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ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Frieda Noga December 15, 2000 Beginning Tape One, Side A

Q: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Jeff and Toby Herr collection, this is an interview with Frieda Noga, conducted by Regina Baier, on December 15", 2000, in Mrs. Noga's home in Clinton, New York. This is a follow up interview to a USHMM videotaped interview conducted with Frieda Noga on December 11", 1990. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum gratefully acknowledges Jeff and Toby Herr for making this interview possible. This is tape number one, side A. Frieda, if you could give us your full name again first.

A: Mm-hm. My name is Frieda Noga.

Q: And when and where were you born?

A: I was born in Austria, October 19, 1920. And my maiden name is Kranika, and my father was Mateus Kranika, my mother was Teresa Kranika. And we -- we come from a -- I come from a big farm. My father had a big farm in Austria in Michaelnbach. And we were four girls and one boy. I had three sisters and one brother, so we were raised on a farm and I had a very, very happy childhood.

Q: Frieda, tell us a little bit more about your family. Try to describe your father a little bit. What -- you said in your videotaped interview that he was an honorable but strict man. Give us a little bit of the picture.

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A: Yeah, he was honorable, very honorable in the community. He was very well known because he was the biggest farmer in Michaelnbach. And -- but he was very strict, and we were raised very good. We never know what is worried, or the hunger, or the -- we are not loved. And we were a -- a happy family. And my mom, she is at -- my father onl -- my mother got married, my mom was real young when they got married, and she was a very, very good mom. And my father, I loved my father very much, but he was a little bit too strict, you know, but at that time we didn't know, we thought that's the way it have to be. And --

Q: So you all had to work very hard on the farm?

A: Oh we -- oh we -- he always said, you know, we got to learn all the work on a farm, no matter what, and so we had to do everything, specially near the time when the war broke out, when it -- it got bad. We couldn't get any workers, so we had to take over, and every girl had their job, you know, in a -- anything in a farm.

Q: Let's go back to your siblings a little bit, you had three sisters.

A: Yes.

Q: Would you give us their names, and whether -- tell us whether they were younger or older than you were.

A: The older one was Margaretta Kranika, and the second one was Teresa Kranika, and then was me, Frieda. Actually, I was Frederika Kranika. I shortened the name my -- my ma -- my name when we came in this country. And the USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 4 youngest sister was Mariana Kranika. And my brother's name was Mateus, like father and grandfather's name was also Mateus.

Q: What -- what was the relationship? Did you feel close, especially close to either one of them? Were you -- were you close, all of you, or --

A: Well, yes, we were very close, but my oldest sister was a very good natured person, my -- like my mom. You know, my mom, she was very good natured. And the second sister, she was more a business lady, you know. I always liked her and I think she's my favorite and I think we --- we were very much alike. And the younger one, she was more strict, spoiled a little bit and that's how it is ina family. And --

Q: Wa-Was your brother, sort of, because he was the only son --

A: Mateus, yes.

Q: -- was he supposed to take over the farm at one point?

A: Oh yes, oh yes, that was the only -- the only father's wish -- was my father's wish that the brother going to take over. And --

Q: What -- what -- you w -- you went to s -- you helped on the farm later on, but you also went to school. How many -- to what kind of school did you go and how many was --

A: Well, we went when -- when we were children, we didn't help -- we didn't work on the farm til we -- we -- after we got out of school. But we had just a -- the USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 5 Volkschule, that means the grammar school, and that was no college that time, because that were not time. But my father was the only one in that wide area what he had college, because he was only son from that f-- you know, from that big farm. So he had college, was well educated.

Q: What -- what kind of -- what kind of life, what kind of dreams for life did you have then? Did you have any ideas about what you wanted --

A: I was just -- I was just a happy, really happy young girl. I loved to sing. I was -- I liked to be up on a hill, and was singing and yodeling, and I heard my voice back from the forest and I-I -- I was by myself and I just loved that. And I was just a happy young kid, that's all I can say, you know? And I learned good in school, I was good in school. But later on it -- when the -- we got out of school, well we all had to work on the farm because the father need us. You know, couldn't get any workers, and was hard.

Q: But when you got older, did you have some idea of what you would be later on? Did you see some kind of -- did you want to have a profession to do work, maybe, or did you see yourself --

A: Mm, not really, we -- we -- that all we h -- were teached, you know, to be a farmer, that's all, you know? Oh my God, you know, there is some -- some -- sometime -- some f -- I remember some friends from my father came over, also had big farm, and very well off, you know. They were saying, oh, they got a son, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 6 you know, I would like to have one of your daughters someday, you know, to -- my son marry your d -- one of your daughters, you know? You know, matching -- in the old da -- in them olden days they were matching up some younger people, but didn't bother me that I didn't -- that it doesn't -- you know, don't want to hear that.

Q: Before Julian came on the scene, have you been in love a little bit? Did you know somebody --

A: No, I -- [know someone, yeah, and that was v -- a ver-ve-very big farm, but I di -- I didn't -- really wasn't interested, you know. So it was just a little -- maybe a little flirting, a little, you know, things, because I don't know anybody else, but he was from a very, very good family. And they also had -- he had four sisters, and they were very similar to us, you know. But it was nothing, we were wha -- not involved.

Q: Did you have -- did you have good friends, good girlfriends?

A: Oh yes, in school. We're -- we didn't -- oh, there were girls in our school, on our way to school what I still get mail from them now, that they were so proud that they were with us -- friends with us, and that we didn't hate any -- any -- that we are better like them, you know, and don't even -- not even cross our mind that we are better than others what they're from a poor family, you know, we were just alike, you know, and we didn't had any -- any -- whatever reason to be -- be -- USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 a think ourselves too much or th -- whatever, you know, that we were regular. We wanted to be regular girls, yeah, to grow up, yeah.

Q: But anyway, your family had a large farm and your father -- there were hunting grounds as well [indecipherable]

A: Oh yes, yes.

Q: Did you -- wh-what kind of social standing did your family have in that community, though? Did your father have any kind of positions in the community?

A: Well, he was a -- actually at that time was just a -- a -- there weren't so many positions on a -- in -- on a -- on a -- in them days, you know, there was just a -- a mayor and a small office over there, and there was not -- but he was very respected. When there were m-meeting or the something, you know, like the farmer's meeting or the something, he was all -- had to always be there, you know, that there -- well, he had that hunting area, all the whole area was -- belonged to -- to my grandfather, later on to my father, and it was about hundred years on a -- on a -- on that farm. And big rich guys from the city, or th -- whatever, they came on the farm hunting. And that's why my father was so liked, and so popular and my father was a very educated, smart man, yeah.

Q: Now, when -- when the National Socialists came to power, did your father have a party book too?

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A: Well, he no want to, but he had to. That was like you have to belong to the party. If not, you're not going to get any machinery, or the -- no workers. So they were actually forced to that, you know? But later on they had a meeting and that was something about I d -- I don't -- I don't know that, you know, but they -- my father didn't like something what they said, you know, what [indecipherable] or whatever, and he just throwed that -- whatever here -- this -- that he belongs to the party.

Q: The membership book?

A: Membership book, yeah. He just throwed it into it, and he took off and -- and -- and he left. He said he never going to be back, he don't want to belong to the party. So, that ma -- they gave him a real hard time, you know. We couldn't get any workers, and machinery were hard to get. Just when you belong to the party.

So there was already a tractor on a way for us, a big tractor, you know, to -- to -- that we get on the farm and that was very important. But then [indecipherable] my father have the tractor, just keep going on, just couple small machineries he got, you know, what he really, really needed, you -- and he really begged for it, you know. But they gave him a hard time.

Q: You also said in your videotaped interview that your brother was drafted into the army eventually. Whe -- when was that? Do you remember?

A: Not exactly d -- that -- that date when h -- when he left, you know, but --

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Q: But the year?

A: Yeah, well, he had to go. They always were saying if you got one son, you're not [indecipherable] be drafted. And for some reason that's why he throwed that membership away. So they put my -- my brother had to go in the army. And that time he was in France. He came home once for -- for furlough and he got married, and he had to go -- when he go back, he had to go to Russia. He never, never came home.

Q: Was -- was that -- do you remember, was that before Julian came to the farm, or was that while he was there? Do you remember?

A: No, but -- I think Julian was already -- yeah, uh-huh, in a -- yeah -- I'm not sure the date, you know.

Q: One -- one more question perhaps, with regard to political opinions of your parents. This was not the time probably, and especially not on a farm where talk was not that much, I guess you didn't really talk all the time to each other because work was so much.

A: No -- yeah.

Q: But did you ever overhear, or did you know outright about political opinions of your -- of your parents?

A: It never, ever interested me, never ever, you know? And there were some friends came over to my father's -- to our farm. Oh, my father had a extra room, he USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 10 was not in -- in a -- in a big [indecipherable] every day, where the people are. Just extra room, with a office and -- and his [indecipherable] friends came, you know, they talk. When I was a kid, you know, I just heard them when they were talking [indecipherable] war. I mean, you know, such -- so ugly, you know. But we kids, we were -- actually we were never interested and never were told actually what is going on.

Q: Did you -- did you feel sort of the op -- before the war, and then when the war broke out, sort of the -- the feel in the village or in the communities about the situation in -- in Europe or about the persecution of -- of people. Did you get to hear any of this, did you know how people felt?

A: Well, a -- everybody felt very bad about that war, why -- why something like that happened, see? All of us certain that was in September, I think it was, yeah, in September when they were saying the German marched into Poland. And th -- i-it is a war, a wa -- how come a war? You know, so everybody was shook -- shook up, you know. Why a war? Why they do that, you know? So that's all I remember, I was a kid, you know, I was really unaware from -- you know, not interested actually, you know, so --

Q: And did you -- did you ever overhear anything about anti-Jewish, or anti-po -- anti-Slavic [indecipherable] USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 11

A: [heard something when they were saying once that they're -- they're -- they're -- what there was some Jewish store in Krieskiren where I usually -- we -- we went shopping Krieskiren, it's a little bigger city. And there was some -- some -- some one -- a -- a clothing store, they were saying that he was arrested, for what? But tha -- we just heard that he was Jewish, what that go to do with it? See? And one guy I -- [remember he was friend with us, he always came on the farm. His name was Sibel, he used to bring to our house, to our farm, that soap, know, the smelling -- nice smelling soap and perfumes and things. He had a -- a store like that, but he always asked Mom to give him enough butter that he have enough butter and enough -- enough whatever he needs at home, and my mom always give it to him, you know. And he brought us special [indecipherable] girl, oh yes, we got a nice s- soap and a little bit of perfume for your girls, you know, and we were happy about that and we liked him a lot, you know.

Q: And then -- and then Julian came one day. Your father had applied for workers because he lacked workers --

A: Right.

Q: -- and he got -- you got two Polish workers who were working -- supposed to work on your farm. Did -- you -- you don't -- do you know how it came that those two were chosen, by any chance?

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A: Well, that -- the community, they were -- they were saying my -- my -- my -- my father had to put applications in to need some workers, and he did. He wanted more, but they decide to give him one. Then later on they said two because they really saw we needed -- we re -- really need workers because they all -- they all wants to go -- you couldn't get Austrian workers because they're all going to war, you know? And my brother also. And so they said not -- December eight, that there going to be -- got to be -- two Polish workers got to be picked up. So my father went and want to pick up the Polish workers. At the time they were saying from -- from Poland, to Austria, to Vienna, a -- such a snowstorm came, you know, so the train got stuck somewhere, they couldn't get to Austria, you know.

So my father was waiting, the -- all the farmers were there, they were waiting in -- in -- in [indecipherable] on a -- on a -- on a -- on a -- you know, on a ha -- s -- what the -- get the workers who -- they're supposed to come in the office, and they had to go home because they didn't came. Well, my father do -- was about four or five kilometer, almost five kilometer to walk home in that snowstorm, so he got real sick. He was -- had a bad cold. The next day he had said he -- he just can't go, you know. And we need them workers, what we going to do? So he said Frieda, you want to go? I said, yeah, I go. We couldn't go with any -- any -- any horses or the -- or the wagon or the -- anything like that, so I had to walk and walk in that ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 13 snow and there was no snowplowed or anything. And I walked for kilometers to get to this -- for the wor -- get the worker, yeah, workers.

Q: And then they started to work for you, and -- and you got to like Julian slowly.

Did you like him right away, or was it a slow proce -- what did you like about him?

A: Well, actually, when -- when -- when th-the man in the unem -- unemployment off -- when the unemployment office said, you know, you get this worker and this worker. Doesn't mean anything to me, you know, so okay, let's go home. It got dark already, was almost 4:30, something like that. And that man from the -- from the unemployment office, he -- he know my father very well. I -- In -- even thought about that he didn't trust them two guys, you know, with a young girl to walk home for four kilometer in the dark. Never even came -- came to my mind, you know? He said, listen, I called taxi for you, you going to go home in a taxi with them two guys. So they all -- we almost got home with the taxi, but up on a hill there was so much snow that we have to walk, you know, we had to walk to the farm. And we did. And we came home to the farm, they all was waiting for -- for us. My mom had a big supper ready. My sisters were there, even my grandpa was there and my father. And we walked in, here they are, you know, so okay. My father, he knows a few words in Polish, right, because he was in the first World War, he was in Poland. And little by little, you know, they got -- you know,

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 14 friendly, yeah, and -- but didn't came into my mind that I had a -- you know, I really -- I just liked, you know, that we got workers, and got help on the farm, you know? And --

Q: So how did that change, though?

A: Well, he was very, very helpful, very f-friendly, Julian, you know? And we liked that, we girls, we really liked that, that he was friendly, and very pleasant and we got along good and things. But still, you know, gee, I would never, because you could never, ever -- they were saying, you know, don't you ever get involved with someone -- they said, you shouldn't eat even on the same -- by the same table. But my mom said no, not such a thing, she said, you know, you all -- we're -- we -- we girls had to eat by the same table what the workers was wer -- eating. But Mom and Dad, they eat in the other room, you know, but you girls, we always -- and we did. We're at the same table, eating at the same table.

Q: What did you like -- what did you like about Julian, though [indecipherable]

A: I don't know, he was friendly and happy and this and that, and I think we girls, we needed someone to, you know, to be nice, and bring some -- I don't know, it's just little by little, very little by little, and he was nice and -- and once we -- he helped me to carry something in the barn, you know, and he just -- just lean over and -- and -- and kissed me. I said, oh, don't you dare, you know? He stole a kiss from me, you know. And gee, I got all shook up that he did that, I didn't expect USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 15 that, you know? And I didn't look at him for three days, I didn't even look at him.

I got so -- so scared. And then little by little, you know, he was nice, you know, really very, very gentle and little by little, we got -- yeah, like -- liked each other a little bit, you know. But, oh my gosh, this can't happen, this is out of question, you know, this just --

Q: You were very much aware of how dangerous this is?

A: Yes, oh yes, oh yes, oh yes. First of all, for myself and for him too, you know, because if they find out if I just mentioned something that he is friendly or something, you know, they would put him away and he would be gone forever, you know, so -- they were so strict that time, you know, so -- and I wouldn't do that.

Q: Then, at one day, you allowed him to listen secretly to the radio. Now that was also dangerous.

A: It was also dangerous, yes, yeah, because it was just a -- from the big room would a -- where we usually eat, you know, was a door to the smaller room where my father had the radio, you know, that was very -- was just one radio in the house. And he wanted to listen to that, you know, and [indecipherable] I just keep the door unlocked and he went in and listened to that radio, you know. Nobody knew that, you know, so -- he didn't do anything wrong, nor any harm, you know, but I -- I did let him do that, you know?

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Q: What wou -- I always have to ask why, but you know, so you were a young person, and -- but it was -- it was dangerous. Why did you -- I mean, it almost seems as if you were courting danger.

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: Why would you do that -- what --

A: I don't know myself. I don't know myself, you know. Little by little we fell in love, I think, you know, and that's how it happened, you know. My father noticed that, m-my father -- and somebody else must too, you know, must -- somebody -- somebody else must have saw something. And my father said no, that can't go on like that, and -- and once he did slap me, you know, and I was so hurt because it was my father what I loved so dearly and he loved me, too. And that --

Q: Did somebody see you -- did somebody --

A: Probably.

Q: -- see him while he was listening and [indecipherable]

A: I don't know. Somebody must have see us, you know, what -- we were friendly to each other, or whatever. Yeah, and --

Q: And then eventually your father called both of you -- first separately and then both --

A: Mm-hm.

Q: -- of you into a room and gave you an ultimatum basically because --

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A: Yeah.

Q: -- it was too dangerous --

A: Right, right.

Q: -- one of you had to leave, so you decided to -- to go --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and s-say that --

A: It was a big step for me, that was -- I knew if I don't go that he is in danger.

Q: Julian?

A: Julian is in danger, yes. And I couldn't let that happen, I just couldn't, you know? It's something -- something tells you that, you know, it -- you -- you can't do that, something -- something going to happen to him and he would be gone forever, you know? And so I said, I go. That was terrible, you know, it was a big st -- big step for me. And my father was stubborn too, you know, he said well, if you like that, you know, so --

Q: Did anybody in the family try to hold you back or to change your mind?

A: No, my mom tried, you know, but some sisters even said, n -- n -- later on they were saying when -- if the -- if th -- I came home, they were saying, why don't we stick together, why didn't -- we were there for you? So they just let me go, just like that, you know, and I had no one to turn to.

Q: So Julian stayed on the farm --

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 18

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and you went to another small farm, but you -- you --

A: No, actually, that was a big farm. It was a big farm, that first one. Was a big farm, yeah. And I was there, working there and somebody must have see us, or the -- something, I don't know.

Q: So you cont -- you continued to see each other [indecipherable]

A: Yes, oh he came immediately, every Sunday, you know, yes. Like we said, you know, at that time, you know, when I left, we were saying that I know that that -- that gonna be far away, so far away it's not in our area over here that they put me to work because you have not a choice what a -- the u -- employment office puts you, you have to go, you know, so there was no other choice. So I know that's going to be in Eferding. And I sen -- I said, in Eferding going to be a church, I know that. And near the church over there we're going to meet -- you're going to be here at one o'clock, we going to see each other Sunday, that following Sunday.

And that's what had happened, a way -- we saw each other. He came, and we were very happy to saw each other, and that's --

Q: But then eventually you got denounced and you were arrested and you were interrogated by the Gestapo in -- in Linz?

A: Right.

Q: And you took the -- basically you took the blame on you that --

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A: Oh yes, oh yes, I took it --

Q: Say something a little more about that.

A: Well, I take the blame on me, I -- I said, you know, well, was nothing actually -

- it was nothing wrong, you know, he just came as a friendly, you know, friend

and told me what's going on at home because I wanted to know what's going on at

home. And there's -- they said then later on -- I said that was not his fault, and we

didn't do anything wrong, so that's how that time they couldn't prove it, and then

they said I -- I -- I was there I think 11 days, something like that, and they lef -- let

him go Friday and they kept me over the weekend that we don't meet because they

gave him a -- a-a -- a job far away, that wa -- in completely different direction, and

me too, you know, so I already had that place that was on a small farm way up on

a hill by the woods, but you know, you couldn't -- it's just a -- a -- a -- a lost town,

you know, really. They put me there what nobody would find me over there, into a

farm, you know. And --

Q: So you had to sign papers though, both of you, that --

A: Oh yes, we had to --

Q: -- you would never see each other again.

A: -- right, we'd never see each other again. And I signed the paper, you know, I

hadn't a lot of choice. And I thought, my gosh, you know, I not going to fi -- we

find -- no find each other anyway again, you know, that's all. I felt like I was lo- USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 20 lost, you know, so I -- they let me out Monday morning about 9:30, something like that, and I walked around on a train station, there were a lot of people there, and all kind of people, was a big train station in Linz. And I thought, my gosh, where I am going now, so -- what going to happen to me now? And then I looked up, oh my gosh, it was like a miracle, you know? Julian walked in from another train that came out, you know, came on for -- for another station. I couldn't believe it, you know, that was like God dropped him down from the heaven, you know, and that at least I'm not alone.

Q: And then you decided to see each other again after all?

A: Yes, immediately. He had my address where I go, and I had his, you know? I said, where we going to be, no matter what, you know, this next Sunday, with the bi -- our bicycles, we had our bicycles, we going to be by -- by Lanstrasser. From Linz to Wells, up, you know, that's -- that's Lanstrasser, that's a beautiful --

Q: It's a count -- count -- it's a country road kind of --

A: It's from the country, it's from Gunskirchen, goes to Wells, and it's a big, big road to Linz, that's a -- a very popular street. And that's where we found each other then, you know, yeah.

Q: But eventually you were denounced again. The farmer where you worked found out earlier, but he decided not to say anything, but when you decided to give up work on the farm -- USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 21

A: Right.

Q: -- he denounced you and you were interrog -- you were brought again to the Gestapo and you were interrogated, and this time I think you had to stay a little longer, but I need to change cassette, and --

A: Mm-hm, okay.

Q: -- we'll talk about that. This is the end of tape one, side A, interview with Frieda Noga.

End of Tape One, Side A Beginning Tape One, Side B

Q: This is a continuation of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Frieda Noga. This is tape number one, side B. So you were back in Linz at the Gestapo headquarters and this time the situation was more serious because you had already signed papers that you would never see him again, and the interrogation was -- was much more harsh. And what -- what happened then?

A: Right. Well, one, the Gestapo took me, and interviewed me. They -- they showed me -- they told me that I was already here, that I must -- you know, second time here and that was more serious. And how come, what happened? And you sees -- sees -- see still that Pole, you know, they were saying, you know, to make him -- you know, make me -- humiliate me, you know? And I said, well, you know, once in awhile, you know, we are friends, and things. Then -- then later on USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 22 they were saying what -- you know, to -- to force it out on me, you know, that you had something to do with him, you know. It was no other way, you know, that just force it out of me there's some poss -- well, yes, I had something to do with him, we had something to do each other. Okay, that's about it. But, I said, it's my fault.

I took it on me, blame on me, and I -- I thought that going to be better for Julian, you know, because if it's the opposite then -- then to take it out on him, and they're going to -- I know they're going to -- not going to kill me. I know that, I was sure, you know. But I took it -- everything on me, on -- that is everything my fault, you know, that we got together and had something to do with each other.

And -- okay, so they -- they were saying, you know what's -- what's going to happen to you, you're going to be black and blue, and you're going to be sent to concentration camp. Well, I had nothing to say, you know, so what I could say?

And I got back to the prison cell again, only in two days, I remember, my father came to the Gestapo. And he talked with them. He had a lot of friends over -- you know, some people told him, you know, to go there and do something about it.

And my father came, he wanted to see me, so they called me out from the cell, and a special -- there were a special room where you visit us and my father was there, I was scared to death, you know. And then -- he was very gentle to me. He said, what happened? He said, please tell me the truth, he said, you got to tell me the truth. If you tell -- you -- nothing happened between you two, you know, and I do USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 23 anything to get you out of here, you know, get you home. Did you -- what you say? I said, yes, we ha -- da -- we had something to do with each other. Then he was just shook up. He said -- he hugged me and hold me for awhile. He said, I can't help you now, he said. And he was very sad about it. And --

Q: But that you took the blame on yourself, that you were the one who initiated the relationship --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- that actually really saved Julius, because otherwise --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- if he had -- if -- if -- if they thought that he was th -- had started the whole thing --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- they would have killed him?

A: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely, yeah. Because they killed many out -- and in [indecipherable] they were saying they were -- they were saying that some of them were hanged out in the woods, and some Polish people have to come and see it, how they were hanged in the woods, you know, because he had something to do with German girl, and on -- once they were saying that was a -- a German girl in some town far away from us. A German girl that she had something to do with a Polish young man, and then there were a nasty mayor over there in that town.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 24 They shaved her head, put her on a wagon, and with -- on a h -- on the horse, and drove her around in town. And that there was a sign up there, I had sexual something to do with a Polish Auslander [indecipherable] yeah, foreigner, you know? And that was terrible, that was just ugly, you know, it was -- and that was - - you know, heartbreaking.

Q: But --

A: But at least it didn't happen to me like that, you know, so I was glad that they didn't put me out in the open like that. So they were saying that I got to go to the concentration camp, and they were -- we were about seven or the -- eight girls there, all the same problem, all -- all the same thing they had in a cell, all the same thing, you know? And they said, well that's all it is, you know. If we survive, we survive, if not, you know, then that's it, you know? And then I was there til November, in the Gestapo, locked up. And then they came, I had to signed a pink slip -- a pink paper, sign my name. And that was -- dos -- th-that slip was for the concentration camp, that I got a -- they sent me to concen -- yeah, I will know it, you know, if they come with the pink slip, they know that's a concentration camp, and I was one of them, you know. So --

Q: Did -- did you -- have you heard -- what did you know about concentration camps at that point?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 25

A: Nothing. Nothing. Just supposed to be bad there, that's all. I didn't know where it is, I never know where is Ravensbriick, they were saying to Ravensbriick. I never know where is Ravensbriick, and I didn't know what is there, what's going on over there on -- we'll see, you know, so I -- I went along the way there, the [indecipherable] pushed me along, that's all.

Q: Ha-Had you heard about what kind of people were supposed to be in concentration camps?

A: Well, at -- what happened when they took us there, the -- on a train to Salzburg, and when we went through the station, through the train station, the police, you know, we were all transport by police to -- one were in front, on the side, on -- they had the -- the -- the -- the army guns [indecipherable] we were heavy, were -- I don't know, murderers or th -- something, you know. And some people were there in the train station, older people and a lot of people, what happened, what happened, what kind of people are this, you know? And, well they go to the concentration camp, the police were saying, you know. Oh, they don't want to work? Oh. And they start spitting on us, you know, and -- some of them, you know, some of them. And then they took us, we were -- stayed there in Salzburg in a cell for a day. The next day we went on to Munich, and in Munich we stayed two days, or or the -- three days, something like that. And Dresden we stayed a couple of days over there because other trains what were coming together, you know, it USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 26 was a -- a big, big thing, you know, big transport. And then we went into Leipzig.

Leipzig, you know, in Leipzig I was very, very -- no, i-in Dresden, I think, in Dresden I was very, very sick. I had a cold, you know, because it was the winter.

Was raining and snowing and blowing and everything and -- and in a cattle train, you know, was no heat in there, nothing, you know. And then in a cell I was -- I just thought, you know, hi -- I was shaking, I was very cold, I had the chills, you know. And they brought the f -- some food in here, some soup, whatev -- whatever. I couldn't even look at it, you know, I couldn't eat nothing, you know?

Then they saw that I was really sick, I mean, you know, that lady what took care of the cell, she was saying something, you know, she's sick, you know? So she brought me two pills. I don't know what was -- what the two pills. And I took them two pills and in about two hours I got up and I was feeling good, and by day -- the next day we went on the transport and went to the concentration camp. They must be two aspirin, or something, or the -- whatever, two -- two pills to get me up on my feet, you know? So --

Q: So what -- when did you arrive in ravens -- Ravensbriick?

A: In Ravensbriick we arrived November 18.

Q: What year?

A: 41, I thin -- I'm not sure. I got mixed -- get mixed up in them years already.

And they took us from the train station, on open trucks, and they took us and it USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 27 was cold, and windy and snowy, and we had to march, it was dark already, a concentration camp, oh my gosh, they're going through the -- through the -- through the whole thing, you know, we went in there, was all kind of barracks here, and hardly could see anything because it was almost dark already. And then they took us somewhere downstairs, somewhere in a -- in a tunnel. And when we walked downstairs I got scared, it was the most scary things. They were like on a - - on a -- ona -- when you walk down it, alls you could see was caskets. What the caskets are doing here, why? We were so unexperienced, you know, so we didn't know what's going on here. All caskets there, and then we were -- we went down even lower and there were cells, there were concrete floor, was cold down there.

There were cells there to put us in there, and we heard some screaming, hollering, a girl was please help, please help. And the dogs were barking and screaming, we - - we thought, what happened, what happened, what is this, with -- you know if -- if you -- if you -- you don't know what's going on here. But then in a little while she -- little by little she stopped screaming. The -- the [indecipherable] master killed her or something, you know, that's what we thought, but it sound like it, you know. The next day they brought us up and we were -- I had to go ina -- go fora shower and get the clothing over there, and the concentration camp clothing. And they said we going to go on a block 16, that was the [indecipherable], the -- the newcomer block. And we were -- all went there, the -- the block 16 and from USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 28 block 16 later on, they took whatever they got room for, for the prisoner what they coming, the new ones. And from block 16, when they called us, they called me and other girls, they called us. You be -- you gotta come up to the [indecipherable] you know, we gotta come up there, you know. So they shaved us, because we were the Polish -- you know, the -- we had something to do with Polish young men, so they put us to shame, you know, they shaved our hair up. And that was the biggest shock to me in my life.

Q: So, when this -- when the people s-s-spit on you on your way to the camp, it seemed that people thought that --

A: We were good for nothing girls, just nothing, we're just a -- bad gir -- bad pe -- people that don't want to work.

Q: Oh, they thought that lazy people went to camps --

A: Yes, right.

Q: -- and -- and criminals, probably --

A: Right, right.

Q: -- so when you were there you found out that was different.

A: Yes, right, right.

Q: What -- what kind of people did you meet there?

A: Well, usually there were a lot of -- there were on -- one block Jewish, and two - - I think two blocks Gypsies. They had their -- all their own block, you know,

ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 29 certain numbers. And there were a couple blocks about the -- the Jehovah Witness.

Jehovah Witnesses. And criminals and what the people what had the -- the [indecipherable] their times and then they them out. They -- they have to -- they put them in the concentration camps, you know, certain people what they had problem with the -- the law, yeah. And --

Q: Well, i-in -- in the videotaped interview you talked in some detail about your experience in Ravensbriick. So first you had to work outside and it was really, really difficult and cold.

A: Yeah.

Q: Then they were looking for seamstresses, and you passed yourself off as one.

A: Yes, yes.

Q: And it was -- it was a little easier.

A: Right.

Q: How long -- how long did you stay actually, in Ravensbriick?

A: I stay in Ravensbriick f -- til about in August, en -- end of August, I think it was, or the September, something like that. I forgot. I really forgot the date already.

Q: So that was -- that was about a half -- a half a ye-year?

A: No, more than that, I think was 10 months or 11 months, something like that, yeah. Uh-huh.

ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 30

Q: And then you were --

A: 11 months.

Q: -- then you were let go. Was that unu -- that was unusual?

A: Very un -- no, it was very unusual. All of a sudden -- we went to work and some SS lady came with the dog, and -- on my -- on the job where I was working she called out my number [indecipherable] that means 8446, that was my number, there was no -- no name called, just the number. Yeah, it was me, what -- this what happened. So that lady wa -- she was in the -- our chief, you know, at work, our boss lady. She was saying, is it you? What happened to you? What did you do? I said, I don't know. And so I had to go with her, because nobody expect that I go free, you know, so [indecipherable] was something unusual. Oh, she said, we're going to go in a [indecipherable] to -- to the SS chief, and I -- w -- I thought, you know, my God, you know, to -- to execute me or something [indecipherable] or to put me someplace else, what did I do? And then he told me, you know, you're lucky. You dumb lucky girl, she said -- he said, you know. You know what?

You're going home, you go free. To me it was like a -- a -- you know, something from heaven. But they said, you're going to go home to your parents. I thought, oh my God, I -- "m homesick already, you know, but what I gonna have to face over there, though? So --

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 31

Q: Did -- did you find out what happened? How it -- how it came that you got to be free?

A: No, no. Well, when I got home, I remember they put me on a train and they took me on a train and she must have bought the ticket or th -- something, the -- they had to sit there in a train, to go to Austria. And that was about oh, about a six hour ride, something like that, far, far away, you know? So, I thought what happen now, I -- I just, please God, do with me what you think is right, you know, so I went to Austria, to Wells, it was still a little bit -- it was light out, it was still about four o'clock in the afternoon, something like that, five o'clock in the afternoon, it was light out. I was -- that nobody see me, I had no hair on my head, it was shaved, you know, that they" ll see that something -- I come fr-from a prison or -- or something, you know, I looked terrible. I was running on the side, you know, or -- from the -- from the train station. I was going somewhere to hide, there were some benches over there, a little park, you know. I was waiting, you know, I was sitting, there was nobody in the park, was nobody there, so I was sit there. I had the -- the continuing train, I had at eight o'clock, something like that, to go home to Krieskiren because the tr -- you gotta take another train from there. And to Krieskiren, the train gonna be there probably about eight, 8:30 or something like that. And I thought, oh my God, and that's not going to be dark, you know, if somebody see me, everybody knows me, a lot of people know me in that USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 32 hometown over there, on the train station, oh my, okay, I went home, scared like anything. And then I went -- Krieskiren I got out and I -- immediately I -- I didn't go inside of the train because I was -- you know, somebody might see me. I went right on the side down in a f -- in a -- in the bushes, so I'm hiding away, and we're going to a road what goes, you know, just the forest over there, and I was hiding out there, you know. And I was waiting til it's really dark. And then it was -- after 10 o'clock, something like that, I started walking home, you know, what gonna happen now at home? And I -- it was -- from there it was about four kilometer to walk home, I did go home. And on the way home, on a -- not far from the hou -- from the house, about a half a kilometer from the house -- in Austria is that -- that ha -- thing when you meet somebody on the road to say goodnight, and I meet a -- i-it was a person go walking, said goodnight, and I said goodnight, you know, and I was afraid, you know, that then they recognized me. So I came to the farmhouse -- to the house, and I know what the -- the hofe door is the big, big door, you know? The other doors are locked, but this hofe door, I know how to open it, you know, so I open it, you know, and I heard a dog coming, the dog was barking, and I named him by the name. Immediately he know me, he recognized me, and that -- the other one came, we had the big hunting dog, too. The other one came and recognized me too, I called him by the name. So we went inside, everybody's quiet, dark, cause everybody's sleeping, you know. So I went upstairs. First I USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 33 looked around in the house, oh my God, you know? I went upstairs, what I gonna do? I went through -- around through the -- in the other room and through the doors, my sisters were sleeping, I heard them sleeping there. Through the other door another sister was sleeping, and I went -- I want to see my mother. I went to my mother and I kissed her. She said Frieda, it's you. I said yeah. She clung [indecipherable] was sleep and heard him snoring. And she said come on, come on. And so we di -- went down to the kitchen together. My sisters heard something was going on, so they all came down to the kitchen downstairs. Oh my God, that's you, that's you. They were happy. But then they saw what happened to my head, I had no hair. They felt sorry, but Mom -- Mom said, make something hot for you, you want something to eat? I said no. Some hot to you -- for you, some hot cocoa, some hot tea. I just drinked a little bit, you know, what my mother gave me. That was about it, and then I went to sleep.

Q: So nobody -- nobody knew that you were coming, or when you were coming?

A: No, no.

Q: What -- when you -- when your father -- when you saw your father, how di -- how did he -- how wa -- how was that?

A: The next day in the morning, my mom said that it's the room over there downstairs, you gonna sleep out there, and I have to sleep upstairs. So okay.

There's a extra room down there. And then I was afraid to get up to face my father USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 34 -- anyway it -- people, you know, too, whatever, the way I look, where I came from. And I didn't want to get up. Then my father came to me. Said, I'm so glad to see you. You're home. He kissed me. Said, get up. That's it.

Q: Did you -- did you find out later how it was possible for you to get out?

A: Not really. You know, I just knew mis -- when my -- my sister later on was saying Dad had lot of connection so that he could get you out, now. But I was young, you know, and things you know, what kind of connection, there must be something, you know. I'm glad I'm out -- I'm out here, see. And --

Q: In -- in your videotaped interview, you also said that your father at one point at least said, you know, oh God, what -- what have you done to us. But did you learn whether there were in fact, some -- some real effect on your family?

A: Oh yes.

Q: Were there repercussions?

A: Oh yes, oh yes.

Q: Talk about that [indecipherable]

A: Oh yeah. Well, first of all my sisters, when they went someplace or th -- something, you know, that my father, oh Frieda is in a concentration camp, you know, this and that, she had something to do with a Pole, you know? And that time it was embarrassing, humiliating, and -- to them, not on -- to my parents also, you know? And when sometimes some -- my sisters, they g -- they went USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 35 someplace, somewhere [indecipherable] doing, so the -- there was some [indecipherable] you know. One time some people were asking, you know, is that true that Frieda came home from the concentration camp? They say yeah. Well, you shouldn't be embarrassed about, that's her side, you know, sh -- that's not you fault. That they were saying to the girl -- to my sisters, you know? And I was like, you know, when -- first time I don't want to even go to church, nothing. I went on a Sunday sometime in the afternoon far away to a chapel and -- instead of going to church to [indecipherable] in -- in Michaelnbach. And then later on when somebody saw me they were saying, did you -- did you see her? She came back, did you saw her? I felt like a -- a terrible criminal, you know? I felt terrible. And -- but little by little, then later on, my hair were growing back and my mom said, no go down in that village, you know, who -- everybody knows you and knows us.

Go -- it was hard for -- for someone to take you ahead -- you know hairdresser, you know, what they fix the hair? Said, go to Wells, that's far away. Drive over there, I give you some butter, give you some meat, you know. If they're not take you -- they -- they gonna take you if you give them that butter, because meat that - - money that time wasn't important, just like meat and all that, you know, butter, you know, people in a city, they look forward to get something. So they took me and I went inside at this hairdresser and she looked at me, you know, he looked -- I look kind of funny, you know, see what happen. And then I give her -- I didn't ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 36 say anything, I didn't have to answer her. And then she did my hair, she gave me a permanent, and I came home and little by little I looked better every day. And then I start going even -- some friends saw me also, you know, go -- but I always feel so guilty, I was the guilty black sheep, you know, I was just bad girl or the -- something, I don't know, you know. But I wonder what happened to Julian.

Q: Well, and then what's -- I wanted to ask you -- so not all of your friends from -- from the earlier days left you alone, they also were still friends to you, some of them at least?

A: Well, certain distance. Certain distance, you know? Yeah. But that was some dark clouds over, I noticed that, I see that, you know, so it wasn't the same like it was, no, no, no. Because that time they didn't understood, you know? Now it's entirely different, you know, now they are writing to me, the school friends and everybody, you know, they're so happy for us and everything. But them days, you know, they were different times.

Q: But then one day you did hear actually from somebody who had a card from Julius, right?

A: Well, a -- the -- a Polish guy that -- Polish guy still working on our farm, you know? The Polish guy what they had -- what -- what Julian came, you know, he was still working on that farm, you know? I remember once he was saying, you know, wh-when the war is over, when I going to go home, what I gonna told

ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 37 Julian's mother how Julian died, you know? And what I gonna tell him? I had no answer for that, you know, I was hurting. And he received a card from Julian, you know, and that just happened that the mailman came, and well, he received some mail also from Poland, that Polish guy [indecipherable] a -- a card from Julian, and he said to me, look I got a -- a -- a -- a card from Julian. I said oh my God, where is he? And that said, concentra -- concentration camp Flossenbiirg. Oh my God, you know. What we gonna do, how we gonna -- we gotta do something about, how we gonna help him, you know. So I wrote a card, and everything in secret, nobody knows, you know? And I told him to mail it out. I was saying I'm okay, I'm all -- I'm doing fine, and I'm healthy, and how about you? And please be strong [indecipherable] keep your head high, you know? And I put down, Uncle Franz, un -- Uncle Franz. And that way he recognized my s -- my -- my writing, Julian. We sent it to -- to that was the address, that -- that time I know he's alive, you know. And then I thought oh my God, and th -- I thought to send him a package, you know, th -- something. And I -- I did -- I'm in a secret -- secretly I had a big box, you know, everything in hiding, in se -- that my sisters couldn't see it, you know? And we all had our closet in a -- and all -- all our girls had our own closet, you know, and I had everything hiding in my closet in a big box. My sisters were going someplace and I was all by myself and that was in the fall. There was some pears [indecipherable] you know, they were really hard when you pick them, ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 38 and in about three, four weeks they gonna get soft, you know? And some apples, you know, that were picked, it was in -- in s -- in October, something like that.

And I put -- I rolled everything in a [indecipherable] to -- in a big box, and then I found still was some holes missing, I put some onions in there, I know that the onions are, you know, healthy for you. And I found a little bit of tobacco from my father, you know, put it on the side, you know, put mi -- mi -- a -- fill up the package. And packed that and put the address on and -- and I said to Franz, you gonna take this on the post office. He said, how I gonna -- how I gonna do that?

You know? I said, I gonna give you a little bit schnapps -- because he used to like to drink -- give you a little bit of schnapps in a little bottle, and you gonna take this to -- but not here in our area, you have to go far away with this -- with this package, that they don't know, hey, concentration camp does something, you know, who is this, you know? But over there in the post office, they don't pay attention, it's far away, it's a big city, you know. And he did. And later on I found out that Julian received this package. Made me very happy. And --

Q: But you -- but you never knew.

A: Inever know, no. And --

Q: Well, maybe this is a good time -- oops -- this is a good time to say that this is the end of tape one, side B, interview with Frieda Noga.

End of Tape One, Side B USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 39 Beginning Tape Two, Side A

Q: This is a continuation of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Frieda Noga. This is tape number two, side A. So you didn't hear -- after the package -- after you sent the package, you didn't really hear anything from Julian, right?

A: No, I didn't. Didn't hear anything, just I keep praying the he gonna make it, that he gonna come back.

Q: And then one day the war was over --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and he actually did come back, and showed up at your door. Tell a little bit about that.

A: Yeah, that was in May, 18, I remember. And it was -- the -- the war -- when -- is -- was over in March 23, and I thought, I wonder if he come -- come here, or the -- it -- if he survived, and things, you know, and I keep thinking about it, you know, if he made it, you know, over there in concentration camp. And then it was already March, April, May. No, no, he not gonna come, that's too long already, he would be here by now, you know. So, that was one day in a -- I think it was Friday or the Saturday evening, Saturday evening it was, May 18, and -- 1945, and I was - - it was a beautiful evening, the birds were singing in the -- in the -- in the big yard USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 40 -- in the -- in the hofe out there, you know. And a -- I was sitting out there on a big bench, it was about seven -- seven during the evening. And my sisters were in the house, and I was sitting out there in a big bench, I was thinking, you know, what -- what my life gonna be. And isn't much worth it, you know, so how my life gonna be, and things, and then I was thinking, my God, Julian not gonna -- he not -- he didn't survived, he didn't make it, but how I can get in touch with his mother, because I know his mother loved him so much, and he was very close with his mother, that I'd want to let her know that he was not a criminal, that he was a good man, and that he lost his life because he loved me. And to let her know that. If he didn't -- maybe he came back to Poland, you know, so I wasn't sure, maybe he went straight to Poland from the concentration camp if he is alive. And I was thinking like that, and -- and the doorbell's ringing. My sister went out -- out to the -- answer the door, the big door, and then she said, Julius, and when I heard that word, there's just one Julius, you know, what I know. My God, this is unbelievable, that must be him, you know. And I came running up to the door, and that was him with another friend, both of them on a bicycle, you know. I said, oh my God, you're here, and then he -- we hugged, and my sister stood there, and she went -- she went in the house, and we talked for awhile and then we said well, tomorrow we gonna meet somewhere, and that's how I was so very happy.

Q: Did you feel that you still had to meet secretly, or did you [indecipherable] USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 41

A: Well, it was -- i-it wasn't against the law any more, I know that, you know, but I don't think my father would be very, very happy, but, you know, maybe, you know, it isn't that bad like it was before, you know, we'll see, you know, what gonna happen, you know? And we didn't give up with each other, you know. He came and he say he love me, and I say that I love you, and, you know, you be the love of my life and he said the same thing and -- and that's about it, you know, we gonna get -- I want to marry you, he said, you know.

Q: But he didn't stay at your father's -- at your parents's farm, he stayed somewhere else, right?

A: Oh, he -- he was -- he was someplace else, on another farm, on his friends, and the people were very good to him, they let him stay there. But I was on my father's farm, on our farm at home, yeah. And then we came, meet each other almost every day, you know, in the evening and things and then he said well, we're going to get married, and he -- he used to visit my sister, my oldest sister, she was married, she was in Linz and her -- and her husband. And Julian, they were -- he liked him a lot, you know. He said, you know what, Julian said, I want to marry, I get married, you know. And then he said, well, I gonna help you.

We're gonna go and see the father together. And that's how they did it, you know, so once he was th -- brought along, he came, and Julian came, you know, so they approached my father, you know, and I said without me, I didn't go i -- I -- I-- I USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 42 stayed out in the kitchen, I was just listening what's going on in there, in the office. And then I went in, and then he said okay, you got my blessing, you can get married. You know, so we arranged everything. Well, actually Julian arranged everything and -- and we got married t -- like one year later when he got free.

Q: Just --

A: 1946, in March, or in -- in April we got married, right?

Q: How -- how was the mar -- how was the -- the wedding?

A: The wedding was -- actually it was, I couldn't get married in the same town I wa -- I was going school and boy I was going to first communion and -- where we belonged, where we went to school. I just couldn't get married over there because the people were still kind of, you know, that it wasn't right, you know. So we said we no have to do that, we're going to get married in a big city, in Linz. And my husband arranged everything, and arranged a big bus -- a -- a bus, you know, to come and take us all to the wedding, to Linz. My father, and my -- my sister, and the other sister were there, and some from the -- from that place where he was working, where he -- he later on got a job, and -- and he was the -- his -- his engineer. And some people were waiting by the church over there for us, with flowers and everything, and we didn't arrived. Something happened with the bus, something -- the bus broke down. So we had to go the next day, arranged everything with the priest and everything, the priest you know, a -- a -- a -- yeah, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 43 everything was arranged the next day, we got married quick. But we celebrate that day before everything, in our house and our farm, yeah. Even my aunt came, my -- my [indecipherable] came, and -- and she was there and some other people, engineer [indecipherable] where Julian was working and his wife, and some other friends, Julian's friends and my sisters, all my sisters and brother-in-laws and things were the -- all there. Was kind of strange, but was something. My mother made a good dinner, good food and everything, you know, she was very generous, my mom. And then next day we went to the church, we got married and we went straight to our little apartment what jul -- where Julian was working. There was two rooms, one kitchen, and one bedroom. And we were very happy.

Q: And Julian found -- Julian found a -- a job, a work -- he worked?

A: Yes, that, already yeah, he got that job, yeah, yeah. So he was working, that's why, you know, the engineer came who he was working for him, and he wa -- they were very nice to us, you know, so --

Q: And then your daughter was born.

A: Yes.

Q: When -- when was this?

A: In July. In -- July 12" our daughter was born. And --

Q: Her name is Frieda, too?

A: Frieda, yes.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 44

Q: And then when you thought about your future, what -- what did -- what did happen then? Did you expect to stay there?

A: Well, actually, I wouldn't mind to stay, you know, we -- if he gets a better job, I mean, you know, to -- to have a f -- to have a future. But then he said, you know, he got in contact with some friends and some society that is a possibility to go to America if you got a family in America, and he had his father and three brothers in America. So, he arranged everything little by little, and told my parents you know, that we go to America. Then my father said, well, I'd rather you go to America than to Poland. I mean, America is a land of opportunity. He said, you know, and are -- you are still young. Stick together and stay healthy, and you make it, you know, in America, you make it, you know? And that's how it happened that we were -- went to America.

Q: H-How did you feel about that? Was that a little scary to you, or --

A: It was. Yes, it was a little scary, because everything strange, but we came, he was my leader. Julian was my leader, what he wanted, I -- I agreed. So I went with him, you know, and our little Frieda, yeah. And --

Q: Tell us -- tell us a little bit more about how you -- how it -- how it happened then, who -- who paid for -- for the trip [indecipherable]

A: There was some kind of Catholic society that's supposed to bring a -- the -- from -- from concentration camp people over, you know. And they're supposed to ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 45 pay for that, you know, and later on to repay. My husband did, he repay something, you know, later on, yeah. And they brought us here to New York, we left in -- we came here March 23 or the 24". I'm la -- the March -- it was in March. Was very rough riding. Very -- in March the water was very bad. I was kind of s-seasick, and my little girl, too. But my husband, he didn't. He -- he -- he was healthy.

Q: Do -- do you remember the name of the ship?

A: Marine -- Marine Jumper. Yes, I still got a picture from Marine Jumper, and were a lot of people, was crowded, I think there were many families there, you know, yeah.

Q: How -- how long did the trip last, roughly? Do you -- do you remember?

A: I think 13 days, or the -- 14 days, something like that.

Q: Did you have -- did you have any money with you? I mean --

A: No, my husband had five dollars, you know, I didn't had any money at all.

Actually, my money -- I had some money, but it wasn't worth it anything, you know, because that time, you know, and money wasn't -- it was, yeah, after the war, you know, when money wasn't worth it -- anything. And we came to this country and I think on a -- on a ship that took good care of us, and when we came here, also there -- there -- you know from far away on a ship you saw that Statue of Liberty, so we all got up -- out on a -- high on a -- on a boat, on a ship, you

ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 46 know, and looked at the Statue of Liberty. And it was some -- somehow in the morning, it was already daylight. And some people, the cooks over there, they were very generously done. They had some apple pie, blueberry pie, and my little girl, you know, she th -- the -- for the kids they give everything there, the cooks, you know, everything there -- there -- they want to get rid of the f-food, but they had -- people couldn't eat o-on a ship because they were sick and all that. And then somebody came and called our names, that they took us to a train station.

And the train goes to Utica.

Q: Do you remember anything about that train ride, looking at the country for the first time?

A: Well, it was -- yeah, it was strange, I mean, you know, sure, and our little girl was running around, I had my hands full with her. And was nice, exciting but scared, both.

Q: And then -- and then you met Julian's father? Tha -- actually --

A: No, actually -- actually, on a [indecipherable] that stepbrother from Julian came and stepmother. They picked us up and we never -- ma -- Julian never saw them, he didn't know them. So, they took us to New York mills, and he never knew his father. I remember his father was sleeping on a couch, he got up and for the first time he saw his son. And he say, who is she? She's my wife, my little daughter.

Uh-huh. Do she speak Polish? No. And -- okay. So it was kind of hard for me to USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 47 communicate, but my husband was good, he helped me a lot and he -- he was the - - the -- my chief.

Q: Was it a little bit lonely then, in the beginning?

A: Yes it was, in the beginning, but we had each other, and we had our little girl.

And --

Q: Di-Did Julian's father or the brothers want to know? Di-Did they understand what -- did they ha -- had they kind of an understanding of what had happened in - - in -- in -- in Europe, and did they want to know about what happened to you?

A: Well, yes, sort of, yeah. And I -- first thing I remem -- important thing was to get a job. So we wanted a -- a job and things, so --

Q: Did you both get a job?

A: Yes, in about two weeks -- no, not quite two weeks, we both got the job ina cotton mill. I got a -- in a cotton mill as a weaver, working -- first helping out and then learn how to weave, and my husband got in the next fact -- there were three factories and he got in the next one [indecipherable] in a washroom somehow the - - the -- with the -- with the -- fr -- what came out from the weaving machine there -- there -- there, made the material over there, you know, for something. And --

Q: You didn't speak any English at the time, did you?

A: No, not Polish either, just a few words my husband learned me -- teached me, thank you and good morning and good night. It was hard. And then it was one lady USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 48 there at work, her name also was Frieda, Frieda Hartman, in German -- she spoke German to me. And there was one lady working there what she said she move out from a -- from the apartment she -- she go -- she moved in with her son. And then that Frieda said, where is the apartment, you know. They said that was a small apartment. I said, I don't care, you know, so long w-we are together, you know, in a small apartment, on our own. So she took me to this apartment, he was a really nice man, he had a store -- grocery store downstairs and upstairs he had a few little apartments. And we got a apartment upstairs and we were so happy, and from there we -- every day went to work. I went to work in the morning, from six to two, and he worked from three to 11. So all the time somebody was home with the little girl, so -- there was a lady living next door, a older lady, in between time, just in case he left a little early, put her 10 minutes there til 1 came home, you know, so she always had somebody to take care of my little girl. And --

Q: So you didn't see each other very much then [indecipherable]

A: No, just -- no, no, no, yeah, I know it. But I had this paycheck, I brought a paycheck home and little by little we had to buy a car. So that was the thrilling moment too, you know, so we bought a car.

Q: What kind of car did you buy?

A: A used one, a Plymouth, I remember. And that was very exciting. So ona Sunday afternoon we can go out on a country with our little girl to fr-fresh air, ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 49 walked around in a -- in a -- in a -- you know, nice areas, near the lake or the something, and we were very, very happy, yeah.

Q: How long -- how long did you keep these jobs?

A: Til they moved out, til they moved south, you know, four years we both worked there, and -- when they moved away, where I go? What I gonna do? So -- well, they were saying that farm is for sale, a farm, but the house is very bad condition because that woman died and that house was just standing there, and the son, he was in a -- in a war, and he came back and he promised God he gonna go for a minister, and he did. And [indecipherable] the house was for sale. But the land was excellent, was 39 acre -- 40 acres of land there, and -- and we went there to look at the house and the land -- the land was excellent, I liked it, and the way the house was built, we said the house is repairable, it's worth it to repair, and we did. My husband had good friends, Polish one from his town that came and helped him on a Saturday, Sunday I did the cooking, and they came and worked, and -- and -- and repaired the house and did the -- the fixing up the house and we were happy and we stayed there for five years.

Q: Was it -- did it feel good to go back to something that you had done before --

A: Yes, yes.

Q: -- or was it something that you had to do, you really wanted to do something else?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 50

A: Both, both, yeah. I knew I can do it because I was raised like that, and if we're gonna get this here, we can make a little money, we can make a money. My husband started working on a construction. He make good money. And I -- first we had chicken, I raised little baby chickens, 300. And then they're turning in to be lay -- lay -- laying eggs and everything, you know, and we sold the eggs to the city. And later on we're just keep them for two years, so they were hundred percent layhorn, you know, they were -- were the good chickens. Then we got rid of the chickens and then we start getting cattle. New wa -- new -- two cows and -- and young heifers, to -- I raise myself, I said, you know, so that's what we did.

Had 15 heifers and two cows, and we raised it ourselves and make the money. We kept them heifers for three years, and they were already turning into be a cow. We sold them. We took them to the auction, we sold them, we make a good money.

And then we said now it's time the children start going school, and it's no -- no way to be on a farm so way up there in -- in -- in Vernon Center. Let's go and see if -- they said it's a good buy on Cottage Place, a house, a four family house. And we had a good people what we can borrow some money, sell the farm, and ha -- made a little money on the side, and buy that house, you know? So we had a mortgage on it, but it wasn't scary at all, the mortgage we paid out from the rent money, and later on even, we bought a nice little camp on the water, also paid off from the rent money. And our children went to Holy Trinity School.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 51

Q: I wa -- I want to interrupt for just a second, because you said children, but we have introduced only one so far, so --

A: Oh.

Q: -- so the one --

A: Richard -- Richard was born in 1951. When we came on the farm he was already born, and we raised him over there til -- yeah, we got to the city, and then he -- he went to kindergarten in the -- our ch-children went to Holy Communion, and everything was as -- was in -- yeah, that's where we wanted.

A2: Monument business.

A: Hm?

A2: Monument business.

Q: This was an interruption by -- by Julian Noga, but he should -- she should -- he should not interrupt us right now. We will -- we will get to that. I want to ask you something else first. What was your experience with -- with American neighbors?

They were nice to you?

A: Very, very nice. Very special people, very -- yeah, ver -- especially on the farm, that neighbor, our neighbor, he was -- he got blessed [indecipherable] was so good to us, you know, and helped us a lot of time, and my husband helped them, you know, we were really communicate real good, you know.

Q: Did your war experience come up in any way or was that not talked about?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 52

A: What?

Q: Did your -- di -- does -- that you were in camp, both of you, did that ever come up, or was that something --

A: Yeah, but it was -- that was a -- nobody to -- really discussed this, you know, that -- that was wartime, you know, so yeah. And --

Q: Was that difficult for you though, because you wanted to s -- just to talk about it, or was that something you did at home, but didn't really have an interest in -- in

A: Well, once I remember I told my father-in-law, I said I was in a concentration camp, too. And then he answered me, well everybody was in a concentration camp. So then I didn't talked any more, I was like scared off, and I thought I not going to tell anybody, bu -- nobody believe me anyway, you know, so I kept it to myself, yeah. They didn't understood, you know, that's the way it was, you know?

Q: When -- when you -- when you raised the children, did you have any ideas about how you wanted to raise them, something that was maybe like you were raised, or different from where you were raised, or something that had to do with what you experienced during the war, intolerance or something?

A: No, this had nothing to do, we just want to give them [indecipherable] school, if they want it, if we would be able to, to give them a better education. If you be able -- we didn't know if we will be able to give them a better education. Our USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 53 daughter, she went school, and also then later on to high school, and she graduated when she was 17, something like that. And she got a job in a bank in Utica for -- for awhile, and she later on took courses, all kind of courses, you know, what's was good, she was interested. And well, when she was 20 - 21, not even quite 21, she got married. Yeah. And our son, he was going to Holy Trinity school, and then he went to high school, and from high school he went to college in Morrisville for two years and from Morrisville he went to Michigan for another two years, that time, when he got a job over there. And that's how he was there in Michigan for so long, yeah, and -- yeah.

Q: When -- when you moved to the city, what -- what -- what kind of occupation did -- did Julius have then? What -- what happened then in terms of business- wise?

A: Oh, he's -- he still was working on a construction, and then we were saying -- then he was saying it was actually -- that was his idea, somebody was saying that there is a my -- what -- what you can do, then he said, well, I'm a stonecutter. He said oh my God, you know, why don't you go in the monument business? He said, oh my gosh, he hasn't even thought about, you know. And then we talk it over, we had the little money on the side already. And right there, on the -- where we had the big house, or the four family house, we had a -- a yard over there, a front yard, and then they brought us a couple monuments and they -- he open a monument USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 54 business, you know? That's -- some people said oh my gosh, he had guts to do that, you know?

Q: And it was quite successful [indecipherable]

A: Yes, was successful, yes. And then later on we had a phone call from that lady here what we're -- where we are now. She said, you know, would you like to be interested in a [indecipherable] to buy a place? He said oh my gosh, is that a -- a trick, or is that's true, because he liked that, because he was here a couple times and talked with he-her husband and to herself, you know. He was interested how you make them stones, how you do that, and how you get involved with this, with the people on the cemetery and [indecipherable]. They were really nice. They explained it to him, everything, you know, and then later on, her husband died so quick, that lady's husband and she called us, you want to buy it? We had a little money, and we did, you know.

Q: When -- when was that, about?

A: When was that about? 70 - something.

Q: Early 70 - something?

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Right.

A: And when we came here, gosh, we were so happy, we sold that camp, even we don't need the camp. I said, we not go to the camp now. We sold that house in ontectnstonancedjusietneeg for tarher biormatierabouttfisestecion

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 55

Utica, the four family house, good. And the camp. And so we got here, and made

our home here.

Q: Julius in his interview -- Julian talked about being involved in several

organizations.

A: Yes.

Q: Did you get involved in the same organizations or did you -- yeah, do you see

[indecipherable]

A: Yes, yes, I -- I -- I wasn't against it, I helped him, and if he needed to -- me to -

- for something, I -- I helped him out also. Even I -- if they need me around the

kitchen when they had some doings, I did it. And I never s -- never was against it,

and I found some good friends, too, Polish ones, and I learned so quick Polish, and

thanks God, God was with me. I learned quick Polish and I could communicate

with them, and there was no problem at all.

Q: Did you find friends from your own -- or from Austria, too?

A: No, nobody. I was just -- had my husband with my two children, that's all. But

the Polish people accept me, you know, they adopt me.

Q: Did you have any hobbies, or do you have any hobbies, something that you like

spec -- specpis -- specifically like to do?

A: Not really, I just -- I am not against when my husband want to do something,

you ga -- no, he's the leader what he wants to do and I agree with him, you know, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 56 and I never was against, you know, whatever he wanted to do. And if he want me to, willing to help out something and anything, you know, I did. And --

Q: Did you see your parents again, or did they come to America ever?

A: No, I saw my -- my i -- for the first time in four -- 14 years, I went home for the first time. And that was so happy, my husband said, you know, so you go home now for the first time. So, I did. I -- I still couldn't believe it when I was in a plane that is this true. And my mom and my -- my sisters were waiting on a train depot when I came from Vienna, I took a train to Krieskiren. And they waited on a -- a train depot for me and I saw my mom for the first time after 14 years, and my sisters. And that seemed so funny because my mom, I really had her mem -- memory that she was still the strong woman, and she was different already.

Q: You didn't see your dad again, then?

A: No. I was very, very hurt when I found out my dad died, I was just very hurt.

Q: But you stayed in touch with letters?

A: Oh yes, always, yes, yes. I wrote. You know, when we bought the house, he was happy, you know, he said he would like to come once in a secret, you know, to knock on the door and surprise us, you know, and -- and you know, all kind of ideas, you know, so they were happy. I remember when we came here, he -- once he wrote that bought a motorcycle and he goes -- goes hunting on a motorcycle now, you know, and so it's easier for him, you know, so my husband said, hey, we USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 57 going to do a surprise for him. You're going to buy him a nice [indecipherable] with the -- with the fur inside, nice fur boots, he said, warm boots, you know. So we did, we send it over there, and he was so happy, he couldn't believe it, you know, so, make him feel good, that we are in good shape here, that is we are not poor.

Q: This is the end of tape two, side A, interview with Frieda Noga.

End of Tape Two, Side A Beginning Tape Two, Side B

Q: This is a continuation of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Frieda Noga. This is tape number two, side B. So, when you were in Austria visiting your mother and your sisters, ho -- what was it like to come back to the -- to the country? Did you see friends? Did you see neighbors?

A: Yeah, I saw fr -- my sisters -- first of all my mom, and my sisters. They were happy, very happy. And also some friends already, you know. [indecipherable], you know, so and so. And I thought they still, you know, they still no want to speak to me, or the -- something -- I still got that guilty conscious, you know. And later on I ask my sister what the people talk about me now, how they think about.

Oh, she said, you know, all right, she said that's okay, you know, things. But you know, just so much, you know. And how you doing, and -- and -- and they can see that we went to church, you know, they saw me and all that, I look all right, you USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 58 know, and things. Then later on they ask them how we're doing here, and they said good, good, and so and so to tell them -- told them that time, you know, that we got our own home and we're happy and then --

Q: Did -- did you f -- did you feel -- I me -- I don't -- I don't know how often you S -- you were in touch with -- with people, but did you think there was a real change in -- in -- in --

A: Little bit.

Q: -- thinking and in attitude?

A: Yes, a little bit already, was a -- a change i-in -- you know that they accept me more than -- than, you know, when I was -- before I left. And when I went home the second time, was already better. Then I came with -- our daughter went to Austria for a couple of months. She was 18 then, you know. And they liked her a lot, you know, and they loved her and later on my husband, we -- we all went to Austria. We -- we were quite ma -- more often in Austria. And the more often they saw us, they accept us more and more and more, you know. So, things worked out okay, you know, so --

Q: In -- in -- in general, were your children interested to learn sort of where you were coming from and where Julian are coming from, or was it not really ad -- a deep interest to find out more?

ontectrefbeaneedaushariang er hither btrmedortabnattfiealiaton USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 59

A: Oh yes, they're -- they ask, you know, oh yes, yes. And when the children came, Frieda and Richard also was there, my husband and me, and all our -- of th- the daughters from my oldest sister, they made -- come to -- you know, pick -- they got a big backyard, it was in the summer, you know, a big, beautiful garden.

And they invite all the family, and even friends if y -- they want to come and see us and they put on a big, big party, you know, so -- you know, all kind of food and they were really, really nice to us, and I -- I gonna -- I -- we remember that, that they were so nice. And also the other girl from the older sister, you know, she got a big farm and they put on, you know, the best -- the best Sunday afternoon what they can put on out in a garden, with tables there, with about 30 people all together, and I think that -- they did really the best what they could do for us. And that felt good, that felt all very good for me, you know. I no feel like "m, you know, guilty of the something, you know. So every time, more -- the more often we came and other friends, they invite me, you know, invite us, we should come, but we never had a chance to. Some -- some of them died already, they're gone forever. And some of them what we went to school, they always said, you know, want to see my sister. She write ever -- couple times a month, and she said, you know, certain ladies say hello to you and wish you the very best, and -- and they're thinking of you and they're so happy that you -- you -- you -- you have a good life with your family, and -- and that you got a good husband and a good children and USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 60 everything is worked out good, you know. So that make me feel good, you know, it make me feel good.

Q: Since we are talking about Austria, let me ask you this. Did you follow a little bit the recent political developments in Austria, for instance with Jorg Heider, who is an ultra Conservative being now part of the government. Do you follow that?

A: No, I'm just listen what I am -- I hear, but I would never ever -- politic never interested me, you know. So I, politic I throw away completely, it's just out of my -- my -- my -- my life, I just n -- I'm not interested, yeah.

Q: Well let's go back to America then, and let me ask you about your children, though. Did the -- the camp experience for -- for both of you, and your experience during the war, did -- did that come up when they were smaller? Did they ask questions, or --

A: Well, when they were bigger already, you know, we explained to them, and we went there, and then -- then they understood what was this all about, and -- and why, you know, and things, and it's hard to believe now in -- in the times now that something like that ever happened before, you know? That -- to punish someone for something like that, you know, if you fall in love, they punish someone like that and want to kill them, you know.

Q: Did -- did they learn about the Holocaust, or the -- the second World War in -- in school in any detail?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 61

A: Prob -- probably they did, you know, but I don't know exactly the -- the -- how

much, you know, but they know that was a bad war, and there was a ba -- bad

conditions for s -- a lot of people suffered, and it's hard to explain.

Q: Di -- after the war, in America, did you see the people again who were with

you in Ravensbriick, or did you hear about them?

A: No, I just heard from one lady, she -- th -- Rosie Yolkman. She was later on in

government, a big -- big position she had over there.

Q: She was a kapo, she was a kapo

A: She was a -- she wa -- no, she was -- sh -- she was a blockalteste. She had the

whole block number on where we were. She had to -- she was our boss, you know,

our blockalteste. So --

Q: And she was -- she was Polish?

A: No, she was a Vienna, Austrian. Maybe Czechoslovakian, but she was in

Vienna and she spoke aust -- completely Austrian and that's all I know, yeah.

Q: Were there things in America that you didn't like as much -- I mean, you liked

a lot of things, I guess, but were there also some things you didn't quite agree with

or that you didn't like, in the earlier years maybe, or later on?

A: In this country, you mean? Well, that was -- I missed holidays like with my

family, and -- but other hand, we work late, we always together, with Julian, our

children, and we had friends, a lot of friends. And tha-that's my life, you know, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 62 the -- Julian and our children, you know, that's my -- and grandchildren now, you know, that's our happiest life, yeah.

Q: Did you -- do you feel there was any effect on you by certain events in this country, like for instance the Civil Rights movement when the -- you know, the -- did you -- did you know about that in -- in detail, were you interested in those kinds of --

A: No. Nothing interests me, I -- Ino get involved with anything politic, it's just -- to me it's just out.

Q: And do you feel that your -- your own suffering, as -- as a Christian, as Austrian, has not been -- is -- is not quite so ingrained in the consciousness of people here in America, that they don't know quite as much of was that than they know about the suffering, for instance, from Jewish people?

A: I think they don't believe it that something like that happen. I don't think that they believe in that, I don't think so. I don't think they believe that's Austrian, if they na -- were a criminal or the something, that they -- that they put somebody in a concentration camp, you know. But the people what come from over there, they knew them -- them laws that time, you know, they said, oh yes we know that that - - that was against the law, you know, to fall in love with foreigner at that time, you know, that was very much against the law, you know. But that we had to go USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 63 through something awful like that, and -- but just God was with us, God was good wi -- to us that we made it, you know, so --

Q: Did you have any -- could you give any particular example when you realized that people really don't know that much, when you told them that you were in a camp, and there was maybe somebody responding in a certain way?

A: I don't think they want to -- they want to listen. And they not -- they don't want to know nothing about it, you know, so that just not much to talk about, you know, to them, you know, so that's why I keep -- keep it inside and oh, Julian and -- and me, we can talk together, because we know what we had to go through and what was all about.

Q: When you talked -- when you gave the first interview, the videotaped interview for the Holocaust Museum, was that the first time you ever really spoke about that experience?

A: Yes, yes, I always -- y-yes. When we were young we didn't had time to think about, we were so busy with working, children and our life and things like. I always pushed it away. Sometime it came into my mind, oh, but I always pushed it away and -- and I don't want to think about. That was like a dream, you know, something in -- and that's just -- had to go away again, you know. But when I -- we went to the Holocaust mus -- that time when we had the interview, that night, you know, I was thinking -- all night I didn't sleep and I was thinking from the USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 64 first day what happened and what we had to go through. I was shook up, I mean, you know, I really was thinking to the bottom you know, how that happened, what happened, you know. Because I always pushed it out of my -- out of my mind, you know, before, you know. I don't want to think about, you know. But then it came to me and it was hard to talk about, very hard to talk about.

Q: Are there any particular memories, that are especially difficult for you, or what -- what is it that still comes up now and then?

A: The cruelty, I mean, you know, and that something like that could happen, I mean, you know, so -- so many people to put together and there were, you know, so many people in a concentration camp who didn't do any crime, it was no crime, it was just their -- their life there, for what -- what they came from, you know, like -- like the -- the -- the -- all kind, like the Gypsies, there were Gypsies there, and wer -- there were the Jehovah Witness there, and there were so many young girls there. And politician also, what they -- they're -- couldn't help it, that was their thinking. And it was just hard to -- to accept.

Q: Julian, in his interview said that voting, to be able to vote was very important for him. Was it important --

A: In this country? Of course, yes, yes, very proud that we got an American citizenship and that we go vote, and we never miss it, and we never missed it since USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 65 we are citizens. And we are very proud about to be -- to be American citizen. We want to be a good citizen, too.

Q: What -- what does it mean for you to be a good citizen here?

A: Good citizen? To be good, to not do anything bad against anybody, you know, so -- yeah, so.

Q: What -- what political ar -- you said you're not so interested in politics, but what political directions do you feel -- direction party do you feel closer to?

A: The worker's party, you know, the people, for the working people, you know, so I think when I vote, a lot of time I vote for the person who is there, who I know, if he's a good person. If not, I do not vote for the -- even if it's my party. And if it's somebody there what is -- somebody el -- if he -- I think it's a good person, do the job good, I vote for them, you know. But since -- I think I'm pretty much democratic, yeah, yeah. Sorry, say that.

Q: Do you think the world has learned anything? I mean, many years have passed now, do you think the world has learned anything from what happened during the second World War?

A: I just hope never -- something like that never going to happen again. I mean, I don't know how it got that far, I mean that there so many, especially young people, or older people also, you know, and young men what they got lost in the USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0067 66 war, also. And concentration camps, and -- and anyway, that they had to live through such a difficult time.

Q: Your two children, do you feel that -- are you close to them?

A: Very much. Children are always first.

Q: Do you think you were a prot -- very protective mom?

A: I don't know, maybe sometime too protective.

Q: You wanted to give them the -- the best?

A: Yeah. Yes.

Q: Is there anything that you would like to say that we think we haven't talked about? I mean, 50 years in America, that's a long time, too, and you built a new life --

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: -- and is there anything sort of that was a highlight, that was especially important to you?

A: I -- ""m very thankful that we're -- we're -- are in this country, and that we had a chance to make our life here, and our -- our children had the education -- well, our son is born here, and fr -- and our daughter is born in Austria, but she came here when she was 18 months old, and she got education here, and everything, and their life is in this country, and I'm very thankful that we are happy together and that we are here in this country. God bless America.

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Q: Oh, you have two grandchild -- you have grandchildren now?

A: Two grandsons, yes, yes.

Q: Do you see each other often?

A: Ah yeah, we -- on holidays, or the -- or the -- or the -- you know, especially on holidays and birthdays, and things we're together, oh yes, yes. One, Eric, that's the youngest one, he's still home with his mom, he goes college. And the older one is married already, 28, and he's married and he's a -- a sport teacher, and his wife that he married, she's also a teacher. And they bought a beautiful home, they invited us a couple of months ago, it's just very, very nice life.

Q: Do they ever ask you about the past?

A: Mm, never -- never had an occasion to -- to talk about that with them, you know, no.

Q: I think you, both of you, Julian and you told your story in a newspaper or something?

A: Yes.

Q: Wh-When was that, and what newspaper?

A: Utica Observer Dispatch, yes, yes.

Q: When -- when was that?

A: When was it? Oh --

Q: Recently?

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A: Oh, a couple times already, yeah. And the last one I think it was two years ago, something like that, yes.

Q: Did you get any comments from people --

A: Oh yes, oh yes.

Q: What -- what kinds --

A: People call in and say, you know, they're so sorry that we had to go through, and even now, not long ago I met somebody, you know, I didn't even know that woman, she came up to me and she said, I saw that article in the paper. You had to go through such bad times, you know, and I'm so sorry. I said thank you for your understand that f -- thank you -- I thanked her for it, that was worth it for her to say them nice words to me.

Q: Well, unless you have something that you want to add just -- or talk about something I haven't asked you about --

A: No, I'm very satisfied, and my life -- too bad my parents and my family had to go through, and also we had to go through such a hard times and difficult and things. But that time that was the law, and that's how it happened, but we made it and God was good to us, and he let us live through, and made -- heal the wounds, and we have a good life, and we are very happy.

Q: I didn't ask you about your faith. Are you -- do you think you are a religious person?

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A: Catholic, yes, I pray a lot at home. I'm not able to go church any s -- every Sunday any more because of my arthritis, I had operation, two hip replacements, and -- and think it's -- if I get a chance go to church, I go to church, but I pray at home a lot, so -- and God n -- only God knows it, too.

Q: Did you ever lose faith?

A: Never. No, I never lost faith. I believe in God.

Q: Well thank you very much.

A: Thank you. God bless this country, and God bless you, too.

Q: Thank you very much. This concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Frieda Noga. This is tape two, side B. Thank you very much.

A: Welcome.

End of Tape Two, Side B

Conclusion of Interview