Like this is a really useful thing to know if you're ever having a discussion with an intimate partner for example Is that you have to put their argument back to them in terms they agree with it's very difficult So I'm gonna try to do that and so the first thing is I think I Think that partly what's driving you if if this is accurate is that You want to ground a structure of ethics in something solid and there's two There's two things you want to avoid two catastrophes, let's say one is the catastrophe that you identify With religious fundamentalism and the other is the catastrophe that's associated with moral relativism Is that is that reasonable? Yeah, that's good. Okay good. Okay, well Okay, so it's crucially it's crucially important that we get this right now so And that's something that I think we really agree on because I've conceptualized that slightly different than you and that might be relevant But I think of that as a pathology of order and a pathology of chaos