ccnmtl/mediathread — Issue #16: detecting JW Player video and playing back with Flowplayer
Author: shodges
Created: 2011-11-30 00:10:40+00:00
State: open

See below for previous email discussion of an issue involving recognizing JW Player-embedded video -- Mediathread seems to recognize it properly but doesn't play it back in Flowplayer properly -- my guess (based on limited streaming video experience and on some info from Flowplayer docs) is that Flowplayer needs the URL to be prepended with mp4: to deal with this kind of video properly.

****

Thanks Jonah, and Hello Susan...

I really appreciate your taking a look at this. I'm sending this last message to the same group, and I'm also going to copy it into a github issue so that we can transition to that.

Here is an example of video that is supplied by our streaming system:

http://play.media.gatech.edu/s/iac.gatech.edu/root/57f7a1ee-2d03-5e3e-84ad-71681a2ac46b

I don't think the jwplayer urls are different -- I think (well, guess) that flowplayer needs the url to be in a different form for them to play correctly -- maybe this is because these videos are h.264 encoded and flowplayer needs the mp4: prepended to play that kind of video properly? Maybe that's not needed for jw player?

Here's an example of flowplayer playing the same video (with the mp4: added to the url):

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~sh157/flowplayer-test/test-flowplayer-gt.html

Thanks for any insight you can give -- if there's anything we can do to help or if you know of some way we can work around this, please let us know.

-steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonah Bossewitch"
To: "Steve Hodges"
Cc: "Susan Dreher" , "Michelle Hall" , "Mark Phillipson" , "James Minyard"
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 6:30:07 PM
Subject: Fwd: Mediathread questions

Hi Steve,

If it's ok with you, can we transfer this conversation to the github issue tracker?

https://github.com/ccnmtl/mediathread/issues

I have copied MediaThread's lead developer, Susan Dreher on this email, and she might also have some opinions on the best approach.

So, are you saying that your jwplayer urls are different from the ones that flowplayer is expecting? I am not sure if it is "accidental" that the jwplayer is being detected, or if we can expect continued compatibility. It probably makes sense to do some specific work to actually detect jwplayer and treat that differently (so, for example, we don't mess up videos that are coming from flowplayer).

Are any of the examples accessible to us if we wanted to take a quick look?

Thanks,
/Jonah

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Steve Hodges
> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
> Date: November 29, 2011 4:42:46 PM EST
> To: Jonah Bossewitch
> Cc: Michelle Hall , Mark Phillipson , James Minyard
>
> Hi again...
>
> I've thought about this and worked with it a bit more. It appears that Mediathread does actually identify JWplayer-embedded video from GT's streaming servers, seemingly correctly, but it does not play it back properly in Flowplayer.
>
> It looks like the issue is that our videos need URLs with "mp4:" at the beginning -- I gather this is because they're h.264 encoded. (Disclaimer: I'm a novice with streaming media, so please feel free to correct me if I'm totally off on any of this.) That is, in the following section that configures the Flowplayer object
>
>
>
> I think the URL should look like this:
>
> "url":"mp4:public/buzzbox/iac.gatech.edu/root/test-hodges.mp4"
>
> I verified that the video plays after changing this value through Firebug.
>
> So, it seems like this is very close to working, but I'm not sure what the best way is to address this -- that is, where we would make such a change, or if Mediathread could possibly detect the encoding and insert the mp4: as needed. If you have advice about that, we'd be very grateful. Thanks for all of your help with this!
>
> -steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Hodges"
> To: "Jonah Bossewitch"
> Cc: "Michelle Hall" , "Mark Phillipson" , "James Minyard"
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
>
> Hi Jonah...
>
> Thanks for this information. I'll certainly make the documentation suggestions through github -- I've made a note to do that -- probably within the next few days. I also would be happy to put together our notes on CAS integration for publication.
>
> I now know a bit more about our video streaming options here at GT. We do have access to a campus-run streaming server that can be accessed through Sakai or independently. The Sakai integration seems pretty good and seem like it might work well for Kim's needs. The one hitch: our streaming service makes video available embedded in JW Player [ http://www.longtailvideo.com/players/jw-flv-player/ ] rather than Flowplayer.
>
> I can see a couple of possibilities to address this -- either change Mediathread so that it can detect JW Player-embedded videos and present them for analysis -- or change our streaming service so that it can also offer videos in Flowplayer as an alternative. Maybe there are other possibilities -- if you see any other possibilities we'd of course be very interested.
>
> (Parenthetically, it seems like Mediathread is able to detect video embedded in JW Player -- the bookmarklet finds the video name and offers to analyze it -- but when it gets into Mediathread it can't be played in Flowplayer. Ex:
>
> http://play.media.gatech.edu/s/iac.gatech.edu/root/7a32135a-e740-5de2-97c1-a3e9995dead7
>
> I have not yet looked at the Mediathread source to see what might be involved in making it JW Player-compatible. It seems like it might be relatively straightforward since the two players seem somewhat similar. I wanted to run this by you to get your thoughts before deciding how to approach it. If you all happen to be interested in adding JW Player support into Mediathread in general, we'd be glad to help in whatever way we can, under your guidance.
>
> Thanks again for all of your help. If this turns out to be easier to discuss over the phone, I'll be glad to coordinate something for perhaps early next week.
>
> -steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonah Bossewitch"
> To: "Steve Hodges"
> Cc: "Michelle Hall" , "Mark Phillipson" , "James Minyard"
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:30:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Glad to hear it - I'll make sure to pass the complement along to the lead developer.
>
> We are absolutely interested in your experiences, documentation, and code.
>
> Documentation is ridiculously easy to edit on github. You can do it all through the web, and don't even need to download the code. Log into gighub, and look for a button that says - Fork and Edit". If you were up for making your changes (which will temporarily fork the documentation) just make a "pull" request to us and we will gladly merge the changes. If that sounds too complicated, just send them along in an email and we'll take the patches.
>
> We would also _love_ to have your example of CAS integration to point to. Would you be game to publish that back to the world also? I can give you more details about how we keep our columbia-specific code, or any secrets (api keys, etc) separate.
>
> As for media players, I we should definitely be more clear about that in the documentation, and I daresay we are long overdue for a diagram.
>
> Here is the line in settings.py which defines where to find the flowplayer swf, which mediathread uses to playback flash videos (there are many flowplayers in the wild). When the bookmarklet finds a flowplayer in the dom, it doesn't actually embed the foreign player. Instead, MediaThread uses it's own flowplayer to playback the stream.
>
> https://github.com/ccnmtl/mediathread/blob/master/settings_shared.py#L157
>
> In our installation we actually refer to a local copy of flowplayer, not the one at releases.flowplayer.org. We don't ship with flowplayer.
>
> Flowplayer is just the player. Are you running your own video streaming server?
>
> We have successfully embedded video players into Sakai, and then used the mediathread bookmarklet to analyze videos that are presented within a Sakai page. Is that what you mean? We aren't actually hosting any video within Sakai. Only embedding video players of video hosted elsewhere (some of it locally at Columbia) on Sakai pages.
>
> As usual, let me know if you prefer some time to talk over the phone instead of email.
>
> hope that helps,
> /Jonah
>
> On Nov 18, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Steve Hodges wrote:
>
>> Hi Jonah...
>>
>> Hope you are well. We've been proceeding with our Mediathread installation, and we have not run into any big problems -- I think that's a tribute to your quality coding and packaging -- thank you for that. There were a couple of little (apparent) discrepancies between the posted instructions and what I needed to do, and I'll be glad to share those if that would be of any use to you -- but it was nothing major. And fortunately the CAS integration was pretty straightforward, thanks to the django_cas library.
>>
>> I understand from James and Kim that she also used a package called FlowPlayer there -- this was to provide access to video not hosted on public sites like YouTube or its ilk. From what I've read about FlowPlayer, it looks good and seems pretty straightforward. But before we go in that direction I wanted to follow up with you about something you (or maybe Michelle) mentioned in a previous email -- you mentioned that you had had some success integrating media hosted on Sakai with Mediathread -- am I remembering correctly? If this would provide a reasonable alternative to FlowPlayer, it would offer us a couple of advantages -- our campus Sakai installation is much more highly available than what we (the college) could provide -- and it offers more space.
>>
>> Anyway, if you have any thoughts or advice on Mediathread with Sakai, we'd be grateful. Thanks again for your help with this!
>>
>> -steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jonah Bossewitch"
>> To: "steve hodges"
>> Cc: "Michelle Hall" , "Mark Phillipson"
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 7:14:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
>>
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I am the technical architect here at CCNMTL and I can answer your technical questions about MediaThread. I will answer a few here, but it might also make sense to set up a time for us to talk.
>>
>> We use ubuntu here, though I don't think there are any /major/ blockers around Red Hat. Do you mean RedHat, or CentOS? Redhat w/out support can be a huge pain, and generally speaking, the python/django community likes to stay close to the leading edge, so the version lag in RH packaging can sometimes be a drag, but I am pretty certain there is good support and documentation for running django apps on RedHat. We don't do anything too esoteric.
>>
>> FYI - we run our applications agains postgres, not mysql. In theory, they should run against mysql quite happily, but YMMV a bit.
>>
>> 4gb memory and 50gb disk are way more than enough. I think our installation is running on a virtual server with 1g ram.
>>
>> As for auth, well, that's never trivial. WIND is very similar to CAS, but it depends on where you want to start hacking. We do not currently integrate with our course/learning management system, though we have been eyeing (from afar) the Basic LTI spec as an approach - http://www.imsglobal.org/lti/.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>> /Jonah
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Jonah Bossewitch
>> Technical Architect
>> ccnmtl.columbia.edu
>> jonah at ccnmtl dot columbia dot edu
>> 212.854.1815
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Steve Hodges
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
>>>>> Date: October 19, 2011 12:27:59 PM EDT
>>>>> To: Michelle Hall , Mark Phillipson
>>>>> Cc: James Minyard , Peter Brecke , Kim Isett
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michelle and Mark...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you so much -- I've only looked for a short time at the sandbox, but it looks pretty terrific from what I've seen.
>>>>>
>>>>> And thanks for the technical information -- I completely understand that you're not able to offer detailed technical assistance. We're readying ourselves to attempt installation soon; perhaps we can try the installation, see if broad questions arise, and then schedule a call with Mark and Jonah if necessary. I do have a couple of questions about server type/sizing, and I've listed them below -- Mark, I'd be glad to set up a call if you'd rather talk about these than exchange email about them.
>>>>>
>>>>> One general question: I gather that this tool is pretty widely used at Columbia. I think there may be other areas of Georgia Tech that would eventually be interested -- particularly the writing program and areas related to media studies. Are there other areas of especially strong use at Columbia?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again--
>>>>>
>>>>> -steve
>>>>>
>>>>> Server type/size questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> -Ubuntu could be an option, but for us Redhat is more standard -- do you know of any reason not to try it on Redhat?
>>>>>
>>>>> -sizing: since MT doesn't store media, I assume that a fairly modest server can handle the activity. I know this depends a lot on how many users/classes -- but for one or just a few classes, we're thinking 4gb memory, 2cpu, 50gb disk -- does that sound reasonable? Also planning to use a stock "medium" mysql configuration unless there's some reason to provision it differently.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Michelle Hall"
>>>>> To: "Steve Hodges" , "Kim Isett"
>>>>> Cc: "James Minyard" , "Peter Brecke" , "Mark Phillipson"
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 3:38:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Mediathread questions
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kim & Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>> We've created four logins to the Guest Sandbox, at http://mediathread.ccnmtl.columbia.edu
>>>>>
>>>>> username: *
>>>>> password: *
>>>>>
>>>>> username: *
>>>>> password: *
>>>>>
>>>>> username: *
>>>>> password: *
>>>>>
>>>>> username: *
>>>>> password: *
>>>>>
>>>>> And, here are some quick answers to the questions you asked:
>>>>>
>>>>> * MediaThread does not store media -- it references and embeds media that is stored elsewhere (for example, YouTube). Once you play around in the sandbox this should be apparent.
>>>>> * We have had success linking to assets that are stored in Sakai. If you want to know more about integrating with authentication systems we would have to involve a developer.
>>>>> * Our lead technical architect, Jonah, and the MeTh project lead, Mark (copied here) would be happy to schedule phone calls to answer broad questions. As of now, though, we're not able to offer detailed technical assistance, but we are seeking funding to expand the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kim, I'd be happy to do have phone call with you to walk through some of the recent changes to the tool, and Steve please let us know if/when you would like to chat with Jonah and Mark.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to send them our way. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Michelle V. Hall | Senior Educational Technologist
>>>>>
>>>>> mhall@columbia.edu | 646.772.8612
>>>>>
>>>>> CCNMTL | http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 13, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Steve Hodges wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Michelle and Kim...
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice to "meet" you, if only virtually. Thank you for sharing info about Mediathread -- it looks like a really interesting tool.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm including Peter Brecke, our Assistant Dean for IT, who will also be interested in this topic.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sure we'll be having discussions here about possible approaches for implementing and supporting Mediathread. A couple of questions that have come to mind that might help inform our thinking:
>>>>>
>>>>> -For hardware requirements, I'm guessing a fairly standard web-server-class machine would do. But it seems like the storage requirements could be significant, given that the tool is for media analysis. Is that right?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Georgia Tech runs a course management system called Sakai -- it looks like Columbia may also be transitioning to that. Is Mediathread integrated with that system at all? It seems like they have some similarities, at least in terms of creating and populating class groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> -I see that your installation of Mediathread is integrated with WIND, which is a CAS-like system. Georgia Tech runs CAS, so I'm guessing integration would be reasonable to accomplish -- is it a pretty straightforward integration?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks very much -- apologies for jumping in with questions right away -- I don't mean to inundate you.
>>>>>
>>>>> -steve
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kim Isett" < kim.isett@pubpolicy.gatech.edu >
>>>>> To: "Michelle V. Hall" < mhall@columbia.edu >
>>>>> Cc: "James Minyard" < james.minyard@oit.gatech.edu >, "Steven Hodges" < steve.hodges@oit.gatech.edu >
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 3:46:03 PM
>>>>> Subject: Mediathread questions
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Michelle,
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you are well. Thanks again for all of the help you have given to me throughout the transfer. I have sent along the information to our IT folks on how to get and install Mediathread. however, there are some concerns regarding support etc. that we still need to work out. But after chatting with our IT guy, James, there were some initial questions I wanted to ask of you.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, James, Michelle, and Steve I am officially, if only virtually, introducing you all. (steve and James, see below for the blurb on what Mediathread is designed to do)
>>>>>
>>>>> Second, Would it be possible to get a demo type account for our folks to play around with Mediathread, so that they can be familiar with what it does?
>>>>>
>>>>> Third, assuming I can get the resources allocated to have some tech support here to use MT, will CCNMTL be available to us (meaning the GT IT staff) to answer some questions if there are any issues with the software?
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, one of the ideas that we are kicking around is that MT would be a useful teaching tool beyond my classroom (which is obvious to me, but I am the only one who knows what it does right now). So this might make it useful to have our folks work on this as a "project" and have it available to others. If we follow this route, would you or someone at CCNMTL be available to do a video conference to showcase all that it does? I use such a small range of its functionality, if I did this I would short change the product.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am excited to share your (CCNMTL's) fabulousness with my new colleagues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much,
>>>>>
>>>>> Kim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MediaThread is CCNMTL' s innovative, open-source platform for exploration, analysis, and organization of web-based multimedia content. MediaThread connects to a variety of image and video collections (such as YouTube, Flickr, library databases, and course libraries), enabling users to lift items out of these collections and into an analysis environment. In MediaThread, items can then be clipped, annotated, organized, and embedded into essays and other written analysis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Work in MediaThread can be shared with classmates or larger audiences, requiring students to formalize thinking, clarify interpretations, and improve arguments with evidence. A customized home page helps students track work being done by their classmates on shared items and projects. Instructors may also publish announcements, assignments, and model projects to the home page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kimberley R. Isett, PhD
>>>>> Associate Professor
>>>>> School of Public Policy
>>>>> Georgia Institute of Technology
>>>>> 685 Cherry St.
>>>>> Atlanta, GA 30332-0345 kim.isett@pubpolicy.gatech.edu (404)385-2586