Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.05.20

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.05.13	Next 2014.05.27
== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk	Kennylex Luckless
Lucia Nightfire 	Mona Eberhardt
Rex Cronon 	Ron Khondji
Simon Linden 	Whirly Fizzle
Yuzuru Jewell 	
== Transcript ==
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: Not many here due to server problem
[12:19] Simon Linden: Hi
[12:19] Ron Khondji: Hello
[12:19] Simon Linden: yeah, the grid was very unhappy until a few minutes ago
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: I saw Bundha, but he was shy :D
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: We blame Ebbe so you go safe :-)
[12:20] Kennylex Luckless: Shall we wait or just think no one will come today?
[12:22] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Simon.
[12:22] Ron Khondji: Hello Yuzuru
[12:22] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Ron.
[12:22] Yuzuru Jewell: Rex will come soon.
[12:22] Kennylex Luckless: We has to give it 10 minutes to get message out it is up again
[12:22] Yuzuru Jewell: I met him at beta grid.
[12:23] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kennylex.
[12:23] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Mona.
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: Hi everyone.
[12:23] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
[12:23] Rex Cronon: hi mona
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: Hey Simon, what happened today?
[12:23] Kennylex Luckless: Hello Rex
[12:23] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Rex. You can login!
[12:23] Rex Cronon: hi kennylex
[12:23] Rex Cronon: yes. i got in
[12:24] Simon Linden: sorry, I've had my head in another window. It's been an exciting morning
[12:24] Mona Eberhardt: Your inventory finally downloaded, Rex. Thankfully.
[12:24] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[12:25] Simon Linden: So I guess we can start up the user group discussion
[12:25] Rex Cronon: mona. its not that big. around 20k:)
[12:25] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[12:25] Kennylex Luckless: Yes
[12:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: that's waht happens when baker switched it to decaffr
[12:25] Simon Linden: So, for news ... we had some chaos this morning that happened during the roll
[12:26] Rex Cronon: no kidding
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: Simon, I have a question regarding upgrading or downgrading private regions. What does this entail, from a technical standpoint? Some people say it's just a flip of a switch. My knowledge so far implies it's not. And also... What are the technical differences (NOT the differences in capabilities) between homesteads, openspace regions and full regions? Thank you.
[12:26] Simon Linden: it turns out the problem was not directly caused by the roll ... just the fact that there is more log in and log out activity then
[12:26] Simon Linden: One sec, Mona
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: ok
[12:26] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
[12:26] Rex Cronon: i will be afk 4 a while
[12:27] Simon Linden: I believe the rollout stopped in the middle, and things will get patched up tomorrow morning
[12:27] Simon Linden: We're still picking up the grid pieces and will sort out the clean up plan later in the day
[12:28] Mona Eberhardt: So, are there regions that are offline as we speak?
[12:29] Simon Linden: I don't know about offline regions, but I'm sure they'll be checking for them
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt nods
[12:29] Simon Linden: Right now the grid is stressing as there are tons of logins
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: That's expectable. :/
[12:29] Simon Linden: so there may be slower inventory loading and such ...
[12:29] Simon Linden: right, it should settle down pretty quickly
[12:30] Simon Linden: It turns out the problem this morning wasn't the new code, which is good news
[12:30] Simon Linden: anyway the dust should settle soon
[12:31] Simon Linden: Mona - I'm not sure if there's a process to switch a region between full and homestead ... is that something LL offers?
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: Yes.
[12:32] Kennylex Luckless: It was a shocking thing when the server was down, I had to talk to friends in RL and all of them uses voice.
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Converting-Private-Regions/ta-p/876303
[12:32] Simon Linden: Upgrading seems pretty easy, I'd guess ... there's headroom for all the limits
[12:32] Simon Linden: Downgrading would be tricky, or you would at least want to get the prims below the new lower limit
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: What I'm mostly interested in is the technical differences between the full regions and the openspace-based regions (openspace and homesteads).
[12:33] Mona Eberhardt: (not the differences in their limits)
[12:33] Simon Linden: There's very little ... they really are the same thing except there are more homesteads per actual CPU
[12:33] Simon Linden: as a result they get less time to run scripts
[12:34] Mona Eberhardt: So, are they based on the full region?
[12:34] Simon Linden: yes, they're 99+% the same thing
[12:34] Adamburp Adamczyk: mona, there is a differene in performance
[12:34] Adamburp Adamczyk: difference*
[12:35] Simon Linden: They're just run differently with a few different settings like the prim limit
[12:35] Simon Linden: yes, and definitely a performance difference
[12:35] Mona Eberhardt: And the avatar limit...
[12:35] Kennylex Luckless: I has to stress servers even more now and start upload textures.
[12:35] Mona Eberhardt: How many homesteads are hosted on each CPU?
[12:35] Mona Eberhardt: And how many openspaces... And how many full regions?
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: Hey Whirls.
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: Hai!
[12:36] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Whirly
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: Well, that was fun lol
[12:37] Simon Linden: I don't know if we publish the CPU allocations, Mona ... I'm looking around to see what's been mentioned before
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: If it's classified, it's ok.
[12:38] Simon Linden: Full regions are one per CPU, as mentioned at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Land
[12:38] Adamburp Adamczyk: well i can vouch for sue
[12:38] Adamburp Adamczyk: i rent a full homestead, used to have a full mainland region
[12:38] Adamburp Adamczyk: deffo a big difference
[12:38] Simon Linden: You might notice the rough difference in the limits ... that should get you a good guess :)
[12:38] Mona Eberhardt: Hmmm.
[12:39] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks!
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: any news with shineys, lol
[12:40] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Lucia.
[12:40] Kennylex Luckless: Strange, one side did not get a texture on my cube
[12:40] Simon Linden: well, I can say I was trying to grief myself with materials LSL functions the other day :)
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: hi
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: \I can grief you with it alright, heh
[12:41] Ron Khondji: 2 sides kenny
[12:41] Simon Linden: I hope we can talk more about that on Thursday at the beta user group
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: sadly anything good can be abused
[12:41] Simon Linden: and soon (I'm not sure when) have a few regions for people to try it out. We'd like to see how it gets abused and then how SL behaves, and put some appropriate limits in there
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: what I'm fuzzy on is
[12:42] Simon Linden: Currently there are no limits other than the design itself, so it's not ready yet for release
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: how is it abusable server side aside from prim param setting
[12:43] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of that, Simon... If you throttle normal and spec changes at, say, once or twice per second, is it safe?
[12:43] Simon Linden: the materials data is handled a little differently than normal textures
[12:43] Simon Linden: That rate should be fine, Mona ... I'd expect we'd support a bit higher that that
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: I guess my thinking is that all visual processing would be viewer side, but I guess not, heh
[12:45] Simon Linden: Visual processing is, yes
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: also, are all materials options accessible by LSL
[12:46] Kennylex Luckless: Justa question, if a user has been banned, how ling time do it take before the account and all things in it is removed so it is imposible to reactivate it?
[12:46] Simon Linden: but "materials" are wrapped up in another container ... it has the normal map ID, specular map id, plus all the rotations and offsets and alpha values
[12:47] Simon Linden: This allows them to be used repeatedly without fetching the same data again
[12:47] Simon Linden: so if, for example, you make a slight change to the offset value of the normal map, you end up creating a new material entry
[12:47] Simon Linden: That's the part of the system scripts will now stress
[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: can you give us examples of teh syntax formatting?
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: and what params are covered
[12:48] Whirly Fizzle: Ahhh thats why making fast manual changes to offsets etc revert then I guess
[12:49] Simon Linden: one sec, sure ...
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: was wondering how much is combined or separate
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: like in one of my apps I need to either turn off materials or just change the color
[12:50] Simon Linden: ok, for LSL on materials:
[12:50] Simon Linden: Get functions:
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_SPECULAR, integer face] returns [string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians, vector color, integer glossy, integer environment]
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_NORMAL, integer face] returns [string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians]
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_ALPHA, integer face] returns [integer alpha_mode, integer alpha_cutoff]
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: ok
[12:51] Simon Linden: you can probably guess these:
[12:51] Simon Linden: Set functions:
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_SPECULAR, integer face, string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians, vector color, integer glossy, integer environment]
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_NORMAL, integer face, string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians]
[12:50] Simon Linden: [PRIM_ALPHA, integer face, integer alpha_mode, integer alpha_cutoff]
[12:52] Mona Eberhardt: Sounds good.
[12:52] Simon Linden: There is a magic default value using NULL ids that represents "no material" ... so it can be removed
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: seems like its all covered
[12:54] Rex Cronon: now, if u could fix "the bomb" too...
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:55] Simon Linden: yeah, that one needs attention sometime
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, its in the hands of more idiots now
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: What's this bomb you referred to? I've heard about it before, but I'm not sure what it is exactly.
[12:57] Rex Cronon: its a script
[12:57] Simon Linden: it's a griefer object that's for sale
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: theres a non-scripted equiv too
[12:58] Rex Cronon: on the mp.lol
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: tpv dox method
[12:58] Kennylex Luckless: If it is for sale and is bad, why can't LL remove it?
[12:58] Rex Cronon: oh. using a tpv.
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of that... Why is it that abuse reports for such objects being sold on the marketplace never work?
[12:58] Simon Linden: the one I looked at used a variety of the different griefing methods ... nothing really new, but it brings together a lot of the ways to cause trouble
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: when activated it blocks all asset requests from entering pending state
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: depending on the method it could last 30 min or over 7 hours
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: * say block, but I mean delay
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: the server queues it still
[13:00] Rex Cronon: the bad thing is that anybody who comes to sim, sees no attachments and nobody can rez from inventory:(
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: because you can attempt to rez something, leave the sim, and it can appear horus later
[13:00] Simon Linden: yeah, it floods the region a bunch of different ways
[13:01] Rex Cronon: u can build on the ground, but if one of the objects u build tries to rez something it can't
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: cached assets can rez
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: locally cached
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: you can raw material create too
[13:02] Simon Linden: right, the back-end download queue gets clogged
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: scritps themself I mean
[13:03] Kennylex Luckless: I has been in sim before that has got all it things returned with a message that the sim is full even it not is so.
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: I had a friend that ran into taht today
[13:03] Kennylex Luckless: Is that a grief too?
[13:03] Mona Eberhardt: I think this had happened in Natoma, right, Kenny?
[13:03] Rex Cronon: that is a little different kennylex
[13:03] Kennylex Luckless: Yes
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: all his prims got returned changing a param on a material prim taht caused land impact to jump
[13:04] Simon Linden: yeah, I've heard of that kind of problem ... it can get ugly
[13:04] Simon Linden: I have to get going now, but thank you everyone for making it into the user group today
[13:04] Kennylex Luckless: I lost so many works that way :-)
[13:04] Kennylex Luckless: :-(
[13:04] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Simon.
[13:04] Simon Linden: I hope we all have a calmer week :)
[13:04] Rex Cronon: that one uses a few objects with big LI
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: typically only the latest full updated prims get returned if there is an overflow, disregarding prim age
[13:04] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:05] Kennylex Luckless: I so seldom use :-( I even do spell it wrong :-)
[13:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[13:05] Whirly Fizzle: Ty Simon
[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: thanks for teh good news with materials
[13:05] Simon Linden: right, prims _should_ be returned in an order that makes sense, so the ones that were just added or edited get returned
[13:06] Mona Eberhardt: As for the griefers... Can't you guys track them down and send a few people with baseball bats to their homes?
[13:06] Rex Cronon: lol mona
[13:06] Mona Eberhardt: And petrol bombs too.
Simulator_User_Group
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