Open Source Meeting/2010-05-20

== Agenda Thursday, 20 May 2010 ==
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# The 1.23.5 source code download links are broken again. Can the code be move to a "real" server?
# Left over topics from Tuesday, May 18
## Can there be a way for folks to donate $L to non LL paid developers that work on snowglobe?
## llrobla V2.0/replacment update
## Progress on SL7B snowglobe display?
# Build instructions overhaul
#* People have now had some time to add missing stuff to :Category:Compiling viewer, so we can see what's already documented.
#* How to proceed?
# What is the difference between "channel" (VIEWER_CHANNEL) and "login_channel" (VIEWER_LOGIN_CHANNEL)? Snowglobe defaults to "CommunityDeveloper".
## What channel name should be used?
## Does the TPV covers this?
## Can the answers be put on the wiki?
=== Jira Issues ===
# Looks like r3349 will be reverted. Do these still need discussion (e.g. for viewer-external)?:
## Changeset 3349 added unit test to llplugin but forgot LL_TESTS, resulting in a build failure in lltut.cpp
## Tries to build pulseaudio when pulseaudio not found.
## Standalone build failure r3349, cmake error on SLPlugin
## Bulding of integration_tests when not needed
## Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
# Unscheduled SNOW issues triage: would be good to go with the community through those and decide for some what we should take immediately (2.0 or 1.4) or later.
== Transcript ==
[13:58]	:	Hi Merov
[13:58]	:	hi meowrov :)
[13:58]	:	In rl I am sitting on a cane chair, but still doing ok :)
[13:58]	:	`hey merov
[13:58]	:	hu guys
[13:58]	:	Hi Merov
[13:58]	:	I meant: *hi*
[13:58]	:	so when is oz getting here
[13:58]	:	Imprudence does have Emerald's body physics, yeah. I was quite shocked when I saw it for the first time a couple of months ago. Hadn't seen it on Emerald for some reason.
[13:59]	:	"body physics"?
[13:59]	:	tada!
[13:59]	:	Oh yeah, we'd like to see Oz :-)
[13:59]	 	waves
[13:59]	:	Boob physics, or whatever they call it
[13:59]	:	Yes...fresh meat shows up. :-)
[13:59]	:	Hello Oz!
[13:59]	:	Hi oz
[13:59]	:	Hi everyone
[13:59]	:	Oz, has anyone asked you for a bear yet? :)
[13:59]	:	Hi Oz.
[13:59]	:	and here is : the great Oz!
[13:59]	:	:)
[13:59]	:	Hi Oz. Welcome to Merov's madhouse :P
[13:59]	:	The Great and Powerful
[13:59]	:	I guess that answers some questions readily :)
[14:00]	 	checks out the profile.
[14:00]	:	Oh dear...he on AW Groupies allready.
[14:00]	:	No profile. Must be a noob
[14:00]	:	well, I don't think I rate the Powerful yet
[14:00]	:	hey oz
[14:00]	:	We have an agenda of course
[14:00]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:01]	:	Yep, Oz is on Groupies too. Commiserations, Oz ^_^
[14:01]	:	But may be Oz wants to intro himself? Coupe of wrods for the crowd Oz?
[14:01]	 	can't type today
[14:01]	:	I'm looking forward to getting to know all of you much better
[14:01]	:	wrods are OK among friends.
[14:02]	:	and making some magic happen
[14:02]	:	Cool!
[14:02]	:	Thanks Oz
[14:02]	:	or mabey even getting it 'rocking' :p
[14:02]	:	Back to the agenda
[14:02]	:	You know magic? That'll be useful!
[14:02]	:	Topic 1. Merov's update
[14:03]	:	Well, I think it's pretty clear what I've been up to this past few days:
[14:03]	:	Oz, there is also an IRC channel that receives the groupies messages via a bridge, in case you don't want to have a viewer running you can still monitor the chatter
[14:03]	 	< old oz man fan
[14:03]	:	porting passed 1.x patches to 2.0
[14:03]	:	Oz: and we're looking forward to your support of all things Open Source. We really had a soft spot for Rob, you have a big role to fill. :-)
[14:03]	:	I'm trying to get that atrix all blue :)
[14:04]	 	whispers to morgain you might want to retract those claws :p
[14:04]	:	I know some of you guys are working on the "Major features port
[14:04]	:	How is this going for you guys?
[14:04]	:	No claws here. Blue kitties use force field effectors.
[14:04]	 	means Robin and Thickbrick here
[14:04]	 	hasn't seen Pixel in a while
[14:05]	 	takes a sit quietly
[14:05]	:	I'm actualy up and running again, linux builds work again and my laptop is again functional so i can start to make progress
[14:05]	:	\o/
[14:06]	:	I haven't started on porting the google translation yet.
[14:06]	:	I'll be updating the matrix as I go this week
[14:06]	:	hey open and eddi
[14:06]	:	Hey ㋡
[14:06]	:	hey all
[14:06]	:	please edit it so we don't do double work
[14:06]	 	grabs a link for ths matrix
[14:06]	:	hey eddi :)
[14:06]	:	https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgvC7hm5YZqcdHVXb05iTE0wTFc0bWptTW4tOTZuS3c&hl=en
[14:07]	:	hi Drew , how are you? ㋡
[14:07]	:	I may need to pull in JSONCPP for some other stuff I'm going to be doing, so that may ease the path for the translation stuff
[14:07]	:	good to now Aimee
[14:07]	:	Thickbrick did volunteer for that one
[14:08]	:	i need to find out how to turn of the keyboard navigation off
[14:08]	:	SNOW-667
[14:08]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-667 [#SNOW-667] Port of SNOW-93 to SG 2.0 : Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:08]	:	I think it should be mostly straight forward
[14:08]	:	add comment in there Aimee when you do the JSONCPP stuff though I'm sure Thickbrick will notice the commits
[14:09]	:	certainly will
[14:09]	:	BTW, I did the rollback to 2.0.1 as you certainly notice
[14:09]	:	*noticed*
[14:09]	:	Yea. :-)
[14:09]	:	+1 saved me a world of pain for the moment
[14:09]	:	i was going blind diffing assembler
[14:09]	:	me too
[14:10]	:	Techwolf, I just sync'd your overlay and am now rebuilding snowglobe1-svn
[14:10]	:	Robin, I added some info to that jira.
[14:10]	:	diffing assembler: isn't that a wizard skill?
[14:10]	:	:)
[14:10]	:	Tech, it was your dumps i was comparing
[14:10]	:	hehe
[14:10]	:	That a compiler specific problem? 2.0.2 was building fine on Windows.
[14:10]	:	gcc 4.4
[14:10]	:	Robin, that started in 2.0.2?
[14:10]	:	im supprised that no one has starting to use the meta snow-660 and its sub tasks
[14:10]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-660 [#SNOW-660] Compileing Source Code Issues
[14:10]	:	Fell free to add those pastebins to the jira directory. It was easer for me to pastebin it first.
[14:11]	:	Thickbrick, yes appeared to
[14:11]	:	I didn't see it, but I was using a debug build
[14:11]	:	its some static initalisation being optimised away so almost any changes could mask it
[14:11]	:	(gcc 4.4.3)
[14:11]	:	WolfPup, there is a bunch of mine that can been added, but that was for merge that was rolled back.
[14:11]	:	k, I think the work on the 2.0 trunk is clear now and moving
[14:11]	:	good
[14:12]	:	next item on the agenda: 2
[14:12]	:	SNOW-659
[14:12]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-659 [#SNOW-659] Standalone SG2 fails to start, sigsegv in LLFastTimer
[14:12]	:	thats the beasty
[14:12]	:	1.23.5 download bundles
[14:12]	:	i know i closed snow-658 after tuesday's rollback
[14:12]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-658 [#SNOW-658] Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
[14:12]	:	Need to change that title to refect it was not 2.0.1
[14:12]	:	ok: it's not "broken again", I'd say it's "still broken"
[14:13]	:	i.e. I haven't rebuilt that yet
[14:13]	:	er...lag...re:snow-659
[14:13]	:	ok, ok, I will do it ASAP
[14:13]	:	moving to a "real" server won't solve the problem of building this in the first place...
[14:13]	:	shouldn't 1.23.5 use the same artwork and libs packages as SG1.3?
[14:14]	:	I think you're right Thickbrick
[14:14]	:	it should be linked to snow-663 as well since it is a linux issue
[14:14]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-663 [#SNOW-663] Issues Building From Code in Linux OS
[14:14]	:	and I remember saying something to that effect on the list
[14:14]	:	still, I would prefer to build cleanly from the branch as it should be
[14:14]	:	so to avoid any possible side effects
[14:14]	:	Need to check the md5 and 1.23.5 and 1.23.4 artwork/libs and see if they are the same.
[14:15]	:	OK, anyway, that #2 item is squarely on my lap
[14:15]	:	I was able to find copies of the 1.22 artwork and libs to build a TPV viewer the other day, so they are still around somewhere
[14:15]	:	Merov, right now, two ebuilds of mine are broken due to those missing files. Secondlife 1.23.5 and coolviewer due to directory based off of 1.23.5. So i'me no the only affected by it.
[14:16]	:	techwolf, is that Boy Lane's Cool Viewer?
[14:16]	:	OK, understood Techwolf
[14:16]	:	Jonathan, seperate enties.
[14:16]	:	That download page needs an update anyway, for sure
[14:17]	:	next item: 3.1: paying devs to work on Snowglobe
[14:17]	:	interesting subject...
[14:17]	:	as you know, we (LL) have been in the past using Rent-a-coder to get some features done
[14:18]	:	e.g. the SG translator
[14:18]	:	careful of the cans or worms sitting under the table...
[14:18]	 	< is only getting back into codeing but is only working on SG V2
[14:18]	:	that was an experiment that we certainly should resume and formalze
[14:19]	:	but there's a woder question here, it's sponsoring bug fixes by the community, not necessarily LL
[14:19]	:	Merov mis typeed it. "Can there be a way for folks to donate $L to non LL paid developers that work on snowglobe?" My thoughs was about donations and that why I threw it up there last week.
[14:19]	:	that's how I understand "donate $L"
[14:19]	:	I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has an opinion about whether that or some other structure for compensating/motivating contributions is the right one
[14:19]	:	heh,
[14:19]	:	some other FLOSS project have "bounties"
[14:20]	:	we resisted that as it requires some way of managing it
[14:20]	:	but, heck, we have $L so that "should" make things easier
[14:20]	:	mabey 'tip' jars located here some where for those that are willing to spend time working on the code
[14:20]	:	any time there's money involved, one must manage it
[14:20]	:	I think this question is less about something like rent-a-coder and more about tip-jar style donations (like a lot of OS projects have)
[14:21]	:	not tip jars, that clubs. Donation objects may be ok...
[14:21]	:	How would you split it up? Different people put in different amounts of work
[14:21]	:	Well, I'd think that the motivation for contributions is a desire to improve the code, on the part of opensource contributors, they have their own reasons for doing so but financial reward isn't one of them (and if the present quality of contributions to the opensource project is such that the added motivation doesn't seem required I'd say that there's no reason for it, it's an extraneous issue)
[14:22]	:	My query is by no means limited to monetary motivation
[14:22]	:	I could imagine some sort of bounty that just goes into a big reward pool to be split by Hippo Award at the end of the year, or something. Yeah, sefish financial reward isn't a huge motivator, but maybe if it's towards the project as a whole...
[14:22]	:	* selfish
[14:22]	:	The reward might not be the main motivation but it's also a tool to judge how much folks want something, i.e. if you donate to have something fixed, it has real value to you
[14:23]	:	One difference between this project and other floss project is this is a commercial open source project.
[14:23]	:	other motivation I think would work better, recognition of efforts contributed, especially of any opensource contributions that are incorporated into the main SL viewer? sure
[14:23]	:	I doubt if you can generalize what devs want out of an open source project. But given the manpower shortage at LL, I think it's worth the company experimenting with bounties.
[14:24]	:	We have few incentitives beyond getting the contributor name on the credits and in the contribution.txt file
[14:24]	:	I have no idea how to do this, but I would like to point out that the rent-a-coder approach can also backfire, like it did with the bounty on openJPEG optimizations.
[14:24]	:	What happened there, Thick?
[14:24]	:	Were the Hippo awards a good thing, and should I restart them?
[14:24]	 	+1's that idea
[14:25]	:	I'me not failmlair wiht the hippo awards, just know about them. Was they good in the past?
[14:25]	:	I think the rent-a-coder projects were not necessarly that well managed by those who are close to us here now and the remote ness of who was in charge was a negitive factor in some of the set up there
[14:25]	 	nulls the idea of having a $L tipjar attached to IRA records
[14:25]	:	*mulls*
[14:25]	:	hmm those words i wrote read badly
[14:26]	:	i mean the people involved in snowglobe/opensource were not managing the rent-a-coder
[14:26]	:	true Robin, that was an issue I think
[14:26]	:	For IRS issues, going the rent-a-coder route could allive a lot of those IRS issues.
[14:26]	:	Also, it was kinda strange to offer that job at rent-a-coder before even asking the list if someone would want to do it.
[14:27]	:	the lesson is "do things very openly through the opensource-dev channel"
[14:27]	:	I can see bounties addressed to specific JIRA issues/feature requests with community contribution to the total, perhaps?
[14:27]	:	what about the reverse model...
[14:27]	:	what's "IRS"?
[14:27]	:	Tax office
[14:27]	:	Internail Revnues Service the USA
[14:27]	:	interesting Vivienne
[14:28]	:	developer wants to do X, so creates a description and waits for the amount offered to be high enough?
[14:28]	:	That sound like what http://dev.sendlove.us/worklist/worklist.php does
[14:28]	:	indeed Boroondas
[14:28]	:	possibly, or community wants X and offers a bounty with L$ contributed by people who vote for the issue
[14:28]	:	Personally, I think the Hippo Awards would have been good as a secondary reward, but it doesn't make up for rewards like getting those things into the official SL viewer (quickly)
[14:29]	:	Gigs tried something like that a few years ago with his jira tip jars he had here on hippotropolis, donate on the jira you want to be fixed, not sure it worked that well
[14:29]	:	+Celi
[14:29]	:	One problem that will arise is what about the one that fix bugs as they come along? Most of my contrubition are building bug fixes that crop up with merges. Those can't be bidded out.
[14:29]	:	wow! I didn't even know that story Robin
[14:30]	 	contemplates putting out her own tip jar marked "Fix lag"
[14:30]	:	(That's how I remember that too, though it was only 5ish tip jars and a the "full thermometer" level was gigantic...)
[14:30]	:	Glad to hear you say that... getting more contributions in faster is my main goal
[14:30]	 	routs for Oz!
[14:30]	:	well, it obviously wouldn't be for everything, just specific feature requests and buxfixes (say, for instance...I can see a bounty offered on backporting shared media to the 1.x codebase)
[14:30]	:	k, I think we do have some suggestions and thoughts here which is good
[14:31]	:	More generally, getting more contributions that are all used in more viewers.... multiple viewers are good things, but so is sharing
[14:31]	:	Oh, what about the ones that dig into a bug with many hours to figurte out just what is wrong in the first place? Some of jira have hous of troubeshooting on them.
[14:31]	:	Techwolf makes an important point. None of these plans help the devs who constantly fix small non-sexy things.
[14:32]	:	yeah
[14:32]	:	or just hours of trying to reproduce them... that can be more valuable than code
[14:32]	:	True
[14:32]	:	I'm not sure we can create a truly fair market place by fiat
[14:33]	:	some people are working on bugfixes for fun, to learn or hone their skills in C++, for motivations that have little to do with any reward beyond the satisfaction of actually accomplishing something, so...assuming that financial motivation is even necessary for everyone and everything is false I think
[14:33]	:	Anyone who has thoughts on any of this - please send me email (and/or post to the list)
[14:33]	:	or those that decide to become devs because of some small feature that only works behind the scences
[14:33]	:	That's what I meant by sending (some? of the) tips into a pool and redistributing that bit via awards
[14:33]	:	I mean: the work market place out there in RL is not fair too... (anyone checked the paycheck of a teacher?)
[14:33]	:	Yeah. I don't think there's any full solution, Just do what you can, in various areas.
[14:33]	:	Merov, try a car anology. :-)
[14:34]	:	try the paycheck of a computer thecnition for a retail electronics store :'(
[14:34]	:	I guess you could hire *everyone*. That's a complete solution ^_^
[14:34]	:	(old slashdot joke)
[14:34]	:	I'd like to find ways (both monetary and non) to reward and recognize all kinds of contributions, and to make the community a part of the feedback system that directs those rewards
[14:35]	:	You don't pick easy tasks, Oz :-)
[14:35]	:	i need to reconnect, give just few min ㋡
[14:35]	:	what fun would that be?
[14:35]	 	chuckles
[14:35]	:	true oz
[14:35]	:	WolfPup. SO TRUE!!. That why I drove a truck for many year. I got paid a hell a lot more just driving a truck then I ever got paid for any compuyter work. Currenlty un-employyed and been looking for months for a job.
[14:35]	:	I think you're right Oz
[14:35]	:	visibility to contributors is also a good incentive, not easy to shape though
[14:36]	 	< is a RL Computer Technition working for one of those retail electronics stores
[14:36]	:	k, I thin we've *plenty* for Oz to think about :)
[14:36]	:	Being able to point out your name in the help about box does give one some satafaction.
[14:36]	:	may be we should move down the agenda
[14:37]	 	waves quickly to Oz. Welcome. :)
[14:37]	:	3.2: robla's replacement: he's sitting right next to me! :)
[14:37]	:	\o/
[14:37]	:	WolfPup, where and are they hiring? I'be getting to the point of whoring myslelf out now. :-/
[14:37]	 	waves to Jacek :-)
[14:37]	:	3.3 SL7B:
[14:37]	:	i placed the application
[14:38]	:	that's a good one
[14:38]	:	excellent!
[14:38]	:	thanks Robin
[14:38]	:	no they actualy cut my hours have me working < 36hrs a wk
[14:38]	:	How can we (collectively) help?
[14:38]	:	Merov, can I chew on him to break him in? ;-)
[14:39]	 	hints Oz to turn God Power on... quick!...
[14:39]	:	Looks well broken in already. Look at that 'tache :P
[14:39]	 	suspects Tech is auditioning for the role of Toto
[14:39]	:	heh
[14:40]	:	o_O
[14:40]	:	k, Robin, what about helping for SL7B
[14:40]	:	?
[14:40]	:	:-)
[14:40]	:	We need some ideas of what to actually exhibit
[14:41]	:	a big honking snowglobe prim?
[14:41]	:	screen shots of code?
[14:41]	:	hehe
[14:41]	:	i prefer Thickbricks line of thinking ;-)
[14:41]	:	Not the crash log, please. Conveys the wrong message
[14:41]	:	I think a feature list and a "how can I join" thing
[14:41]	:	The Mega MAtrix of Stuff in Snowglobe
[14:41]	:	Some of the code would drive them to madness, Lovecraft style.
[14:41]	:	Hehe
[14:41]	:	we need the Uncle Phillip needs you poster
[14:42]	:	There was a big Snowglobe lying around on this island I recall
[14:42]	:	Merov, by snowglobe was not very good
[14:42]	:	^back, sorry ㋡
[14:42]	:	*my
[14:42]	:	the new logo is also better
[14:42]	:	someone game to create a 3D version of it?
[14:42]	:	but harder to rebuild in 3D
[14:43]	:	that's a challenge!
[14:43]	:	Jacek, I thought you'd see Lovecraftian code as a good thing
[14:43]	:	i'm no builder, i can code and script but not sculpt and build
[14:43]	:	same here
[14:43]	:	Actually, what WOULD go down well is a *visionary* statement about the role of Open Source in SL. The community has been a bit embattled in recent times, and spirits are not as high as they were.
[14:43]	:	if it ain't C++, I ain't touch it...
[14:43]	:	couldnb
[14:44]	:	btw ... is snowglobe 2 still using the SL logo, or should I re-download artwork?
[14:44]	:	I'm sure Oz's position on this would be nice
[14:44]	:	I'll see what I can do to draft that, Morgain
[14:44]	:	same logo Boroondas
[14:44]	:	\o/
[14:44]	:	could you not import th snoglobe icon inworld a nd use it as a texture for particle 'snow' fallong around the display?
[14:44]	:	Aww, Merov, I was gonna bug you about some python script issues with building package in Snowglobe 1.4.0
[14:44]	:	(Re-download artwork, I'm seeing the snowglobe logo and not the SL one)
[14:45]	:	Snowglobe 1.x and 2.x are using a different logo as far as I know? A snowflake on a blue sphere
[14:45]	:	i have that one as well and im building v2 of snowglobe
[14:45]	:	Vivienne: 1.3 and 2.0 use the same logo
[14:45]	:	Now that was one clear success from renta-designer --- what a lovely SG logo we have.
[14:46]	:	SG 1.1 I recall used the robla's snowglobe...
[14:46]	:	Morgaine, witch one?
[14:46]	:	yeah
[14:47]	:	one thing though: now that's it's official we'll be on SL7B, may be we should email opensource-dev
[14:47]	:	Tech: the one top-right here -- http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe
[14:47]	:	so we get people coming and may be proposing ideas
[14:47]	:	i have a question why is there no pictures during log in if your useing your own build of sg?
[14:48]	:	because a different page is displayed
[14:48]	:	Merov, its only offical when we get a confirmation back about SL7B unless you have insider info
[14:48]	:	Wolfpup : the picture served depends on the viewer-channel and we haven't one for Community Developer
[14:48]	:	Robin: understood
[14:48]	:	Can we get one?
[14:48]	:	+Ardy
[14:49]	:	Odd. Any special reason why it's channel dependent? Should be grid-dependent only, I think
[14:49]	:	would there be a way to redirect it to the main viewers ?
[14:49]	:	Ardy: we should, yes... I don't know who to ask and get that done but I can work on that
[14:49]	:	although you can set the channel to 'Snowglobe Release' in indra/llcommon/llversionviewer.h
[14:49]	:	actualy when i log aditi with this build i get a pic just not on aginin
[14:49]	:	Might be nice to have a line saying where the image was taken, too
[14:50]	:	WolfPup, there is a question that deals with that splash page on login, the channel name. Its later on in the agenda.
[14:50]	:	Morgaine: I think the idea was that you could "brand" your splash screen that way
[14:50]	:	Ah
[14:50]	:	Oh dear, lol, shouldn't conflate channel with branding :P
[14:51]	:	i liked seeing the pick for inworld and miss them
[14:51]	:	There used to be a different login screen for the beta grid, it looked like a wireframe landscape
[14:51]	:	k, we should move down the agenda
[14:51]	:	the idea of adding a slurl to the login screen picture location was discussed before I think, the problem was you'd end up DoSing thata location every time it came up
[14:51]	:	on SL7B: wait till we receive confirmation our booth is accepted, send ideas to Robin and Oz in the meantime
[14:51]	:	4.: build instruction
[14:52]	:	Merov: This idea is keyed off the supplied channel sring -- http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19009
[14:52]	:	[#VWR-19009] Add viewer channel identification to visible tags
[14:52]	:	string*
[14:53]	:	I guess it would need a separate data field, if your idea of branding relies on the channel
[14:53]	 	< has been helping with a wiki page that is specific to viewer 2
[14:53]	:	thanks Morgaine, I didn't know that JIRA
[14:53]	:	on build, I'd like to have a nice, simple first page for building
[14:54]	:	it's kinda hard to have that scatered on numerous pages with various state of completeness
[14:55]	:	so what I'm saying is that we should rewrite the whole main wiki build page from scratch
[14:55]	:	one page to rule them all ("them" being different operating systems)?
[14:55]	:	There seem to be many differing opinions here on what is the ideal build environment what what versions of the viewer to spend time on.
[14:55]	:	As someone who just went through getting set up to compile for the first time I agree wholeheartedly
[14:55]	:	at least one page to cover the easy scenarios for the 3 platforms
[14:55]	:	Just force everyone to use Linux, saves effort on the wiki ^_^
[14:55]	:	im hopeing that can find out how to get things set up so that cmake can generate the needed files for VS2010 as well cause i tried to manualy load in the files and it is a is a big pain in the @$$
[14:55]	:	the ones we build on parabuild: should be more than 3 paragraphs
[14:56]	:	(One of my courses last semester actually had to end up distributing a virutal machine because the dev environment was so difficult... :P )
[14:57]	:	:-(
[14:58]	:	so the "How we proceed?" question answer: one of us has to volunteer to rewrite that build page, cover the "easy" cases, and link to the other pages for the "special" cases
[14:59]	:	Look for a experence wiki editor?
[14:59]	:	...and also test the instructions on a "clean" computer
[14:59]	:	vmware would be good for that Jonathan.
[14:59]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds is getting fairly organized even though it is looking mainly at viewer 2 it could stiill be used for windows envioment in general
[14:59]	:	well, I'm setting up to build on linux and mac for the first time... I'm your test
[14:59]	:	that page for instance is ok but needs to updating and pushing all the "special cases" aside
[14:59]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_Builds
[15:00]	 	must leave to make his train... will catch up on the transcript
[15:00]	:	apt-get source snowglobe2; dpkg-buildpackage ;-p what could be easier ;-)
[15:00]	:	OK Oz: take that page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile
[15:00]	:	Cya Oz
[15:00]	:	Take care Oz, nice to meet you
[15:00]	:	dang i need to getr to aditi
[15:00]	:	darn, he's gone!
[15:00]	:	that was magic!
[15:01]	:	lol
[15:01]	:	Why doesn't he just take a hot air balloon instead of the train?
[15:01]	:	k, well, we didn't cover 5
[15:01]	:	yeah, I'm surprised he needs a train
[15:01]	:	don't look behind that curtain guys!
[15:01]	:	Oops!
[15:02]	:	you'll be telling me there's no father christmas next
[15:02]	:	Hmm.. Building 1.x gets funky on systems with "C:\Program Files(x86)\".
[15:02]	:	I haven't had any issues with that on 64-bit Win 7
[15:02]	:	looks like we're over time already
[15:02]	:	Um... is the Linden Green Hand gone from the screen here?
[15:02]	:	I have Lots of Windows keys so I can probably help test o ut the Windows instrctions
[15:02]	:	there is/was a cmake files bug that hated spaces
[15:02]	:	Seems the path is hardcoded in the package project.
[15:03]	:	you need to make sure Python, Cygwin, and other development tools are in your C drive root
[15:03]	:	[Ick, laggig]
[15:03]	:	Merov, that wiki page at leaset needs to point to various linux repors. Reason I say that is some foolks are looking for a better build and some repros do a better job then self building in some cases.
[15:03]	:	that was a nice into meeting with Oz for sure
[15:03]	:	i remember someone here or on #opensl committed a fix for spaces by quoting paths
[15:03]	:	and put your build files in a folder in the C root called 'dev' or 'build' or something
[15:04]	:	Is the Linden green hand up on the screen here folks?
[15:04]	 	think he'll put the VIEWER_CHANNEL answer on the wiki as suggested by 5.3
[15:04]	:	Morgaine, yes
[15:04]	:	Morgaine, yes. I don't have media truned on.
[15:04]	:	but i have no media in the build
[15:05]	:	Thanks Robin. Bug in Imprudence beta 4's OpenJPEG then
[15:05]	:	After stopping the parcel media I have to hover the screen before I see the green hand
[15:05]	:	k guys, needs to run
[15:05]	:	You seeing rainbow splitches again?
[15:05]	:	see you again Tuesday, with more 2.0 ports and new 1.x bundles I guess
[15:05]	:	Thickbrick, there is a JIRA issue open on that.
[15:06]	:	My biggest question is what is ""?
[15:06]	:	login_channel
[15:06]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-363
[15:06]	:	?
[15:06]	:	[#SNOW-363] Media texture hesitates to return in scene after media play ends. Mouseover hastens the return.
[15:06]	:	Ardy: nope, not the rainbow splotches, but just a yellow wall with a few brick patches. I'll experiment with KDU after meeting
[15:06]	:	Techwolf: as much as I know, both calues are set to be the same for Snowglobe
[15:07]	:	no diff actually
[15:07]	:	Ah, I think Soft added a check for decode failures that discards the corrupted image instead of using it.
[15:07]	:	note that there's another LL_CHANNEL that's used in the code
[15:07]	:	Ardy: ah, that would explain it.
[15:07]	:	I wantd to know if setting those two things differnt what will it do?
[15:08]	:	it's messy and, to be honest, I'd like to go to the bottom of it myself
[15:08]	:	as I need to write a "branding script" (remember?) and don't want to dupe things if I don't need to
[15:10]	:	I suspect some inconsistent scripting in there... bet we need only one...
[15:10]	:	or may be some old difference not used anymore
[15:10]	:	bye!
[15:11]	:	could be some vestigial remnants of the web-based login system?
[15:11]	:	bye bye all
[15:11]	:	see you
[15:11]	:	culd well be
[15:11]	:	Need to have a "channel" for LL use, one "something" for the splashpage as the channel is tied to the splash page now.
[15:11]	:	thanks and by everybody : )
[15:11]	:	goodbye all!
[15:11]	:	see you guys!
[15:11]	:	Cyu merov :-)
[15:12]	:	Okay, back to hunting python script weirdness with hard coded paths.
[15:14]	:	Take care all
[15:15]	 	waves!
[15:15]	:	Cyu Jacek
 
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