bags so I assumed they required you to use their reusable bags. This was unfortunately not the case instead they put everything including the bags in their own plastic bag I just felt awful and never used it again.

I know some people who still use it because it is great to be able to look around your kitchen and know exactly what you need but it seems like there are so many people like me that would use it but don't do so because of the massive waste.
Tim Sweeney is a huge programming language nerd. He privately experiments with functional programming, dependent types, stm and code gen.

EDIT: Removed possible demeaning sentence
> ... to paper over the decrepit nature of the American political system, they are attacking civilian infrastructure in a nuclear armed nation. @tehjoker

Uh, I think what you /really/ mean is:

In retaliation to numerous US Network Infrastructure incursions -from the same entity- the US has attempted their own software implantation within the attacker's networks.

Fixed that for ya! ;)

_____

Also, from the article itself which you apparently didn't read:

""" Two administration officials said they believed Mr. Trump had not been briefed in any detail about the steps to place “implants” — software code that can be used for surveillance or attack — inside the Russian grid.
Pentagon and intelligence officials described broad hesitation to go into detail with Mr. Trump about operations against Russia for concern over his reaction — and the possibility that he might countermand it or discuss it with foreign officials, as he did in 2017 when he mentioned a sensitive operation in Syria to the Russian foreign minister.

Because the new law defines the actions in cyberspace as akin to traditional military activity on the ground, in the air or at sea, no such briefing would be necessary, they added. """
The trains in Melbourne ran on a DEC PDP-11/84 based signalling system.

In 2003 they started to move the application to PC running Windows XP using a special processor card to virtualise the old CPUs although "Due to the core software limitation (no source code available) we were compelled to integrate some original PDP-11 computer cards into the final product and this resulted in a hybrid PC platform"

https://www.equicon.de/images/Virtualisierung/LegacyTrainCon...
It makes sense to me - you get both deliberate practice and creative practice. I don't know if it's the best, perhaps someone who is good at cooking can provide a more informed opinion.

I was also told that cooking from good ingredients is easy, the hard part is figuring out what to cook given the ingredients you have on a given day.
Interestingly, in 2011 they were still using MS-DOS:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_110129-N-7676W-15...

...and a lot of (physical) stores still use a DOS-based application for their POS systems, judging by the appearance, although they might not actually be running it on DOS but a later version of Windows.
>I personally didn't, though. I'm neither naive, nor am I a knee-jerk reactionary. But the underlying context is that idiots on the net pretending to be Nazis want Symbol A to be associated with hate, they're just doing so as a joke.

You're sure acting like one. Albeit one who actually bothers to try to elucidate their case; which I do appreciate.

>So, yes, while some people are reacting like that, they're not entirely foolish for doing so, or entirely wrong, because hate groups will probably embrace Symbol A unironically, because they're part of the same community, and they're taking the piss at the trolls the way the trolls are taking the piss at everyone else, and it being a meme gives them plausible deniability.

Given. I don't see anything necessarily wrong with the dynamic aside from the fact you're still falling into the ideological trap I mentioned previously.

>And then someone shoots up a synagogue and burns down a mosque.

>And somehow it's still everyone's fault but those crazy kids on the chans with their wacky hijinks.

So everyone on the Chan's are psychopaths looking to shoot up mosques? Now who is starting to sound extremist?

>It's not 2008 anymore.

It most certainly isn't. In 2008, no one in their right mind would endorse outright suppressing discourse to the level people do today. I don't see that being the fault of "those crazy kids on the Chans". I see it as a result of an increasingly technologically savvy oppressive majority starting to tighten the noose around populations they consider problematic and not worth trying to rehabilitate/understand/integrate.. But hey, what do I know?

I've just been observing the phenomena in action for the last decade or so, and how whenever the Chan's are brought up by the mainstream media, it's as some sort of internet based cesspool of evil instead of as just what it is; a glorified bulletin board.
Does Target still not allow Apple Pay?
My surprise from this study was simply that dynamic languages are clearly not much worse than the best-of-breed statically typed languages. Maybe 20% is within the margin or error, but you definitely can't take that as any evidence that Scala is "better" than Python.

The reason I think this is "big big news" is I thought the general consensus had already been reached in academia if not the programming community that "statically typed functional languages are much better". There's little or no evidence of that in the results of this study.
Let me guess, everyone suffers from racism except white people. And white people are the only ones who can be racist.

I've learned a lot about HN today.
I'm trying to come up with words to describe this that would be worthy of even saying. All I can say is I love it. I was born in 1973, but for those of you who don't remember the pre-internet edge, current books and movies weren't exactly a click away. It would take years for the encyclopedia sets and science books to be updated. So at the ages of 6-12, all of the materials about space were about the Apollo missions. My friends and I would just absorb anything and everything Apollo and moon related we could find as if it were currently happening. This whole real time experience takes me back to that place of trying to figure what time of day they lifted off, how fast they were traveling, how long it took to get into orbit, how long they were there, etc. All of that kind of thing, and here it is beautifully recreated with time, voices, and video. And point in time data to boot. It's just wonderful.
I prefer security focused organizations attempted to deploy their limited resources more effectively. Well trained and security conscious end users are very hard to attack.
Libel has never been protected speech.
Yes. I decided to no longer buy a domain name for each one after a cybersquatter swiped apollo11.org (like I have any money)
> but every language has warts and things like that

Sure, but we are talking about the brevity of a language. The richness of the standard library directly impacts brevity.

So, Ruby would have been a better representative (for brevity) of a high-level dynamic-typed language.

> the is no standard way to get this one edgecase

I don't think `.first` is an edge case. It is used fairly often. One example that I can think of right now is when you want to fetch the first row from MySQL. MySQL returns an array, and you would need `.first` to get the first row or null.

> It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to hate on Python

Not at all. While I don't prefer Python, I recognize there's a downside to a richer standard library. The language becomes more complex; harder to learn.

Richest is relative. If we consider Python against every other programming language, then, yes, it's ONE of the richests.

If we consider Python vs. Ruby vs. Scala, I doubt Python would be considered as richer or richest.

For example, Scala offers a lot of ways to process a list like foldLeft, foldRight, unzip, headOption, lastOption, flatMap, groupBy, and many methods around Map, Set, and etc. There are many examples where Ruby version would result in shorter code like `array.delete_if` and etc. Python probably doesn't offer many of these methods.
Slightly smaller-scale than most suggestions here, but for the average nonscientific HNer, the best way to help scientists is to improve their programming tools. In the Python ecosystem, for instance; numpy/scipy, scikit-learn, and matplotlib are widely used across dozens of disciplines, and are open-source projects relatively welcoming of new contributors. Julia is a whole new language for scientific computing, where all the fundamental tools are still being built and refined. Raspberry pis, 3D printers and other “hobbyist maker” tools are appearing in research labs to help develop novel instrumentation, so hardware-oriented people can help by contributing to open-source efforts of that kind.