Doc Team/2008-08-15

== Transcript ==
*[13:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hi LilTank. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours. We'll be stating in just a few minutes :-)
*[13:57 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: Hey Jeremy
*[13:57] WidgetHUD v1.1: LilTank Thibedeau has pinged you.
*[13:58 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: this is Ricken and my DJ Alt just finished a set
*[13:58 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ah, welcome back, then!
*[13:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: elloww =)
*[13:59 SLT] Kate Linden: Hello Zai
*[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hi Becky, hi Zai. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
*[13:59 SLT] Gally Young: hello )
*[13:59 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: Hello Everyone
*[13:59 SLT] Becky Pippen: Hi all.. .Happy Friday
*[13:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: ty =)
*[13:59 SLT] Kate Linden: Hello Gally
*[13:59 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: TGIF
*[13:59 SLT] Kate Linden: Becky : )
*[13:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hi Gally. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours. Take a seat anywhere... We'll be starting in a minute or two.
*[14:00 SLT] Gally Young: ok ^^
*[14:01 SLT] Kate Linden: Zai and Gally, I just read your Help Portal wiki this morning. Nicely done.
*[14:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh thank you very much =)
*[14:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: it's also the reason why we're here today (^_^)
*[14:01 SLT] Gally Young: thanks you very much ))
*[14:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: aaawwww pudding!
*[14:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I wonder if I still have that giant spoon.
*[14:02 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[14:02 SLT] Jon Linden: i see some new faces today!
*[14:02 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: you missed him last time
*[14:02 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Liltank
*[14:02 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: Hello Kate
*[14:02 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: I am just under my DJ AV Jon
*[14:03 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: Ricken here
*[14:03 SLT] Jon Linden: oh! heh
*[14:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh jon, may i ask if you got a linden bear? *blinks* *collects*
*[14:03 SLT] Jon Linden: i do, but it's the unexciting 1.0 version, although it does match my avatar
*[14:03 SLT] Jon Linden: stand by
*[14:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: woot! (^_^)
*[14:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: ty! =)
*[14:04 SLT] Jon Linden: you're most welcome
*[14:04 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: is their an initiative for lindens to make the new pet thing?
*[14:04 SLT] Jon Linden: what brings you folks to our office hour today?
*[14:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: we wanted to ask for some kinf of kooperation between the help portal and the knowledge base. so wanted to ask for permission to take parts of knowledgebase articles to improve help portal articles, in case we place an appropriate disclaimer on top, with a link to the KB
*[14:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: *kind
*[14:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: i think these two pages could really benefit from one another
*[14:06 SLT] Jon Linden: it's an excellent idea
*[14:06 SLT] Gally Young: and if you have any suggestions about the help portal too )
*[14:06 SLT] Jon Linden: i'm trying to think what the copyright on the KB is
*[14:06 SLT] Zai Lynch: ty (^_^)
*[14:06 SLT] Jon Linden: there might be some legal stickiness over which we have minimal control
*[14:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden isn't on the list of Lindens :-O
*[14:07 SLT] Jon Linden: i think that if you have a disclaimer, and include a link to the KB source, you might be in the clear
*[14:08 SLT] Jon Linden: this dovetails nicely with a project we've had in mind for a while, but haven't had the time or personpower to get off the ground
*[14:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: hm. could you look it up and post it at the help portal talk page when you know it for sure? i can link you to the disclaimer too
*[14:08 SLT] Jon Linden: actually, yeah -- could i see what the disclaimer looks like?
*[14:09 SLT] Zai Lynch: or we can alter it the way you like
*[14:10 SLT] Jon Linden: that seems pretty good as far as disclaimers for Resi-created content go
*[14:10 SLT] Jon Linden: you might want to have something similar for any content you take from the KB, like "we took this from the Second Life Knowledge Base on [date], but it might've been updated since..."
*[14:10 SLT] Jon Linden: sort of a thing
*[14:11 SLT] Jon Linden: i think?
*[14:11 SLT] Jon Linden scratches head a little
*[14:11 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah that we would be easy to set up *nods*
*[14:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: This sounds like something we should propose to our legal department, but I'd love to see it happen :-)
*[14:12 SLT] Jon Linden: this help portal is pretty impressive
*[14:12 SLT] Jon Linden: i'm making a note to email someone in legal about it now
*[14:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay (^_^) ty
*[14:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: great =)
*[14:13 SLT] Jon Linden: btw, Becky, one of our new hires was looking for a glossary about SL and i pointed her to the one you showed us a while ago
*[14:13 SLT] Becky Pippen: thanks :-)
*[14:14 SLT] Kate Linden: I'm working on the update to the glossary with residents from my office hour as well : )
*[14:15 SLT] Zai Lynch: what kind of glossary is it? gally spent much time to turn the wikis glossary into a category, which has a lot entries by now: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Glossary
*[14:15 SLT] Gally Young: not sure if it's the same subjet, but we have also worked on a wiki glossary for the help portal, maybe it could be usefull )
*[14:15 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: is there a wiki page or somewhere in the KB that goes through the tabs on the viewer and explains them?
*[14:15 SLT] Jon Linden: there are some scattershot articles that explain each tab in certain windows
*[14:16 SLT] Jon Linden: but not all of them
*[14:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: not in the wiki at least. except some article about the advanced and debug menu which is explaining some stuff
*[14:16 SLT] Jon Linden: there's a project (I'm not sure how far along it is) that proposes to restructure the menus radically
*[14:16 SLT] Jon Linden: in theory, the advanced menu might go away entirely (its more popular options redistributed to menus that make more sense)
*[14:16 SLT] Jon Linden: in theory
*[14:17 SLT] Jon Linden: this idea might just be a gleam in the eye of one of our Resident Experience designers
*[14:17 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: I am writing a document for school for my advanced technical writing class that goes through each menu and describes it
*[14:17 SLT] Jon Linden: a valiant effort to be sure!
*[14:18 SLT] Jon Linden: this wiki glossary's a good idea too
*[14:18 SLT] Becky Pippen: LilTank, you may also be interested in this view shortcut cheat sheet: http://www.kippiefriedkin.com/2008/07/25/second-life-viewer-cheatsheet/
*[14:18 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Oh, yeah. I've been wanting to do one of those for a long time, but it looks like someone beat me to it! :-)
*[14:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: it's indeed a neat one ^^
*[14:19 SLT] Jon Linden: what are everyone's thoughts on a wiki-based glossary as opposed to one that would live in the KB?
*[14:19 SLT] Becky Pippen: it's a little.... terse :-)
*[14:19 SLT] Becky Pippen: it can live anywhere as long as it's easily found and well-linked
*[14:20 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: thanks Becky
*[14:20 SLT] Jon Linden: jeremy's quickstart guide would be a little more in-depth, i think, but this cheatsheet is a good stab at a thorny problem
*[14:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'm not sure if it should be one way or the other. can be both ways... so the wiki is dynamical and residents can add. so lindens can review and take the parts they like to build up a glossary in the KB
*[14:20 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I like the idea of a wiki-based glossary, because Residents would be able to update it as new terms came into use. If it's in the KB, the three of us would be personally responsible for tracking current trends in terminology.
*[14:20 SLT] Zai Lynch: so the wiki one is already available
*[14:20 SLT] Jon Linden: zai, that was going to be my next thought, heh
*[14:21 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[14:21 SLT] Jon Linden: actually, we had an idea for a wiki portal that took this thought to heart
*[14:21 SLT] Jon Linden: we called it the "knowledge development portal"
*[14:21 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ah, yes.
*[14:21 SLT] Jon Linden: a place for Resis to link helpful content in the wiki to be spotlighted for inclusion in the KB
*[14:22 SLT] Jon Linden: to link, create, or request
*[14:22 SLT] Kate Linden: I like the idea of a KB article that points to the glossary on the wiki, or even to this Help Portal which has a glossary link built in.
*[14:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: i guess that is what can be done with the current help portal
*[14:22 SLT] Arawn Spitteler abbreviates: Katy Peep
*[14:22 SLT] Zai Lynch: yeah that would be kewlz =)
*[14:23 SLT] Jon Linden: i wouldn't want you to replace this help portal, it looks like a lot of thought went into it!
*[14:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: replace? *confused* o.O
*[14:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: oohh wouldn't
*[14:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: whewww...
*[14:23 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[14:24 SLT] Zai Lynch: i read "would" and was shocked ^^
*[14:24 SLT] Jon Linden: indeed!
*[14:24 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: We like to replace things, that lots of work went into.
*[14:24 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[14:24 SLT] Gally Young: ;)
*[14:25 SLT] Jon Linden: if i had to pick a glossary strategy, i would be inclined to go along with zai's idea of two glossaries that live side-by-side, one of which is more dynamically updated by Resis and which we can cherry-pick from
*[14:25 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Yeah... One of my chief concerns about using a wiki to store and organize this kind of information has always been in the presentation... but you guys have done a truly fantastic job, in that respect.
*[14:26 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh not just we two. a resident called "Kuraiko Yoshikawa" spent lots of time in designing... and hours to find CC3.0 icons which could be used ^^
*[14:26 SLT] Gally Young: Kuraiko has also created templates for video tutorials :)
*[14:26 SLT] Zai Lynch: oohh have you seen them?
*[14:27 SLT] Kate Linden: Do you have a link?
*[14:27 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Aren't Vidtuts a MonoTorleyOpoly?
*[14:27 SLT] Gally Young: all vidtut can be found here : https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Video_Tutorials
*[14:28 SLT] Zai Lynch: this would be an example of the template: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Video_Tutorial/Advanced_attachment_adjustment
*[14:28 SLT] Gally Young: and special pages are available for each vidtut : https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Video_Tutorial/3_ways_to_get_to_About_Land
*[14:28 SLT] Gally Young: ;)
*[14:28 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Torley's not the only person ever to make a vidtut, no... not even inside Linden Lab :-)
*[14:29 SLT] Zai Lynch: and yeah, monopol of torley, but he liked the idea of making them findable more easily. and also said they wouldn't be obtained in the wiki in the future but on the showcase page
*[14:29 SLT] Zai Lynch: so we will maintain them in the wiki while he looks over the showcase, once it's switched
*[14:30 SLT] Jon Linden: nice
*[14:30 SLT] Kate Linden: The template is very creative
*[14:30 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay ^^ glad you like it. torley-esque
*[14:32 SLT] Jon Linden: i admit to having fallen behind on including Torley's Tips of the Week in the KB
*[14:32 SLT] Jon Linden: we're trying to find mechanisms that will make video tutorials more findable, though, so it may be a moot point
*[14:33 SLT] Jon Linden: man, "advanced attachment adjustment" is 33 minutes long! that's a boatload of knowledge for sure
*[14:33 SLT] Zai Lynch: we are currently able to sort them in multiple categories.. so all vidTuts are in the vidtut category and a subcategory (basics, tip of the week, quicktip, classic). and can also be in the help categories... viewer, object, avatar, etc
*[14:34 SLT] Gally Young: and probably new categories will be added (some of them are all rady overcrowded
*[14:34 SLT] Gally Young: *ready
*[14:35 SLT] Kate Linden: Have you seen the Google Elections Video Search Gadget? It sounds like a useful text to speech recognition tool that sorts spoken words in video to jump to the relavent part being sought.
*[14:35 SLT] Jon Linden: wizardry
*[14:35 SLT] Zai Lynch: o.O neato
*[14:36 SLT] Gally Young: nice ^^
*[14:36 SLT] Zai Lynch: i will need to drop out for now. was granted to get half an hour inworld or i'll have a grumpy friend (^_^);
*[14:37 SLT] Trinity Coulter: bye Zai
*[14:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: oohhh heyas trini!
*[14:37 SLT] Jon Linden: thanks for stopping by!
*[14:37 SLT] Becky Pippen: Bye Zai
*[14:37 SLT] Kate Linden: Thanks for coming by Zai.
*[14:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: nice to meet you all (^_^)
*[14:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: have a great friday!
*[14:37 SLT] Jon Linden: we're here every week; feel free to drop in again
*[14:37 SLT] Trinity Coulter: :)
*[14:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: cyas
*[14:37 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Zai. Great work on the wiki!
*[14:37 SLT] LilTank Thibedeau: see you Zai
*[14:37 SLT] Gally Young: see you Zai )
*[14:38 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Trinity
*[14:38 SLT] Trinity Coulter: hi hi
*[14:39 SLT] Jon Linden: does anyone have pressing issues or doc-related anecdotes for the week?
*[14:39 SLT] Jon Linden: not that i demand anyone have any
*[14:40 SLT] Trinity Coulter: :)
*[14:40 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Nahhhh- Munch <Munch Munch - What's up, Doc?
*[14:40 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Well, Zai and Gally had some, but I think we've talked through those :-)
*[14:40 SLT] Jon Linden: heheh
*[14:40 SLT] Trinity Coulter: have you guys looked anymore at ways to use LSL to search the KB articles?
*[14:41 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Surelyl, you don't think I'm going to be caught by tht Chronicle-Error again?
*[14:41 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh...
*[14:41 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hm. Well, I've done some digging on how to use the Parature API.
*[14:41 SLT] Trinity Coulter: oh good :)
*[14:42 SLT] Jeremy Linden: On the positive side, it uses REST, you you could use HTTPRequest to access the KB... on the negative side, it requires an administrative "token", which is specific to each user of the administrative portal for Parature.
*[14:42 SLT] Jon Linden: oeuwh
*[14:42 SLT] Trinity Coulter: hmm
*[14:42 SLT] Jeremy Linden: So... it's doable, but I'm not giving you my token... can't have folks using it to edit and delete things :-P
*[14:43 SLT] Trinity Coulter: maybe you could make a little custom page on the secondlife.com domain and only allow certain functionality
*[14:43 SLT] Jon Linden: there's a team working diligently on improving inworld (and possibly outworld) search
*[14:43 SLT] Jon Linden: part of which will include making KB articles findable
*[14:43 SLT] Jon Linden: without having to use the Parature search
*[14:43 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Oh, true. I do believe we're working on indexing the KB for Google search.
*[14:44 SLT] Jon Linden: there are some technical hurdles
*[14:45 SLT] Trinity Coulter: funny how everything seems like it always has a catch
*[14:45 SLT] Jon Linden: truth
*[14:45 SLT] Jon Linden: almost nothing is ever as simple as we think it'll be!
*[14:46 SLT] Trinity Coulter: :)
*[14:46 SLT] Jon Linden: "it's a virtual world where people can talk to people and make things. how hard is that?"
*[14:46 SLT] Jon Linden: ^__^
*[14:46 SLT] Trinity Coulter: i made a meeting transcript maker and it took longer to research ways to save the information than to make the script
*[14:46 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: World Peace is coming soon, but has a small technical catch.
*[14:46 SLT] Jeremy Linden: If you take out the "make things", it gets a lot simpler :-P
*[14:46 SLT] Jon Linden: heh
*[14:46 SLT] Jeremy Linden: But then it's not Second life.
*[14:47 SLT] Jeremy Linden: er, Second Life
*[14:47 SLT] Jeremy Linden: both, in my personal case
*[14:47 SLT] Jeremy Linden: :-)
*[14:48 SLT] Trinity Coulter: so anything fun or new or exciting or just anything going on?
*[14:48 SLT] Jon Linden: we're finally getting back to working on new articles!
*[14:48 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I finished copy-editing the entire KB last week. WAHOO!
*[14:48 SLT] Trinity Coulter: yay both of you
*[14:48 SLT] Becky Pippen: wow, congrats, Jeremy!
*[14:48] WidgetHUD v1.1: Becky Pippen has pinged you.
*[14:49 SLT] Jon Linden: i just published a small one today about NVIDIA driver installs
*[14:49 SLT] Kate Linden: We also have almost all the new feature articles done for the latest viewer.
*[14:49 SLT] Becky Pippen: yay! you guys rock
*[14:49 SLT] Gally Young: congratulation ^^
*[14:50 SLT] Jon Linden: there will be more!
*[14:50 SLT] Jon Linden: oh, there will be more
*[14:50 SLT] Kate Linden: We've received some very helpful KB suggestions this past week as well. Keep them coming!
*[14:51 SLT] Trinity Coulter: i really do wish there was a way to search the KB from LSL
*[14:52 SLT] Trinity Coulter: i made a "Live Help" style system a while back, where you could call for on-call helpers, but i wanted to add a search into it
*[14:52 SLT] Trinity Coulter: that's how i first discovered how difficult it was
*[14:52 SLT] Jon Linden: hopefully, once we can index the KB from inworld search, it'll be easier
*[14:52 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Indeed.
*[14:52 SLT] Trinity Coulter: that will be nice
*[14:52 SLT] Jon Linden: i hear rumbles of other improvements being planned, but i don't know what they are or what they look like
*[14:53 SLT] Trinity Coulter: i wish i had a more fun question for you
*[14:53 SLT] Kate Linden: You can access it from the web tab of your profile.
*[14:54 SLT] Jon Linden: heheh, don't worry about whether your questions are exciting
*[14:54 SLT] Jon Linden: all questions are good questions!
*[14:54 SLT] Trinity Coulter: Jon, sugar or Splenda?
*[14:54 SLT] Jeremy Linden loves a good LSL question.
*[14:54 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ooh... I vote Splenda.
*[14:54 SLT] Jeremy Linden: It's sweeter.
*[14:54 SLT] Trinity Coulter: are you naturally or artifically sweetened
*[14:55 SLT] Becky Pippen: Jon is naturally sweet.
*[14:55 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wonders how to create a first billing event
*[14:55 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Oh, true. I didn't wait for the followup clarification.
*[14:55 SLT] Trinity Coulter: lol
*[14:55 SLT] Jon Linden: sugar!
*[14:55 SLT] Jon Linden: i prefer honey for my tea, actually
*[14:55 SLT] Jon Linden: whenever it is i drink tea
*[14:56 SLT] Trinity Coulter: oh yum
*[14:56 SLT] Jeremy Linden used to know a girl who put honey on ice cream.
*[14:56 SLT] Kate Linden: And he contains naturally sweet banana's, grapes...
*[14:56 SLT] Jon Linden: also true
*[14:56 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Jon's a healthy Jello.
*[14:56 SLT] Jon Linden: some of these green spheres are jawbreakers
*[14:56 SLT] Jon Linden: i've decided
*[14:56 SLT] Trinity Coulter: ouch
*[14:56 SLT] Trinity Coulter: crunchy jello
*[14:57 SLT] Trinity Coulter: they remind me of shampoo
*[14:57 SLT] Trinity Coulter: all the little things that you don't know what they are but they are suppposed to make your hair gorgeous
*[14:57 SLT] Jon Linden: favorite avatar ever
*[14:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Over time, I think Jon should incorporate small objects into his jello-ness, as though he's oozed over them and absorbed them.
*[14:57 SLT] Jon Linden: Jon Linden: now with exfoliating beads!
*[14:57 SLT] Kate Linden: lol
*[14:58 SLT] Trinity Coulter: ooh
*[14:58 SLT] Jon Linden: if you look really closely, the GL ring from my other avatar is embedded in this jello
*[14:58 SLT] Jeremy Linden: maybe a Linden bear, a piece of plywood, a samurai sword....
*[14:58 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Oh, awesome.
*[14:58 SLT] Kate Linden: yes Knowledge Bear should be in there
*[14:59 SLT] Jon Linden: hahahaha
*[14:59 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: The Bear of Knowledge?
*[14:59 SLT] Jon Linden: we should make that an item for our next meeting
*[14:59 SLT] Kate Linden: It's over beyond the couches. Feel free to take a copy.
*[14:59 SLT] Jeremy Linden: "Things Jon has absorbed"?
*[14:59 SLT] Kate Linden: It links to the KB, vidtuts and support
*[15:00 SLT] Trinity Coulter: "Things Jon has absorbed"? Topic #: 9051-5774
*[15:00 SLT] Kate Linden: KB Trivia!
*[15:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden: No results found :-(
*[15:00 SLT] Trinity Coulter: awww
*[15:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5774
*[15:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Wuh-oh.... scripting error.
*[15:00 SLT] Kate Linden: oops I fixed that
*[15:01 SLT] Kate Linden: let me switch out the bear
*[15:02 SLT] Kate Linden: try that one
*[15:02 SLT] Kate Linden: hmm
*[15:02 SLT] Jon Linden: this one on the rug here?
*[15:02 SLT] Kate Linden: yes
*[15:02 SLT] Jon Linden: whoops, i "took" it
*[15:02 SLT] Kate Linden: lol
*[15:02 SLT] Jon Linden: MINE!
*[15:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. It's M Linden!
*[15:02 SLT] Trinity Coulter: lol
*[15:03 SLT] Jeremy Linden: That's a great likeness.
*[15:03 SLT] Trinity Coulter: ty
*[15:03 SLT] Jon Linden: this seems like a good place to call it, folks
*[15:03 SLT] Trinity Coulter: ok
*[15:04 SLT] Jon Linden: everybody have an excellent weekend, and thanks for stopping by!
*[15:04 SLT] Trinity Coulter: well it was short but definitely naturally sweet :)
*[15:04 SLT] Jon Linden: feel free to stick around or come back next week, i just have some items to take care of before headin' out
*[15:04 SLT] Jon Linden: ^__^
*[15:04 SLT] Becky Pippen: Thanks guys!
*[15:05 SLT] Gally Young: have an excellent week end too )
*[15:05 SLT] Kate Linden: Nice to see you today : )
*[15:05 SLT] Jon Linden: be well
*[15:05 SLT] Becky Pippen: A *wonderful* weekend to all :-)
*[15:05 SLT] Trinity Coulter: bye all
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