Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-23

13:01 	Oz Linden  	So.... pretty short agenda this week....
  	  	first... the hackathon....
  	  	It was generally successful, but not a perfect result (no surprise there)
13:02 	  	Many dependencies now build with autobuild and with vs2010
  	  	those repos are almost all public, so you can experiment if you like
  	draconis.neurocam  	Any specifics on which currently fail?
  	Oz Linden  	there are some more to do, and those are being worked on
13:03 	  	I'm going to put a doc up about that at some point, but I don't trust the data I have enough to do it now
  	draconis.neurocam  	nods
  	Oz Linden  	we also have not tested all of those in a viewer built in TeamCity yet
13:04 	  	there are some glitches in TC builds w/ 2010 that are being sorted out
  	  	it looks as though we should be able to merge autobuild by early next week at the latest, but without the 2010 changes
13:05 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Are 64bit builds supposed to work with the OpenSourceStandAloneRelWithDebInfo configuration or will that need further work?
  	Oz Linden  	we have not attempted them
13:06 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	wouldnt mind 64bbit win build capibility :P
  	Oz Linden  	I think we're probably a couple of weeks from being able to throw the switch to 2010, but that's purely a guess
13:07 	draconis.neurocam  	still a guess that has some good connotations
  	Oz Linden  	there's a lot of regression testing to do - many of the dependent libs were upgraded to newer versions in the process
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	oh good
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	meh, got disconnected
  	Oz Linden  	the best news, I think, is that the snowball is far enough down the hill and big enough that no one will try to stop it now :-)
13:08 	draconis.neurocam  	i agree, from what i hear
  	Oz Linden  	but there remain a fair number of loose ends to tie up, and we'll resist moving to v-d until they are done
13:09 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	(can someone IM me what was said since "[13:05] Oz Linden: we have not attempted them"? Thx.)
  	Oz Linden  	You can follow the vs2010 work in jenn_linden/viewer-vs2010
  	  	and integration of that with viewer-autobuild and viewer-development both in oz_linden/viewer-autobuild2010
  	Jonathan  	Are you going to merge in the work NickyP has been doing?
13:10 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	(Thx, Ima)
  	Oz Linden  	I'm testing some of Nicky s fixes now... they don't work quite as well for me as advertized, but it's clear he's found the central issue
13:11 	  	So.... at least Very Long Lasting Glory for NickyP !
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	㋡
  	Ima Mechanique  	I managed a working build too. Did it a bit differently to Nicky
13:12 	Oz Linden  	hints are welcome (in email or the jira rather than chat)
  	Ima Mechanique  	okay
  	Jonathan  	I messed up my HD trying to figure out what parts of the v7 sdk were needed and had to recover from a backup
  	Oz Linden  	Oh... one other bit of unrelated good news... I got the Macs for the open dev build farm ordered
13:13 	Jonathan  	Are the other systems already on order/in place? (hurrah!)
  	Oz Linden  	the first of a number of annoying logistical hurdles, but it's spending money and that's momentum!
  	Tonya Souther  	yay Macs!
  	Oz Linden  	the rest of the systems will be EC2, so I don't have to buy them
13:15 	  	I ordered Minis - the cpus are pretty close to what we have in the Pros internally (because the pros are not as new), and they have more RAM, so I think we'll get very good performance
  	Tonya Souther  	Don't sell the Mini short. not expandable, but perfect for what you're doing. If I had money, I'd buy one for our build engine.
13:16 	Oz Linden  	Yes, I think they'll do pretty nicely
  	  	Next topic.... STANDALONE
13:17 	  	do we think that we're making progress?
  	Ima Mechanique  	I think so, the discussion has been good
13:18 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Lot's of suggestions and quite some considerations which might be good or not.
  	Oz Linden  	Be warned... once the discussion has converged, the next step will be me asking for a volunteer to actually do the change
13:19 	  	waits for everyone to TP out
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	will be over here...
  	Jessica Lyon  	I lol'd
  	Jonathan  	I think Boroondas raised his hand
  	Oz Linden  	needs a "raise hand" gesture....
13:20 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Hu? What? Raise hand? I just ansered an IM that came in ....
13:21 	Jonathan  	Oz, there is a #3 on the agenda now
  	Oz Linden  	ok, well, so far I agree that the list discussion has been fruitful, so I'm not inclined to kill it off and close the issue. Let's move on
  	  	Where there any interesting results from that code analysis tool that was also used to analyzed the server source?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Oh, about volunteers ... well, I don't have much time right now, but if a new name is decided upon, I might commit to doing the change somewhen later.
13:22 	Oz Linden  	We've run both the viewer and simulator through Coverity
  	Jonathan  	Did it find anything of interest in the viewer you can mention?
13:23 	Latif Khalifa  	Coverity results need careful reading, the number of false positive problems it "discovers" is substantial.
  	Oz Linden  	Like any tool, it produces some gems mixed in with a lot of gravel
  	  	some of the changes Bao just checked in (leak fixes) were from that, I think
  	Jonathan  	Would it help to have OS people look over that report?
13:24 	Oz Linden  	Hmmm.... that's a thought.... don't know if our license would allow that..... will have to look into it.
  	  	Tofu used to look at them pretty frequently
13:25 	Jonathan  	It might also help the TPV people, so they could look at their own code
  	Jessica Lyon  	^
  	Oz Linden  	I'm pretty sure there's no way we can run it against code other than ours
13:26 	Jonathan  	No, but since the bases are close seeing your report might be of help
  	Oz Linden  	the license is quite expensive
  	  	maybe
13:28 	  	If there are devs looking for problems, I've got some...
  	draconis.neurocam  	might be of some use to say them, words carry
13:29 	Oz Linden  	the linux build needs help with building the c-ares lib into it correctly to make name resolution non-blocking
  	  	(I forget the issue #)
13:30 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	and webkit...
  	Oz Linden  	that's probably a flag or three that needs setting in the various builds
13:32 	  	there was something else that came up this morning....
  	  	rumages in log....
13:34 	  	can't find it
  	  	any other topics?
13:35 	  	Does this mean I get to knock off early and call car dealers?
13:36 	Jessica Lyon  	lol
  	Oz Linden  	that's not that much fun....
  	Jonathan  	Skateboard snowed in?
  	Ima Mechanique  	no Boroondas is typing
  	Oz Linden  	very much so, I'm afraid
  	Tonya Souther  	I thought nobody owned cars in Boston.
  	Twisted Laws  	I wonder how all these things fit into the goals of the Snowstorm project as written in the wiki... We spend an awful lot of time going over things that work for devs and changing them, but not so much on making the viewer better.
13:37 	Oz Linden  	Well, my personal mission lately is to reduce the barriers to producing contributions
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	I can't compile tests anymore ... unless for revisions before 1013caf84c2e (which is quite old, so I guess I must have compiled newer versions, before ... dunno what about my system might have changed, or whether it's an issue that doesn't always show on incremental builds.)
  	Oz Linden  	like antiquated tools and poor integration support
  	  	I don't do incremental builds much
  	Twisted Laws  	changing things like STANDALONE seem contrary to that tho?
13:38 	Oz Linden  	well, I didn't bring that one up... but it is confusing...
  	Latif Khalifa  	autobuild seems to be more difficult to get running
  	  	so at least in that respect the barrier is higher
13:39 	Twisted Laws  	autobuild seems to lock us into a specific configuration and makes it very difficult for anyone to change
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	well, autobuild is hardly out of alpha
  	Ima Mechanique  	but that's just teething problems
  	Oz Linden  	The Snowstorm team has lost some people lately, and that's had some impact on how fast we can review and accept changes
  	  	I think that it's not easy for those of you who have been building viewers for a while to appreciate what a pain it is to get started
13:40 	Twisted Laws  	if its hardly out of alpha, why are we talking of merging it into viewer-developement next week?
  	Oz Linden  	and the old method of tracking dependencies was, well, .... not good
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	are we?
  	Oz Linden  	probably, yes
  	Jonathan  	Oz said 2-3 weeks earlier
  	Oz Linden  	no... that was vs2010
13:41 	  	and was a guess ... could be either more or less
  	Twisted Laws  	and you said, we'd put the 2005 version in...
  	Latif Khalifa  	Oz, if it took you a week to compile your first viewer, it would probably take two to get autobuild going
  	Jonathan  	I assumed both would come at once
  	Twisted Laws  	why not wait till its working on 2010?
  	Oz Linden  	no, I don't think so Latif
  	  	in fact, I know that our CEO did it in one afternoon
13:42 	Latif Khalifa  	i did it with the old system too
  	  	but a fair test would be for you to do it ;)
  	Ima Mechanique  	Latif, it took me over a month to build my first viewer, and less than a week to do so with autobuild
  	Tonya Souther  	I've held off on autobuild mainly to see how it works when it's ready for primetime with no preconceptions.
  	Oz Linden  	whether or not we are going to move to autobuild is not negotiable
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	I still haven't built succesfully with autobuild :-\
13:43 	  	But then, with 64bit, my setup might be a bit special.
  	Latif Khalifa  	You said your personal goal was to reduce the barriers. I feel autobuild increases them is all, not negotiating anythig lol
  	draconis.neurocam  	i think once linden lab is happy with autobuild enough to use teamcity on it, and do it as a full release, and theres enough documentation, it wont be hard
  	Oz Linden  	but you're trying to build on a platform that we don't have prebuilds for, right?
13:44 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	yes, unless that has changed recently?
  	Oz Linden  	no, it has not (and won't)
13:45 	  	autobuild has some areas where it could use improvement... and it's open source, so if they really bug you....
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Btw., shouldn't autobuild allow me to produce the equivalent of prebuilts locally? I thought that was one of the goals.
  	Twisted Laws  	Is it possible to post the instructions given to the CEO that allowed him to build a viewer in a day?
13:46 	Jonathan  	I bet he was not using an Express compiler :)
  	Oz Linden  	it should, B, but at the moment you have to do them 'manually'.... check out all the projects and build each one
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	ah
  	  	ok
  	Oz Linden  	and configure each to import the results from the others
  	Thickbrick Sleaford  	that will be automated at some point?
  	Oz Linden  	you don't need to do the actual installs from any of them
13:47 	  	ideally, but it's not done now
  	Ima Mechanique  	/
  	Oz Linden  	don't know what priority that will get
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	"and configure each to import the results from the others" <<-- are there instructions on how to do that?
  	Ima Mechanique  	oz is that the 3p-* projects?
  	Oz Linden  	autobuild edit installable ...
13:48 	  	yes, the 3p-* projects are all the open dependencies, and all are being set up with autobuild
  	Ima Mechanique  	I couoldn't get them to build with Express. Don't remember why
  	Oz Linden  	so you won't have to learn how to build each one with its own tooling.. .. just autobuild
  	  	we have not been building with Express, and that will have to be sorted out
13:49 	  	see the notes in open-1
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1
OPEN-1 autobuild requires custom configurations for use with Visual Studio Express
13:50 	Twisted Laws  	i'm not buildng with express once we're on 2010... btw, NickyP's instructions did work for me on 2010 pro
  	Oz Linden  	creating a good abstraction for express vs other editions is tbd, and will probably have to come from open source, so get out your python and polish it up
  	Latif Khalifa  	lol
  	  	now that's a quote
  	Tonya Souther  	and if you don't know Python, you should learn it anyway.
  	Ima Mechanique  	2010 should make that much easier, they use the same builder now
  	Oz Linden  	Lindens have Pro, so don't wait for us to figure it out
13:51 	  	that's good news Ima
  	Ima Mechanique  	it's what NickyP and others have been doing over the weekend ;-)
13:52 	  	I built with autobuild on 2010 express, as did NickyP
  	  	BTW there's still and SCP address in aitobuild .xml
  	Oz Linden  	signs
13:53 	  	I'll hunt it down...
  	Ima Mechanique  	hope that's a typo, I don't want to know what the sign is otherwise
  	Latif Khalifa  	isn't it supposed to have those for stuff like kdu and havok?
  	Ima Mechanique  	google-breakpad for windows
13:54 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	"it"?
13:55 	Oz Linden  	the google-breakpad should be http
  	  	I'll "remind" whoever checked that in
  	Latif Khalifa  	hey robin :)
  	Robin Cornelius  	Hi
  	Ima Mechanique  	It is for darwin and linux ;-)
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	hi RC
13:56 	Ima Mechanique  	hi Robin
13:57 	Oz Linden  	well, I'm going to wrap up work and go call car salesmen.... fun fun :-(
  	Ima Mechanique  	gl with that
  	Oz Linden  	see everyone on Monday, if not sooner....
  	Twisted Laws  	Is it possible to post the instructions given to the CEO that allowed him to build a viewer in a day?
  	Office Orb  	End transcription
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	tc
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	tc oz