Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-03-27

A[22:05:07] Caleb Linden: thanks rex
A[22:05:38] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
A[22:05:40] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex. I could read server ug.
A[22:06:13] Rex Cronon: u r welcome guys:)
A[22:06:22] Caleb Linden: Let's get started. The only new server build this week was deployed on RC Magnum.
A[22:06:42] Caleb Linden: A brief description is listed here https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/14#14.03.12.288004
A[22:08:22] Caleb Linden: Before we are going to the spam fun, is there anything you would like to discuss? baker, do you have any updates on your end?
A[22:09:52] Baker Linden: Uhh, yeah,
A[22:10:05] Lucia Nightfire: I have a request, heh
A[22:10:05] Baker Linden: from the wiki, I pushed a new version of the group ban viewer
A[22:10:32] Baker Linden: but unfortunatly, it's still a tad unstable. I don't know how I managed to mess up the merge this bad
A[22:10:36] Baker Linden: but I think I lost some code
A[22:10:41] Baker Linden: well, I'm sure I lost some code
A[22:10:49] Baker Linden: so I'm trying to go back and fix all that
A[22:10:53] Jodi Nikolaidis: hehe .stil wearig same outfit I was wearign for the SSA tests.
A[22:10:54] Baker Linden: but it's coming along
A[22:11:04] Lucia Nightfire: can we please not have non-sensitive BUG's transfered to non-accessible categories, Example: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5250
A[22:11:21] Lucia Nightfire: but theres been several more too
A[22:12:03] Lucia Nightfire: instead of tx them, please do liek MAINT cat's are done, which is like a dupe, heh
A[22:12:47] Lucia Nightfire: also, I look forward to when Triagers can comment on closed BUG's, heh
A[22:12:50] Caleb Linden: what does tx stand for?
A[22:12:52] Lucia Nightfire: again
A[22:12:53] Simon Linden: hmm ... I don't understand why that's now inaccessible to you, but I'll pass that along to some of the jira wizards
A[22:13:01] Lucia Nightfire: tx = Transfer, heh
A[22:13:16] Whirly Fizzle: They move to LDPW instead of cloing and moving the clone
A[22:13:22] Whirly Fizzle: *clone
A[22:13:28] Lucia Nightfire: LDPW cat's aren't Traiger accessible afaik
A[22:13:37] Simon Linden: ah right ...no, they wouldn't be
A[22:13:47] Lucia Nightfire: theres other cats taht are used too for BUG tx's
A[22:14:21] Simon Linden: I'll send an email about cloning and moving the clone instead of just cloning
A[22:14:34] Lucia Nightfire: yay, ty
A[22:15:03] Whirly Fizzle: I cant remember what 5250 was. Was it the "phantom" bit of mole road one?
A[22:15:32] Lucia Nightfire: Mesh/Prim HUDs over 32 land impact will not auto attach on experience viewer
A[22:15:39] Whirly Fizzle: Oh yeah
A[22:15:58] Simon Linden: It's strangely reassuring that you can't remember the content of a bug report by the number, Whirly
A[22:16:21] Lucia Nightfire: more human than human
A[22:16:35] Whirly Fizzle: lol I dont usually remember the numbers. I remember thr titles so I can find in search fast :D
A[22:16:40] Theresa Tennyson: Someone could re-light the Flame of Jira.
A[22:16:44] Whirly Fizzle: Retitle an issue and Im screwed hehe
A[22:17:04] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I hate retitles too
A[22:17:05] Lucia Nightfire: esp when they're titled so something more obscured
A[22:17:19] Lucia Nightfire: like that Phantom jira I filed
A[22:17:53] Whirly Fizzle: Oh yeah. That got Oz'd :P
A[22:19:00] Simon Linden: ok, I sent an email about that, Lucia. I think it was just an error in doing the right procedure
A[22:24:29] Simon Linden: well, if it's going to be this quiet, let's start the group test ... but wait one second ....
A[22:25:20] Simon Linden: it stresses group chat more when you cross regions, so please add a few TPs or maybe go to the edge and cross back and forth a few times
A[22:25:24] Theresa Tennyson: Really not too much to talk about server-side. Things to take about viewer-side but the viewer techs hide.
A[22:25:58] Simon Linden: I'll run this for a couple of minutes ... that should be long enough to get a few numbers
A[22:26:18] Simon Linden: Use "Group Chat Chat" or "Group Chat Test" groups - IM me if you need an invite
A[22:26:32] Yuzuru Jewell: Can I type Japanese?
A[22:26:52] Simon Linden: dozo
A[22:26:56] Jodi Nikolaidis: No such group as Group Chat Chat showing in search ?
A[22:26:59] Yuzuru Jewell: arigatou!
A[22:27:16] Simon Linden: search info might be old or stale, I'll invite you
A[22:27:22] Whirly Fizzle: secondlife:///app/group/fa943583-23f5-3242-da23-52024f1e05c4/about and secondlife:///app/group/19e6bef4-74bc-242c-e49f-94815cb3b494/about
A[22:27:33] Simon Linden: ... or click that :P
A[22:28:02] Jodi Nikolaidis: Group chat Test fails to initialize
A[22:28:39] Rex Cronon: it might be because spam is in motion.lol
A[22:28:44] Simon Linden: hmm - well it's running and getting hammered, lol
A[22:28:49] Jodi Nikolaidis: first uri there fails thank you load at all.
A[22:29:02] Simon Linden: I'll look in the logs for your error later
A[22:29:24] TankMaster Finesmith: wonder why its gewtting hammered...
A[22:29:52] Simon Linden: really in terms of volume we can reach what the full grid faces ... but this is helpful
A[22:30:07] Lucia Nightfire: why did my group chat sessions auto-close
A[22:30:08] Simon Linden: Im' going to fly between regions a bit
A[22:30:15] Lucia Nightfire: is this more Bear BS that was merged?
A[22:31:26] TankMaster Finesmith: oh hey, some got out of order!
A[22:31:29] TankMaster Finesmith: :D
A[22:32:05] Rex Cronon: some?
A[22:32:35] Simon Linden: ok thanks!!
A[22:32:59] Nalates Urriah: Changing groups caused me mini freezes
A[22:33:07] Inara Breen: Ditto
A[22:33:13] Zi Ree: Should I be getting group chat now? I joined "Group Caht Test".
A[22:33:25] Nalates Urriah: Second Life 3.7.4 (288138) Mar 15 2014
A[22:33:27] Simon Linden: Thanks, that's enough! Thanks, that's enough! Thanks, that's enough! Thanks, that's enough!
A[22:33:32] Whirly Fizzle: lol
A[22:33:41] Rex Cronon: i have a suggestion
A[22:33:46] Minuet Voir: awww phooey - I arrived too late
A[22:33:52] Simon Linden: ok, that hit it pretty good :)
A[22:33:57] Whirly Fizzle: woot
A[22:34:14] Rex Cronon: should we move near sim border and and cross it back and forth what spamming group chat?
A[22:34:21] Simon Linden: Thanks - I had some glitches after region crossing but it resumed after a bit
A[22:34:22] TankMaster Finesmith: haha
A[22:34:26] Lucia Nightfire: why did my grou pchat sessions close?
A[22:34:32] Rex Cronon: while spamming*
A[22:34:36] Simon Linden: The window closed, Lucia?
A[22:34:46] Lucia Nightfire: both groups clsoed
A[22:34:54] Theresa Tennyson: One of my reports might have been swallowed, but it was hard to tell.
A[22:34:59] Lucia Nightfire: please do nto tell me its mroe Bear protection BS taht got merged
A[22:34:59] Whirly Fizzle: I saw something weird. When I crossed regions & started typing in group chat again for 30 secs or so none of my chat posted. I didnt get the usual viewer warnings though.
A[22:35:17] Nalates Urriah: I had mini freezes that lasted 2 may be 5 seconds when changing groups. The entire viewer froze.
A[22:35:20] Whirly Fizzle: Once it started posting it was normal speed again
A[22:35:32] Jodi Nikolaidis: Chat Chat group kept timign out .. so couldnt post at al there.
A[22:35:36] Inara Breen: Again, what Nal said here as well.
A[22:35:39] Nalates Urriah: true for me too.
A[22:35:39] Simon Linden: I got a weird stall like that too, Whirly, after crossing a region
A[22:35:49] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, only after a region cross
A[22:36:00] Whirly Fizzle: Seemed to take a while to reconnect to the chat...
A[22:36:11] Whirly Fizzle: This didnt happen last week
A[22:36:14] Nalates Urriah: I didn't cross any region. I stayed here and got a freeze
A[22:36:39] Theresa Tennyson: When flying with a chat open the flow of text seemed continuous.
A[22:37:25] Lucia Nightfire: if I can repro the bug it will be a blocker, heh
A[22:37:36] Lucia Nightfire: as all group chat sessions I had open were auto-closed
A[22:37:44] Whirly Fizzle: On region cross?
A[22:37:47] Lucia Nightfire: no
A[22:37:51] Lucia Nightfire: just sitting here
A[22:37:51] Whirly Fizzle: Oh hmmm
A[22:37:58] Jodi Nikolaidis: Chta chat group keeps timign out .
A[22:37:59] Rex Cronon: i can't sent text to group chat
A[22:38:08] Rex Cronon: send*
A[22:38:10] Simon Linden: Let's do another short test .. this is some different code
A[22:38:15] Theresa Tennyson: Lucia, did you get any notifications?
A[22:38:15] Lucia Nightfire: I minimized the viewer did some work in teh background, then maximized it and all three groups sessiosn goen
A[22:38:28] Lucia Nightfire: I have nto notices, nothing
A[22:38:30] Minuet Voir: Could I get group invites please?
A[22:38:35] Lucia Nightfire: *no notices
A[22:38:48] Lucia Nightfire: no toasts
A[22:38:52] Lucia Nightfire: zippo, heh
A[22:38:55] TankMaster Finesmith: `
A[22:39:11] Rex Cronon: no
A[22:39:16] Minuet Voir: oh just local spammage
A[22:39:27] Lucia Nightfire: Rex' conncetion and/or comp can't take the pain
A[22:39:53] Rex Cronon: this is not group chat. come on
A[22:40:27] Rex Cronon: ùð§®2Œ1f�Gzïç÷kf©Ï�«²‡ø�Y�Wpl;²�’�Þb*
¢Â„9]nçç¾(�)ˆït§Ädº»ff.Ù
$ì,þXl}hH&
A[22:40:50] TankMaster Finesmith: sorry about that, somehow my chat focus got ontot the chat bar
A[22:41:14] Simon Linden: ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough! ok thanks that's enough!
A[22:41:39] Rex Cronon: why doesn't group chat accept the previous string?
A[22:41:49] Nalates Urriah: OPening Group Chat Test gives me long freeze and pasting into it is jerky.
A[22:42:04] Whirly Fizzle: Hm,m couldnt repro that region crossing weird ness that time
A[22:42:18] Rex Cronon: i can paste that into public chat but group chat doesn't a ccept it
A[22:42:19] Inara Breen: Pasting is fine, but opening the group chat windows does give bad freezes
A[22:42:24] Simon Linden: yeah, I saw that two on both tests ... I think there's a big viewer-side lag switching between groups if there's a bunch of messages queued up
A[22:42:33] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah
A[22:42:53] TankMaster Finesmith: its I/O with rteading the logs
A[22:43:19] Lucia Nightfire: Simon, did you make any recent change to the render weight calc/handling sent from the viewers?
A[22:43:24] Theresa Tennyson: Any Mac users here?
A[22:43:54] Rex Cronon: why doesn't group chat accept the following string:
A[22:43:59] Rex Cronon: ùð§®2Œ1f�Gzïç÷kf©Ï�«²‡ø�Y�Wpl;²�’�Þb*
¢Â„9]nçç¾(�)ˆït§Ädº»ff.Ù
$ì,þXl}hH&
A[22:44:03] Yuzuru Jewell: I use Mac, But now I use PC.
A[22:44:18] Simon Linden: Not intentionally, Lucia, but I've already been burnt once by a bad merge in another branch. Did something change?
A[22:44:36] TankMaster Finesmith: PSc are more gooderest
A[22:44:45] Theresa Tennyson: I know Mac users have been having major typing issues.
A[22:44:48] TankMaster Finesmith: PCs*
A[22:45:03] Lucia Nightfire: I've been seeing a lot of 500k readings from people entering regions lately, soem over 500k
A[22:45:31] Lucia Nightfire: I still can't use the metric though with it beign capped at all, lol
A[22:45:33] Yuzuru Jewell: Yes! Theresa. I heard that IM trouble on OSX.
A[22:45:36] Lucia Nightfire: just curious though
A[22:45:43] Zi Ree: Maybe fitted mesh gives some high readings?
A[22:45:43] Nalates Urriah: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Viewer/Text-chat-lag-keystroke-delay-issues-on-newer-CHUI-code/m-p/2571692
A[22:45:57] Rex Cronon: anything public chat accepts so should group chat
A[22:47:07] Whirly Fizzle: The Mac keystroke echo lag is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4121
A[22:47:08] Lucia Nightfire: now I'm getting several readings a day from peopel wearing normal stuff
A[22:47:12] Zi Ree: The render weight thing is not really reliable.
A[22:47:55] Rex Cronon: Unable to send your message to the chat session with...
Error making request. please try again later.
A[22:48:02] Zi Ree: :O
A[22:48:06] Jessica Lyon: Ohai!
A[22:48:10] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, its nto reliable at all
A[22:48:13] Jessica Lyon: did I miss the boat?
A[22:48:13] Minuet Voir: Heya Jess
A[22:48:17] Whirly Fizzle: Uoure late Jess :P
A[22:48:19] Rex Cronon: hi jessica
A[22:48:20] Lucia Nightfire: teh only thing reliable is gett a list of attached root keys
A[22:48:20] Jessica Lyon: because I hate swimming..
A[22:48:22] Jessica Lyon: darn it
A[22:48:22] Whirly Fizzle: *Youre
A[22:48:24] Theresa Tennyson: /me quickly stops talking aobut Firestorm.
A[22:48:29] Jessica Lyon: lolol
A[22:48:30] Lucia Nightfire: that request has been filed too btw, heh
A[22:48:33] Simon Linden: hmm, I didn't make any changes there but I'll see if I can figure out any reason why that changed
A[22:48:53] Minuet Voir: not see Jess's dress
A[22:48:56] Minuet Voir: seeing*
A[22:48:59] Jessica Lyon: workin on it!
A[22:49:09] Simon Linden: If you get any more info on that, or know of an unexpected change with an attachment or setting definitely let me know
A[22:49:10] Jessica Lyon: yay for alpha's though.. better than nakie is invisible!
A[22:49:19] Minuet Voir: if you're going to show up naked, just go for it
A[22:49:26] Jessica Lyon: lol
A[22:49:40] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2467 <--this is definitive toward detecting if someone has a lagger attached or not
A[22:49:55] Simon Linden: uh ... that's a general guideline, not for user group meetings
A[22:49:58] Lucia Nightfire: plus many other benefits
A[22:50:01] Rex Cronon: can anybody try to copy/paste following string into group chat:
A[22:50:04] Rex Cronon: ùð§®2Œ1f�Gzïç÷kf©Ï�«²‡ø�Y�Wpl;²�’�Þb*
¢Â„9]nçç¾(�)ˆït§Ädº»ff.Ù
$ì,þXl}hH&
A[22:50:21] Caleb Linden: nope
A[22:50:32] Whirly Fizzle: Reptod
A[22:50:36] Whirly Fizzle: *reprod
A[22:50:37] Lucia Nightfire: lol
A[22:50:42] Whirly Fizzle: Immediate error message
A[22:51:29] Rex Cronon: i don't thing group chat is supposed to give an error for that
A[22:51:44] Rex Cronon: don't think*
A[22:51:49] Zi Ree: The character after the "1f" in the first line breaks it.
A[22:51:52] Simon Linden: I totally understand why that function would help you solve that problem, Lucia, but there may be privacy issues about detecting what HUDs are around
A[22:51:55] Nalates Urriah: Rex I get error messages
A[22:52:23] Lucia Nightfire: which is why I requested it be land owner operated
A[22:52:28] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah it doesnt like �
A[22:52:34] Lucia Nightfire: and onyl return values for peopel over their land
A[22:53:07] Whirly Fizzle: Can you paste � into agni group chat?
A[22:53:09] Simon Linden: yep, I see the code is unhappy in the logs
A[22:53:11] Rex Cronon: i guess is not viewer related
A[22:53:14] Zi Ree: I can't see what character that is, I only see a square.
A[22:53:27] Whirly Fizzle: Its aun upward pointing arrow
A[22:53:30] Rex Cronon: i tried in different groups. none accept it
A[22:53:39] Simon Linden: that was on Agni, Rex?
A[22:53:51] Rex Cronon: i meant i tried the whole string not just that character
A[22:53:56] Theresa Tennyson: Unicode makes Baby Jesus cry.
A[22:54:10] Simon Linden: ok - if someone tries it on the main grid, let me know what you learn
A[22:54:36] Baker Linden: ùð§®2Œ1f�Gzïç÷kf©Ï�«²‡ø�Y�Wpl;²�’�Þb*
¢Â„9]nçç¾(�)ˆït§Ädº»ff.Ù
$ì,þXl}hH&
A[22:54:42] Rex Cronon: i just opened a png file in wordpad and copied a small section of it:)
A[22:54:46] Zi Ree: Same error on main grid.
A[22:55:43] Rex Cronon: i guess group chat hates png files:)
A[22:55:48] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm bet that character breaks login if its in your active group title
A[22:55:55] Simon Linden: Thanks for testing
A[22:56:43] Simon Linden: This helped out a lot today, thanks
A[22:56:49] Nalates Urriah: welcome
A[22:56:57] Zi Ree: It's so great to see some work being done on group chat finally!
A[22:57:07] Nalates Urriah: Thanks for being here
A[22:57:19] Rex Cronon: make a group using that character and invite all lindens to it and see if they can login anymore;)
A[22:57:53] Simon Linden: I'm cautiously optimistic I can increase the performance ... which should help reliablity. From what I can tell, it just can't handle the load at times
A[22:58:32] Zi Ree: It seems odd, though, because group chat is not magic and the volume should be rather low, really.
A[22:58:47] Theresa Tennyson: Would it be possible to have an end-user capability to reset ones avatar without being logged in? Clearing active group, gestures, COF, etc?
A[22:59:20] Rex Cronon: how u think it will handle a group with a few hundred of users connected to it if all type at same time:)
A[22:59:34] Zi Ree: Look at IRC.
A[22:59:36] Simon Linden: you know, that's an interesting idea, Theresa ... it would be a bunch of website work, as I can imagine it tied to your account pages
A[22:59:59] Theresa Tennyson: It sounds like the problem is not the hundred avatars, but the hundred regions they're standing on.
A[23:00:24] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah that would be really awesome. You can force reset COF pre login but you need to be on an RLV viewer to do it. But its needed because if someones COF gets corrupted they keep crashing at login & only other fix for it is LL support to purge the COF, which they wont do for basic accounts
A[23:00:31] Simon Linden: at a small scale group chat isn't that difficult a problem
A[23:00:37] Zi Ree: Group chat should not be handled by the region, that makes no sense.
A[23:00:58] Zi Ree: A dedicated chat server setup would work much better.
A[23:01:10] Kallista Destiny: but it needs to be since the chat server doesn't "know" where the avatar is.
A[23:01:23] Zi Ree: It doesn't need to know.
A[23:01:23] Simon Linden: but with possibly 42 groups per online AV, the numbers involved can start getting big
A[23:01:35] Jodi Nikolaidis: as I under stand the groupchat issue ..its not just the regions it has to keep track of but evey single parcel ?
A[23:01:40] Zi Ree: You just connect to a chat server and that's it.
A[23:02:00] Simon Linden: and you have to find those AVs to be able to send them the message
A[23:02:02] Zi Ree: Group chat and group capabilities are separate problems.
A[23:02:29] Zi Ree: The chat s4erver can just look up the group keys and permissions, and then work from there.
A[23:02:49] TankMaster Finesmith: can we up the group limit to 666?
A[23:02:49] Rex Cronon: in theory u could have a single server that holds a list of over a million avatars...
A[23:02:51] TankMaster Finesmith: :P