skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
> "Have you ever met a team that wants to support two things instead of one?"

It happens all the time. Do you really need me to point out examples?
I use TB daily - I did not ask a for a feature that did not find. But for several years it has been neglected. And the "open source community" did not step up to the plate and fix the problem.

I argue that there is no such a community that will save TB after Mozilla drops it.

Edit: Yes, the "search mail" feature that wasn't
500 years ago everyone was more likely to die as a result of violence or disease. this doesn't make me feel unsafe now.
Yeah, I think I (as well as other users) got confused by it being "unclassified in 2011" as the title said previously.
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Well the agent eats a fair chunk. I suppose you need to be somewhat senior as well.

Figures are quoted to me by a PM who oversees some devs in a well known Swiss bank in Canary Wharf.
Then it's just using straw men to vent an anger that could be cured with acceptance (love?) and understanding.
Pharrington doesn't seem to be fear mongering. They seem to be saying that some people take drugs because they lead miserable lives, and if the war on drugs meant anything the people waging that war should have focussed on why those people took drugs, rather than on just criminalising them and removing the supply of drugs.
Do you have any evidence of this claim (that it's a troll or "doesn't exist"), other than just your assertion that no normal person would do this?

I can assure you that I know plenty of young people who would do something like this - heck, I'm a young person (and also a Christian), and whilst I probably wouldn't be brave enough to actually approach a lecturer and voice such thoughts, I am sure that in a moment of weakness I could certainly think such things internally (which in some sense, is nearly or just as bad). So my assertion is based both on knowing my own peers and being honest about myself.

When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Sure, we may get there in the end, but it's often a journey of various emotions to get to that epiphany.

Are you saying you are one of those people? Or that you believe most people are like that?
This reminded me of jwz's old rant, "The CADT Model": https://web.archive.org/web/20151126183335/https://www.jwz.o....
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Cell libraries would still be incompatible. Your only possible portable layer is still RTL (with a lot of effort), exactly the same thing as with entirely closed toolchains.
I migrated from Thunderbird on Linux to OSX by simply moving the profile directory and modifying the new configuration file to point to that directory.

Easiest migration I have ever done.
> The reasons given, that XUL requires maintenance that Mozilla engineers don't enjoy doing, is a joke considering the amount of effort to maintain XUL is less than 1% of the amount of effort to move Firefox to HTML.

Ah, but maintaining XUL means working on old code (which is boring), but moving Firefox to HTML means working on new shiny code (which is exciting).

https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
Moore's law is going to stop working soon but humanity keeps piling up abstractions as if we had an infinity of computing power growth in front of us.
The goal wasn't to use HTML. Our goal was somewhat different. When I started Codenvy, it was after I had a pretty bad experience with developer tools. I had been offline from programming for 7+ years and lost most of my skills. When I tried to get current with maven, java, eclipse, tomcat, I was unable to get a simple program to compile.

I had a simple thought - it should be possible to let anyone anywhere contribute to any project without first installing software. you should be able to click a link and then everything you need is generated for you - the workspace, the projects in that workspace, the environments that power those workspaces.

Now, if you are on a desktop, you may want to wire in your existing IDE to integrate with that workspace. But if you are a product manager and just want to test some code, you don't want to install anything. So a browser experience is necessary then.

Generally, we have never seen the browser experience as the replacement objective or substitute. But it is a necessary deliverable for those who do not wnat to bother with installing software first.

Codenvy takes Che and is working to provide this sort of no-install workflow around a concept we call factories. You start in a private anonymous screen, click a link and everything you need to continue working is there. Really hard problem - that is what we focus on commercially.

But at the core of it, we needed a portable workspace server that had a web IDE. We chose GWT for the development of the GUI because of the cross browser portability and performance optimization. It's a brutal technology but we get a lot of nice optimizations. We have started some explorations to support Vaadin for dynamic reloading of widgets and have some partners who may help us with a pure JavaScript client, too.

We are embedding all of the language services within the machines that power the environments that the workspace is bound to. We use either localhost or docker depending upon your configuration. Since everything is within, the actual comms between browser and the workspace machine is limited. So you can get a pretty darn good expeirence. The file operations are localhost native, so we are able to process Java files with 50K lines at about the same speed that Eclipse or Netbeans does (minus the part of the file system being inside of the docker container).
edit: Wait, nevermind. I edited out my response. I was trying to have an honest conversation. I didn't know you had a product that you had to stick up for the usage model of.

Always-connected working is widespread enough that you can sell the product you sell, but pretending like it's a well-established hard requirement everyone easily meets is bullshit.
Why do you think it's only been the last few years? It's always existed. The internet allows people to now convene to discuss these issues and establish acceptable behaviors.
I Corinthians 13 is indeed a great and laudable passage. But I suspect there was something more in the sermon that triggered the complaint.

As for victimization and oversensitivity, I agree that it's a good thing to be subjected to challenging viewpoints when you're at a university. It's also important to have a platform for responding to viewpoints you don't like. I suspect that attendance at sermons is required at Oklahoma Wesleyan, and I further suspect that students are strongly discouraged from publicly espousing views contrary to the content of those sermons. This doesn't make for a healthy university setting.

That said, writing childish outrage screeds lambasting "victim culture" is not exactly a noble or loving response to the student's complaint. This essay sounds like it was written in about five minutes while in full rage mode about the "kids these days".

The "victim culture" accusation alwasy strikes me as sadly ironic coming from a political wing that claims victimization of the overwhelming majority relgion and culture due to the design of Starbucks cups, the use of the phrase "Happy Holidays", or the existence of mosques. I think the word is "projection"...

Edit/Update: After browsing some other articles in the OKWU "News" section, I'm sorry to see this overtly political screed was posted to Hacker News at all. This university appears to be a branch of Fox News, rather than an educational institution.
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Probably not the majority, but a very loud minority.
I meant the other one that they showed screenshots of in various states of redaction.
> you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view.

This habit is extremely powerful. There's no way to require people to do it, but people who do it, at least know the arguments of their opponents, are in such a better position to get what they want that people who don't are left standing, mouths open wondering what happened.

And it's extremely timely as just two weeks ago, President Obama gave this quote:

"I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side."

People don't realize that college already is the safe place where they can develop the habits of empathy and conflict-management. Getting called "bitch" and seeing mice are the least of their problems. Those are going to happen in the real-world no matter what. College isn't a place to preserve themselves from these inevitable, superficial insults, it's a place to develop leadership, contribution and cooperation abilities to get big things done like feeding, improving, healing, leading the world, etc.
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Decades of pat advice to "seek counseling" rather than deal with it as the answer to every problem, from the schoolyard fight to any other kind of interpersonal problem, from "Dear Abby" and any number of more recent pop psychologists, helecopter parents, to school and workplace policies, etc. Funny to see that complaint in Psychology Today, as they are probably as guilty as anyone in bringing about this state of affairs.
Along those lines, I think formal debate should be required in secondary education, and students should be required to defend the position they disagree with.
Interesting!

https://codeinsecurity.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/installing-d...

https://0b4af6cdc2f0c5998459-c0245c5c937c5dedcca3f1764ecc9b2...
welcome to modern day USA. This Dr. Everett Pipper is probably living his last remaining days of employment and will soon be on food stamps thanks to the PC Cops. Just like the Yale guy. Just like any one who is not totally formated to fit in a system. A system weak, sterile, that fires teachers on the purpose of teaching "offending" thing to kids that wear the latest air jordans - Made by a famished third world kid in some sweatshop - that will file a complaint to the PC Cops, destroy a teacher life then quietly go home eat a peanut butter sandwich made by underpaid farmers and turn on the tv - soldered by low paid workforce - just in TIME to watch a disney POPSTAR totally naked on a wrecking ball singing sexual content pop songs on the purpose of defending feminism.
Sure they do.

People will complain about ... well ... just about anything.
Remember when Adobe abandoned Flash?
Apache: http://flex.apache.org
So they can tell what time it is. Why else ?
> When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck.

Well, this goes both ways.

Like most HN threads on this topic, this discussion is largely full of reactions against perceived "victimization", devoid of any self-reflection about what merit the complaints might actually have.
There is, look up Conky
Maybe they decided there's too much technical debt and they can't make changes to the browser as fast as they wish they could in the current framework?

Not 'broken' in a traditional sense but still a valid reason to rewrite.
I don't actually agree with your list all that much as much as I agree with the concept of such a list.

Your list is interesting but it limits by virtue of being made from your perspective, I think it is an extremely interesting approach but it would need the merging of many such lists from many individuals before it would have real value. My 'best ideas' would not check 10 (or even 5) of your boxes and yet two of those turned into billion dollar industries and made some people extremely wealthy.

Not that I managed to capture much of that value :) Once again underlining that good ideas are not all that rare.

I'll see if I can come up with a list of my own that you can merge (if you agree with the criteria).
> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality

No one is arguing for this.
Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things.

Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types.

My father feels unsafe (on my behalf) when he watches various Islamic terror attacks on the news. I was in Amsterdam last week, which is sort of near Paris and Brussels (though the Dutch seem to integrate their Muslims far better), and he was worried about my safety. In reality I'm far more likely to die from drinking Belgian beer, eating a space cake and then falling into a canal.

I'm sure most of us agree that his feelings are completely irrational and entirely his problem. So why aren't the irrational fears held by various student groups treated the same way?

[1] http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race...
It is sad to see Web GUIs taking over the native GUIs. Everyone run their apps in a virtual GUI inside another GUI. That's meta-meta-crazy.
> Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas?

No one is arguing for this.
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The statistic points at an average of 100grams of sugar per person per week in 2000. Considering that a single can of coke already contains 30 grams of sugar, the statistic seems to indicate raw sugar intake, and not added sugar or other sugars.
I would like to offer a different perspective to this.

Instead of thinking of ideas as cheap, think of them as fragile. Most ideas wont stand up to even preliminary scrutiny.

Great ideas aren't Eureka moments that come from nothing and suddenly appear in front of us.

Most of them are vague intuitions, about some potential for something to be created and then over time grow to manifest themselves. Over time they become stronger as they are nourished and cared for and defended until they are what we call great ideas.

But here is the thing. You never know which idea has the potential to become something big. So the trick IMO is to care for ideas early on, to protect them and see if they can survive the ever present scrutiny from the reality they need to exist in by protecting them.

Ideas aren't cheap they are the most important thing humans have and we should learn how to nourish the good ones and dispel of the bad ones. Just like we do with our children.
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> Coercion is, by definition, against anyone's will, and so no one is genuinely fine with being ruled.

But again, the details matter. In a practical sense, there's no stark difference between mild coercion and compromise. One could argue that compromise is voluntary whereas, trivially, coercion is not, but this just discards a large part of human experience.

I got married voluntarily. I had kids voluntarily. I choose to have friends, rather than isolating myself. Although all of these decisions were voluntary, their constraints on my behaviour are more onerous than anything dictated by my government. So if government coercion is less restrictive than social coercion / compromise, what's the point of taking a dogmatic stance?

EDIT> No man is an island.
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The only good thing (I think) of a generalist is that one is used to adapt, but yeah... it gets boring sometime. Although after a while, is interesting to see how we reinvent wheels and show them with a new fancy name, it is a pattern that you would see more or less each 10 years.

Sometimes it feels like everything was already invented in the 60's.
Fun as in yelling at people to get off my digital, hand-optimized assembly lawn?
Not sure if serious, but...

XUL (or rather XULRunner) is a cross-platform UI toolkit, basically a Javascript+XML runtime built with C++. It's what Mozilla programs are built with today, abstracting out a lot of OS-specific details. It's unlikely to ever be rewritten in any language, and pretty much failed to get any traction outside of the Mozilla ecosystem.
This is really fantastic. While I don't agree with religion in university (but if it works for you great!) I completely agree with the gist of her argument. Students are coddled too much. If you're not uncomfortable then you're not paying attention. If you need "trigger warnings" or "safe spaces" at a university then you're not ready for university, or at the very least, you have a lot of growing up to do.

This may sound harsh but it's reality, and the real problems in life won't be at university, they'll be out in the real world. There are no safe spaces and trigger warnings in the real world.
Couldn't (s)he have used Socratic discourse to show the complainant the absurdity of his point of view?
To be clear: I am not in any way opposed to the creation of safe spaces and contexts where people can be free of the shit that is heaped upon them by the culture at large.

The fact is, the world can be pretty freaking hostile if you're gay, trans, a woman, from a minority ethnic group, or otherwise part of a group that is not mainstream. The hair-raising experiences related to me by friends of mine have made it utterly clear to me that I live an awfully privileged life in that regard (specifically, going about my daily life never for a moment worried that I would be sexually harassed or discriminated against).

There are people that mistake "not being pandered to" with "being victimized", but there are also a lot of people who experience these things in an absolutely genuine fashion.

So I'm not trying to act as a "counterweight" to anything, except the extreme cynicism of the author, and people who mistake being challenged in their views for being attacked.
I think it's an exaggeration to say that someone's view is dangerous to civilization.
>Many inside of Mozilla, including an overwhelming majority of our leadership, feel the need to be laser-focused on activities like Firefox that can have an industry-wide impact.

Can we have another alternative for pocket built-in?
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> Sometimes it feels like everything was already invented in the 60's.

Reading up on the capabilities of early mainframes is eye-opening if you (like me) grew up on Pentiums.
Given how DNS works and the TTL applied to the data of root servers, isn't it hopeless to attack them?
We have worked hard to decouple the front end from the backend, which is powering workspaces, enviornments, and machines.

The client side can interact with any server side component over REST or web sockets.

is there a particular use case that you'd like some elaboration on?
I don't know how much actual discussion (vs preaching to the choir) occurs on the internet when anyone with a remotely differing view is immediately told that they are wrong for not agreeing 100% and shortly after has a Twitter mob doxing them.
> Folks need to have thicker skin

Why?

Congratulations on being such a paragon of excellence. Why should we require such virtue of all humans? Instead of expecting you to develop a thick skin (are you sure this is a good thing?), why can't we try to reform your aggressors in the first place?
What subject do you teach? I was talking to an old physics professor of mine and he said the same thing, but my former psych professor was completely the opposite. Maybe it's a subject-related issue?
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A little research will produce a vast number of examples of political correctness with real consequences and not just "straw-manning".

Here is a recent example: A Canadian university cancels a yoga class because yoga comes "from a culture that “experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy,”

In a world that can do that, I don't find it surprising that a student could express the view in the original article and actually mean it.
It is common for opioids like cocaine, heroin, etc. It is not common for marijuana, psychedelics, etc. With these there is some tolerance that can be built, but it doesn't take very long to get back to baseline.
Probably depends on the school, I've saw it as a student, but I have friends from engineering colleges who said they didn't see much of it.
I don't know about your definition of 'normal' but I've seen plenty of videos recently (they tend to surface when things like the recent Yale activity happen) that have reminded me that there are people with views so irreconcilably far from my own that there's no point trying to second-guess what views anyone would or wouldn't hold.
> "I argue that there is no such a community that will save TB after Mozilla drops it."

Yes, I realise that was your point, but my point is what work is required? If there's no work required, then there's no need for the community to save it.

It's an email client. So long as it sends and receives email, and can be compiled for the latest OS versions, what work is needed?
I am struck by a certain level of irony that this article exists on the front page of hn at the same time as a blog post from a university president telling students to effectively 'suck it up'.

Empathy, and its role in design[1], is becoming an increasingly important area of study in engineering/STEM education. Being able to understand one's user (or users) especially when they may differ greatly from you is hugely beneficial to effective design of any product or system. It is implicitly represented in most of the modern startup movements (e.g. lean startup) that understanding your customer is vital to market formation or market progress.

We seem to avoid using the empathy phrase but it is ever-present.

[1]http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09544820902875033
What a circle that would be !!!

Phoenix (later, again renamed to Firefox) was originally split off from Mozilla/Netscape Navigator since the 'suite' was presumably slow.
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Conky is for your desktop. We are talking about a server, which you connect to via ssh.
> People in the real world will treat you like crap, no matter what.

Why should we accept this?
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> and this is why we have criminal justice systems which typically take this sort of thing perfectly seriously

I hate to break it to you but there are some serious issues with the justice system. In usa at least.
This makes absolutely no sense. Plenty of Jewish people went to college in the last 50 years and did not request that the Holocaust be left out of history classes because it 'triggered' them.
Laptop killer for the masses? At this rate, future programmers, unless they themselves are the children of devs, won't have general purpose computers to experiment on growing up.
Yeah, but there is a trade-off involved. If you spend 3 years rewriting your toolkit, then the time you will eventually save on further changes has to offset those 3 years, and that's very hard for most projects.
I guess that's the difference between this and say, threadless. Threadless has amateur custom designs submitted and voted on, and the top designs float up to the front page. Because most people simply aren't very good designers...
Much like no true Scotsman would do such a thing?
I submitted a bug report once and it was fixed the next day, I was invited to try it out on their beta version of the website and it was rolled out on all the servers a couple days later. These guys are truly providing a fantastic service.
This made me laugh. Well played.
Even more bloated?)