See you again, it seems like every time I talk to you, there's a new crisis last time it was after the assassination attempt. Now you're under house arrest, you're back in court tomorrow. How are you doing? Well, as I had said, my life is pretty exciting. You'll never know what's going to happen the next day. It certainly is. It's certainly unpredictable. Just before I came on air today, you've now been in addition to the 150 different violence and corruption charges that you're facing. They've now put your name against this murder of a lawyer who was pressing for a case against you for sedition who was killed on Tuesday by four government. What is your response to that? There's I don't even know the name of this guy. It's after all. Again, I repeat. It is the case, didn't even register on my radar. Of course, I had nothing to do with it. Everyone knows I had nothing to do with it. People in his family know that I had nothing to do with it. The other charge is emmon, there's 150 of them. It's a huge amount. Obviously, if you're convicted of this, you'll go to prison presumably for a long period of time. What do you feel about this? I mean, you're back in court tomorrow. You'll decide whether you can go back home under house arrest or presumably whether you will be incarcerated. What is your general view about what is happening to you? I have 17 bail guesses tomorrow. All the judge has to say is that one of the bail he refuses to give me bail and I go to jail. So I'm mentally prepared. But you know, there's what is happening in Pakistan. We are back to the dark ages. I mean, there's no rule of law left here. If you, what has been happening to my party, 10,000 of our workers are in jail and the judges give them relief and the police picks them up in other case. So it is the law of the jungle right now. I mean, it's never happened in this country before. Your critics, your enemies, they say you're getting what you did to others in the sense that the military turned on you, but to start with you had them on your side, that you, when you came into office, were putting people in prison who shouldn't have been with trumped up charges and so on. You heard this charge against you. What is your response to that? First of all, it's never happened. Even in military dictatorship, what is happening now? But secondly, do you know, 95% of the cases against the opposition, I inherited. They were from from the previous governments. In fact, when they were in power, there were only 5% of the cases and it was nothing like what is going on now. If you end up going to jail for a long period of time, what will happen to you, to your party, to the movement, to all of them? Look, why is this happening? This is happening because my party, BTI, is now the largest party in Pakistan's history. I mean, the ratings of the party has today, that all the parties on one side, they realize that they are no match for this party. The movement is so powerful today. And that is the reason why this is happening because they are now petrified. The people who removed me, are petrified that whenever an election is supposed to be in October, whenever there are elections, my party will come back into power. Hence, they are trying to completely dismantle the party. I would say that the support from world leaders has been pretty deafening with its silence in the main. Do you wish you'd have more vocal support from maybe the British Prime Minister, where she's soon now, the American President, Joe Biden? Would that be helpful? Look, it appears in my three and a half years as Prime Minister, I discovered one that this morality and the so-called Western values about democracy, constitutionalism, rule of law, fundamental rights against custodial torture, all that is happening in Pakistan today. Yet, I think the interests of the powers of Britain, the US, I think they are more aligned with our military for whatever reasons, maybe because they're supporting them in Ukraine. I always wanted an independent foreign policy because I 80,000 Pakistanis died when we joined the US war on terror, and I was against it. So, I think maybe that they feel that they're interested more served by the current regime. And whenever that happens, you know, all these professed values go out of the window. I mean, Rishi Surnak is currently in Washington with President Biden. What's your message to both of them if they're watching this? My message is simple. First, leap countries only sort their problems out from within. But the professed values of United States and United Kingdom I repeat is democracy is fundamental rights, rule of law. I mean, whenever they criticize Hong Kong or China with the Uyghurs or Russia, they always talk about the lack of human rights and fundamental rights and lack of democracy. But here, here's one standard democracy, and all these values have been violated. Yet, not a word from them. But, you know, I didn't really expect much. In my, on a human level, you know, I've spoken to you after people tried to kill you and they came very close to killing you. That was just six months ago or so. You've got a family, you've got these two young sons. You tweeted recently, the only thing I miss these days is hiking in our northern mountains with my sons. And that was a very human thing to tweet. And I, as a father of three boys, not dissimilar age to yours. Now, that really resonated with me. How are you doing on a on a human level? Well, it's a, you know, huge sacrifice. Because what is happening right now is we are basically fighting for rule of law and democracy. On the other hand, we now have we are heading towards the worst type of dictatorship. It's a banana republic right now where the judges now are no longer independent. They are threatened. Media is completely muscled. My name is not allowed to be mentioned on the media. And you can't diminish the biggest political party by the steps they've taken, these draconian steps. So, therefore, what is a threat is a democracy or future. So, there's no, you know, it is a, this has been one of the most toughest years of my life. Are you able to see your sons? No, I can't. This is too dangerous a time for me to ask them to come over. And, you know, I am confident that this is, this is not going to last very long because the system cannot take this much longer. The judiciary is, is, is overall right now. It's cow down. But the judiciary has a past 15 years. It's asserted its independence. So, at the moment, it's, you know, the, the terror, which is in Pakistan, it's a rate of terror. I mean, people are frightened. People are picked up in the middle of the night. It's like in, you know, in the Nazi Germany. You know, Emron, each time I talk to you, I always reminded that, you know, I spent my formative years down at Sussex County Cricket Ground watching you bowling magnificently for Sussex. And you were one of my sort of heroes then, cricketing heroes. Do you ever wish you just hadn't gone into politics? I mean, serious question. Given the impact on your life, the danger, the threats, the assassination attempts and so on, do you ever wish you just, you know, had an easier life? But, Pierre's look in Pakistan, there are two ways. One is when you're going to politics as a political career. In my opinion, it is the worst career to ever choose. I would never suggest politics as a career to anyone as a career. Secondly, is the politics where you, you are so privileged, I had more respect than any other Pakistani. And I tried, what I wanted to do was to, what I, by the way, what I first saw and admired in England when I went there as a teenager, rule of law. We had never had rule of law in this country because we had dictatorship. Either we had dictatorship or two families, but they never allowed people to have rule of law where people fundamental rights were protected. And as a result, the country's not, we don't, we never knew freedom, real freedom. First time I saw what in England when I went as a teenager and I discovered how rule of law and fundamental rights liberate a whole people. So my movement started 27 years ago. I realized that unless we have rule of law, we have no future. Whatever you will always have a birth on Pears Morgan Uncensored. I've spoken to you numerous times in the last year. It's been a quite extraordinary period in your life. And I'm living it in vicariously, sitting here safely in London. I wish you all the very best. And hope next time I talk to you, it's in, in a certain slightly calmer circumstance. Inshallah, thank you.