Daniel Pinto JPMorgan CIB CEO interview
Daniel Pinto
Daniel Pinto's eyes lit up.
Daniel Pinto: I think that it is about momentum. If you look at 2016  the whole industry had a weaker-than-expected first quarter  and then the momentum gathered from the second quarter to the third quarter  and it continues into the fourth quarter  obviously with the normal seasonality. The fourth quarter is typically weaker than the third quarter  but the momentum continues. That 15% year-on-year increase in markets isn't different than what we saw in the previous quarters.
 Pinto : There's been a strong performance in rates  in emerging markets  in credit â it's all along the fixed-income complex.
 Pinto : When you listen to  his  potential policies  the market reaction is pretty much the mirror image of what  he  might do.
When you listen to  his  potential policies  the market reaction is pretty much the mirror image of what  he  might do.
 He  is pro-US growth  so therefore what you have is higher interest rates and the potential for the Fed to be more aggressive than it would have been otherwise. The equity-market valuations we're seeing aren't low  but there could be additional momentum  particularly in financials. It is not such a surprise.
Turner: There is an argument that the market has priced in all of the best bits of  his  policies and ignored some of the potential negative consequences.
 Pinto : We've been doing a lot of work. Some portions of the business are more electronic than they used to be  and that process may continue. For me  I've made it very clear  it is a business where success relates to your scale. To maintain your success  you have to maintain your scale. To maintain your scale  you have to adjust to however your clients want to execute. That is why David Hudson  who runs markets execution services  is creating an environment for the clients to execute through us in any way they want. That is not over. It will continue. We will continue to adjust because we're mirroring what our clients want.
 Pinto : The SEF aggregator is something we built  and no one uses it. Maybe they will one day. The world for me â the way I see it  for asset managers  more and more of their business is going to passive. That is the trend. Margins are compressing. Efficiency in the way they execute is more and more important  and so we need to face that. We need new ways to do things that are more effective for them.
 Pinto : This is fully loaded ROE for all the business lines in fixed income. This is what we produce. This line is the cost of capital  and every single business  on a fully loaded basis  is delivering a return ahead of the cost of capital  except for commodities  which is going through a process of adjustment. The most important part is if you were to eliminate one of those  not all of the capital goes away  not all of the cost goes away  so essentially the marginal impact  the ROE you would lose by closing the business  is far higher than 15%. That's why  for me  the completeness is very important.
 Pinto : It is shared infrastructure. Revenue flows go away  but capital related to operational and credit risk doesn't. That doesn't change just because you close a line of business. It just gets reassigned to different businesses. That's why when you start cutting you say  "I don't like rates â I'm going to cut rates " well  the marginal ROE of what is left is worse. And as you cut more  it gets worse and worse. In my view  when you start trying to cut costs in this type of business  you don't know when you'll stop cutting. The more you do  the more painful it will become â all in an environment where the wallet has been shrinking.
 Pinto : That's absolutely true. An example of that is equities. We will see how it plays out when equities goes into a down cycle. Everyone said  "We'll cut fixed income and focus all of our energy on protecting our equities franchise." Fine. Equities was growing. Now we have the first year where the equities wallet shrinks  and we may have another one. I don't know.
 Pinto : We look at client profitability on a long-term basis  not just this year. We measure quite accurately all of the resources we provide to the clients  capital  liquidity  the cost of everything  and then we give them credit for the resources they provide to us. They could leave their deposits with us. And then any other business we do  we calculate a marginal ROE  an absolute ROE  and we look at cycles rather than just one year. What it does is it gives you information to manage the relationship with the client. You can sit down with the client and say  "This is what it is  over the last number of years it has been X " so they know where they stand with us. It helps the salespeople to have an intelligent conversation with the client.
 Pinto : It is often easier when you partner with someone  make some progress  and then bring other people in  rather than getting a bunch of banks together and get them developing something from zero.
 Pinto : I think that in order to attract talent  you have to run the company in a way that is appealing to them. That's why we have a clear technology strategy  and have communicated externally about how vibrant and flexible JPMorgan is. It's a way to attract top talent into the organization. The more people you hire from top tech companies  the more talent comes along with them. You have to do what is right  and you have to communicate it too. The reality is that it is a vibrant institution  we're looking forward  we're successful  so therefore people want to join. We haven't had a problem attracting talent. Seventy-seven percent of our new hires into the corporate and investment bank last year were millennials  and they already make up more than 50% of the organization.
[TGT] 's eyes lit up.
 [TGT] : I think that it is about momentum. If you look at 2016  the whole industry had a weaker-than-expected first quarter  and then the momentum gathered from the second quarter to the third quarter  and it continues into the fourth quarter  obviously with the normal seasonality. The fourth quarter is typically weaker than the third quarter  but the momentum continues. That 15% year-on-year increase in markets isn't different than what we saw in the previous quarters.
  [TGT]  : There's been a strong performance in rates  in emerging markets  in credit â it's all along the fixed-income complex.
  [TGT]  : When you listen to   [TGT]   potential policies  the market reaction is pretty much the mirror image of what   [TGT]   might do.
When you listen to   [TGT]   potential policies  the market reaction is pretty much the mirror image of what   [TGT]   might do.
  [TGT]   is pro-US growth  so therefore what you have is higher interest rates and the potential for the Fed to be more aggressive than it would have been otherwise. The equity-market valuations we're seeing aren't low  but there could be additional momentum  particularly in financials. It is not such a surprise.
Turner: There is an argument that the market has priced in all of the best bits of  his  policies and ignored some of the potential negative consequences.
 Pinto : We've been doing a lot of work. Some portions of the business are more electronic than they used to be  and that process may continue. For me  I've made it very clear  it is a business where success relates to your scale. To maintain your success  you have to maintain your scale. To maintain your scale  you have to adjust to however your clients want to execute. That is why David Hudson  who runs markets execution services  is creating an environment for the clients to execute through us in any way they want. That is not over. It will continue. We will continue to adjust because we're mirroring what our clients want.
 Pinto : The SEF aggregator is something we built  and no one uses it. Maybe they will one day. The world for me â the way I see it  for asset managers  more and more of their business is going to passive. That is the trend. Margins are compressing. Efficiency in the way they execute is more and more important  and so we need to face that. We need new ways to do things that are more effective for them.
 Pinto : This is fully loaded ROE for all the business lines in fixed income. This is what we produce. This line is the cost of capital  and every single business  on a fully loaded basis  is delivering a return ahead of the cost of capital  except for commodities  which is going through a process of adjustment. The most important part is if you were to eliminate one of those  not all of the capital goes away  not all of the cost goes away  so essentially the marginal impact  the ROE you would lose by closing the business  is far higher than 15%. That's why  for me  the completeness is very important.
 Pinto : It is shared infrastructure. Revenue flows go away  but capital related to operational and credit risk doesn't. That doesn't change just because you close a line of business. It just gets reassigned to different businesses. That's why when you start cutting you say  "I don't like rates â I'm going to cut rates " well  the marginal ROE of what is left is worse. And as you cut more  it gets worse and worse. In my view  when you start trying to cut costs in this type of business  you don't know when you'll stop cutting. The more you do  the more painful it will become â all in an environment where the wallet has been shrinking.
 Pinto : That's absolutely true. An example of that is equities. We will see how it plays out when equities goes into a down cycle. Everyone said  "We'll cut fixed income and focus all of our energy on protecting our equities franchise." Fine. Equities was growing. Now we have the first year where the equities wallet shrinks  and we may have another one. I don't know.
 Pinto : We look at client profitability on a long-term basis  not just this year. We measure quite accurately all of the resources we provide to the clients  capital  liquidity  the cost of everything  and then we give them credit for the resources they provide to us. They could leave their deposits with us. And then any other business we do  we calculate a marginal ROE  an absolute ROE  and we look at cycles rather than just one year. What it does is it gives you information to manage the relationship with the client. You can sit down with the client and say  "This is what it is  over the last number of years it has been X " so they know where they stand with us. It helps the salespeople to have an intelligent conversation with the client.
  [TGT]  : It is often easier when you partner with someone  make some progress  and then bring other people in  rather than getting a bunch of banks together and get them developing something from zero.
  [TGT]  : I think that in order to attract talent  you have to run the company in a way that is appealing to them. That's why we have a clear technology strategy  and have communicated externally about how vibrant and flexible JPMorgan is. It's a way to attract top talent into the organization. The more people you hire from top tech companies  the more talent comes along with them. You have to do what is right  and you have to communicate it too. The reality is that it is a vibrant institution  we're looking forward  we're successful  so therefore people want to join. We haven't had a problem attracting talent. Seventy-seven percent of our new hires into the corporate and investment bank last year were millennials  and they already make up more than 50% of the organization.