Document

ALICE TYROLER May 8, 2013 Beginning File One

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Mrs.

Alice Tyroler -- how do I say your last name?

A: Tyroler.

Q: Tyroler -- on May 8", 2013, in Queens, New York. Thank you. Thank you

finally for agreeing to share your story, share your experiences. I know that it's not a

--an easy or very pleasant thing to do, but we really appreciate it. And I want to start

our interview wi -- at the beginning. I'd like to ask you when you were born, where

you were born; that is, your date of birth, your mother and father's names, and if you

had any siblings, tell me about their names and where in the family order you were,

whether you were the youngest, or the oldest, and so on.

A: It will be quite simple, because my parents were both only children. So my name

is Alice Tyroler, I was born on December 23", 1926 in Bratislava, which was at

this time, Czechoslovakia. And my father's name was call -- Colemon(ph), or

Calmen(ph).

Q: Calmen(ph).

A: Isela.(ph)

Q: Isela(ph).

A: Isela(ph). And my mother's name was Anna Isela(ph), kay -- born Fisher.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record.

Interview with Alice Tyroler :

May 8, 2013

Q: Uh-huh, she -- her maiden name was Fisher.

A: Her maiden name was Fisher, yeah. And --

Q: And your maiden name was Isela(ph).

A: Isela(ph), yeah. And --

Q: Did you have brothers and sisters?

A: [had one brother, by the name of Korp(ph). He was born on -- was born on

January -- oh, I forgot now. I think it was the 12", 1924.

Q: So he was older?

A: Yes, about three years.

Q: Okay. And tell me a little bit about your family life. What was your father's

profession? How did he keep the family --

A: My father -- my father had a store in Bratislava, which was -- imported material

for suit and men's and ladies" clothing --

Q: Textiles, uh-huh.

A: -- he imported textile. He imported material from eng -- England and also

Scotland, and also from Czechoslovakia, was bought from Berlin and sent to

various factories.

Q: And did -- was he a textile merchant, or was he somebody who actually pre --

made the suits of clothes?

A: No, he wasn't that, he was importing it and selling it.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 5

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay, and others made the suits.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: They were tailors and the client would come and buy the material, or call my

father up and said, Herr Isela(ph), I need a suit for this [indecipherable] occasion,

because he knew him already. And so he would pick and show it to the person, and

sometimes recommend a tailor.

Q: Okay. Did you ever work in the store --

A: No.

Q: -- or did you visit in the store?

A: Oh yeah, I--

Q: Yeah?

A: -- we visited as children, but I was too young at the time --

Q: I see.

A: -- to work in there.

Q: What kind of a place was it, the store?

A: The store is still existing today. They now sell some china in the store. It's in the

old city of Bratislava, and it's in the middle of the city, it was a very nice area.

Q: Was it something your father bought, or had it been something that had already

been established before him?

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record.

Interview with Alice Tyroler deg

May 8, 2013

A: It had been established, and he bought it from his boss, where he started learning

the business.

Q: I see, okay. And what was the name of the store?

A: The name of the store is stoffhandlung, not-nothing special. [indecipherable]

Q: Was it called Isela(ph)?

A: They called it a stoffhandlung, what stoffhandlung is --

Q: Well, textiles.

A: Textile -- textile store.

Q: Okay, so he didn't have like his family name on there.

A: [really don't think so.

Q: Okay.

A: But he was known there, because it was many, many years over there.

Q: And -- excuse me -- tell me a little bit about your mother.

A: My mother was born in Vienna, and she was in the fashion business. She has

learned it, and when she came over to Bratislava, her mother stayed in Vienna and

kept the store. It was a store also in fashion. My grandmother had the store, yeah.

Q: And --

A: Her father died very early. He had studied [indecipherable] University, but he

died very early, died in his early 40s.

Q: That's your grandfather, mm-hm.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. a

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Yeah, he died in his early 40s.

Q: Did you -- did you know your grandparents?

A: [knew my grandmother, the one from Vienna.

Q: I see.

A: My father's parents were no longer alive when I was born.

Q: I see. What was your language at home? What language did you speak with one

another?

A: German.

Q: And did you ever speak Yiddish, or was that just not part --

A: No.

Q: Okay.

A: No, it was not.

Q: Okay. Were --

A: But I did learn later on in life, in France.

Q: Yeah. Were your parents, would you say they were assimilated into --

A: No, they were -- they were Jewish. They were -- it was called neologen, which is

something like conservative here.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: So they belong -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 8

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: We had the kosher home.

Q: Okay.

A: And because both of my parents worked, we had the nanny. And the nanny --

Q: Took care of --

A: -- was there to take care of us, yeah.

Q: Was she -- she -- was she a local person?

A: She was from Sudeten-Deutschland, I don't know.

Q: So she was German?

A: She was German, and Roman Catholic. Very religious person, and very nice

person.

Q: Was she someone you were very close to?

A: Yes, we were very close to her.

Q: And were you close also to your parents?

A: Very much so, yes.

Q: Di--- was there one that you felt a little bit closer to than the other?

A: Not really.

Q: Okay. What were their personalities like, your mother and your father?

A: I think they were very nice people.

Q: Were they extroverts? Were they shy?

A: No.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record.

Interview with Alice Tyroler deg

May 8, 2013

Q: Were they sociable?

A: Yeah, very sociable, they had lots of friends. And -- but, for example, the store

was closed on Saturday, but they reopened at night. So the Saturday was spent at

home, and then they would go to a cafe house, I don't know what you call it.

Q: A coffeehouse. A coffee house.

A: A coffeehouse with -- meet with friends and pay the next day. So they were --

Q: So this way they would enjoy their Sabbath --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- but they did not break any rules.

A: No, no.

Q: Okay.

A: That was a kosher home and we went to the Orthodox temple because my father

liked the place better.

Q: Did you go regularly?

A: [indecipherable] didn't go, but he went more, specially for the high holidays,

and usually during a regular year, there were local little places where one went to

pray on Friday night, or -- so he took us with him.

Q: Tell me, did you speak Slovak at all?

A: Yeah, a little bit, but --

Q: A little bit.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 10

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: --I'm fluent, of course, but we did not use it at home.

Q: What was the -- what was the social situation like in Bratislava between the

wars? Did people interact with those -- let's say, did you have associates of friends

who were not Jewish, apart from the nanny, or were --

A: Oh, of course.

Q: Ah, okay, okay.

A: I went to a -- the first school, the first five years, I went into the so-called

Neologen Schule, which was the conservative school, where boys and girls went

together to school, and from there on I went into the German gymnasium.

Q: Oh, these were public schools, or was the first one a religious school?

A: No those were religious school, but -- yeah.

Q: But the German gymnasium was a public school?

A: Public? I don't know what you call a public school.

Q: Something where a --

A: Yes.

Q: --a school where children of various backgrounds --

A: Yes, yes.

Q: -- whether they were -- yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: And sponsored by the state, basically. That's what it is.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 11

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Probably, yeah.

Q: Yeah. And did your parents socialize with people who weren't Jewish, who were

A: Yeah, they had friends.

Q: Okay.

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. Did -- oh --

A: I went -- by the age of 12, I was about 12, it was in 1938 when Hitler came to

Vienna. My mother picked my old grandmother up and brought her over to us.

Q: We'll come to that. I want to fill -- still ask --

A: Sorry.

Q: It's okay. I still want to ask a few questions.

A: You can erase it or something.

Q: No, no, no, this is fine. I want to ask you a little bit about your brother.

A: Okay.

Q: What -- he was a few years older.

A: Three years older.

Q: Three years older.

A: Yeah.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 12

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And what kind of a person was he? Was he somebody who played with you as a

little sister, or did he try to -- was he a boy who just didn't find girls interesting?

A: We were most of -- yeah, we were quite close, and he was a very good reader, and

he was in charge of my -- my mother told him, you tell her what to read, and --

Q: Oh really? Yeah --

A: --I can read -- I could read what I read, yeah. He was very generous, so --

Q: Was he a studious person?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay. What were some of his interests as a child?

A: He has various interests, mostly -- most of the things are read -- reading. He also

went to the German gymnasium, of course, earlier than I did, so he went longer. And

I stayed only til the second grade, then I -- they wouldn't let me come any more

because I was Jewish.

Q: Yeah.

A: So, I went one year into another gymnasium, which was teaching not -- there was

not German, it was mixture between Czech and Slovak. And there I was a year.

Q: I forgot to ask, did you speak Slovak at home? I mean, Czech at home as well?

Did you know Czech?

A: No.

Q: No, just Slovak.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 13

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: No.

Q: Okay.

A: Just German.

Q: Yeah. And -- but did you know the Czech language?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. Is it very different from Slovak?

A: Yeah, Czech is more like closer to the Polish language, and Slovak more to the

Russian. It -- it's a little different.

Q: Uh-huh. Did you speak any other languages?

A: Yes, we spoke French. We had the private tutor at home. And at this time,

unfortunately, wasn't English that he taught us, but it was French. And she was there

from, I think when I was -- we started when we were seven years old, I was seven.

My brother already had started earlier, and I only had to, for a few years, because

couldn't go on.

Q: Tell me, was your family well-to-do? Would you have considered them a well-to

A: Middle class.

Q: Pardon?

A: Middle class.

Q: Middle class.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 14

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Middle class, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: They were not rich, but comfortable.

Q: Did you have -- by comfortable, did your parents, for example, own a car?

A: No, they did not.

Q: Okay. Did they have a radio?

A: Oh yes.

Q: Okay.

A: More than one.

Q: Yeah?

A: Yeah, that -- but we spent Saturday night --

Q: Listening to the --

A: -- in the dark --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- detective stories.

Q: Ooh.

A: Yeah, it was dark, and it was very exciting.

Q: And you'd listen to the detective stories on the radio?

A: Yes, I [indecipherable] The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 15

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Well, tell me about some of your memories ah -- if you have an earliest memory.

Do you have an earliest memory from your childhood?

A: Oh, I have the very pleasant memories until a certain time, and then we had to

watch when we went out to school.

Q: Yeah, we're gonna get there.

A: Because it was difficult.

Q: Yeah, we'll -- we'll -- oh, I lost my train of thought for a minute.

A: You'll find it.

Q: Who are some of your friends from school?

A: Mixed.

Q: Cl -- anybody particu --

A: --in the beginning --

Q: Yeah?

A: --in the beginning, in the -- the first five years, they were mostly Jewish children,

because we went to a Jewish school. Later on it was mixed.

Q: Okay. Did you have a best friend?

A: I more than one. I don't know exactly.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 16

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And how were you as -- growing up? Were you a quiet girl, or were you more

outgoing? Did you like playing, tomboy, or more studious and quiet?

A: I think it was more quiet, and I like to read, and jump rope, and we started very

early with swimming. I don't know if you know that, but in Europe the sport that we

had was gymnastic, and swimming.

Q: Much more -- mu -- much more emphasis on individual sports, rather than team

sports?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. When y --

A: Gymnastic, yeah.

Q: Yeah. When you were still a child, before the war, was there discussion of anti-

Semitism? Did you feel it? Was it something that was in the air? Was it something

you experienced --

A: Not before I was 10.

Q: Okay.

A: I don't remember before I was 10, no.

Q: Okay. But after 10? That would have been in 1936. Did you sta --

A: We heard the radio, sure.

Q: You heard about it?

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 17

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: We heard about it, yeah, they talked the radio about it, what's going on in

Germany [indecipherable]

Q: Okay. Okay, so what's going on in Germany, but not necessarily in Slovakia?

A: There was nothing going on over here.

Q: Okay.

A: We're just fine.

Q: But did people -- people who were Gentile, did they -- were there -- were there

normal relations, or did you ever hear or experience where people talked about some

kids who would say things, or -- or grownups who would be prejudiced, or so --

A: Not -- not before --

Q: Okay.

A: -- when everything turned around.

Q: All right. Well, so, I've held off til now --

A: Right.

Q: -- but let's -- yeah --

A: Right.

Q: -- let's -- let's go there, let's go to that part.

A: Okay.

Q: You mentioned earlier that -- that in 1938, your mother brought your grandmother

from Vienna to Bratislava.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 18

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Yes.

Q: Why?

A: Because Hitler occupied Vienna.

Q: How -- what happened -- what happened to her? How did that affect her? Was her

store closed, was it --

A: Well, she obviou -- she must have locked the door and walked away.

Q: Okay.

A: My mother took her over to us, and she stayed with us.

Q: Did she talk about what it wa -- had been like in Vienna when he annexed

Austria?

A: She was before already, back and forth, it's very close.

Q: Yeah.

A: I don't know if you know, it's just across the Danube. And -- but the final

holding was in "38, I think.

Q: So, in those years, from "36 onwards, you started hearing about what was going

on in Germany. How did -- was this discussed at home?

A: We also -- yeah, we also saw already things change in -- in Slovakia.

Q: In what way?

A: In deg38, there were already Hitlerjugend, there was Bund Deutsche Madchen

about th -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 19

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: In czech -- in czecho -- in Slovakia.

A: Yeah, in Bratislava, yeah. And they didn't like us. They insulted us. We didn't

take it as an insult.

Q: How did the --

A: We were proud of it.

Q: How did this express itself? Did they come to the store, did they not --

A: No, not to -- not as far as I know, not to the store or anything. But what happened,

for example, we were in the Zionistic organizations, and when you had to go home

at night, you had to watch out.

Q: Were you scared?

A: My brother -- my brother came home with bloody nose [indecipherable]

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: Were you ever confronted on the streets?

A: Yes.

Q: Many times?

A: No, not too many time, about --

Q: Can you tell us a little bit about that, if you remember.

A: They were most -- mostly tr -- calling names and insulting, and there was the

Bund Deutsche Madchen, and [indecipherable] The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 20

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: So you -- so you would walk by, and somebody would see you, and they would

call out something?

A: Yeah, and this -- and I didn't go out at night at this time. We didn't -- I mean, the

girls didn't [indecipherable] didn't go out by it -- herself.

Q: And your -- when you came home, would you tell your parents about what was

going on, what you had experienced?

A: Not if I didn't have to.

Q: And reason why?

A: Wasn't pleasant. Why make them unhappy as in -- they were already?

Q: So in some way you were protecting them?

A: I don't know, I mean --

Q: Uh-huh. What were the discussions at home about all these changes?

A: For example, at a certain time, we started -- there was a swimming club. They

started it -- I started it, I think I was seven, to train real -- a real thing, and it was

called Bakhovka(ph). They still -- we are still in contact with some of the people

who still alive. And so we could do it til after a certain [indecipherable] I don't

know the date.

Q: That's okay.

A: [have no idea about the date.

Q: That's okay.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 21

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Gymnastic was private also. Also ended because we had other things on -- on our

mind.

Q: Okay.

A: So-

Q: So, I mean, the swimming club is something you were forced to leave, or your

parents decided it was too risky?

A: I don't know, I think they stopped it.

Q: Okay.

A: [really don't know. I haven't thought of those things in about 80 years, so -- or 75

years.

Q: Yeah.

A: That's a long time.

Q: Yeah. Did you notice that -- if your parents were more nervous than they had been

before?

A: It was very unpleasant.

Q: I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of is whether or not what was going in the

outside world, affected the world within the private world of the family?

A: For example, one thing that I remember very clearly, that my father had his best

friend, who had a large store with oriental rugs across the street, and he lived across

the street from us, and one day when he left the house, our house, to go home at The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 22

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

night, a group of men attacked him. There was a -- like a tramway(ph) -- I don't

know the --

Q: Mm-hm, a trolley car.

A: Trolley car. And they beat him, and we s -- we saw it from the window, and

couldn't do anything. This is something that I remember.

Q: What was the name of his store?

A: Brishla(ph).

Q: Brishla(ph).

A: Brishla(ph).

Q: Tippihandlu(ph)?

A: Tippihan -- Tippihandlu(ph) Brishla(ph), yeah.

Q: Tippihandlu(ph) Brishla(ph). And what street was it on? Because if it was

across the street from yours --

A: I think it was Durament(ph), I'm not --

Q: Durament?

A: Yeah.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: I'm not quite sure. We had to leave before -- on [indecipherable] where we grew

up, up to about -- when I was about 10, there we had the second floor of an house.

Q: Was it an apartment?

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 23

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: It was an apartment which had the [indecipherable] was known as horseshoe.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: Yeah.

Q: And was it a large place?

A: [indecipherable] Think it was six or seven rooms.

Q: That's pretty spacious.

A: Was a bedroom, children's room, dining room [inaudible] like a --

Q: Master bedroom.

A: [indecipherable] no.

Q: Oh.

A: Like a li-

Q: A library.

A: -- something, it was --

Q: Den, yeah?

A: Something like this, it was [indecipherable] mostly for the man, you know.

Q: Uh-huh. Herrenzimmer, yeah.

A: Yeah, with books and -- and everything. And then was a guest room, when

somebody came. I think was ne -- before, next to the children's room was Nanny's

room, Nanny's room.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 24

Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Did your mother have any other, or did your family have any other help at home

besides the nanny?

A: Yes.

Q: Was there a housekeeper?

A: There was a cook, and a maid.

Q: Okay.

A: They lived in the house.

Q: Okay. How -- did relation --

A: And they had -- they had -- no, they were not Jewish. About -- when we had

Hanukah, they had in their room a Christmas day. My mother made sure of that, yes.

Q: That's very nice.

A: So they can --

Q: Celebrate --

A: -- celebrate their holidays, yes.

Q: Yeah. As these changes were going on, for the worse, did things change?

A: They had to leave, sure.

Q: They had to leave.

A: My mother was not allowed to have.

Q: Okay. Did your nanny have to leave as well?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: She had to leave, but she left only officially. She took an apartment somewhere

not far away, but she spent the days with us anyway.

Q: So her attitude, and her relations didn't change with -- for you?

A: Oh, no.

Q: Okay, okay.

A: Oh no. You will hear towards the end, what happened.

Q: Okay, okay.

A: She saved my mother and my brother in her apartment with her sister, during the

whole time.

Q: Oh my.

A: And she knew if they caught her, she will be shot with them, okay?

Q: Okay, okay.

A: So -- but it was in -- that was already in 1945. So she was all the years with us.

Q: That's am -- that's amazing.

A: Yeah.

Q: That's amazing.

A: She was like an aunt.

Q: Yeah.

A: She was no employee.

Q: Yeah. Tell me what -- how things developed further, as the 30s come to a close.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: As "30 comes to a close, we had to move to another apartment again, because this

was no longer available for -- for Jews.

Q: So -- oh, so it was a rented apartment?

A: It was always -- we only had the apartment, we did not own a house.

Q: Okay, okay. And did you have to move to a different neighborhood?

A: Well, not a bad neighborhood, but a different neighborhood, yeah.

Q: And it's at this point that your nanny no longer stayed with you? That is --

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah, okay.

A: But she was there always.

Q: Do you remember the date that Hitler annexed Czechoslovakia?

A: No.

Q: Okay.

A: No.

Q: I believe it was in 1939. I think it was March, but I'm not sure.

A: I'm not sure of that.

Q: Okay. But how did that ki -- how did that resonate in Bratislava, when that

happened?

A: The Slovaks were different from the Czechs.

Q: Okay.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: The Czechs stayed against the German. The Slovaks greeted them with pleasure.

Q: Why?

A: The president of Slovakia was a Catholic priest, who was very happy and

cooperative with -- with the Germans.

Q: How do you explain that?

A: [have no idea.

Q: It's so diametrically different.

A: [have no -- yes, yes.

Q: How did this -- how was this experienced on a personal level?

A: Very unpleasant.

Q: Did -- what happened to your father's business?

A: My father's business was arizeered(ph)?

Q: Aryanized.

A: I don't know, I don't know.

Q: Ar-Aryanized, yes.

A: Aryanized, yes? I don't know exactly when and how, I just don't remember.

Q: Do you remem --

A: It was not important enough for me.

Q: Yeah. Was there a change in him?

A: I don't think so. He was a born optimist.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Was he?

A: Yeah.

Q: What would he say when things like this would happen?

A: It won't last long. He did not want to leave Bratislava because he said, these

people are all my friends, they're not going to do anything to me. And it was very

surprising.

Q: Well, tell me about some of that.

A: I don't know exactly the time, but they came to -- they came to get me once for

the first time for it, but I was ill. I had a infectious disease, so they didn't come in.

So if -- they came a second time. They took me and my mother and took us to -- to

the police. And from then on, to Novaky, to the camp.

Q: Had -- had Czechos -- had Slovakia already declared its independence?

A: I don't know how it worked. I really don't know how it worked.

Q: Okay. Do you remember --

A: I wasn't interested.

Q: Of course.

A: I don't know if you understand what I mean.

Q: Oh yeah.

A: It was, who cared? And they were willing to sell us, supposedly was the only

head of the state supposedly, I don't know if it's true. That's what I heard. Then Dr.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Tiso, the president, paid for each Jew that was deported, he paid the Germans to take

them.

Q: What a -- what a betrayal. Do you remember how those guards looked when they

came to get you?

A: They were Slovaks, Slovaks. Was called Hlinka, Hlinka guard.

Q: Okay. Were they young?

A: Yeah, I think so.

Q: And what was their manner like?

A: They brought us to the police, and there were all kinds of our friends over there

already sitting.

Q: How old were you?

A: How old was I? That was in -- I think I was almost 16.

Q: So it was in "42?

A: Yeah, it was in "42. I had in the meantime, after school, my father had a very

good friend who had a bakery, including like a patisserie, where people would have

tables. It still exists today in Bratislava.

Q: And which chi --

A: It's called Konditorei Mayer. They were German, but very nice. They were

friends of my parents, cause they had about four stores away from my parents" store.

And so when they throw me out of school, I don't know if you're interested in that -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Yes, I want to know about that.

A: When they threw me out of school, what do you do at the home all day long? So,

this friend of mine, the -- the ha -- the Uncle Mayer, they called him, told my father,

why don't you let her come, and she can learn in my bakery, to -- to bake and to

cook, etcetera.

Q: And did you do that?

A: And then I-- yeah. And when my father came with the idea home, I said, why

should I go to learn to bake and to make hors d" oeuvres -- you know, the very noble,

elegant things? What do I need it for? So he said, when you're going to have later on

a cook, cook in your house, then you can supervise better, and you're going to know

how to do things.

Q: Did that make sense to you?

A: No. Now, or then?

Q: Then.

A: No. But it was better than hanging around doing nothing. So I worked there for a

few month then.

Q: Mm-hm. But just a few months?

A: Yeah. About a year, or something like that.

Q: Mm-hm. And what was the experience like?

A: Very hard work, learning very, very nice things.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Can you still make them?

A: Yeah, if I wanted to, but --

Q: You don't want to.

A: -- not now, nah.

Q: Nah. Did -- at that point, was -- in Slovakia, were you forced to wear yellow

stars?

A: Yes, the big one.

Q: Okay. And when did that come in, fairly --

A: I don't know.

Q: Okay.

A: [really don't know.

Q: But fairly soon after all of the changes?

A: I think so, yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: But I can find out those things for you whatever you -- whenever you need it.

Q: No, no, I-- I'm not so much -- sometimes I'm interested in dates and things, but

mostly I'm interested in the -- the length, the depth of an experience. So if it happens,

if something happens and it only lasts for a little bit, that's important to know. If it

lasts a long time, that's important to know. So I assume that you were -- you were The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

thrown out of school fairly early on, if-- if you were only in two years of

gymnasium, right?

A: And then I had a third year in the other one, in the mixed one.

Q: In the mixed one.

A: Czech and Slovak, yeah.

Q: And that was okay, to go there, it was allowed?

A: Yeah, oh yeah, of course. And in the meantime, of course, we had organized --

there was a very well-known bookstore in Bratislava, it was called Der Steiner.

Steiner Buchhandlung.

Q: Steiner Buchhandlung, uh-huh.

A: Yeah. And they had the big house, summer home, with a garden, which had a

fence. And they allowed all of those young groups of Jewish children to do whatever

they wanted in their garden, because we saw that we couldn't go there, because they

would beat us up in -- you cou -- would walk up about 10 minutes. It was a very nice

area, and there were the summer homes.

Q: And was this bu -- was this bookstore owned by a Jewish --

A: Steiner familie, yeah.

Q: Yeah. Jewish family, yeah.

A: Yes. All that -- about 200 years.

Q: What was going on -- uh-huh?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: One of this -- one the -- one of the sons of the owner went with me to school, and

we went to school, and he died about almost two years ago, in Jerusalem. He was

working for Yad Vashem --

Q: Oh really?

A: -- when he retired, yes. His name was -- in Hebrew was David, but we called him

Ziggy. Siegfried Steiner.

Q: Siegfried Steiner.

A: Yes. And his sister was Rially(ph) in Hebrew, and she was the [indecipherable]

the leader of the group of Jewish children which I belonged to.

Q: Did you --

A: We would meet there, and talk there, it was all Zionistic organization.

Q: What was the name of the organization?

A: What was the name of the organization? One was -- one was Maccabee Hatzair,

that was mostly the sport. Bakhovka(ph) was the swimming club, and then was -- I

think it was B'nai Yehuda(ph), I'm not sure. Aki -- B'nai Akiba.

Q: B'nai Akiba.

A: B'nai Akiba, I think, yeah.

Q: What was going on with your brother with the -- all these things that were

happening?

A: My brother had his group, where he belonged to.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: But the Steiners were very good friends of ours. The parents were friends, and

we were friends with the family. By the way, the sister, Rially(ph) Steiner, she died

very early in Auschwitz. We know that. And then was there a -- a very good friend

of my brother's, his name was Leo Lachner(ph). He died a few years in

Switzerland, he was a -- I think he was a composer in Switzerland. They were old

friends. I don't know if [indecipherable]

Q: It -- it's fine. I-I mean, the more names you can recall, the better it is.

A: Oh, I can --

Q: Yeah.

A: My -- my -- the first and second year was the -- we had one main teacher in deut --

in deut -- in gymnasium. It was called the Deutsche Statzial(ph) gymnasium, and his

name was Dr. Erbian(ph) Goy(ph), and he was very, very nice to us.

Q: And he was German?

A: I don't know what he was.

Q: Okay.

A: Probably. He taught in a German gymnasium.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: So, were there Slovak people who showed that they didn't like what was going

on, or were there --

A: I don't know, we didn't -- I don't -- didn't have much contact with --

Q: Okay.

A: -- with people.

Q: Okay.

A: We tried to survive.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: And learn.

Q: Yeah.

A: But when we had these [indecipherable] in the -- the garden, or ever we were,

was mostly reading, and studying. Then came two teachers, two young women from

Berlin, refugees. They survived, and they came to -- and they started a religious

school for the few girls over there, that was also in Steiner garden.

Q: So it was a refuge.

A: It was a refuge, yes, yes. I was still in contact with his wife. I was in very close

contact with him til -- til he died. He lived [indecipherable]. His cousin was -- was in

the store til the end, til now.

Q: I don't understand that very well, he was in a store?

A: His cousin.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Yes?

A: Stayed in Bratislava.

Q: And owned a store?

A: And owned the store, yes.

Q: Store.

A: The same Steiner Buchhandlung.

Q: Wow.

A: Yeah. There are books about them. I'm sure of-- I'm sure there are in washing --

in your museum.

Q: Well, it's important to know about this from different people, and different

sources.

A: Yeah, but I mean there -- I'm sure there are.

Q: Yeah, okay, okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: When you were arrested with your mother, were your brother and father left

behind?

A: They were not home.

Q: So they would have taken you all?

A: Yeah, they would have taken anybody they saw.

Q: Okay. And when they took the two of you, you left an empty house?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: No, full house.

Q: An empty house of people.

A: Yeah.

Q: Of people, but a full house of items.

A: A full -- yeah. That was -- before that though, everything was already taken; the

radio, and -- and the -- all jewelry, it was already all taken by the state.

End of File One

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The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record. 38 Interview with Alice Tyroler May 8, 2013 Beginning File Two

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

interview with Mrs. Alice Tyroler.

A: [inaudible]

Q: Yeah. And we were talking about -- we were talking about the requisition and the

confiscation of -- of your family's personal items. Can you tell me about the process,

and how that took place?

A: I don't know, they just made an announcement, you have to bring it there and

there, and you took and you brought it.

Q: Did you do this yourself?

A: I remem -- no, I didn't do it.

Q: Okay. What is it that you remembered?

A: [remember that I missed the radio very much, because there were no TVs or

anything. And well, whatever jewelry there was, and good things, pictures, and you

know, something.

Q: What was -- what happened to you after you were at that police station?

A: After the police station, they took us on the train, and took us to Novaky.

Q: And what is Novaky?

A: Novaky was a camp that had -- was a forced labor camp, and also selection, some

-- they went sometimes both to Auschwitz from there too.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: I see. Did you know about those selections at the time?

A: Yeah.

Q: Did people know where they were going?

A: We had an idea, yes.

Q: Okay. So, this was in 1942?

A: Yeah.

Q: Had by that time you heard about what was happening to the Jews in other

countries?

A: Oh shu -- yes.

Q: Okay.

A: They were -- I mean, I don't know what you would call them in English, they

were [indecipherable] they took messages from one place to another one. I mean,

the whole world knew what was going on. Here they knew what was going on.

Q: When -- how was your mother when you got to Novaky? You were together?

A: Yes, we were together for a short while.

Q: Who too --

A: My father and my brother stayed here in -- stayed there.

Q: In their home?

A: No.

Q: In the -- where?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Somewhere.

Q: Uh-huh, they were hiding.

A: In Nanny's -- in Nanny's home, yes.

Q: Okay.

A: And he was working also for -- that was illegal, something illegal, Jewish

organization, my brother. And my father was an expert, and he was hired by a

company that belonged to the state. That gave him the privilege to wear the little

star. There were big yellow stars, and little stars. And the important, working -- if

he's in -- good enough to work, he had the privilege to work in very little star.

Q: And it -- was it so that when you and your mother were arrested, that it was at that

point that your father and brother went into hiding with your nanny?

A: I think so, I don't know --

Q: Okay.

A: -- really, yeah.

Q: Okay. And you didn't know what was going on with them because you were at

the camp?

A: We had no idea, yeah.

Q: Okay. What was --

A: And after a while, my father got a permission to bring my mother out, and I was

supposed to follow a week later. And she didn't want to go, she didn't want to leave The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

me there. But I was able to communicate with my brother, through the nanny. You

know, it --

Q: Yes.

A: -- somehow were --

Q: How were you able to do that when you were in the camp yourself?

A: We were able sometimes to send out the note.

Q: Okay.

A: When you found somebody who will take it.

Q: How was your mother's --

A: And he --

Q: Uh-huh, excuse me.

A: --he--- my brother said then, you can't come yet, you'll come probably in a week

or two, but we are not sure. We can't get it in writing. So I really -- we decided to tell

my mother then the permission was promised for me to go, so she would go. And I --

we'd-- we -- we were told then, if she doesn't go now, we can't go any more. She

had to go first.

Q: And she eventually --

A: She eventu -- she gave in, yes. Because if I can't come a week later after her, then

she would have spoiled the whole thing.

Q: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: But I wasn't sure that I could go, and I -- I was glad to get her out.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because I knew when she's out, she would be safe, because [indecipherable]

was there, and they will do whatever they can. And I stayed, and I told her I really --

was almost a lie, but I did anyway. So.

Q: So what happened?

A: She went home too, and she officially was able to live with my father and -- over

there.

Q: Okay.

A: Somewhere, I don't know where.

Q: Okay.

A: They were not in hiding any more, because he had gotten the job.

Q: What about your brother? Was he included in that safe -- safety net, or --

A: I don't think so.

Q: Okay.

A: He was in -- he had to make his own.

Q: Okay.

A: But they were somehow in contact, but he had to make his own. We never talked

about the time, never, after the war or anything, never. It was too painful. My father

-- then later on it came to it -- then they withdrew my father's permit of working. I The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

have somewhere some paper, where the release of him from his employment, he's

now free -- the state is now free to deport him, my mother and my brother and me.

Whoever they can find, they can take. I have it in writing from the -- from the Slovak

state, but I have to find it, I didn't really --

Q: It would be very interesting to see that document eventually.

A: IfI can find it, Pll let you know.

Q: Yeah. Do you know what he was an expert in?

A: My father?

Q: Yeah, that he --

A: Tex -- textiles.

Q: So he was hired because of his expertise in textiles?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: And he was hired, I don't know what he was hired for.

Q: Okay.

A: I didn't talk to him about it, because I never saw him any more.

Q: How did that -- how --

A: Then he, my mother and my brother --

Q: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: -- went to the nanny, into the apartment in hiding. She had the sister. She lived --

they lived together in the same apartment. Those two women agreed to save their

lives.

Q: What were their names?

A: The nanny was Anna Weiss, and the -- Francisca Yahan(ph).

Q: Yahan(ph).

A: Yeah. Francisca Yahan(ph) and Anna Weiss. Anna Weiss was the nanny.

Q: Okay. But all this was going on, and you didn't know about it because you were

in Novaky?

A: [knew [break] let me put it in.

Q: Okay.

A: Here you have Frieda -- Frieda nerv --

Q: [have --

A: Gizzy(ph) Fleischman.

Q: Gizzy(ph) Fleischman.

A: Yeah.

Q: This is book is [speaks foreign language here]

A: [indecipherable] Gizzy(ph) Fleischman, yeah.

Q: Okay, and it's --

A: Pll just tell you, and she's coming in -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: The store.

A: --into my store, yeah.

Q: Okay. And this is acknowledgement in a book by Mr. Oskar(ph) Noiman(ph)

[indecipherable]

A: This fell off, I am sorry.

Q: Okay, that's okay. So --

A: I don't know how to do that, otherwise I wouldn't make --

Q: Okay, now we're fine. So, we were talking about --

A: Yeah.

Q: We were talk --

A: The beginning of Novaky.

Q: Yeah. I mean, you were in Novaky as all of this was going on.

A: Yeah.

Q: So, you didn't know what was happening?

A: No, I had no idea what was happening.

Q: And did that permission for you to leave a week later ever come?

A: No.

Q: It never did?

A: No.

Q: So, how did -- how did you -- how did that affect you?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Iwas very happy that my mother was out. I was free to do whatever I wanted. I

was working underground anyway.

Q: So why don't you tell me a little bit about that underground work?

A: Underground is nothing much, it's the -- for example, we had the -- do you want

to tape that?

Q: Yeah.

A: Okay, let me think, I have to think about it.

Q: About the underground activities?

A: Yeah, I have to --

Q: Okay.

A: [heard about it, I was too young to do too much.

Q: Okay.

A: There were mostly men in there.

Q: Okay.

A: And we had the connection with Auschwitz, there was one man who went back

and forth, until they caught him.

Q: That's quite amazing.

A: Yeah. I don't remember his first name, his last name -- we called him

Helfgott(ph). The blond young man who spoke fluently German, and went back and The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

forth, and we ask him where he went, he said, don't ask. And one nice day he didn't

come back, so they caught him.

Q: Was he a guard, was he a prisoner?

A: No, he was one of us, yeah. There was, for example, they brought in, at the

certain time in -- I don't know if you ever heard, there was a so-called Siestej

prapore, which is the sixth division of Jewish soldiers. In order to go like to the

military, everybody had to go. They wore green uniforms. The Jewish group wore

black uniforms, and were doing the ugly and difficult work, digging and -- well, that

was it. And they came in in about 1943, they brought them -- transferred them from

the military into the camp.

Q: As prisoners?

A: No, as -- yeah, as inmates from the camp. Never -- never saw the pr -- yeah, as a

prisoner. Okay. So, there was a group of young men, and one of them came with

typhoid from -- but he didn't come with his group of soldiers, he came from another

camp, but that was a political camp, that was not a Jewish camp.

Q: Okay.

A: He was called Elaver(ph), and there they had political prisoners. And I knew --

we knew his family -- I knew from home his family, but he came alone. His father

was a psychiatrist who was killed by one of his patients, but before. And his name The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

was Janko(ph) Sakay(ph). And you couldn't bring him -- didn't bring him in the

barracks, so they brought him in a tent.

Q: Okay.

A: And I--I took care of him. Wasn't afraid of that.

Q: You didn't catch the typhoid?

A: No.

Q: Did he -- did he get better?

A: Yes. He became a editor of a newspaper.

Q: Underground newspaper?

A: No.

Q: I mean, after the war.

A: Afterwards. After the war.

Q: After the war, okay. So tell me a little bit about your daily life in Novaky.

A: When the -- when those soldiers came in, they came of -- say about 200 -- I really

don't know how many came over there. The camp was divided into three

[indecipherable]. Okay, and there was barbed wire, like -- like a camp. I lived on the

third one, the third, on top. And there were over there, barracks for families. I was in

the barracks for families because I came in with my mother. And then were the

barracks for young men, separated. And the joke was I never went into the barrack. I

didn't -- I wasn't interested to go into the barrack with all the guys. And one day, in The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

camp, there was a -- for some reason they built a swimming pool in camp. I think the

reason for it was, what they did in Theresienstadt, to -- when somebody comes in,

some Red Cross or something, they show them how good they treat the people. I

don't know. That was my interpretation, I don't know. And over there, I was a gre --

I was a very good swimmer, so -- so we swam over there. And one day I heard -- it

was on the -- I think it was on a Su-Sunday. Was after work, we were there, and I

heard they had brought Gizzy(ph) Fleischman in there, okay? So I got up in the

bathing suit with just like a robe, and I went after her to see if I can help her, because

I knew she's in trouble, because they -- they held her separate in a prison.

Q: And -- okay. How -- who was Gizzy(ph) shl -- Fleischman?

A: Gizzy(ph) Fleischman was the aunt of my brother's best friend, who lived til

about two years ago, in Australia.

Q: Okay. And how was she well-known, how was she famous?

A: She was very, very active in, as you saw, in that c-camp, in the underground.

Q: Okay. Do you know what her -- role she played?

A: No. People didn't talk. And I was too young. I was a [indecipherable] but she

was already about 40 years old or something.

Q: So did you go, and did you find her?

A: Yes, I found her. I found her and I -- they let me in, the guard, because she was

being interrogated, and she was in a separate room held.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: She was not in the barracks with the other people, because she was too important.

And I made her --I met her, she was very happy to see me. And then I said, I see you

tomorrow, and find out where you are and what's going on, and see you -- they

didn't let me stay very long. But she was being treated normally, I mean, not -- and

then two days later, she was gone. She was taken to Auschwitz. And this way, at the

time when I went down, somebody else walked next to me, a big guy. It was my

future husband -- became my future husband. We met over there because he came in

with his military, and his sister was married to a man -- next to Novaky, next to the

camp, was a city. There was a --

Q: What was the city?

A: Prievita(ph).

Q: Prievita(ph).

A: Prievita(ph), yeah. There was a liquor and marmalade factory, and he was the

director there. The factory belonged to a Jewish family, they were called

Hymar(ph), and my later brother-in-law, they were called Grott(ph). He was able to

pay the guard off, my --

Q: This Mr. Grott(ph), was he Gentile?

A: No-

Q: He was Jewish?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: -- was a Jew.

Q: Okay.

A: The Hymars(ph) were Jew, too.

Q: Okay.

A: They were also Jewish.

Q: But how was he able to stay and be director of that marmalade factory?

A: They let them stay for a while.

Q: Okay.

A: Because they exported.

Q: I see.

A: They let them stay. I don't know what the deal was over there where it was, but

they were there. Wasn't official any more, but he was there. He was not officially the

director any more, but he was. And he was there visiting because his sister was in

camp with two boys. Her two boys were three and six years old. We brought them in

1968 here, because my sister-in-law took them into the home after, because these

two boys, the mother with the two boys were caught and taken to be shot. But they

did not shoot the boys, because the peasant who -- there was one woman peasant,

there were two little boys, nice looking, good little boys, with the mother, and they

were going to shoot them three. And the peasant begged the German soldier, give me

the boys, I don't have any children. So they told her, take them.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Like kittens.

A: Yeah, take them. Shot the mother in front of the kids.

Q: Oh my God.

A: The six year old remembered, the three year old doesn't. So, now, are we finished

with Novaky, or you want to hear more?

Q: Oh no, I-- I want to know a little bit more.

A: Okay.

Q: I want to know --

A: Okay, I worked in two or three places. I worked in -- there we made -- we made

the backpacks for the military, and then I worked in the kitchen a little bit. The more

you worked, the less you were -- the more they let you stay, okay. So, I wasn't very

scared, I -- because I was young and stupid, so [indecipherable]. So I stayed there in

the barracks, had a lot of good friends, and started to go out with this man I met on

the way to the pool.

Q: So this man who followed you to --

A: He didn't follow me, he went on the same street, on the same road.

Q: Ah, okay, so when you went to see Gizzy(ph) shle -- Fleischman, it was by

coincidence that he was there.

A: By coincidence, and he went to his -- to the bra -- to the sister of my future

brother-in-law.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Got it. The one who was shot --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- eventually.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah, okay. And so you started to date him.

A: We started to date, yeah --

Q: And what is his na --

A: --as much as we could.

Q: Of course, in the -- in the middle of Novaky.

A: In the middle of Novaky, yeah.

Q: What was his name?

A: Paul.

Q: Last name?

A: Tyroler.

Q: Tyroler.

A: Tyroler, yeah.

Q: Yeah. And where was he from?

A: He was from Rutke(ph), from Slovakia.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And what about him --

A: He was very --

Q: What --

A: He was very -- he was in Hashomer Hatzair, that was a Jewish organ -- also a

Jewish organization, it was more the free -- free thinking --

Q: What about him appealed to you?

A: I don't know. I don't know. I was 16, he was 21. I don't know.

Q: But you know, it is unusual that a romance would start sp -- you know, to grow in

the middle of such a place.

A: Oh, what do you mean? What do you think, they didn't have boyfriends, or

something?

Q: Well, tell me about that.

A: I don't know. We started to -- he used to come -- he -- he lived on the first objekt,

he used to come after work sometimes. And because his brother-in-law had -- they

were called the guardista(ph) th-the Hlinka guarde --

Q: Okay.

A: -- that was the -- the group of -- of people who supervised the camp, it was the --

Q: Mm-hm, got it, okay.

A:--no---I don't know, it's actually -- what you would call them -- they were called

Hlinkova garda. Hlinka was a big anti-Semite, and of course, very glad to kill the The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Jews. Because my brother in -- future brother-in-law had connection with the guards,

he gave them money, or whatever --

Q: Right.

A: -- they let him come visit his sister, you know.

Q: Okay.

A: They were still official legal outside at this time. And -- what did I want to say?

That came very -- came very good later on when the camp was -- when the uprising

came. But over there in camp, it was nothing special. Nobody s -- nobody starved to

death from hunger. It was a difficult life, we worked very hard, and --

Q: Were -- I mean, but were there many selections to Auschwitz?

A: Not any more.

Q: Was it a filtration?

A: Not any more after I came. Yeah, they stopped it.

Q: So it became a work camp?

A: Forced labor camp.

Q: Forced labor camp, okay.

A: With lots of -- with lots of old people and children and whole families.

Q: Okay. [break]

A: I sound even worse now.

Q: So, you were saying about Paul -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Yeah.

Q: -- about your -- he wasn't your husband then, but -- but --

A: A friend.

Q: Pardon -- your friend.

A: Yeah.

Q: That he was able to pay off a guard.

A: He -- no. He -- there was a doctor, the doctor of the camp, was Dr. Schpera(ph).

He was a friend of my later brother-in-law.

Q: Okay.

A: You know, with the [indecipherable] family. So he was able to [indecipherable]

and my f--

Q: I'm going to test a little bit more -- [break]

End of File Two

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Q: This is a continuation of the interview with Mrs. Alice Tyroler, on May 8",

2013, and we were talking about your friend who became your husband later.

A: Paul.

Q: Paul. There was a doctor, you were saying, in Novaky --

A: No, there was a doctor in camp. His name was Dr. Schpera(ph). He was a local

doctor, and when the camp was established, they, of course, made him the doctor

over there. We did not have much medication, the joke was, it was iodine and

aspirin, that you went to buy.

Q: Okay.

A: Because they didn't give us much medication. And he went out every day on the

bicycle --

Q: Okay.

A: -- to -- with the prescription, and whatever they needed, and came back. Besides

they brought back the BBC news, every day, to the right place.

Q: So the camp was rather well informed.

A: Very well informed, yes.

Q: How many inmates were there, let's say at its height?

A: I don't know.

Q: Do you know approximately how many it had?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Must be a couple of thousand. I can find out for you.

Q: Okay, it's not a -- okay, that's fine. And what were you -- you mentioned earlier

that you made knapsacks there.

A: We ro -- made knapsacks and they made all kinds of things. They made clothing,

they made men's shirts. Was many [indecipherable]

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: So I, when I finished with my work, with one shift of that, I went to the shirt

manufacturing department and folded them.

Q: I see.

A: I was good at folding shirts.

Q: Were there many fatalities, or ca-- in Novaky?

A: No, not too many.

Q: Okay. And how did the guards treat the prisoners, or the inmates, however you

would call --

A: No problem.

Q: No problem?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: They didn't give us problems, no. We lived -- I mean, we behaved properly, and

one thing that I remember, one of the girls who was ill, was there alone, about my

age. She cracked up and she got hysterical, and --

Q: And what happened?

A: They took her out. Probably --

Q: So, in that kind of atmosphere, where, compared to other places, other enclosed

areas, camps and so on --

A: It's a-- was -- yeah, was one of the easiest ones.

Q: But then, how do you explain that your future brother-in-law's sister is shot in

front of her children?

A: She wasn't in there. That was after -- after we -- the -- that happened after --

Q: After what?

A: After the whole -- the camp ended at some time.

Q: Oh, I see.

A: Yeah, sure.

Q: I see.

A: That was already in the mountains.

Q: I see. So how long were you in Novaky?

A: Iwas in Novaky from -- I think it was July, or -- July -- I think it was July, I'm not

sure, deg42.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: To August 44.

Q: Over two years.

A: Yeah.

Q: Had you any news about what was going on with your own family at that time?

A: No.

Q: Okay.

A: Absolutely not, no. Then the -- what was I going to say? Okay, so we were

already at that, and BBC news came in, and then in 44, in August "44, there was the

uprising of the partisans in Slovakia.

Q: This would have been the communist partisans.

A: Excuse me?

Q: The communist backed partisans.

A: I think so, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: But internationally, we had Fr-French, we had Russian, we had all kinds of

partisans.

Q: Yeah.

A: This time, they came and they worked on [indecipherable] and about 200 young

men went out to stop the Germans -- to stop the German tanks, so not too many came The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

back. And I think they knew that, but that's what happened. And what we had, my

future brother-in-law, from this factory --

Q: Yes.

A: -- had access to trucks, and he gave -- he lent two trucks to the partisan -- to the

group over there.

Q: Right.

A: They were mostly people who were in the camp. Very few partisans, they didn't

stay there, they brought it in, and disappeared. And we loaded the trucks with

children, and older people, and my friend Paul and I went on -- on -- on a truck, on

the top, with -- with guns, and there was a -- full of kids and older people. And we

took them to Banska Bystrica, which was a place where --

Q: Right.

A: -- have you heard the name?

Q: Yes.

A: Okay. There was -- still free -- there were partisans, they were in charge at this

time. We brought them there, and they took care of them there. And they were

shooting [indecipherable] away, so everybody jumped up and down, you know,

every time they came over a plane --

Q: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: -- it took down as many people as we can, and in -- that was in the city, next to the

highway like those --

Q: Sort of the --

A: -- big holes.

Q: Yeah. Sort of trenches that --

A: Tren --

Q: Yeah.

A: Trenches, yes. And they -- they were hiding there, and -- and the plane didn't see

people [indecipherable]. And one time, the last time when I was on there, I had

enough, I didn't go down, I stayed on, and the -- came down, flew over me. I saw

him, he saw me and he didn't shoot. German pilot.

Q: And you were right there in his target?

A: I was right there, yeah. So he was a decent guy.

Q: But yet, he was shooting other times? Or was it other planes?

A: I don't know.

Q: You don't know --

A: Who knows?

Q: -- you don't know, yeah.

A: Who knows, something flies over you.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

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A: He didn't shoot me. So then we went into Banska Bystrica, the family of Poles had friends there, so we went with them in -- they had a house there, so we stayed with them, and they took me along, because when we came out of the camp, we picked up Paul's whole family.

Q: So you, more or less, was it like you broke out of that camp --

A: No.

Q: -- or had the Hlinka guards disappeared? How did --

A: Yeah, they -- they -- they opened it when the partisans came in with the weapons, they opened the camp.

Q: I see.

A: Everybody could go wherever he could.

Q: Okay, okay. So they were losing the war?

A: They were not lo -- didn't last long.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: Didn't last very long. So we were in Banska Bystrica for -- for a while, and one day there was a air raid, and Paul's sister was going to try to serve tea, you know, like to the group of men sitting there. And it was dark, so she went instead of the steps up, she went to -- the wrong way. Flew down the st -- flew down the flight of stairs, broke the collarbone and the shoulder, but had a -- May, June, July, au -- three and a half months old baby. So I-- I started taking care of the baby. Luckily, she was nursing. That's all she could do. Put her in the sling -- The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And hold her.

A: Put her in a sling and it grew back. No doctor, nothing. Then we went from there, we

tried to go in the mountains, if somebody let us in or not -- I have also somewhere in my

papers, and I might find it. When I find the papers, I'Il let you know.

Q: Okay.

A: Okay?

Q: Okay.

A: There was a school principal in the village. This is all in the mountains. And he

had the -- he took us in for a couple of days, until we found something else. He took

us in in the -- behind in the [indecipherable] same school, the room behind the wall,

he had two very badly injured partisans, French partisans, whom he saved the life,

yes. Was a nine year old boy who had a s -- her -- his son. And he went for food and

then the -- yeah, and got quiet, didn't say anything, because he knew. There were

nine year old kids, non-Jews.

Q: Yeah.

A: One time I remember I went with Paul to look for another place, to another

village. And as we walked up the hill, there were two guards with -- with guns. And

the question was [speaks German] Germans.

Q: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Soldiers. And of course we couldn't understand. We're not allowed to, I mean.

We did not know [indecipherable] we knew. So just [indecipherable]

Q: Can I ask a question at this point? Would you say that you th -- I don't know how

to phrase it, but some people just put it bluntly.

A: Bluntly.

Q: Did you look pa -- did you look particularly Jewish?

A: Me?

Q: Yes, and Paul.

A: Paul not at all.

Q: Okay.

A: Paul was reddish blonde --

Q: Okay.

A: -- six foot tall, and perfectly Slovak.

Q: So he could pass.

A: He went for -- then we went to one overnight to a -- to a peasant, to another

family, and they let us stay overnight. And all of a sudden we heard shooting, and

there was father and daughter. But [indecipherable] and the neighbors came running

and said, did you hear the shooting? And a peasant to -- said, don't worry about that,

they only shoot Jews, they don't shoot our people. So they didn't know who we

were, we were just refugees.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Got it.

A: Another little thing that maybe doesn't make sense to record, or something --

Q: No, it does make sense.

A: We had the baby carriage, with the little baby, four months old baby. And it was

snow, was in the winter. And I pushed the ba-baby carriage, because they couldn't --

I mean, the --

Q: Yeah.

A: Came by a German car with an officer, very nice guy. He got out of the car, he

said, [speaks German here] You know, because he saw I could hardly push. He got

back onto the truck and drove away.

Q: You could probably use some gasoline he's -- is what he said.

A: Yeah, but I-- I've --I said -- I was stupid, I didn't know. I probably spoke --

Q: Right.

A: --more civilized German than him, but --

Q: Yeah, of course.

A: But that wa --

Q: You don't give off that you do.

A: No, I couldn't.

Q: Of course.

A: That -- that's it.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Yeah.

A: Next what is? Next day we found a place where they would let us stay as Slovak

refugees. They didn't know we were Jewish.

Q: So here li -- here's another question so that I'm clear. At first you said it was you

and Paul who was going from village to village, but it was also -- it was a larger

group of people.

A: Was his mother, his sister, her husband, the baby, and the two of us.

Q: Okay. His mother, brother, sister, baby -- so, six of you.

A: I never counted.

Q: Doesn't matter. But it -- not just a couple. In other words, a family.

A: But we went out when we needed to go look for another place.

Q: I see. So you were kind of like the scouts.

A: Sometime, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: Something like that.

Q: Okay. So can we consider that from August when -- you know, the -- the guards

just opened the place of Novaky, you escaped, and now you were in some ways in

hiding.

A: After we did what -- after we did what was supposed to be done, yes.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Then we went for his family.

Q: Yeah, then you went for his family, and then you started hiding, from one place

to another, I see.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. So --

A: Then we went -- there was a lit -- there was another peasant who must have

known, because he was very intelligent, and his wife didn't know. They have a little

baby the same as ours, and the baby was very sick. And what do you do with a little

baby? You can't find a doctor over there in the mountains, they -- who knows where

he was? So I--I decided to put it in-- you know, they used to call it -- in prison it's

umschlag. It was, you put somebody with high fever, a baby, in a sheet with

lukewarm water, and it cools it off. Cause they didn't have a bathtub to put it in.

Q: Yeah.

A: And the baby got -- got well. So there were then the two babies, our baby and

their baby.

Q: And their baby.

A: What else can I tell you?

Q: How long did this wandering last?

A: The wandering lasted from August 44 to April 45.

Q: Wow. So a good eight months.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: A few months.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: A good -- over half a year.

A: Then we went to another one, I told you. Not as Jews, it's just the Slovak

peasants, who had to leave because there was something going on.

Q: Right.

A: And there was something very interesting, because how do you have -- yeah,

somebody wa -- became suspicious, and there was an old man, the -- the patriarch of

the family. And he was sitting in a room, and he called me in. And he started to ask

me questions. Either he heard the language, and it wasn't as good as the others or

something. And I knew everything. I knew my name, from Alice we got

Aloyasia(ph) -- yeah, I forget to tell you then, in one of the villages, Paul went to the

German Kommandatura and got papers for everybody.

Q: How was he able to do that?

A: He was a Slovak. He was a Slovak, so he gave him permission to go from one

village to another one, for him and his mother and his -- the whole --

Q: Okay. Okay. So he --

A: So he wa -- he [indecipherable] papers, yeah.

Q: Okay.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: But this -- this old patriarch of the family didn't seem to believe that. And he

called me in a room and he asked me the questions and everything, and the holidays,

which I knew exactly because I am very, very versed --

Q: So, Christian holidays.

A: Lam very well versed, yeah, because Nanny taught me. She wanted me to know

every -- both.

Q: Okay.

A: And -- until he asked me one question. He asked me when my name day is,

because in Europe --

Q: Yes.

A: -- the -- the religious Catholics didn't celebrate so much the birthday, but the na --

day of naming. Now, for example, my nanny was Anna. And this -- heilig(ph) Anna

was on July 26, I knew that every year, okay?

Q: And heiliga(ph) Alice?

A: [indecipherable] Aloyasia(ph), I have no idea. That's how he caught me. So he

sent -- in a snowstorm he sent his son for the priest. The priest came in the night,

through the snow. And the priest came, and he told him that this -- she sam -- she

seems to be Jewish or something, she's not a Slovak. She's either a Gypsy or

something, we don't know. So the priest told him to let me go in a separate room

with him, he will ask me. So we went there, and he said, I know who you -- he told The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

me, I know who you are, I know you are Jewish. If you can go now, tonight, in the

snowstorm, out of here, the snow -- you know, when you walk --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- okay, you usually leave a trail. But when it snows, it's covered til the morning.

Q: Yeah.

A: The priest said, I do not have to go now to the German Kommandatura in the

night, because it's a snowstorm. If you disappear from here overnight, I will go in

the morning and tell them where you are, in this house, but you'll be gone. So that's

that. That's what we did. That was when a Catholic priest saved my life, okay? So in

a-- what else, yeah. My father, while my mother was hidden with my brother at the

nanny, was in -- but that was before, a little bit.

Q: That's okay, tell me.

A: He had a friend, a professor in the hospital, and he told him too he will hide him

in the hospital, as a patient. You don't see, I mean, you're lying in bed, an older

man. So he was there, and they came also -- the SS came in and checked. And one of

the people who came in was a young man who was originally from our house, the

super's son.

Q: Oh my.

A: Who my father found a job in [indecipherable] this carpet store, the oriental

carpet store.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: That's right.

A: And he learned there the business. He was -- he started as a -- he -- where you

learn it --

Q: That's right.

A: -- then you become higher and higher and higher. So my father was very happy,

he saw him, he said, this one is not going to --

Q: Betray me.

A: -- betray me. He took him, and out. He went to Sarrit(ph). From Sarrit(ph) he

went supposedly to Auschwitz, and from Auschwitz he went to Oranienburg

somehow. They don't know if it was Oranienburg or Sachsenhausen. That's what

your papers show.

Q: And what happened to your father?

A: We don't know. He died somewhere.

Q: And it was because --

A: A week before liberation, he was alive, that we know. Because a friend of his

came back, and he told us. Then, he was still an optimist. He was telling, do you see

the fla -- see those planes are coming? You see the shooting, we can hear already,

they coming to liberate us. And he -- they went back, they went to sleep at night, and

by the morning he was gone. And nobody knew where, if he tried to escape, or

whatever, you don't know.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And it was all because of this -- this young man who --

A: Yeah, this young man we --

Q: -- the super's son.

A: Yeah, the young man who -- yeah. And what else, I wanted to tell you something.

Maybe I remember, if not, then -- yeah. While we were in this one person's house,

who knew who we are, and hid us -- [phone ringing]

Q: Excuse me just for a sec -- [break] Okay, and we're continuing. What were we

talking about when the phone rang? I think it was that you -- we were talking about

your father, and --

A: We were talking about my father, yeah. And --

Q: Father, and the super's son, who betrayed him.

A: Yeah. That was in deg44. And yeah, during ar -- around Christmas, when we were in

the person's house --

Q: That's right.

A: -- they had a son, and I ask him could he get me some kind of a card, because I

wanted to send a Christmas card. They didn't have Christmas cards, but like a

postcard.

Q: Yeah.

A: And I wrote to my nanny. I wished her a merry Christmas and told her [speaks

German] that was me [German]. Yeah. That kay -- what I had in mind -- she knew The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

my handwriting. She knew it was me who wrote it, but they're not going to come

her, to interrogate her where I am.

Q: Oh my. You had to think so cleverly.

A: To survive.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: I didn't want her to get in trouble, to --

Q: So, if I translate that, you -- you sent her a postcard wishing her merry Christmas.

A: Yeah.

Q: And then that -- and then a message --

A: You do not have to -- yeah.

Q: Look for --

A: Don't look any more for --

Q: Lisa.

A: -- Lisa.

Q: She's shot.

A: She's a-- yeah.

Q: She's been shot.

A: Yeah.

Q: And -- and so y-you're -- you were letting her know that you were not shot, that

you were alive. Okay.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: I didn't know then my mother was there, or my brother was there, but I knew she

would be there.

Q: Yeah.

A: And after the war, we came back to Beravita(ph), that's where the aunt let them

-- left them there, and I went to look for my family.

Q: I see.

A: Now, the trains were not going yet, because there were still mines on the --

Q: On the tracks.

A: Yeah, on the whole railroad tracks. So what we did, Paul and I -- he went with

me, to look for my family. We couldn't go into the tr -- into the train, but I don't

know what you call that in English, I never learn. Between two trains, the round

things we -- where they meet, the trains.

Q: You mean, there are -- where the --

A: Buffers, or something like this.

Q: Bumpers? Sort of like bumpers between one car and another?

A: Between one -- yeah, between, but big round ones.

Q: Okay. There must be -- I -- I understand what their function is.

A: Okay.

Q: Okay. So you were between two cars of a train?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: So we sat on this, because we couldn't go in, because it was not official, there

was not allowed to go in, because they were trying out the rails for mines.

Q: Oh, I see.

A: If there's still mines.

Q: So this is after the war already?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. So where did --

A: Was in April.

Q: Tell me, when did the war end for you?

A: When did the war end for us? Sometimes in beginning of April, I think.

Q: Okay. Is it be -- was the -- was the Soviet army there?

A: Yeah, the Soviet army, we had the very interesting meeting with the Soviet army.

Q: In what way?

A: We were still at the -- that wa -- that was before.

Q: Yeah.

A: We were still at the peasant's house.

Q: Okay.

A: And when the Soviets came in, the peasants hid their wives where they kept the

potatoes, etcetera, you know, because the Soviets like the ladies --

Q: Yeah.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A:--very much. But I was in boots, and I didn't look very -- and so we -- we took a

chance.

Q: Okay.

A: And we went down to the highway to find out how we can move out of there. So

there came a horse and wagon, with four Russians.

Q: Okay.

A: Two in the front with the horses, and in the backs, two officers. And we stopped

them, like two hitchhike. They stopped, and we ask them -- they could understand

each other, so what [speaks foreign language]

Q: What does that mean?

A: Take us to the next village, maybe.

Q: Okay.

A: And the one officer -- because you know they have those metal thingy, said,

Yu(ph) yevreyka(ph)? That means, you are Jewish?

Q: Yeah.

A: I figured the Germans didn't catch me, now the Russians caught me. What now?

Q: Yeah.

A: And I said, Da. Ya(ph) Yevreyka(ph).

Q: Yeah.

A: And he -- his answer was, ya tozhe Yevrey(ph).

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Oh, I'm also Jewish.

A: Yup. I don't speak Russian --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- but I understand, yeah [speaks Russian]

Q: [speaks Russian]

A: Parusku(ph), yeah.

Q: So what did -- did he help at all, did he do anything?

A: Yeah, he helped, he gave us some bread and he took us and told us where to get

off, yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: He helped a little.

Q: Okay.

A: But he didn't -- I thought he would -- he would kill us. But it was very interesting,

yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: Ya tozhe Yevrey(ph).

Q: Yeah.

A: Then, I don't know if you want to know anything else, I don't think --

Q: Yes, I do. Yes, I do. What di--so you, at some point, went with those trains --

A: Went to -- went to, from the train station, to Nanny's house.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: We knew exactly where she lived --

Q: Okay.

A: -- walked up the stairs.

Q: And?

A: And there was my mother and my brother, in her apartment.

Q: Wow.

A: They had no idea then I was alive.

Q: Did they get the postcard?

A: Yeah, she got the postcard, but that was months before. I mean, they didn't know

what happened to me afterward.

Q: I see.

A: So-

Q: What a meeting that must have been.

A: Yeah, it was an interesting meeting.

Q: Probably more than just interesting. Did -- when did you tell each other -- did you

talk about what you had all been through? Had your mother asked what those past

years had been like?

A: I didn't talk.

Q: Why not?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: I just said everything was fine. You see I'm fine, so what's the different?

Q: You didn't feel like it, you didn't want to?

A: No, no. No, what, just to excite? And then my mother [indecipherable] room,

and we got an apartment, he had a room in the same house -- oh, and I didn't want to

get married, because I thought -- my mother thought and my father is going to come

back, was hoping. And I figured, she is sick, old and sick, and if my father comes

home crippled or something --

Q: Who will take care of?

A: I didn't want him to be stuck with -- with a family like that. So we waited for

quite a while, and then my brother started to work for the UNRRA in Hamburg.

Q: So he was -- he went to Germany?

A: He went with a -- with a group of Czech peop -- Czechoslovak people to

Germany for the UNRRA.

Q: Okay, and you s --

A: In British uniform.

Q: And how did you -- and you stayed in Bratislava?

A: I stayed in Bratislava, yeah.

Q: How did your brother end up --

A: How did I support myself?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler *

May 8, 2013

Q: That's the next question. That's the next question. The first one is, your brother

was in a British uniform, did -- how did that happen?

A: The UNRRA supplied him.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay.

A: The UNRRA supplied him, and he went to Hamburg, into the port, and he was --

they gave him some high, official [indecipherable] and he met over there

[indecipherable] daughter, they got married. In the meantime he went onto the

Exodus.

Q: Oh, and he went to Israel?

A: No.

Q: Oh.

A: Exodus was over there in Hamburg for a while. He went on, and of course they

caught him, and they wanted to -- some punishment for English officer to go, and

they knew he was a Jew. They English -- the British. So the Czech consul got him

out, they said he was a Czech. Czechoslovak citizen, you have no right to -- he didn't

do anything, he didn't kill anybody, he didn't steal anything, and they got him out.

And he called one day, and he said, I'm coming home. The UNRRA is being --

Q: Disbanded?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: No, somehow transferred.

Q: I see.

A: And I said no, you're not coming home, because we knew, if these people come

back, they will put him in jail, because they were now communists, they were under

the British end. I--I was scared, you know.

Q: Yeah.

A: I said, no you don't. I take my mother. In the meantime, six weeks before that, we

got married, because I said, if my father comes back, you'll find him anyway.

Q: Okay.

A: I didn't want to wait any longer, because the communists were there, and we

didn't know what's going to happen. So I took my mother with her handbag, and we

went on vacation, quote, unquote.

Q: And where was the vacation to? What place?

A: The vacation was originally supposed to be just a short vacation, just to look if

we can get the -- because we would have visas later for South America, we c-

couldn't come to America. We wanted to go to Israel. So I went, sat on a train with

my mother, went to Paris.

Q: I see.

A: And in Paris, we went into an immigration hotel where immigrants live. And I

got a job, I was translating a little bit.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: And this is when, what year?

A: Ach -- 48.

Q: Forty-eight. So, two or three years pa -- had passed?

A: Yeah.

Q: And --

A: We're waiting for my father.

Q: To come back.

A: Yeah.

Q: And you'd -- did you know at that point that he had been sent from Auschwitz to

somewhere else? You just didn't know, he disappeared from the hospital.

A: We knew -- the last month we knew that he was with his friend, and his friend

saw him at night, and in the morning he was gone.

Q: Okay, so you knew that much.

A: Yeah, that much. And I thought when he didn't show up in three years, but my

mother wouldn't give up.

Q: Of course, of course.

A: So---

Q: And what di -- what had the life been like during those three years in Bratislava,

after the war?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: There were some interesting things. My -- Paul was working in the Bricha, and

my brother was working in the Bricha, and what -- what else? I was working. We

worked parachutes, cut them up, and I painted them in scarves. I made scarves of

them, and sold them.

Q: And that's how you brought some money in?

A: Yeah.

Q: Still the textile business.

A: No, that wasn't textile, that was art. No, but --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- we bought the -- bought the parachute, then you --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- cut them, and --

Q: Was it -- was -- was there a shortage of food?

A: Not much.

Q: Okay. Did you -- where did you live during those three years?

A: In the house I wa -- I was living before we went away.

Q: Oh.

A: In the first house, not in the second house, in the first house.

Q: In the first house.

A: Yeah, in the same street where the Deutsche Statzial(ph) gymnasium was.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: I see.

A: Palisadenveeg(ph).

Q: Palisadenveeg(ph).

A: Yeah.

Q: And when you went on vacation, you said goodbye to your nanny, yes?

A: Yes.

Q: She knew that you were not --

A: Yes.

Q: Yes.

A: Of course, yeah. But then when we already knew where to go and what to do.

Q: Yeah.

A: She wouldn't come here. She says she is too old, and she wanted to stay with her

sister. She was almost 80, so --

Q: Yeah.

A: --I could understand that.

Q: Is the --

A: But my -- the family, my husband's family --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- they came in 1968 here, we brought them here. There was an opening for a few

days. I don't know if you know, it was the velvet revo -- Velvet Revolution?

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: That's 1988. 1988.

A: Sixty-eight.

Q: We -- no, "68 was Prague Spring.

A: Okay, but whatever they called it --

Q: Yeah, Prague Spring.

A: -- okay, I was already -- I was already -- we were in the meantime in Israel.

Q: Yeah. Ah, so from Paris you went to Israel.

A: Yeah, but I stayed two years in Paris because I was very sick, and I spent eight

months in the hospital, and then we went to Israel.

Q: How long did you live in Israel?

A: Eight years.

Q: So that brings us up to the mid-50s.

A: Fifty-eight.

Q: Okay. And when did you -- well, from Israel where did you go?

A: Here.

Q: To new y --

A: To America. But in Israel we had the -- it was very nice. We lived in a small

Arab village, it was near Haifa. My husband was in the military the whole eight

years. He was an inspector in the military. Later on in there he started as a driver, The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

and when he learned the language he became an inspector of things, and that's what

he did over there.

Q: Did you speak Hebrew?

A: No.

Q: Did you learn Hebrew?

A: Did I learn, no, but I speak Hebrew.

Q: You speak it now?

A: I mean -- yeah, near -- not very well, but I forgot a lot in 50 years.

Q: Yeah. And you came here then, in the late 50s?

A: Fifty-eight.

Q: In "58. And settled in New York?

A: Settled in Brooklyn. First we went to Kingsman(ph), because my bra -- yeah, so

the reason why we came to America, because my brother had come with his wife.

His wife is Tadudov(ph) Eda Airy(ph).

Q: Yeah.

A: And they had one little girl, they -- but he died very, very young, here.

Q: Yeah.

A: And she has a little -- she had a little girl, my sister-in-law, and we are in very

close connection with the -- with the young girl. And the baby I pushed the carriage The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

lives in London, married here to a doctor, and there's two girls who -- who made me

take -- who were after me for years to make the tape.

Q: I'm glad that they will be able to hear it.

A: Everybody. To have to do it, you have to do it. Israel was very nice for us, for

me, because we were free.

Q: Did you ever see or run into that super's son?

A: No. I wasn't interested. I could have found him, but what for? So I don't know

what you want fo -- to know about, between friends and Israel and --

Q: No.

A: -- you don't need anything, you have enough.

Q: Well, I-- I have a-- you know, just sort of like last questions, final questions. Is

there anything that you think should be added to this, that you'd want people to

know?

A: ... We were lucky. Most of us survi -- of us survived. Was married for 50 years,

have a very nice family. That's my revenge.

Q: As I said, it's a good revenge.

A: I think so.

Q: Yeah.

A: And if I find the -- the document and the pictures, I'll let you know.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Thank you. How -- did it change you? All of this, when you -- when it all started,

you're an 11 year old girl, nine year old girl. By the time the war ended, you had

even been in the partisans, let's say helping in the underground a little bit. That's

quite an education.

A: Let me show you something.

Q: Okay.

A: This is [indecipherable] Gizzy(ph) Fleischman.

Q: Yes.

A: Okay. These are not translated, but I'1l tell you what it is.

Q: Okay.

A: And I'm going to try to get it -- now that I forgot to tell you, the school I went to,

the public school. Have you ever heard about a rabbi called Hazzan(ph) Sofer(ph)?

Q: No.

A: It's a very well-known --

Q: A known rabbi?

A: Yeah, a very well-known dynasty of rabbis.

Q: Hazzan sa --

A: We [indecipherable] school, right behind our Jewish school.

Q: Okay.

A: And this is my Yad Vashem, this -- Paul's sister.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Who was shot.

A: She wa -- she -- 16. Huh?

Q: The -- Paul's sister who was -- no, it was -- it was the brother-in-law's sisters.

A: In Auschwitz, in Auschwitz.

Q: Yeah.

A: No, this is Paul's sister.

Q: Paul's sister, okay.

A: She was in Auschwitz in the first transport. It was one of the real tragedies, what

happened. He was in the [indecipherable] and he found out somehow then the

transports would go from Brutke(ph), from where he lives, and from

[indecipherable] two cities, they will go to -- to Auschwitz. And he somehow got

permission to go home of -- for the day from this military, and he missed the train by

about 10 minutes. He would have possibly --

Q: Been able to pull her off.

A: Possibly.

Q: Yeah.

A: She was 16, and this was one.

Q: Okay.

A: Then I show you something else. This here, this is in Slovak, but you will

understand. This is the minister of Slovak where the [indecipherable] he was The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

[speaks Slovakian] with the date of birth, was in Nazi occupied Czechoslovakia, in

-- from deg43 to "44. [speaks Slovakian] and he was -- he was racially persecuted

because he was a Jew, and --

Q: This is for your husband.

A: This is for my husband, and he was --

Q: It's a certificate from Slovakia.

A: -- this is number 250 -- have you ever heard about the 255?

Q: No.

A: It was a document that somebody was recognized as a partisan.

Q: Oh.

A: Mine, they only told me they would send me, but they never did.

Q: This was in 1991.

A: Yeah, tried to [indecipherable] to get it.

Q: Please be advised, this is from the Czech and Slovak Federal Republic, when it

was still one country, please be aware we have already informed you about the

receipt of the document from the Ministry of Defense. The document is ready to be

mailed to you upon receipt of your payment of 25 dollars, representing the consular

fee. Here is the receipt for that, and --

A: They never send it to me.

Q: -- they never sent the document.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: But it -- this is the same thing.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: That it's the same thing [indecipherable]

Q: And tell me, did you tell your children about all this --

A: Nothing.

Q: Nothing.

A: Nothing.

Q: Why?

A: What for?

Q: Did they ask questions?

A: Yeah, sometimes, but not much, because they knew I didn't want to talk. Have

you ever seen that?

Q: Let me see. Oh, from the Miles Lerman Center. Medal for Jewish Resistance.

People who resisted. So it would have been, there are many countries, and it's the

Jewish resistance in Slovakia that is also -- and you are one of those who is --

A: One of those.

Q: Yeah.

A: And you read German?

Q: Yes, I do.

A: That's from my mother's friend.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Okay, this is [speaks German] 1938.

A: Was in Vienna.

Q: In Vienna. [German]

A: Do you know what it is? [German]

Q: It means you're being fired, right?

A: No.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: [German] It means an error, they advise you. Official advise.

Q: It's official advise, okay.

A: Now, here. [German] When they -- you live in an apartment --

Q: Yes.

A: -- and they want to end your contract.

Q: I see, kiindigen, yes, of course.

A: The kiindigen, now lis -- this one. But what's interesting, there were three

women. One was the Haushalterin; that means like a cook and --

Q: Right, yeah.

A: -- you know, a -- it's kiindigen, she gave notice --

Q: Yes.

A: --to this man, who was the editor of the Viennese newspaper. [speaks German]

12 o'clock, at noon, executes [German] The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Yeah, the ar -- Aryan party takes --

A: [German] The -- they will not accept a Jewish tenant any more in the house. And

that was the editor of the Viennese newspaper, the Jew.

Q: My gosh. How did you get this document?

A: She gave it to me, hers -- his daughter.

Q: I see.

A: Yeah. [indecipherable]

Q: Yes. Let's see what these papers are.

A: [indecipherable]

Q: Yeah. [speaks German]

A: That's -- that's a ketubah. Ketubah is a marriage certificate, a Jewish marriage

certificate.

Q: A marriage cert-certificate. And this is --

A: A friend of mine.

Q: -- from November of ni -- November ninth, "38 [indecipherable]

A: It's Kristallnacht.

Q: It's Kristallnacht. And it's the date that she is --

A: She got married.

Q: Yeah.

A: It was a friend of mine.

The following transcript is the result of a recorded interview. The recording is the primary source document, not this transcript. It has not been checked for spelling nor verified for accuracy. This document should not be quoted or used without first checking it against the interview.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: Thank you for sharing those documents.

A: Well, I mean, fris -- I said it would be interesting, and these I had for -- had

because most of it is still --

Q: Yeah.

A: Its--

Q: It's the same thing.

A: That was -- that's the original.

Q: Yeah, I see.

A: And that's the copy.

Q: Thank you very much. And this then concludes the unit --

A: This in -- concludes, yeah? But I --

Q: Unless you have something else to say.

A: No.

Q: No?

A: But I'm doing what I was doing here, I don't think there is anything to do with it.

Q: Yeah, okay. Then this concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial

Museum interview --

End of File Three

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Q: Yeah, I wanted to know from you, how come you so much didn't want to talk

about these things. And if you can give me the explanation, I would appre -- I would

really appreciate it.

A: I did not talk to my children about it, because I don't think it should be -- children

need to know that, when they're young. We have time later. And then, my basic idea

is, there are two kind of people; people who have feelings and heart, and they're

going to get hurt by these stories; the people who don't like us are going just to have

pleasure from it, and I don't want to give it to them.

Q: I can understand that. And it's a complicated way to try and address that. The

point where you say people who will clearly -- children, when they hear things that

their parents went through, they feel for their parents, and they want to --

A: Why hurt them?

Q: Well, it helps -- they hurt for their parents.

A: Yeah, what for? What does it do now?

Q: It tells them who they were.

A: Remembering is important.

Q: Yes.

A: But remembering -- they hear enough about it, through all kinds of studying and

literature, etcetera.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

Q: But you heard from your own grandchildren, you heard from --

A: They wanted to have it, yes.

Q: They wanted to have it, so for them it's important.

A: Okay, so I f-- so I finally gave in.

Q: You finally gave in and -- and I think everybody's going to be grateful.

A: Yeah, but I don't think it's -- really I should have written something down, and --

Q: It's okay, it's okay. It is something for them --

A: Cause jumping from one point to another --

Q: You know, in oral histories, very often the dates are things people may not

remember, but the experiences, those are real. Those are ones that you went through.

And that is what -- that is what you pass on, the things that affected you and touched

you. And that's what we wanted to capture, those personal experiences. So thank

you.

A: I should have done better, but --

Q: You did fine. Thank you very much.

A: Thank you for coming and doing it.

Q: You're welcome.

A: L appreciate it, and by the way, the affair over there in Washington, D.C. was

very, very interesting.

Q: Oh, I'm glad you liked it.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: Very meaningful.

Q: The 20" anniversary events.

A: Yes, was very meaningful to me.

Q: Thank you for sharing that, and for letting me know.

A: And I didn't do anything medical, because I was afraid I can't come.

Q: Okay.

End of File Four

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Q: Okay, so let's add on a few thought -- final thoughts.

A: Yeah.

Q: Why is it that after so many years, you finally decided that you would tell your

story? Who prompted you to do so?

A: I was very lucky. I was married for 50 years, and I have three wonderful children,

six grandchildren and four great-grandchildren, and if-- they were the ones, and also

my -- my nieces" children -- both nieces -- and they were the ones who requested this

a long time ago. But I never wanted to do it. But when I was in Washington, D.C.,

at this ceremony, | realized then they are right, and I was wrong, and I owe it to them

to give that.

Q: It's a real gift. And thank you for doing so.

A: Does it make sense?

Q: Yes, perfect sense. Thank you very much.

A: Thank you.

Q: And this concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview

with Mrs. Alice Tyroler, on two thousand and -- May 8", 2013, in Queens, New

York.

A: Thank you very much.

Q: You're welcome.

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Interview with Alice Tyroler

May 8, 2013

A: And thank you for coming.

Q: You're welcome.

End of File Five Conclusion of Interview

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The interview is part of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's collection of oral testimonies. Information about access and usage rights can be found in the catalog record.