skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
For all the people who are warning of a slippery slope or a chilling effect, where do we draw a line? This site along with others like it likely helped spur a person on to murder a few days ago. This site along with other like it celebrated that murder. This site along with other like are organizing protests at that murder victim's funeral. How in good conscience can you be an accomplice in spreading that message?
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I'm interested in this as well. I found Hepito https://www.heptio.com/support-services-and-training
When I first clicked on the discussion link, there were two comments. I also took a break to go to the restroom before I submitted my comment. I'm sorry that I wasn't quick enough for you.

> unilaterally

Happy now?

Did you actually want to discuss/argue with my comment or just criticize the way I worded it?
So much for believing in "due process".
Are you insinuating that the many commenters here might have differing even - dare I say - contradictory opinions?
There will always be companies that care more about making a buck than anything else. For years spammers and malware authors have been able to find hosting without issue, and taking them down has been a serious pain in the ass. All these nazis need to do is rent a server in russia (where they've moved their name server) and they will be fine.

The idea that companies like Cloudflare should help support sites like this is nonsensical. The slippery slope argument is an awful fallacy and ignores the fact that we can't even get content most of the world agrees is bad (child porn, active malware exploits, spammers) offline.
> My opinion may be unpopular, however. I'm one of those folks that believe that everyone, equally, deserves to be able to express their thoughts, beliefs, and beliefs regardless of whether I agree with them.

You may want to read this comment of mine I put in a thread that probably won't get seen much because it's not intellectually stimulating enough, or something: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15032018

I'll add a quote from a White Rose leaflet:

> Do not hide your cowardice under the cloak of cleverness!

http://white-rose-studies.org/Leaflet_3.html
Why did you switch away from Fastmail? I'm there.
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It seems pretty obvious that all this hand-wringing over a little known site called The Daily Stormer has raised its profile worldwide far beyond their wildest dreams. This is likely causing the opposite effect of what activists want.
I don't think that's true. Cloudflare is just the most visible option at the moment, and probably (one of) the most cost effective.
Well, the Supreme Court and the law of the land disagrees with you.
Ah yes, the concept of "anticipated reproach", where seeing someone do something that you deep down know you should do triggers a defense mechanism that makes you dislike them.

It's pretty easy to spot in people, and I go out of my way to avoid people that are that morally and intellectually stunted, so that may contribute to me seeing less of this reaction.
Also on sort of related note, this is why I disparage the "cake baking" and "wedding flowers" lawsuits... While I don't care what two adults do in the bedroom, I do care that a private business could be forced to render services. What if Mike Pence becomes president and uses the precedent set by these lawsuits to justify the passage of his version of Christianity into law? I think these issues are better left unturned; in this case, CloudFlare was able to take the right action and terminate their account without having to think about a lot of legal precedent.
If you label "not amplifying someone" as censorship, then there is obviously no such thing as uncensored free speech for everyone. The question then becomes who you step up to defend, and who you quietly ignore, when someone gets amplified over them.
>The natural question from this is: how long until this type of power is used against views you support?

I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I support free speech, even when the speech is hateful and malignant, because I honestly believe the best way to combat vile ideas is out in the open where people can see them, hear them, discuss them and repudiate them. Cultures can't innoculate themselves against ideas without an intellectual herd immunity, and that is impossible without mass exposure.

On the other hand, fuck Nazis.

I think I'm quite willing to let them come for the Nazis then start caring when they come for the Socialists and Trade Unionists, etc. If that makes me a hypocrite, so be it.

Of course, on the third hand, I have no real power over anyone else's speech, and I'm just some rando on the internet, so it doesn't really matter what I think.
How hard (and how realistic) it is to actually get a reasonable understanding (and then stay up-to-date) with Kubernetes internals? Is there any go-to reading material?

We had ran another large-footprint container management system (not K8s, but also popular), and when its DNS component started to eat all the CPU on all nodes, best I was able to do fast,was just scrapping the whole thing and quickly replacing it with some quick-and-dirty Compose files and manual networking. At least, we were back to normal in an hour or so. Obvious steps (recreating nodes) failed, logs looked perfectly normal, quick strace/ltrace gave no insights, and trying to debug the problem in detail would've taken more time.

But that was only possible because all we ran was small 2.5-node system, not even a proper full HA or anything. And it had resembled Compose close enough.

Since then I'm really wary about using larger black boxes for critical parts. Just Linux kernel and Docker can bring enough headache, and K8s on top of this looks terrifying. Simplicity has value. GitHub can afford to deal with a lot of complexity, but a tiny startup probably can't.

Or am I just unnecessarily scaring myself?
Censorship is merely deciding what ideas you will or will not participate in promoting; protecting the right to do that is the heart of the ideal of free speech.

Government censorship—having public authority (whether officially styled as the state or one having exercising a monopoly on essential tools of communication) decide for you what ideas you must or must not promote, regardless of your own desire—is what “free speech” stands against.
The situation in WW2 wasn't any better then WW1.

If you think the roads in your town are poorly maintained, take a look at this example of Rasputitsa in the USSR. [1]

Yes, the people in the photographs are trying to pull that car down the road. Yes, that is indeed a road.

Soviet railroad gauges being incompatible with European rail gauges also did little to help German logistics. And later in the war, due to fuel shortages, more and more axis machinery had to be transported by draft-horse.

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Bundesar...
Uh yea, isn't that the entirety of the product? What is the "something different" that you're imagining?
It is not decision tree or any machine learning algorithm.

It is a local search algorithm that probably has simulated annealing or tabu search as a metaheuristic.

Although, they probably segment the deliveries to some common starting points and the problem size is reduced significantly - maybe to around thousand orders per starting point.

Research can easily optimize thousands of deliveries very effectively.
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My point is that Snapchat isn't a good example of a company pushed out by anti-competitive practices. Their core product is technically trivial and uninteresting. The fact that there is a market demand for it and being first to do it at large scale doesn't in my mind meet any minimal standard for protection from anti-competitive practices as you imply.
It's always better to appease Nazis. Society should take a long hard look at itself for not allowing Hitler free speech and to fully express his views.
It's so bizarre. He tries to have it both ways. He says "no one should have that power", but then says he did it literally earlier that day. He says CloudFlare isn't changing their "content-neutral" policy... but clearly they did change that policy.

I have many reasons to oppose nazis, including incredibly personal ones. That said, I think crossing this content line for an infrastructure company is a big deal, and I hope it's not repeated.
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> Free speech does not mean a company has to take part in spreading it :).

Yes and no, that's why phone companies or internet providers are regulated in a certain fashion, so they can't deny you certain basic services.

Imagine you are a controversial figure and all phone companies conspire to deny you a phone number just because they don't like what you say. Or all postal services refuse to deliver your mails. So some line of businesses are deemed of public utility despite being private and have to follow certain regulations.
No luck on iOS. Not sure if it claims to be supported.
Sunlight in this case would be doing for Nazis what they themselves won't do because they're unable -- recognize them for who they are and act accordingly.

> In the echo chamber of extremism, there is now no moderating thought

This is not how any of this works.
If you honestly think that the rest of the world is only now hearing about the Daily Stormer, then you must have a very plush rock that you've been living under. I assure you that many, many others have not had that particular luxury.
Regardless of the morality, weirdness or absurdness, that ship has sailed. Many, many groups only use facebook, and if you want to be a part of them, you have to as well.

I agree it is suboptimal, and whether or not it is worth the tradeoff is an individual decision, but that is the world we live in.

The group level is where most of the rubber meets the road here.
His point is that with the amount of DDoS power available out there to various parties, without a major ISP or CDN hosting your content you can trivially be booted off the internet. Once you accept that as a given, if one of the major ISP or CDN networks won't host your content, then you're open to censorship from anyone who doesn't like your message, which if your controversial enough that the ISPs and CDNs won't host you it's probably a given that someone is going to want to DDoS you out of existence. To further complicate things, most small ISPs when faced with a substantial and prolonged DDoS of one of the clients, will terminate that client in order to preserve service to their other clients, which means once again if you aren't being fronted by a major ISP or CDN will likely mean you'll be hoping from ISP to ISP until eventually nobody will be willing to host your content.
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What's after piracy?
FreeSWITCH can do this in mod_conference using OpenAL, its pretty sweet.
Adbusters 1999 "the product is you" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xtAX0HfsBtk
If you feel the need to make such a long post about it, perhaps it was a bad decision?

Perhaps a statement that you did not support them in their ideals would have suited both the situation and your minds.

I've always felt like Cloudflare was one of the better leading internet companies, especially because of their neutrality towards their customers.

This is kind of a downer.
There also companies (like the one I moved to recently) that are old, established SME (small/medium enterprises - more medium in my case) who are in niches that just aren't large enough for off the shelf to work but not small enough to do without.

I was talking to my boss the other day and he said that I was pretty modest compared to some of the programmers he'd dealt with at out sourcing firms over the years (they tried that first, it didn't end well), I think my response tickled him "I'm just a negative plumber with a keyboard, if I do my job right at this end shit doesn't come out the other".

I think the hubris of "We must do world changing things/disrupt everything" to provide tangible value is a by-product of the hype around the startup scene and 'entrepreneurs' (that is people who set out to be an entrepreneur first and figure out at what later).

I've never wanted that, I've only ever wanted to be compensated decently and work at a job where I can see measurable value in what I do, in my case that's writing production/factory management software that saves more money than it costs and makes the life of the end users more pleasant, it's also not particularly stressful and I go in at 9 and leave at 5 every day with complete technical freedom and time for that rarest of rare things, documentation.

After spending the last 5 years in high pressure, insane demand environments I'm never going back, I'll go do something else before I go back to that, it's simply not worth it (to me).
This is again an argument that the tradeoff is worth it, not that it is easy.

Trade that off if you like, not not everyone does.
I don't think that's fair.
Some of us work very hard for a living or have kids.
I just learned about the Daily Stormer, this weekend.

EDIT: on second thought, I wonder if this is what Daily Stormer wanted all along. They have raised their profile enormously now.
I hope a civil lawsuit advances this conversation much faster than the Cloudflare CEO can.
Yes, speech and expression has consequences. The reactionary service provider likely faces consequences too.

A court could easily side with the "abhorrent neo-nazis" if DDOSing raises their bills and Cloudflare's adhoc policy was the culprit, no matter what arbitration clause was written in their contract, and put the damages on Cloudflare.
I'm really confused, have all the grown-ups returned to HN? Suddenly after several years of self-congratulatory virtue-signalling, HN realizes that self-righteousness censorship is not risk-free, and has long-term consequences? I'm glad I started coming back to HN. Maybe the long recess from reason is over.
Much like free speech due process concerns citizens and their government rather than people and any public organization.
> Freedom of speech is rarely the speech we agree with.

Speech that the majority agrees with has no need to be protected. Even North Korea will let you agree as much as you want with the party line.
To be clear this is not my position. I'm not sure what I think on this subject. But this is the reason why Nazi symbols are illegal in some other countries.
Couldn't he face personal liability in a civil lawsuit for monetary damages? Like if Daily Stormtrooper's hosting costs go up in a DDOS
› if Google doesn't like a website, it can derank it

If Google actually does that, they're asking for an anti-trust suit.
Hello everyone, thanks for checking out the new repository. I've resolved the CDN link issues, but feel free to file any more issues at https://github.com/Google/songbird/issues. Looking forward to seeing all the great stuff you all make with it. :)
> If the Rock Tamer, really didn’t want anyone to mess around with his rocks, he would’ve done:

> # chattr +i /home/user/left-shoe/little-rock

Or more traditionally, chmod +t /home/user/left-shoe

though that would affect other files.
Teaching isn't "notoriously left wing". Half the popular schools out there are religious schools and place a stronger bias on religious dogma than any left wing educator would be comfortable with.

But it is pretty clear your stance on this is pretty far right so anything is going to seem too left wing for your liking. Case in point: you read the Daily Mail and Christian publications and take them at face value. If the issues were are prevalent as you pretend then you wouldn't be scraping the barrel with 5 year old reports in papers that have a terrible reputation for inaccuracies.

Anyhow, I said before that I didn't really want to get drawn into a debate about education - I have to endure enough ranting about it from my wife each night - so this is the last I'm going to say on the subject.
As long as it's written in Go, Rust or formerly Haskell
It's easy to defend the speech of those which you agree or, at the very least, don't vehemently disagree with.

With increased calls for Internet access to be a human right and for Internet providers to be treated as common carriers, the arbitrary punishment of lawful-yet-distasteful speech should be considered almost as repellent as the Daily Stormer.

Yet here we are. And down the slope we continue to go.
I would estimate at most 10% of my Facebook friends have the same email address today that they had on the day we connected.
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Price isn't the only issue; speed has to be considered as well. If you have a program, and it only uses a small amount of memory, it'll fit into the cache and run fast. If you have a program that uses many times more memory than the cache can hold, it'll run slow. No matter how cheap RAM is, the cache is still going to be fixed to a small size.
It's weird he used Zuckerburg and Jobs as archetypal examples and then said

> Be especially wary if there's a trail of people who've worked with the founder in the past, and have felt screwed over.

I feel like I don't even have to elaborate on why this is contradictory.
Wow that's neat, thanks for sharing!
yes .. but! we also simply need a better form of currency.

While bitcoin has its implementation issues and politics, it solves that problem in a way that wasn't solved before.

A better token for Cash is incredibly valuable in and of itself.. dare I say it revolutionary.

[ I say "largely solves", because a) small blocksize and data management issues are preventing it from scaling now and in the medium term and b) a linear blockchain might not scale beyond every user on the planet buying coffee... or it might, we haven't really begun to optimize it, imo ]
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Indeed.

--x in the context of directories is typically called "search" permission rather than execute.
Cloudfare used to market itself not too long ago ago as an entity that didn't censor speech. I guess things have changed.

“A website is speech. It is not a bomb,” Cloudflare’s CEO Matthew Prince wrote in a 2013 blog post defending his company’s stance. “There is no imminent danger it creates and no provider has an affirmative obligation to monitor and make determinations about the theoretically harmful nature of speech a site may contain.”

https://www.propublica.org/article/service-provider-boots-ha...
Hi!

Songbird renders stereo-out using Omnitone internally, so Android/mobile is certainly supported. Feel free to file any issues you have at https://github.com/Google/songbird/issues.

Cheers,
Drew
"the team behind Daily Stormer made the claim that we were secretly supporters of their ideology"

What does this have to do with the termination?
Even when one explicitly calls it out as something they believe in?
It isn't just moving your finger an inch. It's contacting you differently than they contact literally every one else in their social circle.

And thanks for the incredible insight into who is my friend and who isn't. Your ability to judge from several paragraphs of my writing and nothing more is pretty impressive.

The things I missed weren't really, my friends exactly, but rather broad groups with common interests.

If one doesn't hang out where everyone else does, you can't expect people to invite you when they look at each other and say, "Let's go somewhere."
I mean, the networking infrastructure carried that message. The people who manufactured the murder weapon assisted the murder goals.

The point is that we have a legal process to deal with murder. If we wanted to suppress the message glorifying it and encouraging it, we should do that directly, and take down the site through legal due process. Going after infrastructure is the wrong solution when you should be confronting problems directly. And if you don't want to confront it directly (ie, maybe the site is protected by free speech laws that we don't want to revoke)... whats the point of those free speech protecting laws if they just end up being subverted through a different avenue, and one that does not have to follow the process and regulation of the law at that?
Not to mention that they'd wouldn't be secure and reliable just from removing Intel ME
> Don't try to market yourself as critical Internet infrastructure if you're going to throw your principals away because someone made you feel icky.

When the internet is no longer privatized and is guaranteed as a public service by law, then this argument will have a leg to stand on.

We've taken it for granted for a long time that the folks at the top of the data food chain are benevolent despots. This is a belief that is ultimately not rational.

Maintaining an internet made of actors who are ultimately private corporations providing a service enables these decisions.

The thing is, I suspect if we made the internet a public service in each country, then its speech laws would actually be substantially more restrictive than what CF, Google and others are doing.

Case in point:

> The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways.

Yeah. Although sideways? Let's not forget that an horrific act of fatal violence branded as domestic terrorism that was specifically targeted at suppressing free speech to further a regime of racially motivated violence and hate. Daily Stormer put up 2 distinct articles arguing this was okay. They then defamed a private organization by claiming they too supported that vile sentiment.

I mean, don't get me wrong. DDoS gangs are extortionists. But at the end of the day money is just money. Human rights are fundamental.
"from what we understand most of AIMatter’s employees will come onboard to Google"

For some reason that i can't fully articulate, and if you want to pedant me on this with a more specific framing then go ahead, but this is very impressive to me and points to the value of the AIMatter team. If 10-30% of people that make it to Google onsites are then approved, what are the odds of finding a group of people who would all pass the process? Quite low and points the value of the team
Lawyers whacking at digital hydras.
Betteridge has our back, we're good to go.
I didn't mean to imply that both can't be done at the same time. I thought you meant that diversity programs were an inherent part of finding the best talent when you wrote

> "It's Google's perogative/obligation to find and retain the best talent. I suspect that's what the purpose of their diversity programs are for."

To me this meant that to find the best talent it's more effective to focus on subsets of the total talent pool, which didn't make sense to me.
That doesn't demonstrate that the greater tree growth itself causes (or contributes to) added remediation; it could have been the bacteria added to the soil itself, or the presence of the grove as a whole, etc.
The issue is that I am ready to pay several times what I currently pay Netflix in order to get access to a full library of movies and series (so something where content is added all the time and never removed).

However, I am not at all ready to pay that sum to 4 or 5 services.

Sadly, savage download seems to be the most convenient option.
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