The Great Toilet Paper Scare of 1973 (2014) - luu
https://priceonomics.com/the-great-toilet-paper-scare-of-1973/
======
DonHopkins
The old story about John Draper calling up Richard Nixon and warning him about
a toilet paper crisis in LA is beginning to make a lot more sense, now...

[https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/11/the-hacker-who-
inspire...](https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/11/the-hacker-who-inspired-
apple-john-captain-crunch-draper/)

>The legendary antics of phone phreaks in the 70s are as numerous as they are
unverifiable. There's the story of a couple of phreaks — of which one was
allegedly Draper — who called up the White House, dropped President Nixon's
secret codename 'Olympus' and were soon put through to the President himself —
only to tell him of a 'national emergency' that was occurring because Los
Angeles had run out of toilet paper.

[https://web.archive.org/web/20060226021102/http://webcrunche...](https://web.archive.org/web/20060226021102/http://webcrunchers.com/crunch/play/history/stories/toilet.html)

>We had the code word that would summon Nixon to the phone. Almost
immediately, another person was starting the process of dialing the number. I
stopped them just in time and recommended that they stack at least 4 tandems
before looping the call to the White house. Sure enough, the man at the other
end said "9337", my other friend said "Olympus please!", the man at the other
end said "One moment sir!"... About a minute later, a man that sounded
remarkably like Nixon said "What's going on?". My friend said "We have a
crisis here in Los Angeles!", Nixon said "What's the nature of the crisis?",
My friend said in a serious tone of voice "We're out of toilet paper sir!".
Nixon said "WHO IS THIS?" My friend then hung up. Never did learn what
happened to that tape, but I think this was one of the funniest pranks, and I
don't think that Woz would even come close to this one. I think he was jealous
for a long time.

>To the best of my recollection, this was about 4 months before Nixon resigned
because of the Watergate crisis.

~~~
bryanrasmussen
I think with some preparation he could have taken it a bit further, the
hanging up came too fast.

------
lisper
The run on toilet paper started here (San Francisco Bay area) a week ago when
the shelter-in-place order was announced. I figured I'd wait for stores to be
restocked, since by then all the hoarders wouldn't need to go out an buy more.
But I went out yesterday and the TP shelves were still empty. No pasta either.
Canned tomatoes and coconut milk (which we cook with a lot in our house) are
all gone too.

Happily, we were reasonably well stocked before this all hit the fan, but I'm
a little surprised to still see empty shelves after a week. How long does it
typically take to restock non-perishables?

~~~
cletus
Here in Australia, one of the major supermarket chains (Coles) made a
statement about this. They said their biggest week of the year is the
Christmas week. They spend 6 months preparing for this. Each of the last 3
weeks has essentially been a Christmas shopping week. That's the scale of the
problem.

We have enough food and supplies. We have the distribution to get it to
stores. We have the capability to sell it in store. The only scarcity we have
is because of the hoarders. That hoarding and resulting scarcity is creating
more hoarders.

It's textbook illusion of scarcity.

~~~
nl
In Australia here too.

Supermarkets have introduced limits on the number of toilet roll packets you
can buy (which is sensible).

However, last weekend I was at the supermarket when it opened, and I observed
something I haven't seen noted elsewhere.

Manufactures seem only to be shipping _enormous_ packages of toilet paper (24
packs). This means people buy 1 packet of 24 rolls, because that is all that
is available. These huge packets also take more shelf space, which results in
more shortages.

Some smaller, independent supermarkets have taken to re-packaging the rolls
into smaller packets, which is a win/win for both the shop and the consumer.

But the manufacturer behaviour is interesting and unfortunate.

~~~
lmm
I think most people are happy to buy a 24 pack at the moment (and would
probably buy multiples of smaller packs otherwise), and it's probably easier
to distribute _only_ 24-packs than a mix of sizes. I'm all for manufacturers
prioritising throughput over convenience for the duration of the crisis.

~~~
nl
Except that means that less households get supply, which forces them into more
extreme measures.

People are happy to buy anything at the moment. Making sure each household can
get supply seems like it should be a priority.

~~~
andromeduck
You're assuming people don't split with friends downstream.

~~~
nl
Not really.

I think that happens, but from observation it's a downstream event usually in
reaction to shortages one of the friends is having.

------
downerending
They might be over-thinking it. Toilet paper is incredibly cheap to produce,
but most people put a very high price on their last roll, when they know there
might not be more. That makes for some interesting economics.

The "answer", at least for those with space, is to keep and rotate three or
six months of it, even though that sounds ridiculous. Or, alternatively, do
the bidet thing or even have a standby outhouse in back.

~~~
ineedasername
An outhouse doesn't actually solve the need for paper though. My backup plan
of last resort is to cut up a few old t-shirts into tp-square sizes. Wipe &
run them in a washer load by themselves and repeat as needed. I think I'd
choose darker ones-- it's not like they'd be any cleaner after a washing, but
I'd feel better about it.

~~~
r00fus
In India, we'd use a water jug and do a "manual bidet" \- you can even have
warm water - just fill up in the sink before sitting down. You do have to use
your hands but they're gonna get washed anyway.

~~~
sooheon
Would rather do this and wash thoroughly than mess about with strips of cloth.

~~~
andai
In much of the world, it is considered offensive to shake hands with your left
hand, because the left hand is used instead of toilet paper.

------
remote_phone
My friend owns a pharmacy in Canada. She said that it started with the
previous Wednesday when in a single night they suspended the NBA, Tom Hanks
announced he had coronavirus, and I think Trump stopped flights from Europe.

Her store and others were caught in a flurry of buying. Her daily sales were
double or triple what they normally should have been and her shelves became
empty because they didn’t anticipate it. It caused multiple days of empty
shelves because they order on Wednesday for the Friday and Saturday for
Monday, so basically they got hit hard Wednesday evening and then they could
only order for Monday. So the shelves were empty from Wednesday to Monday.
That creates fear.

However all the stores were hammered so the warehouse was empty. Since then
she has been getting half orders and the further shelter orders caused more
buying. So it hasn’t abated yet.

She has been sold out of masks since January and hand sanitizers for weeks.
Only recently did she get sold out of rubbing alcohol and cleaning products.
And then after the Wednesday she started selling out of basically everything.
It hasn’t stopped yet but she is getting shipments of sanitizer and cleaning
products but they are getting bought up immediately.

~~~
Scoundreller
I went to a Toronto Wal-Mart last Friday, and they were out of just about
every pain-reliever. Like, that's not going to save you your life from
anything!

~~~
mprev
One symptom of Coronavirus is a high fever and what we in the UK call
paracetamol can reduce the fever thereby reducing the risk of organ damage.

~~~
rsuelzer
Reducing fever, especially with NSAIDs has shown to lead to a higher mortality
rate, it suppresses your immune response. Moderate to high fever is good and
is natural response to infection Organ damage needs a very high temperature
106+. If you are below this, taking fever reducers is not a good thing to help
you recover from an infection. Fever reducers resulted in a 5 percent
mortality increase in flu. France has warned of a link between higher
mortality in young adults taking anti-febriles and Coronavirus.

[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) › pmc The effect
on mortality of antipyretics in the treatment of influenza infection:
systematic ...

~~~
leoedin
Paracetamol (acetaminophen/Tylenol) is not an NSAID, is not an anti-
inflammatory and there's no evidence that it has any negative effect on
outcomes. You're mixing it up with ibuprofen (Advil), which is an NSAID and
may result in worse outcomes.

The current medical advice is take paracetamol, but not ibuprofen.
[https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-
adults/](https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/paracetamol-for-adults/)

It helps to understand what you're talking about before writing in such an
authoratitive tone.

~~~
Scoundreller
The study linked systematically reviewed animal models of influenza and and
antipyretic use and found that aspirin, paracetamol and diclofenac increased
mortality.

They lamented that there weren’t any good trials in humans available to
review, so the impacts of antipyretics on influenza is still an open question,
but the animal models aren’t looking promising.

In other words: should you take antipyretics for the flu? Dunno for sure, but
I’ll avoid it based on the data that we do have.

------
LordAtlas
Wait till you folk discover a hand faucet or a bidet like we have over here.
It will change your world and leave your butts cleaner.

~~~
mbrameld
As a toilet paper user I've never experienced any problems that I can trace
back to having a dirty butt. I don't think my wiping technique is anything
special. Are you saying when you use toilet paper you're unable to clean
yourself well enough that it becomes an issue for you? What exactly is the
issue? What about your world changed other than the lack of toilet paper?

~~~
netsharc
If a bird shat on your arm would you just use tissue to wipe it away or would
you wash the arm with water, and soap if available?

In most parts of Asia, people use water, in combination with TP. Western
hygiene standards seem to be lacking in this area.

~~~
tedk-42
Ahahaha I love this because of how accurate it is.

For most its the unfamiliarity with the idea which prevents the rational
thinking behind it

~~~
mbrameld
It's not accurate at all, though. I use my arm and my asshole for completely
different things. There's no danger I'm going to accidentally wipe my asshole
across my face. If I shit on my counter I would clean it and disinfect it
immediately, but I shit in my toilet every day and only clean it every few
days and never disinfect it.

I like to live in reality and not a world of what-ifs. About 50% of my shits
are immediately followed by a shower. As far as I (or anybody else so far) can
tell, whether or not I followed the toilet paper up with a shower has
absolutely zero impact.

------
divbzero
If you pause to think about it is toilet paper _actually_ an essential good?
There are other ways…

~~~
cheschire
Two of my siblings were raised in cloth diapers due to our finances in those
years. A clean butt isn’t difficult to achieve cheaply. It just requires
getting a little more dirty than normal.

~~~
TeMPOraL
Which only shifts the demand to soap and other cleaning products.

~~~
im3w1l
Lye and fat and salt makes soap and glycerin. Should lye run out you can make
it from hardwood ashes. Should salt run out you can make it by evaporating sea
water. Mix glycerin with alcohol to make hand sanitizer.

~~~
bb123
Have you tried getting hold of isopropyl alcohol (or similar) recently?
Impossible :(

~~~
im3w1l
A pot-still seems like a doable weekend project.

------
froindt
I wonder what the current toilet paper manufacturers are going through right
now? I'm an industrial engineer, so production issues and supply/demand issues
are always of interest to me. A few possibilities:

* Adding shifts at overtime pay to meet demand (lower profit/unit, but more equipment utilization and total profit)

* Potentially higher freight charges (entirely unsure how freight rates are going these days compared to normal)

* Calloffs from employees from illness, exposure, or fear

* Lacking supply if they're working on a Vendor Managed Inventory (VMI) system - where the supplier owns inventory until pulled by a customer, at which time the supplier gets paid. These agreements often have parameters about stocking and forecast levels, which are typically fine, but then Sales talks about the "customer relationship" and wants to make drastic changes to how the factory runs (sub-optimizing production) to keep $bigCustomer happy.

Per the manager, the grocery store near me averages 10 units/day of toilet
paper sold (good size town in the Midwest, with many grocery stores). One day
about 2 weeks ago they sold 3,000 units. They have ~75 feet of shelf space (4
shelves high) dedicated to toilet paper. Literal semi's full of toilet paper
flying off the shelves. They now have a limit if 1 unit per trip.

I've been to the store twice since then and always check the toilet paper
aisle as a gauge of how they're doing. Still completely empty when I visit
after work.

COVID-19 doesn't show GI issues as a symptom. Consumption isn't going up
notably, but demand has been bonkers. _Everybody_ will have months of toilet
paper in their inventory at home, causing demand in the coming months to drop
significantly. They may need to reduce the number of shifts or eliminate
overtime at the factories.

Shelf space at grocery stores is expensive. If the toilet paper companies pay
for less shelf space, they may not get it back. Grocery stores won't be
excited to use that much space for a product that's moving at <50% of previous
volumes.

It really is a weird issue and I don't envy the people figuring out how to
deal with it.

~~~
jiveturkey
You missed one obvious reaction, the one I'd use: business as normal.

Why? Because spiking supply now will hurt them later. Usage hasn't/doesn't
actually go up. In fact, usage will go down by whatever percentage of the
population succumbs.

~~~
froindt
I agree from a purely production point of view. But then the marketing
director says "if we're the one on the shelves, people will remember our brand
positively and drive up brand loyalty/future sales".

------
dang
Discussed a bit at the time:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8648333](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8648333)

------
graton
Related is this video from The Atlantic about the same thing:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX_FTiRB5QI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX_FTiRB5QI)

Johnny Carson jokes about it and then people rush out and buy toilet paper
causing a shortage.

------
booleandilemma
The shortages in NY could be solved if shops just placed a limit on how much
you could buy. It’s all these wannabe preppers buying more than they need who
make it difficult for everyone else.

~~~
gridlockd
The reason _not_ to do that is that you don't want to cause customers -
especially those from NY - to have "that argument" with your staff, multiple
times each day.

The same amount of toilet paper - all of it - gets sold either way.

~~~
andai
The other day I heard, a store in Denmark put in tiered pricing to counteract
hoarding of hand sanitizers. Legally they can't limit the amount per customer,
but they can add a "limited quantity discount". So the regular price is $133
but the "just one" price is $5.

[https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/danish-store-instills-
pricing-...](https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/danish-store-instills-pricing-
trick-to-stop-hand-sanitizer-hoarders/)

------
mmhsieh
This reminds me of the current situation we are in because of coronavirus.


How do you really "Meet people at networking events"? - japanesejay
Hi HN!
For the last few years, I've been venturing into the consulting business, I mainly do UX focused web development and have built some mobile apps for my clients. It started as part-time freelance work and has slowly built up where I have a business partner and a few good people working with me on a part-time basis. I really want this to grow so I can stop moonlighting and treat this as a full-time gig (hard to do with the high cost of living in the bay area).
I've been trying to "network" and "meet people" but even at the last event (Vmworld), but everybody seemed chummy chummy with each other, the bloggers had their circle, the sales folks had their own circle and as an introverted "tech" guy, I couldn't create an opportunity for myself to jump into a conversation. I ended up talking to a few people but it all ended in small talk.
So HNers, I look to you guys for some advice. How do you approach people to initiate the conversations? I know having a hook helps, any other tactics worth noting?
======
limedaring
First, smaller is easier for meeting people and actually have worthwhile
conversations (jumping into a large group of well-known people at a conference
afterparty isn't going to create any new friends, normally).

Find any local meetups first and go there. I went to my first networking
conference, SXSW a few years ago, and met one person, who intro-ed me to three
others. Contact continued when we were all on the same flight home, and I
offered to drive them from the airport. These three then intro-ed me to new
people, who then intro-ed me to more... this is the best way, imho, to create
honest connections that don't disappear once you leave a party.

Also, Twitter is a pretty easy way to continue connections after you've met
someone briefly.

As for approaching people to initiate conversations, just do it. Jump in, say
hi, start listening, and speak up when you have the chance. But if you want to
actually add someone to your "network", find a way to follow up after so they
remember who you are.

~~~
GeneralMaximus
I'll add something to this: tag along with a friend who knows a few people at
whatever meetup you're attending.

~~~
limedaring
Definitely helps, though it sucks to be in situations where you don't know
anyone but still got to go meet people!

Also, coming with friends can have a downside, where you don't spend any time
meeting anyone new. I will often split up from whomever I arrived with to meet
new people on my own — sometimes it's better to do it apart.

------
dctoedt
When I've been at business events where I don't know anyone, I don't even
bother trying to introduce myself to the "important" folks. I seem to have
enjoyed such events the most when I've looked around for people in the same
boat as I; introduced myself; and asked them about themselves. I'll interject
bits of my own story when appropriate, but I try to keep the conversation
focused mostly on the other person.

Some open-ended questions I've found useful: _How did you end up at X company?
What got you into X field? What challenges do you see ahead for X field?_

After a few minutes, I'll smile and say, "hey, it's been great talking to
you," maybe swap business cards, and move on - rinse, repeat. If I can play
matchmaker and help get multiple new acquaintances talking to each other, so
much the better.

I figure life isn't a snapshot, it's a movie; if I keep going to these events,
and keep focusing on making others feel welcome and included (even if only by
me), in due course I'll end up getting to know the movers and shakers.

------
skowmunk
I am sorta similar, in the sense used to be more of a introverted/shy person.
A tip that I came across in an audio book helped - go early to such meetings
when there aren't so many people. Then, the 'circles' wouldn't have formed yet
and the early birds themselves would be looking for someone to converse with.
It would be easier for you to approach them and make some small talk.

Once you get to acquaint yourself with a few, you will find it easier to join
a circle later without being held up by the thought that you don't know
'anybody' in that circle.

Good luck.

~~~
japanesejay
I'll have to try harder on meeting the early birds. The last few events where
I arrived early, most people were hiding their faces behind their laptops,
ipad, smartphone, etc.

------
nolite
go with a partner or two.

------
Shaan
Offer to help in area where you r n expert. Do background research on people
you know r attending and prepare a list of things they might find interesting
- do small talk - take it to a point where u can offer your service - even for
free.


EC2 Instances with FPGAs Now Generally Available - jeffbarr
https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/ec2-f1-instances-with-fpgas-now-generally-available/
======
freesecurity
Nice. Sounds amazing.


Thoughts on Lance Armstrong [video] - kennyma
http://danariely.com/2013/01/18/thoughts-on-lance-armstrong/
======
chubot
I like Dan Ariely, and most of what he says in this video is true. However he
doesn't address the whole Lance Armstrong story, and there is one correction
to be made.

He says that it's possible that Lance Armstrong took EPO as a cancer patient,
and that made it easier for him to keep taking it as a performance enhancing
drug.

Lance tried a similar tactic in his interview last night -- he explained that
his cancer changed him. It made him more of a bully, and more of a fighter,
and he kind of justified taking testosterone since he had testicular cancer.
However, Oprah had to point out that he was taking performance-enhancing drugs
BEFORE he had cancer. So the cancer is a scapegoat.

Second -- people don't really fault Lance Armstrong for doping. I'm sure it's
true that everybody was doping. And Ariely correctly points out that that
makes it much easier for someone to justify to themselves.

What distinguished Armstrong is going over the top to destroy people who were
telling the truth. He was vicious about attacking and suing people who told
the truth, and trying to ruin their reputations, while he knew he was in the
wrong. Oprah confronted him on this and he was like "oops ... sorry"

I watched the whole Oprah interview last night. I don't have a big interest in
competitive cycling, nor have I really followed the Lance Armstrong story very
much. But I did come away with the impression that he is emotionally
"different" or verging on psychopathic. I don't want to venture too much into
pop psychology, but he does seem to follow the stereotype of a "psychopath
CEO". The only thing he cares about is results (and it worked spectacularly
for a time), and he has literally no emotions about the tactics that got him
there. I'm not trying to cast moral judgement, but just saying what is pretty
apparent.

But in retrospect this is obvious... anyone who could so viciously and baldly
and publicly lie for decades, when so many people knew otherwise (all the
cyclists he rode with), has some weird psychology going on. It's not normal.

~~~
TillE
> Second -- people don't really fault Lance Armstrong for doping.

Of course they do. Why wouldn't they? He's a cheat. The fact that many other
people were cheating too is irrelevant to how he's judged for that. That just
makes professional cycling as a whole look terrible too.

Even if he had been a saint in every other way, he's still a disgraceful
cheat.

~~~
chubot
Well, Ariely in this video is making the point that, as far as human nature is
concerned, it does matter that everyone else cheated. It makes it socially
acceptable.

If I were an honest competitive cyclist at the Tour de France level I would
care that he doped. But if you believe the common wisdom, there were almost no
such people :)

Anyway, Barry Bonds doped and so did a million other athletes. My point was
that Lance Armstrong took it to an entirely different level by trying to
destroy others to cover up what he did, and what he KNEW that others knew he
did. It is really beyond brazen.

------
clicks
If anyone saw the Oprah interview, I think it's clear by now that Lance
Armstrong is a sociopath. Even his admittance was a very calculated move
intended to curb additional financial loss (even though it was supposed to be
a tell-all interview, he chose not to talk about a handful of things; and a
good half of things were straight lies: UCI gifts he made were not 'bribes',
he did not use drugs after 2005, etc.). His appearance on Oprah was a
calculated move to avoid jailtime and position himself for the coming
onslaught of legal trouble.

------
donebizkit
Irrelevant points. He tries to deflect the issue from Lance and he shouldn't.
I don't care if Lance cheated. I don't care if any athlete cheats as long as
they get their deserved penalties from their respective sports authorities.
The issue here is the hypocrite image that Lance and his PR team drew to the
rest of the world. Everyone through of him as superman. He sold his image as a
believer and fighter while he was none of that. Again, I don't care about
cheaters but I despise hypocrite preachers.

~~~
brudgers
We've heard of Lance Armstrong because his performances were entertaining. To
pretend now as if our interest was his moral purity is disingenuous.

------
defrost
Bearing in mind that Lance Armstrong is as much a cyclist as Red Bull is an
energy drink it might be of interest to watch an advertising and marketing
centred discussion of whether the strategy of losing the doping war but
winning the PR battle is a good one.

> Is there a point where running away is the right PR move? How much immunity
> does a cancer charity buy you? Why are his sponsors standing by their
> cycling-man?

<http://www.abc.net.au/tv/gruenplanet/pages/s3583424.htm>

Episode on Vimeo:

<http://vimeo.com/48928785> (Lance Armstrong discussion starts @ 3 minutes in)

------
jmix
I always find these video logs to be a very inefficient way to communicate.
Having watched through the whole thing, the main argument that Ariely is
making here is that there is a much larger problem than just the "Lance
Armstrong problem." People do these PEDs because they have a sense that
"everyone else is doing it."

Now, it's not clear if everyone else was doing it in this case, or whether the
crooks were convinced (falsely) that everyone else was doing it. Ariely
doesn't draw this distinction, but it is critical. If you want to clean up the
sport, it's not sufficient to make sure that everyone is clean. It has to be
so sparkling clean that no one should even suspect that others could be
cheating. Unless all the participants are convinced that everyone else is
clean, they will have the motivation to cheat themselves, which in turn makes
others cheat, and so forth.

And the vlog didn't get into Armstrong's psychology. I would have liked to
hear how the cognitive dissonance between his private reality and public
(fake) persona change his personality. I would suspect that, even if one does
not begin the game as a sociopath, living for decades with a lie would turn
one into a sociopath.

~~~
snogglethorpe
> _Now, it's not clear if everyone else was doing it in this case, or whether
> the crooks were convinced (falsely) that everyone else was doing it._

It's professional cycling... pretty much everybody that made it to the top was
doing it.

Yeah there are probably exceptions, but the pervasiveness of doping in cycling
is surreal. If you're actually in the top echelon and stand a chance of
winning, there's a very good chance that some of your chief competitors are
doping. Obviously this puts even good people in a real quandary...

------
crazycatmum
He was very controlled until he talked about his Son (fake or real tears?).
His answers seemed text book and learnt. He is arrogant and seems incapable of
grasping just how 'low' he's behaved . I feel sorry for his children who will
forever be tainted with 'your dad's a cheat'. He should face criminal
prosecution. This interview doesn't cut it. He's definately a Sociopath. I
think it teaches us that if you weave a web of lies you can actually start
believing them to be true. Crazycatmum warsash

------
rikacomet
Though, I'm believing it now that the confession closes a chapter, A few
things still linger in my heart about this whole thing.

A. They still can't prove, how he did it, how he was not caught for so many
years, and barely proved that he did it, which in itself is not concrete.

B. It appears he is being forced to make all these statements, to do what? So
he can be allowed to come back to sports again, his life's passion. If I'm a
sportsmen, of that degree, I might would be vulnerable to blackmail if they
took my one passion away.

C. After I read his Wiki page, it appears, to be case of sour grapes for some
of his competitors, who pursued these charges against him over and over again.
I mean, ok, we know now they were right, but what before that? They were no
forensic experts, all the accusations were based on doubt and jealousy back
then.

D. There is something terribly wrong with how this case has been pursued
legally, a lot of things don't sum up. Like until 2009, UCI had him clear in a
row with a doping official, at least officially, meaning, if any doubts, they
were not being actively pursued by UCI. The biggest bolts in this story were
by 2 of his former subordinates, who were both "Fired" before turning hostile.
And it was actually Times Newspaper, that followed it up with a reprint of a
2004 book in 2012 (8 years later), the same time when another newspaper
'interestingly' sued a sportsman, i.e Armstrong.

~~~
robinhowlett
A. We know pretty well how he did it - all he needed to do was stay within the
limits and there is considerable evidence that the UCI and testing labs were
suggesting to him how to do that. When the UCI picked a max hematocrit number
of 50%, it was an invitation to the athletes to dope up to that limit. When he
came back to competition in 2009 & 2010, the USADA report clearly states that
his blood passport profile shows almost certain non-legal manipulation.

B. He isn't being forced to do anything. He had the opportunity to challenge
USADA's report in arbitration; he declined and again denied he had ever doped.
Going on TV to speak with a talk-show host after you have retired is not a
coerced move, especially to say that you have been lying for 15 years. Yes, he
may want to return to some kind of competition (triathlons) and needs his life
sentenced to be reduced to the minimum 8 years to do this. But oh look, he
says the last time he ever doped was 2005 (not when he raced in 2009 or 2010,
how about that?), which would mean he could return to sport in 2013.

C. George Hincapie never tested positive either, had an even longer career
than Armstrong and was a long-time friend of Armstrong. He admitted to doping
for years and testified against Lance. There's a rather simple truth here and
it isn't driven by doubt and jealousy.

D. I'm not even sure what you are trying to say. But I imagine it is similar
to arguments made before about scored rivals and journalists seeking
vengeance. I've followed pro cycling for many years now; the truth is much
more boring. The sport was rife with drugs, Armstrong would do anything to win
and I don't think to this day he thinks he did anything truly wrong.

I watched the movie "Shattered Glass" two nights ago. It had this great scene:

Caitlin Avey: What the hell did you do to Steve? He called me from his car,
hysterical. I asked him what was wrong, he said, "ask Chuck?" Chuck Lane: I
fired him, okay? Not suspended, fired. Because this wasn't an isolated
incident Caitlin. He cooked a dozen of them, maybe more. And we're going to
have to go through them, you and I. We're going to have to go through all of
them, now. Caitlin Avey: No, the only one was Hack Heaven. He told me that
himself. Chuck Lane: If he were a stranger to you, if he was a guy you were
doing a piece about, pretend that guy told you he'd only did it once. Would
you take his word for it? Of course not! You'd dig and you'd bury him! And
you'd feel offended if anyone told you not to.

~~~
rikacomet
I will check the movie out, well, I only said what I said, on a "what if"
basis.

A. Indeed they have a idea of how he did it, but not exactly how, 7 years
without getting caught is not something, you can only pull off with the little
bit of sophistication you described.

B. He is being forced partially, from what I read, he has been given a
lifetime ban from all competitive sports, unless he confesses it under oath
and names accomplice.

C. Indeed its valid, what you said about Goerge Hincapie, but it is as same as
saying, "You are a criminal if your neighbor is a criminal"

D. What I meant is that, that it was not UCI that were actively pursuing the
case of Armstrong at least until 2009, but, it was reopened in 2012, after
Times published a extract of a book written in 2004, which contained
statements of Lance's ex-masseuse, who made these allegation without concrete
proof herself, and was fired EARLIER for reasons unknown. The second big
statement was by another Ex-employee, his personal trainer.

Check the Lance's wikipedia page:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong>

------
AndrewWorsnop
Is there a transcript?

------
alpeb
Lance says he wasn't caught because the drugs were already out of his system
during the races. So was the doping just for training? I'm not clear on that
part.

------
rayiner
Ugly couch, but I love Ariely and it's an interesting little talk.

~~~
justinator
I like this guy a whole lot, too. Let's give this guy a mic!


Researchers can slip an undetectable trojan into Intel’s Ivy Bridge CPUS - gabemart
http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/researchers-can-slip-an-undetectable-trojan-into-intels-ivy-bridge-cpus/
======
tptacek
No, researchers _could theoretically_ slip a difficult-to-detect trojan into
Ivy Bridge _if they controlled the manufacturing process for the chip_. The
paper is extremely interesting and important, but this headline does it a
grave disservice. There is actually nothing specific to Ivy Bridge about the
technique; Ivy Bridge is simply a case study in the paper for how the
technique might be valuable to an attacker.

~~~
petermonsson
The choice of BIST over scan/ATPG makes this attack theoretically possible on
Ivy Bridge. If Intel had used scan/ATPG then this attack could not have worked
even in theory. Unfortunately, I don't have the insight to understand why
scan/ATPG could introduce a backdoor.

Disclaimer: I don't think that this attack is even theoretically feasible
given just a few real world constraints. I am just nitpicking

~~~
archer174
Scan chains by design, give you the ability to load each flop with whatever
value you want. Then you can toggle the clock and see the result. If you were
very resilient about this you may be able to gather information about the
structure. Without a GDS or netlist this is all very far fetched and unlikely.
I've said before, but it is far more likely to bribe a rogue designer than to
introduce back doors at this level.

------
ddalex
Alarmist title - you can't execute code undetected, as you would think from
the title, you can alter the manufacturing process to poison the random number
generator. The alteration is not detectable using current testing procedures.

It's not any big deal, people already are treating the RDRAND instruction as
poisoned.

~~~
makomk
Before: it's no big deal, how likely is is that someone could compromise
RDRAND without anyone noticing After: what's the big fuss, everyone who counts
already treats RDRAND as compromised

Why does this always happen with stories like this one?

~~~
denosa
Possibly because almost every single post like this brings out the same
apologists. The same apologists get voted sky high.

The proper question is how do the same apologists get voted to the moon and
posts such as this get deleted?

We already know of corporate astroturfing. Could that be happening on HN? Nah,
unpossible.

~~~
harshreality
Are you suggesting NSAstroturfing?

The government has engaged in that sort of thing before.
[http://rezn8d.net/2012/10/19/us-defense-contractors-sock-
pup...](http://rezn8d.net/2012/10/19/us-defense-contractors-sock-puppet-
scheme-busted-your-social-media-is-infected/)

------
lawnchair_larry
Worst headline ever. Ars is very bad at reporting on security issues.

------
chacham15
> In an e-mail, Paar stressed that no hardware trojans have ever been found
> circulating in the real world and that the techniques devised in the paper
> are mere proofs of concept.

No need to get all worried about this type of hack. First of all, it is just
an idea, not something actually found. Secondly, the hack would be all too
easy to detect: run rdrand 2^31 + x times and see if x is a repeated sequence.

~~~
chatman
It is not "too easy to detect" a bad PRNG from a good one.

~~~
ambiate
I agree. Sounds like a number theory halting problem.

Generate sequences of numbers continually, ad infinitum, and determine if
distribution rates are (?).

How would one begin to fill in that question mark? A PRNG that spits out three
million 'zeros' and a single 'four' is as reliable as a PRNG that spits out an
even distribution of random numbers.

~~~
claudius
Isn’t the problem with detecting bad randomness that you can’t be _sure_ about
your decision?

That is, if you accept a certain probability of falsely identifying a RNG as
biased, I don’t see why this should be a fundamentally difficult problem, at
the very least for the generator with four million 0s and a single 1: The
probability that a good RNG spits out less than a thousand 1s in four million
queries is negligible compared to the probability that it returns between 1.5
and 2.5 million 1s.

Of course, it will be harder to detect more sophisticatedly broken generators,
but still, without requiring certainty, it should be possible to make some
sensible claims?

~~~
Someone
For background info, read the art of computer programming, chapter 3.

For practical help, see
[http://www.stat.fsu.edu/pub/diehard/](http://www.stat.fsu.edu/pub/diehard/)
(linked from
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diehard_tests))

------
tsaoutourpants
<3 the Trojan Horse from Burning Man 2011 :D

------
foldor
This is interesting, but I wonder what the real world application of this
change would be. According to Linus, the Intel RdRand is only used as one of
many sources of entropy in /dev/random. So even if it were compromised it
wouldn't have a large impact on security.

Source: [http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-
remove-...](http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/linus-torvalds-remove-
rdrand-from-dev-random-4/responses/9066)

~~~
chm
Somebody posted this link on another discussion: [http://cm.bell-
labs.com/who/ken/trust.html](http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html)

There's no way to know for sure, but I don't think this is a problem for the
average consumer. I'd like to think serious black hats are not amateur
fishermen who use a bait to catch anything that passes by. I picture them more
like a sniper waiting for the perfect shot on a valuable target. In other
words, yes every system could be compromised, but the ones that are will be
the ones holding more valuable information. And those are few relative to the
mass of average joes. But then one might get an advantage from controlling a
botnet, and use it to attack more valuable targets.

I don't really know :)

~~~
sliverstorm
It's the same as security always is. "What are my enemies capable of" is an
absolutely critical component of the security equation that cannot be
overlooked.

------
ffrryuu
NSA can do much better than that. US tech can no longer be trusted.

------
phazmatis
Doesn't sound undetectable to me. Isn't this what the die hard tests are for?

~~~
Sae5waip
No it's not. The die hard tests don't help against malice.

Consider this PRNG:

`"random"_bitstream` := AES('00000000...', NSA_KEY)


Andreessen-backed virtual workforce MobileWorks (YCS11) does 1M tasks in year 1 - anandkulkarni
http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/14/mobileworks-seed-new-direction/

======
pbreit
I really like seeing all of these companies like MobileWorks, Exec, Uber, et
al that are solving problems that are very challenging but in more of an
operational way than technical (although technology obviously plays a large
role).

------
physcab
I'm impressed with the accuracy of MobileWorks over mechanical Turk (or pure
MT- not sure if MW just filters workers heavily). I tried a receipt
transcription task where I fed the same instructions and same photo to both
services. Out of the box, MW was 100% while MT was about 90% for the same
cost.

~~~
prayag
As Anand said we have a separate workforce. We have a bunch of algorithmic and
social elements that we have developed for improving quality. In fact,we have
written an IEEE paper on how to improve quality in crowdsourcing.

[http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bjoern/papers/kulkarni-
mobilewor...](http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bjoern/papers/kulkarni-mobileworks-
ieee2012.pdf)

------
kurtvarner
Where do they hire their workforce from? Are they overseas or American
workers?

[edit] The main reason I was asking this, was I find it really surprising that
you're able to hire skilled/educated workers at an outsourcing rate. It's even
more surprising that you're finding them organically through press. I'd
imagine most TechCrunch readers are over qualified for that kind of work.
Kudos to you for making it happen though.

~~~
prayag
TechCrunch is not the only press we get. A TV station in Jamaica covered us
and we got a lot of workers from there.

Even when we are in press in the tech circles we get a lot of worker growth by
the workers are referred from the work at home or stay at home mom forums. My
guess is that someone reposts about us at the more appropriate forums and that
sets the ball rolling.

Having said that we have seen that some very qualified people (who might be
reading techcrunch or MIT tech review) have joined our workforce.

~~~
omegant
how much it is the average salary currently?. I mean for somebody doing 40
hours/week.

------
jayzee
This is awesome stuff. I am glad that they are attacking the accuracy angle
since for a lot of tasks I care a lot about accuracy and not so much on saving
the last $.

------
prayag
We are also launching a new and improved API today.
<https://www.mobileworks.com/developers/>

------
bravura
I do a lot of crowdsourcing (see here <http://weusethat.com/metaoptimize>) and
I'm curious to use MobileWorks.

What is the pricing for small jobs?

I have a lot of small jobs, so "contact us for a quote" isn't appropriate when
my jobs change often.

~~~
anandkulkarni
Pricing is $5 per worker per hour.

~~~
bravura
Is there a way to achieve "guaranteed" high quality on non-easy tasks?

I have a binary classification labelling problem. The labels are very
unbalanced (95% no, 5% yes). Answering each question takes a few minutes of
web research.

I ran this job on CrowdFlower with gold standard data for quality-control, and
using 5 annotators for each question. Nonetheless, I received 99% no answers.

Right now I have about 1000 instances to label. There could be more in the
future, if I am confident that I will get high quality labeling.

~~~
anandkulkarni
Yes: you can achieve high quality with only a few respondents because the
workforce is higher quality and the data is reviewed by a human in the crowd.

Drop us a line and we'll set it up: support@mobileworks.com

------
dm8
I've worked with everyone on their founding team at Cal and they are all
amazing! Kudos to MW team :)

------
zio99
Anand, congrats on the milestone!


Behind Steve Jobs’ Macworld exit - Flemlord
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/12/17/behind-steve-jobs-macworld-exit/
======
sidsavara
Dude what a domain!

apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com

I almost thought my browser had been hijacked. But it's ok - all is well.

------
halo
Well, that didn't really tell us anything.

------
rms
Steve Jobs got tired of going in public and have people speculate about his
health based on his appearance.

Of course, we all have good reason to speculate about his health, given the
survival rates for his condition.


AmEx's answer to PayPal/Square/etc. - taylorbuley
http://www.serve.com/

======
apress
They are indeed charging the Paypal standard 2.9% plus 30 cents. See section
10 "fees" here <http://www.serve.com/legal.aspx#Serve_User_Agreement>

I don't quite get what they have over PayPal, let alone any less expensive
services.

------
aidenn0
I assume this is what they did with their acquisition of revolutionCard?

------
viggity
I couldn't find their fees anywhere on their website, so I can only assume
they're going to charge the traditional 2+% + $.30 for each transaction.

I'd much rather use Dwolla (<http://www.dwolla.com>). They charge $.25 flat.
That's it. And they have iPhone and Android clients. They don't have a limit
on how much you can transfer, either (serve limits to $1000/day and
$2500/month).


The *Santa* Brand Book - GotAnyMegadeth
http://www.quietroom.co.uk/santa_brandbook/one

======
GotAnyMegadeth
"Our brand essence is the very essence of our brand"


Macintosh.js: Mac OS 8 as an electron app - PStamatiou
https://github.com/felixrieseberg/macintosh.js
======
dmitrybrant
I really struggle to not be an Electron hater, but... why, oh why??? Basilisk
II is already a thoroughly cross-platform piece of software that runs
beautifully as a native Windows/Mac/Linux app. What can possibly be the appeal
to re-compile Basilisk into Javascript, so that it runs at less than half the
speed, packaged in a full Chromium/Node installation?

The total download size of the native Basilisk II is about 8 MB (not counting
your disk image). The size of this Electron monstrosity is about 180 MB! I
feel like I should be wearing a straitjacket. Does no one else see things
going terribly wrong?


If It's Important, Don't Hack It - vazquez
http://insideintercom.io/if-its-important-dont-hack-it/
======
programminggeek
The tricky part is getting people to understand what really drives their
business and at the right level. It's not even just picking the right metrics,
it's understanding them enough to take action on them.

My metric for metrics is to track things that will change your behavior. If a
metric changes and you don't, then it's a pointless metric.

I've seen many companies track reasonable metrics, only to do nothing about
them when they change. They just try to "do more" of whatever they were
already doing.

Doing the right things with the right metrics is not a skill that everybody
has and not everybody can learn.

~~~
einhverfr
This is true. Also beyond these problems, I am going to say something else.

Marketing is not the result of a few actions. It is and should be something
woven into _all_ business activities. It should be part of your email
signatures, participating on social networking sites, etc. All of the little
things build up and the thins which really help with building a presence.

There are legitimate marketing hacks but they don't involve tricking users.
They involve living and breathing marketing, and realizing that building your
business means a billion _little_ marketing hacks, not a few big ones.

~~~
lukethomas
Best thing I've read on HN in a while.

------
jtbigwoo
This is why the the Silicon Valley high-growth game is so strange.

In a normal company, the metrics would center around, "Are we making money?"
"What sort of things point to us making more money?"

In the SV game, it's "Are we attracting attention?" "What sort of things will
cause us to get more attention?"

~~~
mbesto
> _In the SV game, it 's "Are we attracting attention?" "What sort of things
> will cause us to get more attention?"_

It's not particularly strange if you break down the business models that
dominate the SV ecosystem. These companies you speak of are merely procurement
channels. Think of them as oil drills that suck up as many attention spans as
physically possible. And largely they are all competing with each other to
strike the next big oil well. Not unlike the oil industry they put massive
amounts of capital into the discovery and refinement of such oil wells. The
likes of Facebook, Google, etc are simply refineries who sell this attention
(refined by analytics and insight) off to the Fords, Coca-Colas, etc of the
world.

~~~
tomrod
That's a solid analogy. Thank you.

------
jlebron2
I hate when apps ask to post to Facebook or Twitter on my behalf. It's
uncomfortable and puts the user in an awkward position. Great article, hope
some of these companies take note!

------
justin_vanw
This article is right.

But, what's the point of articles like this?

Few people are so stupid that they believe moving some number is the same as
doing well. There are lots of times when moving some arbitrary number is
rewarded, and we know that humans respond to incentives. It's perfectly
logical, and even the best strategy in some situations.

People who pull tactical games like this might be able to get by, or do well,
or become captains of dying industries, but fundamentally we can probably
agree they are assholes. Plenty go along because they are playing the junior
edition same game with the junior edition of the same strategy. When there
isn't a risk of repercussions, or when they feel like they have a chance to
gain credibility, or whatever motivations big smart apes really act out of,
they loudly laugh at and mock the asshole; because of the hurt they feel at
wasting the part of their life that was spent doing something so obviously
worthless, and because of the shame and regret of compromising themselves, and
because it's a good move.

Some people have real problems. Some people don't get enough food to eat.
Someone could say that it's a form of privilege to have problems like "I don't
believe in my job". It almost certainly is.

Somewhere in some country where people die of things that people just don't
die of other places, there are people officially working on things, and money
being spent, all kinds of activity done because someone feels like that is
their best strategy, and the people involved know it's stupid and pointless
and a waste, and they know there are people suffering that could suffer less.

It's easy to play along. It's easy to play a strategy that maximizes personal
outcomes. In fact, the people at the top almost certainly got there by playing
such a strategy. It seems likely that it's an evolutionarily stable strategy,
despite the implication that a lot more suffering is going to happen.

~~~
destraynor
I wrote the piece, it seems to have been very well received.

I've read your 5 paragraphs and I can't really understand what you're saying.

~~~
justin_vanw
I'm saying that your advice is pointless, because nobody who could benefit
from your advice chases a metric because they don't realize the things you say
in the article. The things you say are obvious, and anyone who doesn't find
them obvious is so profoundly stupid that there are thousands of basic skills
they lack besides the one your advice corrects.

They chase metrics because they are in a situation where moving those numbers
does something. In the case of the startup you mention, they could use the
user count graph to raise money, which is probably what they were trying to
do.

I go on to say that doing things like moving a metric for its own sake is
really an example of deceptive signaling, which is pervasive in human affairs.
On the way I point out the fact that deceptive signaling is often performed by
a team of people, and many of the team members or employees actively work on
such things despite having to grapple with moral reservations, and I talk
about that for a bit, and point out they are not really innocent, but are
acting primarily out of self interest.

Next, I talk about how many or most of the major problems in the world are due
to resources being wasted because someone calculates that they can benefit
more by using those resources to engage in deceptive signaling than by helping
people, and they have many accomplices that recognize what is happening but
assist anyway.

Finally, I point out that this is likely a dominant strategy, so there is
almost no way to become powerful or remain in power except by engaging in such
activities (using available resources in the way that maximizes power rather
than any other consideration, such as preventing starvation), and I close by
expressing my regret that this is so.

------
marcamillion
This article is dead on the money. I think this comes back to people having a
hard time discovering the value that their product offers customers.

They may hear that 2+ invites, and 3 projects 'activates' the customer - but
they don't truly understand what that means and why that provides value.

I have noticed that with some of my clients too, and other entrepreneurs I
talk to.

That's one of the reasons I am starting to write more about
discovering/understanding value.

The first such post is 'Redefining MVP to Minimum Valuable Product'[1] because
I think that's a perfect place to start - plus it is where I have been
noticing this issue pop-up more and more in my work.

I think the entire industry does need to take a step back and really start re-
evaluating the way we analyze/discover value. It feels like it has been lost
with everybody trying to go too fast and 'hack' everything.

[1] - [http://5kmvp.com/blog/2013/09/17/redefining-mvp-minimum-
valu...](http://5kmvp.com/blog/2013/09/17/redefining-mvp-minimum-valuable-
product/)

------
mistercow
I'm glad that I know a good term for "false proxies" now. It seems to be a
problem that comes up all the time in wildly different contexts. I sometimes
call it "painting a banana yellow", but that doesn't necessarily convey the
meaning to someone unless I've previously explained the analogy.

------
sirtel
[Google+ growth-hacked their way to 170 million users,...]

It is just like a math expression: Google+ growth-hacked.

If "Yahoo!" can be inserted in this sentence, it would be funnier.

------
joeblau
Is this the correct use of the term "Growth Hacking"? I thought it was a
person who works on side projects to increase their personal development
outside of work.

As far as the meat of the article, I feel like this is spot on. The challenge
I think is that a lot of people, including PG, have said they want to see 10%+
growth [1]. Customer acquisition is a very easy thing to hack if you know how
to play the social game, but in the end, it comes down to product.

[1] -
[http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html](http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html)

~~~
JonnieCache
_Did you laugh at the bill hicks routine about marketers killing themselves
when you were a teenager, but now want to take that highly paid SV position
without an existential crisis? Have we got the job title for you!_

------
hawleyal
Misleading title.

~~~
calinet6
_Intriguing_ title.

------
corresation
"Had Google+ focused on a metric of “Users who choose to go to Google+ and
share at least 2 updates per week“, they would have focused their efforts on
delivering value to users rather than popups that drive numbers."

The Google+ foundation is all there -- they already focused on that: it really
is the foundation of a brilliant social network, and I prefer it purely given
that they don't decimate photos by the horrid overcompression that Facebook
does. Their problem now is purely a network problem in that people don't see
the point of sharing updates there given that many of the people they share
them with aren't there. I fail to see how this example supports what they are
saying whatsoever.

~~~
aidos
OT My recollection of the G+ scenario is that they stunted it themselves - for
whatever reason. By the time the people I knew actually had access I'd lost
interest in waiting for my friends to show up. They arrived to find that after
a month nothing was going on and they lost interest. I'm not sure how it's
doing these days but it felt like a massive missed opportunity.

~~~
darth_aardvark
Completely agree with this. Me and some other friends were legitimately
excited for Google+ when it was released as beta but couldn't get an invite.
By the time it went public nobody cared enough to fill out a profile.

~~~
drzaiusapelord
Dont worry, if you use gmail, youtube, or android you already have a profile
ready for you.

This idea of shoving everyone into G+ as your default google sign-on and
identity is pretty controversial. Most everyone I talk to about it finds it
annoying. So they went from being exclusionary to being almost mandatory. Not
sure what the long term plan is here. Google probably doesn't know either.
They rushed a facebook clone for their own reasons and now here it is, a
virtual ghost town.


Ask HN: How much copying another person's software idea is frowned upon? - MiaDavis
I have recently discovered a really beautiful and brilliantly designed SaaS app that I am now using every day. I wanted to learn from it, and, as an exercise, to practice my frontend dev skills, I have essentially copied this app.
My design is a bit different, and I've improved a couple of things, but it's still essentially the same app(it's really hard to significantly improve upon, the original author has really done it right).
Now I realize, that if I will launch my version to the public, I could make a lot of money and achieve my dream of running a profitable SaaS. I'm highly confident that it will work, and there's plenty of space in the market for both of us. I'm also pretty sure that I won't run into copyright issues - my app is using a different tech stack and doesn't share any of the code with the original.
But I'm feeling a bit guilty for doing this, it feels like stealing. The original app is built by two very smart and good people, and is beloved by many users. Even though I will probably end up evolving this project in a different direction/niche, I'm still unsure if it's an okay thing to do.
How would you guys look at this? Do you think it's evil? Will it harm my reputation? Would you strongly dislike a person who's done something like this?
======
abstractspoon
I know this is software and software is unlike other stuff, but if we were
talking about a sport shoe, car design or other 'thing', where a lot of time,
effort and money had clearly been spent then I would consider it unethical to
copy it too closely without being clearly innovative in some area.

It's not just an 'idea' that you are copying, it's the actual design and UX
implementation.

Imagine you were talking about MS Word or Photoshop...

------
mindcrime
> How would you guys look at this?

Neutral

> Do you think it's evil?

No.

> Will it harm my reputation?

Probably not.

> Would you strongly dislike a person who's done something like this?

No.

Ideas are cheap... execution counts. For any profitable business, there are
always going to be people who come along and deploy the "fast follower"
strategy or otherwise copy the core idea. Do you hate Walmart for copying the
idea of Sears or Kmart? Do you hate Linus for copying the idea of Unix? Do you
hate Apple for copying the idea of a GUI for PARC? Do you hate Microsoft for
then copying the same idea from Apple?

As long as you're sure that you are on solid legal footing as far as not
literally copying anything that is copyrighted by the other company (including
things like images and CSS styling, etc.) then I don't see a problem with it.
Especially if you do have ideas of you own that you plan to incorporate, that
deviate from the existing site.

~~~
MiaDavis
Thank you for your reply! This is good.


Keep your source code SIMPLE - kevingoslar
https://medium.com/@kevingoslar/keep-your-source-code-simple-d5873cb854dc
======
taberiand
My feeling is these paradigms, SOLID and SIMPLE, boil down to basically: small
objects, connected minimally, though interfaces.

SIMPLE appears to be leaning even more towards the functional programming side
of things; I think we should probably just get it over with and accept that
composition of functions operating on immutable data structures is just the
right way to go.

~~~
tobr
Is there a language that leans heavily towards immutable data, but steers
clear of the, shall we say, _dorkier_ side of functional programming?

~~~
ISO-morphism
This is Clojure. It's functional, but more as a side effect of focusing
intently on simple, immutable, persistent data structures and their
compositions. I'd strongly recommend looking into it, along with many of the
presentations by its initial author Rich Hickey.

~~~
BoorishBears
Imo no Lisp variant can claim to not be in the "dorkier" side of things
("dorkier" being read as "hard to approach" in my eyes).

I'd say Kotlin over Clojure.

~~~
adamkl
I’d suggest you watch Rich’s talk “Simple made easy”. [1]

It’s one of his main points that something like a language being “hard to
approach” can be overcome by spending a little effort to learn it (as opposed
to sticking with something like Kotlin just because its easy to pick up
because it’s familiar). The benefits of learning the unfamiliar (in his case,
he’s speaking specifically about Clojure) being that it allows you to write
code that is much simpler to reason about.

I have no particular beef with Kotlin (or most any languages... right tool for
the job and all), but I have lately become infatuated with Clojure and many of
Rich’s viewpoints.

[1] [https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-
Easy/](https://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy/)

~~~
BoorishBears
Eh, I've used languages that were "hard to approach", one of my favorites
(Erlang) is one of those (I use quotations especially because learning all of
Erlang's syntax takes about a day).

This is a misapplication of the presentation really. It speaks to a level
above selecting a language and is really about the design of systems.

Picking up Kotlin or Clojure is not "harder to approach" by virtue of what's
provided in this context, it's harder because Clojure syntax uses parenthesis.

Like that's literally it.

Clojure with the same exact constructs represented with more C-like syntax
would, at the level the presentation speaks to, allow the same level of
simplicity.

I think a lot of developers feel "It looks funny" is not a fair critique of a
useful tool, but just look at Erlang vs Elixr. I love Erlang, much more than I
like Elixr, but Elixr gained mind share in large part because it's Ruby-like.

Cognitive overhead is lower working with a language that at least "looks
like", what you're used to, and more developers know C-like languages, thus a
language like Kotlin is "easier to approach" but necessarily "easier" in the
way the presentation talks about

~~~
ISO-morphism
> Clojure with the same exact constructs represented with more C-like syntax
> would, at the level the presentation speaks to, allow the same level of
> simplicity.

I don't think this is true. I think it would be _easier_ for "most people,"
but definitely not _simpler_. Easy meaning close at hand, simple meaning one
strand, one braid, independent, less context necessary. Clojure syntax is the
AST of the program, right there in front of you, in literal notation. There
are fewer special cases, fewer moving parts interacting. C syntax requires
spinning up a virtual machine in your mind and executing multiple statements.
C is _easier_ because we've already spent the time and effort to _familiarize_
ourselves with it, but it has more complexity. Compare a 954 line ANTLR
grammar for C [1] with a 261 line Clojure grammar [2].

> Cognitive overhead is lower working with a language that at least "looks
> like", what you're used to, and more developers know C-like languages, thus
> a language like Kotlin is "easier to approach" but necessarily "easier" in
> the way the presentation talks about.

I would agree, using Rich's definitions of simple and easy, that Kotlin is
easier for the majority of developers than Clojure. This follows immediately
from the definition of easy.

> This is a misapplication of the presentation really. It speaks to a level
> above selecting a language and is really about the design of systems.

I would recommend Rich Hickey's talk "The Language of the System" [3]. The
programming language(s) used are part(s) of the system and have an effect on
its design. I don't think this is a misapplication of the "Simple made Easy"
presentation, I think it hits the nail on the head.

[1]
[https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/blob/master/c/C.g4](https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/blob/master/c/C.g4)
[2]
[https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/blob/master/clojure/Clo...](https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/blob/master/clojure/Clojure.g4)
[3]
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROor6_NGIWU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROor6_NGIWU)

~~~
BoorishBears
I feel like this comment is throwing semantics in a blender and pouring it out
into the shape you want... but I guess that's the thing about arguing
semantics, it usually devolves to that...

So I guess I'll just keep my recommendation to Kotlin and you can keep your
recommendation to Clojure

~~~
iLemming
> I feel like this comment is throwing semantics in a blender and pouring it
> out into the shape you want

I don't think it is, though. But it is clear that you are arguing with
absolute confidence about a thing you have never given a heartfelt attempt to
try first. You are debating like a medieval 13th-century mathematician that
Roman numerals are elegant and more comfortable to understand, and people been
using them for centuries and no need for this Indo-Arabian numeral non-sense
that Leonardo, son of Bonacci so passionately keeps talking about.

I don't want to sound patronizing (I guess I'm already are, although not
intentionally), but let me give you an advice - never trust your inner
skepticism, fight it, dig for the answer - why are you so skeptical about it.
Progress pushed forward by individuals who continuously challenge their
beliefs. And from what I can see - you are not a mere consumer of progress,
you too, do want to be at the front line where it is being made.

------
thinkpad20
> Error: ENOENT, no such file or directory '~/foorc'

I can’t count how many times I’ve seen error messages that look like this,
often with no context at all, in JavaScript apps, even widely used ones like
npm and webpack. Proper error handling is never easy, but the JS community
seems particularly given to avoiding it.

------
hinkley
Complexity is combinatorial. If you compose your code of overly complex
components the end result will have much more emergent behavior.

If everything at the bottom is straightforward, then people will spot more
overarching concerns, instead of bogging down in minor details.

I’d really love to see some cognitive science applied directly to UX and code
quality concepts. Surely some of the things we espouse but don’t enforce are
spot on, and others are cargo culting. Refining that list might make it harder
to ignore.

------
orenkt
can author of that medium post show real world example of an app, build with
those principles and rules from start to end?

it would be also very educational to see decision and design process of an app
build with those rules.

------
lostgame
I couldn’t agree more.

Also; keep it _clean_. Don’t over-comment, but comment.

~~~
tchaffee
Can you define "over-comment"? Without a clear definition, it's just
subjective opinion.

~~~
throwaway35784

      //increment i in for loop
      For (i=0;i++....

      Var x; //define variable x

      X=4; //give value of 4 to x

Everyone knows what that code does. The comments aren't necessary.

~~~
tchaffee
That's a good concrete example of bad comments. I suppose you could throw that
in the "over-commenting" category.

~~~
throwaway35784
And, strangely, it's the only response to the gp's request to define of over-
commenting, yet it is downvoted to below definitions of _good_ commenting.

So. Weird. The other responses didn't properly implement the requirement
specification.

I am _so_ confused.

------
dplgk
But wait, I want all my code to work in linear space and time, look like
assembly code and scale to 4 billion servers.

~~~
dang
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

------
avmich
"Keep the story going. Sign up for an extra free read. You've completed your
member preview for this month, but when you sign up for a free Medium account,
you get one more story."

Sorry, can't read behind paywall.

~~~
kevingoslar
Agreed, sorry for the paywall. Is there a better place to post such stories
than Medium?


Next major release of PHP to be named PHP 7 - sp8
http://news.php.net/php.internals/76254

======
metabrew
Why skip a version? Wasn't clear from that thread.

~~~
msantos
PHP 6 existed (check commits in the public repo) but was abandoned and never
released to public.

The voting page lists more info
[https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php6#vote](https://wiki.php.net/rfc/php6#vote)

~~~
RossM
Annoyingly, a few authors decided to jump the gun and publish books around PHP
6. I think this was the main deciding point. On the one hand, it might be
confusing for a newcomer who thinks that they're getting a book on the latest
and greatest; on the other, perhaps they should check publication dates.

Either way, it wasn't a particularly important decision - any number
signifying a major version bump, greater than 5, would have been fine.

~~~
ramy_d
Yeah,
[http://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=php+6](http://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=php+6)
I wonder if publishing against "vaporware" (not exactly, but anyway) is an
expected risk in the industry. Would be interesting to hear what the people
who are affected in that sense think of this.


Why Nightingales Are Snubbing Berkeley Square for the Tiergarten - Tomte
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/13/nightingales-snubbing-london-for-berlin-tiegarten-germany
======
__m
Not an ornithologist, but I suppose they want to lose easy access to the
world’s biggest single market

~~~
ar0
And, luckily for them, they don‘t need an airport to be able to land in the
city.

~~~
gumby
Luckily for the rest of us the new airport should be ready by 2012.


The History and Adaptability of the Islamic State Car Bomb - jacobr
https://zaytunarjuwani.wordpress.com/2017/02/14/the-history-and-adaptability-of-the-islamic-state-car-bomb/
======
SlipperySlope
Disturbing.


Welcome to DNS, or Saving the DNS Camel [pdf] - okket
https://indico.dns-oarc.net/event/29/contributions/658/attachments/641/1039/Welcome_to_DNS-final.pdf
======
peterwwillis
I would argue we do need a real DNS replacement. The stupid 512 byte limit has
been a scapegoat to prevent new important features from being implemented
forever, and the stateless nature has been abused by bad actors. We want and
need something like QUIC, and a more sane way to adopt changes to features.

The obsession with backwards compatibility is crazy. Imagine if we took real
physical infrastructure in the world and insisted we continue to build it only
in a way compatible with technology from the 1800's. We live in a modern
world, where firmware upgrade doesn't require a UV light source, and where we
can probably get two or three companies to push for the rapid adoption of new
industry standard formats - just looked what happened to enable tech like
Ethernet to become a defacto standard.

~~~
bluejekyll
You might be interested in DNS-over-QUIC:
[https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huitema-quic-
dnsoquic...](https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huitema-quic-dnsoquic/)

Also, the 512 byte limits hasn’t been an issue for many years, as EDNS allows
for much larger packet sizes, generally up to 4K. (Edit: although, some DNS
recursive resolvers have started limiting UDP connections to 512, and only
allowing larger packets in TCP, to reduce the effect of reflection attacks)

As to backward compatibility, don’t underestimate the number of old devices on
the network that need DNS to operate and haven’t been, or won’t be updated for
years.

~~~
peterwwillis
The 512 byte limit is still a significant issue because literally nobody
enforces the use of EDNS. Anyone can just put an arbitrary limit on udp
packets on port 53, either at the service provider or at any intermediate
network. Nobody is willing to say "you MUST use EDNS to use our service"
(because they don't like rejecting cash-paying customers due to technical
restrictions), so everyone just gives up and says, fine, I guess we just won't
depend on EDNS, so it becomes an optional feature that you can't depend on.

I would be very happy if a variant of QUIC became its own OSI layer 4 protocol
so we could start re-engineering all higher level protocols to use QUIC rather
than UDP or TCP. If we had done that decades ago, not only would a majority of
our network security issues have been nonexistent, we would have had extra
performance and bandwidth to advance the state of the art. (If you ask "why
not just implement it as UDP now and be backwards compatible", it's because
operating systems generally don't provide APIs for network protocols higher
than layer 4, and we need the protocol to be natively supported by all TCP/IP
stacks to grease wider network protocol adoption and reap the benefits for all
network applications)

~~~
zamadatix
> it's because operating systems generally don't provide APIs for network
> protocols higher than layer 4, and we need the protocol to be natively
> supported by all TCP/IP stacks to grease wider network protocol adoption and
> reap the benefits for all network applications)

I think the exact opposite is true in reality, people want to nimbly implement
protocols so badly they'd rather shove everything on top of UDP/TCP or even
HTTP than deal with waiting around for whole operating systems to age out.
From a pure technical design standpoint I agree a lot of things should be done
at lower layers but I don't think it's possible for this to happen as quickly
as a lot of people are wanting.

Not to mention the second travesty of the layered protocol model in the real
world: hardware and configurations have started to grow around it. A lot of
networks can't handle QUIC simply because UDP 443 won't go through their
firewall yet people are expecting everyone to just jump up and start NATing
completely different L4 protocols? Remember IPv6 has been around since the
late 90s yet people are still sticking to the same NAT solution.

Became more rambly than I wanted but I'm just a network guy frustrated that we
can't keep building up the protocol stack nor can we tear it down.

------
okket
See also his presentation at OARC:

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AquYPF1hvH0&t=0h45m0s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AquYPF1hvH0&t=0h45m0s)

And the discussion about "Hello DNS" from 6 months ago:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714679](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16714679)
(42 comments, sic!)

------
ahubert
author here - actual project is on [https://powerdns.org/hello-
dns/](https://powerdns.org/hello-dns/)

~~~
pmoriarty
Thank you for writing this.

It looks like the content on that site is really just plain, static text. It
would be nice if it could be read without requiring the user's browser to
allow javascript.

~~~
rnotaro
I thought it was a plain text document. My JSON reader browser extension was
preventing MarkDeep to render for some unknown reasons.

------
totalperspectiv
I clicked because of the camel. Super cool project! DNS has always been one of
those black box layers to me. This looks like a great resource for learning
just a little, or going all the way down the rabbit hole.

------
okket
Another one for the camel, fresh from the IETF:

RFC 8484: DNS Queries over HTTPS (DoH)
[https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8484](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8484)

------
ca98am79
DNS needs to be decentralized, like on a blockchain. The internet won't really
be free until this happens. Currently ICANN, the top-level domain registries,
and even the registrars have too much control and can take down and censor
domains.

~~~
qznc
Which would be [https://namecoin.org/](https://namecoin.org/)

I agree that DNS might be a better use case for blockchains than money.


Google partners with Kia Motors to integrate Google Maps - ForFreedom
http://www.appy-geek.com/Web/ArticleWeb.aspx?regionid=3&articleid=5876620

======
nvr219
Link to original article: [http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/01/02/google-
partners-with...](http://thenextweb.com/google/2013/01/02/google-partners-
with-kia-motors-to-integrate-google-maps-and-places-into-new-car-models/)

~~~
ForFreedom
Changing it..

grrr.. can't change it..