Open Source Meeting/2009-11-19

== Transcript ==
*[13:57] Aimee Trescothick: hmm, somebody should make a sculpty version of Rob to leave on his seat, it's not the same without him
*[13:57] Morgaine Dinova: Think we'll hear about his replacement today?
*[13:57] Aimee Trescothick: I doubt it, I think theyre probably only just starting the recruitment process, if they are at all
*[13:58] Aimee Trescothick: and the wheels of the labsHR dept. move slowly
*[13:58] Geo Meek: voice for this meeting?
*[13:58] Ardy Lay: No
*[13:58] Geo Meek: :-(
*[13:59] Geo Meek: thats ok i can record text
*[13:59] Geneko Nemeth: Proprietary blob for the lose!
*[13:59] Geneko Nemeth: Um, I mean epic fail!
*[13:59] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov!
*[13:59] Merov Linden: Hi guys
*[13:59] Aimee Trescothick: hi Merov :)
*[13:59] Ardy Lay: Hi Merov
*[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: Merov, you're sitting in Rob's spot .... should we read anything into that? ;-)))))
*[14:00] Aimee Trescothick: lol
*[14:00] Merov Linden: only that I'm doing most of the chit chat... :)
*[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
*[14:00] Techwolf Lupindo sniffs around rob sent...
*[14:00] Aimee Trescothick: no, it's just because I forgot to change my socks this week
*[14:00] Techwolf Lupindo: around for rob sent
*[14:00] Techwolf Lupindo: gah...my typo...are getting worse.
*[14:00] Morgaine Dinova: Ah, scent :-)
*[14:01] Merov Linden: looks like I'm the only Linden around... again...
*[14:01] Geneko Nemeth: Well, you will be our onny port on the LL firewall Mewov!
*[14:01] Merov Linden: it's Merov for you Geneko :)
*[14:01] Geneko Nemeth: So it's natural you'll have the highest throughtput.
*[14:01] Geo Meek: this well be streamed live here http://www.livestream.com/secondlifenews
*[14:02] Merov Linden: O my! Streamed live...
*[14:02] Merov Linden sweats...
*[14:02] Geo Meek: do bas no one care to use voice
*[14:02] Geo Meek: but you can read text on it
*[14:02] Geo Meek: =bad
*[14:02] Geneko Nemeth: 3rd party clients sometimes don't use voice, and it's harder to keep up.
*[14:03] Geo Meek: ya right
*[14:03] Ardy Lay: Hi Soft
*[14:03] Merov Linden: I'm not sure why we started and continued with text only here
*[14:03] Soft Linden: Melinda, Moka :3
*[14:03] Soft Linden: Hey hey Ardy
*[14:03] Merov Linden: but it seems to suit that crowd
*[14:03] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Soft :-)
*[14:03] Geo Meek: so smile :-)
*[14:03] Soft Linden: Tech, Morgain, Eimee - all the regulars :3
*[14:03] Merov Linden: ok, I think we can declare that meeting open
*[14:03] Melinda Latynina: i think the text-only is simply to create a full record
*[14:04] Aimee Trescothick: hi Soft :)
*[14:04] Maggie Darwin: And one irregular....
*[14:04] Geneko Nemeth: Hey Soft!
*[14:04] Soft Linden: Hey hey!
*[14:04] Morgaine Dinova: Battery Street is most Irregular
*[14:04] Melinda Latynina: hello soft. great to see you!
*[14:04] Geneko Nemeth wonders if Rob's replacement would be a furry.
*[14:04] Techwolf Lupindo: Voice can be relayed to the parcel music channel for those with voice problems and can persipate via text responce.
*[14:04] Merov Linden: here's the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Open_Source_Meeting /Agenda
*[14:04] Morgaine Dinova: What is the official position on Rob's replacement ... assuming there is a public position.
*[14:04] Tillie Ariantho: hey! :)
*[14:05] Techwolf Lupindo: Geneko, A wolf I hope. :-D
*[14:05] Geneko Nemeth: No way, fennecs are a lot more capable!
*[14:05] Ardy Lay: o/ for Release Candidate.
*[14:05] Merov Linden: Morgaine: there is an internal rec for Rob's position
*[14:05] Aimee Trescothick seconds Ardy's o/
*[14:05] Melinda Latynina: hey folks, no need to be specist here
*[14:05] Merov Linden: it hasn't made it to the public posting AFAIK
*[14:05] Maggie Darwin: I see grey people....textures in da toity again
*[14:05] Techwolf Lupindo: I would have the snowglobe reliese candiate in my gentoo overlay but for one things, there is no source code for it.
*[14:06] Merov Linden: so, first item: Snowglobe 1.2 Release Candidate
*[14:06] Techwolf Lupindo: The source code download page does not have snowglobe RC source.
*[14:06] Merov Linden: good point Techwolf
*[14:06] Tillie Ariantho: There was a "large texture rezzing problem" for snowglobe, is that fixed?
*[14:06] Merov Linden: I didn't do anything for this and I suppose it's not automatic
*[14:06] Merov Linden still new to release management here
*[14:07] Morgaine Dinova: Decompile the binary, and recompile it ;-)
*[14:07] Merov Linden: I'm taking note on doing that
*[14:07] Geneko Nemeth: Ahh great the "hit by a bus" problem...
*[14:07] Techwolf Lupindo lol
*[14:07] Merov Linden: OK so noted: post the bundles for the source code
*[14:08] Techwolf Lupindo: That could be automated.
*[14:08] Merov Linden: I haven't seen any clear show stopper being posted... yet...
*[14:08] Melinda Latynina: merov: BTW, there's no need to sit in rob's seat to fill his role.
*[14:08] Merov Linden: There are 3 bugs listed in the agenda that could be big scarry issues
*[14:09] Ardy Lay: Merov, the only serious issue I am having is like SNOW-356, sometimes SLPlugin.exe dies.
*[14:09] webkit message + failure of web-based content.
*[14:09] 
*[14:09] Maggie Darwin: And scary, too...
*[14:09] Merov Linden: SNOW 356, 357 and 359
*[14:09] Ardy Lay: When it dies I get that popup mentioned.
*[14:10] Merov Linden: The *sometimes* is warrysome...
*[14:10] Merov Linden: also: you're having this issue on Mac?
*[14:10] Merov Linden: 356 is on Mac
*[14:10] Thickbrick Sleaford: I saw a bunch of parcels set with different kinds of media in Bug Island - useful for testing this
*[14:10] Ardy Lay: I am using Windows 7 64 in an Intel machine.
*[14:10] Morgaine Dinova: Is it the plugin that briefly displays some random texture when you pop up the internal browser? It's quite a fun little game to see what it's displaying momentarily.
*[14:11] Ardy Lay: Morgaine, I haven't seen random textures there.
*[14:11] Merov Linden: random texture: I haven't seen that one
*[14:11] Aimee Trescothick: yes, I noticed that too, never got around to creating a bug report for it though
*[14:11] Morgaine Dinova: Others have
*[14:11] Aimee Trescothick slaps wrist
*[14:12] Morgaine Dinova: Often someone's clothing
*[14:12] Merov Linden: yes please, log those
*[14:12] SL Open Source General Info whispers: Thank you! Your items will be delivered to you soon!
*[14:12] 
*[14:12] Aimee Trescothick: it's like the shared mem is getting initialised incorrectly or something
*[14:12] Thickbrick Sleaford has seen that too, also mostly clothes layers
*[14:12] Merov Linden: be careful though that most (all?) plugin issue look the same from a user standpoint
*[14:12] Soft Linden: Ha. I didn't log that either. Definitely see it too.
*[14:12] Merov Linden: the quite unhelpful error display
*[14:12] Merov Linden: but there are a number of issues underneath:
*[14:13] Merov Linden: SLPLugin doesn't load
*[14:13] Aimee Trescothick: not seeing in "other LLMedia enabled viewers" though
*[14:13] Merov Linden: the plugin doesn't load
*[14:13] Merov Linden: the plugin fails somewhat (like connection time out)
*[14:13] Merov Linden: all those cases do not show up with different error messages
*[14:13] Tillie Ariantho: I have seen HUD textures on wrong places, but I think that was not related to plugin stuff but more people's pants... its weird if you see a hud texture on someone's pants. ^^
*[14:14] Merov Linden: which is in itself a problem to be fixed
*[14:14] Techwolf Lupindo: There is random graphics, but nearly the same on each start of the viewer just before the plugins load.
*[14:15] Merov Linden: well, one thing we need to do for 1.3 is fix all those plugin issues
*[14:15] Geneko Nemeth: Are you launching with or without a debugger Techwolf?
*[14:15] Thickbrick Sleaford: in SNOW-357 it looks like it rendered html text, but failed when loading images
*[14:15] at the login screen produces an error message: "The following Media Plugin has failed: media_plugin_webkit
*[14:15] 
*[14:15] Techwolf Lupindo: Geneko, both
*[14:15] Merov Linden: I've a task (SNOW-301) to get up to date with the internal plugin architecture
*[14:15] Update pluginapi code so to support MediaOnAPrimUI
*[14:15] 
*[14:15] Merov Linden: lots of things being done internally
*[14:16] Merov Linden: lots of bugs fixed along the way hopefully
*[14:16] Morgaine Dinova: Is that by the so-called "Media team"?
*[14:16] Merov Linden: correct Morgaine
*[14:17] Thickbrick Sleaford: MediaOnAPrimUI is all kinds of cool - I was sitting here with a semi-broken build of it and browsing jira issues on the big media prim a few wweeks ago
*[14:18] Morgaine Dinova: We briefly touched on media issues at Nyx's, but nothing concrete. Would be nice if there were an OH with one of the team.
*[14:18] Merov Linden: Well, they have lots of things planned for sure
*[14:18] Morgaine Dinova: Or perhaps this is the right venue for it.
*[14:19] Merov Linden: what I think I should be doing for Snowglobe 1.3, is bring the plugin architecture up to date so that, at least, if people here write plugins for Snowglobe, they will work for viewer 2.0
*[14:20] Morgaine Dinova: Wow!
*[14:20] Geneko Nemeth: Does this mean that Viewer 2.0 will feature the plug-in archetecture?
*[14:20] Morgaine Dinova: That'll cause interest :-)
*[14:20] Merov Linden: indeed, well, the plugin architecture has been made public since months now
*[14:20] Merov Linden: before even it was merged into Snowglobe
*[14:21] Merov Linden: Exhibit A: Aimee's videos :)
*[14:21] Maggie Darwin: Being made public != implemented and released. :-)
*[14:21] Geneko Nemeth: Implemented and release != will be in a mainline release.
*[14:21] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, but everyone's in a kind of limbo atm, because of the uncertainty of Viewer2.0, the departure of Rob, and the natural slowdown towards Xmas.
*[14:22] Merov Linden: fair enough... so I'm ot saying anything about the exact timing as, truly, I don't know
*[14:22] Maggie Darwin: A classic Lindenian response. Nothing is known until it happens. :-)
*[14:23] Geneko Nemeth shrugs
*[14:23] Merov Linden: but clearly, we're working on it and having it in Slowglobe is under the hope that folks will peak at the architecture, experiment, comment and help move the project in a way that makes sense
*[14:23] Morgaine Dinova: Will be great to have a fully functional interface though. Aimee couldn't proceed further because of API I/O issues I think.
*[14:24] Merov Linden: Is that true Aimee?
*[14:24] Aimee Trescothick: erm, tries to think what she can say without breaking one of two NDAs lol
*[14:24] Morgaine Dinova tickles Aimee ...
*[14:24] Morgaine Dinova: lol
*[14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: ooh, NDAs, that sound intriguing
*[14:25] Aimee Trescothick: suffice it to say, it's not quite fully useable yet, but it's not far off
*[14:25] Geneko Nemeth: They don't have any terms about not talking about them? <g>
*[14:26] Merov Linden: well, ok, for 1.3 then, improving the plugin architecture is on my pile
*[14:26] Thickbrick Sleaford suspects the part that's missing is keyboard input
*[14:26] Merov Linden: I'll check what I can bring it without breaking things
*[14:26] Merov Linden: now, 1.3 cannot be only about plugins
*[14:26] Aimee Trescothick: there's certanly still plenty that can usefully be done with plug-ins right now
*[14:26] Merov Linden: though it'll make me busy for sure
*[14:27] Ardy Lay: Can we get some texture loading fixes in too?
*[14:27] Ardy Lay: I can think of two.
*[14:27] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Q
*[14:27] Merov Linden: Ardy : yes, please!
*[14:27] Q Linden: hey, sorry I'm late
*[14:27] Aimee Trescothick: hi Q
*[14:27] Melinda Latynina: hello q
*[14:27] Soft Linden: Hey hey
*[14:27] Merov Linden: don't forget to log them
*[14:27] Maggie Darwin: Migosh, it's the incredible disappearing Q. :-)
*[14:28] Aimee Trescothick: (that always sounds like Japanese poetry)
*[14:28] Merov Linden: I'm living in PJIRA these days...
*[14:28] Q Linden: or in this case, appearing
*[14:28] Geneko Nemeth: Some featurettes?
*[14:28] Geo Meek: :-)
*[14:28] Thickbrick Sleaford: SNOW-181
*[14:28] Bump Map Brightness not rendering properly for some textures
*[14:28] 
*[14:29] Maggie Darwin: Love to see VWR-8841 move forward....there was some talk of a new storage manager?
*[14:29] Memory usage goes to 2 gig, graphics frame rate tanks, crash dump taken, viewer not responding
*[14:29] 
*[14:29] Merov Linden: yeah that's listed in the "known issues" (181 I mean)
*[14:29] Maggie Darwin: "tcmalloc"....
*[14:30] Maggie Darwin: That was the rationale for closing SNOW-177
*[14:30] Crash when Vista vmem exceeds 2gig. Looks the same as VWR-8841.
*[14:30] 
*[14:30] Morgaine Dinova: Babbage was talking about tcmalloc, he's especially keen on the instrumentation it'll give him.
*[14:30] Merov Linden: that's something that keeps coming in conversations, internal as well as OSS (the tcmalloc thing)
*[14:31] Maggie Darwin: "Memory leak------> *here*..."
*[14:31] Tillie Ariantho: That memory bug looks like the one I probably have when snapshotting and then crashing after some time... too many textures...
*[14:31] Merov Linden: hmmm... anyone around here with experience / knowledge on tcmalloc?
*[14:31] Maggie Darwin: Snapshotting, fetching profiles, displaying profiles...
*[14:31] Thickbrick Sleaford: may also be related: VWR-12573
*[14:31] Memory leak in LLImageFormatted::appendData
*[14:31] 
*[14:31] Maggie Darwin: I Googled it once. :-)
*[14:31] Carjay McGinnis: tcmalloc was mentioned a year ago already, no progress so far?
*[14:31] Q Linden: we've put several engineer-months into it, actually
*[14:32] Morgaine Dinova adds it to the list of things to worry about.
*[14:32] Merov Linden: is there an internal branch somewhere Q?
*[14:32] Q Linden: there are apparently subtleties to it that I don't know, since that hasn't been my team
*[14:32] Merov Linden: experimental code may be?
*[14:32] Maggie Darwin: Nice one, Thick.
*[14:32] Thickbrick Sleaford: I though tcmalloc is already in the viewer. isn't it?
*[14:33] Q Linden: merov, not sure there's a branch, but I'll point you at the devs
*[14:33] Ardy Lay: Morgain was plagued with a memory leak that I think she may have eliminated.
*[14:33] Maggie Darwin: As of August, no.
*[14:33] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: it's not in the viewer for sure
*[14:33] Carjay McGinnis: hm, if there has been no progress for a year I suspect it is not a trivial addition
*[14:33] Maggie Darwin: Theer was some other worthless gadget they took out....
*[14:33] Tillie Ariantho: Usually I crash at a fashion show after quite some time, depending on what I see... right when I click Snapshot --> memory allocation of 2560x1600x32bit for the texture -> crash. and when I cam around the audience, I can even crash right on the first snapshot.
*[14:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: the linux launcher as few bash lines to L_PRELOAD it
*[14:33] Thickbrick Sleaford: LD_PRELOAD
*[14:34] Maggie Darwin: Rapid camera movement exacerbates the memory leakage.
*[14:34] Maggie Darwin: SpaceNavigator users on multicores will testify... :-)
*[14:34] Q Linden: maggie, how big is your inventory?
*[14:34] Maggie Darwin: 39K
*[14:34] Maggie Darwin: items
*[14:35] Maggie Darwin: Sorry, 34k
*[14:35] Merov Linden: OK so, we're having a sort of "short list" to focus on for 1.3:
*[14:35] Q Linden: yow, yeah -- big enough to be "interesting" :)
*[14:35] Merov Linden: - progress on plugins
*[14:35] Morgaine Dinova: The memory leak was just because of libopenjpeg decode failure, which wasn't notified to caller and hence was being repeated. I didn't *fix" anything ... After confirming the fault (in Imprudence), I just poked KDU in instead.
*[14:35] Maggie Darwin: Big enough to be a distraction.
*[14:35] Merov Linden: - tcmalloc (at least finding out what's possible...)
*[14:36] Techwolf Lupindo: tcmalloc _was_ in the viewer a long time ago. I tried to build a viewer with it to no avail.
*[14:36] Tillie Ariantho: the crashes are coming way faster on vista 64bit and win 7 64 bit, much better on xp 32bit. nvidia drivers.
*[14:36] Merov Linden: - texture loading bugs
*[14:36] Maggie Darwin: Trouple TPing? Too many attachments. Lagspike on rez? Too many scripts.
*[14:36] Geneko Nemeth: Sigh... OpenJPEG...
*[14:36] Saijanai Kuhn waits paitently for the clouds to clear
*[14:36] Ardy Lay: Morgaine, I'll call that working around the issue then. :-)
*[14:36] Techwolf Lupindo: I found another texture that causes the same errorr and mem leak for openjpeg viewers maggie
*[14:37] Maggie Darwin: Not sure why inventory size should be relevant to memory leaks.
*[14:37] Twisted Laws: SNOW-352 can go in 1.3 ... hopefully :)
*[14:37] Add optional double-click teleport
*[14:37] 
*[14:37] Merov Linden: I'd *love* to see sldev contributors helping with OpenJPEG
*[14:37] Thickbrick Sleaford: hmm, Snowglobe (and 1.23 too, IIRC) has ./i686-linux/lib_release_client/libtcmalloc.so
*[14:37] Geneko Nemeth: Oh no! Not Double-click telep- oh wait, it's optional.
*[14:37] Maggie Darwin: Except reducing inventory undoubtedly frees up memory tro leak into
*[14:37] Techwolf Lupindo: How? Openjpeg upstream is all but dead.
*[14:37] Morgaine Dinova: Woot, Twisted!!!
*[14:37] Tillie Ariantho: I'd more like to see 'attach on double click' :P
*[14:38] Merov Linden: What do you mean Techwolf?
*[14:38] Maggie Darwin: Just because a library is loaded doesn't mean it's used. :-)
*[14:38] Merov Linden: no one working on it anymore?
*[14:38] Techwolf Lupindo: Thickbrick, but does the client code use that liberay at all?
*[14:38] Morgaine Dinova: Twisted: add an optional Shift modifier to it though --- the Shift should prevent badly timed doubleclicks from activating a touch event.
*[14:38] Aimee Trescothick: I believe Robin mentioned on IRC the other day something about there being signs of hope with OpenJPEG upstream? though I wasn only half listening at the time
*[14:39] Mojito Sorbet: Shift double-click? The interface is hard enough for people with limited abilities.
*[14:39] Thickbrick Sleaford: Techwolf, it's added with an env variable ($LL_TCMALLOC) but i don't know if it does anything.
*[14:39] Maggie Darwin: Good IRC channel to listen to, Aimee?
*[14:39] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me still asking for the patcehs that LL uses for there verison of OpenJPEG that is use in the prebuilt liberies and still have not recieved the patches, full source, or URL pointing to them.
*[14:39] Tillie Ariantho: hm, beta version of openjpeg from audust 2008 ...
*[14:39] Tillie Ariantho: august
*[14:40] Aimee Trescothick: #OpenSL Maggie
*[14:40] Maggie Darwin: Server?
*[14:40] Geneko Nemeth: It's not Freenode.
*[14:40] Maggie Darwin: Or rather....network
*[14:40] Geneko Nemeth: I can't believe it's not FreeNode!
*[14:40] Morgaine Dinova: Optional, Mojito. Without it, the wrong thing can happen which causes other difficulties. For example, double-click TP on a touch-activated dance floor is a right pain.
*[14:40] Geneko Nemeth: EFNet, I think?
*[14:40] Maggie Darwin: EFnet....whatever?
*[14:40] Carjay McGinnis: yes
*[14:41] Ardy Lay: irc://efnet.net:#opensl
*[14:41] Maggie Darwin: Ah. Thanks.
*[14:41] Aimee Trescothick: yup
*[14:41] Merov Linden: ok, other than that, there are currently 44 bugs logged against 1.3
*[14:41] Mojito Sorbet: I am not clear on where you TP to when you do that
*[14:41] Ardy Lay: It's in the Wiki if you lose that.
*[14:41] Merov Linden: already...
*[14:41] Maggie Darwin: Is Emerald IRC stable yet? :-)
*[14:41] Maggie Darwin: I log everything...
*[14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Maggie, somewhat. Still have 30 second viewer lockup on IRC exit.
*[14:42] Merov Linden: would be great to have your help there: more tests, more patches, more help of any kind .... :)
*[14:42] Thickbrick Sleaford: is it possible to ignore the double click if it happens on an object with touch handler?
*[14:42] Maggie Darwin: Heck, I get 30sec lockups stanging around doing nothing...
*[14:42] Morgaine Dinova: Mojito: to the picked coordinate, as always. Double-click TP quite happily TPs you to the side of walls etc ... very useful.
*[14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Merov, help there...where again?
*[14:42] Geneko Nemeth: Thickbrick: That's what I think too.
*[14:42] Geneko Nemeth: (But also other click actions!)
*[14:43] Ardy Lay: Help here--> http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter /order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10100&fixfor=10520
*[14:43] Morgaine Dinova: TBS: hence the reason for the Shift modifier, so that when there is ambiguity, it can be resolved.
*[14:44] Ardy Lay: 42 reports there, open, waiting for attention. I can handle some of them .
*[14:44] Merov Linden: great Ardy!
*[14:44] Morgaine Dinova: Currently doubleclicking on a touch-sensitive object is timing sensitive, which only benefits concert pianists :-)
*[14:45] Ardy Lay: Mostly I do reproduction testing but I don't have access to all environments.
*[14:45] Merov Linden: I'd like to move faster on incorporating patches
*[14:45] Merov Linden: so folks being able to apply and test patches are very welcome
*[14:46] Merov Linden: Ardy: can you apply code patch and build?
*[14:46] Ardy Lay: I do apply and build on Windows 7, yes.
*[14:46] Merov Linden: cool!
*[14:46] Merov Linden: that's big help right there
*[14:46] Techwolf Lupindo: I'll put a hook in snowglobe ebuilds so that gentoo users can add patches on the command line when emerging it.
*[14:46] Morgaine Dinova: Tech++
*[14:47] Q Linden: so, thickbrick, I believe that our patches to openjpg have already been pushed upstream
*[14:47] Q Linden: (sorry for the delay)
*[14:47] Morgaine Dinova: Great news, Q! Are they described anywhere?
*[14:47] Thickbrick Sleaford wasn't the one aho commented about openjpeg upstream
*[14:48] Soft Linden: It's been a while on the openjpeg patches... I think about a year ago on the list?
*[14:48] Merov Linden: which list Soft?
*[14:48] Techwolf Lupindo: It was me sorta. I comemnted that openjpen upstream was newrly dead and been asking for the openjpeg patches from LL and still ahvn'tg gotten them.
*[14:48] Soft Linden: sldev
*[14:48] Soft Linden: Googling on openjpeg with the base URL for the mailing list archives as the site: should turn it up quickly
*[14:49] Techwolf Lupindo: The prebuilt liberarys use for notstandalone don't have the source anywhere that I could find. While most of them are same as upstream, some have LL patches and that is what I am asking for.
*[14:50] Soft Linden: Drop me a reminder at soft@lindenlab.com and I'll see if there's any reason we can't drop source tarballs for what we're using
*[14:50] Soft Linden: Can compare against the same version of the official openjpeg drops if you want to tease out all changes
*[14:50] Techwolf Lupindo: Just doing a diff against upstream tarball and LL tarball can get the patches easlly enought. :-)
*[14:51] Soft Linden: Yup
*[14:51] Thickbrick Sleaford: looks like there was some recent activity in openjpeg svn: http://code.google.com/p/openjpeg/source/list
*[14:52] Carjay McGinnis: Aleric woke them up
*[14:52] Merov Linden: hmm... 2 months between 2 commits...
*[14:53] Aimee Trescothick: should https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13699 be a SNOW issue now?
*[14:53] Upgrade to OpenJPEG v2
*[14:53] 
*[14:54] Merov Linden: I think so
*[14:54] Soft Linden: Sure, could go ahead and move it there
*[14:55] Soft Linden: Really, any source issues you could move to SNOW, if they don't affect the ability to build a release viewer as it was released
*[14:55] Merov Linden: yeah, we're sitting at the front line for open source experimental code in the viewer
*[14:56] Merov Linden: so, I've a question wrt plugins (since I'll be working on it)
*[14:56] Saijanai Kuhn perks up his ears
*[14:56] Merov Linden: anyone around ready to write some? do some experiments?
*[14:56] Saijanai Kuhn raises his hand and bounces up and down
*[14:56] Maggie Darwin: Ulp...s'cuse me...gotta go.....
*[14:57] Morgaine Dinova perks up Sai's ears
*[14:57] Geneko Nemeth: Depending on how internal it can get.
*[14:57] Geneko Nemeth wants to put JavaScript into the viewer UI.
*[14:57] Merov Linden: wait wait
*[14:57] Morgaine Dinova: Yeah, writing plugins would be fun.
*[14:57] Merov Linden: I'm talking about the media plugins
*[14:57] Mojito Sorbet: oh, boring. :)
*[14:57] Saijanai Kuhn: only a short step from media plugins to the other stuff
*[14:57] Geneko Nemeth: Yeah.
*[14:57] Merov Linden: the ones that would work in what we have in Snowglobe today
*[14:58] Saijanai Kuhn: raw keyboard/mouse events work now?
*[14:58] Merov Linden: Saijanai: we have mouse events but not keyboard AFAIK
*[14:59] Aimee Trescothick: it should still be possible to write and test them running in the media browser window though
*[14:59] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, ok. That's the big holdup for more complicated plugins. If you can pass that out, then theoretically you can start working on external scripting and everythign else
*[14:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: Merov, having a build target for the plugin test app would make this easier
*[14:59] Merov Linden: actually, one of the example plugin shows how to use the plugin to brush on a texture
*[15:00] Saijanai Kuhn: In theory, Squeak will write to the plugin memory out of the box. The lowest level drawig primitive accepts a memory address if you want to supply it (I think)
*[15:01] Merov Linden: Thickbrick: you're right, you can get the XCode project for it easily enough though (tried only on Mac)
*[15:01] Saijanai Kuhn: so for me, the big holdup is still the keyboard events (and then other events as they can be added)
*[15:02] Q Linden: gotta run, all. thanks!
*[15:02] Aimee Trescothick: bye Q!
*[15:02] Merov Linden: bye Q
*[15:02] Geneko Nemeth shouts: UXIG Time!
*[15:02] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Q
*[15:02] Saijanai Kuhn: if anyone missed my spam: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Plugins_discussion
*[15:02] Melinda Latynina: ciao, q!
*[15:02] Mojito Sorbet: Mouse click at coordinates X,Y is less interesting than mouse click on button named "foo"
*[15:02] Geo Meek: / http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hippotropolis/247/19/27
*[15:03] Merov Linden: that's a good page Saijanai
*[15:03] Merov Linden: but I think we should walk before we can run
*[15:03] Melinda Latynina: +1 on saijanai's page
*[15:03] Geo Meek: http://www.livestream.com/secondlifenews
*[15:03] Merov Linden: make what we have work, then expand from there
*[15:03] Saijanai Kuhn: Mojito, those are high-level GUI events vs low-level events raw mouse at least lets you test things.
*[15:04] Merov Linden: wow! it's 3pm already!
*[15:04] Geo Meek: :-)
*[15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: though, its xy for the texture, not x, y for the screen, right?
*[15:04] Merov Linden: well, I got a bunch of action items from this meeting and directions for 1.3
*[15:04] Mojito Sorbet: Meroc, that works only provided that where you want to end up is in the same direction.
*[15:04] Merov Linden: we should continue the discussion on sldev
*[15:04] Aimee Trescothick: erm, in theory it shoule be XY for the texture
*[15:04] Mojito Sorbet: *Merov
*[15:05] Melinda Latynina: well, UV for textures
*[15:05] Aimee Trescothick: when I last tried it in the media browser I was getting XY for the floater, which was less than useful
*[15:05] Merov Linden: and please, log those bugs if you find anything awful in RC4
*[15:05] Morgaine Dinova: kk
*[15:05] Saijanai Kuhn: Merov, were you aware of that issue with floater vs texture UV?
*[15:05] Aimee Trescothick: but it works for the webkit plugin, so it's probably something I was doing wrong in the plugin initialization
*[15:06] Merov Linden: Saijanai: nope
*[15:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: either that, or kkqtwebkit is also broken...
*[15:06] Merov Linden: new to me and should certainly be logged
*[15:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: (*llqtwebkit)
*[15:07] Aimee Trescothick: I'd like to confirm it wasn't just me doing something wrong first though
*[15:07] Merov Linden: ok, I think I'm going to go work now :)
*[15:07] Aimee Trescothick: it's been a few weeks since I've been able to devote any time to it properly, but I should be able to get back to it shortly
*[15:08] Merov Linden: BTW, you're all running 1.2.4.0 right ? :)
*[15:08] Aimee Trescothick: thanks Merove :)
*[15:08] Ardy Lay: I am.
*[15:08] Aimee Trescothick: erm, without the extra e
*[15:08] Carjay McGinnis: there's something more important than SL, Aimee?
*[15:08] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Merov, et ales
*[15:08] Dzonatas Sol: 1.2.4 straight out of the box on my amd64... works sweet!
*[15:08] Ardy Lay: And thanks Merov, see you later.
*[15:08] Merov Linden: good, I need that to get a sense of the crash rate ...
*[15:08] Aimee Trescothick: heh, well, it's stuff that should give me more time for SL in future hopefully
*[15:08] Carjay McGinnis: hehe
*[15:08] Aimee Trescothick: so investment now for pay off later :)
*[15:09] Carjay McGinnis: thanks,Merov
*[15:09] Thickbrick Sleaford: oh, I noticed roblabot stopped sending crash rate emails...
*[15:09] Ardy Lay: I haven't been crashing. Am I doing something wrong?
*[15:09] Morgaine Dinova: Try harder Ardy :P
*[15:09] Merov Linden: no crash?.... ooo.... please don't tell anyone.. :)
*[15:09] Dzonatas Sol: hehe
*[15:10] Mojito Sorbet: Visit places with lots of complexity, I suppose.
*[15:10] Morgaine Dinova: Come fuzz test your viewer with us in OSgrid :-)
*[15:10] Ardy Lay: I run so long that adding a line of chat causes a render delay.
*[15:10] Tillie Ariantho: We have a big fashion on a 4 sim crossing this weekend. You can try there. :P
*[15:10] Dzonatas Sol: 2009-11-19T23:27:58Z WARNING: ll_apr_warn_status: APR: Connection refused
*[15:10] Dzonatas Sol: lots of those
*[15:10] Tillie Ariantho: big fashion show I mean.
*[15:10] Carjay McGinnis: Vivox I guess
*[15:11] Carjay McGinnis: SLVoice not running?
*[15:11] Aimee Trescothick: maybe roblabot should stand in for rob
*[15:11] Geo Meek: working here
*[15:11] Carjay McGinnis: anyone know where Rob is working now?
*[15:11] Thickbrick Sleaford: snowglobe-automails says: Last message date: Fri Nov 13 05:55:03 PST 2009
*[15:12] Morgaine Dinova: UXIG!
*[15:12] Merov Linden needs to look into that roblabot...
 
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