Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.11.06

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.11.02	Next 2012.11.09
== List of Speakers ==
Baker Linden 	Chieron Tenk 	Da5id Kronfeld
Duckie Dickins 	Jonathan Yap 	Kallista Destiny
Kelly Linden 	Lexbot Sinister 	Martinrj Fayray
Nalates Urriah 	Prokofy Neva 	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi	Scorch Braveheart
Simon Linden 	Tankmaster Finesmith	Theresa Tennyson
Tillie Ariantho	Whirly Fizzle 	
== Transcript ==
[12:02] Lexbot Sinister: now... why don't m,y mesh shoes rez to me unless i edit them >.<
[12:02] Rex Cronon: i forgot i had a forecefield on. sorry if anybody got attacked by it:(
[12:02] Theresa Tennyson: We should call him Simu today.
[12:02] Simon Linden: haha, that works
[12:02] Scorch Braveheart: Hello there folks.
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hi
[12:02] Baker Linden: I've learned that my group changes have been pulled into the viewer-beta repo, so once 3.4.2 gets promoted, the beta viewer should be able to load large groups
[12:02] Simon Linden: ok, I can get things moving ... on server release news, we rolled the main server channel this morning with a new version
[12:02] Baker Linden: has anyone had any problems with loading groups during out initial rounds of testing?
[12:03] Tankmaster Finesmith: we havent on FS
[12:03] Nalates Urriah: I don't have any large groups, but congrats Baker.
[12:04] Simon Linden: This is the one with the updated Havok library, so after the RC channels are updated tomorrow, there shouldn't be that problem with meshes going between them
[12:04] Lexbot Sinister: well... just tested.. " Unable to start session with Animania, session timed out"
[12:04] Tankmaster Finesmith: @ baker, yes, its the last thing that got merged into v-beta
[12:05] Jonathan Yap: Do all regions support that large group change yet?
[12:05] Simon Linden: No, Jonathan
[12:05] Baker Linden: only Magnum regions
[12:05] Simon Linden: As of tomorrow all RC channels will
[12:05] Baker Linden: and then what Simon says
[12:05] Scorch Braveheart: This should be interesting.
[12:06] Kallista Destiny: Is thre an official viewer that supports it?
[12:06] Simon Linden: The RC channels tomorrow will get two different maintenance releases ... the one already on Magnum is getting a few fixes. BlueSteel and LeTigre get a version a little further along - so it's Magnum plus a few more bug fixes
[12:06] Rex Cronon: i hope that this whole work on group will lead to better group chat:)
[12:06] Baker Linden: Group chat should remain unaffected, for better or worse. :P
[12:07] Scorch Braveheart: Oh hm.
[12:07] Rex Cronon: i said "lead to":)
[12:07] Lexbot Sinister: oh.
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: bravehart - the official beta now has it
[12:07] Duckie Dickins: Large group is for listing the roster of members and such then?
[12:07] Scorch Braveheart: I... what?
[12:07] Simon Linden: The changes here are about loading groups into your viewer, not sending the messages around to everyone
[12:07] Scorch Braveheart: I didn't ask anything :S
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: er kallista (got my lines messed up :P)
[12:09] Kallista Destiny: Ah?
[12:09] Simon Linden: I think that's it for news, so the virtual table is open for topics or questions
[12:09] Tankmaster Finesmith: ie, when you open up the group profile, that list of users in th group would fail to load if there was more than around 15,000 members
[12:09] Tankmaster Finesmith: baker has a fix for this now, but it requiered server side changes as well
[12:09] Tillie Ariantho: I think Phil promised a fix for group chat till end of year. That was last year or even before that. :P
[12:09] Scorch Braveheart: Hm, I was hoping Kelly would show up.
[12:10] Duckie Dickins: Will the large group fix be a step in the right direction to getting group chat to work more reliably? It's been a big issue for years now.
[12:10] Tankmaster Finesmith: I don't see group chat getting fixed any time soon, especially now that oskar is gone
[12:11] Tankmaster Finesmith: no, duckie, it won't have any impact on chat, separate systems
[12:11] Kallista Destiny: In regards to chat lag fixes, Thou shalt not get thy hopes up, Neither shall thee hold your breath.
[12:11] Kallista Destiny: your=thy
[12:12] Rex Cronon: hope springs eternal:)
[12:12] Tillie Ariantho: Prims jumping to <0,0,0> when trying to edit them, is that a server or a client bug? ;)
[12:12] Simon Linden: I don't know, Tillie - it could be either. If you can reproduce it, changing viewer versions might tell us that
[12:13] Tillie Ariantho: Ok...
[12:14] Tankmaster Finesmith: if it does it on different versions of the viewer, or even different viewers, its likely server side, if it only happens on the one version of the viewer, then thats the culprit
[12:14] Scorch Braveheart: Which viewer would this be?
[12:14] Scorch Braveheart is merely curious.
[12:15] Tillie Ariantho: It was only for some days, around the weekend, and it was Cool VL Viewer. And I didnt have that for a long time, and not for the last 2 days either.
[12:15] Scorch Braveheart: Hm.
[12:16] Theresa Tennyson: Were you using the main CoolVL verson or Henri Beauchamp's Private Reserve (the test one)?
[12:16] Tillie Ariantho: Had something else on editing: click prim to rotate it and it became invisible. Leave Edit and it was back...
[12:16] Simon Linden: It would also be possible to tell if it's viewer or simulator by examining the messages around the time it happens, and seeing if there's one coming from the simulator with a position of 0,0,0. That requires some viewer debugging or extra log messages, so would take a full deveopment setup
[12:16] Tillie Ariantho: Theresa: I am on the new renderer version.
[12:17] Simon Linden: There were a bunch of rotation and visibility problems with the beta viewers recently - that sounds like one of those
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: If an object disappears when editing, check "Hide selected" isn't enabled in viewer prefs ;)
[12:17] Theresa Tennyson: The development viewers have editing weirdness with rendering - Henri may be doing something with that.
[12:18] Tillie Ariantho: aha. will crosscheck if I can reproduce in any LL DEV, COOL VL or Firefox. :)
[12:18] Simon Linden: If you do see things like that with a Linden viewer, please file a BUG on it with steps detailed enough to reproduce it. Someone will follow up on it
[12:18] Tillie Ariantho: Sure will do. :)
[12:18] Tankmaster Finesmith: likely whirly :P
[12:19] Simon Linden: Whirly does help out a lot with sorting bug reports, yes
[12:19] Tillie Ariantho: Whirly: No, that one I know, last one this tricked on me was like 2009 or something. :P
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: hehe
[12:20] Tillie Ariantho: last time I meant.
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: You wernt trying to use restore to last position in a TPV? That will attempt to rez at 0,0,0 and fail if you don't have rez rights there
[12:21] Tillie Ariantho: Thats my own sim, I have all rights I can get. :P
[12:21] Tillie Ariantho: And I never used restore to last position...
[12:23] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh, speaking of that, we now have a workaround for restore to last position that will work even if you don't have rezz rights at 0,0,0
[12:23] Theresa Tennyson: Where are things at with threaded region crossings?
[12:24] Scorch Braveheart: Hi there Kelly.
[12:24] Scorch Braveheart: Nice to see ya.
[12:24] Simon Linden: The region crossing work is in QA now, I think. It may be up on some Aditi test regions
[12:25] Simon Linden: Tank, I don't think there's a work-around for that. We took restore-to-last position out of the Linden viewers because there were some pretty ugly ways to get into trouble ... at least that's my understanding of it
[12:26] Jonathan Yap: I have a quick question when there is a break in the discussion
[12:26] Prokofy Neva: Oh, this is the Firestorm users meeting I see.
[12:26] Simon Linden: It's the server user group meeting
[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: I thought it broke if you didn't have rez rights at 0,0,0 because of the fix for that...ya know....always being able to rez at 0,0,0 when you shouldn't be able to nastyness
[12:26] Martinrj Fayray: Hello Prokofy, nice to meet you :)
[12:27] Prokofy Neva: Then I came to the right place! I use servers! when they don't use me : )
[12:27] Prokofy Neva: Hi Martin
[12:27] Tankmaster Finesmith: im not entirely sure how the workaround works, but I noted the group tag briefly changes to the land group, then back to what it was
[12:27] Lexbot Sinister: It's a bit of a pain to segregate the functions for landowners of 0,0,0 and those that don't own that corner of the sim.
[12:28] Tillie Ariantho: I've just seen this large indent in the graph on that wall when someone entered the parcel. Do scripts still have a lot of impact on entering/leaving a sim? >.<
[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: That feature isn't LL supported though, so....
[12:28] Scorch Braveheart: It'd probably be useful to see how many scripts the person entering has on.
[12:29] Rex Cronon: u can. u just need the right script:)
[12:29] Tillie Ariantho: it was Chieron. :P
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: Obviously if a person with 200 comes in you're going to see a dip.
[12:29] Tillie Ariantho: We can have a look! :D
[12:29] Tankmaster Finesmith: I think it was removed because residents were clicking on it not know what it really did, then wondering where their no copy item want
[12:29] Qie Niangao: (but the sim takes a hit when an agent enters, with or without scripts, too.)
[12:29] Tankmaster Finesmith: went*
[12:29] Martinrj Fayray: I'm curious about Jonathan's question?
[12:29] Simon Linden: I've always been curious about a viewer-side feature that would record in-world object positions, put stuff back into inventory, and be able to do the reverse. I think all the data is around to make that work, and wouldn't need any server-side code
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: Sure, the agent has to load the sim.
[12:29] Tillie Ariantho: Chieron, drop your pants so we can count how many scripts you are wearing. :D
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: >.>;
[12:29] Chieron Tenk: lol
[12:29] Jonathan Yap: Baker, you are the ace of quick fixes, would you add svc-7996 to your to-do list as a nice feature, storm-68, depends on it
[12:29] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-68
[#STORM-68] As a Builder, I want that ability to set default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc. - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:30] Simon Linden: uh, please use IMs as needed ;)
[12:30] Jonathan Yap: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7996
[12:30] Tankmaster Finesmith: the last position is stored in the server, and LL's viewer has the code to use it, just no UI element
[12:30] Scorch Braveheart: Eheh.
[12:30] Chieron Tenk: I think it's like 57, nothing extraordinary (and and i'm not able to remove most of them)
[12:31] Tillie Ariantho: Aha. Made like a 25% indent in this graph over there.
[12:31] Chieron Tenk: there are 29 people here now, most agents would make a noticeable indent by now
[12:32] Jonathan Yap pokes Baker--did you see my question? :)
[12:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Whirly has 448 scripts. >.>
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: EEEEEK
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle hides
[12:32] Tankmaster Finesmith: griffer!
[12:32] Scorch Braveheart: What.
[12:32] Scorch Braveheart: Just... why.
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: Oh God...Its the bracelet
[12:32] Scorch Braveheart: You make me sad.
[12:32] Scorch Braveheart: D:
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: I made myself sad!
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle dies of shame
[12:33] Simon Linden: That's a good suggestion, Jonathan - Maestro and I looked into it.
[12:33] Martinrj Fayray: Omg whirly!
[12:33] Jonathan Yap: Thanks Simon -- was there any progress made or is that change still on the "one of these days" list?
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: Shhh.shhhh....Im fixing lol
[12:33] Lexbot Sinister: it doesn't really help a region to count someones scripts once they are already there.
[12:33] Baker Linden: I saw it Jonathan! :)
[12:33] Lexbot Sinister: Script-sized banline would be.. good.
[12:34] Scorch Braveheart: Ergh, yeah and drive off all the innocent people who don't mean to practically crash the sim with like 1000
[12:34] Chieron Tenk: who did just leave ?
[12:34] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: My radar shows scripts/memory usage/script time per person.
[12:34] Simon Linden: It's still on that list, but re-reading it I don't see why it would take very long. It probably got buried in there
[12:34] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: No one, Whirly dropped by about 200 scripts.
[12:34] Chieron Tenk: heh
[12:34] Scorch Braveheart: The creators who put so many in are the issue.
[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Yes, that is what I suspected...and I was away for a while, so could not check on it
[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: Took my bracelet off...damn....
[12:34] Chieron Tenk: i see 28 people now, tho
[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: Thats bad :(
[12:35] Tillie Ariantho: That's the old-style jewelry, a script for resizing and another for retexturing in every single prim...
[12:35] Scorch Braveheart: Ergh.
[12:36] Prokofy Neva: In old style shoes too
[12:36] Jonathan Yap: It would make me very happy to see some action on svc-7996, as that related storm issue is all set to go, pending the server change
[12:36] Chieron Tenk: oh yes.. with 255 prims each
[12:36] Tillie Ariantho: That was before the llBLABLALinkedSOMEMORE() commands. ;)
[12:36] Jonathan Yap: Thanks for looking into this again Simon & Baker
[12:36] Kelly Linden: Tillie: llSLPPF()
[12:37] Tillie Ariantho: yah ;D
[12:37] Simon Linden: Do any of the other viewers have a simple meter, maybe a thermometer or something, that gives you some idea of your own AV's weigth?
[12:37] Chieron Tenk: if that abbreviation only worked...
[12:37] Scorch Braveheart: Hm?
[12:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Weight?
[12:37] Whirly Fizzle: Render cost?
[12:37] Rex Cronon: what u mean by weight?
[12:37] Martinrj Fayray: Kelly could you help us sorting out STORM-1913, I've been looking into the problem, but I blame the font that the viewer uses
[12:37] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1913
[#STORM-1913] Script Editor: Incorrect cursor position - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:38] Jonathan Yap: I would think all the viewers would show the rendering cost
[12:38] Simon Linden: script usage, render cost -- something simple
[12:38] Kallista Destiny: Weight is not meingful.
[12:38] Jonathan Yap: Simon, rendering cost is in some sub-menu
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: Script useage, Firestorm we can check using the bridge
[12:38] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: You can get avatar memory usage per attachment and total in about land > script info > my avatar.
[12:38] Scorch Braveheart: Sounds worthwhile.
[12:38] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That's in the stock viewer.
[12:38] Simon Linden: My point -most advanced users learn how to find their script usage, or can rez an object and see land impact, etc
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: [12:37] #Firestorm LSL Bridge v2.3: 'Whirly Fizzle' [21/21] running scripts. 768Kb consumed for 0.042917ms of cpu time.
[12:38] Simon Linden: The typical person does not
[12:38] Scorch Braveheart: I think Simon means something simple.
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: See, Im healthy now :)
[12:38] Tankmaster Finesmith: we have the opton of rt clicking an avatar and getting the script count on them
[12:38] Rex Cronon: for script usage we have scripts that do that. r u guys planning on new lsl functions that allow to get other type of ave info?
[12:39] Rex Cronon: like render cost
[12:39] Tillie Ariantho: I know that https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1913. I have/had a similar jira. It was about UI scale.
[12:39] JIRA-helper: [#STORM-1913] Script Editor: Incorrect cursor position - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Scripts can't really get render cost.
[12:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Because ... that's rendering.
[12:39] Lexbot Sinister: All the simple ways of showing render weight and script usage have turned grossly misleading, with people being banned from sims left and right all for the wrong reasons.
[12:39] Scorch Braveheart: Oho!
[12:39] Simon Linden: I'm not planning anything, Rex -- I'm asking if any other viewers have a simple way to tell you your AV is a lag monster
[12:39] Tankmaster Finesmith: 'Simon Linden' [12/12] running scripts. 768Kb consumed for 0.019403ms of cpu time.
[12:39] Scorch Braveheart: Script time is the best indicator, really.
[12:39] Scorch Braveheart: But people don't seem to know how to use it properly.
[12:39] Rex Cronon: scripts could intereact with server/viewer and get that info
[12:39] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Simon - stock viewer is pretty useless at showing that.
[12:39] Tillie Ariantho: If you dont use the 1.0 scale, the offset from one letter to the next is apparently rounded down, so the longer you type, the less far the cursor will advance.
[12:40] Tillie Ariantho: Like if you type 20 characters, the curser is like 2 pixel off to the left.
[12:40] Simon Linden: There are a few factors, script time, render cost, etc. ... and it's a long discussion as to how each is important for different things
[12:40] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Rex - render cost in the viewer is already badly inaccurate.
[12:40] Tillie Ariantho: If you type 40 characters, the cursor is already 4 pixel off, compared to where it should be.
[12:40] Jonathan Yap: Tillie, what happens if you adjust the scale value in the opposite direction--does the cursor start to run ahead?
[12:40] Theresa Tennyson sits on her AO hoping nobody will see how huge its script load is.
[12:40] Tillie Ariantho: If I set the scale to 1.0 for the UI, all is wekk.
[12:40] Tillie Ariantho: well
[12:40] Tillie Ariantho: But I use a 2560x1450 screen, so UI scale 1.0 is WAY too small.
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: That was embarrasing. 1 brcaelet and a set of prim nails - 400 odds scripts lol
[12:41] Tillie Ariantho: So I usually use 1.4.
[12:41] Tankmaster Finesmith: small screen
[12:41] Martinrj Fayray: Kelly did you see my question?
[12:41] Tillie Ariantho: But better would be 1.5, as there seems to be less rounding offset.
[12:41] Tillie Ariantho: I made Henry to add 1.5 as max for the UI scale. ;D
[12:41] Tillie Ariantho: In his client.
[12:41] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: There was a recent addition that allows you to see how much graphics memory an avatar uses.
[12:42] Lexbot Sinister: I think script usage would go down if the consumer could make an informed choice already at purchase on the marketplace. exactly like with prims. How much of a lag monster will this new bracelet be? Etc
[12:42] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It's 'attachment bytes' under render metadata.
[12:42] Tillie Ariantho: That 1.5 is working way better than the original 1.4 maximum value.
[12:42] Jonathan Yap: Tillie, did you write storm-1894?
[12:42] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1894
[#STORM-1894] UIScaleFactor: raise limit from 1.4 to at least 1.5 - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:42] Tillie Ariantho: Yup, thats mine. :)
[12:42] Tillie Ariantho: One of my many. :P
[12:42] Qie Niangao: I think the script editor cursor is pretty wacked at any scale... but this doesn't seem server related (?)
[12:42] Jonathan Yap: Did that change do through yet or is it stuck in QA ?
[12:43] Jonathan Yap: *go through
[12:43] Martinrj Fayray: It's kelly related
[12:43] Qie Niangao: oh
[12:43] Tillie Ariantho: ^.^
[12:44] Kelly Linden: Sorry, what is kelly related?
[12:44] Martinrj Fayray: Kelly could you help us sorting out STORM-1913, I've been looking into the problem, but I blame the font that the viewer uses
[12:44] Tillie Ariantho: Cursor offset when typing in script editor...
[12:44] Scorch Braveheart: Script cursor being whacked out I think
[12:45] Sahkolihaa Contepomi cringes at 'fonts' and 'viewer'.
[12:45] Simon Linden: We just deal with the server-side scripting stuff, not the editor
[12:45] Jonathan Yap: How is that server related?
[12:45] Qie Niangao: on the plus side, there's an easy work-around: emacs. :p
[12:45] Kelly Linden: Not really, unfortunately. My guess would be the size calculations are busted for the monospace font.
[12:45] Tillie Ariantho: I only brought it up cause someone mentioned a similar bug. ;)
[12:46] Kelly Linden: but yeah, that bug hits me too.
[12:46] Scorch Braveheart: Ehrm, I have a scripting-related topic if nobody else has anything to ask.
[12:46] Scorch Braveheart: :s
[12:47] Scorch Braveheart: Ehrm, alright then.
[12:47] Rex Cronon: i have question right after yours scorch. but go ahead:)
[12:47] Scorch Braveheart: This happened quite some time ago, but I do recall sensors being able to sense across sim bounds, if there were objects within its range over the border.
[12:47] Simon Linden: go for it, Dr.
[12:48] Scorch Braveheart: I think it probably broke around the time the agent list changes rolled through.
[12:49] Rex Cronon: i think i heard somebody talking about this. it seems is a new feature:)
[12:49] Kelly Linden: llSensorRepeat will work across region borders but llSensor will not and has not.
[12:49] Scorch Braveheart: I do recall it being broken...
[12:49] Scorch Braveheart: I don't use llSensor much anyway.
[12:50] Scorch Braveheart: I use llSensorRepeat on everything
[12:50] Simon Linden: Is that not working now across region boundaries?
[12:50] Kelly Linden: llSensor would have to wait a long time potentially to get results from all neighbors and the decision was made when sensors were created to not wait for that. llSensorRepeat on the other hand is an ongoing thing and neighboring results are added as they come in.
[12:51] Scorch Braveheart: I'm fairly sure it's still broken, but I'll check it right now so as not to waste anyone's time.
[12:51] Rex Cronon: i have a scanner that uses like that too
[12:51] Scorch Braveheart: No harm in being doubly sure.
[12:52] Qie Niangao: Somewhat related: it would be immensely useful if llCastRay() could go 10m into the neighboring region, as llSetRegionPos() can
[12:52] Rex Cronon: uses llsensorepeat*
[12:53] Simon Linden: Qie - I can imagine that's useful, but the reason llSetRegionPos() can do it is different .. it's a lot easier for one region to know about the neighbor parcels than all the object details
[12:53] Qie Niangao: ah, true. well, it's workable as-is, just more ugly code in the script. :)
[12:54] Simon Linden: llCastRay() uses the physics engine for ray casting, and the objects from the neighbor region aren't in the physics engine on the first region
[12:54] Qie Niangao: Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense.
[12:54] Simon Linden: yeah, you have to code around that limit
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: just add the object details of all connected regions to each other...
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: would could possibly go wrong? :P
[12:55] Simon Linden: lol, it's all easy until one thing moves
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: hehe
[12:55] Rex Cronon: ok. this is my question. is it possible for others to ban u from your own land if they r in same group as u but have no such rights?
[12:56] Da5id Kronfeld: Maybe ban object movement?
[12:56] Rex Cronon: or can u be banned by others that r now even in your group?
[12:57] Simon Linden: I don't think so, Rex
[12:57] Simon Linden: You're talking about the parcel access banned list, right?
[12:57] Rex Cronon: yes
[12:57] Simon Linden: The parcel owner shouldn't ever get added to that list, I believe
[12:58] Duckie Dickins: well it's group land
[12:58] Rex Cronon: so if parcel owner is added is definitively an error
[12:58] Lexbot Sinister: deed land, and maybe not group owner?
[12:59] Rex Cronon: i know there were some lsl functions that did weird things to banned lists
[12:59] Whirly Fizzle: I can't remember exact details but its possible to ban an estate owner on a Parcel on their own estate. they can still enter the parcel but strange things happen, I think they don't see any chat or something. Id need to find that JIRA
[12:59] Simon Linden: Let's back up -- did this happen?
[12:59] Rex Cronon: i thought maybe by overloading these functions would be possible to ban owner
[12:59] Rex Cronon: i heard that it happened. not to me
[13:00] Prokofy Neva: Of course it's possible
[13:00] Prokofy Neva: It's an exploit that is functioning in my rental groups right now and Rex knows that
[13:00] Scorch Braveheart: I'm not having any luck.
[13:00] Simon Linden: What exactly is done, then?
[13:00] Prokofy Neva: griefers who do not have the power to ban in the group are able to add the group officers banning them from their own land, and they can rapidly fill up the ban list with 50 random names, some not even in the people list, and Lindens
[13:01] Prokofy Neva: it's a script or rogue viewer who knows, can't get to the bottom of it, Andrew was alerted to it some time ago
[13:01] Tillie Ariantho: oh dear, sounds serious.
[13:02] Prokofy Neva: well it's been serious for 18 months and reported endlessly
[13:02] Rex Cronon: it could affect anybody any time
[13:02] Simon Linden: well, if anyone can get info on how it's done, that's a huge leap forward to tracking it down
[13:02] Tillie Ariantho: >.<
[13:02] Whirly Fizzle: Ive heard rumblings there is a dodgy viewer that can do that but Ive no idea if its true
[13:02] Prokofy Neva: well Simon it would require Lindens looking at server logs to see the agents entering the sim and doing that
[13:02] Prokofy Neva: or the script injecting 50 names into a list suddenly
[13:02] Prokofy Neva: that's why I think it's a script b/c suddenly the ban list fills with names
[13:03] Prokofy Neva: this is on Mainland
[13:03] Rex Cronon: either script or moded viewer
[13:03] Prokofy Neva: the reason I say "script' is because like Ban Link and other banning systems it's loading the parcel ban list instantly
[13:03] Simon Linden: yeah, someone might code their viewer to bypass the UI for all that
[13:03] Prokofy Neva: I haven't seen that on viewers but I suppose a viewer could do that
[13:04] Tillie Ariantho: There should be no bypassing, isnt everything validated on serverside? Never trust the client. :P
[13:04] Prokofy Neva: It is *damn annoying* to have to go through deleting yourself from the ban list of your own land endlessly every day
[13:04] Martinrj Fayray: I know a way (I reported that a while ago in the Jira) to add more than the allowed (I believe) 300 people to the list, which makes the list drop most of the entries, with the standard viewer
[13:04] Martinrj Fayray: Maybe that's similar
[13:05] Scorch Braveheart: Hm, I'm definitely having issues sensing over borders.
[13:05] Prokofy Neva: then there's a puzzle of how names not in the people list get put in the ban list
[13:05] Simon Linden: I thought that one got fixed, Martin
[13:05] Tillie Ariantho: Server accepting requests without checking permissions... should be easy to find? >.<
[13:05] Rex Cronon: this thing can be quite dangerous
[13:05] Da5id Kronfeld: That sounds a whole lot like a bypassed check somewhere.
[13:06] Prokofy Neva: Why am I the only one complaining about this for more than a year? (Because I'm the last person left on the Mainland I guess).
[13:06] Rex Cronon: sounds like a backdoor
[13:06] Simon Linden: I need to wrap up as we're out of time
[13:06] Da5id Kronfeld: It sounds a bit like a server trusting client input, in fact.
[13:07] Prokofy Neva: "the client is in the hands of the enemy"
[13:07] Simon Linden: if someone has a case where they know the time they're added to a ban list like that, please file a BUG jira with the details and send me a notecard about it, and I'll go check logs
[13:08] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good conversation
[13:08] Rex Cronon: can anybody file a BUG jira?
[13:08] Simon Linden: Yes Rex
[13:08] Whirly Fizzle: Yes
[13:08] Tillie Ariantho: Profoky: there is more where you wonder why nothing is happening. There is this griefergirl called Ramonzita, she is copybotting everything and griefing large events, asking for like 80k or she would crash the event... She's doing that for ages, and she is still in SL with her main avatar ...
[13:08] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: thanks for your time, siman, baker, and kelly
[13:08] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon, Baker, and Kelly wherever you are. Have fun all.
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