Bug triage/2007-10-09/Transcript

* [10:06] Torley Linden: WOOT!
* [10:06] McCabe Maxsted: ahoy benjamin! welcome
* [10:06] Torley Linden: AHOY BENJAMIN!
* [10:06] Squirrel Wood: Holla!
* [10:06] Torley Linden: Our captain is here!
* [10:06] Benjamin Linden: morning all :-)
* [10:06] Saijanai Kuhn: yo
* [10:06] Nock Forager: morning
* [10:06] Kooky Jetaime: why does that sound like Starcraft?
* [10:06] Daedalus Young: evening
* [10:06] McCabe Maxsted: hahaha
* [10:06] Benjamin Linden: apologies for running late
* [10:07] McCabe Maxsted: zerg rush?
* [10:07] Kooky Jetaime: That sounds like a protoss speaking backwardsd
* [10:07] Saijanai Kuhn: ssotorp?
* [10:07] Squirrel Wood: 3 situps, 6 pushups and one round around the sim. ^^
* [10:07] Benjamin Linden: so I have some sad news: Iridium Linden is no longer with Linden Lab
* [10:07] Squirrel Wood: on your hands.
* [10:07] Squirrel Wood: Eeeep
* [10:07] Benjamin Linden: so she won't be joining us for these meetings any longer
* [10:07] Daedalus Young: aww
* [10:07] McCabe Maxsted: aww, oh no
* [10:07] Benjamin Linden: sadly
* [10:07] Nock Forager: www
* [10:07] Squirrel Wood: That's sad to hear
* [10:07] Torley Linden: I'll miss her!
* [10:07] Torley Linden: I already do.
* [10:07] McCabe Maxsted: me too
* [10:07] Benjamin Linden: me too Torley
* [10:08] Kooky Jetaime: Does one person here do our weekly agenda or is it group effort?
* [10:08] Nock Forager: That's why her house removed.
* [10:08] Benjamin Linden: well Iridium used to do it but ideally the agenda would be a group effort
* [10:08] Benjamin Linden: like last week Dale did most of the agenda
* [10:08] McCabe Maxsted: where did she go of to?
* [10:08] Benjamin Linden: at least I think it was Dale
* [10:09] Kooky Jetaime: So I won't get shot if I add some bugs to the bottom of it :)
* [10:09] Benjamin Linden: she's going to continue working on Second Life-related projects, just not at LL
* [10:09] ca whispers: * Abranimations Couples Animator Ready...
* [10:09] McCabe Maxsted: :) nice to know she'll still be around, somewhere
* [10:09] Benjamin Linden: I love your little turtle Saijanai
* [10:10] Nock Forager: Who will host internationalization triage?
* [10:10] Turtle thinks: that that Benjamin is nice too
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: hey Dnate
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: great av!
* [10:10] Dnate Mars: hello
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: that's a good question Nick
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: I was just wondering that last night
* [10:10] Torley Linden: sits quietly and listens.
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: I'll need to ask around and see what the plans are for that triage
* [10:10] Benjamin Linden: I imagine Jaime Linden will take them over
* [10:11] Squirrel Wood: Iridium also did office hours on the teen grid
* [10:11] Benjamin Linden: yes, she was very active on teen grid
* [10:11] Benjamin Linden: she'll definitely be missed
* [10:11] Benjamin Linden: but the show must go on! :-)
* [10:11] Benjamin Linden: shall we get started
* [10:11] McCabe Maxsted: yes please
* [10:11] Benjamin Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
* [10:11] Dnate Mars: sigh, I am cursed
* [10:12] Benjamin Linden: unfortunately I didn't have time last night to run a new query for the agenda
* [10:12] Benjamin Linden: if someone wants to do that now while we work through this list that would be fantastic
* [10:12] Wyn Galbraith: Oh no! I'm sorry to hear about Iridium! I really like her.
* [10:12] Benjamin Linden: otherwise we'll just see how far we get with these and maybe wrap up early
* [10:12] McCabe Maxsted: I know wyn
* [10:12] McCabe Maxsted: we should write her a card
* [10:12] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1746 - Profile > Web tab: no URL in profile keeps buttons greyed until a page is loaded, after that, Load button remains active
* [10:13] Wyn Galbraith: got to meet her.
* [10:13] Benjamin Linden: thanks Squirrel!
* [10:13] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [10:13] Daedalus Young: I hope 1746 is clear enough
* [10:13] Benjamin Linden: I'm reading it now
* [10:13] Daedalus Young: basically inconsistency with greyed out buttons
* [10:14] Torley Linden: *looks*
* [10:14] Daedalus Young: I haven't checked it in the RCs though
* [10:14] Benjamin Linden: ok yeah I see what you mean
* [10:15] Benjamin Linden: the load button should disable when the field is blank
* [10:15] Daedalus Young: yes
* [10:15] Squirrel Wood: and it should activate when a valid url is entered
* [10:16] Wyn Galbraith: is having RLInterruptous.
* [10:16] Daedalus Young: yes, don't know about valid url, but you can compare it with the chatbar: Say and Shout are only active when text is entered
* [10:16] Benjamin Linden: Torley, let's go ahead and import this, as a small priority
* [10:16] Benjamin Linden: it's probably an easy fix
* [10:17] Torley Linden: Sure!
* [10:17] Torley Linden: *imports*
* [10:17] Torley Linden: And we're rolling... :)
* [10:17] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1759 - Crashing with group invites when groups are maxed out, and a wrong order of steps to accept the invite is performed
* [10:17] Torley Linden: Daed, nice picture on that one for sure.
* [10:17] Torley Linden: Thanks for URLifying, Squirrel.
* [10:17] Daedalus Young: thanks Torley
* [10:18] Torley Linden: Oh Ben are you editing the wiki as we go along?
* [10:18] Benjamin Linden: yes Torley
* [10:18] Torley Linden: Kay.
* [10:18] Torley Linden: Hmmm... PART of this is a dupe.
* [10:19] Torley Linden: I know because we resolved it internally recently -- the crashing part.
* [10:19] Benjamin Linden: this one says that it might be related to a resolved bug
* [10:19] Benjamin Linden: why do you say "part" torley
* [10:19] Wyn Galbraith: I haven't seen this one.
* [10:19] Torley Linden: *looks closer* hmmm...
* [10:19] Squirrel Wood: It may be on Macs only
* [10:19] Torley Linden: on closer inspection it may not be the same, sec, let me find the other one.
* [10:19] Torley Linden: I was thinking of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2471 but that is somewhat different.
* [10:19] McCabe Maxsted: someone invite me into a group, I'll try to repro it
* [10:20] Benjamin Linden: is it this one?
* [10:20] Benjamin Linden: 
* [10:20] Kooky Jetaime: watches McCabe get a crapload of invites
* [10:20] Daedalus Young: if I read the repro correctly, it's not so much about maxed groups, but joining the group twice
* [10:20] Wyn Galbraith: I will McCabe
* [10:20] Torley Linden: I wasn't thinking of that one Ben, but I've seen that too.
* [10:20] Daedalus Young: once in the blue box and once in the grey
* [10:20] Kooky Jetaime: Still here McCabe?
* [10:20] Torley Linden: McCabe, did you already get invited to a group?
* [10:20] Kooky Jetaime: I think thats a yes
* [10:21] Kooky Jetaime: I invited him to one
* [10:21] Kooky Jetaime: now he's silent
* [10:21] Benjamin Linden: lol
* [10:21] McCabe Maxsted: hm, no crash
* [10:21] Kooky Jetaime: ok, let me invite you again
* [10:21] Squirrel Wood: Are you on a Mac ?
* [10:21] Wyn Galbraith: OOps
* [10:21] McCabe Maxsted: no, I'm windows
* [10:21] Wyn Galbraith: Dang lag.
* [10:21] Kooky Jetaime: Ok, duplicate invite sent
* [10:22] Squirrel Wood: Environment: Mac OS X 10.4.10, Intel Core 2 Duo @ 2 GHz, 1 GB RAM, ATI Radeon X1600 w/128 MB of RAM
* [10:22] McCabe Maxsted: it might be because I run the nicholaz viewer too, I'll try with the main one later
* [10:22] Benjamin Linden: god this is really confusing
* [10:23] Benjamin Linden: I think the problem is this window that pops up when you're at max groups
* [10:23] Torley Linden: This sounds like a time when a video would help...
* [10:23] Benjamin Linden: I agree Torley
* [10:23] Wyn Galbraith: I'm maxed out but don't have any I can give up to test.
* [10:23] Squirrel Wood: you basically have two dialogs open that join you to the same group and the second one does not check whether you are already in the group or not ?
* [10:23] Torley Linden: It's hard for me to spatialize these UI elements without pictures.
* [10:23] McCabe Maxsted: yeah. Anyone with a mac care to try?
* [10:24] Saijanai Kuhn: has powerPC mac
* [10:24] Benjamin Linden: was anyone able to repro it?
* [10:24] Wyn Galbraith: is windows.
* [10:24] Squirrel Wood: Winbugs here too
* [10:24] Benjamin Linden: lol
* [10:24] Nock Forager: mine's win too.
* [10:24] Wyn Galbraith: is Wyn.
* [10:24] Daedalus Young: I'm Intel Mac
* [10:25] Benjamin Linden: I think we should import this anyway
* [10:25] Benjamin Linden: the interaction sounds really confusing
* [10:25] Benjamin Linden: even without the crashing
* [10:25] Torley Linden: *nods*
* [10:25] Torley Linden: OK, *imports*
* [10:25] Saijanai Kuhn: no problems
* [10:25] Benjamin Linden: torley, let's import it for rx triage
* [10:25] Benjamin Linden: thanks!
* [10:25] Saijanai Kuhn: I'm on RC though
* [10:26] McCabe Maxsted: hm, no one here's repro'd it. Same, Sai
* [10:26] Benjamin Linden: you mean the crash, Mccabe?
* [10:26] Torley Linden: Done.
* [10:26] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1803 - Gesture List seems to be resorted and redrawn excessively
* [10:26] McCabe Maxsted: yes
* [10:26] Torley Linden: I heard of VWR-1803 before.
* [10:26] Kooky Jetaime: It has a LLID on it...
* [10:27] Benjamin Linden: I'm less concerned about the crashing (which may be fixed) than the confusing commit model
* [10:27] Kooky Jetaime: I'll gladly trade out VWR-1803 with VWR-2650, also a gesture bug.
* [10:27] Kooky Jetaime: if 1803s a repeat in here
* [10:28] Torley Linden: Oh, I think I was already able to repro VWR-1803 -- I'm the one who imported it earlier.
* [10:28] Squirrel Wood: this seems to be not so much a gesture bug but a list sort bug
* [10:28] Kooky Jetaime: Http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2650 - Gestures with duplicate shortcuts execute randomly..
* [10:28] Saijanai Kuhn: heh. Its part of the whole GUI issue. IS the gesture list in folders or just a list?
* [10:29] Squirrel Wood: where one list element changes its contents and gets resorted using the default sort order
* [10:29] Kooky Jetaime: May or may not be related
* [10:29] Benjamin Linden: I'm confused by this
* [10:29] Torley Linden: The whole topic of "Gestures" is loaded with fragile subtleties and gotchas.
* [10:29] Benjamin Linden: what is the issue?
* [10:29] Squirrel Wood: 2650 seems to be intended as the voice gestures use the same mechanism
* [10:29] Benjamin Linden: I'm playing a gesture but the list isn't changing
* [10:29] Saijanai Kuhn: if its in folders, its a long-term fix. If its in a simple list, it might be much easier
* [10:29] Torley Linden: Ben: For VWR-1803, basically, the Gestures list scrolls when you don't want it to.
* [10:29] Nock Forager: it's like "Cloth" list...
* [10:29] Saijanai Kuhn: the folders class thing is in a half dozoen files 100 pages liong
* [10:30] Saijanai Kuhn: shudders at the memories
* [10:30] Kooky Jetaime: hehehe
* [10:30] Benjamin Linden: oh I see
* [10:30] Benjamin Linden: yeah that's annoying
* [10:30] Benjamin Linden: let's import
* [10:30] Benjamin Linden: agreed there are tons of gestures issues
* [10:30] Torley Linden: VWR-1803 was already imported earlier when I reproed it.
* [10:31] Torley Linden: So... we can move on to the next... !
* [10:31] Torley Linden: :)
* [10:31] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1820 - Map Search Results won't scroll using mouse scroll wheel
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: do we have a meta issue for gestures?
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: oops sorry, I got behind :-)
* [10:31] Kooky Jetaime: Good question, do we have a gesture meta issue?
* [10:31] Torley Linden: No prob... and not that I know of YET, Ben...
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: I think I created a meta issue on internal jira for gestures torley, but we can find it later
* [10:31] Torley Linden: I searched and couldn't find one.
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: hmm ok I swear I made one
* [10:31] Torley Linden: Oh, I meant externally.
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: I'll make a note to find it later
* [10:31] Torley Linden: We'll look for it later.
* [10:31] Torley Linden: :)
* [10:31] Daedalus Young: I got 1820 on Mac, but curious if it's OS independent
* [10:31] Benjamin Linden: ok
* [10:32] Torley Linden: *tries VWR-1820 repro*
* [10:32] Kooky Jetaime: VWR-1820 - The scroll wheel only works on the zoom in the map to me, doesn't work on the numeric text fields either
* [10:32] Torley Linden: Intriguing focus issue Daed... yeah, that scroll box should scroll, eh?
* [10:32] Torley Linden: I was able to repro it.
* [10:32] Saijanai Kuhn: heh. THought it wsa a zoom behavior in the first place.
* [10:32] Squirrel Wood: if there is only a horizontal scrollbar then using the mouse wheel will scroll that bar left/right.
* [10:33] Squirrel Wood: standard windows behavior
* [10:33] Daedalus Young: you would expect it to at least, yes
* [10:33] Torley Linden: Consistent with our windowing model...
* [10:33] Saijanai Kuhn: er which scroll bar?
* [10:33] Daedalus Young: in the search results box in the Map window
* [10:34] Kooky Jetaime: it feels like the scroll wheel is being trapped at the highest level of the window, instead of the element of it that has the focus.
* [10:34] Squirrel Wood: however, if both scrollbars are present, it scrolls up/down and left/right only if you have one of those mice that support left/right direction on the wheel
* [10:34] Benjamin Linden: yes, I agree this would be good to have
* [10:34] Torley Linden: So, it seems like in the current behavior, NO MATTER WHAT has focus in the World Map, scroll wheel always zooms the map.
* [10:34] Kooky Jetaime: Right Torley
* [10:34] Saijanai Kuhn: ahhh. yeah I find that annoying too
* [10:34] Benjamin Linden: right
* [10:34] Benjamin Linden: let's import this sucker
* [10:34] Squirrel Wood: Aye. always zooms
* [10:34] Kooky Jetaime: I like to scroll the x/y/z coordinates but have to use the arrows since the scroll is captured at the window level, not the control
* [10:34] McCabe Maxsted: yar
* [10:34] Torley Linden: I, too, feel it makes more sense (and is more consistent) if the list (with scrollbar) has focus, then mouse wheel should scroll that accordingly.
* [10:34] Torley Linden: *IMPORTS*
* [10:35] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1821 - Mac Mighty Mouse horizontal scroll translates to vertical scroll
* [10:35] Kooky Jetaime: Torley - Not just the list but any control that is "scrollable"
* [10:35] Benjamin Linden: I don't have a mac so I can't repro this one
* [10:35] Torley Linden: Kooky: To expand on what I meant, yes — I agree with that.
* [10:36] Kooky Jetaime: KJ
* [10:36] Daedalus Young: I don't know if this also happens with other mice with 2D scroll wheel
* [10:36] Daedalus Young: or other systems
* [10:36] Torley Linden: I've never used a Mighty Mouse... yet. Daed, that can't be fixed in the drivers (System Preferences)? There aren't any options that might correct that?
* [10:36] Daedalus Young: hmm, I'll check
* [10:37] Benjamin Linden: seems like it should just work
* [10:37] McCabe Maxsted: I'm assuming it scrolls other vertical windows fine, just gets confused?
* [10:37] Torley Linden: I would think so too but just checkin'.
* [10:38] Daedalus Young: I can use system prefs to only scroll vertically, that works, but vertical and horizontal, SL treats horizontal scroll as vertical
* [10:38] Benjamin Linden: we should probably go ahead and take this one and let QA pound on it
* [10:38] Daedalus Young: even hovering over horizontal scroll bar doesn't work, like it does in for example Gimp
* [10:38] Torley Linden: Hm, anyone else here have a mouse that can scroll horizontally too?
* [10:38] Torley Linden: Like some of those Microsoft ones?
* [10:39] Torley Linden: Good idea Ben...
* [10:39] Torley Linden: *imports*
* [10:39] McCabe Maxsted: wishes he were in QA to play with the mighty mouse
* [10:39] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-489 - Multiple attachments per attachment point
* [10:39] Torley Linden: Hehe McCabe.
* [10:39] Benjamin Linden: wow we finally made it to feature requests :-)
* [10:39] Kooky Jetaime: hahaha
* [10:39] Benjamin Linden: only because new bugs weren't added
* [10:39] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
* [10:39] Torley Linden: We're trekkin' on!
* [10:39] Kooky Jetaime: Don't worry ben, I got 2 bugs if we end early
* [10:39] Benjamin Linden: lol ok Kooky
* [10:39] Kooky Jetaime: I just feel weird adding my own stuff to the itin :)
* [10:40] Benjamin Linden: why? you shouldn't!
* [10:40] Torley Linden: I know VWR-489 has been wanted for ages, since an early dawn of the Feature Voting Tool...
* [10:40] Benjamin Linden: feel weird that is
* [10:40] McCabe Maxsted: the lack of enough attachment points has bothered me for a while; there's another jira for adding additional attachment points if multiple ones is too hard
* [10:40] Squirrel Wood: I'm all for more attach points
* [10:40] Torley Linden: We want you to always feel comfortable adding stuff Kooky! Since you'd want to bring it up anyway. :)
* [10:40] Wyn Galbraith: Can it be done?
* [10:40] Kooky Jetaime: Call it modesty Torly
* [10:40] Torley Linden: Wyn: Well, feasibility depends on implementation... as you can see from the comments, things can be awfully complex!
* [10:40] Kooky Jetaime: Torley.
* [10:41] Torley Linden: Kooky: Sounds like you need to buddy up with a friend who'll advocate for yer issues too. =)
* [10:41] Kooky Jetaime: And with Havoc4 isn't this something doable, after its up and stable?
* [10:41] Benjamin Linden: wow there is a lot of discussion in here
* [10:41] Kooky Jetaime: I think we've talked about Multiple attachments per point before, and one of the worries is limitinig attachmens
* [10:41] Kooky Jetaime: ments
* [10:41] Squirrel Wood: Humm. Mayhaps make attachment points flexible as in you choose where each one goes?
* [10:41] Kooky Jetaime: Such as you are allowed say, 20 attachments total, and can put them anywhere, all on 1, or 1 on each
* [10:42] Torley Linden: Also keep in mind that even with multiple attachment points, we wouldn't want to have "unlimited" attachments because that could easily be used to grief, or for someone new, they might unknowingly attach a lot of stuff that unnecessarily deteriorates their experience (to give 2 general possibilities).
* [10:42] Daedalus Young: ahh, I have to go again, dinner and everything
* [10:42] Torley Linden: Yeah, along the lines of what Kooky said.
* [10:42] Daedalus Young: see you guys later
* [10:42] Kooky Jetaime: GMTA Torley :)
* [10:42] Saijanai Kuhn: or, sull, sullA, skullb, all of which share the same coordinate
* [10:42] McCabe Maxsted: sort like having a vector system for attachments that you can move around your av
* [10:42] Torley Linden: OK Daed, great to see ya! Have a good one.
* [10:42] Benjamin Linden: see ya Daedalus
* [10:42] Torley Linden: Hehe, GMTA. =)
* [10:42] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming
* [10:42] Saijanai Kuhn: skull , skulla, skullb
* [10:42] Daedalus Young: thank you too :)
* [10:42] Daedalus Young: bye
* [10:42] Nock Forager: cha
* [10:42] Squirrel Wood: cyas
* [10:42] Torley Linden: remembers a time I attached like, 20 machine guns to myself, went into mouselook, and fired them all at once...
* [10:42] Kooky Jetaime: I think its a matter of what will Havoc allow us?
* [10:42] McCabe Maxsted: hahaha
* [10:43] Benjamin Linden: yeah, Sai, it seems like we could allow people just keep attaching things to the same point.
* [10:43] Squirrel Wood: grey goo ^^
* [10:43] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Torley
* [10:43] Benjamin Linden: it doesn't seem that confusing
* [10:43] Kooky Jetaime: Since isn't that the reason it is what it is now?
* [10:43] Benjamin Linden: although it might be hard to find a particular attachment and remove it
* [10:43] Turtle thinks: that that TOrley is strange
* [10:43] Torley Linden: glares at Turtle.
* [10:43] Saijanai Kuhn: agrees with Turtle --for once
* [10:43] Benjamin Linden: lol
* [10:43] Kooky Jetaime: Ben - not if you detach from inventory or the Edit / Detach
* [10:44] Saijanai Kuhn: clock show
* [10:44] McCabe Maxsted: it shouldn't be hard to find, really; just have + menu in the attachments menu for ones with multiple
* [10:44] Saijanai Kuhn: what time is it
* [10:44] McCabe Maxsted: click it and you can see all the attachments on that spot
* [10:44] Saijanai Kuhn: clock unmerge
* [10:44] Benjamin Linden: where is this menu, Mccabe?
* [10:44] Saijanai Kuhn: the right click equivalent of that?
* [10:44] Kooky Jetaime: Would this be another feature to put under an "Advanced" mode of SL? (VWR-2438)
* [10:44] Squirrel Wood: pie menu ?
* [10:44] McCabe Maxsted: edit, detach object
* [10:45] Saijanai Kuhn: clock merge
* [10:45] Kooky Jetaime: Keep it simple for new people and once you have your footing this is something you can open up?
* [10:45] McCabe Maxsted: was what i was thinking
* [10:45] McCabe Maxsted: right clicking really isn't an efficient way of detaching objects, people shouldn't do that
* [10:45] Kooky Jetaime: (Does Edit/Attach object ever do anything? Its always grey to me?)
* [10:45] Benjamin Linden: what do people think is a reasonable upper limit for attachments per point?
* [10:45] Benjamin Linden: 2? 3? 5?
* [10:46] Squirrel Wood: I wouldn't go above 3 per point
* [10:46] Kooky Jetaime: Ben - first what is a reasonable attach limit per avatar
* [10:46] Saijanai Kuhn: how about a total limit with a user-defined choice for where the extra go?
* [10:46] Benjamin Linden: the dancers always seem to end up here :-)
* [10:46] McCabe Maxsted: three sounds reasonable. Nekos could wear their tail/belt/holsters all at the same time
* [10:46] Torley Linden: I can't really see a need for more than, say, 3 or 4 either... if many more are needed, perhaps some content needs to be rethought, redesigned (e.g. linked).
* [10:46] Saijanai Kuhn: clock hide
* [10:46] Benjamin Linden: good point torley
* [10:46] Kooky Jetaime: and is it going to be an attachment limit or a prim limit
* [10:47] Kooky Jetaime: which has bigger impact?
* [10:47] Benjamin Linden: I guess I'm just not seeing what is complicated about using the same UI we have today to allow up to three attachments per point
* [10:47] Kooky Jetaime: I've seen AVI's with attachments numbering in the 800s
* [10:47] Saijanai Kuhn: contemplates Benjamin's outfit. What's on YOUR avatar
* [10:47] Kooky Jetaime: I have a friend with 3 pieces of jewelery that go over 1000 prims just with those 3
* [10:47] McCabe Maxsted: agrees with benjamin
* [10:47] Torley Linden: I have a Terminator avatar with over 1,000+ prims on it, I know some like Strife Onizuka have cyborgs with over 2,000+ prims but those are extreme.
* [10:47] Squirrel Wood: then maybe have up to 3 attachments or 500 prims per attach point ?
* [10:48] Benjamin Linden: hahaha awesome Torley, I want to see!
* [10:48] Benjamin Linden: but not here!
* [10:48] Torley Linden: =D
* [10:48] Benjamin Linden: :-)
* [10:48] Torley Linden: Hahahaha.
* [10:48] Saijanai Kuhn: an avatar based on Qarl's ant might have 75 prims. With sculpties, it seems over kill to go past that
* [10:48] Wyn Galbraith: Can you imagine what this is going to do.
* [10:48] Squirrel Wood: transformers avatar - a.k.a. walking lag
* [10:48] Benjamin Linden: Torley let's go ahead and import this and discuss it at an upcoming rx meeting
* [10:48] Kooky Jetaime: Any changes to attach points need to take into account these extreme prim things
* [10:48] Torley Linden: OK!
* [10:48] Torley Linden: *imports*
* [10:48] Kooky Jetaime: because we don't want to break anything existing
* [10:48] Benjamin Linden: I agree Kooky, we need to think about system performance
* [10:48] McCabe Maxsted: I think people will see prim limits for attachments in a very negative light
* [10:48] Kooky Jetaime: but we don't want someone walking around with 5K prims
* [10:48] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1481 - Option to enable/disable right to view/change sculpted prim image on moddable items
* [10:48] Saijanai Kuhn: like I said, a attachment max, with the extra slots assignable by the user
* [10:49] Benjamin Linden: the thing is, performance is already an issue with attachments
* [10:49] Benjamin Linden: it's sort of a separate problem
* [10:49] Torley Linden: Squirrel: Ah, that quagmire of an issue, I remember talking to Periapse and Qarl about it.
* [10:49] McCabe Maxsted: is there any range of prims that's been considered, then?
* [10:49] Squirrel Wood: avatar designers want people to be able to edit prim properties like size/scale but NOT the sculpt texture
* [10:50] Torley Linden: *nods*
* [10:50] Torley Linden: See Periapse's comment in there.
* [10:50] McCabe Maxsted: yes, I tried this as a test; it works
* [10:50] Squirrel Wood: because unless you use the alpha channel trick anyone can just screenshot the sculpt texture and reupload it at virtually no detail loss
* [10:51] Torley Linden: I don't think this is a critical issue because it doesn't appear to be time-sensitive, given the discussion.
* [10:51] Saijanai Kuhn: thre is a potential place where you WOULD want SOME indication of what you were looking at; animation textures. But those will be so large that you won't get much info from a scr4enshot
* [10:51] McCabe Maxsted: how about a watermark in the preview settings?
* [10:51] McCabe Maxsted: I mean, above the sculpt map
* [10:51] Benjamin Linden: I thought this was resolved because when you set an object to no-edit you can't see the texture?
* [10:51] Kooky Jetaime: thats the catch
* [10:52] Kooky Jetaime: people want to have modifyable non-takeable sculpties
* [10:52] McCabe Maxsted: yeah, especially for things like hair and attachments
* [10:52] Kooky Jetaime: I say close / won't fix.. this has been covered before, its all or nothing
* [10:52] McCabe Maxsted: doesn't make sense to have no mod hair
* [10:52] Torley Linden: Yeah — the ability to modify OTHER parameters but not view the sculpt map (so they could make additional copies)...
* [10:52] Torley Linden: tricky tricky.
* [10:52] Kooky Jetaime: unless we add a change bit to every single parameter on a prim
* [10:52] Nock Forager: ya. even sculpties, we need sizing permission at least.
* [10:52] Benjamin Linden: I see
* [10:53] Squirrel Wood: Lex Neva - 03/Jul/07 09:32 AM I'd say that the sculpt texture simply shouldn't be shown. The box can fill with an icon that's a visual indicator that a sculpt texture is present... or even a small thumbnail of the actual 3d mesh itself. [ Show » 
* [10:53] Kooky Jetaime: because thats what we're talking about doing, overhauling the permission system on prims to say , you can change this this and that but not this on a prim
* [10:53] Torley Linden: Beatfox didn't reply to that. We can close it as "Needs More Info"; I'm hesitant to say "Won't Fix" without further feedback, esp. from Periapse and Qarl.
* [10:53] McCabe Maxsted: how about instead of the sculpt texture being displayed, it does what image upload does and just displays the object the texture creates instead?
* [10:53] McCabe Maxsted: you can't copy it, and it'll always show you what the map is
* [10:53] Squirrel Wood: Basically if you are not the creator of the prim, just show a symbol instead of the texture
* [10:54] Torley Linden: McCabe: I would like a better preview for all objects. ;) Good idea tho, I'm not sure how hard that is to do.
* [10:54] McCabe Maxsted: well the code's already there for when you upload sculpty images
* [10:54] McCabe Maxsted: it seems like an easy solution that'd appease everyone
* [10:54] McCabe Maxsted: (plus look kinda cool)
* [10:54] Squirrel Wood: yep
* [10:55] Benjamin Linden: you mean show a 3d preview instead?
* [10:55] McCabe Maxsted: yeah
* [10:55] Squirrel Wood: Aye
* [10:55] McCabe Maxsted: instead of the sculpt map
* [10:55] Torley Linden: Would you want that preview to be animated? Like, free-rotate around?
* [10:55] Connecting to: in-world Voice Chat...
* [10:55] Connected undefined: 
* [10:55] Benjamin Linden: yeah that would be cool
* [10:55] Benjamin Linden: maybe someone could add that as a comment?
* [10:55] Torley Linden: I think it's a good idea to resolve this as "Needs More Info" for now since the original reporter hasn't replied yet.
* [10:55] Torley Linden: Along with additional comments.
* [10:55] McCabe Maxsted: that would be an awesome addition torley, but just having it preview would be nice
* [10:56] Torley Linden: McCabe: Yeah my only concern is, which angle it'd show it from... isometric view is a safer bet.
* [10:56] Torley Linden: Also, if anyone here didn't already know... we now have the ability to WATCH issues on the Issue Tracker! Which means that... YES, you can actively track issues you want to keep updated on.
* [10:56] Torley Linden: It's the "Watching" link section on the left. =)
* [10:57] McCabe Maxsted: WOOHOO
* [10:57] Kooky Jetaime: What about a 3-d preview with rotation ?
* [10:57] Benjamin Linden: oh I didn't know that, Torley, awesome!
* [10:57] Squirrel Wood: I believe we lost Ben ?
* [10:57] Benjamin Linden: so badly needed!
* [10:57] Torley Linden: It'll email you with updates...
* [10:57] Squirrel Wood: or not
* [10:57] McCabe Maxsted: I noticed that emails were finally working too :)
* [10:57] Wyn Galbraith: Promotes two issues of her own for comments etc; https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2366 & https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-631
* [10:57] Kooky Jetaime: now if we could only search issues we've commented on!
* [10:57] Benjamin Linden: Torley, I agree, let's go ahead and resolve this as needs more info
* [10:57] Benjamin Linden: esp since we're not doing any work on scuplties in the near future
* [10:57] McCabe Maxsted: but 3d preview rotation for both image upload and object textures would be a nice addition
* [10:57] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1607 - Ability to log out back to the welcome / log in screen instead of having to quit
* [10:57] Torley Linden: yeah, Rob Linden persisted and it finally got done. There is a caveat... if you update your email @ secondlife.com/account then it won't update your email addy right away in the Issue Tracker BUT we are planning to do scheduled manual sync-ups I think.
* [10:57] Torley Linden: K...
* [10:57] Torley Linden: *resolves*
* [10:58] Benjamin Linden: great thanks. ok folks, I don't think we have enough time to discuss another feature request so let's wrap up a little early today
* [10:58] Kooky Jetaime: promotes two of his bugs & one issue for comment: VWR-2650, VWR-2651, and VWR-2438 (And all sub tasks, linked, etc, including a new link to Ben's MISC-638)
* [10:58] Benjamin Linden: squirrel I'm going to vote for that one
* [10:58] McCabe Maxsted: aw, and I added a feature request and everything
* [10:58] Tree Kyomoon: Ive been working on trying to connect to agni from flash
* [10:58] Torley Linden: It's... as always... been fun. Please, do add these as appropriate to the agenda so we don't forget in the future!
* [10:58] Torley Linden: Tree: How are you doing that? :D
* [10:59] Tree Kyomoon: but so far no soap
* [10:59] Wyn Galbraith: looks at Kooky's issues.
* [10:59] Kooky Jetaime: off to Robins hippy circle
* [10:59] Tree Kyomoon: loadVars as a direct connection, posting the variables for login
* [10:59] Torley Linden: HAHA, hippy circle?!!?
* [10:59] Tree Kyomoon: as named value pairs
* [10:59] Kooky Jetaime: I think I've gotten both repro'ed
* [10:59] Torley Linden: Tree: Ooh. What are you trying to achieve with that?
* [10:59] Wyn Galbraith: is debating going to Robins or going to a speed build.
* [10:59] Wyn Galbraith: tough choices.
* [10:59] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-632 - Let resis edit Prim properties like Hovertext, particles, Status, etc in the edit window. (Are we out of time yet? ^^)
* [10:59] Tree Kyomoon: I want to login, and see what I can render for display
* [10:59] Torley Linden: hasn't done speed building in a long time.
* [10:59] Torley Linden: Tree: Ahs.
* [10:59] Tree Kyomoon: like chat, or objects
* [10:59] Kooky Jetaime: Wyn - some gestures to repro 2650
* [10:59] McCabe Maxsted: 
* [11:00] Benjamin Linden: ok folks I have to run. thanks again!
* [11:00] Kooky Jetaime: yes
* [11:00] Tree Kyomoon: but so far I cant get it to work
* [11:00] Kooky Jetaime: we are Squirrel
* [11:00] McCabe Maxsted: take care benjamin!
* [11:00] Squirrel Wood: aww
* [11:00] Squirrel Wood: Have fun Ben ^^
* [11:00] Torley Linden: Kk me too! Have fun folks!
* [11:00] Tree Kyomoon: I did manage to login to the secondlife website via flash though
* [11:00] Nock Forager: kk See you around.