Spanish: is it recording then or

Catalan: now it's recording

Spanish: okay um i have a record button as well but um it's okay

Catalan: it's fine

Spanish: okay so i think that you can start then <overlap>

Catalan: i should state my participation number no

Spanish: yeah

Catalan: i'm c forty nine p one

Spanish: and i'm c forty nine p two now you should read the passage that you have in the document

Catalan: all right please call stella ask her to bring these things with her from the store six spoons of fresh snow peas five thick slabs of blue cheese and maybe a snack for her brother bob we also need a small plastic snake and a big toy frog for the kids she can scoop these things into three red bags and we will go meet her wednesday at the train station

Spanish: okay um i will read as well please call stella ask her to bring these things with her from the store six spoons of fresh snow peas five thick slabs of blue cheese and maybe a snack for her bro for her brother bob we also need as much pla a small plastic snake and a big toy frog for the kids she can scoop these things into three red bags and we will go meet her wednesday at the train station okay so that was a weird passage and we can start talking about things um so how are you doing

Catalan: i'm fine um i've had a busy week but now it's coming to an end and i've had some problems with my flatmates because they seem to be a bit dirty <laugh>

Spanish: okay and you can say this out loud now <laugh> without because maybe they know already <laugh>

Catalan: yeah yeah they probably have already noticed that i'm not very happy with the state of our house

Spanish: okay

Catalan: it's a problem

Spanish: so so wh which is the part that is um more dirty would you say is is it the bathroom or in general the kitchen and stuff

Catalan: um

Spanish: or which is the part that that is more annoying to you

Catalan: i think there's not a specific part that is annoying it's just the accumulation of filth like when after many days

Spanish: okay in general

Catalan: yeah after many days you see a lot of dust in the stairs after many days you see a lot of breadcrumbs in the kitchen counter

Spanish: oh no oh oh no

Catalan: or when you see a lot of pubic hairs on the bathroom <laugh> that accumulation <laugh> that accumulation of filth

Spanish: <laugh> in the in the sink no in the

Catalan: yes

Spanish: how you call it this thing where the water comes out um like in the bath

Catalan: the drain

Spanish: in the bathtub the drain yeah yeah yeah in the drain

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: oh no pubic hair in the drain

Catalan: also because because

Spanish: it's hor it's horrible

Catalan: yeah i'm the only brunette but my two of my flatmates are slightly blonde so i know that all of those hairs aren't mine <laugh> how's the cleaning in your house do you live with flatmates or do live by yourself

Spanish: um yeah yeah that's an interesting question because i think that right now i have flatmates but they are extremely clean <laugh> fifty year old sixty year old flatmates which actually it's it's interesting because they they used to complain a lot about me so they're my parents and they used to complain a lot about me and i'm complaining now about them because um they have a cleaning lady that comes every day which i think is extreme and they get used to do some like the house is clean all the time but they can't leave everything there so someone cleans it out for them and i don't know it's a little bit disgusting and it's me complaining about them like can you please do it by yourself and not be so it's interesting i think that that this keeps happening you know that the kids are becoming parents at some point and this is

Catalan: what do mean by that

Spanish: well that i think that that life you you start like being yourself in the parents uh when you are born and you end up being yourself in the parent when you die

Catalan: ah yeah yeah yeah yeah

Spanish: and and i think that now i i can see this little switch that i'm telling them what they're doing wrong

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and these things keep um increasing i think uh every day

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: and month by month

Catalan: yeah i'm doing i'm studying a master's and we have a teaching assistant that um is uh an italian guy um that just had a newborn child and the other day we went to the pub and he was telling us i don't know a lot of things that i didn't know about babies like for example um you need to press them so they will shit <laugh>

Spanish: oh really oh no <laugh>

Catalan: they cannot shit by themselves

Spanish: oh no really okay

Catalan: yeah it's a one one month um baby newborn he has but he was so amazed also at the whole process

Spanish: so so is that true is like a it's like a doll or something that you have to press

Catalan: yeah it's a doll completely completely yeah i think it's it's similar he was very sweet he was telling us like the whole process of um his partner giving birth and i didn't know he's really excited about it it's really sweet to see but there was i always wondered because he stays in the pub until very late with us <laugh>

Spanish: <laugh> and then who is pressing the kid to poop you know i guess

Catalan: yeah no but i think they organize themselves

Spanish: who is the the the pressing the pooping pressing

Catalan: the yeah because i think they are well organized though because i think she works during the day and she's with and his with the baby during the day

Spanish: okay

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: yeah that that's something very interesting for me how like now i have like couple of friends that have babies and it's interesting how they convert to slightly different strategies and yeah i mean at the end it seems that everything worked out but everyone have their own like strategies of yeah for instance i remember that (()) used to wake up at three a m and he's with the baby until seven or eight a m while the other person is sleeping uh my brother and my uh sister in law they are crazy and there was no control at all but it worked out for them um but i don't know it's like this thing that there is no rules about how to do and everyone converts to their own thing i think yeah

Catalan: yes yes yes but th those like the thing that um he thinks that is the hardest is um that he's not getting much sleep that he's really sleep deprived but he says that you kind of get used to it like he's like now i think if i have a night that i don't sleep well my whole day is ruined but if then you have a child then you're gonna have a lot of nights that you don't sleep well you have to learn to live with it

Spanish: yeah yeah we used to be like that actually when i was in the us i used to sleep like super (()) every day and suddenly i (()) unable to sleep for eight hours and i was like oh fuck that's that's completely amazing you know like it could be yeah it was like that the your normal life is it becomes horrible and then suddenly um when you have a good night of sleep then your day is amazing so it's a little bit

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: interesting

Catalan: yeah um i have my father that is um i told him that i would be in this conversation but he keeps texting me now <laugh> asking things

Spanish: okay okay okay that's that's fine that's fine

Catalan: yeah <overlap>

Spanish: um we can look <overlap> i i was i i was thinking that that's interesting because we are partners or associates

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: but there are some of the things that i <laugh> i don't know about you and uh like like we propose some some conversation topics to have

Catalan: yes

Spanish: okay and the first one of them uh funny enough it's what's your favorite hobbies <laugh>

Catalan: what's my favorite

Spanish: hobbies

Catalan: hobbies <laugh> um well

Spanish: because you know like we were like like we were looking for topics of conversation and i think that at that time we were having our conversation about hobbies and stuff i thought what people have in in the uk and i said hobbies then <overlap>

Catalan: that's true that's true well i think this is um a trap question <laugh> because i don't believe in hobbies um i think i think hobbies are also um um like they changed throughout the origin the country origin i think some countries we don't tend to have a lot of hobbies at at least i feel like in my surrounding friends um in barcelona generally people go to the bar that's a hobby <laugh>

Spanish: okay okay okay

Catalan: but if i ever had one hobby i don't know i'm trying to think if i ever

Spanish: if just to choose one like like something that was close to be a hobby but it was it wasn't

Catalan: hmm like maybe climbing at some point

Spanish: climbing huh oh wow

Catalan: yes

Spanish: that's interesting

Catalan: yes

Spanish: that's interesting

Catalan: at some point yes i would go to there's a place in bercelona called la foixarda that is open if i want to go climb

Spanish: the open one or the

Catalan: the open one

Spanish: i i know la foixarda

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: the open one okay

Catalan: and then i would go to this um boulder center

Spanish: so the tunnels right

Catalan: what

Spanish: you used to go to the tunnel

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: okay

Catalan: and there was these boulders center in (()) um called (()) ten fingers

Spanish: (()) yeah yeah yeah yeah i was there during the opening actually

Catalan: really

Spanish: yeah yeah the first day where they opened

Catalan: oh wow

Spanish: yes

Catalan: and then sometimes i would go on the weekend to climb but that was the closest to a hobby i think i've ever been

Spanish: okay okay but that was very nice actually it's a it's a very nice hobby i used to climb a lot as well um i wasn't consider considering it a hobby it was more like oh wow this will sound super cool a way of life <laugh> no no no no

Catalan: no no i mean it is it is yeah can a hobby become a way of life

Spanish: yeah i think so so so a little bit yeah so so i had to stop to stop climbing i was climbing very strongly actually in edinburgh before meeting you again i think um but very very strongly like i used to go there four times a week and training and stuff

Catalan: oh wow

Spanish: yeah yeah yeah but suddenly i i i am like i think i i read somewhere that climbing is the the worst sport that you can do for your body or something like

Catalan: oh really

Spanish: it's super bad yeah yeah yeah for all joints and stuff it's extremely bad um you know this and skateboarding actually um

Catalan: (()) skateboarding

Spanish: no but but my best friend is used to be obsessed with skateboarding and i used to go with him at macba

Catalan: yes

Spanish: barcelona um it's this um like barcelona is one of the most famous um street skate cities in the world

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: um so all the pro skaters were coming to macba and i used to study in the university next to that place and max used to be there like doing skateboarding i used to watch him

Catalan: where did you study

Spanish: um well i there was a library there um

Catalan: oh okay

Spanish: so i used to go there um all the afternoons and when i finish i i used to go with max and max was doing

Catalan: nice

Spanish: but it it was interesting because you wanna see him like doing some tricks and i thought wow that's very cool and everyone was like no no that's normal and when they do something that for me was not impressive everyone was like whaat everone applauding and stuff you know

Catalan: but you don't understand the the codes of skating

Spanish: i don't understand the codes of skating but it's interesting because they do and um it's something very private or something and i remember there was a very nice guy that i got very not in love but it was like a very small child of like maybe ten years old or something

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: called (()) houston he was from the us uh uh i think i think he's jamaican or something with dreadlock like with twelve years old so so a small child like

Catalan: yeah yeah like a small adult in a way

Spanish: eh

Catalan: like a small adult in the body of a child

Spanish: a small adult yeah yeah yeah because he was like with this flow and using all the tricks and he was like twelve years old you know and everyone was like oh <laugh> and with the dreadlock you know he was super cute and his father was recording the videos as well and i thought that this was a very nice i dunno um and i used to go there and max knew that um i like him a lot like i like to watch him and every time that he was in barcelona um i used to go there and just observe him i i like this interaction with him and now he's an adult and he's extremely famous and stuff

Catalan: really he's famous

Spanish: yeah yeah yes he he was famous already when he was twelve years old but they used to come there well famous in in the skate world

Catalan: in skate world yeah

Spanish: in the skate world which i dunno can be globally famous um but yeah uh and climbing was a big part of my life as well we used to do road trips um around europe um climbing with with van and stuff and there i i i met a lot of people who were really crazy about climbing and it was a big part of their lives i think

Catalan: and how how did you start climbing

Spanish: hmm that's an interesting question when i was fourteen i think um it was the first time that i started climbing um because a friend of mine beto um he he was a little bit like uh just strange because now i see him as like i don't understand why this was the case but he was like i had a lot of admiration for him and i remember actually i did telecos like the my telecommunications engineering um because of him actually

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: um and yeah i yeah so part of why i am it's for him i think i dunno i had a lot of admirations for this guy and he used to climb and when when winter i remember that i got some climbing shoes and we start climbing a lot and yeah i dunno i think that he he used to be like this badass guy and i was like oh wow that's cool but then i i remember that that i started doing my own path through climbing

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: um he was more like um it's interesting because every climbing had climber had his own philosophy and i think that for beto was more al more like an alpinist in the sense of like his goal was to reach the top of a mountain

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and i was more a sportist climber um which means that um you prefer to do tricks and you don't care about arriving um like so so he for him his goal is to just do like a super big mountain let's say and if he is climbing in the middle he will climb for me climbing is by a goal by itself um

Catalan: yeah i know what you mean

Spanish: okay that's that's all about hobbies um um favorite or less favorite game or sport or fame or music

Catalan: game

Spanish: game okay

Catalan: game that as a child or as an adult

Spanish: as a as an adult or as a child as a child

Catalan: because i will come out i will come out as quite a negative person that doesn't like hobbies and doesn't like games

Spanish: <laugh> i know that i know that actually

Catalan: what do you do in your spare time um

Spanish: i do go to the bar

Catalan: <laugh>

Spanish: i think i'm an alcoholic i go to the bar

Catalan: i'm an alcoholic um no um i have a game that i like it's called um secret code um and it's a card game that you play um you make two teams with your friends and there's in each card there's a drawing and they're kind of very like drawings that have different elements in them

Spanish: ah oh wow that's that i played this recently was it with you or no like very recently actually

Catalan: no i don't think i never played that with you

Spanish: who who i played this with ah with garcia and other people actually with alex

Catalan: that's not that's the only one i like actually because my former flatmates back in barcelona they used to do a lot of um board games on sundays and they would

Spanish: uh huh

Catalan: invite people over and most of the time i would be hangover and (()) that there was people in the living room <laugh> but sometimes i would hang out with them and then one day this friend brought this game and i really liked it and it's the only game i ever bought i bought it for the house and that was it

Spanish: is this is this one that you have like drawings the recent drawings

Catalan: yes the recent drawings and then

Spanish: and then you have to say i dunno the red cup on the wall or something

Catalan: yeah so like you have a a little card with a secret code it's like you're a spy and then you have five cards by five cards on the table so you've got a card of how your secret code works which has six cards that are like blue and six are red

Spanish: ah okay no no no no i'm talking about something completely different okay i thought it was a but it isn't

Catalan: but then you say like three card three um on (()) um

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: you can only say one word and the quantity of card so you have to try to find the relations between the drawings and discuss with your team um but also um i don't know i think i'm not very good at playing games because i remember that sometimes when i play this game they would tell me i was cheating <laugh> in the game

Spanish: oh really yeah

Catalan: yeah because i was like doing gestures to my team so they would understand like no no no no <laugh> and you cannot do any gestures i also like that game of putting little papers on your head <overlap>

Spanish: oh yeah yeah yeah yeah

Catalan: i like that one and and the one of like also putting words i think i like games with words um and guessing and like mimicking and all of that but i don't like strategy games or games <overlap>

Spanish: like risk or something like that or monopoly

Catalan: i think i like fast paced games what games do you like

Spanish: hmm um yeah that's interesting i don't like board games in general actually um so when i say that uh it was a like like this type of magical thing that happens to us sometimes it's because the other day i was with (()) and and the blowpipe blow gu gun guy guy <laugh> blowgun guy um and we were playing a game but it was very interesting actually uh they give you some some drawing like very strange drawing like super psychedelic somehow like with many strange elements non correlated strange elements that and then you have to say something um say say what is your card about then everyone puts the card that is closer to what you said and then everyone has to guess who said um what what is your card basically so you come with yeah

Catalan: maybe it's with the same cards that you play these both versions

Spanish: it's possible yeah i don't know but it was interesting actually it was very psychological i think um but what what happens to me with board games is that i get bored uh <laugh> um

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: i get bored very very fast actually

Catalan: yeah me too

Spanish: um it just just it takes me maybe one or two rounds to enjoy it i remember this (()) i didn't understand it much

Catalan: i i like that one i remember but to a certain

Spanish: yeah but

Catalan: point once you've played once or twice it's a bit like yeah okay

Spanish: okay (())

Catalan: we're trying to be ready

Spanish: when we know it

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: yeah yeah it's it's just one one round game but yeah it's interesting because there in my university in edinburgh everyone is like crazy (()) it's crazy yeah i haven't seen it much mm yeah in all my life

Catalan: is there any

Spanish: we're not playing

Catalan: any any games that you remember playing throughout your life not only not only like board games but as a child or sometimes

Spanish: oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i used to play a lot of video games actually and i there is this theory i don't know (()) patrick that is um one of for me is one of the most brilliant researchers um um from the next generation uh so i have my advisor my advisor is generation one let's say that next generation was taylor i think

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and i am a generation two so i think that taylor is one of the for me he's one of the best ones and actually he was working on (()) medication at some point as well um and i remember that he told me once that he heard the theory that people who played games when they were young and stuff it made them think in a different way and i actually actually after um sometime i i have seen a lot of examples of people who were very good at playing games and spend a lot of time playing games when they were young and now are crazy with at research and computer science and other stuff so

Catalan: like my oldest brother my oldest brother spend a lot of time playing

Spanish: your oldest brother your older brother is one example actually um i remember that you told me and i thought oh that's that was i good example oriol vinyals who is one of the leads of deepmind um which is a company in in london he used to be a champion on starc starcraft

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: um which is a which is a game it's it's like (()) players i don't know if you know it's like you have to build a city and then destroy other cities and stuff it's like risk or something but with um video games and interestingly he later on um he thought okay um if a machine can solve that problem of playing that game we will will be in a step forward for artificial intelligence and he spent the last ten years like working on an algorithm that can play that game and

Catalan: oh

Spanish: and beat professional players um but yeah there is something that that our parents tend to think that okay we are losing time but i think it it makes you like think in a more strategic way at least it it's i'm very proud i'm like proud i'm like i think when you're playing that game you're ready to solve small tasks let's say you you

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: take the the the video game you divide them in small task and then you try to

Catalan: do you still play video games

Spanish: no actually i bought one um so so i used to play a lot one video game called zelda

Catalan: yes

Spanish: which is uh

Catalan: i know zelda

Spanish: you know you know zelda okay so i was so i accept this melancholy uh for me like because i remember spending a lot of time and remembering creating a lot with the story when i was young and i don't remember two or three years ago i said okay um i will buy a console and i bought a console i am very bad at playing games by way so i i am not good at all and i got a console just to play the new version of zelda and i have it here but i i've never played it maybe i played four or six times i don't know um but i'm very bad at it um but i have it here and i hope also because i have manel now uh i hope that he will get a console and i can play with him or something

Catalan: yeah that's nice

Spanish: yeah manel is my nephew and yeah anyway um um hmm uncomfortable silence i don't know

Catalan: no not uncomfor uncomfortable it's comfortable

Spanish: it's a comfortable silence

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: um um so if you could go to holidays anywhere

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: you cannot say turkey where where would that be

Catalan: where would that be hmm i don't hmm <laugh> i don't know um right now um i think i really like the idea of of going on holidays to visit friends and that live in a place

Spanish: mm

Catalan: because um for me it changes a lot the experience of going so um i think i would like to go to mexico i've never been

Spanish: okay

Catalan: now i have

Spanish: you've never been to mexico really

Catalan: no

Spanish: oh wow that's surprising because you've been

Catalan: oh no no yeah i've been to mexico i've been to mexico actually up to the south of mexico

Spanish: because you uh exactly exactly <overlap>

Catalan: yeah and then i went to mexico city

Spanish: okay

Catalan: so i <overlap>

Spanish: i have friends there as well um yeah

Catalan: that can be a good holiday then but someone that i know very closely and really had idea about going to china and in the beginning um i was a skeptic <laugh> like china what but now as time goes by i think that it can be more and more interesting and i have a good friend that live many years in china so maybe that could be a place to visit with this person that really likes

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: china um those are the things i don't know but yeah i really like the idea of of connecting up a place with the people that is there i generally like

Spanish: mm

Catalan: south america a lot i've been there for a bit but there's something there that i really enjoy um

Spanish: hmm <overlap> would you like to visit some more places in south america because you've been to many parts of

Catalan: yeah i think i would like to visit argentina i've never been i would like to visit brazil

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: um yeah those are places that i haven't been to yet um central america i would also think i know i think there's something nice about the fact that since i speak spanish and you can connect very quickly with people um and

Spanish: okay

Catalan: relate in a way that some maybe somewhere else it's harder sometimes and with my english but at the same time i think there's also something nice when when you cannot communicate because it's a foreign language there's like um like a sense of opacity of not completely understanding but it's also nice when it's traveling

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: i think i don't like the idea of <overlap>

Spanish: do you enjoy the that that feeling in

Catalan: what

Spanish: do you enjoy that feeling of n like not being able to it is opacity feeling

Catalan: i completely understand i think yes i think there's this idea of also like going somewhere and completely understanding something i think it's a bit off as an idea

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: um

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: because like it's impossible to understand um like a whole history or a whole culture with a few days and one has to like understand that you will never actually like know um what is really behind a lot of things i think i i i got at this feeling when i was i lived one year in haiti and there was a lot of things

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: i couldn't understand there um of the culture and at that moment i really had like this whole mindset of wanting to understand everything

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: um and i think it hasn't been like after a few years that a lot of the experiences i had there for me were very strange or um well i wasn't completely comfortable with those experiences because i think i was trying to match to make sense of things that sometimes my rationality is not enough to make sense of or that i don't understand um the the complexity and i was actually having a conversation with a friend here from my masters that um had been in south africa for a week and he was saying no about things that you cannot really completely understand because some histories and some cultures are another form of life and that one thing to access completely that's um is in a way like a wrong way to position yourself towards it

Spanish: mm hmm mm hmm yeah yeah that's that's that's super interesting actually what you're saying like um there are two things here i think the first one is that um these rationalities are extremely cultural i think

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: like we we think in terms of our culture and i think that this is a little bit dangerous and this is the second thing because it's something that i don't like and when i see like like my s suddenly i have try to like this thing of like try to personality about things it makes me think a little bit of colonizing or something like

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: um you know like like you you see people doing things in a strange way and you start judging it and it's like well i mean yeah it's it's it's like you start judging from this position and suddenly you have like uh it it's happened to me a lot i'm not criticizing because i think it's something completely normal and you have to travel a lot and to be exposed to these situations quite often

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and like for me i remember in the us i was like judging all the time like oh these people are eating that or are doing are doing that and that was and now when i think about it like from a from a from the distance it was a little bit yeah um yeah

Catalan: patronizing i mean in certain cultures

Spanish: patronizing yeah

Catalan: is patronizing and is and in other cultures is colonial like for example me not understan like i lived in a very rural place in in haiti and there was a lot of um spiritism and black magic

Spanish: mm

Catalan: and a lot of ways of relating to the world from a sense that being a western person um white with a very rational background and rational history of my culture i would question a lot um

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: what they were telling me and like even question it from a humorous side but i don't know i i think like maybe maybe not questioning so much and and letting like be more part of it i mean i did in some ways but sometimes i think i was also questioning a lot or like a part of me i still doesn't believe that that man in the market was a zombie um because

Spanish: mm

Catalan: they they were telling me now in the market there's a zombie like blank i said shut up like you don't want to believe but it's like this um

Spanish: mhm mm

Catalan: and i don't know i mean there's other ways of of experimenting the world than like really putting aside for this whole rationality is accepting that it's not our way is not the best way maybe or the only way know uh

Spanish: exactly exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's that's the interesting part i think like for me it's been always observe like well not always but but learning how to observe without judging because um when you start for me when you see this um conversation about zombies et cetera and we start saying oh i don't like that it's like putting some boundaries in the exploration of the world i'd say

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: like for me it's interesting to not have any boundaries and see what you are receiving this could be also dangerous because uh there are ethical things that i am completely i completely disagree for instance there is a chance that i have to go to qa qatar this um this this year for a conference

Catalan: i didn't know that

Spanish: and uh yeah yeah but this is very recent actually um but this will be later on in the in the year not in in september october but maybe

Catalan: mh hmm

Spanish: on november or something i don't know um but but there i will have this problem because i'm like i have this kind of liberalism about thinking about people et cetera

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: but then suddenly i will find myself in a society that i disagree with many many things

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: about ethical things about i don't know women's rights for instance

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: or racism or or many things that i think are very wrong um in that country and then it's like what how should i behave and this a very tricky question actually um

Catalan: yeah although like i feel like certain ways of ruling um a a country or certain thoughts um built on an oppressive understanding

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: um and i think for me that oppression is problematic either if it's rational or if it's unrational

Spanish: mm hmm

Catalan: um it's problematic but then there's like another layer to it which this difference between rationality and and that and what is not and i don't know enemies and

Spanish: unrational

Catalan: of course treaties and more

Spanish: mm

Catalan: yeah i wouldn't like to i don't like to call it unrational because that's like in a way already

Spanish: patronizing

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: yeah

Catalan: but i don't know exactly the words um

Spanish: mm hmm i tend to think there is one funny thing that yeah maybe maybe for for me i always thought that um religion have something interesting is that they will tell about community and the good people actually i have uh one friend of mine in edinburgh well now she will know who she is but um she's she's she's mormon

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and one thing that surprised me a lot is that she is one of the best person that i've ever known and i think that there is this part i i don't know i mean it's very hard to tell but

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: um i think that that that religions have a lot do with that actually it at least christianism um i know that maybe it's not perfect but um at least at the beginning of times uh it made me think that that being religious makes you can make you a good person and this could be useful at this beginning of whenever everything like there was no ethics or something

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: and i think that that their religion had uh had had a good point let's say um

Catalan: then but it wasn't so but then religion is also an institution and a generation of structures of our um i think i think like it's different when religion is something you experience within yourself and then when it becomes this structure this institution

Spanish: mm

Catalan: to rule

Spanish: there is it's it's when you believe it in yourself it's spirituality i think and

Catalan: yeah

Spanish: when it becomes structural it's religion

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: i think

Catalan: are you religious can i ask that question

Spanish: uh yeah <laugh> yeah you can ask that question i think um what if i say yes you imagine now yes i am i am muslim <laugh> no no no no no no no i i am not religious i say i'm saying this because i'm from spain so it could not make that much sense i think but no no no i i 'm not religious but i'm very interested in religion actually um wherenever i can i uh i have a good friend of mine who is muslim as well and we i talk a lot about about muslims and mus um how it's called the religion um

Catalan: islam

Spanish: islam i loved islam um and and about christianism and stuff i'm very interested on because i'm very spiritual i think but zero religious um yeah so what what about you ha have you been baptized or something i i'm bap baptized by the way

Catalan: yes i baptized and i did my first communion um

Spanish: oh wow oh wow

Catalan: yeah i went to i went to catechesis

Spanish: you're at a nice level in the game

Catalan: yeah yeah

Spanish: you've been in the game

Catalan: i went to catechesis for two years

Spanish: oh wow catechesis is like (())

Catalan: and i i sometimes go to church with my grandmother i like go with along her or um in christmas <overlap>

Spanish: oh that's that's sweet

Catalan: if my if my mother wants to go to church i might go to her i actually like i don't completely dislike um going to church um

Spanish: uh huh okay

Catalan: there is a there is a certain like not as in as in the already (()) but there's something that is not on nice for me of being in a church i like the calmness that there is inside

Spanish: mm hmm mm hmm

Catalan: um and i like the voice of the priest like when it's like it depends like there's a priest that is like sermonizing and telling you but then there's like this priest that has a uh like a tone of voice that is a bit transcendental and there's something i i don't completely dislike about the church i actually like a lot e entering church i remember i had like a big fight about this um when i was sixteen with my friends um in high school they took us to salamanca

Spanish: uh huh

Catalan: and i really wanted to go see the churches and my friends obviously didn't want because (()) in yourself and and the kids are really like against religion sometimes

Spanish: uh huh uh huh

Catalan: i would struggle because i i wouldn't consider myself religious but there was something yeah i don't know if it's because i had an upbringing more near church that i have a different relation to that space um yeah i remember having a big fight with with this friend because i wanted to go and she was saying like priests rape children <laugh>

Spanish: oh no

Catalan: and i was like but it was like uh but you cannot really use religion to that um but i didn't know how to articulate it very well at that time it was more of an intuition of why i did like church as a space i also like i'm really amazed architectonically with churches generally

Spanish: yeah yeah they are impressive yeah actually the the book that i have from rafael moneo

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: it's about a church um that was designed by le corbusier

Catalan: oh really le corbusier interesting

Spanish: yeah yeah yeah it's called (()) well i will i will i will send it um later on but yeah there is i am i am amazed at that there is one artist called tim hecker

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: um sound artist and uh he did a phd in i think in london and it would be extremely magical that it was in france exactly like that i don't think that it would be but it's like the typical thing that maybe would be done there um he a phd on noise actually

Catalan: mm hmm

Spanish: what noise um represents i think that the meeting is finishing so

Catalan: yeah i'm seeing that as well

Spanish: we have to break <overlap>

Catalan: should i um stop the recording

Spanish: yeah stop stop recording and then we can