Mentor Linguists/2009 03 11 Meeting Transcript

== Summary ==
A short summary of the topics and decisions of this meeting (old agenda):
Group merge related:
*The Mentor Linguists inworld group will merge with the Second Life CT Projects group (no objections against that).
*Suggestions for merge:
**Proposal 1:
**#Give all members of the group invitation rights
**#Create an extra role for those members who are verified to take part in the CT Project.
**#:That means those who agreed to the Terms and Conditions for Second Life Community Translation Program. This is just to distinguish members, not to give special rights to them.
**#Members can only invite to the everyone role. Lindens can assign to the verified member role.
**#:The idea behind that is to not exclude any interested party. To get them involved as easy as possible. To lower the barrier for entry and to provide the chance to have access to Localization Central, when a meeting takes place and a fast invite is neccessary for them to access.
**or Proposal 2:
**#Add local translation groups to the access list of of Localization Central (such as Localisation de Second Life, Dansk Sproget Second Life, German speaking Linguists, Dutch Linguists Translation Team and maybe others).
**or Proposal 3:
**#Open the island for the public.
*In case the island is open for the public, it is suggested to build a promotion area for the translation projects. Like
**Have localization related office hours at Localization Central (Rika, Noelle, Simone + maybe Danica some day).
**Build an information path on how to join the projects.
**Promote the island (and therefor the projects) with an exhibition at Second Lifes next birthday.
Other topics:
*Future meetings at Localization Central in case any of the three proposals get's an OK, otherwise at Tenera to ensure that every interested party is able to join the meeting.
*Promotion of new multi-lang feature (Google links - only visible when no volunteer translation is available)
*Question to help with localization of related Template:Translation Message to promote volunteer translations.
*Promotion of Template:Multi-lang/kb
== List of Attendees ==
*Gally Young
*Zai Lynch
*Kire Laasonen
== Transcript ==
*[12:08 SLT] Gally Young: hello zai )
*[12:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: heyas ^_^
*[12:08 SLT] Gally Young: how are you ?
*[12:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: looks lonely in here o.O so i guess we'll not have much trouble finding a consus on the topic ^^
*[12:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh doing good, thx! :-)
*[12:08 SLT] Gally Young: yes indeed )
*[12:09 SLT] Zai Lynch: i need to say that i'm not 100% sure of the merge... i'd like to have certain conditions fullflled. like members beeing able to invite other members. so we don't have to worry about people getting no access to localization central
*[12:10 SLT] Gally Young: mmm indeed ot at least add local group on the access list of the island
*[12:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah that would be great. tho danica didn't really want that, said rika
*[12:11 SLT] Gally Young: ~60 groups can be added )
*[12:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: whew o.O
*[12:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah that might be a solution too then
*[12:11 SLT] Gally Young: must be checked again, but I was suprised )
*[12:12 SLT] Gally Young: about the invitation in the group, you're right
*[12:12 SLT] Gally Young: the group mustn't be too elitist
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: i can see the point of lexie wanting people to fill out the survey monkey stuff. since it contains these legal requirements about copyright on translations
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: but we could have like two group roles
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: the ones who officially take part
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: and the ones who are invited by residents. and only lindens can assign to the second role
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: errr
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: first
*[12:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: i mean ^^
*[12:14 SLT] Gally Young: mmm good idea )
*[12:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: that way they could still distinguish and we could also invite people without them needing to worry
*[12:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: ty =)
*[12:15 SLT] Zai Lynch: i changed some stuff in the multi language bar and received both, positive and negative feedback. i'm not sure if i should change it maybe.
*[12:15 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah
*[12:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: wait... let's finish the other topic first: would you be fine with merging the groups?
*[12:16 SLT] Gally Young: yes I was surprised the first time )
*[12:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: if so, i'd give lexie the ok and ask for invitation rights + considering the group roles
*[12:16 SLT] Gally Young: mmm it' okey for me )
*[12:17 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok :-)
*[12:17 SLT] Gally Young: to be honest there are the local linguists roles where membres can have more power (notices for example), so power in the main group isn't so important because it's mainly a communication medium
*[12:18 SLT] Gally Young: local linguists roles => local linguists groups
*[12:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yes
*[12:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: in case we get access to localization central with local groups. and in case every sub linguists group got an inworld group. but i see the point... so it wouldn't be something for me to say no to the merge
*[12:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'll just ask for it... in case she says "yes" then it's cool. in case she says "no"... well, then not... but will merge nevertheless since no one raise the voice to fight that
*[12:19 SLT] Gally Young: no I'm fine with the merge
*[12:19 SLT] Gally Young: okey )
*[12:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[12:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok, then i'll write her a mail later tonight
*[12:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: @ multi lang: it checks if a volunteer translation is available. if so, it links to the volunteer translation. if not, it links the google translation. i know that machine translations are really crappy.... but i think in case someone is searching for help, it might be better than nothing
*[12:21 SLT] Gally Young: wow
*[12:21 SLT] Zai Lynch: and the google links are discarded the moment a volunteer translated a page
*[12:21 SLT] Gally Young: very nice idea
*[12:21 SLT] Gally Young: I'm impressed !
*[12:21 SLT] Zai Lynch: aaww ty (^_^) i got the inspiration from a mentor who asked for help with a template. and i thought it might be usable for multi-lang
*[12:21 SLT] Zai Lynch blushs
*[12:21 SLT] Gally Young: :)
*[12:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: it also includes this new bar, stating how to provide volunteer translations (with a link to project languages). that one would need to be localized. could you translate it to french?
*[12:22 SLT] Gally Young: yep, it's also a good idea
*[12:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: it is that one: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Template:Translation_Message
*[12:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: ty :-)
*[12:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'll poke more people on it later via the mailing list... so hopefully we'll have it localized in some languages soon, since two sentences aren't so much work
*[12:24 SLT] Zai Lynch: hmm... what else was on the agenda *looks*
*[12:24 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah → Future meetings in Localization Central (128, 128, 0)?
*[12:24 SLT] Gally Young: yes !
*[12:25 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'd say: in case we get access, either via the invitation of people to the CT projects group, or with adding local groups to the access list of the island. otherwise it might be a problem in case someone isn't part of the ct projects group... like with the meeting of the french linguists earlier this week
*[12:26 SLT] Gally Young: yes... maybe we can add temporarily groups on the list, but it's not a good solution....
*[12:26 SLT] Gally Young: why restrict the island access ?
*[12:27 SLT] Gally Young: I don't see the point
*[12:27 SLT] Zai Lynch: i don't know. when they gave me the estate rights, the first thing i did was to open it for the public. but i got an IM from rika a few days later. wait, i'll look for the chatlog to see what the point was...
*[12:28 SLT] Gally Young: we can ask again )
*[12:28 SLT] Gally Young: you could add the idea in your mail ?
*[12:28 SLT] Gally Young: the third way )
*[12:28 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yes. ok =)
*[12:29 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm two points left. one is "how to improve the island" but i currently got no idea how to make it into a better resource
*[12:30 SLT] Gally Young: mmm all Office hours about CT project must be in the island I think
*[12:30 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah good.... maybe as an inworld board
*[12:30 SLT] Gally Young: bring people in the island is the first step...
*[12:31 SLT] Gally Young: for example Simone & Noelle Offices hours could take place in the island )
*[12:31 SLT] Zai Lynch: we could try to make it read the hCalendar code from the office hour page so it could update automatically...
*[12:31 SLT] Gally Young: mm yes )
*[12:32 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yeah i had suggested moving OHs there but there was again objections against it. i should remember which... urm
*[12:32 SLT] Gally Young: a section about the wiki localization project can be interesting
*[12:32 SLT] Gally Young: how to localized page
*[12:32 SLT] Gally Young: who can help
*[12:32 SLT] Gally Young: etc
*[12:33 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yeah. how can we do that? place some texture on a prim that links to project languages?
*[12:33 SLT] Gally Young: several board (edition rules, languages, wiki languages, people who can help, how to start etc)
*[12:34 SLT] Gally Young: and place for each main CT project can be interesting
*[12:34 SLT] Zai Lynch: it is always hard to keep these updated inworld, since we would either need textures or huge text boards
*[12:34 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Hi
*[12:35 SLT] Gally Young: KB, website and client
*[12:35 SLT] Zai Lynch: heyas Kira =)
*[12:35 SLT] Gally Young: hello Kire )
*[12:35 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Sorry I'm late but is was dinner time in Paris
*[12:35 SLT] Gally Young: I'm hungry ツ
*[12:36 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm... yeah that sounds good. like one big think "How can I provide translations" and then show the two paths to official CT Project (for KB, website and client) and Wiki translations
*[12:36 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh yeah... i should eat too soon ^^ np kire :-)
*[12:36 SLT] Kire Laasonen: SL comes before your stomack :-)
*[12:36 SLT] Zai Lynch: we're currently discussing on how to improve the localization central island
*[12:37 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK
*[12:37 SLT] Gally Young: maybe something like a path when we can see on Welcome Island )
*[12:37 SLT] Gally Young: *how
*[12:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: oohh that is a neat idea... a walk through translation tutorial...
*[12:38 SLT] Gally Young: yes )
*[12:38 SLT] Kire Laasonen: But who is the target visitor?
*[12:39 SLT] Gally Young: peoples who want to help with the localization projects :)
*[12:39 SLT] Zai Lynch: hum... right. the people who currently are able to visit the island are already part of the project.... but they might not know about wiki translations
*[12:39 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK
*[12:39 SLT] Gally Young: mm the island could be opened to everyone...
*[12:40 SLT] Gally Young: it would be a nice way to use it )
*[12:40 SLT] Kire Laasonen: It might inspire people to become translators
*[12:40 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah totally agree
*[12:40 SLT] Kire Laasonen: We could look at it as a promotional place too
*[12:41 SLT] Gally Young: meeting place & promotional place ! ツ
*[12:41 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Each language could have a boot
*[12:41 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah and we could try as a group to make an exhibition at the next birthday of SL™ (SL6B) and invite people to the island. promote it
*[12:42 SLT] Gally Young: yes ! :)
*[12:42 SLT] Kire Laasonen: But who is the head architect here? Is it you Zai?
*[12:42 SLT] Zai Lynch: eerr... architect. no, i'm not really good at building ^_^ i try to help where i can, but my skills at building are limited
*[12:43 SLT] Zai Lynch: tho, all the land is set to the CT Projects group, so basically anyone who likes can build there with the group activated
*[12:43 SLT] Kire Laasonen: But there needs to be someone with a global vision
*[12:43 SLT] Gally Young: mmm if LL is okey, you could search help ))
*[12:44 SLT] Gally Young: surfaqua Oh have created a help island for french people
*[12:44 SLT] Gally Young: meybe he could help us )
*[12:44 SLT] Gally Young: maybe
*[12:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah and Lisa Lowe is a great builder too. I'm sure we could put something together
*[12:44 SLT] Kire Laasonen: We can all contribute but there needs to be a overall project
*[12:44 SLT] Gally Young: we only have to ask for voluonteers )
*[12:45 SLT] Gally Young: It's an interesting project )
*[12:45 SLT] Kire Laasonen: I am willing to help
*[12:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: hmm... yeah.... @need for a vision. i think the first step would be, to ask for public access. if we can't achieve that, we don't have to worry to much about the project. if we can get that, we can have a meeting for planning and/or a discussion in the mailing list to gather ideas. after we collected ideas, we can try to outline something and then look for builders
*[12:46 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK, soonds good to me
*[12:47 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay ^_^ are you registered to the mailing list kire? or should i send you an invitation?
*[12:47 SLT] Gally Young: Hope you will get the public access )
*[12:47 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah, crossing fingers...
*[12:48 SLT] Kire Laasonen: I received your message about this meeting
*[12:48 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah ok. then you're either in the inworld group or in the mailing list or both :-)
*[12:48 SLT] Kire Laasonen: (third meeting for Gally and me this week)
*[12:48 SLT] Zai Lynch: hehe. busy ^^
*[12:49 SLT] Gally Young: always )))
*[12:49 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[12:49 SLT] Kire Laasonen: :-)
*[12:49 SLT] Zai Lynch: do you two have a good connection to noelle? i wrote this teother template for the wiki KB translations and sent a mail to the CT mailing list, but haven#t received any response
*[12:50 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'd think that connceting KB articles via a language bar would be a good idea... → https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Template:Multi-lang/kb
*[12:50 SLT] Kire Laasonen: We meet her every week on Tuesdays
*[12:50 SLT] Zai Lynch: but i can't access the pages since they are all protected (x-x)
*[12:50 SLT] Zai Lynch: could you suggest her to and explain her how to use it?
*[12:50 SLT] Gally Young: what is the goal of this template ?
*[12:52 SLT] Gally Young: hooo great )
*[12:52 SLT] Zai Lynch: so you could get to a japanese KB article in the wiki and click "english" and get to the same KB article in the KB in english
*[12:52 SLT] Zai Lynch: aaww thx ^^
*[12:53 SLT] Gally Young: It's similar to the modification I have done on the {{help/fr}} template ?
*[12:53 SLT] Gally Young: but it's better )
*[12:53 SLT] Zai Lynch: aw thx :-)
*[12:53 SLT] Kire Laasonen: That would be great
*[12:54 SLT] Gally Young: I have to see how to use it
*[12:54 SLT] Kire Laasonen: It is very a very useful function
*[12:54 SLT] Gally Young: I must work with Noelle on her wiki page (if necessary she proposes to remove the protection for the update)
*[12:55 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh that would be neat!
*[12:55 SLT] Zai Lynch: i always sit there and want to edit stuff but then can't (x_x)
*[12:56 SLT] Gally Young: Probably because of licenses
*[12:57 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah. kinda. they want to make sure that the information provided there remain to be "official". so they don't want other people to change things in there. like adding additional information or so
*[12:58 SLT] Zai Lynch: since these might contain mistakes
*[12:58 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Fair enough
*[12:58 SLT] Zai Lynch nods
*[12:58 SLT] Zai Lynch: still giving me headaches tho ^^ anyway... maybe we can deploy that language bar and explain them how to use it
*[12:59 SLT] Gally Young: yes, for example, Noelle could remove the protection of her page for a week-end
*[12:59 SLT] Gally Young: I will ask her
*[12:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: that would be really awesome <3
*[13:00 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'm sure we'd ensure that no one messes with the provided information, and that just the formatting is changed
*[13:01 SLT] Gally Young: yes, I have already speak with her about this template stuff (even if it wasn't the last templates versions) ;)
*[13:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok, last agenda item was #
*# Update on Localization Portal 
*but since you both attend noelles OHs, you're both aware that it is currently cancelled... was more aimed to people who aren't at office hours
*[13:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh that's great! i should do so with rika too
*[13:03 SLT] Gally Young: Yes, all KB pages must have the same format )
*[13:03 SLT] Zai Lynch nods. would be neat :-)
*[13:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok... think we're through with all items... do you have other stuff to discuss?
*[13:04 SLT] Kire Laasonen: No, not on my side
*[13:05 SLT] Kire Laasonen: There was this item about joining groups
*[13:06 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yeah. we ran through that before your arrival. so our conclusion so far was: "no objections, groups will join". while we'll ask for invitation rights. and suggest to create two group roles. the "official" members who entered via the survey monkey (and agreed to the terms and conditions) and the ones who were invited by another volunteer. that way LL™ could still distinguish people
*[13:07 SLT] Zai Lynch: would you have objections against the group merge or other suggestions for it? conditions or so?
*[13:07 SLT] Gally Young: mmm currently, how to join the group ?
*[13:07 SLT] Kire Laasonen: I have no objections but I dont really know how I landed here LOL
*[13:08 SLT] Gally Young: I think about new members... hiow can they joint the CT group ?
*[13:08 SLT] Gally Young: Kire ツ
*[13:08 SLT] Kire Laasonen: I am not in the Mentor Linguist group
*[13:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: everyone who provides the name at the survey monkey link and who's added to the jira list of translators receives an invitation to the group afterwards (currently)
*[13:08 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Oh?
*[13:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: aw hehe ^^ that's no problem tho :-) we're open for anyone to join
*[13:08 SLT] Gally Young: it's not easy...
*[13:09 SLT] Zai Lynch: the comment above was related to the Second Life CT Projects group, not the mentor linguists group
*[13:09 SLT] Gally Young: the meeting is for everyone :)
*[13:09 SLT] Zai Lynch: yepp =)
*[13:10 SLT] Gally Young: join the CT group is harder than the mentor linguist... the two levels of power is also a good idea
*[13:10 SLT] Zai Lynch: i think, getting involved should be as easy as possible. to not scare people away
*[13:10 SLT] Gally Young: yes you're right
*[13:10 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Yes
*[13:11 SLT] Kire Laasonen: But the level of involvement should promote good willing people
*[13:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'm not sure if I understand. can you rephrase?
*[13:11 SLT] Kire Laasonen: You say there would be two levels
*[13:12 SLT] Kire Laasonen: The people who produce good quality translation should be encouraged
*[13:13 SLT] Gally Young: level 1 : every volunter // level 2 : people who have filled the survey )
*[13:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yes. there is some legal issue involved for providing translations to the KB. you need to agree to give linden lab the copyright on your translations. so having two group roles would be to distinguish the people who agreed to these conditions from the people who did not yet do so. it's not really something with power. more some sorting issue to know who is who
*[13:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: yes
*[13:13 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK
*[13:14 SLT] Kire Laasonen: My idea was that it would be nice to set up some reward
*[13:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah i see. i think that's what they are doing with the "translators of the month" or so
*[13:15 SLT] Kire Laasonen: :-)
*[13:15 SLT] Gally Young: mmm but not related to the group.. and it's beyond our power :)
*[13:16 SLT] Kire Laasonen: Yes, maybe LL should think about that
*[13:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: tho while it is rewarding people on one side, it might also discourige people on the other side, when they feel they did something importent but then aren't on that list. so it's a sword with two edges. but like gally said, that's not ours, maybe
*[13:16 SLT] Gally Young: LL have already created such a list )
*[13:16 SLT] Zai Lynch nods
*[13:17 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK
*[13:17 SLT] Zai Lynch: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Top_Contributors_to_the_Community_Translation_Project_for_French
*[13:17 SLT] Gally Young: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Translation_Project
*[13:18 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK I didnt know these pages
*[13:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok, i think we're through with the meeting then :-) will post chatlog and summary later tonight. and send the mail to lexie and danica, etc
*[13:19 SLT] Kire Laasonen: OK
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