Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-05-22

[2014/05/22 15:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hey guys
[2014/05/22 15:02] Rex Cronon: hi mestro
[2014/05/22 15:02] Rex Cronon: maestro*
[2014/05/22 15:02] Inara Breen: Hi, Maestro
[2014/05/22 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so this will have to be a rush meeting for Caleb and myself, since we have to head out at 3:30
[2014/05/22 15:04] Rex Cronon: u guys doing another main grid update?
[2014/05/22 15:04] Nal (nalates.urriah): Party?
[2014/05/22 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): No, and yes :)
[2014/05/22 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/05/22 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): first.. the updates..
[2014/05/22 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): this Tuesday was rather exciting, though not because of sim updates
[2014/05/22 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the main channel got the maintenance fix that was on Magnum previously
[2014/05/22 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that went.. awkwardly
[2014/05/22 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): as some of you found out, logins broke on Tuesday
[2014/05/22 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there was a good several hours of downtime
[2014/05/22 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): however the problem was not related to the server roll
[2014/05/22 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though it happened to coincide
[2014/05/22 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the roll was stopped prematurely due to this issue
[2014/05/22 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Simon figured out what the problem was, so we were all pretty grateful to him
[2014/05/22 15:08] Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay Simon
[2014/05/22 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway... it was a pretty exciting time
[2014/05/22 15:09] Nal (nalates.urriah): ...and the problem was... ?
[2014/05/22 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the login server ran out of electrons or something :)
[2014/05/22 15:09] Rex Cronon: no kidding.lol
[2014/05/22 15:10] Jonathan Yap: I could get logged in, but not connect to a region
[2014/05/22 15:10] Notme Burner: yay
[2014/05/22 15:10] Notme Burner: hi
[2014/05/22 15:10] Nal (nalates.urriah): Simon saw them on the floor... that's how he figured it out....
[2014/05/22 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, it wasn't giving the viewer the right token for that
[2014/05/22 15:10] Rex Cronon: hi
[2014/05/22 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): lol
[2014/05/22 15:10] Simon Linden: yes Jonathan - that was how it broke down. You got past login but you didn't get to the region
[2014/05/22 15:11] Simon Linden: The conversation between the login server, your viewer and the region didn't work any more
[2014/05/22 15:11] Rex Cronon: lost is transit?
[2014/05/22 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): basically
[2014/05/22 15:11] Jonathan Yap: and radegast was saying something like "Returned U32 was too large or too small"
[2014/05/22 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me nods
[2014/05/22 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, that particular problem shouldn't happen again
[2014/05/22 15:12] Rex Cronon: i am glad u guys figured out how return all the electrons that the servers lost;)
[2014/05/22 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but after logins were restored, there was a period where the inventory servers got pretty 'heated up', probably from people logging in after hours of downtime
[2014/05/22 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so inventory was bad for an hour or two
[2014/05/22 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, at that point we scheduled the rest of the main channel roll for wednesday morning, and the RC rolls for htis morning
[2014/05/22 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there was originally some planned maintenance for this morning, which would have also taken the grid offline
[2014/05/22 15:14] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): however, that was postponed (the new time is TBD) due to Tuesday's excitement
[2014/05/22 15:14] Theresa Tennyson: Can you tell us what the maintenance is?
[2014/05/22 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, I think so. It's on the database hardware
[2014/05/22 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): For agni
[2014/05/22 15:17] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): sims should have slightly faster access after the maintenance, though I wouldn't promise anything major
[2014/05/22 15:18] Jenna Felton: when will that happen?
[2014/05/22 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm not sure yet, but that definitely will be on the grid status reports page
[2014/05/22 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): since it will involve logins being disabled
[2014/05/22 15:20] Jenna Felton: ok, thank you :)
[2014/05/22 15:20] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It would probably be on a Monday-Thursday morning
[2014/05/22 15:20] Jenna Felton: i dont notice something like that yet there, http://status.secondlifegrid.net/
[2014/05/22 15:20] Rex Cronon: if login r going to be disabled it might be a good a idea to post a notice like this "go check beta grid during downtime"
[2014/05/22 15:20] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2014/05/21/post2273/
[2014/05/22 15:20] Simon Linden: The time hasn't been chosen yet, Jenna
[2014/05/22 15:20] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ^ so that was from the original plan, which was to have that happen today
[2014/05/22 15:21] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we actualy got a fair number of visitors on tuesday morning
[2014/05/22 15:22] Jenna Felton: thank you Maestro :)
[2014/05/22 15:24] Jenna Felton: and also thank you for commenting on that big-be-feature jira post of mine :)
[2014/05/22 15:24] Jenna Felton: bug-be
[2014/05/22 15:24] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): sure thing
[2014/05/22 15:24] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oh, other updates.. we got one of the required central updates for group ban out to agni yesterday
[2014/05/22 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though there's a 2nd one still needed before the server RC goes out
[2014/05/22 15:25] Nal (nalates.urriah): To RC with another to come to RC?
[2014/05/22 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Tuesday's antics and the subsequent roll delays unfortunately ruined the original schedule
[2014/05/22 15:26] Jenna Felton: many group managers come closer to happiness :)
[2014/05/22 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): wel the first update is just for a central service to manage group bans, Nal
[2014/05/22 15:26] Nal (nalates.urriah): Aah. Thx
[2014/05/22 15:27] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there will only be 1 update for sim support, unless we find bugs or have some sort of version 2 in the distant future
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): AnnMarie Otoole couldn't make it to this meeting but IMed me to ask about updates for these 2 jiras:
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): BUG-5530: "Objects become infected if saved after sim crossing, and can no longer cross sim line." https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5530
 BUG-5120: "Object crossing region boundary with llSetPos() is subjected to accelerated object return." https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5120
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (which are both basically variants of the same problem)
[2014/05/22 15:28] Lucia Nightfire: shes here, heh
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): :P
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 'I'll have my AFK avi there to record the meeting.'
[2014/05/22 15:28] Lucia Nightfire: ah
[2014/05/22 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think it's okay to talk about her in the third person if she's AFK
[2014/05/22 15:29] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, to answer that question, I don't have any udpates for that
[2014/05/22 15:30] Lucia Nightfire: I guess the pilotless vehicle applciatiosn are the edge case there, huh
[2014/05/22 15:30] Lucia Nightfire: as I can't think of any other common app that has obejcts moving in and out of regions
[2014/05/22 15:30] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, she hits it very frequently but not many other people
[2014/05/22 15:30] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay.. as promised, I have to get going
[2014/05/22 15:31] Theresa Tennyson: See you later!
[2014/05/22 15:31] Lucia Nightfire: is Simon continueing the meeting?
[2014/05/22 15:31] Caleb Linden: cciao
[2014/05/22 15:31] Simon Linden: I can stay for the hour
[2014/05/22 15:31] Lucia Nightfire: -e
[2014/05/22 15:31] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if he wants to :)
[2014/05/22 15:31] Jenna Felton: thank you and have a great week and weekend too
[2014/05/22 15:31] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): thanks! you too!
[15:31] Lucia Nightfire: I was gonna ask about those materials, heh
[15:31] Rex Cronon: tc maestro
[15:31] Zenith Subchair final p whispers: Hi Yuzuru Jewell! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[15:31] Lucia Nightfire: and if tehres a sim we can test them on
[15:31] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx Lindens
[15:32] Rex Cronon: u save the day simon:)
[15:32] Simon Linden: I don't have much to add ... the LSL materials functions are coming along but aren't quite ready to try out
[15:32] Lucia Nightfire: is that sim sized lagger in GC Test 3 part of the testing?
[15:32] Simon Linden: Maestro has been doing some testing, found a few minor issues and then fixed them
[15:32] Simon Linden: I don't think so ... I'm not sure what's there
[15:32] Jonathan Yap: Who is the Linden(?) in the Occulus Rift video linked to from here? http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Using-the-Oculus-Rift-with-Second-Life/ba-p/2728824
[15:34] Jenna Felton: someone is asking me to script a control for projectors, so i'd like to have such a control :) probably after materials
[15:34] Simon Linden: ah yes, I think there were some feature requests for LSL projector functions, right?
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: can't find it, but I'm sure someone has asked for it before
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: actually I think its been brought up in the OH's before
[15:37] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-163
[15:37] Jenna Felton: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-163
[15:37] Lucia Nightfire: there she is
[15:37] Jenna Felton: hehe Whirly
[15:37] Whirly Fizzle: :P
[15:38] Rex Cronon: whirly. u r better than jira search:)
[15:38] Jenna Felton: yes
[15:40] Simon Linden: Does anyone have ideas how people might cause trouble with the projector LSL functions?
[15:40] Lucia Nightfire: lasers in pilots eyes as they land?
[15:40] Lucia Nightfire: off the top of my head, heh
[15:41] Lucia Nightfire: I have yet to see any abuse/grief vectors using projected light
[15:41] Lucia Nightfire: or rather effective ones
[15:41] Simon Linden: I wondering how it might cause problems, other than lots of updates ... and if it would be any different than rezzing stuff
[15:41] Rex Cronon: u can use a follower with a projector to put p0rn images on avatars and or objects?
[15:41] Simon Linden: I don't know of any others eitehr
[15:41] Nal (nalates.urriah): We need a domesticated hacker to answer that question...
[15:42] Simon Linden: lol I assumed there were a few here :)
[15:42] Nal (nalates.urriah): :/
[15:42] Lucia Nightfire: I've seen laggers use every possible combination or prim param use and upadting, but it doesn't take many prims to achieve the same bandwidth
[15:43] Simon Linden: right, it's pretty easy to clog the network pipe with updates
[15:44] Rex Cronon: u know how people like to draw all kinds of "intersting" things on their sleeping drunk friends? imagine putting images on somebody that delivers a speach at sl convention...
[15:45] Lucia Nightfire: you'd have to have prims to do that afaik
[15:45] kyleetehkitty: Couldn't you do that already if the area was build enabled?
[15:46] Lucia Nightfire: plus no different that someone wearing a billion lumen face light
[15:46] Theresa Tennyson: Can you project a light from outside a parcel into it?
[15:46] Notme Burner: hellllloooo
[15:46] Simon Linden: Yes Theresa, I'm pretty sure there are no parcel checks for that
[15:47] Lucia Nightfire: just like there are none for bouncing particles across parcels or regions, heh
[15:47] Jonathan Yap: What if you are in a parcel with privacy turned on?
[15:47] Simon Linden: right ... That's just for AVs, Jonathan
[15:47] Jonathan Yap: ah, yes
[15:47] Simon Linden: I looked into doing more ... limiting object views, and even played with a prototype
[15:48] Simon Linden: it's pretty ugly because you end up with nothing there ... at least in my simple code
[15:48] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5671 <<-I'd liek to see this though
[15:49] Simon Linden: then you walk onto the parcel and all the trees and house and stuff pops up ... it was odd
[15:50] Simon Linden: I guess there's some interest and that BUG / feature request has been imported, Lucia, so it might happen
[15:50] Lucia Nightfire: ya, plenty of interest cleaning up eyesores around your land
[15:51] Lucia Nightfire: would be a good incentive feature for peopel to buy land anywhere
[15:51] Lucia Nightfire: w/o fear of the crap teh neighbors have scatter about
[15:51] Lucia Nightfire: bah tpying
[15:52] Simon Linden: I always thought it would be nice to have some sort of visibility layout ... so if you were inside a room, for example, you can't cam over and see what's in the next one. But it quickly gets complicated on how that would be represented
[15:52] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, sounds more game oriented options
[15:52] Lucia Nightfire: aside from privacy or realism
[15:53] Simon Linden: I wonder if that (parcel based visibility) could be done viewer-side ... just skip drawing stuff on other parcels
[15:53] Lucia Nightfire: bingo
[15:53] Whirly Fizzle: If it stopped me shopping by camming the reigon Id cry :D
[15:53] Rex Cronon: how about u see pixelated versions of the next room?
[15:53] Lucia Nightfire: that feature is mroe oriented to home owner's not shop owners
[15:54] Lucia Nightfire: or mall owner's or places of commerce
[15:54] Whirly Fizzle: Viewerside, then we can disable it ;)
[15:54] Simon Linden: server-side would be better so you wouldn't get updates for things you can't see, but a cosmetic viewer-side option might be possible
[15:55] kyleetehkitty: Land option?
[15:55] Inara Breen: Viewer-side offers greater freedom of choice for the user.
[15:56] Jenna Felton: i would really support this. Instead to ban a resident from a sim, you put it to a "blind List" and when that griefer comes back to the sim, they sees nothing on sim at all, and nothing works, no rezz and no scripts. this makes boring to death and they leave and come no more
[15:56] Lucia Nightfire: aside from the ddossers
[15:56] Rex Cronon: they use alts...
[15:56] Lucia Nightfire: ^
[15:57] Jonathan Yap: But they would still cause grief if people saw them--with nefarious attached objects
[15:57] Lucia Nightfire: remin sme
[15:57] Lucia Nightfire: would https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2467 be more attractive if it wouldn't return HUD keys?
[15:57] Lucia Nightfire: only visual attachments
[15:57] Jenna Felton: yes other people must be not able to see the blind listed people- that would be not fair otherwise
[15:57] Simon Linden: yeah, I don't think it's much of an anti-griefing thing as "my neighbor's house is ugly and I don't want to see it"
[15:58] Lucia Nightfire: I still have yet to get a return of 500k for anyone wearing a lagger.
[15:59] Lucia Nightfire: with render weight reading by script, lol
[15:59] Jenna Felton: no such object Lucia, sorry
[15:59] Lucia Nightfire: had someone two days ago with a ARW of 2 million nd 12 people around them and the ARW by script would never get to 500k, lol
[15:59] Simon Linden: I don't remember the discussion on that one, Lucia, but accessing HUD info is definitely not good
[15:59] Theresa Tennyson: I know where to get a hairstyle with over a 400,000 rendering cost...
[16:00] Simon Linden: did it get close to 500k?
[16:00] Lucia Nightfire: I saw someone wear a few laggers that had a total over over 1 billion for ARW and it wouldn't get to 500k fast eitehr
[16:00] Theresa Tennyson: A dressed avatar was at about 480,000 and that wasn't really trying.
[16:00] Lucia Nightfire: theres just no effective way atm to read soemone wearing a lagger
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: which is why I bring up attachment keys
[16:01] Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: its the only way I know
[16:01] Simon Linden: 480k is a pretty heavily dressed AV
[16:01] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[16:01] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Simon
[16:01] Simon Linden: I need to go as well ... thanks everyone for coming today