


# I hope I gave you a fairly solid answer to this one: I simply don't agree
# with the embodied version of a Satan who is a separate creation or a force.



# And there are quite physical descriptions of Heaven and Hell in the
# Holy Qur'an, the Bible, etc.  There have been times in the spiritual
# and intellectual evolution of the modern human when these physical
# descriptions of Heaven, Hell, and Satan were taken quite literally
# and that *worked* for the time.  As I mentioned in the Tradition
# cited above, for example, it was sufficient in the absence of a theory
# about germs and disease spread by worms to simply describe the "evil"
# which was passed to a consumer of spoiled food as "satanic."

     Which begs the question: if Satan in this case is
     metaphorical, how can you be certain Allah is not
     the same way?

# The bottom line here, however, is that describing a spiritual plane
# in human language is something like describing "color" to a person
# who has been blind from birth.  You may want to read the book
# FLATLAND (if you haven't already) or THE DRAGON'S EGG.  The first
# is intended as a light hearted description of a mathematical con-
# cept...

[some deleted for space saving]

# When language fails because it cannot be used to adequately describe
# another dimension which cannot be experienced by the speakers, then
# such conventions as metaphor, allegory, and the like come to be
# necessary.  The "unseen" is described in terms which have reference`
# and meaning for the reader/listener.  But, like all models, a compro-
# mise must be made when speaking metaphorically: clarity and directness
# of meaning, equivalence of perception, and the like are all
# crippled.  But what else can you do?

     This is why I asked the above.  How would you then
     know God exists as a spirit or being rather than
     just being metaphorical?  I mean, it's okay to say
     "well, Satan is just metaphorical," but then you
     have to justify this belief AND justify that God is
     not some metaphor for something else.

     I say this because there are many, many instances of
     Satan described as a being (such as the tormentor in 
     the Old Testament book of Job, or the temptor in the
     New Testament Gospels).  In the same way, God too is
     described as a being (or spirit.)  How am I to know
     one is metaphorical and not the other.

     Further, belief in God isn't a bar to evil.  Let's
     consider the case of Satanists: even if Satan were
     metaphorical, the Satanist would have to believe
     in God to justify this belief.  Again, we have a 
     case where someone does believe in God, but by
     religious standards, they are "evil."  If Bobby
     does see this, let him address this question also.

[deleted some more on "metaphor"]


Stephen

    _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   _/       _/    * Atheist
   _/        _/    _/   _/ _/ _/ _/     * Libertarian
  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   _/   _/  _/      * Pro-individuality
       _/  _/     _/  _/       _/       * Pro-responsibility
_/_/_/_/  _/      _/ _/       _/ Jr.    * and all that jazz...

