Doc Team/2009-06-03

== Transcript ==
*[13:04 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: nods, happy with that knowledge
*[13:04 SLT] Jon Linden: the fruit's the most important part
*[13:04 SLT] Garry Linden: quite
*[13:04 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, soon we area ll over jon, eating him up :p
*[13:04 SLT] Torben Trautman: hi Jeremy
*[13:04 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torben Trautman has pinged you.
*[13:04 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hello!
*[13:04 SLT] Jeremy Linden: !
*[13:04 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey Jeremy!
*[13:04 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Youri Ashton has pinged you.
*[13:04 SLT] Torley Linden: so yes, welcome each & all to our office hour! any questions about the KB2Wiki Pilot before we continue onwards?
*[13:04 SLT] Jeremy Linden: My chair rezzed... and Garry in it!
*[13:05 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:05 SLT] Jon Linden: it's Ro!
*[13:05 SLT] Garry Linden: hostile take over jeremyy
*[13:05 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Garry Linden has pinged you.
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: and here's Rohit Linden in the house!
*[13:05 SLT] Jon Linden: i'm comforted by the fact that the rest of you can see my jello, at least
*[13:05 SLT] Jon Linden: that sounds ... weird
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: Rohit and Garry are very jovially making sure all of us stay on schedule :D
*[13:05 SLT] Torben Trautman: hiyas Rohit
*[13:05 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Where cna I get that Jello avatar?
*[13:05 SLT] Youri Ashton: welcome Rohit!
*[13:05 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: Makes me think of the creatures in Futurama
*[13:06 SLT] Kate Linden: Fritz is on his way
*[13:06 SLT] Torley Linden: brain slugs?
*[13:06 SLT] Garry Linden: most important question of the day mojito
*[13:06 SLT] Rohit Linden: Hi Everyone!
*[13:06 SLT] Rohit Linden: Thanks for the welcome
*[13:06 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: NO big jello monster, gelatious blob or something along those lines
*[13:06 SLT] Youri Ashton: ow Torley, nice video's on Youtube. great work on showing how to make that guitar play ona piano!
*[13:06 SLT] Jon Linden: i got this at grendel's children a while ago
*[13:06 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Hi Rohit
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: thx Youri, i prize articulate expressions :)
*[13:07 SLT] Jon Linden: i'd pass you a landmark, but i think they moved
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: anyone have any general Second Life help/knowledge/info questions for us? did you just come to hang out? (that's cool too)
*[13:07 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: sorry didn't mean to steal your chair, thought I'd make room for you in the Linden line over there
*[13:07 SLT] Torben Trautman: I have a question
*[13:08 SLT] Jon Linden: go ahead!
*[13:08 SLT] Torben Trautman: I stumbled over the voice FAQ
*[13:08 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Something in this sofa makes me drowsy
*[13:08 SLT] Youri Ashton: I placed a few comments aswell on your latest videos, think you know what my name there might be then :p
*[13:08 SLT] Torben Trautman: and it say that at the end of 2007 there will be some kind of a fee
*[13:08 SLT] Torben Trautman: for the owners of private regions and groups
*[13:08 SLT] Torben Trautman: *says
*[13:08 SLT] Qie Niangao: oh, hehehe... the old class 5 upgrade switcheroo. :p
*[13:09 SLT] Youri Ashton: so, what is the subject of today?
*[13:09 SLT] Youri Ashton: wb x
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Today's subject is special- We've got more Lindens here to answer your questions about the KB-to-Wiki pilot project we're running!
*[13:09 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=TO-WIKI
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Er, ignore the HUD :-P
*[13:10 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, that might be my hud :)
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: why this matters to you: Second Life Help will be easier to find and use and you can contribute to it (change things) if you notice mistakes and such.
*[13:10 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Uh,... what could possibly go wrong...
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: we're recording news and updates @ https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2Wiki_Pilot <-- central place for info, fitting to use the wiki itself... heh heh...
*[13:10 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey Fritz!
*[13:11 SLT] Fritz Linden: Hi!
*[13:11 SLT] Torben Trautman: Hi Fritz
*[13:11 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Put it on the fritz
*[13:11 SLT] Torley Linden: Mojito, historically a lot of things have gone right, which is why we're approaching this model.
*[13:11 SLT] Jon Linden: the gang's all here! or mostly here
*[13:11 SLT] Torley Linden: hola Fritz!
*[13:11 SLT] Collie Lindman: hi
*[13:11 SLT] xstorm Radek: hi Fritz welcome to second life
*[13:11 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: I was thinking of people upset about something (cough)AC(cough) messing with it
*[13:12 SLT] Jon Linden: not sure to what you're referring, mojito
*[13:12 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's just had display levels reset to his hardware configuration: It's entirely technical, that I se anyone here. Have they managed to fix Imposters?
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: Mojito, that's a common wiki fear but if you've seen our earlier post, you know it's substantially untrue. destructive edits can easily be rolled back.
*[13:12 SLT] Kate Linden: Mojita, can you expand on that thought?
*[13:12 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Just that I thionk you will have to keep an eye on them
*[13:12 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: To watch out for malicious things
*[13:13 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's often surprised how Wikis get away with existing.
*[13:13 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Some malcontent could mess up a lot, then you would have to go thru and fix it etc
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: in that respect, it'll be an expansion of what we've done before. and we can protect pages as-needed. fixing is a 2-click process.
*[13:13 SLT] Torben Trautman wonders if he just thought his question and scratches his head
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: we can ban someone and revert all destructive edits.
*[13:14 SLT] Jon Linden: torben, your question re: the voice FAQ: that's obviously some old info that just kind of decayed
*[13:14 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: You can always turn it off if it gets out of hand. Ok, never mind
*[13:14 SLT] Youri Ashton: Torley: well that should save a lot of problems in the future and less work for that matter, sounds god
*[13:14 SLT] Youri Ashton: good*
*[13:14 SLT] Torben Trautman: ty Jon
*[13:15 SLT] Jon Linden: we'll also have a set of non-Linden "reviewers" in place who can contribute meaningfully to page stability and accuracy
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: Mojito, in addition, positive contributors will help us keep an eye out for such things. if any of you have ever tried to mess with Wikipedia.org (on a much larger scale), you'll know the vast majority of destructive edits will be undone within seconds or minutes at the most.
*[13:15 SLT] Lara Shepherd: As I understood you hold back each revision until you looked over it, is that right? Will that be not a lot of work?
*[13:15 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: That is good to know
*[13:15 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Updates should not be THAT frequent
*[13:15 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen: (alright, afk for about ten minutes, just listening anyway)
*[13:16 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We'll also be empowering a group of volunteer Residents with the ability to review and publish articles that have been changed.
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: we use the same base Mediawiki software but are a much smaller Wiki, focusing of course on Second Life.
*[13:16 SLT] Becky Pippen: Is there an RSS feed for wiki updates (like the PJIRA has)?
*[13:16 SLT] Kate Linden: Have you had a chance to look at the Flagged Revs Configuration? https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Flagged_Revs_Configuration
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: YESSSS BECKY!!!!!!!SO GLAD YOU ASKED
*[13:16 SLT] Kate Linden: We're happy to answer questions about it.
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: cause i was just researching that. every single wiki page has an RSS feed. there's an overall RSS feed for ALL changes, and category-related ones too.
*[13:16 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: PJIRA has RSS? oo neat.
*[13:17 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth did not know this
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: so put those feeds in your aggregator or a display page like Netvibes -- our test @ http://netvibes.com/lindenlab -- and you can stay on top of updates at your convenience.
*[13:17 SLT] xstorm Radek: can there be a way to file a inworld Jira report
*[13:17 SLT] Youri Ashton: I tried to register several times now to wiki, but for some reason wiki doesnt like me very much and trows my account off every time
*[13:17 SLT] Lara Shepherd: you can watch each JIRA and you get an email when changes are made
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, more details please? what do you mean by "trows my account off"?
*[13:18 SLT] Youri Ashton: well, the next day it seems to be missing. not sure what is going on, but thats the case with every wiki i try to register
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: if you log into the Wiki, you should stay logged in for awhile. you will get auto-logged off eventually (for session security) but if it happens every few minutes, that's definitely not expected behavior.
*[13:19 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: All wiki software or just Linden wiki?
*[13:19 SLT] Youri Ashton: it aint that torley, its that my account seems to be gone the next day
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: i'm just speaking about ours.
*[13:19 SLT] Youri Ashton: ALL of them
*[13:19 SLT] Fritz Linden: maybe a name capitalization issue?
*[13:19 SLT] xstorm Radek: yes it has auto log off
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, this is http://wiki.secondlife.com you're referring to ,yes?
*[13:19 SLT] Jon Linden: youri, your SL wiki logon should be the same as your SL logon
*[13:19 SLT] Jon Linden: the fact that we're talking to you now seems to indicate that your login information is sound
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: you can't actually create a freeform username on our Wiki, by the way.
*[13:19 SLT] Youri Ashton: i tried registering past 4 weeks about 23 times now for the SL wiki, and every time my account is gone the next day
*[13:20 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: hehe
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, give us an URL please.
*[13:20 SLT] Youri Ashton: kk, hold on
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: if this is @ Wikia -- that's not us. and you should chat with the folks there for help. :)
*[13:20 SLT] Youri Ashton: im trying to register on this one: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Main_Page
*[13:20 SLT] xstorm Radek: ???? is that person going to shoot some one ?
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: ok Youri, so what do you click to register?
*[13:21 SLT] Youri Ashton: ill try agian, hold on
*[13:21 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I don't thinkanyone here can shoot much of anyone
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: please give exact and detailed steps so we can help you figure this out, Youri. :)
*[13:22 SLT] Fernando Weirman: ola pessoal
*[13:22 SLT] xstorm Radek: can we vote for a moving landing point ?
*[13:22 SLT] Garry Linden: ha, i like it.
*[13:22 SLT] Youri Ashton: either im going blind or the resiger button/link is gone o_0
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: there has never been a register link, Youri. are you sure you aren't thinking of a different wiki?
*[13:23 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: We like watching people drop in
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: at least we don't have a trap door moat under the rug. :)
*[13:23 SLT] Youri Ashton: logging in isnt working generally aswell
*[13:23 SLT] Rand Linden: Hey all...sorry i'm late!
*[13:23 SLT] Garry Linden: we dont!?!?
*[13:23 SLT] Kate Linden: hey Rand :)
*[13:23 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: I bet you do
*[13:23 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Rand
*[13:23 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Hi Rand
*[13:23 SLT] Youri Ashton: lemme try with the SL pass
*[13:23 SLT] xstorm Radek: Eren can you please move a little ?
*[13:24 SLT] xstorm Radek: ty
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, yes, it's the exact same Second Life name/password combo you use to get into SL.
*[13:24 SLT] Fernando Weirman: que lugar é esse?
*[13:24 SLT] Val Charlesworth: how can i use the stairs?
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: to those of you dropping in (heh heh) welcome to our office hours!
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: oh Val you can fly up instead of scaling the ladder, push the Fly button at the bottom of your Viewer window...
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: i see you flying now...
*[13:25 SLT] Youri Ashton: strange, it does work now
*[13:25 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Special:UserLogin&type=signup doesn't exist, so there really is no way to sign up.
*[13:25 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: You haven't put a TP in the ladder?
*[13:25 SLT] Torben Trautman: YAY!
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: we want to make sure we hear your curiosities/concerns about https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2Wiki_Pilot so if anything comes to mind, ask!
*[13:25 SLT] Youri Ashton: i wonder why it didnt work several times with SL name and pass
*[13:25 SLT] Collie Lindman: could i ask a quick question followed by a longer one?
*[13:25 SLT] Jon Linden: of course!
*[13:25 SLT] Jon Linden: that's what we're here for
*[13:26 SLT] Collie Lindman: ok, the quick one...
*[13:26 SLT] Collie Lindman: there's some great pics at startup/login
*[13:26 SLT] Collie Lindman: could the name of the place be put on there too?
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Login_screen :)
*[13:26 SLT] Fernando Weirman: belo avatar techwolf
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: ^ see that, one of the most popular questions i hear next to "can i play YouTube in SL?"
*[13:26 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo smiels
*[13:27 SLT] Collie Lindman: lol
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: short answer: maybe someday.
*[13:27 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:27 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo smiels "Thank you"
*[13:27 SLT] Collie Lindman: ok, and the longer one
*[13:27 SLT] Collie Lindman: uhm.. gangs in sl
*[13:27 SLT] Fernando Weirman: lol
*[13:28 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: gangs?
*[13:28 SLT] Collie Lindman: how can a group be abuse reported?
*[13:28 SLT] Collie Lindman: yes. some groups are just gangs out to make trouble
*[13:28 SLT] Jon Linden: if only colton were here
*[13:28 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: Speaking of the startup pics. I heard a comment where much better quility ones could be make and place there.
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: aye... Colton often is!
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: COllie: If a group needs to be reported, then I usually addin ALL names in the same report
*[13:29 SLT] Jon Linden: generally speaking, disciplinary action can only be taken when someone actually does something wrong
*[13:29 SLT] Torben Trautman: that´s a great question for the new Second Life Answers in the blogs :)
*[13:29 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Might be a lot
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: colton often poofs soon after aswell :p
*[13:29 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: At least mention the name of the group. Then LL can look up all the members
*[13:29 SLT] Qie Niangao was always suspicious of those shifty Battery Street Irregulars
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: yes -- report specifically who is causing problems. even if they all belong to the same group, there might be some nice (non-abusive) people in that group who don't deserve to get stained with the same generalization.
*[13:29 SLT] Jon Linden: any other questions?
*[13:30 SLT] Jon Linden: we have plenty of Lindens here who are working on the KB-to-wiki migration
*[13:30 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=TO-WIKI
*[13:30 SLT] Collie Lindman: well let's say a group of 20 people go about disrupting an event... all the same group
*[13:30 SLT] Jeremy Linden turns off that script.
*[13:30 SLT] Qie Niangao: about the KB-to-Wiki... is there anything we residents can be doing now to help? or is it sort of wait until some of the existing KB is migrated?
*[13:30 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=TO-WIKI...
*[13:30 SLT] Jon Linden: we can take any questions or concerns you have
*[13:30 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wans to sart a group to grief people, by inviting thm to join
*[13:30 SLT] Torben Trautman: How will you decide who gets the "Reviewer" status on the wiki?
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: good Q
*[13:30 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth: Still griefing Arawn, I wouldn't recommend it.
*[13:30 SLT] Rohit Linden: Also, regarding Abuse Reports, just in case you missed it, there was a great blog post from Courtney here: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/05/19/just-one-of-those-days
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: @Qie right now we certainly welcome any experiences with the Wiki the way it is, and questions/comments about our proposed Flagged Reviews configuration.
*[13:31 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: How do we know that abuse reports have not been sent to /dev/null?
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: that config will directly affect anyone who wants to be a reviewer.
*[13:31 SLT] Youri Ashton: the most griefers just go to Waterhead, its usually filled with griefers there
*[13:31 SLT] Jon Linden: we'll also be publishing a style guide soon
*[13:31 SLT] Jon Linden: it contains helpful guidelines on all sorts of language and formatting
*[13:31 SLT] Kate Linden: Similarly, we are interested to communicate with creators who plan to use the KB wiki links inworld.
*[13:31 SLT] Qie Niangao: ah, okay. so guess it helps to know about wiki configurations in general.
*[13:32 SLT] Youri Ashton: from people that use verbal abuse, to people that keep pushing even after asking them not to, using weapons, etc
*[13:32 SLT] Jon Linden: ever wondered what we consider a "dialog" or a "window"? wonder no longer!
*[13:32 SLT] Qie Niangao: ooooo
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: aye, the style guide is pretty nifty... it's an adapted version of the very style Doc Team has used to create articles, as well as Wiki-foo stuff.
*[13:32 SLT] Jon Linden: should i bold that button name? what about tabs?
*[13:32 SLT] Jon Linden: the style guide answers this as well!
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: indeed!
*[13:32 SLT] Basic Chair: Right click me and choose 'Sit Here' to sit down
*[13:32 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Quite a sales pitch!
*[13:32 SLT] Jon Linden: torben, as to who will constitute reviewers -- good question
*[13:33 SLT] Jon Linden: anyone else on the team can correct me here if i'm wrong, but --
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: if you ever get anxious and wonder what the latest news is, we absolutely promise to keep updating http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2Wiki_Pilot (FlaggedRevs link is there, Style Guide will be added, as will future blog posts, and today's office hours transcript!)
*[13:33 SLT] Torben Trautman: I mean there´s these powerusers like Zai
*[13:33 SLT] Qie Niangao: Kate, about that use of links in-world... I'd like to pimp a jira, SVC-4321 ... which is making for serious kludginess in an in-world wiki-to-media installation, for internationalized wiki content.
*[13:33 SLT] Collie Lindman: actually kate, i plan to open an info center very soon and maybe news of KB updates would be good
*[13:33 SLT] Jon Linden: i think at the beginning, we'll be selecting highly active, positive wiki contributors
*[13:33 SLT] Jon Linden: over time, this group will be made able to grow itself by adding new members
*[13:34 SLT] Kate Linden: Collie you will be able to access the KB articles on the wiki from inworld search also :)
*[13:34 SLT] Jon Linden: i forget whether we Lindens will add them, or if the reviewer group can add members to itself
*[13:34 SLT] Jon Linden: anyone else know? have we decided this part yet?
*[13:34 SLT] Jon Linden: it's possible we did and i just forgot
*[13:34 SLT] Kate Linden: Qie *looks*
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: yes, more people can opt-in and grow to become reviewers. all of us are new at one point, so existing reviewers can help others (as active wiki contributors already have, informally).
*[13:34 SLT] Jon Linden: jello isn't great at permanent memory storage
*[13:34 SLT] Dawny Daviau: ello all
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: hehe i seem to recall having both makes sense from a scalability standpoint.
*[13:34 SLT] Rand Linden: I believe only Lindens will be able to promote someone to Reviewer
*[13:35 SLT] xstorm Radek: a linden never forgets they just have a new memory chip in for that day
*[13:35 SLT] Torben Trautman: only Lindens makes sense to me
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: but that's something further-off because there are really not going to be a lot of Reviewers initially.
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: so let's leave that open.
*[13:35 SLT] Fritz Linden: There are also ways for us to automate promotion based on number of useful edits contributed, but I think we're looking to do it manually for a while first
*[13:35 SLT] Qie Niangao: (Kate, there's a workaround, which is to tinyurl all the multi-byte language anchors, but that's an extra step)
*[13:35 SLT] Rand Linden: That's right, Fritz
*[13:36 SLT] Rohit Linden: /We are hopeful that this goes well. I know the Doc Team has been awesome at including all of you every step of the way!
*[13:36 SLT] Kate Linden: Qie, that workaround was my first thought,and am glad that helps.
*[13:36 SLT] Riven Homewood: I came in a bit late - sorry - what will the reviewers be doing on the wiki? Will they be reviewing wiki posts or submitting some sort of review articles?
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: *looks at SVC-4321*
*[13:36 SLT] Rohit Linden: /In terms of keeping you all in the loop as we make plans.
*[13:37 SLT] Jon Linden: riven, reviewers will be a new class of wiki user responsible for making sure the material from the KB is accurate and up to date
*[13:37 SLT] Riven Homewood: thanks
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: and Riven, if you want more details, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2Wiki_Pilot :)
*[13:37 SLT] Fritz Linden: Links to localized content is an obvious pain point, but is certainly something that we're looking at more
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: share that link with curious friends!
*[13:37 SLT] Jon Linden: the FlaggedRevs extension makes it possible, for which Rand and Fritz (and others) deserve much credit
*[13:37 SLT] Torben Trautman: will the translated parts of the KB get the flagged reviews too?
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: *clapclapclap*
*[13:37 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: :)
*[13:37 SLT] Torben Trautman: like the german knowledge base for example?
*[13:38 SLT] Jon Linden: i think we can extend it to cover the translated parts
*[13:38 SLT] Jon Linden: rand/fritz?
*[13:38 SLT] Youri Ashton: I been suggesting a profile for every user on wiki and SL, a profile people can fill in themselfs and people can addin a few lines to tell their thing about that person. any news on that?
*[13:38 SLT] Rand Linden: Torben, that's a good question. ... I don't see why not./
*[13:38 SLT] Collie Lindman: maybe a rating for most helpfull KB articles?
*[13:38 SLT] Lara Shepherd: that is already there Youri
*[13:38 SLT] Riven Homewood: Don't we already have a profile on SL?
*[13:38 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, we are not talking in dutch :p
*[13:38 SLT] Rand Linden: Non-English articles should be treated the same as their English counterparits, IMO
*[13:38 SLT] Fritz Linden: I'm pretty sure our international Lindens are excited to use it as part of their text approval workflow... so I'm not sure if it'll be exactly the same as the english sicde, but it'll get used
*[13:39 SLT] xstorm Radek: OMG!! a profile whats that ;-)
*[13:39 SLT] Torben Trautman: it would have an influence on the number and kind of reviewers you need
*[13:39 SLT] Qie Niangao: (drat... RL calls. Looking forward to working on the KB Wiki stuff when I can. Have fun, all)
*[13:39 SLT] Fritz Linden: they have their own layers of editors, so we'll be figuring out how to work that in
*[13:39 SLT] Youri Ashton: same thing as the SL profile, but then a little more extra things
*[13:39 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth: Cya Qie.
*[13:39 SLT] Kate Linden: Thank you for joining us Qie
*[13:39 SLT] Jon Linden: be well, qie
*[13:39 SLT] Rand Linden: Note the wiki also has user pages, e.g. User:Zai Lynch
*[13:39 SLT] Youri Ashton: could be fun for those that want to addin more info
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: take care Qie!
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: yes -- you can currently fill out your User: page with all sorts of fun stuff.
*[13:40 SLT] Youri Ashton: even could link the SL profile to the wiki profile so people can see that aswell
*[13:40 SLT] xstorm Radek: what about another set of tick buttons'
*[13:40 SLT] Torben Trautman: I believe I have the wikipage with the most userboxes
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:FIRSTNAME_LASTNAME
*[13:40 SLT] Garry Linden: User: garry linden, awesome
*[13:40 SLT] Youri Ashton: i know Torley, but that isnt a advanced styled profile, pertty much basic even
*[13:40 SLT] Arawn Spitteler woners ifPrado meant to offer friendship, or intended to click onsomeone else?
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: Torben i like how your badges are like Wikipedia's :)
*[13:40 SLT] Torben Trautman: :)
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, that's up to the person making the page. they can style it in many ways as they choose.
*[13:41 SLT] Collie Lindman: i can't get used to the idea of more than one awesomeness
*[13:41 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth is going to head out, as this isn't exactly his area of expertise anyway.
*[13:41 SLT] xstorm Radek: ok if there is another set of tick boc or buttons to define a search better
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: there is no charge for awesome ^_^
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: t'care Mal, nice to see ya :)
*[13:41 SLT] Youri Ashton: cya mal!
*[13:41 SLT] Malarthi Behemoth: Cya all, thanks Torley.
*[13:41 SLT] Das Wade: Hi Everyone
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: we've requested google search for the wiki, xstorm.
*[13:41 SLT] Youri Ashton: hi das
*[13:42 SLT] Simon Kline: zai! ^_^
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: we have it on our internal company wiki.
*[13:42 SLT] Zai Lynch: ellowww =) i'm late ^^
*[13:42 SLT] Torben Trautman: huhu Zai
*[13:42 SLT] Zai Lynch waves
*[13:42 SLT] Lara Shepherd: hey Zai :)
*[13:42 SLT] Rand Linden: Howdy, Zai!
*[13:42 SLT] Youri Ashton: nice birdy, can i roast you. me hungry :p
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: heyyy Zai!
*[13:42 SLT] Kate Linden: Hey Zai, glad you made it :)
*[13:42 SLT] xstorm Radek: yes but it will not work inworld will it
*[13:42 SLT] Zai Lynch: heyas lara! rand, kate! =) all others who haven't rezzed yet
*[13:42 SLT] Das Wade: Youri, please dont make me give you reason to AR Me
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: xstorm, you can currently search the wiki using Search's All tab.
*[13:42 SLT] Dawny Daviau: hiya Zai :)
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: and it uses Google Search Appliance, so yes, boolean operators do work.
*[13:42 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[13:43 SLT] Kate Linden listens for the sound of unfolding note paper and preps for Zai's questions.
*[13:43 SLT] Dawny Daviau: lol
*[13:43 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^;
*[13:43 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol, sorry Das, was ment as a joke. sorry if i offended you with it, was not my intention
*[13:43 SLT] xstorm Radek: no a more define search not a all search
*[13:43 SLT] Das Wade: I meant it as a joke my friend too ;P
*[13:44 SLT] Kate Linden: Hey Colton
*[13:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: there were actually new ones comin to my mind after the post ^^ not sure whats already answered. btw: thx rand for the flagged revs page!!!
*[13:44 SLT] xstorm Radek: say you wish to look for just one item or line
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: xstorm, more details please? what do you want to narrow down on?
*[13:44 SLT] Colton Linden: Hia :)
*[13:44 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey colton!
*[13:44 SLT] Das Wade: Hi Colton
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai, Style Guide is coming up soon too. i'm sure that'll interest you. :D
*[13:44 SLT] Rand Linden: yw!
*[13:44 SLT] xstorm Radek: but you do not remember it
*[13:44 SLT] Kate Linden: More goodies coming soon Zai. style guide page yummmm
*[13:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: definatly! =)
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: any questions/suggestions for betterment, as always, LET US KNOW hehe
*[13:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay!
*[13:44 SLT] xstorm Radek: so the tick box will have a list of that field in it
*[13:44 SLT] Torben Trautman: watch out Das, Zai hasn´t had supper yet and I saw her paws reach for you
*[13:45 SLT] Das Wade: llol
*[13:45 SLT] xstorm Radek: so you just click that field and go from there
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: Zai is lookin' furry today but still the same unique eyes :)
*[13:45 SLT] Zai Lynch: i was wondering... will the KB articles be marked in any way as "official" info, besides the KB category? I was thinking about this since I can't see anymore why we should have two different help resources in the wiki. help portal and KB. maybe it can be merged
*[13:45 SLT] Zai Lynch: hehe
*[13:46 SLT] Rand Linden: Good question, Zai...we've discussed some kind of marker to designate such articles...
*[13:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: like a floating icon in the upper right or something?
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: and over time it seems like a natural consequence to merge, article by article.
*[13:46 SLT] Garry Linden: garry giving the thumbs up, 'garry approved'
*[13:46 SLT] Zai Lynch nods
*[13:47 SLT] Rand Linden: However, I don't believe there is any way for us prrevent anyone from using same on ANY (un-revision controlled) article...other than simply watching revisions
*[13:47 SLT] Rand Linden: I do think it makes sense, but its just a matter of being able to manage it...
*[13:47 SLT] Youri Ashton: Fritz, your a cloud :p
*[13:47 SLT] Youri Ashton: and wb :)
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: and protected pages when necessary, for those legal and policy articles that ASBOLUTELY must be accurate
*[13:47 SLT] Rand Linden: so that the designation actually has some meaning :-)
*[13:47 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm... is true...
*[13:48 SLT] Riven Homewood: Yes, I really agree with Torley on that point about protected pages for official information
*[13:49 SLT] Zai Lynch: at the moment, at translated pages, we marked KB articles with a (KB) as part of the name. like @ wikipedia with disambiguation pages. a template could detect if an article has this ending and only allow the KB icon when the article contains (KB). but in the long run... when it will be merged anyway, this might become more of a pain than a gain
*[13:49 SLT] Youri Ashton: protecting the pages is indeed a good idea, before any griefer gets it in his mind to change them
*[13:50 SLT] Zai Lynch: the revision controle should take care of most of that
*[13:50 SLT] Jon Linden: zai's notion is an interesting one we should revisit once the migration has occurred and things become (more or less) stable
*[13:50 SLT] Youri Ashton: i hope, if not, everything could be gone
*[13:51 SLT] Riven Homewood: Do you want to be constantly scanning and reverting pages with LL's official definitons and rules?
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: always remember: any destructive wiki edits are super-easy to undo. every wiki page has a history of changes.
*[13:51 SLT] Jon Linden: youri, mediawiki makes this basically impossible
*[13:51 SLT] Jon Linden: what torley said
*[13:51 SLT] Jon Linden: riven, those pages will be absolutely protected
*[13:51 SLT] Rand Linden: Yes, though if I understand correctly, it depends on a naming scheme--so we'd need to rename all the aritlces if we were going to do that.
*[13:51 SLT] Jon Linden: kate makes a good distinction between articles that discuss our product, as opposed to articles that discuss our service
*[13:51 SLT] xstorm Radek: Torley what about a delete from server type of error ?
*[13:52 SLT] Youri Ashton: still, there just has to be 1 smart griefer that can do it without it being able to return to what it suppost to be, and everything is gone. its just a matter of time if things are not locked up as they should be
*[13:52 SLT] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)Jeremy Linden 21:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: xstorm, highly improbable due to backups.
*[13:52 SLT] Youri Ashton: and yes, it might be a worst case scenario, but think about it, not impossible
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: xstorm, plus, Google caches pages (as does the Wayback Machine and others...)
*[13:52 SLT] Jon Linden: youri: seriously, it can't happen
*[13:52 SLT] xstorm Radek: try saying at to my inventory from 2007 *GIGGLES* :)Jeremy Linden 21:06, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
*[13:52 SLT] Fritz Linden: and adding things to the URL does weird things with Template: Multi-lang
*[13:53 SLT] Youri Ashton: Jon, if the Pentagon can be hacked by a kid that doesnt even know what he is doing, then its a real possibility that the wiki can get the same thing ;)
*[13:53 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm... we modded template multi lang in a way
*[13:53 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, that's not an accurate comparison.
*[13:53 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: A Linden might e ableto do it, but that's just cost ofdoing buisiness.
*[13:53 SLT] Zai Lynch: we can have for example pages with translated pagenames rather than the Name/de scheme
*[13:53 SLT] xstorm Radek: yep
*[13:53 SLT] Jon Linden: that's not actually a good analogy, youri
*[13:53 SLT] Fritz Linden: Zai: good to know
*[13:54 SLT] Das Wade: Open source = Open Hack
*[13:54 SLT] Collie Lindman: what about if articles were submitted "awaiting approval"?
*[13:54 SLT] Laurent Bechir: isn't translated pagename what is on now, since you're supposed ti rename the page once translated ?
*[13:54 SLT] Jeremy Linden: The whole point of a wiki is that anyone can make changes to it. If we locked down ours, we'd lose an unbelievable amount of good information from helpful Residents.
*[13:54 SLT] xstorm Radek: well when it seems people mix up https and http may be there is some thing to be looked at
*[13:54 SLT] Youri Ashton: still, was just thinking out loud. just want to be sure about it all. since it can be a real pain to get it all back.
*[13:54 SLT] Zai Lynch: what we're doing is, we're taking the english page as a base page and make subpages of the Name/ISO scheme. and these redirect to the translated articles. at the translated articles, we tell the article which is the english parent. that's basically the way it works. i can write a more detailed documentation for the feature in case you need it
*[13:55 SLT] Fritz Linden: nah, that makes sense
*[13:55 SLT] Riven Homewood: Sounds very cool, Zai
*[13:55 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay ^_^ think it was strife's idea
*[13:55 SLT] Torben Trautman gotta run
*[13:55 SLT] Torben Trautman: bye everybody
*[13:55 SLT] Torben Trautman waves
*[13:55 SLT] xstorm Radek: i have seen a number of times when people in LL have mix up http and https in a meeting
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, i'd suggest learning more about wikis, it'll help you understand a lot better and clarify any misunderstandings you have. such as: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Wiki_myths_busted
*[13:55 SLT] Youri Ashton: bye torben
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: cheerio Torben!
*[13:56 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Bye Torben
*[13:56 SLT] Rand Linden: Zai, I would love to understand the localization process on the wiki better...
*[13:56 SLT] Riven Homewood: Having a wiki open to user additions is the real strength of a wiki - but without the kind of safeguards you'
*[13:56 SLT] Youri Ashton: tnx Torley, ill read that later on
*[13:56 SLT] Rand Linden: If you would write it up, that would be Awesome!
*[13:56 SLT] Riven Homewood: describe and a good search engine, a wiki is just a bunch of unrelated, unreliable information
*[13:56 SLT] xstorm Radek: whats to say that http sub link in sl is safe ?
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: one of the biggest misconceptions about anything open source is "OMG ANARCHY!" that simply isn't true due to the human interactive processes involved.
*[13:56 SLT] Fritz Linden: fyi, we're weighing how to handle article name collisions between existing articles and kb content being moveed and making sure it makes sense in context with breaking as few multilang links as possible
*[13:57 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh I can try to tell :-) anything in particular that you're curious about? the KB translation project or Project:Languages in general?
*[13:57 SLT] Das Wade: Torley, please tell that to the companies using open source CMS in the UK that got hacked last month
*[13:57 SLT] Rand Linden: Zai--my interest is mostly in the KB translation project, but the general stuff is good, too
*[13:57 SLT] Laurent Bechir: cathedral and thz bazar is a good way to learn about open source
*[13:58 SLT] Fritz Linden: there is a 90&+ likelihood that I'll be putting the lang templates at the bottom of the article convesions aotumatically
*[13:58 SLT] Zai Lynch: @Fritz: as far as I can see, there won't be collisions. the KB article names tend to be very long. like "I got problems with my PayPal, how I can I solve it?" or something. wiki article names atm are way shorter. like just "PayPal" (we don't have such an article, though in case we had one)
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: Das, there are specific instances but that's too much of a generalization to be useful -- more details required to substantiate what actually happened.
*[13:58 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Well the pentagon got hacked and they didn't use open soruce software.. *giggles*
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: @Laurent i was about to namedrop Eric Raymond!
*[13:58 SLT] xstorm Radek: it be nice to see stronger step when it comes to sl
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: no Brota, that's not accurate. they do use some Linux for specific things like battlefield simulations.
*[13:59 SLT] Fritz Linden: and yes, we're going to use your note templates as well :)
*[13:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: @Rand: we're having a set of templates ( Template:Kbl10n and all sub templates). these provide documentation as well as multi-lang like language bars. they store the related jiras and translation pages and (depending on the parameter they called with) they display different information
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: there are sensationalist headlines which aren't useful at all -- so when it comes to addressing fears and such, always, *always* substantiate details. no rumors, just actionable followup.
*[13:59 SLT] Techwolf Lupindo: Open source can be good and bad. Good in the way communites can come together and hack stuff up. Bad in the sort of way that it can expose the company of there rather poor intenerial polisies and procedures. The pjira is loaded with patches that have sat for over a year.
*[14:00 SLT] Das Wade: As a web developer, the hacks are 100% due to bad programming practice or lack of knowledge
*[14:00 SLT] Zai Lynch: best to look up Template:Kbl10n. i tried to write a detailed documentation for that at the template page
*[14:00 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Bill Gates bank account got hacked, is that using open source? Point is opensource or not stuff get's hacked from time to time, backup and stop the fear mongering
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: anyways, im heading to the next meeting. thanks for the meeting Doc team and other Lindens!
*[14:00 SLT] Rand Linden: @Zai - thx, wil do
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: there are different methodologies to "open source" too, just like there are different kinds of people in Canada :) so again, CBCB.
*[14:00 SLT] Kate Linden: Youri, thanks for joining us.
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: always a pleasure!
*[14:01 SLT] Riven Homewood: I'm off too - bye everyone, this was really interesting
*[14:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: welcome =) ping me on my talkpage or via mail ZaiLynch@web.de in case you got any questions about it.
*[14:01 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks for being with us Riven!
*[14:01 SLT] xstorm Radek: second life is not a game it is a 3D VR world for companys with lots of money and time invested is it not better to look at the http links and think about making them https ?
*[14:01 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Doc Team is here at the same time every week; if you found this office hour interesting, we'd love to have you back!
*[14:02 SLT] Torley Linden: any flaws of a given tool must be weighed within the entire totality of how we've benefited...
*[14:02 SLT] Arawn Spitteler stil has o downoad the open ource client, to start learning Python
*[14:02 SLT] Torley Linden: indeed, join us again for another thought-provoking office hour!
*[14:02 SLT] Mojito Sorbet: Abd thank you for showing up! (some Lindens dont)
*[14:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: :-O
*[14:02 SLT] Kate Linden: Thanks to the KB migration team for joining us as well. Rohit, Fritz, Garry, Rand plus Doc Team. Also Yoz is on the team also!
*[14:02 SLT] Rohit Linden: /Okay thanks everyone! It was great to be here.
*[14:03 SLT] Jon Linden: many of us will be back next week, as always
*[14:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: oohh yuss, he's taking care of the search engine. sooo lookin forward to that =)
*[14:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: kudos @ yoz
*[14:03 SLT] Kate Linden: :)
*[14:03 SLT] Rand Linden: yes!
*[14:03 SLT] Torley Linden: Janee, that looks like my Cobraring 2 in your profile! :) am i correct?
*[14:04 SLT] Rohit Linden: zai: definitely have to love yoz for his work on that... we give him lots of love for his contributions.
*[14:04 SLT] Janee Bonde: cobraring ?
*[14:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay! ^_^
*[14:04 SLT] Torley Linden: Janee, WindLight sky setting. :)
*[14:04 SLT] Jon Linden: i've got to take off! be well, everyone!
*[14:04 SLT] Janee Bonde: ah ! slaps forehead... loooove your wl !!!!
*[14:04 SLT] Rand Linden: Gracias a todos....adios!
*[14:04 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: when are they going to be transfarreable items? :)
*[14:05 SLT] Laurent Bechir: bye and thank you
*[14:05 SLT] Simon Kline: i better go too, take care all :D
*[14:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: bye! :-)
*[14:05 SLT] Becky Pippen: thanks guys! take care
*[14:05 SLT] Torley Linden: oh i don't know Brota, i haven't given up hope on that tho. =)
*[14:05 SLT] Kate Linden: Great to see everyone. Thanks for joining us today!
*[14:05 SLT] Garry Linden: thanks all! dance party?
*[14:05 SLT] Kate Linden: dance party!
*[14:05 SLT] Torley Linden gets up to... get down
*[14:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[14:05 SLT] Brota Kornfeld: Would be very cool
*[14:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Alright, I gotta wrap up this transcript so I can get to my next meeting!
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