# Newbie getting started in programming

  * >   
>  Hello Everyone,  
>  I'm a newbie and would appreciate any advice anyone can  
>  give me on getting started with a career in programming. I  
>  know VB and Visual Studio and would like to learn  
>  VBScript. Is that the right direction to take? Should I focus  
>  on the entire .net family? Or something else like java (or something else  
>  entirely?) I am also interested in working as a contractor - are any of  
>  you contractors? If so, how do you go about finding people  
>  who want to hire you? A friend of mine is in IT and was  
>  laid off and is having a hard time finding a new job. Is  
>  this an industry wide slow-down that I should watch out  
>  for? Like I said, I'm a newbie and just need some direction.  
>   
>  Thanks,  
>  Benno  
>   
> 

  * >   
>  Well, first thing, the U.S. economy is definitely in a downturn and there  
>  are many unemployed programmers at this time. We're hoping things will get  
>  better later this year but there are no guarantees.  
>   
>  Next, working as a "contractor" usually requires that you already have solid  
>  experience in the field - - you need to have already proven yourself capable  
>  in the "real world". So typically entry-level people don't work as contractors  
>  unless they are working for one of the very large contracting firms like  
>  EDS which accepts and trains new people. These firms usually require at  
>  least a bachelor's degree - - although not necessarily in computer science.  
>  If you work for a consulting firm THEY find the clients, not you. Consultants  
>  that work independently (that is, have their own businesses) have to handle  
>  all the business aspects as well as the technical aspects. This includes  
>  marketing (to find those clients) business administration (to ensure the  
>  client actually pays you and your taxes are all in order) as well as keeping  
>  up their technical skills. To learn a little more about independent contracting,  
>  I suggest www.realrates.com \- - both the website and the books sold by the  
>  website's owner.  
>   
>  Finally, as for the eternal question "Which technology should I learn?" there  
>  are really several different ways to go. Some people will advocate one language  
>  or platform over the other, but a decent living can be made using many different  
>  technologies.  
>   
>  So you've got a couple options:  
>   
>  1\. Go to college (if you haven't already) and get an IT degree. Upon graduation,  
>  you can work with the university's placement department or interview with  
>  companies on your own.  
>   
>  2\. Approach the smaller consulting firms in your area and ask them about  
>  their requirements for hiring (degrees? certifications? experience?) I  
>  can pretty much guarantee the large ones will insist on college degrees but  
>  the smaller companies might consider someone if they can present themselves  
>  REALLY well.  
>   
>  3\. You can try the independent route although it's not something I recommend  
>  for the inexperienced. There are just too many bases to cover and it's too  
>  easy to end up not being paid because the customer is unhappy for one reason  
>  or another.  
>   
>  IT is not like selling real estate on the weekends. It's a full-fledged  
>  career and requires lengthy preparation and ongoing effort to remain current  
>  with the technology. The simpler coding jobs are often being outsourced  
>  overseas so going forward the jobs that remain in the US will require broad  
>  background in both business and technical areas.  
>   
>  Best of Luck.  
>  Elena  
>   
> 

  * > Benno,  
>   
>  It is wonderful that you like to pursue a career in programming (a  
>  professional that I love dearly), but I just hope that your decision is  
>  based on your affection on programming and not because of the money.  
>   
>  It is very important for you at this stage not to focus on the tools.  
>  Instead, you should be "building" the knowledge on logic, algorithm, problem  
>  solving, and object-oriented design concepts. Tools will change over time,  
>  but logic and algorithm will not. You will be a good programmer if you have  
>  good logic and good design. Without that, I don't care how well you know  
>  Visual Studio, you will still be writing bad application.   
>   
>  By the way, VBScript is going away. So if you don't know it by now, don't   
>  waste time on it. As of whether to learn .NET or Java, I am always a strong   
>  advocate to learn as much as you can. So IMHO, I think you should learn  
>  both if you can. If you cannot, for whatever reason, you just have to  
>  decide which "camp" you want to join..... the Microsoft camp or the  
>  "anything but Microsoft" camp, then pick the tools accordingly. Either camp  
>  can provide you a long lasting career.  
>   
>  IMHO, I think every programmer should learn C++ first. If you are good in  
>  C++, all these C#, Java, or whatever that comes along, will be "piece of  
>  cake". =)  
>   
>  I don't do contract work. It is not my "cup of tea". So I cannot tell you  
>  much about it. But I think it might be tough for you to get any contract  
>  work if you don't have any "real life" working experience (it is my  
>  assumption based on your post, so correct me if I am wrong). Not too many  
>  places will hire "entry-level" contractors.  
>   
>  For the past 5 years or so, the IT industry was way over-supplied with  
>  labors, thanks to the dotcom bubbles. Many people were attracted to the  
>  profession primarily because of the money. And thanks to all the great RAD  
>  tools that we have, there are many programmers out there that do not have  
>  solid programming foundation and cannot write a program without an IDE.  
>   
>  The slow-down is pretty much a self-correction. It brings the IT profession  
>  back down to earth. Programmers will still be able to find jobs, but not at  
>  the previous outrageous rate. And if you are good, with solid experience,  
>  there are still jobs out there. Having said that, it will be very tough for  
>  "newbie" like you at this time. You just have to keep trying and have a lot  
>  of patience.  
>   
>  Well, good luck and happy programming. =)  
>   
>  simon.  
>   
> 

  * >   
>  Simon,  
>  Thank you for taking the time to respond. My interest in programming comes  
>  from an enjoyment of programming, not the money. I love feeling like I'm  
>  actually "creating" something.  
>  Thanks for the heads-up about VBScript. I won't pursue it further. I'll  
>  start checking out C++ now. Thanks also for the info on contracting. I had  
>  thought that I'd stand a better chance as a beginner contracting because  
>  they wouldn't have to spend money on benefits, etc. But I guess I'll rethink  
>  that now.  
>   
>  Thanks again for your advice.  
>   
>  Benno  
>   
> 

  * >   
>   
>  Where is this EDS located?  
> 

  * >   
>  See http://eds.com/. There is a 'Careers' link in the upper right of  
>  the home page.  
>   
> 

  * >   
>   
>  Electronic Data Systems has a global practice. Go to www.eds.com to see the  
>  list of countries, job openings, etc.  
>   
> 

  * >   
>  You see? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Benno, I suggest you study  
>  somewhere in Asia, India would be an excellent choice. Change your citizenship  
>  to Indian and then apply for an H-1B visa to come back to the US to work.  
>  It might very well be the only way you will find a job.  
>   
>  Mark  
>   
>  PS - No offense to our current foreign workers is intended - they really  
>  are wonderful people. This sarcasm is directed at US businesses asking for  
>  more H-1B visas when we have talented American IT workers in the unemployment  
>  lines and working at the local Ace Hardware store or delivering for Dominoes  
>  Pizza.  
>   
> 

  * >   
>  This is just a rumor folks, but I hear that most of the goods India produces  
>  are, not for the Indian people, but for export.  
>   
>  If this is true, then you can see why this is a perfect symbiotic relationship  
>  between U.S. business need to derive more profit (forget about caring for  
>  America, just get the money) and a country that would supply labor in a manner  
>  that fulfills American human rights criteria, but at a low price.  
>   
>  Even though, the Indian people may come here for a few years and get  
>  paid (compared to India), everyone longs for home. They will be back and  
>  eventually, either India will have the economic power or share it more jointly  
>  with America.  
>   
> 

  * >   
>  Michael - I have no problem with offshore development, I have no problem with  
>  the existing H-1B visas. I have a problem with politicians who talk about  
>  stimulating the economy and then sign off to bring in even more cheap labor  
>  when, by some estimates, one million IT workers lost their job in the United  
>  States last year. I have a problem with a President who says he knows people  
>  are hurting and he wants to get them back to work, yet part of his platform  
>  was to increase H-1B visas dramatically (that's a fact). We have no union.  
>  All one can do is write their congressional delegation and that's what I  
>  was trying to encourage. I don't want anyone to go through what my colleagues  
>  and I went through last January. Very, very painful.  
>   
>  Mark  
>   
> 

  * > Hi,  
>   
>  having read your views and being a newbie programmar myself, i would like to  
>  know how to improve logic, problem solving  
>  regards  
>  raj  
>