Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-03-01

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on March 1st, 2012
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server Channel
* This received the voice bugfixes that were in BlueSteel and LeTigre last week
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/12#12.02.24.250006
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This channel has miscellaneous bug fixes.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.02.24.249991
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This code is identical to the code on BlueSteel.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.02.24.249991
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is the threaded region crossing code.
* Now with LESS ghosting!
** Properly merged with trunk.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.02.28.250112
* Possible pending changes to llRequestAgentData
** There are some possible changes to enhance privacy in-world
** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4823?focusedCommentId=313055&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-313055
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
=== Interesting Stuff ===
=== Any Other Items ===
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar LindenMaestro Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for March 1, 2012:
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: isn't he too young to need recovery:)
* [15:04] Johan Laurasia: heh
* [15:04] Marigold Devin: Isn't he too young to drink at 9
* [15:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Hey Maestro.
* [15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): hi guys
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: hi maestro
* [15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oskar's on vacation today
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: hey Maestro :p
* [15:04] Johan Laurasia: Hey Maestro
* [15:04] Theresa Tennyson: Maestro heard us talking about the "hot seat."
* [15:05] F L I P (flip.idlemind): One birthday every 4 years, I guess you gotta make it count
* [15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, definitely
* [15:05] Lares Carter: Hi Maestro
* [15:05] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): sometimes it smore than 4 years
* [15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oh my, the wiki page is out of date
* [15:05] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): leapyear doesnt happen *every* 4 years, theres times where its skiped
* [15:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Not in out lifetimes (more than 4 years)
* [15:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 2100 is th next
* [15:06] Johan Laurasia: no, it's 2400
* [15:06] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): wasnt it skiped in 199something?
* [15:06] Johan Laurasia: its in years evenly divisible by 400
* [15:07] Latif Khalifa: was 2000 a leap year?
* [15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yep, 2000 was
* [15:07] Johan Laurasia: no, it wasnt
* [15:07] Johan Laurasia: there was no Feb 29th in the year 2000
* [15:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yes 2000 was
* [15:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): sighs
* [15:07] Johan Laurasia: 2000 is evenly divisible by 400, hence, the leap year is sipped
* [15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): $ cal 2 2000 
 February 2000 
 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
 1 2 3 4 5
 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
 27 28 29
* [15:08] Johan Laurasia: Well, I lived it, and there was no leap year that year
* [15:08] Latif Khalifa: Johan, I think it's the other way around
* [15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I believe there was no leap year in 1900 and won't be in 2100, but 2000 was a special case
* [15:08] arton Rotaru: george bush had even a february the 30.^^
* [15:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): hence the leap year is kept, dicisable by 100 but not 400
* [15:08] Johan Laurasia: regardless of calendars, most were misprinted since ppl forget every 400 years a leap year is skipped
* [15:08] Nal (nalates.urriah): Enough with the calendar math
* [15:08] Kris Spade: All I can say about leap year, is that it sucks for people on pay period 1-15 and 16-END
* [15:08] Johan Laurasia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_year
* [15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So, I've updated the updates section
* [15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we've had some minor changes to the server this week
* [15:09] Latif Khalifa: Johan, i think 100s are not leap years except if it's 400, so 1700, 1800, and 1900 were not, but 2000 is and 2400 will be
* [15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that RC with the voice bugfixes got promoted to the main channel
* [15:09] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): http://www.acornnmr.com/leapyear.htm
* [15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the region crossing stuff on Magnum is still there, with some bugfixes
* [15:09] Johan Laurasia: right, every 400 years
* [15:09] Johan Laurasia: years evenly divisible by 400
* [15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the new project is from a maint-server branch
* [15:09] Marigold Devin: Region crossings - goes to read on that bit
* [15:10] Leeoh (raven.juno): Shaddup ans listen to Maestro :U
* [15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I've been pretty heads-down in pathfinding stuff, so I don't know the details of the maint-server
* [15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Simon, any highlights in that release?
* [15:10] Rex Cronon: well this talk about leap years is interesting, but right now i am more interested ot know why i can't search for people on this grid
* [15:11] Simon Linden: Hmm, it's almost all internal bug fixes. There was one visible change, however, I'll look that up...
* [15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Rex, do you mean the main search floater isn't working, or the search in the people picker?
* [15:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Because there is ar no prsence servers?
* [15:11] Rex Cronon: i am using 1.23 and the search on people tab
* [15:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): is/are*
* [15:12] Simon Linden: Right - the throttle on llGiveInventory has been eased. It will be 2x the previous limit
* [15:12] Kris Spade: What was the previous limit?
* [15:12] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 2500 hr, now its 2500 /30min ???
* [15:12] Rex Cronon: ok. on the all tabs i can search for people
* [15:12] Simon Linden: It was 2500 events per 30 minutes, now it's 2500 per 15 minutes
* [15:13] Nal (nalates.urriah): No 2500/15 min
* [15:13] Kris Spade: Nice!
* [15:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): ahhhh Ordr of mgnitude
* [15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Binary order of magnitude
* [15:13] SonicAnd Miles: cool
* [15:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): yah
* [15:13] Simon Linden: That's a little more forgiving on a usage spike rather than doing 5000 / 30 minutes
* [15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, and I guess there were a bunch of server crash fixes in that release, which are always nice to have...
* [15:14] Simon Linden: All the other changes were internal bug fixes and cleanup work, so not visible (hopefully) normally
* [15:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I presume that all are aware that there is a secret patch that removes the uuid from the protection layer os the viewers can't generate Viewer tags?
* [15:15] Kris Spade: Let us know when we can open up Q&A if there are no juicey improvements/fixes this week :PMaestro Linden
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: afk
* [15:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): so if people start whining tell that it's a feature.
* [15:15] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): its not so secret
* [15:15] Johan Laurasia: Kalli just spilled the beans
* [15:16] Simon Linden: DO you mean the AgentAppearnace message texture fields, Kallista?
* [15:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): it's not in the release notes. that makes it sekrit.
* [15:16] Kris Spade: hehe
* [15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I guess so
* [15:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): What ever it is that viewers use ot generaye tags
* [15:16] Marigold Devin: I know it's no coincidence that my online tracker isn't working quite the same since last deploy
* [15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I believe Oz had a meeting today at 2pm about that...
* [15:16] Homeless Resident (homeless): what are viewer tags for?
* [15:17] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): it was a 1 and that wasnt discussed
* [15:17] Nal (nalates.urriah): They which viewer someone is using
* [15:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): It would have been classier to actually put it in the release notes.
* [15:17] Marigold Devin: Viewer tags were useful if I was helping someone in world, so I didn't look quite so noob to a V3 user.
* [15:17] Ash Weststar (ash.qin): Homeless, they are for identifying what UUID people are using in clothing protection layetrs
* [15:17] Simon Linden: That was turned on this week Tuesday and Wednesday
* [15:18] Ash Weststar (ash.qin): What release cycle system was it deployed on? I didn't see it going through the regular channels
* [15:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): exactly. Now I have no problm with the Labs real and expressed rationals, but really Sekrit changes?
* [15:18] Johan Laurasia: Asking someone what viewer they're using = useful.
* [15:18] Simon Linden: Sure, go ahead and ask them.
* [15:19] Simon Linden: But it's not something that should be an opt-out regular broadcast
* [15:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): It didn't go through any visible channels.
* [15:19] Marigold Devin: (they'll all be on V3 anyway soon, whispered Simon) lol
* [15:19] Johan Laurasia: why not a switch
* [15:19] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it was never opt out, you always had an option to not show it
* [15:19] Simon Linden: darn, Marigold figured out our secret plans!
* [15:19] Johan Laurasia: if I want to show what viewer I'm using, I can, if not, I flip it off
* [15:19] Whirly Fizzle: Opt in would have been nice
* [15:19] Marigold Devin: ha.ha.ha. (but smiling in RL)
* [15:19] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): siman, actually we didnt even have an opt out.. was on and that was it
* [15:20] Johan Laurasia: it can be set to off for default
* [15:20] Whirly Fizzle: Shame it broke coloured tags too
* [15:20] Homeless Resident (homeless): Where do you turnit on or off?
* [15:20] Kris Spade: Well perhaps we can offer colored tags as a "new feature" in SNowstorm and users having the same "in world experience" :P
* [15:20] F L I P (flip.idlemind): My viewer now has "Pretty Tags", just adds a random color to everyone's nametag
* [15:21] Whirly Fizzle: o.O
* [15:21] Johan Laurasia: I'm proposing that a switch be implemented
* [15:21] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): silly flip
* [15:21] Whirly Fizzle: I coloured them again with contact sets :D
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: not silly, it's pretty boring with all the same tags now :P
* [15:21] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): true, latif
* [15:22] Nal (nalates.urriah): There are things to look at other than the tags...
* [15:22] Johan Laurasia: hover text like Kallista has on is an option too
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: in a meeting like this, they're prominent
* [15:22] Homeless Resident (homeless): I set the tags to only display briefly to get rid of them....
* [15:23] Marigold Devin: Four minutes since a Linden spoke, Marigold began to wonder if they would turn the world black and white and remove all the colour
* [15:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ash please quit running around.
* [15:23] Marigold Devin: Oh I like Ash running around. I got them in alt view
* [15:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): We scared them off?
* [15:24] Marigold Devin: We may have scared them off kallista, yup
* [15:24] Kris Spade: hehe
* [15:24] Simon Linden: On a different note, there is a new forum set up centered around the Server User Group. I know a lot of you attend those as well
* [15:24] Simon Linden: It's at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Simulator-Discussion-Group/ct-p/engine_room
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: pls add me simon
* [15:24] Leeoh (raven.juno): Please* >_>
* [15:24] Simon Linden: Right - you have to log in and have the proper role to get access
* [15:25] Simon Linden: I'll give access to anyone if you send me an IM and are usually sane.
* [15:25] Kris Spade: Well as an interesting topic. Does anybody know when the new LR functions llTeleportAgent and llAttachToAvatarTemp will be hitting beta?
* [15:25] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:25] Marigold Devin: That rules me out completely.
* [15:25] SonicAnd Miles: lol
* [15:25] Moundsa Mayo: Rats! I can't join, then.
* [15:25] Marigold Devin: It will be the smallest group ever in SL !
* [15:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): We're all a bit dotty here
* [15:25] Nal (nalates.urriah): Charlar opened a new group for it. But, I haven't heard much more.
* [15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Kris, I don't believe any date has been set for that
* [15:25] Rex Cronon: back
* [15:25] Larre Leborski: Indeed... I am probably the most sane :-)
* [15:26] Kris Spade: Ah ok, 2 weeks ago CHarlar said about a week, so I was curious :PMaestro Linden
* [15:26] Marigold Devin: Indeed, Larre, I believe you are. Most logical and sane.
* [15:26] Homeless Resident (homeless): Depends on how you define sanity...
* [15:26] Simon Linden: Arton and Leeoh, you've been added
* [15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Maybe Charlar knows more than me.. go ask him :)
* [15:26] Leeoh (raven.juno): whoot \o/
* [15:26] Moundsa Mayo: You mean sanity is a definition, not a fact?!!
* [15:27] Larre Leborski: but cannot get to IM Simon yet tho.
* [15:27] arton Rotaru: thx alot Simon!
* [15:27] Fancy Greeter: Falcon Linden has arrived!
* [15:27] Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar): im loged in but i can not see that fourm
* [15:27] Larre Leborski: whispers: Hi Falcon :-)
* [15:28] Larre Leborski: woops.. a whispwer..
* [15:28] Nal (nalates.urriah): Simon, I could get into the simulator gruop a couple of days ago, now I can't even read it.... whatsup?
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: I'm in and I see the topics. :)
* [15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Falcon's trying to fix some pathfinding bug
* [15:28] Simon Linden: I have no idea, Nal - I'll check your role
* [15:29] Nal (nalates.urriah): nvr mind not logged in... doh!
* [15:29] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): the bugs not finding the proper path?
* [15:29] Simon Linden: Please send this stuff via IMs - I can close them as I do them and I may miss a request coming by in local chat
* [15:29] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it was about the nav mesh generation on a specific sim version
* [15:29] Simon Linden: I have one more thing ... llRequestAgentData() and the online status
* [15:29] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if you have a big platform or something and generate the nav mesh, the nav mesh would only appear around the edges
* [15:29] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): this just popped up in a new build today
* [15:29] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, go for it, simon
* [15:30] Johan Laurasia: what's the story on DATA_ONLINE
* [15:30] Simon Linden: We had announce that the online status was going to be blocked, except for some special cases, and much discussion ensued (!)
* [15:30] Simon Linden: Oz commented yesterday on that: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4823?focusedCommentId=313055&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-313055
* [15:30] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-4823] Restrict LSL's avatar online status checking to respect avatar's privacy setting https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4823
* [15:30] Simon Linden: We're not shutting off that functionality until we can sort out a good alternative
* [15:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Nice understatement , much dicussion.
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: Good. The Jira was started by someone who attracts griefers by the sound of it. They'll still get griefed even if the function to see online gets stopped. True stalkers always find a way.
* [15:31] Simon Linden: It still is a privacy concern ... the online monitors you can get in the marketplace, for example, are definitely over the line in that regard.
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: if allow users to be able to hide/show their online status...
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: It depends what you use them for.
* [15:31] Simon Linden: But there are also very good uses for that function, so we need to sort out how to off those without the blanket access
* [15:31] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): we have already pulled true online from the ext phoenix release
* [15:32] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): next*
* [15:32] Simon Linden: I'm not making any promises, but some sort of opt-in functionality makes sense here
* [15:32] Marigold Devin: And anyone found to be using them for dastardly deeds should just lose their account
* [15:32] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it does
* [15:32] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I'm afraid that your going to have to bite the bulet and put the hideme bit in the online status data.
* [15:32] Marigold Devin: Anyway, a very emotive subject, certainly on the JIRA
* [15:32] Johan Laurasia: Simon, you do mean on a per object basis, right?
* [15:32] Latif Khalifa: there is already functionality that lets you pick if you want your online status to be known
* [15:33] Latif Khalifa: used to be "Show my online status only to my friends" or some such in the prefs
* [15:33] F L I P (flip.idlemind): As far as Im concerned there's no reasonable expectation of online-status privacy in an open world where you could potentially be physically standing in front of any given person
* [15:33] Marigold Devin: I don't give two hoots who can see me online. Why worry? No one is obliged to be in when anyone calls.
* [15:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): yes but the 'cost' of querin that his high, according to OZ last week.
* [15:33] Simon Linden: Johan - that makes sense. I mean, if I wanted to have a poster up that showed my online status, that seems fine, but doing that shouldn't open anyone to my status
* [15:33] Marigold Devin: After all these years of being able to see true online.
* [15:34] Simon Linden: Again, I'm blowing smoke here -- the final way this works hasn't been sorted out
* [15:34] Marigold Devin: What an antisocial bunch of inglourious basterds
* [15:34] Johan Laurasia: well, that way, someone can opt into an object that might want to send an update, yet keep Joe Griefer from polling same key's online status
* [15:34] Whirly Fizzle: lol just IM them, you know if theyre really online or not ;)
* [15:35] Simon Linden: Right, that would be good, Johan
* [15:35] Kris Spade: I can see removing the viewer tags thing, but err, the online status thing will seem to break a lot of existing products in SL. It should be a switch you can "turn off" for your avatar, but to break hundreds or thousands of products for a forthstanding function that has been in SL forever seems a bit hastey :PMaestro Linden
* [15:35] Johan Laurasia: Whirly, scripts can't determine weather the user is online or not that way
* [15:35] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it could be a permission, but i think the most sense would be to add something to the privacy section of web profiles so you can just turn it on and off, for yourself, and others, possibly even friends
* [15:36] Rex Cronon: wait a sec. if u login. and go here"http://community.secondlife.com/t5/user/myprofilepage/tab/user-preferences%3Aprivacy" u can set the visibility of your online status
* [15:36] Marigold Devin: /me agrees with Draconis. Something like they have on the my second life feed. Block all
* [15:36] Johan Laurasia: but... at the same time, joe griefer can IM said person manually with, say, an alt, to determine online status
* [15:36] Johan Laurasia: the difference is the avatar will know they're being sniffed out
* [15:36] Rex Cronon: why not use that
* [15:36] Chieron Tenk: permissions wouldnt help in many cases, we are talking about more than one avatar per script (vendor case)
* [15:36] Marigold Devin: But if Joe Griefer does, then what does it matter? Really?
* [15:36] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived!
* [15:36] Simon Linden: Rex - that doesn't affect the LSL function
* [15:36] Marigold Devin: What harm can Joe Griefer do? If Joe Griefer gets ignored - and there's the issue - people respond to griefers and feed their souls !!!!
* [15:36] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi Kelly!
* [15:36] F L I P (flip.idlemind): I remember, once, a Linden mentioning an unofficial "do not break" list; I feel like online status should be on it
* [15:36] Marigold Devin: *growls*
* [15:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Chieron, it would be per call, and hopefully thet permision to see would be cached.
* [15:37] Kris Spade: /me wonders why the Griefer surname was never added in the past. :PMaestro Linden
* [15:37] Johan Laurasia: Chieron, the script would use the same function that's there, it's just a permission has to be set by the avatar, say, when they make the purchase, and, at the same time give that device permission to track.
* [15:37] Johan Laurasia: that would have to be a saved state too.
* [15:37] Marigold Devin: Hahaha - because Spitteler was used instead. (in joke)
* [15:37] SonicAnd Miles: XD
* [15:37] Chieron Tenk: if it could be cached, it would be ok then.
* [15:37] Rex Cronon: can't the lsl function query that info?
* [15:38] arton Rotaru: I never used DATA_ONLINE in a product, because I expected it to break sooner or later :p
* [15:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ummmmmm the delivery device may not necesarally be the device that atually does the sale.
* [15:38] Chieron Tenk: that could still be a costly function, once the list of perms for that particular script gets long
* [15:38] Johan Laurasia: true Kallista
* [15:38] Chieron Tenk: and that too, kallista
* [15:38] Johan Laurasia: you would have to have the object available for them to "sign in" to be able to receive updates.
* [15:38] Marigold Devin: At the end of the day, if requesting online status causes load issues then of course it has to be considered. But just to stop people being 'griefed' in a virtual world, where they don't know and can't get your real identity and therefore undermine your RL - what's the problem?
* [15:39] Kris Spade: I think a simple solution, would be to create some sort of thing, that IM clients have been doing for ages. Set your visibility preferences as a toggle.
* [15:39] Johan Laurasia: Your SL existance Marigold
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: I've been in SL for over 4 years and only got griefed once, and that was because Ipoked the biatch with a stick when I should have known better.
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: And look - here I am in RL in one piece still.
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: Sick of the paranoia.
* [15:40] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So have any of you had more time to play with received items or pathfinding?
* [15:40] Rex Cronon: marigold. how much time did u spend in public sandboxes?
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: Plenty Rex.
* [15:40] Johan Laurasia: well, I've been around over 5, and i those 5+ years, Pulbic Linden Sandboxes on Agni seem to be home central to griefers
* [15:40] Theresa Tennyson: What viewer do you use for recieved items? I've failed at finding it.
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: But then I found private sandboxes.
* [15:40] Johan Laurasia: probably the most consistant thing in SL.
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: Yes, Yohan, they do.
* [15:41] Kris Spade: Yeah I am not seeing the received items folder myself.
* [15:41] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The release viewer supports it, Theresa
* [15:41] Marigold Devin: And that's a whole other issue - the griefers at the Gov Linden owned places. All these need some kind of policiing IMO
* [15:41] Kris Spade: It is a viewer specific thing?
* [15:41] Moundsa Mayo: No, Maestro - the SLRR test regions were never returned to a usable state, and weren't included in teh pathfinding release, anyway.
* [15:41] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, the release viewer has special UI for that folder
* [15:41] Johan Laurasia: yeah, abandoned land should auto turn off build and object entry and return all objects
* [15:41] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): also anywhere whre lots of pople gather seems to b a target for griefers, also Gorian regions for some reason.
* [15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I believe in older viewers, it appears as another system folder
* [15:42] Kris Spade: So that functionality won't exist in TPVs unless they adapt?
* [15:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): so if you have a lot of peopl on a goran region ...
* [15:42] Marigold Devin: But the problem is, people feed these griefers, give them attention, instead of muting/blocking and ARing.
* [15:42] Kris Spade: Any idea what that system folder is called?
* [15:42] Johan Laurasia: correct Kris
* [15:42] Homeless Resident (homeless): Guess that's why I never get griefed... I avoid the public sandboxes like the plague. The premium account sandboxes are nice though.
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: Received Items^^
* [15:42] Whirly Fizzle: Received items
* [15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Moundsa: yeah, right now pathfinding is only in the 4 pathtest regions
* [15:42] Marigold Devin: Goreans - it happens because some of them get the wrong idea how to be Gorean and cause the grief.
* [15:42] Johan Laurasia: outbox or somethingn like that
* [15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, there are a few other regions.. but they aren't very rez-friendly
* [15:42] Marigold Devin: The premium sandboxes are fab, aren't they, Homeless? Fab.
* [15:42] Whirly Fizzle: On V3 release I had a system folder in recent items plus the new big folder at the bottom
* [15:43] Moundsa Mayo: I assumed no SLRR trck is there, but I didn't actually check.
* [15:43] Leeoh (raven.juno): Remove the letter W. It is a sin
* [15:43] Homeless Resident (homeless): You said it Marigold! They are priceless!
* [15:43] Theresa Tennyson: Would it be in the beta too?
* [15:43] Marigold Devin: That was one of the better ideas by LL recently.
* [15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I'm not sure if pathfinding would be ideal for trains, unless you're comfortable with them jumping the track
* [15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Im glad they decided not to sent other stuff to received items. That would have been a nightmare. Having it only for marketplace though, I like that
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: Yeah, and the group abilities were key to keeping stuff off the tracks, so it's a no-go in apor and Rosedale any more. NP.
* [15:44] Kris Spade: Oh it's only for marketplace?
* [15:45] Kris Spade: THat's a bit inconsistant
* [15:45] Kris Spade: :PMaestro Linden
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: yes Kris
* [15:45] Whirly Fizzle: As far as I know now. I may be wrong though
* [15:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): YEs as of yesterday
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: instead of a magic box
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: you drop a folder into the outbox
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: it disappears from the outbox
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: I took only a quick look on pathfinding so far. But it looks like there are still missing some bits, like CHARACTER_MAX_ANGULAR_SPEED ?
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: and is available on the marketplace for you to vend
* [15:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Officiall in the Forum
* [15:45] Theresa Tennyson: Inconsistent but attracting less wrassling, Kris.
* [15:45] Johan Laurasia: and any purchased items will go to a market specific received item folder
* [15:45] Moundsa Mayo: Was intending to checkout pathfinding for docking train ferries to load rolling stock (and for mooring airships)
* [15:45] Chieron Tenk: received items was funny with stuff like textures before there was anything in the texture folder.. you could not create a texture folder until you uploaded stuff (that was a weird sideeffect found in testing)
* [15:46] Kris Spade: I would be happy to adapt to a "Recent Items" folder for all received inventory, but if it's for marketplace items only, might as well call it "Marketplace Purchases" folder :PMaestro Linden
* [15:46] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm is there a debug on V3 to inhide empty system folders?
* [15:46] Whirly Fizzle: *unhide
* [15:46] Theresa Tennyson: I haven't bought anything on Marketplace for a few days.
* [15:47] DebugHideEmptySystemFolders
* [15:47] Whirly Fizzle: ahh cool.
* [15:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Kriss they had planned to send returned items there.
* [15:47] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): You need to relog after changing it.
* [15:47] Simon Linden: Kris - the intention was for everything new, I believe. So stuff from scripts, person-to-person tranfers, etc
* [15:47] Whirly Fizzle: yep yep. Wasnt sure if it was a fotestorm thing only
* [15:47] Simon Linden: as well as Marketplace
* [15:47] Whirly Fizzle: *Firestorm
* [15:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): EVERYTHING.....
* [15:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): on and the sort is fixed and alphabetic (I believe)./
* [15:48] Whirly Fizzle: Ugh...Id have hated that behaviour
* [15:48] Theresa Tennyson: It would be nice if it was for anything purchased ANYWHERE too.
* [15:48] Kris Spade: @Simon: Well I hope that is the new behavior. It would be more consistant.
* [15:48] Johan Laurasia: good idea Theresa
* [15:48] Kris Spade: If it's just for marketplace, I think it would be more confusing
* [15:48] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, anything purchased would be Okay. Not things returned or picked up though
* [15:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Hod do you tell the difference between a purchas and a say 'Welcome to our rgion, here are the rules"?
* [15:48] Chieron Tenk: true, whirly
* [15:49] Chieron Tenk: received is received.
* [15:49] Chieron Tenk: picking up something doesnt make me receive it in my view
* [15:49] Johan Laurasia: @Kallista... the context of the message I would presume
* [15:50] Theresa Tennyson: You usually have to either hit "buy" or "pay" to make a purchase, even if it's free.
* [15:50] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, is there a wiki page or something that describes received items behavior in detail?
* [15:50] Kris Spade: Yeah returned, or "picked up" objects should put them back in their previous spot in inv. But if anything "new" comes your way ... even outside of Marketplace, I think Recent Items is good. You can choose to manually move it to the root inventory tree if it's useful.
* [15:50] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I can't seem to find one right now.
* [15:50] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): no how does the viewer/server tell the difference.
* [15:50] Johan Laurasia: the message type I'd guess
* [15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oh yes, here we go:
* [15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Received-items-Beta-feature/ta-p/1393755
* [15:51] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Kris, I might be a good idea to ready the Blog entiy
* [15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 'If you are using a third-party viewer, the Received items pane appears as a system folder in your inventory called "Received Items".'
* [15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Examples of what goes into Received items
 Anything new to your inventory that you Take or Take Copy.
 Anything you rezzed in someone else's parcel and they have Returned.
 Inventory offers from other users.
 Inventory from scripted objects.
 Marketplace purchased items.
* [15:51] Whirly Fizzle: Firtestorm has the option of the large bottom folder too. You can enable/disable in debug. Its not working well though
* [15:51] Kris Spade: Using a TPV, and not seeing the folder. Is it only created if I get a new object on Aditi? If so, can someone send me something? :P
* [15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ^ so no, that was misinformation from somebody earlier.
* [15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): recieved items includes way more than marketplace purchases
* [15:52] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Kris, only it the specifice regions.
* [15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I grabbed that info from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ReceivedItemsBetaTesting
* [15:52] Kris Spade: Oh ok, I'll checkout the site and test it on the supported regions.
* [15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Kris, check out the regions from my above URL
* [15:52] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there are some Aditi regions you can test on
* [15:52] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I saw it on the forum earlier . Ill try to find again
* [15:53] Johan Laurasia: is this in a specific beta version?
* [15:53] Kris Spade: I assume you can move objects from main inventory to the new Recent Items folder?
* [15:53] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:53] Theresa Tennyson: I went to those areas and clicked on the boxes and got no "recieved items" folder. They went into regular inventory.
* [15:54] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yep, those test regions are running a specific server version, Johan
* [15:54] Kris Spade: If this is the new behavior I'd want to move "everything" in my objects folder and all non-default root folders from my inv, in this folder.
* [15:54] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): That might be a bug!
* [15:54] Simon Linden: Kris - I'm not sure about that. I think the idea was that you'd be sorting Recent Items and removing stuff from there
* [15:54] Larre Leborski: Hi Keppey :-)
* [15:54] Whirly Fizzle: Yes, its here from Commerce Linden
* [15:54] Larre Leborski: *Kelly
* [15:54] Whirly Fizzle: We apologize for the confusion about what will be launching. Here is a clarification:
 
 Direct Delivery will launch with all Direct Delivery purchases going to the Received Items folder.
 We will be speaking with Residents to get feedback before we release any ADDITIONAL changes that result in objects being sent to the Received Items folder.
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: I believ only 2 of the 4 regions have RI enabled actually
* [15:55] Whirly Fizzle: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Try-out-the-new-Received-Items-Beta/td-p/1397409/highlight/true/page/22
* [15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): hm, GC Test 2, 3, 8, and 9 all have the same server version. But I believe there's a configuration switch for enabling RI, and maybe 2 of those regions are configured to have RI disabled
* [15:56] Simon Linden: Whirly - that's a good point. I'm out of that loop, but I heard they were taking another look at the design of "Recieved Items"
* [15:56] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): does anyone else see their balance as 20L?
* [15:56] Chieron Tenk: oh, yes, draconis
* [15:56] Johan Laurasia: we been robbed!
* [15:56] Simon Linden: OK ... last call. If you need access to http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Simulator-Discussion-Group/ct-p/engine_room please send me an IM
* [15:56] Theresa Tennyson: Click your money, Draconis. That should reset it.
* [15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Nope, I'm rich
* [15:56] Kris Spade: I assume something like the Outfits folder will link items to the Recent Items folder? If so, what is the incentive for people to drag stuff from Recent Items to main inventory folders? Seems like it will just be a new way to not clog root inventory, but will end up being the same thing anyway.
* [15:56] Larre Leborski: I don't see any balance at all.
* [15:57] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it is not resetting for me
* [15:57] Homeless Resident (homeless): I wish they'd make that like Outlook Express, you can configure it to behave as you like
* [15:57] Chieron Tenk: neither for me..
* [15:57] Larre Leborski: it just says :loading:.
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: also loading
* [15:57] Chieron Tenk: you stole my toy money!
* [15:57] Johan Laurasia: Great idea Homeless
* [15:57] Moundsa Mayo: L$63,690
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: how many billions do i have that it takes so long to load them:)
* [15:57] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): just updated
* [15:57] Johan Laurasia: mine's showing $20L
* [15:57] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): weird
* [15:57] arton Rotaru: 284k ^^
* [15:57] Johan Laurasia: a relog will fix it
* [15:57] Theresa Tennyson: I've got my moneys too.
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: I got all your money :p
* [15:58] Whirly Fizzle: Theres a survey you can fill in at the bottom of http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Inworld/Received-Items-Beta-Launch/ba-p/1397377 to volunteer to give feedback on whether you want things apart from MP purchases going to received items
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: user groups cost to attend now....lol
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: ah
* [15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Johan, I just gave you L$1 - are you at L$21 now?
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: mine's updated now
* [15:58] Simon Linden: Great idea, Johan!
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: left click it and wait
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: it'll update
* [15:58] Johan Laurasia: heh
* [15:58] Leeoh (raven.juno): I has 20 L :<
* [15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Thanks for finding that, Whirly
* [15:59] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. I will probably change my password again here soon.. get a fresh update to inventory in here.
* [15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Ok, we're just about out of time
* [15:59] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): out of curiousity is the login message ever going to change from display names are enabled for aditi?
* [16:00] Marigold Devin: Wow that passed quickly
* [16:00] arton Rotaru: lol
* [16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Some day, draconis..
* [16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Although that's technically true. We do have DN enabled on Aditi :P
* [16:00] Leeoh (raven.juno): make it "Welcome to the beta grid. Please forward all donations to leeoh" :3
* [16:00] arton Rotaru: when display names are removed :p
* [16:00] Larre Leborski: Indeed it did Marigold.
* [16:00] Homeless Resident (homeless): Some day long after display names are obsolete
* [16:00] Whirly Fizzle: Does CTRL+ALT+B not refresh balance on V3?
* [16:00] Simon Linden: "Mesh is now enabled"
* [16:00] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [16:00] Leeoh (raven.juno): "Dont touch the hat" xDD
* [16:01] Johan Laurasia: yeah, the MOTD is quite stale
* [16:01] Johan Laurasia: can we do something about that....lol
* [16:01] Homeless Resident (homeless): how about "teleport is now enabled"
* [16:01] Latif Khalifa: that sci-fi :P
* [16:01] Johan Laurasia: Logging in is now enabled
* [16:01] Theresa Tennyson: No it isn't, Homeless - I just tried...
* [16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oskar has made some attempts to have it updated, but the MOTD lords are reluctant to give him access :)
* [16:01] Larre Leborski: Lolz!!
* [16:02] Homeless Resident (homeless): lol
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: thx for the meeting, see U next week
* [16:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): /me chuckles
* [16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Alright guys, thanks for coming!
* [16:02] Homeless Resident (homeless): tc everyone!
* [16:02] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
* [16:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): thanks Maestor and Simon
* [16:02] SonicAnd Miles: c-ya :D
* [16:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day
* [16:02] Rex Cronon: bye
* [16:02] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. Thank you so much Maestro :-)
* [16:02] Marigold Devin: Thanks for a great meeting
* [16:02] Johan Laurasia: Thanks guyes
* [16:02] Johan Laurasia: guys*
* [16:02] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): thanks maestro and simon
* [16:02] Leeoh (raven.juno): You can't make me leave :< I will sit here and have a meeting with myself for as long as I want!! D:
* [16:02] Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting.
* [16:02] Johan Laurasia: "Leeoh Meeting" has now begun
* [16:02] Marigold Devin: See y'all next week