>I was making a general point. It is easier to stop eating than to lose weight by exercise. Much easier.

Now, I've been overweight on and off for much of my adult life, and... that hasn't been my experience. In my experience, if I want to stop gaining I need to cut out sweets and sodas, and that takes some effort and will, but I feel okay replacing my mountain dew with carbonated water and tea. I would classify that as 'easy' - but it doesn't make me lose weight, it just stops the expansion.

My experience has been that I feel... pretty bad if I try to cut beyond just skipping the sweets, the sodas and maybe the fries. I mean, I do lose weight without serious calorie-burning activities, but focus completely goes out the window, and I end up feeling really lethargic, and I become kitten-weak. It's quite possible that this is due to me not balancing the food I do eat correctly, or something of that nature, but the point is that nearly every time I've lost weight through caloric restriction, I stopped because I didn't like the side effects rather than any failure of will

I mean, maybe you are right; my lethargy actually makes it easier to not eat than to eat, but I don't get anything else done, either. I have successfully gotten down to a normal BMI this way, but if that's how being thin feels, I don't really see the point.

Exercise, on the other hand, generally makes me feel better on all fronts right away. I mean, it's still hard for me to stick with it, but when I stop it's always pretty clearly me being a flake or just not setting aside the time or properly prioritizing it, rather than the negative effects that significant caloric restriction seem to have. For me, when I stop exercising, it's nearly always clearly a failure of will. Last time, it was that they shut down my bike path for resurfacing. But I was feeling pretty good; I could take some time off... and yeah, that's how you get fat. That, and allowing myself to eat the incredibly good employer-provided sweets.

I have also gotten down to a normal BMI through exercise and avoiding sweets, and it feels great.

(there are injuries that will throw me off, too; but that's why I bicycle or eliptical rather than running; I ran a lot when I was thin, but as a fat person, trying to run enough to stress the cardiovascular system properly usually resulted in minor injuries that prevented me from running often enough to get into shape. On the bicycle and the eliptical, the limits are my will, my time, and my cardiovascular system.)

>I should warn you that those machine counters are kind of optimistic. The human body is really good at holding onto calories. We walk and run very efficiently, I think we may even be the most efficient at long distance running in the animal kingdom.

I was going off of http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/cycling-calori... -

In theory, you can put a floor on how many calories you are burning, because you can measure the output. On bicycles, often this is done with strain gauges in the rear freehub, but the idea is that you can put a floor on it; thermodynamics says that you are putting out at least that much energy. Of course, then you can argue about how efficient your body is... and if you really believe that man is an incredibly efficient machine, well, you probably have not seen me engage in any sort of sport.

>Maybe this is subjective. I don't consider 500 calories a lot of food, but to me it's a significant amount of running. A mouthful of food vs half an hour on a treadmill.

well, 500 calories most of the way to a pretty good burger, if you skip the cheese, fries and mayo. I mean, I'm not saying it's a huge meal or anything, but it's not just a mouthful. Double that, and I think one hour on the eliptical while watching silly action movies is totally doable, and you've got a fully loaded fat-man double-burger with bacon and cheese. (I've still gotta skip the fries if I want to lose weight, but I get to eat the burger, which is the best part.)

yeah. I guess I don't really see a half an hour on a treadmill as a huge amount of gym time. I personally have a goal of 5 hours a week of intense (read: I'm dripping with perspiration) cardio every week. And if I keep that up for any period of time, and manage to avoid sweets? I lose weight. And doing any of that at all makes me feel better, even if I fail to meet the goal (which, as evidenced by my current 14 stone weight, has been the case rather more often than not lately.)

Of course, everyone is different and your body probably responds differently than my body does to all of these things. Certainly, if your point is that a half an hour at the gym three times a week probably isn't going to move your BMI very much, I agree, though it is likely to make you a somewhat healthier fat person.