So you talk a lot about money in your work, or at least in your earlier work, you were in about money often, and scarcity and the sort of role with that. So why do you think artists and art, so creative people, why do artists not make money? Obviously there are some, if you have a big blockbuster movie or book, they make money. What is it about just the everyday art? Because it's like they're giving gifts. Most artists are gifting something for free, so I'm just curious your thoughts on this. Yeah, that has to do with what I call the cult of quantity. And the economic system that's related to it, which is based on the exchange of commodities, I mean, money itself is a measure. It's a quantitative measure. And when you, so it works really well if you are using it to exchange standardized things that you can reduce to a set of specifications. I want to order 5,000 widgets from you, and I want them at this weight and this level of purity, et cetera, et cetera, like I can specify that, and market competition can operate. But an artist, a true artist is creating something not just good enough to meet a set of quantitative specifications, but an artist is in service to the work itself that, and wants to make it, wants to fulfill that work, regardless of the demands of the market, of the boss, of the art critic, of the customer, the market. Like we can detect art that tries that, it's called a sellout, when it's no longer in service to itself, but it's in service to something external. And that's what lends it to commercialization. So if you don't do that, if you are a faithful artist, there's no guarantee that you're going to produce something that is acceptable to the market. You might get lucky. Like I'm not saying that just because something does well commercially means it's a sellout, but the converse is very often true, when it's not a sellout, it often does not do well on the market, because you're not doing it for that. You know, do you consider yourself an artist? Yeah, I do. Yeah, sometimes I spend inordinate amounts of time on just one sentence, because it just doesn't sound right. And so we're going to get the point, like anything that I could specify as it's practical function. It works, you know, but it's just, it's not right, you know? So yeah, and yeah, I'm not doing it solely for aesthetic purposes. And in fact, the exporting of art onto aesthetics is a big problem. Art is not something separate from practical work. Art is not something separate from practical goals. It's in service to those goals, but not only that. And or you could say that the full service to the goal depends on things that are beyond our understanding. Like probably if I write something that's really beautiful, that is more beautiful than it has to be. Mm-hmm. It probably actually serves what it has to be even better than I understand.