WindLight/Office Hours/2008-02-14

Spaceman Opus waits to thank torley for the tutorials in how to upload sounds and gestures
Mastorian Kingsford: meeting will be late due to extream choclate over doze and kissing and huging linden stresss :-)
Jeremy Linden: You're not kidding! I barely escaped from the kissing booth with my life.
Pastrami Linden: greetings all
Mastorian Kingsford: (waves)
Pastrami Linden: any questions just IM me
Jeremy Linden: Why is the world flat?
Jeremy Linden: Where do prim babies come from?
Keisha Ninetails: sculpty storks
Spaceman Opus: Prim babies come from Linden valentines day events
Jeremy Linden: Hey now... that's a PG region!
Jeremy Linden: Although I did see a baby there.
Spaceman Opus: :-O!
Jeremy Linden: Cupid Linden!
Pastrami Linden: [13:06] Mastorian Kingsford: on windlight it always makes land have a ocean in the distance how do i get my regular view since i live on land with no ocean its weairs seeing the water where my neighbors homes are?
Pastrami Linden: hmm
Pastrami Linden: are you talking about a draw distance issue?
Keisha Ninetails: lack of far clip fog maybe?
Mastorian Kingsford: i tried up to 256 range its still there i have a photo you should see homes and road but you see ocean instead
Pastrami Linden: hmm, you mean homes on your same sim, right?
Mastorian Kingsford: yeah
Pastrami Linden: and when you fly there they show up?
Mastorian Kingsford: see the view
Mastorian Kingsford: that should be snow and house
Mastorian Kingsford: houses
Pastrami Linden: oh I see
Mastorian Kingsford: that was with range at 256
BigPapi Linden: Do they appear in the release viewer?
Mastorian Kingsford: all the windlights yes even the new one
BigPapi Linden: aka, can you take a picture from the same spot in the release viewer
Mastorian Kingsford: that was the rc from last week in that pic
Harleen Gretzky: He means non-Windlight RC
Mastorian Kingsford: ?
Harleen Gretzky: If you use 1.19.0 RC is the view correct?
Mastorian Kingsford: this picture was from the one that was releshed last week it does it in the new windlight too
Keisha Ninetails: what does it look like in the non-windlight viewer though?
Harleen Gretzky: If you use a viewer that is not Windlight is it correct?
BigPapi Linden: Mastorian: How does it look like in a viewer that IS NOT Windlight?
Mastorian Kingsford: but the regular client is fine nope i took that shot the night i got it
Mastorian Kingsford: i have normal land views
BigPapi Linden: Can you create a PJIRA bug report with that picture and the same picture but taken with a NON WindLight viewer?
BigPapi Linden: So we can see the difference and attempt to debug it
BigPapi Linden: Oh, a landmark to that location would help as well.
Harleen Gretzky: include the location too :)
Jeremy Linden: SLURL power!
Mastorian Kingsford: yeah but where im standing is my land im on a hill below should be the road a gas stations and hoses
Mastorian Kingsford: the green roof is the gas station
Jack666 Carter: it looks to me like simple-rendering is turned off, Mastorian... did you check that ?
Keisha Ninetails: you can see the effects of this right now in windlight just by reducing your draw distance to 64
BigPapi Linden: Mastorian, please create the jira report with correct and incorrect pictures from that location as well as a landmark to that exact location and we'll take a look at it.
Pastrami Linden: [13:06] Spaceman Opus: Can we expect a new WL viewer to catch up with the new RC?
Pastrami Linden: yes Spaceman, in the next day or two
Spaceman Opus: kewl :_)
Pastrami Linden: queue is empty- any other q's?
Jeremy Linden: What time is it in Tibet?
Pastrami Linden: now
Pastrami Linden: hey Jeremy where are we?
WidgetHUD v1.1: Pastrami Linden has pinged you.
Pastrami Linden: here
Jeremy Linden: Answered your own question. Not too hard, eh?
Mastorian Kingsford: lmao
Pastrami Linden: [13:17] Harleen Gretzky: Any progress on the planar texture bug?
Pastrami Linden: yes, it's fixed
Jeremy Linden: (I, on the other hand, am here: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Brampton/111/156/27)
Pastrami Linden: but will probably be a release or wto before it's out
Harleen Gretzky: you guys are quick as usual :)
Pastrami Linden: we try
Jack666 Carter: thx Guy... whatever it is ;)
Gerry Wakowski: whew....
Gerry Wakowski: big dude
Mastorian Kingsford: lol sl has been a hotbed for inworld ads this week imgeting ims for ads and lms haha
Pastrami Linden: anything else?
Pastrami Linden: la la la
PulseBurst Flow: well, if there are no questions, and not to beat a dead horse, has anyone else here, or any lindens had there Mac computers lock up when resizing the window in Windlight? ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3485 )
Pastrami Linden: Papi- have a look- 10.5.2 related?
PulseBurst Flow: No, it's Tiger.
PulseBurst Flow: 10.4.11
BigPapi Linden: Is that the latest version of Tiger?
PulseBurst Flow: yes
BigPapi Linden: We'll check if anyone has a similar machine to test on internally
Pastrami Linden: [13:21] Keisha Ninetails: OH! so we don't break tradition. Is there any word on LSL and glow?
Pastrami Linden: it's basically just in the rlease queue now
Jack666 Carter giggles.
BigPapi Linden: haha. Nice, Keisha!
Keisha Ninetails: lol, couldn't resist, sorry
PulseBurst Flow: BTW, Guy, I'd appreciate not getting spammed with a Landmark, just for attending LL Office Hours.
Zen Linden: Please, someone ask me when we're doing skies as tradable assets
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Zen Linden: to stay on a roll
Pastrami Linden: [13:21] Guy Ireland: can you reduce lag in SL?
Pastrami Linden: yes
Pastrami Linden: next question?
Jack666 Carter: LOL
Pastrami Linden: :)
Keisha Ninetails: Zen, IM that to Pastrami
Pastrami Linden: Guy, lag is an issue related to many factors-
Pastrami Linden: and we're working on the graphics end of it
Pastrami Linden: with faster flexis and Avatar impostors, we're much better now
Pastrami Linden: [13:21] norritt Xi: Is there a scheduled date when Windlight will be merged with the regular viewer?
Pastrami Linden: within the next few months
Jack666 Carter: Guy... buy your own sim and let nobody enter... at least this way you get no server-side lag.. ;) *grins*
Pastrami Linden: it's nearly out of First Look
Mastorian Kingsford: the new way they are advertuzung with spambots is crazy every 3 mins txt ads
Mastorian Kingsford: lol typo
Zen Linden: hmmm... german advertuzung
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Jack666 Carter: oh... send it to me... send it to me....
Zen Linden: not as good as german engunuurang
Jack666 Carter: LOL
Pastrami Linden: [13:25] Keisha Ninetails: when will skies be available as tradable assets, and will that include water presets as well or is it only for skies?
Pastrami Linden: you serious?
Pastrami Linden: :)
Zen Linden: i hate you
Boroondas Gupte: engu-what?
Keisha Ninetails: lol
BigPapi Linden: Keisha: Not this second. :)
Saijanai Kuhn: Torley and I talked about how sim owners would want to have presets you'd get when you first entered a sim...
Pastrami Linden: [13:26] Jack666 Carter: I had a problem with too small notecard-windows today... can anyone else confirm that ? or is that already solved ?
Zen Linden: Hey, i have a question for the general audience, anyone on an ATI card still getting triangle vomit?
Guy Ireland: some place I went to keep flashing too much lag
xGuy: algum lugar eu fui manter piscar demasiada retardação
Saijanai Kuhn: I sometimes see a white on black scene. Does that count?
Saijanai Kuhn: or maybe its white on white
Boroondas Gupte: not me, therefore SL no longer officially supports my card (ATi mobile radion 7600)
BigPapi Linden: me sees nausea and mild discomfort. Maybe a touch of heartburn. But that's it.
Boroondas Gupte: *radeon
Pastrami Linden: Jack666, I don't know about it
Zen Linden: Boroondas: ??? you don't see it and it also claims your card isn't supported?
PulseBurst Flow: I have a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro , did not see triangle vomit...
Jeremy Linden chuckles at the idea of vomiting as a result of radeon poisoning.
Saijanai Kuhn thinks the LIndens have odd senses of humor...
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Boroondas Gupte: yeah, I saw the triangles in earlier windlight versions but not in the current (SVN) one
Pastrami Linden: [13:29] norritt Xi: Is there any optimization for multi core CPU/multi GPU systems planned for the Windlight Viewer in order to increase performance?
Pastrami Linden: not in the near future
Zen Linden: yeah, the 7600 isn't supported
Jack666 Carter: it was a notecard I just got sent from another... the notecard was smalled down to a little square and only a few letters of the description part were visible... and some blue button (maybe the vertical text slider) nothing else ... couldn't even find the close-button
Zen Linden: that's an old card
Boroondas Gupte: oops 9700
Zen Linden: ah
Boroondas Gupte: not 6700
Zen Linden: yeah, are you on a gen 1 Dell XPS?
Boroondas Gupte: me?
Zen Linden: yeah
Boroondas Gupte: no, a IBM ThinkPad T42
Zen Linden: Once dell releases new drivers for that machine (their ati drivers were from 2005 and had all sorts of problems with our shaders), I'll allow shaders to run on a mobility 9700
Zen Linden: Dell said they would in the future
Zen Linden: and I'm meeting the dell guys next week
Zen Linden: right now we're not testing to see what drivers are running. I'm going to be thinking of ways to handle driver problems better in the future
Second Life: Your object 'Signboard' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Governor Linden from parcel 'Brampton Linden Stage' at Brampton 108.739, 151.599 due to parcel auto return.
Mastorian Kingsford: thats one way to make a driver work lol
Pastrami Linden: [13:32] Saijanai Kuhn: Does anyone else have a problem where avatar/prim textures all go white? The problem is far less comon, but sometimes still happens with this latest build
Jack666 Carter: only grey avatars for me sometimes, Sajanai
BigPapi Linden: Do they start out fine and then go white?
Saijanai Kuhn: Dual-G5 Mac OS X 5.2, 6800GT
BigPapi Linden: Or do they show up white and then fix themselves
Zen Linden: have you tried turning down your texture memory a touch and see what happens?
Saijanai Kuhn: yes, for a while anytime I walked in a certain direction in THornbridgetown, they would go white. Now, it only happens for a sec if I spin in a certain location
Zen Linden: under preferences->graphics->hardware options?
Saijanai Kuhn: I'm at 50% of max. 128MB instead of 256
Zen Linden: hmmm
Meltemi Case: ts this about
PulseBurst Flow: Saijanai, do you ever boot that dual G5 in Tiger and try Windlight?
Saijanai Kuhn: Zha has that huge IBM molecule there. Thousands of prims. Maybe thats got something to do with it
Aria Abattoir: $what is going on here
Saijanai Kuhn: yeah and I seem to recall that it was worse that way, but that was months ago
Saijanai Kuhn: several windlight releases ago
PulseBurst Flow: Oh..locks up computer on me..
PulseBurst Flow: now
Aria Abattoir: haha
Saijanai Kuhn: and its impossible for me to reinstall Tiger now, so the question is, well, moot
Pastrami Linden: guys we're gonna have to start booting you
PulseBurst Flow: thought maybe on an external.
Pastrami Linden: cut the racist music
Ferris Erato: us?
Pastrami Linden: thank you
Youaresoawesome Gigamon: tbh im not gonna argu
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
BigPapi Linden: Any more questions?
Pastrami Linden: im empty
Ferris Erato: is the copy bot back? some people reported seeing it
Saijanai Kuhn: If no-one else has heard of it, I'll go back to thornbridge town and wander randomly til Ihit the spot and make a screenshot
Keisha Ninetails: no you're not
Saijanai Kuhn: and submit ajira.
BigPapi Linden: Saijanai: that would be very helpful!
norritt Xi: Agreed I send another question too =)
Pastrami Linden: oh wai tthere was one more
Pastrami Linden: yes norritt I was talking about that one! indeed!
Pastrami Linden: [13:38] norritt Xi: With the previous Windlight version (1-19-0-79185) I had serious issues that caused the whole system to freeze so only cutting power helped. In that case it doesn't seem to be very useful to open a JIRA issue since its pretty hard to track the error if not impossible wihout crashing the computer multiple times a day. So is it still of any use for you if such an issue is reported even if there is no way given to reproduce the error?
Pastrami Linden: norritt is it still doing it?
BigPapi Linden: Yes, it's still very helpful if you report the issue with your specific system infromation.
BigPapi Linden: Also, submitting crash reports helps us tremendously as well.
norritt Xi: I have installed the new one today up to now it seems to do pretty fine. So my guess was it could have been related to the "avatar track crash" maybe
Pastrami Linden: well, unless it's not doing it anymore
Pastrami Linden: norritt if it does, file away
BigPapi Linden: If it still shows up submit a report on it.
Pastrami Linden: yep
Pastrami Linden: [13:41] Boroondas Gupte: In windlight I get more "couldn't create IM session" messages (or alike, don't remember the exact wording) than in the released viewer. is this a known issue?
norritt Xi: Okay I will do thank you =)
Pastrami Linden: Boroondas the best way to check against RC
Pastrami Linden: since we've adopted a lot of code from there
Pastrami Linden: all, in fact
Pastrami Linden: :)
Pastrami Linden: are you referring to RC here?
Boroondas Gupte: It's more often than in RC, too as far as I can tell
Pastrami Linden: huh
Pastrami Linden: then I would say file it
Boroondas Gupte: ok, will do
Pastrami Linden: thanks
Pastrami Linden: [13:44] Keisha Ninetails: is there a hidden debug setting somewhere that will make IM tabs for IM windows that don't have focus flash like they used to?
Pastrami Linden: sorry Jeisha, missed this
Pastrami Linden: Keisha
Pastrami Linden: I don't believe so
Pastrami Linden: Jeremy?
WidgetHUD v1.1: Pastrami Linden has pinged you.
Jeremy Linden: processing...
Keisha Ninetails: please please don't say we're stuck without the flash
Jeremy Linden: They flash on the current client, it's just a little more subtle.
Pastrami Linden: Keisha I know it's somethign contentious from RC-
Pastrami Linden: I'd have to check with them and see what the plan is
Jeremy Linden: And by current, I mean WindLight.
Jeremy Linden: It's sort of a white glow flash.
Keisha Ninetails: doesn't seem to flash at all unless I'm looking right at it when it flashes and if I'm doing that I'm running into things
Pastrami Linden: I agree-
Pastrami Linden: it's very subtle
Pastrami Linden: if there at all
Jeremy Linden: As for a debug setting, I don't know of anything at the moment, but I'll look into it.
Pastrami Linden: I'll have to look into it, as I'm interested as well
Pastrami Linden: queue empty....
Pastrami Linden: [13:47] PulseBurst Flow: Do you take Windlight User Interface questions at these Office Hours?
Pastrami Linden: but of couurrrrse
PulseBurst Flow: thanks...
PulseBurst Flow: I'll come up with some. ;-D
Pastrami Linden: Part of the WUI X Team Skunk Works Black Ops Initiative
Saijanai Kuhn: I've heard one of your design parameters is to tidy up normal SL grpahics as you go...
Pastrami Linden: or WUIXTSWBOI for short
PulseBurst Flow: LOL
Jeremy Linden: And I thought KBAotW was long.
Pastrami Linden: what do you mean by normal SL graphics, pre tell?
Saijanai Kuhn: the prim-drawing, etc...?
Saijanai Kuhn: pre-windlight settings, whatever
Pastrami Linden: oh, yes
Pastrami Linden: well everything gets hit round-robin like
Pastrami Linden: :)
Pastrami Linden: so there are optimizations in flexis in this latest release, I believe
Pastrami Linden: let me double check release notes
Zen Linden: if we see a dirty room, we try to clean up. Though we need to tear down a few walls and foundations in the future
Saijanai Kuhn: Justwondering as there's this call on the winki to open upsource code having to do with prim-drawing and I was wondering if your work would change that
Pastrami Linden: yep, it is this release
Boroondas Gupte: brb
Saijanai Kuhn: KK, cause I was trying to start some documentation work on the llvolume code and getting cross=eyed
Saijanai Kuhn does protocol documentation for the AWG
Pastrami Linden: [13:50] norritt Xi: Speaking of debugging I got something that might be not only related to WL but the viewers in general. If a script error occurs there is only given information about how the object is named the script error occurred inside but not which script exactly. That makes tracking script errors quite hard when working with objects that contain multiple scripts. Is there a way to implement that into the debugging dialog?
Pastrami Linden: anybody know the answer?
Zen Linden: Saijanai: awesome! I've been thinking of doing more documenting as I go as well. Yeah, parts of the codebase can make your eyes bleed
Saijanai Kuhn: so I was just checking to see if that was futile as well as exceedingly headache-making, BEFORE I started putting stuff on the wiki
Saijanai Kuhn: The libsl people are trying to reverse engineer theprim-drawing code, which is apparently beyond headache-making
Saijanai Kuhn: which is why they want to look at theprim drawing stuff under a non-GPL license
Zen Linden: Was thinking of tackling on the wiki some descriptions of our rendering pipeline. I can just bug runitai when i get stuck, which helps
Time Minder: You have been online for 1 hours.
Pastrami Linden: I'm going to try to answer a few more before we break
Saijanai Kuhn: John Hurliman and friends would love you I think
Pastrami Linden: anyone know answer to norritt?
Saijanai Kuhn: (I'm still stuck trying to document group IM)
Jeremy Linden: I agree the that debug messages are a pain, but I don't know anything about our codebase to implement a change.
Zen Linden REALLY would love to get portions broken up, stuck in unit tests, decoupled... blah blah blah
Pastrami Linden: norritt it's a scripting thing so you may not have as much luck here
Keisha Ninetails: feature request, bet it would get a few votes as it is quite a pain
norritt Xi: Anny suggestions where I can go with this issue?
=++=GanSTa UZI v1.0=++ whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
=++=GanSTa UZI v1.0=++ whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
Jack666 Carter: M
BigPapi Linden: Spitwad: Kill your music.
Spitwad Marksman: OK
Keisha Ninetails: jira.secondlife.com
Keisha Ninetails: make a feature request