I think you can't be successful without having failures and I don't think that success leads you anywhere because when you're successful you tend to repeat those things you already know how to do and they become terrible crutches nothing like a good sloppy failure to wake you up and make you reinvent. When I began working on environmental projects and I didn't understand materials yet and I didn't understand what was possible and what was impossible I think I did things that were incredibly creative simply because I didn't know what I was doing where now I find it harder to be as innovative as I think I was earlier because I know too much so I have to find something that I really don't have to do but I find that that's always the most exciting challenge to be to be ignorant and I like it when I'm I kind of am making of some big mistake or doing something that you're not supposed to do like painting a whole building or you know that sort of thing you're people thought yeah why do you do it and then it becomes iconic but you don't you don't know it at the time just that would be great you sort of make a photoshop rendering and you think wow I mean I started out as an art director art director and record jackets and I used to do about 150 covers a year and they were all squares and they were all the same and I was in my 20s and it was an absolutely great job but I never thought I would be designing the insides of buildings or the outsides of buildings or rethinking parks or doing massive global identities or painting I didn't think I'd be doing any of that designers have to grow because otherwise design doesn't grow designers as they're producing and and making things cannot rely on past successes because that is the path to mediocrity if you make what is already perceived as good by definition your mediocrity you have to find the next way to do it that hasn't been thought up before very often you make failures on your way to do that because it involves experimentation and it involves risk taking what I try to do to make those sorts of graphic breakthroughs is to work on projects either where I'm totally in qualified for the job so I don't know what I'm doing and I make a mistake by accident that turns out to be terrific or I take a piece of design a project that is a I can take on a pro bono basis usually for a graphical and so organization and experiment with it and that these things are very important to me and I do that I would consider that R&D you know that it's part of maintaining a viable design practice is that you are always looking to grow and to change that if you're if you are in any form of business and you do the same thing over and over again and you're not growing and changing with your time and not looking for the next best way to be expressive you will be out of business it's not just true for designers it's true for everybody