skysight-inc/HackerNews huggingface dataset:
The generational shift isn't between people, but between decades. Many of the "leave no trace" hikers today were very different in their youth. Look through the history and you will find people in the 60s regularly doing things that today are simply not allowed (fires, cutting down small trees etc). So it isn't that people are different today. There are just more of them on trails.

Some would say the answer is to provide more services such as better camping accommodations and harder trail surfaces to handle the extra people. I do not support this. I suggest that making trails easier attracts more people, only exacerbating the problem. It's a game that cannot be won.

So rather than try to accommodate all these people, perhaps parts of the trail should be made less accommodating. Rock climbers do this all the time. See debates over sport (heavily bolted) v. traditional climbing methods. Adding safety features to a route attracts more traffic. Making/keeping a route difficult or even dangerous keeps beginners away, which reduces traffic. If we assume that there will always be more people in the future than there are now, that if nothing changes population pressure will always increase, then actively trying to keep people away may be the only sustainable plan.
One reason for long work hours may be the proliferation of bullshit work. If you are working in bullshit position (stategic coordinator for the east coast and such) you can't be judged based on your results. By definition, there are no results. Thus, you signal your usefuleness/status by working long hours.
Fewer words, more math.
[This is probably getting a bit deep in the thread for HN; happy to continue via private mail. See my profile.]

> I think we agree that the axiomatic disagreement is about whether non-existence itself is something to fear (at least, I think we agree on what we're disagreeing about).

While that's something we disagree on, I don't think that's the root of the axiomatic difference; that's why I'm curious. Earlier in the thread, you said:

> I can understand the concept of ceasing to exist. I have not had anyone be able to explain to me why that makes that person so afraid, other than the fact that it just does.

That's one step removed from any underlying difference in values or axioms. Axiomatically, we clearly disagree on whether death equates to non-existence, but your statement above seems to suggest you're interested in understanding where other people are coming from despite that: why, assuming that premise, someone might find such non-existence horrifying. To which I'd provided an answer in the form of an analogy to degenerative mental diseases, and never got a response to that.

That's the part I'm curious about: I don't understand a mindset that can find a degenerative mental disorder horrifying (which I'm assuming you agree with) without finding the end result horrifying as well. I'm genuinely curious to understand that.

> Let me be clear. I have given up on humanity's ability to fix itself. I have not given up on a higher power's ability to change individual humans into people who can make this world a better place. [...]

Sounds like we're talking about similar things but fundamentally disagreeing over attribution, then. Or possibly definition of terms, because I have no idea what you mean by "humanity" if you don't mean "humans", since you're subsequently talking about "individual humans" / "individual people" making the world a better place.
Yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9641832

Still, I'm happy to see it since I've somehow missed all the previous times.
Sure, that obviously works as long as we model the economy as a static entity that never changes in response to stimuli, in which we model "dollars" as being able to buy an infinite amount of goods and services at the pre-change levels.

But that's not how the economy works. The rich can provide "dollars", but we can't raid them for man-hours of child-care, or care for the elderly, nor can they provide professional health care. They've got the same 168 hours a week the rest of us do.

This doesn't say that "BI can't work"... it does say you can't model the economy statically, use the prices and valuations of today, and assume that rewiring the fundamental economic fabric of society will result in no changes. You can't do that at this scale.
I went through the K&R C book writing out the exercises and notes in a notebook. I had limited access to a computer at the college I was attending. Thankfully I was well beyond my "Intro to UNIX" class and that granted me the free time to play with the code I had written in my notebook. I think learning to code this way can be a huge aid in conceptualizing certain CS / programming topics.
But surely similar things would happen?

Let's say your wage is 30K per year. On Jan 1 a UBI of 12K per year is to be instated. What would happen to your wage in a year? Personally, given that most all businesses want us to be loyal to them with no loyalty returned to us, my guess would be that you are let go and someone would be hired to do your job for 20K per year.
Less handwaving, more specifics.
You don't need a minimum wage when you have an UBI worth its name (not just around / below the current minimum wage e.g. like discussed in Switzerland £1,500 a month or more).

People will either do the job or you have to pay a reasonable amount for it - one key principle of the UBI - more people get a choice how they use / sell their time and are not prey like today in many regions / countries to the few who dictate how much they will receive for their time.
Is it written in stone, that Jetbrains and their tools will still exist in a few years? And that the then current version will be able to open my ancient project files?
The problem comes with narrowing all political variation down to "left" vs "right". More dimensions are needed to tease apart the differences / similarities.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum#Other_multi...
When talking about startups "a billion dollar company" usually means valuation. Considering Mojangs profitability they were probably a billion dollar company in early 2012.
I suspect one of the side effects is that UBI would lead to a decrease in full time employment and an increase in part time employment. Basically, having a job would become a matter of making enough to live the lifestyle of your choice rather than a matter of having a roof over your head and the ability to eat.

It's one of the reasons I mentioned scrapping the minimum wage when implementing UBI.

The job market becomes much more of a market where work is paid for what it's worth because it's an actual market and employers don't have the undue leverage of simple survival over employees.
You mentioned the AT being most accessible, just in terms of being nearby, but accessibility in terms of necessary skill is an important factor as well.

The Benton MacKaye Trail, for example, runs parallel to the southern part of the AT for about 300 miles, and also starts on Springer Mountain. There are lots of people that live close enough to hike on it. But the fact that it involves much more wilderness and doesn't go through a town every other day makes it a poor option for inexperienced hikers.

That makes me suspect that the only way to spread out the damage, so to speak, is to raise barriers to entry. Emphatically: not so drastically that people won't hike. I certainly want more people interested in enjoying and protecting the outdoors. But at least enough that people are comfortable in a variety of settings that aren't as "urbanized" as the AT is.
+1 for Google Cloud (GCE). Google is really putting in effort into the platform. Seems like they are pushing updates to the web interface often, and really improving UX/UI.
i don't see any mail
i can say its steve jobs quotes as well

nice try though
Yes, that's true, but that's almost certainly because more women work now than ever did before. That's a one-time (enormous) increase, but there's no reason to believe it's an indication of a longer-term trend. In fact, the data show otherwise.

You can play around with the data here:

* http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12300000
> It's becoming clear that increased automation as well as the rise of artificial intelligence is threatening ever more jobs.

This sentence is absolute FUD. Every technical revolution over the past 300 years has been made with automation and productivity, and yet people are still employed in new jobs in sectors that did not exist before. Employing people to do menial obsolete jobs serves no purpose other than to delay the next evolution of ideas and products.

With this thinking we would still be handwriting books and riding horses. In the future when driverless cars are prominent, people will ask in astonishment "So you used to DRIVE your own car to work?"
".. constant improvements and upgrades .." == marketing vomit.
How would they need to track us differently than, say, with Soc Sec?
Adding to this, if people want a lonely long hiking trail the Continental Divide is a good choice. My longest period without seeing another person at all was 6days, and I know several who have gone went weeks without seeing anyone(apart from hitchhiking into town for more food).

Its also just a really awesome trail (Montana/Wyoming/Colorado/New Mexico) with on a good year maybe 300 hikers starting(far fewer finishing or making significant progress)

Though it does take map and compass navigation as the trail is not complete and even when it is, there often isn't a trail just a line on a map.
I'm curious what HN readers think the yearly UBI would be (in US dollars) if it were actually implemented?
1) this looks very cool. Nice to see a pure C lib developed with such apparent restraint.

2) any plans on support OSS for things like *BSD/Solaris ?

3) plans to support writing out to disk with even a single format, like .au, or .wav ?

I'm looking forward to playing with this !
Here's how that works...

99% of people agree with you on that, but 75% of those people have no idea they're considered rich.

That how all populist ideas work. Take from the few to give to the many. Then, come to find out, there are too few to take from and too many to give to. So, in the end it becomes take from the many and give to the few.
I've done the math and you can get it to work. You need to make implementation choices that will make some people very unhappy though.

First, you start with non-institutionalized adult citizens that brings you down to a payee base of ~210M (this part will be unpopular as parents will want to get more than other adults). Next you set the basic income at the poverty level for a single person, $11,700. That gives you a total nominal cost of $2.47T. You do not exempt the basic income from the normal taxation rules. That means you get some of it back in taxes. If you figure 20% that gives you a net cost of $1.97T. You then take a buzz saw to all social spending aimed at US citizens, including all parts of social security (this would be very unpopular among the elderly, near elderly and disabled). With all parts of social security adding to more than $800B/year It's fairly easy to find a $1T in savings there. That brings the total to under a trillion dollars. You take a buzz saw to tax expenditures, e.g. exclusion of fringe benefits, preferential rates for capital gains and dividends, mortgage interest deduction, state and local tax deduction, etc. (this is also going to be very unpopular). If you add it up, that's good for another $550B.

That leaves you with another $420B in new non-offset spending. I'm certainly not going to to claim that's a small number, but it seems achievable. It's about 2.3% of GDP. Maybe you can get states to kick in (or force them to through reduced grants in aid) given that some of their social programs can also be largely reduced or eliminated.
I am unmoved by the relatively tiny short term movements you are referring to. Basically all you have shown is that we had a relatively large recession in 2007-08.
What are you looking to monitor?

I wrote a shell script recently that sends memory, cpu and hard drive statistics to firebase.com every minute via a cronjob and a simple front end site to display the results in angularjs 1.x - for such few connections, firebase is free.

I run it on 7 of our servers and it's helped nicely

The shell script could easily have more added to it (status of httpd or nginx, mysql, etc...)

I leave it running on a 2nd monitor all day and with the data binding of firebase / angularjs it refreshes automatically so i just watch it out of the corner of my eye.

I could throw it on git for you if you think it would help you.
You can download it on the ScummVm webpage if I recall correctly.
Just for once, I want to hear a truly honest conservative politician: "We need to drastically shrink the government, which is why when I'm elected, one-eighth* of my constituency will be immediately unemployed!"

(Not that there isn't a good case for eliminating federal waste; but the reality I never hear uttered in the conservative bubble is that the largest government expense is federal employees and subcontractors.)
You could very easily argue a UBI dramatically reduces the amount of information the government has on current welfare dependents. Besides, it can't possibly be any more "tracking" than what the IRS already does
Love it. That was an excellent and intuitive way to talk about the derivative of a type. I couldn't even come close to explaining it that well.
"People won't be "livin' large" on the basic income."

Not at first.

I'll tell you one of my big fears about UBI, though: The first vote that comes in Congress about whether to raise it. What happens then? Obviously, you are an asshole of the highest order if you so much as fail to support raising it, let alone arguing that it perhaps needs to be reduced for some reason. It becomes a "race to the top" to compete as to who can promise the biggest increases.

If you don't agree, well, let me get this straight, today's politicians are reckless and stupid for not implementing UBI and having all these separate wasteful programs, but the instant they pass it, they suddenly become responsible caretakers of the common good?

Also: Suppose we become unable to support the UBI for some reason and have to reduce it. How many cities burn as a result? Or do we just not reduce it until society keels?

It makes socio-economic failure states go from "bad" to "catastrophic to the body politic".

(As for observations that the same is true of many social programs today... yes, I fear that too. The only thing that prevents cities from burning when we must inevitably cut SS benefits is that the affected will be too elderly to go out there and burn things. But it's still less of a problem, because the separation of concerns makes it hard for systematic calls to raise benefits to really get going, except maybe SS. Unifying them into one easy phrase changes that.)

I want to see this work at a smaller scale before I would even remotely support recklessly experimenting with the largest economy in the world with such a fundamental change. Yes, I am familiar with the much too small semi-studies that have been done, most of which have bad caveats and ran for nowhere near long enough to matter. Let's at least see a county or something run this for 5 or 10 years, and through at least one reduction.
This is the first thing that came to my mind as well. Learning a new language surely shakes things up.
Show HN: Document Tracking and Analytics – Know when your document is viewed
Well if the drone had a stick...
Its supposed to be a dream. Not everybody achieves the dream. But its possible.
Yes, a lot of people employed to make unemployed people feel guilty. (And make them jump through hoops.) Inefficient and mean-spirited bureaucratic overhead.
Convox is working on making it easier to spin up an ECS cluster. http://www.convox.com/

I've been playing with both and conceptually they're very similar. ECS is a little less sophisticated and extensible than Kubernetes, but that's by design since it only works with AWS services. For example, ECS uses ELB to abstract services whereas Kubernetes has its own service load balancer and service replication mechanism.
Those are good examples of the thoughtlessness.

One possible solution is to have clearly delineated public art spaces. Tout Quarry is an example from the UK.

http://learningstone.org/?page_id=23933

> Tout Quarry Sculpture Park began in 1983 with artists residencies, where well known and emerging artists created both temporary and permanent work in response to the labyrinths and gullies of quarry workings within the 40 acre site – giving back to the Quarry where in the past so much had been taken away for buildings in London and around the world. This first Landscape and Environmental Sculpture project was significant in shaping PSQT’s creative and educational work and helped to save the historical quarry environment from further mineral extraction through a yearly artists residency programme that has brought a new experience and dimension to the quarry, with an unprecedented involvement of the community and visitors within the landscape
And likely most skilled labor as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU (Humans Need Not Apply)
Killing? No killing. Sounds like a pretty healthy way to get out and meet a diverse group of people.
Basic Income! Agreed!
>Unless you've built a billion dollar company yourself then you have no more experience that he has -

This is what the person said.

>>Meetings absolutely will create a billion dollar company.

I questioned this absurd statement.

>Second, because you could be attributing all your success in doing it to your self, hard work etc, overlooking all the random and lucky elements (not to mention other people's work) that helped you to achieve that. That's a very common psychological fallacy ("no winner believes in luck"), and one can have it even for minor achievemnets.

That is your own projection, and actually shows flaws in your own thinking. I have never claimed this to be true. Also, since you're so interested in fallacies, you should be able to spot your own.

>So let's stick to observation on how many of those companies were made (as non-billion dollar company creators ), and arguments that appeal to logic, law, how society works, etc.

You are a severely confused person. Some humans, in some domains, some of the time, apply logical thought, and that sometimes produces results. You want a logical argument? Humans are not robots and they do not interact with the world simply using logic and no law describes how society works. Logic means nothing in the domain we're discussing. How a billion dollar company is made, is not some provable hypothesis.
Get your own BB-8 droid
This was painted over 100 years ago.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinborland/5539302816/

Growing up near there, abusing the wilderness like this was always viewed as something people used to do, but we've now learned from our mistakes and take care of the wilderness so it sticks around for those after us.

Maybe younger people are just becoming further removed from the abuse of the past, so they are forgetting the hard-learned lessons.
What size beer would you like, it's .50 for per ounce.

I'll take 16 ounces

Ok, one sec lemme print up a glass, one sec.
Number of people in the USA: 3 * 10^8

GDP of USA: 1.5 * 10^13

Basic level of sustenance for a person in USA: 10^4

Number of people we can economically sustain: 1.5 * 10^9

3 * 10^8 < 1.5 * 10^9

QED, math proves the UBI is perfect!
What about the Chinese right-wing? Or the Russian? Or did the context of the article give enough clues that they weren't talking about those, but maybe so for Europe?
I think the economist is concerned about both pace and kind of disruption taking place. I tend to agree with you all jobs lost due automation have been replaced with other types of jobs. Usually bullshit service sector jobs to cite a common example. Mind you we already have some forms of universal basic income. Social security... child credit... all conditional but nevertheless are tax transfer
Whoops, overlooked that in your post! But I think it bears repeating. :)
I'm volunteering to run a code club for kids. I saw a great video of how to teach a sorting algorithm in the playground by drawing with chalk on the floor. The kids then walk through the pattern and end up sorted at the end.

It was something like this: http://csunplugged.org/sorting-networks/#Videos
> not be told it was done already.

It doesn't sound like they were rebuking you. It's pretty common to link to a previous discussion for people interested, especially if the current one doesn't take off or if the previous one contains some information worth repeating or avoiding.
They're actually not that great since they lack the creator commentary, which I did not know about when I bought them. I should have bought the xbox360 versions, but I thought they were the same, and decided portability was a good enough factor to go for the ipod touch versions.
Can we add a 2013 tag to this?
[OFFICAL CHRIST TV WEBSITE HACKED ] Hacked by Hunter Rim
http://www.christtv.co
http://zone-h.com/mirror/id/24798986
http://www.hack-mirror.com/282315.html
This is a stupid burden to put on people, nobody here knows the national budget well enough to make any sort of reasonable prediction about the actual numbers. Besides, you don't need mathematical notation to make a good argument.
I'm suggesting that if you want to standing a snowball's chance in Hell of fixing the things you identify as problems, you need to think about how to persuade people. Bluntly, ranting in a person's general direction tends not to be a great way to change their mind, and changing minds is almost certainly what you need to further your stated goals.

I perhaps could say it better myself, but that's not my goal at this juncture.
Stephen A. Douglas, the politician who was too smart for his own good (2013)
A job guarantee has similar results to heavily unionized labor: inefficiency. People waste their time doing things that don't matter. Basic income is great because it provides everyone a safety net efficiently. With basic income, they don't have to worry about survival, so people take jobs because they think it's beneficial to them. It sets up the right incentive structures for a productive free market.
>Sure, basic income would be better than a patch work welfare state present in most of the developed world

In many countries the government negotiates medicine prices as one entity for the entire country. This gives it a lot of leverage and the ability to provide medicine for all its citizens at a price far lower than what they would each individually be able to buy it at.

Now if everybody had basic income the governments might start getting pressured to stop acting as an intermediate negotiator.
Dungeons are (in theory) built by intelligent people for a reason.

That reason is typically to store something behind a lot of very dangerous traps, trick architecture, and maybe enemies.

Unless you're concerned with maintenance, you don't worry about farms and all that other nonsense--that's gold you should've been spending on golems, pit traps, and other self-maintaining defenses!
One of the articles you linked to mentions two boy scout leaders (both over the age of 25) who destroyed an ancient natural formation for a Youtube video. They escaped prison and a felony sentence and got a fine.

(That's probably a good thing; I'd have preferred it if they'd had to place some signs as a restorative justice gesture).
Oh whoops you're right. Looks like it needs the extension installed.
The excess of positive language prior to betrayal point definitely matches my personal experience.
This is only true in a very immediate sense. Pretty much anyone in a first world economy has access to all the technical information they could want.
Also available for pre-sale on Thinkgeek: http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/ijgi/