Today we're at Carbon Steed, a bike painting and carbon fiber repair business where owner Gary McDonald is going to tell us what he thinks of the elves and the tri-fox frame and ultimately which is the best build quality. I've also come to Taylor Cycles where expert mechanic Jay Taylor is going to give us his thoughts on both frames and the sensor empire. Groupset. So let's get into it. Everything looks nice and it looks like somebody's sized all this stuff. It's very consistent. Before Gary continues you might be wondering, no no bloody John is bike which I'll explain towards the end of this video and you also might be wondering why I have two frames when this project which I explained in detail up there was really a vote from you that audience on what frame we should select for this cheapest race bike build project but we have two. Here's the thing when I put these two bikes to vote it was a very close call on two bikes the elves, falaf and the tri-fox x10 or times 10 on both voting platforms. So I thought why not buy both and let Gary and Jay decide, note that the elves frame with their integrated bars comes in at a touch over 2000 AUD and as an Aussie I really liked how the elves offered a Australian website with Australian support and the tri-fox came in at a touch under $1400 AUD. So yes there is roughly a 600 AUD or $400 USD price difference between these two frames but I feel like we're playing in the same ballpark and four reference the windspace t1500 which we also built up on this channel which is actually a true race bike being UCI approved these two frames aren't comes in at $2,500 AUD delivered now offering the bars included in the frame package. Yeah that internal route in cable is a little bit ugly there but by and large it's pretty that paint job inside that is so nice is that right I would mind betting this is special. Yeah it's not terrible yeah it's got you know yeah yeah I'll have a look on the magnifying glass just like I think it's just you know one of the big names would have it shaded over there you know I see that you couldn't see it so I wouldn't crucify them on that. Okay threaded bottom bracket yes threaded just is absolute isn't it you know yeah I see it is specialised and going back to threaded. All right. It's nice Gary. Me? Yeah what do you got on? It's quite thick in the middle of the tube compared to virtually on most bikes you know. I will talk about it upstairs. Have you ever heard of these two frames before? Never never okay. And I don't follow tiny bill frames you know it's not it's not our core business and we don't I don't feel bad about it. I'm not bad. Two of San Diego says it's almost too nice you know for a mass produced type thing the gloss area is very nice paint job and then it's got the nice little fade from gloss to matte which well yeah it takes a little bit of thinking about all that but that's why I said did they know this was for you because it it looks good. So here's the thing I ordered all these parts under my wife's name to mitigate this from happening. Can you confirm that all bike parts were purchased in your name? Definitely were. Okay and what name do we use? My maiden name. Thanks for supporting us with this project. Thanks for supporting us with this project you've got a big bit of spinach between two. Whether these businesses or brands could still have figured this out I don't know but I tried my very best. It's other lower quality you know that's probably what you'd expect to see in a Chinese frame you know. There's divots in the top tube you know dirt inclusions in the paint a few blisters and things like that nothing for you to say oh my god that's you know throw it away send it back sort of thing. Yeah it's of the quality I would expect whereas this one is not of the quality I would expect and even when I look inside the tubes everything's finished off nicely you know I was saying before you know they've nicely you know finished off the edges of the bottom bracket and in well everywhere really whereas this one they haven't as I expect to see a Chinese frame everything about it is yeah like I'm not saying it's bad quality but I'm saying it's of a lesser quality. A lesser quality to this yeah none of them you know this one looked like it had a thicker top tube than this one but I didn't find anything you know I didn't go over every inch of it like you know to say was there a void around here or anything like that thinner in the middle top this one was quite thick in the top tube. So all as a top tube really does is stop these bits coming together. So wherever they can save weight they save weight the top tube doesn't need to be strong so it's thick here and then thin thin thin and then just like the old double but it's still tube you know like thicker at the ends thinner in the middle. So if you were going to rely on which one would you choose this one yeah without a doubt no question yeah. Here it is ready for an unboxing good afternoon here we are and who do we have here Paul Paul Patrick Patrick we are ready. This bad boy before we get back to jail let's quickly weigh these frames I'm 179 centimeters I normally go like a 54 or medium in the elves I'm an extra large which is a 54 little bit strange but let's weigh this thing 12 80 grams for the elves uncut fork 385 grams and in the trifox I am actually a medium trifox 12 45 grams 410 grams. Do you enjoy that way in mate? It's a good boy's any. Ruffer's guts yeah yeah why do you say that the first thing I looked at was the head tube where the bearings are meant to sit in and it's actually rough and sharp no it should be smooth why is that? It's a baby's bottom because that is where the bearing is meant to sit in there okay and yeah it's just chunky sharp sheets of carbon you look down through here it's the same thing very stiff but it's extremely to rattle a little bit flexi for how thick it is so and then you look at this one yeah very very clean in here yeah a beautiful surface there for the bearings to sit in top and bottom it's nice and clean in the frame very clean bottom bracket area oh look at that waist if I add a nice little paint job there it's got a chameleon yes it's called green gold green gold green step Gary definitely picked this one yeah 100% what are we sticking what are we sticking on there Joe um it is sense I'm fine this stuff over here so clearly after watching that you should know we're going to be building up the old fellith I think that's how you say it frame if you want to see this thing get built up and turn into our first impressions and long term review don't forget to support the channel by hitting that subscribe button below and to be honest I'm kind of glad we did end up here because just pulling these frames out of the box instantaneously I thought this was the better looking frame much cooler and it just felt like better quality as well so I wanted to wrap up this piece despite the fact this will be my last Chinese bike project for some time I feel like I'm kind of at the end of the road with this rabbit hole now because I've received quite a lot of criticism enough criticism to warrant a little one minute segment here on why I keep doing these Chinese bike build projects reviews etc and there are three compelling reasons in my little well which I wanted to share with you number one you will know if you followed this channel for some time of always incorporated bikes into my content because it's a way to keep content fresh people are interested in bikes I like bikes too and I remember back in the day used to call specialised or advanced traders can I get my hands on this bike for three weeks this bike for four weeks and that's a sure no worries take it and I'd make some content and then a month later I'd get another bike and do the same process all over again now because of what's happening around the world if I call these brands and ask for a bike I basically get laughed what a dickhead off the phone so these bikes are a lot more accessible number two bikes have gotten ridiculously expensive and I feel like the pool of people that don't have 10 grand or don't want to spend 10 grand on a bike is growing and I feel like I can help those people through my network such as Gary from Carbon Steed, Jay from Taylor Cycles and Aaron from Trilogy Cycles to uncover what cheaper alternatives are actually of good quality and engineering standards because personally from my work in this space I believe these Chinese based products are still quite hit and miss so helping people uncover what is actually worth while investigating gives me purpose in what I do as a YouTuber and number three and perhaps most importantly I am genuinely curious about this space I want to do these projects and if somebody is going to send me some aggressive communications about what they think I don't really care because this is what I want to do but the fact is I have had a number of communications and that means I can probably times out by a thousand in terms of people thinking this way so for those that wanted to lean in and understand my world for a short minute that's the reasons why if you got value out of this video today please don't forget to give it a like it really helps the channel out and if you want to see the guys at Carbon Steed, Painter Bike which is their specialty I'll put a video either here or here somewhere that you can check out now.