as a cause is with me now. 4 million people voted for us, which is great, but unfortunately the electoral system means it's very difficult to convert that into seats. But it's disappointing, but I think there are good reasons for us to actually be cheerful. We've got 4 million votes, which is extraordinary success. We're going to get a referendum in the next two or three years on EU membership, which is one of our core reasons for existing. And the other reason why we need a bit of optimism is because optimism works in politics, and I think we perhaps need a little bit more of it. But if you are going to get a referendum, as you've said, though many in UKIP were denying it before the election, you'd seem to accept the Miss Cameron will to... Well, there is a majority in the House of Commons for a referendum, and that's a historic event. Yeah, hasn't been like that for 30 years. But once we've had the referendum, whatever the result, whether it's in or out, what's the purpose of UKIP? Well, I think UKIP's future lies in replacing a court-purchased derogies labour party. It's significant we came second in 120 seats, many of those seats in the North of England. The disaffection that people in Scotland clearly feel towards the labour party doesn't stop at the border, it stretches all the way down into the old Labour-Hartland. And I think there's a tremendous future for UKIP in displacing the Labour party with a sort of radical popular capitalism. You're not going to get any real alternative from the remains of Kerr Hardies party. I think we need to understand. But the Scottish Nationalists don't stand for a radical popular capitalism. They stand for a position which is widely seen as to the left of Labour. And it's pretty hard for UKIP to do that. And you did it, but I'm absolutely convinced as a free marketer that the case for the free market, the case for popular capitalism, has never been easier to make. The problem is that the corporate system we have in this country is giving capitalism a bad name. But many of these working-class communities, particularly in the North, where you've come second, and there are disillusioned with Labour. But they're disillusioned with Labour, because they feel that under the market system, they've lost out. People have done well, but they haven't. I don't understand how more market is going to attract them to you. Well, I think if we had a... I think there's a huge space in the political ecology, if you like, for a genuine radical populist free market alternative that is not in co-hooks with big business and corporatism. I'm going to sell that in Hull. It hudders field, it rochdowns. It's going down pretty well in the clackton. But that's... Well, yeah, clackton is a different place. And even then, it may be because it's gone well in clackton. I think in the age... You have a big person who's following there, don't you? In the age of Amazon, the case for free trade has never been easier to make. We need to start making it. In an age where bank bailouts are outrageously putting public money into the pockets of big corporate interest, I think the case for real, genuine free market reform can be made. We need to make it. In terms of the market, you would... Let me get this right. In terms of the market, you would position yourself to the right of Mr Cameron and hope to sweep the labour north. I would like to position myself around about where the old Gladstoneian Liberal Party used to be. And they used to do rather well in the North of England, I seem to remember. A long time ago. If you believe in... I wasn't around, that would happen. If you believe in localism, or returning power to civic communities, if you believe in limited government, if you believe in accountable politics, I think there's a huge new exciting agenda that can create... We've got a very firm base already. As I say, we came second in 120 seats. And I think there's a huge opportunity there. My point is to come back to this, because I think it's the important. I know you're all very happy you came. It's a consolation prize. You came second in all these seats and only first in your seat. But it may just be if we have the referendum and the European result is taken, an immigration is no longer such a big issue as it has been. And you're not that formed of harping on the better immigration anyway, that you will just seem an irrelevant by 2020. Well, I beg to differ. I think the real driver for UKIP, and something that we need to get even better at doing, is there's a tremendous sense of anti-politics, a tremendous sense that the established political parties are not really doing it. I mean, we talk about the conservatives having a great success, and they do use them, they won this election. They only got 36% of it. I think there's space for a new party that comes in and creates the opportunity for real, far-reaching political reform. Isn't the realistic thing for you to politely ask the conservatives to let you back in? Yeah. The Tory parties far too patrician and corporatist for me. I will, as UKIP's MPB pragmatic, if they do sensible things that are in keeping with change and reform, I will support it. But I feel that the future for UKIP is looking bright. We're in a good position, I think, to make big gains in 2020. And I'm very excited about this European referendum. Who would be the person that could most deliver as leader the strategy you've outlined to me this morning? Well, I've ruled myself out, and the reason I've ruled myself out is because I can think of at least half a dozen people who could do a much better job. So who would you like? You've got a choice between, I think, Patrick Fling, Suzanne Evans, Stephen Wolf, Paul Nuckle. I know the choice. Who would you like? Let's wait and see. Let's have a conversation. Let's see what they've got to offer in terms of tone, in terms of style, in terms of approach. Mr Farage has strangely left the opportunity open that he could stand again. Would you welcome that or would you just sway them from that? I think Nigel's earned the right to have a bit of time, and I think all of us, all 50,000 of us in the party, need to reflect. We're a mature party. We're not a one-man show. So, should we start the game? I think we need to listen to what the other candidates have to say in terms of tone and style, and I think we need to take a considered decision in September. Very well. Dr. Scousel, thank you very much.