> “What does that show, again? Nothing. Your argument was about 'machine learning engineers'”

Yes, the linked roles required experience with TensorFlow and other machine learning frameworks for specific job functionality focused on machine learning engineering.

Please re-read my comment above because it refutes your earlier comment, in which you claimed that jobs ads requiring combining inappropriate cross-functional skill groups while specifically also mentioning Scrum don’t exist, and offered disingenuous claims about trying to look it up, when just a cursory search already showed your claim to be wrong.

Here you are again disingenuously acting like the specific job title words are the only part that matters — that’s ridiculous. It’s obvious from the linked job ads (which were just the first ads in the list, selected just by clicking links 1, 2, etc. from the results, i.e. there are many more) are intended to function as machine learning engineers in various ways if you read the job descriptions.

In fact it seems you are again trying to dodge the problem with another No True Scotsman fallacy. Now you’re saying “no real machine learning engineer role can have a title such as xyz..”

This seems to be your go-to defense for everything. Just look at examples that clearly and unequivocally refute what you are saying, then turn around and try to claim that no “real” example would be like that. Just trying to define the outcome you want (“Scrum isn’t disempowering” or “machine learning job ads don’t require front-end skills”) by defining the premise to already have that outcome baked in (“Scrum is by definition empowering, so disempowerment only happens when not correctly doing Scrum” or “real machine learning engineer job ads don’t have other titles or list front-end technologies, so any examples which do must not be “real” examples.”)

> “If your 'machine learning engineers' have to do 'frontend development', they should look elsewhere. The topic is in high demand and there are lots of better employers which have actual 'machine learning' projects for engineers”

This just speaks to your lack of knowledge of this part of the job market, and how tons of large companies staff up on machine learning staff without anything more than a hype-driven, aspirational understanding of machine learning, and no actual statistics projects to offer the people hired. Often a hugely credentialed machine learning engineer is tasked to babysit Tableau dashboards or get added to PagerDuty for answering 2 am alerts for failed Spark jobs.

Only in very few companies and very few teams do these workers actually get approval from pointy headed managers to spend time on research or modeling at all.

Again, I’m glad for you that your experience with ML has been an incredibly unlikely, pleasant outlier with a company that magically always does Scrum “the right way” (and where Scrum is never to blame when they don’t), and where, despite all industry trends, they give good statistics and modeling projects to machine learning engineers (whose specialties are perfectly respected).

This is such a fairy tale scenario though that your experience is inapplicable to reasoning about the more general case of how Scrum itself begets and amplifies and tacitly permits all sorts of bad practices that it ought to be expected to reduce. And your experience is inapplicable to reasoning about how Scrum’s endorsement of cross-functionality is inextricably linked to the way managers assume any engineer, of any specialty, should take on cross-functional software responsibilities.

At this point I do not have confidence that you are participating in the comment thread sincerely, and you are merely attempting to shallowly gainsay whatever I say without actually looking into it.

Maybe you can’t stand not having the last word or can’t deal with it when someone refuses to not call you out on your shallow arguments, I’m not sure what the motivation is. But either way, at this point you’re cherry-picking isolated comments and then rephrasing them as repeated No True Scotsman fallacies in which no “real” example of what I describe is allowed, by definition for you, to contain the bad characteristics you seek to deny, like Scrum’s inherent flaws or the way engineers functioning in a directly machine learning capacity are often forced to also have cross-functional skills in front-end frameworks, devops, etc.

You’re welcome to have the last word if you want it in some follow up to this comment with the same cherry-picking and gainsaying.

But since I have lost confidence that you’re discussing this in good faith, and you are without sincere willingness to look into my points, I’m not going to reply again, and you’re welcome to criticize that choice of mine as well. If I thought you were being sincere instead of yet another No True Scotsman attempt to define away the problem, I would continue. I don’t believe that, so I am disengaging.