Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.10.01

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2013.09.24	Next 2013.10.08
== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk	Andrew Linden 	Baker Linden
Faust Vollmar 	Ima Mechanique	Inara Pey
Jenna Felton 	Kammi Capalini	Kennylex Luckless
Lucia Nightfire 	MB Robonaught 	Mona Eberhardt
Nalates Urriah 	Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon
Simon Linden 	Talarus Luan 	TankMaster Finesmith
Yuzuru Jewell 	 	
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Andrew.
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Andrew.
[12:01] MB Robonaught: hi Andrew
[12:01] Andrew Linden: hello
[12:01] Simon Linden: I can start off with the release news ... http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-09-30/td-p/2235869
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello andrew
[12:02] Simon Linden: We didn't update anything today because the same version was all over the grid
[12:02] Simon Linden: There will be a new maintenance release tomorrow in all 3 RC channels
[12:02] Kennylex Luckless: Where is Baker, I has not seen him the latest times
[12:02] Simon Linden: There's a minor change that may help group notices a little
[12:03] Simon Linden: also a delete function for LSL JSON scripts
[12:03] Kennylex Luckless: BAKER! Helo :-)
[12:03] Simon Linden: but it's not a major update
[12:03] Mona Eberhardt: Hello Baker!
[12:03] Baker Linden: Hello everyone!
[12:03] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Baker.
[12:03] Faust Vollmar: Speak of the chicken. Hey Baker.
[12:03] Simon Linden: That's my news .... Andrew, do you have anything?
[12:03] Rex Cronon: hello baker
[12:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: hiya baker
[12:03] TankMaster Finesmith: howdy baker!
[12:04] Nalates Urriah: Which delivery problem with that fix?
[12:04] Andrew Linden: I do have a little bit of info about a vehicle region crossing bug that Maestro was working on
[12:04] Andrew Linden: Simon, I dunno if you were updated about that bug yet
[12:04] Simon Linden: The ghosted objects? I was just looking at that one too
[12:05] Andrew Linden: but it appears that there is a bug when vehicles cross region boundaries on parcels with autoreturn
[12:05] Baker Linden: I know I've been away from the UG for a couple weeks -- but it was because I was getting the Group Ban stuff finished up. Today I'll be working on merging the viewer code with what's in release, and I'll be working on getting up some actual builds to deploy to a grid for internal testing (it is not Aditi yet).
[12:05] Andrew Linden: in particular, if the vehicle has been on the parcel long enough to trigger autoreturn...
[12:05] Andrew Linden: it won't actually get autoreturned because someone is sitting on it
[12:06] Andrew Linden: but when it tries to cross the region boundary with the rider things fall apart
[12:06] Simon Linden: ah, that's the same one ... I have a proposed fix we should discuss later :)
[12:06] Baker Linden: so by the end of the day, I should have all the components deployed and ready for internal testing, and depending on how well that goes, it'll be ready for aditi soon!
[12:06] Andrew Linden: ok yeah lets talk about that after this meeting
[12:06] Andrew Linden: Oh yeah, I do have some items for the agenda...
[12:07] TankMaster Finesmith: yeah, but when can we get our hands on the code, baker? :P
[12:07] Simon Linden: Hopefully we'll have a fix for that out next week Wednesday
[12:07] Andrew Linden: (1) I'm pretty much done with interestlist stuff, and I want to make a comparison video..
[12:07] Andrew Linden: I'm looking for a region to do the comparisons on
[12:08] Talarus Luan: Need one with a giant tower in it? :p
[12:08] Kennylex Luckless: Natoma and Ivory Tower
[12:08] Andrew Linden: (I'll be comparing the latest simulator with one that is about 6 months old, before the beginning of the intereslist work started to get deployed)
[12:08] Andrew Linden: Yeah, so I'm looking for regions that are relatively object-heavy
[12:08] Andrew Linden: but not necessarily very texture heavy
[12:08] Baker Linden: Tank, yeah, you will be able to grab the code once I get the Team City build. I think I need to make my viewer repo public at that time
[12:08] MB Robonaught: you may use mine i that helps
[12:08] Baker Linden: so tomorrow, provided I don't screw things up too bad
[12:08] Andrew Linden: bonus points for regions that are popular that people may recognize
[12:09] Kennylex Luckless: Natomas Ivory Tover is a nightmare of twisted prims.
[12:09] Andrew Linden: I'll take a few suggestions and then later look the over and select something that will show the new scene loading performance.
[12:09] Baker Linden: But there are still a few small bugs and issues I have to work on in the code -- I'll be working on those while internal testing is happening
[12:09] TankMaster Finesmith: looking forward to it, baker
[12:10] Andrew Linden: complicated prims don't really matter, but lots of prims will be good
[12:10] Nalates Urriah: Yay Baker
[12:10] Baker Linden: there's a major refactor in llpanelgroupinvite
[12:10] Andrew Linden: since that is what really stresses out the scene load system
[12:10] Baker Linden: which is what I'm trying to hand-merge today
[12:10] MB Robonaught: Kustom klassics has 12,000 prims on it
[12:10] TankMaster Finesmith: andrew - bare rose has a lot of prims (and a lot fo 512 textures)
[12:10] Andrew Linden: the texture stuff just adds to the bandwidth that needs to be downloaded, and the texture popping can sometimes look like object load
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks... my list is currently: Bare Rose and Natoma
[12:11] Andrew Linden: oh, and Kustom klassics (12k prims is good)
[12:12] MB Robonaught: Kustom Klassics HQ if you want Andrew
[12:12] MB Robonaught: yup
[12:12] Nalates Urriah: Bare Rose would be a good one...
[12:12] Andrew Linden: 512 textures is nothing... we've found regions with 6k textures
[12:12] Baker Linden: Tank, the code may not be public tomorrow :) I misunderstood some stuff about our build system :)
[12:12] Jenna Felton: Endora is almost full, about 14000 prims on it
[12:12] Qie Niangao: hmmm... Michael may know of old-timey Mole content sims that are prim-heavy and texture/sculptmap-light.
[12:12] TankMaster Finesmith: i lot of people i think know about bare rose already
[12:12] Andrew Linden: I'd be happy with 1k textures or less
[12:12] Baker Linden: it'll be public soon though, and before I push it to aditi
[12:12] Adamburp Adamczyk: thanks Qie, you just reminded I have soem stuff to hassle LDPW with
[12:13] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks for "Endora" Jenna.
[12:13] TankMaster Finesmith: ok, baker, ill keep an eye out for it
[12:13] Andrew Linden: Uh... I had another item... but I forget what it was
[12:13] Baker Linden: is there a TPV meeting this week?
[12:13] Nalates Urriah: It was last Friday, Baker
[12:13] TankMaster Finesmith: no, baker
[12:14] TankMaster Finesmith: was last week
[12:14] Andrew Linden: Well, I can't remember what it was. I'm done for now -- maybe I'll remember later.
[12:14] Baker Linden: ok. I'll probably make it public then. I'll be going into that meeting to announce the changes and to explain what I've done to the viewer :)
[12:15] Simon Linden: ok, the invisible table is open for questions or topics then
[12:15] Rex Cronon: andrew. u might not need a full sim, just use one of those "tools" that fill the sim with prims:)
[12:15] Qie Niangao: Checking to see if I understand workings of OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT constant for llGetObjectDetails() -- it relies on what viewers report, so in theory, couldn't a flock of TPV-wielding griefers skew the results (for example maybe getting an enemy banned from a sim, if that sim bans based on that metric) ?
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Yeah Rex, I've made a few regions of test content
[12:16] Andrew Linden: but I'd like to show a real "normal" region that some people are familiar with
[12:16] Talarus Luan: Now that you're off the interestlist stuff, Andrew, any chance you can take a few minutes to look at SVC-7556 ?
[12:16] Andrew Linden: the simulator I'll be comparing with is long gone
[12:16] Lucia Nightfire: OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT's primary use will be for moderation we all know that, lol
[12:16] Andrew Linden: but I'll bet some people will be able to remember what it was like for the scene to load in the wrong order
[12:17] Qie Niangao: "moderation" ?
[12:17] Andrew Linden: and the video I'm hoping to make will bring back "fond" memories
[12:17] Rex Cronon: haha
[12:17] Andrew Linden: hrm... 7556? I'll read it now...
[12:17] MB Robonaught: I have a question if I may....
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: looking out for people with high values and doign soemthing about it
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: in a nutshell
[12:18] Rex Cronon: now if only the viewer statistics floater will show the real nr of prims in the sim...
[12:18] Qie Niangao: Lucy: right: that's why I think it's vulnerable to "gaming" by griefers wit naughty viewers.
[12:18] Simon Linden: yes ... OBJECT_RENDER_WEIGHT needs to be used carefully
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: theres been chatter on that subject, I just don't ahve any details on how it will work
[12:18] Andrew Linden: 7556 is about keyframed objects stopping after sim restart... I might be able to get to that
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: I can onyl hope that it will, lol
[12:18] Andrew Linden: go ahead MB
[12:18] Simon Linden: First, the way that is calculated is likely to change ... I'm going to be working on it today, in fact
[12:18] Qie Niangao: (but yeah, mostly, I just wanted to be sure I understand how it works.)
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: Maestro said you and he brainstormed on it
[12:19] MB Robonaught: has there been any reports of notecards failing to open/save/or read correctly latley?
[12:19] Andrew Linden: I haven't heard of any notecard problems recently.
[12:19] MB Robonaught: I'm trying to find out if it is grid wide or just my place
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: I'm sure you saw my jira n the concerns
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: *on
[12:19] Andrew Linden: I'll ask Maestro later -- he keeps an eye on incoming bugs.
[12:19] MB Robonaught: or if it is viewer related
[12:20] Simon Linden: I did Lucy, and it had some good ideas. I'm sure we can do better than what we have today
[12:20] Talarus Luan: Cool. Would be nice to have that fixed so I can use llSetKeyframedMotion rather than llMoveToTarget for prim animation. <.<
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: Andrew, talking about render weight obfuscation and impartial reporting
[12:20] MB Robonaught: thanks Andrew
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: which you get atm with current render weight bugs alone
[12:21] Andrew Linden: MB, what is the region where you noticed the notecard problem?
[12:21] Simon Linden: fwiw I did some in-world gathering of AV render weights ... there's a sharp drop above 250k or so ... that's where you get into values only a few percent of people reach
[12:21] Simon Linden: yet some get very, very high values, up over 1 million
[12:22] MB Robonaught: Kustom Klassics HQ....we run cars that get the settings from notecards and they fail ever so often
[12:22] Rex Cronon: mesh hair is the reason:)
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: is the current maint viewre capped at sending 1 mil values or is the ARW server capped at accepting them?
[12:23] MB Robonaught: for example we will tune down but the change won't be applied to the scripts
[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: more is better, right simon?
[12:23] TankMaster Finesmith: :D
[12:23] Jenna Felton: script read notecards independ on the viewer
[12:23] MB Robonaught: please note it's the same reader code I've used for years
[12:23] MB Robonaught: right jenna
[12:24] Simon Linden: I'd have to double-check the viewer code. I'd rather not get into the exact server code since it's a lot easier to game if you know what it does ... plus I'm going to change it for next week's RC release
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4010 & https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4011 are a concern with render weights atm that I found recently
[12:25] TankMaster Finesmith: will this help with this video card crashers that are using overly complex glowy sculpts?
[12:25] Simon Linden: I may also ask for some help collecting render weight data ... I have about 500 AV samples, and that seems to produce a decent curve, but more data would be interesting
[12:25] TankMaster Finesmith: im not sure right off what they show up for avatar weight
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: yes, Tank they will
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: sculpt laggers run in the multi millions
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of which, Tank, exactly why are GPU crashers allowed to be sold in the marketplace, *despite* hundreds of abuse reports?
[12:26] Jenna Felton: propably a popular heel store or latex store can give a good data about overloaded avatars
[12:26] Rex Cronon: tankmaster. u can survive one of those complex glowy sclupts, without a video card crash:)
[12:27] Simon Linden: Lucy - the value the viewer sends is not capped. I will likely change that soon
[12:27] TankMaster Finesmith: if you turn off alpha rendering, those sculpt crashers wont work
[12:27] Mona Eberhardt: Maybe that's something that LL should really answer.
[12:27] Rex Cronon: they still lag u
[12:27] Lucia Nightfire: if you turn off rendering it won't work eitehr unless they're combined with certain otehr params, heh
[12:28] Kennylex Luckless: A good idea is to blacklist GFX crashers so they never load.
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: ok, ty, Simon
[12:28] Andrew Linden: Yes, why render-bombs are allowed on the marketplace is a question for LL. However I don't know the answer. I'll have to ask the marketplace team.
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: good luck there
[12:29] Faust Vollmar: Haha have they made better ones now that a quick ctrl-alt-shift-9 doesnt stop?
[12:29] Talarus Luan: Left hand, meet right hand. Left foot, stomp on right foot. :P
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: while you're at it ask Gov why they won't disc accounts that repeatedly use them abroad, lol
[12:29] Kennylex Luckless: In that way would it be cool to do a Blaclkist format toy can share with friends and merge.
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: after several AR's
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: Please do, Andrew. They've had hundreds of ARs. But I really don't think they care at all - remember, these crashers were even used in an extortion scandal here in SL.
[12:30] TankMaster Finesmith: some viewers to have a global blacklist that can be handed out to all their viewers, but its rarly used
[12:30] Rex Cronon: it is weird. i had an item that was removed from the mp(now is back) because it was in wrong section, but a crasher is not removed?
[12:30] Mona Eberhardt: Lucy is right.
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:30] Kennylex Luckless: Linden Realms cheaters should not be alowed to sell in Market place.
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: half of the combat HUD systems on mp have sculpt laggers and even sim crashers publicaly marketed
[12:31] Talarus Luan: You can cheat in Linden Realms? O.o Why?
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: esp taht "bomb"
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: it even has a vid on mp demoing the behaviour, lol
[12:31] Rex Cronon: lucy is right about combat huds:(
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: Basically, just ban sales of all these "combat HUDs". And maybe sack those who turn a blind eye to them despite the ARs.
[12:31] Talarus Luan: Yeah, those things should be investigated and fixed pronto.
[12:31] Kennylex Luckless: Btw, why do Linden Relms seldom start up okay, it is hard to get a hud and some tims whole regions do not work
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: well, times have changed, "combat" is now lag/crash, lol
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: lag/spam/crash
[12:32] Rex Cronon: lol. it has been like that at rausch forever:(
[12:32] Faust Vollmar: Gotta love the SL arms race.
[12:32] Faust Vollmar: (Sarcasm, don't kill me. >.>)
[12:32] MB Robonaught: lol Faust
[12:33] Andrew Linden doesn't know much about Linden Realms.
[12:33] Simon Linden: it is an arms race, definitely
[12:33] Rex Cronon: lets do some "combat" faust;)
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: And the MP team should *finally* (but I'm being naive here) adopt a "ban on sight/report" policy towards combat HUDs with lag/spam/crash cunftionality.
[12:33] Talarus Luan: I noticed the new particle system params in the current release.
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: functionality*
[12:33] Talarus Luan: Haven't had a chance to try them out yet but are there any more planned, like maybe circular motion and animated billboards?
[12:33] MB Robonaught: tell a programmer something is impossible to code and see how long it takes for it to happen
[12:34] Mona Eberhardt: And maybe something should be done about in-world spyware (like clones of the infamous RedZone or the Gemini CDS Ban Relay).
[12:34] Talarus Luan: That works, unless it is the programmer saying it is impossible, then all bets are off.
[12:34] Simon Linden: Talarus - there are none that I know of
[12:34] MB Robonaught: true lol
[12:34] Rex Cronon: robonaught. it is impossible to write code that will make ll change the tos;)
[12:34] Faust Vollmar: lol Rex I've never been a part of the "grief" style combat world, and even the "normal" variety is something I'm terrible at due to being behind a desk (scripting) too long.
[12:34] Andrew Linden: Good question about the new particle parameters... I think the recent work there was a pet project of Runitai's
[12:35] MB Robonaught: good point rex lol
[12:35] TankMaster Finesmith: so its not part of the ribbon stuff?
[12:35] Talarus Luan: Well, pass along my thanks and encouragement to Runitai for more. :D
[12:35] Rex Cronon: faust. i don't do it either.i was just jocking:)
[12:35] Andrew Linden: I'll try to remember to ask Runitai about future plans when he gets back.
[12:35] Talarus Luan: The sound system needs some love at some point, too.
[12:35] Qie Niangao: I have to say, the particle blending stuff still largely eludes me, but it's all cool anyway.
[12:36] Jenna Felton: i was thinking ribbon particles are making a wire betweem the source and target, but i seem to fail in making them so
[12:37] Faust Vollmar: The RedZone/etc clones are all against TOS so if Gov isnt doing anything when informed about them, thats unfortunately an enforcement failure... Not easy to fix.
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: Indeed. We're talking *spyware* here.
[12:37] Simon Linden: if you have any suggestions for particles, feel free to send in a BUG report as a feature request. I can't promise anything, of course, except that we will read it
[12:37] Adamburp Adamczyk: doe anyoen actually use media in sl now?
[12:37] Kammi Capalini: Hi all, I noticed something that started today, at least for me, I'm getting "script errors" that are blank
[12:37] Adamburp Adamczyk: ever since rz/quickwar etc
[12:37] Talarus Luan: Well, enforcement in a free-account world is pretty pointless when it comes to griefers, anyway. The only real solution is a technical fix to remove their "toys".
[12:37] Qie Niangao: Adam: my question exactly
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: plenty use media, lol
[12:38] Adamburp Adamczyk: i won't
[12:38] Jenna Felton: Adam, not me
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: plenty use voice
[12:38] Talarus Luan: Will do, Simon
[12:38] Rex Cronon: i guess having somebody finding your ip is not such a big deal:)
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: plenty load urls too
[12:39] Faust Vollmar: Is the media-based spyware even fixable in the first place? To my knowledge the best you can do is the media filter and good information about how to spot urls that look tracker-ey.
[12:39] MB Robonaught: check youtube on that rex lol
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: spyware is everywhere, lol
[12:40] Rex Cronon: i wonder what happens if somebody finds a way to redirect the in-built browser to p0rn sites:)
[12:40] Qie Niangao: Rex: concurrency rises?
[12:40] Rex Cronon: haha
[12:40] MB Robonaught: bunch of happy campers?
[12:40] Mona Eberhardt: What's appalling is that some high-profile merchants openly say they use such spyware (such as a certain shoe store *cough cough*).
[12:41] Rex Cronon: those site usually have spyware/malware for free:)
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: what abotu RL spyware, anyone using Adobe Flash player? heh
[12:41] Mona Eberhardt: Why use Flash when there's HTML5?
[12:41] Simon Linden: I don't think there's much you can do about the media-based data gathering ... you either access other urls or you don't
[12:42] Simon Linden: If you use them, you give away some info
[12:42] Mona Eberhardt: Well, Simon, you can: ban its creators and its users.
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: you can either use urls or not, use voice or nto, use media or not, lol
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: alternatively, log into SL or not
[12:42] Rex Cronon: u can also use a good firewall:)
[12:42] Jenna Felton: thats evil Lucy :)
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: sbt
[12:43] Qie Niangao: well, the firewall doesn't solve the alt-detection problem, which is the whole point. I mean, IP-address tracking isn't interesting otherwise.
[12:43] Talarus Luan: Someone has my IP address.. for the day. ohnoez!
[12:43] Rex Cronon: too bad that the sl viewer doesn't allow me to turn off the voice executable:(
[12:43] Jenna Felton: can you use a proxy server that redirects web access outside LL servers to some sand box?
[12:44] Jenna Felton: or a prosy that hides your IP
[12:44] Talarus Luan: Yeah send web requests through TOR :P
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: Rex hopefully that issue will eb fixed soon, they have at least two jira's accepted on that
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: Talarus, someone keeps a database of IPs, which are often dynamically allocated, so they can erroneously block someone who hadn't done anything. It's the same stuff as IP bans in forums.
[12:45] Talarus Luan: That's not my problem.
[12:45] Talarus Luan: That's just a dumb use of IP addresses
[12:45] Talarus Luan: and I am aware of that issue. :)
[12:46] Rex Cronon: a few years back somebody found a way to run ping.exe on my computer through the sl viewer:(
[12:46] Jenna Felton: oh
[12:46] Mona Eberhardt: Not to mention that the lack of transparency in how this data is handled (a lack of privacy policy is illegal in many jurisdictions) should ring a few bells. After all, LL does say that its users have a right to reasonable privacy - then why not get those users that maliciously invade others' privacy out of its system?/
[12:46] Jenna Felton: this can open any door to your PC than Rex
[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: you can install rootkits through SL if you know how allegedly
[12:47] Rex Cronon: was before v3. hopefully is fixed
[12:48] Andrew Linden: You can't install rootkits with the official SL viewer, but maybe using malicious 3p viewers
[12:48] Talarus Luan: Never say never :P
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: idk, I'd have to talk to the person taht said they can, heh
[12:48] Andrew Linden: Hmph -- good point.
[12:48] Simon Linden: We'd definitely like to learn how to do that
[12:49] Talarus Luan: If someone found a code exploit weakness in a 3rd-party library the viewer uses, then guess what?
[12:49] Rex Cronon: why do i get these errors?
[12:49] Qie Niangao: a buffer overrun in the LL viewer? Shocked. Shocked, I tell you!
[12:49] Mona Eberhardt: I'm trying to vote, Rex, but it seems there's a script error.
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: well I can guearuntee you they aren't the type to come forward with how, at least in a white hat manner, heh
[12:49] Kammi Capalini: Hi all, I noticed something that started today, at least for me, I'm getting "script errors" that are blank
[12:49] Qie Niangao: Mona, it only works if you vote "yes" :p
[12:49] Rex Cronon: oh. forgot. i have that thing attached. lol
[12:49] MB Robonaught: what could cause those blank errors?
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: script errors or chat on the debug channel?
[12:50] Andrew Linden: More info please Kammi.
[12:50] Andrew Linden: Do you have a simple script that reproduces the problem?
[12:50] Talarus Luan: QIe.. haha
[12:50] Andrew Linden: On all regions? or just certain regions?
[12:50] Kammi Capalini: that's all i have, I see a script error, I click it to read it, it's blank
[12:50] Simon Linden: yep, I understand Lucy ... but I'm sure you understand our side of it. We want to close any buffer-overruns or other invasive techniques that could compromise the viewer
[12:50] MB Robonaught: happens when you log in right?
[12:50] Kammi Capalini: yes
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: oh definately
[12:51] Rex Cronon: it worked yesterday:(
[12:51] Andrew Linden: Kammi, a script you wrote? Or witten by someone else?
[12:51] Kammi Capalini: when i log in
[12:51] Andrew Linden: A script that you have read access to?
[12:51] Baker Linden: Can we get a copy of the object?
[12:51] Baker Linden: see if we can repro it?
[12:51] Andrew Linden: Huh... on login, so probably on an attachment?
[12:52] Kammi Capalini: might be an attachment, but didn't happen when I logged in here
[12:52] MB Robonaught: take one attachment off at a time until it stops
[12:52] Kammi Capalini: it has no name
[12:52] Andrew Linden: Kammi, do you ever use the beta grid? (aditi)
[12:52] Kammi Capalini: no
[12:53] MB Robonaught: I can show her Andrew
[12:53] Andrew Linden: Ok, I was just wondering if the bug reproduces there.
[12:53] Talarus Luan: Rex, you're missing option 4... pie!
[12:53] Rex Cronon: later i will have to look at it
[12:53] Talarus Luan: No poll is complete without pie.
[12:53] Rex Cronon: and cake too:)
[12:54] Talarus Luan: cake is da debbil!
[12:54] Andrew Linden: Kammi, if the problem were really annoying, or we had more reports of it, it is theoretically possible for us to "hijack" your account, login, and see if we can reproduce the problem.
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: no way
[12:54] Kammi Capalini: will beer be provided?
[12:54] Andrew Linden: However, we're unlikely to do that in this case on the main grid
[12:54] Andrew Linden: since the bug is not serious enough.
[12:54] Andrew Linden: But the threshold is lower on the beta grid.
[12:55] Andrew Linden: No beer, unfortunately.
[12:55] MB Robonaught: I'll take here there
[12:55] MB Robonaught: her*
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:55] Andrew Linden: But there are some bugs that are really annoying, like a server crash on login caused by an attachment. Things like that.
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: anythign good coming down the pipe aside from group banlist? heh
[12:56] MB Robonaught: well Kammi crashes way too often I wonder if it is related/expanding issue'
[12:56] MB Robonaught: no warning no lag just poofs
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: Besides MySQL, what other external database types can be used with LSL?
[12:56] Kammi Capalini: I never had a proplem crashing til the SSA/SSB
[12:57] Andrew Linden: BTW Kammi, if you want to try the beta grid I can enable your account there.
[12:57] Ima Mechanique: Mona, anything you like
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: OK Ima, thanks.
[12:57] Ima Mechanique: just a matter of scripting it
[12:57] MB Robonaught: please do andrew I'll take her there
[12:57] Kammi Capalini: yes please
[12:57] Adamburp Adamczyk: Get to the Joppa!
[12:57] Andrew Linden: Otherwise, the protocol for getting to the beta grid is probably to contact someone like Maestro who often helps people get more clues to the cause of bugs.
[12:58] Andrew Linden: ok
[12:58] Talarus Luan: You can use whatever 3rd-party database you want on your own server, I would presume. <.<
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: heh
[12:59] Simon Linden: If there is anyone here that would be interested in helping gather avatar render data, please send me an IM and I can let you know how. It takes 5-10 minutes to get a good data set
[12:59] Andrew Linden: Ok Kammi, your account is enabled on the aditi grid (in theory). It doesn't actually have your inventory until you login, so the first login may take a little longer than normal as it copies your current inventory over.
[12:59] Talarus Luan: Gather as in present avatars to be analyzed, or go out and gather / analyze them?
[13:00] Kammi Capalini: ok, thanks Andrew
[13:00] Kammi Capalini: :)
[13:00] Jenna Felton: not knew you must be enabled first to get to aditi... i just logged there without asking anyone ...
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] MB Robonaught: great meeting all thanks
[13:00] Rex Cronon: sorry. simon. not that many normal avatars at swt
[13:01] Andrew Linden: It was my understanding that not all accounts are enabled there. We certainly don't maintain everyone's inventory on the beta grid.
[13:01] Jenna Felton: ah
[13:01] Jenna Felton: than i was lucky
[13:01] Andrew Linden: However, accounts that are active on the beta grid are probably kept around.
[13:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: *CENSORED*
[13:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: Up, up...and....
[13:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: ...FLAT NOSE
[13:02] Kammi Capalini: only in SL will you see a cookie monster trying to fly :P
[13:02] Jenna Felton: thank you Andrew
[13:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Lindens.
[13:02] Talarus Luan: I think CM has tried to fly before on Sesame Street
[13:02] Andrew Linden: Cheers.
[13:02] MB Robonaught: bye all thanks for letting us attend
[13:03] TankMaster Finesmith: simon, will there be a certain viewer you will want us to use for the test?
[13:03] Talarus Luan: Thanks and take care.
[13:03] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Lindens.
[13:03] TankMaster Finesmith: have a good rest of the week, andrew
[13:03] Ima Mechanique: bye, and thanks for the fish ;-)
[13:03] Jenna Felton: that was an interesting meeting
[13:03] Faust Vollmar: Take care Andrew, Baker, Simon and everyone else.
[13:03] Kammi Capalini: have a great day everyone, thanks all
[13:03] Kennylex Luckless: Thanks Baker and minior Lindens.
[13:03] TankMaster Finesmith: hope to be hearing from you soon, baker :P
[13:03] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[13:03] Faust Vollmar should probably go to JIRA now that he knows he can submit feature requests under the bug tag. >.>
[13:04] Talarus Luan: Only at LL. :P
[13:04] Faust Vollmar: Heh
[13:04] Adamburp Adamczyk: "~" Oompa loompa doopidy doo "~"
[13:05] Baker Linden: Thanks everyone! Time to get this stuff ready for testing!
[13:05] TankMaster Finesmith: tc baker!
[13:05] Nalates Urriah: bye all
[13:05] Rex Cronon: group meeting over. right?
[13:05] Rex Cronon: tc baker
[13:05] TankMaster Finesmith: yes, rex
[13:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Baker.
[13:05] Rex Cronon: stopping logger
[13:05] Jenna Felton: Thanks for the meeting Lindens, and all, and have a good rest of the day
[13:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex.
[13:05] Talarus Luan: Fair winds, folks.
[13:06] Rex Cronon: if u can late u can read transcript here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[13:06] Inara Pey: Thanks, all.
Simulator_User_Group
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