Saynt----"In a region that has already way overshot its ability to sustain humans into the future,
ME --- Utter nonsense. Under 2% of Oregon is urbanized

Saynt----"Whether we grow up or out, we cannot do so indefinitely into the future.
ME -- Why not? In case you haven't heard, the Earth's fertility rate has been declining for almost 1/2 century. OF course the sleazy green money grubbers don't want you to know this because the need to scare you into sending them money to pretend to solve the (non-)problem.

Furthermore, growth is highly subsidized by taxpayers, and yet it never pays for itself. See: http://www.fodorandassociates.com/rpts_and_pubs.htm
ME Somehow we grew for 150 years without bankruptcy. So this is more bull crap from the anti-growth zealots. Next you'll try to convence us that we should get out of $0.25/passenger-mile cars for $1.00 per mile buses or $1.60 per passenger-mile toy trains. http://www.debunkingportland.com/top10bus.html