Community Tools User Group/24-Mar-2011

Category:Community Tools User Group
13:00 	Kung Fu Marketer  	hey lord, welcome back!
  	  	and qie--hey there. welcome.
  	Suspiria  	Give it up, you're not in my league
  	Qie  	hi everybody. :)
  	Tomkin Euler  	well, maybe torroidal..
  	Marianne McCann  	waves at Qie
  	Venus Petrov  	awesomesauce
  	draconis.neurocam  	thinks its a circular room and corners are merely arbitrary
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, we ready to get the party started?
  	Venus Petrov  	hey Qie
13:01 	DogWomble Dollinger 	gets the streamers and balloons
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	good idea dog. :)
  	Mags Indigo  	does this mean the bitching will stop?
  	Marianne McCann  	digs for her old Phil Linden party hat
  	Mags Indigo  	I find that rather entertaining
  	Venus Petrov  	lol Mags
  	Suspiria  	If telling the truth is bitching I suppose so
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, first off. let me address the moderation discussion.
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	hi raymond
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	first, as i've said in previous weeks that we are still working closely with the moderators to find the right levels and clarify some broader rules of the road.
13:02 	  	for example, at first the mods were giving warnings for sharing your favorite places in SL--and I have since made it very clear that this is what we want--that it's not advertising.
  	Raymond Linden  	Hi All
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	so that has since stopped.
  	  	so, you're right in feeling that the mods have been too strict, in some aspects.
  	  	i agree and i've asked them to losen up a bit.
13:03 	Torben  	Hi Raymond
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	over the last week, you should have seen an improvement there.
  	Cummere Mayo  	nope
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	second, we absoltuely do not play favorites.
  	Suspiria  	THat's not true
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	cummere--send me examples and i'll look into them.
  	Suspiria  	I sent you examples and nothing happened
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, cummere and suspiria--hold for a sec--let me finish, k?
  	Suspiria  	k
13:04 	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, second, we do not play favorites. the mods don't know who you are and moderate based on our communty guidelines and what is reported in their "report inappropriate content queue"
  	  	if you're being warned, that means that other residents have reported your post. period.
13:05 	  	we don't look around searching for violations. we mainly only look at what's int eh queue and deal with spam (which raymodn will get to soon)
  	  	he's got some updates...
  	  	ok, third, the team here approves all bans prior to them being given.
  	  	we look at the evidence and make an assessment.
  	  	mods cannot ban anyone on their own. every.
  	  	ever
13:06 	  	there have been many cases that mods have contacted us and asked about bans/warnings and I've said--nope not warranted.
  	  	somtimes, it is.
  	  	usually has to do witht he actual content and how many resis have reported it as inappropriate.
  	Suspiria  	Great tag team moderation
13:07 	Kung Fu Marketer  	what has been happening--is that there's been a lot of bickering back and forth between two resis that disrupts the topic discussed.
  	Venus Petrov  	good to know mods cannot ban without review
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	thanks suspipria.
  	  	that stuff is just disruptive and cannot go on.
  	Youri Ashton  	hello all
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	hey youri
  	Torben  	hey Youri
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	that said, there were some threads that were in good fun and were questioned, but we let them go.
  	  	fun is good.
  	  	banter is good.
  	  	flaming other resi's (even ones you may not agree with or like) is bad
13:08 	  	ok, think i'm done.
  	Tomkin Euler  	scribbles down a new word, "resi"..
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, questions?
  	Venus Petrov  	yes
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	unelss anyone else on the linden team wants to chime in...that is
  	  	sure venus--go for it
  	  	wassup?
  	Venus Petrov  	for goodwill sake would it be possible to forgive all but harassment and spam violations from the first week?
  	  	it was a 'get used to it' week
  	  	and many got profanity violations, for example
13:09 	Kung Fu Marketer  	hey, that's a good idea. yes, we can do that.
  	Venus Petrov  	great ty
  	Lexie  	I like it
  	Suspiria  	Too late for that isn't it?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	i'll just let the mods know that they should disregard stuff from the first week.
  	Venus Petrov  	cool
  	Mags Indigo  	great
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	nope--we can make the decision right now and i just made it.
  	  	:)
  	Venus Petrov  	i assume if there is a date attached, they would know
  	Lexie  	㋡
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	that is a fair poitn and i agree.
  	  	yep.
13:10 	Venus Petrov  	ok and I know that you have been tweaking the bleeper
  	Mags Indigo  	rubs shoulders with Amanda - wonders if she has any influence on the land team
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, suspiria/cummere--unleash it.
  	  	come on.
  	Venus Petrov  	but it is still somewhat annoying lol
  	Lisa Fossett  	Wait, Amanda...perhaps disregard is the wrong word? You want that content moderated if it's offensive...but you don't want bans/etc as a result...correct?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	:)
  	Cummere Mayo  	okay i have four questions i want to post as a group is that okay?
  	Suspiria  	I won't say anything, I see your stance
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	well, we still have the record, but if it's up to a ban then the violations from first week wouldn't counte.
  	  	count
13:11 	  	it's a good idea.
  	Mags Indigo  	yes it is
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	sure cummere
  	Cummere Mayo  	This is to all the lindens here: Is it ever okay for a linden to threaten to give out rl name, city, and place of employment of a customer?
Is it ever clear for a linden/mod to send a warning then to follow up with another email address referencing that warning and stating that if you report a person again there will be consequences?
Is it ever okay for a linden/mod to use borderline or outright abusive language?
  	Mags Indigo  	shows some flexibility as people got used to the new system
  	Arawn Graalrd  	wonders if Tourettes might become an issue.
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, cummere. good questions.
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	well as long as a bit of commonsense applies :) as in if it is a genuine bannable offence etc.
13:12 	Kung Fu Marketer  	first, it is never ok for a linden to discuss exposing personal information.
  	Lexie  	never!
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	that is clearly against our policy and if this is happening, then i need to be alerted immediately!
  	  	your private info is private. period.
  	Venus Petrov  	or those in your employ, correct?
  	Arawn Graalrd  	If a mod gets abusive, they'd be users as much as any Linden, and reportable as such
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	if you feel a mod is abusive, then please also let me know.
  	  	amanda@lindenlab.com.
  	Suspiria  	Alerts don;t work if emails don't get returned
13:13 	Kung Fu Marketer  	they have standard langauge that they use, and i would be surprised to see abusive language in their communication with you.
  	  	but, i won't tolerate that from them--or from anyone.
  	  	any other lindens want to join in here?
  	tabibhob  	HI
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	thinks i'm IMing too much. :)
  	Torben  	hi tabib :)
  	Raymond Linden  	agred on all your points Amanda
  	Marianne McCann  	welcome to Second Life, tabibhob
  	Venus Petrov  	so this is an example where discussing the moderation is ok, yes?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	the bottom line is--you're right cummere.
  	Lisa Fossett  	Hi, Tabib...I have sent you a private message...look on your screen in the lower right.
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	well not wanting to cause an explosion, i'm sure with recent 'events' you guys will be taking that dsort of thign seriusly if ineed it is true?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	it's unacceptable.
  	tabibhob  	HI
13:14 	DogWomble Dollinger 	wrt privacy issues?
  	Lexie  	yes I agree as well and have heard some of you mention fear of getting in trouble because you have these kinds of questions. Please ask them. Its ok.
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	YES dog.
  	bob Iwashi  	greetings and salutations
  	Youri Ashton  	i rather have the experience that either mole, linden or mod, it doesnt matter if abusive, rude, etc, they simply dont get punished at all
  	Suspiria  	I know what happens when you ask questions
  	Cummere Mayo  	thats my experince as well youri
  	Youri Ashton  	how does that translate to now and the furture?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	you get answers, i assume.
13:15 	Youri Ashton  	sorry to say, it may sound not nice towards the lindens here, but a lot have the same question
  	Suspiria  	Nope I got punished
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	you're allowed to ask the mods questions--about moderation. you are not allowed to call them names or ause them tho.
  	  	ok, youri--you're seeing nothign being done?
  	  	when someone is out of line?
  	Suspiria  	Yep
  	bob Iwashi  	well, the one of you guys i had a aproblem with went last year anyways amanda
  	Youri Ashton  	amanda, it is not our language usage towards them, its them towards us ;)
  	Suspiria  	I sent examples, over 50
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	report the post.
  	Slatan Dryke  	greetings
13:16 	Kung Fu Marketer  	suspiria--i didn't see abuse there--i did read it.
  	  	sorry, i disagree.
  	Suspiria  	When I reported the posts I got a mod letter threatening a ban
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yes, that's their job.
  	Marianne McCann  	Hey Slatan
  	Cummere Mayo  	Ive seen three posts very polite on the forums in feedback where people said they didnt feel safe. those threads were pulled, the users warned for "harassment" and in one case a private im sent saying the poster was such a bitch
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	if you have violations, then you are in peril of a one week ban or more...
  	  	you can't call the poster a bitch
13:17 	Youri Ashton  	lindens, moles and mods are also humans, so they could always make a mistake just like any of us. however out of experience this is not taken into account and actually punished where normal users do get punished, or even banned
  	bob Iwashi  	please, can we have a flameless meeting? nice and boring would be nice
  	Mags Indigo  	IMs can of course be 'tweaked' for sympathy - I've seen that a thousand times
  	Suspiria  	The problem is the warnings aren't fairly handed out
  	Mags Indigo  	not saying anyone here would do that of course
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	hi everybody (im using a chat based viewer...so i have no idea wich avatar im wearing or if im in an inapropriate place. - sorry)
  	Cummere Mayo  	mags the screenshot is posted on slu
  	Youri Ashton  	it isnt flaming, its unfortunately the harsh truth
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yes, warnings are fairly handed out. again, it's all based on resi's reporting content.
  	Mags Indigo  	don't go there
  	  	why would I?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	if the content is not reported, then we don't see it.
  	Mags Indigo  	and by god I've seen tweaked screenshots too
  	  	:-)
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	there's so much content out there--hundreds and thousands of posts to indiividually go through--impossibe.
13:18 	Mags Indigo  	esp when it comes to financial dealings
  	Suspiria  	So someone making a personal attack, naming you isn't against the CPG?
  	bee Baroque  	hi tiamat, you look fine, with hooves and horns :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	amanda then may i ask why threads where the user's said they just didn't feel safe are getting warned? thats kinda proving thier point isnt it?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yes it is. you cant call someoen a bitch in the paltform, period.
  	Venus Petrov  	not if they are responding directly to a post of yours
  	  	using your name
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	there's a normal adjustment period. we had very little moderation going on in jive.
13:19 	Suspiria  	But they can make fun of my Russian heritage and to you it isn't worthy of a warning
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	a lot more moderation now. so, everyone's getting used to it.
  	  	ok, susupira. that flag.
  	  	let's take that offline. k?
  	  	don't need to discus in large group
  	Suspiria  	grrr
  	Cummere Mayo  	happens to the irish too
  	  	and to christians
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	and, btw--i'm russian too.
  	Mags Indigo  	grins - don't I know it
  	Cummere Mayo  	and conservatives
13:20 	Mags Indigo  	water off a ducks back as it were
  	Cummere Mayo  	those four groups its open season
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, do most folks feel that i've answered their questions re: moderation?
  	Suspiria  	Yep with no repercussions
  	Cummere Mayo  	no amanda
  	Youri Ashton  	doesnt matter where you are from amanda, your still our sweet amanda ;)
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	:) awwwe.
  	Venus Petrov  	ok about the language bleeper, you are tweaking it...but can it recognize terms used in a junior biology text as alright to print?
  	Mags Indigo  	to be honest I've seen most groups get a teasing that might have stepped a bit too far from time to time
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	blushes
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	:)
  	Youri Ashton  	pets amanda ^_^
13:21 	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, think that raymond can talk to language stuff.
  	Marianne McCann  	I know that feeling, Mags
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	do i need to get the flame suit ready amanda?
  	bee Baroque  	peewee \o :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	i want to know why its okay for mods to rip down threads where people politely said in the forum feedback they dont feel safe becuase of the mods?
  	Mags Indigo  	some people are a bit more sensitive than others and I also find it can depend on who makes the remarks
  	Youri Ashton  	hey peewee, its about time you showed up :p hehe
  	Mags Indigo  	if there's 'history' it can seem worse
  	Marianne McCann  	blows a raspberry.
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	cummere--you can't flame mods--part of our community platform guidelines.
  	Peewee Musytari  	yay hey hey Bee :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	thats not flaming the mods
  	Suspiria  	It's not about sensitivity, it's about repeated violation nothing is done about
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, raymond--go for it re: language blacklist.
  	Peewee Musytari  	hi all sorry I`m late
  	Cummere Mayo  	thats providing feedback
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	np peewee. welcome.
  	Youri Ashton  	sithdown hon :)
  	Raymond Linden  	Yeah, we can tweak the language smut filter.
13:22 	Venus Petrov  	so terms like nipple and penis are ok?
  	Lord of Dee  	The language filter is alarming
  	Mags Indigo  	violation can be in the eyes of the person seeing it
  	Lexie  	It is using a standard "list" but we can review it
  	Venus Petrov  	dyke?
  	Mags Indigo  	1 person can see violation - 100 others see nothing wrong
  	Lord of Dee  	Dick Van Dyke is a nightmare
  	Suspiria  	@Mags there is no standardization
  	Venus Petrov  	laughs
  	Mags Indigo  	you talking to me Venus??
  	Venus Petrov  	poor him
  	  	no
  	  	hehe
13:23 	Mags Indigo  	:p
  	Jetpack Backpack  	Please type 'X help' for more help with commands
  	Raymond Linden  	yes, if there are words in question, please let me know. PM me
  	Tomkin Euler  	tries to visualise a typical use case where those words would be useful..
  	Venus Petrov  	of course, when one wishes to discuss adult items that are sold in SL
  	Mags Indigo  	and to be honest it's also about normal language
  	  	I'm assuming everyone with access to the forum is 16+
  	Venus Petrov  	they should be
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	and there are cases where we had banned words that aren't banned.
  	Marianne McCann  	Blacklists of language are always a nightmare. I recall that from working on AOl more years ago than I care to admit
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	example is damn.
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	well one would hope so mags :)
13:24 	Kung Fu Marketer  	not really a bad word. that's off hte list now, right raymond?
  	Mags Indigo  	'protecting' them from words such as lesbian, dyke and some other common usage words seems a bit... unreal
  	Marianne McCann  	(When higher ups got the idea that "breat" was a good word to blacklist)
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	and that was based on resi feedback.
  	Marianne McCann  	"breast*"
  	Venus Petrov  	in that spirit, i would once again like to request a Mature subforum where things like sexual orientation can be discusssed, adult consumer items sold in SL..etc
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	i'll second that venus
  	Cummere Mayo  	i wouldnt even mind breast if breasted wasnt also cut
  	Mags Indigo  	lots of 16-18 years olds are gay
13:25 	  	bless them
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	venus, there's a private forum for adult merchants/business ownes.
  	Tomkin Euler  	I hought there was one.. adult..
  	Marianne McCann  	Cummere - I'm sure the Relay For Life folks would have a bit to say about it
  	Venus Petrov  	but not for residents
  	Lord of Dee  	It's like something out the 1950's this language filter, where did you get it from?
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	keeping it "PG" in a way is sensible in the sense that it's "web viewable", but at the same time is a bit restrictive when it comes to certain topics
  	Cummere Mayo  	and it was ammusing last week that my user name was on the blacklist
  	Venus Petrov  	i am asking for one for residents please
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	i like the idea of an LBGT community form, but it's tough....
  	Suspiria  	Everyday language isn't G
  	Mags Indigo  	yeah - trying to find it though is a nightmare
  	Marianne McCann  	I'm sure that oMosely Sperber will bring up the sculpted birds he sells, too
  	Mags Indigo  	Walt Disney?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	let us pow-wow on that one k, venus?
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	hahaha marianne
  	Mags Indigo  	bites her tongue
  	Cummere Mayo  	everyday language is moderate
  	Suspiria  	I see
  	Venus Petrov  	sure
13:26 	DogWomble Dollinger 	i've seen tha sign ... "these birds are not adult content"
  	Marianne McCann  	It's just... a minefield, blacklists
  	Lord of Dee  	Ha didn't think to see if we could talk about Moseley's products
  	Suspiria  	Now I get it
  	Venus Petrov  	if we can buy the stuff in SL, we should be able to discuss it
  	Marianne McCann  	Ya, DogWomble. He had his marketplace stuff labeled adult recently, too
  	Venus Petrov  	and the gay community lives here, too
  	Marianne McCann  	But it's also a good example
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	whispers: hmmmm, bit of a literal usage then?
  	Suspiria  	Silenced
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	it's a great idea--but let us pow-wow on it our side, k?
  	Cummere Mayo  	dyke maybe shouldnt be allowed but gay, lesbian, bisexual?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	let's pick it up next week when we on the linden side can discuss.
13:27 	Venus Petrov  	ok good ty
  	Mags Indigo  	why not dyke?
  	Cummere Mayo  	that some places is still an insult
  	Mags Indigo  	<-- old dyke and proud to be thank you
  	Lord of Dee  	So the little boy who put his finger in a dyke is no longer general? This is silly
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	:)
  	Mags Indigo  	only if you allow it to be
  	Arawn Graalrd  	Communty Standareds inword won't allow us to search for the inventor of Ivory Soap
  	Cummere Mayo  	mags some lesbians really do hate the word. others lvoe it... but eh
  	Marianne McCann  	Dyke" is sometimes used as a reclaimed term within their community e.g. the "Dyke March"
  	Youri Ashton  	lol, okay, i must have missed something, why we talking about dykes now?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, moving along the agenda. :)
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	:)
13:28 	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, next is clarification re: third-party sites.
  	Mags Indigo  	we're just lucky I guess Dog
  	Lexie  	(good feedback on that, ty)
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	well i can kidna see one problem .... there's about a billion words that could cause this sorta debate
  	Mags Indigo  	ack sorry Youri
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	often it's associted with advertising--that's the thinking behind it.
  	Mags Indigo  	too many names for slow eyes
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	but, raymodn and lexie should chime in too
  	Venus Petrov  	have there been any numbers run on forum usage since the rollout compared to the former GD?
  	Youri Ashton  	lol, np mags :)
  	Lord of Dee  	There are some clearly obvious adult words, that's where the filters should stop.
  	Second Life  	Items successfully shared.
13:29 	Lexie  	Venus, we will know more after a full month
  	Mags Indigo  	I think there's a few too many sub forums
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, answered that one.
  	Mags Indigo  	it makes the whole thing too disjointed
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, premium members consiage type support panel.
  	Mags Indigo  	everyone in their own little world
  	Venus Petrov  	ok will they be published? or shared here or somewhere?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	that's a good idea...interesting.
  	  	not sure if it's do-able.
  	Cummere Mayo  	why not?
  	Lexie  	Venus, Not sure actually! I will find out
  	Venus Petrov  	thank you
13:30 	Kung Fu Marketer  	raymond, don't premium members still have live chat in the support portal? not sure...
  	bob Iwashi  	yes we do
  	Cummere Mayo  	we do ... but its burried
  	Raymond Linden  	yes
  	bob Iwashi  	but we get stuck withthe couts
  	  	scouts*
  	Cummere Mayo  	and support thinks our page looks like consierge
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	amanda i've use live chat , but it's not easy to find
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	:)
  	Mags Indigo  	yes I was on it today
  	Lisa Fossett  	Support links are much harder to find now
  	bob Iwashi  	who are only marginally better than the ontynes were
  	Cummere Mayo  	and so do allot of lindens
  	Mags Indigo  	they said 'no'
  	  	sigh
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yeah, that's an issue. we need to redo that page.
  	Mags Indigo  	feels aggrieved
  	bob Iwashi  	me too mags
  	Youri Ashton  	cummere, a lot of lindens are actually fired, there are not that many left ;)
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, so lexie is right--let's look into it and leave it on the agenda for next week. we should have a better understanding of what's do-able.
13:31 	Cummere Mayo  	and hoenstly paying for for primium memberships i expect top level access to live and tickets
  	bob Iwashi  	if i wanted to speak to a 3rd parry company i;d call them directly
  	  	isntead of them, reading me an obviously scripted answer
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	well, keep inmind that there are only 220 of us lindens.
  	bob Iwashi  	that's even less use than before
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	we're a pretty small company and there are hundreds of thousands of you.
  	  	:)
13:32 	Venus Petrov  	that is not a complaint, i take it..smiles
  	Youri Ashton  	i rather see that you get more L$ for your RL money
  	Cummere Mayo  	i meant allot of lindens think that the premium level support page has live and tickets on the top level page ><
  	bob Iwashi  	a prety small company that does NOT lsiten to it;s customers amanda
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	WOW.. just 220 Lindens? ehhe
  	Cummere Mayo  	to clarify
  	draconis.neurocam  	and around 18 or so short looking at the list you are hiring for
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yep, jsut 220
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	well i've dealt with two of them via live chat ... one was excellent and got it right, i knda wish i had the lgos from the other one because they'd asked me to AR a ghost prim
  	Qie  	Somebody needs to updated http://lindenlab.com/about ...."Headquartered in San Francisco, Linden Lab has more than 250 employees. "
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	i agree with Bob
  	Suspiria  	It disciplines them fast enough
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yes, actually, qie. i've rewritten that site and it's being built now.
  	Lexie  	We are here listening now bob ㋡
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	hoping to get a new LL.com up soon.
  	bob Iwashi  	how the heck can it take 45 minutes to reqwuest a mainland region restart for free a ghost?
  	Youri Ashton  	i pay 50 euro for just (about) 14000L$, which is basically not going to happen since i only have 40 euro a week, and im sure a lot more have that problem
  	Peewee Musytari  	talking of the help page...is it possible to add a category to the popular help isssues for non-english speakers, directing them to the non-english fourms as there is no non-english help pages around...at least for some basic issues they could get peer to peer support?
  	Qie  	Thanks Amanda.
13:33 	bob Iwashi  	when it was lidnen support, 5 minutes!
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	peewee--briliant idea.
  	  	yes--i'll take that action item.
  	bob Iwashi  	now you have to explain 5 ruddy times to the scouts how to use a pc let alone your problem"
  	Youri Ashton  	basically makes it impossible for those that are not rich at all
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	yeah..that would be great
  	Raymond Linden  	Peewee - yes, something we are aware of
  	Rand  	peewee - there are *some* non-English Knowledge Base articles
  	Cummere Mayo  	Rand... some of them are even accurate
13:34 	bob Iwashi  	sorry, but that's bad customer service
  	Cummere Mayo  	and yeah
  	Qie  	(btw, Peewee, after this meeting, the Community Translation user group is scheduled to meet for the first time, in case it would be of interest.)
  	Peewee Musytari  	someone posted the vast drop in usage on the non -english forums and questions...we seem to have lost the germans I noticed....and they suggested maybe they can`t them
  	Rand  	Hopefully, more with help of the community translation project
  	Cummere Mayo  	yesterday i had to explain that a region being down is not a viewer issue to a scout
  	Youri Ashton  	hey tech
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	yes... i miss the TC work.. :)
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	Hi all
13:35 	Mags Indigo  	waves at Tech
  	Cummere Mayo  	can we please sometime have even a two time usergroup to talk about issues with scouts doing support?
  	Youri Ashton  	the first community translator OH is right after this OH
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	ok, the last item on the formal agenda is usage numbers....
  	Youri Ashton  	well, for those within the group :p
  	Mags Indigo  	down I would imagine
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	raymond, anything you care to share?
  	Mags Indigo  	though maybe it justseems that way due to the lack of bitchfests and flame wars
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	lexie?
  	Mags Indigo  	and I guess spam doesn't count
  	Youri Ashton  	2bad lexie isn't with us this year :(
13:36 	Raymond Linden  	In terms of usage or general updates?
  	Venus Petrov  	well and content...real discussions have dropped
  	Peewee Musytari  	usage seems way down for answers section
  	Lexie  	We will have a better idea on usage numbers after a solid month
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	mags i'd be interested to see them, although given what seem to be a fair share of dramas, i'd take them with a grain of salt until things are worked out
  	Venus Petrov  	hummm wonders if that is too late lol
  	Suspiria  	Ossian has usage numbers
  	Raymond Linden  	Yeah, in a week or two we will have a good set of data
  	Cummere Mayo  	well when you get warned for linking someone to an outside site with a howto guide people dont want to answer
  	bob Iwashi  	amanda, may i make a suggestion/request?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	sure bob
13:37 	Peewee Musytari  	and a lot more posting a question and never coming back...I don`t know if they can`t find their question, or how to repost on it maybe.....are emails of answers off by default now?
  	Lexie  	Yes Peewee
  	Cummere Mayo  	they are peewee
  	Lisa Fossett  	yes, emails are off by default
  	bob Iwashi  	please, and i appreciate it may not be you or your colelagues here, but could you ask whomever it is, that deals with support, to maybew consider an OH or two to address some of our concernes ref the support, or perceived lack of it?
  	Cummere Mayo  	which is stupid
13:38 	Youri Ashton  	no tech, thats fake Jon Linden, its placed by Jeremy because we all missed the guy around some time ago :p
  	Lord of Dee  	Emails should be off by default. Explaining how to put those options on should be clearly stated though.
  	Raymond Linden  	We are lookng into making the email box checked by default when posting
  	Cummere Mayo  	ty raymond
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	raymond/rand, do you want to take bob's suggestion?
  	Lord of Dee  	Emails on by defaulty is an awful practice
  	Mags Indigo  	agrees with ciaran
13:39 	Kung Fu Marketer  	we don't have a user group for support. but, i can say that we've worked through almost all of the backlog and the resposne times should be getting much better.
  	Venus Petrov  	same
  	draconis.neurocam  	in that vein there really should be a search usergroup as well
  	Peewee Musytari  	its a good thing for someone posting a question..at least we know they got their answer
  	bob Iwashi  	it's not amanda, believe me
  	  	it's getting worse
  	Lexie  	agreed Peewee
  	Qie  	On the topic of usage numbers: I wonder if it's a conscious decision not to link blog posts to discussions in the forums, as there were before. If Rodvik has a good blog post here soon, a link to a forums discussion could boost participation, and maybe some folks would stick around. (I don't really see the point of linking "View Article Reactions" to technorati, effectively demonstrating that nobody in the industry is talking about the SL blog)
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	kk, it's one of rod's top priorities. :)
  	bob Iwashi  	we (the long time users) are havign to explain to the scouts etc how stuff works
  	Raymond Linden  	bob - I can bring this up with Support
  	Lisa Fossett  	butts in her experence...her one hanging ticket has not had an update for almost a month now.
  	Cummere Mayo  	response times are horrible... better but horrible... the responses themselves... are a joke
  	Peewee Musytari  	we have posts and then lots of suggestions and we have no idea whats going on & they don`t get marked as answered
13:40 	Cummere Mayo  	actual conversation ive had more then once
  	bob Iwashi  	it's just not acceptable to be patronised by somebody when i've already done the ruddy groundwork for them
  	Lord of Dee  	They should make that choice, defaults like email messages should always be opt in
  	Cummere Mayo  	can you please restart this mainland region? "regions can only be restarted by thier owner"
  	  	headdesks
  	Marianne McCann  	Ugh.... been there, done that Cummere
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	i've had the same thing cummere
13:41 	  	particularly annoying after i spent 20 minutes explaining to them what a ghost prim was
  	bob Iwashi  	i was ghsoted 2 weeks ago, tried the usual suggestions, so i went to live chat on my prem acc, explained FOUR times the issue, i'd alrweady delted my cache manually, took 45 minutes to get a restart! and 3 different scouts had no clue whatsoever!
  	Marianne McCann  	"Well, the owner is Linden Lab, so I'm taking tothe estate owner right now"
  	Mags Indigo  	guys - this isn't the 'support meeting'
  	Marianne McCann  	Sorry....
  	Lisa Fossett  	Regards the email...I think the decision should be based on the new user. Those of us who know how to navigate the forums can turn off emails. Yeah, it might be an extra step, but think of the newbie who doesn't know how to find his topic again.
  	Mags Indigo  	much though I wish it were
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	yeah guys--we can't really address support issues her.
  	  	e
  	Lexie  	+1 Lisa
  	bob Iwashi  	i agree Mags, but all we'd like is trhe relevant Linden to actually lsiten to us isntead of half answers
  	Raymond Linden  	Hey all - if we can focus back on the community site. I have some updates
  	Lexie  	Updates!
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	woot
  	Youri Ashton  	we can, wouldnt be usefull since there wont be answers :p
13:42 	Cummere Mayo  	exactly lisa
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	i like updates!
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	go for it raymond
  	Marianne McCann  	Updates +1
  	Raymond Linden  	ok, where to start!
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	updates? :D weeee
  	Lord of Dee  	Plain issue here, email on by default is bad practice, there were loads of complaints about this when we had Jive.
  	Arawn Graalrd  	makes note: Support is unspeakable. I'm glad I never bother them
  	Peewee Musytari  	yay raymond...did you get rid of "comments"? hehe
  	Raymond Linden  	So, we are currently working on getting the Reply to post work completed
  	Torben  	yay for that
13:43 	Raymond Linden  	It is currently in development, so I am hoping it will be completed by next meeting
  	  	Spam . .. .
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	munches on the spam
  	Lisa Fossett  	cure for the nuisance email: put the instructions on how to turn it off in the email signature.
  	Raymond Linden  	So, we made quite a bit of adjustments on the back end and stopped quite a bit of it. But, there is still spam getting through.
13:44 	  	We are aware and working through it
  	Lexie  	We will beat the spam!
  	  	㋡
  	Lisa Fossett  	yay!
  	Marianne McCann  	That seats taken, davidsp
  	Raymond Linden  	Image spam is now an issue
  	Mags Indigo  	yes - wasted does his best - it's almost admirable how dedicated he is
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	beats the spam with a stick
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	go dog
  	Lord of Dee  	Just put how to turn replies on via email in the forum.
  	mudbug Cooperstone  	only good spam comes in a can lol
  	Youri Ashton  	serves lexie a plate with spam. enjoy your dinner ma'am ;) hehe
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	hehehe
  	Marianne McCann  	Mags - I sorta like him. It's nonsensical, but still...
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	and even that is questionable.
  	Lexie  	haha Youri
  	Raymond Linden  	We have added/modified some of the sub-forums
  	Youri Ashton  	^_~
13:45 	Raymond Linden  	Also, working on the logon issue - the one where when you logon you are taken to the top level Blog page
  	Mags Indigo  	nods at Marianne - but sometimes he can be downright nasty and abusive - MPD maybe
  	Venus Petrov  	wrt subforums, will there be a review say in six months to see what are active ones and the less or non-active ones subsumed into others?
  	Raymond Linden  	That work is being scoped at the moment
  	Marianne McCann  	Agreed, Mags. I saw what he did on SC MkII
  	Raymond Linden  	I am also working on a list of UI updates as well
13:46 	Techwolf Lupindo  	One comment i've seen posted/spoken somewhere: The general topic is gone from the forums, discussions has drop a bit due to all the new splinter groups.
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	oh?
  	Marianne McCann  	Oh ya. Will be nice to not always be hitting the blog page every hour or so
  	Raymond Linden  	Venus - sure, we can review
  	Lexie  	Makes sense
  	Venus Petrov  	thank you
13:47 	  	i can see a day when you have to scroll pages of subforums
  	  	who wants that?
  	Raymond Linden  	That is really all I have right now in terms of updates.
  	Youri Ashton  	its not just the forums techwolf, its office hours as well, a lot of oh's dissapeared and most of the ones that are there are hard to find out where, how, etc
  	Venus Petrov  	I would be happy if Mature could be in OffTopic, actually
13:48 	Peewee Musytari  	was there any progress on getting new posts to bump threads?
  	Cummere Mayo  	I dont mind lots of subforums as long as they are collected into a rather small set of main forums so that its at most 3 clicks to get where I want
  	Raymond Linden  	Peewee - not sure I understand?
  	bob Iwashi  	well, tiem to run, rl calls
  	Youri Ashton  	LL should invest in a good page that activly shows what is where, how late etc and actually pin it to the MAIN PAGE of sl wiki, instead of all hidden
  	Peewee Musytari  	so that new posts bump the thread back to top of topic list
  	bob Iwashi  	in my own rl job of providing support to people.............
13:49 	Cummere Mayo  	Raymond, standard for most forums is that threads with new posts are listed first....
  	  	that isnt happening
  	Youri Ashton  	and then of course the mess it shows up in, its really not handy to read at all
  	Lexie  	You want sorted by latest post right?
  	Cummere Mayo  	yes
13:50 	Raymond Linden  	Is that the issue where Oh - the other thing brought up in the last meeting . . .
  	Cummere Mayo  	yeps
  	  	its still sorting by creation
  	Raymond Linden  	was regarding the Latest Post showing in the widget was not the most recent post
  	Liisa Runo  	yes, everyone want that, every other forum always been working like that
  	Rand  	Youri: the User Groups page https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups is linked from wiki Main Page
  	Youri Ashton  	i broughed it up earlier yeah
  	Rand  	Do you find that hard to use?
  	Raymond Linden  	We are working on fixing that
13:51 	Peewee Musytari  	questions stay forever in the order they are posted, so you get new posts on page 5 of the topic list when something isn`t solved fast enough and the only option is to keep getting everything sent to email or searching old pages for new stuff
  	Lexie  	We know its a hot topic for you
  	draconis.neurocam  	theres usergroups that exist that still are not listed there, ie kelly's
  	Rand  	draconis - thx for letting me know... .I will fix that
13:52 	  	UG leaders are *supposed* to update that page!
  	Cummere Mayo  	allot fo them need updated with the new po too
  	Raymond Linden  	These are all great ideas/suggestions. Some of the issues we can fix with some quick tweaks. Others are core platform changes which are much harder to update
  	Cummere Mayo  	since like q and a few others left
  	Youri Ashton  	rand: the page is indeed there, known to many, but it is more hidden away then you think. and besides that, its a mess to find out about things. I suggest making it in a calendar type page, so people can actually see what hour and what day holds what OH. instead of the current mess
  	Marianne McCann  	Needta run, have fun, all!
  	Rand  	Youri: the Google Calendar does that...
13:53 	Torben  	bye bye Marianne
  	Lord of Dee  	Bye mari
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	bye marianne
  	Rand  	It is embedded in the page...
  	Marianne McCann  	Bye Bye!!
  	Mags Indigo  	tc Mari
  	Youri Ashton  	besides that, the oh hud is pretty upset as well due to the odd behavior of the sl wiki page
  	draconis.neurocam  	in regards to the google calendar, you have to sign in to google to see all of the events
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	havent checked sl wiki lately
  	Rand  	And you can sort the table by any column you wish
  	draconis.neurocam  	some are not listed there if you are not
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	rand: if i get a chance i'll see if i can get something calendarish wrking as well
  	Rand  	draconis - i did not know that...i thik we should be able to address that... (?)
13:54 	  	DogWomble - thx
  	Cummere Mayo  	one thing that would help
  	Rand  	I am totally open to improving the usability of that page!
  	Youri Ashton  	rand: I think you dont understand what i try to tell. I think you should download and try out Monzilla Sunbird. this shows a bit of what i mean. using that idea you can make it a lot easier to read :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	get the usergroups to have consistant formatting across the entries
13:55 	  	it would help with sorting issues and stuff
  	Rand  	Youri: lets talk about it offline
  	Youri Ashton  	kk rand
  	Cummere Mayo  	and as said before you have some still listed as being owned by people no longer at LL
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	right.
  	  	like q. good point.
  	Rand  	ok we will address that... easy enough
  	  	who is handling Q's UG now?
13:56 	Cummere Mayo  	oz
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	oz
  	Youri Ashton  	and for that matter, that setup idea hs a lot more great assets that can be used. so, sure needs to get talked over :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	one is merov
  	  	well one of them is oz
  	Youri Ashton  	Oz and Merov basically taking over such hours
  	Cummere Mayo  	ughh hurray for out of order posting
  	Torben  	it´s the same with JIRA projects by the way
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	i gotta go... ill miss CT meeting too.. if anybody could save the log (of CT meeting) i would love to have it...
  	Rand  	Ok i fixed that just now :-)
  	Cummere Mayo  	ty rand
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	thanks for everything and bye =)
  	Rand  	yw
13:57 	Mags Indigo  	CT?
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	bye all.
  	Rand  	bye
  	Torben  	Tiamat, I´ll post a transcript of CT
  	Lexie  	Bye for now and thanks!!
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	rand, you get the transcript?
  	Rand  	yes amanda, i got it
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	ty torben
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	fab.
  	Suspiria  	New blog post on the way
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	thanks all. another great session.
  	Tiamat Bingyi  	bye bye
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	suspiria--i'll look forward to it.
  	DogWomble Dollinger 	not a problem amanda :)
  	Torben  	bye all
  	Cummere Mayo  	ild like to say that aside from the support page for premiums, and a few bugs, the tech side of things is pretty good imo
  	Venus Petrov  	thanks Amanda, Lexie, Jeremy etc
  	Mags Indigo  	thanks various Lindens
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	thanks cummere. good to hear.
  	Cummere Mayo  	but with the mod mess, youre not gonna see me use it
  	Youri Ashton  	oh yeah rand, together with that suggestion for the agenda, it might be good to have a new OH hud that actually reads updates as well
  	Torben  	so, where is localization central again=
  	Kung Fu Marketer  	thanks all--we really appreciate yout aking the time to share thoughts.
13:58 	  	lots of great ideas...
  	Venus Petrov  	knows who was working on her blog during the meeting lol
  	Rand  	Thanks all... cya next week
  	Youri Ashton  	think we better talk another time about that, may take a lot of time
  	Raymond Linden  	Later!