

That has not been demonstrated.  Had he come to trial, there was a very real
possibility that Koresh would have gotten an acquittal on grounds of self-
defense.  All survivors of the debacle have sworn that the BATF shot first.


They "rang the doorbell" using a concussion grenade!  And if the bloody
warrants were "legal" then why were they _sealed_ after the fight started?
And if Koresh had declared himself a "private state" and was just daring the
gov't to go in, then why did he surrender last year to a local sheriff who
served a warrant _for_his_arrest_ (as opposed to the BATF search warrant,
which did not include arrest unless violations were found) by just calling
him up to tell him and then going out to collect him with his squad car?
That doesn't sound like a dictator to me, it sounds like someone who knows
he has a court battle.  Things might have gone very differently if the BATF
_had_ "rung the doorbell".


This is stupid.  That is no paranoid assertion, it is testamony from surviving
witnesses, and the BATF _has_ no tanks, nor am I aware of either the BATF _or_
the FBI using any until yesterday.  When they use maximum force they do just
what they did that first day that got four officers killed.


"Underarmed"?  You flabberghast me, they were loaded for bear and every
picture shows them wearing bullet-proof vests!  They were using concussion
grenades and full-auto weapons, what was missing low-yield tac-nukes?  This
is a transparent attempt to retcon a justification for the ridiculous amount
of force used, both initially and yesterday.  You should be ashamed.


They _had_ a sure-fire method: keep them bottled up and talk them to death or
surrender without giving him justification for some looney-tune religious
stunt.

Phil, I've been reading your postings for months and I'm convinced that you
will back anything, no matter how damaging it may be to yours or anyone
else's rights if you think it will hurt people you don't like.  It's people
with that attitude that set up the preconditions for the Holocaust, a process
that is in place _now_ in this country, even if the tattered, pitiful remains
of the Constitution is slowing its progress.  This isn't a Libertarian issue,
others may argue that line, but from a strictly Constitutional view of a
democratic gov't, what the FBI and BATF did was wrong, wrong, wrong, even if
their _reasons_ for trying to arrest Koresh were 100% right.  _Anything_ that
leads to the deaths of 17 children, if nothing else touches your stoney
heart, is _wrong_ no matter who pushed the button.  For God's sake, man, get
your morality back.

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?