Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.11.05

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2013.10.29	Next 2013.11.12
== List of Speakers ==
ac14 Hutson 	Adamburp Adamczyk 	Duckie Dickins
Jenna Felton 	Jonathan Yap 	Kelly Linden
Kennylex Luckless	Krisshall 	Lexbot Sinister
Lucia Nightfire 	Martinrj Fayray 	Mona Eberhardt
Nalates Urriah 	Nelson Jenkins 	Orchidmist
Petr Topaz 	pup Witherspoon 	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden 	Siwo
Talarus Luan 	Tankmaster Finesmith	Whirly Fizzle
Yuzuru Jewell 	 	
== Transcript ==
[11:59] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Simon.
[11:59] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Simon.
[11:59] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Nalates.
[11:59] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[11:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: heya simon
[11:59] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
[11:59] Nalates Urriah: Hi Yuzuru
[12:00] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:00] Simon Linden: Hi everyone
[12:00] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[12:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[12:00] Kennylex Luckless: Hia Simon
[12:00] Adamburp Adamczyk: yoohoo#
[12:00] Petr Topaz: Hello Simon
[12:00] ac14 Hutson: hello
[12:00] Jenna Felton: hello alll
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: good meeting ya all!
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: :P
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: soo you next week!
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: see*
[12:01] Rex Cronon: lets hope so tankmaster
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: hehe silly meeter
[12:01] Duckie Dickins: yup!
[12:01] Simon Linden: Let's get rolling .. Andrew and Baker won't be here today
[12:01] Kennylex Luckless: Noooooooooo, no Baker no cooool!
[12:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: shit#
[12:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: *CENSORED*
[12:01] Simon Linden: This morning we updated the main server channel with the RC version
[12:01] Simon Linden: Details are here:
[12:01] Simon Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-11-04/td-p/2304517
[12:02] Duckie Dickins: Andrew's Linden Bear will fill in for him this week. :)
[12:02] Kennylex Luckless: Weeee!
[12:02] Rex Cronon: did baker pulled a muscle?
[12:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: ill give baker's update: 'baker is still working ob group banz and will have something out in the future'
[12:02] Rex Cronon: i heard that can happen if u twerk too much;)
[12:02] Simon Linden: Baker did pass along a message ... "I'm making good progress with the server side group ban stuff"
[12:02] Mona Eberhardt: Hey Kelly.
[12:03] Petr Topaz: Hi Kelly
[12:03] Kelly Linden: hello
[12:04] Krisshall: sorry, broken attachment thing :/
[12:04] Simon Linden: That's about it for news or updates I know of, so the table is open for questions, ideas or whatever...
[12:04] Nelson Jenkins: I put something on the agenda about llLink*Sound
[12:04] Jonathan Yap: I have a question
[12:04] Jonathan Yap: Is there a reason to still limit the size of the source text of a script to 64K?
[12:05] Rex Cronon: hello kelly
[12:05] Simon Linden: oh yeah, there have been some jira feature requests about llLink-something with sounds. We've discussed it internally and it seems like a good idea, but needs some work to see if we can cover as much functionality as possible with a reasonable API
[12:05] Kelly Linden: not to 64k, You should be able to up the viewer limit (baring any issues with the UI widgets handling larger text buffers) up to at least 256k without much server side issues.
[12:06] Nelson Jenkins: okay, i just wanted to throw it out there to the server group, I brought it up yesterday in the content creation group and they shuffled me here
[12:06] Jonathan Yap: That 64k is hardcoded to the viewer then?
[12:06] Kelly Linden: 'hard coded' - I think it is in the xui xml files
[12:06] Jonathan Yap: Okay, thank you
[12:07] Qie Niangao: Experience Keys are in the news, being part of the roll to RC sims tomorrow... so, any hints of what to expect when it's really live?
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: nest year :P
[12:07] Rex Cronon: there r some people with so many scripts in their attachments that if they were to use 256k than all sim memory allocated for scripts would run out:)
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: theres a lot of no change windows coming soon with the various long holidays
[12:08] Qie Niangao: Yeah, but how will it work, whenevr it goes live?
[12:08] Mona Eberhardt: Oh yes, Rex. That's true.
[12:08] Jonathan Yap: Rex, the question was about the size of the source text
[12:08] Duckie Dickins: well if they're mono scripts then they would only use up the memory they require
[12:08] Kelly Linden: the script text size does not directly effect the memory used on the sim, only the compiled size.
[12:09] Jonathan Yap: not the size of the resultant compiled stuff
[12:09] Kelly Linden: the question was in regards to the text editor, not the script memory limit.
[12:09] Simon Linden: Qie - no, I'm clueless about that myself. The RC update is actually pretty minor and covers the back-end intrastructure
[12:09] Siwo: I'd like to know... why prims with bump and shine maps get such insane land impact?
[12:09] Qie Niangao: oh well. Had to ask. :) Thanks, Simon.
[12:09] Rex Cronon: u mean that using variable names of of size 1024 letters doesn't affect memory for script use?
[12:10] Qie Niangao: Siwo, try setting them convex hull physics type?
[12:10] Jonathan Yap: Rex, lsl is not interpreted
[12:10] Lexbot Sinister: Siwo - simple- they are counted in the new LI system then. Set them to convex hull and they will be 2 LI each max.
[12:11] Kelly Linden: rex: the biggest argument for larger text editing I've seen is for systems that "compile" to LSL and want to keep the "source" in comments in the text. And/or extremely verbosely commented LSL
[12:11] Siwo: I know... but it is still pretty interesting when you can use whole sandbox capacity with one prim
[12:11] Lexbot Sinister: yup... we have been pointing that out for at least 6 months already ;)
[12:12] Qie Niangao: Yup. :p
[12:12] Siwo: oh... okay :D
[12:12] ac14 Hutson: i HATE the firestorm preprocessor
[12:12] Tankmaster Finesmith: then dont use it :P
[12:12] Lexbot Sinister can make a spectacular torus.
[12:12] Whirly Fizzle: You can disable it o.O
[12:12] Rex Cronon: hmm
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: specular being the key word there
[12:12] Lexbot Sinister laughs
[12:12] ac14 Hutson: its other people woh use it. i dont need a copy of the script commented at the top of it
[12:13] ac14 Hutson: and trying to unwravel it is a mess.
[12:13] Duckie Dickins: preprocessor works quite well with very complex scripts especially when you use it for your function library.
[12:13] Nelson Jenkins: function library for Second Life is also called "copy & paste"
[12:14] Duckie Dickins: true but it's easier to edit a function once and then require all scripts that use that function than the nightmare of editing each script.
[12:14] ac14 Hutson: only reason i mentioned is because of what kelly said. about hte need for larger text editing.
[12:14] Duckie Dickins: oops...recompile all scripts
[12:15] Talarus Luan: Yeah, it would be nice, but it is pretty rare that I run into the editor limit before I run out of script memory anyway.
[12:15] Talarus Luan: and I am a very verbose commenter :P
[12:16] Lucia Nightfire: If anyone standing on the ceiling here right clicks an HUD and choose "Sit Here" do they see their image go halfway into the building instead of showing you sitting at your position? Also, turn off any sit AO you may be using.
[12:16] Tankmaster Finesmith: wy would there be an option to sit on a hud?
[12:16] Talarus Luan: I don't get a "Sit Here" option right-clicking on a HUD.. only "Sit Down"
[12:16] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I just sat as normal
[12:17] Krisshall: same here
[12:17] Krisshall: or only a sit down option
[12:17] Rex Cronon: i think its a AO tnakmaster
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: weird, now its working
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: I get sit here right clicking a HUD
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: will have to look into taht one
[12:17] Duckie Dickins: Hah..nice prim baker over there in the corner. :)
[12:17] Krisshall: pie menus or the usual sort?
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: Oh pie
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: also, sit option on HUD is a safety for hazardous environment
[12:18] Krisshall: <-- using the usual popup ones
[12:18] Talarus Luan: lulz.. hasn't been radial menus since 1.x :P
[12:18] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah its sit down on context menu
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: hazardous meaning people having perms followers covering everything and everyone
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: also, I love my pie menu, heh
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: and pie
[12:19] Tankmaster Finesmith: most TPVs have pie even on V3 based code
[12:19] Talarus Luan: I wouldn't know. :P
[12:19] Nelson Jenkins: lies, Catznip and Exodus don't have it
[12:19] Rex Cronon: so i can sit on my huds?
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: no Rex, you sit at your pos
[12:19] Tankmaster Finesmith: i said most, not all
[12:19] Simon Linden: go for it, Rex :P
[12:19] Nelson Jenkins: and I don't think Nirans has it, though can't confirm
[12:19] Rex Cronon: i am doing that
[12:19] ac14 Hutson: alt shift s is sit down. no clicking needed
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Nirans hsas pie
[12:19] Nelson Jenkins: so basically by "most TPVs" you meant "firestorm"
[12:20] Nelson Jenkins: lol
[12:20] Talarus Luan: The question came up again recently in scripter group chat... are we going to get Materials script functions any time soon?
[12:20] Nelson Jenkins: Nirans has the option for it but it's not the default
[12:20] Tankmaster Finesmith: kisrtian;s had it
[12:20] Orchidmist: I have a question when someone has a second. When I open my chat box, my FPS goes way down. Is there another way to read what you are all saying?
[12:20] Jenna Felton: its probably clicked-trough the hud and you selected sit on some object inworld?
[12:20] Krisshall: i think singularity had it, but can't remember now
[12:20] Jenna Felton: sitting on a hud is strange operation :)
[12:20] Qie Niangao: Orchid: yeah, change viewers. :p
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: Orchid, change to compact view. Its a bug with sharestorm viewers
[12:20] Tankmaster Finesmith: singuarity is V1 UI, so they have it
[12:20] ac14 Hutson: yeah it seems the newer veris have some bug where the chat window eats the fps REALLY BAD
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: Only happens when in expanded mode
[12:21] Orchidmist: I'm using 3.6.9 SL
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: Its nasty teah
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, that has the bug
[12:21] Qie Niangao: (right, compact view should fix it)
[12:21] Simon Linden: there are other modes too like the bubble chat
[12:21] pup Witherspoon: I have a couple questions when time allows.. since this is my first time here I'mnot sure of the protocol
[12:21] Orchidmist: ok will figure out compact view thank you all
[12:21] Simon Linden: we're pretty chaotic today, pup, so go ahead and ask
[12:21] Talarus Luan: Ask, and if you don't get a response, ask again. :P
[12:22] Talarus Luan: For example:
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: jump in whenever, you'll find a teet somewhere, heh
[12:22] Talarus Luan: The question came up again recently in scripter group chat... are we going to get Materials script functions any time soon?
[12:22] Whirly Fizzle: Compact view on CHUI -> http://i.imgur.com/hzhcmAy.png
[12:22] Simon Linden: soon? no
[12:22] Jenna Felton: BTW,a question about FPS. How to limit them in the Lindenviewer to at last 30FPS? When i come here using the stndard viewer, my FPS go to 80, and my hard drive goes crasy. I feel it would fly away off my pc
[12:22] ac14 Hutson: yeah i want ot know about that also
[12:22] Duckie Dickins: Poke kelly with a stick..you might get a maybe, Talarus.
[12:22] Mona Eberhardt: Is it going to be difficult to add LSL control of materials parameters, Simon?
[12:23] Jonathan Yap: fps should not have anything to do with your HD
[12:23] Nelson Jenkins: don't think FPS has any relation to your hard drive, yeah
[12:23] Tankmaster Finesmith: the limiting of FPS is not lnger supported int he LL viewer
[12:23] Talarus Luan: No, he kneejerks expecting me to ask about SCR-4 again. :P
[12:23] Simon Linden: Jenna - I have no idea why those would be connected
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: MaxFPS is broken on V3
[12:23] Siwo: more like cooling fan, not HDD imho :]
[12:23] Tankmaster Finesmith: but the FPS rate doesnt impact the HD use
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: oh yeah, we needs SCR-4
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: definately, heh
[12:23] Jonathan Yap: In windows you can monitor what exactly your HD is doing
[12:23] Rex Cronon: your viewer must be saveing locally all the data about the avatars her?
[12:23] pup Witherspoon: laughing.. ok first one is the memory leak re rezzing objects on sim and sim memory not being released - is there any estimate on a fix for that?
[12:24] Jenna Felton: hm. ok. i thought the graphic card needs then too many data and uses hard drive when rendering to many FPS
[12:24] Simon Linden: do you have your log window open? I wonder if somethings dumping a ton of data in there
[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: Use expanded view! That will limit your FPS nicely ;)
[12:24] Jenna Felton: i wil test it, thanks
[12:25] Qie Niangao: (I like Siwo's cooling fan theory, instead of harddrive)
[12:25] Simon Linden: lol Whirly :)
[12:25] Lexbot Sinister: Or do you mean your computer swaps a lot when you have high FPS? maybe the cache is too small then.. i dunno...
[12:25] Nelson Jenkins: my money is on all of the textures being downloaded to/pulled from cache after teleporting here
[12:26] Lexbot Sinister: My money is on Vram and swapping.
[12:26] Simon Linden: pup ... do you have a good way to reproduce that memory leak?
[12:26] Jenna Felton: money?
[12:26] ac14 Hutson: i dont think "use compact view" its a fix. just a workaround right now. i also saw a huge fps drop (from 30 to around 1) when the edit window was open though i have been unable to get it to drop that bad again yet. there is certnely some werid bug with the newer chui.
[12:27] pup Witherspoon: sure, its easily replicated, just go to a sim, restart it, then rez a bunch of stuff and watch the memory usage climb and climb till you get error messages about being unable to rez
[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: Theres a bug when you have edit open after youve had about land open on a region with a long covenant. That absolitely kills FPS
[12:27] Talarus Luan: I don't see Andrew today.. anyone know if he's had any luck looking at the llSetKeyframedMotion issue?
[12:28] pup Witherspoon: I'm assuming that someone dropped a bit of code to release the memory after the rez, but I don't know that for sure
[12:28] Orchidmist: bubble chat fixed it thank you Simon
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: theres an unbannable agent wearing multiple sim crashers that was testing memory rise in WT for over 16 hours straight this morning, heh
[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: Is it the memory allocated bug you're seeing? That seems to be caused by lots of terrain rebakes
[12:28] Rex Cronon: "testing" lol
[12:28] Lexbot Sinister: Thats what i call dedication lol
[12:28] Duckie Dickins: Andrew Bear says he'll get back to you next week. :)
[12:29] pup Witherspoon: actually that appears to be fixed Lagadelia.. we can see memory jump when you rebake but drop back down, this seems more tied to building/rezzing
[12:29] Simon Linden: so to finally answer your question pup, no there isn't an estimated time to fix that
[12:29] Krisshall: 16 hours is a record
[12:29] pup Witherspoon: ok thank you
[12:29] Martinrj Fayray: kelly you suggested some time last year to raise the limit of script sizes (it's in panel_script_ed.xml) to 1 million, would that be ok if we do that as a contribution together with Oz?
[12:30] Martinrj Fayray: (viewerside of course)
[12:30] Rex Cronon: must have been a bot
[12:30] Martinrj Fayray: 1mio bytes
[12:30] Tankmaster Finesmith: that was covered earlier, marton :P
[12:30] Martinrj Fayray: I know I just had a talk with Jonathan
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: its not a bot, Rex, he had several lookat types
[12:30] Simon Linden: has anyone checked the performance at that kind of script size?
[12:30] Martinrj Fayray: the only problem you have there is when you resize the script window
[12:31] Martinrj Fayray: but that's a general problem
[12:31] Martinrj Fayray: also in chat windows with alot of text
[12:31] Martinrj Fayray: *a lot
[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I thought that was fixed.
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: BTW, guys... What about the physics memory allocation bug that causes the "cannot create object that has caused problems in this region" error message?
[12:31] Martinrj Fayray: it was? even better then:)
[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: One of Nickys submissions...checking....
[12:31] pup Witherspoon: that's one of the messages you get if the sim memory is too high
[12:32] Simon Linden: Mona - that kicks in when something is really slow or large to rez, and in this case it sounds like it's hitting a memory limit
[12:32] Simon Linden: are you talking about full regions?
[12:33] Simon Linden: I know the homesteads have lower limits and seem to get in trouble more
[12:33] pup Witherspoon: we see it on both full and homestead regions.. generally happens when someone new moves in and rezzes a bunch of stuff.. a reboot cures it because it releases the sim memory
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: I have a homestead, Simon.
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: Martin, its fixed....
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: New Changeset:
http://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-chui/changeset/fc0090ae8ee0
BUG-3605 / CHUIBUG-197 Don't create excessive amounts of string objects in LLNormalTextSegment::getNumChars.
Committed by: Nicky
[12:34] Martinrj Fayray: very good : ))
[12:34] Mona Eberhardt: And there was a particular weekend when, although the homestead was mostly empty, rezzing anything was impossible after rebaking the navmesh a few times.
[12:34] Rex Cronon: what is considere and excessive amount of string objects(i assume is talking about variables)?
[12:35] Simon Linden: yeah, I'm not too surprised by that ... the navmesh baking has been trouble for a long time
[12:35] Rex Cronon: considered an*
[12:35] Martinrj Fayray: no this was a bug where resizing a floater with text would cause clientside lag
[12:35] Whirly Fizzle: That bug Mona is talking about is nasty & very much not fixed. Still see a lot of it.
[12:35] Qie Niangao: There's a whole flock of these sim memory related bugs linked under BUG-772
[12:35] Mona Eberhardt: So, does this confirm that repeated navmesh rebaking leads to this problem, Simon?
[12:36] pup Witherspoon: is the issue with Restore in Place included with that bunch under Bug-772 (if you still have it open?)
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: Thats def one way to do it. I did it on my homestead by rebaking terrrain. Each rebake ups memory allocated by about 30Mb & it never releases
[12:36] Qie Niangao: Pup: Not seeing it. But that's a different problem anyway, isn't it?
[12:36] Simon Linden: From what you're describing, Mona, yes. But I haven't looked at the code or tried it myself
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: Whirly is right. That's what I noticed too.
[12:37] Whirly Fizzle: When yoy rebake, mem allocated will go much higher, then it ettles, but at about 30Mb more each time
[12:37] Whirly Fizzle: *you
[12:37] Whirly Fizzle: *settles
[12:37] Whirly Fizzle: Gah! >.<
[12:38] Mona Eberhardt: Yup. The highest I saw (on my homestead) was almost 300MB.
[12:38] Orchidmist: Have another quick question if someone can help. WHen I log on I am using 240 MB ram, but now after 30 min online I'm using 780 mb. Is that normal or a bug?
[12:38] Talarus Luan: Normal
[12:38] Talarus Luan: AND bug, likely
[12:38] Martinrj Fayray: kelly? ping :P
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: lol Im lucky on my HS, it has that bug where it has a full regions mem allocated limit <3 Please don't fix that in a hurry :)
[12:38] Kelly Linden: sup martin?
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: But it gies the other way too, some full regions have a HS mem allocated limit
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: *gies
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: lol can't type
[12:39] Duckie Dickins: You're lucky....I've only been on 40 minutes and I'm at 1.9 gigs of ram and 1.7 of virtual ram. :P
[12:39] Duckie Dickins: but that's firestorm for ya. :P
[12:39] Talarus Luan: I think you need a drink, Whirly. :P
[12:39] Orchidmist: oh okay ty
[12:39] Qie Niangao: Whirly, it's that Welsh keyboard.
[12:39] Martinrj Fayray: kelly you suggested some time last year to raise the limit of script sizes (it's in panel_script_ed.xml) to 1 million, would that be ok if we do that as a contribution together with Oz?
[12:40] Mona Eberhardt passes some near-grog along to Whirly.
[12:40] Martinrj Fayray: "we" means the OS contributors
[12:40] Talarus Luan: yeah, I note that SL viewers tend to bloat memory usage very badly.
[12:40] Rex Cronon: kind of looks like somebody doesn't know how to use pointers:)
[12:40] Tankmaster Finesmith: im at 1.9GB as well currently
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: 1.5 here
[12:41] Krisshall: 1.7 virtual here, 600 ordinary
[12:41] Talarus Luan: 932MB
[12:41] Orchidmist: thank you all
[12:41] Siwo: 3.4gigs :D
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: 600MB with LOD factor at 0
[12:42] Kelly Linden: Martin: if you first verify performance doesn't completely tank when editing large scripts (and fix it if it does) I'm cool with that.
[12:42] Siwo: and I even don't have memory leak yet
[12:42] Rex Cronon: and btw the viewer really doesn't like firefox. viewer starts to get very laggy if firefox is running:(
[12:43] Talarus Luan: Most things get laggy with Firefox running
[12:43] Duckie Dickins: that's before the longer firefox is open....the more ram it consumes
[12:43] Simon Linden: running to different viewer versions at the same time? What could possibly go wrong? :P
[12:43] Talarus Luan: Usually when something with flash is present on a page, though
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: Disable hardware acceleration for flash. That does not play nice when on SL if you have web pages open with flash
[12:43] Rex Cronon: no flash
[12:43] Duckie Dickins: if you leave it open overnight it'll eat up your ram typically
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: Flash is crap.
[12:44] Talarus Luan: FF is a fine example of OpenBloat software :P
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I had to disable hradware accel too
[12:44] Tankmaster Finesmith: yeah, its flash that the viewer doesnt like so much, not FF itself
[12:44] Rex Cronon: and hardware accelaration is dissabled
[12:45] Kelly Linden: FF lately is not typically worse than other browsers: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/chrome-27-firefox-21-opera-next,3534-9.html though that is from June and browsers update quite frequently.
[12:45] pup Witherspoon: total change of subject.. has there been any consideration given to increasing the number of estate managers allowed on a simulator from 10 to say 20? Is there a big issue that would cause? It would be a great help to larger estates if it's not a huge issue to make that happen.
[12:46] Martinrj Fayray: Kelly would you give your OK to raise the script size limit (viewerside) to 1 million characters? Jon or me could do that as a contribution with Oz Linden
[12:46] Talarus Luan: O.o
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: I must be high because I didn't think there was a limit simultaneous present EM's
[12:46] Kelly Linden: I replied to that martin
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: asied from agent limits in general
[12:47] Kelly Linden: Martin: if you first verify performance doesn't completely tank when editing large scripts (and fix it if it does) I'm cool with that.
[12:47] Martinrj Fayray: I didn't see that, sorry
[12:47] pup Witherspoon: assigned names as estate managers
[12:47] Martinrj Fayray: okay great. I'm working with large scripts all the time
[12:47] Talarus Luan: There is a limit to the number of people who can be assigned as EMs for an estate
[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: creators in SL don't like to have 200 scripts in their builds... so we have to keep the code in less, larger scripts
[12:48] pup Witherspoon: nodding. would increasing that be something easy to do or is that tied to other issues?
[12:48] Talarus Luan: Thoughit is per sim, not per estate
[12:48] pup Witherspoon: right.. currently 10 maximum
[12:48] Talarus Luan: Yep
[12:49] Talarus Luan: I can't think of any reason why not, but I thought SCR-4 was a relatively easy feature addition, too. :P
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: pie
[12:49] Tankmaster Finesmith: cake
[12:49] pup Witherspoon: It would solve a lot of issues for us in providing coverage to residents
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: bacon
[12:49] Talarus Luan: ..so take my perception with a microgram of NaCl
[12:50] Tankmaster Finesmith: you mean the viewer?
[12:50] Rex Cronon: sadlly the bigger your script gets the more likely is that will get runtime out of memory errors:(
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: big scripts, wishlist item
[12:52] Krisshall: if you provide more space for larger scripts, won't what people do with that expand to fill it?
[12:52] Talarus Luan: Until they run out of script memory :P
[12:52] pup Witherspoon: giggles. kind of like increasing the number of groups
[12:52] Talarus Luan: Just because you can edit a bigger script doesn't mean you can compile said script
[12:53] Krisshall: would wonder on how to conserve or economize it too, or if tricks for that can be made easier
[12:53] Rex Cronon: i like to have very big variable names. if source code can be 256k than maybe that becomes a reality:)
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: just make it all AVX2 capable as well :P
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: large global and local names isn't really efficient though, why they have commenting
[12:54] Talarus Luan: for (this_is_a_long_name_for_index=0; this_is_a_long_name_for_index < 10; ++this_is_a_long_name_for_index) blah();
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm doesn't FS already have that limit raised Tank?
[12:54] Duckie Dickins: sounds like crazy talk to me. :P
[12:55] Qie Niangao: Stupid question: When a scripted object rezzes in a new sim, it's just the compiled script that it has to fetch, right? the source text stays on some server somewhere. I hope.
[12:55] Talarus Luan: I use meaningful variable names. Sometimes it makes them long, but not always
[12:55] Tankmaster Finesmith: FS can compile with AVX, if thats what you mean, whirly
[12:55] Simon Linden: yes Qie
[12:55] Qie Niangao: cool. thanks Simon.
[12:55] Duckie Dickins: I just make a variable list comment at the top of the file if I am unable to keep track of them.
[12:55] Simon Linden: the source isn't needed unless someone opens it in a editor
[12:55] Talarus Luan: Yep, some of the HUD objects I have don't have source code anymore
[12:56] Talarus Luan: "Script not found in database" when I try to edit them.
[12:56] pup Witherspoon: I'd rather read variable names that mean something than hit a script with var1, var2, var3, etc
[12:56] Jonathan Yap: Talarus, have you looked at the same object on Aditi? You might get lucky
[12:56] Qie Niangao: (Oh, right Tal, I've seen that before.)
[12:56] Duckie Dickins: well there was some trick about saving scripts without source code.
[12:56] Talarus Luan: If I ever meet Bitrot Linden, I am gonna shred him with my talons.
[12:56] Rex Cronon: i didn't say meaningful. i said big. something like this: PchzxkBy6M80zx3uggYI8fkccVWwWQuoE78Jqto07u6JiY3LVHDm370Uj5RGYb34Juj1wlkp7tC3aVnCd7xoknR0SZ5VLYToMGWKG58bgzd1SpSChxqcLT3WU8iDFkAT
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:57] Talarus Luan: yeah, I have, Jonathan
[12:57] pup Witherspoon: smh
[12:57] Talarus Luan: No joy.
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: Rex, you have a typo in the 87th letter
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: is that a global/local name or just data?
[12:58] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:58] Talarus Luan: It's probably exactly the same variable as another with the same first 63 characters. :P
[12:58] Siwo: using such names for variables.... that is almost like obfuscation :D
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: even that would be inefficient obfuscation
[12:59] rcdsQueChatLog: Davido Chrome, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:59] Rex Cronon: i use such var names for obfuscating lsl code
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: ugh
[12:59] pup Witherspoon: any timeline on the 0,0,0 issue/bug with restore in place.. possibility that might get fixed anytime soon or shall we all just cut a parcel at the SW corner and leave it wide open for anyone to rez, not rent it, so that restore in place will work?
[12:59] Talarus Luan: Why bother? :P
[13:00] Duckie Dickins: restore in place was removed officially from what I was told a year ago
[13:00] Whirly Fizzle: That isn't likely to get fixed. It only affects TPVs
[13:00] Simon Linden: restore-in-place isn't a feature in the Linden viewer, I believe ... so I doubt it's going to get much attention
[13:00] Talarus Luan: Nothing in LSL is complicated enough that a rudimentary search/replace function can't de-obfuscated it well enough
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, since compiles occur server side, you're not really capable of obfuscating the bytecode anymroe
[13:00] Rex Cronon: making it "easier" for who can read it:)
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: not since liek what 08?
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: the restore to last position will requier you to have rez rights at 0,0,0 to work. Theres not going to be any changes to that ever, it was changed to close a security exploit
[13:00] Whirly Fizzle: Plus the reason it broke was for a security fix
[13:00] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah
[13:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: simon - code was there for it, just no UI optin :P
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: I mean you can still clip the text but taht can be export
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: *ed
[13:01] pup Witherspoon: so why not get it out of the other viewers, tho it's a very nice feature, saves us lots of time jockeying stuff for residents who remove the front of their houses trying to adjust their shoe
[13:01] Whirly Fizzle: It used to be in the LL viewer. It was added to help people move regions over to Zindrea I believe.
[13:01] Rex Cronon: lol. talaurs. u never looked at obfuscated code generated by my program:)
[13:02] Talarus Luan: I don't have to, Rex. :)
[13:02] Rex Cronon: good 4 u:)
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, unless you're not obfuscating the pre compiled code anyone can decode global/local names
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: -not
[13:02] pup Witherspoon: it still works if you clear space at the SW corner and leave it open for create for anyone
[13:03] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah it works as normal as long as you have rez rights at 0,0,0
[13:03] Krisshall: you could find out what the variables are by following the code anyhow
[13:03] Rex Cronon: anyone. lols
[13:03] pup Witherspoon: right.. so if that's what I need to do, make a parcel at the SW corner on 150 some sims .. I just need to know that
[13:03] Lexbot Sinister: We have been told that the Restore feature caused more support problems than it solved, at LL's end. People needing help with fishing their stuff from under the ground, etc. So it won't be reinstalled.
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, its as simple as c/r all existances of a name with w/e you want to call it
[13:03] ac14 Hutson: i that case i would jsut assume its broken
[13:04] Martinrj Fayray: yayyy email is working again on the grid
[13:04] pup Witherspoon: well then can we get it out of the alt viewers so folks don't assume it's still avalable?
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: yay
[13:04] Lexbot Sinister: Why?
[13:04] Rex Cronon: not that simple lucy:)
[13:04] Jonathan Yap: Does OS grid support it?
[13:04] Simon Linden: yeah, I remember that too, Lex. It was fine as long as you were really careful about where you tried to put stuff back
[13:04] Lexbot Sinister: people can assume the sky is green too, all they want. Doesn't make it true.
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: I'll let you believe, Rex, heh
[13:04] Talarus Luan: Yeah, it's really that simple Rex :P
[13:04] Whirly Fizzle: Teah. Uts a really useful feature as long as you are careful
[13:04] ac14 Hutson: lol you cant remove anything from the TPVS; they still have that annoying " i can see where your looking because we decided to label the look at targets" drama feature :P
[13:05] Whirly Fizzle: *Yeah, its....
[13:05] Tankmaster Finesmith: not all TPVs have that, some even disable lookats completly
[13:05] Talarus Luan: Well, particles targeted at me "look at" my crotch, so everyone else might as well. :P
[13:05] Whirly Fizzle: You can disable your lookat target from moving though...if you don't mond the zombie stare
[13:05] Whirly Fizzle: *mind
[13:06] Siwo: you can turn it off in Kokua
[13:06] ac14 Hutson: you wouldnt NEED to disable the lookat target if they wernet labeled.
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: anime head wearing people don't mind
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[13:06] ac14 Hutson: the LL veiwer shows the targets but it does NOT have the names above it. only TPV's
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