Thanks to both of you. I really do appreciate the thoughtful replies. I've been very disturbed by how polarized US politics are, so being able to talk things through like rational human beings makes me feel a bit better. :)

At a high level, I think the difference I see between jimmywanger's arguments and my own view (and probably dtien's) is, perhaps unfortunately, the starting assumptions about Trump as a person. Jimmy, you're arguing that Trump "is a negotiator" who "comes with outlandish proposals and expects to be talked down." Correct me if I'm mischaracterizing, but it seems like you, in general, assume the crazier things Trump has said aren't meant seriously, and that the man is for the most part a competent and rational actor.[4]

I've heard this other places, and often the conversation turns back to Trump's business career. Supporters seem to believe that he's not especially serious about the more extreme proposals he's made (a wall, a Muslim ban, pulling out of NATO); opponents believe he is. Supporters suggest that Trump's business career shows he is a serious, rational person; opponents believe his business career is mostly a sham. (This latter argument often involves doubts about his net worth[1], questions about his performance against the market[2], etc.)

I do think, Jimmy, that you're extending the benefit of the doubt to Trump in a way you don't to Clinton. Trump's public statements on LGBT rights are mixed-to-negative[3], whereas Clinton's are fairly clear. Yet because the Clinton Foundation takes Saudi contributions you assume Clinton is opposed to LGBT rights, and you assume otherwise about Trump?

To me, this is perhaps the heart of the matter, in the sense that Trump supporters seem, often, to (thankfully) not support some of the things Trump says at face value--but instead, they give him the benefit of the doubt that opponents do not.

I'm a bit too busy (and you can see I already wrote a fucking novel here) to go point-by-point, though I appreciate your detail. It sheds some light. There are a couple of specific issues I have questions on, I think:

1. Foreign policy: I think the aspect that worries me the most here is Trump's apparent "my way or the highway" view. Proponents view this as a negotiating tactic, but there are cases where this is genuinely concerning. Two stand out to me: the Paris environmental deal, and the Iran nuclear deal. In both cases, do you think that renegotiating these deals will lead to a better outcome? Congressional Republicans have been arguing for tearing up the Iran nuclear deal, which seems highly likely to make the world less safe.

2. Immigration: Trump is, presumably, in favor of greater restrictions on legal immigration and greater deportations[5]. Many Americans are, and so this may (for me) merely be a point of fundamental disagreement. But to be clear, do you merely support deporting "criminal" immigrants (i.e. felons), or do you believe it's necessary to deport as many undocumented residents as possible?

Finally, regarding the "Satan 2", to add some perspective: https://www.inverse.com/article/15826-why-you-shouldn-t-be-w.... There's a bit of posturing here, but to be clear, the nuclear balance between Russia and the US should not be viewed as changed.

Thanks again for your thoughtful replies. It makes me feel a lot better to talk to an actual human with whom I have some disagreements. (Happy to continue by email, by the way, but I don't want to post my email on HN, so you'll have to share one of yours. ;) )

1: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/05/donald-trump-net-wort...
2: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-09-03/should-do...
3: http://www.hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump-opposes-...
4: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/many-trump-supporter...
5: http://www.vox.com/2016/11/9/13572030/donald-trump-immigrati...