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https://collections.ushmm.org Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection ROSE LIBERMAN February 4, 2014

Gail Schwartz: This is the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Liberman conducted by Gail Schwartz on February 4, 2014. It is taking place over the telephone at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and in Seattle, Washington. This is track number one. Please tell me your full name.

Rose Liberman: Rose Liberman.

Q: And what the name that you were born with? Your maiden name?

A: Szternberg.

Q: Szternberg. Ok. And when were you born?

A: Iwas born in Poland.

Q: In what city were you born in?

A: Kielce.

Q: And what year, what day and what year?

A: July 20, 1927.

Q: Let's talk a little bit about your family. Your parents. What were their names?

A: My mother's name, Malka. My father's name was Meyer. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: And had they lived in that town for a long time?

A: Not too long.

Q: Where had they come from?

A: They were born in Kielce.

Q: So they were there?

A: Yeah, right, right. Then I was born in Kielce too. And I had a sister, Shindel and my brother Jacob.

Q: Were they older or younger?

A: They were younger. I was the oldest.

Q: You were the oldest?

A: Yeah.

Q: What kind of work did your father do?

A: He was a butcher. They had a butcher store, a kosher store, yeah a butcher store, yeah.

Q: Did your mother work?

A: I don't think so. She had small children. Besides, she died, she was 32 and I was six years old. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Did you live in town, in the center of town or out in the countryside?

A: Pardon me.

Q: Where did you live in Kielce? Did you live in town or out in the countryside?

A: You mean in Kielce. That was a city.

Q: You lived in the city.

A: Yes.

Q: Did you start school?

A: Well after my mother passed away, I was taken to my aunt and uncle. My grandparents and other uncle lived in Sosnowice, which is another city. And over there | started school and Hebrew school. I went to Hebrew school in the afternoon and in the morning to day school, yeah.

Q: Before that, do you have any memories of Kielce at all from that time? I know you were a very little girl and you left when you were six.

A: Yes.

Q: Do you have any memories of Kielce at all or they don't start til later?

A: About what?

Q: Memories of your life in Kielce.

A: In Kielce, not really. No, I mean it was good. You know my mother was good, wonderful to me. My father and I get relatives. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Did you have a lot of extended family, grandparents, aunts and uncles?

A: Pardon me.

Q: Did you have many aunts and uncles and cousins?

A: Not in Kielce, in Sosnowice. I had my mother's sister, Esther and she was married to her husband Josel. And then I had my mother's brother, Jenefus, his wife Hannah. Then I had my mother's sister, Miriam. She was married to Herman. Unfortunately they all perished. They had children too, sure.

Q: Was your family a religious family?

A: Very religious, orthodox. My mother was very gaparo sheitel. [ph]

Q: You do remember your mother?

A: Oh yeah. Not really. My cousin. I have a second, this is my second cousin. She is a first cousin to my mother. She remembers. My mother was very tall and blond but I don't remember it very much.

Q: You don't remember?

A: And I don't have any pictures of her. I wish I did.

Q: What did she die from? Do you know?

A: Pneumonia. They didn't have an antibiotic a hundred years ago and not the care we have now. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: So then you, as you said, after she died, you moved to Sosnowice.

A: I was raised by my aunt Esther and my uncle. My grandparents lived nearby.

Q: And then you started school. So this is about 1933 or so?

A: Yes, yes.

Q: What was life like for you there?

A: It was nice, yeah it was good. I had a lot of friends in school.

Q: You did? Did you go to a, was the day school a Jewish school or were there Christians --

A: No, was a regular school. No, it was a regular public school.

Q: So there were Jewish and non-Jewish children.

A: I would think so and I went to Hebrew school after I came home. They sent me to Hebrew school. I went there for two hours every day. Yeah.

Q: What kind of interests did you have? Did you like to do any sports when you were young?

A: Not really. No sports, no. No, reading. More reading.

Q: You liked to read?

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: What language did you speak at home? https://collections.ushmm.org Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection

Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 8

A: Yiddish. We speak Yiddish yeah. Later and Polish too, of course.

Q: And Polish in school? Did you experience, before the war started did you experience any anti- Semitism?

A: Not really. No, no. All the people probably knew but children. We didn't know much.

Q: Did you play at children's houses who were not Jewish?

A: I don't think so. We have only Jewish friends.

Q: And what kind of neighborhood did you live in? Was it a Jewish neighborhood?

A: It was Jewish, mostly Jewish people, yeah. Nearby synagogue, yeah. Yes.

Q: Any special holidays that you remember before the war?

A: Well I remember of course, Passover. I remember I used to get new shoes and a new dress and you know. Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur. My grandfather used to bless me. We were very sad.

Q: Did you go back to Kielce to see your father and your brother and sister at all?

A: You mean after the war?

Q: No, this is before the war started.

A: They didn't take me. They used to talk to them you know, I don't know.

Q: You didn't go back and forth? https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: No I did not go. I never seen them.

Q: Was your father able to come visit you?

A: They did not. It was hard for them I believe. They were not so good roads, you know.

Q: Was your family, do you know if they were Zionists at all, at that time, your aunt and uncle?

A: I don't believe it. I don't believe.

Q: So you had a good childhood up til --

A: Up til I was six, well later on yeah. Yeah.

Q: You went to regular school and you went to Hebrew school and you liked to read you said.

A: Yeah.

Q: Had you, before the war started, before 1939, had you ever heard of a man named Hitler?

A: No.

Q: You had not?

A: No. I think we were too young. We didn't talk about Hitler. No

Q: Of course. When did things start to change? When did your life start to change?

A: Well of course in 39 when Germany invaded Poland.

Q: Ok so now we're in September 39 and -- https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: September third yeah.

Q: What are your memories of that time? Do you remember --

A: Very bad, very bad yeah.

Q: Can you describe some of them?

A: Iremember my family, they want to go to a smaller place. Sosnowice was a big city and they wanted to run away, go places where maybe smaller places where there would be Polish people that we can hide or whatever. I think we went someplace, but didn't go too far. And then was very hard time, yeah, it was very hard for us yeah. And then the ghetto started. We had to go back.

Q: Oh you went back?

A: Yeah, the ghetto started in 19 -- yeah.

Q: So when you saw your first German soldier, do you have any memories of that time, seeing German--

A: It was very sad, was terrible.

Q: Was it very frightening for you?

A: It was frightening.

Q: For a young girl.

A: Yeah, yeah it was very frightening yeah. We heard the bombs coming over our -- you know. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: And what did your aunt and uncle say to you about this? Did they explain it to you?

A: Well it's a war. It maybe won't take long. We don't know. Maybe won't take long and we can be back you know in our place. You go to school and do what we did before. You know.

Unfortunately, didn't happen.

Q: You said in 1940, the ghetto started?

A: Yes.

Q: Did you have to wear a yellow star, a star of David?

A: Yes, unh hunh, yes we did.

Q: Where? On your arm?

A: Unhhunh. And in the back, the back. On the arm and on the back.

Q: Again how did that make a 12 year old child feel?

A: Well was not, was not really funny. It was sad.

Q: Do you remember feeling frightened?

A: Pardon me.

Q: Do you remember feeling frightened?

A: Yeah we were frightened yeah. We were frightened every moment. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Were you able to go out on the street at all?

A: Certain, there was certain area where we could go. We could go in the bakery. We had to stay in line to get bread. It was rationed. Sometimes was not enough and we didn't get nothing.

So went back without anything.

Q: What other kind of food was your aunt and uncle able to get for you?

A: Pardon me.

Q: What other kind of food was your aunt and uncle able to get for you?

A: Well and there was also a kitchen that we could go and get some soup, I guess. Yeah some soup. They could go and get some soup to bring home.

Q: Were you in somebody else's apartment? Were you sleeping in somebody else's apartment?

Or were you still in your aunt and uncle's place?

A: Well in the ghetto we had little small places, yeah.

Q: It wasn't where your aunt and uncle lived? It was a different place?

A: No, we lived together. We stayed the same.

Q: Was it in the same apartment or house that they had?

A: No, no, no.

Q: It was a different, it was --

A: Different, no it was different area. Srodula. Yeah, it was different yeah. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Were there other families with you?

A: There were a lot of other people, yeah, the families, yeah.

Q: For instance in the bedroom. How many people slept in your bedroom?

A: Oh about five or six probably yeah. There was no bathroom so like had to go outside you know, not inside you know. Yeah.

Q: What did you do during the day besides wait in line for bread?

A: They took us to sweep the streets, make the toilets for the Nazis.

Q: To clean the toilets?

A: Clean the toilets, sweep the snow. Yeah.

Q: What, children your age, you had to do that?

A: Yeah, sure.

Q: What about your friends? Were you able to talk about this with your friends?

A: Did they talk about what?

Q: Were you able to talk about what was happening to your girl friends?

A: Yeah, what could they do. They couldn't do much about it. They couldn't do nothing yeah.

Later on we were working. I was working at a factory in the ghetto sewing. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: What were they making in the --

A: They were making German, the for soldiers the --

Q: The uniforms?

A: Uniforms right. Stitching you know the --

Q: And how did you know how to do that?

A: I learned. I did some sewing. I learned sewing. I didn't like it but I learned. I did yeah.

Q: You were still living with your aunt and uncle. And cousins.

A: Yeah, yeah.

Q: What were they doing? Do you know? Did your aunt and uncle have to work?

A: They did too some other work yeah. I don't remember exactly what they did. Yeah.

Q: And their little children, their two little girls.

A: Yeah.

Q: What was the next change, the next thing that happened? You said you were in a factory making uniforms and that was what, 1941.

A: Yeah, in 42, beginning 42, middle of the night they came with big black buses and they took us to a place in Sosnowice called Srodula. They gathered a lot of young women you know. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: These are all young girls they took.

A: Yeah, yeah some older. Depends yeah.

Q: Were you able to say goodbye to your aunt and uncle?

A: No, we didn't know where we were going. We thought we're coming back. We didn't know.

Q: They just came to your factory and got you. Is that it?

A: Yeah then they sent us to concentration camp, to Oder Altstadt.

Q: How long were you in Srodula, is that how you pronounce it?

A: We stayed, I think a couple days. I cannot remember exactly.

Q: And then they sent you?

A: They took us, took us also with big buses. I think yeah.

Q: And the first place they took you, do you remember?

A: This was a concentration camp but I stayed. I didn't go to another place.

Q: And the name of that?

A: Pardon me.

Q: And the name of the place they took you to?

A: Oder Altstadt https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Where was that?

A: It was Krist Tritenau [ph].

Q: In Czechoslovakia?

A: Yes, Resengeberg [ph] was the mountain. Yeah, yeah.

Q: And you worked for what?

A: Reichstag. Pardon me.

Q: And you worked?

A: Iwas working in a factory, Spinerai [ph]. We were making from wet yarns, big machines, wet yarn to roll on to dry have, on big rolls and then they had to dry it. Then we had to take it up, very heavy, and they put to dry it and we had to take it off manually you know so. Yeah. I used to get sores on my feet because was wet. Used to wear the clogs. You had no socks on it.

Q: Now you're about 15 years old, right?

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Q: Where did you sleep?

A: Well in the barracks.

Q: You slept in a barracks? https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: Yeah. We had straw mattresses. We were two in one, one bed. You know, two. I was, there was one. She was already married this lady. She was from P, from another city. Different, because we were not all. I mean where we came, there were from different, they came from different places too. They were about, we were about 140 but they brought others, maybe 300 from other places. There were Hungarian people. There were different yeah, yeah, yeah. But she was from Poznan, from Poland and very nice lady yeah.

Q: Do you remember her name at all?

A: Bronya, Bronya, yeah. Very nice lady.

Q: And her last name?

A: No, no.

Q: So you slept in the barracks. How much food did they give you?

A: Oh how much. We got potato peels. We had to get up 5:00, go down in the barracks downstairs. There was this thing called Wora [ph]. Then afterwards you had to stay outside.

There were like in, there were appel, like talking. The Germans were talking to us. The Jews are you know our enemy. You know Jude is in the onglich [ph] you know. And then --

Q: Did you understand German at that time?

A: Yes, I did already, a little bit, yes. But Yiddish and German are a little bit alike. But to learn it. I learned fast so --

Q: So you understood what they were --

A: Yes, yes I understood. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: What does that do to a 15 year old girl?

A: Terrible, terrible, terrible. And they said anything happened they will cut our hair off and if you should try to escape they" lI kill us and you know.

Q: Were you wearing a uniform?

A: Yeah, yes start of the uni [ph] , yeah the same we had, wooden clogs. That's how we went to work. We had to go ten kilometers. We went to Tredenvasen [ph], Redistadt [ph] and Oder Altstadt. We had to go to the factory in Tredenvasen. Ten kilometers.

Q: Every day you had to walk there?

A: Yes, yes. Rain or shine, you walked, yeah. And then we came at night time. The same thing.

You stayed outside for the appel and you know once a week you had the shower on a Friday.

They turned off the w --, they let us in like a cattle. And they checked on the water, very hot.

And I wasn't aware. I fainted one time because water hot.

Q: Because the water was so hot?

A: Yeah, they . Maybe I was too weak, yeah. That was only once a week we had the shower and then --

Q: Were you wearing a striped uniform or just regular clothes?

A: Not the striped. No we were wearing navy blue like it was like a -- no it was like a dress. And the star of David on the side and the back. The yellow star, yes. Yes.

Q: Did you have any contact with your family in Sosnowice or in Kielce? https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: What happened? One of the girls she was from Auschwitz. Born in Auschwitz, OSwiecim.

And she had two sister, she had one sister. She passed away about three years ago. In, but in Israel. And she had a sister ten years old, Mala. So she was really good. The one from the lager, from the concentration camp, Irma Hoffman. She liked Lola and she was allowed to go home to Sosnowice to visit. Her parents were sent out from Auschwitz to move to Sosnowice. You know because they had, they made all this concentration in Auschwitz you know. So at that time she went, my family found out that she came so they sent me a picture, family picture was taken about a month before the war and they sent me a challah and something else. I still have the tip jacket and under my mattress you know. Yeah. And the challah that was the only thing I had.

And she brought her sister. She brought her sister, Mala. She was only ten years. She wasn't allowed. But she brought her. At that time. This was when the, it was not a concentration camp at that time. It was a working camp.

Q: Yeah a labor camp.

A: Yeah, that's arbeit. Arbeit's lager you know. And then it was concentration later. And Mala still is alive but her sister, her sister, Frema, she passed away. And she had another sister, Rushya, she also died in Israel. But when I went in Israel I went to see. My daughter went also with me. And we visited them. We were so happy to see her.

Q: What were their last names, that family's last names? Do you remember?

A: Mala, Mala Mannheimer. Mala, Rushya and Lola Mannheimer. Yeah.

Q: You're living in the barracks and you're working in the factory with the yarn rolls.

A: Yes, Spinerai Fenberg [ph], yeah Spinerai.

Q: Was that very difficult work? Was it hard labor?

A: It was hard. The machines were very high up. Yeah it was very hard, was hard to reach. https://collections.ushmm.org

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Q: Did you wear anything special, any protection?

A: No, no, no, no. I had to wear a leather apron, yeah, yeah.

Q: And you knew how to start and stop the machines?

A: Yes, manually, right. And then there were some German women. I mean we had police. I mean there were girls. You know German women guarding us, even if you go to the bathroom, you couldn't go by yourself.

Q: Oh they would come with you?

A: They would come and stay til we went out. Yes. The German women, some were very nice.

They tried to help us. They were not, yeah.

Q: Did you ever have the day off or did you have to work every day?

A: I don't even remember. No it's probably every -- maybe, maybe one day off. I don't know. I remember there was Yom Kippur and we or somebody had some candles. I think somebody found candles and we lit, and then we went, did some prayers, outside. Because they didn't see us so they're sending and did some -- that's all I remember. Otherwise we did not observe any holidays. We didn't know the day or the month or the year or nothing.

Q: Tell me about some of the other women there that were working with you. You said there were a few hundred girls in the factory.

A: Hundred?

Q: A few hundred girls were working in the factory? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 21

A: Different. There were other, I had a second cousin. She was about ten miles, kilometers.

Also in the same city Oder Altstadt. I didn't know. She was working in the kitchen. I reunited with her after the war, when we were liberated. I found her. I didn't know she was there. Yeah.

She didn't know where I was.

Q: Were any of the women pregnant who were in your factory? Working with you?

A: What?

Q: Were any of the women pregnant? Were any of the women pregnant?

A: Pregnant. There was one woman. Unfortunately, yeah she was pregnant when she came. And well she was wearing like was she wearing a thing, it had not a belt but on the side you know you could, didn't see so much. But when she was almost due, she had, middle of the night. She had to, they had to kill the baby. They were afraid. Yeah. It was so sad. I remember that yeah. Very bad.

Q: Who was in charge of the camp? Do you know?

A: Irma, Irma Hoffman. We had unterscharfiihrer. Unterschafiihrer was Roprecht.

Q: What were they like?

A: Irma and then there was another Hoffman. Irma was a lagenfithrer. And daughter looks. She was, she was Jewish but I mean she was you know I have to say like a kapo you know. The man was a kapo in Lodz whatever you know, the ghetto. And then there was another Mrs. Wolz was another one.

Q: What was Irma Hoffman like? How -- https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: Well they used to come inspections. You know. Before we went when we arrived in concentration camp, they took us for a inspection you know. We got out, standing naked. They inspected us you know. Whether we are able to be able to work. Was Mengele you know? And it was, thanks god, I was in good health so I went, but otherwise they sent to Auschwitz you know. It was terrible.

Q: You mentioned Mengele's name? Did --

A: I, in my paper, I don't think I did. Roprecht I did. Roprecht, I didn't, no.

Q: You did not see him is what you're saying? You don't think you saw him?

A: I don't think so, no.

Q: Now you're working and you stayed there until the end of the war.

A: Yes, yes. I was not transferred to another camp. For good behavior. Otherwise they would send me someplace else.

Q: I see. Did most of the young women stay in that --

A: There was one girl. She tried to escape. Yeah, she tried to escape. They caught her and she was killed yeah. I mean we had wires around. I mean you couldn't escape. But when we were marching to work or home, she tried but --

Q: What were the march, can you describe the conditions, what it was like to march to the factory?

A: It was cold. It wasn't fun. I mean we had guards walking with us.

Q: Did everybody help each other? Did the women help each other? https://collections.ushmm.org

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A: With what?

Q: Well you know--

A: Mental yeah. I mean physical.

Q: Physically or emotionally. Were you of support to each other?

A: Yeah we support each other. We support each other. We are hoping that we will be liberated soon and we want to come back to see our family and like it used to be and you know be normal like everybody else.

Q: What else did you talk about?

A: We were talking about our past. And what happened to us. Why it happened and we always said, excuse me. (clears throat)

Q: So then your next memory. You obviously got through all that and then what happened?

A: We were liberated May 9, 1945.

Q: What was that like?

A: Englishman. It was, it was like another world. We could, they said that we are free, you know.

Q: How did you know you were liberated?

A: Well they came and told us that we can, that we are free. We don't have to be slaves no more.

We don't have to be you know. Actually we were working when we are working in the factory https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 24 later on. We had to go and sneak over the mountains and we had to make but -- I mean to like to hide yeah to, sad to say. Because the bombs coming, the Russians, pardon me.

Q: You mean like tunnels or shelters?

A: Yeah they were, we were tried, they asked us to make shelters I mean. I mean it wasn't snow.

I don't know how to say a kop in Polish, that meant. I don't know how to say it.

Q: To be protected from the bombs.

A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meanwhile it was cold and very, very cold. I remember it was so cold. We had no coats, anything.

Q: You just had the one dress?

A: Yeah. It was awful. Yeah.

Q: You went up into the mountains and made these shelters.

A: Yeah because we were in the area was Regengiburg [ph]. It was a lot of mountains over there. Yeah. I mean it was beautiful but not for -- you know what view for purposes what we were doing.

Q: So then the liberation comes and did you --

A: They took us, also with buses and then I found my Sosha Katz. It was my mother's or whatever, second cousin you know.

Q: Before that, was it the American army, which army?

A: American, yeah, English yeah. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 25

Q: Did you know any English language at that time?

A: Not really.

Q: You couldn't talk to them?

A: No, I spoke some German. I mean I knew German, Polish yeah. But they understood what we, you know, there isn't much to talk. I mean they help us. Give us some food and then --

Q: And then they told you to leave. Then they told you --

A: Yeah, yeah. We were so happy we're dancing yeah. A lot of people died after the war. They died. And my cousin she had typhus, Sosha. She got typhus. We stayed together but I didn't get it so it was like -- and then it took us two or three day til we arrived in Reichenbach. It was Germany, then Polish. Then the Poles over parts, Reichenbach. And then in Reichenbach, we went to register you know. It was a Jewish committee and we went to register. Well if we have somebody maybe we find somebody, some family still alive. And then Sosha found she had a brother and through Red Cross, her sister was in Sweden, Helen. She still lives, she lives in Israel. Right. So and then I found another cousin, Jazha Yentel. Yentel was my mother's second cousin. Yeah. She was my mother's first but my second cousin. She is in Australia now.

Q: You found all these people when you were in Reichenbach?

A: Reichenbach. When we registered at the Jewish committee. We used to come there for meetings and all that. And then --

Q: Where did you get food and things like that? And where did you stay?

A: Food? I guess they give us some food over there, yeah. They had a kitchen. I think they had a kitchen or something there. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 26

Q: Where did you live, where did you stay?

A: What happened, my cousin Yentel, she met her husband, Rolf and they got an apartment.

They got married already or they got married later about a few months later. And they asked me to, she will take care of me and I stayed with them. Yeah. And Sosha, she stayed nearby with her brother, Shemet. She stayed and others. The street named Aschenskego [ph]. I remember the street was Polish name. And I lived with Yentel. And about a year later she had born a little girl, Lily and right now at the present they live in Melbourne, Australia. But anyway I stayed there.

Q: Did you try to go back to Sosnowice or Kielce?

A: Kielce, tried to go to Kielce but we were told that in Kielce, there are a lot of pogroms. And they said the Polish people said if the Germans didn't finish you, we will finish you. So we were frightened. I was going to go to see my mother's grave which we never did.

Q: There was the famous pogrom on July 4"", 1946.

A: Yeah, yeah it was terrible at that time. There was anti-Semitism in Poland at that time.

Q: Right, so you did not go back. To Kielce.

A: No, no, we stayed in Reichenbach.

Q: Did you go to Sosnowice at all?

A: No, we didn't go. Yes, actually we did go. I went with my cousin Yentel to see the house where we lived and to see if there's anything left. I mean if the house, to see in that place we stayed. When we went in, Polish people lived and then Yentel noticed. I had a portrait of my aunt Marian so and my cousin said to get some water or something. Meanwhile my cousin took https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 27 the portrait and they had called. We ran away from yeah so that was the visit yeah. That was terrible.

Q: So then you're living in Reichenbach?

A: Reichenbach and at the same place where Yentel lived there was a professor, Komikovsky.

He was professor. He was from England. And I learned English. He was teaching me English.

He lived his wife and his daughter, Sosha yeah. And I learned some English, which was helpful.

There were a lot of people registered. They had relatives in the United States and then I had to translate for them into the right English, which was nice yeah. Anyway after maybe --

Q: You're 19 years old now in 1946?

A: Yeah and then my cousins about Yaronjan have, he was working for the government in Poland, for the government. He was self, him and another partner they was buying wheat, wheat and selling whatever. And he embezzled a lot of money. And they ran away to Sweden. And then they left my cousin Yentel with Lily.

Q: With the baby?

A: About a year and a half. And then he told her that, as Lily get older. I mean she should go to Danzig, Gdynia and then wait and he will send papers for her, legal because they were illegal.

You cannot go illegal. You have to go legal you know. And she went and I had to go to kibbutz.

Was an orthodox kibbutz called Agudah.

Q: Where was that?

A: This was in Reichenbach.

Q: Oh, in Reichenbach. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 28

A: Yeah and there was a religious kibbutz. Also there was the leader her name was Yentel, very nice woman, young woman. We did, prayed three times a day. Shacharit, Minchah and Maariv. And they fed us you know and yeah. And then --

Q: Did you work at all or did you go to --

A: I don't think so. I don't remember we were. No. We were praying.

Q: You're too busy praying.

A: Yeah we're praying, we're busy praying. I mean we went, used to go out. You know because they took us to a park and took us places. But they fed us which was good, kosher food, very nice.

Q: And what about any classes?

A: And then my father's second, Sosha, I met her brother. She met, she lived in another place, another street you know. And I used to go there. They did, they asked me to come visit, you know. And next door was a tailor. His name was Goldberg. They had a little boy, Esha. Very nice. A wife, a little boy about three years old. And my husband, he learned tailor . When he ran away he went to Russia. He was 16 or 17. He ran away from Poland.

Q: You're talking about your future husband right?

A: Yes, he was from Lodz. He was and Gerten [ph] was in Russia. And then from Russia he came also to Reichenbach and Sosha, my relative. She and her brother lived next door. So she said, oh next door is a nice young man. He introduced me and he introduced me but I was so religious. I didn't want to go out with somebody you know not so religious. So after a while we used to secretly, we used to meet. And then about in 48, I think. No, in 49. In 49 we decided to --so my cousin since she left, he left money. We were going to go, she had a sister in Sweden, Holmsted. She had a sister Hela, Schmig. There was another brother, Jonah but he passed, he https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 29 died so we decided to go to Sweden and run away from Poland because we were going to Poland you know. It would be a better life in Sweden. But we had to go illegal. We couldn't get legal papers. You know had to wait a few years. Anyway so my cousin was in Gdynia. She had money and she said I'll pay. Her husband will give, left some money. It paid forme. Anda man, Estonian, he was supposed to smuggle us on a coal boat. And it was Sosha, and my cousin's brother. His brother in law, Simon. And my future husband, Alex. He was supposed to go to Israel but he didn't want to go away cause he liked to go with me. But he had no money.

He had a nice watch and suit and some little money and he gave this man. And he got he sold his suit so he got a suit from my cousin's husband which is shorter you know but anyway, he bought it. And we went on a coal boat. We had to wear a uni, a combinizon [ph],how you say, like no pants. Like working.

Q: Overalls?

A: Overalls, right, right, black ones right. No paper, nothing. And this Estonian man said Pll bring you food so you don't have to worry, bring you water and food. Middle of the night there was a Swedish boat. Coal. He let us, he said slowly we got into the port. We got in slowly.

The coal, we're laying on top of the coal. Coke gives out a lot of gas. We were laying on top of it. [remember two days or so. It was terrible. Lot of gas, fumes you know. So my cousin, my Yentel's brother in law, Simon, he said if we stay a little more hours we will die here because he said he had, it was impossible. There is a little you know like from the, on the deck, there is a little opening and he crawled. He was a big guy. He crawled up and he tried to open it. It didn't open and then the captain's son came with a gun. He thought was some kind of intruders you know. So I start, I spoke English so I start to cry and I said we ran away from Poland. We like to go to Sweden. This was Swedish boat. When we went on the boat you know. And after all he let us out. We start to throw up, me and Sosha were throwing up from you know. Then we washed, give us you know showers. And they fed us and my husband, future husband. He did some sewing and ironing for the cook and for the f, for you know.

And we stayed, whatever, I remember two days on the boat, I mean the ship. And then we arrived in Helsingborg. Helsingborg in Sweden. We arrived middle the night in a park. I mean he met us. He said you, I am going to drop you off and you will go where you have to go but https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 30 when you go, report to the police, don't say how you got here. Just say you had seen it a Swedish boat. You got on the boat. And that's when, then you got out. So we asked. He gave us money and I said he will, suddenly he refused it at, don't, just thank, thank us. We'll be you know we have this order. Very, very nice his son and the captain and so and they let us off in Helsingborg, middle of the night. Right there, not far was a park. Police with white gloves. It was like heaven for us. We had come out from hell. And we stayed til the morning. In the morning we were looking. They told us to go to buy tickets to Holmsted. We got to a train station and we got to the train station. I bought tickets. Went on the train, Inside the train were signs Reichnik forbutten [ph], smoking not allowed. When I saw Reichnik forbutten I thought something with the juden, something about the Jews. I think in Sweden also. Was nothing. Anyway, we arrived in Holmsted and Hela was waiting for us. She took us. They lived in a big house. Some other people, refugees.

Q: How did she know that you were coming?

A: I don't know for some reason. I mean they probably knew because Rolf he was already there and Yaja that she communicated somehow. Yeah but she knew that we are coming cause she paid money for me yeah. They was close and then we stayed a couple days, washed off. Then we had to go to police in Holmsted to report. So we told them, yeah they interviewed each of us separately. We had to say, we knew that what we have to say that we are in a way we smuggled.

That we were on the way from Poland. We didn't want to stay in Poland, got about anti- Semitism. And then that we would love to, then we come, we saw a Swedish boat. We got on the boat and then we are here to report you know. And that was yeah it wasn't so bad. And then they reported, Judes Moziska fur Exambling [ph] in Stockholm. The Jewish Moziska fur exambling for example again in Stockholm. And they and then they called places where we could get work and then from work, they assigned places where we could live, you know get the rooms someplace.

And then they said they give us money to buy you know some clothes.

Q: What city are you in now? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 31

A: In Holmsted. Holmsted in Sweden , it's not far from Malmo. Yeah, Malmo. And then they will give us money but when you start to work we have to pay the money what they give us. And I lived in a place called Mrs. Miss Jensen. And N-Z-N-T, yeah and they had a daughter Bilget and Arlena but no Alice, whatever her name was

Q: This is a Swedish family you're living with?

A: Yes, Ihad, they gave me aroom. I stayed with them. Yeah I lived with the woman yeah.

Q: Did you work?

A: Yes.

Q: What did you do?

A: I was working at factory, Videgren and I was working. They were making like jersey, blouses you know.

Q: Women's blouses? Ladies" blouses?

A: Yeah, I did some sewing sleeves and all the overlook machine you know. Yeah it was nice.

The people were very nice. I couldn't speak Swedish yet. I bought a Polish Swedish dictionary, a book like that to learn Swedish and my future husband Alex, he got another job at another place.

He managed coats. He was the foreman over there you know. How to say it.

Q: A foreman?

A: Right. Men's coats so. So you know that. Whatever, Sosha, what did she do? She, I don't remember what kind of work she did. She did something else, also in the factory yeah.

Q: You're both working at the same factory. You and Alex are working. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 32

A: Yeah, right different jobs and different yeah, big huge factory very nice. People were very nice so there was something I just couldn't imagine what happened to us all those years. You know.

Q: Did you know anything about your family back in Poland, what had happened to them, at that time?

A: No, they said that they got killed in the --

Q: You knew then that your family did not survive?

A: No, no, no. I know that my grandfather died I was told, but my grandmother, my uncles, all my aunts and the children and my uncles and the two little girls, Sarah and Rivka. No, and my uncle Pinchas had a little boy Mendel. That's terrible. It was so sad.

Q: What about your brother and sister? Did you know what happened?

A: No, no. We don't know what happened.

Q: You don't know. Or your father?

A: No, no, what happened, nothing. We didn't go back to Kielce because of the pogroms, you know. I was set to go there.

Q: Now you're working in the factory and you're with --

A: We worked there

Q: Then what happened? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 33

A: Isaved some money and then in 49. 49 we got en, 49 got engaged. And later we got, we got married. Wait a minute, 48 we got engaged. 49, 49 excuse me. My memory isn't so great. And then we got a, oh we had a nice -- we, there was a friend, I mean known by Vladislavovski [ph], a mansion, very wealthy person in Holmsted. He had a big house, big. And every day, I mean every Friday or so we used to go to his house. He wasn't married. He had a housekeeper.

Gunila. And we used to eat fish. All kind of, different kind of fish, all kind of things. A lot of refugees come. Maybe could sit til three in the morning. We are talking, very nice. Then.

Q: What year did you get married? 49?

A: 49. It was in his house, big, he had a big house. So in a big house we got married and I didn't have a dress.

Q: You got married at his house?

A: Yes.

Q: How wonderful.

A: Yes. There was about a hundred people there. Everything paid. And then --

Q: With a rabbi?

A: Leah Fisher was a religious, religious teacher. There was Rabbi Malma, he officiated. I had to do mine in Swedish in guten and there is one lady, Karen Pollock who is from Malmo.

Her husband is a Scot, he's an MD. But anyway, when she comes we speak Swedish and I mention Leah Fisher. It was my teacher, you know, religion teacher, the officiant. Anyway so we got married. Then we got an apartment. We lived a small, yeah apartment. One large room and had a kitchen. There was no bathroom upstairs. No we had to go downstairs. Anyway and then I went and I learned. I already knew Swedish quite a bit. I was reading the newspapers and I learned from -- I still have that Swedish Polish book. I took a typing class. Witha__. I https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 34 worked, I worked still and then I went to school and I got a job in the bank. I had somebody. My son was born in 1951, June sixth. And then I still worked a little bit. I had a girl who lived downstairs. I mean a girl and her parents. She, a young and she was watching my --

Q: The baby?

A: Baby? Yeah. And then we stayed in Sweden let's see. We stayed there six years, yeah.

Q: Oh, til 1954?

A: Yeah. And then my husband said I have a boy in Sweden. There's no Jewish life. There's no Hebrew school. He will grow up. He won't nothing about Jewish life. And we had neighbors, Friedman. They had family in New York so they applied through the Jewish organization, Joint.

Q: The Joint Distribution committee. Yeah.

A: Yeah, Joint Distribution, right. We applied and after a year or so we got the papers and they, we, they took us to. They took us from there we went to Germany. In a boat. When we arrived yeah. It might not, it wasn't mentioned but someplace else. We met, my husband met his step brother, my husband's mother. His father died young. His mother remarried later on. He was from Lodz. His father died earlier. And so we met this, his father's, step, Chaim Lieber you know. With family they went alone to Sweden but he didn't know. So they, she had a sister Hannah the wife. She had a sister in Chicago. And they were going to Chicago. So they said we could go with them. Start with them and then go, will take the train whatever, they take us to, whatever. They assigned us to go. First they assigned us to go to Tucson, Arizona. But then they said in Tucson it's hot. They don't need tailors because people wear shorts and whatever.

So they assigned us to go to San Francisco.

First we want to go to our friend in Newark and Vladislovoski the cousin Gomperov in Cleveland but when he wrote, I still have that letter from Gomperov, he wrote in Cleveland, Ohio it's cold and you know it's damp, damp in winter and hot in summer. Not a good, you" ll be better off, go to San Francisco where which we did. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 35

Q: What did America mean to you at that time?

A: Pardon me.

Q: What did the United States mean to you? What did America mean to you?

A: Oh well a new world. Yeah a new world. A new world. You know being in a new world you know. Yeah was entirely different. And then when we arrived. So then we stayed a couple days in Chicago with, they were delighted you know. This --

Q: Did you come by boat?

A: To Chicago. Yes.

Q: Do you remember the name of the boat you were on?

A: No, no, no. Iam not sure. It was on the Rhine. I'm not sure what boat, yeah.

Q: So then you come into --

A: It was set to depart from Sweden. I had made a lot of, we made a lot of friends. I had a friend, she passed away in heaven. They liked my son there so much. They used to invite us all the time and some other people. But when we got met in Sweden they make called lishniakalos [ph].

They're nice in the church and all over in case, if somebody, if I've been married before or be, you know what I mean. And they send me telegrams and oh -- had a beautiful wedding. I did the full portraits on the bedding. I didn't have a dress. There was a Polish young woman, Yanina, she borrowed me dress. She borrowed me. I had a wedding dress. I never had one. But it fitted exactly and very, very nice. Anyway so then we, the train, we were assigned to go to San Francisco. When we arrived also from the Jewish committee in San Francisco, there was also German ladies. Mrs. Erman. They were waiting for us. They brought us food, bags of food. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 36 They took us to a hotel on Eddis, they called the William Penn. It was kind of not really in very good place. Lot of black people, that which we didn't --- I was afraid of sometimes. I didn't know. And then I had to go downstairs, cook in the basement. I saw a black guy. I was so frightened. But anyway we didn't stay too long.

They found a place for us. Then my husband got a job in a tailor shop. Yeah, for Robert Brown he worked. First he worked for another one, Pelsner was the name. But then they told him there is a better place where he could go. He's more expense. Others, expensive clothes and he worked over there. And he worked there and what did I do? I don't remember. I didn't work the time. A few years later, my husband got sick. No, he didn't get sick yet. He got sick. He was 46 or 47. He got coronary heart attack.

Q: Did you have any other children?

A: Yes. My daughter. Mary. This is the one you talked. She was born five years later. She was born in yeah in April, April 11 yeah, April 11, 1956. My son was born June 28, 51.

Q: So you were there raising your two children?

A: Then we lived on a street, yeah on Edy street, not far from the hospital in a -- used to go to the hospital. Mount Zion yeah.

Q: Did people ask you about your experiences?

A: When I met people who were also concentrate from Poland, from concentration camps, yeah.

Q: Did you all talk about your past, about what you had gone --

A: Well we, we belonged right away we belonged to a synagogue. First we lived in an area called Richmond district. We go to Hevrah Tillan. Yeah, very orthodox synagogue. And my husband worked yeah. Life wasn't bad at that time. It was good. And then when my husband got sick, and I went, I learned later on, I went to school to Hills Business College. This happened https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 37 when my husband got sick. I had to go to you know, I have to go to work and do something you know. Then first I was work in the children's store part time. I took my daughter sometimes with me. With everything. I used to work in the evening from four, four to nine. Was not too far from the house. You take a bus yes. So then later on when he got sick, and my husband was not good. I went to Hills Business College. Took accounting and other classes. And I went to work.

I went for nation out of love. This is, I was in charge of Theodore, yeah..

Q: Were you able to travel with your husband at all --

A: Well, we'd take a bus, yes.

Q: Were you able to take any travel abroad? Did you ever go anywhere, to another country?

A: Oh yes. I did. We went to Israel twice, but this is a long -- had to Israel, when we moved, we bought a house. The thing is I got restitution from Germany. | got six, five thousand dollars something you know. And for that money we made down payment on a house and we went to Israel later on. A few years later. We went from our synagogue. The rabbi and people from synagogue. We had a touring guide, Sol Hoffman was our touring guide. We were touring from let's see, from Monday, from Sunday to Friday. Saturday we stayed at the hotel, you know.

Q: What did Israel mean to you at that time in your life?

A: Pardon me.

Q: What did Israel mean to you?

A: Oh my husband and his friend fell on the ground to kiss the ground. Oh there was something I never forget. It was awful. When we arrived in Ben Gurion airport. It was so beautiful yeah.

Then I saw my friends. I went to see. Here at Israel, Kiryat Shmona and Kiryat Israel, yeah. I stayed at my friend. She lives in Ramat Gan. And some friends in Netanya. This was the first time we stayed there. This was Yom Hatzmaot we went. Beautiful, beautiful yeah. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 38

Q: You said you bought a house because you got --

A: Restitution from Germany.

Q: Restitution. How did it feel to get money from them?

A: Of course, money. Well some people said they owe us money what they did to us. Killing our parents. Mine is not, is not really but we were, we had, we were so, you know desperate. We had no money. So this was good but it helped us you know. That was good. Some people said they don't want that money. But I mean how could they? I mean what they did to us. Took away from us everything, took our lives. And everybody you know so it was hell for I, right. So we bought a house and --

Q: So you stayed in San Francisco?

A: Yes. Made a lot of friends, belonged to a synagogue. Very nice. The rabbi just recently retired. I keep in touch. I call him on holidays, yeah very nice. Have a lot of friends in San Francisco, very yeah very nice friends.

Q: When did your husband pass away?

A: He died July 1991.

Q: 91.

A: He died the day before my birthday. My birthday was July 20". He died on eight of Ov, one day before Tisha B'ov. It was terrible, terrible. It's funny. My daughter in law used to make birthday parties for me so he said I won't be able to go up because of stairs. So my son said I'll carry you up. Unfortunately he didn't have to carry up, he died. He had open heart surgery. He had two years before he died. He had open heart surgery in La Jolla near San Diego. He had, we https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 39 didn't go for that purpose. He had like chikela [ph] was facial nerves. He had problems with facial nerves. He couldn't shave his face. He couldn't, it was terrible. Then I had a friend who worked in the, when I worked in San Francisco, I worked, I did payroll. There was a lady. She was from Czechoslovakia, a teacher. She said she saw in the Enquirer, the National Enquirer, an article. There is a doctor, doctor Walz, in La Jolla in the Krips [ph] clinic and he can help you.

And so that's where we went. When we arrived there while he had done this, he suffered a major heart attack. And the doctor said you cannot take him home because you take him on the plane, he'll die. So we just had to stay at the hospital. Then my daughter came and my son. We stayed nearby in hotel.

Stayed there three weeks. I slept on the hotel, it cost you a lot of money and then I took with the shuttle in the morning and I stayed the whole day. After three weeks we came home. You know we came to San Francisco. He went to see his doctor. He was not unfortune. He was not the heart specialist. Was just a regular MD. But he liked him. My husband liked Dr. Goodman because he was nice and his office was nice and clean which was bad. He should have had a heart specialist but anyway. So then you know that's what happened.

Q: When did you move to Seattle?

A: When? I moved to Seattle actually I was in, I was in Kirkland in another place, one year, called Ages because my daughter didn't know about this place. I was one year. I moved here let's see. September, September 2009. It's going to be five years, in September five years. And four years ago had bat mitzvah here. Me and four other women. We had a teacher here. We learned Hebrew but I knew Hebrew and I knew prayers and everything. So and then the Rabbi Zeman. She comes once a week. And she said how about having bat mitzvah. I said that's fine.

Q: That's wonderful.

A: Yeah and my son bought me a tallit, garden of Eden. Garden of Eden, beautiful tallit. Was, came from Los Angeles, beautiful tallit and kepa. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 40

Q: Can we talk a little bit about some of your thoughts and some of your feelings? Do you feel very American now or how would you describe yourself? Polish?

A: Yeah, I like the place where I am here. I made a lot of Jewish friends. Well this is a Jewish place. It's glat kosher. Everything is glat kosher. We have a lot of entertainments here. We have a, speak Yiddish, a lot of people. We have like yesterday Cantor Kolan he comes. My daughter belongs, they belong to conservative synagogue and this cantor, the rabbi very, very nice. I go there on high holidays. We have a synagogue in our place here. Downstairs we have a synagogue. We have services, orthodox services on Shabbat. Friday nights we have reform service. But we have also a rabbi doing the service. Friday dinner we have Shabbat tables.

There's about 40 or 50 of us and we sing zimmart and there's food and it's very, very nice. We have a leader always. Somebody who leads the service, yes, very, very nice.

Q: Do you feel very American?

A: Yes, yeah, yeah. Well I'm still from Europe. Well I'm not. I know that I wasn't born here and I sometimes I think people who live here who didn't go through what we went, they are so lucky. You know unfortunately. But I feel lucky being here. Yeah, I feel very lucky.

Q: Have you been back to Poland at all?

A: No, I don't want to go back.

Q: You don't?

A: Bad memories, no, no. No, no.

Q: What are your thoughts about Germany?

A: Well. I don't want to say it. I wish them what they, what they did to us. I wish them the same what they did to us. I would never go no, no, no. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 A

Q: Do you feel that you lost a part of your childhood?

A: Yes, yes. I didn't go to school. No, I mean I learned. I just wonder myself. I learned all these languages. I can speak Yiddish, Polish, German, Swedish. I lived in Sweden. I still communicate Swedish. I can -- you know I talk to my friend Karen. We sing Swedish when she comes. Oh yeah she's yeah. And we go from the federation. We just went, we had dinner to the federation and they come from the Hadassah here. We have a lot of people coming yeah.

Q: What are your thoughts about Israel are what?

A: Oh I love Israel. My grandson was nedra, few months because he learned. They were studying and then they were traveling to Israel. He loved Israel yeah.

Q: When your children were young, when your son and your daughter were young, did you tell them about what you had gone through, what --

A: Oh yeah, I used to tell them a lot. I used to cry. I started to talk. Even my grandson. My son has three boys. They used to ask me like you interviewing me and I used to tell them. I had tears coming to my eyes. What happened to me.

Q: When your daughter or your son was your age when you were working in the labor camp and all that, did that bring back the memories even more so?

A: Of course, yes.

Q: I mean their lives were so much different when they were your age.

A: Of course, yes. Thanks god they didn't go, thanks god they didn't have to go through what I did. https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 42

Q: Are you angry that you had to go through it and people your age in the United States did not have to go through it?

A: Well there is nothing you could do. There is nothing. It meant to be like this. It's bashert.

It's bashert, yeah. Tragedy yeah.

Q: How often do you think about what you went through?

A: Very often, very often.

Q: Has it increased the older you have gotten?

A: I lay at night and I dream of other times. And I still think ""m in you know it's sad.

Sometimes I -- my husband he used to scream, dream, nightmares you know, that people were, the Germans running after him and you know was screaming middle of the night. Yeah. Bad dreams. Was a sad time.

Q: Do you think you would have been a different person today than you are if you hadn't gone through what you went through?

A: Well I'm thankful I'm in the United States. I'm very thankful for that. I wouldn't have that what I have now. But then I would have the family which was more, more and everything else. I lost everybody. There's no replacement for that.

Q: Has the world learned any lessons from the Holocaust?

A: Did they learn?

Q: Has the world learned? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 43

A: Lhope they did. I mean a lot of people they don't even recognize. They said there has never been anything like this.

Q: Yeah, what is that, when you hear that?

A: It is sad. It is sad, terrible.

Q: Do you remember the Eichmann trial, and if so, what how you felt about that?

A: In Nuremberg.

Q: Adolf Eichmann.

A: Yes, sure, sure yeah, yeah.

Q: What were your thoughts during the Eichmann trial?

A: Ah, it was, it was terrible. I mean it was a good trial. Yeah. I think Eichmann, I think Eichmann came to -- I'm not sure was in our camp. I know Mengele was.

Q: He came to your camp?

A: Yes, well when we were, when they, we arrived, they were checking you know whether we'd be able to work. Yeah, right.

Q: How did you know it was him?

A: We didn't know. They told us later. We didn't know his name, we didn't know. Roprecht was unterschafithrer.

Q: And he was the one to tell you later that that was -- https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 44

A: Yeah, yeah. Irma Hoffman was a mean woman too.

Q: What did she do?

A: She was a lagenfihrer. She was --

Q: What kind of things did she do?

A: She was yelling at us and you know, yeah.

Q: Were you ever beaten? Were you ever attacked?

A: Not that I remember, no. I was, I was behaving. Tried to be good. I was afraid.

Q: Are you more comfortable around survivors, people who've lived through what you --

A: Yes, there are a few here. Unfortunately one passed away. Hannah Lobel. She passed away.

There is one, Pranya Fish. Yeah, she still is. She said she was in the same camp but I don't remember it cause we all changed all these years. When I told her where I was and I take a computer class. And the lady with the computers, she showed me. There was an article about another lady, because I talk about Sosha. She was in Oder Altstadt. I still think I have this article someplace but it was not Sosha. Putishnik is not my -- Sosha was Katz. This was Putishnik. When she showed me this was in the computer. She got it out. She said no, it's not here. But it's strange. There's a picture of her. The mother sent me the picture of her daughter.

And she was in Oder Altstadt. Very strange you know. I don't know how it happened. But I registered. When I was looking on the computer. Last year in April we went, we made the order.

And I looked for some. You know my uncles, I couldn't find nobody. Yeah. They all perished unfortunately. Yeah.

Q: You said you think about your experiences still? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 45

A: Istill do. Every day, every day yeah. But people envy me. They said how can, you went through so much. Yet you smile and you sing. I said what can I do? I mean I smile and I think, but when I'm by myself, I'm sad you know. What can I tell them you know? You cannot, you know cry all the time. You know you can't cry in front of the people you know.

I remembered when the holidays come and I remember that home. My grandparents, my uncle, everybody went to shul. You know it's you know. It's so sad you know.

Q: Do you read about the war or see movies about the war. Is that something you do or not?

A: Do I read?

Q: Do you read books about the Holocaust?

A: I get the newspaper together. There's a lot of articles about Holocaust survivors. It comes so we are getting it. I have to send, I, they have sent me application about three months ago and they ask for a picture before the war and after. I sent application with a picture enclosed and I still didn't, journal comes every three months, four times a year. I have to write them a letter cause I don't have their phone number so I have to write them a letter whether they received. I sent them a picture which was taken at United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, picture. And one family picture which I took from you know from when my lawyer brought it for me. And I still have it. You know my daughter has it, and my son and | sent to my cousin in Australia. You know they have the pictures you know so I have them call me. There are a lot of articles what's going on, the Holocaust survivors yeah. Together, yeah.

Q: You do read about the Holocaust?

A: Oh I read Anne Frank and my grandson went to visit. He was Amsterdam in Holland last year, in Belgium. See the Jewish quarters yeah.

Q: How many grandchildren do you have? https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 46

A: My son has three sons. My daughter's, Sarah and Neil. Yeah very good children.

Q: And they know your story?

A: Oh yeah, yeah. They feel sorry for me but you know. They say grandma you have to you know life is you know is for the living. You can't you know cry all the time. I'm happy that I have children and grandchildren. It's a blessing you know, very nice.

Q: That's a lovely note to end on unless there's something else you wanted to talk about. Is there anything else that you wanted to say during this interview? Anything you wanted to add?

A: I want to add.

Q: That we haven't talked about?

A: I don't know.

Q: Have you been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington?

A: Yeah. Yeah, we were in April. For 20 years. That's why I got reunion, with the, oh yeah, there were a lot of celebrations. We saw a lot of people. We had a dinner. We had a dinner.

There were a lot of people who were not Jewish and they donated money for the museum.

Q: Did you go through the exhibits, the permanent exhibit?

A: Oh sure, yeah.

Q: What were your thoughts when you saw the -- https://collections.ushmm.org

Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 47

A: Oh yeah, very sad yeah. Yeah. What they, what you made it's beautiful. Everything is beautiful. The museum itself. Unbelievable. A lot of pictures. You had a lot of pictures taken yeah. Ihave a lot friend, know Jewish friends they planning to go to museum. Donate money too. Istill, I still send donations _ in the year.

Q: Was it a very painful experience to go through the exhibits?

A: It was painful but was but important, very important yeah.

Q: Do you think it's important to have the museum in the United States, in Washington?

A: Oh sure. Very important yeah. We have in San Francisco the memorial plaques already. In the, on the cemetery they have names and you know survivors, yeah.

Q: Is there anything else you wanted to say, any message to your grandchildren that you wanted to leave?

A: I talk with them every day.

Q: Do you? Wonderful.

A: Yeah, I talk to them every day. They call me, yeah call grandma, how you doing? Don't be sad and be you know. Stay well. We love you. Yeah. It's good to hear that too.

Q: It's wonderful that you made this interview for your children and your grandchildren. That's wonderful that you did. I wanted to thank you for doing this.

A: You're very welcome. Any time. Yeah.

Q: And now I just want to end this by saying that this concludes United States Holocaust Memorial Museum interview with Rose Liberman. https://collections.ushmm.org Contact reference@ushmm.org for further information about this collection Interview with Rose Liberman February 4, 2014 48 (end)