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ANNE RESNIK November 24, 1996

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Dr. Ann Resnick conducted by Amy Rubin on November 25, 1996, in Washington, DC. This is tape one, side A.

Would you please tell me your name now and at birth?

A: My name is Ann, my birth name is Hertzog and my married name is Resnick and I combine it by being Ann Hertzog Resnick.

Q: When and where were you born?

A: I was born in Hindenberg which is considered now Germany, Eastern Germany, and I birth date is stated November 1, 1939.

Q: What was the make up of your family?

A: I was born into a middle to upper class family. My father was a political activist, he was a journalist. My mother was running a Textile distribution business. I had an older brother, we were a very well to do happy family.

Q: What are the the names of your family members?

A: My fathers name was Benjamin, my mothers name was Sara, my brothers name was Joshua.

Q: Do you have any memories of living in Hindenberg?

A: I memories of Hindenberg are practically zero. I don't remember the city at all. My father being a political activist was persecuted much earlier than the general Jewish population. He was constantly in hiding and at certain times they would storm the house and take him away for short periods of time. So they decided to escape Germany and go to Poland and that was Eastern Poland where my mothers family lived and also my fathers family resided in the same city. My mother's family owned a textile mill and they were distributors for textiles as well as had the retail store. My recollection of that plays a very vivid they were very happy days even for the fact we were displaced from our home. My grandparents and the siblings of my mothers and father were living in a very large home, within that there were like apartments where my aunts

and uncles were living and I had a lot of cousins. We used to play together. Early restrictions were started to impose upon us as the Germans were storming Poland, but relatively it was a happy time for me.

Q: Let me just ask you a little bit about the happy or happier times and where exactly where you do you know where this was in Poland?

A: The city was small the name was Shotcouf and we were living on the out skirts of that city and the place was called Yelganetza.

Q: So before there were to many restrictions were you was your family practicing religious traditions and customs?

A: My family was conservative, we adhered to all the holidays. My parents were going occasionally to the Synagogue on Saturday and they were considered quote unquote a cultural family. I learned Hebrew, I love the Hebrew songs and music and in general I was raised in the Jewish traditional life and I loved it.

Q: Were you mostly around other Jews at the time?

A: No not not specifically because my family was waiting with non-Jews. So I used to play a lot with all kinds of children of different faiths and when the restrictions were imposed upon us the mere fact that I couldn't play with the non-Jewish children made a big impact upon me. I do remember wanting to play with a certain child that I like very much and prior to the war we were very good friends and as I approached her one day the mother pulled that little girl away she said "Oh no you can't play with her any more she is no good she is a Jew", and the little girl said "What is a Jew, she is my friend", and that thats when I really started feeling different. It was also the fact that I couldn't play on the play ground that mainly our activities were restricted to our house, with my coursins being in the same situation it made me already feel that some thing bad is coming upon us. We used to play down in the celler in the dark places, mainly inside the house.

Q: Do you have an image of how old you were at this time?

A: I would, think five, five years, five, six years like at an age preschool age where you know were jump, hop scotching and playing those type of games.

Q: So you were able to play for a while before everything was really disrupted and even though the war had already started?

A: Well, I real yes, I, we were relatively off, better off than other families because of the fact of a although all the goods were confiscated and a business was removed and given away to non- Jewish citizens my grandparents and parents were able to still hide some of the goods and that way they kept up secret trades with the a farmers in the villages and the obtain food, in order to obtain food so were were not initially totally starving. I remember we used to disguise ourselves a wearing shawls and peasant cloths and at night to to the villages and carry these good in exchange for food and many times these farmers would take there goods and not give us the farmers food and we would come back empty handed. But I used to look forward to going on these excursions it was an adventure and for a child it was a mysteries way of sneaking through the dark streets in the evening in a disguise away. This was going on for a short period of time until a they were posting all kinds of curfews and threatening with being killed if we left certain time. The swearing the white bands with blue star and it became much more restrictive.

Q: Did all of your normal daily life activities then become disrupted?

A: Yes, that when when gradually gradually newer restrictions were announced and I remember still the sound the drums where at a city employee would come out and run to a square city square and listen to the announcements. What we can do and what we can not do and all the restrictions and so on so. It it it became gradually more difficult to live, also big impact on us when they started bringing Jews from different countries like Hungry. Suddenly they brought hundreds of Jews and into the synagog where they camped out there and these people were poorly malnourished. They have no food they have no clothing they have to leave suddenly, and thats when we realized that a actually there is a war and that we are going to be involved, by probably being displaced also.

Q: Where you frightened at this time?

A: I was I, can not describe the feeling of a child the because I just experienced these restrictions as a matter of fact. This is what it is you can't go to school, you can't play, you can't you don't have much food, you can't go outside on certain days. You the windows have to be shut, the doors have to be shut. We we each member of the family was assigned to sit guard behind the window. Lets say 12 hours a day there was a exchange each member was taking a turn and there was fear. There was anxiety and there was an air of uncertainty. You didn't know what tomorrow might bring. It it it was a kind of a day to day life, moment to moment really. Along with restrictions I know they form a Unionrod which was a collection of elders and my my uncle was part of that. Unionrod and through him we were learning some of the horrors that were going on in the larger cities not to distant from us. There was our only connection to the outside world.

Q: What did your parents tell you or what did they try to explain to you at this time?

A: They didn't, they did not tell me much. I used to hear, stories of the old good days when the Kaiser was alive. World war one and the excitement then they the excitement adventures of wars and I kind of thought that was a really neat thing to be able to wonder from country to country and a see soldiers fighting and so on. And so I imagined that to be the same way. Little did I know that this war was going to be directed against me. My image of a war was soldiers against soldiers not soldiers against children. We really were not, as children we were not prepared for anything realistic the adults probably knew and I used to hear them talk about killings and death and so on but, as children we did not know what to expect.

Q: Did you hear anything about Hitler specifically?

A: Oh, yes that was mentioned a lot and I remember the adults talking why doesn't Roosevelt do something about it. And more why doesn't the world organize against Hitler and why don't they try to to to help us to get out of this misery here. But thats as far as I could understand.

Q: Where you living in a getto in Chorkof, or you were always outside the town of Chorkof?

A: We were living outside Chorkof at at only for a brief period of time. What happened was that soon after they formed the Unionrod we heard of Acktunin an action being a a being performed

in all cities around us. Well one day my uncle came running from that Unionrod screaming at us to disberse something terrible is going to happen. He didn't know what but nothing good and to run away, just get out of the house I don't want to see you. That was the beginning of the extermination of our town. I remember my mother grabbed me she said "Lets go lets run", some of the other members ran down the we had a very big celler and they ran down there and my mother grabbed me and said "Lets go." So we went outside of the city falling on our floor until we reached some farm farmers houses we heard shots very soon, very near by we hid in stacks of hay from house to house and the shots were coming closer and closer , we knew we had to move fast, we could only move at night or in the dark. We crawled to house until we started hearing voices, these were Jewish members of the city carring dead bodies to a near by cemetery. We kept on moving farther and farther away until the lamenting shots became much more distant and pretty soon quieted down. We stayed in a hay stack at a farmers house over night. The space was so small and so tight, that I remember laying there over night doubled over until early morning when the farmers left for the fields. We crawled out of there and the bright day light really blinded us and we stretched out and was pretty quite and peaceful and then we decided to move back to watch the town. We came back and a deadly silence greeted us there was blood and dead bodies in the street. And we came back to our house and the house was totally ransacked the windows were broken, there was nobody there, we sat on the floor. Pretty soon some members emerged from the celler and they were telling us how the Germans were searching homes and killing people and lucky they didn't discover them in the celler. My father who used to be in hiding all the time escaped last minute and hid in a village. And then when he returned, upon his return he was sure that we were all killed. My uncle who was in the Unionrod was a witness to all these killings and death. At that time my brother who a was not a direct member of the Unionrod, but my uncle use to keep around him there because he thought it a much safer place. Was taken from the Unionrod and he was made to gather all the dead bodies into the villages square and then he was lined up and taken away with the transport. Later on some of the farmers was telling us they stood and watched and they saw the Jews marching

towards the railway station and they saw my brother along side my grandfather march along without a speigel to their death. My uncle described the scene when they lined them up he was pointing with his sad eyes towards him like making a gester rescue me, get me out of this line, but he couldn't. One of the Jewish elders tried to pull away a little girl out of the line, his own litle daughter, and he was shot on the spot. After that and a few other action occured, they wiped out the total town. The few left over people and among them we were part of the left over population was transported to a city called Lutrouch.

Q: I just want to ask you a little bit more about your brother, can you tell me what kind of relationship you had had with him before he was taken away?

A: My brother was older than I quite a few years I don't know totally how many for sure like five and I always looked up to him, he was like my God. For a child I used to love to brush his cloths and shine his shoes, looking for his approval and he was joining always organizations like Shamar Zier, and I always love when he took me by his hand, took me to these meetings. I remember Saturdays when he took me there, there was always singing going on and he was a very good student and in school and he used to tutor other children and I always go along with him and he play the violin and I always hope that some day I would, it was a very close relationship.

Q: How did you react to hearing that he was taken away?

A: I was totally devastated, I kind of refused to believe he's really dead. I always have the image that he escaped somewhere from a train. I went into total isolation, I did not speak to anybody, I wore black cloths. As a child I associated that already with black cloths, I wouldn't eat, I just totally went into morning more than any adult. It was a devastating experience for me and I totally refused to acknowledge that he's not there. I remember even some how get a hold of a piece of chocolate, I don't know how it ever came to my hands, I refuse to eat it I was saving it when he comes back for him.

Q: Do you think that hearing about him being killed, made you more afraid at that time. Did that change any of your feelings about the war and the war time?

A: I really didn't hear that he was killed. I knew that "They were taken away to camps." And the adults knew that there was no return from those camps, but I as a child refused to believe that. My image was always that he escaped and he will come back. As far as fear I personally, I can not describe the feelings of fear. It was a life of living from moment to moment and I I I just have never had that feeling of fear. I felt that I have to meet what comes and any challenge that will come I should surmount it. It is amazing to me that as a child during those times before this action and this devastating action that took place, my main concern and regret was I couldn't go to school. I couldn't play, I couldn't go to nursery school that was my main depravation I experienced during those years. Not so much food lack of food or lack of cloths it was more lack of freedom, lack of playing of interaction of other children.

Q: Had you gone to school at all by this time?

A: [had gone to a little nursery school, which I remember just a play school. As far as learning to read, I was all taught by osmoses, my father used to read to me because he was in hiding I would go down in the cellar. He would read to me, he would sing songs to me, tried to teach me Russian. That was my main education was underground education.

Q: What languages were you speaking?

A: I was speaking German and Polish not as fluent and then my father taught me Russian, and some Hebrew. Ya I remember he taught me also Hebrew songs, poetry and Russian poetry, he read me instead of children stories, he read me stories tell stories Thats what I grew up upon, war and crime and that kind of thing, and not Cinderella stories.

Q: When you were near this town Shortkof, did you experience any contact with Germans or did you experience any anti Semitism yourself?

A: Oh yes, yes very much so, even as a child I knew I was different, even at nursery school.

There was a time "Religion" and we as Jews would not, as Jewish children would not go, that hour we had to stay out and that by itself made us feel different and bad. I personally was treated a little bit better and I don't understand why maybe because my family was more influential. In the area I was well known but I used to hear all the time Shid Shid, which in Polish is Jew and I

felt a different treatment by the teachers, I definitely saw that I more rejoiced in fact in the Hebrew language and the Hebrew spirit and didn't dwell much of the other side of the a being maltreated as a Jew.

Q: Did you ever go to your parents and ask them about being called a Jew in that way, in that derogatory way?

A: I just absorbed it, I didn't, I didn't ask questions. I learned it on my own.

Q: Did you have friends and were they always Jewish?

A: No and that thats when I started feeling that there was different, I had Jewish and non-Jewish friends. I had a lot of friends and I was a leader. When we were playing I was always the leader and I started feeling this difference by the non-Jewish friends turning against me, and I even remember the farmers or the villagers used to come to take some of the goods from us and some of the children would come along. Later on those children would turn away and wouldn't speak to me, gee why you come to take all of our goods and you still dispise us and don't like us. One of these little girls said "Because your Jew and no good", I did feel that badly but I had to make it out on my own and understand it on my own.

Q: You were starting to that you were then taken to a ghetto in Bochoch?

A: We were ordered to within four hours to leave the town, take what you can in your hands and out. I think we were taken into a horse and wagons and driven to we didn't know where we were going and after some hours we arrived at this town was a very depressing place. I remember coming in a wagon there were cobble stone streets was no lights, houses were dark the streets were filthy and smelling, gray cobble stone and we were taken to a house, which was like a two story house, there were some inhabitants there already. There was a dark corridor there were a few rooms assigned to families, there were like eight to 14 people to a room and there was like a communal type of a life. There was a two story house there was only one bathroom on the lower floor and I remember the lines they used to be lined up for that bathroom. I was always thought gee what if someone was constipated and got stuck there and all these people still waiting in line.

In a way it wasn't totally totally a destructive life there because we lived together because there

were some children from different families that we interacted right away. Except now we started to experience food shortage and much more limited freedom of movement. We were not allowed to leave that house, toward evening one member of a room snuck out and brought back some food. I remember that there was like a black market and my father did not look Jewish at all and he would be the one to leave the house and venture out, he grew a beard and mustache and looked very much Aryan. And he would come back and bring food. Many a time we didn't know if he was going to come back because he could have been caught. | still remember specifically in those times members were appointed to sit guard, and I was a little bit older and I was to sit with an adult, looking out through the crack in the window, which was totally covered with a sheets, looking out across the street was the Aryan side. And I used to children walk and children play and I just couldn't imagine through a children's eye what it would be for me to be able to go across there and just walk. Thats when I really started to experience [end of side one, tape 1]

Q: Would you continue to tell me a little bit about your experiences shortly after you were in the ghetto and how it felt for you?

A: By being thrown into that open ghetto, L, and being totally limited to a certain place, while looking out the window and seeing the other side across the street, which was the Aryan side and seeing people walk freely and children playing and I was totally isolated and deprived of the sun and the moon. I started to understand what it meant to be a Jew under the Nazi regime.

Q: Were you worried for your life or for your family's lives at that time?

A: At that time we, I specifically, became aware that life is very finite and we actually are in danger of losing our lives in the days or weeks to come.

Q: How old do you think you were at the time, what, what's your image of yourself at the time?

A: My, I cannot specify my age but my image of, was that of a 10 year old, going on 25, very serious about life and death. I saw my grandmother die and she died a natural death on the bed and we, in our home nobody spoke about death. I remember that night, the children were placed in one room only, I guess to protect us from the visual image of a person actually dying and

taking the last breath. And the adults and the children, the, my mother's brothers and sisters gathered that night around the bed and we heard the heavy breathing of my grandmother, but we didn't say anything, we just lay there motionless and I cannot speak for what the others heard, but I still remember now, it becomes so vivid in my mind, the way she was really gasping for the last breath and I remember my father, who was her son-in-law, asking for forgiveness and I remember her asking, "Why, you didn't do anything wrong, I have nothing to forgive you." It's the first time that I really speak of that. And I remember as a child hearing that. Nobody spoke anything about it and the following day, naturally it couldn't be funeral, but I remember my uncle, her son and some other men from the house were carrying her body wrapped in a white sheet. I did not know, we were not told where they were going and what they are going to do with the body and we never knew whether they were going to come back alive because they had to leave the compound. This was the first time that I spoke about it. Life went on, very restricted, if you can call it life. My father came to realize that it's time to do something about survival and his features were not Jewish and he grew a mustache and he looked totally Aryan, so he used to escape out of this restricted compound to venture on the outside and as I mentioned, to bring us food. One day he took the freedom of leaving for a day and wandered into a village and it was Easter day, Easter morning. While wandering through this village and trying to get some food, he started to be suspected as a Jew. At least he was a foreigner there, nobody knew him, said, "What are you doing here, something suspicious about you." So he started running to different areas, where he found himself on Easter morning in front of a church.

The members of the church were let out after the Easter sunrise ceremony and he was so deep in pain and so much alone, that his heart started crying and he started singing Ailee, ailee(ph), the song from Yom Kippur services, with a loud, strong voice. He used to love to sing. The Christians walked out and started asking, "Who are you and why are you singing here, why didn't you go inside?" And he started saying, "My voice sounds better on the outside and didn't you hear the priest sing that?" And these people stood around and listening to his singing and

then walking away, nodding their heads. It was ironic that he was a Jew, hiding his identity, singing a, a holy Jewish song in front of a Christian audience.

Q: When he came back and told you about that incident, was he very worried about going out again? Were you very worried about him?

A: We were worried, but we couldn't sit and philosophically worry. By being on the outside, he was more in touch with reality. He picked up messages, he knew that the war is coming closer and closer. And when he returned from the outside, he knew that something has to be done and started to organize the men in the compound to build bunkers, hiding places. So, immediate action was taken to build bunkers within the big house or compound. They organized and searched the house and the ground and finally they found what they thought was a great tunnel under the house and constructed a rock that blocked off a certain area. And that was deep tunnel leading to nowhere, that's what they thought and for days they were digging and constructing that bunker. At the same place they built some alternate places, hiding places. One day, very soon, the guard, quote unquote, the guard, was sitting in front of the windows spotted some activity going on on the street with German soldiers popping out on the corners. The signal was given for us to run to the bunker. It was amazing that prior to that we used to practice every day, how fast we, it has to take for us to run down the stairs and climb up those rocks and one elder was standing and timing us. Well, time came to hide and we started hearing shots. People became panicky and one was climbing up on the other too fast, enter that bunker and moved the rocks. I remember there were sick people on the second floor and nobody could carry them down, cause everybody was running towards the bunker and they were left in their beds. The place was very small and the people were crowded together, there was nowhere to move, you couldn't breathe. But unfortunately it didn't last long, pretty soon we heard, started hearing shots and German voices shouting rousse(ph), rousse(ph), which meant get out, get out. We couldn't believe that they discovered us so soon, we were so convinced that this was such a safe bunker.

What it turned out to be is that the tunnel was leading across the street underground, below some of the stores on the Aryan side and there was the barber shop and when we were digging that

tunnel, they used to hear the voices of the Jewish people building that bunker and as soon as this action started, the barber right away notified the Germans and the Polish militia, that there were Jews hiding right underneath and they came straight, without having to search long. They found the rock, they opened the rock and urged us to come out, but nobody would move, so they started shooting into the bunker and throwing some gas rockets, whatever it was. People started to move back, towards the wall, there was screaming of children, people bleeding from these wounds inflicted upon them by the shots. There were a few sick people laying right near the entrance, they were shot on the spot. And I remember pulling my mom and my dad and said, "Let's go." And even at that moment, I was thinking of my brother and I said, "Let's go, we'll join now Joshua." On the way out they were beating everybody with clubs. People became disoriented. There was blood running through their faces. They were lined, these soldiers were lined out along the corridor, lining up the people and beating them at the same time, so they will be, came so helpless and disoriented and did not offer any resistance. Any resistance would have been met with a bullet anyhow, so there was no point. I remember spotting my uncle, standing there and his blood was dripping from his head and we could not do anything and we were ready to go. I stood with my parents and I spotted a door and I tried the door and it cracked opened and I pulled my mother and she says, "Why are you pulling me?" I said, I pointed with my finger, with my thumb, "Go over there, go over." And then I pulled my father and then I, I pulled them in and we went up the stairs, we went up the stairs and there were bodies laying up there on the bed, with the blood dripping down and went into a room and each of us hid under the bed in a puddle of blood. And then we heard the lamenting voices from downstairs and pretty soon it became more quiet. Suddenly we heard footsteps running up the stairs and a voice saying in Polish, "I saw you running up there, I know you are hiding. Stay under the bed until it becomes quiet and then go down and hide again." And he disappeared. As it became quiet we emerged from under the beds and we went into a different hiding that my father constructed. It was located on top of a toilet which pretended to be like a ceiling. Pretty soon the Germans and the Polish militia returned with some other citizens, to remove the dead bodies and to do a last

minute search. They entered the toilet room where we were hiding and instead of looking up, they looked down and there was a child that fell through the toilet seat, it was a constructed toilet, not like we have here and this child was deep in feces and the soldiers were standing there and laughing and one said, "Don't waste a bullet, she'll drown in the feces anyhow, " and walked away. We remained breathless up on top, until all the bodies were removed and the doors were closed. Later we emerged from our hiding and there were a few other people that survived in that same room.

Q: Who had you been living with first of all, in the ghetto?

A: My parents, my mother's family and my father's brothers and there were people from other parts of different, other parts of cities and different villages that were brought there, into that compound. It wasn't a really compound of many houses, it was one huge house.

Q: How many people were living in the one house with you?

A: There were like, total I think there were 120 and about, I think the majority, I think 90 percent were wiped out, killed off during that one actione(ph). I remember as it quieted down, these people were marched out, the outside of the city, but not too far away and there was a mass grave being dug by some of the militia people, and all our families, there was, _, the other people from that compound and other compounds in the ghetto, were shot into that mass grave. That's where most of our family was killed. There were only four members, out of about a total of 45 or 50 family members remained.

Q: Who were the ones surviving?

A: Surviving was myself and my parents and one of my uncles.

Q: Had you seen dead bodies like that before?

A: Never, no. No, only I heard it from description. When they had the first actione(ph) in our little city _, but I've never been in a trapped bunker. I've never seen people falling right in front of me, shot to death. I've never seen people laying in bed with the blood dripping down on me. This was a horrible experience. But even during that experience, I did not lose my strength and will to survive. Because it was this little girl that really saved her parents, by being alert

enough to recognize and realize that this door was an opening to a life or to at least an escape for this time.

Q: What did you do immediately after this actione(ph)?

A: Well, as we were lucky enough to escape the second time in that toilet, hiding, we stayed in that house for a day or two until everything quieted down and pretty soon [pause], we remained in the house, all the four of us, wondering what's going to happen next. We did not remain for long alone. Few days after this total destruction, new transports were coming in from nearby cities and villages. These were new resettlers. The house was filled again with Jews from all over the area. Some urban, some rural, people that had only in common by being persecuted by the Nazis because of being Jewish. They came from all walks of life. We befriended one family that was a farming, a Jew from a farm that had a little girl my age and we became friends. My father, being again mobile and circling around the non-Jewish quarters, was aware that the war is coming to an end and this is a time, a final action that they final solution of the Jewish question is in sight. And his only way of escape would be to do it now, otherwise we are doomed to die.

We were lucky enough that we were able to save gold and silver coins that we carried in our clothing, hidden in seams. And my father approached this, befriended a family, his name was Abraham and told them that he would offer him money in order for both of the families to escape. His idea was, because Abraham knew all these farmers and had such great faith in his village, that he would send Abraham to find a hiding place. The plan was to divide our families so that in case somebody's killed, one member at least, will remain. Abraham went back to the farm and was to come up with three hiding places. He left, but we never knew whether he would return or not. After some time he did return and announce that he found a place and the children would go first. Thus it was decided that I and his little girl would follow him. The eve of one day, we were to follow Abraham through fields and paths, through forests, moving forward through the night and hiding in the fields during the day, in order not to be spotted by farming people in the fields. We crawled on our four, until Abraham decided that he was going to venture out and find a farming house and we stayed in the fields until he returns. The two little

girls remained laying there, waiting for Abraham to return. It took days til he returned and announced that he found a place, we ought to follow him and just run into a barn, in towards the evening, without telling anybody or speaking to anybody. That night he let us into a barn, we climbed up on a high stack of hay and Abraham said goodbye to us and left us there. And if, if we only knew that we are in a barn, but we had no concept where we were, we had no image whether this was a city, a village, a town, a farmer's house. We had no concept what's on the outside. We could only tell day from night by the sound of the environment, like the crack of the dawn, the rooster, the rooster would crow, or towards the evening the farmers would return from the fields. The only other being was the horse in the barn and we knew day from night when the horse would return from work in the field. And the morning when the farmer would come and feed the horse and get him ready to go to the field.

Q: What did you bring with you when you left the ghetto to go into hiding?

A: We brought nothing. We could not carry anything, we had to crawl on our feet and hands and we certainly could not carry anything. We remained laying on top of that high stack of hay, which was piled up, up to the roof of the barn. Our food consisted of a morning ration of water and a piece of dry bread. The farmer would bring the water, a bucket of water to feed the horse and out of that he poured some for us. He had a hiding place for the ladder and he would quickly assemble the ladder and with a sound, with a signal of a cough, he would approach the haystack and quickly place the, some water and a piece of bread and immediately descend. This repeated itself at night. The only change of meal was on a holiday or a Sunday, where instead of water, we would get some milk. We could hear the children outside playing in the yard and we were never sure whether they were going to run into the barn and play, although the farmer made sure that the ladder is not in sight. The only companion was the horse. We laid stretched out on the, on top of that haystack, two little girls, covered under a blanket that blended in with the hay, not speaking to each other in order to conserve energy. We could not stand up, there was room only to sit or lay and thus was our days going, flowing in from day to day. We could not tell time, we could not tell season, we just existed up there.

Q: How long do you think you were in hiding in that place?

A: I cannot tell. I really can't. I don't know if it was months, or more than a month, or weeks, no concept.

Q: Did you think about your parents a lot?

A: We were, but we had other things that were happening. We were both alternating at night to retrieve our food, by crawling forward towards the haystack and one night I, it was my turn to do so and I reached out for the bucket and reached too far and by holding the piece of bread, tumbling over and falling off that big haystack. The horse, hearing that noise, got up and made a lot of commotion. I laid there and cold, bleeding, the floor was cement. Lisa, my friend up there could not help me, we could not speak, not make noise. The farmer came in and saw me laying there and did not say anything, just walked out again, in order not to arouse suspicion. We, I wondered what is going to happen. I couldn't move. The following day the farmer came back and placed a ladder, motioning for me to climb back up. I was too much in pain that I couldn't move, he'd finally found some kind of harness that placed me in it and pulled my up and thus returned me to the top of the hiding place. After that he let Abraham know that he wants us out.

Q: Can I ask you a few questions about being in hiding? You said that you didn't want to arouse suspicion by talking, but did you ever talk with your friend who you were right next to, all that time?

A: Not, I don't remember any talking going on between us at all, we were just laying quietly, I guess sharing each other's pain and dreams.

Q: What were you dreaming about?

A: Someday, I remember dreaming of having, imagining a bowl of soup and a matzo ball floating on it and that's justifying swallowing that dry piece of bread and water.

Q: Were you thinking a lot about food? What else were you thinking about?

A: At that time, I think most of the time we were, I was just imagining a hot meal. I could not think of anything else.

Q: What about being around the horse, what was that like?

A: The horse became our savior and our guardian angel. We were always, I was always wondering whether he understood, they knew what was going on, but in certain ways he protected us from being thrown out of the barn. He formed a shield that night when I fell off and I was sure that the farmer was going to throw me out that night, just throw me into the fields and the horse gathered some hay around me, laid down, embraced me half-circle and I laid down on top of him, feeling the warmth of his body and, and the warm breath and the soft, friendly eyes, as if he were saying, "I'm not going to let you die." And he refused to eat and drink until the farmer would place me back on the haystack and leave us some food, and only then he drank his portion.

End of tape 1.

Tape 2

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Dr. Anne Resnick, conducted by Amy Rubin, on November 25", 1996 in Washington, D.C. This is tape two, side A.

Would you continue telling me a little bit about the relationship you had with the horse in this barn including the name. Did you give the horse a name?

A: No, we did not. We did not and we didn't, we never spoke to the horse, was the farmer used to, the time when he placed our ration up on the barn, he used to use his conversation with the horse as a disguise for the noise that he was making placing the ladder back and forth. But we just exchanged glances at each other and the, the eyes, they were so sympathetic and so soft and so warm towards us. We knew that we had a friend in that horse.

Q: The farmer was not Jewish, is that correct?

A: Correct. The farmer was not Jewish and oddly enough, in all these days when he was bringing us the food, the exchange was so swift and fast that we never saw the face of the, of, we never saw his face. We just used to see a hand stretching out, placing that food, that piece of bread and water and just retrieve right away. There was never an exchange of words between us.

Q: Did you feel that he was nice to you?

A: It was like a mysterious kind of figure that was representing this man that never spoke to us yet must have been sympathetic and warm by doing this, endangering his own life and scheming all these activities, hiding it from his children. His wife was a, a, a companion and planned it along with him but every time he had to embark upon this bringing the food to us, it had to be planned out.

The moment had to be seized just at the right time when no neighbor would spot him, when no child would, would miss him. It was a constant awareness of danger and way of protecting us and yet at the same time, not, also protecting his own family. The danger was that if he, if we would be discovered there, his own well-being would be in danger.

Q: Were you scared a lot of the time being there"?

A: I, I cannot describe it as being scared but it was, we were always on guard. We knew that it's only, it would take only one moment to be discovered either by a child or by a neighbor, by

somebody walking into the barn and suspecting something. And as a matter of fact, that's what happened. Through some mysterious way, the farmer, not beknown to us or to himself became a suspect of hiding, quote unquote, hiding Jews. One day when he was out in the field working, we suddenly heard some suspicious sounds, loud sounds of militia approaching the barn. Within a moment or two, we realized that this is danger lurking right behind the barn and what do we do?

With a glance at each other we knew that we have to escape and how do you escape? There's no ladder and we are way up high there and those voices are coming closer and closer. We jumped off that big high haystack and by some miracle we got up from that cold stone floor and ran through half-open door and behind another haystack and the yard and then into the wide fields. Just in that moment as we went through that yard, the militia was approaching the gate and entered the barn.

There was loud noises and singing and voices of joy assuming that they are gonna catch us. Well we were right behind. They ran into the farmer's house, ransacked his house and did not find us.

We in turn laid in the field. It was broad daylight and the sun was piercing through the high comfields. We laid there until the evening approach, approached. We're afraid to go too far away from the village, yet by staying too close, we were in danger of being discovered. Now, and by going too far we'd have, we would have lost our way back to the same house. That night we moved back and ran back into that barn. There was no ladder so we couldn't climb up so we just laid there on the floor. The farmer suspected that we would return and came in at night into the barn and found us there. He mumbled something and then place the ladder and we climbed up. However, he was not too happy because next morning no food was delivered to us. That following night, Abram heard in his hiding place that, that farmer's house was ransacked and he was sure that we got caught and killed. And he came to find bodies in that barn. He came and sat there at night and didn't see any blood on the floor so he thought maybe they took us away and killed us in the fields. He sat in that barn quiet, assuming that the farmer will come in and he did but his only greeting was that to take us away, right away he will not subject his family to danger. And he wanted us out. Despite all the pleading, Abram had won his confidence by giving him a day or two to go out and find another hiding place. He agreed to wait "til Abram returns next day. Next day Abram never did

come back. We did not know what to expect. We thought maybe he was killed. However, after a few days, Abram came back and took us. He took us to, not find, not being to able to find a new hiding place, he divided us up and took us to where my parents were and took his little girl to where he was hiding at. I was very weak and quite ill and it did me well be staying with my parents.

Q: What was it like to see them?

A: It was a shock because I myself did not see myself. There were no mirror, you couldn't tell how I looked. I was shocked by their appearance in rags, unwashed, not well nourished as you can imagine. And they were shocked by my appearance. I was totally emaciated, unkept, in rags and I could tell from the expression on their face that I was not a very well sight to look at.

Q: Had you known that they were also in hiding?

A: Yes. It was a planned situation that we knew that they were in hiding. We did not know where and we had no concept of the geographic location of the whole village. But we did know that they were alive and as the plan was, to divide us up, it was not a surprise that they were close by. The hiding place they were at was designated by their farmer as only for two people and when the farmer walked in and saw an additional person he said, "No way. I did not agree to three." We tried to bribe him and give him some more gold. He took it and then next day changed his mind.

He said, "You gotta go." And so again, Abram was caught between having to take us out of this hiding place and not finding another. We were chased out, by now it was turning cold and winter snow was on the ground. I was very weak, practically unable to walk and Abram was just trying to help by finding another place which was no avail. I was begging him to leave me there on the cold white snow. I could not walk anymore. The wind was fierce in an open field, the snow was blowing, and I, all I wanted is to be left alone. But Abram said, "As God is my witness, I'm not gonna let you die." And he carried me on his shoulders and he was alternating. My father did a little bit carrying and we wandered days in that bitter cold in the white snow until we spotted a dark object far away. Abram ventured out by leaving us on the snow and moving forward to examine what it was, came back few feet, telling us that it looked like it's a house and that we have no choice but try to go towards it. We chose to wait there in the snow while he himself ventured out. He

dared to walk into that house and came out alive, coming back to us and carrying us, carrying me back into that house. It turned out to be an isolated little hut in the prairie and the cold snow, a very very poor farmer allowing us, agreeing to take us in. We entered the barn which was totally empty.

This time there was neither a horse nor a cow nor hay. We lay down on the cold floor just waiting.

The farmer was very poor. It was one of these, God's people really, that had nothing worldly around him. He had children, they had no shoes, therefore stayed inside the house. Therefore the danger of them running into the barn was diminished. He explained to us that he had a cow that died because he could not feed her so he had no milk. His crop died in that cold weather and he had no bread and the gold that we gave him was no avail to him because he could not go into the market to buy anything because he was known to be the poorest soul in the area. So on a Sunday we would have some potatoes but he was so poor that he couldn't afford any salt. But he was good-hearted and really sympathized with our fate. For some time we stayed there until one day we heard shots.

These were very distant and we did not pay much attention until the farmer came and said, "Do you know the war's approaching. The Russians are coming nearer and nearer and they are beating the Germans and you're going to be free soon." We did not believe that. We continued to remain in the same position, very pessimistic and doubting whether we would ever get out alive from these places. One night, we heard very close shots. Prior to those shots, we heard this lamenting of human beings was was, which was so painful, was like these lamenting cats that sometime cry at night. It was so close that we thought that it's approaching us and soon engulf us in it. I remember thinking is this how you die, by hearing these voices coming out of nowhere? Pretty soon, we heard some voices knocking, some sound knocking at the door of the farmer's house and later we learned that Abraham, his little girl and his wife, at the last minute prior to the Russian Army approaching the village, were taken out by one of the farmers that they were hiding at. Abram and his wife and daughter were dragged out into the open field, close to this farmer's house and shot to death. Thus was the end of Abraham after all these wanderings. After all these narrow escapes, the friendly farmer, the farmer that Abraham fed and provided clothing and provided food for his family and his animals, thus was the end of Abraham, shot by his own quote unquote friendly farmer. The man

that was totally a stranger to us, our farmer, explained to us that the knocking at the door was one of the militia men that asked him to go out and bury those bodies. The farmer described these three bodies laying in blood and the blood was still warm, melting the white snow. And the ground was so frozen that he couldn't dig any holes. After while, he just had to leave them there and cover them up with the snow. Days after, the farmer came back to the barn saying, "You know, the end is here.

The Russians are coming." We did not believe it. He said, "Look, you can come into my house." His house really consisted of one room where five people were living, three children and his wife.

His wife was ill and was in bed. But we did not dare leave that barn until one knock at the door convinced us that freedom is here. He came in, the farmer came in, just refused to close that door and dragged that, dragged us into the house. By then, soldiers came in and he explained us that the Russians are here. The Russians indeed were there. They were friendly. My father, teaching himself the Russian language, started talking to them with tears in his eyes. My mother, I remember, was kissing their hands and the Russian soldiers were patting her saying, "Devie (ph), devie (ph)," which means no, no, don't have to do that. We are here to liberate you. And then they saw me and they lifted me up and said indeed, that's a yehvooshkod (ph), that's a little girl. They saw that we barely were breathing and embraced us and brought in cases of food and prepared us for departure. We knew that we couldn't stay in that house any longer, that we had to move forward because the battlefield was right there. There were bombs exploding all around us. The Russians dropped us off at the nearest village and despite the fact that quote unquote we were liberated, the danger was lurking behind each and every house. The Ukrainian population was not very friendly to survivors. They were trying to kill us at every moment that we took a step in that village. At one moment, a, one of the villagers lifted his, an ax, trying to chop off our heads, when a Russian tank rolled by and noticed that and shot the man on the spot. I remember the villagers standing on the streets and pointing at us and we had to protect ourselves by hiding behind the tanks that were rolling by. I remember my father going over to one of the villagers saying, pointing to me saying, "You see, she doesn't have any horns on her head. She's just a little girl like yours." And then the farmer spit in his face. The Russian Army was really the key to our survival. They took us

in their tanks despite the limitations and regulations not to pick up civilians. They brought us from village to village and until the, a certain destination where they could not move on any longer. They placed me in a farmer's home and instructed the farmer to light the fire in the oven, made room for me to stay in a warm place, brought in cases of Spam and ordered the farmer to feed us, warning them that they'll come back in a few days and they wanted to find us alive. Meanwhile, the battle was going on and we had to move on.

Q: This farmer that you were with, what nationality was he?

A: The general population there was Ukrainian but he was such a simple man, a man with a pure soul. He did not know of any nationalities, he did not know of any differences between human beings. He was just a poor soul, alive and trying to live as pure as he could.

Q: Were you with your parents with him?

A: Yes. That's how we survived, the three of us, in that one stable. That isolated, totally God- forsaken country, really. The objective was to move on and try to return to our place of origin which was Shortkoff (ph). It was not easy to move on. Everywhere we went there was cartouches (ph) and bombs and artillery. We also found ourselves in camps with soldiers around us. What was forbidden for us to stay. I remember in trying to obtain some food and going and finding a army kitchen in offering my services. I went to the cook telling him I'm gonna peel potatoes in order for him to give me some food for my parents. And he pointed a big knife towards me said, "This is not a toy for a little girl like you." And then he gave me a whole bucket of hot potatoes and I was proudly carrying it towards my parents, feeling so big and important.

Q: How old do you think you were now?

A: Gosh, you've got me. I really am totally at a loss. I lost track of time and age and I have, I totally cannot recall. I could see myself as a twelve-year-old maybe, doing all that.

Q: [""m imagining that it's probably around 1944...

A: Right.

Q: And the only record that shows your birth, you mentioned earlier as 1939. Have you reconsidered or thought that maybe that birthdate is incorrect?

A: Yes | agree and I've been trying to ponder upon that because in no way could I have been such a young tender age to do all that. And I suspect there may be a difference of four or five years between my actual birthdate and the, the date that is given in my records. This being that, when we were aiming to emigrate to the United States, we needed to have a sponsor. And being a child, I could not get a sponsor because we had to guarantee that we would not fall to welfare, that we would be able to support ourselves. The person that sponsored us, my parents, couldn't, did not find any work for me, so that I had to be younger in order to qualify to enter as a child.

Q: So I don't wanna break the flow of earlier but thank you and can you continue telling me about your experiences soon after being liberated but not yet being truly free?

A: This time was also time of trial and tribulations. The road to return to our home was not easy. It was involved with narrow escapes of bombs which were not at least, not directly directed against us.

At least this was a general war, not a war waged against three people. Three Jewish, against Jews to begin with. We finally came to our place of birth, not of birth but that's where we were living and there was no sign of the city. The total town was wiped out to the ground. There was, our home was totally nonexistent. There were some bricks, broken glass and nothing visible of what we had before. We moved into a house nearby that apparently was occupied by people that escaped in the last minute when the Russians approached because the oven was still warm and there was a fire burning in the fireplace. We established our living there for a short while. The bombs were falling nearby destroying the rest of the buildings. We stayed on trying to make contact with nearby villagers and farmers that we knew before but nobody would let us in. Nobody would speak to us.

Everybody was hostile and surprised that we survived. They even went far enough to tell us that they didn't know who we were, to get out of their property and just to go away.

Q: Did you encounter any other Jews when you returned?

A: No. When we came back, we searched for members of the family or other friends and Jewish people that lived in that town before the Nazi came and we, there was no soul around. Nobody came back. Soon enough my father got ill and was taken to a hospital which was an army hospital and...

Q: Was this, was this in the same town, the same area?

A: It was in Shortkoff (ph) which was seven miles to where we had established our home temporarily. After that I got sick and they took me to the same hospital. My father was delirious, didn't recognize me. The bomb, the bombs were falling, the hospital was shattering, was shaking, the glass was shattered. It was quite a horrible experience. Again, a little girl, this time, at least, my emotions, my fear was with me and I remember laying in that hospital bed being so afraid, closing my eyes and being ready for what will come. My fighting spirit was gone. I was resolved to die, whatever will come. Soon enough, we got better, naturally, the war moved on, the destroyed area but we were alive. We found a place to live and we went on. We lived in a house, it was halfway destroyed but one room was intact and if you opened the door, you found yourself looking out into the outside and it was an abrupt end to the wall and there was no heating. There was food available only through shipments that came from the Joint Jewish Committee distributing to areas of destruction and...

Q: Where were you living now? This new place after the hospital?

A: It was still in Shortkoff (ph). It was Shortkoff (ph) but it was occupied by the Russian Army. So it was still an area where there was little food or heating available but at least we were safe and nobody was waging against Jews. My father regained his spirit and his will to life and he started establishing some kind of life, he started trading goods on the footsteps of the house by putting out certain sundries (ph). I remember I don't know where they came from but he put out like buttons and, and all kinds of little things and soldiers would come and buy it and send it to Russia. Pencils, all kinds of frames and little pictures and toys. Pretty soon this little, little store on the footsteps of the house because a roomful of...[end of side one, tape 2]

Q: This is a U.S.H.M.M. interview with Dr. Anne Resnick, tape two, side B. Please continue telling me about Shortkoff (ph) and returning there.

A: My father started trading with the Russians and started to think of education for me. He immediately hired private tutors and there also did not forget the, the violin. And I remember going to private lessons to, carrying the violin with me, and as well as tutoring me almost ten hours a day.

Pretty soon we found a school, started to attend school and the father became a big benefactor for the school. He donated monies and goods therefore I became quote unquote a celebrity. Where every teacher knew me and they gave me special attention. This was quite flattering from a time where you were considered as total waste of humanity. I enjoyed school very much. I loved school, I loved learning. Things were turning around for us and we were trying to think of our future. During that time, very pleasant things were happening. A distant relatives of, relative of ours returned from Russia. This man was taken by the Russians during occupation of Poland and he was a very well-to-do businessman and considered as an enemy of the Soviet Union. He was taken one night to Siberia, stayed in a labor camp, survived Siberia and then released into freedom. He was in Russia for a while and then returned to the same city. However, he returned to find nobody of his family, his wife and children were killed in that compound in Boochoj (ph), lined up to the wall and killed and buried in the mass grave. There were other people coming back from Russia.

Again, everybody was hoping to find at least one member of their family, very few found anybody.

We were hoping to move on with our lives and the aim, the general aim of the Jewish population at that time was to move towards the west. We had no particular direction but we could not stay in the eastern part.

Q: Were you experiencing anti-Semitism?

A: There was anti-Semitism in the Polish population, forever. Before the war, during the war and after the war. So much so that when we moved to the west, again we came to a beautiful city which was called Vrotsluv (ph) and again my parents started a little business. Again, selling goods and selling clothing and we had a very beautiful home. This was a home that belonged to Nazis, former Nazis. These Nazis escaped and left their home and we were allowed to move in. As a matter of fact we were assigned by an organization to, to move in there. When my parents were trading in a, this was like a, a mall and during the day when I was in school then my parents were at the mall, we were robbed. My parents were taken to the house, tied up and threatened to be killed. These were Polish, Polish people, young, young gang members organized against Jews and were trying to do harm to the Jewish population. Not so much by killing them but definitely robbing them of their

goods and making their life not very pleasant for the remainder of the Jewish population. Also, I attended school which was a private which is equivalent to a high school, a lower school, middle school and high school and I think I was in the middle school but by being tutored specifically in addition to the school I was a very good student and I was a, again I felt the, the, the distance between me and the Polish students. I always had the feeling that I was not welcome there, I was not liked. The Polish students did not socialize with me. There was one more Jewish student there and so the ratio was like 98 percent, 99 percent non-Jews, and maybe one percent Jew. Was me and another young man, young child, young boy. We were excluded from, again when there was religion we had to wait outside. We could not participate in certain club activities and there was certain remarks, there were remarks made behind our backs. There was not a very friendly atmosphere in school. Despite that, I continued to really thrive and love school and be continued to move on with our lives. After the threats on my parents" life, lives, we became very active in pursuing the, pursuing the, a way to leave Europe at all and apply for immigration to the United States.

Q: Had Germany been defeated already?

A: Yes. This was the time when Germany was in ruins and defeated. And this was the time where there was movement to get the Jews out of Poland. Actually, we had to get ourselves out of Poland.

However there were organizations that were helping across the borders from Poland to Germany and this was also an activity, there was not much publicized. I cannot recall exactly how it came about but we did cross the border at night in trains. And we, our, our initial destination was Austria.

We briefly parked quote unquote in Austria. I remember the checkpoints where we were searched and went, had to go through medical exams and make sure that we not carrying any diseases to endanger the lives of the Austrian population. We stayed briefly in Vienna and it was a beautiful time for me. I loved Vienna, I loved to visit all the museums and the castles and learn about the history of that country and the music and the opera and learned the language and the customs of that country. And it was really beautiful. The, that time again, my father never forgot the education and I had private tutors again and music and violin lessons and was a great time. We continued to move

on and from Vienna we came to Salzburg. And Salzburg was again a haven for me. There's all the music and the culture and the music festival, the and we visited, I remember Bodgoshtine (ph) which was a, a summer home for Hitler. And it is a very beautiful place, unfortunately, Hitler made it his residence and that brought back bad memories and bad taste in our mouth. But, besides that, the life was pleasant. We did not stay at one place for long. We kept on moving on and moving on.

Q: Did you finally feel free when you came to Austria?

A: I, yes, and I would think we felt free because we were together in a community, not in a community per se, but in a commune with all Jewish people. They had the aim, to immigrate and to become a useful, productive citizen of a country that we were proud of. There was, between us, we had no discrimination and we, it did not have much interaction with the Austrian population other than being like a tourist. So we did feel free although it was not a normal life that we were leading.

It was not that we woke up in the morning, had to go to work and, and have a stable environment. It was again, a temporary existence but it was a pleasant one without execution and without prejudice.

Q: Did you go to the DP camp in Salzburg or where did you stay there?

A: It was not a camp and it was not called the Displaced Persons Camp. It was an assigned, also like, it wasn't barracks, but there, it was an assigned area that we had lived like in a commune. It was together with other people and we shared common bathrooms and bedrooms and shared all the joys of tourism and so on.

Q: Had your family been practicing the religious customs throughout?

A: We practiced mainly the holidays, although we had not run across real religious within that commune. Some of them were not in with the, some of them were converted Jews. These were Jewish members of families that rescued other members and then got married and she was not Jewish, he was Jewish and at the, at, even in that commune we experienced already the friction between those married couples that almost resented the Jews within that commune so we did not have an Orthodox community within us. It was a divided Jewish community.

Q: What sort of preparations were you trying to make in order to emigrate to the U.S.?

A: Okay from Salzburg, somehow we were assigned to a city called Awnsboh (ph) which is southern Germany. And there it was like a displaced camp which you have alluded to although we did not see it as acamp. There were individual houses within certain area, there were no walls to the area except it was outside of the city with an area of woods and flowerbeds and it was very pleasant. There, there was a Jewish self-ruling committee established where all the administrative work was done by a, by an elected quote unquote government body. And my father happened to become one and we was kind of considered to be the elite group of that commune. My uncle who returned from the Russian Army, he was the only one that survived due to the fact that he was threaten to the Russian Army, was the physician for that whole area. And again we were fed well.

We had a ample supply of food. My, my own concern was to go on with my education and I did not like living in that commune so because of the school being in the downtown area, my parents and I decided that I would move out and live with a family, ironic enough, a German family.

However, I had my own room and I could go to school in the morning then I would have tutors come in the afternoon to their house where I could totally concentrate on my studies and, and I'd have tutors either going to their homes or they coming to my home. These tutors were former Nazi professors, they were not allowed publicly to teach anymore in the school system so they made their living by tutoring students. And that's, I fell into the hands again of former Nazis. Since my objective was to get as much as I can as far as education was concerned, to catch up for the times that I lost, I decided to forgo the fact that these were Nazis and continued on without dwelling upon political differences. I also in the afternoon, attended a special course for quote Creeksbeshaydickter (ph) which means, meant that all the people that participated in the war, in the German Army could not attend regular school and these were former Nazi yooogunt (ph) and Nazi soldiers that volunteered early in life to be in the army. A special course was created for them at a very fast pace to catch up on all the education requirements. And we found out about it and I applied for that and I got accepted so I was the only female student, Jewish, sitting with all former Nazis, Nazi soldiers, Hitler yoogunt (ph) that during breaks made the same remarks that I used to hear before that how sorry they are that they didn't kill off all the Jews and that they had to do it

over again, they would volunteer over again and they had no hesitation admitting how, how they are looking forward to the Nazis coming back and regaining the power.

Q: Did they know you were Jewish at the time?

A: I would, wager that they knew except that it never came up and we never discussed it. They definitely knew that I was not, by birth, a German. I don't think that my sentiments were such that I could join them in the discussions of the past activities and they must have suspected but they were uninhibited and not remorseful at all of what they did and what was right to do.

Q: Did you find it very troubling to be around such students and even the other teachers?

A: It was difficult, it was very difficult and sad for me to just totally, first of all, I was isolated. I could not have much interaction, you imagine in a classroom where, what if you miss certain notes and what if you need to ask something, so it was very difficult. It was troubling but I had only one choice: either, either give up and not do what I set out to do or just to suffer through it and obtain what my goal was. Some of the teachers were friendly, they liked me and they were admiring me as a child or young person sticking to my guns despite the fact that it was so difficult. And they understood the situation and sometimes they even favored me. Some of the teachers were directly hostile and maybe I perceived it as being hostile but they're definitely not friendly. The people I lived with were fairly civilized. I had kitchen privileges and they made sure there was enough coal because the winter was cold there and it was fairly livable.

Q: How often would you see your parents?

A: I would go visit maybe every third day, and go, it was on a hillside and was go up there and visit for an hour or two and then go back, understanding that hey, we're not separated because of need.

We were separated because of choice and that I had to accomplish this and not totally live in a displaced camp where I could not achieve that education as I did.

Q: Had your family already started some kind of paperwork to emigrate to the U.S.?

A: I think they did because by the sheer fact that they were assigned to that area that this came through an organization that assigned us to that area in order, then later to emigrate according to the planned number of people that were gonna leave that area. There were some inhabitants of that

commune that were going to Israel and there was a strong movement for emigration to Israel at that time and strong protests against the people that were choosing to go to the United States. However, we explained that we had family in the United States and we had not abandoned the Jewish spirit of establishing a homeland for the Jews and that we, we just as good Jews as the ones that emigrated to Israel. It was however, of maybe abandonment and the Zionist Movement accused Jews of being traitors to the United, traitors to the state of Israel which they were hoping to be proclaimed. Or was already proclaimed. .

Q: What year?

A: What year?

Q: What, what year do you think this was that you were in Awnsboh (ph)?

A: 746, seven.

Q: So it may have still been Palestine.

A: Yeah.

Q: So I'm also curious, in preparation to go to the United States, since you did have it in your mind that you were trying to emigrate there, did you start learning English at all?

A: Yes I did and as a matter of fact I was introduced to the English language through newspapers.

And this had started these, in Vrotsluv (ph) before we came to Austria and Germany. My father was a self-taught man and he believed very much in starting early so he used to read to me, he taught himself English through certain, certain self, self, like tapes and books and they were called Longonshide (ph) letters and through those books he taught himself to pronounce the English vocabulary and learn the, the language. So he introduced me to those books and to newspapers and that's became my, thus I learned the language of English.

Q: Do you remember some of the first things that you learned in English?

A: Yeah, I remember some article, some article in the newspaper and it said, England won a new lease of life and I couldn't kind of translate it into German "cause there's no equivalent kind of expression, a new lease of life. And I remember saying to my father, I said, "Just like we won a new lease of life now." That was a lot of fun to learn all that and explore and.

Q: What language was your father using to explain English to you.

A: Some, mostly German. But he was, my father was also a Yiddishcist (ph). He believed in the Yiddish language and the Yiddish culture and he used to speak to me in Yiddish too which sounds like German and so it was easy for me to understand. He encouraged me so much to use the Yiddish source of literature which was very rich and to read like and Sholomosh (ph) and Byalake (ph), Nokman Byalake (ph) in Hebrew and Yiddish translations.

Q: How long did you stay or about how long in Awnsboh (ph) and then where did you go after that?

A: I think we stayed in Awnsboh (ph) approximately seven or eight months. From there I think I went to a very brief stay at Munich because I qualified for entrance to the University of Munich by completing that special course which was a very advanced course. I did go to Munich for a brief period of time and from there we qualified to emigrate to the United States. We did leave Munich to Bramerhoffen (ph) which is the port from where the Jews embarked towards the United States.

Q: When you were in Munich, did you stay on your own there? Were your parents with you?

A: No, my parents remained in Awnsboh (ph) and I stayed again, I was assigned a room in a large Nazi home and again, they had a large Jewish community in Munich and there was a self-governing body again, a Jewish self-governing body with, they've former, a very famous former prominent Jews being at the top. And they made sure that the Jewish, remaining Jewish population had a place to live by, by placing them in homes where former Nazis lived and restricted der Libenstraum (ph) just like they restricted ours for a long period of time. It was not very pleasant to live with these people because you were reminded every day that what, that they were sorry that they did not complete the job of total liquidating the Jewish race and that they'd have to do it over again, they would. So they never left that doubting that they are sorry that it did not come to be, what they planned to do. Otherwise, life was very beautiful in Munich. Again, I enjoyed my student years. I loved the university and the environment there. I loved the cultural life there, the museums were fabulous. The musical life, I remember, for the first time when Leonard Bernstein came to conduct a symphony and I went there and he personally, I got to shake hands with him. it was such a thrill for me. And again, attending all these theaters and art museums. The student population at Munich

University had a fairly, few Jewish students and we remained very close. Unfortunately, the, the, the student body at European universities is not a very close-knit, it's not that you attend a class and you're part of that class. You attend certain courses on different levels. So we did not have one unit, there was one friend at this level, another friend on the other level but we kept very friendly and we had a Jewish student organization. It was nice.

Q: What was the trip like to the United States?

A: I remember it was a transport ship. Everybody was sick. It was quite packed. The journey was not very easy, the voyage through the sea was quite stormy but I shall never forget, I don't remember the year but I know the day when we arrived. We couldn't eat much except the day when we arrived, we docked at a port and we stood there for a whole day and suddenly we were served big portions of turkey. I knew what it was but a lot of people didn't know and said what's happening, suddenly, all that big food and turned out to be Thanksgivings Day and that's why we stayed a whole day docked at the New York Harbor looking at these skyrises and the Statue of Liberty and really giving thanks for arriving at the land of freedom.

Q: What were your first impressions when you finally got off the ship?

A: We had no concept what it would be like to, to arrive in a, in a country that we didn't know anybody. Where will, we had no plan, we were just going there without any plans what would be or how it would happen. We arrived, we docked for a whole day, we were taken off the ship. They were calling out names and I remember hearing our name, Hertzog (ph), and I couldn't imagine, say who knows us here, I mean who would be calling our name? And these were people from an organization, I think it was Hebrew Aid Society, Hiyoss (ph). And we were taken to a place where registrations and all kinds of paperwork had to be done. Then we were assigned to stay in a hotel in Manhattan and we were to come to that administrative building which was somewhere around east, on the east side and we were had to walk from Manhattan to come for lunch and dinner to that administrative building. This was at the transitional period. From there we had to decide, people had to decide what to do and how to construct their lives. For lots of people, this was just a waiting period to move on to different states, midwest and Chicago and so on. Being that people had

relatives in those parts of the United States. We were destined to stay in New York since my father had a cousin. It was a time of search, a time of instability, a time of insecurity, a time of losing self- respect for oneself, being that we were dependent on this Hebrew Aid Society to provide us with lodging and food. We had only a limited amount of resources to establish our own identity. The sponsor that signed for us was a cousin of my father's who was a millionaire in New York, being the proprietor of a multi-million dollar business consisting of all, of all the things, there was hairnets that he imported from China that were folded and bagged in his plant in New York City. We naturally visited him and other members of his family and the first thing to do was to invite us for dinner. Well after the dinner, the first question said, so, what are you gonna do here?

End of tape 2.

Tape 3

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Dr. Anne Resnick conducted by Amy Rubin on November 25", 1996 in Washington, D.C. This is tape three, side A.

You were telling me about meeting with your cousin and what he was starting to ask you about what you were going to be doing in the U.S.

A: Ah, my father replied, "Pll do what I always do. I'll find a way to start a business." Said, "Well how are you gonna start? You don't have any money. I'm gonna give you a job because I signed for that." So he offered a job for my mother and for myself. Now legally I was not supposed to be working yet. He placed us in a sweatshop where it was packed with women sitting alongside a large long table folding those nets, hairnets and placing them in envelopes. The work was so fast and depended on the success of the speed. There was a foreman there, supervising the working women which have been working there for years and were very well suited for that job. Except the two of us, strangers and never having be subjected to that kind of work. And he used to stand there with a real whip and hit the table and we used to withdraw our hands because we were not fast enough. After few days of that kind of environment, we walked out and feeling very disappointed, I kept on walking the streets of 5" Avenue, seeing a different world for myself. I, at the same time, I had the great sense of art and I loved to sew and prepare clothes and I started to design children's clothing and until one person noticed that and gave me a lead where I presented it to a manufacturer.

And after a while, I was designing children's wear at one of the biggest companies in New York. I was not happy with my life though. I used to finish a job and say well, so what else did I do today?

Another piece of cloth. IL, my, I, but I was determined to help my parents get established. I also won scholarship but that was a chance that I took and, subjecting myself to a certain test that I saw at an international student organization offering a scholarship in Texas, Southwestern University.

So I was awarded their, their, I was awarded that scholarship, went down to Texas, stayed there for a short while at the University but I guess I had a guilt feeling leaving my parents in New York and, not really knowing what, how they gonna survive and what they were gonna do. So I dropped everything and came back to New York. But then my father had, still had some resources, financial

ones and had bought a grocery store and we all helped. My mother became the major storekeeper as my father was mainly ordering milk and supplies and that's how we got our feet back and got back into business. I then, it was time that I get out of this family business and my parents having lost all their property and home and textile plant in Europe thought that maybe they could get it back. A movement was on for , meant that the German government should restore some of the property to the Jews. I, there not being very happy in that environment of store and just doing designing, I decided to go back to Europe and to enroll in the university there and at the same time try to see if I could regain some of our, our property. It was difficult for me to stay in New York and continue my education there although I could have stayed in Texas but I, again, did not feel very suited in that, for that area, being that was a total different culture between, in Texas and myself. I went back to Munich and enrolled at the university and was determined to pursue medical degree and become a physician. I did make some contacts with that office but they discouraged me saying that there properties will never be recovered. By then my father had had some account in a Swiss bank and he suggested that I transfer myself to Bairn (ph), Switzerland and enroll at the university, continue my medical studies there and while trying to recover the monies from the bank. But that again, was to no avail. I went to the bank and they said there's no such account. But I stayed on at the University of Bairn (ph). I enjoyed the studies there and I graduated with honors. Switzerland was nice in the effect that I had all the freedom to study and there was a small Jewish student population there where you could interact and pursue your studies. That was my aim and that's was my goal and that's why I went there. I used to come home to New York in the summer. I used to take fellowships at various hospitals and join various international medical students" groups and learned a lot and there was my life: to learn and to be able to do medicine. I graduated from the University of Bairn (ph) and then I met my father in Israel after graduation. And the meantime, a very sad thing happened, while I was in Bairn (ph), my mother was ill, became ill and was diagnosed with ovarian cancer. I came back to New York and faced that reality. It was very difficult since being in medicine, I knew what the outcome would be. However, I had to go back and continue my life. During my last year of school, I was not aware of this grave situation

and my mother passed away without me being at her bedside. My father upon consultation with a rabbi decided not to let me know until it was too late for me to come "cause they were afraid that I would stop school and never return to it. And being in the last year they thought it would be wise for me to finish and that I definitely could not change the situation. This is still a very heavy guilt that is weighing upon my shoulders, not being able to hold the hand at the end of her life and I'll just have to live with it.

Q: Did you talk with your parents once you were in the U.S. much about your experiences during the Holocaust?

A: I never did speak about it, neither was my mother. My father being the extrovert kind of a person started to write a drama, drama and he named it, "Oh Hear Me World." He never finished it.

It was translated by a friend into English. He wrote it in Yiddish. He liked to talk about his experiences but we never did.

Q: When did you personally decide to speak publicly about your experiences?

A: In 1995. [had joined a certain organization through the Jewish community, Jewish Federation in L.A. They had some programs, cultural programs and I came upon certain people. They were child survivors in different countries, in Scandinavian countries and they were telling of their experiences as orphans being taken to a priest, by priests into, Jesuits and churches and lived in orphanages.

And they had the most interesting stories to tell and finally I joined them. Although I did not speak much on my experience, I had this feeling that I belonged to a certain group, that is child survivors.

In 1995, my son being a student at the University of Pennsylvania, visited Washington and visited the museum, the Holocaust Museum and came back and had asked me to talk about my experiences. Although I never did speak to my children about it, I did speak to high school students at the Jewish Federation and I became a docent at the Museum of the Holocaust in L.A., in Los Angeles.

Q: What sort of long-term impact do you feel the Holocaust has had on your life?

A: In the past I did not think that it had any impact. I just was so involved with succeeding in life and, and pursuing what I wanted to do in my life and, and medicine was my only goal in life. And

then I got married and I had two beautiful successful children and I think I instilled upon them the same love of learning and that there was my all, my whole awareness was the presence, the present, not thinking of the past. Now that I start dwelling on the past and seeing that, I had no childhood, that I had lived this life in hiding and during persecutions and a very unusual childhood, I, I begin to realize that it, I think it made me a stronger person although I cannot imagine how it would have been had I had a normal childhood.

Q: Have you started to write about your experiences as well?

A: Ihave. I had been encouraged by certain people in the newspaper field to, after they saw my story in a videotape, to write down those experiences and I decided to do that. And it's slow because I'm still very much involved in medicine and it just leading a normal, busy professional life. But one of these days, I'Il retreat and do some more recollections, putting it down on papers so that maybe my children and their children can read about it. As of today, my daughter still doesn't know what her mother went through and what a life she has had during her childhood.

Q: Would you mind reading just for a moment or two, a selection from, some of your memoirs?

A: This is entitled, "A Day in the Life of a Hidden Child." It was a day as it was in those times, a dark stable, a horse, a high stack of hay. This, this hay occupied a space almost up to the roof. Two little girls, motionless, lying side by side, communicating only with a whisper, a sigh. Sharing the same destiny for no reason or fault of their own. Each different, each from different corners of the world, thrown into a doomed fate of struggle and despair. Both cuddling an imaginary dream on their worn-out blanket, the color of hay to blend in with. The space was small, only room to sit but not to stand. The position assumed was horizontal, laying down only, to reduce friction, to conserve energy, time of the day judged by the sounds of the outside. Sunrise by the crowing of the rooster, sundown by the return of the villagers from the fields. Sundays and holidays by the presence of the horse in the stable, by the small ration of milk instead of water. At the crack of the dawn, the farmer would enter the barn, getting the horse ready for a day's work. He would carry a pail of water, some of which we would share with the horse and a piece of dry bread under his shirt. With a cough, he would signal his approach, produce a ladder and place it at the edge of the hay. He would

place then, the water and the bread at the edge and then quickly disappear removing the ladder as quick as possible. This exchange was so fast, was so quick that we never had the chance to see his face. Time was of essence.

Q: And before we conclude, will you just let me know after you were in school in Switzerland, when did you return to the U.S. and where you lived after that, briefly?

A: After I graduated, as I mentioned, I went to Israel as a tourist. I stayed a tourist for two weeks and then I joined, I volunteered at their hospital in Tella Shamir (ph) and Ramadgan (ph) in Israel. I was almost persuaded to remain there and work there in the hospital however, I still felt that the United States were my home and I returned 1966. I returned to New York. I had to pass certain exams in order to qualify to do post-graduate training and I remained in New York for a brief period of time and then obtained a pediatric internship at the University of Buffalo Children's Hospital. I did an internship there for a year and met my husband, my husband-to-be and moved out to Los Angeles and continued my post-graduate training at Cedar-Sanai (ph) Hospital in New York. I'm sorry, in Los Angeles and remained here for the past 20 years.

Q: I want to thank you very much for being interviewed today.

A: Thank you.

Q: And this concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Dr. Anne Resnick.

Conclusion of interview.