Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-10-30

[2014/10/30 15:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/10/30 15:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/10/30 15:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): is it just me, or is TP on aditi mainland funky?
[2014/10/30 15:00] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): does the beta grid use CDN?
[2014/10/30 15:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It depends on the sim version, Tank
[2014/10/30 15:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ok
[2014/10/30 15:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): This region is Second Life Server 14.10.17.295641
[2014/10/30 15:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): means nothing to me :P
[2014/10/30 15:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): /me isnt whirly
[2014/10/30 15:01] Whirly Fizzle: Is there a region on aditi not using cdn? Or preferable one on agni, cos I don't have some repro stuff over here
[2014/10/30 15:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/14#14.10.17.295641 that's why I write these handy notes :)
[2014/10/30 15:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): No, all of agni is using the CDN now
[2014/10/30 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: Oh! Awesome
[2014/10/30 15:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): On Aditi.. surely so
[2014/10/30 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: Oh read that wrong
[2014/10/30 15:02] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2014/10/30 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: Blarg
[2014/10/30 15:03] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2014/10/30 15:03] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): i see maestro has a splitting headach
[2014/10/30 15:03] Whirly Fizzle: I need a non CDN to check sonething
[2014/10/30 15:03] Whirly Fizzle: *something
[2014/10/30 15:03] Caleb Linden: on aditi?
[2014/10/30 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, for some reason I'm a feeling a little lightheaded today
[2014/10/30 15:03] Whirly Fizzle: lol
[2014/10/30 15:04] Rex Cronon: u r no longer in the basement;)
[2014/10/30 15:04] Nal (nalates.urriah): I just thought you had something on our mind...
[2014/10/30 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hopefully this dancefloor is easy to mop..
[2014/10/30 15:05] Rex Cronon: last week u were in basement stuck with somebody
[2014/10/30 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Whirly, I think region Hail on aditi should be non-CDN
[2014/10/30 15:05] Whirly Fizzle: Ta
[2014/10/30 15:05] Duckie Dickins: I found an oldie but goodie.
[2014/10/30 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'd verify by checking the GetTexture / Mesh* cap URLs
[2014/10/30 15:06] Whirly Fizzle: ok
[2014/10/30 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, happy Halloween everybody
[2014/10/30 15:07] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): you to
[2014/10/30 15:07] Caleb Linden: wow duckie, i missed it can you do it again?
[2014/10/30 15:07] Rex Cronon: same to u maestro
[2014/10/30 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): thanks :)
[2014/10/30 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, I don't have much of an agenda
[2014/10/30 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but here it is: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/10/30 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The big news is that the CDN is now grid-wide on agni
[2014/10/30 15:08] Whirly Fizzle: Had a shoe creator saying that customers have been complaining suddenly that when they change the show textures via the HUD, the textures eiether rez in very slowly or stay stuck as grey. I can repro them staying stuck grey for ages (over 5 mins sometimes), even on the pipeline viewer & shes adamant this is new so I wanted to check behaviour on a non CDN region.
[2014/10/30 15:08] Whirly Fizzle: *shoe
[2014/10/30 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, that's curious
[2014/10/30 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): they should load the same as any other texture
[2014/10/30 15:09] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): so not at all? :P
[2014/10/30 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: covered prims don't load textures like others
[2014/10/30 15:09] Rex Cronon: i guess the cdn for japan will be filled with hello kitty textures:)
[2014/10/30 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: if their shoes are somehow covered by other prism then their textures won't load
[2014/10/30 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: *prims
[2014/10/30 15:09] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): WoW!
[2014/10/30 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Would that be something like object occlusion code going wrong, Lucia?
[2014/10/30 15:10] Lucia Nightfire: and I think theres distance threshold with the non-loading of covered prism too
[2014/10/30 15:10] Duckie Dickins: sounds like object occlusion working
[2014/10/30 15:10] Lucia Nightfire: noteven talking abotu alpha occlusions either, heh
[2014/10/30 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): nice thinking, Duckie :)
[2014/10/30 15:10] Rex Cronon: what can oclude your hud?
[2014/10/30 15:10] Lucia Nightfire: noticed this with people covering other's stuff in WT
[2014/10/30 15:10] Duckie Dickins: however, I got a picture frame that loads the next image behind the first and then turns the first transparent and that has been working fine for me.
[2014/10/30 15:11] Whirly Fizzle: Dont think so. Its just really slow texture loading. Often the textures will just load 1st level and get stuck, unless you TP or relog. Dunno whats going wrong yet.
[2014/10/30 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, that does sound like a bug if it's not loading textures which are in view. But I suspect that's unrelated to the CDN change
[2014/10/30 15:11] Lucia Nightfire: I had to move my cam inside their cover prims for the textures of whatever they were covering to load
[2014/10/30 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm
[2014/10/30 15:11] Whirly Fizzle: I just wanted to compare on a non CDN region to see if behaviour was different.
[2014/10/30 15:12] Duckie Dickins: turn off object occulusion and then try it
[2014/10/30 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): What complicates things is that the HTTP project viewer was also promoted to the release channel
[2014/10/30 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which should make everything much faster
[2014/10/30 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Already tested on pre-HTTP viewer. No change
[2014/10/30 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Infact HTTP viewer seems worse >.<
[2014/10/30 15:12] Duckie Dickins: it's not suppose to load textures that are hidden from view behind other objects.
[2014/10/30 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It might be interesting to try HTTPRangeRequestsDisable=FALSE, whirly
[2014/10/30 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Okay
[2014/10/30 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: That need a relog?
[2014/10/30 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think.. not?
[2014/10/30 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe just moving into a new region
[2014/10/30 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: Does that disable pipelining?
[2014/10/30 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): No, there's a separate setting for that
[2014/10/30 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): HTTPPipelining (false to disable)
[2014/10/30 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: kk
[2014/10/30 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The range request is an http header
[2014/10/30 15:14] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 'send me bytes 0 -4095'
[2014/10/30 15:14] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): then it requests the other bytes later as it needs them
[2014/10/30 15:14] Whirly Fizzle: okay
[2014/10/30 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't know the intricacies about which sorts of ISPs or networking gear would want that disabled (as the debug setting suggests); I'm sure Monty would have an idea has he wrote that note.
[2014/10/30 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I would also compare loading with the 3.7.18 viewer to see if the shoe issue is a regression in the viewer HTTP changes
[2014/10/30 15:16] Whirly Fizzle: Okay
[2014/10/30 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): In other update news, the Snack channel was fully dissolved
[2014/10/30 15:16] Duckie Dickins: I'd tell them to stop wearing baggy pants so their shoes are hidden. :P
[2014/10/30 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): as the CDN project is out
[2014/10/30 15:17] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the regions should be back to their original channels, though I was just informed that 1 region went back to a different channel
[2014/10/30 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Also, the regular RC channels got a pretty minor maintenance project
[2014/10/30 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the release note is just 'minor improvements'
[2014/10/30 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which is pretty vague, but also accurate
[2014/10/30 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there should be no functional differences; there was just some code cleanup and some extra optional debug logging
[2014/10/30 15:20] Lucia Nightfire: I think you should use the Snack regions for testing a fix for BUG-6035
[2014/10/30 15:21] Margithe: yay special Jira club- i'm not invited.
[2014/10/30 15:21] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Maybe, but the fix doesn't exist yet
[2014/10/30 15:21] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Would you mind summarizing it, Lucia?
[2014/10/30 15:22] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): that bug is for "LSL email registration "
[2014/10/30 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: its when email receivers stop receiving emails until you move the receiver out of the region then back or reset the region
[2014/10/30 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: random loss of registration
[2014/10/30 15:23] Caleb Linden: ah that one
[2014/10/30 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: although I think caps play a role somehow
[2014/10/30 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: yes Caleb is all over fixing that one, heh
[2014/10/30 15:24] Caleb Linden: hehe
[2014/10/30 15:24] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): A similar bug was filed recently
[2014/10/30 15:24] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we should link them up
[2014/10/30 15:24] Caleb Linden: will do
[2014/10/30 15:24] Caleb Linden: one moment
[2014/10/30 15:24] Lucia Nightfire: BUG-7554 I think
[2014/10/30 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yep!
[2014/10/30 15:25] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-7554
[2014/10/30 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which is public
[2014/10/30 15:30] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Aside from that shoe issue and that temporary UK issue (reported in the sim updates forum thread, http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-10-27/td-p/2852640 ), has texture and mesh loading improved?
[2014/10/30 15:30] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ask me when we have merged http to FS :P
[2014/10/30 15:31] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, it should still be a bit faster even without the viewer change
[2014/10/30 15:31] Whirly Fizzle: Good for me so far. I seem to be seeing more textures stuck half loaded on the HTTP viewer though. Keeping an eye on that. Anyone else noticed it?
[2014/10/30 15:31] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): for some, yeah
[2014/10/30 15:31] Whirly Fizzle: Half loaded & blurry and they sometimes don't ever rez
[2014/10/30 15:32] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): (to maestro)
[2014/10/30 15:32] Whirly Fizzle: Its like that bug is back. hum.. lemme find the issue
[2014/10/30 15:32] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-6382
[2014/10/30 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: 43 secs, you're slipping
[2014/10/30 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: lol
[2014/10/30 15:33] Caleb Linden: lol
[2014/10/30 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: gonna downgrade you from S class jira hunter to A+, the horror
[2014/10/30 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, do you see those WARNING messages from Monty's comments?
[2014/10/30 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): hah
[2014/10/30 15:33] Rex Cronon: whirly. r u busy eating pumpkin:)
[2014/10/30 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: Haha. I need to check that Maestro.
[2014/10/30 15:34] Theresa Tennyson: I've noticed issues with loading mesh items at login that should have been cached. They load at a low LOD or don't show up at all - sometimes they show up eventally, sometimes they don't. Re-logging fixes it.
[2014/10/30 15:35] Margithe: does selecting them help?
[2014/10/30 15:36] Whirly Fizzle: Havnt decided whether what I think im seeing is placebo yet. Because of CDN & HTTP viewer being out, Im looking for weird stuff with textures & meshes you know? Maybe looking too hard hahaha.
[2014/10/30 15:36] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah that seems quite possible
[2014/10/30 15:36] Theresa Tennyson: Sometimes - often it's worn mesh which isn't selectabe.
[2014/10/30 15:36] Margithe: No-show mesh is just... a such long-winded bug, it feels it's always existed by now :/
[2014/10/30 15:36] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though the bug sounds somehwat real
[2014/10/30 15:37] Are there logs on the CDN side of things which LL can access to help troubleshoot issues?
[2014/10/30 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think most of the useful logging on this case would be on the viewer
[2014/10/30 15:39] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and maybe inspecting the cache beforehand to see if it should be fetching the texture/mesh at all
[2014/10/30 15:39] Theresa Tennyson: It seems like the mesh-loading issues are worse when I'm switching from one account to another.
[2014/10/30 15:40] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): hm, the same cache files would be used.. except for inventory cache of course
[2014/10/30 15:40] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): do they go away some if you clear cache?
[2014/10/30 15:41] Theresa Tennyson: I haven't tried. Re-logging fixes the wonky meshes.
[2014/10/30 15:42] Margithe: was the bug with non-appearing meshes ever fixed? i thought it was still on-going. it's been around forever now.
[2014/10/30 15:43] Margithe: I still got no hair, or one shoe is missing on occasion. happens to worn mesh, but not rigged. Etc
[2014/10/30 15:43] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm not sure, Margithe.. if it depends on the rigging, perhaps that could be a rendering issue?
[2014/10/30 15:43] Whirly Fizzle: Theres a weird mesh loading issue (not new) thats "fixed" by deleting a certain per account file. I don't even know why it should even work but it does. Sometimes a certain mesh gets stuck and will not render for a certain account. Relog doesn't fix it & neither does a cache clear. You have to delete texture_list_last.xml in the per account settings files.
[2014/10/30 15:44] Margithe: O.o wow
[2014/10/30 15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Interesting!
[2014/10/30 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Voodoo....
[2014/10/30 15:45] Margithe: Sl works in mysterious ways...
[2014/10/30 15:45] Whirly Fizzle: Heh certainly does
[2014/10/30 15:47] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): By the way, be careful about GPU drivers
[2014/10/30 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the new AMD Catalyst beta driver broke things: BUG-7653
[2014/10/30 15:48] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): yeah, no one needs those
[2014/10/30 15:48] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): drivers are overrated
[2014/10/30 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): And apparently the OS X Yosemite update reverted to an old Nvidia driver, for reasons unknown
[2014/10/30 15:48] Whirly Fizzle: If that driver gets to release... fun times
[2014/10/30 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which make SL unusable..
[2014/10/30 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: Are LL going to file a bug report with AMD?
[2014/10/30 15:49] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm not sure what the plan is for that - Oz may know
[2014/10/30 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: Hmmm also the default starter avies are all rigged mesh . Noone with AMD graphics will be their avatars heh
[2014/10/30 15:50] Whirly Fizzle: *see
[2014/10/30 15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, if you disable hardware skinning, you can see yourself.. but yeah it'll be invisibility by default, I suppose
[2014/10/30 15:51] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ill try and test that bug after i figure out why my onedrive isnt syncing on that computer
[2014/10/30 15:51] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): need to make use of the 10.4TB storage :P there
[2014/10/30 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: Mesh looks ugly with HW skinning disabled though, plus no ALM shiny
[2014/10/30 15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, all normal and specular maps don't render in that case
[2014/10/30 15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which is a lot uglier
[2014/10/30 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: Disabling HW skinning can also cause a big performance drop on better systems
[2014/10/30 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: Downgrade driver is best solution I think
[2014/10/30 15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes
[2014/10/30 15:52] Margithe: What an excellent reason to get rid of the new mesh starter avatars :P
[2014/10/30 15:52] Theresa Tennyson: Considering that it WORKED BEFORE THEY CHANGED SOMETHING...
[2014/10/30 15:53] Caleb Linden: :) ^
[2014/10/30 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: Theres many excellent reasons for that :P
[2014/10/30 15:53] Margithe: Honestly , they have been nothing but a giant pain in the butt.
[2014/10/30 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: Agree
[2014/10/30 15:54] Margithe: make a new standard mesh already.
[2014/10/30 15:54] Theresa Tennyson: The problem is they released the mesh avatars before the technology was mature. They SHOULD have been consistently weighted. The Belleza mesh body is a thing of beauty using the same technology.
[2014/10/30 15:54] Whirly Fizzle: Im keeping a list of all the problems reported with the starter avies :D https://jira.secondlife.com/issues/?filter=16598
[2014/10/30 15:55] Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Inara Breen! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/10/30 15:55] Margithe: The belleza dancing vagoo mesh? is that the same one we are talking about?
[2014/10/30 15:55] Inara Breen: Hi, folks!
[2014/10/30 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: OMG that thing is hilarious
[2014/10/30 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: Someone post the gif lol
[2014/10/30 15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hey, this is a G region!
[2014/10/30 15:56] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2014/10/30 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: That ones creator error though heh
[2014/10/30 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: Ahhh see? maestro knows about it ahahaha
[2014/10/30 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me denies any and all knowledge :)
[2014/10/30 15:57] Margithe: Anyhow, we really, really, REALLy need a new mesh body that is standardised by LL. I'm not kidding. The frankenbodies we are desperately trying to patch over this old, jagged av mesh are inventing just so many new issues it's ridiculous. Just bite the bullet. It has to be done. better sooner than later.
[2014/10/30 15:57] Theresa Tennyson: It will be - in the new platform.
[2014/10/30 15:57] Theresa Tennyson: /me whistles.
[2014/10/30 15:57] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ^
[2014/10/30 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: and after that, implement animated objects, heh
[2014/10/30 15:58] Margithe: The new platform can have stuff when it pays for itself. Right now we're paying for SL.
[2014/10/30 15:59] Theresa Tennyson: Are you going to volunteer to reply to the BAWWWW that will be caused when the mesh is changed because SL only supports one avatar mesh at a time?
[2014/10/30 15:59] Margithe: ALL content is actually improving, it's just the av mesh that is stuck. And the replacement do nothing but cause confusion.
[2014/10/30 16:00] Margithe: Sl supports actually two- male mesh and female mesh. No? So why not a third?
[2014/10/30 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay.. we're out of time
[2014/10/30 16:00] Whirly Fizzle: But they have dancing vagoos! can't beat that lol
[2014/10/30 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and more importantly, my lunch has arrived (at 4pm!)
[2014/10/30 16:00] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx all
[2014/10/30 16:00] Margithe: or are both ruth?
[2014/10/30 16:00] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): have a good weekend, maestro and caleb
[2014/10/30 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you too
[2014/10/30 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/10/30 16:00] Theresa Tennyson: Both are Ruth, basically.
[2014/10/30 16:00] Whirly Fizzle: Ty Lindens
[2014/10/30 16:00] Caleb Linden: seee ya!
[2014/10/30 16:00] Margithe: have a good lunch maestro
[2014/10/30 16:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/10/30 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Thanks, will do!
[2014/10/30 16:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Caleb.