Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.02.18

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.02.11	Next 2014.02.25
== List of Speakers ==
ac14 Hutson 	Adamburp Adamczyk
Baker Linden 	Hexapoda
Jenna Felton 	Lucia Nightfire
Melvin Starbrook	Mona Eberhardt
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Skills Hak 	Stickman Ingmann
Whirly Fizzle 	
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone, let's get rolling ...
[12:01] Simon Linden: for news this week, there was no main channel update this morning
[12:01] Simon Linden: Tomorrow the RC channels will all get the same maintenance update
[12:02] Simon Linden: The usual forum post is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-02-17/td-p/2498275
[12:02] Simon Linden: This is fairly lightweight this week with a few crash fixes
[12:03] Simon Linden: I don't have any other news so let's open up the table for questions or topics
[12:04] Adamburp Adamczyk: tumbleweeds
[12:04] Simon Linden: and crickets
[12:04] Hexapoda: Hello all
[12:04] Adamburp Adamczyk: can we have an impromptu cogna line while we all think?
[12:05] Adamburp Adamczyk: conga*
[12:05] Doorbell: Ding Dong
[12:05] Simon Linden: sure, maybe I should buy some dance balls and liven up the meetings
[12:05] Seewo (seewo): since I once again had to encounter ppl rezzing megaprims in front of vendors, I would like get antetion to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-422
[12:05] ac14 Hutson: I asked about imrpoved sound functiosn a while back. any news on taht?
[12:05] Whirly Fizzle: I have a conga line :D
[12:06] Simon Linden: There was some chat about the sound functions but there's nothing in the works now
[12:07] Stickman Ingmann: I did have a question about LSL and materials. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MATBUG-359 Basically, will we ever be getting functions to control specular and normal? And when?
[12:08] Simon Linden: I've been looking into that, Stickman and hope to get to it soon, but it keeps getting pushed back with other more immediate issues cropping up
[12:08] Seewo (seewo): like seriously... that jira was created almost six years ago, it is very good suggestion for function. Why we do not have it yet?
[12:09] Simon Linden: but along those lines, does anyone have some good materials textures without any licensing issues? It would be nice to have a good demo of that feature
[12:09] Stickman Ingmann: As long as it's on the table. I get worried when things don't show up that there may be political reasons features are left out.
[12:09] Simon Linden: Seewo ... I can't give you a history of the decisions made over what work was done in the last 6 years
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: Maybe I could try making some normal maps from a few textures I have.
[12:10] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:10] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[12:11] Simon Linden: Hello Rex
[12:11] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[12:11] Seewo (seewo): ...and is it possible to poke someone to at least have a look at it? It would effectively stop pretty much all scams
[12:11] Hexapoda: We need a layer for glow so we can have transparent and glow/bright at same time.
[12:11] Whirly Fizzle: If you make changes to materials textures too fast in the build floater, th changes often revert. Im wondering how it would wotk well with fast changes made by scripts.
[12:11] Simon Linden: We have a regular anti-griefing discussion and I'll bring it up at the next one
[12:11] Rex Cronon: i don't what happened, but i was shutting down firefox and i started sl viewer and suddenly my computer decided to restart
[12:12] Stickman Ingmann: That's a powerful statement, Seewo. If you can prove it would take load off their support staff, I suspect you'd get more attention.
[12:12] Seewo (seewo): okay, thanks
[12:12] Whirly Fizzle: Seems the server is not very happy when you make edits to mat textures too quickly
[12:12] ac14 Hutson: yeah somewhat in the vein. you can't offset a normal or specular map negitive and it makes lining up textures for non mesh builds pretty much impossible https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MATBUG-268 it says that this is fixed and it is NOT fixed
[12:12] Stickman Ingmann: The client also doesn't handle object inventory changing quickly. Yet scripts handle it just fine.
[12:13] Simon Linden: Yes Whirly, that's an interesting point and something we'll have to look at after doing the basic scripting change. If it's somehow worse than the current scripted texture changes, we'll have to have some sort of throttle to slow it down
[12:13] ac14 Hutson: swtting negitive values to 0 instead of them reverting is not a fix
[12:13] Whirly Fizzle: The "fix" for that was clamping to positive offsets in the UI
[12:13] ac14 Hutson: when I treid to bring it up my jira got closed as duplicate :v
[12:14] Whirly Fizzle: Why do materials textyure work differently to diffuse textures? Why can the server cope with fast changes made to diffuse rextures but not material textures?
[12:14] Hexapoda: Servers can not return all objects from sim just now, if some has filled a main land sim with bad objects and you return them many will stay.
[12:14] Whirly Fizzle: *cant
[12:14] Simon Linden: fwiw if your report gets resolved as a duplicate jira, it really doesn't mean anything about how important the issue is ... it just means there was an earlier report of the same thing
[12:15] Whirly Fizzle: * err can >.<
[12:16] ac14 Hutson: well if the jira wasn't hidden people could see if they are posting a duplicate or not. :p
[12:16] Simon Linden: The materials textures are handled a bit differently on the server to try and minimize the effects of multiple usage
[12:17] ac14 Hutson: since I posted mine and it got closed as duplicate and the issue its linked to is "resolved" I can only assume that its know but not going to be fixed. and it makes using materials on anything that dosnt have custom uvs pretty difficult
[12:18] Whirly Fizzle: Well, the fix said it was a stop gap https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-release/commits/9b58e1c26d811d47a9f15d6cdffd1e063c968af6
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: You can fix it in the UI. We have it in FS. If the diffuse texture has neg offsets, the viewer calculates the matching pos offset
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: & the pos offset is applied to the mat textures
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Same for negative rotations, which are also clamped for mats textures
[12:19] Stickman Ingmann: So how are things inside Linden Lab, Simon? I know you guys got a bunch of new properties -- Desura, Patterns, etc. Is that causing any problems with the further development of Second Life?
[12:20] Simon Linden: Things are great, Stickman ... I haven't run out of bugs to work on yet :P
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: lol youll never tun out of bugs here :D
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: *run
[12:21] Stickman Ingmann: Oh hey Kelly, Baker! I didn't even see you two come in.
[12:21] Stickman Ingmann: What do you do, Baker? I haven't been to a user group in a long time.
[12:22] Whirly Fizzle: He twerks ^^
[12:22] Stickman Ingmann: When I was younger, Simon, I thought software was made and that was it. The fact that you can always add to it and fix more bugs (because there are always more) blew my mind. There is no stopping point on active software.
[12:22] Simon Linden: I was just looking at the materials code, and the complication this has compared to regular textures is how materials have their own layer of special data packaging instead of a just a uuid on a face. I'm not sure yet how script access is going to thrash that data
[12:22] Simon Linden: or not
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: Well, its bad enough if you make fast changes to mats textures with the spinners :(
[12:23] Simon Linden: right
[12:25] Simon Linden: So if a manager asked me, what's a good usage case for script material support that would justify spending time on it?
[12:25] Baker Linden: Hey Stickman, I'm working on being able to ban people from groups. I was going to say that I'm in the last stages of code cleanup and ensuring there aren't any major bugs (which QA will surely find) and I'm wrapping everything up for deployment to aditi this week (server-side stuff only right now)
[12:25] ac14 Hutson: honestly I wouldnt care if setting materials ahd a delay. its better than not having it.
[12:25] Stickman Ingmann: My use would be for avatar customization support. I've got a wyvern in the works, and I can't change the scale pattern without also being able to change specular and normals. Means I'm limited to one texture design with different colors for customization.
[12:26] Stickman Ingmann: Besides end-user customization, internal tools are useful. Sell-by-color products and avatars may end up using different patterns and need new normals and speculars. Having a script automate all of the variants instead of manually applying each one works great. Especially if you have dozens or hundreds of variants (for whatever reason).
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: And, as Loki Eliot had said, the ability to use LSL to control normal maps would give the opportunity to change from a wet look to a dry look etc.
[12:27] Simon Linden: ok, thanks ... those are good to know
[12:27] Hexapoda: Hello Baker, did not see you, the dark glasses gave you ninje bower to hide in corners. .
[12:27] Hexapoda: *ninja
[12:28] Rex Cronon: people like to change the color and patternes on their shoes. and that is usually done with scripts. so, if u can't do that with scripts people don't buy shoes anymore:)
[12:28] Baker Linden: The ninja powers comes from my ring :)
[12:29] Stickman Ingmann: Reminds me of the 20MBs of textures on a shoe used in one of Q's demos.
[12:29] Hexapoda: :)
[12:29] ac14 Hutson: for my vehicles the best I can do is make generic maps that attempt to look decent no matter what color texture the user applies. but dark textures end up looking too shiny and light colors not enough. being able to change it would be helpful
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: While we're at it, maybe llSetPrimitiveParams/llSetLinkPrimitiveParams/llSetlinkPrimitiveParamsFast could be improved a bit in order to make a certain change to a number of prims with a *single* call rather than one call per prim?
[12:30] Skills Hak: sup
[12:30] ac14 Hutson: PRIM_LINK_TARGET?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: PRIM_LINK_TARGET
[12:30] Simon Linden: hmmm ... by giving it a list of target prims?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: although PRIM_LINK_TARGET has a nasty quantifier or multiplier hit to script memory if compounded
[12:31] Stickman Ingmann: Speaking of llSetPrimitiveParamsFast. I've been noticing that objects made of numerous prims haven't been changing all of the prims lately. Even when done in a single call. How is such a change sent to the client? Is there a message size cap? Is it sent as a bunch of individual packets, one per prim, and some are getting lost? It's random for everyone looking at the object how many and which prims don't change.
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: Let's say we want to affect prims 2, 5, 6, 7, 10 and 12. It would be good to be able to tell it to make that change to these prims - 2 and 5 and 6 et.
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: *repeated stack
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: etc*
[12:31] Simon Linden: yeah, those functions already pile so many changes together .. I'm not sure I like making them more complex
[12:32] Stickman Ingmann: llSetLinkListPrimitiveParams([1, 2, 6, 7], [PRIM_TEXTURE...])
[12:32] Stickman Ingmann: Yeah, I've seen a jira for that.
[12:32] Rex Cronon: its better to make them coplex rather than have scripts do that. as everybody knows script can be quite slow
[12:32] Skills Hak: JIRA™ there's a reason for it, it's a system and it does work.
[12:33] Jenna Felton: what would be also nice is to be able to rotate a selection of prims around a point and not around the root prim
[12:33] Simon Linden: There's advantage to making a bunch of changes and sending one update, definitely
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: And, for those cases where llSetLinkColor or llSetLinkAlpha alone need to be used, it'd be good to have the ability to make the same change to multiple prims with one call rather than have one call for each prim.
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: Indeed, Simon. In laggy sims, I've noticed that some updates simply don't get through.
[12:33] Jenna Felton: for esample a car door rotated around the handle and the door is a few prims and you stil use a single call
[12:34] Simon Linden: oh definitely, Jenna ... one of the first things I tried to do in SL was make a door open with a click and I ran into that immediately
[12:34] ac14 Hutson: oh. yeah it would be really useful to be able to set the alpha of a prim but retain its color.
[12:34] Stickman Ingmann: Yes, absolutely. The linking of color and alpha in llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() is frustrating, as there is no way to change them in a single call without getting data first.
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: llSetLinkAlpha()
[12:34] Mona Eberhardt: What Stickman said. I ended up having to use llSetLinkAlpha instead of llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast because of that.
[12:34] Stickman Ingmann: Choosing the rotation point, yes. You can do that in 3D editors. In fact, 3D editors may be a nice thing to pull some features from. Isometic views, multiple views. I had a Jira about that ages ago. Nyx was like, "neat!" and then it slowly starved to death like all of the others.
[12:35] Skills Hak: yeah make it a little faster, then you can even ddos people with update packets
[12:35] Stickman Ingmann: llSetLinkAlpha() suffered the same problems as llSetLinkprimitiveParams() on an object with many prims where some prims dodn't change. No rhyme or reason I can find. Random every time for every client.
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: lolcubes do that enough as it is, heh
[12:36] Simon Linden: Those problems sound like update packets getting lost ... if you move away and back, is it shown correctly?
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: naw, this is interest list problems iirc, heh
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: inherited
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: And llSetLinkColor gets affected.
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: No Simon, it's not. I'm often forced to relog.
[12:37] Stickman Ingmann: I didn't try moving away and coming back. But I suspect it would fix the issue.
[12:38] Mona Eberhardt: Sometimes, I just have to wait, often for a frustratingly long time.
[12:38] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Similar to moving away and coming back, I use a set of scripts that makes parts go alpha and other parts go invisible for transforming armor. Used to, it would work perfectly, but now a few pieces get left behind when trying to go alpha and instead they remain visible. It fixes itself when I cross a sim though.
[12:38] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Though I'm not sure what that is :/
[12:39] Simon Linden: You have to move or cam far enough away so the next time you see the object you get a "full update" and not a partial one. The server and viewer can definitely get confused if it thinks the viewer has the most recent data but it actually doesn't
[12:39] Simon Linden: Right, that sounds like update problems, Tsukasa
[12:39] Stickman Ingmann: This is a new bug, yes. It didn't used to do it.
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: some people use a timed settext cheater along with multi-prim updating apps, heh
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: The llSetLinkAlpha problem is filed at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1786
[12:40] Simon Linden: How new do you mean? There were interest list changes done in the fall of 2013, up until near the end of the year
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: It def started with a server update too. All of a sudden in all viewers.
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: I have an app where I use ti, but not correctly, which I'll have to fix.
[12:40] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Lagadelia, was that link for my issue?
[12:41] Mona Eberhardt: llSetLinkColor, though, isn't fixed yet.
[12:42] Simon Linden: Roughly how many prims get problems in that bug ... is it one out of two? a few out of hundreds?
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: Theres an easy repro in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4380
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: sometimes its 1 out of 10 or 12, heh
[12:43] Stickman Ingmann: In my experience you need a couple dozen for the bug to show up. But I am not a proper sample. Most of my reports come from people with low framerates and less powerful computers.
[12:43] Simon Linden: If it's really large numbers, perhaps the server is sending too many updates at once, and causing a packet loss
[12:43] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): It's usually a small number. I even tried it with mesh and I'd say it's the same amount of objects regardless if it's mesh, prims or sculpties
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: It can be one or two in a linkset of six, or it can be ten in a fifty-prim linkset. It seems the number of links in the linkset doesn't play much of a role.
[12:44] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): I get permission violations when trying to click those links
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: you're not a special enough snowflake
[12:45] Simon Linden: and it happens regularly, but is it the exact same behavior each time, or random?
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: sorry, heh
[12:45] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): That's okay Lucy, I'd rather be average.
[12:45] Whirly Fizzle: t that fail
[12:45] Stickman Ingmann: Speaking of which. Are there any plans to open up Jira again? Has whatever you tried to do by closing it been successful or has it not achieved the desired results?
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: lol, j/k of course
[12:45] Mona Eberhardt: I've encountered this issue mostly in sims that have a fair number of scripts running.
[12:45] Whirly Fizzle: oops... its random prims in the linkset that fail each time
[12:45] Simon Linden: yes, a lot of the bug reports have limited access.
[12:46] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): I know Lucy :)
[12:46] rcdsQueChatLog: Nalates Urriah, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:46] Stickman Ingmann: Definitely random prims, yes. You get a group of people around an object, and everyone sees something different.
[12:46] Mona Eberhardt: Either scripts on avatars or scripts on objects that are rezzed on the sim.
[12:46] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): It is random prims, and it's usually only one or two per linkset. At least my armor anyway.
[12:47] Stickman Ingmann: I do believe framerate plays into it. Which makes me think it's less likely to be a packet loss issue, unless the client itself is dropping the packets and not the network.
[12:47] Stickman Ingmann: Those with less powerful computers saw more problems.
[12:47] Simon Linden: That really sounds like packet loss ... not that it's any less annoying, but that's definitely harder to detect and fix
[12:47] Crusader jeff (jeffrey1): can we talk later
[12:47] Simon Linden: They can get dropped all over, Stickman
[12:47] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): I'd agree with you Stick, except that I have a pretty high end desktop.
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: It sounds like it, but at that time I didn't see any packet loss going on. And this is what made it puzzling. :/
[12:48] Stickman Ingmann: Get the subroutines carrying the packets to use stronger buckets. Or maybe buckets with lids.
[12:48] Simon Linden: hmmm
[12:48] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): i7 4700k, 12 Gigs of RAM and a 780Ti
[12:48] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): And it varies between computers too, other low end ones I use has it doing the same thing.
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: That's a seriously good machine, Tsukasa.
[12:48] Skills Hak: i want an euro colo for xmas
[12:48] Simon Linden takes notes
[12:49] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Thanks
[12:49] Whirly Fizzle: related: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4427
[12:49] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): I think the packet loss issue makes sense though, since going to a different sim "reboots" the armor and makes it all appear correctly
[12:49] Stickman Ingmann: So going away and coming back does fix the problem, yes.
[12:50] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Yes, though I haven't tried the camera thing
[12:50] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Just sim crosses
[12:50] Rex Cronon: what if armor pieces were able to atttach/detach themselves? would that fix it?
[12:50] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Not if I remain in the same sim, no
[12:50] Simon Linden: yeah ... packet loss or not, the viewer and simulator are getting out of sync on the updates
[12:50] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): I've detached and reattached with the same result
[12:50] Mona Eberhardt: However, Tsukasa, there's a caveat with that. What happens when you're in a private sim that's not mainland or contiguous with another sim? Do you tp out and back in?
[12:51] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Truth be told Mona, I don't spend a lot of time in private sims, so I've never tried
[12:51] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): But I could try teleporting elsewhere
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: this app used to exhibit the problem until I added the settext change to update any straggler/failed updates
[12:51] Hexapoda: omg, 170 LI tor that image!?
[12:51] Stickman Ingmann: Workarounds are fun.
[12:52] Seewo (siwo): wth :|
[12:52] Skills Hak: :3
[12:52] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): And, I sell the armor too, but yet, no one has ever complained about it to me
[12:52] Skills Hak: i could upload it with 1LI
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: ya, its expensive for LI to get this effect, esp with large sizes
[12:53] Seewo (siwo): I don't get it... such insane LI for plane :o
[12:53] Melvin Starbrook: materials costs many prims...
[12:53] Stickman Ingmann: It's full of stars. I mean faces. You guys see the pixelation effect?
[12:53] Mona Eberhardt: yes
[12:53] Simon Linden: yes
[12:53] Melvin Starbrook: yes
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: notice the occasional blank face for a spkti second, thats the bug failing to update a face
[12:53] Stickman Ingmann: Yeah, there's no way you're doing 1LI for that thing.
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: *split
[12:54] Skills Hak: oh speaking of materials.. when will we get some lsl for that?
[12:54] Skills Hak: wanna bet i can make it 1LI?
[12:54] Stickman Ingmann: Soon(tm). Simon took the blame for not getting it done, but says it's on the table.
[12:54] Stickman Ingmann: I will take that bet, Skills. Because I want to see it.
[12:54] Skills Hak: 100k L
[12:54] Stickman Ingmann: I refuse. :( I am poor.
[12:54] Skills Hak: lol
[12:55] Rex Cronon: what hack r u going to use skills:)
[12:55] Skills Hak: ok a dinner
[12:55] Skills Hak: it's an upload trick
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: you can mod the export values for teh mesh import
[12:55] Stickman Ingmann: That sounds like an exploit.
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: I've heard peopel import ANYTHING for 1LI
[12:55] Skills Hak: yeh let's forget abou tit
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: I've seen it too
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: I haven't been told what to change though
[12:56] Skills Hak: nah that's a LOD thing lucia
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: I know about the LDO thing
[12:56] Skills Hak: oh well i better shut up
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: I'm using it with this
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: *LOD
[12:56] Skills Hak: love the effect
[12:57] Stickman Ingmann: So Simon. Is there anything I could bribe you with to get you to work on LSL for materials sooner?
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: I actually had to use lower vertice counts and use multiples of those versus the hit you take to LI on quadruplign the vertices ona single mesh
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: if that makes sense
[12:57] Skills Hak: moy made something similar with motion blur/ rotations etc
[12:57] Stickman Ingmann: Moy made a viewport for an FPS using that effect.
[12:57] Stickman Ingmann: Including the FPS.
[12:57] Simon Linden: wow, if you turn on the "show updates" option, that thing is just sending them non-stop
[12:57] Skills Hak: lol yea
[12:58] ac14 Hutson: almost as bad as a tail
[12:58] Stickman Ingmann: Yeah. It's updating hundreds of faces.
[12:58] Skills Hak: that's nothing compared to some other stuff
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: ya, Simon, its cyclign the settext "wrong" heh
[12:58] Hexapoda: How do I turn on "show updates"?
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: its different text each phase instead of the same text each phase, which would be all you'd need to update anything that was updated last phase
[12:58] Whirly Fizzle: Laggy the cat is worse :D
[12:59] Seewo (siwo): wooow :o
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: *wasn't updated
[12:59] Simon Linden: yeah, Laggy is causing a lot too
[12:59] Whirly Fizzle: Oh thats a cool whatsit thingy Skills
[12:59] Simon Linden: So does the one reading the book
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: but it you look at your bandwidth, tis not taking a hit for teh changing
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: the textures are quasi-cached
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: its all alpha changing
[13:00] Stickman Ingmann: Because LL decided to do Pathfinding code instead of object animation code. I still don't understand that decision. :( Skeletons for objects, which we don't have a proper replacement for, instead of pathfinding that most people end up disabling, which we do have a lot of tools for.
[13:00] Hexapoda: what do "Show Updates" show and what is the color codes?
[13:00] LagMeterVer4e: Prims Are Getting Low At Location: Linden Village - Simon Linden
[13:00] Skills Hak: 1mbit now :D
[13:00] Whirly Fizzle: lol now its going crazy
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: I'm at a steady 256k in and out of the changing
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: uh boy
[13:00] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Where is "Show Updates?"
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: prim pos/rot updating
[13:01] ac14 Hutson: pathfinding was easy and built into the physics engine
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: now that will be a hit
[13:01] Skills Hak: shift cvtrl alt u
[13:01] Hexapoda: alt-ctrl-shift-u
[13:01] Whirly Fizzle: CTRL+ALT+Q to enable Develop (top menu bar), Develop -> Show info -> show updates to objects
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: SKills' worms added another 500k to me
[13:01] Tsukasa Kadoya (tendou.shiu): Thanks :D
[13:01] rcdsQueChatLog: Mona Eberhardt, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[13:02] Stickman Ingmann: Pathfinding isn't granular enough to be useful, is missing a lot of usability functions, and we still can't animate things we use pathfinding on. I did a whole big project with pathfinding only to have to strip it out at the end.
[13:02] Hexapoda: What do the red and blue represent?
[13:02] Whirly Fizzle: Update colours are explained here http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/About_the_Update_Indicators
[13:03] Stickman Ingmann: Thanks for office hours, Simon.
[13:03] Stickman Ingmann: Was nice to get my questions answered.
[13:03] Hexapoda: thanks for the url
[13:03] Stickman Ingmann: Oh wait, user groups.
[13:03] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good chat
Simulator_User_Group
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