Open Source Meeting/2010-04-08

== Agenda Thursday, 08 April 2010 ==
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
## 1.4 trunk: trying to build leads to errors (SNOW-600, fmod missing, fixed) which lead to new errors (bundle missing!) which pushes Merov to reexport the internal 1.23 branch... which fails building!... Aaargh... Merov working on this
## 2.0 trunk: merge and sync done by Merov. 2 categories of build problems:
### Automated build: still fails for various reasons (different on all platforms)
### Standalone builds: see thread by DZonatas, Nyx and others on various issues
## Branding script: Merov working on it though making build works everywhere is prio 1
## Build in general: We need to update the relevant wiki page(s) for 1.x and 2.x.
# TPV: Joe will held an IW meeting Tuesday, 4/13 at noon PDT: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/229/230/29
# New IW meeting: need to put that on the calendar for real. Merov to act on this.
== Transcript ==
[14:00]	:	Hi all
[14:00]	:	Shared media is a viewer 2.0 feature..
[14:00]	:	I wished that advertisment from the wiki page would be deleted. It is impossible to find information specific to viewer 2 because it is mentioned on every single wiki page.
[14:00]	:	hello
[14:00]	:	its also on the wiki, which you can open with your normal browser
[14:01]	 	digs the agenda URL
[14:01]	:	The agenda is on parcel medai which has been available for a long time.
[14:01]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:01]	:	Ah thank you
[14:02]	:	For those without shared media: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:02]	:	Yeah but when in IW chat, have hardly have time to look around at the scenery and assumes other people don't either
[14:02]	:	anyway
[14:02]	:	Item one is the hot thing on my place: builds!
[14:03]	:	it all started very casually with Aleric asking me to launch a 1.4 build...
[14:03]	:	My current build of snowglobe-trunk uses 7 patches from the jira, a few of them are mine.
[14:03]	:	and turned into a full search for resucitation 1.23
[14:04]	:	really annoying (for me) but I guess it needs to be done
[14:04]	:	so: step one is me cleaning up the 1.4 building mess
[14:05]	:	or rather: step 1 is cleaning the internal 1.23 build/export
[14:05]	:	step 2 is merge to 1.4 then step 3 build 1.4
[14:05]	:	I didn't plan to do that this week but that what it'll take
[14:06]	:	SG2.0 now: still working on building on the 3 platforms with autobuild
[14:06]	:	can't we just revert whatever broke the build? it used to work for 1.3
[14:07]	:	parcel streaming media crashes my viewer :-)
[14:07]	:	Boroondas: it's failing on unit tests now and that's not things that have changed in a long time
[14:07]	:	My gcc 4.1 build of SG2.0 just finished and complained about the same gcc 4.4 error related to libSM and libuuid: /usr/lib/gcc/i486-linux-gnu/4.1.3/../../../../lib/libSM.so: undefined reference to `uuid_generate@UUID_1.0'
[14:07]	:	so I'm puzzled as to why it breaks. Once I know why, I might indeed revert whatever lead to that
[14:08]	:	I'm assuming that I'm special and no-one else is having that problem...
[14:08]	:	Yup, im good!
[14:08]	:	ok, on SG2.0, I did a big merge from viewer-external to trunk
[14:09]	:	I've had success building locally on Mac and Windows but building with parabuild always run into problem
[14:09]	:	I've been working on that with CG
[14:09]	:	we'll get under control and that's really the prio 1 for me
[14:09]	 	waves and looks down dejectedly
[14:09]	:	hard to do anything with unstable builds...
[14:09]	:	aaaww... CG... why?
[14:10]	 	pats CG on the shoulder and offers him a juice
[14:10]	:	we'll get through those, one by one... right ? :)
[14:10]	:	㋡
[14:10]	:	it's a bit frustrating for all of us I know...
[14:11]	:	BTW, Merov, the build logs posted to sldev-commits are still not acessible from the outside world.
[14:11]	:	then there are issues for people building standalone
[14:11]	:	Took me two weeks to get a snowgblobe 2.0 built, i've been there and know the fustration.
[14:11]	:	T_brick: is that new?
[14:12]	:	I haven;t paid attention to that I need to say
[14:12]	:	since the last few weeks
[14:12]	 	wonders what changed...
[14:12]	:	since parabuild? the entire format of the mail changed so its looking like a different system
[14:12]	:	its more than a few weeks
[14:12]	:	There was a minor panic as the latest 2.0 merge suddely required PulseAudio. I managed to quickly come up with three patches that fixes it and make it optional now.
[14:13]	:	t_brick, when you say "the outside world", which access are you speaking about?
[14:13]	:	I suppose you receive the emails on sldev-commits right?
[14:14]	:	Thickbrick? ^^^
[14:14]	:	yes, I mean the url in the email. It giving me "denied" error.
[14:14]	:	Ah... I see....
[14:15]	:	for example: http://s3.amazonaws.com/viewer-source-downloads/2010/trunk/3286/failed-build.Linux
[14:15]	:	yeap, I get the same denied error
[14:15]	:	so it's not just "the outside world"
[14:15]	:	heh
[14:16]	:	I guess that the URL is all bogus
[14:16]	:	I think the file exiss, or it would be giving a 404.
[14:16]	:	I need to confess I use the parabuild web interface directly, never those links, that's why I didn't realize that was broken
[14:16]	:	*exists
[14:17]	:	hi all
[14:17]	:	S3 is giving this kind of error for anything bogus, no 404 AFAIK
[14:18]	:	try editing the file name in the URL, you'll see
[14:18]	:	last acessible build log for SG1.x was r3225, on march 12
[14:18]	:	hey CG
[14:18]	 	looks up
[14:18]	:	it has a "no such key" and "acess denied"
[14:18]	:	interesting
[14:19]	:	right, "access denied" / "no such key", different errors
[14:19]	:	it depens whether that part of the tree is browsable
[14:19]	:	of it's not, then you just get access denied
[14:19]	 	bets its ACL settings for uploaded logs
[14:20]	:	if it is browsable, S3 will be more helpful
[14:20]	:	s/its/it's/
[14:21]	:	ok, so, we do have a bunch of build issues and fixing them is my prio 1
[14:21]	:	which, I think, is the right prio for it...
[14:21]	:	good url: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3225/failed-build.Linux 
bad url: http://secondlife.com/developers/opensource/downloads/2010/trunk/3286/failed-build.Linux
[14:22]	:	we *should* create a good wiki for building and I know there are a couple of such wiki around
[14:22]	:	oh wow, philip was online today i see :o
[14:22]	:	which one is the reference build wiki you guys are using?
[14:22]	:	ow wow
[14:23]	:	echt waar?
[14:23]	:	oh this is local lol
[14:23]	 	giggles
[14:23]	:	his booth at the bar has wifi now? awesome!
[14:23]	 	falls out of chair laughing
[14:23]	:	As of lately, I use https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_and_Patching_Snowglobe_(Linux)
[14:24]	 	key: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.
[14:24]	:	there are multiple then merov?
[14:24]	:	Thickbrick, clicking on that link causes my brower to download a file. It that a text file?
[14:24]	:	kinda havnt really being paying attention lately, RL stuff...
[14:24]	:	you're not using https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%28Linux%29
[14:24]	:	Techwolf, yes the good url is a very long text file, yes.
[14:24]	:	yes Youri, there are multiple and I think we should refactor all that
[14:24]	:	thank you :)
[14:25]	:	My pleasure
[14:25]	:	should be 1 indeed merov, 2 or more get confusing
[14:25]	:	some parts are shared between those 2 pages (found that the hard way, by fumbling wiki edits)
[14:26]	:	true Thickbrick
[14:26]	:	I really think we're making that too complicated
[14:26]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile has links to most build-related articles
[14:26]	:	its not helping that 2.0 has its own set of hoops, so its different information again
[14:26]	:	that's where I get mine Boroondas
[14:26]	:	:)
[14:27]	:	I think there sould be one wiki page for each OS as each of them has there own build instructions.
[14:27]	:	Robin: true
[14:27]	:	Techwolf : +1
[14:27]	:	the last refactor started as one page per os, then forked as we have express gotchas for windows and standalone for linux :-(
[14:27]	:	I think we should revise and make up to date the https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_(platform)
[14:27]	:	wiki pages
[14:27]	:	actually, nowadays the build instructions should be nearly the same on all OSes, just different dependencies
[14:28]	:	Good call, Tec
[14:28]	:	It will still be easer for someone to follow if its one OS per page instead is trying to figure out the logic on one huge building page.
[14:28]	:	Tech notes to build step-by-step: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Dzonatas_Sol/Snowglobe
[14:28]	:	It's true, we should make the common part clear
[14:29]	:	Dzonatas: we all developed our own secret sauce :)
[14:29]	:	If somebody comes up with a "compile 2.0 on VS2008 from a SVN checkout" recipe, I would like to be a guinea pig. So far, I'm a big FAIL.
[14:30]	:	That could belong on a page of its own. re:Latha
[14:30]	 	look sideway at CG at the mention of VS2008....
[14:30]	:	>.<
[14:30]	:	is 2008 still problematic? i though i saw someone got it working no boost hell
[14:30]	:	Doesn't VS2008 and up support 64-bit builds?
[14:31]	:	By support, you have to jump through unnecessary hoops still
[14:31]	:	sure would be handy to have 64bit support
[14:31]	:	NickeyP mentioned it worked 2008 worked fo rhim (upto packaging, though)
[14:31]	:	currently 64bit support is still a problem
[14:31]	:	uhm i thought it was all a matter of the having the right lib paths in teh build settings! :)
[14:31]	:	yea he kept hitting the same packaging issues, there are a bunch of niggles
[14:31]	:	Well, VS2008 is no the compiler we use internally so all its oddities are not well taken into account in our build
[14:32]	:	but, we need to bite that bullet one day...
[14:32]	:	will it come in the next version then?
[14:32]	:	i just patched out the VC run time from manifest
[14:32]	:	or end of this year at least...
[14:32]	:	Robin, I think a valid recipe can easily be made to exist, but is scattered on many pages, and 6 hours later I was still failing. This was a couple of weeks ago.
[14:32]	:	I don't know "when" exactly
[14:32]	:	2010 is coming out in a couple of months ;)
[14:32]	:	Oh Merov, i had cooked a patch to install the MSCV runtimes in the winSxS location from Nullsoft installer... but...
[14:32]	:	last time I checked, we had problems with Incredibuild that we use (and love) internally
[14:32]	:	My last SG2 compile attempt last week failed on Boost incompatibility
[14:32]	:	2010 drops winSxS again
[14:33]	:	Morgaine, use gcc 4.3.x and boost <=1.41
[14:33]	:	CG, you looking rather... female from where my cam is... o_0
[14:33]	:	:p
[14:34]	:	well atleast you wont ahve to ask for permission then, right CG ;)
[14:34]	:	perhaps LL should sip 2008 then altogether, and go to 2010 when 2005 becomes too obsolete then
[14:34]	:	OK, I'll check again if there's an ETA or plan for switching to VS2008 and what's blocking (beyond inertia..)
[14:34]	 	key: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.
[14:34]	:	snow 2.0 will not build wiht any combo of boost and gcc 4.4.x OR any gcc and boost 1.42.
[14:35]	:	Tech standalone?
[14:35]	:	I thought the main blockage for 2008 was the boost prebuilt packages, but that looks to be sorted now.
[14:35]	:	OK so, that was for my update on "what the heck has been Merov doing?"
[14:35]	:	:-)
[14:35]	:	Thickbrick, i think the remaining issues are just silly manifest and other python-foo
[14:36]	:	Tech: (meets your vresions spec, yet fails) --> 
 dev-libs/boost
[14:36]	:	I really hope to get out of this build mess soon and go to merging 1.x feature, taking of patches, etc...
[14:36]	:	robin, defentlly standalone. !standalone uses 1.39 boost and can work with gcc upto 4.4.x, snow 1.x can use gcc 4.4.x
[14:36]	:	Tech my 2.0 builds on gcc 4.4.3 work fine
[14:36]	:	gcc 4.4 didn't complain about boost on sg2.0 with my build
[14:37]	:	any question on this? comment? before we move with the rest of the agenda
[14:37]	:	I've been building !standalone with gcc 4.4.3, but not sure now if I changed anything in the prebuilt boost or not (boost-coroutine being the imediate suspect)
[14:38]	:	Morgaine, let me check and make sure they didn't hard code 1.39 and above. I had one user using 1.35 and the build failed due some headers changes between 1.35 and 1.39.
[14:38]	:	cool
[14:39]	:	k, looks like we're all over those build problems... next...
[14:39]	:	I got about a half dozes patches sitting in pjira that fixes build problems.
[14:39]	:	TPV: Joe set up an IW meeting for Q&A
[14:40]	:	It'll be an informal Q&A session, held in voice
[14:40]	:	voice does NOT work
[14:40]	:	I know there's a doc (actually 2) floating around with proposed modifs
[14:40]	:	think voice is no part of sl lol
[14:40]	:	So I can't participate if it's in voice
[14:41]	:	voice is first life :)
[14:41]	:	so are lawyers
[14:41]	:	Also, who'll be the poor guy to do the transscript when it's in voice?
[14:42]	:	anyway, go there and ask Joe your questions, etc...
[14:42]	:	Boroondas: that is the point of doing it in voice: no transcript
[14:42]	:	I hear Voice, but Voice is not adequate for such topics, need to be able to read the words, and write input.
[14:42]	:	Let's answer Joe on-list, and raise the voice and transcript issue
[14:43]	:	it's really hard to type long answers
[14:43]	:	+1 Morg
[14:43]	:	voice fails lately with me, besides my mic problems (which is temp fixed) i often dont hear others or voicce server refuses to connect me
[14:43]	:	You can type and hear at the same time with a simple tool
[14:43]	:	this happened on 1.23, 2.0 and emerald
[14:43]	:	so it can not be me
[14:43]	:	its voice...
[14:44]	:	vivox just sucks for linux
[14:44]	:	no support
[14:44]	:	im on windows
[14:44]	:	clean install
[14:44]	:	Ok, it just sucks.
[14:44]	:	SLVoice hasn't worked on linux since SG1.4
[14:44]	:	voice siriously needs a close up look
[14:44]	:	So does IM chat
[14:44]	:	As a Linux user I can confidently say alot of sound related stuff in general sucks on Linux.
[14:45]	:	no one can use voice on Linux?
[14:45]	:	i can
[14:45]	:	I can
[14:45]	:	chat in general that is
[14:45]	:	if i go to an older viewer
[14:45]	:	Works for me (32 bit)
[14:45]	:	i listen music
[14:45]	:	I could, but not any longer.
[14:45]	:	hihi
[14:45]	:	I have voice in linux, but not without its problems.
[14:45]	:	I can, though not right now, because sound is blocked by a previously crashed SL, I think.
[14:45]	:	Putting Aleric's (Linux) and Youri's (Windows) comments together == Vivox just sucks on all :-)
[14:45]	:	gotta reboot
[14:45]	:	but I have to tell teh Os to allow the voice on client to take precidence since it does not play well with others
[14:45]	:	what's specific to Aleric then that it doesn't work for him
[14:45]	:	?
[14:45]	:	besides the voice and chat problem
[14:46]	:	2.0 refuses to let me connect!!!!
[14:46]	:	? ? ?
[14:46]	 	is using Mac OS X
[14:46]	:	A good alternitive is the presenter to use media audio stream the the listers can use local chat for feedback. There are many seperate programs that can play a media audio stream.
[14:46]	:	im forced to use 1.23 or emerald
[14:46]	:	some of the issues are related to specific openal versions used by vivox
[14:46]	:	YAY!
[14:46]	:	snowglobe fails lately as well
[14:47]	:	Merov: the Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field makes Voice work on yours, that's different ;-)
[14:47]	:	Youri: which platform? it's really puzzling
[14:47]	:	microsoft vista 64bit
[14:47]	:	Robin: If you know how I can get SLVoice to work on my platform (debian testing, amd64) then now is the time to tell me :)
[14:47]	:	oh well
[14:47]	:	Sence vixvox has one customer, LL. Soujld LL just buy them out and fix the issues?
[14:47]	:	That may be part of an issue
[14:47]	:	Aleric have you tried my debs?
[14:47]	:	if that method fails then i don't know
[14:47]	:	Merov, I gotta leave soon. You wanted to comment on last week's topic on the mailing list, will you do that?
[14:48]	:	just sended the complete stats of my pc merov
[14:48]	:	Vivox has other customers too
[14:48]	:	BTW anyone testing voice here and now, please look at parcel flags ;-)
[14:48]	:	Since SG1.4/V2.0.. SLVoice connects yet doesn't seem to connect to the right channel in-world, then it retries connection after a minute, and loops like that]
[14:48]	:	Boroondas: you mean, the extra IW meeting?
[14:49]	:	no, the line endings etc.
[14:49]	:	i installed it clean 2 weeks ago, so should be good
[14:49]	:	no virus or junk found, so cant be that
[14:49]	:	its the viewer somehow
[14:49]	:	I test voice at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Voice%20Echo%20Canyon/128/128/2
[14:49]	:	ooo... right: I'll do that. I actually ran into several problem wrt LF in both hg and svn
[14:49]	:	ok, just so it doesn't get forgotten
[14:50]	:	I know what's wrong... it's all Aimee's fault.
[14:50]	:	svn
[14:50]	:	I know more than I wish I did on this now :p
[14:50]	:	lol
[14:50]	:	lol
[14:50]	:	:-P
[14:50]	:	dont blaim poor aimee :p
[14:50]	:	Il est important d'être Aimée
[14:50]	:	yup, it's all my fault, that's what I'm here for
[14:50]	:	Oh, just remember, I notice that snowglobe 2.0 trunk has the excuate (+x) bit set on all files.
[14:50]	:	J'aime croissant, vin, et Aimee :-)
[14:51]	:	ok, gotta go
[14:51]	 	waves
[14:51]	:	for that matter, ATI drivers are gone bad again, any viewer i try crashes with a black screen, i do see the UI and propperty lines, but rest is black and very laggy
[14:51]	:	Techwolf: hmm... may be something I did wrong when creating the first drop...
[14:52]	:	perhaps a new one for ATI drivers?
[14:52]	:	wonders how though?
[14:53]	:	last item was: extra new meeting on Tuesday
[14:53]	:	For example, the contrube.txt:
[14:53]	:	Add missing doc/contributions.txt for last two commits
[14:53]	:	since Aleric is here today (yeah! :) ) may be we can ask him which time would be best
[14:53]	:	I just spotted a new(?) bug: I can't see the legs of about half the people here. Reason is probably the alpha ordering bug. I guess that the texture of the stone of the things we're sitting on has an alpha channel (why for Gods sake?), and so do the avatars these days. Imho, it is a bug that avatars are treated as having an alpha channel?
[14:54]	:	Merov: time best for what?
[14:54]	:	meeting on Tuesday
[14:54]	:	Aleric, that bug is cause by avatar imposters.
[14:54]	:	I think that's an impostor problem,
[14:54]	:	Ah ok
[14:54]	:	avatar imposters most likely
[14:54]	:	mmm if these structures had alpha they would turn red when you enable highlight alpha
[14:55]	:	especially noticeable on peope with large tails
[14:55]	:	Ah yes, it was imposters sorry :*)
[14:55]	:	O.o (Oo)
[14:55]	:	aight, ill be off to oskar, thanks for the meeting Lindens
[14:55]	:	bye bye all
[14:55]	 	thinks that red for alpha is an old "rubylith" heritage
[14:56]	:	Joe Linden wants the TPV OH to happen at noon.... just a reminder to schedule around
[14:56]	:	hmm... it refuses to tp....
[14:56]	:	Merov: Meeting on Tuesdays? Great. For me good times would be 11-12 or 2-3.
[14:56]	:	sure, I *think* Aleric wished to meet later...
[14:56]	:	bye!
[14:56]	:	bye.. (bye ..)
[14:57]	:	2-3 like now?
[14:57]	:	nope
[14:57]	:	Safe journies
[14:57]	:	3th time no go
[14:57]	:	yes
[14:57]	:	that's OK with me
[14:57]	:	back to home (pooley stage) also no go
[14:57]	:	convenient even
[14:57]	:	perhaps a problem lindens!
[14:57]	:	so I'll post a message on that and put it on the calendar
[14:57]	:	same place
[14:57]	:	:)
[14:57]	:	Great! :)
[14:58]	:	so sometime I just wish I'd go visit other places...
[14:58]	:	Hold it in my open source park opposite corner ;-)
[14:58]	 	yearns for the vast world...
[14:58]	:	Can you explain again what the purpose of those meetings is? :*)
[14:58]	:	Oh wow...I just loaded up the new snowbglboe 2.0 and the chat window is trashparent on non-foucus.
[14:58]	:	Aleric, which meetings? the Joe ones?
[14:58]	:	Sweet! :D
[14:59]	:	Aleric: SG update, dev issues, whatever dev related you want to discuss :)
[14:59]	:	No, the new ones on Tuesdays, those are like this one right? "Open source meetings"
[14:59]	:	yes just a 2nd one
[14:59]	:	twice a week
[14:59]	:	We could hold it in OSgrid or 3rd Rock Grid or in ReactionGrid :-)
[14:59]	 	pats Latha ()
[14:59]	:	Aleric: yes, to allow more people to come
[14:59]	:	Ah ok, I thought it was like only to determine the importance of current jira's
[14:59]	:	lots couldn't make it on Thursdays
[14:59]	:	what time did we say?
[15:00]	:	We need a snowglobe pjira meeting, many jira and patches are setting untouched.
[15:00]	:	2 to 3 Robin (I think)
[15:00]	:	if we have an extra meeting, we should certainly have time to go through specific JIRAs
[15:00]	:	that would be nice actually
[15:00]	 	looks sheepish at the backlog she has not processed
[15:00]	:	I have a favourite snowglobe jira that's bothering me..
[15:00]	:	and hmm oh, i found a bug in the socks proxy code ;-(
[15:00]	 	key: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.
[15:00]	:	I hope that my water patch will make it to the official viewer, soon. I already committed it to SG 1.4 and to emerald.
[15:01]	:	just assigned them all to me with blame and consider done did
[15:01]	:	I saw that Aleric :)
[15:01]	:	(it has an algorithm to determine the water height of void water, should be the same on all viewers)
[15:01]	:	mmm what water patch? :)
[15:01]	 	giggles
[15:01]	:	I've been trying to build that $&@ 1.4 since you last asked me...
[15:01]	:	What is the problem?
[15:02]	:	Heading to UXIG, for what might be the last UXIG meeting in SL. Take care folks :-)
[15:02]	:	Cyu Merov :-) (Cyu Merovech :-))
[15:02]	:	Later!
[15:02]	:	T Linden mentioned that there will be non-support of 1.x after 2.1 release
[15:02]	 	agonizes...
[15:02]	:	we had fmod (solved) then 1.23 bundles disappeared so I tried to build them again but now 1.23 build internal is failing...
[15:02]	:	rea;lly?
[15:02]	:	im afraid many leave then
[15:02]	:	:(
[15:02]	:	Dzonatas: may be if you call support as a customer
[15:02]	:	Melvin: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12984
[15:02]	:	[#VWR-12984] 1.23: Water flickers and disappears in patches
[15:03]	:	but the code base is still out there and alive...
[15:03]	:	I definitely won't be switching to viewer 2, at least not how it is today.
[15:03]	:	T Lindens needs his ass kicked .... says /me while departing :P
[15:03]	:	offical main viewer will stop, and there is no reason SG1.4 can't live longer
[15:03]	:	Merov, thanks for code support =)
[15:03]	:	my job Dzonatas
[15:03]	:	i hope emerald keeps working, i dont like 2.0 to be honest...
[15:03]	:	i actually don't mind the viewer 2.0.... excepti t's just still not as good as emerald, not enough features, so i don't want to use it... visually and usability is not bad.
[15:04]	 	is a minority
[15:04]	:	I think 1.4 repository should stay online until the majority of the committers say it's ok to delete it
[15:04]	:	Aleric: +1
[15:04]	:	i think the repository should not go anywhere
[15:04]	:	that was the intent all along... that's why it's there
[15:04]	:	we just stop building at *some* point
[15:04]	:	And I won't say that is ok until I'm happy with 2.0 and using it (ie, around 2.2 maybe)
[15:05]	:	Maybe plan a freeze on anything older than 1.4
[15:05]	:	1.3 is final anyway i think?
[15:05]	:	k guys, I need to attend this parabuild deluge of fail ... grrrr....
[15:05]	:	I still didn't even GET 2.0. I'm still working on 1.4, and if anyone feels like porting my patches to 2.0, then go ahead, if you must :p *stuborn*
[15:06]	:	yeah, anything older than 1.4 is already frozen.
[15:06]	:	Aleric, two minutes of voice questions... have you tried my debs for snowglobe and voice?
[15:06]	:	Robin: no... if you want to talk me through it I can try :/
[15:06]	:	i think there will come more updates of emerald :)
[15:06]	:	one feature *I* like in 2.0 is the landmarks in the top bar. Super time saver for me TPing around!
[15:06]	:	hihi
[15:06]	:	apt.byteme.org.uk unstable main
[15:06]	:	and people will use that...
[15:06]	:	apt-get install snowglobe omvviewer-voice
[15:07]	:	there's quite a few little handy things in the viewer, just a couple problems really
[15:07]	:	Robin: surely that will use ~/.secondlife ?
[15:07]	:	I just want a snapshot to twitpic =p
[15:07]	:	Unfortunately I just can't take the crippling design flaws just for a couple conveniences.
[15:07]	:	I find myself wondering what I missed during the service outage. :-(
[15:07]	:	i mean, besides just plain not having features that every other client has ;) other than that, i like some of 2.0
[15:07]	:	let me check, i think i made it use ~./snowglobe
[15:08]	 	Box : SL Exchange - Delivered item [NVE] Sculpted Sand Dune - Boxed (no-transfer).
[15:08]	:	see you Tuesday same time guys :)
[15:08]	:	~./snowglobeomv/
[15:08]	:	Fare well
 
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