---
layout: transcript
interviewee: icek none baum
rg_number: rg-50.030.0017
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0017_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504530
gender: m
birth_date: 1925-01-01
birth_year: 1925.0
place_of_birth: warsaw
country: poland
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: none
needs_research: none
data_entry: cl
accession: none
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
---
layout: transcript
interviewee: icek none baum
rg_number: rg-50.030.0017
pdf_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/oh_findingaids/rg-50.030.0017_trs_en.pdf
ushmm_url: https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504530
gender: m
birth_date: 1925-01-01
birth_year: 1925.0
place_of_birth: warsaw
country: poland
experience_group: survivor
ghetto(s)_encyclopedia: none
ghetto: none
camp(s)_encyclopedia: none
camp: none
non_ss_camp: none
region: none
needs_research: none
data_entry: cl
accession: none
revisit: none
tags: transcripts
---
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<body><dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1">ICEK BAUM July 5, 1994</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3">Q: I need to begin by having you state your name as it was then, the date of birth and where you were born.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="5">A: My name is Icek Baum.</sentence><sentence id="6">I'm born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> the first of January, 1925.</sentence><sentence id="7">And this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">neighborhood</span> where I was born in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, it called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Powisle</span>, this was just on the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span> but <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> the big <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span> is <span class="ENV_FEATURES">Vistula</span>, maybe you know, and that <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">neighborhood</span> was called like that.</sentence><sentence id="8">And my father was a tailor for the army, and so far my father was not alive.</sentence><sentence id="9">He was not bad but he died.</sentence><sentence id="10">I was very young.</sentence><sentence id="11">I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="12">It could be 1934, "33, "34, something like that.</sentence><sentence id="13">And my mother she was with seven kids.</sentence><sentence id="14">It was very, very hard.</sentence><sentence id="15">So that's the beginning of a very, very hard life for all of us.</sentence><sentence id="16">I was very young at this time, maybe ten-years-old, maybe younger.</sentence><sentence id="17">Maybe a little bit younger.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="31">Q: Were you the middle child, older brothers and sisters?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="33">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="34">I have older brothers.</sentence><sentence id="35">I was the second youngster, so I have three sisters, it was three sisters and four brothers.</sentence><sentence id="36">So I was the more youngster, the second youngster.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="41">Q: Now, your life was difficult because your mother had so many of you to take care of, but perhaps you have good memories before the war?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="43">A: Good memories, yes, good memories, little bit, yes.</sentence><sentence id="44">And time when my mother couldn't support everything and I was -- it was time to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and first time I was in <span class="BUILDING">Polish school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="45">In this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">neighborhood</span> there was no <span class="BUILDING">Jewish school</span> and Polish and I was there but I was maybe lucky, maybe my mother was lucky.</sentence><sentence id="46">She sent me to Dr. Korcezak".</sentence><sentence id="47">I was in <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> by <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korczak</span>.</sentence><sentence id="48">Maybe you know about <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korezak</span>, something like that.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="55">Q: Now, let me just hear a little bit more about your lifestyle first, and then I do want to talk more about Dr. Korczak.</sentence><sentence id="56">You went to a <span class="BUILDING">public school</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="59">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="61">Q: And many of your friends and neighbors were Christian?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="63">A: Most of them was Christian, yes.</sentence><sentence id="64">Perhaps some Jewish too, but just in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">neighborhood</span> where we were living there was not many Jews, was most Christians.</sentence><sentence id="65">And we was living -- like I can remember -- it was good because even I don't know what different between Christian or not Christian so.</sentence><sentence id="66">I remember just once when it was holidays, Passover, so we Janusz Korezak (1879-1942), physician, writer, and educator.</sentence><sentence id="67">In 1912 he was appointed director the <span class="BUILDING">Jewish orphanage</span> at <span class="DLF">Krochmalna Street</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="68">had change and we give them matzos, and they bake beautiful nice cake.</sentence><sentence id="69">And this was the difference between a Jew and non-Jew and that's it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="79">Q: So you had a good relations?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="81">A: We had a very good relationship, yes.</sentence><sentence id="82">And I think my father, my mother, she have too good relationship with these peoples.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="85">Q: Did you do anything that was very uniquely Jewish, other than the holidays?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="87">A: Yes, because we went before to go to the <span class="BUILDING">public school</span> my parents would send me, send - - us, brothers too, in the <span class="BUILDING">Jewish cheder(r</span>).</sentence><sentence id="88">Maybe you know.</sentence><sentence id="89">This is most <span class="BUILDING">religion school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="90">So that's the one that was really different between the Christians.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="95">Q: So your parents were fairly religious?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="97">A: Not very religious, but like maybe more than in this time.</sentence><sentence id="98">But my father keep always the Sabbath and my mother she prepare always for the Friday, like a <span class="BUILDING">Jewish home</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="101">Q: Did you experience or were you aware of any antisemitism before Hitler came to power or before the war?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="103">A: Yes, lot.</sentence><sentence id="104">Yes.</sentence><sentence id="105">This would be after my father die, so you know when we becoming older already say we understood more and even on the <span class="DLF">street</span> "Jew, Jew."</sentence><sentence id="106">It was always the young people, they beating us and they make all kinds of stories, all kinds of things, because we was Jews.</sentence><sentence id="107">I didn't see any difference, but maybe they saw the difference between Jew and non-Jew.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="113">Q: By these were the same people that you were friendly with?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="115">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="116">But when they are coming older maybe they was more antisemitic -- that's one of the reasons.</sentence><sentence id="117">Maybe the parents teach them like that.</sentence><sentence id="118">Maybe when in the <span class="BUILDING">churches</span>, when they go to the <span class="BUILDING">churches</span> the priest say, "Don't buy by Jew.</sentence><sentence id="119">Don't.... Kill the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="120">Because they killed our Jesus Christus."</sentence><sentence id="121">That's it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="129">Q: So this was at a time when Hitler had come to power in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> but before the war?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="131">A: That's when all before the war -- far before the war.</sentence><sentence id="132">This one, like I say, it was between 1930, "35, deg34, deg33, deg34, 35.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="135">Q: And these were the same people that you said a few minutes ago you went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> with?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="138"><span class="BUILDING">Orthodox primary school</span> (Yiddish).</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="139">A: Yeah, we went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="140">But even in the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> when we went the first time and I was in the <span class="BUILDING">public school</span>, so it was always that the -- but in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> the people were very religious and when it's coming the time to religion -- we don't have to -- but I went out, out from the <span class="BUILDING">classroom</span>, and so after "Jew, Jew, Jew," and if they couldn't, they beat us because look, we was just couple youngsters.</sentence><sentence id="141">Not so many like them.</sentence><sentence id="142">We are scared from them and they take advantage of us, that's it.</sentence><sentence id="143">It was very, very hard this time.</sentence><sentence id="144">So even like youngster, and believe me I don't know, I couldn't understand why, why?</sentence><sentence id="145">Because I'm Jew?</sentence><sentence id="146">And I don't see no difference because I was the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="147">We don't have no horn.</sentence><sentence id="148">We don't have nothing.</sentence><sentence id="149">We took the same language.</sentence><sentence id="150">We eat the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="151">And they was so -- they kill.</sentence><sentence id="152">If they can't kill, they beat us.</sentence><sentence id="153">They make all kind of trouble.</sentence><sentence id="154">Sometimes, we saw, they break the <span class="DLF">windows</span>.</sentence><sentence id="155">They break all these things.</sentence><sentence id="156">Why?</sentence><sentence id="157">Because they were -- they're Jewish family, and believe me at this time we were very, very poor.</sentence><sentence id="158">I remember mine <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="159">When my father died we were very, very poor because we had my mother.</sentence><sentence id="160">She was with seven kids and support seven kids wasn't easy.</sentence><sentence id="161">She have a very, very, very hard life.</sentence><sentence id="162">Very hard life.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="187">Q: What did you know about what was happening in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> before you were invaded?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="189">A: Lots of <span class="NPIP">things</span>.</sentence><sentence id="190">I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="191">The truth, just what we read sometimes in the paper, you know.</sentence><sentence id="192">The Nationalsozialistische Partei", they win, you know.</sentence><sentence id="193">At this time it was Hindenburg" -- Hindenburg lose the power and the German took the power.</sentence><sentence id="194">So when the -- 1939 -- just when it was Rosh Hashanah is decreed the war was starting.</sentence><sentence id="195">So the Germans start to come into <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="196">I remember when the Pole -- I never want to believe that the <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> going to lose the war.</sentence><sentence id="197">But at this time I was very young so maybe I don't understood very well, but I remember once my mother told me -- she told us, "You know what, you'll see, when the Germans come in here, I don't think they are going to handle with us very badly because they not the antisemites like the Polacks.</sentence><sentence id="198">Because," she say, "T remember in the war in 1914-18 they were very friendly, because we Jews are speaking J ewish", and the Jewish is a lot like German so we could understood altogether."</sentence><sentence id="199">And it wasn't -- was like she was saying.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="211">Q: So, you all knew what was happening in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> but you thought that it wouldn't happen to you in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="213">A: What happen German, I don't know exactly.</sentence><sentence id="214">Because maybe I know what we read in the &gt; National Socialist Party (German); Nazi political party in <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>. *</sentence><sentence id="215">Paul von Beneckendorff und von Hindenburg (1847-1934); German army officer and statesman, president of <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> 1925-1934.</sentence><sentence id="216">deg Yiddish papers, but, you know, we couldn't have no radios, no TV's and the media was not strong like today.</sentence><sentence id="217">So we don't know exactly everything.</sentence><sentence id="218">But one thing I remember is when Hitler is coming on power, they send out most the Jews from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="219">And the Jews, they come into <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and lots coming to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> and we was talking with them and they tell us what kind of pogrom was there, you know, with the Kristallnacht and the beating and the -- don't let live the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="220">The Jews have no right, the Jews was second, even not the second citizen.</sentence><sentence id="221">They couldn't work.</sentence><sentence id="222">They couldn't have absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="223">So we know already there is trouble.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="237">Q: Do you remember the first day of the war or when <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> was occupied, do you remember what was happening?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="239">A: When the -- first of all, the Polish people, the Polack, they keep the fight one month, 30 days.</sentence><sentence id="240">And this was a very, very badly because we was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> and I remember it was when shrapnel -- you know what the shrapnel -- it was maybe two, three <span class="DLF">windows</span> away from our <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span>.</sentence><sentence id="241">So in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> if you run down, all my mother she prepare for everybody, pullover, you know, something to put on clothes.</sentence><sentence id="242">So we run to the <span class="BUILDING">shelters</span>.</sentence><sentence id="243">So after maybe one or two hours later we go out.</sentence><sentence id="244">We went back to the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> and we eat what we have.</sentence><sentence id="245">We don't have much but we eat everything.</sentence><sentence id="246">And just the second day, I think, they started again and it was fire bombs that fell in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> where we was living and everything was burned.</sentence><sentence id="247">And we don't have time to take nothing, nothing, we run out just what we have on our back.</sentence><sentence id="248">And everybody -- all these <span class="BUILDING">houses</span>, all of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> was burning.</sentence><sentence id="249">So we have <span class="NPIP">nowhere</span> to go.</sentence><sentence id="250">That's what I remember and it was on the same <span class="DLF">street</span> it was a <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span> -- <span class="INT_SPACE">public bath</span>.</sentence><sentence id="251">So we went there.</sentence><sentence id="252">We have a little.</sentence><sentence id="253">We took a little broom and my mother she was living, sleeping in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bath tub</span>.</sentence><sentence id="254">That's what I remember.</sentence><sentence id="255">And when the Germans come in, the first thing what they do they start to give food for the peoples, soup and bread.</sentence><sentence id="256">So it was not bad.</sentence><sentence id="257">But after they doesn't -- they start with the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="258">No Jew have right to have bread.</sentence><sentence id="259">No Jew have nothing.</sentence><sentence id="260">And sometimes my mother -- she was blond, she wasn't very dark and so it was not so easy to recognize her like a Jew, so she went and have bread.</sentence><sentence id="261">But sometimes, next day or two days later when she go again, some Polack recognize her and they say, "Ah there's a Jew, there is a Jew."</sentence><sentence id="262">And they throw her out so we didn't have nothing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="287">Q: So this was in the <span class="BUILDING">bath house</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="289">A: That was in the <span class="BUILDING">bath house</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="291">Q: And there was Polish people and Jewish people?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="293">A: All together, yeah.</sentence><sentence id="294">But as soon as the German come in, you know, they saw what is all the difference.</sentence><sentence id="295">We were treated a little bit better because from the Jews, but we were always scared to go out because it was not very, very pleasant.</sentence><sentence id="296">Not easy.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="301">Q: How long were you in this <span class="BUILDING">facility</span>?</sentence><sentence id="302">Do you remember?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="303">A: I can't tell you exactly how long because--</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="304">Q: Days, weeks?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="306">A: It was couple, maybe one or two weeks until we find a <span class="BUILDING">shelter</span> very, very far out from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and there we was maybe the whole time until -- this was 1939, and 1939, "40 the winter was very, very hard winter so we stay there until it makes 1940.</sentence><sentence id="307">I think 1940.</sentence><sentence id="308">So, I was, I was by <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Korezak</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="312">Q: Let me just ask you a question and then I want to ask you about the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>.</sentence><sentence id="313">When you were in this <span class="BUILDING">bath house</span>, wasn't there any feeling of -- I don't know -- camaraderie, between the Polish people and the Jewish people because, in fact, you were all being invaded by the Germans?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="316">A Not special, not special.</sentence><sentence id="317">No.</sentence><sentence id="318">Because first of all, I don't know, we was scared.</sentence><sentence id="319">If the Polish people was scared from the Germans, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="320">But it was, there was a distance between the Jewish people and the Polish people because the German they start already -- the Jew.</sentence><sentence id="321">They take away everything from the Jews and they start to talk about the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and they start, you know, every Jew have to have, you know, the Jew shtern"(r).So we -- there was a certain distance between the Polish and the Jews.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="329">Q: Maybe the Polish thought they could protect themselves by separating?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="331">A: You know, it's very hard to tell you, because the Polish people -- I going to tell you just once.</sentence><sentence id="332">The antisemitic by the Polish people -- by the Polish woman there was already inject in the breast of from the woman and they give it to the children.</sentence><sentence id="333">But the children took the breast from their mothers and start to give them the milk.</sentence><sentence id="334">They give them the hateness for the Jews.</sentence><sentence id="335">And it was all over, all over, every time you have always, you know.</sentence><sentence id="336">There was terrible.</sentence><sentence id="337">Even sometimes you know this day I remember I stay up about two, three o'clock in the night to make a <span class="DLF">line</span> to have a piece of bread.</sentence><sentence id="338">And when one Polack or somebody see a man what is a Jew, they threw him out.</sentence><sentence id="339">They kicked him out.</sentence><sentence id="340">They beat him.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="351">Q: And yet your early memories were good.</sentence><sentence id="352">Early memories everybody was friendly.</sentence><sentence id="353">It all changed.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="357">A: That doesn't change.</sentence><sentence id="358">And I think nothing change today.</sentence><sentence id="359">I don't think something change deg star (Yiddish).</sentence><sentence id="360">today.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="366">Q: But what I am saying is when you were young you lived around a lot of Polish people and everybody was friends?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="368">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="369">Because, you know, everybody was friends because we was young, little one.</sentence><sentence id="370">I was very young.</sentence><sentence id="371">So we don't see the difference but in the moment when we come just to the reason, the moment when the brain start to work, they change.</sentence><sentence id="372">They change today because maybe, like I say, maybe the <span class="BUILDING">churches</span>, maybe the priest, maybe they put the poison in this brains.</sentence><sentence id="373">Maybe the brainwash you, I don't know what.</sentence><sentence id="374">They always know that they pretend always, "The Jews they kill Christus -- Jesus Christus."</sentence><sentence id="375">What I have to do with 2000 years with all this thing?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="384">Q: At what point were you sent to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> and why were you sent there?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="386">A: I was sent to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> because like I say we was poor.</sentence><sentence id="387">It was very hard and this time, it was time when I have to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> and it was maybe very hard to my mother, you know.</sentence><sentence id="388">So somebody give her the address from this <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> and she put me there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="392">Q: Do you remember what year this was?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="394">A: This should be about "35, 1934, "35, maybe "36, in this year.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="396">Q: Can you tell me in a full sentence what that is 1934, 1935 you were sent to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> and tell me what it was called?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="398">A: What you mean it was called?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="400">Q: What was the name of this <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="402">A: This was -- I'm sorry Dom Sierot".</sentence><sentence id="403">It was Polish this is <span class="BUILDING">orphan home</span> for the <span class="BUILDING">orphanages</span> and this was a private -- not private, but we have to pay.</sentence><sentence id="404">But I think they reach people from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> who support themselves and this was the hope -- the director -- maybe for her was Dr. Janusz Korczak.</sentence><sentence id="405">His really name is Henry Goldsmith.</sentence><sentence id="406">He was a doctor and they have the Mrs. Wilczynska(r), she was the director too because Dr. Korezak doesn't was always there.</sentence><sentence id="407">I think he was busy, you know, to collect the money, to collect all the things for us.</sentence><sentence id="408">And he have always an audition on the radio.</sentence><sentence id="409">He talk on the radio once a week, I think.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="410">7 <span class="BUILDING">Orphan home</span> (Polish)</sentence></p><p><sentence id="411">(r) Stephania Wilczynska (1886-1942), head teacher and co-director of <span class="BUILDING">Korezak's orphanage</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="412">Q: He was well known?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="413">A: Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="414">And they call him the stary" doctor, the old doctor.</sentence><sentence id="415">And I remember he took me once with him to the radio and he was -- moment I was I think, in September, October it was cold <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="416">He talk about the flu, and there was a moment I have to cough and I forgot to cough and he say "Cough, cough, cough."</sentence><sentence id="417">And then I did it.</sentence><sentence id="418">He was a very, very nice man and we was there 107 children, 56 girls and 51 boys.</sentence><sentence id="419">My number was 46.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="427">Q: How old were you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="429">A: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bitte'deg</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="431">Q: About how old were you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="433">A: About six, seven years.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="435">Q: No, no, how old were you when you went into the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="437">A: Seven years, maybe.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="439">Q: Oh, you were young?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="441">A: Yes, yes.</sentence><sentence id="442">They don't took old people because when you were 13, 14 years, you have to leave -- to live -- you have to go out because they took somebody else in your <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="445">Q: Now, did your brothers and sisters go with you to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="447">A: I was alone but sometimes, every Saturday I go <span class="BUILDING">home</span> to visit my parents and there, I was there a whole year.</sentence><sentence id="448">But in summertime we have a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> they call <span class="BUILDING">Kolonia Rozyczka</span>"" and it was a vacation.</sentence><sentence id="449">I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="450">So when I come in they took me out from the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> the <span class="BUILDING">Christian school</span> and they send me to the <span class="BUILDING">Jewish school</span>, not the Jewish, but it was a <span class="BUILDING">public school</span> but it was most Jews was there.</sentence><sentence id="451">That was there.</sentence><sentence id="452">So when we have vacation so we went to the <span class="BUILDING">kolonia</span>"* for two months and I have my little brother.</sentence><sentence id="453">So it was hard for me.</sentence><sentence id="454">It was so nice.</sentence><sentence id="455">It was so good that I have food.</sentence><sentence id="456">I have nice <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> I have everything.</sentence><sentence id="457">He have to stay <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, so I ask, I make questions and they allow him.</sentence><sentence id="458">So I went <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and he was in my <span class="NPIP">place</span> for one month.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="471">Q: Was this after you went to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>, or before?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="473">A: In the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="474">* old (Polish)</sentence></p><p><sentence id="475">(c) please, pardon (Yiddish)</sentence></p><p><sentence id="476">"" <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Little Rose Camp</span> (Polish); children's summer camp connected with <span class="BUILDING">Korezak's orphanage</span>.</sentence></p><p><sentence id="477">2 <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">summer camp</span> (Polish)</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="478">Q: The <span class="BUILDING">school</span> you were talking about, was that part of the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="479">A: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="481">Q: And the other thing I'm confused about, if you don't mind is -- now, you were born in 1925?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="483">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="485">Q: And your father died in, around maybe 1935?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="487">A: I don't know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="489">Q: You don't remember exactly?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="491">A: No.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="493">Q: So you went to the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> after that.</sentence><sentence id="494">I was thinking you would be a couple years older?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="497">A: Maybe.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="499">Q: You don't remember exactly how old you were?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="501">A: I don't remember.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="503">Q: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="504">But your parents sent you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="507">A: My mother, yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="509">Q: Can you talk about life in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="511">A: Life in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>, it was very nice.</sentence><sentence id="512">First of all, we, you know, everybody have his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="513">You have to, like you say, <span class="INT_SPACE">sleeping places</span> for the girls, for the boys, everybody have his own <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="514">And I think, like I remember this day, it was six, six-thirty in the morning.</sentence><sentence id="515">We have to be washed, clothed and we have a breakfast and everybody have to prepare to go to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="516">We went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> so we went to different <span class="BUILDING">schools</span>.</sentence><sentence id="517">And the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> -- I remember the first couple years when the first I start from the third degree because I was already-- so after <span class="BUILDING">school</span> start one o'clock to six afternoon.</sentence><sentence id="518">So before we have breakfast and everybody have to make his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> and we have to clean the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>.</sentence><sentence id="519">And the -- we have to make the homeworks, and after we have lunch and then have to be dressed, shoes shined and we went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="520">And we have some people, some children who start the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> at eight o'clock in the morning until one o'clock.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="531">Q: Did you -- was there a certain organization in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence><sentence id="532">Did you each have responsibilities or --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="535">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="536">Everybody have his responsibilities, they have to take care.</sentence><sentence id="537">First one, the oldest take care the youngsters.</sentence><sentence id="538">So when you arrive about 10 years, 11 years and when a youngster come in, so you take care of him.</sentence><sentence id="539">You teach him.</sentence><sentence id="540">You say the rules for the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>, you know.</sentence><sentence id="541">Until a certain time you was responsible for him.</sentence><sentence id="542">If he do something that not supposed to be, you be punished.</sentence><sentence id="543">Not him.</sentence><sentence id="544">But this guy, what was responsible for the child, he was punished.</sentence><sentence id="545">But children thinks it was very, very -- but still -- and you know, we have like supper all together.</sentence><sentence id="546">It was about seven o'clock supper and we could play.</sentence><sentence id="547">We have ping pong.</sentence><sentence id="548">We have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">piano</span> and we have lessons every day you could.</sentence><sentence id="549">They teach us to play mandolin if you want to or the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">piano</span>.</sentence><sentence id="550">They teach us Hebrew always when you want to.</sentence><sentence id="551">Nobody force you to do something.</sentence><sentence id="552">And you know, they have all kind of -- wintertime, we went out and we play with winter things and we have, we can go ice skating too.</sentence><sentence id="553">So it was very, very nice, very pleasant.</sentence><sentence id="554">But Saturday after dinner everybody could go <span class="BUILDING">home</span> to the parent or visit the parent or something like that, and sometimes we make a play in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> and we would invite the parents and they come.</sentence><sentence id="555">We invite the parents and they come to ho... see how the play.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="577">Q: Now, were the people -- the kids in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> -- were they Christian or Jewish?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="579">A: No, no.</sentence><sentence id="580">It was just Jewish.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="583">Q: Just Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="584">What were the ages?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="587">A: The ages were from six to 14; 13, 14 years.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="589">Q: And how long did you stay in there?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="591">A: I was until the war, 1939, even I was longer.</sentence><sentence id="592">When I finished the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> they find -- summertime and place I was working in an <span class="BUILDING">office</span>.</sentence><sentence id="593">The <span class="BUILDING">office</span>, the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> they make all kind office supplies like pens, like all these things, and I was in the <span class="BUILDING">office</span> there and this was summertime because my brother was in <span class="COUNTRY">kolonia</span>, so it was until 1939, until the Germans come in.</sentence><sentence id="594">When the German come in, so the owner from this company they give it over to peoples.</sentence><sentence id="595">I think they was swear in or something like that, and they go in.</sentence><sentence id="596">And when they swear and they go in, every Jew have to go out.</sentence><sentence id="597">We -- I was laid off from there.</sentence><sentence id="598">And at this time, like I say, I went back to the <span class="BUILDING">kolonia</span> -- to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because in the wartime the peoples they steal the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>, and the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">mattress</span> and the all the extras that we have there.</sentence><sentence id="599">So we call the police and they went with the police, to the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span>, and take all the things back.</sentence><sentence id="600">So when the all the people, all the children going back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> because they think the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> going to start.</sentence><sentence id="601">So we was three or five still there in the 0 <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> to take care of that because we have -- it was a very, very big <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="602">So this was until maybe -- "til 1941.</sentence><sentence id="603">I remember it was, I remember it was a winter there to take care, and after the Germans come and they make a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> for this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because there was lots of <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="604">They have like <span class="DLF">sleeping block</span>.</sentence><sentence id="605">Block for the boys, <span class="DLF">sleeping block</span> for the girls, with a very big <span class="INT_SPACE">dining room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="606">Have a <span class="INT_SPACE">kitchen</span>.</sentence><sentence id="607">We have a very big <span class="INT_SPACE">washroom</span>, you know, to take <span class="INT_SPACE">showers</span> and all this thing.</sentence><sentence id="608">And so Germans come in.</sentence><sentence id="609">They took this away and they make a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="610">Because there was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> is called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.19655" long="21.158771">Wawer</span>, and they took all the Jews to put them, and they make a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="611">And they started again with the killing there and with the shooting.</sentence><sentence id="612">All the <span class="NPIP">things</span>.</sentence><sentence id="613">So I was there a little time.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="637">Q: I'm sorry to stop you, but I want to talk a little bit more about the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> before we talk about the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, if you don't mind.</sentence><sentence id="638">So in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> it sounds like you had a good time?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="641">A: Very good time.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="643">Q: Sounds like you had a good time.</sentence><sentence id="644">And tell me a little bit more about Dr. Korezak.</sentence><sentence id="645">What was he like?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="649">A: Dr. Korezak was a terrific man.</sentence><sentence id="650">He was good.</sentence><sentence id="651">This man was, I can't describe you.</sentence><sentence id="652">He didn't have no hair.</sentence><sentence id="653">He have a little beard.</sentence><sentence id="654">He was a beautiful, good man.</sentence><sentence id="655">He was a doctor.</sentence><sentence id="656">He was a very, very good man, and he kiss everybody.</sentence><sentence id="657">He was so warm -- is very hard.</sentence><sentence id="658">Something wonderful, something terrific about this man and I wonder because nobody talk about him.</sentence><sentence id="659">They make a movie but is far away from what he was really.</sentence><sentence id="660">He was a doctor -- really, really, really, really, good.</sentence><sentence id="661">He was like more than a father.</sentence><sentence id="662">He was a father to 107 and maybe -- what do I say -- yes, 107 children -- but you have some teachers there, about 120 peoples.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="677">Q: It sounds like he was quite a character.</sentence><sentence id="678">He was going out and getting money.</sentence><sentence id="679">He was all over the <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="680">He had Polish friends and Jewish friends?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="685">A Yes.</sentence><sentence id="686">First of all, I don't think so.</sentence><sentence id="687">I don't know exactly, but I don't think so.</sentence><sentence id="688">The Polish people, they wouldn't accept him like a Jew because his name is -- Korczak is really Polish name -- but his name is, was Henry Goldsmith.</sentence><sentence id="689">This was his really, really, really name.</sentence><sentence id="690">And I think he was from a very nice family and he travel very much before the war.</sentence><sentence id="691">He was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.4546411" long="13.3818501">Berlin</span>, he was in <span class="COUNTRY">Austria</span> and even the German, lots of German know him.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="699">Q: How was he able to accomplish all of this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="701">A: I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="702">I can't tell because unique.</sentence><sentence id="703">He was very, very nice and every time when somebody was sick or what, he was always there.</sentence><sentence id="704">When we need him he was always 1 there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="709">Q: Do you have any other real distinct memories about him like the radio show?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="711">A: He was -- I remember once, like I say, he went once with him out in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and he had on always his uniform -- because he was major in the army in the Polish Army.</sentence><sentence id="712">So you have the uniform and I tell him, "Doctor, please, why you put the uniform?</sentence><sentence id="713">It's so dangerous, it's so dangerous.</sentence><sentence id="714">Why you don't take them out?"</sentence><sentence id="715">He say, "Oh, no, this is my uniform.</sentence><sentence id="716">I'm a Polish soldier.</sentence><sentence id="717">I'm going to keep the uniform."</sentence><sentence id="718">And I remember when we was in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, some Polish people, women, come in and ask for the Doctor, "Doctor, please, my child is sick," or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="719">It doesn't make no question what kind, if it's Jew, if it's not Jew.</sentence><sentence id="720">What happened?</sentence><sentence id="721">He took -- I remember he had a little, little bag.</sentence><sentence id="722">He took his little bag.</sentence><sentence id="723">He went to the people and doesn't charge, doesn't take any money.</sentence><sentence id="724">Don't take nothing.</sentence><sentence id="725">I don't think so, for this man he was any difference.</sentence><sentence id="726">He was -- he don't think any difference if he's a Jew, if he's not a Jew -- a human being, a child.</sentence><sentence id="727">That's it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="745">Q: I understand he wouldn't wear the Jewish star?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="747">A: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Bitte</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="749">Q: I understand he wouldn't wear a Jewish star?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="751">A: I don't think so, no.</sentence><sentence id="752">I don't think so, I don't know if he speak Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="753">He never -- with other Jewish, if he speak Jewish, he never speak Jewish.</sentence><sentence id="754">Something like that, he was a human being.</sentence><sentence id="755">A 150 percent human being.</sentence><sentence id="756">I don't think so you can find men like that today.</sentence><sentence id="757">He was...</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="765">Q: Now, you were there for several years until the war?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="767">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="769">Q: And then you left, and at that point were any of your brothers and sisters also in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="771">A: No, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="772">It was just my little brother.</sentence><sentence id="773">He wasn't in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>.</sentence><sentence id="774">It was just in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">vacation</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> there, but not special.</sentence><sentence id="775">He don't know his name, so they call him "Maly"* Icek" -- the "Little Icek".</sentence><sentence id="776">Because that's -- he was always one month, because, you know, vacation time, like here, they're vacation took two months and one month I was <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and he was there.</sentence><sentence id="777">8 Small (Polish).</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="787">Q: Now, you didn't really have to leave during the war because the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> stayed together, but were you at an age where you were ready to leave the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="789">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="790">Just in the wartime in 1939 I was age, you know, to live there, but I couldn't come every day or once, twice a week to eat no supper, the meals with the friends all together until 1939, until the war.</sentence><sentence id="791">That's when the war, yes, 1940, until the war.</sentence><sentence id="792">So they need help because the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was empty.</sentence><sentence id="793">Everything was stolen and the children, they was too young to go.</sentence><sentence id="794">So they ask me if I would, I would and I say, yes, I -- and there was nothing to do there, the <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="795">We have no more <span class="BUILDING">school</span> because the Jews, you couldn't go nowhere.</sentence><sentence id="796">So I went and I was there and then -- in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> until the Germans make a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="797">And after when they start with all this shooting and all this thing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="807">Q: So you helped out with the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> a little bit when you were older?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="809">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="811">Q: Did you make good friends in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="813">A: Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="814">Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="815">I have very good friends I have even, yes, a little girlfriend -- very nice.</sentence><sentence id="816">She not survive.</sentence><sentence id="817">She go over, over with Korczak to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">oven</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="823">Q: Do you remember what your duties were in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="825">A: My duty, yes.</sentence><sentence id="826">My duty was after breakfast I have to go and, you know, we have <span class="DLF">passages</span> between the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>, and I have, I think, two <span class="INT_SPACE">passages</span> to clean, with the broom and the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> was polished.</sentence><sentence id="827">That was my job and sometimes we change.</sentence><sentence id="828">So I have to wash the cups in the morning after breakfast, and there was a girl, Ewa Zylberberg, she is no more there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="833">Q: She was your girlfriend in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="835">A: Yes, young love.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="837">Q: Very young.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="839">A: Yeah.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="841">Q: Did the girls have different jobs than the boys or did everybody --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="843">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="844">It depends.</sentence><sentence id="845">They have to, but most of the girls were working in the <span class="BUILDING">clothes shop</span>.</sentence><sentence id="846">Not the <span class="BUILDING">shop</span> but, you know, like to sew the numbers, and sometimes they have, the socks to repair and to see after our clothes.</sentence><sentence id="847">Something like that.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="855">Q: Everybody had numbers on your clothes?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="857">A: Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="858">Everybody.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="861">Q: Why is that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="863">A: Because not to mix them, because I say I could have maybe 10, 11, 12 years and there was a little one who was six years who was maybe short, too high, so everybody have his clothes.</sentence><sentence id="864">So when they come from the washing, everybody knows this one was his.</sentence><sentence id="865">Everybody know there one was his and there was one was hers -- everybody have a number and my number was 46.</sentence><sentence id="866">So, you know, if you go to take <span class="INT_SPACE">showers</span> you have to change underwear, so the underwear was there.</sentence><sentence id="867">So I don't want to take somebody else because I know my number is 46.</sentence><sentence id="868">So I have to take number 46, the socks were 46.Everything in the -- everything was marked.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="876">Q: Were there other ways in which the girls and the boys were different in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="878">A: There was girl and boys, yes.</sentence><sentence id="879">There was difference but, you know, we were -- they handled us exactly the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="880">They have <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tables</span>, you know, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span> -- I think we was six children, I think.</sentence><sentence id="881">So there was boys and girls together for the breakfast, for lunch or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="882">They was all together.</sentence><sentence id="883">There was no difference.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="890">Q: You just had different <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">jobs</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="892">A: We had different jobs.</sentence><sentence id="893">Even we went to <span class="BUILDING">school</span> together, everything.</sentence><sentence id="894">Even in the same class together.</sentence><sentence id="895">We was together but, you know, when it was time to go to <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, that's only difference.</sentence><sentence id="896">That's it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="902">Q: It sounds like it was a really nice experience.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="904">A: I think it was one of the nice, this time in young.</sentence><sentence id="905">It was the nicest time, the best time in my life -- this time, you know, if you don't have no war.</sentence><sentence id="906">We have everything.</sentence><sentence id="907">We don't have no war.</sentence><sentence id="908">We have everything -- and you can't imagine -- something is coming like holidays.</sentence><sentence id="909">When I say "holidays" the Christian holidays.</sentence><sentence id="910">So we have -- we receive oranges.</sentence><sentence id="911">It was something.</sentence><sentence id="912">You -- this was something in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> for the war, an orange was something.</sentence><sentence id="913">You can't dream about that.</sentence><sentence id="914">And this coming from <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, you know, from <span class="COUNTRY">Palestine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="915">This time it was <span class="BUILDING">market</span>; Jaffa oranges, bananas, all kind of fruit.</sentence><sentence id="916">Was something.</sentence><sentence id="917">It was amazing.</sentence><sentence id="918">Nobody can dream about this, in this time and it's as poor who we was.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="934">Q: How was Korczak able to get the money to do all of this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="938">A: Like I say, this guy, he doesn't rest.</sentence><sentence id="939">He run the whole days and like I say -- there was very rich people in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, and poor ones too.</sentence><sentence id="940">Was Jewish people, and they support and I think the Jewish organization from <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> to help him, lots of them.</sentence><sentence id="941">Because you know Mrs. Stefa Wilczynska, I think she went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence><sentence id="942">This was maybe "36 or "37, I don't remember exactly, and the plan was to take all the <span class="BUILDING">orphanages</span>, all the children to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence><sentence id="943">But no time.</sentence><sentence id="944">And after, when I was there, you know, when the German come into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, they make a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="945">How we come in it, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="946">There I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">kolonia</span> but I know it was very, very big problem.</sentence><sentence id="947">My brothers, my sisters, my mother, she doesn't have food, she doesn't -- nothing to eat absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="948">So when they make the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="949">So I know a man, he was a butcher.</sentence><sentence id="950">So he come to me and say, "You know what, if you want to make some money, you can earn some money.</sentence><sentence id="951">Like you have a face nobody can say you a Jew.</sentence><sentence id="952">You take meat.</sentence><sentence id="953">You go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="954">You sell the meat.</sentence><sentence id="955">I give you the address, everything and you have some money.</sentence><sentence id="956">You help me, you help yourself.</sentence><sentence id="957">You can help your family."</sentence><sentence id="958">So at certain time every day in the morning, about five o'clock in the morning when the first <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span> pass -- because in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Warsaw ghetto</span>, it was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span> passing by the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, but nobody can go down.</sentence><sentence id="959">It pass just the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and it was from one <span class="REGION">Christian side</span> to the other.</sentence><sentence id="960">Nobody can see go in, because there was police there and they take care.</sentence><sentence id="961">So I have every day, every day I have my shoulder -- I have in back, and I have meat.</sentence><sentence id="962">I don't remember exactly, maybe 25 kilo, 30 kilo, and I have, a band with the -- and this one I took it.</sentence><sentence id="963">I have it in my pocket.</sentence><sentence id="964">So, he told me, he teach me, he say, ""You know you go there and when the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>, it pass, it turn to the second <span class="DLF">street</span> he slowed down, and this time you go down and you go in the <span class="BUILDING">house</span>.</sentence><sentence id="965">You put on your things and you go, and this and this address.</sentence><sentence id="966">You said it, you're going to have it."</sentence><sentence id="967">But I say, "but the police!" "</sentence><sentence id="968">So the police -- don't worry, the police going to turn his back with the hand behind and you push in some money and doesn't see, doesn't look at you."</sentence><sentence id="969">It was to every day, every day.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1002">Q: This was the Jewish police or the German police?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1004">A: No, no.</sentence><sentence id="1005">Polish police.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1008">Q: Polish police.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1010">A: Every day I go down and it was very -- at <span class="BUILDING">home</span> -- that was nothing to eat, nothing, and I had to help them.</sentence><sentence id="1011">And this one the of the reasons.</sentence><sentence id="1012">That's why I help them I go over this meat.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1016">Q: So you got on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1017">You took off your armband and you went out to the <span class="REGION">Polish side</span> to meet with --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1020">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="1021">I go out from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1022">I was on the <span class="REGION">Polish side</span>, so I don't have no band.</sentence><sentence id="1023">Off.</sentence><sentence id="1024">I went 5 to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1025">Off.</sentence><sentence id="1026">I pay my <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span> and I have to take in correspondence and second ticket.</sentence><sentence id="1027">And when I come in the <span class="DLF">street</span> and I take the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>, the same <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>, it pass the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> from the other side of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> to the <span class="REGION">Polish side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1028">So I go in and the policeman was there with his hand behind his back, I give him some money.</sentence><sentence id="1029">I jump down.</sentence><sentence id="1030">I put my armband and I was a Jew and nobody see.</sentence><sentence id="1031">And when I sold the meat.</sentence><sentence id="1032">I give the meat, I have some money so I could buy something, potatoes or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="1033">I took it <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1034">I give them and I go out and I wait exactly the same <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1035">When the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span> is coming, take off my band, jump on the -- and I was a Polack again.</sentence><sentence id="1036">One day in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> there was a man, a butcher too, he was killing the cattles so he say, "you know, I going to give you" -- I remember very, very, well, "25 zlotys."</sentence><sentence id="1037">It was very, very, much money -- "when you bring me my knife."</sentence><sentence id="1038">You know, the man have a special knife to kill.</sentence><sentence id="1039">So I say, "okay."</sentence><sentence id="1040">You know, young, no brains, I don't see the danger what I going to do.</sentence><sentence id="1041">So he give me the address and when I go down with my meat, I sold the meat.</sentence><sentence id="1042">I go to my mother, give her the money.</sentence><sentence id="1043">So I go in this <span class="NPIP">place</span> and I think he going give me a little knife.</sentence><sentence id="1044">She give me a knife like that, so I say, "I promise, "I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it."</sentence><sentence id="1045">I put the knife -- it was in box -- I put it in here between my shirt and my body.</sentence><sentence id="1046">I put it there and exactly the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="1047">Jump on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1048">But I don't go in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1049">I was just in the front by the driver and when I was there, two Gestapo come out.</sentence><sentence id="1050">They doesn't talk to me.</sentence><sentence id="1051">I don't talk to them.</sentence><sentence id="1052">I was quiet do nothing and I went "til the end on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span> until the terminus of the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1053">And I bring him the knife.</sentence><sentence id="1054">And he was wondering, "How you do that?"</sentence><sentence id="1055">He give me 25 dollars.</sentence><sentence id="1056">You can imagine what this 25 dollars in this days, lots and lots of money.</sentence><sentence id="1057">And when they start, you know, with the Jews and they start to make trouble, and they start to take the Jews to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camps</span> from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1058">And I say "Stop, I have to go."</sentence><sentence id="1059">So I run away and I was marching from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span> -- that's about 50 kilometers.</sentence><sentence id="1060">There, my older brother was there, my mother was there, and there it doesn't -- was, you know, <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> was split.</sentence><sentence id="1061">The Generalgouvernement" and the <span class="REGION">annexed territory</span> and there was <span class="REGION">territory</span> -- so I want to go there, and I was walking two days and when I arrived there so.</sentence><sentence id="1062">It was okay the first time.</sentence><sentence id="1063">There was no <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> there and they was living not so very well, but okay.</sentence><sentence id="1064">We was in little <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>, like here would be ten peoples, but it was okay and I start to work by turps"*.</sentence><sentence id="1065">You know what turps?</sentence><sentence id="1066">Turps, that's when they take a piece out from the <span class="DLF">air</span> and when it was dry the people burn that, like coal.</sentence><sentence id="1067">And I was working very, very, very hard when I was working there and I --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1116">Q: Can I stop you a moment?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1118">A: Yes. "</sentence><sentence id="1119">4 German established <span class="REGION">administrative territory</span> encompassing portions of <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> that were not incorportated into the Reich after the German invasion of <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> in 1939. "</sentence><sentence id="1120">S turpentine 6</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1125">Q: First of all how are we on tape?</sentence><sentence id="1126">I want to make sure we have enough tape.</sentence><sentence id="1127">I want to just go back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> a minute.</sentence><sentence id="1128">I'm sort of curious about what it was like in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and how your life changed and how your family lived and what a day was like?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1133">A: Oh, God.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1135">Q: I know it's not a happy memory.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1137">A: First of all, they took all the Jews.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1139">Q: Can you start out by just saying in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1141">A: In the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, exactly what happened in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, I can't tell you.</sentence><sentence id="1142">I was not very long in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, but I know everytime -- when I come there, I see people lying <span class="NPIP">outside</span> starving.</sentence><sentence id="1143">The German come in, they laughing, you know, they make all kind of pictures from the poor peoples and it was is very, very hard to explain you.</sentence><sentence id="1144">It's not a life.</sentence><sentence id="1145">The people you have -- the people are dead, all dead.</sentence><sentence id="1146">You don't have nothing there, nothing there.</sentence><sentence id="1147">No food, cold.</sentence><sentence id="1148">Peoples was <span class="NPIP">outside</span> begging you for pieces of bread and some, they have children they go in the past the <span class="DLF">wall</span>, you know, to the <span class="REGION">Polish side</span> to take something, to have some potatoes and when they was chased from the Germans, they kill them, they shoot them, I -- you know, I can't explain to you.</sentence><sentence id="1149">I can't explain.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1159">Q: Did you ever see this happen?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1161">A: I saw, yes.</sentence><sentence id="1162">I remember once like I said, you know, one time I have my meat on my back and I have to go, and I couldn't go down because they have a German soldier, German gendarme was in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tram</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1163">I couldn't go down.</sentence><sentence id="1164">I have to go "til the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1165">When I arrived there it was just in <span class="DLF">cemetery</span>, in <span class="DLF">Jewish cemetery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1166">To go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, I have to pass the <span class="DLF">cemetery</span> and I arrive in the middle from the <span class="DLF">cemetery</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1167">They start to shoot.</sentence><sentence id="1168">I hear, you know with the machine gun, and I was there.</sentence><sentence id="1169">So I said, "Now is finished."</sentence><sentence id="1170">So, you know in this time there was so many dead people, because by the Jews you have no right to make the <span class="DLF">grave</span> before you have the body at the <span class="DLF">cemetery</span> and the preparer of the <span class="DLF">holes</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1171">One thing that I have to do is I have to jump there and I have lie the whole night between two deads -- and I hear what the shooting, what the machine guns around and they was walking over my head.</sentence><sentence id="1172">So you can imagine.</sentence><sentence id="1173">It was the whole night there in this <span class="DLF">hole</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1187">Q: Should we stop and change tape?</sentence><sentence id="1188">7 Tape #2</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1189">Q: All right.</sentence><sentence id="1190">So let's just talk a little bit more about the conditions and in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and the structure of it.</sentence><sentence id="1191">What was going on with the Jewish council and the Jewish police?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1195">A: It was the Jewish police to take care and sometimes they make -- they took the peoples go out from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, you know, with the Germans to work.</sentence><sentence id="1196">All kind of work.</sentence><sentence id="1197">Like wintertime to clean the snow, clean the <span class="DLF">highways</span> and all kind of things like that.</sentence><sentence id="1198">And sometimes they took them to work, you know, to make the uniforms for the Germans.</sentence><sentence id="1199">But there was nobody have the chance to have something and it was very, very, very, hard in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1200">In the <span class="DLF">street</span> and every <span class="NPIP">place</span>, you have dead peoples, and peoples begging.</sentence><sentence id="1201">It was, you know, horrible to see.</sentence><sentence id="1202">Really is very, very hard to explain.</sentence><sentence id="1203">It's just -- I can't believe that I passed there.</sentence><sentence id="1204">I saw all this.</sentence><sentence id="1205">It's no human nature can see this.</sentence><sentence id="1206">You know, I saw lots of things but it was, it's really terrible.</sentence><sentence id="1207">I can't understand, you know, because the Germans they are cultivated people and they couldn't do things like that.</sentence><sentence id="1208">I can't understand it.</sentence><sentence id="1209">I can't, I can't understand it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1225">Q: Were there activities going on?</sentence><sentence id="1226">Was there any semblance of real life in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1227">Was there music?</sentence><sentence id="1228">Was there <span class="BUILDING">school</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1233">A Yes, <span class="BUILDING">school</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1234">Nobody <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, you know, when sometimes you have the teachers, the Jewish teachers were teaching in the <span class="BUILDING">school</span> before the war.</sentence><sentence id="1235">They're teaching their own children.</sentence><sentence id="1236">They can do that for nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1237">Nobody want to pay.</sentence><sentence id="1238">And every time when the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Jewish community</span>, the community when the German make and they're always -- they ask for money and they ask the peoples to work and they send the peoples, you know, to the different <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> to break the stones to make <span class="DLF">highways</span>, and all kind of things.</sentence><sentence id="1239">Because the Germans, they was the was the worst.</sentence><sentence id="1240">The work -- they need the uniforms.</sentence><sentence id="1241">They need everything, so the Jews was very cheap labor.</sentence><sentence id="1242">So they took the peoples and that's it.</sentence><sentence id="1243">Sometimes, I remember, my brother tell me once he was -- they took him in <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, in a big <span class="BUILDING">school</span>, and they give him brush, teeth brush to wash the <span class="INT_SPACE">floors</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1244">And there was the <span class="INT_SPACE">ladies" room</span>, they have to take off pants and to clean it.</sentence><sentence id="1245">It was terrible.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1259">Q: Now, weren't there also more secretive activities going on?</sentence><sentence id="1260">Weren't there youth organization and <span class="BUILDING">schools</span> and cultural activities?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1263">A: Nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1264">You have sometimes, but you need money for <span class="BUILDING">clubs</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1265">We have some <span class="BUILDING">clubs</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1266">We have some singers.</sentence><sentence id="1267">We have some players.</sentence><sentence id="1268">But you need money to get in.</sentence><sentence id="1269">Where you going to take the money?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1279">Q: So there wasn't so much?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1281">A: There was nothing, most of nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1282">It was very hard for the living, very hard.</sentence><sentence id="1283">And after they start to evacuate the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, to take to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="51.222764" long="22.5984247">Majdanek</span>, to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Treblinka</span>, and the peoples they start to know they kill these people.</sentence><sentence id="1284">So it was the ghetto uprising.</sentence><sentence id="1285">Maybe you remember.</sentence><sentence id="1286">Maybe you hear about that.</sentence><sentence id="1287">It was too something terrible and this people <span class="NPIP">inside</span>, they begging <span class="NPIP">outside</span> they ask to help.</sentence><sentence id="1288">They ask the Russian, they a and the American, they ask the German.</sentence><sentence id="1289">I think the English to help to send some weapons, send some ammunition.</sentence><sentence id="1290">Nothing is coming, absolute nothing, nothing, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1291">So what they do?They kill out -- they killed everybody and they burn.</sentence><sentence id="1292">The whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> was destroyed.</sentence><sentence id="1293">Everything was destroyed.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1308">Q: But there were youth organizations that were involved in the resistance there?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1310">A: The youth organizations doesn't help us with absolute nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1312">Q: There was --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1314">A: They couldn't help.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1316">Q: It didn't work, but there was resistance?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1318">A: There was Resistance, yes, and the underground too, but the underground was from the Polish people, and some people, some Jews, they was escaped from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, escape from the uprising.</sentence><sentence id="1319">They went to the partisans, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1320">And that's all, I think.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1324">Q: Well, there was also resistance within the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1326">A: The what?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1328">Q: There was also resistance effort inside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1330">A: Inside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, but not in this time.</sentence><sentence id="1331">It was when they start to evacuate this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> because nobody, nobody can imagine they going to send peoples -- they going to burn their whole family.</sentence><sentence id="1332">They are going to kill their whole family, and the killing going on and going on and going on, until they come, until to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1333">There was the uprising, but what could they help?</sentence><sentence id="1334">They had nothing, no rifles, no absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1335">They have little bit, but absolute nothing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1342">Q: Now, I think we were talking about this off camera, so I just want to make sure you say 9 this for the record, that where was your family and where were you at this point?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1344">A: What?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1346">Q: I just want you to say what you told me for the record, which was essentially, that your family was in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, you, one of the youngest, were out doing things.</sentence><sentence id="1347">How did all of this happen?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1350">A: You know, when we was in <span class="BUILDING">shelter</span> after, when the Germans come in, and because the <span class="INT_SPACE">apartment</span> we was living was burned up.</sentence><sentence id="1351">We had absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1352">So we went to the <span class="BUILDING">bath house</span> and we find a <span class="BUILDING">shelter</span>, but when the Germans come in we have to move from there to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1353">I was with Korczak at this time.</sentence><sentence id="1354">This was in 1940, "41, I think.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1360">Q: You need to explain to us that you were no longer really in the <span class="BUILDING">orphanage</span> at this point.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1362">You were at --</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1363">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1365">Q: You were at the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">summer camp</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1367">A: At this time I was -- this was in summer.</sentence><sentence id="1368">I think in summertime they move from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1369">And they ask me, too, if I want to go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1370">I say, "yeah," because I didn't have nothing to do there, and they start the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1371">All the Jews have to go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> -- towards the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, and this time even my mother say, "What you going to do here?</sentence><sentence id="1372">Go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>."</sentence><sentence id="1373">I went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and how to come to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="1374">I know once, you know, they give me the address.</sentence><sentence id="1375">I knew they was in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and there was very, very bad situation.</sentence><sentence id="1376">Very bad situation.</sentence><sentence id="1377">They was hungry.</sentence><sentence id="1378">They have nothing to eat, and "this," I decide "this time."</sentence><sentence id="1379">So I have possibility to help them and this was my opportunity to help them, risk my life to help them.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1393">Q: And this was because you were outside of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1395">A: Yes, that's right.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1397">Q: But you moved pretty freely between the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and outside the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1398">You seemed to get back and forth pretty well.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1401">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="1402">I have to go and I was feeling very angry because I saw the Polish people, the Polish boys in my age they running free.</sentence><sentence id="1403">They eating.</sentence><sentence id="1404">They have everything, and I have to hiding myself all over.</sentence><sentence id="1405">Take care.</sentence><sentence id="1406">Doesn't talk, doesn't speak, doesn't go nowhere.</sentence><sentence id="1407">You keep yourself.</sentence><sentence id="1408">You just -- you know, because don't forget one thing, "You a Jew, you a Jew, you don't have no right to live."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1417">Q: Did you pretend you weren't a Jew?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1421">A: I pretend I wasn't a Jew, but one thing I know.</sentence><sentence id="1422">I say to myself, "If this was finished, I don't want to be any more a Jew.</sentence><sentence id="1423">I don't know why they hate me.</sentence><sentence id="1424">I don't do nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1425">I can't understand.</sentence><sentence id="1426">I don't want to -- I want to be free.</sentence><sentence id="1427">I want to eat.</sentence><sentence id="1428">I want a piece of bread like everybody.</sentence><sentence id="1429">I don't want to hate you."</sentence><sentence id="1430">This was in my mind.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1441">Q: This is while you were still a boy before the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1443">A: Before the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span> -- maybe not.</sentence><sentence id="1444">When I escaped from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, I went, you know, to my family.</sentence><sentence id="1445">There I know there was Jew.</sentence><sentence id="1446">It was hard for me too, sometimes I think about not to be Jew, but I born a Jew, I couldn't help it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1451">Q: So when you were helping your family, they were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1452">You were on the <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="1455">When you were on the <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, did you talk to people, did you pretend you weren't a Jew?</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1456">A: I don't talk to nobody.</sentence><sentence id="1457">I was scared, very scared, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1458">Each time, if somebody recognize me or what, because first of all, with the meat.</sentence><sentence id="1459">Second, if a Jew, they kill me -- they kill me one hundred per cent.</sentence><sentence id="1460">Not scared -- yes, I was scared but it was, I say, look, like what they can do to me?</sentence><sentence id="1461">Kill me, that's it.</sentence><sentence id="1462">Not kill, but hang me?</sentence><sentence id="1463">That's it, you know.</sentence><sentence id="1464">Because they say if you're a Jew, a bullet too expensive.</sentence><sentence id="1465">I couldn't help.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1476">Q: Did you ever spend much time in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Warsaw ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1478">A: Every time a couple hours, but really long time, no.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1480">Q: Was there any sort of <span class="INT_SPACE">confinement</span> or ghetto up at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Rose Camp</span>"*?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1482">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="1483">I don't think so.</sentence><sentence id="1484">One thing, I was very happy when I went out.</sentence><sentence id="1485">I feel a little bit, I'm free a little bit, but <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1486">But inside, you know, my heart was beating very, very -- every time when I was in gendarme -- in the German gendarme I said, "Oh!</sentence><sentence id="1487">You finished, you finished."</sentence><sentence id="1488">Like the same thing when I have the knife in my back and why I go on this <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">streetcar</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1489">Just the two Gestapo come in, and I don't want to say they followed me, but in the way -- they went in the same way that I was.</sentence><sentence id="1490">Believe me, you know, if I'm today alive, I don't have a heart attack this time, oh, I was very, very strong.</sentence><sentence id="1491">So when I come in I give him this knife.</sentence><sentence id="1492">I say to myself, "If I can do that, I can do something else."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1504">Q: I thought you said there was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> up at the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> also.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1506">A: Yes, yes, yes.</sentence><sentence id="1507">So I was there and so, you know, they have some peoples in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, but "(c) Kolonia Rozyezka 1 they have family in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> and they was young peoples, and they ask me if I want to bring them to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1508">And I say, "Look, I can't go."</sentence><sentence id="1509">So I go with this peoples.</sentence><sentence id="1510">They pay me but it doesn't pay very much.</sentence><sentence id="1511">They pay me just, you know, they pay me just a dinner or something like just for survival, but nothing special.</sentence><sentence id="1512">I make it because I can help.</sentence><sentence id="1513">But nothing special.</sentence><sentence id="1514">But to understand this, that the shooting and the killing there and my family was already dead.</sentence><sentence id="1515">As I say, "Stop, is enough, you have to run away from here."</sentence><sentence id="1516">So I go away and, you know, it was about 70 kilometers.</sentence><sentence id="1517">I went there and I was wandering two days without food, because when I come on the <span class="DLF">border</span>, was -- on one <span class="NPIP">side</span> was the Polish police, and on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span> was the German police and, "Halt, where are you going?" "</sentence><sentence id="1518">I go working to the <span class="DLF">farm</span> to keep the potatoes," because it was not me alone, but some Polish people did traveling, too.</sentence><sentence id="1519">So I listen to him.</sentence><sentence id="1520">I say, "I go for the potato."</sentence><sentence id="1521">So, "I go for the potato" and I was a young boy, so they let me pass.</sentence><sentence id="1522">And I have some couple money.</sentence><sentence id="1523">They took away the money but I don't care.</sentence><sentence id="1524">I went, and we have to pass a <span class="DLF">bridge</span> and I say, just two Germans gendarmes.</sentence><sentence id="1525">And they go just to me, and I say "Ay, ay, two gendarmes, it's finished with you."</sentence><sentence id="1526">But behind me was an old woman with a little boy and they stopped the woman, and I pass.</sentence><sentence id="1527">And I come on the <span class="DLF">road</span> and it was two gendarmes and they threw out a family from this <span class="BUILDING">house</span> -- maybe they want to take the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> -- and they threw out and they say "Hey, come here."</sentence><sentence id="1528">And they say, "help," and I help these people to put on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1529">And I remember it, was a bread, a big, big bread and the bread fell down and the hard side fell down.</sentence><sentence id="1530">So I take the hard side, I put it in my jacket and -- because eight days I don't eat no piece of bread -- and I help them, but this piece I hide for me.</sentence><sentence id="1531">And I sit on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> and they bring me to a little point because they turn and I have to go straight and I go straight.</sentence><sentence id="1532">And I go to the <span class="DLF">farm</span> and I ask, "Maybe you have <span class="NPIP">place</span> to sleep?"</sentence><sentence id="1533">So it's an old <span class="DLF">farm</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1534">They say, "Look, I have one <span class="NPIP">place</span> but here you can sleep -- there is a lady laying in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> -- if you want."</sentence><sentence id="1535">So the lady in one <span class="NPIP">side</span> and I was on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1536">The whole night I eat this bread.</sentence><sentence id="1537">The next day, in the morning, I say, "off."</sentence><sentence id="1538">I go to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and I was in the family.</sentence><sentence id="1539">But in certain time the peoples from this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, they need papers.</sentence><sentence id="1540">I don't have no papers and the paper was, you know, the fingerprint and this one is the Bloody Sunday.</sentence><sentence id="1541">The Gestapo come in, in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and they throw out -- everybody have to go out, and they start to control the papers.</sentence><sentence id="1542">I don't have no papers.</sentence><sentence id="1543">My brother doesn't have papers.</sentence><sentence id="1544">If he don't have no papers, so they have to start to hit the stakes over the head, over the back, all over.</sentence><sentence id="1545">Because if you don't have paper, you have to go on this <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1546">If you are going to see my brother -- he has here, on his lip, was open from hitting him.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1589">Q: This is the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>,</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1591">A: <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>, yes.</sentence><sentence id="1592">And they put us and they going to ask you for the bloody Sunday.</sentence><sentence id="1593">I'm going to tell you about this.</sentence><sentence id="1594">They put everyone on a <span class="DLF">field</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1595">I don't know, maybe a thousand peoples, on one <span class="DLF">field</span> and we stay there two nights, one night or two nights, I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="1596">And they put us in a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1597">They will call <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Pomiechowek</span> and this was a really 2 death camp.</sentence><sentence id="1598">And there we was, I think, six week.</sentence><sentence id="1599">I can't explain the trouble what they have there.</sentence><sentence id="1600">It was those <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, stone <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> and was so many peoples.</sentence><sentence id="1601">We have to lay down on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floors</span> like the herring, you know, in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tins</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1602">If one want to turn, everybody have to turn.</sentence><sentence id="1603">Soon it was dark until morning.</sentence><sentence id="1604">You have to stay there.</sentence><sentence id="1605">It was very, very hard, but one thing it was not German, I think, it was Germans but it was the SA.</sentence><sentence id="1606">Maybe you hear about SA -- Sturmabteilung"" -- that's when the Germans with war, the brown shirts and with the Hakenkreuz"(r).</sentence><sentence id="1607">It was very, very bad peoples.</sentence><sentence id="1608">There was, there was Volksdeutsche"", it was most of the Polacks, but there was maybe Germans, I don't know what kind.</sentence><sentence id="1609">It was very, very bad and they was very bad peoples.</sentence><sentence id="1610">They hit us.</sentence><sentence id="1611">We don't have no food.</sentence><sentence id="1612">And I can't explain what kind of trouble what -- I don't know how we survived there.</sentence><sentence id="1613">There was hundred and hundred of people and, you know, we couldn't have no <span class="INT_SPACE">washroom</span>, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1614">So they make a <span class="DLF">grave</span> in <span class="DLF">hole</span> with a stake and everybody, women, men all together, we have to go there, if we need to go.</sentence><sentence id="1615">And sometimes a passing German push in.</sentence><sentence id="1616">I can't explain.</sentence><sentence id="1617">And was always one, he pass in the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> and tell, "You stay up!"</sentence><sentence id="1618">When you stay up is okay.</sentence><sentence id="1619">When you kind of stay up so fast, so he have, "You sick.</sentence><sentence id="1620">Take out to kill."</sentence><sentence id="1621">And they shoot every day, every day, you hear the guns.</sentence><sentence id="1622">They shoot these people something terrible.</sentence><sentence id="1623">And my little brother, Erwin he was there, but he escaped.</sentence><sentence id="1624">And how I come out from there, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="1625">I don't know, I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="1626">I know once my brother told me I was sick.</sentence><sentence id="1627">I had typhus and all these people that have typhus they have to be killed.</sentence><sentence id="1628">And I remember one time I was laying on the <span class="NPIP">outside</span> to wait until they going to shoot me.</sentence><sentence id="1629">So I know once my brother, the oldest one, come and take me on his shoulder and put me in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1630">They run away and they pass, and we have to go, they send us back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1631">Before coming to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> to the pass the, the front, they make a big fire, and all these people have to pass this fire.</sentence><sentence id="1632">The other <span class="NPIP">side</span> there was the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, the free, but we have to pass this fire.</sentence><sentence id="1633">We have so many -- you feel it.</sentence><sentence id="1634">You pass on the people that first down.</sentence><sentence id="1635">They couldn't survive.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1681">Q: You went through the fire?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1683">A: Through the fire.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1685">Q: It was a big fire?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1687">A: Was a big fire and my brother, I don't remember, but my brother told me because we pass.</sentence><sentence id="1688">I know I have smell the burn, smell the burn.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1691">Q: So you had to walk through this fire to get to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1693">A: Walk the fire, pass the fire to go in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>, back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Warsaw ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1694">And when we arrived in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Warsaw ghetto</span>, I don't remember exactly what happened, but once I was "7 storm troopers (German) "S Swastika (German) deg ethnic German (German) 3 laying on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span>, and I was in a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> and they wash myself and they put me in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1695">And there was maybe one or two days and I start to cry, because they put somebody in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span> with me.</sentence><sentence id="1696">And so there was a nurse come in and she ask me, "Why you crying?"</sentence><sentence id="1697">So I say, "I don't know, they put somebody in maybe he have typhus.</sentence><sentence id="1698">I'm going to have too."</sentence><sentence id="1699">So she say, "What you think what are?"</sentence><sentence id="1700">and they let me there a couple days.</sentence><sentence id="1701">A couple days, maybe one week, and when I was already health more, so I went out and I remember it was just a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> come in with stones.</sentence><sentence id="1702">The men, they ask me, "Hey, you want to help me to put down the stones?"</sentence><sentence id="1703">I say, ""yes."</sentence><sentence id="1704">They give me 50 cent and I buy pickle, a sour pickle.</sentence><sentence id="1705">And I found my brother.</sentence><sentence id="1706">We don't have no <span class="NPIP">place</span> to go.</sentence><sentence id="1707">We don't have no <span class="NPIP">place</span> to sleep.</sentence><sentence id="1708">We don't have no money.</sentence><sentence id="1709">Absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1710">So my brother told me, ""What you going to do?"</sentence><sentence id="1711">So, you know, in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> in the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> there was the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">stoves</span> and they have in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">ovens</span>, they have the <span class="DLF">doors</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1712">There was like a cup and the <span class="BUILDING">houses</span> that was destroyed.</sentence><sentence id="1713">So we took that and we sold it.</sentence><sentence id="1714">We have some money.</sentence><sentence id="1715">We pay a guy -- and we go out from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> and we have just enough to pay to buy a bread, because we want to go back to the same <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> where my mother and my sister.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1742">Q: And this is <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1744">A: Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="1745">And we have just enough money to buy a bread, but from there we have to pass a <span class="DLF">bridge</span> to the <span class="BUILDING">station</span> and from the <span class="BUILDING">station</span> we have to take a little <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> to, I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="1746">And this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> a little bit closer to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1747">So we go to the, into the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1748">We have already tickets -- no.</sentence><sentence id="1749">There was -- we was waiting <span class="NPIP">outside</span> because the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> -- somebody come I don't know, it was a Polack, I don't remember, a woman or a man -- and she say, "Don't go in because they can recognize you, you a Jew and they going to send you back or they going to arrest you."</sentence><sentence id="1750">So I say, "But we want to go."</sentence><sentence id="1751">So he or she, I don't remember, "Give me your money.</sentence><sentence id="1752">I will go buy tickets."</sentence><sentence id="1753">So we give him the money and he buy tickets for us and we have the tickets.</sentence><sentence id="1754">We go in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1755">We sit on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and this <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> start to go.</sentence><sentence id="1756">So he's coming, the control man for the ticket, so he looks, "Are you Jews?</sentence><sentence id="1757">I going to call the Gestapo."</sentence><sentence id="1758">So I start to cry, "Why you going to call the Gestapo?</sentence><sentence id="1759">We don't do nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1760">We want to go." "</sentence><sentence id="1761">No, no, you Jews.</sentence><sentence id="1762">You don't have the right to go.</sentence><sentence id="1763">You don't have the right to be here."</sentence><sentence id="1764">So I say, "What can I do?"</sentence><sentence id="1765">So he say, "Pay me."</sentence><sentence id="1766">So I say, "What can I pay you?</sentence><sentence id="1767">We don't have no money.</sentence><sentence id="1768">We don't have nothing."</sentence><sentence id="1769">One thing my brother say, "Maybe you going to give him a gown."</sentence><sentence id="1770">I remember [had a gown for my sister, a nightgown.</sentence><sentence id="1771">So I tell him, "Look, I have a nightgown.</sentence><sentence id="1772">If you want to, I give you the nightgown."</sentence><sentence id="1773">He said, "yes."</sentence><sentence id="1774">I have to go to the end <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, take out the nightgown and give him the nightgown.</sentence><sentence id="1775">So, he let us go.</sentence><sentence id="1776">So we went a couple miles and we go down.</sentence><sentence id="1777">We don't have no money.</sentence><sentence id="1778">We don't have nothing to eat.</sentence><sentence id="1779">We have to live.</sentence><sentence id="1780">We have to do something.</sentence><sentence id="1781">So actually, you know what, we go here we go begging.</sentence><sentence id="1782">So I took to the <span class="BUILDING">house</span> and somebody give us some beets.</sentence><sentence id="1783">So we have <span class="ENV_FEATURES">beets</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1784">We eat the beets and we sleep <span class="NPIP">outside</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1785">And we stay and we go again, and they stay and we go again.</sentence><sentence id="1786">This time we walking again.</sentence><sentence id="1787">We want to go to this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> and it's very hard.</sentence><sentence id="1788">It's not so easy, So --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1834">Q: You're walking to this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1838">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1840">Q: How far is it?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1842">A: About 70 kilometers and we was running with the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, maybe 10 or 15 kilometers.</sentence><sentence id="1843">But there was somebody.</sentence><sentence id="1844">He make travel past the peoples.</sentence><sentence id="1845">So we ask him, maybe he want to travel, to help us to travel.</sentence><sentence id="1846">So he say, "Yes, but you have to pay me."</sentence><sentence id="1847">But we have nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1848">So I remember when I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> I receive a pair of boots from <span class="BUILDING">UNRRA</span>" or the Jewish Committee"! --</sentence><sentence id="1849">I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="1850">So I say, "You know, that I have boots.</sentence><sentence id="1851">I can give you -- you take my boots."</sentence><sentence id="1852">And we past there.</sentence><sentence id="1853">And we was together certain time and after they took us to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>, so they start there with the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1854">Exactly the same thing, you know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1868">Q: Now this Bloody Sunday in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>, going back a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="1869">Did this take place in a lot of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">towns</span> at the same time?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1872">A: I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="1873">I know it take place -- one second, I think it take in two or three <span class="NPIP">places</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span> and it was a couple kilometers was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, the same thing, the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="1874">That's the Bloody Sunday.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1878">Q: Is it unusual that you went from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> to a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> then back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1879">Is that unusual?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1882">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1884">Q: Because generally when the people leave the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> they leave for good, right?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1886">A: Yeah.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1888">Q: You were very resourceful.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1890">A: What?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1892">Q: You were very resourceful.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1894">A: What can I do?</sentence><sentence id="1895">I have to.</sentence><sentence id="1896">I can't help.</sentence><sentence id="1897">And then after when we was the last <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> the last time.</sentence><sentence id="1898">So, you know, the propaganda was from the German and they say, "Don't worry.</sentence><sentence id="1899">The oldest people, your old people, you're going to work."</sentence><sentence id="1900">This was the propaganda.</sentence><sentence id="1901">degdeg United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration 2!</sentence><sentence id="1902">American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee 5 "Took what you can, warm clothes most important.</sentence><sentence id="1903">Took it to a Jew and you're going to work, okay?</sentence><sentence id="1904">The youngest people, they are going to work.</sentence><sentence id="1905">The older people they're going to keep the children and the <span class="BUILDING">household</span>."</sentence><sentence id="1906">So this was the reason.</sentence><sentence id="1907">Most the Jewish people, they go, but nobody can imagine -- but when, you know, they going die it was already too late.</sentence><sentence id="1908">They're already there.</sentence><sentence id="1909">They couldn't help.</sentence><sentence id="1910">So first I know when they start to send tickets. "</sentence><sentence id="1911">This family, this family, this family."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1931">Q: I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="1932">Were you at this point?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1935">A: In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1936">Now, I told you <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span> was already liquidated.</sentence><sentence id="1937">It wasn't completely liquidated but is started.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1941">Q: What year do you think this was?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1943">A: This was 1941, 1942.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1945">Q: But was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Warsaw ghetto</span> wasn't liquidated that early, I don't think.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1947">A: They start, I think, but the uprising was in, I think --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1949">Q: "43?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1951">A: "43.</sentence><sentence id="1952">So they start -- first of all, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="52.233028" long="21.017">Warsaw</span>, there was a big <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1953">There was lots of people and there lots of Jews was working for the Germans and the <span class="BUILDING">factories</span>, like the tailors for the uniform.</sentence><sentence id="1954">And so this when they start already to evacuate.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="1959">Q: To evacuate?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="1961">A: And to evacuate it.</sentence><sentence id="1962">And first one -- the policy from the Germans they say, "Why do we have to kill them?</sentence><sentence id="1963">They are going to kill themselves."</sentence><sentence id="1964">And that's true.</sentence><sentence id="1965">The people starving on the <span class="DLF">streets</span>, no food.</sentence><sentence id="1966">In the wintertime the people was freezing completely, dead freezing, dead.</sentence><sentence id="1967">They have nothing.</sentence><sentence id="1968">So they don't care.</sentence><sentence id="1969">So they just to help so they evacuated to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Treblinka</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1970">And <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Treblinka</span>, soon they come in and the older people, the woman, the older men and children, they put them on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1971">The <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> come into the <span class="BUILDING">crematorium</span> to say, "You go to <span class="INT_SPACE">bath</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1972">You going to take a <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span>."</sentence><sentence id="1973">But the <span class="INT_SPACE">shower</span> is gas.</sentence><sentence id="1974">That's it.</sentence><sentence id="1975">And there in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span> they start to send people to get this family and this family and that family.</sentence><sentence id="1976">They have to be at this time and that time, and that time they have to be at the <span class="BUILDING">station</span>.</sentence><sentence id="1977">On the grand <span class="DLF">Platz</span>" was the place they have to be there.</sentence><sentence id="1978">At this time my mother and the younger brother and the two sisters -- my sisters receive the paper.</sentence><sentence id="1979">My brother and I were supposed to stay there, but -- and they took them back.</sentence><sentence id="1980">So after, ??</sentence><sentence id="1981">nlaza (German) 6 you know, he's coming, an officer and he say, "Who want to go to have <span class="NPIP">place</span>?</sentence><sentence id="1982">Who want to go?"</sentence><sentence id="1983">So, I say to my brother, "What they going to do here?"</sentence><sentence id="1984">The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> was -- this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> was three-quarter empty. "</sentence><sentence id="1985">What we going to do?</sentence><sentence id="1986">Come, we're going to work.</sentence><sentence id="1987">Come we're going, too."</sentence><sentence id="1988">So we going and this was when the family was together.</sentence><sentence id="1989">My mother, sister, my little brother was together until they send us to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and this took, I think, three or four days just traveling.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2020">Q: What was it like on that <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> ride?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2022">A: We was packed.</sentence><sentence id="2023">Peoples was crying, you know, packed.</sentence><sentence id="2024">No food, no water.</sentence><sentence id="2025">Absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="2026">But the one chance it was in, I think, in fall, so it doesn't was very hot.</sentence><sentence id="2027">So you don't feel this so thirsty like in summertime and that helped, a lot.</sentence><sentence id="2028">So we arrived, I remember we arrived in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2029">It was at night or very early in the morning, and when we go out from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> they start to beating and to shoot.</sentence><sentence id="2030">So I say to my brother, I say, "Come, we have to go fast so we don't be beat."</sentence><sentence id="2031">So we was all together and he is coming, the German, and they start, "Men, and women on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2042">Q: I'm sorry, may I stop you?</sentence><sentence id="2043">I want to hear a little bit more about the trip on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2044">It took several days.</sentence><sentence id="2045">Did you know where you were going?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2050">A: No, no.</sentence><sentence id="2051">We know we want to go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2052">And when we went in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, so, I think, I was young, but I think peoples in mind couldn't imagine this finish.</sentence><sentence id="2053">We go to <span class="NPIP">death</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2058">Q: Had you had any information on the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2060">A: No, we didn't have -- like I say nothing.</sentence><sentence id="2061">They say always, "Don't worry.</sentence><sentence id="2062">Everything be fine.</sentence><sentence id="2063">You go to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>."</sentence><sentence id="2064">But when we was on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> was blocked, nobody can open.</sentence><sentence id="2065">But now it was too late.</sentence><sentence id="2066">But for me, I don't know, I couldn't believe, could happen things like that.</sentence><sentence id="2067">So I say to myself, "They told us, we going to work, okay?</sentence><sentence id="2068">We're going to work."</sentence><sentence id="2069">But who couldn't believe from, we know.</sentence><sentence id="2070">Every day the German was a very polite people.</sentence><sentence id="2071">The German was very [unintelligible] people.</sentence><sentence id="2072">Who couldn't imagine.</sentence><sentence id="2073">They imagine and <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">kill machine</span> like that.</sentence><sentence id="2074">It's impossible.</sentence><sentence id="2075">But then we go to -- when we arrive in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and they separate men and women, children with women.</sentence><sentence id="2076">So I say, "Oh, this smell not good."</sentence><sentence id="2077">And coming Mengele(tm) and he come in and he start, "Men" -- all like the young men, like I and my brother, healthy, from the regular to the bigger -- so "right." "</sentence><sentence id="2078">Left" and my little brother have to go the women.</sentence><sentence id="2079">And like I say, I was feel like something wrong.</sentence><sentence id="2080">So we was there and we was the first of the first, because I say, always you have to be careful not to be beaten.</sentence><sentence id="2081">If not, they kill you with stakes, with pipes, with rubber, with all this thing?</sentence><sentence id="2082">So I he come and, you know, the German was like that.</sentence><sentence id="2083">He was tall.</sentence><sentence id="2084">He jumped between his legs and come in my side, and I was there with a friend - 3 Josef Mengele (1911-19782), German doctor and SS officer.</sentence><sentence id="2085">7 - my, my friend live today, is in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Toronto--</span> they lift him little bit and he started to look, start to -- it's too late.</sentence><sentence id="2086">They don't see him and we was together.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2115">Q: So you were able to have your little brother come with you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2117">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2119">Q: Now, how did you know this was Dr. Mengele?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2121">A: I recognize him after because he came to our <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2122">I saw him many time because when I was already in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, they make selection, you know, about selection.</sentence><sentence id="2123">Yeah, the one have to die.</sentence><sentence id="2124">The one have to go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2125">So we have to unclothed, take out the clothes and we have to pass like in <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> and the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> was -- it <span class="DLF">doors</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2126">There was two <span class="DLF">doors</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2127">One there was no the <span class="DLF">block</span>, the chief <span class="DLF">block</span> and they have to get the prisoners first in the second, so it was to the -- so we have to go out from one <span class="DLF">door</span> and down, and Mengele was there and we pass by him and he look at you, and the chief on the <span class="DLF">block</span>, you have -- a card -- you don't have no names.</sentence><sentence id="2128">We have just a number and he have the card, you know, and we pass.</sentence><sentence id="2129">So I know.</sentence><sentence id="2130">I see him many times and peoples out there, they know him before, "this one is Dr. Mengele," and so...</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2141">Q: So you got off the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and there was a lot of shouting?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2143">A: A lot of shouting and separation and crying and all kind of things.</sentence><sentence id="2144">And after you pull together and after we went on march to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and went into <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2145">From the <span class="BUILDING">station</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> we went to concentration.</sentence><sentence id="2146">The first thing that we saw, you know, they bring us just on the <span class="DLF">wires</span>, electrified wire, doubled wires, and we saw some people hanging on, so he say, "You see that?</sentence><sentence id="2147">In case somebody want to escape, he going to have exactly the same thing."</sentence><sentence id="2148">So they put us, you know -- first, there was <span class="NPIP">outside</span> many couple hours.</sentence><sentence id="2149">After we have to take off our clothes.</sentence><sentence id="2150">We went to the <span class="BUILDING">barber</span> to cut the hair completely, and <span class="INT_SPACE">showers</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2151">After the <span class="INT_SPACE">showers</span> we have to go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">room</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2152">And they make the numbers, and they made the numbers, you know, the numbers with little point and they, I don't know what with, a pen or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="2153">And they make the numbers.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2165">Q: Did it hurt?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2167">A: Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="2168">But a couple days later it was okay.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2171">Q: Did you still think you were going to <span class="BUILDING">work</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2173">A: To work?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2177">Q: Did you still think the reason you were going there was just to work?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2179">A: At this time, no.</sentence><sentence id="2180">At this time I thought I was finished.</sentence><sentence id="2181">This time I was finished and the peoples, you know, because it was -- already people was prisoners in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and this lL always say, "Don't think you go some <span class="NPIP">place</span> to work.</sentence><sentence id="2182">Once you can go, you see the <span class="DLF">chimney</span> there?"</sentence><sentence id="2183">We saw the <span class="DLF">chimney</span> -- the smell, the smell. "</sentence><sentence id="2184">This what I told you.</sentence><sentence id="2185">See the <span class="DLF">chimney</span>?</sentence><sentence id="2186">That's where the <span class="BUILDING">crematorium</span>."</sentence><sentence id="2187">The first time, I didn't know what he mean and he, "burn the people."</sentence><sentence id="2188">And so I ask, "Burn alive?"</sentence><sentence id="2189">And he said, "No, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="2190">First, all the people go in the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span> and from the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span> they go in there."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2203">Q: Now what <span class="NPIP">year</span> was that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2205">A: The what?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2207">Q: What year do you think this was?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2209">A: I don't know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2211">Q: Do you think this was about 19--</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2213">A: What <span class="NPIP">year</span>?</sentence><sentence id="2214">I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="2215">It was beginning "42, I think, beginning "42.</sentence><sentence id="2216">Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2221">Q: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="2222">So after you're showered then you're tattooed and you're with your brothers?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2225">A: The two brothers, yes.</sentence><sentence id="2226">And we still together.</sentence><sentence id="2227">No food, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="2228">And we have to go to the <span class="INT_SPACE">tailor room</span> with the numbers and they give us numbers to put on.</sentence><sentence id="2229">They give us the uniform.</sentence><sentence id="2230">Some uniform is too long, too short, and they took away the shoes.</sentence><sentence id="2231">They give you some wood shoes, and here was some stuff, tissue, and wood shoes, they are very, very hard to walk.</sentence><sentence id="2232">And one moment we lose my brother, the older one.</sentence><sentence id="2233">The little one is still with me.</sentence><sentence id="2234">And we was there in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> about three days, I don't remember exactly how long.</sentence><sentence id="2235">It always was the same.</sentence><sentence id="2236">We have to go to <span class="BUILDING">tailor</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2237">You have to put your number on your pant and on your jacket, and they took us to Buna I.G. Farben district.</sentence><sentence id="2238">And this was about three kilometers from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2239">So we go there.</sentence><sentence id="2240">It was, I think, at night.</sentence><sentence id="2241">I don't remember exactly because we have to pass the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2242">Maybe he doesn't want the people to see the prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="2243">I don't know exactly.</sentence><sentence id="2244">And there we go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="2245">We arrive there and we went to <span class="BUILDING">quarantine</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2267">Q: What was that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2269">A: Quarantine.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2273">Q: Why is that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2275">A: Quarantine.</sentence><sentence id="2276">They think maybe we are sick or we have some typhus or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="2277">So if somebody going to be sick, they have to kill all the peoples.</sentence><sentence id="2278">So we was there six week.</sentence><sentence id="2279">It was very, very bad.</sentence><sentence id="2280">Every day we have to make some exercise.</sentence><sentence id="2281">Every day it was the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="2282">The hanging and killing and beating and every day.</sentence><sentence id="2283">Sometimes, you know, they hang us with the hands in the back and they hang us just like that.</sentence><sentence id="2284">And, you know, who was the chief, it was the murder -- German murder.</sentence><sentence id="2285">No one else but the murderers.</sentence><sentence id="2286">But the Germans, they was maybe condemned to death.</sentence><sentence id="2287">The <span class="NPIP">place</span> to kill them, they put them in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span> and it was the chief of the Jew, from the Jewish Hiafilinger(tm).</sentence><sentence id="2288">And this was six weeks there, and after six week, we have to go to work.</sentence><sentence id="2289">They send us off and we went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> where all the peoples.</sentence><sentence id="2290">And maybe this time the whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was maybe six, 800 people.</sentence><sentence id="2291">And we when there just to build this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>, and we start to work there and we make the wire and the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, because every time when the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was ready, they was coming always new prisoners from all the <span class="COUNTRY">countries</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2292">From <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, from all over, all over.</sentence><sentence id="2293">And then in the end, I think there was about 15 or 18,000 prisoners there in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2294">And there was a, maybe you read about the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">LG</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2295"><span class="BUILDING">Farben industry</span>, and they have a <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2296">They make all for the war.</sentence><sentence id="2297">They make ammunition.</sentence><sentence id="2298">They make even gasoline for the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">planes</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2323">Q: Wasn't this a synthetic rubber plant?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2325">A: It was a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">plant</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2327">Q: For rubber?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2329">A: What?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2331">Q: For rubber?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2333">A: No you take -- some peoples was working you know in the <span class="DLF">coal mine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2334">So from the coals, they take out and make the gasoline and they make all the things, and we build it all together.</sentence><sentence id="2335">And it was exactly the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="2336">And after, they bring over there maybe, you know -- in the end it was in this I.G. Farben maybe one million people was working there.</sentence><sentence id="2337">All kind of nationality you can imagine.</sentence><sentence id="2338">Even the war prisoners from Americans, English peoples, French peoples, all of the soldiers that was taking --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2345">Q: How long did it take you to do this construction, do you remember?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2347">4 Prisoner (German) 0</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2348">A: We work always.</sentence><sentence id="2349">The construction take about two, three years to build up everything, that the kind of work.</sentence><sentence id="2350">And it was very, very hard.</sentence><sentence id="2351">Every day we lose lots and lots of peoples dying there, by working very hard job.</sentence><sentence id="2352">Very hard labor -- very hard job.</sentence><sentence id="2353">You have to stay up about five o'clock in the morning and it was <span class="DLF">Appellplatz</span>"", cold winter.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2360">Q: Tell me a little bit about the Appell"deg?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2362">A: It was a very, very big <span class="NPIP">place</span> and there was the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>, and in each <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> was the -- depends, 100, 150 men and we have to go up, you know, in the morning.</sentence><sentence id="2363">Sometimes they give you a little bit of coffee, water, and you have to go to the Appell.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2366">Q: What time was this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2368">A: They count so many, so many.</sentence><sentence id="2369">They have to.</sentence><sentence id="2370">They know exactly how many peoples.</sentence><sentence id="2371">And it was a <span class="DLF">block</span> -- block one to 53.</sentence><sentence id="2372">I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="2373">And each <span class="DLF">block</span> you have so many, so many peoples, and so we have to stay to five and they count every <span class="DLF">block</span> in the morning, so much and so many, and they look on the list.</sentence><sentence id="2374">If exactly number people what there are, even dead.</sentence><sentence id="2375">Even somebody die, we have to take him out, you know, to -- he count like prisoner.</sentence><sentence id="2376">It was very hard in the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="2377">I was -- you know first, I don't understand German at this time and they talk always German.</sentence><sentence id="2378">And like soldiers, so in the morning when the German pass, so you know, they give orders the "Miitzen ab!""" --</sentence><sentence id="2379">that mean take off your.</sentence><sentence id="2380">And first of all, you have to be straight out, it was two words, it was very hard to understand for me, "richtet euch!"**</sentence><sentence id="2381">You have to be, stay nicely, and you -- after you say, you can stay.</sentence><sentence id="2382">Just like that and this -- I was mixing up.</sentence><sentence id="2383">I make always upside down.</sentence><sentence id="2384">So you can imagine.</sentence><sentence id="2385">They beat me so much until in the end I understand already what they mean.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2404">Q: Why was the Appell so awful?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2406">A: The what?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2408">Q: Why was role call so --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2410">A: Well, you know to take respect for the SS.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2412">Q: But why did people think this was such a terrible thing?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2414">A: They was the rules.</sentence><sentence id="2415">Like you say, because Jews don't have right to live.</sentence><sentence id="2416">The all day, you &gt; <span class="DLF">roll call grounds</span> (German) 6 roll call (German).</sentence><sentence id="2417">deg7 Hats off! (</sentence><sentence id="2418">German) deg8 Straighten up! (</sentence><sentence id="2419">German) 1 listen, you hear, just what; "Thr verfluchte Jude," dirty Jew, you Christus, you murder," and all kind of things.</sentence><sentence id="2420">I can't remember all the things, but in the end they say always, you don't hear about, we was used to that.</sentence><sentence id="2421">Okay.</sentence><sentence id="2422">You talk because maybe in an hour they going to shoot us.</sentence><sentence id="2423">Maybe in an hour we going to be dead.</sentence><sentence id="2424">So we don't care about that.</sentence><sentence id="2425">We never, never, never one minute never think about survive.</sentence><sentence id="2426">And my, my policy, and I say always, "I have to do all mine better.</sentence><sentence id="2427">I have to try to survive."</sentence><sentence id="2428">And we was this struggling there was until January 18, January 1945 and 18 and 17, January, so we start already, we listen already, you know, the bombardment.</sentence><sentence id="2429">So we say you, "Oh, oh, something's wrong."</sentence><sentence id="2430">and before you -- yes -- before you know, it was already alarm, fleet alarm the bomb, the American flyers coming and the Russian coming at night, American day.</sentence><sentence id="2431">And was all day, you know, they destroy completely, the I.G. Farben.</sentence><sentence id="2432">But the <span class="BUILDING">crematorium</span> and the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>, they never destroy because Churchill" say this one is not a military object.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2455">Q: Let me see, how we are doing on tape?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2457">A: The what.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2459">Q: I have to check on the tape.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2461">A: So maybe I don't have to say that.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2463">Q: No, no that's okay.</sentence><sentence id="2464">Let's get back to the <span class="BUILDING">building</span> part.</sentence><sentence id="2465">Do you remember how you felt about the work you were doing?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2469">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="2470">We have all kind of work.</sentence><sentence id="2471">First one was the old <span class="BUILDING">building</span> was in concrete, okay.</sentence><sentence id="2472">And I remember it was, <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span> come in with stones and sand because is not like today with the big <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trucks</span> with the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">mixer</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2473">We have to make ourselves, so my job was to put on the wagon stones.</sentence><sentence id="2474">So much, so much stones, and so much, so much sand and there was two of them.</sentence><sentence id="2475">We have to push the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> to the machine.</sentence><sentence id="2476">We have to turn the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">machine</span> and to put the stones with the sand in a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">mixer</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2477">Not a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">mixer</span>, but it was in back in big box and the guy what was working the machine was a German guy.</sentence><sentence id="2478">He put the cement and he lift this in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">machine</span> and they mix it.</sentence><sentence id="2479">On the side was again two peoples like we was and the cement, the concrete fall in and we have to go with them to the <span class="BUILDING">building</span> to the builders that build and -- to put like today, you know, the concrete fall down and they make it.</sentence><sentence id="2480">It was a very, very hard job.</sentence><sentence id="2481">This was my job, my job, and we have to go fast and sometimes the cement, they use very much cement and sometimes cement is coming, you &gt; you damn Jew (German) * Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965); British statesman and author who served as Prime Minister during the Second World War.</sentence><sentence id="2482">2 know, with <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2483">The same thing, except they coming at night at this time.</sentence><sentence id="2484">So, what do we hear, "Juden raus*!,"</sentence><sentence id="2485">where we have to out from the <span class="DLF">block</span> and five they count so much, so much, and we have to go to take out the cement from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, from the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2486">And I was, this time I was maybe, I don't remember, maybe 16 years, 15, 16 years and you have to, you know, put on your shoulder in back of cement sack, and it was over 100 pounds.</sentence><sentence id="2487">And you have to run with that and sometimes when the Germans when the SS, they <span class="NPIP">outside</span> they start, "schnell, schnell, schnell*"."</sentence><sentence id="2488">They want to go <span class="BUILDING">home</span> so they put two and you can't run, so they hit us with the rifles.</sentence><sentence id="2489">And one German, he hit many, many times and he smashed my kidney, and they have to take out the kidney.</sentence><sentence id="2490">So I have just one kidney.</sentence><sentence id="2491">But what can you do?</sentence><sentence id="2492">I couldn't say nothing because if somebody doesn't listen, if somebody fall down with -- so they call "Hey, take him."</sentence><sentence id="2493">If not, if he doesn't want to, so he shoot him on the spot.</sentence><sentence id="2494">You have them carried to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> dead.</sentence><sentence id="2495">So what -- I couldn't do nothing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2526">Q: This is probably a strange question, but when they took out your kidney, was there any relief that you were in a <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> for a few days?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2528">A: But, no the kidney was removed after the war.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2530">Q: Oh.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2532">A: But, you know, I was suffering from the kidney in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, but I was scared to go to the doctor at the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because they send me to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2533">But this one was in the beginning.</sentence><sentence id="2534">But after -- so when you are already an old prisoner, you know a little bit the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">tules</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2535">So I couldn't manage to not go to this <span class="BUILDING">work</span> first of all.</sentence><sentence id="2536">Second one, you know, the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was already built and the <span class="BUILDING">buildings</span> was already built so, you know, we don't make any cement.</sentence><sentence id="2537">But in this time they start to make like professionals work.</sentence><sentence id="2538">Electricians, carpenters, painting, because all everything have to be paint and you -- they make some peoples -- they have to work for the -- to put on the Skelett(r), you know, for the <span class="BUILDING">building</span> that's from the ironwork, you know, the big things.</sentence><sentence id="2539">So, you know, it was very, very hard, but we don't have to.</sentence><sentence id="2540">We don't have to carry the cement, all this thing and first of all, and second, I was already an old prisoner so I know this rule.</sentence><sentence id="2541">So we can manage, you know, to not to work so hard.</sentence><sentence id="2542">So I manage to be an electrician.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2554">Q: Okay.</sentence><sentence id="2555">I have got to stop you because I think we're out of tape.</sentence><sentence id="2556">We'll pick up when you become an electrician.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="2560">3!</sentence><sentence id="2561">Jews, out! (</sentence><sentence id="2562">German) *&gt;&gt; quickly!</sentence><sentence id="2563">hurry! (</sentence><sentence id="2564">German) 33 framework (German) 3 4 Tape #3</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2572">Q: When we stopped we were talking about your work --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2574">A: Yeah, by the cement.</sentence><sentence id="2575">When I went it was already a longer, little bit longer then <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2576">So we start to know the rules first of all.</sentence><sentence id="2577">Second one, when I was 79,000 but at this time, after -- first of all, when the <span class="BUILDING">building</span> was already finished.</sentence><sentence id="2578">We was--</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2584">Q: Now which <span class="BUILDING">building</span> was this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2586">A: Any kind of <span class="BUILDING">building</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2587">There was many <span class="BUILDING">buildings</span> and they start to bring in from the east like civil peoples. [</sentence><sentence id="2588">Technical conversation] So -- and this time, this was maybe two years after, maybe, they start to bring in all kind of peoples Ostarbeiter**.</sentence><sentence id="2589">That mean the people from east, like the French workers from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, civilian workers.</sentence><sentence id="2590">They was going in freiwillig(r)".</sentence><sentence id="2591">That mean they go for themselves because they make big propaganda "Come to work for <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2592">You going to be fine.</sentence><sentence id="2593">You going to be good."</sentence><sentence id="2594">And the same thing was from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">France</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, from the Russian, from <span class="COUNTRY">Ukraine</span>, from all over, all over Europe and this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> works and this Buna I.G. Farben industry they make was at least one million of workers.</sentence><sentence id="2595">We was in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span> already, I don't know exactly, maybe 12 or 15,000, but you have and -- after this coming all the prisoners from war, from the English people, the American soldiers, the French sol-- you know they -- what was the prisoner from the war.</sentence><sentence id="2596">There was -- they have on the back marked "py prisoner of war.</sentence><sentence id="2597">There was two there so, you know, this work, it was already -- I don't want to easy, but it was a little bit easy.</sentence><sentence id="2598">And at this time I was already an old prisoner so I know the rules.</sentence><sentence id="2599">So I don't want to work.</sentence><sentence id="2600">It's too hard and I think sometimes in my mind I say myself, "The world have to finish once.</sentence><sentence id="2601">Maybe, we going to be free or maybe we going to be dead."</sentence><sentence id="2602">So I say, "I have to try to survive long as I can so I try not to work too much."</sentence><sentence id="2603">And I become in a <span class="BUILDING">Kommando</span>"".</sentence><sentence id="2604">A Kommando, that mean every prisoner was to the Kommando, and Kommando does what kind of work?</sentence><sentence id="2605">Some people was electricians, painters, was builders, was carpenters and I was younger this time, so I don't have no trade.</sentence><sentence id="2606">So I have a Kapo*", you know, the Kapo.</sentence><sentence id="2607">That mean it was he organize, not organize but he take care on a certain group of people for the work, like a manager for work.</sentence><sentence id="2608">So I ask him, "Maybe you want to take me to your job," because it was not so hard.</sentence><sentence id="2609">4 eastern worker (German); forced laborer from <span class="REGION">Eastern Europe</span>. *</sentence><sentence id="2610">&gt; Voluntarily (German) *deg In a later conversation the interviewee clarified that he had meant to say "PW." *</sentence><sentence id="2611">7 commando (German) 58 Forman (colloquial German); term used for inmates appointed by the SS to head a labor Kommando of prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="2612">5 So I was a Kommando 120 -- 800 -- 28.</sentence><sentence id="2613">I was electric Kommando specialist, you know, the work was already little bit easy.</sentence><sentence id="2614">First off all, I don't have to carry nothing but, you know, sometimes we have a pliers.</sentence><sentence id="2615">Sometimes, you have a case and box with tools or little wire or little cable, and even when we have to pull cables there was a special Kommando, Kommando nine and they pull the cables, and there was that Kommando.</sentence><sentence id="2616">There the peoples not survive no longer than four, five weeks.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2651">Q: Why was that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2653">A: Because it was very hard.</sentence><sentence id="2654">First, they were big cable and it was hard and they were very big.</sentence><sentence id="2655">And the Kapo was very bad man.</sentence><sentence id="2656">He was from <span class="COUNTRY">Austria</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2657">But I never want to go.</sentence><sentence id="2658">I take care always not to fall in, in this Kommando because that finished.</sentence><sentence id="2659">So I in was <span class="BUILDING">Kommando 128</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2660">It was very -- not easy, but it was easy.</sentence><sentence id="2661">And one day the chief of -- the German chief come in and I was working with two Polish guys.</sentence><sentence id="2662">They was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span> too.</sentence><sentence id="2663">But they was okay.</sentence><sentence id="2664">So I was the helper.</sentence><sentence id="2665">I have to help them.</sentence><sentence id="2666">I was carry tools.</sentence><sentence id="2667">I was carry the box and they was my chiefs, my managers.</sentence><sentence id="2668">So the chief come in and say "Look, you have to go in this, this <span class="NPIP">place</span>, you have to connect the cable to 4000 volt."</sentence><sentence id="2669">I remember very good.</sentence><sentence id="2670">So it was in, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Tadek</span> and we have to go there.</sentence><sentence id="2671">And it was a big cable and there was a box, you know, for the fuses and it was the long fuse.</sentence><sentence id="2672">And on the top there was power and on the end there was no power, because you have to put the fuse and you have to connect this cable.</sentence><sentence id="2673">So we put the cable in this box and he say, ""You know, what?</sentence><sentence id="2674">I'm going to push him.</sentence><sentence id="2675">You push in and you make the screws and we'll be okay."</sentence><sentence id="2676">And so, he was stronger for me, and after the cable I screw a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="2677">Not so much because I was not so strong like him.</sentence><sentence id="2678">So he say, "You know what?</sentence><sentence id="2679">Now, you come lift little bit the cable.</sentence><sentence id="2680">I'm going to screw."</sentence><sentence id="2681">So I have -- the box was big -- I have my face always in the box and I keep this cable.</sentence><sentence id="2682">And he took a key, a metal key and turned the nuts, you know, to close it very fast.</sentence><sentence id="2683">And in the middle it turned and placed from down to up and from up to down, and it make a short and there was a flame and I have it all, everything in my face.</sentence><sentence id="2684">The whole face was burned and he have, you know, split his hand and I think I was burning, so I wipe up and I take out all this meat, all the skin to the bones.</sentence><sentence id="2685">It was, first of all, it was <span class="NPIP">hell</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2686">So I look at him.</sentence><sentence id="2687">So I say, "Tell me, what you do?"</sentence><sentence id="2688">When he saw me he say, "We have to go some <span class="NPIP">place</span>."</sentence><sentence id="2689">So we run to the <span class="BUILDING">commanders place</span> where the SS was there and we arrive there.</sentence><sentence id="2690">So, I remember the SS, they say, "Was hast du -- Icek, was hast du gemacht?"</sentence><sentence id="2691">What you are doing?</sentence><sentence id="2692">So I say I was in -- meantime there was no power in the center there.</sentence><sentence id="2693">So, they call to the -- we have in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Krankenbau</span>" and like a little <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, * "What have you -- Icek, what have you done?" (</sentence><sentence id="2694">German) *deg Infirmery (German) 6 and they say for me, "He was wounded -- he was burned.</sentence><sentence id="2695">You have to come and take him."</sentence><sentence id="2696">Because I can't see any more, nothing.</sentence><sentence id="2697">So -- but the SS still, they give me cigarette, maybe they have pity for me, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="2698">And it is coming with the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2699">Put me ona <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span> I went to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> and I was there.</sentence><sentence id="2700">So I say -- it was a doctor, it was Polack -- I say "Look, I hope I can go out tomorrow, day after tomorrow."</sentence><sentence id="2701">So he say, "You crazy?Even in 15 days, you can't go out."</sentence><sentence id="2702">And, you know, every day the doctor come and take out the dry skin.</sentence><sentence id="2703">But I was so bad burned so they have to put me some <span class="NPIP">place</span> because Mengele come in every time to looking after, and when he find me, he send me to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span> because I was very sick.</sentence><sentence id="2704">So they hide me at certain time.</sentence><sentence id="2705">I was covered with all kind of things -- he doesn't see me.</sentence><sentence id="2706">And I was in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> for maybe six weeks.</sentence><sentence id="2707">After six weeks I come out and we start to work again.</sentence><sentence id="2708">So no more electrician.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2768">Q: So they let you stay in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> six weeks and not many people they let stay six --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2770">A: Oh, no, oh, no.</sentence><sentence id="2771">Because every day, every day you have peoples coming in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">truck</span> and take them out and they send them to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2774">Q: And these doctors were nice and they hid you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2776">A: He didn't see me.</sentence><sentence id="2777">I don't know how they manage it.</sentence><sentence id="2778">But they -- because of, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="2779">Maybe they like me.</sentence><sentence id="2780">Maybe I was lucky.</sentence><sentence id="2781">And it was a very nice man.</sentence><sentence id="2782">The doctor was very nice.</sentence><sentence id="2783">He clean it every day.</sentence><sentence id="2784">He take out the dry skin.</sentence><sentence id="2785">It hurt very much.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2796">Q: Now where was your brother at this point?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2798">A: My brother, he was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2799">They take him away to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2802">Q: Did he start at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> with you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2804">A: He start at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> with me and this I want to see before my accident.</sentence><sentence id="2805">The burn accident.</sentence><sentence id="2806">The transport from the same <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> when I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Plonsk</span> is coming, the next <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2807">It was my oldest brother come in and he took the <span class="NPIP">place</span>, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> took the <span class="NPIP">place</span> from us in the quarantine.</sentence><sentence id="2808">And in quarantine they find out one or two, they have typhus, and they take the whole <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">transport</span> and they send them to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2809">And they went -- most of them, 80 or 90 percent from this -- they went to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2810">And my brother was between them.</sentence><sentence id="2811">So we have to -- you know, in column -- we was always -- all this was about four or five o'clock afternoon.</sentence><sentence id="2812">When the war was finished, the day war was finished, we have to walk to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2813">We never walked when it was dark, not in the morning, not at night.</sentence><sentence id="2814">We 7 have to come into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> when it was lights.</sentence><sentence id="2815">So when I come -- when my Kommando come to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, so I saw the whole column from my brother and he saw me.</sentence><sentence id="2816">He say me, he say me "Goodbye.</sentence><sentence id="2817">We doesn't see you -- We don't see us anymore."</sentence><sentence id="2818">And this was the end.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2834">Q: Your brother waved goodbye?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2836">A: And my little brother was already in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2837">He find, maybe next day he find his clothes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2840">Q: Now, when you were <span class="BUILDING">building</span> over at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>, what were you <span class="BUILDING">building</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2842">A: Blocks, <span class="BUILDING">buildings</span>, all kind of <span class="BUILDING">buildings</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2843">Because like I say --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2846">Q: Can you just begin that thought with, when we got to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> we were <span class="BUILDING">building</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2848">A: First of all, we building the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because it was not <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2849">It was just empty, not empty <span class="NPIP">places</span>, just a couple <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2850">It was not the wires, the electrified wires.</sentence><sentence id="2851">We have to build that.</sentence><sentence id="2852">We put it --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2858">Q: The <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2860">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2862">Q: Your own <span class="BUILDING">housing</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2864">A: We have to make that.</sentence><sentence id="2865">And we made it because -- first of all, we make the <span class="DLF">holes</span> to put the Beton*", you know, around and after we have to pull the wires the, you know -- how do you call -- what they make on the <span class="BUILDING">prisons</span>, the wires.</sentence><sentence id="2866">You can't pass there, the <span class="DLF">wires</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2867">And after they have the wires electrify with -- I think, 220 volts around, and something we have to put on this one.</sentence><sentence id="2868">We have to put <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> because every time, every time there was newcomers, newcomers like from all kinds of Jews.</sentence><sentence id="2869">Most, they coming from all over from <span class="COUNTRY">Greece</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">France</span>, from all over, all over, all over, and we have to build a <span class="NPIP">place</span> for them.</sentence><sentence id="2870">So this was the <span class="BUILDING">building</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2871">After, when the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was built, so we went in certain group.</sentence><sentence id="2872">Went out to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> -- work -- we start exactly the same thing to build it.</sentence><sentence id="2873">Carpenters to prepare to make the things for, to make the Beton, the concrete, and some people like electricians to build all this <span class="BUILDING">building</span>.</sentence><sentence id="2874">And we have the masters, the masters -- the chiefs, they was Germans.</sentence><sentence id="2875">Germans engineers, Germans architect, all the Germans was -- and we was just, we made just the dirty work, the hard work.</sentence><sentence id="2876">4!</sentence><sentence id="2877">concrete (German) 8</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2892">Q: So you build your part of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2894">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2896">Q: And then after all this was built, did you stay at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2898">A: I stay always at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>, yes.</sentence><sentence id="2899">Until the end.</sentence><sentence id="2900">Until the 18th of January, 1945.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2904">Q: Because you were there at the beginning, did you have a good sense of the layout of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and how everything was organized?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2906">A: Layout of the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, no.</sentence><sentence id="2907">But one thing we know, we don't going to survive there.</sentence><sentence id="2908">They have to -- first of all, you know, when you fall sick, was finished.</sentence><sentence id="2909">And they have to every day, every time, they have to kill in certain number from this prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="2910">There was this policy, the German policy.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2916">Q: Did you work in the German industry as well?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2918">A: The whole <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was German industry.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2920">Q: But in the -- did you work in the <span class="DLF">coal mines</span>?</sentence><sentence id="2921">Did you work in the munitions?</sentence><sentence id="2922">Did you work in the rubber making?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2926">A: We make, yes.</sentence><sentence id="2927">I was working there and in the industry because it was our job.</sentence><sentence id="2928">Like I say, I was working like electrician and we always have to be ready, because we make sometimes, you know, they have some trouble with the electricity.</sentence><sentence id="2929">There was the, you know, how can I explain you?</sentence><sentence id="2930">It was in <span class="BUILDING">building 700</span>, and this 700 they make the gasoline for the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">planes</span> and there was a roll, and under this it was like a carpet, long carpet.</sentence><sentence id="2931">It was rolling and over there they put some, not coal, but cox.</sentence><sentence id="2932">You know what cox?</sentence><sentence id="2933">Cox is coal.</sentence><sentence id="2934">You take out the coal -- you take out the gas from them and from them they took out, they make gasoline and this have to run the whole day.</sentence><sentence id="2935">You put it in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">machine</span> to take out the stuff, and we have to always take care of that, to repair.</sentence><sentence id="2936">Sometimes it was missing.</sentence><sentence id="2937">Sometimes it doesn't work.</sentence><sentence id="2938">Sometimes it was a fuse was burned up or something like that, and we have to be always there.</sentence><sentence id="2939">They run 24 hours a day.</sentence><sentence id="2940">So this one is the job I was working there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2956">Q: How long were you in that <span class="BUILDING">job</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2960">A: This was maybe about two years.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2962">Q: How many workers were over there?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2964">A: In this whole <span class="BUILDING">company</span>, they all I.G. Farben industry, was about, I can't lie to you, about a million something, a million people.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2966">Q: In the part where you were working?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2968">A: The part I was working was about, maybe 35 peoples.</sentence><sentence id="2969">Just my Kommando for me.</sentence><sentence id="2970">This was just the prisoners.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2974">Q: Were there women working at <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2976">A: No, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="2977">There was women, yes.</sentence><sentence id="2978">But there was no prisoners with us.</sentence><sentence id="2979">There was the civil workers, the Ost" workers from east, from east, from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, from <span class="COUNTRY">Ukraine</span>, from Russian, and sometimes there was even the prisoners from the war, from American prisoners, English prisoners, Australian prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="2980">They all take part in the war.</sentence><sentence id="2981">They was there in this I.G. Farben industry.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2988">Q: And you're calling all these prisoners of war?</sentence><sentence id="2989">These civilian workers, even though they were prisoners of war?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2992">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="2994">Q: And how was this organized?</sentence><sentence id="2995">You did certain job and they did certain jobs?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="2998">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="2999">We have -- first of all, we don't have no right to speak with any kind of civil workman.</sentence><sentence id="3000">When is a German we have like chief German, German chiefs, like architects, like engineers.</sentence><sentence id="3001">When these spoke there was a Kapo, they take care of us.</sentence><sentence id="3002">So he was talking with him and he give us orders, but personal.</sentence><sentence id="3003">I don't have no right to talk with any kind of civil worker, any kind of civil business.</sentence><sentence id="3004">Nothing.</sentence><sentence id="3005">If they catch me, they hang us, you know.</sentence><sentence id="3006">We have every day, every day there was before supper, supper what we have.</sentence><sentence id="3007">We come in, and we saw already the thing was made and today they going to hang one or three or five or something.</sentence><sentence id="3008">I remember, there was one bombardment and there was a young man -- I don't remember how old he was -- He eat his piece of bread that he receive for breakfast, and the German SS take them and they put him in <span class="BUILDING">jail</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3009">They make a <span class="BUILDING">jail</span>, a <span class="DLF">hole</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3010">They put him in <span class="BUILDING">jail</span> and the next day they hang him, and because they say he was stealing bread.</sentence><sentence id="3011">And (r) East (German) 0 time from the bombardment was not good, and I remember young man was maybe 17, 18-years-old, he begging them officers -- Obersturmbannfihrer -- and they begging him, they kiss his boot, "Please, it's not true, I don't do nothing."</sentence><sentence id="3012">He doesn't help, absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="3013">They put him on -- they put his cut on his neck and he poor guy, he couldn't die.</sentence><sentence id="3014">There was a guy -- a Rackers(tm), terrible bitch an German, took his feet and pull him so down to die fast.</sentence><sentence id="3015">And this one was the order for the day was, maybe every day, every second day.</sentence><sentence id="3016">One day we coming up, we coming to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> after the work and they saw already, in each <span class="NPIP">place</span> from the <span class="DLF">Appellplatz</span> was the German with the rifle, with the machine gun, and we say, "Oh, oh, something happen."</sentence><sentence id="3017">And three young boys was hanging because he say they want to escape from the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3018">That wasn't true and they hang him.</sentence><sentence id="3019">So I remember one scream, "Kopf hoch, Kamerad!"* --</sentence><sentence id="3020">I'm sorry..."</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3045">Q: Take your time.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3047">A: I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="3048">He say, "Kopf hoch.</sentence><sentence id="3049"><span class="BUILDING">Kamerad</span>!</sentence><sentence id="3050">Wir die letzten" -- he say, "up his head" -- "we are the last one."</sentence><sentence id="3051">And the last one he say, "Leben die Freiheit!""" "</sentence><sentence id="3052">long life and liberty."</sentence><sentence id="3053">They hang three young peoples for what?</sentence><sentence id="3054">Did exactly the same thing, pull them by the legs because they couldn't die.</sentence><sentence id="3055">And sometimes even to die, even to hang, you have to know how to hang.</sentence><sentence id="3056">And sometimes, you know, you have to -- they think, you know, they have to put it here just to break the neck.</sentence><sentence id="3057">But he just put on the thing and put here.</sentence><sentence id="3058">This guy don't know how the neck, so he pull on the legs to die.</sentence><sentence id="3059">How did they do that?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3073">Q: What were you thinking as all of this is happening?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3075">A: Every day, every day, every day was the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="3076">Every day we saw it and sometimes, some days, we talking about it and I have it before my eyes.</sentence><sentence id="3077">I saw the young boys, and after we have to march, you know.</sentence><sentence id="3078">You know was about 12 or 15,000 peoples, I don't remember.</sentence><sentence id="3079">We have to pass by them and have to look on them, how they hang dead.</sentence><sentence id="3080">Something terrible.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3087">Q: Did you feel terribly isolated?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3089">A: You see in a moment there -- sometimes I wake up at night, you see, 50 years after and I say, it was impossible.</sentence><sentence id="3090">Is <span class="NPIP">dream</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3091">I dream about that, but it's impossible that things happen in the 20th century and peoples, like <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, they are cultivated people.</sentence><sentence id="3092">So organized people doing things like that.</sentence><sentence id="3093">It is something impossible.</sentence><sentence id="3094">When the-- you know, * SS Technical Sergeant Bernhard Rackers " Head high, comerade! (</sentence><sentence id="3095">German) * Head high, comerade!</sentence><sentence id="3096">We are the last. (</sentence><sentence id="3097">German) 4(c) Long live liberty! (</sentence><sentence id="3098">German) 1 liquidated the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">ghetto</span> there was the German to go to take out the peoples, took the little children, little babies by their feet and they smash their heads on the <span class="DLF">wall</span> and -- and the government doesn't know, the United States government don't know, the government from <span class="COUNTRY">England</span> doesn't know -- they know everything but nobody lift their little finger, because maybe, because they are Jews, but maybe -- they don't kill not just Jews.</sentence><sentence id="3099">They have Christian too.</sentence><sentence id="3100">And nobody, nobody lift.</sentence><sentence id="3101">Nobody say one word because, you know, and God, where was God?</sentence><sentence id="3102">God.</sentence><sentence id="3103">And the Germans have this belt was marked God, God is with us.</sentence><sentence id="3104">The Germans not with us.</sentence><sentence id="3105">They kill people.</sentence><sentence id="3106">They kill rabbis.</sentence><sentence id="3107">They kill priests.</sentence><sentence id="3108">They kill everybody.</sentence><sentence id="3109">Where was <span class="NPIP">God</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3135">Q: Where did you think God was at the time?</sentence><sentence id="3136">Did you think there was a God?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3139">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="3140">Even not today, no.</sentence><sentence id="3141">Look at what happened.</sentence><sentence id="3142">That still, but still is not maybe a Holocaust, but they kill.</sentence><sentence id="3143">They still kill all those people.</sentence><sentence id="3144">Why?</sentence><sentence id="3145">Why did they kill?</sentence><sentence id="3146">Okay.</sentence><sentence id="3147">I going to say they kill the oldest people, maybe they going to do something, but the young babies, the old men -- I had an uncle he was over 100 years.</sentence><sentence id="3148">They kill him.</sentence><sentence id="3149">Why?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3161">Q: Do you remember if you prayed at all when you were in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>?</sentence><sentence id="3162">Did you pray?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3165">A: Did I pray?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3167">Q: Did you pray?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3169">A: Pray to who?</sentence><sentence id="3170">No, no.</sentence><sentence id="3171">Even not today, no!</sentence><sentence id="3172">Because to who I going to pray?</sentence><sentence id="3173">To kill me a little bit faster?</sentence><sentence id="3174">I like to believe -- I like to believe, I'm a Jew 100 percent.</sentence><sentence id="3175">There is no question.</sentence><sentence id="3176">But pray for who?</sentence><sentence id="3177">For who?</sentence><sentence id="3178">Where is he?</sentence><sentence id="3179">What to do?</sentence><sentence id="3180">God, I see with my eyes.</sentence><sentence id="3181">We was wondering there was a priest, an older priest and he fall on his knees by the Saint Maria in <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3182">You know, there was the Christ and all these things, and a German come in, a young German kill him on the spot.</sentence><sentence id="3183">And there is nothing there.</sentence><sentence id="3184">Even this guy should -- his hand should be paralyzed and, you going to tell me there is a God?There is a priest.</sentence><sentence id="3185">There is a Pope, all these things, but, nothing is not true.</sentence><sentence id="3186">Is nothing there.</sentence><sentence id="3187">Even today in the 21st century we believe, make such a thing as murders, killing little babies, little children.</sentence><sentence id="3188">Why?</sentence><sentence id="3189">What difference?</sentence><sentence id="3190">Jew, not Jew?</sentence><sentence id="3191">We all the same.</sentence><sentence id="3192">They have the same blood.</sentence><sentence id="3193">Why?</sentence><sentence id="3194">Who you going to ask?</sentence><sentence id="3195">Who you going to ask?</sentence><sentence id="3196">Who we going to ask?</sentence><sentence id="3197">Stop it.</sentence><sentence id="3198">What are you going to say?</sentence><sentence id="3199">I have the same thing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3232">Q: Let me ask you, was there -- did you ever feel like you would get out of there?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3234">A: No, no.</sentence><sentence id="3235">I know once in 1945 in 18 of January.</sentence><sentence id="3236">So we don't go out no day before.</sentence><sentence id="3237">Two days before, we don't go out to work.</sentence><sentence id="3238">The Kommandos were a little, you know, some no problem, but the Germans was very hard, so I say, "Uh-oh, something happen."</sentence><sentence id="3239">And this time they start to make the bombardment on the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3240">You know, the I.G. Farben was 2 bombarded.</sentence><sentence id="3241">The repair was bombarded.</sentence><sentence id="3242">It was something.</sentence><sentence id="3243">So on the 18 of January there was an order, we have to go together and we was out.</sentence><sentence id="3244">The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> was liquidated and the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3245">We have to go out.</sentence><sentence id="3246">So we was walking the whole night until a certain <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Gleiwitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3247">So we was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3248">We went to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3249">We stay over night and the next day they come in.</sentence><sentence id="3250">We have to go to the <span class="BUILDING">train station</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3251">And in this gruppe"", I was most of the last one.</sentence><sentence id="3252">And we have to take out the peoples what was first in the Krankenhaus*(r), in <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="3253">So we have peoples.</sentence><sentence id="3254">There was a little, not all young.</sentence><sentence id="3255">They was a little sick, you know, and we have to take them out, and they sit <span class="NPIP">outside</span> the <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3256">It was -- I saw was one or two SS, they shoot them, they shoot all those people.</sentence><sentence id="3257">There was a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">river</span> from blood.</sentence><sentence id="3258">I couldn't -- we go to the <span class="BUILDING">station</span> and they put us in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, you know that.</sentence><sentence id="3259">They put in the beast, you know, the cows.</sentence><sentence id="3260">They put us in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, and it was maybe eight days long.</sentence><sentence id="3261">It was a ride maybe eight kilometers up and down, up and down, and everything was closed.</sentence><sentence id="3262">We don't have no water.</sentence><sentence id="3263">It was wintertime, no water, no food, nothing, but in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">trains</span>, in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span> there was a -- you know, between the wood was little bit open.</sentence><sentence id="3264">So we have the <span class="DLF">air</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3265">So we coming back to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Gleiwitz</span> and I was hearing an order is coming from the Germans, and they say, "SS abriicken, Haftlinge stehenlassen.""</sentence><sentence id="3266">So the SS have to go away but they have to leave the prisoners in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagons</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3267">So one officer say, "No, we have to take the prisoners with us.</sentence><sentence id="3268">They was a -- they going to protect us."</sentence><sentence id="3269">And they open the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> with the machine rifle they start to shoot them.</sentence><sentence id="3270">I have just one.</sentence><sentence id="3271">I received here.</sentence><sentence id="3272">I don't know if you can see. (</sentence><sentence id="3273">Indicating.)</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3314">Q: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3316">A: So I fell down and have to roll.</sentence><sentence id="3317">I don't know how long.</sentence><sentence id="3318">I don't remember because it was just shooting and lots of dead, and we was walking in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">bushes</span>, and from both <span class="NPIP">sides</span> the SS with machine rifles they shoot.</sentence><sentence id="3319">It was lots of people run away, run to the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">bushes</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3320">I don't know if they catch them or kill them.</sentence><sentence id="3321">And we are were wandering the whole night.</sentence><sentence id="3322">We were walking until the next day.</sentence><sentence id="3323">We come in the morning.</sentence><sentence id="3324">We come in the <span class="BUILDING">prison</span>, and we fell on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floors</span>, and we sleep on the <span class="INT_SPACE">floor</span> until next day.</sentence><sentence id="3325">Next day we have to walk.</sentence><sentence id="3326">And we walk 2000 kilometers from 18 of January until ninth of May, 1945.</sentence><sentence id="3327">And we was by <span class="DLF">streets</span>, all kind of <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">towns</span>, and sometimes we have a <span class="NPIP">place</span> to stay, in <span class="NPIP">place</span> one day.</sentence><sentence id="3328">One day -- it was in March -- we come in a <span class="NPIP">place</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3329">I don't remember anymore the <span class="NPIP">place</span>, and there it was, a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> just for the Polish people.</sentence><sentence id="3330">I don't know if it was 47 Group (German); military term for basic unit of 10 men. "</sentence><sentence id="3331">8 <span class="BUILDING">Hospital</span> (German) * SS go away, prisoners stay (German) 3 concentration, if it was a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">work camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3332">And so the SS, I hear what they say, "We going put the prisoners there and we going to have a rest for one or two days."</sentence><sentence id="3333">Because, I think, they was tired, too.</sentence><sentence id="3334">But the chief in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, he doesn't want to let us in.</sentence><sentence id="3335">And in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> it was a <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span>, a little <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span> and they make a <span class="DLF">tunnel</span> -- you know what a <span class="DLF">tunnel</span> is -- in case the fliers come in to bomb.</sentence><sentence id="3336">And so the people from this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> can go in and to be safe, but it doesn't make it right through.</sentence><sentence id="3337">And the chief say, "Okay, we going to put the prisoners over there."</sentence><sentence id="3338">They put us there and it was not so very high and so it was cold.</sentence><sentence id="3339">Everybody go on the end but it was closed.</sentence><sentence id="3340">You couldn't go nowhere because it was not finished, it was not finished.</sentence><sentence id="3341">The compress us.</sentence><sentence id="3342">All the things was <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, so I went there too, and it was a little warm but after I say, "Is little bit but no <span class="DLF">air</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3343">I want to go in the front."</sentence><sentence id="3344">And they wanting the chief, the commandant in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3345">They make soup, you know, liquid soup.</sentence><sentence id="3346">So I have it was a part with me, and I say I going to go in the front every time and I going to take a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="3347">I have to eat, so I take one and I say I going to take one, and I have a nice time.</sentence><sentence id="3348">In meantime we start to missing <span class="DLF">air</span> in the end, no <span class="DLF">air</span>, no <span class="DLF">air</span>, and everybody want to go in the front.</sentence><sentence id="3349">So like here, you have the <span class="DLF">door</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3350">When you open the <span class="DLF">door</span>, it was a <span class="NPIP">place</span> -- "This one for me -- a good <span class="NPIP">place</span>, I gonna go there, I go to hide there.</sentence><sentence id="3351">Nobody going to see me and I have the fresh air."</sentence><sentence id="3352">And the front was two SS and every time when the peoples want to go to the front, they shoot them.</sentence><sentence id="3353">They kill them and they kill lots of peoples.</sentence><sentence id="3354">And they put in -- there was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> <span class="NPIP">outside</span> and they put a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> in front so nobody can go in.</sentence><sentence id="3355">What I going to tell you?</sentence><sentence id="3356">I can't describe it.</sentence><sentence id="3357">There was screaming and crying and the peoples, they running to the <span class="DLF">walls</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3358">They licked the <span class="DLF">walls</span> because it was wet from the no <span class="DLF">air</span>, and you see the oxide coming out.</sentence><sentence id="3359">It was there in March.</sentence><sentence id="3360">It was about six o'clock.</sentence><sentence id="3361">It was dark and the front was the SS.</sentence><sentence id="3362">They let nobody out.</sentence><sentence id="3363">We have to stay <span class="NPIP">inside</span> until the next day in the morning, and the morning was lights come in, maybe eight o'clock and they called all the SS to come in, and they let out the people that was still alive, and the firework was coming.</sentence><sentence id="3364">They couldn't go in.</sentence><sentence id="3365">They had to take the gas mask, they couldn't go in the end and from the end they took out peoples there.</sentence><sentence id="3366">Dead.</sentence><sentence id="3367">Maybe 100, 150 people was dead.</sentence><sentence id="3368">And some peoples could survive on the end, coming out after five, six minutes they <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, they fell down and die because the lungs, they couldn't support.</sentence><sentence id="3369">And I was there maybe couple days, and they took the dead peoples put between the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, they all frozen.</sentence><sentence id="3370">Food, no question about food for us there.</sentence><sentence id="3371">And about eight days later we have to go away.</sentence><sentence id="3372">And we start again to walk, and the order was to shoot the people, to kill us.</sentence><sentence id="3373">But they couldn't kill us in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> because it civil people there and they couldn't -- they doesn't want to give us to deliver to the Russian, because the Russians coming from the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3374">And they don't want to give us to the American soldier, but the American was too far.</sentence><sentence id="3375">So we was between and we was walking every 4 day.</sentence><sentence id="3376">Every day we was walking.</sentence><sentence id="3377">It was a couple SS and they pull out peoples and they shoot.</sentence><sentence id="3378">So I say, "God, something happen.</sentence><sentence id="3379">I won't survive."</sentence><sentence id="3380">So I have -- on my side it was a little SS.</sentence><sentence id="3381">He was -- I don't know if he was from <span class="COUNTRY">Yugoslavia</span>, an older man, maybe 60, maybe more, and he have on backsack.</sentence><sentence id="3382">So I say to him, "Look, you not a young man.</sentence><sentence id="3383">You know what?</sentence><sentence id="3384">Give me your back.</sentence><sentence id="3385">I going to carry them."</sentence><sentence id="3386">So he say, "Why you want to do that?" "</sentence><sentence id="3387">I want to help you.</sentence><sentence id="3388">You tired.</sentence><sentence id="3389">I want to help you.</sentence><sentence id="3390">I think that's good."</sentence><sentence id="3391">So he take out -- he give me the thing he was walking just on the side from me.</sentence><sentence id="3392">So every time they eat, they have food, they have bread, so he give me just a piece of bread for me.</sentence><sentence id="3393">It was good and I can walk, first of all.</sentence><sentence id="3394">Second, I was sure no SS going to come and grab me to kill me because I have his things, and he going to take care of it because he want already -- I have -- SS they want to come in and grab me he say, "Uh-oh, don't touch it's mine."</sentence><sentence id="3395">So I was already okay, and when I was doing that so many peoples, not many have prisoners like me to do that.</sentence><sentence id="3396">There was about five, six that we carried the SS sack.</sentence><sentence id="3397">And in summertime, so we find a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3398">We put all these goods from the Germans, from the SS, on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>, and we was pushing the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3399">And we was okay.</sentence><sentence id="3400">We didn't have food, but at least I was sure -- I was not sure -- but I was sure I was going to live until night.</sentence><sentence id="3401">I don't know what going to be next day.</sentence><sentence id="3402">So they put us in all kind of <span class="NPIP">place</span> to sleep, and in the morning we see one dead on one <span class="NPIP">side</span>, one dead on other <span class="NPIP">side</span> -- the people dying like nothing.</sentence><sentence id="3403">And it coming May 9, 1945 about seven, eight o'clock in the morning, and it was not far from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.6760107" long="16.199579">Friedland</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Sudetenland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3404">There was still a little SS come into me and took me by the arm.</sentence><sentence id="3405">He say to me in German, "Go hin(r)", where you wollt"", aber lasst euch ja nicht erwischen bei unsere Briider.""? "</sentence><sentence id="3406">Go where you want, but take care the Germans doesn't catch you."</sentence><sentence id="3407">And this was my liberation.</sentence><sentence id="3408">The Russian come in there and this was May 1945, and I was with my friend from <span class="COUNTRY">Holland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3409">My friend and we was running, running, and we saw already, you know, the Germans was sitting the rifles and all these things, all on the side.</sentence><sentence id="3410">No more.</sentence><sentence id="3411">And one moment everybody who running -- the Germans was running, all the soldiers was running.</sentence><sentence id="3412">So I was on the <span class="DLF">highway</span> and I stay and I wasn't German, and I say, "Hey, why you running so fast?"</sentence><sentence id="3413">So he say, "Fast, fast, Ivan come!"</sentence><sentence id="3414">And the Russian coming, this was the liberation.</sentence><sentence id="3415">He was lucky he was the first officer that I saw.</sentence><sentence id="3416">It was a Jew, Russian, Jew, Russian, and this when was the liberation.</sentence><sentence id="3417">So you can imagine.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3522">Q: Could you believe this was really true?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3524">A: No, and the first thing that he say, "You go back about five or 10 kilometers because here we have to find, it still the Hitlerjugend*" -- was still in the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">bushes</span> was hiding and -- "we have to clean it up."</sentence><sentence id="3525">But this was impossible -- I couldn't believe it.</sentence><sentence id="3526">I was at this time, I *deg there (German) 5!</sentence><sentence id="3527">want (German) &gt;&gt; but don't let yourself be caught by our brothers (German) * Hitler youth (German); Nazi youth organization.</sentence><sentence id="3528">5 was maybe 30 kilos, about 60 pounds and eating -- I don't have eat maybe, one or two weeks and it was very hard not to eat, but in this time, you know, the snow, there, it was melted, it was blackened, and this is what we ate.</sentence><sentence id="3529">This was our nourishment.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3540">Q: You ate the snow?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3542">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3544">Q: Now, did the Russians then come back and take care of you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3546">A: Yeah.</sentence><sentence id="3547">The Russian was there and we going back, and I was -- we went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ringelshain</span> in this one -- in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Sudetenland</span>, you know, and <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span> and I was there.</sentence><sentence id="3548">I was there a little time and I don't know nothing about my brothers.</sentence><sentence id="3549">Because all this time I think maybe they are all dead.</sentence><sentence id="3550">So one thing that happened, you know, there was lots of people, watch us passing in this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, and so there was boy.</sentence><sentence id="3551">He was passing and I was talking with him.</sentence><sentence id="3552">So I told, I ask him, "Where you going?"</sentence><sentence id="3553">So he say "Oh, I don't want to stay here.</sentence><sentence id="3554">I go to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3555">From <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> I go to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>."</sentence><sentence id="3556">And I say, "Maybe, maybe, you saw my brother."</sentence><sentence id="3557">I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="3558">But this guy he went like say, he say, he went to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> he went to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> and he go exactly the same <span class="NPIP">place</span> where my brother was.</sentence><sentence id="3559">So the same thing I ask him and so he say, "I saw your brother.</sentence><sentence id="3560">Yes, your brother is dead."</sentence><sentence id="3561">So, I receive a letter from him.</sentence><sentence id="3562">I receive a letter, I say, "I don't have nothing to do here."</sentence><sentence id="3563">So from <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span> I went to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and I go to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span>, to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>, and when I arrive there so, you know, we have all over friend.</sentence><sentence id="3564">I have all over people I know from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3565">So I saw one, he say "Aye, look, your brother is looking after you." "</sentence><sentence id="3566">My brother is looking after me?"</sentence><sentence id="3567">He say, "yes." "</sentence><sentence id="3568">How is looking, my brother?"</sentence><sentence id="3569">He describe me completely like my older brother is -- he went to <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chambers</span> -- so I say, "Look, I think you made a mistake."</sentence><sentence id="3570">And he say, "No, I don't make a mistake, I think he's younger from you."</sentence><sentence id="3571">He told me, "and is that and that and that." "</sentence><sentence id="3572">You have the address?"</sentence><sentence id="3573">And he say "No, I don't have the address."</sentence><sentence id="3574">So we took a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">taxi</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3575">We run the whole day over all <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span> and that night I find him, and he doesn't know from me, and he doesn't know from me from my brother -- that was in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3576">And I said "Look, Aaron is alive and is there and there."</sentence><sentence id="3577">And we send him a telegram.</sentence><sentence id="3578">He went from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3579">He come to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="48.133" long="11.567">Munich</span>, to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and from <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> went to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3580">We were all three together, and after my two brothers, they went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3581">From <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> they went to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> and from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> and here I am.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3618">Q: So the three of you were together?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3620">A: Yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3624">Q: And they went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3626">A: What?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3628">Q: They went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3630">A: No, they, went my brother went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> in 1947, or "48.</sentence><sentence id="3631">After "48, you know by <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> was <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> received the independence.</sentence><sentence id="3632">They went to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3636">Q: And how come you didn't go with them?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3638">A: Because I was married in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3640">Q: Did you have a difficult time getting to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3642">A: I don't have no difficult in <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span>, but I have very much difficult in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, yes.</sentence><sentence id="3643">Because they ask me always papers -- and we don't have no papers -- you couldn't stay in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3644">And we want to stay in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3645">We don't have no right to work, no have to right to make business, and every three months we have to go to the police.</sentence><sentence id="3646">And, you know, to present, to say, "I'm here," and always was the same question. "</sentence><sentence id="3647">What you doing here?</sentence><sentence id="3648">And why you stay here?"</sentence><sentence id="3649">So the one thing I say is, "for the moment I want to here, but we want to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>, to <span class="COUNTRY">Palestine</span>."</sentence><sentence id="3650">And he gave me, you know, for three months and again for three months and -- but before, when we arrived in <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>, we was in a <span class="BUILDING">home</span> for old peoples, like an <span class="BUILDING">orphan house</span>, but it is not for young but was already old, 17, 18 years.</sentence><sentence id="3651">But before that we have was maybe, you know, <span class="COUNTRY">Namur</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3652">Namur was a priest, a very, very good man, a very fine man, and have trouble with the police because they doesn't want to let us be there.</sentence><sentence id="3653">So the gendarmes, the <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> gendarmes they want to take out to pass the <span class="DLF">border</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3654">So they took one, they put on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">truck</span>, and time they want to take someone else.</sentence><sentence id="3655">They escaped.</sentence><sentence id="3656">It was the priest.</sentence><sentence id="3657">He say, "Stop.</sentence><sentence id="3658">I going to take all."</sentence><sentence id="3659">So he took all the peoples in the <span class="BUILDING">church</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3660">Jewish people went all there until a Jewish chaplain from the American Army, he know about that, and he took the -- all this people, Brux-- Linkebeek.</sentence><sentence id="3661">And it was a <span class="BUILDING">home</span> there.</sentence><sentence id="3662">It was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Linkebeek</span> in this <span class="BUILDING">home</span>, and we was support by the Jewish committee until a certain time.</sentence><sentence id="3663">After they liquidate this <span class="BUILDING">home</span> and everybody have to go to work, but we have some trouble with the work and we need an carte Widentite(tm), a card.</sentence><sentence id="3664">Some people have a white card, some people have an Model "C" this one with * identity card (French) 7 just use fingerprints.</sentence><sentence id="3665">And we have trouble to stay there.</sentence><sentence id="3666">We never could be a Belgium citizen.</sentence><sentence id="3667">So the best way is to go out.</sentence><sentence id="3668">And we start, you know, to make the registration to <span class="COUNTRY">Australia</span>, to <span class="COUNTRY">New Zealand</span>, and to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3669">So the first thing my brother, the younger brother, went to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> here and after we come.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3699">Q: But I thought he was already in <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3701">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="3702">From <span class="COUNTRY">Israel</span> he come, you know, he make his service, military service.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3705">Q: He came back?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3707">A: Came back from <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3708">He come here to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3711">Q: So you applied to various <span class="COUNTRY">countries</span> and <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> accepted you first?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3713">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="3714">Now <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> is my <span class="BUILDING">home</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3717">Q: Were you in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">DP camp</span> in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span> long?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3719">A: There was no <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3721">Q: There wasn't a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3723">A: No, I was not in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3724">I was in <span class="BUILDING">private home</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3725">I was in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, about a year, a year and a half because I have to find somebody.</sentence><sentence id="3726">I couldn't imagine the whole family, nobody dead.</sentence><sentence id="3727">So I travel.</sentence><sentence id="3728">I want to go to <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> but when I come to Polish, on the <span class="DLF">border</span>, Polish-Czechoslovakia they start to take us to the army.</sentence><sentence id="3729">So I say, "Hold it, stop.</sentence><sentence id="3730">First of all, I can't kill nobody.</sentence><sentence id="3731">Second, I am no good for the army.</sentence><sentence id="3732">I was already five year in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>."</sentence><sentence id="3733">Not for me, the army.</sentence><sentence id="3734">So, I remember very well.</sentence><sentence id="3735">It was the German prisoners, the sick, wounded prisoners that was from the war.</sentence><sentence id="3736">They was in <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> this pass from <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span> and <span class="COUNTRY">Poland Czechoslovakia</span> and most of prisoners from the <span class="REGION">Russian front</span> from the German.</sentence><sentence id="3737">They pass <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Poland</span>, <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3738">So the first thing at night there was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3739">I jump on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">train</span> and I went in <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span> because <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span> was the maybe, is today I don't know, it was the one civilized <span class="COUNTRY">country</span> from the old <span class="REGION">eastern country</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3740">First of all, no antisemite is there.</sentence><sentence id="3741">There are very, very fine people.</sentence><sentence id="3742">There are today very fine people, very good, and they help lot, they help.</sentence><sentence id="3743"><span class="BUILDING">Red Cross</span>, they help me and after I went to <span class="BUILDING">UNRRA</span> and I was very good there.</sentence><sentence id="3744">But soon I receive a letter from my brothers.</sentence><sentence id="3745">I say and the same thing and this time, you know, I don't know if you know, Masaryk* was the president from <span class="COUNTRY">Czechoslovakia</span>, he kill himself and this started the trouble with the Communists.</sentence><sentence id="3746">deg Jan Masaryk (1886-1948); Czech statesman.</sentence><sentence id="3747">8 And I say, "I'm not a Communist.</sentence><sentence id="3748">I was in diktature(tm)(r) already long enough.</sentence><sentence id="3749">I want to be free.</sentence><sentence id="3750">I want to freedom so nobody can tell me what I do, what I -- nobody can do what I have to say.</sentence><sentence id="3751">What I have to do, what I have to say.</sentence><sentence id="3752">I want out."</sentence><sentence id="3753">So, the first thing that I do, I take my friend and we went to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> and in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Prague</span> was just -- you know, I listen by the radio.</sentence><sentence id="3754">It was the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Nuremberg</span> process.</sentence><sentence id="3755">So they make the process and the next day we smuggle the <span class="DLF">border</span>, and we arrive to <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span> and then Miinchen, you know -- not Miinchen, but it was in <span class="REGION">West Germany</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3756">And from the <span class="REGION">West Germany</span> I say, "Now I am in a democratic country."</sentence><sentence id="3757">The American was there.</sentence><sentence id="3758">I don't care but I don't stay not long, because we went to <span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3759"><span class="COUNTRY">Belgium</span> we have trouble but the government doesn't let us there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3797">Q: You're with your brother at this point?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3799">A: I was always with my brothers, yes.</sentence><sentence id="3800">And that's the way was.</sentence><sentence id="3801">Look, we go to <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> -- not to <span class="COUNTRY">United States</span> -- we went to <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> then.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3805">Q: Did the Russians treat you well when they liberated you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3807">A: Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="3808">Oh, yes.</sentence><sentence id="3809">At first you know we cry.</sentence><sentence id="3810">We cry.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3815">Q: You know what --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3817">A: They was very, fine.</sentence><sentence id="3818">Very good. %</sentence><sentence id="3819">dictatorship (Yiddish) 9 Tape #4</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3823">Q: I'd just like to finish up what we were talking about earlier, which was I was asking you how the Russians who liberated you, how they treated you.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3825">A: Very, very good.</sentence><sentence id="3826">First of all, they know already because before they coming to us, they pass already <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> there, and the whole way that they make from the <span class="COUNTRY">Russian country</span> "til us.</sentence><sentence id="3827">They liberated 100 different <span class="BUILDING">prisons</span> and they saw all of that, and they saw the <span class="BUILDING">crematoriums</span>, they saw all these things.</sentence><sentence id="3828">So when they arrived on us, they saw this.</sentence><sentence id="3829">They know about us.</sentence><sentence id="3830">They know, and I remember when the Russian arrived, the officer, the first thing what he gave me a piece of bread.</sentence><sentence id="3831">And he have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycle</span> and he told me, "You know what?</sentence><sentence id="3832">You sit on the side <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3833">You going show me all the Germans that kill, that was bad."</sentence><sentence id="3834">And, you know, it was the first soldier that coming and it was always with <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycle</span> and on this <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycle</span> was a machine gun.</sentence><sentence id="3835">And, you know, they was in the middle and all the soldiers, the German soldiers have to be on the side because, you know, they was the Russian soldiers come in, and they took them all to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3836">And I, so far I remember, I was -- gun -- I saw a gun and I start to play with it and the gun start to shoot, and maybe I kill some Germans.</sentence><sentence id="3837">I don't know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3851">Q: Did you want to?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3853">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="3854">I can't watch them.</sentence><sentence id="3855">I know it was and I say, "Hey, hey, stop it.</sentence><sentence id="3856">I don't know how to stop it."</sentence><sentence id="3857">But it doesn't take time, it was so fast.</sentence><sentence id="3858">And I remember we coming back, I don't know if he was talking Russian.</sentence><sentence id="3859">Meantime, they take away all the Germans, all the SS with the Germans, they took to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3867">Q: What <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> did they take them to?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3869">A: The <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">prisoner camp</span>, and after they separate them, SS one camp the Wehrmacht" in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">second camp</span>, and the women was to the SS women was... and I remember it was an officer with a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycle</span> come in.</sentence><sentence id="3870">He want to pass, and on his <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">motorcycle</span> have a machine gun.</sentence><sentence id="3871">So the Russians, the Russian officer, he say, "hey stop, go down and come in."</sentence><sentence id="3872">And the officer was saying -- and he talk to his soldiers, "Take him, bring him there."</sentence><sentence id="3873">He doesn't want to.</sentence><sentence id="3874">He stay up.</sentence><sentence id="3875">He want to take the gun, so they kill him.</sentence><sentence id="3876">They shoot him and the first thing that I do -- I have no shoes -- so I take his boots.</sentence><sentence id="3877">They were beautiful, nice boots, and I take his boots and I look in his pocket.</sentence><sentence id="3878">Maybe he have bread or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="3879">So I take -- and I find a piece of bread and a piece of soap.</sentence><sentence id="3880">The first deg7 General title of German armed forces from 1935 to 1945.</sentence><sentence id="3881">0 time.</sentence><sentence id="3882">So the Germans, they give us, you know, machorka(tm), it was the tabek"(r) -- to things -- and bread, and we have some meat.</sentence><sentence id="3883">Not meat, but salami, the Russian salami.</sentence><sentence id="3884">And they say, "go back" and we went back.</sentence><sentence id="3885">So we went back maybe about 10 kilometers, back.</sentence><sentence id="3886">We have meantime, I have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3887">I have a horse.</sentence><sentence id="3888">I have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycle</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3889">I have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3890">I don't know how to drive, but I drive a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">car</span> a little bit.</sentence><sentence id="3891">But so far, so long we have gasoline.</sentence><sentence id="3892">We don't have no gasoline, and after I have a horse, but the horse was more tired than me so I leave it there, until I have a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bicycle</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3893">And we went to a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span>, a <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">town</span> called <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Ringelshain</span> and I saw a little <span class="BUILDING">house</span> on the <span class="ENV_FEATURES">mountain</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3894">And I say to my friend Jackie, I say, "You know what, Jackie, we are going up there.</sentence><sentence id="3895">We are going to try to pass the night over there, but here on the <span class="DLF">road</span> is going to be very noisy because the army pass."</sentence><sentence id="3896">And so he say, "okay."</sentence><sentence id="3897">So we go up the little <span class="DLF">hill</span> and it was a little <span class="BUILDING">house</span>, and we knocked.</sentence><sentence id="3898">There was two old, one man and one woman and I was maybe crazy, not crazy but I very polite, and they were German too.</sentence><sentence id="3899">And I say, "I'm sorry, we coming from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3900">We're very tired -- so, maybe we can pass the night here?</sentence><sentence id="3901">I don't want to stay here, but maybe you have a <span class="BUILDING">shed</span> or something like that?"</sentence><sentence id="3902">So he told us, "Look, we are not farmers.</sentence><sentence id="3903">We don't have nothing.</sentence><sentence id="3904">But there" -- he show me over there -- ""is a big <span class="DLF">farm</span>, over there you can go and you can pass."</sentence><sentence id="3905">In meantime there was a young lady stick out her head and she say, "Hey, hey, come here.</sentence><sentence id="3906">How you talk?</sentence><sentence id="3907">You speak Russian?"</sentence><sentence id="3908">So, I say, "Yes."</sentence><sentence id="3909">But you believe me, at this time believe me or not, but at this time I was talking about -- speaking about seven language.</sentence><sentence id="3910">But I was with all kind of people.</sentence><sentence id="3911">We have French -- not English -- French and Russian and Yugoslav.</sentence><sentence id="3912">All kind of the slavish tongue, and we have Hungarian.</sentence><sentence id="3913">We have Greek.</sentence><sentence id="3914">And this all you have to understood all together, so for each language you take a couple words and you learn.</sentence><sentence id="3915">So I say, "yes."</sentence><sentence id="3916">So she say, "You want to come in because some Russian come in and they make us some trouble, and we can't speak with them.</sentence><sentence id="3917">Maybe you can speak with them."</sentence><sentence id="3918">So we go in and first of all, we was so dirty.</sentence><sentence id="3919">So we have to go and wash up and they give us, I remember she start to cut bread, but little slices.</sentence><sentence id="3920">So I say, "Oh, no.</sentence><sentence id="3921">That's not for us."</sentence><sentence id="3922">I took a big slice of bread.</sentence><sentence id="3923">And the first time after so many years, I sleep in a good <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>.</sentence><sentence id="3924">And the next day we go out and we were looking for brother, maybe a sister.</sentence><sentence id="3925">Maybe was and we went to the Russian commandant too, and they give us all kind of things too and it was very, very nice.</sentence><sentence id="3926">Very good.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3986">Q: Let me just go back a minute to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> and ask you a few questions.</sentence><sentence id="3987">One is, when you were in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>, did you have much connection with or much knowledge about was happening in the rest of the <span class="BUILDING">complex</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class=""><p><sentence id="3990">8 Tobacco (Polish)</sentence></p><p><sentence id="3991">&gt;&gt; Snuff (Yiddish) 1</sentence></p></dialogue><dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3992">A: What?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="3994">Q: In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="3996">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="3997">We have all the news.</sentence><sentence id="3998">We have all the news because it was every day, every day was the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="3999">Because first, you know, Mengele was, most of time, he was in he was <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> in the morning, when we was marching out from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> to work he was there.</sentence><sentence id="4000">He was there with a little stick, you know, and when he showing somebody, "this guy have to be take out," and he went, you know, in a special <span class="DLF">block</span> and they put them, they put all of them.</sentence><sentence id="4001">There was the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, three <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">beds</span>, but they took out the wood between and they close them like a box.</sentence><sentence id="4002">Inside they put in these people and the next day they come, you know, with the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">truck</span> and to put all these people in that.</sentence><sentence id="4003">They want to send to the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4004">So we know that because we knew every day, every day.</sentence><sentence id="4005">It is not just sick people.</sentence><sentence id="4006">Even the healthy peoples.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4018">Q: But did you know sort of what the structure of the other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> were or did people come from those <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span> to you and tell you what it was like at the different <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camps</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4020">A: Yes.</sentence><sentence id="4021">My brother, when he was taken away from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> they send him to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="49.972922" long="19.135466">Jawischowitz</span>, and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="49.972922" long="19.135466">Jawischowitz</span> was a <span class="DLF">coal mine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4022">Now, in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>, if somebody have a bad record, like in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Kapo</span>, you know, a Kapo he went to the <span class="BUILDING">jail</span>, to the SS, and say "look, this guy is not a good worker," or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="4023">So he doesn't kill him, but they send him to a very hard job and in the <span class="DLF">coal mines</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4024">They have, you know, it was punishment.</sentence><sentence id="4025">So they send him for eight days -- not eight days, maybe three weeks, four weeks in <span class="DLF">coal mine</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4026">In <span class="DLF">coal mine</span> like my brother told me, he was there, he was working on his belly, so deep, they have to shovel the coals it was so deep.</sentence><sentence id="4027">So it was very, very hard.</sentence><sentence id="4028">And how I know?</sentence><sentence id="4029">Because this guy, he was strong, so he survive.</sentence><sentence id="4030">And after surviving he come back to us and he give me news.</sentence><sentence id="4031">He say, "Look, I saw your brother.</sentence><sentence id="4032">Your brother is in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="49.972922" long="19.135466">Jawischowitz</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4033">He work there."</sentence><sentence id="4034">So I make all my possible.</sentence><sentence id="4035">He was a guy, he was Erwin, called him -- he was an Altreich" Jew.</sentence><sentence id="4036">He was an Rapport-Schreiber(r)".</sentence><sentence id="4037">He was working in the <span class="BUILDING">office</span> with the German for the worker.</sentence><sentence id="4038">If somebody change the commander or somebody go from one <span class="DLF">block</span> -- the first thing, I was in <span class="DLF">block four</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4039">After they send me to <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4040">After from <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span> they send me to <span class="BUILDING">block 51</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4041">And this was the, like I say, an accountant.</sentence><sentence id="4042">And they make all the paperwork.</sentence><sentence id="4043">So I was talking with him, and I tell him -- I beg him, "Look, I have my brother.</sentence><sentence id="4044">He was working there and there and maybe you can do something.</sentence><sentence id="4045">Maybe try." %</sentence><sentence id="4046">Old empire (German); term used for regions within <span class="COUNTRY">Germany</span>'s pre-1938 borders. *!</sentence><sentence id="4047">Report writer (German) 2 So he promised me.</sentence><sentence id="4048">I say, "My brother's a barber.</sentence><sentence id="4049">He, you know, he going to shave you."</sentence><sentence id="4050">I promise all kind of thing, so he say "I going to try to do that."</sentence><sentence id="4051">So he so that, So he make him like an electrician, special electrician, special.</sentence><sentence id="4052">So, I think it was end of 1943.My brother come to my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Buna camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4053">I was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> and he was the same electrician.</sentence><sentence id="4054">I was electrician.</sentence><sentence id="4055">He was electrician, so you can imagine what kind of electrician we was there.</sentence><sentence id="4056">So these people they told us everything that happened there, like some people coming from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span>, they took every time to put is called a Sonderkommando(tm).</sentence><sentence id="4057">That mean, I don't remember exactly how many, but these people, they took out when the people was gassed dead in the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chamber</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4058">They took out these people, put them on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> and push them to the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">oven</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4059">But these people don't do long time because -- I'm sorry -- they put out the dead peoples and they put on the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4060">And most of them, they put two men and one women because the women, they burn faster and better for men.</sentence><sentence id="4061">And they put them off a little <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">wagon</span> and they push them in the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">oven</span> to be burned.</sentence><sentence id="4062">And these people doesn't work long.</sentence><sentence id="4063">Maybe after two weeks, they are gassed, killed, because they don't want nobody to have to live.</sentence><sentence id="4064">Can't tell nobody what happened, so they kill them.</sentence><sentence id="4065">And we know that.</sentence><sentence id="4066">Then they have special peoples.</sentence><sentence id="4067">They was very good traitor.</sentence><sentence id="4068">They received very good food, but eight days later, two weeks later, they have to go, and they took somebody else.</sentence><sentence id="4069">And we know that.</sentence><sentence id="4070">Exactly the same thing.</sentence><sentence id="4071">They took the Russian prisoners, the women prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="4072">They took out the marrow from the bones to put to inject the German soldiers.</sentence><sentence id="4073">We know that.</sentence><sentence id="4074">The experiments, because something the doctors tell us the same thing.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4132">Q: The doctors told you?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4134">A: They talk together and they have peoples, like I say, they go into this <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> to take the clothes from the dead, because they don't have so many.</sentence><sentence id="4135">But in the end, like 1945, beginning -- not "45 but middle "44, so before the end "44, we don't have any uniforms, like with the stripes.</sentence><sentence id="4136">They don't have anymore.</sentence><sentence id="4137">So we have civilian clothes, but we have to put a patch on the back so you know yellow or other kind of patch.</sentence><sentence id="4138">So they know they are prisoners.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4144">Q: You were in the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> for a long time.</sentence><sentence id="4145">Were you aware of any medical experimentation?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4148">A: No.</sentence><sentence id="4149">In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span> there was no medical experiments because the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span> was not very big.</sentence><sentence id="4150">But once I remember, I was passing there, and I saw it was a very special <span class="NPIP">place</span> where they put the dead peoples there, and I saw two doctors.</sentence><sentence id="4151">I can say it was Mengele and somebody else and they was playing with human brains.</sentence><sentence id="4152">The <span class="DLF">door</span> was open, there was human brains. (</sentence><sentence id="4153">r) Special commando (German); A commando of Jewish prisoners in the six <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">extermination camp</span> selected to work in the <span class="INT_SPACE">gas chambers</span> and <span class="BUILDING">crematoria</span>.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4163">Q: You saw this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4165">A: I saw it with my eyes, yes.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4167">Q: Could you hear what they were talking about?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4169">A: I have to run away because I was scared for them.</sentence><sentence id="4170">They was looking for pistol or for gun or something like that.</sentence><sentence id="4171">And once when my brother come in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>, you know, from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="49.972922" long="19.135466">Jawischowitz</span> into my <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> -- he was a muselman(r).</sentence><sentence id="4172">He was very skinny, and so I try to help him.</sentence><sentence id="4173">So he was working for the Kommando, for the Luftgaukommando(tm) -- that mean they make the <span class="DLF">graves</span> and the <span class="DLF">holes</span> in the special machine guns against the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">planes</span>, and they receive very good food, the Germans -- but he was in the commander and they have a couple men with him.</sentence><sentence id="4174">And the Germans received this food.</sentence><sentence id="4175">But always in the cans they leave a little bit of soup and before these cans have to go back to the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> they have to be washed.</sentence><sentence id="4176">So they give him, they say, "Hey, you, you come here.</sentence><sentence id="4177">Take the soup but wash the cans."</sentence><sentence id="4178">But the cans was washed with iron brushes, and he was always hungry, he doesn't see -- so ate the soup and he swallowed a piece of wire.</sentence><sentence id="4179">One Sunday he come to me and he say he was -- it was after, so you have to be a barber and so he shave this guy and somebody else and he say, "T have such a pains in my stomach.</sentence><sentence id="4180">I don't know what happened.</sentence><sentence id="4181">I have lots of pains."</sentence><sentence id="4182">So I say, "You know what, come, I go with you to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>."</sentence><sentence id="4183">But I know this chief of the doctors for the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4184">So, I say "Stefan" -- he was a Polack -- "Stefan, look, my brother have pains.</sentence><sentence id="4185">You come see something."</sentence><sentence id="4186">So he put him on a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bench</span> like that there.</sentence><sentence id="4187">Was many doctors coming in and he was saying appendix.</sentence><sentence id="4188">He had such big pains, so they put him at night -- not at night -- to operate him and I was on the other <span class="NPIP">side</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4189">I was hiding but I saw everything that happened.</sentence><sentence id="4190">So it was Dr. Mengele's, because even between the prisoners, there was some good doctors and they worked in this <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4191">And they want to operate him, so they open the belly.</sentence><sentence id="4192">In meantime everything was open.</sentence><sentence id="4193">There was an alarm, you know, the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">planes</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4194">I don't know if English or <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">Russian planes</span> come in.</sentence><sentence id="4195">No lights.</sentence><sentence id="4196">He was laying down with open stomach.</sentence><sentence id="4197">It just take I don't know, very long but the lights coming back.</sentence><sentence id="4198">And the doctors coming back.</sentence><sentence id="4199">I was behind.</sentence><sentence id="4200">I saw that.</sentence><sentence id="4201">I saw Dr.Mengele come into him and say on his shoulder, "Jude, when you live now, you going to live long time."</sentence><sentence id="4202">And they operate on him.</sentence><sentence id="4203">But they pull out all the intestine together very badly and he have very big trouble today, and they can do absolute nothing.</sentence><sentence id="4204">Even when eat a little bit too much, they have to put him to the <span class="BUILDING">hospital</span>, they have to take out everything.</sentence><sentence id="4205">He was very, very sick.</sentence><sentence id="4206">deg Muslim (German); camp term used to refer to prisoners who had lost the will to live and were near death. (</sentence><sentence id="4207">r) Air defense administration (German) 4</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4248">Q: But were you aware of any other weird medical experimentation in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4250">A: By us, I can't say, no.</sentence><sentence id="4251">And I was scared.</sentence><sentence id="4252">I never want to go there because I have enough, and I was burned because everything was gone.</sentence><sentence id="4253">So I don't want to know.</sentence><sentence id="4254">I don't want to go there.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4260">Q: So you really didn't know that there was much medical --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4262">A: I know that they make some but I don't think so that they make by us, no.</sentence><sentence id="4263">But I know they make with the Gypsies.</sentence><sentence id="4264">I know because -- and I know they make with the Russians ladies, the prisoners.</sentence><sentence id="4265">I know from the Jewish people, Jewish woman, they was sterilized.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4270">Q: How did you know this?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4272">A: They told me after the war.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4274">Q: How did they know?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4276">A: The Jewish women, they alive today.</sentence><sentence id="4277">They have in <span class="COUNTRY">Canada</span> and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Montreal</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4278">I have one.</sentence><sentence id="4279">They can't have no children and -- .</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4284">Q: So this was information you got later on?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4286">A: In <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4287">I have from people that coming from <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span>, and <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Birkenau</span> and the other <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> because --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4290">Q: Did anyone say, "I have had some injections?"</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4292">A: No, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="4293">Like I say, I have an injection in my breast.</sentence><sentence id="4294">It was so thick.</sentence><sentence id="4295">What that mean this time, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="4296">What kind of injection and I have experience with my tooth.</sentence><sentence id="4297">What this means, I don't know.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4304">Q: You don't know what it means?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4306">A: It was take a little time and it was gone.</sentence><sentence id="4307">Maybe some people have a reaction, but I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="4308">I don't know because there was so many peoples.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4312">Q: So they gave you an injection.</sentence><sentence id="4313">You don't know what it was?</sentence><sentence id="4314">And a few days later you were okay.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4318">A: I couldn't -- and because if I ask, I have a slap in the face.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4322">Q: They didn't say, "We're giving you a shot for the flu?"</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4324">A: No, no, no.</sentence><sentence id="4325">They never, never say for what.</sentence><sentence id="4326">But we know, we have an injection and maybe one or two days we going to die.</sentence><sentence id="4327">If not, lucky for me.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4332">Q: So they just said, "Come, we're going to give you a shot?"</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4334">A: They say, "Juden have to go there and there and wait."</sentence><sentence id="4335">Or sometimes they say, "Kommando this number and this number Kommando, have to go there."</sentence><sentence id="4336">Because, like I say, there was maybe 12 or 13,000 people.</sentence><sentence id="4337">So they couldn't give in one day the injection for everybody, so they take a certain number of people.</sentence><sentence id="4338">Like a <span class="DLF">block</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4339">Like I was in <span class="BUILDING">block 51</span>, it was maybe a 100 people, 120 peoples and other <span class="DLF">block</span> was exactly 220.</sentence><sentence id="4340">So they take about 200 peoples and, or 150 peoples, and this where you go there, and this was if an experiments, it's possible.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4348">Q: Were you aware of any significant attempts in the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> to resist or sabotage the Germans?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4350">A: I remember once, it was short before the end.</sentence><sentence id="4351">They threw out everybody from the <span class="BUILDING">barracks</span> and it was a block resistor.</sentence><sentence id="4352">There was a guy, he was responsible for the <span class="DLF">block</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4353">He was a Holland man, Bernard I think -- and they took him away.</sentence><sentence id="4354">And they look in every <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, under the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">bed</span>, every <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span>, supposed to have some weapon in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4355">This I know, positive.</sentence><sentence id="4356">If they find something, maybe.</sentence><sentence id="4357">I can't say because we don't see this guy anymore.</sentence><sentence id="4358">Not just him.</sentence><sentence id="4359">Some people, couple peoples, but he was in <span class="COUNTRY">Holland</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4360">I think he was somebody.</sentence><sentence id="4361">He was from the army and big man, but was in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">concentration camp</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4362">But why, I don't know.</sentence><sentence id="4363">And he was, you know, already in <span class="DLF">block</span> he was something special.</sentence><sentence id="4364">And they took him away.</sentence><sentence id="4365">I'm sure they took him away to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> and the Gestapo, and over there they make some questions and pop -- that's it!</sentence><sentence id="4366">Because I know in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Auschwitz</span> it was in <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span>, <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span> was, and in that <span class="DLF">block</span> everybody would have to -- be shot.</sentence><sentence id="4367">They took him to the <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span>, and from <span class="BUILDING">block 14</span> was finished.</sentence><sentence id="4368">Nobody can go out.</sentence><sentence id="4369">Because by us in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE" lat="50.03322" long="19.29246">Buna</span>, they doesn't shot -- they shot, sure -- but no somebody wasn't tried to the Gestapo.</sentence><sentence id="4370">Maybe tried to hang.</sentence><sentence id="4371">This was most of time, almost every day -- it was not news.</sentence><sentence id="4372">So we know when we come into the <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp,</span> we saw in <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">Appellplatz</span>, Appellplatz, we saw soldiers come in, in every <span class="NPIP">corner</span>, soldiers with machine gun and, "Oh, somebody is free today.</sentence><sentence id="4373">He going to have his freedom."</sentence><sentence id="4374">That's it.</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4400">Q: You weren't aware really of a lot of efforts for people to try to sabotage the Germans in the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span> or --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4402">A: In the <span class="BUILDING">factory</span>, special work we didn't have.</sentence><sentence id="4403">They don't trust us.</sentence><sentence id="4404">We make -- like I say, we 6 make all the dirty jobs, the hard jobs, but special jobs they don't trust.</sentence><sentence id="4405">They have their own peoples.</sentence><sentence id="4406">Like they have the Hitlerjugend, they have the old people, the chiefs, the engineers, the architects were all the foreign German peoples, even the women --</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Question"><p><sentence id="4412">Q: How do you think you lasted so long?</sentence><sentence id="4413">How did you last so long?</sentence></p></dialogue>
<dialogue class="Answer"><p><sentence id="4416">A: I was young.</sentence><sentence id="4417">And, you know, this one was maybe my luck because we don't see the danger and we try to keep -- the first thing what I know, I remember when we arrived to <span class="POPULATED_PLACE">camp</span> after the quarantine and we went <span class="NPIP">outside</span>, we were waiting because there was a <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">table</span>.</sentence><sentence id="4418">There was all the Gestapo and they marking down what kind of trade you have.</sentence><sentence id="4419">What you can do?</sentence><sentence id="4420">So there was a guy -- he's already dead a long time -- he said -- Chaim Komslowski -- and he come to me, he say, "Look, I can't understand why you are here."</sentence><sentence id="4421">I say, "Why I here?</sentence><sentence id="4422">The same thing why you are here -- I'm a Jew."</sentence><sentence id="4423">But he say, "But nobody can say you are a Jew."</sentence><sentence id="4424">But the first thing he say, "Look, if you are -- I give you a little advice -- if you want to live, try to avoid any beating.</sentence><sentence id="4425">Try to avoid not to drink water, and if they going to ask you what you can do, what kind of trade you have, you say you are a carpenter."</sentence><sentence id="4426">I never was a carpenter in my life.</sentence><sentence id="4427">I was 14 years.</sentence><sentence id="4428">How could I be carpenter?So it coming my time, you know, to go before Gestapo, and, "Your number, name?" "</sentence><sentence id="4429">No name," I say, "79630." "</sentence><sentence id="4430">What is your trade?"</sentence><sentence id="4431">So I say, "I'm a carpenter" so the Gestapo, the Gestapo say, "What?</sentence><sentence id="4432">What?</sentence><sentence id="4433">You are a carpenter?</sentence><sentence id="4434">You so young.</sentence><sentence id="4435">You're a carpenter?"</sentence><sentence id="4436">I say, "I'm sorry.</sentence><sentence id="4437">I was learning carpenter."</sentence><sentence id="4438">So they put me with the carpenters.</sentence><sentence id="4439">It was good, but I have a couple Polack, the son of a bitch -- I'm sorry -- some murderer.</sentence><sentence id="4440">So I go to the, you know, to the <span class="BUILDING">barrack</span> to work things like a carpenter, and they give me a stick and they say, you make a broom.</sentence><sentence id="4441">I don't know how to do that.</sentence><sentence id="4442">I never saw a carpenter, like, you know, how to make it round.</sentence><sentence id="4443">I don't know how.</sentence><sentence id="4444">So, nobody want to show me because they were scared and this bitch come in and he say, "You not a carpenter.</sentence><sentence id="4445">You" -- and they start to hit me, to kick me, to hit me.</sentence><sentence id="4446">There was -- an SS was sitting there.</sentence><sentence id="4447">So he come in and ask him, "Hey, why do you hit him?"</sentence><sentence id="4448">So he say, "Because he was lying.</sentence><sentence id="4449">He is not a carpenter."</sentence><sentence id="4450">So he tell him, "You let him go."</sentence><sentence id="4451">So he called me and he say, "Here, you have the cans, you are going to wash the cans.</sentence><sentence id="4452">You can clean the <span class="SPATIAL_OBJ">toilet</span>."</sentence><sentence id="4453">And this was my luck.</sentence><sentence id="4454">So times like I say you have some Germans that was.... Conclusion of interview.</sentence></p></dialogue>
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