Mesh/Archive/2011-03-07

== Agenda ==
March 7, 2011
# Can we have for the Copyright rules a new User Groupe Hour ? Ithink the Mesh User Groupe hour is the wrong place for Copyright rules. Its better we can ask a advocate from the legal department.
## Is a legal representative available to clarify the breadth of what constitutes re-use of the avatar mesh covered under the CC BY-SA 3.0?
# Can we sell the skin and Mesh which were made from Avator Obj of CC BY-SA 3.0 in the second life?
# Are the upload costs displayed by Develop|Show Info|Show Upload Cost for selected items finalised yet?
# Why does Develop|Show Info|Show Upload Cost say Textures=L$20 for meshes uploaded and rezzed without textures?
# When will we (or do we already) have the new encroachment stuff to test with mesh, and can we have a parcel with short auto-return on a sandbox to test it?
# Bones mCollarLeft and mCollarRight not respecting some settings upon import.
# Could we possibly get a hotkey combo for mesh uploads? (and for that matter, is there a specific reason why only textures get this currently?
# Is there a reason why downloads of the mesh dev viewer frequently fail to install due to NSIS installer integrity errors? How can testers avoid this issue?
# Is it possible to "part out" all the new features mesh will bring into their own micro projects? For instance llCastRay(), 64m Objects, Mesh, Avatar Rigged Meshes, and etc. That way we could release more features without having to wait for one single feature.
# When will mesh be available on maingrid?
# My understanding is that if a sculpt is made and uploaded as a sculpt, it will be legacy at 10L/sculpt; if it is remapped and uploaded as mesh it will be at whatever price is determined for mesh. Is that correct?
# A speaker's user name is not displayed on the chat log on viewer 222769. A speaker's name is displayed to "Loading...”. There is no speaker name in a log text file. Is this fault?
== Meeting Notes ==
* [2011/03/07 11:02] Eleanora Newell: hi, oskar
* [2011/03/07 11:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [2011/03/07 11:02] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): hi hi
* [2011/03/07 11:02] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Hai guize :D
* [2011/03/07 11:02] Eleanora Newell: hey, dan made it
* [2011/03/07 11:03] Rusalka Writer: Where's Qarl?
* [2011/03/07 11:03] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): who's charlar?
* [2011/03/07 11:03] Charlar Linden: charlar is the product owner for mesh
* [2011/03/07 11:04] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ?
* [2011/03/07 11:04] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): oh that Charlar
* [2011/03/07 11:04] Rusalka Writer: Yes, be nice, Charlar owns us all now.
* [2011/03/07 11:04] Zep Palen: in other words..an alt ㋡
* [2011/03/07 11:04] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): ownz with a z
* [2011/03/07 11:04] bigjr Slade: osker please hug him .)
* [2011/03/07 11:04] Rusalka Writer: Sit quietly, don't make trouble.
* [2011/03/07 11:04] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): /me hugs him
* [2011/03/07 11:04] Charlar Linden: be right back. everybody be good now.
* [2011/03/07 11:05] Rusalka Writer: Whatever shall I wear?
* [2011/03/07 11:05] bigjr Slade: and prep is ????
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Aki (aki.shichiroji): ...
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Nyx Linden: prep is out of office today
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Nyx Linden: he'll be back next week
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I see Dan over there
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Hi Charlar, Vir
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Timmi Allen: I think there are enough Lindens present.
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Zagro Ferraris: it was just a uvw map file i need a test that uses texturs i've appliedflip whats with the box o names? myself
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Charlar Linden: I am back - was everyone good?
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Zagro Ferraris: arg whops
* [2011/03/07 11:06] Zagro Ferraris: FLIP whats with the box of names?
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Charlar Linden: we'll start in a sec
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Rusalka Writer: Heh heh heh.
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Nyx Linden: /me is chaotic neutral. never know what I'm going to do :)
* [2011/03/07 11:07] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Script counter
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Charlar Linden: when Davep comes back
* [2011/03/07 11:07] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): I'm at 66. watch me go to 0
* [2011/03/07 11:07] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): boom
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Rusalka Writer: When should we start crashing?
* [2011/03/07 11:07] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): much more efficient
* [2011/03/07 11:07] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Cheter :P
* [2011/03/07 11:07] Zagro Ferraris: could ya move it to your hud?
* [2011/03/07 11:07] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): I think flip is blocking zagro's view
* [2011/03/07 11:08] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Okie dokie
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Zagro Ferraris: thanks it kept pushing my camra around
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Nyx Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Mesh_Office_Hours_Agenda
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Nebadon Izumi: :( resized my viewer window and it crashed
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Charlar Linden: everybody ready?
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Rusalka Writer: I did and it didn't.
* [2011/03/07 11:08] davep (runitai.linden): click "send report"
* [2011/03/07 11:08] davep (runitai.linden): w00!
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): have been
* [2011/03/07 11:08] Charlar Linden: first item
* [2011/03/07 11:08] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Always ready :D
* [2011/03/07 11:09] Charlar Linden: Can we have for the Copyright rules a new User Groupe Hour ? Ithink the Mesh User Groupe hour is the wrong place for Copyright rules. Its better we can ask a advocate from the legal department.
* [2011/03/07 11:09] Rusalka Writer: I was rezzed ready.
* [2011/03/07 11:09] Timmi Allen: this is a very good idea
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Charlar Linden: I think if it applies to mesh, we should address it here
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Aki (aki.shichiroji): /me disagrees if it has relevancy to use of mesh assets made by LL
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Stickman: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3263
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Aki (aki.shichiroji): we're not only here to test but help to develop policy later on
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Charlar Linden: worst case we bring someone in - but we should be able to hash it out
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Charlar Linden: agree with Aki
* [2011/03/07 11:10] Rex Cronon: think of all them meshes from other games that wait to be uploaded...
* [2011/03/07 11:11] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): oh lord... that's gonna be huge when mesh first hits
* [2011/03/07 11:11] Rusalka Writer: Going to main grid without an intellectual property plan is a mistake.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Timmi Allen: but we must take the guys from the Law Department.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Stickman: The copyright policy is already in place. It's just not enforced proactively.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Charlar Linden: IP strategy is something we're not ready to talk about - yet.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Stickman: The copyright holder has to request action be taken. Which is how it's designed legally as well.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Stickman: Some sites, like DeviantArt, allow non-holders to submit claims and act on them. But that is not legally required.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Rusalka Writer: They also serve who only stand and wait.
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Charlar Linden: can we move on?
* [2011/03/07 11:12] Zagro Ferraris: the bigest thing is ppl ripping the modles out of games for avatar use direct rips are a nono remakes not so nono but eh
* [2011/03/07 11:13] Charlar Linden: next: Is a legal representative available to clarify the breadth of what constitutes re-use of the avatar mesh covered under the CC BY-SA 3.0?
* [2011/03/07 11:13] Aki (aki.shichiroji): (and if not, when?)
* [2011/03/07 11:14] Charlar Linden: We're going to move to a different license
* [2011/03/07 11:15] Charlar Linden: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
* [2011/03/07 11:15] Rex Cronon: so, how close r we to mesh comming to main?
* [2011/03/07 11:15] Nyx Linden: stick to the agenda please Rex :)
* [2011/03/07 11:15] Nyx Linden: (feel free to add topics)
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Charlar Linden: Any comments on tht license change?
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Eleanora Newell: can you explain what the license means?
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Aki (aki.shichiroji): I think it's a positive change, but it would probably be prudent to nail down exactly what it means for SL
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Nyx Linden: attributation only, not share-alike
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Rex Cronon: well. do u see anybody talking about what is on the agenda?
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Nyx Linden: yes I do rex :D
* [2011/03/07 11:16] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): by seems more useful than by sa
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): sounds like you only have to state you used/started with the standard av mesh
* [2011/03/07 11:16] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Rex: we're talking about what's on the agenda now. Please check the agenda here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Mesh_Office_Hours_Agenda#March_7.2C_2011
* [2011/03/07 11:17] Rex Cronon: must be something wrong on my end, because i see lots of silence
* [2011/03/07 11:17] Stickman: Just add it to the end of the agenda on the wiki, Rex.
* [2011/03/07 11:17] Aki (aki.shichiroji): perhaps you have folks muted?
* [2011/03/07 11:17] Timmi Allen: LOL Aki
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Rex Cronon: i might have reception problems. i don't have anybody muted.
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Charlar Linden: ok, how about we move on?
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Nebadon Izumi: nice change on the license
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Nyx Linden: any questions on the license change? we'll get the download updated later :)
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Skygirl Kline: move into mesh HQ1?
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Charlar Linden: and thanks for all your input, it was really helpful for us.
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Timmi Allen: Charlar, when we see looks like the new license, then
* [2011/03/07 11:18] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): when the Obj file updated?
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Thanks for being receptive re: input on the issue.
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Charlar Linden: Timmi - you're asked when we'll see the new license?
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Nyx Linden: once I find the time to update the zip :)
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Nyx Linden: aka soooooon
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Charlar Linden: next: Are the upload costs displayed by Develop|Show Info|Show Upload Cost for selected items finalised yet?
* [2011/03/07 11:19] Timmi Allen: yes
* [2011/03/07 11:20] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): OK I am waiting for the update.
* [2011/03/07 11:20] Nyx Linden: I'll ping you when its up Yuzuru
* [2011/03/07 11:20] Rusalka Writer: Including ARC...
* [2011/03/07 11:20] Zagro Ferraris: and what will be the cost if your uploading a multipart item i build my things in pices alot of the time.....
* [2011/03/07 11:20] davep (runitai.linden): Upload costs aren't finalized yet -- you can be pretty sure costs are going to go up in general, the hold up right now is a reworking of the sim rez pipeline that will make the costs the simulator reports more reliable. Once the reports are reliable, we can get accurate measurements on whole scene polycount vs whole scene prim cost and tune accordingly. As it is, we're more or less tuning blind, and the client doesn't have enough information on its own to determine the cost of the whole scene without a major reworking of the mesh streaming pipeline (the client only downloads the parts of the mesh it needs, but the whole mesh asset is needed to determine streaming cost).
* [2011/03/07 11:20] Zagro Ferraris: one file sevrel dozen indevidual parts 3ds max tends to split elemints that dont have conecting poligons
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Eleanora Newell: nyx, maybe you could put a notice in the cbp crew group?
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Rusalka Writer: We're not going to main grid Thursday, are we?
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Nyx Linden: can do Eleanora
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Stickman: "Costs are going to go up in general" means standard uploads are going to be cost-rated? Textures depending on size, etc?
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Charlar Linden: I'm waiting so everyone has a chance to read Daveps opus
* [2011/03/07 11:21] Stickman: *L$5 to save a script*
* [2011/03/07 11:22] Drongle McMahon: Ugh. Isn't the cost styored in the asset (except for size effect)?
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): no, it means in general meshes are going to have a higher prim equivalence
* [2011/03/07 11:22] Eleanora Newell: ty, nyx
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): upload fees are a completely different issue
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): oh, crap
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): I totally misread the question
* [2011/03/07 11:22] Zep Palen: ㋡
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): i thought it was a bout prim equivalence
* [2011/03/07 11:22] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): we're talking about L$ costs
* [2011/03/07 11:22] Zagro Ferraris: i'm talking upload fees
* [2011/03/07 11:22] davep (runitai.linden): :-p
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Stickman: Yay, misinformation!
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Rusalka Writer: It's okay, we're concerned about both.
* [2011/03/07 11:23] davep (runitai.linden): w00
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Stickman: You're too late, Runitai! I've quoted you all over the internet already! Mwahahaha!
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Charlar Linden: ok, so, any question about what Dave was talking about
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Zagro Ferraris: i mean if thers a set rate per elemint im buggerd. max splits stuff up so easly when converting using open calada
* [2011/03/07 11:23] Charlar Linden: then we'll move over to L$ cost
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): you mean prim equivalence?
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Aki (aki.shichiroji): err welll... prim equivalency... what kind of percentage increase should we expect?
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Drongle McMahon: I think prim cost is ehuff already, but that isn't a question :-(
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Rusalka Writer: We don't want mesh to end up with the same prim count as the equivalent plain prim structure, and pay more for it.
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Zagro Ferraris: i'm talking L costs
* [2011/03/07 11:24] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I'm thinking meshes are being penalized enough already. It's kinda difficult to believe a <= 128 triangle mesh is counted as 2 prims
* [2011/03/07 11:25] Eleanora Newell: charlar, what was dave talking about, i didn't see himm say anything?
* [2011/03/07 11:25] Zagro Ferraris: Wait a cube has more triangles in it than that lots more becos of all the preset cuts and slices
* [2011/03/07 11:25] bigjr Slade: dave is out of range ?
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Charlar Linden: dave is like that sometimes
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Drongle McMahon: He was talking about prim costs.
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Stickman: Runitai/davep said the prim equivilant count of meshes was going to be more expensive, but hasn't mentioned Linden Dollar upload cost increase yet.
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Charlar Linden: on the topic of L$...
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Rusalka Writer: Yes, please.
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Charlar Linden: Nothing is final, the number you are seeing are just debug
* [2011/03/07 11:26] Eleanora Newell: ah, thanks
* [2011/03/07 11:27] Charlar Linden: we've been focused on everything else, we'll start talking about L$ later, when we're closer and have a better grasp on the the accounting Dave was talking about
* [2011/03/07 11:28] Charlar Linden: next: Why does Develop|Show Info|Show Upload Cost say Textures=L$20 for meshes uploaded and rezzed without textures?
* [2011/03/07 11:28] Drongle McMahon: Please don't waste all the mesh work by making them too expensive.
* [2011/03/07 11:28] davep (runitai.linden): It's because the debug display counts each unique sculpt id as a unique texture, and meshes use the sculpt id
* [2011/03/07 11:28] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): as much as mesh is being hamstrung here, who's going to be able to afford the prim space to use them?
* [2011/03/07 11:29] Rusalka Writer: Agree with Drongle.
* [2011/03/07 11:29] Zagro Ferraris: i thought one of the mesh things was to use the same triangle count as a torrus
* [2011/03/07 11:29] Zagro Ferraris: per prim
* [2011/03/07 11:29] Drongle McMahon: So there are always 2+actual textures??
* [2011/03/07 11:30] davep (runitai.linden): Drongle: right, it's counting the diffuse texture and the mesh as a sculpt texture
* [2011/03/07 11:30] davep (runitai.linden): it's just a dumb debug display that gives a rough guess at what it cost to upload what you're looking at, don't read too much into it
* [2011/03/07 11:30] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): does this mean that sculpts will become accounted differently
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Drongle McMahon: But why not include that in the mesh part of the cost?
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Rusalka Writer: Back on the crazy train.
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Zagro Ferraris: ok given all this and that one thing we realy need
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Drongle McMahon: OK. I will ignore it for now/
* [2011/03/07 11:31] NeoBokrug Elytis: Aren't we going to figure out how much stuff will cost at a later date?
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Zagro Ferraris: tgemporary uploads of meshes to a sim so we can check re edit and reupload fixes
* [2011/03/07 11:31] davep (runitai.linden): mostly it was written to measure the cost of uploading textures/sculpts in a non-mesh scene to get an idea of what people are used to paying in upload fees now
* [2011/03/07 11:31] Zagro Ferraris: without it braking the bank
* [2011/03/07 11:32] Rusalka Writer: Nobody's going to learn mesh if the only improvement is lag.
* [2011/03/07 11:32] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): I wouldnt bet on that
* [2011/03/07 11:32] Stickman: Doesn't matter how laggy meshes are. People are going to use them.
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): I'm looking forward to using mesh uvmapping to reduce texture use
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Zep Palen: when did lag become an improvement?
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Rusalka Writer: I guess it would be avatars that's the gain.
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Eleanora Newell: but sculpts remain legacy, 10L/sculpt so long as they are uploaded as sculpts, right?
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Nyx Linden: +1 Hypatia :)
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Drongle McMahon: Peple will use mesh attacments with complete abondon.
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Rusalka Writer: But we're all hoping for prim count improvements at a reasonable cost.
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Zagro Ferraris: it's supsoed to be so you can make somthing and put the triangles where they count insted of wasting them on a big wall that only needs 2 triangles
* [2011/03/07 11:33] Charlar Linden: how about we get back to the agenda?
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Charlar Linden: next: When will we (or do we already) have the new encroachment stuff to test with mesh, and can we have a parcel with short auto-return on a sandbox to test it?
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): Drongle: if that mesh is rigged as a complete body, it'll HELP keep render costs down
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Aki (aki.shichiroji): will encroachment release be tied to mesh release?
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Aki (aki.shichiroji): or is it possible for it to be released earlier?
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Aki (aki.shichiroji): (beyond the current RCs, i mean)
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: what the heck is encroachment release.? i missed that
* [2011/03/07 11:34] Nebadon Izumi: is there a wiki page?
* [2011/03/07 11:35] davep (runitai.linden): "ecnroachment" refers to the ability to return objects that overlap your parcel
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ah
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Zagro Ferraris: and is encrochment rliant on bounding box or vertex overflow i've seen alot of things have some mesed up bounding boxes
* [2011/03/07 11:35] davep (runitai.linden): not just objects that have their center position on your parcel
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Aki (aki.shichiroji): if Mesh Sandbox 15 is enabled, it's easily tested now, i think.
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: nice
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Drongle McMahon: new encroachment stuff = ability to return stuff that overhangs at all, not just center.
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Aki (aki.shichiroji): a number of us have parcels there.
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Rusalka Writer: There go all the trees in SL...
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Zep Palen: including Govenor Linden's trees?
* [2011/03/07 11:35] davep (runitai.linden): with 64m prim scale limits, the ability to return overhanging prims is a REQUIREMENT
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Rex Cronon: hmm. i guess i was wrong thinking that the agenda is just an outline of what is being discussed at OH(group meeting, or whatever u want to call this):(
* [2011/03/07 11:35] Nebadon Izumi: ya that makes sense, but there have always been megas hehe
* [2011/03/07 11:35] davep (runitai.linden): (with obvious exceptions for content owned by the estate owner)
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Zep Palen: sighs
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Stickman: Rex, don't be a jerk. Especially not to the hand that feeds you. :>
* [2011/03/07 11:36] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): we feed you now?
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Stickman: Digitally, yes.
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Drongle McMahon: .... but the question? .... do we know?
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Nyx Linden: we have hands?
* [2011/03/07 11:36] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): "let them eat prims"
* [2011/03/07 11:36] Rusalka Writer: Meanwhile, back at te agenda...
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Nebadon Izumi: lol
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Rex Cronon: since when is called being a jerk when u state the obvious?
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Zep Palen: hmm..as far as I know we are the ones feeding Linden ㋡
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Stickman: FDA daily requirements of digital infusion are around 200g.
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Charlar Linden: Next: Bones mCollarLeft and mCollarRight not respecting some settings upon import.
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Rusalka Writer: Can it or they'll shut up again.
* [2011/03/07 11:37] bigjr Slade: :) no easter egg 2011 in maingrid as mesh
* [2011/03/07 11:37] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): 200g or 200kb?
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): this is more of a bug report
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Stickman: All in how you say it, Rex.
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): you can see it in my av
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Drongle McMahon: Hey ... nobody answered the last one!
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Stickman: 200g. And do you have any idea how many electrons that is?
* [2011/03/07 11:37] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): basically, it appears to be the cause of the really wide shoulders my avs get
* [2011/03/07 11:38] Charlar Linden: drongle - which last one?
* [2011/03/07 11:38] davep (runitai.linden): oh, whoops
* [2011/03/07 11:38] Charlar Linden: oh, hold on
* [2011/03/07 11:38] Rex Cronon: i am not one calling u a jerk. am i stickman:)
* [2011/03/07 11:38] davep (runitai.linden): explained what it was and got distracted by the name calling
* [2011/03/07 11:38] Stickman: Actually, the collar bug has existed in deformations, too, interestingly enough. The shoulders are always wide when "deforming." I think it's an issue with the provided default skeleton being inaccurate.
* [2011/03/07 11:38] davep (runitai.linden): KNOCK IT OFF
* [2011/03/07 11:38] Zagro Ferraris: davep your lod kicks in Way to soon on that av
* [2011/03/07 11:39] Drongle McMahon: Charlar....The question about testing encroachment with meshes
* [2011/03/07 11:39] Charlar Linden: got it - sorry
* [2011/03/07 11:39] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): (yes, I'm trying to use offset bones, but it's acting like they start at the center, and not where the point is
* [2011/03/07 11:39] Charlar Linden: We don't have an answer yet, we'll look into the schedule
* [2011/03/07 11:40] Drongle McMahon: OK, Thanks
* [2011/03/07 11:40] Zagro Ferraris: Why is half of what i type getting reworded in perenthaseesw?
* [2011/03/07 11:40] davep (runitai.linden): auto-translate
* [2011/03/07 11:40] Drongle McMahon: Zagro ... you have google translation on
* [2011/03/07 11:41] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I think that if it's a problem with the avatar bone files we are trying to rig to, the skeleton needs an update so what we see and do is what we get
* [2011/03/07 11:41] Zagro Ferraris: google translate thanks LOD kicks in is plump line?
* [2011/03/07 11:41] Charlar Linden: Drongle - wish I had more (I'll researchg), but let's move on.
* [2011/03/07 11:41] Charlar Linden: next: Bones mCollarLeft and mCollarRight not respecting some settings upon import.
* [2011/03/07 11:41] davep (runitai.linden): please enter a jira for that if one doesn't exist yet
* [2011/03/07 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): prep will probably be handling that, but he's out today
* [2011/03/07 11:42] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ....I'm sorry, but after the garbage I had to go through after the last time I filed a jira, I can't use it anymore
* [2011/03/07 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): send prep an IM ?
* [2011/03/07 11:42] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I can do that much, anyway
* [2011/03/07 11:42] Drongle McMahon: Davep ... bone or encroachment (4 jira)?
* [2011/03/07 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): bone
* [2011/03/07 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): (sample content FTW)
* [2011/03/07 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): providing sample content helps us out a ton
* [2011/03/07 11:43] Charlar Linden: next: Could we possibly get a hotkey combo for mesh uploads? (and for that matter, is there a specific reason why only textures get this currently?
* [2011/03/07 11:43] davep (runitai.linden): can run it by the Rx folks, but we've already got a LOT of hot keys
* [2011/03/07 11:43] davep (runitai.linden): (running out of keys)
* [2011/03/07 11:43] Zagro Ferraris: lol
* [2011/03/07 11:43] Aki (aki.shichiroji): d'oh
* [2011/03/07 11:43] Rusalka Writer: Wadint into Viewer 2 problems in general.
* [2011/03/07 11:44] Rusalka Writer: Wading...
* [2011/03/07 11:44] Zagro Ferraris: i'd rather see a upload indecator and a temp upload option
* [2011/03/07 11:44] Zagro Ferraris: guessing if your done uploading is anoying
* [2011/03/07 11:44] Rusalka Writer: I'd rather see a desktop-style viewer.
* [2011/03/07 11:44] davep (runitai.linden): SL as your desktop backgorund would be neat
* [2011/03/07 11:45] davep (runitai.linden): (I digress)
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Rex Cronon: if it doesn't crash
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Charlar Linden: we've got 15 minuytes left
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Rusalka Writer: A viewer where different elements can be placed as icons or hidden away would be great.
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Charlar Linden: let's keep going so we get to everyone's agenda
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Nebadon Izumi: heh, my desktop is literall covered in icons
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Charlar Linden: next: Is there a reason why downloads of the mesh dev viewer frequently fail to install due to NSIS installer integrity errors? How can testers avoid this issue?
* [2011/03/07 11:45] bigjr Slade: i want see a new CHATbar.. the groupechat not open more times in the last months
* [2011/03/07 11:45] Rusalka Writer: Untidy...
* [2011/03/07 11:45] davep (runitai.linden): I've only ever seen that if I run the installer before it finishes downloading
* [2011/03/07 11:46] Aki (aki.shichiroji): i frequently have to dl the viewer 4-5 times before it will install properly
* [2011/03/07 11:46] Zagro Ferraris: when i tried to log in to day it kept telling me to update but kept giving me old files over and over and over
* [2011/03/07 11:46] Aki (aki.shichiroji): and i do wait until the download finishes.
* [2011/03/07 11:46] Rusalka Writer: I've had no similar problems with the Mac viewer.
* [2011/03/07 11:46] Aki (aki.shichiroji): /me is on a PC, using FF
* [2011/03/07 11:46] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): theres also an issue of slvoice.exe running from a previous session halting an install, but thats all v2 currently
* [2011/03/07 11:46] davep (runitai.linden): no idea -- i use chrome
* [2011/03/07 11:47] Zagro Ferraris: kill the prosess tree in task maniger
* [2011/03/07 11:47] Aki (aki.shichiroji): i'll give downloading with chrome a try for next week. but this has been a problem for me for a few months now.
* [2011/03/07 11:47] davep (runitai.linden): go ahead and jirafy that for snowstorm
* [2011/03/07 11:47] Nebadon Izumi: i use firefox, i download the mesh daily just about every other day, never been a problem here
* [2011/03/07 11:48] Charlar Linden: how about the next agenda item?
* [2011/03/07 11:48] Rusalka Writer: We're doing well.
* [2011/03/07 11:48] Charlar Linden: next: Is it possible to "part out" all the new features mesh will bring into their own micro projects? For instance llCastRay(), 64m Objects, Mesh, Avatar Rigged Meshes, and etc. That way we could release more features without having to wait for one single feature.
* [2011/03/07 11:48] Charlar Linden: you are doing well
* [2011/03/07 11:48] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): /me has to leave early
* [2011/03/07 11:48] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): take care oskar
* [2011/03/07 11:48] Rusalka Writer: Aloha.
* [2011/03/07 11:48] NeoBokrug Elytis: Please?
* [2011/03/07 11:48] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Bai
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Charlar Linden: There's a lot of interdependancy between these items.
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Bye Oskar
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Rex Cronon: tc oskar
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Rusalka Writer: Ah, so 64m prims on the main grid ahead of mesh, maybe?
* [2011/03/07 11:49] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): my only agenda topic was that I updated the region maturities to a nice mix of G, M, and A so now teens can come test MESH so spread the word
* [2011/03/07 11:49] uǝpuıן ɹɐʞso (oskar.linden): l8r)
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Charlar Linden: We'll overload our QA with multiple passes, have to do more code merges, etc.
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Rusalka Writer: No fair, they'll be better at it than we are.
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Nebadon Izumi: heh
* [2011/03/07 11:49] F L I P (flip.idlemind): Yeah, like, does llCastRay require all the other mesh stuff, or could we get that early?
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Charlar Linden: We are trying very hard to keep from piling anything new onto mesh.
* [2011/03/07 11:49] Rusalka Writer: Youth must be suppressed!
* [2011/03/07 11:50] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): (and the cycle continues)
* [2011/03/07 11:50] Drongle McMahon: Oh. No bad words when your mesh goes to 0,0,0!
* [2011/03/07 11:50] Zagro Ferraris: ahumm what is llcastray?
* [2011/03/07 11:50] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): LOL!
* [2011/03/07 11:50] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I remember having just part of my mesh shooting off to 0,0,0.... ROFL!
* [2011/03/07 11:50] NeoBokrug Elytis: Of those things what aren't interdependant?
* [2011/03/07 11:50] Nebadon Izumi: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlCastRay
* [2011/03/07 11:51] Rex Cronon: is a new lsl function that acts like a laser pointer and tells u what it hits
* [2011/03/07 11:51] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ...I think that was December 12, 2010...
* [2011/03/07 11:51] Stickman: One of Falcon's babies.
* [2011/03/07 11:51] Nyx Linden: breaking the features out into multiple releases adds higher costs for rollout - multiple test cycles, many merges, and slows down our release process
* [2011/03/07 11:51] Charlar Linden: sometimes the connections are because of related code, sometimes related people. Sometimes it's because in the past we piled it together and now it'd take extra time to pull it back out.
* [2011/03/07 11:52] NeoBokrug Elytis: But you could argue that. having one big release sort of makes a big nebulous thing where you can't test everything to it's fullest?
* [2011/03/07 11:52] Rusalka Writer: The full monty.
* [2011/03/07 11:52] Charlar Linden: you could, and that's what we're mitigating against
* [2011/03/07 11:53] Charlar Linden: It's not a straightforward process, pulling items out for independant release
* [2011/03/07 11:53] bigjr Slade: neo you test all days the dev version ?
* [2011/03/07 11:53] Nyx Linden: its also easier to ask for help testing one release rather than 8 :)
* [2011/03/07 11:53] Rusalka Writer: And the shouting will be much louder and more exciting!
* [2011/03/07 11:53] NeoBokrug Elytis: No, but I work on a lot of things all of the time. I know bigger releases can be problematic. I feel like Mesh as a whole is slowing down great features that could already be on the grid.
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Rusalka Writer: I'm going to bring a sandwich and make a day of it.
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Nyx Linden: at this point breaking the features up would slow down our release process further :)
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Charlar Linden: oh, we've got 5 minutes and several items left
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Nebadon Izumi: go go goooooo
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Rusalka Writer: Roll 'em.
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Charlar Linden: point taken about mesh release size.
* [2011/03/07 11:54] Charlar Linden: moving on
* [2011/03/07 11:54] NeoBokrug Elytis: So we're past the point of no return then.
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Charlar Linden: next: When will mesh be available on maingrid?
* [2011/03/07 11:55] davep (runitai.linden): NeoBokrug -- in hindisght, these things could have and probalby should havbe been broken up
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: when the mesh thermometer pops out?
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Rusalka Writer: We've spotted the iceberg, carry on!
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Charlar Linden: answer: when it's ready
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Zagro Ferraris: so raycast is a more focused sensor?
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Stickman: Hindsight is such a wonderful thing. If only it could be preemptive.
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): pretty much, Zagro
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Nyx Linden: /me bastes his meshes in wd40
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Rusalka Writer: Charlar, tell us there's no date already.
* [2011/03/07 11:55] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Charlar Linden: rushing on...
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Charlar Linden: next: My understanding is that if a sculpt is made and uploaded as a sculpt, it will be legacy at 10L/sculpt; if it is remapped and uploaded as mesh it will be at whatever price is determined for mesh. Is that correct?
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Zagro Ferraris: has posabilites given theres no distince lemits
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Charlar Linden: yes, as far as Davep knows
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Pie A Linden 1.0: whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Pie A Linden 1.0: whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Nebadon Izumi: i would think it would be pretty difficult to determine a regular texture from a sculpt texture wouldnt it?
* [2011/03/07 11:56] Rusalka Writer: Will they still be smooth and all the tricks we've played to make a sharp edge still work?
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Rusalka Writer: The no broken content rule?
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Charlar Linden: final - A speaker's user name is not displayed on the chat log on viewer 222769. A speaker's name is displayed to "Loading...”. There is no speaker name in a log text file. Is this fault?
* [2011/03/07 11:57] davep (runitai.linden): sounds like a job for snowstorm
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Rusalka Writer: Confusement...
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Stickman: The display name bug belongs to the snowstorm team, not the mesh team.
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Rex Cronon: afk. in case i don't make it back. tc everybody leaving
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I lost the speakers name of this meeting..
* [2011/03/07 11:57] Zagro Ferraris: arrg gota run
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Rusalka Writer: Aloha.
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Eleanora Newell: thanks, everyone...thanks, lindens :)
* [2011/03/07 11:58] davep (runitai.linden): crashy crashy
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Eleanora Newell: see you all next week
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Drongle McMahon: Congratlulations to Lindens for staying alive this time.
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Rusalka Writer: Wow, we kept meeting to the end of the meeting!
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): oh lord...
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Rusalka Writer: Oh, noes!
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Charlar Linden: and pies
* [2011/03/07 11:58] ʎןɥʇob ɐıʇuɐp (dantia.gothly): really
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Vir Linden: pies!
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Stickman: I like pie.
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Eleanora Newell: heh
* [2011/03/07 11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Eleanora Newell: later, everyone
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): so please post this meeting's log to the forum.
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Charlar Linden: that means this is over
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): umm
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Stickman: Thanks for the answers!
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Nyx Linden: yum, pie....
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): quick question before I get going
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya thanks guys, see you next week
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Charlar Linden: btw - we had a delay because of the switch over to the new system.
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): err you do, anyway
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Rex Cronon: back
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Aki (aki.shichiroji): new system....?
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Charlar Linden: Last weeks and this weeks will come soon. Sorry for the delay
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Aki (aki.shichiroji): oh ok
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Charlar Linden: new forums/blos
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ...how can I get some content to Prep to look at?
* [2011/03/07 11:59] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ...without going through the jira
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Charlar Linden: attach to a jira
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Aki (aki.shichiroji): will it be on the WIKI or on the Forum? we also seem to be missing last week's... at least last time i checked
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I'm staying far, far, FAR away from the jira, unfortunately
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Charlar Linden: I'll put a link on the agenda page.
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Ah cool, thanks
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Charlar Linden: I think it will have to on the wiki, still puzzling it out.
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Charlar, please tell me the url of this meeting's log..
* [2011/03/07 12:00] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): like I say, my last experience with that was... the reason I was gone for so long
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Fancy Linden Greeter: Charlar Linden has arrived
* [2011/03/07 12:01] davep (runitai.linden): P.S. Nyx REALLY wants a pony cannon
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Charlar Linden: thanks for the good meeting. - agenda link: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Mesh_Office_Hours_Agenda
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Aki (aki.shichiroji): :O
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Rusalka Writer: Finally, ponies.
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Charlar Linden: ciao
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Timmi Allen: bye at all LL
* [2011/03/07 12:01] byes
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Rusalka Writer: Aloha!
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Zep Palen: bye bye all
* [2011/03/07 12:01] Vir Linden: bye all!
* [2011/03/07 12:02] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Take care all :)
Category:Mesh