Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-02-16

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on February 16th, 2011
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server Channel
* Improved performance for the following functions in LSL scripts compiled to Mono:
** llList2List
** llDeleteSubList
** llGetListEntryType
** llListInsertList
** llListFindList
** llListReplaceList
** llDeleteSubString
** llStringLength
** llInsertString
** llSubStringIndex
* Bug Fixes
** Entire sim (65,536sq.m.) owned by group, llGetParcelMaxPrims(llGetPos(), TRUE) Returning odd number.
** moving_end() event executes on moving, script-rezzed physical objects
** Telehubs overridden if teleporting a friend/avatar to a region where telehub exists outside of the telehub area
* - "Color change not applied correctly on cylinder when number of faces is change by altering prim properties."
** Fixed 1 simulator crash related to the physics engine
* Made improvements in code for starting and stopping regions
* Internal code improvements with better memory management and more efficient object updates
* Fixed data in CoarseLocationUpdate messages for avatars above 1020m. These are now sent with a value of 255, which was previously sent as 0 in error. This fixes numerous mini-map issues with avatar relative altitude indicators.
* Fixed a script crasher in llList2List.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/12#12.02.06.248938
* Interesting story about release this week...
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This channel has some voice code changes to help with region crossings.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.02.02.248819
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This code is identical to the code on BlueSteel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.02.02.248819
* Magnum RC Channel
* This code is identical to the code on BlueSteel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.02.02.248748
* Pathfinding Alpha Q&A
** Andrew Linden is here
** Falcon might be here
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_in_Second_Life
** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Take-a-Sneak-Peek-at-the-Pathfinding-Experiments-Being-Conducted/ba-p/1386511
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for February 16th, 2012:
* [14:59] Squirrel Wood: Nuts! I demand mint flavoured nuts!
* [14:59] Larre Leborski: Indeed ㋡
* [15:00] MartinRJ Fayray: Hello
* [15:00] Miguael Liamano: Actually none of my mesh avies got synced.
* [15:00] Miguael Liamano: Odd.
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: weird
* [15:00] Miguael Liamano: I was logged in when you synced me though, may have messed.
* [15:00] Squirrel Wood: entertainment while we wait: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tnesLUwkSQ
* [15:00] Ov Dos Hat New!: the Elder Hats V: Spyrim
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: you have to relog
* [15:01] Miguael Liamano: a lot of stuff is missing
* [15:01] Miguael Liamano: I did twice
* [15:01] Fancy Greeter: Lorca Linden has arrived!
* [15:01] Falcon Linden: Hey Lorca
* [15:01] Motor Loon: omg skyrim... what an utter waste of time once you get hooked on that crap... costed me like 3 days of my life °͜°
* [15:01] Falcon Linden: motor: seriously
* [15:01] Larre Leborski: Hi Lorca ㋡
* [15:01] Miguael Liamano: agree, motor
* [15:02] Falcon Linden: and I don't play or like games
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: alright. I am going to get started
* [15:02] Larre Leborski: Hi Falcon ㋡
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: I used to play that, then I...
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: for those who are new here this meeting is in text
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: Well, you know
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: we follow the agenda here
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:02] Motor Loon: ooh soo exciting!
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: if you have stuff you want to talk about add it to the angenda under any other items
* [15:02] MartinRJ Fayray: Oskar: the llDialog stuff was discussed with Kelly at his meeting.
* [15:02] Fancy Greeter: Andrew Linden has arrived!
* [15:02] MartinRJ Fayray: Everything's fine.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I'll get through the weekly updates and give lorca, falcon, and andrew time to talk about pathfinding
* [15:03] Larre Leborski: Hi ANdrew ㋡
* [15:03] Motor Loon: ey Andrewski, welcome to the party
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: again here is the agenda
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:03] Falcon Linden: Oskar: I'm sitting on the sidewalk outside an office building in Fremont, mind if we go first? :)
* [15:03] Motor Loon: repost because Andrew didn't get it ? °͜°
* [15:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh, Andrew's here for once.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: give me 5 minutes and then you can have the rest of the meeting
* [15:04] Andrew Linden: Hello
* [15:04] Falcon Linden: sounds good
* [15:04] Motor Loon: hehe...
* [15:04] Miguael LiamanoMiguael Liamano subbed to the mailing list
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: the RC code got promoted to main channel
* [15:04] Motor Loon: he says 5 mins ... but he really means 45 mins
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: we have two new projects
* [15:04] Fancy Greeter: Lorca Linden has arrived!
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: or 1 new project
* [15:04] Grid Crash Protection Box: Johan Laurasia, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [15:04] Falcon Linden: or 8 new projects (we don't have 8 new projects)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: on BlueSteel and LeTigre is an updated voice code project
* [15:04] Grid Crash Protection Box: Johan Laurasia, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [15:05] Motor Loon: ooh I thought my voice sounded more manly this morning...
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we noticed the simulator sending unnecessary and additional info about voice when region crossing
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we removed it
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so it should make region crossings slightly less taxing
* [15:05] Draconis Neurocam: yay
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: you try it out and tell me
* [15:05] Motor Loon: niiice
* [15:05] Miguael Liamano: \o/
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: then on Magnum we have the threaded region crossing code
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: again
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: now with less ghosting
* [15:05] Motor Loon: anything that helps on crossings is good in my book
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: wedid make a mistake this week
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: and it should be noted here
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we forgot to merge trunk to the new RC's
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: less as in zero, she asked hopefully.
* [15:06] arton Rotaru: :p
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: so... all the code on main channel is NOT in the RC's
* [15:06] Motor Loon: o.O
* [15:06] Miguael Liamano: ou-oh
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: but we can chat more about that later
* [15:06] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny chuckle
* [15:06] Motor Loon: guess that should atleast cost a round of beers eh
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: Let me introduce Lorca
* [15:06] Flip Idlemind: All of it is not, or none of it is?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: Lorca. tell us who you are and what you do
* [15:06] Lorca Linden: hey everyone
* [15:06] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi waves to Lorca.
* [15:06] Miguael Liamano: Hell-O' n.n
* [15:06] Falcon Linden: Lorca: other than drive me crazy :)
* [15:06] Brota Kornfeld: hey
* [15:06] Larre Leborski: Hi Lorca ㋡
* [15:06] SonicAnd Miles: HI :D
* [15:06] Andrew Linden: Whatever was promoted this week, was not also merged into the RC's.
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: Welcome to the nuthouse Lorca
* [15:06] Sigma Avro: Hello, nice to meet you Lorca
* [15:06] Lorca Linden: I'm an associate producer here at the lab, joined about 5 months ago
* [15:06] Flip Idlemind: Okie dokie
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: I'm primarily working on our new pathfinding project
* [15:07] Flip Idlemind: Oh are you the voice from the video
* [15:07] arton Rotaru: newbie ^^
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: lol
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: indeed
* [15:07] Kris Spade: Very nice Lorca!
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: there was a blog post about it jsut recently
* [15:07] Miguael Liamano: Sweeeeet.
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: but basicaly, it's a bunch of really cool new LSL calls
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: and viewer tools
* [15:07] Motor Loon: ooh! ... well, anything that dont have to do with billing is good with me
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: that will let you crate intelligently pathing objects
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: many of them
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: Lorca is here with Andrew and Falcon to talk about how you can be involved in the pathfinding alpha
* [15:07] Lorca Linden: much easier and in a far more performant way than currently possible
* [15:07] Miguael Liamano: Hopefully we can program avatar paths as well, for machinimas?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: does everyone know what pathfinding is?
* [15:08] Kris Spade: Yeah
* [15:08] Kallista Destiny: Pathfinders? Your gong to parachute Avatars into regions with lights to mark the Drop Zones?
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_in_Second_Life
* [15:08] Squirrel Wood: Very nice work so far. As Heavy would put it: "You did well" :)
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: that will give you a good overview
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: this is not for avatar paths as I understand it
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: thanks squirrel!
* [15:08] Sigma Avro: like on mars, robots
* [15:08] Homeless: I'm not 100% sure what it is exactly
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: the test regions are now live!
* [15:08] Falcon Linden: That's correct, Oskar, though that is something we could add in the future
* [15:08] Jonathan Yap: I was just on a test region...and it crashed :)
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: so you can go play around with the LSL functions after this office hours
* [15:08] Falcon Linden: Jonathan: good. More info for us!
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: yeah, pathtest 1 is abit iffy in particular
* [15:08] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi points the finger at Jonathan.
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: also, i just wnated to mention
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: I'm getting more excited
* [15:08] Lorca Linden: that the wiki page from yesterday got some traction
* [15:09] Miguael Liamano: yes, as I understand it too, it is not, but that could be nice to combine with a worn object
* [15:09] Lorca Linden: and a lot of the "known issues" listed there have been fixed in the past couple weeks
* [15:09] Lorca Linden: the current version is more up to date
* [15:09] Lorca Linden: but for those sleuths who picked up on it yesterday, there was some old info on there
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Pathfinding testing information here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_alpha
* [15:09] Motor Loon: sounds super interesting - looking forward to playing with it
* [15:09] Lorca Linden: please excuse any issues, but we really want feedback
* [15:09] Jonathan Yap: Did you merge that wiki with updates or just replace text wholesale? I had fixed 2 small issues in some function descriptions
* [15:09] Falcon Linden: The one major known issue right now is that if you teleport into a pathfinding region, it may crash. We have a hacky fix but are hoping to get enough data for a real fix
* [15:09] Lorca Linden: we've had a ton of fun with the tools internally and can't wait to see what you all build
* [15:10] Squirrel Wood: squirrel army!
* [15:10] Lorca Linden: and you should remove scripted attachments and HUDs
* [15:10] Lorca Linden: before TPing in
* [15:10] Motor Loon: you saying we have to WALK there falcon? °͜°
* [15:10] Sigma Avro: will path finding include teleport of objects ?
* [15:10] Falcon Linden: Lorca: naah, that's not a problem anymore
* [15:10] Falcon Linden: Motor: Only if you don't want to crash :P
* [15:10] Kris Spade: Are the functions outlined anywhere?
* [15:10] Motor Loon: gawd... walking... soo overrated...
* [15:10] Falcon Linden: sigma: does teleportation involve paths? :P
* [15:11] Sigma Avro: no, true, except in disconnected regions
* [15:11] Falcon Linden: Kris: yes, on the wiki linked to from the blog post
* [15:11] Lorca Linden: they are right next to the aditi sandboxes fyi
* [15:11] Falcon Linden: sigma: even then
* [15:11] Sigma Avro: well, ok, was a question only,
* [15:11] Falcon Linden: sigma: I was just answering it :)
* [15:11] Falcon Linden: in a roundabout way
* [15:12] Lorca Linden: we'll be starting up pathfinding office hours for those interested (within the next week or two)
* [15:12] Johan Laurasia: So in a way, pathfinding is alot like llMoveToTarget() on steroids
* [15:12] Sigma Avro: ok, akuna matata
* [15:12] Falcon Linden: Anyhow, pathfinding is awesome. You'll love it. Or maybe you won't, but probably you will.
* [15:12] Falcon Linden: Johan: very high dose steroids, yes
* [15:12] Andrew Linden: This link has info about the new LSL calls: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_in_Second_Life
* [15:12] Motor Loon: mmhmm steroids are tasty
* [15:12] Kris Spade: Ok thanks, got 'em :D
* [15:13] Johan Laurasia: schweet.... I'll be all over it, I have a complex build that uses llMoveToTarget() that I'd love to see what I can do with pathfinding
* [15:13] Nexii Malthus: Will we be able to get the list of vector points of the path so we can code our own movement when we want to? I don't like the idea of using a hardcoded movement system, see this vehicle I'm using for example, I want to do exciting things, not be limited by the API
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: is this based on 'Havok AI'
* [15:13] Falcon Linden: Johan: one thing to be aware of is that pathfinding requires you to convert your linkset to a "character" (via LSL) and characters don't support most physics-related calls
* [15:13] Sigma Avro: waow, this is real change !
* [15:13] Falcon Linden: arton: Yes
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: kk
* [15:14] Jonathan Yap: Lorca, will you speak to the issue about what happens currently in a skyplatform, etc.?
* [15:14] Lorca Linden: well, pathfinding is not volumetric
* [15:14] Johan Laurasia: Ah, yeah, my bot is physical
* [15:14] Falcon Linden: Nexii: not presently, no. The paths are dynamically updated so what was valid when you requested a path may not be valid while using it
* [15:14] Lorca Linden: meaning that you can do birds etc
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: how will it impact region performance?
* [15:14] Lorca Linden: but you have to use either invisble surfaces in the air or invisible
* [15:14] Lorca Linden: columns
* [15:14] Lorca Linden: it should help!
* [15:15] Johan Laurasia: I saw that on the page about converting a link set to a character... what exactly is that doing?
* [15:15] Falcon Linden: Arton: we currently see a single pathfinding character consume roughly 50 microseconds per frame. More depending on what it's doing
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: the pathfinding algorithms are way more performant than existing "methods" of doing movement in lsl
* [15:15] Falcon Linden: Johan: replacing its physics representation completely
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: we've been able to get tons of ants and various critters in a region
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: but be aware
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: that the testing regions are on a debug build
* [15:15] Sigma Avro: like autopilot of avatar ?
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: that means they will be slow
* [15:15] Falcon Linden: sigma: pardon?
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: but we need the data from the debug so we can track down issues for release
* [15:15] Lorca Linden: pain now for a better product later ;)
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: Our upcoming viewer tools will allow you to easily determine character resource consumption
* [15:16] Motor Loon: slow as in? half speed? 1/1000 speed?
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: 1/5th speed
* [15:16] Lorca Linden: 1/10 maybe /15
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: roughly
* [15:16] Motor Loon: k
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: hard to say
* [15:16] Motor Loon: roger
* [15:16] Lorca Linden: signficantly slower
* [15:16] Sigma Avro: well, avatar autopilot is kinda pathfind
* [15:16] Johan Laurasia: my bot is a bot.. so jerky movements and hard turns sort of fit, but will you be able to do more organic style movements with it?
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: under bad load, it can run at half frame rate because it does intense validation every frame
* [15:16] Lorca Linden: pathfinding is not an animation system
* [15:16] Lorca Linden: existing methods will all work with it
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: johan: it is organic in terms of positional motion
* [15:17] Falcon Linden: but it does not animate child prims
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: good point
* [15:17] Johan Laurasia: yeah, I get it, i'm talking movement only
* [15:17] Motor Loon: and rotation right... but for the whole object
* [15:17] Lorca Linden: the movement itself is much more natural looking than existing ways of creating npcs in lsl
* [15:17] Lorca Linden: eg the rock monsters from LR
* [15:17] Falcon Linden: when converting to a character, all child prims are converted to have no physics shape and can be moved freely by lsl
* [15:17] Falcon Linden: motor: rotation is handled, yes
* [15:17] Flip Idlemind: So the rock monsters are using this?
* [15:17] Lorca Linden: nopew
* [15:17] Motor Loon: so they'll act phantom
* [15:17] Motor Loon: ?
* [15:17] Falcon Linden: though they act as if they're pinned in X and Y
* [15:18] Falcon Linden: flip: nope, they use legacy systems
* [15:18] Motor Loon: to avatar collision
* [15:18] Lorca Linden: we wish we had these tools when building LR, would have saved a lot of headaches ;)
* [15:18] Falcon Linden: motor: yes. You can set the size of your character's capsule representation, though
* [15:18] Falcon Linden: so that it encompasses all prims
* [15:18] Motor Loon: ah ok
* [15:18] Falcon Linden: by default the capsule will be roughly the size of the linkset
* [15:18] Johan Laurasia: any youtube videos showing this on action posted yet?
* [15:18] Motor Loon: but they can still detect a collission within that "representation"
* [15:18] Falcon Linden: currently collisions with/between characters are not reported. I'm working on that currently
* [15:18] Lorca Linden: there should be now johan
* [15:18] Motor Loon: ah ok, answers that
* [15:19] Nexii Malthus: Johan: Not youtube, but vimeo: http://vimeo.com/36483387
* [15:19] Lorca Linden: as of about 40 minutes ago
* [15:19] Sigma Avro: volume detect will work ?
* [15:19] Falcon Linden: sigma: eventually, yes
* [15:19] Falcon Linden: (before release)
* [15:19] Andrew Linden: At the moment the center of the character is the center of the root prim. Well be computing a more correct offset soon.
* [15:19] Lorca Linden: vimeo, right, thanks for the link nexii
* [15:20] Johan Laurasia: Andrew: does that go for mesh objects too, because one can set the registration point anywhere with mesh
* [15:20] Motor Loon: any limitations to object size/primcount ?
* [15:20] Miguael Liamano: good question there
* [15:20] Falcon Linden: motor: size, yes, sort of. primcount, no--the physics weight of a character will be some (TBD) fixed value
* [15:20] Falcon Linden: size is a tricky one
* [15:20] Andrew Linden: Yes Johan. That is, we just use the center of the "object" and don't try to reconcile the fact that often the object's center is not the center of the collision shape.
* [15:20] Motor Loon: so, that's a "mabye - we're thinking about it" ? ,-)
* [15:21] Falcon Linden: There will be an optimal height for characters that will get them the best path, but there is no strict limit on the size of the linkset
* [15:21] Johan Laurasia: The fact that you can cross regions sounds great
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: the first person to make autonomous megatrolls to wander mainland gets a signed Falcon photo
* [15:21] Lorca Linden: and i can't stress enough the bonus of the performance improvements
* [15:21] Lorca Linden: on a regular build
* [15:21] Johan Laurasia: my bot gets lost trying to navigate to the <x,y,z> point in the next prim over
* [15:21] Motor Loon: haha
* [15:21] Lorca Linden: it will allow for way more moving characters in a region than you can have today
* [15:21] Motor Loon: nude photo?
* [15:22] Lorca Linden: (though obviously that is much less the case on the debug builds)
* [15:22] Andrew Linden: Pathfinding doesn't necessarily work underwater (Lorca, did you enable underwater pathing in those test regions?)
* [15:22] Miguael LiamanoMiguael Liamano stares at the video and jawdrops
* [15:22] Lorca Linden: no
* [15:22] Falcon Linden: andrew: we probably won't be able to make underwater work well enough for release in time
* [15:22] Lorca Linden: that's a bit buggy and may not make it for release
* [15:22] Ima Mechanique: Motor, nude pic is SECOND prize
* [15:22] Motor Loon: agree's... pathfinding does appear to make your jaws drop at a fairly steady rate
* [15:22] Johan Laurasia: Are the test regions open to us?
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: when will it be released to the main grid?
* [15:23] Motor Loon: I'm going for second then Ima °͜°
* [15:23] Lorca Linden: yup they are johan
* [15:23] Falcon Linden: arton: when it's done
* [15:23] Homeless: I suppose the mainland linden roads will become even more clogged with driverless vehicles....
* [15:23] Lorca Linden: crash gods permitting ;)
* [15:23] Johan Laurasia: lol
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: :p
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: you said in time ^^
* [15:23] Johan Laurasia: I just moved to protected land, and there's alot of those vehicles going by all the time...
* [15:23] Jonathan Yap: Johan, the 4 test regions just opened up
* [15:23] Motor Loon: will pathfinding objects follow the same rules for object entry etc. as a regular physical object?
* [15:23] Sigma Avro: can they go underground ?
* [15:24] Motor Loon: under water?
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: motor: that's complicated. For release 1, we'll probably simply ban them from pathing into no-entry parcels
* [15:24] Motor Loon: float?
* [15:24] Shadowen Silvera: So with the physics weight does that mean they will have a prim count cost depending on the resources they take?
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: No underground, no underwater
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: no, they will travel with half of the prim undeground, I may excpect
* [15:24] Motor Loon: so it could "float" on water
* [15:24] Lorca Linden: you can find the testing regions directly (pathtest1-4 on Aditi) but it's highly reccomended you take a look at the pathfinding wiki for a few minutes before jumping in.
* [15:24] Motor Loon: but no fish
* [15:24] Jonathan Yap: Falcon, what about on a large sky platform?
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: Shadowen: physics weight will be fixed.
* [15:24] Andrew Linden: Pathing objects will probably stop working if they try to enter a full parcel , atm. The don't route around it as an obstacle.
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: Jonathan: yes
* [15:25] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:25] Shadowen Silvera: WIll the ability to quickly rez and create oh say 30 pathfinding characters at a time be affected?
* [15:25] Falcon Linden: no
* [15:25] Shadowen Silvera: s/character/creature/
* [15:25] Jonathan Yap: Shadowen, you will have to catch them later though!
* [15:25] Andrew Linden: Sigma, actually there are some tricks where you can get a pathing object to appear to go partially underground. I'll leave that as an exercise ;-)
* [15:25] Motor Loon: pathfinding on a mesh surface would work as as on ground / prims ?
* [15:26] Sigma Avro: I am for allowing the "underground " walk as an option
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: motor: yes, but you need to make sure your triangles face the right way
* [15:26] Motor Loon: ofcourse
* [15:26] Shadowen Silvera: Do you define the points they avoid or do they automagically avoid objects from a = b
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: automagical
* [15:26] Miguael Liamano: I would go for : make it work on land, and expand beyond after,
* [15:26] Motor Loon: haha... automagical... love it
* [15:26] Nalates Urriah: Pathfinding objects have a Land Impact in the new system. What happens to people prim limits and teir when someone releases millions of 20 prim ants?
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: nal: same as what would happen with a million 20 prim other-things
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: the prim ants won't be rezzable on a full parcel, just like other objects
* [15:27] Shadowen Silvera: will they know the difference between phantom and non pahntom? Physical and non?
* [15:27] Flip Idlemind: Literally millions of ants probably isn't recommended
* [15:27] Fancy Greeter: Steven Linden has arrived!
* [15:27] Andrew Linden: the pathing ants will behave similar to existing objects that move about the world
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: shadowen: yes and yes
* [15:27] Shadowen Silvera: ie can you have a pathfinding creature run into a physical item and push it rather than avoid it?
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: no
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: actually
* [15:27] Motor Loon: ants are cute
* [15:27] Midice Holfe: sorry if this has been answered. are these functions available now on Beta .? and will it compliment llKFM .?
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: yes, with some cleverness, shadowen
* [15:27] Lorca Linden: we've had aaround 200 pathfinding characters moving on a we are also providing tools for estate managers (and anyone who owns characters) to see all pathfinding enabled characters on a region and delete / edit them
* [15:27] Nalates Urriah: It would seem to vbe a way to fill up prim counts and annoy people...
* [15:27] Squirrel Wood: More Lindens! Are you trying to outnumber us? ;)
* [15:27] Homeless: If they're army ants they should be able to destroy everything on the parcel to make room...
* [15:28] Andrew Linden: llKFM = ?
* [15:28] Jonathan Yap: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_in_Second_Life
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: medice: yes on aditi, no on llfm
* [15:28] Motor Loon: sounds good Lorca... glad you have been thinking about EMs too °͜°
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: nal: return will be available as usual
* [15:28] Midice Holfe: ll key frame motion..
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: nal: also, much of the info on your blog is out of data :)
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: err, out of date
* [15:29] Flip Idlemind: I like when many Lindens are around
* [15:29] Motor Loon: Remember guy... for every pathfinding object is a Linden behind a screen at the labs controlling it... only way it was possible... so don't rez too many
* [15:29] Sigma Avro: lol
* [15:29] Larre Leborski: Indeed ㋡
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: motor: wow, how'd you know?!
* [15:29] Johan Laurasia: so how smooth are region crossings for these pathfinding puppies?
* [15:29] Nalates Urriah: Falcon, wouldn't return get a bit tedious? I'm curious if there will be a cap on how many I can create? I hate ants...
* [15:29] Motor Loon: I have my sources
* [15:29] Miguael Liamano: I like too, flip. I'm information-hungry, so. :)
* [15:29] Shadowen Silvera: from what I saw on the wiki you can define how the movement looks. does this mean you can do something like catmull-rom type movement from one point to another?
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Johan: same as dynamic objects
* [15:29] Lorca Linden: that was my fallback plan for the first exec demo for the tools ;)
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: Nalates: heh, we'll have a single panel where you can select any number of them and return at once
* [15:30] Sigma Avro: can they turn around obstacle as no entry property ?
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: shadowen: no, it uses a path smoothing algorithm and kinematic constraints
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: regions are aware of their neighbors' nav meshes, so crossing should be fairly intelligent
* [15:31] Jonathan Yap: I can see it now, 1 ant following the next...
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: shadowen: path smoothing == string pulling
* [15:31] Nalates Urriah: Thx Falcom
* [15:31] Lorca Linden: the viewer tools are very helpful (both to debug and to see how characters will actually path) they will be available soon
* [15:31] Shadowen Silvera: ok, thanks
* [15:31] Nalates Urriah: falcon^
* [15:31] Lorca Linden: but not today
* [15:31] Andrew Linden: No not yet Sigma. No-entry parcels are not handled right.
* [15:31] Sigma Avro: ok
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: Nal: re-ask
* [15:31] Johan Laurasia: so you define the movment from a - z.. rather than like damping with llMoveToTargetI()?
* [15:31] Motor Loon: Dunno about ya'all... but I'm soo looking forward to releasing a pathfinding mouse in my wifes office and watching her run around screaming with the mouse in pursuit .
* [15:32] arton Rotaru: :p
* [15:32] Falcon Linden: johan: the system is parameterizable when you define your character (turn speed, etc.), but otherwise we handle it
* [15:32] Sigma Avro: heh
* [15:32] Johan Laurasia: ah, ok, got it
* [15:32] Nalates Urriah: IS it possible to back and object as it turns?
* [15:32] arton Rotaru: see, they handle it for us buy hand^^
* [15:32] Nalates Urriah: bank an object^
* [15:32] Motor LoonMotor Loon looks for the "take bit bite of butt using large teeth" parameter
* [15:32] Miguael Liamano: this will greatly contribute at making environment and Art sims much more alive. critters, tumbleweed, wtc
* [15:32] Johan Laurasia: taking all the programming out of programming movment...
* [15:32] Midice Holfe: pfft mouse...... I am thinking Godzilla....* grins*
* [15:32] Johan Laurasia: :)
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: nal: only via existing script calls. Banking isn't supported for the physics itself
* [15:33] Shadowen Silvera: how much of a hit will it be if you change the target often? is it calculating all paths before hand or dynamically?
* [15:33] Lorca Linden: the scripts really are pretty simple by design (at least the basic LSL calls are)
* [15:33] Lorca Linden: you can combine / use them in complex ways
* [15:33] Jonathan Yap: I like the fact you left room in those scripts for expansion
* [15:33] Motor Loon: My wife eats Godzillas for breakfirst Midice... but mice... thats another story °͜°
* [15:33] Lorca Linden: but we wanted the basic pathfinding calls to be straightforward and handle the pathinng logic server side
* [15:33] Andrew Linden: at the moment the pathfinding objects will only move *forward*, so if they backtrack they'll try to turn around to do it rather than back up
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: Shadowen: there's a slightly hit when you initially change targets (fairly small) and then every X frames afterward
* [15:33] Johan Laurasia: can one link (i.e.) sit your avatar to a character-ized object?
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: yes, via llSitTarget
* [15:34] Lorca Linden: yes
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: yep you can have pathfinding vehicles
* [15:34] Miguael Liamano: sweeet
* [15:34] Lorca Linden: and mounts
* [15:34] Lorca Linden: ;)
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: and yes, all path calls and events are extensible for future development
* [15:34] Motor Loon: can you make pathfinding objects stop and take a break once in a while before continuing ?
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: yes, you can stop them at any time
* [15:35] Miguael Liamano: even greater
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: to get them to move again, simply issue another pathfinding call
* [15:35] Lorca Linden: or make them jump ;)
* [15:35] Motor Loon: cool... this shit has potential I think
* [15:35] Miguael Liamano: ^
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: I'd like to think so ;)
* [15:35] Shadowen Silvera: I am guessing it's not like using the physics engine where they lose energy?
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: they do use the physics engine, but they do not use any energy-related rules
* [15:35] Johan Laurasia: right, not physical at all Shadowen
* [15:35] Johan Laurasia: oh...
* [15:36] Motor Loon: like the energizer bunnie... they just goes and goes and goes... and...
* [15:36] Falcon Linden: the energy stuff was all our code, not in the physics engine
* [15:36] Midice Holfe: this is pretty exciting news.... cant wait to play with..
* [15:36] Sigma Avro: Path finding system events ? whish one are they ? Update of the patfinding functions ?
* [15:36] Miguael Liamano: they aren't physic. more like a minirail train.
* [15:36] Ima Mechanique: Motor, more like zombies I think ;-)
* [15:36] Johan Laurasia: so a rat that finds it's way though a maze should be possible?
* [15:36] Shadowen Silvera: by the I meant SL's
* [15:36] Falcon Linden: sigma: path_update event
* [15:36] Falcon Linden: johan: absolutely
* [15:36] Lorca Linden: also : no need to worry about "script energy" with pathfinding, objects can go up inclines follow across region boundries etc
* [15:36] Sigma Avro: how often they occur ?
* [15:36] Johan Laurasia: schweet
* [15:36] Sigma Avro: Falcon ?
* [15:36] Falcon Linden: sigma: when something notable happens
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: arrival, failure, etc
* [15:37] Sigma Avro: Ok, to tets
* [15:37] Sigma Avro: I sippose
* [15:37] Sigma Avro: *supose
* [15:37] Motor Loon: so... "flee, persue, patrol, wander and go to.." any more planned?
* [15:37] Johan Laurasia: what if an object doesn't have a way to get there.. i.e. it's inside a builiding with no doors or windows
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: evade is in there, motor
* [15:37] Miguael Liamano: circle around?
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: johan: you'll get a path_update message indicating the failure mode
* [15:37] Shadowen Silvera: what sort of pathfinding algorithm is being used? Is it a*? basic astar isnt very good at 3 dimensions but there is a version that is
* [15:38] Andrew Linden: I don't think the characters can strafe a the moment. They'll always try to walk *forward*.
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: A* but it is operating on a 3-D navmesh
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: andrew: correct
* [15:38] Motor Loon: gawd... did anyone already create a giant pacman game with you're the cheese running thru the maze?
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: it is not a volumetric system, though., It supports bridges/tunnels, but not arbitrary flight
* [15:38] Miguael Liamano: Is there a "Circle around" one as well ?
* [15:38] Lorca Linden: we looked into volumetric pathfinding shadowen, 3d navmesh was just not in scope. Maybe at a future date if there is enough demand (it would be possible, but a lot of work)
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: motor: the idea has occurred to us
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: lorca: actually, it would be modest work but with many limitations.
* [15:39] Falcon Linden: same with wall/ceiling navigation
* [15:39] Shadowen Silvera: I'll have to look up 3d navmesh :)
* [15:40] arton Rotaru: look up Havok AI
* [15:40] Miguael Liamano: why do I hear so many typing and so few messages?
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: shadowen: just a normal navmesh but not projected to 2D so it still supports tunnels/bridges
* [15:40] Miguael Liamano: lol
* [15:40] Motor Loon: so how does it work now at this point - can you make it "run" down a corridor avoiding the walls but "seeing" the exit down the end of the corridor?
* [15:40] Lorca Linden: <---- not a programmer ;)
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: tarnix: no circle around, but you can use llPatrolPoints to achieve that
* [15:40] Miguael Liamano: ok
* [15:40] Miguael Liamano: thanks :)
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: motor: just llNavigateTo your destination.
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: if there's a path, it will take it
* [15:40] Fancy Greeter: PLDude5 Tester has arrived!
* [15:41] Motor Loon: awe-some-ness
* [15:41] Miguael Liamano: PLDude5.. *snorts*
* [15:41] Johan Laurasia: detection wise, is it still treated as an object, avatar, or new "character" definition?
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: johan: I honestly don't know. I think object.
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: for backwards-compatibility
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: probably active object..
* [15:42] Sigma Avro: Are there contiguous regions to test sim crossing ?
* [15:42] Johan Laurasia: heh, see what works on it.
* [15:42] Motor Loon: oh they show up on script radars as a scripted object?
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: however, we will probably support llGetObjectDetails reporting a character type
* [15:42] Sigma Avro: on the beta grid I mean
* [15:42] Miguael Liamano: well, it is scripted, so i would say scripted object
* [15:42] Maestro Linden: the pathtest regions are in a 2x2 arrangement, so yes
* [15:42] Sigma Avro: nice, tks
* [15:42] Lorca Linden: this is mentioned in the wiki notes, but FYI you need the viewer tools to regenerate a nav-mesh
* [15:42] Lorca Linden: that means that anything you rez will be seen as an obstacle
* [15:42] Lorca Linden: pathfinding objects can dynamically recognize obstacles that get in their way
* [15:43] Lorca Linden: but to know they can path on a surface, the nav-mesh for that region needs to be updated after that object is rezzed
* [15:43] Sigma Avro: so crash with fast rezing in from of pathfinder, lol
* [15:43] Shadowen Silvera: Is there an event for when your object no longer has a valid path? Ie if you dropped four walls around it.
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: shadowen: yes
* [15:43] Shadowen Silvera: nice
* [15:43] Miguael Liamano: neat
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: we try :)
* [15:44] Sigma Avro: how fast is the path computed btw ?
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: sigma: 50us
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: roughly
* [15:44] Sigma Avro: waow !
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: depends on a lot
* [15:44] Miguael Liamano: still fast
* [15:44] Jonathan Yap: Go to those test regions and look at things whizzing around
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: Does that mean microseconds (I think it does, I just wanna make sure Im not grossly misinformed)
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: yep. we dynamically throttle updates for performance. Most slowdown from many characters is actually due to their physics
* [15:44] Johan Laurasia: Heading there after I the meeting...
* [15:44] Miguael Liamano: yes, flip
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: flip: yes
* [15:44] Nexii Malthus: microseconds, yeah
* [15:44] Johan Laurasia: oh, and stripping down to my skivies
* [15:44] Miguael Liamano: µs, in fact
* [15:44] Lorca Linden: there is a call to get the closest nav-point, so you can also detect in script if something is off the nav mesh, which is handy for creating fallback cases if something gets stuck
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: indeed
* [15:45] Motor Loon: so each pathfinding object has its own "nav mesh" ?
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: and a flag for llNavigateTo that just try to go directly without a path (for recovery)
* [15:45] Jonathan Yap: I think you Lindens had a lot of fun developing this
* [15:45] Motor Loon: serverside
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: motor: one for the whole region
* [15:45] Lorca Linden: no just one nav mesh per region
* [15:45] Nexii Malthus: No motor, I doubt that, too expensive to keep one per char
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: well, there are 4 character types available...
* [15:45] Motor Loon: ok one per region. got it
* [15:45] Lorca Linden: with the viewer tools you will be able to have 4 different character types
* [15:45] Miguael Liamano: Oh, hi maestro
* [15:46] Lorca Linden: and set pathing speeds per character type
* [15:46] Shadowen Silvera: does it only path around objects or will it path up ramps? If you have a ramp with a 90 degree drop on other side will it path up ramp and then down the edge or will it drop? What is the threshold for knowing if it goes around or over an object?
* [15:46] Jonathan Yap: Do you have a rough idea when those viewer tools will be out?
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: maestro: 12 if you include traversal and type
* [15:46] Motor Loon: I think us residents will had a lot of fun playing with this ,-)
* [15:46] Lorca Linden: so you can have cars that go very fast on raods but very slowly on grass for example
* [15:46] Lorca Linden: but you will need the viewer tools
* [15:46] Chieron Tenk: who can edit the nav mesh? the video talked about estate managers there..
* [15:46] Nexii Malthus: Shadowen, I think it travels along connected nav meshes only, no smart jumping stuff
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: shadowen: it won't take a path that results in a fall, but it will be able to go up ramps if they're properly marked and included in the navmesh (requires viewer tools)
* [15:47] Andrew Linden: At the moment it requires an Estate Manager or higher to kick off a new navmesh generation.
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: chieron: anyone with build rights on the region, eventually
* [15:47] Miguael Liamano: ooooohh that's really great, Lorca
* [15:47] Andrew Linden: Eventually it will just happen automatically shortly after a relevant change.
* [15:47] Ima Mechanique: so nav-meshes on mainland will be a problem?
* [15:47] Miguael Liamano: Is the viewer tools code pushed somewhere yet?
* [15:47] Nexii Malthus: That's a good question, adding pathfinding "hints" to the nav mesh would be really cool, especially for more complex game setups with smarter AI
* [15:47] Miguael Liamano: or still WIP?
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: ima: they'll require some intervention to get up and running (terrain will work by default)
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: ima: but it will be possible
* [15:48] Lorca Linden: tarnix not yet, we are working on getting out a project viewer asap
* [15:48] Lorca Linden: within a month
* [15:48] Jonathan Yap: Will you be converting more regions in Aditi to the path server code? I imagine the 4 there will fill up pretty quickly
* [15:48] Miguael Liamano: Ok.
* [15:48] Lorca Linden: that includes the pathfinding tools
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: jonathan: yes
* [15:48] Motor Loon: what about the first initial navmesh...? it one had never been on a sim, it will not exists and no pathfinding object will work?
* [15:48] Lorca Linden: terrain
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: initially it will work on the terrain only
* [15:48] Lorca Linden: will be autoamtically included in a navmesh
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: you'll need to mark other objects as pathable
* [15:48] Motor Loon: aah
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: you will not need mod rights to do that
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: ownership /or/ mod rights will suffice
* [15:49] Lorca Linden: anything that you build which is not explicitly marked as pathable will be considered an obstacle by a pathfinding enabled character
* [15:49] Motor Loon: roger
* [15:49] Squirrel Wood: so essentially pathability is an object property?
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: yes
* [15:49] Shadowen Silvera: when you have it automagically updating the navmesh are you creating smaller superimposed meshes on the overall region/terrain mesh or is it updating the entire mesh? (just curious)
* [15:49] Ima Mechanique: hehe I don't envy the person that has to convert all linden roads to be pathable
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: shadowen: entire mesh
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: ima: actually, the tools should make that relatively easy on a per-region basis
* [15:49] Miguael Liamano: "pathable" means "something that the pathfinding object will not consider as an obstacle and continue going on/through?"
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: you can select a whole group of objects to update
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: tarnix: correct
* [15:50] Miguael LiamanoMiguael Liamano nods
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: so unless all the road prims are named "Object" along with a bunch of other content in the region, it should be pretty easy to change them in bulk
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: right
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: in other words: don't name your objects "Object" :)
* [15:50] Ima Mechanique: Falcon, maybe, but there are a lot of sims that will need updating by moles or department of works lindens ;-)
* [15:50] Johan Laurasia: can you re-define a destination while it's on it's way to one?
* [15:50] Miguael Liamano: using "Object" is doomable..
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: ima: yes, that's true
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: yes pls , make LL roads pathable
* [15:51] Flip Idlemind: Wait so this means, by default, all objects are obstacles or all objects are not obstacles?
* [15:51] Johan Laurasia: set a new one, mid way thru?
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: johan: yes
* [15:51] Lorca Linden: it will be a gradual process
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: flip: by default, all are obstacles
* [15:51] Lorca Linden: we will focus on high traffic areas first
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: i though it was the key involved in these operations of removal
* [15:51] Shadowen Silvera: I have several games in mind that I have wanted to create ever since I first came to SL. I hope that this will allow it. A lot of those games will involve a lot of fast updating (adding obstacles) and a lot of creation of "creatures"
* [15:51] Lorca Linden: but the tools greatly speed up marking things as pathable, as Falcon mentioned
* [15:51] Johan Laurasia: cool, because my bot follows waypoints, and will stray from it's patrol to move to greet someone
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: shadowen: should work
* [15:51] Miguael Liamano: I wonder... how about giving the default rezzed objects the first three chunks of their uuid as default name?
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: johan: easy. llPatrolPoints, then when you detect someone, llNavigateTo, and then back to llPatrolPoints
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: tarnix: not much more helpful than "Object" :)
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: just unique-ish
* [15:52] Nexii Malthus: Shadowen: Sounds like tower defense ? :) http://youtu.be/Lz6gTxH0ybs
* [15:52] Ov Dos Hat New!: t Foun
* [15:52] Sigma Avro: is this region here limited to 40 people Oskar ?
* [15:52] Motor Loon: so, releasing a PFO in a place without access to any navmesh paths will do what? (as in no path possible from its rezzed position, and perhaps its not even rezzed ON a path-able place)
* [15:52] Johan Laurasia: oh, cool, you made a function I made 3 years ago...lol
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: actually, UUIDs have some parts that aren't even well distributed
* [15:52] Shadowen Silvera: I've tried my own astar and it wasn't very useful :) I am very excited to have it serverside. it's about time.
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: motor: it will give you a path_update message that it's off the navmesh
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: johan: yes, but mine works :)
* [15:53] Motor Loon: is that an error code?
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: yes
* [15:53] Johan Laurasia: heh, so does mine... 3 years ago!
* [15:53] Andrew Linden: The avatar limit in this region is 80
* [15:53] Johan Laurasia: lol
* [15:53] Motor Loon: in the script or "in public" ?
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: in the script
* [15:53] Motor Loon: ok
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: path_update event
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: not an error
* [15:53] Motor Loon: but the object will just "freeze" in place then
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: yes. you can then use llNavigateTo with FORCE_DIRECT_PATH and llGetClosestNavPoint to recover
* [15:54] Miguael Liamano: nice
* [15:54] Lorca Linden: we designed the scripts so that you can make fallbacks if your objects get off a nav-mesh
* [15:54] Jonathan Yap: or Motor, you can set its position to some better place
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: or llSetRegionPos
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: or just llSetRegionPos() to llGetClosestNavPoint , if you're really stuck
* [15:54] Motor Loon: excellent... hehe... you guys thought this thru eh
* [15:54] Miguael Liamano: yeah, i really like the depth and fallback of this thing
* [15:54] Lorca Linden: we tried to, in any case ;)
* [15:54] Motor Loon: but I hear "no underwater pathfinding"... will that be possible... for swimming seacreatures and such?
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: not at present, motor
* [15:55] Motor Loon: down the road?
* [15:55] Homeless: yeah the oceans need fish
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: possible if strongly desired
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: down the river
* [15:55] Draconis Neurocam: is the viewer you are going to release to edit the nav meshes going to have syntax highlighting for all of the functions related to pathfinding?
* [15:55] Sigma Avro: Not to be stucked half penetrated into a no entry parcel
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: one issue is that underwater areas tend to have very complex terrain that can slow things down
* [15:55] Motor Loon: I bet it would be quite strongly desired °͜°
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: draconis: hopefully :P
* [15:55] Miguael Liamano: I would consider this a must, draconis
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: we've got 5 minutes left so we should probably start winding this down
* [15:55] Motor Loon: sharks, whales, fish, etc...
* [15:55] Andrew Linden: Good point Draconis. I'll try to make sure the syntax highlighting gets in there
* [15:56] Midice Holfe: I am working on Something at moment that I can apply this too.. when is it scheduled for release on the main grid.?
* [15:56] Lorca Linden: we have it working in test areas motor, but it's pretty buggy at the moment. Certainly no promises on that one
* [15:56] Sigma Avro: Is the "detailed terain" implemented in the computation ?
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: volumetric pathfinding for fish is actually much more doable than volumetric pathfinding in general
* [15:56] Johan Laurasia: wow, this hr went fast...
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: (they never need to land)
* [15:56] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, while you are at it bring the viewer fully up to speed for all new ll functions
* [15:56] Miguael Liamano: Also, some existing functions aren't highlighted yet..
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: Incoming long question:
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: So I don't know if any of the correct people to ask this question to are here, but on Monday at Kelly's meeting the magic-sauce LR functions were brought up and a beta testing program for it was mentioned. And I was wondering if anyone knows how one should go about formally expressing interest in participating
* [15:56] Kallista Destiny: do the sharks get little briefcases?
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: sigma: detailed terrain?
* [15:56] Andrew Linden: Yes Jonathan, I was just thinking that.
* [15:56] Shadowen Silvera: I made a submarine once.. it looked nice and I put it in the water and it filled up with water so fast I didn't even see it flow in the cracks and holes I must have forgotten to plug.
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: once I know then you'll know Flip
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: Coolio
* [15:56] Draconis Neurocam: andrew i would love you if you did that for all of them
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: Falcon: sigma means the accurate_terrain sim debug console setting
* [15:56] Draconis Neurocam: not that i already don't
* [15:57] Sigma Avro: well, it is viewer side, yes , but wander if terain computation for path find is this detailed one or the rough one
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: I had one thing I wanted to chat about in our last few minutes
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: sigma: that is going away entirely
* [15:57] Nalates Urriah: Flip for the LR stuff contact Charlar and let him know...
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: all terrain will be replaced witha physics mesh
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: In the forums this week and last there have been a large number of complaints about LeTigre and Magnum
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: and the inability to rez and lag
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: which will no doubt affect some collisions, but that's a necessary cost
* [15:57] Miguael Liamano: what is the LR thing?
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: My rear is starting to hurt on this sidewalk, so I'm gonna take off
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: however... since we accidentally forgot to merge main channel into the RC's everyone who is complaining of these issues this week ....
* [15:57] Nalates Urriah: Linden realms
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: can't happen
* [15:58] Miguael Liamano: OOh.
* [15:58] Miguael Liamano: k
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: A set of really cool functions currently only used in Linden Realms
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: Thanks everyone. And as Lorca said, more info will be coming on a pathfinding user group
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: Thanks Falcon
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: a Falcon PUG
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: tc Falcon
* [15:58] Miguael Liamano: Thank you Falcon for being here :)
* [15:58] Lorca Linden: details on that will be posted on the pathfinding wiki page
* [15:58] SonicAnd Miles: c-ya :)
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: ciao!
* [15:58] Chieron Tenk: byes
* [15:58] Sigma Avro: bye bye, tks Falcon
* [15:59] Midice Holfe: The Linden Et .Al fo rthis info it's awesome ...
* [15:59] Larre Leborski: TC Falcon ㋡
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: allow me to reiterate my point
* [15:59] Andrew Linden: Oskar, do you publish the transcripts of your User Group?
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:59] Shadowen Silvera: Thank you Falcon.
* [15:59] Motor Loon: Great work Lindens... great work!
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: I do
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: scroll down andrew
* [15:59] Midice Holfe: err the = Thanks.
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: the links are all there
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: and this will be as well
* [15:59] Lorca Linden: thanks for your interst all, and please file bugs as you find them in JIRA
* [15:59] Andrew Linden: ok cool
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: in a few minutes I hope
* [15:59] Lorca Linden: that will help us make this as stable as possible prior to release
* [15:59] MartinRJ Fayray: goodbye everyone
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: so like I was saying about the lag and rezzing issues on LeTigre and Magnum
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: it's not the server
* [16:00] Miguael Liamano: Viewer?
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: probably not
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: I'll comment in the forums
* [16:00] Jonathan Yap: yesterday afternoon was generally bad everywhere; I think some datacenter was having issues
* [16:00] Motor Loon: Bluesteel is not affected at all right?
* [16:00] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. I seem to not have any problems with LeTigre.
* [16:00] Ima Mechanique: /
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: for everyone who doesn't know I discuss server issues here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/bd-p/SecondLifeServer
* [16:01] Flip Idlemind: I spend almost all my time on either main channel or Bluesteel, so I haven't noticed this
* [16:01] Ima Mechanique: how complete are the function definitions?
* [16:01] Miguael Liamano: I noticed considerably slow rezzign time on v3-based viewers where it was nearly instant on v1, same sim same day same hour
* [16:01] Miguael Liamano: creating a cube can sometime take up to... 5 seconds
* [16:01] Kallista Destiny: thank for a VERY interesting meeting.
* [16:01] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi hasn't experienced that.
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: so please all check out pathfinding
* [16:02] Miguael Liamano: and indeed, that was a very interesting meeting
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: find a ton of issues
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: make Falcon do some work fixing them
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: spread the word about the project
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: and Vincent missed Falcon^^
* [16:02] Sigma Avro: thanks Oskar, Lorca, Andrew and Maestro for the meeting
* [16:02] SonicAnd Miles: lol
* [16:02] Andrew Linden: Cheers.
* [16:02] Sigma Avro: (and left Falcon)
* [16:02] Larre Leborski: ㋡
* [16:02] Lorca Linden: thank all of you! Can't wait to see the crazy stuff you make ;)
* [16:02] Johan Laurasia: Thanks as ususal guys
* [16:03] Brota Kornfeld: Awesome, off to play..
* [16:03] SonicAnd Miles: yeah, thanks for the info everyone, this project sounds amazing! :D
* [16:03] Lorca LindenLorca Linden waves at everyone around him
* [16:03] arton Rotaru: I need more than 2 hands to play this game in the future :p
* [16:03] Larre Leborski: Yea it does.. really interesting ㋡
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: Alright, thanks for coming, everybody!
* [16:04] Shadowen Silvera: Thank you Lindens.
* [16:04] Chieron Tenk: really interesting meeting, now to squash some ants
* [16:04] Sera Lok: thanks have a great day lindens!
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: make sure you grab a catface on your way out
* [16:04] Midice Holfe: Thankyou ...... have fun everyone...
* [16:04] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived!
* [16:04] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. Thank you all Lindens for what you do in here ㋡
* [16:04] Ima Mechanique: bye all
* [16:05] Kadah Coba: Hello there
* [16:05] Midice Holfe: has anyone a link too the Pathfind user group..? please
* [16:05] Sera Lok: mrerr!
* [16:05] Flip Idlemind: secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/PathTest1/131/101/23
* [16:05] Larre Leborski: Now.. time for me to go play as well.. in AGNI ㋡
* [16:05] Oskar Linden: there is no pathfinder usergroup yet
* [16:05] Midice Holfe: ah okies..