Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-04

07:03 	Wolfpup  	hey Oz
  	Tonya Souther  	Morning, Oz./
  	Office Orb  	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
  	Oz Linden  	Hi all
  	Wolfpup  	dang only two of us besides you oz?
  	Oz Linden  	Gee... quiet morning
07:04 	Wolfpup  	hey craconis
  	draconis.neurocam 	hello
07:05 	Tonya Souther  	Have to dig out much snow, Oz?
  	Oz Linden  	No, the Apr 1 snowstorm has pretty much melted now
  	oobscure  	heh
  	Oz Linden  	didn't even bother to clear it... got about 5 inches
07:06 	Wolfpup  	hey open
  	oobscure  	hey everybody
  	Oz Linden  	but it was 50 the next day
  	oobscure  	wow
  	Wolfpup  	Oz dose the new physics work on the old AV's
07:07 	Oz Linden  	what's an old av?
  	  	you can add a physics wearable to any av
  	Wolfpup  	oh ok
07:08 	Oz Linden  	not very interesting on this one, though
  	  	liked your video, opensource
  	Wolfpup  	true only the ladies will use it much
  	oobscure  	:D
  	Tonya Souther  	Which video?
  	Wolfpup  	seconds that question
  	oobscure  	not a nice video, but hopefully demonstr...ative
  	  	do we already have an agenda ? i'd like to ask a question with regard to .. testing the last builds .. which SL features should we mostly test ? I guess some are more .. potentially problematic than others ..
07:09 	  	tonya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1xol1cCTwI
  	hat sculpted ...  	
Video Preview: Avatar Physics (Chest, Butt, and Belly Bounce) in Second Life Viewer
  	Oz Linden  	oh no... I've got an av for TPV testing who's a big fat jolly guy.... it's great on him
  	  	yes, we should talk about that, but I want to go over the OPEN issues first....
  	Tonya Souther  	ah. Yes, one of out support leads has been playing with that, too.
07:10 	Oz Linden  	https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%%3D+%%22Open+Development%%22+AND+assignee+is+EMPTY+AND+status+%%3D+%%22Awaiting+Review%%22++ORDER+BY+createdDate%%2C+priority+DESC
  	  	open-55
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-55
OPEN-55 The 3p-tut repository does not reflect what is being downloaded from the prebuild lib pacakges
07:12 	Oz Linden  	hmmm... that's not good.... I'll have to look into that one.
  	  	the 3p-* repos should match the packages...
  	  	open-54
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-54
OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)
  	Tonya Souther  	yah, wasn't that pretty much their purpose?
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it is
07:14 	Tonya Souther  	This seems like a straighforward fix.
  	Oz Linden  	I don't think that I understand the issue, and don't care much about standalone... if there's a change to go with it, I'll test it
07:15 	Tonya Souther  	I'm a little surprised Boroondas didnt' include a patch. Seems like a one-liner.
07:16 	Oz Linden  	open-53
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-53
OPEN-53 Bad permissions of files in 3p-openssl cause packaging failure on Linux in OpensourceRelese mode.
  	Oz Linden  	I don't understand why if this is a problem that it wouldn't show up in our builds?
07:17 	Tonya Souther  	Are you running build as root?
  	Oz Linden  	I hope not
  	Tonya Souther  	Or as the group owning the files?
  	Wolfpup  	Oz that would be because your build farms have the permisions that os dev do not
  	Oz Linden  	would not surprise me if the group matched... that could be it
07:18 	  	open-52
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-52
OPEN-52 Superfluous source files
07:19 	Wolfpup  	you might see if there is a way to set the permisions to any
  	Tonya Souther  	There's a *LOT* of dead code in the viewer. I keep tripping over it trying to do things.
  	Oz Linden  	I love the idea of getting rid of dead code
  	oobscure  	I think it's a very good effort by jonathan
  	Wolfpup  	is dead code just for linux or is it dead in windows and mac as well
07:20 	Oz Linden  	it looks like some was needed
  	oobscure  	this weekend I managed to do build the viewer the new Autobuild way and hopefully I can help Jonathan with testing that
  	Oz Linden  	but of course it should match the cmake files anyway
07:21 	  	I'll set up a TeamCity task for that too
  	  	By the way - I'm told that I've actually got the Macs for the open source build farm!
  	oobscure  	o.o
  	draconis.neurocam 	woo
  	Tonya Souther  	yay!
07:22 	Oz Linden  	Still need to get a hosting location set up for them... but progress is progress
  	oobscure  	what will they do exactly ?
  	Wolfpup  	Oz what about the windows and linux ones?
07:23 	Oz Linden  	Windows and Linux will be done with Amazon EC2 hosts
07:24 	Wolfpup  	Opensource the build farms Oz is talking about will be the ones that devs like you and me will be able to use
  	Oz Linden  	It will allow you to do TeamCity builds that are as close as possible to exactly what we do internally, on all three platforms at once
07:25 	  	So I won't have to do test builds for you to make sure that we've got cross platform tests
  	Wolfpup  	Oz do you have any people in mind as initial testers?
  	Oz Linden  	Too soon to worry about that
  	oobscure  	and I guess .. they will do that fast? farm = distributed work?
07:26 	Oz Linden  	I don't have a date yet for when I'll get a network set up for these... that looks like the gating problem now
  	Wolfpup  	oob they will build in the same length of time as the regular LL build farms
  	Oz Linden  	I don't really know what the performance will be like yet
  	oobscure  	ok, thanks.
  	Oz Linden  	Our windows builds take a bit over 2 hours
07:27 	  	but we'll have to see what the EC2 performance turns out to be
  	Wolfpup  	the same as it dose for me when i do my local builds
  	Oz Linden  	open-38
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-38
OPEN-38 Fixes for viewer-autobuild for standalone
07:29 	Wolfpup  	that seems more of a linux and 64-bit issue
  	Oz Linden  	I'll Accept this one and look into it... looks like a minor nusiance
07:30 	  	And that completes our triage !
  	  	I'm also going to look at the changes in OPEN-50
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-50
OPEN-50 As an Open Source developer I would like a single set of configurations, which work for both Visual Studio and Express version of VC.
07:31 	Oz Linden  	figuring those out will be much more of a pain than they should be though because things were renamed and rearranged so the diffs are essentially useless
  	Wolfpup  	that macke it mor uniform for the Os devs as we all will have exactly the same settings and switches available
07:32 	draconis.neurocam 	would be wonderful if that was the case in the future, over the weekend i got 2010 express and all the other necessary things set up
07:33 	Oz Linden  	Yes, I believe the changes are largely good, it will just take some time to sort out
  	Wolfpup  	the names ar bacicaly like ths OpenSourceReleaseWithDebInfo -> ReleaseWithDebInfoOS
07:34 	Oz Linden  	it's a fine convention... but it caused the blocks to be re-ordered, so I can't easily see what the other diffs are
  	  	I'll have to monkey with the files to really compare them
  	Wolfpup  	plust in the OS settings switches are added
07:35 	Oz Linden  	It turns out that there is a reason why we didn't use precompiled headers (which is one of the diffs)..... someone told me what it was on Friday, but I've forgotten at the moemnt
  	  	Ah... Boroondas.... once you get yourself settled
07:36 	Wolfpup  	Oz they have just beend re grouped all the verious setting are togeather now ie Debug group ReleaseWithDebInfo group
  	Oz Linden  	open-54 needs a change to review
  	Wolfpup  	that was me and it was because VS2005 defaulted to it beong on
  	Oz Linden  	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-54
  	Office Orb  	OPEN-54 Inconsistent CMake variable name for JsonCpp include dir(s)
07:37 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	ah, yeah ... that's low priority, though. The error doesn't have any effect currently.
  	Oz Linden  	no... I mean that it is off in 2010 for a reason... it caused a problem with some package... will have to find out again what it was
  	  	ok
07:38 	oobscure  	if the triage agenda is complete, I had a question
  	Wolfpup  	the only thing i have noticed is concerning the png lib
  	Oz Linden  	So.... I did add a new 'version' in the VWR project for 'open-development'
07:39 	Wolfpup  	but that is during the linking stage and the linker gets reconfigured
  	oobscure  	"Issues that are good candidates for open source developers to take up"
  	Oz Linden  	I will be moving issues there that I think are interesting but that LL is unlikely to get to any time soon, so they would be good candidates for open devs to pick up
  	oobscure  	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR/fixforversion/11547
07:40 	Oz Linden  	yup
  	  	I have not put much there yet, but I welcome suggestions
  	  	What was your question, Opensource ?
  	oobscure  	I got a bit more comfortable with JIRA these days. Filters, dashboards etc
  	  	my question is about the testing we're doing these days against the last development builds .. vs2010 and viewer-development. In the last days I tried to use as many features as possible, but I'd suppose that testing some specific features may be more useful .. than testing other ones. If yes, which are they?
  	  	note that I'm on Linux if this is relevant
07:41 	Oz Linden  	Ah, well, actually testing almost anything is useful
  	  	Because we upgraded a bunch of the dependencies, and most of the toolchain, there's no telling what we might have broken
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	VWR-22733 suggests different possible behaviors. Has one been chosen, yet?
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-22733
VWR-22733 Avatar "Sit Here" available while falling/jumping
  	Oz Linden  	and of course, testing the new Avatar Physics is good too :-)
  	oobscure  	ok
07:42 	Oz Linden  	There were new changes to that this morning....
  	  	Seraph spent his whole weekend on it, I think
  	draconis.neurocam 	ive been running the viewer since friday and ive seen no major issues, long times for phyiscs to load on other avatars, but i wonder if it might be related to the tight pants issue as well, and yes as soon as this meeting is over i will try out todays commits
07:43 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	(VWR-22733 is the only issue 'due' for the open-development version
  	  	)
  	Wolfpup  	Boroondas i do not think Oz has had time to move things over yet
07:44 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Wolfpup, I know, but VWR-22733 looks like it needs a design/UX decision, first)
07:45 	Wolfpup  	Oz will there be a way for the OS devs to be able to properly move issues in the bug tracker
  	oobscure  	(slightly related to Wolf's question .. labels in JIRA)
  	Oz Linden  	some things will need design decisions....
  	  	if someone wants to work on them, then I'll get the required design review from LL
07:46 	  	I'm not sure what you mean by 'properly move', WP
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	probably just 'move'?
  	Oz Linden  	mostly you won't be able to do moves
07:47 	  	but if you want to work on something, let me know and when we've agreed on it then I'll move it
  	Wolfpup  	Oz STORM-1098 seems like a simple reworking oth the description in the settings xml there
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1098
STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description
07:48 	Wolfpup  	it would take longer to make a repository and all than to acutaly do the fix
  	Oz Linden  	yup... that one looks easy
07:49 	draconis.neurocam 	ShowNetStats is a very useful feature, one of the first things I turn on
  	Wolfpup  	i have it on as well
  	  	once i found it was sill avail in viewer development
07:50 	Oz Linden  	I'd like to be able to just take changes through the codereview system without a full repo, but right now, there's a bug in ReviewBoard that looses the hg meta-data when you do that
  	  	when that's fixed, then we can change our process for simple changes like this one so that no repo is needed
  	  	there is a new ReviewBoard release out... I'll look to see if that's fixed in it
07:51 	oobscure  	raises hand
  	  	we lost Borondaas
  	Oz Linden  	shoot opensource
  	oobscure  	I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
  	  	I had another question .. about Labels in JIRA - I had sent an email to opensource-dev about that on March 29. Borondaas replied me but there's room for other opinions or statements from LL
  	  	oops. sorry
  	  	Basically, I have been adding labels to many JIRA issues, seeing people already was using them (and abusing them). Then, Borondaas explained me you (Oz) had told us not to do that.
  	Oz Linden  	Yes, I owe the community a repsonse on that one
  	oobscure  	I think they're very useful and I'd like if we (users or contributors) could use them and I'm available to help with this.ù
07:52 	Oz Linden  	As far as I can tell, labels don't cost us anything, but they can be confusing
  	  	I need to have an internal discussion about the policy question...
07:53 	Wolfpup  	Oz i snaged 1098 will make a repos and all tomarrow as ill have the time to do it then
  	Oz Linden  	I'll do that this week and get something posted
  	  	I'm trying to organize a major cleanup of VWR
  	oobscure  	thanks oz.
  	draconis.neurocam 	thes much thanks indeed, lots of work on that front
  	  	yes*
  	Oz Linden  	I'd like to get rid of most of the issues there and get the rest organized
07:54 	  	any other new business ?
07:55 	draconis.neurocam 	i would also like to thank you for getting the ball rolling for updating everything in order to keep current, it was something that was majorly lacking
  	Oz Linden  	well, now that all the tools and libs are out where you can all see and use them, you can help keep them more current
  	draconis.neurocam 	precisely
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	well, I'd like to discuss how JsonCpp includes get handled, but I better start that at the mailing list ... it's a bit complicated
  	Oz Linden  	ok
07:56 	Wolfpup  	well for one thing if the open jpeg gets updated merov's testing program can give that a work out
07:57 	Oz Linden  	yes, I'd like to see some thinking about how we could use that program to build some automated tests
07:58 	Wolfpup  	it would be verry use full for updating all the image handling that gose on (compression and decompression)
  	oobscure  	is there any documentation (even in the code...) about Avatar Physics? I'm actually new to do that.
  	Oz Linden  	Merov is starting on some more work in that area...
07:59 	oobscure  	I don't even know if other TPV viewers do the same or only make breasts bouncing
  	  	also, is "Physics" a new asset type?
  	Oz Linden  	Well, I understand that KirstenLee has already ported it :-)
  	draconis.neurocam 	the way this works seems to be much better implimented and less hacky than the original third party implimentation
  	oobscure  	KirstenLee...faster than ever :)
  	Oz Linden  	It's a kind of wearable, yes
  	Tonya Souther  	We're seriously considering having it in Firestorm Preview 3.
08:00 	Office Orb  	Your timer has expired!
  	Oz Linden  	can't say I'm surprised, Tonya
  	Tonya Souther  	But, FWIW, it is our official position that LL done good by having it in the main viewer, LL got it right, and LL is to be congratulated and encouraged to do more things the users want. :3
08:01 	  	It'll just take a backport from v-d to the 2.5.2 code.
  	oobscure  	next step is to have Kinect scan our bellies .. and make our avatar bounce accordingly
  	  	:)
  	Tonya Souther  	What's the "we" stuff, kemosabe?
08:02 	Oz Linden  	Talk to Merov about the Kinect
  	oobscure  	yup :)
  	Oz Linden  	I've gotta go... see you all next time.
  	Tonya Souther  	I'm not at all sure I want to know, Oz.
  	  	Have fun!
  	draconis.neurocam 	take care oz
  	oobscure  	bye bye Oz !
  	Wolfpup  	you TC oz and see you at the scrum