Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 30 June 1789
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friend
Wmsburg June 30. 1789.
I thank you sincerely for several letters, which my vagrant life between this place and Richmond upon business has prevented me from acknowledging in due season.
The amendments, proposed by you, are much approved by the strong fœderalists here and at the Metropolis; being considered as an anodyne to the discontented. Some others, equally affectionate to the union, but less sanguine, expect to hear at the next session of assembly, that a real melioration of the constitution was not so much intended, as a soporific draught to the restless. I believe indeed, that nothing, nay not even the abolishment of direct taxation would satisfy those, who are most clamorous. But I confess, I am still in hopes to see reported from your mouth some review of the various amendments proposed, and reasons against the fitness of such, as appeared improper for adoption.
I am now well-persuaded, that there is danger of the executive being a feebler member of the government, than I once supposed. I therefore much approve of the power of removal for which you have lately contended. But the temper of those, who boast of being democrates, does not relish the fabrication of one great man, and throw out of view, when they manifest their intemperance on this subject, the probable wickedness of faction.
At this distance from the center of deliberation, it would be rashness in the extreme to charge the arrangement of the fœderal courts with impropriety. I myself in particular, who know the discordancy of the states in judiciary matters, and the difficulty of obtaining concessions from lawyers, and especially from lawyers of different usages, cannot be hasty in dealing out censure. But you will excuse me for the following sentiments, formed without premeditation.
1. I pass by the title; tho’ judiciary courts might perhaps be converted into an expression, indicative of more accuracy and attention.
2. The number of supreme judges is too small, to make head against eleven state-judiciaries, always disposed to warfare. Nine or perhaps eleven would not transgress the limits of œconomy too far, and would give an opportunity of gratifying each state with a supreme as well as a district judge.
3. In general I see nothing improper in an even number of judges in the dernier resort. In the present case a question decided by a bare majority in a circuit court, one of which shall be the district judge, but affirmed in the supreme court, merely because the voices there are equal on each side, will excite murmur.
4. The jurisdiction is inartificially, untechnically and confusedly worded. Would it not have been sufficient to have left this point upon the constitution itself? Will the courts be bound by any definition of authority, which the constitution does not in their opinion warrant?
5. I cannot discover, what disadvantage the system would have sustained by dividing the courts into separate laws. The equitable jurisdiction at least, which has crept in, seemingly uninvited and half forgotten, would have come forth with more lustre, than it does, crammed into a corner.
6. No man is to be sued but in his own district, or where the writ shall be served. What limitation is this?
7. The minute detail ought to be consigned to the judges. Every attempt towards it must be imperfect, and being so may become a topic of ridicule to technical men. I wish this idea had been thought worthy of attention; thus the bill would have been less criticized. I wish even now, that the judges of the supreme court were first to be called upon, before a definitive step shall be taken. A temporary provision, until their report can be had, surely is not impossible.
I can speak in generals only; but I beseech you and my friend A. White, to whom I should have written but for the heat of the day, and a hope, that you will shew him this letter—not to suffer the bill to be sealed as a law in its present dress. Yrs. mo. sincerely & afftely
E. R.


Title: To James Madison from Hugh Williamson, 2 July 1789
From: Williamson, Hugh
To: Madison, James

Dear sir
Baltimore. 2nd July 1789
The Post Master at Peters burg informed me on this Day Week that a Letter in your Hand for me had but two days before that passed through his Hands. I verily believe that unless you can persuade Congress seriously to take up & agree to some such Amendmts as you have proposed North Carolina will not confederate but of this more particulars when I have the Pleasure of seeing you which I hope will be about the End of next Week.


Title: To James Madison from Joseph Jones, 3 July 1789
From: Jones, Joseph
To: Madison, James

Dr. Sr
Fredericksburg 3d. July 1789.
Yours by Mr. Hopkins with the journal inclosed has been received and the journals as you desired delivered to Mr. Randolph who requests me to return you his thanks—that of the 21t. is also come to hand. I have seen a copy of the bill establishing the judiciary and from the cursory reading I have given it the different powers and jurisdictions of the Courts would have been more clearly seen had they been taken up in several bills, each describing the province and boundary of the Court to which it particularly applied—where there is danger of clashing jurisdictions the limits should be defined as acurately as may be, and this danger will exist where there are concurrent jurisdictions—in so extensive a country as the united States every precaution, consistent with the right of appeal, should be interposed to prevent inconvenience and legal oppression.

As far as my observations extend the allowance to the V. P. is thought high—this may be owing to the want of information what reasons exist for a high allowance to that Officer acting as it is supposed he generally will do as President of the Senate. The current of opinion too seems to run in favor of 4 instead of 6 dols for the Members of both branches having heard no distinction made respecting their pay Though there may be good reasons for making the Senators a higher allowance than the representatives. The Senatorial branch hath lost some Degree of popularity by the effort for titles and establishing a distinction between the houses rather degrading to the representatives; but nothing seems to be more generally exclaimed agt. than their keeping the door shut while acting as legislators. The question respecting the removal of the heads of departments by the President is no doubt a question of importance and not being expressly provided for would seem to be necessarily incident to the Executive Office. There is great force in the observation that those who appoint should remove and had the constitution kept the 3 branches of the government really separate and distinct the difficulty wod. not have been great but the Senate partaking in some degree of all the powers made the construction more necessary on the present occasion to withhold from that body a concurrence in the removal as it tended to diminish responsibility and in great degree to render the first Majestrate a Cypher. I may be mistaken but I conceive no constructive powers should be admitted that serve more closely to unite the first Majestrate as the Executive with the Senate than are expressly prescribed by the constitution—if this is not guarded agt uniformly in the progress of the government the Senate will become all powerful. I am yr. friend & Servt
Jos: Jones.
Altho’ I am now here direct yr. letters as usual to Richmond.


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Pendleton, [3 July] 1789
From: Pendleton, Edmund
To: Madison, James

[3 July 1789]
… The question concerning the power of removing Officers was important, and twas much better to investigate it fully, tho’ at the expense of a weeks discussion, than take a wrong step in it. I concur in sentiment with the decision. The Argument that the Power of removal should follow that of Creation has weight, but is abundantly overballanced by the objection that an Executive Officer might intrench himself behind a party in the Senate, setting at defiance the Control of the President & impeachment of the House of Representatives.…


Title: From James Madison to James Madison, Sr., 5 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Madison, James, Sr.

Hond Sir
N. York July 5th. 1789.
The last letter from my brother A. left me in much anxiety for the State of my mother’s health. I have ventured to hope from the silence which has followed, that she has been on the recovery. I wish much to hear oftener from the family than I do and would set the example if other occupations, and particularly a very extensive correspondence would permit.
The business goes on still very slowly. We are in a wilderness without a single footstep to guide us. It is consequently necessary to explore the way with great labour and caution. Those who may follow will have an easier task. The bills imposing duties on imports & tonnage have at length got thro’ both Houses. The question whether a distinction should be made between Nations in Treaty and those not in Treaty, was finally settled in the negative, so that G. Britain is in fact put on the same footing with the most favored nation, altho’ she has shewn no disposition to treat with the U. States, and will probably be confirmed by such a measure in the belief, that America, even if under a United Government, would be unable to unite her counsels on this subject. The discrimination was struck out of the bills in consequence of the refusal of the Senate to agree to the bills on other terms. They urged in a Conference between Committees from the two Houses on the subject, that something more efficacious was necessary in order to counter work the restrictions of G. Britain; and that they had accordingly appointed a Come. for the purpose of devising such a plan. It is very doubtful however whether it will come to any thing, & whether a more moderate mode of shewing a determination in the new Government to vindicate our commercial interests would not have answered every purpose that can be answered at all. If any thing should be done on the plan of the Senate, it will probably consist of regulations founded on the principle of the British navigation Act; which will disable her vessels from bringing to this Country any articles not the growth or manufacture of G. B. and embarrass her W. Indies untill the trade to them shall be opened to American as it is to British Vessels. Bills for establishing the several Departments of war, finance & foreign Affairs have passed the House of Reps. and are before the Senate. The bills for collecting the Impost and regulating the Coasting trade are still before the House of Reps. but will be pushed thro’ as fast as their length & importance will permit.
The subject of amendments will not be resumed til the revenue matters are over. I hope it will then be duly attended to, and will end in such a recommendation as will satisfy moderate opponents. This however is but opinion, nothing having passed from which any conclusion can be drawn with regard to the Sentiments of the two Houses, particularly the Senate. With the most dutiful regards I am Yr. affecte. son
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to George Nicholas, 5 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Nicholas, George

Dear Sir
New York July 5th. 1789.
Your favor of May 8th. was duly handed me by Mr. Bro[wn.] I thank you for the information it contains. You are right in su[pposing] that the importance of the Western Country is not sufficiently unders[tood.] Many errors with regard to it have been corrected, but many still lurk in the minds of those who view it at so great distance and through the medium perhaps of local prejudices. I hope juster sentiments will continue to increase. Nothing can promote them more than the testimony of intelligent and respectable characters who cannot be deceived themselves and who are incapable of deceiving others. In this point of view your communications and remarks from time to time will be doubly acceptable to me, as they will add to the personal satisfaction I receive from them, the best means of impressing necessary truths on the minds of others.
No question has yet been started by which the disposition of Congress towards the Western Country or of the Senate towards the Mississippi could be determined. I am not apprehensive that any injurious designs are indulged in either branch, and would fain hope that an active policy of the right sort will prevail in both. Danger to the Mississippi cannot exist I think during the Administration of the Existing President, nor any defect of attention to the Western interests in general. How far an attainment of the several objects you point out will be possible within the time wished is more than can be yet decided. Provision will I flatter myself be made during the present Session, by which the Executive [Dep]artment will be enabled to take measures for your d[efense.…] measures with respect to Spain will not lie with the House of Representatives. It is [to] be hoped they will be taken up as soon as the way is prepared for them. I concur fully in the absolute necessity of accomodating your District with convenient access to federal Justice. The Senate have originated and are now discussing a Bill for the Judiciary Department. If the case of Kentucky should be overlooked there, it shall be properly urged on the attention of the House of Reps. It is a misfortune that the Western Country is not represented in the Senate. The speedy erection of Kentucky into a State is a desireable event in order to supply that defect as well as on other accounts.
The proceedings of Congress have been conducted hitherto with as much moderation but with less despatch than were to have been wished. The subjects of past discussion have been an Impost, a navigation act under the name of duties on tonnage, and the establishment of the Departments of Foreign affairs, War, and the Treasury. The first & second have passed into laws. The rate of duties brought forth a variety of opinions, and in a few instances, betrayed the influence of local interests. This happened most evidently in the ratio between the duty on rum & that on Molasses. A high duty on the former was a great object. A high duty on the latter which is consumed in substance as well as distilled to a great amount in the Eastern States met with persevering opposition from that quarter. The House of Reps. fixed the ratio at 12 & 6 Cents. [The other br]anch changed it to 8 and 2½. with a disallowanc[e] of the drawback on Country rum exported from the U. States. Af[ter se]veral experiments concluding with a conference, the ideas of the Senate were established. It appeared in the progress of the Bill imposing duties that the friends to the Constitution did not err in supposing it to be safe in allowing a majority to decide in such cases. The votes of the same State & same part of the Union were as much split as those of different parts; and in general the advocates for low duties were in greater proportion from the East than from the States most apprehensive of oppression from that quarter. The duties on tonnage ought to have an equal effect in suppressing Southern apprehensions. Foreign Vessels are to pay half a dollar only. This is less than would have suited the States of Maryland & Virginia, and was a sacrifice to the mistaken policy of S. Carolina and Georgia. In the passage of these bills the question was repeatedly agitated whether a higher tonnage &c should not be imposed on Nations not in Treaty than on those in Treaty. The bills passed the House of Reps. with such a discrimination agreed to on the last vote by a majority of upwards of 40 agst. 8 or 9. and as I conceive on the most obvious and solid grounds of national policy. The Senate viewed the subject in a different light and after mutual disagreements & a conference, reduced the H. of Reps. to the dilemma of giving up the discrimination or the Bill. One of the arguments used on the [par]t of the Senate during the conference, was that something more [effectu]al ought to be attempted for extorting a relaxation [in British] policy, and that a Comme. had been appointed by the Senate for the purpose of devising such a plan. I much doubt that it will come to nothing, and that room will be given for triumph to the prophets who have hitherto dissuaded that nation from regarding this as capable even under a United Government, of uniting its counsels on this subject. It is possible however that the thing make take a more favorable turn.
The Bills on the Ex: Depts. are before the Senate, having all passed the H. of Reps. They are formed on the old models, except the Treasury department, which in place of a Board substitutes a Secretary controlled by a Comptroller and other officers among whom the business is divided and who are not dependent on the head. As these officers are not during good behavior, it became a constitutional question, by whom they were to be removable. By some it was contended that they could only be removed by impeachment. This was thought inadmissible: by others that the power of removal was subject to legislative disposal; this was also disapproved by a majority—by others that the power of removal was attached to that of appointment; and therefore belonged [to] the President & Senate; to this it was said that the Senate could claim no Executive power not expressly given to it, that as they were a legislative branch they should be no farther blended in Exec[utive power] than was indispensable—that as they were [given] extensive Judicial power in [cases o]f impeachment, they [ought not] to be bound to give a previous & summary opinion on [questions that] might come before them in their Judicial capacity; that it would destroy the responsibility of the President, and by enabl[ing] the subordinate officers to entrench themselves behind a party [in] the Senate destroy the harmony & energy of the Executive [De]partment. The opinion which prevailed was that th[e Executive] power being generally vested in the President, and this not [being] particularly taken away, it remained to him, but without diminishing the power of removal by the two houses by way of impeachment.
The Bills for the collection of the duties &c. are now before the H. of Reps. They require great labour & time in the first formation & will probably go out full of inaccuracies. Time however will supply the proper corrections, and make the future work easy to our successors.
It was proposed in the beginning of the Session that the collection of revenue should be accelerated by adopting the rate of duties settled by Congs. in 1783. and by referring to the laws existing in the several States. It was concluded however by a majority that this could not well [be] done. The duties then settled were not only too low, but not [… proport]ioned to each other, and therefore likely to ope[rate unequally and the states] deprived of the power of defending themselves by colle[ction re]gulations of their own. Added to this, the State laws had been adapted to a different situation of things, were in many of the States [ex]ceedingly defective, and in some of the States no laws existed at all on the subject.
Inclosed is a copy of a proposition made on the [8th of June on] the subject of amendments. They are meant to exclude every thing that might endanger their passage thro’ Congress, or their ratification by ¾ of the States. They will be taken up as soon as the Revenue bills are passed with those for compleating the organization of the Government. With very sincere esteem & regard I am Dear Sir Yr Obedt. hble sert
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Richard Peters, 5 July 1789
From: Peters, Richard
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Belmont July 5th. 1789
It is better to be late in thanking you for your Present of Tobacco by Mr Delany than not to do it at all. You have given me the Quid but as to the pro quo you must find it in the Satisfaction you enjoy in doing civil Things. I am in the Midst of a popular Assembly of Mowers & Haymakers & my Harvest will overtake me before I am ready for it. You are in the Midst of a popular Assembly of Politicians but when your Harvest will ripen the Lord knows. You are but preparing your Seed & you take so much Pains in the cleaning of it that some will be ground to Powder & not a little blown away in the Operation. I see you have been offering Amendments to the Machine before it is known whether it wants any. After these shall be added the Ingenuity of those who wish to embarrass its Motions will find out some Things that it wants & so after making it as complicated as a Combination of Dutch Stocking Looms they will alledge it to be too intricate for Use. I was glad on one Account to observe you were not joined by these great Artists who offer Repairs before a Thing is worn, but I was mortified on the other Hand that you were in a Situation to put it in their Power to neglect you. You must not be hurt at these clodhopping Sentiments of mine for I love you so truly that I dislike your mixing with so many Parts of your Conduct that command my Approbation, any one I cannot praise. You see into what a Scrape you have brought yourself by being kind to me. Yet it is more than possible I am wrong in all this Business as you know more of the Necessity of such Accomodations than I do. If Chips must be put into the Porridge however, I think I would let the bad Cooks put them into the Pot, nor should any throw out Tubs but those who were afraid of the Whale. But a Truce with all this lest you should think my Ideas on a Level with my Company—the Gentlemen of the Scythe & the Rake. If however I can provoke you to oblige me with a Line I shall gain something by these Observations on a Subject which I hope is put to Sleep & at any Rate I have an Opportunity of assuring you of the very sincere Esteem with which I always am Your obed Servt
Richard Peters
P. S. I see you intend that the Ministers at the Heads of Departments should communicate with Congress immediately. Would it not be more proper that they should be Auxiliaries to the President & all Communications come thro’ him as well as all Orders to subordinates pass from him? This may seem trifling but I think I perceive a democratical Jealousy in Members of the House as to the Presidents Powers which induces them to make his Agency in Measures as little necessary as possible. I confess myself more afraid of the popular Part of our Government than of any Exercise of Power elsewhere.


Title: From James Madison to James Monroe, ca. 5 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Monroe, James

Letter not found. Ca. 5 July 1789. Acknowledged in Monroe to JM, 19 July 1789. Reports passage of impost and tonnage bills by Congress.


Title: To James Madison from Samuel Johnston, 8 July 1789
From: Johnston, Samuel
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Edenton 8th. July. 1789
I had the pleasure of receiving your Letters of the 21st and 22d. of June by the last post and feel very sensibly the Obligation you have conferred on me, by the trouble you have taken in this Business, at a Season when you were too much engaged to have any time to spare without inconvenience.
Every one is very much pleased with the President’s answer to our Address. I have agreeably to your Wishes published them and send you a Copy that you may if you think proper have them inserted in some of the New York papers. I shall be very glad if they should have such effect as you suppose, tho I should be sorry to see any material Alterations take place in the Constitution, yet the addition of a little Flourish & Dressing without injuring the substantial part or adding much to its intrinsic value, such as a pompous Declaration of Rights, may have a happy effect in complimenting the Judgment of those who have themselves up in Opposition to it and afford a Salvo to some well disposed men, who were unwarily drawn into these measures, for changing an Opinion which they had too hastily adopted.
I can easily conceive that you will at first meet with a great many perplexities in your progress of carrying the Constitution into effect, but these will gradually lessen as you proceed, and Precedents once formed on solid principles will prevent difficulties from recurring on the same points.
People in general appear to be very well pleased with the proceedings of Congress and in nothing more than that accomodating Spirit by which the members seem to be actuated. Some of your people from Norfolk & Portsmouth who either have Distilleries or an Intention to erect them, were here the other day clamoring very loudly against the impost on Molasses, but as the Views of the People here did not correspond with theirs, it had very little effect, indeed I should be sorry if the Duty on that Article should be lessened. Since our Imports from the West Indies have been reduced within so narrow a Compass, it has become an Article of much more general Consumption in most of the States than it formerly was and will be productive of a considerable Sum to the Revenue. With the most sincere Regard and Esteem, I am My dear sir Your most Obedient Servant
Sam Johnston


Title: To James Madison from David Rittenhouse, 10 July 1789
From: Rittenhouse, David
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir
Philadelphia July 10th. 1789
Engaged as you are in business of the greatest importance as well as difficulty, and harrass’d by a thousand importunate applications, I am fully sensible of the impropriety of troubling any of my friends in Your situation, even with a letter, unless I had either some useful information or matter of amusement to communicate. Permit me nevertheless, by this method, to recommend to your notice the bearer, Mr. William Barton, with whom I have been intimately acquainted from his infancy. His Education his abilities, and still more his principles and integrity, render him a worthy member of Society, and promise to make him more conspicuously useful. Any attention shewn to him will be acknowledged as a particular favour conferred on, Dr. Sir, Your sincere friend & Very humble Servant
Davd. Rittenhouse


Title: To James Madison from George W. Smith, 10 July 1789
From: Smith, George W.
To: Madison, James

Sir,
Tappahannock July 10th. 1789
You will doubtless be much surprised at an Obtrusion so unexpected, and from one who much [sic] be considered by you as a Stranger. I am however, no Stranger to your Character; in which Wisdom & Virtue unite to render it amiable, and which can never fail to acquire you the Respect, the admiration, & the Esteem of all who know it. Much time & much labour it hath cost you. You were happy, Sir, to be early initiated into the paths which lead to it. You explored them with diligence & assiduity. Those Cares are now all past—and the reward is now all your own. Had providence been pleased to turn the attention of my father early towards my Education—my Time also, had been better improved; and my prospects in life less painful than they are. It was not so: and now, destitute of Fortune, I want also the advantages of Education. I do not expect at this period of Life fully to retrieve the Time mispent when a boy—now, when a necessary intercourse with the world, must prove a source of continual Interruptions. I am however, anxious, to be qualified to sustain some Character, in which I may promote equally the Good of our Country & my own Reputation. With these Dispositions, & under those Impressions of your Character, Sir, I have presumed to address you, with a hope to interest you so far in my favour, that in case there should occur any vacancies in Offices which I may be thought Capable to fill, you would confer upon me the Obligation of your Services to obtain some appointment. My attention hath been drawn rather towards public employments, because I conceive they must afford greater opportunity for improvement; beside, that my natural Inclination would lead me to the Service of my Country preferably to all other. But I could not wish to engage in business which I am incapable to discharge well—and therefore, could I have my own choice, I should prefer some Clerkship appertaining to any of the great Departments of Government, where I might be habituated to Method & the Forms of business, or some office in the Customs or Imposts in Virginia. There is at present a prospect of New & general commercial Regulations throughout the Ud. States—and from the debates of Congress, ’tis probable, I think, there will be some new Offices instituted. Were I to await the Event of those arrangments, which seem so certain, my remoteness from the Seat of Government would put it out of my power to make a timely application—my wishes might be anticipated by some person more conveniently situated. This reflection will, I hope, prove a sufficient apology for an Application which might otherwise be thought premature.
I regret much, Sir, that upon this Occasion I have no better Claim to your friendly Services than importunity—and that I must be ranked among the number of those who are Strangers to you. Under such circumstances, should you condescend to be my friend, my obligation to you must be greatly enhanced by them. Should I succeed—it shall be my constant Aim by deligence & Assiduity to atone for my other defects—Esteeming, that the best return I can possibly make for your favourable Opinion of me, will be my unwearied endeavours in some little degree to deserve it. I have the honor to be, Sir, with due Respect & Esteem, Yr. most obdt. & hble. servt.
Geo: W: Smith


Title: To James Madison from Joseph Jones, 11 July 1789
From: Jones, Joseph
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir
Petersburg July 11h. 1789.
Mr. Christopher Roane, who is a searcher at City Point, requests to be introduced to you. He would wish to continue in office. He is a man of great integrity, and has conducted himself well as a Searcher. He was an officer during the late war. Your assistance, in continuing him in office, will, I think, be of service to him, & of advantage to our country, if appointed; he appears to me, to be such a Man, as ought to be employed, from his honesty & uprightness. I am, with the utmost respect, Dr sir Your most obt Sert.
Joseph Jones.


Title: To James Madison from Samuel Vaughan, Jr., 11 July 1789
From: Vaughan, Samuel, Jr.
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Saturday Morning 11 July [1789]
I have erased the names of my Brothers between whom the above Letter passed, to leave you at liberty to make what use you think proper of it. I send you inclosed also an Extract from the Printed report above-mentioned which I recd by the Packet, & which I sent for general information to Mr Fenno. I think it may be particularly useful in Virginia. I remain Dr Sir Your obedt Servt.
Samuel Vaughan Junr


Title: To James Madison from Peter Carr, 13 July 1789
From: Carr, Peter
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir,
Sunday Morning—July 13. 1789.
You informed me some time ago, that there remained in your hands a balance of some money due Mr. Jefferson, and that you were willing it should be applied to the use of my brother and myself. Being disappointed in receiving money which I had expected here you will oblige me much, by advancing what is in Yr. hands. I am Sir Yr. very H Servt
Peter Carr


Title: From James Madison to Edmund Randolph, 15 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Randolph, Edmund

My dear friend
N. York July 15. 89
I have been favd. with yours of the 30 Ult. and thank you for your remarks on the Judiciary bill.
I am glad to find you concurring in the decision as to the power of removal. It seems to meet with general approbation North of Virga. and there too as far as I yet learn. Mr. Pendleton is fully in opinion with you. So is Monroe I am told. The more the question is weighed the more proper I think it will be found to reduce the Ex. agency of the Senate to the very minimum that will satisfy the Constitution. To say nothing of their being the least responsible member of the Government, the nature of their other functions forbids an extension of their Executive. As a Judiciary body for impeachts. they ought not to be called on for a summary opinion on cases that may come judicially before them. And as a controul on the passions of the H. of Reps. they ought to have as little as possible to do with those personal questions which are sources in all Governmts. of the most frequent & violent animosities & factions. The Senate have not yet declared themselves on the question. The event there is doubtful.
You will find among the inclosed papers the impost act as it finally past. The collection bill is gone to the Senate. It is very long, has cost a great deal of trouble, and is by no means in a very correct State. It will do only to begin with. We endeavd. to make the regulations for Va. more palatable than the State laws, by relaxing the plan of the port bill. Adieu
J. M Jr


Title: Salary of the Vice-President, [16 July] 1789
From: Madison, James
To:

[16 July 1789]

   An annual salary of $5,000 was proposed for the vice-president. White objected to any salary being appropriated to the office.

Mr. Madison. I do not concur, Mr. Speaker, in sentiment with my colleague on this subject. I conceive, sir, if the constitution is silent on this point, that it is left to the legislature to decide according to its nature, and its merits. The nature of the office will require, that the vice president shall always be in readiness to render that service which contingencies may require; but I do not apprehend it to be in our power, to derive much advantage from any guides furnished by the examples of the several states; because we shall find them differently provided for, by the different governments. If we consider, that the vice-president may be taken from the extremity of the continent, and be from the nature of his office obliged to reside at, or within the convenient reach of the seat of government, to take upon him the exercise of the president’s functions, in case of any accident that may deprive the union of the services of their first officer, we must see, I think it will often happen, that he will be obliged to be constantly at the seat of government; no officer under the state government, can be so far removed as to make it inconvenient to be called upon when his services are required; so that if they serve without a salary, it may be that they can reside at home, and pursue their domestic business; therefore the application in that case does not appear to me to be conclusive.
My colleague says, that he will derive advantages from being in the line of appointment to the presidential chair; if he is to be considered as the apparent successor of the president, to qualify himself the better for that office, he must withdraw from his other avocations, and direct his attention to the obtaining a perfect knowledge of his intended business.
The idea that a man ought to be paid only in proportion to his services, holds good in some cases, but not in others: It holds good in legislative business, but not in the executive or judicial departments. A judge will be at sometimes unemployed, as is the case with the vice-president, yet it is found necessary to claim the whole of his time and attention to the duties for which he is appointed: If the principle of proportioning the allowance to the quantum of services performed obtains, it will be found, that the judiciary will be as dependant on the legislative authority, as if the legislature was to declare what shall be their salary for the succeeding year; because, by abridging their services at every session, we could reduce them to such a degree, as to require a very trifling compensation indeed: neither do I, Mr. Speaker, consider this as a sinecure, but that will appear from the reasons I have already given; the office of a judge is liable, in some degree, to the same objection, but these kind of objections, are levelled against the institutions themselves: We are to consider his appointment as a part of the constitution, and if we mean to carry the constitution into full effect, we ought to make provision for his support, adequate to the merits and nature of the office.


Title: Salaries for the Congress, [16 July] 1789
From: Madison, James
To:

[16 July 1789]

   A daily pay of six dollars for both senators and representatives was proposed. Sedgwick moved to reduce the representatives’ pay to five dollars.

Mr. Madison Was of opinion that a discrimination was necessary; he observed, that it had been evidently contemplated by the constitution, to distinguish in favor of the senate, that men of abilities and firm principles, whom the love and custom of a retired life might render averse to the fatigues of a public one, may be induced to devote the experience of years, and the acquisitions of study, to the service of their country: And unless something of this kind is adopted, it may be difficult to obtain proper characters to fill the senate, as men of interprize and genius will naturally prefer a seat in the house, considering it to be a more conspicuous situation.


Title: From James Madison to Wilson Cary Nicholas, 18 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Nicholas, Wilson Cary

Dear Sir
N. York July 18. 1789
I inclose herewith the only printed addition which has been made to the sheets of the Journal forwarded by Mr. Hopkins.
The bill imposing duties on imports having been published in all the Newspapers as it finally passed both houses I do not inclose it. The bill imposing duties on tonnage has since become a law in the hands of the President, but is not yet in print. The clauses discriminating between nations in & not in Treaty, were struck out of both by the Senate, & through their perseverance, lost. It was urged on the part of the Senate that something more effectual would be better, and that a Committee had been appointed in that House to devise such a plan. The Committee has since reported, I am told, something like a retaliating regulation on the West-India trade. It will probably come to nothing, many of the members in both Houses having shewn by the nature of their arguments, that they do not think the U. S. ought to risk the scanty privileges G. B. now vouchsafes, by an effort to extend them. The collecting bill is gone to the Senate & will probably become a law in a few days. It is very long, has cost much time and discussion, but will never be very correct until it can be revised under the light of experience. We have thought it proper to enlarge the principle of our port-bill in the regulations for Virginia, in a manner that will be much approved by the opponents of that measure, and I should suppose not disliked by its friends, under the change of situation which has supervened. Bills for establishing the Executive Departments are also with the Senate. The question involved in these concerning the power of removal, produced much discussion. Four opinions were advanced in the course of it. 1. that there could be no removal in any case but by impeachment. This had few advocates. 2. that the power not being given to either department expressly, devolved on the Legislature to be disposed of as might be deemed expedient. Agst. this it was argued that the Legislature might then give it to themselves, or even to the House of Reps. 3. That it was incident to the power of appointment and therefore was the joint right of the Presidt. & Senate. To this it was objected that the Agency of the Senate in the Executive dept. being an exception to the general power given to the Presidt. was to be taken strictly; that this construction was favored by the recd. maxim concerning the separation of the departments of Governt.: that the degree of mixture established by the Constn: has been a ground of one of the strongest objections agst. it; that if the Presidt. could not remove Ex. officers his responsibility would cease; and that the Senate, if they were to be necessarily consulted in such cases, would be obliged to give a summary opinion in that capacity, in the very instances wherein an impeachment might afterwards oblige them to decide in their judicial capacity. 4. that the power being of an Executive nature remained of course to the Presidt. in whom was vested the Executive power not particularly taken away. The objection here was, that it gave the President a very dangerous power, and that it was not warranted by the true exposition of the Constitution. The 4th opinion prevailed in the House of Reps. and has been just acceded to in the Senate Where the division was very nice. The question was an important one and will probably be viewed in different lights without as well as within doors. As far as I have letters on the subject from Virga. the decision is entirely approved, but I have heard (except verbally) from none of my friends but Mr. E. Randolph, Mr. Pendleton & Mr. Jones.
The Judiciary bill has got through the Senate but is not yet before the H. of Reps. Several bills relating to the Western Country & the public accts. are on the Anvil in the latter. The subject of Amendments has awaited the conclusion of business of the first necessity. It will be resumed as soon as a vacancy presents itself.
The provision for the Civil list has been agreed to in the form of Resolutions. The Presidt. is allowed 25,000 dollars. As he means not to apply any part to his own emolument, and will expend no more than he finds requisite, the allowance is of an experimental nature. It was necessary to ensure a sufficiency. During his administration the proper sum to be made permanent will be discovered. The Vice president is to have 5000 Dollars. This was opposed by some as too much & by others as too little. The members of Congs. are to be paid at the rate of 6 dollars per day. My own idea was that the Reps. shd. receive less & the Senators more than that allowance. The Utility of the Senate will depend on its being composed of the first characters, and this on its being a situation substantially preferable. The H. of Reps. like our house of Delegates will have many peculiar attractions, and if these be not outweighed by some peculiar advantages in the Senate, this body like our Senate, will degenerate into an inferior and unavailing institution. Unfortunately the Senate have rendered themselves obnoxious at this moment by their silly attempt to bestow titles; by an injudicious neglect to open their doors, and by some other errors.
In one of the papers inclosed you will find an estimate of the public wants reported by Mr. Gerry. How he makes the Civil list, exclusive (or even inclusive) of the Revenue officers, amount to 300,000 dollars, or why he introduced an invidious comparison between the old & new fedl Govt. are best known to himself. Whether he designed it or not, the tendency of the statement will coincide with his known sentiments towards the Constitution. Present my respects to your brother, and be assured that I am Dr. Sir Yr. Obedt. hble sert
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from James Monroe, 19 July 1789
From: Monroe, James
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Fredricksburg July 19. 1789.
Your favor advising of the passage of the tonage & impost bills by both houses I have recd. It was my intention to have remov’d to Albemarle & attended the Chancery next month thence. But as it will be better to leave Mrs. M. here in that interval than there, where she has comparitively but few acquaintance, have postpon’d our removal untill abt. the 15. of August.
The contest between the two houses respecting a discrimination in those bills, in favor of nations with whom we have treaties of commerce, has I own terminated contrary to my wishes. Our experience since the peace has demonstrated that whilst left to herself, without apprehension of restraints from us, we have nothing to expect from the liberality of G. B.; whether such restraints might ultimately succeed in bringing her to terms, especially with respect to the west Indies, is incertain, but there can be no doubt that untill the experiment is made we must abandon the hope. The conduct of France likewise toward us requires some attention, for altho’ not bound by treaty to give her any preference, even over those nations with whom we are not thus united, yet sound policy and good neighbourhood suggest the propriety of meeting her advances, as well to compensate for those benefits she has already extended to us, as to induce her to grant us others. The subject is however still capable of being manag’d to the best advantage. A restraint on the commerce of B. whether on her shipping or manufactures gives a bounty to France. If the latter is willing to pay the price of such a preference, and to secure the consideration on each side, it may be done thro’ the Executive department of govt. As therefore this door is still open I have hopes the object will not be given up, but that the disposition which the B. have shewn, may be improv’d in that line, with the aid of the Senate, for the common benefit of both nations. Will you adjourn in the course of the year? If so and you visit Virga., we shall be happy to see you in Albemarle.
In what state is our Mohawk affr? A total neglect on our part may be prejudicial to us. He may sell to some other person & convey the land. A communication with him wod. perhaps be proper. I was inform’d by Govr. C. before I left N. Yk. that the land had appreciated at that time in his estimation abt. one dolr. pr. acre. If it had in that degree, at that time and as the Eastern people have settled almost the whole of that country, tis presumeable it has since, to a greater nominal amount tho’ not perhaps in equal ratio. If it is in effect an object I wod. willingly make a sacrifice of other property for it, but if upon a view of present circumstances you are of opinion it is not, it wod. be more convenient for me to divert the money to other purposes than let it lie unprofitably idle. I believe you drew our prize of £3. in this lottery. How many tickets shall I make for you in the last class to be drawn in sepr. Our respects to our friends in B. W. when you see them. Yrs. sincerely
Jas. Monroe


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 19 July 1789
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friend
Wmsburg July 19. 1789.
I am told, that within these few days a considerable quantity of Madeira wine has been run into Virginia in the face of day; and that the opinion of the bar is, that neither law nor court exists, which can embrace the case. We shall have a total anarchy in the customs, unless you speedily forward both to us. The impost-bill, we are informed, has been matured into a law.
We hear nothing of those, who were most strenuous in their opposition to the fœderal government. One of them seems from report to keep his eye more upon the practice of the law in the county courts than any other subject. It is supposed, that he will take the oath, against which he protested; but of this I know no certainty. The different county and corporation-courts in this quarter have given the necessary assurance of their fœderal fidelity without an objection from any body. In Henrico, the most violent were on this occasion temperate.
I have received from Colo. Griffin a letter, dated July 10. 1789, in which is this passage. “I had yesterday morning a long conversation with our worthy president on the subject of officers of the judiciary and the customs. He appears very anxious to know whether any of the gentlemen, who are now in the judiciary department in the state of Virginia, would prefer the continental establishment, and mentioned Mr. Pendleton, Mr. Wythe, Mr. Lyons and Mr. Blair; and ask’d me, whether you had ever intimated a wish to serve in that or any other line, under the fœderal government. May I ask the favor of you to sound Mr. W. & Mr. B. on the subject. I have written to Mr. Marshall relative to the wishes of Mr. P. and Mr. L.” So far as this paragraph respects myself, I do not choose to make a direct answer to Colo. G, but thro’ your medium, and I hope you will not find it inconvenient to communicate with him on the subject. The following is a candid exposition of my situation—
When I quitted my practice, I had arranged my affairs in such a manner, as amply to justify the measure, which I then adopted. The most important debt, which I owed, had arisen from a purchase of Fry’s land; to whic[h] I had opposed for payment a tract, containing twice its quantity in Ch[ar]lotte. This I cannot sell to answer my purpose, and thus do and mus[t] encounter some difficulty. From these circumstances I was led partial[ly] to resume my profession. Since that time, the apprehension with respect to my bosom-companion grows stronger; and the disorder itself, from circumstances suggested in a former letter, will probably make a large demand for money. I have lately too discovered a debt, due from my uncle’s estate of about 800 £, which somewhat alarms me. These pressures must be baffled by some vigorous exertions. If the sale of that portion of property, which I always allotted for the first and third of these exigencies could be effected, my ordinary income would suffice for the second. But a fourth of its value cannot be had; and no extent of practice, which any lawyer possesses, or into which I could return, would supply the necessary aid on this emergency. Unless I were to be in Richmond or to be ¾ of the year without my family, 300 £ would be the utmost produce of the most earnest endeavours. To neither of these conditions can I submit. I had therefore once thought of a seat on our appeals; tho’ there are obstacles to a real wish to succeed of a very particular cast.
Colo. G’s letter has, however, called me to reflect upon a different destination. It would bring with it many conveniences in reference to the complaint of my wife, if a northern journey should be deemed necessary for her. But these would be counterbalanced by the load of calumny, which would be poured upon me. I am aware, in regard to those, whose irritation against the new govt. is not to be allayed, as I could not assuage them, so I cannot exasperate them to a greater degree, than they already are. But for any emolument or honor whatsoever, I would not hazard the esteem of the virtuous, who know my conduct on the great fœderal topic, and, I flatter myself, acknowledge its consistency, and, above all things, its purity. Yes, my dear friend, its purity. For it has been insinuated (and in defiance of truth) that my espousal of the constitution had alienated even its friends from me, who would not elect me to the house of representatives. The insinuation has been carried so far as to apply it to the disposal of offices under the government. My sincere desire then would be to have it in my power to refuse, and actually to refuse an office. But as the tender of a post could not be made on such ground, I commit myself to you, and leave you to represent this business to Colo. Griffin, as you please, if you think, that there is no impropriety in my inlisting under fœderal banners. And yet I ought to add, that nothing definitive can be said, until I learn the changes, which the bill has undergone.
On the 2d. of August I go for Loudoun to argue a cause against Mr. P. Henry. Write me an answer to this letter, and direct for Fredericksburg, there to await me. Ever yrs.

July 21. 1789.
Since writing the inclosed, I thought it adviseable to postpone sending it, until the mail of today should arrive; hoping that if there was any ground for the paragraph referred to in my letter, I might possibly hear something of it by you. Colo. Parker came to town last night, and confirms in some measure what that letter says; for he has himself made the communication to me. I confide every thing to you in this business; for it would counteract some capital measures, which I contemplate for the next session, were it divulged, that I would go into office, and yet not have it offered to me.


Title: To James Madison from George Turner, 19 July 1789
From: Turner, George
To: Madison, James

Sir,
Phila: July 19th. 1789
As many of the public offices are about to be disposed of, may I crave the favour of your influence? Having experienced your friendship on a former occasion, though I did not make use of the letter you favoured me with, I feel emboldened to offer you this additional trouble, which, I trust, you will excuse.
I am unacquainted with the particular appointments which are, at this time, to be made, and cannot therefore point out any as the particular object of my wish. Indeed, if I have any pretensions to public favour, I consider myself the least qualified to judge of them: my Friends must decide for me.
I have made no application to any gentleman in Congress, except Mr. Burke—and he has not been so polite as even to answer my letter. I did expect some appearance, at least, of attention from him; especially as he comes from a state in which I long served, with no discredit, I hope, to myself.

Impressed with the sincerest regard and respect for your character, I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obliged and most obedient Servant—
G Turner


Title: To James Madison from Richard Peters, 20 July 1789
From: Peters, Richard
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Belmont July 20th. 1789.
It is but within a Day or two that I recieved yours of the 14th. in which you very properly leave me as you found me on the Subject I rambled into. But I will revenge myself by sending you a Copy of an old Fable which I have in a curious Collection I keep by me entitled “Aunciente connynge Balladdes.” I am chained to my Chair by my old Tormentor the Piles & I maliciously wish not that all my Friends should be entirely at Ease. But I let you off gently by only obliging you to read some bad Verses which I know not that you are any wise concerned in save that had you lived in the Days of these Cooks your Easiness of Temper (for which I do not like you a Jot the worse) would have prompted you to indulge the Anti Soupites in some of their Whims of an innocent Nature especially if they had been some of your Neighbours. Believe me very truly your affectionate Friend & Servt
Richard Peters

[Enclosure]

The Wise Cooks & foolish GuestsA Fable
Eleven Cooks assembled once
To make a Treat of Soup
All knowing—not a Dunce
Among the skilful Group.
The Soup was made—delicious! good!
Exclaim’d each grateful Guest,
But some who would not taste the Food,

Declar’d it wanted Zest.
Among those Malcontents were found
Some faulting each Ingredient
While others eager search’d around
To find out some Expedient
With which at once to damn the whole
Not take it in Detail.
They would not sup a single Bowl
Lest more they dare not rail.
At Length the Grumblers all fell out
In Nothing could agree
Not e’en while making of a Rout
Of what the Soup should be.
They curse the Cooks & hungry rave
For those of better Skill—
Another Mess some swear they’l have
On which they’l freely swill.
“Pray taste the Soup” requir’d the Cooks
“We’ll yield if we’re outreason’d.”
—We know ’tis bad—“by what?”—its Looks
’Tis rich & highly season’d—
We wish for Soup in th’ Maigre Stile
That’s thin—to save Expences—
(The Cooks exclaim & archly smile
“Good Sirs you’ve lost your Senses!”)
We know you Cooks who’ve learnt your Trade
Will think we talk like Asses—
But we’ll have Broth that’s cheaply made
No Salt—not much Molasses.
Instead of Dumplins we’ll have Chips
Instead of Gravy—Vapour—
And e’er it goes between our Lips
We’ll fine it down with—Paper—
And that all Palates we may please
And on your Plan refine
We’ll add some scrap’d Rh: Island Cheese
Warm’d up with Knotts of Pine.
We’ll tender this to all we meet
And if their Tastes forsake ’em

So that our Fare they will not eat
By——with Force we’ll make ’em—
If we cant have our proper Broth
We’ll join & spoil your Mess.
No Master Cook we’ll have—In Troth
We wish for Nothing less—
We’ll make a Bargain with ourselves
That one sha’n’t poison t’other
We are such wise suspicious Elves
That none will trust his Brother.
We’ll watch our Pot with sleepless Care,
O’er all we’ll keep a tight Hand,
For Honesty we feel’s so rare
Our left will cheat our right Hand—
“Our Comprehensions” cry the Cooks
“With yours are not on Level.
“To us your Mixture really looks
“A Pottage for the Devil.
“At us, good Sirs, then cease to rave
“You’re surely touch’d with Mania.
“We’ll eat our Soup—do you go shave—
“Lord help your Pericrania![”]

Moral
To mend is truly always right
But then the Way to do it
Is not so facile to the Wight
Who undertakes to shew it.


Title: To James Madison from Edmund Randolph, 23 July 1789
From: Randolph, Edmund
To: Madison, James

My dear friend
Wmsburg July 23. 1789.
I this morning received your favor of the 15th.
In my letter of yesterday, I gave you a faithful narrative of my situation. On further reflection I feel the propriety of the communication more strongly. More confidentially therefore do I repose myself on you. Colo. Parker seems to think (but I am persuaded upon grounds, in no respect tenable,) that the president expects applications from those, who are willing to become servants of the U. S. It is too outrageous, to be believed, and even when believed, cannot be submitted to by men of real merit.
The tincture, with which he has coloured some subjects, has nauseated some of the best fœderalists here. And the form of the levee, with the pres[iden]t’s total alienation (in point of dinners,) from the representatives, has awakened a degree of jealousy. In short he represents every thing, as marching with furious rapidity, towards monarchy; as far as manners can work such an effect.


Title: To James Madison from Leighton Wood, 25 July 1789
From: Wood, Leighton
To: Madison, James

Sir
New York 25th July 1789.
Being desirous from a variety of reasons mostly of a private na[ture] to change my residence, & presuming on your Friendship I ta[ke] the liberty of soliciting your recommendation to some O[ffice] under the new Government, for which you may deem [me] qualified. The different Departments that I have had the honour to hold for twelve Years past in the State of Virginia, & for almost nine of them the office of Solicitor, I trust will be some recommendation; for altho’ I am fully sensible of my inabilities to discharge so important an appointment with that propriety which, others possessed of superior Talents might have done, yet the approbation of both the Assembly & Executive that may be inferred from their permitting me to continue in the publick Service for such a length of time, will I hope in your opinion, operate in my favour. I will not Sir, however desirous I may be of a completion of my wishes, attempt to impose upon you a Beleif, or endeavour to insinuate an Idea of my being possessed of any extra knowledge in Accounts; the keeping of which, & especially those of the Publick being generally but of a simple nature, requires little more than common abilities except Diligence and Attention, & those requisites being somewhat within the power of every Man, I can venture to say shall on my part be sufficiently given to any Business I may have the honour to be entrusted with. I wish not for any conspicuous Office being conscious of the imprudence & presumption it would be in me to indulge hopes of that kind. A second[ary] appointment only, is what I wish, with emoluments suffic[ient to] answer such purposes, that Men with Families generally [have i]n veiw, And to obtain that Sir, if you from your own kno[wledg]e of my Conduct deem me worthy of your attention, my wi[shes] will be satisfactorily accomplished, & the favour gratefully [re]membered by Sir Your most obt. & very hble Servt:
Leig wood Junr


Title: Washington’s Queries concerning Negotiations with Spain, [ca. 25 July] 1789
From: Washington, George
To:

[ca. 25 July 1789]

Queries

1st.If there should be a majority—or a large minority—in the Senate for continuing the negotiations (maugre the difficulty with respect to the navigation of the Mississipi) from an opinion that the terms, upon the whole, ought to be acceded to; will the President stand justified under the notification of Mr. Gardoqui’s leave of absence, & intended departure by the first opportunity, for letting him do this without submitting the matter in some form or another to the Senate?—notwithstanding it is the opinion of the President that the claim of the U. S to this Navigation ought not to be weakened by any negotiation whatsoever.
2d.Is there not something in the expression of the answer of Mr. Jay to Mr. Gardoqui that may be construed into a relaxation on this point, when the present derangements are done away, and we shall be in a condition to renew the Negotiations under the new Governt.
3d.Would it be improper, besides withholding or qualifying the expression above alluded to, to convey verbally (a memorandum of which to be taken) but delicately to Mr. Gardoqui that from the very nature of things, and our peculiar situation we never can loose sight of the use of that Navigation however it might be restrained—and that by a just & liberal policy both Countries might derive reciprocal advantages?

He had better, in my opinion, return with our ideas to this effect, delicately & tenderly expressed, than with any hope or expectation of our yeilding the navigation of a River which is so tenaciously contended for by a large part of the Union, and the Relinquishment of which, or the fear of which, founded on appearances, would occasion—certainly—the seperation of the Western territory.


Title: To James Madison from John Hoomes, 27 July 1789
From: Hoomes, John
To: Madison, James

Dr Sir,
Virginia Boling Green July 27h. 1789.
I have lately made a tour of the district of Kentucky & am very much pleased with the face of the Country & have Serious thoughts of moving to it, which may be a matter of considerable consequence to me, & perhaps of the greatest & lasting importance to my family.
For those reasons I trust you will excuse me for troubling you on a Subject so interesting & if hastily determined on may end in ruin. I believe I may venture to Say that the lands in Kentucky, are richer than any yet found in N. America & that they do produce more of every thing put into them than any yet Settled & nothing appears to be wanting but a good market for what the inhabitants will have to Spare. I am conscious that your line of life added to your great Knowledge of things in general puts it in your power to judge of the prospects of a trade down the Mississippi, (Which must be the Key to that country) therefore I am induced to ask you whether you think the Spaniards are or will be disposed to trade with the Settlers of Kentucky or if the navigation of that river will be free or whether there is any (even the most distant) prospect of New Orleans being made a free port which is certainly the best thing that could be done for that Country, or whether the immense Quantities of Corn, Wheat Tobo. Flour & provisions of every Kind that may be Sold (at near half the price they now Sell for in this State) as soon as the Country gets well Settled will not be an Object worth contending for by Europeans, & if Spain will ever be Suffered to Shut up a river that (perhaps) waters the Most extensive & richest Country in the Whole World. If I have gone farther than I ought you will please to answer only Such parts of my letter as you think proper & well Knowing the great Burden of Business you must have on your hands I intreat you to answer this at your leisure & to give me your Opinion of the Country in any manner you think best.
I parted with Colo. George Nicholas who has become a resident of Kentucky the last of June, he is building himself an Elegant house, & wi[ll] Soon be well fixed he is much pleased & has a great run of business in his way, & so has our old Schoolmate Hary Innes. The people that went wit[h] Morgan to the Spanish Side of the Mississippi retu[rn]ed much disgusted & it is said there is not the smalle[st] prospect of his effecting a Settlement there. Produce is at present high Tobo. from 18 to 20/. per Hundred Corn 10/. per Barrel Wheat 4/. Rye 3/. & other things in proportion Owing to the Number of new Settlers in [it?] except the Tobo. which is carried to Orleans. They are a great deal more populous than I expected having at least 8,000 Militia & upwards of 60,000 Souls. I am Dr Sir with the greatest Esteem very respectfully yr. mo. Obt. Hble. Sert
John Hoomes


Title: To James Madison from Richard Grubb, 29 July 1789
From: Grubb, Richard
To: Madison, James

Sir
Richmond Virginia July 29th. 1789
At a time when Your extensive abilitys and attention are so constantly engaged and unremittingly employed in the advancing the happiness, of Your Country, an Address from an Individual and who has not the honor of being personaly known to You, And on a subject which may appear somewhat partial, May be an intrusion deman[d]ing great merit in the subject and Party intruding to apologize for. The one he is certain will have your excuse if in any portion of it You should perceive a future good to Society. For that share in which the Individual appears interested he rests for pardon solely on Your condescension.
From an early propensity and a long attachment to the study of The Mechanic Arts and the various ways in which they may be applyed to useful purposes I have at different periods invented a variety of Instruments, Machines &c, But which I have never had sufficient confidence in myself to venture imparting a sight of to any other person. Not satisfyed upon Reflection that such diffidence was altogether commendable—joined to a Resolution (arising from an Aversion to and a determination to withdraw from farther Mercantile pursuits, a profession always clashing with my natural inclination and in which I have been singularly unfortunate) Of devoting myself in future entirely to that Study—And in aid to those motives The encouragment held forth in the New Constitution for securing Inventors &c. in their Right to reward for useful productions, Al[t]ogether induce me to make a first Essay with the Object named in the inclosed form of Petition, and which I have taken the liberty of requesting leave to submit to you for Your approbation, which should I have the satisfaction of Obtaining and in addition your kind assistance in informing me the mode In which it must be introduced to the Honble. Body for whose consideration it is intended, I will have wrote in the prescribed manner and put into progress through the Channel and in the manner the instructions Your kind condescendsion may honor me with, point out.
As I am I beleive equaly unknown to all the Gentlemen Your Honble. Colleagues from this State, I hope to have your pardon for this self introduction to You, To whom my wishes have led me in particular from (permit me Sir to say) An admiration of and esteem for Your eminently Patriotic Character, I should have done myself the honor of personally and Respectfully waiting on You on this subject, but engagements to unavoidable appearance in several suits pending in the different supreme Courts of this State, and in which I am greatly interested, And which from the late appointment of district-Courts, has occasiond to fall for early trials and within a short time of each other, prevent me.
Renewing my request for Your pardon, and beging the Honor of an answer I remain with Respectfull deference Sir, Your Most Obedient and Very Humble Servant
Richard Grubb


Title: To James Madison from Thomas Jefferson, 29 July 1789
From: Jefferson, Thomas
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Paris July 29. 1789.
I wrote you on the 22d. Since that I have received yours of the 23d. of May. The president’s title as proposed by the Senate was the most superlatively ridiculous thing I ever heard of. It is a proof the more of the justice of the character given by Doctr. Franklin of my friend[:] always an honest man often a great one but sometimes absolutely mad. I wish he could have been here during the late scenes. If he could then have had one fibre of aristocracy left in his frame he would have been a proper subject for bedlam. The tranquility of this place has not been disturbed since the death of Foulon & Bertier. Supplies of bread are precarious, but there has not as yet been such a want as to produce disorder, and we may expect the new wheat harvest to begin now in ten or twelve days. You will wonder to find the harvest here so late: but from my observations (I guess, because I have not calculated their result carefully) the sun does not shine here more than 5. hours of the 24. through the whole year. I inclose you some papers worth notice, which indeed have principally induced me to address you so soon after my last. I am with perfect esteem & attachment Dear Sir Your friend & servt
Th: Jefferson


Title: To James Madison from Edward Carrington, 30 July 1789
From: Carrington, Edward
To: Madison, James

My dear Sir
Powhatan July 30. 1789
That several of the Packets you have done me the favor to send have remained so long unacknowledged is owing to my having been engaged in business which took me out of reach of the Post Office. I a few days ago was possessed of the whole together. The papers containing the debates upon the powers of the President to remove Officers of the Executive department, were truly acceptable. This was an important Matter and, in my opinion involved the vitals of that part of the Constitution. The President without such powers would have been, but nominally, at the head of the Executive; his authority would have been diminished to almost nothing, and proportionably his responsibility. The debates in the oposition were, some of them ingenious—they have however turned principally on the possibility of wanton abuses in the President, when I think it might have been considered that divesting him of these powers would expose the public to very probable abuses in many other hands: the question is reducible to this alternative, either to leave it in the power of the President to abuse his Trust in wantonly removing inferior Officers; or subject the public to daily abuses in the hands of every inferior officer who may be employed. His situation will always afford the public a good security against his exercising his powers to the injury of a good Officer, whilst that of the inferior Officers, were they independent of him, would be constantly productive of abuses in neglect of duty, not to say any thing of active vices. To say he might have procured the removal of a bad Officer by impeachment was saying nothing, he must have been constantly employed as a prosecutor, in which he would have lost much of the weight necessary to his Station, nor would that establishment for the trial of High Officers have long retained the necessary solemnity, had it been resorted to too frequently. In fine, the inferior Officers of the Executive department, are but aids of the President, and it would, in my opinion, have been absurd, to give him less than full powers over them.
Accept my thanks for the punctuallity with which you favor me with the papers which contain your debates; be good enough my dr sir to continue sending them, with just so much writing, as you can, with convenience, spare the time to commit to paper. Present me to your worthy Colleagues and beleive me to be with great sincerity yr Affe. Freind &c.
Ed. Carrington


Title: From James Madison to Samuel Johnston, 31 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Johnston, Samuel

Dear Sir:
N. York, July 31, 1789.
I was duly honored with your favor of the 8th instant, inclosing a copy of the President’s answer to the address of the Executive of your State. The arrival coincided with the very moment when the subject of amendments had been resumed, and was certainly not an unpropitious circumstance. You will find the result of a committment of the business in the inclosed paper. From the dispatch and concord which have latterly prevailed, I have no doubt that something will be effected during the present session, at least so far as may depend on the House of Rep’s. For the Senate I cannot answer, though I have no reason to suppose that any difficulties will be encountered there, if the plan of alterations be not extended beyond its present limits.
Delays which could not be avoided have postponed the passage of the collection bill so long that a short interregnum in the customs will be unavoidable. In the neighboring ports, however, it will not go beyond a day or two. The Judiciary system has been sent from the Senate and will probably be taken up to day in the House of Rep’s. It is pregnant with difficulties, not only as relating to a part of the constitution which has been most criticised, but being in its own nature peculiarly complicated & embarrassing. The Senate have proceeded on the idea that the federal Gov’t ought not to depend on the State Courts any more than on the State Legislatures, for the attainment of its ends and it must be confessed, that altho’ the reasons do not equally hold in the two cases, yet not only theoretic propriety, but the vicious constitution and proceedings of the Courts in the same states, countenance the precaution in both. At the same time it seems scarcely practicable to carry federal justice home to the people on this plan without a number of offices & a degree of expense which are very serious objections to it. The plan of the Senate is perhaps disagreeable with encountering these objections without securing the benefits for which the sacrifice is to be made. In criminal matters it appears to be particularly defective, being irreconcilable as it stands with a local trial of offenses. The most that can be said in its favor is that it is the first essay, and in practice will be surely an experiment. In this light, it is entitled to great indulgence, and if not material improvement, should be made in the H. of Rep’s, as is likely to be the case, will, I trust, remain that proof the public candor whenever it may make its appearance. With the highest respect and sincerest regards, I am, Dear Sir, Your obed’t & mo. oblg. servant,
Jas. Madison, Jr.


Title: From James Madison to Anthony Wayne, 31 July 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Wayne, Anthony

Dear Sir
N. York July 31st. 1789.
Your favor of the 15th of June has been some time in my hands, but no opportunity of acknowledging it has hitherto occurred; and I write now more in order to be ready for the first casual conveyance rather than with a reliance on any known one. I do not make use of the mail, because it is rendered ineligible by the delay & uncertainty incident to it.
I can not undertake to decide on the merits of your suggestion with regard to Indian and Spanish Affairs in your quarter. As the question depends on a knowledge both of military and local circumstances, it is more proper that I should pay the attention due to your remarks on it. Some systematic provision for the security of our frontiers, and the respectability of our national posture, ought not and I hope will not be long delayed. As far as this provision may depend on the Legislature of the Union I have no reason to apprehend a backwardness to the subject. Hitherto it has been necessarily excluded by subjects of prior necessity. There can be as little reason to doubt that the measures depending on the Executive Authority will be such as they ought to be. It is fortunate that to the other qualifications of the President, is added a more than common knowledge of Western and Indian affairs, which will enable him to make the best use of all information relating to them, at the same time that his knowledge of military characters will suggest to him the fittest for executing plans of public defence. What is most to be apprehended in this case is the delay inseparable not only from the nature, but the newness of our Government.
Your observations in favor of an early establishment in South Western, corresponding with that under Genl. St. Clair in the N. Western district, appear to me to be just and important. How far the nature of the Cession made by Georgia has sufficiently prepared the way on her part I cannot precisely say. I think she would act prudently as well as honorably, in bringing that transaction to a speedy conclusion, and on principles as liberal as she can reconcile with her essential interests. To compleat such an arrangement as you have pointed at, N. Carolina ought to be a party to it; and that is one urgent motive among a variety of others, for wishing her in the Union.
The commercial system has taken up so much time that it is but just going into execution. The subject next in order is the judiciary establishment which is pregnant with perhaps still greater difficulties; but being sent from the Senate in the form of a digested bill, will it is hoped produce less discussion and delay. With great respect & esteem I am Sir Your Obedt. & very hble servt
Js. Madison Jr


Title: From James Madison to Wilson Cary Nicholas, 2 August 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Nicholas, Wilson Cary

Dear Sir
N. York Aug: 2. 1789.
My last inclosed a continuation of the printed Journals of the H. of Reps. I now add two sheets more. They are no otherwise valuable than as they serve to make up an entire sett.
The commercial bills are at lengths off our hands. They have been so long delayed that an interregnum of a day or two will take place even in this & the adjacent ports, and an inconvenient one in the distant ports. The Judiciary bill comes next into consideration. The subject itself is full of difficulties and the bill as sent from the Senate has left many of them to be contended with by the H. of Reps. The utmost that can be hoped will be to avoid in the first essay fundamtal [sic] and obnoxious errors. Time alone and the aid of the Judges after some little experience, will be able to render the system tolerably correct.
The proposed amendments of which I sent you a copy have since been in the hands of a committee composd of a member from each State. Their report is inclosed. [Some] of the changes are perhaps for the better, others for the worse. From the concord of the Come. and the language used in the House on the last discussion, I indulge a confidence that something will be effected. For the Senate I can less answer, but I have no reason for distrust in case the plan be kept within its present limits. I am Dr. Sir Yrs.
Js Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from George Turner, 2 August 1789
From: Turner, George
To: Madison, James

Sir,
Philadelphia, August 2d./89
When I took the liberty to trouble you with my letter, I wished to leave much to the discretion of my friends, as to any appointment for which I might be offered. I had no precise knowledge of the greater part of the offices to be created; nor was I informed how the candidates for public favour had directed the train of their applications. It was possible, I reflected, that many of them might rest their hopes and interest on one and the same object, and that in consequence but little chance of success could fall to the lot of a person applying at this late hour.
You have been so good as to enumerate in your obliging favour of the 23d. ulto. the several departments. There will, no doubt, be many desirable posts in those which are yet open. I should prefer a situation at or near the seat of government, but this I do not insist on. As to the Bench in the Western Territory, which you are pleased to mention, I fear, circumstances considered, it would not altogether accord with my convenience at this time. I have a little family, whose education must be an important object with me, and, on that account, I could wish to remain in the more settled parts of the continent.
I have lately received an answer from my friend Judge Burke, who appears extremely desirous to render me. He informs me of your very friendly conduct in joining you[r] influence to his.
I have written to Mr. Burke by this post, and shall trouble you with another line by the next, if well, as I have not time now to add another syllable more than that I am, with great esteem and attachment Sir, Your most obedient and obliged hble. Servant
G Turner


Title: To James Madison from John Walker, 2 August 1789
From: Walker, John
To: Madison, James

Letter not found. 2 August 1789. Calendared in the lists probably kept by Peter Force (DLC: Madison Miscellany). The one-page letter was offered for sale in the Stan. V. Henkels Catalogue No. 694 (1892), which listed items from the McGuire collection of JM’s papers.


Title: To James Madison from Edward Carrington, 3 August 1789
From: Carrington, Edward
To: Madison, James

My dear Sir,
Richmond August 3. 1789
Since mine of the 30th. Ult, I have been honored with yours of the 20th. & 22d. I am disappointed in the Issue of the Tonage Bill—it is however to be hoped that G. B. will, from what has happened, take some alarm & adopt such a policy as will leave it unnecessary to agitate a question of discrimination amongst foreign Nations again—she is apprised to the natural advantages we possess over her, and will expect us to discover how to use them. Our Freind Grayson has given me a Sketch of the Judiciary system as projected in the Senate. It is very different from what I had formed in my own mind, and I beleive will not be much approved of. This is a great subject of which I will not pretend to a Competent Judgment, seeing however that it would produce much variety of sentiment, I have employed some thoughts upon it—the result of my reflections, is, that the State Courts, where they are well established might be adopted as the inferior Federal Courts, except as to Maritime business. Indeed it appears to me that institute as many inferior Federal Courts as you will, those of the States will, from the Constitution which injoins upon them an Observance of the federal Laws, have concurrent jurisdiction with the former, and that appeals to the supreme Court will alike lie from each. If this idea is right why not leave the whole of the business with the State Courts under such regulations, as to appeals, as may be found well? Such an arrangement would save immense expence; would ocasion little innovation in the antient forms of Judicial proceedings amongst the people, and would also, without difficulty, accommodate jury trials in matters of fact, to the wishes of each state, as every one would retain its own usage. As to amenability for the federal duties in the State Judges, if the constitution fixes on them these duties, they must of course be responsible to the same authority for a faithful discharge of them in such way as the Govt. shall by Law direct. I do not apprehend that the extraordinary Act of Virga. will interfere with the operation of a plan thus founded. If the duties vest as I suggest, no act of the State, which does not annihillate its judiciary establishment, can affect them; the Act alluded to however only prohibits the acceptance of individual appointments, which are not necessary for the adoption of the State Courts into the federal system. At the same time this plan presents itself to my mind as the best, I would yet have Congress provide for separate appointments of inferior Courts in States who may not have good establishments for themselves. In Rhode Island were she in the Union there might be a necessity for such a partial provision.
These Ideas may not be correct they however occur to me, and I have taken the liberty to submit them to your judgement. Present me to your worthy Colleagues & beleive me to be, with the greatest sincerity & truth yr Afft. Hl St.
Ed. Carrington


Title: To James Madison from George Washington, 5 August 1789
From: Washington, George
To: Madison, James

My dear Sir,
August 5th. 1789
I want to communicate two matters to Congress; the substance of which is contained in the enclosed Paper. The first requires to be decided upon before the proposed adjournment shall take place—but my motive for commun[ic]ating the other, at this time, is only to fix the attention, & to promote enquiry against the next meeting.
Whether would an Oral or written communication be best?
If the first what mode is to be adopted to effect it?
I would thank you, my good Sir, for amending the enclosed address, if you have leizure, by adding to, or striking out such parts as you may think had better be expunged. I am most Affectly Yours
Go: Washington


Title: To James Madison from Benjamin Thompson, 7 August 1789
From: Thompson, Benjamin
To: Madison, James

Sir
Morris Town August 7th. 1789
As I have Supposed under the present government of the Union, that Congress will shortly find it expedient to make some Appointments in a Consular capacity to the Ports of France & French Islands, I have had thoughts of offering myself a Candidate for One or Other of the latter. My Knowledge of the language, customs & manners of the french Nation, I flatter myself, will entitle me to some consideration in the eye of those within Whose department such Appointments may fall. From the increasing intercourse with the Islands, I think they will be most likely to afford the best field for the exercise of the Knowledge & qualities requisite to the discharge of Consular duties. This reason itself is sufficiently important to induce a preference to the Islands. I have besides hopes of very considerable advantages that must Naturally result from a residence in a public Character—but I am altogether at a loss with respect to the mode of Application that would be most likely to succeed in bringing me forward to proper notice. I have therefore, sir, presuming on your former very obliging & friendly attention to me, ventured to solicit your advice & aid on the ocasion. I am known to the President General, to the gentelmen of Congress from this State & many others, but how far such interest & influence may avail in promoting the object I have in view, you doubtless, Sir, are best able to point out. I want information on the Subject & cannot conveniently at this time leave my Family & concerns at home; a line from you Sir, may perhaps for the Moment, answer the purpose of a Journey to New York, but Should you advise a personal attendance hereafter, I shall be ready to proceed. I Shall esteem it a very particular favor to hear from you in Answer ⅌ the Morris Town Stage Which leaves Powles Hook every Thursday Morning by Nine oClock. I am with great Esteem & regard Sir your very Humble servant
Benja: Thompson


Title: From James Madison to James Monroe, 9 August 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Monroe, James

Dear Sir
N. Y. Aug: 9. 1789.
I have been some days in debt for your favour of the 19th. Ult. Notwithstanding the time I have been here Taylor has never made any application on the subject of our purchase nor have I ever found that he has himself been in the City. Whence his silence has proceeded I am not able to say. It has frequently occurred to me to write to him, and I should probably have done so long since; had I not calculated on some favorable opportunity of visiting the quarter in which the land lies, in which expectation I have been constantly disappointed. I think with you that it will be highly proper to pay some effectual attention to the matter, without much further delay, and if I should not be able to make a trip which would enable to see Taylor, I shall endeavor to make up of some other mode of communicating with him.
Your ideas on the proposed discrimination between foreign Nations coincide I perceive, exactly with those which have governed me. The Senate did not allow that no effort should be made for vindicating our commercial interests, but argued that a more effectual mode should be substituted. A Come. was appd. in that branch to report such a mode. The report made is founded on something like a retort of her restrictions in the Wt. Inda. channels. It is now said that as the measure would involve an imposition of extraordinary duties, the Senate cannot proceed in it. Mr. Gerry alluding to these circumstances moved two days ago for a bill giving further encouragement to trade & navigation, and obtained a Committee for the purpose. What will be the result is uncertain. If the attempt added to what has passed should as it probably will, be made known abroad, it may lead to apprehensions that may be salutary.
The attention of the H. of Reps. for some days has been confined to the subject of compensations. The bill is at length brought into its final shape. Much discussion took place on the quantum for the members of Congs. & the question whether it shd. be the same for both Houses. My own opinion was in favor of a difference founded on a reduction of the sum proposed with regard to the H. of Reps. & an augmentation as to the Senate. As no difference took place, the case of the Senate and of the members from S. C. & Georga. had real w[eig]ht agst. a lesser sum than 6 dollrs. which [I own] is higher than I had contemplated for [the] H. of Reps, & which I fear may excite criti[cisms] not to be desired at the present moment.
Yesterday was spent on a Message from the President relative to Indian Affairs & the Militia. Bills are ordered providing for a Treaty with the Hostile tribes, and for regulating the Militia. The latter is an arduous task & will probably not be compleated at this Session. Your friends in B. W. were well last evening. Adu. Yrs
Js. Madison Jr


Title: To James Madison from Alexander White, 9 August 1789
From: White, Alexander
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Philada. 9th August 1789
I have not been long enough in this City to pretend to a knowledge of the general Sentiments of its Inhabitants. Those I have seen exclaim against the Salaries allowed our Officers, And make a particular handle of the 730 Dollars to the Door Keeper, they (Miers Fisher excepted) deem our own Wages too high, also the Salaries of the President and Vice President. In other Matters they express great satisfaction, Say the Revenue Laws are well drawn and think the Duties in general proper—Shew almost a childish anxiety for the removal of the Congress to this place, and pretend to count Votes by States and by Poll, treat the Idea of fixing the permanent Seat of Government in Patowmack within a Century to come as too rediculous to merit consideration, resting assured that whenever the Question is put, Dalaware will be the place. Brown the Printer of the Federal Gazette waited on me—to apologise as I conceived for a Publication in his Paper animadverting severely on the Proceedings of Congress. His Apology amounted to this, that as we had merited abuse, it was better bestowed by a Federalist than an Anti Federalist. It is possible some letters may come to me by Post. I intended to mention this to Mr Beckeley, and get him to inclose them for your direction, and Frank, but forgot it. I understand they will not come free to me when absent from Congress, must therefore request favr. of you. Present my Compliments to all the Gentlemen of our Club, It was with deep regret I left them, and the business of Congress unfinished. I am with the most sincere Regard Dear Sir Your &c
Alex White
P. S. My proper direction is at Woodville, near Winchester Virginia.


Title: From James Madison to Edward Carrington, 12 August 1789
From: Madison, James
To: Carrington, Edward

Dear Sir
N. Y. Aug: 12. 89.
I am just favd. with yours of the 30th. inst: and am glad to find your sentiments so decided as to the power of removal by the Presidt. Every letter to me, and as far as I know to others here, from Virga. ratifies the propriety of the decision of Congress. Our last discussions of moment have turned on the Compensations. The bill as gone to the Senate, allows Six dollars a day to the members of both Houses. My own idea was that it should have been less for the Reps. & more for the Senate. With equal emoluments the ablest men will prefer the H. of Reps. and the Senate will degenerate into an unfitness for the great objects of its institution. The rate allowed is unpopular in this quarter of the Union. But the truth is that 6 dollars [is no less required] for the distant States, particularly S. C. & Georgia, than 4 would be to N. Jersey, Connecticut &c. and a defective allowance would put the States at a distance under disadvantages of a very serious nature. Add to this that a less sum than 6 dollars for the Senate (whose case was involved in that of the H. of Reps. after the vote agst. a discrimination) could not well be thought of. On these grounds the measure must rest for its vindication. I am afraid it will be disrelished in your part of Virga. & can not say that I am satisfied with it myself. With men of liberal turns and who know the former allowances made to Congs by the States, and who moreover take into view the situation & policy of the distant States, an apologetic reasoning on the subject will not be difficult. With those of another cast, the case will be different.
This the day for taking up the Report of Come. on amendts.
Js Madison J[r]


Title: To James Madison from James Monroe, 12 August 1789
From: Monroe, James
To: Madison, James

Dear Sir
Fredricksburg Augt. 12. 1789.
Your favor of the 27th. ulto. found me in Richmond attending the chancery whence I returnd two days since. We move on monday next to Albemarle having already sent up the principal part of our furniture &ca. You will address to me in future by the way of Richmond. Our delay has been protracted too long to secure us, I fear, from the contagion incident to the lower country; as yet however we have escap’d any sensible effects, so that if it shod. discover itself above, tis not improbable it may be attributed to an improper cause.
The bills on ordinary subjects as trade &ca appear to give general satisfaction. That to embrace the Judiy. will occasion more difficulty, I apprehend, than any other, as it will form an exposition of the powers of the govt. itself, and shew in the opinion of those who organize it, how far it can discharge its own functions, or must depend for that purpose, on the aid of those of the States. Whatever arrangment shall be now made in that respect, will be of some duration, wh. shews the propriety of a wise provision in the commencment.
I write you in haste merely to apprize you of my departure hence & assure you of the esteem & regard with wh. I am sincerely yours—
Jas Monroe


Title: Amendments to the Constitution, [13 August] 1789
From: Madison, James
To:

[13 August 1789]

   On 21 July, JM moved that the House take up amendments in the Committee of the Whole, as provided in his resolution of 8 June. After some debate, the House referred the 8 June resolution and all the amendments proposed by the state ratifying conventions to a select committee of one member from each state. This committee reported on 28 July (JM to W. C. Nicholas, 2 Aug. 1789 and n. 1). On 13 August, Lee moved that the Committee of the Whole take up the report of the select committee. JM spoke on this motion.

Mr. Madison. I beg leave to make one or two remarks more in consequence of the observations which have fell from the different sides of the house: Some gentlemen seem to think that additional propositions will be brought forward; whether they will or not I cannot pretend to say; but if they are, I presume they will be no impediment to our deciding upon those contained in the report. But gentlemen who introduce these propositions will see, that if they are to produce more copious debate than has hitherto taken place, they will consume a great part of the remainder of the session. I wish the subject well considered, but I do not wish to see any unnecessary waste of time, and gentlemen will please to remember that this subject has yet to go before the senate.
I admit, with the worthy gentleman who preceded me, that a great number of the community are solicitous to see the government carried into operation; but I believe that there is a considerable part also anxious to secure those rights which they are apprehensive are endangered by the present constitution; now, considering the full confidence they reposed at the time of its adoption in their future representatives, I think we ought to pursue the subject to effect. I confess it has always appeared to me in point of candor and good faith, as well as policy, to be incumbent on the first legislature of the United States, at their first session, to make such alterations in the constitution as will give satisfaction without injuring or destroying any of its vital principles.
I should not press the subject at this time, because I am well aware of the importance of the other business enumerated by the gentlemen who are adverse to the present motion, but, from an apprehension that if it is delayed until the other is gone through, that gentlemen’s patience and application will be so harassed and fatigued as to oblige them to leave it [in] an unfinished state, until the next session; beside, was the judicial bill even to pass now, it could not take effect until others were enacted, which probably at this time are not drawn up.

   Cong. RegisterThomas Lloyd, comp., The Congressional
          Register; or, History of the Proceedings and Debates of the First House of
          Representatives … (2 vols.; New York, 1789; Evans 22203–4)., II, 165–66.

[13 August 1789]

   After Lee’s motion passed, the committee took up the question of whether the amendments should be incorporated into the text of the Constitution or appended to it as a series of separate propositions.

Mr. Madison. Form, sir, is always of less importance than the substance; but on this occasion, I admit that form is of some consequence, and it will be well for the house to pursue that, which upon reflection, shall appear to be the most eligible. Now it appears to me, that there is a neatness and propriety in incorporating the amendments into the constitution itself; in that case the system will remain uniform and entire; it will certainly be more simple, when the amendments are interwove into those parts to which they naturally belong, than it will if they consist of separate and distinct parts; we shall then be able to determine its meaning without references or comparison; whereas, if they are supplementary, its meaning can only be ascertained by a comparison of the two instruments, which will be a very considerable embarrassment, it will be difficult to ascertain to what parts of the instrument the amendments particularly refer; they will create unfavorable comparisons, whereas if they are placed upon the footing here proposed, they will stand upon as good foundation as the original work.
Nor is it so uncommon a thing as gentlemen suppose; systematic men frequently take up the whole law, and with its amendments and alterations reduce it into one act. I am not, however, very solicitous about the form, provided the business is but well completed.

   Cong. RegisterThomas Lloyd, comp., The Congressional
          Register; or, History of the Proceedings and Debates of the First House of
          Representatives … (2 vols.; New York, 1789; Evans 22203–4)., II, 167–68 (also reported fully in Gazette of the U.S., 15 Aug. 1789). A motion to append the amendments to the Constitution was defeated.