Open Source Meeting/2009-02-05

== Agenda ==
No posted agenda
== Transcript ==
* [14:02] Lim Catteneo: hi geo, rob, morg, xstorm
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Lim, all :-)
* [14:02] Rob Linden: hi everyone!
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: waves
* [14:02] Rob Linden: transcript will be posted to wiki.secondlife.com, so bear that in mind as you type
* [14:02] Atashi Toshihiko: Hello :)
* [14:04] Rob Linden: it does'nt look like anyone posted anything on the agenda for this week
* [14:04] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
* [14:04] Q Linden: or hit play on your media
* [14:05] Rob Linden: oh yeah
* [14:05] Rob Linden: always forgets about that
* [14:06] Rob Linden: so, there's been a bunch of work on build instructions again. Lear did a lot of work pretty recently
* [14:06] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Microsoft_Windows_Builds
* [14:06] Rob Linden: do we seem to be converging on something more useful?
* [14:07] Robin Cornelius: its starting to look better
* [14:07] Robin Cornelius: its seems to have the issues that we have been repeating over and over on sldev and #opensl recently
* [14:08] Rob Linden: the "where's the built viewer" piece probably could use some wordsmithing, perhaps copy/pasting out of talk
* [14:08] Robin Cornelius: there needs a cavaet for VS2005 express as that can't install itsself correctly
* [14:08] Robin Cornelius: its an easy workaround but it can't even get its own SDK paths correct
* [14:09] Rob Linden: that's depressing
* [14:09] Rob Linden: Robin, is that in your build instructions?
* [14:09] Robin Cornelius: no
* [14:09] Robin Cornelius: mine are probably in need of retiring soon
* [14:10] Robin Cornelius: should add a note that they are now old and to go to the offical page
* [14:10] Rob Linden: I was looking for a place to copy/paste :)
* [14:10] Rob Linden: ...from, that is
* [14:10] Robin Cornelius: i should write it down somewhere
* [14:10] Robin Cornelius: i've seen a number on #opensl with the issue and a few have IMd me too
* [14:11] Rob Linden: yeah...thanks for maintaining a fresh page for a while, and for being so helpful on #opensl
* [14:11] Robin Cornelius: i just like the fact that my linux builds are down to make ; make install now ;-p
* [14:12] Khyota Wulluf: yuuuuuuuus!
* [14:12] Rob Linden: (for those that don't know what we're talking about, this is the page Robin was working on: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Michelle2_Zenovka/cmake )
* [14:12] Morgaine Dinova: \o/
* [14:12] Rob Linden: that's very cool
* [14:12] Lim Catteneo: great artwork download script :)
* [14:12] Lim Catteneo: for svn builders
* [14:12] Rob Linden: Lim...which script is that?
* [14:13] Lim Catteneo: On that page
* [14:13] Robin Cornelius: oh something that might be worth JIRAing is i've added a Find llmozlib cmake rule to flip the _DMOZLIB:BOOL on/off
* [14:13] Robin Cornelius: automagicly
* [14:14] Rob Linden: yeah, that'd be nice to get in
* [14:14] Robin Cornelius: ah Lim you mean the cygwin script for pulling from LL SVN and grabbing the correct art etc?
* [14:14] Lim Catteneo: yes
* [14:15] Robin Cornelius: yea that page was created in the days when cmake was only on SVN
* [14:15] Robin Cornelius: may be some kind of companion is needed for the offical build page tailored for SVN trunk chasers
* [14:16] Rob Linden: that might make sense
* [14:16] Rob Linden: the current set of pages are kinda ambiguous about that
* [14:16] Lim Catteneo: i used it to make my own version of the script which pulls artwork automatically to a svn checkout, takes checkout dir as a param (http://pastebin.com/m57ba3e97)
* [14:17] Rob Linden: what sort of things are specific to SVN trunk chasers?
* [14:17] Robin Cornelius: downloading the correct artwork bundle mostly now
* [14:17] Robin Cornelius: from the ASSERT_URLS
* [14:17] Robin Cornelius: *ASSET
* [14:17] Khyota Wulluf: LOL
* [14:18] Robin Cornelius: the rest is just standard SVN stuff and the usual waltz with fmod and llkdu
* [14:18] Lim Catteneo: well its all in that script :) http://pastebin.com/m57ba3e97
* [14:18] Rob Linden: I think that's noted inline already at least on the windows page. seems like we should probably avoid a separate page unless the clutter factor is getting too large
* [14:19] Rob Linden: Once I set about busting up the central cmake page, I was a little surprised just how small the amount of text was that was portioned to each page
* [14:20] Rob Linden: the old cmake page ended up being one switch statement after another (figuratively, not literally)
* [14:20] Robin Cornelius: some of the issue was the fact the cmake build slowly merged in
* [14:21] Thickbrick Sleaford: wow, RC8 has openal?
* [14:22] Robin Cornelius: yea
* [14:22] Robin Cornelius: and a new SLvoice
* [14:22] Thickbrick Sleaford: w00t
* [14:22] Khyota Wulluf: RC8 is out yet?
* [14:22] Rob Linden: just came out today
* [14:22] Khyota Wulluf: exciting
* [14:23] Q Linden: I'm soaking in it
* [14:23] Lim Catteneo: lot of problems reported with the new vivox daemon
* [14:23] Khyota Wulluf: good
* [14:23] Rob Linden: it's a bigger change than we normally like making in an RC, but we needed to get the voice sdk updated, from what I understand
* [14:23] Khyota Wulluf: (that we are finding the bugs)
* [14:24] Rob Linden: looks at JIRA to see what the reports are
* [14:24] Khyota Wulluf: pokes michelle > omvviewer update?
* [14:24] Thickbrick Sleaford: openal is only on linux for now, right?
* [14:24] Robin Cornelius: Khyota, yea going to get a big openAL conflict with the old patch i need to rip out
* [14:25] Khyota Wulluf: i was almost done compiling it too :(
* [14:25] Rob Linden: Lim, where are you seeing the vivox problems reported?
* [14:26] Lim Catteneo: the nightly build group in world, Battery Street Irregulars, don't use voice myself, cannto confirm
* [14:28] Lim Catteneo: don't know if jira's were filed, but people report crashes in slvoice.exe and that when teleporting from a region with voice to a region where voice is disabled, the voice does not get disconnected and you still hear the voice from pre-teleport location
* [14:28] Rob Linden: hopefully that stuff does get into JIRA
* [14:29] Rob Linden: Linux folks especially, make sure you give this new version a whirl
* [14:29] Morgaine Dinova: Will do
* [14:29] Robin Cornelius: that reminds me need to ping viavox-open again, they did way they would get back to me about non-free distribution
* [14:30] Rob Linden: OpenAL support is only on Linux right now, but it's likely we'll roll it out on other platforms once it's proven to work really well on Linux
* [14:30] Khyota Wulluf: yay, linux first for once!
* [14:31] Rob Linden: anyone have anything else to talk about on the viewer?
* [14:31] Rob Linden: on the latest RC, that is?
* [14:31] Rob Linden: if not, I'm thinking it might be good to start looking at this list: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=11240
* [14:31] Rob Linden: we haven't done that in a while
* [14:32] Rob Linden: if you look at the "last triaged" date on these, you'll notice that we have been pretty good at looking at them in our internal triages
* [14:32] Rob Linden: however, if there's a particular annoyance on that list that seems to be stalled, please raise it now
* [14:33] Morgaine Dinova: Imprudence has mixed reports on the audio side so far, which is OpenAL on all. Works great in Linux, except when live musicians switch streams and that causes a long hang.
* [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: Could I ask, are there multiple versions of SL audio in the wild, or is everyone working off the same base, which probably derives from Seg's old patches?
* [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: I mean SL audio on OpenAL, sorry
* [14:36] Robin Cornelius: i think openAL went segs with my gstreamer stuff on top + gigs/argents wind stuff
* [14:36] Morgaine Dinova: Aha
* [14:37] Robin Cornelius: and later days i was rebasing the whole openal patch set on JIRA so i think that became the base
* [14:37] Robin Cornelius: for offical version tofu cleand the media interface to gstreamer but the core openAL is still the same just tidyed up
* [14:37] Morgaine Dinova: Hope so. Would be bad if we had multiple incompatible OpenAL SL subsystems.
* [14:38] Rob Linden: when did OpenAL hit trunk (or did it)?
* [14:38] Rob Linden: doesn't recall
* [14:38] Lim Catteneo: it went into 1.22 brach a couple of days ago
* [14:39] Rob Linden: yeah, I knew that....I'm just wondering if it went straight into 1.22 or went into trunk first
* [14:39] Rob Linden: (exactly when is less important)
* [14:39] Khyota Wulluf: openal hit trunk a few months ago i think
* [14:40] Thickbrick Sleaford: Tofu Linden added a comment - 03/Dec/08 01:43 AM 
* This has landed on the trunk now!
* [14:40] Thickbrick Sleaford: from the jira issue
* [14:41] Rob Linden: ah, ok. reason I asked was because I was wondering about whether anyone rebased their openal work back then
* [14:42] Rob Linden: not terribly important, though
* [14:43] Robin Cornelius: no i kept using my patch set because it was more convinent to do so
* [14:43] Morgaine Dinova: No response from McCabe, who is doing the OpenAL stuff for Imprudence
* [14:44] Rob Linden: on a different topic, did this ever get a discussion on sldev@ : http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9816
* [14:45] Robin Cornelius: don't think so
* [14:46] Rob Linden: standalone builds aren't a big priority here, but we will take patches if people make them
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: if that is still happening its just a bug in the python
* [14:46] Jacek Antonelli: waves and quietly takes a seat
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: don't tend to run the develop.py very often
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: use my own bootstraps but if no one takes i can add to my pile
* [14:47] Khyota Wulluf: oh boy
* [14:47] Rob Linden: Khyota: is this still a problem for you?
* [14:47] Thickbrick Sleaford: I was under the impression that it did the same with -t Release, but I'm not sure
* [14:48] Khyota Wulluf: thikbrick, yes it does. but this doesnt bother me much anymore
* [14:50] Morgaine Dinova: I'll be fighting standalones again in a few days time, just setting things up now, so will have some feedback on that before long.
* [14:50] Robin Cornelius: Rob, is it acceptable on JIRA to assign something like that to myself, in the i'm going to provide a patch and attach it here kind of way?
* [14:50] Rob Linden: well, if anyone is able to independently confirm that it's a problem for them, please note that in the comments
* [14:50] Morgaine Dinova: Linux-only though, for me.
* [14:51] Rob Linden: Robin: sure, go for it! I'd only do that if you're truly calling dibs on it
* [14:51] Rob Linden: otherwise, you may just make a note "if no one else plans to do this, I'll pick it up"
* [14:52] Robin Cornelius: sure
* [14:54] Rob Linden: Khyota: this still a problem: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9475 ?
* [14:54] Khyota Wulluf: one sec
* [14:55] Khyota Wulluf: oh yeah
* [14:55] Khyota Wulluf: that one is quite annoying
* [14:55] Robin Cornelius: yes
* [14:55] Robin Cornelius: Why are the cursors not with the artwork bundle?
* [14:55] Rob Linden: I'm trying to parse out what the solution is on that one
* [14:56] Robin Cornelius: they use to be part of the viewer source and got seperated out to a seperate package, but as they are more artwork type things IMHO the artwork bundle is the place for them
* [14:56] Rob Linden: imports the issue into the internal issue tracker
* [14:57] Khyota Wulluf: should have brought that up earlier, i thought it was imported already
* [14:57] Rob Linden: oh, so wait a sec....they're bundled into a library?
* [14:57] Morgaine Dinova: Love the comment "Capital [.BMP
* [14:57] Rob Linden: so....here's an interesting connundrum
* [14:58] Rob Linden: we want to get out of having the separate lib and artwork bundles altogether, and just use the library mecahnism
* [14:58] Rob Linden: ...since, after all, it is just another web publication thing
* [14:59] Rob Linden: so, rather than moving things back into the artwork bundle, we should figure out how to make that part of the standalone build process
* [14:59] Rob Linden: where "standalone" maybe becomes "not quite standalone"
* [15:00] Robin Cornelius: well we need to be able to parse the install.xml and grab the art things in standalone
* [15:00] Robin Cornelius: but only them
* [15:00] Khyota Wulluf: for current standalone builds, its been quite confusing, the cursors are missing, but ware are they?
* [15:00] Robin Cornelius: Khyota they are listed in instal.xml
* [15:00] Robin Cornelius: *install
* [15:00] Morgaine Dinova: Does the artwork include headers, or is it pure artwork? If the latter, it would be taken even out of standalone, and made into something like a separate artwork cache.
* [15:01] Morgaine Dinova: could* be
* [15:01] Khyota Wulluf: the lib packages yes
* [15:01] Robin Cornelius: irs pure art
* [15:01] Khyota Wulluf: < robin
* [15:01] Rob Linden: Morgaine: yeah, that's kind of the idea
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: Cool Rob
* [15:02] Rob Linden: we suspect that it won't be just one "artwork" file, but multiple smaller bundles
* [15:02] Robin Cornelius: that could reduce delta a lot
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: I like that idea, allows incremental update.
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: Yep
* [15:02] Rob Linden: since we've already got the mechanism to deal with lots of small bundles, it should be no big thing
* [15:03] Rob Linden: ...but I suppose the real kicker is figuring out how to make "standalone" not be an all or nothing proposition
* [15:03] Khyota Wulluf: do you repackage the artwork with each svn revision, and keep all of the archives currently?
* [15:03] Rob Linden: (sorry that we're running over.....I've got a little time if others do)
* [15:04] Morgaine Dinova: I have an UXIG meeting now ... see you all. But will be contributing to the standalone work I expect soon. /me waves
* [15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: shameless plug: IM me if you want an invite to AW Groupies, the in-world discussion group for the AWG
* [15:05] Rob Linden: btw: here's a feature request that CG Linden made for CMake: http://public.kitware.com/Bug/view.php?id=8471
* [15:05] Rob Linden: ...with that feature, taking away the all-or-nothing nature of standalone would be easier
* [15:05] Q Linden: gotta run!
* [15:06] Rob Linden: anyway...good discussion. i'm a little sad that we hit on a really ripe topic just as time ws running out
* [15:06] Rob Linden: ..but maybe we can pick up where we left off next week
* [15:07] Rob Linden: anyway, thanks everyone for coming!
* [15:07] Rob Linden: as always, I'll be on irc (llrobla on irc.efnet.org #opensl)
* [15:07] Thickbrick Sleaford: thanks for having us
* [15:08] Rob Linden: see y'all next week if not on irc
* [15:08] Atashi Toshihiko: thanks Rob, take care :)
Category:Open Source Meeting