Open Source Meeting/2008-01-17

Open Source Meeting for Thursday, January 17, 2008
== Agenda ==
No agenda was posted, so we used it as an opportunity to get through some issues in jira marked "source code".
== Transcript ==
* [14:01] Octree Clip: greetings
* [14:01] Rob Linden: hi folks
* [14:01] Liana Linden: dragons welcome
* [14:01] Disconnected from: in-world Voice Chat
* [14:01] Octree Clip: lol, what's normal, Kiwi?
* [14:02] Octree Clip: hello Rob
* [14:02] Harleen Gretzky: HI Rob
* [14:02] Kiwi Alfa: Octree: Normal *sized*. ;)
* [14:02] Squirrel Wood: very empty agenda today
* [14:02] Kiwi Alfa: How are you guys? :D
* [14:02] Rob Linden: Squirrel: indeed
* [14:03] Kiwi Alfa: Yeah, I noticed that. I didn't want to add anything as I figured it was so short notice as to be next week, and besides, this is my first meeting, wouldn't want to impost.
* [14:03] Kiwi Alfa: ^impose
* [14:03] Rob Linden: picking back through the last week on sldev....
* [14:04] Rob Linden: what are people's thoughts regarding the "Movie to Disk" feature vs using an external app?
* [14:05] Squirrel Wood: <= not on sldev due to being on too many other mailing lists... but yes. movie to disk would be nice
* [14:05] Kiwi Alfa: For those who haven't been watching sldev today, I do machinima myself. Right now I'm on the Linux client, but when I do machinima I use Fraps and the Windows version.
* [14:05] Rob Linden: I've gotten the strong sense from many here at Linden Lab that it's an example of something we don't do very well, and should probably remove rather than support poorly
* [14:06] Kiwi Alfa: Well, it's certainly possible to use the Movie To Disk option. But it's not a terribly nice thing.
* [14:06] Harleen Gretzky: Torley is probably your best source for that too
* [14:06] Kiwi Alfa: IIRC, it doesn't record sound, I think.
* [14:06] Rob Linden: I don't yet hear an "oh my god, you can't possibly be thinking of removing it!"
* [14:07] Kiwi Alfa: Not that that's a problem in most machinima as you'd put your own sound in anyway, but still.
* [14:07] Soft Linden: I'd be curious to poll the machinima people to see if the built-in feature is even what they're using.
* [14:07] Kiwi Alfa: Well, I'm a machinimatographer, and personally I wouldn't miss it.
* [14:07] Squirrel Wood: when you run SL at high resolutions (1680x1050 in my case) then movie to disk isn't all that useful
* [14:07] Soft Linden: Do they have a forum or mailing list they frequent?
* [14:07] Squirrel Wood: the amount of data is just... too much
* [14:08] Kiwi Alfa: Soft: Check out the group "Machinimatographers".
* [14:08] Kiwi Alfa: That's probably the main SL group for them.
* [14:08] Kiwi Alfa: I'm a member myself.
* [14:08] Soft Linden: Thanks! Made a note, will fire off an inquiry.
* [14:09] Kiwi Alfa: Alternatively, if you want, I can run a quick poll right now. Don't worry, I wouldn't phrase it as anything "official", since rumours could get started. Just as a normal question.
* [14:10] Kiwi Alfa: But if it's better to come from a Linden, that's fine by me.
* [14:11] Kiwi Alfa: Let me know if you'd want me to do so.
* [14:12] Soft Linden: Ack, was getting pulled aside in the background.
* [14:12] Soft Linden: Sure, if you want to run a poll, then pass that back to the list or JIRA, that'd be great
* [14:13] Kiwi Alfa: Sure thing. I haven't been using JIRA a lot - what issue would it go under?
* [14:13] Rob Linden: cool...looks like a good next step for that issue. Kiwi, I'd file it as a feature request in the VWR project
* [14:13] Kiwi Alfa: (tbh, today's my first day actually participating in sldev in a major way, though I've been subscribed since the beginning and a keen interest.
* [14:13] Kiwi Alfa: Okay.
* [14:14] Rob Linden: moving on, it might be useful to take a look at the issues marked "source code" in jira
* [14:14] Rob Linden: 
* [14:15] Squirrel Wood: wonders if there is any progress regarding MISC-632 (Let resis edit Prim properties like Hovertext, particles, Status, etc in the edit window.) ?
* [14:15] Rob Linden: (perhaps skipping the issues that already have ll issue ids)
* [14:16] Soft Linden: Kiwi - A new JIRA in VWR, as Rob says, proposing removing the feature and linking to the poll results would be great.
* [14:16] Kiwi Alfa: Okay.
* [14:16] Soft Linden: Squirrel - if there's no internal JIRA on it, you can generally assume not.
* [14:16] Soft Linden: It looks like it's got enough votes that it could go through the next triage though
* [14:17] Kiwi Alfa: Oh, meep. I forgot that groups with loads of people have delayed chat, heh. Well, we'll see how it goes.
* [14:17] Rob Linden: 
* [14:18] Rob Linden: i'm assuming we can close this one as "resolved/won't finish". it's not something we can really implement
* [14:18] Squirrel Wood: Ye
* [14:18] Soft Linden: Yeah. There's nothing you can do to validate the MAC, CPU serial and drive serial remotely, or to check for invented ones. AFAIK those are what are used.
* [14:18] Squirrel Wood: btw Rob, excellent work on speeding up Jira ^^
* [14:19] Squirrel Wood: pages now load in less than ten seconds for me..
* [14:19] Carjay McGinnis: yes, quite fast here, too
* [14:19] Soft Linden: Stepping back - are we really agendaless today?
* [14:19] Squirrel Wood: Aye
* [14:20] Rob Linden: yeah, I'm doing an impromptu "source code" triage as a substitute, if that's ok
* [14:20] Rob Linden: 
* [14:20] Soft Linden: This is already resolved
* [14:21] Poppy Linden: this is fixed?
* [14:21] Poppy Linden: i thought that went out
* [14:21] Poppy Linden: jinx
* [14:21] Rob Linden: was thsi a duplicate issue, or one that just got fixed without being tracked?
* [14:21] Kiwi Alfa: If there aren't any other issues and if it's kosher for me to do this, given that it's my first meetup, then I'd be interested in discussing an idea I posted to sldev today - about machinima. :) But if it's not right for me to do so then that's fine.
* [14:21] Kiwi Alfa: (But I won't interrupt.)
* [14:22] Kiwi Alfa: (I can leave it for another time and continue the discussion on the list easily enough.)
* [14:22] Soft Linden: Kiwi - in general we try to let issues stew a little while in sldev before they go to the discussion as sort of a recap and wrap up. Might be good for next week!
* [14:22] Kiwi Alfa: Okay, that's fair enough.
* [14:23] Rob Linden: marked VWR-2620 as fixed
* [14:23] Kiwi Alfa: I didn't know the way this was done so I should probably have kept quite anyway. ;)
* [14:23] Carjay McGinnis: I see it already generated a lot of replies, didn't get to read them yet, though
* [14:23] Soft Linden: Otherwise, you sometimes get people all brainstorming in real time, which is fun! But usually not too much direction shakes out of it. And no - nothin' wrong with asking. :)
* [14:23] Squirrel Wood: Issues, just like cheese, must ripen. Once they assume the stench of unwashed socks they are good for picking ;)
* [14:23] Rob Linden: 
* [14:23] Rob Linden: oh, fix pending, nm
* [14:23] Rob Linden: 
* [14:23] Rob Linden: this one looks miscategorized....
* [14:23] Squirrel Wood: Aye
* [14:23] Soft Linden: This is probably even shipped.
* [14:24] Carjay McGinnis: hm, pity Michelle2 isn't here tonight
* [14:24] Squirrel Wood: havok 4 is one such better tool ^^
* [14:24] Soft Linden: Or at least in the full 1.18.6 RC series
* [14:24] Squirrel Wood: griefer objects are usually cleaned up in less time than the average TV ad runs
* [14:25] Squirrel Wood: btw.. its got all the wrong components too
* [14:25] Squirrel Wood: 3295 that is
* [14:26] Rob Linden: moving on: 
* [14:26] Squirrel Wood: subtask
* [14:27] Rob Linden: subtask to a metaissue.....I guess we can skip unless there's somethign specific to add
* [14:27] Soft Linden: It's basically "optimize rendering code." Way too vague.
* [14:27] Soft Linden: i.e. all of windlight would be a subtask of this subtask.
* [14:27] Carjay McGinnis: "make it perfect"
* [14:27] Squirrel Wood: redo it from scratch ^^
* [14:28] Rob Linden: commented. I won't close just yet
* [14:28] Rob Linden: moving on...
* [14:28] Rob Linden: fyi, latecomers, here's the list I'm stepping through: 
* [14:28] Q Linden: thanks!...just wondering
* [14:28] Rob Linden: 
* [14:29] Squirrel Wood: patch attached
* [14:29] Squirrel Wood: also imported ?
* [14:29] Rob Linden: I actually just fixed this one
* [14:29] Carjay McGinnis: thought it was something about distribution rights for the headers?
* [14:29] Rob Linden: the very latest push to windlight svn fixes this
* [14:29] Thraxis Epsilon: So compile with express 2008 should get past this file now?
* [14:30] Rob Linden: yeah, turns out we were kosher, but Runitai took the added step of paring down the deps to one header, and I published the one header
* [14:30] Soft Linden: Fix pending then?
* [14:31] Rob Linden: yeah, probably best to mark it that way
* [14:31] Soft Linden: I'll mark it and find what branch in the background here
* [14:31] Rob Linden: it is fixed in public svn
* [14:31] Rob Linden: windlight13 branch
* [14:31] Rob Linden: checked in a coupel of days ago
* [14:32] Soft Linden: thumbsup!
* [14:32] Rob Linden: I'll mark it after this meeting
* [14:32] sculpt test: Bl br rda
* [14:32] Thraxis Epsilon: I can check my build environment and download the svn later to verify also
* [14:32] Rob Linden: next up: 
* [14:33] Rob Linden: hmmm....pastebin expired
* [14:33] Thraxis Epsilon: Hmm.. NM I was looking at this issue...
* [14:33] Carjay McGinnis: was a problem related to the glh_convenience.h header, did you fix that, too?
* [14:33] Thraxis Epsilon: 3455 only occurs with 2008 Express
* [14:33] Poppy Linden: can't repro?
* [14:34] Poppy Linden: with caveat to reopen with new pastebin if it happens again?
* [14:34] Soft Linden: I fetched the pastebin doc out of Google's cache, will tack it on 3455
* [14:35] Soft Linden: Ah, resolved anyway
* [14:36] Rob Linden: mark 3455 as resolved?
* [14:36] Rob Linden: Carjay: 3721 looks different
* [14:38] Carjay McGinnis: ok, I thought you include glh_convenience.h now
* [14:38] sculpt test: Bl br rda
* [14:39] Thraxis Epsilon: Rob - Mark 3455 as needs more info.... I'll try a new compile with Express 2008 and see if it is still a problem
* [14:39] Rob Linden: k....I guess let's skip to 3721 since we've already started talking about it
* [14:39] Rob Linden: 
* [14:40] Rob Linden: I guess it wouldn't hurt to see if 3721 is fixed in the latest code, but I can't say that I looked at that problem specifically
* [14:41] sculpt test: Bl br rda
* [14:41] Carjay McGinnis: it's probably Linux specific, I will see if it still breaks and add a comment if necessary
* [14:42] Rob Linden: thanks Carjay
* [14:42] Rob Linden: 
* [14:42] sculpt test: Bl br rda
* [14:42] Rob Linden: looks like another pastebin special
* [14:43] Rob Linden: resolving as "need more info"
* [14:44] Rob Linden: skipping down to 
* [14:45] Rob Linden: (which has been imported, but wouldn't hurt to discuss)
* [14:45] Carjay McGinnis: hm, I build on amd64 but haven't tried that one yet
* [14:46] Rob Linden: any of the Lindens here feel up to upgrading OpenJPEG?
* [14:46] Poppy Linden: (could we make the internal refs into links on PJIRA?)
* [14:46] Poppy Linden: who has been poking at this?
* [14:46] Thraxis Epsilon: Looks like it was imported into the maintenance-4 brance in december
* [14:46] Rob Linden: Poppy: there's a greasemonkey script you should install
* [14:46] Q Linden: Poppy: greasemonkey?
* [14:46] Poppy Linden: :P
* [14:47] Poppy Linden: k fine, i'll reinstall it
* [14:47] Soft Linden: Rob, the internal should probably be assigned to triage. It's a simple fix, but someone needs to test the heck out of it, since that can potentially affect some server side systems too
* [14:47] Soft Linden: openjpeg is/was being used for generating map tiles, for example
* [14:49] Poppy Linden: soft, was it you or tofu on openjpg before?
* [14:49] Rob Linden: assigns internal issue to "triage"
* [14:50] Soft Linden: I think Tofu or Bos took one that was changing parameters to make us compatible with openjpeg going forward. We were filling one previously unused function parameter with a bad value.
* [14:50] Rob Linden: is super confused about any true utility of "*triage*" vs "unassigned"
* [14:51] Soft Linden: *triage* gets looked at by some of the studio heads each Monday internally. Unassigned waits for someone to stumble on it in a search or cleanup.
* [14:51] Rob Linden: anyhoo.....best to discuss that elsewhere
* [14:51] Poppy Linden: :P
* [14:51] Rob Linden: ok....next up:
* [14:51] Soft Linden: I don't know why it's triage with stars on it. Maybe it's said loudly.
* [14:52] Soft Linden: Oh, or sort position.
* [14:52] Rob Linden: 
* [14:52] Squirrel Wood: already imported?
* [14:53] Poppy Linden: hoo boy, thats an SL- issue, kinda old
* [14:53] Poppy Linden: any windlighters here?
* [14:54] Poppy Linden: looks around for brad...
* [14:54] Thraxis Epsilon: Almost a year old at that
* [14:54] Poppy Linden: anyone with a fresh windlight checkout that can validate this is still there?
* [14:55] Q Linden: I got brad here...I'll ask him now
* [14:55] Poppy Linden: hasn't checked out windlight since he dropped the macbook pro issues
* [14:55] Rob Linden: assigned the internal issue to triage
* [14:56] Rob Linden: moving on....
* [14:56] Kiwi Alfa: has only used the released versions so far - he hasn't yet actually compiled the code.
* [14:56] Kiwi Alfa: I plsn to though :D (obviously)
* [14:56] Rob Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-186
* [14:56] Poppy Linden: Kiwi, now's a pretty good time ;)
* [14:57] Kiwi Alfa: Now's 11pm GMT. :/ I'll need to do so tomorrow.
* [14:57] Poppy Linden: see, that's prime hacker time. :D
* [14:57] Kiwi Alfa: Besides which, I need time to see how to do it in both Windows and Linux - Linux is my main OS but my changes would probably be most useful in a Windows build.
* [14:57] Soft Linden: VWR-186 would have been good general maintenance stuff, but that patch is way crufty. I'd add a note asking any interested Linden to first ping the contributor about help in updating the patch.
* [14:58] Kiwi Alfa: I know! But I live with my parents. :(
* [14:58] Carjay McGinnis: well, midnight here *g*
* [14:58] Carjay McGinnis: best time for long compile sessions
* [14:58] Kiwi Alfa: Mmmmm.
* [14:58] Kiwi Alfa: Anyway, sorry, I derailed things a bit there.
* [14:58] Rob Linden: not at all kiwi
* [14:58] Rob Linden: thanks everyone for showing up
* [14:59] Rob Linden: I think this was useful for me....hope everyone felt this was a good use of time
* [14:59] Harleen Gretzky: tc Rob
* [14:59] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [14:59] Rob Linden: I think I like this as a default topic
* [14:59] Squirrel Wood: Was definitely useful!
* [14:59] Squirrel Wood: windlight... need someone to confirm - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4234
* [14:59] Kiwi Alfa: has never been to a bug triage before so it was useful to him, too.
* [15:00] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [15:00] Kiwi Alfa: If nobody else confirms, I'll do it tomorrow when I'm rebooted into Windows. I guess someone else will confirm before then though :D
* [15:01] Rob Linden: I'll let the windlight folks look at that as part of their normal process
* [15:01] Q Linden: VWR-104 -- code still exists, doesn't appear to be used, best left as part of triage
* [15:01] Carjay McGinnis: hm, never had that happen to me
* [15:01] Rob Linden: looks like a pretty specific repro, though
* [15:01] Rob Linden: anyway, I should run
* [15:01] Rob Linden: thanks all