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A: No, my mother worked.

Q: Where did she work?

A: With my father in this pharmacy.

Q: Did they own this pharmacy?

A: It was leasing. My mother, she had no degree or nothing. But she was very skilled and she did this technical works but there are a lot in the pharmacy. After they make you read the exam, because I wasn't accepted in the university, I was working there too, two years.

Q: What year was that?

A: That was deg42.

Q: Forty-two. Then you left?

A: High school in deg42, in June and from that time I worked.

Q: What kind of an education did your father have? In pharmacy?

A: He had a degree, a university degree.

Q: In Budapest?

A: What year was your father born?

A: He was born in 1888.

Q: Do you know his birthday?

A: Yes, November 3. My mother was born in 1894, June 29.

Q: What was your father's full name?

A: Eugene, Eugene in English. In Hungarian, it is Jeno. It is J-e-n-o, double dot.

Q: Your mother's full name, including her maiden name in Hungarian?

A: That's a Hungarian name, it means Goldie in English. It is Aranka; A-r-a-n-k-a Ecksdein. E-c-k- s-d-e-i-n.

Q: You told me she was born in the, do you know the town?

A: It was a village, at that time. Now it is a town, Trnovo, that's Hungarian, what is that? Turno, Slovakia. T-r-n-o-v-o.

Q: And your father was born in Budapest?

A: What was his father's name, do you know?

A: I know but I can't tell it in English. He was a dealer, but not in Angoro, not in Small. He was a wholesale of beer. He got it from the factory and he sold it to the restaurants and shops.

Q: Did your father come from a large family?

A: Well, not large because he had four sisters and he was the only boy.

Q: Where was he in the family? Was he the youngest?

A: He was the youngest, yes.

Q: The youngest child? four sisters?

A: Yes. I remember my grandfather but he was retired already when I knew him. I was six, no, seven years old when he died.

Q: Did you know your grandmother?

A: No, she died very early. Both mothers died before I was born.

Q: Your father, how did your father meet your mother?

A: My mother had relatives in Ujpest and he visited them. My mother, that was a big family because there were ten children in the family and she was the youngest. She was sister who was married at 18 in Budapest and they introduced and they met by chance.

Q: Do you know how old, what year did they get married?

A: They were married in 23. Just yesterday, they had the anniversary of their wedding. It was June 17.

Q: Your mother came to Budapest and she was married at the age of --?

A: Twenty-six.

A: Twenty-six?

A: Yes.

Q: And you said she was borin?

A: In 1904.

Q: So she was thirty-two when she got married?

A: No, something is wrong. Twenty-six, twenty- seven.

Q: Okay. Did they settle in the house where you grew up, immediately?

A: Did they---?

Q: The house you were living in as a child. Is that the house they always lived in after they were married?

A: Yes, yes. Because the house belonged to my grandfather. It was a big family house, not so big, but--.

Q: What was the house like, can you describe it?

A: In the American standard, it was a very simple house. Many people were living there because after my grandfather -- after retiring, everything went. He had businesses, he transferred to apartments so many people were living there. Two sisters of my father were living there, one with family. We were living there, my grandfather was living there with another daughter and even many other people. They were small, these were already small apartments. However, we got to about where these people were living .

Q: This was like a city building with different apartments?

A: Yes.

Q: And your family lived in one of these apartments?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: So you just ate with your family? You didn't eat with all these other people, or did you?

A: I knew everybody because everybody -- as a child I was in the yard always. It was a big yard with a garden.

Q: What would you do back in the garden? Play back there?

A: I don't remember. Just played with other children and so on. It was nothing special. These things are not so interesting. I was twelve years old; then we went to the downtown area because it was outside the city, very close to the cemetery.

Q: Your old house was?

A: This old house of grandfather. His business needed every territory. Therefore it was outside of the city. He used to have horses and wagons to transport the beer. This was not in boxes. This was in glasses. It was heavy.

Q: That's interesting. Then you moved when you were twelve. So that would be about ---?

A: In downtown Budapest. That was a very nice apartment already .. Then, first my father was only employee in this pharmacy. Then when the owner died, that he was the caretaker of the

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection pharmacy. Later the widow of the owner saw that it is much better for her if she gives as a lease and my father should create a lease and we more independent as before. With the help of the family, because she was asking a big sum as deposit for the lease. The whole family helped my father to collect this big deposit, uncles and everybody. Also friends, because it was a relatively big sum. It was 40,000 pancs that was in the early thirties. Thirty-four or -- because we didn't move until he had so many debts. When the debts were already, not every single settled, but a large sum was settled, then we moved.

Q: So he was very excited about --?

A: My mother wanted to move because as I've told you this house was a very simple house. Our apartment was rather small and simple too. Then we moved.

Q: So you lived near the pharmacy where you --?

A: Yes, yes in downtown. Ujpest is not a big town. Even now, it is a suburb of Budapest and we went -- it was close to the pharmacy, yes. Walking distance.

Q: Your mother and father continued to work in the pharmacy and you and your brother went back to school. Did you walk to school nearby?

A: Yes, I walked. At that time, everybody walked to school. Now it is a big distance but at that time. My brother had to go back with the streetcar because it was in Budapest, it was far away.

Q: Did your mother worry about him going so far?

A: No, we had to accept this. If the family wanted him to have a better education, then he had to go.

Q: Was he a good student?

A: Yes, yes. He liked to read too. I remember we had to learn and I was reading in on room and he was reading in the other and so we couldn't see each other. We didn't want to. He was a rather good student, yes.

Q: Did you get along with him?

A: Yes, I don't remember.

Q: What did he like to do in his free time, when he wasn't studying?

A: He was a boy. He had a bike. I had a bike too but he was more concerned with the bike. He had friends and played with the friends. His best friend, he used to live very close to us. They went to school together. They went to this high school in Budapest together because he was a Jewish boy too. He wasn't accepted either. So they were good friends and they were --.

Q: What was his friend's name?

A: Yannos John Ray R-e-y-i-c-h-e-r-d. He was killed too. I know even the circumstances, I will

tell you.

Q: You all moved to this house about "35 or "36. It was a new apartment?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: A larger apartment?

A: A larger apartment. And then we --.

Q: You had your own room there or did you share a room with your brother?

A: When we moved there, then he slept in the room of my parents and I had a room for myself.

Then he was older, growing and then he went to this room, the children's room, which was for the children. I was sleeping in the living room on the sofa.

Q: And this apartment had modern conveniences, a modern building. It had electricity and running water?

A: Yes, electricity was in the other too but running water and central heating was --.

Q: An inside toilet?

A: Yes, yes. It was an apartment which is in Hungary of standard wood (?), even today.

Q: Your mother and father, you said you talked with your father about your books, would your mother listen to your lessons, or --? What would she do in the evenings?

A: Yes, she was very busy because she helped my father. Then the housekeeping. We had somebody who was working in the housekeeping, who was the helping her, but she was busy.

It was a nice family life. Listening to the radio and we had --.

Q: You did have a radio?

A: Yes, of course.

Q: You followed the news. Did you get news of what was happening in Germany in the thirties?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Do you remember that?

A: My father used to listen to the English radio every evening. That was very common in Hungary. People used to listen to it. I remember once we too listened to the Russian radio and they spoke about Auschwitz and things like that. That was in the early forties already. My father who was a great humanist thought he can't believe it. It is --.

Q: Your father was a communist?

A: No, he was a humanist,

Q: Oh, a humanist.

A: He thought he can't believe it, that such a thing as these camps can exist. We are in the 20" century.

Q: What camps did he hear about? I'm sorry I didn't --?

A" It was Auschwitz about what we heard in the Russian radio.

Q: It was on the radio?

A: In the Russian broadcasting, it was. The Russians knew everything about Auschwitz. They knew it perfectly. When they bombed Auschwitz, they bombed the SS largenren, not where the Jews were. I remember --.

Q: That was much later.

A: That was later, that was when I was there already. That was in deg44, "45, "44 in December.

Q: But when you were in Ujpest in the late thirties, say 1938, 1939; there was a new right-wing prime minister who came to power in Hungary. That was later, I told you, these radio broadcasts what we heard. That was in the forties, I think it was in "42 or 43.

Q: What was there anything going on in the late 1930's, in the other countries? After Kristallnacht, the atmosphere really deteriorated very rapidly. You did not have Kristallnacht in Hungary.

A: No, in Hungary was nothing. There were these restrictions but they were not so bad. You could live with these restrictions.

Q: What sort of restrictions?

A: What I mentioned already. That you can't enter a university and you can't -- my father couldn't buy a pharmacy. It was not allowed for a Jew to buy a pharmacy. He could only lease a pharmacy and the owner knew it very well and every year he asked more and more for the --.

Q: That was a very old law. I think that that dated from the 1920's, that law about the professions.

It wasn't something that just happened --.

A: It was more restrictions came. Like the time, the old law was not so very, the old law allowed 6% for the university, 6% Jews can enter the university, as I remember, or even more. The old law -- there were restrictions but they were not so strict. At least every Jewish law, it became -- [Male voice: "There wasn't no law against Jews in the twenties. Just they hate the Jews so that no matter work but there was no opposition, not in the Parliament. This was the first in deg39 when they brought this law."

Q: The second anti-Jewish law?

A: [ "The first anti-Jewish law."]

Q: There were two laws?

A: [" Yes, in "39 and on May 14", the second. But one thing what they speak up in the twenties here, there was no law against the Jews" ].

Q: Oh, it was just a policy?

A: [" Just a policy, just a policy").

Q: So it got much harder with these new anti-Jewish laws to enter the university? A lot of Hungarians went to other -- Vienna or?

A: Jews? Not to Vienna, it was very difficult. They went to Italy or to Czechoslovakia. In Bruno it was a German university and many Hungarian engineers started there.

Q: There were also laws restricting what Jews could sell? Like certain items that they couldn't sell any more? Did that have impact on --?

A: No, that was later. In the thirties, such a thing didn't exist.

Q: There was just -- that your father couldn't buy the store which was probably a very big thing for him, that he probably referred to.

Q: Not just this pharmacy, any store. Any pharmacies, not stores, pharmacy. It is a different category.

Q: It's like a professional category. But there were no other restrictions that you can remember that affected your lives?

A: No, no, as children.

Q: So then you graduated from high school in 1942? You said you went to a girls" high school. It wasn't a Jewish high school?

A: No, it was a state-owned high school.

Q: So you had non-Jewish friends?

A: In this class, we graduated twenty-six. Among the twenty-six girls, five or six were Jewish.

From the six, three graduated excellent.

Q: So, in 1942, you graduated and you went to work in the pharmacy?

A: Yes.

Q: And you helped your parents in the pharmacy? And then your life continued until 1941?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Do you want to talk about that?

A: I worked. I liked this work very much. I had a very full life. We went to concerts, to theaters with my friends. That was a regular life then.

Q: Did you have boy friends?

A: Oh, he was in the labor camp. When -- in this forced labor camp and -- but we hoped that he will survive.

Q: When did he go into the forced labor camp?

A: In "40 but he was around in Hungary and he came often home. He could come home for a short visit and so on but he was there. Then it was in "42, September, when he had to go to Russia with this forced labor camp. He disappeared when at nesh when the Hungarian army was destroyed by the Russians. It was deg42, January. He disappeared then and we don't know anything about him but it was still a hope that he will survive maybe, somehow in Russia.

Q: There were a lot of young men who sent to forced labor in 1940?

A: Yes.

Q: That was the period when there was a general call up?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Men between the ages of 18 and 42, I think?

A: Yes, that was that period. Many Hungarian, the Christian went to the army and the Jewish people went to the forced labor camp.

Q: In May of 1944, the Germans invaded _.

A: Not May, that was March, March.

Q: March 19, right? Were there Germans in Ujpest?

A: Everywhere there were Germans, in the whole country. They invaded the whole country.

Q: What do you remember of the invasion?

A: It was a Sunday when they came. We were frightened, very frightened, yes. From that moment, every day and every week, the life was getting harder and harder until this deportation started.

Q: Tell me what happened leading up to the deportation. Were you moved from your house?

A: Yes, we had to leave this apartment. We went to live to the house of this friend of my brother.

They were a from her house and it was a family house. First we were forced to live there two-family; then more and more families. At the end, before the deportation, I don't know we were living there maybe twenty or twenty- four people were already living in this one apartment. It was a family house.

Q: Why were you forced to move in there?

A: To gave up --. They thought that this --. In our apartment they moved in the old Jewish people.

It became -- it was complicated, the whole situation. We passed by in Budapest later, there were houses marked with David Star. The house where we used to live was un over these marked houses. It seemed more better ever the choice to go to live with these friends in this family house as to live in this relatively big house.

Q: Was your friend's house marked also?

A: Yes, it was marked also. Then the marked houses were getting fewer and fewer and we were collecting people with more and more deaths. I don't know exactly how many people were in these relatively small family houses at the end.

Q: When you were able to leave the house during the daytime to go out --?

A: Only, at first we were able, then it was restricted for three hours at the end and so on, then to make some shopping, I don't know what. In the last three days, you couldn't leave the house anymore.

Q: Do you want to talk about that? What it was like for the people in the house?

A: I thought I had life because -- not even one family had a room in this house. We were sleeping with different people. I ate all the marmalades which my mother had with us. I was never so fat in my life as before Auschwitz. Maybe that was my chance.

Q: So you were there with your mother, your father and your brother?

A: The family was there.

Q: What about the grandparents, your grandfather, was he there?

A: I told you, he was dead when I was seven years old.

Q: Then you were there with friends and neighbors?

A: Yes, they were all friends.

Q: Did you have any idea what was going to happen to you?

A: No, these letters came from Valsay because we knew that from the countryside. They started with sn . From the countryside, the Jews were taken away. That we heard for the end.

Then they came --.

Q: You said the letter came from your mother's --?

A: No, no. We heard that some people wrote letters to relatives. We didn't get any like that. But some people got letters from relatives who were taken away and they have written that we are here in Valsay and we are working. But you never heard this name of Valsay? Because that was Auschwitz already. The people were forced to write these letters.

Q: They wrote that from Auschwitz?

A: They wrote, yes. They were forced. It was not letters, it was cards. It was cards and they were forced to write to friends and relatives who are still in Budapest or somewhere in the countryside, that we are here and we are working and everything is okay with us. These letters, I've heard it about these postcards. That was the only thing what we knew. Later, in Auschwitz, I heard --.

Q: Talk about leaving your building.

A: Then, it was just before the birthday of my mother. It was the 28" of June that, do you know what this Hungarian junta (??) mean, have you ever heard it?

Q: Hungarian --?

A: Hungarian junta. Before every Jewish holiday, before every marked house was standing a gendarme that you couldn't leave and nobody could enter the house. Three days they were standing there in the streets of and after --. We told that we should prepare for leaving the house and we can take with us only a very few things. Some clothing and nothing special, no jewel, no food.

Q: No food?

A: Very, very -- just a small something to eat but not too much. After three days we had to leave; we had to leave, we had to go. They collected all the Jewish people from Ujpest and from the suburbs of Budapest because Budapest was encountered with small suburbs. They took all the Jews from the suburbs. All the Jews were collected in a brick factory just outside of Budapest or very close to Budapest. Budakalow. That's the name of the village. It belongs to Budapest now. No, it exists even today. Everybody was collected in this brick factory.

Q: How were you taken there? Were you driven in trucks?

A: By the train. We had to go to the station of Ujpest which is a very small one.

Q: Did you walk there?

A: Walked. We saw the luggages through the whole town. It is a very long road which was called after the war, Marketopoola because of this march. As I know the Hungarian people, they changed it.

Q: How long was it? A kilometer or --?

A: Something like that. The street of the Marchers.

Q: So your family was still all together. All four of you were still all together?

A: Yes.

Q: Your father had not; he was too old for forced labor, or --?

A: He was not too old but he was exempt. He got an exemption because Hungary had, not Ujpest had, the chief physician of the town who was responsible for the town, he was a very good man and a leftist. He told that every pharmacist must be exempt. So my father came back from the labor camp. Because the pharmacy must be open, he told that, become , the pharmacist.

Q: How long was he in the labor camp?

A: Maybe six weeks.

Q: Do you know the name of the camp that he went to or where it was at?

A: It was just very close to the town, very close to Ujpest and to Budapest. Never mind. I don't remember.

Q: What did he do there?

A: Nothing. It was just a camp for collecting people.

Q: He didn't work?

A: I don't think so. Probably he was only four weeks there.

Q: In 1940?

A: In 1940. No, later, later. That was later. It was 1941 or something like that. Then he was exempt.

Q: Did your mother run the pharmacy while he was gone?

A: No, no. We had help in the pharmacy. My mother couldn't run a pharmacy because she had no degree. We had somebody, an employee. Later this employee had to go to the army and then father was alone.

Q: So, you're going to the railroad station to go to the brickyard?

A: Yes.

Q: How long were you on this train?

A: That was only some hours. That was very close to Budapest. It takes twenty minutes to go there. We were several hours there but it is so close to Budapest. Then we went there and we stayed there for a week. That was the hell of everything, this brick factory, because we were in the open air, nothing was there, no facilities, nothing. One or two wells for water, that was drinking water and everything. You couldn't wash yourself, you had to sleep on the earth. If you had some blanket, then you were lucky. As I remember, we had some blankets but it was summer and it was no rain, but that was the hell of everything. Then they started to make the convoys, or how to call it, the groups to Auschwitz. The Germans came --.

Q: They were Germans?

A: They were Germans, together with the Hungarians. Germans.

Q: The SS?

A: Yes, I think so. Then they put people in these wagons.

Q: Were you and all your family still together?

A: Yes, yes. We were in the last group who left this and it was the last transport. We lasted three or four days. This one bucket, it was two buckets. One bucket for water, one bucket for the

. You could empty maybe two or three times, these buckets; we were all cramped in. As it was the last transport, it was not so crowded, these wagons, as usual, because there were not so many people -- already dead. We were only 70 or 80, not more but that was much too. I remember that my father told me during the first night, we were sitting so, that I never thought that your first journey abroad will be like this. Because that was my first journey abroad. I was in my twenties.

Q: Were you all still well when you were on the cars or were you sick or were you still well?

A: No, I was still well.

Q: And your parents were still well?

A: Yes, everybody was.

Q: You had some food to eat?

A: I don't remember. Maybe we had something to eat. I remember that we got something to eat through this week; that a neighbor brought us something to eat. From Budapest, somebody brought some food for us.

Q: Really, to the brickyard?

A: To the brickyard. He was not allowed to come in but somehow he got in.

Q: A Christian?

A: A Christian, yes. For us and for the Reyicherds. We were together with this family, a friend of my brother and with his parents until Auschwitz. But his parents were older, more older; he was a late child. They were sick people; they were fat and sick. They never entered the camp.

He entered so they were, you know how it was.

Q: Do you want to talk any more about the train or --?

A: The train was awful, as I told you. Maybe, even at Kasha. Of course, at that time it was Hungary but after the First World, it was Slovakia and it is Slovakia even today. A Hungarian gendarme came to the wagon and told we should give everything we have then, I think it was a private business that we should give everything which we have from Ladaad or if we have anything, water, somebody had nothing. Anyhow, the German will take everything from us and we should give it to him. That was the last Hungarian I have spoken with.

Q: Did you give him anything?

A: No, we had nothing.

Q: Where did you get the photos? How did you save the photos?

A: From friends or from relatives. It was not with us -- I got it from relatives.

Q: You had nothing with you?

A: Nothing with us. We had some baskets with us. Everybody had a small luggage. Nothing interesting.

Q: No books or --?

A: No. They didn't allow to take. In this apartment in Ujpest, they checked everything what you take. If it was a better thing, or something, you are just not allowed to take it with you.

Q: So you arrived at Auschwitz. Did you know you were in Auschwitz?

A: No.

Q: Was there a sign or anything?

A: No, no.

Q: You didn't know where you were when you stopped?

A: No, no. We learned it very soon where we are. But the name didn't tell us anything yet.

Because Jewish people were working at the train as well. Then it was this selection. My whole family went into the -- father, brother were together and I was together with my mother. We entered camp.

Q: None of you were selected out?

A: We were not selected out.

Q: But there were a lot of people, the older ones and the babies were immediately selected. They never entered the camp?

A: They never entered. I have to tell you that was my first, that is even today, one of my worst memories. That we were all already -- Everybody had to bathe, to take a bath, that it was worth that or it was the gas. Everybody had to take everything off and even the hair was cut. We were already without anything. Then the German people were there; they realized that there was a girl with an orthopedic shoe. So one leg was shorter than the other. They took and they realized when she was naked. They took the naked girl out and took her away, naked as she was, because of the foot. Now, I know, later I know that she was taken to the other room to be killed. Because they realized that only when she was naked.

Q: Did you know this girl?

A: No, no. Only I remember the whole story. I have seen the whole story. At that time, I didn't understand, of course, what was happening. But I have the whole picture in my eyes. She was taken naked and killed.

Q: She was, how old?

A: Eighteen. A nice young girl. At that time, I used to have very beautiful hair. It was more light than now; it was a very nice color. Now, it is getting dark with age but you saw ---. It was fair and a bit reddish. My mother was very proud of it and when they cut my hair, she just thought, oh your beautiful hair! I remember. Then we entered this thing and then we met the girls from Czechoslovakia who were there already three years. Only a few of them remained alive after three years and they were the kapos, not kapo, lageraltester. They were who ruled the barrack.

Lageraltester that was the end of the whole lager.

Q: They were Jewish?

A: They were Jewish. Every barrack had a head. Lageraltester, that was the German name. They were these Czechoslovakian girls. They were telling us just at the beginning, do you see the smoke there? That is your relatives, your parents. I didn't want to believe it. I was a humanist like my father. I remembered that we had a dead person in our wagon already when we arrived to Auschwitz. I told my mother, they are so, I'm sure many people were dead during this long journey. Therefore the crematorium is running because they have to get rid of the dead people.

I didn't believe that they were killing the people. But later on, very soon, I knew they were right.

Q: Your father and brother had gone into a different part of the camp?

A: Yes, because men were separated and women were separated. So I was together with my mother.

Q: Did you see your brother and father again?

A: I have seen my father once with some others. What we did with this lager where we go. That

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection was, in Birkenau, Auschwitz is the main lager and we can now six kilometers away. When the Hungarian people came, these last transports of this brick factory, it was called the sigarnalaager, gypsy lager. The number of the lager was called 32C. Later, I learned that the gypsy people were living there with family. It was a family lager. They killed them before the Hungarian Jews were brought there because they needed the place. Very few gypsies who were in Auschwitz survived Auschwitz. Most of them were killed at that time. We came there and the second day or the third day, we were newcomers. We were very stupid. We didn't know the regulations. For instance, we got some bread. Then people were coming and telling if you give me a piece of bread, I give you this pot and you can eat from this pot. One of my friends bought a pot to have a pot from barrack. Later on came, not the Germans, Port, "toot" and then came another one and took it away because it was not allowed to have the pot. The pots were distributed before getting the food and then it was collected again. You couldn't own a pot and the people who sold the pot for bread knew it but she was hungry. Morika, that was Morika.

We were stupid and I don't know, somehow, they arranged a transport from Yangers and we were standing there and one person was missing. I think one person was running away from this transport and they needed somebody. We were standing there with mother and they just took me and pushed me in this transport and we were separated. If 1 were not so stupid, some days later, I would run away again but I didn't run away. That was the transport, I was separated from mother. Then they took us to the next lager, took we to be which had only the wire, which was separated with this electrical wire from the other one where mother remained.

I was there. I sleep and I heard they wanted to send for work, these transports. But it turned out that somebody had scarlet. Scarlet fever from these transports. So they stopped all the transports and we had to remain there. So mother was here and I was there. I could speak to her. It was not so easy but I have spoken to her every day, but in the very early morning because there were these towers in Auschwitz and in every tower was a German, an SS. If he thought that at the wire, there are too many people, he shot. I have seen with my eyes two girls who were shot. One was speaking with her sister who was on the other side and one was speaking with her mother. I have seen two girls who were shot.

Q: It was risky?

A: It was risky. So I told mother, I will come only in the very early morning when he is still sleeping and not awake. We spoke every day. Inthis__, to me it was better because this was people whom they wanted to go to work. The circumstances were better here than with mother and I had more to eat and I could give to mother something to eat.

Q: What was your mother doing?

A: Nothing, very few people were working. We didn't work either in this other. There were very few kommandos, that was the name of it, who were working. They were kommandos who made the cleaning. They were big barracks as restrooms. I don't know how sees that, not sees, look, pause. Clean the lageraltster, the roarinder, yes, to take the garbage. These were chariots, wagons pulled by people.

Q: Oh, carts.

A: Yes, carts pulled by people. These people worked, there were very few Ausen, it was called Ausenkommando who went out of the lager to work but it was very, very few relatively. The most did in Auschwitz, it was a fam , it was a killer. That they killed the people. In those

lager, there was no --, nothing just to stay --. What is oppel what is oppel?, you know what is oppel? Have you ever heard of ---?

Q: No.

A: They can eat twice a day, everybody. You had to stay there hours and hours until they finished it. That was twice a day and then nothing. They give food to us and that was ---. I asked the broker , the head of the block realized --. We discussed with father that maybe we can get together before Auschwitz. If they ask what is my profession, I should answer that I am a student of pharmacy. Because I knew --.

Q: Your father told you to say that?

A: Yes, yes. That will be in that time that he will tell you that pharmacist, that maybe we can get food together. That was the main idea.

Q: You were very close to your father?

A: Not -- the family could sort of -- that was a big hope of my father -- that the family can stay together through the profession. But it didn't work. This head of the block realized when everybody was asked what is the profession, I am, I told that I am a student of pharmacy. She told me then that I should care of the hygiene and everything of the block, that was a job for me.

If somebody is ill, because in these -- there was a Jewish physician --. If somebody is ill, I should take her to the doctor and so on. I got some medication. It was mainly aspirin. If somebody needs aspirin, I should give her. I got from this doctor, something. They liked me very much, these doctors. I remember that. I realized that if I give aspirin to somebody that she will sell it for bread. Then I told her if you need aspirin, bring a glass of water or something and you have to take it before me. I would have give anything for bread, but I didn't want that I gave somebody an aspirin that she should sell it. Then I had --.

Q: So you would watch them take it?

A: Yes, yes. She had to take it before me, in front of me. If she really needs it, then she should take it. That was this life, everyday life. I had this occupation, I had to go to the (r__--) and I had to ask for aspirin. They had it because people were bringing you the . We had also a small amount and they were taken away. They took everything at the end. Then in these storage, they selected everything. You can see in the museum, even now big piles of glasses as it was selected. People who worked in the storage, that was the best occupation.

Q: These people who took the aspirin, it probably didn't help them?

A: If you had a headache, or if you had a back , it could help you, the aspirin.

Q: Were there a lot of people sick? How long were you in this barracks?

A: I was all the time, in Auschwitz.

Q: How many months?

A: That lasted till October. From July to October.

Q: Do you remember the exact date that you entered?

A: I think it was the 6" of July. I don't know the exact date.

Q: You were there until October?

A: These period when I was, how to tell it? When I had this duty and things and the people were there.

Q: Were all the people in your barracks, they weren't all Hungarians?

A: They were all Hungarians, yes.

Q: They were all Hungarian Jews?

A: All Hungarian Jews from different parts of the country. It was a selected -- they were all young.

Most of them were young.

Q: How old was the oldest? I mean, the youngest?

A: Maybe eighteen.

Q: Oh, that old?

A: That old. Fourteen was the youngest who could enter the lager and these very young people, they were together. Once I met the friends of my brother, later on. They were working together, it was one group. Maybe the oldest was 40 in this group that I was

Q: Did you have your own bed, or did you share a bed?

A: Bed! There were no beds in Auschwitz. There was a sprrech. ["Wooden"]

Q: There were no bunks or anything like that?

A: No.

Q: So you all lay on the floor?

A: That was three storage.

Q: They were like wooden --? That's what I mean -- bunks.

A: Yes, three bunks. It was placed, something was on the --, some soft thing was on the platform.

You had some blankets. But, it was summer, it was not so bad. Maybe we were sleeping there six or seven in a bunk. That was not too crowded because these bunks were big enough.

Q: So you might have been sharing yours with another girl?

A: Yes, we had a common blanket, this other girl.

Q: Do you remember the girl you shared it with?

A Yes, but --.

Q: She was there the whole time with you?

A: No, no. I have to tell you the end of the story. Not end, continuation of the story. I remember my twentieth birthday that was October 13". It was a very ugly day because somehow later, they brought Polish people to this . Polish people with children. I don't know from where they came. For instance, the head of the barrack where I was, she gave -- she liked very much one of these children. She was three years old, the child. She was born in a camp already. A baby girl. She was there with her mother. Somehow, she like this child and she gave her food every day for this three years old girl. That was my anniversary when they collected all these Polish children, to kill; to take them away and kill them. The child, this small child, whom I knew through this head of the barrack, whom I see often, she was taken away too. Then I asked the head of the barrack, will they kill all the children? And she told, oh yes. Then we knew already what is happening. The big head of the , when the selection was, the big trucks came to the lager and people were just, were black. For instance, after a selection for which they made, nude, the naked people were just thrown on the platform of this van and taken away. These children were just thrown on this platform and taken away. They collected the children, put in this and that was my twentieth birthday.

Q: They separated, just took them from their mothers?

A: Yes, yes. ["Where did they come from" I don't remember, from a camp, from a Polish camp where the family --. Jews born Polish, not all were Jews. The Polish people were not all Jews in Auschwitz, but I think they were Jews. You could, the political --, these three angles, everybody had a number and these three angles, you see my number. The people who were to be lager, they all got numbers. My mother, never. That was also a distinction. That we were more valuable people, we got numbers.

Q: The children, did they --? How long were they in your barracks before they were taken away?

A: These Polish children? How long were they --? Maybe several weeks, not long. Then I had one very, an adventure? That was maybe in September. Do you know the name, Sonderkommando? Have you ever heard it? No. The Sonderkommando, not Jewish but from the camp, who were working at the crematoriums. They had hard work but they got enough food but that, after a while, they killed all the people of the Sonderkommando and they choose new one. That was a regulation. That they must be killed because they have seen everything -- how they keep people, how they gas them and so on. At one of the crematoriums, the Sonderkommando knew that they will kill them. Somehow, they had, because it was a factory very close to Auschwitz, that they made something, I don't know how to tell it, where they made for the guns.

Q: Ammunition?

A: Yes, ammunition, yes. It was an ammunition factory and some people were there. Somehow, this Sonderkommando through a girl who was working there, got ammunition. They blew up the crematorium and tried to escape in the commotion. But they didn't succeed. I have seen it because it was so that; there were people in the block who had to bring the food for, the evening food. I was just there in the barrack and had nothing to do and one of the girls told me, Eva come and help us to bring the food for the evening. We will get fromesh, it was in boxes, you know, you have to --.

Q: Cheese.

A: Cheese, we will get cheese and to help us to bring the cheese. I went there and we had to wait at the kitchen. Beside the kitchen was a small hill and we had to wait there. I went to the top of this hill just to look at___.

Q: On the top of the --?

A: Of this small hill which was beside the kitchen; maybe it was from garbage.

Q: Oh, hill, okay.

Q: I have seen this --.

A: It was a big explosion?

A: A big explosion.

Q: There were people killed in the explosion?

A: No, no. Ihave seen the SS. It was very close, the road, the lager road. The kitchen was close to the lager road and I have seen how the SS people are running after the explosion to the crematorium. They were so, it was so unexpected that they were just taken aback in running, do you understand me?

Q: Yes.

A: It turned out that this was the revolution of the Sonderkommando. They could recollect everybody, nobody could escape. They even managed to know who was the girl who gave the ammunition and they killed everybody, including the girl.

Q: Was that done publicly?

A: I'm sure it was publicly. It was in a different area of the --.

Q: Right.

Tape 2

A: That is interesting. As I told you we were not, we hadn't seen the execution but all the news we

get, we get to know all the news. It was a communication, how to tell it. . The girl http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection was taken and she was killed too and nobody could escape. That's it, what I wanted. That is what I wanted to tell you. It was so that it was the custom or how to tell it, that when they brought new transport with the train, then it was blockspera, it means that you couldn't leave the barrack where you were. You had to stay there all the day, not to see. But somehow, --. I remember when they brought new people. For instance, from Slovakia, they first, as ve told you, only the girls were taken away. The unmarried girls. For instance, one, a cousin of mine who used to live there was taken because she was unmarried but two others who were married could stay there. They were taken later on in September from Slovakia to Auschwitz. I remember when they brought this transport, when the transport was coming and how few people could enter the lager. Maybe, I don't know how many they brought. After my mother, because a sister of my mother used to live in Yeetro and the whole family. I told mother that they were brought, I have spoken to people who entered the lager and so I knew that they were taken and that nobody among them, entered the lager. I remember that I told mother that your sister came and her family, her two daughters and husbands, and grandchildren and nobody entered the lager.

Q: When was that?

A: That was in September. Later they brought from this mustalager from the , they brought later people. Then in autumn, I don't know when they began to empty Auschwitz. They wanted to evacuate. They destroyed in the late -- that was later, they destroyed the crematoriums. Only one is left. In the men's lager in the fall. Because in Birkenu there were four crematoriums. They were not enough. They destroyed all the four crematoriums but that was later. But they began to evacuate. In October, they took my mother from this __lager. I remember it was this blocksperen this closed thing but I was so nervous because of the mother and I wanted to know what happens because it was a big selection. Who were found good enough, they were taken away and I was told that they will bring them to _ lager but that wasn't true. Who were not healthy enough, they were killed. I remember it was October, it was Nocterine; the day was not yet cold, it was a nice day. I was sitting in a hole all the day. From there I could see what happens in the C-lager where the mother was.

Q: You were hiding in a hole?

A: Yes, because I was so anxious to see what will happen to my mother. I wanted to see what happens. I couldn't see much but it was a better feeling to sit in this hole. Then they took mother and she was taken to Bergen-Belsen that I knew.

Q: How did you know that?

A: She was not there any more. Maybe I have spoken to somebody who knew her but I knew that.

Before she was taken away, I have forgotten to tell you that it was a transport and all my friends went with this transport from our block, everybody was taken to work. Some back to Czechoslovakia, I learned later. I was starting with them, I went, every transport was the same - - that you had to go to the main scrag of the lager and then they selected you and from then you were taken away. I went with them to this place. Then I felt that I can't go away; the mother is here. I can give her food, I can see her, I can't leave my mother here and I just escaped and went back. I didn't went to the transport. Then I was smart then, at that time I was smart enough, I knew that nothing will happen. When the number is filled, they will take the

transport and finished.

Q: They won't miss you?

A: They won't miss me. In the evening, I told my mother I couldn't go away. I remain here.

Somebody was with my mother and other mother who had three daughters in the group. She ask me do you know anything about my three girls? I told her yes, they went. She said, oh they left me here. To tell the truth, they were smart. Later it turned out, when I was at home, it was years and years after, I met a girl, I met a girl with whom I slept under one blanket. She told me that this transport was already good. They went to a small town somewhere in Czechoslovakia.

They worked in a factory. The work itself was not too hard. The people in these small towns were very helpful. They gave them food whenever they could. Only one person died. It was six hundred people and only one died, one of them with natural -- something happened to her.

That was not a bad trip. All the others came back.

Q: Do you know what they were making in the factory?

A: I don't know exactly. I was not so interested in that kind of factory. It was maybe a textile or something. She worked in Tunsaran. She was from Budapest but she worked in Tunsaran and so she was as the sister of your friend.. So she was taken away. It was not allowed to commute, the Jewish people couldn't commute. They were exempt, they saw they are exempt and they worked in Tunsaran and they used to leave that. Then the German took everybody who was working in Tunsaran. Tunsaran is a big factory which exists even now in Hungary. The bulbs, they are making bulbs and --.

Q: Oh, light bulbs.

A: Yes and it was a very important thing and the first Jewish people who worked there were exempt. They can stay there and work.

Q: This was in Budapest?

A: It was Ujpest, the suburb. So that is that. It is one of the biggest factories in Hungary. So I couldn't go away and some weeks later, mother was taken away. I told myself, now it is no reason to stay here any more and I go away with the next transport. The next transport where I went, which was chosen, went from one part of the lager to the other part. That was the whole transport. It was the oldest part and all the circumstances were much worse. It was Ausenkommando, I told you, we had to work. We had to dig potatoes inthe pun___--.-~ We had to put potatoes in heaps and cover with earth. It was raining, everything was wet; all the potatoes got rotten. One day we were -- and it was a very heavy work because you had to carry it across; it was a hard work. You had to carry the potatoes. One day it was put there, the other day we had to remove them from there. It was silly work only it was very, very difficult, very hard work. In this potato, I got ill very soon. I was not so strong any more. I never was a strong person and I got ill. In the meantime, the evacuation of the camp was continued and we were taken from this old part of this lager back to where I used to be, back to this relatively new part, this B2B where I have known all the physicians. Them I felt ill and I was ill and I sent to these physicians whom I knew and they put me in this rever , you know what arever | is, it was a small hospital where ill people could stay as long as they were not selected. At that time, the selection was not as bad any more. After they knew the crematorium didn't work. I

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection hoped that maybe if I can regain force andifI gototherev__ that wasintherev__ you didn't have to stay this active (?) because that was awful, to stay and stay and it was cold and it was dark in the evening. What happened to me during this potato work --one day we had blocksperesh where we had to stay in the barrack. We had to come back from the potato field to stay in the barrack. [had one only _ to sleep, underwear. I hated it, you can imagine. I hated it, it was so --. I have worn it day and day and day after this one only thing. We were there and I thought -- I washed it and it was wet. We went to sleep and the wet underwear was somewhere there. It was stolen. So it was November and I had to stay the opel and I had no underwear. Even today, I am very sensitive. I got cold, you notice, the weather and even today I suffer with it. Then, it was some days I was walking without this underwear and then we went somewhere there was a bath, where there was warm water and you could take a bath, there and somehow there, we manages to buy for me, I was with a friend together -- I always looked for a friend to have somebody, not to be alone -- and this was a very good friend of mine. We went there and we bought for a bread because we had, in this work, in this potato work, we got more bread than usual. We had bread and we bought for me underwear, warm underwear for one bread. We put together our -- and then I had it. I remember it was such a cold, I got such a bad cold, because to stay out as long without underwear, that I had diarrhea and I had to urinate always, I was really ill. It was while we were standing in the opel and I found that I must go up.

I told Markget, I'll sit down and I'll manage my work. She began to cry, Eva don't do it. If the German will see you, what you are doing, she will kill you. She will hit you, beat you until you are dead. I told her, I can't help, I must. I had the chance, I was not seen. It was dark already and so I could manage it. I felt that I must do it because otherwise -- it was stupidity because standing is possible --but I hated it. To get dirty.

Q: It sounds horrible. You stayed in Auschwitz --?

A: Yes, then I -- I missed the schedule because that was during this potato work, all these things that we bought for me the underwear and that we had to stand. What I thought then, decided to ever _ this old part of the lager and we went back to this B2B which was one of the best parts of the lager. Then the physicians who knew me took me to the revier, to the small hospital. But I missed you a very important -- I missed a very important detail of the potato. In this potato field, we worked together, Ukrainian girls who were from the countryside, who were big and strong and for whom this work was nothing special. We used to live in the same block together with them. They were very, very rude with us. In the morning they took -- in Auschwitz you are not allowed to drink water, there is no drinking there, many people died because they drank this water and typhus, I don't know what and died in diarrhea. They took the -- in the morning they brought tea. It was not tea but it was something but it was boiled water. They took this hot water and they washed themselves in it. We remained, we didn't get anything to drink in the morning, so they were so rude. We had to go to the kitchen and steal tea which is a stupidity to steal boiled water but we had to drink something. If the German see us, that we are stealing the tea from the kitchen, it would be a bad story. We had to do it because we knew we have to drink and we are not allowed to drink the water. That was our drink for the whole day. Then they carried a big -- these Ukrainian girls , they were strong -- and they carried many potatoes.

We can't keep up with potatoes in this carriage. She told the German officer, look, the Jew has so few potatoes and I am carrying so much. We managed to escape somehow from the German that she couldn't observe that we are carrying a few, only on the bottom of this thing. But she told the German, look what they are doing. Then we got hit. We were beaten, They were really very, very -- ["So they were not Jewish"] No, no. They were from the countryside. I can't help but these are my memories from the Ukrainian girls. They were even worse than the

Germans with us. That was the end of my working career in Auschwitz, when I got to this revier. I don't know why, I could do eel and eel. I couldn't recall why.

Q: It's still 1944?

A: That was 1944, that was November, late November already. In Auschwitz, there were two reviers for ill people, not two parts, two sections. One was the E section for women, it was only one and F section for men. In the small revier, in B2B, they couldn't help me and if you are more serious ill, you had to be taken to this E section. I was taken to this E section and later I met one girl of Ujpest, of my town, saw me when I was taken to the E section -- not alone, with several people. She told me later in Ujpest, I was sure that you are taken to be killed. I never thought that we will again meet each other here in our town because I was so upset and I was sure that you were taken away to be killed ["Who?"] I tell you later. I don't know only the name but several times I have met her in Ujpest. I was taken to this E sector and that was maybe December already. In January, 18" of January, and I was bad, and I had malaria because I had temperature; the temperature rose suddenly disappeared. I had four or five of these and I was again without a temperature. I was there with many other people. It is January. It was told that everybody who can run, who can walk have to go and to leave the camp. A transport will go and it was told that there are no trains, you have to walk. All my clothing was __ wrong, it was greenish, something green and the very same one and a pair of shoes.

Q: That's all you had?

A: That's all what I had.

Q: A dress and a pair of shoes?

A: When you get ill, they take all your dresses.

Q: Oh, so you just had the gown, the nightshirt?

A: Nightshirt and a pair of shoes. But then we managed some and everybody in the revier had clothing. But somehow, we managed to get clothes. Then it was not the strict order anymore.

My friends brought me some clothes. It was a coat and a Jacket. I got some clothes. Then it was a full day, everybody got a loaf of bread and it was told that everybody who can walk must go. Then we were some young girls and we decided not to go. We thought we are not strong enough, we cannot walk. They will kill us if we can't walk. The only chance to survive is to stay here and to see what will happen. That's the only chance. If we go, we are sure that we will be killed. We were maybe five girls. We decided to stay and we will see at that time, we had the clothes ___ and we will see what will happen. I remember it was a girl there from the first group whom I knew from the first group when I was first time in the B's, 2B, and she was rather ill. She wanted to go and she decided to go. I told her but you are ill, you can't walk.

But I want to be alive -- that was her answer. It was so funny, I didn't answer anything but it was that I want to be alive as well. Therefore, I want to stay here and she went. I don't know what happened to her but it was so striking to me, I want to be alive. That was her answer. We stayed there and we were there more than one week alone.

Q: Just the five of you?

A: No, two thousand, seven hundred, I don't know how many, ill people. Everybody was ill and sick. Of course, there were other people who had the same idea then. It was a big battle, very close to Auschwitz, a big battle, where Res__is, very close. At the river, was a big battle. It lasted two days. It was on the 27", we have seen and we have heard the battle. That was our chance. We had no electricity in the camp and we had no water. Itwas_ sin the case of fire, this water, because there was running water in the camp. It was not anymore running.

We had fuel, we had coal to heat, we could heat the barrack. Many people died during these ten days. Because all of them were ill people who stayed there; some of them were well.

Q: You didn't have very much to eat"?

A: We had this bread and then somehow, people managed to get from the storage, some food. I remember we got beans and we cooked it 24 hours in this fire. It never got soft, but we ate it. It was so old that it -- we just wanted to cook it in water. We had something to eat. was a big thing. On the 27" when the cannon, in the morning everything it was silence, stopped, the cannon stopped and everything stopped. At noon, the first Russian soldiers arrived to the camp.

They were wearing this white gown, it was winter. At twelve o'clock, I went to bring some coal to heat this, because it was a long, long oven along the whole barrack which could be heated. It was not warm but it was not ice cold in the barrack and we could heat it some of. We went to bring fuel and then we have seen the first two soldiers who were coming. That was the first camp where they found living people. People who were alive. They passed already, the Russian army, passed already Treblinka and Majdanek and nobody was there alive. It turned our that Auschwitz was undermanned too but I had no time anymore to do anything. They just run away, the Wehrmacht army never came to the camp who were fighting back. The SS run away and the Wehrmacht didn't come. In the afternoon came a high ranking officer, a Russian officer, early afternoon. He went in every barrack, it was only two parts of Birkenau. He told us that this is a surprise for them; that they can find here people who are living. They are not prepared for that. They can't give to eat anything else but tea and sweet. That they bring as much as we want and he will promise that in five days we will have everything to eat. That was our chance. Because these ill people who were starved, that they couldn't eat anything else but tea and sweet, that was the best solution for them. American and English soldiers made a big fault when, for instance in Bergen-Belsen, the English people gave food, rich food for these people. We know it because a cousin of his was there and many people died because of the rich food. Here in Auschwitz everybody had to eat because they had nothing. But in two days, we got food already, not in five, in two days they could give us food. Then they took everybody from Birkenau to the main lager where the barracks were bleak. It was an old soldier camp from the Polish army, the main camp in Auschwitz. Everybody was taken there from these wooden barracks/ Everybody was -- it was a military hospital for at least ill people. Sorry to say, there were many people who died later on because they were so ill, that they couldn't be cured. I must say that maybe they had not the best and the most up-to-date medication, but they were very, very careful. I got the best treatment, the best care. I thought and I am -- and then afterwards I went down. You were elevated. They didn't have to keep me anymore and I was very, very ill. When I went in my -- four people were very Ill afterwards and I was one of them.

I was 27 kilos that was the lowest weight because I couldn't eat. I got more to eat and better there than anybody else. They couldn't eat it. 1 got every day an egg and milk, it didn't help me. What was the most important, I got a weight gain. Somebody had to sit beside me, beside my bed all the night and to tell the physician if I don't feel well. Somebody helped me, to call the physician. One night, I was really very ill. I remember the physician was standing beside me. I don't remember when I lost consciousness but I remember that the physician stood beside

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection me and was feeling,my pulse and asking me do you feel better now? I told her yes, now I feel better. Because in the evening, I told the person who had to sit beside me, he was a man. That I feel very bad today. I had a very bad day today. I don't know when I lost my consciousness but the doctor was there. In the morning came, it was called in Russian, a Stiab. It is a German name that it was a military staff and the head was a physician and he was a colonel and he knew everybody. That was in the night and at 8 o'clock in the morning, he was at my bed and asked me what happened to you, in the daytime you were not so ill. I have seen you at noon and everything was okay with you and what happened to you in the night that you were so ill? He knew everybody and he visited and from that time, I remember, that several times at midnight, I awake that he is standing at my bed and feeling my pulse, my heart rate. He knew everybody, he was an excellent person.

Q: You didn't have any contact with your father, your brother there?

A: They were taken away in September, from Auschwitz. I was there. I am the only person who remained in Auschwitz. They were taken to Mierdoff. It is in Southern Germany, Bavaria, Southern Bavaria. I know because I got everything. My father was dead in December, my brother survived him and my brother died in March, three weeks before they could liberate his camp. Actually he fell asleep during the night. That's a typical test of the starvation. He fell asleep. I know that his heart was very -- because of the starvation and everything -- his heart was not good.

Q: Your father and brother left Auschwitz in September. Was this for labor or --?

A: It was another camp. I don't know -- don't ask logic. There was no logic, one camp was like the other. They don't wanted you to work; they wanted you to die. In these big camps, there was very few work. It was, then it was like this F

Q: Someone from Budapest told you later about what happened to your -- some survivors?

A: Yes. Actually, a cousin who came from Transylvania and who found my brother dead in this camp by chance. He was in camp and he could move. That is a good feeling, he was not alone and this cousin could give some food for him. He was very happy, the cousin told me that he is not alone and he had somebody. So this was not so bad. The physicians who were there, they have no wonder that he will die, he is so ill that he will die.

Q: Your father was also ill? Did you know anything about --?

A: I don't know how. In my opinion, I told you my father was a humanist. He died because of illness, that's my theory, but because that was such a great disappointment for him in mankind, that such a thing could happen, that people can treat people like that, that this disappointment, because of this, he gave up.

Q: You never saw your brother or your father after you entered Auschwitz?

A: I told it at the beginning, I have seen once my father. I told you that was this kommando, this garbage kommando that people, this cart was driven by people. It was at the place where they collected garbage. My father was not in this garbage kommando but somehow he arranged that he could go out from the lager with this garbage. The garbage of our lager was taken there. He

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection told this kapo who was from our lager that she should bring me. What happened because the number. If you leave, not the person was important, but the number. Ten people are driving the cart, they can go, eleven not, but ten can go. I was told go to the garbage kommando; they will take you out and you can meet your father. I met my father. Unfortunately, with the previous transport, my brother was there too, but then I was not there. I could see my father and I hardly recognized my father because he looked like, before Auschwitz like on this photo, he looked so young, not white hair or nothing. Then he was white and very, very old. Therefore, I tell you that was a disappointment in the whole mankind which took him away and not any of this. I met him in the garbage.

Q: How long did you talk to him?

A: Five minutes. You had to bring the garbage and to take it.

Q: You just exchanged news about your mother and brother?

A: Yes, yes. Five minutes. This Auschwitz number is 8-13160.

Q: Is there anything else that you want to tell about your experiences before the liberation?

A: The story with my illness. I told you that I was one of the four most ill persons. This Russian military hospital was dissolved in "45, September. In "45 September, I was certified (??) tuberculosis already and they took me to Krakow because I couldn't walk yet. They took me to Krakow, the university clinic. Ten more months, I had to stay there. I was there and I returned to Hungary 46, the 1 of August. It was very difficult for me to come back, I had no documents, only one small paper which I got from the Polish Red Cross that I was this number and with my name, that I was liberated in Auschwitz by the Russian army. It was written on this paper that everybody is asked to help me get home. In "46, everybody was at home already, or everybody died, and I had to walk to Ka__ to the Red Cross and they couldn't arrange me to go home, the permission to go home. I went to the council, to a high- ranking officer in Ka__ I know who he was. I was told if I give him sum, I can leave the camp. He will give me document and I can go wherever I want but I have no money. He told me if I go, that the paper that you have is nothing. If I go to the Russian people, I can get the same paper from them. It is nothing like you have. I was very angry. I decided that I will go to the State Department in Russian. I have to find somebody who will believe me, that I am Hungarian and a Jew and I have to go home. From Ka __, the Red Cross gave me fare, the , to go to Russia. I went to the State Department and I went and I found somebody who was responsible for the east European countries. I told him that I am an Hungarian and he answered me Hungarian. It turned out that during the war he was in Hungary and he had a Hungarian wife.

He spoke Hungarian and then he told me that he will arrange me. He began to call everybody and he told me that he will arrange for me permission to leave the country. I will get it from him but I have to come back in ten days because he tried to arrange it at once but it doesn't work. He needs time and I should return in ten days. I went back toKa__ I was living there at the Red Cross. They had such a house there. In ten days, I went again to Russia and I got this paper. Then I had to go to this country official again that he should give me the stamp on this. Then he was very nice and he told me, I told you that you need a good document and that is a good document what you have now. Now you can leave the country. So he was very polite and very nice with me. I could come home, not so easily. It was funny because it was a group of Hungarian people. The most stupid story you have ever heard. It was a family with two

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection children and I don't know, with somebody else with two other people who had the same document what I had. A couple, it turned out that he was a Jew and she was a Christian and he was one of the men who hadn't got a Hungarian citizenship but he had a Polish citizenship.

These people from Hungary were taken away in "41 to somewhere, to Ukraine. They all were killed by the Germans there. Somehow, because the wife told that I don't leave him to go alone and I go with him, somehow, this very simple Christian woman, she could save his life. They came back from Ukraine with the same paper that they got somehow, the same paper what I had. I came home with this group. At the frontier, it was "46, the Russian officer didn't like us to enter the country. They say they will have to check who we are. We had to stay at the border; it was joined there already, this Jewish organization from here, from the state. They gave us food, they gave us where to sleep. We had to wait there. That was on the Hungarian border. I knew, somehow, these are Hungarian- speaking people who are living in this village.

I spoke to somebody because in this village used to live the brother-in-law of this boy with his sister. They used to live in this village. What do you know about Mr. Mueller, this boyfriend who disappeared in Russia. I asked the people, do you know Mr. Mueller? They told yes, he's living, the wife is dead but he's still living. He is in the Hungarian part of the city which is called Est___. I asked, how can I contact him, I asked this man. He told go to the riverside, that is the Danube, everybody knows him in Est__, asked the smugglers. The smuggler will take with pleasure your letter to Mueller because he is a rich man and he will give them money. If you write that you are here, he will manage somehow that you could cross the border. I did it and it happened that next day came somebody from the other side and looked for me in the joint. I told him that the check _ I'm not allowed to know that he came to take me over. I should insist that I want to go and they will allow me without the permission but they will allow me to go. They will tell that they don't let me back if I can't cross the border but I should insist. The Hungarian said he will manage that I can enter the country. He came, I don't know. We told the wife that he came here. It happened like that, that I crossed the border and that the Hungarian say that I was accepted.. He waited for me already for me at the border.

That is how I came home. In "48 it turned out that I have -- I had relatives, and in deg48 it turned out --. I always had some pain here and in deg48, it turned out that it is TB. It was rather neglected as I walked with it two years long and I had to go to sanatorium and to lay for two years. Because | had it in the backbone and that was the __ treatment, now they have more medication. After coming home, | entered the university in "46. I had two years in the university. Then I gained a break because of this illness. That was four years and then I finished, in "55, I finished the university. I got excellence.

Q:" Nothing happened to your brain?

A: When I was standing inthe _ valley in Auschwitz, I was always thinking I want to survive and I will survive and I will go to the university and will get a degree. I am somebody and these German people are nothing, they are just garbage. But I am somebody and I will go to university.