skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
I like Lisp a lot, and from my own experience I think that the main reasons why people dislike Lisp are prefix notation and parentheses.

Sure, my experience is only anecdotal and not at all large. But always I've tried to introduce someone to Lisp (I'm talking of about 5 people, none of them have converted...) they seem incapable to see further than the parenthesis and the prefix notation, but specially the parentheses.

I tried to explain them the benefits of being such a regular language, how the source code is a list which makes it really easy to do meta-programming, the power of macros, the fact that using a good text editor (Emacs + SLIME) with an excellent indentation you really don't have to care about parentheses: you follow the indentation not count parentheses!. Not to speak about the prefix notation, which they seem allergic to. But all have been in vain.

Lisp is so esthetically different from the other Algol-derived languages that it, simply, does not fit their brains, which I think is really a pity. Four of them are Perl programmers, being Perl their blub. They belive and act like there is no language better than Perl, they can do everything with perl. Whey I explain macros and metaprogramming they reply that Perl can do that with eval and strings. I've tried that and is, at least, sadomasochistic!

So, after this rant (sorry), I've to restate: the main problem people have with Lisp are parenthesis and prefix notation.

PS: Some of them also worship Microsoft and argue that Windows XP is the best operating system out there far better than Mac OS X (which none of them have tried for more than 5 minutes in a row), and that Linux is only good for severs. Some times I think that they suffer from severe brain damage, but apart from that they're pretty clever. So... it's an enigma.
It helps to think of a workflow as a domain specific language, then it becomes natural to ask yourself "which part of the system that I am building should be described using this language?". By "natural" I mean in the same way that if you were to build a parser, you'd use BNF as a domain specific language to describe it.
How do you choose what causes you support?
"If we can only truly focus on one thing at a time - one perspective, if you will - then what a pity if our calling exists outside our current frame of reference."
Ha, thanks for the complement. It's really hard not to fret about the name when you're so in love with what you're doing and what it could do for others. The original name was "Project Alix," "Alix" being the first name of the girl who owned the notebook that I scribbled the early wireframes of thesixtyone on while I was supposed to be studying for an exam.
Interesting...that's very helpful to know. Did you try memcached? I've heard Pownce has been doing just fine with Django + memcached, and they get a decent amount of traffic.
Tell me, where's the clear winner between ruby and python? Between python and PHP? Between PHP and Perl? Between OCAML and Haskell? Plenty of languages have managed to rise in popularity through a time when you didn't know if any of your code might run on the future winner. At least with Lisp implementations you know some of your code will work with the winner. "Waiting for a clear winner" is not a reason for Lisp not to grow in popularity.

Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby -- none of these emerged from the womb with a full-grown development environment. They managed to grow to the point where people wrote Eclipse plugins or what have you. Lack of a "mainstream" development environment is not a reason for Lisp not to grow in popularity.
> competition bad?

No one is saying competition is bad. The point is we don't need all our geniuses competing with PayPal---it shouldn't be that hard in the first place. Let someone else do it.

>You have very strong opinions on where other people choose to work and who should be able to hire them. It sounds like you just want a really bright person or group of people to assign all the tech grads to jobs. Similar things have been tried before, and the outcome wasn't too good.

On the contrary. I want really bright people to assign themselves in a way that isn't ridiculous.
Good link. From that I found http://www.openlayers.org/ with all sorts of good stuff.
Lisp is not unpopular (look at all the programming newbies around!), it's simply much misunderstood (like many of the high-end solutions, because its simple looking base is all but trivial...)
Instead of using Google map API, EveryBlock built their own
Intel unveils new Classmate PCs
Seen from on high
Crawling fish may be part of new family
Huge flaw in Ubuntu Dapper’s Python Crypto Module
could we just get a seth godin HN widget so that his newest blog post is always on the front page? just right underneath the orange bar will do fine.
Unless you're implying that each Lisp interpreter is its own language, I don't think your contention really applies. If I learn Lisp on Lispworks, and go sit down at GNU CLisp, I'm not programming in a different language - I'm using a different sub-set thereof. When I sit down to a Ruby program, and then switch to a PHP script - there are fundamental differences between the two languages that transcend the library or features either provides.

Ralphc's point wasn't about there being a clear winner in the dynamic language space, but that each of the languages mentioned had one canonical interpreter.
I'm going to finalize this post tonight but in the meantime I want to elucidate the main point before the discussion gets off-topic.

I was really trying to write more about the fact that the implementations and communities we have (which are often harped on) are sufficient. The problem is a lack of community formed around sharing code and building tools, libraries, etc which I feel could be solved by a module system. It's a sociological issue. My Common Lisp comment was off-the-cuff but not meant to be as judgmental as it sounded. As I've said, it's an impression but I'll write more about the later. Let's keep the focus on how to solve the problem of sharing code between lisps. That's what I see as the big thing holding lisps (of all stripes) back.
http://www.soacorp.com/traffic_control/tire_shredder.htm
an interesting idea, but i don't see how its less, in your own words, "super-gimmicky" than the rest of the music options on the web.

what do you feel will be the force driving traffic to your site?
probably good advice, I wish I could only do business with friends that are trust worthy but they aren't rich. This "real world advice"
It seems like, excepting for artificial foods like twinkies, doritos, coke, etc, there's a trend toward stronger-flavor being more nutritious. I'm thinking of coffee, broccoli, liver, chocolate, red wine, and even produce. Modern-day produce is sold by the pound and bloated with water, unless it's organic. I notice, probably because of this, organic produce has a stronger taste. I remember an NPR program discussing how, per pound, produce is less nutritious now than 50 years ago.
Whoever had downmoded my comment: please, can you explain me the rationale for such action? So I never again piss you off with, what seems to me, an in-topic comment.

Thank you very much.
I don't understand the claim that a USB wireless Internet dongle is going through this satellite. Those dongles use 3G technology and hence connect to the 3G cell phone network (if they were transmitting straight to this satellite then I should be able to get coverage everywhere... which I don't).

Now the 3G network might decide to use a satellite (although it's more likely connected to the wired PSTN), but I think the article is confusing normal 3G connections you'd get from your provider with Broadband Global Area Network services from Inmarsat which does not come as a small dongle.

http://www.inmarsat.com/Services/Land/BGAN/default.aspx
In my case, I'm working nights/weekends --- solo --- on a web application. What scares me is if I tell too many people what I'm doing, someone who can put it together faster than I can (smarter, more people, more time, whatever) and leave me in the dust will obviate my work. I don't consider that stealing. I just don't want to get beat. My idea isn't even that novel or anything - it just isn't available as I envision it.

It's a frustrating thing, too, because I think NDAs at this stage are just silly, and I need to find at least one other person to work on this with me (preferably local to DFW). But keeping my hand close to my chest is the natural defensive reaction. It's hard to get over.
At http://kosmosnimki.ru , I first tried using OpenLayers, but eventually wrote a JS slippy map from scratch. Also see http://mapnik.org , we use it too.
How the markets really work [video]
Leah Culver and the magical unicorn: A Pownce story
Why Joost will fail: It's the interface
I've been pretty impressed with Active Scaffold. I'm using it in an Admin portal I'm building for a pre-paid cell phone company and it probably saved me a month or more over rolling my own.
You may as well be vague about what you're doing till you launch. Part of the reason this is excusable is that you should launch very quickly.
most music options ignore the fact that listening to new music is usually tedious and uninviting.

it feels like work, and people simply move on, especially when you consider that most already know what they want.

so the big problem for emerging artists is how you get those first plays from people who aren't your friends or family. our approach may seem lighthearted and overly-friendly for such a serious problem, but that's what we're finding works best when introducing new music to new audiences.

interesting fact: avg. listener spends more than 15 hours/week listening to new music on thesixtyone.
The SQLAlchemy branch was intended to seamlessly integrate with the model api - in other words you needn't know it was there. I don't think it got too far.

Form validation is not tied to the Django ORM.
Ask YC: Is the site slow or is it just me?
Is the slow or is it just me?
DDoS attacks account for 1-3% of total internet traffic
Study: 'Influencers' Possess Less Clout Than Friends
"Other activities that deplete willpower include resisting food or drink, suppressing emotional responses, restraining aggressive or sexual impulses, taking exams and trying to impress someone."

Can't for the life of me think why you'd want to do any of those things. Gotta have some fun somewhere ...
The great inflation cover-up
As soon as you've got something started, with a decent amount built, I would start spreading the word. Think about it this way, once you've started, even if you tell someone intent on stealing all ideas that come their way, you'll be ahead of them. You can be first.

The only issue now is that someone will come out with something better, which is always a threat no matter what stage you're in.

Another way to look at it is like this: As soon as you've got a company started, tell everyone, and tell them what need you're going to fill. You don't necessarily have to tell them how you plan on doing it, but let them know it's going to be done. If you're working on a way for people to sort and manage email overload, tell them. You don't have to tell them "We're using x algorithm to reduce emails and change the way people view the traditional inbox."

Bottom line, sell the value as soon as you can, and sell the method as soon as you have something.
That's funny, because when I was going through the newforms code, it had a lot of ties to the ORM.
If you are inclined to start from basics, you might want to try this tutorial: http://pythonpaste.org/do-it-yourself-framework.html
I'm in a similar situation and have the same concern. I've told friends about the idea and gotten them to try out the prototype, but I haven't done anything more.

Keeping the idea close is partly out of concern that someone with better timing will run with it, but also that I don't want to write about how cool it is until it's stable and complete enough for a public release.

As an aside, am also looking for hackers to join forces with, but in Austin for the fall.
The site was slow. I restarted the server, and it seems to be faster now.

We're trying to figure out what the cause of the problem is. It could be simply that we've crossed the threshold of traffic that our hardware/sw can comfortably handle, in which case we need to find and fix whatever the current bottleneck is.

Or it could be that something changed. We're getting requests in a new pattern. More anon.
Techcrunch50 (proof that profit wins out) ...

it was TC20, (then moved to TC40) then added a demo (pay for play) pit, then added sponsors.

Im sure Mcdonalds thinks Wendy's should die.
Mark Cuban's Rules For Startups
Heh, they forgot my two favorite:

twit.el - Twitter from emacs

Jott.com - you can call them, record a Jott to Twitter, and it will be transcribed and posted.
Any "shit, this is cool"-kind of mobile startups?
There are many trying, but anything you guys tested out and really thought, "shit, this is cool"?
I agree. I would not read those scanned pages for very long, and I certainly can't visual scan the huge pages to find where my search term appears.

When I zoom in, it looks like the bitmap is over compressed with a DCT. There is quite a bit of edge ringing. Perhaps he scanned it better and just mutilated it in the PDF conversion.
You probably stepped on the toes of someone who likes Perl and Windows. Particularly, you mentioned Mac OS which some people have an inexplicable antithesis towards. You're playing with fire, my friend ;) Downmods are the least of your worries now.
The best retort to the parenthesis complaint is: "I like to ask people who complain about parentheses in Lisp if they are bothered by all the spaces between words in a newspaper." (http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2008/02/what-hell-is-fortu...)
Shared Data Considered Harmful
While you're in "stealth mode" you're losing valuable opportunities to get feedback on the execution of your idea. Since execution is so much more important than an idea alone, I don't see value in being stealthy at any stage.
I don't understand the syntax complaint: it is simple to learn, and with few exceptions, applies in all cases.

Other language syntax (C or Erlang, e.g.) is arbitrary and tedious by comparison.
"In other news today, the value of pi was rounded up to 4 in new copyright legislation sponsored by the RIAA. This will also prevent terrorist groups communicating via mathematical functions."
Transparent PNGs Can Deadlock IE6
IPhone PwnageTool for Mac goes live. Handy if you haven't yet been accept in the iPhone Dev program.
pg would have said, "Don't worry about how you will make money out of this. Worry about making something that people want first." Shame, shame, shame.
Ask YC: How to build a community online at a college?
I am currently attending a University that has no real online community, and I think this is a "bad thing." Universities are supposed to be about sharing of ideas, and collaborating and expanding your ideas with the help of others. I am curious how you all would go about trying to build a community online for my school. Presumably something close to a wiki/forum, but with a focus on education? Or should it be more of a free-form discussion, and try and get people to come out of pure chance. This is very similar to a startup, and building a community around one, but presumably the community is already there in some form, it just needs to be brought online. Anyone have any advice on how to go about achieving this?
Just to contradict most of the comments in this thread, a longer stealth period lessens the chances of this happening:

"The Marimba Phenomenon ... everybody checks out your code, and it's not good yet. These people will be permanently convinced that your code is simple and inadequate, even if you improve it drastically later."

(http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2005/11/02.html)
Your first hire will have to be a veteran Microsoft sales rep.

"In order to further enhance the exciting new features of PIrated MSOffice 2020, we've had to push the shipment date back by 2e15 age-of-the-universe units. But, rest assured, it will be worth the wait."
Where am I going to sell my startup now?!
I think your hatred for Perl is unfair. Yes, eval and strings is a terrible substitute for macros. Only an idiot would pretend otherwise. But 90% of the time, the other tools we do have available (first-class functions, everything internal being dynamic) lets us get by.

For example, a few months ago I was working on a blog post about how nice it would be if Perl had macros. I had a perfect example picked out, but I decieded to try an implement it without macros. It ended up working perfectly.

The docs explain the original problem, and my solution:
http://search.cpan.org/~jrockway/Context-Preserve-0.01/lib/C...

Also, if you read your friendly local CLOS implementation, you will notice a lot of macros. Moose is a CLOS-alike for Perl, and it obviously didn't need macros. (Actually, I would like to port Moose to Lisp, 'cause it's much more sugary than CLOS, and it has traits. Mixins FTL.)

Anyway, Perl is nearly as good as lisp, so be careful when choosing your examples. (Incidentally, I am currently working on a lisp variant that compiles to Perl, because I like lisp syntax better than Perl syntax, but I like Perl's CPAN and regex engine.)
I suspect the events in "Dreaming in Code" describe many start-ups.
It's not "syntax," it's human parseability. Lisp is hard to parse because humans don't think in lists. Some people are smart enough or naturally able to overcome that obstacle, but most aren't.
Subliminal Creativity, Courtesy of Apple
I think the problem Lisp has is that very few people are forced to use it. If you look at the average programmer, he doesn't want to think about programming, he just wants to press keys an go home. So a language that requires you to think instead of type is not something that he is going to flock to.

I think the sad reality is that most programmers aren't very smart, so smart languages will never become popular.

I'm not sure why it matters though, there are plenty of CL libraries (and jobs), so if you like lisp you can get by just fine.
What's the misunderstanding exactly?
Recession Can Be Breeding Ground for Next Big Idea
"Unpopular" needs to be further qualified. Rather than ask, "Why is Lisp unpopular?", ask, "Why is Lisp unpopular for X?". Lisp is actually reasonably popular for some things, and it's those things to which existing dialects are best adapted. Being well adapted to Y often means not being especially well adapted to X, even if it's for subtle reasons.

It's like asking, "Why are Arctic foxes (Alopex lagopus) not very popular on the African savanna?" Because they didn't evolve in response to the demands of that environment. The bat-eared fox, Otocyon megalotis, did.

The differences between Alopex and Otocyon aren't so massive that they seem like totally different kinds of animals. But it would be tricky to predict exactly what they should be, and develop the right kind of fox in a lab. Some adaptations are obvious (thick fur), other less so (specialized circulatory system). I suspect the same is true for programming languages. It's tricky to determine exactly what makes Scheme better suited to the classroom than to developing general applications. Perhaps the best way to solve the problem is the way PG is doing it with Arc, which is to take a very young, malleable dialect of Lisp and plunk it down in the environment to which you want it to become well adapted, and then continue development in response to the demands you encounter.
>You're looking at a picture of a single circuit the size of a large office building, built to a precision of 100 microns. I agree that this is impressive, but remember that you get to cheat: You build the thing, measure how far off you are, and stick delay lines in the short branches until everything lines up.

they call that Agile Microwave Engineering

oh, and you must have two microwave engineers working on each delay line.
My understanding is that Joost will fail because the developers can't get along with anybody including one another, geniuses though they may be.
Why, b/c they big companies don't innovate ...they litigate. Makes me cringe.
You should put your general idea out in public as soon as you have it - you'll get feedback, reality checks, and hopefully encouragement. Oftentimes, suggestions won't be directly relevant, but will point you to additional areas you should study to gain a better perspective on what you're doing. And if nobody cares or understands what you're doing, it's probably a sign that you should pick a new idea.

You should keep the specifics secret until you have something to show. This is more to ward off the "Chandler phenomenon" (where you raise unrealistic expectations which suck all the fun out of development) than to ward off the "Facebook phenomenon" (where somebody steals your idea and runs with it). In my experience, the Chandler phenomenon kills many more startups. You don't really want to be in a position where you've told people your startup will do X, Y, and Z, and then find that X is useless, Y is unusable, and Z is technologically impossible.
Noise != usage. Don't confuse attention with popularity. I think about the language and post comments about it on forums and read great Lisp code (e.g. Arc), but I'd never actually use it for anything non-trivial. Why? Because I write web apps and existing Lisps don't make that easier or more fun.

The only (!) thing Lisp has to do is efficiently and absolutely abstract away XML, CSS, and JavaScript. No Lisp is going to get any uptake otherwise. We could do this with Arc.
facebook and twitter

one thing you could do is recreate the twitterati section at alltop but with twitterers from your school and then put up flyers about it in the cs building
Another problem that LISP had was the era of it's widest use -- an era when compilers and most programming tools were proprietary, very expensive, entirely closed and usually dependent on one or another variant hardware platform. This was also the pre-cambrian era of computer architecture where the hardware varied so much that porting was a serious issue. Nowadays, languages which have popped into existance and gained wide acceptance (perl, ruby, python, for example) were developed in an open-source world. And now, finally, lisp is catching up in that regard.
What makes Lisp a "smart" language?
Dell CEO Says to Expect More Job Cuts
This is amazing. I looked at the underpinnings they used and it's the exact stack of tools I had given up on when Google Maps was released and began expanding in 2005 or so.

These guys followed through and the result is amazing. Their reasons for using the tools that they chose are exactly why it was so goddamned hard for me to do what I wanted to do with gmaps, but at the same time, I didn't have the spare cycles to do it with Ka-Map! or similar.

Brilliant execution.
Walk around handing out $100 bills?

That is not how I would want to be appreciated, as an employee. It would make me feel even more of a mental prostitute. If I loved my job and was being compensated fairly, how would a few hundred bucks help me.

I'm nitpicking though, since I do agree with the point of making it fun for employees. Just don't disrespect them in the process.