skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Would most founders be interested in finding programmers through the traditional job posting/resume/interview process? I'm thinking that to get a crack at working with really excellent programmers and founders, you probably need to be connected through a network and known a bit by reputation. No, you don't have to be famous, just respected and known by a group of good peers.

I take a particular interst in this question because I'm working on a project (that doesn't deserve to be called a startup, but maybe it could be), and I need someone with kick-ass UI design and graphics skills (I wrote the backend myself, but it looks lame). I'll go through my blurred social/professional networks to see who would be into it.

Then again, I'm just looking for someone I already know and like who would dig the project and maybe want to make something of it. An actual job job, the kind that pays money, can probably afford to be more formal about this sort of thing. But would you want to be? Seems safer to go through those blurry networks at an early stage, where one bad programmer can drag everything down. and one good one can rev it up fast.
Perhaps I'm too simple-minded, but paying bloggers to talk about your site just sits wrong with me. I thought that part of the reason blogging has become so popular is because the traditional media outlets were getting to be too influenced by money and politics, so blogs were inherently more honest and interesting. To see some of the same practices occurring in blogs spells decline in my opinion; if enough of them succumb to these mechanisms, blogging will lose its credibility or honesty just as other media outlets have.

</rant>

I still thought the article had some good suggestions, and I'll be sure to keep it in mind when launching my own site.
No kidding. As much as some people around here hate to hear it, sometimes you have to FORCE your users provide content before they can receive their fill of content from your app. What are the benefits/costs of each approach?

Allowing users to receive without giving content:

1. Good: Maximizes the impact of your PR/ Lets you grow really fast over a short period of time.

2. Bad: Easy come, easy go. Since the users have no role as a content creator, they will be out of there the second your competitor has the slightest feature improvements over you.

Requiring every user to be a creator (edit- to receive full benefit from your app):

1. Bad: The start can be rough. Expect to have to really have to use some marketing ingenuity.

2. Good: Users will be locked in.

3. Good: Your site will (should) be far more valuable if more people are contributing. This, along with #1 will lead to exponential growth.

4. Maybe bad: With this abundance of content, it will be mandatory that you find a way to present the user with the content that is most relevant to him.

5. Good: You are monopolizing access to a lot of content. You can probably charge users directly for this access.

Thoughts?
Google Docs & Spreadsheets Adds Graphs, Inches Even Further On Office Trough
However low it might be, as a ratio, isn't something I'd really be too concerned with. The ratio of Steven Spielberg to everyone who sees his movies is pretty low, for example. I don't think that's a problem.

Only 0.2% of users upload photos to flikr, probably because the number of lurkers has skyrocketed. The number of quality contributors only needs to grow fast enough to keep the lurkers and voters growing.
Another bad of requiring everyone to be a creator, which depends on the sort of site you are making:

-Not everyone wants to or has the skills to be a creator.

I'm not a photographer. My pictures are barely good enough for myspace photo albums. No amount of coercion is going to get me to take and upload photos to flikr. It's only going to make me not use the site at all.
Ok, I might've over reacted there. I should've said I LOVE everything about News.YC except the censoring of down-voted comments :)

Regardless, it looks like other comments w/ negative karma are grayed out (like http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=13764 ). So I imagine this comment was probably deleted by the author...
The Craftsmanship of Code
But in your example, the absence of photo albums on myspace is punished quite heavily in practice.

Right up until they were sitting on a billion dollar valuation, you could not even make your photos private to just your friends. Sharing was mandatory.

Note that I am not saying that zero content should be available until the user has made a contribution to the site, just that the site should at least keep something special for people who do. Most importantly, I am not saying that this practice is best for all sites or even the majority.
When I have "umpty-million dollars", I'll start worrying about that.
Odd spin to the title. The ratios they quote sound about what I'd predict. What standard are they weak in comparison to? Presumably whatever uneducated guess the writer of this article already had in his head. This kind of thing is exactly why traditional journalism sucks.
iminlikewithyou invites - first 5 emails get one (NONE LEFT)
Probably the best answer is to learn enough about hacking to recognize people who are good at it, like Jobs did.
Guide to Buying and Selling Land in Second Life
Thanks to Sam_Odio for giving out the first round of invites here.
This was one of the main points of Jackie Huba and Ben McConnell in "Citizen Marketers" where they talk introduced what they called "The 1 Percenters", named for the average contribution rate of the sites they studied.
Amazon Daily Launches
iminlikewithyou (at) kfischer (dot) com

Thanks
31. complete step 13 then submit to demomyapp.com
I'm not sure I get where they are going with this.
this is nothing like Apollo. it's a local web server/app, which syncs to web sites
You don't just want cash, you want cash & brains. You want smart people with knowledge of your market and the ability to help you succeed not just through money, but through advice, connections, etc.
1. Mark all items as read.
2. Avatars.
zaid

at

unc

dot

edu

thanks!
Paul Graham is Hurting the Children
skarasic at work dot com
Please, somebody think of the children!
Only thing Virb and us may share is our love for music.

We're headed towards a system where we can recommend people indie music that they may like. Most of what we do comes from our users(ie. we did a survey last month) so hopefully we shouldn't have a big gap from what we make and what our users want.
Take a careful look at the number they're measuring. They say that only 0.2% of visits to Flickr are uploads.

That's very different from saying that only 0.2% of users upload content. Even someone who regularly uploads photos to Flickr probably views 10 photos for every one they upload. Think about news.YC: in a typical day, I probably post 3-4 comments and submit one article, yet I read about two dozen articles and 50+ comments. And I'm #13 on the leader list, so most people would probably consider me a participant.

IMHO, the article chose a very meaningless number and then reported it as a big find. Reads always outnumber writes, by a large margin. Your top contributors don't just post things, they're also usually voracious consumers, probably reading dozens of items for every one they submit.

It's like saying that novelists read 100 books for every one that they write, and therefore they aren't really contributing anything to literature.
5 IILWY Invites (Nevermind... all out)
Thanks go to Sam_Odio for mine. First five emails gets one.
bkmrkr at@ yahoo.com Thanks!
List of cool frameworks
ravi.rao@gmail.com

please? thanks!
ryan [@] ryanpark dot orgy.

Well, not actually orgy. No Y.

Thanks!
Anyone know where I can find a compiled list of frameworks for typical Web 2.0 applications? I'm interested in building something, but there's so much crap out there ;)

Examples would include scriptaculous, delicious, YUI. I was hoping for a matrix comparison list or something..
I sent you one.
I sent you one also.
Thanks much, got it! :)
Thanks Alex, got it!
Of course. I had Reddit blocked at work for a while so I could finish up my previous project.

Alas, I find that taking away distractions really doesn't help that much. I usually just find something else to distract myself. I need to find something that's more engrossing than the distraction for this to work well.

Unfortunately, my workplace is interruption-central. Open-plan office, cubemate working on the same project, frequent calls to help out on something. Makes me feel important, but hard to get anything done. Ah well, it's my employer's problem. If my startup ever gets big enough to hire, though, I think I'm going to splurge for private offices.
nostrademons AT gmail DOT com
john at todotoh dot com
Argh, and I just came home! Can everyone who's in tell me what it's like? :P
This guy has not thought things through. Sure, hundreds of people apply to YC every cycle, but we only develop a relationship with the few we fund. In fact the thing I like least of all about YC is that it's effectively a machine for making hundreds of smart hackers dislike us, or at least feel somewhat hurt, every six months.

Also, like nearly everyone (including, fortunately, most imitators) he's stuck on this idea that we like to fund undergrads. In fact the median founder is around 25; it's harder to get funded as an undergrad than not.
grahamspam at gmail dot com
As opposed to Random Big Company, who would otherwise be getting this $1million+ talent and paying them $50-60K?
Wow, the site is looking much better now. It's gone from being an interesting technology demo to something that is starting to look useful.
info at reatlas.com

thanks!
timg.is.here at gmail
What salary/equity do I ask for?
So, let's say this is all "theoretical" for now. A startup in CA (Stanford or Palo Alto likely) wants to fly me over to discuss salary/equity. They gave me a demo of their product and I think it has a lot of potential.

Here's my situation: I'm a college student (sophomore), been writing websites in html since age 9, very comfortable with many open, web-based languages, and very skilled in graphic design and marketing. I have most Adobe/Macromedia programs down. I would also be the first 'employee' at this startup (would prefer a co-founder position, but I'm not sure if it's reasonable to negotiate on that level).

I've calculated it may cost me $2,000 a month to get a studio apartment. Aside from that, I'll have to start paying my financial aid 6 months after leaving school. Does anyone know what ballpark number I should be negotiating under?
Aww, barely missed it!
Yeah, not so clear what he means. It's not as if your fundees work for you after all, they merely trade a bit of equity for your connections and mentoring. Not really sure where this guy is going.

And besides, I don't think anyone dislikes you when you can't fund them. They just get really determined to prove you wrong. :)
PLEASE DELETE
I don't like it either. I've talked clients out of doing that and doing something instead with some of the content in the page. Just a portion though, not the entire thing. In my view Google should be Google.
Similar to .mac accounts then?
joshfraz AT gmail DOT come
cheers :)
I'd suggest asking for 90% of a first-year salary for CS majors in the area (I'm guessing $55k or so?), plus 5% equity. Take it from there. You might get beat up on the 5% but if you're employee #1 it sounds reasonable.

Think hard though about leaving school. Not saying it's a bad idea, just think it through.
Well, adblock. But no, I have enough problems distracting myself from work, without blocking sites.

It comes down to the fact that, when I'm 'in the zone' I don't bother to read websites, and when I'm not, there's nothing that's going to take me there, so I might as well enjoy the internet.
Take a look at: http://jesusphreak.infogami.com/blog/vrp1

This is Python-specific but it's got good summary information.
Thanks. I'm really interested to see how their site works, feels, how it's built, etc.
This is a little silly. How do you know when you have found a robot? When someone says no. How do you know when you have found an entrepreneur? When someone says yes. No doubt a good entrepreneur can find an encouraging angle on a lot of bad ideas, but that insight still does not make a bad idea good.

Innovative people have a lot of ideas; successful innovative people are able to understand which ideas are worthwhile and execute them. An entrepreneur with promise may well tell you: You are dead wrong.

Of course a buffoon may well tell you the same when you are well on your way to conquer the world. This article does not offer helpful insight into understanding who to respect (save for not respecting the author of course).
Hey, that's my idea! I'm going to make a mint!

Step 1: get lots of people jobs

Step 2: ...

Step 3: Profit!
If anyone had ever tried to tell me that engineering was necessarily divorced from craftsmanship I would have laughed in his face.
PG, Since the piece was mostly tongue in cheek I agree, not much thought went into it. But it would only make sense that some of the team members not making the cut ended up on a team that did. Also, it is common knowledge and confirmed by large companies such as Google and Microsoft that they sometimes buy companies for the value of the team rather than the product. So in the general sense, the logic works.

After reading some threads in your news-YC section, I did find that some of the companies not making the grade were ticked off. But, this can be handled by setting expectations and delivering the rejection in the proper manner. We all know that we desire what we cant have.
Put it this way. I am sure that a recruiter that had access to the list of contacts amassed through your funding contests could show a fine ROI on your investment. No doubt there is value in that network of contacts.

BTW the article is Titled: Paul Graham is Selling our children
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I think its possible to compete with Google on most things, except Web Search. Google has web search nailed down. I think this is the reason when people give advice to startups they nearly always say: Find a niche, or do one thing really well... Google does Web Search better tahn anyone else. Can it be done better, of course.
Web 2.0 is all about the money
This article is pretty confused. It goes from web 2.0 to msft's objections to the doubleclick deal to a weird aside about a bank of america security breach. But this is what the masses read.
YC did set expectations and delivered the rejection in a manner that's hard to beat. Have you seen the rejection letter? Have you seen the numerous places where pg enumerates what things make a successful startup?
fp - it's supposed to be silly. The point was to make sure the person you're talking to and is providing advice has actually built a company and is not just a robot talking out of their ass.
You should be able to do way better than $2k a month for an apartment in Palo Alto. More like $1200, and with roomates way less.
FogBugz (Joel Spolsky) Free Beta for MicroISVs
Great if you want to have a user forum without having to host or install anything on your server.

Our forum for SeekSift is here: http://seeksift.fogbugz.com/?forum
No to both. I was responding to PG saying people did not like YC after they were rejected. So, you are proving the point that there is a network and relationship created, even after they dont make the cut. And that is the value I am speaking about. You dont need to defend YC. I am all for it. I am only pointing out that there is value in the people that participate, maybe even more than the ideas.
send me one please jeff.frese@gmail.com
zenter in trouble?
how is google's new presentation software going to affect the success of zenter? has the zenter team responded to the announcement yet?
I recently discovered a site, http://buildv1.com that was built for hooking up startups with startuppers. I actually found someone from this site that worked with us for a little while.
Ask YC.news: Adequate, cheap motels near the YC-plex?
Sorry... please delete, actual link is the one above.
anyone else willing share? dss at orst dot edu
it's effectively a machine for making hundreds of smart hackers dislike us

I'm actually writing "REVENGE" on my knuckles as I'm typing this... ;)
eBay Acquiring StumbleUpon
What I'm saying is that YC did all it could to keep rejected applicants from being ticked off, but that was not enough. Did you read the "Two kinds of judgement" comments?

I was rejected and am not ticked off, but I'm more stubborn and thick-skinned than most. I don't think I'm representative.
clay@woolam.org thanks
I'm sorry. I would not have been so cold had I noticed the author submitted the article and would likely read the comments. I was tactless.

I read some of your other work and found it to be sensible and helpful. Although I still think that this article, standing alone, may raise suspicions of charlatanism. It would be a great shame if that was the idea people took away from your work.

But, I am not convinced that I am not a robot talking out of my ass. What do I know?
Greenspun's evidence is kind of suspect here. He's noticed a correlation (successful projects are not done in Java) and decided that there's causation (Java doesn't lead to successful projects).

My guess is that students who are actually experienced with web apps will avoid Java like the plague due to the horrible rap it has in the web development community (from people like Greenspun). Meanwhile, those who are less clued in are going to choose the language they're comfortable with, namely Java.

I feel even more confident in that explanation given that he lists C#/.NET as a good language. Syntax-wise, Java and C# are extremely similar, and performance-wise C# might have an edge, but not to the point where it would affect the goodness of apps. The complexity of their respective stacks is pretty similar as well.

Moral of the story is, good hackers can make good software in any language you throw at them, and bad coders will not. I suppose there are aspects of stacks, like RoR, which will make it easy for bad coders to put something respectable together, but I seriously can't see Java as inhibiting great people from making great things.
Italics are done with asterisk-word-asterisk (without the dashes, and use the character, shift+8 on my keyboard).
It would have to be one heck of a sweet deal to justify quitting school for, especially if you're getting parental support. Startups base their decisions on your demonstrable talent; everyone else looks at credentials. If the startup fails (80% chance, on average), not having the credential will be a liability.

I wouldn't take an employee position at a company (startup or no) in the bay area for under $100,000, and it would have to be pretty sweet to get me to accept that. For a startup, it would have to be people I really liked on top of that, because I don't put in 80-hour weeks for money alone.

And if you have parental support, quitting to take a job may well mean that that support never comes back in quite the same way, and finishing school, if you ever do, will be on your dime. And college is a lot more fun when you're 19 and carefree than when you're 30something and wondering if it justifies the tuition.

It's your call, though; this is one of those decisions that has the possibility of being something you later regret no matter which way you decide. Think long and hard.
Haha that is so true. The dream of hundreds of Hackers is to wag their finger at PG and say. "I told you so!"
What is Ebay doing with stumbleupon? Doesn't seem to fit with their business. Not in any way I can see at least.
slideshare.net
Although Paul Graham (peace and blessings be upon him) says Microsoft is a decaying carcass and not to be feared, I would be deathly afraid of Google. However clever the enterprising men of Zenter are and however hungry they are for the Microsoft carcass, they better run away. Because Google is a pack of lions and they will eat you. They will eat through Microsoft and Zenter to the bone.
Zenter needs to start the marketing machine up and post some screenshots and some links to presentations created with it. There's at least one presentation I've seen created with it.

Just give us a taste of Zenter and we'll be hooked.
Weird how I got downmodded for furthering the discussion. I've been noticing a lot of this in the past week, don't know if it's related to the rush of new users in the past month. Small thing, but kind of annoying.
Yahoo Teams Up With PayPal On Checkout
wondering the same...
GigaOM: Why eBay wants Stumbleupon
I can't really think of any reason, but Om Malik apparently can... posted that link as well.
Schoudha's right -- the killer edge for Zenter is making a connected presentation app that leverages the web. Remember the annoying task of importing presentation images? Why not make that easier since you're already in a browser? Things like that.
From: http://gigaom.com/2007/04/18/ebay-likely-buyer-for-stumbleupon/#more-8780

"By marrying the (StumbleUpon) toolbar to Skype client, eBay can do an end run around Googles dominance of the search business. A simple search box inside Skype client is all it would take. It is not that far fetched: Skype has been slowly integrating various different services (including PayPal) into its client, and slowly becoming eBays desktop backdoor."
"Note that I am not saying that zero content should be available until the user has made a contribution to the site, just that the site should at least keep something special for people who do. Most importantly, I am not saying that this practice is best for all sites or even the majority."

I agree. On myspace, for example, much of the value is tied up in the actual user. Quality photos aren't important. What's important is that they are photos of a real person you can make comments on and send messages to. It makes sense for them to encourage participation to a greater degree.
My guess is that they'll do just fine.

Google's entry into the space gives online presentation tools much more credibility and that can only help Zenter. It's true that many users that would have used Zenter will now use Google Presentations, but now the pool of people using any online presentations tool will be much greater. So it's not a zero-sum game by any means.

Also, Google has announced that it will be released "soon" which will give Zenter plenty of motivation to beat them to the punch and launch their product.

PR, if handled right, can also help Zenter. If they are positioned in the media as the underdog with a real chance of taking on the Giant. Hopefully this will play out differently than Kiko. It all depends on how good Zenter is comparatively. Kiko didn't have much of a chance compared to Google Calendar.

I'm curious to see if Zenter will wait to release until after Google Presentations, or if they will release before. There will be the temptation to launch after GPres in order to one-up-them in features before they launch. But if they do that they will lose much of the great PR that they could get if they launched theirs first and started developing a strong initial user community.

Ask yourself, would you be more likely to blog about Zenter if they launched before GPres, or after. For me it would definitely be before. Hopefully they will consider the lesson that Odeo learned from launching right after iTunes did. Odeo has it's own problems, but it certainly destroyed their PR strategy when they missed their launch window.
Zenter is small and agile and they can probably change their product to do stuff that Google Presentations can't. I think they can do especially well by integrating into MySpace etc They can do some social stuff that google is not capable of.