Mesh/Archive/2011-05-23

Agenda:
# What are the status and plans for offet pivots? In particular (a) Was the AssetPivot mechanism removed because of physics shape not being offset? (b) Is it still likely/possible that some pivot offset mechanism will be implemented before release? [Drongle McMahon]
# Has the asset format change that will require re-uploading our models happened yet. If not, when is it expected?[DanielRavenNest Noe]
# Will mesh assets be harder to illegally copy than prims, sculpts and textures? [Ashasekayi Ra]
# Will instancing be supported in future mesh releases? [Ashasekayi Ra]
# Is there any documentation available on Mesh where we can find lay explanations of things like Convex Hulls and how to create proper LoD meshes so that we can 1) optimize our work, and 2) prepare educational materials to prepare SL citizens for mesh? [Eleanora Newell]
# Mesh was merged to snowstorm development. What is the difference between mesh development snapshot and snowstorm development snapshot? And which should we test? [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Can you give us an update on recent progress and what your current priorities are? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Is there anything in particular you need us to test? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Are we there yet? It seems we are getting closer. Can you give us a rough ETA yet? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Has the ability to set joint offsets been changed, or am I doing something wrong? [Ju Weissnicht]
# The current time is displayed on the Completed element of snapshot. [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Please update Mesh page with clear links about which viewer to use for current testing. Some people is confused about that [opensource obscure]
Transcript:
==Attendees List==
*Ashasekayi Ra (ashasekayi.ra)
*Cube Republic (cube.republic)
*Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
*Devildog36 Python (devildog36.python)
*Draconis Neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eddi Decosta (eddi.decosta)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Gianna Borgnine (gianna.borgnine)
*Hans Masukami (hans.masukami)
*Ju Weissnicht (ju.weissnicht)
*Latif Khalifa (latif.khalifa)
*Luc Starsider (luc.starsider)
*Mascha Boa (mascha.boa)
*NielArcher (nielarcher)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Opensource Obscure (opensource.obscure)
*Paul Bumi (paul.bumi)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Reed Steamroller (reed.steamroller)
*Rex Cronon (rex.cronon)
*Roxie Linden (roxie.linden)
*Runitai Linden (runitai.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*TankMaster Finesmith (tankmaster.finesmith)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
*Yuzuru Jewell (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday May 23, 2011==
[12:08]	Rex Cronon 	hi
[12:09]	Yuzuru Jewell 	hello Prep!
[12:09]	Prep Linden 	yo folks!
[12:09]	Rusalka Writer 	Prep, you've changed.
[12:09]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Hola
[12:09]	TankMaster Finesmith	prepy!
[12:09]	Opensource Obscure 	poor roxie!
[12:10]	Prep Linden 	I'm a mess today - testing, testing :-)
[12:10]	Runitai Linden 	from roxie: we'll probably push out to aditi for testing by the end of the week
[12:10]	Rusalka Writer 	Better tour the beta grid while it's all still there.
[12:10]	Opensource Obscure 	that' s = to the whole aditi
[12:11]	Latif Khalifa 	will you wipe the mesh sims while you're at it?
[12:11]	Runitai Linden 	no, to mesh-experimental
[12:11]	Devildog36 Python 	woooot wooot all fo aditi if I unerstand correctly
[12:11]	Latif Khalifa 	(not much sense in keeping old content around)
[12:11]	Opensource Obscure 	ok
[12:11]	Devildog36 Python 	sweet
[12:11]	Runitai Linden 	and if all goes well, to all of aditi rapidly
[12:11]	Runitai Linden 	er, all of the mesh sims, anyway
[12:11]	Devildog36 Python 	ah ok
[12:12]	Eddi Decosta 	hi Roxie ã‹¡
[12:12]	Roxie Linden 	Hi hi
[12:12]	Devildog36 Python 	hey roxie'
[12:13]	Dahlia Trimble 	is the new viewer available that uses the new format?
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	there will be by thursday :)
[12:13]	Runitai Linden 	Dahilia: not yet, we'll post to the blog when a sim is ready
[12:13]	Dahlia Trimble 	in the daily builds?
[12:13]	Devildog36 Python 	speaking about the new viewer I couldnt og into teh secondlife newviwer with ctrl shift g
[12:13]	Rusalka Writer 	Oboy, a big change just before Memorial Day! That went well last year.
[12:13]	Runitai Linden 	and the post will include links to a test viewer and a list of regions that use the new format
[12:13]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty
[12:14]	Runitai Linden 	(hopefully followed by a wiki page outlining the format)
[12:14]	Dahlia Trimble 	:D
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	and a followup post when we roll out to all the regions
[12:14]	Rusalka Writer 	So will anything we upload in the few new regions remain rezzable when it spreads to all regions?
[12:15]	Runitai Linden 	back to prep's question:
[12:15]	Runitai Linden 	What are the status and plans for offet pivots? In particular (a) Was the AssetPivot mechanism removed because of physics shape not being offset? (b) Is it still likely/possible that some pivot offset mechanism will be implemented before release? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:16]	Prep Linden 	Yeah, I removed the current asset pivot implementation - as we need to make some server side changes to fix the issue. I'm still hopeful that I can get to my part of the work.
[12:17]	Prep Linden 	*before release.
[12:17]	Cube Republic 	gosh i wish the browser was stable, crash if i swap monitors or minimise window
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer 	Mine's more stable than that.
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer 	I have to actually upload something a bit too big to crash mine.
[12:18]	Runitai Linden 	Will mesh assets be harder to illegally copy than prims, sculpts and textures? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:18]	Cube Republic 	i thought it might be a heat issue with my cards but i ran furmark to test them
[12:18]	Latif Khalifa 	Any client rendered content is inherently unprotectable by technical means. That includes meshes. DRM cannot solve this, other means (legal, social) have a better chance.
[12:18]	Rusalka Writer 	And what is being done on the issue of Intellectual Property Rights?
[12:18]	Drongle McMahon 	Thanks Prep. I hope you can do it.
[12:19]	Runitai Linden 	We're not the right team to talk about that --
[12:19]	Rusalka Writer 	And fifteen months ago we were promised an on-line DMCA filing system.
[12:19]	Nyx Linden 	we're looking at all the possible ways that we can protect content
[12:19]	Paul Bumi 	Hello
[12:19]	Runitai Linden 	but we'll forward the question to legal
[12:19]	Rex Cronon 	hello
[12:19]	Devildog36 Python 	does anyone know ho much a dmca file cost yes lindins supply the paper work but to get a copywrite it is har am i right nyx
[12:19]	Rusalka Writer 	Mahalo.
[12:20]	Prep Linden 	drongle: I'll do my best - I really want you guys to have that feature - it really helps with modular constructs.
[12:20]	Ashasekayi Ra 	I know it won't be impossible to rip. My question is will it be harder technically.
[12:20]	Latif Khalifa 	Nyx, I know you do. And cripple the features in the process.
[12:20]	Eddi Decosta 	hey Vir!!!! ã‹¡
[12:21]	Vir Linden 	Howdy!
[12:21]	Rex Cronon 	howdy
[12:21]	Runitai Linden 	next topic:
[12:21]	Runitai Linden 	Will instancing be supported in future mesh releases? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:21]	Hans Masukami 	oh lol
[12:21]	Runitai Linden 	er -- instancing works now
[12:22]	TankMaster Finesmith	so thats a "yes" :P
[12:22]	Rusalka Writer 	An easy one at last.
[12:22]	Reed Steamroller 	so we still can't get an answer about copyright protection stuff even after like 6 months of asking?
[12:22]	Latif Khalifa 	Reed, it's not tecknically possible to do.
[12:22]	Nyx Linden 	Reed: we're not the correct lindens to ask about copyright protection. I'm forwarding the request for a statement on to our legal team
[12:23]	Latif Khalifa 	you cannot get an answer
[12:23]	Reed Steamroller 	well they say they cant comment on it, sounds like they have some sort of idea or plan... but they can't say what it is?
[12:23]	Rex Cronon 	it seems that if u want copyright, u want to enforce it yourself. possibly with the help of a lawyer
[12:23]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Since when did instancing get put in?
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon 	Kidnap a lawyer for the next meeting.
[12:23]	Reed Steamroller 	if they aren't the right lindens to ask, which lindens are?
[12:24]	Latif Khalifa 	Reed, nah, they just don't want to be honest and tell you it cannot be done by technical means, It's something PR needs to fold into some releaseable statement
[12:24]	Opensource Obscure 	if there are no news about copyright issues, please lets' move on . please
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	I'll be following up on this request :)
[12:24]	Reed Steamroller 	thanks
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	I'll see what I can do, but we have a lot of other topics to get to in the meantime
[12:24]	Rusalka Writer 	I shall look forward to that with lively anticipation.
[12:25]	Ashasekayi Ra 	So, I can use instances in Blender and it works when I upload that whole mesh?
[12:25]	Rex Cronon 	i have a question, but i have problems with my browser and and can't post it. how come sculptie attachments r borked in the mesh sims?
[12:25]	Reed Steamroller 	instancing works? neat.
[12:25]	Runitai Linden 	it should work -- each instance should become a separate object
[12:25]	Runitai Linden 	and each of those objects should reference the same mesh asset
[12:25]	Drongle McMahon 	Davep... is that instancing of meshes or instancing of pieces within a model? ...or just expanding instancing from the collada file?
[12:25]	Nyx Linden 	Rex: IM me if you need a topic added to the agenda
[12:25]	Latif Khalifa 	(I do think mesh inventory item and setting mesh by script was removed in the vain attempt to address the copyright thing)
[12:25]	Runitai Linden 	expanding instancing from the collada file
[12:26]	Runitai Linden 	the collada file includes geometry nodes, and instance_geometry nodes
[12:26]	Paul Bumi 	Hey Rusalka
[12:26]	Runitai Linden 	we make a mesh asset for each geometry node
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	Ah yes.... not instances within an object then.
[12:26]	Runitai Linden 	and an object for each intance_geometry node
[12:26]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Oh wow... that's good to hear. I don't think most realize that works.
[12:26]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha.
[12:26]	Eleanora Newell 	here's the agenda page https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation,_Mesh_Import,_Scripting_User_Group
[12:26]	Devildog36 Python 	u do know that if you send the file to yur email account it automaticaly gets put on a copyrwrite file threw electronic means a lawer told me that for my photoshop pictures and also if you also do ti threw various websights it becomes a copywritewas also told by a lawer who is in secondlife to hel me file my dmca if I ever needed to
[12:26]	Devildog36 Python 	jsut a fyi
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	Davep .... does that save download data and/or prim cost?
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer 	The minute you create something it has a defacto copyright. The issue is protecting that copyright. You don't have to mail or email anything.
[12:27]	Runitai Linden 	instancing does not effect the current accounting system
[12:27]	Runitai Linden 	it might some day, but not today
[12:27]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Would you have to link the separate objects into one linkset to get cost benefits?
[12:27]	Vir Linden 	We are definitely not the group to give any legal advice on copyright.
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon 	So 12 instances = 12x cost of one instance?
[12:28]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Ah ok
[12:28]	Vir Linden 	It is a complex topic.
[12:28]	Runitai Linden 	Drongle: right
[12:28]	Devildog36 Python 	so in laymen terms what does tha tmean
[12:28]	Runitai Linden 	for all the equations currently in play, instancing only saves on streaming cost
[12:28]	Devildog36 Python 	on the instances
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon 	But is it 1`2 downloads?
[12:28]	Ashasekayi Ra 	But, it will have cost benefits in the future?
[12:28]	Runitai Linden 	but we don't account for it because it increases render cost and physics cost
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon 	*...12 downloads
[12:29]	Runitai Linden 	so to keep the system simple, accounting ignores discounts from instancing
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[12:29]	Devildog36 Python 	ok
[12:29]	Runitai Linden 	the only practical benefit for builders is your build will load more quickly
[12:29]	Runitai Linden 	and use a little less memory
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	Which is good for everyone.
[12:30]	Runitai Linden 	aye -- unfortunatley, that doesn't translate into a reduced "prim equivalence" cost
[12:30]	Hans Masukami 	newfags dont have kuro robots
[12:30]	Paul Bumi 	lulz
[12:31]	Runitai Linden 	Next topic:
[12:31]	Runitai Linden 	Is there any documentation available on Mesh where we can find lay explanations of things like Convex Hulls and how to create proper LoD meshes so that we can 1) optimize our work, and 2) prepare educational materials to prepare SL citizens for mesh? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:31]	Devildog36 Python 	speaking abou instances wil it be better to build a one prim build or building or multiple meshes
[12:31]	Devildog36 Python 	to complete the whoel build
[12:32]	Devildog36 Python 	verses prim cost and such
[12:32]	Reed Steamroller 	yeah the standards have changed so many times w/ mesh i'm sure what is what anymore lol
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	I never knew what SOP was. I've been working on the full flail method.
[12:32]	TankMaster Finesmith	nice thing about standards....
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	nothing formal yet I'm afraid, but we hope to loop in the doc team soon to help out with that :)
[12:33]	Runitai Linden 	in the mean time, there are some "best practices" threads on the wiki
[12:33]	Drongle McMahon 	Using component meshes can have a big effect on LOD switch distances, and consequently on cost.
[12:33]	Runitai Linden 	in general for LoD, focus more on removing triangles form the lower LoDs than the higher LoDs
[12:33]	Runitai Linden 	and don't worry about preserving anything but the silhouette for the low LoDs
[12:34]	Rex Cronon 	it look like we might need a dictionary of terms in order to understand eachother at these group meetings:)
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	yep, we are working on some standard terminology to settle on :)
[12:34]	Eleanora Newell 	is the informal stuff too techy? could we get in touch with the doc team? it's easier to point out things which may need better explanation if we can see anything at all? who would we contact on the doc team, nyx?
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	Elanora - we hope to rope in Jeremy, but he won't be available until next week
[12:35]	Eleanora Newell 	kk, thanks, nyx
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	I'll coordinate on what the requests are for him to work on in the meantime
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon 	Do we know what renderVolumeLODFactor people use on average?
[12:35]	Eleanora Newell 	great, thank you
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon 	Reading the forums can give a good idea of what needs explanation.
[12:36]	Devildog36 Python 	I personaly like 4.0 LOD and is the new standard on both phenix and secondlife viewer will tha tstay as the formal LOD
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	yes, i was wondering if there is some reason the rendervolume can't be set higher as a default....it feels like lod is so agressive these days
[12:36]	Latif Khalifa 	yeah seems 4 is the prefereble amongst those in the know
[12:36]	Runitai Linden 	well, most of the third party viewers crank that all the way up just for sculpties, which, frankly, is dumb
[12:36]	Ashasekayi Ra 	I think a lot of people use around 4.
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	cranking it up just gets you around the fact that sculpties don't have good LODs
[12:37]	TankMaster Finesmith	i made the LOD default to 4.0 in phoenix on ultra settings a while back
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	but cause an impact to performance, hopefully good LODs on meshes won't have that same issue
[12:37]	Latif Khalifa 	davep, i cannot measure FPS difference on my system when i crank it up from 1.2xx default to 4. and i get visually much better experience. not dumb at all
[12:37]	Eleanora Newell 	phoenix has it set to around 2 which i don't think is high
[12:37]	Drongle McMahon 	People need to choose depending on gpu and clutter.
[12:37]	Draconis Neurocam 	i agree davep, its better to have well made content then to adjust settings to make up for it
[12:38]	Runitai Linden 	Latif: smart for you, dumb for a viewer to default to it given most people's hardware
[12:38]	Devildog36 Python 	I think balance of the two is key
[12:38]	Runitai Linden 	Next topic:
[12:38]	Runitai Linden 	Mesh was merged to snowstorm development. What is the difference between mesh development snapshot and snowstorm development snapshot? And which should we test? [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:38]	Rex Cronon 	if is editable everybody can set it to the value they like
[12:39]	Reed Steamroller 	ohhh good question
[12:39]	Runitai Linden 	Short answer is test both -- snowstorm development for non-mesh use and mesh dev for mesh use
[12:39]	TankMaster Finesmith	mesh is disabled on viewer-dev
[12:39]	Dahlia Trimble 	will new mesh format work with snowstorm?
[12:39]	Draconis Neurocam 	im on viewer-dev right now, and i see mesh fine
[12:39]	Runitai Linden 	the difference is the mesh team is working in mesh development
[12:39]	Runitai Linden 	viewer-development is mesh enabled on mesh regions
[12:40]	Opensource Obscure 	"Snowstorm" doesn't mean much: need to consider the version. "Snowstorm" is the project
[12:40]	Vir Linden 	viewer-dev will get mesh updates less frequently
[12:40]	TankMaster Finesmith	and that mesh is enabled on the mesh viewer, and disabled on the v2 viewer :P
[12:40]	Latif Khalifa 	so you will be mergin into viewer-dev from time to time?
[12:40]	Runitai Linden 	so mesh development will get mesh specific fixes first
[12:40]	Vir Linden 	since we only merge down every so often./
[12:40]	Runitai Linden 	Latif: correct
[12:40]	NielArcher 	v-d doesn't build for OS devs since mesh got merged :-(
[12:40]	Nyx Linden 	doesn't build or doesn't run?
[12:40]	Runitai Linden 	well that's a problem
[12:40]	Latif Khalifa 	crash on start
[12:40]	NielArcher 	oops, does run, you are correct Nyx
[12:40]	Opensource Obscure 	doesn't build
[12:41]	NielArcher 	doesn't run
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	I suggested a fix for the crash on startup
[12:41]	Opensource Obscure 	sorry i meant "it's running here, idk about building"
[12:41]	Latif Khalifa 	derefences null pointer when convex decomp lib isn't compiled
[12:41]	Dahlia Trimble 	Ive seen posts on opensource-dev list where a few people have it working
[12:41]	NielArcher 	where's that suggestion Nyx?
[12:41]	Latif Khalifa 	Dahlia, there is patch out there, not in the repo yet
[12:41]	Runitai Linden 	Nyx is looking up the jira number
[12:41]	Latif Khalifa 	(at least not the last time i looked)
[12:42]	Nyx Linden 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1275
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	next topic:
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	Can you give us an update on recent progress and what your current priorities are? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:42]	Nyx Linden 	https://bitbucket.org/nyx/sh-1616-fix/
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation,_Mesh_Import,_Scripting_User_Group
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	(was getting pinged for that link again)
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	recent progress -- WE MERGED!
[12:42]	Runitai Linden 	yay!
[12:42]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Woo-hoo-hoo!!
[12:43]	NielArcher 	that's a different problem than what I get Nyx ;-(
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	Ima - please send me an email with the issue you're getting
[12:43]	Runitai Linden 	current priorities -- accounting, updating asset format, and fixing regressions we missed from the merge
[12:43]	NielArcher 	okay
[12:43]	Runitai Linden 	(most of the regressions we're focusing on involve rendering shadows on OSX)
[12:43]	Runitai Linden 	and anti-aliasing for deferred rendering
[12:44]	TankMaster Finesmith	thatll be nice ã‹¡
[12:44]	Runitai Linden 	Next topic:
[12:44]	Runitai Linden 	Is there anything in particular you need us to test? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:44]	Drongle McMahon 	You are fixing bugs faster than we find them. How can we keep up?
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	I'm crashing as fast as I can!
[12:44]	Runitai Linden 	crash harder!
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	Can do!
[12:44]	Ashasekayi Ra 	lol
[12:44]	Devildog36 Python 	hhahhahahha
[12:44]	Eleanora Newell 	lol
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	Crashed my whole Mac a time or two.
[12:45]	Runitai Linden 	just make sure you click the "send report" button
[12:45]	Runitai Linden 	and please do test shadows on OSX with the latest mesh build
[12:45]	Rusalka Writer 	Every time. There should be 57 of them from this weekend.
[12:45]	Luc Starsider 	I'll do my part and crash a mac or two
[12:45]	Runitai Linden 	Leslie is working hard on OSX compatibility issues there
[12:45]	Rusalka Writer 	And I leave shadows alone.
[12:45]	Rusalka Writer 	I have excellent crash research for OSX.
[12:45]	Runitai Linden 	Rusalka: good, the more the better
[12:46]	Runitai Linden 	we prioritize crashes based on the number of crash reports with a common stack trace
[12:46]	Rusalka Writer 	I'll keep crashing. I sent my observations.
[12:46]	Rusalka Writer 	I win.
[12:46]	Reed Steamroller 	woot
[12:46]	Runitai Linden 	(we rarely actually read the comments typed in with the crash reports)
[12:46]	Runitai Linden 	just leave that blank and click "submit report"
[12:46]	Rusalka Writer 	I know, but it amuses me.
[12:47]	Draconis Neurocam 	/me is going to start drawing ascii art in the crash reports
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	Next topic:
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	Are we there yet? It seems we are getting closer. Can you give us a rough ETA yet? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	(moving quickly since we're short on time)
[12:47]	Rex Cronon 	i think if we write the comments in hex u might look at them;)
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	not there yet
[12:47]	TankMaster Finesmith	ETA for the ETA is a few weeks, right?
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	next topic:
[12:47]	Runitai Linden 	Has the ability to set joint offsets been changed, or am I doing something wrong? [Ju Weissnicht]
[12:47]	Reed Steamroller 	is dof working on osx mesh viewer too?
[12:47]	Latif Khalifa 	I thought we were supposed to get the release timeline soon ;)
[12:48]	Devildog36 Python 	so u dont really know whne ETA is still
[12:48]	Ashasekayi Ra 	When did they say they would give an eta in a few weeks?
[12:48]	Prep Linden 	Uploading of rigs with joint offsets should be working (I just tested a number of rigs this morning and no problems).
[12:48]	Devildog36 Python 	but everyone was saying teh time lien shoudl be released shortly
[12:48]	Prep Linden 	If your upload did fail then I'd look in the secondlife log for any joint import failure notices.
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer 	Well, it's not today, and not next week, since that's a holiday in the US.
[12:49]	Prep Linden 	Ju, If nothing pops out I'd suggest opening a Jira, with your log file and your .dae file - and, I'll sanity check it.
[12:49]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Tateru Nino reported in her blog that someone said we would have ETA by the end of May, but she did not name her source and I have not seen that report anywhere else.
[12:49]	Ju Weissnicht 	no failure, just stopped working
[12:49]	Latif Khalifa 	Asha, it was on Tateru Nino's blog, and she asked for an official statement from LL and what she got back was "timeline for mesh release by the end of may"
[12:49]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Ahh ok
[12:49]	Prep Linden 	Ju, Open up a jira along with your asset.
[12:49]	Runitai Linden 	The current time is displayed on the Completed element of snapshot. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:49]	Runitai Linden 	que?
[12:50]	Ju Weissnicht 	ok i will!
[12:50]	Yuzuru Jewell 	It shoud be the time when it built
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	could you rephrase the question? :)
[12:50]	Prep Linden 	Ju: thanks!
[12:50]	Ju Weissnicht 	thank you :)
[12:51]	Eleanora Newell 	that was the blog post i have been asking about since it states that the CEO was the one saying the timeline would be out by end of may....from what you lindens are saying, something got maybe misquoted or wrong?
[12:51]	Reed Steamroller 	Nyx, did you ever get a chance to look at that palm tree asset i sent you?
[12:51]	Yuzuru Jewell 	Plese check http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/230627/index.html
[12:51]	Yuzuru Jewell 	Oh now it is building now..
[12:51]	Runitai Linden 	Yuzuru: click "previous build"
[12:51]	Ashasekayi Ra 	That's what I'm wondering El
[12:51]	Runitai Linden 	and you'll get a link with installers
[12:52]	Draconis Neurocam 	i think what yuzuru means is the build time on the html page is the time of access, not the time of completion of the compile
[12:52]	Devildog36 Python 	I think it was a hoax and the person was just stating tha tto start problems with us and the lindins on tha tblog
[12:52]	Yuzuru Jewell 	On the summeary,
[12:52]	Latif Khalifa 	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/230432/index.html
[12:52]	Latif Khalifa 	javascript seems to print now() instead of actual build date
[12:52]	Yuzuru Jewell 	I see the current time on Compled date-time.
[12:52]	Runitai Linden 	which is related to the last topic:
[12:53]	Runitai Linden 	Please update Mesh page with clear links about which viewer to use for current testing. Some people is confused about that [opensource obscure]
[12:53]	Yuzuru Jewell 	Completed:
[12:53]	Latif Khalifa 	ping cg linden on opensoure-dev
[12:53]	Runitai Linden 	yeah, we'll need to get in touch with cg to figure out how to make a link to the last good build that's easily uderstandable
[12:53]	Latif Khalifa 	and the time
[12:54]	Latif Khalifa 	build time just prints your current timezone time
[12:54]	Yuzuru Jewell 	I can't know when the snapshot was built.
[12:54]	Runitai Linden 	heh, you are correct
[12:54]	Runitai Linden 	will bug cg about that, too
[12:54]	Vir Linden 	Sounds like a bug...
[12:55]	Rusalka Writer 	Tomorrow is pretty current.
[12:55]	NielArcher 	gotta run, bye all
[12:55]	Latif Khalifa 	i think he was trying to convert time to your local timezone and forgot to facture in the actual build time :) (i managed to do the exact same thing once) :P
[12:55]	Rex Cronon 	tc
[12:55]	Yuzuru Jewell 	It is a current time on Japan.
[12:55]	Yuzuru Jewell 	May 24
[12:55]	Vir Linden 	giving you tomorrow's builds today!
[12:56]	Runitai Linden 	ok, and we're just about out of time
[12:56]	Yuzuru Jewell 	UTC+0900
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	A slogan at last!
[12:56]	Nyx Linden 	did our time machine get its wires crossed again
[12:56]	Runitai Linden 	any questions not answered satisfactorily?
[12:56]	Devildog36 Python 	I have a few questions thou about ht use of texturs implementations and phone and the like
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	Pony?
[12:56]	Reed Steamroller 	yeah
[12:56]	Devildog36 Python 	phong
[12:56]	Reed Steamroller 	you never tell us about the ponies
[12:57]	Nyx Linden 	the ponies are a sekrit
[12:57]	Rusalka Writer 	Pony-hoarders.
[12:57]	Runitai Linden 	we don't use phong, we use a custom lighting model
[12:57]	Yuzuru Jewell 	It shows not future time but local time (Japan).
[12:57]	Reed Steamroller 	wouldn't it be great if you did though?
[12:57]	Runitai Linden 	as for textures, there's only one texture per submesh for now (face in SL speak)
[12:57]	Devildog36 Python 	so I can use the lighting source in Maya an upload ti is what yoru saying
[12:57]	Runitai Linden 	no
[12:58]	Runitai Linden 	I'm saying the lighting model is specific to SL and uniform for all lights and surfaces
[12:58]	Reed Steamroller 	which is lame
[12:58]	Devildog36 Python 	and my other question was which is better on the serer making multile meshes to complete teh build or one complet mesh ah ok
[12:58]	Reed Steamroller 	:)
[12:58]	Reed Steamroller 	<3
[12:58]	Devildog36 Python 	server
[12:58]	Runitai Linden 	we make a (meager) attempt to translate materials from the collada file to an SL texture entry
[12:58]	Runitai Linden 	depends
[12:58]	Runitai Linden 	an entire mesh is visible or not visible
[12:59]	Runitai Linden 	so if you want frustum and occlusion culling to hide the innards of a building, it should be multiple meshes
[12:59]	Runitai Linden 	LoD is also a factor
[12:59]	Nyx Linden 	also better so that we can LOD each piece individually rather than as one giant blob
[13:00]	Runitai Linden 	right, a 64m building will effectively always be displayed at the highest LoD
[13:00]	Devildog36 Python 	alrigth so on building builds we shoudl still use multipe meshes on simple singular builds its oen mesh cool
[13:00]	Runitai Linden 	yup
[13:00]	Rusalka Writer 	And with the OSX viewer if the piece is too big it loses all the normal orientations. And then bigger and it crashes the viewer.
[13:00]	Runitai Linden 	but even then it depends
[13:00]	Nyx Linden 	its fine to have a simple mesh for the building as a whole, just make the details sub-meshes :)
[13:00]	Runitai Linden 	for a car, for example, it makes sense to use separate meshes for the interior
[13:00]	Reed Steamroller 	BUT, while it may be rendering that building at its highest lod, that same area will be occluded by said building, therefore there will be less items to render in that space.
[13:00]	Runitai Linden 	so you're not rendering a high detail steering wheel and seats when outside the car
[13:01]	Devildog36 Python 	ah ok
[13:01]	Devildog36 Python 	thansk for the answer
[13:01]	Runitai Linden 	thanks for asking!
[13:01]	Devildog36 Python 	will maek it easire fo my builds to knwo what is best when making a full sim
[13:01]	Nyx Linden 	Reed: if you want a lot of detail in the building when viewed up close, you don't want all those triangles drawn from half a sim away :)
[13:01]	Runitai Linden 	and we're out of time!
[13:01]	Runitai Linden 	thanks folks
[13:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Good meeting.
[13:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Mahalo!
[13:01]	Gianna Borgnine 	thank you
[13:01]	Vir Linden 	bye all!
[13:01]	Gianna Borgnine 	bye
[13:01]	Nyx Linden 	thanks for coming everyone!
[13:01]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Thanks Lindens
[13:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha.
[13:02]	Rex Cronon 	tc everybody
[13:02]	Latif Khalifa 	thanks for your time mesh team
[13:02]	Yuzuru Jewell 	Thank you.
[13:02]	TankMaster Finesmith	thx for your time ã‹¡
[13:02]	Mascha Boa 	thx, and have a nice time :))
[13:02]	Ju Weissnicht 	thank you :)
[13:02]	Prep Linden 	later folks!
[13:02]	Eleanora Newell 	bye, all
[13:03]	Drongle McMahon 	Bye all.
[13:03]	Ashasekayi Ra 	Later Drongle
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