I think when we started, we were both sort of like not unicorns, but there weren't too many of us. We're still unicorns. Okay, yeah, well, as black female architects, we're still unicorns, but at least in terms of public interest design, we are no longer. Yes, that is true. My name is Liz Ogbu, and I'm founder and principal of studio of... My name is Deanna Van Buren, and I am the co-founder and design director of designing justice, designing spaces. I think now we are seeing in a lot of cities a process of gentrification, which has sort of been synonymous with the displacement of poor residents by wealthier newcomers, as the city which was abandoned as people moved out to the suburbs is now being seen as sexy again, and people are moving back in. And we're once again seeing a pattern where the poor and people of color are being displaced, and so what I want is it's not that these areas don't need new services, new resources, new housing, but we should figure out a way to allow people to have the capacity to stay in their homes and in those communities rather than saying we're going to repeat this cycle of displacing people again. So gentrification and incarceration, I mean in terms of the relationship that we see in it, is just where you build these things and relationship to the communities and neighborhoods, and the fact that when people are incarcerated they have to leave their community and they're in an exoskeleton. So their families are struggling, they're having to move around, but their partner, their husband is incarcerated somewhere. And when they come back, it's a bit of a disaster. There was never really many places for them to go because of the you can't get section 8 housing if you've been formally incarcerated. And then in Oakland there is no section 8 housing, so people end up homeless, right? So if you were incarcerated, you come back, people already being displaced, you can't get section 8 housing, so you just end up in the streets. So it's a disaster from that perspective, at least in Oakland where we're seeing it every day is our tent cities bloom. The Pacific project has less restorative justice and more restorative economics, so there are other concepts in there about bridging the digital vibe and fabrication for low income communities of color. We will have social enterprises on the ground floor, so this one really focuses on that piece. So how do you take the program of the building in the place and make it basically fund the project? So we're trying some weird new things, we're trying to be at the end of social impact investing, social impact bonds, how do you pay for things in a different way as opposed to your traditional developer who's just doing market rate, right? I got to make all my money back and I got to make a lot of money back. One of the interesting things I think is that a lot of times from the for-profit developers, they're definitely some evil ones out there. I don't think that can be disputed. But there are actually some who have a desire to do good or would are open to a way that allows them to create something that is financially sustainable but also socially impactful. But what they need is like a strategic direction that is helping them do that and it's not coming in and sort of waving the flag of like, oh the poor people, the poor people, you must do this. It's sort of having an understanding of their goals and trying to think, work with them creatively to try and figure out, okay, how do we make the numbers work? But how do we make sure that we are actually also sustaining the community? And how are we thinking intentionally about some of the things we're doing? Like I have a project in Charlottesville right now and we're working on housing. And it's a low income housing development that because of all the changes that have been done in federal subsidies for housing has to be developed as mixed income. That's actually the reality of a lot of low income housing development right now. There's no money coming from the government to do just low income. So you have to bring in the market rate. And what we started discussing is that if you start doing it just saying, okay, we're just bringing them here and that we solve the problem by the fact that they're both located on the same property. There isn't any integration in that. And so it's like how do we think intentionally about the steps that we're doing, whether it's like thinking about the manyties that we're creating, that there are manyties that both of them can come together, or doing things that start to build community and build bridges before you start bringing these groups out there to sort of say, let's not create something that's just repeating the sins of the past. I've been working in the Bayview Hunters Quake community of San Francisco, which is a historic African American neighborhood. It was industrial for much of its history. Had the power plant, sewage treatment plant, old naval shipyard, and also a lot of the city's public housing. And the community was actually the one who lobbied for the power plant to come down. It was sort of the first time that they'd all come together to fight for something. And it was a group of mothers living in public housing, next to the plant that actually led that fight. So it was a pretty amazing success story, and the power plant came down, but then less 30 acres in its wake, and the utility company cleaned those soil, but then capped it with asphalt so that the clean soil wouldn't blow away. So you had 30 acres of asphalt sitting there, and a five to 10 year development cycle at least. So my team of designers, which is me, my firm, and a couple other firms, were brought in to try and see if we could turn it into a community benefit in the short term. So we've been doing all sorts of programming, and in time to address some of the issues that Diana's been talking about, that the idea is that oftentimes with these development projects, you're looking at long timelines. And so it's how can you provide something that benefits the community now? And we can always be resourceful in figuring out things. So we do job training workshops, but we also do circuses, and try and create places of joy, as well as places where people can get skills that will allow them to get some of the employment that could help improve their condition. You know, when we build things themselves, how can we start to build some of the history back in? We'll see. And hopefully we can do that with either the retail component of something, or is there a way that we can have the community come in and do an art piece that's integral to the project so that we understand what was here. And who's still here? Who's here now? And what has happened in the past to make a mark on the land that way? So we teamed up with StoryCore, and we built a recording booth on our site, and we invited community members to come in and record the stories. And every story that's recorded in there is like an official story core recording. So it gets archived in the Library of Congress. And if you're African American, it gets archived in the Museum of African American History. So for many people, it was a way to say your story will never be lost.