Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.02.11

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2011.02.08	Next 2011.02.15
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Arawn Spitteler 	Ash Qin
Ashiri Sands 	Bronson Blackadder 	Calcite Serendipity
Cummere Mayo 	DogWomble Dollinger	Draconis Neurocam
Flyfoxington McMahn	Jonathan Yap 	Kadah Coba
Kelly Linden 	Latif Khalifa 	Lestat Demain
Liisa Runo 	Maggie Darwin 	Pauline Darkfury
Psi Merlin 	RedMokum Bravin 	Simon Linden
Siobhan McCallen 	Talarus Luan 	TankMaster Teichmann
Tiggs Linden 	Twisted Laws 	Zidonuke Ghost
== Transcript ==
[16:01] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:02] TankMaster Teichmann: welcomer simon
[16:02] Lestat Demain: u sure we`re not here to throw things?
[16:02] Siobhan McCallen: hey simon, Andrew
[16:02] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:02] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:02] Andrew Linden: Hello.
[16:02] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:02] Simon Linden: Hello everyone :)
[16:02] Ash Qin: Greetings.
[16:02] Lestat Demain: hiya
[16:02] Latif Khalifa: Oh Tiggs and Kely along for the ride :)
[16:02] DogWomble Dollinger: greetings andrew
[16:03] Flyfoxington McMahn: Hiya!
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Cool. Looks like a fair crowd today.
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Ok so lets start with news...
[16:03] DogWomble Dollinger: what did you break andrew? :P
[16:03] Psi Merlin: Hi Andrew,Simon, Kelly and Tiggs
[16:03] Andrew Linden: I've been fixing stuff this week.
[16:04] Maggie Darwin: That's news? Oh....that's news!
[16:04] Andrew Linden: My latest project just passed QA, on the ER-380 channel on aditi.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: It is a cleanup pass on how we delete objects.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: I also cleaned up a bunch of unrelated cruft while I was at it.
[16:05] Draconis Neurocam: sounds wonderful
[16:05] Latif Khalifa: to avoid "ghosting" of objects on delete?
[16:05] Ash Qin: Avoiding resource strain of auto return?
[16:05] Latif Khalifa: when they don't get removed from physics engine but do get fremoved from the sim?
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Maestro Linden did the testing and it seems that there may be some measurable performance gains, although it isn't quite clear where the gains are.
[16:05] Draconis Neurocam: gains anywhere are welcome.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: He had a pile of rezzers and was measuring the threaded-rez performance and noticed a slight improvement (17 objects per second instead of 14)
[16:06] TankMaster Teichmann: ^
[16:06] Andrew Linden: But I don't expect improvements on rez, so it was probably from all the objects that were deleting at the same time.
[16:06] DogWomble Dollinger: a perormance gain of ~20% is not to be sneezed at
[16:06] Maggie Darwin: So griefing cubes will work better? :-)
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Anyway, it was nice to hear about those numbers.
[16:06] Lestat Demain: haha
[16:07] Andrew Linden: Er yeah. Griefers should notice that their objects create/delete faster.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: Which will help them tickle the Grey Goo Fence (GGF) when they were not before.
[16:07] Siobhan McCallen: now only if we can notice griefers delete faster
[16:07] Maggie Darwin: Tickle my GGF spot.
[16:07] Pauline Darkfury: presumably harder for the griefer objects to cripple the sim before the grey goo fence kicks in?
[16:07] Andrew Linden: Right.
[16:07] Pauline Darkfury: cool
[16:07] DogWomble Dollinger: did i just see a legitimate reason to tell a griefer to GGF?
[16:08] Cummere Mayo: sorry im late... the new lapha viewer for v-d has decided its allergic to the gird
[16:08] Andrew Linden: That project will go into the RC queue, but probably won't get an RC slot next week.
[16:08] Cummere Mayo: *grid
[16:08] Latif Khalifa: Hopefully this reduces sim freezes when people are leaving sim with 200 attached prims.
[16:08] Ash Qin: Latif, I thought that issue was from scripts.
[16:09] Latif Khalifa: Ash, pure object derez also causes it.
[16:09] Latif Khalifa: Scripts make it worse.
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Other than that I've just been tracking down some misc flaws that coverity has found in our codebase.
[16:09] Pauline Darkfury: We're told the big freeze is mostly down to Mono, but there's other parts to it and reducing them can't hurt
[16:09] Ash Qin hadn't noticed the issue with objects honestly, but will take your word of it.
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Coverity is some 3rd party code analysis tool.
[16:10] Andrew Linden: BTW, threaded-rez is re-enabled on the Magnum grid this week.
[16:10] Pauline Darkfury: With LessAssetBreaking? ;)
[16:10] Andrew Linden: So some of you may notice some performance improvements there.
[16:10] Maggie Darwin: That includes avatars?
[16:11] Andrew Linden: I think I mentioned last meeting (Tues) that Magnum was crashing more often than the other RC channels.
[16:11] Latif Khalifa: I have noticed improvements with a bit more order of prims rezzed after teleport. The interest list work. Nothing spectacular, but an improvement, nontheless.
[16:11] Andrew Linden: Turns out that was not true... it was just statistical fluctuations.
[16:11] Cummere Mayo: find a reason yet andrew?
[16:12] Andrew Linden: That's all the news I have. Simon, Kelly, and Tiggs, if you have news go ahead.
[16:12] Simon Linden: That's nice to hear, Latif.
[16:12] Simon Linden: Not much news from me ... I've been working on low-level messaging code, making it a bit faster
[16:13] Simon Linden: It may work its way into an RC channel in 2 weeks or so
[16:13] DogWomble Dollinger: so hopefully that means less chat lag?
[16:13] Kelly Linden: I don't quite have all the Ts crossed or Is dotted for my Scripting user group, but I will continue to meet 9am mondays anyway.
[16:13] Andrew Linden was fixing formatting and initialization problems in message.cpp today. Simon, we'll probably conflict when we merge our work.
[16:13] Pauline Darkfury: network messages, Dog, not chat messages
[16:13] DogWomble Dollinger: aaah ok
[16:13] Cummere Mayo: differant kind of messeging
[16:13] Kelly Linden: And I'm just waiting on Maestro to OK the mono2 upgrade branches to start pushing em to RCs.
[16:13] Kelly Linden: so pester him. ;)
[16:13] Latif Khalifa: \o/
[16:14] Simon Linden: Right, it's the overhead when putting together data about updates, animations, etc
[16:14] Maggie Darwin: (poo, on V2.5 the first time you go to display somone's profile it displays your own.)
[16:14] Bronson Blackadder: lol
[16:14] Simon Linden: I noticed that too, Maggie -- annoying
[16:14] Cummere Mayo: every time maggie
[16:14] Bronson Blackadder: yes it does
[16:14] Tiggs Linden: maggie, that's a feature for the self-absorbed
[16:14] Cummere Mayo: and no jiras on it yet...
[16:14] Latif Khalifa: lol tiggs
[16:14] Cummere Mayo: so feel free to make one and link it to web-3535
[16:14] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3535
[#WEB-3535] 2011 Web profiles bug/ feature request meta-issue
[16:14] Simon Linden gazes at his profile
[16:14] Talarus Luan: Someone JIRA it and I will vote on it. :P
[16:15] Latif Khalifa: and vote quick!
[16:15] Cummere Mayo: dont voe watch it...
[16:15] Cummere Mayo: votes is too undemocratic!
[16:15] Maggie Darwin: So, at least two Lindens know about it but they're waiting for a customer to report it.
[16:15] Lestat Demain: lol wots this voting crap if its a problem fix it :P
[16:15] Gamxor: Simon on profiles can we turn webprofiles off?
[16:15] Andrew Linden: Ok the table is open. If you have a topic go ahead and raise it.
[16:15] Calcite Serendipity: Don't bother to vote--votes are doing away in about 4 weeks
[16:16] Simon Linden: Aw Maggie, don't make us use the "we work on the server excuse" again
[16:16] DogWomble Dollinger: andrew was going to ask ... i heard about havok 2010.2 being implemented on the grid
[16:16] Maggie Darwin: How are those server excuses coming?
[16:16] DogWomble Dollinger: has that been finished yet or are we still on havoc 7?
[16:16] Siobhan McCallen: I was going to mention svc-22. but someone beat me to it.
[16:16] Kadah Coba: Currently if you disable displaying your profile on the web, no one will be able to see your profile except friends
[16:16] Andrew Linden: DogWomble, we are still on Havok7 right now.
[16:16] Simon Linden: Gamxor - I don't know about that
[16:16] DogWomble Dollinger: thanks andrew
[16:16] Talarus Luan: I have one question about the interest list culling. There are some games which use small objects, like soccer balls in 100m fields; there has been a huge problem introduced with the interest lists which makes them disappear at about 25-40m. Is this in the pipe anywhere to be fixed?
[16:16] Andrew Linden: I think Falcon has upgraded to Havok 2011.1 actually.
[16:17] Andrew Linden: That is part of the mesh project.
[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: im not sure if it is a viewer or server issue, but on the estate script time panel i noticed, the public urls column has never worked, is the server even reporting it?
[16:17] Latif Khalifa: Anybody got extra packet loss here, os is my isp disliking Simon's place :)
[16:17] Andrew Linden: However we're trying to disable the mesh stuff and just deliver the physics upgrade as its own project.
[16:17] Maggie Darwin: I have zero packet loss
[16:18] Lestat Demain: Packets Lost: 334/180849 (0.2%)\
[16:18] Latif Khalifa: Andrew, can you toss in 64m prims while you're at it? :)
[16:18] Ash Qin: I'm not getting packet loss, but the latency is about 80ms more than usual.
[16:18] Siobhan McCallen: 0 packet loss
[16:18] Latif Khalifa: Ah it's my ISP then.
[16:18] Pauline Darkfury: The public URLs on top scripts was short-circuited in the Emerald and later Phoenix source, I discovered, but even with the code re-enabled it was still showing 0
[16:18] Pauline Darkfury: It's also 0 last time I checked it in V2.x
[16:19] Andrew Linden: I'm sure we'll consider 64m prims once the new phys engine is delivered.
[16:19] Andrew Linden: By then I should have prim-encroachment returns working across region boundaries.
[16:19] Kelly Linden: The server code for that panel needs a re-write.
[16:19] Andrew Linden: The rest of the prim-encroachment work is still on hold while I've been working on performance issues. I hope to get back to it soon.
[16:19] Pauline Darkfury: in any such rewrite Kelly, please consider making Top Scripts/Colliders available on a per-parcel basis
[16:20] Kelly Linden: the core server code already supports it, though I don't think the messages/api does.
[16:20] Ash Qin: Err, it is already on a parcel basis
[16:21] Pauline Darkfury: being a responsible mainland landlord right now means you have to pretty much prohibit certain things which are expected to be heavier on script times, with Top Scripts for each parcel, we could much more easily manage it
[16:21] Ash Qin: Click 'script info' in the about land floater.
[16:21] Latif Khalifa: that's limits
[16:21] Latif Khalifa: not top scripts which is in estate
[16:21] Pauline Darkfury: The V2 script info doesn't give any useful info on actual memory usage vs. max, or on script times
[16:22] Cummere Mayo: for thsoe complainging about the web profile opening your own profile: WEB-3643
[16:22] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3643
[#WEB-3643] First attempt to open someone elses profile opens your own
[16:22] Lestat Demain: wow my cookies still 3mb
[16:22] Maggie Darwin: VWR-24821
[16:22] Calcite Serendipity: I would like to see script count/prim sent down so it can be displayed in the Object Details floater
[16:22] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24821
[#VWR-24821] First attempt to display another user's profile displays your own profile
[16:23] Maggie Darwin: It's not a WEB bug. The viewer builds the wrong URL
[16:23] Pauline Darkfury: yes, showing the script count in the object editor would be quite convenient
[16:23] Latif Khalifa: +1
[16:23] Pauline Darkfury: We also need llGetParcelScriptCount() and llGetParcelScriptOwners(), equivalent to the prim counting functions
[16:23] Calcite Serendipity: Need a server protool change for it
[16:24] Latif Khalifa: Kelly, quick, make a new CAP to fetch per object resource usage :)
[16:24] Andrew Linden: Kelly, have you scheduled youre LSL/Mono User Group meeting times yet?
[16:24] Kelly Linden: 9am mondays
[16:25] Kelly Linden: Latif I thought the current caps supported that
[16:25] Kadah Coba: 9am? O.o, crap
[16:25] Kelly Linden: but maybe I'm wrong.
[16:26] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[16:26] Gamxor: please
[16:26] RedMokum Bravin: Kelly, can you please have it added to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups
[16:26] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:27] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:27] Gamxor: please
[16:27] Kelly Linden: RedMokum: I said earlier (sorry) that I was working on getting the Ts and Is crossed and dotted and that is pretty much what I meant.
[16:27] Kelly Linden: I'm still not "official"
[16:27] Tiggs Linden: too short to be official
[16:28] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:28] Kelly Linden: look whos talkin
[16:28] Talarus Luan: Is there any official documentation for available CAPs? I "discovered" one (via Google) which allows getting region names from coords.
[16:28] Siobhan McCallen: Is there an officious list?
[16:28] Latif Khalifa: needs to get throgh "proper channels" ;)
[16:28] Lestat Demain: is dat why your a pitate lindin?
[16:28] Object: Touched.
[16:28] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:28] Maggie Darwin: It's how they keep his roger jolly.
[16:29] RedMokum Bravin: It's just that I'm trying to get Gellan Glenelg to update his "Office Hour Hud" but he needs to be fed with new info.
[16:29] Andrew Linden: That Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups wiki link is the officious list.
[16:29] Maggie Darwin: The SLOfficHour twitter account is broken too
[16:29] Latif Khalifa: Red, there is xml and ical feed
[16:29] Siobhan McCallen: looked too polite to be officious to me, but ok
[16:29] Latif Khalifa: Maggie, that is being worked on
[16:29] Maggie Darwin: It's tweeting broken SLURLs
[16:29] Latif Khalifa: it's MichelleZ running that now
[16:30] Maggie Darwin: Ah, good. I used to know who was running that, just noticed it today
[16:30] Gamxor: can i ask a question please?
[16:31] Latif Khalifa: she's also running RobinC bot that annouces them in #opensl and #awg
[16:31] DogWomble Dollinger: go ahead gamxor
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Yes Gramxor, go ahead.
[16:31] Tiggs Linden: go ahead gramxor
[16:31] Second Life RC LeTigre 11.02.08.220555: Touched.
[16:31] Gamxor: ty...um apparently there was a server change on the teengrid (before merge) but some content went missing
[16:31] Maggie Darwin: The sim keeps touching me . I need an adult.
[16:31] Gamxor: is that true
[16:31] Cummere Mayo: is the user_groups wiki just a clone of theupdated office_hours wiki page? they look the same
[16:31] Ash Qin: Prim encroachment.
[16:31] Gamxor: oh
[16:32] Gamxor: makes sense ty Ash
[16:32] Maggie Darwin: Is that Pedobear with the SL on his tummy?
[16:32] TankMaster Teichmann: mayo, they are the same exact page, the OH is being redirected now
[16:32] Andrew Linden: Gramxor, the disaster that hit the teen grid was a bug in the server that allowed anyone to delete any object... if they used the right protocol.
[16:32] Talarus Luan: There is no OH page, except in old revisions
[16:32] Gamxor: kk ty Andrew
[16:32] Cummere Mayo: ty Teichmann
[16:33] Andrew Linden: Some people found it on both grids, but someone, or a few someones went crazy on the teen grid.
[16:33] Talarus Luan: That's not related to the disappearing megaprim issue, is it?
[16:33] TankMaster Teichmann: no tal
[16:33] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:33] Andrew Linden: Unfortunately the content was not recovered in a timely manner, and is now pretty much lost.
[16:33] Latif Khalifa: that was governence team going crazy :P
[16:34] Andrew Linden: No, that problem was different from the vanishing megaprim event.
[16:34] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:34] Lestat Demain: sure it wasnt a party u didnt know about?
[16:34] Cummere Mayo: its sad that so much was lost simply from tickets not being handled quickly
[16:34] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:34] DogWomble Dollinger: on a side note
[16:34] Cummere Mayo: we really should get some kind of compensation from LL for that
[16:34] DogWomble Dollinger: simon, i want that bear gun :P
[16:35] Siobhan McCallen: gah! I've been infested!
[16:35] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:35] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:35] Ash Qin: Not really the place to discuss compensation though I think.
[16:35] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:36] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, that's a business thing really, would have been a topic for Jack's OH, if anywhere
[16:36] Talarus Luan: :-/
[16:36] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:36] Latif Khalifa: vote for it on jira! :P
[16:36] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:37] Pauline Darkfury: Hmmmm, the bear gun makes me thing. anti-griefing Lindens should create a bearzooka for themselves, make griefer-hunting a bit more fun for them ;)
[16:37] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:37] DogWomble Dollinger: LOL
[16:37] DogWomble Dollinger: LOL
[16:37] Siobhan McCallen: this is getting unbearable
[16:37] DogWomble Dollinger: now that's a fun sounding weapon
[16:38] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:38] Kelly Linden: I need to head out. have a good weekend everyone.
[16:38] DogWomble Dollinger: take care kelly
[16:38] Draconis Neurocam: take care kelly
[16:38] Arawn Spitteler: Does Jack guarantee that SL will function adequatley, for expensive events? I thought Cummere ate him already
[16:38] Ash Qin: Have fun, Kelly.
[16:38] Pauline Darkfury: Take care, Kelly, have a good one :)
[16:38] Latif Khalifa: have good one Kelly :)
[16:38] RedMokum Bravin: Ciao Kelly
[16:38] Lestat Demain: the whales not eating the bears
[16:38] TankMaster Teichmann: tc kelly
[16:38] Talarus Luan: Ciao Kelly, and welcome back (first time I've seen ya this year) :)
[16:38] Siobhan McCallen: see ya!
[16:38] Maggie Darwin: Not on his diet
[16:38] Andrew Linden is listening to his own dub feed and can't hear the Bear Gun.
[16:38] Maggie Darwin: Laters!
[16:38] Draconis Neurocam: haha
[16:38] Second Life RC LeTigre 11.02.08.220555: Touched.
[16:39] TankMaster Teichmann hasnt gotten fmod to work in FS yet, and hears no sounds either :P
[16:39] Latif Khalifa: lol
[16:39] Latif Khalifa: that's one way to do it
[16:39] Cummere Mayo: speaking of greifers ... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6733
[16:39] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-6733] Throttle movement/intrasim teleports speeds via script
[16:40] Cummere Mayo: people are using lsl to make objects that move or teleport a person around a sim so fast that they crash out everyone else and lag the sim
[16:40] Maggie Darwin: You want to throttle the King of Thing?
[16:40] Tiggs Linden just spent time making tp's and crossings fast
[16:41] Tiggs Linden: you want to slow them down?
[16:41] Pauline Darkfury: scripts don't "call" teleports, it's all just movement, optionally via a float overflow (which tends to show as 0,0,0) for PosJump
[16:41] Cummere Mayo: this isnt regular tps
[16:41] Latif Khalifa: lol Tiggs
[16:41] Lestat Demain: nooo i like instant tp`s
[16:41] Talarus Luan: Fix the crash cause
[16:41] Cummere Mayo: this is within the sim
[16:41] Latif Khalifa: yeah
[16:41] Tiggs Linden: there is a fix for the crash
[16:41] Cummere Mayo: you cant tal...
[16:41] Siobhan McCallen: Considering one of my products is a jumpdrive for starships, I'd rather not see them get slowed down.
[16:41] Liisa Runo: instead of limiting stuff, how about fixing the bug that cause the crash?
[16:41] Maggie Darwin: Please don't mess with scripted movement
[16:41] Talarus Luan: Uhh, you can if you are a programmer :p
[16:41] Talarus Luan: No excuse for crashes
[16:41] Pauline Darkfury: Anything which slows/throttles prim changes is going to have very wide and unintended consequences
[16:42] Cummere Mayo: the crash is cuased cuase it overloads all known graphics cards
[16:42] Latif Khalifa: I don't want my resizer to be any slower ;)
[16:42] Siobhan McCallen: talking about breaking content
[16:42] Simon Linden: yeah, that sounds like a bug that should be fixed in the viewer
[16:42] Lestat Demain: haha not mine :P
[16:42] Maggie Darwin searches eBay for an unknown graphics card
[16:42] Pauline Darkfury: It'll break certain types of elevators, prim animation, vehicles, all sort of things, so please no limit there unless it's very high one that is purely to prevent server crashes. Just ban/AR people that abuse it
[16:42] Jonathan Yap: Search returns VT240
[16:42] Talarus Luan: Then throttle what is overloading the graphics card in the viewer (though I have my doubts as to that claim in the first place)
[16:42] Cummere Mayo: im tlaking about movements of like 100times a second
[16:42] Siobhan McCallen: if it's overloading rendering that badly, it's something in the render engine
[16:42] Twisted Laws: Cummere, they are wearing attachments made of 255 prims each that cause that, you can stop it with shift/ctrl/alt/2 in the viewer
[16:43] Cummere Mayo: single prim object twisted
[16:43] Pauline Darkfury: Prim animation uses bursts of 100 movements to do certain things smoothly
[16:43] Lestat Demain: assuming u have time to
[16:43] Arawn Spitteler: How can they teleport anybody? Standing is all that would be needed.
[16:43] Maggie Darwin: Submit it as a viewer bug. Apparently you have an excellent repro.
[16:43] Twisted Laws: some are megaprim attachments of only 1 prim, yes
[16:44] Cummere Mayo: no its not a megaprim
[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: The other thing is, we don't want extra overheads for validation being added to llSLPPF
[16:44] Twisted Laws: same block ... if enuf people hear and know about the block, then their effectiveness is 0 and they'll stop using them
[16:44] Cummere Mayo: its ONE small attachment of one prim with a script that cuases the avatar to jump around the sim litterally faster then it can be rendered
[16:44] Maggie Darwin: More than once per frame? :-)
[16:45] Lestat Demain: kill the manufacturer
[16:45] Maggie Darwin: Sounds goofy.
[16:45] Talarus Luan: Not sure what that means. It's all frame animated by state anyway
[16:45] Gamxor: faster than the speed of rez..wow sounds cool
[16:45] Pauline Darkfury: The best fix for something like that would be a client side throttle which just discards the update if it's beyond the capability of the local system to render it
[16:45] Talarus Luan: Sounds like it is just a crash mode bug in the viewer
[16:45] Simon Linden: that's not that fast, really
[16:45] Ash Qin: That's what we call God speed
[16:45] Maggie Darwin: Cummere: you have one of these magic prims?
[16:45] Cummere Mayo: one of the support techs took some screen captures
[16:46] RedMokum Bravin: But nothing was seen on screen?
[16:46] Siobhan McCallen: Warppos moves you faster than it can be rendered. It's not a teleport, it's just a lot of moves, done all at once. It doesn't crash people.
[16:46] RedMokum Bravin: (then it was too fast)
[16:46] Siobhan McCallen: Posjump is even faster. It doesn't crash people.
[16:46] Ash Qin: warppos does it in a single frame, so your viewer gets told te end result.
[16:46] Lestat Demain: bah need more coffee
[16:47] Ash Qin: Rather than each of the steps done in a warppos.
[16:47] Arawn Spitteler: Doesn't llSetPos have a .2 second delay?
[16:47] Ash Qin: Yes it does, Arawn.
[16:47] Pauline Darkfury: llSLPPF gets rid of the delay
[16:47] Andrew Linden: I'm guessing that if you're wearing the right kind of attachments you can probably crash a viewer using WarPos or PosJump too fast.
[16:47] Talarus Luan: heh. who uses llSetPos for avatar movement? :P
[16:47] Andrew Linden: We know there are render-bombs that don't even need to be worn.
[16:48] Ash Qin: Well, I don't believe it's possible to move an avatar with posjump or warppos
[16:48] Jonathan Yap: we saw one of those here last month
[16:48] Ash Qin: When they're wearing it as an attachment
[16:48] Maggie Darwin: Ash: Sit on it.
[16:48] Andrew Linden: So you could wear a minor render-bomb and move it around constantly -- can probably tickle some render bug eventually.
[16:48] Ash Qin: Yes, but I'm referring to wearing it as an attachment as stated.
[16:48] Maggie Darwin: I mean, on the scripted object
[16:48] Pauline Darkfury: Ahh yeah, not as an attachment, I think
[16:48] Siobhan McCallen: has to be sat on. I wish it could be worn, I tried that.
[16:49] Talarus Luan was having a flashback "Happy Days" moment. <.<
[16:49] Latif Khalifa: you cannot use attachmet for moving that fast, you need to sit on it
[16:49] Twisted Laws: you can use set link params and move the avatar around pretty fast
[16:49] Arawn Spitteler: Couldn't we overwhelm the viewer, just by sitting a hundred meters from a box, and spinning it?
[16:49] Ash Qin: Latif, I beg to differ. I've been able to do some pretty fast movements using dashing methods.
[16:49] Siobhan McCallen: Then there's the various dashes
[16:49] Maggie Darwin: How do you spin the viewer?
[16:50] Latif Khalifa: Ash, like warppos 500m in a frame?
[16:50] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, the dashes are a different technique to WarpPos & PosJump, I think. They use physics type movement, don't they?
[16:50] Talarus Luan: llMoveToTarget
[16:50] Talarus Luan: With a very short tau
[16:50] Pauline Darkfury: yup
[16:50] Ash Qin: Latif, maybe three frames
[16:50] Ash Qin: But I could probably do it if I spent more time on it.
[16:50] Maggie Darwin: If something's crashing the viewer, the fix is not in the server side.
[16:51] Pauline Darkfury: yup, agreed, 99% of viewer crashes should be fixed in the viewer
[16:51] Cummere Mayo: its not only crashing the viewers, it also eventually crashes the sim
[16:51] Siobhan McCallen: don't think it's that one
[16:51] Latif Khalifa: not 99%, 100%
[16:51] Latif Khalifa: viewer should not crash
[16:51] TankMaster Teichmann: ^
[16:51] Andrew Linden: Oh really Cummere? If someone has a sim crasher I'd like a copy.
[16:51] Pauline Darkfury: well, I'm allowing for there maybe being a case where something which crashes the viewer should also be fixed in the server. Yes, agree that the viewer should be made 100% robust ultimately
[16:51] Ash Qin: Cummere, how is it crashing sims? I use posjump and warppos for a few objects in my sim, sometimes really, really rapidly and not had a sim crash.
[16:52] Maggie Darwin: Seems like every time somebody creates a throttle "to prevent griefing" content breaks someplace
[16:52] Latif Khalifa: yeah
[16:52] Talarus Luan: Well, you can make a sim bog down to the point of crashing, but that's nothing new, and not really much can be done about it.
[16:52] Cummere Mayo: andrew the name above the partially rezed avatar in that photo has one
[16:52] Ash Qin: I can't figure out how you crash a sim with rapid posjumps
[16:52] Pauline Darkfury: yup, breaking useful content for 99.9% of people is not worth it to solve a problem caused by 0.1% of residents
[16:52] Latif Khalifa: agreed
[16:55] Ashiri Sands: bye and thanks
[16:55] Lestat Demain: u sure they actually are residents?
[16:56] Zidonuke Ghost: Whats going on? Arrived late >.>
[16:56] Maggie Darwin: Not a lot
[16:56] Lestat Demain: dropping a fake email and 5 mins registration isnt exactly resident status
[16:56] Tiggs Linden: we're deciding the best way to grief sims
[16:56] Zidonuke Ghost: There are over 9000 methods to grief sims
[16:56] Zidonuke Ghost: you wont ever stop it
[16:57] Ash Qin: The most effective way to grief a sim is to stand close to people.
[16:57] Pauline Darkfury: yes, it's kinda easy for a banned griefer that has half a clue to evade the ban. Not an awful lot can be done about that if we want SL to have maximum growth potential
[16:57] Tiggs Linden must remember to be serious on occasion
[16:57] Talarus Luan: Oh, LL has stopped over 9000 methods already. :)
[16:57] Cummere Mayo: bans are innefective. more useful to revive cornfields
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: The best way to stop them is to make it boring / no-fun, tbh
[16:58] Ash Qin: Didn't the cornfields cause a problem where people tried to do bad things intentionally to see them?
[16:58] Lestat Demain: lol yeh bring back the cornfields
[16:58] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:58] DogWomble Dollinger: heh i've never seen one of the cornfields
[16:58] Siobhan McCallen: All you'll do is cause massive consternation to the people who didn't do it, and make the griefers laugh -- because their initial intention was to make people tear out their hair in the first place
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: Just eject/ban them without drama, get on with something fun yourself
[16:58] Andrew Linden: I think the cornfield still exists.
[16:58] Zidonuke Ghost: it does exist
[16:58] Andrew Linden: We had a little field trip there one time.
[16:58] Tiggs Linden: it does,
[16:58] Ash Qin: DogWomble, they come back every halloween
[16:58] Andrew Linden: it just isn't being used
[16:58] Cummere Mayo: its still there
[16:58] Zidonuke Ghost: I've been last year when teagan left.
[16:58] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[16:58] Maggie Darwin: ha ha "field trip" get it?
[16:59] Pauline Darkfury: lol
[16:59] Cummere Mayo: ><
[16:59] DogWomble Dollinger: haha can we do another field trip andrew? :P
[16:59] Talarus Luan: Corny joke
[16:59] Liisa Runo: the halloween cornfield is fake, not the real one, the real one never been open to public
[16:59] Lestat Demain: u make it sound like the burmuda triangle
[16:59] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[16:59] Andrew Linden: Not today. I've got to leave right at 17:00.
[16:59] Cummere Mayo: ive been taken there a couple times... one of my favorite ex lindens considered it a very relaxing place
[16:59] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, it's there - The Corn Field (128,128,2)
[17:00] Draconis Neurocam: take care andrew your work is greatly appreciated
[17:00] DogWomble Dollinger: aah okay andre
[17:00] DogWomble Dollinger: *andrew
[17:00] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[17:00] Cummere Mayo: tc andrew
[17:00] Ash Qin: Bye Andrew, have fun
[17:00] DogWomble Dollinger: catchya round
[17:00] Pauline Darkfury: Take care, Andrew, have a good weekend :)
[17:00] Siobhan McCallen: thankyou andrew
[17:00] Psi Merlin: Thanks Andrew
[17:00] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:00] Maggie Darwin: Have a good one.
[17:00] TankMaster Teichmann: thx for coming andrew
[17:00] DogWomble Dollinger: and simon, before you go, can i please pretty please have a copy of that bear gun :P
[17:00] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming, have a good weekend and we'll see you next week
[17:00] Tiggs Linden: ta andrew, simon
[17:00] Siobhan McCallen: thank you too, simon, tiggs
[17:00] TankMaster Teichmann: you to, simon
[17:00] Talarus Luan: Ciao.
[17:00] DogWomble Dollinger: take care simon
[17:00] TankMaster Teichmann: and good to see you here, tiggs :)
[17:00] Zidonuke Ghost: Remember, do everyone a favor, Crash a Linden today!
[17:00] Twisted Laws: Have a good weekend!
[17:00] Maggie Darwin: "Bear's away!" doesn't take an apostrophe.
[17:00] Zidonuke Ghost: hahah
[17:00] Zidonuke Ghost: :3
[17:00] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks other Lindens, take care, have a good weekend :)
[17:01] SL Bear Gun: Bear's away!
[17:01] Arawn Spitteler: Amazing, a maze o' maize
[17:01] Tiggs Linden: unless the away belongs to the bear
[17:01] Ash Qin: Have a good weekend all. I'm going back to my skybox.
[17:01] Pauline Darkfury: hmm, could be "Bear is away!" ;)
[17:01] RedMokum Bravin: Happy travelling Ash
[17:01] Simon Linden: DW - I can give you the script, but I don't give out the bears
[17:01] SL Bear Gun: Cease fire!
[17:01] RedMokum Bravin: Good weekend all!
[17:01] Pauline Darkfury: but probably should lose the apostrophe
[17:01] Cummere Mayo: simon's bear is well hidden.
[17:02] Cummere Mayo: ive still never found it
[17:02] Arawn Spitteler: Thge apostrophe is progressive, rathter than possesive.
[17:02] Latif Khalifa: have a good one everyone!
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