Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.12.09

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2011.12.06	Next 2011.12.13
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	AnnMarie Otoole 	Arawn Spitteler
Ardy Lay 	Calcite Serendipity	Draconis Neurocam
Falcon Linden 	Fancy Detector 	FBS Dagger
Flip Idlemind 	Jonathan Yap 	Kadah Coba
Kallista Destiny	Kaluura Boa 	Kelly Linden
Latif Khalifa 	Leonel Iceghost 	Liisa Runo
Lunar Frequency 	Pauline Darkfury 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi
Selma Devin 	Simon Linden 	TankMaster Finesmith
Vincent Nacon 	Watersedge Landmann	
== Transcript ==
[16:02] Kallista Destiny: OK this one works
[16:02] Arawn Spitteler: Basic Degriefer, don't leave home without it.
[16:03] Kadah Coba: Still no table reset?
[16:03] Simon Linden: I took it away
[16:04] Andrew Linden: Redecorations
[16:04] Arawn Spitteler: Was it broken as created content?
[16:04] Simon Linden: It's actually more interesting if we build a space :)
[16:04] Latif Khalifa: many items got permanently damaged durign last weeks LeTigre breakage
[16:05] Simon Linden: Yes, it shows a bug that was recently introduced ... events aren't firing in the exact same sequence for newly rezzed objects
[16:05] Simon Linden: Depending on what they do in those events, it could break stuff
[16:05] Latif Khalifa: not exacly. events that should not be firing were firing, like timer()
[16:05] Pauline Darkfury: Isn't that fixed by this week's LT?
[16:06] Latif Khalifa: Pauline, yes. But the nature of the bug caused many items to get into permanently bad state
[16:06] Pauline Darkfury: Right, yeah, people with no-mod stuff are screwed by it
[16:06] Latif Khalifa: so if your item is no mod, you can quietly sob in the corner
[16:06] Arawn Spitteler: Reset didn't repair?
[16:06] Kallista Destiny: How truly wonderful
[16:06] Pauline Darkfury: Can't reset no-mod
[16:07] Fancy Detector: Kelly Linden has arrived!
[16:07] Simon Linden: No mod / no copy stuff is really scary how it can get busted like that
[16:07] Kallista Destiny: How about rerezzing?
[16:07] Pauline Darkfury: That's the #1 reason to never buy scripted no-mod if you can help it
[16:07] Pauline Darkfury: re-rez doesn't reset scripts
[16:07] Simon Linden: I'll try re-rezzing the table later, or maybe go furniture shopping
[16:07] Kallista Destiny: Unless the script does
[16:07] Pauline Darkfury: I'd have thought god mode would allow you to reset it?
[16:07] Latif Khalifa: well the only thing that helped was if you had a copy that was never rezzed on Le'tigre during the last week outage
[16:07] Kadah Coba: No reset shouldn't apply to no-mod items that have crashed.
[16:08] Kallista Destiny: Simon, there is a nice on in the Myst-tool hud
[16:08] Vincent Nacon: it was long over due for style update, Simon
[16:08] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:08] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, if you had a pristine copy in inventory it would be ok
[16:08] Simon Linden: lol, I agree Vincent
[16:08] Watersedge Landmann: that's why I always have a script reset on rez, or a menu option to perform a reset
[16:08] TankMaster Finesmith: we need more mesh stuff anyway
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: yup
[16:09] Arawn Spitteler: Simon, you should try decorating with my multiporter, except it won't tp farther than 54 meters
[16:09] Simon Linden: ok, let's get things rolling ... we had a minor update to the main server channel on Tuesday morning
[16:10] Andrew Linden sits back and lets Simon give the news
[16:10] Simon Linden: THe RC channels got updated too ... "Magnum" has the same code as "LeTigre" and is likely to get to the main channel next week, assuming nothing hits the fan between now and then
[16:10] Andrew Linden: (rather than ask Simon in another channel "What's the news?")
[16:11] Crash Meeroo whispers: Simon Linden will you please pick me up and snuggle me?
[16:11] Simon Linden: haha, I was waving hands and blowing smoke since you were being quiet
[16:11] Simon Linden: The details are in http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2011-12-05/td-p/1270405
[16:11] TankMaster Finesmith: oh common simon, your meeroo wants to snuggle :P
[16:12] Simon Linden: That should have the bug that killed the table fixed
[16:13] Simon Linden: I'm not sure exactly what's going onto the RC channels next week, but things are winding down for the holidays
[16:13] Simon Linden: We'd like next week to be the last set of updates until January
[16:13] Jonathan Yap: I don't see a release notes link for LeTigre ?
[16:13] Simon Linden: That's it for news that I know of ... Andrew or Kelly, do you have any?
[16:13] Andrew Linden: I have at least one small item...
[16:14] Simon Linden: It's at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11
[16:14] Andrew Linden: I spoke to one of the LL devs who had worked on Linden Realms features
[16:15] Andrew Linden: and the topic came up about how cool it would be to release some of those features to LL residents sooner rather than later
[16:15] Kaluura Boa: Yes, yes, yes!
[16:15] Jonathan Yap: \o/
[16:15] Kallista Destiny: I noticed that SVC-5927 has made it to magnum, thank you.
[16:15] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927
[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued
[16:15] Andrew Linden: I didn't hear of an ETA, but we did talk about the grief potential of the fetures (as per our discussion here earlier)
[16:15] Kadah Coba: And?
[16:16] Andrew Linden: and it sounded like the group is definitely thinking about that and have a plan
[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: it would be nice to have those in any form
[16:16] Kadah Coba: Would love to know more about how they plan to restrict it when that much is known :o
[16:16] Pauline Darkfury: Please make sure they have all thought about trojan horse elements. E.g. innocent looking furniture with hidden griefer proxies
[16:17] Liisa Runo: i find it a lil bit strange that LL been developing features with grief potential without thinking about the possibilities, could it be that some day LL see that we cant have some of the features in any usefull state because of this
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: won't be the first time, Liisa
[16:17] Kadah Coba: >_>
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: nor last
[16:17] Simon Linden: Liisa - we added features to make Linden Realms a good experience, but could do it a lot faster if we could trust the content
[16:18] Kallista Destiny: Almost any feature has griefing potentials
[16:18] Simon Linden: You'd be amazed how much time we spend trying to grief-proof the world ...it's an amazing time sink
[16:18] Kadah Coba: Did Andrew just say that they were discussion the griefing potential? <_<
[16:18] Andrew Linden: The only other bit of news is that I'm working on the side to finally finish the 8-neighbor connection code, so that regions know about their corner neighbors
[16:18] Kallista Destiny: I'm sure it is.
[16:18] Liisa Runo: awesome
[16:19] Andrew Linden: there were some deployment issues with the way the code was finished and so I have to make some modifications to get it out
[16:19] Kallista Destiny: I presume that is in aid of encroachment returns?
[16:19] Kadah Coba: Can we do corner crossing now?
[16:19] Ardy Lay: Andrew, is that going to help with the object-entry issues?
[16:19] FBS Dagger: I did corner crossings during the flight testings
[16:19] FBS Dagger: i had no problems
[16:19] Andrew Linden: ultimately yets Kadah, in that it would allow return of encroachment across corners (when encroachment return is enabled)
[16:20] FBS Dagger: was it deployed then?
[16:20] Kallista Destiny: nods
[16:20] Simon Linden: I've worked on some of the object entry code too, which uses the data Andrew is talking about
[16:20] Andrew Linden: Ardy, it will only help in the corner-cases, literally
[16:20] FBS Dagger: I aactually wanted to ask about object entry coding
[16:20] Latif Khalifa: was return of enroaching objects ever enabiled on the mainland?
[16:21] Ardy Lay: Andrew, SEC-720
[16:21] Andrew Linden: Go ahead FBS.
[16:21] Pauline Darkfury: So, when it's all done, does this mean that we'll skip the intermediate region if we are doing a corner crossing close enough to the corner?
[16:21] Fancy Detector: Falcon Linden has arrived!
[16:21] Andrew Linden: Not yet Latif.
[16:21] FBS Dagger: it seems that the coding has recently closed an exploit we have been using to make super high prim vehicles
[16:21] Simon Linden: posJump?
[16:21] Andrew Linden: Yes Pauline, it would be possible to walk directly from one region to its corner neighbor, objects too.
[16:21] Kallista Destiny: Hi Falcon
[16:21] FBS Dagger: we have one here to demonstrate, up until about 6 weeks ago they crossed sims fine, but now they seem to unsit the driver
[16:21] Pauline Darkfury: SVC-7265 really needs some attention
[16:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7265
[#SVC-7265] PosJump breaks if object-entry is disabled
[16:22] Watersedge Landmann: no Simon, physical vehicles using 255 prims
[16:22] FBS Dagger: we make 255 prim vehicles
[16:22] Falcon Linden: hey folks
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: heya
[16:22] FBS Dagger: hello
[16:23] Andrew Linden: huh? 255 prim vehicles?
[16:23] Simon Linden: ok - is there a jira bug report for it?
[16:23] Kadah Coba: What is SEC-720?
[16:23] FBS Dagger: yup
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: with physic assignment
[16:23] Watersedge Landmann: when we tested, we were able to cross regions, now suddenly every vehicle unsits the pilot and throws them across the sim
[16:23] Kallista Destiny: Kadah it's sekrit whe could tell you but then we'd have to kill you.
[16:24] Kallista Destiny: and then commit suicide
[16:24] FBS Dagger: actually yes you tend to end up standing in a corner of the sim and today we have corner of the sim then logged off
[16:25] Andrew Linden: FBS, tell you what, I'll look at your example vehicle at the end of this hour.
[16:25] FBS Dagger: sure
[16:25] Simon Linden: So ... about posJump ... I looked into that bug
[16:25] Simon Linden: The fix, like the original 'mis-feature', is pretty ugly
[16:26] Falcon Linden: what do you need posjump for anymore?
[16:26] Falcon Linden: oh, right
[16:26] Falcon Linden: sorry, confused myself
[16:26] Falcon Linden: nvm
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:26] Simon Linden: I broke it with some cross-region parcel-entry fixes made a while back
[16:26] Pauline Darkfury: It's needed for TP beaming, large build rezzing, various things
[16:26] Kadah Coba: Give proper function that provides the same functionality without the mis-feature then?
[16:26] Falcon Linden isn't sure why we don't just allow objects to move anywhere within the same region
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: posjump = poswarp
[16:26] Pauline Darkfury: Should be vastly more efficient than warpPos
[16:26] Falcon Linden: I'm sure there's a region
[16:26] Falcon Linden: pauline: naah, actually we internally convert those multiple setpos calls into a single one with the real destination :P
[16:26] Simon Linden: Now, just theoretically speaking, how would a new LSL function sound?
[16:27] Pauline Darkfury: jump & warp are not the same thing, Vincent. Warp spams 100s of llSetPos operations, jump is just 2
[16:27] Simon Linden: integer llSetRegionPos(vector anywhere_in_the_region) ?
[16:27] Kadah Coba: Then what is the point in the limit then? lool
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: yes, without limit
[16:27] Kallista Destiny: Sounds yummy simon
[16:27] Falcon Linden: Kadah: it existed for a reason that either I don't know or no longer exists.
[16:27] Pauline Darkfury: An official llPosJump() would be super-wonderful-brilliant-fabulous-amazing-fantastic!
[16:27] Draconis Neurocam: yeah simon
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: long as it within in the same sim
[16:27] Liisa Runo: im fine with new function, one that totally ignores the stpes between and goes directly to destination
[16:28] Liisa Runo: steps*
[16:28] Simon Linden: FYI : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PosJump
[16:28] Kadah Coba: Lol, Falcon.
[16:28] Vincent Nacon: 256x256x4096m
[16:28] Kallista Destiny: exactly
[16:28] Kadah Coba: What Pauline said.
[16:28] Simon Linden: Yes, this would just move the root position of the object anywhere in the region ... probably wiht a limit of being above ground
[16:28] Simon Linden: No sleep delay
[16:28] Flip Idlemind: If you add a new function, also add a new llSLPPF flag
[16:28] Liisa Runo: and we need it to be for llSLPPFast, not separate function
[16:29] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, min Z of terrain is basically ok, or should be
[16:29] Kelly Linden: Why do you need it in llSLPPF?
[16:29] Kadah Coba: Just do an in-region and above ground check and its all good
[16:29] Andrew Linden: The 10m movement limit goes waaaaaaay back to the very beginning of LSL... we were worried about scripted objects being too powerful/fast to deal with
[16:29] Simon Linden: This would work only on root prims ... llSLPPF is really for prims in a linkset
[16:29] Pauline Darkfury: Probably best to make min Z something like terrain-1 or terrain-2, to allow builds to rez cleanly when touching terrain
[16:29] AnnMarie Otoole: 10m limit was proabably an attempt to avoid beginners losing prims all over the sim.
[16:29] Andrew Linden: so we hobbled them in various ways (the 10m limit and also the "script energy" stuff)
[16:29] Pauline Darkfury: And based on object coords, not bounding box, so the prim can be half-buried
[16:29] Leonel Iceghost: Simon, and probably you would have to create a flag for llSetPrimitiveParams()
[16:29] Liisa Runo: we need it everything to llSLPPF cause wewant stuff to happen in sync and we dont want to waste resources and time doing stuff weparately
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] Andrew Linden: that was before we had parcel prim limits, the Grey Goo Fence, and other throttles
[16:30] Kelly Linden: Ah, keeping the changes in sync.
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: wait... why new function instead of raising the limit on existing function of method?
[16:30] Pauline Darkfury: I'll settle for a throttled or delayed llPosJump(), as 99% of the legit use cases just need it to work cleanly. As long as the throttle allows the big build rezzers to work cleanly for people rezzing an entire region, and the delay isn't absurd
[16:31] Simon Linden: We could raise the limit on llSetPos(), but our experience is that even something like that is likely to break some other content
[16:31] Latif Khalifa: yeah, just add a new func :)
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: I dunno, I doubt it would break
[16:31] Falcon Linden: yeah, changing llSetPos would break content. No question
[16:31] Kadah Coba: LLPosJump() sounds good to me.
[16:31] Simon Linden: Some are probably doing a sequence of moves and it works OK with teh limit, but would change behavior without it
[16:31] Draconis Neurocam: getting rid of the 10 meter rez limit would be nice as well
[16:31] Kaluura Boa: No, no, no! No delay, no throttle or we'll keep on using the hacked posJump....
[16:31] Kallista Destiny: yes I'll bet tht lots of content was empirically designed
[16:31] Pauline Darkfury: Can't see why content should be relying on that limit, but don't see any downside on it being a new func
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: because every scripter still need to limit their integer/float in that limit
[16:32] Kadah Coba: And a new enum as well
[16:32] AnnMarie Otoole: Yes many objects could rely on the built in delay of multiple jumps. It would break some of my stuff.
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: I'd say... hell with it, go for it
[16:32] Simon Linden: The only delay we've discussed is that llSetRegionPos() _might_ just end the script execution for that frame, which would ensure it actually goes there
[16:32] Pauline Darkfury: And yeah, I'd prefer it with no throttle or delay, just sayng anything is better than nothing for that
[16:33] Simon Linden: Other delays or throttles are really a waste of time because you all will just work around them :)
[16:33] Liisa Runo: no limits, no delays, or we will waste resources going around the limits and delays
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: no point in keeping too many functions that are outdated because of new functions
[16:33] Draconis Neurocam: that sounds somewhat fair simon
[16:33] Pauline Darkfury: Yay for that point of view, Simon :)
[16:33] Kallista Destiny: That is a reasonable thing ending execution for the frame
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:33] Falcon Linden: simon: some things need throttles :)
[16:33] Kaluura Boa: If it's not an official replacement for the hack with all its bells and whistles, it just won't stick...
[16:33] Pauline Darkfury: Making it skip to next frame is just fine if that helps
[16:33] Falcon Linden: rezzing objects should be more throttled in better ways
[16:33] Falcon Linden: that can't just be worked around
[16:33] Simon Linden: ok, so I'm not making any hard promises here, but thanks for the great feedback :)
[16:34] Kelly Linden: throttles are okay because we do those in an effective way. Script sleeps just aren't effective.
[16:34] Falcon Linden: but at the same time we should figure out /why/ people need to do the thing we're throttling and provide a better method
[16:34] Flip Idlemind: Making it skip to next frame is "just fine"? ...How sure are you of this?
[16:34] Pauline Darkfury: I feel pretty sure of that assertion
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: btw, Falcon, I think I found another issue with KeyFramedMotion, unless I'm just beating a dead horse, stop me...
[16:35] Pauline Darkfury: A frame is 22.5ms if things are running smoothly. llPosJump is for big moves, not smooth anim stuff
[16:35] Falcon Linden: Vincent: I'm not available to work on bugs for it right now, but I'm happy to hear about it
[16:35] Kallista Destiny: Jumping something is going to cause burp in the physics and it appears.
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: it seem it doesn't always push avatar if they're in the way.
[16:35] Falcon Linden: no, it doesn't
[16:35] Falcon Linden: that's not a bug per se
[16:35] Falcon Linden: it's not a feature either
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: great... another dead horse
[16:35] Falcon Linden: more of a "we didn't address this and it's a limitation"
[16:35] Kallista Destiny: lol
[16:35] Falcon Linden: not necessarily a hard one to fix
[16:35] Falcon Linden: we /knowingly/ didn't address...I mean
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: right
[16:35] Liisa Runo: befiore placing any throttles to nonphys movement, i want LL to show me how much resources nonphys movement takes compared to phys movement that currently has no delays, im guessing that nonphys uses about 100 times less resources
[16:35] Ruth Meeroo whispers: Simon Linden will you please pick me up and snuggle me?
[16:35] Kelly Linden: more than 1 jump a frame isn't 'smooth' because it will do all the jumps during a single script time - there are no pauses to send any updates etc. You would only *see* the last jump made in the frame.
[16:36] Flip Idlemind: I currently use "hacked posjump" for all movement. Because it works for all movement, and I don't have to check every time if I'm moving more than 10m
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: you intentionally didn't want to push avatar as anti-grief measure?
[16:36] Falcon Linden: this happens with anything we release and there's no way around it. There's an infinite number of ways things can get used in LSL, so we can't hope to make perfect systems every time and still release anything at all
[16:36] Pauline Darkfury: Right, yeah, viewer updates are max 1 per server frame?
[16:36] Kallista Destiny: Yes
[16:36] Falcon Linden: Vincent: more like we knew that when avatars hang around under certain conditions they get deactivated in a way that keyframed object collisions will be ignored
[16:36] Falcon Linden: and we didn't feel it was necessary to change
[16:36] Kallista Destiny: well max of 45 FPS.
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[16:37] Falcon Linden: if there's a usecase that requires it, please submit it as a feature request
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: usecase for... not pushing avatar?
[16:37] Falcon Linden: Liisa: currently, the most efficient movement method is llSetKeyframedMotion
[16:37] Falcon Linden: assuming you want something to actually follow a path rather than just move
[16:38] Falcon Linden: Vincent: are you saying it /never/ pushes them? or...
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: 50/50
[16:38] Pauline Darkfury: One obvious test case for your new llPosJump(), Simon. A llUnSit() immediately after it needs to drop the AV in the target position (for TP beams)
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: sometimes it does.... sometimes it doesn't I was expecting it push anyway
[16:38] Falcon Linden: Vincent: See if you can figure out when it fails. Is it up/down motion? Is the character asleep?
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: no, up/down is fine, it's side ways
[16:38] Kallista Destiny: Pauline I donlt think that 1/45th of a second is going to make that much difference.
[16:39] Falcon Linden: vincent: and if you're standing on it, it should always work, right?
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: yeah standing is no problem.... I meant when you're just in the way
[16:39] Falcon Linden: because I tested moving platforms/carousels and they worked fine
[16:39] Falcon Linden: right. Not 100% sure about that, there are a few possible causes. I determined it wasn't important enough to worry about and fixing it could open a griefing possibility too
[16:40] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:40] Falcon Linden: random is good: people won't rely on it either way
[16:40] Falcon Linden: then later we can pick which one we like! haha
[16:40] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:40] Vincent Nacon: come think of it.... didn't test it much with vehicles
[16:40] Andrew Linden: A truly diabolical methodology
[16:41] Falcon Linden: hehe
[16:41] Falcon Linden: I still want to provide Havok vehicles
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: shhh I know I know
[16:41] Falcon Linden: maybe even for boats. (Add a ground plane, simulate them like motorcycles)
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: we'll get there
[16:41] Draconis Neurocam: that would be so nice
[16:41] Falcon Linden: your scripts wouldn't have to handle input
[16:42] Falcon Linden: just set up all the 100 or so parameters that define the vehicle :PO
[16:42] Kadah Coba: :D
[16:42] Andrew Linden: boats don't bank quite like motorcycles
[16:42] Vincent Nacon: we can talk about it when we're actually ready to do about it
[16:42] Falcon Linden: no, but they would if that made them cross regions 50x faster ;)
[16:42] Kadah Coba: Some sail boat do, Andrew
[16:43] Kadah Coba: Gee, replace llwind with havok wind and enable real sailing :V
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: I still need to create a wiki page for vehicle API where most of the vehicles creator/developers can come put their thoughts in it
[16:43] Calcite Serendipity: Any displacement boat will bank in a turn
[16:43] Falcon Linden: kadah: havok wind is a bit limited
[16:43] FBS Dagger: i agree vincent
[16:44] FBS Dagger: there needs to be a place for developers to comment
[16:44] TankMaster Finesmith: create havic storms!
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: I don't want any lindens have their own input about the vehicle without us
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: or even started without us
[16:44] FBS Dagger: Agreed
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:44] Kadah Coba: Falcon: But so is llwind :P
[16:44] Falcon Linden: hahaha, true
[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: Depends on the speed of the turn, hull type, center of gravity etc, whether it will notably bank in a turn, for RL boats
[16:45] Kadah Coba: Direction and strength, what more do you need :V
[16:45] Falcon Linden: the havok vehicle api in lsl would be purely parameters
[16:45] Andrew Linden: brrrrrrr...
[16:45] Falcon Linden: to the point that a UI could even be built to create a vehicle
[16:45] Falcon Linden: (sans sound effects and particles)
[16:45] TankMaster Finesmith: havoc snow... :D
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: yeah, we need more support in sounds
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: and particles*
[16:46] FBS Dagger: yup I second that
[16:46] Draconis Neurocam: sounds and particles most certainly
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: like make glow actually be render glow
[16:46] Falcon Linden: Someday I'd like to add full FMOD support
[16:46] Falcon Linden: so you could upload a sound bank and rules and we'd handle ther est
[16:46] Falcon Linden: the rest*
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: PlayLinkSound()
[16:46] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Linux would be a problem there though.
[16:46] Kadah Coba: And actually update it to a current fmod version too I hope
[16:46] Falcon Linden: More like: llBindCollisionSoundToBank( key bankID )
[16:46] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, would need to be a new version like FMOD Ex.
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: no ew...
[16:47] Falcon Linden: yup
[16:47] Falcon Linden: llBindVehicleSound( VEHICLE_ENGINE_SOUND, bankID )
[16:47] Falcon Linden: or some such
[16:47] Leonel Iceghost: Falcon, that would work for things other than vehicles?
[16:47] Selma Devin: hi
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: see what I mean? that's is why I need to make that wiki page because Falcon already thought about such function now
[16:47] Falcon Linden: leonel: yeah, would work for all kinds of stuff, but that's a pipe dream right now
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: :P
[16:48] Falcon Linden: Vincent: yes, in the past 5 seconds I thought of it.
[16:48] Selma Devin: eris
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:48] Falcon Linden: so you've already lost the battle
[16:48] Falcon Linden: mwahaha
[16:48] Kadah Coba: Update FMOD: "We'll get right on that."
[16:48] Falcon Linden: pretty much
[16:48] Calcite Serendipity: New FMOD will be ready for x-mas? :P
[16:48] Falcon Linden: x-mas 2040
[16:48] Falcon Linden: yes
[16:48] Kadah Coba: "Ready for xmax" in Valve Time.
[16:48] Falcon Linden: if I'm still at LL in December, 2040, you can come back and hassle me if we don't have proper fmod support
[16:48] Falcon Linden: :P
[16:49] Lunar Frequency: xmas 20xx
[16:49] Calcite Serendipity: The viewer does not make many fmod calls, so hopefully the new version is upwards compatible
[16:49] Pauline Darkfury: Does that mean you're comitting to fixing the 2038 bug? ;)
[16:49] Leonel Iceghost: I'll save this chat!
[16:49] Falcon Linden: the thinking is that the viewer would use fmod for all audio
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: yeah and allow upload FMOD files from FMOD Designer?
[16:49] Falcon Linden: that's what I mean by a sound bank
[16:50] Vincent Nacon foams...
[16:50] Falcon Linden: try not to foam, you'll likely choke on your saliva long before it gets implemented :)
[16:50] Falcon Linden: but hey, don't fret, it /is/ on my list
[16:50] Sahkolihaa Contepomi would love to see OpenAL ditched from the Linux viewer.
[16:50] Kadah Coba: Its a long list.
[16:50] Arawn Spitteler: Feasible Operations Analysis of Machine Systems.
[16:50] Falcon Linden: somewhere around number 10 of 20 (and bug fixes, maintainence, and other high priority things aren't on it at all!)
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: oh yeah... for non-related feature request.
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: [18:04] Les White: i wish SL had a setlinkHSL function
[16:51] Falcon Linden: (err, that came out wrong--they're not on it because they're more important than my list :P)
[16:51] Falcon Linden: setlinkHSL?
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: instead of SetColor
[16:51] Falcon Linden: oh
[16:51] Falcon Linden: heh
[16:51] Falcon Linden: why not just perform the HSL->RGB conversion yourself? :P
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: that's what he has done
[16:51] Calcite Serendipity: What is the historical reason for linux not using fmod?
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: and he still wish it
[16:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: PulseAudio support.
[16:52] Falcon Linden: calcite: it didn't used to be supported. it is now
[16:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: FMOD lacks it.
[16:52] Falcon Linden: what's pulseaudio?
[16:52] Latif Khalifa: linux audio driver
[16:52] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sound server that all major Linux distros use now.
[16:52] Falcon Linden: Vincent/Les: as for color features, I'd rather provide llSetColorKeyframes
[16:52] Selma Devin: nosound
[16:52] Falcon Linden: fmod claims to support linux
[16:52] Falcon Linden: I don't know much about it
[16:52] Pauline Darkfury: Before we run out of time, I want to mention SVC-7442 - still some regions having that or the related issue on a regular basis
[16:53] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7442
[#SVC-7442] Voice appearing to be estate-disabled in many regions
[16:53] Falcon Linden: I'm not linux dev
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: the what now?
[16:53] Falcon Linden: what what?
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: like transition between red to blue?
[16:53] Pauline Darkfury: SVC-7488 is the related one, if memory serves
[16:53] Selma Devin: what now?
[16:53] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7488
[#SVC-7488] Voice issues
[16:53] Falcon Linden: vincent: yep
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: meh, I've already wrote a code for that
[16:53] Leonel Iceghost: Falcon a transition between two textures would also be nice
[16:53] Falcon Linden: Vincent: I want the animation to be sent to the viewer as a keyframe list
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: but yes, that would be nice
[16:53] Falcon Linden: and simulated only on the viewer
[16:54] Falcon Linden: so the sim doesn't have to send updates about it
[16:54] Selma Devin: i'm an outsider,
[16:54] Selma Devin: i suppose i should leave
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Falcon Linden: whaddya know, a meeting has just found me, gotta go!
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: still not the same with HSL issue Les was having, he use color chart in a HUD to pick out the color, he was forced to use HSL for that
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: seeeya
[16:55] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Falcon, have a good weekend
[16:55] Arawn Spitteler: No problem with coming in, Selma
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: don't be late
[16:56] Arawn Spitteler: If you must be late, check in with me; I'm a god in that field.
[16:56] Pauline Darkfury: So, voice failing to init at region level on restarts, any comments?
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: you're god because you got horns in your ears?
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: oh wait... n/m
[16:56] Arawn Spitteler: That's another god, actually; she lives in Kansas
[16:57] Kallista Destiny: qnd in her forhead and at the location of the peienal eye
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: anywho, I would like to see that 255 prim vehicle with Andrew
[16:57] Simon Linden: I think some of the RC code going out next week was related to that, Pauline, but I'm not certain
[16:57] Kallista Destiny: Thaks for the interesting meeting... Rl calls
[16:57] Pauline Darkfury: Ok, just wanted to flag that it's still ongoing for some regions
[16:57] Andrew Linden: I was just asking on an internal channel
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: and causing a lot of frustration for an EM friend
[16:58] Andrew Linden: yes some voice problems are expected to be addressed in an RC next week
[16:58] Ardy Lay: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11 "Voice diagnostics updated to improve our ability to diagnose voice issues. "
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: ahh, cool, I'll flag that to my frustrated friend, thanks :)
[16:59] Andrew Linden: another LL dev says that it isn't just better diagnosis. They think they identified and fixed some problems.
[17:00] Ardy Lay: THat's even better.
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Andrew Linden: but it sounds like they were having trouble reproducing the problems and without the diagnostics they aren't 100% sure they've fixed everything
[17:00] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Andrew :)
[17:00] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the great discussion
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: thanks
[17:00] Andrew Linden: Ok. Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:00] Liisa Runo: thanks everyone
[17:01] TankMaster Finesmith: have a great weekend
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: now let's go see that 255 prim vehicle
[17:01] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Lindens, have a good weekend :)
[17:01] Simon Linden: Have a good weekend everyone :)
[17:01] Andrew Linden: FBS I can look at your vehicle now.
[17:01] FBS Dagger: sure where do you want it
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: oh here?
[17:01] Andrew Linden: Let's try to find a nearby border, yes.
[17:01] FBS Dagger: ok incomming
[17:01] FBS Dagger: sure
[17:02] FBS Dagger: good idea
[17:02] Pauline Darkfury: Oh yeah, Andrew
[17:02] Andrew Linden: hang on... I need to copy the transcript...
[17:02] Pauline Darkfury: You've got a nice snowlands parcel you should do something festive with! ;)
[17:02] Liisa Runo: yea
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Oh right. That little property in Wengen.
[17:02] Pauline Darkfury: Yup
[17:02] Andrew Linden: I'll keep that in mind.
[17:03] Pauline Darkfury: and lots of space you could annex if there's not enough on the current parcel ;)
[17:03] Liisa Runo: and ill keep visiting it
[17:03] Andrew Linden: I'm sure I've got some holday themed stuff in inventory somewhere.
[17:03] Liisa Runo: dont just drop stuff on it, invent something fun
[17:04] Andrew Linden: Thanks for the suggestion.
[17:04] Liisa Runo: or let us invent and choose the best ones, if your too busy to have fun your self
[17:04] Vincent Nacon: ahh nice Hook
[17:04] Pauline Darkfury: :)
Simulator_User_Group
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