Title: From James Madison to Caleb Wallace, 23 August 1785
From: Madison, James
To: Wallace, Caleb

Dr. Sir
Orange Augt. 23d. 1785
Your favour of the 12th. of July was safely deliverd to me by Mr. Craig. I accept with pleasure your propos’d exchange of Western for Eastern intelligence and though I am a stranger to parental ties can sufficiently con[c]ieve the happiness of which they are a source to congratulate you on Your possession of two fine sons & a Daughter. I do not smile at the Idea of transplanting myself into your wilderness. Such a change of my abode is not indeed probable. Yet I have no local partialities which can keep me from any place which promises the greatest real advantages but If such a removal was not even possible I should nevertheless be ready to communicate, as you desire my Ideas towards a constitution of Government for the State in embryo. I pass over the general policy of the measure which calls for such a provision. It has been unanimously embraced by those who being most interested in it must have but consider’d it, & will I dare say be with equal unanimity acceded to by the other party which is to be consulted. I will first offer some general remarks on the Subject, & then answer your several queries.
1. The Legislative department ought by all means, as I think to include a Senate constituted on such principles as will give wisdom and steadiness to legislation. The want of these qualities is the grievance complained of in all our republics. The want of fidelity in the administration of power having been the grievance felt under most Governments, and by the American States themselves under the British Government. It was natural for them to give too exclusive an attention to this primary attribute. The Senate of Maryland with a few amendments is a good model. Trial has I am told verified the expectations from it. A Similar one made a part of our constitution as it was originally proposed but the inexperience & jealousy of our then Councils, rejected it in favour of our present Senate a worse could hardly have been substituted & yet bad as it is, it is often a useful bitt in the mouth of the house of Delegates. Not a single Session passes without instances of sudden resolutions by the latter of which they repent in time to intercede privately with the Senate for their Negative. For the other branch models enough may be found. Care ought however to be taken against its becoming to numerous, by fixing the number which it is never to exceed. The quorum, wages, and privileges of both branches ought also to be fixed. A majority seems to be the natural quorum. The wages of the members may be made payable for  years to come in the medium value of wheat, for  years preceeding as the same shall from period to period be rated by a respectable Jury appointed for that purpose by the Supreme Court. The privileges of the members ought not in my opinion to extend beyond an exemption of their persons and equipage from arrests during the time of their actual Service. If it were possible it would be well to define the extent of the Legislative power but the nature of it seems in many respects to be indefinite. It is very practicable however to enumerate the essential exceptions. The Constitution may expresly restrain them from medling with religion—from abolishing Juries from taking away the Habeus corpus—from forcing a citizen to give evidence against himself, from controuling the press, from enacting retrospective laws at least in criminal cases, from abridging the right of suffrage, from seizing private property for public use without paying its full Valu[e] from licensing the importation of Slaves, from infringing the Confederation &c &c.
As a further security against fluctuating & indegested laws the Constitution of New York has provided a Council of Revision. I approve much of such an institution & believe it is considerd by the most intelligent citizens of that state as a valuable safeguard both to public interests & to private rights. Another provision has been suggested for preserving System in Legislative proceedings which to some may appear still better. It is that a standing commtee composed of a few select & skilful individuals should be appointed to prepare bills on all subjects which they may judge proper to be submitted to the Legislature at their meetings & to draw bills for them during their Sessions. As an antido[te] both to the jealousy & danger of their acquiring an improper influence they might be made incapable of holding any other Office Legislative, Executive, or Judiciary. I like this Suggestion so much, that I have had thoughts of proposing it to our Assembly, who give almost as many proofs as they pass laws of their need of some such Assistance.
2 The Executive Department Though it claims the 2d place is not in my estimation entitled to it by its importance all the great powers which are properly executive being transferd to the Fœderal Government. I have made up no final opinion whether the first Magistrate should be chosen by the Legislature or the people at large or whether the power should be vested in one man assisted by a council or in a council of which the President shall be only primus inter pares. There are examples of each in the U. States and probably advantages & disadvantages attending each. It is material I think that the number of members should be small & that their Salaries should be either unalterable by the Legislature or alterable only in such manner as will not affect any individual in place. Our Executive is the worst part of a ba[d] Constitution. The Members of it are dependant on the Legislature not only for their wages but for their reputation and therefore are not likely to withstand usurpations of that branch; they are besides too numerous and expensive, their organization vaugue & perplexed & to crown the absurdi[ty] some of the members may without any new appointment continue in Office for life contrary to one of Articles of the Declaration of Right[s.]
3d The Judiciary Department merits every care. Its efficacy is Demonstrated in G. Brittain where it maintains private Right against all the corruptions of the two other departments & gives a reputation to the whole Government which it is not in itself entitled to. The main points to be attended to are 1. that the Judges should hold their places during good behavior. 2. that their Salaries should be either fixed like the wages of the Representatives or not be alterable so as to affect the Individuals in Office. 3 that their Salaries be liberal. The first point is obvious: without the second the independance aimed at by the first will be Ideal only: without the 3d. the bar will be superior to the bench which destroys all security for a Systematick administration of Justice. After securing these essential points I should think it unadvisable to descend so far into detail as to bar any future Modification of this department which experience may recommend. An enumeration of the principal courts with power to the Legislature to Institute inferior Courts may suffice. The Admiralty business can never be extensive in your situation and may be refer’d to one of the other Courts. With regard to a Court of Chancery as distinct from a Court of Law, the reasons of Lord Bacon on the affirmative side outweigh in my Judgment those of Lord Kaims on the other side. Yet I should think it best to leave this important question to be decided by future lights without tying the hands of the Legislature one way or the other. I consider our county courts as on a bad footing and would never myself consent to copy them into another constitution.
All the States seem to have seen the necessity of providing for Impeachments but none of them to have hit on an unexceptionable Tribunal. In some the trial is referd to the Senate in others to the Executive, in others to the Judiciary department. It has been suggested that a tribunal composed of members from each Department would be better than either and I entirely concur in their opinion. I proceed next to your queries.
1 “Whether is a representation according to number, or property, or in a joint proportion to both the most Safe? or is a representation by counties preferable to a more equitable mode that will be difficult to adjust?” Under this question may be consider’d 1. the right of Suffrage. 2 the mode of suffrage. 3 the plan of representation. As to the 1. I think the extent which ought to be given to this right a matter of great delicacy and of critical Importance. To restrain it to the landholders will in time exclude too great a proportion of citizens; to extend it to all citizens without regard to property, or even to all who possess a pittance may throw too much power into hands which will either abuse it themselves or sell it to the rich who will abuse it. I have thought it might be a good middle course to narrow this right in the choice of the least popular, & to enlarge it in that of the more popular branch of the Legislature. There is an example of this Distinction in N. Carolina if in none of the States. How it operates or is relished by the people I cannot say. It would not be surprising if in the outset at least it should offend the sense of equallity which re[i]gns in a free Country. In a general vein I see no reason why the rights of property which chiefly bears the burden of Government & is so much an object of Legislation should not be respected as well as personal rights in the choice of Rulers. It must be owned indeed that property will give influence to the holder though it should give him no legal priviledges and will in generall be safe on that as well as other Accounts, expecially if the business of Legislation be guarded with the provisions hinted at. 2 as to the mode of suffrage I lean strongly to that of the ballott, notwithstanding the objections which be against it. It appears to me to be the only radical cure for those arts of Electioneering which poison the very fountain of Liberty. The States in which the Ballott has been the Standing mode are the only instances in which elections are tolerably chaste and those arts in disgrace. If it should be thought improper to fix this mode by the constitution I should think it at least necessary to avoid any constitutional bar to a future adoption of it.
   The Constitutn of N York directs an experiment on this Subject.
 3 By the plan of representation I mean 1. the classing of the Electors 2 the proportioning of the representatives to each class. The first cannot be otherwise done than by geographical description as by Counties. The second may esily be done in the first instance either by comprizing within each county an equal number of electors; or by proportioning the number of representatives of each county to its number of electors. The dificulty arises from the disproportionate increase of electors in different Counties. There seem to be two methods only by which the representation can be equalized from time to time. The 1 is to change the bounds of the counties. The 2d to change the number of representatives allotted to them respectavely, as the former would not only be most troublesome & expensive, but would involve a variety of other adjustments. The latter method is evidently the best. Examples of a Constitutional provision for it exists in several of the States. In some it is to be executed periodically in others pro re nata. The latter seems most accurate and very practicable. I have already intimated the propriety of fixing the number of representatives which ought never to be exceeded. I should suppose 150 or even 100 might safely be made the ne plus ultra for Kentuckey.
2 “Which is to be preferd an Anual, Trienniel, or Septennial Succession to Offices or frequent elections without limitations in choice or that the Officers when chosen should continue quamdiu se bene gesserint?” The rule ought no doubt to be different in the different Departments of power. For one part of the Legislature Annual Elections will I suppose be held indispensably though some of the ablest Statesmen & soundest Republicans in the U States are in favour of triennial. The great danger in departing from Annual elextions in this case lies in the want of some other natural term to limit the departure. For the other branch 4 or 5 Years may be the period. For neither branch does it seem necessary or proper to prohibit an indefinite reeligibility. With regard to the Executive if the elections be frequent & particularly, if made as to any member of it by the people at large a reeligibility cannot I think be objected to. If they be unfrequent, a temporary or perpetual incapacitation according to the degree of unfrequency at least in the case of the first Magistrate may not be amiss. As to the Judiciary department enough has been said & as to the Subordinate officers civil & Military, nothing need be said more than that a regulation of their appointments may under a few restrictions be safely trusted to the Legislature.
3. “How far may the same person with propriety be employed in the different departments of Government in an infant Country where the counsel of every individual may be needed?[”] Temporary deviations from fundamental principles are always more or less dangerous. When the first pretext fails, those who become interested in prolonging the evil will rarely be at a loss for other pretexts. The first precedent too familiarizes the people to the irregularity, lessens their veneration for those fundamental principles, & makes them a more easy prey to Ambition & self Interest. Hence it is that abuses of every kind when once established have been so often found to perpetuate themselves. In this caution I refer cheifly to an improper mixture of the three great departments within the State. A Delegation to Congress is I conceive compatible with either.
4 “Should there be a periodical review of the Constitution? Nothing appears more eligible in theory nor has sufficient trial perhaps been yet made to condemn it in practise. Pensylvania has alone adopted the expedient. Her citizens are much divided on the subject of their constitution in general & probably on this part of it in particular I am inclind to think though am far from being certain, that it is not a favourite part even with those who are fondest of their Constitution. Another plan has been thought of which might perhaps Succeed better and would at the same time be a safeguard to the equilibrium of the constituent Departments of Government. This is that a Majority of any two of the three departments should have authority to call a plenipotentiary convention whenever they may think their constitutional powers have been Violated by the other Department or that any material part of the Constitution needs amendment. In your situation I should think [it] both imprudent & indecent not to leave a door open for at least one revision of your first Establishment; imprudent because you have neither the same resources for supporting nor the same lights for framing a good establishment now as you will have 15 or 20 Years hence; indecent because an handfull of early sett[l]ers ought not to preclude a populous Country from a choice of the Government under which they & their Posterity are to live. Should your first Constitution be made thus temporary the objections against an intermediate union of officers will be proportionably lessen’d. Should a revision of it not be made thus necessary & certain there will be little probability of its being ever revised. Faulty as our Constitution is as well with regard to the Authority which formed it as the manner in which it is formed the Issue of an experiment has taught us the difficulty of amending it; & Although the issue might have proceeded from the unseasonableness of the time yet it may be questioned whether at any future time the greater depth to which it will have stricken its roots will not counterballance any more auspicious circumstances for overturning it.
5 & 6 “Or will it be better unalterably to fix some leading Principles in Government and make it consistant for the Legislature to introduce such changes in lessor matters as may become expedient? can censors be provided that will impartially point out differences in the Constitutions & the Violations that may happen.[”] Answers on these points may be gatherd from what has been already said.
I have been led to offer my sentiments in this loose forms rather than to attempt a delineation of such a plan of Government as would please myself not only by my Ignorance of many local circumstances & opinions which must be consulted in such a work but also by the want of sufficient time for it. At the recei[p]t of your letter I had other employment and what I now write is in the midst of preparations for a Journey of business which will carry me as far as Philadelphia at least & on which I shall set out in a day or two.
I am sorry that it is not in my power to give you some satisfactory information concerning the Mississippi. A Minister from Spain has been with Congress for some time & is authorised as I understand to treat on what ever subjects may concern the two nations. If any explanations or propositions have passed between him & the Minister of Congress, they are as yet on the list of Cabinett Secrets. As soon as any such shall be made public & come to my knowledge I shall take the first opportunity of transmitting them. Wishing you & your family all happiness I am Dr Sir Yours friend & Servant
J Madison Jr
The Constitutions of the several States were printed in a small Volume a year or two ago by order of Congs. A perusal of them need not be recommended to you. Having but a single copy I cannot supply you. It is not improbable that you may be already possessed of one. The Revisall of our laws by Jefferson, Withe & Pendleton beside their Value in improving the legal code may suggest some things worthy of being attended to in framing a Constitution.


Title: To James Madison from Jean August Marie Chevallié, 27 August 1785
From: Chevallié, Jean August Marie
To: Madison, James

Sir
New york the 27. Augustus 1785
Me. Chevallié merchant of Rockefort, my father embarked in 1778 in the Caracter of supercargo upon the Ship le fier Roderigue belonging to Me. Caron de Beaumarchais, and treated of the Cargo with the State of Virginia. Some Contestations having been raised after wards among them, my father having manifested to Me. Caron de Beaumarchais the désire to discontinue all Connection, the latter gave him in payment of his Commission, a bill of fourty six thousand Pounds of tobacco, and a délégation of £420. Pounds hard moneys, Payable by the thrésaury of the State upon the sums that are due to him, with the intérest of these two sums from the first of July 1778 to the day of Payment.
Repeated disasters having dissipated all the hopes of tranquility wich a considérable fortune gained with infinite pain had given to my father, he resolved to send me to this continent, in order to obtain what is due to him as well by congress and the State of Virginia, as by different individuals of Philadelphia and of yorktown. Many men of Great considération espécially the Minister of the Marine, his first Secretary, the Mis. de la fayette and the Count delatoushe, knowing how little he had merited the misfortunes that oppress him, désirous to Give him a testimoney of their esteem and of their wishes, for the final arrangement of his affairs, in order to Conserve his reputation unimpaired to this day, these noblemen gave me their lettres of recommandation written with the greatest force to the french Consuls and to many members of Congress and to some men of distinction in the State of Virginia. The most flattering of them is addressed to you, Sir, by the Mis. de la fayette. I reserve to myself the honour to deliver it into your hands in about á mounth, when I intend to set out to Richmond. I shall do all that is in my power to deserve the support of your protection. It is impossible, Sir, to express the Sentiments of Gratitude, with wich I shall be penetrated, if you put it in the power of an only Son to be useful to a father he cherishes and to justify the good opinion wich has been conceived of a young man of twenty years. With the highest respect and esteem I have the honour to be Sir Very obédient and most humble Servant
Chevallié fils


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Jefferson, 1 September 1785
From: Jefferson, Thomas
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Paris Sep. 1. 1785.
My last to you was dated May 11. by Monsr. de Doradour. Since that I have received yours of Jan. 22. with 6. copies of the revisal, and that of Apr. 27. by mr Mazzei.
All is quiet here. The Emperor & Dutch are certainly agreed tho’ they have not published their agreement. Most of his schemes in Germany must be postponed, if they are not prevented, by the confederacy of many of the Germanic body at the head of which is the K. of Prussia, & to which the Elector of Hanover is supposed to have acceded. The object of the league is to preserve the members of the empire in their present state. I doubt whether the jealousy entertained of this prince, & which is so fully evidenced by this league, may not defeat the election of his nephew to be king of the Romans, & thus produce an instance of breaking the lineal succession. Nothing is as yet done between him & the Turks. If any thing is produced in that quarter it will not be for this year. The court of Madrid has obtained the delivery of the crew of the brig Betsy taken by the Emperor of Marocco. The Emperor had treated them kindly, new-cloathed them, & delivered them to the Spanish minister who sent them to Cadiz. This is the only American vessel ever taken by the Barbary States. The Emperor continues to give proofs of his desire to be in friendship with us, or in other words, of receiving us into the number of his tributaries. Nothing further need be feared from him. I wish the Algerines may be as easily dealt with. I fancy the peace expected between them & Spain is not likely to take place. I am well informed that the late proceedings in America have produced a wonderful sensation in England in our favour. I mean the disposition which seems to be becoming general to invest Congress with the regulation of our commerce, and in the mean time the measures taken to defeat the avidity of the British government, grasping at our carrying business. I can add with truth that it was not till these symptoms appeared in America that I have been able to discover the smallest token of respect towards the United states in any part of Europe. There was an enthusiasm towards us all over Europe at the moment of the peace. The torrent of lies published unremittingly in every day’s London paper first made an impression and produced a coolness. The republication of these lies in most of the papers of Europe (done probably by authority of the governments to discourage emigrations) carried them home to the belief of every mind, they supposed every thing in America was anarchy, tumult, and civil war. The reception of the M. Fayette gave a check to these ideas. The late proceedings seem to be producing a decisive vibration in our favour. I think it possible that England may ply before them. It is a nation which nothing but views of interest can govern. If it produces us good there, it will here also. The defeat of the Irish propositions is also in our favor.
I have at length made up the purchase of books for you, as far as it can be done for the present. The objects which I have not yet been able to get, I shall continue to seek for. Those purchased, are packed this morning in two trunks, and you have the catalogue & prices herein inclosed. The future charges of transportation shall be carried into the next bill. The amount of the present is 1154 livres 13 sous which reckoning the French crown of 6. livres at 6/8 Virginia money is £64-3. which sum you will be so good as to keep in your hands to be used occasionally in the education of my nephews when the regular resources disappoint you. To the same use I would pray you to apply twenty five guineas which I have lent the two mr Fitzhughs of Marmion, & which I have desired them to repay into your hands. You will of course deduct the price of the revisals & any other articles you may have been so kind as to pay for me. Greek & Roman authors are dearer here than I believe any where in the world. No body here reads them, wherefore they are not reprinted. Don Ulloa in the original not to be found. The collection of tracts on the œconomics of different nations we cannot find; nor Amelot’s travels into China. I shall send these two trunks of books to Havre there to wait a conveiance to America; for as to the fixing the packets there it is as incertain as ever. The other articles you mention shall be procured as far as they can be. Knowing that some of them would be better got in London, I commissioned mr. Short, who was going there, to get them. He is not yet returned. They will be of such a nature as that I can get some gentleman who may be going to America to take them in his portmanteau. Le Maire being now able to stand on his own legs there will be no necessity for your advancing him the money I desired if it is not already done. I am anxious to hear from you on the subject of my Notes on Virginia. I have been obliged to give so many of them here that I fear their getting published. I have received an application from the Directors of the public buildings to procure them a plan for their Capitol. I shall send them one taken from the best morsel of antient architecture now remaining. It has obtained the approbation of fifteen or sixteen centuries, & is therefore preferable to any design which might be newly contrived. It will give more room, be more convenient & cost less than the plan they sent me. Pray encourage them to wait for it, & to execute it. It will be superior in beauty to any thing in America, & not inferior to any thing in the world. It is very simple. Have you a copying press? If you have not, you should get one. Mine (exclusive of paper which costs a guinea a ream) has cost me about 14. guineas. I would give ten times that sum that I had had it from the date of the stamp act. I hope you will be so good as to continue your communications both of the great & small kind which are equally useful to me. Be assured of the sincerity with which I am Dr. Sir Your friend & servt.
Th. Jefferson


Title: To James Madison from William Grayson, 16 September 1785
From: Grayson, William
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
New York 16th. Sepr. 1785.
I opened your letter directed to Colo. Monroe in the first instance, & forwarded the inclosed letters to France, in the public Mail, as I could not hear of any private gentlemen going to whom I could with propriety intrust them.
I have recieved your letter from Philada. & I heartily wish it may suit your Convenience to visit this place, as it will give me particular satisfaction to have the pleasure of seeing you. Exclusive of this I could wish to consult you on some particular matters respecting the State. The requisition is now in the last stage: it is formed on principles to suit only the Eastern & some of the middle States. There seems also to be a radical unwillingless to allow us for our assumptions, although the debt was created for Continental uses; and a proposition (where in the interest was dropped for the present) has been negatived by a considerable majority. The Delegation is strongly impressed with the necessity of supporting public credit; they notwithstanding as well as the Delegates of some other States, hesitate to pass the requisition in its present form. They could wish it was made conformable to the different interests of the Union, & that certain principles might be adopted to facilitate the settlement of the general account. With respect to myself I never admired the idea of facilities. The word implies a payment less than the thing itself. An inundation of a kind of paper money is also to be feared; but for the sake of peace I have been willing to consent as far as one third which is more than the Southern States can ever derive any advantage from.
We have lately recieved a letter from the Governor inclosing one from Soliciter Wood furnishing a melancholy picture of the situation of the public accounts. The Continental Comm. objects to every thing; says he can’t proceed witht. fresh instructions & I fear it is not in our power to obtain such principles as will enable us to bring forward our Accounts. There is also a heavy party here for obliging the States to settle by a particular day, or to pay interest to those who do.
I every day discover more & more the impropriety of remaining longer at this place. It is clear to me that it has an undue influence on our proceedings. Some of the Southern States begin at length to percieve this, & I hope it will not be long before the whole will view it in the same light. My best complimts. to Mrs. House and Mrs. Trist: her arrival among her friends has given me the most sincere satisfaction. In full expectation of seeing you I remain yr. Affect. frd. & Most Obed Sert.
Willm. Grayson.
5 Copies sent of the tryal.
Nothing from Adams.


Title: From James Madison to Ambrose Madison, 20 September 1785
From: Madison, James
To: Madison, Ambrose

Philada. Sepr. 20, 1785
I recd. yesterday yours of the 9 inst. You will do well in hastening the exaction of a Deed from Jones, as you have now actually paid part of the purchase money. His death or a refusal of his wife to concur in a conveyance will produce much perplexity, and possibly Loss. The result of further enquiry here is more favorable than the information contained in my last. I find that Tobo. of the best quality will command 55/. Pa. Curry. that the quality alone is the object of choice, without regard to the river from which it comes—that freight may probably be had at any time, tho’ it is very high as yet, not less than 25/ Pa. Cy. per Hhd. and that storage may be had at 4 or 5/. per Hhd per Month now, but it is supposed it will become cheaper. Notwithstanding these circumstances I shall be very shy of making engagements with persons here; such has been the frequency of unexpected failures. I am inclined to think the safest beginning will be by way of consignment which will leave us at full liberty to continue enterd or drop the plan as we may like, and will not place us in any connection with the fate of people here. A partnership will make our property in these hands liable. A consignment only leaves the property entirely ours. Wheat I am told may be sold for 8/4 per Bushel. Hemp has sold as high as 7d. per H. and the Legislature here has laid some duties which must raise it still higher, or at least favor its price. I believe I shall set off for N. Y. tomorrow or next day. On my return I shall write again unless it sd. be so near my setting out for Va as to be unnecessary. I recd. a letter yesterday from Mr. Jefferson by which I find that a packet is gone on to my father’s for me under seal. Let it not be opened before my return. Adieu


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Jefferson, 20 September 1785
From: Jefferson, Thomas
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Paris Sep. 20. 1785.
By mr Fitzhugh you will receive my letter of the 1’st inst. He is still here, & gives me an opportunity of again addressing you much sooner than I should have done but for the discovery of a great peice of inattention. In that letter I send you a detail of the cost of your books, and desire you to keep the amount in your hands, as if I had forgot, that a part of it was in fact your own, as being a balance of what I had remained in your debt. I really did not attend to it in the moment of writing, & when it occurred to me, I revised my memorandum book from the time of our being in Philadelphia together, & stated our account from the beginning lest I should forget or mistake any part of it. I inclose you this state. You will always be so good as to let me know from time to time your advances for me. Correct with freedom all my proceedings for you, as in what I do I have no other desire than that of doing exactly what will be most pleasing to you.
I received this summer a letter from Messrs. Buchanan & Hay as directors of the public buildings desiring I would have drawn for them plans of sundry buildings, & in the first place of a Capitol. They fixed for their receiving this plan a day which was within one month of that on which their letter came to my hand. I engaged an Architect of capital abilities in this business. Much time was requisite, after the external form was agreed on, to make the internal distribution convenient for the three branches of government. This time was much lengthened by my avocations to other objects which I had no right to neglect. The plan however was settled. The gentlemen had sent me one which they had thought of. The one agreed on here is more convenient, more beautiful, gives more room & will not cost more than two thirds of what that would. We took for our model what is called the Maisonquarrée of Nismes, one of the most beautiful, if not the most beautiful & precious morcel of architecture left us by antiquity. It was built by Caius & Lucius Caesar & repaired by Louis XIV. and has the suffrage of all the judges of architecture who have seen it as yeilding to no one of the beautiful monuments of Greece, Rome, Palmyra & Balbec which late travellers have communicated to us. It is very simple, but it is noble beyond expression, and would have done honour to our country as presenting to travellers a morsel of taste in our infancy promising much for our maturer age. I have been much mortified with information which I received two days ago from Virginia that the first brick of the Capitol would be laid within a few days. But surely the delay of this peice of a summer would have been repaid by the savings in the plan preparing here, were we to value it’s other superiorities as nothing. But how is a taste in this beautiful art to be formed in our countrymen unless we avail ourselves of every occasion when public buildings are to be erected, of presenting to them models for their study & imitation? Pray try if you can effect the stopping of this work. I have written also to E. R. on the subject. The loss will be only of the laying the bricks already laid, or a part of them. The bricks themselves will do again for the interior walls, & one side wall & one end wall may remain as they will answer equally well for our plan. This loss is not to be weighed against the saving of money which will arise, against the comfort of laying out the public money for something honourable, the satisfaction of seeing an object & proof of national good taste, & the regret and mortification of erecting a monument of our barbarism which shall be loaded with execrations as long as it shall endure. The plans are in good forwardness & I hope will be ready within three or four weeks. They could not be stopped now but on paying their whole price which will be considerable. If the Undertakers are afraid to undo what they have done, encourage them to it by a recommendation from the assembly. You see I am an enthusiast on the subject of the arts. But it is an enthusiasm of which I am not ashamed, as it’s object is to improve the taste of my countrymen, to increase their reputation, to reconcile to them the respect of the world & procure them it’s praise.
I shall send off your books, in two trunks, to Havre within two or three days to the care of mr Limozin, American agent there. I will advise you as soon as I know by what vessel he forwards them. Adieu Your’s affectionately
Th: Jefferson

[Enclosure]

J. Madison to Th: J Dr.
Dollars
1783.Nov. 5.To paid Stockdon at Princeton9.133

       Dr. Wiggins
2.333

       Laurence
4.533

13.
to cash
  86.666

102.666

Cr.
Dollars
Nov. 2.By cash98.
12.By do  4.666102.666
Dr.

1784.

Dollars

Apr. 6.
To paid Dudley (by mr Maury) for a pr.

  spectacles
13.666

To my assumpsit to do. for a 2d. pr. spectacles.
13.666

To my bill on the Treasurer of Virginia for
407.333

Balance in your favour
 68.666
503.333

Cr.

1783.
Nov. 22.
By cash at Philadelphia
170.

26.
By bill on the Treasurer of Virginia (given me at Annapolis)
333.333
503.333

Dr.

1784.
May 25.
To pd. Aitken for Blair’s lectures for you
4.666

Balance in your favor
 77.666
82.333

Cr.

1784.

By balance as above
68.666

By my omission to pay Dudley for the 2d

  pr of spectacles
 13.666
82.333

1784 [1785].
J. Madison to Th: J. Dr.

Sep. 1.
To amount of advances for books &c. as by acct. rendered this
lt s

  day
1154–13

Testament politique d’Angleterre 12mo
2–10

Memoires de Voltaire 12mo
3– 0

Frederic le grand. 8vo
  4– 0

1164– 3


Title: To James Madison from Caleb Wallace, 25 September 1785
From: Wallace, Caleb
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir,
Lincoln County. Sep. 25th. 1785
Two Days ago I received your favour of the 23. of August. Having only an Evening’s leisure after attending a very Strong Session of our Court for three Weeks to answer several of my Eastern Correspondents I only intend a short Line at present. In my Letter by Mr. Elijah Craig I believe I omitted particularly to inform you that last December a Deputy from the Several Militia Companies in this District assembled to take under Consideration the State of the District. A Number of Grievances were then stated which cannot be redressed whilst in Connexion with Virginia; and therefore it was recommended to the People to elect another Convention to take into Consideration the propriety and Expediency of a Seperation. This Convention met in May, and unanimously resolved that a Seperation was indispensable but at the same Time it was thought expedient to recommend the election of a third finally to decide upon the Question. At this an Address to the Assembly praying for an Act of Seperation, and several Resolves expressing the Reasons on which the Prayer is founded and the Terms on which the Seperation is requested were agreed on. I must confess I am not pleased with the Splendid Dress in which they are cloathed, and wish the Substance of the Resolves had composed the Body of the Address, but hope that impropriety in form will not injure a Cause which I am anxious should be determined on the most friendly and liberal principles.
George Muter and Harry Innes esquires are appointed to wait on the Assembly with our Petition, who will explain our Views more to your Satisfaction than I can do by Letter. It would be presuming in me to Name these Gentlemen by Way of Recommendation; And I am perswaded you will take Pleasure in patronizing the District by which they are sent so far as our Wishes accord with your Judgment, and further would be unreasonable for me to request. I am Dr Sir, Your friend & Servant
Caleb Wallace


Title: To James Madison from John Hatley Norton, 2 October 1785
From: Norton, John Hatley
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir,
Winchester Octr. 2d. 1785.
With this you will receive a Letter from me dated Yesterday which contains such Sentiments as wou’d naturally arise from the peculiarity of my Situation & my Brothers, in which I shou’d hope you will find nothing dictatorial or offensive. I have wrote to many of my friends on the Assembly in the same Style, who will no doubt concur in such Measures as may be conducive to the Interest of particular Individuals without injury to their own; My principle wish at pres[e]n[t is that] some favorable Clause may pass the House of Assembly preventing the Laws from operating against us in Matters of Accts., & as to Requisitions for Recovery of british Debts, good policy & prudential Motives will no doubt dictate to the Legislature when, & in what manner Individuals under the Class of british Subjects, & Natives, Partners with them, shou’d receive Payment of Debts due to them from Citizens of this State. An allowance of Interest, & Security for these Debts you will probably think but reasonable, as suppose one half the Interest.
There is a Case at present which bears hard on some Individuals; a Transaction happens in the West Indies between two Merchts of this State. The plaintiff by accident finds an Agent for one of the Houses in this State as he came over to do some business, & takes an opporty. before he moves away of geting his Deposition. The defendt. also finds an Agent in Pennsylvania or Maryland whose deposition is absolutely necessary to confront the other, but it cannot be had because the Laws of this Country deny it to him as this Agent is out of the State. This surely is a manifest injury to the defendant, & you will think some provision shou’d be made for his Relief & all others in the same situation. I have taken the Liberty of submitting these matters to your Consideration & dont doubt your perceiving at once the glaring Hardships which must attend persons under similar Circumstances.
Mrs. Norton & family are well & join me in Terms of the highest Respect for you, Your father & family in Orangeburg. Dear Sir Your most obedt Servt
J. H. Norton


Title: To James Madison from Caleb Wallace, 8 October 1785
From: Wallace, Caleb
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir,
October 8. 1785.
By Colo. Muter I troubled you with a short Line; and now have only Leisure to thank you for the Strictures on Government you were so kind as to favour me with. I have yet some other Qu[e]r[i]es on the Subject which I shall reserve for another Opportunity. At present I only beg leave to observe that the Constitution of Virginia provides for the Seperation we have in View in a Way that is unprecedented. An Act of Seperation, I concieve, may direct the whole with but a little more difficulty than a Corporation is established; and so as to prevent a dangerous interval of Anarcy which must otherwise happen. The District has chosen a Convention that is to continue till next April. The Elections though voluntary were made with propriety. This Convention I concieve may be recognized and empowered to direct the Choice of another for the purpose of adopting a Form of Government and organizing it: and in the mean Time it may be provided, that all Officers civil & Military shall continue to enforce the Laws of the present Government with such exceptions as the Case may require. This, or something in this Way may certainly be done with propriety. But I must confess, I find myself perplexed with real Difficulties of another Kind. Our Remote Situation and other local peculiarities excludes us from the Advantages of equal Government whilst connected with Virginia. And the Want of an Export Trade will render us incapable of defraying the Expences of a Seperate Government. The Question then is, Whether our poverty should deprive us of the Rights of Free Men, or not? If it were left to my own Decission, I believe I should advise being contented with a lesser Portion of political Advantages at present, did I not conceive that a Legislature of our own, might do much to regulate Trade or supply the Deficiency, As well as to secure our Inhabitants against the Indians who are daily despoiling us of our property and committing the most horid Murders! Or in a Word, to facilitate the Approach of more happy Days. If the Legislature should accede to the Seperation, I expect the Gentlemen from this Quarter will Solicit your Attention in preparing the Act, and I hope much from your Favour.
This will be handed to you by Capt. Christopher Greenup who I take the Liberty of recommending to you as a Friend I highly esteem for his Integrity and liberality of Sentiment. I have also requested him to shew you a Letter from Colo. M’Dowell and myself addressed to the Speaker of the House of Delegates on behalf of ourselves and the other Officers of this District Court. From the Contents you will easily apprehend the Inconveniencies occasioned by the Inattention or Reluctance of the Assembly to provide for the Support of the Court. I shall only further observe, that after foregoing other Advantages that presented themselves to keep the Court in Existence we have great Reason to complain of the Oversight, and yet to expect a Reimbursement if the Independence of the Judges is thought to be of any Consequence to the public. True it is, that the Court has lingered in a Way greatly to the Injury of the District, but not through the Default of the Judges, but the Want of Houses and Records that could not be procured without Funds. For my own part, upon recieving my Appointment I immediately removed to the Country, and except one Trip to Botetourt to settle my Affairs, I have ever since avoided any Business that would divert my Attention from the Duties of the Office or be otherwise inconsistent, and should now avoid troubling the Legislature on the disagreeable Subject, did not Justice to the Office as well as my Family require it. If it is not too irksome to you to interest yourself in the Application, the Favour will be than[k]fully acknowledged by Dr Sir, Your most ob. Servt.
Caleb Wallace


Title: To James Madison from William Grayson, 14 October 1785
From: Grayson, William
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir.
New York Octob. 14th. 1785.
I have recieved your letter dated at Philada. & shall forward the in-closure to France in the manner you direct. Since your departure, we have been under great anxiety for the fate of Mr. Hardy. On a party to Haerlem heights about ten days ago, he unfortunately bursted a blood vessel, and from frequent hemorrhages, has been in extreme danger till about three days ago, when matters have taken rather a more favorable turn. He has requested me to inform you of his desire to get a seat in the executive Council if practicable, as he thinks the climate of his own country will be more suitable to the situation of his health. He is the more anxious to have this done, as it is not only his own opinion but that of his Physicians, that he will never from the nature of the complaint, be proper for the bar; or indeed for any kind of violent public speaking. He desires you will do him the favor of shewing this to the Speaker & taking such measures as you may deem adviseable.
Nothing new has taken effect since you left this, except that Congress have had information of war being declared by the regency of Algiers agt. these U. S. I am afraid the information is too true: however I will write you again on this subject, the moment the news is confirmed in such a manner as to admit of no doubt.
The suspicion here is that our friends the Brittish have done us this favor in order to make it indispensably necessary for us to imploy their vessels. Perhaps the Spaniards on making peace with the Algerines might wish that their arms might be turned agt. us. The Secy. for foreign affairs is for war with these pirates; but I cannot see the policy of this, & think we had better follow the scandalous example of the European powers, & make peace with them as soon as we can.
Nothing has transpired from Adams, respecting the subject we were talking of, since you left this.
The Report of the Secy. for foreign affairs, respecting Consuls has been recommitted, & he has made another report, principall[y] recommending the vesting the American Ministers with Consular Powers—& giving them extensive limits, where they will have deputies. I shall be obliged to you to let me know as soon as you can conveniently what are your sentiments respecting the price of the Western lands: is a dollar too high all circumstances considered?
By a letter from Colo. Monroe we are informed there are not above 80 families settled on the lands of the U. S.—& these have agreed to go off when Colo. Harmer shall direct them & that the Geographer & Surveyors have left Pittsburgh to execute the Ordinance. From yr. Affect. friend & Most Obed Servt.
Willm. Grayson


Title: To James Madison from George Washington, 22 October 1785
From: Washington, George
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Mount Vernon Oct 22nd 1785
I thank you for the perusal of the enclosed reports—Mr Jay seems to have laboured the point respecting the Convention.
If any thing should occur that is interesting, & your leizure will permit it, I should be glad to hear from you on the subject.


Title: To James Madison from Gerard Banks, 28 October 1785
From: Banks, Gerard
To: Madison, James

Honble Sir
Green Bank. Stafford Cy. Oct 28. 1785.
Prompted by the good of my Country, I hope will sufficiently apologize for my addressing you on some matters of very great importance to our Country. Government at present is certainly in a very confused and unhinged situation, and no doubt calls for the deliberate efforts of a wise Legislature, which I hope is the case at this day. Yet Sir Your knowledge of mankind and things in general must point out to you that experience ever carries the most just and powerful weight; therefore the Virtuous and sensible Gentleman is ever open to conviction and well knows that he may be greatly assisted by the juditious observations of those who may be far inferior to him in point of abilities, I expect to be in Richmond the 4th. of Nov. when I shall be happy to have a conference with you on 2 or 3 Subjects, in which I am flattered you will be well pleased. I am, Honble Sir Yr. mo. obt. hble Servt
Ger. Banks
P. S. The heads or out lines of one of the cases, I have lodged wth. the Honble Joseph Jones esquire.


Title: To James Madison from Arthur Campbell, 28 October 1785
From: Campbell, Arthur
To: Madison, James

Sir
Washington Octo. 28th. 1785
An early acquaintance, a similarity of sentiment, and the deserved estimation you have attained to, in America, encourage me to address you on a subject, that is believed to be highly interesting to the Western Inhabitants, and perhaps not less so, to the eastern parts of the State.
After various essays of the People for a separation, and the subject being agitated, both in Congress, and before the legislature, the period seems to be arrived when a last discussion and final decision are to take place; in performing this weighty task aright, it will not only call for the best exertions of the able politician, but the temper of the good man.
The fixing of proper boundaries may be the most intricate part of the business. Men may be too apt to argue, and perhaps to vote, from their own feelings, and the lights they have at the present day, without taking into consideration, either the interests or approbation of posterity. The decisions now made, ought to invite an affectionate and grateful attachment, which will be more efficacious in promoting public security, than stone walls, or military engines.
On a careful perusal of that signal Act of Congress of April 23. 1784, it must be acknowleged, there is in it, striking marks of wisdom and foresight; yet we may be permitted to doubt, whether it will beneficially apply in all cases. Natural boundaries, where they nearly coincide with artificial ones, surely should have been prefered; and why might not that amendment be made by Congress yet.
From what I have learnt, no doubt it will be expected by most of the States, that Virginia will follow the example of North Carolina, and fix her limits on the highths of the Allegany; a small departure from those limits, may be found the most convenient, and in time satisfactory to all. For instance, a line extended West: from the South West corner of Maryland, to the top of great Laurel-Mountain, thence Southwardly along the top of sd. Mountain, to where it is intersected by the great Kanhawa; up said River to the confluence of little River (near Ingles Ferry), thence South to the top of the Allegany or Apalachian Mountain; thence along the highest part of the same to the North-Carolina boundary. That part of the Western Country, over the Laurel Mountain and above the Kanhawa should be added to what is expected to be the State of Washington. That below the Kanhawa, and north of the 37°. degree, until that parallel touch the top of the Laurel Mountain, and east along that Mountain to the Kanhawa, to be the State of Kentuckey. The remaining half degree to be added to the State of Frankland. This will accord with the plan of Congress. By this scheme, it is judged that three New States might have existance immediately, which would vastly increase the strength, riches, and population of the United States. Washington, with a necessary cession from Pensylvania, would soon become a firm barrier against any attempts from the Western parts of Canada. Kentuckey, and Frankland, would circulate eastwardly some of the riches of Mexico, and keep the Spaniards, the Southern and Western Indians in awe. There may be local and individual interests, that will combat this scheme; but Virginia ought to see, that it will secure her Peace, and promote her lasting prosperity. The actual traveller may form the best judgment, or Commissioners sent to the spot to judge what are the most suitable boundarys; however, Mr. Hutchins Map gives a tolerable correct view of the Country.
I cannot agree with the politicians, who urge, that we must ere long, have a consolidated Empire under one head, and abolish the different legislatures. Equally extravagant it appears, for one, or a few States, to erect a separate government, and dissolve the present Confederacy. Is not there much less difficulty, and far less danger, to limit the large States to a convenient, and suitable bounds; and then parcel out the Western territory, into proper divisions for free Communities, reform such of the Constitutions of the original States, as may be essentially defective and then make an effort, in good earnest, to give purity of manners, and morals, of course public virtue, a prevalence. Then may not twice thirteen States, if so many there be, unite in the closes[t] bands of amity, and reciprocal good offices, as to all national purposes, leaving to each of the Members of the Union, sovereignty and independence, as to internal legislation, and judiciary decisions.
Doctor Price, Abbe Mably, and Monsieur Turgot, hath lately said a number of good things, that ought to be attended to. I suppose we must agree with the latter, that it will take years, yet to come, to perfect our governments. When you, and I, sat in Convention in 1776, I thought the Virginia Constitution, was a specimen of consummate wisdom. I see many defects now; and it would perhaps surprize the World, if Frankland, those wild half civilized People, would produce a Form, as much superior to it, as Massachusetts is to Georgia. Divers essays ought therefore to be made, to improve the form of our government. The time may not be far distant, when we may feel the effects of external force, as well as secret intrigue to destroy it. If my intelligence from a distant Correspondent, is right; Great Britain from the moment she acknowleged our independence, set about devising means to render it of little avail. What she has already done, by introducing luxury, draining our money, impairing public credit, and destroying public spirit, may discover, that she will be systematical, in aiming at our destruction.

The foregoing hints, I have taken the liberty to transmit to you, not doubting but you will improve and make the best use of them; nor would I have used the freedom, had they not been approved, by a respectable Society in the Western Country, who aspires at the character of being real Commonwealths-Men.
I enclose a copy of some Resolves of the Frankland Assembly, that may shew the necessity of the Virginia Legislature, giving some attention to the present state of this Country, and the more especially, as the County of Washington, has no legal Representatives this year. Also a copy of a Petition of the Inhabitants, the original was sent to Mr. Stuart, one of the Members from Botetourt, some time ago; who it is expected, will present it to the Assembly, that our business may go hand, in hand, with that of Kentuckey. I am Sir, with much Esteem & Respect your most obedient Hlb. Servt.
Arthur Campbell


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Jefferson, 28 October 1785
From: Jefferson, Thomas
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Fontainebleau Oct. 28. 1785.
Seven o’clock, and retired to my fireside, I have determined to enter into conversation with you; this is a village of about 5000 inhabitants, when the court is not here and 20,000 when they are, occupying a valley thro’ which runs a brook, and on each side of it a ridge of small mountains most of which are naked rock. The king comes here, in the fall always, to hunt. His court attend him, as do also the foreign diplomatic corps. But as this is not indispensably required, & my finances do not admit the expence of a continued residence here, I propose to come occasionally to attend the king’s levees, returning again to Paris, distant 40 miles. This being the first trip, I set out yesterday morning to take a view of the place. For this purpose I shaped my course towards the highest of the mountains in sight, to the top of which was about a league. As soon as I had got clear of the town I fell in with a poor woman walking at the same rate with myself & going the same course.

Wishing to know the condition of the labouring poor I entered into conversation with her, which I began by enquiries for the path which would lead me into the mountain; & thence proceeded to enquiries into her vocation, condition & circumstance. She told me she was a day labourer, at 8. sous or 4 d. sterling the day; that she had two children to maintain, & to pay a rent of 30 livres for her house (which would consume the hire of 75 days) that often she could get no emploiment, and of course was without bread. As we had walked together near a mile & she had so far served me as a guide, I gave her, on parting, 24 sous. She burst into tears of a gratitude which I could perceive was unfeigned, because she was unable to utter a word. She had probably never before received so great an aid. This little attendrissement, with the solitude of my walk led me into a train of reflections on that unequal division of property which occasions the numberless instances of wretchedness which I had observed in this country & is to be observed all over Europe. The property of this country is absolutely concentered in a very few hands, having revenues of from half a million of guineas a year downwards. These employ the flower of the country as servants, some of them having as many as 200 domestics, not labouring. They employ also a great number of manufacturers, & tradesmen, & lastly the class of labouring husbandmen. But after all these comes the most numerous of all the classes, that is, the poor who cannot find work. I asked myself what could be the reason that so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands? These lands are kept idle mostly for the sake of game. It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth of the proprietors which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues by permitting these lands to be laboured. I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers & sisters, or other relations in equal degree is a politic measure, and a practicable one. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, & to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labour & live on. If, for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be furnished to those excluded from the appropriation. If we do not the fundamental right to labour the earth returns to the unemployed. It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who can not find employment but who can find uncultivated land, shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent. But it is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small landholders are the most precious part of a state.
The next object which struck my attention in my walk was the deer with which the wood abounded. They were of the kind called Cerfs and are certainly of the same species with ours. They are blackish indeed under the belly, & not white as ours, & they are more of the chesnut red. But these are such small differences as would be sure to happen in two races from the same stock, breeding separately a number of ages. Their hares are totally different from the animal we call by that name: but their rabbet is almost exactly like him. The only difference is in their manners; the land on which I walked for sometime being absolutely reduced to a honeycomb by their burrowing. I think there is no instance of ours burrowing. After descending the hill again I saw a man cutting fern. I went to him under pretence of asking the shortest road to the town, & afterwards asked for what use he was cutting fern. He told me that this part of the country furnished a great deal of fruit to Paris. That when packed in straw it acquired an ill taste, but that dry fern preserved it perfectly without communicating any taste at all. I treasured this observation for the preservation of my apples on my return to my own country. They have no apple here to compare with our Newtown pipping. They have nothing which deserves the name of a peach; there being not sun enough to ripen the plumbpeach & the best of their soft peaches being like our autumn peaches. Their cherries & strawberries are fair, but I think less flavoured. Their plumbs I think are better; so also the gooseberries, and the pears infinitely beyond any thing we possess. They have no grape better than our sweet-water. But they have a succession of as good from very early in the summer till frost. I am tomorrow to go to mr Malsherbes (an uncle of the Chevalr. Luzerne’s) about 7. leagues from hence, who is the most curious man in France as to his trees. He is making for me a collection of the vines from which the Burgundy, Champagne, Bourdeaux, Frontignac, and other the most valuable wines of this country are made. Another gentleman is collecting for me the best eating grapes, including what we call the raisin. I propose also to endeavor to colonise their hare, rabbet, red & grey partridge, pheasants of different kinds, & some other birds. But I find that I am wandering beyond the limits of my walk & will therefore bid you Adieu. Yours affectionately
Th: Jefferson


Title: To James Madison from George Washington, 29 October 1785
From: Washington, George
To: Madison, James

My Dr Sir,
Mount Vernon 29th. Octor. 1785
Receive my thanks for your obliging favor of the 20th.—with its enclosure—of the latter I now avail myself in a letter to the Governor, for the General Assembly. Your delicate sensibility deserves my particular acknowledgements: both your requests are complied with—the first, by congeniality of sentiment; the second because I would fulfil your desire.
Conceiving it would be better to suggest a wish, than to propose an absolute condition of acceptance, I have so expressed myself to the Assembly and shall be obliged to you, not only for information of the result but (if there is an acquiesence on the part of the Country) for your sentiments respecting the appropriations—from what may be said upon the occasion, you will learn what would be most pleasing, & of the greatest utility to the Public.
By Colo. Henry Lee I sent you the Reports of the Secretary for Foreign affairs on the Consular Department. I hope you have received them. With every sentiment of esteem & regard I am Dr. Sir &c. &c.
Geo: Washington


Title: Act for Establishing Religious Freedom, [31 October] 1785
From: Madison, James
To:

[31 October 1785]
I. Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor, whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporary rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labours for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which in common with his fellow-citizens he has a natural right; that it tends only to corrupt the principles of that religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing with a monopoly of wor[l]dly honours and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion, and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency, is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency will make his opinions the rule of judgment; and approve or condemn the sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his own; that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them:
II. Be it enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
III. And though we well know that this assembly elected by the people for the ordinary purposes of legislation only, have no power to restrain the acts of succeeding assemblies, constituted with powers equal to our own, and that therefore to declare this act to be irrevocable would be of no effect in law; yet we are free to declare, and do declare, that the rights hereby asserted are of the natural rights of mankind, and that if any act shall be hereafter passed to repeal the present, or to narrow its operation such act will be an infringement of natural right.


Title: To James Madison from William Grayson, 8 November 1785
From: Grayson, William
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
New York Nov. 8th. 1785.
The President being this moment about to set out for Virginia obliges me to be very short at present. We have no authentic advices from Europe respecting the Algerine War, although the Papers speak of several captures of american vessels. Nothing new from Mr. Adams respecting the debts. I will again look at his letters, & give you the necessary information in confidence. You will then judge for yourself as to the expediency or inexpediency of a certain measure.
I shall at all events stay here till next Munday in order to collect some documents which are necessary for the State, & will write you again before I leave this. Mr. Hancock is talked of by the Southern States for President, though I suppose if Governor Nash or Paca were to come forward, they would change their tone.
Since you left this We have had a considerable flurry respecting a motion brought forward by Massachusetz & Virginia respecting the dismemberment of States: The motion is on the journals.
Contracts for the transportation of the Mail are made: two mails a week throughout America, for six months & three mails a week for the six other months—to begin in Jany. next. From yr. Affect. frd. & Most Obed Sert
Willm. Grayson


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 11 November 1785
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Dear Sir
Richmond Novr. 11. 1785
I recd. your favor of the 29th. ulto. on thursday. That by Col. Lee had been previously delivered. Your letter for the Assembly was laid before them yesterday. I have reason to believe that it was received with every sentiment which could correspond with yours. Nothing passed from which any conjecture could be formed as to the objects which would be most pleasing for the appropriation of the fund. The disposition is I am persuaded much stronger to acquiesce in your choice whatever it may be, than to lead or anticipate it: and I see no inconveniency in your taking time for a choice that will please yourself. The letter was referred to a Committee which will no doubt make such report as will give effect to your wishes.
Our Session commenced very inauspiciously with a contest for the Chair which was followed by a rigid scrutiny into Mr. Harrison’s election in his County. He gained the Chair by a majority of 6 votes and retained his seat by a majority of still fewer. His residence was the point on which the latter question turned. Doctr. Lee’s election was questioned on a similar point and was also established; but it was held to be vitiated by his acceptance of a lucrative post under the United States. The House have engaged with some alacrity in the consideration of the Revised Code prepared by Mr. Jefferson Mr. Pendleton and Mr. Wythe. The present temper promises an adoption of it in substance. The greatest danger arises from its length compared with the patience of the members. If it is persisted in it must exclude several matters which are of moment, but I hope only for the present Assembly. The pulse of the H. of D. was felt on thursday with regard to a general manumission by a petition presented on that subject. It was rejected without dissent but not without an avowed patronage of its principle by sundry respectable members. A motion was made to throw it under the table, which was treated with as much indignation on one side, as the petition itself was on the other. There are several petitions before the House against any step towards freeing the slaves, and even praying for a repeal of the law which licences particular manumissions. The Merchants of several of our Towns have made representations on the distresses of our commerce, which have raised the question whether relief shall be attempted by a reference to Congs. or by measures within our own Compass. On a pretty full discussion it was determined by a Large majority that the power over trade ought to be vested in Congress, under certain qualifications. If the qualifications suggested & no others should be annexed, I think they will not be subversive of the principle tho’ they will no doubt lessen its utility. The Speaker Mr. M. Smith & Mr. Braxton are the champions against Congress. Mr. Thruston & Mr. White have since come in, and I fancy I may set down both as auxiliaries. They are however not a little puzzled by the difficulty of substituting any practicable regulations within ourselves. Mr. Braxton proposed two that did not much aid his side of the question; the 1. was that all British vessels from the W. Indies should be excluded from our ports—the 2. that no Merchant should carry on trade here untill he sd. have been a resident years. Unless some plan freer from objection can be devised for this State, its patrons will be reduced clearly to the dilemma of acceding to a general one, or leaving our trade under all its present embarrassments. There has been some little skirmishing on the ground of public faith, which leads me to hope that its friends have less to fear than was surmised. The Assize & Port Bills have not yet been awakened. The Senate will make a House today for the first time. With the greatest respect & regard I have the honor to be Dr. Sir, Yr. Obedt. & very Hble Servt.
J. Madison Jr.
P. S. Inclosed herewith are two reports from the Commssrs for examining the head of James River &c. and the ground between the waters of Elizabeth River & N. Carolina—also a sensible pamphlet said to be written by St. George Tucker of this State.


Title: To James Madison from James Madison, Sr., ca. 12–14 November 1785
From: Madison, James, Sr.
To: Madison, James

ca. 12–14 November 1785. Mentioned by JM in his 18 November answer to his father, and carried from Orange by Captain Barbour. The elder Madison had inquired about “Turpin in the land office,” and requested copies of some journals. Tobacco prices also were discussed.


Title: Resolution Calling for the Regulation of Commerce by Congress, 14 November 1785
From: Madison, James
To:

[14 November 1785]
Whereas, the relative situation of the United States has been found on trial, to require uniformity in their commercial regulations, as the only effectual policy for obtaining in the ports of foreign nations, a stipulation of privileges, reciprocal to those enjoyed by the subjects of such nations in the ports of the United States; for preventing animosities, which cannot fail to arise among the several States from the interference of partial and separate regulations; ⟨and for deriving from commerce, such aids to the public revenue as it ought to contribute;⟩ and whereas, such uniformity can be best concerted and carried into effect by the federal councils, which, having been instituted for the purpose of managing the interests of the States, in cases which cannot so well be provided for, by measures individually pursued, ought to be invested with authority in this case, as being within the reason and policy of their institution;

Resolved, That the delegates representing this Commonwealth in Congress, be instructed to propose in Congress, a recommendation to the States in Union, to authorise that assembly to regulate their trade, and to collect a revenue therefrom, on the following principles, and under the following qualifications:
1st. That the United States in Congress assembled, be authorised to prohibit vessels belonging to any nation, which has no commercial treaty with the United States, from entering any of the ports thereof, or to impose any duties on such vessels and their cargoes which may be judged necessary: all such prohibitions and duties to be uniform throughout the United States, and the proceeds of the latter to be carried into the treasury of the State within which they shall accrue.
⟨ 2d. That over and above any duties which may be so laid, the United States in Congress assembled, be authorised to collect in manner prescribed by an act “to provide certain and adequate funds for the payment of this State’s quota of the debts contracted by the United States,” an impost not exceeding five per centum ad valorem on all goods, wares and merchandizes whatsoever, imported into the United States from any foreign ports; such impost to be uniform as aforesaid, and to be carried to the treasury of the United States.⟩
3d. That no State be at liberty to impose duties on any goods, wares or merchandizes, imported by land or by water from any other State, but may altogether prohibit the importation from any other State of any particular species or description of goods, wares or merchandize, of which the importation is at the same time prohibited from all other places whatsoever.
4th. That no act of Congress that may be authorised, as hereby proposed, shall be entered into by less than two thirds of the confederated States, nor be in force longer than [twenty-five] years, ⟨unless continued by a like proportion of votes within one year immediately preceding the expiration of the said period, or be revived in like manner after the expiration thereof; nor shall any impost whatsoever, be collected by virtue of the authority proposed in the second article, after the year 17 .⟩


Title: From James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, 15 November 1785
From: Madison, James
To: Jefferson, Thomas

Dear Sir
Richmond Novr. 15. 1785:
I acknowledged from Philada. your favor of the 11 of May. On my return to Orange I found the copy of your Notes brought along with it by Mr. Doradour. I have looked them over carefully myself & consulted several judicious friends in confidence. We are all sensible that the fre[e]dom of your strictures on some particular measures and opinions will displease their respective abettors. But we equally concur in thinking that this consideration ought not to be weighed against the utility of your plan. We think both the facts and remarks which you have assembled too valuable not to be made known, at least to those for whom you destine them, and speak of them to one another in terms which I must not repeat to you. Mr. Wythe suggested that it might be better to put the number you may allot to the University into the library, rather than to distribute them among the Students. In the latter case the Stock will be immediately exhausted. In the former the discretion of the professors will make it serve the Students as they successively come in. Perhaps too an indiscriminate gift might offend some narrow minded parents. Mr. Wythe desired me to present you with his most friendly regards. He mentioned the difficulty he experiences in using his pen as an apology for not giving these assurances himself. I postpone my acct. of the Assembly till I can make it more satisfactory, observing only that we are at work on the Revisal, and I am not without hopes of seeing it pass this Session with as few alterations as could be expected. Some are made unavoidable by a change of circumstances. The greatest danger is to be apprehended from the impatience which a certain lapse of time always produces. Mr. W. Maury informs me that Master P. Carr has read at Williamsbg. Horace—Some of Tully’s select orations—Greek Testament, Aesops fables in Greek—ten books of Homer—and is now beginning Xenophon, Juvenal & Livy. He has been also employed in the French. Your other Nephew is at Hampden Sidney. I have no particular acct. of him.


Title: To James Madison from the Reverend James Madison, 15 November 1785
From: Madison, James (Reverend)
To: Madison, James

Dear Col.
Williamg. Novr. 15. 1785.
As several Matters will probably be agitated this Session in wh. the Interests of our University may be deeply concerned, I have wish’d to give you some Information respecting them, & then as a Friend to Science I am sure we shall have a powerful Advocate in our Favour.
The 1st. is involved in the Dismemberment of the State. The Seperation of Kentucky may take Place, without an express Reserve of the Fees due to the College from that Country. If this Matter be pass’d over in Silence, it is possible, the Surveyors might find some Plea to refuse Payment. The Debt is of Importance to the College. Would it not then be prudent to give us a securing Clause in the Act of Seperation wh. may probably be pass’d? The 2d. is of much less Importance, because it is scarce possible that the House will attend to it. The Tenants upon our Lands have grown restive. They intend to petition the Assembly, I am told, for a Destruction of the Coll. Rights, & to vest in them a Fee simple Estate. However unreasonable the Demand may be, yet it will be well for us to have a Friend at Court, & therefore I have mentioned their Intentions to you. Besides that General Petition of the College Tenants, the Holders of the Lands near James Town, lately given to the College, mean also to present a Petition, in Order to have their former Leases, which we consider as illegal, confirmed to them. The Atty. gave it as his opinion that they were illegal. The Object of this Petition then must be, supposing his Opinion to be well founded, to obtain from the Assembly, the Confirmation of what was originally illegal. This last Petition however, will probably attract a general Attention. But I thought it adviseable to mention particularly the first Matter, as an entire Silence of the Act for a Seperation, might be construed by the opposite Party even as a Ground for a Refusal of Payment, or might be considered as a sufft. Plea of Justification in the new Govt. to appropriate those Fees to their own interior purposes, especially as in some of their Resolves respecting their Greivances, the Payment of such Fees to this Coll. is enumerated as one. If we can get no more after the Seperation, wh. is reasonable eno’ perhaps, yet let us have what is due prior to the Seperation. But wd. it not be possible to secure all the Fees due for surveying officers Lands even after the Seperation, the Survey having already commenced? I leave this however to your own better Judgt.
When shall we have the Happiness to see you here. I had hopes the fœderal Court might be some Inducement to bring you down. If it shd still sit, & at a Time your Absence can be spared, perhaps you may be induced to visit us. Whatever may be the Cause of transferring you to this Place, we shall esteem it a fortunate one. My Wife desires to be particularly remembered as well as Dr Cole. Yr. Friend
J Madison


Title: Act Securing the Copyright for Authors, 16 November 1785
From: Madison, James
To:

[16 November 1785]
I. BE it enacted by the General Assembly, That the author of any book or pamphlet already printed, being a citizen of any one of the United States, who has not transferred to any other person or persons the copy or copies of such book, or pamphlet, share, or shares thereof, his heirs and assigns, or the person or persons who have purchased or acquired such copy or copies, share or shares, in order to print or reprint the same, his heirs and assigns shall have the exclusive right of printing and re-printing such book or pamphlet, within this commonwealth, for the term of twenty-one years, to be computed from the first publication thereof; and that the author of any book or pamphlet already composed and not printed or published, or that shall hereafter be composed, being a citizen, as aforesaid, his heirs and assigns shall have the exclusive right of printing and re-printing such book or pamphlet, within this commonwealth, for the like term of twenty-one years, to be computed from the first publication thereof. And if any person or persons whatsoever, shall print, re-print, or cause to be printed or reprinted, within this commonwealth, any such book or pamphlet; or shall import into this commonwealth, from any foreign kingdom or state, any printed or re-printed copies of such book or pamphlet, without the consent of the author or proprietor thereof first obtained in writing, signed in presence of two credible witnesses at least; or who, knowing the same to be so printed, re-printed, or imported, without such consent first had and obtained, shall publish, sell, or expose to sale, or cause to be published, sold, or exposed to sale, any copy or copies of any such book or pamphlet; the person or persons offending herein, shall forfeit to the party injured, double the value of all the copies so printed, re-printed, or imported; or so published, sold, or exposed to sale; to be recovered at the suit of such party, in any court of record within this commonwealth.
II. Provided nevertheless, That no person shall be entitled to the benefit of this act, until he shall have registered the title of such book or pamphlet with the clerk of the council, and procured a certificate of such registry from the said clerk; which certificate the clerk is hereby required to give, taking only three shillings for his trouble.


Title: Amendments to the Act Conveying Canal Shares to George Washington, [16 November] 1785
From: Madison, James
To:

[16 November 1785]
I. Whereas by an act, intituled “An act for vesting in George Washington, esq. a certain interest in the companies established for opening and extending the navigation of James and Potowmack rivers,” and reciting, “that whereas it is the desire of the representatives of this commonwealth to embrace every suitable occasion of testifying their sense of the unexampled merits of George Washington, esq. towards his country; and it is their wish in particular, that those great works for its improvement, which, both as springing from the liberty which he has been so instrumental in establishing, and as encouraged by his patronage, will be durable monuments of his glory, may be made monuments also of the gratitude of his country:” It is enacted, “that the treasurer be directed in addition to the subscriptions he is already authorized to make to the respective undertakings for opening the navigations of Potowmack and James rivers, to subscribe to the amount of fifty shares to the former and one hundred shares to the latter, to be paid in like manner with the subscriptions above mentioned; and that the shares so subscribed be and the same are hereby vested in George Washington, esq. his heirs and assigns forever, in as effectual a manner as if the subscriptions had been made by himself or by his attorney.” And whereas, the said George Washington, esq. in his letter addressed to the governor, which has been laid before the general assembly, hath expressed his sentiments thereupon, in the words following, to wit:—”Your excellency having been pleased to transmit me a copy of the act appropriating to my benefit certain shares in the companies for opening the navigation of James and Potowmack rivers, I take the liberty of returning to the general assembly, through your hands, the profound and grateful acknowledgments, inspired by so signal a mark of their beneficient intentions towards me. I beg you, sir, to assure them, that I am filled on this occasion with every sentiment which can flow from a heart warm with love for my country—sensible to every token of its approbation and affection; and solicitous to testify, in every instance, a respectful submission to its wishes: With these sentiments in my bosom, I need not dwell on the anxiety I feel, in being obliged, in this instance, to decline a favour, which is rendered no less flattering by the manner in which it is conveyed, than it is affectionate in itself. In explaining this obligation, I pass over a comparison of my endeavours in the public service with the many honourable testimonies of approbation which have already so far over-rated and over-paid them; reciting one consideration only, which supersedes the necessity of recurring to every other. When I was first called to the station with which I was honoured during the late conflict for our liberties—to the diffidence which I had so many reasons to feel in accepting it, I thought it my duty to join to a firm resolution to shut my hand against every pecuniary recompence; to this resolution I have invariably adhered—from this resolution (if I had the inclination) I do not consider myself at liberty to depart. Whilst I repeat, therefore, my fervent acknowledgments to the legislature for their very kind sentiments and intentions in my favour, and at the same time beg them to be persuaded, that a remembrance of this singular proof of their goodness towards me, will never cease to cherish returns of the warmest affection and gratitude, I must pray, that their act, so far as it has for its object my personal emolument, may not have its effect: But if it should please the general assembly to permit me to turn the destination of the fund vested in me, from my private emoluments, to objects of a public nature, it will be my study in selecting these, to prove the sincerity of my gratitude for the honour conferred on me, by preferring such as may appear most subservient to the enlightened and patriotic views of the legislature.” And whereas the desire of the general assembly to mark by the provision above mentioned, their sense of the illustrious merits of the said George Washington, esq. at the same time that it is strengthened by this fresh and endearing proof of his title to the gratitude of his country, is superseded by their respect for his disinterested wishes and patriotic views:
II. Be it enacted, That the said recited act, so far as it vests in George Washington, esq. and his heirs, the shares therein directed to be subscribed in his name, shall be, and the same is hereby repealed.
III. And be it further enacted, That the said shares with the tolls and profits hereafter accruing therefrom, shall stand appropriated to such objects of a public nature, in such manner, and under such distributions, as the said George Washington, esq. by deed during his life, or by his last will and testament, shall direct and appoint.


Title: From James Madison to James Madison, Sr., 18 November 1785
From: Madison, James
To: Madison, James, Sr.

Hond Sir
Richd. Novr. 18: 1785
I rcd. yrs. by Capt. Barbour who I hope will enquire as to Turpin in the land office. I wish you rather to confide such business to friends coming here who can be relied on than to refer it to me. I am so little Master of my time, and the Office is removed so far out of the way that I cannot be relied on. I will endeavor to get the Journals for you soon. The price of Tobo. forbids the sale of your Hhd. The Assembly have made some progress in the Revisal, and I hope will go thro’ it. Public Credt. seems to have more friends and paper Money more Adversaries than I had expected. Delegates to Congs. for 1786. R. H. Lee, Wm. Grayson Js. Monroe, H. Lee Jr. Edwd. Carrington. Councilor Carter Braxton. Yr. affe. Son
J. Madison Jr.


Title: To James Madison from William Grayson, 22 November 1785
From: Grayson, William
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir,
New York. Nov. 22nd. 1785.
I wrote you by the last Post, since which other letters have arrived from the gentleman therein mentioned. They came by the last packett; and one is dated as late as the 15th. of September last. In it however there is no mention of the Algerine War. Mr. Jefferson has also wrote by the french packett, but his letter is of an old date. There has been a conference with Mr. Pitt.
That gentleman thinks the war could make no change in the nature of the debts due by or to the citizens or subjects of either country; that the interest is as much due as principal; that the Brittish lawyers hold this opinion. In answer Mr. A. observes the lawyers in America hold a very different opinion respecting the War, and that no jury from New Hamshire to Georgia would allow interest during the war. That the war put an end to all laws and government, consequently to all contracts made under those laws. That it is a maxim of law that a personal right or obligation once destroyed is lost forever: that the treaty & new laws were necessary for the restoration of the contracts or obligations; that the contracts could not be said to have had any existence during the War. Mr. Pitt replied, that if these were the ideas in America, it was necessary there should be some new stipulation respecting the subject.
With respect to the negroes he acknowledged that this was so clear a case, as that satisfaction ought to be made therefor, as soon as the number carried off could be made appear. To this Mr. A. replied, that Colo. Smith who had transacted the business with Sir Guy Carleton could evince it by documents then ready to be produced. He acknowledged also with respect to Mr. A’s. construction of the Armistice there could be no great difficulty: that with reguard to the Posts it was so connected with other matters as not to be decided on singly. As to the commercial treaty there seems to have been a great difference of sentiment; Mr. A. is of opinion that nothing will be done shortly. Mr. Pitt however has promised that during the recess of parliament he will turn his thoughts to those subjects. Mr. A. thinks that the reason why the Elector of Hanover came into the Confederation agt. the Emperor was to preserve peace, in Europe, on our accounts. I need not observe he is a strong advocate for restrictions on their commerce. I have been detained here longer than I expected, waiting to forward some documents which I concieved might be of advantage to our State; & which I have had more difficulty in procuring than I at first expected.
I have by this post sent the aggregate amounts in specie value of the advances to each State; by which it will appear that our State has had but little comparatively. The Union in fact owe her a million of dollars & upwards on this account provided she has made equal exertions in other respects; that is to say she has recieved a million less than her fœderal proportion. It is said however that no advantage can be immediately derived from this circumstance, as it is contended that the interest on all these sums is suspended till the final settlement of accounts by the resolution of the 3rd. of June 1784. This same resolution then holds out an additional temptation for prolongating the settlement. Rhode Island has had a million of dollars; is it likely then to suppose the wishes for the arrival of a period when she is to account? The same observation will apply to those who are similarly circumstanced. It will be difficult then when Virginia meets with embarrassments to get them removed by Congress.
Virginia has a demand (in opposing Lord Dunmore) of £400,000 Virga. money incurred from Sepr. 1775 to December 1776: which I do not know is supported by any resolution of Congress. It is true she has the same reason to have it allowed as Massachuzetz. Besides there are resolutions of Congress which direct assistance which assistance Congress says shall be paid: however it is said here that all this goes for nothing. This subject of our public accounts deserves great consideration. I hope you will [con]sider this letter as confidential & remain Yr. Affect. friend & Most Obedt. Servt.
Willm. Grayson