Document

MANIA JONAS MAYER May 3, 2013

Q: This is a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Mrs. Mania Jonas, or Yonas(ph), Mayer, on May 3", 2013, in Brooklyn, New York. And first of all, Mrs. Mania, thank you very much for agreeing to speak with us today.

A: You're welcome.

Q: Appreciate it. Il start, like I do with every interview, at the beginning. Please tell me where you were born, when you were born, and a little bit about your family.

A: I was born in Poland, in town Sa-Sanok, in 1924.

Q: What's the date?

A: Oh, wait a minute, I think December 24.

A2: December 15".

A: Oh, December 15".

Q: You were born December 15".

A: Fifteen, 1924.

Q: Okay. Were -- did you have brothers and sisters?

A: Yes, brothers, and we were seven children, and I was the youngest.

Q: Oh my. And how many of the seven were girls, how many were boys? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer : May 3, 2013

A: Four boys and three girls.

Q: Can you give me their names in a row, from oldest to youngest?

A: Yes.

Q: Okay.

A: The oldest was Avrumek(ph) -- Avrum(ph), then Joseph(ph), then was my sister Esther.

Q: Esther?

A: After her was my brother Shulim(ph), and then was Hilda, and Paul, and myself, Mania.

Q: So you were the -- uh-huh, man --

A: I was the seventh.

Q: You were the seventh. So you and your brother Paul, who we'll be speaking with as well, are the youngest of the family.

A: Yes.

Q: I see.

A: He was just -- he is just two years older from me.

Q: Okay. Were you spoiled because you were the baby of the family?

A: No.

Q: No? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer deg May 3, 2013

A: No, I wasn't.

Q: No, no. Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Were you the favorite, of the older ones?

A: I don't know. I don't know.

Q: Tell me a little bit about your mother and your father. What were their names, when were they born?

A: My father's name was Hermann(ph) Jonas. My mother was Rose Jonas. When they was born, I don't know the dates.

Q: You don't know the dates.

A: No, I don't know the dates.

Q: Okay. When -- when y -- your -- what are your first memories? Can you think far back, what are the first, earliest memories of your childhood?

A: Yes, I remember the photographer came to make a picture of the family, and I was sitting until he made the picture, I didn't have patient, I was a little girl. I run away. Then he went after me, and he said, come over, sit down and look here. You will see, a beautiful bird will go out from there. And then I was sitting, sitting, I didn't see a bird. But, he make the picture.

Q: Yeah. Do you remember the picture?

Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer deg May 3, 2013

A: remember the picture, yeah, I think we have it.

Q: That's interesting.

A: Yeah.

Q: That's sweet. And was it a -- was all your brothers and sisters, were they in the picture as well?

A: Yeah, not the oldest one. He never wanted to be with th-the -- he went with his friends, or what, I don't know.

Q: When you were -- when you were a little girl, like two or three, the oldest one, his name was Avrum(ph)?

A: Yes.

Q: About how old was he? Was he already a young man, or was he a teenager?

A: I--to me, he was already old, you know, because I was a little girl.

Q: Yeah.

A: He was the oldest, yeah, I don't know. You see, we are like this, two years apart.

Q: Everybody, two years?

A: Everybody two years apart.

Q: Oh yeah, so he would have been --

A: Like you can count from me, I'm the youngest --

Q: Yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: -- how old he was.

Q: So probably 14 - 16, something like that.

A: Maybe, yeah.

Q: Tell me a little bit about your father, his name again was what? Your father's name?

A: Hermann(ph) yo -- Jonas.

Q: Hermann(ph) Jonas.

A: Jonas.

Q: And what was -- what was his business, what did he do, how did he support seven children and a wife?

A: I don't know how to say in English, but he used to have tartak.

A2: Lumber mill.

A: A lu--a lumber mill.

Q: A lumber mill.

A: And later, we used to have a bank.

Q: And you -- so you had two businesses, a bank and a lumber mill.

A: Yes, yes.

Q: Okay. Had they been in the family a long time? Had these -- well, did your father establish these businesses, or did he inherit them from others? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer deg May 3, 2013

A: Yeah, we -- e -- my uncle, my father's brother was here, United States, and he make for us, the bank.

Q: Ah, okay.

A: He made the bank.

Q: So was in the -- you know, one generation, two generations.

A: The person -- family, yeah.

Q: Yeah.

A: And a lot of people from the town, and also from our town, or other towns in Poland, they used to come to borrowed money. Just to borrow money. Then how you can say no? Poor people, they borrowed money. Then was so bad, that they -- the bank closed. That's how we lost money.

Q: Before the war?

A: Before the war.

Q: Yeah.

A: They bern -- they came from our town, even, please, we were -- we don't have any, and they gave them money, gave them money, til there was nothing left.

Q: Yeah. And was your uncle also working in this bank, this business?

A: No, he was here --

Q: It was just your father? ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer deg May 3, 2013

A: Yeah, he was here a builder.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: Yeah.

Q: And what did you moth -- did your mother, was she in charge then, of raising the family, or did she work in any of these businesses?

A: No, she was home.

Q: She was home.

A: She was home.

Q: Tell me a little bit about your -- your home. What did it look like? Where was it, in the town?

A: This was -- I don't know how you will understand shedmisha(ph)? This was -- I know the address.

Q: Oh, tell us the address.

A: Pollna(ph) two. The name was Pollna(ph), and the number two. The house number two. Pollna(ph) number two.

Q: And what was the -- what wou -- what did the house look like? How many -- was it two stories, was it a single home, or did you have an apart --

A: Single home.

Q: Okay. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: Was a kitchen, then a dining room, then a living room. And two bedrooms, and upstairs was just one bedroom. It's like three bedrooms.

Q: For a family of nine.

A: Yeah.

Q: Did you have any grandmothers, or -- or uncles or aunts living with you?

A: Not with us, but in the neighborhood [indecipherable]

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Did your mother have any help taking care of all these children?

A: Let me tell you, she had the relative in an other town, they were very poor, they had children, they couldn't afford, you know, to -- to take care. Then, mine parents took one girl, and she was with us, and she was the oldest, you know? And then grow up, then my parents bring the wedding for her.

Q: Oh, that's nice.

A: Yeah. I remember even the wedding. And then they -- the parents came to the wedding, but they didn't pay nothing. They was very poor.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: And this was before the war? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: This was before the war. And was the war, she had already one child, a little girl.

Q: What was her name?

A: Imp -- Rose -- Rosa.

Q: Rose?

A: Rose.

Q: Was the name of the -- of the girl?

A: Yeah.

Q: And her baby?

A: I don't remember the name. See, the baby is alive. She is in Canada.

Q: Really?

A: She's married, she has children. And I don't remember the baby's name.

Q: Okay.

A: I don't remember.

Q: What was your mother's name?

A: Rose.

Q: Also Rose, okay, sorry. And what were their personalities like? Tell me a little bit about what kind of a person your father was, and what kind of a person your mother was. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: Mine -- mine parents was very good-natured people. They give a lot to charity, they used to help people. And some people, they was poor, and they didn't want to take, it was a shame to take. Then my father went, and put the money, I think he took my brother Paul, and gave him the money, and said put on the steps near the door, and run away. They shouldn't see who -- who is giving them.

Q: Oh, oh.

A: And they -- plenty charity from our house. It once happened, he received a letter from United States from his brother, Max Jonas, and in the letter was written, go out early in the morning. The first person you see, give him the money. He sent money in -- in the letter. Then my father went out, he did see his neighbor, our neighbor. He didn't gave him the money. He said, I will give him, maybe he will be -- how you s -- A2: Embara -- embarrassed.

A: -- embarrassed. He didn't know what to do. Then the second person was my -- my mother's brother. And he said, listen what, Uncle Max sent me the money, and he said, and you go out early in the morning, the first person you see, give him the money. And I did see, he said the name who, and mine uncle said, give him the money. The daughter is very sick. She has to go in another town for a operation.

Give him the money. And my father gave him the money. ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013

Q: Wow.

A: Charity was very important by us, to give charity.

Q: Were -- were your parents very religious?

A: Yeah, they were very religious, yeah. I remember we were sitting by the table, and a poor man was sitting. We invited him he should eat supper with us together.

He was eating supper, and also, you know, to the fish, or meat, you take the radish, the red radish? But these are very strong. And this gentleman didn't know, he took a big spoon like you eat soup, then into the mouth, and my father said, no, don't, don't, because -- and he didn't let finish my father, what my father want to say, then he said, I understand, because this is not mine. It will be mine, I'll be allowed to eat more. Then later my father explained, listen, this is very strong, such a big spoon.

Take it a little bit, you know, little bit. Yeah. But charity was very important. When my uncle came to Poland, he was sitting in [indecipherable] it was a line.

Q: Wow.

A: Was a line. It was one policeman standing and watching. I was a little girl, and I figured oh, when I open, you know, the -- the bigger -- in the back, we had to open, in the backyard, the horse with the wagon should be able to go out, or in, you know?

Q: That's right. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: When I open this more people will come in. This [indecipherable] was mine idea, I was a little girl, yeah.

Q: Did you open it up, the gate?

A: I did.

Q: And did more people come?

A: No, because the line was over there.

Q: Yeah. What were they like as parent [break] So we were talking about your uncle who came from the United States, and there was a line for charity --

A: Charity, yeah.

Q: -- outside, and I was asking you about your parents, as -- as par -- your parents as parents. What were they like at home with you and your brothers and your sisters?

A: Very nice, very --

Q: Were they strict?

A: No, but they was teaching us. Teaching us re -- to respect, to never -- I think ne -- we never should have fights, or what, no. How to eat. I remember we had a special man to teach us how to eat for the table, with a knife, and a fork, and this. How to behave, you know? Yeah.

Q: Which of them was -- which of your parents do you think most of the children were closer to? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 6 May 3, 2013

A: The mother.

Q: Yeah?

A: Yeah, because she was always with us.

Q: Okay.

A: You know, and my father was busy.

Q: What would you say would be like a typical memory you have of your mother, when you were a little girl?

A: Not special. She was very good to everybody, to all children.

Q: Did she -- did -- had she gone to school?

A: Tam sure.

Q: Did she read, write and -- and help you through --

A: Read --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- yeah, sure, yeah.

Q: Did she have any time for outside interests?

A: What mean outside --

Q: Outside interests, did she go to the theater? Or did she ha --

A: Oh yeah, I-- something I remember, my oldest brother want to learn how to dance, but mine parents didn't -- didn't want to, he should go places, because he will ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 6 May 3, 2013 maybe meet not nice people [indecipherable]. Then, a special man, a dancer, came to our house, to teach how to dance. Then from the neighbors, the girls came, and the boys, and he was teaching. I was a little girl, I was sitting in the side, and looking. And it was very hard for them how t -- with the feet, to go this way, that way. And all of a sudden, I start to dance. He was tall, I was a little girl, he was holding my hand. He was with -- dancing this dance.

Q: That sounds nice.

A: And, in the town was a lady, and she was very active. She opened like a, for the city, a play, to make a play, and I was the dancer.

Q: Oh, really?

A: Yeah. And I remember I was dancing. This wa -- was very hard for other one, I was dancing with, and people used to throw oranges and apples, which I was so scared, I ran away. I didn't know if this is for me, you know, yeah, yeah, that -- was very active, mine par -- belonged to organization to help people, only to help.

Q: Were they active in your synagogue?

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the charity went all over.

Q: Okay, but was it connected with your synagogue, or was that something just beyond even their wa -- their belonging there?

A: I don't remember which Sefer Torah did they made, I don't know. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A2: Am | interfere, or not?

Q: Well, go ahead.

A2: She says that her parents were involved to write in their holy book, you know, a Sefer Torah, they call it.

Q: Uh-huh. They were involved in writing --

A2: [indecipherable] that to write the -- the Torah [indecipherable]

Q: Yes. Okay. [phone ringing, technical interruption] Tell me a little bit about the town itself, about Sanok. How big was it? Was it -- were there many, many people, or was it a small town?

A: I don't know how small -- how big was --

Q: Did you know -- did you know most of your neighbors?

A: The neighbors, yes.

Q: Yeah. Did you -- did you live in the center of town, or -- or on the outskirts?

A: Not on the center, no.

Q: No.

A: No.

Q: Were there many Jews in the town? Many Jewish people?

A: Yeah. Yes.

Q: Yeah? Would you know about how many lived there? ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer a May 3, 2013

A: No.

Q: No.

A: No.

Q: Did you -- when did -- what was school like? When did you start school?

A: I--Iam not sure. Six or seven years old.

Q: Was it a Jewish school, or a public --

A: No, a public school.

Q: A public school.

A: Yes.

Q: Tell me a little bit about that school, about your memories of the grades, the teachers, the other kids.

A: Yeah, they -- I don't know, I was friendly with everybody. Very close, very friendly, and I remember something, I don't know, shall I mention it?

Q: Mention it.

A: And I had a ring in my coat pocket, was my sister's, and I put it in the pocket.

When I came home, I didn't have it. And my mother went to the school, and she said to the teacher, listen, listen, when the teacher, next day, she was a -- a speech to the children. And on the side was a picture from a mother -- how do you call them, mother -- Jesus? The mother. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

Q: Uh-huh. The Virgin Mary.

A: Virgin Mary. And she said, who took the ring, just bring it and put in the back from this picture. You have to bring it back, you put this picture, then everything will be okay. Next day we came, the teacher checked over there, the ring was there.

Q: Really?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: So it worked.

A: Yeah. Yeah, very nice, I had friends. I remember a lot. There were -- everything was ni-- was for children, was separate girls, separate boys.

Q: Okay.

A: Not together. Like [indecipherable] one, like a bench, you know, and a table, four in one thing. But me, and the other two, just three, because he was the tallest. I was -- when I was small, I was tall.

Q: Really?

A: Yeah. And the -- me, and other two girls were sitting just three. But the teachers very nice, the principal, every -- I don't know, everyone nice to me.

Q: Excuse me for a second. There's too much noise. I'm sorry, who is here? There's too much noise going on back and forth. We ha -- we can't ha -- you know, it has to Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

be quiet in the room where we're filming. I'm so sorry Mrs. Mania, but it -- 1-it catches up on the -- on the --

A: T understand.

[technical discussion]

Q: So Mrs. Mania, we were talking about school, and the teachers, and so in school, was this a place where you met non-Jewish kids for the first time?

A: Not for the first, because --

Q: Not for the first, uh-huh.

A: Yes, some -- yes, but we had neighbors not Jewish.

Q: I see.

A: Yeah, we was very close --

Q: I was trying to --

A: -- with the neighbors, yeah.

Q: Did you -- did you have any close friends who were not Jewish?

A: We had -- let me tell you, I spoke only Polish, I didn't know Jewish even to speak.

Q: Really?

A: Yeah. I didn't -- and I was with my mother by the window once, and a Jew came.

I said Mom, look. A Jew is coming. And then he -- another gentleman came, I said, http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer May 3, 2013 Mommy, look, a gentleman is coming. My mother, my God, you know, what's going on, you know? Because I was friends with the girls, yeah.

Q: I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of is how -- how much your childhood, your growing up was within the family, and within a Jewish community, and how much was it mixed? How much was it that everybody just knew each other and you had contact with people who weren't Jewish, who were Catholic, or who were maybe Ukrainian, or something?

A: Yeah, my father, my parents, very close with the neighbors, no Jewish. I remember even the names.

Q: What are their names, some of those --

A: Matchkovski(ph). Oh, I forgot the other name. Pierokt(ph), I think. Yeah, we was very close, very close, the parents also, very close.

Q: Of your brothers and sisters, was there someone that you were the closest to?

A: Paul.

Q: The one whose almost as --

A: We were playing together always, and then we, after the war was already, when he went someplace, he bought always something for me, not from the sisters.

Q: Ah.

A: Only for me he used to buy. We was very, very close. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: Me and Paul.

Q: So did -- did conversations at home -- you know, if you were born in 1924, by the mid-1930s, you're 10 - 11 years old, and there are all kinds of historical things happening, and political things happening. Do you remember any conversations about the Polish government, about Hitler coming to power in Germany?

A: About Hitler yeah, we was very afraid. This was when start already the -- I remember talking that in Germany, this was in Germany, back in the morning, the children are going to school.

Q: Yes.

A: What Hitler did, from the school -- the parents didn't know. They took them out from school, brought to Poland, and killed them in Poland.

Q: Was this in the war time, or before?

A: This is before started in Poland, but he was already close at Poland. This was the -- I remember that they killed so many children, because they Jewish. They took from school the Jewish children. And the parents didn't know, they send them to school like always. And brought them to Poland, and they killed them in Poland.

This I remember.

Q: Yeah. There was discussion of that kind? ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013

A: Oh yes, yes, yes. It was terrible.

Q: And -- and what about at home? Did your -- did your father or your mother, when you had dinner, did -- was politics, or the events of the day, ever part of the talk?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: No. If even my moth -- father came from work, they want to talk about something, they went to the other room.

Q: I see.

A: And to be honest with you, then my mother used to say always to the girls, when you will get married, and your husband will come home from work, don't ask him how was it, how this. Don't ask him nothing. Just give him supper, let him eat, but later, when he will tell you his problem now, just make from the [indecipherable] oh, you will see, tomorrow will be better, that's -- he should not be nervous. That's what my mother was teaching us, the girl, how -- what kind wife you should be.

Q: Was your father a nervous person, do you think?

A: No.

Q: No. But probably she was doing what she was teaching you, as well.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: My father wasn't nervous.

Q: So, let's come to that point where things start to change, and you know, did you -- when the war started, do you remember that day? Do you remember where you were?

A: When the war star -- home. We was home. But the Germans came already, and every day was a different war.

Q: So you saw Germans in Sanok?

A: In Sanok.

Q: Okay.

A: A different war was every day. And one day -- this was like this before the war.

Q: Okay.

A: Before the war, and a pa -- a man, a -- a Polish, not Jewish, came to my father, he said, I want to be a partner in your business.

Q: Okay.

A: And my father says, listen, I am not by myself, I have other partners. I have to ask the partners it's okay with them. Then my father ask, and they say no, we are already partners so long. Then no -- then my father say, I am sorry. I cannot take in.

He said to my father, wait. When Hitler will come, I will teach you a lesson. That's what he said to my father. And then Hitler came, and the Germans came already ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013 before. And my mother said, I'm afraid what he said, he will do it. Then he -- my father and the boys went away from the city, in a village, to be away from the -- this gentleman. My brother Joseph said, Mommy, if you are not coming with us and the sisters, then I will stay also with you. I want you to come with us. My mother said no, not now. Then you promise me you will come? My mother says, yes. Then my father and the brothers left. And the Germans [indecipherable] one from the family, rich family, the man left already. Has to come here, in this and this place, tomorrow, early in the morning. And my sister went. And over there, they make recht, links, recht, links, right, left, right when the people came in there.

Q: They're making selections.

A: Selections. And my cousin was on this side, my sister was on this side. And they say, this side can stay, and this side you have to leave til tomorrow, eight o'clock, you shouldn't be here any more. If you will be here, you will be killed. And my sister was standing, then he had bi-- we have to leave, and mine cousins was on the other side, then they can stay. And my sister run to them, we should be able to stay.

Then they hit her so much. They was hitting her terrible why she went on the other side. She came home, then my mother ask her what happen, she couldn't talk. She lost her voice, she couldn't talk.

Q: Was she crying? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

A: She was crying, but she couldn't talk. Then the cousin came, and she told what we have to go. And my mother said, where shall we go?

Q: When you said, was it-- when your sister was on the side that has to go, did it mean just her, or her whole family?

A: The whole family.

Q: I see.

A: They said the whole family.

Q: And what was your si-- which sister was this that went, that came back crying?

What was her name?

A: Esther.

Q: Esther. So it was Esther, mm-hm.

A: Yeah. then my mother said no, we will stay. Where shall I go? Leave the house, every -- I remember we had the dog also, where will she go? But, a lady, a neighbor came, and she -- she was from Germany, and she moved to Poland. And she said, if they say they will kill, they will kill. Then we left also in the village the same way th -- mine father with the brothers went over there.

Q: So you were -- you re -- you ran away from your home?

A: We ran away from home. But we wasn't too long over there, we came back. My mother with the girls, we came back. We have to die, we'll die home in our bed. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013 But this was one day, in -- early in the morning, somebody's knocking in the door.

Was mine aunt. And she said to my mother, come on, we have to leave. Someone -- German soldiers are coming here, come on. We have to leave. My mother said, how we leave? What -- where to go? We don't have fa -- a horse or a car. They took away everything from us. And then, in the backyard was a man with a horse, and a wagon, a strange man. And my moth-mother goes out, who are you? He said, let me stay here. I was in the army, but I ran away. I have a wife and children at home.

Q: Polish army?

A: Polish army. And my mother said, but see, we have to run away, becau -- he said, you know what? I will take you. Wherever you want to go, I take you. Make believe Iam your husband. Then we went. We went to the village.

Q: What was the village name?

A: Tyrawa. Tyrawa Woloska.

Q: Tyrawa Woloska, mm-hm.

A: And we went there, but mine -- wasn't enough room. There were me, and a cousin, also mine age, was sitting on his wagon over there, and my mother, with my sister Esther, sister Hilda, and mine aunt with her children, they was walking to the village. And came all of a sudden the Polish soldiers, on the same way when we was staying, Polish -- Polish soldiers. And on the top, the planes, German. German ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013 plane, they start to bomb. And one soldier Polish came, took me down from there, carried back, and mine cousin. And for a little bit like trees, you know, they put us over there. Be over there, sit here. We were sitting over there, and then they went away, the planes [indecipherable] from the soldiers was getting everybody out. He was counting how many soldier was killed, and how many horses killed, and this is what's terrible. But I went out, and the gentleman was waiting for us. He was sitting under the wagon, you know. And he -- he ran to the village. And when we came over there, people was running, did you see two children, did you see -- because mine pa -- my mother, with the sisters, went -- was already in the village, and they was walking. And we didn't, you know? Then, also the same thing, I tell my father that a soldier helped us. And my father said, which one is a soldier? We went out, and we found him, and we brang him to my father, and my father thank him, and my father want to give him something for it. He said, I am not taking nothing. But they took me to the army, and I left my children home. That's why I did see your children, I want to help them. He helped us.

Q: Do you remember his name?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: I don't remember, no. ontactrefiranneGaushariarg a hither atrmedortabeattfiexaliaton Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

Q: And he left then?

A: He left for the army, sure.

Q: Yeah.

A: He left.

Q: What had happened to your father's business by that point?

A: Til now I don't know. They took away. The Germans, or -- they took away. Who took away?

Q: So when he -- so when he left your home in Sanok, and ran to the village -- what was the name again, of the village, terra -- terras --

A: Tyrawa Woloska.

Q: Ter -- Tyrawa Woloska?

A: Yeah.

Q: Mm-hm. He had a business. He ran away, but he still had a business.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. And did all of this happ -- when did all of this happen? Right as the war started? Within a month or two, or had time gone by? Do you know, do you remember?

A: I don't remember. How can I remember how long was?

Q: Okay. Did you ever have to wear a star? The yellow star? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

A: No.

Q: No?

A: No. When we left the house, we was in Tyrawa Woloska over there, was terrible.

Q: What was it like there? Yeah, tell --

A: It was terrible, yeah.

Q: What was going on?

A: The neighbors -- was one neighbor, it was such a good person, such a good pemper -- Polish -- Polack. Such a -- once that he send his son to us, and he ask, maybe you" ll have the peels from the potatoes, because we can use it for the cow.

And we said no, we don't have potatoes. You know what they did?

Q: What?

A: They brought us potatoes. They brought us potatoes, but give us the peels. And ha -- they came for the peels, and they very nice pe -- not Jewish -- very nice people helped us. And then was one -- oy, was terrible. Here, this was killed, and this was killed, and this was killed.

Q: Who?

A: The neighbors, the Jewish people. The Germans killed. My father wasn't killed because he ran away. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

Q: How did you find out about it?

A: My brother was killed. My oldest brother was killed, then throw him in the fire, alive. But we didn't know. We ask about him, where is he, where is he? The people, they don't know. You know how we found out?

Q: How?

A: When we was already United States, and I was working, and the boss said to me like this, look, in the "Times" about your brother. Somebody alive here told them what happened to my brother, that's they killed him, they throw him in the fire, and my fa -- brother was -- was killed. He was such a good person, good person. He was working, the money what he made, you know what he did? By us, when a girl got married, they have to give dowry. But they didn't have. He gave away his money to the poor people, to have dowry for the girls. And this what happened to him, killed him. Just because he was Jewish.

Q: Was this in the village that you were -- had escaped to?

A: No, this was from the town.

Q: So, in Sanok?

A: From our town, it's in Sanok.

Q: So, he went back to the town? You see, I'm -- I'm trying to find out what happened at what time. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He went back to the -- to the town, and they killed him.

Q: It was German soldiers?

A: Lam not sure. I think so. I think so.

Q: When you say that somebody told it, and it was in the "Times," do you mean the "New York Times?"

A: "New York Times." In the paper, was it.

Q: And your boss tells you that somebody talks about your brother?

A: Yeah.

Q: Did you ever contact, or have contact --

A: No.

Q: -- to the people who spoke about that --

A: No, never --

Q: -- that it ends up in a newspaper?

A: --no, I don't know. I don't know from this time where -- what we had, but Hitler, yet was afraid to tell the people. He didn't trust nobody. We don't know who the person is.

Q: Your fam -- I -- your family is in this village at that point, and you say terrible things start to happen in the village.

A: Yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013

Q: What are some of those terrible things that you're talking about?

A: When you woke up in the morning, oh, this is not here any more. This was killed, and this was killed, and this was killed. Killed, killed, killed, killed, that's all.

Killing.

Q: So you would see bodies in the streets?

A: Was plenty bodies in the streets.

Q: In this small village?

A: In this small village.

Q: And was it German soldiers who were doing it? Was it local Polish people who were doing it, was Ukrainians?

A: No, mostly ger -- Germans, Germans, yeah.

Q: How long did you stay in that village?

A: Ah, long. Then, was a fight between the Germans, and Russian.

Q: Okay.

A: Was a fight, and where je -- the village, what we was there, the Russian took over, and we was very happy about it. When the Russian came, the Germans ran away, because they had a fight. And it was one day, we was sleeping already, somebody knocks on the door. We were open that, a Russian soldiers. Come on, out. And they take us to the -- was standing, they was taking us to the Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

[indecipherable] I don't know what was it, the train? O-Or was a boat, a boat now, a lot of people, was a -- that was a train, I think, took us over there. And we didn't know where they taking us. They took us to Russia.

Q: The whole family?

A: The whole family. Took us to [indecipherable] civilian.

Q: From this village, Tyrawa --

A: To Siberia.

Q: To Siberia?

A: Yeah. I remember where was it. Was Novosibirskoye(ph) Oblast, Suzliski(ph) Riyonne(ph), Utrastik(ph) Smyrna(ph). This was where we were.

Q: And you were how old?

A: I was, I think, 15. And I was there, and the boys, the girl had to go to work, in the woods.

Q: Before we talk about that, can you tell me what was the train ride like, how long it took?

A: The train was -- was a long time. I-I don't remember how long it was, but it was a long time.

Q: Were you all together in one wagon, or were you in separate wagons?

A: No, we was together with other people. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: Was a big thes --

Q: Was there a place to lie down, or sit down, or not?

A: It was on the side, like [indecipherable] the benches, was [indecipherable] A2: From lumber made.

A: From lumber.

Q: A lumber.

A2: Cattle car.

Q: It was a cattle car.

A: Cattle car, yeah.

A2: And the bathroom was a -- a -- a opening in the floor they made, this was the bathroom for men in the cattle car [indecipherable]

Q: Okay. I'm going to repeat that, so there was -- it was lumber slats, sort of on the side, like th -- and where you could lie down. It was like a cattle car --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- and there was a hole in the floor --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- that was the toilet for everybody, of that.

A: Yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

Q: Okay. And your whole family was there?

A: Yeah, the family was there.

Q: So your mother, your father, and all of your brothers and sisters.

A: Yeah. My older brother wasn't there.

Q: How was it that he wasn't there?

A: He wasn't there.

Q: Do you know why?

A: Maybe we pre -- pre -- all of a sudden, we didn't see him. You know, when you will walk out.

Q: Yeah.

A: Just walk out, and somebody catch you, and take me to nowhere. That's what it is, that's what was. They were to -- catching the Jews like you catch dogs, in the street.

Q: That was the Russians. You're saying the Russians?

A: No, before, when the Germans. Then we didn't know where he is already. That's it.

Q: I see. So he was one of those who was caught -- find out.

A: And then, after the war, we find out what happened.

Q: Okay. So everybody except your brother. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Is on that train. Your oldest brother is not.

A: Oldest brother wasn't there.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. And -- and you traveled in these cattle cars.

A: Yeah.

Q: And what was the attitude of the Russian soldiers?

A: What you mean what was --

Q: How did they treat you?

A: When we was in Russia already?

Q: As they were taking you from the house to the -- to the train, and on the train, and so on.

A: They didn't [indecipherable] all right, just we should go in, and that's it. And, you know, and -- to the train, that's all. They wasn't bad to us. They didn't killed us.

Q: Did they yell at you, did they -- did they -- did they have any way of -- I mean, how did you find out -- I mean, how -- I guess what I'm trying to find out is, here you think they're going to be liberators, you know, they're not as bad as the Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

Germans, and yet one morning, with no warning, with no -- with no notice, everybody is herded onto a train, and nobody knows where they're going.

A: Yeah, that was middle the night.

Q: It was the middle of the night.

A: Middle of the night, knocking on the door. And -- and took us out from this -- this room somebody gave us. I think this was in the school, gave us a room where to stay.

Q: Sorry. [phone ringing, technical interruption] [break]

A2: -- then I-- and then I [indecipherable] but they make the registration like [indecipherable] where they want to stay here, we come [indecipherable] here, or go back home. So the father registered he want to go back to Sarnok.

Q: To Poland?

A2: To Poland, yeah. So this way -- an-and this is what [indecipherable] to then disappear [indecipherable] because they didn't want [indecipherable]

Q: Okay, so here's the question. This village that they were in --

A2: Right.

Q: Was that in Poland, or was that in Russia?

A2: This was in Poland. But you see, in Poland, they took like a half of Poland --

Q: Right. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

A2: --and the Russians withdrew -- the German withdrew, and the Russians came, in the other half --

Q: I see one place that's not accurate is they didn't have a fight at that point, there was an agreement.

A2: It was agreement.

Q: It was agreement, it was agreement.

A2: But no fight, no.

Q: It wa -- yeah.

A2: My point was --

Q: After.

A2: -- it was late in 1941 --

Q: Forty-one.

A2:--when Germany invaded Russia.

Q: Yeah.

A2: But this was 39 --

Q: Yeah, was different.

A2: -- and [indecipherable] no.

Q: Yeah. So -- okay, so the Russians come into this part in Poland, and they ask everybody -- Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *" May 3, 2013

A2: Yeah, first the Germans move in --

Q: Come.

A2: -- then -- and the Russians came in. So once the Russians came ov -- became over and in there, okay, they said, you know --

Q: Right.

A2: -- fine. They didn't persecute nobody, they treated everybody humanely. But then came a registration. So they called like the head of the family, and there was there, when they registered, you want to be -- become -- take a passport, become a citizen, or you want to go home, back? So their father registered them they want to go home. I want to die on my bed, he said, you know. So they rejected to become there. So then at night they came, after a while, and they loaded up on freight trains, you know, on cattle cars, and they deported them to Siberia, this is the story.

Q: I see. Okay.

A2: They refuse to --

Q: Then, you know, Mrs. Mania, if you can repeat that, when we" ll start taping again. Are we okay to start taping? [break]

Q: So, I wanted to try and get a sense of, you know, an understanding of how it is that you got to be deported, because it's extremely confusing. Do you have any knowledge of why this happened to your family? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: Yeah. You know, when the Russian came in, they call in the head from the family, to the office, and they ask questions my father. All he want to take a--a Russian passport, or he wants to go back home? My father registered to go home, back to Poland. And when my father came home, my mother said, what happened.

over there? My father told him, I registered to go back home. I want to die on my bed.

Q: Yeah.

A: And my mother said, whatever you did, should be good, but can we know? Then after I don't know how long, a week, or a few days, or when. Middle of the night, everybody sleeping, there was knocking on the door, and I -- my father opened the door. He said everybody out, out. And they took us to this train. And then my fa -- mother -- we were standing there, and then my mother -- my mother ask the soldier, where are you taking us? He said, you registered to go home, you go home to the Germans. Meantime wasn't so. They took us to Russia, on Siberia over there.

Q: Do you remember what it is you saw once you arrived in Novosibirsk? What was the first image that you saw?

A: What I did see over there, barracks. And around us, woods. That's all. Was a lot of snakes, a lot of wolves. Was very dangerous to go out, even. And they send the Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

people to work, to the woods. Was very cold, severely, and very cold, winter was very cold. Snow, cold.

Q: What did you have to do? What was your job?

A: They didn't gave me a job. They didn't gave me what -- nothing to do, and who was working had the slice of bread a day. I wasn't working, they didn't give me nothing. And I was crying, I was hungry. When I si-- went to the main man there, a soldier, please give me piece of bread, I'm hungry. He said, I am not allowed to give you. I said why? Because you are not working. I said, then give me something to work. And he said, I am not allowed, because you're too young. This age is not ever allowed to work. Then, what I mentioned before, I went in the woods, and I was eating over there, blueberries. Was like strawberries, but very small. Whatever.

In the woods you have plenty what to eat. Even onions you have in the woods. And I was eating this, and I remember I did see beautiful flowers. I picked the flowers for my mother, and I go out from the woods with -- holding the flowers, and the soldier was tre -- was watching us, I said -- he asked me, for whom you pick the flowers? I figure mine God, maybe I am not allowed to do it. I said to him, for you.

And he said all right, give it to my office. And I put it in the office, and to tell the truth, I didn't -- he gave me from this time, every day a slice of bread. But also, he gave me a job. He gave me a job, he gave me a very big knife, very strong, to make ontectnetonancedjusetneey for tarher biormatoerabouttfisestecion Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013 from wood, like long pieces. When they build the house, they put this on the walls.

And that [indecipherable] oh look, they cut my finger, see? See, they're different from this, this.

Q: Min-hm. I will take a look later, yes.

A: Yeah, cut my finger. They send me to the doctor, what kind doctor? No medicine, nothing, he put the bandage. And come, I had to walk three kil-kilometers with the woods, to get back there. And I came there, instead he should give me medicine, he took out the [indecipherable] again [indecipherable], you know, every time he tar -- took out you know, again the -- I don't know.

Q: What is it that he took out, splinters of the wood?

A: Not splinters, my -- my meat, open again, open this again. When I came, open again. I don't know this -- they didn't have medicine. Then I stopped to go to him, but he gave me every day a slice of bread, from this time.

Q: That's the soldier.

A: This what was watching us, yeah.

Q: Yeah, the guard.

A: The guard. Was terrible, was really ter -- was terrible. And my brother make for the nose to cover, because a lot people lost their fingers --

Q: Yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 4 May 3, 2013

A: -- because was cold, freezing cold. They lost their noses, then he one -- was one day they went to work, and I see my brother didn't put on on the nose nothing. I said Mommy, look, I am going to give him. My mother, how you give him? No, you -- you will freeze. Then my mother gave me socks, her socks, and my sister's summer coat, was so long on me, summer coat. No gloves. And I took this, I was walking. I didn't know where in the woods. I knew, but when they left, I used to look to the window, I knew this is the spot when they go in in the woods. Then I went the same place, and I was walking, and walking, and walking. And all of a sudden I see a lot of people, and this was the people working. And I found my brother. This is the brother what you will meet Sunday.

Q: Okay.

A: Then I gave him this, and he said, don't walk home, run. And this was a bigger mistake, I was listening to him. I was running and I was too tired already, I couldn't walk even. The -- the socks fell down and was under the knees. I was so cold, I didn't have gloves. I was walking, and I couldn't walk. I couldn't use my feet, I couldn't walk. And I was praying to God. I said, if I-- you want me to die, please let me die when I come near my mother, because here the wolf will eat me up, with the -- this -- when you was walking, you hear howl, howl, so many animals over there.

And I was walking and I came home. I came home, my mother did see my feet was http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013 so white, like the tissue. White. And my mother start to cry. He was calling help, and few ladies came in. He start to massage my feet. Didn't hurt, but didn't -- and then they took straw, and they took straw, start massage my feet with straw. Didn't hurt, and it helped me. My mother was crying so much. I said Mommy, why you crying? Doesn't hurt me. And they went out, and on the premises was working a pharmacist, a pharmacist. What to do? He said cold water, take snow and let it put in in the snow, the feet. Didn't help. Then they went out again to him, and then he said, take warm water, lukewarm water, just one foot put in, not both. Because when one foot, and the water is too warm, the f-- the foot will fall out. Then -- they she will have one foot. Then one. Then they do it, so-- and when they put in in the lukewarm water, my foot start to burn. Pain terrible, and I start to cry. And my mother said, oh God, thank you. I said, Mommy, you happy because hurts me? I didn't understood this. Then they put the other foot also in this water, that my feet was swollen terrible. Each toe, you know, each one was like a baked potato, big and swollen. No medicine, I couldn't walk. But somebody brought some medicine, was [indecipherable]. Was terrible. Nothing to eat, nothing to [indecipherable]

Q: Your father and your other brothers and sisters, were they working together in that place in the woods?

A: In the woods, yeah. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

Q: All together in the same place?

A: Not all together.

Q: No?

A: No, no, they gave them separate, I -- with other people.

Q: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: Well, tell us a little bit about your brother Joseph. What was -- what was he like?

He had not wanted to leave your mother in Sanok.

A: He was such a good-natured person. I have to tell you something.

Q: Okay.

A: We didn't have what to eat, then my mother, I remember gave me, this was thread, what you needed to kind of got -- such a -- how you call, with this? Go, maybe you will sell it for a piece of bread. When I was walking, I was walking four kilometers to this village, to sell this.

Q: To sell thread.

A: Th-This piece of thread for something. Was one [indecipherable] no, we don't need it. But one lady was very nice, she said, come in. And she gave me potatoes, and she gave me whatever she had. And I walked home with this. But, she asked me, maybe you have white socks. I said okay. Then I went home. When I came Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

home and said to my mother about white socks, and my sister was wearing the white socks. My mother washed it, we -- and then she gave me and I brought on another day, walked back to give her the socks. Even I went there, she wasn't home.

I was waiting to th -- she would come home from work, sitting on her stump outside.

Then she came, and I gave her the sock. Even she gave me -- I gave her the sock, she gave me so many things. She said, go in mine garden, take potatoes. I went the garden, I didn't see potatoes. I didn't know that potatoes are in the ground, that I have to -- I didn't know. But still, she gave me what she has in the house. She gave me even milk. And my mother gave me, with me, such a thing to, if she gives me milk, to carry the milk. She gave me what she could. And then I went home. Was white outside, but when you go in in the woods, it's dark, because the trees that is, was very dark. And I was walking home and walking, and you hear that, over there, the animals, so, howl, th -- and then when I was walking, see a drunk man is walking. I was this way, and the drunk man like walked to me. I said God, what shall I do, shall I go in the woods? Or shall I walk? I was afraid, what shall I do?

And I figure out this way. I go in the woods, the animals will kill me. I will walk here, maybe we'll see. You know the drunk man who was? My brother Joseph. He came from work, and my mother told that oh -- came from work the same time, told him that I left early in the morning, and I am not home yet. Then he went to look for Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

me, but he was so tired, that we -- he was falling from -- he couldn't walk. He looked like he drunk, he was walking so, you know, terrible. And he took from me whatever he could help me to carry. He was such a good-natured person. Very good-natured. That's what he was.

Q: You know, when you told me earlier you'd come from a family in Sanok that did charity to other people --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- for other people. Your father owned a lumber mill business.

A: Yeah.

Q: And a bank. It must have been very difficult to go from having a comfortable life, to not having enough socks, you know.

A: Sure. Sure.

Q: How did --

A: Because we left that home every day. What we took with us? Nothing.

Q: And so you never saw --

A: Even the dog --

Q: Right.

A: -- was on a leash, and we don't know what happened to the dog. http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer >> May 3, 2013

Q: So when you left the house, all you left with was the clothes on your back?

A: Yeah, that's it, that's all. Nothing.

Q: And when you get to --

A: That's why my mother already said to go back. To back home, everything's over --we left everything, we didn't have nothing.

Q: What were your sisters doing when you were in Novosibirsk?

A: They was working in the -- in the woods, too.

Q: Also?

A: Also, yeah.

Q: Also.

A: Yeah.

Q: How long did this last?

A: We was, I think four years in Russia, I think so. And two -- I don't remember how long we was in the woods.

Q: Mm-hm.

A: And then they told us free, we can go which town we want, we are free.

Q: And this was during the war, or was this after the war?

A: This was after the war, I think already.

Q: Yeah? http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *deg May 3, 2013

A: I think so.

Q: And so, what did you do then afterwards, after they said you could be free?

A: Then we left over there, where we was, in the woods. We went to a city, Novosibirsk. When we went to Novosibirsk, because over there it's a big town, maybe we can found a job, because a big town. Then, wherever we went, no jobs for us. Where shall we go? Then we went to buy a ticket, and we said to the cashier, we don't know where to go. So many people, and so much money. He said, you can go only til this and this town, that's all. This town was a name, Karmine(ph).

Q: Karmine(ph).

A: Karmine(ph). Then, if went there --

Q: And where was it? What part of r-- what part of the Soviet Union? Was it in Ukraine, was it in Russia?

A: In Russia.

Q: In Russia, mm-hm.

A: In Russia. And we went there. And what we was doing over there? I wasn't working. You see, the memory is very poor. When you getting older, it's very poor, the memory. I don't remember even what I was doing.

Q: What was your -- what were your parents doing, your father and your mother?

A: We was in Karmine(ph), what my father was doing? I don't remember. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *!

May 3, 2013

Q: Do you have any memories of Karmine?

A: [indecipherable] Karmine(ph). I don't remember what my father was doing. I don't remember.

Q: Do you have any memory of what the place looked like?

A: You know, when you don't know the language, your -- you are not going out so much. You're in a different country.

Q: You know, you -- you almost address the next question I was going to ask, which is when did you learn Russian?

A: Over there, the Russian [indecipherable] school.

Q: In Russia? So, but in Karmine(ph), you still didn't speak Russian?

A: I start a little bit, because neighbors all Russian, everybody Russian. And I learn like this, you know.

Q: When you were there, were you -- you know, and they let you go free, were you allowed to go to school?

A: Maybe yes, but I didn't go.

Q: You didn't go, okay.

A: I didn't go.

Q: Yeah. What happened after Karmine(ph), to your family? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer ~ May 3, 2013

A: Then we was allowed to go back home. And we came back, start again that same thing. We was -- came home --

Q: And what was home at that point?

A: When we was in the train, and this was under Polish -- this was -- I was by the window, looking out, and boys with such a thing what you knocking stones, you know, to our -- just to our -- where we -- to the door, knocking. Give us the rabbi.

We will not touch you, but the rabbi, give it to us, to rabbi. We didn't answer, we didn't open the door. Was terrible. And then when was quiet, we look out. What was it? Next door to us, this was Polish girl with the -- the -- came also from Russia, Polish girls, and by us was a man with the [indecipherable]. Then put a sign over our door outside, it's a rabbi here. That's why they came, give us the rabbi. We will not kill you, but the rabbi, give it to us. They don't like us. That's all. Just to kill us.

Q: This was going back from Russia to Poland?

A: Yes. After the war already. After the war already, yeah.

Q: And that was at the Polish-Soviet border? Is this what you're saying, it this where this took place, or --

A: I don't know --

Q: You don't know.

A: I don't know. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: When we was there, they gave us bread to stay. I am telling you, and we were sleeping on the floor. And the men was -- had like -- to protect yourself, you know, on the floor. Because they used to knock, open the door, open the door.

Q: What did the men have on the floor, I don't understand.

A: No, they was holding, they was sleeping [indecipherable]

Q: Yeah.

A: We were all sleeping, no beds.

Q: Yes.

A: And they -- I am -- like the pipes, from this.

Q: So they have some -- yeah.

A: To prepare, you had to prepare. And they told us it was a Jewish organization.

Don't open the door for nobody. And I remember I did hear, a people pass by outside, and they were -- said, in Polish, the Jews are upstairs, the Jews are upstairs.

We came back, wasn't our town, was a different town.

Q: Do you know the name of the town? Do you remember?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: I don't remember the town. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: And then we left this town, and we went back after the war, we was back in Germany.

Q: No, excuse me. Did you ever go back to Sanok?

A: No.

Q: No.

A: Never.

Q: No.

A: Never.

Q: And when you say back to Germany, I understand you never had been to Germany before then?

A: No.

Q: Okay. So, you left from this town in Poland, and you went to Germany. Do you remember where in Germany?

A: It's Salzburg, I think.

Q: Okay, Salzburg is in Austria, okay.

A: Austria.

Q: Uh-huh. Has mountains all around it, and lakes. It's very pretty area.

A: Yes, yes. It was there, not only us, but the people what arrive. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013

Q: Okay.

A: And we was there. We was lager Ebensee.

Q: Ebensee.

A: Yeah. We couldn't stay there, was terrible. Was terrible. All the -- on the grounds were the dead people, dead people. I remember it was so quiet. Like now you go, and go a cemetery, is quiet. Over there was like this.

Q: There were still corpses? There were corpses, there were dead people?

A: It was covered. But first, in the special houses, ble -- blood all over the walls, red with -- and clothes, clothes that chi -- from children, from all the people what they killed them. Was terrible over there to see. I remember I was walking out, and I was sitting under the tree. Was so quiet. Even I was walking, I feel somebody like behind me walking. I turn around nobody's there. And I feel somebody, like somebody's walking. And we couldn't stay there.

Q: Tell me, when did you -- when did you find out -- when you were in Russia --

A: Yeah.

Q: -- you didn't know what had happened to all the Jews in Sanok, and in Poland.

A: No, no.

Q: When did you find out?

A: We tate -- let me tell you something. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer 8 May 3, 2013

Q: Yeah.

A: When mine uncle was there with the wife and the children, he had eight children, he was there, and they send us a letters, all kind. And they told us that the rabbi from our town went to leave the town, with the wife and the children, they was walking away. Meantime, the wife said she doesn't feel good. When he said to the wife, Mommy doesn't feel good? Then we have to go back. They went back to the house. The German came, they took them out, all outside. The parents will stay and look how they kill the children. And they killed the children, then they killed the parents. They all was killed, because they Jews.

Q: And your uncle and his -- wrote that to you, your family?

A: The cousin of --

Q: The cousin's --

A: -- the uncle's daughter.

Q: And they had stayed back there?

A: They stayed and they all -- they killed them all.

Q: But they were able to write you a letter about these things, before that happened.

A: In Polish, yeah.

Q: In Polish.

A: In Polish. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

Q: So you knew that when you were still in Russia?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: When you came back to Poland, did you find out more? Or, when did you learn that it wasn't just --

A: We didn't go back to Poland.

Q: You told me you had, from Russia you went to Poland.

A: Not to our city.

Q: I know.

A: No.

Q: I guess my question is, when did you find out that not only the rabbi and his family, but almost all Jews had been killed? When -- when did you find that out?

A: Is this already after the war. After the war.

Q: In Europe, or in the mer -- in America?

A: You see, when we came back, we ask people, did you see this, did you see -- no, no. Then they didn't know, no. Then we was in Austria, we didn't go back home --

Q: Yeah.

A: -- but in Austria, in lager Halline(ph).

Q: Hallai(ph)?

A: Halline(ph). Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

Q: Halline(ph)

A: [indecipherable] Ebensee, but we couldn't stay there. Then, over there, it was American army.

Q: Okay.

A: Then this -- the head from the army gave us their place, was a lager, Halline(ph).

Gave barracks, everything for us, we should stay there, after the war, four years after the war, we was there.

Q: In that lager?

A: We wasn't able to go back to Poland. Who went back, people went home, they ki -- was killed. The Polacks killed them. Then there was a girl, I think I told you, she was en -- just engaged, and they killed her, because she went back. Mine cousin was in the street, then one came to her, with [indecipherable] and killed her. Oh boy, such a beautiful girl, killed.

Q: Why?

A: Because she was Jewish. That's all.

Q: But you had -- you had had any sense that something li -- before the war, would you have ever believed that such things could happen?

A: No. No. We had friends Polacks. We had friends.

Q: What do you think turned them into enemies? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer ~ May 3, 2013

A: I don't know.

Q: After that lager that you were in in Halline(ph) for four years, what happened to you and your family after that?

A: From there we came to United States, because the -- I think was President Truman. He [indecipherable] the peace can come to United States. Then we came from --

Q: Were you sponsored by somebody? That is, did you have relatives who helped you --

A: Relatives, I told you, the uncle what help, with the bank, or thing.

Q: Yeah.

A: He passed away.

Q: I see.

A: He passed away, he was in the 40s. Had a heart attack, he passed away. But he had a brother he -- two brothers here, then they sponsored us. Yeah, we came here.

Q: I see.

A: Yeah.

Q: I see. And where did -- where did you meet your husband?

A: We knew each other from the before the war.

Q: And you met here? http://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer degdeg May 3, 2013

A: And we was little children, and he was a friend of my brother.

Q: Which brother?

A: Paul.

Q: Uh-huh.

A: Yeah. And then was a war. And when we came here to United States, then he was working in Columbus, Ohio, and we was here, I was working here, and he had vacation, he came for two weeks to New York, and he ask who is alive from our town, they told him the Jonas's, that we are alive. Then he came to visit us, and he never went back.

Q: Were there more people from your town that live around here that were -- that survived and came to America from Sanok?

A: From Sanok, not too much. I don't know.

Q: Okay.

A: I don't know.

Q: Have you spoken with your children about these things?

A: Not special.

Q: No? Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer *!

May 3, 2013

A: It's very hard for me to talk about this. It's very hard for me. What kind life I had? What life, what life I had? I tell you the honest true, even now we are United States, I am afraid when my husband goes out with a yarmulke on.

Q: Yeah.

A: I told him, I am telling you the true. Because what I went through, you know, then I am really afraid when he goes out with the yarmulke.

Q: So that -- that fear never went away?

A: Never. It will -- never will. Never.

Q: What would you want -- what would you want your children and their children to understand about what happened to you, to your family?

A: I-- but they do understand. Now, they understand what we went through.

Q: Your great-grandchildren, then?

A: Yeah.

Q: Do you want them to know about these things?

A: I don't know. I don't know. Whatever will be, will be. Even now, I am afraid. A lot of people don't like Jews.

Q: Is it a question you've asked yourself over the years, as to why?

A: I didn't ask questions myself.

Q: I see. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer " May 3, 2013

A: Ido ask question God, why? Why? Why this happen? We all children, we have the same God, and why is this? And it's a terrible thing, when your -- your child is going out, he never comes back, because he is a Jew.

Q: Yeah. When you were in Russia, did you -- when you were in Russia, and you were still imprisoned, did you feel that kind of fear?

A: No. Not out in Russia, I didn't.

Q: Okay.

A: No. That wa -- that was different. They didn't kill you because you Jewish, or what. No.

Q: Were you afraid at all there, or was it mostly you were cold and hungry?

A: Cold and hungry. That's what was it, cold and hungry.

Q: Yeah.

A: Yeah.

Q: Yeah. Is there anything else, Mrs. Mania, you'd like to add to what we've talked about today?

A: That's all.

Q: Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

A: Okay. Interview with Mania Jonas Mayer * May 3, 2013

Q: And this concludes our interview, the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview, with Mrs. Mania Jonas Mayer, on May 34, 2013. Thank you.

A: Terrible. It's better to die, and that's it.

Q: Thank you for doing it. Thank you for doing it.

Conclusion of Interview