Doc Team/2010-06-16

== Transcript ==
[13:01]	:	Hey guys. How's things?
[13:01]	:	Hiyas, pretty good.
[13:01]	:	Ok. Usiing Radegast here, so can't see 3D world.
[13:01]	:	Ooh. What is Radegast?
[13:02]	:	If it's a non-3D viewer, I'm impressed that you were able to sit down.
[13:02]	:	Was hopeing Torly is still around.
[13:02]	:	http://radegastclient.org/wp/
[13:02]	:	Yep, Doc Team is still all here. I'm the only one who can make it to office hours this week, though :-/
[13:03]	:	I sat on "YEP Black leather coutch" Whatever that was.
[13:03]	:	Oh, cool. You're definitely sitting on one of the couches.
[13:03]	:	Can Radegast open URLs?
[13:03]	:	Yes.
[13:04]	:	it can open surls _without_ spaces ok.
[13:04]	:	http://screencast.com/t/ZjAyZTVjZ
[13:04]	:	heh, the animation worked too.
[13:05]	:	I'me courious, how easy was it to do that webpage? Or upload I sould say.
[13:05]	:	The screencast one?
[13:05]	:	yes.
[13:05]	:	That was rather fast.
[13:06]	:	Ridiculously easy. I use a tool called Jing: http://www.jingproject.com
[13:06]	:	I press a capture button, drag a box on my screen, click "image", then click "upload" and it automatically uploads to Screencast.com and puts the URL on my clipboard. Then I just Ctrl+V to paste it :-)
[13:06]	:	/me checks....
[13:07]	:	Windows and Mac...need linux...
[13:07]	:	uh oh. the infantry has arrived
[13:07]	:	Yeah. I do love it, though. I use it constantly in my line of work.
[13:08]	:	uh-oh.... server 1.40. :-)
[13:08]	:	The Lindens hired me for vermin control
[13:08]	:	/me hides his tail
[13:08]	:	Good thing Tiggs isn't here!
[13:08]	:	hehehe, that what I do, but they don't need to hire me. I do it for the snacks. ;-)
[13:09]	:	eep...just relized i'me human here...
[13:09]	:	<---- is a werewolf. His alt.
[13:09]	:	Hello Aazy and WolfBaginsky. Welcome to this week's Documentation Office Hour.
[13:09]	:	I'm the only Linden here this week; Jon's on vacation, Kate is taking a day off, and Torley is really busy!
[13:10]	:	I know a guy who tried to cast silver bullets.
[13:10]	:	Hello
[13:10]	:	Hello!
[13:10]	:	Hi there ^^
[13:11]	:	Silver bullets is possiable, but some guns require a lead or metle jacket in order to fired though.
[13:11]	:	ah, poor Torley
[13:11]	:	Poor?! Don't you mean lucky? He still around.
[13:11]	:	He cou;dn't get the silver hot enough to melt...
[13:11]	:	well, there IS that.
[13:12]	:	so... this isn't exactly documentation, but I have a couple website-related questions: Do we know if there are prospects of updating the Jive version any time soon?
[13:12]	:	I'm especially sad to see my friends go.
[13:12]	:	Now, we can't expect Jeremy to comment, can we,
[13:12]	 	has pinged you.
[13:12]	:	I haven't heard anything specific, Qie, but we're going to be focusing a lot more on "self-help" style support in the future. I imagine that will involve making sure our online tools are as updated and easy-to-use as possible.
[13:13]	:	yeah the current online tools aren't very practical at the moment
[13:13]	:	All Lindens have been forbidden to speak of the disator of the blogfourms "upgrade".
[13:14]	:	Heh. Yeah, like I said, I don't know anything specific about our Jive situation right now :-)
[13:14]	:	okay... well that gets at my second question, even less doc-related: seems the support portal has changed the way it reports ticket histories... it's very strange now
[13:14]	:	Oh?
[13:14]	:	seems like everything has been recently imported into something new... or something
[13:14]	:	When I looked at my ticket history, it was empty.
[13:15]	:	Oh! Well, I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say about that. Lemme check with the powers that be.
[13:15]	:	they were all imported on the 9th
[13:16]	:	(the "summary" text is... pretty much useless, so searching doesn't find anything useful... and it looks like the title and description never got imported
[13:16]	:	Doh!
[13:16]	:	so... I'm not sure whether to jira that, or if it's a work-in-progress
[13:17]	:	/me secretly kicks himself for using "jira" as a verb
[13:17]	:	I use "jira" as a verb constantly!
[13:18]	:	ah, then there's precedent. :)
[13:18]	:	Oh, and I'm told that I can't talk about the specifics, but the issue with searching yout ticket history is "being worked on".
[13:18]	:	Qie. you last point, with so little reliable info on what's happening, it's hard to know what to do.
[13:18]	:	JIRA *isn't* a verb?
[13:18]	:	It's not even an acronym, I hear.
[13:19]	:	oh, okay... maybe I'll jira it anyway, just in case the title and description got lost in the import process. thanks.
[13:19]	:	Cool.
[13:19]	:	And yeah, as I understand it, "Jira" is a product name, which is possibly a shortened form of "Gojira" :-P
[13:20]	:	Whoa, Wikipedia backs me up on that.
[13:20]	:	The product name, JIRA, is not an acronym but rather a truncation of "Gojira", the Japanese name for Godzilla.
[13:21]	:	indeed
[13:21]	:	^
[13:21]	:	How appropriate.
[13:21]	:	:-D
[13:21]	:	Is anyone else getting some serious chat lag here?
[13:21]	:	Jira is a four-letter word.
[13:21]	:	/me starts humming "Godzilla'.... "ohhhhh no, there goes Tokyo..."
[13:21]	:	Been getting odd bursts of chat lag, but nothing obvious here.
[13:22]	:	Yeah, it seems to be intermittent.
[13:23]	:	Anyway, has anyone got any great software self-help stories to share? Systems you've seen where help or tutorials are well-integrated into the product, or just really useful documentation?
[13:23]	:	Oh, it seems as though there's always lag, but not necessarily something you notice.
[13:24]	:	i could never have learnt 3ds max without the built in help files
[13:24]	:	it was all i had, as i was without internet
[13:24]	:	Was there something in particular about 3DS Max's help that made it stand out from other help systems?
[13:25]	:	yes, it was the only help i had for 3ds XD
[13:25]	:	this was back in 1994
[13:25]	:	Heh! I suppose that makes it notable :-)
[13:26]	:	kids these days have it easy ;)
[13:26]	:	The Borland Turbo Pascal printed manuals. I was using 'em to help people on newgroups and I'm not sure I ever really got to think in Pascal.
[13:27]	:	When I tried Free Realms about a year ago, I was impressed by the way they integrated the tutorials directly into their client. It could easily draw your attention to the live controls, all while giving you text and voice cues to learn new tasks.
[13:27]	:	You have heard of Newsgroups, Jeremy?
[13:27]	 	has pinged you.
[13:27]	:	I'm familiar with them, Wolf :-)
[13:27]	:	i got my newsgroups via a fidonet hack ;)
[13:29]	:	I think you might find "software self-help" could be incompatible with keeping secrets.
[13:30]	:	in sl i found that external tutorials for sculpties when they cam out where of great value compared to ll provided sources
[13:30]	:	as the development processes in sl are often secret
[13:30]	:	makes it hard to document as part of the dev process
[13:30]	:	sure there is a beta group
[13:31]	:	and they will often be in power over non beta ppl
[13:31]	:	as they have direct linden access
[13:31]	:	and then they dont often share due to wanting to have a market edge
[13:31]	:	stop the secrecy
[13:31]	:	*smiles*
[13:32]	:	/me tries not to promulgate conspiracy theories, but notes that a lot of people on SL are not programmers.
[13:32]	:	well, I don't entirely blame those beta group people for being secretive, since they had to sign an NDA. it's the NDAs that should go away, IMHO.
[13:32]	:	Sculpties and textures are an interesting topic when it comes to SL documentation. We have to walk a fine line between telling you what our product does, and telling you how to use someone else's product to create something that works in Second Life.
[13:32]	:	sorry, but I did sign an NDA and because of that I cant talk about NDAs
[13:33]	:	awww crap I just said NDA
[13:33]	:	The first rule of NDA is don't talk about NDA?
[13:33]	:	Heh, Bronson, I got *offered* an NDA, and was told I couldn't talk about it. (!)
[13:33]	:	whats and NDA? where? wha?
[13:33]	:	so did i, but i feel as long as its kept general and within what has made public already its ok XD
[13:33]	:	I'll send yopu a notecard with the details of where and when I expoect toi shoot you.
[13:33]	:	(my nda is on mesh project)
[13:34]	:	(yeah, that's the one I refused to sign)
[13:34]	:	/me pretends not to hear any of this.
[13:34]	:	NDA= North Dakota Association
[13:35]	:	Oh! Ok then.
[13:35]	:	One thing I heard was that the "official" info on sculpties had been wrong on LOD effects.
[13:36]	:	Mean't you were picking the wrong key points to define a shape, and so the object would unexpectedly change shape.
[13:37]	:	Oh, strange!
[13:37]	:	The docs I worked on for sculpties were mostly limited to "how to apply a sculpt texture to an object".
[13:38]	:	indeed most devs of 3rd party software for sculpts had to go to qarl for info
[13:40]	:	Yeah, Qarl was the guy for that. Luckily, since we moved the KB to the wiki, we can be a lot more flexible about the kind of information we add to it.
[13:40]	:	At the time, "KB" meant specifically "stuff you can do in the Viewer", and "wiki" was "more technical stuff". Now the distinction is not as significant :-)
[13:40]	:	yes, moving to a wiki format was a great improvement
[13:41]	:	moving ppl to use the wiki, i dunno, often shows up in google searches when wanting specifics
[13:42]	:	I'm not sure I understand, lonetorus.
[13:42]	:	usually when I try finding something on the wiki, itgives me an endless stream of OH meetings
[13:42]	:	well, art of what youa re asking, as i understand it is, how to get people to use the resource (wiki) that exist already
[13:42]	:	part
[13:43]	:	Thanks for your time, Jeremy.
[13:43]	 	has pinged you.
[13:43]	:	Thanks for coming, Milla.
[13:43]	:	lonetorus, I'm always looking for more ways to get people to use the wiki :-)
[13:43]	:	bronson, thats why i tend to use google as a search engine when wanting something from the wiki
[13:43]	:	If we can use wiki content in creative ways (such as the Viewer Help), so much the better.
[13:43]	:	the default mediawiki search is pretty horrid at finding what you need
[13:43]	:	lol
[13:44]	:	yep
[13:44]	:	Hope they improve all in-viewer search, and then it might have the Wiki as a usefulk option.
[13:44]	:	As I understand it, the search field on the SL wiki has two buttons: "Go" uses the default wiki search, and "Search" should use our Google Search Appliance.
[13:44]	:	is there a way to integrate teh google appliance with the wiki (not sure if this is being done already)
[13:45]	:	hmmm... or maybe Lucene
[13:45]	:	/me sees into the future and answers lonetorus's question before he asks it.
[13:46]	:	hehe
[13:46]	:	but what bronson said, lots of information gets shared at office hours
[13:47]	:	stuff that does not get informed anywhere else
[13:47]	:	yep
[13:47]	:	True. I wonder if we can find a way to either filter that information or search it more effectively.
[13:48]	:	search order?
[13:48]	:	i think its near impossible to automate in a meaningful way
[13:48]	:	like a priority system I guess I am trying to say
[13:49]	:	Im not a programmer
[13:49]	:	Some office hours seem to be seriously geeky. Different office hours likely need different handling for a searchable archive.
[13:49]	:	Probably, but we might be able to organize better. Maybe, for example, by putting all office hour transcripts in an "Office Hours" namespace.
[13:49]	:	yes that would help
[13:49]	:	one big help woyld be to formalize a office hour format
[13:50]	:	so each lindens office hour have a documented agenda
[13:50]	:	and then the actual transcript
[13:50]	:	>_>
[13:50]	:	like when I was trying to find out info on shadows, I would get someone talking about secretive work in the shadows
[13:50]	:	/me never has an agenda.
[13:50]	:	nyx does it well
[13:50]	:	nyx does yes
[13:51]	:	and a introductory page on the wiki explaining how it fits together
[13:51]	:	like a office hour portsal
[13:51]	:	portal
[13:51]	:	Blue Linden, according to the Wiki, still has an office hour.
[13:51]	:	Interesting idea, lonetorus. Office hours could probably use a bit more promotion, as a concept.
[13:53]	:	Hmm... Phantom office hour?
[13:53]	:	not sure what you mean
[13:53]	:	Blues?
[13:53]	:	The tech seems to limit an office hour to the same sort of level as a troop of baboons, It can't be all that much bigger.
[13:53]	:	It seems to exist, but it's not really there :-)
[13:54]	:	baboons
[13:54]	:	lol
[13:54]	:	ah yes, still still need time to settle down after the exodus
[13:54]	:	I like that unit of measure... Not sure if it measures bodies, maturity level, or behavior, though.
[13:54]	:	all three
[13:55]	:	Oh, nice! Torley just added video tutorials to my Voice Morphing wiki page: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Voice_Morphing
[13:55]	:	checking this out now
[13:55]	:	SL is maybe a city, and getting the info to spread from the original troop of baboons is hard. In human terms, it's an extended family. Nwxt step is the Clan. Then you get a Dialectal Tribe.
[13:56]	:	isnt morph just another way to monetize sl?
[13:56]	:	"Just another way"?
[13:56]	:	omg Torley sounds hot as a female
[13:57]	:	/lnows what he like, and Torley don't have it/
[13:57]	:	/me kicks his typoist.
[13:57]	:	Heh!
[13:58]	:	typoist? is this a replacement for Maoist?
[13:58]	:	on that note did you all read prospero lindens last blog entry http://www.sonic.net/ ~rknop/blog/?p=272
[13:58]	:	err. formerly known as prospero i should say
[13:59]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:59]	:	I'll have to check that out.
[14:00]	:	Snipping here for the transcript!
 
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Category:Documentation Office Hours