Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-04-15

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on April 15th, 2010
= Agenda =
* Discuss resolution of previous open items.
* Updates
** 1.38 is in pilot roll now.
*** Are the bunnies doing ok?
** 1.40 info
** Havok 7 testing info.
*** Timeline for physical objects >32 prims? Was described as "post Havok 7."
** Getting private regions into ADITI for 1.40 testing.
** 1.42 info
*** tcmalloc
* Releases
** 1.38.2 1st week in May
* Any other business
** what you want to talk about goes here.
= Resolved Items =
= Meeting Minutes =
* We talked about 1.38 stuff
* We talked about 1.40 and Havok 7 stuff
* We talked about 1.42 and tcmalloc stuff
* Simon talked about the things he is working on
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for April 15th, 2010:
* [15:00] Lil Linden: howdy all
* [15:00] Ima Mechanique: hi lil
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: hi hi
* [15:01] Merato Zilz: oskar, you are 20 seconds late
* [15:01] Merato Zilz: unnaceptable
* [15:01] SHAMUS Carter: •*•.. HahahaA •*•.. 
* [15:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hey Oskar
* [15:01] SHAMUS Carter: Hewwo :3
* [15:01] Lares Carter: heya Oskar , heya everyone :)
* [15:01] SHAMUS Carter: oskar
* [15:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: And Lil
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: don't push it merato
* [15:02] SHAMUS Carter: eeps.
* [15:02] Merato Zilz: <_<
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: there was a new girl pulling shots of espresso at the bakery across the street
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: felt the need to introduce himself
* [15:02] Merato Zilz: lame.
* [15:03] Merato Zilz: oh
* [15:03] Merato Zilz: wiat
* [15:03] Merato Zilz: i thought you meant that she was just taking too long
* [15:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hey Simon
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: and now that that is on the record
* [15:03] Merato Zilz: since she was new
* [15:03] Simon Linden: hello
* [15:03] Moundsa Mayo: Hey, this could lead to the breeding of more Oskars - a very good thing!
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: hey simon's here
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: we are not talking about oskars breeding habits
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: it's not on the agenda
* [15:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: Heyia maestro
* [15:04] Simon Linden: "Breeding Oskars" ?? did I show up at a bad time?
* [15:04] Gooden Uggla: oskar... i can't think of a better reason for being late
* [15:04] Maestro Linden: hi guys
* [15:04] Merato Zilz: can we slate it for another meeting?
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: thanks gooden
* [15:04] Gooden Uggla: hiya simon
* [15:04] Gooden Uggla: hi maestro
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: speaking of the agenda
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: here it is https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours#Agenda
* [15:04] Ima Mechanique: somebody put Breeding Oskars into other business on the agenda
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: how are you all doing this week?
* [15:04] Clix Diesel: Good thank you
* [15:04] Draconis Neurocam: good
* [15:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: Doing pretty wlel
* [15:04] SHAMUS Carter: so far so good
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:05] Merato Zilz: other then everything covered in yellow and green, its all good
* [15:05] SHAMUS Carter: looks liek the piolot roll is going well
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so first things first
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: 1.38.1
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: More dev Linens! I'm just saying ...
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: [Lindens]
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: like omg it's like so out there already
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: gawsh
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: maestro. how did the deploy go?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: or lil?
* [15:06] Maestro Linden: smoothly enough
* [15:06] Lil Linden: it went out fine
* [15:06] SHAMUS Carter: no bunny murder?
* [15:06] Lil Linden: unforunately no, it was quite boring :)
* [15:06] Ima Mechanique: can we get some chicken deaths?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: my next question would be directed at all of you
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: how did it go?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: Gooden reported a possible notecard issue
* [15:07] Ima Mechanique: seems fine so far
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: bummer, i kinda like the idea of bunnicide (now that it's not easter, that is)
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: yeah, I don't so much
* [15:07] Katelyn Manamiko: I noticed a hiccup with voice being disabled on the estate level. Other peopel have noticed this, too, and I think it;s being dealt with?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it was a vivox outage afaik
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: yup, but it appears to be a case where a signle prim rezzing device runs into errors, not a bug
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: it just lovingly coincided with the exact time of the pilot roll
* [15:08] Maestro Linden: was this on mainland, Katelyn, or a private estate?
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: believe me, it caused a LOT of panic here
* [15:08] Katelyn Manamiko: chuckles
* [15:08] Lil Linden: it sure did.
* [15:08] Maestro Linden: (there was another hiccup recently where voice got disabled on mainland, which happened a bit before the 1.38.1 pilot roll)
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: you will notice that neither maestro or myself have any hair
* [15:08] Moundsa Mayo: heh
* [15:08] Ima Mechanique: didn't the voice go down before the pilot roll, for several days on and off?
* [15:08] Gooden Uggla: sorry about that, but it freaked us out too
* [15:08] Merato Zilz: ive beenmeaning to point that out
* [15:08] Psi Merlin: Snark looks OK, the freeze rates are higher than normal but simlilar to 1.36.4 before the restart so maybe its a loaded simhost.
* [15:09] Merato Zilz: you seem to have a shark lodged on your head as of late
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: sharks are hairless
* [15:09] Clix Diesel: Really fishy o.o
* [15:09] Ayamo Nozaki: SVC-3895 go.
* [15:09] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895: 
* [#SVC-3895] Mono scripted: object cripples sim FPS
* [15:09] JIRA-helper (left: hip): 
* [#SVC-3895] Mono scripted: object cripples sim FPS
* [15:09] Merato Zilz: moreso then usual?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: we know ayamo
* [15:09] Ayamo Nozaki: I know, you know, just when.
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: that was supposed to be fixed in 1.38
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: and was
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: but it introduced the bug that we had to pull 1.38.0 for
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: so... long story short we have to wait until mono gets upgraded
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: or so the mono community has told us
* [15:10] Charlene Trudeau: ugh
* [15:10] SHAMUS Carter: ugh
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: +1 to that
* [15:10] Gooden Uggla: so not fixed...
* [15:10] Merato Zilz: what in particular in the mono scripts is causing that?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it _was_
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: but it introduced a new bug that we can't code around
* [15:11] Merato Zilz: or is it a blanket mono problem
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: and is fixed in newer versions of mono itself
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: it is in mono's blanket
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: as I understand it
* [15:11] Merato Zilz: i get that, nevermind. -_-
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so... yeah. that's it
* [15:11] Merato Zilz: theres not one part of mono scipts thats causing it right?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we are rolling the full grid to 1.38.1 next week right lil?
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: the question i get asked when i explain this to people is "why don't they update mono more often?" - to which i don't really have an answer more than "because... it's complicated..."
* [15:12] Maestro Linden: one of kelly's comments in SVC-3895 summarizes the situation quite well
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: that is a good question Gooden
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: if you remember server updates in the past, the answer is 'we are'
* [15:13] Lares Carter: here the link to kellys comment: 
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: there are a lot of things involved in pulling different pieces into different release schedules
* [15:13] Ima Mechanique: hmm, I just tell people it causes Lindens to lose sleep and hair. Then point out Oskar used to be a hippy
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: part of the problem is legacy related given that a large majority of what is considered 'server code' is in one repository
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I actually did used to have long golden locks of hair IMA
* [15:14] Merato Zilz: i dont habeeb
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: I left that in the 90's
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: literally
* [15:14] Ima Mechanique: see what the stress of being a Linden does to you :-(
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: dec 31, 1999 I let a girl cut it all off and shave my head bald
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: ironically, i shaved and started growing long hair in the 90's...
* [15:14] Ima Mechanique: was her name Delilah?
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: go figure...
* [15:14] Mono Nemeth: nothing wrong with evolving faster
* [15:14] Nomad Padar: Kinky.
* [15:14] Merato Zilz: so yea...
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: hmm, what was her name
* [15:14] Project Neox: Mmm
* [15:14] Merato Zilz: before we degrade to more oskar breeding...
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: I should remember
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: shrugs
* [15:15] Nomad Padar: Regina Spektor?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:15] Gooden Uggla: "girl with scissors"
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: oh I wish
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: lurvs regina
* [15:15] Nomad Padar: You're not Samson?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: mentally
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: <_<
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: in computer circles 'strength' is defined by the size of your beard
* [15:15] Ima Mechanique: lol
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: lil, how awesome is my beard?
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: '
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: its epic
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: merato knows
* [15:16] Gooden Uggla: i thought it was by how much food your beard held...
* [15:16] Gooden Uggla: learn something new eveyr day...
* [15:16] Simon Linden: The beard is truly epic
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: peanut butter cookies now
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: i saw him getting eyed over at slcc
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: heh. thanks simon :-D
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: by the ladies
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: 'eyed over' huh
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: yea
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: o k ...
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: next topic
* [15:16] Merato Zilz: won't mention details
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: 1.40
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: milo isn't here is he?
* [15:17] Gooden Uggla: simon is correct, it is beardly braids of awesomeness
* [15:17] Merato Zilz: whats the biggest fixes/changes with 1.4?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: havok 7
* [15:17] Merato Zilz: really?
* [15:17] Merato Zilz: wow
* [15:17] Merato Zilz: that soon
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: there was some internal confusion this week about what was getting into 1.40, but we got it all sorted out
* [15:17] Latif Khalifa: i thought havok 7 was postponed to 1.42?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: havok 7 is going into 1.40
* [15:17] Xugu Madison: and drum roll please.... ETA for 1.40 Oskar?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: who told you that latif?
* [15:17] Gooden Uggla: ~~>> Drums Roll..........
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: 1.40 ETA end of May
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: fingers crossed
* [15:18] Merato Zilz: nice
* [15:18] Gooden Uggla: nice!
* [15:18] Xugu Madison: thought 1.42 would be Mono 2.6.1
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we branch on the 29th
* [15:18] Latif Khalifa: you or falcon, last week here
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: 1.44 is the mono upgrades
* [15:18] Merato Zilz: what does it take to get one on the beta grid?
* [15:18] Xugu Madison: win!
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: latif, that was the confusion we cleared up
* [15:18] Latif Khalifa: cool
* [15:18] Xugu Madison: oh, yes, 1.42 is TC Malloc isn't it...
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: one what merato?
* [15:18] Ima Mechanique: when should we expect 1.40 generally across aditi? couple weeks?
* [15:18] Merato Zilz: sim on the beta grid for H& testing?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: well first step
* [15:19] Xugu Madison: (I'm massively sleep deprived, please don't anyone quote me later)
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: get all the code in and merged
* [15:19] Merato Zilz: h7**
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: second step
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: branch the code
* [15:19] Nomad Padar: step 3: Profit.
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: third step deploy it here
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: so
* [15:19] Huns Valen: swell
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: as early as the 30th of April
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: again, fingers crossed
* [15:19] Xugu Madison: anything apart from H7 in 1.40?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: oh yeah
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: but I'll let you know later :-D
* [15:19] Merato Zilz: right. so get back to you next week on it?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: we are still working on that
* [15:20] Simon Linden: I added some code for region crossings which we can talk about sometime
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: nope
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: get back to you when 1.40 branches
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: that's when we'll know for certain
* [15:20] Huns Valen: Simon let's talk about region crossing today if there is time
* [15:20] Merato Zilz: so next next week :P (kidding)
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: it's like grabbing a slice of pizza too early. you need to let the cheese congeal
* [15:20] Gooden Uggla: simon does that mean you think you fixed the "dive" and "overshooting" on handoffs?
* [15:20] SuesseMaus Hotaling: omg
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: 1.40's chesse is congealing
* [15:20] Merato Zilz: i prefer pizza the temperature of lava
* [15:21] Gooden Uggla: asked anyways
* [15:21] Merato Zilz: but thats just for taste
* [15:21] Nomad Padar: Quick, define congeal!
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: i know kelly added some more linked params goodnes, like NAME and DESC
* [15:21] Xugu Madison: microwaves 1.40 because he's impatient
* [15:21] Merato Zilz: i understand the terminology
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: ok Xugu, /me sets up your region for fail
* [15:21] Xugu Madison: Oskar, will it be exciting fail? :)
* [15:21] SHAMUS Carter: would wather have a sim properly tested
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: probably not
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: your bunnies will die
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: physically
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: spectacular!
* [15:22] SHAMUS Carter: NOOOOoooOOOOoooooo...
* [15:22] Merato Zilz: hotpockets
* [15:22] Mono Nemeth: yawns
* [15:22] Xugu Madison: Nooooooo. I'm sorry. I'm stonebake next time, I swear!
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: so mono 2.6 is scheduled for 1.44?
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: was hoping 1.42 xD
* [15:22] Gooden Uggla: we all were latif...
* [15:22] SuesseMaus Hotaling: om please write newbie friendly here
* [15:23] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xDD
* [15:23] Nomad Padar: what is mono 2.6?
* [15:23] SHAMUS Carter: stuff happens when it happens
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: mono 2.6 is scheduled for 1.44 afaik
* [15:23] SuesseMaus Hotaling: yes
* [15:23] SHAMUS Carter: mono == fancy scripty thingy
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: so on the topic of 1.40
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: I wanted to talk about private region testing
* [15:23] SuesseMaus Hotaling: ok
* [15:23] Gooden Uggla: *perks*
* [15:23] SHAMUS Carter: ok
* [15:23] Gooden Uggla: yes pplease
* [15:24] Techwolf Lupindo: ears perk up
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: closer to the date I will be asking for requests for which regions get added for that testing period
* [15:24] SuesseMaus Hotaling: i hear
* [15:24] SuesseMaus Hotaling: :D
* [15:24] Latif Khalifa: mono 2.6 brings hope of ending sim freezes (well at least one of the major causes) and simon will free us from the rest by his magnificent thrededer rezzing project xD
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: it's too hard for me to track all the regions people want
* [15:24] Xugu Madison: Nomad; there were issues with the Mono lag fixes that nearly went live in 1.38, that require a more recent version of Mono to be able to address. That's what Mono 2.6 will give us
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: so I'm going to be doing a 1 shot kind of thing.
* [15:24] Xugu Madison: Oskar, can I volunteer random regions I don't own, but am in a lot? :)
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: good idea oskar
* [15:24] Merato Zilz: oskar... oh was gonna ask you to remind me, but oh well :P
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: everyone who communicates to me that they want their region in aditi for testing for that region gets their region in aditi for that server release
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: then it gives us a small list of regions we can make sure stay up
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: right now it is pretty confusing for us
* [15:25] Merato Zilz: afaik tizz wouldnt mind changing over the sandbox.
* [15:25] Katelyn Manamiko: Merato he said something about soviet
* [15:25] Katelyn Manamiko: shrugs
* [15:25] Merato Zilz: either or/both
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: I will be communicating that out more broadly soon
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: I will take this opportunity to introduce the mailing list once again: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: for those that are not on it
* [15:26] Merato Zilz: eh, i'll get around to it
* [15:26] SHAMUS Carter: yay for list servs
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: it looks like someone added Timeline for physical objects >32 prims? Was described as "post Havok 7." to my agenda
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: ignoring the 'any other business' section
* [15:26] Merato Zilz: i only mentioned it last time, who added it? o_O
* [15:26] Gooden Uggla: is lining up shopaholic testers as you speak
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: ok, who did that? :-)
* [15:27] Huns Valen: me because I didn't read it all the way. sorry about that
* [15:27] Merato Zilz: it was immediatly debunked the second i mentioned it
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: I don't know the exact date
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: falcon didn't give one and there isn't one
* [15:27] Merato Zilz: falcon linden p.much gave a no go?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: you will all be the first to know
* [15:27] Merato Zilz: thats what i recall
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: he defined it differently
* [15:27] Merato Zilz: he said
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: he said we 'might' create the ability to have large linked sets with individual prims being able to set to physical
* [15:28] Merato Zilz: that he had implementation that would add prims that would not be physical
* [15:28] Merato Zilz: right
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: like tires or boat hulls
* [15:28] Huns Valen: any prim after 31 was supposed to be nonphysical from what I heard here last week
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: that would solve the issue
* [15:28] Merato Zilz: or airships ^_^
* [15:28] Nomad Padar: i think only 32 would be physical, and all others were to be phantom.
* [15:28] Merato Zilz: still the 32 limit is ancient.
* [15:28] Latif Khalifa: i would personally love to be able to set per prim "phantom"
* [15:29] Katelyn Manamiko: I agree with latif
* [15:29] SHAMUS Carter: that would be far better then what we have now
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:29] Huns Valen: well we've been dying for that since 2003 so that would be super duper and if he does that I will buy him a beer next time I am there
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: so that answers that
* [15:29] Merato Zilz: i know we'd see a lot more content if it were only bumped slightly
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: and on to 1.42 briefly
* [15:29] Merato Zilz: the 32 prim limit i thought was a relic from h2
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: 1.42 is all about TC Malloc
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: instrumentation ftw
* [15:30] Ima Mechanique: what's TC Malloc in English ;-)
* [15:30] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xDD
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: well at least codewise tcmalloc is the largest part
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: threaded code memory allocation ?
* [15:30] SuesseMaus Hotaling: what is 32 prim limit
* [15:30] SuesseMaus Hotaling: ?
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: maybe
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: simon tcmalloc?
* [15:30] Xugu Madison: lives in desparate, naive hope that we can reduce the memory usage of scripts from pure server-side changes. 1.42 should help the Lindens understand what's going on, and possibly do that.
* [15:30] Latif Khalifa: thread caching
* [15:31] Huns Valen: physical objects cannot have more than 32 prims. that's the limit
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: that is the idea xugu
* [15:31] Simon Linden: I don't know what's going on with tcmalloc
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I meant what it stands for
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: it is a new memory manager
* [15:31] Nomad Padar: thread caching memory allocation?
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: and it gives us one great thing
* [15:31] Simon Linden: Other than we used to have it in the simulator, took it out a while back, and I think it's going back in.
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: probably monad
* [15:31] Xugu Madison: Babbage mentioned some regions using 2GB RAM, but can't reproduce the problem under lab conditions, so TCMalloc on live will give them the tools to find out what's gong on
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: it gives us the ability on the fly to do performance profiling
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: and we really need that
* [15:31] Simon Linden: It should help with some low-level performance and internal tools
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: we will be releasing a pre-beta tcmalloc testing setup kind of like we did for havok7
* [15:32] Nomad Padar: Dynamic memory allocation = win.
* [15:32] SHAMUS Carter: cool beans
* [15:32] Merato Zilz: low level = good
* [15:32] Latif Khalifa: yeah there are definetly resource leaks as sims get slower and slwoer with the uptime
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: 2 things we are hoping to gain
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: testing our metrics versus what we gather in 1.38 now
* [15:32] Nomad Padar: and requires careful coding :o
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: making sure tcmalloc gives the same results
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: then load testing
* [15:32] Simon Linden: We do sometimes get bloat on regions over a long time (days to weeks) and I think this will help determine what's going on
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: load testing is where you guys will help out :-)
* [15:33] Merato Zilz: im good at that
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: but I will be continuing that conversation later
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: I just wanted to mention it now
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: little too early
* [15:33] Merato Zilz: i want a job at LL just for load testing
* [15:33] Xugu Madison: Another excuse to empty my inventory into a poor, defenseless region? Win!
* [15:33] Merato Zilz: spam linden
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: but just keeping you guys in the loop
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: names our bot army after merato
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: now you do load testing
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: yay
* [15:33] Merato Zilz: wewt!
* [15:34] Latif Khalifa: Simon, yeah, right after restert, mono or no mono, my sim sees no freezes, it's afer 4-5 days they start to appear, and after two weeks it's unusable with 30-60sec freezes every few mins
* [15:34] Nomad Padar: That's weird Latif.
* [15:34] Techwolf Lupindo: growls
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: so...
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: 1.38.2
* [15:35] Simon Linden: Our crash rates slowly go up too after a new version is rolled out, so there definitely is some memory and/or resource leak
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: and maybe a 1.38.3
* [15:35] Latif Khalifa: it's not weird, it's a common occurance all across the grid for busy sims that see a lot of people coming and going
* [15:35] Mono Nemeth: notices similiar behavior on a longer timeline
* [15:35] Offset Animations: Reset.
* [15:35] Techwolf Lupindo: Took me 10 minutes to log back into here. Why the log in delay? Ther only 30 or so folk on the beta grid as compare to main grid of 70K users.
* [15:35] Psi Merlin: As Latif says the freezes grow in length as uptime increases, I have records tracking it for two regions.
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: aditi is really stressed
* [15:36] Latif Khalifa: aditi is sort broken, doesn't remember your last location and it takes foreever do dump you some random place :P
* [15:36] Ima Mechanique: Aditi's been stressing for a few weeks now
* [15:36] Merato Zilz: aditi has been in a midlife crisis as long as i can remember
* [15:37] SHAMUS Carter: aditi has not realy been it's self since like june or july
* [15:37] Latif Khalifa: you mean sicne Oskar took over? :P
* [15:37] Merato Zilz: it caught the swine flu
* [15:37] Moy Loon: :o
* [15:37] kizmut Smit: LOL
* [15:37] Huns Valen: :(
* [15:37] SHAMUS Carter: hides
* [15:37] Mono Nemeth: familiarity in beta haha good1
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: wait what?
* [15:38] Gooden Uggla: it's not weird, parrothead cove which has 20 multi-game players 24 hours a day has the freezes starting within 36 hours
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: it quite common, the freezes
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: (unless the sim doesn't get any traffic)
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: aditi is used by a lot of people now
* [15:38] Xugu Madison: So... 1.38.2 and above, anything specific intended for those?
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: there are all sorts of hidden regions open for limited group testing
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: it taxes aditi
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: understandable
* [15:39] SHAMUS Carter: ahhhh
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: that and infrastructure changes that aditi hasn't caught up to
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: long story
* [15:39] Latif Khalifa: there is something wrong with the login server for sure
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: maestro, lil? fix logins for latif
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:39] SuesseMaus Hotaling: ah gostsims?
* [15:39] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xD
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: mmm i'll see what it says
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: i thought is was just that morris and ahern need cleaning up :P
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: it's actually about time for an aditi wipe in prep for 1.40
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: physically cleaning up :-D
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: yay!
* [15:40] SHAMUS Carter: hehe
* [15:40] kizmut Smit: oh yes
* [15:40] Merato Zilz: just bring a new copy over?
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: I'm probably going to be nuking these 2 regions into the ground
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: question: does that wipe private regions?
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: so any objects you guys need take them now
* [15:40] Xugu Madison: Can I watch? :)
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: just saying
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: yes please oskar
* [15:40] SuesseMaus Hotaling: where can i found invisible sims?
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: no gooden
* [15:40] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xD
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: awesome
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: it just means cleaning up the versioning of simulators and centrals
* [15:41] Gooden Uggla: starts shopping xstreet for a "mushroom clud" texture to gift to Oskar
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: 1.38.2 will be out here soon
* [15:41] Merato Zilz: i've got a few nukes
* [15:41] SuesseMaus Hotaling: YEEEAAAAHH!!!
* [15:41] SHAMUS Carter: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*Yayyyyyyy!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: I'll message you all with the changes
* [15:41] SuesseMaus Hotaling: a givt for oskar xDD
* [15:41] SuesseMaus Hotaling: haha
* [15:41] SuesseMaus Hotaling: okk
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: pretty minimal stuff iirc
* [15:42] Gooden Uggla: is there anything specific we should test for in 1.38.2?
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: we're making some dataserver changes and need to wait til the first of may to release 1.38.2
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: I'll let you know once we get it on here gooden
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: thanks for asking
* [15:42] Gooden Uggla: kk
* [15:42] Maestro Linden: yeah, what oskar said.
* [15:43] Ayamo Nozaki: whispers: nice nail-polish
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: thanks
* [15:43] SHAMUS Carter: so osker you will post the logs befor the next meetign right ;-)
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: I always post the logs... just not always in the most timely manner
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: I apologize for that
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: see if I can get these out quicker :-)
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: why all the jumping today?
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: moy, what did you start?
* [15:44] SHAMUS Carter: good question
* [15:44] Nomad Padar: we are testing physics.
* [15:45] Ayamo Nozaki: whispers: yea
* [15:45] Huns Valen: moy is always up to no good
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: i doubt that
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: everybody's getting pumped up for H7 testing
* [15:45] Katelyn Manamiko: griffers
* [15:45] Moy Loon: I can't see why people stand still all the time while in a video game
* [15:45] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xD
* [15:45] Katelyn Manamiko: all of them
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: because I am always typing
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: especially in a meeting I am leading
* [15:45] Sebastean Steamweaver: With H7, we should disable the avatar no-fly limit :D
* [15:45] Merato Zilz: i find that the opposite moy
* [15:45] Merato Zilz: mario and sonic games, all you do is jump
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: there. now I'm moving
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: happy moy?
* [15:45] Moy Loon: Well, I've always moved around in SL, It's kinda 'strange' to see so many people standing still
* [15:46] Merato Zilz: how about a video game where you just stand and talk
* [15:46] SHAMUS Carter: yah know thats a good point why is funasisted flight still limited?
* [15:46] Nomad Padar: Oskar, I think you need a jump animation, to trick people.
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it's a technical discussion. in world appearnce is secondary to chat content
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: Sebastian++ fly limits just make everyone wear "flight feathers" and other laggy scripts
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: and I try to make the content full of good info, not just walking around posing
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: is no poser
* [15:46] Mono Nemeth: wonders why this sim is averaging 50% efficiency, cant someone just see what scripts are effecting the sim and return/reject them
* [15:46] Xugu Madison: personally has chat fairly much covering the display, for example
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: returns Mono
* [15:47] Nomad Padar: I think you're just prejudice, against jumping.
* [15:47] Mono Nemeth: combined with a reboot.. we should be all good
* [15:47] Merato Zilz: after we could rez things past 1000 meters
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: I'm only here like an hour a week mono
* [15:47] Merato Zilz: the no fly joke became even more a joke
* [15:47] kizmut Smit: ouch
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: I forget about it all the other times
* [15:47] Mono Nemeth: =]
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: but it is due for a good scrubbing
* [15:47] SuesseMaus Hotaling: gifts from xstreet landing in normal sl xDD
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: but we would lose prospero's prims
* [15:48] Sebastean Steamweaver: imagines taking someone's avatar into his inventory, and wonders if that was actually possible at some point in the distant SL past.
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: poor prospero
* [15:48] Merato Zilz: i tried it
* [15:48] Nomad Padar: I wanna hear about how epic mono 2.6 or w/e will be.
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: me too nomad
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: but all in good time
* [15:48] Merato Zilz: [14:48
* [14:48] SL Remote: Deposit: TRACKER DEBUG - ally or replace me with a new copy. at Ahern <12.25202, 5.41459, 39.52367>
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: big summer for us though
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: the stuff lined up ...
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: and I thought this week was rough
* [15:48] SHAMUS Carter: hehe
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: i suspect sim freezes arenot going away with just the mono upgrade, there is some resource leak lurkig in there
* [15:49] Xugu Madison: Stuff... beyond Mono 2.6.1?
* [15:49] Mono Nemeth: Remote deposit boxes are obsoleet, I would expect errors from one
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: we're working on it latif
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: but yeah
* [15:49] Merato Zilz: i know
* [15:49] SuesseMaus Hotaling: i have see a xstreat atm in beta but nor working XDD
* [15:49] Nomad Padar: Maybe we should talk about the TPV politics.
* [15:49] Merato Zilz: its been here for ever
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: improvements are being made
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: albeit slowly
* [15:49] Merato Zilz: before they were obsolete
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: hopefully simon can fill us in on his multi-threaded rezzing, how's that going?
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: but there is progress and if you look back far enough you can see it
* [15:49] Xugu Madison: I have to say, I think improvements are really speeding up again...
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: simon, what are you working on these days?
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Object: Touched.: 
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: that you can tell us about
* [15:50] Simon Linden: Mostly perfromance
* [15:50] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xstreet not working in beta xD but i have se a atm in beta
* [15:50] Latif Khalifa: rezzing performance?
* [15:50] SuesseMaus Hotaling: xD
* [15:50] SHAMUS Carter: preformance is good
* [15:50] Simon Linden: The part that should be in 1.40 involves region crossings and TP arrivals
* [15:50] Phox ModularSystems: Mmm
* [15:50] Phox ModularSystems: Amazing
* [15:50] SHAMUS Carter: ohh?
* [15:50] Phox ModularSystems: I'm really happy to hear that Simon :o
* [15:50] Nomad Padar: Simon I love it when you talk dirty.
* [15:50] Huns Valen: super duper
* [15:50] Simon Linden: Right now the simulator basically stops what it's doing, processes the incoming AV or object, does all the work (causing lag for everyone on the region) before continuing
* [15:50] Moy Loon: Will it make teleports faster? Or just less laggy for pubbies with 400 scripts on?
* [15:51] Xugu Madison: Simon; any chance we can get an option to set scripts as not to be serialised for teleport/region crossing?
* [15:51] Huns Valen: does that mean vehicles won't be as susceptible to twilight zoning
* [15:51] Simon Linden: The work I did will multithread this processing ... so there should be less lag for everyone in the region when someone arrives
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: yeah, that's what we're seeing, also on exit, not only on entry
* [15:51] Simon Linden: Someone else is just starting to look at the case of leaving the region
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: do you do serialization bits on exit in a separate thread too?
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: ah ok
* [15:51] Moundsa Mayo: Simon, are the 'static' parts of scripts already serialized so only the variables need serialization?
* [15:51] Xugu Madison: auto-reset on inventory change would also be a nice option to set for scripts, rather than having to handled in-script for each state
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: exit can be just as bad
* [15:52] Gooden Uggla: personally, adding an estate control for the owner or managers to set a "max script time" limit on inbound TPs would be a good stopgap measure
* [15:52] SuesseMaus Hotaling: give it a german office hour also? xD
* [15:52] Simon Linden: The area that will need testing when we get 1.40 onto aditi is region crossings ... need to make sure it hasn't gotten worse for the person doing the crossing
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: guessing that script and prim serialization is done in a blocking way too now
* [15:52] Moundsa Mayo: (Well, and internal state stuff)
* [15:52] Gooden Uggla: wouldn't stop people from wearing things obnce they were there, but...
* [15:52] Simon Linden: I think you're right about that, Latif
* [15:53] Xugu Madison: Gooden; eh, why do have measures. Have a "Naked on teleport arrival" flag :)
* [15:53] Xugu Madison: half, even
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: Simon, perhaps include that in multi-threaded work at some point too?
* [15:53] Gooden Uggla: XUgu... i'd do that if i could :)
* [15:53] Simon Linden: Yes Latif, someone's about to start measurements there to confirm it's a problem worth fixing
* [15:53] Try moving: closer. Can't sit on object because
* it is not in the same region as you.
* [15:54] Gooden Uggla: but the main culprits seem to always be over 1 ms in script time
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: it is trust me, i see long freezes on tp out for prim and script heavy avatars
* [15:54] Nomad Padar: Help I'm being griefed!
* [15:54] Gooden Uggla: what latif said
* [15:54] Simon Linden: It's related, but some viewer devs are looking at the update code that's repsonsible for the rubber-banding.
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: Simon, I don't think it's viewer, I see problems on teleport out
* [15:55] Phox ModularSystems: I gotta go, got a meeting on agni, bye everyone, thanks Oskar
* [15:55] Huns Valen: I turn off physics on my vehicles when they go over sim borders and it eliminates that
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: the whole sim freezes, the same as for tp in
* [15:55] Simon Linden: Unfortunately the viewer today is really not very smart about it .. .it will slam you back into a position instead of figuring out that you're going to be soon close to where you are, for example
* [15:55] Xugu Madison: Seeya Phox!
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: thx phox
* [15:55] Moy Loon: I'm gonna go aswell :o
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: g/l in ur meeting
* [15:55] Moy Loon: See ya later Oskar :o
* [15:55] Nomad Padar: I think someone needs to be in charge of rewriting pipeline.
* [15:55] Merato Zilz: phox when can we go car shopping?
* [15:55] Gooden Uggla: afternoon phox
* [15:55] Psi Merlin: You can clearly see the entry / exit lags on a 'fast time dilation viewers' link Moon's one (one Ahern and Morris)
* [15:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: By the way, did we ever get our "This is who Oskar is" announcement?
* [15:56] Ayamo Nozaki: whispers: nice kart too.
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: mm we'll get rid of this 1.36 region soon enough
* [15:56] Simon Linden: I don't doubt that leaving a region causes lag too, we just need to get real data showing it so we can measure before and after. Otherwise, performance work is just taking shots in the dark
* [15:56] Merato Zilz: its more croweded here then usual
* [15:56] Gooden Uggla: his picture says it all
* [15:57] Nomad Padar: Leaving a region causes a hang if the avatar is full up on mono.
* [15:57] Huns Valen: full of ne'er do wells
* [15:57] Xugu Madison: idly wonders if the best way of introducing script memory limits would be to initially give estate managers the ability to set per-avatar limits, and anyone over that has no scripts (as if it's a no-script parcel)
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: oh that is right seb... I totally forgot
* [15:58] Phox ModularSystems: Oh oops, wrong grid... >_> Ugh
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: let me add that to the agenda for next week
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: hi phox
* [15:58] Katelyn Manamiko: lol phox
* [15:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ok :)
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: need a kick off phox?
* [15:58] Merato Zilz: go for the extra point
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: well this is probably a fine place to end the meeting
* [15:58] Nomad Padar: 100+ mono scripts will hang for about a second, when you get to about 300 mono scripts leaving it becomes more than noticeable
* [15:59] Latif Khalifa: meeting/turned griefing session lol
* [15:59] Project Neox: Yeah
* [15:59] Nomad Padar: (On my client anyway)
* [15:59] Xugu Madison: Thanks for hosting, Lindens!
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: xugu.... if that avatar's scripts were to silently fail, or to make the TP fail, it would help immensely
* [15:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Thank you indeed :)
* [15:59] Ima Mechanique: thanks for having us
* [15:59] Xugu Madison: Gooden, I'm mostly asleep, you want to JIRA that?
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: thanks for coming
* [15:59] Huns Valen: thanks for working on havok 7
* [15:59] Simon Linden: Yeah, mono scripts unfortunately require more memory, which translates into more memory to save, send to the new region, deserialize and process
* [15:59] Project Neox: Bye :D
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: as a feature request? sure
* [16:00] Ima Mechanique: I have to run, want to try and get an hour on PoP:SoT
* [16:00] Ima Mechanique: before bed time
* [16:00] Psi Merlin: Thanks Oskal, Lil, Simon, Mastero
* [16:00] Xugu Madison: Gooden, cool. Throw me a note on Agni and I'll vote in the morning (UK time)
* [16:00] Latif Khalifa: take care Ima
* [16:00] Merato Zilz: oh that comes out tonight?
* [16:00] Nomad Padar: Does the 1.38 or w/e it is have functionality to limit mono memory used?
* [16:00] Ima Mechanique: night all
* [16:00] Xugu Madison: Simon, hence why we need to set some scripts as not needing their state serialised :)
* [16:00] Gooden Uggla: np
* [16:00] Latif Khalifa: simo, carry on the good work, just don't forget sim exit is a problem too :D
* [16:00] Simon Linden: No Nomad, there is no enforcement on limits yet
* [16:01] Nomad Padar: I mean, does the scripter have a function to limit it themselves?
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You have 5 seconds until you are booted.
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 5
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 4
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 3
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 2
* [16:01] SHAMUS Carter: but are the times reported to the client?
* [16:01] Psi Merlin: and another win for letting mono script choose a lower memory limit
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 1
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You are not authorized for Oskar's Throne
* [16:01] SuesseMaus Hotaling: *$*LoL *$*
* [16:01] SuesseMaus Hotaling: lool
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You are not authorized for Oskar's Throne
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You have 5 seconds until you are booted.
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 5
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 4
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 3
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 2
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: thanks oskar, simon, maestro, lil, and assorted characters, good meeting
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 1
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: Oskars Throne doesn't like Merato Zilz
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You are not authorized for Oskar's Throne
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: You have 5 seconds until you are booted.
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 5
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 4
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 3
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 2
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: 1
* [16:01] Oskars Throne: Oskars Throne doesn't like Ayamo Nozaki
* [16:01] Maestro Linden: bye guys
* [16:01] Mono Nemeth: where are the tools to measure the limits we have to work within?
* [16:01] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
* [16:01] Simon Linden: Bye folks
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: agreed. thanks all
* [16:01] Nomad Padar: Au Reviour
* [16:01] Latif Khalifa: thank you Simon
* [16:01] Maestro Linden: it's in the script info floater in the viewer
* [16:02] Xugu Madison: See you all!
* [16:02] SHAMUS Carter: thaks all
* [16:02] LadyDi Andel: thanks Lindens - tootles
* [16:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: pooofs to work in 1.38!
* [16:02] Huns Valen: welp
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: and now I have to put together the notes