I guess I am also free to pay the administrative costs of the IPP myself as well and have no security other than I work for every dollar (not a DB situation at all).  The costs to run it are over 5K per year.  There are other complicating factors.  So not really the same thing - do fed employees pay 5K per year in admin charges to have a pension?  You seem to have overlooked all the other examples I gave.  I don't have an issue with pensions, I think they are wonderful and more people like doctors should have them.  We are public servants according to most canadians we just dont get the benefits - that was my point.  To give us these fair benefits would bankrupt the system.