A third of a three-starete message with the word Kent, lots of you talking about veganism as well. After the TV presenter Chris Packham said, we need to have labels on packets of me that show how the animals live, the conditions they're kept in a bit like we do on cigarette packets for hell. Well, let's discuss this now with Joey Carb Strong, well-known vegan activists who join us in the show today, morning Joey. Hello. So, there's lots of issues really with putting pictures on packets that there might even upset vegans walking around the shop. So, where do you stand on this? I think anything that deters people from eating flesh or animal products is a good thing. I don't really know how they would facilitate that though, like getting this horrific footage from a certain, horrific conditions from a certain farm. I think maybe showing what happens in the slaughterhouse is probably more important because even in the most high welfare free-ranging farm in England, they all go to a slaughterhouse to be stabbed in the neck, strung up by their ankle and had the blood drained out of their throat. So, I think what happens in the slaughterhouses is probably more important. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I guess we'd need to believe if we weren't going back to whether we had the individual farmers, a bit the point that Claire made. You see the chickens running out in the field? How do you know that is the field that those chickens are living in? So, we'd need the farmers to sign up and A, they probably wouldn't and B, they were not going to sign up to having slaughterhouse pictures because that's really gruesome. Yeah, it's gruesome. I think they use these happy free-ranging pictures with the grass to perpetuate this image of humane farms and it makes people feel comfortable. But all those animals, whether they're in horrific conditions or amazing conditions on the farm, go to the slaughterhouse with all the rest of them. And I suppose a lot of people would say, well, actually, in this country, we have very high animal welfare standards and they would say that we are very kind to the animals and we kill them in the right way. So, what's the problem? The right way to kill someone, I don't think there's no humane way to take someone's life from them. And where are all these humane farms? I mean, the ones that you see the cows in the pastures, but the ones that are really horrific are hidden from the public's view. Also, I want to make a point like we do label cigarette packets, cigarettes cause lung cancer, but in fact, the biggest killer of human beings is heart disease, trumps lung cancer by a mile, and saturated fat and cholesterol are found in animal products. I know this is in a secret in a health community, in a scientific community. So why not put labeling on process meats, class one carcinogen as well? That's really interesting, because actually we spoke to someone from cancer research UK just after six o'clock this morning on that very issue. And the only issue though with that, she wasn't in favour by the way, is that, you know, for a lot of people who are living in poverty, process meat is the way that they can have a success. And you might be classing people out, do you see what I mean? No, but we got rice beans, vegetables, corn, pasta, or the cheapest foods in the supermarket, and they don't cause disease. And we're feeding children process meats from gas chambered pigs. If children knew what they were eating, oh my God, they'd have nightmares. But, you know, these are known carcinogens, they cause heart disease, and number one killer of human beings. Why not put labeling on them? But you are, you are here, Joey. I mean, with respect, you're making some of this stuff up, aren't you? I mean, if you look at, I mean, you mentioned about animals being stabbed in the neck. What sort of slaughterhouse have you been? Every single animal gets stabbed in the throat. They have their throat cut. They get shot in the head and stabbed in the throat. They get their throat cut. Their throat is cut, isn't it? It's not stabbed in the throat. Well, I see. Well, pigs are stabbed in there with a meat killer. Their throat is cut. But what I'm saying is you're in, what? You're in high-perfect. You're in high-perfect. To make your case, because you don't want people to be eating meat. Well, I can show you. Most people in the, animals being stabbed in the throat. I'm sure you could take the worst practice, and I could probably show you the best practice where that doesn't happen, where government vets are on site, and you have a complete, clean and humane approach to, to, to slaughtering animals. And most people don't have carcinogenic issues. Most people don't have diseases, because meat, meat eating, is mostly safe. If you have an inbalanced diet, if you're not eating the right things alongside it, you might get a bunch of tumors and cancer, and your heart goes ping at some point in your life. But for most people, that isn't going to happen. Those people live a healthy life, eat meat or their life. Love every bit of it. Nothing goes wrong. Some people smoke cigarettes till they're 90. You know, and some people can smoke a bit of, the average person doesn't die through each and each. It doesn't mean you know that. You know that. You know that. You know that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer, and just because some people can eat meat their whole life, doesn't mean eating meat doesn't cause heart disease. If you eat the wrong meat, the signs must clear. If you're going up against the whole scientific community here, when you say eating saturated fat and cholesterol, it doesn't cause... No heart disease. Nobody said it doesn't. If you eat too much of it on the wrong meat product. I want to see this slaughterhouse where animals aren't getting a knife in their throat. Where's this magical house? A knife is used, yes, in the slaughter process. It's called slaughtering animals. I don't know any other way to do it. Yes, chain minutes. Would you rather they used a hammer? How else are you meant to dispatch an animal that's in a slaughter? How are you supposed to do it humanely? Because you stunned the animal first. The animal is so stunning. So, stunning a human being is okay if it's done humanely. We're not talking about human beings. We're talking about the food show. Which is what's the difference between stunning someone in the head and slashing their throat open and stunning a cow and the head and slashing their throat open morally. So you make no differential between taking the life of a human and taking the life of an animal? Well, you can't seriously believe that. You can't. Pigs have the intelligence of a three-year-old child. Now, what is the moral difference between a pig and a three-year-old child? So you would argue that there is no difference between taking the life of a human and animal. You raised the point that there's an ethical issue here and I'm simply countering it back. That in fact, there is a moral difference between us and animals. What is it? So you wouldn't support the idea that people can look for a... Well, you're saying there's a moral difference between a three-year-old and a pig. And what is it? Tell me. I want you to tell me... I want you to tell me... I want you to tell me what the moral difference is between a three-year-old and a pig. Because we have a food chain, because we have a pecking order, because we have a diet, because we have... It is quite a thing. If we have the ability... Does a food chain mean moral? Does a food chain mean ethical? Well, why are you... Why are you the barobotor of morality? I'm asking you what the moral difference is between a pig and a three-year-old and you can't answer it. But I'm asking you why you believe you can set that moral compass where you want it to set. Why? I can set a moral compass for... We have a food chain. We adhere to your own moral system. But we are building... So you adhere to a moral system where you don't think human beings should be stabbed, but you don't adhere to that same moral system you have a double standard for pigs. Now, I'm asking you what the moral happens to think that a pig... I answered your question. What's the moral difference between a pig with the intelligence of a three-year-old? And a child... That's three-years-old. What's the moral difference? What is the greatest contribution to the planet Earth of a pig? I answered a question. I'm asking you the question. You answered a question. What is a pig's greatest contribution to the... What is a mentally... A person with mental disabilities contribution to the world doesn't mean they don't have moral value. We shouldn't treat people based on their intelligence. We shouldn't treat people immorally based on their intelligence. We shouldn't treat... Okay. So, excuse me. We shouldn't treat pigs immorally based on their intelligence levels. That's fine. And that is your view. But you have to understand. You have to understand not everybody follows Joey Cobb's strong worldview. Well, you have a moral system for human beings that you adhere to and we have a double standard for animals. And there's no moral difference. Or a different... It's a different moral system, perhaps. Well, there's a double standard. I don't think you guys are going to agree on that particular point. But I would argue that more people are coming round to Joey's point of view. Because the rise in veganism among young people is actually off the scale, which is why you see all of the aisles in, I don't know, MLS weight troze, wherever you are. There is an aisle. Yeah. You know, it was levelled by a farmer at a Leron Joey that actually some of the things... We're going to be talking about the planetary reason to go vegan. Not just about saving animals, but about the planet actually. The environment. So, you know, soya, wiping out large parts of, you know, third world countries and quinoa... 91% of animals on deforestation is for animal agriculture. Because it's all going to grow in soybeans to feed to livestock. It's not for tofu. Climate change, ocean dead zones. All of this, main contributors from animal agriculture alone. So, I mean, we can talk about other environmental factors like palm oil, but nothing comes close to animal agriculture. It is good to eat less. I mean, I don't think anybody. I mean, I have had three vegetarian meals this week. I mean, I'm not a... I've got this. He in the meeting. Wait, wait, wait. Are you opposed to animal cruelty? Am I opposed to animal cruelty? Yes, I'm not opposed to animal cruelty. So, why? For what reason, if they don't have moral value? If I... Because I don't want to torture something. So, why don't you want to torture animals if they don't have moral value? Why don't I want to torture animals if they don't have moral value? I didn't say animals don't have any moral value. So, if it's wrong to torture an animal, why isn't it wrong to shoot them in the head? So, it's okay that if I went outside and start kicking a puppy, you're saying there's no difference between that and the process in a slaughterhouse. Well, I don't... Is it okay to stun the puppy's humanity? Joey, I don't believe you can believe this clap trap. Is it? You cannot eat it. You're a grown man. He is. Okay, just stun the puppy's humanity. Who wants to stun a puppy? Well, he wants to stun a puppy. A puppy isn't part of the future. We don't eat dogs. A food chain isn't important. We don't eat dogs to eat. So, they do in China. I'm talking about morality. We're not in a goodness. We're a progressive country. I'm talking about morality. We have standards. We have standards. We have rules. We have a pig and a dog. What's the difference between a... Yeah, what is the difference between a puppy and a pig? A pig is a six months old when their gas chamber is stabbed. You can't answer that. They're not part of the food chain. I can't answer that either. That's why I'm vegan. I'm not part of the food chain. I can't answer that either. That's why I'm vegan. I'm not part of the food chain. I can't answer that either. I am satisfied that we have a humane food chain in this country. Sometimes goes wrong. Sometimes goes wrong. I'm going to ding the bell and call time. It's been interesting. It's been going for a fair trade. Round two next time. Good luck with that. Listening to that word, you say, what is the difference between a pig and a puppy? I see what he wants to know. 0800 756 double one, double one. Some dogs have snouts. Some breeders snouty face. We met a dog on honeymoon. We met a little snouty face. It's really cute. Nice. It was. It's a good man, Joey. Joey is a well-known vegan activist joining us in the studio right now. You're listening to BBC Radio Kent. It is the wake up call with Ian and Ann. I think we've run out of time to do the new, if we've run out of time to do the new, okay? No, we've got plenty of time. Look at the news headlines. We have got the news headlines coming. Okay, that got a bit heated. He could not answer my question. Get that to my question with a question, which is like classical dodgy. If you can't answer me what the moral difference is between a three year old child and a pig, stop heating pigs. Stop heating pigs. OK. What's the difference between a three year old child and a pig? Stop heating pigs!