Bug triage/2009-05-11/Transcript

* [12:04] Kona Linden: Alrighty, let's get this show on the road: 
* [12:04] Dirk Talamasca: Kona.. no news is good news
* [12:04] Raveka Krimmer: Coconut Cream.. Strawberry.. apple... oh not that kind of pie menu?
* [12:05] Aimee Trescothick: just wants the cake menu
* [12:05] Uni Ninetails: Right click -> More -> Order Pie.
* [12:05] Soft Linden: hey hey hey
* [12:05] Moon Metty: lol Uni
* [12:05] Harleen Gretzky: Hi Soft
* [12:06] Moon Metty: hi Soft :)
* [12:06] Uni Ninetails: :)
* [12:06] Raveka Krimmer: Well they allowed pizza ordering from everquest long long ago..
* [12:06] Kona Linden: Let's start with Fast Track Import: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3561
* [12:06] Morgaine Dinova: That's a good point about menus, they should be in named setups so that you can reset to default for support and then switch back to your prior setup. Projects like Imprudence are doing that poorly, by redefining the menus wholesale.
* [12:06] Kona Linden: Blue Dialogs can overload the viewer.
* [12:06] Harleen Gretzky: This was imported a while ago, but there is some controversy about whether it was fixed and if it was whether only llLoadURL was fixed,
* [12:06] Moon Metty: it looks like Darling deleted a part of the description yesterday
* [12:07] Raveka Krimmer: Well.. let's see.. I use to have that issue long ago..
* [12:07] Harleen Gretzky: Stuff pertaining to her products
* [12:07] Moon Metty: claiming the issue used to be about something else ..
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:08] Soft Linden: Odd, this one is already imported - looking for why it's not coming up on the internal triage list...
* [12:08] Harleen Gretzky: yes, she claims it was only about llLoadURL, but the change history does not support that
* [12:08] Uni Ninetails: Tiny bit off topic i like being able to click an objects name in chat that communicates with you and find out whom its owner is and mute etc. (rc1)
* [12:09] Techwolf Lupindo: Much need feature. It delayed me by sever minutes trying to find out who object was spamming so I could eject/ban.
* [12:09] Soft Linden: For VWR-3561, I commented internally, seeing if I can unstick it
* [12:10] Kona Linden: kk
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: thanks Soft :)
* [12:10] Raveka Krimmer: Hammers work well to unstick things *giggles*
* [12:10] Kona Linden: Shall we link it to VWR-3561 as well?
* [12:10] Erinyse Planer: laughs at rave
* [12:10] Morgaine Dinova: Well, *anything* can overload the viewer. It's all about resource management.
* [12:10] Erinyse Planer: i think we should
* [12:11] Raveka Krimmer: I agree
* [12:12] Latif Khalifa: lol went into appearance instead of edit hud... again.... grrrrrr
* [12:12] Moon Metty: hehehe
* [12:12] Moon Metty: at least you're still visible
* [12:13] Techwolf Lupindo: The pie menu suck now. I prefer to eat them myself. ;)
* [12:13] Latif Khalifa: there is going to be a lot bad karma coming about the pie menu changes
* [12:13] Morgaine Dinova: What's the mechanism of overload here? So many that it runs out of memory? (doubt it) So many that traversal takes too long, and there's a full list traversal each time? Or what?
* [12:14] Techwolf Lupindo: If its crashing, limited buffer.
* [12:14] Yann Dufaux: with a lag , i notice a broken IM and Profile request :)
* [12:14] Soft Linden: The dialog mechanism isn't that efficient. Lots of dialogs would slow down several mechanisms significantly.
* [12:14] Kona Linden: K, next up folks: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13177
* [12:14] Kona Linden: Allow XUI to specificy tooltips for combo box list entries
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: I think this was being left as-is?
* [12:14] Kona Linden: Patches by the way...=)
* [12:15] Soft Linden: Nothing needs to be done on this one - Robin's going to contirbute it to the public open source branch.
* [12:15] Gellan Glenelg: that's a feature request. why is it appearing on monday triage filter?
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: yas
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: yes*
* [12:15] Gellan Glenelg: oh - ok - patch :)
* [12:15] Soft Linden: Just marking the triage date is fine
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:15] Kona Linden: coo
* [12:15] Kona Linden: Hot by vote then...
* [12:15] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3514
* [12:15] Kona Linden: llLoadURL(llGetOwner(),....) should not delay the script.
* [12:15] Harleen Gretzky: patches filter probably does not distingish
* [12:16] Harleen Gretzky: still thinks this should be a new feature
* [12:16] Moon Metty: yes Harleen
* [12:16] Erinyse Planer: we should probably link this to the other loadurl issue
* [12:17] Gellan Glenelg: I disagree with that... how easy to grief a newbie by convincing them to wear an object then have it spam them?
* [12:17] Kona Linden: true...
* [12:17] Raveka Krimmer: Ahh.. it does seem like it would fit with the first one doesn't it?
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:17] Harleen Gretzky: don;t even really need to wear it
* [12:17] Erinyse Planer: gellan i can see that but...
* [12:18] WolfPup Lowenhar: or even use it to creat an area greifer it there was no delay
* [12:18] Harleen Gretzky: BUt I would prefer throttles to 10 second delays
* [12:18] Raveka Krimmer: Yes, if it wasn't delayed and you sat it down.. what is to stop it from going on and on..
* [12:19] Erinyse Planer: i agree. i think link it, and maybe mark need more info and ask them for a more convincing argument or specific cases it should be excepted?
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: I still think it's a FR
* [12:19] Morgaine Dinova: A delay per invocation is a pretty silly way of doing abuse control though. If you want to throttle griefing, you should progressively increase the delay, starting from zero for the first use.
* [12:19] Gellan Glenelg: yep
* [12:19] Kona Linden: at this state, it is
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: moving to FR
* [12:19] Kona Linden: k, next
* [12:19] Techwolf Lupindo: Hmm...social attact. Newb attacted object. Object rezzes a spammer and that object will have no delay due to it belongs to the owner.
* [12:20] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3009
* [12:20] Kona Linden: Land Description truncated on region restart
* [12:20] Erinyse Planer: yeah this happens allot.
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:20] Kona Linden: Hmmm...Andrew is still assigned to it...
* [12:20] WolfPup Lowenhar: looks like i will nedd to check my land descritpion
* [12:20] Moon Metty: Andrew is kinda busy at the moment :)
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: import and assign to him?
* [12:21] Erinyse Planer: if its assigned why isnt it imported?
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: ya
* [12:21] Uni Ninetails: Lol busy dont cut it
* [12:21] Soft Linden: This should really go to the viewer team, to limit the length to something that matches what really gets saved.
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:21] Kona Linden: cool
* [12:21] Soft Linden: I'd move to VWR and I'll bring that up in Viewer triage.
* [12:22] Kona Linden: Time to take a dive into the Pool folks, starting with: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4234
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:22] Kona Linden: Server 1.27 > llGetInventoryName returns null string
* [12:22] WolfPup Lowenhar: < wonders when the viewer truiages are
* [12:22] Erinyse Planer: you mean the wed traige kona?
* [12:22] Latif Khalifa: that one is imported
* [12:23] Moon Metty: Peri commented on 4234
* [12:23] Kona Linden: eyp
* [12:23] Kona Linden: yep*
* [12:23] Harleen Gretzky: Got imported after teh agenda was made
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Ah, Wolf - I'm talking about an internal one. There's another pass on these that's used for deciding which version things get fixed in, if Rx needs to make a call, etc.
* [12:24] WolfPup Lowenhar: oh ok soft
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Internally this one is already in the right place
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Nothing to do!
* [12:24] Kona Linden: For which, Soft?
* [12:24] Soft Linden: SVC-4234
* [12:24] Kona Linden: k thanks
* [12:24] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10274
* [12:24] Kona Linden: Video Stream from Quicktime Streaming Server looks pixely and on the windows client has a green bar underneath it.
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: last week... I asked for a stream I believe
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Yeah. They didn't reply with the stream, just times when it's up...
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:25] Soft Linden: For expediency, could import, and ask the Linden looking at it to ping the resi directly.
* [12:26] Soft Linden: They say it's a live stream, so maybe it's not always available.
* [12:26] Erinyse Planer: well i think its any stream on that server
* [12:26] Erinyse Planer: but that may be jsut the way im reading it
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: qa?
* [12:26] Raveka Krimmer: IT may also be the way it'sbeing streamed..
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: agreed
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: that's why I was hoping to get a stream to test
* [12:27] WolfPup Lowenhar: id say you still need more detailed information
* [12:27] Kona Linden: Yeah
* [12:27] Erinyse Planer: agress wtih soft
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:27] Techwolf Lupindo: "I would be happy to turn on the stream...."
* [12:27] Raveka Krimmer: It's natural for some streaming software to do that.. from experience
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: I'll aslk again
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Could let them know who to IM a stream to if they don't want to post it publicly
* [12:27] Gellan Glenelg: ask again, and get them to IM you with details, if they don't want it public?
* [12:27] Gellan Glenelg: lol soft
* [12:27] Moon Metty: :)
* [12:27] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3612
* [12:27] Kona Linden: Video card driver error (unsupported) when trying to log in with ATI Radeon Xpress 1150 from Dell Inspiron notebook (VISTA)
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: ya, I just don't want it to turn into and endless back and forth
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: which is where it seems to be :p
* [12:28] Squirrel Wood: It sez right there. unsupported?
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: smiles
* [12:29] Soft Linden: I'd sure expect this is another case of ATI people needing to disable VBO
* [12:29] Raveka Krimmer: Would make sense..
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: want me to suggest?
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Later comments say people are getting in, but performance is unusably slow
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Yus
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:30] Soft Linden: Or specifically ask if performance is better/usable when taking the steps to disable VBO
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:30] Erinyse Planer: um should we link this with the vbo issue soft?
* [12:30] WolfPup Lowenhar: i just noticed an interesting issue with the viewer
* [12:30] Soft Linden: Erinyse - I'd hold off. If they say it's better then yeah.
* [12:30] Erinyse Planer: ok ill add to my watch list then
* [12:30] Soft Linden: doublethumbsup!
* [12:31] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1002
* [12:31] Kona Linden: pg events take priority over mature events; system is being gamed
* [12:32] Erinyse Planer: um yeah i knoticed this to. theres not realy a good way to ar this... which would help... but yeah wouldnt gaming this be both an abuse of the website and agaisnt the new ao stuff?
* [12:32] Soft Linden: I guess this could go to the AO team for attention, with the question of whether AO addresses events too
* [12:32] Morgaine Dinova: Was that a policy decision to bias sorting in favour of PG, or just an accident?
* [12:32] Soft Linden: If AO has this covered, then miscategorized events would be AR-able.
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Well, I think the problem right now is you can find PG, or you can find PG+Mature. So PG is always going to hit more.
* [12:33] Gellan Glenelg: this issue is from before AO stuff?
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Yeah.
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:33] Erinyse Planer: even if they dont this is a problem. and we need an AR option for events and webiste issues ?
* [12:33] Morgaine Dinova: AC please, grrr, not AO
* [12:33] Techwolf Lupindo: Animaition Overides?
* [12:33] Moon Metty: yes, AC
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Yeah, looks like in the AO viewer, you have to explicitly check that you want PG. So listing in PG wouldn't be so productive anymore.
* [12:33] WolfPup Lowenhar: -*@ ROFL @*- morgainne
* [12:33] Qie Niangao: Still an issue of sort order; if all maturity levels are prefered, order of results shouldn't be by maturity level.
* [12:34] Yann Dufaux: loll AO is very confuse if i talk about this ;)))
* [12:34] Gellan Glenelg: AC = people who enjoy being electrocuted?
* [12:34] Gellan Glenelg: ;P
* [12:34] Moon Metty: DC is more effective Gellan
* [12:34] Techwolf Lupindo: Is there a rating on Animation Overides?
* [12:34] Erinyse Planer: easy fix i think... reverse the order of priority?
* [12:34] Soft Linden: Anyway - I'd import and pass to the AO people to make a call.
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:34] Morgaine Dinova: Unless there is a policy decision to bias sorts in favour of PG, then this is just a sorting or presentation bug.
* [12:34] Kona Linden: kk
* [12:34] Erinyse Planer: lsit adult first (they would automatically get screened if filtered) then mature then pg?
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Morgaine - previously you could only search for PG or PG+Mature. That's why a PG listing was preferable.
* [12:35] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2041
* [12:35] Soft Linden: PG came up in every search, where mature only came up in mature searches.
* [12:35] Kona Linden: Simulator pending upload/download handling needs a rewrite
* [12:36] Erinyse Planer: soft should we do a feature request to ask that AO issues on the website have an ar category?
* [12:36] Soft Linden: Erinyse - sure, that could be helpful
* [12:36] Soft Linden: The last comment on SVC-2041 is from a year ago
* [12:36] Erinyse Planer: points to rave. "your turn. ao hates me for the fr's ive put in"
* [12:37] Kona Linden: k
* [12:37] Kona Linden: NMI then...?
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:37] Soft Linden: This has improved over the last year and will be further improved by migrating texture downloads to S3. Not sure there's anything to do with this specific JIRA.
* [12:38] Soft Linden: I don't even know if I'd NMI. We know it's still sometimes a problem, and there are lots of JIRAs for dealing with specific problems.
* [12:38] Soft Linden: Maybe just under advisement.
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:38] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4386
* [12:38] Erinyse Planer: maybe link with some too if one of us gets time?
* [12:38] Kona Linden: WindLight does not save preferences
* [12:38] Gellan Glenelg: this mentions settings_windlight.xml - OLD!
* [12:39] Kona Linden: yep
* [12:39] WolfPup Lowenhar: soft are they figureing out why the 1.23viewer is eating object that are behind you?
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: year old
* [12:39] Kona Linden: Ask if they're still having this issue then?
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: nmi it is
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Yeah. NMI, still happening?
* [12:40] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5630
* [12:40] Kona Linden: libopenal.so.1 troubles on linux
* [12:41] WolfPup Lowenhar: even in windows you can have voice just silently fail
* [12:41] Raveka Krimmer: Hmm... that's true
* [12:41] Erinyse Planer: yes
* [12:42] Erinyse Planer: one of the numberous reasons i dont use voice often
* [12:42] WolfPup Lowenhar: but it takes having been on for many hours and a lot of tp around
* [12:42] Soft Linden: So, on this people are saying they're still copying some libs in from a 1.19 viewer. That's way bad.
* [12:42] Soft Linden: I'm going to update the description on this one.
* [12:42] Kona Linden: kk
* [12:42] Soft Linden: And then after that, you can import for viewer triage
* [12:42] Techwolf Lupindo: I got voice working on my setup by using a second sound card and using alsa dmix to redirect the capture to the second card. The voxix client will not work on second cards and can't use the same card as the SecondLife client soundcard.
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: thanks soft
* [12:43] Kona Linden: TY, soft =)
* [12:43] Morgaine Dinova: Not a lot to go on there. OpenAL is presumably working for non-voice, or the description would have said it wasn't.
* [12:43] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1128
* [12:43] Kona Linden: llGiveInventory deletes no-copy objects if user declines them
* [12:43] Techwolf Lupindo: SL openal soft sound work good. Even got surrround on it.
* [12:44] Yann Dufaux: nice i need to try !! :)
* [12:44] Erinyse Planer: adds her vote and hopes it gets looked at
* [12:44] Morgaine Dinova: Yep, never had a hiccup with OpenAL itself. The streams are a different matter.
* [12:44] Techwolf Lupindo: Is there a meta issure for linux vovix stuff?
* [12:44] Soft Linden: Can this one go in for QA?
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:44] Kona Linden: yeah
* [12:44] Moon Metty: good
* [12:45] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1577
* [12:45] Kona Linden: llHTTPRequest returns 499 on some ip addresses (not all)
* [12:46] Soft Linden: Yeah, would import this guy
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:46] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3727
* [12:47] Kona Linden: Spinning Avatar / Camera
* [12:47] Techwolf Lupindo: Need to remove bug reporting from the client and replace with link to support ticket system.
* [12:47] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:48] Dirk Talamasca: Agreed
* [12:48] Kona Linden: nice
* [12:48] Soft Linden: From the writeup, sure sounds like they're losing network connectivity for a time
* [12:48] Squirrel Wood: still ask if 1.23 still does have that issue ?
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:48] Soft Linden: They talk about continuing to drift off into the distance as well
* [12:49] Squirrel Wood: and they talk about usb disconnect
* [12:49] Erinyse Planer: um i can answer that squireel right now
* [12:49] Squirrel Wood: mayhaps they use a wireless keyboard and the batteries need to be changed ?
* [12:49] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:49] Erinyse Planer: it still happens
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Ah whee the USB stuff
* [12:49] Gellan Glenelg: "I tried all viewers i have installed in my computer, regular one, RC, Beta, Kirstens, Imprudence, any i can think of, and all gave me the same errors.." .. suggsts it's not the viewer
* [12:49] Techwolf Lupindo: NMI with the tips just given out here.
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: on windows, use USBDeview to uninstall the USB drivers. then reinstall.
* [12:50] Moon Metty: i know the spinning camera in edit mode, but i haven't seen it for a while
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: (btw, usbdeview is a nice little tool that displays all installed and used/unused usb drivers)
* [12:50] Kona Linden: Me neither, Moon
* [12:50] Erinyse Planer: i have expereinced this on a usb keybaord, with proper drivers, and both wire and wireless mice.
* [12:50] Erinyse Planer: it seems more like a connection issue to ll to me
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: agreed
* [12:50] Techwolf Lupindo: I have not encounter this issues at all...wiered.
* [12:51] Erinyse Planer: I had it yesterday
* [12:51] Squirrel Wood: still force uninstall the keyboard drivers and reinstall the latest ones from the manufacturers website
* [12:51] Soft Linden: Very tough.
* [12:51] Soft Linden: I mean, we'd be hearing about something causing USB disconnects non-stop if this were a common problem
* [12:51] Soft Linden: But only 5 votes in a year and no clear repro - this would be very tough to do anything about
* [12:51] Erinyse Planer: its a bad bug, but i dont see a way to reliably repo it to bring it in
* [12:52] Squirrel Wood: If its a logitech keyboard, then expect it. SetPoint is really lousy coded.
* [12:52] Erinyse Planer: ooh good point
* [12:52] Uni Ninetails: tell me about it
* [12:52] Erinyse Planer: mine is logitech. maybe ask if others are?
* [12:52] Kona Linden: Soft, not using their space navigator seemed to have solved it...
* [12:52] Kona Linden: for one at least...lol
* [12:53] Squirrel Wood: my setpoint would keep complaining about empty batteries for months after I replaced them with fresh ones :p
* [12:53] Soft Linden: Yeah, that's not the original reporter
* [12:53] Uni Ninetails: Squirrel: I had that with a dinovo media pad...
* [12:53] Soft Linden: Part of me thinks this is the home for all symptoms of overloaded USB hubs :)
* [12:54] Squirrel Wood: If logitech its a driver issue. not related to SL
* [12:54] Soft Linden: I think I'd ask them to individually contact support for troubleshooting.
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: agreed
* [12:54] Kona Linden: k, next
* [12:54] Soft Linden: I see one person losing USB connectivity, one with what looks like a hub power problem, one that could just be losing connectivity...
* [12:54] Erinyse Planer: soft i only have 3 of my six ports used
* [12:54] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4053
* [12:54] Kona Linden: Viewer Graphical Distortions
* [12:54] Techwolf Lupindo: Someone ask me why they put so many USB ports on motherboards when all you need is a couple plus a hub. This jira is one reason why.
* [12:55] Gellan Glenelg: 1.18 / 1.20 - NMI Still a problem?
* [12:55] Morgaine Dinova: Although it sounds like a local issue, it might help to have a green-amber-red icon light up to show the state of connections.
* [12:55] Soft Linden: Yeah, this is ancient.
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: july 2008
* [12:55] Kona Linden: k
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: NMI
* [12:55] Moon Metty: it's not ATI :)
* [12:55] Moon Metty: amazing
* [12:55] Erinyse Planer: haha
* [12:55] Erinyse Planer: moon
* [12:55] Kona Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9017
* [12:55] Kona Linden: CreateRmSysmemSurface: __glNvRmAllocMemory64 failed 42 Opens while doing ANYTHING.
* [12:56] Gellan Glenelg: old, but with recent comments. can we ask which client they're on now?
* [12:56] Morgaine Dinova: It's bound to be the "42" ... :P
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: yup, I can ask
* [12:57] Soft Linden: I'd NMI this, ask anyone still having the problem to include system info
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:57] Kona Linden: Also note, I don't think we support nForce cards
* [12:58] Raveka Krimmer: THat's NVidia
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: ok - I
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: I'll check system req. too
* [12:58] Kona Linden: Raveka, we don't support all Nvidia cards...just GeForces thus far
* [12:59] Kona Linden: K folks, we're up!
* [12:59] Soft Linden: Still - that nforce 430 is going to be what - 4 years old? 5?
* [12:59] Moon Metty: alrighty
* [12:59] Alexa Linden: Thanks averyone for attending!