So Michael, thank you very much for speaking to us. Yes. You're now no longer a member of Parliament. It's a long, long time since you've been in this position out of Parliament. That's a first time in my life I'll be out of Parliament and no longer. I'm out of Parliament and no longer would be referred to as a member of Parliament. One of the things that I've seen recently are these cabinet papers that have now been released after 30 and 40 years from the 60s and 70s. And one of the things these Australian cabinet papers, one of the things that's very interesting is how pessimistic the Australians were about the future of Parliament. When you get in there was almost a relief that Australia was getting rid of this problem. How do you feel now about that sort of attitude? Well, I think that as I said, it's a lack of understanding the indigenous people and their kind of thinking. I think the administration set up here for people to work closely with people with wind and a side. But I don't think they did a good job for us to understand each other. And one thing I remember very well is that I was a school teacher. I taught with a lot of Australians in secondary school, Utu secondary school and Tussleman secondary school. I can speak the same English language as I speak. I can work with them, talk to them. But when we get out of the classroom, I'm treated as a different person. But yet at the same time, we know each other very well. And I think that's one thing that Australian mistake they made was when they were administering the place. They may have taught us we would be bunch of people like what they did with the Africans, the British and the others did to Africans. And the whole of Africa, same attitude, they created hatred between the indigenous people and themselves. Australian administration created that. And it's whether them or people who came to really colonizing, because I remember going through a tobacco factory in Garoka, you know, Matusa, South African. He was running at the tobacco factory and playing kids 12 to 15 years of age. And how that man called Matusa mistreated them, I went through with the group of Australian journalists. You were not one of them at the time. I think Gus Miles was. Gus and myself. I said to Gus, look, don't worry about me. I'm okay. I'm talking to the boys here. And they left me outside. And they were invited by the South African. All Australian journalists were up drinking tea and on the balcony of the South African Matusa. He later on owned the Arabic motra. But he wouldn't let you in. He wouldn't let me in because I was wearing my lap lap and my sandal. So they're not good in his eyes, you know. That's how, you know. And this also created everywhere in Papua New Guinea. In the hotels in Kabya, exactly the same. I thought with three Australian teachers there. Even though I always reckon myself. I was very nice man after all. I don't have any hatred in me. And I thought, you know, they treat me the same. We would work together. Only one Australian, I remember very well. I didn't cook a friend, a good friend of mine. He was teaching in upper classes at grade 9. And I was teaching in grade 7 and 80. So we were very good friends, you know. We'd go out and drink together, do everything together. You know, drinking was forbidden. But I got these house and they say, have a cup of coffee and never glass of beer before you go. And we were very good mates. And there are some Australians like that, you know. They were, I would reckon that there are just journalists and teachers and medical officers. They tried to understand people more, better, you know. And I think that was one of the problems they created themselves. Not friend to the natives. And you know, in the elevates, special branch people will come and get me a number from administrative staff college down there. Tell us, give us more information, no, it's happening. And of course, we were already politic, I was already politic here. And I said to special branch people, yeah, I'll come and give you information. I said, I don't worry, I know all of them. I said, I was giving the bullshit and really information was in me. So that's a kind of thing, you know. Because that created the, not in a positive, but kind of, you know, dislike. Dislike for people, you see. So, do you think Australia should be paying more attention to pop when you can eat these days? This day, yes, I should be paying more. I would have thought that independence, you know. We would have keep Australian teachers here in our schools. There was a very rapid localization, wasn't there? Lots of people went. Rapid localization, and that's quite true too. Rapid localization, trying to do things quickly. Well, in our part too, I was the main contributor. Because I wanted to see them go out, but I didn't look at education in the health. And considering myself, I should have considered that area, and people of Australia, on that area, for example, you know. That period leading into self-government, an independence, was a very challenging one. Wasn't it? You had Papua Bessena trying to break Papua away. You had Boganville troubles. You had trouble in the Mutang and... Yes, it was. Looking back on it, are you a little surprised how well you managed to pull it all together and get P&J to independence? Yes. A good thing about New Britain was that I knew and about very well. Because my father spent 30 years as Australia's policeman. And I knew that all I was when I grew up, you know. And that's the attachment I have about my father. And same in New Ireland too, because he was an instructor in the depot in the mouth. He knew a lot of new Indian islanders like Palau. For example, Palau and I became members of house assembly at the same time. Palau from Manas. Palau, Malatya, CSS. And a good thing about it is my father had a lot of influence in the New Guinea police force and Royal Coast Ability later. And I think that's a thing that brought me about to go, to know a lot of people in the islands. So Michael, I won't keep you much longer. But I'm interested now that you're no longer in the parliament. Do you have any views about the amount of money that is now going under these electoral development funds to individual members of parliament and whether it's being well spent or not? I don't think money is well spent. I can honestly tell you I know that because I spend all the money. I have all my returns, never question all my returns. Everything I spend, you have to get the return to the Ombudsman. They look at it, go to the finance, they have a look at it. Everything is on the line. People are not spending the money as they should spend, you know. But a lot of money been given out to our people. But the way they spend it, the way they draw money around is not the right way to do it. Do you think it's a mistake having so much money available for members of parliament? It's not a mistake. I think it's good to help members to be able to stay in one job for a long time. I was fortunate because I became the leader four times in the country. So I was able to maintain my contacts in the villages and inlets and islands and everywhere. I use radio all the time. Every time I go from parliament in Potmosby, I broadcast to the two civic provinces. I broadcast to them, give them the details, everything we do as members of parliament. Next year, next parliament is going to sit. We have proposed legislation to bring. This legislation meaning a fact to this type of life that people want to live. So I was educating my electorate. My electorate, as I said, most, not respectable because of me, but educated because I give them information all the time. Or everything that I do. So I'm well kept in the logbook. So Michael, you're going to be very much missed. So thank you for talking to me. Thank you. Let's talk to you again.