Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-23

07:02 	Office Orb  	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
  	Oz Linden  	Hi all
  	Twisted Laws  	hello
07:03 	Wolfpup  	hopes the OS build issues get fixed fast
07:04 	Oz Linden  	That's moving slowliy
  	Jonathan  	Is that the crash on startup issue or something else?
  	Wolfpup  	hey Tank
07:05 	  	yes Jonathan
  	Jonathan  	It should be a quick fix, check for NULL and do the right thing
  	Oz Linden  	We're in the process of upgrading much of our internal farm, which is taking up the time of the people needed
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	hi
  	Oz Linden  	on the other hand, we'll make the same kind of changes to the external one, so it'll be better for the wait
07:06 	Wolfpup  	Oz i was talking about the sh-1616 and sh-1624
  	Oz Linden  	The problem with that startup crash is a threading issue
  	  	some thread is calling the texture list before it's been initialized
  	Jonathan  	There are other places that call that routine that check for NULL
07:07 	Oz Linden  	and it can't be initialized until OpenGL has been, etc.
  	  	Bao is working on it, and if he doesn't sort it out today I'll try to get him some help
  	Twisted Laws  	yeah, can't debug it tho because of the llconvexdecompositionstub tho
07:08 	Oz Linden  	I thought that Nyx put in a fix for the problem with the stub on Friday?
  	Wolfpup  	that is another issue that need to get worked out
  	Twisted Laws  	not checked in anywhere i sa
  	Oz Linden  	hmmm.....
  	Jonathan  	jira # ?
  	Wolfpup  	he said he was working on that fast in irc Friday
07:09 	Twisted Laws  	been 4 weeks since a check in on https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecompositionstub/
  	Oz Linden  	ah... right.... well, I'll follow up with him today too
07:10 	Jonathan  	oz, can individual jiras in SH (etc) be made public-readable? We cannot follow these issues once they are pulled in there
  	Wolfpup  	sh-16 abd sh-1624 are visable
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it's possible
07:11 	Wolfpup  	sh-1616 ment
  	Twisted Laws  	just have to log on, right?
07:12 	Oz Linden  	There are a couple of ways to move issues between projects, and if someone uses the wrong one moving from VWR to SH, then it gets hidden
  	Jonathan  	ok, those 2 are now once you log in; last week I could not get at 1624
  	Oz Linden  	it's usually unintentional, and if you have one you'd like to see just check with me and I can usually get it changed fairly quickly
07:13 	Jonathan  	The other issue is they are not visible in jira search, so a duplicate gets created
  	Oz Linden  	yup
07:14 	  	although I have not noticed that having something already filed is all that effective at preventing duplicates :-)
  	Wolfpup  	Oz on a side note i can now build the 3p-fmod repository with out any modifications
  	Jonathan  	ha yes, you should see what got filed over the weekend when the asset server was having troubles
  	  	wolfpup is bringing up open-71 I think
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-71
OPEN-71 As an Open Source (OS) developer using windows I want 3p-FMOD library to build and package locally using autobuild.
07:15 	Oz Linden  	I spent the weekend building gardens and planting in them, so I missed all the drama.... have not caught up yet
  	  	yes... I wanted to talk about that
07:16 	Jonathan  	I was about to write some wiki instructions when I saw that being worked on, so held off until it is pulled in
  	Oz Linden  	The issue does not describe what the problem is with doing the build locally
  	Jonathan  	there are no instructions for fmod yet in the build wiki
  	Oz Linden  	what is/was it?
  	  	I'll get some instructions up this week for sure
  	  	Taken too long :-(
07:17 	Wolfpup  	Oz Os devs have to hve curl and uzip in Cygwin for fmod to build right
07:18 	  	it would help Os devs if we knew the exact configuration of cygwin on the LL build farms
  	Oz Linden  	doesn't the fmod build use those packages from autobuild?
  	Twisted Laws  	yes :)
  	Oz Linden  	(it should)
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	the fmod package is internal to LL
  	Wolfpup  	some and from cygwin as well
  	Twisted Laws  	its getting cygwin right is an issue for some of us
  	Jonathan  	unless we ask for unzip to be installed when setting up cygwin we have no unzip command loaded normally
07:19 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	like kdu is
  	Jonathan  	unzip is not part of a default cygwin install
  	Wolfpup  	and that gose for curl as well
  	  	< did a full rebuild of his fmod repository this morning
  	Oz Linden  	We can't make an fmod prebuild available, tankmaster... their license doesn't allow it
07:20 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	i think i misread your question, sorry
07:21 	Oz Linden  	If there are tools prerequisites that we need, then there are two things we should do:
  	  	1) document them better on the wiki
  	  	2) Put checks into the configure step to verify them
  	  	or at least into the build
  	Jonathan  	1) was done over the weekend for windows builds
07:22 	Oz Linden  	that's good
  	  	2 is for bonus points :-)
  	Jonathan  	unzip is not needed for a stock viewer compile
07:23 	Wolfpup  	but it is needed for the 3p- libs
  	Oz Linden  	well, if you want to build fmod in, it sounds like it is needed
  	Jonathan  	that is why it has only recently croppd up
  	Oz Linden  	ok
07:24 	  	it's clearly better if people have audio
  	Wolfpup  	yes it is
07:25 	  	i wonder what is comeing down the pipeline from the xui team
07:26 	Oz Linden  	they're pretty busy...
  	Jonathan  	speaking of build farms, how is your little project coming along oz?
  	Oz Linden  	one thing I'll be doing this week is reviewing a few TPV features to see if we can pull them in
  	  	slowly :(
07:28 	Wolfpup  	like what kind of features OZ
07:29 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	you may find the jira parcer in firestorm handy, but im not sure if most of the userbase would
  	  	its makes things like STORM-123 into clickable URL links
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-123
STORM-123 Resizing ability of nearby chatbar in bottomtray appears only after click.
  	Oz Linden  	Some things we'll look at are UI tweaks, others things like the media filter
07:30 	Wolfpup  	< would like to see a rework of the home tab in the side bar
  	Twisted Laws  	the media filter would make some people happy
  	Jonathan  	oz, you remember my "long list"? I still have a pile of ui tweaks that could be looked at
  	Oz Linden  	I'm not convinced that things like that really belong in the viewer, though, tank
  	Wolfpup  	that would make a lot of people happy Tank
07:31 	Oz Linden  	Well, you are welcome to keep working down the list, JY
  	Jonathan  	Tank, storm-1068 is stalled getting into v-d but your team might want to pick it up; the work is all done
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1068
STORM-1068 Add optional range ring(s) to the mini-map -- one centered on you with a radius of 20m to show local chat range
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	bolded moderator chat has really helped in quickly identifying who is speeking that is a moderator for a group, making it more likely people pay attention to what they say better
  	Oz Linden  	yes, what happened with that, Jonathan...
  	Wolfpup  	Oz some media if it is done in a vesious manor can invade peoples privacy
  	Oz Linden  	I thought we were good with it
  	Jonathan  	Wolf has it on hold
07:32 	Oz Linden  	I'll ask him what's up with that, then
  	Jonathan  	super :)
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	thx for the link, johnathan
  	Jonathan  	Maybe it fell off his, err, radar
  	Oz Linden  	that's what the filter is for, Wolfpup.... it let's you decide what to play and what not to
07:33 	  	I've got a working version based on the one in Firestorm, but it broke the unit tests and I have not fixed them yet
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	group chat faid to send messages not being a blocker ok is a simple yet appreciated fix we did (changed the message from alertmodle to notify)
  	Wolfpup  	the only time i play media is if im at my current home sim and it is what i have set to play ie.... audio stream or mabey a test moap
07:34 	Oz Linden  	that would be a good one, tankmaster
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	i think we extended our media filter to also filter MOaP, not sure though
  	Wolfpup  	but i have heard of places that you can not go unless you have media turnd on other wise you get booted
07:35 	Oz Linden  	You don't even let my lapping water sounds here play, Wolfpup? I'm hurt :-)
  	Wolfpup  	ie places with certian security systems in place
07:36 	  	those are inworld sounds and those do play
07:37 	  	inworld sounds are different that say the parcel audio stream
  	Twisted Laws  	wolfpup, that sounds like google... if you don't let us misuse your privacy, we won't let you play
07:39 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	oh, i nphoenix we added that chats from lindens are in blue :P
  	Twisted Laws  	dang, i like blue friends ... purple lindens :p
  	Jonathan  	Does that work if they have a DN set?
07:40 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	you can change the color
  	Oz Linden  	I've wondered about that.... what's the point? Is it so hard to pick us out?
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	yes, it uses the isLinden variable
  	  	i think it was because it was sible after adding in the ability to change text color for friends
  	  	simple*
07:41 	Twisted Laws  	on the earlier convos, is it up to us OS poeple to fix llconvexdecompositionstub? or is a Linden going to help?
  	Jonathan  	is there a jira # for that?
07:42 	Oz Linden  	If by fixing the stub, you mean fixing it so that it doesn't crash when used, we're working on it
  	Twisted Laws  	to reproduce the non-public version for functionality
  	Oz Linden  	if you mean implementing the parts it does not do, then that's up to the community
  	Twisted Laws  	ok
07:43 	Jonathan  	Can LL distribute a stand-alone converter (I remember hearing KL talk about using one)
07:44 	Oz Linden  	We're not going to build one, I don't think, but there's no problem with linking one from the wiki
07:46 	Twisted Laws  	if we build a working stub, will the labs host it in the stub repository?
07:47 	Oz Linden  	Well, bitbucket will host anything....
  	Wolfpup  	Oz he is talking about the source code its self
07:48 	Oz Linden  	so was I
  	Twisted Laws  	maybe i think differently and not getting what i mean across... i was meaning if we build a working stub and review it and all... and have the source in the current stub repository with a built lib so others didn't have to do the same
  	Oz Linden  	anyone can create a repo so that it's available
07:49 	  	ah.... possibly, if there is a consensus that there is one solution everyone likes
  	  	and there are no adverse licensing problems (like fmod)
  	Twisted Laws  	right
07:51 	  	i'm an old guy, been developing software for 30+ years ... my mind doesn't do conversations well sometimes but usually it can design/code/test very well
07:52 	  	sorry if i don't come across right sometimes
07:53 	Oz Linden  	I think that the trickiest part of doing open development is finding ways to discuss and build consensus around what the goals are
  	  	Too often, people try to skip that step and just hack away....
07:54 	Twisted Laws  	hardest part for me as i always did my job by myself ... sold out and retired because of the group work issues... i've been trying but this is hard for me
  	Oz Linden  	which is fine on small projects, but once you've got a lot of people involved it doesn't work well
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	agreed
  	Oz Linden  	the fact that something is open is not a substitute for design or project management
07:55 	Wolfpup  	there are two systems out there that are opensourced that could be used to ad full functionality to the stub
  	Twisted Laws  	yes, but you guys sometimes don't share your directions ...
  	Oz Linden  	well, I'm trying to do better at that, but I agree there's some way to go there
07:56 	Twisted Laws  	which 2, wolfpup?
07:59 	  	btw, i do think you've improved things Oz
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	agreed
  	  	we have really appricated the help youve done in getting us in contact with various lindens
08:00 	Office Orb  	Your timer has expired!
  	Oz Linden  	thanks.... it's an adventure :-)
08:01 	  	One of the things I'm going to do today is to get my statistics on open source contributions up to date.... I have not run the analyzer is several weeks
  	Jonathan  	Are you still working on getting the OS names updated in Help>about?
08:02 	Wolfpup  	John Radclif's and the bullet physics system
  	Oz Linden  	Yes, in fact I'm going to try to do that this week too
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	just rememebr to do all the languages :P
  	Oz Linden  	Since I now have done my first XUI changes, I'm all hot to do more :-)
  	Wolfpup  	but the bullet system is actualy useing John's code
  	Oz Linden  	Actually, I'm going to change that dialog so that you don't need to edit the different languages
08:03 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	ive been meening to tdo that
  	Oz Linden  	I'll load the names at run time from a separate file
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	adealy all lists of names should be in a centeril location
08:04 	Jonathan  	There are a lot of names in there; I wonder what became of many of them, and if they could be recruited back.
  	Oz Linden  	well, open devs come and go on all projects
08:05 	  	I've got to get back to other things folks... thanks for coming by, and I'll post something in irc & the list when we get the startup issues addressed
  	Wolfpup  	i think one kind of got frustrated after having a bunch of issues setting approved on the Rb but not implamented
  	Jonathan  	I was trying to recruit some people who were chatting in the beta group over the weekend. Sometimes it takes someone to say "it is not as hard as you think"
08:06 	Office Orb  	End transcription
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	tc oz
  	Wolfpup  	tc Oz and see you @ the scrum metting
  	Twisted Laws  	bye, ty
  	Jonathan  	Thank you Oz
  	Oz Linden  	Let me know if I can be of any help with encouraging people