The workshop is essentially about exchange of information between Africa and Asia in terms of conservation and management of great apes. And it was kind of born out of a workshop that we had in Massindi in Uganda last year, organized by the International Institute of Environmental and Development, who are based in London. And I was invited to go along and give a general overview of the orangutan situation in Asia just from a different perspective. And one thing that became clear from the workshop was that there are incredible synergies but also differences between the way great apes are managed and conserved on both continents. And what we thought was we bring together African practitioners and policymakers to Asia and with their counterparts to Asia, sit down and we discuss issues related to lessons learned, if you like, from best practices in Africa, for example, eco-tourism is much more developed in Africa. And compared to the situation in Asia where the orangutan conflict, if you like, is somewhat sensitive but also very pertinent and contemporary at this moment in time. What we've come up with is a series of policy recommendations that are applicable for both continents and will be developing a policy brief and disseminating that as part of a concrete output from the workshop. The other thing we want to produce is a series of best practice guidelines linking great ape conservation to poverty alleviation. Most great ape ranges occur in areas where people are very poor. The pressures on the populations and the habitat that they're in are often generated by poverty but also linking the poverty angle with development issues. So here in Indonesia, one of the major drivers of orangutan threat, if you like, is the expansion of oil palm, for example, and clearing orangutan habitat. In Africa, the pressures are more focused on small-scale farmer exploitation of forest and conversion. And so it's sort of marrying these two issues, if you like, and creating some kind of policy environment. And so we'll be choosing a series of best practice guidelines of how you integrate local livelihoods into great ape conservation. And here we are in the Nieromantang area where there are a number of islands where orangutans are being rehabilitated with a view to them being released into the wild. And so this, again, a very interesting perspective in the African situation where wild great ape tourism is very well developed and it's something that we're looking into promoting here much more as well. So the three main subjects we've been looking at in terms of the policy implications of great ape conservation in Africa and Asia are the possibility of red plus, co-benefits, contributing towards conservation of great apes, issues of human wildlife conflict, and thirdly, rather, ecotourism. So we've developed a series of policy recommendations based around those three themes. The first red plus, co-benefits include biodiversity conservation. So that could include protection of great ape habitats. So by default, if you like, great apes could be conserved through long-term payments to preserve carbon in high biodiversity value forests. In terms of ecotourism, the sector is much more well developed in Africa, for example, Roranda and Uganda, obtain large contribution if their GDP comes from great ape tourism. In Roranda, I think it's the third most important income generator and access to foreign exchange. And in terms of human wildlife conflict, we're looking at ways to mitigate the ways in which humans and great apes come together and basically are forced into conflict situations. And so those three pillars, if you like, will form the basis of these series of policy recommendations. Ecotourism is very interesting because in Africa, the ecotourism sector is very exclusive. It's high value. You pay $500 for a license. It's very well controlled. The guidelines are extremely strict. You're only allowed to view the apes for up to an hour. It's very, very closely controlled. But because of the exclusivity, people are willing to pay a high premium. In Asia, it's much more part of the mass tourism industry. So people come to Indonesia. And the ticker series of boxes, so if you like, you do Barobodor, you do Bali, you do orangutans. And so there's less emphasis, if you like, on the exclusivity. And I think unfortunately, there are some fabulous places to see orangutans. Tension-putting, for example, here in the Aramanteng, you can be your guaranteed of seeing them. And it's actually very cheap to do so. And I think there's a greater willingness to pay on behalf of the tourists than that is actually being exploited. So there's a lot of potential in the ecotourism sector in Indonesia and in Malaysia, for example, to increase revenue and make it a place more value, if you like, on the ecotourism sector. Bringing together practitioners, I think, is facilitated in that process. It's been the most valuable. And you can see behind the camera, there are guys who practice orangutans conservation in Asia, exchanging experiences with guys who are doing the same in Africa. And that's the real value of these kind of workshops and seeing things in the field as we're doing now. In terms of future activities, and we're hoping to produce these best practice guidelines, series of best practice guidelines for great conservation and poverty alleviation. And maybe that can be expanded to a wider remit. And one thing I'm particularly interested in, this is issue of Red Plus. And how high biodiversity for us, which include great apes, can be included under the Red Mechanism. And perhaps as we're discussing future plans, that may be the emphasis of the next workshop between the organisers between IID and C4.