piebro/osm-data huggingface dataset:
Britzz (2020-05-17 17:35:51+00:00): Bienvenue dans OpenStreetMap.
Vous avez "souhaité que quelqu'un vérifie vos modifications" : c'est tout bon !

Pour bien démarrer : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:WikiProject_France/bienvenue
N'hésitez pas à poser des questions à la suite de ce commentaires ou rejoindre les autres canaux de discussion (cf. lien supra).
Bonne poursuite, prenez plaisir à contribuer à OSM !
            ---
            #REVIEWED_GOOD #OSMCHA
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85094740
user_2066394 (2020-05-12 16:59:20+00:00): statt löschen gerne mit disused: markieren
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:disused:
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85094768
literan (2020-05-12 18:05:44+00:00): why did you do that? it doesn'tcorresponds to our russian road agreement: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/RU:Highway_classification
literan (2020-05-12 18:03:17+00:00): access=private означает, что пешком там тоже нельзя. Действительно так?
meugr (2020-05-12 19:17:50+00:00): Нет, ограничения только на авто.
Поправил теги, теперь вроде верно
Jordi MF (2020-05-12 16:28:45+00:00): Todo está correcto y, efectivamente, la etiqueta "operator" sirve para indicar la empresa que se encarga del servicio: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:Key:operator
No se usan abreviaturas. En Valencia, la empresa que se encarga de la autobuses públicos municipales sería "operator= Empresa Municipal de Transports de València"
Pero, por ejemplo, un instituto público sería "operator=Generalitat Valenciana".
jemily1 (2020-05-12 18:33:55+00:00): Esta parada la usan 2 operadores que pertenecen al GRUPO VECTALIA: MARCO Y SÁNCHEZ, TRANSPORTES URBANOS, S.A. (Masatusa) (líneas 03 y 03N) y Automóviles la Alcoyana, S.A (línea 26) ¿Pongo los dos? -
Jordi MF (2020-05-12 22:59:31+00:00): Sí, separadas por un punto y coma (;) y usando mayúsculas y minúsculas
jemily1 (2020-05-13 15:56:57+00:00): Tras echar un vistazo a otras paradas de autobús situadas en la zona centro, y viendo que la mayoría tienen puesto en la pestaña operador Subus, pondré yo también Subus en la pestaña operador 

En la pestaña red pondré lo siguiente: Transporte Alicante Metropolitano (TAM)
hsc666 (2020-05-13 18:20:09+00:00): Hallo christoph AGFKBbg und willkommen bei OSM!

Ich habe mir Deine Änderungen angesehen und vermute, dass Du über Pokemon Go zu OSM gekommen bist. Leider haben wir immer wieder mit Leuten Probleme, die sich durch bestimmte Änderungen Vorteile in diesem Spiel verschaffen wollen. OSM ist aber kein Spiel, sonder möchte die Wirklichkeit abbilden. Menschen verlassen sich auf die Richtigkeit der Daten. Weder Skateparks noch Spielplätze sind Parks. Falls Du ernsthaft bei OSM mithelfen möchtest, sieh Dir bitte im Wiki an, was wir Dinge eintragen, z.B. einen Park: <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dpark>. Ich habe Deine Einträge entsprechend korrigiert.

VG
hsc666
NikAlmino (2020-05-15 13:22:20+00:00): Essa edição faz o mínimo sentido. Creio que você não tenha conhecimento suficiente para reclassificar essa vias.

A rua México está passando por obras de drenagem de águas pluviais que obrigatoriamente precedem a pavimentação. Deve ser primary.

A Avenida Belmiro de Albuquerque já está pavimentada, porém intransponível. Existem buracos no asfalto para construção de bueiros, valas fundas para construção de guias e sem iluminação pública. Deve ser secondary.
erickdeoliveiraleal (2020-05-15 13:28:17+00:00): NikAlmino, realmente posso ter errado, me desculpe, se puder corrigir, estava fazendo uma revisão em vias faltantes ou incorretas de todas cidades do Centro oeste e norte, posso ter me equivocado em algumas, agora ja terminei, também deixei varias notas onde faltam vias e nao pude fazer. Obrigado.
NikAlmino (2020-05-15 13:45:34+00:00): Beleza, ja foram revertidas
elgolfo (2020-05-13 12:50:06+00:00): --- 
#REVIEWED_GOOD #OSMCHA
            ---
            #REVIEWED_GOOD #OSMCHA
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85096189
complete_gth (2020-05-30 17:57:12+00:00): Müsste tunnel=culvert nicht an den Bach ? 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/803022417
czubi (2020-05-30 18:03:44+00:00): Lt. Wiki ja. Ändere es bitte mal.
czubi (2020-05-30 18:08:17+00:00): habs fix selbst gemacht, danke.
user_11166885 (2020-05-12 17:13:59+00:00): Questo gruppo di modifiche è la rimozione del vandalismo del gruppo di modifiche 78963217.
user_10474167 (2020-05-12 17:17:46+00:00): ma allora ce l'hai con me?!
user_11166885 (2020-05-12 17:27:38+00:00): Non è che ce l'ho con te. Sei semplicemente un vandalo!
user_10474167 (2020-05-12 17:58:09+00:00): NON TI PERMETTERE MAI PIU'! MAI PIU'!
ikopanjirukmana (2023-06-12 04:19:49+00:00): Hello, 
could you please explain why you changed building's tags in this area to destroyed:building?
VLD306 (2023-06-16 22:56:21+00:00): Hello, I added destroyed: tags since the buildings appear to have been destroyed in recent imagery (Maxar and Bing) when compared to older Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta Imagery.  I used these lifecycle tags to preserve the old data and that the buildings once existed.  Let me know if you have further questions.  Thanks!
ikopanjirukmana (2023-07-04 06:32:51+00:00): It's something new for me to know about the lifecycle. But is it possible to just remove the buildings if we see in the recent imagery doesn't appear again?
VLD306 (2023-07-06 15:48:36+00:00): It would be possible to just remove the buildings, but I think it may be a good idea to preserve the data.  One issue with removing them completely is someone may look at older imagery and draw them back in.  Here's a link about the lifecycle tags if you haven't seen it yet - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix
dktue (2020-05-12 20:21:15+00:00): Danke für's Einzeichnen! :-)

Allerdings sind in der Fläche nicht alle Abfahrten enthalten (im Süden fehlt eine).
dktue (2020-05-13 08:50:44+00:00): Ich habe es korrigiert:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/85132278
Nurum (2020-05-13 11:56:28+00:00): Danke für den Hinweis und das Ausbessern. Werde in Zukunft besser darauf achten alle Abfahrten zu erwischen.
gileri (2020-05-13 17:16:48+00:00): Hello,

When adding private swimming pools, can you add "access=private" to distinguish them from public swimming pool ?

I feel like homeowners wouldn't like random people coming to their house to check out the pool :)
sebltm (2020-05-13 18:57:55+00:00): Ah yes of course sorry! I thought I had!
gileri (2020-05-14 07:52:48+00:00): Hi, I added access=private to those swimming pools here : https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/85184858
mariotomo (2020-05-14 13:21:21+00:00): privados … será que puedes indicar la posición de las barreras, si es que hay barreras?
Alvarado2510 (2020-05-14 17:30:38+00:00): Saludos, si ya esta editado, tuve que usar ID por que en Josm, aun no estoy muy practico.
mariotomo (2020-05-14 17:42:28+00:00): quizás quieres poner access=private a todas las calles dentro de la hacienda?  y sabrás si hay otra barrera del otro lado?
KarmaCleaner (2020-05-12 20:21:18+00:00): You deleted several tags for no reason. As a "new mapper", you should not change sensitive elements like turning restrictions.

Hai eliminato diversi tag senza motivo. Come "nuovo mappatore", non dovresti modificare elementi sensibili come le restrizioni di svolta.
user_11166885 (2020-05-12 20:35:06+00:00): Sorry. I remedy now!
owenward (2020-05-12 17:29:47+00:00): How unfortunate, this has clashed with a very large edit I was doing in the area. And this building is my home! The irony.
owenward (2020-05-12 17:39:31+00:00): Is there any way you could undo this changeset? If not I will probably be able to find a workaround.
BCNorwich (2020-05-12 18:04:32+00:00): Hi, 
Will you be removing the duplicated building outline contained in the multipolygon relation?

This is why it's not a good idea to make large change-sets.

I just tried to revert the changeset but it results up conflicts and warnings. I would think that you have made some changes from when I made that last changeset. 

Do you want me to try and resolve the conflicts?

Regards Bernard.
owenward (2020-05-12 18:09:30+00:00): I have removed the duplicated outline. I managed to resolve the conflicts thankfully, had no idea how large the changeset was until it was too late!

I have also included courtyard (whereas I had previously put 'garden') and have added entrances on the exterior. Courtyard is more appropriate.

Thank you and happy mapping.
BCNorwich (2020-05-12 18:22:31+00:00): Hi, All looks good now.

Just a couple of pointers to maybe help in the future. If you get a similar problem again cancel your upload and try to get the interfering changes reverted before making any upload, else you end up with conflicts (possibly compounded conflicts). In the mean time JOSM allows for you to save your changeset layer and upload it after you've got problems sorted out.

Lastly for entrances it's better to tag entrance=yes (main, service, whatever) and ref=B, You then get a proper icon instead of a dot.

Best Regards Bernard.
owenward (2020-05-13 12:19:49+00:00): Hi,

Thank you for the tip about entrances, it is very useful!

Owen
Florimondable (2020-05-18 08:06:53+00:00): Bonjour, Pour la rue Parmentier, sur la vue aérienne on voit une bande cyclable en contre sens et pas une piste cyclable, confirmes-tu qu'il y a bien une nouvelle piste cyclable ?
Montreuil01 (2020-05-18 08:13:02+00:00): Bonjour, 
c'est bien une bande cyclable sur Parmentier, et une piste cyclable sur une partie d'Etienne Marcel.
Florimondable (2020-05-18 08:17:32+00:00): Ok, dans ce cas il ne faut pas dessiner à part la bande cyclable (pas de highway=cycleway) car sinon ça devient une piste, la bonne façon de faire c'est cycleway:left=lane qui est déjà présent.
Pour Étienne Marcel vue que la piste remplace la bande il faut retirer le tag cycleway:left=lane sur le way de la route.
Cela se voit facilement sur https://www.cyclosm.org/#map=19/48.85815/2.42977/cyclosm par exemple

Je te laisse corriger ?
Montreuil01 (2020-05-18 08:18:38+00:00): Absolument, je m'en occupe! 
Merci pour le retour.
Montreuil01 (2020-05-18 09:03:06+00:00): J'ai une question, sur Etienne Marcel, entre Parmentier et Chanzy, du coup faut que je supprime la Cycleway car sur cette portion c'est une bande?
Florimondable (2020-05-18 16:14:41+00:00): Oui, je l'ai mise en tant que route en construction me disant que c'était peut-être un projet de la ville ?
Luzandro (2020-05-16 07:20:24+00:00): Hallo Emmerich,
du hattest den Feldweg tlw. über den schon vorhandenen eingetragen, was auch vom Editor bemängelt wurde. Ich habe das korrigiert.
LG Andreas
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85097841
ftcat (2020-05-13 06:18:03+00:00): Hi Chris_Pakenham,

I think a recent edit of yours has broken the administrative boundary relations for the Kariba and Hurungwe.
Chris_Pakenham (2020-05-13 07:07:36+00:00): Whoever did this boundary has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.  I have the actual Act and legislation designating this boundary and will be doing it properly.  My email is cjp@ciemerc.com.  I can send you the act if you want to see.  Your edit was creating confusion down here as there is a current PPP on offer for Charara and they are taking your lines as gospel...
ftcat (2020-05-13 07:25:22+00:00): Relax I just noticed the break on the OSM Inspector site http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/. My user name is only associated with the relation because I made edits to relations that overlap on the Zambian side and use the Zambezi as a common border, I try not to edit outside of areas I know and made no changes to the boundaries of the relation internal to Zim. There are a few remote German based users that make or have made edits to this region based on travels they have made here as tourists I presume. No need to send the act.
rab (2020-05-13 21:32:57+00:00): Hello,
It is only a rough outline drawn after a cc0 Wikipedia image.  Most borders in OSM have no official accuracy, but they are still needed for navigation and geolocation.   However, if someone with local knowledge is able to improve the geometry, please continue. If the border relations of both districts remain broken, someone will sooner or later restore the deleted ways.
ftcat (2020-05-14 05:14:17+00:00): Just a final word. If the Zim acts describing district boundaries are anything like the Zambian ones they can be a little vague with sections like "following a line in a south east direction to the junction with an unnamed stream and the Zambezi River, along this stream for 30 km and then in a north western direction for 50 km to a point just west of dambo X..." Where boundaries follow the course of braided rivers, of which there are many in western Zambia, this can be even more confusing. Add to that that the majority of mappers do not take into account imagery offsets and the differences in alignment between the images used, which in some cases is considerable for finer details and you can see OSM can never be considered "gospel".
Chris_Pakenham (2020-05-14 06:04:09+00:00): Hi, These are boundaries described in an Act of parliament as I said.  They actually use UTM Grid References and the major points. so it goes like this "
from this point UTM??? down this river to the high water level on Lake Kariba at this point UTM??? etc etc
Chris_Pakenham (2020-05-14 06:07:08+00:00): I also faced some problems last night when I started the line.  There seems to be an offset problem between the Act and the Bing Image that I was using to trace/check the line.  So today I will go and get the original map that they refered to and check the projection.  Im guessing it will be Clark and the Bing will be using WSG84.  Hoping that sorts out the offset
ftcat (2020-05-14 07:48:33+00:00): I suspect when the original district boundaries were created back in the day the act was more precise as per what you describe, Zambia recently created new districts and those are not as precise.

As regards the offset, Zambian maps use ARC 1950 Zambia as the datum and if you use WGS 84 on your GPS it will not correspond with the Ordinance Survey Maps, I personally know somebody who told a Zambian government surveyor that the Zambian maps were inaccurate, he felt a fool when the surveyor took his GPS unit and set the datum to ARC 1950 and hey presto it all lined up.

It would be interesting to be able to calculate the Bing offset for this region but suspect as new imagery becomes available the offset will be out of date, you see an offset at the border of two tiles from the same image provider sometimes and I have seen where mappers have put a kink in an obviously straight road because of the mismatch in imagery.

As an aside and off topic I would be interested in what you think regarding the tagging of rivers and streams in this part of the world. I consider all rivers here to be seasonal and some both seasonal and intermittent ie they will only run in the rains but even then only after a heavy rainfall, this is particularly true in the Valley and probably most of southern Zambia while in the north of Zambia they would slow to a trickle or less in the dry but generally flow all wet season so not intermittent.
IgorEliezer (2020-05-13 16:40:01+00:00): Contribuição útil e bem-vinda!
Sugestão: você pode colocar a descrição curta do local (ex.: "Excelente barzinho em Itu com x, y, z.") no campo descrição. Se o campo não estiver aparecendo, você pode adicioná-lo na função "Adicionar campo:" no menu esquerdo.
O campo "Nota" não é nota de qualidade, ela serve para avisar e informar outros mapeadores. Ela não parece o público.
Recomendo baixar qualquer aplicativo que usa o OpenStreetMap nas próximas semanas para ver como ficou.
            ---
            #REVIEWED_GOOD #OSMCHA
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85098204
eggie (2020-05-13 19:50:15+00:00): Zie commentaar over openingstijden op andere changeset
eggie (2020-05-12 18:42:50+00:00): Welkom bij OpenStreetMap. Ik heb een uitgebreid welkomstbericht met wat handige tips en links gestuurd als privébericht.
review.. Alle gebouwen zijn import vanuit het kadaster en als zodanig precies ingemeten. beter niets aan veranderen. Nooit naar de daken kijken.. dat is niet waar het gebouw staat. Het is een schuin genomen luchtfoto.
Gebruik als het even kan de adresnodes die al aanwezig zijn. Ik zal wat herstellen. 

MVG,
Eggie
user_2066394 (2020-05-12 18:52:13+00:00): statt löschen besser mit disused: markieren
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:disused:
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            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85098480
fberthold (2020-05-13 10:46:18+00:00): Laut https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Key:disused für Objekte die vorübergehend geschlossen sind, so verstehe ich das.
Anyway, rückgängig kann ich glaub nicht ohne Hilfe.
user_2066394 (2020-05-13 10:59:12+00:00): "disused:" kennzeichnet den aktuellen leerstand bzw. die letzte bekannte nutzung, dient also mehr der nachvollziehbarkeit. aktuell ist die node einfach komplett weg.

habs mal experimentell nochmal ergänzt, mein hinweis war mehr eine anregung für zukünftige änderungen :-)
gutes gelingen weiterhin
PT-53 (2020-08-31 11:49:43+00:00): Hallo bergfrei,
steht vor diesem Feldweg
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/165213522
wirklich ein Verkehrszeichen # 250 ?
Dann dürften dort ja nicht eimal Landwirte mit ihren Traktoren fahren.
Schaust Du Dir das nochmal an?
Fragende Grüße
bergfrei (2020-09-11 15:44:00+00:00): Hallo PT-53,
schaue ich mir nochmal an, auch wenn ich mir ziemlich sichern bin, das es kein Zusatzschild "Landtwirtschaflicher Verkehr frei" gab.
Gruß bergfrei
bergfrei (2020-10-04 11:27:04+00:00): Hallo PT-53,
bin heute an der besagten Stelle vorbei gekommen, hier ist nur das Schild 250 aufgestellt  (ohne Zusatzschild). 
Gruß bergfrei
Frans S (2020-07-16 13:00:53+00:00): Hello. thanks for mapping.
please pay attention on the issue triangle on the right hand menu and solve the issues
All crossing roads needs to be connected to each other by a nod on the crossing.
Best regards and keep mapping
Saikat Maiti (2023-04-13 04:19:26+00:00): Hello Ajeng Sharietta,
Thank you for your contribution to OpenStreetMap. When you are mapping buildings, please add a polygon for individual structures.
Please find this tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1YJV6I_rhY

Building: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building

Happy Mapping!
bbmiller (2020-05-13 12:20:20+00:00): Um do these streets really not have names? That seems highly unlikely. Unless you can back up this change, I'm going to re-add the names. Remember that the map you edit is the map everyone in the world sees.
            ---
            
            Published using OSMCha: https://osmcha.org/changesets/85099403
mueschel (2020-05-15 08:59:35+00:00): Hi,
could you please review this POI? There are several keys that are not used in any other place. Please check the wiki to find common tags!

Jan
Tyrese Wormely (2020-05-12 17:51:37+00:00): *Truth or Consequences, NM
WoodWoseWulf (2020-05-12 21:49:58+00:00): Hi Jared,

Welcome to OSM!

In this edit, you pulled one of the nodes in the adjacent parking lot into the park you added. Now the two features intersect each other.

I also can't find any information that verifies your edit - what is your source? The buildings and park don't appear on Bing Aerial Imagery (which your changeset lists as the imagery you used) and I've been unable to find any reference to a Sherman Park in Johnson City.

Some of your other changesets also have comments, so you might want to check those out.

Please reach out if you need any help!
IlBano (2020-05-23 14:45:17+00:00): Benvenuti su OSM.
In questo changeset Via Fiume Orta è stata cambiata da strada "agricola" a secondaria che in ambitro OSM definisce "Una strada di collegamento tra piccole città" (si veda  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Tag:highway%3Dsecondary). Ho corretto l'errore lasciando i tag da voi aggiunti. Se avete dubbi potete commentare qui o scrivermi in privato.

IlBano
jamaps (2020-05-16 22:07:23+00:00): I like these address edits! much better than before
Nate Wessel (2020-05-18 12:57:34+00:00): Thanks!
marczoutendijk (2020-06-10 09:41:38+00:00): Je schrijft bij al deze paden:
"FIXME: chcek if really exists, can't be seen from canal side".
Als je die paden niet kunt zien, wat is dan je bron?
Allroads (2020-08-30 23:50:07+00:00): Deze paden waren al ingetekend en voorzien van een FIXME 11 jaar geleden

https://pewu.github.io/osm-history/#/way/7206417

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/7206417/history
RicoElectrico (2020-05-12 18:51:30+00:00): Wkradł się błąd w edycję, przeciągnięty węzeł ścieżki i przyklejony do drogi 100m dalej. Wycofałem to.

Podgląd edycji: https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=85100874

Bardzo polecam przejść do końca samouczek dostępny w edytorze, pokazuje on m.in. jak edytować drogi.
Elbe-Seitenkanal (2020-05-12 19:04:18+00:00): Why have you deleted quite a lot of ways? https://overpass-api.de/achavi/?changeset=85101071
az_az (2020-05-12 20:37:31+00:00): Hello Elbe-Seitenkanal

I have tried to edit the errors in the previous drawing but the errors are many, I preferred drawing again on the latest satellites from Bing

Now the full drawing has been completed and I apologize for that. Thank you for your interest.
user_5359 (2020-05-13 14:54:12+00:00): Hello! Why did you add a status information new_added=yes  to the data? Please clean up the data.
Colin Smale (2020-05-12 20:38:42+00:00): Hi, thanks for adding these places. When you add them to admin boundaries (civil parishes) could you please make sure you set the "role" to "admin_centre"?
czubi (2020-05-14 15:14:31+00:00): hallo heldz, bist du sicher das du den Abhang vom Meisenstein auf die richtige Seite gezeichnet hast? So wie es jetzt ist liegt der Gipfel unten auf der Talseite. Aufn welcher Seite ist denn "Tal"?
heldz (2020-05-14 15:22:58+00:00): Sorry, hab's korrigiert. Danke für's Kontrollieren!
czubi (2020-05-14 15:26:05+00:00): jetzt ist es noch falscher ;-). In welche richtung zeigt denn der Abhang? SW?
heldz (2020-05-14 15:30:21+00:00): Es geht von NO nach SW runter. Da man von hinten im Wald (NO) bis an die Kante wandern kann, habe ich erst die Kante und dann nach unten (Richtung SW) abbrechend den Felsen eingezeichnet. Sieht vor Ort so aus https://kvfl.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/meisenstein-sh.jpg (sorry, hab auf die Schnelle kein besseres Foto, Blickrichtung nach S). Insofern denke ich eigentlich, dass es jetzt richtig ist...
czubi (2020-05-14 15:30:52+00:00): schau jetzt mal, passt es so?
heldz (2020-05-14 15:31:19+00:00): Nee. Du suggerierst ja, dass oben Fels wäre. Da ist aber Wald...
czubi (2020-05-14 15:36:11+00:00): der Fels ist ja auch oben, weil unten ist ja Tal ;-)
czubi (2020-05-14 15:38:44+00:00): und auf der Seite wo der peak ist muss ja wohl der Felsen sein, alles andere wäre irgendwie sinnfrei?
heldz (2020-05-14 15:51:28+00:00): Nein. Wie ich beschrieben habe. Ein Fels kann durchaus seitlich aus einem Hang heraus kommen (wie hier) und der zugehörige Gipfel höher und bewaldet sein (wie hier). Bitte lies noch mal und schau dir das Bild an
czubi (2020-05-15 08:00:16+00:00): Wenn du beschreiben willst das der vertikale Teil Fels ist, dann gehört das an Cliff. Zum Fels, schau dir bitte mal die aktuellsten Luftbildaufnahmen unter http://www.geoproxy.geoportal-th.de/geoclient/control und dann im Menü unter Orthophotos (DOP) -> DOP Farbe an. Kann man leider nicht verlinken. Da siehst du den momentan (baumlosen) Zustand. 
Ausgehend vom (fast) vertikalen Teil (natural=cliff) siehst du links
vom cliff (im Tal) keinerlei Fels mehr. Alles rechts von Cliff, eben da wo der Aussichtspunkt und der peak ist. Und wenn du dir mal Bilder vom Aussichtspunkt Meisenstein anschaust dann siehst du die meisten Leute auf Felsen sitzen. Und ist es nicht auch logischer das der erhöhte Teil der Fels ist?