Mesh/Archive/2011-07-25

==Agenda==
# Loki asked in the forum Long Live Mesh Beta Grid? how long will the Mesh Regions be around in ADITI? What are the plans for the Mesh Regions in ADITI? - Nalates Urriah
# Mesh Volunteer page links to version 2.8.1.236285 not the latest Mesh Viewer. Is that intentional? Is that the viewer for residents to use to test mesh in the main grid roll out? Is the grid, AGNI/ADITI, still hard coded in most Mesh Viewers? Nalates Urriah
# Can you please reconsider https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-662 ? The answer given is not very satisfying, as this actually discourages the use of the new physics shape system. I have a vehicle with 31 prims. If I set some of the prims to physics shape none it shows up as 70 prim equivalence cost. I don't think anyone is going to use the physics shape system for none mesh content if it's going to bloat up the prim cost like this. I strongly suggest to not apply the new accounting rules for any linkset that does not contain mesh. Thank you. - Lares Carter 
# Addendum to above: Applying the new accounting rules to standard prims linked to meshes also severely limits the cases where simple linked prims can sensibly be used for physics shapes, because of high download or server weights.
# Your "tutorial" seems to be broken. We complete the questions correctly, then it's still pink. After we press "let's get started" again, we are taken to the last question (shown as answered correctly) then we' re still pink despite the last message that says we are good to go. (edit: It seems there is already a JIRA open, named CTS-717) (Angel Alphaville)
# Max number of normal prims in a linkset is 256. How many is max PE of mesh objects in a linkset? [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Can we get a simple preview of the ground when importing rigged mesh. Possibly an extra check box we could turn on if we need. [Racush Cheeky]
# Have they set up a centralized location for education and documentation? [Eleanora Newell]
# Open Source Surprise for davep.[Wolfpup Lowenhar]
# Are the headers (author name, etc) in the dae file retained after the mesh is uploaded? If so, can that information be retrieved from the uploaded mesh in case of an IP dispute?[Ashasekayi Ra]
#Has PE and upload cost been finalized?[Ashasekayi Ra]
#Could I suggest that you add a slider in preferences or box for RenderVolumeLOD to make it easier for people to find and adjust? I really work the lowest LOD level down to maintain low prims, but those with good computers may wish to increase their LOD switching. I plan to include notecards with my products to instruct customers how to adjust it. [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Are we there yet? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Are the parameters od download, physics and server mesh finalised yet?
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Acheron Gloom (acheron.gloom)
*Angel (angel.alphaville)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Bronson Blackadder (bronson.blackadder)
*Brookston Holiday (brookston.holiday)
*Bunnie Mills (bunnie.mills)
*Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
*Chiron (chiron)
*Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
*Don't Release (donot.release)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Jennifur Vultee (jennifur.vultee)
*Jusden Jonstone (jusden.jonstone)
*Evil the Cat (kadah.coba)
*Lares Carter (lares.carter)
*Latif Khalifa (latif.khalifa)
*Mesh Release (mesh.release)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nix Manx (nix.manx)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Racush (racush.cheeky)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Skygirl Kline (skygirl.kline)
*And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
*Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday July 25, 2011==
[12:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Drongle!
[12:01]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	haha nah just something I did for fun
[12:01]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey charlr
[12:01]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey prep
[12:01]	Prep Linden 	yoyo folks
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Charlar. Will Nyx join today's meeting?
[12:02]	Jusden Jonstone 	greetings lindens
[12:02]	Charlar Linden 	yes
[12:02]	Acheron Gloom 	Hey prep, charlar (Hey prep, chat)
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	OK thank you!
[12:02]	Charlar Linden 	and he can answer the questions I ducked last week, if you ask them again. :-)
[12:02]	Rusalka Writer 	I crashed.
[12:03]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Ra!
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer 	Sigh.
[12:03]	Jennifur Vultee 	hi Ash
[12:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hi Yuzuru and Jennifur :)
[12:03]	Jusden Jonstone 	hey nyx
[12:03]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	heyNyx
[12:03]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I can't install 2.8.2.236668..
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha.
[12:03]	Eleanora Newell 	hiya, nyx
[12:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha waves about.
[12:03]	Mesh Release 	no run fast away nyx *gg
[12:04]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Nyx!
[12:04]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey TankMaster
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	ok, ready to start on the agenda?
[12:05]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	i do not see davep is he going to be here today?
[12:05]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	n/m there he is
[12:05]	Drongle McMahon 	I see him
[12:05]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	hiya woldpup
[12:05]	Charlar Linden 	to start:
[12:05]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	UGH, stupif mesh-dev
[12:05]	davep (runitai.linden) 	howdy howdy
[12:05]	Charlar Linden 	#1 Loki asked in the forum Long Live Mesh Beta Grid? how long will the Mesh Regions be around in ADITI? What are the plans for the Mesh Regions in ADITI? - Nalates Urriah
[12:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello devep!
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	we plan on keeping mesh regions on aditi for the foreseable future.
[12:06]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Nice!
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	we expect you'll use it to test uploads
[12:06]	Latif Khalifa 	well isn't all of aditi going to be mesh enabled anyway once agni gets it
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	I think Nyx said as much in teh forum
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	latiff - yes
[12:07]	Charlar Linden 	next up
[12:07]	Charlar Linden 	#2 Mesh Volunteer page links to version 2.8.1.236285 not the latest Mesh Viewer. Is that intentional? Is that the viewer for residents to use to test mesh in the main grid roll out? Is the grid, AGNI/ADITI, still hard coded in most Mesh Viewers? Nalates Urriah
[12:07]	Nyx Linden 	236285 is our official "project viewer" that we want to merge into viewer-development in a bit
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	mesh-development is getting updates that would go into a future release
[12:08]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx
[12:08]	Charlar Linden 	make sense to everyone?
[12:08]	Acheron Gloom 	Acheron Gloom nods
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	so we're hoping our project viewer is stable enough for release, but will make any necessary crashfixes, etc to merge down. Mesh-development will continue to get future work
[12:09]	Rusalka Writer 	Nothing's made sense since last May, but carry on. Don't mind me.
[12:09]	Charlar Linden 	Next...
[12:09]	Charlar Linden 	#3 Can you please reconsider https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-662 ? The answer given is not very satisfying, as this actually discourages the use of the new physics shape system. I have a vehicle with 31 prims. If I set some of the prims to physics shape none it shows up as 70 prim equivalence cost. I don't think anyone is going to use the physics shape system for none mesh content if it's going to bloat up the prim cost like this. I strongly suggest to not apply the new accounting rules for any linkset that does not contain mesh. Thank you. - Lares Carter
[12:10]	davep (runitai.linden) 	I guess a more satisfying answer is that the new cost is representative of the actual physical complexity of the prim
[12:10]	davep (runitai.linden) 	most prims are NOT efficient physically
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	so using the new physics shape type shows the accurate cost info
[12:11]	davep (runitai.linden) 	if you use the physics shape display, you can see what the physics rep of your prim is
[12:11]	davep (runitai.linden) 	for example, if you do a non-uniform scale on sphere, it turns into a mesh for havok
[12:12]	Latif Khalifa 	we all know that. but the fact remains that PE cost is so high it's going to be unused
[12:12]	Charlar Linden 	Related item...
[12:12]	davep (runitai.linden) 	if you do uniform scale only, it stays as an analytical sphere
[12:12]	Charlar Linden 	#4 Addendum to above: Applying the new accounting rules to standard prims linked to meshes also severely limits the cases where simple linked prims can sensibly be used for physics shapes, because of high download or server weights.
[12:12]	davep (runitai.linden) 	davep eyeballs the two prim kettle.
[12:12]	Lares Carter 	I understand that, but it kills almost every use of the physics shape system for linkset that do not contain mesh.
[12:12]	Latif Khalifa 	Presumably you do want people to use the new features
[12:13]	Drongle McMahon 	But it can add up to 24 to the download weight if you use a sphere for physics shape.
[12:13]	Lares Carter 	Noone is going to activate it, if it doubles the prim count.
[12:13]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	^
[12:13]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Lares: you're *probably* seeing the streaming cost being applied to the prim geometry
[12:13]	Drongle McMahon 	3 for a 5m sphere, 7 for a 10m sphere, 11 for a 20m sphere.
[12:14]	Latif Khalifa 	lol
[12:14]	davep (runitai.linden) 	yeah, that's the streaming cost being applied to the prim geometry
[12:14]	Latif Khalifa 	is that a bug?
[12:14]	Drongle McMahon 	Exactly davep .
[12:14]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(streaming cost doubles as a "geometry" cost)
[12:15]	Latif Khalifa 	So wait, yoi are charging people for what my GPU is doing?
[12:15]	Latif Khalifa 	i want a cut!
[12:15]	Lares Carter 	But that is still what the linkset will use from region resources?
[12:15]	davep (runitai.linden) 	it's by design, but we should definitely add the ability to have that geometry "opt-out" of the render engine if all it's doing is providing a physics shape
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	S nobody will use spheres for physics because they cost too much PE. = lost physics engine savings
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer 	Just load up everything all shrunk down and tiny.
[12:15]	davep (runitai.linden) 	but that won't happen for the first release
[12:16]	Latif Khalifa 	are you seriously charging for gemetry cost that is done one my GPU?
[12:16]	Lares Carter 	Should i reopen CTS-662 then?
[12:16]	Latif Khalifa 	there is no streaming cost for prims (or negligable one)
[12:16]	davep (runitai.linden) 	"streaming cost" is a misnomer, it's more of a "geometry cost"
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	Yes davep.....https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-563
[12:16]	Latif Khalifa 	prim geometry is like 20 bytes
[12:17]	Latif Khalifa 	the rest is done client side
[12:17]	Acheron Gloom 	Prims > simple parameters, mesh > not simple. (Prima> simple parameters, mesh> not simple.)
[12:17]	davep (runitai.linden) 	right, the PE doesn't just want to save bandwidth, it wants to maintain a reasonable triangle budget
[12:17]	Drongle McMahon 	It's for making other users render it, Latif
[12:17]	Latif Khalifa 	Drongle, sure, but land tier is not payed to me for my GPU use
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	basically, undo the mistake of charging 1 prim for a cube and 1 prim for twisted hollow torus
[12:18]	Charlar Linden 	alright, next item
[12:18]	Latif Khalifa 	that was not a mistake. nickle and diming is not the way to treat ustomers
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	#5 Your "tutorial" seems to be broken. We complete the questions correctly, then it's still pink. After we press "let's get started" again, we are taken to the last question (shown as answered correctly) then we' re still pink despite the last message that says we are good to go. (edit: It seems there is already a JIRA open, named CTS-717) (Angel Alphaville)
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	We have uncovered a possible issue with counting items completed in the tutorial. We're looking into it right now.
[12:20]	Charlar Linden 	Anyone who seems to be blocked should report it - add a not to CTS-717
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	... and you have to press the "Previous" button before you can abswer the first question (Firefox).
[12:20]	Mesh Release 	and payment right ? only file or info ?
[12:20]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	heh I went all the way to the first question
[12:20]	Charlar Linden 	Angel, you should be working now, btw.
[12:21]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	the browser is Firefox by the way
[12:21]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	ok Charlar (ok Talk)
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	ok, thanks, that's good info about firefox.
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	added to jira
[12:21]	Jusden Jonstone 	firefox 4 or 5 or both?
[12:22]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	mm it was 4, and I think also with 3.6, not sure about that
[12:23]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	I tend to set cookies selectively
[12:23]	Jusden Jonstone 	seems to work fine for me in firefox 5
[12:23]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next?
[12:23]	Charlar Linden 	#6 Max number of normal prims in a linkset is 256. How many is max PE of mesh objects in a linkset? [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	its still 256 prims, not 256 prim equivalents. So you can link 256 discrete objects together
[12:24]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I head over 256 PE in a linkset.
[12:25]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Is it move Prim count to object count ?
[12:25]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I have been explaining this to others, that build edit window should read something like "7 parts, 10 PE
[12:25]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hmm
[12:25]	Vivienne Daguerre 	people new to mesh find that confusing... "So what is it? 7 prims or 10 prims?" Perhaps change the first "prims" to "parts"
[12:26]	Rusalka Writer 	Good idea.
[12:26]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	So you would look at the object count instead of PE for the linkset?
[12:26]	Vivienne Daguerre 	so you could have 256 parts, even though the PE could be more
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	build panel currently shows objects, prims, and PE
[12:26]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	So we can make 1000 PE boots..
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	so the "prims" number has to be 256 or less
[12:26]	Rusalka Writer 	Oy.
[12:27]	Dahlia Trimble 	does PE even matter for attachments?
[12:27]	Eleanora Newell 	can someone please tell me how to get people's names to display on the chat? i can't tell who's talking
[12:27]	Nyx Linden 	we're looking into automatically muting avatars over a certain limit as a viewer-side effect if you're concerned about performance
[12:27]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	preferences -> chat -> check "enable plain text"
[12:27]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	Eleanora, sounds like you have display name look up failure. Turn off display names.
[12:28]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Auto muting? Can it be adjusted with the viewer?
[12:28]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	300 PE means not over 256 prims?
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Yuzuru: correct
[12:28]	Nyx Linden 	by muting I mean displaying as visually muted, you'd still be able to chat with those avatars of course :)
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	it would be a viewer-side effect so you could adjust the parameters yourself of course
[12:29]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	PE is that counts against the parcel prim counts.
[12:29]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	How to know correct prim count? (How to know correct first count?)
[12:29]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yes right. This will come out after the mew ARC is revealed?
[12:29]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*new
[12:29]	Rusalka Writer 	Whenever that happens...
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	we'll be investigating it at the same time, it will likely be related
[12:30]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Ah ok
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	moving on...
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	#7 Is the license of the llm file of the Viewer LGPL? Or is it CC BY 3.0? I sent a e-mail to Nyx, but I have no reply. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:30]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	Instead of muting, couldnt you force impostering?
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	I've spoken with Oz about it, he's actively working with legal to get the license clarified
[12:31]	Drongle McMahon 	what's llm?
[12:31]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	llm?
[12:31]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you. I will ask about it to Oz.
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	Kadah - impostoring doesn't work on all hardware unfortunately :(
[12:31]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	Ah. Thats sad.
[12:31]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The files that hold avatar morph data Drongle.
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[12:32]	Charlar Linden 	next...
[12:32]	Charlar Linden 	#8 Can we get a simple preview of the ground when importing rigged mesh. Possibly an extra check box we could turn on if we need. [Racush Cheeky]
[12:32]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you Ra. I am slow type writer..
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	llm is the mesh files for the avatar we ship with the viewer
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	:)
[12:32]	Charlar Linden 	I think you added a CTS for that?
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	I like the ground idea.
[12:32]	Charlar Linden 	We have it under consideration.
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	WIll it on.
[12:32]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	oh good its been hard getting the offset just right
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I like the ground idea too.
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	This was an air bunny on the first upload.
[12:33]	Charlar Linden 	next...
[12:34]	Charlar Linden 	#9 Have they set up a centralized location for education and documentation? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:34]	Charlar Linden 	RIght now: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh
[12:35]	Charlar Linden 	We'll clean up some of the beta references, but on teh right side are most all the links we have.
[12:35]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Do we have to send our video tutorial submissions to a specific person?
[12:36]	Mesh Release 	send it to torlay .)
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	jeremy linden (and me)
[12:36]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks Charlar (Thanks Chat)
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	Torley's good as well
[12:37]	Charlar Linden 	#10 Open Source Surprise for davep.[Wolfpup Lowenhar]
[12:37]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	can I send my tool's tutorial?
[12:37]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	Second Life 2.8.2 (112061119) Jul 25 2011 12:30:49 (Second Life Developer) <- check the build number
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden) 	hmm?
[12:38]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	davep im on a fresh built Os mesh viewer
[12:38]	davep (runitai.linden) 	w00!
[12:38]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	it is includint the new lib in its inital stage
[12:39]	davep (runitai.linden) 	nice
[12:39]	davep (runitai.linden) 	can you upload?
[12:39]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	wolf was able to get the opensource convex decomp working
[12:39]	Latif Khalifa 	not likely
[12:39]	Latif Khalifa 	ah
[12:39]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	nope that is the next part but at least can come here with a localy built viewr and NOT crash
[12:40]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	TankMaster wb and are you on the new one now?
[12:40]	davep (runitai.linden) 	kk, which jira should I be watching for progress?
[12:40]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	open-105
[12:40]	davep (runitai.linden) 	cool
[12:40]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	naw, havent reloged yet to install it
[12:40]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next...
[12:40]	Mesh Release 	bwyt poinT ?
[12:40]	Charlar Linden 	#11 Are the headers (author name, etc) in the dae file retained after the mesh is uploaded? If so, can that information be retrieved from the uploaded mesh in case of an IP dispute?[Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	no, those tags are not part of our internal asset format
[12:41]	Vivienne Daguerre 	good question!
[12:41]	Vivienne Daguerre 	drat!
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer 	That would have been nice.
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yes
[12:41]	Latif Khalifa 	uploader SL id and date of upload is
[12:41]	Dahlia Trimble 	is there some documentation available anywhere for the format of the convex hull part of the mesh asset? I havent seen it anywhere
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	correct, we do store who uploaded it and when
[12:42]	Vivienne Daguerre 	yay!
[12:42]	Drongle McMahon 	But does the database have uploading user and timestamp?
[12:42]	Rusalka Writer 	Groovy.
[12:42]	Nyx Linden 	asset format documentation is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Mesh_Asset_Format
[12:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty (Company)
[12:42]	Rusalka Writer 	Still, it's not mesh stolen in-world that will be the avalanche. It's uploading mesh from everywhere else.
[12:43]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next...
[12:43]	Charlar Linden 	#12 Has PE and upload cost been finalized?[Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:43]	Charlar Linden 	no.
[12:43]	Rusalka Writer 	So don't upload anything you don't want to upload again?
[12:43]	Drongle McMahon 	Oh. You can cancel my question then
[12:43]	Latif Khalifa 	we can still hope for a miracle
[12:44]	Chiron 	PE is way too high for large objects. Hopping for a miracle :-)
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	asset format is not going to break
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	Minimum prin count of 2 might chnge as well?
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden) 	a change in PE won't mean you have to upload again
[12:44]	Drongle McMahon 	What are the criteria for deciding to change them?
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	so anything you upload today will work tomorrow
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	We can quote/blame you?
[12:44]	Mesh Release 	the miracle is you pay now min.10L in future min 150l :)
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	we will try not to break assets you upload today :)
[12:44]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Question: Are you guys considering to drop the 2 PE minimum server charge?
[12:45]	Vivienne Daguerre 	which I appreciate very much... I have been uploading a lot of stuff!!
[12:45]	Rusalka Writer 	Subtle difference in phrasing...
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	we're not going to drop server cost, but we may revisit the exact formula used in future releases.
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden) 	in the mean-time, you can get < 1 prim per mesh if you link them together
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden) 	it's 2 prims minimum per linked set
[12:46]	Drongle McMahon 	But not less than 0.5.mesh
[12:46]	Drongle McMahon 	0.5/mesh
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden) 	right
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	0.5 prims per mesh is the minimum *server* cost (0.5 for thin mesh * server * is the minimum cost)
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	if your linkset is not bound by server cost, your mesh object can cost less than 0.5 prims in the linkset
[12:46]	Dahlia Trimble 	is it possible to upload a model with fewer than 4 LODs? also a model with no physics components?
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden) 	but at that point, the mesh is mostly metadata and overhead, not actual geometry
[12:47]	Drongle McMahon 	But the PE cannot be lewss than 0.5 per prim, whatever the limiting weight is.
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Dahlia: yes, choose "none" in the level of detail tab
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden) 	and just don't do anything on the physics tab
[12:47]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty (Company)
[12:47]	Charlar Linden 	Upload cost will go up after we reach 100% deploy to maingrid.
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer 	Lovely.
[12:48]	Drongle McMahon 	How much will it go up?
[12:48]	Jennifur Vultee 	upload costs for mesh or everyrhing?
[12:48]	Charlar Linden 	mesh costs
[12:48]	Drongle McMahon 	And will it still be 1/20 the price to upl.oade many mershes at once?
[12:49]	Charlar Linden 	and next...
[12:49]	Rusalka Writer 	Why is SL the only technology that never gets cheaper?
[12:49]	Charlar Linden 	#13 Could I suggest that you add a slider in preferences or box for RenderVolumeLOD to make it easier for people to find and adjust? I really work the lowest LOD level down to maintain low prims, but those with good computers may wish to increase their LOD switching. I plan to include notecards with my products to instruct customers how to adjust it. [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:49]	Drongle McMahon 	Please publish bthe upload fee calculation.
[12:50]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	"Object" under that panel is RenderVolumeLOD afaik, its just set very low by default
[12:51]	davep (runitai.linden) 	there's a slider in preferences
[12:51]	davep (runitai.linden) 	not sure how to make it more accessible than that
[12:51]	Acheron Gloom 	Yeah, object mesh LOD is the same as RenderVolumeLOD.
[12:51]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	And the max isnt very high either, but I cannot swear to that for v2/meshdev.
[12:51]	Drongle McMahon 	It goes 0 - 2. Most people use 4.
[12:51]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I have not seen that. I have to go to debug settings to change it
[12:51]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I haven't seen the slider in preferences either.
[12:51]	Rusalka Writer 	Looking for it...
[12:51]	Acheron Gloom 	Its the one called "Mesh detail: Objects"
[12:51]	Acheron Gloom 	under Graphics
[12:52]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Oi (Hi)
[12:52]	Acheron Gloom 	the limit is just 2.0.
[12:52]	Rusalka Writer 	Ah.
[12:52]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:52]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	Anything less than 3 usually make most sculpts look bad at anything greater than taken up the full screen.
[12:52]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks
[12:52]	davep (runitai.linden) 	at that point you might as well set RenderDynamicLOD to FALSE
[12:52]	Rusalka Writer 	I'm on mid.
[12:52]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	it would be under graphics advanced activated the there are differnt sliders for mesh details
[12:52]	Drongle McMahon 	Not for jewellery, davep?
[12:53]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	that is what i do turn of Dynamic LOD
[12:53]	Rusalka Writer 	Nanoprims must die.
[12:53]	Vivienne Daguerre 	just a thought... I know we need to optimize the lowest LOD for those with older or minimally acceptable graphics cards
[12:53]	Rusalka Writer 	So must 1.23
[12:53]	Vivienne Daguerre 	but we should make it easier for those with better to get a better experience
[12:53]	Drongle McMahon 	16xradius isn't very far away for small things.
[12:53]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	1.23 is killing isnt self slowly
[12:54]	Nix Manx 	i tested this the other day on my house, at lowest object detail, the house wouldnt show anything but the lowest LOD, even zoomed into the middle of the house
[12:54]	Vivienne Daguerre 	or perhaps change the defaults, so with the Ultra slider position, it isautomatically set to 4
[12:54]	Nix Manx 	but 1 notch up, made a huge difference
[12:54]	davep (runitai.linden) 	maybe we should add a "show all sculpts at highest LoD" debug setting
[12:54]	davep (runitai.linden) 	and TPVs can turn that on if they want
[12:54]	Drongle McMahon 	Nix ... on lowest, renderVolumeLODFactor is 0
[12:54]	Nix Manx 	I see
[12:54]	Charlar Linden 	and next...
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	well, I am suggesting you take it out of debug settings and putting an adjustment in the preferences drop down to make it easier for people, especially noobs
[12:55]	Charlar Linden 	#14 Are we there yet? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:55]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	we already change the defaults for the LOD slider in graphics on TPVs
[12:55]	Nyx Linden 	no! if you keep asking I'll turn this mesh car around :D
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	to tell people how to do it, I first have to tell them how to get the advanced menu
[12:55]	Nyx Linden 	(actually we're almost there :D)
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Vivienne Daguerre laughs
[12:55]	Skygirl Kline 	lol
[12:55]	Charlar Linden 	I can see there from here
[12:55]	Rusalka Writer 	Glad I've been set on mid.
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	thank you Nyx... and bounces up and down
[12:55]	davep (runitai.linden) 	davep can't see agni from aditi.
[12:55]	davep (runitai.linden) 	how are you doing that?
[12:55]	Mesh Release 	where is my pony ???
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	yay!!
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	Must build giant mesh car for next meeting...
[12:56]	Charlar Linden 	Last item for today.
[12:56]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:56]	Charlar Linden 	#15 Are the parameters od download, physics and server mesh finalised yet?
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	Pony.
[12:56]	Drongle McMahon 	Sorry...already answered
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	When are we going main grid 100%?
[12:56]	Charlar Linden 	np, didn't want to skip it
[12:56]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	end of augest
[12:56]	Nyx Linden 	when its stable enough to do so :)
[12:56]	Charlar Linden 	When we're ready to
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	Dang.
[12:56]	Vivienne Daguerre 	hahahha
[12:57]	Vivienne Daguerre 	awwwww.......
[12:57]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	when its working more gooder
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:57]	Charlar Linden 	somethign like that
[12:57]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	㋡
[12:57]	Charlar Linden 	it's working pretty more good now.
[12:57]	Mesh Release 	you are not ready befor we see a pony in the Lib....
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Unicorn.
[12:57]	Charlar Linden 	and with that, I think we're finished.
[12:57]	Nix Manx 	if 0% is totally unstable and 100% is completely stable, where would you say we are? :)
[12:57]	Drongle McMahon 	Has anyone in the test isl;ands blown away their content by linking mesh to it yet?
[12:57]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	42
[12:58]	Rusalka Writer 	I only crashed once today!
[12:58]	Nix Manx 	42 is less stable that 0% :p
[12:58]	Bunnie Mills 	i crash when i repeat the same upload : P
[12:58]	Drongle McMahon 	can we keep our ploat on mesh sandbox 15?
[12:58]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	I crashed like 8 times
[12:58]	Drongle McMahon 	...our plots...
[12:59]	Rusalka Writer 	OpenGL working on OSX yet? How about Lion?
[12:59]	Evil the Cat (kadah.coba) 	Swiched to using mesh dev on an alt so I could still chat >.>
[12:59]	Rusalka Writer 	I think we're doing well.
[12:59]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	apple broke a lot of stuff in lion
[12:59]	Drongle McMahon 	(that's the trouble with typing with two finres, you sometimes get them the worng way ruond)
[13:00]	Vivienne Daguerre 	oh I noticed that some apha textures on Agni look bad with the viewer, but not all... is there a jira for that already or should I make one?
[13:00]	Charlar Linden 	sandbox 15 -- I don't see them going away, but I can't guarantee them forever.
[13:00]	Rusalka Writer 	I'm not touching Lion yet until I know SL, mesh, and Blender all play well.
[13:00]	Vivienne Daguerre 	if I turn off light and shadow, they look fine, but with light and shadow on, they don't
[13:00]	Brookston Holiday 	is this sandbox 15 on the main grid?
[13:00]	Bronson Blackadder 	blurry alpha?
[13:00]	Vivienne Daguerre 	no, it is like the alpha part disappears and it is solid
[13:00]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Sandbox 15 on beta
[13:00]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I noticed it in a friend's hair
[13:00]	Rusalka Writer 	That could be bad.
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Vivienne: working on that now
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(Lion issues)
[13:01]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Vivienne Daguerre smiles...
[13:01]	Vivienne Daguerre 	ok, so no need for jira, you are aware of it... thanks
[13:01]	Brookston Holiday 	any public sims on main with mesh yet?
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/viewer-development-shining-fixes/rev/236666/index.html
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yes there are Brookston
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	not a mesh viewer
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	but should help with Lion issues a bit
[13:01]	Charlar Linden 	We will likely move this meeting to Agni starting next week. I'll update the usergroup page when we make the change.
[13:02]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	kewl
[13:02]	Mesh Release 	bad news
[13:02]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I like that
[13:02]	Rusalka Writer 	Who's gonna pay for the benches?
[13:02]	Charlar Linden 	We can expense them
[13:02]	Drongle McMahon 	Yes. You'll need a new place for meetings.
[13:02]	Rusalka Writer 	Excellent.
[13:03]	Vivienne Daguerre 	laughs
[13:03]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Vivienne: SH-2038 and SH-2031 are tracking some general issues that seem to plague lion
[13:03]	Charlar Linden 	And we're done
[13:03]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I can always put down some benches, unless someone else would like to
[13:03]	Vivienne Daguerre 	thanks
[13:03]	Charlar Linden 	cheers, see you on agni!
[13:03]	Rusalka Writer 	To quote Cindy Lauper, "money changes everything."
[13:04]	Eleanora Newell 	i must go, see you all next week on agni
[13:04]	Bunnie Mills 	bye bye
[13:04]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[13:04]	Prep Linden 	later folks!
[13:04]	Skygirl Kline 	byes
[13:04]	Drongle McMahon 	bye
[13:04]	Nyx Linden 	have a great week all :)
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