Mr Van der Hof, what is the best way to put the human back at the center of the globalization process? To the best way to put the human back into globalization as a center of all things. The best way is to look from below, from below to be democratic, to see where the majority is at, and then globalization gets a completely different angle. I am a lot more interested in the globalization of poverty, which is actually going on, and not so much the globalization of humanization. That we have to do with people, with have still the wisdom to present to the society what is human and humanely surviving in actual time. Do you think free trade is compatible with fair trade? Free trade 1 doesn't exist, because this all packed up and cooked up. Free trade is very, very relative. Free trade as such, as it is working at the moment, is not compatible with fair trade. Fair trade goes along with specific lines. You have to pay the cost of production, at least that people have a dignifying way of living. It has to be democratically organized. The farmers and all the workers involved, but they have to have a say in it. And we don't work with shareholders. The few words on Maxavilar, of course it has now almost 20 years that it is going on, 22 years. And there are several stages in the whole process. And now it is more or less a movement, because there are different players in the market, Maxavilar, WTO, WFTO, the World Trade Organization. And in the thous, we established our own fair trade, which is more political, the Clark Seal. The coordination of Latin America and the Caribbean, together with the Africans we established in thous, thous, fair trade. And with this part of the movement, different angles here in Europe we have some problems, real problems, because we let in the big corporations, which are now ruling the game. We said from the disexec, exactly, collaborating with the devil in a way. So we have to cut it out. We are not against them. But we cannot work with them because it is a completely different philosophy and a completely different setup of what economics and what trade should be. We still defend fair trade, but fair trade for the producers and for the consumers. And we have still to struggle out and to sort out what it really can be. But that is part of the movement, to have that discussion. And there is a lot of discussion going on. For the thermat summit, I didn't have a clue what was it all about. One, it is far out for me to get all the way to Zermatt and then in a very nice hotel, et cetera. I have to custom myself to the environment, which is not my environment, it is very clear cut. But I think there are very concerned people here, thinking people. And with this assembly, I think we can make a step forward.