eerib (2022-08-17 23:16:40+00:00): Hello valhalla121,

I received a private message from the Hat Hilton custodian (user: Custodian Hat Hilton) on June 21, 2022 and have received a follow-up on August 15, 2022. I will include below much of my initial response to the custodian.

I share the concerns with losing the cabin, misuse of the cabin, and potential safety issues that could arise from having the features on the map. However, I don’t agree with removing the cabin or path from the map and I’ll go into detail why and include several links at the end.

OpenStreetMap has a “Ground truth” policy, which refers to mapping things as they are on the ground despite objections. There are a few noted exceptions to this policy but none that apply to this cabin. If OpenStreetMap removed trails and other features from the map just because someone considered it “private”, “secret”, or a “hidden gem” then the OSM project would suffer greatly. If we delete this cabin, should we also then let the mountain bikers delete any of the hundreds of unauthorized trails they want to keep secret on the North Shore? Should we let any snowmobile group delete their unauthorized cabins? Should we let any NIMBY resident delete anything close to their property? Should we let BC Parks delete any trail they don’t consider to be official? Should we let MFLNORD delete any deactivated or non-status forestry road? Should we let any elitist hiking enthusiast delete any trail they deem overcrowded by the hordes of Insta-hikers? How would it affect the public's safety if we suddenly start removing trails and points of interest? The answer is tricky but the best practice is to map what’s on the ground but add as many tags as possible to provide context to reduce conflicts/issues.

With all that said, I do believe some self-selection should occur. I added this cabin and path to the map, and not others, because of its extensive public history, including a publicly posted map at junctions in the area, a public blog that provided information about the cabin for several years, trip reports and discussions on public forums such as ClubTread, Bivouac, Facebook, and Reddit and public tracks available in multiple hiking and sport-focused apps. Further, because the amount of information, of lack thereof, has resulted in a SAR rescue.

I realize you may not agree with my opinion above and still want the features removed. The correct procedure would be to reach out to a mediator (see Disputes page linked below) or the Data Working Group (data@openstreetmap.org) with your request and to reference our discussion in this changeset.

I have included several links below to various topics I have referred to above:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Custodian%20Hat%20Hilton

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ground_truth

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Why_we_won%27t_delete_roads_on_private_property

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes

http://ropewiki.com/File:M_Creek_sketch.pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/20170523115825/https://hathilton.wordpress.com/

https://bivouac.com/FtrPg.asp?FtrId=4582

https://bivouac.com/TripPg.asp?TripId=8088

https://forums.clubtread.com/27-british-columbia/40761-hat-hilton.html

https://forums.clubtread.com/27-british-columbia/40548-hat-mtn-cabin-tunnel-bluffs-none-above.html

https://forums.clubtread.com/27-british-columbia/45143-hat-hilton-tunnel-bluffs-2013-06-15-a.html

https://writesofpassage.me/2016/07/24/hiking-to-tunnel-bluffs-a-hidden-gem-overlooking-howe-sound/

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouverhiking/comments/scqrda/whats_the_status_of_the_hat_hilton_cabin_lions/

https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/bc-news/after-near-death-experience-north-van-couple-donates-12000-to-search-teams-2506938