Bug triage/2009-10-12/Transcript

* [12:06] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11482 - Blured Nametag visible in snapshots when in front of glow, even if show GUI in snapshots is disabled. 
* [12:06] Soft Linden: Salut!
* [12:06] xstorm Radek: im trying out human form
* [12:07] Harleen Gretzky: Hi all 
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: I tried this this morning and couldn't repro on my snowglobe version
* [12:07] Jumpman Lane: i learned to shoot pics from an sl /rl photog when windlight was in beta soi canwork around the light
* [12:07] Celierra Darling: waves!
* [12:07] Soft Linden: Oh, ha! This is obnoxious.
* [12:07] xstorm Radek: hi Rodney
* [12:07] Soft Linden: Yeah, this should go in.
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:07] Davy Linden: ok
* [12:07] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-15729 - Unknown failure mode causes uncontrolled network flooding 
* [12:08] Jumpman Lane: nice pants lush
* [12:08] Tillie Ariantho: I should try that again, the blurred titles I mean. Didnt use snowglobe for some weeks, though.
* [12:08] Roberto Salubrius: SL... it tastes like chicken !
* [12:08] Moon Metty: soylent green
* [12:09] Roberto Salubrius: that's people I've heard
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: ack sorry
* [12:09] Latif Khalifa: I've seen voice go amok, eating all cpu available
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
* [12:09] xstorm Radek: lol
* [12:09] Latif Khalifa: had to disable/emable to get it under ontrol
* [12:09] Celierra Darling: Hehe
* [12:10] Davy Linden: current issue ...
* [12:10] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-15729 - Unknown failure mode causes uncontrolled network flooding 
* [12:10] Soft Linden: Let's import this with a note to look at the voice comments in pJIRA
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: ok will do
* [12:10] Davy Linden: ok
* [12:10] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4857 - Continues Momentary Freezing Regardless of Client Version Used 
* [12:10] Jumpman Lane: why are they targeting snowglobe for a fix?
* [12:10] Soft Linden: Tateru says it's getting a bunch of traffic from vivox. Can ask them if they have ideas.
* [12:10] Jumpman Lane: this prob is on 1.23 too i think
* [12:10] Jahar Aabye: back
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: so do we want to import it?
* [12:11] Soft Linden: It should be VWR. The sim wouldn't cause water, etc to stop animating.
* [12:11] xstorm Radek: i have seen that freezing
* [12:11] Tillie Ariantho: I guess its not really going to 1.24 or snowglobe 1.x but the combined successor of both, probably 2.x client?
* [12:11] Soft Linden: So VWR, then import
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:11] Davy Linden: k
* [12:11] Jahar Aabye: with regard to VWR-15729 I have seen that happen before pre-sound throttle due to soundtrigger packets
* [12:11] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-15729: 
* [#VWR-15729] failure mode: causes uncontrolled network flooding
* [12:12] Soft Linden: We've gone backward!
* [12:12] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4368 - Declined No Copy Inventory sent to receivers trash 
* [12:12] Jahar Aabye: sorry, my mistake
* [12:12] Jahar Aabye: had just stepped away from the computer
* [12:12] Latif Khalifa: Soft,the claim is, it happens on all viewers, and it started after 1.30 rollout, several jiras about recent client freezes
* [12:13] Jumpman Lane: yes and sudden unexplained fps drops snce 1.3 server roll out
* [12:13] Soft Linden: The 1.30 server might aggravate something. But the core problem is going to be found by a viewer dev if it's halting the viewer.
* [12:13] Tillie Ariantho: momentary freezing, is that when people enter/leave the sim? I have that seen pretty bad today...
* [12:13] xstorm Radek: well if they Declined it yes it will go in trash
* [12:13] Roberto Salubrius: I had no idea that was a bug
* [12:13] Latif Khalifa: Herleen noted that its expected
* [12:14] Roberto Salubrius: seemed normal behavior to me
* [12:14] xstorm Radek: its been like that for some time its not a bug
* [12:14] Soft Linden: We should import this, because some change needs to happen, even if it's just documentation.
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:14] Latif Khalifa: only think is KB might need updating
* [12:14] Moon Metty: we need an inbox
* [12:14] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4909 - No copy items offered and declined are lost rather than retained by the person offering goods which might otherwise retain viability 
* [12:14] xstorm Radek: what do people wish a Declined item to do ?
* [12:14] Davy Linden: that ooks similar
* [12:14] Soft Linden: yeah. This looks like a dupe of the last.
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: I agree Xstorm
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: yes
* [12:15] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4387 - Functions in Mono have huge memory overhead 
* [12:15] Squirrel Wood: if no copy and declined, should go back to previous owner
* [12:15] Tillie Ariantho: What I want on decline is: not have it, and the person dropping it on me, get a message that I didnt get it.
* [12:15] Roberto Salubrius: that I disagree... and agree quit squirrel
* [12:15] Roberto Salubrius: if I decline an item it should go back to the person offering it not to my trash
* [12:15] Tillie Ariantho: yes
* [12:16] Latif Khalifa: in that case it should be a feature request under svc-
* [12:16] Jumpman Lane: u would think
* [12:16] Imaze Rhiano: if NO COPY item
* [12:16] Latif Khalifa: sicne this is not how it works
* [12:16] Jumpman Lane: if its no copy
* [12:16] Latif Khalifa: (and would be difficult to implemet)
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: back to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4387
* [12:17] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4387|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4387]]: 
* [12:17] Jahar Aabye: oy
* [12:17] Moon Metty: 4387 is NMI from Babbage, i would say
* [12:17] Jahar Aabye: is there more than one ticket with Mono and memory, just out of curiosity?
* [12:17] Imaze Rhiano: this might be result how mono is allocating memory in blocks
* [12:17] xstorm Radek: Squirrel Wood there is a problem with that thinking what if its a vending system ? it will flood the owner and be blocked any way
* [12:18] Soft Linden: I'd expect so.
* [12:18] Imaze Rhiano: or llGetFreeMemory is working under mono - it doesn't seem to reliable in mono
* [12:18] Roberto Salubrius: GetFreeMem has never been reliable
* [12:18] Jahar Aabye: neither has Mono
* [12:19] Imaze Rhiano: well.... it is less reliable in mono - it seems to report allocations in blocks of 512
* [12:19] Squirrel Wood: mono allocates in 4kb blocks if I remember right
* [12:19] Moon Metty: not always, Imaze
* [12:19] Jahar Aabye: well yes, Mono memory is allocated in blocks
* [12:19] xstorm Radek: yes
* [12:19] Jahar Aabye: could have sworn it was 8kb blocks, but my memory could be faulty
* [12:19] Jahar Aabye: but yes, in blocks
* [12:19] Imaze Rhiano: ya not allways - I haven't really bothered to figure out what it is doing - just less reliable than classic LSL
* [12:20] Moon Metty: using i = 1; breaks the 512 granularity
* [12:20] Soft Linden: Honestly, it wouldn't be surprising if it's as Moon says, with each user function taking 352 bytes. But it's hard to imagine the mono team jumping on that if it's not a regression, and if this is constant.
* [12:20] DJQuad Radio: see lushy i told you i = 1 was better to use
* [12:21] Lusciouslumpchunks McMillan: yuss u were right 
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: so action on this?
* [12:21] Moon Metty: maybe Babbage can comment?
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: ok I'll ping him on this one
* [12:21] Soft Linden: I guess we could import, but it's going to end up triaged at very low priority and sit there forever.
* [12:22] Jumpman Lane: where can we find out what has priority
* [12:22] Celierra Darling: Maybe need to inline functions used fewer than 512/(size) times?
* [12:22] Jumpman Lane: you know som list of what you guys are working on
* [12:22] Latif Khalifa: the end result is 56 bytes per user function? i'd say expected behaviour
* [12:22] Celierra Darling: Or would that make compiling way to slow?
* [12:22] Celierra Darling: * too
* [12:22] Jumpman Lane: because im not having mono issues
* [12:22] Jumpman Lane: em at all
* [12:22] Moon Metty: Latif, only is the user defined function doesn't contain lsl calls
* [12:23] Moon Metty: if*
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Unfortunately, core doesn't really have a public list. You could ask questions on sldev, or ask one-off questions about JIRA statuses here.
* [12:23] Latif Khalifa: ah
* [12:23] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13459 - Risk API error "Invalid Parameter" 
* [12:23] Roberto Salubrius: 13459....
* [12:23] Roberto Salubrius: I was expecting this one...
* [12:23] Jumpman Lane: i mean this crap only has three votes
* [12:23] Jumpman Lane: no watchers
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Let's import this. Fraud can quickly test.
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: kk
* [12:24] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14094 - Group Chat busy message 
* [12:24] Jahar Aabye: yeah, but fraud and the Risk API are important, Jumpman
* [12:24] Roberto Salubrius: wait !
* [12:24] Roberto Salubrius: I want to comment on 13459
* [12:24] Jumpman Lane: christ
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Go on?
* [12:24] Roberto Salubrius: 1- why is it so hard to get access to the risk API
* [12:25] Roberto Salubrius: 2- Why we don't have access to the risk api as a function in world
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: can we sideline this for later
* [12:25] Celierra Darling: [crash >.< ]
* [12:25] Jahar Aabye: this really isn't a bug or feature issue, Roberto
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: as we need to get as many issues triaged as possible
* [12:25] Soft Linden: I'd ask the fraud team that. I'd sure guess they didn't want it in everyone's hands as it makes it easier to reverse engineer though.
* [12:25] Roberto Salubrius: Alexa I started talking about the Risk API and trying to get things done, since October 2008 and it has always been placed to the side
* [12:25] Soft Linden: But it's not anything anyone here could answer authoritatively.
* [12:26] Aimee Trescothick: isn't Apotheus that reported that a Linden now anyway? :D
* [12:26] xstorm Radek: i think its best we move on from the API topic
* [12:26] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:26] Soft Linden: Nobody from the fraud team is here.
* [12:26] Latif Khalifa: yeah, very few can comment on the risk api here
* [12:26] Jahar Aabye: yeah, even if they had answers, I can understand the reluctance of LL to discuss the risk API for a number of reasons
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: yes Roberto but there are other people here
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: and this is a triage meeting
* [12:26] Roberto Salubrius: however if someone pays anyone with fraudulent money LL cancels their account and takes 150% of the money the person had, ,and we can't assest risk in world
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: let's get back to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14094
* [12:26] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#VWR-14094|JIRA-helper: [#VWR-14094]]: 
* [12:26] Latif Khalifa: its not really "triagable" issue :D
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: this is from june/july
* [12:27] Roberto Salubrius: ok so to what linden do one talks about the risk api ?
* [12:27] Moon Metty: that's a busy group ...
* [12:27] Jahar Aabye: I'm wondering if that might have involved Emerald
* [12:27] Jahar Aabye: since it can autorespond to IMs
* [12:28] Jahar Aabye: including a feature to autorespond when in busy mode
* [12:28] Tillie Ariantho: I'd like to have a 'decline direct payments' feature. I dont want to take money except through my vendors or xstreet.
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: NMI - still a problem?
* [12:28] Squirrel Wood: yus. payments still cannot be denied
* [12:28] Squirrel Wood: huuuuuuuuge flaw
* [12:28] Tillie Ariantho: yes
* [12:28] Soft Linden: I think NMI, but also ask them to include who was sending the busy messages. Then we can check what viewer they use.
* [12:28] xstorm Radek: oh crap
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:28] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:29] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4424 - Objects owned by me cnt be used by others if the object rezzes objects to operate (ie poseballs or blank notecards/scripts) 
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Group, time, date, and sender - ideally.
* [12:29] Tillie Ariantho: you can make anyone got banned just by stealing some money somewhere and transfer it to that person.
* [12:29] Squirrel Wood: once had someone pay me 600k fraudulent L$.. wasn't fun at all.
* [12:29] Latif Khalifa: Heh i just got that emty group name on voice group chat invite we had last week ;)
* [12:30] Tillie Ariantho: hm, never seen that 4424 one.
* [12:30] xstorm Radek: how do you know if its Fraudlent L$ or not ????
* [12:30] Roberto Salubrius: that's why I have looked in an out SL to what lindent to talk about the risk api, but I run into a wall every time, we need at least integer llEvalRiskApi(key id)
* [12:30] Jahar Aabye: sounds like poor coding
* [12:30] Soft Linden: This is a couple years old
* [12:30] Squirrel Wood: x, you don't until your account is locked.
* [12:30] Soft Linden: I'd NMI, ask if it's still happening, and where we can see one currently having the issue
* [12:30] xstorm Radek: well thats a pain
* [12:30] Jahar Aabye: either failure to check the owner on_rez(), perhaps errantly relying on the changed() event to do that
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:31] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4505 - SW corner of sim shifts house to 0,0,0 
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: may 08
* [12:31] Aimee Trescothick: hmm, a mobile home
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: LOL
* [12:31] Moon Metty: :)
* [12:32] Aimee Trescothick: "We're not in Kansas any more"
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: boooooooo
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: nmi?
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: still a problem?
* [12:32] Tillie's Posing: Stand 3.0 HUD:STANDARD #11 whispers: hud.cam.InitScript(0: , 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000)
* [12:32] Moon Metty: yeah
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: kk
* [12:32] xstorm Radek: thats not funny i seen that happen on a islend but think its do to a script left in the prim or dirty building tool scripts
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Yeah, NMI, ask for a current location. Does anyone want to peek at the locations from a year and a half ago, just be sure they don't still have it?
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: no way of telling if it's the same build
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Sailors Cove, Anchors Cove
* [12:33] Jahar Aabye: well, even if it were a script, it'd have to do warppos or similar to move it to 0,0,0 if that was more than 10m away
* [12:33] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6322 - fails to centre the copy 
* [12:34] Jahar Aabye: but they do mention houses.....maybe the houses used Rez-Fauz or similar, dunno
* [12:34] Tillie's Posing: Stand 3.0 HUD:STANDARD #11 whispers: hud.cam.InitScript(0: , 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000)
* [12:34] Soft Linden: Oof. I just hate to do NMI, asking for new locations if we're not sure we'll see the new locations again shortly after.
* [12:34] Soft Linden: Then again, I guess if this were widespread, support would be screaming at us.
* [12:34] Squirrel Wood: 6322 still happening with latest client ?
* [12:35] Moon Metty: it looks like it, Squirrel
* [12:35] xstorm Radek: screeming is not the word for it lol
* [12:36] Squirrel Wood: I would suggest using shift-drag to copy.
* [12:36] Jahar Aabye: same here
* [12:36] Squirrel Wood: it will be centered that way.
* [12:36] Jahar Aabye: but might as well check
* [12:36] Soft Linden: Is this reproing for anyone here? It didn't for me just then.
* [12:36] Tillie Ariantho: Ok, after a crash my HUD got moved. Somehow the coordinates on the HUD need to get a fix. It's a pain, especially when you build HUDs yourself.
* [12:36] Davy Linden: is "copy selection" meant to line them up?
* [12:37] Davy Linden: I think the is expected behaviour
* [12:37] Soft Linden: It is if 'Center' is checked
* [12:37] Davy Linden: oh
* [12:37] xstorm Radek: are they using the build Docker hud to make the copys ?
* [12:37] xstorm Radek: i do know there is a error on center for that now
* [12:37] Roberto Salubrius: ever since I learned how to use that I do not see any issues with the centering
* [12:37] Roberto Salubrius: it works just fine
* [12:38] Jahar Aabye: heh, I can't even manage to try to repro a single-prim copying problem....this is why I'm a scripter
* [12:38] Squirrel Wood: there. perfectly centered
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Nobody having the issue?
* [12:39] Aimee Trescothick: nope
* [12:39] Roberto Salubrius: it works correctly
* [12:39] Squirrel Wood: if you have multiple prims selected it will center to the whole "objects" center
* [12:39] Squirrel Wood: but even then it should work out ok
* [12:39] Roberto Salubrius: well lets see
* [12:40] Celierra Darling: Might want to try in a skybox just in case that effects numerical precision somehow, but I wouldn't bet on it
* [12:40] Celierra Darling: * affects >.>
* [12:40] xstorm Radek: no copy problems at all
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Looks like they're at a really low LOD if that makes a difference
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Are there any build options that cause objects to be initially rezzed in grid-alinged positions?
* [12:40] Roberto Salubrius: with different objects selected it does not center
* [12:41] Moon Metty: i never use this feature, nor the grid ..
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: it centers the coalesced objects center on the prims center you click on
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: but ye. I'd recommend shift-drag to copy
* [12:42] Celierra Darling: Wait, what's the non-shift-drag item?
* [12:42] Roberto Salubrius: it centers based on the last prim selected ... but it does not center it moves to a side
* [12:42] Soft Linden: I think I'd can't-repro this, unless anyone here pulls it off.
* [12:42] Roberto Salubrius: soft slect several objects then copy them to the center of another objects
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:42] Roberto Salubrius: they get offseted to the side
* [12:42] Roberto Salubrius: but only on multiple selected objects
* [12:43] Roberto Salubrius: not on 1 object
* [12:43] Soft Linden: I'd leave a comment asking if they're sure they're not doing that, then.
* [12:43] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7105 - Crash logger Freezes, fails to come up, or actually crashes (yes the crash logger crashes) 
* [12:43] Roberto Salubrius: lol
* [12:43] Moon Metty: we need a crashlogger for the crashlogger now ..
* [12:44] Jahar Aabye: I remember that happening on one of the old RC clients
* [12:44] Phantom Ninetails: lol
* [12:44] Jahar Aabye: might have been 1.20 or 1.21
* [12:44] Squirrel Wood: like I said. the coalesced objects center is centered on the clicked prims center.
* [12:44] Celierra Darling: [erk, that was not intentionally leud >.> ]
* [12:44] Latif Khalifa: what is this crashlogger you speak off? my viewer does not crash :D
* [12:44] Moon Metty: :)
* [12:44] Tillie Ariantho: You dont take enough snapshots then.
* [12:45] xstorm Radek: lol
* [12:45] Moon Metty: actually, since 1.30 i do crash
* [12:45] Latif Khalifa: hardly any true
* [12:45] Tillie Ariantho: I can repro a crash in like 10 minutes, if you give me a sim with a crowd of maybe 50 people.
* [12:45] Moon Metty: not very often though
* [12:45] Roberto Salubrius: I crash a lot since 1.30 however the crashlogger never bothers to show up
* [12:45] Roberto Salubrius: I tought it was removed
* [12:45] Tillie Ariantho: probably faster
* [12:46] Jahar Aabye: well yueah, a sim with 50 people of course
* [12:46] xstorm Radek: every time i crash it sends in a log unless i get a blue screen
* [12:46] Davy Linden: have you got it disabled? (edit, prefrences, general, crash reports)
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: Hey Sasy :D
* [12:46] Latif Khalifa: yeah i never saw crash logger either, even my setting says to send it always, but i always assumed it was becose a set a different --channel
* [12:46] Jahar Aabye: used to see crash loggers
* [12:46] Tillie Ariantho: Jahar: it just shouldnt happen... crashes are evil.
* [12:46] Sasy Scarborough: hi :) and hi all
* [12:46] Jahar Aabye: back in the day
* [12:46] Tillie Ariantho: Hello Sasy. :)
* [12:46] Roberto Salubrius: no Davy... it's not disabled
* [12:46] Sasy Scarborough: hi Tillie
* [12:46] Roberto Salubrius: but the crashes I get are very HARSH
* [12:47] Jahar Aabye: and Tillie, a sim with 50 avatars....I'm not going to get into why, but trust me, there are plenty of reasons why all of that rendering could cause a freeze and crash
* [12:47] Roberto Salubrius: you just type... or do something then bam... desktop...
* [12:47] Tillie Ariantho: I even lowered the memory for the display to 256MB as some recommended... that didnt help at all. SL hits something like 1,1GB and then crashes.
* [12:47] Moon Metty: yes Rob, on an empty, healthy sim
* [12:47] Soft Linden: Let's import this. We can ask the guys who maintain the crashlogger if they're confident they're catching these failures.
* [12:47] Sasy Scarborough: oo the straight to desktop crashes are so dramatic
* [12:48] xstorm Radek: sounds more like the OpenGL problem with a persons graphic memory and driver
* [12:48] Jahar Aabye: possibly
* [12:48] Roberto Salubrius: moon you don't get them or you do I see you log in quite fast... or the crshlogger starts
* [12:48] Opensource Obscure: yeah, sometimes i even get badalamenti's background music when crashing
* [12:48] Tillie Ariantho: I only need to take a full view all around the audience of a show... so all is more or less rezzed... then click snapshot --> instant crash
* [12:48] Sasy Scarborough: i get that with profile
* [12:48] Sasy Scarborough: or search
* [12:49] Tillie Ariantho: And thats independent if I use 1.22, 1.23, emerald or snowglobe.
* [12:49] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:49] Jahar Aabye: in that case, it's probably your graphics drivers
* [12:49] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1101 - Sever performance difference between Main Grid Class 4 sim and Identical Sim in Havok4 Beta 
* [12:49] Ashia Tomsen: I get it when editing a body part and try to put on another without saving, instant crash
* [12:49] Moon Metty: ooo that's old
* [12:49] Squirrel Wood: 2007
* [12:49] Roberto Salubrius: moon old but valid
* [12:49] Jahar Aabye: our main sim is class 4
* [12:49] Alexa Linden: nibbles Squirrel's pumpkin toes
* [12:49] Imaze Rhiano: better late than nevver
* [12:50] Roberto Salubrius: Havok 4 when has any significant physics load... slows the sim way worst than havok1
* [12:50] Sasy Scarborough: ooo pervey Alexa
* [12:50] Latif Khalifa: needs Resolved - Obsolete tag ;)
* [12:50] Roberto Salubrius: you and me have seen it countless times
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: <.<
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: >.>
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Can close this. Yeah, havok4 performs differently.
* [12:50] Jahar Aabye: I can definitely confirm that there are performance differences, but.....I mean, that's also kinda like saying my Saturn doesn't do 0-60 as well as the other guy's Ferrari
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:50] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2161 - llRotLookAt not working in physical object below 0.002860 mass. 
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: mah pore toes!
* [12:50] Roberto Salubrius: well significant and insignificant...
* [12:50] Tillie Ariantho: And I just relogged here after crash and am already at 866MB memory for SL... and still lots of clouded avatar after like 10 minutes in here. After a crash lots of shapes are not loading anymore.
* [12:50] Ashia Tomsen: needs an old/obsolete tag, then I'll fit right in :P
* [12:51] Sasy Scarborough: pulls a zimmerframe out of inventory for you
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: one more for the day?
* [12:51] Ashia Tomsen: tops
* [12:51] Jahar Aabye: are you asking if anyone has one more to add?
* [12:51] Squirrel Wood: my sl client uses up 388mb in ram
* [12:51] Davy Linden: we're on ,,,,
* [12:51] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2161 - llRotLookAt not working in physical object below 0.002860 mass. 
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: looks at davy
* [12:51] Imaze Rhiano: yawns
* [12:51] Tillie Ariantho: hm, i never use physic objects. ^^
* [12:52] xstorm Radek: i do
* [12:52] Imaze Rhiano: seems to work fine for me
* [12:52] Imaze Rhiano: but I did use different code
* [12:52] Jahar Aabye: I know that rotations below a certain degree (no pun intended) can sometimes get a bit odd
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: thanks Imaze :)
* [12:53] Soft Linden: I'm assuming this is a precision issue. At some point, the force needed is too small, effectively zero. Hrm.
* [12:53] xstorm Radek: lol
* [12:53] Roberto Salubrius: llRotLookAt uses energy an object with that mass can't have the energy to power llRotLookAt()
* [12:53] Roberto Salubrius: I would say that is expected...
* [12:54] Roberto Salubrius: well if the documentation is correct that is
* [12:54] Tillie Ariantho: yah. ^^
* [12:54] Celierra Darling: Roberto, smaller objects get more energy, not less
* [12:54] Jahar Aabye: no, they recharge faster
* [12:54] Roberto Salubrius: Celierra are you sure ?
* [12:54] Roberto Salubrius: I know they do have less energy
* [12:54] Jahar Aabye: could have sworn force was based on the mass of the pushing object
* [12:54] Jahar Aabye: but that's with push
* [12:55] Celierra Darling: Oh, not sure about max energy capacity
* [12:55] Jahar Aabye: but I thought that it was that smaller objects recharged their energy pool faster, but had less energy
* [12:55] Moon Metty: energy should increase with mass
* [12:55] Soft Linden: Roberto - would you add that in a comment? Let's do that and bump the date, see if they or someone else who knows the physics system well can comment.
* [12:55] Roberto Salubrius: but I could be wrong.. if Celierra is correct then it's a bug,... if I am correct then it is expected.
* [12:55] Jahar Aabye: Andrew would be the obvious person to ask
* [12:55] Roberto Salubrius: moon can you comment that for me pleaseeeeeeee :)
* [12:56] Moon Metty: "my hovercraft is full of eels"
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:56] Roberto Salubrius: 42 !
* [12:56] Soft Linden: I'm hesitant to hand it to Andrew without more vetting. He's got a *lot* on his plate right now, and wouldn't touch this for ages unless it clearly breaks something. 2 votes is a small indicator of that.
* [12:56] Jahar Aabye: good point
* [12:57] Jahar Aabye: he's the go-to guy for the serious stuff
* [12:57] Jahar Aabye: I was just thinking, he knows physics
* [12:57] Jahar Aabye: but this isn't serious enough by a long shot
* [12:57] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:58] Squirrel Wood: mark as triaged and request feedback from smart people? ^^
* [12:58] Tillie Ariantho: ^^
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: lol squirrel
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Pretty much. Get that energy comment on there, and see if anyone else working with physics code disagrees.
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: sounds good
* [12:58] Roberto Salubrius: no no I have to be correct a 0 mass object has no energy thus it can't use any function that uses energy
* [12:59] Alexa Linden: and I think that's it for the day
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: llGetStartParameter() also returns 0 when the script is reset. So you have to store the value in the objects description or something. (for the one we did not get to :p)
* [12:59] Jahar Aabye: ok, I was gonna ask about MISC-3088, but maybe save that for....well, might not be appropriate for this venue
* [12:59] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3088: 
* [#MISC-3088] future exploits: - Save script local
* [12:59] Alexa Linden: thank you all so much for attending and all your help and insight
* [12:59] Davy Linden: thanks all
*