Doc Team/2009-02-18

== Transcript ==
*Laura Ophelia: I would really like to know if LL is planning any improvements of the inworld avatars
*Reed Wylder: I wish they would for me lOL
*Daniel Voyager: Hi Jeremy
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Daniel Voyager has pinged you.
*Tourmaline Falken: lol
*Reed Wylder: I'm surrounded by green dots but only see 4 ppl
*Laura Ophelia: hi Jeremy
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Laura Ophelia has pinged you.
*Tourmaline Falken: I could try and sit but might end up on someone's lap
*PazDinero Galaxy: yo! J-dawg. We're maxin'.
*Jeremy Linden: Hi everyone!
*Tourmaline Falken: Hi Jeremy
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Tourmaline Falken has pinged you.
*Jeremy Linden: Am I the first Linden here?
*PazDinero Galaxy: Torley just rezed in and out. said he'd be back
*Allison Widdershins: just missed Torley
*Torley Linden: OKAY!
*Daniel Voyager: WB Torley
*Laura Ophelia: i believe so Jer
*Torley Linden: I'M BACK AND HERE TO STAY.
*Torley Linden: Thanx!
*Allison Widdershins: or not
*xstorm Radek: hi Jeremy :-)
*Jeremy Linden: Heh!
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): xstorm Radek has pinged you.
*PazDinero Galaxy: WB! Bro.
*Tourmaline Falken: Hey Torley :)
*SLB Wirefly: hello :)
*Torley Linden: Glad you could all make it, hey Jeremy!
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*Torley Linden: We're arriving.
*Laura Ophelia: hi Torley
*Reed Wylder: Hope I didn't just sit on someone
*xstorm Radek: i hope no one mind me sitting in and asking some things
*Jeremy Linden: Jon says he can't make it today. He's ridiculously busy again this week.
*Torley Linden: We're working on our new blog content... set to launch tomorrow.
*Tourmaline Falken: awww I miss the jello guy
*xstorm Radek: wb torley
*Qie Niangao: yay for new blog!
*Daniel Voyager: YAY!
*Ellla McMahon: Laura, you just missed Nyx Office Hour He is doing some work on avatars http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours#Nyx_Linden
*Torley Linden: I'll feel so good when the new blogs are running... communicatin'... rockin on'... ;D
*xstorm Radek: i just got back out of the hospital from blood treatment so i may be slow at text
*Torley Linden: And Kate Linden has arrived!
*Tourmaline Falken: Hello Kate
*PazDinero Galaxy: Yo, Kate!
*Allison Widdershins: Hi Kate
*xstorm Radek: so any one mind me sitting in and asking some thing ?
*Marianne McCann: Ellla - oh? This I'd love to know about!
*Kate Linden: Hi :)
*Laura Ophelia: so are there any improments on the way ella ?
*Marianne McCann: An hi everyone!
*xstorm Radek: hi kate
*Marianne McCann: (And extra hi to the person breathing heavy into their microphone)
*xstorm Radek: hi every one
*Arawn Spitteler: We might be clever enough, to notice Xstorm's question
*Nils Apfelbaum: XD
*Marianne McCann: Sokay. I figgured oyu did't know
*Marianne McCann winks
*Arawn Spitteler: It gets crowded here, and we might miss a few.
*snes Steerpike: hi becks
*Ellla McMahon: drop by at his OH next week .. I'm sure he'd love to talk about it .. there was a long discussion on a;pha sorting today
*Laura Ophelia: do we have these sessions every week ?
*Reed Wylder: Awesome AV Torley :)
*Torley Linden: Daniel, what a great avatar. I'm tempted to eat.
*Marianne McCann: Ick... alpha sorting
*Daniel Voyager: LOL, runs!
*Torley Linden: Thanx Reed, I've got a fan fishie mini-me courtesy of Dakotta here.
*xstorm Radek: i wish to ask about one part in the TOS
*Torley Linden: A watermelon with a smile... two of my favorite things.
*Dakotta Karu: haha mini me
*Kate Linden: Laura yes this is our weekly Doc Team office hour.
*Torley Linden: We've got our Tips & Tricks (TNT) blog coming up very soon... as soon as tomorrow.
*xstorm Radek: so people will understand it better
*PazDinero Galaxy: I look forward to it.
*Daniel Voyager: I just love this av. :) Best one yet
*Tourmaline Falken: Torley's come as a Watermelon Big Bird?
*Marianne McCann: Very cool, Kate
*Torley Linden: If you haven't seen the news yet, http://blog.secondlife.com/2009/02/13/coming-soonthe-good-ol-days/
*Tourmaline Falken: @D
*Torley Linden: Tourmaline, sorta like that. ;) Dr. Seuss-inspired, apparently.
*Kate Linden: lol Daniel you just rezzed for me. The avatar is very cute.
*Daniel Voyager: lol
*Tourmaline Falken: yeah good av :)
*Allison Widdershins: pfft I thought these WERE the good old days
*Tourmaline Falken: It's TOURMA lol
*snes Steerpike: hi everyone
*Torley Linden: OH CRAP I HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT TOURMA
*Torley Linden: One of these days... I'll get it right!
*Tourmaline Falken: YES YOU DO lol
*Torley Linden: If any of you have quick tips that could appear on our Message of the Day, let us know... we've got a bunch lined up but can never have enough tips.
*Marianne McCann: From now, jes refer to Torley as "Throatwarbler Mangrove," Tourma.
*Torley Linden: The MOTD is that thing you see when you're logging in.
*Torley Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Motd
*xstorm Radek: i wish to ask if some thing can be put in TIPs to help gateway sims and welcome places or what was called telehubs in my day
*Simon Kline: i've noticed some of the tips say click here when logging in.. but you can't click there :D
*Jeremy Linden returns from blogland.
*Marianne McCann: I still need to work on a couple spares, Torley. Workin up that "community" stuff in between a huuuge presentation for the Bay City Alliance
*Torley Linden: xstorm, you mean on private estates? How an estate owner/manager can setup their own telehubs? Or do you mean, on the mainland?
*Tourmaline Falken: I can click on them Simon ..
*Marianne McCann: (And finishing out m y Holiday Marketplace parcel, an a TL party, and my rez day, and... and...)
*Daniel Voyager: Torley, check this out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/danielvoyager/sets/72157605831837339/ - Special Torley Set with new adventures on Here! lol
*Torley Linden: Simon, you should be able to, it's just not obvious because the link isn't styled differently (non-trivial prob). It works for me + Firefox on Windows and Mac. What setup you on?
*xstorm Radek: yes but the LL places like Korea1 , waterhead and new gateways such as london gateway sims
*Torley Linden: That's a big ball of community goodness, Marianne.
*Simon Kline: ahhh i'm using a public nightly viewer.. winxp i'll try again :D
*Marianne McCann: Yups, Torley
*Tu Cao: i have but one question, there is a rumor ive heard, that in order to streamline, both adult, and teen grids, are being merged, is this true, or even on the board?
*xstorm Radek: they are there to help new people trying to learn and come in to SL
*Torley Linden: xstorm, currently, we aren't adding more Infohubs to the mainland, but estate owners are welcome to create their own orientation experiences. Further in the future, we're going to streamline and majorly (!?) simplify what we call "the first hour" in SL.
*Reed Wylder accepted your inventory offer.
*Torley Linden: The Linden Department of Public Works continues to build Linden-overseen tourist attractions to beautify new mainland, however.
*xstorm Radek: no i wish to see the rule define for the welcome place such as korea1
*Marianne McCann: Torley - actuallyy..... Jack did announce last week in his OH that the Bay City infohub is back on the radar, and there is some discussion about location for one in or near Nautilus
*xstorm Radek: so a tip that will help people understand the TOS is needed
*Torley Linden: Mari, OK, correct me then. I'm behind the times as that was delayed.
*Torley Linden: Thanks. :)
*Torley Linden: (I'm no longer involved with overseeing Infohubs so I don't know much there.)
*PazDinero Galaxy: Wow. We're really Maxin' here today... quick documentation question... what file type is used for the textures saved in SL's app data cache?
*Torley Linden: Tu, I can't comment on that. But do give the source of your rumor, I insist. :p
*Marianne McCann: I've been *way* too involved with Bay City lately, which keeps that on my radar, Torley
*xstorm Radek: i like to see the TOS broken down to make new people and non RP and RP people understand then
*Arawn Spitteler: A documentation question, would be where that documentation is.
*xstorm Radek: and a click on menu system to help define it better
*Torley Linden: xstorm, you're right that people should pay attention to the guidelines... and SL etiquette by extension. What do you mean by "broken down" though? Simplified? For rules of conduct, we have the Community Standards, which is less about legalese.
*Jeremy Linden: Our focus at this office hour is largely on documentation for Second Life, and various ways to help new Residents help themselves. We may know a little about other special projects, but we're best suited to our own area of expertise :-)
*Torley Linden: Well-said Jeremy.
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*Torley Linden: PazDinero, what are you trying to do?
*xstorm Radek: well this will fit in
*Torley Linden: Daniel I'm honored by your set. My eyes feel good!
*Arawn Spitteler: Help on menus would be handy. I've something on About Land, where I could use the lacking documentation to file a Jira
*Daniel Voyager: :)
*PazDinero Galaxy: Thanks, Torley. I'd like to know how to re-export textures once I've uploaded them to SL. BTW-- loved the deadshot feature in your animoto slideshow!
*xstorm Radek: the TOS needs quick tip to help people coming in to SL
*Torley Linden: General guideline: if you hear something from someone and they have no Linden source, don't consider it true until they can substantiate it. Otherwise, it's most likely a rumor... creative writing... myth. =)
*Arawn Spitteler: Someone recently resolved one of my jiras as "Expected Behaviour," without refering to the documentation for that unexpectedly expected behaviour.
*Torley Linden: PazDinero, if you have all permissions to a texture (e.g., you uploaded it), then File menu > Save Texture As.
*Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4002
*Marianne McCann was happy to close some of her JIRAs the other day, because they were finally fixed
*Torley Linden: PazDinero, see the link Jeremy just pasted too oh yeahh.
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*Jeremy Linden: Arawn, do you have a link to the JIRA you think should have been better-documented?
*PazDinero Galaxy: Torley -- thanks, that should work. But I don't suppose there's anyway to read the texture files saved in the SL cache on my C drive?
*PazDinero Galaxy: Thanks for the link, Jeremy
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): PazDinero Galaxy has pinged you.
*Arawn Spitteler: Wow, talk about privilege; Phillip doesn't seem to have Marianne's level.
*Jeremy Linden: No problem!
*Becky Pippen: Paz, see IM.
*Arawn Spitteler: I don't know how to search for my own jiras
*Torley Linden: There are ways to reverse-engineer but, but due to that being a quandrary for abuse (someone unscrupulous copying restricted-perms textures), PazDinero, I don't have a how-to on that.
*Torley Linden: And you're welcome re: Animoto. Always like sharing cool tools. :)
*xstorm Radek: well i will go now have a good day
*Laura Ophelia: I was wondering what new feature LL is working on to make our lives in sl even better and more beuriful ?
*Tourmaline Falken: Bye xstorm
*Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, xstorm.
*Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4692 <-Arawn
*xstorm Radek: a honor
*Crap Mariner: the revamp of the debug settings wiki page is nice. going to go through all those tonight over dinner.
*Tu Cao: same for me, my question was asked so im outta here ^.^take care every1
*Crap Mariner: ty for doing that
*Torley Linden: Crap, oh, yeah, Rand did nice on that.
*Crap Mariner: i've always wanted to see a full listeing and the impact of each item
*Marianne McCann: Ya, Crap. That's gonna be someting to digest for sure.
*PazDinero Galaxy: Thanks, Torley. just lookin' for a fast way to grab my textures.
*Torley Linden: =)
*Marianne McCann: There's some I use regularly. Like RenderTreeLOD.
*Torley Linden: I always like seeing wiki pages being initiated by someone, then continually revised into the future.
*Kate Linden: Yes, Torley and I have been working on Advanced Menu articles. Rand went ahead and reformatted the Debug Settings page. It looks great :)
*Torley Linden: Mmmm particle hearts. Or shall they be called... HEARTICLES?
*Pachuma Speedwell: lol
*Qie Niangao: oh, wow! this debug setting wiki page is a gold mine! Yum!
*Tourmaline Falken: lol qie
*Tourmaline Falken: can I have the link for that to go straight to it?
*Johan Yugen: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Settings
*Tourmaline Falken: please
*Torley Linden: Yeah so if ya like the Debug Settings revamp send an IM to Rand too, we're passing your good words on as well. ;D
*Torley Linden: Hee hee!
*Tourmaline Falken: ty
*Nicholas Hawthorne: hi all
*Kate Linden: Yes, and ask for his bear too lol
*Johan Yugen: Just looking at it myself, looks rather awesome
*Qie Niangao: I was just looking at the Advanced menu today, thinking: I don't know what half this stuff even is.
*Tourmaline Falken: Hi Nicholas
*Torley Linden: Remember that many of those are the same as regular Preferences (or can go beyond Prefs' range), just not as openly exposed or sensibly arranged in the UI.
*Torley Linden: But there are many, many HIDDEN TREASURES. MuhahahahaHA.
*Johan Yugen: There's a few things on the Advance menu that I change every time I re-install a viewer :)
*Johan Yugen: Advanced*
*Torley Linden: What are your faves, Johan?
*Torley Linden: I do the same.
*Kate Linden: Qie, Torley and I are working on a top ten Advanced Menu article for now. Article plus Video tutorials combined. It's a good start. :) These features are not supported however.
*Reed Wylder: Disable Camera Constraints
*Arawn Spitteler: Schizo Permia, resolved but a problem. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3816
*Reed Wylder: High Rez Snapshot
*Johan Yugen: Run Multiple Threads is a good one, seems to up FPS a little on my box, obviously would only have an effect on multi-core machines
*Reed Wylder: Quiet snapshot to disk
*Jeremy Linden: For me, it's Disable Camera Constraints, Limit Select Distance, and sometimes Mouse Smoothing.
*Tourmaline Falken: I like Character - show look at
*Johan Yugen: That and Disable Camera Constraints, AFK on Idle (gets turned off)
*Reed Wylder: I use that one a lot too Tourmaline
*Crap Mariner: Hide Selected is my fave for snapshots.
*Marianne McCann uses quiet snapshot a lot
*Qie Niangao: Thanks, Kate. I mean, e.g., "Reload personal setting overrides"... very high billing on that menu, but I've no clue why I'd want to do such a thing.
*Leaving god mode, level 200
*Kate Linden: Tourma, that one is on our top ten list :)
*Crap Mariner: Very useful for removing microphones from in front of performers
*Marianne McCann: Crap - Mine too. Hide Selected has made many a photo so much nicer
*Arawn Spitteler doesn't have to reset most of those, every time he changes RC
*Tourmaline Falken: :D Kate
*Torley Linden: A lot of those are very handy for snapshots/machinima/art.
*Can't rez object 'Camera Tracking Arrow v1.2' at { 23.5215, 156.928, 33.788 } on parcel 'Chat about SL tips & tricks with Doc Team on Wed. @ 1 PM PST' in region Beaumont because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land owne
*Crap Mariner: You were the one who told me about it, MM ;)
*Can't rez object 'Camera Tracking Arrow v1.2' at { 29.6729, 143.136, 26.0781 } on parcel 'Chat about SL tips & tricks with Doc Team on Wed. @ 1 PM PST' in region Beaumont because the owner of this land does not allow it. Use the land tool to see land own
*Reed Wylder: How does that one work?
*Entering god mode, level 200
*Camera Tracking Arrow v1.2: Command list: "camera die", "camera freeze".
*Tourmaline Falken: Yes I do disable camera restraints and quiet snapshot to disk
*Torley Linden: Which one, Reed?
*Leaving god mode, level 200
*Marianne McCann: I was? Wow... I guess I am good for something after all
*Marianne McCann giggles
*Reed Wylder: Hide Selected
*Entering god mode, level 200
*Pachuma Speedwell: where is that in menu?
*Johan Yugen: It stops rendering whatever object you currently have selected (IIRC, I don't use it)
*Camera Tracking Arrow v1.2: Command list: "camera die", "camera freeze".
*Torley Linden: Advanced menu > Rendering > Hide Selected , then select an object as you normally would, e.g., right-click it.
*Torley Linden: You can select multiple objects too.
*Kate Linden: We also tested Allow Select Avatar, which is a cool setting, except it works when you have mod permissions from the avatar you are moving on your local machine, and on your own avatar.
*Camera Tracking Arrow v1.2: Command list: "camera die", "camera freeze".
*Reed Wylder: Ah I see cool
*Pachuma Speedwell: ty
*Kate Linden: Nice camera pointer Jeremy :)
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Kate Linden has pinged you.
*Reed Wylder: Not as neat as a visual mute feature would be tho :0
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. Not really, Kate. It's either broken, or someone was holding it in edit mode.
*Johan Yugen: I was about to say, total prevention of rendering of avatars would be really nice
*Arawn Spitteler: Visual Mute should dysanimate, to stop the pole dancing.
*Torley Linden: Yeah Reed, Hide Selected... if it persisted and was more configurable... would be akin to visual mute.
*Torley Linden: And some open-source viewers HAVE experimented with extending that, with varying degrees of success.
*Reed Wylder: Would be nice on mainland sometimes LOL
*Simon Kline gave you Camera Follower Tester with desist!.
*PazDinero Galaxy: Great session folks! As always, watch out for sculpty zombies! PEACE! PAX!
*SLB Wirefly: sorry for going off topic, i have a question about the premium account and the first 512sqm of land. when going to buy that land, in order to get the privilege of the free tier, does it have to be in mainland and owned by Governor Linden? and does it have to be of 117 prims? thanks
*Torley Linden: Have a good one PazDinero, we'll keep our brains safe!
*Jeremy Linden: Hey Rand!
*Qie Niangao: Oh, there's Rand! Yay!
*Kate Linden: SLB yes it needs to be mainland.
*Arawn Spitteler: Premium allows purchase of Mainland; so you don't need it, for leasing Estate Subdivisions.
*Marianne McCann: Hi Rand! We was all jes talkin about ya!
*Johan Yugen: SLB, any mainland regardless of its previous owner
*Kate Linden: Hi Rand
*Allison Widdershins: well not YOU per se, but those interesting bubbles all over you ;)
*Nicholas Hawthorne wonders why daniel is a watermelon
*Nicholas Hawthorne looks at torley's duck
*SLB Wirefly: ah i see, thanks, and it's about 512sqm regardless the number of prims?
*Rand Linden: Oh? No one using voice?
*Daniel Voyager: lol
*Kate Linden: We're using text Rand
*Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*Tourmaline Falken bats at Torley's duck
*Torley Linden: Our office hours are text chat almost always.
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. Actually always. We like to keep logs :-)
*Marianne McCann: "Why a duck?"
*Arawn Spitteler: Voice has some limitations for Transcription and internationalization.
*Torley Linden: By "almost" I mean when someone decides to do a voice shout-out and we reply in text... @_@
*Rand Linden: Lol...OK
*Daniel Voyager: Hey Rand
*Rand Linden: Hi!
*Qie Niangao: (SLB, yeah, it's 512 tier... and you can even squeeze in an extra 48 sq.m. by donating the tier to group and buying the land for group... if desperate enough)
*Marianne McCann: Super job on the debug stuff, Rand!
*Daniel Voyager: Torley, do you like this av? :D
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :D
*Rand Linden: Thanks, Marianne!
*Torley Linden: I cannot stress the importance enough of letting Lindens personally know what you'd like to see them do more... not just general stuff but specifics like this. Both encouraging and very helpful to making your Second Life happier.
*Rand Linden: BTW, I'll be working on the wiki quite a bit...
*Torley Linden: Daniel hahahaha I haven't worn that one yet but I have a copy.
*Daniel Voyager: Cool
*Rand Linden: Mostly on developer docs, API stuff, etc
*Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5198 This article includes a tier chart and info about Premium account 512 land purchase.
*Daniel Voyager: Orman OL01 Torley avatar ^_^
*Marianne McCann: Gettin called away (busy day for me)
*Marianne McCann: Have fun, everybuggy!
*Torley Linden: In my limited experience, were it not for the positive feedback I got for the very first video tutorials, I wouldn't have continued (or been able to substantiate) work on them to my managers at the time.
*Qie Niangao: have fun, Mari
*Kate Linden: Nice to see you Marianne
*Allison Widdershins: see you
*Torley Linden: Happy travels Mari!
*Marianne McCann: You too!
*Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
*Rand Linden: Bye!
*Torley Linden: Congratz again on yer VDay findings!
*Tourmaline Falken: How did the hug and kiss a Linden day go??
*Tourmaline Falken: I couldnt make it :(
*Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*Torley Linden: It was very very exciting apparently. Lots of happy snapshots shared too.
*Daniel Voyager: Changes into a Watermelon bear
*Torley Linden: http://www.flickr.com/groups/slebrate/
*Jeremy Linden couldn't make it this year either. :-(
*Tourmaline Falken: yeah that pesky RL ...
*Johan Yugen couldn't make that either, was about 150 miles away from my PC :P
*SLB Wirefly: thanks i'll take a look, i haven't find any info about the prims and possible object bonus in those parcels, i'll read again :)
*Qie Niangao: I really think the wiki is fabulously valuable... I just wish there were a better way to know what's available in it. (Partially, it helps to use google site search... but it's not obvious always that one should search that content.)
*Rand Linden: Qie...excellent point
*Rand Linden: One thing I want to do is put a Google search box right on the wiki sidebar
*Qie Niangao: yes! that will help!
*Rand Linden: It's not hard to do....just have to corral the right people
*Jeremy Linden: Qie, that's actually my biggest dissatisfaction with wikis in general. They're a great place to store and collaborate on information, but you essentially need to know that an article exists in order to find it.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :)
*Qie Niangao: and I'll keep linking people into it from the forums, when I know there's something there to reference.
*Jaymes Kjeller: Jeremy, yeah, that's a pain. :(
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jaymes Kjeller has pinged you.
*Arawn Spitteler always wondered, how to look up correct spelling, in a dictionary
*Rand Linden: Jeremy--it doesnt have to be that way...with a decent search funciton and good organization it can be much easier
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Rand Linden has pinged you.
*Rand Linden: Google provides suggested corrections!
*Rand Linden: If you are close enough
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. I believe you, Rand. Google makes a big difference, and some of our existing portals do a good job, too.
*Qie Niangao: yes, hehehe: I can't spell without google and firefox anymore. :o
*Torley Linden: I remember when web browser autocomplete first came into being...
*Torley Linden: I was so whoa'ed out.
*Tourmaline Falken: lol
*Tourmaline Falken is now mezmerized by Torley's duck
*Torley Linden: I'm a HYPNODUCK. Haha.
*Reed Wylder: LOL
*Torley Linden: Nicholas looks wise. But then again, I often think owls are.
*Tourmaline Falken: I am getting verrry sleeeeeepy
*Kate Linden: How many of you go to the KB for info first? How many go to the wiki first?
*Johan Yugen: I usually go to the Wiki first
*Allison Widdershins: KB first
*Nicholas Hawthorne waits for the duck to pas near him, then pounces on it, and eats it
*Johan Yugen: If I can't find it there, then KB
*SLB Wirefly: i go to the wiki first
*Nicholas Hawthorne: pass*
*Reed Wylder: Wiki
*SLB Wirefly: yup
*Arawn Spitteler: NCI Scripters, first
*Daniel Voyager: Wiki first
*Kate Linden: If you go to the KB first, do you usually find what you are looking for?
*Allison Widdershins: 50% of the time
*Allison Widdershins: ish
*Reed Wylder: Yeah most of the time
*Rand Linden: Maybe what we REALLY need is a single search for both KB and wiki....
*Kate Linden: If you go to the wiki first, is it because your topic is more advanced then what we have in the KB or another reason?
*Torley Linden: We like to be apprised of knowledge gaps... when you EXPECT to find something, especially if it's obvious, but don't.
*Allison Widdershins: when I go to the Wiki first and FIND what I'm after, sometimes I just fee lucky
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. I'd be all for that, Rand. As soon as we can Google-search the KB :-)
*Torley Linden: Rand, a long time ago we did an experiment with Google Custom Search but that was on pre-Parature Lore system.
*Johan Yugen: I just prefer the Wiki, seems like a better layout to me
*Torley Linden: If our forums were opened up to the public (without logging in) then searching then easier would also be possible than vBulletin's own.
*SLB Wirefly: actually for me it depends on what i'm looking for, land/account issues i have been using KB first, for other things the wiki
*Torley Linden: Tough when the info EXISTS but it's just so darned hard to locate it.
*Arawn Spitteler'd expect to find a description for each menu entry, but doesn't
*Qie Niangao: Torley, will the Forums keep using vBulletin after the Grand Unified Blog/Forums Thingy happens?
*Kate Linden: Arawn in the KB?
*Rand Linden: Jeremy...Google search of KB works for me!
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Rand Linden has pinged you.
*Arawn Spitteler: How do I look up About Land -> Media -> Spacial Sound Restrictions?
*Rand Linden: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Asupport.secondlife.com+inventory&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
*Reed Wylder: Have to fly everyone! Have a great day! Nice meeting you all!
*Reed Wylder: Bye!
*Allison Widdershins: bye bye :)
*Tourmaline Falken: Bye Reed
*Torley Linden: HEYY good point Rand. That must've changed; wish the titles were article titles.
*Jeremy Linden: Huh!
*Rand Linden: bye!
*Rand Linden: The results don't look great, but perhaps because my search term was a single common word...
*Jeremy Linden: If that works... I wonder what else we could get at via scripts now? :-D
*Torley Linden: Qie, eventually, the hope is "no", but I'm not directly involved on that. We do want to preserve relevant info until the transition is completed... it'll be a gradual one.
*Torley Linden: Ta Reed!
*Torley Linden: So both the vBulletin forum and older blog will be around awhile, at least.
*Torley Linden: (In content, not necessarily form.)
*Qie Niangao: thanks, Torelye... so I guess not happening Real Soon Now.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: brb a sec
*Torley Linden: No, it won't be an overnight thing.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: afk
*Torley Linden: Haha Daniel you've morphed into all the avies you showed me.
*Torley Linden: I've got to wear those soon... they're all so cute.
*Kate Linden: If you do search in the KB and it takes a few attempts to find an article, changing your search terms, we'd love to hear from you letting us know what your original search criteria was.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: bk
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :)
*Daniel Voyager: yep
*Allison Widdershins: k
*Tourmaline Falken: wb
*Tourmaline Falken: wow is this silence I am not hearing?
*Qie Niangao: one good thing about the KB is that the content is "Linden official"... but one good thing about the wiki is that it includes resident-generated content, too.
*Torley Linden: It's like a rest between notes.
*Allison Widdershins: like a Friends Meeting
*Kate Linden: Thank you Daniel :)
*Tourmaline Falken: ah
*Daniel Voyager: Welcome
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. Would you say that the difference in the type of information in the wiki vs. the KB sometimes motivates your choice to search one or the other?
*Arawn Spitteler: Friends Meeting House, 10AM, Saturdays at Sea Turtle Island
*Allison Widdershins: :)
*Torley Linden: Yes Qie, and bridges between the two. Like when certain wiki articles are approved and graduate to KB status. I think Jon put it best, and I paraphrase, something to the tune of "Complementary in this ecosystem".
*Qie Niangao: well... for example, I'm always going to the wiki for the office hours schedule and stuff from LDPW (like the roadmaps)
*Qie Niangao: i really wouldn't expect that content in the KB
*Nicholas Hawthorne looks around, and wonders where jon is
*Torley Linden: Wiki is great for dumping raw ideas down quickly and refining it later.
*Jeremy Linden: Jon's really really busy today, Nicholas. If he's not here next week, we'll have to force teleport him or something :-)
*Tourmaline Falken: Jon couldnt make it apparently because he was in a sticky situation ... ;)
*Ellla McMahon: why is there no link on the JIRA home page to Knowledge Base .. something like "help with Common problems"
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :) haha, i could see him doing that
*Jeremy Linden: That's a good idea, Ellla!
*Torley Linden: You know those experiments where they leave food somewhere and do a time-lapse video of insects eating it all up? That's kind of like how the wiki iterates, only... "insects" is not meant in a bad way. ;)
*Kate Linden: Great point Ellla
*Arawn Spitteler: Jira needs a protocol to link beyond Jira
*Jeremy Linden: We tried to mitigate some of that JIRA traffic by saying PJIRA is "not for support-type issues", but a link to the KB (or Support Portal) is a perfect extra step.
*Qie Niangao: hehehe: well, the Jira is specially designed to be intimidating, so anybody there has already abandoned all hope. :p
*Arawn Spitteler: Within Jira, references are mutual
*Nicholas Hawthorne: graa, i get wierd stuff happening sometimes when i play sl :(
*Nicholas Hawthorne: brb
*Nicholas Hawthorne: afk
*Ellla McMahon: possibly 50% of issues have some reference to a KB article .. and if the reporter issue is a common one and not mentioned in Knowledge Base then that indicates a need for an article :))
*Jeremy Linden: Hmm... I wonder if there's a good way to track that kind of thing automatically.
*Kate Linden: Yes, maybe there should be a link to submitting a KB Suggestion ticket.
*Jeremy Linden: I've been thinking it would probably be a good idea to comb PJIRA for potential new articles. It's the place where people go when they think something's missing :-)
*Ellla McMahon: to start with people need to know KB exists
*Qie Niangao: actually... hmmm... if folks posted first in Resident Answers forum, they'd probably get a pointer either to Jira (if it's really a defect) or KB/wiki (if it's documented feature)
*Jeremy Linden: So far, the issue has been personal bandwidth on the part of our team. If we had some way of flagging those JIRA tasks that could use KB articles, it would really help us get things rolling.
*Torley Linden: It's the ongoing dilemma of doing stuff vs. communicating about what you're doing. :)
*Kate Linden: We hope our new blog will help us promote the KB also.
*Allison Widdershins: sound
*Allison Widdershins: sounds like Torley just invented Twitter :)
*Jeremy Linden: Side question- Do people have trouble posting links to KB articles, or has our workaround found its way into SL culture?
*Arawn Spitteler: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3816 needs a reference to expected behaviour but, whether that behaviour is described in KB is something I don't know.
*Torley Linden: Haha Allison, well that explains in part why I'm so fond of it.
*Allison Widdershins: :D
*Torley Linden: Great Q Jeremy. (Something we should ask on the blog too.)
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*Becky Pippen: the workaround is too hard for many people to remember, so it's not getting used
*Torley Linden: Hey! That workaround should be on the MOTD eh?
*Becky Pippen: good idea!
*Jeremy Linden: I feared as much, Becky. I really wish we could "just fix it" :-/
*Jaymes Kjeller: It might also cut down on the number of JIRA issues that are filed and marked as "Contact support" or the like. It might improve bugfixing in the best-case.
*Arawn Spitteler doesn't recall, how to address the Forum
*Torley Linden: We've found a MOTD at least gets 4,000+ views for a KB article.
*Qie Niangao: Arawn: http://forums.secondlife.com/forumdisplay.php?f=327 for a start.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: bk
*Tourmaline Falken: wb
*Daniel Voyager: wb
*Johan Yugen: wb
*Kate Linden: It's easier if you make a keyboard shortcut with the generic article link https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=XXXX
*Jeremy Linden: Tourma, mic's open :-)
*Kate Linden: then just add the article numbers where the four XXXX's are
*Tourmaline Falken: sorry must have hit a key
*Kate Linden: or use Gestures for articles
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :)
*Kate Linden: KB 5402 How to link to Knowledge Base articles
*Kate Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5402
*Torley Linden: Text macros are one of those things that have a fair amount of friction to getting setup, but once you're doing them, you'll save so much time and trouble... and wonder how you ever lived without them.
*Jeremy Linden: Arawn, the KB article that describes the issue in your JIRA appears to be http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4107
*Jaymes Kjeller: What really would be nice is a friendly URL for articles, the long ones can really be bothersome.
*Allison Widdershins: kbase.secondlife.com?
*Arawn Spitteler: They also refer by number
*Jaymes Kjeller: @Jeremy: That explains those weird letters that I see on Torley's video tuorials when he has a prim selected.
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jaymes Kjeller has pinged you.
*Jeremy Linden: It also explains "I rezzed an object I received and took it back into my Inventory, and the permissions changed! Why?"
*Torley Linden: Jaymes, there, mystery solved! I leave them on because I constantly find myself using them.
*Kate Linden: Allison we have a short URL to the KB, secondlife.com/kb
*Torley Linden: Yes! The blessed short URL as scrawled into our hill!
*Kate Linden: but each article is within Parature and needs to be linked by topic number
*Allison Widdershins: shorter than mine I stand corrected :
*Torley Linden: I would've grabbed tr.im/kb too but someone already took that, gosh darnit!
*Jaymes Kjeller: Alas, only the programmers of the KB software can fully make it possible.
*Jeremy Linden: There is very little that I would love more than readable links to KB articles, too... The only reason we don't have them is that we aren't the ones who developed the Support software we're using. We have to wait on Parature to work with us to make changes.
*Torley Linden: *the clock strikes* It is now 2:04 PM PST...
*Allison Widdershins: yeah... so many Lindens so little time
*Torley Linden: and despite our struggles we remain hopeful!
*Arawn Spitteler: Looks like I'll have to reopen that Jira, since that article didn't describe total chaos as expected behaviour.
*Torley Linden: Thanks to each & all for being with us, Linden Lab's Documentation Team, at today's office hour chat session hangout thang.
*Becky Pippen: Thanks guys!
*Jaymes Kjeller: Ah yes, Jeremy. We can only hope that Parature can do it...
*WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jaymes Kjeller has pinged you.
*Tourmaline Falken: Thanks all :)
*Torley Linden: Another awaits next week, same time and place!
*Jeremy Linden: Arawn, the subheading "I rezzed an object I received and took it back into my Inventory, and the permissions changed! Why?" appears to address exactly the behavior you described. Am I wrong?
*Torley Linden: Also, stay tuned for more community fun in the form of DUNK A LINDEN coming soon... ;D
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :D
*Torley Linden: And those NEW BLOGS tomorrow! http://blog.secondlife.com , don't forget. XD
*Tourmaline Falken: yay ... I'll be first in line to dunk your duck Torley!!
*Daniel Voyager: Yay!
*Tourmaline Falken: lol
*Jeremy Linden: Heh. I'll have to get out my scuba gear and flippers for dunk-a-Linden.
*Arawn Spitteler: I'd better describe again, because I'd set the perms before taking the object into inventory, and got two differrent perm sets after rezzing.
*Kate Linden: Keep an eye on the blog over the next two days. As Blue announced, we will be launching this week :)
*Nicholas Hawthorne: :)
*Torley Linden: Assuming I'm still a duck. Maybe I'll be a robot and s-s-s-s-shortt-CiRcUIT!!!@@#@##@#@#
*Allison Widdershins: yay
*Daniel Voyager: lol
*Tourmaline Falken: lol
*Nicholas Hawthorne: or a watermelon
*Kate Linden: oh and on our TNT blog, comments will be open :)
*Arawn Spitteler: Second Water isn't wet, and tends to be computer friendlyl.
*Torley Linden: We welcome thy feedback and shall respond in kind.
*Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*Torley Linden: I'm going to continue my video editing adventures, bai 4 nao!
*Tourmaline Falken: Bye Torley
*Nicholas Hawthorne: bye
*Allison Widdershins: toodles Torley
*Kate Linden: Great to see all of you. :)
*Allison Widdershins: see you all again
*Jaymes Kjeller: See you all.
*SLB Wirefly: byes and thanks :)
*Naples John: bye now and thanks
*Tourmaline Falken: Bye everyone
*Torley Linden: Toodlelicious for the here and now.
*Torley Linden: N A M A S T E
*Allison Widdershins: :D
*Kate Linden: See you next week :)
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Category: Documentation Office Hours