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Interview with Rose Warner July 15, 1999 Beginning Tape One, Side A

Q: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, Jeff and Toby Herr collection. This is an interview with Rose Warner, conducted by Regina Baier, on July 15", 1999, in Mrs. Warner's home. This is a follow up interview to a USHMM videotaped interview, conducted with Mrs. Warner on September 12" -- oops.

A: "90 --

Q: I think it was 1994.

A: Four -- deg94

Q: Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm -- September 12", 1994. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum gratefully acknowledges Jeff and Toby Herr for making this interview possible. This is tape number one, side A. So -- and my first question is what is your full name, give us all your names, your full name, and when were you born, and where?

A: I was born -- Iam Rose. My name, that's f -- after my husband, but my maiden name was Luft, L-u-f-t. And then I -- I married, and my -- my name and my children's name are Szyjewicz, S-z-y-j-e-w-i-c-z. Very hard to pronounce, a -- but that's a Polish name. And then I married a second time, in -- in -- in Los Angeles in 1970 -- deg70, and in Vienna annulled the marriage after a year, and -- but I carry the second husband's name because the other one was very hard to pronounce, so I http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 3 changed the name, not the -- nothing else, not because of anything else. So I keep that name. And I was born in Poland, in a -- in a c-city near la -- Lublin. It was -- is Zamusht, and -- and I was the middle daughter, sister, ar -- mine two sisters and I am there in the middle. And I was left after the war, and my father -- with my father and brother, but we were -- we didn't know about each other. My father was as a Gentile in L'viv -- Lemberg, and my brother was there too, Oss Bridotsky, and an -- an -- on Irish paper, and I found them after a year and a half after the war, through friends.

Q: Before we go on, |-let me just say that you have been through a lot of different places. First you survived the ghetto in your hometown?

A: Yeah.

Q: That's where your first little girl died, Margaret.

A: Yeah.

Q: Then you went to the concentration camp in Poland, Majdanek?

A: Mm-hm

Q: And then you survived two years, almost, of Auschwitz-Birkenau?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: And then came -- also in Poland, and then came Ravensbriick, for a short time in Germany --

A: Yeah.

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Q: And after that --

A: Meyerhoff

Q: [indecipherable] Meyerhoff, that was a sub -- subcamp, I believe of rosen -- of Ravensbriick, also in Germany.

A: Yes. For a -- over a year, I was there.

Q: Yes, it was for mor -- for over a year. What -- when y -- when you think about this, and -- what -- what -- what do you think got you --

A: I need --

Q: Yeah? You need your glasses? Okay. We'll just stop before I ask the question --

A: Yeah.

Q: We'll just stop for one second. So we just got an -- a tissue. So, my -- my qu -- my first question is that -- what do you think got you through all of this?

A: God. I don't know. I think you had to be -- or God, or lucky, or my parents, my mother, I don't know. Because she came to me, I think you s -- you saw, in -- in my dream, and -- and -- and she was taking care of me. She didn't let me run, and she said, "Because you are going to get killed. Just wait, and -- and do what they tell you to do." And I -- maybe she was my angel, watching over me, because I was -- you know, like you see, I'm small, and I was very thin that I -- I -- I -- and I -- ifI told somebody that I was married and I had a child, they didn't believe. Because you know, like when you see a big, strong person, and he went through hell, maybe http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 5 he was strong. I wasn't strong, and I -- now I'm tough. I wasn't tough that time, but somehow -- you know with friends, they helped me, she made from garbage peels with sand, soups, and -- and a friend of mine, and she woke me up to -- to eat it.

You know, that -- because I wasn't that organizer, to know how to survive. But somehow I survived.

Q: Did you have a strong will to survive?

A: No. Not at all, I just had a -- had a wish, that I had three uncles in the United States, and I said maybe someday I go to America. And I had a wish to die, or to live, it didn't matter. To -- why don't other countries bombard this -- this hell, to kill us all, but that w-would be to save our misery. But nobody came, and nobody bombed our -- bombard our -- our c -- camps. And maybe I -- we -- that hope that somebody will come and kill us, maybe that kept me alive, because you know, I saw how my girlfriends were dying of -- I -- you know what durpol is?

Q: Yeah, it's diarrhea.

A: Diarrhea. And -- and they -- they were dying of malaria, and -- and a -- I don't know, I didn't have diarrhea, because I was constipated before the war, so I had -- th -- I-I survived. So that's -- that's all what -- I saw how they dying, in the -- in the mud, in the dirt, and how they throw those bodies on those wagons, and -- or in taking them to the -- to the con -- to the gas chambers. So I wished not to be throw USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 6 in like this, because my little girl was throw in like this, and I never know where she's buried, if --

Q: So what happened when you were really -- when you were finally liberated?

[indecipherable]

A: When I --

Q: Wh-Where were you --

A: In ma -- in Meyerhof. They -- they -- you know, we were from one camp to the other, we were sended. And then I wind up in Meyerhof, and when I came to Meyerhof, the -- the sh -- the shtuber -- the -- the ous -- our -- ous -- what do you call it, the offsagerand, the -- the -- the --

Q: The guards [indecipherable]

A: The ga -- no, the -- the most -- she was the boss over the women.

Q: The SS woman?

A: Yeah, the SS woman. She was looking for somebody to -- for a beautician, and I was very good, you know, with what? With fingers, to make those wave for the fing -- what -- water and fingers, and I used to --

Q: It's a --

A: -- know how -- no, just --

Q: [indecipherable]

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A: -- just water, and with my fingers. And I used to make the waves that way. The children, the -- the girls, we didn't have hair, but whatever grew back, I used to -- to do that, you know, put the -- so they said, one girl said, "I know who can do that.

She can do." And she took me [indecipherable] beautician. Just with wa -- cold water, and -- and -- and fingers, that's all. So she put me to the shell command -- shell coo -- couran. She's -- she -- kitchen.

Q: To the kitchen, yes.

A: Yeah. Ah -- to -- to peel potatoes, but she didn't like my hands, how they looked, so she said, I am going to make you a cook, because you are working for my hair, and I want your hands to be clean. So that's what I di -- I became a c -- a cook.

What is the cook? Just to throw whatever they gave you, the -- that horse's meat, and th-the -- and the bones, and the -- the bad leaves of cabbage, and what they threw out, and -- and that was the soup. And -- and a -- and a margar -- margarine, you know? That's all. So -- but it was I was a c -- I was a cook. And -- and the hands weren't so bad. So the -- sometimes the oafs -- alfsarins ask the -- the block -- the -- the -- the -- not the block, the -- the a -- she was the head of the --

Q: Of the barrack?

A: No, of the whole -- of the whole camp. So they ask her if they -- I ca -- can come to them. And it wa -- a few of them was very nice, because they weren't SS women, they were women who used to work in factories, German women, factory women, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 8 because they didn't have enough people to watch so many -- so many concentration camps. So they used to ask her a favor, to lend me to them, they -- they wanted me to like -- to clean the house, and to make the hair. So she sometimes said okay. So I had a few very nice ones. She used -- I don't remember her name. She used to say, "Lie down on my bed, and I'm going to lie near you, and tell me about your life." And she was very nice. And another one was the alfsarin of the kitchen, and she used to say to me, "E -- are you going to kill me after the war is ended?" And I said, "No, you my angel." You -- she -- she used to give me a little margarine, and a -- and -- and she -- and she knew I| have a little boy, not mine. A doctor's wife was there, the doctor was killed already and they were doctor and she had the little boy, and the name, his name was Olish Umshwike. They were from lot -- from Lemberg, and -- and he was the only child in -- in -- in the camp. And -- and I use -- and he used to be on the block first, where I was, and I used to help that baby, a boy, he was nine years old, a lot. He made me m-miffin -- ma -- gloves --

Q: [indecipherable] gloves.

A: But you know, with all the fingers, by himself, from old sweaters. And in -- he used to say, "If I'm -- e -- I'm going to live, you're going to be my second mother, because you're my mother, you helping me a lot. So I used to tell that alfsarin that I have a little boy in the -- in -- in the block, and I like to give him a little margarine, and some sugar, and you know, help, because he is a very delicate little guy. So she http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 9 used to say, "I didn't see. I don't see." And I used to put it in my pants, in my panties, or between my legs, and I used to walk out with it, and I used to help that little boy. And I never forgot his name. Can you imagine how many times, and I remember exactly his name. Then came the -- then one day, you know, I -- I knew that his mother was very sick, and what happened to that little boy, I never found out. But there, all of a sudden one day, after I was there maybe a year, and we saw American soldiers with trucks, coming to the forner, you know, to the front. And -- and they used to go into the office, and we didn't know what -- who they are, even.

And they had, I -- I -- I guess you heard about Bernadot. The her -- he --

Q: T-Tell us about it.

A: This is -- he was from the Red Cross, and he was a prince from Sweden, and his name was Bernadot, and he used to exchange prisoners of war for pr -- for us, and they used to give one of us for a hundred prisoners of war, Germans. And it came to they gave the permission, to take t -- the 11 block, no more, and I was in the first, and I was the lucky one, that I -- and my girlfriend, who used to live here in the United States, in Scranton, she lived through, too. And -- Hannah Foorer her name was. And she was in the 11 block, and she couldn't come with me. We were very close. She used to be my -- my best friend, and my confidant in everything. And in - - so I adore her, and she left there, and they told us, after a whole day pre- preparations there in the -- in the offices, they told us that we are going to the http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 10 freedom, but they don't know how many of us, and they gave us UNRRA packages, and they told us not to eat too much, because we going to get sick.

Q: Were they in uniform, or were they in [indecipherable]

A: Unifor -- uni -- uniform, uniform, but all the trucks had on top red crosses. They were big trucks, and so I -- they -- they came in, and everybody was pushing in, but they had a list, who is where, you know? So they called our names, and they told us to go out of the -- we were closed in -- in -- you know, in -- open -- they opened the doors for us to go to the freedom. That wasn't freedom, really, but we -- the Germans were there. It was about -- it was about we -- the -- the end of the war came about the 15" of May, and this was in April, something a month before that.

So they ex -- that was the exchange, and they gave us the UNRRA packages, and they were very, very nice to us, the -- the Americans. They put their hands under our feet to put us to the trucks, and we didn't understand one word what they saying, and we -- we talked, you know, all German or -- or Polish, or what else? So -- but they said, "It's okay, it's okay." And -- and they said, "No more, no, no, no, no." So we knew that -- not to eat any more, just a little bit, but we were very hungry, of course you want to eat. They gave us chocolates, and I don't remember what, and cheeses, and -- and things what we didn't have.

Q: But they knew you would get sick if you ate too much?

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A: Yes, so they told us not to eat too much, and they -- and we were 40 in a truck.

They load us -- | -- they load in a truck of 40 in -- it -- that took a whole -- a whole day, and that was the next day that we -- we were freed to go out the gates, but the Germans were watching who was going -- who was going out, with papers, with everything. So it was very -- a tragic moment, even we went for the freedom. We left our friends there, we left -- we didn't know what's going to happen to them. But it -- in one way it was tragic, in one w -- way it was freedom. And -- and we saw [indecipherable] you see we free to the birds, we talking. And I -- and we -- we used to say we free like you. Or a dog, we free like you, we -- we -- and they said, "Now, where you out of that -- of those ca-cages, you have the right to spit at them," -- the American soldiers. "You can spit, you can throw whatever you want on them, and they have no right to s -- to e -- e -- seek you any more. You are in our hands."

Q: Did you?

A: No, we didn't. We were glad we out. We just say -- said to him, you know, like go to hell, or you -- you -- I -- I don't even remember what we said. We said you -- you Nazis you -- you -- you killers, you everything. And some weren't even Nazis, some were soldiers, taken there to -- to watch us -- watchmen. And they were afraid of their own skin, they said -- yeah, that's true. Not all of them were -- were too bad, because before, when they came into our -- to our country in 1931, that was a lot of Wehrmarkt soldiers were very nice. One even send me a letter from the front, http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 12 without the address, and he col -- he said to -- he wrote me, "Mine lieber Rosamunda," and "I liebelish, and I'm never going to forget you." And I just talked to him -- I didn't even before, you know, like on the street, and they came into our business or something, and -- and they talked, they were nice people. They came to our house to say m-mutti you have dry hipshin , the orders, you know?

Q: Like credit orders?

A: Yeah, and they -- my mother used to make them coffee, and -- because they were mer -- Wehrmarkt, the SS wasn't there yet. And they were very nice people, they came to rob us, but when they saw three hipsha girls, they didn't take from us nothing, they brought us food, okay? That's the truth. What the truth is, it's the truth, but not -- it was one in a million, okay? So the -- that's not -- that wasn't enough.

Q: The -- the Americans on the truck when they took you out --

A: Yeah?

Q: Did they speak, eventually, through a translator to you, so that you could understand?

A: No, no, we just understand un -- un -- you know, I-like dumb lag -- language, you know, like mute language, and they -- they took us up, and we went -- they took 40 trucks out, because in each truck was 40 people, and they had 11 -- 11 bro -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 13 blocks, just the right to take out, because they didn't have enough gifangyenna to change for the others, so they --

Q: P.O.W."s.

A: Yeah.

Q: Prisoners, yeah.

A: Yeah, the prisoners of war. So they exchange th -- so much, and so much, and they -- and we start leaving. It was a lot of crying, and a lot of happiness, and a lot of cursing, you know? It was. But we went out, and they were going. That was in middle of the night. And we were going, and we asked them where are you going?

They said, now it's Essen, now it's this, you know? It's -- it's -- they told us -- that's -- th-the towns, but I don't remember really. I remember Essen, because it was food.

Q: Essen is the German word for eat.

A: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Q: And it's a city, the name of a city, too.

A: That's right, and the name of a city, and Essen I know. If ort -- I know German -- I knew German that time, and I -- Is -- I promised myself that I'm never going to talk Germ -- speak German, and I never did, you know, I -- I spoke beautiful Swedish, and I don't, because you don't use the language. So we di -- we were d -- going, and they were telling us where we going, we can -- came about -- I don't http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 14 know how many kilometers from Denmark, and they start shooting us from the -- our trucks, with a red cross on top, big huge. The airplanes were very low, the Germans, and they were shooting on our trucks. So the -- the Americans said, "Fast, fast." They didn't know, but they said, "Go on, go on." And to -- to hide in the ditches. In -- y-you okay there?

Q: Oh yeah, don't worry.

A: In -- in -- to -- to -- to go into the ditches and hide. But they were shooting anyway. So we had -- it was in nowhere, almost in nowhere, in -- it was a little maybe farmer's little town. So we saw a house, a farmer's house, and s -- and I was with them to run into that building, and you know, they said, "Juden arous." They said that they didn't know about anything now, they say. They didn't know, nobody knew what's going on. Even in a little heck -- hick town. I don't even know where it was, they didn't let us into the building. They said, "Juden -- farfluked de Juden, rouss." That's all. Because we were still with the u -- with the -- the -- the uniforms and everything. And -- and dirty, and -- and you know. So they didn't let us in. So the -- the ge -- the American soldiers told us to wait out in the ditches, til it's going to -- til they're going to leave, and fast to run into the woods. And through the woods we went, not with the -- but with the -- about three days we walked to -- to Denmark.

Q: You walked to Denmark?

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A: To the Denmark, with -- wi -- through the woods, because we didn't have another way. In the woods, they said it's trees, they not going to see us. So that's -- I don't know, it may be two days, may be three day -- it -- it's a long time you walked and walked, and they used to say to sit down, and -- and rest, and we came into Denmark. Before we came into Denmark, they said no speak bad German. No bad German, you know? Because in -- in Denmark it's a lot of spice, shpionin.

Okay? So we didn't talk about Germans, we were afraid. When we came into Denmark, they took us in like we were -- we were queens and kings. They were so good to us, that I say that they are the nicest people in the world, til today. Sweden was very good to us, too, very good, but not comparing to the -- to the -- to the Denmark people, because they had the Germans there, and they knew how we suffered.

Q: Who -- who received you in Denmark, or --

A: People. People did, the mayor, and people. They took us into -- to like s --

Q: I think --

A: Okay..

Q: I think maybe we have to go to [indecipherable]

A: Okay.

Q: This is the end of tape one, side A, interview with Rose Warner.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 16 End of Tape One, Side A Beginning Tape One, Side B

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number one, side B. So let me just restate the question. Who were the first people you encountered in Denmark? Were they Red Cross, or were they --

A: They must be with Red Cross, because they were waiting for us. So it means that in that little town, I don't even know the name of it, because you know, you came out from hell, and you came into heaven, okay? Heaven. They were waiting with white clothes on them, and -- and -- and -- and -- and greeting us with so much love, and so much attention, and with flowers, and they were very nice. And -- and they were in -- but we had like stables there, because they didn't have so much place. So they -- they put new straw in the stables, and -- and -- and we -- and they made tables on the streets there, for us to dine, to eat. And they didn't give y -- us too much, because they said -- they -- they spoke German, so they said not to eat too much because we going to get very sick, and we going to have to go to the -- to -- to the Riviera -- the Rivera -- the -- you know, the -- th-the hospital, because you going to get sick to our stomachs, and our stomachs are not used to those -- the food, and it's different than -- than in the concentration camp.

Q: What did you eat then? Do you remember? What did they give you?

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A: They gave us I don't know, but they told us don't take seconds, please not to take seconds, because a lot of them did, and a lot of them got sick, and a lot of them died. That's the truth. Because you know, you couldn't get enough of it. We -- there, we had -- if I found a potato in the ground when we went to work, I was their -- I was their commando, and so -- and I ate the -- that tomato -- the potato I mean, with a little -- nothing on it, and with nothing -- with the sand, with the -- I said, "This is going to be mine dessert, where -- if | am going to live through that."

Q: Just enough food.

A: A potato. Even dirty. Okay, that is going to be a dessert. An after dinner, if you going to have dinner, because it tastes so good. So whatever they gave us, it was delicious. So I don't remember, it's so many years ago, with -- to remember what they gave us. They gave us very good food, and they begged us not to eat too much.

No seconds, no seconds. I-In -- in -- and so we didn -- a -- I -- I was listening to them because I was never a big eater. You can see me now. I am not a big eater, I can eat a piece of bread and I wa -- had enough.

Q: Youw're a petite person.

A: Yeah. I didn't -- I didn't eat that -- now I -- I -- I gained weight, because I can work so much, but I was walking with -- with weights in my hand, and I was walking I -- I never gained a pound.

Q: Power walking?

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A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I walked a day, I -- here. An hour, fast, that I came home I had to take a shower, or I was wet, okay?

Q: Did they tell you in Denmark what would happen at that time? Did you still know -- not know what was to happen?

A: No. They said, "You going to be here for awhile," and we going away to Sweden. But by -- by a boat. But in meantime we here, and they took a -- th-the best care in my life, except my home. In a -- they -- they gave us clean clothes, something to -- to -- to -- to throw -- they -- not exactly, because in Sweden they changed everything, but there, whatever somebody could bring, they brought us.

And they -- and then, about two weeks later, it was maybe two, maybe a little more, I don't -- ab -- it's about two weeks. It was raining, terrible raining, they took us to the Bunhoff, to go to a -- to -- to the -- to the mem -- 1-it was waiting for us, the --

Q: The train station?

A: -- the -- the tr -- no, th-the -- not the train. They took us with a train there, to the boats. It's a boat. 24 hours just right. But they were -- it was pouring that day, this I never going to forget. And all the town, and around the town, came with flowers in their hands, and they were hugging us, and telling us good luck, and good luck in wherever you go. And they cried, and we went. We went to Sweden, 24 hours ride, and I am very -- I can't go by ocean. I -- I was sick. I -- am always seasick. I'm no -- even here. My friend had a boat, from -- from what do you call it, the -- the other http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 19 boats are standing and -- and -- doesn't matter. A few miles, I can't go by. So he used to give me pills to -- to -- to -- to -- didn't help me. Even my son, who is now here, he used to throw up, too. It's just from Marina Del Ray, til Santa Monica, I couldn't make it. I couldn't make it. So, you see -- and that was 24 hours, I was very sick, I didn't see the ocean, I didn't see anything. But, I came to Sweden. We came to Mulmay, Sweden. They were there, it was prepared for us, big buildings with mattresses, wide. Can you imagine how a sheet on a mattress, a sheet, a white sheet. That was something I didn't see for five years. In -- and they told us to throw away the lump -- lumpa -- th-the -- the -- the junk, the dirt.

Q: Right.

A: The lice, and everything, and they put -- they gave us something to wear, in -- you know, like a -- a sheet over us. And in the morning, we -- that was -- we -- when we came in, it was there at night, too. We had everything. They gave us something very light to eat, and a -- it was written, you know, in Swedish, on the walls, what -- to something forbidden, for -- so -- but it's forbidden for Jude. No, you -- wait a minute, not Jude, something that it came out Jude. For Bude.

Something, you know? So we didn't understand, and I said, "Oh my God, we are Juden -- Jude here, too." They said, "No, it's just we -- that's our language mixed with German." So -- but they -- they were very -- then, the next day, they took us almost na -- with sheets on -- on our -- on us, they took us to department store, and http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 20 they dressed us from bottom to top, even bras, what we didn't wear for years, bras, and panties, and -- and -- and -- and dresses, and shoes, and socks, and -- and -- and from the underwear to a dress in our coats, okay? I took a brown coat, I remember that fit me. You had to take what they gave us to try on. What fits you, not just they gave you clothes, no. You tried on to fit. And that's what we went -- we went a few -- we went back to Mulmay with the clothes. Can you imagine we looked like people, and we were dressed clean, with no lice, with no nothing. We would -- about I -- I personally didn't have lice, I worked in the kitchen. I was clean. I didn't have the beautif -- the -- the clothes what they gave us there. To me, that time, it was beautiful, with boots, high, high boots, because it -- it's winter there, you know.

It's cold. Later on they took us to a very cold -- to -- to the -- to the south, and it was very cold there, a -- in Malhoffs, it was -- no, Mulmay, it was there, and we went to -- to -- oh, not -- I have a book. Can I --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- stop a minute, a minute.

Q: You can stop for a second to look for the -- the name of the --

A: Yeah, I --

Q: Okay.

A: Look, it's -- it's -- I -- I changed my name when I --

Q: Rose, can you -- can you say that into the microphone [indecipherable] http://collections.ushmm.org

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A: Yeah.

Q: So -- so you found the book where it says --

A: Ah, yeah. Yeah, I found the book where it says where I -- I -- I remind myself before I found the book, but I have -- and that was in Norchepink, in -- in Veewar, in a quarantine, okay? In Norchepink. See? And -- and there I was with them, with this family. They adopted me later.

Q: Carl Gustaf Johnson.

A: Yeah.

Q: [indecipherable]

A: Carl Gustaf, yeah. And -- and -- and sh -- and her name was -- what's was his name -- her name? Doesn't matter, she thought I -- we were in a -- in a quarantine with a kitchen. They gave us ea -- a few of us, you know, I-lived together in a room, and they -- they cooked. We had like a -- a dinner time, and a breakfast time, and around that place was a beautiful lake, and you could swim in the lake, and I -- we didn't have anything to -- to swim in, we were naked, swimming naked. It was only girls. And -- and in the side was beautiful forests, and we used to go to -- into the forest naked. And then th-the boys found out what there are girls swimming naked.

So they used to come with little boats, boating there, and -- and we didn't care because the Germans saw -- saw us all naked. But it still, you know, somebody i-in a different country, they see us. So we were sitting in the water, we didn't want to http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 22 get -- or we run to the -- to the forest. So -- and that was for months we were there, about a half a year in there. And we were fed very, very well, very good, e -- but every Sunday, people from Lunde, the sta -- the -- the big -- the bigger city, they used to come and look at us like -- and -- and from Norchepink, and from everywhere, look at us like monkeys in a cage, because we were something to them like they never saw. Like -- not animals, really, we were people to them, but we were like a wonder from -- like aliens from another world, because they never saw concentration camp people. They never knew -- they knew it's going -- what's going on some, but they didn't see people with numbers in -- in -- in the people I-1- like we were -- I wasn't, but that wa -- a lot of them were terrible wild, and terrible - - you know, from little towns from -- in Poland, or from Germany, they didn't -- they didn't know how to behave, they didn't know -- they were like animals really.

And so they used to come and look at us, at the zoo. A zoo. I-I'm telling you, it was all kind of monkeys in the zoo. So, a couple came to the -- to the -- the -- we were -- you know, like in separate, but you could see from the other side, like they were -- they made like -- how you call it, you know, separate us from -- but you could see through the --

Q: [indecipherable] fence?

A: Fences, but you can see -- tin fences like in -- like -- more like in cages, not fen - - you know, like -- ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 23

Q: Sort of mesh [indecipherable]

A: Mesh, yeah, that's right, that they could see us through the wire. And -- and they were in -- used to come and -- and look at us, and -- and really -- and we said, "Oh mine God, they think that we have horns, or they think we -- we not people like other people." But they nice people, they -- they want to help. So we -- th-they -- we ca -- we came th -- a couple, like Carl Gustaf, and his wife, what's her name, and -- hm, I -- I'm going to remind myself. They came, and they never had children, he was younger than she, and -- and they were -- he was very beautiful, and very tall, and he used to have eyelashes, 1-I-like -- |-like not -- I never saw in my life. He was so gorgeous. Gunn. Carl Gustaf and Gunn, her name was. And -- and they used to look us through, and they saw me, and they called me closer, and they asked me in German, they spoke German -- he was an engineer, and she was a -- a -- working in a -- in a office someplace, and -- and they were asking me where I am from, and they ta -- ta -- ask me all kind of questions, and they say, "I see you next time," and they left. And next Sunday they came again, and she said, "Do you -- how you swim in that water?" And I said, "Naked," you know. So she said, "Okay." And -- and the third time she brought me a beautiful -- I have a picture in that -- a green bathing suit, to bathe in the bathing suit. And she ask me, and he, if they can adopt me. And IJ said, "Of course." So, that has to take a few months, three months for the ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 24 papers to -- a passport, to get a passport, and I had to be so much -- at least three months in the quarantine.

Q: Why did you say of course? You -- you didn't know if your father, or --

A: I didn't know what is better. No, I didn't know, I -- I'm going to be free, | am not going to be in a quarantine like a monkey. I am going to be free. A-And -- and they seemed nice people, very, very nice people. And not adopt me, adopt me -- adoption papers, but they could make me -- they took me off. They are responsible for me, okay? That doesn't mean adopt me forever. But they adopted me for the time being, to be with them, to live with them, and they make me a passport. So they made a passport for me, and they -- in meantime, they made one room for -- they furnished a room special for me. A beautiful room. And they make a bi -- made a big party when they -- I had to go to them, and they invited a lot of people, family and people, and it was the nicest party I remember for a -- for many years. And I -- and they were asking questions, all of those people, and I was answering. And they brought me beautiful clothes, and beautiful -- and he ask me -- he was an engineer in spinnerai fabric. You know what it is.

Q: Yes, spinning wool?

A: Wool -- not wool, thread. And he said if I want to go to work, and they going to pay me 75 liras -- krona a day -- a -- a we -- a week. I said, "I don't know what that is, but I -- of course I go." And in that book, I -- he went -- lived with my girlfriend, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 25 and we used to, you know, how man -- how much money we used to spend for the week.

Q: All right. Can you -- can you read just a few examples of --

A: Yeah, like -- like potatoes, a dol -- a -- a -- a lir --

Q: Krona?

A: -- of krona. A big -- a lot of potatoes, or club soda, you know, for -- for 15 [indecipherable] -- five -- and things like bread for 50 liras -- krona -- not krona, 50 -- it's -- the -- the -- the -- the -- the change, called -- a krona was a hundred of the cents, you know, like -- anyway, things like this add up, and we both shared. Later, not before, but when I was with them, they supported me completely. They took me to parties, and they took me to the movies, and they took me everywhere, til he -- I got back to my -- I -- I looked like a person. This is when I came out of Sweden.

Q: Oh.

A: A few years later, yeah. That's the way, I-I -- even that material I bought in Sweden.

Q: Yeah.

A: What -- yeah.

Q: Y-You were 27 --

A: No, I was about, yeah 25, something like it, yeah. And so I -- i-in the gro -- and the hair grew back, and -- and I looked already like a person. So he start -- I think USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 26 getting too close to comfort. I was working in the -- in -- in the spinnerai fabric, and -- and they all knew he is my father, you know. Carl Gustaf is my father, he treat me like a child, and -- and -- and -- and I looked like a child, believe me. And so he -- so he was very good to me, and she was very good to me, and I loved Gunn very, very much. And they didn't have children. He -- he saw me -- I -- and she was in the 40's, you know? He saw a young woman, a young girl, and he used to sit on my bed when I went to -- to sleep, and talk to me. And I spoke already Swedish. It -- it was very easy for me to learn Swedish, I was very good in Swedish. And that time - - everything is easy when you're young.

Q: Did you tell him about, or did he ask you about what -- what happened to you [indecipherable]

A: Oh yes, we -- we -- we -- we talked by the table, but on the -- on the bed, he came to say goodnight to me, you know, and -- and I thought that he is giving me the looks, and -- and I didn't want to hurt Gunn. And I saw it's too -- too much fo- for a man to sit on a woman's bed when I go to sleep. I didn't like that. So -- but I didn't say -- they were very, very good to me. But one day I said, "Gunn, I am going to go with my good friend, we going to rent a little apartment. And she is working, and I am working, and we going to make a living. I am going to come to visit you." I have their pictures and everything. Beautiful pictures, hi -- their wedding pictures, and -- and how they -- th-they -- really it's -- it's -- and -- but I http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 27 had -- and I ha -- I met a guy, a Polish engineer there, Pierkel, and he even wrote me a beautiful poem when I was leaving, and he said to me, "If you not comfortable there, I find you another family. They don't have children, and they are not so fancy, and they are not so -- and -- and -- you know -- they -- and she i -- has a beauty shop. And he is working someplace else," I think something -- I don't know what he was doing. He was so good to me, he was -- he was washing my underwear there, and I did -- I lived with them only in the daytime. And -- and they -- and I used to smoke cigarettes after the war -- in -- before the war, and after I was 16, and I smoked cigarettes at home. My mother didn't know, she would kill me, but I smoked cigarettes because I, you know, boys and girls and school, and oh, why don't you have one, and just -- and just, you know, don't just let the -- them -- the -- them -- the smoke go, just -- just take it in --

Q: Inhale?

A: -- inhale it, and you going to feel good. And I started getting used to it, and I liked it. So, after the war, I want a cigarette, and she said, "Okay, you get," -- he was -- she was Jewish, and he was a Swede. And she was a very ni -- she | -- was so nice, and she said, "Only three cigarettes a day you can have. One after br- breakfast, and one after dinner, and | -- lunch, and a -- one after dinner." So that engineer -- I have to have my glasses to read you [indecipherable] this is in Polish, how he was very nice. He gave me that place, and he said, "You going to be happy http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 28 here." And they nice people. I can't see very well without those glasses, but he -- he -- when I was going home, that was in 19 -- before tha -- he said, "If you, somehow, you going to leave," because I found my -- my -- my father, and brother, so it -- it's -- he put it in the boo -- in me -- he said, "Give me your book, what you have everything in it, and I am going to write you something to remem-member me." He gave me even -- he was married -- he gave me his wife's -- even I -- someday when I come -- come to -- to Poland, I should look for his wife, and gave -- give her -- them regards. So he says to me, Zapponish cherpenya zhirchamlo dago. That means you going to forget your sorrow from your young life. Zapponia -- y-you forget, Zapponyish shiz gots so verniz leggo. You going to forget what -- everything from the war what's bad. But lech bligum iproshim svominyi ominya, vidda oshwetsi sbomyainya sbominish sbominanya sheftobya shipomno. That means, but I beg you, if you think sometimes about Sweden, remind m -- ab -- remind -- I want you to re -- to remind -- to remember about me, Pierkel. He was an en -- a Polish engineer, and he ga -- re -- really, you see, I -- you speak German, I even wrote in German, I was writing German.

Q: Do you want me to read it?

A: If you want to.

Q: If you want me to, I [indecipherable] USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 29

A: Yeah, because I -- because --

Q: All right.

A: Yeah.

Q: We just have to change the -- the cassette. This is the end of tape one, side B, interview with Rose Warner.

End of Tape One, Side B USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 30 Beginning Tape Two, Side A

Q: This is a continuation of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number two, side A. And we are looking at a book here, and Rose, maybe you should [indecipherable]

A: Yeah. And I wrote it. I wrote a lot of German -- in German and in Polish. But who is interviewing the nice lady? It doesn't speak Polish, so I give her something to read i-in -- I have a lots of them in -- in German. Now, I don't want to speak German, and I don't even -- am good in reading it, okay? Because I said I going to forget that language forever.

Q: But you do want me to read it?

A: Yeah. Of course.

Q: So I will read one that is called Ravensbriick, and it can be -- it will be translated later on. And here the -- here are the words. Tolscrewsa lunchefft uda encarlt. Hav kenatta boymer sie menan duswald. Kum grasgadite and invust -- and invustinzamd grosraven en crene uncrite en dustfeld. Indushta hatrat und tolscrew zavalt. Indushta hatrat declare de fallen bee teer en schlactov answershowen. Meins sbloondusladen hatier fasact. Meins ushenoner so hime art gacairt und isaila fets swiferd und gott is kaft. Deduss neetzeet en carnahiffasheft.

A: Read this too.

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 31

Q: I should just -- maybe just give a quick summary, it's -- it's a desolate landscape, it's empty and cold, dead trees, and that's what they call a forest. There's no grass in this desert sand, only ravens and crows are crowing around the field. It's a bad translation, but it's roughly what it is.

A: That's okay.

Q: Behind the -- the barbed wire there's -- there's a world without hope. Behind the barbed wire there are tortured women. They look like animals in a -- ina slaughterhouse. Quite a -- quite a few wonderful lives died here. [inaudible]. Many urns full of ashes went back to the home, were returned to the home. And the soul is desperate, hoping for God's power, but he doesn't see, and doesn't help.

A: And this is a ver -- evacuation.

Q: Yeah.

A: You can read that [indecipherable], it's short, it's short.

Q: Okay. Evac -- evacuation. Oft dankie en da dunclenart has hapdiabluze as unskemarkt. As Auschwitz, unznot Meyerhof. Meyerhof vershaikt, parhunett en vergonska dript. Of heeta wundercheft gashdareds vipossin und veckt unzgershikt vite frumaustin. Zafarinvera unhumacare to undrek inhira Deutschland invek. Sorry.

Daviek -- daviek futenahavenzbork, dahaven vienna horndondik.

Sosheekdamonunsens uvenplava dotwudnviashnelshlank untmarga. Unfendot ensma hora paradis -- quote unquote in paradise. Dushdee nokum oftenfuse.

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 32 Unsofargesh mish en duclenot asaptai plus os unscamarkt. Deeleeden ganomin dinglowitz oshtirt yehaptunz nowinze dishasengilliat.

A: That's it. It's a lot of it, a lot's of it.

Q: [indecipherable] in German, huh?

A: Yeah. A lot of German, a lot of Polish.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah, if you want to read more, y -- I have time, you can read.

Q: Well, maybe you should read one -- one more in Polish, and then we -- we go on.

A: Yeah, I can.

Q: [indecipherable]

A: I can't -- just stop it for a second, and I --

Q: Oh, I just -- I just let it run, and you [indecipherable]

A: Okay, okay. You see, geshpart mine geshparlach my in geshparla. And this is my -- and -- it -- it's -- it's something, you know, a brief un -- to the Yiddish mother, you have to -- to please, please.

Q: Okay. Breef unda judisha mother, led her to a Jewish -- no, gre -- let her -- breef -- I do it in German first.

A: Yeah.

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 33

Q: Breef unda judishan mutter. Judishan mutter daiclinin awopavelt bashapdit en ivenclit ungestelt. Das earzil mas nos mistyetz liden. Updearos alison kernon fermiden. Un hotoik en geelager gibracht allis upgernamen plus upgear novamarckt.

Sogotis toyester of goddis earden plus solin yetst os oishno veerden. Manhat otiy kinna de kin naven nommen dus heltz itz sirasen gizalitz aronin ahunzat yahi is otterladen. Vivainasti alwite vivainis destradin yedoft avayetnitz hazarin imisti farnitahaden entrang. Offenish vastoid en di trainin de keydershvelt. Yezardi heldinen dishdildin heldinen, heldinen di no envelt. It's a letter to the Jewish mothers, Jewish mothers of the small world of Europe, what have you done? Why do you have to suffer so much? Was there nothing that you could have done to avoid this? They put you into the -- into the camps, they took everything away from us, even the most precious on God is -- on -- on -- on God's world, the child -- but - - wun -- they took the children away from you. Your heart is broken, your soul has melted, and now you are free, and now you should live. But for whom is the work, for whom is your stramin -- I don't know.

A: For y-you --

Q: F-For whom are you trying to do anything.

A: Yeah.

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 34

Q: But now you cannot -- you cannot stop, you have to -- to hold the flag of the hero -- of the heroine, even if you are -- even if you are weak, and your tears swell in your throat, you are the heroines, the quiet heroines of the new world.

A: Yeah.

Q: Maybe that's a good way to -- to go on.

A: Yeah, see? This is -- it's -- it's -- I have a lot, and if you want some, in the German, to translate later, to make copies, you welcome to it.

Q: [inaudible]

A: Because that's a lot of it. Now, I'm going to -- this is in the -- this is the end, I have the beginning. This is Polish. But you see, this is Polish. But you see, I can't see so well, because I -- my eyes were just -- had surgery, and -- and it's takes a lit - - and -- and I seem like I don't know how to read, because I don't see. And I'm going next month, the ninth, for new glasses. So I -- I can't see with the -- with the old ones very well.

Q: Well, we'll just be patient [indecipherable]

A: Yeah, yeah. Just a minute.

Q: And you wrote all of this --

A: Yes.

Q: -- in Sweden?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 35

A: No. In Sweden, yeah, in Sweden. We didn't have anything to do there. He -- we were lady of leisure. This is yesthim -- yestthaze zhidufcum. That means, you are a Jew. Bamientaj shaijalishe iz glovavrain cutz bartone blackalish spuvodu octorai movitch niavarto. Nagalec shiroot platu sobip shipanyalish zhipshakish zvoyim jeetju needsdo braigon nyezaznalish. Gadishim voyaja jenes vopa jallo. Chizbee honor shientobia na -- nianalajallo. Podobno keddish jetzkim billash stadick dimlakos piersheemat keepuage. Troy -- I'm sorry -- a minute. Troya matka n- neerass -- not neerass shuwn not tobe -- nottobam plakalla. Ti tago nya rosa myalish. Strangelivia strangeliva -- Oh, e-excuse me one minute. I have to wipe my eyes because of the blindness and -- and -- and tears, I can't see nothing.

Shayslivabil pleashtagone yerosim yawa. Strangeliva billish porkonia zillage.

Hortshnia billage bokato, novosokenkin dastalish. Zielkearadoshchi nash ooleetson bi now villachallash. Ledzaras cammianian rouey kamieni -- karmaini rouey shipart chairnatfooey stoo -- notfooey strooey. Jedoofko jedoofko, but -- but sh -- but cheecha yarkshune visbatchchay yachshun vistrayilla. Potay compielli dopiero spotserobatch yaivengia milo. Thish malutka pionski steddy zhatchisnellash i gloval -- i gloval splattim abilbuv nilash. Shaitiarge jedoofko mo molod jedoofko molobillo zozemainia zhe musheetz chairbiatch po bo polchoos bai inaigua nashviate sherfa jeelo. It's -- it's a lot. It's -- it's -- it's very long.

Q: I see. Well, maybe you can just give us a [indecipherable]

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 36

A: It's -- it's that -- that -- that's what I was reading. It's when I was Jewish and -- and the war broke out. When I was a ma -- a little child, my mother gave -- breast feeded me, and she was singing to me, and she was -- she was a -- a -- happy, and -- and then you -- you -- you are a beautif -- you -- you -- even people want very rich, they bought new dresses for the children. You went out and the -- the -- the stones were throwing on you, and they said, "Jew, what are you so dressed nice? B-B- Because we going to -- we going to throw on you those stones, so what are you dressing so nice? And what are you -- what did you come on this world, because we should -- we should punish you for that, that you came on this world." And it's mun -- many more, it's a long story, but I --

Q: Well, we'll give a copy of it to the museum, so anybody who listens and is interested, can -- can look up with the -- the full text.

A: Yes.

Q: So -- so you had time, and the emotions came out, and you wrote it down in Sweden.

A: In Sweden, because we didn't -- I can't see with the glasses, we -- we are -- in Sweden we had a lot of times, sitting in -- in the -- in the quarantine, and we were coming together, and girls, and we put together words, and we put together poems, and we put together our -- our lives, our sufferings, and our happiness after that, but the happiness came too late, because we lost everything precious to us. Not things, http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 37 things you can buy for money. This is not pleasures. We -- I lost two sisters, and I lost my sister's children, and I lost my mother, and I lost my child. And I lost everything and -- what -- what wor -- worth living for? But we are -- a person is just a person, and everybody, in no matter what situation, wants to live. And I don't know if I wanted to live. I -- somehow I came out alive, but that's what I lost. Never I forget, and I never stop crying, never. Because, when you look around on my old age, I am seeing, even if I have children, they -- it's not Poland, or my city. It's a -- it's a big country, and everybody goes someplace else where they can make a living, and I stayed here, and -- and it's not -- the children are not the children that we used to be to our parents. The children don't care about their old parents. They do, but in a different way. They just try to push you into an old age home, which some are doing it, but I am not going to let happen, because I am going to eat a piece of bread without nothing on it. I have to want my peace and quiet, and my korern. And I don't want to be with my children, because they have their lives, and I have my life. They don't owe me anything, but they -- they -- I'm not a -- because I brought them on this world, they didn't ask for it. But, in the other hand, I am not - - 1am me, by myself, and that's my life, and I'm taking care of myself. I worked very hard in my life, in the freedom. I was everything in the world. I did everything, works -- worked in factories, and work -- cleaned stairs, and worked every -- I -- the only thing I wasn't, I wasn't a street worker. Otherwise, I did everything. And I, USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 38 since 1996, and now -- now it's "99, I was alone with three children, and I worked in a bakery. I worked everywhere, in factories, in bakeries, and I put together a penny to a penny, because I knew that some -- and I made -- I married second time in 1970, just for a few -- for a year, and I found out that my second husband was molesting his daughter, he was sleeping with his daughter, and I -- after a year, I -- we annulled the marriage. I didn't want to live in a home like this. So Iam by my ow -- on my own through 1973. On my own, and I make my living, and I worked 12 hours a day, taking care, when I was still young, or old people. And 12 hours a day with old-timers, with all kind of people, and I washed them, and I b-bathed them, and I take -- took care of them, and I loved them like mine parents. And I made my living, and I put a penny to a penny, and now I live on my -- I was -- when I left -- I divorced my husband, because he was no good to me. So I -- after I divorced him, I didn't have nothing, only a kitchen table, and a -- and a bed -- and a -- and a folding bed from -- a few folding backs, what my landlord gave me, and I made everything with my 10 fingers. I worked. I put every -- I didn't go for vacations, I didn't go no place, I just went to mine s -- to -- to Canada back and forth, because I had a sick -- first my father died, then my brother was sick, and otherwise, I didn't go for any vacations, and I made my life. And that's what ""m living on, and I'm never going to let my children put me in -- in an old age home. I rather kill myself, because I told them, and they know, no old age home.

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 39

Q: Rose, I -- I need to interrupt you. We'll talk more about your life now, and as a development. I would just like to go back to Sweden [indecipherable]

A: Yes, I -- I go back to Sweden, but because we started with this --

Q: I know.

A: So I -- now I'm going back to Sweden.

Q: And you -- you -- you did have a husband somewhere, you didn't know what happened to him at that time.

A: Yes, I didn't.

Q: Your brother and your father you thought were hopefully alive.

A: I didn't -- I didn't know. I didn't know.

Q: But you didn't know. So what -- what -- what happened then?

A: | -- then -- then I -- I -- in Sweden, I was looking to the Red Cross, and they changed their names, so I couldn't find any of them. They did -- they -- they didn't have my maiden name. My father was Katanoffsky, my brother was Bridotsky.

How could I find people with different names, belonging to me?

Q: So they -- the Red Cross lists had names on it, but were changed?

A: But they weren't Jews, they didn't -- they didn't admit that they are Jewish, they were as Aryan.

Q: So they had Polish names, then?

A: Polish names, and Polish papers. But for money, you understand? So -- ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 40

Q: But you didn't know this.

A: I didn't -- I didn't -- I knew, but I didn't know that my brother changed his name, because he's | -- was living with a lady, and he -- he took her name, and my father -- I-I-I didn't know for whom I have to look. So -- but I [phone ringing]

Q: Okay, we-we'll stop for a second.

A: It's my neighbor from here. He has to tell me -- what you saw cleaning th-th -- the [indecipherable]. He's a Russian.

Q: [indecipherable]. So you didn't know the names that your [indecipherable] had taken?

A: I didn't know who I'm -- I have to look for, so I, being young, having still my -- my brains are still good, thank God, but I -- you know, I remembered the addresses for people who I knew in school, and knew my brother's friends, and knew my mother's girlfriends. She -- she was -- she was Gentile, but I knew the -- you know, where they lived, and we used to call her -- my mother's friend aunt, you know? So I know my aunts address and everything. So I called. I -- I wrote -- was writing letters to Poland, and I wrote a letter to my friend, a boyfriend in Poland, and -- and I ask him, please tell me if you saw somebody o -- from my family. So he -- it took -- and I call -- and I wrote to my mum -- mother's friend, so-called my aunt, and I call -- and I re -- wrote to my brother's friend Bias, h-he didn't even answer me, but I called to Korba. He was a -- a artist -- a painter, and I called to them, and they -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 41 my brother and father was there when they got my letter, and -- and she -- and they were dancing, and they got all drunk, i -- because my brother and father, when the war ended, they came to Gdansk -- to Danzig, a -- but -- but they came to see the friends in our town, to Zamush, very far. And -- and so they -- they got the letter -- she got the letter, and they were dancing, and they were crying, and they were drunk, and they -- and they wrote me a letter. I have still a -- a few letters, I don't -- I can't find them now. And I -- and -- and my mother's friend co -- said to me, "Drink a little water, and -- and read that letter, your father is here. Drink a little more wa-water, you brother is here, and drink a little more here," -- because I got married in the war time, in 1940, "dri -- you husband is here. He came from Mauthausen." And so I had -- they knew that I am alive, and then I wrote to my boyfriend a letter, and he, the same time, he send me a letter that he said, "I -- I got your letter in the day, what -- w-when I received your letter, was the happiest day in my life, that you are alive, and I am go -- I don't know where your family -- the rest of the family lives, but they live by the ocean, and I don't have the address. I saw them here, they came for a -- for a soccer game, and they -- and I saw them. I didn't had the letter from you to tell them the news, but I -- the letter I got later, but I saw them, and I can give you a good news, that they are alive. Your father, you brother, and your husband." And so that was how I found them. And after I -- they -- they -- they -- I wrote to -- they send me -- my mother's friend gave me their address where http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 42 they lived, and I wrote a letter to them, and they -- they wrote a letter to me. My father said to come, he is -- he wants to see me, because he can't go to Sweden.

That time, you have to be a Swedish citizen to be able to bring somebody to Sweden. So I couldn't take them, or they had to wait, and they wanted to see me right away, and my father was writing -- reading -- writing to me that I am the only one daughter from three, who is alive, and he wants to see me right now. So it took a little while, a year, til I came back to Gdansk. And to -- to see -- to my husband, I wasn't in love with my husband. I got married only in the war time to him, because he said if I'm not going to -- to my mother -- if "m not going to marry him, he his going to go to the Germans to be killed. And so my mother said, "What do you have to lose? We going to be killed anyway, a-all of us. Make him happy," and -- because he was my boyfriend. Not a boyfriend, he -- we ha -- he met me and he wanted to be engaged to me, but I said, "Mother, I don't want to." And she said, "Don't -- you not losing anything." So -- and I got married in 1940, and I got a -- and after we marriage, even the Gestapo came -- not g -- SS men came to my marriage, we married in the house. And I -- and they were still not the way they later were, and it was about 12 SS mens on my wedding, and then I had a baby. I -- and whi -- in the meantime, when I was pregnant, my sister was married to a doctor, and his name was Arvald, but he came from the family of the -- of th -- I-I just this minute came out of my -- mine -- and he was a doctor, a -- a ped-pediatrician, and USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 43 he married her because she was so beautiful. And -- and when the war broke out, he [indecipherable] and when they start beating us up, and you know, th-the -- like the carpets -- th-the Oriental carpets weren't lying on the floor, they were hanging on the wall in most of -- i-in the houses. So they told them to take out -- off the -- from my mother's house -- mother's home, th-th-the Oriental rugs, and so -- and they beat him, and my sister said, "Why do you beat my husband, he's doing what you want." And she was so beautiful. They both were very beautiful. One went in the beginning, with two children. But this one, she said to me, I -- I -- 1 -- no, we going to sleep, because we had -- i-it was already in the ghetto, and we were -- she went to the house, and she told her -- she had a maid, and she told her maid to tell my mother that they're going to sleep. They didn't went to sleep. He gave her a morphine shot, and he -- he took two morphine shots. He died, and they revived her.

She lived only three months, and she said she's going to Metek, to him. And so I lost them both. Then -- and -- and I was pregnant. And after my baby was born, after his death, his name was Metek, so I called my -- my little daughter Mulgosha, and if you stop a minute --

Q: Mm-hm. Yeah, this is --

A: End?

Q: We should stop anyway --

A: Yeah.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 44

Q: -- this is the end of tape two, side A, interview with Rose Warner.

End of Tape Two, Side A Beginning Tape Two, Side B

A: This is made in Sweden.

Q: Just -- just one second. This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number two, side B.

A: We didn't -- I don't know where my daughter is when she died of hunger. She had diarrhea because she -- I didn't have anything in my breasts, she was only seven and a half months. And so, you see, it's a broken tree in this -- she -- yeah, seven and a half month. This was freshen -- that [indecipherable] that was ju-jeshen is in Polish, I -- I-I -- I can't -- I -- that doesn't matter, that doesn't matter when that was.

It was after she was seven and a half months. Odeshla odnas naviaki niedrosha dusheetska nasha Mulgosha Schiavitch. Zhershipzhe zaladia shairdem eapul neeshownza. I will transfer it later -- later. Odeshla odenoff na nyechdontz bich chuzhadim crititchnik jarsak jeovik. Ogoeshou shpee spokoinya vernashik serzek zafsha jhergebendish eedoujon ouloshniesh rojeetsa. Now, I am going to translate this. You went -- you left from us forever, our dushitka -- our heart -- nasha, our heart. Mulgosha Schiavitch, that was her name. Zhershipshe, that -- living only seven and a half months, sh -- you went from us with -- not willing to be in the critical times our chuzhadim, that means i-it -- presh -- du -- di -- to press us, you ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 45 know. You -- you -- j -- i-in our -- in that time, you know. Ogoeshou, mine gra -- mine sister's gir -- girl was two years old that time, Erldka, and she called her Ogoeshou. She couldn't say Mulgoshu, so she used to say Ogoeshou. Ogoeshou, that means Ogoeshou -- shpee is sleep quietly. In our heart you always going to grow, and you going to live. You parents.

Q: We should -- we should say for our listeners that this is a painting.

A: Yeah.

Q: And this -- it's a gravestone.

A: Yeah.

Q: Engraved.

A: Yeah.

Q: Wh-Who made it?

A: A girl in Sweden made it for me, and I remembered all the te -- what were the -- because my -- my husband, when sh -- they took her away, made from -- from a granite, and he put -- and he -- he -- with a knife, this poem, this thing in it. And I had it in my head in Sweden.

Q: And Sylvia painted it for you?

A: Yeah. And I told her how it looked, and she painted for me.

Q: That's very moving.

A: Yeah. So that's wh -- ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 46

Q: So what -- what happened when you -- wh-when were you reunited with your father, and your brother, and your husband, and what -- what did you talk -- what were the feelings, what did you talk about [indecipherable]

A: 1 -- I didn't talk anything. I was there waiting and call -- and -- and writing to them, and they write me -- wrote me back. And -- and -- and my husband said, "I want you here, and I can't wait and -- to see you." And I really didn't love my husband, but he was a husband, so h -- I didn't even expect that he's going to find me, and he's going to be alive. I didn't, because in Majdanek -- being in Majdanek, we were together, but not in the same places. So he was mellorating. You know what mel -- meloration? The water? That they brought the water for the flowers, to - - to -- to -- to -- yeah, and I -- and we used to work there, by the flowers in -- in Majdanek. So he -- I forgot to give the Germans a gold -- golden earrings with my monogram, what I had from home, and I -- and I got them in the ears. In Majdanek they didn't cut our hair, so I had my long hair, and I didn't see that I left them in my ears, because we had to give our gold and everything. S-So I-I -- they s -- the girls, my friends saw that I have earrings in my ears, and they said they -- they going to kill you. So I took them off, and I c-cut a piece of my ni -- whatever I wore underneath in the dress -- oh, pants, I don't know what I wore there, what they gave us, and I put them -- and I had still my home shoes, I only took off the -- the high heels. So I was walking like this, but I put them in my toes, one and in the other one USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 47 o -- of each toe -- by each toe. And when my husband used to work someplace else, but he used to change with somebody to see me from far. And he was carrying the water, and I was working so, by the flowers, so I gave him this in his hand. And -- and that's all I saw of him. And I never saw him again.

Q: So when -- when did you go to [indecipherable]

A: Yeah, when he -- he was working to make for the Germans in -- in -- it was Scarjisk in Poland, a city, they were making yellow to sh -- for the -- for the pistols, you know, like yellow bombs, so -- I don't know what. He was working with that, and he was completely yellow. And all of them working there used to die of poison in the body. And he was already swollen. So then, a Polish guy worked there from the freedom, and showed what to do, you know, by the -- by the picreena. That was picreen, I don't know how it calls in -- in German. It -- yellow powder to make --

Q: Ammunition?

A: Ammunition. Yellow powder. And so he said, "I have some," and -- and he was swollen already. The guy said, "If you not going to eat something, and you swelling goes to your heart, you die." So he's -- you have something to give me, to sell? He said, "Yes. I have a pair of earrings, I wanted to keep it for my wife, but I am going to sell it. How much y-y -- do you giving me?" He said, "300 Zlotas," -- that time in Poland, "and I bring you bread for it." And he sold it, and he -- that's -- because of those earrings, he was alive.

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 48

Q: Was it sulfur? That -- that yellow --

A: Sulfur, like sulfur, yeah. They were -- they called -- they -- when they saw him on the streets going to work, they said, "The yellow are coming." They were completely yellow, the eyes, and the -- the skin, everything. So this -- this was in Scarjisk in Poland, a factory for German ammunition. So that's when I didn't know that my -- he is alive, too. I wasn't sure. I -- I didn't even thought about it. So when I knew where my brother and -- and father is, and my brother had, that time, a Polish -- Ukrainian woman for a wife, and -- and my brother-in-law of the other sister's, he was on -- on pa-papers, too, and he lived with a Polish woman, and his name was gr -- Jellack. Okay, something different. How did I -- how could I -- so, and then, after the war, he lived in Vulbjif. You know where Vulbjif is? It's -- it's a German city, but Poland called it Vulbjif. I used to live in -- when a -- in Poland after Gdansk, in -- in -- in Shtolp. It's -- was a German city in -- it -- Polish, it was Lupsk, because you know, they exchanged places. So anyway, I -- when I came to po -- I -- when they told me to come and to come, and I said to -- I went to Karl Gustaf and Gunn, and I said I have to say goodbye, and to my o -- other -- other parents, I had a lot of friends there, a lot, good friends what they helped me. That -- that's what I'm alive, because a lot in Sweden died, a lot. In Sweden. Because they were bones and skin, and they ate, and they -- nobody watched them, and you know, and -- it -- it -- it -- not because they didn't h-have good there, too good let's ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 49 say. Too good because they ate too much, and they were dying like -- like flies. Oh, forbuden they say, for-forbidden is forbuden. That's the word. And I had said, "What is buden to you, too?" Anyway, so I -- I -- I said, "Okay, I'm coming home." And after a year and a half in Sweden, I came to -- to Gdinia, not Gdansk, but Gdinia. Danzig is -- was a -- a free co -- free -- free city, but I came to the Polish, to Gdinia. And they -- the Polacks, took us in there, when I came from Sweden already, they -- in middle of the night, they didn't give us n -- a little water. Not a piece of bread, nothing, I'll --

Q: How -- how did you go over to -- to Poland?

A: | -- I -- I made -- they made me papers, and -- to go back home.

Q: But I mean, by -- by boat?

A: By -- oh, no, by -- by -- I don't -- by train -- by tr -- I don't remember. It was -- it was so many years. How did I go back? I don't know. By -- by train from Sweden.

Q: That's a long [indecipherable]

A: Yeah, a long r -- I -- all by -- a half by water, and -- and I was -- I -- I don't remember, because I was always sick on the water. I am -- maybe I went to -- back to Germany, and from ger -- I don't know. I don't know how. And so --

Q: So when you got there, the Polacks were not very friendly?

A: N-N-No. I was hungry, and shivering, in middle of the night, and I didn't know, I thought that when -- when IJ, Polish citizen, come to Poland after the war, they ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 50 going to embrace me, they going to give me I don't know -- I came there -- food and ev -- nobody. I was with valises, with -- with suitcases. I didn't know in middle of the night where to go. And nobody -- and I walked, and my shoes w-wer -- I -- I couldn't walk any more. Nobody wa -- in Polish I ask, "Where shall I go? I have to go to -- to -- to Gdansk." You go, you go. You -- you -- you -- you are a Jew? You go. Okay? So you are in Polish, Zhidufka, go. Je -- You Jewess, go. Okay? I -- I came in middle of the night, it was five o'clock in the morning, I came to Gdansk. I had their address. I didn't have money, I have kr -- to -- to call them. I had a hundred, no 75 s -- kronas I had with me. Oh, a -- a -- a -- a -- a, change is a erra -- eara. You know? Eara. You know?

Q: I forgot -- I forgot, too.

A: Eara, eara. So you see, I've -- I remind myself. And -- and a few earas, and I couldn't make a call. And I said I wanted -- I want to call. Nobody let me call. So I went walking from the station to Kastanyinwai, in Gdansk. Later they call it Lenjona, but it was still Kastanyinwai. And easy I remember the -- the -- the -- the names of the -- of the streets, apart -- Kastanyinwai, too. And I found the building. I came to the building, and I knocked in the door, and a -- i -- ma -- the door -- the -- the big -- big, you know, in the building, the -- the -- the -- the door, somebody opened with a key, and they let me -- and they said, "Who are you?" In Polish. And I said, "I am Luftoovna," in Polish. So they said, "Oh, my God." And they were ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 51 from mine town, they lived in the same building. And they used to have -- making a beer brewery. And I said -- sh-she -- she came to visit me here. And -- and she said, "Daloo -- yeah, she said Damska, she got married to a Polish guy, and her name was Damska in -- in Danusha, and she opened the door, and she said, "Mine God, they -- you -- they live on the third floor, they waiting for you. And they -- they talked about du -- you, and we all cried." And her mother came out, and they all cr - - we all cried. Because they knew me. And so, I -- I came to -- to Danzig. I came into the hou -- I knocked in the door, and my sister-in-law thought somebody -- you know, everybody came from the t-town to look for somebody who is still alive, and she said, "Who are you? What do you want?" And I said, "You Franya?" And she said, "Yes." "You my sister-in-law. Open the door. I came from Sweden." And -- and so she said, "Why didn't you let us know?" And I said, "I didn't know how. I didn't know when I'm going to get the passport, and when I'm going to come." I-It -- and it ca -- it took longer, I was sitting in Gdansk, in Gdinia a whole day. It was a whole mess. So I came in -- in -- in my -- and they were all screaming in middle of the night, five o'clock, and crying. And my husband was there, too, s-standing and shaking like a leaf. And -- and my father cry, everybody cried, and -- and so I lived with them for a little -- for a year, maybe a year. It was a big, big house, a big building in a -- in a big -- the whole third floor. So they gave me a room, we used.

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 52 the same kitchen. And then I -- I was living there, and I said, "It's time for me to go on -- on their own." We had a kiosk, you know what a kiosk is?

Q: Yeah, it's a small little place where you can buy anything.

A: Yeah, so my husband had that. My father had a big store in Gdansk. So -- and I said -- and he -- I didn't get along with him, I said, "I'm going to leave you." I gus prug -- I got pregnant. The first time he made me pregnant, and he said, "Na -- you not going to leave me, because you pregnant." Okay? So I had my first son, and he was born in -- in Gdansk. And then when he was a little boy --

Q: What was his name?

A: Mark. And Mark lives in Arizona now, and he's married to a -- an Arizonian girl, Cindy. And -- and they don't have children. And so he -- I had that little Mark, and my husband was jealous that I gave love to Mark. I don't love him, and I said I didn't -- I never did, okay? It's just for pity I'm staying with you, because I am not going to stay wi -- I stayed with him 23 years, and I had a miserable life, til here. I left him in -- in -- he left me thousand times. We didn't live in -- in Montreal for months off and months on. I -- I -- it -- it was a misery. But I came there, and we lived there til my Mark was a year -- my Mark -- sorry -- is there on that picture, that little boy sitting, that -- that beautiful, little boy. And he i -- and this is my middle one, who's here now. And those are all three. You see, Mark, Eugene, and Eddie.

ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 53

Q: They're very good looking boys.

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: Nice looking boys.

A: So those are -- those are -- they -- Mark is now 53, and Eugene is just turned May, 51, and my law -- younger one, youngster, Eddie, is fi -- 44.

Q: We'll talk about them a little bit more later --

A: Yeah, yeah, but --

Q: -- I just want to ask you one question.

A: -- ye -- yeah.

Q: One question. How was it to be -- to see your father again? What did -- what did you --

A: It was -- it was -- it was coming from the ashes. I came back from death, and I saw them. And my father became my life. I brought him here to Canada -- here not to Canada. He was here nine months, nine and a half months with me, when he was still alive. And -- and -- and my brother, they were my life. I didn't have anybody.

No cousins, no -- nobody, only American uncles who didn't give a damn about anything. They -- we were -- we didn't know each other. My father didn't recog -- didn't know who they are, okay?

Q: Did you -- have you, after all this experience, had your faith changed, your feeling -- USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 54

A: No.

Q: -- about [indecipherable] Jewish [indecipherable] fathers --

A: Lam -- Iam Jewish, and very much Jewish, and it hurts me that my children don't want to believe in it. And they don't -- one has a Jewish wife, it's not that they don't have Jewish wives, but sometimes is hurting me. His little girl, my middle son's, said, "Teddy, can we go to church?" And that hurts me, because I am Jewish.

I don't -- I -- I don't go to synagogue, I am not a religious Jew, but this is my faith, and with this faith I will die. I went through a Holocaust because of my faith, and I never going to change it. Mine father became back Jewish, and my brother became Jewish back, and my sister-in-law was Ukrainian, in th -- in -- in Montreal. She had one boy, he was religious. He came with those -- you know, tha -- the very Orthodox Jews, she made out of him. And she -- was a k -- Ukrainian. And she begged me when she was dying, she was 43 years old when she died of cancer in Montreal. I brought them from Israel to Montreal. And -- and she begged me to put her on the Jewish cemetery. And she was never -- he'd never -- she'd never changed her religion, but she wanted to be on the Jewish cemetery. See? So I never changed my religion for nothing in the world. And more older I am getting, more I am listening to Jewish prayers, in -- which I don't know nothing. I don't know how to read in Jewish, and I don't know how to pray in Jewish. But when I heard the Kaddish, you know, after the dead, and when -- I cry very much, because I am --

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 55 they are telling Kaddish for my family, okay? So I -- I don't know -- I don't observe the Jewish holidays. I -- I observe them only because this is -- the j -- the Jewish -- not rel -- not -- this is not religious, this is tradition. I -- I -- I believe in my tradition, I believe in my God. I believe -- I don't go to a synagogue because I don't believe in rabbis, I don't believe in what they tell me. I -- if the God, my God, is in the cher -- in the -- in the synagogue, he is in my house, too. He is everywhere, and if I want to pray, I pray to Him with all my heart, with all my mighty. And I thank Him every day for every day I live, I thank God for it. And --

Q: Did your father have doubts?

A: My fa --

Q: Or was he [indecipherable]

A: -- after -- after the war, my father -- see I's -- I feel I have the glasses. Ma -- after the war in Danzig, my father was still the -- the -- the Catholic, you know? He used to go to churches, because he was afraid of everything. He was in Lemberg as a -- as a Gentile, and a Polack from our town came in, a policeman, and he saw my father, and my father got white like this, and he t -- and my father had a store in -- in Lemberg, so that this policeman, Polish policeman, saw my father turning white, and he turned around, and he said, "Looft, don't be afraid. I didn't see you." In the wartime, okay? And he walked out of that store. So -- i -- 1 -- after the war, my father used to go to church because he thought -- he -- he started saying, "They ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 56 going to kill me. They going to kill me if they going to know that I'm a Jew." So he w-was going with the procession, first with the procession with the cross. And I said to my father, "Father, if -- if they -- if I'm not going to be able -- I'm going to -- to Canada. And -- first to Israel, and then to Canada, because I can't go different ways.

But if you not going to change your name, they," -- he was in jail at Oscojanolski. I said, the Jewish Federation asking you what's your real name, and you don't want to tell them, because they going to kill me, I'm afraid. My father, with the Jewish name -- with the Polish name, went to the Jewish Federation for a Passover. You know what's Passover is. And he met another engineer guy, who was -- asked my father, he had a-a -- a Polish name, and they met there, in the Jewish Federation in Gdansk. And this friend of my father said, "Katchanowski, what are you doing here?" He said the [indecipherable], because why did you | -- why did -- it was Passover. So he came to -- to celebrate Passover with the Jews, but outside he was afraid that they going to denounce him, and he's going -- they going to kill him, because they killed a lot of Jews in -- in Poland after the war. Polack -- Polish people. They made pogroms, and they killed them. My brother came to sell something what belonged to us, a house, and this, and -- and they told him, if you not going to leave here -- from here, you know what's going to happen to you. So my brother left, okay? So that's the truth, what I'm telling you. So we -- my -- so I told my father, "If you're not going to change your name back to po -- to -- to -- to USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 57 your name, you Looft. You have to be Looft, you know?" L-u-f-t, it's Luft in -- in po -- in English, but it was Looft in Polish. So I said, if-- it's a German name, and -- and -- and -- and he said -- I said, "If you're not going to change it, how am I related to you to bring you to wherever I am?" So finally he came as Katchanowski to Israel. And from Israel I said, "Father," -- and my brother as Brodotsky -- "you can't come to Canada if you not going to change your name, because they -- they ask me who is he to you? He's related -- why don't you have his name?" So they changed first, back to Luft. My brothe -- brother died as a Luft, and my father died as a Luft in Canada. And my bru -- father died in "66, and my -- 1966. My brother died just two years ago.

Q: We should --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- say that this is the end of tape two, side B, interview with Rose Warner.

End of Tape Two, Side B ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 58 Beginning Tape Three, Side A

Q: This is a continuation of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number three, side A. And Rose, here's my question. What happened next? So you went Poland first, but that -- but you didn't stay there?

A: No. So my father, I told you, was so Catholic that he was working with a -- with a cross -- with a -- and I said, "How I am going to take you to -- to Israel?" So he changed the name, they -- my brother -- and my brother was married to a Ukrainian lady, and they all went -- after a year I was in Israel before I left for Canada.

Q: Why did you want to -- okay, we have to backtrack a little. Why did you want to go to Israel, and why did you le -- let's go to Israel first.

A: No.

Q: Why [indecipherable]

A: Why -- why from Poland?

Q: Yeah.

A: Because we had to run away from Poland, the Russian were there, and that was a very, very bad time. The Russian arrested everybody for nothing. They -- they think that he's against them, or -- or whatever, you know? They don't want to be Communists or something, they were -- they were all in jail, my brother, and my brother, and my father, and my -- and my friend, she -- not Jewish, friend, she is in http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 59 Canada, my -- my -- Helen Vineetska, my best friend. We -- we friends for 55 years, she is Catholic. And so, you see, in -- we -- and we had to run. We didn't -- we couldn't -- we didn't have any possible to go anyplace else, and Israel was taking in that time, people. So we went to Israel, to wait for a green card from -- from -- in -- from cana -- can -- do -- the Canadian, for the Canadian.

Q: When did you go to Israel? When was that?

A: About in 48.

Q: An-And why did you want to go to Canada from Israel?

A: Because from Canada you could go to America. That's a whole story. In Canada, I had -- in America I had uncles, and they said, "We can't take you to America, because you have to wait for a quota. You go to Israel, stay in Israel for a -- for awhile, and then go to can -- you going to Canada." I had cousins in Canada, and they send me papers to Canada. To Canada from Israel you go -- can go in a year, okay? So we, after a year and a half, I left Israel to -- to Canada, because in Israel it was very bad after -- the Israeli just got the country, and it was bad, and everything on -- on -- on carts, and -- and you couldn't get enough -- it -- it -- that was -- I said, I -- I told my uncles, I called them, I am back in concentration camp, okay? Because that was new, a new country, and they didn't have so much.

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Q: Let's stay in Israel then, for a second, because that's -- the -- your impressions of the country are interesting. So, for you it was not like it was for many others, sort of like a homecoming, really, to Israel --

A: It was a homecoming from Poland, in -- but not to stay. I want to run from the home. You understand? I -- I -- I -- it -- it was -- for me it was too hard. And you -- you -- we didn't have a house, in a house. We were in barracks, or in -- in -- in -- in -- in tents. That -- it's not a life.

Q: Where did you --

A: They didn't have enough place for so many people coming in.

Q: How did you live, then?

A: Terrible. They gave us food, they -- they gave us car -- cards that I could get a -- a quarter of a pound of butter, all -- o-or a half a pound of butter for a whole month.

A chicken a month. That wasn't enough, they didn't have it. That was -- it was a desert, now it's a beautiful country. When I came there, it was desert, and they didn't have a place, so we stayed -- first we stayed in -- in -- in tents.

Q: Where -- where was that in Israel?

A: In -- in -- in Abarborra. That means, this is just like a military place it used to be, and they -- and they ti -- the military wasn't there any more, and they gave us up that place, to live there. It was terrible. It -- I li -- then they gave me a barrack. For three families, one barrack. They didn't have place, it's a little country. And all of a ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 61 sudden they teed -- they took in so many people. So, in -- in -- in -- and it's not that, what I was looking for.

Q: What were you looking for?

A: I wa -- I was loo -- looking for freedom, not cartiseem. I was looking for freedom, and not for a heat like this, in where I want to live. So I --we went -- we went after a year and a half, we went to Canada. We -- to Montreal. And Canada was very nice. We -- my uncles came from the United State, and they rented for me two rooms, by somebody. I had already three children. I got one, I -- I beared the youngsters in -- in Israel. One in Shtolp, in Shloopsk, and one in Gdansk, okay? So, I had three. They -- my cousins knew I have only two, in meantime, I -- I gave birth to a third one. Because, I would come earlier, but they know -- knew that I'm pregnant, they didn't want me to leave til the child is a ha -- a half a year old, okay?

Q: Did you want all these children?

A: No. I wanted to -- to aborth -- abort th-th-th-the little -- in Israel, but my husband didn't let me, and I'm glad. I -- I -- I think I -- i-it would be the worst thing, but I -- I didn't -- I was no -- in nowhere. I was with -- you see, the light I'm getting to my eye already, sorry. Okay?

Q: That's alright, take your glasses off.

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A: Yeah. You know, I -- I was in a bad situation. My husband worked in Tel Aviv, so he was there a whole week, he came Friday home, for Saturday. In -- and in Tel Aviv -- don't want to say it.

Q: Okay, just wa -- go on saying something else then. You don't want to talk about that.

A: Yi -- it's -- it's -- it's na -- it's a filmit, no?

Q: [indecipherable] you want me to stop? Okay.

A: A minute.

Q: We'll stop for a second.

A: About this --

Q: Okay, so we -- we go on, and it was you were not in a very good situation at that time.

A: Yeah, because we lived in -- in -- in -- in a barrack, and I got pregnant, and my husband wasn't good t -- a good husband, and so I didn't want to stay there. That's what I want to go run away fr-from -- from anything. So I went -- we were -- he too, he -- we went to -- to Canada. And in Canada, we -- we -- my uncles came, and they rented for me two rooms with a family. They didn't have children, and my little one was a half a year old. And they played with him, and it -- he was a fun for them. He -- he didn't know another country, only Canada. He came six months old. So, in -- and my -- my oldest was about -- they weren't in school yet, they were in kindergar ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 63 -- went to kindergarten, you know? So I had three baby -- three kids, and -- and I had to -- a miserable life, because I wasn't happy, and he did things what I didn't like. And so we stayed there for thir -- 12 years.

Q: 12 years?

A: 12 years.

Q: Did you work at that time? No, you stayed home with --

A: No. I stayed home with the children, and he didn't giv -- my father was that time in -- my father went to work, and he said, "I help you threw him out -- thray -- threw him out -- throw him out -- throw him out." But I -- you know how it is, he didn't let himself be thrown out. And then I -- and ye -- I don't know if you know the story from Janush Korchuk. He went with the children to the -- to the gas chamber. He was Janush Korchuk's child, okay, before the war.

Q: He was [indecipherable]

A: In -- ina -- ina ho -- in a -- ina -- he was a -- a orphan, so he was in Janush Korchuk's orphanage. I thought he has a good im -- upbringing, he's a good man, okay? That's what -- Janush Korchuk's story, you know? And he was his father.

Okay? That's all.

Q: That was your husband?

A: That was my husband. So -- http://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: So it was not really a help for you in this case that he was also a survivor, and that you could [indecipherable]

A: And -- and -- and he was worse when he survived than before, as a survivor, because he got -- he made a lot of money, he had a business. He made a lot of money. When he died, the children didn't have one penny, and -- and not I, only strange people, a -- a -- a woman from -- not El Salvador, but th-the other ones, what they come here to -- to -- to -- she took care of him, he -- he -- she bought the house for his money, and another guy who -- who was his -- what do you call it?

Took care of his money, took all the money, about a million dollars, okay?

Q: So what kind of work did your husband do then? He was -- he became a businessman?

A: He -- he had here in -- he became -- he went to school, and he became a beautician, and then he had a hair stylie salon, okay?

Q: In Canada, already, or --

A: Here, here, here, here. And -- and -- on -- on Pico, and -- and -- and Doheney, okay?

Q: What -- what did he do in Canada though?

A: He -- he -- he -- he went to school there, to -- to -- to be -- because he didn't have a--a--a trade.

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Q: Rose, how did you experience the Canadians? Did you feel -- did you talk at all about your experience [indecipherable] experience?

A: Oh yeah. That time it -- nobody talked. I didn't talk about here, too. I didn't talk, and nobody talked, in -- in -- in Canada. They ask me what is this, I said my telephone number. Nobod -- y-you understand, it's --

Q: You looked -- you - you pointed at your number, at your tattoo.

A: Yeah?

Q: You have to say this, because the listeners can't see what you're --

A: Oh yeah, I'm pointing on my -- mine telephone number. My number on my arm.

It's 47114, and a half a Jew star -- a half a Jew's star. So -- that's from Auschwitz - - from Birkenau. And then, you see, i-i-in there, it was a very beautiful country, I loved Canada. I would never leave Canada, never, if it wouldn't be so cold. It was very, very -- in the winter, it cold. And -- and by my -- he left to America. He -- we waited seven years for the -- the quota, the Polish quota. We ca -- he had the papers, and I was with him in a passport, and he said he ra -- he went to America, and he said, "I'm going to send for you." And I didn't want to go, so he -- he sent me papers from a lawyer, that if I'm not going to come to the United States, he's going to sue me for desertion, okay? Can you imagine? And he -- in meantime, it was vacation, he took the children for th-the -- he said -- a friend went to Canada, and he said, "Bring the children here," two of them, not the oldest, and the oldest didn't http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 66 want to go. So he said, "I'm not going to send you the children, I'm going to sue you for desertion, and I'm going to keep the children," okay? So that was my life, and I came here -- after a year I went to work in Canada, I worked as a cashier in a big restaurant, and I -- and I -- you know, I didn't want to come. So he -- he was bombarding, and I said how I -- without the children, I said, "Mark, let's go." Let's go, and I -- yeah, and he went to Philadelphia. And I said, "If he -- if you going to stay in Philadelphia," he called me -- wh-whenever he called on the phone, I said, "What do you want?" That's the way I -- we -- we -- we communicate. And he said, "T want you to come." I said, "Not to Philadelphia. When you -- if you going go to - - to California, I come." So, the children were here, he came to California, and I came to California.

Q: Why California?

A: Because of the sun, and th-the -- the beauty of it, it's warm. I -- what do I have to go, I have winter in -- in -- in Montreal, why should I come to winter to -- to s -- to Philadelphia? It's cold there.

Q: There was one more question about -- about Canada. After so many years, you at least for 12 years found a country where you could --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- learn the language --

A: Yeah, yeah.

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Q: -- you could settle down a little bit. How was it to adjust to a normal life again, and did you find any happiness? In what did you find any happiness there?

A: In -- in ca -- in -- in ca --

Q: In Canada.

A: Everything. We were -- you know, like a lot of people came to -- to Canada, a lot. I came even with a Ukrainian family. She came from France by boat. I was sick, and she took care of my children on the boat because I was very sick on the boat, coming from France to here. Because I had to go to France from Israel, and for France, I came to Halifax, to -- to calif -- to Canada. And so I -- she took care, and we became the best friends, til she died here. She got married, then she married -- to California, and she died. And we were the best friends. She was an -- a Ukrainian lady, she was -- she had cancer. So I came here, to Canada, because it was a lot of greenhorns, you know, coming from all over, to ba -- Canada was a easy country to come in. After the war they let us in. Here, they didn't let us in. They didn't want to even the little children let in, okay? So there, they let us in, and we came all to there. From there, we start, you know, working where you want to go, where you gon -- really want to live. I want to live in Canada. I loved Canada. They were nice, and you know, the -- the people were very nice to you, and they -- even the -- the French Canadian, we didn't have anything to do with them, but they didn't know Juif, or -- or -- or Jew. No, they didn't. They just were nice to each other. We were - http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 68 - we were like -- more like in Europe in Canada. Then, you see, they have -- like I -- I -- I was two years ago, when my father -- brother died, I -- I -- used to go -- ina year I was five times in Montreal. So -- because he was very, very sick, he's had liver cancer. So, there you go to the -- to the shopping center, you meet all of them, because they live all -- always the -- the Jews -- not only the Jews, only th-the European people live in one area. You know, not f -- the French. In one -- and there, you -- you met everybody when you go to -- went to the -- to the mall. You -- you went to Cavandish mall, my God, in Montreal, Cavandish mall, you maneet everybody you want. And this is a country like European. You were close to everybody. You met, you talked, you -- you go to weddings, and to -- to -- you know, here -- I live here, somebody -- I have a friend, she -- she moved out there, in -- in -- in there, and you know, you -- they live all over, and now, in the old -- old age, everybody there -- one is sick, and one died, and one had ol -- has Alzheimer's, and -- and one doesn't know who she is, and this is -- this is really very, very sad.

And -- and I am really very lonely, alone. Mine children -- one lives in -- in -- in Arizona, and -- and one lives in Los Gatos mountains in northern California, and he lives in Oregon, okay? And I live here, by myself. Sometimes I sit and I talk to the walls, because my friends -- only I have one neighbor, she's a German Jew, and we -- she calls, and I call. But we don't -- we -- we don't -- you know, we don't come together, we just talk on the phone. I have a few -- it's -- it's an American woman, http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 69 not a Jew, but she lives on mine street, and -- and Julia calls, and she said, "Rose, where do you live?" She lives on mine street, only no -- south of Wiltshire, but on the same Ninth Street. We know each other for 38 years. So she ask me where do you live. So, you see where the brain are? One I-lives on 24" Street, and sometime [indecipherable] Polish woman, Wanda, and she -- she said, "You know what? How is the weather by you?" I said, "This -- it's raining." Isn't this -- isn't this --

Q: You both live in Santa Monica --

A: Both in Santa Mo -- and the -- th-the one on -- on Ninth Street said, "You know what, it's pouring -- no, it's so pouring here. How is by -- no, it's so sunny here." And I said, -- "and how is by you?" I said, "By me, Julia, is raining. It" s -- I have rain, and a storm, and -- and hailing. It's terrible." She said, "Really?" So, you see, that's the people I live now. I -- I, thank God, touch wood, I knocked in the wood, that I have my -- all my brains together. Maybe it's heritage, I don't know. I don't know, but I -- I know -- the other day my son was looking something in my car -- I drive a car -- m-my son looked something in my car, just to touch up his car, he has a white car, too. And I said, "You know, 10 years ago I think I bought a touch up thing, and it's in my glove compartment." And he said, "You kidding." And I -- you remember, I said, "Yes, I have two of them." He found two of them. You know --

Q: I could -- I couldn't do that.

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A: I -- [remember everything what's in, and what's there, and what's here, and what I have in the house.

Q: Let's try to remember how it was when you came -- when you came to California. I need to get back to California.

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Q: So, you have still -- you had dreams and expectations when you came here, this is where you wanted to be, in California. How was it when you --

A: Not dreams.

Q: Not dreams.

A: Better -- better than alone there, with children in Canada. Not dreams, I came from -- for the children, because he had them here, for necessory. But I liked it. I like the weather. I liked -- it was freedom that time. Now, they have the computers, everything they know about you. That time, nobody -- it's was mine private life.

Nobody mixed in in mine children, and nobody mixed in in any of the -- of that life.

Now, everybody has -- knows what you eat today, when you go to the bathroom.

That's not right, okay? That's very, very bad. They take away you children for foster homes. Is it better, a foster home, there than that [indecipherable] parent? No.

I -- I was very depressed because I am -- I am -- I'm falling in most of the time in a depression. So, I have here even, in that picture, mine social wor -- not a social USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 71 worker, she's a -- what do you call it? Psychologist. That's my psychologist I used to go to.

Q: Th-The depression, where di -- where do you --

A: Th-That comes very often to me, because I am depressed. I -- didn't I go through enough to be depressed, in au -- and my life today is -- you know, I have depression with my son, I have -- I -- it -- it's depression. I have nothing against this country, I love this country. This is my country, and here I'm going to die, and -- and here I lived for in -- f -- since 1962, I am here, okay? And so a -- it's my country, it's so many years, and I -- but I don't like th -- the mixing in. That's -- that's the only thing I don't like here, because that's nobody's business what -- they don't ask me how you live, but what you have. You understand? They don't -- they go into you, like you own -- owe anybody something. I don't owe a penny anybody. When I charge something, I buy only what I can afford, and when the credit card comes to pay, I pay in full. I never -- I -- if I paid one penny interest, anybody, so help me God, it's not true. Okay? Never. Because I live in my way, what -- how I can live. I don't overdraw. I live, and I know that I -- today I spend so much, and so much -- you know, for this month, I can't afford no more. This is this -- I bought a dress this -- th -- I didn't buy dresses for years, but if I bought a dress, I said, that's enough.

Next time, when I'm going to have the money, I bought everything for cash, in what a [indecipherable] year, okay? Nothing for -- for payments, nothing, because this is ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 72 the rules, th-then they -- they make 47,000 dollars, 50,000 dollars a month, and they complain that they don't have money to live on. I say, in America is no hunger. If you buy a chicken for when it's on sale, and you can eat a chicken a whole week, and you not hungry. And bread is cheap enough that you can afford a bread, and milk, okay? So, it's no hunger in America. And that's -- that's -- I tell with my -- I said, "If I see those homeless, that they eat from the garbage," I said, "this is not the way America is built. Because it's food plenty, if you want to work." Okay, and you spent -- n-not spending your money on -- on booze, and on -- and on -- and on dope. Okay? That's what it is.

Q: Y-You said that for many years you didn't buy a dress.

A: No.

Q: So I --

A: Because I don't need it. I have.

Q: So how was -- what -- what did you do in the beginning, did you work?

A: I worked all the time. I worked al -- I worked when I came here. So I was with -- my father wa -- came to visit me for nine and a half months, and my husband didn't -- and I had a -- a two bedroom apartment for a hundred dollars a month. And I had my -- I went to a bakery to work. So, in the rest -- for the -- to -- to -- to pay so little, I washed the steps in the -- in the building. I was the manager, a big manager, ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 73 washing steps in the bil -- in the building, but I did. I didn't put my hand out, and I wasn't -- how you call it when you get from the government the money?

Q: S-Social --

A: Welfare.

Q: Yeah, welfare.

A: I wasn't on welfare, ever. Nobody -- I didn't ask for a handout. I worked like a -- I -- like a decent person has to do, work for you living. Until today, nobody gave me anything, and I have 11,000 dollars for Social Security a year, and I live on it, okay?

And ta -- I got my husband's, and I am glad, and I am happy. I would never eat meal on wheels, because I -- I -- I -- I would throw up, I wouldn't eat that. So, I make -- I said, I rather eat a piece of bread, with a pe -- with an onion, in a -- in -- in -- in whatever -- i-it -- it's cheap, this -- this week, I -- I -- on sale, I buy. I -- I don't, because I -- you know, I -- I -- I can live. I can live. I-I-It's -- it's -- it's not a hunger in America. You can live for how much you make. I have the few dollars, you know, like I get. Oh yeah, I get a pension from Canada, 48 dollars a month. That's all pension, because I didn't work enough there, only a year.

Q: Well, it helps [indecipherable]

A: Yeah. So -- but you see, I -- I make my living comfortable in my -- what do you say? In my -- you know, what I can afford, yeah. And -- and that's what I make my living, and I -- I buy what I -- sometimes I see something, I buy a ba -- my friend ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 74 bought me this television, a good friend. She had -- she was a princess in -- in Poland, and she had a lot of money. She doesn't live here any more. She said, "I buy for me a -- a Sony, and you buy yourself." So, she bought me a -- a Sony. But I -- | -- ] -- that's not a handout. She wanted, because I did for her a lot. And so she said, "You my friend, I want to buy you a present." I said, "No, you don't." "I want." So anyway, that's what I ha-have. The furniture I bought -- my friend died, and the daughter sold me for cheap, furniture, okay? My friend, she was 90 se -- 94 when she died. She -- she said I am her daughter, you know? She died in -- a few years ago, in 1990 -- in 1990. So she - her daughter said that -- End of Tape Three, Side A Beginning Tape Three, Side B

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number three, side B. And now I have a few questions that go a little bit all over the place.

A: Yeah.

Q: We'll see where it leads us. The first question is, did you ever think about getting rid of your -- of your number?

A: No. I am proud that I'm alive. My -- my -- that's not a shame, to have a number, because this is -- I'm a -- proud that I -- I over -- I -- I li -- I live longer than Hitler, okay? So.

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Q: Did you ever have experiences with Americans who saw it, and who --

A: Yes, to express, yes. I -- you know, it was a movie, the Holocaust, a long time ago, the first Holocaust, and I came in -- I lived here for -- I lived here for 26 years, so I have in the corner there, by Montana, a -- a s -- a store. It used to be save -- Safeway, and now it's Pavilion. So I used to go to sa -- went to Safeway after it finished, the movie, and -- and I was paying money by the cash register, and I was standing like, you know, by the cash register, and a guy was standing behind me, and he grabbed my arm, and he started kissing from my fingers til -- and I said -- and I grabbed my hand, and I said, "What are you doing?" He said, "Lady, I am so glad that you're with us. I am so grateful that you live." Okay? Then, another one -- a lot of them, but the -- to just -- what makes me remember. And he said -- I went to Kaiser Permanente, and -- and a -- and I ask a -- they're -- call themselves now African Americans, yeah. So they African American. So I -- I saw a African American. I -- am not ashame I'm a Jew, and they shouldn't be ashamed of they Black, but they want to be called African Americans, fine with me. So I -- I met -- and I asked them, when do they open that window, because it was lunchtime, and he said to me, in 15 minutes. And he looked, and he said, "Oh, my God, you -- is this what you really -- were you really are?" And I said -- I forgo -- I forgetting sometimes that I have a number. And a -- and I said, "What do you mean, what I am? I am what I am." And he said, "No, that number." And I said, "Yes, I was http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 76 there, wer -- what you think?" And he said, "Mine God. Tell me, tell me, and may I -- may I hug you? May I give you a hug? May I give you a kiss?" I said, "Of course." You know? And so anoth -- and he called, "Johnny, Johnny," to another guy, and he said, "I have here herstory. Look, come here." So you see?

Q: Was -- was that tou -- was that touching to you?

A: Very touching, very touching. I c -- I cried. Very touching.

Q: So it didn't disturb you at all?

A: No, no. Both times -- many times, but those times, when they grab my hand, and they s -- they -- they -- they know what it is, they s -- I -- a -- they say, I am so glad that you're with us, I am so glad that you behi -- you know, with the living, and -- and -- and -- and I gra -- I am grateful for it. I said, "What do you have to be grateful for?" And they said, "Because life, any life is a life," okay? So, I don't mind when they ask me about the number. I had a friend that she were -- I don't know where she is now, a plaster -- a -- a -- a -- a -- a -- what do you ti -- th-the -- the tapes, the plastic tapes on -- on -- on -- on top of it, not to show her number. I am not ashame of it. I didn't steal, I didn't kill. They didn't give me that number because I was in jail. They gave me that number that I'm a Jew, and I am not ashamed to be a Jew. I am proud to be a Jew. I like every -- every -- anyone who is nice, no matter if he's a Jew, or a Catholic, or -- or a Protestant, or a -- a-- a--a--a Japanese, or whatever he is, doesn't matter. Yellow or green or blue, doesn't matter http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 77 to me. If he is a -- a nice person, I admire them, I'm their friend. But if they are not nice, it can be a Jew, and they are nice, I don't want to talk to them.

Q: Did you ever meet Germans of the war generation, or the second generation [indecipherable] America?

A: No. Germans, yeah, I have a friend. She is from the first generation, but they left to -- in 1938, they run away from Germany to -- to Israel, okay? So I have a lot -- I - - I told -- I met a -- a girl, Helga, and she used to work with me in a bakery, and she was German. But she was a young -- she -- that time she was about 30 years old.

She was a young girl, she didn't know. She knew what the father told her, that it's all a lie. The Jews are making up stories, it didn't happen. Okay? And then she wanted to know from me, tell me the truth. She was my best friend, I worked with her.

Q: On the telephone when we spoke, you did tell me about an episode at a party where you met s -- a father of a friend, or of -- of your girlfriend's son, of your --

A: Oh, oh. That's -- that's -- that's -- that -- that's what --

Q: Did you want to talk about --

A: Yeah. That -- that Helga worked with me together in -- in the bakery, by Victor Vennish -- no? Yeah, by Victor Vennish in the bakery, and she used to ask me questions, [indecipherable] tell me this, and she used to come to my house, and I used to go to her house. She had -- she lived in -- in Westwood that time. And -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 78 and then she said, "You know what? I am going be -- have a dinner. Mine parents are coming from Germany, and my father said that he was in the Wehrmarkt, and he doesn't know anything what happened in -- in Germany. It wasn't true, what happened." Whatever -- she said, "Father, something like this happened?" And he said, "No, not what I know. I was in the Wehrmarkt, and I don't know anything." So when I came to dinner, I said, okay, if Helga invite me, and she said the parents are so nice, and he was a Wehrmarkt, he do-doesn't even know what the SS means?

So I was so stupid, that was years ago, you know? About 30 years ago. So I was still stupid, and I never talked about those things, because I kept it in my subconscious mind for many, many years, til it came to -- really to Washington Memorial.

Q: We'll talk about that soon.

A: Yeah. I never -- my children -- a few years ago, my son said, "Mother," in -- in - - in -- in -- in the northern California, in Los Gatos, "sit down. Tell me a little about you." And I start, and I talked about two -- two hours. And he said, "I never knew about those things, you never told me." I said, "I didn't tell anybody," because I cried when I talk about it. So --

Q: But why --

A: Then -- then, it -- my girlfriend's daughter took me to the -- she made an appointment for -- for me, her mother died bef -- before that, took me to -- to the -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 79 no, she said, "I made an appointment for you by -- in the -- in the memorial in Washington." She lives in Potomac. And she said, "I made an appointment, I want to -- you to be interviewed." I said, "Why? I don't want to. I don't want to talk about it." She said, "You will. Open, open." So I went there, and -- and I talked for five hours, and -- and then -- now, it comes -- I watched those movies and everything, it -- I have every tape. I taped all the movies, and I had bought movies. I bought e -- Kolchuk's -- Kolchuk's tape for 79 dollars in the memorial there, in Washington. I have -- I bought "Schindler's List," in -- in the memorial there. I could tape it, but it was to me something very, very new, what they show, you know? And so I talked to my son, he said, "I never knew about it." So I always kept everything in my subconscious mind. I didn't talk.

Q: But was it to protect --

A: To Helga, no. To Helga -- she saw the numbers, so she just pulled from me. I said I was in -- in Auschwitz. I was in -- in -- in concentration camp. So, I wa -- I -- I didn't tell her in details, absolutely not. So -- but when her parents came, I -- we sit down to dinner. She made a beautiful dinner, and she said to her fa -- to her father, "Daddy, you see? This is proof that it was something there." He said, "I know, I was there, I saw it." I got up, I finished my dinner, and I said, "Helga, I have to go. I'm sorry, I'm going, because I -- I forgot I have to do something," and http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 80 she said okay, she understood. And she said, "Rose, I see you tomorrow." And I went home.

Q: Was he in fact saying that he had been --

A: Yes.

Q: -- in a concentration camp?

A: He -- no, he was working with the Germans, with the -- with the Heftlinger, you know. Well, you know, that's a Heftlinger. With the -- with the -- with gefanginner, with our -- with -- with -- the -- the -- the concentration camp people.

Q: So he had lied to his daughter?

A: Of course. And she said, "You told me you didn't know about it." So.

Q: I just want to ask you w --

A: Yes.

Q: -- one more question about -- to be just clear [clock chiming]. So it's six --

A: Okay.

Q: -- it's six o'clock.

A: Yeah, that's okay.

Q: I will ask you the question. Why exactly -- try to say a little bit more about why it was that you didn't talk -- that you didn't talk about it to your children. Was it to protect them? Was it to protect you?

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 81

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they -- they weren't interested. They didn't ask me, and -- and I didn't want to say to -- to have pity on me. That they going to say, "Oh, she's [indecipherable] up everything for -- that she was in the concentration camp," everything, you know, to -- to feel sorry for. I -- I was afraid.

Q: So you didn't want to cry --

A: I didn't want to cry. I cried on the movies, when I saw. And they s -- ma -- my girlfriend asked me, why are you watching those movies? I said, "Because I can cry out loud, and feel what they -- what I felt that time when I was there." Because "Schindler's List," was just a -- a country house, a country place, you know? A -- a -- an enjoyment. I wasn't in a house like this. "Schindler's List" was to me just a very -- a very easy episode by the Germans.

Q: How do you feel about these movies? Do you think --

A: They should show -- the children should never forget. Nobody should ever, never forget what happened. My -- I ask my children -- I have tapes wha -- from me, what I'm -- they made my tapes. Why don't you look at them some other time?

My children are not interested. They don't feel, and that's what I don't talk. You understand?

Q: Yeah. Although, when your son asked you once --

A: Once --

Q: Right.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 82

A: -- he asked me. He has the tapes. I said, "Why don't you look at the tape?" He doesn't have time. I said, "That's not -- that's not an excuse." Okay? This is my life.

This is my life. And when I see a movie, what's really hurt my -- what I went through, I -- you know, I had 25 on my back, and I had -- I was -- I running from that, and I was -- terrible things. And -- and I said, in --in that -- and if I see a movie, I sit and cry loud, loud. Because this I can do, nobody is going to say stop it.

Or my girlfriend, she wasn't in the concentra -- she run. She was in Germany, and then she went to Israel in deg38. She said, "Why are you watching that junk?" Okay?

To me, it's my life, it's not junk. Everyone had a different life there. Every minute is different by millions and millions of people. And so mill -- so many millions dead. So my -- my mother I never saw after she was 45. I never saw her in my life. I don't know where she's buried. I don't know if she's cremated, or she -- where she i -- her bones are. Not my sisters, not my whole family. Only my father I buried in Montreal. Me, when they say, "Why are you want to be cremated?" I said, "Because I don't want it -- my mother was a young woman, and she -- who knows where her bones is. I want to be cremated like all the Jews were." Okay? That's not a sin, to be cremated. They -- the Jews, the very religious Jews said it's a sin [indecipherable], because you have to be buried in Jewish religion. And I said it's not true. I -- if th -- if they could be -- I don't know where they ashes are, what am I different? That "m alive? I'm not. It's not alive, it's live with the deaths, all my life. I live with the

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 83 memory of them. I used to scream in middle of the night, and they used to wake me up. They -- you -- you didn't have child -- so many children that time, I -- I said, "T'm looking for my sons, for my children." You didn't have the children, you have them now. Okay, so why should I be better than anybody else? I can be cremated. I don't have to -- they not going to come to my grave anyway. Because one lives here, and one there, they not going to -- I, when I come to Montreal, I go to my father. When I was in Montreal, my -- my brother was dying, I went to my father's grave, and I said, "Father, please, have mercy on -- take him already, because he is suffering terrible." And he listened to me, I suppose. He took him in a short time later. In a few days, a few weeks maybe.

Q: Do you have anybody you can talk about --

A: No.

Q: Anybody who had similar experiences? Not -- nobody?

A: I don't -- everybody when -- you know, when you say to my friends, it hurts me here. Me, too. When you went through this, I did, too. Oh, you don't even know what I went through. You know, so I don't talk to anybody. I talk to myself. In one - - when my children don't give me the respect, I don't want anything from them. I don't take from him -- from them. I don't ask for -- for help, for money. I pay my rent, I pay my food, I pay my clothes. I don't go any -- any -- I don't han -- han -- put my hand out for -- for giving me something. Not to the government, not to

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 84 anybody. I am on my own. It's my life, and I have to take care of it, as much as I can. And if -- if my children don't understand me, they don't owe me anything. I didn't -- they didn't ask for be born, okay? And I am just glad that I'm alive, and I can take care of myself. And I don't want anybody's handout. And that's what -- and I can't cry. Everybody who u -- why do you have to cry? And it's as -- it's a Jewish word, and it's a -- I -- I think the words were, you cr -- when you cry, you cry a-alone, when you laugh, the whole world laughs with you. Okay? And that's the truth. Nobody wants to hear you crying, nobody wants to see you crying. If the - - I cry, my children say, "Why are you crying, what -- what -- what's wrong?

Nothing's wrong with you, why you crying?" Okay? They don't know their grandparents. They -- they knew my father, and my brother. But they don't know my mother, they don't knew my sisters. That's my sister, on top there, you see? The -- the blonde. This is the one was downstairs. She -- she was a beauty. Ev -- all of them. I was the ugly one in the house. And I -- and I -- and I don't even know where the -- where the bones are. So why not crying? They -- they -- they come to me at night, and -- and I talk to them. Okay? I -- I dream about them. Not to my children, to my children they are just a picture on the worl. On the wall -- on -- I even don't know what I'm talking -- on the wall. And that's -- and they are mine, mine blood -- flesh and blood. See? That's what I -- that -- what -- what can I say? I just say that's what I see with the Ku Klux Klans, and with everything in here, and they let it USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 85 happen. This is n -- this is unbelievable, because Hitler started that way, and they shouldn't -- why? That he is Black, and I am Jew? I-It was -- it's one God, what we all believe, that he-he had a son, and we are his children, too. He -- he wasn't the only son, he had many sons. Jesus had -- is a son of God. I am a son -- a daughter of God. Who made -- who -- who made mine life? Okay, my father and mother, but somebody gave that life to me. God. And everybody believes in one. It's one, only one. And I believe in that God. And those Ku Klux Klans, what they doing in scott - - in scott -- scott -- i-is -- scottie or something, you know, like by -- by -- someplace in the United State. They were marching, and they were killing, and the -- they -- they -- they are burning now synagogues. The German burned my family. My -- my father's, my mother's sisters and brothers, and my father's, in a synagogue, okay?

They put them all in a synagogue, not they went there. They put them, and they burned that synagogue with the people in it. So -- it's -- it's -- it's -- it's -- it's unbelievable, and we shouldn't let that happen again. And they should show the pictures, and talk about it, and everything, because this is very important. Now young kids see me on the street, and know -- they know what it is. Before, they ask me what number is it. Mine granddaughter said, "Why do you have that number on the hand?" And I said, "Becau -- that's my telephone number. Daddy didn't tell you?" She said okay.

Q: But that has changed now, a little bit?

ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 86

A: No.

Q: The younger --

A: No, no, no, no. They don't talk about it. They don't ask me. Once, my son asked me about it, and -- and -- and -- and -- and they don't ask me. I said, "Why don't you -- look, I have so many tapes of it. M-My own tapes." Nobody's looking at them.

Q: But do you think the younger children now know a little bit more [indecipherable]

A: Not mine, not mine.

Q: No, I mean in general.

A: Yeah, the children in general, yes. A lot of generations, bu -- other people. Mine children believe in science. They don't believe in anything. They don't -- I said, "Tt's a God." What God, what? Okay, maybe it's there. But they don't believe in anything. They -- the children don't know what the grandmother went through.

They don't talk about it.

Q: Are they observing of the Jewish tradition --

A: No, nothing, nothing. They observing -- they observing Christmas, okay? They put a -- my s-son down -- on -- on -- in -- in -- in Los Gatos mountains, has a cathedral ceiling, so he buys a 16 foot tree, and that's the holiday. I gave him a Hanukkah lamp, and I said here -- she is -- is there with the Hanukkah, my http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 87 granddaughter, he doesn't show it in the house, cause he has clients, they don't -- shouldn't know that he is Jewish?

Q: What is he doing?

A: He is in why -- vineyards, but they know, because a guy as -- said to him once, "Eddie, you so smart like a Jew." And he said, "And you are good business an -- me -- you make delicious wine, and you smart like a Jew." He said, "Because I am one." I said, " You said it?" Okay? Because he gave him a compliment, that he's so smart.

Q: Was the --

A: But it hurts me. It's my life, and it hurts me, it's my children. I -- I said, the war didn't change me. I -- I think I am a bet -- a bit better believer than I ever was, because I am alive, and I have to give respect for mine deaths, for my family, for all the deaths, for all the millions

Q: You did not want to speak about it for a long time, but when you did the interview for the Holocaust Museum --

A: I did.

Q: Was that important to you in some way, did it [indecipherable]

A: Yes, opened my brain, and said why don't you talk about it? You should, you get -- when I cry about it, and talk about it, I feel much better later, because you -- I cried not on anybody's shoulders, on my own, okay? That's the truth. That's the USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 88 truth, I am not -- I didn't finish to be a -- a -- a -- a cul -- a psychologist, but Iam a very good psychologist. I -- I -- I know -- I know people's mind, and I know -- and my psychologist told me when I went to her, "Tell me you as -- you are a child." I said, "Don't start with me. I wasn't molested, and I wasn't," -- what do you call it yen -- when you beat the child?

Q: Abused? Spanked?

A: Abused. Abused. I wasn't abused, and I wasn't molested, and don't start that. I am talking with my life now, that that's what I was, forget it, because I had a vun -- a wonderful parents, and wonderful life, okay? It's gone, I can't talk about it, but don't start, did somebody did -- do this to you? I said, ""D -- you can put that in children's mind, and the children accuse the parents for what it wasn't true."

Q: Could she help you in any way?

A: No, she didn't. I was a year with her, and she didn't -- she didn't help me. When I am depressed, and when I am hurt, I cry, and nothing can be done. A -- before you came, I took a valium, okay? Just to calm down, because I'm getting very hyper.

So, I took a valium, and I said I have to talk to you, not flying with my hands like this, because I know how I am. I said to the doctor, "Why should I talk with my hands? I am afraid -- I am ashamed to be with somebody, that a stranger, because they think that I am a nut." And I -- he said, "Take a valium." In middle of the day.

Q: But so many people speak with their hands [indecipherable]

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 89

A: No, no, I just -- no, I just -- when I very, very hyper. I -- I -- I try always to hold my hands like this, you know, because I'm hyper, so I can -- I -- I -- I -- sometimes I throw the coffee down, because I talk, I talk. And it's not a talk what I talk, that's not my way of talking, but when -- when -- sometimes I keep my hands like this, because I know when I am hyper. I know. So I go for a -- for a valium. I have valiums. The doctor gives me a valium once in awhile. About three -- I ask about 30 once in awhile, because it's not always -- I talk about it, and at -- now it's always that I am hyper. I am most of the time hyper, because I -- so I -- I take it the way it is, because I have a lot of troubles with my -- with my son.

Q: We should stop here. This is the end of tape three, side B, interview with Rose Warner.

End of Tape Three, Side B USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 90 Beginning Tape Four, Side A

Q: This is a continuation of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Warner. This is tape number four, side A. I have a few -- I keep saying that over again, I have a few follow up question, then we talk for so long, but my first question is, you divorced your husband. Did you marry again?

A: Yes.

Q: Who was he, and when [indecipherable]

A: Im -- I -- I married the Warner brother's cousin, the first cousin of the old Warner brother, and I -- I lived with him a year, and he took me for a -- for whatever I had, money. He was a ca -- calm man. He came from Cuba, and he was a ni -- he was a ver -- I -- I fell in love with him, h-he told me he loves me. That was in 1970. So, and I -- we annulled the marriage.

Q: And since then you have been alone?

A: Mm-hm. Completely.

Q: Did you --

A: I didn't want it, that's my choice.

Q: You didn't trust anybody any more. You're shaking your head, so that's --

A: No.

Q: -- that's a no.

A: No.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 91

Q: Did you ever go back to Poland?

A: No. My son -- may I say that? My son asked me the other day when he was here -- he came for business. "Mother, if I would am -- I wanted to know -- th-the children to know their roots. Would you go back to Poland?" No -- "You went -- you never went back, would you back -- go back to Poland with me?" And I said, "Yeah, with you, yes," because he said, "You know Polish, and you know where to go, and I would love the children to know the roots of my family." Yeah.

Q: And?

A: And -- that not -- that's the end.

Q: So you didn't agree to do it?

A: He didn't -- yeah, I said yes, but he didn't ask. That was not long ago, he ask me.

Q: So you may go?

A: 1 -- I'm -- if ""m going to live so long, I may go, you know, with him, and I didn't want to go, because I didn't want to walk on the bloods -- on the blood of my -- of mine kin, okay?

Q: Is it difficult to keep the memory alive? Is it import -- or is it important to you to keep your memory alive?

A: Yes, very much so.

Q: What do you do?

A: I just think about it a lot. I do nothing, I just think and I cry.

USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 92

Q: Do you go to -- to survivor meetings, or do you [indecipherable]

A: Very seldom, because fe -- when you come, everybody's talking about it, and everybody is nonsense, and you know. I -- I had my own, I don't want to hear -- I -- when I go, I want to hear about nice things. I don't want to go through again, and again, and again. It's -- it's -- it's just, you know, I -- I -- it's enough that I have it all -- all the time in my brain, I want to lose it for a little while.

Q: What is there that gives you joy? What do you do when you want to feel good?

A: When I'm with my children, it gives me joy, but I'm very seldom with them.

Q: Do you have hobbies, do you like music?

A: Very much. I like -- I like music. Not today's music, of course. I li -- I like Pavarotti. I like tose -- I have beautiful music. I -- I like good movies, and I don't like those sex and killing, and that's not mine kind. I like everything what's nice to - - to see, and remember. | like classic music. I like everything what is in my heart, to listen to it. But when I -- my kids come into my car, they -- I have tapes, beautiful tapes, with beautiful music, with -- what is that junk in for? Okay? So, take it out.

Listen to you junk. That's all, but they don't understand that this is my life. My brother's -- used to play violin. My father was happy that he's playing already the fifth position when I was a little girl, okay? That's gone. And -- and when I'm alone, I watch what I like to watch. The other day they showed tangos from

http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 93 someplace on our -- or art. They watch -- I watch art. It's beautiful. They don't like it. They like shootshot, and that's it.

Q: What films did -- what -- what film have you seen recently [indecipherable]

A: Love stories. I love films -- love stories. I love family -- family movies. Like, you know, I cry when I see with the children, and with abusing the children, and I don't like that. I -- this hurts me. I like good movies. When a -- when it's a good movie, I go to the movies, even "Fly Away." You know, it was for children, I went to the movie, because it's something to your heart. I like movies what's left something in your head after it. Not just shooting and killing, and -- and -- and -- and -- and -- and -- and abusing, and raping. This is not my kind of mus -- o-of shows.

Q: It just occurred to me to ask you , what -- what sort of, events in this country, over the last years, what -- what has made an impact?

A: Nothing. I don't go any place. I have tried this, I sit always on -- in -- in the house. I used to go to beautiful -- that came from Poland, beautiful shows. You know, I used to go -- I used to go at -- everything was beauty. I used to go -- I didn't like Frank Sinatra, but Frank Sinatra was here, I went to -- to see his concert. I -- I used to like concerts. I don't go any more. I can't. First of all, the prices are so high that the other day it was something unti -- they had it in -- in -- in the Hollywood Bowl. It was a hundred dollars a ticket. I can't afford that, okay? So, I can't. I'd like http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 94 to see it, but I can't afford. I -- from the Jewish -- the Jewish Federation gave a hundred dollars a ticket. I can't afford a hundred dollars.

Q: Did you ever get compensation, by the way, from -- from Germany [indecipherable]

A: Yeah, I -- I -- I didn't th -- for many years. I -- not long ago, the -- the circle two put in, so I got -- or supposed to, 300 dollars a month, but it doesn't come 300 dollars. For three months I had 700 dollars, okay? For three months. This -- this time. It came a few -- a few weeks ago. So what is it? It's nothing, and I get that 11 tha -- thousand dollars a year from mine -- my husband's social security. And I lives, I lives, and I don't complain. Thank God for that.

Q: Were you ever asked to testify? I mean, you have seen so much, did you --

A: No, no, I didn't, because I didn't reveal myself. I didn't want to. I -- I -- "m telling you, I was -- it was here in my subconscious mind all my life. I didn't put it in the front, I had it there. This is what -- I don't -- and I have here al -- a Mexican friend, and -- y -- what do they know? What do they care? I don't talk to them about those things. I'm American. I don't talk to them about that -- those things, because it -- it's -- it's not -- it di -- it doesn't interest them. And I don't have to. I just keep it in my soul, in my heart, that's all. You can't | -- give your soul to anybody, because they don't understand.

Q: Why did you agree to do this interview? Was it important to you -- http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 95

A: I don't know. I wanted to call you a few -- a few days ago. I said to my friend, "I think I'm going to call, because I have her telephone number, and I'm going to call, and I am going to say that I have nothing to say, because my life is nothing to talk about." And she said, "Don't do it. Just say -- say it." No, to my son I said, "I think I'm going to call it off" He said, "No, go ahead. Do it if it makes you happy, do it." I said, "It doesn't make me happy, it's going to make me very miserable, but at least I am going to say what I feel here. What I have it all -- here in my heart." So.

Q: After we have talked now, do you think it was important that --

A: Yes, because you see, you can't tell a friend what hurts me here, because it's going to be all over. One is going to her -- and tell her, and one is going to tell her.

And I -- I don't want gossip. To you, I can say it, it's not gossip. You keep it. It's going to be on tape. If I want to listen to it, I listen, if I want to -- somebody to listen to it, let them listen, okay? And -- and when you going to have someplace those tapes revealed, in -- in many years later, I'm not going to be here, so I don't care.

Q: But do you think there's something in there that would -- that is import -- I mean

A: Everything is important. It can teach children to be better to their parents, to -- more feelings. To -- to -- to -- to give them more understanding. Everything is better than ab -- than the mother, and they -- they -- they just throw me in the face. You -- you -- you didn't like this ca -- Mark liked -- no, you -- Eddie liked a -- a -- a ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 96 chocolate parisienne, and you said you like a white parisienne. Can you imagine those such -- cakes? This is what they threw me in the face. You told Eddie this, you -- I didn't. I didn't. And you see, that's what I keep my mouth zipped, and that's it. I have nobody to talk to, and -- and children, you should be open with children. You should -- you should be able to open you soul, and you heart to the children. I am not. That's what -- if I open to a stranger, I know he's not -- you not going to tell why don't -- what -- you did this and this. I didn't do anything, I was the best mother in the world. I was lucky after the war, for the first child I had, that I still am able to bear children. And that was my -- my son and light. And they don't understand that, only that I told them not to do this, or not to do this. I taught them how to -- to behave, and how to -- how to have respect for older people, and how to -- to -- to do this. And how to -- how to be nice to people. They don't now. If I say something to my granddaughter that you shouldn't do this, you -- you -- you should take the book, and r-read, and use -- use -- you -- you all the time with the feet -- she is very hyper, that little one, because her mother is a drunk, and I think she was drinking when she was pregnant with her, and doping. And I said, "What does you mother do -- did?" When she remembering, she was three years old, she said, "She is partying."

Q: How many grandchildren do you have?

A: Three. My son who has the -- the -- the -- the vineyard has two. He said he's USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 97 going to -- he had them very late, because the -- the oldest is only 11 years old, because he said, "Til I'm not going to have a dynasty, I'm not having children." Okay? And -- and she is nine years old, the girl. Nine? Yeah, she is almost nine. So, you see -- so in -- and the third one doesn't have any, and he has one. So he is not with his -- it wasn't a wife, it was a girlfriend. He lived with her, and she took everything, and now he lives with her -- in -- in -- in ar -- I said, "Do you have water?" No. "Do you have a toilet?" No. "Do you have lights?" No. They live in the woods. And he's a doctor. I sent him to school to be a doctor. I said, "I pay for you the first year, 12,000 dollars, I pay for you," and I send him 500 dollars each month to live on. And then I said, "Take a -- a -- a loan," for the -- for the school, and he did. I don't know what he paid, or he didn't pay. She -- she spent everything. She owed his credit cards. They called me for 40,000 dollars he owes. She took on -- on dope. And she -- whatever the child want, had. That's what she wants from me, and I said, "I have hard made money, and I can buy you food, I can buy you clothes, what you don't have." She -- I bought her new clothes a few -- two weeks ago, and every piece of clothes for six -- for -- I bought -- I spent 500 dollars for them. So she had on her, four pair of shoes. She took new pants, and went to the garage, and - - and walked on the knees. And I said, "This is my hard made money, and I can't afford this. I can give you food, I can -- I bought," -- yesterday I said I'm not going to buy anything, she wants nachos, and she wants this and this, and I bought

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Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection USHMM Archives RG-50.549.02*0058 98 everything. I spent 13 dollars for -- just for her junk. And I am no good. I hate her, he says. You hate her, because you hate Rosie. His -- his girlfriend. And I don't hate her, I just want her to behave, and to do what's -- it's right. He said, "Yeah, you would like the hand on her, to -- to discipline her." I said, "Why not? She needs discipline."

Q: Did -- were you ever interested in politics?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: No. I am not interested in politics, I -- I don't like what sometimes d -- democrats are doing, sometimes the republic -- I like the democrats, because they are for old people, and they are really care, and -- and the -- the republican is for the rich people. I am a poor person, I like the democrats But I am in -- in -- 1 am -- I am not a politician, they are politicians. They work for me, and for you, and for everybody. So w-w-what am I going to do? Nothing. I say sometimes it's not right, it's a -- they shouldn't -- they shouldn't take away this, and they shouldn't do this, and -- and they shouldn't look in in you private life, because it's not nobody's business, okay? Nobody's business. Now it's -- it's -- if you have stucked away something no -- they -- they know about it. That's right. You can't -- you -- you used to say this is for my -- for my rainy day. But they know about everything, because the banks are the government. Am I right? You can't say nothing.

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Q: I'm supposed -- not supposed to say [indecipherable]

A: I-I know, you -- you -- you -- you -- you don't, but I am saying, that's -- that's p- priv -- they took -- I -- I loved America, and I still do, because it was a free country.

It's not any more. It's not free. Not -- I don't mean free the money, you have to work for ev -- everywhere for -- to make the money. Some is lucky, some are not lucky. I -- I worked very hard my life. So I made -- I -- I -- 1am lucky that I made something for my old age. I am lucky because | put it away. I stacked it away, every penny. And -- and -- and I was happy, oh, I have 10,000 dollars to put into the bank.

Can you imagine? It -- it -- it -- it was unbelievable, but I was happy, and -- and it was a free country. Now, whatever -- you can say anything, you can do anything, and -- and -- and -- and they -- they said in canda, y -- I come in, "What is your social security?" They know everything about me. That's not right. Y-Y-You -- you -- you -- you do -- do -- does the government have to know when I'm going to the bathroom?

Q: No.

A: The -- the government has to know what I'm doing i-if I eat today. They don't -- they don't give you, but they want to take. And that wasn't before. No way. That was a beautiful, beautiful country. You made whatever you made, and you didn't take from them, and you didn't ask for nothing. What else can somebody ask? I was lucky.

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Q: Is there anything that you would like to add Rose, because I think --

A: What shall I add? About what?

Q: [indecipherable] asked you question -- I don't know.

A: 1 -- I -- 1-- I would like to say I'm not a politician, that the politics -- the politics are too much in this country. Too much for us. For older people -- they should take more care of the older people, how they live. They live in the streets. I don't like to see the homeless. I don't like -- they look to -- to help other countries with the children, how about the children in America? They should help the children in America, because it's plenty of children hungry, and plenty of the -- of the streets, and plenty give -- make -- giving sex for money, because they need the money. And plenty of them dying of -- of AIDS, because they -- they have to live, tho -- the -- they don't care who they sleep with. This has to be taken care in America. I am not a politician, I am only an old lady, but I see what's wrong. And this is not right.

Why are you helping Honduras, or whatever in there, or koso -- Kosovo, that's a very tragic ti -- th -- you have in here, first you have to feed your own in the house, and then look behind you. Because if you full, then you look for something else to do, to help somebody else. Am I right?

Q: This time I would say I'm with you. This concludes the United States Holocaust Memorial interview with Rose Warner, and thank you very much, Rose, for speaking with us.

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A: You're welcome. You're very welcome.

End of Tape Four, Side A Conclusion of Interview