Mesh/Archive/2011-09-26

==Agenda==
# How far is the progress to fully support collada 1.4.1 ? I only use the official v3, but my meshes exported from 3dsMax2012 make problems (uploader shows higher triangle-count than the model has, texures (different faces/material IDs) is not working. (Marielle Caerndow)
# I still can't upload my Collada file which have single texture. and CTS-813 is gone. I modifyed my node-ID but I can't upload it. I use viewer 3.0.6(241391) [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
# Is anything exciting happening? [Drongle]
# The rigged mesh is shown as a huge ball by 1.X viewer. Please make it small to the size of Avatar The issue is not viewer but SIM server. Otherwise, the landowner of Viewer1.X will BAN Avatar which wore the rigged mesh. [Yuzuru Jewell]
# SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Asha (asha)
*davep (davep)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Marielle Caerndow (marielle.caerndow)
*Mikki Miles (mikki.miles)
*Motor Loon (motor.loon)
*Nal (nal)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Skygirl Kline (skygirl.kline)
*Squirrel Wood (squirrel.wood)
*Techwolf Lupindo (techwolf.lupindo)
*Vincent Nacon (vincent.nacon)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru)
==Transcript for Wednesday September 28, 2011==
[12:00]	Squirrel Wood 	Hellol!
[12:00]	Prep Linden 	yoyo folks!
[12:00]	Motor Loon 	nice axe man
[12:00]	Squirrel Wood 	I hope you don't mind my little rock there attending today :)
[12:00]	Eleanora Newell 	hi, yuzuru
[12:01]	Yuzuru 	Thank you! Eleanora!
[12:01]	Eleanora Newell 	yw
[12:01]	Motor Loon 	You need some of my moms homecookin' Runitai... you're nothing but bones man
[12:01]	Yuzuru 	And Thank you Drongle!
[12:02]	Yuzuru 	I tried to teleport MeshHQ 2. But I couldn't..
[12:02]	Motor Loon 	well, I got coffee, coke, smokes and good mood... all set to rock'n'roll
[12:02]	Yuzuru 	Hello Runitai.
[12:02]	Yuzuru 	I still can't upload meshes..
[12:03]	Motor Loon 	This IS meshHQ 2 Yuzuru
[12:03]	Yuzuru 	Yes.
[12:03]	Yuzuru 	I wonder why I can't teleport.
[12:03]	Nal 	IS HQ 1 off line?
[12:04]	Motor Loon 	use the force luke...
[12:04]	Motor Loon 	Must be the hat
[12:04]	davep 	killing a couple sandboxes to get the meshhq regions back up
[12:04]	davep 	ran out of spares on DRTSIM-99
[12:04]	Nal 	Oh this is funny. first time I've used a non-mesh viewer in awhile. :)
[12:05]	Motor Loon 	aint pretty eh
[12:05]	Marielle Caerndow	Marielle Caerndow waves
''
[12:05]	Prep Linden 	Ok here we go:
[12:05]	Prep Linden 	How far is the progress to fully support collada 1.4.1 ? I only use the official v3, but my meshes exported from 3dsMax2012 make problems (uploader shows higher triangle-count than the model has, texures (different faces/material IDs) is not working. (Marielle Caerndow)
[12:06]	Prep Linden 	Collada 1.4.1 support has been added. If you want to test the latest mesh-dev has collada 1.4.1 support.
[12:06]	Vincent Nacon 	what... no news?
[12:06]	Motor Loon 	My Collada 1.4.1. works just fine
[12:06]	Marielle Caerndow	Thank you Prep, just had issues with the 'official' v3...will test it
[12:06]	Prep Linden 	Yeah - most people aren't having trouble *execpt* wrt to the latest version of blender and rigs.
[12:07]	Prep Linden 	mariella: if you find any issues please filea jira ;-)
[12:07]	Marielle Caerndow	Ah: "Rigs"...how are they currently working: does the *.dae need the full set of bones in it ?
[12:07]	Marielle Caerndow	Yes, I'll nag you if I find issues :-)
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood 	I wonder if http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=5748 would work in SL ...
[12:08]	Prep Linden 	squirrel: buy it and let us know!
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood 	I might actually do that
[12:08]	Motor Loon 	its doubtful
[12:08]	Squirrel Wood 	but it seems to use displacement maps
[12:09]	Motor Loon 	yeah, and probably insane high polycount
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	no it won't work
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	it got fur
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	and I don't mean the tail
[12:09]	Squirrel Wood 	polycount is not an issue :)
[12:09]	Motor Loon 	polycount is always an issue
[12:09]	Vincent Nacon 	and it's not polygons
[12:09]	Prep Linden 	ok moving onto #2.
[12:09]	Prep Linden 	I still can't upload my Collada file which have single texture. and CTS-813 is gone. I modifyed my node-ID but I can't upload it. I use viewer 3.0.6(241391) [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:11]	Yuzuru 	When I selected medium LOD, upload button was unenabled.
[12:11]	Prep Linden 	Yuzuru: The original reason it got disabled was because the lod introduced a new material that was not in the reference model.
[12:12]	Prep Linden 	The SL log probably had a error/warning in it denoting the problem.
[12:12]	Yuzuru 	I use same material.
[12:12]	Yuzuru 	I have no error/warning.
[12:13]	Yuzuru 	Ship it was checked.
[12:13]	Prep Linden 	Hmm... is it the same asset as the one thats attached to the jira?
[12:13]	Yuzuru 	yes CTS-183
[12:13]	Yuzuru 	But I can't access it.
[12:14]	Prep Linden 	sh-2468
[12:14]	Yuzuru 	Yes But I can't accsess SH-2468.
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	As usual :-)
[12:15]	Motor Loon 	Ditto
[12:15]	Prep Linden 	yuzuru: hold on - reproing it and gonna give you the error..
[12:16]	Yuzuru 	Thank you. I will update my tools from it.
[12:16]	Prep Linden 	yuzuru: I'm still getting a "Material of model is not a subset of reference." from the helmet assets.
[12:16]	Prep Linden 	So probably the name is different in the medium lod.
[12:16]	Yuzuru 	Oh!
[12:16]	Yuzuru 	Yes
[12:17]	Prep Linden 	cool, moving on..
[12:17]	Drongle McMahon 	Thae material name? I thought that didn't matter.
[12:17]	Yuzuru 	When I check it, I can update it.
[12:17]	Yuzuru 	Thank you.
[12:17]	Prep Linden 	#3. Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
[12:17]	davep 	3. Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
[12:17]	davep 	autoreturn is off?
[12:17]	davep 	that explains a lot
[12:17]	davep 	davep will get on that this afternoon.
''
[12:17]	Drongle McMahon 	:-)
[12:18]	Motor Loon 	haha
[12:18]	Vincent Nacon 	Vincent Nacon shakes his head.
''
[12:18]	Asha 	\o/
[12:18]	Prep Linden 	#4.) Is anything exciting happening? [Drongle]
[12:18]	Motor Loon 	good one
[12:18]	davep 	SH-2240 is kinda exciting
[12:18]	Motor Loon 	"As OpenGL, I want applications to not use the fixed function, because it is deprecated."
[12:18]	Squirrel Wood 	exciting? How about sims not finishing the calculation of a high detail physics shape ?
[12:18]	Mikki Miles 	yeah, and autoreturn will be switched on
[12:18]	Asha 	What is 2240 about?
[12:19]	davep 	in that comptability-with-new-spec-version kind of excitement
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood 	2240.. opengl 3.0 :)
[12:19]	Motor Loon 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/sh-2240
[12:19]	davep 	GL 3.2 actually
[12:19]	Skygirl Kline 	less crashy moments
[12:19]	Squirrel Wood 	or 3.2
[12:19]	davep 	now with vertex array objects!
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	Is 2240 wht I can't use the new project mesh viewers with nvidia 440?
[12:20]	Motor Loon 	I dont recall having seen such glitches
[12:20]	Motor Loon 	..on my system atleast
[12:20]	davep 	vao off -- 24 fps, vao on -- 30 fps
[12:21]	Squirrel Wood 	shadows on - out of memory :p
[12:21]	davep 	awww
[12:21]	Vincent Nacon 	upgrade your PC?
[12:22]	davep 	the memory stuff is pretty fresh -- I get that message even though I have 16GB of ram
[12:22]	Vincent Nacon 	n/m
[12:22]	Vincent Nacon 	muhahahaha!
[12:22]	Squirrel Wood 	Where should I upgrade? CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz (3337.54 MHz)
[12:22]	Motor Loon 	Probably too upgraded °?°
[12:23]	Squirrel Wood 	W7 x64 in general tends to see that error quite often
[12:23]	Motor Loon 	Too much bling makes you blind ... haha...
[12:23]	davep 	you can try turning off private memory pool management
[12:23]	davep 	"MemoryPrivatePoolEnabled"
[12:23]	Nal 	http://blog.nalates.net/2011/08/07/nvidia-driver-gtx-460-problems/
[12:24]	Motor Loon 	yeah... gfxcard related
[12:24]	Techwolf Lupindo 	Get a 54-bit build.
[12:24]	Nal 	You may being seeing a regression error.
[12:24]	Techwolf Lupindo 	erf...64
[12:24]	Squirrel Wood 	current available mem: 4GB, current usable: 0 is what the console says
[12:24]	Nal 	Firestorm suggests changing the GPU table in a viewer to an older copy to avoid some GPU problems.
[12:24]	davep 	I've gotten mixed reports on 2240 fixing GTX 460 issues
[12:26]	davep 	there's still one GL 2.x API call lingering that NVIDIA's drivers don't error on but AMD's do
[12:27]	Prep Linden 	ok moving onto 5
[12:27]	Prep Linden 	5.) The rigged mesh is shown as a huge ball by 1.X viewer. Please make it small to the size of Avatar The issue is not viewer but SIM server. Otherwise, the landowner of Viewer1.X will BAN Avatar which wore the rigged mesh. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:28]	Vir Linden 	That's not super likely to change, but if you want to file a JIRA at least we will have a mechanism for tracking.
[12:28]	Squirrel Wood 	I guess the prim drawn represents the size of the mesh
[12:28]	Vir Linden 	It's not part of the mesh release 2 work.
[12:28]	Motor Loon 	Cant fix stupid...
[12:28]	Yuzuru 	It is huge.
[12:29]	Yuzuru 	like 7m ball
[12:29]	Asha 	O.o
[12:29]	Vincent Nacon 	7m? not big enough
[12:29]	davep 	it uses the scale on the prim
[12:29]	Eleanora Newell 	yeah, i don't understand why some things show a sphere many times larger than the mesh size
[12:29]	davep 	so you can scale the rigged attachment down before you attach it
[12:30]	Asha 	Oh I see
[12:30]	Skygirl Kline 	fix = use the new viewer
[12:30]	Eleanora Newell 	ah
[12:30]	Asha 	Some people must have a big scale in their modeler.
[12:30]	Squirrel Wood 	V1 viewers will slowly stop working anyway :)
[12:30]	Motor Loon 	not really
[12:30]	Asha 	I don't think most people know that effects the size of the model on v1 viewers though.
[12:31]	Yuzuru 	Please set small scale to samle rigged mesh, robot.
[12:31]	Asha 	*affects
[12:31]	Yuzuru 	It is important.
[12:32]	davep 	how do we know you don't want a 7m sphere? the scale of the object is 7m
[12:33]	Yuzuru 	When I set 1m scale, It was shown 1m sphere on 1.X viewer. Is it correct?
[12:33]	davep 	that *should* be correct, if it's not correct, that's a bug
[12:34]	Yuzuru 	Thank you. I will try it.
[12:34]	Motor Loon 	There was someone here on a non-mesh viewer right? - could verify it now
[12:35]	Nal 	That is me... I'm in multiple conversations. What do want looked at?
[12:36]	Motor Loon 	anyone here looking like they are a 7m big sphere? ,-)
[12:36]	Motor Loon 	You're all mesh arent you Prep?
[12:36]	Nal 	No... Prep is the oddest and biggest, may be 2 m
[12:36]	Prep Linden 	yup - mesh
[12:37]	davep 	how about now?
[12:37]	Motor Loon 	well, he is kinda a short guy
[12:37]	Nal 	Squirrel has a couple of .5 m spheres
[12:37]	Motor Loon 	and Runitai?
[12:37]	Nal 	The arn or moving thing is much bigger, 3 m may be
[12:38]	Motor Loon 	that would be Runitai I guess... haha... the moving thing
[12:38]	Squirrel Wood 	What about the rock ?
[12:38]	Eleanora Newell 	she won't know it's a rock
[12:38]	Motor Loon 	the rock is not a rigged mesh
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon 	It's an axe. I am scared of it.
[12:38]	Nal 	I'm not sure ehat is supposed to be a rock
[12:38]	davep 	am I still 3m?
[12:39]	Eleanora Newell 	run, why you jumping?
[12:39]	Nal 	In FS mesh stuff doesn't always show in a photo so I can't upload one
[12:39]	Motor Loon 	so she can see him
[12:39]	Eleanora Newell 	lol
[12:39]	Motor Loon 	Nalates... the jumping thingie... still same size as before?
[12:40]	Motor Loon 	Motor Loon pokes Nalates
''
[12:40]	davep 	nal is a very busy person
[12:40]	Motor Loon 	Guess so °?°
[12:40]	Asha 	She's showing a pic.
[12:40]	Motor Loon 	Must be wierd being busy on the betagrid
[12:40]	Nal 	I think it disappeared.... looking for it
[12:41]	Motor Loon 	check the jumping Runitai Nalates...
[12:41]	Motor Loon 	same size as before?
[12:41]	Nal 	A tiny disk.... 0.3m
[12:41]	Motor Loon 	good
[12:41]	Motor Loon 	success then
[12:41]	davep 	hooray -- it works
[12:41]	Motor Loon 	problem solved ,-)
[12:42]	Yuzuru 	:D
[12:42]	Motor Loon 	How productive °?°
[12:42]	Nal 	:) I guess my SLV3 crashed for a reason...
[12:42]	Asha 	Good information to know about the sizing.
[12:42]	Motor Loon 	Motor Loon think Runitai needs to rest his old bones after all that jumping around
''
[12:43]	Yuzuru 	Please write about it to wiki!
[12:43]	Asha 	Agreed
[12:43]	davep 	viewer 3 is having some weird issues right now -- certification problems with SSL, some multi-threading issues with thread local state not being initialized properly, and of course the GL compatibility issues
[12:43]	davep 	after the long haul for mesh, it's time for a nice quiet maintenance cycle
[12:44]	Motor Loon 	No rest for the wicked
[12:44]	davep 	no joke
[12:44]	Vincent Nacon 	and during those moment, residents should be ready to provide the next big feature, Avatar 2.0! :P
[12:44]	Eleanora Newell 	no rest at all? damn
[12:44]	davep 	https://bitbucket.org/davep/shining-fixes
[12:44]	davep 	davep is tired.
''
[12:44]	Motor Loon 	Rest is overrated anyway
[12:44]	Yuzuru 	The scale shoulde be written on marketplace..
[12:45]	Eleanora Newell 	wouldn't know since i haven't had any in years
[12:45]	Motor Loon 	I'd be happy if creators could just learn to put the real primcount on marketplace
[12:45]	Asha 	No kidding
[12:45]	Motor Loon 	Shameful how many meshs are sold with incorrect informations
[12:45]	Vincent Nacon 	still need people to talk about it on the wiki before making it as final for LL to look at. advert your eyes, Lindens! https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_2.0
[12:46]	davep 	yeah, I find myself wanting an LoD preview
[12:46]	davep 	I bought a gun for L$1000 and the LoD was terrible
[12:46]	Nal 	Well, may be the SLM team will include a place for prims, scripts, and Land IMpact cost for merchandise. That would get creators thinking.
[12:46]	Asha 	Showing LODS would be a nice addition.
[12:46]	Yuzuru 	where is the binary of the viewer shining fixed.
[12:46]	Motor Loon 	That too Runitai
[12:46]	Eleanora Newell 	actually, that would be great, runitai
[12:47]	davep 	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/davep_shining-fixes/latest.html
[12:47]	davep 	probably easier to implement a "return for refund" feature
[12:47]	Yuzuru 	Thank you!
[12:47]	davep 	davep is just spitballing here.
''
[12:47]	Motor Loon 	°?°
[12:47]	Motor Loon 	Better education for creators is the key
[12:48]	Motor Loon 	I think most just dont know any better
[12:48]	Vincent Nacon 	or just waiting for Phoenix (1.23) to catch up
[12:50]	Yuzuru 	It is important to add elements about LOD and Land Impact and scale.
[12:50]	Vincent Nacon 	or just remove scale factor >_> *hint*
[12:51]	Yuzuru 	But customer can't check its scale.
[12:51]	Motor Loon 	only a problem if its a no-mod item
[12:52]	Motor Loon 	and only a problem viewer on old viewers
[12:52]	Yuzuru 	Yes
[12:52]	Motor Loon 	viewed
[12:52]	Motor Loon 	in time it will "fix" itself...
[12:52]	Motor Loon 	hopefully
[12:52]	Vincent Nacon 	by removing it
[12:52]	Vincent Nacon 	:P
[12:53]	Motor Loon 	non-mesh viewers should be gone with not too long
[12:53]	Vincent Nacon 	actually, it's the only way for contents with scripts.
[12:53]	Nal 	The SSE2 requirement is stopping old computer users from upgrading... :/
[12:53]	Squirrel Wood 	there are quite a few people that will hold on to v1 viewers for as long as possible because they do not want the v2 UI
[12:53]	Yuzuru 	If the light weight viewer will be released..
[12:53]	Motor Loon 	thats ok too, aslong as it has mesh backporting
[12:54]	Vincent Nacon 	stopping from upgrading?
[12:54]	Motor Loon 	Phoenix will soon too
[12:54]	Techwolf Lupindo 	Techwolf Lupindo lol at this changeset https://bitbucket.org/davep/shining-fixes/changeset/7dd3fe1dc666
''
[12:54]	Squirrel Wood 	SSE2 was introduced around the year 2k. no reason to still have such stoneaged computers around
[12:54]	davep 	SL is global, so there ARE some markets that still have a lot of old computers
[12:54]	Vincent Nacon 	those who don't have SSE2 are seriously out of date
[12:55]	Vincent Nacon 	it doesn't need another 10 more years
[12:55]	Yuzuru 	But SSE2 is not useful on 64bit.
[12:55]	Nal 	Agreed Squirrel, but there are people not upgrading computers... I hate to leave them behind, BUT I see no other choice.
[12:55]	davep 	but it's just not practical to impede performance on the vast majority because of hardware that is way past its warranty
[12:55]	Vincent Nacon 	once again, it doesn't need 10 more years
[12:55]	Eleanora Newell 	i have to leave, but ty, prep and runitai, see everyone later :)
[12:55]	Asha 	Bye Eleanora.
[12:55]	Vir Linden 	We try to be very conservative about increasing system requirements, but can't postpone changes forever.
[12:55]	Vincent Nacon 	Vincent Nacon waves
''
[12:55]	Skygirl Kline 	bye
[12:55]	Eleanora Newell 	bye, asha
[12:56]	Eleanora Newell 	*waves*
[12:56]	Motor Loon 	Nor should you Vir
[12:56]	Techwolf Lupindo 	Make it optional. There is no need for hardcoded flags in the code. Let the build envoroment set the flags.
[12:56]	Yuzuru 	suere
[12:56]	Yuzuru 	sure
[12:57]	Vincent Nacon 	Tech, it isn't that simple to make it optional
[12:58]	Techwolf Lupindo 	Software that supports sse2 and beyound use .dll to enable it. I"ve seen several packages where it detects the CPU at runtime and enables or disables parts of the code.
[12:58]	davep 	techwolf: we'd have to ship two different versions of each viewer -- SSE enabled and not SSE enabled
[12:58]	Techwolf Lupindo 	mplayer is one of them.
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