Open Source Meeting/2009-07-09

* [14:00] Rob Linden: hi folks
* [14:00] Winne Woodget: hi rob
* [14:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: hello
* [14:01] Aimee Trescothick: hi Rob :)
* [14:01] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rob :-)
* [14:01] Rob Linden: we don't appear to have anything planned for our agenda
* [14:01] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
* [14:02] Youri Ashton: hello rob
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Things have been a bit hectic in recent days
* [14:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: I have something for those working on SnowGlobe :)
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov
* [14:02] Youri Ashton: sorry i didnt comment on the smoketrail yet for snowglobe, kinda was real busy with hellen keller day
* [14:02] Sebastean Steamweaver digs through his links to find the list.
* [14:02] Youri Ashton: hey merov
* [14:03] Merov Linden: hey guys
* [14:03] Rob Linden: I'm thinking this may be a good time to go through the open issues in http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW
* [14:03] Sebastean Steamweaver gave you SnowGlobe Galaxy - Newborn.
* [14:03] Youri Ashton: good idea rob
* [14:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: This is the most sparsely attended opensource meeting I've seen yet, but then maybe people come a little later o.0
* [14:04] Rob Linden: I fixed up the version list so that we have "Snowglobe 0.9", "Snowglobe 1.0", "Snowglobe 1.1" and "Snowglobe mysterious future"
* [14:05] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
* [14:05] Youri Ashton: i dont know about the last one :p
* [14:05] Youri Ashton: first time i hear about it :)
* [14:05] Aimee Trescothick: :D
* [14:05] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sounds like a B-rated sci-fi movie title ;)
* [14:05] Youri Ashton: lol
* [14:05] Morgaine Dinova: Revenge of the Killer Globe
* [14:05] Rob Linden: here's the list of issues we haven't scheduled yet: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10100&fixfor=-1
* [14:06] Rob Linden: should we step through that list, and see what we need to fix for 1.1?
* [14:06] Youri Ashton: hi darv
* [14:06] Morgaine Dinova: Great!
* [14:06] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Darv
* [14:06] Erinyse Planer: hello rob may i join in this hour?
* [14:06] Aimee Trescothick: sounds like a plan
* [14:07] Rob Linden: first up: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10100&fixfor=-1
* [14:07] Rob Linden: oops
* [14:07] Rob Linden: SNOW-72
* [14:07] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-72
* [#SNOW-72] Fonts are not readable / unacceptably borked
* [14:07] Pixel Gausman: Rob: have a timeframe for 1.1 yet?
* [14:07] Rob Linden should just rely on jira-helper
* [14:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi there Darv :)
* [14:07] Darv Linden: Hey Morgaine, Sebastean
* [14:08] Rob Linden: Pixel: we haven't nailed anything down yet, in part because I've not done a good job of cat herding. however,
* [14:08] Morgaine Dinova: I wonder is that Jira of Aleric's would interact with my two font-crash Jiras, which Soft imported last week
* [14:08] Pixel Gausman: meow
* [14:08] Youri Ashton: not sure if the reporter uses a clean install or not
* [14:08] Youri Ashton: may have a big difference
* [14:08] Rob Linden: I'm thinking we should probably have a low-ambition maintenance release where we primarily fix up SNOW-2
* [14:08] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-2
* [#SNOW-2] Curl crashers
* [14:08] Merov Linden ducks
* [14:08] Merov Linden: k, working on it
* [14:09] Pixel Gausman: ok, so 1.1 will be pretty quick then.
* [14:09] Merov Linden: I'm building new versions of libcurl using c-ares for DNS lookup
* [14:09] Rob Linden: + what's already in
* [14:09] Merov Linden fighting some lindenlib script insanity...
* [14:10] Rob Linden: + some minor maintenance stuff. our creative team is also working on some replacement art for the stuff that's in there now
* [14:10] Youri Ashton: soon you get a complete new list of things to add rob, but you will know as soon as Philip has that list :)
* [14:10] Rob Linden: let's take a look at the list of stuff and see what we need to make sure we get for 1.1
* [14:10] Youri Ashton: all aid tools for people witha disability
* [14:10] Erinyse Planer: rob will the pie menues and the local chat behavirs be more like in 1.23.4 (final) in the 1.1 snowglobe?
* [14:10] Rob Linden: back on SNOW-72
* [14:10] Pixel Gausman: ok. I've been working on porting the OGP code forward to Snowglobe, and it's a fairly large patch. I'm asking timeframes on releases to see when I should shoot for gettng that done.
* [14:11] Morgaine Dinova: Pixel++
* [14:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: Erinyse, the pie menu has already been synched with 1.23.4 in svn
* [14:11] Rob Linden: Pixel: what's the soonest you could submit something?
* [14:12] Pixel Gausman: Rob: it will be a while. I have to finish it up, and then let it go through our process for releaseing open source
* [14:12] Rob Linden: that's the kind of feature we might consider planning around, but we'd need to be able to see the patch first
* [14:12] Pixel Gausman: don't look for it til August at the soonest
* [14:12] Morgaine Dinova: Eeek, lawyers
* [14:12] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine, yeah IBM has a few lawyers
* [14:12] Morgaine Dinova weeps
* [14:13] Youri Ashton: SNOW-72: perhaps try to dupe it? I think it might have been caused by a older version of snowglobe that was not uninstalled prior to the installation of the new version
* [14:13] Rob Linden: k....we shouldn't plan on that for 1.1 then since we should be able to get 1.1 done no later than end of July
* [14:13] Pixel Gausman: Rob: I understand, that's something we'll want to look through pretty carefully, patch wise
* [14:13] Pixel Gausman: definitely not 1.1
* [14:13] Pixel Gausman: 1.1 is cleanup and low risk stuff
* [14:14] Morgaine Dinova: Pixel: what is it intended to hook into, OGP-wise?
* [14:14] Rob Linden: on SNOW-72, I think Tofu's question is a good one
* [14:14] Pixel Gausman: Morgaine: it works with lindens agent domain, as well as one that we're working on. :)
* [14:14] Morgaine Dinova: kk
* [14:15] Rob Linden: I'm marking that one as post 1.1
* [14:15] Rob Linden: (mysterious future)
* [14:15] Rob Linden: next up: SNOW-83
* [14:15] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-83
* [#SNOW-83] trying to play audio causes nasty crash on Ubuntu-equipped netbook with Intel Graphics card
* [14:15] Pixel Gausman marks herself "Mysterious Future"
* [14:15] Aimee Trescothick hums the Close Encounters theme
* [14:17] Rob Linden: anyone else see SNOW-83?
* [14:17] Youri Ashton: 1 thing that i dont understand, what has a graphics card to do with sound? unless its a combined one with sound card
* [14:17] Sebastean Steamweaver loves that theme, heh.
* [14:18] Youri Ashton: well the user has deffo a problem with his graphics drivers, so that needs to be updated as first
* [14:18] Morgaine Dinova: Tofu's remarks on SNOW-72 might well explain why Snowglobe crashes with font problems on Gentoo with a lot of font directories.
* [14:18] Youri Ashton: think this might be just video card driver issues, nothing more
* [14:19] Youri Ashton: i mean SNOW-83
* [14:19] Erinyse Planer shakes her head no
* [14:19] Rob Linden: yeah, it sounds like we need a more reliable repro
* [14:19] Youri Ashton: looks to me that there is nothing more then that
* [14:19] Pixel Gausman: i think SNOW-83 is video driver, or we need more repro info
* [14:19] Thickbrick Sleaford: not sure what the log there means, but is shouldn't be using fmod, right?
* [14:19] Youri Ashton: ill add a message asking if a more detailled message can be placed and if tammy can update her drivers
* [14:20] Rob Linden: just did
* [14:21] Rob Linden: Thickbrick, that's a good point...maybe you can tack on a comment?
* [14:21] Erinyse Planer: hmm what im wondering is if its a video fdriver issue why is it triggered by audio?
* [14:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: also ask fo rthe audio system line: Audio Driver Version: OpenAL, version 1.1 / OpenAL Community / OpenAL Soft: ALSA Software on default
* [14:21] Youri Ashton: ah lol, okay
* [14:21] Youri Ashton: no point in added a second message then :)
* [14:21] Rob Linden: next up: SNOW-73
* [14:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-73
* [#SNOW-73] Sky blips when looking up
* [14:22] Morgaine Dinova: From a wider perspective, a GPU "not being up to the task" really needs to disappear as a reason in these days of smartphones ... it should be possible to reduce the interest list and rendering down to nothing, so that any machine with GL can cope. It's the future.
* [14:22] Youri Ashton: SNOW-73 is deffo graphical
* [14:23] Youri Ashton: i had the same untill i asked ATI to take a look at it
* [14:23] Youri Ashton: update the drivers i say
* [14:23] Erinyse Planer: hmm i dont know the jira number but ive seen this reported as a 1.23 and a 1.22 issue as well.
* [14:23] Rob Linden: yeah, this looks familiar
* [14:23] Rob Linden: also, one thing we should be asking in general is "is this a problem in 1.23?"
* [14:24] Youri Ashton: added mssg
* [14:24] Rob Linden: many of these issues don't seem to be Snowglobe specfic
* [14:24] Youri Ashton: indeed
* [14:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: they is's also present in 1.23
* [14:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: *they say
* [14:24] Youri Ashton: trick, its a pc issue then, more specific, graphical
* [14:24] Erinyse Planer: if theres a place i can get a lsit of them rob, i can go through later and try and link ones to coorespinding 1.23 ones if you wish
* [14:24] Morgaine Dinova: Netbooks are clear candidates for SL viewers. We just need to make the interest list OGP-selectable by Caps, and let the graphics quality slider control rendering to far lower qualities.
* [14:25] Youri Ashton: as i said, i had the same problem and it was solved already by ALL driver parties!
* [14:25] Youri Ashton: the users having this just need to update the drivers, and they are done
* [14:25] Youri Ashton: as Rob said, it is not specific for Snowglobe
* [14:25] Rob Linden: regardless, we wouldn't stop Snowglobe 1.1 for this, right?
* [14:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: Rob, what was the policy on bugs that are both in SG and Release? move to VWR?
* [14:26] Erinyse Planer hopes not. but does think its worht lookign into
* [14:26] Ellla McMahon: the Xpress card is not supported in System Requirements
* [14:26] Youri Ashton: Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
* [14:26] Pixel Gausman: Rob: any issue that also happens in a shipping mainline viewer wouldn't hold up a snowglobe release, would it?
* [14:26] Youri Ashton: dont think its something else then the same bug
* [14:27] Youri Ashton: OpenGL driver needs to be updated
* [14:27] Youri Ashton: only way to do so is update graphical drivers in general
* [14:27] Rob Linden: Pixel, probably not
* [14:27] Morgaine Dinova: Thickbrick -- https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2009-July/014725.html
* [14:28] Youri Ashton: i think its wise to let that be tried first before we all try to jump hoops to get a bug fixed that may already be fixed
* [14:28] Rob Linden: next up: SNOW-102
* [14:28] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-102
* [#SNOW-102] Animated textures stop at short distance while still very visible.
* [14:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: This is actually an issue in the main viewer too.
* [14:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: I've been struggling with it just before I came here too, because it keeps putting my animated textures out of sync.
* [14:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'd*
* [14:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: about SNOW-73 "1. When there's a bug with no patch associated with it, it should only
* live in one place (VWR or SNOW)"
* [14:30] Youri Ashton: I personally do not get what the problem is on SNOW-102
* [14:30] Youri Ashton: anyone else perhaps?
* [14:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: Youri, you mean you don't think it's a problem, or not understand waht the problem?
* [14:31] RePuDiaToR Quan: Helloo!!
* [14:31] RePuDiaToR Quan: all!
* [14:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm not entirely sure, but it may be a miscalculated "resource saver" in the viewer code, making it think it doesn't need to animate it?
* [14:31] RePuDiaToR Quan: ok Rob, i hope you can help me
* [14:32] Sebastean Steamweaver: I actually have an example of the object I'm working with, but I'm not entirely sure how to reproduce the bug itself.
* [14:32] Youri Ashton: could be the thing indeed seb, but I think its a good thing to ask if this reporter could place it more specific
* [14:32] Morgaine Dinova: The problem seems to be described clearly enough. The culling happens too early. Optimization like that aren't meant to be visible.
* [14:32] RePuDiaToR Quan: who can give me information if lindens lab is working on the sim ERIK
* [14:32] Rob Linden: we're working through this list: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10100&fixfor=-1
* [14:33] RePuDiaToR Quan: its down allready for 4 or 5 hours
* [14:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: they are and were visible before in release viewers
* [14:33] Erinyse Planer: repudiator that would probably be best asked via support ticket or in live support chat
* [14:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think the question is if it is substantially different in SG
* [14:33] Youri Ashton: sorry robocop, we are working ona bugtriage, im sure all the Linden's here are not thinking about any sim other then this one at this time
* [14:33] RePuDiaToR Quan: ahjaa, live support
* [14:33] RePuDiaToR Quan: that is what i forget
* [14:33] RePuDiaToR Quan: :P
* [14:33] RePuDiaToR Quan: good idea
* [14:33] Sebastean Steamweaver: The object uses layered textures that are animated, but it's happened multiple times that one random layer will stop and get out of sync with the others.
* [14:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: I haven't managed to find a way to "correct" it yet, without having to rerez it.
* [14:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: If it helps, one time it got out of sync, I had flown a little distance away.
* [14:34] Thickbrick Sleaford: is the one that stops on a substantially smaller prim/face?
* [14:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: Nope, all of them are identical except in alpha.
* [14:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: The one that stops is random, it isn't the same one every time.
* [14:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: The prim rotations, texture rotations, and animation scripts are all identical.
* [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: One for Nyx & co?
* [14:36] Erinyse Planer: sebastian can you add those comments. thats all useful information
* [14:36] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sure, I'd be glad to.
* [14:36] Rob Linden: agreed. this one seems like we should probably understand it better before we make a call on whether it needs fixxing for 1.1
* [14:36] Sebastean Steamweaver: As I said though, I'm not entirely sure on how to reproduce it, I just know the circumstances under which it's happening.
* [14:37] Youri Ashton: agreed rob
* [14:37] Youri Ashton: i was already on SNOW-80 which is next
* [14:37] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-80
* [#SNOW-80] Active Speakers list, voice 'dot' and level indicator failing
* [14:37] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'll add the comments after the office hours.
* [14:37] Rob Linden: yeah, I think I may have taken one out of order
* [14:37] Rob Linden: SNOW-80
* [14:38] Youri Ashton: sounds vermilliar, i seen this happen on several viewers, all 1.23 or newer, also on snowglobe
* [14:38] Rob Linden: given Youri's claim this is also a 1.23 issue, should we just move this one to VWR?
* [14:38] Erinyse Planer: probably
* [14:38] Rob Linden: it's almost certainly not specific to Snowglobe
* [14:38] Youri Ashton: lately its pretty much back to normal, so could just aswell be the voice servers
* [14:39] Youri Ashton: im sure it is not Rob
* [14:39] Youri Ashton: any 1.23 has the same issues for some people
* [14:40] Youri Ashton: to be honest, i do not know if this shows on older versions
* [14:40] Erinyse Planer: ild actually probably mark it as dupe and close it. it seems identical to some of the others already listed
* [14:40] Erinyse Planer: under vwr
* [14:40] RePuDiaToR Quan: D@MN!T
* [14:40] PrincessLadyUK Miami: What hunny?
* [14:40] RePuDiaToR Quan: i guess its busy at second life site
* [14:40] RePuDiaToR Quan: i can't find hte live chat anymore
* [14:40] PrincessLadyUK Miami: Aww.
* [14:41] PrincessLadyUK Miami: Could be busy hun.
* [14:41] Erinyse Planer: rep allot of regions went down and never came back up durring the restart. your best bet is to file a ticket
* [14:41] Erinyse Planer: i jsut checked and got the no operators availible message on support
* [14:41] Rob Linden: I moved SNOW-80 over to VWR for now
* [14:42] Rob Linden: let's move on: SNOW-109
* [14:42] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-109
* [#SNOW-109] Crashing when i open winamp
* [14:42] Youri Ashton: okay
* [14:42] Youri Ashton: I just added a messages to that one
* [14:42] Youri Ashton: It seems that when ever you are in full screen and hav eto go back to windows, you will crash either during that or going back to SL
* [14:43] Youri Ashton: this is however on ALL viewers
* [14:43] Rob Linden: ok, this one is clearly a 1.23 issue
* [14:43] Youri Ashton: it is NOT a viewer problem but a windows problem
* [14:43] Erinyse Planer: disagree.
* [14:43] Erinyse Planer: it doenst happen with 1.22
* [14:43] Erinyse Planer: its only 1.23 and above.
* [14:44] Youri Ashton: if anyone has linux or another OS, perhapsa test to repro?
* [14:44] Morgaine Dinova: None of my crashes happen with 1.22.11 either, so perhaps even under Windows there's a font problem.
* [14:44] Thickbrick Sleaford: but anyway, it's not snowglobe specific
* [14:44] Youri Ashton: i think its interresting to see if any other OS has the same issue
* [14:44] Morgaine Dinova: The big change in font handling from 1.22.11 onwards is probably the culprit
* [14:44] Erinyse Planer: -some- xp builds do
* [14:45] Rob Linden: k...moved
* [14:45] Rob Linden: next up
* [14:45] Rob Linden: SNOW-92
* [14:45] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-92
* [#SNOW-92] Compile error: llcommon/llstring.h:137: error: 'EOF' was not declared in this scope
* [14:45] Youri Ashton: could be morg, but I had it on ALL viewers myself
* [14:45] Rob Linden: we discussed this one this morning...
* [14:45] Youri Ashton: going from 1.14
* [14:45] Rob Linden: anyone with commit privs shoudl feel free to commit this one
* [14:46] Youri Ashton: I added a message already
* [14:46] Youri Ashton: Do you have Snowglobe in full screen mode? if so, then yes you most likely crash leading to a reboot. If not, please do tell! Tell us what exectly to do to reproduce this!
* [14:46] Youri Ashton: that mssg
* [14:47] Aimee Trescothick looks around for committers
* [14:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
* [14:47] Morgaine Dinova: lol
* [14:47] Rob Linden: whoops, forgot to steer people to SNOW-113
* [14:47] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-113
* [#SNOW-113] Links like "secondlife://" don't work correctly for Snowglobe
* [14:47] Erinyse Planer: how do you get commit privledges?
* [14:47] Rob Linden: looks like a duplicate of SNOW-60 to me
* [14:47] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-60
* [#SNOW-60] Clicking on a secondlife: URL leads to "Snowglobe is already running" on Mac
* [14:48] Youri Ashton: think i know whats going on
* [14:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: he says the error message is different
* [14:48] Aimee Trescothick: if you need to be committed we just call the men in white coats ...
* [14:48] Erinyse Planer giggles at aimee and hugs her
* [14:48] Erinyse Planer: thanks needed that aimee
* [14:48] Rob Linden: I'm going to bet that the reason for the error message being different is that he's running with --multiple
* [14:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh
* [14:48] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [14:49] Youri Ashton: when ever SL is not running, the SLURL can not go on untill you open SL. When in SL and trying these you may have a borked SLURL or a SLURL that tries to open SL first.
* [14:49] Rob Linden: Erinyse: the less smartypants answer to that you submit a handful of good patches, and then maybe ask for commit privs
* [14:49] Youri Ashton: think so indeed Rob
* [14:49] Erinyse Planer: thansk rob :)
* [14:50] Morgaine Dinova: What's the expected semantic on secondlife:// clicking when there is more than one client running?
* [14:50] Youri Ashton: i however run with -multiple and have no problem
* [14:50] Erinyse Planer: ans as for me if i clcik an slurl if i dont have sl open it opens it
* [14:50] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think the second instance of sl gets treated is a second-class session
* [14:50] Erinyse Planer: ive never had an issue
* [14:51] Youri Ashton: Raul Crimson added a message that it was simular to SNOW-60
* [14:51] Youri Ashton: i can see why as well
* [14:51] Youri Ashton: looks indeed simular
* [14:51] Erinyse Planer: though if im running multple versons sometimes i have to minimize one version to make sure the slurl triggers the right one
* [14:52] Rob Linden: I spent a fair amonut of time trying to figure out SNOW-60
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: hmm, this was the LaunchServices thing wasn't it that we discussed on IRC
* [14:52] Youri Ashton: I have a feeling its the same
* [14:52] Rob Linden: Aimee, yup
* [14:52] Youri Ashton: smae idea, same kind of descriptions...
* [14:53] Merov Linden never been able to repro SNOW-60 on my Mac though saw one where it does all the time
* [14:53] Rob Linden: Merov: what happens for you?
* [14:53] Erinyse Planer: merov... is there anything obviously differant between the two macs?
* [14:53] Merov Linden: on my machine: I never ever gets into that case
* [14:53] Rob Linden: it just uses Snowglobe if it's already running?
* [14:53] Aimee Trescothick: LaunchServices basically pics the app that's registered itself as a handler which happens to have the highest version number
* [14:53] Merov Linden: yeap
* [14:54] Aimee Trescothick: without worrying that it's comparing version of different applications :S
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: Merov: treid it as well with -multiple? as rob said earlier?
* [14:54] Merov Linden: nope, not with --multiple, that's true
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: please do try! think it might be a break :p
* [14:54] Pixel Gausman: Aimee: doesnt it pick the *last* installed, not the latest?
* [14:55] Morgaine Dinova: Perhaps this needs to be user-configurable. We're often running a viewer on SL and another on Opensim for starters. It shouldn't be random, nor one only.
* [14:55] Aimee Trescothick: Snowglobe has lower version number than release, so when you click a link it tries to open the release client to handle it rather than sending it to the already running Snowglobe
* [14:56] Rob Linden: at any rate, we'd have to fix 1.23 in order to fix this problem
* [14:56] Aimee Trescothick: except .... if you don't have --multiple specified the release client sees Snowglobe and refuses with the error
* [14:56] Thickbrick Sleaford: another thing about -multiple: is there a sifference between running one instance without it and one with it from running both with -multiple?
* [14:56] Rob Linden: ...since 1.23 is getting launched, and not detecting Snowglobe
* [14:56] Erinyse Planer: but this only occurs on some macs and not others? *is glad she has no mac*
* [14:56] Aimee Trescothick: absolute piece of genius in LaunchServices :)
* [14:56] Youri Ashton: agreed Rob
* [14:57] Merov Linden will need to run SNOW-60 tests again
* [14:57] Aimee Trescothick: Pixel: it's purely highest version number
* [14:57] Morgaine Dinova: How about binding an intermediary to the launcher, and letting that choose what to launch?
* [14:57] Youri Ashton: perhaps double check all SNOW-60 tests, it might show something then
* [14:57] Rob Linden: Morgaine: possibly
* [14:58] Youri Ashton: just to be sure ofcourse
* [14:58] Rob Linden: anyway, if someone wants to take a crack at this one, go nuts. we're rpobably not going to get to it for 1.1
* [14:58] Aimee Trescothick: Apple's suggestion is that your application should have a preference to choose the default handler
* [14:58] Youri Ashton: or get the one reporting it in and tell you what the problem is and how to repro
* [14:59] Youri Ashton: i know its generally not done that way, but if it has to be like that to get it fixed, then it might be needed
* [14:59] Rob Linden: anyway, we're running out of time here
* [14:59] Erinyse Planer: rob may i im you quickly?
* [15:00] Pixel Gausman scurries off to dinner
* [15:00] Youri Ashton: ill go trough the list and perhaps i can find some answers as well
* [15:00] Rob Linden: Erinyse: sure, but lets wrap up here first
* [15:00] Rob Linden: I may hang out here and keep going on the list, but this is a good time for people who are timing out to say "bye"
* [15:01] Youri Ashton: ah okay, ill give you a hand then Rob
* [15:01] Rob Linden: thanks everyone for coming, and feel free to stick around
* [15:01] Erinyse Planer can stick around if needed/wanted. or if yall need a pig of the guinea variety to poke at
* [15:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thanks for the meeting :)
* [15:01] Youri Ashton: Im looking into SNOW-66
* [15:01] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-66
* [#SNOW-66] voiceclient spams console, voice off, on opensim with: region doesn't have ParcelVoiceInfoRequest capability
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: UXIG meeting now, so will pop off shortly.
* [15:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm looking for someone to commit SNOW-97...
* [15:02] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-97
* [#SNOW-97] Building hotkeys to select/include next/previous prim in a link set
* [15:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: it got the go-ahead from Rob
* [15:03] Aimee Trescothick: I'll be reviewing and hopefully commiting SNOW-66 shortly
* [15:03] Thickbrick Sleaford looks in the direction of Aimee and Merov
* [15:03] Youri Ashton: just select the prim you want to be 'master' as last
* [15:03] Aimee Trescothick: I'm working in that part of the code at the moment anyway for Opensim related stuff
* [15:03] Youri Ashton: solves the problem
* [15:04] Morgaine Dinova: Aimee: grid selection? :-)
* [15:04] Darv Linden waves and poofs
* [15:04] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Darv
* [15:04] Aimee Trescothick: heh, not right now
* [15:05] Aimee Trescothick: I'm trying to get opensim/freeswitch/Siren14 and VoIPforVW all to coexist happily at the moment :S
* [15:05] Thickbrick Sleaford: what are those?
* [15:05] Erinyse Planer: that sounds like.... a really involved project aimee
* [15:06] Aimee Trescothick adds SNOW-97 to her list of 'stuff'
* [15:06] Morgaine Dinova: Wow
* [15:06] Youri Ashton: SNOW-64 is that even just Snowglobe? seems to me its also for 1.23
* [15:06] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-64
* [#SNOW-64] Fix the map UI so that it works in localized versions
* [15:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: Thanks Aimee!
* [15:06] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [15:07] Rob Linden catches up on the conversation....
* [15:08] Aimee Trescothick: well, most that stuff has been done by other people already, just a couple bits missing to make it all live happily together, and I need it for work like yesterday :S
* [15:10] Erinyse Planer: well good luck aimee *smiles and offers a hug if she needs the support* if you get it to the point you need testers let me know
* [15:10] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [15:10] Rob Linden: so, SNOW-66 and SNOW-97 should probably be marked 1.1, right?
* [15:10] Erinyse Planer: *nods*
* [15:10] Youri Ashton: yeah
* [15:11] Youri Ashton: both the same
* [15:11] Youri Ashton: I just was working on SNOW-90
* [15:11] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-90
* [#SNOW-90] Mini-map renders incorrectly sometimes
* [15:11] Youri Ashton: i added a new comment to it as well
* [15:11] Aimee Trescothick: yep, I've just assigned 66 and 97 to me
* [15:11] Youri Ashton: the strange thing is, that it looks like a graphical bug, but it can not be one
* [15:11] Aimee Trescothick: oo minimap issue
* [15:11] Aimee Trescothick: hmm
* [15:12] Youri Ashton: since it does not do the same with all sims around
* [15:12] Youri Ashton: just a few
* [15:12] Erinyse Planer: looks like a packet loss thing to me possibly
* [15:12] Youri Ashton: it happens to me when im in the Linden Village
* [15:12] Youri Ashton: i did not see it anywhere else
* [15:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: I see SNOW-90 sometimes
* [15:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: I need to head out folks :) take care
* [15:12] Erinyse Planer: same spot always?
* [15:13] Youri Ashton: bye buye seb!
* [15:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: I was thinking it's related to the corrupted map tiles
* [15:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: Erinyse, I added that info to 102
* [15:13] Aimee Trescothick: interesting, not seen that happen
* [15:13] Erinyse Planer: ty seb
* [15:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: Take care!
* [15:13] Youri Ashton: could be thich
* [15:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: the minimap uses tiles from the main map as background?
* [15:13] Youri Ashton: good point btw
* [15:13] Aimee Trescothick: no
* [15:13] Rob Linden: this is all referring to SNOW-90?
* [15:13] Youri Ashton: yeah
* [15:13] Youri Ashton: minimap
* [15:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes
* [15:14] Aimee Trescothick: it renders the land live with what it sees in world
* [15:14] Youri Ashton: this does NOT relate to the regualar map
* [15:14] Erinyse Planer: thick does it happen at the same spot usually?
* [15:14] Youri Ashton: somehow the regular map does not show the same thing
* [15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: ok, so seperate, but still looks like corrupted mem to me
* [15:14] Youri Ashton: different tiles?
* [15:14] Aimee Trescothick: does the ground texture look normal when this is happening?
* [15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: Runsye: not sure
* [15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: *Erinyse
* [15:15] Youri Ashton: nothing is changed, only the few minimap tiles that change to that
* [15:15] Youri Ashton: sometimes only partially changed
* [15:15] Erinyse Planer: if we could find a spot where it cosnistantly happens and get some console readings on texture loads and packet loss I think that could give some real clues
* [15:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: I usually get color stipes that look like a CGA display
* [15:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: *stripes
* [15:16] Youri Ashton: i refuse to believe that could be a graphical problem, since the same would be happening witht he map and for that matter all tiles and all the time
* [15:16] Erinyse Planer: not neccisarily
* [15:16] Aimee Trescothick: the map tiles are completely separate to the minimap
* [15:16] Youri Ashton: true, still
* [15:17] Erinyse Planer: if i recall correctly the minimap loads through a differant pipeline i think
* [15:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: where does the minimap gets it's background tiles from?
* [15:17] Aimee Trescothick: the minimap is completely rendered by the client from what it knows about the terrain
* [15:17] Youri Ashton: ill create a picture when it happens again, i usually have multiple sim tiles being infected
* [15:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh
* [15:17] Aimee Trescothick: it's not a downloaded texture
* [15:18] Aimee Trescothick: so if you edit terrain you'll see it alter live on the minimap
* [15:18] Erinyse Planer: its also relaint on server data too. so im thinking if a texture downloaded got corrupted in the cahce that minimap draws from
* [15:18] Erinyse Planer: it would explain the corruption in the minimap
* [15:18] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, the terrain gets rendered in strips
* [15:19] Merov Linden: sorry, was looking at a cygwin problem
* [15:19] Aimee Trescothick: so the alternating stripes may suggest something going wrong there somewhere
* [15:19] Erinyse Planer: aimee youre follwoign what im saying right?
* [15:19] Youri Ashton: if thats true, then it should be updated automaticly, that it does not
* [15:19] Aimee Trescothick: yup
* [15:19] Merov Linden: what Aimee said is true about the minimap
* [15:19] Rob Linden: that's an interesting theory Erinyse
* [15:20] Merov Linden: I've seen cases in the minimap where the rendered terrain is patterned in ugly ways
* [15:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: so another angle then: do people see it with GPUs other than Nvidia 7xxx?
* [15:20] Erinyse Planer: I ahve a 9600
* [15:20] Aimee Trescothick: if someone can get a solid repro there I'd be really interested
* [15:20] Erinyse Planer: it happens very RARELY
* [15:20] Thickbrick Sleaford: for me it comes and goes around my home sim (Brolga)
* [15:21] Twisted Laws: i've seen it on a 8600M GS
* [15:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: ok, bad theory...
* [15:21] Erinyse Planer: and usually if i cleare the cache and restart it goes away
* [15:21] Aimee Trescothick: hmm, I'm on an ATi mac, so may explain why I've never seen it
* [15:22] Aimee Trescothick: be interested to know if resizing the minimap big and small clears it in snowglobe
* [15:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, I was confusing the GPU coincidence from this and the main map corruption (SNOW-112)
* [15:22] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-112
* [#SNOW-112] http map textures are corrupted
* [15:22] A group member named Jeska Linden owned by an unknown group gave you "Official" LL Shrek Ears.
* [15:22] Aimee Trescothick: as that should force it to reinit the texture
* [15:22] Erinyse Planer: hence why im thinking texture corruption caused by packet lsos either through the network or IN system may be the culprit
* [15:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'll try next time I see it
* [15:22] Youri Ashton: was pretty fast fixed to my knowlage
* [15:23] Rob Linden: interesting, ok, so maybe we should make SNOW-90 something we at least try to get more info on before we close out Snowglobe 1.1
* [15:23] Twisted Laws: everytime i've seen it, it has been at a corner of my draw distance, never the sim i'm in
* [15:23] Erinyse Planer: sounds good rob. *nods*
* [15:24] Youri Ashton: it sure needs to get fixed indeed
* [15:24] Youri Ashton: very unhany if you can not use your mini map
* [15:25] Erinyse Planer: youri next time this happens can you try clearing cache and relogging?
* [15:26] Twisted Laws: when i've seen it, relogging fixed it (not clearing cache)
* [15:27] Rob Linden: funny, just read SNOW-64 and thought "if this is a problem, wouldn't Merov have seen it?"....then I looked at the reporter
* [15:27] Aimee Trescothick: LOL
* [15:27] Youri Ashton: lol
* [15:28] Rob Linden: any XUI gurus around here?
* [15:29] Thickbrick Sleaford looks around
* [15:29] Rob Linden: I'm going to add it to the list of things we try to fix for 1.1....seems like we should be able to get something in
* [15:29] Rob Linden: SNOW-65
* [15:29] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-65
* [#SNOW-65] OGG sound stutters (on Linux)
* [15:29] Erinyse Planer: cant comment. i dont run linux. I hate it. *hides cuase she knows she speaks blasphemy*
* [15:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: would help to list an ogg stream there
* [15:30] Youri Ashton: why would anyone listen to a OGG stream in the first place??? o_0
* [15:30] Winne Woodget: hahaha
* [15:31] Rob Linden: I'm goign to mark it as post 1.1
* [15:31] Rob Linden: ...and I suspect it's also a 1.23 problem
* [15:31] Youri Ashton: could be
* [15:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: OGG rates 20% higher on double-blind free-softwareness test
* [15:32] Rob Linden: SNOW-87
* [15:32] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-87
* [#SNOW-87] Reference-Mode Editing Problem
* [15:32] Rob Linden: I'd be pretty surprised if this is Snowglobe specific
* [15:32] Youri Ashton: still... whats wrong with the MP3 streams that EVERYONE uses, why should this person use OGG instead?? doesnt make sense :p
* [15:32] Aimee Trescothick is beginning to think 5 screens on her desk is not enough
* [15:33] Erinyse Planer: o.O
* [15:33] Erinyse Planer: 5?
* [15:33] Winne Woodget: 5? OMG
* [15:34] Erinyse Planer had enough trouble when she had 3 to look at
* [15:35] Winne Woodget can only use 2 eyes for each screen
* [15:35] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm not even sure how to repro SNOW-87
* [15:35] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, chat line needs to be closed for Shift-G
* [15:35] Youri Ashton: aight, time for me to stop. got a lot more to do unfortunately
* [15:36] Rob Linden: thanks Youri
* [15:36] Rob Linden: SNOW-88
* [15:36] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-88
* [#SNOW-88] Teleport bug & wearing thing logs out; is excessive
* [15:36] Youri Ashton: thanks for the meeting Rob, ill look into the others later
* [15:36] Youri Ashton: laters all
* [15:36] Rob Linden: I'm not sure I can parse SNOW-88
* [15:37] Erinyse Planer: errrm im nto even sure i understand what they are trying to say
* [15:38] Erinyse Planer: at the risk of sounding very insensative, suggest nmi and ask for a better translation ?
* [15:38] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think she's talking about attachments getting detached when she's redmapped
* [15:38] Winne Woodget: attachments are lost on teleport failure maybe?
* [15:38] Twisted Laws: i've noticed that sometimes you teleport and crash or log out before all objects are rendered (huds) and when you log on again you have to re-wear them
* [15:38] Twisted Laws: but thats old
* [15:39] Rob Linden: ok...marked as needs more info
* [15:41] Erinyse Planer: I sometimes wish LL would encourage people to report bugs in their native language a bit more. it makes it frustrating for the reporter and those trying to help alike when theres a confustion over the translation
* [15:41] Thickbrick Sleaford: found an ogg stream: http://www.cbc.ca/livemedia/cbcr1-toronto.m3u
* [15:42] Aimee Trescothick contemplates a Google Wave/JIRA mashup with live translation
* [15:43] Rob Linden: SNOW-96
* [15:43] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-96
* [#SNOW-96] Snapshot preview does not match viewport view or texture loaded
* [15:43] Erinyse Planer smiles at aimee. "if you pulled that off you could sell it and be rich"
* [15:43] Aimee Trescothick: :D
* [15:43] Rob Linden: I'm going to guess SNOW-96 is fixed in the latest Snowglobe build, since we merged in the last of the 1.23 changes
* [15:43] Rob Linden: (where "we" is Merov) :)
* [15:43] Rob Linden: all hail "we"!
* [15:43] Erinyse Planer: lol
* [15:44] Erinyse Planer: wait does that mean the latest one will ahve ims visibile in local chat window if we want ?
* [15:44] Latif Khalifa: what's the merge strategy with other viewer branches, will you wait until 1.24 is out before merging stuff, or some things from trunk or?
* [15:45] Rob Linden: Latif: case-by-case basis
* [15:45] Rob Linden: Erinyse: I don't know...is that something that was introduced late in the 1.23 cycle?
* [15:45] Erinyse Planer: in the "final" 1.23
* [15:46] Erinyse Planer: the "official" viewer
* [15:47] Erinyse Planer: its one of only three things i dont like in snowglobe so far. overall though, i love snowglobe. its amazingly better on my system
* [15:48] Aimee Trescothick has IM's in the Local Chat history in latest snowglobe build
* [15:49] Rob Linden: Erinyse: try out the very latest Snowglobe from here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
* [15:50] Twisted Laws: (in beta meeting on aditi... when opening map, it shows agni map tiles instead of aditi map tiles)
* [15:50] Erinyse Planer: that newer then the one on the sl download page?
* [15:50] Twisted Laws: snowglobe does that
* [15:50] Thickbrick Sleaford: Twisted, there's a couple of SNOW jiras for that
* [15:50] Rob Linden: Erinyse: nope....it's a nightly build of what will become Snowglobe 1.1
* [15:50] Erinyse Planer: oh wow.
* [15:51] Rob Linden: well, not "nightly", but we rebuild pretty frequently
* [15:51] Erinyse Planer: is there like a bsi program equivlenat for snowglobe then?
* [15:51] Rob Linden: not really formal in the same way
* [15:52] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think this is it, pretty much
* [15:52] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: yup
* [15:52] Rob Linden: as the old Palmolive commercial goes: "you're soaking in it"
* [15:52] Erinyse Planer would like to be involved... assuming im allowed.
* [15:53] Rob Linden: sure
* [15:54] Rob Linden: anyway, moving on
* [15:54] Rob Linden: SNOW-81
* [15:54] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-81
* [#SNOW-81] VersionChannelName is left alone, and therefore rather arbitrary (whatever it was)
* [15:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm going to test this ogg stream...
* [15:56] Twisted Laws: that only happens if you compile your own tho and don't change it in llversionviewer.h ... (or thats what i thought i saw)
* [15:58] Erinyse Planer: errm okay logging off so i can install the update. bbiab (I hope...)
* [15:59] Rob Linden: (sorry, distracted by a couple of other things)
* [16:00] Rob Linden: yeah, SNOW-81 can be fixed by running a python script that we recently published
* [16:00] Rob Linden looks up the name of it
* [16:01] Rob Linden: update_version_files.py
* [16:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: Twisted, the map on the beta grid thing is SNOW-77
* [16:02] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-77
* [#SNOW-77] S3 map shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
* [16:03] Latif Khalifa: map seem to be hardcoded to agni no matter to what grid you login
* [16:03] Thickbrick Sleaford: I wonder what happens on non LL grids
* [16:03] Latif Khalifa: yup
* [16:04] Latif Khalifa: if you login with snowglobe in opensim you still get agni map ;)
* [16:04] Thickbrick Sleaford: hmm
* [16:05] Thickbrick Sleaford: what do the non-SG viewers show?
* [16:05] Latif Khalifa: the old map api actually reqests map tiles from the sim, so that is overridable by grid you connect to
* [16:05] Thickbrick Sleaford is ashamed to admit he hasn't logged into an opensim grid in a very long time
* [16:05] Latif Khalifa: snowglobe bypases that and goes direct to amazon s3
* [16:06] Erinyse Planer jumps back in and immdeatel goes to fixing her preferences back
* [16:07] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm adding that as a comment to snow-77
* [16:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you people, I'm off
* [16:11] Erinyse Planer: tc thick
* [16:11] Rob Linden: see ya
* [16:12] Rob Linden: given the dwindling numbers here, I think we'll end it here.
* [16:13] Rob Linden: thanks everyone for helping out!
* [16:13] Twisted Laws: yw, cya rob