piebro/osm-data huggingface dataset:
Nakaner (2021-08-24 08:40:47+00:00): Hallo,

ich hatte schon gestern deine Löschungen und Änderungen rückgängig gemacht. Ich war nicht der erste Mapper. Schon vor mir hat Nutzer Radelspass einen Teil der Wege, die du gelöscht hast, neu erfasst, weil sie gefehlt haben.

Editwars, also das abwechselnde, sich gegenseitig umkehrende Ändern bzw. Löschen/Wiederherstlelen sind in OSM unerwünscht. OSM ist ein Gemeinschaftsprojekt. Bitte versuche dich, mit anderen Mappern zu einigen und respektiere die Mappingstandards (u.a. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Good_practice). Anderes Verhalten ist mit den Grundwerten des Projekts unvereinbar.

Es bestehen erhebliche Zweifel an der Zuverlässigkeit deiner Beträge. Insbesondere deine Behauptung eines Betretungsverbots stehen nach derzeitigem Stand im Widerspruch zu den Betretungsrechten für die Wege im Forst und der freien Feldflur.

Eine ausführliche Begründung findest du unter https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/110123245

Viele Grüße

Michael
eggie (2021-08-23 17:58:50+00:00): Dag Martin..Feedback..  Wanneer het de naam is van de woning mag deze op de gebouwomtrek. dan zal het ook renderen op de kaart. Nu zal het niets doen.

MVG
eggie
Martin Wolf in Weesp (2021-08-23 18:05:27+00:00): Oh, bedankt voor de tip! Maar als ik op dit moment naar de huidige woning aan het Vivaldipad kijk, dan zie ik de naam daar wel staan? Terwijl het daar toch ook een "name" property van het adres-punt was en niet van de omtrek. Of komt dat omdat het daar tevens als B&B gemarkeerd was?

OK, ik ga even uitzoeken of het met JOSM lukt om dit nog aan de bestaande changeset toe te voegen of dat het dan een nieuwe changeset wordt..
Martin Wolf in Weesp (2021-08-23 18:10:51+00:00): Gedaan. Het is een nieuwe changeset geworden.

Oh, of had ik hem tevens op de adres-node moeten laten staan?
Martin Wolf in Weesp (2021-08-23 18:14:36+00:00): Oh, en de source-tag staat nog steeds op BAG, ondanks dat deze laatste wijziging niet van het BAG afkomstig is. Had ik dat samen met mijn wijziging moeten veranderen? (Zelfde geldt voor het Vivaldipad.)
eggie (2021-08-23 18:16:20+00:00): Klopt. conclusie juist. . zodra er een amenity= of office=  staat dan rendert de naam op een node..  alleen name= doet niets op een node. 
Het is nu goed.. Paar keer ctrl-f5 en dan zie je effect.
Gr eggie
eggie (2021-08-23 18:18:28+00:00): Die source=BAG kun je gewoon zo laten. Die is nodig voor periodieke updates vanuit de BAG (Kadaster)
Martin Wolf in Weesp (2021-08-23 18:25:40+00:00): Perfect, bedankt voor de hulp!
rik_ (2022-04-24 12:28:04+00:00): Hallo,

kann jemand mal bei Gelehenheit überprüfen, ob mit https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9029451752 wirklich ein Hydrant mitten auf dem Acker steht – schaut mir nach einem Fehler in der Position aus …
grossmachnow (2022-04-25 08:53:29+00:00): Da ist ein Außenlager von Bär und Ollenroth entstanden.
grossmachnow (2022-04-25 08:55:14+00:00): Guck mal bei google Satellitenbild.

Gruß
rik_ (2022-04-25 09:20:53+00:00): Hallo,

danke - das erklärt es natürlich :-)

Viele Grüße

rik
rik_ (2022-04-25 09:28:11+00:00): (Habe die `landuse` angepasst, jetzt steht der Hydrant da nicht mehr verlassen in der Gegend herum)
Marmanvii (2021-08-23 18:04:16+00:00): Hola, en ID puedes cuadrar las casas seleccionando una y presionando la letra Q.
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/110130327
EinKonstanzer (2021-09-16 19:12:54+00:00): Auf https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/975755261 liegen Busrouten. Und du hast eine Einbahnstraße draus gemacht! Da ich die genaue Verkehrführung und Beschilderung an der Stelle nicht kenne ändere ich da auch nichts. Sei so freundlich und schau dir das nochmals an!

Und auch hier hast du wieder kreatives access-tagging gemacht. Ich habe es entfernt. Access-tagging ist recht kompliziert... Hier zur Lektüre: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:access

Und nochmals die bitte das mit den "no-u-turn" zu unterlassen. Ich habe alle 5 gelöscht.
StKe (2021-09-20 09:11:28+00:00): Die Busse dürfen dort nur Richtung Osten (Stockumer Kirchstr.) ausfahren. Insofern sollte es stimmen. Die Busse fahren nur an der Nordseite herein. 

Eigentlich verwende ich "No turn" nur noch dort, wo auch keine Radfahrer mehr wenden dürfen. 

Ich schaue es mir später mal genauer an. Bin noch im Urlaub.
StKe (2021-09-28 17:46:20+00:00): So ganz falsch war das gar nicht. Die Oneway Buslinie stimmte tatsächlich nicht. Die zahlreichen U-Turns sind jetzt aber auf jeden Fall wieder falsch. Die hatte ich genau richtig gesetzt. Jetzt habe ich aber keinen Bock mehr, schon wieder da hin zu fahren und das zu ändern.
canfe (2021-09-12 08:48:12+00:00): Ho corretto "strada prevalentemente residenziale". Come da wiki, in Italia non esiste. E' un errore comune. Buona  mappatura.
Marmanvii (2021-08-23 18:01:18+00:00): Hola, corriste por error el Estadio Municipal Hualañé y quedó cortado por la mitad.
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/110130951
DressyPear4 (2021-08-23 20:22:51+00:00): Olá, vias não devem ser adicionadas umas por cima das outras, veja como adicionar ciclovia em
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle
Veja também que o local já possui uma rota de bicicleta caso não possua ciclovia física
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10645864
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/110131037
Exe19 (2021-08-25 09:53:18+00:00): Te drogi zawierają przejścia rowerowe.
olo81 (2021-08-25 10:59:26+00:00): Na orto ich jeszcze nie było.
Jak będę przed kompem poprawie
Exe19 (2021-08-25 11:30:37+00:00): Tylko że poprzednio były dobrze, niektóre nawet edytowanie przez Ciebie.
Na ortofotomapie 2020 z SIP ścieżki widać.
olo81 (2021-08-25 11:41:28+00:00): Wczoraj miałem w edytorze odpalone kilka warstw orto z różnych lat i chyba któraś się przywiesiła.
eggie (2021-08-23 18:21:20+00:00): Klopt
SekeRob (2021-08-23 18:11:21+00:00): See map note https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2817764
SekeRob (2021-08-23 18:16:35+00:00): Yup, resolved again.
Marmanvii (2021-08-23 18:48:20+00:00): Hola, creo que está mal tageado, ya que está como amenity=hospital y healthcare=hospital, deberías dejarlo como estaba antes, con landuse=cemetery  y quitarle los tags de hospital.
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/110131937
rab (2021-08-23 19:53:36+00:00): Hallo,
wurde da was wegen der Klassifizierung verworfen?
uliwanne (2021-08-24 14:34:15+00:00): Ja, auf Anforderung von pedr0feria
klassifikation überprüfen!
Frans S (2021-08-24 11:21:18+00:00): Hello again
Also this changeset is very inaccurate mapped.
Reverted mappings
Best regards
VictorIE (2022-10-24 22:36:10+00:00): Hi,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/275536195

Is not:name=tr a typo?
skifans (2022-10-24 22:40:28+00:00): Yeah it is - thanks. Fixed in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/128016695
skifans (2022-10-24 22:43:05+00:00): Just noticed you have added a Weir at this location (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1078408450/history) - is that was this is? Makes sense and must have been overflowing when I went - could delete this? Before I added this it was tagged as a bridge + track which was clearly wrong but I didn't know what it should be.
VictorIE (2022-10-25 03:52:27+00:00): It seems the area to the west is prone to flooding, as is common in Fermanagh. Using a weir to manage that wouldn't be unusual.

Historically (see the "Ireland British War Office 1:25k GSGS 3906" imagery, dates from about 1896) there was a footbridge. In the "Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta" imagery (dates from about 2012), it looks like a bridge suitable for vehicles, about 4 metres wide, mounted on top of the weir. In the newer images, it appears to be removed. It looks like there is a weir, but it could also be a ford. 

abandoned:highway=* is another option.

What does "Irish Bridge" mean?
skifans (2022-10-25 16:06:09+00:00): Right - good spot on the old map. I've dug out the photos I took of the area when I went and I really don't think its a ford - there is a significant drop down to the river. Much more likely a weir.

I've also got a photo of a map in the nearby Cladagh Glen Scout Centre (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/556871937) that shows the Ulster Way crossing the river here - though no specifics on how or date on the map. I think it may have been diverted away from here as part of https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/environment/get-your-boots-on-the-ulster-way-is-back-on-the-map-28496605.html Though issues with the route where reported going back earlier: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1882208.stm

There are the photos - https://imgur.com/a/0nuGckb (from August 2021) - the water level in the river was defiantly quite high. But there was still a significant drop down. The gates where still in place though. I think its most likely the bridge has been removed and there is just no way to cross now (unless one has been added back since then?) but I suppose there could also be some type of removable structure?

Yeah I think abandoned:highway=* would be good - should make sure it dosn't get added back with aerial imagery.

Looks like Low-water crossing is the preferred name but I was using Irish Bridge to refer to a bridge which is explicitly designed to be submerged at levels of high water. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bridge#Values https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-water_crossing - looking back at the photo though even if such a thing was there there would be no reasonable way onto it.
VictorIE (2026-06-16 11:05:45+00:00): Hi,

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/184176160

I've tagged it as  demolished:*=*
Frans S (2021-08-24 11:28:51+00:00): Hello. See my previous messages
Best regards
eggie (2021-08-23 19:21:47+00:00): Dag Mats.. Xou je willen aangeven wat je bedoelt met 'Fiepstunnel' en waarom zou dat een attractie zijn.
MVG
eggie
eggie (2021-08-23 19:22:05+00:00): type Xou>Zou
MatsBr (2021-08-23 19:41:32+00:00): De Fiepstunnel is een fietstunnel met allemaal tekeningen van Fiep Westendorp (tekenaar Jip en Janneke) op de wand. Fiep komt uit Zaltbommel en alles wat met haar te maken heeft wordt actief gepromoot door de gemeente Zaltbommel. Wij hadden erg veel moeite om deze tunnel te vinden. Hij zit onder de N322.
MatsBr (2021-08-23 19:41:46+00:00): ZIe ook https://www.bd.nl/zaltbommel/fieptunnel-in-zaltbommel-krijgt-er-een-kunstwerk-bij~acda9d89/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fduckduckgo.com%2F
eggie (2021-08-23 19:47:45+00:00): Ahhh.. oke...   Tja dat moet er wel op natuurlijk.
Denk dan eerder aan  tourism=artwork https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dartwork

Zet er een description= ...    bij anders denken medemappers wat is dat nu?

Mapse,
eggie
Frans S (2021-08-24 12:25:39+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Most buildings have a rather rectangular shape. ( or round)
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 11:00:14+00:00): Hello again
Non of your mappings are accetable. Reverted this changeset
Best regards
Frans S (2021-08-24 12:14:30+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 10:58:26+00:00): Hello
See my previous message
Best regards
Frans S (2021-08-24 09:04:52+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Dodko (2021-08-23 19:35:41+00:00): Pozri si ako sa dajú robiť budovy v JOSM
http://proxy.freemap.sk/minvskaddress/JOSM_budovy_20210425.mp4
Martin Lizuch (2021-08-23 19:55:49+00:00): To vyzera dost dobre. Idem to postudovat.
Frans S (2021-08-24 09:26:56+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 09:03:55+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 10:31:33+00:00): Hello. 
Normally we thank you for your  mappings, but here, you missed the goal.
your mapping are crudely and quickly drawn
The idea is that each building is drawn precisely .i.e. the roof line is followed exactly.
Please read the instructions and introduction lessons
DressyPear4 (2021-08-23 19:59:03+00:00): Olá, não adicione linhas sem atribuir tags à elas como nesse exemplo
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/975784932
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/110133698
Hanan Tikveša (2021-08-23 19:24:02+00:00): Why did you edit in Greece and in Netherlands?
Please don't do it anymore.
Frans S (2021-08-25 09:01:34+00:00): Hello. Thanks for joining the project.
I noticed that you are a new mapper.
Some remarks about how to map
Each building needs to be mapped individually. 
Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Most Buildings have a rectangular shape and  needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square each building with the Q key of the iDeditor.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners.
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
SekeRob (2021-08-23 19:17:16+00:00): yup, just 2 meters. Just why iD is not warning about these unclosed ends "resolved:mismatched_geometry:unclosed_multipolygon_part "is beyond me.
Lejun (2021-11-02 16:00:04+00:00): Is it necessary to keep both the helipad node (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9029619703) and area (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/168962131)?
Frans S (2021-08-24 10:51:29+00:00): Hello. See my previous message
Frans S (2021-08-24 10:48:54+00:00): Hello. See my previous messages
Frans S (2021-08-24 12:28:01+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 11:44:02+00:00): Hello again
I reverted this changeset.
Best regards
ottwiz (2021-08-23 19:34:47+00:00): I also used Esri World Imagery for imagery.
jumbanho (2021-08-24 10:40:14+00:00): Welcome to OSM and thank you for efforts in making the map better!
user_3022894 (2021-08-24 10:51:44+00:00): Hi bielebog,

danke für deine Info zu Kfz Beckmann hier.

Kurze Nachfrage: Muss der Node https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3521597333 dann noch raus?

Viele Grüße
Lukas
bielebog (2021-08-25 05:33:43+00:00): Auf der ggüberlöiegenden Straßenseite hatte ich gar nicht geschaut. Da die nun lt. Homepage und Realität in Hausnummer 9 residieren, hab ich den neuen Node nun mal gelöscht und den alten über die Straße gezogen, mit neuen Daten, wegen Chronologie-Erhalt und und so. Ob an die ursprüngliche Halle nun noch weiterhin ein operator=KFZ-Technik Beckmann gehört, kann ich nicht sagen.
user_3022894 (2021-08-27 14:14:47+00:00): Ok., super, vielen Dank schon mal. Das mit dem Erhalt der History ist wirklich sinnvoll, das stimmt.
Frans S (2021-08-24 10:46:03+00:00): Hello. See my previous message .
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 12:00:53+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 12:32:58+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping here
You mapped a number of very irregular shaps which are no buildings. 
Buildings show a shadow next to it and are mostly rather rectangular.
I removed these mappings
Best regards
mariotomo (2021-08-23 20:03:01+00:00): hola. "Correcciones", pero estás borrando información de manera sistemática. porqué?
mariotomo (2022-06-23 16:32:22+00:00): Rafael Avila Coya te escribió el 24 de agosto del 2021, de parte del DWG, urgiéndote a que te pusieras en contacto conmigo, y mejor diría yo, con el resto de los editores OSM.
En la misma fecha me escribió:
»Esperaremos un tiempo prudencial a que conteste, antes de pensar en otras medidas para llevar este asunto a buen puerto."
boh?
Frans S (2021-08-28 14:53:11+00:00): Hello Thanks for mapping here.
Precise mapped.
just a remark.
Tag buildings always as building=yes

Did you noticed the "issue triangle" on the right hand menu in iDeditor?  When a yellow or red dot pops up means that there are some issues. Mostly not squared buildings or connected nodes to other features. Please correct your own work before uploading it. 
Please view this video about common New mappers Mistakes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs5wX592E1o&amp;t=2s
Best regards
ftrebien (2025-03-11 01:03:06+00:00): Os limites de velocidade nas rampas de entrada e saída certamente não é 80 km/h, é no máximo a mesma velocidade das vias municipais (60 km/h) como costuma ser em rampas de entroncamentos rodoviários.
Frans S (2021-08-24 09:18:10+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Please map buildings more accurate. Your mappings are often oversized and includes the yard around a building. Just map the buildings themselves
-
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
Frans S (2021-08-24 11:37:33+00:00): Hello. Thanks for mapping on this task.
A remark.
Each rectangular building needs to be squared. See the task instructions.
Please square all rectangular buildings with the Q key of the iDeditor.
Most of the buildings are strickt rectangular.
 A remark here. When your corners are not close enough to the 90 degrees angle the Issue triangle on the right hand menu don't react so try to map more precise and close to the 90 degrees corners
When parts of a building are hidden by trees, extrapolate the rooflines rather than following the treelines.

See this picture (example) Review own work in iDeditor.jpg

Did you have seen these pages ?
https://learnosm.org/en/hot-tips/

Best regards and success with future mappings
mike140 (2021-08-25 12:29:10+00:00): Удалять точку магазина не стоит - можно заменить тег на disused:shop=supermarket, а когда откроется другой магазин - опять поменять теги - так сохранится история точки
псячими_стежками (2021-10-04 03:07:50+00:00): А чи можна переносити існуючу точку за кілька кварталів чи в межах міста? В даному випадку на місце закритого магазину переїхало відділення Нової Пошти, яке раніше було на іншому кінці вулиці. Як правильно зробити: видалити точку магазину і перенести існуючу точку Нової Пошти чи міняти інформацію в самих точках, але не переміщати їх?
mike140 (2021-10-04 04:42:10+00:00): Перемещать не нужно - только менять теги существующих точек - так сохранится информация о том что там было раньше