Florida Building Commission

Education POC Minutes

### January 28, 2013

**Tallahassee, Florida**

  
Meeting information   
  
Date: Monday, January 28, 2013   
Time: 10:00 am, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)   
Meeting Number: 640 414 741  
Meeting Password: (This meeting does not require a password.)   


**_Education POC Objectives_**  
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ØTo approve January 28 2013 Agenda ØTo approve January 11 Meeting Minutes ØTo approve November 2012 Minutes ØTo review/decide pending accreditor applications ØTo review/decide accredited advanced courses ØTo review/decide administratively approved updated courses ØTo review/decide self affirmed updated courses ØTo review/discuss Education Administrator activity report ØTo identify future POC member discussion items ØTo discuss general public comment ØTo identify needed next steps, assignments, and agenda items for next meeting  
**_Education POC Meeting Minutes— January 28, 2013_**  
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_All Agenda Times—Including Adjournment—Are Approximate and Subject to Change_  
**10:12 a.m. EST** |  **1.)** |  **Welcome and Opening, Roll Call** **POC Members Present:** Jeffrey Stone PhD (Temporary Chair), Herminio Gonzalez, Ken Gregory, Drew Smith, Kevin Flanagan  **POC Member(s) Absent:** Jon Hamrick, Scott Mollan **Meeting Attendees Identified:** Ila JonesLisa Pate Lauren TruluckJohn Adcox Cam FentrissMed Kopczynski Michael ClarkDon Whitehead April HammondsMarlita Peters Joe Bigelow  
**2.)** |  **Review and approval of the January 28, 2013 meeting Agenda** **Motion:** To approve as submitted **Motion:** Drew Smith **Second** : Ken Gregory **Approved Unanimously**  
**3.)** |  **Review and approval of January 11, 2013 meeting Minutes** **Motion:** To approve as submitted **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second** : Drew Smith **Approved Unanimously**  
**4.)** |  **Review and approval of the November 2012 meeting Minutes** **Motion:** To approve as submitted **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second** : Drew Smith **Approved Unanimously**  
**5.)** |  **Review pending accreditor applications for recommendation to the Commission** None Pending  
**6.)** |  **Review pending advanced accredited courses for recommendation to the Commission** **Course:** 2010 Florida Building Code Accessibility **Provider:** FRSA – Fl . Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond. Cont. Assn. **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 541.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Kevin Flanagan **Discussion:**_Education Administrator Michael Clark stated that this course was_ _deferred at the November ED POC meeting because of some minor issues on slides 29 and 35-38 and the course title was missing the word “Advanced.” He further stated that he found during his current review of this course some minor typographical errors on slides 11 and 21. He stated that all of the issues identified in the November meeting had been rectified. _ Mr. Clark did say an issue still existed for this course, which was the course was not accredited and submitted in its final form into the BCIS until January 14, 2013 meaning the course was four days past the deadline for inclusion (January 12, 2013) on the agenda. Mr. Clark asked all of the ED POC members to view the course history on the Education Administrator’s report. He then summarized the course history and stated that most of the emails and phone calls between he and the provider were as a result of technical issues the provider was experiencing when she tried to upload the course materials into the BCIS. According to the provider, the system (BCIS) was not allowing the course materials to be uploaded, which was the reason for the materials being a late submission. _April Hammonds, the FBC General Counsel, stated that her advice to the ED POC would be to approve this course. However, she further stated that this approval would open a door and essentially create a precedent that others could use. She said the rule may need to be modified to reflect (list) exceptions to the current rule deadline._ _Ila Jones pointed out that the deadline applies to course accreditation – not uploading of materials – and some providers wait until the last minute to have their courses accredited, which then magnifies any system issues or time lapses. She felt that the accreditation process for this course could be a case in point about waiting until the last minute._ _Lisa Pate with FRSA, the training provider for this course, stated that, after believing she had uploaded the materials on December 7, 2012, she started the process of re-uploading on January 9, 2013 and was still having technical issues on January 12, 2013 (the deadline), then contacted Michael Clark._ _Med Kopczynski, a training provider/accreditor, stated that at times things happen which are out of everyone’s control and providers who make a good faith effort to comply with the rules should receive the benefit of the doubt from the ED POC and be allowed to proceed without experiencing what would be considered a punitive action._ **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** 2010 FBC – ENERGY CONSERVATION **Provider:** Florida Air Conditioning Apprenticeship Association **Accreditor:** BCIC LLC **BCIS Course Number:** 548.0 **Motion:** Course should be **deleted** from the agenda because it was previously denied atthe November 2012 ED POC Meeting **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Discussion:** _Michael Clark stated that this course should not have been placed on this agenda because it was denied at the November 2012 ED POC Meeting. The reason for the denial was that it was a duplicate of course number 552.0 which was approved by the ED POC at the November 2012 Meeting._ **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Advanced Building Code (Online) **Provider:** Adcox Group **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 270.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content _and after the three identified typographical errors are corrected on slide one_ **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Discussion:**_It was noted that this course was accredited and submitted in its final form into the BCIS on January 18, 2013 which was six days after the deadline date of January 12, 2013. Mr. Clark stated that this provider experienced system difficulties uploading materials, as evidenced by the course history (BCIS actions, emails, phone calls) posted in the Education Administrator’s report._ _Michael Clark stated that after his review of this course he found three minor typographical errors on slide one. Specifically, the word “code” is left off the last sentence, the word “extend” should be “extent,” and “contactor” should be “contractor.”_ **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Fire Protection Systems-Advanced Course **Provider:** Alarm Association of Florida, Inc. **Accreditor:** Stay Safe Enterprises **BCIS Course Number:** 549.0 **Motion:** Course **_conditionally_** **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content _and until a correct timeline is submitted to the Education Administrator_ **Motion:** Kevin Flanagan **Second:** Ken Gregory **Discussion:** _Michael Clark stated that this course was also deferred at the November 2012 ED POC Meeting because a 10 question exam was missing, and the word “advanced” was not in the course title. He further stated that those issues have been rectified. He also stated that after his review he found two minor typographical errors: slide 28 (“fi_re” should be “fire”) and on slide 34 (“tire” should be “fire”). He also found that a timeline allocating minutes to specific areas of instruction was missing. A “timeline” statement was included in the syllabus stating that this course is an hour long. However the required allocation of minutes is missing._ **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Wind Mitigation Gable End Procedures and Forms **Provider:** FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond. Cont. Assn. **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 544.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Discussion:** _Michael Clark stated that this course was_ _deferred at the November ED POC meeting because a final exam was missing, on slide 17 the mention of ACSE requirements being met was missing, and also the course title was missing the word “advanced.” He stated that all of the issues identified in the November ED POC meeting had been rectified. Mr. Clark also stated that this course was not accredited and submitted in its final form into the BCIS until January 16, 2013, four days after the agenda deadline of January 12, 2013. Mr. Clark stated this course history was the same as course number 541.0, which the ED POC had already reviewed._ _Lisa Pate with FRSA, the training provider for this course, stated that, after believing she had uploaded the materials on December 7, 2012, she started the process of re-uploading on January 11, 2013 and was still having technical issues on January 12, 2013 (the deadline), then contacted Michael Clark._ **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Advanced Florida Building Code: Understanding the Florida Building Code – Energy - Internet **Provider:** BCIC LLC **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 558.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Kevin Flanagan **Second:** Drew Smith **Discussion:** None. **Approved Unanimously**  
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**7.)** |  **Review administratively approved updated courses for recommendation to the Commission** **Course:** 2010 Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida Energy Code **Provider:** BCIC LLC **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 443.1 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Kevin Flanagan **Discussion:** _The Chair asked Michael Clark if this course was the same as course number 558.0. Mr. Clark stated that the course material was the same for both courses, but one course was an online course and the other was an instructor led course._ **Approved Unanimously**  
**8.)** |  **Review administratively approved self affirmed updated courses for recommendation to the Commission** None Pending  
**9.)** |  **Education Administrator activity report** **Discussion:**_Cam Fentriss stated that there were few public inquiries, which she noted is usual with the 2010 FBC in effect and few licensure renewal deadlines pending. She reminded everyone of the training grant money that is available for both association and energy related training. She also stated that the course histories for advanced courses 541.0, 544.0, and 270.0, which had already been discussed---were attached to this report_.

## FBC Education Administrator ReportJanuary 22, 2013

A. Provided administrative support for FBC Education POC for November 19, 2012  and January 11, 2013 meetings  B. Drafted minutes for FBC Education POC November 19, 2012 and January 11, 2013 meetings  C. Prepared agenda for FBC Education POC meeting on January 11 and 28, 2013 meetings  D. Inquiries from the public November 14, 2012 to January 21, 2013 as follows:  5 inquiries:2 telephone;1 email;2 telephone and email  _Category of inquirers_ :  1 Provider1 Licensee1 Contractor  1 Utility company1 Consumer  _Types of Inquiries_ :  1 Mechanical Code  1 HVAC code requirements  2 Course providers  1 DBPR board application process  E. We have training grant money available generally described here: Association training:  \-- Advanced codes courses  \-- $40.00 per hour per attendee for first hour  \-- $35.00 per hour per attendee for each hour after the first hour  \-- Maximum of 50 persons per training session  \-- Total of $230,000 available, first come, first served  Energy training:  \-- Specified courses (FBC courses, already developed and approved)  \-- Must be delivered by instructors who have had FSEC train-the-trainer  \-- $25.98 per attendee for 2.5 hours of training  \-- Persons trained must be contractors or building officials (for grant funding)  \-- Total of $100,000 available, first come, first served  F. Information attached on three courses on January 28, 2013 Education POC agenda. Accreditation and application submittal deadline was January 12, 2013, and this is indicated in each listing in **bold** and _underline_ in the attached. 

#### _FBC Course Number 270.0 by Adcox Group_

__Note__ _: Some entries below reflect provider effort to respond to request posted in note section on BCIS, submission, then inability to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. This problem was eventually cured by uploading materials first, then responding to request in note section on BCIS. Entry in**bold** and _underlined_ shows date provider ready, willing, and able and had attempted to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. _ 11-21-12 Course submitted  12-7-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  1-11-13 Administrator note: needs general update  1-11-13 Jim Hammers email to MRC stating that course needs to be reset to “Needs More Info”  1-11-13 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information  1-11-13 Provider not able to upload  **_1-11-13 Changes submitted by provider_** 1-11-13 More information requested by accreditor  1-11-13 Information submitted by provider  1-12-13 Provider email to MRC stating difficulty when uploading materials  **_1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation and application submittal_** 1-14-13 Provider email to MRC stating that course materials still not uploaded and called someone for help  1-14-13 Provider call to MRC asking for more help  1-14-13 MRC call to provider trying to identify issue re upload  1-14-13 Accreditor email to provider acknowledging uploaded and approval  1-14-13 Provider email to accreditor stating course appeared uploaded, but BCIS would not let him upload  1-14-13 Accreditor email to provider asking for notice when course is uploaded so he can accredit  1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating still having upload issues  1-14-13 Provider email to accreditor stating BCIS would not upload corrected materials, but would re-uploadoriginal non-corrected materials 1-14-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  1-15-13 Administrator note: requesting provider upload materials  1-15-13 Provider email to MRC asking when to try to upload again  1-15-13 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information  1-15-13 MRC email to provider that course has been reset and try to upload again  1-15-13 Provider email to MRC stating could not upload materials  1-15-13 Provider not able to upload 1-15-13 Information submitted by provider  1-15-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help stating course was sent to accreditor so MRC could not reset  1-15-13 MRC call to DBPR tech help asking for options for assistance  1-15-13 Provider call to MRC stating still could not upload  1-15-13 Provider email to MRC stating could not upload course materials  1-15-13 MRC call to provider about status  1-16-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help asking for help with course 270.0  1-16-13 DBPR tech help email to MRC asking that accreditor place course in “Needs More Info” mode  1-16-13 Provider email to accreditor asking accreditor to place course in “Needs More Info”  1-16-13 Accreditor email to provider stating that he accredited the course accidentally  1-16-13 Provider email that accreditor is ready to accredit again 1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  1-17-13 Administrator note: requesting change DCA to DBPR  1-17-13 MRC email that course is again in “Needs More Info” mode  1-17-13 DBPR tech help email asking if course was in “Needs More Info” mode  1-17-13 MRC email to DBPR tech help stating that course is in “Needs More Info” mode  1-17-13 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information  1-17-13 Provider call to MRC stating his frustrations 1-17-13 Information submitted by provider  1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking if he tried again to upload  1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have 270.0 placed on agenda  1-17-13 MRC call to DBPR tech help asking if other options are available re uploading of materials 1-17-13 Request by provider to place course on January 28 POC agenda  1-17-13 Email from provider requesting that 270.0 be placed on POC agenda  1-17-13 Provider call to MRC asking if request sent via email was sufficient  1-18-13 Provider call to MRC asking if upload complete  FBC Course Number 541.0 by FRSA  __Note__ _: Some entries below reflect provider effort to respond to request posted in note section on BCIS, submission, then inability to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. This problem was eventually cured by uploading materials first, then responding to request in note section on BCIS. Entry in**bold** and _underlined_ shows date provider ready, willing, and able and had attempted to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. _ 9-12-12 Course submitted  9-18-12 Request by accreditor for provider contact information  9-18-12 Contact information provided by provider  9-19-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  11-29-12 Deferred by POC (no "Advanced" in title, slide 29, answers for exam missing)  12-2-12 MRC email to provider and accreditor informing of course 541.0 deferral by ED POC  12-7-12 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information **_12-7-12 Provider note: new presentation attached_** 12-10-12 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and how to fix within BCIS  1-9-13 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and deadline of 1-12-13  1-11-13 MRC call to provider asking about status of changes to materials and reminder of deadline  1-11-13 Provider call to MRC stating that changes will be made---currently attending board meeting  **_1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation and application submittal_** 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating having difficulties uploading materials  1-14-13 MRC call to provider asking about status  1-15-13 MRC call to provider checking on status  1-15-13 Information submitted by provider  1-16-13 More information requested by accreditor  1-16-13 Accreditor or administrator note: "????"  1-16-13 Information submitted by provider  1-16-13 Provider note: new timeline and outline attached  1-16-13 Provider email stating course information finally updated  1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  1-17-13 Request by provider to place course on January 28 POC agenda  1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have 541.0.0 placed on agenda  1-17-13 Provider email requesting that 541.0 be placed on POC agenda

#### _FBC Course Number 544.0 by FRSA_

__Note__ _: Some entries below reflect provider effort to respond to request posted in note section on BCIS, submission, then inability to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. This problem was eventually cured by uploading materials first, then responding to request in note section on BCIS. Entry in**bold** and _underlined_ shows date provider ready, willing, and able and had attempted to upload modified/corrected/revised materials. _ 9-19-12 Course submitted  9-20-12 Accreditor note: course time table does not include times  9-20-12 Provider note: course timeline attached  10-24-12 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  11-29-12 Deferred by POC (no "Advanced" in title, exam missing, slide 17 needs ASCE 7 information)  12-2-12 MRC email to provider and accreditor informing of course 544.0 deferral by ED POC  12-7-12 Application reset to allow upload of changes/information  **_12-7-12 Provider note: new presentation attached_** 12-10-12 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and how to fix within BCIS  1-9-13 MRC email to provider reminding of deferral and deadline of 1-12-13  1-11-13 MRC call to provider asking about status of changes to materials and reminder of deadline  1-11-13 Provider call to MRC stating that changes will be made---currently attending board meeting  **_1-12-13 Deadline for accreditation and application submittal_** 1-14-13 Provider call to MRC stating having difficulties uploading materials  1-14-13 MRC call to provider asking about status  1-15-13 MRC call to provider checking on status 1-15-13 Information submitted by provider  1-16-13 Provider email stating course information finally updated 1-16-13 Accredited by Bill Dumbaugh  1-17-13 Request by provider to place course on January 28 POC agenda  1-17-13 MRC call to provider asking for request to have 544.0 placed on agenda  1-17-13 Provider email requesting that 544.0 be placed on POC agenda  
**10.)** |  **Identify future POC member discussion items** The Chair stated that he thought the computer/electronic problems that providers experienced attempting to upload materials into the BCIS for advanced courses numbered 541.0, 544.0, and 270.0, should be a topic of discussion at the next ED POC meeting. He also thought that the POC should discuss how to handle typos as part of the course approval process. Cam Fentriss stated that another topic of discussion was brought up at the November, 2012 ED POC meeting by the FBC General Counsel, April Hammonds, which was the 23 calendar day course accreditation/submission deadline, which requires that an advanced course must be accredited and submitted within the BCIS---23 calendar days prior to the next FBC Plenary session for an advanced course to be placed on the next ED POC meeting’s agenda. April Hammonds stated that she does have concerns about the 23 calendar day requirement. Specifically she stated that “calendar days” is not necessarily a legal determination, and also she wasn’t sure about the statutory authority regarding this part of rule language. Ila Jones stated that a training session would be held in April regarding the role of the accreditor and how providers can better work within the BCIS.  
**11.)** |  **General public comment** No public comment was given.  
**12.)** |  **Summary and review of meeting work products and adoption of recommendations for submittal to the commission**

## _Re_ _commended Commission Actions_

**The Education POC considered and recommends the following:** **The following new courses are recommended for APPROVAL:** **Course:** 2010 Florida Building Code Accessibility **Provider:** FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond. Cont. Assn. **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 541.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Kevin Flanagan **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** 2010 FBC – ENERGY CONSERVATION **Provider:** Florida Air Conditioning Apprenticeship Association **Accreditor:** BCIC LLC **BCIS Course Number:** 548.0 **Motion:** Course should be **deleted** from the agenda because it was previously denied atthe November 2012 ED POC Meeting **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Advanced Building Code (Online) **Provider:** Adcox Group **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 270.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content _and after the three identified typos are corrected on slide one_ **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Fire Protection Systems-Advanced Course **Provider:** Alarm Association of Florida, Inc. **Accreditor:** Stay Safe Enterprises **BCIS Course Number:** 549.0 **Motion:** Course **_conditionally_** **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content _and until a correct timeline is submitted to the Education Administrator_ **Motion:** Kevin Flanagan **Second:** Ken Gregory **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Wind Mitigation Gable End Procedures and Forms **Provider:** FRSA – Fl. Roofing, Sheet Metal, Air Cond. Cont. Assn. **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 544.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Drew Smith **Approved Unanimously** **Course:** Advanced Florida Building Code: Understanding the Florida Building Code – Energy - Internet **Provider:** BCIC LLC **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 558.0 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Kevin Flanagan **Second:** Drew Smith **Discussion:** None. **Approved Unanimously** **The following administratively approved updated course is recommended for APPROVAL:** **Course:** 2010 Advanced FBC Understanding the Florida Energy Code **Provider:** BCIC LLC **Accreditor:** Bill Dumbaugh **BCIS Course Number:** 443.1 **Motion:** Course **_approved_** based on the FBC accreditation process that only verifies the accuracy of the Florida Building Code related content **Motion:** Ken Gregory **Second:** Kevin Flanagan **Approved Unanimously**