We're talking now to Mick and Joy of the International Times, which is London's underground newspaper. First of all, Mick, how did the International Times start? Well, the International Times is really a little malcom of a lot of small magazines which were published by various people throughout London in about 54 or 56. Eventually someone had come together and pulled the resource and decided to publish it. I told you newspaper. I see, what is the current circulation of the newspaper? 35,000. About 30,000. What sort of things do you hope to achieve with the International Times? Do you hope to affect government policies or just people's outlook on things or what are the sort of policies behind the newspaper? Basically, the policies behind the newspaper really to provide a firm for people who are excluded from mass media. New in some matches, if you have a few of the sufficiently emeraldic or non-conformance that the National Press or the TV won't touch it. Then you know, it's in terms of providing food. All this summer we've had all the sort of trendy and slightly boring things like flowerpire and hippies which you've had to contend with. And the International Times, reluctantly, has been drawn, I think, to a certain extent into this circle of trendy things. And yet at the end of the summer, after everyone is supposed to be beautiful and loving and understanding, the country is still as gruelting as it was at the beginning of the summer. Probably more so. What do you think is going to happen next? Where do we go from here? In the first flowerpire, it's probably a very naive conception. Obviously, it's just a sort of commercial entity initially. Well, yeah, the Franks App is quoted in the flowerpires and you wear wrapping garbage. What do you hope to achieve with the International Times and the future, though? Do you hope to try and change anything? Well, firstly, it's such a precedent for getting outside the system. This is probably its biggest moving force in the country. Certainly in the cities. It has eventually woke up people's ideas to the fact that, for some instance, you want to be a journalist. Normally, if you wanted to be a journalist, you went along as some sort of a trainee at Beaver Brook newspapers. You worked your way up. Now, it's such a precedent that it's possible to start your own newspaper. Do your own thing immediately. You just really have to find the means to start. Is there much in the way of official harassment by the police and other law enforcement authorities? There was, go through the summer, when raided once by the Vice Squad, where it was seen publications were. There's a lot more sort of fairly undercover harassment through presumably government authorities putting the arm on printers, not to printers. So, I don't know who the authorities are because they never really come out in the oven, but putting virtually kind of stopping credit and removing facilities, but putting pressure on banks and printers. Also, join yourself in concern with the sale of posters to what sort of sale do you have on the posters. Now, they are available in Holland. I believe they are available through Hitmeet magazine. I'm not sure the details of this. They definitely are available in Holland. The posters, actually, sorry to catch you, but the posters are an example of this, a land of ground where I think it was saying about the way international times were preceded precedent. This is really, a land of ground economy starting now. I hope to grow larger because it really means that when that's established, people can work and have the capital to work on their own thing or art music. What have you? Just pure merchandising without having to resort to normal banking methods, normal economic things. This, I think, is the way that the movements can start to change things. In other words, you can develop an entire subculture independent of the... Yeah, virtually, a parasitic economy, but which is prepared to stand on its own feet if the host, or it's obviously intending to break down the host and virtually destroy it. It's system anyway. Finally, to change the subject, you're also, in addition to being involved with international times and posters and things, you're also the lead singer of the deviance. I understand that you will shortly be appearing in Holland, so give you an opportunity to get a small plug in for that. Yeah, we're doing the A-flat to the Lonelands Paradise, which is a sort of 12-hour marathon pop show. Which we'll be talking about a bit later on. Yeah. When is that? That's November 24th. We do it with Arthur Burns, Mother English Groups and great many Dutch groups. I think we should be very nice.