Doc Team/2009-04-15

== Transcript ==
*[13:03 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: lol
*[13:03 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Last week Torley apologised for being 2 mins late
*[13:03 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: Hi everyone!
*[13:03 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: One's arriven
*[13:03 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hullo everyone!
*[13:03 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: hi
*[13:03 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hey Jeremy :)
*[13:03 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Tourmaline Falken has pinged you.
*[13:03 SLT] Youri Ashton: the ball gets trown to you and you with it witha wooden stick away, whats the fun about that? :p
*[13:03 SLT] Jeremy Linden: You get to hit something with a wooden stick!
*[13:04 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:04 SLT] Dakota Schwade: Well, you catch the ball and throw it to Who? That's right, to Who...
*[13:04 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey jeremy
*[13:04 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:04 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: traslator
*[13:04 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Who's the guy on First?
*[13:04 SLT] Jeremy Linden: How is everyone this week?
*[13:04 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: ... no effect?
*[13:04 SLT] Dakota Schwade: No, What's on 1st. Who's on 2nd.
*[13:04 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: hello
*[13:04 SLT] Youri Ashton: fine! great weather here!
*[13:04 SLT] Becky Pippen: Wonderful! How about you Jeremy?
*[13:04 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Becky Pippen has pinged you.
*[13:04 SLT] pinkytje Docherty: Hi Mello
*[13:04 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Good thanks - u?
*[13:04 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Watt's the name of the guy on second
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third.
*[13:05 SLT] Dakota Schwade: No, What's the name of the guy on 1st...
*[13:05 SLT] Youri Ashton: i been enjoying the sun all week now!
*[13:05 SLT] Mellodramatikos Writer: Hi Guys Hi pink
*[13:05 SLT] pinkytje Docherty: Hi ㋡
*[13:05 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: This is probably a rather technical issue, for technical writers
*[13:05 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: No classes before tomrrow's exams, so I could finally get a chance to check out the doc team OH.
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heheh. I'm doing fine, thanks! Jon says he can't make it today 'cause he's busy, and Torley just crashed, so he'll be here momentarily.
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh, nice.
*[13:05 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: OOOOOKEY DOOOOOKEY
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Good luck on exams!
*[13:05 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Where' Kate?
*[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Kate hasn't given me an excuse why she's not here yet :-P
*[13:06 SLT] Youri Ashton: she'll be here
*[13:06 SLT] Youri Ashton: jeremy is too attractive for her, so she'll be here ;)
*[13:06 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:06 SLT] Youri Ashton: haha
*[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: :-O
*[13:06 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: lol
*[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: It must be the eyes.
*[13:06 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: She should get in line ;)
*[13:06 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: UAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHA
*[13:07 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: UAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHA
*[13:07 SLT] Youri Ashton: just some fun needs to be there i guess :p
*[13:07 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Anyone read any good Knowledge Base articles lately? Or wish they had?
*[13:07 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: i didnt
*[13:08 SLT] Youri Ashton: i dont have the time usually to read it
*[13:08 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Yes I'd like more information on how to edit the dayfiles in Environment settings
*[13:08 SLT] Dakota Schwade: That method of linking to articles, it has not been improved has it?
*[13:08 SLT] Youri Ashton: i find things out as i go along
*[13:08 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I downloaded Torley's windlight settings and want to set them so I don't have to reset them every time I crash or relog
*[13:08 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: but I can't figure out how to do it - Torley says you can just save the files as new default
*[13:09 SLT] Youri Ashton: it is really easy
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: No, linking to articles is still painful. We've actually been talking about that a lot lately, so keep your eyes on the TNT blog for any announcements we make :-)
*[13:09 SLT] Dakota Schwade: OK, very good.
*[13:09 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I don't find any helpful infor on the kb - got any link for me?
*[13:09 SLT] Youri Ashton: when the lagg goes down a bit i will create more of my own settings and upload it to the knowlage base, everyone will know about it when its there :)
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh, hm. Did you read the existing WindLight articles, Tourma? I don't know that we've expanded on them since WindLight was introduced.
*[13:10 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: probably - they were certainly very basic
*[13:10 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: didnt tell me anything I didnt already know :/
*[13:10 SLT] Youri Ashton: you should try the youtube videos torley made, it also explains very easy how to do it yourself
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I've looked through GTorleys Vidtuts for something about it but again it is very basic stuff
*[13:11 SLT] Youri Ashton: but you know torley, he talks pretty quick, so step by step you best try to pause it
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: He only tells you how to download and install and use
*[13:11 SLT] Youri Ashton: the basics is all yo will need :)
*[13:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hrm. When you save a sky preset, it should theoretically create a .xml file in your Second Life folder on your hard drive. I know we have plans to make them tradable inworld, but it hasn't happened yet.
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: but not how to make the files default
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: k
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: hm
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: torley spoke about making it usable per sim aswell
*[13:12 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Strange that you lose your saved presets when you relog, though!
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Maybe he will make another vidtut for us on the subject
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: Friendly greetings!
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: like this week maybe haha
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: would be even better
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hi Torley
*[13:12 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heya Torley!
*[13:12 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: Hey Torley !!!!
*[13:12 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: hi torley
*[13:12 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: Hi Torley
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: friendly greetings torley!
*[13:12 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: welcome !!
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: good to see you again!
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: if i suddenly disappear, i'm relogging from another computer after it crashed. what'd i miss? :D
*[13:12 SLT] Juko Tempel: greetings
*[13:12 SLT] Asterion Coen: torley :)
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: nothing so far
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: So far me saying I need more info on setting your windligvht settings as default
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton: there he goes again
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: gah the lagg is bad - my typos!
*[13:13 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: hahahaha
*[13:13 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We're chatting about how to save WindLight settings... Tourma's been having some trouble getting them to stick.
*[13:13 SLT] Youri Ashton: he is gone again jeremy
*[13:13 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:13 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: He really doesnt want to know about my problems with his settings hahaha
*[13:13 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Doh!
*[13:13 SLT] Youri Ashton: ow, what is going on with SL? its laggy as hell
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: gah had to relog again, sorry about that!
*[13:13 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Yes it is really bad right now
*[13:13 SLT] Youri Ashton: wb torley!
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks i had a hard time starting up and logging in
*[13:13 SLT] Qie Niangao: huh. I never noticed how messed up linking to KB articles is... I was happily posting links like https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/KBAnswer.asp?questionID=4568 in the forums, and now realize they go to a dead redirect page for creating a Support Portal session. Is it understood what's going wrong there?
*[13:13 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: wb Torley
*[13:14 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I haven't the KB open, but does it distinguish between what SL thinks is Windlight, and what was released in the same version?
*[13:14 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Qie, we actually have an article about how to link to articles :-P
*[13:14 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, well i can see the colors of your wonderfull panda now!
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: YES QIE IT IS A SCOURAGE AND HORRIBLE BANE :( ... i may be getting overemotional there, but like Jeremy said...
*[13:14 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: there's a workaround... not the most elegant or obvious until after-the-fact
*[13:14 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5402
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: Arawn, i don't understand?
*[13:14 SLT] Qie Niangao clicks
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: someday we hope that KB links are simple and direct. so you save time and can share info with no hassle.
*[13:14 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Shall I start again about the windlight settings?
*[13:15 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: Sigh... couldn't the KB just be put into some kind of wiki?
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: please do Tourma, i'm so sorry i missed the first part!
*[13:15 SLT] Juko Tempel: it's really environment editor skies now, isn't it?
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: Geneko, what do you see as being the advantages of it on the wiki? earnest question.
*[13:15 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Avatar mposters were released togeather with Windlight, but I recall something about their not being windlight
*[13:15 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Plus, it'd be a valuable addition to the KB... I can't believe we don't have anything in there about saving settings.
*[13:15 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Well I need more help with making your windlight settings a default so I don't have to reset them every time I crash or relog. The Vidtuts and kb articles are very basic right now
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: FOR THE RECORD: "WindLight" is a codename, albeit a very popular one. and yes, Environmental Settings controls it.
*[13:15 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Maybe a new vidtut this week?? ;)
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, oh, the workaround to that is to replace the default day cycle presets with custom ones with the same name. aside from that, i don't know how to make them persist.
*[13:16 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Technically true, Arawn. "WindLight" refers to the sky rendering technology we aquired when we bought Winward Mark Interactive. Avatar Impostors was a project Runitai was working on independently.
*[13:16 SLT] Juko Tempel nods.. skies and water etc
*[13:16 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: Easy for Lindens to edit and for MediaWiki, easy to link. For example, "http://kb.secondlife.com/wiki/Advanced_Water_Settings"
*[13:16 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I recall saving settings for environment, but it doesn't remain in future sessions, and I doubt it varies for time of day.
*[13:16 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I've done that but I still have to reset them every time I relog
*[13:16 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok
*[13:16 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: so are we saying there isnt a way round it yet
*[13:16 SLT] Youri Ashton: hi kate!
*[13:17 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hi kate
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: the "Windlight Release" aka 1.9.1 INCLUDED a bunch of additional eye-candy like better shader water which wasn't part of the original skies/atmospheres. if that makes it any less confusing.
*[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi :)
*[13:17 SLT] Youri Ashton: told ya jeremy, she cant resist you ;)
*[13:17 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:17 SLT] Youri Ashton: haha
*[13:17 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: Communtity editability is a plus, but not necessary if LL is worried of it being edited at wellwill.
*[13:17 SLT] Asterion Coen: hi kate :)
*[13:17 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: hi kate
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: basically yes Tourma. conceivably someone with open source skillz could edit a viewer to make it persist since it's all on the viewer-side.
*[13:17 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: hey kate, welcome
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: Geneko, thanks, was definitely curious what you saw as being the advantages of the wiki.
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: yo Kate!
*[13:17 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: :(( ok
*[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: Still rezzing :)
*[13:17 SLT] Youri Ashton: yeah its slow, we all experience huge lagg
*[13:18 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: I happen to have free time before tomorrow's exams so I could check out the Doc team OH, usually I have class at this time.
*[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: hopefully I'm not sitting on anyone :)
*[13:18 SLT] Asterion Coen: youri i saw worst today
*[13:18 SLT] Youri Ashton: no your not :)
*[13:18 SLT] Asterion Coen: a whole part of my train station at calleta desapeared today
*[13:18 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: 476.8 kilotriangles per frame. Not much.
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: people still use "WindLight" to this day due to it being a catchy (and well-marketed ;) ) word, despite not being explicitly stated in the viewer.
*[13:18 SLT] Youri Ashton: trust me asterion, this lagg is nothing compaired to last years lag problems ;)
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: well it's our lucky day then, Geneko!
*[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: What's the topic so far?
*[13:19 SLT] Geneko Nemeth has to admit he maybe fto blame for the lag here.
*[13:19 SLT] Youri Ashton: windlight, lagg
*[13:19 SLT] Asterion Coen: youri you should go to calleta ;)
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: Kate, we were just talking about the KB linking workaround
*[13:19 SLT] Juko Tempel: environment settings and saving them
*[13:19 SLT] Kate Linden: oh nice
*[13:19 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Oh I also have another question about one of the SL login pictures - looks like it is taken at Areumdeuli, but I don't see the actual photo on your flickr, Torley
*[13:19 SLT] Asterion Coen: and you will understand that u didnt know what lag was :)
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah, it frustrates me after i crash, i have to re-establish the same WindLight/sky setting i had before.
*[13:19 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I want to get a copy for my SL house wall :)
*[13:19 SLT] Qie Niangao: thanks for that workaround... i just never noticed it was necessary because i always had a support portal session running when I tested the links I made. :o
*[13:19 SLT] Juko Tempel: took me a while too Qie
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, have a link? as in, http://secondlife.com/app/login/ , wait 'til it shows up, and right-click then COPY the image link?
*[13:20 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Yes, it drives us crazy, too, Qie.
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: CRAAAAAAAAAAZY
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: :O makes me a sad panda
*[13:20 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:20 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I didn't know pandas liked watermelons though
*[13:20 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: Oh right, there's also that Using MediaWiki would make browsing the KB easier becuase it shows 200 articles in a category at a time instead of only 10. ANd it seems faster.
*[13:20 SLT] Juko Tempel: no attribution that way though Torley?
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: we are actively pursuing ways of getting knowledge to our dear Second Life Resis easier!
*[13:21 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: It's a specific picture I want - which I was hoping to find in your Flickr pics to copy
*[13:21 SLT] Kate Linden: I've mentioned this before. When Doc Team did a Q&A session with the SL Mentors, one of the mentors pointed out using gestures for KB article links. I made a few and they work great.
*[13:21 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: but I don't see it there - it's one of the SL login pages = saaw it for the first time yesterday
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: Juko, would like to, but http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Login_screen
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: it's one of my FAQs this week!
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, yes, they rotate throughout the day. details on that page.
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: i assembled it in pieces because i was bombarded by questions!
*[13:21 SLT] Juko Tempel: i meant.. at least from your Flickr there is some, sometimes :-)
*[13:22 SLT] Youri Ashton: ow torley, did you look at the fortress i gave you? I sure hope you liked it!
*[13:22 SLT] Asterion Coen: (should i rezz a B-52?)
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri what's it named specifically?
*[13:22 SLT] Youri Ashton: let me see again
*[13:22 SLT] Jeremy Linden doesn't think a B-52 would fit on this pier.
*[13:22 SLT] Youri Ashton: Star Fortress-San_Juan_de_Ulua
*[13:22 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh! oh, that reminds me: there's going to be great interest in techniques for moving very large builds. Somebody (Q? Nyx?) mentioned that such may be the topic of an emerging VidTut or KB article or something (The timeliness driven by concerns over the move to Ursula)
*[13:23 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Perfect - that's the pic - thank you Torley :)
*[13:23 SLT] Asterion Coen: for sure, but it wont be more incoherant than those lag, or the question bombs :)
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: Qie, yes, i've heard that independently. i'd be in favor of doing it with a disclaimer because coalesced objects are NOT intuitive for the new builder.
*[13:23 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh. That'd be an interesting time to talk about coalesced objects. There are also some Resident-created tools that are designed to move large builds.
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: and risk content loss, etc. there are so many caveats and "CAUTIONS"
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: so i'd actually favor and point to the Rez-Foo, Rez-Faux, and other devices like that
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: which simplify moving large builds, provided they are modifiable
*[13:24 SLT] Juko Tempel gave you GoldenSunrise_004.
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: that is a great suggestion tho, Qie. very practical concern.
*[13:24 SLT] Qie Niangao: yes... there are definitely ways to hurt yourself with rezzing coalesced objects near parcel borders... so it would be good for folks to be aware of the risks
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: i actually had to do that video tutorial about not rezzing no-copy coalesced objects near parcel borders, Kate was letting me know of the pain people had unexpectedly experienced.
*[13:24 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: These tools would be certainly helpful, but why can't colasced object functionality be friendlier?
*[13:25 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Pain? In SL?!
*[13:25 SLT] Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4581
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: Geneko, there was a planned project awhile back but it wasn't done in favor of more pressing things at the time
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: there are times where a warning can't be put into the viewer fast enough, so Doc Team like to get on it and get the info to our Support Lindens and Residents so you have a heads-up!
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: it is agony being in a "OMG... I LOST MY HOUSE... WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME?!?!" situation. i've been there before. :(
*[13:26 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: yikes
*[13:26 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: OMG I LOST MY HOUSE!!!! oh wait it's in my pocket
*[13:26 SLT] Qie Niangao: hehehe... yeah, this KB article needs to be read from the end, backwards. :p
*[13:26 SLT] Youri Ashton: some people act before thinking, that gets things lost
*[13:26 SLT] Asterion Coen: Bio did u found a part of a train station too in your pocket ?
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah Youri, there's often a balance of making the info digestible enough so you have the most important points and don't have to think too much
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: overthinking leads to confusion
*[13:27 SLT] Kate Linden: That KB article has a caution message about rezzing no copy objects across no build parcel boundaries. Torley created a video tutorial on this topic as well, which is also in that article.
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: i think it was Colton (who sometimes shows up at our office hours) who earlier mentioned, "prevention is education"!
*[13:27 SLT] Youri Ashton: I dont mean to hurt someones feelings with this, but its unfortuantly the truth, its only human to make mistakes.
*[13:27 SLT] Qie Niangao: thanks, Kate. :)
*[13:27 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: nope everything but a train station
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: i like when mistakes can be forgiven... like an Undo button
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: :)
*[13:28 SLT] Asterion Coen: (you should add it to the client then, hehe)
*[13:28 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: But I don't like it when Undo only works half of the time.
*[13:28 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, i wish that could be done with some things torley!
*[13:28 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: photoshop style undos lol
*[13:28 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: <--- has just been watching the Undo vidtut lol
*[13:28 SLT] Jeremy Linden sometimes undoes "mistakes" on purpose while building.
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: hm you know what, we promote the KB from our blog @ http://tr.im/sltnt but there should be more promotion of our blog on the KB... reciprocal links!
*[13:28 SLT] Geneko Nemeth wonders why he's so skeptical recently.
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: my left hand gets lazy on the Ctrl key. sometimes i accidentally Ctrl-drag part of a build and go "@#$!"
*[13:28 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ugh. Done that a million times. Can't undo :-(
*[13:28 SLT] Juko Tempel: colourful language lol
*[13:29 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: How is it deeding objects can't be undone? After returning the object it is still no-mod
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: i make also mistakes in building jeremy, but im probably the fastest builder ther eis in all SL, so easily corrected :p
*[13:29 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:29 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. We should hold a Primtionary game here some week.
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: i got a big castle done in about 1 day
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, it takes next-owner permissions which may be more restrictive. why does it do that? because a group is sensibly the next owners.
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: including textures etc
*[13:29 SLT] Geneko Nemeth never builds..
*[13:29 SLT] Arawn Spitteler gota big castle done in one prim
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: oh gosh, it's been a long time since i played Primtionary. i miss that.
*[13:29 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Can we get around it?
*[13:29 SLT] Juko Tempel: sorry i can't stay.. thanks
*[13:30 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming!
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: 2late again jeremy :p
*[13:30 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, no. that would circumvent the permissions system. in some cases, the original creator may be able to make arrangements for less restrictive permissions.
*[13:30 SLT] Jeremy Linden is too slow today.
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, we noticed :p
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: or... people just are too fast today :p
*[13:30 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Is thee a spcific KB Article on windlight? I did a search, and just got a list of references. I recall someone not being able to look up, what I was talking about, and don't know what else to call it.
*[13:31 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Everyone is overclocked except me!
*[13:31 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: So my object - which I deeded and then returned to myself because I needed to edit it - can't be made modifiable again?
*[13:31 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:31 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Can't go home again. It might be a nice feature, if th creator had mod rights, when the owner
*[13:32 SLT] Kate Linden: Arawn, there are articles for the Environment Editor and Advanced settings, like Advanced Sky Editor, Advanced Water Settings...
*[13:32 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Notyhing by the name of Windlight?
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, if you originally made "Next owner can" = NO-MOD, then yes.
*[13:32 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Or, what is it Arawn means, when he refers to Windlaugh
*[13:32 SLT] Youri Ashton: just try wind
*[13:32 SLT] Youri Ashton: then it should get mroe results if any
*[13:33 SLT] Youri Ashton: more*
*[13:33 SLT] Jeremy Linden: When you deed an object, you're essentially giving it to a new owner (the group)... and that means the next-owner permissions get applied to it. Sadly, there is no way to make an object *more* permissive forever after the first time you give it to someone :-/
*[13:33 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok :( That's two out of three bad news sets so far this hour lol
*[13:33 SLT] Kate Linden: Arawn, what type of information are you looking for? We do have articles that mention windlight.
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: ^ yeah, that doesn't seem intuitive at first, but think of it this way -- an object can encounter modifications and changes in ownership before it makes it back to the original creator. we don't have a way to journal that "chain of creators" for others who may've contributed, and don't wish the original creator to have the absolute say in things.
*[13:35 SLT] Jeremy Linden intentionally removed most references to the term "WindLight" in the KB. WindLight itself was not intended to be a separate set of features. It's just "the sky and some special lighting effects in Second Life" now :-)
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: it'd kinda like this: hey! i make fun textures, i give them out for free! someone gets them, and applies those textures to a sofa they sell which is NO-MOD... it's be unfair to say i could usurp all their permissions.
*[13:35 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: but .. if I make it possible for the next owner to be able to modify, before deeding, then that may be a workaround?
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: yes Tourma, if you want next/future owner to be able to modify, be sure to enable that (including for contents of an object).
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: it's not so much a "workaround" as simply how the permissions system is expected to function.
*[13:36 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok so I'd have to ensure next owner can modify for each item in the contents?
*[13:36 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst is not overclocked..back at stock speeds
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: yes, Tourma, and test along the way to ensure it's as you expect. deed it and take it back into your inventory.
*[13:37 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: once I deed it, I lose it
*[13:37 SLT] Arawn Spitteler'dlike to be able to show a reference that sys what Windlight is: I think http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight could prbably use some updating, but I can't see Windlight at all.
*[13:37 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: :(
*[13:37 SLT] Youri Ashton: is there any progress in support for 64bit computers?
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: permissions is tricky because there are a number of complications: technical, legal, philosophical.
*[13:37 SLT] Youri Ashton: usually it crashes alot on those system, specially if vista comes along aswell
*[13:37 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: oh yikes lol
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: Arawn, anyone is welcome to update that page, i used to take care of it. feel free to contribute if you have gems to add.
*[13:38 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: It's still phrased for Windlight in the Beta
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, sorry -- i meant "Return" it.
*[13:38 SLT] Kate Linden: Arawn, if you go to World, Environment Settings, Environment Editor, you have access to the sky settings.
*[13:38 SLT] Youri Ashton: unfortunatly i aint in that line of work, else i would try for sure
*[13:39 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I have to dig really deep, if I want to brighten my evening.
*[13:39 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Yes Torley - but returning it after it's deeded - it arrives no mod
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: Arawn, it says at the top "Some of the info below no longer applies but is kept for historical purposes. "
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, i'll check something quickly, sec.
*[13:39 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ty
*[13:39 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: It loos totally historical
*[13:39 SLT] Kate Linden: There are some pretty bright settings in the environment editor! You can brighten your day in moments :)
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, i just tested with a full-permissions object. it arrived back, as expected, with full permissions.
*[13:40 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: Do they come with a powerbeast PC? xD
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: if it arrives "no mod" it may've been restricted in one way or another.
*[13:40 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: :S
*[13:40 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok
*[13:40 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: sighs
*[13:40 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: If I can findmy way there, I can restore the settings I created but, it's kiind of deep
*[13:40 SLT] Youri Ashton: unfortunatly the windlight system doesnt do good lagg-wise. its really causing alot of lagg, so best not try to do anything about that while SL has the lagg problem as it does today
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: sometimes one thing in an object's contents can trip it up, it's tricky, i know. i should ask the bigger question here, Tourma, what's your intention with doing this?
*[13:41 SLT] Geneko Nemeth kinda wished auto-glow settings were in Win-he means Advanced Sky Settings....
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: usually it's simple enough for the original creator to just keep a copy of the object in their inventory so they can rez (and deed) as many as they want.
*[13:41 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: Is it an object you created?
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: i get the feeling there may be subtleties in your case.
*[13:41 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: It's a laptop which has video settings and has to be deeded to the group so the parcel will allow the playing of media
*[13:41 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: it also has a pictures setting - so I can load it with pictures and loop through
*[13:42 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: So, keep copies of th no-mod parts.
*[13:42 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I didnt create it
*[13:42 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: it was a gift from a friend
*[13:42 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: You can't modify as group owner?
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: hm, in that case, it may be a good idea to ask the laptop creator.
*[13:43 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: yes I will .... although the added problem is that he is French and although I speak fluent french these thinggs are not easily explained lol
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: sometimes i've seen no-mod objects like that where the contents (like an editable notecard for settings) is full-perms, so those settings can be copied from one to another.
*[13:43 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I'm not the group owner - but I do have some officer rights
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: awee, yeah we could use a universal translator like on Star Trek. :)
*[13:43 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: lol yeah
*[13:44 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: heh
*[13:44 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: But if you have mod rights when you bought it, deeded it should retain those mod rights to the group and then back to you
*[13:44 SLT] Youri Ashton: there are alot of free ones in SL, but also on internet
*[13:44 SLT] Youri Ashton: so best may look around
*[13:44 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I once had to invite a jampanese to Vineland, to explain what I meant by the game of Go
*[13:44 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: harleen - you'd thing .... :)
*[13:44 SLT] Youri Ashton: euhm... ill see if i have a LM to a free one
*[13:44 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: think*
*[13:44 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: No ... it's a gift
*[13:44 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I don't want another one tx :)
*[13:45 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: Instead of returning it, set it for sale for L$0 and buy it back that is the way most "undeed" an object
*[13:45 SLT] Youri Ashton: there is a LM in the notecard
*[13:45 SLT] Youri Ashton: it has alot of languages in there, not just basic ones
*[13:45 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: oh thanks Youri - I have that translator already - and anyway I speak fluent french as I said. Was just joking :)
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: that's another good subtlety Harleen. unintuitive but useful to know.
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: i forget about that sometimes.
*[13:46 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok so before deeding, set it for sale
*[13:46 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: then deed and I should be able to buy it back ...
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: as long as it has transfer next-owner permissions, yes.
*[13:46 SLT] Harleen Gretzky: You should be able to set it for sale anytime (like after deeding)
*[13:46 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: k
*[13:47 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: woooo nobody speaking?!
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: it got intensely quiet there for a moment :)
*[13:47 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: scarily lol
*[13:47 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: I'm waiting for the coffee.
*[13:47 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: UAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHA
*[13:47 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: UAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA HAHA
*[13:47 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I'll have a hot tea pls
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: oh that was just a supervillain laugh wasn't it
*[13:48 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: with milk
*[13:48 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hello! We're glad you made it. Welcome to... THE FUTURE!
*[13:48 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: HEHEHE
*[13:48 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: ^^
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: welcome to Doc Team office hours!
*[13:48 SLT] Youri Ashton: Helloo!!
*[13:48 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: thar´s my real laugh
*[13:48 SLT] Generaal Joubert: Hewwo ( ^.^)
*[13:48 SLT] Surty Slok: hi torley
*[13:48 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: :( I cant hear sounds right now ... need to relog at the end of the hour :)
*[13:48 SLT] Thereaver Barrymore: *that´s
*[13:48 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: 
*[13:48 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: tsiki tsiki
*[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: heya Surty, your name is quite alliterative
*[13:49 SLT] Surty Slok: ty torley :)
*[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: i keep getting Xstreet delivery notices, oh yay :D in case any of you haven't seen it yet on our http://tr.im/sltnt blog, i listed Torley Textures on Xstreet
*[13:49 SLT] Milla Janick: When will we be getting login splash screen announcements back?
*[13:50 SLT] Youri Ashton: ah nice to know Torley!
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: both to learn how Xstreet works for a merchant, and more convenient... and there's another notice!
*[13:50 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: are they free?
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: YES THEY'RE FREE
*[13:50 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: wooo freebies.
*[13:50 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: i will check it out
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: Milla, i don't know. there are plans/sketches/ideas but nothing firm in the works right now.
*[13:50 SLT] Youri Ashton: Torley has only free things to my knowlage :p
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: it may accompany a future website redesign, but that's tentative, too.
*[13:50 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Why list them on xstreet if they are free?
*[13:50 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: i have a question about xstreet
*[13:51 SLT] Milla Janick: cool, thanks
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, can be easier to access than teleporting to Here island or asking me.
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: 201 copies of Torley Textures given away so far from Xstreet!
*[13:51 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: Speaking of SLX, is there ever gonna be like a HUD you can wear to upload lindens to your SLX account without constantly having to look for a bloody Exchange stand?
*[13:51 SLT] Youri Ashton: ow yeah, me aswell, thanks for reminding me, Gregor
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: Xstreet is really convenient whenever you want something but don't want to TP somewhere else... like if you're in the middle of a photo shoot or busy building
*[13:51 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: in order to place items in xstreet i must load my items in an object inworld
*[13:51 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hey Drazen :D
*[13:52 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: How did you find me? :PP
*[13:52 SLT] Drazen Graves: Hey
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: Ashlene, i don't know about that. i know with OnRez, you were able to pay an avatar. but our Xstreet gurus have been looking at feature suggestions in the Xstreet forums.
*[13:52 SLT] Drazen Graves: twitter!!!
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: i agree it'd be easier than looking for a terminal, Ashlene.
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: especially when the terminal lines are full :o
*[13:52 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: can this object be in a rsdiential sim as well a commercial?
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: Gregor, it can be anywhere that is stable and reasonably permanent.
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: e.g., won't get autoreturned.
*[13:53 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: i see
*[13:53 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: there is the xstreet deposit box..I leave it rezzed in world..so I just click deposit on the xstreet website
*[13:53 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: I'm lazy.. I like to be 'working' while sneakily shopping on X without having to run to a terminal for uploading cash. ^^
*[13:53 SLT] Generaal Joubert: the only disadvantage of Xstreet is still the transfer of money... it's slow...
*[13:53 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: cause i have house in a low prim sim
*[13:53 SLT] Youri Ashton: I would like to know if the picture upload could be changed, I know there are systems where you just use ZIP programs to zip the pictures up, then upload the zip and it automaticly gets unpacked on the server. Is this also possible for xStreet? because you wont have a great time uploading 30+ pictures!
*[13:53 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: world -> Environment Settings -> Environment Editor -> etc requires search each time, to make the vening less dark.
*[13:53 SLT] Torley Linden: Bio, i didn't know about that! GOOD to know, gosh, maybe we should make that more obvious.
*[13:53 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: and i want to to rez it there
*[13:53 SLT] Torley Linden: Generaal: slow how? details please... ?
*[13:53 SLT] Gregor Dayafter: but its commercial activity
*[13:54 SLT] Generaal Joubert: well, it sometimes takes up to 15 minutes for the money that was deposited to be added to the account
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, haha, i ran into the exact same thing. i agree a batch uploader would be best, i don't know of one yet. but i had multiple browser tabs open.
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks Bio!
*[13:54 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: Bio, do you know how/where to get it because I had no clue either.
*[13:54 SLT] Generaal Joubert: annoying if you're waiting to buy something
*[13:54 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: ok it still says slexchange in title but it did get its texture changed to xstreet
*[13:54 SLT] Youri Ashton: i know a website that actually has this system
*[13:54 SLT] Youri Ashton: if you like, i could give the link
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: *note to self... research Remote Deposit boxes... find out why they aren't being promoted enough?*
*[13:54 SLT] SL Exchange Remote Deposit: Initializing communications...
*[13:54 SLT] SL Exchange Remote Deposit: Communications online.
*[13:55 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: Thank you Bio ㋡
*[13:55 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: Yes very good Torley, lol.
*[13:55 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: yw
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: i guess one tricky subtlety with those Remote Deposit boxes are, you'd have to trust you had an authentic version. someone could make a scammy lookalike.
*[13:55 SLT] Generaal Joubert: well, torley, if you use remote deposit, it takes even longer to deposit money then to find a terminal...
*[13:55 SLT] Geneko Nemeth: /makes notes that Flash and Google Gears can be used to select multiple files for upload at once.
*[13:56 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: yeah...I got mine from website but made sure it was by the ppl that ran it
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: i remember coming across the first "invisible box" scams, where someone would place an invisi-cube over a vendor and people would pay into that instead of the actual vendor, intercepting sales.
*[13:56 SLT] Youri Ashton: now i know where i seen your name before bio! on xstreet forums! haha, nice to see you inworld for a change!
*[13:56 SLT] Generaal Joubert: well, never rez it in a sanbox, but at your home
*[13:56 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: oh wow.
*[13:56 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: hahaha
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: Generaal, hm, our Xstreet staff should investigate what's happening there. i haven't experienced that long a delay unless my account was on hold.
*[13:56 SLT] Youri Ashton: Torley: the link i was talking about: http://www.brickshelf.com/
*[13:57 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: always inworld...though all my sales are on xstreet
*[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, wow, there's some accomplished builds there.
*[13:57 SLT] Generaal Joubert: Well, torley, I do still use the remote deposit, but only if I'm in no rush to get the money into the account, a terminal can take a while, but remote deposit takes up to half an hour sometimes
*[13:58 SLT] Youri Ashton: same for me, inworld my things wont even sell for a little bit.
*[13:58 SLT] Youri Ashton: not even free or almost free things
*[13:58 SLT] Generaal Joubert: seems like inworld shopping is getting less popular
*[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I actually know quite a few people who search for things on XStreet so they can later find and buy them inworld.
*[13:59 SLT] Youri Ashton: Torley; Yes it is! I myself do alot in LEGO aswell, my things are on there aswell, but I mostly use my own website for it
*[13:59 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Sonichu - fly up
*[13:59 SLT] Ashlene McMinnar: I browse X to see stuff I like.. then usually end up TP'ing to shop in-world to see more items of vice versa. Saves a lot of TP/rezz time wasted on horrible shops.
*[13:59 SLT] Leila Altamura: doink!
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: Jeremy, i've found myself doing that to explore someone's inworld shop. some things i prefer to preview in 3D (if there's a product demo).
*[13:59 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:59 SLT] Leila Altamura: spinnin
*[13:59 SLT] Leila Altamura: spinnin
*[13:59 SLT] Generaal Joubert: same here, I look for stuff on XSL, but I want to see it before I buy it, so inworld I have a better chance off seeing it
*[13:59 SLT] Youri Ashton: http://ds9lego.com/
*[13:59 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I sometimes do that cos sometimes it is cheaper to buy it in world, some ppl add a little extra on to the xstreet price to allow for the percentage cut
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: Xstreet has the advantage of faster-loading textures, so really, making the best of both worlds.
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: that is my own website
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: filled with my own builds
*[14:00 SLT] Leila Altamura: hi hi!
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: soon a new website, but ow well
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: it'd been so long since i played with Lego.
*[14:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden snips here for the chatlog.
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