Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.09.02

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.08.26	Next 2014.09.09
== List of Speakers ==
Darien Caldwell	Hexapoda 	Inara Pey
Jenna Felton 	Kallista Destiny	Lexbot Sinister
Lucia Nightfire	Martinrj Fayray 	MB Robonaught
Mona Eberhardt 	Nalates Urriah 	Oz Linden
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone
[12:01] Jenna Felton: hi Simon
[12:02] Simon Linden: Let's see ...
[12:02] Simon Linden: the updates are pretty simple this week. The server code in the RC channels is going to be rolled to the main one tomorrow
[12:02] Jenna Felton: that looks like PHP, MB
[12:02] Simon Linden: We're a day later than usual because of the holiday in the USA
[12:03] Simon Linden: Thursday there will not be any RC update
[12:03] Simon Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-09-01/td-p/2812224
[12:03] Simon Linden: That has the details
[12:03] Rex Cronon: how can u guys let the "web stuff" die:(
[12:03] MB Robonaught: no it's asp.net....any page that is an .aspx the media fails to read all the source sent it
[12:04] Jenna Felton: i see
[12:04] MB Robonaught: php pages still read
[12:04] Simon Linden: That's it for my news ... so the floor is open for questions, issues and random topics
[12:04] Darien Caldwell: Rex, i am not aware of anything LL did that should be breaking HTTP based scripts.
[12:04] Rex Cronon: i use php. and my stuff doesn't work:(
[12:04] Darien Caldwell: i use HTTP in SL extensively, all seems a-ok
[12:05] MB Robonaught: the value is dropped from a .aspx page
[12:05] Inara Pey: So, the 17th - same time?
[12:05] Inara Pey: oops, wrong window
[12:05] MB Robonaught: also some prims fail to auto load
[12:06] Simon Linden: Rex ... can you send me an example of the text your php would give back to LSL? The full text, if you can
[12:06] Darien Caldwell: I had a scripting question for Kelly. is he available?
[12:07] MB Robonaught: would it be ok if I sent a sample as well, simon?
[12:07] Hexapoda: The new sunshine is a nightmare for me, if I turn around objects go away and when they load I get a bit of lag.
[12:07] Rex Cronon: it desn't send back anyting. this sends text to my server
[12:08] Simon Linden: No Darien, he's not
[12:09] Simon Linden: so do you know why it causes trouble for your server?
[12:10] Rex Cronon: i have no idea. i just got here. tried to turn it on and seems the server doesn't receive anything from here:(
[12:10] Darien Caldwell: sometimes individual sims can have issues.
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: time to contact your host service, heh
[12:10] Darien Caldwell: but usually your script should receive an error code back
[12:11] Rex Cronon: i can contact my server using a web browser
[12:11] MB Robonaught: mine is a failure clientside which would be media
[12:11] Darien Caldwell: yeah MB, that's a whole other kettle of fish
[12:11] Darien Caldwell: if you're doing something client side, that's going to be changing soon anyway
[12:11] Seewo (siwo): many main channel sims act pretty bad after last week maintenance
[12:12] Darien Caldwell: LL's working on replacing Webkit with CEF
[12:12] getWebFile: Hello, Avatar!
[12:12] MB Robonaught: but I have intermittent sending issues as well where the media doesn't update the url when sent a query
[12:13] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:13] Simon Linden: are the failures 100%, all the time, or intermittent?
[12:13] MB Robonaught: read failures are 100%
[12:13] Rex Cronon: nothing goes through:(
[12:13] CmdrCupcake's ear: Seewo lightly pets CmdrCupcake behind their ear.
[12:14] Simon Linden: Rex - have you tried on the main channel servers too?
[12:14] MB Robonaught: mine it fails to read the "value" in the code....including the words value=
[12:15] Rex Cronon: this is not main channel?
[12:15] Seewo (siwo): it is
[12:16] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:17] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:17] Simon Linden: ok ... I would have gotten nervous if this didn't reproduce on the main channel
[12:18] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:18] Darien Caldwell: i'd probably guess it's a problem between here and your server
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: we're on mc atm, heh
[12:18] Darien Caldwell: not with SL itself
[12:18] Darien Caldwell: could be broken internet, or your service provider has blocked LL
[12:18] Darien Caldwell: it happens
[12:19] Rex Cronon: dariend. do u have scripts inside sl contact an outside server?
[12:19] Darien Caldwell: yep
[12:19] Rex Cronon: darien*
[12:19] Darien Caldwell: in every product I sell ol
[12:19] Darien Caldwell: if it wasnt' working, i'd have a ton of errors hitting my email right now
[12:19] Rex Cronon: maybe that is not working too;)
[12:20] Darien Caldwell: as it is, I get maybe on error a week
[12:20] MB Robonaught: if that is true darian why am I getting client side error messages?
[12:20] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:20] Darien Caldwell: well MB, I don't know what your specific application is
[12:20] MB Robonaught: http_response
[12:20] Darien Caldwell: if you're loading a custom AJAX framework into the Viewer's Browser, there's a lot that can go wrong with that
[12:21] MB Robonaught: nothing fancy and the error says it can't find it
[12:21] Darien Caldwell: i do the same, and i find it varies machine to machine
[12:21] MB Robonaught: and it worked great for several months until the hardware upgrades
[12:21] Simon Linden: is that a DNS site-not-found or 404 page not found?
[12:21] Darien Caldwell: majority of people it works fine. but for some it fails and even after having them check their firewalls, etc, can find no solution
[12:21] MB Robonaught: if (typeof(Sys) === 'undefined') throw new Error('ASP.NET Ajax client-side framework failed to load.');
[12:22] Darien Caldwell: yeah that error means little without context
[12:22] Darien Caldwell: where is that in your code?
[12:22] Darien Caldwell: is it on the server side, or the client side?
[12:22] MB Robonaught: it is in the returned source
[12:22] MB Robonaught: that is read by media
[12:22] MB Robonaught: and only shows on media and not a browser
[12:23] Darien Caldwell: what you receive from the server?
[12:23] MB Robonaught: I get everything but the value
[12:23] Darien Caldwell: how are you setting this "Sys" value?
[12:23] Darien Caldwell: url variable, or header variable
[12:24] MB Robonaught: the media sent it back to my page
[12:24] MB Robonaught: the output line should read <input name="txtOfficials" type="text" value="MB Robonaught-Vladi Hazelnut-Lotus Setzer-Gaberiel Foulsbane-Sorcie naxos-jeanettedjennet Resident-Killian Sandalwood" id="txtOfficials" />
[12:24] MB Robonaught: the media reads the same line as <input name="txtOfficials" type="text" id="txtOfficials" />
[12:25] MB Robonaught: drops the value right out of it
[12:25] Jenna Felton: you can probably compare the ISP you are both using or who is offering the server, probably there is really a blocking that hits Rex and MB and not Darien, when at the client side all is ok
[12:25] Darien Caldwell: i'd have to look at your code to figure it out. But at any rate, that would be a viewer issue.
[12:25] Darien Caldwell: clientside
[12:26] Darien Caldwell: what Rex is experiencing would seem to be server side, so completely different
[12:26] MB Robonaught: trust me it's not being blocked :p
[12:26] Darien Caldwell: no it's not being blocked
[12:26] Jenna Felton: ok
[12:26] Darien Caldwell: your Javascript is failing
[12:26] Jenna Felton: was just an idea
[12:26] Simon Linden: so this seems to be totally between your servers and the SL client, right?
[12:26] Rex Cronon: i can contact my server using a web browser without problem
[12:26] Rex Cronon: and it seems i can contact it from here also
[12:26] MB Robonaught: who is that question directed at simon?
[12:26] Darien Caldwell: there should be no difference between the media browser and the regular SL web browser
[12:27] Darien Caldwell: so not sure why it would work in one and not the other. But maybe Oz knows of some specific difference
[12:27] Rex Cronon: did any of the llxor functions change?
[12:27] Simon Linden: anyone that can answer ... I understand some things are not working right. I'm just trying to rule out the SL servers
[12:28] Darien Caldwell: Rex's issue sounds like a failure between LL's server and his server
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: heh, llXor wereallymeanitthistime() should have been fixed a while back
[12:28] MB Robonaught: Simon it acts just like the service was turned off for certain functions
[12:28] Darien Caldwell: MB's issue is a failure between her client browser and her server
[12:28] Darien Caldwell: LL's server isn't touched in that instance
[12:28] MB Robonaught: mine it is only on the media and not any form of browser outside SL
[12:28] Simon Linden: ok, got it
[12:29] Rex Cronon: last week worked fine. from both main and beta grid. but something changed somewhere
[12:29] MB Robonaught: the client is kicking back an error to my page
[12:30] Simon Linden: ok ... well, that kind of change over the two grids as well as all server channels means whatever it is, it wasn't one of the usual server updates
[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: Bottleneck somewhere?
[12:31] getWebFile: Touched.
[12:31] MB Robonaught: can the services for asp.net be checked?
[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: i've had crazy issues with avatar being ghosted half the time this weekend. Something between europe and US internets hasn't been right.
[12:32] Simon Linden: possibly, Lex, but I haven't heard of any changes to our network structure
[12:32] Lexbot Sinister: I spend half a day trying to pinpoint the issue, and conclusion was it wasn't at your end, nor mine.
[12:33] Hexapoda: Things derez fast for me and when you run around a sim and object rez again it is often something fail to load
[12:33] Darien Caldwell: i just checked one of my servers: http://home.comcast.net/~volfin/20140902193309522.jpeg
[12:33] Darien Caldwell: as you can see, hundreds of requests in the last 24 hours, no failures
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: How far down the priority pole is MAINT-3889? heh
[12:34] Darien Caldwell: those for the DNS are all directly from within SL
[12:34] CmdrCupcake (sovereign.engineer): What's MAINT-3889
[12:34] Rex Cronon: about 6 hours ago i checked this at rausch and it worked.now it doesn't:(
[12:34] Darien Caldwell: the js/css is media based
[12:34] Rex Cronon: maybe is just this sim?
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: MAINT-3889 is a function to return the byte count of a string
[12:35] Simon Linden: It's moderately deep, Lucy ... that's one that seems pretty straigth forward and shouldn't be difficult or risky
[12:35] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[12:35] Darien Caldwell: can't you just use llGetStrLength()
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: all string function input and return is byte capped. It would be great to have a means the server already uses to get said byte count.
[12:36] Darien Caldwell: or whatever ll names it
[12:36] Darien Caldwell: llStringLength
[12:36] Martinrj Fayray: that one counts characters, not bytes, Darien
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: same thing?
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: you have to use a UDF to count bytes of chars that can be 1 - 4 bytes
[12:37] Martinrj Fayray: sadly no
[12:37] Simon Linden: no, not with non-roman text
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: ah, I see
[12:37] Jenna Felton: for special charracters it is not the same :)
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: non-ANSI chars can have 1 - 4 bytes
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: i stay away from UTF in my scripts
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: all function input and output are byte limtied, not char
[12:37] Simon Linden: our text functions support utf-8 for international text, so it's 1-4 bytes as Lucy just said
[12:38] Darien Caldwell: Legacy names FTW ;p
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: we're at a usage level today where it isn't unommon for multilanguage chars to be inputted and outted, having that function seems long overdue
[12:38] Darien Caldwell: yeah i can see there's a need for that
[12:39] Martinrj Fayray: there's always some user-input which can make scripts crash, e.g. if you output the user-input in a dialog in some way
[12:39] Darien Caldwell: now that you outline it
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: the server already does it for all comm, it shouldn't be hard to tie a function into that
[12:40] Darien Caldwell: that's at least one advantage (of a few) for using LSO
[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: "shouldn't be hard" is the one phrase that devs love to hear most, from their customers
[12:40] Rex Cronon: sadlly right now my rl has a "little" chaos so i can't spend time debuging this:(
[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: should not be hard!
[12:40] Darien Caldwell: strings use less space
[12:40] Darien Caldwell: since UTF-8 isn't supported
[12:41] Darien Caldwell: or is it UTF-16
[12:41] Darien Caldwell: i never get that straight
[12:41] Simon Linden: This one is genuinely simple ... our own code has to handle the differences between considering character position and bytes. It really is a matter of resources and setting priorities. This will be nice to have, but would it go in front of a crash fix? That's the kind of choice we have to make
[12:41] Darien Caldwell: it's UTF-16. that's what Mono uses
[12:42] Darien Caldwell: so LSO is UTF-8
[12:42] Darien Caldwell: i'll remember that one day hehe
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: Just hoping on some nice shineys before SL2, lol
[12:42] Darien Caldwell: i'd think all the crashes should be ironed out by now. SL has never been more stable
[12:43] Oz Linden: we've got plenty of shinys in the pipeline
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: if LL monitored WT for crash modes, they'd have all the fixes released already, lol
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: still waiting on sim bombing to be fixed
[12:43] Darien Caldwell: hehe
[12:44] Rex Cronon: and rausch:)
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: I mean, the sever shouldn't even allow 10000 nc's or textures per prim let alone a user,....
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: scripts were capped, but nothing else afaik
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: i remember when i ran an RP area, and we lived with a crash every hour
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: that was how SL used to be lol
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: you just expected it
[12:44] Simon Linden: ah, those were the days ;)
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: now if I see a crash in 6 months, I'm genuinely surprised
[12:45] Rex Cronon: u crashed an rp sim? how come? isn't rp mostly talking?
[12:45] Darien Caldwell: well, was before Havok 4. just sitting down on a prim could crash a sim lol
[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: Simon is there any chance that llSetTorque will ever work on avatars?
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: rp can also mean *CS usage
[12:45] Darien Caldwell: Havok 4 brought a lot of stability
[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: it's 2014 and there is still no way to make an avatar face a specific direction with LSL
[12:45] Darien Caldwell: was happy to help Sidewinder iron that baby out
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: you can use tp functions to turn yourself
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: which is lame, yes
[12:46] Darien Caldwell: now that's a workaround ;)
[12:46] Martinrj Fayray: won't work for a hug-attachment (MartinRJ is asking for permission to teleport you to location???)
[12:46] Simon Linden: Martin - I doubt we would change llSetTorque's behavior, since that would probably break other things
[12:47] Rex Cronon: if u have your ave sit u can have it face any direction:)
[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: new function time - SetAvatarRotation()
[12:47] Darien Caldwell: RLV has a way to turn an avatar lol
[12:47] Simon Linden: but the ability to set an AV's direction makes sense, if we could work out the possible abuse and all that
[12:47] Darien Caldwell: client side but works
[12:47] Darien Caldwell: i guess it taps into the movement system
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: probably the autopilot sys
[12:48] Darien Caldwell: yeah
[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: well you could use llsettorque the way llsetforce works for attachments
[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: since llsettorque right now does nothing on attached objects
[12:49] Jenna Felton: probably needs than a new runtime permission SPIN_AGENT or so
[12:49] Simon Linden: right, I'm just wondering how many attachments and huds out there now are calling llSetTorque() and if behavior changed, you start spinning around
[12:49] Jenna Felton: than the abuse should be low
[12:49] Martinrj Fayray: hrm
[12:50] Darien Caldwell: i don't know why they would if it does nothing currently
[12:50] Martinrj Fayray: llSetTorque_thistimewemeanit?
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: there are soem move locks that use it
[12:50] Darien Caldwell: so it must do something
[12:50] Rex Cronon: u know. if put an ave between two planks of wood and move them in opposite directions then the ave should rotate:)
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: may need a standalone feature after all, heh
[12:51] Rex Cronon: u make a burrito:)
[12:51] Darien Caldwell: i've never understood why avatars weren't treated like prims to begin with
[12:51] Darien Caldwell: linking an attachment should make the avatar the root
[12:51] Darien Caldwell: and you should be able to put scripts in your root-body
[12:52] Darien Caldwell: and send link messages through the linkset
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: idk why we don't have sit on attachment permissions
[12:52] Simon Linden: Please don't do that to AVs, Rex :P
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: even the Simms has it
[12:52] Darien Caldwell: imagine if you could network attachments through your body linkset
[12:52] Darien Caldwell: that would be far surperior than chat based systems
[12:52] Rex Cronon: imagine putting a resize script inside the eyes of an ave:)
[12:52] MB Robonaught: LOL
[12:52] Simon Linden: yeah Darien - I would love to fiddle with the scripting model. I wish SL had land-based scripts, so you might get events when AVs enter or leave
[12:53] MB Robonaught: @@
[12:53] Darien Caldwell: that's another cool idea
[12:54] Rex Cronon: i think we already have that simon. u use a megaprim(256x256x4094)
[12:54] Darien Caldwell: lol
[12:54] Seewo (siwo): I would love attachments acting like a linkset.... and therefore ability to use one script to control all worn attachments :)
[12:54] Simon Linden: haha ... and then you drive the physics engine crazy :P
[12:54] Jenna Felton: i also needed once an ability to detect parcel change
[12:54] Jenna Felton: not just region change
[12:55] Rex Cronon: wouldn't be also cool if u could add scripts to your clothes? now more 1001 items of each color for sell on the mp:)
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, the VD megaprim thing is outdate at teh advent of llGetAgentList()
[12:55] Rex Cronon: no more*
[12:55] Seewo (siwo): don't forget there are also those griefy mega prims ~ 65000x65000x65000 :)
[12:56] Jenna Felton: wow
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: Rex, texture layer-based clothes are so 2006.
[12:56] Rex Cronon: right lucy. i am using that in some of my scripts:)
[12:56] Darien Caldwell: yeah i've seen those get rezzed on the mainland lol
[12:56] MB Robonaught: forgive for asking....will the web issue be looked into?
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: hopefully SL2 will give land owners some resource control https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3854
[12:56] Darien Caldwell: you can't see it but everything acts strange
[12:56] Darien Caldwell: because you're inside it
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Nowadays, there are rigged mesh clothes whose colours and materials are controlled by HUD, and there are also appliers for rigged mesh avatar bodies.
[12:57] Rex Cronon: mona. if u add scripts to them that would make them so 2014;)
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Add scripts to what, Rex? Textures?
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Textures are .tga files.
[12:57] Rex Cronon: clothes
[12:58] Darien Caldwell: you can put scripts in some clothes
[12:58] Darien Caldwell: like that shirt ;p
[12:58] Rex Cronon: mesh ones darien?
[12:58] Darien Caldwell: yep
[12:58] Kallista Destiny: Not in system layer clothing.
[12:59] Darien Caldwell: not sure why you'd want to put a script in a system layer
[12:59] Darien Caldwell: what would be the purpose?
[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: To change its colour, Darien. But how can you put a script in a .tga or a .jpg file?
[12:59] Darien Caldwell: you can't
[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: That's what I'm saying...
[12:59] Kallista Destiny: For the same reason you put script in anything. To manipulate it
[13:00] Nalates Urriah: Gotta go. Bye all.
[13:00] Rex Cronon: u associate a scrip to each layer?
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: yeah just from what i've seen, most system clothes dont' work from coloring ayway
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: anyway
[13:00] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Oz.
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: they are a texture and not tintable
[13:00] Rex Cronon: tc nal
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: i think out of all my 50,000 items I have one tintable piece of system clothing lol
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: it was a real novelty
[13:01] Simon Linden: I also need to go -- thanks everyone for coming today
[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[13:01] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:01] Darien Caldwell: thanks :)
[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Simon.
Simulator_User_Group
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