making Maximum Tolerated Dose. It wasn't a really well thought out or highly constructed kind of strategic decision. Basically the way that I decided to tackle the subject was I was already making animal rights documentaries and I wanted to make a bigger contribution. I had done some shorter films but hadn't done a feature length film but I've always been really inspired by you know films like earthlings and peaceful kingdom and I felt like I could contribute something different so I was kind of like looking to do a bigger project. In 2010 I met a couple people who were formerly involved with the animal experimentation industry and so it all of a sudden kind of struck me that there was a story there. The name Maximum Tolerated Dose came from the first interview that I did. It was something that the first interview he mentioned as one of the tests that the scientists will perform to determine whether or not a drug is toxic or at what point exactly what it says and what is the maximum Tolerated Dose of a product before it becomes fatal or persistently toxic in an individual. And I just felt like it was a kind of oddly appropriate term for the film because of the subject matter and looking at essentially what was the Maximum Tolerated Dose of that these people and these non-humans could take before they had to exit the industry. You mentioned that you know it's kind of a tough not to crack and the people see it as maybe a harder thing to tackle than say animals use for food but I tend to disagree I think that because of the scientific aspect of animal experimentation and medicine and all the related issues around that I think it has the potential to be a much more like quote unquote winnable issue than animals use for food people. There's like a lot of cultural history of using animals for food but with animal experimentation it's actually a much shorter span of time that we're dealing with and we're already seeing people who say if we can get the same results without using like like public opinion is much more in favor of not using animals for the section if we can avoid it. So I do think it's actually in a lot of ways a much more winnable thing. So my response to that is always twofold one I always tell people that if they want to know my personal ethical position is that I don't think that human diseases are animals problems to solve. If we want to solve human health problems we should be endeavoring to solve those using human models as much as possible. That being said I recognize that the animal experimentation industries are going to go away overnight and I also recognize that a lot of people say that historically we've discovered x, y, and z because of animal experimentation so I don't suggest that we should throw hundreds of years of science out the window. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and we but we're in a position now where as technology continues to advance we can strive to create treatments and medicines that improve human health outcomes without harming animals and I think we're all generally in agreement that if we can do something without harming animals why wouldn't we? I often get asked if the film has made an impact in that community and I often tell people stories of researchers who have contacted me and who have said you know I used to participate in this industry and now I don't and I wish I had seen your film at the time and I've had a couple of people since the movie has come out who were at the time current animal researchers who have decided to leave the industry but I don't you know and I think that my film was maybe like part of this part of the soup that they were in that made them decide to do that. I think in a lot of animal rights circles we think of AR filmmakers as activists and I am an activist and I have been an activist but in making the film I'm a filmmaker and I have a lot I take a lot of consideration of like aesthetic elements it's it's really important to me that those aesthetic elements are there and that they're polished and that it's cohesive and and that sort of thing because if it's not then it doesn't feel like a film to me so yeah it's always kind of strange to talk about because some people get kind of taken aback by the idea that you can aestheticize a horrible subject but I think you can and I think that my film and lots of other films that are are coming out now are kind of evidence of us. As far as AR related documentaries myself and Dr. Lauren Corman have been starting to put things in motion to to do a film that looks at animal rights and intersectionality so looking at looking at how animal rights overlaps with other social justice social justice issues and how other social justice issues overlap with animal rights. They can order a DVD from our website or they can download the film from our website so if people go to maximum tolerateddose.org maximum tolerated dose there are links there to buy a DVD or to download the film in HD DVDs are almost out but the download link will be active for as long as as long as the internet's around and eventually the film will be on YouTube I've kind of been surprised that no one's uploaded it there yet but at some point it'll be up there as well.