Doc Team/2010-07-14

== Transcript ==
[13:06]	:	hey! Jeremy!
[13:06]	 	has pinged you.
[13:06]	:	Hello, everyone!
[13:06]	:	hey jeremy =)
[13:06]	 	has pinged you.
[13:06]	:	kate is very busy i presume?
[13:07]	:	Glad to see you with us Jeremy.
[13:07]	 	has pinged you.
[13:07]	:	she didnt join her own OH yesterday.. so....
[13:07]	:	Yeah, it's a busy week... I'll see what the other doc folks are up to...
[13:07]	:	lol, please do
[13:07]	:	and drag jon in!
[13:07]	:	he has been gone far to long now!
[13:08]	:	rumor has it torley not on the doc team any more?
[13:08]	:	Yeah, Torley moved to a different team a few months ago, but he's still around.
[13:09]	:	hes being groomed as the new CEO
[13:09]	:	Oh jeez, particle attack!
[13:09]	:	see
[13:09]	:	told ya
[13:09]	:	what ?
[13:09]	:	particles?
[13:09]	:	where?
[13:09]	:	I dont see any
[13:09]	:	hmm... our noob wandered off
[13:09]	:	I think my draw distance is high enough that I'm seeing the emitter on Help Island Public.
[13:09]	:	above us, yes i am aware of that
[13:09]	:	I tell you , working at LL, you start seeing things
[13:09]	:	missile got stuck above us
[13:10]	:	i filled in several AR reports and no LL to clean it up so far
[13:10]	:	wonder when that team find the time...
[13:11]	:	g-team?
[13:11]	:	g team = gone team
[13:11]	:	with Teagan gone, I don't think I know anyone on it anymore.
[13:11]	:	g-team merged
[13:11]	:	with who else?
[13:11]	:	euhm... resi team if im not mistaken
[13:12]	:	That sounds about right. I'm not sure about who's directly responsible for cleanup, though.
[13:12]	:	am I the only person who still remembers the g-team meetings? :-)
[13:12]	:	they better do it quickly though
[13:12]	:	the sim stability isnt really good lately
[13:13]	:	any linden can do it I think
[13:13]	:	in all surrounding sims that is
[13:13]	:	yes bron, all lindens are able to do those things
[13:14]	:	i wish i had a way to clean up griefer items but oh well some one killed off much of Gteam on me
[13:14]	:	its ok
[13:14]	:	give me a linden tag, hell I'll do it for free
[13:14]	:	yeah i know xstorm
[13:14]	:	Whew, looks like that mess got cleaned up.
[13:14]	:	no asking Harry Linden either, that guy is cranky a lot... :o
[13:14]	:	but are they allowed? g-team for example come to remove the item that is causing trouble, but totally ignores 10000 screaming physical cubes in the sim cause the AR about those is not under their nose at the moment
[13:15]	:	look in back of you
[13:15]	:	them Box there are the griefer items
[13:15]	:	Oh!
[13:16]	:	I totally wasn't looking in that direction.
[13:16]	:	Duty cleaning up stuff like that is a thankless job.
[13:16]	:	People burn out after awhile.
[13:16]	:	agreed with Flenser. g-team job is tough enough without getting bitched at.
[13:16]	:	i always add "thanks :) have a good day" to my AR's
[13:16]	:	=^_^=
[13:16]	:	ditto
[13:16]	:	only 12 AR for me to day
[13:16]	:	i used to do it in a few furry sims, pretty nice work and easy
[13:17]	:	and make sure no temper flaring when you fill out out.
[13:17]	:	I've been lucky lately. My estate managers have been working hard doing stuff to help get performance of sim better.
[13:17]	:	only one for me today. unfortunately, mine is going to take someone researching
[13:17]	:	Liisa, they only read a few lines
[13:17]	:	they are only allowed to take a few minutes per case
[13:17]	:	I need to go and ask some more people to get rid of stuff.
[13:17]	:	they also ignor ARs about people who have everything on their parcel on temp rezzors with double or triple the number of prims that the parcel can hold, rezzing every minute and a half
[13:18]	:	ick
[13:18]	:	pisses me off
[13:18]	:	One moment...
[13:18]	:	I been talking to both Harry and a few others of that team, they all said the same basically
[13:18]	:	18 months ago it was all ARs on cloners and matching security JIRA entries.
[13:19]	:	even above us
[13:19]	:	wb Jeremy
[13:19]	 	has pinged you.
[13:20]	:	wow better
[13:20]	:	Whew.
[13:20]	:	told ya
[13:20]	:	no more sim lag
[13:20]	:	much
[13:21]	:	so what's today's hot topic?
[13:21]	:	too much junk in a sim
[13:21]	:	TD back up to 0.99
[13:21]	:	well.. there is most likely more though,....
[13:21]	:	griefers love to leave cages invisible junk etc
[13:21]	:	todays topic is too much junk in a sim and what linden you know who can clean it up for you
[13:21]	:	but its livable now
[13:21]	:	Hmm... Any of you guys use wikis for other products that you think are particularly well-organized?
[13:22]	:	actually, no.
[13:22]	:	i have both for this av as my main av a wiki page
[13:22]	:	Wiki needs a better Tree Search
[13:22]	:	hey open
[13:22]	:	hey everybody
[13:22]	:	hi Open
[13:22]	:	wiki needs a better search period
[13:23]	:	wiki search is a mess and not very handy to use
[13:23]	:	often gets to be a mess
[13:23]	:	True. Doc team is in the middle of trying to come up with a way to better organize the wiki. It needs to be easier to find the information you're looking for.
[13:23]	:	I'm Sorry! jeremy, but unfortunately it is the truth
[13:23]	 	has pinged you.
[13:24]	:	a search working more in detail would do wonders
[13:24]	:	How so, Xaria? It already uses a Google search appliance.
[13:24]	:	and, i think Xstorms suggestion to Nyx earlier could help as well, metadata
[13:24]	:	i didnt mean that part jeremy
[13:24]	 	has pinged you.
[13:25]	:	actually, I'm fine with the current search in the wiki. what i'd like would be even more categorization.
[13:25]	:	it often spits out the most redicilous search results you will never need
[13:25]	:	is that different from any other search?
[13:25]	:	i have to go brb seems a griefer is in our sandbox
[13:25]	:	think new tag types may also do the trick
[13:25]	:	Hm. Categorization would fit some of the metadata role. Personally, I think it would benefit from better visual organization as well.
[13:26]	:	for example, resident profile pages for example could use a new tag type, for example tag called "resident" "linden" "profile" etc
[13:26]	:	to make things easier
[13:26]	:	User:
[13:26]	:	or logs could use the tag "log"
[13:27]	:	needs to be very simple jeremy, even for the real dummies
[13:27]	 	has pinged you.
[13:27]	:	Yeah, chat transcripts could certainly use their own namespace. I didn't realize until a few weeks ago just how many there were.
[13:27]	:	not everyone is as smart unfortunately
[13:28]	:	(Sorry if I'm a little slow this week... I'm back from a couple weeks of vacation. Did someone run this office hour while I was gone?)
[13:28]	:	on search itself we probably could add then a filter function, checkbox style to start out with, so you can actually filter what you need and what you dont
[13:28]	:	last week, no.
[13:28]	:	yes anytime I try to find something in the wiki I get bombarded with transcripts
[13:28]	:	(welcome back, hope you had a great vacations :) )
[13:28]	:	indeed bron
[13:28]	:	thats my point
[13:28]	:	too much of what you dont need
[13:29]	:	search for a name of a resident for example, and you get mostly transscripts instead of a profile or other info
[13:29]	:	so... pretty useless
[13:29]	:	exctly
[13:29]	:	So as long as trasscipts are all tagged, they could then be filtered.
[13:29]	:	yep
[13:29]	:	But getting everyone to tag entries properly?
[13:29]	:	that was my point indeed earlier ashiri
[13:30]	:	new tag types can solve a lot of problems
[13:30]	:	as long as people dont go stupid and forget to tag their stuff
[13:30]	:	plus of course adding a more valid seach engine that actually can filter things
[13:30]	:	Technically speaking, the wiki doesn't have "tags"... You can, however, put articles into categories or namespaces.
[13:31]	:	if you are looking for a transscript, no need, but if you looking for something more specific like a profile... its really hell to find it
[13:31]	:	For example, profiles should be under the "User:" namespace, and all Doc Team transcripts are in the "Documentation Office Hours" category.
[13:31]	:	well, i noticed you know what i meant =)
[13:31]	:	hey laurent =)
[13:32]	:	hello :)
[13:32]	:	anyways, might be a bit of time before it is actually added, but on the long term its best for us all
[13:32]	:	specially if you are a few years further
[13:32]	:	or for that matter 1
[13:33]	:	so much is being added that you won't be able to find things easily without a proper search engine with the proper options
[13:33]	:	best to add them now instead of later
[13:33]	:	later you only get a lot more trouble of it
[13:34]	:	unless someone has another idea how to solve these problems...
[13:35]	:	silence.. hmm... that either means shut up or no ideas... lol
[13:35]	:	Once we the the wiki sorted, we then educate people on filling in Jiras?
[13:35]	:	I did try to explain that there are ways to approximate tags on a wiki. For example: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
[13:36]	:	ashiri, good idea, problem is that most dont want to be bothered and rather think it is offensive
[13:36]	:	there needs to be a Jira Link on the dashboard on the frontpage
[13:36]	:	isnt specific enouth jeremy
[13:36]	 	has pinged you.
[13:36]	:	lol
[13:36]	:	oh, Jeremy... new friend?
[13:36]	 	has pinged you.
[13:36]	:	There are about three different ways to filter for any Doc Team office hour transcript. They all start with "Doc Team/", they're all in the category "Documentation Office Hours"
[13:37]	:	noticed the same aar :p
[13:37]	:	...and I'll think of a third way soon enough :-P
[13:37]	:	still jeremy, thats just the doc team OH's
[13:37]	 	has pinged you.
[13:37]	:	If you want people using tags on wiki you'll have to be patient. I don't see lot of them using such tool in RL
[13:37]	:	lol
[13:37]	:	if you are looking for my main avi's name, its a hell to find it
[13:37]	:	Jeremy what about a link to the Jira page on the dashboard ?
[13:37]	 	has pinged you.
[13:37]	:	besides that, links to my profile on logs are NOT leading to my profile!
[13:38]	:	just to point out the problem
[13:39]	:	try it and you will see my point
[13:39]	:	I type "Xaria Mistwallow" into the wiki search and your user page is the first result.
[13:39]	:	no, my main av
[13:39]	:	lol
[13:39]	:	You want your alt linked to your main?
[13:40]	:	nooooo
[13:40]	:	lol
[13:40]	:	rather have as less people as possible know who my main is
[13:41]	:	hm... almost wish that sometimes
[13:41]	:	searching for my main avi's name and you end up with pretty much logs only
[13:41]	:	likewise, oh wait, I am my main
[13:41]	:	searching for Xaria however is spot on
[13:42]	:	searching for my alts leads to very odd results
[13:42]	:	thats my point ashiri
[13:43]	:	search is not always right and could lead up to problems
[13:43]	:	strange thing is, Jeremy searched for my main av's name and he did get it right away
[13:43]	 	has pinged you.
[13:43]	:	somethign i dont
[13:43]	:	I'm definitely going to take this into consideration on some of our internal wiki talks this week... Doc team has been trying to think of ways to re-organize the Knowledge Base, which is the section of the wiki we have the most control over.
[13:44]	:	so.... a bug or something we may have found?
[13:44]	:	/me has the magic search.
[13:44]	:	it may be a old link on your part
[13:44]	:	well... to be honest, the youri in the chat logs is strangely not linked to my page...
[13:45]	:	same name and all...
[13:45]	:	but isnt linked properly
[13:45]	:	YAY!! SIM LAG!!
[13:45]	:	so there is something more going on i fear
[13:45]	:	a number of things can do it
[13:45]	:	think it's time to find out what it might be
[13:45]	:	dirty cache
[13:45]	:	is one
[13:46]	:	isnt my cache
[13:46]	:	my cache is cleared each day
[13:46]	:	what part of it ?
[13:46]	:	or lately each day 20 times....
[13:46]	:	all of it
[13:47]	:	end of the day i run a program before i close the PC off
[13:47]	:	Xaria: I'm lost. Are you talking about finding your page on the wiki ?
[13:47]	:	and no, not telling the name
[13:47]	:	no laurent
[13:47]	:	the wiki search is showing odd results
[13:48]	:	when I look for my own name (not this one but my main avi's name) i get only chat logs
[13:48]	:	however
[13:48]	:	and the user profiles are quite similar =^_~=
[13:48]	:	when Jeremy just now tried, he got my page instantly
[13:48]	 	has pinged you.
[13:48]	:	i seem not to be the only one with the problem
[13:48]	:	more people actually have similar problems
[13:49]	:	so it can not be on my side only
[13:50]	:	it might be solved by added tags as i been telling, but... that infact wont work if the chat adapted to actually understand those tags
[13:50]	:	i'm going to need to go. Take care everyone.
[13:50]	:	very simple ones that everyone can easily access and with the info what it is for and how to use them
[13:50]	:	bye flenser
[13:50]	:	Thanks for coming, Flenser.
[13:50]	:	bye Flenser
[13:50]	:	hey jule, welcome
[13:51]	:	anyways, get my point laurent?
[13:52]	:	what I understand is that you look for your main av name in the wiki and don't get your home page :)
[13:52]	:	so far your right jeremy
[13:52]	 	has pinged you.
[13:52]	:	Hi Jule, have a seat. This is an open office hour for Linden Lab's documentation team. We write online help for Second Life.
[13:52]	:	laurent* oops
[13:52]	:	:)
[13:52]	:	noticed jeremy typing... lol
[13:52]	 	has pinged you.
[13:52]	:	my bad
[13:53]	:	I'm distracting, I know.
[13:53]	:	lol
[13:53]	:	it can't be the cache of the mediawiki itself ? Lot of these tools have a cache which need to be cleared from time to time
[13:54]	:	it might be so laurent
[13:54]	:	if those got cleared each month, it may be solving problems
[13:54]	:	but i think the problem may be laying deeper then that
[13:54]	:	as i said, not only 1 person has that problem
[13:55]	:	hmm... even more strange....
[13:55]	:	you've tried that : To clear the cache of a page in MediaWiki, you should add &action=purge to the end of the page's URL in your browser's address bar, e.g. : http://www.yourdomain.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=purge ?
[13:56]	:	thats the one i was talking about
[13:56]	:	i just clicked a search result of my main avi's name and my name is not even linked
[13:56]	:	so... how will it ever be possible to find my profile that way?
[13:57]	:	hello richard, welcome!
[13:57]	:	hello
[13:57]	:	Hello!
[13:58]	:	even linden names are not linked to a profile page i see
[13:58]	:	Welcome to the very end of this week's Documentation Team open office hour.
[13:58]	:	Xaria, my user page is http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Jeremy_Linden
[13:58]	 	has pinged you.
[13:58]	:	not even yours jeremy
[13:58]	 	has pinged you.
[13:59]	:	too much noise here :)
[13:59]	:	Granted, all it says is "Can be found on twitter", but it's definitely there.
[13:59]	:	no, i meant on the logs
[13:59]	:	your name is not a link
[13:59]	:	Oh.
[13:59]	:	check it out
[13:59]	:	Yeah, that depends on how I set the tool I use to format chat logs.
[14:00]	:	it would be a lot better if names that are already in, got linked automatically to their pages
[14:00]	:	if the name is not a link in the logs, it can be a bug in the wikifier
[14:00]	:	It's not official, just something Zai Lynch pointed me at a long time ago.
[14:00]	:	lemme see, doc oh log.....
[14:00]	:	how can i visible my face back please
[14:00]	:	Doc-o-log
[14:01]	:	Hi Richard. Are you using the official Second Life viewer software?
[14:01]	:	this one is linked properly: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Jeremy_Linden/Office_Hours/2009-7-22
[14:01]	 	has pinged you.
[14:01]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	i thin k yes
[14:01]	:	this is more text only: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Doc_Team/2009-10-14
[14:01]	:	no one can find me on the Wiki at all
[14:01]	:	CTRL ALT R a zillion times
[14:01]	:	cant link if its text only :p
[14:01]	:	Ok, click the shirt tab on the right side of the screen, the click "Wearing" at the top of the sidebar.
[14:02]	:	and if you happen to be using dual monitors
[14:02]	:	move teh SL screen to teh other one and edit appearance
[14:02]	:	I'm Sorry! jeremy, not everyone is that rich :p
[14:02]	 	has pinged you.
[14:03]	:	Rich?
[14:03]	:	anyways, get my point? its rather fustrating to see no links to profiles
[14:04]	:	could solve the problem as well
[14:04]	:	Xaria, there is no official tool for logging office hours. The one I use does happen to capture names when it's lucky, but Linden Lab doesn't own the tool; before I found it, I just posted in plain text.
[14:05]	:	if there was a tool directly linked so people could create easily their logs and post that with linked profiles etc, then it would be a big help
[14:05]	:	Yes it would!
[14:05]	:	perhaps find a way to get that tool linked somehow? promote it?
[14:06]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:06]	:	or find a nice way to get it linked with approval of the owner?
[14:06]	:	I've used this one for a while : http://slog.whiz-kids.de/
[14:06]	:	guys, I need to run. take care
 
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Category:Documentation Office Hours