Doc Team/2010-01-27

== Transcript ==
[13:00]	:	OH FRIENDLY GREETINGS.
[13:00]	:	friendly hello's torley!
[13:00]	:	WHY frienly greetings!
[13:00]	:	Hello Mr Linden.
[13:00]	:	I'm reminded of the Winnie th Pooh song aout it
[13:00]	:	Greetings Torley!
[13:00]	:	he he he he he
[13:01]	:	Friedly Greetings, Native; let me eat your leader
[13:01]	:	Hi Torley
[13:01]	:	Hey Torley.
[13:01]	:	oh torley, got something also for you!
[13:01]	:	greetings Torley
[13:01]	:	let me send it to you
[13:01]	:	Hi Aargle, long time :)
[13:01]	:	Pardon in advance if the rest of my fine team can't make it today; they may all be occupied! But I am here to field any questions, concerns, wackiness you may have about Second Life documentation (help files)... or tangentially related awesomeness.
[13:01]	:	Thanks Xaria!
[13:01]	 	gave you The Vault 2.0 Gift Box.
[13:01]	:	hey Torley!
[13:01]	:	working on a huge Fall out 3 style project
[13:01]	:	Oh and Xaria I wanted to let you know that yes, part of Here is "on sale" intentionally for testing. No one can afford it, not even Governor Linden. ;) So no fear, it shall not be snapped up.
[13:02]	:	I am trying to find out who is responsible for New User Experience these days. Is that the Doc Team?
[13:02]	:	I haven't played Fallout 3, not sure if I will, but I like that atmosphere and pedigree of game...
[13:02]	:	Torley i bet they are fix in lots of server bugs and sim problems
[13:02]	 	on Facebook, as Aaron Freeman: John Travolta bought himself a pilot's liscense, to go with his airplane http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/26/john-travolta-scientology-aid-haiti
[13:02]	:	yeah, I had a poke around Here when I saw it in one of your vids.
[13:02]	:	Ah Pim, no. That would be cross-departmental, different teams are involved. Doc Team is involved insofar as writing help... did you have a specific question?
[13:02]	:	unless i sent in to many abuse reports
[13:02]	:	lol
[13:02]	:	I had planz to buy that! Aw, shucks.
[13:02]	:	glad you were aware :p
[13:03]	:	It feels weird to sit in this chair, I'm usually on a couch, hoo-hah! (In an Al Pacino voice.)
[13:03]	:	i blame Torley every time i file a Abuse Report
[13:03]	:	I have a college project : I must study and suggest improvements to a business process. I thought of the NUE
[13:03]	:	talked to kate about it before i forgot again, we both thought you may have forgotten after shooting one of your wonderfull videos!
[13:03]	:	Really, I think of Torley whenever I have a watermelon
[13:03]	:	the vault parts are done actually, rest what i doing is misc items, like the junk you see on the ground and other things that may need to be added
[13:03]	:	Ah yes, NUE used to be the providence of a single team, but now as the world and Linden Lab have grown, different parts of it are spread out.
[13:03]	:	To file an abuse report simply go to the help menu and click on 'Report Abuse'
[13:04]	:	Kate did let me know, Xaria! Thanx.
[13:04]	:	Torley, I dunno if this falls into the doc team's jurisdiction, but I made a Jira suggestion that first attempts to use the Unlink menu feature give a heavy "do you wish to continue" warning. I get too many new customers who really don't get that and just use link and unlink to move things around and just get themselves in trouble.
[13:04]	:	no problem!
[13:04]	:	I promised last week I'd blog about covenants, and so I have... http://secondlife.com/tnt
[13:04]	:	Maybe one team would be willing to let me study their part
[13:04]	:	yeah, ty.
[13:04]	:	Torley you can have my spot :-)
[13:04]	 	smiles
[13:04]	:	(good to keep promises)
[13:05]	:	no jeremy or kate today?
[13:05]	:	Aargle, I agree, and not having an undo for that is painful. Doc Team does provide internal feedback when something we're documenting is hard to explain or has ramifications like that... and so often, by nature of me just *being* in Second Life and using tools, I FEEL THAT PAIN.
[13:05]	:	Xaria, alas not that I think of.
[13:05]	:	we still have one of the doc team musketeers!
[13:06]	:	Pim, yeah, I find making an open committment helps, if I promise to do something and you hear it and it's on the record, haha, I can't hide that! =) But seriously I enjoy sharing about SL culture and how things came to be... and where they might be going!
[13:06]	:	test test is this thing on ?
[13:06]	:	heh, well, I'm ok with living without an undo for linking... but you'd be surprised how many people think you have to link things to move them as a unit to another spot.
[13:06]	:	yes, XStorm - loud & clear
[13:06]	 	winces as the singalhowlaround happens
[13:06]	:	Gnome, it's funny how you have a mini V-Synth. Long ago I wanted to buy one but didn't have the cash at the time, so I symbolically wore one in SL. They've advanced several generations by now... I think.
[13:06]	:	voice is disabled here xstorm :p
[13:06]	:	;-)
[13:06]	:	of coruse, you could always just make it mandatory to watch your videos before using some of the menus. :-)
[13:06]	:	thanks to someone that did not want to listen to torley's warnings :p
[13:07]	:	Oo
[13:07]	 	watches Torley's videos just for the entertainment some days
[13:07]	:	Indeed! I saw it on your older av's and was like OMG I gotta use that somehow, and bring it back to life. :D
[13:07]	:	Ah yes, that's a good point, Aargle. Misconceptions like that can be explained better. Some of my videos have been workarounds for problems not fixed sooner  but of course, if the problem can be rendered moot in the first place (as in, "WHAT PROBLEM?"), then ultimately, that seamlessness is elegant and intuitive. To use a couple words Steve Jobs might! Oh my gosh the iPad is out!
[13:07]	:	Hahahaha.
[13:07]	:	Someone mentioned, that there's a way, to identify which link number you've selected to edit, but it's the old Cheesy Bacon Problem, as far as looing that feature up
[13:07]	:	I CAN carry on conversations using only gestures.
[13:08]	:	haha
[13:08]	:	always wanting to use voice huh xstorm :p
[13:08]	:	Oo
[13:08]	:	yes
[13:08]	:	A lot of my motivation for doing the videos came out of me saying things out loud when I was having problems in SL, and knowing  based on similar complaints I saw  that simply showing stuff could often be faster and more fun than walls of text (text still has its place, but all these elements must work together).
[13:08]	:	wooly wool mommoth!
[13:08]	:	Halllooooo
[13:08]	:	Soon, it'll be four years since I first started making video tutorials and OH MY GOSH... Summer!
[13:08]	:	hey summer!
[13:08]	:	torley!
[13:09]	:	Glad to know that species isn't extinct. :)
[13:09]	:	multiple channels makes it easier to learn
[13:09]	:	problems in SL like linden wallet not working
[13:09]	:	flea made it and gave me all three versions =)
[13:09]	:	oh my, nice avi summer
[13:09]	:	Do Mamoths count as Woolies, rather than Furies?
[13:09]	:	doesn't it rock?? =)
[13:09]	:	where did you buy?
[13:09]	:	I get so many people who don't speak english anymore that a lot of my help stuff I'm doing just as pictures.
[13:09]	:	is that a mmammoth?
[13:09]	:	yup!
[13:09]	:	venders not working lol
[13:09]	:	Pim, yes, and different learning styles. I find video is just "show as is" so that's straightforward...
[13:09]	:	so what are we talking about? ipad? haha =)
[13:09]	:	crashing from textures
[13:09]	:	Ah good point Aargle!
[13:09]	:	yummy grass you keep here, torley =)
[13:09]	:	I'm unpopular in Second Life, should I file a JIRA?
[13:10]	:	now dont shew on the furries!
[13:10]	:	yes gnome
[13:10]	:	Whenever there are problems, I look for opportunities from ingenious people  like folks who improved inworld translators to such a state that Snowglobe (and some others, I think) include a built-in translator.
[13:10]	 	tries to imagine Torley's videos in spanish: "Hola, eh?"
[13:10]	:	Or haz this bug already been reported?
[13:10]	:	i miss torley videos! =(
[13:10]	:	Aargle, I've actually heard a French one...
[13:10]	:	on the blog!
[13:10]	:	If you're so unpopular, that people won't let you beg in a welcome area, you might file an abuse report
[13:10]	:	the blog is so boring now
[13:10]	:	only if I can do SL on an iPad
[13:10]	:	But if he is unpopular, no one will vote for that JIRA
[13:10]	:	you could doa translation on his videos
[13:10]	:	im sure Torley wont mind that
[13:10]	:	There isn't an official iPhone client yet but I know there's that Touch Life one, which I'm glad is exploring possibilities.
[13:10]	:	Translators need you to be careful what you type.
[13:11]	:	Some translator Residents (like Laurent Bechir) have been working with our Localization Team to do their own language-specific videos.
[13:11]	:	ask the CT translation team of that language, perhaps they can help out a little
[13:11]	 	wonders how many mamoths could fit on this platform before there's no more room.... prolly not many
[13:11]	:	my favorite mis-translation of something originally intended to be spanish for "my bad" came through as: "Tapeworm is my culpa"
[13:11]	:	atm there are a lot doing nothing due to NDA work
[13:11]	:	The key thing I find so often, is to not think too much about what needs help filled, and jump into the wild  inworld, SL Answers, grab what's hot and act on it. Hot topics get a disproportional amount of attention and can help many more people too.
[13:11]	:	hehe
[13:12]	:	OH MY GOSH THAT BALLOON IS ADORABLE XSTORM.
[13:12]	 	imagines Torley Tuts with Chinese Subtitles, so that two billion people will be able to understand them.
[13:12]	:	I heart being with you guys just for the badass avatars.
[13:12]	:	ty :-)
[13:12]	:	oh wow i love it xstorm =)
[13:12]	:	that is sooo cute
[13:12]	 	mutters, "It gets bad enough when the dragons come to a dance, but mammoths at office hours...."
[13:12]	:	I think I'm looking boring anymore.
[13:12]	:	hey this is pretty rare for me.
[13:12]	:	Mammoth steaks!
[13:12]	:	:O
[13:13]	:	nooo!
[13:13]	:	I saw someone in a large ringed-planet av once! :D
[13:13]	:	it helps when i have to file abuse reports lol
[13:13]	:	Hmm, I am an omnivore.
[13:13]	:	I think it even had moons! :D
[13:13]	:	wow
[13:13]	:	lol, summer snores =)
[13:13]	:	mammoth is big
[13:13]	:	I haven't seen an Ice Age region yet... if someone did a themed one like that, maybe next winter...
[13:13]	 	imagines scripting planets to show their moons only in Adult Sims
[13:13]	:	did you see raglan this winter?
[13:13]	:	they had my new trees all over the place
[13:14]	:	torley isnt a flower summer =P
[13:14]	:	he needs a wash
[13:14]	:	lol
[13:14]	:	He's a Watermelon
[13:14]	:	IT'S A JURASSIC SHOWDOWN.
[13:14]	:	lol
[13:14]	:	Torley, You do have a sign up that you welcome help with the KB, etc. Should I try that and IM you and your teamates at need?
[13:14]	:	i think only thing i seen was the whinter build contest back in 2005
[13:14]	:	i feel boring too aargle
[13:14]	:	ah, stegasaurus.... neat
[13:14]	:	Pim, which one are you referring to? Just to be sure? :D
[13:14]	:	lol
[13:14]	:	sorry torley i'll be quiet! =)
[13:14]	:	I came here to ask about some of the limits SL has about animating huge creations like a huge robot/titan/mech that i have built. Many has said it is not posible and many others has said it is posible and all the ones saying it is posible point me to Torley Linden. So now i ask can you make a huge objekt move that has 665 prims and has legs? I can move the head and weapon arms in a loop only (Have a pic to show so you see what i talk about)
[13:14]	:	doesnt do much tho
[13:15]	:	this easel has a notice that you welcome suggestions
[13:15]	:	grendels released a lot of avitars now, for FREE
[13:15]	:	i dunno how you'd smoothly animate 665 prims at once =/ even with puppeteer..it pushes the limits of SL's animation capabilities
[13:15]	:	Well i am using a puppett script
[13:15]	:	i hope some one has a pooper scuper
[13:16]	:	yea i've never seen more than a few prims smoothly animated at once. if you do lots of prims it ends up being choppy
[13:16]	 	wonders if any more prehistoric critters will show up here today.
[13:16]	:	But i want to use it as an avi or vehicle
[13:16]	:	hey, Vorg, I'd really suggest that you talk in the scripting groups about that. if you're having troubles, I'd almost that's the best route
[13:16]	:	can you leave that in a no build area?
[13:16]	:	Vorg, oh hi! Welcome... as Summer mentions that might be pushing it  also, a single linkset can't have that many prims, so it'd be divided among three or so objects.
[13:16]	:	yes even with a single linkset you'd have major major challenges with that many prims
[13:16]	:	Well i have seen big things animated and was hoping my creation would be able to walk
[13:17]	:	"Scripters of Second Life" or "Scripting Help" are good groups
[13:17]	:	i'm not a professional animator, but i do play a know-it-all on your monitor!
[13:17]	:	And what Aargle says! Your question sounds like it'd need more research... multiple questions! https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo
[13:17]	:	Mind if i send you a pic Torley?
[13:17]	:	I guess you'd need special animations, to stretch the body parts, to animate a giant, with so many prims
[13:17]	:	If you see prior examples that inspire you, Vorg, you should ask those creators, since they'd be in the best position... if they want to share those mechanics. Yes, please do, I welcome seeing cool creations always!
[13:17]	:	I do CGI in other environments, and complicated objects really slow down animation, whatever you're working with.
[13:18]	:	The prim limit would only been in force, AFAIK, if you try scripting the linksets
[13:18]	:	i work in maya since 10 years, on and off, and i can tell you that animating that many things is gonna blow a few CPUs if you try to do it smoothly lol
[13:18]	:	Anyone else want a pic of it to see if that is something that could be animated?
[13:18]	:	as a somewhat broader question about language..... Torley, any clue how much people have taken advantage of the llGetAgentLanguage option to make, for example, multi-lingual greeters?
[13:18]	:	Oh yeah Pim! About that, did you know you can edit Knowledge Base articles directly? On http://secondlife.com/kb it explains more at the bottom. In many cases that's easier than contacting us directly but certain policy pages do have a contact form.
[13:18]	:	question: why would it need that many prims tho? you could seriously reduce your prims with sculpts/textures
[13:18]	:	can you ?
[13:18]	:	yea totally
[13:18]	:	Smoothly? As I recall, it takes time to download other than default anims, which messes up public ballet
[13:18]	:	thanks, Torley. I'll note that
[13:19]	:	you could build that with sculpties and animate that way nicer, honestly
[13:19]	:	Hmmm that I wouldn't know, that's a very eclectic one though, Aargyle. I wonder if someone like Xan Linden (Data Warehousing/stats guru) tracks that. Or Meta, who also has office hours and loves questions like that.
[13:19]	:	Cuz the thing is it looks odd with a lot of sculpts
[13:19]	 	gave you Titan.
[13:19]	:	It is the details
[13:19]	:	well we need a good one on group land and group land owning
[13:19]	:	If you look at the pic
[13:19]	:	sculpts = texture details too
[13:19]	:	Meta is super purple and her office is just across the water... hehe...
[13:19]	:	the one that they have is a mess
[13:19]	:	That's a pretty cool-looking mech, Vorg! I'd heart to see that in action.
[13:19]	:	yea it is pretty cool looking =)
[13:20]	 	trumpets it
[13:20]	:	Group land stuff is a doozy to explain. :O
[13:20]	:	ok, I'll try at one of their meetings. I'm finding out recently just how spread out SL is (owning an audio stream that shows where listeners are from is enlightening)
[13:20]	:	Well it can move a bit but not walk
[13:20]	:	not for me
[13:20]	 	normally describes this dock as under the purple square
[13:20]	:	I keep thinking wrong on texturing sculpts... Too used tio being able to tweak the UV mapping myself.
[13:21]	:	that's VERY cool (in more ways than one, I guess)
[13:21]	:	the basics of group land must first have a total amount you buy for the group open to group funds
[13:21]	:	Crazies in SL? This place might keep them Sane!!!
[13:21]	:	I wonder if people from Marz connect to Second Life?
[13:21]	:	the group funds must be more then the land you will buy
[13:21]	:	I've never really been to Antarctica and sadly my knowledge of the place is horribly tainted by John Carpenter's The Thing, but nonetheless... ;)
[13:21]	 	wonders if WEB-1406 could be construed as a documentation failure
[13:22]	:	Speaking of demographics, has there been a kind of census done to determine how many regulars in SL are what kind of creature in world most of the time, and what each type of group of creature (the furries, the kid-avs, etc) each do and how much of each? Say, how often kid-avs are at clubs, or at RP events, etc?
[13:22]	:	Hahahaha Aargle.
[13:22]	:	SL is excellent therapy
[13:22]	:	it is!
[13:22]	:	if the group is short you will get a error message
[13:22]	:	oh, I'm more worried about Aliens and Preditors down there.
[13:22]	:	*catsneeze~~*
[13:22]	:	My father knew the first person to have a heterosexual affair, amongst the crazy
[13:22]	:	fascinating idea, Nathan
[13:22]	:	Have you heard about the Russian Doctor ion Antarctica who too his own appendix out?
[13:22]	:	And, for that matter, what percentage of the populations is what?
[13:22]	:	Nathan, I don't know who did the last study on that. Some groups are suggested to get a lot of publicity/controversy but don't actually constitute many Residents. From time to time sociological studies from universities are conducted, but I'm unsure how widely their research is disseminated.
[13:23]	:	Say, how many kid avs there are in world, how many furreies, how many spae aliens, how many dragons, elves, walking treeoids, etc...
[13:23]	:	I HEART H.R. GIGER.
[13:23]	 	worried about Antarctica's relative mach speed
[13:23]	:	oh and do not ask support about some group land problems its better to find as much info on it you can
[13:23]	:	*space aliens
[13:23]	:	We did have stats previously on which *starting* avatars people picked from the Library. Don't recall what the results were tho.
[13:23]	:	i'm usually a faerie girl. i'm just feeling my munificence today.
[13:23]	:	yea i have the hippo too =)
[13:23]	:	H R did have out a game at one time
[13:23]	:	have 3 hippo's now =)
[13:23]	:	Hmmmm... might be worth commissioning a new , for want of a better word, census.
[13:24]	:	it was based on his art work
[13:24]	:	got this at grendels =)
[13:24]	:	o/
[13:24]	:	yea
[13:24]	:	"Walking treeoids" falls under the "FANS OF ENTS". :D
[13:24]	:	got a ent =)
[13:24]	:	i don't usually wear AVs. i'm just me.
[13:24]	:	this is kinda an exception
[13:24]	 	has a tiny tree, as a fan of Dwarvents
[13:24]	:	I for one would genuinely like to know just what the populatoin here of kid-avs actually is... and would also love to know what all theiy're doing.
[13:24]	:	Usually what tends to happen is if an academic institution carries out some wonderful study, they let their edu. contacts at LL know, and that may appear on the blog. Sometimes it's case studies of SL used in intriguing ways.
[13:24]	:	I ran into one of those research projects, some young lady who said she was from MIT. Said I was a "control".
[13:24]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37666
[13:24]	:	it's so i can spray torley with water. =)
[13:25]	:	hehe
[13:25]	:	Maybe I need a Bird Bird av so I can show you how to all get to Sesame Street!
[13:25]	:	㋡
[13:25]	:	Er, BIG Bird.
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	yea i feel like mrs. snuffalupagus!
[13:25]	:	Big Bird, you mean?
[13:25]	:	i tend not to stay the same too long a small shape help when building
[13:25]	:	halloooo big biiird....
[13:25]	:	interesting. out of 181 unique visitors to my sim in the last 24 hours, only 114 used english based clients.
[13:25]	:	I TOTALLY <3 big bird!
[13:25]	:	I remember watching Follow That Bird as a kid, it tripped me out... my childhood was never the same after that.
[13:25]	:	the american version or the orriginal dutch one? blue?
[13:25]	:	me too =)
[13:25]	:	I had no idea there was a Dutch one. The yellow one, I refer to.
[13:25]	:	Most of the time, I'm in kid-av form. Occasionally I'm a cat furry.
[13:26]	:	dutch one is blue feathers with orange paws and beak
[13:26]	:	called Pino
[13:26]	:	i look so good in brown fur
[13:26]	:	hi nathna im soory i was slow getting to your tp
[13:26]	:	what the heck language is FB?
[13:26]	:	Torley, is there an official policy on research projects looking at what happens in SL?
[13:26]	:	Hm, I remember when we had a way to search groups and sort by size, that would've been one non-representative, but a possible way to see various subcultures  at least people who chose to join those groups. There were more hobos than I expected!
[13:26]	:	nathan i ment
[13:26]	 	recently got rerouted to a welcome area in Zindra, but tragicaly wasn't a kid avatar
[13:26]	:	hello yoshiko
[13:26]	:	http://pietvree.punt.nl/upload/Pino.jpg
[13:26]	:	lol arawn!
[13:26]	:	WolfBaginski, yes, there was a form that needed to be signed. Not sure about now, Claudia Linden would know more about that.
[13:27]	:	Some people were very careful about their privacy and didn't want to be guinea pigs, so social scientists and whatnot need to be mindful!
[13:27]	:	I actually got shunted to an aAdult sim once when the sim I was on went down.... and I wWAS a kid av. I frantcially TPed home as fast as I could get to the approprate item on th drop down menu
[13:27]	:	lol
[13:27]	 	must return to work
[13:27]	:	yea they really have to fix re-routes. 1) should be mature area, and 2) should be understoodt hat some people get sent there by mistake.
[13:27]	:	happy day all!
[13:27]	:	<ctrl><shft>h
[13:27]	:	have fun pim!
[13:28]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37668
[13:28]	:	send them to some of the griefing groups we have
[13:28]	:	they will love to test them
[13:28]	:	Well, I know it's theoretically safe for a kid av to be in at least some Adult sims, but I wasn't taking any chances. LOL
[13:28]	:	i was modeling a product once and i was stark naked. Q went down, i relogged and got sent to a PG area (i think korea or something) and could barely tp out in time and still got yelled at.
[13:28]	:	Welcome Area should be safe enough
[13:28]	:	i was kinda upset.
[13:28]	:	to say the least.
[13:28]	:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[13:29]	:	and horribly embarrased.
[13:29]	:	I know the feeling. That happened to me on one of the OpenSim grids I go to regularly.
[13:29]	:	and it wasn't my fault!
[13:29]	 	nods: "I've picked up a few things from my brother, who is a statistician. His advice: lie like hell. If the survey design can't cope with lies, you don't want to trust them anyway."
[13:29]	:	Sans the "yelled at" part, mind you
[13:29]	:	Well thanks for your help all and take care
[13:29]	:	Waves
[13:29]	:	oh i got yelled at by a mentor
[13:29]	:	lol
[13:29]	:	if you have on a kid avatar you must watch out for some crazys in sl
[13:29]	:	be well all *smiles and waves*... byeee
[13:29]	:	i wanted to offere a sugestion on sim rateings
[13:29]	:	the rest are juet insane
[13:29]	:	but yea that sorta thing has to be fixed.
[13:29]	:	Those who get worked up about Child Porn, should regard the age at which we're first naked before strangers
[13:29]	:	in that rateing sould not be sim wide
[13:29]	:	yup
[13:30]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/37670
[13:30]	:	but be parcel specific instead
[13:30]	 	hands Arawn another can of worms and a can-opener.
[13:30]	:	Parcel Owners should be able to choose more restrictive ratings
[13:30]	:	its not the problem that people like to become young again, its the problem taking advantage of kid avi's
[13:30]	:	becuse most sims are rented out broken up
[13:30]	:	hey mojito!
[13:30]	:	well i'm never a kid so....i don't have that problem.
[13:30]	:	thank god. =)
[13:31]	:	well sim owners need more control on mainland sims
[13:31]	:	first time I met a kid av, I wasn't sure what to make of it. I was new to SL and didn't know about the various RP type characters.
[13:31]	:	yummy grass
[13:31]	:	And, there is a huuuuge difference between Child Porn (eeeegdssss...! OO) and..... merely being naked. Too many ppl have gotten in trouble IRL for sending a picure of their baby in the bathtub into the developers and someone reporting it. Oo
[13:31]	:	main reason being that adult sim land owners are gougeing people on the price of land for asult sims
[13:31]	:	its not just towards residents that pose as kid, its also running around with kid avi's causing trouble
[13:31]	:	Don't open a can of worms unless you can eat them! ;)
[13:31]	:	adult i ment
[13:31]	:	rather go fishing with wurms torley!
[13:31]	:	=)
[13:31]	:	Worms are good for fishing, tho
[13:31]	:	i don't eat worms. i'm a vegetarian
[13:31]	:	jynx
[13:32]	:	Alas, it's too easy to misinterpret text. But many people understandably are too shy or don't want to communicate on voice, or it's impractical in-person (where body language may help convey a meaning). Thus, avatars continue to sensorily evolve...
[13:32]	:	and it wpould clear up a lot of issues with ratring being corect for the use of the land
[13:32]	:	I have to live with my country's laws and cops, and I am very happy that SL is strict about kid AVs and "adult" areas.
[13:32]	:	Some people can not use voice because of th enoise
[13:32]	:	I look at some of these discussion threads that spiral out of control, and it's a shame when someone posts a hostile reply without having *really* read what came before.
[13:32]	:	actually that reminds me, i have to reinstall so my voice can be turned on again
[13:32]	 	should like to give that Martin Luthor fellow a piece of his own mind: Where's that Diet of Wyrms?
[13:32]	:	our group owns trendone and the sun and land settings are messed up but do to its mainland i have to sit on a ticket when all i need to do is just move the day time slider and save it
[13:33]	:	Luther. Luthor was Superman's nemisis
[13:33]	 	sim owners free to exclude those countries
[13:33]	:	people like to misunderstand things torley, that way they can start a fight again for no good reason.
[13:33]	:	Well, a lot of kid-avs can take care of themselves.... There IS a distrubring tendancy of some ppl trying to trick kid-avs into someting objectionable just so they can AR them. Offering them a TP to an adult place without telling them its an adult place, say.
[13:33]	:	Mojito, and some (like myself) find voice distracts from immersion... like if you're in a forest region and someone's background has a honking bus.
[13:33]	:	its just in the human nature
[13:33]	:	well i used to DJ like 16 hours a day
[13:33]	:	but after like 6 months of it i stopped. i burned out on chatting and voice for good
[13:34]	:	but i like tohave it on to hear others sometimes
[13:34]	:	some people *only* use voice now
[13:34]	:	people can not go without fighting unless you find them in a grave
[13:34]	:	I tend to use voice primarily to work on projects with one of my business partners.
[13:34]	:	Voice is essential in language courses though
[13:34]	:	At least you can try it, see how it goes for you... back before we had voice in SL I had a hard time for awhile because I developed inflammation of my wrists, was tough to type.
[13:34]	:	may sound morbit, but unfortunately true
[13:34]	:	it's MUCH quicker when you're doing building and coding
[13:34]	:	For the only true peace, says Solomon, go listen to Anubis
[13:34]	:	Only time I went near the Ahern infohub there was a screaming row going on in voice, and the traffic clogged my internet cinnection.
[13:34]	:	Keeping those hands free! =)
[13:34]	:	i have problems typing do to my CIDP
[13:35]	:	i dont use voice in order to better hide my RL idenity
[13:35]	:	personally i like to create things instead of destroy
[13:35]	:	and my linux machine dosent work properly with it at the moment
[13:35]	:	Here's to creation!
[13:35]	:	we use voice, just not the second life one, external application as its higher quality, and does not fail every 2 minutes
[13:35]	:	cheers!
[13:35]	:	i used voice just fine. =)
[13:35]	:	my hands can not keep moving for long with out them stopping on me
[13:35]	:	i just haven't really chatted in voice in a long time
[13:35]	:	Phase, I'm curious which one you use?
[13:35]	:	will tere be a newer, better version of voice provided withSL2?
[13:35]	:	unfortunately, too few voice users will do headphones
[13:36]	:	i gotta run guys. was nice meeting you all!
[13:36]	:	teamspeak is a good one
[13:36]	:	Headphones is the only way to do voice. Without it you lose the spatial cues.
[13:36]	:	I don't know, Nathan. What are you hoping for in a newer, better version? :)
[13:36]	:	nothing more aggravating than hearing yourself near full-volume and echoing about a second late
[13:36]	:	good to see you again torley. been a loooong time.
[13:36]	:	low lag and doesnt fail
[13:36]	:	l8r Summer
[13:36]	:	i'm sorry it's been so long
[13:36]	:	You too Summer! Take care.
[13:36]	:	ventrillo is a good one as well
[13:36]	:	keep out some fresh grass for me!
[13:36]	:	team speak, team talk, gtalk.. msn, take your pick..... a cup and a bit of string at a pinch... would be more stable...
[13:36]	:	hehe
[13:36]	:	Hehe.
[13:36]	:	skype + SL doesnt make all that good of a combination tho
[13:36]	:	/protal QarlLinden
[13:36]	:	/portal QarlLinden
[13:36]	 	wants to drive a bus, into the Antarctic, so he can beep the horn, while the crazies are using Voice
[13:37]	:	Teamspeak is used by IVAO, the online airline organization. Lots of poeple flying Msft Flight Sim together.
[13:37]	:	skype and SL combination tends to lag a lot
[13:37]	:	Online airlines are really fascinating to me, self-organization and dedication like that, and planning all those flight schedules!
[13:37]	:	peopel have done some very good things with voice, take the tonight show with paisly beeb or even the "who wants to be a millionaire show"
[13:37]	:	Oh yeah. And VERY realistic. Those poeple know what they are doing
[13:37]	:	people too
[13:38]	:	hello
[13:38]	:	I've seen some of those virtual airlines sites, and there's an incredible amount of dedication. I admire that passion, and Mojito, yeah, how some of them configure their workspaces to resemble actual cockpits. Amazing.
[13:38]	:	SL Voice works great it only has 3 small problems with it
[13:38]	:	I enjoyed being on Paisley's show very much!
[13:38]	:	And the people doing the ATC role are pretty good too.
[13:38]	:	How many are Pilots?
[13:38]	:	/raises hand
[13:38]	:	The only difference is that Teamspeak sounds BETTER than RL airplane radios
[13:38]	:	heh
[13:38]	:	lol
[13:38]	:	lol, much better mojito
[13:39]	:	Are any of you familiar with Brian Eno? He has some very fascinating ideas about working with sound.
[13:39]	:	I have a pilot's license, buyt it does not allow me to fly the Airbus I do online. :)
[13:39]	 	imagines a voice degradation program, for virtual airliners
[13:39]	:	I have some of his music, yeah
[13:39]	:	fascinating? in what way?
[13:39]	:	He even exhibited in Second Life before, 77 Million Paintings was the name.
[13:39]	:	problem is, not everyone uses a headset, which often causes problems
[13:39]	:	Aargle, many! But to pick one, generative music.
[13:39]	:	You really should use a noise-canceling microphone
[13:39]	:	is there a place to get USB headsets?
[13:39]	:	telling them doesnt work simply because they are to stubborn to listen to good advice
[13:39]	:	or mute as we call it
[13:39]	:	I used to spend a lot of time with Flight Simulator. But with dial-up internet it wasn't practical to work live with other people.
[13:39]	:	lol
[13:40]	:	The Logitech G35 USB headset is excellent by the way
[13:40]	:	oh, gotcha.... sound in the sense of "sound generation"
[13:40]	:	shops should only sell headsets, not loose mics'
[13:40]	:	I like when places in Second Life have environmental sound that goes beyond a single sound loop  there are various ones that play at shifting intervals to make them sound more "alive".
[13:40]	:	neither those cheap junk things, also cause problems
[13:40]	:	when are they bringing SL to the IPOD Touch, and what happened to the MSN style SLim application ?
[13:40]	:	I have this amazing program called Speakerphone, it can make your normal through-the-mic voice sound like it's an old telephone, a staticky radio, or VHS tape.
[13:40]	:	Only problme wiht the G35 is the "surround sound" effect is done in software in the driver, which only works on Windows
[13:41]	:	not happening for some time phase
[13:41]	:	the mic I use for voice is a small tabletop USB device meant to be used a a VoIP spekerphone
[13:41]	:	Torley, yes... I've heard a few that go by time of day, too.
[13:41]	:	That I don't know, Phase. Haven't heard anything new about SLim recently.
[13:41]	:	i have the G15 and G9 mojito
[13:41]	:	troble is, everyone then hears my computer's fan, bewcause its sitting on top of the computer.
[13:41]	:	Aargle, oh those are brilliant! Along with the streetlights that only turn on at night. I LOVE that.
[13:41]	:	no problems so far, unless its fading of letters etc
[13:41]	:	There IS a text-only SL client with voice, ya know...
[13:41]	:	It's like, "Twilight... and crickets!"
[13:41]	:	Which one are you referring to, Mojito?
[13:41]	:	was thinking of getting the new G headset
[13:41]	:	Radegast
[13:42]	:	yes... URL pls
[13:42]	:	It does local chat type voice, not proivate calls like SLim
[13:42]	:	http://www.radegastclient.org I think
[13:42]	:	That's new to me. *looks it up*
[13:42]	:	so you appear in world, though you cant see it
[13:42]	:	and can only talk to the people near you
[13:42]	:	shame is, I haven't yet scripted anything like that myself. probably should, but I got lazy and just bought a few environmental things
[13:42]	:	The private call stuff will go in eventually. I know, because I wrote it
[13:42]	:	lol, couldnt you wait a second before taking a picture torley? =P
[13:42]	:	i think they need to stick blondin in this meeting too
[13:43]	:	lol
[13:43]	:	looking rather balt on that one!
[13:43]	:	Ooh you're a contributor! Very cool, Mojito.
[13:43]	:	I didnt write Radegast. Just the voice part, and the text-to-speech part
[13:43]	:	Oh sorry to have been premature. XD
[13:43]	:	=P
[13:43]	:	Oh, it does speech-to-text too, on WIndows
[13:43]	:	happens...
[13:43]	:	some one TP blondin linden in
[13:43]	:	I remember the first time I heard TTS, was on an Amiga. And also, the early Soundblasters.
[13:44]	:	ooh! ooh! another Amiga owner!
[13:44]	:	I still have mine. :-)
[13:44]	:	Ah yes, I still miss my Amiga1200....
[13:44]	:	speach to text, like "Say: Hello friends" and app replies " Confirmed shutting down computer deleting C drive "
[13:44]	:	lol
[13:44]	:	I bought several after market voices for it. Makes a big difference
[13:44]	:	Dern thing died on e a year or so ago.... but it lasted and lasted and lasted
[13:44]	 	has a CD32 still.
[13:44]	:	http://www.cepstral.com
[13:44]	:	I remember struggling with it. The early stuff was built on the assumption that everyone was American.
[13:44]	:	paid over $700 for my first hard-drive on that... a whopping 110M
[13:44]	:	you mean they're not ?
[13:44]	:	my amiga was destroyed thanks to someone that called himself a 'friend'
[13:45]	:	The Radegast voice thing will match the voice gender to the avatar gender.
[13:45]	:	ouch
[13:45]	:	indeed ouch
[13:45]	:	he had ouch as well then :p
[13:45]	:	It's crazy, and now 2TB... TWO FREAKIN' TERABYTES... of hard drive space is dropping to sub-$140 U.S., even lower with special sales!
[13:45]	:	Yeah, but you cant put your SL cache on it...
[13:45]	:	yeah.... I just picked up a 1TB drive not all that long ago and it's already seeming dated.
[13:46]	:	you would need to take a small holiday to defrag a drive at that size, at that capacity
[13:46]	:	and xstorm is back to hunting lindens i see =P
[13:46]	:	Well, on a different note.... someone was telling me recentlt about how some sim owners don't seem to understand the rules on what constitutes PG, or Mature, or whatnot, read wrong things into it, and then bang ppl over the head with the TOS .
[13:46]	:	About the only practical way to backup a1 TB drive is another 1 TB drive.
[13:46]	:	lol
[13:47]	:	For instance, some don't allow kid-avs on a PG sim, because they think somehow that they don't belong on a PG sim. oO
[13:47]	:	PG means that breasts are not presentable to small children, while Adult is photographically presentable
[13:47]	:	think you need to ask blondin on that one
[13:47]	:	Wolf, that's correct.
[13:47]	:	I use floppy disks to backup my 1TB drive.
[13:47]	:	it's why I got that drive.
[13:47]	:	It works well.
[13:47]	:	There are some NAS enclosures you can plug thiose 1TB drives into, and it will RAID them
[13:47]	:	blondin is the one that can tell you the best
[13:47]	:	Others, so I'm told, think kid-avs don't beloing on a Mature sim. oO
[13:47]	:	On that note, Nathan, we're planning to have further clarifications about the maturity ratings... I can't disclose what those are going to be yet... but I will say "PG" isn't a universal term.
[13:47]	:	yes they laim that kid av's are only for [pervs
[13:47]	:	claim iment
[13:48]	:	i beg the differ yos
[13:48]	:	it will get to a point where we just need a boot drive to get dos, and then a bank of 1TB usb pen drives
[13:48]	:	The rating system used in Europe for movies might be clearer. They attach age numbers.
[13:48]	:	lots of people like to have their kid years back
[13:48]	:	But the issue here is one more of content.
[13:48]	:	People would still be confused by Ab-Sex
[13:48]	:	only way they really can get that is by becoming a child here
[13:48]	:	for sex, yes, thats wrong
[13:48]	:	Yeah, many countries don't have a "PG rating" ontheir movies, they use a different erm. So, I mention to someone about someting being like in a PG movie and they're like "Huh? PG? Wazzat?"
[13:48]	:	For example, people playing violent combat games may not want any sex present.
[13:49]	:	But both get rated the same by the Movie ratings
[13:49]	:	not in the netherlands mojito :p
[13:49]	:	big brother - the man ... take your pick... your choices are never your own
[13:49]	:	I'm wary of getting too obviously linked to movie system or rating. They;re often manipulated by the film companies becauseof the age of the big audience.
[13:49]	:	the rating system here is more clearly about what it is
[13:49]	:	Heck, several of the kid-av sims I frequent are Mature. But there are also kid-av oriented sims that are PG. The child-information center one for instance
[13:49]	:	Now on DirecTV at least, they have a bunch of letter codes for exactly what is in it. Violence, language, nuidity, etc
[13:49]	:	a horror movie gets a spider as logo for example
[13:50]	:	how about simply haveing a set of check boxes that tell you what to expect in the sim
[13:50]	:	sex movie gets 4 feet, as if they were...
[13:50]	:	Tough thing about any standard that gets adopted is it becomes very hard, for reasons both positive and negative and in-between, to dislodge or change later.
[13:50]	:	well you know
[13:50]	:	like nudity or violance or what ever
[13:50]	:	I was removed from Franks ( ejected ) all because I looked like the grim reaper.
[13:50]	:	drugs gets a siringe
[13:50]	:	etc
[13:50]	:	laws here are very clear on such things
[13:50]	:	Was your grim reaper in formal clothes? They will throw you out if not
[13:50]	:	What ws Frank's doing?
[13:51]	:	well it was as formal as I thought he would look
[13:51]	:	yoshiko, relating to last week's conversation, one of the original "covenant" ideas was to clearly show them before you teleported somewhere defined as "restricted"... it was along the lines of a "passport" but didn't work out.
[13:51]	:	lol
[13:51]	:	Franks is a formal dancehall, with a dress code
[13:51]	:	nudity does not = sex in my opinion
[13:51]	:	Sorry everyone. Haveto run and attend a chicken in te oven
[13:51]	:	Have a wonderful week :)
[13:51]	:	If I want kinky birtual furry sex, I go to an old-style text multi-plyer game. The graphics are better.
[13:51]	:	Would be useful to also link to a page somewhere listing the last known statistics as to how many kid avs are active in SL, how many furries, etc.... if one is known.
[13:52]	:	think people just need to set things in their preferances
[13:52]	:	this one
[13:52]	:	much simpler and doesnt cause problems as much
[13:52]	:	can pre define your wishes then
[13:52]	:	besides... why use a full search engine when you can turn off mature and adult setting?
[13:53]	:	While I don't think Linden Lab could do that, Nathan, I'd like to see if any community leaders/statisticians step up and provide those services. I know some of the furry communities have been very awesome at self-documenting their culture and they'd know it the best.
[13:53]	:	its not SL yoshiko, but your own ideas =)
[13:53]	:	Basically, if someone thinks kid-avs don't beloong on a PG sim, prexumably because they think they're all there for.... perverted reasons, let them look at the demographics of what kid-avs are actually DOING, and just how many there actually ARE. Might shock some of these ppl out of their mistaken belifs about them.
[13:54]	:	Oh, I just mean... provide the information tfor those that could use it.
[13:54]	:	do you actually know what is most commen related to 'sex'? furriy avitars
[13:54]	:	not human avitars
[13:54]	:	Yeah, I know about that one too.
[13:54]	:	Enigma Bombay I presume you have seniority here!
[13:54]	:	Holy moly it's been awhile!
[13:54]	:	lol Torley, I'm also Beryl Greenacre. :)
[13:54]	:	haha yes :)
[13:55]	:	go to a furry sim and you most likely see the most run around with their parts attached and shown
[13:55]	:	:D
[13:55]	:	btw torley the london, UK sim dosent alow child avs and its a dumping ground for noobs when they first rez
[13:55]	:	I remember when Torley started in SL... ;)
[13:55]	:	for human avi;s you got more clear rules to make them at least invisible or detach them
[13:55]	:	ha ha "Dumping Ground for noobs" = "InfoHub"
[13:55]	:	Hahaha. Hardly anyone recalls that now, Enigma.
[13:55]	:	And there are a lot of shops on he UK sim....
[13:55]	:	I gotta blog about Infohubs too, soon.
[13:55]	:	the UK has no say over SL :p
[13:56]	:	Oh man, I was at Ahern a couple nights ago... not fun :(
[13:56]	:	servers are in the US and from what i understood soon in the netherlands
[13:56]	:	Griefer magnets
[13:56]	:	"London England UK"? I don't know. Isn't that Resident-owned?
[13:56]	:	so the UK has no say what so ever :p
[13:56]	:	People used to be friendly and helpful at the Welcome Areas.
[13:56]	:	hey, you pays yer money,m you tkes your choices
[13:56]	:	I have literally heard of kid-avs showing up there to buy stuff... and being ejected out of the sim just because they're kid avs. "Gee, I was only here to buy some textures..."
[13:56]	:	The upside of a welcome area... you know people are going to be there. Alas, that's attractive for the same reasons to griefers. :(
[13:56]	:	they have this sign that says THIS IS A PG SIM ...NO CHIlD LKE AVATARS
[13:56]	:	the answer is to lock out avatars by height. sim owners can decide avatar hight, Child, Adult, then change the hight settings to have boundrys instead of a slide bar. that way there is no way out of a child avatar being detected from the sim settings.
[13:57]	:	Also, they will largely be relatively inexperienced
[13:57]	:	so the people coming in thin all pg sims dont alow child av's
[13:57]	:	child avitars are forbidden to go to such sims anyways, its in the ToS
[13:57]	:	Having a kid avatar is fine, it's what the kid avs do... owning a club, I've had kid avs IM me or my manager and ask if they could come in since they were "underage"... I won't play that game, I say they are welcome but they need to act like an adult.
[13:57]	:	lcoking someone out by height isnt very fair however?
[13:57]	:	or... think it was at least
[13:57]	:	torley?
[13:57]	:	i have several friends who have very short AV's, but are not child avatars
[13:57]	:	Phase, I've heard that one come up many times. But wait a minute, there are adult tinies!
[13:58]	:	point taken.. was a speculation suggestion type thing
[13:58]	:	Yeah, tat IS a problem: Let's not vectore an old prejeduce to new ppl....
[13:58]	:	Xaria, clarify?
[13:58]	:	And what about the Tinies.
[13:58]	:	but you can run around there in a short bunneh av and use a child ao and talk like a 3 year old and no one blinks an eye
[13:58]	 	loves tinies
[13:58]	:	@ Torley: [13:57] Xaria Mistwallow: child avitars are forbidden to go to such sims anyways, its in the ToS
[13:58]	:	yeah us oompa loompas too
[13:58]	:	I saw a thing online once about a guy who showed up as a short, space-alien at a sim... and got ejected because the simoner wasn't allowing kid-avs and he didn't want to take any chances that that space alien might, possibly be a kid-av just by his hight.
[13:59]	:	6ft tall teenagers however...
[13:59]	:	Xaria, still unclear what you mean by "such sims".
[13:59]	:	yoshiko, what do you understand under child avitars? just small avitars like adam is using now? or also tinies?
[13:59]	:	It was just.... stupid and made the simowner a laughingstock
[13:59]	:	For every generalization there's a counterpoint... or an Oompa Loompa!
[13:59]	 	imagines Stilt sales going up this year... lol
[13:59]	:	xaria, exactly
[13:59]	:	such sims = adult/sex sims
[13:59]	:	Nathan, that made it all over Reddit and Digg, I think.
[13:59]	:	well a child avatar in my opinion is some one rp'ing as a child
[14:00]	:	But, if there genuinely IS some kind of belief that "PG means no kid-avs," that needs to be squelched in the docs
[14:00]	:	i have a feeling this is more against tiny avitars in general, not just real child avi's
[14:00]	:	There is confusion between the age of the account holder and the apparent age of the avatar.
[14:00]	:	then i am mistaken :p
[14:00]	:	luckaly
[14:00]	:	even smaller now..........
[14:00]	:	but i cant for the life of me figure out what theat realy means and why its such a bad thing
[14:00]	:	so why do you hate child avi's so much?
[14:00]	:	It's such a touchy business regulating adults in roleplay; I prefer to tell people the naughty bits must be covered, eject anyone who gets nasty or angry with others, and let everyone else do as they please.
[14:00]	:	the smallest avatar I have is 'the brain' from pinky and the brain
[14:01]	:	isnt it a part of creativity?
[14:01]	:	me hate child av's?
[14:01]	:	Xaria, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay :)
[14:01]	:	Think of it like this. Linden makes big claims for the beneficial effects of "presence" on inworld meetings. Well, that goes both ways. Having an apparent 6-year old around can make you feel funny
[14:01]	:	i have made no such statement
[14:01]	:	Yeah, one should not eject someone based on someting they may or may not be doing on Some Other Sim if there's no sign they're gfoing to be doing such things on YOUR sim
[14:01]	:	Note: Merely having a childlike avatar does not violate this policy. It is not our intent to banish childlike avatars in and of themselves.
[14:01]	:	Adamburp, you have some hilarious avatars here.
[14:01]	:	a quote from the ToS
[14:01]	:	thanks torley
[14:01]	:	A profound and at times chilling observation, Mojito.
[14:01]	:	i ma in suport of nathan on the strangeness of some sims issues with it
[14:01]	:	Mojito, I concur. I've had that uneasy feeling.
[14:02]	:	clearly NOT forbidden to have them
[14:02]	:	sorry torley, jsut backing up the point re height of avatars
[14:02]	:	Toilet paper too? LOL.
[14:02]	:	If you are in doubt as to whether an activity may be interpreted as ageplay, we request you err on the side of caution and desist. Please note that some countries' laws may impose penalties for graphics, drawings, or anime that resemble child pornography, even where no children have been involved.
[14:02]	:	The "presence" effect Linden points to is very real. And I think it may be ayt the core of this issue.
[14:02]	:	Some sims go to great lengths to control their environment; I suppose if they are paying the tier, it's up to them as this is all privately owned.
[14:02]	:	Well, it's been fun everyone, but to rhyme, I must run. Or more accurately, teleport onwards to further work. Thanks for hanging out with me!
[14:02]	:	There was a whole episode of the Milk and Kookies show (a sort of in-wolrd podcast thingy of and about and by the kid-av community)
[14:02]	:	so only if there is a real child involved, LL can do something. as i understand it correctly
[14:02]	:	about this issue
[14:03]	:	thanks for having us torley!
[14:03]	:	was fun again!
[14:03]	:	FRIENDLY GOODBIES!
[14:03]	:	Bye-bye for now and hope to see you next week, same time, same place and all that jazz! *guitar riff*
[14:03]	:	lol adam
[14:03]	:	nice to see you, Torley :)
[14:03]	:	toley can i have your bear?
[14:03]	:	MOST FRIENDLY GOODBYEZZZZZ!!!!
[14:03]	:	say hi to the team for me!
[14:03]	:	In fact, they talkeda ll about that UK sim thing on it. It was some weeks back tho.... and I don't remember which episode it was
[14:03]	:	byes
[14:03]	:	friendly bye byes!
[14:03]	:	bye <3 (bye <3)
 
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