FanLib Forum Discussion May-June 2007

FanLib Forum Discussion May-June 2007 is a discussion on FanLib's forum.
It includes questions by fans about the for-profit endeavor, with some questions answered by FanLib's TPTB.
The discussion starts off fairly neutral, and FanLib's owners are congenial as they reply with PR-ish responses, but it doesn't take long for that to change. Fans asked more and more pointed questions, and FanLib's PTB's answers changed as well. 
For more about the forum itself, see FanLib's Fan Forum, and FanLib's Official Blog.
==Some Context==
FanLib was one of several for-profit endeavors between 2007-2008 with a goal of making money from fanfiction and other fanworks. Some of these companies were owned and operated by fans, but FanLib was not. Its owners were a group of male investors whose fannish experience was non-existent, or was very different.
While there were other companies during this time that operated with profit in mind, such as Fanfiction.net, Quizilla, and Firefox News.
Fan History Wiki and resulting wank and disruption was heavy on fan minds. Strikethrough, something that began during this time, was also a flashpoint.
All of these things, combined with the increasing visibility of fandom and fanworks, set the stage for the formation of The Organization of Transformative Works, and Archive of Our Own.
==The Links==
*page 1 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
*page 2 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
*page 3 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
*page 4 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
*page 5 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
*page 6 (Subject: ?'s about the site itself)
* page 3 (Subject: Re:fanlib.com ruckus) 
* another list of Wayback links to navigate
==FanLib PTB Names==
* jdsampson (employee, fandom beard)
* holly9000 (forum moderator)
* mimbo (Chris Williams) (founder and owner)
*davidbw (David Williams) (founder and owner)
==Some Topics Discussed==
* the increased visibility of fandom and fanworks and how this was dangerous
* some fans were angry that are fans are being "the face of fandom" and speaking for everyone
* [David Williams, one of FanLib's founders] tagline is "Write something, even if it's a suicide note." 
* a link to the cease and desist letter to The Slayer's Fanfic Archive
* discussion about other for-profit fan sites such as Fanfiction.net 
* [darkrose]: "I'm going to be really blunt here, Mr. Williams: You're in a hole. Stop digging."
* the site's confusing, contradictory, and poorly-spelled Terms of Service:
: [David Williams, one of FanLib's founders]: "There are some very valid points in these postings and we take them very seriously. We now realize our FAQ and Terms of Service are not good expressions of our intentions. This is why we are currently revising our FAQ and reviewing our TOS."
* entertainment companies used to be against fanfiction but that has changed
: [David Williams, one of FanLib's founders]: "There was certainly a time some years back when the entertainment companies were more antagonistic toward fans. But, we're confident that times have changed and the existence of FanLib with our entertainment ties is a manifestation of that change. BTW, if you have any more info on this, I'd appreciate it. I searched Google and Wikipedia, but couldn't find anything."
* the business model and how planned to be built on the backs of women and their free labor: 
: [bereginy]: "I mean, what did they expect us (fandom) to say? 'Thank you, O Unknown Men With No Fandom Backgrounds, for bringing an air of legitimacy to our forty-year-old tradition of women's writing! Without you, why, we wouldn't have known what to do with ourselves! My, what a big TOS you have!' It's the gendered exploitation that gets me. I don't care what that corporate shill Jdsampson says. There's a reason why people are so upset about this and it has everything to do with women's community efforts being exploited by big business via men."
* lack of respect for fandom history: 
: [jonquil]: "The fanfiction community is a well-established community, with over 30 years of history. It has its own culture, its own mores, and its own traditions. You didn't respect any of the above when you created your site. You didn't acknowledge the strong fanhistory against profiting from fanfic; you stereotyped fanfic writers as teenagers and college students; you put up ads that seemed to be targeted at adolescent males, but that in any case had nothing to do with the image that fanfiction writers have of themselves." 
* legalisms, it sounded like FanLib would make the money, but if legal trouble came up, would throw fans under the bus: 
: [hotpoint]: "I personally have no particular issue with Fanlib making money because someone wants to look at one of my Fics but the idea that posting a Fic here could in fact be detrimental to me, while the people making money from it have nothing to lose, is pretty iniquitous when you think about it. Fanlib by its very nature is bound to attract more corporate scrutiny than a not-for-profit site and if I'm going to help contribute to someone's profit margins I think they should be willing to do more than just wash their hands of the situation if the C&D; hits the fan."
 
* [David Williams, one of FanLib's founders]: 
: "[For-profit fan sites] want to make money by producing, distributing and exhibiting big entertainment. Not by monetizing fan fiction. They recognize that fan fiction is marketing for their high-margin wares. It's really a win-win that no one is incentivized to upset. Fans get a long creative leash and the studios get happy active customers who evangelize to the rest of the world."
* [David Williams, one of FanLib's founders]: 
: "it is so nice to actually be able to have a level-headed conversation about this with you. There is a lot of sound and fury out there and I really appreciate you hearing us out and making this discussion possible."
* TPTB saying things like: 
** "Enough for a PR biscuit?" 
** "If we just wanted money, we'd have started a site for porn or dieting or something."
** "...if you believe as we do that the positives for fandom will far outweight the negatives, then it's worth it."
** "At least we're not some corporate giant pretending to be some little fan hobbyist who's just scraping by. Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't be a little perturbed about this."
** "Okay, I'm going to stop myself from getting riled about this. You know, at least one of those other, seemingly hobbyist sites is currently running full-page interstitial ads. Very annoying; even more profitable. If you saw this site through ad buyer eyes instead of fan eyes, well... perception [insert grand canyon here] reality. I don't want to disparage anyone, but maybe we should get a little credit for being forthright. I sound riled, I know."
==More Comments by FanLib's Owners==
==More Comments by Fans==
==References==
Category:Meta on Fansites
Category:Fanfiction Meta
Category:Fandom & Profit Meta
Category:2007 Meta
Category:2007 Events