Open Source Meeting/2010-02-04

== Transcript ==
*[13:58] Merov Linden just waiting for 2pm to struck
*[13:58] Merov Linden: guys... we're using text chat here traditionaly
*[13:58] Merov Linden: not voice
*[13:59] xstorm Radek: Merov did you know that the test snowglobe viwer will crash every time i go in to texture look up to add to a objet ?
*[13:59] Jude Towton: Is that spin the prim in the middle there?
*[13:59] Merov Linden: xstorm: I didn't. did you log this?
*[14:00] Jude Towton: Oh, blast...X, did you happen to log the chat at Jack's non meeting?
*[14:00] xstorm Radek: its not making a crash report or dump log
*[14:00] Merov Linden: impressive landing Robin :)
*[14:00] Robin Cornelius: heh, removeRegion() issues
*[14:00] Merov Linden: ok, it's 2pm
*[14:00] Jude Towton: Mmm, the sexy short-skirted Chaley
*[14:01] Merov Linden: and Thursday
*[14:01] xstorm Radek: hi Techwolf
*[14:01] Merov Linden: so must be Hippo meeting time :)
*[14:01] Merov Linden: Agenda:
*[14:01] Techwolf Lupindo: i'me here for once
*[14:01] Merov Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
*[14:01] Robin Cornelius: oh i need to ask, exactly how annoyed is soft with me for starting *that* thread recently on sldev?
*[14:01] Merov Linden: *that*?
*[14:01] xstorm Radek: i think we are going to have a messy meeting to day
*[14:02] Robin Cornelius: sldev osdev openviewerdev what can we call the mailing list ;-p
*[14:02] Robin Cornelius: hehe
*[14:02] Pixel Gausman: Robin: troublemaker.
*[14:02] Merov Linden puts on god mode
*[14:02] Robin Cornelius: i only asked is it being renamed
*[14:02] xstorm Radek: ;-)
*[14:02] Techwolf Lupindo: hehe
*[14:02] Jude Towton hides
*[14:02] Merov Linden: it's on the agenda (last item)
*[14:02] xstorm Radek: Drew hi hi
*[14:02] Merov Linden: let's discuss that then
*[14:03] Drew Dwi: hello
*[14:03] Drew Dwi: first time making one of these :o
*[14:03] Merov Linden: k, not much Linden today
*[14:03] Merov Linden: first agenda item: 1.3 show stoppers
*[14:03] xstorm Radek: Drew how do you log a bug thats not making logs or dump logs ?
*[14:04] Robin Cornelius: xstorm i have a whole plan for that
*[14:04] Robin Cornelius: this deadlock bug(s)
*[14:04] Robin Cornelius: so we have potential solutions
*[14:04] xstorm Radek: the test snowglobe has a texture bug
*[14:04] Robin Cornelius: merov has ported from 2.0, has a no thread solution as well, i've got a try lock solution
*[14:05] Merov Linden: I saw your patch on SNOW-196 Robin
*[14:05] Deadlock in LLTextureFetchWorker::lockWorkMutex / LLThread::lockData / LLTextureFetch::lockQueue
*[14:05] Merov Linden: as well as Aleric's patch
*[14:05] Merov Linden: Thickbrick did comment on my SNOW-457 patch
*[14:05] 3119 constantly hangs when trying to render a sim with a large amount of objects.
*[14:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think if Robin's patch does it, that would be better than the partial merge from 2.0
*[14:06] Merov Linden: we need to sort all of this so that:
*[14:06] Merov Linden: 1) we agree on something to commit that has a chance to fix the problem
*[14:06] Merov Linden: 2) build new RC for more people to test
*[14:06] Robin Cornelius: i was also using Alerics v2 patch on 196 in conjuction with mine
*[14:07] Merov Linden: Yeap, I think I'm going to follow you guys here with SNOW-196
*[14:07] xstorm Radek: well unless some one can fix the texture lookup add to object problems i can not test or use the test snowglobe
*[14:07] Pixel Gausman: Merov: what was your experience of porting 2.0? was it messy?
*[14:07] Pixel Gausman: porting the texture fetch, that is
*[14:08] Merov Linden: it's always difficult to do partial merge and surgery
*[14:08] Thickbrick Sleaford: that's why it's scary doing that so soon before a release
*[14:08] Pixel Gausman: Merov: so your opinion is we commit a SNOW-196 patch and try that?
*[14:08] Merov Linden: as Thickbrick's (excellent) comments show, I may have made some mistakes
*[14:09] Ardy Lay: Sounds like xstorm is having a different problem.
*[14:09] Merov Linden: it's an error prone process and why I hate it
*[14:09] Pixel Gausman nods
*[14:09] Merov Linden: xstorm: have you logged your bug?
*[14:09] xstorm Radek: i think it will help if when you click on the texture tab and then do a texture search that a default texture will be a better start
*[14:10] Merov Linden thinks his question will never be answered....
*[14:10] xstorm Radek: only way to log the bug is to do a jira saying it crash on texture search
*[14:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: xstorm: it crashse, or freezes?
*[14:11] xstorm Radek: but with out a dump log what good is that ?
*[14:11] Merov Linden: please, do that xstorm
*[14:11] Merov Linden: just a repro case is good
*[14:11] xstorm Radek: freezes and crash and some times bluescreens
*[14:11] Merov Linden: otherwise, how can we know it happens (unless we tried)
*[14:11] Techwolf Lupindo: Yes. I can try to repro a few things sence I have the rest of the day off here and online also.
*[14:11] Merov Linden: thanks Techwolf!
*[14:12] xstorm Radek: i have over 2000 textures
*[14:12] Merov Linden: so, back to strategy to commit something for those show stoppers
*[14:12] Merov Linden: I propose to go with the SNOW-196 patches from Aleric and Robin
*[14:12] Merov Linden: one question though: did you guy rolled back svn rev 3110?
*[14:12] xstorm Radek: i think last count was like 40000 textures i had
*[14:13] Ardy Lay: 40,000?
*[14:13] xstorm Radek: yep
*[14:13] Ardy Lay: Not sure I can find that many to do repros with.
*[14:13] Robin Cornelius: no i just applied mine and alerics on top of trunk, but there was a hunk conflict with alerics from baos update
*[14:13] Ardy Lay: I generally keep them in containers.
*[14:14] Merov Linden: hmm...
*[14:14] xstorm Radek: yes i may have to do that
*[14:14] xstorm Radek: my inventory is just a bit over 90k
*[14:14] Merov Linden: bao's update: I don't recall bao making a commit
*[14:15] Tillie Ariantho: Maybe it's just the sheer number of textures that make the client crash? list limit or something?
*[14:15] Robin Cornelius: it was not directly from bao
*[14:15] Ardy Lay: xstorm, describe it in a report in JIRA project SNOW and tell us there what you are telling us now.
*[14:15] Robin Cornelius: checks logs
*[14:15] xstorm Radek: ok will do :-)
*[14:15] Ardy Lay: xstorm, thanks.
*[14:15] xstorm Radek: yw and a honor :-)
*[14:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, Aleric's patch from SNOW-196 re-implemented SNOW-434 in onw of it's hunks
*[14:15] Unsafe threaded operation in lltexturefetch.cpp can result in unsatisfied texture fetch requests and possible memory corruption
*[14:16] Thickbrick Sleaford: I think Aleric was working with a lisghtly stale trunk and re-did that part
*[14:16] Ardy Lay: Also include the text from Help -> About Snowglobe, all of it from the top frame.
*[14:16] Merov Linden: ok, I see
*[14:16] Thickbrick Sleaford: but it's just 4-5 lines
*[14:17] Merov Linden: yeah but that's such a brittle part of the code... 4 lines can make a hell of a diference
*[14:17] xstorm Radek: oh lol i get a lot of ???? from snowglobe about my server
*[14:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: the only difference is variable names, IIRC
*[14:17] Robin Cornelius: in this case you can rebase by eye quite safley for that hunk
*[14:17] xstorm Radek: but will do
*[14:18] Merov Linden: OK, so, let's get to a commit of 196 in trunk and 1.3
*[14:18] Merov Linden: Thickbrick and Robin, do you want to get that under way?
*[14:18] Merov Linden: I'll clean up my 457 patch some more to answer Thickbrick's point
*[14:19] Robin Cornelius: just to clarify, we are pulling in alerics v2 patch (with the fixed hunk) and my trylock patch?
*[14:19] Merov Linden: yes
*[14:19] Merov Linden: exactly
*[14:19] Thickbrick Sleaford: I haven't yet tested Robin's patch (building right now), but it looks good to me
*[14:19] Merov Linden: the patches you guys have been running with successfully for a while (apparently)
*[14:20] Merov Linden: I have been running with no lock either with my 457 patch
*[14:20] Robin Cornelius: i was getting reliable deadlocks without my patch, and not reproduced since with, i did a paper analysis and looked and the mutex lock order for all of lltexturefetch.cpp
*[14:20] Merov Linden: god, that *should be* documented somewhere
*[14:20] Robin Cornelius: all functions EXCEPT doWork lock queueMutex then work mutex
*[14:21] Merov Linden: this mutexes and the memory they guards is so confusing
*[14:21] Robin Cornelius: doWork on one code patch locks workmutex then queuemutex
*[14:21] Robin Cornelius: s/patch/path/
*[14:21] Boroondas Gupte: I've tested your patch for about 3 hours, Merov. Didn't notice anything negative. Though I haven't yet experienced these deadlocks in the first place, I guess.
*[14:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: Robin, can you put that paper analysis on pixels somwhere?
*[14:21] Merov Linden: I got deadlocks without the patches going to heavy built regions and putting draw distance to a high value
*[14:22] Robin Cornelius: I can, i've specificly looked at queue and work mutexs only and only recorded which functions use which of those two and what other functions they call
*[14:22] Merov Linden: pushing draw distance is a good way to get deadlocks with the current RC
*[14:22] Robin Cornelius: so its not amazing stuff
*[14:23] Robin Cornelius: i have been running max draw distance painlessly since
*[14:23] Boroondas Gupte: I'll try if I can repro with the unpatched viewer & maxed draw distance, then
*[14:23] Merov Linden: painlesssly? really?
*[14:23] Robin Cornelius: clear cache as well
*[14:23] Merov Linden: like: no lag? :)
*[14:23] Robin Cornelius: well as painlessly as my laptop allows
*[14:24] Merov Linden: ok, that's what I thought :)
*[14:24] Robin Cornelius: within the expected limitations of the current hardware and network
*[14:24] Merov Linden: ok, so Robin, can I count on you to do the 196 commit on 1.3 branch (and trunk while you're at it)
*[14:24] Robin Cornelius: yes
*[14:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: Boroondas, I haven't been getting any deadlocks on linux with single-core cpu, but do get them often on Windows with 3119
*[14:24] Merov Linden: merci beaucoup!
*[14:25] Merov Linden: I'll build the binaries as soon you're done
*[14:25] Robin Cornelius: i have pulled them off on my single code AMD64 a few times, but far more repeatable on my dual core windows
*[14:25] Boroondas Gupte: linux dual core, here
*[14:25] Boroondas Gupte: but I usually keep draw distance low (laptop)
*[14:25] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me on a amd64x2 laptop
*[14:25] Merov Linden: ok, it seems we have a good handle on the next step now for the next RC
*[14:26] Thickbrick Sleaford: the Bay City area seems good at deadlocking
*[14:26] Merov Linden: xstorm and ardy: dig into that texture loading bug and let's see if it's a show stopper
*[14:26] Ardy Lay: Okay
*[14:26] Merov Linden: great
*[14:26] Merov Linden: next on the agenda: 1.4
*[14:27] Ardy Lay: Sounds like he is running out of allocatable memory.
*[14:27] Merov Linden: ok: I *did not* assign any bug to 1.4 yet
*[14:27] Techwolf Lupindo: I've been out of the loop here for a while, if someone want to toss me a jira number or test for me to run later today, Please do.
*[14:27] Merov Linden: but, this morning, while doing patch triage, I was thinking that it would certainly be good to have some of those fresh patches committed there
*[14:28] Pixel Gausman: Merov: what's the planned finish date for 1.4?
*[14:28] Robin Cornelius: Meh only have svn trunk checked out, will be a few mins syncing up the rest of the tree
*[14:28] Merov Linden: instead of having everyone stall while I'm doing the grunt work in Sowglobe 2.0 rebasing
*[14:28] Pixel Gausman: Merov: freudian slip there.. Sowglobe?
*[14:29] Merov Linden: not sure: I'm Jungian :)
*[14:29] Techwolf Lupindo chuckles
*[14:29] Aimee Linden: the viewer in which pigs really can fly?
*[14:30] xstorm Radek: lol
*[14:30] Merov Linden: well, that means of course that you (and me) have to port patches again to Snowglobe 2.0
*[14:30] Merov Linden: but I think it's better than having this linger in JIRA
*[14:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: so 1.4 is basically a staging area?
*[14:30] Merov Linden: yes
*[14:31] Merov Linden: I don't think we'll create an "official" 1.4
*[14:31] Merov Linden: baring major train wreck on Snowglobe 2.0
*[14:31] Pixel Gausman: so after u finish your work with the sow, anything that went into 1.4 gets ported?
*[14:31] Merov Linden: yeap
*[14:32] Pixel Gausman: i like that. takes a little pressure off Merov
*[14:32] Merov Linden: I'm working up the Snowglobe trunk commit history
*[14:32] Robin Cornelius: if we hit some other crashers a 1.4 offical might be worth while down the road before 2.0
*[14:32] Robin Cornelius: burn that bridge when we come to it
*[14:32] Merov Linden: having it expand a little in 1.4 territory is not that bad
*[14:32] Ardy Lay: You getting any assistance from Bacon Linden on this Merov? :-)
*[14:32] Merov Linden: Robin: +1
*[14:32] Pixel Gausman: Ardy: +1
*[14:32] Merov Linden: that's the whole idea of 1.4L a contingency
*[14:33] Merov Linden: ooops, that "L" was supposed to be ":"
*[14:33] Merov Linden: Ardy: no bacon for me if I might say
*[14:33] Geneko Nemeth: 1.4L contingency... Must be Linden Soda for thirsty Lindens who had too much Bacon.
*[14:34] Merov Linden: ok, so, proposal: I'm going to assign "patch attached" bugs currently assigned to "future" to "1.4"
*[14:34] Merov Linden: how does that work for you?
*[14:35] Merov Linden listens to the synthetic wind...
*[14:36] Geneko Nemeth giggles
*[14:36] Tillie Ariantho: ok for me. :P
*[14:36] 
*[14:36] Merov Linden: ok, well, I'll do it then :)
*[14:36] Geneko Nemeth is going to rush some patches into Snowglobe! Tee hee hee!
*[14:36] Pixel Gausman: Merov: so builds from the 1.4 branch will be regular just like a real release?
*[14:36] Merov Linden: yes: weekly
*[14:36] Thickbrick Sleaford: it really depends on how deep the UI changes in 2.0 go. It sounds like a lot of the little UI bugs might be irrelevant or fixed after 2.0
*[14:36] Merov Linden: as before
*[14:36] Robin Cornelius: or reinvented
*[14:36] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
*[14:37] Pixel Gausman: Thick is right, the UI ones might not be good to include
*[14:37] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: yes, I'm not encouraging UI changes really
*[14:37] Boroondas Gupte: btw., is continuing a 1.x-based branch of snowlgobe an option? 2.0 seems to focus on new residents and it was recently stated Snowglobe will be developed towards "power users".
*[14:37] Merov Linden: but anything on perf, texture fetching, countless other bugs: fair game
*[14:37] Ardy Lay: I'll keep my other UI patches to myself after all the hubub over the one I shared.
*[14:38] Merov Linden: good question Boroondas
*[14:38] Merov Linden: the idea right now is as follow:
*[14:38] Pixel Gausman: Boroondas: i'd rather focus on 2.0, if we keep it 1.X based, Linden will lose interest because it will diverge from their other viewers
*[14:39] Merov Linden: - we keep the 1.x branch open for commits: some folks like you said may prefer that code base, at least while the 2.0 code base settles/matures
*[14:39] Boroondas Gupte: Pixel, I mean aditionally
*[14:39] Pixel Gausman: mkay
*[14:39] Boroondas Gupte: would mean more work, of course
*[14:40] Merov Linden: - I and all other Lindens though won't contribute to that one that much
*[14:40] Thickbrick Sleaford: Ardy, I think any UI vhange in a visible place will be controvesial and require some back and forth with the people who disagree with the way it's done. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
*[14:40] Merov Linden: - we work on making the 2.0 code base the true basis for all viewers
*[14:40] Robin Cornelius: ffs SVN issues here
*[14:40] Shorahmin Femto: remember Show look at
*[14:40] Ardy Lay: Merov, is the plan to keep making builds for people to fetch at regular intervals?
*[14:41] Boroondas Gupte: The other though behind that is that snowglobe could become the common base for third party viewers ... and I'd imagine a some of them would want to stay 1.x-based
*[14:41] Merov Linden: Ardy: yes,
*[14:41] Mm Alder: Does 2.0 use SVN or Mercurial?
*[14:41] Geneko Nemeth: hg
*[14:41] Techwolf Lupindo: I think there is one third party still doing a 1.19 based viewer due to preformence resons on lesser hardware.
*[14:42] Boroondas Gupte: yeah
*[14:42] Boroondas Gupte: Cool viewer legacy edition, IIRC
*[14:42] Geneko Nemeth: At least, internally... I had a JIRA issue that was marked solved in "hg.lindenlab.com"
*[14:42] Merov Linden: Snowglobe 2.0 should become the reference for other viewers to rebase from, with all the advances from Viewer 2.0
*[14:42] Pixel Gausman: the external 2.0 source base will be hg?
*[14:42] Pixel Gausman: or svn?
*[14:42] Mm Alder: If 2.0 uses hg, then a 2.0 branch in SVN seems like a waste
*[14:42] Pixel Gausman nods
*[14:43] Merov Linden: I think some (like Emerald) will push the "power users" enveloppe much farther than we will on Snowglobe 2.0
*[14:43] Merov Linden: and that's fine with us
*[14:43] Merov Linden: on hg vs svn: we're moving everything to hg as you know
*[14:43] Merov Linden: (see qtwebkit for instance)
*[14:44] Merov Linden: so I think moving to hg now makes sense
*[14:44] Mm Alder: Merov, are you merging Snowglobe into 2.0 or 2.0 into Snowglobe?
*[14:44] Merov Linden: how do you feel about that?
*[14:44] Techwolf Lupindo: yea....i've been playing with that hg webkit. I did managed to build snowglobe standalone using that.
*[14:45] Robin Cornelius: i've built a 1.23.5 viewer with hg webkit -plugins
*[14:45] Merov Linden: Mm Alder: Snowglobe into 2.0, a rebasing if you wish
*[14:45] Pixel Gausman: Merov: no religion on source code control from me.
*[14:45] Mm Alder: then hg makes sense
*[14:45] Merov Linden: the reason is that the commit history is much smaller for Snowglobe than for viewer 2.0
*[14:46] Robin Cornelius: a dVCS makes a huge amount of sense
*[14:46] Merov Linden: and also lots of Snowglobe stuff have been merged into Viewer 2.0 already (with UI changes and all)
*[14:46] Merov Linden: so it's not that big of a merge that way (still, work...)
*[14:47] Merov Linden: though small patches have big influences for folks around this table (e.g. SNOW-157 : ))
*[14:47] most textures don't load logged on an OpenSim
*[14:47] Pixel Gausman: :)
*[14:47] Mm Alder: So just open up your hg repository Merov and we'll start using it. :-)
*[14:48] Merov Linden: good try Mm Alder :)
*[14:48] Mm Alder: it's in my nature :-)
*[14:49] Merov Linden: frankly, I know you're all... eer... impatient of getting that code out and think that some "suits" are dragging this thing down
*[14:49] Merov Linden: but really, my fear now is finishing all the export script and build in time...
*[14:50] Geneko Nemeth: Heheheh....
*[14:50] Techwolf Lupindo: I just want access to the code so I can start doing standalone builds. I'me sure there is a few standalone build bugs in there.
*[14:51] Pixel Gausman: i just want source access because i am nosey.
*[14:51] Pixel Gausman: :)
*[14:51] Mm Alder: No, Merov, we know it's all your fault :-)
*[14:51] Merov Linden: yeah, it is...
*[14:51] Boroondas Gupte: not Aimee's?
*[14:51] Geneko Nemeth: I want to see Viewer 2.0 so I can know if there has been any improvement on the build tools, if not, I could base my course project on that.
*[14:52] Merov Linden: o also
*[14:52] Geneko Nemeth: No, I liek Aimee so it's Merov's fault. ^.^
*[14:52] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me courious if my build tool enament patch made it into 2.0
*[14:52] Merov Linden can't parse "enament"
*[14:52] Robin Cornelius: Merov there is a change i really need to make to my patch first
*[14:53] Techwolf Lupindo chuckles
*[14:53] Pixel Gausman: enablement
*[14:53] Merov Linden: o, I'll take those in Techwolf
*[14:53] Geneko Nemeth: Where is the patch? I wanna see wanna see wanna see!
*[14:53] Merov Linden: Robin: for 196 you mean?
*[14:53] Techwolf Lupindo: Sorry Merov. My animalistic nature sometimes takes over and my spelling takes a turn for the worse. ;-)
*[14:54] Robin Cornelius: yes, i forgot with my discussions with aleric, there is a tweak so that we don't hold a mQueueMutext when grabbing a mNetworkQueueMutex, *just in case*
*[14:54] Merov Linden: be wary of those "just in case" tweaks
*[14:55] Merov Linden: that's the one attitude that bit me with SNOW-435
*[14:55] mHeaderMutex is recursively locked sometimes + main loop time out paused when it shouldn't
*[14:55] Robin Cornelius: ok lets apply as is then, and tweak again if necessary
*[14:55] Thickbrick Sleaford: Robin, which method needed the tweak?
*[14:56] Merov Linden: ok :)
*[14:56] Merov Linden: so, last item of the agenda
*[14:56] Merov Linden: mailing list rename
*[14:56] Merov Linden ducks
*[14:56] Pixel Gausman: Merov: so back to 2.0. i'll need to set aside time to help with OGP-izing it, and i wanna have an idea of when that will be
*[14:56] Robin Cornelius: when calling addToNetworkQueue it would be better to change that toa bool function and fail if you can't grab the mutex, rather than holding the mutext right over the whole function
*[14:56] Aimee Linden puts on the crash helmet
*[14:57] Pixel Gausman: Merov: so how far away do you think?
*[14:57] Boroondas Gupte suggests "SL-src"
*[14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: no need to abreviate, if the abberviation is ambigous
*[14:58] Merov Linden: ok, we took "sl" out because it's on the secondlife.com domain name anyway
*[14:58] Mm Alder: SLource?
*[14:58] Aimee Linden: open-the-hot-sauce@lists.secondlife.com?
*[14:58] Pixel Gausman suggests we rename it "the-mailing-list-formerly-known-as-sldev"
*[14:58] Merov Linden: so there's no ambiguity really and it's redondant
*[14:59] Geneko Nemeth: sldev is fine, while it's mostly for Snowglobe it's also a forum for other viewer projects.
*[15:00] Thickbrick Sleaford: the problem is there is already an older sl-developers list
*[15:00] Merov Linden: seriously, we wanted to widen the scope to all Open Source projects at Linden Lab
*[15:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Why abberate? I think all mail clients can handle long names.
*[15:00] Merov Linden: and narrow it to "Development" discussion
*[15:00] Tillie Ariantho: open-dev@ :)
*[15:00] Pixel Gausman: off topic: i kind of wish there was a list that didn't have so many non developers on it. i get intimidated by the flamers on sldev that are not developers
*[15:01] xstorm Radek: can they put up road block on emrald ?
*[15:01] Techwolf Lupindo: I use copy/paste anyway or use a web page link to subscripbe, so I havn't type the name at all to subscribe.
*[15:01] Merov Linden: +1 Pixel, that's part of the motivation
*[15:01] Pixel Gausman: Merov: do the content creators have a mailing list?
*[15:01] Tillie Ariantho: non-coders-go-home-list@ ,)
*[15:01] Pixel Gausman: cause if they don't they need one
*[15:02] Merov Linden: lots of devs just don't want to participate to sldev as it's seens as a kitchen sink of discussions on policies, ux and what not
*[15:02] xstorm Radek: lol
*[15:02] Mm Alder: scripters do, but I don't think builders do
*[15:02] Pixel Gausman: Merov: i'm one of the ones that doesnt like to participate, that's why i tend to keep mostly to IRC
*[15:02] Pixel Gausman: and this meeting
*[15:02] Techwolf Lupindo: Mailing lists wouldn't be nessersity if there was a working forums to use.
*[15:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: the main disagreement with os-dev is that it might be confused with opensim. Since the -dev is traditional, why not opensource-dev?
*[15:02] Robin Cornelius: all the real work gets done on IRC ;-p
*[15:03] Merov Linden: its intent was "open source development", not policies (as we have often)
*[15:03] xstorm Radek: OMG!! im a builder of citys and junk :-S
*[15:03] Pixel Gausman: Thick: good point
*[15:03] Geneko Nemeth: UX goes to sl-ux. It's rather sad sl-ux is mostly UXIG meeting reminders.
*[15:03] Geneko Nemeth: As for policies, there isn't any places suitable for talk about that.
*[15:03] Merov Linden: there's nothing substantial we, devs, can offer on ownership policies, ToS and stuff like that
*[15:04] Boroondas Gupte: one of the reasons a lot of politics gets to SLDev, is that licensing@lindenlab.com doesn't answer publicly.
*[15:04] Robin Cornelius: snowcase search broke webkit ;-(
*[15:04] Pixel Gausman: i vote for opensource-dev
*[15:04] Mm Alder: or even privately, Boroondas :-)
*[15:04] Techwolf Lupindo whispers: After the rename, have the moderate start cracking down on off-topic discussion and make sure to point out the proper place to discuse it. Many time I am intrested in things other then dev
*[15:04] Techwolf Lupindo: After the rename, have the moderate start cracking down on off-topic discussion and make sure to point out the proper place to discuse it. Many time I am intrested in things other then dev
*[15:04] Merov Linden: that's what "os-dev" stands for Pixel... I see your point though
*[15:05] Mm Alder: When are we going to see Rob 2.0 ?
*[15:05] Pixel Gausman: my acronymn decoder ring has OS=OpenSim
*[15:05] Merov Linden: ok, I see a chat going on in Snowglobe
*[15:06] Merov Linden: BTW, I see lots of Snowglobe contributors are not in the Snowglobe group
*[15:06] Merov Linden: too bad
*[15:06] Merov Linden: I makes it harder to find each other
*[15:06] Robin Cornelius: maybe they don't know about it?
*[15:06] Boroondas Gupte: give us more group slots
*[15:06] Tillie Ariantho: there is a snowglobe group? ^^
*[15:06] Robin Cornelius sighs
*[15:06] Aimee Linden: we haven't managed to patch him into a new host yet Mm
*[15:07] Mm Alder: :-)
*[15:07] Pixel Gausman glances at her watch
*[15:07] Robin Cornelius: its an open group, but anyone else want a snowglobe grop invite?
*[15:07] Merov Linden: right
*[15:08] Tillie Ariantho: So I have this damn short list of 25 groups, how the heck shall I join half a dozen dev lists? ^^
*[15:08] Techwolf Lupindo overloads his laptop by firing up snowglobe to attend the beta grid meeting.
*[15:08] Merov Linden: it's 3pm and we exhausted the agenda
*[15:08] Aimee Linden: yes please Robin
*[15:08] Aimee Linden: just realised I haven't joined it lol
*[15:08] Merov Linden: group limit, darn!
*[15:09] Techwolf Lupindo: I think that why so many are not on there Merov
*[15:09] Mm Alder: I'm sure that will be fixed in 2.0. :-)
*[15:09] Merov Linden: you mean: you're beying #25th in their priority? :)
*[15:09] Tillie Ariantho: If all the land management stuff would not require groups, it would already be a big help.
*[15:10] Robin Cornelius: Merov, i'm about to commit 196
*[15:10] Merov Linden: I really don't know why we have that limit
*[15:10] Merov Linden: o/
*[15:10] Boroondas Gupte: What would help, too, is if groups could be merged. Often there's several groups for the same for historical reasons and not everyone is in both, so none can be abolished.
*[15:10] Tillie Ariantho: Yah.
*[15:10] Robin Cornelius: if it breaks its Aimees fault
*[15:10] Tillie Ariantho: and renamed.
*[15:10] Aimee Linden: it's true
*[15:11] Aimee Linden: when I arrived they'd fixed all the bugs in 2.0
*[15:11] xstorm Radek: ?
*[15:11] Aimee Linden: my job was to put them back in so people would still feel at home in the new viewer
*[15:11] Tillie Ariantho: :P
*[15:11] xstorm Radek: lol
*[15:11] Boroondas Gupte: :D
*[15:11] Pixel Gausman: Aimee: nice.
*[15:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm sure you did a great job!
*[15:11] Merov Linden: and go on their favorite soapbox
*[15:11] Tillie Ariantho: ^^
*[15:11] Merov Linden: it was harder than it looked
*[15:12] xstorm Radek: yes well the server has a good number of bugs too
*[15:12] Tillie Ariantho: You mean as long as people can rant they dont go for Merov's lunch box. :P
*[15:12] Merov Linden: ok, I see 1.3 branch coming alive with commits so, let's get that new RC cracking...
*[15:12] xstorm Radek: lol
*[15:13] Pixel Gausman watches Merov push the giant red "build me" button
*[15:13] Tillie Ariantho: Anything to test besides the hang bug on prim heavy sims?
*[15:13] Merov Linden: it's a bunch of buttons Pixel :)
*[15:13] Merov Linden: k, I'm terrible at multi tasking so I'm logging off
*[15:13] Merov Linden: cheers!
*[15:14] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you Merov
*[15:14] Robin Cornelius: committed
*[15:14] Techwolf Lupindo: arg...I think I just encounter that bug on the beta grid. My snowglobe-truck is hung now. :-(
*[15:14] Robin Cornelius: at revision 3123
*[15:15] Aimee Linden: it's actually two buttons on opposite sides of the office that have to be pressed at the same time
*[15:15] xstorm Radek: duck and cover
*[15:16] Tillie Ariantho: So you need Dupe Linden to do a build. :)
*[15:16] Tillie Ariantho: Going to bed. :)
*[15:18] Thickbrick Sleaford hopes Merov doesn't press the "nuke the grid" buttons by mistake
*[15:18] xstorm Radek: laterz every one
*[15:19] Aimee Linden: bye
*[15:20] xstorm Radek: laterz
*[15:20] Boroondas Gupte: I arrived late ... does someone have the full transcript for posting?
*[15:20] xstorm Radek: may i keep Merov ?
*[15:20] Robin Cornelius: sounds like a plane to me too, its alright for you Aimee, i see what time you login the morning ;-p
*[15:20] Robin Cornelius: s/plane/plan/
*[15:20] Aimee Linden: LOL
*[15:20] Aimee Linden: yeah, 10.30 till 6.30 officially
*[15:20] xstorm Radek: lol
*[15:20] xstorm Radek: he looks like a good kid
*[15:20] Aimee Linden: though it's been more like 10.30 to 03.30 the last couple of weeks lol
*[15:21] Ardy Lay: I can post transcript in a few minutes.
*[15:21] Boroondas Gupte: thx
 
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