I'm a bit worried about this rhetoric about just focusing on deaths. I mean, we know that most of the critical care admissions are actually under 70 years. Most of the cases are well below that. And we know that many people suffer from long COVID. So 10% of people who get infected have long COVID, which we don't fully understand. So they have symptoms lasting for more than 12 weeks including in children. So the idea that we accept a certain level of deaths and morbidity of a disease that we don't understand, which will also potentially to virus adaptation, which has already happened and threatened our vaccine response. Over the idea of elimination makes no sense to me given that there are many countries. Why don't you think we're able to eliminate COVID? Actually, it's much more likely that we'll be able to eliminate COVID, which is something other countries have done than achieve herd immunity with vaccination. We're still trying to always keep trying. You're the clinical epidemiologist. You tell me that you're talking about the likes of Australia, but they've eliminated it so far. But of course, it could go back at any time, in any country, especially when borders are open again, especially when people start going on whole days again. The long term is I thought what you experts were telling us was the long term is we're going to have to live with COVID. It's here to stay in life. Well, I mean, I'm really concerned that this is what the scientific, a lot of the scientific community in the UK seem to be saying when there is another strategy with less uncertainty associated with unfarmo evidence behind it, then the idea that we live with it and accept a level of deaths and morbidity from a disease that we don't understand fully. And the potential for virus adaptation that we've already seen, which can render vaccines less effective or even an ineffective over time. The idea that we're going to open schools without any mitigatory measures, any additional mitigatory measures and not see the surges we saw before, to me, is really unrealistic. I think one of the problems here is that if we're going to say to people, we're not going to go from schools, we're not going to have an abd economy until we've eliminated this disease and the transmission of this virus, it's a pressing forever. I'm not saying that. I'm saying put mitigatory and safety measures in schools before you open them. I want to see mask, mask cues. I would like to see a filtration ventilation devices, but carbon dioxide monitors. I would like to see them in cars to wear masks as they are in many other parts of the world, including in Europe. This is not something new. And I would like to say, air filtration devices, air purifiers and schools with carbon dioxide miters that meet the standards that CDC, the CDC also recommends that primary soldier and wear masks. I would like to see that. I would agree with this. We are not seeing outbreaks in primary school children in schools, and that is very, very clear. We've been working on the absence data from schools from September to December. We just don't see it in the data. Actually, I agree with what's been said, it's more the risk of the other types of mixing that happen when schools open. It's not the school environments themselves. The public health. The public health England surveillance data shows an equal number of outbreaks in primary and secondary schools consistently. Right now, the outbreaks in primary schools are higher because the attendance and primary schools are higher. I'm talking about this. I'm sorry. You're a medical professional. I respect that. How many children from primary school age have been admitted to hospital with cuss off from COVID? I can tell you the data from primary and secondary schools have been 30. How many children from primary schools have been admitted to hospital suffering from COVID? That's not, see, that is a different point. It's about whether children get ill. I'm talking about whether children can transmit to others in the community who can get ill. Those are two seven questions. You're basically saying no one should mix with anyone at all, never? No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying put safety measures in schools. I'm saying open schools with safety measures. How is that saying nobody should come into contact with anybody else? I didn't say that at all. Well, because what you're going to be saying then is we're saying primary schools should open and secondary schools as well. We're going to be talking about employment circumstances reopening. And so if you're going to place restrictions like that on young children, what sort of restrictions you're going to place on employment environments? I'm talking about the school environments as safe as workplaces. You know children can get long COVID between 12 to 15% of children infected have persisting symptoms after five weeks. Do you really want to expose children to that risk when you don't understand the law? He is. Are they suffering? Yes, they are suffering. It's very clear. How many have been admitted to hospital? You're suffering from COVID. So you're saying that them suffering from long COVID doesn't matter if they don't get admitted to hospital? If they seriously are with a bit of a bit of a hospital, so it's okay if they're dysfunctional. It's okay if they are not functional, if they don't get admitted to hospital. It's okay if they transmit to their parents and other vulnerable individuals in the community. That's fine. Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying anything. I'm challenging the position of people suffering very badly. What have laid down is very much what the CDC and WHO guidance suggests even from primary school children. Yes. Are you saying that the 12 to 15% of children infected have long COVID? So are you saying? Yes, I'm not saying this based on anything that I'm saying. It's based on the ONS data that's been released on children that shows that 12 to 15% of children have. That's the Office of National Statistics. Yes. Yes. I am gobsmacked by law. Well, it's right over there. One in eight primary school children. One in seven secondary school children. Yes. And what are the symptoms? What are the symptoms? They're a combination of things that cause children to have accommodations fatigue. Yes. Michael, did you know what you're saying that one is seven children have suffered from COVID? Have suffered from long COVID. So if they get in a way, I'll be also left with an infection. Let me talk about amongst children of school age. So the current prevalence. So the current prevalence among school age children is 1%. So one in 100 children currently in the UK have infection. After children who have infection, 12 to 15% have persistent symptoms after five weeks. This is all from the Office of National Statistics. So we're saying so. So we get the facts here. So 1% of children have suffered from COVID. And of that, that 1% will say that 10 to 15% have suffered from long. Yes. One percent. There is no percentage of women. No, no, no. Do not miss quote me on this. Today, one in 100 children in the UK have COVID. Right? Of that percentage every single day. So this is on one day 12 to 15% will go on to develop long COVID. If you look at the numbers of children infected, they're huge. They're in the millions. Sorry, sorry. I, I, I, it's just the first time I've heard this. I know you're saying the statistics are available. I'm going to go live with these statistics tonight. Well, I'm in bed after the show because I find it interesting. Well, please do. I find it interesting. I find it gobsmoking. So in this country, you're saying that there are millions of children infected. Yes. You are saying that the UNS Daffer, which, which, which state that woman seven of those children infected will suffer long COVID. Yes. That is what the UNS says. And there are millions of children who have been infected. Yes. So if there are millions of children who have been infected, then that would suggest like, do you know how many million? No, I don't know how many million have confirmed infection from primary school. I know that the fact that that has been, but that would suggest that we have at least hundreds of thousands of children in this country with long COVID. Well, I just looked at these at own statistics and it seems to claim that actually about half a million children have so far been infected with COVID. So, but your statistics would claim that it's about 70,000 that would have been suffering from long COVID. So it's way below the several million that you just said. So the half just a minute, half a million are confirmed cases. So you will find that children are much less likely to have symptoms. So if you look at the UNS data, you will see the prevalence in children throughout this. So particularly through October, November has been 2 to 3%, which is much higher than another age group and suggested by the confirmed cases. And the UNS data include asymptomatic and mild cases as well. So the 500,000 that you're talking about is a huge underestimation because it's based on system based testing. And so, Deep, you're saying that you believe and the data that with hundreds of thousands of children in this country, we will have long-term symptoms like what? Long-term symptoms like just pain, breath, breathlessness, cough, exhaustion, gut symptoms. The UNS is a list that they collect data on and all of these symptoms. One or more of these symptoms persist in children for more than five weeks in 1 in 7 to 1 in 8 of children who get infected. And these are children including children with mild and asymptomatic infection. So they don't need to meet the criteria that you're talking about a symptom based testing. Because parents listening to you tonight, they will go, they will look at those, that way, in this data. If this data is robust and if there are hundreds of thousands of children in this country with long COVID, I put a completely different perspective on opening up the schools before they're vaccinated.