Now, when it comes to child children, as a parent, it's difficult to know whether we should push them out of their comfort zones to discuss shyness today. Jenny Hale, a parenting expert from the parenting place, and Jennifer Pollard, who was known as the kids coach. So, go ahead and see both first. Jennifer, how do you know whether a child is simply introverted or they're quite anxious? I think that's a really great question to ask, because in the Western society, I think we play such a great emphasis on being socially extroverted and friendly, and we value leadership skills that often the quiet power of introverts can be overlooked a little bit. Introverted children, they tend to be a bit quieter, they often are a little bit more reserved, they may like to play more solitary games on their own, or they might like to have a smaller social circle of friends, whereas shy kids, while they may also be introverted, they're actually feeling very uncomfortable in social situations, and the thought of that engagement joining in, maybe looking at adults in the eye, that actually provokes a bit of anxiety in them. It does make them feel quite anxious. Yeah, so there's social skills involved for both, and obviously very important, but the reasons underlying that reluctance can be very different. Quite different. Yeah, Judy, as you in your role, do you see a lot of parents getting quite frustrated with their shy kids? Or very frustrated. I mean, if you've been shy as a child yourself, you often think, I don't want my child going this way, I'd hate them to have the limitations that were on me, and they will often be reactive and a little bit pushy or just sort of, yeah, insistent or, yeah, that's probably me, because I was shy as a child, but I also like to perform, and I think one of my sons is the exact same as that. So what should you, I mean, as parents, what should we do? Should we push them in those situations where we feel a little bit uncomfortable when we want them to look somebody in the eye, because it's good manners? I think, you know, social skills are very important, and we definitely want our kids to develop those skills, but the amount of pressure that we want to put on a child, I think really depends on how our child responds to that pressure. If you notice that you're putting pressure on your child to perform in that way, and they're actually putting the brakes on and their anxiety levels are going up, and they're not able to manage that, then we might want to look at the social skills that they need to develop, and perhaps the emotion management skills as well. So once we're giving them those tools, then they may be able to better behave in the way that is socially appropriate, and obviously going to be better for them long term. And also as parents, we want our children to be light by people as well, don't we? Jenny, do you come across this as well? Yeah, I think that pushing is a hard word, but Nudgeene is a nice word. Like that. Yeah, and we can get that through. Look at our children, little opportunities to kind of exercise that friendliness. So it might be that you get them to make a phone call, and you're there with them, and you're rehearsed it with the titties or whatever, and you know, they don't get what they really want until they've actually made the phone call. I think too often we jump in and say, alright, I'll make the phone call, you know. We say hello for our children, we label our kids as shy. We often do things too quickly, and children do better when they're given opportunities, and that means sometimes we sit on our hands and wait. And there's an awkward sort of silence while someone talks to our child, and they're not saying anything, but we shouldn't jump in too quickly. Okay, so just give it a moment. Don't jump in quite as quickly. But shyness isn't addressed when the younger can it cause problems later on in life? I think in the majority of cases shyness can increase with age. I was shy as a child, I was a shy extrovert, and I overcame that shyness, obviously. But for a lot of people, it's the reverse of that. So I often say that, you know, the patterns of thought, speech, feeling, and action that we're setting down in childhood are actually the things that we take with us. Those are the patterns. I really want to set them up with positive patterns from the get go. So just quickly, what's one quick tip from you about how to help your shy child? Okay, so one thing that I teach children in my classes and in private coaching with them, when they're having difficulty looking people directly in the eye, I'll get them to look at this space right here. So they're moving towards that behavior, but it's not as confronting for them. And with practice, they're able to actually start looking people in the eye as they become more comfortable. So that's a great way to do that. And quickly, is there places for support when you've got shy children, if you need some help? Yeah, I think you should talk to your friends. You've got children who are happy to get out there and talk. I think that going to a parenting course, seeing a coach, something like that. Shinas is something that we really want to kind of nip in the bud and get our children to walk over because it accesses so many other things. And people get to see who your child is, and you don't want them to miss out on your lovely child. Well, it's been lovely having you both in here, Jenny and Jennifer. Thank you so much. A pleasure. We will have you back anytime.