Document

ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton CAROLINA TAITZ January 24, 2010 Beginning File One

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview with Carolina Taitz, conducted by Gail Schwartz, on January 24", 2010, in McLean, Virginia. Tell me your full name.

A: My full name is Carolina Taitz.

Q: And what name were you born with?

A: And I am --I was born with the name Lena Knoch. Knoch.

Q: And where were you born?

A: I was born, basically, in Russia, but I cannot say that's in Russia, because I lived all my life in Latvia, in the Baltic states. So, basically I always say I'm born in Latvia. Riga.

Q: Well, but wa -- wh-where in Russia were you born, though?

A: I don't remember that name. This is a long, long name --

Q: What --

A: -- the Russian name.

Q: Was it near any big city? Was it a small --

A: Nobody even ask me about -- tha-that's not important.

Q: Okay. And when were you born?

A: Yeah, I was born February 24, "29. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz : January 24, 2010

Q: And let's talk about your family. Tell me about your parents.

A: My parents was my father, my mother. My sister was nine years older than I, and I had a brother, a little boy, who was almost as old as I was. One year of difference.

And the Germans kill all of them.

Q: Yes. What was your father's name?

A: My father's name was Mordechai.

Q: And what kind of work did he do?

A: He was a specialist in ta-- at -- he was a tree doctor. You know when -- like, you say a apple tree gets sick, they called my father and he'd get -- did -- gave ai--a injection, and the tree come back to life.

Q: Wonderful.

A: Yeah.

Q: I think we call that an arborist.

A: I don't know, I call him a tree doctor.

Q: A tree doctor.

A: Very primitive.

Q: And where was he from?

A: My father was from Latvia also. From ri-- a -- he lived in Livani, Livani, th-the name where he was born is Livani, in Latvia. Interview with Carolina Taitz deg January 24, 2010

Q: In Latvia. And your mother, what was her name?

A: My mother's name was Frieda, and she is from -- also from Latvia. And where she was born is the name I don't know, but there where she comes from is Subata.

The name of the town is Subata.

Q: Was that in --

A: Also Latvia.

Q: Latvia. And your brother and sister's names were?

A: My sister's name was Berta. In Yiddish we'd say Bayla(ph), but in passport she was Berta. And my brother's name was Gedalia(ph). Gedalia(ph).

Q: Yeah. And how long did you live in Russia before you came to Latvia?

A: I didn't live in Russia, not one day.

Q: Oh, I thought you were born in Russia.

A: I--I was born in the -- in the train.

Q: Oh, on a train?

A: I- you know, I was not -- I --I did -- I didn't live, I was just born. My mom had the birth.

Q: On a train?

A: A train, or ship, I don't remember.

Q: Oh, I see. And so then you came to lat -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz deg January 24, 2010

A: Came to Latvia, I -- all my life, I live in Latvia, and everything what happened to me, what happened in Latvia.

Q: Yeah. Was your family a religious family?

A: Yeah, they was very religious.

Q: Very religious. And so you observed the holidays?

A: What?

Q: You observed the holidays?

A: Yes, yes, we did observe.

Q: Do you have any favorite holidays that you remember?

A: Pesach. I was born in Purim, because February comes out in Purim. But my favorite is Pesach, love Pesach.

Q: And did you have aunts and uncles and grandparents?

A: Yes, I did have a lot of them, and they was all killed. I have pictures, I showed you, I have the pictures.

Q: Okay. And did they live nearby?

A: That's my grandmother. No, let's speak about my mother's family.

Q: Side, okay.

A: Yeah, my -- they are also all from Latvia, all from Latvia. And the town where my grandmother live, from my mother's side -- then from the father's side later -- ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010 from my mother's side, the whole family lived in Subata. Subata, that's the name of the town where my mother's mother and grandfather lived. But later, the Germans killed them.

Q: Yeah, yeah. And --

A: And from my father's side, I don't know much from my father's side. Yes, he did have a father that was my zeyde, and he did came sometimes to visit us. And he was from Livani, also Latvia. We are -- all the family in my relatives, everybody from Latvia.

Q: What language did you speak at home?

A: At home I spoke Latvian, German, and Mamaloshen - Yiddish.

Q: And Yiddish.

A: Lam fluent in this lang -- and I am fluent in Russian.

Q: Yeah.

A: In Russian language. That I learn when they -- they occupy the country.

Q: Right. And what kind of neighborhood did you live in? Was it Jewish and non- Jewish?

A: In that -- in that -- my father had -- I lived not far from Riga, in -- in -- out of Riga, the little town where -- where my childhood was, was in Viesite. It was hundred kilometers from Riga. My father has a little house, and we had the beautiful fruit ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz deg January 24, 2010 garden. And I went there to school, in that Viesite. And I finished six years, six -- six classes. Then the Germans came, and then I was --

Q: Yeah, we'll talk about that.

A: Yeah, that's la -- comes later.

Q: That's later. Wa -- what kind of school? Was it a Jewish school, or was it --

A: No, it was not.

Q: -- a public school?

A: It was a very -- it was a public, very Latvian school. Very Latvian. But, we had once a week to come a rabbi, and taught us Yiddish, if we do like it. And I liked it, I like languages, I learned that. That's why I know very well Mamaloshen.

Q: Right. And did you have non-Jewish friends?

A: Yes, a lot. We wa -- mingled. The Jewish in tha -- we -- we -- there was a lot in -- in that little town, in Viesite, where I lived, there was a lot of Jews, and also a lot of Latvians. And, you know, in the -- such a little town, people get friendly. We mingled with the pretty -- later these Latvians shoot us and killed us. That's a irony, but that's the way it was.

Q: Right, right. So did you -- at that time, you did not experience any anti-s --

A: I can't hear you.

Q: At that time, when you were a child, before the war -- Interview with Carolina Taitz deg January 24, 2010

A: Yeah, sure.

Q: There was no anti-Semitism.

A: It was, but we really didn't feel it. Only when the Germans came in, the la -- the Latvians ga -- went on their side, and start killing the Jews.

Q: No, but before the Germans came, before the germ --

A: No, it -- on -- it -- an-anti-Semitism is all -- all over, was, but we didn't really feel it so much. We was very friendly with Latvians, and the Latvians was friendly. Like when we had Pesach fela -- we sending - my mom sent matzos and wine. And when they have their Latvian Christmas, they send us presents and everything. We was very close to the Latvians. That's why I spoke Latvian at my -- with my parents.

Q: Did you like sports?

A: No, I hated it.

Q: Did you like to --

A: In the school I had only the worse marks.

Q: Did you like to read?

A: What?

Q: Did you like to read? Read books?

A: Tlove to read, til today. I read a lot, and I like classics, and I read -- all the Russian classics, I read. I like to read very much [indecipherable] Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: And I like to dance, because by my profession, I am a actress.

Q: Oh, okay. And so, as a child, you went to school, you did all --

A: I went to school, I was very Latvian, because there was maybe one Jewish -- I was Jewish; my brother, my little brother; and one more Jewish. But we attended that particular rabbi who came.

Q: Yeah.

A: But then I learned about Jesus Christ, because it was also a pastor coming --

Q: Right.

A: -- and teaches Christian religion. So, and I--1--in my school, I -- that's why I know the Old Testament, and the New Testament.

Q: So were -- were there many other Jews in your town?

A: A lot of Jews, and di--they mostly went to Jewish schools.

Q: And why did your parents send you to public school?

A: I don't know, because we was very friendly with the mi-- Latvians.

Q: Did you live in a house, or an apartment?

A: No, we lived in a house. My father had a little house. I will show you, I have it, the photo. And the -- their -- their house had five little apartments divided, and he Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

rent that out. And we had, on the left side, our apartment, big apartment. I mean, three rooms, kitchen.

Q: So your childhood was a happy childhood.

A: Very happy childhood.

Q: Okay. And then, when did things begin to change?

A: At first the Russians occupied the country, and they were communists, they was communists. And it was horrible, bad time. They took away our -- we had a horse, we had two cows, we had a lot of animals, because we lived in -- we had like a ranch, you know. And -- and my father lost his wer -- his job, they didn't let him -- they ar-arrested him, and --

Q: Because he was a capitalist.

A: Yes, because he has a house, and a house is a capitalist, yeah.

Q: Capitalist, right, yeah. Were your -- were your parents Zionists?

A: What?

Q: Were your parents Zionists?

A: What is that?

Q: Zionist. Committed to Israel, you know, did they -- did they talk about --

A: Maybe -- maybe they had. Every Jew loves Israel.

Q: No, but in those days, were your parents -- did they talk about that at all? Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Yeah, they loved Israel always.

Q: Yeah, right. Yeah.

A: That word was -- was figuring it out [indecipherable]

Q: Okay, so the Russians came, took away your father's business, and --

A: We was very nervous situation, they -- Pa-Papa couldn't get a job, they arrested him, he was in prison. Nobody knows why, he didn't do a thing, because he's a capitalist. Thank God they didn't send him out to Siberia.

Q: Right.

A: Because a lot of Jews they sent out to Siberia.

Q: Right.

A: But my father somehow no, he was home.

Q: Then they released him from prison.

A: They rele -- yeah, release him. Because, after a very short time, the Germans came.

Q: Right. Now what did your mother and father say to you? You were a young girl at that time. You were what, 10 years old?

A: You see, I will tell you -- no, I was less than -- I think nine I was --

Q: Or nine.

A: -- or eight. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010

Q: And -- and -- so what -- how did they explain this to a young girl?

A: My father loved the Germans. Why? Because he was [indecipherable] in the first war. He was on -- riding a train, and he was like a med -- med si -- sistant. Like a nurse.

Q: Yeah, mm-hm.

A: We call it a-- how do -- how do we call --

Q: He was a medical assistant.

A: She wa -- he was work on the shi-- coming from Russia to -- to Riga wi -- with that train, he was working helping people. He was -- became a -- a nurse. A man nurse. So then we settled in Latvia, we came to Latvia back from Russia, because my father loved very much Germany. He loved Germany, because he was in the first war, and the Germans treated him wonderful. They was -- my father never, never, never believable that such a culture as Germans could do such a horrible thing. That's why he didn't ran away. Because you know, all that -- that what was under the communism, we was under the communism, everybody run away, not to be with the communists. Everybody loved the Germans because the Germans say, we will save you from the communists, we will be good to you. But they -- that's only words. What they did, we know.

Q: Right. So, when the Germans came in -- Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Yeah.

Q: -- your life went on, or what --

A: It was horrible. Right away there was -- Latvians, my school friends, came and, I'm going to kill you. He sits right away in -- on -- on my -- my -- in school desk, he was sitting right on me. I -- you are a Jew, Jew, Jew, just hear this word. It was horrible. Anti-Semitism was -- the Latvians, good Latvians, who loved my father and loved my mo -- and the children, they was murderous. The Latvians shoot the Jews right on the street.

Q: And --

A: And -- and we just hold together, the family was holding together. We -- father and mother, we know what -- we didn't know that the German will be so terrible, because my father -- I am not going around to Russia -- from Russia, because the German -- I was on the first war -- World War, and the German treated me wonderful. And he came from the first war, and he was a -- bring -- for the [indecipherable] and everything.

Q: Yeah.

A: The Germans was wonderful the -- the first time. He could never believe that that's what is going to happen.

Q: Okay, and then what, and then -- Interview with Carolina Taitz 6 January 24, 2010

A: Tho -- so, we stay in Latvia, the Germans occupy the country.

Q: Yeah, and then what happened?

A: And then there comes -- Himmler came, and say, all the Jews has to be killed.

Germany has to be Judenfrei. That was hi--- the diagnose. All Jews has to be putting in the ghetto. Then was not a ghetto yet, but then they made out i-in a-- ina place, Maskavas For-ForState was the name, and they made a ghetto out of that.

Q: That -- that was a town -- you mean, that was the name of a town --

A: In town, in Latvia, in Latvia, not far from --

Q: Okay. And that's where [indecipherable]

A: Not far from bate -- how was the name? I have it ri -- written down --

Q: Okay. That's okay.

A: -- I will tell you --

Q: That's okay.

A: -- I cannot remember right now.

Q: So they made the ghetto.

A: Yeah, we, all the -- all the Jews, so now we lived in the ghetto.

Q: Okay, what year was that? Do you know when they --

A: They came, I think "41.

Q: Forty-one, right, okay. And so they made the ghetto right away? Interview with Carolina Taitz 6 January 24, 2010

A: We was all together. So my father found --

Q: Did you have to wear a yellow star?

A: Yes, and we did have to wear a star. Himmler came and told e -- all that we -- and so all the Jews, every Jew, went the ghetto. We was miserable. No food, no nothing. So people, some people put bread over -- over the --

Q: Fence, the wall?

A: The --

Q: Was there a wall around the ghetto?

A: It was i-iron, how you call that?

Q: Yeah, an iron fence?

A: Huh?

Q: An iron fence?

A: I-Iron fence, so the people -- good people were -- but when the Germans is -- they shoot these people, they shouldn't be doing that.

Q: Good Latvians threw bread over.

A: Latvians, good -- good Latvians.

Q: Good lat --

A: There was bad and good --

Q: Right. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: -- you know, you can say that.

Q: How did it feel to you as a young girl, to have to wear the yellow star?

A: I--I- everybody did. I didn't understand that. I really -- I remember that I was not even thinking about. I thought this is only a short time. Everything. The shooting, and we -- like a child, you know, I was dreadful scared, all the time scared, because suddenly the Latvians, you know, I have to tell you, I have a lot of episodes. This is -- I call it the louse. This is a story that pu -- the -- the -- the doll, that's a story. You know, that's what -- what I have seen, what -- what goes through my head, what I s-still remember. There is a lot of --

Q: Can you tell me --

A: --ed--- stories, what you have to -- I have to tell you, then you can only understand what happened.

Q: Well, tell me a story that happened.

A: It was shooting, killing, raping, you name it, everything.

Q: And this is what you saw as a young girl?

A: [have seen everything, because I am alive.

Q: Yeah.

A: Iwas even in Rumbula. That's where the killing was, no, but that comes later.

Q: Later. Okay, let's talk more about the ghetto. So, what did you do in -- Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: We have our old Jewish police, that pick up young man, and say you are going to be in -- in the ghetto, you will make ordnung here. You will be the police. So, all the young boys, I knew them, because my fiance, my husband -- my first husband, I was married twice -- they was in school together. So, I know all these friends I know. So they were all in ghetto, all Jewish. Beautiful families, and -- and each --

Q: So there was a -- there was a Jewish police force in the ghetto.

A: Come -- what?

Q: There was a Jewish --

A: Only for Jews.

Q: Right. And what did they do? What did the Jewish police force do?

A: We lived in one room, all my father, mother, my brother, my sister and me. Can you believe five people in one room? And outside was a bathroom to go make pee- pee. And the other families also lived there. It was horrible, it was --

Q: What did you bring with you from your house? Did you bring anything with you?

A: Yes, I did, the-they let us take some s -- the -- Himmler let us take some clotheses, only clotheses. Because they confiscated everything. They came in the apartment, took the -- the -- the pictures, they -- we had the piano, they took our piano. Everything. We came in the ghetto, just a little clotheses, a blanket, you http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010 know. That -- they controlled what you take with you. They was controlling everything.

Q: Did you bring anything yourself, any books, or any games or anything, as a child?

A: They burned all the books. If you did have a book, they burned, they take out of you, they -- they took it in, and then they put in the light in the -- they burned the books, and when I saw that, it breaks my heart.

Q: What -- so how did you get food in the ghetto?

A: No food. We were starving. I was absolutely starving. I have, until today, I feel really bad, because no food. Sometimes it's depend. If you was working with a good German, he gave you sometimes when they finished food, soup. And the soup was -- I remember the soup. It was water, and a list of a kapusta. How you call that? You don't speak Russian.

Q: So you didn't have much food.

A: No food, no.

Q: Did your fa -- did your father work in the ghetto?

A: You know, the men was working. They --

Q: What did your father do?

A: I don't remember. Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

Q: What did some of the other men do?

A: They took -- they -- they took them in the morning, there was a group, a group of men, who worked for the Germans in -- in -- in all kind of organizations. I also worked.

Q: What did you do?

A: I do funny things, what I did. A group of girls like me -- you know, we was always very scared not to be raped, but the -- the Germans was drinking vodka, and they was coming night, and taking girls, you know, rape them. And sometimes they killed them, but sometimes they let them get home. O-Other German rape her. And that was a lot. And my mom was, because two girls, me and my sister, and I was very ugly, I was not a pretty kid. I get better, you know, I looked like this.

Q: Oh.

A: That's my real face. What can I tell you?

Q: So, you were never attacked.

A: No.

Q: You

A: My mom -- you know, I watch myself, and I was -- I-- 1I--I see a German, I go away back home, you know.

Q: Yeah. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: I was just running away from them, because --

Q: So there was -- were there any schools in the ghetto? Any sc-schools?

A: No.

Q: No classes.

A: No -- not school.

Q: Did you have any --

A: But it was a --a clinic. Our own -- the -- a-- a Jewish -- because it is full with Jewish doctors, the doctors who lived in the ghetto took care of that.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: Not long time ago, one of them was still alive. He wrote me a letter, and he died.

Q: Yeah.

A: The doctor what I li -- personally, I knew him.

Q: So you stayed inside the ghetto.

A: Inside. Inside in the ghetto.

Q: Yeah.

A: Who --- the -- the working was good, because when you can go out, you always somebody get you piece of bread, then you put it in the pocket. When you get through the door, this is a German officer. So, he looks at you, and I -- I remember, I -- I had -- somebody gave me a potato, a cooked potato. I put it in the -- in my pocket ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010 in my coat, and when I was going through the -- the entrance where the German officer, he found that potato, and he give me a clap in my eye, til today my eye is -- bothers me.

Q: So what did you do all day long in the ghetto?

A: I was going -- you know when -- they picked us up five o'clock in the morning --

Q: Okay.

A: -- and then five o'clock in the evening they bring us back.

Q: What kind of work did you do?

A: I did, you know, I don't know, my English is so bad, but I will remember. I was working a shoeshine fabrik(ph)

Q: Okay.

A: You know, you have shoes --

Q: You polish?

A: --and you polish --

Q: Polish.

A: -- polish. So there was, from the airplane, broken shoe -- shoe -- shoeshine, the boxes. I did have to take the -- the boxes out of the bed, and put it in a new box.

Q: I see, yeah.

A: And then was a little candle, and then put it on top, and then it makes even. Interview with Carolina Taitz deg8 January 24, 2010

Q: Yeah.

A: And I close it, and the Germans have that girls, 10 girls was working, and then they sell it, and give it back to the German.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: I can only the shoeshine fabrik(ph), I don't know how to say.

Q: It's okay, yeah, a factory, yeah. And so, did you talk to the other girls? Were you allowed to talk?

A: Yeah, there was all -- all live in ghetto, hungry. Our biggest talk was oh, I am so hungry, I am so hungry.

Q: Really?

A: We was dying, we want a little place.

Q: Yeah.

A: The potato was cooked, you know.

Q: Yeah. So, did you observe any of the holidays? I mean, did your family stay --

A: No, no, no, no, nothing.

Q: No, nothing.

A: The Germans wouldn't even want that, no. We avoided that.

Q: Yeah. And then how long did you stay in the ghetto?

A: Ah, God. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

Q: From 1941 to --

A: Yeah, one beautiful day, on the entrance where the -- where the Je-Jews was going to work, because mainly men was only going to work. The women very lit -- little. Women was staying in -- in the ghetto, in their apartments. I don't know why they didn't use women, because men are stronger, and they use them. And Monday was a big sign on the door, that all Jews, women, men and children, has to stand outside the ghetto, in line, because we are going to be taken to a other concentration camp. So that particular day, we all came out. We schlepped with us what we could, you know, because we don't know what are we going, where are we going, maybe -- everybody say no, we are going to be killed, we are going to be killed. Because everybody was killed and killed and killed. So what are they going to put in a different place?

Q: Now, were your grandparents and your other relatives with you in the ghetto?

A: No, no. There was a different killing. Ri-Riga -- Riga was separate, that my grandmother lived in Subata, there was the same thing in Subata. My father lived in Livani, in Livani was the same thing. And --

Q: Okay, so they were all in their own ghettos, they were in different --

A: That -- the Riga, the pe -- we --I speak only about the Riga ghetto.

Q: Yeah. Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: Riga.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: That's the -- the place where I --

Q: But I'm saying your relatives were in different ghettos.

A: No, no, no, no, they -- th-the -- my -- they was married [indecipherable] all lived to ge -- my family was holding together; Papa, Mama, my sister, my brother and me.

Q: No, no, your -- yo-your grandparents and your aunts and uncles were --

A: No, no, no --

Q: -- in different --

A: -- my grandparents lived in there --

Q: -- different [indecipherable]

A: -- they was killed separate.

Q: Yes. Yeah.

A: And in every town where live -- was living Jews, they put it together --

Q: Right.

A: -- and killed them.

Q: Yeah, right.

A: But it's nothing to do with Riga because --

Q: Yeah. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010

A: -- because I am from Riga --

Q: Right.

A: --I'm telling you only about Riga.

Q: Right.

A: The place where they killed the Jews, the name was Rumbula. Rumbula.

Q: Well now, let's go back. You were s -- you all went outside, there was that big sign, okay.

A: Yeah, we were staying in line.

Q: And so you're s -- and you're standing in line. Then what happened?

A: So, they -- we -- we hope that we are going to go to a other concentration camp, maybe it will be better, we don't know. So we know -- we don't know where we are going. In that particular line was 30,000 people. Thirty-thousand people. And we stay in line and was freezed, it was cold, it-it -- it was ever -- terribly. So, th-th-the German general didn't give a damn, big deal, so you freeze. And then they start walking. Yeah, on every side of the group, you know, the people was going like that. Here are the people. On every side was a German soldier. On every side. And one of these German soldiers, I knew him. He was a Latvian, and I knew him. I say, can you tell me -- and he was not [indecipherable] can you tell me where we are Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

going? He say, I only know that you are going to be in a different concentration camp.

Q: Do you know what year this was?

A: I don't know.

Q: Okay.

A: Forty --1--afta--"42.

Q: Forty-two.

A: Must be deg42.

Q: Okay.

A: No, we -- we grow already also bigger. And -- and always hungry, always hungry, want to eat something. When I came out of -- you know, when the war was over, I eat so much, I -- I-- I wind up in the hospital.

Q: So you're marching, and where did you --

A: We was marching, that's the word.

Q: Okay. And then, where did you go?

A: We -- on -- on the sosej(ph). There was -- a sosej(ph) is a -- where the machines go, how you --

Q: A train? A train station?

A: Huh? Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010

Q: A train station?

A: No, no. A sosej(ph) is a street.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: And this is not a si-- you know, street. We was going where the street goes.

Q: Okay.

A: And we go and go and go and go. We do -- we don't know where we go, we just go.

Q: Yeah. And -- and then where did you si-- and where did you end up?

A: I don't know. In the middle of -- of that march, somebody start screaming and say, you better run, because everybody will be dead, everybody will be killed.

Nobody knew that. So the -- the -- the line star -- people running. The moment you run, th-they shoot you, you -- shoot you right away. Stay back in line, stay back in line. So, I came and stay back in line with Papa, Mama, and my sister, because we didn't want to lose each other. We hold all the time together. Also, there was my uncle, my father's brother, who was also with us, his wife and two little children, four year and six year. And they was all with us, and they was killed. So I don't know, but I wind up in a wild place. I saw -- I saw a--a gra -- grave. Is this a grave?

Q: A ditch? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: A ditch, a ditch. And there was people with -- with ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta -- the shooters with the -- and the Germans say stay in line, or -- we was back there, we was very back. So the first people -- because I just saw that, I was not there, but I saw that. They sta -- stand on th -- on the ditch. On that side was the shooters. There was Latvians and Germans. And the Jewish people -- you know, there is a mother with the child, and two little -- every -- the Jewish people have children, a lot of children. They stay, and the machine gun was tata-tata-tata -- I remember this -- the sound. The sound was tata-tata-tata-tata-tata-tata-tata, and they was falling in that grave, half dead, half alive. The little children screaming, people was be-benching to God. Wa -- be -- woman was scr-screaming and yelling and crying. It is a mess, you know, that is just like -- what -- what can I feel? I feel nothing. I am like I--I--- it's like a joke, or something, I don't know. But I did say -- see that. But I was not on the grave. I was li-- in the line, what was the line, I was very far. Til I came back -- you know what happened? I was already -- I remember one -- one moment. I did have to take off my coat. Before, I remember my father, in the good times, he was ba -- he bought me a wonderful pur -- purple is my color, you know, I'm a Pisces, and purple is my color, and my coat was purple, and was new and wonderful. The Germans -- and then -- though it wa -- was our -- one place, all the coats must be in one place. The jewelry, what you have jewelry like this, everything in the box. So http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010 ba -- when you have a hat, is in a different place, the shoes. There was so many. Aga -- how you call that in English? A mountain of shoes, a mountain of s -- coat. And I wanted -- oh yeah, already wanted to take, because the German said take off your coat and stay in line. And -- and it was cold, and I kind of tried to take out the coat, and I couldn't take it off, so I put it on back, and I stand wi -- til our line was come, we are going to be dead in a minute. So the line was going slowly, slowly, slowly, and so we stay, my father, mother, we stay all together, and my uncle, and the two little babies. And suddenly, you know, this is the worst moment in my life. I know why I was always -- use that. That particular moment, I will never forget that. I don't know from where, I don't know why, suddenly arri -- arrived four Germans on horses. White, beautiful horses. And on every horse was a general, a German general. Not a Hakenkreuz, because some of them was Hakenkreuz, they were the worst. No Hakenkreuz, just German uniform. Til today I don't know who they were. That was a miracle. And he said out -- not chasen, out, out, out, not chasen(ph), not chasen(ph). And -- and the [indecipherable] stopped. And that general of the four horses say, women, if you are schneiderinin(ph) come to me, come to me, come to me. I need -- I have a factory, and you can work as schneiderin in my factory. My mom grabbed me and my sister and screamed, I am a schneiderin, mine children's in schneiderin [indecipherable] my life. We were Interview with Carolina Taitz *t January 24, 2010

schneiderin, and -- and there's was my father, my sister and my brother stayed on the grave, they was killed, in that particular time, in Rumbula, that was happened in Rumbula. That is the -- the name, Rumbula, where the killing was. And that, I am the only witness alive, of today. The only. I will show you in the corridor, I have a little memorial there. So, how chasen -- my mom -- so we stay -- we'll stay with the officer. You know, every little thing maybe will be different. At least my mom has both -- both girls, you know. She was very happy. We are schneiderin and we shall stay. So, there was a running other woman, other woman, and it was a group with about 200, or 150, I really don't remember. The people know each other from a [indecipherable] shtetl, you know, you know each other. And so -- so was, we stayed there behind the four fe -- horses, beautiful horses, I will never forget these horses. And they -- there -- the uniform what the -- the Germans has, was like Wehrmacht. This is a different German, the kind of. No Hakenkreuz. I really looked at that, it was no Hakenkreuz. They was Wehrmacht officers, but they was officers, definitely big -- big shots. So, when the group was about 150 already, we moved. The other, they moved. He -- we -- he took it out of that. They basically save us, kind of, in a way. So, he say, you follow me. This group goes on -- this is the other group. You come after me, we will go ahead. So the four horses went the front, and we went under. We was tired, and hungry, but we went, because we ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010 thought maybe this a good thing, maybe we'll work as schneiderin, and that's very good. So we walk and walk through the woods. It was all the same. They -- they went this way, we went this way. So we walk and walk and walk, and where we walk, I am from Riga, I know every corner. It is the prison. It is Termin(ph) prison, the name was Termin(ph), Termin(ph) prison, the name of the prison. The -- the -- that the -- how you call that? The prison [indecipherable] get up -- you know, it is from wood, such -- with eyes that went up, and th-the -- the horses and the people were standing here, with all these 150 or 20, I don't remember how many, went in and -- and this a [indecipherable] prison. I was never in prison, I didn't know, but you know, you know how a prison looks, yes. But the four -- the -- the -- this -- the Germans on the four horses stayed outside. We never saw him. We never worked as schneiderinin(ph). Til today, I kn-know that they saved our lives, because they took us away from the [indecipherable]. Otherwise we -- we stayed in the line, because it were only lucky we -- we stayed in the back. Otherwise, we would be killed, like other people. So, now we're in the pri-prison. What are we going to do, 150 people about, or 20, I don't know. So, usually in a prison when you are, you get your own kamera with a little whatever. No, the Jews didn't get that. They took us on -- on top on the prison, with a open sky, and it was November, I remember that was November. It was cold. It was very cold, and it -- the waywer -- the weather was http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010 wonderful, not snowing, and not raining. At that time in Latvia is always terrible snow, and terrible rain. Nothing. So, we sit all together [indecipherable] to each other because it was cold. So we just -- the little group what was there, we were -- how you call that?

Q: On the roof?

A: On a roof, on the prison roof, on top. There was no cover, and we were so -- the moon, the -- the -- the stars we saw. But here it was a open place, how you call that, it wer -- I don't know how you call. So we sit all together. And there is a other story.

The story is louse. The first time I saw a louse on me. And this -- you know, I have episodes to tell you. When you would hear my episode, you don't need me to do a interview, because my episodes tells everything about me. So, the first -- I remember I made -- you know, I [indecipherable] how you call that in English?

Q: Knit? Knit?

A: How you say that?

Q: Knit? Crochet?

A: Crocheted. I crocheted. I had a back crocheted dress, along like that. And I was tired, so we lied down, it was just a floor, you know? Look at -- it's open see -- I see that, the sky, and I say, why I am here, and you know, start -- so I lie down, and I see something white is coming just over me. And I -- and I see that she comes to me. Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

And when she -- she got big. I have never seen -- that was a big louse, you know, I didn't know this is a louse. I-- when -- when the louse was already about here, I start screaming, a louse, a louse, help me, help me. So the girls get up and everybody come to kill the louse. They found the louse, they kill the louse. But I had --I saw a louse. So I can imagine that we all had a lot of louses. And that was not everything.

In the middle of the night -- so with -- wi -- we are no food, no nothing, we just -- some -- a fat Latvian was sitting outside the door to watch that -- that we don't do something. So, it was -- because, now God loved us. Because I believe in God. I --I really start very religious after that. And that -- the gi -- that Latvian was standing ou-out watching that we are. So, we -- we lied down on the floor to sleep, and my mom was very happy because two girls, she has two girl -- nobody had. There was a woman crying, my kinder, meine kinder, meine kinder, meine kinder. And Mama was very quiet and very happy because she has two children with her. So we hold together, and we -- we lay li-- on the floor, in a na -- naked floor, we made -- made -- we sleep, we have to sleep. And 12 o'clock at night is a scream, a cream, help me, help me. A baby is born in prison, between us. And -- and you know, there is -- th-the mother, you know, th-the-the girl was bor -- it was a girl. And so we have to give it a name. But she had milk, the mother had milk, so she give. And the kid was quiet, didn't -- because we were s-so afraid that she -- so we didn't have a ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010 loche(ph), so the mother gave her a finger, and she was like -- and she was doing the finger. So a -- everybody was around, a baby, a baby born. And there was blood, and everything, so everybody gave -- gave their shirts, you know, because we -- we put the -- the baby in the shirt, and wash it some kind water. We had water. It's -- that moment I will never forget. This was such a horrible time, and we -- everybody know how the Germans will never let her live, never will they -- how to how then?

What to do? And we sit in-- in a prison on the top of the prison, and here is the baby. A baby was born by a woman. We didn't know that she is pregnant or anything. And that happened, and I see the baby. Wait, I gave her a name.

Termina(ph), I gave her Termia(ph), because the name of the prison was Termia(ph). So I say, let's ta-- give that name. Okay, the mom -- and you know that's either [indecipherable] it's usually this kind of a little ceremony. In the prison, we just -- we just tried to help her. And -- but she was a good woman, and she was holding on nice. She had milk, so the baby had -- was to eat, and we was looking then that. So, I was [indecipherable], you know. I -- I went to the door, to the Latvian. I say, you know what, we need some food. Can you -- he say -- he was a good Latvian, and I speak fluent Latvian. I ask him, you know, we need food. I didn't tell about the ba -- the child. He went home, and you know what he bring us?

Not rice, be-beese(ph), beese(ph). It was dried out be-beese. Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010

Q: Beans? Beans?

A: Beese(ph).

Q: Cereal, or gr --

A: You call it beese(ph) in English?

Q: Oats, or --

A: Huh?

Q: Oats? Okay, that's all right. He brought you some food?

A: Yeah. So I took it. He gave me a -- a whole sack. So he gave that -- that --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- to all -- the baby cannot eat that.

Q: Right.

A: But we -- I gave it to everybody.

Q: Yeah.

A: Not what -- what kind of food is that? It's no food. But then that man bring us bread later. That Latvian man, he say, I know that -- what you are going through.

And we just sit in the prison. We was two weeks in this prison.

Q: Just up on the roof?

A: Now what -- on the roof, sit --

Q: The whole time? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Yeah that -- the whole time. They didn't -- they -- we -- we didn't know what jer -- what they have in their mind to do. Now, in that time, what was going on in the ghetto. In the ghetto was two killings. I was in the first killing, and these soldiers saved my life, and I sit in the prison. Now, in the ghetto, they bring us back in the ghetto yeah, but what happened? Listen. The -- the ghetto was already empty, because these people, 35,000 what I think it was, I don't know, was killed, but there was a lot of clotheses, a lot of things what -- so, th-the-the -- they -- the German officer take us, th-these 150 back in the ghetto. That will be the second action. The second action. The first action, I was in the first action, but I didn't make it to killing. But I saw all that. Now, they told everybody so -- how many -- yeah, they was bringing German Jews from Germany also, and from Denmark. And they came in also that their ghetto was empty. And we lived all together, I remember Mom, my mom was happiest, she didn't say a word, she has two children with her, she was happy. And then two other Jewish women lived in a room, we lived in a room. And we was back in the ghetto, and we know there will be a other killing just the same, a other killing. And I didn't tell my mother a word, and I think I am going to run away. I am going to run away. I am not go out -- I have saw what is going to happen to me. I don't want that. I am going to run away. And where am I going to run, what am I going to do? But I am going to run away. I was a girl, not very big, I Interview with Carolina Taitz *8 January 24, 2010

--I later grow up, but I have to be dressed like a boy, like a man. Why? Because only a group of men can go out to work. Only man they took, women did not work.

And I remember clotheses, there was millions of clotheses. I put a terrible c-coat, and a man's Russian hat, you know, with -- with fur, and I look like a boy, suppose -- with -- with the pants, supposed to look. And I was going out where people go [indecipherable] to wait til a group, to get in that group. To get in that group. And I see and one group is gone, the other group is gone, and olg -- and then the last group, I don't know, they help-helped me, and I went because they was all tall. I was -- they didn't -- see, they so -- they know what I am doing. They want say, take off the Mogen Dovid, take off the Mogen Dovid. And I have to take it off, because I am free now. I have to take it off, and I [indecipherable] still don't go, because I --I---I tried to, because it was, take off the mo -- you go [indecipherable]. And don't go on the trottoir, go in the middle, go in the middle of the street, because Jews did not -- was not a -- yeah, but when I am oj -- free, I can go by the tro -- on the trottoir. You know what is a trottoir? This is a French word. Is air -- where people go, and where horses go in the middle.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: Yeah, we can go only in the middle --

Q: Yeah. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010

A: -- when you have a Mogen Dovid. But without the Mogen Dovid, you can go on -- on like a normal person.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: So here I am, four o'clock in the morning, out of the ghetto. Good luck Lina(ph), good luck Carolina.

Q: Did you say goodbye to your mother?

A: No, she had no idea. She had no idea. She thought that I went -- they killed me. I didn't tell not my sister, not my brother. I did it absolutely on my own. All my [indecipherable] want to. Because I don't know what's going -- because anybody could she -- shoot me. But it was out, very dark, four o'clock in the morning, very dark. And here I am out of the ghetto, with the group, the working group went away. The -- the -- the -- the Latvian soldier who was taking the group didn't see me, and then when they went a -- with him, to -- to where they work, I was -- I stand in the middle of a street, what, when, where t -- where I am going to go?

Q: You're -- you're like 14 years old, or --

A: Something like that, yeah. Thirteen. And I think I am going to go to a friend. I remembered a family. I -- I didn't know, because I didn't rem -- I was so confused. I was all wet, sweat fr-from scare. [phone ringing]

End of File One Interview with Carolina Taitz *" January 24, 2010

Beginning File Two

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview with Carolina Taitz. And you were talking about how you were standing in the street all by yourself.

A: Lam standing in the middle of the street, it's four o'clock in the morning, black dark, black dark. Where I am going to go? I believe in God, because I believe that God guided me through everything. So I walk and walk and walk and walk and I am afraid something -- I look like a mess, you know? Like a -- like a fr -- like a fright. What you put in for -- for words, you know. I looked with the hat -- a big hat, and a big coat, and the pants and the shoes. That's what I took from the ghetto, it looked like a mess. And somebody could recognize me, and -- and I was scared. So I wanted to hide somewhere. So I went in a har -- in a [indecipherable] how is this in English? In -- in a [indecipherable]

Q: Ina la--in---ina--

A: There was wood, and there was -- it was like --

Q: A--a factory, or a--

A: No, no.

Q: -- train st --

A: An open place. Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

Q: No-

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay, so a big square, a big open --

A: Not a square. Th-There was houses.

Q: Yeah.

A: There was houses.

Q: Okay.

A: But there -- there --

Q: Station? Like a station, or --

A: Where -- where are pil -- children playing, usually?

Q: A--a playground.

A: It was like a playground, I would say.

Q: Yeah, okay, okay.

A: And there was wood, you know, malkas wood. So I hide behind the malkas, and I look to which door I should knock the door, to which door. There is a lot of people living. I can know, because when I will hear a German word, I run away.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because maybe that's Latvian, so maybe somebody who has a good heart, I will tell you right away, because when a person will look at me, he will see that ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010 something is wrong with. So, I decided the first door. So, I knock at the first door, and a woman comes out, and speaks Russian, kto tam, who is there? Who knock on --and I --I knocked on door, and behind th-the wood, hide again, because I didn't know. But she speak Russian, and I say, oh my God, that's good. And I know I--I speak with Russian, then I knew. I speak a lot of language as a child, about six. I'm very good at languages. I couldn't have -- I -- the only language I cannot learn is Spanish, and I don't know why. Anyway, the woman says, kto tam, who is there, who is there? But I stayed behind the wood. A very good looking elderly lady, maybe 75 or so, and she will see nobody, and I sit behind the -- the -- then I come out, and knock a second time, a second time. A man comes out, a tall man. Who is it? Kto eto, kto eto, who is it? And I run to him, and I, dyadya, dyadya, that's -- that my uncle, uncle, I am out of the ghetto. Please, can you help me? I am hungry, I want to eat something, please, please hide me. He took me inside, they gave me milk. My favorite food is milk. They [indecipherable] milk and bread, my God, I will never forget how happy I was, I eat it. And he wanted to know, what is the problem? And I told him that I run away from the ghetto. He say he is -- often goes to the ghetto, he knows where the ghetto is. He say, I know they're all killing, I know [indecipherable]. When I told him that tor -- there is my mother, my sister and my little brother live there. And meanwhile, my sister and brother was killed. Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010

They was already killed, but my -- no, I have to tell you. I don't remember that.

Anyway, he took me in, and that man saved my life.

Q: What was his name?

A: He put me in a cellar.

Q: Do you remember his name?

A: I lived in a cel -- his name is -- I have everything -- Israel gave him a -- a big title, because he saved me. I will show you, I have that outside. We will go, I will show -- I want you to see all the pictures. And he hided me two and a half years. I lived in a cellar. His mother gave me a mink coat, so I was sleeping on the mink coat. There was the whole -- not only -- I mean, he was the real who saved my life. But there was his father alive, and mother alive, and a sister. You see, the -- these plates? Take a look at these plates. She did these plates. She was a painter of porcelain, and she lived there, and -- and everybody with open hands. You can't imagine though to hide a Jewish girl. You would be dead on the [indecipherable]. But he was not afraid. He was a religious per-person. He was a-- a-- how -- he was not a [indecipherable] he was -- he was basically a Russian. He was not even Latvian, but he lived in Riga. He speak fluently Latvian too, but he spoke Russian to me.

And he say, don't worry [phone ringing] [break]

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial muse -- Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: The next time I will not take the telephone, simple.

Q: This is a continuation of the United States --

A: That will be okay?

Q: Yes.

A: I will not take it, then.

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview with Carolina Taitz. Okay, so you were talking about how --

A: So I lived in his house.

Q: Yeah.

A: As -- as --I lived in that cellar, but many times I went out to be -- because that was very cold. So I went out, I was with the family, eat with them together, and -- and you know, the portion what th-the Germans gave them was very small, and I was a eater, I was hungry. So they was worried that I have everything. They were so good to me. Then the father died. Then the mother died. And th-then something happened, and I was there, I have seen all that, the family. So Vologia(ph), that priest, he was a evangelist, what I remember that. He was a evangelist, a Christian.

Q: What was his -- what was his name?

A: His name was Vladimir. Vologia(ph). Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

Q: And his last name?

A: What?

Q: His last name?

A: Michko. I will show you, I have the pictures here. So, I lived with these people, I lived mostly in the cellar. I had plenty of time, and I am a good crocheter. He bring me old stuff from somewhere. I opened up that pullover, and made han- handkerchiefs, shawls, and something. And he went out the market and sold it. So we have three dollars, four dollars. I made money for him. At least I did something, you know. I was working, because I'm a very good crocheter, I crochet wonderful, we -- with -- with pictures, and I can do. So he t-took all these thing, the merchandise, he sold it on the flea market, and they have a little money. And the father died, and the mother died, you know. I was there. Br-Broke my heart. I have pictures, I will show you.

Q: And how did you wash yourself?

A: Huh?

Q: How did you keep clean? How did you wash yourself?

A: Normal. They did have a bathroom. I -- that -- that a -- they had -- this was -- they had a two bedroom apartment. That was -- I-- 1--I want -- I washed myself there. I was -- I was clean, they was very clean also. And then she had the problem, the ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz *deg January 24, 2010 sister. She belongs to kind of a organization, but the Germans knew about that.

They ca -- they didn't come to look ou -- you know, I sit in that cellar. He has a friend, a wood maker. He pu -- re -- cut out in the parquet a little, so I could go in, and from inside I could close that, and inside was -- I don't know how to say that in English -- so I could close that hole in which I was sitting. When I want to get out, I open that, and I was going out, because I could sometime. I do -- I --I didn't -- so one beautiful day, aufmachen -- Germans, aufmachen. They arounded the whole house. Moment -- momentarily, I was out. Momentarily I went down in that grave, in that cellar. This was a real cellar, and I closed that, and he put a table on that -- on that, with a -- with a tablecloth, a long tablecloth, so. And here they come. The only thing was, if they would come with a dog, I would be dead, because the do -- the dog would feel me. They have two dogs by themselves, and the dogs was barking on the Germans, and they couldn't stand. They was looking all over. They was looking not me, Vologia's(ph) sister, that the woman who -- the painter of the -- because she belongs to some kind of organization, the Germans have to get her. But she was -- somebody was calling her, and she went -- she was not even home. But they -- if they would come with the dog, they -- the dog would find me. But they didn't have. But we did have two dogs, Biggie(ph) and Chibby(ph). They also -- they are in my history. Biggie(ph) and Chibby(ph), they barked on that Germans, Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

the Ge-Germans couldn't stand it any more, so they left. They left. But, they took Vologia(ph) with him, you know. Twelve soldiers took him. I say, I wi-- what I'm going to do with Vologia(ph)? I am alone. The mother is dead, the father is dead, and the -- the [indecipherable] the sister is not there. I am alone in the big apartment, and I sit in--1---I was out when the Germans left, I came out, because I need air. I was -- I wanted -- I wanted to get through the window out -- out where?

Where? What? Back to the ghetto? That th-the only thing. But lucky me, Vologia(ph) came back. My God, my happiness, I jump on him and kiss him, and -- he was a elderly man, he was about 60. He was like a father to me, he didn't know what to do. He pampered me always, and he was good to me. And I want you to come and see the pictures, I want to show you. So, I was there at -- the war was finished, and I did have to get out. But I still lived with him, I still -- I didn't have place to go.

Q: Y-You stayed there til the end of the war?

A: Til the end war.

Q: And tell me about that. How did you know it was the end?

A: I don't want to talk any more. I want to show you the pictures.

Q: Well, we-we'll do that la -- I just want to finish up with you, just tell me.

A: This is the end of me. I don't want to say nothing any more. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010

Q: Well, you came to da -- you stayed in -- in -- in Latvia for how long?

A: I--I came to -- | lived in Latvia all the time.

Q: A-After the war.

A: After the war, all the time. I came to America in March "66.

Q: And what did you do between after the war --

A: ""ma actress. I finished the school meanwhile.

Q: In-in-

A: A theater school.

Q: In Latvia? You -- you --

A: In Latvia, yes.

Q: -- went -- okay.

A: I finished in Latvia. When I came out of that ghetto, I did have to go to school to finish -- I have only six classes.

Q: Yeah.

A: So I did have to have a college.

Q: Ye-Yeah.

A: And I was lucky. In Latvia was a theater school.

Q: Okay. Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: And I have the -- a very good education, especially from theater working. When I came to America, I worked 19 years for the New York City Opera.

Q: How wonderful.

A: Everything.

Q: Okay, so you stayed there. Did you ge --

A: Nice -- yeah.

Q: Did you have a family?

A: [indecipherable] somebody come from Israel and gave him [indecipherable] a medal ga-gave him, and he has -- I will -- I cannot talk, you have to see that. I want you to come. You have to stop, and I will just show you the pictures, it's very important.

Q: Yeah. [break] This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum volunteer collection interview with Carolina Taitz, and we were talking about your experience after the war was over. How did you know the war was over?

A: What did you say?

Q: How did you know that the war was over? Did Vladimir --

A: Everybody knows that, that was not --

Q: Vladimir told you? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: Everybody was talking ab -- oh my God, [indecipherable] was screaming, yelling, happiness, and dancing.

Q: And did you feel happy? What did you feel like?

A: Sure I was happy, my God. I was out, I could out. I tell you this [indecipherable] | lived -- I didn't have where to go. Then somebody came from Israel.

Q: Did you stay with Vladimir, or did you --

A: I stayed with Vologia(ph) all the time. I didn't have a -- then they find us apartment -- they from Israel -- I don't know. Also connected with the Holocaust.

They find us apartment and put three girls there, and we lived together, and we went to school, I'm telling you, I -- because I did have to finish my education.

Q: Did you go back to the house you grew up in? Did you go back?

A: They break up the house that I was in before, and I saw the -- who was living there. You know, it -- when you will take that, there was already a [indecipherable] I lived in that cellar. I showed that woman who lives there. Oh yeah?

Q: Okay. So, n-now you're going -- you're living with three other girls, and you're going to school.

A: We're all going to school --

Q: To school. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz *!

January 24, 2010

A: --and I have to -- made the speciality.

Q: Yeah, uh-huh.

A: I wanted to go to -- I always wanted to be a actress, always, all my life, because I -- when I was young, I looked exactly like Elizabeth Taylor. Just look at the picture.

Q: Right, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.

A: [have so many pictures, I look -- I worked with her, I came back -- when I get the job, she came to the theater, she say, Caroline, you look like me. She's a nice woman, but she's very sick right now.

Q: So you -- and then -- so you went to school.

A: So then I sudden -- you know, my -- I will tell you, in that time, I met my husband. How do I met my husband? My husband's name is Charles Taitz, because Taitz is his name, not mine. Charles Taitz. He was a very handsome, and very intelligent. He had two faculties, and he was a painter. He was a wonderful painter. Now -- it's okay?

Q: Yeah. Mm-hm. So you me -- how did you meet him?

A: He came -- I meet him -- I know him la -- long time. D-During the Russian, he run away with the Russians, and he lived in Almatta(ph), in -- in Russia. Now, Interview with Carolina Taitz ~ January 24, 2010

when the war was over, he found out that I am alive. He run back to Latvia, and then we get married.

Q: What year did you get married?

A: I don't remember.

Q: Okay.

A: Right -- right after the war, that was --

Q: Yeah. So you were young, you were very young.

A: I don't --I was 18, I was gir --

Q: Eighteen.

A:--a---a beautiful girl. Then, I start blooming. Then -- then was the time. So I was --as a teenager, I was ugly. I was always happy that they didn't rape me, because always they -- they wanted the young girls, raped everybody. At night they come -- at night, for -- looking for pop-popurose --

Q: Prostitutes?

A: To --to smoke.

Q: Oh.

A: They was looking for smokes, they was looking -- they took -- they confiscated.

everything at night. And they took the girls, they rape her, and then -- or they shoot her, or they let her go. Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

Q: When you were in the ghetto, and when you were in hiding, your body matured.

Did you ever start to menstruate when you were --

A: Yes, I did have that.

Q: You did have that.

A: Menstruation?

Q: Yeah.

A: Yes. I have the bladder problems til today.

Q: And how did you take care of that, when you were in the ghetto?

A: Well, they bring me something.

Q: [indecipherable] yeah.

A: Maybe was buying for me something.

Q: Yeah.

A: Very primitive, very primitive.

Q: Yeah. Mm-hm.

A: But that what happened, that was normal.

Q: Yeah.

A: Now --

Q: So you get married. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Then I get married, but I get married in my then -- you know, the Russians came back.

Q: Right.

A: If you ro -- know history.

Q: Right.

A: The Russians came back. So they called Charles, my beloved husband in a -- in the army. So, we just registered, just very much being in Almatta(ph). He was working like a movie director, doing mo -- with -- with Einstein, you know, if you know that name. He was assistant to Einstein. And he is a -- basically a movie person. We was doing movies [indecipherable] movies.

Q: Was he much older than you? Was he --

A: No, wo -- almost maybe five year -- ma -- no, he was older than that. He was older.

Q: But he was still young, he was a --

A: But we -- we was in love. It was love. No -- so when they -- when he came back to Latvia, sure we were going to get married. So she come to -- I had apartment with the three girls. The girls moved out, he come in. And --

Q: Did you have a religious marriage, or a civil marriage?

A: We -- yes, we had a religious marriage. Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010

Q: You did.

A: And then we have a Christian marriage, you know, to -- to write, to go to the --

Q: Oh, a civil marriage, you mean?

A: You have to register.

Q: Yeah, civil. Civil marriage.

A: How you call that?

Q: Civil. Civil.

A: Civil, yeah, yeah, we have to -- both of them.

Q: Yeah.

A: But you know, there was only couple of people we could make a big party. That was the Russian time. Okay, they call him back in the army, and -- and I -- I was just going to school. So I ask, where are your parents? He told me -- he say, my mom disappear, I have no idea where she is. So we leave with him very -- we loved each other, it was a love marriage. And he, being there, they send him to the army because they -- he was in Russia, in Almatta(ph). And somebody shoot him, and -- through his lungs. And he had tuberculosis, open tuberculosis. So he came back, we get married, and he was sick, very sick. And I was the only one who -- my daught -- daughter was b-born later. So, he was sick mostly, but in the Russian time, they took tremendously care of their soldiers [indecipherable] here. They gave him ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz 8 January 24, 2010 [indecipherable], they gave him room, apartment, we get a big, special -- we moved out of that apartment where I was with the girls. We have in-- in New York, we -- not -- in Riga, a three room apartment, beautiful, with all -- with everything else. Was very happy. And I was -- he couldn't work, because he was coughing and coughing, and all the time sick. So they gave us a beautiful apartment, and we could go to any sanitorium, because he was a war sh -- and they gave us money. The Russians takes very good care of the soldiers. But where is your money -- mom -- mom -- what -- what -- where is your parents? He say, I have no idea. He had a brother, and he had a sister. They was both killed in the ghetto. Because I saw her. I saw her in line. And when you are in line, you will not come out alive. One beautiful day, we get a letter from Red Cross. Are you Charles Taitz? Yes, I'm Charles Taitz. Do you had a mother? Yes, but I don't know where she is. Here is a letter from your mother. From my mother? What -- make the story short, that was the letter that Miss Amalia(ph) Taitz is looking for her children. Where are her children? And the only child is left is Charles. The only one. God, it was such a holiday. Sh-She da -- sending us packages, and we had money, we have a very comfortable --

Q: Where was she living?

A: We lived in Latvia. Interview with Carolina Taitz *" January 24, 2010

Q: No, where was she, where was the mother living?

A: In America.

Q: Oh, she went to America.

A: We didn't know that. Later we find out that she -- she had a lover. The lover was the fre -- the husband of her best friend, just like today. So she took that husband away, and come with him to America. He was a rich man, and she lived with him.

And now she start crying, where are my children? In Latvia, she know the ghetto, she knows everything. She knew that I am alive. But her two other children, th-the -- her eh -- this is -- my husband's brother was a lawyer, and she was just finished financial [indecipherable], very educated, everybody. But they was dead, so Charles was the only child. She start bombing, you have to come to America, you have to come to America. You see, I lived very well. I didn't want even to move, because I had a good job. I worked in [indecipherable] studio, | made movies. This is my -- one of my best movies.

Q: Were you an act -- you were acting?

A: What?

Q: What were you doing, acting?

A: I was doing -- you know what very much pays very well? Commercials.

Q: Oh. Interview with Carolina Taitz * January 24, 2010

A: Drink the wine, the wine is good for you. I will show some pictures.

Q: But you were -- you were acting.

A: I was acting, I was a acting actress, and I was doing in studios mostly, and they paid very good. They --

Q: But you're under communist rule?

A: What?

Q: You were under communist rule?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Was that hard?

A: It was, but I was working, you know, only ber -- we had -- we got it. Now, I don't know how to say that in English. He was a soldier --

Q: Right.

A: -- that the second group.

Q: Yeah.

A: And we lived very well because he was a -- he gets so much.

Q: Yeah, right.

A: We get the apartment, we get money.

Q: Right. Interview with Carolina Taitz ~ January 24, 2010

A: We ev -- every summer we was going thi-this [indecipherable] this sanitorium, this sanitorium.

Q: Yeah.

A: All the doctors he can have, everybody. Because the Russians will say -- I was not -- not hungry at all, I lived very well.

Q: And did you --

A: Sure, we hated the Russians.

Q: Yeah.

A: We didn't want them, but -- but they was there.

Q: Was that --

A: Now, in that meantime, I get that letter from -- from Red Cross, in that --

Q: Now, wa-wa-was there anti-se --

A: So my -- my hu -- my husband said, we go to America. I say, I'm not going, you can go. And my --I ho -- I had al-already my daughter, I was --

Q: Oh, when was your daughter born?

A: In deg47, I think.

Q: Oh. Interview with Carolina Taitz degdeg January 24, 2010

A: Yeah. And he wants to go. He hated the Russians like pests, because the communist they was -- what they was doing with other people. We was very privileged, because he was a soldier.

Q: Was there any anti-Semitism in --

A: Always. Always.

Q: Under the communists?

A: Always under the com -- a lot. Under -- under communists was always anti- Semitic, always.

Q: What --

A: The first time, and the second time, til today.

Q: And what did people say to you -- how do -- wa -- did you have any ex- experiences --

A: I didn't suffer from that.

Q: You did not?

A: No, I did not suffer from it. I had my own life, I had my husband, I had my kid, and I'm a work --

Q: So how did you know there was anti-Semitism? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz *!

January 24, 2010

A: Now how do I know? I see what happened with other people, that was are- arrested, that was sent to gulag, that was to Siberia. They do the good thing, we knew that. So, it was very difficult.

Q: Okay, so he says he wants to come to the United States.

A: She wa -- he wanted, and I don't. I had a good job, I had apartment, I had the privilege. What I am -- I don't know. And his mother hated me, because, you know, because I was a poor girl, and he married a poor girl. And he had here a millionaire old lady, and she wanted him to come here and marry that lady, to divorce me. And he -- my husband was in love with me like crazy. I o -- I don't know why I do that.

You know, he wa -- he would -- he -- he didn't want me to work, he want -- he was give me diamonds and rings and presents, and he -- he was crazy about me, too much. He loved me too much. But it was nice. And that's why I say, what I am going to go, she don't want me. I was a Yiddish kind. I was -- I was pretty, I was pretty. What do you want? What do you want? She's a poor girl. Why did you marry the poor girl? You could have -- you have such education, and you are everything. Oh, she was a bitch. She was a terrible woman, you cannot imagine.

When I came, I cried every day. She gave me very, very bad time.

Q: So what year did you get the letter from her, do you remember? Interview with Carolina Taitz % January 24, 2010

A: So, then we decided, you know, the Russian wouldn't let us go. They didn't let us go.

Q: But when did you get the letter from her, from the Red Cross, do you remember?

A: No, a while before we left. We left --

Q: In the 1960s.

A: We left in "66, in March.

Q: Yeah. So wa -- and it was just right before that --

A: It was before -- before, sure. When we get the letter -- suddenly we get the letter from the Red Cross --

Q: Right, but that --

A: -- and we found out that she is there, and she was --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- she wanted all the time that we come to America.

Q: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

A: I didn't want to go, and -- and -- and meanwhile, my husband speak me, you have to -- it will be good, and this -- I will be on your side. I say your mom don't want me, and she's that and that, and -- let's go, let's go. And then we sent in our papers to go, they didn't let us go. They didn't let us go. About 10 years old -- I think it was 10 or eight years, they didn't let us go, til we get the permission. And we had a visa Interview with Carolina Taitz "8 January 24, 2010

from Eleanora(ph) Roosevelt. She was a very famous mother. She was connection, she had elizabe -- el -- el -- yeah, thi-this president's wife.

Q: Eleanor Roosevelt.

A: Eleanor Roosevelt. She has connection.

Q: Right.

A: So she get a visa, a special visa, and we send to -- to Khrushchev, there was Khrushchev, I think so. Putin was not the other one. I don't remember that Russian. I can't stand them. And refused first time, that second time, 10 times they refused to issue. They wanted money. They wanted money, money. And I will never forget that, how my husband went to Moscow with the other person, and put on the table something -- I would -- the thing I don't know, about hundred thousand maybe, in the old, Russian money. Then, after that, it was, I think 10 years after, they let us go. At night we had the telephone call, you can go. Your -- your -- you're a--you're -- is -- is okay, they okay. So we get a visa the okay, we packed our stuff and everything, oh. It is too much to tell about that, the way we packed and who wa -- do you know what to take with you. We packed --

Q: How old was your daughter then?

A: Podroska(ph), no, how do you say -- I don't know how to say in English. A teenager. Interview with Carolina Taitz "4 January 24, 2010

Q: She was a teenager.

A: Yeah. So she didn't want to go either, because she has friends, and she's got the school, she has to finish school. And my husband said, you will go to American school, you will be different. She different, she changed so much that I couldn't recognize her. So, March -- March "66, we took the ship, and we went to America.

So, we come to America, and she expected us, and she was terrible to me. She just drank my blood. She was horrible. Now, we get apartment, we settle down.

Q: What city did you go to?

A: New York.

Q: New York.

A: We was going through Paris, through Paris. The visa was through par -- it was in Paris a whole week, and there was a Israeli general who took care of us. It was so wonderful. Anyway, we came to America, and my husband is sick with tuberculosis, open tuberculosis. And here he didn't have any privilege. He is a soldier, forget it, that is Russia. We don't have nothing. He was a private person.

We had no money, we had nothing. We had five dollars. The Russian let me have five dollars. They confiscated everything what I had, everything. That's what it is, but we, we was in America, and we thought Mother will help. She did not help us, Interview with Carolina Taitz a January 24, 2010

nothing, beca -- I helped, because I worked a lot. I get a job the New York City Opera, and worked 19 years there.

Q: What did you do there?

A: Everything. I was a stage manager. I were -- I was a makeup artist, because my schooling was the exact thing. My diploma was exactly to work in theater. When I showed them my diploma, they took me right away. Be-Because -- and besides, I was pretty. The face [indecipherable]

Q: Did you speak English?

A: Bad. Half and half, because I studied a little bit. But you know, I don't speak good now, I didn't speak then. But people understand.

Q: So you worked in the New York City Opera.

A: I was working, I loved my job. I did make-up, I did wigs, hair, because the schooling, I had all the schooling. And the languages, I speak a lot of languages.

Q: Right.

A: And there are people coming from Germany every -- I did -- I was in charge of every production, prod -- every production, to take care clotheses, costumes, everything. I loved my job, I work like a dog, it was too much. Today, I could never do that. I loved my job.

Q: So you worked there for 20 -- 20 years? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz degdeg January 24, 2010

A: Nineteen.

Q: Nineteen years.

A: Nineteen years. Then I get the disease, vertigo.

Q: Oh yes.

A: You know, vertigo is a disease that everything -- til today.

Q: Yeah.

A: And I was doing the show with Beverly Sills, I was doing this show. I will tell you which one. She was crazy -- what is that wi -- the show? Oh God.

Q: Lucia?

A: Lucia la -- di Lammermoor, exactly. You know, she gets crazy late. And I was doing the work, my director stays right there, and I do a beautiful job, that we got ready [indecipherable], and I do. And I fall over her. I fall over her. This is the first time when I get it. My director gave me 10 dollars, and said, go to the hospital right away. And I went to the hospital, the doctor said, you know, you have a terrible disease. And since then, I did have to left my job, after 19 years of work.

Q: And so then what did you do?

A: ""m very touch -- nothing. Here I am.

Q: Yeah.

A: I lived in New York. My husband died. I mean, well -- Interview with Carolina Taitz *" January 24, 2010

Q: When -- when did he die?

A: Tuberculosis.

Q: No, when?

A: In the 70s, some --

Q: In the 1970s.

A: I think in the se -- or before it.

Q: Yeah.

A: He -- he -- he was very, very sick, I couldn't work at all. I was the breadwinner in the hou -- and my girl was in school.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: She finished th-the -- the --

Q: She went to high school.

A: High school, and [indecipherable]. She was working here. I hate this place, but she took this place, because it's -- she was working Voice of America. That was close, so she put it here, and this is a residential section [indecipherable].

Q: So you -- you -- you stayed in New York afterward.

A: I stayed in New York.

Q: In New York.

A: And I met the other man. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Carolina Taitz deg8 January 24, 2010

Q: And you got married again?

A: And I married the other man, he was not Jewish.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: And he was a wonderful person. He wanted to became Jewish. He told me, I want to became, what should I do?

Q: Yeah.

A: And I went to my rabbi, and I say, what should I do, my other husband is not Jewish, my first one was. And what -- he wants to become a Jew. What I have to do? Because when he was a baby, he was already in the hospital, they cut him the pupy(ph), what has to be cut.

Q: Right, right.

A: That's when it was done. Now, he have to learn. Then everybody say, you know what, leave him alone. Let him be what he is. As long as he good to you, that's all what count. He was wonderful to me.

Q: Wa -- good.

A: And he also died, not long time ago, 10 years ago, about. Nine. He had a daughter from his first marriage. He went to visit his daughter, just to visit her, and there he died. He had a heart attack. A wonderful -- let me show you the pictures.

Q: So you came down here to watch -- Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Then I was there. I was very sick. I had two implants in my both hips, two implants in my shoulder, and I lived on the fourth floor, where there was no elevator. So, for me was difficult to get --

Q: Where did you live in New York?

A: In Manhattan.

Q: Manhattan?

A: Yeah, I had the wonderful apartment on the fourth floor, without elevator. So, I did have to get up, and after four implants, I couldn't do it. So my daughter say, you know what, come to our house.

Q: Yeah.

A: But I don't live in her house. She put me up here in that place.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: Because who needs it, a old and a sick mother, tell me. And here we are.

Q: Yeah. Can you tell me -- you said before that you became more religious because of the war --

A: I--I became religious when I was in Vologia's(ph) house. Then I become, because --

Q: Because --

A: -- everything what happened to me -- Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

Q: Yeah.

A: -- was at God's hand. He guided me -- til today, he gui --I am here just for a reason. I believe that. Everything goes like that, and He is with me all the time, and I don't die. And -- and I supposed to be done -- dead long time ago they -- but I don't. And I am really sick. And my brain is not -- pretty good, I must say. It's not very good, but it is --

Q: How did you find out about your mother? How did you find out --

A: The letter we -- from the Red Cross wa --

Q: No, no, no, your mother, your mother. How did you find out that --

A: My moth -- my mother was in Auschwitz. She was verschleppt in Auschwitz.

Q: How did you find that out? How did you know --

A: I don't re --

Q: How did you know that?

A: Somebody tells that she's there.

Q: Somebody told you that.

A: [have -- somebody tol -- I cannot remember that.

Q: Okay. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: But I know that she was in Auschwitz. Then a friend of us, a--a Russians sol- soldier went to Auschwitz and took her out and bring her back to Latvia. How he did it, I have no idea. The person is dead.

Q: So she got back to -- to latv --

A: Yeah, she came back after Auschwitz, and tell all the stories. Mom, I say, how did you -- because, you know --

Q: So you saw your mother after the war?

A: Yeah. I did see her.

Q: Oh.

A: But she was half -- half alive. She told me -- I say, Mom, how did you survive?

There were gas -- they was gassing these women. Then they told me the story. She was already -- the whole group of the huma -- women did undress naked, and they went in, and -- and now they will gas them. And the gas didn't work. The gas didn't work. So the Germans took and, put up your clothes and said, go back to the barracks. And that's the way that she survived.

Q: And wa -- and what about --

A: [have a picture of her.

Q: Right. What about your sister? Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: No, sh-sh-she was in the -- because, you know, when I ran away, I don't know what happened.

Q: Right.

A: They were going -- they was working by the Germans.

Q: Right.

A: [have no i-- one, they send the mom -- my mom to -- ah, my -- my sis -- sister was in Stutthof. They took my sister in Stutthof. Also, that -- that's what people told me. And she was in Majdanek. No, in Auschwitz, my mom. But that good person took her out and bring her home. But she lived a short time. She was all broken, you know, morally and physically. What do you want, I mean, that was a terrible time.

Q: Do you think about your experiences a lot now?

A: What?

Q: Do you think about your experience?

A: Ah-my---I-

Q: All the time, or --

A: I see my mother in my dreams, very often. I didn't -- my father --1--I was my father's girl, I love my father m-more. But I don't see him so mu --

Q: Yeah. Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: I see my little brother, and I se -- and see my mother a lot.

Q: Yeah.

A: And Germans. And I run from them, in my dream, you know. And then I wake up all sweaty.

Q: Yeah. Are you more comfortable around other survivors?

A: No. Not at all.

Q: Do you prefer to be with --

A: [like -- what I like now is to be alone. And you know, the people here don't like that, they want me to may -- mingle. I don't like that. I like to read, I like to be alone and read. That relaxes me. I even -- didn't even watch television. I don't like television. I have television, I don't watch it. I like to be alone. I like it, and -- and -- and it -- then I do -- because I have so much -- I have to clean it up, you know, I have to clean it up. So I monkey around in my apartment. But I am happy somebody comes in and talks to me. I have people -- the -- the Holocaust sent a volunteer to me, and we became tremendously close friends. Maybe you know her. Her name is Javeh(ph) -- Eva(ph) Conantier(ph), or something like that. Beautiful, gorgeous woman, I love her to death. She is so good to me, like she would be my daughter.

Eva(ph) Conantier(ph). Here is her address. I cannot even remember her name.

Q: Well, that's okay. Interview with Carolina Taitz (tm) January 24, 2010

A: Can you read that?

Q: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the right name, Eva(ph) Conantier(ph), yeah.

A: I want to repeat her name --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- because I want them to be in -- in the writing.

Q: Yeah. That's very nice, yeah, yeah.

A: I am blind, I cannot see.

Q: Do you think the Holocaust could happen again?

A: Courentier(ph). Eva(ph) Courentier(ph).

Q: Right. Do you think the Holocaust could happen again?

A: My -- my pre -- when my priest died, I was hysterical.

Q: Your priest?

A: He die -- I was already here. And I wanted to -- America didn't give me a reason.

Q: Ah--- y-you -- when you say your priest --

A: He died.

Q: Wh-Which priest was this?

A: This is the priest, Vladimir Michko, who saved my life.

Q: Oh, oh, oh, when vladim -- oh, I see, yeah. And you wanted to go over to his -- yeah. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz ~ January 24, 2010

A: I wanted, yeah, there no way.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because you know, I did have to wait til the five years to get a visa and everything.

Q: Yeah, right. Are -- you're a citizen of the United States?

A: Lam, yeah, sure.

Q: How did you feel, becoming a citizen?

A: Nothing. America is not any more the America. When I came, in 66, that was America.

Q: What did America --

A: It was rich, and everything was -- the president was Reagan, my love of my life.

Everything was so easy. Right now, in this America, this is cuc -- Russia. Right now I live the way I lived in Russia. Everything is not -- you have no service, you have nothing.

Q: Yeah. But you were -- when you came to the United States in 1966 --

A: I came but not willingly.

Q: No, I know. But it meant -- Russia men -- U-United States meant freedom to you, or -- Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: Freedom, freedom, absolutely freedom. That what I like about America, the freedom. It's too much. Too much freedom. But I --I didn't want to come, I--I lived there wonderful. I had a good job, I was doing movies. This is not the only one. I did se-seven movies.

Q: You acted in the movies?

A: Acting, yeah, acting, I was -- because I -- my -- my diploma is acting.

Q: I see.

A: lama actress. But I am very talented, I can do with my hands everything. And they want it in the theater, I was very useful.

Q: Yes, yeah, yeah. Do you think that the Holocaust could happen again?

A: It could, I don't know. Because the Germans wats -- also, I was not in Germany, but my friend went to Germany, and when she came back he told -- she told me she would never leave there. Because, you know, the Germans don't pay me any money.

Q: I was going to ask you that.

A: Yeah.

Q: They don't pay you?

A: No, no, not a dime. Why? Because I was in hiding. I get from them a letter, that because you was in hiding, why was you in hiding, he say, because you was in Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

hiding more than you was in ghetto. That was a--I had a letter. I say, why did I was in hiding, what do you think, I -- I was dancing there? Don't you know why I hide?

Must be a reason that I run away. Oh, you run away from the ghetto. You didn't have to be in ghetto so -- as long as we tell you. Can you believe that mishegasen(ph)?

Q: How would you describe yourself? Would you say you're Latvian, you're Jewish?

A: No, I am Latvian, hundred percent.

Q: Yeah.

A: A Latvian jewel. I am a Latvian Jew.

Q: Uh-huh. But you feel very Latvian.

A: I fe-feel very -- but I am really Jewish. I love everything Jewish. If I would have to choose which national-ality I want, I want to be Jewish.

Q: Yeah. Have you ever been to Israel?

A: Yes, I was here the last holidays. Eva(ph), she took me there, and I like everything. I like the Jewish [indecipherable] I like the -- they have such beautiful thing. And I like the Mamaloshen. The Mamaloshen is fantastic, because I like Sholem Aleichem. | read all his books. And I -- when -- when I talk, I talk -- use a Interview with Carolina Taitz (tm) January 24, 2010

lot of Jewish words in my conversation. Now what can I tell you? Now is the end of me. I don't know when I am going to die, but I am as much to death.

Q: Do you have any grandchildren?

A: Lam not -- I am not pessimistic, I know, I am realistic, because 80 years is a lot.

This is the end. And I keep living and living. But you see, God is my friend, he don't want me.

Q: Do you have any grandchildren?

A: They are bad. They don't have to do with me nothing, they don't come see me.

Q: But -- but you do have grandchildren?

A: Lhave, so what? I don't know who they are. I mean, I know when they was babies, they was on my lap. I know them very well, and I love, really love them, but I-- they don't come visit me.

Q: How many do you have?

A: Two. Two boys.

Q: Two boys, yeah, yeah.

A: Maybe a girl would be different, I don't know. I love them anyway.

Q: Yeah.

A: You know, they have their own life. Young people live their own life.

Q: Right, right. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Carolina Taitz " January 24, 2010

A: What are they going to call grandma, big deal.

Q: Yeah.

A: But that's okay.

Q: Yeah.

A: I live them -- I love them in my heart.

Q: Do you have any message for them about life, and --

A: Aviva(ph) goes to them, sure, my daughter goes to them, she sees them. And so I say, give my love to David, give my love to Eric(ph).

Q: Yeah.

A: They have their own life. Who needs their old grandmother.

Q: Do you still keep in touch with people in Latvia?

A: Yes, yeah. I-- they write me, they send me --

Q: The friends?

A: Yeah, I will give you cookies.

Q: That's okay.

A: They send me cookies.

Q: Are they -- are they la -- Jews, are they --

A: They are very devoted, very devoted.

Q: -- ar-are they Latvian Jews, or Christians? Are they Latvian Jews? Interview with Carolina Taitz .deg January 24, 2010

A: I don't know if they are Jews, bu -- try that, you" ll love it.

Q: Okay, thank you. Yeah. So you do still keep in touch?

A: All the time.

Q: Yeah.

A: And I'm very much in touch with my theater, here.

Q: In New York. In New York.

A: In New York. They write to me letters, and they call me, you know, my -- they almost -- shoot, shoot, shoot, they close the whole thing. Then come out a millionaire, Mr. Koch gave them a hundred million dollars, and they live again.

Q: I know, it's true.

A: [indecipherable] But what happened when I was -- when I left, terrible.

Q: Yeah.

A: They wanted to close my theater.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because you know, when I worked there, I worked so long, that it was mine, my personal --

Q: Yeah.

A: It could be Carolina Taitz's theater.

Q: Yeah, yeah, wonderful. Interview with Carolina Taitz ia January 24, 2010

A: Yet I don't have a hundred million. I cannot believe that people has such amount of money. He didn't give his last dime. You know the story.

Q: Right. Well, is there -- is there anything you wanted to add before we close?

A: What, darling?

Q: Is there anything else you wanted to say?

A: About what?

Q: Well, about your experience, what you went through.

A: [have a [indecipherable] big experience. And I have episodes from my -- like the louse.

Q: Yeah.

A: Then the puppe. You have not -- I --I am telling you, I cannot talk so much, but I have episodes from my life. The name -- and David, my friend, is mad because I didn't have to write a book. I have to write a book, because that's what I have seen with my old eyes. Everybody's dead, and I am still alive. People -- I say, who is going to read my book? I do not write. I don't want to. He did -- he li -- he lives in New York, he comes and visits me, and he is a writer, David Silberman(ph). Try it.

Q: Well, thank you very much for doing this interview.

A: It isn't at all what I told you? Interview with Carolina Taitz ia January 24, 2010

Q: What?

A: I mean, more or less --

Q: Is there anything -- is there anything el --

A: -- this is what happened.

Q: Yeah. Is there anything else you wan --

A: That I think that my episodes, what I personally was going through, is more important. I can [indecipherable] tell, like, I have a story about the doll.

Q: What's that story?

A: The d--- the doll. The doll is a puppe in German. A puppe is a doll, you know a doll. This is a story, the louse is a story.

Q: Right.

A: What isn't a story? I have so many episodes what happened to me.

Q: Right.

A: Yeah.

Q: What's the doll story?

A: Then -- yeah, I need time for that, I'm not going to tell it now.

Q: Oh.

A: Then, the potato. How -- this is a story.

Q: Right, right. Interview with Carolina Taitz ia January 24, 2010

A: How I came, how he hit me, and was --

Q: Right, right.

A: And this would be in my book.

Q: I see.

A: I didn't write. Eat it.

Q: Okay. Well, thank you very much for doing this interview. This concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum --

A: This is the real story.

Q: -- volunteer collection interview with Carolina Taitz.

End of File Two Conclusion of Interview