Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.01.24

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Geenz Spad 	Jonathan Yap
Kadah Coba 	Kallista Destiny	Kelly Linden
Kylee Foxdale 	Liisa Runo 	Mobius Ryba
Nalates Urriah 	Nexii Malthus 	Oz Linden
Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi
Sera Lok 	Simon Linden 	Talarus Luan
TankMaster Finesmith	Techwolf Lupindo	Tiberious Neruda
Vincent Nacon 	Visitor Detector	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:03] Vincent Nacon: I know there was a setting/debug where you can disable that yellow lines
[12:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I hope Runitai fixes this: 2012-01-24T20:02:48Z llrender/llvertexbuffer.cpp(1475) : error
2012-01-24T20:02:48Z ERROR: LLVertexBuffer::mapVertexBuffer: memory allocation for vertex data failed.
[12:04] Talarus Luan: A few fractions of a frame, ok. Not going from 20fps to 2fps
[12:04] Nexii Malthus: Oh Simon/Andrew, could we get articles on the SL community blogs that highlight all the new LSL functions? It would be great if they had publicity
[12:04] TankMaster Finesmith: i think we have a fix for that, koli
[12:04] Vincent Nacon: you gotta aim where you want to sit, Andrew
[12:04] Simon Linden: Koli - that's the crash after the viewer memory bloats up, right?
[12:04] Vincent Nacon: it got proper physic
[12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: No.
[12:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It's when the viewer runs out of VRAM and doesn't know how to handle it.
[12:05] Vincent Nacon: hang on Nexii, they start out with news first, then table would be open
[12:05] Andrew Linden: yes, news first...
[12:05] Rex Cronon: greetings all
[12:06] Simon Linden: well, in any case I'd love a fix ... I typically last 30-90 minutes in the beta viewer before a crash. I haven't made it through a user group in several weeks
[12:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: There's quite a big JIRA regarding it. Runitai's been doing some work on the vertex buffer but his recent commits have brought in a new bug.
[12:06] Andrew Linden: I think I mentioned last week that there was a bug or two in the 8-way neighbor code I had worked on, and was affecting the RC's.
[12:06] Andrew Linden: We've got that fixed, although the last bit of it needs testing.
[12:07] Vincent Nacon: how can we test it?
[12:07] Andrew Linden: I think the plan is to update Magnum with all fixes (if the last one passes) and the other RC channels will get a new codebase that is a different project.
[12:08] Andrew Linden: Well Vincent, the main failure mode is that you can't see into diagonal regions under the 8-way code.
[12:08] Andrew Linden: So if you can see into corner neighbors (or not) then you're testing it.
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: any other news before I ask more question about that?
[12:09] Andrew Linden: That's all the news I've got. Simon or Kelly?
[12:09] Simon Linden: I don't have any news this week
[12:09] Talarus Luan: llSetRegionPos status? :)
[12:10] Simon Linden: It's part of that release Andrew was talking about ... should be updated in Magnum tomorrow
[12:10] Andrew Linden: llSetRegionPos() is in the same project as the 8-way neighbor stuff, so will still be on Magnum I think.
[12:10] Sahkolihaa Contepomi is noticing a lot of 'LLWorld::addRegion:' spam in his log.
[12:10] Vincent Nacon: last week, I've asked about sims in those checkered layout zones, what become of them? It wasn't anwsered, btw
[12:10] Talarus Luan: Ahh ok
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Sahkolihaa, that addRegion() spam is probably related to one of the 8-way neighbor bugs
[12:11] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me getting a lot of this: 2012-01-24T20:10:52Z INFO: process_enable_simulator: simulator_enable() Enabling 216.82.26.218:13006 with code 1513902335
[12:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi nods.
[12:11] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, same.
[12:11] Andrew Linden: yup, that log too Techwolf.
[12:11] TankMaster Finesmith: INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(1070) : process_enable_simulator: simulator_enable() Enabling 216.82.41.9:13000 with code 1513911309
INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(180) : LLWorld::addRegion: Add region with handle: 1125899907100416 on host 216.82.26.218:13006
INFO: newview/llworld.cpp(184) : LLWorld::addRegion: Region exists, removing it
[12:11] Kallista Destiny: This is the casue of all the extrat bandwidth getting used?
[12:12] Kallista Destiny: extra*
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Kallista, are you noticing significantly extra bandwidth?
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Or are you referring to the bandwidth that someone's bot was noticing?
[12:12] Kallista Destiny: I haven't but some people are complaining about it.
[12:12] Andrew Linden: The answer is: yes those are probably related to that particular bug.
[12:12] Kadah Coba: SVC-6894
[12:12] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6894
[#SVC-6894] Excessive EnableSimulator message spamming to viewers
[12:13] Kadah Coba: SVC-7613
[12:13] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7613
[#SVC-7613] Greatly increased network activity since the 1/18/12 RC channel rolling restart
[12:13] Andrew Linden: ah yes. That is fixed in the next Magnum update already I think.
[12:13] Andrew Linden: There is one more fix we'd like to test and include in that update.
[12:13] Kadah Coba: 6894 is from April
[12:13] Andrew Linden: We'll see if we get it done.
[12:13] Andrew Linden: Oh hrm...
[12:13] Techwolf Lupindo: Please update the jira if fixes are in the pipline.
[12:14] Kadah Coba: I'm guessing same outcome, different roots
[12:14] Andrew Linden: Ok, I take that back... if SVC-6894 predates the 8-way neighbor stuff then it is not related.
[12:14] Vincent Nacon: last week, I've asked about sims in those checkered layout zones, what become of them? It wasn't anwsered, btw
[12:15] Kylee Foxdale: "may i please ask a quick question?"
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Vincent, the 8-way neighbor system will only connect to corner neighbors when an adjacent neighbor is shared.
[12:15] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[12:15] Andrew Linden: So that prevents the kitty-corner private islands from seeing into corner neighbors.
[12:15] Qie Niangao: I'm seeing a lot more Mainland microparcels abandoned and automatically going to auction. Kelly, I wonder if you could talk to Patch or somebody about setting a minimum size of 512 for that. I was bugging Support to glue them together, but I'm tiring of that hobby.
[12:15] Vincent Nacon: aye that was my first concerns
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Yes Kylee. go ahead and ask.
[12:16] Qie Niangao: (sorry: to sale, not "to auction" duh)
[12:16] Andrew Linden: Sure Qie, I'll try to relay your request to Patch.
[12:17] Qie Niangao: Thanks, Andrew.
[12:18] Andrew Linden: Qie, to make sure I'm understanding you... you'd like the smaller parcels to go up for sale rather than auction?
[12:18] Talarus Luan: Yeah, who do we need to talk to in order to get a mainland/land user group meeting again? Since Jack was let go, we haven't had a real forum for land concerns. :-/
[12:18] Qie Niangao: no, it's that they shouldn't go to sale or auction, below a minimum size
[12:18] Talarus Luan: No, we'd like them rejoined to adjacent parcels
[12:18] Qie Niangao: as it is, they get split off in little strips, and abandoned that way, then hard to get restored to usable size
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Ah hrm... you mean adjacent parcels that have also been freed?
[12:19] Jonathan Yap: I thought the plan was to offer them for sale to neighbors and if no takers then put them up for sale
[12:19] Talarus Luan: It just encourages people to start up the microparcel extortion crap again.
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Or to adjacent parcels that are already owned by Residents?
[12:19] Simon Linden: That makes sense, but probably has to be a manual process. I think someone used to do that
[12:19] Kallista Destiny: Keeps land barons from gloaming on to a 16 then asking L$20000 for it.
[12:19] Kylee Foxdale: Yes, please i have a concern about another resident that copybots..everything..i have submitted reports and nothing has been done...this person even had a store open at one time to sell copied items
[12:19] Kylee Foxdale: ;s
[12:19] Rex Cronon: but what is somebody wants to by a small size parcel? they won't be able to get one if all the small ones have been joined
[12:19] Vincent Nacon: wrong person to ask
[12:19] Qie Niangao: Yeah, the process is totally automatic now, which is great for realistic-sized parcels, but not so good when little strips are being sliced off.
[12:19] Vincent Nacon: :/
[12:20] Rex Cronon: what if*
[12:20] Qie Niangao: Rex, there are *plenty* of little parcels available. It's not necessary for the Governor to be making more of them.
[12:20] Talarus Luan: The uses for small-sized parcels are very few, and mostly odious in nature.
[12:21] Talarus Luan: That said, if you REALLY have to have one for a particular "good" use, then buy a larger parcel, cut out a micro, and put the rest for sale.
[12:21] Jonathan Yap: Rent boxes is a good use case
[12:21] Kallista Destiny: Yeah noxious I'd say
[12:21] Rex Cronon: kylee u might have to file a dmca request
[12:22] Talarus Luan: Anyway.. back to the meeting topic genre. :p
[12:22] Rex Cronon: i guess as long as there is at least one or two small parcels the others can be joined
[12:22] Simon Linden: K - I think Rex is right, a DMCA request is the best way to go
[12:22] Tiberious Neruda: pardon my lateness... is there an agenda I can view?
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: ok a user was asking a question but couldn't stay for long
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: [12:04] Nexii Malthus: Oh Simon/Andrew, could we get articles on the SL community blogs that highlight all the new LSL functions? It would be great if they had publicity
[12:22] Simon Linden: We dont have a technical solution to that problem here ... we're focused on the SL server, but due to the way SL is built, it's really hard to technically stop some copying
[12:22] Talarus Luan: Yep, that would be cool to have LSL/server updates in a convenient form.
[12:22] Andrew Linden: Kylee, you say you submitted reports. What kind of reports and to whom?
[12:23] Talarus Luan: As it is, I have to read all three RC wiki topics as well as the release notes to know what all has been released as well as what is about to be released/needs testing.
[12:24] Tiberious Neruda: (and my mesh queue's pooched too... I need to relog real fast here)
[12:24] Talarus Luan: and the release notes are just really short snippets.
[12:24] Andrew Linden: Nexii, I'll try to forward your suggestion about some blog articles about new LSL functions.
[12:24] Vincent Nacon: he's not here but I'll reply for him
[12:24] Mobius Ryba: ^^ will forward to his skype :p
[12:24] Qie Niangao: (more blog articles in general would be welcome, I think.)
[12:25] Talarus Luan: I guess one of us Residents could create a wiki article that served that function, but it would be nice if it was Linden-generated/supported.
[12:25] Rex Cronon: the best solution would be for the page to be updated more often: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_Functions
[12:25] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:25] Nalates Urriah: Are all the new LSL functions now supported by the viewer's editor?
[12:25] Andrew Linden: Not that I know of Nalates. Kelly do you know?
[12:26] Talarus Luan: All released functions work, because compilation is done server-side. However, the syntax-highlighting and hoverhelp may not until the viewer gets updated.
[12:26] Andrew Linden: I know that Falcon has complained about that and wanted to get rid of the viewer's editor config as a viewer-side file, and to supply it via a server-side web service or something.
[12:26] Kelly Linden: What Talarus says.
[12:26] Talarus Luan: Yes, I thought that was supposed to be done.
[12:26] Qie Niangao: *that* would be superb.
[12:26] Rex Cronon: most of the functions on that page have a status already:)
[12:27] Kelly Linden: That would be nice and I would like it, but it is not done.
[12:27] Jonathan Yap: I thought those functions had to be listen in the order they were created on the server?
[12:27] Jonathan Yap: *listed
[12:27] Kallista Destiny: I would hope thet the local config data would be kept in case there is an issue with the server.
[12:27] Oz Linden: The viewer changes for that would make a fine open source contribution....
[12:27] Andrew Linden: Ok, then I take it that everyone here supports that idea. I'll be sure to tell Falcon so he will be even more enthusiastic to get that done in his copius spare time.
[12:28] Techwolf Lupindo: Need a CAP name.
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: We would need a place to fetch the master list from
[12:28] Talarus Luan: Yus, it would be awesome
[12:28] Kelly Linden: I was talking with an open source dev at one point about what viewer changes would be needed, and would be happy to talk to anyone else about it.
[12:28] Vincent Nacon: copius spare time? madness!
[12:28] Jonathan Yap: Supply us with an up to date list and someone will make the viewer code change
[12:28] Techwolf Lupindo: Best that would be a CAP so that beta regines will supply the new LSL funtions.
[12:29] Rex Cronon: u can invite that linde to come here, kelly:)
[12:29] Andrew Linden: Hrm... maybe not even a cap, but just have a known URL where it can be found.
[12:29] Kallista Destiny: or at least point to the soruce for ame
[12:29] Kallista Destiny: same.
[12:29] Kelly Linden: Yes it would be a cap that could be queried for a version and for the complete list to avoid redownloading if the viewer already has the version.
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:30] Rex Cronon: wait. why make it a cpa, when u can make it a simple web page that can be read by anybody, without requiring a viewer?
[12:30] Simon Linden: Half over, viewer is 1.2GB and growing....
[12:30] Andrew Linden: And ideally the file would be generated by a script that reads form the server-side files that are used by the compilation libraries.
[12:30] Rex Cronon: why make it a cap*
[12:30] Techwolf Lupindo: Rex, beta grid and RC channles will have different functions aviable.
[12:31] Andrew Linden: Good point Techwolf.
[12:31] Rex Cronon: well. u can make a different one for each of them
[12:31] Rex Cronon: it won't be more than 100kb:)
[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: my viewer is using 1.4GB atm
[12:32] Techwolf Lupindo: So the first CAP request will return a URI that has a version number in the URI so a simple cache check can be done so a second query to down the data will not have to be done on every regine change.
[12:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Wow, texture error caused a crash: 2012-01-24T20:30:37Z llimage/llimage.cpp(173) : error
2012-01-24T20:30:37Z ERROR: LLImageBase::allocateData: LLImageBase::allocateData called with bad dimensions: 0x0x1
[12:32] Kelly Linden: sorry about that, viewer memleak got me
[12:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 0x0x1 - how the hell?
[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: yeah, weve seen a few of those as well
[12:32] Oz Linden: better to use a conditional http request
[12:33] Kallista Destiny: I'm using .6 GB
[12:33] Tiberious Neruda: got a physics question when there's time for it
[12:33] Tiberious Neruda: well, pair of 'em, honestly
[12:33] Kylee Foxdale: yes....I have sent abuse reports to LL and i have contacted the creator as well
[12:33] Talarus Luan: Holy memory leak! I am at 1.4GB.. gonna crash soon.
[12:33] Rex Cronon: it is a black an white image, that is why u have 0x0x1
[12:33] Simon Linden: Go for it, Tiberious
[12:33] Techwolf Lupindo: Oz, as far as I know, the http servers still not support cache. ie: IF-expires, time stamp, e-tag, etc.
[12:34] Talarus Luan: 3.2.6 is pants
[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Send the server a query saying "I have version N" and the server will respond with something like "You need to update to version X"
[12:34] Andrew Linden: Kylee, I believe you need to send a DMCA takedown request. Let me look for a link about it...
[12:34] Tiberious Neruda: 1) Prims with physics on now actually collide properly with other prims. However, meshes with a physics mesh now have the 'hover' effect. Why is this?
[12:34] Kylee Foxdale: ok ty
[12:34] Simon Linden: http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php
[12:35] Andrew Linden: Yup, that is the one.
[12:35] Talarus Luan: Just make sure you understand what it is, and get a lawyer if you don't. <.<
[12:35] Tiberious Neruda: the green is using prims to approximate the desired shape
[12:35] Techwolf Lupindo: And libcurl in the client does not support a local cache.
[12:35] Vincent Nacon: I've spoken to her about the DMCA stuff, she's not the creator
[12:35] Vincent Nacon: all taken care of
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: while blue is using the physics mesh supplied at upload
[12:36] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, yes the old style "prims" have their shape shrunk... well, most of those shapes.
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: ah
[12:36] Talarus Luan: Gonna have to relog.. viewer is filling memory.
[12:36] Tiberious Neruda: and meshes haven't had that happen yet?
[12:36] Kylee Foxdale: but dont i need to be the creator to file this kind of a report?
[12:36] Andrew Linden: Turns out that dynamic ([X] Physics) objects that have concave primitives (torus, cut shapes, etc) will also collide with a gap.
[12:36] Sera Lok: when mem bloat gonna be fixed again? ^^
[12:36] Rex Cronon: some people have chosen to "shame" those that copybot all over the interned(youtube, flickr, facebook...) ;)
[12:36] Vincent Nacon: thanks god I have 8GB of RAM
[12:37] Simon Linden: We're not sure, Sera -- I've been complaining as load as anyone about it
[12:37] Techwolf Lupindo: Although webkit does support a local cache, webkit can only fetch and display data, webkit does not retrun data to the caller.
[12:37] Tiberious Neruda: I see
[12:37] Rex Cronon: over the internet*
[12:37] Simon Linden: I assume it's not an easy problem
[12:37] Sera Lok: i do too Vincent... i still crash ^^
[12:37] Andrew Linden: As for the mesh objects... what you need to be be doing is specifying the exact physics shape to use, and to shrink it by 0.05 m from all sides.
[12:37] Liisa Runo: Since some time ago, i have noticed strange behavior that happen sometimes: After crossing a region border with vehicle, the vehicle get instantly returned after unsit, not waiting the 4hour autoreturn time. What is this?
[12:37] Vincent Nacon: I must be doing it right...
[12:37] Sera Lok: yes at least i know the Lindens have issues too... ;)
[12:38] Tiberious Neruda: 2) why is it you can't set attributes per prim in a link set?
[12:38] Simon Linden: Were there any premissions restrictions in the 2nd region, Liisa?
[12:38] Talarus Luan: Kyky, you *MUST* be the creator, or his/her legal representative (ie, lawyer) to issue a DMCA complaint.
[12:38] Kallista Destiny: Creator, or copyright holder.
[12:38] Andrew Linden: Hrm... Liisa, that sounds like a bug (assuming the parcel wasn't already full).
[12:38] Qie Niangao: Liisa, is the parcel by any chance no-entry?
[12:38] Liisa Runo: LL owned sandbox was the last place i noticed this, so no restrictions
[12:39] Liisa Runo: might be no entry
[12:39] Andrew Linden: Tiberious, what exact per-prim attributes are you asking about?
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda: things like Friction, Density and Bounciness
[12:40] Andrew Linden: There are some per-prim properties that can be set for linked sets.
[12:40] Vincent Nacon: like gravity and frictions?
[12:40] Vincent Nacon: oy...
[12:40] Tiberious Neruda: yeah
[12:40] Liisa Runo: but no-entry always been ignored on region cross. and LL boxes have no-entry so that followers cant escape the lil sign parcel
[12:40] Andrew Linden: Ah...
[12:40] Andrew Linden: The Havok physics engine does not support distinct friction coefficients on sub parts of rigid bodies by default.
[12:40] Liisa Runo: anyway, this fast return is somewhat new behavior. is there some logic in it? or is it a bug?
[12:40] Simon Linden: No entry is ignored for vehicles, but gets enforced now if you stand up from the vehicle
[12:41] Andrew Linden: It would probably be possible to add that behavior to the physics engine, however it would likely come at a noticable performance cost
[12:41] Tiberious Neruda: I mean, clearly some settings really woudn't be such a good idea, like gravity, but friction and density would be useful
[12:41] Simon Linden: There were changes made in that area a few months ago
[12:41] Vincent Nacon: lack of heritage
[12:41] Liisa Runo: how to prevent it from happening?
[12:41] Andrew Linden: since each contact event would require a lookup for the friction of the sub-part, and then be modified before the consequences of that contact were computed.
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda: ah
[12:42] Andrew Linden: So the short answer is that it would not be perfomant.
[12:42] Vincent Nacon: yeah, we need to get object heritage first thouh
[12:42] Vincent Nacon: though*
[12:42] Rex Cronon: what exactly is "object heritage"?
[12:42] Tiberious Neruda: at the moment, my workaround is a coalesced object, but... I don't think that would be such a good idea when my project here gets to end-users
[12:43] Vincent Nacon: wait... I might be using wrong word for it
[12:43] Andrew Linden: "object hierarchy" perhaps?
[12:44] Vincent Nacon: yup, sorry, brain fart
[12:44] Simon Linden: I almost made it to 1.5GB
[12:45] Sera Lok: -_- i get to about 1.3 then byebye
[12:45] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I haven't had a memory error yet, but I've also adjusted my memory settings like MaxHeapSize and such.
[12:45] Talarus Luan: You mean hierarchial linksets, Vince?
[12:45] Vincent Nacon: 1.7gb here
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: yes
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: that way we could do more with physic
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: even with joints
[12:46] Tiberious Neruda: yeah. I miss joints....
[12:46] Geenz Spad: would at least be able to trivially animate some objects
[12:46] Tiberious Neruda: how long has it been since those were broken?
[12:46] Vincent Nacon: but having those attributes is going to require those
[12:47] Kallista Destiny: Still at .6
[12:47] Vincent Nacon: they wasn't really broken
[12:47] Tiberious Neruda: they were disabled
[12:47] Andrew Linden: Joints were only broken for performance, and stability, and code complexity.
[12:47] Vincent Nacon: yeah, no one could understand how to use it... kept crashing sims with bad physic prim-sex
[12:47] Andrew Linden: And then they were buggy for take/rez/region-cross too.
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: and yes, I'm using that word very carefully
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: prim-sex :P
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: (prim in hollowed prim)
[12:48] Rex Cronon: haha
[12:49] Tiberious Neruda: but... it's been YEARS since then
[12:49] Liisa Runo mumbles: so unfair that we are only allowed to grow and roll joints in Mature sim but we must go to Adult sim to smoke it
[12:49] Sera Lok: :)
[12:49] Tiberious Neruda: were always told they'd come back when it was easier to handle...
[12:49] Vincent Nacon: yeah... Joint need better name
[12:49] Talarus Luan: Yes, hierarchial linksets would be really awesome.
[12:49] Vincent Nacon: I dislikes drug hippies
[12:49] Vincent Nacon whispers: :)
[12:49] Kallista Destiny: bong?
[12:50] Jonathan Yap: Articulated points
[12:50] Andrew Linden: Havok calls them "constraints"
[12:50] Talarus Luan: Been wishing for those for years.
[12:50] Vincent Nacon: yeah constraints is standardized enough for that name
[12:51] Techwolf Lupindo: I run a 64-bit build. I don't have mem problem, the client happy will chew up 10Gs of ram if need be. :-)
[12:51] Vincent Nacon: eh? when did 64bit viewer come into play?
[12:51] Jonathan Yap: Techwolf, your solution only postpones the inevitable
[12:51] Techwolf Lupindo: (lag)
[12:51] Talarus Luan: That's great, but I don't have 10G of ram for it to chew through. :P
[12:51] TankMaster Finesmith: boa!
[12:51] TankMaster Finesmith: :D
[12:52] Yuzuru Jewell: Where is 64bit viewer?
[12:52] Kallista Destiny: Articulation points, that which something move about
[12:52] TankMaster Finesmith: 64bit viewer is self compiled
[12:52] Jonathan Yap: Yuzuru, you have to make your own on linux
[12:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I haven't ran into system memory errors on shining-fixes yet. Only video memory ones.
[12:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: But I've been poking Runitai about those...
[12:53] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you Jonathan.. But I want use it on windows7..
[12:53] Tankmaster Finesmith: there is no 64bit windows viewer
[12:54] Jonathan Yap: Yuzuru, if it were that easy it would already have been done for WIndows
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: self compiled or not
[12:54] Vincent Nacon: ah well... what good does 64bit actually do for you anyway?
[12:54] Kallista Destiny: It's supposed to be hard, if it ere east everyone would do it.
[12:54] Tiberious Neruda: allows it to use more memory when it needs to?
[12:54] Geenz Spad: mostly just more memory access
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: I still can do that with 32bit
[12:55] Andrew Linden: Bao Linden, do you know how far toward the horizon a 64-bit windows SL viewer is ?
[12:55] Jonathan Yap: But if things were working right you would not have to need that additional memory range
[12:55] Geenz Spad: 32-bit processes can typically only access up to 4GB of RAM (assuming LAA)
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: more memory, more registers to access and store date
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: would be slightly faster
[12:55] Yuzuru Jewell: I understand I must compile it by myself..
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: but... I don't see other improvement it could other than videocard support
[12:55] Geenz Spad: not necessarily on the slightly faster part
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: but it owuld also open up adding more advanced optizations, like AVX
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: which doesn't even need 64bit
[12:55] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Video card support? o_O
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: just more VRAM and driver supoort
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: support*
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: ahh optization
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: hmm
[12:56] Geenz Spad: not quite Vincent :P
[12:56] Vincent Nacon: I know I know... but most of the "lag" are render engine issue
[12:56] Geenz Spad: you'd mostly just be able to access more than 4GB of system memory with the viewer by using a 64-bit version
[12:56] Tankmaster Finesmith: viewer is hard coded for 2GB vid ram max, but it has diffculty hadeling more than 512
[12:56] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Actually, one of the main problems is that the viewer is too single-threaded.
[12:57] Tankmaster Finesmith: so allowing it to access 6GB vid ram wouldnt help
[12:57] Vincent Nacon: but who does hit that limit on a 64bit system when running 32bit?
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've used 6.5GiB before. :P
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Not on SL, but total.
[12:57] Vincent Nacon: doing what?
[12:57] Kadah Coba: Running the viewer on 64bit version of widows drops the crash rate by half
[12:57] Geenz Spad: threading of certain bits of the viewer would likely be more beneficial than doing a pure 64-bit variant of the viewer honestly
[12:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Minecraft, SL, Chrome, other bits and pieces.
[12:57] Tankmaster Finesmith: what kadah said
[12:57] Geenz Spad: at least if you want to look at overall performance
[12:58] Simon Linden: Video editing can eat up memory pretty quickly
[12:58] Jane1 Bookmite: huggers,
[12:58] Visitor Detector: Returning visitor to your land: Kennylex Luckless
[12:58] Kallista Destiny: Hmmmmmm I'm currently running 22 threads
[12:58] Jane1 Bookmite: oops,
[12:58] Tankmaster Finesmith: using a 64bit vista or win7 OS alone helps a lot (at least with phoenix and firestorm, not sure about other viewers)
[12:58] Vincent Nacon: yup but I meant being realistically... doing that while on SL?
[12:58] Kadah Coba: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26299591/Stats/avg-os-crash-win.png
[12:59] Kallista Destiny: Welcome back Bao
[12:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Doing what while on SL? Playing Minecraft and such?
[12:59] Geenz Spad: I've done worse than video editing while on SL :P
[12:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: uh, by andrew :P
[12:59] Rex Cronon: sometimes when u try to record video the whole computer slwos down:(
[12:59] Geenz Spad: gotta love high-end ray tracers
[12:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: and wb
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: he's still here
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: [12:59] Andrew Linden left the region.
[12:59] Andrew Linden entered the region (6.68 m).
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: annnnd now it's time for him to go
[13:00] Andrew Linden: wow, I crashed
[13:00] Talarus Luan: BWAHAHA Andrew is Ruthed! :P
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[13:00] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Crashy user group today.
[13:00] Andrew Linden: That doesn't happen very often. Probably the memory bloat thing.
[13:00] Jonathan Yap: Again?
[13:00] Vincent Nacon: mem leak issue?
[13:00] Rex Cronon: wb
[13:00] Andrew Linden: Which I hear Bao is working on.
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh good!
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: thats one of our biggest crashers atm
[13:01] Rex Cronon: sometimes the data u get from sim can crash u
[13:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yuzu crashed too?
[13:01] Andrew Linden: Simon, I thought to back up the user group transcripts to about 12:52
[13:01] Vincent Nacon: quit crashing to make me look bad!
[13:01] Vincent Nacon: :P
[13:01] Talarus Luan: I now have that for posterity :P
[13:01] Kallista Destiny: lol
[13:01] Andrew Linden: If you could save the tail end of the transcripts and send them to me that would be great.
[13:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I'm on shining-fixes. Crashes are bound to happen. :p
[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: yes, I crushed..
[13:02] Simon Linden: ok, I can get them from now back to 12:50 so we have a touch of overlap
[13:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: im still at 1.4GB memory used
[13:02] Andrew Linden: great, gimme everything since 12:50.
[13:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 1.1GiB system RAM, 710MiB VRAM.
[13:02] Andrew Linden: Ok thanks for coming everyone.
[13:02] Vincent Nacon: I'm at 1.7GB
[13:03] Jonathan Yap: hmmm, one of my alts shows online and I logged out 45 minutes ago
[13:03] Kallista Destiny: 0.670
[13:03] Kallista Destiny: Using last nights Firestone Shining.
[13:03] Rex Cronon: tc andrew, simon, and everybody else. have a nice day everybody:)
[13:03] Qie Niangao: Thanks all. Have fun
[13:03] Vincent Nacon: Firestone?
[13:03] Jonathan Yap: Thank you everyone
[13:03] Geenz Spad: looks like koli crashed again
[13:04] Yuzuru Jewell: I'm at 7G.
[13:04] Talarus Luan: Does drap/drop work? :P
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: Firestorm....
[13:04] Nalates Urriah: Firestone, that is the round viewer with the hole in the middle
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: im on firestorm with FUI intergrated in
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: ok everyone... let's all crash at the same time to end the meeting
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: :P
[13:04] Tiberious Neruda: LOL
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: Sorry I kived on Firestone Ave for 20 years
[13:04] Andrew Linden: Crash Now!
[13:04] Geenz Spad: 8D
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: tc simon, kelly, andrew
[13:04] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for your time
[13:04] Tiberious Neruda: for me, a clogged mesh queue's just as good as a crash
[13:04] Vincent Nacon: where's the force crash button?
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: THank you for a most interestinbg meeting
[13:04] Talarus Luan: I pre-empted crash by relogging :P
[13:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Bao must be loving my crash reports: 2012-01-24T21:03:38Z llimage/llimage.cpp(244) : error
2012-01-24T21:03:38Z ERROR: LLImageBase::getData: Bad memory allocation for the image buffer!
Simulator_User_Group
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