We meet the man who has studied on the internet about flying objects for a living. I think we need a new career. I know what I just want to find out. I just want to talk to him. I thought it was after the break. Welcome back to the show. Our next guest is an Irishman who was a PhD in biochemistry from Trinity College. And never predicted it would lead him to one day being hired by the US government to study on identity by flying objects. Yes, former program manager of the Defense Intelligence Agency's Secret UFO program. And call author of Skin Walker is at the Pentagon. His column, Keller and column joins us live from the US this morning. Column, thank you so much for taking the time to have a chat with us. This is a subject that everybody I think is fascinated in before we dive into that. You might just tell us column how fellow ends of country and college and ends of getting recruited by the US government. Tell us about that. Well, it was actually a series of very strange coincidences, but I was working in Denver, Colorado in the late 90s in an immunology research institute, mainstream science. And I saw this bizarre ad in science magazine, which is sort of the mainstream, like top science journal in the world. And it said, we are looking for people to research the origin and nature of consciousness and the universe. And it was the most bizarre ad I've ever seen. So I just couldn't resist it. I picked up the telephone and it turned out that this organization Las Vegas was hiring to join this very secret organization. So several steps occurred and I ended up being a program manager for the Defense Intelligence Agency for this $22 million program that was studying UFOs. I mean, the whole thing was, are UFOs a threat or are they friendly? What is the agenda? What is the performance? So it just was a whole series of weird coincidences. I never thought that it would happen, but it did. What was this program specifically and what did it reveal in your experience? Well, the program was started in 2008, $22 million program that was funded through the Defense Intelligence Agency. And the whole focus of the program was to study these, the performance of UFOs because UFOs have been seen globally for decades. But this was really the first serious look from within the intelligence community to determine whether or not the UFOs were actually a threat or what they were doing, what kind of performance they had, what kind of technology they were using. And frankly, like who owned them? Because we had these high performance technology operating in the United States, Earthspace, and nobody seemed to know what they were doing and where they came from. So we spent 27 months total. We had a full-time staff of 50 people. I actually hired pretty well everybody on the team. So we had PhD level scientists, we had engineers, we had military industry, military intelligence people, we had database analysts, we had security officers, and all of them were fully focused on this question. So when you found what you found, you might tell us first of all what sort of stuff you discovered, but when you discovered what you did, what was the US government's reaction to the data and results that you then provided them with? Well, that's a very good question because the initial program was actually for at least five years. But the data started rolling in very quickly. Once we had hired a team, we had like I said, 50 people on the ground, we would go to various places in the United States and measure UFO performance. There was one classic case that was off the coast of California, which was a near-crop carrier that launched a bunch of fighters to intercept these UFOs. And you know, broad daylight, these things in these UFOs interacted with the F18 fighters. And the performance of the US was absolutely astounding. So I mean, it outclassed the best technology in the United States military. And easily, I mean, it went from a sort of a start just above sea level. It went to about 25 miles in a couple of seconds. What is it? What is it? What was it? Well, I mean, that's the whole point that the whole point of this was that it was pretty obvious from the performance of these things that this was nothing in the United States military. So then the next question was, who wants some? Was it are these Chinese drones? Or are they from Russia? It was pretty well determined by the end of the study that number one, these were not American special access programs. They were not owned by the Russians and they were not owned by the Chinese. So they were a technology that was being deployed, woolly nearly in the United States, Earthspace. And nobody, absolutely nobody seems to know where they came from or what they're doing. But we know that they are not from, like I said, the United States from China or from Russia. So you couldn't rule out that they didn't come from this Earth, but you also couldn't rule out that they were from some sort of alien technology. Well, we did rule out that they were from, we ruled out that they were either American, Chinese or Russian. So I guess when you go through the process of elimination, you come up with this is a technology that is being deployed from an unknown origin and it's interacting with the United States and interacting all over the world. But does anybody know exactly what the agenda is of this? We have no idea. Can you tell us about Skinwalker Ranch? Because that is where a lot of the work that you were involved into plays. And there's reports that a lot of military personnel who visited this ranch had some very strange experiences after it's been they went home. Yes, that was part of our, that was part of our program that this ranch in northeastern Utah, which is sort of a grand central station for UFO activity has been going on for decades. So it was part of a quote of quote paranormal laboratory that was part of this 22 million dollar program. But to cut a long story short, defense intelligence agency deployed a whole bunch of military intelligence analysts up to this ranch to see basically to evaluate and corroborate to see if these stories were true. So I turned out that every single one of them who were deployed on this property came face to face with really bizarre activity. Sometimes that caused them a lot of fear. But what was really bizarre was that once they went home to the east coast of the United States to their families, it turned out that a lot of strange activities started erupting in their households. So their wives and their children would wake up at night and they'd see this strange humanoid black shadow standing over them in their bedrooms. They would see these strange orbs of light that would be flying through their houses. So a lot of very strange activity. It was so common actually that we call it the Hitchhiker effect, which is basically when people were on this property or have close encounters with UFOs, they quote unquote, raw something home with them. And this happened again and again and again. It happened to me. It happened to everybody who was on this property and it became a sort of a very, very common occurrence. We still don't know how to explain it, but it certainly was happening to a hundred percent of the military intelligence people who were deployed on this property. You put those experiences and those stories into a book, SkinWalkers of the Panzacan, which is, you know, it expands on what you're talking to us about here. Is that right? That's right. We use the term SkinWalker as a sort of a umbrella metaphor for all of the strange things that we encountered associated with UFOs. So the main key of this is that our program started a process that happened last year in June of 2021. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence made a statement saying that, you know, unidentified flying objects are real. They may constitute a threat to US national security and they certainly constitute a threat to our safety. So that was a watershed moment in 2021 when the United States government officially recognized UFOs as being real. And then two or three days from now, there will be the first congressional hearings on UFOs in for the last 50 years. Nothing has happened in terms of acknowledgement of UFOs. And so our program was the first step in this multi-step process. It's incredible and utterly, utterly fascinating, chatting to you, column. Listen, we really appreciate your time. Thank you for taking our call this morning and best of luck with everything in the future. Thank you, John. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you, column. Column's book, SkinWalkers at the Pentagon is available. Amazon. Science fiction is becoming science. My goodness. Now Paul is over the kitchen trying to digest everything he's just shared. You all right, O'Medelo? Yeah, I didn't need to sleep. I don't need to sleep for the next couple of days. I'm totally okay. Orbs and shadows and things. Yes. I'll like to become a bump in the night. At least I'll have some gorgeous food to get me through. Cut it up. We've a one-part tasty Indian beer alley for your Sunday night dinner. We'll see you.