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ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion GARY H. PHILIPP October 8, 2015

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Mr. Gary Philipp, on October 8", 2015, in Boca Raton, Florida. Thank you very, very much Mr. Philipp, for agreeing to speak with us today, for agreeing to share your story, and the difficulties and sufferings that you endured, so that other people would know what you went through, what the Holocaust was.

A: You're most welcome. I do my best.

Q: Thank you. I'm going to start with the most basic questions, and from that we" ll develop the narrative of your story. So, the very first one that I want to ask you is, can you tell me, what was your name at birth?

A: Horst Louis Philipp.

Q: Uh-huh. You were Horst Louis Philipp?

A: Yes.

Q: And what's --

A: Louis is my -- at my grandfather's name, that Jewish people always give the name to the grandchild, of the grandfather.

Q: Okay.

A: That's why ""m -- yeah.

Q: That's why you're Louis in the middle. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp : October 8, 2015

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. And Horst? Were -- was it just a name your parents really liked?

A: Yeah, my mother -- it was a popular name, the 1920s Germany. There were a lot of -- it's a real German name.

Q: Yes, yes. So tell me, what is the date of your birth?

A: Sixth of November, 1927, in a rat -- in Rathenow, province Brandenburg, which is near Berlin. It's near Berlin.

Q: So, Rathenow, near Berlin.

A: Yes. My father was from Berlin.

Q: Did you grow up in Berlin?

A: No, I grew up in Hamburg.

Q: Can you tell me when your family moved to Hamburg?

A: [have to go back a little bit.

Q: Please do.

A: We-- my mother is from the Rhineland. I don't know where she met my father, but they met, and they got married in Cologne, Germany, and moved to -- from Cologne, they moved to Hamburg.

Q: I see.

A: But I couldn't tell you what year. I guess 1926, just the year before I was born. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

Q: Nevertheless, you were born close to Berlin, is that [indecipherable]

A: No, I was --

Q: You was born in Hamburg?

A: Iwas born in Hamburg.

Q: You were born in Hamburg.

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. And do you have brothers and sisters?

A: No, I'm the only one.

Q: You're the only one. Tell me your parents" names.

A: My father's name was George Philipp. My mother's name was Laura Emma.

Her maiden name was Wolf. My mother came from a very good home. The house is still standing ma -- matter of fact, I have pictures of it, and in the -- in the ri-- in Elberfelch. And my father was -- he had -- my grandfather had a furniture store Rathenow, so my father became -- he was buying furniture for the department store in Germany, Karstadt. I don't know if you ever heard of it.

Q: Oh yes, of course I have.

A: It's a huge building in Hamburg, about 10 rooms. But they -- in 1932 -- deg33, he was fired because he was Jewish.

Q: We'll come to that. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

A: Yes.

Q: [have a lot of questions before we get there.

A: Okay.

Q: Okay. But he -- so your grandfather had a furniture store in Rathenow --

A: Rathenow.

Q: -- that was his independent furniture store.

A: [had a-- Thad a picture, and unfortunately, I lost it.

Q: Was it named --

A: I can't find it.

Q: Okay. Was it named the Philipp Furniture Store?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes.

Q: And so your father learned his trade --

A: I think its name was Bannot(ph).

Q: Bannot(ph)?

A: Bannot(ph) Philipp, yes.

Q: Okay. Your father learned his trade then, at the -- in his father's store. He learned the business there. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: Yes.

Q: And then when he moved to Hamburg, he then became a buyer for Karstadt?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Had your family on your father's side, lived for a long time in Rathenow?

Were they from someplace else, or were they, you know, Germans --

A: I don't know.

Q: -- Germans for generations?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes.

Q: What about your mother? You se --

A: Same.

Q: Same?

A: Same, yes.

Q: Elberfeld is where she came from?

A: Elberfeld-Barmen.

Q: Okay, in [indecipherable].

A: Yes.

Q: El-Elberfeld-Barmen. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

A: Yes.

Q: And you said she came --

A: The street name is [indecipherable] strasse 14.

Q: That's the -- her address.

A: That's the address that bil -- that building, that three story. In German we called it a Patrizier(ph) house. Does that -- does that mean anything to you?

Q: No, explain please.

A: Well, it's a very noble type of a building. It's a very upscale building.

Q: Is it a-- was it a one family, or a multi --

A: One family.

Q: One family [indecipherable]

A: One family, yes.

Q: Okay, do you know --

A: [remember as a child to -- spent time there, couple times.

Q: And so does that mean that her family was quite well-to-do, if they had a Patrizier(ph) house?

A: I guess so.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

Q: Did you know your maternal grandparents?

A: Yes, that's another story.

Q: Please tell it.

A: I don't know I should.

Q: Yeah, please.

A: I think it was in -- I have to think of the year. I don't know exactly the year, maybe 40, 1940, my grandmother came to Hamburg to visit us, and the minute she came from the station, she said she didn't feel good. So we -- they took a taxi, and they brought her up in the -- to our apartment, which was on the third floor. And they put a-- made an extra bed in my bedroom where I slept, and they put her in the bed. But the Jewish custom is, you never put the head to the door, you put -- you always put the feet to the door. Maybe you know that, I don't know. But -- but she died the same night.

Q: Really?

A: She had diabetes, of course.

Q: Isee. I see.

A: So, I remember that.

Q: Well certainly, you were a young boy still.

A: Yeah, I was young. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: Yeah, to -- to see --

A: Quite young.

Q: Did your mother have bro-brothers and sisters?

A: No. Yes.

Q: She did.

A: Yes. I think at least three.

Q: Did you know them well?

A: No. I only heard of -- I only heard of the -- the rumors. My mother talked about her sister, she had a bad marriage, her name was Tia(ph) Klauwein(ph), I think, or Fulwein(ph). And she had a bad mar-marriage, and she got a divorce, and she had a nervous breakdown. So they put her in an institution, and that was -- that was the end of her, we never saw her again.

Q: What a sad fate.

A: They -- they killed her there, somewhere, cause Hitler didn't want anybody not healthy running around, or multiplying, yes.

Q: And -- and were there uncles?

A: Then she had another sister, who escaped from Frankfurt to England, and from England to Buffalo. And she has a son, that's my cousin, I'm in touch with him. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: What was the name of this second sister? What was the name of the second sister?

A: Greta(ph).

Q: Greta(ph)?

A: Greta(ph) Ulman(ph).

Q: Ulman(ph). And the first sister was Tia(ph), did --

A: Tia(ph).

Q: Tia(ph). Okay.

A: And it -- the other one, I don't know.

Q: Okay. All right. And, so that was your mother's side of the family?

A: Yes.

Q: And did you say she had a brother, or no brothers? I thought you had said she had a brother, too.

A: No.

Q: No brother. So it was a family of girls. And from your father's side, were there brothers and sisters?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Who were -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

A: He had two sisters. Unfortunately, I lost their pa -- their pay -- the picture. Had a beautiful picture of them. One sister married a Polish guy, so she was deported first, when they started to deport Jewish people from Germany, she was deported with her husband that perished --

Q: Before the war?

A: -- and perished right away.

Q: Okay.

A: Never heard from her.

Q: Never heard from her?

A: No. The other sister went to Spain.

Q: Do you know their names? Do you remember their names?

A: [have to -- I have to -- I don't want to get things mixed up.

Q: If you don't, it's okay.

A: I can't -- I'm a little nervous, to be honest with you.

Q: I--I understand.

A: I don't know. I don't really know. She had a daughter, too, and that was my cousin, and I was in touch with her -- with him -- Herta.

Q: Herta.

A: Herta Philipp. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: Herta Philipp.

A: Herta Philipp, yes.

Q: Okay. And she's the one who went to Spain?

A: She went to Spain, and she had a daughter, and a son.

Q: And a son.

A: Yeah, daughter and a son.

Q: And they survived the war?

A: Yeah, in Spain.

Q: Okay.

A: They came to America, and -- and my cousin was drafted, I think he was in the army in [indecipherable]. They found him -- they found him after a short time, they found him dead in a -- in a hotel room.

Q: Oh dear.

A: They thought it would be suicide, so we had a hard time to get -- get him a proper funeral, because Jewish people don't believe in suicide, so the rabbi wouldn't want to come.

Q: Oh dear.

A: But we finally managed that he got a decent burial. And my cou -- my female cousin, she died of cancer about 10 - 15 years ago. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: So you -- you had contact with them after the war?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: Okay.

A: They had pictures, you see, and they gave me those pictures. Somehow I lost them.

Q: Did you --

A: I got careless and threw them away, I guess.

Q: Well, people, when they stayed, or were in the places of either Germany, or the occupied territories, lost everything. They didn't have any photographs. So usually, it was, if they have any pictures of their families before the wars, it's because other people had them, whom the photos had been sent to, and then they resupplied, you know, the individual.

A: Well, that's the way it was in Hamburg, then. After the -- we lived in different places in Hamburg, and then one day they -- the German government said that all Jews have to live closer together, and only in certain houses.

Q: Oh, I see.

A: So we had to move in an apartment house where -- where mostly Jewish people, family, in that house. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: So this is the same kind of procedure as in the occupied countries, let's say, as in Poland, where ghettos were created, but it just didn't have a barbed wire around it.

Is that what --

A: No.

Q: No.

A: It didn't have a barbed wire. I have pict -- I have picture here that I'll sh -- I want to show it to you.

Q: We'll take a photo -- we" ll look at it later.

A: When I was depor -- deported from this building --

Q: Okay.

A: I--canI go on?

Q: Well, I'd like to talk about your childhood. Can we talk about your child --

A: Oh yeah, I can tell you my childhood in Hamburg.

Q: Please do.

A: And it was an incident, I don't know how old I was, could have been six or seven year old, I wore a Tyrolean outfit, leather pants.

Q: Lederhosen.

A: Lederhosen. Well, a man came -- came to the door, to the house door, and told my parents we had to come to the police, all three of us. And there we were told that https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp 6 October 8, 2015 I could never wear those pants ever again, because I am Jewish. Only -- only Aryan people are allowed to wear pants.

Q: These lederhosen.

A: And I was -- I was shaking inside, you know, o-of fright. There was that, yes.

Q: And you were then still a you -- a little boy, if that was --

A: Yeah, six or seven years old.

Q: So you also were quite little when Hitler came to power.

A: Yeah, he came to power 1933.

Q: Thirty-three. Do you have any memories, do you think, of --

A: I saw him in person.

Q: Did you?

A: Yes. One day we -- I was in the street, and all of a sudden they said, oh, he's gonna march by in a-- in a minute or two. They -- we couldn't cross the street, I had to stand there, and he was -- there were about six or seven people on each side of him, and he marched by. Yeah, I saw him in person.

Q: And was he shorter than everybody else, taller than everybody else?

A: Yeah, no, he was short, he was short.

Q: He was short.

A: He was short, yeah. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: Was this -- were there a lot of people on the side of the street?

A: Yes. Screaming, having the arms up, heil Hitler. Yes.

Q: Were you alone then, or with your parents?

A: No, I was alone. Was alone.

Q: And was this like a military parade of some kind?

A: Yes, so -- yeah.

Q: And in Hamburg.

A: In Hamburg.

Q: Do you remember the street?

A: No, it was cur -- very close to -- it was like this, next street he came to was Grindelallee.

Q: Grindelallee.

A: And that is -- was a very Jewish neighborhood, very Jewish, so --

Q: So it was a march on purpose, through a Jewish neighborhood.

A: I guess so. I guess so.

Q: One could make that assumption.

A: Yeah.

Q: So, do you have any memories of before your age six, like before Hitler comes to power? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp a October 8, 2015

A: Not really.

Q: Not really.

A: Not really, that -- that's all I me -- almost know.

Q: Okay.

A: I want to bring out one important thing.

Q: Okay.

A: This is not -- of course we had to -- I do remember we had to fill out papers, everything what we owned, everything what we owned. My parents had to put down even their wedding ring, everything, every silver, everything. Furniture, everything. They wanted to know what you have.

Q: An inventory.

A: Inventory. Radio, everything. I remember that. We couldn't -- I think it started in deg38, somewhere in there. We couldn't go to any grocery stores. We had to go to only one special stores -- store for Jewish people. And the line was tremendous. And people on the outside would laugh, pointing. Oh, look at those Jews, they have to stay in line to get their stuff. And I do remember we had an old age home very close to where I lived, three houses. I did a couple shopping in that store for older people, I did that. I remember that. And they gave me 50 cents or something, you know.

Q: I take it your parents rented your accommodations when you were in Hamburg? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: Yes, they rented.

Q: They rented.

A: They rented. My mother had a very nice lady friend. She met her from the first apartment we had in Hamburg. When we came to Hamburg, she lived next door.

Her husband had a big radio store in one of the main streets -- main streets in Hamburg. And this lady already had a car; she was blonde. And she took my mother, every second week they went someplace outside Hamburg, some nice place, and they had coffee and cake, and I sometimes, or most of the time, went with them.

Q: Was she Jewish?

A: The problem was, her husband was a big Nazi.

Q: Oh my.

A: He was a -- he was a big Nazi. And one day, later on, she was sitting our modest little apartment, it was just terrible, towards the end. She was sitting there, and she said -- she took her hands, and she put it over her head, and she said, oh my God, what could we do, we didn't have our fuehrer? And my mother and I were speechless. We just looked at each other, didn't say one word. And then, of course, that's -- that was [indecipherable] we didn't hear any more. It was -- her husband https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp 0 October 8, 2015 didn't want that she would be in contact with us any more. I have a picture here.

And --

Q: Were there other -- were there German people who were -- I mean, you mentioned her, were there others who were friendly?

A: Yes.

Q: There were?

A: Yes, yes. But they were silent. You were not supposed to talk to Jewish people on the street any more. You couldn't go to the movies, you couldn't go to any place, except to the Jewish store, where you get your butter and your breads and everything.

Q: So, did you ever see a movie when you were growing up?

A: Yes, I saw a lot of movies. I love movies. I went by myself, it was very cheap, 30 cents, or so.

Q: And they let you in?

A: Yeah, they let me in. And I don't know what year it was when it says the Jews are not allowed in the movie. My mother went once. She took a chance. She wanted to see the -- she wanted to see the movie. And I must say, my mother didn't look particular Jewish, so she didn't have a-- she had a no-normal nose, so she was okay.

Q: So she got to see it. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015

A: Yes.

Q: What was -- what was the movie, do you n -- do you remember, did she talk about --

A: Yeah, I don't remember. My first movie -- one of my first movies I do remember was "Ramona" with Loretta Young and Don Ameche, and I'm still thinking about it, how beautiful it was, how I -- impressed I was about the movie.

Q: The glamour times.

A: Yes.

Q: You know, they portrayed these glamour times.

A: I was six, seven years old, eight years. Yeah, I remember that movie.

Q: Did -- you said your father lost his job. How did that happen?

A: Well, my father lost his job, he could not get any work any more. He had a bicyc --he got -- got himself a bicycle, and -- and there was a coffee company, they would -- they said to him, you can take 10 pounds of coffee, and so -- and then he got -- he take that coffee and peddled around to Jewish families, and they bought the coffee from him; and also sausage. I don't know where he got the sausage from. And you will see, when I show you, my father aged, it was unbelievable. Between 1933 and deg41, he looked like an old man. He lost all his hair. It was very difficult, very difficult. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: When was he born? What year was he born?

A: I think it's either 1890 -- "94 or 96. I'm -- I always get it mixed up.

Q: So he was a young man?

A: But I think you can -- yeah, sure, my father was only 47 years old when he -- my mother was in her late 30s. When I come to --

Q: Okay.

A: -- when she was -- when they were killed. Yeah. I want to tell you one more story

Q: Okay.

A: -- of that episode in Hamburg. So they put us in this building, there were maybe four or six more Jewish fa -- people living there, and -- and few Aryan people, but very few. And there was -- we were the third floor, and there was a -- and the second floor was Dr. Besser(ph) is his na -- was his name. And each apartment had a -- they had a window to the stairway, milk, so you couldn't look in the apartments.

Q: So it was milky, kind of window?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: [indecipherable] sun, always.

Q: Okay. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: On the si-- on the sixth of November, that's my birthday, we got the notice that we have to, within 24 hours, we have to leave the apartment.

Q: This is what your --

A: And leave the -- and leave the key at the police station. And they were -- that we have to gather at the Freemason building. Well, it-- I guess we got the letter in morning, and they always had the lights on, Dr. Besser(ph). We happened -- after a couple hours, we looked -- I stepped -- we stepped out of the door and we looked over the rail, we could see the light was out. We ne -- we knew exactly what ha -- what -- what happened. They killed themselves. They didn't want to go ina concentration camp. As we were, standing there, looking over the railing, another woman, a German woman came out. She was the -- she took care of the building, to see that everything was all right. I know her name even, va -- Willis(ph). She said in German [speaks German]

Q: Oh yeah, so --

A: I thought -- I thought I didn't hear right. So that was that.

Q: Can you translate for us what that was, what it is that she said.

A: I can't translate that into English.

Q: In an ascheimer -- in an ashcan.

A: In the garbage with the -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: The Jews should be put --

A: All the Jewish garbage, or something like that, I don't know.

Q: The Jews should be packed into a garbage can, something like this.

A: Yes.

Q: Like an ashcan.

A: [ll never forget it.

Q: Yeah.

A: And I always swore I was going to do something about it after World War II, I-- to confront her, or do something, but I didn't. I had other things on my mind.

Q: Well --

A: So, that was that.

Q: Now, how old were you -- th -- you said this happened on your birthday.

A: It was exactly my 14" birthday.

Q: So that would have been 1940, or 19 --

A: Forty-one.

Q: Forty-one.

A: So, now we come to that.

Q: Okay. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: So, we -- we went to the freema -- Freemason building. They had different tables there that had -- that were -- my mother -- my parents had to take the -- the rings off, the passport another place. They stripped us totally. And then we had to sleep on the floor. On the floor. [indecipherable] And people are starting to cry, and you know how it goes. And next morning they had, outside they had trucks, covered trucks.

More like Jeep type of thing. And my mother s -- told us to go there. My mother always fainted, so two SS men had to take her under the arm, and threw her in the -- threw her in the --

Q: In the truck.

A: Yes.

Q: And were you already there, with your father?

A: I was there then, with my father, too. Went to the railroad station. Railroad station they had a -- an old out -- outdated train waiting for us. I don't remember it was hot or cold, that I don't remember. And they said we are going somewhere east, they didn't tell us exactly where, to work.

Q: Did you have any luggage with you?

A: One luggage each was it.

Q: Okay. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: So, we were in this train two days, I think. At least two days, two nights, or three nights, I don't know. And we s-- s-- came to Minsk.

Q: That's east all right.

A: Minsk.

Q: That all -- that's very far east from Hamburg.

A: Yes, yes.

Q: That's in Belarus.

A: As the -- as the train stood still, and I look out, I saw -- every few steps I saw a soldier, or SS with a gu-- with a --

Q: With a gun?

A: -- guns.

Q: Before we get there, can you tell me what was the train ride like? Were you in cattle cars, were you in --

A: No, this was not a cattle car.

Q: Describe it.

A: It was an old, outdated, third-class. In those days they had first and second and third class.

Q: Okay.

A: Which they don't have today any more. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp m October 8, 2015

Q: Can you describe what it looked like, what the train ride -- did you have a place to sit, did you have a place to lie down?

A: No, no place --

Q: How many people --

A: --no place to lie down. You had to sit for three days.

Q: Okay.

A: And it -- and it just -- in a chair, just a regular chair.

Q: And was it overcrowded, the train, or -- | mean, the -- the compartments? Was there --

A: Well, every seat was filled.

Q: Okay.

A: Every seat was filled. They had a --a volunteer nurse, a Jewish -- from the Jewish organization, she was sitting there. I remember something like this.

Q: Were there facil --

A: About food, I don't know nothing about food.

Q: Nothing about food.

A: I don't remember.

Q: Facilities of any kind? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: Yeah, must have been. It must have been, because I remember later when -- when we didn't have it.

Q: Okay.

A: So it must have had, yes.

Q: Okay. And were there soldiers on the train? Were there, within the compartments themselves, did you have the [indecipherable]

A: I don't know. I can't remember.

Q: Okay. Okay. Just wondering.

A: The doors were locked, we couldn't get out, that I know.

Q: Could you see --

A: Doors and windows were locked.

Q: Could you see through the windows, as you were go --

A: You could see, yes.

Q: Okay. Did you see mostly landscapes, or any --

A: Yeah, landscape.

Q: Okay. And it was -- you couldn't tell where you were going?

A: No. No. It was two days at least, like I said.

Q: Yeah.

A: Two days, two nights, or three. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

Q: Yeah, yeah. Okay, so there you were in Minsk, you see the soldiers with their guns --

A: They started screaming.

Q: Okay.

A: The minute they opened the door, they said, raus, you Juden [speaks German], raus, raus. And then they had those -- those gu -- those big guns. They were hitting people in the back because they didn't run fast enough to the trucks, sitting on the other side of the street. They were covered trucks. And the trucks were high, so most people could not get in. So they picked the people up and threw them in there.

And I remember I was one of the last ones. I was on top, I don't know how many people were any which way under me.

Q: So it was like a pile of people.

A: Piles of people, just thrown in th -- in this truck, and I was on top of it. And then they started to move. And I can't tell you -- it took 45 minutes, an hour, I don't know the time, how long it took until we got to the ghetto. It was supposed to be called sonderghetto, special ghettos for German Jews.

Q: I see.

A: It had a wire. And we got in, and we saw a red building, a big, red building.

Q: Brick? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *deg October 8, 2015

A: Brick building. And it was a school before. It was a school in the old days. And we were staying there, we're standing there, and then they, through the [indecipherable] and then, I don't know what happened, I was short, so I could not see it all, only could hear it, there were so many tall people in front of me. They put several people against the wall, against the wall, and I heard the -- I heard them shooting them, and they were killing them, that was the first thing.

Q: From this group that had come from Hamburg?

A: Idon't know what kind of -- I don't know, I only know they're shooting. I couldn't tell you. Then -- then they announced again, over the speaker, we need so many volunteers to go inside the building and clean up. What happened was, they had Russian Jews living in there before, and wa -- and then when the announcement came that German Jews are coming, they killed all those Russian Jews. Inside you saw where people were eating doing this and that.

Q: So-

A: All the utensil were all laying around, to the top of -- they had one big stove like this, where they had several different utensil -- cooking utensils. We had to take all that and throw it out, out of the window.

Q: So, it was out la --

A: [indecipherable] ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015

Q: So that was like they were caught in the middle of a meal.

A: Yes. So then they put us in -- you know what an aula is, aula?

Q: No, you explain it.

A: Every school has an aula, a big room, usually.

Q: An auditorium?

A: Yeah, like an auditorium upstairs. They put more people there, regular rooms they put less people. But we were in the a-aula, on the -- my parents and I.

Q: So, was this a two story building, a two story --

A: No, more than that. No, was more, at least four or five.

Q: And this was in the middle of Minsk, in the city of Minsk, the ghetto?

A: No.

Q: Outside?

A: It must have been outside.

Q: Outside.

A: Must have been outside. But our ghetto -- our ghetto touched the Russian ghetto.

There was only wire between.

Q: I see.

A: They had more than 70,000 Russian Jews on the other side, and we were 12,000, after a few weeks, from Vienna, another one from Berlin, another one from https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015 Cologne, all mixed, you know? And what they did, the food was so bad, they gave us soup, it was like barley soup. They put -- you ever heard -- it's called in German, they put saltpeter in the -- in this soup. That means that they want to make men sterile, they didn't want that they have sex. They didn't want to have more babies, or anything like that. That was the start with that. And then a piece of bread, like a piece of pie, the shape. And maybe a little margarine or butter, something like that.

So, what people did when they got their luggage -- if they got their luggage, many people didn't get their luggage -- they would take what -- the belongings they had, they would go with something to the Russian, where the Russian concentration camp was.

Q: The -- the ghetto. The Russian Jewish ghetto.

A: Yeah, and they would -- they would give us bread for exchange things.

Q: Di -- is that -- did you get your luggage, your family, were you --

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Okay. And so, were you able to do something --

A: Yeah, we did that for a while. Doesn't last too long, you know.

Q: No.

A: Well, anyway, I was there for two years.

Q: So what did you -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp % October 8, 2015

A: Two years in this horrible place. And we always heard shooting at night, we never know where the shooting took place, we don't know. Somewhere.

Q: Did they put you to work?

A: Well, during the two years, they mar-marched me -- they marched me out with other young guys my age, into the woods, I don't know, and we had to carry trees about this big -- this big and long from here to -- to there. Two -- two guys on this end, two guys -- carried it from here to there, I don't know. I don't know wh-why. I thought it was dumb. They made us work, you know.

Q: What about your parents? Were your parents also put to work?

A: I don't know. I don't know. It's a funny [indecipherable] I don't know what happened, no.

Q: Okay. Were you all together during these two years?

A: Yeah, til September 1943 -- 1943, they took my parents, me, more -- other people out -- way out somewhere in a field. They said to me, you -- you stay -- you are here.

My mother over here, more women with her. My father over there with other men.

And then they said to us, turn around. We had to turn around, and I saw in the distance cattle cars. Cattle cars were waiting for us. I went in the cattle car, I saw a little straw on the -- on the -- on the floor, and I saw one pail. One pail for so many people. We could -- we were just like this, we could not -- we could hardly bend to -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp st October 8, 2015 to sit down, you know, [indecipherable]. And then they closed the cattle car, and off we went. And I got the list here of the next concentra -- next place where we went.

Q: And where was that? What was that, what was the next place?

A: Yeah, I have to --

Q: Oh, you don't remember?

A: No.

Q: Okay, hang on just a second. [break] Okay, so you needed to consult some paper to remember the next place you went to.

A: Yes, was --

Q: And that -- Lublin.

A: Lublin, yes.

Q: And then you also mentioned off camera, that there was somebody you knew from Hamburg, who was in all of the camps with you. Can you explain?

A: That is Edgar. Edgar Cohen was his name. He went to school with me, and somehow we decided we're going to stick together no matter what happens, and we did. We were lucky th-that we were not separated.

Q: So, was he in the same cattle car with you --

A: Yes. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: -- that went to Lublin?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Okay.

A: You can contact him, I have his address. He speaks very bad German. He's very Swedish, he got very --

Q: Okay. So -- and your parents were in separate cattle cars? No?

A: [had no idea what happened to my parents. All I know, I start crying in the -- I was crying already in the -- in the cattle car, worried about -- worrying about my parents. I never know until the -- but it must be 10 years now. Maybe 10 or 15 years ago I found really out, what happened to my parents.

Q: What happened?

A: Well, they shot them. They shot them and they throw them -- they throw the bodies in the burning barn. And I spent awful many years thinking about it. I said to [indecipherable] is it good not to know it, or is it better to know it?

Q: Do you have an answer?

A: And neither one is --

Q: You don't -- you don't --

A: -- salvation. Neither one. No. And my mother was very -- you know, everybody's valuable, any human life. She was very educated, she played the violin. She was ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp 6 October 8, 2015 very musical. Sh-She loved opera like me -- like I do, I inherit all that. She liked art, she liked ev -- you know. She didn't know much about Judaism. Only on the high holidays, they went to the temple, [indecipherable] temple in Hamburg. That building is still standing, too.

Q: Where did they take -- were you brought up in any religious -- with any religious instruction?

A: Well, I was still lucky to --I still became, on my 13" birthday, you get --

Q: Bar Mitzvah, no?

A: -- Bar Mitzvah. I still had Bar Mitzvah, but not in a-- in a synagogue. It was sort of a private home. And I re --I learned to read that, which I can't even do today any more, the Torah.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah. I did that.

Q: You did that. So when -- so when you were separated from your parents in that field in Belarus, that was the last time you saw them?

A: Mm-hm, 19 -- 1943, September.

Q: And how did you find out conclusively, what had happened to them? When did you -- what -- what kind of document showed you that? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: Mr. Norman(ph) in Germany, he's, like you, an interviewer. And I don't know, he f -- he interviewed me several times. And there's another organization o-or production, I don't know what it is, in Germany, they found that out. They found it out, and I'm not 100 percent sure if I have it documented on this -- wh-when we are through interviewing me, I will show you.

Q: Okay.

A: You can take it with you.

Q: Okay.

A: You can play it and see if you find it.

Q: Okay.

A: That's --

Q: Okay, so when you --

A: --the only documents I think I have.

Q: So when you were in Lublin, at that point, you didn't know. You didn't know whether they were taken somewhere else --

A: No, not -- not -- no. All these years, 20, 30, 40, 50 years, I didn't know. It's horrible.

Q: What was Lublin? What -- what -- what took place in Lublin when you were there? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: I don't remember. I don't remember. I don't remember Lublin, I don't remember Reichsdorf(ph).

Q: Excuse me just for a second --

A: I went to Plaszow.

Q: Okay. [break] Okay, so could you read off -- could you tell me about the various camps, and what you remember from each, okay?

A: Well, after Minsk, we were transported to Lublin, Reichsdorf(ph), Plaszew, [indecipherable]. And I don't remember. I don't remember what we did there.

Then we went to Flossenbiirg.

Q: In Germany itself?

A: In Germany, that's in Bavaria, and I remember it was -- it's deep down in the valley, the building. I-- I remember that we had to get up at four o'clock, 4:30 in the morning, naked. Had to stand outside for two hours to be counted. And they always said, if somebody's missing, we're going to shoot so many people.

Q: Did that happen?

A: No, it did not happen, not that I remember. So that's when I -- in Flossenbiirg.

Then we went to Kolyma. There we worked for -- there we worked for airplane piet -- pieces, to make parts for the airplane, I remember that. That was very difficult.

Then there was a -- I remember there was a -- a Frenchman, he worked there, he was ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp *deg October 8, 2015 not an inmate. He gave me, once in a while, piece of bread. He had an apple. And I wrote to him after World War II, until he died. His name was Mr. Parmentier(ph).

Okay. Then we went to Obus(ph), I don't remember anything about Obus(ph).

Then we went to Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg.

Q: So that's close --

A: That's in Berlin.

Q: Yeah.

A: Near Berlin. And I have to go back for a moment. In 1939, you probably know, that they had the Crystal Night in Germany.

Q: I wanted to ask you about that.

A: They had the Crystal Night, and they picked up my father, and all the Jews in Hamburg, and he was sent to -- he was sent to --

Q: Sachsenhausen?

A: Sachsenhausen. | think he was there for two months. And when he came home, he said to my mother, he had to sign a piece of paper not to talk what he saw, and he what -- what -- he never talked about it. And then we went to Braunschweig, I don't remember much there either.

Q: What about Sachsenhausen? Do you have any memories of Sachsenhausen?

A: Yeah, that's -- that was Oranienburg, Sachsenhausen. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp << October 8, 2015

Q: Yeah. Do you have memories of being there, and --

A: Well, yes. I don't know if I should -- we had to stay again outside in the morning, naked. And one guy was counting us. He was gay. And he looked at me, he told me to come forward, towards him. I did, and he asked me if I want to work wi -- or get a--work with him, get a job, it's called kapo. You heard of kapos?

Q: Tell me who they were.

A: Yes. So I liked the idea, and I didn't like the idea because I felt I was so young, and I should tell other people who are much older than I am, to go and do this, and do that, and -- and [indecipherable] -- I thought it was not my place to do. But I did it. So that's that. And then we come to Neuengamme. | can't remember which, to be honest with you, it was one of the ca -- one of the camps" barracks. There was some gay people again. They said the Nazis are going to come any moment.

They're going to -- they're going to go through the barracks. And they put us in the attic, Edgar and me, they put us in the attic, and I was there for several hours. So, if they would have come, they probably would have picked us and kill us. So they sa -- that's why I'm always very thankful to them. They were very good to me that way.

Q: So, there were other prisoners who told you about that, and they -- and that meant that they hid you in the attic? Is that -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: They hid me in the attic, yes, but I can't remember which one it was. And now we come almost to the end. They took us on the train, and then they put us in Flensburg, which is very north of Germany.

Q: Near Denmark, I believe.

A: Yes. And they put us on a-- on a ship, on a freighter -- freighter type ship. Not -- we didn't know what they had in mind. They actually had in mind to sink the ship.

And I have a book, a German book where another man was on the ship, and he knows the name of the ship -- I don't know the name of the ship -- but they didn't have time to do that because the American came already, so they were fleeing the Nazis. And we saw in the distance, we saw tiny, little boats coming from Sweden.

The Red Cross came and took us down.

Q: Out of the boat, out of the ship.

A: Out of the boat, and saved us. I was brought to Sweden. I was already -- and the war ended se-seven of May, I think, deg45.

Q: Yeah, mm-hm.

A: I was already free on the seven of May. I was already in Sweden.

Q: So -- you were in Sweden, so when they put you on that ship, was that early May, or was that late April? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp % October 8, 2015

A: That was -- that must have been early May. Early May, and I think some people -- yeah, there were some Germans still on it. They asked me, and I said I'm Polish. I --Icouldn't dare -- I wouldn't dare to say I was Jewish. My friend didn't look Jewish either. He also said, I'm Polish. Well, they know we didn't have any papers, so they had to believe us.

Q: Mm-hm. And --

A: [indecipherable] what I'm telling you.

Q: Yes.

A: I mean that's -- there's much more to it than this, but --

Q: Would you like to tell me a little bit more?

A: I just -- I just really don't know. I don't want to make mistake. We were put in quarantine in Sweden --

Q: Okay.

A: -- for several months. And then, during the day, we could go in the courtyard.

There were hundreds of people every day, from the streets, people asking questions.

Refugees who left Germany or other parts of Europe. Have you seen my -- you were in Minsk, have you seen my brother, have you seen my sister, and so on, you know. So one -- some woman said to me, have you seen my brother? I said, yes, I've seen him. I hate to tell you, but he was -- he was killed. His name was ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015 Horowitz(ph), Hugo Horowitz(ph). So she said, would you visit me after you come out of this quarantine? I said yeah, I will do that. But in the meantime, they called them lottas(ph), those Swedish -- they work for the Red Cross, I guess, the type -- that type. She insisted that I go to -- go to her house. She had five sons. She said one -- she said one more or less doesn't make any difference. I was with them for two -- for several months. They were very good to me. Very, very good. Lovely people.

Q: So this was in Sweden?

A: In Sweden, in Helsingborg. This took place in Helsingborg. In the meantime, I visit this Jewish lady for -- from Hamburg. I visit her, and we became friends, and I went to America, we kept in touch. We became very, very close. They wanted adopt -- they wanted to adopt me, but I didn't want to change my name. Their name were Liebentowski(ph). Liebentowski(ph) had a relative. You probably can find that in the Jewish museum. [indecipherable] music. You will find that in some books, Jewish books, his name, Liebentowski(ph).

Q: Liebentowski(ph).

A: That was his cousin, I guess.

Q: And they were from Hamburg, and they had wanted to kind of take you in and adopt you. Were they also going to the United States? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 4 October 8, 2015

A: I visit them -- I promised them that I would never leave this country. I wasn't happy in this country.

Q: In the United States?

A: No. I found everything very strange. I always heard money, money, money. I always heard money. I thought it was so strange to me, the word money. But we c -- we -- I visit them all the time. I moved away from San Diego to San Francisco, and I visit them every year, two or three times. They came to me. In 1953, I met a gentleman from Slovenia. He also was in concentration camp, several camps, many camps, and --

Q: Was he Jewish?

A: No, no, he was Catholic, he was Catholic. And we lived together 46 years.

Q: Oh my goodness.

A: Forty-six years. It was a per -- most perfect set up I ever had in my life.

Q: What was his name?

A: Anton Rsl.

Q: Anton Rsl.

A: [have his picture here somewhere.

Q: Maybe you can show that to us later. Yeah, the -- his picture. So he had --

A: Yeah, it's -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *% October 8, 2015

Q: Had he been in camps because -- had he been arrested --

A: We had so much -- we had so much in common. We had the same ambitions, we wanted to live nice, peaceful, and we built even a house in San Francisco, it's still standing. Nice home.

Q: Can we cut, just for a second? [break] Gary, you mentioned -- you mentioned some of the episodes that you went through, and I want to ask you now about some much more personal things, and I -- I apologize in advance for the prying that this involves. But I think -- the reason why I am doing so, is so that people in the future would have a much clearer sense of exactly what kind of danger, what kind of suffering people went through when they had no power, when they were completely helpless. So, if we could start with this incident when you were in Sachsenhausen, and someone pulled you aside. What did that entail? This man pulled you aside, he was a kapo, is that correct?

A: Yes.

Q: And --

A: Well, it-- when he looked at me, and I looked at him, I knew exactly -- I was -- my instinct told me, I knew exactly what it meant, right then and there, I knew that.

Q: And what did it mean? What did it mean? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp %deg October 8, 2015

A: Well, it meant that he wanted to, if I like it or not, I have to sleep with him. I have to have --

Q: IT understand.

A: And I did this for several weeks.

Q: Was this --

A: Several weeks, as long as I was in that camp.

Q: Was this the first time something like that --

A: That was the first time in Flossenbiirg, yes.

Q: In Sachsenhausen?

A: Yeah, Sachsenhausen, not -- not before.

Q: Not before.

A: No, not before, no.

Q: So in other words, it's your first sexual experience.

A: Yes.

Q: And it happens in this way?

A: Yes. I had another I'd a -- it was not a sexual experience, when we were in ru -- in Russia.

Q: Okay. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: We went out to some -- someplace in the country. Was some big building, I don't know, was -- was to work some -- something there, and I--I walked away a little bit from -- from the building, I was all by myself, standing by a tree. And out of the blue skies came a soldier, German soldier. And he looked me deep in the eyes, and he said -- he said to me, you want to get away from all this? You want to go ma -- go with me? And I hesitated of course, I said yes, no, yes, no. Maybe it's a good thing I didn't do that, because I probably would be -- we probably both would be caught, and would be shot. So that was another experience and that -- gay experience.

Q: Did you know yourself, inside, did you know what your -- what your proclivity was? Did you know you were gay at that age?

A: Iwas just young.

Q: That's why --

A: Ijust didn't -- I just didn't know. I didn't know. I thought I'll grow -- I thought I would outgrow it, you know? I didn't know. I didn't know. And I -- sex was not on my mind --

Q: Survival --

A: -- in all th -- in all these -- you know.

Q: I can imagine that it wouldn't be.

A: No, sex was not on my mind. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp %8 October 8, 2015

Q: Did these -- did you see -- did you see these types of things with -- with people around you?

A: Well, it -- it -- it happened to my -- to my Edgar, it happened to him, too.

Q: Did it?

A: This man's name was Hoffman(ph), or -- I don't know, I don't remember. So Edgar -- but Edgar was not mad at all for this. And so one day he didn't want to do it, so this Hoffman(ph) took all his clothes away, stripped him completely of his clothes, he had no clothes, he could not get out of -- out of the barrack. He could not, and he cried. And he cried and he cried and he cried. So -- and he's a little smaller and -- than me, and --

Q: Was this in Sachsenhausen?

A: -- it was terrible. No, I cannot tell you what cam -- camp it was, but I remember the event, yeah, because he told me, and I saw the man. It was another prisoner.

Q: It was another prisoner?

A: It was another prisoner, probably a gay prisoner.

Q: It is your --

A: And Edgar's very straight, he's got a nice family, and he's a grandfather, and he was never that way.

Q: Well, regardless, it is exploiting the powerless. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp >> October 8, 2015

A: Yes, that's what they did.

Q: It is --

A: That's what they did with women, too, of course, you know. You know that.

Q: Yeah.

A: With women.

Q: And how -- how were you able to deal with this? I mean, I -- I can't imagine what is --

A: I just -- I just did from day to day, that's what you do. You cannot think of tomorrow, or day after tomorrow. You're just so -- I can't believe it, to be honest with you, I think about it night and day. I can't believe it today, that this happened, that this happened, this whole thing. That this happened to me. That I'm still here.

I'm still here. Because it's very stressful.

Q: Of course.

A: Very stressful.

Q: All I could imagine is that it's one nightmare after another.

A: Yes, I do have nightmares.

Q: Still?

A: Ido, yeah. I dream a lot.

Q: And it's about those times? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *deg October 8, 2015

A: Yeah, it's always about power, and not having the power, and being -- can't do what you want to do, somebody's following you. It's always in that direction, yes.

Q: Thank you Gary, for opening up like this. I-- I apologize, and I appreciate it.

A: Yeah, you been very good.

Q: Thank you.

A: You been very good during this.

Q: Thank you. I'm glad to hear at least this much, that you had those decades together with somebody who was good for you.

A: Yes. It was a pi-- we had wonderful friends, wonderful friends.

[indecipherable] didn't make any difference. They were perfect people at my -- but they all have passed on.

Q: And your friend also, your partner, his name again, can you tell me?

A: Anton Rsl.

Q: Anton Rsl.

A: R-s-1.

Q: R-s-l, uh-huh, Anton Rs.

A: Yeah. We went to --1999, we -- we -- we went to Nice. We liked Nice. We went there three or four times. He got very excited one day in a store the last time.

Somebody pushed themself in front of us. He got red in the face, I'll never forget it. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *!

October 8, 2015 Screamed at her. He said, you're like the ger -- like the Germans, the Germans do that. So next day was a special holiday in Nice. I can't -- you probab -- I don't know what holiday it was. It was a Sunday, too. We had breakfast, then we went for a walk. And all of a sudden, he said, I can't walk any more. So I leaned him against the wall, and then I saw a hotel. I managed to get him to the hotel, drank water, then we took a taxi back to the ho-hotel where we stayed, and called a doctor. And doctor -- and Anton was in pajama, laid on top of the bed. Couldn't find peace, couldn't -- couldn't stay put in one position. And the doctor came, opened the hotel do-door to the room, the door. And I had a gold -- gold watch on, hundred dollar watch. He said, oh, you have a beautiful watch on. I thought, uh-oh, that's the wrong doctor. I'm sure that be the wrong doctor. So he examined him. He said, I give him a shot. He be okay in two hours. It was the worst thing he could have done. In two hours he got up, he said -- I said, I'm going to call your friend in Yugoslavia, you talk to him. And I dialed the number, and he just -- he just slumped over. And I -- I caught him real quick, and I was holding him, I -- he probably doesn't know any more. He probably was already gone.

Q: And that's how you lost him?

A: So then I--I wrote a nasty note to the doctor, I said, I'm gonna sue you.

Something is -- something is wrong here. Then I went to here, and somebody, a ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015 nurse, and I showed her what the doctor did. She said, that was the wrong thing to do. He could have lived. He had a heart attack. He needed to be rushed to the hospital.

Q: Oh dear.

A: So that's how he died.

Q: What a bitter end.

A: And then they were so cruel. When he was laying in the bed, there were so many people around him, I don't know what, and I was way back. He had a big cross here, a golden cross. They ripped that off and stole it. They stole that. I mean, they're awful. And then I couldn't get the ashes, I had to wait seven months -- six months I had to wait for the ash-ashes. They said they were -- that their crematorium or the funeral parlor was bankrupt, or something. I got the ashes sitting here. I don't believe it's his ashes. I don't believe it. It's just a tiny little thing, like that.

Q: Anton, had he been arrested? Why was he in concentration camps?

A: Why was he in concentration camps, that's a good question. It has something to do with Tito. Tito was after the students, I believe. I think the students were revolting, many years ago. Do you know anything about it?

Q: So he was not ar -- he was not arrested by the Nazis, he was arrested by the communists? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *8 October 8, 2015

A: No, no, he was in different camps.

Q: He was in different --

A: No, he was in others, he was in --

Q: Are you saying Tizo(ph), or Tito?

A: Tito.

Q: Tito from Yugoslavia.

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: He was Yugoslavian at that time.

Q: I see.

A: But then later -- but his mother was in German concentration camp. They came to the -- they came -- the Germans came to their village, those -- with orange -- everybody out, everybody out, everybody out, and they took over. She had to leave the cows, everything -- everything they all had. And she was put in a concentration camp, but she survived. And he met her after the war. She came to Germany, | remember that very well. This was sit in the park, and -- and she died after that.

Q: Is there anything else, Gary, you'd like to -- like to add to what we talked about today, that you think is important for people to know about? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015

A: I don't know right now, to be honest with you. It went easy, better than I thought.

Q: Oh, good.

A: [had sleepless nights about this, I really did.

Q: I believe you, I believe you.

A: Mm-hm, I did. I really don't like to talk about it, and -- because it's -- it is terrible at night for me, the nights are terrible.

Q: I--I wish there wasn't such a cost, and I appreciate that despite the cost, you have agreed to speak with us. It is -- it is a real gift, and I thank you for it.

A: I thank you for taking the time, and I hope it -- I hope it never happens again like that, but --

Q: [hope so, too.

A: --it's unbelievable, you know?

Q: Yeah. If there is anything that you would like to add --

A: I mean, there's so many little details, it's just --

Q: Okay.

A: The Ukraines for instance, they volunteered to be -- work for the Germans and the -- we -- we were running, and they're having those big peitsche, in German --

Q: Oh, whips, or -- or clubs, clubs. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

A: Yes, like you do -- use for horses.

Q: Yes, whips.

A: They would whip us with those, because we didn't run fast enough. I never forget it. That -- boots on until here, you know, black boots.

Q: To the knees, yes.

A: Yeah. They were terrible, the Ukraines. [indecipherable] working for the Germans. I remember that, too, another incident that I couldn't tell you where it happened, but it did happen to me personally, yes.

Q: I know. How can one collapse four years into two hours? It is -- it is --

A: No, that's it.

Q: -- it's just, you can't do it all.

A: You can't do that, and I've forgotten half of it.

Q: Yeah.

A: You know? It's a good thing that I have.

Q: Yes.

A: Because I'm -- can't -- you don't know any of these seven people from Hamburg, no? They're all dead.

Q: I don't know them.

A: They're all dead. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp *deg October 8, 2015

Q: Wow.

A: But Arthur Menke(ph) worked for the White House, he was an electrician. I think he should be -- he should be in the museum, I'm sure you must have something.

Q: We'll take a look.

A: Arthur Menke(ph).

Q: Arthur Menke(ph).

A: We went to school together, yes.

Q: Also in Hamburg, yes?

A: Yes, and Heinz Rosenburg(ph), Henry Robertson.

Q: Well then, you'll give me their names, and --

A: Henry Roberson, I have a book --

Q: Okay.

A: -- where -- where I'm mentioned, he mentioned my name.

Q: Okay.

A: Twice, I think, or three times, if you want to read it.

Q: I will take a look at it, afterwards, but for right now, what I -- what I'll do is I'll conclude the formal part of our interview, and then maybe we can film some of the photographs that you have, and you can tell us who they are. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Gary H. Philipp " October 8, 2015

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: Okay.

Q: So, with this, this concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Mr. Gary Philipp, on October 8", 2015, in Boca Raton, Florida.

Once more, thank you.

A: I thank you for being so patient with me.

Q: You're welcome.

A: Thank you.

Q: Okay. [break] Okay, tell me, who is this, Gary?

A: That's my father when he was --

Q: Nineteen years?

A: -- 19 years old in Berlin.

Q: Okay, and this was taken in 1913, I believe.

A: 1913.

Q: Okay. And his name again, so that we remember?

A: George Philipp.

Q: Georg(ph) Philipp.

A: And in German, Georg(ph) Philipp. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: Okay. Thank you. Okay Gary, who is this?

A: That's my mother on the right, that's me in the middle, and that's my grandmother --

Q: On the left.

A: --on the father's side.

Q: Okay.

A: Taken 1930, in Hamburg.

Q: You were a cutie. Okay Gary, who is this?

A: That's my father.

Q: As a baby?

A: As a baby.

Q: Oh my goodness.

A: I don't know the year.

Q: Okay. How would you get ahold of such a photograph?

A: My relatives in Spain, who fled Germany, saved them and sent them to me after World War II.

Q: Okay, got that. So he -- Gary, tell me, who is in this photograph?

A: ""m the -- I'm the one in the lederhosen.

Q: In the leather pants. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *deg October 8, 2015

A: And then the third person is my mother.

Q: Okay.

A: And on the far, far left, it's my father.

Q: Okay, then --

A: And the other people were friends of my parents.

Q: Okay.

A: Hoffman(ph).

Q: Oh, that was also Hoffman(ph).

A: Hoffman(ph) in Hamburg again. Hans Hoffman(ph), | think.

Q: All right.

A: Okay.

Q: And this was on Blankensee(ph).

A: Blankanase(ph).

Q: Blankanase(ph).

A: Like -- it's outside Hamburg. Very nice.

Q: Okay. And this was the lederhosen that you weren't allowed to wear any more?

Is that correct?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Okay Gary, tell me, who is here, in this photograph? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp degdeg October 8, 2015

A: That's Anton on the right, and me on the left.

Q: And what year was this?

A: Eighty-five, 1985.

Q: 1985.

A: Yes.

Q: And do you know where?

A: San Francisco.

Q: San Francisco. Okay, thank you.

A: Ask me question.

Q: Okay, so tell me Gary, what is this photograph of?

A: This is in the center --

Q: Okay.

A: -- for Jews in Hamburg. When the airplanes was dropping bombs, we had to go down there. And you see in the far back --

Q: Yes.

A: -- by the curtain, you see doctor -- way to the left, Dr. Besser(ph) and his wife.

Q: Dr. Besser(ph) is with the moustache --

A: Yes, yes, yes.

Q: -- next to that little, round, sort of like switch? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp * October 8, 2015

A: Yeah, I can remember -- I can remember, my mother is somewhere there. She's the third person from the front --

Q: I see that.

A: -- putting her head a little forward.

Q: I see that, from the left --

A: It's my mother, yeah.

Q: -- from the left hand side.

A: Yes.

Q: And you --

A: And ""m--I'm the first one, having that little dog, the little Pekinese dog in my -- in my arm.

Q: And behind you I see this pattern thing, what's that? Is that a --

A: A what?

Q: I see this sort of like sheet that's patterned, what's that?

A: That's a -- that's a curtain to keep the Jews separated from the Aryan people, who were sitting next door.

Q: So that means that when --

A: It's ridiculous, the whole thing is ridiculous, because if a bomb would come down, we would be all killed regardless if we were Jews or Christians. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp deg October 8, 2015

Q: Absolutely.

A: Yeah, absolutely.

Q: Absolutely.

A: Yes.

Q: Thank you. Thank you for showing that. Okay Gary, tell me, who is this?

A: That's my first day in school, 1934.

Q: Wow. And what is it that you're holding?

A: Oh, that's -- every child gets a bag like that, for being a good bo -- a good--a good pupil the first day in school.

Q: Okay.

A: Okay?

Q: Thank you. Okay Gary, what is this photograph of?

A: It's my birthday.

Q: And it what -- that was in sixth of November, what year?

A: I don't know right now. 1936.

Q: Okay.

A: Thirty-six.

Q: Then who's in this photograph?

A: And I was born -- I was nine years old then. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: Nine years old. So who's this?

A: Nine years old. That's me on the far left.

Q: Okay.

A: That's a German lady friend of -- that's my mother, the third person. And --

Q: The other boys.

A: -- Peter -- Peter Peterson, the one that's leaning against the buffet. And then there's a person called Heinz Gaston(ph).

Q: And which one is he?

A: And the other two I don't remember --

Q: Okay.

A: --the names.

Q: Yeah. Heinz Gaston(ph), which one would he be?

A: I beg your pardon?

Q: Which -- who is Heinz Gaston(ph)? Which one is him?

A: The one on the far right.

Q: Uh-huh, on the far right, at the table?

A: Yes. Yeah, I could never locate him after World War II.

Q: Okay. All right. Okay Gary, who is this? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp "4 October 8, 2015

A: That's my mother, on the right. That's my cousin on my father's side, my father's sister's daughter.

Q: And that's you?

A: And that's me.

Q: And where is this? Where -- this is in what part of Hamburg?

A: Right downtown, Alster Lake.

Q: Alster Lake.

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Okay Gary, tell me what is this photograph of?

A: That's the apartment building where I was deported from in 1941, sic -- seven of November.

Q: And do you --

A: And my parents too, of course.

Q: What's the address of this building?

A: Fifteen Bogenstrasse.

Q: Bogenstrasse.

A: Yeah.

Q: In Hamburg.

A: Yes, bo -- bogen means bow. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp degdeg October 8, 2015

Q: Oh, okay.

A: Bow Street.

Q: Bow Street.

A: It's still there.

Q: It's still there. When did you take this photograph?

A: Oh, four -- four or five years ago.

Q: So about 2010 - 2011?

A: We have dates now on the ground, you know that. I thought I had this here.

Q: Okay.

A: You know, they put cobblestone for the people. You know about that, don't you?

Q: A little bit, "ve heard. So that means there -- cobblestones for those who --

A: Some Jewish people don't like the idea. They said, again they're gonna ste -- walk on us.

Q: Oh.

A: They thought it should be against the building, would have been a better idea.

Q: Probably, yeah. Thank you. Okay, so Gary, what is this?

A: Well, it's custom now in Germany, to put cobblestone down for -- for people who were murdered during the third -- Third Reich in Germany.

Q: Okay, and so I see that -- and where is this located? Where are these -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp degdeg October 8, 2015

A: Bo -- at Bogenstrasse, fort -- 15, in Hamburg.

Q: So, in front of the -- in front of the house?

A: In front of the apartment building, yes.

Q: Okay. And it has both your parents, Laurie Philipp, Georg(ph) Philipp?

A: Yes.

Q: Louis Wolms(ph), and Henrietta Wolms(ph).

A: Yes.

Q: So it is noting that they were deported from that building.

A: And -- and slaughtered.

Q: And slaughtered, yes, and --

A: Yeah, only people who were killed get this. If you ali -- if you alive, you don't get it.

Q: Got it.

A: Yeah, you got it?

Q: Got it, okay. Gary, who is this?

A: That's my mother.

Q: Laurie(ph) Philipp.

A: In-- Laura Philipp, at okens -- at Okenbrucfelde(ph). The street doesn't exist any more; it was wiped out during World War II. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Gary H. Philipp *" October 8, 2015

Q: And it's in ham --

A: Completely leveled.

Q: It's in Hamburg?

A: In Hamburg, yes.

Q: Okay. Okay, thank you.

A: It was on a hill like that, so they rebuilt the hill.

Q: So, it looks like that's in the 20s or early 30s, by th --

A: It is.

Q: Yeah.

A: It is early 30s.

Q: Okay. Okay Gary, who is this?

A: That's 1929, I was two years old, that's my mother on the right side, and my father on the left side. But I don't know where it was taken.

Q: Okay.

A: It was part of --

Q: But it's a ho --

A: Most likely Hamburg.

Q: Yeah. But it's all three of you, yes?

A: I beg your pardon? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Gary H. Philipp 8 October 8, 2015

Q: It's all three of you.

A: Yes.

Q: Die ganza familie.

A: Die ganza --

Q: Familie. Thank you. Okay Gary, who is this?

A: That's me. Me, me, me, me, two years old in Hamburg.

Q: In August 19 --

A: August 19, 1930.

Q: Okay. You're a cutie. Thank you.

End of File Conclusion of Interview