skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
Slippery slope is not a fallacy. It's a real phenomenon in certain cases. It does, however, have to be proved relevant to any given question, which is GP's real offense.
Ask HN: Allowance for kids?
For those of you with children, what is your approach to allowance? The three common approaches are having a regular allowance, tying it to chores, or no allowance at all. That said, there can be huge variations once you get into the details. I'd love to hear how you help (or helped!) your kids grow into financially responsible adults.

If you yourself had an allowance structure set up when you were growing up that you think had positive impact, would love to hear about it as well.
> Infrastructure companies should not need to police all their services. Heck, they shouldn't police their services. That is what real police and courts are for.

I'm agreed that they shouldn't need to, but not that they shouldn't at all. Making these sorts of companies on the hook for things their customers do would make it impossible to run a company like this at all.

But remember, companies are made up of people. Those people have values and, with those values, make moral judgments -- and it is entirely within their right to do so. In the majority of cases I would hope that most people would choose to be content-neutral, but I absolutely expect and support that some people will eventually hit a threshold where they cannot look the other way anymore. And, in general, I think that's _absolutely ok_.
Meh... Reading the article I got more of a Miller test vibe, where apparently using their services with "claims of secret support" wasn't as acceptable as they assumed.
> At what point is it acceptable to ban unpopular political speech, provided that speech is not a direct incitement to riot/violence?

Nobody is banning Nazi speech in America. Private citizens are just saying they don't want to be part of it. As many others have said, the Daily Stormer will find name servers and hosting partners in the same part of the Internet that brings up spam and scam.
thats the complete rebuttal? I could see a judge granting summary judgement in favor of Daily Stormer before Cloudflare even gets around to responding.
21 ppl upvoted my comment at the top.
Software engineering reinvents everything every decade or so. People were complaining about it 20 years ago - I suspect they have from the beginning. Not only new languages, also new hardware and new platforms in general. Moore's law seemed to be the driver, but the constant growth means constant new people... unlike scientific paradigms, we needn't wait for old practitioners to die.

BTW is "stills" a typo for something? (shims?)
The Turing Tumble looks like a fun computer emulator toy:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/871405126/turing-tumble...
To respond to the ">90%" figure...

Miners are not contractually bound to follow any of these agreements. Usually, if they say they will support a fork, it comes with many caveats, e.g., if it seems that there is substantial enough support among users, companies, developers, and hashpower-minority miners.
Due process? For what? It's a private company, deciding to terminate the contract with a shitty customer that is ruining their image. Worst case scenario the Nazis might have a case for breach of contract, but they won't get much out of it. Also, I'd love to see them show up in court to try to defend this as a "freedom of speech" case, and get told what a bunch of abhorrent human beings they are and to GTFO.
You know, I was going to spit venom back, discussing the European in fighting and greed post WWI for putting those goose stepping morons in a place where normal people thought they held the answers. But, if you can't be trusted to listen to why the Nazis were put into power and not skip to the atrocities, why would I think you'd understand why our politic and society is the way it is.
Some people see that as a feature - a deflationary rare resource, which a government can't simply print more of.

If I just want to send funds from A to B, the current value of bitcoin in fiat [ USD / GBP / JPY ] is less important than being able to exchange it for the local fiat at each end.

If I hold those funds for a while at B - your absolutely right, extreme volatility is a concern. I would argue that as more people use bitcoin the volatility will go down [ large trades will be able to move the market far less, as the market will be so much larger ]
> It is cheaper to develop a .Net app than a C app. Cheaper in Development and maintenance.

I think this is true but I disagree that it's inherently true. Slapping a UI together with c and GTK is pretty strait forward for instance, here is a todo list where I did just that (https://gitlab.com/flukus/gtk-todo/blob/master/main.c). It's not a big example, but building the UI and wiring the events was only 40 lines of code, it's the most straightforward way I've every built a UI. More complicated things like displaying data from a database are harder, but I think this comes down to the libraries/tooling, the .net community has invested much more time in improving these things than the c community.

> What we're losing in efficiency, we gain in code readability, maintainability, safety, time to market, etc.

I don't think we've exhausted our options to have both. We can build things like DSL's that transform data definitions into fast and safe c code for instance. Imagine instead of something like dapper/EF doing runtime reflection we could build equivalent tools that are just as easy to use but do the work at compile time. Or we could do it via rusts kickass compile time meta programming.
Yea I agree. It's really weird that white supremacists are 'literally nazis' in the eyes of many Americans. Did the meaning of that word change recently?
My wording was excessively, and for that I apologize. However, my point was more that not everyone has the same freedom to be unaware of Daily Stormer. In much the same way that childless people have the luxury to be unaware of which schools in their neighborhood are good ones, populations regularly targeted by Daily Stormer have been aware of their rising influence for years.
It might be a canonical concept, but it's not encoded in law.
Anything seriously missing, or more bells and whistles?
How much have you made since March with bitcoin?
That wiki page is not independent evidence, as it is maintained by luke-jr (a Blockstream employee and borderline radical Segwit2x opponent) and hosted by Theymos, the guy who enforces strict censorship on the largest Bitcoin forums. Please cite a more independent source.
It is mainstream. Bayesianism and Frequentism are the co-existing major branches of the field of statistics.

It's like asking what kind of reputation hydrodynamics has among mainstream physics :-p.
> there's something to be said about why he added the biology component to his argument that wasn't necessary and simply distracted from the core argument. I would simply say that if he had cut that portion out, the conversation that is happening right now might become more productive and focused on hiring practices outside of Google.

I'm not sure I agree. First of all, the article by Scott Alexander referenced in this post makes mostly the same arguments, and the post praises its content for being better presented. I can't tell much of a difference in presentation; certainly not one that justifies praise for Alexander and crucifixion for Damore. Secondly, 99% of Damore's critics are outraged about things he never remotely said; it was only after their accusations were thoroughly debunked that they shifted their criticism to his presentation. I seriously doubt any of the outrage is sincere; it seems far more likely that Damore made a suitable target for folks projecting their insecurities or even their legitimate victim experiences.
You asked to name a country that ended up worse. Since we are not at the end of history, the only consistent way to interpret "ended up" is "in its state as of the time of this statement."

edit: My above interpretation isn't quite right. It should be "its state as of the latest known point in time the predicate was true."
Their right: are they prevented from speaking, and using whatever resources they have to write.

Their ability: do they have the tools they would like to have (and that others might own) to communicate effectively.
Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like

How about the test being whether they are waving the Nazi flag? That's pretty unambiguous.
> if anyone wants to organize a plan that has more than 8 people, facebook groups make it much much easier.

So, there is this thing which a little old: emails. It is wonderful to organize things. For group chats you also have some old shit like IRC. You get your beloved hashtag too.
> Note NASA controlled the moon missions with an IBM 360/95 that had something like 5 MB of RAM, 1GB of disk, and about 6 million instructions per second.

And an army of technicians available around the clock to keep it working. Whereas your IoT light 'just works' and isn't expected to require any support at all.
Very much on your side I think would be the fact that virtually no one reads them and millions of them are clicked/signed per day. This isn't just a just a case of you not reading a contract you knew you wanted to violate, but you engaging in a very standard practice, known to the companies themselves and everyone else.

The fiction of terms of services only exists so long as they go unchallenged in any major sense.
I'm obviously being a bit facetious when I say this, but are there really few things worse than nazis? I'm not expert on the subject of neo-nazis or the nazi movement, so maybe this seems more complex because of my position of ignorance. But none of the statistics seem to imply that nazis are more than simply intellectually repulsive and socially disgusting. That's not to say that nazi affiliated groups never commit crime or kill people. But by the numbers they seem like a very small blip on the crime radar compared to groups like the Sinaloa, MS-13, ISIS, Boko Haram, or the Lord's Resistance Army.

I realize the significance of what the nazis accomplished in the past. But there are actual talks about further restricting freedom of speech in America being put forth by some groups because of the attention that's being given to white supremacists and nazis right now with seemingly little attention being given to identifying and quantifying the reach and influence these groups actually have in the modern context.
I guess you haven't had a chance to go check their website. Maybe you should, before you spend too much time trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. These people are self-declared Nazis, and they do fantasize about killing all kinds of minorities.
U.S. Begins Nafta Negotiations with Harsh Words
This is excellent context to have. Thank you for providing it.
That is possible, but far from known. toomuchtodo is trying to make the most accurate assessment possible based from apparent facts.
Because it is pretty rare for a judge to side with a consumer who states they would like the judge to force the company to do business with them.

Neo Nazis are not a protected class in the sense of the word so they'd have to pull some kind of legal rabbit out of their head to make that work.

The fact that there are damages does not immediately imply that some outside party is liable for those damages. It merely means that you are back where you would have been without that outside party.

So even if Cloudflare caused this that does not immediately imply liability. So if the Daily Stormer wishes to sue Cloudflare they obviously can but I really doubt they will make it stick.
Because of this sentence from Cloudflare's Terms of Service:

"You further agree that if...Cloudflare, in its sole discretion, deems it necessary due to excessive burden or potential adverse impact on Cloudflare’s systems, potential adverse impact on other users, server processing power, server memory, abuse controls, or other reasons, Cloudflare may suspend or terminate your account without notice to or liability to you" [1].

If you don't want that kind of a service relationship, you negotiate a fixed-term contract up front.

[1] https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/ Section 10; also see § 15 (Termination)
It's a gas law, as software expands to fill the available hardware. If it can reach a minimal standard with less work, a smaller budget is allocated.
I minute reading ToS won't give you any worthy information.
The way I look at it is, assuming you don't hold a monopoly on a particular service, you can choose not to do business with certain people, for whatever (legal) reason.

However, it cuts both ways: your other customers also have the option to boycott you and encourage other people to do the same.

And if every business decides to stop doing business with certain people, then either a) those people really need to rethink what they want to do, because maybe everyone else thinks they're reprehensible, or b) we actually do have a case of a civil rights violation in a new way that we haven't considered making a law for.

Every business deciding not to serve black people would be a case of (b) (though retrograde, as we already have laws around that), and refusing to provide service to hate groups is, IMO, clearly (a).
> What more due process do you require?

That sounds like something a Nazi would say.
Is it corruption when a governor issues a pardon, or a president vetoes a bill? The point of an Executive is to be able to do act-utilitarian evaluations of context, while the organization itself is stuck following rule-utilitarianism.
In return, CloudFlare's service provider immunity should be terminated. They've demonstrated that they do effectively control what happens with their networks and should not enjoy qualification for immunity.
No. Cake maker must make cakes for gay wedding. duh.
More evidence that on facebook, the user is the product. If you're buying, it's a good market.
I wouldn't say that you're unnecessarily scaring yourself at all. Kubernetes is extremely complex. I've been running it for a few months and I'm just starting to get my hands around it. Things will just stop working for what seems like no reason, and there are so many places to investigate you can easily burn most of a day troubleshooting.

It's a great system, but it's also relatively new, and most issues aren't well documented. You'll spend a lot of time in github issues or asking for help in the (very active, and often very helpful) community.

If you have a valid use case, I wouldn't steer you away from it, but your fears are well founded.
If it's stayed the same that's a huge win because software has become incredibly more complex.
dartlang.org is the modern heir-apparent to the Smalltalk language, backed by Google, and gaining a lot of traction.
Exactly. Its ironic his post doesn't even show up until I allow js loaded from multiple domains just to show 4 pictures and a couple paragraphs of text. Sites like his are huge part of the problem.
As a person in a management position hiring people, although work history is important, I tend to look past age and see whether I will enjoy working with the person more so than where they graduated from or how old they are.
Honest question for people who think this stifles freedom: do you also think taking down ISIS recruitment videos is anti-free speech? Should we not do that either?

Online radicalization is real. The challenge of how to deal with that and offer considerable freedom on the Internet will be a challenge for our society.
It's generally unsurprising to me that people with similar perspectives on a technology end up working at the same startup.

Knowing Rusty personally and given his long history as a FLOSS contributor, it is at least clear to me that he's speaking from his own perspective and not because Blockstream is paying him too.
How is this better than PannerNode, which is built into HTML5? I can hear the difference in the demo, but can someone put words to it?
> I could see a judge granting summary judgement in favor of Daily Stormer before Cloudflare even gets around to responding.

Yes, you wrote the same thing upthread. But you are not a judge so what you see or do not see isn't all that important here, what is important is how judges have found in other cases and it is typically quite hard to force a company to do business with any entity they do not wish to serve unless that entity is part of a protected class, which Neo Nazis are not. So on what grounds do you feel that Cloudflare would absolutely have to accept every customer that wishes their service? They're not a common carrier.
To add to this, race is a protected class [1]. We carefully and conservatively enumerate the classes a business holding itself out to the public may not discriminate based on. Political ideology is not a protected class almost anywhere in America.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class
Here in the USA, calling someone a Nazi does not at all suggest they are a member of some well-organized noveau-NSDAP. Even the swastika-waving type are understood to be trying to upset and frighten folks.

In fact, given the American love for sarcasm and hyperbole, and lack of an actual historical Nazi party of any note, it seems to me less likely for one to interpret the label literally.
Although beware that # does a slightly different thing.
He has since apologized for and disavowed those tweets. He wrote them before he was in public office:

“I sincerely apologize for the inappropriate things I posted to social media many years ago,” Bellamy said in his Facebook post. “Elected officials should be held to a higher standard, and while I was not in office at the time, in this instance I came up short of the man I aspire to be.”

He attributed the tweets to an immature phase of his life.

“At the time of the tweets that I saw posted on the website, I was a young man in my early 20s living outside the Deep South for the first time,” Bellamy said. “In the course of trying to mature and find my way I came to some false conclusions about the world around me and made them known.”

http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2016/11/wes-bellamy-cha...
Agreed in this specific case: Daily Stormer is a hate group that promotes horrible things, and there probably isn't a better solution than to just forcibly shut them down.

But I think the poster has a point in the general sense: shutting people up through force rarely changes their way of thinking, and that can come back to bite you later on.
> The slippery slope argument is an awful fallacy and ignores the fact that we can't even get content most of the world agrees is bad (child porn, active malware exploits, spammers) offline

So is false equivalence. Child porn, active malware exploits and spam that fails to comply with the CAN-SPAM act are all illegal. Hating people is not illegal, nor is it illegal to have a website that hates people.

I'm not suggesting that CloudFlare was or is under any obligation to assist Daily Stormer in getting views, but deplorable or not, there's nothing I know to have been illegal about it, unlike the other bad acts you are lumping it in with.
I have to wonder if he really made that decision of his own accord, or did he receive one or more calls from large customers that influenced the decision.
It's the only explanation.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15002842
Can you please change your formatting on this? It's breaking HN for me (Chrome on Win10)
CloudFlare could've just sued DS out of existence if the claim they are making is true, for libel/slander/defamation of character. Instead, they lose out on free money, lose out on delivering a bigger black eye to ethnicists, and possibly lose their service provider immunity.

Should've resisted the urge to punch a Nazi and acted like a real American instead. We don't fight, we sue.
I could see that. If true, that means that the CEO's revulsion of Nazis overcame his business sense. Which is completely expected.
If TDS did make such a claim publicly enough to cause reputational damage, there should be evidence we can all see.

Anyone know where that evidence is?
Heeeeell no!

The wedding cake case didn't have anything to do with free speech, and a lot to do with discrimination: http://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminate....

Do not conflate a bunch of causes just because you feel they are related. It doesn't do your argument any favors.
Just because it is called Islamic development bank does not make it a religious organization. Point here is - look at the profiles of some of the organizations. Some of them based on fundamentals I am not sure I feel comfortable about. Also about catholic church in Africa, see Rwanda case https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Rwanda#1994_Genoci...
My interpretation would be that software licenses like the GPL can really only be violated by people and companies that have the capacity to understand them. Asking a layperson to sift though some sites ToS is a burdensome expectation.
While this was the right choice and long overdue IMO, it was the wrong way to do it. They should update their TOS to remove the arbitrary clause about terminating for any reason, and replace it with a concrete list of behaviour which is against their terms, like perhaps hate speech, violent threats and harassment. Cloudflare can decide where this line is, but there is a line and it should be clear to everyone. Clients deserve to know what the criteria are prior to signup, and Cloudflare deserves the right to choose which clients to service.

Thankfully Cloudflare are not and should never be in the position where they decide what stays on the internet, as they are just one provider, and do not have a monopoly. This is why monopolies are undesirable, even though most companies aspire to one.
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People don't "understand" because you're wrong (or at least, have no evidence of being right). Infact, what you argue for is a worse outcome than your conclusion, an outcome where individuals and businesses are forced to support speech they don't agree with, thus robbing them of their freedoms.

Nothing is stopping you from self hosting what ever content you want. If you come to my machines, you play by my rules; simple as that.
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This is a very confusing view. If increasing block size were the sole goal, then the miners would switch to Bitcoin Cash and obviate the whole thing. Why the middle ground if they're looking to attack -- if 90% of the hash power switched to Bitcoin Cash then Bitcoin would be dead in the water.

The mining community seems split between strong segwit supporters and large block supporters. Segwit alone was not able to achieve consensus and would never have activated. Segwit2x was a compromise that conceded segwit in exchange for an increase in the block size.

If the goal of the miners is to increase centralization by increasing the block size, they had the opportunity to switch to Bitcoin Cash when it forked. Note that I don't completely buy the centralization argument, especially when we're talking about a 2MB -- it's not like 1MB is some magical number handed down by Ganesh. The main risk of the increase has always been the attendant dangers of a hard cork.

I'm a Bitcoin Cash supporter, but even I'll admit that Bitcoin Cash is a direct attack on Bitcoin (Core), that was not entirely successful, although more successful than opponents thought it could be.
No it isn't. Declare your interests.
I can see the value, it is a peer to peer dropbox that pays you in a token that can be used for speculation and immediate liquidity, think about this to sell a US stock to usd takes 7 business days, to sell a crpytocurrency to usd takes up to 3 business days on coinbase, sometimes same day or you can trade the token and hold in a bitcoin or ether within minutes