Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-12-02

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on December 02nd, 2010
= Agenda =
== Back at it today! ==
I hope everyone had a decent holiday weekend. For those in North America at least.
== Threaded Rez ==
* we disabled it because of issues with non thread safe code
* still working on a fix for that
== BlueSteel made it to the big time ==
=== linkability ===
* https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/10 
=== AIS ===
* now enabled 
=== LeTigre Updated ===
* maint-server fixes
* https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/LeTigre
== Mr Stone is here today ==
* XMPP
* Inv issues maybe?
== Upcoming Stuff ==
* Fix for coming soon.
** "Avatar and the ship sails attached to the avatar do not rez beyond 80 meters"
* Group Limits
== Story time with Uncle Falcon ==
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for December 02nd, 2010:* [15:01] Jonathan Yap: How did everyone get here so fast
* [15:01] Cale Flanagan: with a taxy?!
* [15:01] Eddi Decosta: heya alll
* [15:02] Jonathan Yap: See, Oskar is not RIP
* [15:02] SHAMUS Carter: so oskar who is Vektor Linden?
* [15:02] Lil Linden: howdy
* [15:02] Eddi Decosta: viva Radegast :)
* [15:02] SHAMUS Carter: and whay did he leave a box saing I'll miss you Oskar :(
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: Vektor Linden was the original server qa guy
* [15:02] SHAMUS Carter: ahhh
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: he started this OH
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: just like he started the SL Beta group
* [15:02] SHAMUS Carter: feals stupid
* [15:02] Eddi Decosta: hi Oskar, where is my coffee cup? :p
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: he will be missed
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: a lot!
* [15:02] Jacky Scharf: Gooooood evening everybody. 
* [15:03] Jonathan Yap: Did he just leave?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: his last day was two weeks ago
* [15:03] Jonathan Yap: awww
* [15:03] Adamburp Adamczyk: yoohoo
* [15:03] Nya Raymaker: harumpf. guess this swing is made for smalle avis lol
* [15:03] Cale Flanagan: could you please sit updsidedown, our tag is wrong?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: turn your computer around
* [15:03] Eddi Decosta: hi maestro :)
* [15:03] Cale Flanagan: a bug fixed:)
* [15:04] Lares Carter: heya everyone =)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: clears his throat and gets ready to start this party
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: good day fellow beta testers
* [15:04] SHAMUS Carter: howdy
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: for those in the US how was the long weekend?
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: for those outside the US did you miss me last week?
* [15:04] SHAMUS Carter: tpo long
* [15:04] Flynn Tigerpaw: too short :D
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:05] Eddi Decosta: yeah to long for me :)
* [15:05] Jacky Scharf: Oskar, I was here last week ... after a griefer attack.
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I haz an agenda
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: welcome to falcon lil and stone
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: btw
* [15:05] Lil Linden: o/
* [15:06] anticrash_REGULAR: Attachments: cannot use llVolumeDetect.
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: I wonder if simon was planning on stopping by
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: he'll make it if he can
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: let's chat about threaded rez first
* [15:06] Eddi Decosta: hey lil long time no see:)
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [15:07] Falcon Linden: Why am I always last on the list?
* [15:07] SHAMUS Carter: ahh so thats whay stguff is brok/ not workign well
* [15:07] Lil Linden: it has been a while :)
* [15:07] Falcon Linden: I hate you, Oskar. I hate you!
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: there is a good reason falcon
* [15:07] Falcon Linden: /storms off
* [15:07] Falcon Linden: storms off, too
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: you're my closer
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: these guys wait through all my boring stuff just to get to you
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: you're dessert
* [15:07] Falcon Linden: uh huh, suuuure
* [15:08] Falcon Linden: excuses excuses
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: anyways, Threaded Rez or T-Rez for short had a few issues
* [15:08] SHAMUS Carter: few?
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so we had to disable it
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: some code wasn't thread safe
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: started fighting with the good code
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: it got messy
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so we had to disable
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: lil was out of town
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: it was rough
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: simon is working on a fix
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: then we can maybe turn it back on
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: but not anytime soon
* [15:09] Jonathan Yap: Changes are locked out until when?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: our no change window starts december 17th
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: lasts til january something
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: so we still have a chance to disrupt the grid for you christmas
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: I mean stabilize it more
* [15:10] SHAMUS Carter: so fix what is brok befor then
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: we'll see what gets fixed by then
* [15:10] Gooden Uggla: with kelly going on vacation soon, how does that effect the mono fix phases?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: kelly is already on vacation
* [15:10] Gooden Uggla: well sh1t
* [15:10] Jonathan Yap: Is Kelly a 1 person department?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: so yeah
* [15:11] Falcon Linden: Jonathan: more or less :)
* [15:11] Gooden Uggla: jonathan - yes
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:11] SHAMUS Carter: keely needs to work dourign her vacation :P
* [15:11] Gooden Uggla: i shoulda known better than to get my hopes up...
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: kelly is a guy
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: but yeah
* [15:12] SHAMUS Carter: his
* [15:12] ac14 Hutson: packet loss is so insane i could barely log in, hopefully i can still hear whats going on
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: might be AIS related?
* [15:12] Jonathan Yap: This region was just rebooted
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: not sure
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: you mean here?
* [15:13] SHAMUS Carter: YEEEAAAAHH!!!
* [15:13] SHAMUS Carter: the packets have been prity messly latly
* [15:13] Jonathan Yap: yes
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: or on AGNI?
* [15:13] Jonathan Yap: here
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: oh
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: iuno
* [15:13] Stone Linden: negative, actually inventory api isn't running on aditi right now.
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: everyone say welcome to makai
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: makai works in the seattle office with me
* [15:13] Maestro Linden: I haven't noticed that myself, either at the office or at home. Maybe it's some regional thing?
* [15:13] ac14 Hutson: here i was able to log in after the 3rd retry and with a a TPV, i tryed tping a bit away from here but ended up running into the "blue sea" for 2 minutes
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: hi makai
* [15:13] Stone Linden: hi makai!
* [15:13] Makai Linden: hey there
* [15:14] Flynn Tigerpaw: welcome makai!
* [15:14] Jacky Scharf: On AGNI I had too much packet losses the last days.
* [15:14] Lares Carter: heya Makai :)
* [15:14] SHAMUS Carter: so what was with thos invintory issues the past few days i heard some people lost alomsoit an hourse worth of changers?
* [15:14] Eddi Decosta: hi Makai
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: makai is thinking about starting up his own office hours and wanted to check mine out
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: you wanna introduce yourself makai?
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: so, when u can't find oskar we come to u to track him down:)
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: and here is Xan Linden too :-D
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: lots of guests today
* [15:15] Xan Linden: what is threaded rez?
* [15:15] SHAMUS Carter: hi xan and makai
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: hopes xan is joking
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: what a kidder
* [15:15] Xan Linden: :)
* [15:15] Cale Flanagan: no coffee anymore or what?:)
* [15:15] Makai Linden: sure.... I work with the Marketplace team and we are ramping up to start our own office hours
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: thanks makai
* [15:15] Lil Linden: SHAMUS - there is a bug that sometimes causes the sim to crash on shutdown.. during the rolling restart, this prevented some sims from saving their simstates properly and they reverted to the previous save
* [15:15] Xan Linden: hi all
* [15:15] Makai Linden: so Oskar was nice enough to invite me to check his out
* [15:16] SHAMUS Carter: ouch
* [15:16] Lil Linden: yeah
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: my home region of pooley was hit as well
* [15:16] Jonathan Yap: I thought that crash bug just got fixed?
* [15:16] Lil Linden: we're working on it
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: it destroyed the Oskar Tower
* [15:16] Jonathan Yap: Maybe it is a newer one
* [15:16] Lil Linden: it is something new
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: so BlueSteel got pushed live this week
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: how's that been looking?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: it's got linkability changes and now AIS enabled
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: we did a slow enable of AIS over 2 days
* [15:17] Xan Linden: we're going to look at the AIS data tomorrow
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: xan is the data guy in case you were wondering
* [15:17] SHAMUS Carter: what is AIS>
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: he knows everything
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: he's like santa with his list
* [15:18] Stone Linden: shamus: i'll expalin at my turn, but here are the public docs if you want to read up: 
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: that Bluesteel update also has a fix for SVC-6528
* [15:18] JIRA-helper: Status: 500
* [15:18] Xan Linden: fyi, did you know that 99% of inventory requests (for your inv folder items) take < 1 s
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: uh oh jirabot died
* [15:18] Gooden Uggla: thinks it's sade to suggest that a marketplace OH won't be quite as civil, and hands Makai a hockey helmet
* [15:18] ac14 Hutson: lol.
* [15:19] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, I can get you a fixed jira-helper, but it'son the other grid
* [15:19] Xan Linden: i'm here b/c i've been tracking threaded rez pretty closely
* [15:19] Jacky Scharf: Oh, the turkey crashed the Jira-Bot? .
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: np jonathan I can update your account after this
* [15:19] Makai Linden: heh, yah, we're expecting that
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: whose av has that little quivering voice sound I just heard now?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I've always wondered what that sound was
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: anyways. moving on
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: LeTigre got the maint-server stuff form andrew
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: so let me know if you hear anything wonky about LeTigre
* [15:20] Gooden Uggla: seems to run ok, we've had 2 events (about 20 each) on that sercver
* [15:20] Gooden Uggla: nothing popped up that we saw
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: maint-server is mostly bugfixes, but there are a few new features
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: that's good
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: so Mr Stone
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: what do you have for us today?
* [15:21] Stone Linden: wonders if we're chat only?
* [15:21] Jonathan Yap: yes
* [15:21] SHAMUS Carter: yusa
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we are
* [15:21] Stone Linden: enabled now on Agni is the inventory api, formerly known as AIS
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: makes it easier to provide transcripts
* [15:22] Stone Linden: the docs are here, as I posted a few moments ago: 
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: and no one wants to hear my voice anyways
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: claps for AIS
* [15:22] Flynn Tigerpaw: text chat is easier to follow
* [15:22] SHAMUS Carter: yup
* [15:22] Stone Linden: this service replaces the UDP messaging for the FetchInventory and FetchInventoryDescendents UDP messages with HTTP capabilities.
* [15:22] Jacky Scharf: Falcon sleeps. .
* [15:22] Rex Cronon: yeap
* [15:22] Stone Linden: the result is more reliable inventory loading.
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: it's jacky!
* [15:23] Jacky Scharf: Hmmm?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: what kind of issues should people look out for Stone?
* [15:23] Stone Linden: it's actually not rolled to the beta grid, but that will happen in the next few weeks
* [15:23] Jonathan Yap: This is between the sim hosts and the asset servers?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: you wanna give a technical description stone?
* [15:23] Stone Linden: it's between the sim and the viewer
* [15:24] Lil Linden: and the sim and the inventory database :)
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: so if your runign a 1.23based cleent your sol?
* [15:24] Stone Linden: nope!
* [15:24] Jonathan Yap: I guess it is like http textures then
* [15:24] Stone Linden: if you're on 1.23, you already have this code.
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: it s backwards compatible Shamus
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*Yayyyyyyy!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
* [15:24] Stone Linden: the client side was written almost 2 years ago
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: o.0
* [15:24] Stone Linden: it's the server side that's taken a while to roll out.
* [15:25] SHAMUS Carter: took us this long?
* [15:25] Stone Linden: Most third party viewers should have this code as well.
* [15:25] Stone Linden: basically, look out for inventory that doesn't load. especially look for patterns
* [15:26] Stone Linden: "help, my inventory is broken!" is really hard to help. but, "help! when I do X, the inventory in folder Y disappears!" is extremely helpful.
* [15:26] Xan Linden: *look for inventory items in your inv folder, right stone?
* [15:26] Stone Linden: ;)
* [15:26] Xan Linden: not necessarily asset rez issues
* [15:26] Stone Linden: right, asset rez is not changed
* [15:26] SHAMUS Carter: so if your item x gose poof from folder y scream blody murder?
* [15:27] SHAMUS Carter: and fiules a jira
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: first you scream to yourself
* [15:27] Xan Linden: right. and then send a notecard to every linden in the find tool
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: then find a repro
* [15:27] Xan Linden: kidding
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: then politely tell us about it in jira
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: and send cookies
* [15:27] Stone Linden: so that's on the inventory front
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: what else ya got for us Stone?
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: first clear cache and relog, then scream, then jira
* [15:27] Stone Linden: we have another exciting thing going down in the world of chat
* [15:27] Nya Raymaker: (???)
* [15:27] Rex Cronon: com on. do u know how u feel whenu see your a whole inventory gone?
* [15:28] Stone Linden: we're working on an XMPP service.
* [15:28] Flynn Tigerpaw: where do we try the inv thing out?
* [15:28] Stone Linden: Joe: anywhere on Agni
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: hi nya
* [15:28] SHAMUS Carter: sweet xmpp
* [15:28] Stone Linden: (I'll try to switch Aditi over in 1-2 weeks)
* [15:29] Jacky Scharf: XMPP on Aditi in the next weeks?
* [15:29] SHAMUS Carter: will it alow for external cleients?
* [15:29] Stone Linden: So the XMPP service is going to be available for a dedicated development / project viewer, as well as external clients.
* [15:30] Stone Linden: We're working on the project viewer right now, and will post it publicly Really Soon (TM) -- I'm not personally working on that part of the project, so I'm not sure on the specific timing.
* [15:30] Jonathan Yap: Will it be restricted to this grid?
* [15:31] Stone Linden: Yes, It's going to be first on one dev grid, and we'll take it from there.
* [15:31] SHAMUS Carter: will it be bundled in with a mesh client update?
* [15:31] Eddi Decosta: Stone, have a question for you why the web viewer project is just set on the us IP , and not on the canadian ip to?
* [15:31] Stone Linden: We're going to use a separate project viewer.
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: testing a group chat protocol on a grid with 50 av concurrancy? ummm...
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: well we gotta start somewhere
* [15:32] Stone Linden: Eddi: I'm not familiar with that project.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: the web vwr stone
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: forgets the sekrit codeword for it
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: you'll neeed to have another nmajor mesh meeting and tag everyone to test it
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: on aditi
* [15:32] Jacky Scharf: (DE): [15:29
* [15:32] Stone Linden: Oskar: oh! right, well, i'm not familiar with the details of that project :)
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: me either
* [15:33] Eddi Decosta: ok sorry stone :)
* [15:33] Gooden Uggla: skylight
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: right
* [15:33] Stone Linden: Jacky: yes. It's not clear if that will become part of the final product when we release it to production, but we're definitely going to try it out and see!
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: I guess keep an eye out in the beta channels for news of when group chat changes are coming here
* [15:33] SHAMUS Carter: please tell me it will suport ssl ofr somthign
* [15:34] Gooden Uggla: or "the gaikai bandwidth drain hole"
* [15:34] Stone Linden: Shamus: not sure about SSL, I'll make a note to check on that.
* [15:34] Stone Linden: I expect that's a strong yes, but I don't want to make an incorrect commitment either way.
* [15:34] Gooden Uggla: oskar, you really will have to start a treasure hunting group to test that in aditi
* [15:35] Jonathan Yap: I guess you'll be needing a bridge system in place before it goes to the main grid?
* [15:35] Gooden Uggla: (as previously suggested)
* [15:35] Jacky Scharf: hopes, XMPP will run on other clients ... for users, who can't login to SL with a viewer.
* [15:35] Nya Raymaker: ooh a hunt on the beta grid...
* [15:35] SHAMUS Carter: same here
* [15:35] Nya Raymaker: now that would be an interesting concept. lol.
* [15:35] Stone Linden: Jonathan: we won't have a bridge in place at first. XMPP viewers and non-XMPP viewers won't be able to group chat with one another.
* [15:35] SHAMUS Carter: just think if you coudl logign with xmpp on your moble device and chat form anywhere
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: just think!
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: ...sorry
* [15:36] Falcon Linden: :P
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: I could get pinged by everyone from anywhere
* [15:36] Gooden Uggla: yup, it would be just like 2008 all over again
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: yay?
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: Stone, did you know there are bridges between group chat and an IRC channel?
* [15:36] Stone Linden: So, I think that's it for me today!
* [15:36] SHAMUS Carter: hehe text is handy on low power devices
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: thanks Stone!
* [15:37] SHAMUS Carter: irc bridges are very handy
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: so falcon is literally busting at the seams to go next
* [15:37] Gooden Uggla: thanks stone, very insightful
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: look at the tick his head has
* [15:37] Eddi Decosta: Thanks Stone have a nice evening
* [15:37] SHAMUS Carter: Thank You!! 
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: And by busting at the seams, Oskar means "impatient to move on to other things" :)
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: so I will let falcon jump up in the queue
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: and he can owe me
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: falcon says he has bugs to fix
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: bows to his most thoughtful host, Lord Oskar
* [15:38] Stone Linden: Jonathan: could you point me at a group chat / irc bridge? Is there some public code I can look at?
* [15:38] Gooden Uggla: not "big thanksgiving dinner"?
* [15:38] Jacky Scharf: likes to know the current chat system. IRC? Any else?
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: but he does his best work after 7pm anyway
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: And by "bugs to fix", of course, Oskar means "Things to break"
* [15:38] Jonathan Yap: Yes Stone, I will get back to you with more details
* [15:38] Falcon Linden: Speaking of which, I come to you today about breaking something.
* [15:38] SHAMUS Carter: awg has a bridge
* [15:39] Falcon Linden: Can anyone here provide me with a legitimate use case for the ability in LSL to cast the strings "NaN"/"Inf" to floating point NaN and Inf?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: ok falcon what are you breaking now?
* [15:39] SHAMUS Carter: you breakign stuff?
* [15:39] Falcon Linden: well, that depends on the answer to the above question
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: just a sec, our software guy is on skype
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: ...?
* [15:40] SHAMUS Carter: dosent jump pose use that?
* [15:40] Cale Flanagan: JumpPos uses a NaN ?!
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: no, jump pos uses an overflow elsewhere
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: it triggers a NaN inside our pipeline, but it doesn't actually require you to push a NaN in
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: is there a legitimate use case for the ability in LSL to cast the strings "NaN"/"Inf" to floating point NaN and Inf?
* [15:40] SHAMUS Carter: im sure there is
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: SHAMUS: not good enough
* [15:41] SHAMUS Carter: but i don't know off the top of my heads
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: I /know/ there are reasons for disabling it.
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: if you don't know can you guys ask around?
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: All right. Then you have until mesh is released to come up with some good reasons and let me know. Otherwise, thereafter (float)"NaN" and (float)"Infinity" will cause the script to crash with a Math Error
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: (same as trying to do llSqrt(-1))
* [15:41] Gooden Uggla: ravenous dingo says "not that i ever heard of"
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: this was a fact finding mission for falcon
* [15:42] Gooden Uggla: "tell him to break it!"
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: now everyone say "Thanks Uncle Falcon for asking us before breaking stuff intentionally!"
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: woohoo, breakin'!
* [15:42] Stone Linden: whispers: Jacky: current chat is not irc based, it's our own system, and if you've been in a large group chat, you know it's bursting at the seams :) Jonathan: I found it, a Group Chat - IRC relay bot. That'll become much easier with XMPP :)
* [15:42] Cale Flanagan: whats 1.304382E+19 for a number?
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: Also, has anyone played with the physics materials in mesh?
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: Cale: what, is that HUGE_VAL or MAX_FLOAT or something?
* [15:43] Cale Flanagan: thats the number in jumppos
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: ah
* [15:43] Jacky Scharf: Thx Oskar and Stone. 
* [15:43] Flynn Tigerpaw: I tried gravity
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: yeah, that shouldn't go away
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: gravity is fun.
* [15:44] SHAMUS Carter: gravity is fun
* [15:44] Cale Flanagan: and to physics override: it would be fine if the selcted materials sets the 3 values on bottom, immidiate not only on deselct/select
* [15:44] ac14 Hutson: I messed around with the gravity thing, is that going to cause confusion with ll SetBuoyancy?
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: if that's all we've got for Falcon we should let him get back to Castle Age, I mean fixing Havok
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: Cale: We'll be redoing the entire UI
* [15:44] Cale Flanagan: ok
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: Derp: llSetBuoyancy is entirely different
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: for one thing, it's far less efficient
* [15:45] ac14 Hutson: so im guessing bullets and stuff, should jsut use gravity instead.
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: llSetBuoyancy computes an antigravity force to apply to an object each frame. Gravity simply modifies how havok applies gravity
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: Derp: Bullets should use llCastRay(). But other things, yes, gravity :)
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: anything else for Falcon?
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: No?
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: sweet
* [15:46] ac14 Hutson: well, depending on how far CastRay can go, physical bullets are still going to be used lol.
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: Derp: There are ways to get around it. Be creative :)
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming Falcon and thanks for your patience while Stone went first
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: Very welcome. Au revoire for now.
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: and he's out
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: ok then
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: upcoming stuff
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: maestro you wanna talk about SVC-6556
* [15:47] JIRA-helper: Status: 500
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: tc
* [15:47] Lil Linden: hah
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: maestro?
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: did he go AFK again?
* [15:48] Nya Raymaker: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6556
* [15:48] JIRA-helper: Status: 500
* [15:48] Nya Raymaker: :)
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: he knows what happens when he goes AFK
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: group hug time
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: Avatar and the ship sails attached to the avatar do not rez beyond 80 meters
* [15:49] Maestro Linden: lol sorry guys
* [15:49] SHAMUS Carter: eeps.
* [15:49] Maestro Linden: was looking at my other viewer
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: there he is
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: group hug over
* [15:49] Lil Linden: gotta run :)
* [15:49] Maestro Linden: ok so, SVC-6556 has a lot of complaints
* [15:49] Rex Cronon: tc
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: but Simon made a tentative fix for it
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: it's deployed to most of the Aditi regions, including this one
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: with this version: ER-338_simon_server-trunk 10.12.02.215882
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: Anyway, I haven't had a chance to test the fix yet, but if all goes well, we hope to get this out to an RC channel next week
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: and group limits?
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: oh yes, so we're planning to increase the group limit from 25 to 40
* [15:51] SHAMUS Carter: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!!!!!
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: originally, both the viewer and server had the limit hardcoded to 25, so both need to be updated to allow for more adjustible limits
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: yay for hard coding
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: the viewer changes are out in viewer-dev, and should be included in viewer 2.4
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: we code harder than anyone else
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: the hardest coders around
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: the server changes might also go out to an RC channel next wek
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: *week
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: the limit will still be 25 for the time being right?
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: we're going to start off with a 'custom' limit of 25
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: yep
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:53] SHAMUS Carter: SL will be implementing a dynamic groups limit at some point. Initially it will be set to 40, but Andrew Linden said they may lower that if it causes too much load on their servers.
* It is done in viewer 2.4 by using the login response key “max-agent-groups”, and falling back to 25 if that’s not present. Currently this is not implemented yet in Agni or Aditi.
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: but some day, when all the servers support custom limits, we'll increase the limit everywhere at once
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: and the viewers (e.g. 2.4) that support configurable group limits will pick up the setting at login time
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: .. yeah what SHAMUS said :)
* [15:54] Flynn Tigerpaw: what happens if I use both viewers? (1.23 and 2) will 1.23 wipe out groups over 25?
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: won't wipe out
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: actually, login.aditi is showing a group limit of 40 right now
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: but you can't add more
* [15:54] SHAMUS Carter: yay for readign the tpv redmine/jirr thingy
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: you can still use and interact in the groups you have
* [15:54] Flynn Tigerpaw: OK great
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: ADITI has that issue now
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: but only 1 sim actually supports >25 groups
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: a lot of people have more than 25 groups here
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: because the importer tool only adds groups
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:55] SHAMUS Carter: •*•.. HahahaA •*•.. 
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: yeah, both the viewer UI and server only enforce the group limit when creating or joining groups
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: well then
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: anything else upcoming you want to mention maestro?
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: Hmm, nothing in particular. SImon's working on some related interest list bugs too.. we might get those out next week, if they work.
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: alrighy
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: anyone have anything else?
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: oh Eddi, I got an answer about your web viewer question
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: this one? Will there be testing of new server releases by people using the web based SL viewer?
* [15:57] Gooden Uggla: is simon going to try fixing estate bans again?
* [15:57] bigjr Slade: can we build christmax trees with mesh for agni in 2010? or for 2011?
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: 2k11
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: Kurt knows some things about it - he doesn't think that gaikai restricts by IP, but they'll only accept clients who are located close (by ping time?) to their datacenters
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: and they probably just don't have a datacenter near your area, yet
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: can't get on it either
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: FWIW
* [15:58] Gooden Uggla: how about having another bite at the apple on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5959 ?
* [15:58] JIRA-helper: Status: 500
* [15:59] Cale Flanagan: gaikai also accepted me, in germany...
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: Actually Gooden, Andrew might work on that in the coming weeks...
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: it's probably a quick fix
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: excellent, it's driving a lotta group owners crazy
* [15:59] SHAMUS Carter: SVC-5959 is very anoying
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: can you assign it to him if he is maestro?
* [16:00] Maestro Linden: Um, I'll ask him to assign it himself if he has time to work on it soon.
* [16:00] SHAMUS Carter: almost as anoyign as the deprication of the im's when a persion recives what you send
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: ok
* [16:00] Gooden Uggla: let me put it this way, ad 10 residents to the beta group perm tag for sending notices, then watch your email as they send important notices
* [16:00] Gooden Uggla: and wonder who the hell is sending what
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: it's like a game
* [16:01] SHAMUS Carter: why was the receive notice removed?
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: gooden loves games
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: it wasn't intentional
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: yup, this one sucks tho, the BCS picks the champ
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: well it looks like we are past the hour
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: good meeting everyone!
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming
* [16:02] Lares Carter: thanks for your time :)
* [16:02] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, do you want to refresh my inventory--or should I just give you that new jira helper on the main grid?
* [16:02] Cale Flanagan: ok, then i can leave bunnicidy watch:)
* [16:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
* [16:02] ac14 Hutson: see ya later.
* [16:02] Gooden Uggla: shamus is was accidental, and then got swept under the rug during JIRA migration and regime change
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: you can drop it on me jonathan
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks
* [16:02] Jonathan Yap: ok, I will switch grids and do that.
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend everyoen!