Pyogp/Chat Logs/Daily Meeting/13 Aug 2008

* [9:35] Enus Linden: infinity, start us up
* [9:35] Lillie Yifu: and one really does catch more flies with honey pots.
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: yeah.. i spent all yesterday typing up stuff about trust
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: anyway
* [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Widget Zero's office hours, AWG meetings, Which LInden's Office Hours...
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: let's get going... we'll revisit trust at Zero's office hours
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: jinx
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: I'll go first
* [9:35] Infinity Linden: since i have nothing to report
* [9:35] Enus Linden: yay!
* [9:35] Lillie Yifu: kk I have soemthing written up that I would like you to take a look at.
* [9:35] Enus Linden: so what you gonna be doing next?
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: but tomorrow Enus and I are gonna pair on some stuff
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: today is more documentation
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: i'm writing the LLIDL spec
* [9:36] Saijanai Kuhn: oh neat
* [9:36] Enus Linden: IDL?
* [9:36] kerunix Flan: oh, hello tao, long time no see. so much time that you probably don't ever remember who am i :)
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: bwa ha ha ha ha
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: more of an abstract data language
* [9:36] Lillie Yifu: I'll be decent in a moment, trying to tp back to my bedroom to change didn't work
* [9:36] Infinity Linden: sort of like ASN.1 pared down to thebone
* [9:37] Saijanai Kuhn: take that, Google!
* [9:37] Lillie Yifu: and I was somepalce where changing would have taken forever
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: with no crappy encodings like BER or DER
* [9:37] Lillie Yifu: my apologies if I am underdressed
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: hmm...
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: is Lock coming back
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: ?
* [9:37] Enus Linden: he is
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: okay
* [9:37] Enus Linden: his client was effed
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: i was wanting to wait for him
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: okay
* [9:37] Enus Linden: speak of the devil...
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: now we can continue
* [9:37] Infinity Linden: Enus?
* [9:37] Locklainn Linden: sry
* [9:38] Lillie Yifu: I hope that is better
* [9:38] Enus Linden: k, so i have done nothing practical
* [9:38] Lillie Yifu: though with the skirt bug in full force...
* [9:38] Tao Takashi: Hi kerunix :)
* [9:38] kerunix Flan: :)
* [9:38] Enus Linden: and wont be doing so, save working with inf tomorrow to somehow integrate her tests
* [9:38] Tao Takashi: your name rings a bell at least ;-)
* [9:38] Enus Linden: i am encouraged by the message system discussions
* [9:38] kerunix Flan: yay \o/
* [9:38] Enus Linden: and general direction we're headed
* [9:39] Enus Linden: i'll be mailing the list today with some thoughts about what's next
* [9:39] Infinity Linden: though i warn you... zero and i are planning WheatOGP <--- joke
* [9:39] Tao Takashi: once the msgsystem is sorted out I'd like to make some release actually ;-)
* [9:39] Enus Linden: things like what we're talking about in irc: event queue against the sims
* [9:39] Infinity Linden: yeah... hat would be cool
* [9:39] Enus Linden: logging
* [9:39] Infinity Linden: though
* [9:39] Infinity Linden: there are some changes coming down to auth
* [9:40] Enus Linden: and the like
* [9:40] Enus Linden: no worries
* [9:40] Enus Linden: as long as they are published in docs we will of course accomodate
* [9:40] Enus Linden: what sorts of changes tho?
* [9:40] Infinity Linden: so we should coordinate our release on aditi and support in OpenSim and PyOGP
* [9:40] Enus Linden: have they been talked about in zeros meetings or anything?
* [9:40] Infinity Linden: um... lets get through the PyOGP circle and I'll come back to it
* [9:41] Enus Linden: k
* [9:41] Enus Linden: Tao?
* [9:41] kerunix Flan: POKE! tao
* [9:41] Tao Takashi: well, busy work days and talking with Locklainn about the Message System
* [9:41] Tao Takashi: and working on that agent domain (the website actually)
* [9:42] Tao Takashi: which might should be announced soon
* [9:42] Tao Takashi: -might :)
* [9:42] Tao Takashi: that's it
* [9:42] Infinity Linden: cool
* [9:42] Tao Takashi: ah, for that AD thing it might be actually nice to have some sort of release
* [9:42] Enus Linden: tao, i'd like to talk about that later in irc, to see what it is that you are doing with that. i'm curious
* [9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: I'm getting closer to using tkinter
* [9:42] Infinity Linden: tao +1
* [9:42] Infinity Linden: but now
* [9:42] Infinity Linden: Lock?
* [9:42] Tao Takashi: but I agree that it should not be released when in the next 2 days the spec and implementation is changed
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: yesterday I spent working on trying to get an avatar to move forward
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: didnt work
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: :(
* [9:43] Infinity Linden: ugh
* [9:43] Tao Takashi: backwards maybe?
* [9:43] Tao Takashi: ;-)
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: haha
* [9:43] Infinity Linden: lol
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: and started writing up some docs about message system redesign
* [9:43] Infinity Linden: cool
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: there are currently 2 docs going around,
* [9:43] Locklainn Linden: or will be
* [9:44] Locklainn Linden: everyone be sure to comment, we have to get this worked out :)
* [9:44] Infinity Linden: do you have an url?
* [9:44] Infinity Linden: is it in the wiki?
* [9:44] Locklainn Linden: no
* [9:44] Tao Takashi: Enus mailed it to the list
* [9:44] Locklainn Linden: going around via email
* [9:44] Locklainn Linden: for discussion
* [9:44] Infinity Linden: oh blergh. i might have been bumped from the list again
* [9:45] kerunix Flan: this is my first ogp meeting and i never worked on it yet, so i don't understand anything about what you're talking about. but i take note :)
* [9:45] Saijanai Kuhn: 
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: or it could have flown past me at 60 mph
* [9:45] Tao Takashi: 
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: +1 Tao.. forgot about the web archive
* [9:45] Enus Linden: k, so statuses are done...
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: yup
* [9:45] Enus Linden: so about auth changes Infinity
* [9:45] Saijanai Kuhn: cept mine?
* [9:45] Tao Takashi: just use an nntp reader like I do :)
* [9:45] Locklainn Linden: statii? :)
* [9:45] Enus Linden: Saijanai
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: maybe we could talk about other topics
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: first
* [9:45] Infinity Linden: an intro to this group for newcomers
* [9:46] Enus Linden: hows the gui
* [9:46] Infinity Linden: this is the PyOGP implementers group
* [9:46] kerunix Flan: but i fond something very interesting, since it's written in python, could it work on google app engine ? :)
* [9:46] Infinity Linden: we're basically the two people who are doing the heavy lifting (Tao, Lock)
* [9:46] Tao Takashi: kerunix. some parts might
* [9:46] Saijanai Kuhn: getting ready to use tkinter for the test unit GUI. ALso double checked with WingIDE and yep, anyone (except Lindens?) who is contributing to pyogp can get a free copy
* [9:46] Infinity Linden: and Enus an I are basking in their glow
* [9:46] Tao Takashi: but not the event queue stuff as it's long running requests
* [9:46] Infinity Linden: and Sai is offering documentation and community management support
* [9:46] Enus Linden: and GUIs!
* [9:47] Infinity Linden: and... GUIs!
* [9:47] Saijanai Kuhn: teh Spam Guy
* [9:47] Tao Takashi: yep, looking forward to some GUI :)
* [9:47] Saijanai Kuhn: and free IDE's
* [9:47] Infinity Linden: i know absolutely nothing about GUIs in Python so
* [9:47] Enus Linden: hehe
* [9:47] Infinity Linden: Tao...
* [9:47] Tao Takashi: me neither although I always wanted to have a look at wxwindows
* [9:47] Tao Takashi: or even cocoa
* [9:47] Saijanai Kuhn: amazingly (and scarily) its just like the GUI in the viewer. I'mpretty sure he just ported the main tk to the SL class library
* [9:48] Infinity Linden: Are there "standard" Cocoa bindings for python? man... i step away from the platform for a decade or two and they change it sooo much
* [9:48] Enus Linden: for newbs, there is a set of docs on the wiki that could help fill in the blanks
* [9:48] Enus Linden: 
* [9:48] Enus Linden: no about auth changes....
* [9:48] Enus Linden: bow*
* [9:48] Enus Linden: now*
* [9:48] Saijanai Kuhn: there might be, though xCode 3.2 will change everything, I think
* [9:48] Tao Takashi: Infinity: I think so but as said I wanted to look at it but haven't
* [9:48] Enus Linden: dmmt
* [9:48] Tao Takashi: I usually ask some mac expert friend ;-)
* [9:49] Locklainn Linden: enus, you'll get better at typing :)
* [9:49] Enus Linden: no i wont
* [9:49] infinibear: infinibear: contains a very simple interactive fiction parser.
* To play it, give the command "infinibear," followed by a command.
* Use the command "commands" to get a list of the valid commands.
* So the command "infinibear, commands" will get the list of commands.
* [9:49] Infinity Linden: yeah... i've had it as a to-do task for the last decade: "figuer out how apple messed up NeXTStep"
* [9:49] Saijanai Kuhn: so anyway, anyone who starts contributing to pyogp is elligible to get a free professional version of WingIDE for python
* [9:49] Tao Takashi: 
* [9:49] Infinity Linden: cool!
* [9:49] Infinity Linden: is that documented on the wiki?
* [9:49] Saijanai Kuhn: heh. Apple IS Next. Jobs gave all the NeXTers seniority over all apple employees
* [9:50] Infinity Linden: NeXTStep != MacOS X
* [9:50] Infinity Linden: it's very, very close
* [9:50] Infinity Linden: but there are major architectural differences
* [9:50] Infinity Linden: most of them good
* [9:50] Saijanai Kuhn: which might change back with Snow Leopard.
* [9:50] Enus Linden: we're rambling
* [9:50] Infinity Linden: yup
* [9:50] kerunix Flan: since we're off topic, there is a group that implemented a n-body physic simulation engine, for astrophysic demonstration purpose :)
* [9:51] Enus Linden: auth changes: vetted in public?
* [9:51] Tao Takashi: so, what auth changes? :)
* [9:51] Locklainn Linden: haha
* [9:51] kerunix Flan: in opensim :)
* [9:51] Infinity Linden: want me to talk about auth?
* [9:51] Saijanai Kuhn: MD5 paswords or something new?
* [9:51] Infinity Linden: Not too much is changing to the spec
* [9:51] Tao Takashi: I might be interested in that for my AD as well ;-)
* [9:51] Infinity Linden: but
* [9:51] Infinity Linden: some might have noticed
* [9:51] Infinity Linden: the AD we released as part of the beta did not actually follow the spec too closely
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: so the major changes in the spec are:
* [9:52] Tao Takashi: remembers some redirect
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: yup
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: the redirect is going away
* [9:52] Tao Takashi: which I also had to put in now ;-)
* [9:52] Tao Takashi: cool
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: if you succeed or fail, you still get a 200 status code
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: and if you fail, you get an error condition and description
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: also
* [9:52] Tao Takashi: cool
* [9:52] Tao Takashi: repeats himself
* [9:52] Infinity Linden: we're officially adding challenge-response to the spec
* [9:53] Infinity Linden: and PKCS#5 based shared secret auth
* [9:53] Infinity Linden: (since i was the PKCS editor way back when)
* [9:53] Infinity Linden: and
* [9:53] Infinity Linden: there's the ability for the client to tell the AD that it's using a different hash algorithm
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: say... one that isn't completely broken
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: like maybe SHA256
* [9:54] Tao Takashi: wants openid :)
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: blergh
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: good luck
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: enh.. openid is no less secure than an MD5 hashed shared secert
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: secret
* [9:54] Infinity Linden: so it's probably going ot be supported for client to AD
* [9:55] kerunix Flan: what's AD ?
* [9:55] Saijanai Kuhn: AGent DOmain
* [9:55] kerunix Flan: k
* [9:55] Tao Takashi: well, it's what the world starts to use so I am quite confident that SL will also at some point have it
* [9:55] Infinity Linden: thought we may add more bits to teh protocol if we wind up adding client -> rd auth or ad -> ttp auth
* [9:55] Infinity Linden: ttp == "trusted third party"
* [9:55] kerunix Flan: and rde = region domain :)
* [9:55] kerunix Flan: -e
* [9:55] Tao Takashi: yep :)
* [9:55] Saijanai Kuhn: its what you log into with the OGP client
* [9:56] Infinity Linden: well... openid has a number of serious flaws
* [9:56] Tao Takashi: kerunix: 
* [9:56] Infinity Linden: it's great for websites
* [9:56] Infinity Linden: but not for distributed computing environments
* [9:56] Tao Takashi: people are working on these though
* [9:56] Infinity Linden: yeah. i was working on it
* [9:56] Infinity Linden: before i came to LL
* [9:57] Enus Linden: we can debate flaws and such offline gang, please? statuses and important info for teh huddle bitte
* [9:57] Infinity Linden: sure
* [9:57] Enus Linden: unless, we're done with huddle?
* [9:57] Infinity Linden: oh
* [9:57] Infinity Linden: yeah
* [9:57] Infinity Linden: i was thinking we were dnoe
* [9:57] Tao Takashi: sure, Enus
* [9:57] Enus Linden: yay@!
* [9:57] Enus Linden: carry on
* [9:57] Enus Linden: :D
* [9:57] Infinity Linden: yeah
* [9:57] Enus Linden: i'll see ya in irc then
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