piebro/osm-data huggingface dataset:
Piskvor (2017-08-23 15:33:16+00:00): Dobrý den,

z nějakého důvodu vidím ty lékárny dvě a dvě polikliniky, obojí od Vás. Je v tom nějaký záměr, nebo je to jen omyl?

S pozdravem,
Piskvor
Edeltruda (2017-08-23 17:20:47+00:00): Dobrý den, je to omyl. Záznam navíc smažu. Zdraví Edeltruda
GerdP (2017-09-12 20:23:49+00:00): Hi!
You removed a route=hiking relation here, was that intended?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1150578
The tag highway=track makes no sense for a relation, so I guess you wanted to change a single way.
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-14 04:42:14+00:00): Hello, thank you for taking your time and editing the map. I have some questions.



Wiki states: "You *may* tag secondary attributes of the feature by preceding the wikipedia key with the name of the attribute". This is clearly optional, and I chose to avoid it for simplicity because the individual shops are extremely unlikely have their own wiki pages, and because the plain form is likely more widely supported.



2. Was this mechanical edit discussed anywhere prior to the edit, as required in the automated edits code of conduct[1]? Firstly, these nodes have no "operator" tags as agreed upon in the IL forums[3], but the edit adds an "operator:wd/wp". It would have been more accurate to add a "brand:wd/wp". Also, these tags are mechanically maintained by SwiftFast_bot[2], which is now throwing warnings. Prior discussion would have been nice.

lastly, the link in the description seems broken. There's no section for quality control. 

Thank you for your time.


[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SwiftFast/scripts/brand
[3] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=645276
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-14 04:44:37+00:00): I apologize, the forum thread relevant for brand vs operator is actually https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57986
nyuriks (2017-09-15 05:16:18+00:00): @SwiftFast, thanks for the thorough message!  I will be happy to fix those objects, and I agree that it should have been brand, not operator, as was suggested to me via another channel.  Also, thanks for the great forum discussion. I hope we can move forward on some proposals to standardize wd/wp tag usage.

I have been actively adding "wikidata" tags to those entries that already have "wikipedia" tags, which allowed community to perform a lot of cleanups, like fixing incorrect or stale wikipedia tags. I also built a service similar to Overpass that contains combined data from both the OSM and Wikidata databases. This allowed very sophisticated data quality control.  Those QA queries are now in the "examples" page, accessible either from wiki or directly from the tool's "examples" button.  Moreover, I am very hopeful that your bots can use this service directly, and help with cleaning up and maintain objects everywhere.

Once I tagged substantial number of wikipedia-only objects with wikidata, I started analyzing them all to find places of business that were clearly in large numbers - in other words, those whose wikidata represented a chain rather than a specific place.  I believe that I have made a mistake with that edit - they should have been tagged as brands, not operators.  My understanding was initially based on how many operator:wp/wd tags there are. I already started reversing this after some conversations, but perhaps a wider discussion should take place before the global cleanup.

I hope we can standardize on wp/wd tags being a 1:1 representation of the object, not its brand/operator/artist/subject/... This will allow a more precise info. 

* QA queries https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SPARQL_examples
* https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikidata
* related, with good discussion on talk page:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikipedia_tag_types
* New page (WIP) - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata_Classification_Guide
nyuriks (2017-09-15 06:18:26+00:00): P.S. A few days ago I started a list of all Wikidata IDs that should always be used as brand:wikidata. Should we have this as a github repo for some script? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wikidata%2BOSM_SPARQL_query_service#Current_Challenges
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-16 07:30:01+00:00): Specifically for israel: There's no need for an ID table or manually reversing your edits. Swiftfast_Bot maintains those chains, and all you have to do is edit the following templates. 

Here are the templates: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:SwiftFast/scripts/brand/templates

So you'd need to add:
- brand:wikidata = whatever's the right value
- brand:wikipedia = whatever's the right value

and remove "wikipedia", "wikidata".


The bot will then fix all chains. (And I can easily tell it to remove wikipedia/operator:wikipedia/ etc).
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-16 07:37:38+00:00): " I believe that I have made a mistake with that edit - they should have been tagged as brands, not operators." - Note that this actually depends on the regional conventions (if they exist at all). In Israel, chains have the same "brand" but this is not necessarily true everywhere. And prior to Swiftfast_Bot there was no consistency at all. (some people used the operator tag and some used brand).
nyuriks (2017-09-16 19:44:37+00:00): This is awesome!!! I think we should adapt your bot to other places, e.g. US and Russia (the two places I know a bit better than others).  Could you make your bot also track any entries that have the same wikidata ID as ones listed in the template, and update those places accordingly?
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-17 06:06:46+00:00): Thanks! I also think this should be adopted globally, but I still need to polish/simplify the code a bit first. The bot makes assumptions that are agreed upon only in Israel and there's special treatment for some tags like name/operator. Making it global requires a bit more work.



Most people don't add the Wikidata tag, so right now the bot tracks many tags like brand/name/operator to track POIs. I could make it track using the wikidata tag if it's present and fall back to other tags otherwise.
SafwatHalaby (2017-09-19 06:38:59+00:00): Fixed in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/52162459
Sanniu (2017-10-10 06:07:05+00:00): http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/517744469 - is it roundabout?
sivan00 (2017-10-10 06:37:13+00:00): Yes.
Sanniu (2017-10-10 08:52:08+00:00): Thx, fixed
nyuriks (2017-08-22 22:50:22+00:00): Доброго времени. Я переименовал wikipedia & wikidata -> operator:wikipedia & operator:wikidata, согласно описанию в вики. По описанию, wikipedia/wikidata лучше подходят для ссылок по поводу конкретного объекта - музей ссылается на статью про этот музей. Получается 1:1. А в случае когда статья про группу тип объекта, например McDonalds, надо использовать operator:* таги.
Stalker61 (2017-08-25 08:44:21+00:00): Если честно, то что касается wikipedia & wikidata лично для меня не представляет никакого интереса. Посему переименовывайте как считаете нужным. не интересен факт присутствия конкретного POI (адрес, время работы, перечень услуг и т.п.)
Stalker61 (2017-08-25 08:45:19+00:00): Сорри, очепятолся. Мне интересен факт...
literan (2017-08-23 12:29:01+00:00): Стоит! За рубежом много таких отрисовано. если уж лавочки и урны с поребриками мапят, то почему бы пункт оплаты не отрисовать?
eggie (2018-02-11 16:16:29+00:00): Nooit een welkomstmail ontvangen.. daarom..
Alsnog Welkom bij OpenStreetMap. Ik heb een uitgebreid welkomstbericht met wat handige tips en links gestuurd als privébericht.
Glassman (2017-08-22 20:42:58+00:00): Is this the company Bio+D or Bio & D? with the website http://www.bainbridgeoutfitters.com/
sander79 (2017-08-23 06:23:45+00:00): - je hebt een aantal wegen eenrichtingsverkeer gemaakt, maar ik denk dat dat niet geldt voor fietsers.
- waarom heb je een building toegevoegd voor RK Twaalfruiter. Er stond al een gebouw (geimporteerd vanuit BAG)
eggie (2017-11-14 13:47:53+00:00): Welkom bij OSM per PB verstuurd
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welkom_op_OSM
eggie (2018-03-03 20:27:47+00:00): alsnog Welkom bij OpenStreetMap. Ik heb een uitgebreid welkomstbericht met wat handige tips en links gestuurd als privébericht.
Frans S (2017-09-07 10:32:20+00:00): Hallo Tom,  Bedankt dat je geholpen heb met het mappen voor het HOT project 1090.
Zou je wat aandacht willen besteden aan het ´squaren´ van buildings, en paths etc niet door buildings te laten lopen ? Kleine moeite en bespaart de validator extra werk. Frans
Euskirchener (2017-08-23 06:43:26+00:00): Hallo Trockennasenaffe!

Vielen Dank für deine Überarbeitungen in der letzten Zeit in meiner Heimatstadt Euskirchen und jetzt auch das Hochladen von Bildern zu Mapillary. Leider wird mir bei Mapillary angezeigt, dass sich die Bilder nicht öffnen lassen. Ich sehe es zwar beim "Mit-der-Maus-drübergehen" in der Vorschau links unten, aber beim Anklicken öffnet sich eine Fehlermeldung.

Weiterhin: Was soll das hier sein? Da fehlen doch bestimmt noch weitere Tags: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/517768939

Grüße aus Euskirchen,
CorrectMapper
Trockennasenaffe (2017-08-23 07:21:53+00:00): Hallo,

Ja, da fehlen noch Gebäude tags. Ich schaue mir das alles heute Abend noch mal an.
Trockennasenaffe (2017-08-23 16:18:09+00:00): Hab das Gebäude korrigiert. Ich kann die Fotos Bei Mapillary problemlos öffnen.
Euskirchener (2017-08-23 16:28:58+00:00): Super, danke! Mapillary geht nun auch wieder bei mir.
woodpeck_repair (2017-09-12 21:47:07+00:00): This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset 51987297 where the changeset comment is: Attempt at proper clean-up in Trieste after recent 'Karma' vandalism and unsuccessful repair after DWG discussion with local community members
woodpeck_repair (2017-09-12 21:48:19+00:00): This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset 51987297 where the changeset comment is: Attempt at proper clean-up in Trieste after recent 'Karma' vandalism and unsuccessful repair after DWG discussion with local community members
woodpeck_repair (2017-09-12 21:47:16+00:00): This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset 51987297 where the changeset comment is: Attempt at proper clean-up in Trieste after recent 'Karma' vandalism and unsuccessful repair after DWG discussion with local community members
Phuong T (2017-08-22 20:37:31+00:00): #cisco #cisco_tspm
dvdhoven (2017-08-23 06:05:25+00:00): Changeset reverted due to vandalism. Source: MrKooken
erickdeoliveiraleal (2017-08-23 23:20:46+00:00): deletou area aqui.
AdVerburg (2017-09-27 11:58:33+00:00): Op http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/nl/map/?#zoom=18&lat=51.262064&lon=4.045146&layer=Mapnik&overlays=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT&item=xxxx&level=1%2C2%2C3&tags=&fixable= zag ik dat er een aantal "fouten" gemaakt waren. Het gaat over de notering van de hoogte. Zoveel KOMMA ennogwat.
In OSM wordt de engelse notering van het decimaalteken gebruikt. 
Dus zoveel PUNT ennogwat. In dit geval dus 0.75
Sukses met je verdere mappen.
erickdeoliveiraleal (2017-08-23 15:00:27+00:00): Você criou o hospital Real Hospital Português, mas ele ja existia aqui: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/447139918
erickdeoliveiraleal (2017-08-23 15:01:02+00:00): Hospital esperança ja existia antes de voce criar. Edite os que ja existem se quiser adicionar mais informações.
erickdeoliveiraleal (2017-08-23 15:01:33+00:00): o Hospital HOPE ja existia antes de voce criar.
erickdeoliveiraleal (2017-08-22 23:50:19+00:00): Boa noite, vi que você entrou ha pouco tempo e esta fazendo bastante mapeamento. Continue assim, porém você está adicionando coisas que já existem e duplicando várias coisas no mapa. Quando lago já existir no Mapa como o Hospital Unimed, apenas edite as informações que deseja incluir e não crie outro.
woodpeck_repair (2017-09-12 21:46:53+00:00): This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset 51987297 where the changeset comment is: Attempt at proper clean-up in Trieste after recent 'Karma' vandalism and unsuccessful repair after DWG discussion with local community members
letihu (2017-09-01 16:54:26+00:00): Was sind denn dies
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5052272339/history
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5052272336/history
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5052272322/history
für leere nodes?
An der Straße gibt es noch viel mehr davon.
TourenbikerFKB (2017-09-02 15:31:59+00:00): Aßerdem sind vier Häuser ((Nr. 4 bis Nr. 10) doppelt gemappt.

Als Quelle wird die "Gemeindekarte" genannt. Hat denn die Gemeinde die Erlaubnis erteil, die Daten für OSM zu verwenden?
TourenbikerFKB (2017-09-02 15:36:34+00:00): Beim Kreisaltenzentrum ist auch alles doppelt
segg (2017-09-09 09:21:47+00:00): Gemeint war,  mit Hilfe einer öffentlich verfügbaren Gemeindekarte die nach Luftbild neu gezeichneten Häuser mit ihren Hausnummern zu versehen.
stevea (2017-09-08 02:46:05+00:00): Hello Bill.  Please source the data you use to enter USBR 66 in California.  I'm quite familiar with tagging this and I don't think you can tag a route as you have here:  it is only an early sketch of a route, proposed, and not signed on the ground.  Please explain your intentions.  Thanks, SteveA.
Bill Sellin (2017-10-05 23:41:13+00:00): Hi Steve
You are correct - the USBR 66 has not yet been established by AASHTO, and may never have omn street signage in many jurisdictions, but as the historic 66 was mapped as a bike route, and the Adventure Cycling Association version of route 66 differs, I was trying to clean up the USBR 66 in progress as it gets approval.
My main motivation is to have agencies & cities who use or check the OpenStreetMap for bicycle routes will see this national route crossing their local jurisdictions.  
I am one of several Adventure Cycling volunteers working to secure local agency support to CalTrans - to get USBR 66 designated from Needles to Santa Monica.
I am new to OpenStreets and probably should tag all this as proposed but I was trying to reduce the various 66 routes and add those endorsed so far: Santa Monica, West Hollywood, Alhambra, So Pasadena East Pasadena, Arcadia...   
I will cease - but may add 'Proposed USBR 66" where the existing 66 is different.
stevea (2017-10-06 21:08:08+00:00): Hi Bill, thanks for your reply.

Please see our wiki page on this:  https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_U.S._Bicycle_Route_System

ACA routes are proprietary and copyrighted and not compatible with OSM's ODbL (license).  It's a long, long story.  I have largely written that wiki, work with ACA (including its "super volunteer" in these endeavors, Kerry Irons, as well as its Board of Directors), got AASHTO to give OSM permission to use its ballot data to map routes, and spoke on the topic at SOTM-US in Washington, DC in 2014.

It may be that various cities have "endorsed" their jurisdiction's segments of the route, but really, only an AASHTO approval is going to allow this route to be entered (without the state=proposed tag).

Again, it's been a six- or seven- year long story, rife with OSM politics, and I appreciate that you are helping to channel the consensus that has emerged by allowing the USBR 66 route in California to emerge as it has and now is.  Please don't add "proposed" route to the map, but rather communicate what intentions you might have in the wiki page's Proposed Section, USBR 66 in California row of the table.

Thanks, SteveA
stevea (2017-10-06 21:10:33+00:00): Or, maybe better, the wiki's Discussion section (tab at top).
SomeoneElse (2017-08-24 15:23:16+00:00): Hi,
I'm guessing that perhaps http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/139014661/history could do with an "amenity=funeral_directors" tag on it?
Best Regards,
Andy
chillly (2017-08-26 08:46:09+00:00): Welcome to OSM

Thanks for your additions and for improving the tagging. 

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.
nevw (2017-08-23 02:49:04+00:00): Please don't add web site items to false poi. Use Google for such items. They are not suitable for the OSM. Reverted,
BladeTC (2017-11-05 03:02:24+00:00): Olá Elton, o que vc quis mapear usando "sidewalk=this"?
muralito (2017-09-04 03:15:24+00:00): Hola Bdahrouge. Las parcelas se mapean con place=plot

Con building=house u otro va mapeado unicamente el perimetro edificado.
Bdahrouge (2017-09-07 15:13:24+00:00): Estimado! si mapeo las parcelas con place=plot no me aparecen como elemento para ser exportado.
En cambio si etiqueto cada area dibujada como building=house si puedo exportar el elemento. Es por eso que estoy trabajando de esta manera.
Tenes idea como puedo solucionarlo?
muralito (2017-09-07 17:55:08+00:00): Lo primero es que no es considerada buena practica mapear algo de forma incorrecta, ya sea para que aparezca en el mapa, no aparezca u otros motivos.

Recien probe la funcion de exportar de esta misma pagina, en esta misma zona, y en el archivo map.osm generado se incluyen los place=plot. Es esa la forma que estas trabajando u otra?
Si no, explicame bien como haces la exportacion a ver si puedo ayudarte.
punya_man (2019-02-28 04:32:03+00:00): "Hi HEN TAM,

Trust you are well. While reviewing the road network in Jakarta, I have come across the way 480601510 classified as 'teritiary'. However, going by the aerial imagery and other ways around,this should be marked as 'unclassified' as it is leading to inconsistency.

Please look into this and share your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance."
literan (2017-08-23 12:17:20+00:00): а люки-то неправильно разметил! https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/manhole
Alexander-II (2017-08-23 14:31:58+00:00): Спасибо!
Supaplex (2017-10-01 20:06:57+00:00): 恭喜您透過 Maps.Me 完成第一次的地圖編輯！ 歡迎加入開放街圖，群眾共同參與，繪製生活週遭大家關心事物的共編地圖。Maps.Me App 採用開放街圖的地理資料，由社群而非商業公司建置的地理資料庫。以下是相關的參考資料，歡迎隨時指教與提問。

編輯須知
台灣的標示依循準則可參考 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Taiwan
常見的圖徵標示方式可參考 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Zh-hant:Map_Features

由於Maps.Me隨著軟體更新更新最新地圖，App裡的地圖資料版本可能略舊，透過Maps.Me增添商家等資料時有可能開放街圖上已經有了，請到http://www.osm.org 網站看是否要加的商家有沒有人加上去了。

台灣社群網站
台灣 OpenStreetMap 網站 http://www.openstreetmap.tw
臉書粉絲頁OpenStreetMap台灣 https://www.facebook.com/opestreetmaptaiwan/
台灣社群Facebook社團 https://www.facebook.com/groups/OpenStreetMap.TW/
郵件論壇 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-tw
Slack https://osm-tw.signup.team/

Happy Mapping!
user_5359 (2017-08-23 17:21:44+00:00): Welcome to OSM! I have revert your changeset because your business is not the street. Please try again to mark the place of your business (and not the street) to add your business information.
Mike Baggaley (2017-08-24 17:21:40+00:00): HI, on ways 77513243 and 77513309 you seem to have added access=no and set motor_vehicle=official. "Official" is not an approved value - I think the correct values should be access not set and motor_vehicle=no. If you set access=no this also denies access to pedestrians and cyclists. If cyclists are not allowed, use vehicle=no instead of motor_vehicle=no. Can you please review?

Thanks,
Mike
John Grubb (2017-10-21 18:28:11+00:00): I could have sworn I read that value in the wiki somewhere but it's not on the access= page, so - every day's a school day!

These two tracks are signed as being for emergency access to the A30 only with red "prohibition" format signs. Non-emergency access by non-official vehicles or personnel is thus prohibited by implication. I imagine this means pedestrians and bicycles, too, since the tracks lead nowhere but to the duel carriageway and are gated off. That being said, there's no actual direct statement that you cannot walk down them, although you'd be taking your life in your hands once you reached the bottom of the track!

I've added the gates and expanded the access tagging to specifically control that they are for emergency vehicles only, which should suffice.
aharvey (2017-08-29 12:34:41+00:00): Hi @pangenib. Welcome to OSM and thanks for contributing.

Could you please clarify what you mean by "Sourced from RMS"?

You might want to check out https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright#Proprietary_data. We can't use copyrighted data without a license in OSM, so that rules out including details about bicycle infrastructure from RMS maps or data without a license.

If there is doubt on the source and copyright of the data then we may need to revert your changesets, so it would be great if you could please clarify your source?

You're more than welcome to add this data from other sources like Aerial Imagery we have permission for, Mapillary, or ground surveying.
David Crochet (2017-08-23 07:28:54+00:00): Pouvez-vous donner un peu plus de précisions sur cette  ajout ? Quelle service y est proposée ?
aharvey (2017-09-04 22:39:38+00:00): Could you please explain why this was changed from bicycle=designated to bicycle=yes?

Could you please let me know what you mean my "Sourced from RMS"? I haven't heard back from you about this yet.
GerdP (2017-08-29 08:50:57+00:00): Hi!
Please review typo highway=unclasified 
instead of unclassified on several ways in this area.
I've corrected it here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/51532204
Please make sure that JOSMs auto complete function sets the correct value.
П3тр0виЧъ (2017-08-23 17:21:55+00:00): Можете, конечно, продолжать в том же духе, но не думайте, что это никто не замечает. Пройдёт два, три дня, может неделя, но в любом случае все ваши художества будут удалены. И потрачено на это будет не более пяти минут.
mavl (2017-08-24 05:44:04+00:00): Здравствуйте, Neribo Flong. Напишите, пожалуйста, зачем вы переименовываете улицы?  
  
Чем название "Ветеранов улица" лучше названия "улица Ветеранов"?
Владимир К (2017-08-24 08:27:27+00:00): откатил
demon_box (2017-08-23 21:18:20+00:00): ciao, ho visto che hai taggato un cancello ma non è agganciato ne alla strada ne al sentiero che in quel punto si stacca dalla strada stessa: in questo modo sono si capisce dove si trova. immagino che sia all'imbocco del sentiero impedendone l'accesso, o sbaglio?
grazie.
CCCGGG (2017-08-24 05:55:21+00:00): Ciao,
Si, in effetti é come hai immaginato (cancello ad inizio sentiero). Adesso l'ho agganciato. Grazie per la segnalazione!
dvdhoven (2017-08-23 13:57:30+00:00): Een parkeerterrein kan nooit de vervanging van een weg zijn. Er moet dus altijd minstens 1 weg op het parkeerterrein gelegd worden. Om de onderbroken knooppuntroute 24-25 weer heel te krijgen heb ik een weg over de parkeerterreinen gelegd, maar geen idee hoe die in werkelijkheid loopt.
Let op die weg kan ook geen highway=service zijn, die routeert nl niet. Wegen waarover gerouteerd moet worden mogen nooit service zijn. unclassified of residential kan wel

Vriendelijke groeten,
Dick van den Hoven
klimpetje (2017-08-23 17:51:24+00:00): Helemaal goed hoor. Dank je voor een voor mij helder leermoment. Is eigenlijk ook logisch. Het allerbelangrijkste is hier toch, dat er voor gemotoriseerd verkeer geen doorgang is! Is dat op deze manier geborgd? De vragen is ook if dit een tijdelijke oplossing voor dit knelpunt is, of een definitieve. M.a.w bij het voltooien van de buitenring, blijft dan de situatie  zoals nu of niet?
klimpetje (2017-08-25 09:21:59+00:00): Hallo, een update op parkeerplaats naanhof.
Ik heb nog eens gecontroleerd en de situatie naar de laatste stand aangepast.
hier: https://buitenring.nl/nieuws/ingebruikname-nieuwe-rotondes-ter-hoogte-van-de-naanhof-en-vernieuwde-schuureikenweg-gemeente-nuthheerlen/ een onderbouwing, waarbij schets 1 duidelijk de situatie uitlegt. Ook deze recente foto onderbouwd mijn aanpassing: https://goo.gl/images/nqVaSi 
Ik heb het stuk geblokkeerde afrit op "motorvehicle = no" gezt. Hopelijk is dat genoeg om de routering voor auto's correct ut te voeren. De relaties blijven zo instand.
Hopelijk is het nu naar ieders tevredenheid.
Geogast (2017-09-29 18:19:57+00:00): Olá Carlos! Eu achava que as vias entre a Estação Butantã e o Pátio Vila Sônia já estavam em função. Porque, caso que não: como os trens chegam ao pátio?