Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-11-03

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on November 03rd, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Welcome to the Server Beta User Group
=== Updates ===
* Interesting Week.
** Coyot explains what happened.
* "Second Life Server Channel"
** This is the "maint-server" update project from Magnum
** Lots of bug fixes in here.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.10.21.243634
* BlueSteel RC Channel
** This is the same "Refactored Voice Code" project as last week.
** bug fixes
*** Fixed syntax errors
*** Fix voice failure due to missing line in merge . voice channel info was not properly being set, hence it wasn't being passed back to the viewer
*** Fixed some private parcel voice issues
**** Voice dot disappears on entering a private spatial parcel
*** Fixed some calls to the vivox API
* https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.10.31.244269
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This new "maint-server" project.
* Bug Fixes
** 	Temp on Rezzed objects get queued 
** 	Driving a vehicle over into a full region gives strange error message: You can't enter this region because the sebehavior is full 
** 	For group notices groupID is being sent in the AgentID field 
** 	llMinEventDelay Bug 
** 	Simulator fails to load notecard asset (Intan won't read config card)
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.10.28.244134
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is a "havok" update project.
* No Bug Fixes
* Upgraded physics engine to Havok 2011.2. This brings in the latest work from Havok. We do not expect any noticeable change from this upgrade, but please let us know via jira if you see any new physics related issues.
* Implemented llSetKeyframedMotion (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetKeyframedMotion)
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.10.31.244254
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for November 03rd, 2011:
* [15:00] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:00] Gooden Uggla: hiya maestro
* [15:00] Kallista Destiny: Hiya Maestro
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: junk
* [15:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Coyot & Maestro.
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: jinx
* [15:01] Maestro Linden: hi guys
* [15:01] Vincent Nacon: old man fellin pool of water, where are the life guards?
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: good day to everyone!
* [15:01] Homeless: Was Casey Jones a QA engineer?
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: Hiya Coyot
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: hi all
* [15:02] Homeless: Hi Coyot
* [15:02] Coyot Linden: hi Homeless
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: Welcome to yet another edition of Linden Family Hour
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: brought to you by me!
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: and the letters Q and A
* [15:03] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny snickers
* [15:03] WolfPup Lowenhar: lol
* [15:03] Vincent Nacon: is there a setting to tune down his sense of humor?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: and here is the agenda
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: it's not humor
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I am not funny at all
* [15:03] Vincent Nacon: agenda >_<
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [15:03] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny snickers
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: but yes. there is a fairly simple way to tone me down
* [15:03] Vincent Nacon: heya
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: keyboard shortcut Alt-F4
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: hi
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: agenda ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
* [15:04] Knight Artis: hello
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: hello Knight
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: welcome
* [15:04] Kallista Destiny: I always knew hat Oskar had a sekret agenda
* [15:04] Knight Artis: thank you
* [15:05] Homeless: the next meeting is Oct 20th?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we are going to start off this week with a note from Coyot
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: about the releases this week
* [15:05] Gooden Uggla: *golf clap* for coyot
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: So, we had a couple of interesting things happen at once
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: heh
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: it was an interesting week
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: One, is that a internal deploy tool failed in a way never before seen or seen since
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: and while we were cleaning that up
* [15:06] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny whispers, in the 'chinese' sense of interesting
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: a breaker blew on a rack in the colo
* [15:06] Vincent Nacon: yeah even people in sailing race came to bug Andrew's meeting about it last Tuesday
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: u should have come to andrew's oh. lots of unhappy sailors
* [15:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ouch.
* [15:06] Flip Idlemind: "Deploy tool"? So you do have a big red rolling restart button
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: taking out a bunch of sim hosts and making the
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: simstates unavailable for those regions
* [15:06] Gooden UgglaGooden Uggla agrees with kallista's definition
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: something like that FLIP
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: OUCh
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: So, we stopped the roll as soon as we could on Tue
* [15:07] WolfPup Lowenhar: i gess that is why my region was doen for over an hour
* [15:07] Vincent Nacon: it was a waste of time talking about it
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: and cleaned everything up
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: We then continued the roll Wed
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: and pushed the RC rolls to today
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: yes, Wolfpup, that's why
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: It's been a long week. :(
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: region crossing issues for vehicles is an entirely different thing Vincent
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: I don't own any regions personally, but none of the ones I hang out in seemed to be down for that long
* [15:08] Vincent Nacon: yeah but... we have had that for a while anyway
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: Except for one that's been down for a couple weeks...I think it was deleted actually :/
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: Oskar: <EOF>
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: region crossing failures is a symptom. the root cause can be anything. we've fixed many root causes. sometimes new ones come up
* [15:09] Vincent Nacon: eh?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: the one we're seeing now is new
* [15:09] Vincent Nacon: it's very common that we have sim crossing since.... since I joined SL
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: it's most likely tied to the OS upgrades we just finished
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: and not relatedto the deploy issues
* [15:10] Vincent Nacon: right, it wasn't
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: yes it is a common symptom, but the cause is never the same
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it's liek saying "I can't log in" that's a symptom the reason might be anywhere
* [15:10] Rex Cronon: lots of symptoms?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: if we had a login issue in 2007 and one now it's not the same thing necessarily
* [15:11] Vincent Nacon: right but vehicle crossing isn't any different
* [15:11] RedMokum Bravin: You mean the experience doesn't feel different.
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: no single symptom, lots of cause... Much like 'Low Grade Fever;.
* [15:11] Vincent Nacon: and of course, they were racing sail bots in a Homestead sims.... -_-;
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: moving an avatar and their vehicle from one region to the next is actually a very complicated juggling act of many different services. Any one of those services not performing up to par has the perceived symptom of a failed region crossing.
* [15:12] Vincent Nacon: boats*
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: the most recently perceived region crossing failures (that I have seen as well) are most likely tied to the OS upgrades
* [15:12] Rex Cronon: u need the equivalent of doctor house to find the sickness;)
* [15:12] Leonel Iceghost: can you create a way to re-try without needing people to restart manualy?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we have a potential fix in QA right now
* [15:12] Flip Idlemind: Oh I bet House would love to work at LL
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: I'm not sure what you mean Leonel
* [15:13] Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Morris/229/216/36
* [15:13] Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Gibson/39/203/18
* [15:13] Fancy Greeter: Oskar Linden has arrived!
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: we do have a House Linden
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: haha
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: :)
* [15:13] Leonel Iceghost: you restart and you can enter well in the sim.. so I wonder is you can automate that without droping the conection
* [15:13] Flip Idlemind: Does he call all the other Lindens idiots?
* [15:13] RedMokum Bravin: Hmmm create bigger regions :-)
* [15:13] Vincent Nacon: and LL wouldn't have enough escorts to keep him there
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: trying to type capital H I accidentally hit Ctrl- Shift- H and was tp'd home
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: oops
* [15:14] Vincent Nacon: go home!
* [15:14] Vincent Nacon: :P
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: Lols
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: :)
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: why not make the viewers add a special flag each time a crash details r sent if it happened on a crossing?
* [15:14] Flip Idlemind: I accidentally TP'ed home once, but I actually don't know how it happened
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: we gather all sorts of metrics Rex
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: we know exactly when region crossing and tp times start to increase even in the slightest
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: that's when we start looking into the code and seeing what might have caused it
* [15:15] Leonel Iceghost: and you see it increasing or it is the same?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: despite common public perceptions we watch data like that closely
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: it might make it easier what is similar in all the sim crossing crashes
* [15:15] Vincent Nacon: even upset sailors?
* [15:15] Leonel Iceghost: sailors said that it is the same since a couple of years ago
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: it has increased recently
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: region crossing issues from a few years ago are not the same as the ones now
* [15:16] Rex Cronon: easier to see*
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: that's what I am trying to say
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: and with that said I will move on with the agenda
* [15:16] Vincent Nacon: right but not with vehicle crossing
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: oops
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: it looks like I missed a part in the agenda
* [15:16] Coyot Linden: we have an agenda? ;)
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: my bad
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: let me fix that real quick
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: maestro please entertain people with an interpretive dance
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: while I adjust the agenda
* [15:17] Maestro Linden: ok
* [15:17] Rex Cronon: i was wondering. why is oskar a cube? was he assimilated by the borg:)
* [15:18] Nalates Urriah: Do we know what % of residents are now using a mesh render capable viewer?
* [15:18] Vincent Nacon: why not?
* [15:18] Homeless: the date is fixed now
* [15:18] Vincent Nacon: maybe he didn't like being square, so went cube instead
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: the dance maestro is performing now is called, Release and QA
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: it's a sensual dance
* [15:18] Homeless: it all starts with a cube
* [15:19] Leonel Iceghost: that dance doesn't seem stable
* [15:19] Rex Cronon: to please the gods:)
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: it describes the intimate relationship our two teams share
* [15:19] Vincent Nacon: kinky
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: ok the agenda is fixed
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: main channel got the maint-server from Magnum
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: that way it won't have little agendas
* [15:19] Homeless: maestro looks drunk
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: there are a lot of good bug fixes in here
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: region stability seems to have improved
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: not counting region crossings or the release/colo issues of this week
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: llGetObjectDetails() is out in full now
* [15:20] Vincent Nacon: of course, not counting upset sailors
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: the new features are
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: I wish that they had gone to Magnum.... (5927)
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel is the same this week as it was last week
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: but last week it was on LT as well
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: nothing new there
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: I've not heard any issues of voice bugs
* [15:22] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived!
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: so it looks like that is going well
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: LeTigre this week got a new maint-server branch
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: SVC-5927 is in there
* [15:22] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927
* [15:22] Leonel Iceghost: have you fixed the bug that leaves voice open without indication that it is open? (maybe it is phoenix problem)
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: I don't know Leonel
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: SVC-7360 is also fixed
* [15:23] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7360] Driving a vehicle over into a full region gives strange error message: You can't enter this region because the sebehavior is full https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7360
* [15:23] Flip Idlemind: I've seen that
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: as is SVC-7379
* [15:23] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7379] For group notices groupID is being sent in the AgentID field https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7379
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: SVC-7343
* [15:23] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7343] llMinEventDelay Bug https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7343
* [15:23] Flip Idlemind: Whats annoying is you can't turn the person's voice down
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: and SVC-7354
* [15:23] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7354] Simulator fails to load notecard asset (Intan won't read config card) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7354
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: is it a vwr bug Flip?
* [15:24] Flip Idlemind: Might be, I've heard that it's a Firestorm problem
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: some good fixes in LeTigre
* [15:24] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi has never experienced that on LL viewers.
* [15:24] Flip Idlemind: But I feel like I've seen it happen to people on other viewers. Don't know for sure though
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: We actually tested a version of Andrew's fix for 5927 and were very happy with it.
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: that's good to hear Kallista
* [15:24] Leonel Iceghost: it happens to me and a friend every single log in.. the only way to turn it of is by touching the lock, phoenix both
* [15:25] Leonel Iceghost: also at every teleport
* [15:26] Leonel Iceghost: so I have to remember to touch the lock twise every teleport :P
* [15:26] Flip Idlemind: I bet the viewer, the voice client, the Vivox servers, and the LL servers all work together in some complicated, magical way?
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: uhh
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: yes?
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: I think your description describes every web app ever made
* [15:26] Flip Idlemind: That means it could be anything, maybe
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:26] Vincent Nacon: gotta have magic to please everyone
* [15:27] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny snickers then waves her wand
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: yes Kallista
* [15:27] Kallista Destiny: magic
* [15:27] Kallista Destiny: I'm surprised that voice works as well as it does.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: i see
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: you weren't waving your hand for a chance to speak
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it was a magical spell kind of hand waving
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: got it
* [15:28] Kallista Destiny: Oh sorry.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: you should create a magic word to shout
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: like LINDENIA LABORIUM
* [15:28] Kallista Destiny: ABRACADABRA
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: give it some weight
* [15:29] Coyot Linden: brb
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: anyways
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: Magnum this week
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: Havok got updates
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: there are no bug fixes or even features
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: we're trying to keep our havok code more up to date with the main havok code
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: that way we don't get into situations where we have to do a collossal merge
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: this is one of those cases where we don't THINK anything should break
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: and we haven't SEEN anything break
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: but please prove us wrong
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: not since some earlier aditi version, anyway..
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: there is a feature though, oskar
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: ask and ye shall receive
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I do ask
* [15:31] Homeless: HAVOKU BREAKORIUM
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: llSetKeyframedMotion() is new
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: and I do receive
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: so bring it
* [15:31] Vincent Nacon: waiting for that to be supported on attachment/hud
* [15:32] Vincent Nacon: not as physical, of course
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: we have noticed an increased crash rate for Magnum regions
* [15:32] Vincent Nacon: due to Havok?
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: falcon was already on the fix
* [15:32] Kallista Destiny: already?
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: yeah we can blame falcon
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: yeah we're fast
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: sometimes
* [15:33] Vincent Nacon: not fast enough
* [15:33] Coyot Linden: back
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: sorry Vincent
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: we're only human
* [15:33] Kallista Destiny: the new code has been in servcie for lik 8 hours
* [15:33] Vincent Nacon: faster! Warp 10
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: that's mostly it for updates
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: Maestro anything upcoming to talk about
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: or Kelly
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: hm not really
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: there's some region crossing stuff coming up, but it's still a ways away
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: (changes to the server code, unrelated to the problems with the kernel update)
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: We mentioned SCR-37 at the last Server User Group
* [15:35] Flame of Jira: [#SCR-37] llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-37
* [15:36] Kelly Linden: Hope to get that on aditi soon.
* [15:36] Ima Mechanique: how soon before we can play with that Kelly?
* [15:36] Vincent Nacon: as for physic and Vehicle, would you like it that I make some documented feature request what we (as in majority vehicle creators) want and expect in new vehicle API on the Wiki?
* [15:36] Vincent Nacon: instead of JORA
* [15:36] Vincent Nacon: JIRA*
* [15:36] Kelly Linden: Ima: If the stars align, next week or the week after on aditi. Hitting an open RC slot might be harder.
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: You're welcome to Vincent. I can't promise it will be included.
* [15:37] Vincent Nacon: I know, that's why I'm asking
* [15:37] Ima Mechanique: aditi first is great, probably safer too ;-)
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: but I would pass on a wiki for you to the development teams
* [15:37] Flip Idlemind: With all the fake money we have here
* [15:37] Vincent Nacon: to give people more chance to talk about it before your team could get onto it
* [15:37] Vincent Nacon: to save time
* [15:38] Vincent Nacon: I've done the same thing for Avatar 2.0 request
* [15:38] Vincent Nacon: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_2.0
* [15:38] Ima Mechanique: kelly, did you find out if the transaction id is available for LSL?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: like I said I can't promise anything but if you want to create a feature request list you are more than welcome to
* [15:39] Vincent Nacon: not sure what I should call it, btw
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: It is. For successful cases the ID of the event will match what shows in the transaction history on secondlife.com
* [15:39] Ima Mechanique: excellent, that will be so useful
* [15:39] Vincent Nacon: oh I know, even Falcon said he wanted to since he knows there are vehicle library in Havok's source
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: If the transfer fails, then I don't think there is anything to see or compare it to - the uuid won't match anything then.
* [15:39] Rex Cronon: how do u get this transaction id?
* [15:40] Leonel Iceghost: Kelly do you think we will be able to look at the transactions history in the future from a script?
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: call it Vincent's Manifesto For LL To For Sure Add To All Vehicles
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: Also on success the 'data' string in the event will be <destination_id>,<amount>
* [15:40] Vincent Nacon: very touching
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: VMFLLTFSATAV for short
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: And on failure the data string will be a short error tag string, like INVALID_AMOUNT
* [15:40] Oskar LindenOskar Linden tones down the humor
* [15:40] Vincent Nacon: :P
* [15:41] Kelly Linden: Leonel: That is not nearly as easy and I don't know of any plans to enable that.
* [15:41] Vincent Nacon: you're a bomb, for crying out loud, bomb don't have humor. :P
* [15:41] Homeless: what does ALT-F4 shortcut do? I'm afraid to try it in case it will reformat my hard drive
* [15:42] Vincent Nacon: correction... pixelated bomb
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: It logs out out.
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: you out
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: haha
* [15:42] Vincent Nacon: go for it, Homeless
* [15:42] Ima Mechanique: Alt-F$ is the standard Window's short-cut for closing the application
* [15:42] Homeless: lol I'll try after the meeting is over
* [15:42] Vincent Nacon: shh
* [15:43] Homeless: good that it's only close, not format
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I apologize if my humorous approach comes across as indifferent. I try to have fun with my job and I really enjoy these meetings with all of you
* [15:43] Rex Cronon: u could also try ctrl+alt+del;)
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:43] Vincent Nacon: I know you do, just too much some times
* [15:43] Vincent Nacon: ;)
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: so we've got like 20 minutes left
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: or 17
* [15:43] Ima Mechanique: do Macs have an equivalent to Alt-F4?
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: we can chat about whatever you want
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: macs use Command Q
* [15:43] Vincent Nacon: yeah, power plug
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: 16 minutes at 5 seconds
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: and
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: thanks Flip
* [15:44] Nalates Urriah: Do we know what % of residents are now using a mesh render capable viewer?
* [15:44] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Linux usually uses Alt+F4, depending on the desktop environment.
* [15:44] Vincent Nacon: interesting question, Nal
* [15:44] Homeless: How many lines of code is the server up to?
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: I can get that number Nalates
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: Precise time is fun time
* [15:44] Vincent Nacon: counting FS viewers?
* [15:44] Leonel Iceghost: do you think you can share a complete LSL grammar? the operators precedence in the wiki is wrong and it is complicated to copy the behaviour of LSL
* [15:45] Nalates Urriah: neat... I don't really care what brand viewer but lots of people would like to know.
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: what do you mean Leonel?
* [15:45] Kelly Linden: I do not have one to share at this time.
* [15:45] Vincent Nacon: no clue what leo is asking about
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: kelly knows
* [15:45] Vincent Nacon: not a scripter, Leo?
* [15:45] Leonel Iceghost: at least can you clarify a couple of things? negation is before multiplication in LSL right?
* [15:46] Vincent Nacon: ah I see
* [15:46] Kallista Destiny: a Formal defination fo th language
* [15:46] Kallista Destiny: Which may not exist anywhere
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: Leonel: one solution is to just use enough parens to disambiguate and not rely on the order of ops at all
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: ugly, but it works
* [15:46] Leonel Iceghost: I want to make my own parser
* [15:47] Vincent Nacon: ahh no wonder
* [15:47] Coyot Linden: why/
* [15:47] Vincent Nacon: but yeah... why?
* [15:47] Leonel Iceghost: to optimize a bit the code
* [15:47] Flip Idlemind: For fun obviously
* [15:47] Kallista Destiny: Someone just took CS59 Compiler design
* [15:47] Leonel Iceghost: put includes, inline functions, things like that
* [15:47] Vincent Nacon: you can't really make it more opimized than it already is
* [15:47] Coyot Linden: haha Kallista
* [15:48] Rex Cronon: vincent. unless u have seen the code u can't know that:)
* [15:48] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden hands Leo his copy of O'Reilly's "Lex and YACC"
* [15:48] Vincent Nacon: code wise, you could but the way it's already written with mono... you can't
* [15:48] Leonel Iceghost: and I want to create an external interpreter, but things are not working the same way than in LSL, and C grammars seem to be different
* [15:49] Leonel Iceghost: how do you compile the compiler to mono?
* [15:49] Kallista Destiny: Optimising Lsl is like Gilding poop, it;s shiny but still interpreted. so you've wasted a lot of effort.
* [15:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: Leonel you could always rip the script engin from the viewer itsself
* [15:49] Vincent Nacon: yeah Kal
* [15:50] Leonel Iceghost: I tried Wolfpup, but the expression part is all together.. it seems it is an LALR parser.. and I don't know how to look at the operator precedence from that
* [15:50] Vincent Nacon: you only really can optimize more if you could directly upload the source without LSL compiling
* [15:51] Ima Mechanique: Leonel, you might want to look at https://github.com/pclewis/lslint
* [15:51] Leonel Iceghost: you can optimize a lot Vincent with just the code
* [15:51] Kelly Linden: Leonel: The grammer has been frozen for a while. I would go http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Obsolete_Source_downloads and then grab the very first release from 2007. I'm pretty confident all of LSL is in there.
* [15:51] Kallista Destiny: Or get a copy of lsleditor
* [15:51] Vincent Nacon: with values, yeah but that's kinda the limit as far you can get
* [15:51] Kelly Linden: However there are licensing issues on code reuse - but nothing that wouldn't come attached to anything I could give you on it.
* [15:51] Flip Idlemind: So SVC-7404 is receiving attention. That makes me happy
* [15:52] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7404] Display Name Lookups Fail for Banned Accounts https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7404
* [15:52] Leonel Iceghost: thanks a lot you all
* [15:53] Leonel Iceghost: also do you think I can modify the operator precedence webpage? I'm not sure but I think it is all wrong
* [15:53] Leonel Iceghost: in the wiki
* [15:53] Vincent Nacon: I don't think I've heard the reason why you need to look up displayed named for the banned
* [15:53] Kelly Linden: only if you can prove it is wrong.
* [15:53] Vincent Nacon: I mean... how are you going to get their name if they're already banned?
* [15:53] Flip Idlemind: I don't need to, it happens automatically
* [15:53] Flip Idlemind: If "the banned" happen to be on your friends list
* [15:54] Vincent Nacon: wait what?
* [15:54] Rex Cronon: if u have an object created by such a person
* [15:54] Vincent Nacon: it have to be in the same sim
* [15:54] Rex Cronon: or encounter such an object
* [15:54] Gooden Uggla: there's a problem involving estate bans and deleted accounts that continues to be worrisome
* [15:54] Vincent Nacon: ohhh llRequestDisplayName, n/m
* [15:55] Vincent Nacon: but why displayname instead of Key?
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: With enough "banned" friends, and enough time logged in, the viewer can eat up so much memory that it starts saying "Guess what guize? Im outta memory"
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: To be technical
* [15:56] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: We should probably make a 2nd Jira for the viewer memory bloat issue
* [15:56] Kallista Destiny: Question... now that you've pretty much fixed the 'Here comes an avatar' lag burst , is there any plan to look into the 'There goes an Avatar' lag burst?
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: it might happen whenever there's an error in the backend servie..
* [15:58] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny listens to the crickets
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: And it's not just memory. With the "curlUseMultipleThreads" debug setting set to false, the viewer constantly sending Vivox buddy updates causes hude "frame stalls"
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: I guess is what those are called
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: huge
* [15:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: FLIP - that's one reason CurlUseMultipleThreads is set to TRUE by default now.
* [15:59] Vincent NaconVincent Nacon makes surprised and weird face as he watches Maestro file his painted nails.
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: Kallista that the "mono derez freeze"
* [15:59] Flip Idlemind: And that's good (that curlUseMultipleThreads is TRUE), but the never ending buddy updates are the real problem in this case
* [15:59] Homeless: Maestro shouldn't have any fingers left he's been filing for so long
* [16:00] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
* [16:00] Flip Idlemind: It's only slightly less frame-stall-y with curlUseMultipleThreads set to TRUE
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: his nails grow so fast
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: the bell tolls 4
* [16:00] Kallista Destiny: I believe that is what it's called. "There goes an avatar" makes it clear to the people that I need to explain it to in my Regions.
* [16:00] Vincent Nacon: along with his paints?
* [16:00] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [16:00] Gooden Uggla: yes, we're still dealing with those freezes too
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: thanks for the meeting today everyone
* [16:00] Vincent Nacon: I've called it a Jet Lag
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: Kelly? any plans to fix the other half of the mono freeze bug?
* [16:01] Kallista Destiny: Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
* [16:01] Ima Mechanique: thank myou lindens
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: tc oskar
* [16:01] Nalates Urriah: bye
* [16:01] Sigma Avro: hello all
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: bye all
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: thanks oskar
* [16:01] Homeless: well this is it... ALT-F4 time. wish me luck and tc everyone!
* [16:01] Kallista Destiny: Thank you all, We realise that you are a busy bunch and we appreciate you presence
* [16:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: tc everyone
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: tc coyot
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: y'all come back now, ya hear?
* [16:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you Oskar, Coyot, Maestro & Kelly.
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend everyone!
* [16:01] Maestro Linden: bye guys, thanks for coming!