Mesh/Archive/2013-01-07

==Agenda==
#Is there any way of getting relevant new information attached to an existing BUG report after it has been "Accepted"?Drongle McMahon
#Can you give us any information about the impending release and date of materials (normal and specular mapping)? Additionally, can you provide any timeframe for an official release of the mesh clothing deformer?Maxwell Graf 11:17, 7 January 2013 (PST)Maxwell Graf
# When the materials system comes on line will it be possible to get stats on how many people are using Deferred Render (Lighting & Sharows)? That would give us some idea of how many can see stuff using Materials and how important it would be to have good fall back for those not using it. Nalates Urriah 12:09, 7 January 2013 (PST)
# any word on the upload fix for sl browser , i upload anything once fine , but try to upload anything again it crashes every time 4
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*ac14 Hutson (ac14.hutson)
*Aki Shichiroji (aki.shichiroji)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Bull4Wife (bull4wife)
*Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead)
*Dilbert Dilweg (dilbert.dilweg)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes)
*Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)
*Gramma Fiddlesticks (gramma.fiddlesticks)
*Exotix (inara.pey)
*JunkoZane Kurmin (junkozane.kurmin)
*Maxwell Graf (maxwell.graf)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Rex Cronon (rex.cronon)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Siana Gearz (siana.gearz)
*Sloan Drammond (sloan.drammond)
*symbolsinsky (symbolsinsky)
*Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)
*Theresa Tennyson (theresa.tennyson)
*Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)
==Transcript for Monday January 7, 2013==
[12:02]	Nyx Linden 	Welcome to 2013!
[12:02]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	Hiya Tank!
[12:02]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	heya nyx
[12:03]	Second Life 	An error has occurred while trying to connect to voice chat for Content Creator UG. Please try again later.
[12:03]	Nyx Linden 	Please post your topics for discussion on the agenda here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:04]	Nyx Linden 	First topic: "Is there any way of getting relevant new information attached to an existing BUG report after it has been "Accepted"?Drongle McMahon"
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	this is for the BUG progject?
[12:05]	Drongle McMahon 	Yes
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	to my knowledge there is not a way beyond filing a new bug and linking the two.
[12:06]	Drongle McMahon 	Hmm
[12:06]	Aki Shichiroji 	ugh. brb. need to go handle something :/
[12:06]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I have done it by emailing Alexa Linden and asking to reopen with a copy of what I planned to add.
[12:06]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	when something gets accepted, it gets moved to MAINT
[12:06]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i think the info in there is what he after
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	Nal, that probably works, but I doubt it scales :)
[12:06]	Drongle McMahon 	...where I can't see it.
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	That's how the current system is configured
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	I'm finding so many unexpected "features"I'm finding so many unexpected "features" of triangle-based physics weights that I can't catalogue them all.
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	Whoops
[12:10]	symbolsinsky 	omgsh
[12:10]	symbolsinsky 	hi
[12:10]	symbolsinsky 	lol
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	I'll do my best to pass along the ones you are able to isolate
[12:10]	symbolsinsky 	did i tp to wrong place
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon 	I wish I could look at the relevant code from the server, so that I might understand it.
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	ill leave sorry guys
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	lol
[12:11]	Dilbert Dilweg 	depends on what you are looking for lol;
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	this is an open meeting
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	for content creation topics, the agenda is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	open what does that mean
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	?
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	anyone is welcome to attend
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	oo nice
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	if you have topics to discuss, add them to the wiki page
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	ok
[12:11]	Prep Linden 	symbolinsky: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:11]	symbolsinsky 	thank you
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "Can you give us any information about the impending release and date of materials (normal and specular mapping)? Additionally, can you provide any timeframe for an official release of the mesh clothing deformer?Maxwell Graf 11:17, 7 January 2013 (PST)Maxwell Graf"
[12:12]	Nyx Linden 	I have not personally gotten updates on either of those projects recently. Oz would know more
[12:12]	Rex Cronon 	hello everybody
[12:12]	Dilbert Dilweg 	:/
[12:12]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Oz is talking with management to see if he is going to get some staff to help with testing the deformer.
[12:12]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	Oz said the repo for materials should be public by the end of the month or so
[12:12]	Maxwell Graf 	*cries in my scotch*
[12:13]	symbolsinsky 	i know this is off topic but is anyone going to fix the viewers so they dont run so slow and laggy
[12:13]	Drongle McMahon 	Or Geenz?
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	if you log into the wiki, you should be able to edit the page
[12:14]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i think the login account name for you will be sarahrayner resident
[12:14]	Dilbert Dilweg 	.
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	so sounds like Nal and Tankmaster have the latest on those projects.
[12:15]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	whoops! was a bit busy
[12:15]	Siana Gearz 	hello, therapy group.
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	Oz is the one who is keeping track of those, so feel free to ask him for more details
[12:15]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	theres geenz :P
[12:15]	Siana Gearz 	hello Nyanobot Linden
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "When the materials system comes on line will it be possible to get stats on how many people are using Deferred Render (Lighting & Sharows)? That would give us some idea of how many can see stuff using Materials and how important it would be to have good fall back for those not using it. Nalates Urriah 12:09, 7 January 2013 (PST)"
[12:15]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	Hi Siana. =)
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	I'll ask around to see if we can share that kind of statistic when it is released.
[12:16]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	LL is currently tracking how many have differed enabled with runitai's recent rendering changes
[12:16]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	It would help me. Probbly other builders too.
[12:16]	Dilbert Dilweg 	yes
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	noted! I'll pass on the request :)
[12:17]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i dont remember if thats in 3.4.3 or 3.4.2
[12:17]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i think its in 3.4.3
[12:17]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	(and later obviously)
[12:18]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	runitai is also tracking how many have differed enabled
[12:18]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	and shadows i ment
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	alright that's all the topics on the wiki
[12:18]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Out of curiosity how many here have L&S enabled?
[12:18]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I do
[12:18]	Exotix (inara.pey) 	Yup
[12:18]	ac14 Hutson 	I do. shadows turned off though.
[12:18]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	not me.
[12:18]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i usually do, but currently im on an intel hd 4000, differed has issues
[12:19]	Theresa Tennyson 	Same here, L+S w/o cast shadows.
[12:19]	‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes) 	Hello all
[12:19]	Theresa Tennyson 	Did other people crash?
[12:19]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	not me
[12:19]	Nyx Linden 	any other topics for today?
[12:19]	Sloan Drammond 	i do for pictures ....but not normally
[12:19]	Dilbert Dilweg 	Just you
[12:19]	Rex Cronon 	hi
[12:19]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	they really autoo to use a different name than "lighting and shadows" do to it doesnt actually enable shadows... just enables the capability to enable shadows
[12:20]	Nyx Linden 	aha I see a new one
[12:20]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	:P
[12:20]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	:P
[12:20]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "any word on the upload fix for sl browser , i upload anything once fine , but try to upload anything again it crashes every time 4"
[12:20]	Rex Cronon 	i haven't crahed bu is lagy lik in hel for e:(
[12:20]	ac14 Hutson 	and introduce a settable limit on pixel lights :p
[12:20]	Theresa Tennyson 	I was wondering - would sending mesh information to arriving avatars possibly affect net time for a simulator?
[12:20]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	the crashing is do to having things like skydrive or other ckoud services installed
[12:21]	Rex Cronon 	but is laggy like in hell for me:(
[12:21]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i think 3.4.4 has tcmalloc disabled again so hopefully that will fix the issues on uploading
[12:21]	symbolsinsky 	i think singularity is the best viewer to use if u lag
[12:21]	Dilbert Dilweg 	I have found the crashing after first upload also can involve the SLM files
[12:21]	Nyx Linden 	not sure who posted this topic (add a few Nyx Linden after your topic to automatically add your name), but what kind of uploads are you getting crashes on?
[12:21]	Siana Gearz 	x.x
[12:22]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	it was me and it does not matter what is uploaded
[12:22]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	JunkoZane Kurmin posted the topic...
[12:22]	‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes) 	DD 5
[12:23]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	thats not a crash, thats a disconnect
[12:23]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	currently, the viewer stalls when you have the window open to pick a file, if the viewer doesnt respond back to the server in a certain amount of time, the server assumes the viewer is no longer open and killes the connection
[12:23]	Nyx Linden 	Are you uploading images? sounds? meshes?
[12:24]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	it does not matter what is uploaded
[12:24]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	mesh upload uses a seperate thread for that, so the viewer can carry on while you pick a file, but the other asset types dont. something that realy auto to be fixed
[12:25]	Siana Gearz 	.oO(we fixed it years ago. also i think we're no longer affected by SkyDrive issue. but we can't upload mesh yet)
[12:25]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	it bring up my files on computer fine first time but if i try to upload anything next it fails to bring up my computer file window and crashes
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	have you filed a bug in JIRA for this crash JunkoZane?
[12:26]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	no sorry i have not i thought it was common
[12:26]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	yes
[12:26]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	heard mesh group moaning about it
[12:27]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	its only common if you have other types of apps installed, JZ, like skydrive
[12:27]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	no just sl browser is all i use
[12:27]	Nyx Linden 	there are a couple of potential crashers, we'd have to look at a crash log to know which one you are being affected by (or if it is a new type)
[12:27]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	i dont trust any others
[12:28]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	skydrive isnt a viewer for SL
[12:28]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	new sl brower
[12:28]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	its a program to upload files to a cloud storage
[12:30]	Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead) 	havok does liquid?
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	we're always working on making things look better, but not all features can be turned on for all machines. As for splash effects, that can be a bit trickier to do than one would think in a user-generated world :)
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	but its certainly a valid feature request if you'd like to write it up
[12:31]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	adding those effects will also further degrade rendering performance
[12:32]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	though it would make things look mroe real
[12:32]	Dilbert Dilweg 	true
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	How can we submit feature requests now?
[12:32]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	file it as a bug report
[12:32]	Siana Gearz 	mhm it could be done OK... i mean.. whenever you update position, check whether object's dimensions cross the water altitude. depending on that, spawn a round horizontal particle of splash. limit number of splash particles just like camera-oriented particles are limited.
[12:33]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	They are entered as a BUG. Put Feature Request in the title. They will get closed pretty quickly as they get moved to the internal tracking.
[12:33]	Siana Gearz 	very cheap, very cheesy, but, splashies.
[12:33]	Rex Cronon 	i use v1.23.5. what did u guys change? for me it all started at maestro group meeting on beta grid last thursday. it was/is ubelivable laggy:( i can use firefox without problem(for other sites) but i have a ping sim of close to 27000 milliseconds:(
[12:34]	Dilbert Dilweg 	Morgan :) g'day
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	ok I'm not seeing any additional topics on the wiki, anything else before we wrap up for the day?
[12:34]	‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes) 	ciao everyone, nice to meet you all
[12:34]	‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes) 	have a great day, and BE NICE TO THE LINDENS :)
[12:34]	Maxwell Graf 	need a refill, and back to work. Have a good day all.
[12:34]	Rex Cronon 	tc
[12:34]	Bull4Wife 	hey! I'm brand new and been in this world in this game and world for ten minutes...WHat can you guys tell me!
[12:34]	‚Ñëoke‚Ñú (filminguy.reyes) 	please ;)~
[12:34]	Maxwell Graf 	...HOLA!!...
[12:34]	Sloan Drammond 	nice to meet you all , thanks
[12:35]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i think you said earlier you had another batch of work to add to sunshine?
[12:35]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	when will that get added?
[12:35]	Sloan Drammond 	hellos
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	there are a couple more fixes, I need to make sure that the repository is in a stable state
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	sorry Sarah, I don't see your question there, could you paste it here please?
[12:36]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	ok
[12:37]	Dilbert Dilweg 	invisible is normally due to missing or too many materials or flipped normals
[12:37]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Sarah, there are several possibilities. There are a umber of answers to that qusetion in Sl Forum Creative-Mesh
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	well if your mesh is coming in and isn't colliding, you probably need to define a physics shape for it
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	if it is invisible, check your materials settings or your normals
[12:38]	Sloan Drammond 	its normally normals faceing the wrong way
[12:38]	Nyx Linden 	and verify you've set a non-invisible texture for each face.
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	If your normals are reversed they can be fixed in Blender. Also, Analyzie in the upload will fix some problems.
[12:40]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Which Blender version?
[12:40]	Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead) 	question: any plans to implement non avatar rigging for jointed objects?
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	we'd have to look at your specific mesh file to get into specific detail, though there are some good troubleshooting guides out there, and several helpful discussion groups
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Doo you gave GLSL display mode on with "backface culling" selected? That will give you a good idea of how the object will look in SL when it comes to normals, etc.
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*Do
[12:41]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	That one or 2.57 has some problems.... 2.65 should be ok. It has worked for me.
[12:42]	Dilbert Dilweg 	Sarah have you tried to use the " recalculate normals " button in blender on the mesh?
[12:43]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Be sure you display normals not just look at solid or textured render.
[12:43]	Dilbert Dilweg 	I would suggest doing that in blender before export.
[12:43]	Drongle McMahon 	How many triangles in the mesh?
[12:43]	Prep Linden 	Commander Gearhead: we'd love to add non av rigging but it's not something we're actively working on, atm.
[12:44]	Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead) 	great ok thank you
[12:44]	Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead) 	wishful thinking :)
[12:44]	Dilbert Dilweg 	We would love that too heheheh
[12:44]	Rex Cronon 	sad:(
[12:44]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	Question / animating textures on mesh : anybody noticed you can only do one face at a time ? anybody know any fixes for this
[12:46]	ac14 Hutson 	that is a limitation of animated textures. you get one face or all faces
[12:46]	ac14 Hutson 	its the same on normal prims
[12:46]	JunkoZane Kurmin 	ok thx cleared that up cheers
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	alright, not hearing any other topics, that will wrap up the official portion of the meeting today.
[12:47]	Phoenix-Firestorm Viewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	have a good week everyone
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx Nyx. Happy New Year.
[12:47]	Siana Gearz 	‚ô•
[12:47]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	Bye folks!
[12:47]	Mesh Tester (commander.gearhead) 	‚ô•
[12:47]	Aki Shichiroji 	Thanks Lindens :)
[12:47]	Exotix (inara.pey) 	Thanks, Nyx.
[12:47]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	thanks for the meeting Linden's =)
[12:47]	Nyx Linden 	See everyone next week!
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