Title: Ratification without Conditional Amendments, [24 June] 1788
From: Madison, James
To:

[24 June 1788]

   The Antifederalist strategy of offering a list of amendments which would be sent to a second national convention had been explained by Henry. According to the Antifederalists’ plan, final ratification by Virginia would be conditioned upon an acceptance of these amendments.

Mr. Madison. Mr. Chairman—Nothing has excited more admiration in the world, than the manner in which free governments have been established in America. For it was the first instance from the creation of the world to the American revolution, that the free inhabitants have been seen deliberating on a form of government, and selecting such of their citizens as possessed their confidence, to determine upon, and give effect to it. But why has this excited so much wonder and applause? Because it is of so much magnitude, and because it is liable to be frustrated by so many accidents. If it has excited so much wonder, that the United States have in the middle of war and confusion, formed free systems of government, how much more astonishment and admiration will be excited, should they be able, peaceably, freely and satisfactorily, to establish one general government, when there is such a diversity of opinions, and interests, when not cemented or stimulated by any common danger? How vast must be the difficulty of concentrating in one government, the interests, and conciliating the opinions of so many different heterogeneous bodies? How have the confederacies of ancient and modern times been formed? As far as ancient history describes the former to us, they were brought about by the wisdom of some eminent sage. How was the imperfect union of the Swiss Cantons formed? By danger—how was the confederacy of the United Netherlands formed? By the same. They are surrounded by dangers. By these and one influential character, they were stimulated to unite. How was the Germanic system formed? By danger, in some degree, but principally by the over-ruling influence of individuals. When we consider this government, we ought to make great allowances. We must calculate the impossibility that every state should be gratified in its wishes, and much less that every individual should receive this gratification. It has never been denied by the friends of the paper on the table, that it has defects. But they do not think that it contains any real danger. They conceive that they will in all probability be removed when experience will shew it to be necessary. I beg that gentlemen in deliberating on this subject, would consider the alternative. Either nine states shall have ratified it, or they will not. If nine states will adopt it, can it be reasonably presumed or required, that nine states having freely and fully considered the subject, and come to an affirmative decision, will, upon the demand of a single state, agree that they acted wrong, and could not see its defects—tread back the steps which they have taken, and come forward and reduce it to uncertainty, whether a general system shall be adopted or not? Virginia has always heretofore spoken the language of respect to the other states, and she has always been attended to. Will it be that language, to call on a great majority of the states to acknowledge that they have done wrong? Is it the language of confidence to say, that we do not believe that amendments for the preservation of the common liberty and general interest of the states, will be consented to by them? This is neither the language of confidence nor respect. Virginia, when she speaks respectfully, will be as much attended to, as she has hitherto been, when speaking this language. It is a most awful thing that depends on our decision—no less than whether the thirteen states shall unite freely, peaceably, and unanimously, for the security of their common happiness and liberty, or whether every thing is to be put in confusion and disorder! Are we to embark in this dangerous enterprize, uniting various opinions to contrary interests, with the vain hopes of coming to an amicable concurrence?
It is worthy of our consideration, that those who prepared the paper on the table, found difficulties not to be described, in its formation—mutual deference and concession were absolutely necessary. Had they been inflexibly tenacious of their individual opinions, they would never have concurred. Under what circumstances was it formed? When no party was formed, or particular proposition made, and men’s minds were calm and dispassionate. Yet under these circumstances, it was difficult, extremely difficult to agree to any general system.
Suppose eight states only should ratify it, and Virginia should propose certain alterations, as the previous condition of her accession. If they should be disposed to accede to her proposition, which is the most favorable conclusion, the difficulty attending it will be immense. Every state, which has decided it, must take up the subject again. They must not only have the mortification of acknowledging that they had done wrong, but the difficulty of having a re-consideration of it among the people, and appointing new conventions to deliberate upon it. They must attend to all the amendments, which may be dictated by as great a diversity of political opinions, as there are local attachments. When brought together in one assembly they must go through, and accede to every one of the amendments. The gentlemen who within this house have thought proper to propose previous amendments, have brought no less than forty amendments—a bill of rights which contains twenty amendments, and twenty other alterations, some of which are improper and inadmissible. Will not every state think herself equally entitled to propose as many amendments? And suppose them to be contradictory, I leave it to this convention, whether it be probable that they can agree, or agree to any thing but the plan on the table; or whether greater difficulties will not be encountered, than were experienced in the progress of the formation of this constitution.
I have said that there was a great contrariety of opinions among the gentlemen in the opposition. It has been heard in every stage of their opposition. I can see from their amendments, that very great sacrifices have been made by some of them. Some gentlemen think that it contains too much state influence; others, that it is a complete consolidation, and a variety of other things. Some of them think that the equality in the senate, is not a defect; others, that it is the bane of all good governments. I might, if there were time, shew a variety of other cases, where their opinions are contradictory. If there be this contrariety of opinions in this house, what contrariety may not be expected, when we take into view, thirteen conventions equally or more numerous? Besides, it is notorious from the debates which have been published, that there is no sort of uniformity in the grounds of the opposition.
The state of New-York has been adduced. Many in that state are opposed to it from local views. The two who opposed it in the general convention from that state, are in the state convention. Every step of this system was opposed by those two gentlemen. They were unwilling to part with the old confederation. Can it be presumed then, sir, that gentlemen in this state, who admit the necessity of changing, should ever be able to unite in sentiments with those who are totally averse to any change.
I have revolved this question in my mind, with as much serious attention, and called to my aid as much information as I could, yet I can see no reason for the apprehensions of gentlemen; but I think that the most happy effects for this country would result from adoption, and if Virginia will agree to ratify this system, I shall look upon it as one of the most fortunate events that ever happened, for human nature. I cannot, therefore, without the most excruciating apprehensions, see a possibility of losing its blessings—It gives me infinite pain to reflect, that all the earnest endeavours of the warmest friends of their country, to introduce a system promotive of our happiness, may be blasted by a rejection, for which I think with my honorable friend, that previous amendments are but another name. The gentlemen in opposition seem to insist on those previous amendments, as if they were all necessary for the liberty and happiness of the people. Were I to hazard an opinion on the subject, I would declare it infinitely more safe in its present form, than it would be after introducing into it that long train of alterations which they call amendments.
With respect to the proposition of the honorable gentleman to my left (Mr. Wythe) gentlemen apprehend, that by enumerating three rights, it implied there were no more. The observations made by a gentleman lately up, on that subject, correspond precisely with my opinion. That resolution declares, that the powers granted by the proposed constitution, are the gift of the people, and may be resumed by them when perverted to their oppression, and every power not granted thereby, remains with the people, and at their will. It adds likewise, that no right of any denomination, can be cancelled, abridged, restrained or modified, by the general government, or any of its officers, except in those instances in which power is given by the constitution for these purposes. There cannot be a more positive and unequivocal declaration of the principles of the adoption—that every thing not granted, is reserved. This is obviously and self-evidently the case, without the declaration. Can the general government exercise any power not delegated? If an enumeration be made of our rights, will it not be implied, that every thing omitted, is given to the general government? Has not the honorable gentleman himself, admitted, that an imperfect enumeration is dangerous? Does the constitution say that they shall not alter the law of descents, or do these things which would subvert the whole system of the state laws? If it did, what was not excepted, would be granted. Does it follow from the omission of such restrictions, that they can exercise powers not delegated? The reverse of the proposition holds. The delegation alone warrants the exercise of any power. With respect to the amendments, proposed by the honorable gentleman, it ought to be considered how far they are good. As far as they are palpably and insuperably objectionable, they ought to be opposed. One amendment he proposes, is, that any army which shall be necessary, shall be raised by the consent of two-thirds of the states. I most devoutly wish, that there may never be an occasion of having a single regiment. There can be no harm in declaring, that standing armies in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and ought to be avoided, as far as it may be consistent with the protection of the community. But when we come to say, that the national security shall depend, not on a majority of the people of America, but that it may be frustrated by less than one-third of the people of America; I ask if this be a safe or proper mode? What part of the United States are most likely to stand in need of this protection? The weak parts, which are the southern states. Will it be safe to leave the United States at the mercy of one-third of the states, a number, which may comprise a very small proportion of the American people? They may all be in that part of America which is least exposed to danger. As far as a remote situation from danger, would render exertions for public defence less active, so far the southern states would be endangered.
The regulation of commerce, he further proposes, should depend on two-thirds of both houses. I wish I could recollect the history of this matter, but I cannot call it to mind with sufficient exactness. But I well recollect the reasoning of some gentlemen on that subject. It was said, and I believe with truth, that every part of America, does not stand in equal need of security. It was observed, that the northern states were most competent to their own safety. Was it reasonable, asked they, that they should bind themselves to the defence of the southern states; and still be left at the mercy of the minority for commercial advantages? Should it be in the power of the minority to deprive them of this and other advantages, when they were bound to defend the whole union, it might be a disadvantage for them to confederate. These were their arguments. This policy of guarding against political inconveniences, by enabling a small part of the community to oppose the government, and subjecting the majority to a small minority is fallacious. In some cases it may be good; in others it may be fatal. In all cases it puts it in the power of the minority to decide a question which concerns the majority.
I was struck with surprise when I heard him express himself alarmed with respect to the emancipation of slaves. Let me ask, if they should even attempt it, if it will not be an usurpation of power? There is no power to warrant it, in that paper. If there be, I know it not. But why should it be done? Says the honorable gentleman, for the general welfare—it will infuse strength into our system. Can any member of this committee suppose, that it will increase our strength? Can any one believe, that the American councils will come into a measure which will strip them of their property, discourage, and alienate the affections of five-thirteenths of the union. Why was nothing of this sort aimed at before? I believe such an idea never entered into any American breast, nor do I believe it ever will, unless it will enter into the heads of those gentlemen who substitute unsupported suspicions for reasons.
I am persuaded that the gentlemen who contend for previous amendments, are not aware of the dangers which must result. Virginia after having made opposition, will be obliged to recede from it. Might not the nine states say with a great deal of propriety—“it is not proper, decent, or right in you, to demand that we should reverse what we have done. Do as we have done—place confidence in us, as we have done in one another—and then we shall freely, fairly and dispassionately consider and investigate your propositions, and endeavour to gratify your wishes: But if you do not do this, it is more reasonable that you should yield to us, than we to you. You cannot exist without us—you must be a member of the union.”
The case of Maryland, instanced by the gentleman, does not hold. She would not agree to confederate, because the other states would not assent to her claims of the western lands. Was she gratified? No—She put herself like the rest. Nor has she since been gratified. The lands are in the common stock of the union.
As far as his amendments are not objectionable, or unsafe, so far they may be subsequently recommended. Not because they are necessary but because they can produce no possible danger, and may gratify some gentlemen’s wishes. But I never can consent to his previous amendments, because they are pregnant with dreadful dangers.


Title: From James Madison to [Alexander Hamilton?], 25 June 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Hamilton, Alexander

Dear SirRichd. June 25. 88
On the final question the Constitution was this day ratified by 89 ays agst. 79 noes. The majority is small but the proceeding has been free from every flaw & pretext of it; and the Convention as full as could be demanded, two members only being absent and those known to be divided on the subject. Recommendatory amendments will accompany the act of ratification. They are still [to] be settled and will employ us a few days longer. Yrs. respectfully
Js. Madison Jr.


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 25 June 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Dear SirRichd. June 25. [1788]
On the question today for previous amendmends, the votes stood 80 ays—88 noes—on the final question the ratification passed 89 ays—79 noes. Subsequent amendmends will attend the act; but are yet to be settled. The temper of the minority will be better known tomorrow. The proceedings have been without flaw or pretext for it; and there is no doubt that acquiescence if not cordiality will be manifested by the unsuccessful party. Two of the leaders however betray the effect of the disappointment, so far as it is marked in their countenances. In haste Yours
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Edward Carrington, 25 June 1788
From: Carrington, Edward
To: Madison, James

My dear Sir,New York June 25. 88
I was honoured with your favor of the 13th. Instant. I hope the Kentucky Members must have seen that all the objections which have been brought forward by the Antifederalists, upon the ground of the Mississippi are fallacious. Mr. Brown, our Colleague from that Country, is fully convinced of this, and has written to that purpose, to some of the Gentlemen who are attending in convention. I should suppose that his opinion must have weight, as he is zealously attentive to the Interests of the Western settlers.
But little discovery has yet been made of the turn likely to be given to the business in the Convention of New York. The inclosed papers contain the Speeches of the Chancellor for, and of Mr. Lansing against the constitution. Were an Assembly collected disposed to profit by discussion, I would not wish a better advocate for the adoption than Mr. Lansing. Present me to my Freinds & beleive me to be, with great sincerity Yr. Freind & Hl St.
Ed. Carrington


Title: To James Madison from Alexander Hamilton, 25 June 1788
From: Hamilton, Alexander
To: Madison, James

My Dr SirNew York June 25. 1788
I am very sorry to find by your letter of the 13th that your prospects are so critical. Our chance of success here is infinitely slender, and none at all if you go wrong. The leaders of the Antifederalists finding their partisans somewhat squeamish about rejection, are obliged at present to recur to the project of conditional amendments. We are going on very deliberately in the discussion and hitherto not without effect.
Communicate this to our friend G Morris, to whom I have not time to write. And add, if you please, that his friend would certainly be exposed to a suit; but may pay in our paper money; the depreciation of which is about seven per cent. It is possible however that a jury in estimating damages would calculate the Sterling money at the current exchange in paper. But this is not probable. Yrs Affy
A Hamilton


Title: To James Madison from Virginia Delegates, 25 June 1788
From: Virginia Delegates
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir,½ after 12. June 25. 1788
The Inclosed this moment came to hand—contemplating the critical State of the subject it concerns in Virginia we thought it best to dispatch it by express, rather than depend on the progress of the post. We have the Honor to be Sir Yr. Most Obt Servts.
Ed. Carrington
J: Brown
C Griffin


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Pleasants, Jr., 26 June 1788
From: Pleasants, Thomas, Jr.
To: Madison, James

SirRichmond 26th. June 1788
The papers that you herewith receive, were put into the hands of Mr David Ross by Cap Charles Connor better than twelve Months ago, to be delivered to Colo Carrington, but by some Means or other, have been Neglected. They have since Come into My hands with the same Request; I informed Colo Carrington that I had them, who promised to attend to the business—And I have now to ask the favor of you, to unite your endeavours with his in getting Connors Claim put upon a proper footing.
It may not be amiss to observe that I first became acquainted with Cap Connor in the year 1783, when he Came here from Philadelphia Mate of a Small Vessel under My direction—and Continued in My employ—and by his Merit only soon advanced himself to the Command of a Ship belonging to D R & Co—which tho’ they have lately sold, he still Continues to Command. While in My service, and since he hath been So Constantly employed, as to put it out of his power to do any thing in this business himself. I shall just add that I never had to do with a More Active and Industrious Man.
I am too great a Stranger to the business to throw any light upon it, but if after the proper Investigation you will please inform Me of what is Necessary to be done, I shall I expect have an opportunity of Communicating it to him in seer Next, about which time he is expected to Return from a Vo[yage] to Britain. I am, With great Regard, Your Mo ob Hble st
Thomas Pleasants Jr


Title: From James Madison to Alexander Hamilton, 27 June 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Hamilton, Alexander

My dear SirRichd. June 27. [1788]
This day put an end to the existence of our Convention. The inclosed is a copy of the Act of Ratification. It has been followed by a number of recommendatory alterations; many of them highly objectionable. One of the most so is an article prohibiting direct taxes where effectual laws shall be passed by the States for the purpose. It was impossible to prevent this error. The minority will sign an address to the people. The genesis of it is unknown to me. It is announced as an exhortation to acquiescence in the result of the Convention. Notwithstanding the fair professions made by some, I am so uncharitable as to suspect that the ill will to the Constitution will produce [illegible] every peaceable effort to disgrace & destroy it. Mr. H——y declared previous to the final question that although he should submit as a quiet citizen, he should wait with impatience for the favorable moment of regaining in a constitutional way, the lost liberties of his country. My conjecture is that exertions will be made to engage ⅔ds of the Legislatures in the task of regularly undermining the government. This hint may not be unworthy of your attention. Yrs. Affecly.
Js. M. Jr


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 27 June 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Dear SirRichmd. June 27. 1788
The Convention came to a final adjournment to day. The inclosed is a copy of their act of ratification with the yeas & nays. A variety of amendments have been since recommended; several of them highly objectionable; but which could not be parried. The Minority are to sign an address this evening which is announced to be of a peace-making complexion. Having not seen it I can give no opinion of my own. I wish it may not have a further object. Mr. H——y declared previous to the final question that altho’ he should submit as a quiet citizen, he should seize the first moment that offered for shaking off the yoke in a Constitutional way. I suspect the plan will be to engage ⅔ of the Legislatures in the task of undoing the work; or to get a Congress appointed in the first instance that will commit suicide on their own Authority. Yrs. most affetly. & respectfy
Js. Madison Jr


Title: Account with the Commonwealth of Virginia, [28 June] 1788
From: Madison, James
To:

[28 June 1788]
The Commonwealth of Virginia

1788
To James Madison
Dr.

June
To my attendance on Convention as a Delegate from the County of Orange from the 3d. to the 27th. inclusive
}
£12:10:0

Travelling 75 Miles

  1.10.0

 £14. 0.0

Entd. J Beckly Secy.


Title: From James Madison to Alexander Hamilton, [30 June] 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Hamilton, Alexander

[30 June 1788]
Inclosed is the final result of our conventional deliberations. The intended address of the Minority proved to be of a nature apprehended by me. It was rejected by the party themselves when proposed to them, and produced an auspicious conclusion to the business. As I shall set out in a few days for N. York, I postpone further explanations. I have this instant the communications from N. Hampshire via Poughkepsy; also your two favors of the 19 & 20. Yrs. Affecly.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: Edmund Randolph to Virginia Delegates, 30 June 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Virginia Delegates

GentlemenRichmond June 30. 1788.
I do myself the honor of inclosing for your consideration intelligence just received from Colo. Joseph Martin, formerly our Indian agent. I have the honor gentlemen to be with great respect Yr. mo. ob. serv.
Edm. Randolph


Title: From James Madison to James Madison, Sr., 1 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Madison, James, Sr.

Hond. SirJuly 1. [1788]
I send herewith 2 Copies of the Federalist, one for Mr. Leland—the other for Mr. Bledsoe. From Fredg. I may send probably a few more to be distributed as you may think best. I am just setting out Northwardly. John is so well as to be able to travel. I continue well myself. My affecte. regards to my mother & family. Your dutiful son
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Alexander Hamilton, [ca. 2 July] 1788
From: Hamilton, Alexander
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir[ca. 2 July 1788]
Your letter of the 20h. came to hand two days since. I regret that your prospects were not yet reduced to greater certainty. There is more and more reason to believe that our conduct will be influenced by yours.
Our discussions have not yet travelled beyond the power of taxation. To day we shall probably quit this ground to pass to another. Our arguments confound, but do not convince. Some of the leaders however appear to me to be convinced by circumstances and to be desirous of a retreat. This does not apply to the Chief, who wishes to establish Clintonism on the basis of Antifœderalism. I remain Affecty Yrs
A Hamilton


Title: From James Madison to James Maury, 3 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Maury, James

Letter not found. 3 July 1788. Acknowledged in Maury to JM, 24 Feb. 1789. Encloses The Federalist and reports on political affairs.


Title: To James Madison from Philip Mazzei, 4 July 1788
From: Mazzei, Philip
To: Madison, James

Carmo: Amico,Parigi, 4 Luglio 1788.
Da qualche tempo in qua le mie lettere possono avervi annoiato, tanto per la for frequenza che per il lor contenuto. Io però non posso dispensarmi dal continovare ad incomodarvi. Quando il bisogno è tale, non si può resistere; lo sprone è troppo acuto. Degnatevi, Amico, di dare sfogo all’incluse, e se il tempo ve lo permette, aggiungete le vostre preghiere alle mie, presso Edmond Randolph e Mr. Blair, affinchè veglino ai miei affari, me ne dieno un ragguaglio, e mi mandino qualche soccorso. Favoritemi voi l’istesso, riguardo all’affare con Dohrman. Gradirei qualche ragguaglio dei libri speditivi, del loro incontro, e delle apparenze del loro esito, e se avete giudicato proprio di render pubbliche le mie osservazioni sulla proposta costituzion federativa. Siccome l’amico Jefferson vi ragguaglia di tutto ciò che può interessarvi, e la mia situazione confina i miei pensieri al proprio bisogno, terminerò per non seccarvi a morte, pregandovi di non abbandonarmi; addio. Vostro sincero Amico e Servo
Filippo Mazzei

Condensed Translation
Mazzei requests JM’s assistance in settling his affairs. He is anxious for news concerning the reception of his book in America, and also wishes to know if JM has made public Mazzei’s observations on the proposed Constitution.


Title: From James Madison to Edmund Randolph, 16 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Randolph, Edmund

My dear friendN. York July 16. 88
The inclosed papers will give you the latest intelligence from Poughkepsie. It seems by no means certain what the result there will be. Some of the most sanguine calculate on a ratification. The best informed apprehend some clog that will amount to a condition. The question is made peculiarly interesting in this place, by its connexion with the question relative to the place to be recommended for the meeting of the first Congress under the new Government.
13 States are at present represented. A plan for setting this new Machine in motion has been reported some days, but will not be hurried to a conclusion. Having been but a little time here, I am not yet fully in the politics of Congress. I had on the road several returns of a bilious lax which made my journey more tedious & less agreeable than it would otherwise have been. At present I am pretty well again. Hoping this will find you & yours more compleatly so, I remain Yr. Affete friend
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 21 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Dear SirN. York July 21. 1788.
I have deferred writing since my arrival here in the hourly hope of being enabled to communicate the final news from Poughkepsie. By a letter from Hamilton dated the day before yesterday I find that it is equally uncertain when the business will be closed, and what will be its definitive form. The inclosed gazettes state the form which the depending proposition bears. It is not a little strange that the Antifederal party should be reduced to such an expedient, and yet be able to keep their members together in the opposition. Nor is it less strange that the other party, as appears to be the case, should hesitate in deciding that the expedient as effectually keeps the State for the present out of the New Union as the most unqualified rejection could do. The intelligent Citizens here see clearly that this would be its operation and are agitated by the double motives of fœderalism, and a zeal to give this City a fair chance for the first meeting of the new Government.
Congress have deliberated in part on the arrangements for putting the new Machine into operation, but have concluded on nothing but the times for chusing electors &c. Those who wish to make N. York the place of meeting studiously promote delay. Others who are not swayed by this consideration do not urge despatch. They think it would be well to let as many States as possible have an opportunity of deciding on the Constitution: and what is of more consequence, they wish to give opportunities where they can take place for as many elections of State Legislatures as can precede a reasonable time for making the appointments and arrangements referred to them. If there be too great an interval between the acts of Congress on this Subject and the next election or next meeting of a State Legislature, it may afford a pretext for an intermediate summoning of the existing members, who are every where less federal than their successors hereafter to be elected will probably be. This is particularly the case in Maryland, where the antifederal temper of the Executive would render an intermediate and extraordinary meeting of the Assembly of that State the more likely to be called. On my way thro’ Maryland I found such an event to be much feared by the friends and wished by the adversaries of the Constitution. We have no late news from Europe. Nor any thing from N. Carolina. With every sentiment of esteem & attachment I remain Dr. Sir Your Obedt. & Affete. servt.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to Edmund Randolph, 22 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Randolph, Edmund

My Dear SirNew York July 22. [1788]
The inclosed papers will give you a view of the business in the Convention at Poughkepsie. It is not as yet certain that the ratification will take any final shape that can make New York immediately a member of the new Union. The opponents can not come to that point without yielding a compleat victory to the federalists, which must be a severe sacrifice of their pride. It is supposed too that some of them, would not be displeased at seeing a bar to the pretensions of this City to the first meeting of the New Government. On the other side, the zeal for an unconditional ratification is not a little increased by contrary wishes.
There have been no late arrivals from Europe: nor any news from any other Quarter.
Don’t omit sending me the papers containing the series of letters announced in a late one. Yr. Affecte friend
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Alexander Hamilton, 22 July 1788
From: Hamilton, Alexander
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir,July 22d. 1788
I wrote to you by the last post since which nothing material has turned up here. We are debating on amendments without having decided what is to be done with them. There is so great a diversity in the views of our opponents that it is impossible to predict any thing. Upon the whole however our fears diminish. Yrs Affecty
A Hamilton
I take the liberty for certain reasons to put the inclosed under cover to you. Be so good as to send it to my office to the care of Mr. De Haert will it will be called for.


Title: To James Madison from Moustier, 22 July 1788
From: Moustier
To: Madison, James

Editorial Note
The case of Joseph Marie Anne Ferrier, a French ship captain accused of maritime barratry, is the subject of four documents printed in this volume (Moustier to JM, 22 July 1788; Virginia Delegates to Randolph, 25 July 1788, and enclosure; Randolph to Virginia Delegates, 2 Aug. 1788 [first letter]; and Jones to JM, 3 Aug. 1788). Martin Oster, French consul at Norfolk, had imprisoned Ferrier on a French ship in the summer of 1787 and charged him with fraudulently selling his cargo. Ferrier was subsequently removed from Oster’s custody by the local sheriff, who arrested him on the complaint of a creditor. After posting bail to appear at the county court in this civil action, Ferrier obtained his freedom. Oster thereupon applied to Governor Randolph for aid in apprehending Ferrier and his accomplices in order to send them to France for trial. On the advice of the Council of State, Randolph informed Oster that he had no authority to meet his request.
The matter came before Congress in May 1788, when French minister Moustier sent a note to Secretary Jay demanding that Ferrier be delivered up to the French consul. On 13 June, Congress passed a resolution directing Jay to transmit Moustier’s note to Governor Randolph and declaring that it was “the sense of Congress that … Ferrier ought to be apprehended in order to be dealt with according to the nature of the case.” Randolph replied to Jay on 2 July and reiterated his opinion that “the relief sought by Mr. Oster was far beyond the scope” of the executive power of Virginia. Meanwhile Moustier conferred privately with the Virginia delegates in Congress, urging them to communicate to their state officials the serious consequences if this demand was ignored. The delegates enclosed a record of this conversation in their letter to Randolph of 25 July. Randolph responded on 2 August by enclosing a copy of his letter to Jay of 2 July. The governor subsequently turned the matter over to the General Assembly. Although Moustier and Jay discussed the subject again, neither Congress nor the Virginia legislature took any further action on Moustier’s note after the fall of 1788. (The pertinent documents on the Ferrier case are printed in Diplomatic Correspondence of the U.S., I, 253–73.)
The Ferrier controversy was one of a series of incidents involving a clash of state and consular authority during the 1780s. The treaty of 1778 between France and the United States had stipulated that consular functions and powers were to be defined in a separate agreement. Ratification of a consular convention was delayed for ten years, however, owing to American reluctance. Franklin and Vergennes had signed a convention in 1784, but Congress (on the advice of Secretary Jay) had withheld ratification. Nevertheless, Moustier regarded the convention of 1784 as operative. At the time the Ferrier case was before Congress, a new consular agreement was in the final stages of negotiation at Paris. It was signed by Jefferson and Montmorin in November 1788 and ratified by the Senate the following summer (Boyd, Papers of JeffersonJulian P. Boyd et al., eds., The Papers of
          Thomas Jefferson (19 vols. to date; Princeton, 1950—)., XIV, 66–180).

July the 22d. [1788]
It has appeared to Count de Moustier upon the reading of the fifth chapter book IV Vol. IV. of Blakstone’s Commentaries that Mr. Maddison might find there some satisfactory explanation about the question put: “which would be the proceeding of English Government in a case similar to that of Ferrier?” The less favourable induction would be that such an offender would certainly not have escaped punishment. The question would have been reduced to Know whether that offender should have been punished according to the laws of England, or whether he should have been delivered to a public officer of the K[ing o]f France to be sent by him to his native country to take there his trial. But as the English Lawyer observes that the rules upon which the States act result from those principles of natural justice, in which all the learned of every nation agree: or they depend upon mutual compacts or treaties between the respective communities, so since such treaty and a compact of such purport exist between the King of France and the United States, there seems no way for a proper excuse to the proceeding by which Ferrier was screen’d from justice for a heinous crime under the frivolous pretence of answering to justice for a doubtful debt.


Title: To James Madison from Tench Coxe, 23 July 1788
From: Coxe, Tench
To: Madison, James

Dear SirPhilada. July 23d. 1788
Since you left Philadelphia I have kept my attention awake to the conduct of the most able—as well as the most active members of the late opposition. I find those who were excessively violent, active & unreserved in their opposition are perfectly silent. Their conduct carries more of ceasing to oppose, than of acquiescence. But some of the most sensible, cautious and artful characters express a disposition to acquiesce in the execution of the Government, and at the same bring forward the Idea of Amendments. Among them is constantly the resumption of the power of direct taxation. This seems to be the point most dear to the opposition here, and no other is much felt. They sometimes wish the house of representatives larger, & some few press it a good deal. I see no objection to it at present, except the encrease of expence, tho I have never considered it. The government would certainly be more popular, on every other account than the expence, if the Representatives were more numerous.
The argument urged here against direct taxation by the federal legislature is that no uniform mode can be devised that will be found practicable, & that, if the mode is not uniform, it will be considered as partial. In other places it has been opposed because it will reduce the importance of the state governments. The latter, I believe, is the principal reason here tho covered & kept out of sight by putting the other forward. An Argument in favor of direct taxation being left with Congress, of some weight & of a very popular complexion, is that the federal house (the great check belonging to the people at large) is constituted upon more equal & truely republican principles than the greater part of the most numerous houses of state legislature. In analyzing the federal & state legislatures a few evenings past to see which of them upon a jealous popular inspection would best stand the touchstone of the peoples feelings & of reason, I find but one point or degree in which the federal house deviates from an equal distribution of power & votes among the people at large, & that is in the slave states, where 3/5 of persons not free are thrown in to fix the Number of Representatives. In the state Governments there are several instances of Counties or districts of the smallest size sending the same number of senators as counties & districts of twice the size, and of counties of the smallest size sending the same Number of Reps. as counties of three, four & five times their size. Instead of size I should have said population. This argument I have introduced in the enclosed paper which was written to soothe some remaining discontents in one or two of our western Counties that have been very grossly deceived. If it will be of any service in the less enlightened parts of New York, it might be of use to republish it.
I forgot to ask you, if you had time to make any enquiries or observation upon the subject of cotton planting in Virginia. I have seen a letter of Genl. Pinckneys, in which he mentions that he & Mr. E. Rutledge have put in 25 Acres on a farm they own, and that Genl. Moultrie has put in 50. Acres. He adds, that they have planted all the seed they could procure in the different parishes, that were fit for that cultivation.
I am extremely anxious (not so much as a Philadelphian) about the first place of meeting of the New Government. Tis a Subject on which I would not wish to draw you out, as you are situated. Satisfied as I am that the execution of the Government, the means of information & our national Consequence in Europe would be benefited by coming here, I wish it upon the clearest Conviction that it would be for the good of our Country. I wish it too from another circumstance, that it would place me within the reach of one whose acquaintance, and if circumstances or experience should justify it, whose friendship would be to me one of the most grateful Circumstances that could take place. I am, dear Sir, with great truth your mo. respectf. h. Servt.
Tench Coxe


Title: Virginia Delegates to Edmund Randolph, 25 July 1788
From: Virginia Delegates
To: Randolph, Edmund

Sir,New York July 25. 1788
We do ourselves the honor to inclose to your Excellency a paper which was put into our hands a few days ago by the Minister of France at a conference he had with us at his own request upon the case of Capt. Ferrier, the subject of a late Resolution of Congress.

Your Excellency must have observed from that Resolution that Congress was careful to avoid a decision as to the Authority to which Capt. Ferrier might be amenable, having gone no further than to determine that he ought to be apprehended.
The Minister Mentions the Consular Convention entered into in the year 1784 by Doctor Franklin & the Count Vergennes, as being considered a Valid Act by the King of France; it is therefore proper for us to inform your Excellency that it has not been Ratified by Congress: the Ratification has been delayed on account of some objectionable points, upon which Mr. Jefferson is now charged with negotiations. The business is, however, in a delicate situation, and it is the wish of Congress that the affair of Capt. Ferrier may be so treated as to produce no discussion that can possibly be avoided. We have the Honor to be, with the greatest respect your Excellencies Mo. Obt. Servts.
Js. Madison Jr.
Ed: Carrington
Cyrus Griffin

[Enclosure]
Précis d’une Conversation de M. le Cte. de Moustier avec Messrs. les Delegués de l’Etat de Virginie.

L’Etat de Virginie est un de ceux de l’Union Americaine, qui a les plus Brands raports avec la France. Les faveurs, que le Roi a accordées au Commerce des Etats unis avec le Royaume, se sont etendues particulierement sur la Virginie. Independamment des motifs que cet Etat a en commun avec ses Co-Etats de temoigner des sentimens d’attachement et de reconnoissance qu’il est de leur interêt et de leur gloire de prouver, le Roi doit s’attendre à des egards particuliers de la part de la Virginie. Cependant c’est dans cet Etat que le premier Magistrat a authorisé une action, qui viole directement le droit des gens et qui enfreint de la maniere la plus marquée un engagement, qui doit être regardé comme sacré, dès que l’acte signé par les Plenipotentiaires respectifs en 1784. n’a point été desavoué par le Congrès et que tous les articles de cet acte ont été et sont ponctuellement executés dans les ports du Royaume. L’établissement des Consuls est une clause absolue du Traité de Commerce, conclu entre le Roi et les Etats unis en 1778. Si le Roi n’avoit pas pu entretenir dans les ports Americains des Officiers chargés de la jurisdiction sur les sujets de S. M., qui viennent y naviguer et authorisés à reclamer le secours et l’intervention des Magistrats Americains dans tous les cas où ils seroient nécéssaires pour la sureté et la protection des Commerçans François, qui envoyent leurs navires dans les ports des Etats unis, il auroit fallu renoncer de la part des François à frequenter ces ports et la consequence de l’impossibilité d’entretenir quelque communication avec les Etats unis seroit un relachement graduel des liens qui unissent les deux nations et que les Magistrats de Virginie sont sans doute bien eloignés de vouloir affoiblir. Il en couteroit beaucoup à S. M. de prendre des mesures pour etablir à l’egard des Citoyens de cet Etat des principes de reciprocité qui ne sauroient être que trés prejudiciables à leur Commerce; mais la protection qu’elle doit à ses sujets et la dignité de sa couronne lui en feroient une loi.
Le crime commis par le Cape. Ferrier est d’une nature si revoltante, que quand même il n’existeroit aucun traité entre le Roi et les Etats unis l’honneur de l’Etat de Virginie auroit exigé que les Magistrats de cet Etat se fussent saisis d’un criminel coupable envers toutes les nations et qui ne pourroit trouver d’azyle que chés des pirates ou des ennemis declarés de la France. Combien ne doit on pas être etonné d’aprendre que sous le pretexte le plus frivole on a soustroit ce criminel à la disposition de son Souverain, à qui il alloit être renvoyé par l’Officier de ce Souverain reconnu comme tel, dont les fonctions speciales sont de veiller à l’exacte observation des lois, dont les sujets ne peuvent être affranchis sous aucun pretexte quelconque, puisqu’en les violant ils sont rebelles à leurs Souverains, violateurs de leurs engagemens et dans les cas pareils à ceux du Cape. Ferrier criminels aux yeux de toutes les nations.
Le Roi a lieu de s’attendre non seulement à ce que le susdit Ferrier soit remis sans delai à la disposition du Vice Consul de S. M. mais encore à ce qu’il soit donné de la part du Gouvernement de Virginie tels eclaircissemens que puissent excuser la conduite du Gouverneur et que le Sheriff, qui a osé enlever Ferrier de la prison où il etoit detenu soit puni d’une maniere exemplaire.
M. le Cte. de Moustier s’est conformé aux ordres de S. M. en demandant au nom du Roi l’intervention du Congrès afin que le Cape. Ferrier soit remis à la disposition du Consul. Le Roi s’est flatté que sa demande ne sera pas infructeuse et qu’il eprouvera dans cette occasion un empressement analogue aux liens qui subsistent entre S. M. et les Etats unis.
M. le Cte. de Moustier a communiqué un Memoire à ce sujet au Congrès dès le 28. Mai der. Si l’empressement de l’Etat de Virginie doit conformer a l’attente du Roi, la reponse à ce Memoire devroit deja lui être parvenue. Il desire que Messrs. les Delegués de la Virginie expriment à leur Etat les consequences de l’affaire qu’il a denoncée et qu’ils puissent le convaincre qu’elle est d’une nature à avoir les suites les plus graves tant qu’il ne sera point donné à S. M. la satisfaction à laquelle elle s’est attendu.

Condensed Translation
The governor of Virginia has authorized an action that directly violates the law of nations and infringes an obligation that should be regarded as sacred, since the act signed by the respective plenipotentiaries in 1784 has not been repudiated by Congress. All the articles of this act have been and are being punctually executed in French ports. Ferrier’s crime is of such magnitude that even if no treaty existed between France and the United States, the honor of Virginia would require that the magistrates of this state apprehend a criminal who could find asylum only with pirates or the declared enemies of France. The king has grounds to expect not only that Ferrier be returned without delay to the disposition of the vice consul but also that the Virginia government will provide him with such explanations as to excuse the conduct of the governor and the sheriff who dared to remove Ferrier from prison. Moustier wishes the Virginia delegates would convince their state officials that this affair could have the gravest consequences if the king is not given the satisfaction he expects.


Title: To James Madison from James Mchenry, 26 July 1788
From: McHenry, James
To: Madison, James

Dear SirBaltimore 26 July 1788.
I am just returned from the Eastern shore of this state. I have been in every County save one, and find a laudable determination in each to make a choice of federal representatives for our ensuing assembly. I hope the time for commencing proceedings under the new Congress will favor this intention.
If you have any data by which one may judge of the views or plan of the Antifederalists I beg you to communicate them. I consider Mr. P. Henry’s declaration as the basis of the new opposition and wish you to state it to me in his own words. Some men of influence in this place entertain an opinion that the distinction of fed. and antifed. should be done away, which should it gain ground will ensure Mr Chase his election. A letter [from] an authority, will have great weight on the minds of such persons. I hope you will be able to write me on this subject and to give me their plan with such evidences as may have come to your knowlege. The sooner the better. Adieu. Yours sincerely
James McHenry


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 27 July 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friendRichmond July 27. 1788
I have just risen from a violent bilious attack, which has vexed me for nearly a fortnight past. But as I am a victim at present to weakness only, I am indulged in the liberty of acknowledging the receipt of your favor of the 16th. instant.
We hear nothing of the constitution on this side of the river. On the other indeed the discontents are said to be loud; but it does not appear that any of the opponents, who were of the convention, are active by word or deed in fomenting them. Nay it has been reported, (but I cannot answer for the authority) that the members from Amherst have recommended a patient trial.
A severe storm of wind and rain from the North East on Wednesday evening last has laid the corn prostrate and shattered the tobacco, from the seacoast to the Bird Ordinary in Louisa. What its breadth was, we have not yet learnt. Indeed the particulars are by no means ascertained; except that a higher tide, than that, which was raised by the wind, has never been known.
Not a syllable has transpired from the North Carolina convention.
I have accommodated with Mr. Wythe the supplies for Mr. Peter Carr, and have notified the latter of what I have done.
Can you send me the additional Numbers of Publius since the Second volume?
I have received a letter from Colo. Mercer, saying that some circumstances, which had taken place in Maryland made it necessary that he should recover all the letters, which he had written to Va. concerning the constitution. But what the circumstances are, he leaves to conjecture.
The act of congress as to Kentucky is viewed with suspicion here; and in truth countenances a fear, that her admission may be unnecessarily delayed. Adieu my dear friend, and believe [me] to be unalterably Yr. affte
E. R.


Title: From James Madison to John Page, 27 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Page, John

Letter not found. 27 July 1788. Acknowledged in Page to JM, 6 Aug. 1788. Encloses New York newspapers containing news of that state’s ratification of the Constitution.


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 27 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Letter not found. 27 July 1788. Acknowledged in Washington to JM, 3 Aug. 1788. Reports ratification of the Constitution by the New York convention.


Title: From James Madison to Tench Coxe, 30 July 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Coxe, Tench

Dear SirN. York July 30. 1788
I have been much obliged by your favor of the 23 instant, which I have delayed to answer, in the daily prospect of being able to include the decision of Congress on the place for the first meeting of the New Government. This point continues however unfixt. Perhaps it may be brought to an issue to day. From the result of the first question taken on it, the pretensions of Philada. bade fair for success; and it is very possible may in the end obtain it. Some circumstances which have intervened with the vicisitudes to which such a question in such an Assembly as Congress are liable, are notwithstanding very proper grounds for doubtful if not adverse calculations.
The observations addressed to your Western inhabitants are in my opinion as well timed as they are judicious. They will be republished here. The conspiracy agst. direct taxes is more extensive & formidable than some gentlemen suspect. It is clearly seen by the enemies to the Constitution that an abolition of that power will re-establish the supremacy of the State Legislatures, the real object of all their zeal in opposing the system.
From the few enquiries I had an opportunity of making on the subject of Cotton, I found that it enters as far into the culture of the present year in Virginia, as seed could be got for the purpose. I communicated your observations to a friend who patronizes with fervor every plan of public utility, and who will give all the effect he can to your ideas.
The very friendly & flattering sentiments with which your letter concludes lay me under fresh obligations to subscribe myself with great sincerity and respect, your obedient friend & servt.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Jefferson, 31 July 1788
From: Jefferson, Thomas
To: Madison, James

Dear SirParis July 31. 1788.
My last letters to you were of the 3d & 25. of May. Yours from Orange, of Apr. 22. came to hand on the 10th. inst.
My letter to mr. Jay containing all the public news that is well authenticated, I will not repeat it here, but add some details in the smaller way which you may be glad to know. The disgrace of the Marquis de la Fayette which at any other period of their history would have had the worst consequences for him will on the contrary mark him favourably to the nation at present. During the present administration he can expect nothing, but perhaps it may serve him with their successors whenever a change shall take place. No change of the principal will probably take place before the meeting of the States general. Tho a change is to be wished for his operations do not answer the expectations formed of him. These had been calculated on his brilliancy in society. He is very feebly aided too. Montmorin is weak tho a most worthy character. He is indolent and inattentive too in the extreme. Luzerne is considerably inferior in abilities to his brother whom you know. He is a good man too but so much out of his element that he has the air of one huskanoyed. The garde des sceaux is considered as the principal’s bull dog braving danger like that animal. His talents do not pass mediocrity. The archbishop’s brother and the new minister Vildeuil and Lambert have no will of their own. They can’t raise money for the peace establishment the next year without the states general much less if there be war and their administration will probably end with the states general. Littlepage who was here as a secret agent for the king of Poland rather overreached himself. He wanted more money. The king furnished it more than once. Still he wanted more, and thought to obtain a high bid by saying he was called for in America and asking leave to go there. Contrary to his expectation he received leave: but he went to Warsaw instead of America and from thence to join the Russian army. I do not know these facts certainly, but collect them by putting several things together. The king then sent an antient secretary here, in whom he had much confidence, to look out for a correspondent a mere letter writer for him. A happy hazard threw Mazzei in his way. He recommended him, and he is appointed. He has no diplomatic character whatever, but is to receive eight thousand livres a year as an intelligencer. I hope this employment may have some permanence. The danger is that he will over-act his part.
The Marquis de la Luzerne had been for many years married to his brother’s wifes sister secretly. She was ugly, and deformed, but sensible, amiable, and rather rich. When he was named ambassador to London with 10000. guineas a year the marriage was avowed, and he relinquished his cross of Malta from which he derived a handsome revenue, for life, and very open to advancement. She staid here, and not long after died. His real affection for her which was great & unfeigned and perhaps the loss of his order for so short-lived a satisfaction has thrown him almost into a state of despondency. He is now here.
I send you a book of Dupont’s on the subject of the commercial treaty with England. Tho’ it’s general matter may not be interesting, yet you will pick up in various parts of it such excellent principles and observations as will richly repay the trouble of reading it. I send you also two little pamphlets of the Marquis de Condorcet, wherein is the most judicious statement I have seen of the great questions which agitate this nation at present. The new regulations present a preponderance of good over their evil. But they suppose that the king can model the constitution at will, or in other words that this government is a pure despotism: the question then arising is whether a pure despotism, in a single head, or one which is divided among a king, nobles, priesthood, & numerous magistracy is the least bad. I should be puzzled to decide: but I hope they will have neither, and that they are advancing to a limited, moderate government, in which the people will have a good share.
I sincerely rejoice at the acceptance of our new constitution by nine states. It is a good canvas, on which some strokes only want retouching. What these are, I think are sufficiently manifested by the general voice from North to South, which calls for a bill of rights. It seems pretty generally understood that this should go to Juries, Habeas corpus, Standing armies, Printing, Religion & Monopolies. I conceive there may be difficulty in finding general modifications of these suited to the habits of all the states. But if such cannot be found then it is better to establish trials by Jury, the right of Habeas corpus, freedom of the press & freedom of religion in all cases, and to abolish standing armies in time of peace, and Monopolies, in all cases, than not to do it in any. The few cases wherein these things may do evil, cannot be weighed against the multitude wherein the want of them will do evil. In disputes between a foreigner & a native, a trial by jury may be improper. But if this exception cannot be agreed to, the remedy will be to model the jury by giving the medietas linguae in civil as well as criminal cases. Why suspend the Hab. corp. in insurrections & rebellions? The parties who may be arrested may be charged instantly with a well defined crime. Of course the judge will remand them. If the publick safety requires that the government should have a man imprisoned on less probable testimony in those than in other emergencies; let him be taken & tried, retaken & retried, while the necessity continues, only giving him redress against the government for damages. Examine the history of England: see how few of the cases of the suspension of the Habeas corpus law have been worthy of that suspension. They have been either real treasons wherein the parties might as well have been charged at once, or sham-plots where it was shameful they should ever have been suspected. Yet for the few cases wherein the suspension of the hab. corp. has done real good, that operation is now become habitual, & the minds of the nation almost prepared to live under it’s constant suspension. A declaration that the federal government will never restrain the presses from printing any thing they please, will not take away the liability of the printers for false facts printed. The declaration that religious faith shall be unpunished, does not give impunity to criminal acts dictated by religious error. The saying there shall be no monopolies lessens the incitements to ingenuity, which is spurred on by the hope of a monopoly for a limited time, as of 14. years; but the benefit even of limited monopolies is too doubtful to be opposed to that of their general suppression. If no check can be found to keep the number of standing troops within safe bounds, while they are tolerated as far as necessary, abandon them altogether, discipline well the militia, & guard the magazines with them. More than magazine-guards will be useless if few, & dangerous if many. No European nation can ever send against us such a regular army as we need fear, & it is hard if our militia are not equal to those of Canada or Florida. My idea then is, that tho’ proper exceptions to these general rules are desireable & probably practicable, yet if the exceptions cannot be agreed on, the establishment of the rules in all cases will do ill in very few. I hope therefore a bill of rights will be formed to guard the people against the federal government, as they are already guarded against their state governments in most instances.
The abandoning the principle of necessary rotation in the Senate, has I see been disapproved by many; in the case of the President, by none. I readily therefore suppose my opinion wrong, when opposed by the majority as in the former instance, & the totality as in the latter. In this however I should have done it with more complete satisfaction, had we all judged from the same position.
Sollicitations, which cannot be directly refused, oblige me to trouble you often with letters recommending & introducing to you persons who go from hence to America. I will beg the favour of you to distinguish the letters wherein I appeal to recommendations from other persons, from those which I write on my own knowlege. In the former it is never my intention to compromit myself, nor you. In both instances I must beg you to ascribe the trouble I give you to circumstances which do not leave me at liberty to decline it. I am with very sincere esteem Dear Sir Your affectionate friend & servt
Th: Jefferson


Title: From James Madison to Edmund Randolph, 2 July [August] 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Randolph, Edmund

My dear friendN. York July [August] 2d. 1788
Some of the letters herewith inclosed have been here for some time without my knowing it. The others came to hand yesterday. I have also in hand for you the Marquis Condorcet’s essai on the probability of decisions resulting from plurality of voices, which I understand from Mazzei is a gift from the Author. I shall forward it by the first conveyance.
There are public letters just arrived from Jefferson. The contents are not yet known. His private letters to me & others refer to his public for political news. I find that he is becoming more & more a friend to the new Constitution, his objections being gradually dispelled by his own further reflections on the subject. He particularly renounces his opinion concerning the expediency of a ratification by 9 and a refusal by 4 States, considering the mode pursued by Massts. as the only rational one, but disapproving some of the alterations recommended by that State. He will see still more room for disapprobation in the recommendations of other States. The defects of the Constitution which he continues to criticise are the omission of a bill of rights, and of the principle of rotation at least in the Ex. Departmt.
Congress have been some days on the question where the first meeting of the New Congs. shall be placed. Philada. failed by a single voice from Delaware which ultimately aimed at that place, but wished to bring Wilmington into view. In that vote N. Hampshire & Connecticut both concurred. N. York is now in nomination and if those States accede which I think probable, and Rhode Island which has as yet refused to sit in the Question can be prevailed on to vote which I also think probable, the point will be carried. In this event a great handle I fear will be given to those who have opposed the new Govt. on account of the Eastern preponderancy in the fœderal system. Yrs. Affely.
Js. Madison Jr
I inclose a copy of the ratification of N. York. What think you of some of the expository articles?


Title: Edmund Randolph to Virginia Delegates, 2 August 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Virginia Delegates

Gentlemen,Richmond August 2d. 1788
One Archibald Carrol, who was yesterday executed for murder, sent for our Acceptance the books, which will accompany this letter. We have been informed by report, that they were obtained by him, while acting as a British Sea officer, and that he perfidiously communicated them to the Americans during the War. We feel a repugnance to deposit them in the Archives of the Executive; the books, if genuine, having been put into our hands in time of peace, without authority.
We doubt, whether they be now of any consequence: and therefore request you to offer them or not to the British consul, or the secretary for foreign affairs as you may think best. I have the honor gentlemen to be with sincere respect yr. mo. ob. serv.
Edm: Randolph.


Title: To James Madison from George Washington, 3 August 1788
From: Washington, George
To: Madison, James

My dear Sir,Mount Vernon Augt. 3d. 1788.
Your favors of the 21st. & 27th of last month came duly to hand. The last, contained the pleasing—and I may add (tho’ I could not reconcile it with any ideas I entertained of common policy) unexpected account of the unconditional ratification of the Constitution by the State of New York. That No. Carolina will hesitate long in its choice I can scarcely believe; but what Rhode Island will do is more difficult to say, though not worth a conjecture; as the conduct of the majority there, has, hitherto, baffled all calculation.
The place proper for the New Congress to meet at, will unquestionably, undergo (if it has not already done it) much investigation; but there are certain things which are so self evident in their nature as to speak for themselves—this, possibly, may be one—where the true point lays I will not undertake to decide, but there can be no hesitation I conceive in pronouncing one thing, that in all Societies, if the bond or cement is strong and interesting enough to hold the body together, the several parts should submit to the inconveniencies for the benefits which they derive from the conveniencies of the compact.
We have nothing in these parts worth communicating. Towards New York we look for whatever is interesting, until the States begin to act under the New form, which will be an important epocha in the annals of this Country. With sentiments of sincere friendship and affection I am—Yours
Go: Washington


Title: From James Madison to James Mchenry, ca. 5 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: McHenry, James

Letter not found. Ca. 5 August 1788. Acknowledged in McHenry to JM, 14 Aug. 1788. Replies to McHenry’s request in his letter of 26 July 1788 for information concerning the political strategy of the Antifederalists.


Title: To James Madison from John Page, 6 August 1788
From: Page, John
To: Madison, James

My Dear SirWmsbg. Augt. 6th. 1788
Yours of the 27th. Ulto. inclosing the New York Papers, with the joyfull News of the Ratification of the Plan of the fœderal Constitution has just come to Hand. I return you many Thanks for communicating to me so early, an Authentic Account of that important & glorious Event. I heartily congratulate you on the brightening Prospect of our Affairs, & the Success of your Wishes & patriotic Labours—they are crowned with Success, & to your immortal Honor; for it is to you, we are indebted for the Part Virginia took in this great Affair & we see her Influence in the other States. I confess I have always attributed to you the Glory of laying the Foundation of this great Fabric of government; of supporting the Plan of it in Convention & of animating all the States to cooperate in the great Work. I write in such Haste that I can only add that I am my dear Sr. with the highest Respect & Esteem your Friend & most obedt. Servt.
John Page


Title: From James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, 10 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Jefferson, Thomas

Dear SirNew York Augst. 10. 1788
Mr Warville has just arrived here, and I seize an opportunity suddenly brought to my knowledge to thank you for your several favors, and particularly for the pedomiter. Answers to the letters must be put off for the next opportunity.

My last went off just as a vote was taken in the Convention of this State which foretold the ratification of the new Government. The latter act soon followed and is inclosed. The form of it is remarkable. I inclose also a circular address to the other States on the subject of amendments, from which mischeifs are apprehended. The great danger in the present crisis is that if another Convention should be soon assembled, it would terminate in discord, or in alterations of the federal system which would throw back essential powers into the State Legislatures. The delay of a few years will assuage the jealousies which have been artificially created by designing men and will at the same time point out the faults which really call for amendment. At present the public mind is neither sufficiently cool nor sufficiently informed for so delicate an operation.
The Convention of North Carolina met on the 21st. Ult. Not a word has yet been heard from its deliberations. Rhode Island has not resumed the subject since it was referred to & rejected by the people in their several Towns.
Congress have been employed for several weeks on the arrangements of times & place for bringing the new Government into agency. The first have been agreed on though not definitively, & make it pretty certain that the first meeting will be held in the third week in March. The place has been a subject of much discussion, and continues to be uncertain. Philada. as least excentric of any place capable of affording due accomodations and a respectable outset to the Government was the first proposed. The affirmative votes were N. Hampshire, Connecticut, Pena. Maryd. Virga. and N. Carolina. Delaware was present & in favor of that place, but one of its delegates wishing to have a question on Wilmington previous to a final determination, divided that State and negatived the motion. N. York came next in view, to which was opposed first Lancaster which failed, and then Baltimore which to the surprise of every body was carried by seven States, S. Carolina which had preferred N. York to the two other more Southern positions, unexpectedly concurring in this. The vote however was soon rescinded, the State of S. Carolina receding from, the Eastern States remonstrating against, and few seriously urging the eligibility of Baltimore. At present the question lies as it was originally supposed to do between N. York & Philada. and nothing can be more uncertain than the event of it. Rhode Island which alone was disposed to give the casting vote to N. York has refused to give any final vote for arranging & carrying into effect a system to which that State is opposed, and both the Delegates have returned home.
Col. Carrington tells me he has sent you the first volume of the federalist, and adds the 2d. by this conveyance. I believe I never have yet mentioned to you that publication. It was undertaken last fall by Jay Hamilton and myself. The proposal came from the two former. The execution was thrown by the sickness of Jay mostly on the two others. Though carried in concert the writers are not mutually answerable for all the ideas of each other there being seldom time for even a perusal of the pieces by any but the writer before they were wanted at the press and sometimes hardly by the writer himself.
I have not a moment for a line to Mazzei. Tell him I have recd his books & shall attempt to get them disposed of. I fear his calculations will not be fulfilled by the demand for them here in the French language. His affair with Dorhman stands as it did. Of his affair with Foster Webb, I can say nothing. I suspect it will turn out badly. Yrs. Affecly.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to George Washington, 11 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Washington, George

Dear SirNew York Augst. 11. 1788
I have been duly favored with yours of the 3d. instant. The length of the interval since my last has proceeded from a daily expectation of being able to communicate the final arrangements for introducing the new Government. The place of meeting has undergone much discussion as you conjectured and still remains to be fixed. Philada. was first named, & negatived by a voice from Delaware. N. York came forward next. Lancaster was opposed to it & failed. Baltimore was next tried and to the surprise of every one had seven votes. It was easy to see that that ground had it been free from objections was not maintainable. Accordingly the next day N. York was inserted in the place of it with the aid of the vote of Rhode Island. Rhode Island however has refused to give a final vote in the business and has actually retired from Congress. The question will now be resumed between N. York & Philada. It was much to be wished that a fit place for a respectable outset to the Govt. could be found more central than either. The former is inadmissible if any regard is to be had to the Southern or Western Country. It is so with me for another reason, that it tends to stop the final & permanent seat short of the potowmac certainly, and probably in the State of N. Jersey. I know this to be one of the views of the Advocates for N. York. The only chance the potowmac has is to get things in such a train that a coalition may take place between the Southern & Eastern States on the subject, and still more that the final seat may be undecided for two or three years, within which period the Western & S. Western population will enter more into the estimate. Wherever Congress may be, the choice if speedily made will not be sufficiently influenced by that consideration. In this point of view I am of opinion Baltimore would have been unfriendly to the true object. It would have retained Congress but a moment, so many States being North of it, and dissatisfied with it, and would have produced a coalition among those States—a precipitate election of the permanent seat & an intermediate removal to a more northern position.

You will have seen the circular letter from the Convention of this State. It has a most pestilent tendency. If an Early General Convention cannot be parried, it is seriously to be feared that the system which has resisted so many direct attacks may be at last successfully undermined by its enemies. It is now perhaps to be wished that Rho. Island may not accede till this new crisis of danger be over. Some think it would have been better if even N York had held out till the operation of the Government could have dissipated the fears which artifice had created and the attempts resulting from those fears & artifices. We hear nothing yet from N. Carolina more than comes by the way of Petersburg. With the highest respect & attachment I remain Dr Sir, Your affecte. servt.
Js. Madison Jr.


Title: Edmund Randolph to Virginia Delegates, 11 August 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Virginia Delegates

GentlemenRichmond Aug. 11. 1788
It has been the practice of the executive to grant pensions, to take effect only from Jany 1786. From the resolution of Congress of July 11. 1788, we are induced to think, that arrearages of pensions, as far back as Jany. 1782 at least, and perhaps earlier, may now be granted. This seems to be very just; but we do not choose to go immediately into the allowance of those arrearages, until we can be informed by you, whether we rightly understand the sense of congress. I have the honor gentlemen to be with great esteem & respect Yr. mo. ob. serv
Edm: Randolph.


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 13 August 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friendRichmond Aug: 13. 1788
Inclosed are the first two numbers of the Republican, according to your request.
Govr. Clinton’s letter to me for the calling of a convention is this day published by my order. It will give contentment to many, who are now dissatisfied. The problem of a new convention has many difficulties in its solution, But upon the whole, I believe the assembly of Virginia perhaps ought, and probably will concur in urging it. It is not too early; because it will only incorporate the theory of the people with the theory of the convention; & each of these theories is intitled to equal respect. I do indeed fear, that the constitution may be enervated, if some states should prevail in all their amendments; but if such be the will of America, who can withstand it? For my own part, I fear that direct taxation may be too much weakened. But I can only endeavour to avert that particular evil, and cannot persuade myself to thwart a second convention merely from the apprehension of that evil. This letter will probably carry me sooner into the assembly, than I intended. I will prepare a draught upon this subject, and forward a copy to you, as soon as I can. My object will be, (if possible) to prevent instructions from being conclusive, if any should be offered, and to leave the conventioners perfectly free.
The Marquis of Condor[c]et has sent me some strictures on the constitution. But they do not appear to me to have a better title to notice, than the levities of the Abbe Mably concerning America.
No. Carolina has rejected by a large majority. The fact may be relied on; tho’ nothing official has come to hand. Yrs. afftely.
E. R.


Title: To James Madison from James Mchenry, 14 August 1788
From: McHenry, James
To: Madison, James

Dr. SirBaltimore 14 Augt. 1788
I thank you for your last letter. Will you be kind enough to favor me with your opinion on the following question.
May a State lay a Tax upon transfers of book debts notes &c by their own citizens to citizens of another State or to foreigners?
The States have a concurrent jurisdiction over subjects of internal taxation with Congress; but Congress have the power to regulate commerce between the several States and with foreigners. Can Congress consistent with this power prevent such a tax. If they cannot the States by such a tax may obviate those fradulent or collusive transfers which are so much apprehended by those who oppose the establishment of the inferior federal courts. Favor me with your sentiments as soon as you can.


Title: To James Madison from Alexander White, 16 August 1788
From: White, Alexander
To: Madison, James

Dear SirBath 16th. August 1788
I retired to this place to obtain a little rest, but find so great a proportion of the Company came for diversion, that my Views are nearly frustrated. A rainy Day has afforded me an opportunity of giving you the trouble of opening this, the trouble of reading it will depend on yourself after observing the Signature. I have frequently been honored with your conversation from which I conceive I have profited; A sufficient reason for attempting to introduce a Correspondence. I have nothing agreeable to communicate unless it may be that the Anti Federalists in this part of the World (with two or three exceptions) profess their Satisfaction at the adoption of the New Goverment. I cannot express the pleasure I feel in viewing the fair Prospect—and if I could see our State Goverment properly fixed, and the administration of Justice placed on a good foundation I have not another political wish. I formerly opposed a change of Goverment, not because I thought the present a perfect System, but because I thought its general principles were good, and that a change would relax the Sinews of Goverment already too feeble. I am not sure I was altogether wrong—but several circumstances now concur in evincing the necessity of a change, more particularly the late conduct of our Judges—for supposing with them that the Constitution is paramont the Ordinary Legislature, it is possible, that wise and good men may differ in the construction of some parts of it—the Assembly may pass an Act which they conceive perfectly consistent with the Constitution, the Judges may determine it inconsistent. Who is to decide the Contest? If the Judges opinion is to prevail, it places them above the Law, establishes an Oligarchy, vests absolute power in 15 men who hold their places during life, and over whom the People have no controul. Much safer may it be left to the Assembly—they are the immediate representatives of the People, and should they pass an Act inconsistent with the principles of the Constitution in the opinion of the Community at large, the Members concurring in the Act would be displaced at the next election, and the evil removed in the course of a year. “But the Judiciary ought to be independent of the Legislature.” And the Legislature I presume ought to be independent of the Judiciary. By the independence of the Judges I understand their holding their Offices for life, and their exemption from Legislative punishment. It is their duty to expound the Laws and to give Judgement according to their true sense and meaning—but that they should have a right to execute or not to execute at their Will and Pleasure a clear express Statute, is I believe a novelty in Politicks, the consequences of which may not be easily foreseen. I cannot agree that our present Constitution is above the power of the Ordinary Legislature. True it was formed by great and good men, but they were not infallible neither were they chosen for the purpose of forming a permanent Constitution, much less an unalterable one. On what then is the position founded? That the great principles of Liberty should be established by a Constitution unalterable by the Ordinary Legislature I think is right, but at the same time, it appears to me absolutely necessary, that some mode should be provided for remedying the defects of such Constitution as experience may bring them to light—but I do not mean to enlarge on the subject. I only wish to know whether you think the ensuing Session will be a proper time to attempt the measure. My doubts arise from the agitated State of mens minds occasioned by the late change of Goverment, the influence of Mr Henry in the present Assembly—the small number of men of abilities who are likely to support the measure—and a doubt whether there is a Prospect of your being in the Assembly within a short period. With Sentiments of great esteem I am Dear Sir Your most Obt. Servt
Alex White


Title: From James Madison to James Madison, Sr., 18 August 1788
From: Madison, James, Sr.
To: Madison, James

Hond SirN. York Aug. 18. 88.
I have recd. your favor of the 9th. inclosing a paper from Mr. Triplet. The case is stated so imperfectly that it is impossible for me to take any step for bringing it before Congress, if that should be proper. Mr. R. Morris I am told will be here soon, and I shall endeavour then to supply the omitted circumstances. In the meantime Mr. Triplet may either make out a fuller statement & forward it, or wait till he hears from me on the subject.
I have had no opportunity of doing any thing as to Anthony, since my last. John continues to decline. I think he is in a consumption, and will not stand it very long.
No late news of consequence has come from Europe. The war appears to be going on between the two imperial Courts & the Turks. And the affairs of France portend a serious struggle between the royal authority & the spirit of liberty.
We just learn the fate of the Constitution in N. Carolina. Rho. Island is however her only associate in the opposition, and it will be hard indeed if those two States should endanger a system which has been ratified by the eleven others. Congress have not yet finally settled the arrangements for putting the new Government in operation. The place for its first meeting creates the difficulty. The Eastern States with N. York contend for this City. Most of the other States insist on a more central position.
Tell my brother Ambrose if you please that he must draw on Mr. Shepherd for the price of the Negro boy for the French Marchioness. On a second & more accurate examination of my papers I have found your loan office certificates. With affecte. regards to the family I remain Yr. dutiful son
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from John Dawson, 20 August 1788
From: Dawson, John
To: Madison, James

Dear SirFrdksbg. Augt 20. 1788
I have not been honour’d with a letter from you since your return to New York, for which I must express my disappointment, altho I am more willing to attribute it to the many engagements which you have than to any other cause—the want of something new has prevented my writing.
The rejection of the constitution by the State of N. Carolina, at this period, has been the cause of as much surprise as the decision of New York in favour of it, as we were taught to believe it woud not be adopted by the latter, without previous amendments. The plan proposd in Govr. Clintons circular Letter is much approv’d of, and not [sic] doubt, will be forwarded by the legislature of this State. We are in daily expectation of receiving the Act of congress, for setting the Goverment in motion, and are doubtful on what place they will fix for the meeting of the first Congress. A report has circulated, tho I apprehend without any foundation, that Baltimore will be the spot.
We realy have not one word worthy communicating, I therefore write now rather to draw a letter from you, than with a view of communicating any thing new, and to convince you that, I am, With much respect & esteem Your Friend & hm: Sert
J Dawson


Title: From James Madison to Edmund Randolph, 22 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Randolph, Edmund

My dear friendNew York Aug. 22. 88.
I have your favor of the 13th. The effect of Clintons circular letter in Virga. does not surprize me. It is a signal of concord & hope to the enemies of the Constitution every where, and will I fear prove extremely dangerous. Notwithstanding your remarks on the subject I cannot but think that an early convention will be an unadvised measure. It will evidently be the offspring of party & passion, and will probably for that reason alone be the parent of error and public injury. It is pretty clear that a majority of the people of the Union are in favor of the Constitution as it stands, or at least are not dissatisfied with it in that form; or if this be not the case it is at least clear that a greater proportion unite in that system than are likely to unite in any other Theory. Should radical alterations take place therefore they will not result from the deliberate sense of the people, but will be obtained by management, or extorted by menaces, and will be a real sacrifice of the public will as well as of the public good, to the views of individuals & perhaps the ambition of the State legislatures.
Congress have come to no final decision as to the place for convening the new Governt. It is unfortunately become a question now between N. & South, and notwithstanding the palpable unreasonableness of the thing, an adherence to N. York in preference to any more central position seems to grow stronger & stronger, and upon grounds which tend to keep Congress here till a permanent seat be established. In this point of view I own the business has a serious aspect, considering the injustice & oppression to the S. Western & Western parts of the Union. Yrs. Affecly.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to Thomas Jefferson, 23 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Jefferson, Thomas

Dear SirNew York Augst. 23. 1788.
My last went via England in the hands of a Swiss gentleman who had married an American lady, and was returning with her to his own country. He proposed to take Paris in his way. By that opportunity I inclosed copies of the proceedings of this State on the subject of the Constitution. North Carolina was then in Convention, and it was generally expected would in some form or other have fallen into the general stream. The event has disappointed us. It appears that a large majority has decided against the Constitution as it stands, and according to the information here received has made the alterations proposed by Virginia the conditions on which alone that State will unite with the others. Whether this be the precise state of the case I can not say. It seems at least certain that she has either rejected the Constitution, or annexed conditions precedent to her ratification. It cannot be doubted that this bold step is to be ascribed in part to the influence of the minority in Virginia which lies mostly in the Southern part of the State, and to the management of its leader. It is in part ascribed also by some to assurances transmitted from leading individuals here, that New York would set the example of rejection. The event, whatever may have been its cause, with the tendency of the circular letter from the Convention of New York, has somewhat changed the aspect of things and has given fresh hopes and exertions to those who opposed the Constitution. The object with them now will be to effect an early Convention composed of men who will essentially mutilate the system, particularly in the article of taxation, without which in my opinion the system cannot answer the purposes for which it was intended. An early Convention is in every view to be dreaded in the present temper of America. A very short period of delay would produce the double advantage of diminishing the heat and increasing the light of all parties. A trial for one year will probably suggest more real amendments than all the antecedent speculations of our most sagacious politicians.
Congress have not yet decided on the arrangements for inaugurating the new Government. The place of its first meeting continues to divide the Northern & Southern members, though with a few exceptions to this general description of the parties. The departure of Rho. Island, and the refusal of N. Carolina in consequence of the late event there to vote in the question, threatens a disagreeable issue to the business, there being now an apparent impossibility of obtaining seven States for any one place. The three Eastern States & N. York, reinforced by S. Carolina, and as yet by N. Jersey, give a plurality of votes in favor of this City. The advocates for a more central position however though less numerous, seemed very determined not to yeild to what they call a shameful partiality to one extremity of the Continent. It will be certainly of far more importance under the proposed than the present system that regard should be had to centrality whether we consider the number of members belonging to the Government, the diffusive manner in which they will be appointed, or the increased resort of individuals having business with the Legislative, Executive & Judiciary departments. If the Western Country be taken into view, as it certainly ought, the reasoning is still further corroborated. There is good ground to believe that a very jealous eye will be kept in that quarter on inattention to it and particularly when involving a seeming advantage to the eastern states which have been rendered extremely suspicious and obnoxious by the Missisipi project. There is even good ground to believe that Spain is taking advantage of this disgust in Kentucky and is actually endeavoring to seduce them from the union holding out a darling object which will never be obtained by them as part of the union. This is a fact as certain as it is important but which I hint in strict confidence and with a request that no suspicion may be excited of its being known particularly thro the channel of me. I have this moment notice that I must send off my letter instantly, or lose the conveyance. I must consequently defer further communications till another opportunity. In the meantime I am Yrs. Affely.
Js. Madison Jr.
Along with this you will receive a copy of the report you desired from Mr. Thomson, and a copy of the Federalist, a publication mentioned in my last.


Title: To James Madison from John Brown, 26 August 1788
From: Brown, John
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir,Pittsburgh August 26 1788.
I arrived here last evening much fatigued with my Journey. The Roads were much worse than usual occasioned by excessive rains, the Stages rather indifferent & I was so unfortunate as to have to travel the whole distance without any company except my Servant. I have no prospect of a passage from hence down the River in any short time shall therefore set out by land immediately after Breakfast for Wheeling where I expect to be able to procure a Boat. By late accounts from Muskingum we are informed that but few Indians are as yet collected & not many more expected—’tis generally believed in this place that the Treaty will not answer our expectations. I am informed by a man who came up by Water from Limestone a few days ago that a large body of Indians had lately crossed the River at the mouth of big Sandy. I conjecture they are gone to the assistance of the Cherokees against Sevire [sic]—or to make a stroke on Clinch or Powells Valley. Have not heard any thing from Kentucky since the Resolutions of Congress reached them. I am still undetermined what they ought to do in the Business I (in confidence) mentioned to you. I will thank you for your further observations upon that Subject—also (if your leisure will permit) for some remarks upon Jeffersons plan of Govt. denoting such alterations as would render it more applicable to the District of Kentucky. These might be of the greatest consequence to that Country & if sent by Post will certainly reach me.
My unexpected movement to Wheeling puts it out of my power to write to my friends in New York must therefore request you to make my excuse—shall write fully & frequently from Kentucky should I arrive there in safety—pray remember me to the President & Carrington to Irvine & Ried also to Mrs. Elsworth & M. Harman. I am Dear Sir with every sentiment of esteem & respect Your Mo. Hble Servt.
J: Brown
P. S. A man has this moment arrived here from Detroit who informs that Brant with about 300 Indians had gone from that place to the Miamia of the Lakes to meet & hold Council with difft. Tribes of Indians where they were to determine whether they would attend the Treaty at Muskingum. He is of opinion they will not. He further sais that allmost the whole of the Shawanees Warriers had set out, (as they said) to hunt in Kentucky.


Title: From James Madison to John Brown, 30 August 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Brown, John

Dear SirNew York Augst. 30. 1788.
The letter herewith inclosed was brought by the last mail, and I forward it for that which is to leave Philada. on wednesday next for Fort Pitt. I add some of the late gazettes from which you will gather the current intelligence; and copies of some Acts of Congress relating to matters in the Western Country. I recollect no others subsequent to your departure which deserve communication. The provision for inaugurating the New Government is still to be made; no compromise having yet taken place on the contested point, and there being not sufficient force to bring it to the issue of an effective vote. The delay is become now a serious inconveniency both as it excites the public criticism, and may affect the time of putting the new system into operation. When and how it will be terminated I am not able positively to say. The major number of States are in favor of New York in preference to any other place; the minority on the other hand will agree to any other place less remote from the central point. The former contend that the latter ought to yield to the majority; the latter that the reasonableness of their demands outweighs the plea on the other side.
It will give me pleasure at all times to hear from you, and to assure you that I am Dear Sir with very sincere esteem & regard Your Obed hble servt.
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to Joseph Jones, ca. 1 September 1788
From: Madison, James
To: Jones, Joseph

Letter not found. Ca. 1 September 1788. Acknowledged in Jones to JM, ca. 24 Sept. 1788. Reports debate in Congress on the location of the seat of the new government.


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 3 September 1788
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friendRichmond Sep: 3. 1788.
I am much obliged to you for your favor of the 25th. ulto. Being in Wmsburg., when I received it, I imparted it to our friend, the president, who espouses with warmth an early convention. I sincerely wish, that the valuable parts of the constitution may suffer no ill from the temper, with which such a body will probably assemble. But is there no danger, that, if the respect, which the large minorities at present command, should be effaced by delay, the spirit of amendment will hereafter be treated as heretical? I confess to you without reserve, that I feel great distrust of some of those, who will certainly be influential agents in the government, and whom I suspect to be capable of making a wicked use of its defects. Do not charge me with undue suspicion; but indeed the management in some stages of the convention created a disgustful apprehension of the views of some particular characters. I reverence Hamilton, because he was honest and open in his views.
Perhaps the states may not concur in any particular correction of the new theory. But if dissensions in opinion should prevent an amendment, the constitution remains as it is. If on the other hand they should be in unison as to even one amendment, it will satisfy, and bear down all malcontents.
The Indians have been outrageous on the Southern frontier. I conceive, that we shall be obliged to appoint a commissioner to attend the treaty in So. Carolina, in defiance of the confederation.
Mazzei’s book is read by some with pleasure and applause; by others, as rather preserving the good compositions of certain politicians than originating much from himself. I believe the work will sell. Yrs. mo. sincerely
E. R.