Mesh/Archive/2011-01-09

==Agenda==
# Qarl released the alpha version of the mesh deformer. He was talking about the need for a Boolean flag in the mesh data to determine whether the deformer would deform the mesh or not. Is adding such a flag a possibility or would it break existing content? Nalates Urriah
# People are suggesting that all bugs be reported in this JIRA: STORM-1716. Is this the best idea or should we use separate JIRA items for various bugs? Nalates Urriah 
# Linden Realms demonstrates auto attaching huds. Will the tools be expanded to cover other attachment points and be controllable by script? Ex: equipping game-related items could be handled by a hud instead of the player manually searching their inventory to attach. (Fenix Eldritch)
# Rod's blog says "we’ve seen more than a 16 percent adoption rate" for mesh. How accurate is that figure? And is it counting all the bots out there that are blind anyway.
# Anything in our future for non-avatar rigging?
# How is the Z Offset supposed to work? I am asking this question because I made some tests with the viewer Beta 3.2.5 (246958) with two tip toe feet (each with a Z offset of 0.1) and I had very strange results: sometimes I was into the floor with my feet, sometimes I was above the ground without my feet (after having them detached)... Example: I have two rigged meshes A and B, A has a Z Offset of +5 and B of -5. [Gael Streeter]
##What is happening if I wear A and then B ? 
##What is then happening if I remove B (still wearing A) ?
##Is the Z Offset managed by the Viewer or the Server ?
##Is it supposed to be shape independent ?
# (How) will Linden Labs support Blender's efforts to get Collada Export into a good shape? (Gaia Clary)
# Simple mesh objects or mesh objects with simple collision boxes seem to handle collision detection much better than prims. Is this true, and how do I, as a builder of vehicles, take advantage of this to the best effect? Would roads of simple mesh objects cause less physics-induced lag?
# Using viewer 3.2.6 (247277) I'm still not able to browse in the uploader for a custom physics model. The button is greyed out forever. TPV work fine, I assume they are based on an older version of the uploader. The Jira I filed about this disappeared and I never heard about it. (SH-2684) [Mikki Miles]
# Is it true that users need a registered credit card in order to be allowed to upload meshes ? Or is it sufficient to have a Paypal account ? (Gaia Clary)
# Which bones do we HAVE to provide per rigged object? (Gaia Clary)
==meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Mumbles (charlar.linden)
*CuriousJohn (curiousjohn)
*dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)
*ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Feynt Mistral (feynt.mistral)
*Gael Streeter (gael.streeter)
*Gaia Clary (gaia.clary)
*JIRA-helper (jira-helper)
*MartinRJ Undercroft (martinrj.undercroft)
*Medhue Simoni (medhue.simoni)
*Mikki Miles (mikki.miles)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Racush (racush.cheeky)
*Vincent Nacon (vincent.nacon)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday January 9, 2012==
[11:58]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Almost ready to start.
[12:00]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	The physics preview of mesh upload dialog was not fixed on 3.2.7..
[12:00]	Vincent Nacon 	seem to be fine to me
[12:00]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Uh, hello.
[12:00]	Vincent Nacon 	what part is not working?
[12:00]	Gael Streeter 	Hello
[12:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Big crowd today
[12:02]	Feynt Mistral 	Morning Vir
[12:02]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Lots of questions about things
[12:02]	Gaia Clary 	hi all
[12:02]	Vincent Nacon 	is there another meeting at other corner of the sim or something?
[12:02]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hiya Gaia
[12:02]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Hi Gaia
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Gaia
[12:02]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	one more minute
[12:02]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	There is a newcomer place there I think.
[12:02]	Prep Linden 	yo guys!
[12:02]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:03]	Vincent Nacon 	if so... this would be a bad place for this meeting
[12:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hiya Prep
[12:03]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	It's in the next sim over, diagonally.
[12:03]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Kinda
[12:03]	Vincent Nacon 	yeah... still bad
[12:03]	Prep Linden 	been awhile since I've been here
[12:06]	Vincent Nacon 	is that everyone?
[12:07]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	yeah, just a sec...
[12:07]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	and, we start...
[12:08]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#1 Qarl released the alpha version of the mesh deformer. He was talking about the need for a Boolean flag in the mesh data to determine whether the deformer would deform the mesh or not. Is adding such a flag a possibility or would it break existing content? Nalates Urriah
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	note: we might need another, a slider from 0 to 1.0 in strength.
[12:09]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	We are looking at Karls code and we are interested in his success. That said, how much work we can do for him is still under discussion. I can't make any promises.
[12:09]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yea, there was talk of a bias slider.
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	well... I guess setting slider to zero would "disable it"
[12:10]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I think he may also have some limits as to how much additional work he's willing to do - although I don't want to speak for him.
[12:10]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Can't you make this viewer side? Then the third party viewers can get it, and LL doesn't have to bother?
[12:11]	Gaia Clary 	i thought it IS viewer side ... no ?
[12:11]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	This really isn't the right place to talk in detail about karls work. He's not here.
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon 	I don't think the boolean is for him, it's for all potential wearers of mesh clothing.
[12:11]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ok, moving on...
[12:11]	Vincent Nacon 	Alve, it would have to be viewer side anyway
[12:11]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#2 People are suggesting that all bugs be reported in this JIRA: STORM-1716. Is this the best idea or should we use separate JIRA items for various bugs? Nalates Urriah
[12:11]	JIRA-helper 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1716
[12:12]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Karl has requested that everyone use that jira for all feedback/bugs on the deformer.
[12:12]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	k
[12:12]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Oz is trying to keep postings on topic so he doesn't drown in various discussions.
[12:12]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It's his call.
[12:13]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I think if you all have suggestions for how it might be better organized, you should suggest it to him.
[12:14]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	next item...
[12:14]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#3 Linden Realms demonstrates auto attaching huds. Will the tools be expanded to cover other attachment points and be controllable by script? Ex: equipping game-related items could be handled by a hud instead of the player manually searching their inventory to attach. (Fenix Eldritch)
[12:14]	Gael Streeter 	you did agree to integrate then his work into SL right ?
[12:14]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Moving the discussion out of JIRA is best.
[12:14]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Gael - he is workign within our Open Source contribution agreement.
[12:14]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I have a pretty old car with an auto attaching hud, so doesn't seem too new.
[12:15]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	We'll consider his work, like we do with everyone's
[12:15]	Gael Streeter 	ok
[12:15]	Vincent Nacon 	stay on topic please
[12:15]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	back to auto-attaching
[12:15]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Is fenix here?
[12:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	It ask permission though. Which is good.
[12:16]	Vincent Nacon 	I believe those features are going to be granted for content creators once accepted by LL with some kind of program
[12:16]	Vincent Nacon 	judging on what Rod had mentioned in his blog post
[12:16]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	program in what meaning of the word?
[12:17]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	That's idea I had from his blog post as well.
[12:17]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Application?
[12:17]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	So, we're scoping out the prototype work that was done for LR.
[12:17]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Ah.
[12:17]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It wasn't defined Davido.
[12:17]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	hold up on the program discussion for a sec
[12:17]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	presumably a social program/structure
[12:17]	Vincent Nacon 	maybe the auto attachment isn't part of that program... might be AI and other things
[12:17]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	We'll then make plans for what we want to build and release to creators
[12:17]	Vincent Nacon 	k, sorry
[12:17]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Auto-attachment is on that list.
[12:18]	Medhue Simoni 	auto attach would be a problem if you have to register the hud to a website.
[12:18]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It's very cool, and when I get to the point of determining if we're going to work on it, I'll be soliciting feedback from Y'all
[12:18]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Here, probably.
[12:18]	Feynt Mistral 	Mmm, auto-attachments....
[12:18]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	lol
[12:18]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Imagine that in adult sim...
[12:18]	Feynt Mistral 	We just need to get auto-teleporting working then.
[12:19]	Vincent Nacon 	free penis for everyone! :P
[12:19]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	noooooo
[12:19]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	a hud penis?
[12:19]	Vincent Nacon 	I dunno
[12:19]	Feynt Mistral 	"You aren't dressed properly!" <slaps a penis on you>
[12:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	In your face?
[12:19]	Vincent Nacon 	whatever greifer thinks it's funny
[12:19]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	that's why we're doing the scoping.
[12:19]	Vincent Nacon 	yup
[12:19]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ok, moving on...
[12:19]	Feynt Mistral 	>3
[12:19]	Medhue Simoni 	scoping, penis
[12:19]	Feynt Mistral 	Yes, move away from the penis attachment jokes.
[12:20]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#4 Rod's blog says "we’ve seen more than a 16 percent adoption rate" for mesh. How accurate is that figure? And is it counting all the bots out there that are blind anyway.
[12:20]	Medhue Simoni 	bad combo, make me cringe
[12:20]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	16% sounds very little.
[12:20]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I'll give you some current stats now and try to give you some context on them
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	16% of what?
[12:20]	Medhue Simoni 	for sims, i would expect that to be good
[12:20]	Vincent Nacon 	it sounds about right to be fair but its already out of date as it has been growing faster
[12:20]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Yay numbers
[12:21]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	over 22% of regions on the grid has mesh objects rezzed on them. When Rod wrote his blog, it was over 16%.
[12:21]	Drongle McMahon 	mainland vs estate?
[12:21]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It's been consistently growing every day since release
[12:21]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	The entire grid
[12:21]	Vincent Nacon 	oh who cares... it's still growing anyway
[12:22]	Vincent Nacon 	muhaha!
[12:22]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Now, that means at least one mesh object is rezzed in a given region.
[12:22]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It doesn't mean the whole region is all mesh or anything
[12:22]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	That statistic feels to broad. Since so few people want to upgrade their viewers I made my Mesh ramp invisble, with a sculpty for the visuals.
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon 	Do you have figures on %-hours-on-mesh-enabled viewers
[12:23]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I think this is very positive, since we would never expect everything everywhere to be changed.
[12:23]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	much of the grid is fairly static.
[12:24]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	as for viewer stats...
[12:24]	Gael Streeter 	yes a very interesting number would be the number of users using mesh enabled viewer
[12:24]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I don't have the stat you want Drongle. It's a good stat and when I can get it, I will pass it on...
[12:24]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	What I do have is...
[12:25]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Currently we see about 60% of all sessions are with a mesh-enabled viewer.
[12:25]	Gael Streeter 	TY :-)
[12:25]	Medhue Simoni 	Gotta pick my son up. I just want to say tho, If LL wants there to be more games in SL, LL should consider hosting our servers that record all the data.
[12:25]	Drongle McMahon 	Good
[12:25]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	That's better than i thought.
[12:25]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	and about 2/3 of unique users are running a mesh viewer on a given day.
[12:25]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It's growing, the biggest bump was when Phoenix released support.
[12:26]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Dongle, the most interesting stat is indeed total duration, like you asked.
[12:26]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Finally, Marketplace sales are also increasing, regularly, every day.
[12:27]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	That's all I have. Hope they're interesting to you all.
[12:27]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I am getting a Mesh queue message, I was told it's a bug where something gets clogged so you don't get new Meshes downloaded. Could be why Vir Linden is invisible to me.
[12:27]	Gaia Clary 	is there a counterpart statistics for falling interest of sculüpties ... ?
[12:27]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Uh, I menat Prep
[12:27]	Vir Linden 	dI'm just a prim model.
[12:27]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx for the numbers. They help.
[12:28]	Vincent Nacon 	Gaia, I'm sure sculpty aren't failing yet, more like normal prims that are failing anyway
[12:28]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Vir, I was supposed to write Prep, my fingers went of on their own. XD
[12:28]	Prep Linden 	I'm a mesh AlveKatt,
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	I think because we're using Firestorm we aren't loading new meshes properly as they arrive.
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	I had a similar issue with Charlar before the meeting. I would relog and he would load (partially or fully), but if he relogged I wouldn't see a good portion of his avatar.
[12:29]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	But I can see Racush fine. Awesome avi BTW.
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	I can't see Prep either, on SLV beta
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	Ah well then.
[12:30]	Vincent Nacon 	I think it's the server
[12:30]	Feynt Mistral 	Definitely not our faults.
[12:30]	Feynt Mistral 	We're just users. >3
[12:30]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Next...
[12:30]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#5 Anything in our future for non-avatar rigging?
[12:30]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	+1
[12:30]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	That's a broad question :-)
[12:31]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	the future is big
[12:31]	Gaia Clary 	ok, this year ?
[12:31]	Prep Linden 	You see me now ?
[12:31]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I think I can say there is something in the future for it.
[12:31]	Feynt Mistral 	Heh, I think the immediate is in relation to the pathfinding.
[12:31]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	:-)
[12:31]	Gaia Clary 	prep, i do not see you.
[12:31]	Vincent Nacon 	the question you should be asking is Avatar 2.0
[12:31]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Sorry, no.
[12:31]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	I see you prep
[12:32]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I would love to see shape creation look something akin to the Spore creature creator.
[12:32]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Really, what we'd want to do is abitrary skeletal animation.
[12:32]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	And that's BIG
[12:32]	Feynt Mistral 	If we have automated things moving around, can we have things besides daleks? Like say, armoured centurions patrolling back and forth with real patrolling walking action?
[12:32]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	but soo cool
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	Prep - collision skeleton, but nothing else
[12:32]	Gaia Clary 	what is arbitrary skeleton animation ?
[12:32]	Feynt Mistral 	I think that's the part we're looking for.
[12:32]	Gael Streeter 	good idea yes :-)
[12:32]	Feynt Mistral 	Arbitrary meaning (roughly) "whatever you want"
[12:33]	Gaia Clary 	does that include my own bones ?
[12:33]	CuriousJohn 	what's up little people
[12:33]	Feynt Mistral 	Yes
[12:33]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	It's the ability to create bones, joints, basically not limited to the SL avatar
[12:33]	Vincent Nacon 	you mean like CuriousJohn's head?
[12:33]	Gaia Clary 	yesss!!
[12:33]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	CuriousJohn, you're freaking me out
[12:33]	Feynt Mistral 	Heh
[12:33]	Vincent Nacon 	his head is out of joint
[12:33]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Woot.
[12:33]	CuriousJohn 	I hope you are, bro.
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Anyway, it's on our backlog, but it's large and low on the list.
[12:34]	Feynt Mistral 	Aww
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	sorry
[12:34]	CuriousJohn 	I'm a BAWS
[12:34]	Drongle McMahon 	Oh no.
[12:34]	Feynt Mistral 	But... but... patrolling NPCs... D<
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	next item...
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I know Feynt
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I want all the same stuff you all do.
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	but
[12:34]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	we only have so many resources, and so much time
[12:35]	Vincent Nacon 	you should give your ideas or opinion in talk page of this http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_2.0
[12:35]	Feynt Mistral 	Scratch the bug fixing divisions until it's done. >D
[12:35]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	# 6 How is the Z Offset supposed to work (1) ? [Gael Streeter]
[12:35]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I think sculpties will remain, due to the sculptie animation thing.
[12:35]	Prep Linden 	The z offset is a "fix-up" value for an exported rig that contains a pelvis position that is not at the default skeletal position.
[12:35]	Prep Linden 	I would suggest as an initial step importing your rig without any z offset. The z offset's iteration value is hampered by the fact that there is no ground plane in the importer preview window.
[12:35]	Gael Streeter 	the end of the question is at the end of the list...
[12:35]	Vincent Nacon 	and prim count
[12:36]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Gael - you mean this:
[12:36]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	(1) Example: I have two rigged meshes A and B, A has a Z Offset of +5 and B of -5. What is happening if I wear A and then B ? What is then happening if I remove B (still wearing A) ?
[12:36]	Gael Streeter 	yes ;-)
[12:36]	Drongle McMahon 	Arbitrary skeleton animation is surely needed for npcs in games?
[12:37]	Feynt Mistral 	Unless you want bot accounts wandering around.
[12:37]	Prep Linden 	Gael: k , do you have a sample asset that I could take a look at - because it should be consistently applied.
[12:37]	Feynt Mistral 	That doesn't resolve octopus monsters in games though with mighty fighty tentacle action. >O
[12:38]	Prep Linden 	In general:
[12:38]	Prep Linden 	I would suggest as an initial step importing your rig without any z offset. The z offset's iteration value is hampered by the fact that there is no ground plane in the importer preview window.
[12:38]	Gael Streeter 	I have a version of tip toe feet yes with both the same Z offset I can send them to you
[12:38]	Prep Linden 	yeah - send me the .dae file ( prep@lindenlab.com)
[12:39]	Gael Streeter 	I can only send you the inported meshes
[12:39]	Prep Linden 	Gael : let me IM you.
[12:39]	Gael Streeter 	ok
[12:39]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ok, thanks Prep
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	# 7 (How) will Linden Labs support Blender's efforts to get Collada Export into a good shape? (Gaia Clary)
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Moving on
[12:40]	Vincent Nacon 	ha!
[12:40]	Drongle McMahon 	Nicely put, Gaia.
[12:40]	Gaia Clary 	does that mean "dont care" ?
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	no - chat lag
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	lol
[12:40]	Vincent Nacon 	it's Blender's problem
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I'm getting caught up with the issue, Gaia
[12:40]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Moving on was supposed to be first, then Agenda item
[12:41]	Gaia Clary 	ok :)
[12:41]	Feynt Mistral 	On that topic, when will LL fix chat lag? >D
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	oh, did I say chat lag?
[12:41]	Feynt Mistral 	(rhetoric)
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I meant....
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	something else
[12:41]	Feynt Mistral 	>D
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	:-)
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	anyway
[12:41]	Vincent Nacon 	Blender need to resort their issue, but I don't think LL should try fix the mistake that they didn't make
[12:41]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	We may contact blender just so they understand our interest.
[12:42]	Vincent Nacon 	but we still have Google's SketchUp anyway
[12:42]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	We did do that with Google, around sketchup
[12:42]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	but I need to go read the blender threads first.
[12:42]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	before promising anything
[12:42]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Blender is open source, I think one way or another, you probably ow them for making it weasy and affordable to create content to SL.
[12:42]	Vincent Nacon 	ok but there are more issue with Blender's update than DAE alone...
[12:42]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	-w
[12:43]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	The forum thread was helpful, and I think it also helped clear up some of the confusion amongst creators about what is happening.
[12:43]	Gaia Clary 	if i can do anything, just ask me. i am in contact with all ionvolved persons :)
[12:43]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	great Gaia
[12:43]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I will do exactly that.
[12:43]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	:-)
[12:43]	Gaia Clary 	and they .. sort of listen to me lol
[12:43]	Drongle McMahon 	Domino will save us.
[12:44]	Vincent Nacon 	haven't seem him in a while
[12:44]	Gaia Clary 	as always
[12:44]	Gaia Clary 	Domino is working behinf the scenes.
[12:44]	Gaia Clary 	i have to constantly keep him from working too much
[12:44]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Domino is beyond awesome.
[12:44]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	He chimed in on the SL thread
[12:44]	Feynt Mistral 	More fic stuff?
[12:45]	Vincent Nacon 	stop pretending to be Prok Neva
[12:45]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ok, I'll talk with Gaia offline.
[12:45]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	moving on
[12:45]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#8 Simple mesh objects or mesh objects with simple collision boxes seem to handle collision detection much better than prims. Is this true, and how do I, as a builder of vehicles, take advantage of this to the best effect? Would roads of simple mesh objects cause less physics-induced lag?
[12:46]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Who asked this question?
[12:46]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Was me.
[12:46]	Vincent Nacon 	Alve I think
[12:46]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	because we're not able to answer it - -great
[12:46]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Forgot to sign, sorry.
[12:46]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Alve, I'll have to put you in touch with Falcon. He'd be able to address your questions the best.
[12:47]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Ok. Thank you.
[12:47]	Feynt Mistral 	>D
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Charlar came in as a human today just so he wouldn't get stumped...
[12:47]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I'm going to say that there isn't any inherent advantage in collision with mesh objects, although it may be because you have more flexibility with defining the collision object.
[12:47]	dahlia1337 resident (dahlia.trimble)	roads are mostly simple cubes and are probably just a bounding box in the physics engine, as they are in OpenSimulator
[12:47]	Vincent Nacon 	I can say that Mesh haven't been given same treatment with prim in damping the physic collision
[12:47]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	nice one Nal!
[12:47]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	well done
[12:48]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	:p
[12:48]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	My theory is that it is because you can make mesh objects much simpler than prims, just a theory though.
[12:49]	Vincent Nacon 	so mesh are prones to "jumping"
[12:49]	Drongle McMahon 	.. but you meant "woodn;t get stumped"
[12:49]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	moving on...
[12:49]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	nice Dongle...
[12:49]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#9 Using viewer 3.2.6 (247277) I'm still not able to browse in the uploader for a custom physics model. The button is greyed out forever. TPV work fine, I assume they are based on an older version of the uploader. The Jira I filed about this disappeared and I never heard about it. (SH-2684) [Mikki Miles]
[12:49]	Vir Linden 	This was closed because we thought it was fixed.
[12:50]	Mikki Miles 	not for me :-(
[12:50]	Vir Linden 	If you still see the problem, please reopen and attach info about reproducing
[12:50]	Vir Linden 	including specific model if it matters.
[12:50]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ok, moving on...
[12:50]	Mikki Miles 	it includes everything I already uploaded succesfully before
[12:51]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#10 Is it true that users need a registered credit card in order to be allowed to upload meshes ? Or is it sufficient to have a Paypal account ? (Gaia Clary)
[12:52]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	My card is debit only, but it's still a Visa, I guess.
[12:52]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Any billing valid for buying things (premium account, $L) should work
[12:52]	Vincent Nacon 	long as you have personal info to confirm with
[12:52]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	I have tested it with Paypal and it worked for me...
[12:52]	Gaia Clary 	there was runours that only a credit card was accepted.
[12:52]	Gaia Clary 	ah ok.
[12:52]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	If you see an issue, I'd love to have a JIRA
[12:52]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Mumbles, was that on your Linden account?
[12:53]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	no, I have a whole set of sekrit alts out there as well.
[12:53]	Gaia Clary 	ok, so paypal alone would be sufficient...
[12:53]	Feynt Mistral 	tester01 Linden, tester02 Linden, tester03....
[12:53]	Vincent Nacon 	a whole set? more for me to set on fire!
[12:53]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	haha
[12:54]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	you've figured me out!
[12:54]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	none are trees
[12:54]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	/me nods. Have a feeling you have some perks on the Linden account. You are blue on the map, for one.
[12:54]	Gaia Clary 	charlar, i have just added a last quesxtion ... )
[12:54]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	That's why I asked.
[12:54]	Gael Streeter 	loool Gaia ;-)
[12:54]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	ahh - gaia, thanks
[12:54]	Gaia Clary 	well...
[12:54]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	#11 Which bones do we HAVE to provide per rigged object? (Gaia Clary)
[12:55]	Gaia Clary 	isnt that THE QUESTION of all nowadays ?
[12:55]	Feynt Mistral 	/me nods
[12:55]	Feynt Mistral 	I actually have a somewhat related question.
[12:55]	Vincent Nacon 	put it on the wiki already
[12:55]	Vincent Nacon 	muhaha!
[12:55]	Prep Linden 	At least one.
[12:55]	Gaia Clary 	and why do my importsd only work if i add 21 ?
[12:55]	Prep Linden 	A lot of the import details are here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Exporting_a_mesh_from_3ds_Max
[12:55]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Maybe we should elect a wikiupdater, that updates the wiki as we get answers in the user groups...
[12:56]	Prep Linden 	Gaia: because you have more then 1.
[12:56]	Feynt Mistral 	COLLADA 1.4 supports animations, is there any chance we can get those into SL instead of relying on BVH which is kind of hard to export properly from some modern 3d software?
[12:56]	Gaia Clary 	Prep... i am asking because my meshes ponly get uploaded if i have a very clearly defined set of bones in my mesh.
[12:56]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	If you don't have the 21 it won't upload.
[12:56]	Gaia Clary 	if one of them is missoing, the weights checkmark greys out.
[12:57]	Vincent Nacon 	BVH isn't hard
[12:57]	Vincent Nacon 	it's basic of animation
[12:57]	Prep Linden 	gaia: are you trying to upload a full skeleton?
[12:57]	Gaia Clary 	Prep, no
[12:57]	Gaia Clary 	just the head
[12:57]	Gaia Clary 	or whatever.
[12:57]	Feynt Mistral 	BVH is mocap animation. Blender doesn't export it properly for SL purposes and requires a hack involving tracking empties. o.o
[12:57]	Gaia Clary 	any attachment wont work except it contains 21 weight groups
[12:58]	Feynt Mistral 	As far as I know, 3DS Max doesn't export BVH either, only import.
[12:58]	Vincent Nacon 	/me ,<--non Blender person for a reason...
[12:58]	Feynt Mistral 	But I could be wrong, last I used was 3DS Max 9.
[12:58]	Prep Linden 	gaia: let me look at that. File a jira for me - and include your asset (if possible or email it to me prep@...)
[12:58]	Vincent Nacon 	it does
[12:58]	Medhue Simoni 	nope, 3ds max doesn't import or export bvh
[12:58]	Vincent Nacon 	and poser
[12:58]	Gaia Clary 	here is the list of bones we have to provide: http://blog.machinimatrix.org/upload-issues-with-rigged-meshes/
[12:58]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Gaia, how do you get around it? Use overlapping?
[12:58]	Gaia Clary 	i guess it has been repotrted many times ...
[12:58]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	That does the same thing?
[12:58]	Gaia Clary 	at many places...
[12:59]	Gaia Clary 	i just add the missing weight groups. they are allowed to be empty.
[12:59]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Ah.
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	This issue of having 21 bones went away for one dev viewer but then came back.
[12:59]	Prep Linden 	Gaia: you have to provide them in the joint map - but they don't necessarily have to be "used."
[12:59]	Prep Linden 	Does that make sense?
[12:59]	Gaia Clary 	not to me.
[12:59]	Gaia Clary 	:(
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	when i have no joints offsets, just upload a mesh rigged to the default skleleton.
[13:00]	Feynt Mistral 	The vertex groups must match up.
[13:00]	Feynt Mistral 	If you don't have all the vertex groups labeled properly, it won't work.
[13:00]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	There seems like there is a parser involved?
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	i must provide 21 vertex groups.
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	nothing else helps.
[13:00]	Prep Linden 	Gaia: file a jira with an asset and I'll give you feedback on your asset.
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	yes. if i do ot provide the 21 groups, i get a parser error.
[13:01]	Gaia Clary 	Prep, ok ill do .
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	COLLADA animations, though?
[13:01]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	OK, folks, we're at time here.
[13:01]	Vir Linden 	Have to run. Bye all!
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	More options is better.
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Gaia: Could you post that JIRA to the forum please?
[13:01]	Gael Streeter 	Thank you bye
[13:01]	Gaia Clary 	Asha, yes i will
[13:01]	Medhue Simoni 	cya guys
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks for the meeting
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	nIGHT.
[13:01]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	If you want to listen in to Prep and Gaia, please stick around
[13:01]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	bye
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks Gaia
[13:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	See you
[13:02]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Otherwise, thanks!
[13:02]	Prep Linden 	Gaia: that might be a bug - the weight bug might not be valid or some one made it valid since I've been away.
[13:02]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	i'll stick around to capture the convo for the meeting notes
[13:02]	Vincent Nacon 	alrighty, thanks. Take care all
[13:02]	Prep Linden 	Gaia: by mistake that is. Once I have your asset I can tell for sure.
[13:03]	Gaia Clary 	ok, i will provide something later tonight. in an hour or so...
[13:03]	Prep Linden 	cool - thanks for the feedback.
[13:03]	Prep Linden 	Thanks folks, see you later!
[13:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Prep
[13:04]	MartinRJ Undercroft 	goodbye
[13:04]	Gaia Clary 	bye and thanks :)
[13:04]	Mikki Miles 	bye
[13:04]	Medhue Simoni 	ok, now i understand the chat about animations
[13:04]	Medhue Simoni 	lol
[13:04]	Medhue Simoni 	cya ev1
[13:05]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Medhue
[13:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	see hlj
[13:05]	Mumbles (charlar.linden) 	Byeeee!
[13:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	See you!
[13:05]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Yuzuru :)
[13:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Next week Charkar!
[13:05]	Drongle McMahon 	Bye everyone
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