Open Source Meeting/2009-06-04

* [14:02] Philip Linden: hi there
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Rob
* [14:02] Melinda Latynina: heyhey
* [14:02] Flimsey Freenote: Hi all
* [14:02] Bluezy Bleac: Hello everybody
* [14:02] Rob Linden: hi folks
* [14:03] Rob Linden: well, I forgot to clear the agenda off last week, and no one has added anything new
* [14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Was the testing session a success?
* [14:04] Merov Linden: thinks it was
* [14:04] zuip Arkright: Nano, we are just over here on the other side of the little river to celebrate Maike Shorts farewell.
* [14:04] Rob Linden: Morgaine: it was a good first run. we've definitely got some kinks to work out of the process
* [14:04] Morgaine Dinova: Super, Rob :-)
* [14:05] zuip Arkright: Maike Short released her work into the public domain. She was banned from Second Life are warning about a serve security issue ignored by Linden Lab. After the ban Linden Lab continued to sell her work for their own profit: 
* [14:05] Flimsey Freenote: waves at Annie
* [14:05] Rob Linden: we could definitely use some help with test plan organization
* [14:05] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hmm..spacenav can't control the camera in non-flycam mode. On rc3, it can position the camera when sitting.
* [14:05] Rob Linden: also, just getting the test plans in better shape
* [14:05] Rob Linden: everyone still playing around with Snowglobe?
* [14:05] Digit Ditko: yep
* [14:06] Merov Linden: using it right now :)
* [14:06] ATechwolf Foxclaw: this is snowglobe here...
* [14:06] Philip Linden: good!
* [14:06] Rob Linden: is too
* [14:06] Techwolf Lupindo: ..and 1.23.3 here.
* [14:07] Philip Linden: Has anyone here has a big problem with snowglobe that has a good repro and should stop us putting in into broader release?
* [14:07] Twisted Laws: 1.23.2 (2346)
* [14:08] Philip Linden: (That seems like the right wording for us to consider)
* [14:08] Thickbrick Sleaford: there's the baking issue, that may or may not be same as in the 1.23 RCs
* [14:08] Thickbrick Sleaford: *issues
* [14:08] Philip Linden: OK
* [14:08] Philip Linden: What else?
* [14:08] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: you're talking about https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-8 , right?
* [14:08] Twisted Laws: No major issues for me altho I've had some short lockups (not consistent) after teleporting.
* [14:08] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes
* [14:09] Rob Linden: agrees we should get to the bottom of that one
* [14:09] Merov Linden: we still see the occasional llcurl crasher in the crash reports
* [14:09] Merov Linden: but less crashes overall than say 3 weeks ago
* [14:10] Rob Linden: yeah...unfortunately, no repro that I'm aware of on the curl stuff
* [14:10] Youri Ashton: hello all
* [14:10] Philip Linden: Rob - do you know the latest stats on number of agents using snowglobe?
* [14:10] Rob Linden: looks
* [14:10] Youri Ashton: sorry, im in IM a little with Dusty Linden still about the 6th birthday party for SL
* [14:11] Rob Linden: our stats system seems to be falling further and further behind
* [14:11] Techwolf Lupindo: I just did a flycam around here. I though I had an issue, but it affects both viewers. Philip legs are disapearing into the seat at times.
* [14:11] Rob Linden: our latest usage data is from 5/31 (still)
* [14:11] Aimee Trescothick: that's normal tech
* [14:11] Aimee Trescothick: still happen if you turn off imposters?
* [14:11] Stickman Ingmann: Techwolf, I think that's imposters.
* [14:11] Techwolf Lupindo: I have imposters turned off here...let me double check.
* [14:12] Rob Linden: ~30 agents on 5/31, with ~60+ hours of usage that day
* [14:12] Philip Linden: OK so it looks like for this group, the problem with baked textures is the only blocker.
* [14:12] Merov Linden: we have a PJIRA on this
* [14:12] Philip Linden: We are looking at that one.
* [14:12] Merov Linden: go fishing for the number
* [14:13] Rob Linden: here's the issues filed in SNOW: 
* [14:13] Rob Linden: we've got a few still in VWR, I've gotta pull them up separately....
* [14:13] Techwolf Lupindo: Oo..my snowglobe just crashed.
* [14:14] Merov Linden: rebaking = 
* [14:14] Rob Linden: VWR issues with "Snowglobe" in Affects Version: 
* [14:15] Merov Linden: I'm working on right now
* [14:15] Rob Linden: thanks everyone for their help on SNOW-8 repros (nee VWR-13757). looks like we've got a lot more info on that now
* [14:15] Melinda Latynina: does anyone else have trouble getting these chat links to work? Sometimes i need to click all around on one before it will open in my browser.
* [14:16] Philip Linden: right - that is cool merov.
* [14:16] Robin Cornelius: yes all the time Melinda
* [14:16] Melinda Latynina: known bug?
* [14:16] Stickman Ingmann: Melinda, usually I get a client lockup when I click a link and then two or three windows will open.
* [14:16] Aimee Trescothick: yep, it should be on there somewhere
* [14:17] Melinda Latynina: seems like most of my clicks are simply ignored. I just keep clicking around hunting for an active region or something.
* [14:17] Rob Linden: Melinda: it's worth filing if you can't find the already filed issue
* [14:18] Soft Linden: Odd, not able to repro it. Melinda, you're on Windows?
* [14:18] Techwolf Lupindo: backtrace of the crash I just had with snowglobe here. 
* [14:18] herina Bode: greetings all
* [14:18] Morgaine Dinova: What's even more annoying is when you scroll back in a window to find a link, try to click on it, and the window scrolls back to the bottom and click fails. Total miss-feature.
* [14:18] Philip Linden: OK... so we'll work on these couple critical issues, but overall we're very close.
* [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: I've seen it on Mac too Soft
* [14:18] Melinda Latynina: soft: yes, windows 7
* [14:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah, I find that annoying quite often, Morgaine.
* [14:18] Philip Linden: Should be able to put this up as a download within next week or so.
* [14:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: I've gotten into the habit of clicking the window first to "select" it and then scrolling up, but it really shouldn't happen that way.
* [14:18] Robin Cornelius: Techwolf that trace is the know openjpeg issue
* [14:18] Youri Ashton: I found a bug with the snowglobe aswell during testing, already logged that one. I did however find a new but yesterday or the day before, i unfortuantely did not have the time yet to place it on the JIRA
* [14:19] Techwolf Lupindo: Morgaine, I HATE THAT FEATURE. When ever reading the scrollback, it like to POP down. *grr...
* [14:19] Morgaine Dinova: Aye. Windows should stay where you put them.
* [14:19] Merov Linden: Tech: OpenJPEG crasher you had
* [14:19] Philip Linden: Hopefully it will be cool for all to see a viewer with a short iteration cycle get lots of usage.
* [14:19] Merov Linden: starts speaking like Yoda....
* [14:19] Morgaine Dinova: Well if everyone hates that feature, shouldn't we get rid of it?
* [14:19] Techwolf Lupindo: grins
* [14:19] Rob Linden: here's a few other issues we could use some help on repros for:
* [14:19] Melinda Latynina: making the scrolling lock when u expect it to and not when u don't is a *very* tricky bit of code that often breaks.
* [14:19] Rob Linden: 
* [14:20] Youri Ashton: bug I foudn recently is the mini map being messed up once, after relog no more problem of this kind (ill post more later on JIRA)
* [14:20] Rob Linden: the reporter there reports a catastrophic crash. seems environment related, though
* [14:22] Rob Linden: we could use a developer volunteer to chase down a fix for this one: 
* [14:23] Rob Linden: we reproed the problem. it's not clear it's a showstopper, but a fix would be nice
* [14:23] Techwolf Lupindo: merv, any way to trap that? A single externial decode of a single image shoulcn't take down the entire program.
* [14:24] Merov Linden: 13742 is 100% repro and easy to check
* [14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: something I meant to add to that report: sometimes the textures show up for a while before turning gray, probably at a lower discard level
* [14:25] Merov Linden: interesting!
* [14:25] Techwolf Lupindo: looks for the openjpeg patch someone handed him a couple months back...
* [14:25] Merov Linden: 13505 is all about discard level report being changed between "normal viewer" and "http-texture" specific code
* [14:25] Youri Ashton: I liek to ask a general question for all Snowglobe testers: I noticed I had a real increase of lagg while on Snowglobe (medium setting) and lagg increased over time. this started 3 days ago. Anyone here using snowglobe noticed the same?
* [14:26] Rob Linden: here's one we could use repro help with: 
* [14:26] Rob Linden: I'm just noticing Boroondas' comment on that one
* [14:26] Melinda Latynina: i noticed lag in places i don't normally expect it but that is independent of viewer version.
* [14:27] Youri Ashton: I havnt seen it on any other viewer happen untill today, thats why im asking
* [14:27] Youri Ashton: i tested that on 3 differend viewer versions
* [14:28] Youri Ashton: snowglobe, the latest nightly and 1.21
* [14:28] Philip Linden: I'd really love see a patch giving us some automation code for checking 'lag'. General request.
* [14:28] Morgaine Dinova: There's so much instrumentation already built into the viewer, can't we associate "lag" with one of the counters we have?
* [14:28] Techwolf Lupindo: I get lag due to the voice client being on. Something in the SL code that interfaces will sometime borked and cause frame dropage to 3-5fps. Disableing voice and re-enabling it clears it up.
* [14:28] Robin Cornelius: Techwolf your mic is comming on i can hear furious typing
* [14:28] Youri Ashton: agreed Philip, good point
* [14:28] Morgaine Dinova: Philip: great!
* [14:29] Morgaine Dinova: What you don't measure, you don't really know :P
* [14:29] Latif Khalifa: Techwolf, I have experienced viewer coming to a crawl while voice is enabled too
* [14:29] Philip Linden: Anyone that can think of/demo a way to autotest a viewer against a fixed content set with reproducible timings for things that are lag-related would be great.
* [14:29] Youri Ashton: i usually dont ahve lagg, since 3 days ago the Snowglobe viewer started it, now the other 2 have it aswell. I can relog every 2 hours now
* [14:29] Merov Linden: Morgaine: you're right, I'm not aware of the fasttimers outputting to file however (would be nice to track and analyze)
* [14:29] Techwolf Lupindo: robin, I have stong claws. :-)
* [14:29] Youri Ashton: im on a high end pc, so should not be possible to do so
* [14:29] Philip Linden: This could be great community work.
* [14:30] Youri Ashton: we all want a great viewer Philip :p
* [14:30] Techwolf Lupindo: Speaking of fast times, when I turn on fast timers, they stop in less then a half second for me. Happen every time a try it.
* [14:30] Rob Linden: back on 
* [14:31] Rob Linden: ....anyone willing to try coming up with a fix?
* [14:31] Twisted Laws: if you click them tech, they stop, click again to restart
* [14:31] Youri Ashton: any scruplty masters?
* [14:31] Techwolf Lupindo: I don't click on them.
* [14:31] Morgaine Dinova: When rendering FPS drops then yeah, a lot of things "lag", since networking is done in the render loop. If you render at 1 FPS, your ping time is 1000 ms, sadly.
* [14:32] Rob Linden: Youri: I don't think it's really a problem that relies on scultpy expertise
* [14:32] Techwolf Lupindo: I truen it on, it stoped and clicking on it won't start fast timers up again. Dumping them into a file would be good. :-)
* [14:32] Youri Ashton: Rob: im clueless to that one unfortunately, else ill be happy to help out ;)
* [14:32] Thickbrick Sleaford: about vwr-13742: anyone with snoeglobe sees the sculpty on the floor in front of me as gray (as opposed to 100% transparent)?
* [14:32] Rob Linden: one thing we should mention about VWR-13742: the problem description probably makes it look hairier than it really is
* [14:32] Merov Linden: I've sen some new code in llviewerimage to handle sculpties images, could be that the display UI is not aware of the change... points to some old pointer...
* [14:32] Philip Linden: I'd be delighted to pay contract for someone wanting to write a series of automation tests around lag. Upping the ante...
* [14:33] Philip Linden: :)
* [14:33] Morgaine Dinova: Aww, cruel :-)
* [14:33] Techwolf Lupindo: thinks of taking that challenge...
* [14:34] Merov Linden: thinks he should comment on 13742
* [14:34] Youri Ashton: i seem to be in high lag areas all the time, it might be handy to get that reported on JIRA
* [14:34] Aimee Trescothick: heh, a reward on the head of the abominable lag monster
* [14:34] Techwolf Lupindo: Ooo....I just though of the way to automate the keyboard and mouse....
* [14:34] Morgaine Dinova: Aimee: lol, nice image :-)
* [14:35] Philip Linden: In general I think there are numerous places where LL would be interested in contracting pieces of work that can be done using the Snowglobe code.
* [14:35] Annie Obscure: Philip, you're presumably talking aboutclient side lag?
* [14:35] Philip Linden: Something we've been thinking about.
* [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: I can see the headlines already, "Philip Linden puts out contract on lag monster" :-)
* [14:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'll do the photoshop wanted sign!
* [14:35] Merov Linden: many a fine knights have been slain by lag monster...
* [14:36] Saijanai Kuhn: doesn't understand the GPL client well enough to do anything like that with it
* [14:36] Youri Ashton: sounds like there is a bounty being put out on the ugly monster people :D
* [14:36] Philip Linden: Annie: I'm talking about writing automated tests that measure viewer performance between builds,
* [14:36] Saijanai Kuhn: OTOH, pyogp... ;-)
* [14:36] Philip Linden: by logging into a fixed location.
* [14:36] Youri Ashton: just on snowglobe or on any other official viewer?
* [14:36] Robin Cornelius: even tha may not be representitive enough to be useful
* [14:36] Techwolf Lupindo: Philip, the more I think about it, I'll considering taking up that challenge. There is stuff allready in place to measure the lag, the console output of the snowglobe prints fps...I just though up a way to fully automate a test.
* [14:37] Philip Linden: Techwolf - that would be great.
* [14:37] Youri Ashton: think its wise to try on multiple viewers, then you would get a better result in the end
* [14:37] Merov Linden: good tech, that's why I mentioned Fasttimers
* [14:37] Thickbrick Sleaford: isn't there already fps data being sent to LL?
* [14:37] Robin Cornelius: repeatability is the key to measuing lag and one of the most difficult things to achieve as there are lots of variables ,not that one should not try ;-) but its not simple
* [14:37] Philip Linden: Perhaps you could follow up with some specifics on how you'd do it.
* [14:38] Annie Obscure: yah, seems simple enough to use any of a zillion test robots out there to automate the user interaction.
* [14:38] Techwolf Lupindo: I may make up a prototype in the next few days.
* [14:38] Youri Ashton: wth just happened on mini map? someone trying to rezz a mega prim or something? it turned grey and back to normal just now
* [14:38] Rob Linden: didint' see anything unusual
* [14:38] Merov Linden: hugs tech... hope he won't mind... :)
* [14:38] Philip Linden: robin is correct, I think the place to start to demonstrate the same values on multiple runs of same viewer.
* [14:38] Latif Khalifa: Youri, known bug when someone logs in or crosses into region
* [14:38] Sebastean Steamweaver: :o
* [14:38] Youri Ashton: i got it up always, so i noticed it
* [14:38] Youri Ashton: was about 4 sims big
* [14:38] Sebastean Steamweaver: Tech, you've received the sacred linden touch!
* [14:39] Dancer Greenfield: I didn't see anything just now, but that's happened a lot lately
* [14:39] Youri Ashton: so far i saw that is
* [14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: Merov, not at all. :-)
* [14:39] Youri Ashton: hi darv!
* [14:39] Darv Linden: waves!
* [14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: smiles
* [14:39] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi Darv
* [14:40] Melinda Latynina: i just had an idea for a nice visualization: run two stand-alone tests simultainiously and render two graph lines over time of the frame rate observed by the viewer and by a separate test of the sim refresh rate. that way you can correlate changes in one side affecting the other.
* [14:41] Melinda Latynina: not exactly automated because it requires human to evaluate tho
* [14:41] Youri Ashton: anyways, the lag monster should indeed be caughed, its getting worse lately again. I been getting a lot of complaints about it, so I am happy Philip brought it up
* [14:41] Annie Obscure: Philip, part of the problme here is getting stability, when I see things all the time that make me suspect there's network gear backups in your data center.
* [14:42] Morgaine Dinova: Melinda: do you mean post-processed visualization, taken from captured timing dumps?
* [14:43] Melinda Latynina: it could be post process of a moving real-time chart
* [14:43] Melinda Latynina: ^or^ a real-time chart
* [14:43] Youri Ashton: usually the chat lagg is going as lost of the lag types, but today it went out the roof around several sims. needed to wait up to 5 minutes before a simple line as hello was posted
* [14:43] Techwolf Lupindo: Melinda, I just though up a way to do that....
* [14:44] Youri Ashton: if LL is working on the server or trying to update anything, then that could be the couse of the problem though
* [14:44] Melinda Latynina: maybe u can get that view already from the statistics floater tho
* [14:44] Philip Linden: I'd try and stay tactical: we need something that automatically logs the viewer in and measures basic stuff like FPS, ping, and chat delay in a repeatable way.
* [14:44] Melinda Latynina: right
* [14:44] Rob Linden: food for thought.
* [14:45] Philip Linden: With the simplest couple stats in place, we could extend to measure all kinds of good things.
* [14:45] Rob Linden: we should probably discuss more on the mailing list
* [14:45] Youri Ashton: go to waterhead, lagg garantued!
* [14:45] Philip Linden: right rob.
* [14:45] Youri Ashton: always a griefer there
* [14:45] Rob Linden: I'd like to circle back to 
* [14:45] Annie Obscure: how about modding a viewer so it repeatedly asks for the same texture, so we can see if the transit time varies?
* [14:45] Morgaine Dinova: Need standardized test sims too, containing a fixed object population, never changing.
* [14:45] Robin Cornelius: wonder if libomv/pygop would be good for some of this. tests the actual network/server performance of that area, so chat lag. group chat lag etc would be a good target for that
* [14:45] Am I: Gray? whispers: Setting text to object's name, description. Self-removing script.
* [14:45] Rob Linden: everyone keeps ducking on the call for devs to help out with 
* [14:45] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: in addition to viewer tests
* [14:46] Rob Linden: anyone....anyone....Bueller?
* [14:46] Youri Ashton: I noticed it was tested on Linux, isnt it a better idea to get a Linx user to test it out?
* [14:46] Annie Obscure: I'd sign up, but I'm not familiar enough with the VWR code to do it
* [14:46] Rob Linden: we may just need to ship with that one broken
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: Rob i may peek at it, if my work load lag gets better
* [14:46] Philip Linden: +1
* [14:46] Youri Ashton: just a thought tho
* [14:47] Techwolf Lupindo: Rob, if I as an experence devoloper, I could hep you there. But I can't.
* [14:47] Philip Linden: overall what we have seems fairly stable.
* [14:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: I'm not a real dev... but I'll try to see if I can figure out more info about it
* [14:47] Rob Linden: Robin, thanks! Robin does quite a bit on this already....anyone else willing to help out if Robin can't get to it?
* [14:48] Youri Ashton: lol there went the mini map again :p
* [14:48] Youri Ashton: twice
* [14:48] Aimee Trescothick: "I'm not a real dev I just play one on TV" ;)
* [14:48] Philip Linden: Can I do a quick poll... how many people here are actual devs with ability to compile SL client?
* [14:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh
* [14:48] Saijanai Kuhn: no to the first, yes to the second
* [14:48] Aimee Trescothick: ducks at the mention of mini-map
* [14:48] Rob Linden: is a poser
* [14:48] Almosty Baxton: Hi all
* [14:48] Techwolf Lupindo: I maintain the gentoo seconlife overlay. I'me not a devoloper, but can defentlly build the client. :-)
* [14:48] Latif Khalifa: raises hand
* [14:48] Thickbrick Sleaford: can compile, and do _some_ c++
* [14:49] Melinda Latynina: yes to both but i don't want to build the client
* [14:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm here to learn how :)
* [14:49] Almosty Baxton: Are you all SL techies??
* [14:49] Morgaine Dinova: I am, but I'm not volunteering currently owing to lack of experience with the viewer code. But I'll get there, time permitting.
* [14:49] Aimee Trescothick: +1 (Though some of my customers may disagree ;)
* [14:49] Saijanai Kuhn: has a book on C++...
* [14:49] Twisted Laws: believes the mini-map flash was a megaprim being rez'd by a hud to check avatars in the sim. Happens often enough in the sandbox that my own viewer is patched to not display megaprims on the minimap.
* [14:49] Geneko Nemeth: I've never written a line of C++ code outside my C++ class... but I sometimes do compile stuff.
* [14:49] Annie Obscure: I'm an experienced dev, but would be starting nearly fresh with the viewer code
* [14:50] Youri Ashton: i noticed the same Twisted
* [14:50] Youri Ashton: thats what i said earlier aswell btw
* [14:50] Youri Ashton: noticed 3 times so far
* [14:50] Latif Khalifa: i have a good understanding of the protocol and networking parts, i got a bit of understanding with the interface code, graphics rendering part is still a black magic box to me
* [14:50] Philip Linden: That is helpful, thx for the quick poll.
* [14:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: I need to head out. Take care all!
* [14:50] Saijanai Kuhn: Robin, for simple text-based stuff like cha/IMt, pyogp should be OK for measuring lag.
* [14:50] Youri Ashton: ther again
* [14:51] Saijanai Kuhn: chat/IM
* [14:51] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Seb
* [14:51] Robin Cornelius: would probebly give better metrics than a graphics viewer for that section
* [14:51] Melinda Latynina: twisted: i just took off a scanner i was testing for someone. let me know if that changes anything?
* [14:51] Techwolf Lupindo: I can do scripting of all types. Can groke C and C++ code and all code in general to some extent. I understand hardware well and therefor understand what software has to do in order to do its job.
* [14:51] Latif Khalifa: Youri, mini map blanks out like that everytime someone logs in into the region
* [14:51] Merov Linden: added a comment in VWR-13742 I hope will point people in the right direction
* [14:52] Youri Ashton: no one coming in or out that often
* [14:52] Youri Ashton: this isnt the same old logging in/out of a new avi
* [14:52] Thickbrick Sleaford: Youri, 31 people in the sim right now
* [14:53] Twisted Laws: I'm a C++ developer but rendering code is still all a mystery to me. I can write network and ui code easy tho.
* [14:53] Tegg Bode: LSL and a bit of C++ is my evel, one day I will try a viewer compile
* [14:53] Youri Ashton: rob? any ideas about the subject?
* [14:53] Rob Linden: Youri: I'm confused. what's the question?
* [14:53] Techwolf Lupindo: My snowglobe that I just moved over to the beta grid is getting 120+ frames per second. But that with a simple sim wiht no avatars.
* [14:54] Rob Linden: back on SNOW-8, now that we have more of a repro.....
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: i keep seeing the mini map being greyed out a few times now while being here. it isnt when someone comes in the sim or leaves
* [14:54] Rob Linden: we could really use dev help on that one too
* [14:54] Annie Obscure: I'm seeing it too
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: its the size of 4 sims
* [14:54] Twisted Laws: no one new here on those flashs just now
* [14:54] Annie Obscure: odd part is, I wasn't seening it before
* [14:54] herina Bode: seeing it too
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: got it on pic now
* [14:54] Youri Ashton: ill send you rob
* [14:55] Rob Linden: I'm going to bet that one of us (prolly Merov) is going to need to look at it if no one else gets to it, but we'd so like more detail on that
* [14:55] Twisted Laws: instead of rovers some people rez megaprims and look for collisions.
* [14:55] Annie Obscure: 1.22.11
* [14:55] Philip Linden: Gotta run folks. Good to see everyone.
* [14:55] Youri Ashton: gave you minimap greyed? Hippotropolis (246, 18, 25).
* [14:55] Youri Ashton: bye bye Philip!
* [14:55] Tegg Bode: Cya
* [14:55] Dancer Greenfield: Bye Philip
* [14:55] Melinda Latynina: see ya!
* [14:55] Darv Linden: waves!
* [14:55] herina Bode: bye Philipp
* [14:55] Annie Obscure: bye
* [14:55] Merov Linden: Rob: right, I can *help* someone who'd be willing to dig through the code though
* [14:56] Techwolf Lupindo: I'll work on a couple automated test protypes. Where should I post/IM/etc any results?
* [14:56] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Philip
* [14:56] Youri Ashton: i only noticed that here, not in any other sim @ rob
* [14:56] Rob Linden: hmm....interesting Youri. could you file a bug on that one?
* [14:57] Youri Ashton: okay, i will
* [14:57] Merov Linden: Tech: @sldev to start with
* [14:57] Youri Ashton: any specific name on it?
* [14:57] Robin Cornelius: Tech, i woudl say sldev, but if you want to bounce any ideas in RT then on the IRC
* [14:57] Twisted Laws: Annie, its a hud rezzing those prims... come to any of the linden sandboxes and you will see it all the time.
* [14:57] Soft Linden: The megaprim flash on the mini map is an object owned by Nihal Quan.
* [14:57] Annie Obscure: ah, ok
* [14:57] Rob Linden: Youri: "Minimap occassionally turns grey"
* [14:58] Soft Linden: But yeah. Usually a scanner.
* [14:58] Annie Obscure: kk
* [14:58] Rob Linden: well, we're just about out of time
* [14:58] Youri Ashton: if thats true, then there is no JIRA needed
* [14:58] Almosty Baxton: guys can you develpo a stable linux version please.....
* [14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: BTW, Merov, I noticed the S3 map shows the main grid map when I'm on the beta grid.
* [14:58] Annie Obscure: Merov, I'd take you up on it - I have some cycles, and have been meaning to learn the viewer
* [14:58] Rob Linden: anyone have anything we need to cover?
* [14:58] Thickbrick Sleaford: is that by desing?
* [14:58] Almosty Baxton: i run fc9 and always crashes out after a couple of secs
* [14:58] Youri Ashton: If soft is right that is
* [14:59] Robin Cornelius: Any kind of crash log?
* [14:59] Annie Obscure: but it's not fair for me to say 'oh, I'll do it', I'm new to the viewer code
* [14:59] Youri Ashton: could anyone check?
* [14:59] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: the code points only to the main grid repo on S3
* [14:59] Youri Ashton: else the JIRA post is useless
* [14:59] Youri Ashton: [14:57
* [14:59] Merov Linden: true Thickbrick so that "as coded" (I wouldn't say "as designed"...)
* [14:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: heh, ok
* [14:59] Youri Ashton: i still see it happen, more often now tho
* [15:00] Rob Linden: Youri: I'm not seeing it
* [15:00] Geneko Nemeth: If it only reads from the Agni map repo, would it display map from Agni even in independent grids (e.g. OSGrid)?
* [15:00] Soft Linden: They're a little nw of here. You could ask him/her what it is if curious.
* [15:00] Youri Ashton: ill post it then just to be sure
* [15:00] Merov Linden: I don't think we run mapserver and store the tiles on S3 for test grids
* [15:00] Youri Ashton: already made a screenie earlier
* [15:00] Twisted Laws: I made a patch for my own viewer the disables rendering megaprims on the mini-map.
* [15:00] Morgaine Dinova: If Merov were to give a viewer code rundown lecture one day, I bet there'd be a massive turnout.
* [15:00] Youri Ashton: im currently on the latest nightly btw
* [15:00] Rob Linden: Thickbrick: a bug report would be good for that, even if we decide to mark it "won't fix"
* [15:00] Soft Linden: Yeah, I like that, Twisted. There's some discussion about limiting sizes or omitting them... they totally destroy a lot of regions' maps.
* [15:00] Annie Obscure: yes, no kidding
* [15:00] Merov Linden: man! that's a tall order Morgaine! :)
* [15:01] Geneko Nemeth: There's somebody who did a series of analysis blogs of Second Life code in Chinese.
* [15:01] Robin Cornelius: For any one who is intereset Jacek is just setting up the other side of hippo for the UX meeting
* [15:01] Merov Linden: I know people around here who know more than I do about the viewer code
* [15:01] Annie Obscure: well, if somebody would do a hand holding session to get the thing to compile, it'd help as well, and I know there are lots of non lindens who could do that
* [15:01] Twisted Laws: What is the UX meeting?
* [15:01] Melinda Latynina: oh hey, merov: I *love* the faster main map but i'm wondering, does it stop drawing the green dots earlier than it used to? it seems like i don't have to zoom out as far before they disappear but that might be because it's now much easier to zoom far out and notice that.
* [15:01] Geneko Nemeth: User Experience Interest Group...
* [15:01] Morgaine Dinova: Merov: hehe. I didn't mean extra work, just talking about the bits you know, no advanced prep :-)
* [15:02] Merov Linden: Melinda: correct, there's a threahold on getting and drawing the "green dots"
* [15:02] Rob Linden: alright, well I should get going
* [15:02] Annie Obscure: I've done this often enough in my life that my enthusiasm for a day or two of slamming my head in the wall to get all the bits in place to compile
* [15:02] Geneko Nemeth: since the UX Lindens decided to stop having and office hour, Jacek Antonelli and co. decided to start an user experience "unoffice" hour by themselves.
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: Oh yes, UXUG now
* [15:02] Rob Linden: I'd like to get easybuild-2 merged in today
* [15:02] Merov Linden: this is to avoid querrying the *whole grid* ( as the old code did)
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: UXIG
* [15:02] Melinda Latynina: merov: my question is whether that threshold changed?
* [15:03] Merov Linden: there was no threashold before Melinda
* [15:03] Melinda Latynina: ah ha!
* [15:03] Merov Linden: it was not visible because it was so darn slow...
* [15:03] Melinda Latynina: well then my suggestion is to make it less agressive
* [15:03] Merov Linden: not because it wasn't requested...
* [15:04] Merov Linden: well, something to try, the thing is that the number of regions we start hitting when zooming out grows rather fast
* [15:04] Merov Linden: but there's a constant you can change easily in the code
* [15:04] Geneko Nemeth: Couldn't it "bake" multiple regions into one texture?
* [15:05] Melinda Latynina: the green dots at high levels are just "representitive" rather than actual avatars when zoomed in, so it should be possible to control the cost that way
* [15:05] Morgaine Dinova: Annie, with Easybuild-2, building is pretty much just "cmake .; make" ... apart from deleting excessive bundled prebuilt libs.
* [15:06] Merov Linden: hmm... it's still a query per region...
* [15:06] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, I mean on Linux
* [15:06] Melinda Latynina: regardless, if a height threshold also seems like a good idea, i'd love to see it moved higher since i now find it annoying to look for activity via the clumps of dots
* [15:06] Annie Obscure: ah, cool
* [15:06] Techwolf Lupindo: I would love to just do "cmake", "cmake install".
* [15:06] Morgaine Dinova: Easybuild-2 is really getting there.
* [15:06] Annie Obscure: kk
* [15:07] Robin Cornelius: night all
* [15:07] Rob Linden: k...thanks everyone, gotta run
* [15:07] Home: Going: to home
* [15:07] Dancer Greenfield: Bye
* [15:07] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Rob!
* [15:07] Mike Chase: bye
* [15:07] Aimee Trescothick: night everyone :)
* [15:07] Annie Obscure: thanks rob
* [15:07] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you Rob
* [15:07] Darv Linden: Bye!