How did you get into it? What's the story for anyone who's kind of interested in journalism or sports writing or anything? How does somebody start in that progression to get into that world? So I think my route was probably quite different because I figured out quite late that I wanted to go into journalism and then only when I was doing my master's in journalism I realised I actually sported as well, I want to be so I didn't undergrad in philosophy. When I moved back home to Manchester after university and I had no idea what job I wanted to do because I didn't really have, I was good at writing essays and I was good at arguing and debating but there weren't that many transferable skills from that degree and I kind of just thought like what do I enjoy doing the most and what I enjoy doing the most is talking writing, having conversations and I think well the perfect way to do that is to do journalism masters. So I went to London, perhaps what my things went down south, did my journalism masters people and obviously that was interrupted by Covid which was a massive shame because we had all these really big plans as I could think at the end of the masters called multimedia fortnight which is going to be like this amazing event of like fortnight of like different industry leaders coming in and assessing your work and obviously we couldn't do any of that but I got really lucky that one of the radio shows that we were doing as part of the course, one of the heads that talks for joined the Zoom call to kind of make up for the lack of this multimedia fortnight so he joined and I remember afterwards I think I just followed him on Twitter sent him a DM and said like can I come in for a tour of the studio one day, went in, they were really really accommodating really really nice, got on really well and then I got home that night and I think about four hours later one of the management takes me saying can you come in next week to start some work and that was just kind of answering the phone to listeners and I did that for about six months and then moved up to production. That's that's pretty unbelievable. That's one of the things I was going to ask you about because with such a relatively short career as you were saying you were sort of finishing your masters at around the time of COVID and all that kind of thing to then jump into and be so sought after for one of the better term that you're on to the flagship mainstream broadcast is radio and TV in such a short space of time. That's unbelievable. It's kind of almost like serendipity like right place, right time COVID. This guy just so happened to be part of your course and then yeah and here you are it's it's it's mad. I mean truthfully it doesn't feel like it's been that quick. There's been a lot of like slogging to go through and even now because I'm freelance you know I will go and you know I've got to tell the truth that I will go like five, six days without any work just because that is the nature of freelance reporting and you just have to say yes to everything so it has been a massive slog but the new opportunity in getting on kind of every Thursday morning on sky is literally like what dreams are made of you know have just grown up watching it and it's been absolutely amazing and as you say I think this industry and I think journalism in general but specifically sports journalism there just is a lot of look involved there's a lot of nepotism involved like there is in most industries but there is a lot of look you know there are times where one of the main reporters just hasn't been able to do something particular at talk spot and someone said well will you just go down all you have to do is record a little too many peace and then that goes well and you've got such a big listenership on that show put it on LinkedIn put it on Twitter and different people just kind of pick up on it so I have definitely been lucky but it's been it's been quite hard slogging it doesn't feel like it's been that short of career I've got to be honest. I just cast.