Open Source Meeting/2008-11-20

== Agenda ==
* items added by --oobscure 15:33, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
** Pages about compiling the viewer on the official wiki still need love ( = almost total rewriting). What's their status?
** Is the crash-report tool currently working on Linux? if yes - in which releases? all of them?
** Is it OK to add branches description draft below the current content at Source_branches ?
** Is really useful to LL (as stated on the wiki) when residents download sources from SVN, try to build them and report errors? is the wiki documentation about this up-to-date and complete enough? Which branches are/will be the most useful ones to test? 
** Office hours should be announced inworld to interested residents. Which announce method is best? How to provide real-time in-world notifications from Google calendars? Could -at least- Linden employees announce office hours a couple of minutes before starting in the proper group chat?
** Is it ok to add a reference to these Office Hours the Open Source Participating page ?
** Is it ok to add a reference to Nightly Builds / Battery Street Irregulars project and mailing list to Downloading_test_builds page?
* Khyota
** New ndof patches in trunk will cause problems in standalone builds. VWR-10579 Should have a look at this.
== Transcript ==
* [13:58] Carjay McGinnis: greetings
* [13:59] Khyota Wulluf: laughs hi
* [13:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: hello everybody
* [13:59] Opensource Obscure: ciao !
* [13:59] Rob Linden: hiya folks!
* [14:00] Carjay McGinnis: Hi Rob
* [14:00] Squirrel Wood: Cake!
* [14:00] Squirrel Wood: And stuff
* [14:00] Khyota Wulluf: :D
* [14:01] Kerry's Nose: Squirrel Wood Clicked.
* [14:01] CG Linden: Hi Ellllllllllla :)
* [14:01] Kerry's Nose: Opensource Obscure Clicked.
* [14:01] Ellla McMahon: hello everyone :))
* [14:01] Squirrel Wood: Hellos!
* [14:02] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
* [14:02] Opensource Obscure: i added a bunch of ideas to the agenda, i'm not sure everything is appropriate for this office hour, but i didn't find a more proper place
* [14:02] Carjay McGinnis: ah, CG, the man himself
* [14:03] Opensource Obscure: we could save them for an informal discussion later between residents, in case
* [14:03] Khyota Wulluf: i put something in too
* [14:03] Rob Linden: I'll be posting a transcript later today on wiki.secondlife.com, so keep that in mind as you type
* [14:03] Grid Crash: Protection Box: , you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [14:03] Rob Linden: well, let's start going down the list:
* [14:03] Rob Linden: First item: "Pages about compiling the viewer on the official wiki still need love ( = almost total rewriting). What's their status? "
* [14:04] Rob Linden: I've got that on my TODO list for the near term. I may not get to it this week, but I'm definitely planning more work in that area myself
* [14:04] Opensource Obscure: great! : )
* [14:04] CG Linden: I updated http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Michelle2_Zenovka/cmake
* [14:05] Rob Linden: I'ld like to get some of Michelle2's work merged in with the mainline build instructions
* [14:05] CG Linden: should now work as described for all platforms
* [14:05] Soft Linden: I'd actually like to float an unconventional proposal here...
* [14:05] Khyota Wulluf: was thinking about doing a seperate linux standalone guide
* [14:05] Rob Linden: Soft: float away :)
* [14:05] Soft Linden: A big part of the problem with the build instructions is that people edit them to be all things to all versions...
* [14:06] Soft Linden: ...and then you also get some people who unilaterally decide to do things like deprecating VS2003 back when VS2003 was our -only- supported Windows compiler.
* [14:06] Soft Linden: What do people think about keeping the build instructions in the source tree instead of in the wiki, so they get versioned and reviewed just like source patches?
* [14:07] Soft Linden: We could just drop these in the top level doc directory.
* [14:07] Carjay McGinnis: can that be linked to a web page?
* [14:07] Soft Linden: The web page could tell you where to look, but it would take manual updating to link to the appropriate place in each branch.
* [14:07] Carjay McGinnis: not sure it does much for keeping it up to date though, hm
* [14:07] Rob Linden: hrm....the problem is that community created instructions tend to be more accurate and timely (at least, historically for us)
* [14:08] Khyota Wulluf: and speclialized
* [14:08] Rob Linden: it's a hard thing to agree on a framework for shared editing, but it seems like a worthy thing to figure out
* [14:08] Soft Linden: Fair enough.
* [14:08] Squirrel Wood: limit who can edit that stuff ?
* [14:09] Squirrel Wood: or require manual approval of changes ?
* [14:09] Soft Linden: Well, or just agree that we'll have -one- page. We can take m2's page and use that as the base for the new build page, declare everything else obsolete.
* [14:09] Kerry Giha: I like the require approval of change idea.
* [14:09] Soft Linden: It's easier to watch and keep one page sane than 10 shard pages.
* [14:09] Rob Linden: Squirrel...honestly, I don't *think* we need to go that far
* [14:09] Opensource Obscure: Or we could keep the first wiki page section limited to Lindens-editing and put residents-tips below
* [14:09] Rob Linden: Soft: agreed
* [14:10] Soft Linden: Let's do that, then. On sldev, let's ask people to verify that 1.21 and beyond build well with M2's instructions on all three platforms, and then stamp a big DEAD label on all the existing stuff after moing M2's to be the main page.
* [14:10] Rob Linden: I think we can enforce some editing rules by informal agreement than hard limits on the wiki, though I've got some ideas for the latter
* [14:10] Rob Linden: Soft: one concern....
* [14:10] Rob Linden: I think we need to merge M2's instructions; I don't think they work as is as a base
* [14:11] Opensource Obscure: informal agreements + people watching the pages for changes = i think it can work
* [14:11] Soft Linden: Sure. That's why I'd want people to actually try M2's instructions on each platform before we move it out of the user: space.
* [14:12] Rob Linden: Soft: there's still a lot of useful infromaton on the existing pages that aren't on M2's page
* [14:13] Soft Linden: Still - if we wait for someone to get around to merging all that by hand - that hasn't happened in a couple months of it being needed. I think we'd spur people into action by cutting over sooner.
* [14:13] Rob Linden: hrm....I really don't want to copy over the top of the information that's there
* [14:14] Soft Linden: There's a LOT of common sense stuff covered on all those other pages. Arguably, things like walking people through dialog by dialog for doing everyday things in Visual Studio is nice, but it also sets a really high bar if we don't replace those instructions with something that works until it's that friendly/comprehensive again.
* [14:14] Rob Linden: looks at the pages again
* [14:15] Soft Linden: Yeah. I'd rather we move those pages somewhere for archival purposes, rather than actually erasing or overwriting.
* [14:15] Rob Linden: whoa....wait
* [14:15] Rob Linden: no moving pages for archival purposes....the archive is the history; that's not the problem
* [14:15] Rob Linden: (and we *really* need to stop doing that sort of thing)
* [14:16] Rob Linden: having "this page is old and useless" show up in google results sucks
* [14:16] Rob Linden: M2's instructions need a lot of work before moving over
* [14:17] Soft Linden: Let's at leat do the first part of this - asking people on sldev to try from-scratch builds using those instructions on each platform.
* [14:18] Rob Linden: that sounds reasonable
* [14:18] Opensource Obscure: i'm a bit lost. however i could help Khyota with a Linux howto maybe
* [14:18] Rob Linden: well, actually, before going there...
* [14:18] Soft Linden: That will at least get some eyes on that page, and maybe motivate a volunteer or two to help pull anything essential from the other maze-o-pages.
* [14:18] Rob Linden: let's actually take a crack at merging the pages, then have a QA swarm on the improved instructions
* [14:18] Rob Linden: this really is on my short list
* [14:19] Opensource Obscure: fine for me.
* [14:19] Rob Linden: if people want to help with the merge, PLEASE DO
* [14:20] Rob Linden: I think the reason why we're in this place is because, rather than fix the existing page, M2 started a new page, and that became the unofficial official page
* [14:20] Soft Linden: If it helps get this done sooner, wouldn't mind setting aside a time to do any parallelizable parts of this live, either.
* [14:20] Rob Linden: sure....let's coordinate on irc.efnet.org #opensl
* [14:21] Rob Linden: when you want to start editing a section, drop a note there that you're doing work
* [14:21] Soft Linden: M2 started the new page because people trying make the old page work with pre-cmake, early cmake, and current cmake was a huge mess. People kept overwriting valid instructions with instructions that only worked on the viewer version they happened to be working with.
* [14:21] Rob Linden: and what the heck, ping me ("llrobla")
* [14:21] Soft Linden: If we're drawing the line on cmake, which is reasonable today, that will help too.
* [14:22] Rob Linden: Soft: yup....don't get me wrong, I understand how we got here, and I love the fact that M2 contributed something really useful
* [14:22] Soft Linden: By the time this is done, 1.21 and 1.22 will be the officially supported viewers, both of which are new era cmake.
* [14:23] Carjay McGinnis: sounds good
* [14:23] Rob Linden: I'm just imploring people to force themselves to work together on this stuff more rather than agreeing to disagree with 20 different "here's how I did it" pages
* [14:23] Opensource Obscure: i think the cmake-only era will simplify that, Rob
* [14:23] Soft Linden: Alright. So plan is to try and create a single unified cmake-only page from the current set of platform-specific many-versioned pages.
* [14:24] Rob Linden: Soft, I don't think that going all-in-one truly makes sense, but I could be wrong
* [14:24] Rob Linden: I think there's potentially two stages:
* [14:24] Soft Linden: With cmake, the majority of the steps are the same among the platforms.
* [14:24] Rob Linden: 1. Environment setup
* [14:24] Rob Linden: (no they aren't)
* [14:25] Soft Linden: Okay, so platform specific environment setup, and then unified build?
* [14:25] Rob Linden: yup
* [14:25] Soft Linden: Yus - that makes good sense!
* [14:26] Carjay McGinnis: well, I had to look it up for Windows after I used it throughly on Linux but mostly for getting the build environment set up
* [14:26] Rob Linden: I think we can merge things like the MSVC 2005 and MSVC 2008 pages, for example
* [14:27] Soft Linden: And arguably, MSVC2003 should end
* [14:27] Soft Linden: kk
* [14:27] Carjay McGinnis: is it still used at LL?
* [14:27] Soft Linden: It is, but that will stop in the near future.
* [14:27] Rob Linden: we should defintely try to consoidate as many of these as we can, but I think the right number of pages is going to be 4-5
* [14:28] Soft Linden: The new memory allocator (I forget which lib we're switching from, an which to) won't be supported by VS2003.
* [14:28] Rob Linden: so, that was item one of about ten on our agenda :)
* [14:28] Soft Linden: Hopefully the others are faster. :)
* [14:28] Carjay McGinnis: ah, ok, well, I guess most people will try the 2008 EE first
* [14:28] Khyota Wulluf: ! which lib?
* [14:28] Rob Linden: item 2: "is the crash-report tool currently working on Linux? if yes - in which releases? all of them? "
* [14:29] Rob Linden: thinks it's working, but doens't know for sure
* [14:29] Soft Linden: Khyota: I don't remember off the top of my head - it was in the meeting agenda like 3 weeks back if you want to look in history
* [14:29] Opensource Obscure: any other linux user here right now?
* [14:29] Khyota Wulluf: yeah
* [14:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: yes
* [14:30] Khyota Wulluf: raises paw
* [14:30] Soft Linden: I can ask on the internal IRC. Has someone seen something that makes it look like it doesn't work, though?
* [14:30] Rob Linden: I'm using it now, and it generally looks like it's working when I've had a crash
* [14:30] Opensource Obscure: yes, i crash and it doesn't appear. but i use many releases and i'm not tracking on which ones yet
* [14:31] Soft Linden: Opensource - verify that you didn't set the preferences for it to never appear
* [14:31] Khyota Wulluf: opensource, are you compliung?
* [14:31] Opensource Obscure: so, it's supposed to work though right?
* [14:31] Soft Linden: It's at the bottom of the "general" preference dialog.
* [14:31] Soft Linden: So far as I know it should be working. It's worth a JIRA if you see evidence that it isn't.
* [14:31] Opensource Obscure: maybe i'm messing the settings. ok resolved. thx
* [14:31] Khyota Wulluf: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9479
* [14:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: it uploads _something_
* [14:31] Rob Linden: item 3: "Is it OK to add branches description draft below the current content at Source_branches ? "
* [14:31] Khyota Wulluf: well it does seem that it runs and logs the crash, but does not submit anything
* [14:32] Carjay McGinnis: what would that be useful for with?
* [14:32] Rob Linden: re: branches description branch. by all means!
* [14:32] Carjay McGinnis: -with
* [14:32] Carjay McGinnis: if it's a self-compiled viewer
* [14:32] Soft Linden: Khyota - have you crashed recently? I can check if you have a recent crash submitted int he customer service tool.
* [14:32] Khyota Wulluf: yes
* [14:32] Soft Linden: Also - was it a crash with a self-built viewer, or with a downloaded one?
* [14:33] Khyota Wulluf: self-built
* [14:33] Soft Linden: Ah. The sefl-built doesn't report to us. Those crashes aren't useful.
* [14:33] Soft Linden: They won't match any of our symbol sets.
* [14:33] Soft Linden: Self-built ones have example.com as the target URL, so they wouldn't actually go anywhere.
* [14:33] Khyota Wulluf: i may have some offical ones too
* [14:33] Opensource Obscure: soft, does that mean VWR-9479 should be resolved as wont'finish ?
* [14:33] Rob Linden: looks
* [14:34] Khyota Wulluf: linux crash logger should not be built maybe?
* [14:34] Soft Linden: OO - not really. There are some people making their own viewers who set up the crash reporter to report to them, not us.
* [14:34] Opensource Obscure: oh right!
* [14:34] Soft Linden: I know Dale's was doing that, for example.
* [14:34] Khyota Wulluf: maybe make it an opitional feature then
* [14:34] Soft Linden: I think Henri's might, too.
* [14:35] Rob Linden: Khyota: yes, that sounds right
* [14:35] Khyota Wulluf: add a cmake flag :)
* [14:35] Soft Linden: On the branches draft - yus. I'll change the in-tree doc to point to that as well. Drop me a note after adding it?
* [14:35] Rob Linden: Khyota: wanna file a separate issue for that?
* [14:36] Soft Linden: Rob++
* [14:36] Rob Linden: (and submit a patch) :)
* [14:36] Khyota Wulluf: ill file an issue
* [14:36] Opensource Obscure: soft: ok
* [14:36] Khyota Wulluf: i dont have the skill to patch it by myself though
* [14:37] Soft Linden: Or ask for help on a patch on sldev if you're not cmake-comfortable enough. With any build configuration we don't use internally, it's very unlikely the cmake team will find enough free time to add those things on their own.
* [14:37] Soft Linden: But they'll gladly review and import contributed work.
* [14:37] Khyota Wulluf: awsome
* [14:38] Rob Linden: are we talked out on crash reporter?
* [14:38] Soft Linden: yus
* [14:38] Opensource Obscure: i'd say yes. * let's skip office hours in-world notifications for now
* [14:38] Khyota Wulluf: ?
* [14:39] Opensource Obscure: it is the next item in agenda
* [14:39] Rob Linden: which item do you want ot skip to?
* [14:39] Soft Linden: Actually, we skipped one that could use some discussion
* [14:39] Squirrel Wood: Ooo! a channel that you can subscribe to in SL that will announce office hours 15 minutes in advance ?
* [14:39] Opensource Obscure: sorry
* [14:39] Soft Linden: Yes, it's helpful when people build and test branches.
* [14:39] Opensource Obscure: let's talk about Is really useful to LL (as stated on the wiki) when residents download sources from SVN, try to build them and report errors? is the wiki documentation about this up-to-date and complete enough? Which branches are/will be the most useful ones to test?
* [14:39] Khyota Wulluf: i had an issue i wanted to bring up before the meeting was over
* [14:39] Soft Linden: The most useful ones to test are the current release candidate (a new one will drop today, btw) and trunk.
* [14:39] Soft Linden: It would be loooooovely to have more eyes on trunk!
* [14:40] Rob Linden: +1 Soft
* [14:40] Opensource Obscure: notes
* [14:40] Khyota Wulluf: still wants an openal patch he can apply to trunk
* [14:40] Carjay McGinnis: I use trunk
* [14:40] Soft Linden: Finding bugs in trunk/ is awesome because you're likely to catch breakage right when it happens. Which means a better chance of our finding the engineer responsible before he's up to his nose in a new batch of work :)
* [14:40] Squirrel Wood: sticks a glod sart to Softs forehead ^^
* [14:40] Soft Linden: Khyota - the openal branch exported right now isn't that far off trunk. You can probably merge that into trunk.
* [14:41] Khyota Wulluf: i tried, there were loads of changes with xui stuff
* [14:41] Soft Linden: Or - that's quite likely to merge into trunk in the near future anyway. Soon, openal will be 100% official for Linux.
* [14:41] Khyota Wulluf: stuff i diddnt understand
* [14:41] Khyota Wulluf: or maybe im doing it wrong?
* [14:41] Carjay McGinnis: ah, that sounds great
* [14:41] Carjay McGinnis: for 1.23?
* [14:41] Khyota Wulluf: my plan was to diff it on the next merge
* [14:42] Soft Linden: Yeah, it should hit in time for 1.23
* [14:42] Carjay McGinnis: cool
* [14:42] Khyota Wulluf: will fmod go away?
* [14:42] Soft Linden: No, both will be supported for now.
* [14:42] Soft Linden: fmod will go away after openal has seen enough successful use to make us comfortable.
* [14:42] Khyota Wulluf: maybe we can multichannel in sometime
* [14:42] Rob Linden: Linux users will be the guinea pigs for the OpenAL cutover, though
* [14:43] Carjay McGinnis: why not drop fmod on linux?
* [14:43] Carjay McGinnis: yeah
* [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: 7.1 surround, tahat will be a new feature request i will file
* [14:43] Carjay McGinnis: more coverage
* [14:43] Soft Linden: 7.1 = totally immersive Mario Cube experience.
* [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: fmod is practicly useless on linux
* [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: and it cause problems with voiec
* [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: voice
* [14:43] Khyota Wulluf: i have voice working fine with openal
* [14:43] Soft Linden: Or I guess turtle and raep are more in vogue at present.
* [14:44] Soft Linden: Well, the dirty secret is that vivox has been using openal all along.
* [14:44] Squirrel Wood: It varies Soft
* [14:44] Soft Linden: On all three platforms, even.
* [14:44] Khyota Wulluf: exactly
* [14:44] Squirrel Wood: but usually ends in big fail for the griefers :p
* [14:44] Saijanai Kuhn: hey all
* [14:44] Rob Linden: hi
* [14:45] Rob Linden: next item: "Is it ok to add a reference to these Office Hours the Open Source Participating page?"
* [14:45] Rob Linden: please do
* [14:45] Soft Linden: Anyway, so - current RC and trunk/ are the most helpful places to be reporting source issues. by far!
* [14:45] Opensource Obscure: ok
* [14:45] Rob Linden: another easy one: "Is it ok to add a reference to Nightly Builds / Battery Street Irregulars project and mailing list to Downloading_test_builds page? "
* [14:45] Rob Linden: once again, please do!
* [14:45] Soft Linden: On the previous issue though - as to the best place to announce?
* [14:46] Rob Linden: yeah, we should have an inworld group
* [14:46] Soft Linden: Actually, is BSI meant to be totally open? I wasn't sure if that was a selected group of participants.
* [14:46] Rob Linden: checks his group list
* [14:46] Soft Linden: You might verify that with Ramzi/Bridie first
* [14:46] Opensource Obscure: yes i'd like get a notify about office hours
* [14:46] Rob Linden: Soft: that kiosk over yonder indicates that yeah, it's fine
* [14:46] Opensource Obscure: BSI: i just asked to get in and i got , as another friend of mine did
* [14:46] Soft Linden: thumbsup!
* [14:47] Soft Linden: For the groups - there are like 20 groups related to JIRA, sldev, viewer hacking, etc. It would be great if someone would compose a list of all those and their membership counts.
* [14:47] Opensource Obscure: office hours notifications: it'd be cool a gateway to the google calendar
* [14:47] Opensource Obscure: i tried to make one and failed # |
* [14:47] Soft Linden: If there are just 2 or 3 groups that stand out that could be made semi-'official,' maybe we could participate/announce meetings more meaningfully in those
* [14:47] Rob Linden: I think they are keeping it "request invite" / "get invite", but I don't think they're making a big secret about the ability to request an invite
* [14:49] Squirrel Wood: as I mentioned before, mayhaps a channel that you can sign up to to receive office hour announcements would be cool
* [14:49] Rob Linden: looks through his group list for a logical group to use
* [14:49] Soft Linden: Right. If there's a best candidate or two, we could post notices. But not to all ~20 related groups.
* [14:49] Squirrel Wood: blue box... xy office hour at ab is about to start. <teleport> <close>
* [14:50] Opensource Obscure: could you make office hours available as XML feeds?
* [14:50] Opensource Obscure: one could then use a LSL feed reader
* [14:50] Soft Linden: There's already a gcal that should have an XML feed.
* [14:50] Rob Linden: there's the "SL Open Source discussion group"
* [14:51] Soft Linden: But it's inclusive of pretty much all office hours, not just open source ones
* [14:51] Soft Linden: That's linked from the first section of http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
* [14:51] Ellla McMahon: re BSI from issue https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7957 Ramzi Linden - 12/Nov/08 04:45 PM " ... If you are interested in joining the group to receive future Public Nightly builds, we welcome you to send us your information as well-- the process is described on the wiki page above!"
* [14:51] Squirrel Wood: the google calendar is incomplete. the wiki page is incomplete and relatively hard to read. (unsorted!)
* [14:52] Thickbrick Sleaford: mediawiki can export RSS, right?
* [14:52] Soft Linden: It can for page change history -- dunno beyond that
* [14:53] Rob Linden: Squirrel, the best thing to do about the GCal being out of date is to file an issue against it
* [14:53] Opensource Obscure: by default, page changes only i think.
* [14:53] Rob Linden: (specific problems)
* [14:53] Soft Linden: The gcal is maintained by a resident, I think
* [14:53] Rob Linden: Soft: isn't there an official Linden calendar somewhere?
* [14:53] Soft Linden: JetZep Zabelin
* [14:54] Soft Linden: Not sure
* [14:54] Saijanai Kuhn: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
* [14:54] Opensource Obscure: there are two different google calendars
* [14:54] Soft Linden: Jet's is the only one I see linked from that page.
* [14:54] Opensource Obscure: i don't have their urls here :|
* [14:54] Soft Linden: Someone may have nuked ours if Jet's was more up to date?
* [14:54] Rob Linden: well, anyway...I want to get to Khoyta's item
* [14:55] Rob Linden: "New ndof patches in trunk will cause problems in standalone builds. VWR-10579 Should have a look at this. "
* [14:55] Saijanai Kuhn: Google has a hard time with AZ time due to the daylight savings issue so I just go with the wiki8 and SLT
* [14:55] Tegg Bode: I guess the problem with overadvertising office hours is you would get too many people bringing up non related issues at the wrong office hours
* [14:55] Khyota Wulluf: :)
* [14:55] Carjay McGinnis: ndof is turned on for all systems by cmake now
* [14:55] Saijanai Kuhn: speaking of which...
* [14:55] Carjay McGinnis: even if it's not installed
* [14:56] Khyota Wulluf: one sec
* [14:56] Khyota Wulluf: ok yeah
* [14:56] Soft Linden: ndof is downloaded automatically for non-standalone, yes?
* [14:56] Khyota Wulluf: yes it is
* [14:57] Khyota Wulluf: actually
* [14:57] Khyota Wulluf: i didnt test but assumed because it was in install.xml
* [14:57] Soft Linden: It's probably reasonable to expect people to fetch it themselves if they're providing their own libs for everything else
* [14:57] Rob Linden: Soft: I think we're the sole source for that library....
* [14:58] Soft Linden: Oh right! We're not using the one provided by Logitech?
* [14:58] CG Linden: fixed missing URL for md5sums in svn commit comment.
* [14:58] Opensource Obscure: the official one ?
* [14:58] Khyota Wulluf: the library was provided by someone else
* [14:58] Soft Linden: ndof was a separate contribution
* [14:58] Soft Linden: Yus
* [14:58] Soft Linden: Yeah, in that case we should really have it in the svn, imho
* [14:58] Khyota Wulluf: and the source is not provided by the viewer
* [14:58] Rob Linden: Logitech provided it to us, but they aren't distributing it independently, I don't believe. we have permission to distribute it in source form, though
* [14:59] Rob Linden: Soft: agreed
* [14:59] Soft Linden: urgh
* [14:59] Soft Linden: Can we push Logitech for permission?
* [14:59] Rob Linden: we have permission
* [14:59] Khyota Wulluf: giggles
* [14:59] Soft Linden: I misread that as "I don't believe we have permission..."
* [14:59] Rob Linden: it's even in JIRA as an attachement
* [14:59] Rob Linden: (which is a lame way of redistributing
* [15:00] Soft Linden: So can we just put it in JIRA as a project?
* [15:00] Soft Linden: I mean svn
* [15:00] Rob Linden: Soft, I think that'd be fine
* [15:00] Rob Linden: k. well, we're out of time
* [15:00] Soft Linden: Does http://svn.secondlife.com/svn/linden/projects make sense, or somewhere else?
* [15:01] Saijanai Kuhn: wanted to throw out a food for thought item
* [15:01] Rob Linden: Soft: that seems reasonable
* [15:01] Khyota Wulluf: thanks!
* [15:01] Rob Linden: for those that want a ping next week, joing the "SL Open Source discussion group"....I'll ping there if I remember
* [15:02] Rob Linden: (and feel free to remind me if I forget, or just send out a note to the group yourself!)
* [15:02] Rob Linden: Saijanai...what did you want to add?
* [15:02] Khyota Wulluf: i cant search
* [15:02] Saijanai Kuhn: Just anupdate on pyogp/OGP
* [15:02] Khyota Wulluf: can someone send me an invite?
* [15:02] Soft Linden: I'm tempted to go ahead and rename that group to not include "group" at the end <.<
* [15:03] Saijanai Kuhn: we've been talking about adding in the current group IM as a service (temp service) in the Agent Domain so we can start exploring issues with it
* [15:03] Soft Linden: Khyota - browse Rob's profile, can join it from there
* [15:03] Khyota Wulluf: why is llmozlib required for group search?
* [15:03] Saijanai Kuhn: and that opens up the Agent Domain to service discovery for custom services., including a defined output connection
* [15:03] Saijanai Kuhn: so.... suggesting people start thinking about what kind of peer to peer services they'd like to see spring up between clients
* [15:04] Rob Linden: k.
* [15:04] Soft Linden: Because the results are returned as html, Khyota
* [15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: things like music and other collaboration software that don't have to worry about simulator lag
* [15:04] Rob Linden: well, I gotta run. thanks everyone
* [15:05] Soft Linden: Most search results have been converted to use html. afaik, events and land are all that will remain as custom formats
* [15:05] Saijanai Kuhn: just a long-term thing to conbtemplate. Goes in with plugin-designs in the client, also
* [15:05] Soft Linden: Actually - take that back - there's been talk about revamping events to be web-based.
* [15:05] Khyota Wulluf: will webkit replace it eventlualy?
* [15:06] Soft Linden: Yes
* [15:06] Khyota Wulluf: awsome thats what im waitin for
* [15:06] Soft Linden: We'll never have webkit and mozlib both in the viewer (I hope!)
* 
Category:Open Source Meeting