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ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton

JAN ARONSON

August 24, 2016

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Jan Aronson, taking place on August 24", 2016, in Los Angeles. Thank you again, for agreeing to be interviewed, we very much appreciate it.

A: You're welcome.

Q: Yeah. And so, before we jump in, I want to let you know I noticed all the beautiful paintings you have in your home. Have you been collecting art for a long time?

A: No.

Q: No?

A: Not really. I-- we've always had art.

Q: Do you have a favorite art style that you like?

A: We have a lot of art that friends did.

Q: Oh really? Wow.

A: So, that one is Sam Amato, who was a friend. You know, various -- Chagall was not a friend.

Q: Yes. Yeah, but they're just, they're so beautiful.

A: Thank you.

Q: I noticed them, and -- yes, ma'am. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 4 August 24, 2016

A: We don't have enough walls, I would have more.

Q: Just have whole walls of art, and --

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Yes, ma'am. Well, yeah, so we'll start -- we'll start the interview, and we'll start at the very beginning --

A: Okay.

Q: -- with your birthday, and you know, the pre-war years, and then we'll move chronologically from there.

A: Okay.

Q: So, yeah. Could you please tell us your birthday?

A: December 8", 1925.

Q: 1925. And where were you born?

A: I was born in Cologne, Germany.

Q: Did you have -- were you born with a different name?

A: Yes.

Q: And what was your name when you were born?

A: Hannaliese(ph), first.

Q: First. Okay. Did you always go by Hannaliese(ph), or did you have a nickname, or-- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

A: No. Changed when I came to the United States.

Q: What was Cologne like, back when you were born, and growing up?

A: Cologne was a very beautiful city on the Rhine. My parents were always very interested in art, so I was raised with it. Our house was very close to the Rhine, and my fa -- my father had a boat on the Rhine. We used to go on his boat. What else would you like to know? I left when I was 13.

Q: Okay.

A: So-

Q: Sure. Were your parents also from Cologne?

A: Yes, they were from the Rhineland, both of them.

Q: From the Rhineland, okay. And what were their names?

A: Herta and Eric f-u-r-s-t, Fiirst.

Q: And do you know --

A: With an umlaut.

Q: Umlaut, okay. And do you know when they were born?

A: No, I don't really know.

Q: That's okay.

A: What year, you mean? No, I don't.

Q: Yeah. That's okay. And so, they were from the Rhineland also -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

A: Right, right

Q: -- so, same area as Cologne. Was your father a soldier in World War I?

A: Yes.

Q: Do you know what rank he was, or what he did?

A: He was a~--an officer, but I don't know what rank.

Q: Was he --

A: And he was a proud German, that's what -- unfortunately, so --

Q: Do you know if he was drafted, or if he was a proud German, did he volunteer?

A: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if they had a draft then. That was the first World War.

Q: Yes, ma'am, yeah. Did he ever talk about his experiences?

A: Yes, a lot.

Q: Really?

A: It was very important to him.

Q: Really? What -- what stories do you remember, that he would tell you?

A: Not --I don't really know. I can't remember stories that he told, but all I remember is that he was really a proud German, and it was difficult for him to go through what he did go through later.

Q: So he was a very proud German, that was very, very important for him. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: Right.

Q: Do you know when your parents got married?

A: No. I think it was 1918, does that sound right? I'm not sure.

Q: End of the first World war, and --

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Yes, ma'am. What were they like? What were they -- their personalities like?

A: I don't know if you can ask a child that? You know, he th -- it varied. They were, you know, when they left -- they came to the United States, there were so many changes, that - my mother was a very nervous woman. That's -- I remember that, that she was anxious.

Q: A-Afterwards.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. Did your grandparents also live in Cologne?

A: Yes. They were also born in the Rhineland.

Q: Okay. And so you were able to see them a lot, and --

A: No.

Q: Oh?

A: They died -- excuse me -- before I was able to really know them.

Q: Okay. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson , August 24, 2016

A: So-

Q: Any aunts or uncles who also lived in the Rhineland?

A: Yes, I had aunts, and I had an uncle then, who lived in Berlin. So, you know, these are very -- memories that are hard, because I don't know, I don't remember that much, because I closed it off long time ago.

Q: That's okay. Just whatever you can remember, is great.

A: Yeah, okay.

Q: Yeah. Did you have any siblings?

A: Yes, two brothers.

Q: Two brothers. And what were their names?

A: Helmut and Huntz(ph).

Q: Helmut and Huntz(ph).

A: But they changed their names.

Q: After you -- yeah.

A: Yeah, Michael and Peter.

Q: So, very different from --

A: Yes.

Q: Yes. Were they older, or younger than you?

A: One older, one younger. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

Q: So you're the middle child?

A: Yes.

Q: Yes. Were you all very close?

A: No, we were separated so early, that we were not very close, you know.

Q: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you have any memories of playing games or anything, with them, before the war?

A: No, not really.

Q: No. Okay.

A: My older brother was sent to England very early, so I hardly knew him.

Q: Okay.

A: And my younger brother and I were very close.

Q: Okay. How much older was your older brother?

A: Four years older.

Q: Four years older. And your younger brother? How many years --

A: A year and a half younger.

Q: A year and a half. Okay. Did you always speak German at home?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you speak any other languages?

A: English. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Oh.

A: That's -- you know. But -- and I forgot my German very quickly, after I went to school, which, I still don't remember it.

Q: So, when you were at home, you spoke both English and German?

A: And German, right.

Q: Oh, interesting. Did your parents feel that it was important to learn English?

A: My father did. He learned English very early, and he spoke it very well.

Q: Okay.

A: So, you know. That they -- yeah, I think they assimilated very quickly.

Q: Okay. Was your family -- were they middle class, or well-off?

A: Upper middle class.

Q: Upper middle class. Had they been affected by the depression at all, you know?

A: I think my parents talked about, you know, the depression in the 30s, but I don't remember very much with it.

Q: Okay.

A: There wasn't enough to eat, this is what I do remember.

Q: In the -- in the years leading up to the --

A: We -- yeah.

Q: Was your family very religious? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: Not at all. Agnostic.

Q: Agnostic, okay. Had your -- were your grandparents agnostic as well, or Jewish --

A: I didn't know my -- that -- we were always Jews.

Q: Always Jews, mm-hm.

A: But that was more a--a-- how can I explain that? Actually, there -- there was mu --not much said about it, or I didn't have any, you know, recollection of a f-- of any religious upbringing, because they were agnostic. And they were very political.

That's one of the thing.

Q: Okay. So you knew you were Jewish, but --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- didn't celebrate any of the holidays, or --

A: Well, I really knew it in -- after 1937, when Jewish children could no longer go to school with Gentile children. And I then went to a Jewish private school, attached to the synagogue, but it was foreign to me, you know? And then, of course, as I became older, I became fanatically Jewish.

Q: Oh.

A: You know, I di--it was very important to me.

Q: Mm-hm. So you mentioned that your father was a very proud German.

A: Yes. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Would you say that he saw himself as German first, and then Jewish, or agnostic?

A: Yes.

Q: So you were very assimilated, very integrated in --

A: Right, right.

Q: -- into society, and -- and all that.

A: Right. He was -- you know, it -- businessman who was much admired in Cologne, which is the city where I come from. And he was very active in Cologne politics.

Q: And you -- you lived in a house by the Rhine?

A: Right.

Q: Could you tell us a little bit about the house, maybe, you know, how big it was, what did it look like, and --

A: Well, it's interesting, because we visited Cologne years ago, with the children, and it wasn't there any more, th -- it had been bombed, so I can't really -- I can only tell you what I remember, which was it, you know, typical European, three story house, near the Rhine. And that's all I remember.

Q: But you can see the --

A: [have a very selective memory, you know. There's some things I don't remember, because I guess I, you know, don't want to remember. So --

Q: That's 0 -- that's okay, whatever you remember. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, okay. What?

A2: Wasn't it across from the factory, the house?

A: Yeah, it was in that same block, the factory. Ma -- my father's factory. He was a manufacturer.

Q: So you have the house, the factory, both were near the Rhine?

A: In that same area, yeah.

Q: Okay, I see. Did your parents ever talk about life between the World Wars?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah? Maybe -- maybe immediate post-war Germany, what was it like right after?

A: They were very German -- my father was. My mother was not, but my father was very proud to have been in the army, and he was a -- I've forgotten what his rank was, but as a Jew though, he could no longer -- he did -- the rank could not be higher than sergeant, I think. I'm not quite sure of that.

Q: But he -- he advanced, but he --

A: Yeah, right. Yeah.

Q: -- only to a-- he could only advance to a point.

A: Yeah.

Q: Isee. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: But he talked a lot about the first World War.

Q: Mm-hm, very proud of his service.

A: Very proud of it, yeah.

Q: Yeah. Did they ever say what it was like in Germany right after the war, after Germany had lost?

A: Yeah, it was bad. I mean, th-they would -- they would talk about not having enough to eat, and being conquered. It was difficult for, you know, people. And I don't remember, you know, certain things that happened to them, but they did tell -- talk about it being very difficult.

Q: Very difficult period.

A: Right.

Q: Do you -- I know you were very young, but do you remember them ever talking about -- about Hitler, and his rise to power?

A: Oh, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: My mother was very -- ya -- well, they were both very affiliated with the university in Cologne. And so -- excuse me.

Q: That's 0 -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 6 August 24, 2016

A: They were very worried. Right at 1933, I remember them talking tha --- my mother wanting to leave Germany, and my father kept talking about it's blowing over, and it would be okay, and wanted to stay. He was a very proud German. Much good it did him.

Q: But he -- he believed that it would -- it was just a phase, it would --

A: Yeah, it was just a phase, right, exactly.

Q: -- you know, just -- yeah, just stick it out, wait and see.

A: And I remember many, many arguments. And then, in 1937, Jewish children could no longer go to school with Gentile children, so that's when I became a Jew, really.

Q: Yes, ma'am.

A: What?

A2: There is something that is important. You asked about my mother's family, and their life. Their life was -- my grandmother was an opera singer --

Q: Oh, wow.

A2: -- and also an artist, and had salons in their home. So it was a very -- they were very socially -- socially accepted, upper middle class family, and the factory that they owned was my grandmother's parents" factory. You might want to ask my mother more about what the factory made, and -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson "6 August 24, 2016

Q: Oh, absolutely, we're -- we're coming up on that, yeah.

A2: Okay.

Q: So you said Cologne was very beautiful.

A: Yes.

Q: Very -- do you remember maybe, how many people? Was it a large city back then?

A: It was a middle size city.

Q: Middle size city.

A: And it was 90 percent Catholic.

Q: Ninety percent, wow.

A: So, Nazism came rather late to Cologne. You know wha -- I remem -- it's just a very -- it-- it was bombed flat, but it was a very beautiful city. Had a very famous cathedral, and it was just a beautiful city.

Q: So, if 90 percent was non-Jewish --

A: Right.

Q: Was the other 10 percent Jewish, or were there other denominations?

A: I don't know if they were 10 percent.

Q: But within that 10 percent.

A: Withi -- yeah, within that 10 percent. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Okay, yeah.

A: It-- you know, the -- the predominant religion was cath -- Catholicism.

Q: Do you remember how big the Jewish community was?

A: No.

Q: Were there business partnerships, or marriages between Jews, and non-Jews?

A: Yes, my -- my father's sister married a non-Jew. That was the only one. Although they -- none of them were, you know, very -- they were not religious at all.

Q: Mm-hm, yeah.

A: So-

Q: Were there many shops, or other factories that were owned by Jewish people as well?

A: Oh, yeah.

Q: A lot. Did your parents shop at these, or was it kind of, you know, whatever was convenient?

A: Yeah, I don't really remember.

Q: How did you receive news about what was going on?

A: Well, like very many cities in Europe, there were kiosks where the newspapers were printed. And we found out lot about, you know, I don't remember any specific. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 6 August 24, 2016 I remember people being very worried -- Jews being very worried, and that's -- it's very hazy, you know?

Q: Mm-hm, yeah.

A: I don't know exactly what you want to know.

Q: I guess, did you have a radio?

A: Oh, yeah.

Q: Did you also hear about news that way --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and what was going on elsewhere?

A: Right, right.

Q: Radio, okay. Do you ever remember, I guess, you know, party leaders speaking on the radio, or --

A: Yes, ranting.

Q: Ranting, yes. Do you remember maybe a specific person, or just, you know, hearing these speeches, or rants?

A: No, just speeches, very -- you know.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: And a lot of anti-Semitism in the speeches. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: In the speeches. And did -- your family didn't -- wasn't very religious, but did you realize -- you realized that it was anti-Semitic at the time.

A: Oh yeah, oh yeah, no question.

Q: Yeah, yeah. Even as a--a young girl at the time?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because it -- I no longer went to school with non-Jewish children --

Q: Mm-hm, yeah.

A: -- you know, so we were separated.

Q: Yeah. Do you remember hearing about the events of the 1936 Olympics in Berlin?

A: You know, I don't remember whether I heard it then, or whether I hear all the -- the news, you know, later on. I remember -- what do I remember about that? Not really too much, so can't quite think of it right now.

Q: That's okay, that's okay. Yeah. So, did your family like listening to the radio, maybe going to the movies, plays, you know?

A: Yeah, well, you know, after 1937, I think, or maybe before, they no longer could go to theaters, you know. It -- they were really -- there was a real separation between Jews and Gentiles. So -- but you know, they were educated, so I learned very early ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016 about many, you know, things. I -- you know, you just have to re-ask me specific questions, because I --

Q: Sure, sure.

A: Okay.

Q: Did you have a favorite radio program that you would listen to?

A: No, no.

Q: Just a little bit of everything?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: I don't even remember listening, really, you know. I'm sure they listened, but I left when I was young, so -- what?

A2: The cathedral was -- it -- Mom was raised also by --

A: Oh, we had nursemaids, who were very Catholic, so they used to take me to the -- Cologne had a -- had a beautiful cathedral, one of the really beautiful cathedrals, and as a child, they used to take me, and I wished I weren't Jewish. You know, I loved the incense, I loved the theater, you know, even when I was a kid.

Q: Yeah, it's a -- it's a beautiful cathedral in -- inside, and --

A: Have you seen it?

Q: Yes, ma'am, yeah, yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, so you know.

Q: The outside and the inside.

A: And we lived very close to the cathedral.

Q: Yeah, so within walking distance, it sounds like.

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Yeah, wow. So they would take you there just to get out of the house a little bit, and --

A: Yeah, exactly.

Q: -- you came in and just, you know --

A: And that no s -- yeah, the --

Q: -- like, you know, the stained glass, and --

A: -- yeah, it was really like theater.

A2: She has a beautiful picture of it, in an ivory frame.

A: And old picture, yeah.

Q: That's great.

A: Okay.

Q: But so much so that you didn't want to be Jewish. You wished -- you wished you could come -- come to church every --

A: Yeah, absolutely. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Wow. You were so impressed, and --

A: Well, my parents were so agnostic, that I didn't have very much of a Jewish education or upbringing, until I left. S-So -- and then I really, you know, because it was the Jewish community in London that sponsored 10,000 children to leave. So I was one of those.

Q: So before these new laws start being passed in Germany, did you have both Jewish and non-Jewish friends?

A: A lot of non-Jewish. My father was in business in the carnival industry, which is very big in Cologne, like New Orleans. But you know, that kind of --

Q: Yeah, yeah. Red bun -- Rosenmontagger(ph), yeah.

A: So yeah, right, yeah.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: And so they owned -- they owned the -- a factory.

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Did it -- and it specialized in carnival?

A: They made costumes, and hats. That was -- and that was my grandfather's business, so --

Q: Mm-hm. And your father took over. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Do you remember, I guess, any -- any hats or elaborate costumes that --

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: The three of us, my brothers and I had the best costumes in Cologne, you know.

We ye -- I think there were still some pictures of that, of my brother Michael in an Indian outfit with feathers, the whole thing. It was a big deal. Cologne, you know, was -- they called it Fasching.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: So, yeah.

Q: And so you celebrated it with --

A: Right, exactly.

Q: -- the rest of the city, yeah.

A: And we were in parades --

Q: Oh, really.

A: -- when I was a kid.

Q: Yeah? So what -- what would you do in the parades?

A: Just be in it.

Q: Yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: Ido --I don't remember too much.

Q: Walk -- walk along.

A: Right.

Q: That's -- do you -- did you have a favorite costume for Fasching that -- one that sticks out, or --

A: I don't -- yeah, it was usually a costume of -- a di--I can't even explain. I don't know, I may have one. Do you have one? I think Lisa's looking for it.

Q: But you -- would your parents be in the parades also?

A: No, just the children.

Q: Just the children.

A: Oh, here we are.

Q: Oh, wow.

A: This is -- let's see what year that was. Nineteen -- carnival 1934, I think. Yeah.

Q: And every year, you and your -- your brothers would.

A: We had the very best, right.

Q: The best costumes. And so the factory was originally your grandfather's --

A: Right.

Q: -- and he was the one who -- who started the factory, and --

A: Right, right. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

Q: -- it had always made costumes, and --

A: Yes, yes, right.

Q: Oh, wow. So it was a--a long family tradition.

A: Right, and it was important to Cologne, you know.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: They were really very -- [technical interruption]

Q: Yeah, did your -- did your mother work as well?

A: No, I think she helped my father in the business sometimes, but not really.

Q: Let's see. What -- what did you and your friends do for fun?

A: Oh my gosh. You know, not having fun superseded having fun. I don't really remember too much. It had -- had to re -- had to do with school, you know, because we were separated.

Q: Mm-hm. Yeah, after.

A: The Jewish children were separated, so I don't -- you know, I don't really remember. I didn't -- I had dolls. I was the girl in the family. And I don't remember too much, but having fun.

Q: It's okay.

A2: Well, they used to go on the Rhine.

A: Yeah, well -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016 A2: The Klepper boats.

Q: Yeah, the -- the boat on the Rhine, and --

A: Right, we did that, yeah, as a family.

Q: Yeah, yeah. Did you like taking the boat out?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Did you -- what -- what kind of a boat was it?

A: It was a boat that -- it used to be called Klepper boat, that had to be assembled before you went on the Rhine. Do you have -- okay, and we also did camps, this is a f--my family.

Q: Oh, uh-huh. You'd go camping, and --

A: Yeah, my father was a big camper.

Q: Oh, okay. I guess that's also a very German --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- you know, be out in the wilderness, and --

A: He was everything, yeah, right, exactly.

Q: -- yes, yeah. And you would go as a whole family?

A: Yeah. Oh here in costume, and this is my class in London.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: Youre not interested in that. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 27 August 24, 2016

Q: No, yeah, we'll -- at --

A: This is carnival, 1934.

Q: Oh, okay. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And so we'll -- we'll zoom in on these at the end, and you can tell us a little bit more about them --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- after the interview. Did you belong to any clubs, outside of school, or --

A: No.

Q: No? Just kind of school and home?

A: Right.

Q: Yeah. What do you remember about Nazi youth groups, like the Hitler Youth, you know, Jungmadelbund, any of that?

A: Yeah, I remember the marching in front of our house in the street, and singing loud, patriotic songs. Really German.

Q: Did your non-Jewish friends join these groups?

A: Couldn't, after 1933.

Q: But, your non-Jewish friends?

A: Oh, my non-Jewish friend?

Q: Yes ma'am, yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: Well, you know, I went to -- I was -- went to a separ -- to segregated school, so I didn't have very many non-Jewish friends.

Q: After that, yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah, so you weren't -- but you remember seeing these -- these youth groups out, and --

A: Right, right.

Q: -- were they --

A: In uniform.

Q: In uniform? What -- what did they look like, do you remember?

A: Yeah, I do remember. The sort of like camouflage, and always had leather straps in-- on the uniform, I remember. But it's pretty hazy.

Q: Yeah. And that was --

A: [remember loud, loud singing, which scared me, when I was a child.

Q: Yeah. Did your parents ever talk about these groups?

A: Yeah, I'm sure they did, but I don't remember specifically. My father was sure it was just a -- it would blo -- all blow over, and my mother was very scared.

Q: Even back in the mid-30s, she was --

A: Yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Yeah. So, before -- before you had to go to the separate school, you went to elementary school --

A: Right, right.

Q: -- with the other children.

A: It was private elementary school.

Q: Private, okay. And in Germany, is it the Grundschule? That's what they call elementary school, or --

A: I don't remember.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: You remember more than I do. I've blocked a lot of it out.

A2: You're doing fine. You're doing great.

Q: Yeah, just, you know, whatever you can remember is -- is great, yeah.

A: Okay.

Q: Was this -- before you had to change schools, this private school, was it the same one your older brother attended?

A: Yes.

Q: And I'm --I guess your --

A: All three of us did.

Q: Yeah, your younger brother followed, yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016

A: Yeah.

Q: So it was a boys" and girls" school you had.

A: Right.

Q: Boys and girls in the class, yeah.

A: Oh, would you like to see a picture of my father and his boat?

Q: Sure, sure. And we can look at that at the end too, afterwards.

A: Where did you find this?

A2: Up in your envelopes, by your bed.

A: You're kidding.

Q: Oh great. So this -- these were the types of little boats you would take out on the --

A: Yeah, right, right.

Q: -- on the Rhine. Oh, I see it.

A: They're called Klepper boat.

Q: Yeah. So, it's almost like a kayak, kind of.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: And he was very good at it. That's a great picture.

Q: Yes, ma'am.

A: P've never seen this. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016 A2: Yeah, in your envelopes.

A: Huh. Okay.

Q: Let's see. So, I guess in -- in ?37, you have to -- to move schools?

A: Right, right.

Q: Mim-hm. And this was a--an all Jewish school?

A: Right. It -- it was -- it started -- it was attached to the synagogue in Cologne, and all the children from the Rhineland went there. They had to travel a lot in order to get to Cologne, you know, all the surrounding cities, because they could no longer go to school with Gentile children.

Q: Yeah. What was it like having to move, leave all of your friends at school, and completely --

A: Well, I went to England -- I was 12 -- by myself. That -- it was more superseded by being separated from my family, not so much --

Q: So-

A: And -- but the whole class in Cologne left, that we all went at the same time, the children that -- that -- the Jewish community in London got the children out.

Q: Mm-hm. And so you were only at this Jewish school in Cologne for a very brief time?

A: Yes, yeah. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson August 24, 2016

Q: Okay, okay.

A2: It had a director who was --

A: Yeah, he was killed on the way back. He -- he came with us to England, but then he left to get more children out, and he was killed then.

A2: And his name?

A: Klibunski(ph).

Q: So in "37 you have to change schools, there's more and more laws being passed that --

A: Right.

Q: Yeah. And you said your parents were very political, very involved?

A: Very political, right.

Q: Do you remember any conversations at this time about -- you said your parents argued a lot about --

A: A lot, about -- my mother wanted to leave, my father wanted to stay. So there were, you know --

Q: Mm-hm, yeah. Did any of your neighbors, or any of their friends, join the party?

A: No, I don't remember that.

Q: Just -- you m -- you mostly remember these -- yeah -- https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson %8 August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, you know, our next door neighbor was an obstetrician, and that's all I remember, that he, you know, was Jewish. And my mother's very good friend lived across the street, and they would talk to each other across the street, I remember that.

But, you know, everything is really hazy.

Q: Mm-hm. That's okay. What about Kristallnacht?

A: That wasn't very good. We -- my parents, and us three children out -- oh, my brother had already left for England --

Q: Oh, so we --

A: -- with neighbors across the street, who were not Jewish. And I remember the factory was very close to where we lived. And since it was a hat factory, there were mannequins that were just thrown into the street, which was very scary. I remember being in that house across the street, and watching all of that. The -- you know, Storm Troopers, all of that.

Q: So, the factory was close enough that --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- from you -- from your friend's house --

A: I could see, yeah.

Q: -- you could see them going in, and throwing the mannequins out, and --

A: Right, right. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

Q: -- and that.

A: Right.

Q: And so, was the factory completely destroyed?

A: Pretty much, yeah.

Q: How long did you stay at your friend's house?

A: You know, I don't remember. I don't remember. There are big holes in my memory, so --

Q: But long enough, until --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- maybe you didn't go home --

A: Right, right

Q: -- until the next day, or --

A: Right.

Q: Do you remember -- did your family go to the factory to see all the damage that happened?

A: Yeah. And that -- I don't think after that the k -- the -- you know, there -- there was time to leave. I know many arguments about that.

Q: Yeah. Were there any rumors about Kristallnacht before --

A: No. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson % August 24, 2016

Q: No? It was just out of the blue, and --

A: Out of the blue.

Q: Yeah. So, you were 12 years old --

A: Yes.

Q: -- at that time? Yeah. And, do you remember your -- your parents, what -- what they said after Kristallnacht?

A: No, but it became very important for us to leave, and you know, for them to send us out. Yeah, they were -- I don't remember, except that was scary, that whole year.

Q: Yeah. And you mentioned that your older brother had already left.

A: Yes, he went to art school in London.

Q: Art school, wow. And when did he leave?

A: I can't remember. He left before we did.

Q: Okay. So, before -- yeah, before all that. So he would have been 16, 17, and --

A: Yeah, every -- yeah, he was -- made a -- he was the only Jewish child in his class in Cologne, and he was made an example of, you know, by th -- by that time, the teachers were wearing uniforms with belts, you know, straps across the shoulder, and they would take off the belt and hit him. So that's when my parents sent him out, right away.

Q: Were -- were your teachers wearing uniforms as well? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson %deg August 24, 2016

A: No.

Q: It was the older children there?

A: Yeah.

Q: And, so they singled him out?

A: It really depended on the school, you know, whether they wore uniforms.

Q: Mm-hm. But they singled him out, because he was Jewish.

A: Yeah, because he was Jewish.

Q: Yeah. And it happened often enough that your parents said we ne --

A: Got very scared, yeah.

Q: And it was the -- an art school?

A: Yeah, in London, right.

Q: What -- what kind of art did he --

A: It was -- I don't really know exactly what kind of art, but he was always very gifted. He -- you know --

Q: Min-hm.

A: -- was a very good artist when he was young, very young.

Q: Was it difficult, him leaving?

A: No, because we were separated by four years, so no, I don't think so. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 7 August 24, 2016

Q: Mm-hm. Yeah. So, after Kristallnacht, your parents decided we -- we need to leave?

A: Yeah.

Q: What ha --

A: They -- oh, however, didn't leave until 1939.

Q: They stayed until --

A: Yeah, they stayed.

Q: Okay. But by this time your -- your parents are -- are still arguing about whether or not to leave, but --

A: I think no, I think they -- it was either that or die, so they left.

Q: Yeah. And you described it a little already, but could you say a little bit more about the process of the Kindertransport and who organized it, and -- and all of that?

A: Yeah. I think it was organized by -- excuse me -- by the schools, you know, because by that time the schools were separated, you know [indecipherable] and we sort of left by -- we used to have forms, you know [indecipherable] in Latin, and it was the three forms that were -- left for England at that time. I don't remember who really organized it, but I know the director of the school that I went to was very active in it. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson %8 August 24, 2016

Q: Did the planning --

A: It's kind of hard to remember.

Q: No, it's okay.

A: Yeah, okay.

Q: Did this planning start right after Kristallnacht?

A: Yes, pretty much.

Q: And your -- your one brother was already in London?

A: Right.

Q: What about -- was your brother included on this Kindertransport as well?

A: No.

Q: No?

A: He went -- he stayed with a family in London, wi -- before, I mean, no.

A2: But there was Michael.

Q: But -- your younger brother.

A: Yeah, my younger brother, no.

Q: Yes, ma'am.

A: He went to Belgium.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: And he left Belgium from there. My parents send us all out. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

Q: Mm-hm. And was there family in Belgium, or was it --

A: No, it wasn't, it was just families that took children.

Q: What was it like leaving home?

A: Hard, I remember. I can't really remember.

A2: Your parents saw you off at the platform.

A: Yeah, my mother did.

A2: Your mother?

A: I think both of them did, I don't know.

Q: But at this point you're --

A: But I didn't -- yeah, the -- the whole class went. So, I didn't know whether I would come back. I don't -- that's very hazy, but I remember being on the train.

Q: Mm-hm, and you're -- you're 12 or 13.

A: Yeah.

Q: Did you -- did you understand why you had to leave?

A: Yeah, I didn't really understand, but I was told, you know, that --

Q: Told that you had to go, and -- yeah. And you spoke English and German at home, so you already spoke English.

A: That was the first language I learned --

Q: Oh, your first lang -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

A: --in school.

Q: Oh, in school, all right.

A: Right.

Q: Yeah. So you -- you spoke -- you spoke English, and --

A: Badly, but I spoke it.

Q: Yeah.

A: And it was families, Jewish families in London, who took children in. And I remember my talking to the cook of the family. And she's really the one that taught me English.

Q: Oh wow.

A: We all -- also remember being sort of paraded in front of their friends, this is our refugee child. It wasn't very pleasant.

Q: Yeah. What did you bring with you, when you were leaving?

A: I don't really remember. I -- I think some clothes, but I don't remember.

Q: Could you bring a lot, or --

A: No, just one suitcase.

Q: One suitcase. Were you given -- I guess, were you given a list, told what to bring, or just kind of --

A: I don't remember. It's very hazy, you know. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: And so your -- your mother saw you off at the train station?

A: Yeah, my mother and father.

Q: Oh, your mother and father. Do you remember saying goodbye?

A: Yeah. I remember crying, that's all.

Q: And you were traveling with your whole class?

A: Right.

Q: Did you -- did you have adults, or chaperones that went with you?

A: I must have, but all of that is very hazy.

A2: Mr. Klabetski(ph).

A: I don't know whether he was on -- A2: The school director.

A: I don't know if he was on that.

Q: So these were -- were all children that you knew, and --

A: Right, the class.

Q: -- yeah, you had gone to school with, yeah. Where did you go from Cologne? Did you have any s --

A: From the Cologne to -- to Holland. Excuse me.

Q: How -- how long was the -- the train ride? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson % August 24, 2016

A: Not very we -- Cologne is very close to the border, the Dutch border, and the Belgian border.

Q: Did you know ahead of time that you would be going to the Netherlands, and then -- and then England, or -- how much -- I guess, how m --

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: Because -- excuse me -- | think my parents had to pay for all of that. I'm so sorry.

[coughing]

Q: No, that's okay. Would you like to take a break maybe, for a couple of minutes?

A: Yeah, I would.

Q: Okay, let's take a break. [break] All right, so we'll pick up where we left off. So [technical interruption] All right. So you're on the train to the Netherlands, and you were saying that your parents had to pay for everything ahead of time.

A: Yeah, they did.

Q: So you had some kind of idea about where you would be going, and when, and --

A: Yeah, I think we -- well, the entire class went at the same time, so yeah, we were prepared. But I didn't think -- I think as a child, I didn't think that would be forever, you know, that maybe I'd never see them again. It was like a trip.

Q: And how did you get to England, and the Netherlands? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: From -- by ship, by boat. I remember being very sick. It was -- the Channel is a tough -- you know, it's very -- you know, I think the boats were very -- they were -- it's not a large boat that goes across the Channel, so it would sha -- shake and rock and I always thought that I would never get sick, but I did. Lot of people throwing up.

Q: And how -- how long was -- did it take to get to England?

A: Not -- just four hours, I think.

Q: Oh, wow. And you're still with that same group from Cologne?

A: Right, right.

Q: Still all together, and -- and all of that.

A: And then the Jewish community in London bought a big house, like a mansion, and all the girls were in -- you know, billeted in that house. And there was one for boys, you know, children.

Q: And this is before you were -- were placed with a family, or --

A: No, first you went to the family, and then from there into this hostel, I guess they call it.

Q: Okay, so you didn't live with the family full time?

A: I did for a while, but I don't remember how long.

Q: Okay. Do you remember where in England you first went? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 4 August 24, 2016

A: London.

Q: London? Okay. You -- the ship went right into London, then?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: Ship went to -- I don't know, Dover, I think.

Q: Dover. And so what -- what happened when you first got off the ship?

A: We were greeted by the families who took us in. And -- and then the childr -- we were separated, you know, the classes were separated, and stayed with that family until we -- th-they bought a hostel, a -- they called it a hostel, a big house, with the girls and the boys, one for the girls and boys. And I think he -- most of us of the pi-- I think the parents came to England. I remember my parents went to Scotland, and I'm -- we all went to the United States from there.

Q: Okay. So, when you first arrive in London, you're placed with a family, then a hostel, and then eventually --

A: Right.

Q: Okay. Do you remember the name of the family that you sta --

A: Monk(ph).

Q: Monk(ph)?

A: [ll never forget that. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

Q: And were they a Jewish family?

A: Yes.

Q: Jewish. And they lived in London, with the other children from the Kindertransport?

A: Right.

Q: Was it one child per family?

A: Pretty much, yeah. And the con-congregation in London took this chil -- took the children -- you know, people from that congregation. It was strange to me because my parents were so agnostic, I didn't know anything very much, reli -- religiously.

And then I became absolutely fanatic, cause the rabbi in charge was this gorgeous man, I remember. And I was just old enough to pay attention.

Q: Did -- did this family speak any German?

A: No. And I learned English by talking to their cook. What they did is parade me in front of their friends, this is our refugee.

Q: So they were kind --

A: You know, I hated that, yeah.

Q: Yeah. Well -- well, I guess why did you -- why did you hate it?

A: I just didn't want to be on pr -- you know, parade, just to satisfy their generosity.

Q: So they were kind of almost putting on a show, you know? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, they di-- exactly, yeah.

Q: This is -- look at what we're doing.

A: Yeah.

Q: Oh, I see. I see. Did that happen often?

A: I don't remember, but it was -- when it did, it was not much fun.

Q: Yeah. So when you arrive, you have, you know, your school English, and what you had learned from your father.

A: But not, you know, conversational English. I learned that from the cook.

Q: Di-- and why -- why the cook? You just --

A: I--I don't know. I think I liked her, and she -- you know, I could talk to her.

Q: Did this family have any children?

A: I don't remember, you know? This is -- that part is so hazy for me right now.

Q: Yeah. Did you go to school there?

A: Yeah, in London, yes, until the war, and then we were evacuated to the Midlands, each class. And then I stayed with an English family that took -- I think they were paid by the government.

Q: What --

A: That was weird, cause they had no children, and that -- that was really weird.

Q: Oh, okay. What was school like in London? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: I don't really remember, I think it was just school.

Q: Was it --I mean, you're still learning the language, so --

A: Right.

Q: I mean, did that make school -- did you like going to school in England, or --

A: You know, I -- it's very hazy. I have no idea whether I liked it or not. But I had to speak it very quickly, you know, speak English very quickly.

Q: And were you able to pick it up quickly?

A: Yeah, pretty much.

Q: Did you like just England in general, when you were in London?

A: Yeah, I did. I did. I wer -- you know, there were -- it was a very weird time, because it was just the beginning of the war. So, we were evacuated, you know, with the English children. I mean, you know, I don't know what you want to know.

Q: I guess, do you have any specific memories from London, maybe you know, pe -- meeting people, or --

A: Yeah, I remember going to the shelters, you know, I remember it was just the beginning of the bombing of London. So, there was -- you know, it's all mixed up with being just pretty scared, you know, just --

Q: Mim-hm, yeah. Did you have any communication with your parents or brothers, while you were living in London? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *% August 24, 2016

A: Yes, because they went to a-- with my brother, who was already in England, my older brother. And yeah, you know, we communicated, until they left. And they left just -- just in time, in 1939, to cross the border. So --

Q: Were you -- did you visit your older brother a lot, or --

A: Yeah, I did, he sort of embarrassed me almost, at the time. I remember he's wearing a trench coat that was almost able to walk by itself cause it was so dirty.

And he smoked his pipe. And he was just 16, you know, so he was really --

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: So it was -- it was surprising to see him like that?

A: Yeah, well, it was embarrassing, because, you know, he was my brother and I di- didn't want the other kids to know that he was my brother.

Q: And I don't -- I don't remember if I asked you this, but your younger brother is in Belgium?

A: Yes.

Q: Why Belgium?

A: Because the Belgian -- it -- it se -- it depended on who were taking children in, and he was one of 10,000 children who went to Belgium. And then he went from Belgium to England, to meet all of us. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson >> August 24, 2016

Q: Okay.

A: [remember him coming off the plane with a violin. That was --

Q: So they -- they had a spot in Belgium for him --

A: Right.

Q: -- so your parents immediately --

A: He w -- he was with a family in Belgium.

Q: So -- so--

A: And he was French speaking after that, mostly, you know.

Q: Oh, yeah. So it was similar to what you were doing, what --

A: Yes, exactly

Q: -- placed with a family -- okay.

A: What was interesting in retrospect is that it was these little countries like Holland, Denmark, Belgium, that took the children in.

Q: Yeah.

A: You know.

Q: Yeah. Were you ever, you know, as the war starts getting closer, were you ever treated poorly, or differently because you were German?

A: No, tha-that was interesting, because I was evacuated with all the other English children, into families in the Midlands, who didn't have children. And it was, you ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016 know -- I was billeted with a girl that came from Poland, from the -- what's it? The no man's land between Germany and Poland, there was this strip of land where the refugees stayed.

Q: Si-Silesia, or --

A: I don't remember.

A2: [inaudible]

A: No, no, no, that was many years before. No, it's a-- the German -- the Germans shipped the Polish -- what were Polish Jews then, right into this strip between Germany and Poland. It was like -- called no man's land.

Q: Okay.

A: And this girl and I were, you know, together. She went to Israel, I waited for my parents.

Q: Okay. And this is when you were eva -- after you were evacuated that you --

A: Right.

Q: -- you met her. Okay. Were you learning about events in Germany, through newspapers, or radio?

A: Radio, I think, mostly --

Q: Yeah, yeah ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *t August 24, 2016

A: -- because we -- I remember sitting in the living room, around the radio, to listen to the news, so I, you know, knew what was going on.

Q: And you were communicating with your parents back in Germany. Did you hear anything from your aunts and uncles, that were still in the Rhineland, or Berlin?

A: No, you know, they -- I think all -- they all were wiped out. There were no relatives left. My father's sister lived in Berlin, and I think she -- I don't know, you know, I really did -- there wasn't anybody left, that's all I know.

Q: Yeah. Do you remember learning that Nazi Germany had invaded Poland?

A: Yes. Yeah, that was in London then.

Q: And you know, did you -- were you at school, and you heard afterwards, or --

A: You know, I can't remember. But I do remember that my parents were on the last train from Cologne to Holland.

Q: Mm-hm. And that -- this was around that time then --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- you know, the war -- the worst --

A: 1939.

Q: -- started. What did you think when you heard that the war had officially started?

A: Scared.

Q: Mm-hm. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

A: I can't tell you exactly what I thought, just scared.

Q: Do you remember the reactions of -- maybe your -- the family you were staying with, or teachers at school?

A: No, I don't really. I remember sitting around the radio, and listening to the news.

Q: Did anything in your life change at that point, or did you just keep going to school, and --

A: Yeah, and then that -- you know, that was integrated into the English -- how can I say? I was -- you know, I went to school with the children in London, and then the only difference was when we were evacuated, I was evacuated with a girl who later went to Israel, who came from Poland. So I learned about, you know, anti- Semitism from her. But it's all very -- it's hazy.

Q: Yeah. But as -- as --

A: And then we lost total track, you know, after she left.

Q: Yeah. Do you remember -- once the war had started, did -- were there any new restrictions, like were there blackouts, or rationing?

A: There were blackouts.

Q: Okay.

A: And I could -- we could hear the noise of the bombs, because England is very small. But -- and I do remember blackouts, that was -- and then we -- when we came ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *8 August 24, 2016 to the United States, I remember blackouts, too. You know, we -- as a matter of fact, I remember they wa -- we had shades, and when there were holes, my brother walking back and forth in this -- you know, and people thought we were -- since we were Germans, that we were signaling, you know.

Q: Really?

A: You know when --

Q: Mm-hm.

A: [indecipherable]

Q: Yeah. Did you use shades in England as well? Like --

A: I don't remember.

Q: Yeah. What about rationing, was that happening?

A: Yeah. It's -- I don't remember that either. I mean, remember it.

Q: Just that it was happening.

A: That it was happening. There were certain things we couldn't get, and yeah.

Q: Was -- was it enough to eat?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. It was enough.

A: Yeah, I don't remember being hungry.

Q: Was there any kind of, I guess, black market for goods that were hard to get? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson ~ August 24, 2016

A: I don't remember that.

Q: Let's see what else. When did the bombing of London begin?

A: Pretty -- the year 1930 -- deg39, I think it was.

Q: And it -- did this usually happen during the day, during the night?

A: Yeah, day and night.

Q: Day and night?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. Were you taught what to do in case of bombings?

A: Yeah, we had shelters.

Q: Di--- were there any -- was there some kind of announcement to like --

A: Oh, that there were --

Q: -- I guess what -- like, was there an official training in what to do in case of --

A: Yeah, the -- you know --

Q: Okay.

A: -- I think the whole populace was alerted to where to go, and you know, where the shelters were.

Q: Mm-hm. Do you remember how people knew?

A: No, I don't.

Q: Okay. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016

A: All I know is going there.

Q: But there were -- there were official procedures about, you know, where to go --

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: -- what to do, and -- yeah. So where -- where was the shelter that you would have to go to in London?

A: I don't remember, but I know it was close.

Q: It was close by?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: And the whole group, all the children, you know, went together.

Q: I-In London, or --

A: Yeah.

Q: Oh, so you -- you know, all the children, and all the --

A: In the -- yeah, in the hostel. That's what they called, you know, when the refugee children --

Q: Oh, so at this point in London, you -- you've moved in --

A: We were already in -- right.

Q: Okay, so you -- the families were kind of like a --

A: There was a stopgap. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016

Q: Yeah, you stayed there, and --

A: You know, they were tha -- greeted us, and we stayed there for a while.

Q: Oh, I see.

A: And then we went to the hostel.

Q: I see. Do you remember how long you stayed with the family?

A: No. Well, long enough. I didn't like them.

Q: Yeah.

A: So -- [liked their cook, that's all I remember. But, you know, it was not a pleasant experience.

Q: Was maybe a-- a few months, or --

A: Not that long.

Q: Not that long, okay.

A: You know, it wasn't that long.

Q: Okay. And were you continuing -- sorry to jump around a little bit, but when you moved to the hostel, did you continue at the same school that you had been going to?

A: Yes.

Q: Yeah.

A: Until we were all evacuated. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson *7 August 24, 2016

Q: Yeah. So the -- I guess the -- the only thing that changed was that you were staying somewhere else, but -- okay.

A: Yeah, then we -- you know, I stayed with a family that hadn't had any children, and I was th -- I had the roommate, who was a refugee from Poland, that's -- we lost total track.

Q: What was it like in this bomb shelter? Was it at the hostel?

A: No, it was -- you had to leave and go to the shelter.

Q: Okay.

A: It was a lot of people in a small area, and listening for the all clear to sound, so we could go back to -- it was pretty scary.

Q: And what did you do during the time that you were waiting?

A: I don't remember.

Q: So, it was crowded. Was it -- was it dark, was it --

A: No. It wa -- well, it was underground, you know. You know, it's very hazy.

Q: It's okay.

A: It was -- I think the whole experience was scary, so you --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- you know, just waited for the all clear. But you knew there were things going on outside that shelter. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

Q: Could you hear the bombing when you were in the shelter?

A: Yeah, you could hear.

Q: Do you --

A: She doesn't know what to make of all of this.

Q: Do you remember like how -- how often did you have to go to the shelter before you were finally evacuated? Was it every night?

A: Pretty much. You know, this is th -- it is hazy, cause I don't, you know --

Q: And so when -- when were you and the other children evacuated?

A: You know -- A2: You mean to the countryside?

Q: Min-hm.

A: It did at -- you know, there was a period that all the children in London, which is the story that has never been told, were evacuated. You know, thi-- that was an incredible thing, that they were -- you know, had -- all of them left London. And that was on one of those transports. And I do -- I don't even remember how all that happened, you know, it's all hazy.

Q: But you did, you were evacuated --

A: Yeah, we did, yeah.

Q: -- to -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: Midlands.

Q: -- to the Midlands.

A: To -- yeah.

Q: And you were placed with a family.

A: Yeah.

Q: Or, a couple with -- with no children.

A: Yeah.

Q: What was this new -- was it a city that you were in, or --

A: Yeah. I'm trying to-- Northampton.

Q: Northampton. What -- was it a -- a big city?

A: Middle, you know, an English, middle sized city.

Q: Mid-sized. Did you also go to school there?

A: Yeah.

Q: So what was it like, you know, for -- yet again, you're starting with a new family, a new school, how are you -- how was adjusting to this new --

A: You know, I don't really remember when I was two. I don't remember how I felt, because that's -- was with the other children, you know, that we had contact.

Q: Yeah.

A: So-- you know, it was just strange. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson degdeg August 24, 2016

Q: Yeah. Sa -- but, the other children you knew --

A: Yeah, right.

Q: -- were in the area, and so --

A: Right, right --

Q: -- that -- that must have been --

A: -- yeah, that was --

Q: -- yeah, some kind of --

A: -- comfort.

Q: -- yeah, yeah. And you're still learning English, still catching on, and -- and all of that.

A2: Were you still a Zionist, a big Zionist at that point?

A: No, I became -- you know, that's an interesting -- yeah. I wanted to go to Israel, I didn't want to come to United States. When my parents finally left, and you know, we were all going to the United States, I didn't want to go. I remember fighting that. That -- that period passed very quickly.

Q: Mm-hm. And why Israel?

A: Ibe -- you know, I was just interested in the -- you know, the -- saw the children that I knew went to Israel. We were all sort of Zionists, you know, 13 year old ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson t August 24, 2016 Zionists with -- we all knit sweaters, black sweaters with turtlenecks. It was a very strange [indecipherable] time.

Q: Did you belong to any --

A: Yeah, youth -- HaBonim.

Q: HaBonim?

A: Youth organization.

Q: And was that a Zionist --

A: Zionist.

Q: And what -- what would you do with the organization? You --

A: Just meet.

Q: Meet, and talk, and --

A: You know, that's so hazy. But I knew that even my parents finally decided to go to the United States when they came out, I didn't want to go, you know?

Q: You were so set on Israel then, yeah.

A: Yeah, absolutely.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. So at this point you're in Northampton, you know, with --

A: Yeah. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

Q: -- with these -- this youth organization, and school. Were you still able to talk, or communicate with your brothers and parents?

A: My brother, my older brother, yes. And --

Q: What --

A: --no--- my -- my parents finally left and went to Scotland, and, you know, prepare -- they -- the only way they ked -- could get out of Germany at that time was to put an ad -- my mother s -- went to college with a-- somebody in London, who put an ad in the paper for this couple, you know, as domestics. Which was hysterical because my mother was the worse housekeeper ever, and my father was, you know, I mean, the whole thing was very unrealistic. But he -- they did get a job in Scotland, and we were all able to come to the United States from there. They --

Q: So-

A: You know, that's -- this is hazy, how -- how they got out.

Q: But it sounds like they, through one of your mother's contacts in London --

A: Yeah, right.

Q: -- they place an ad in the paper --

A: Right.

Q: -- saying we want to work as domestics --

A: Yes. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *8 August 24, 2016

Q: -- you know. Who's hiring?

A: Yeah.

Q: And someone from Scotland ended up -- wow.

A: They worked together. I even remember their name, Farkeson(ph).

Q: Farkeson(ph).

A: It's so weird, what you remember, it's just really so weird.

Q: Mm-hm, yeah. But yeah, so they -- they were -- they made it to Scotland, and --

A: My mother was probably the world's worst cook, she got a job as a cook. And my father, because his army experience, was very good at polishing buttons, and things like that. I mean they -- the whole thing was ju -- really unreal. But they loved them, and when they found out that they were Jews who were only there to -- for a certain period of time, they were very, very upset, the people that they worked for.

Cause they were very good domestics. So you can imagine what the rest of that country was like.

Q: And yeah, so they -- your parents, who --

A: I mean, never had done anything, you know, like --

Q: Anything like that, yeah. But, they got there, and --

A: And my -- yeah, my mother never became a good cook. It was not her thing. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 4 August 24, 2016

Q: So you're in England, your parents are in Scotland. Your younger brother is still in Belgium, then?

A: Yes. I think the story is that he was one of the last planes out of germ -- out of Belgium, before Germany attacked Belgium.

Q: Oh, wow.

A: He was just this close to not making it.

Q: Mm-hm, yeah. At this point, had you heard anything, through the news, through other people, about the ghettos, or deportations, back in --

A: Hazily.

Q: Yeah. Maybe rumors --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- about those --

A: I think, you know, not -- not about the ghetto so much.

Q: Mm-hm, but about deportations?

A: Not about th -- no, not really.

Q: No?

A: You know? It was the -- I think we were so consumed with getting out of Europe, you know, that the other things are very hazy.

Q: So, you all were just so focused on -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson degdeg August 24, 2016

A: On the getting out.

Q: -- getting out --

A: Right.

Q: -- and -- and you weren't really hearing any -- anything yet, about these places, and --

A: No, not really, no.

Q: No, okay. Only later.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Let's see. And so, your parents are in Scotland. What was it like when you found out that your parents would be coming to pick you up?

A: You know, this -- that whole period is so hazy, I have no rem -- memory of how I reacted. Actually, I -- I didn't want to go to the United States. I -- at that time I was an adolescent who wanted to go to Israel.

Q: And so you heard they were coming to take you to the U.S, and --

A: Right.

Q: Okay. And where -- do you remember when and where you met your parents?

Did they come to Northampton, or --

A: You know -- yeah, I think so. I think so. No, they -- no, that's not true, they went to Scotland, and I don't know how we all got together to go to the United States. https://collections.ushmm.org Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection 66 Interview with Jan Aronson August 24, 2016

Q: Okay.

A: But by that time my brother had come from Belgium, and my other brother was already in London. So --

Q: And so you -- you met in London? Is -- is that -- or --

A: I think we met in Scotland.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: You know, because that's where they were.

Q: Was it -- was it hard leaving this new couple you were staying with, and --

A: Yeah, it was.

Q: -- your friends?

A: It was.

Q: Yeah.

A: [know -- I remember not wanting to go to the United States. I didn't want to. I wanted to go to Israel then. But, you know, I was an adolescent, that's not --

Q: Any time you were in England, or wa -- when your parents were in Scotland, were -- were you ever treated differently because you were German? Were any anti- German sentiment --

A: Not really, you know. I was -- in retrospect, I'm surprised, cause we stayed with this -- I stayed, you know, with this family that didn't have children. And -- and we ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg" August 24, 2016 spo -- all spoke German, we didn't speak English. So I - I'm surprised at that, even now, that they weren't --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- you know, put off by that.

Q: Do you know why your parents decided on the United States?

A: Well, they always did, because th -- my -- they had friends, and relatives, and they were able to get affidavits and visas to come to the United States.

Q: So they -- they already knew people there, and --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- you know, were able to get the papers --

A: Right.

Q: -- put together. How did you get to the United States?

A: By boat to England, and then by boat to the United States. It took a long time, because we -- the war had started, it was in 1939, and we crisscrossed, you know, every 10 minutes they change course. And everybody was very, very seasick, coming to the United States. It was really sickening.

Q: So yeah, because they're going back and forth, back --

A: Yeah, the U-boats, yeah.

Q: So it took even longer than it -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: Correct.

Q: -- than it normally would. And ever -- everyone was seasick, that was --

A: Everyone, hanging over the side of -- and we were on -- the ship, we came over on was a Cunard White Star ship, that transported troops back to the United States who had been in some kind of trouble, like you know, God knows what they did, but they were shipped back to the United States. I didn't know, I thought they were all very attractive young men.

Q: Were --

A: [have no idea what they did. I'm -- it wasn't good.

Q: Was it soldiers that had been injured, that were going --

A: No, soldiers that were in trouble --

Q: Oh.

A: --as far as, you know --

Q: Oh, like in trouble with the law? Oh.

A: Like -- y-yeah, right.

Q: Oh.

A: With the law.

Q: Do you have -- besides being sick, and seeing these handsome gentlemen, are there any other memories from -- from the trip over, or -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

A: No.

Q: -- just being with your family again, and --

A: Yeah, that was hard, actually, you know, that -- I'd already -- as an adolescent, I'd already separated, and to be back together, I wasn't too crazy about that. But that's -- you know, I -- I'm here, I adjusted, and that's all. I can't remember a lot of it.

Q: And what di -- what year is this, that you arrived in?

A: 1939, just before the war.

Q: But -- so this -- this is before the war started, that you got here? Or were you --

A: No, wait a minute, it had already started in Europe.

Q: Mm-hm, yes.

A: Before the war started in the United States.

Q: Yes, ma'am, yeah.

A: So that was deg44.

Q: Forty-one was Pearl Harbor, so it was -- it was before that.

A: Yeah, "42, I think we came to the United States.

Q: So, after Pearl Harbor.

A: Right, right.

Q: Okay. Where did you go in the United States? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: New York, for a year, and then came out here, because my older brother worked for a newspaper, then he was sent out here, and we all decided to come. And that was a newspaper, it was a very left-wing newspa-newspaper, called P.M. I don't know, it was defunct very soon after.

Q: And so again, you have to start over, with school, meeting new people.

A: Right.

Q: Was it different, adjusting to life in the U.S., versus in London, or in England?

A: No, it just -- I was just older and able to do it better than when I was much younger than --

Q: And at this point you've been speaking English for years. Did you -- did your family speak German or English at home?

A: German.

Q: German, yeah.

A: But interestingly enough, I speak no German.

Q: Today.

A: Not at all. I can understand some, but not, you know, I [indecipherable] it out.

It's an ugly language anyway. It is. Any guttural language is not very good.

Q: That is very guttural, yes. So I know you mentioned in England, there wasn't really any anti-German feelings. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson n August 24, 2016

A: No.

Q: What about in the U.S.?

A: No.

Q: No?

A: At least I wasn't, you know, aware of it.

Q: Did you tell people you were German?

A: I don't remember. No, I don't think so. I don't think so, because by that time, I really spoke English, you know, so --

Q: Yeah. Do you have -- A2: You changed your name.

A: That's true.

A2: To Jan.

Q: Yeah, so when -- when did you change your name?

A: When I was 21, and I could do anything I wanted to. I just didn't like -- Hannaliese(ph) was not an American name, so I wanted to just not be that.

Q: So this is after the war then, you know --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- changed it. Do you remember what it was like seeing American propaganda against Germany? Was that -- was that weird to see, or -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: No, that -- I was one of those people who was against Germany, so I didn't -- you know. I was never really -- after I came to the United States, I was no longer German, you know, I was --

Q: Did you and your family become citizens during, or after the war?

A: I don't remember what year. I became a citizen still on my parents" citizenship.

Q: Min-hm.

A: You know, I don't remember.

Q: It's okay.

A: I don't.

Q: Do you remember anything about the process of becoming a citizen?

A: Yeah, ye-yeah. I remember studying for it, and learning the -- you know, gosh -- A2: Bill of Rights?

A: No-Not just the Bill of Rights, but the Preambles, and then, you know, I mean -- A2: Constitution?

A: Yeah, th-they -- you know, I remember studying very, very hard, and it wasn't very hard at all, you know, I was -- there were examinations then, you have to see somebody. All I remember was he was very, very fat, the guy. I think he sat on two chairs. I was much more concerned about that, than what I knew and didn't know.

Q: So-- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson (r) August 24, 2016

A: Anyway, I -- I just -- I knew everything. You know, all the propositions.

Q: So, it was a lot of material, but you were able to cover it, and --

A: Yeah, a lot, yeah, right.

Q: Yeah.

A: Well, you never knew what you were going to be asked, so, you know, it was like any other exam.

Q: Was the exam -- you said it wasn't difficult, but --

A: No.

Q: -- was it a long exam? Did it --

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Was that the -- the only part, or the only thing you had to complete to become a citizen?

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. So once you got the test, you were --

A: Right.

Q: Got it. Okay. Were you -- were you happy to become a citizen, or is that just some --

A: You know, I don't remember whether I was happy or not. I remember that -- that was something I had to go through, and -- https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Mm-hm, just something you --

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: -- had to do. Do you -- or I'm---I'm sorry, did your family participate in any of the home front efforts during the war, like rationing, or victory gardens?

A: Yeah, well, everybody was rationing.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: Was there enough to eat?

A: Oh yeah. No, I never really -- you know, I don't think we suffered any problem at all, because you know, I don't know, by that time I think we ba -- become citizens, and I don't remember discrimination, or anything like that, if that's what you're asking.

Q: Yeah, so, enough to eat.

A: Yeah, no --

Q: Maybe like in England, you couldn't get some things, but, you know.

A: Yeah, what ti -- you just didn't, that's all, it's not --

Q: Yeah, you just didn't.

A2: Your parents got jobs.

A: Well, the bo -- what do you mean? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson (r) August 24, 2016 A2: Your parents got jobs when you came to California --

A: Yeah.

A2: -- in the factory.

A: My father did.

Q: Yeah, so wa --

A: Yeah, well, you know, my father exported when -- from his business in Cologne, and he got a job to -- from people that he oc -- exported to.

Q: Oh, so --

A: So, you know, there was no --

Q: So these were contacts that he made by --

A: -- problem. Right, exactly, he had already --

Q: Okay. So, was it also -- was it also textile, or costume factory?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: He actually worked -- worked in the factory, and you know, helped make the costumes, or --

A: I don't remember hu -- what he did, actually.

A2: Well, he went from a leadership position in Germany, to a [indecipherable]

A: To fa-- working for the people that he --

Q: Actually working -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, right.

Q: What about your mom, did she also get a job?

A: Yes, she got a job as a domestic; which was hysterical, because she was a terrible housekeeper; for a very short time.

Q: Mm-hm. So, similar to what --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- well, I guess she was a cook in Scotland, but now she was a--

A: Yeah, right.

A2: And you got a job.

A: No, that's later.

Q: So you and your -- your o -- your older brother has a job at a newspaper.

A: Right.

Q: But you and your younger brother are still in school.

A: Right.

Q: And when -- when did you finish school?

A: You mean, what year?

Q: Yeah, or -- you know, was it during the war, or --

A: Gee, I don't remember whether there was still war. You know, I don't remember.

Q: But you got your diploma, and -- ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

A: Right, and started working.

Q: So what -- what was life like in general, in -- immediately following the war?

Were people celebrating the end of the war, and you know, what -- what was the general feeling?

A: You know, that's very hazy, I have -- I don't remember.

Q: That's okay. Do you remember any celebrations when the war ended in Europe, and then when it ended in the Pacific?

A: Yeah, I remembered, you know, no celebrations, but -- yeah. You know, there were a lot of English soldiers in the United States, and I -- I-- 1 remember being in -- in the USO, and you know, and dating. But I don't remember any celebrations at all.

Q: Just that it had ended, and you know, it's over.

A: Yeah.

Q: Did refugees become -- did other refugees and survivors start coming into the US.?

A: I don't know. Yeah, I think so, but I don't, you know, I don't really remember that period, and how involved I was, cause I was also busy being an adolescent, so I don't know exactly, you know. Can't remember. As soon as you leave, I'll remember everything. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson % August 24, 2016

Q: We can always talk on the phone, if you know, you want to add things. When did you first learn about the concentration camps, and killing centers? Maybe the names Auschwitz, or Treblinka.

A: Yeah, th -- much later.

Q: Much later, after the war?

A: Yeah, right. No, I remember there were concentration camps, but I don't -- it's very hazy when I remem -- when I was conscious of it. I was too busy, you know, being integrated into the United States to be too concerned. I was an adolescent, you know, so --

Q: Just focusing on adjusting, you know.

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Q: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, what did -- what kind of job did you get, after you had finished school?

A: I thought I was a writer, and I became a publicist, they called them junior publicists, and worked for Warner Brothers.

Q: Wow.

A: You know, it was --

Q: Did you enjoy that?

A: Yeah. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson >> August 24, 2016

Q: So what's -- what kind of things would you do, as a publicist?

A: Lused to plant lies into the paper, which [indecipherable]. You know, made up stories, that's what my job, about various people, or whatever, it was -- you know. In those days, when you started, you had to go through certain training, you know. Not really training, but you know, you first started writing little scripts, and you know.

Q: Yeah, then slowly advance, and --

A: Yeah, right, exactly.

Q: Yeah, yeah. So when planting stories, was this to -- to make the studio look good, or--

A: Yeah, right, and they're still doing that. I mean, not the studios, but the people mostly, you know, the actors, actresses, directors, or whatever, you -- just as long as you get their name into the paper.

Q: Just kind of spin it, make it look good, and -- yeah.

A: Right, yeah.

Q: Did you work at any other jobs, or was this your --

A: No, that was the only job.

Q: That was your job.

A: That's -- I got married very young.

Q: Yeah, so when -- when did you meet your husband? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016

A: Oh, God. You mean the year?

Q: Or just, you know, your -- when you were working, and -- and all.

A: No, I don't -- what is that? Oh my God. Where did you find these? That's hysterical.

Q: Is this you right when you came over, or --

A: That's me. No, that's --

Q: Oh.

A: That was already working [indecipherable] A2: Honeymoon.

Q: Oh.

A: Oh, was this the honeymoon? Yeah, it was. I don't know where you found all of these. Okay.

Q: Is your husband American, or was he German as well?

A: Born in Brooklyn.

Q: Born in Brooklyn. American.

A: Yeah, well, you can call it American.

Q: What was his experiences during the war? Was di-- was he in the military?

A: No.

Q: No. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson t August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, after. During the Korean War.

Q: During the Korean War. But during World War II, he was not?

A: No.

Q: When did you get married?

A: 1948.

Q: Yeah, so that's -- yeah, very close after the end of the war. And he was living in Los Angeles, too?

A: He was interning.

Q: Interning.

A: At Cedars of Lebanon.

Q: And did you all meet through friends, or --

A: How did we meet? I think so.

A2: Through the hospital cafeteria.

A: Oh, right. I di--I took a job at Cedars, and he was interning at Cedars, that's how we met.

A2: And he approached her during lunch.

A: You don't want to hear all of that.

A2: Yeah.

A: You do? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016 A2: It's a nice story, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: He approached me and said, I'm going to call you tonight. But he didn't ask me for my phone number, so I don't -- still don't know how he got it.

Q: How he got it.

A: And he did call, as you can s -- as you can see.

Q: Yeah. So he just walked out, said I'm calling you --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and that was it.

A: That's right. Well, in those days, you know, there were interns in the hospitals.

A2: There are now, too.

A: Are there still?

Q: So he was interning to be a doctor?

A: He was a doctor already.

Q: Oh.

A: He was an intern after he became a doctor.

Q: Oh, I see, I see. And you got married in "48. So what was -- what was it like after you got married? Did you continue working?

A: I did for a year. Let's see, then, you know, Lisa. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson a August 24, 2016 A2: No, they got married very quickly.

A: No, we only knew each other three weeks before we were married.

Q: Really? Three weeks [indecipherable]

A: Well, he was going to intern at -- oh ye -- residency at the Menninger Clinic in Kansas.

Q: Oh, okay.

A: And, so it was a very -- decision very quickly to go with him. And that's where we were when Lisa was born.

Q: So you met, got married three weeks later, and then moved to Kansas.

A: Yeah. Yes, right.

Q: How long did you live in Kansas?

A: Five years, I think.

Q: And -- yeah, so how many -- how many children did you have?

A: Three.

Q: Three.

A: They were all 18 months apart. There was nothing else to do in Topeka, Kansas.

Q: We have Lisa, do you have a-- do you have other daughters, a s --

A: Helen and Ruth, three.

Q: All daughters. And did you ever speak German at home, or all -- ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson = August 24, 2016

A: No.

Q: -- only English, after --

A: Yeah.

Q: English. How much about your experiences did you tell your husband, and later your children?

A: I think they all, you know -- I don't know. I just -- I didn't tell you, just in normal conversation. And they knew my parents, you know, so -- and my brothers. You know, I th -- I don't know when you found out that I was -- A2: Hm. Good question. Probably I took interest in it when I was early adolescent, took interest in your background.

A: I think it just became part of our family history, you know. We didn't sit down and talk about it, but when you got older, we did.

Q: Maybe bits and pieces.

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Here and there --

A: Right.

Q: -- and then -- yeah. And you mentioned at the very beginning that you'd been back -- you've been back to Germany? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson a August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, we di-- we went to Europe with the children, because it was time that they found out where their mother came from. So we went to Cologne. And it's really kind of a funny da -- story, when we stayed in a hotel in Cologne, which was where I was from. And we went to see where -- the house I was born in, and my parents were born in, you know, in Europe you -- that's what you do, you stay in the --

Q: Yeah.

A: And the house was no longer there, and the street was no longer there. And I remember getting -- going back to the hotel, and the clerk at the hotel was sort of rubbing his hands, and what did you think about, you know, where you were from.

And my husband said, we went -- we -- we -- the street wasn't there, and the house wasn't there, when we went to look for it. And he sort of rubbed his hands and said, this is what the English did to us by night, and the Americans by day. And it was Cologne flattened, and -- and I remember my husband handing back the photograph and saying, fantastic, precision bombing. And we left, right after that. So, that was our experience in Germany.

Q: Did you go back to the cathedral?

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah? What was it like, after -- no.

A: Was standing. No bombs had hit it. That was really fantastic, precision bombing. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

Q: Was it --

A: I think I have a picture of it somewhere.

Q: Was it nice to be back inside the cathedral that you had visited as a child, or all those -- you know, the fond memories.

A: I don't really remember. It was sort of overwhelming. It was a -- it's a very beautiful cathedral, one of the big, you know, European cathedrals. No, I jus -- I remember going with the housekeeper, and the maids, and the -- to services on Sundays.

Q: Mm-hm, yeah.

A: In the cathedral. And I always remember the smell of the incense, and -- to this day, I can cal -- remember that.

Q: Yeah?

A: That was nice, actually.

Q: I guess what -- what is your life like now, your --

A: Very comfortable.

Q: Very comfortable.

A: What would -- exactly would you like to know?

Q: I guess just a little bit about your life now. Do you -- do you talk about your experiences often? ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson "7 August 24, 2016

A: No, not often.

Q: Do you think about them often?

A: Not really. Not really.

A2: Well, a little bit, with the present political climate.

A: Oh well, yeah. Not really, Lisa.

A2: But you listen to the radio.

A: Yeah, I do. I mean, I'm interested in politics, so that's -- I think what part of it is, my fa-- my family, my mother and father and brothers, all were very interested in politics. So I still am. And get mad.

Q: Did your parents and brothers all stay in California?

A: We went to New York first, for a year, and then came, yeah.

Q: So, everyone stayed.

A: Right.

Q: You moved to Kansas, and then came back.

A: Right, right.

Q: Did you get to see a lot of each other?

A: Yeah.

A2: Well, Michael was in the Peace Corps for years, away. He worked, your brother ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson 8 August 24, 2016

A: Actually, all of them did.

A2: They were all away.

A: Yeah, yeah. We came back and forth, I think. I mean -- A2: Michael and Shirley were Peace Corps directors, that was their profession.

A: I know, but -- A2: All of -- they were never -- they were --

A: Well, they -- did you ask -- no, they didn't stay here, they all had professions away, SO --

Q: Oh, okay, so you got to see each other --

A: Right.

Q: -- you know, once in a while, whenever it -- the timing worked out, and --

A: Right, right, exactly.

Q: -- and all of that. Have you ever -- do you belong to any survivor groups, or anything like that?

A: No.

A2: The Kindertransport Association.

A: I don't really, Lisa, I'm not really involved.

A2: You're a subscribing member. You subscribe to their newsletter. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson deg August 24, 2016

A: Yeah, but that's it. I mean, that's -- no. I don't even remember, I don't have friends who -- you're the only one who pursued it a little bit. You know, I just -- I think part of it is because I was an adolescent, and I -- it was more important for me to, you know, disappear into the community. So --

Q: To integrate, and --

A: Right, exactly.

Q: Yeah. Is there anything you wish people knew, about living in Germany, or in England, during the times that you did?

A: Yeah. It's very foreign to most people. They don't -- you know, my age, do not remember any of that. So it's like, you know, that new experience, to tell them about it, but I da -- hardly ever do, you know, talk about it.

Q: And why is that?

A: I don't know. Because it is -- it's not something people have experienced, and it's hard to, you know, tell them about that time.

Q: Yeah. Is there anything we haven't talked about, that you would like to add? Any -- anything we didn't cover, in the rest of the interview?

A: No, I don't think so. I'm sure I will remember the minute you walk out, but no, not really. Not really. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Jan Aronson "" August 24, 2016

Q: Yeah. So I know we'll -- we'll show your pictures, after we've done with -- after we're done with the interview, and you know, you can tell us what's going on in each one. But if--if there's nothing you want to add, we can --

A: Yeah, I -- yeah, I'm interested in what you are interviewing for. What -- what you --are you interviewing a lot of people who -- I don't know what --

Q: Me specifically, or the -- the museum?

A: Yeah, all of you. The museum.

Q: So, the oral history branch of the museum is trying to interview as many people as possible.

A: Who are still alive.

Q: Yes. We want to collect as many interviews, describing different experiences as possible, so that we can learn more about --

A: Okay.

Q: -- about the Holocaust and what -- what happened. So this will be a valuable addition.

A: Yeah, it's interesting.

Q: Yes, ma'am.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. So if there's -- there's nothing more to add, we'll -- we'll finish up. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson * August 24, 2016

A: I'm trying to think of what I could ... no, I think -- I think my experiences are my age, if there are people that you interview, will have had the same experiences. It was very important for me as an adolescent, to be integrated into the -- and not to feel like a refugee, with that -- you know, I'm quoting that. It's a special kind of feeling.

Q: Yeah.

A: And I haven't had that for a long time. So -- anything you can add, I would answer.

Q: I think we -- we got my questions.

A: Okay.

Q: So, yeah.

A: ""m not a font of experiences. I got married very young, and -- trying to think what I can add. I really can't.

Q: And if you think of other things, we can always record over the phone, in addition to the interview.

A: Oh yeah, it -- I probably -- as I said, as soon as you walk out, I'll remember a lot more.

Q: Yeah. So we can -- we can always do that.

A: Yeah, we can. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Yes, ma'am. So this concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Jan Aronson, on August 24", 2016. [break]

Q: So who is this photo of, Miss Aronson?

A: My father, in the first World War.

Q: So he had been an officer in --

A: German army.

Q: Yeah.

A: Oh my God. That's my father, with his boat, on the Rhine.

Q: So these are the kind of boats you would take out on the Rhine?

A: Right.

Q: Peter with his pipe, that you were talking about.

A: That's right.

Q: Who is in this photo?

A: My brother Peter.

Q: Your older brother who --

A: Older brother.

Q: -- was sent ahead to -- to London.

A: Right.

Q: Who's this -- who is this picture? ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *8 August 24, 2016

A: My brother. Younger brother.

Q: And his name?

A: Ho -- his name is Michael.

Q: Is this in New York, or in California?

A: This is in California, I think.

Q: Okay.

A: This is our family camping; my father, and my brothers, and mys --

Q: So, camping in Germany with -- with your two brothers and your father?

A: Yes.

Q: Where is it at, can't find it. So small.

A: Yeah, it is tiny.

Q: And did you go camping during the summers?

A: Yeah, I think so, yes.

Q: Who's -- do you know who is in the picture, can you see? Is that your --

A: That's my father -- I can't see -- and the three of us.

Q: And you're the one on the far right.

A: My brothers -- no --I am?

Q: Yeah.

A: Okay, I am. I can't see it. ontactrefieannedjustanmiang er hither btemelortabnattfiexaliaton Interview with Jan Aronson " August 24, 2016

Q: Okay.

A: It's really tiny.

Q: You're getting smaller.

A: [know. Thirty something

Q: Thirty-four. What does that say?

A: 1934, Carnivale.

Q: These are some of the costumes there.

A: Yeah, these are the best costumes.

Q: Costumes, the best costumes [inaudible]. And every year you would be in the parade?

A: Yeah, right.

Q: Your brother, and -- with your two brothers.

A: This is a--in London, 1939. I can't remember -- it's a -- it's a class, but I don't remember, whether this is the school I went to, or what.

Q: London, May 1939. There you are in the back row.

A: Tam?

Q: Mm-hm, the tallest.

A: Oh, that's right. I am the tallest.

Q: School in -- school in London, 1939. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson "deg August 24, 2016

A: This is my father, my mother and I think that's Peter's first wife, and me.

Q: Where? In America?

A: Yeah.

Q: Is this you in California?

A: You know, I don't know.

Q: Yeah, it must be California.

A: Where'd you find all of that?

A2: Your -- beside your bed.

A: Oh da-- my mother -- whoops, excuse me. This is my mother and the three of us.

Q: Your mother and your -- you and your two brothers?

A: Yeah.

Q: This is when they've been in America a long time, they've established their families.

A: My brother with his African art. That's me on my honeymoon. It's a weird picture.

Q: It's a great picture. You were 23 when you got married?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: That's my brother and I, my younger brother and I. ontectnetbnancedjushetnney for father Hlonmalberabouttfiseetecion Interview with Jan Aronson *deg August 24, 2016

Q: Who she had such a good relationship with.

A: Right.

Q: Was this in Germany, or --

A: I don't know where that is. It's on a pile of lumber, wherever that is.

Q: Yes, it's Germany. You were younger then.

A2: It's her mother's passport, with the Nazi stamp.

A: Yeah.

A2: We have to find yours, Mom, we must find it.

A: I think [indecipherable] lost it.

A2: Iknow.

Q: So this was the passport she used to get to Scotland?

A: Yes.

Q: Let's see.

A: See co -- kern -- Cologne.

Q: Immigration visa to Scotland. This is for Scotland. It's hard to hold -- hold it.

A2: You want that, as well?

Q: Sure, might as well get it.

A: She's got the big J.

A2: Right, J for Jew. Juden. https://collections.ushmm.org Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection 97 Interview with Jan Aronson August 24, 2016

Q: Oh, really?

A2: Mm-hm, J for Juden. And it's a Nazi, you know, can you imagine carrying a passport like that? Trump, t.

Q: Okay.

Conclusion of Interview