Doc Team/2010-07-21

== Transcript ==
[12:59]	:	The region stats look good, and my client FPS is high. What is your client FPS?
[12:59]	:	Whoa, there's a Kate here!
[13:00]	:	hey everyone
[13:00]	:	Advanced > Performance Tools > Statistics Bar
[13:00]	:	Hi Daniel. Welcome back!
[13:00]	:	how do I check client FPS again?
[13:00]	:	hey Jeremy and Kate
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:00]	:	Hey Jeremy!
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:00]	:	nice to be back in SL :D
[13:00]	:	Daniel Hi!
[13:00]	:	been busy :D
[13:00]	:	If you press Ctrl+Shift+1 you can open the STATISTICS bar.
[13:01]	:	Your client FPS is the top # - Basic FPS
[13:01]	:	9.1 FPS here
[13:01]	:	That's pretty low. If you open the lag meter, do you show lag for client or network?
[13:02]	:	(It's also under performance tools)
[13:02]	:	13-ish on my GeForce 9800 GT
[13:02]	:	I run at Ultra settings, though.
[13:02]	:	My FPS is around 30
[13:02]	:	I'm running between 35 and 45 FPS
[13:03]	:	Hi Sirius
[13:03]	:	So, Jeremy Linden, hows everything been lately?
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	Busy busy busy. When I'm not busy, that is.
[13:03]	:	heh
[13:04]	:	We've had some good conversations at this office hour the past few weeks, especially about how the wiki is becoming hard to search due to all the office hours chatlogs.
[13:04]	:	...which is oddly circular.
[13:04]	:	LOL
[13:05]	:	I'm surprised so few people showed up this week!
[13:06]	:	Yeah, normally it gets packed around here. lol
[13:06]	:	This is my first time to a doc office hour. Looking forward to coming as often as possible.
[13:06]	:	We're glad you could join us Sirius!
[13:06]	:	thank you :)
[13:06]	:	how many were here last week? I got mixed as to what day it was (for some reason, Tueday I thought it was Wednesday.... and Wednesday I thought it was Thursday.....) so missed it
[13:07]	:	I think many are still at Nyx Linden office hours
[13:07]	:	Doh! The couches each had a few people on them, plus some of the barrels. How many is that, maybe a few more than 10?
[13:07]	:	what sorts of things are discussed there?
[13:08]	:	I imagine Nyx discusses various appearance and graphics-related issues, but I can't say for sure.
[13:08]	:	Doc Team handles help documentation in the form of Viewer Help, the Knowledge Base, Quick Start Guides and Tips N Tricks :)
[13:08]	:	(for now!)
[13:08]	:	expect will be talking a lot about avatar attachment points
[13:08]	:	/me wonders why everyone seems to be popping in in mid air here today. oO
[13:08]	:	Ooops I should have read your question better Nathan lol.
[13:08]	:	today's Nyx meeting was a bit of a free-for-all. I think he got picked on a little too hard.
[13:09]	:	Content Creation Tips, Tricks, and Techniques - at Nyx Linden office hours
[13:09]	:	hehe
[13:09]	:	hmmm..... are there posted transcripts of the Nyx meetings like there are the DocTeam meetings?
[13:10]	:	not sure. probably. today's was just a gripe-fest, unfortunately.
[13:10]	:	Maybe... We're not required to post the transcripts, but I like to keep a record of what we discuss.
[13:10]	:	The wikis seem to all be different ages and styles. Will you eventually organize them better over time?
[13:10]	:	remembers the old knowlege base
[13:10]	:	Sirius, do you mean just the chatlogs, or everything in the wiki?
[13:10]	:	/me thinks it would be wise for every Linden OH to post trascripts to avoid the FIC argument
[13:11]	:	I mean the wikis I find in Google search. :)
[13:11]	:	Ah, ppl are straggling in. Hello Techwolf
[13:12]	:	Ah. I suppose that depends on who wrote the articles you find. Doc Team (me and Kate, mostly) is responsible for lots of the informational articles in the wiki, but not all of them.
[13:12]	:	Hm. Wrong word, I think. Me is responsible! :-P
[13:12]	:	er...... byebye Tecchwolf. Oo
[13:12]	:	There is a nice collection of photos of previous doc team office hours http://www.flickr.com/groups/docteam/ - always my favourite :D
[13:12]	:	I see. Although I've been in sl since 5/30/09, I'm just learning about the doc aspect.
[13:13]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Doc_team
[13:13]	:	I've been coiming to the DocTeam OH off and on for months
[13:13]	:	Sirius have you taken a look at Viewer Help? (Just click the "?" on a viewer window.)
[13:13]	:	And I can't bloomin' type today. :D
[13:13]	:	Anyway, we're currently in the process of trying to invent a better way to organize the information in the wiki so that it's easier to find what you're looking for. That might mean merging or deleting duplicate and useless articles to help cut down on the "noise".
[13:13]	:	Ok, I'll do that now.
[13:14]	:	I'm interested in your feedback if you want to share, this week or next, after you've had time to check out the Viewer Help articles. :)
[13:15]	:	hey xstorm
[13:15]	:	I'm grateful to have an opportunity to provide feedback. :)
[13:15]	:	hi hi :-)
[13:15]	:	Thank you Sirius :)
[13:16]	:	come sit Daniel :-)
[13:16]	:	haha :D
[13:17]	:	hey do not tell any one but im working on a secret
[13:17]	:	It's not a secret if you tell everyone! :-O
[13:17]	:	xstorm, you look like your typing isat about 300wpm
[13:17]	:	izzit one of those "If I told you what it ws I'd haffta kill you" things? :D
[13:17]	:	xstorm, we post our office hour transcripts on the wiki :)
[13:17]	:	eeeppp spys your all spys
[13:18]	:	What are the types of topics normally discussed at this OH?
[13:18]	:	tips and tricks to better your experience
[13:18]	:	the KB and its errors
[13:18]	:	documentation-team stuff
[13:18]	:	if you have any please feel free to drop it out there
[13:19]	:	We try to talk about Second Life help docs like the wiki and online help, but we get sidetracked sometimes :-)
[13:19]	:	a structured Linden index of approved wiki pages
[13:19]	:	oh that reminds me
[13:19]	:	if an index doesn't exist, it should
[13:19]	:	Bronson, you're a cloud.
[13:19]	:	Hm. We have one of those, Iufpleh.
[13:19]	:	More or less...
[13:19]	:	clown?
[13:19]	:	yes I am
[13:19]	:	good stuff like "Press Alt-F4 and then Enter very quickly for free L$"
[13:20]	:	http://secondlife.com/kb
[13:20]	:	the KB needs a better search tree and a button to stop the Ontyne from using the KB lol
[13:20]	:	cloud cloud cloud. you're a hovering white vapor.
[13:20]	:	Bronson isn't a cloud to me. :)
[13:20]	:	oh hold on I'll see if I can fix that
[13:20]	:	Ain't technology wunnerful? :D
[13:20]	:	he looks fine to me
[13:20]	:	Heh! We're working on re-organizing the top level to make it easier to drill down to the articles you want. No comment on the Ontynes.
[13:20]	:	Bronson looks rezzed to me :)
[13:21]	:	lol
[13:21]	:	Ah, now he's rezzed..... sorta.
[13:21]	:	ok
[13:21]	:	just had to edit myself and hit ctrl alt R a zillion times
[13:21]	:	works most of the time
[13:21]	:	hmm, interesting > http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/07/21/changes-to-burning-life
[13:22]	:	oh, I've got a question for you guys.... what's up with the sim Grasmere?
[13:22]	:	ok so no comment on the Ontyne but can i ask if they have been train to handle 3D social networks and its many forms of communitys with in it ?
[13:23]	:	They renamed Burning Life?? oO
[13:23]	:	yes copy right rules lol
[13:24]	:	I don't really know enough to talk about the Ontynes, xstorm... and I'm not sure I'd be allowed to even if I did know :-/
[13:24]	:	I ask about Grasmere because it came up as a fix for one of my customer's problems.
[13:24]	:	"Burning Life will be renamed BURN 2.0."
[13:24]	:	its ok Jeremy :-) im just poking fun at them a little
[13:24]	 	has pinged you.
[13:24]	:	If Torley isn't with this team anymore, will someone else take over doing all those wonderful video tutorials?
[13:24]	:	/me rolls his eyes skyward.
[13:25]	:	My office is in Grasmere and the region runs well each time I'm there.
[13:25]	:	Torley is still around
[13:25]	:	Torley is still making video tutorials, and he'll even be coming to this office hour occasionally... he's just officially moved to another public-facing team.
[13:25]	:	he is very very over worked
[13:26]	:	Oh, that's good. His tutorials are an invaluable resource and one of the best public relations tools SL/LL has
[13:26]	:	well, I'll show you what my customer was told
[13:26]	:	Hi Please log onto your account and follow these instructions This should resolve your issue. 1. Close Second Life. 2. Open the Second Life viewer, (not any Third party viewer.) 3. Clear Cashe (Viewer 1.23) Go to edit > Preferences > Network > Clear cache. (Clear Cashe Viewer 2) Me > Preferences > Setup tab Click on the Reset button under Network 4. Then, go to Edit > Preferences > General and check Show Start Location on Login Screen. Hit OK to close, then close Second Life and open it again 5. Type Grasmere into the start location field, below where you put your name, and log in. 6. You'll be in Grasmere, probably underwater. Dont TP out, just stay there for a few. After about 2 minutes, open your inventory, and check to see what the count is. Please feel free to contact us again in the future if you have any further problems/queries. Kind Regards, Glass OT Linden Lab Support
[13:26]	:	I'll pass that along, Sirius. I'm sure he'll love to hear it!
[13:26]	:	lol
[13:26]	:	this was proposed as a fix for that nasty coalesced object bug
[13:26]	:	What the frak?!?!? :D :D :D
[13:26]	:	Thank you Jeremy. :)
[13:26]	 	has pinged you.
[13:27]	:	what person told you that ?
[13:28]	:	Huh. I wonder if whoever wrote that used Grasmere just because it's largely a public place.
[13:28]	:	just one of my customers passing that on to me
[13:28]	:	What are the current two or three top documentation projects, if you are able to let us know?
[13:28]	:	must have
[13:28]	:	CG and I were the ones who found and figured out the problem and CG created an internal fix, but he didn't get that little tip at all.
[13:28]	:	So, what is special about logging in at Grasmere that fixes this bug that is defferent from loggin in at.... say.... Phantasien?
[13:28]	:	there is very little wrong with that sim
[13:28]	:	I know... that's what I can't figure out.
[13:29]	:	and it can not fix a real bug
[13:29]	:	Grasmere may just be a low lag region.
[13:29]	:	try one of the sims thats just a sea
[13:29]	:	I'm not sure how much we can say about our current projects, but we're definitely trying to keep up with the Viewer 2.1 beta while we try to line up with the company's new "do less and do it better" philosophy.
[13:29]	:	CG said something about a few things better there. but I think the above advice was just a way to get a properly refreshed inventory fix
[13:30]	:	can you expand on what "do less" means?
[13:30]	:	Jeremy, that is actually good policy. if you get trying to do too much at once, you get nothing done.
[13:30]	 	has pinged you.
[13:30]	:	I'll see if I can find the official explanation on the blogs... But essentially there were too many projects. So many, we couldn't do any of them very well.
[13:31]	:	brb damn power pole was just hit by lightning
[13:31]	:	I see. Yes, it is smart policy to focus on fewer projects and do them well.
[13:31]	:	http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/07/16/update-on-strategy-and-call-for-in-world-meeting
[13:32]	:	speaking of the 2.1 beta..... I saw a thing somewhere that showed it would allow you to wear multiple items on the same attachment point. Say, several overlapping shirts at the shirt layer. How does this handle it compared with the way Emerald handles its duplicate attachment points?
[13:32]	:	Thank you Kate. :)
[13:32]	:	You're welcome :)
[13:32]	:	having done a couple projects of the scope of SL, I can tell you that's hit me before and I could see it happening here.
[13:33]	:	duty calls. gotta run. Jeremy and Kate, thanks for taking time for us. bye everyone
[13:33]	 	has pinged you.
[13:33]	:	bye
[13:33]	:	Nathan, I'm afraid I have absolutely no knowledge of Emerald, much less how its texture rendering compares to the official viewer.
[13:35]	:	Sorry to kill the mood? :-P
[13:35]	:	.me wishes people would stop using that viewer
[13:35]	:	I can tell you that because multiple attachment points is not supported in the official viewer (yet?), things attached at the extra points in Emerald look strange to people not using Emerald.
[13:35]	:	Sirius you are right
[13:35]	:	So I've been told, Sirius.
[13:35]	:	alot of attachments dont even appear near the AV
[13:35]	:	just float in the air
[13:36]	:	That's true. They do just appear to float in the air.
[13:36]	:	Well, Emerald has a, frex, Spine atachment point, like usual, and a seperate Spine 2 attachement point, handled and named as such in its internal XML file. Was wondering if the 2.1 viewer did something similar, or if it just quietly says "Ah, another item wants to be attached to Spine, I'll just apply that on top of the item already attached to Spine."
[13:36]	:	there is a fix for that do not use emrald
[13:36]	:	But I really am here for the SL docs discussion.
[13:37]	:	Nathan, that actually sounds like something Nyx might be able to answer at his office hour.
[13:37]	:	Nathan the 2.1 viewer will be able to add to a already filled slot
[13:37]	:	Where is that located?
[13:37]	:	xstorm; what kinud of fix ?
[13:37]	:	Wednesdays at 1pm at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Borrowdale/74/217/32?title=Nyx%20Linden's%20Office
[13:37]	:	its not fully supported server side yet untill 1,40 is fully on teh grid
[13:38]	:	its off by default right now
[13:38]	:	Er, whoops.
[13:38]	:	Wednesdays at 12pm at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Borrowdale/74/217/32?title=Nyx%20Linden's%20Office
[13:38]	:	lol
[13:38]	:	Ends at 1pm, when this office hour starts.
[13:38]	:	or were you asking about Nyxs OH
[13:38]	:	yes
[13:39]	:	For a mostly-complete listing of Linden office hours, check out http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
[13:39]	:	ty
[13:39]	:	Is there any reasonably complete listing or index of SL docs?
[13:40]	:	avaialble to residents, that is
[13:40]	:	Most of the docs we've written can be found on the wiki at http://secondlife.com/kb
[13:40]	:	thank you Jeremy
[13:40]	 	has pinged you.
[13:41]	:	And you can actually access the in-viewer help content in the Viewerhelp: namespace on the wiki, but I think it's locked to non-Lindens.
[13:41]	:	What I've always done when I've had a question is go to Google, type "Second LIfe," then a phrase
[13:41]	:	I usually find the wikis and other info that way
[13:41]	:	Ah.
[13:41]	:	There are several help doc resources, such as Viewer Help, the Quick Start Guide, the KB, and also Torley's videos. While we bring the KB up to date, we'll look at bringing help docs together.
[13:42]	:	I'm interested to know which help resources you use first when you need information.
[13:42]	:	If you go directly to http://wiki.secondlife.com and use the search there, it'll search using our own Google search appliance, which has been tweaked to try to search the wiki better than "normal" Google.
[13:42]	:	I own two homestead sims with some rentals on them. Have learned much just by helping tenants and their friends solve problems.
[13:43]	:	But it's hit or miss. I would love a way to zero in on subjects quickly
[13:43]	:	Thanks Jeremy. That's good to know
[13:43]	 	has pinged you.
[13:43]	:	Kate, I always use Google
[13:44]	:	ok i have to log off the storm has gotten very bad
[13:44]	:	We're working on trying to improve that, Sirius. With luck, we'll be able to group most of the useful wiki articles into better categories.
[13:44]	:	Do you search google from the Viewer or go to your external browser?
[13:44]	:	CT is getting hit hard
[13:44]	:	And the Torley videos when I can find one that speaks to the question I have at the moment.
[13:44]	:	look out in Boston your next
[13:44]	:	I also have ideas for how to remove chatlogs from search results, based on feedback I received here. That might take some time, though.
[13:44]	:	Oy, xstorm, I see it on the radar.
[13:44]	:	laterz every one
[13:45]	:	our power is gone
[13:45]	:	laterz
[13:46]	:	Is anyone here going to SLCC this year?
[13:46]	:	Kate, I go to my external browser. Never use a browser inside SL.
[13:46]	:	/me raises hand.
[13:46]	:	Me too!
[13:46]	:	Heh. I have no excuse not to go. It's a 30 minute drive from my house :-X
[13:47]	:	What is SLCC?
[13:47]	:	presumably there'd be a way to search JUST the chatlogs, too, right?
[13:47]	:	SLCC is the yearly Second Life Community Convention.
[13:47]	:	Oh yes, I want to go to that also. Has it been schedule yet?
[13:47]	:	Lets say you want to learn how to join a group. If you go to google and search, and get results from the wiki, blogs, sl answers, videos - which resource are you likely to look at for the answer first?
[13:47]	:	Philip Rosedale to Keynote the Second Life Community Convention 2010 > http://www.slconvention.org/speakers/philip-rosedale-to-keynote-the-second-life-community-convention-2010/
[13:47]	:	http://www.slconvention.org/
[13:48]	:	Yes Sirius, It's being held mid-August.
[13:48]	:	Ok, to answer your question, Kate, I would go to Google and type Second Life join group
[13:48]	:	Second Life Community Convention in Boston on Saturday morning, August 14th, at 8AM EST/5AM PST.
[13:48]	:	Usually the first or second item that comes up is one that tells me what I need to know
[13:49]	:	Thanks Sirius!
[13:49]	:	you're very welcome :)
[13:49]	:	You guys are terrific with feedback. It's really helpful. :)
[13:50]	:	guys and gals
[13:50]	:	If my experience so far in SL is any indication, I believe most people don't make use of these resources, not even Google. They ask other residents for help.
[13:51]	:	Course, then you run into those "Am I your ****ing Google?!??" types. Heh
[13:51]	:	That makes sense too. Did you find the Viewer itself helpful when you first joined SL? Was it intuitive?
[13:51]	:	Yeah, although I don't get that very often. These days I'm the person others in my acquaintence go to for help now.
[13:51]	:	㋡
[13:52]	:	But I was very fortunate when I first joined. I met someone who was an excellent mentor.
[13:52]	:	Yeah, I'm kinda like that too. Well, mostly on one f the OpenSim grids I hang out on a lot
[13:52]	:	I have over 20 years experience in information systems, mostly mainframe, so I had no trouble learning the viewer.
[13:52]	:	I still prefer 1.23 to the new viewer.
[13:53]	:	Hello manu :)
[13:53]	:	hello
[13:53]	:	Welcome to the Documentation Team office hour. Feel free to join us :)
[13:54]	:	But from my experience helping tenants and newbies, a lot of people muddle through without ever learning a great deal about any viewer.
[13:54]	:	Since it was the first time I was using this kind of software, it's difficult to say if it was intuitive or not. I guess I'm more able to tell now with experience.
[13:55]	:	I prefer 2.0 :)
[13:55]	:	Have you tried the 2.1 Beta Laurent?
[13:55]	:	for serious work I still use 1.23
[13:55]	:	I'm using it now.
[13:55]	:	You only use Viewer 2 for funny business? :-P
[13:55]	:	but 2.1 is now usable enough for me to be a day-to-day viewer
[13:56]	:	attending OH is funny business
[13:56]	:	so for this, 2.1 works well enough
[13:56]	:	"Why did the avatar cross the road?"
[13:56]	:	building I still use 1.23
[13:56]	:	I'm not sure it's a good idea to remove the menus in the My inventory panel
[13:57]	:	why DID the avatar cross the road, hehehe
[13:57]	:	"Was it tethered to the chicken?"
[13:57]	:	jeremy... to get to the adult parcel on the other side
[13:57]	 	has pinged you.
[13:57]	:	"Because there was a region border down the middle and he couldn't stop himself!"
[13:57]	:	hahahaha
[13:57]	:	ouch! LOL
[13:57]	:	good one jeremy
[13:57]	 	has pinged you.
[13:58]	:	lol
[13:58]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:58]	:	Hope I don't get roasted too badly for that one.
[13:58]	:	lol
[13:58]	:	besides that there are a lot of nice things, like the possibility not to resize the display when opening the sidebar
[13:58]	:	nope, fun is job #1 :)
[13:58]	:	sounds like many places in zindra
[13:58]	:	border down the middle of the road
[13:59]	:	I haven't tried 2.0 yet. Watched the Torley videos, though.
[13:59]	:	I was always fixing that with a xml file with viewer 2.0
[13:59]	:	2.x has a great possibility for customization
[13:59]	:	like the buttons on the lower task bar as an example
[14:00]	:	Also if you right-click the bottom bar you can enable favorite buttons.
 
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Category:Documentation Office Hours