Doc Team/2010-04-28

== Transcript ==
[13:03]	:	hi Fisher
[13:03]	:	Helllo Jeremy
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	Hello all!
[13:03]	:	Heya!
[13:03]	:	Flying sometimes fixes that, but not in no-fly zones
[13:03]	:	hiya
[13:04]	:	Hi Jeremy Linden
[13:04]	 	has pinged you.
[13:04]	:	We just got told by a not-to-named Linden that you dont document your stuff well. :P Example: XUI. :P
[13:04]	:	yes. XUI is impenetrable
[13:05]	:	/me waits for his chair to rez behind him.
[13:05]	:	You should bring your own deck of cards, Jeremy.
[13:05]	 	has pinged you.
[13:05]	:	What is XUI again?
[13:05]	:	not-to-be-named I meant. ^^
[13:05]	:	Ah. Well, that's tech docs. My team covers user docs, which is largely the viewer as-delivered :-)
[13:05]	:	Happy Wednesday :)
[13:05]	:	Files that describe user interface layout and colors
[13:05]	:	ah
[13:05]	:	happy wednesday to you too kate :J
[13:05]	:	Jeremy: we need it for users who want to customize the UI. ;)
[13:05]	 	has pinged you.
[13:05]	:	So where is the techdocs OH?
[13:05]	:	will that be added to SL2.0 viewer?
[13:05]	:	Thank you Skills!
[13:05]	:	Hi Kate Linden
[13:06]	:	Hey Elite :)
[13:06]	:	Hello Kate Linden
[13:06]	:	Hi Nathan :)
[13:06]	:	Where is Torley?
[13:06]	:	torley is late again tsk tsk
[13:06]	:	I'm not sure if Torley will make it today.
[13:06]	:	hi everybody
[13:06]	:	Yah, you get rrid of us if you tell us who's doing (not) the XUI docs. :P
[13:06]	:	You can find most of the more technical stuff on the wiki. Arbitrary Lindens will put info there, and many very active Residents do too.
[13:06]	:	/me found mention of Linden Labs, on the internet: I'm sure PR won't be interested in this remake of Animal House... http://www.usnews.com/blogs/paper-trail/2010/04/22/california-college-loses-second-life-for-a-second-time.html
[13:07]	:	Jeremy, when I see the way some outfits handle UI issue, I blame Kai Krause.
[13:07]	 	has pinged you.
[13:07]	:	oh that article is so full of ......
[13:07]	:	typical woodbury propaganda
[13:07]	:	I'm sure the people doing the XUI Docs are very prompt, about attending their office hours 100%, which is to say, nobody never.
[13:08]	:	The University hasn't been Perma-Banned?
[13:08]	:	yes they have
[13:08]	:	Is Torley Linden coming?
[13:08]	:	Torley can't make it today. Computer problems :-(
[13:08]	:	ouch
[13:09]	:	for more info also read this: http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/43467-farewell-woodbury-11.html
[13:09]	:	Doesn't have anything to do with tips & tricks but I noticed my options for freeze & eject are active again. Not seen those active for awhile.
[13:09]	:	heh. permabans are so... ephemeral
[13:09]	:	how much of https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Skinning_HowTo/Basics etc. is still accurate for 2.x?
[13:09]	:	well they had it coming
[13:09]	:	it was an absolutely correct decision
[13:09]	:	imho
[13:10]	:	I'm afraid I'm not up-to-date on the accuracy of the skinning instructions on the wiki. As I mentioned earlier, that's a bit more advanced than the stuff this team usually covers.
[13:11]	:	We need a stunt Torley.
[13:11]	:	Via Twitter: "torley 
 I'm sorry I can't be there at Documentation Team office hours today, wrangling computer problems!"
[13:11]	:	http://twitter.com/torley
[13:11]	:	Who would we have to ask?
[13:11]	:	Thanks Daniel :)
[13:12]	:	is this OH in voice?
[13:12]	:	Glad I didn't lockup completely. Tried to look at website and everything froze till page open in extrernal browser.
[13:13]	:	wierd
[13:13]	:	Rex this OH is in text chat.
[13:13]	:	thanks:)
[13:14]	:	Boroondas, it looks like that is a Resident-maintained page, last updated in September. I'd try Q's office hours and ask if skinning has changed significantly with Viewer 2.0. If not, then the page is probably still good :-)
[13:14]	:	Have you taken a look at the new script info windows on avatar and land?
[13:15]	:	I have. it's pretty informative.
[13:15]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598
[13:15]	:	yes Kate... lots of good info in those windows
[13:15]	:	Yes, totally useless to me.
[13:15]	:	How so Ardy?
[13:15]	:	Read the report. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598
[13:15]	:	oh, that's weird
[13:15]	:	/me looks
[13:16]	:	Maestro Linden helped with the reproduction.
[13:16]	:	I'm still looking for ways to reduce scripts. regrettably, there's no equivalent for llGetObjectDesc that will work on a sub-prim, so we're still stuck adding trivial scripts to the subprims to do the job.
[13:16]	:	Still, it's just a bug, not a total failure. :-)
[13:17]	:	Once that is cleared up it will be very useful to me.
[13:17]	:	Thanks for the JIRA. I'm going to see Maestro tomorrow and I'll ask him more about it. :)
[13:18]	:	Are any writers here headed to the STC Summit conference next week?
[13:18]	:	Thanks for the attention. DEV-48292 seems to be linked.
[13:19]	:	Whats STC ? :)
[13:19]	:	Silly Typers Conference?
[13:19]	:	STC is short for Society for Technical Communication. It's a big organization of technical writers like me and Kate :-)
[13:19]	:	ah
[13:19]	:	Jeremy and Rand will be presenting at the Society for Technical Communication conference next week :)
[13:19]	 	has pinged you.
[13:20]	:	Yep! We're going to talk about the Viewer Help system, which this team designed and wrote :-)
[13:20]	:	I actually build code of developers, not document it for the users. :P
[13:20]	:	Well, we didn't program it, but we wrote the content :-P
[13:20]	:	so, where can some documentation of the new xml files used to cread the gui:)
[13:21]	:	Will tere be a way to design your own GUI system, beyond merely changing the skins?>
[13:21]	:	some documentation be found*
[13:21]	:	to create the gui*
[13:22]	:	hmmm... just noticed the Help menu stays put when the Advanced and Develop menus are added. Odd choice.
[13:22]	:	Rex, I'm not sure. We've been focused on creating help for newer Residents with this release.
[13:22]	:	However, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist! Someone outside the documentation team may have posted updated info on the XML files.
[13:23]	:	if u guys that r on the documentation team don't know where such files can be found, how a normal resident find them?
[13:24]	:	/me giggles
[13:24]	:	just give it some time, it's probably not ready for release yet
[13:24]	:	how can a *
[13:25]	:	Rex, we represent the Customer Support side of documentation. We're responsible for writing about things you can do with Second Life as-is.
[13:26]	:	Modifying XML files is a bit more advanced than the stuff we usually work on, but because of the nature of wikis, it's possible someone else has posted useful info :-)
[13:26]	:	I'm glad the help screens don't trigger much for advanced users. Hopefully they're providing just what new people need.
[13:26]	:	ok. i guess documenting xml files is not part of what your team is responssible
[13:27]	:	Correct, Rex. Sorry for the confusion!
[13:27]	:	Jeremy, no customer should need to re-write XML to sort out the viewer.
[13:27]	 	has pinged you.
[13:27]	:	Exactly, Wolf.
[13:27]	:	I think back on how long it took me to learn everything - I can understand why new folks need the extra help. Cann't chase down Lindens these days for help.
[13:27]	:	Yet that seems to be one of the standard problem solutions.
[13:29]	:	well there's not really a huge difference between 2.0 and 1.2x xui
[13:29]	:	There' a new version for Snowglobe?
[13:29]	:	even tho the GUI itself is drastically different?
[13:29]	:	There are so many Residents now, Flenser... We try our best to help everyone help themselves by providing online help. It's not perfect, but it scales better than hiring 20,000 Lindens to keep up with live support :-)
[13:30]	:	/me still wonders what happened to Volunteer Mentors
[13:30]	:	Yep. I remember long talks with folks like Pathfinder. Cann't even find him online very much anymore.
[13:30]	:	Pathfinder is no longer at Linden Lab :-(
[13:30]	:	heh
[13:30]	:	aww
[13:31]	:	but he's still around on pathfinder lester sometimes ;)
[13:31]	:	We've put together a few programs that provide help areas for Resident self -help or collaboration, such as SL Answers.
[13:31]	:	Has he a new job, yet?
[13:31]	:	Hello :)
[13:31]	:	hi
[13:31]	:	The Resident Help Network includes many mentor groups within SL.
[13:32]	:	There's no help at help island?
[13:32]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Help_Network_Portal :)
[13:32]	:	Thanks Daniel :)
[13:32]	:	welcome!
[13:32]	:	Is still hard to visualise how big SL is today. Can remember the first stress tests of the system - where it was a big deal to have 4,000 people online at once.
[13:33]	:	SL Discovery Island and Welcome Island nowadays....
[13:33]	:	The Quick Start Guides are located in the viewer sidebar for quick reference, and we've added context-sensitive help to nearly every Viewer 2 window :)
[13:33]	:	Nathan, in response to your question about configurable UI, I've just been cleared to say, "Yes, we'll have it eventually." :-)
[13:33]	:	:D
[13:34]	:	Quick Start Guides aren't thesame, as people who know people who might know something.
[13:34]	:	are there any guides planned in regards to the TPVP?
[13:34]	:	TPVP?
[13:34]	:	might be a bit late now actually heh
[13:34]	:	Hm, I see "EDIT" and "Do not edit, this is being translated" at the same time. :P
[13:34]	:	the third party viewer policy
[13:34]	:	it confused alot of people and it might get worse on the 30th
[13:35]	:	Tillie, when there are dual notices on an article, it is due to a transcluded article with it's own status showing as well.
[13:35]	:	Now leaving god mode, level 200
[13:35]	:	Transcluded?
[13:35]	:	Kate: this is all pages on the wiki?
[13:35]	:	Skills, I don't know that we have Quick Start Guides on the horizon for policies.
[13:35]	:	Tillie, that is with viewerhelp pages.
[13:35]	:	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion
[13:36]	:	So bundled with the client? a ha.
[13:36]	:	We don't use status templates with our KB articles.
[13:36]	:	What you are seeing are just status templates in viewerhelp articles :)
[13:37]	:	(At least that's what it sounds like from what you've asked.)
[13:38]	:	Jeremy, I keep seeing you vanish.
[13:38]	 	has pinged you.
[13:38]	:	Tillie, did you see those messages in the Viewer when you clicked a help button?
[13:39]	:	I'm vanishing? :-O
[13:39]	:	When I logged in today, I was a naked Ruth. I suppose vanishing is better than that :-X
[13:39]	:	A NAKED ruth?!?!?
[13:39]	:	Grey, just like old times?
[13:39]	:	Sounds like a job for Viewer 2 Beta - took a while to load textures here but no problems seeing everyone now.
[13:40]	:	Not gray, I was actually the default skin tone. It was a bug report waiting to happen.
[13:40]	:	eek
[13:40]	:	tc everybody
[13:41]	:	Jeremy, same thing happened to me last week sometime. Just like old times.
[13:41]	 	has pinged you.
[13:41]	:	There is a new tag for avatar clouds in Viewer 2.01 that says "[Loading...]" .
[13:41]	:	Oh, yes! Thanks for pointing that out, Kate.
[13:42]	:	I believe you can see it in 2.0 on someone loading in 2.01.
[13:42]	:	I'm also noticing context-sensitive icons for click actions when I hover my mouse over objects.
[13:42]	:	Never mind, Kate, the next step is to start using a powder horn
[13:43]	:	/me sees Qie as (Loading...)
[13:43]	:	Loading time varies for different people depending on their system, bandwidth, region, and all things that can affect performance.
[13:43]	:	is getting stuck in edit mode still a bug? or is it just me?
[13:43]	:	powder horn?
[13:44]	:	It's helpful to some people to understand that a cloud avatar is someone who is still loading. :)
[13:44]	:	Powder Horns are for loading the muzzle loader muskets.
[13:44]	:	Derek, I'ved noticed that a couple times. Are you able to get out of edit mode by entering it again and then exiting?
[13:44]	:	sometimes, sometimes i have to click the land or sky to un-highlite things
[13:45]	:	Derek is that happening in 2.01?
[13:45]	:	also happens when inspecting things
[13:45]	:	um.. im in the most recent kiristins now
[13:45]	:	i dont remember if its in 2.01 lol
[13:46]	:	s/Is/Was
[13:46]	:	I didn't have any troubles last night after upgrading but am seeing annoying selectstoday.
[13:46]	:	Assumed it was trouble with sims I was in.
[13:46]	:	all i know is i've seen it in all 2.0 viewers i've tried, idk if its in 2.01 specifically
[13:47]	:	Derek: I am in 2.0.1 right now and the outlining sticks with an item, I only need to rightclick it.
[13:47]	:	Then i see a glowing frame, and it doesnt vanish even after deselecting the item.
[13:47]	:	yes thats what i get
[13:47]	:	It was reported loooong ago, still not fixed it seems.
[13:48]	:	/me watches the particle poofs all over the place as people select things.
[13:48]	:	lol
[13:48]	:	Do you have a JIRA #?
[13:48]	:	looking for it
[13:49]	:	Thanks Tillie
[13:49]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16993
[13:49]	:	"When I click on an object in-world it stays highlighted (like a selection-highlight)."
[13:50]	:	Yeow, can't deselect the barrel
[13:50]	:	71 votes.
[13:50]	:	Thanks Tillie
[13:50]	:	unassigned. :P
[13:50]	:	㋡
[13:50]	:	will be 72 soon
[13:50]	:	Have to click myself to deselect the object.
[13:50]	:	But has an issue ID: EXT-4128
[13:50]	:	Has it become reproducible?
[13:51]	:	It is pretty much reproducable. Rightclick something and then hit Esc to deselect the item
[13:51]	:	Object Profile + Details seems to stick it too.
[13:51]	:	simple rightclick is all you need to get stuck with it.
[13:52]	:	Even just click the i ... the inspector to get stuck.
[13:52]	:	It doesn't happen for me in V 2.0.0
[13:52]	:	ESC does not deselect.
[13:52]	:	You didn't have to upgrade to 2.0.1?
[13:53]	:	Using Second Life 2.0.1 (203797)
[13:53]	:	I have downloaded 2.01.
[13:53]	:	i find myself tapping esc several times before i realise is isnt going to deslest lol
[13:54]	:	I can't repro it but other Residents have mentioned this as well.
[13:54]	:	Every release of V2 has this problem.
[13:55]	:	When you put an object in edit, then close the edit window, the object remains selected?
[13:55]	:	I can confirm it was like this in 2.0.0
[13:56]	:	even if you just right click it sometimes
[13:56]	:	I've seen a screenshot of it too. I just can't repro it lol
[13:56]	:	Kate, be specific, how are you putting an object in edit and how are you closing the edit window?
[13:56]	:	I only need to rightclick anything to get the context menu, and then I am stuck with it.
[13:56]	:	And the Knowledge Bear remains selected after I buy one.
[13:56]	:	Clicked on myself and it cleared.
[13:57]	:	Does your avatar arm remain in selection position?
[13:57]	:	no
[13:57]	:	Not right now since I'm sitting but is that way rest of time.
[13:57]	:	mine usually dose
[13:57]	:	Right-click, select Edit, "X" widget to close Edit window, hight remains and arm is still pointing at selected object.
[13:57]	:	ah yes. I am still pointing at it.
[13:58]	:	only my AO hid it. ^^
[13:58]	:	Highlight is yellow and blue.
[13:58]	:	Does ctrl-E deselect it?
[13:58]	:	Click my own avatar mesh to release object.
[13:58]	:	Yes, Control-E releases the object.
[13:59]	:	Yes, for me Ctrl-E works. So it seems to be an edit-mode without open-edit window. ^^
[13:59]	:	Thanks for your feedback :)
 
Generated with SLog Wikifier
__NOINDEX__
Category:Documentation Office Hours