Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-04-07

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on April 07th, 2011
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server (main channel)
** "Estate Transfer Limits" project from Magnum got deployed 2011-04-05
*** This project implements adjusted behaviour limiting L$, IM, and object transfer for accounts who are limited to estates.
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.03.29.225234
* BlueSteel RC Channel
** "Inventory Capabilities" project.
*** Gives inventory capabilities to the Agent DS hosts.
**** Sim capabilities support "Accept-Encoding: gzip" to provide compressed inventory responses.
***** FetchInventory2
***** FetchInventoryDescendents2
***** FetchLib2
***** FetchLibDescendents2 
*** Removed some dead/unused code inventory HTTP code.
** Merged with trunk.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.04.05.225783
* LeTigre RC Channel
** Andrew's "maint-server" project
** Bug Fixes
*** Threaded Rez fixes.
*** Config file changes.
*** Security fixes.
** Merged with trunk.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.04.05.225793
* Magnum RC Channel
** New project in this slot.
** Monty's "Fast Assets" project.
*** Higher asset request concurrency for downloads issued by the simulator.
**** Allows concurrent simulator asset downloads from the asset backend. 
**** Greatest improvement where regions have long download queue sizes
**** Lower request latency for non-texture requests particularly
**** Textures (HTTP and UDP) mostly unchanged
*** More fair queuing behavior for non-texture assets
**** Non-texture requests are serviced in order of receipt rather than last-in-first-out.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.04.05.225780
** Initial Results
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group/faster_assets_data_results
* I have deprecated the Release forum.
** I will be using this for weekly release updates.
** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/bd-p/SecondLifeServer
* ADITI got updated this morning
** Things went well.
* Falcon's RayCasting Challenge
** Anything worth looking into?
* Kelly's "mono2-performance"
** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/mono2-performance/bd-p/mono2-performance
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Simon's Gesture Bot
** :-) :-| :-( :-\ :-/ >:-o X-D :-D !_! ^_^ o.O >_< O.o <_< >_>
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for April 07th, 2011:
* [15:00] Oskar: Linden: hi everybody
* [15:00] Draconis: Neurocam: hey oskar
* [15:00] Oskar: Linden: good day to you all
* [15:00] Stickman: Good morning.
* [15:00] Latif: Khalifa: hey oskar
* [15:00] Oskar: Linden: morning? where are you Stickman?
* [15:00] Oskar: Linden: Hawaii?
* [15:00] Stickman: I woke up. It's morning. QED.
* [15:01] Oskar: Linden: I see
* [15:01] Sebastean: Steamweaver: I also just woke up.
* [15:01] Stickman: Makes life a little easier to use a personal reference frame.
* [15:01] Sebastean: Steamweaver: So, good morning.
* [15:01] Oskar: Linden: alright.
* [15:01] Oskar: Linden: well thank you all for coming today
* [15:01] Psi: Merlin: Hi Oskar, Simon, Maestro, Log and fellow beta testers
* [15:01] Stickman: Although being in Hawaii wouldn't be that bad.
* [15:01] Oskar: Linden: it snowed in Seattle yesterday
* [15:01] Sebastean: Steamweaver: Until you had to deal with the cost of living.
* [15:01] Stickman: Sure did.
* [15:01] Oskar: Linden: so yeah Hawaii would be nice
* [15:02] Oskar: Linden: here is the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:02] Stickman: Lightning snowstorm, in fact. Though there was only one bolt.
* [15:02] Oskar: Linden: ur in the Seattle area stickman?
* [15:02] Stickman: I might have even tried to get hired by Linden lab Seattle at one point. :)
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: who here hasn't?
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: :-D
* [15:03] Stickman: :D
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: alright
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: this week has been quite calm
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: more or less
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: we've released code without bringing SL to it's knees
* [15:03] Oskar: Linden: works for me
* [15:04] Kallista: Destiny: *chuckles*
* [15:04] Rex: Cronon: greetings everybody
* [15:04] Oskar: Linden: oh, and remember how I promised to introduce you to Dragon my boss today
* [15:04] Fancy: Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:04] Oskar: Linden: he's out sick this week
* [15:04] Oskar: Linden: so he can't come
* [15:04] Draconis: Neurocam: ah shame
* [15:04] Gooden: Uggla: bummer
* [15:04] Oskar: Linden: yeah
* [15:04] Oskar: Linden: the QA team filed a jira for him to get better
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: put it on his next sprint
* [15:05] Draconis: Neurocam: was a patch attached?
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: good idea Draconis
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: we sent flowers though
* [15:05] Kallista: Destiny: A can of Chicken soup?
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: that counts I guess
* [15:05] Rex: Cronon: did u assign workingonit linden to that jira:)
* [15:05] Sebastean: Steamweaver: Hey Kelly :)
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: assigned it to Doctor Linden
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: not Doc
* [15:05] Oskar: Linden: he just breaks stuff
* [15:05] Gooden: Uggla: :)
* [15:06] Oskar: Linden: so the "Estate Transfer Limits" project went out fine on Tuesday
* [15:06] Gooden: Uggla: and since so few people are effected no one noticed anything wrong?
* [15:07] Oskar: Linden: :-)
* [15:07] Oskar: Linden: well that's good
* [15:07] Gooden: Uggla: indeed
* [15:07] Oskar: Linden: you can't touch one set of code without the chance there might be bugs leaking into others
* [15:07] Draconis: Neurocam: depends on how its coded
* [15:07] Oskar: Linden: especially when dealing with limits on cross estate im/l$/obj transfers
* [15:07] Flip: Idlemind: Are the people affected by it capable of IMing someone about something going wrong
* [15:08] Draconis: Neurocam: haha
* [15:08] Oskar: Linden: :-D
* [15:08] Oskar: Linden: right
* [15:08] Draconis: Neurocam: silence them, so they cant complain
* [15:08] Oskar: Linden: if they can't IM they can't tell me it's a bug
* [15:08] Gooden: Uggla: good thing the issue was obfuscated enough that we weren't scared of that... until you just mentioned it...
* [15:08] Kallista: Destiny: given the age of the Simulator code by now it's got to be very baroque.
* [15:08] Oskar: Linden: problem solved
* [15:08] Rex: Cronon: how does this "Estate Transfer Limits" work?
* [15:08] Oskar: Linden: it's a set of rules applied to accounts who are locked to an estate
* [15:08] Rex: Cronon: oh. thatone
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: yeah
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: it's been around a few weeks
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: it shipped this week
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: BlueSteel has been merged with trunk and re-released
* [15:09] Gooden: Uggla: so unless we work for IBM, or are under 16, we don't really care
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: more or less
* [15:09] Oskar: Linden: BlueSteel has the "Inventory Capabilities" project.
* [15:10] Gooden: Uggla: ok, that one really is scary
* [15:10] Oskar: Linden: but there aren't any vwrs yet capable of using it
* [15:10] Oskar: Linden: that one keeps Gooden up at night
* [15:10] Latif: Khalifa: sure they are ;)
* [15:10] Oskar: Linden: Skyping me with his concerns
* [15:10] Kallista: Destiny: Yeah, I have great fears about scalability
* [15:10] Oskar: Linden: what are your concerns?
* [15:11] Latif: Khalifa: I've been testing that one. it's pretty slow
* [15:11] Gooden: Uggla: running out of beer at hime isn't a "inventory capability" concern
* [15:11] Gooden: Uggla: silly dude
* [15:11] Latif: Khalifa: and not all that reliable
* [15:11] Maestro: Linden: Er, well, the path for inventory fetching changed a bit, which affects anybody using a recent viewer. But no released LL viewers support gzip compression which this project allows for.
* [15:11] Kallista: Destiny: I was at Andrews meeting where that mentioned on connection per inventory folder.
* [15:11] Oskar: Linden: what maestro said
* [15:11] Latif: Khalifa: I tested gzip with my own.
* [15:12] Gooden: Uggla: Oskar, there's been a co-incidental slowdown on inventory loading, is that related?
* [15:12] Latif: Khalifa: I need to get to about 10 parallel http fetches to get the same speed.
* [15:12] Oskar: Linden: I don't know
* [15:12] Fancy: Greeter: Monty Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:12] Latif: Khalifa: I don't know what that does to the system.
* [15:12] Maestro: Linden: that might be related..
* [15:12] Maestro: Linden: Latif: the word from Stone is that 10 parallel fetches shouldn't hurt much
* [15:13] Gooden: Uggla: there's been grumbling from people using V1 variants that inventory is fetching at about half speed
* [15:13] Oskar: Linden: on BlueSteel only?
* [15:13] Latif: Khalifa: Maestro, good to hear. I will leave it in the code then.
* [15:13] Draconis: Neurocam: they should update to v2 then >.>
* [15:13] Gooden: Uggla: no corroboration on server channel
* [15:13] Latif: Khalifa: upgrade/downgrade, dependa on your pov ;)
* [15:14] Kallista: Destiny: hmmm well it's been just fine on Phoenix, magnum and regular
* [15:14] Oskar: Linden: so just v1 based asset fetching slowdowns in general
* [15:14] Gooden: Uggla: draconis, i run a mac, i cannot runn V2 for more than a miniute without crashing, it's not an option
* [15:14] Oskar: Linden: which mac gooden?
* [15:14] Draconis: Neurocam: i know several friends with macs on v2 with no problem
* [15:14] Maestro: Linden: Opensource Obscure mentioned inventory fetching slowdowns on the server-beta list, but he didn't mention which viewer or inventory fetching method he was using.
* [15:14] Gooden: Uggla: something like 20% of SL users share that problem
* [15:15] Gooden: Uggla: i run a intell imac with OS X tiger, which cannot run V2
* [15:15] Lares: Carter: heya everyone
* [15:15] Oskar: Linden: hi Lares
* [15:15] Rex: Cronon: hey
* [15:15] Sebastean: Steamweaver: Yo
* [15:15] Oskar: Linden: it's because of the tiger os right?
* [15:16] Gooden: Uggla: yup
* [15:16] Draconis: Neurocam: you should jira with a log file for what causes the crash
* [15:16] Draconis: Neurocam: im sure the vwr lindens would like to fix it
* [15:16] Latif: Khalifa: gzip cuts down the bandwith when downloading inventory by 60-70% which is a big win.
* [15:16] Gooden: Uggla: the jira entry "disappeared"
* [15:16] Latif: Khalifa: and gzip part seems to work fine
* [15:16] Gooden: Uggla: it was labelled fixed, then disappeared when reopened
* [15:16] Oskar: Linden: which jira?
* [15:17] Gooden: Uggla: just a sec
* [15:17] Stickman: Mac OS X Tiger viewer 2 crash, it sounds like.
* [15:17] Gooden: Uggla: lol yes
* [15:17] Stickman: You got the old number, though?
* [15:17] Gooden: Uggla: i'll dig it out of gmail, just a moment
* [15:17] Oskar: Linden: no worries
* [15:18] Oskar: Linden: LeTigre has the maint-server again this week
* [15:18] Fancy: Greeter: PLDude3 Tester has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:18] Oskar: Linden: It will probably get promoted next week I imagine
* [15:18] Oskar: Linden: barring any unforeseen issues
* [15:19] Fancy: Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:19] Oskar: Linden: we usually wait til monday to make that call though
* [15:19] Oskar: Linden: but I think it's next on the FIFO list
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: the simulator crash rate metrics have been pretty low lately
* [15:20] Maestro: Linden: FIFO, that's a nice segway to Monty and Log's RC
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: it is :-)
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: I have to remember to stop calling it the Fast Asses project
* [15:20] Gooden: Uggla: issue was storm-790
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: T, there's a T in there
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: Fast AsseTs
* [15:20] Oskar: Linden: donkey
* [15:20] Draconis: Neurocam: great typo
* [15:20] Monty: Linden: nice, a mascot
* [15:20] Fancy: Greeter: Coyot Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:21] Oskar: Linden: that does bring us to this weeks new release
* [15:21] Draconis: Neurocam: oh same coyot was not here for it
* [15:21] Oskar: Linden: from Monty and Log
* [15:21] Draconis: Neurocam: shame*
* [15:21] Coyot: Linden: not here for what?
* [15:21] Oskar: Linden: "Higher asset request concurrency for downloads issued by the simulator."
* [15:21] Rex: Cronon: quoting that wone will be so nice:)
* [15:21] Monty: Linden: It got an accelerated deploy and is up on Magnum
* [15:21] Oskar: Linden: this is on Magnum this week
* [15:22] Rex: Cronon: one*
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: Beta wiki points to some data also on the wiki
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: which is a bit confusing
* [15:22] Oskar: Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group/faster_assets_data_results
* [15:22] Oskar: Linden: yes
* [15:22] Oskar: Linden: please xplain those results monty
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: we're sampling download queue lengths
* [15:22] Maestro: Linden: Rex: it looks like the 'fix' for your issue was to update the system requirements here to say 10.5 or later: https://secondlife.com/support/system-requirements/
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: and binning at 75th, 95th and 99th percentiles
* [15:22] Stickman: These are just numbers. I can't read numbers. I need pictures! I'm illiterate!
* [15:22] Oskar: Linden: percentiles of what?
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: average lengths in those bins are shown
* [15:22] Monty: Linden: and the average dropped after deploy
* [15:23] Rex: Cronon: my fix?
* [15:23] Kallista: Destiny: illnumerate
* [15:23] Oskar: Linden: oh those are big drops
* [15:23] Gooden: Uggla: yes maestro
* [15:23] Maestro: Linden: (the disappearance was from somebody moving it to an internal project, to have somebody update the system requirements page)
* [15:23] Oskar: Linden: so are the numbers in ms or objects?
* [15:23] Monty: Linden: srry
* [15:23] Monty: Linden: v2 is running like a dead donkey
* [15:23] Gooden: Uggla: yes monty
* [15:23] Oskar: Linden: there's your answer Gooden. Up your systems
* [15:24] Oskar: Linden: donkey
* [15:24] Kallista: Destiny: there appear to bethe queue length
* [15:24] Latif: Khalifa: nice improvement with asset fetches :)
* [15:24] Maestro: Linden: ah sorry rex. I meant to say gooden
* [15:24] Rex: Cronon: np
* [15:24] Oskar: Linden: we should get those numbers into a nice pretty graph
* [15:24] Kallista: Destiny: that is the number of requests pending, is that correct
* [15:24] Monty: Linden: queue length is being sampled, ordered, binned into percentiles and averaged across the channel
* [15:25] Oskar: Linden: anyone on busy magnum sims notice any difference?
* [15:25] Monty: Linden: So the 95% percentile is the average of the 5% largest samples
* [15:25] Monty: Linden: This is a secondary effect of lower latency for non-texture assets... they don't
* [15:25] Kallista: Destiny: I've noticed that onventry loading seems pretty good, and rezzing seems quick.
* [15:25] Monty: Linden: have time to stack up. But Xan Linden hasn't had time to cook the
* [15:26] Monty: Linden: better metrics yet.
* [15:26] Oskar: Linden: gotcha
* [15:26] Oskar: Linden: maybe for next week
* [15:26] Oskar: Linden: with a larger pool of data
* [15:26] Monty: Linden: Expectation is that regions running at extremes (e.g. combat) can experience this
* [15:26] Monty: Linden: as better asset fetch
* [15:26] Coyot: Linden: that's a heck of an outlier at 0900 in the 99th percentile
* [15:26] Monty: Linden: (sounds, gestures, rezzing, etc.)
* [15:27] Monty: Linden: that's all she wrote
* [15:27] Gooden: Uggla: so it's better?
* [15:27] Monty: Linden: we don't expect any downside and the 'average' region is still well behaved
* [15:27] Oskar: Linden: thanks Monty
* [15:27] Monty: Linden: yeah, definitely on the technical side.
* [15:27] Oskar: LindenOskar Linden wants to know where you hid the bugs
* [15:27] Oskar: Linden: what should people keep an eye out for?
* [15:27] Monty: Linden: Eventually I'll have viewer-side metrics as well so none of you can tell lies to me about how it isn't better.
* [15:27] Coyot: Linden: ol
* [15:27] Monty: Linden: :-O
* [15:28] Oskar: Linden: I like that idea MOnty
* [15:28] Monty: Linden: keep an eye out for: caps problems, maybe. And we're really not completing there
* [15:28] Draconis: Neurocam: people will still find ways to complain, saying usage numbers doesnt mean the sample is comparable, etc
* [15:29] Oskar: Linden: one day people will run out of thigns to complain about
* [15:29] Monty: Linden: yeah, but I have all those numbers
* [15:29] Oskar: Linden: at that point we will be showered with love and cotton candy
* [15:29] Rex: Cronon: unlikely:(
* [15:29] Gooden: Uggla: sure Oskar... that'll happen...
* [15:29] Monty: Linden: I can sample within a like-as-like population
* [15:29] Coyot: LindenCoyot Linden suggests chi-square analysis
* [15:29] Monty: Linden: you are being watched
* [15:29] Monty: Linden: closely
* [15:29] Oskar: Linden: Monty watches you closely
* [15:29] Oskar: Linden: remember that the next time you take an alt out on Zindra
* [15:29] Draconis: Neurocam: monty is big brother
* [15:30] Monty: Linden: or visit me there!
* [15:30] Draconis: Neurocam: haha
* [15:30] Oskar: Linden: Monty's House of Pain
* [15:30] Draconis: Neurocam: bdsm emporium
* [15:30] Coyot: Linden: lovely sky out today
* [15:30] Oskar: Linden: he keeps simulators out there tied to 1.40 server!
* [15:30] Draconis: Neurocam: oh no!
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: next up on the agenda
* [15:31] Monty: Linden: "1.40" Never, again
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: I have deprecated the release forum
* [15:31] Rex: Cronon: u know. there might be a way to make things better. right now in some sandboxes i kind of hard to work while having to deal with 15 minutes autoreturn:(
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: in favor of the Second Life Server forum
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: long live the SL server forum!
* [15:31] Kallista: Destiny: now that is a bad word....
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: 
* [15:31] Rex: Cronon: if u could make it so that the autoreturn happened only if the owner is no longer in sim...
* [15:31] Oskar: Linden: I'll be putting the weekly release forum posts there
* [15:32] Oskar: Linden: simon if you want to get your demo ready I'll talk about ADITI this morning
* [15:32] Simon: Linden: ok
* [15:32] Oskar: Linden: benoc took ADITI down for three hours this morning
* [15:32] Draconis: Neurocam: benoc?
* [15:32] Oskar: Linden: we're attempting to make ADITI more AGNI like
* [15:32] Kallista: Destiny: The Server that shal not be mentioned valde1.40
* [15:33] Fancy: Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:33] Oskar: Linden: benoc linden
* [15:33] Draconis: Neurocam: ah
* [15:33] Coyot: Linden: master of databases
* [15:33] Stickman: Demo? I had a question for Simon about llRegionSayTo.
* [15:33] Homeless: AGNI like?
* [15:33] Oskar: Linden: things should be back to normal
* [15:33] Fancy: Greeter: PLDude3 Tester has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:33] Oskar: Linden: if we're here and interacting his efforts worked
* [15:33] PLDude3: Tester: Hey, I'm ready
* [15:33] Gooden: Uggla: before the meeting i was testing games, everythiong seems ok in aditi so far
* [15:34] Oskar: Linden: so if you all draw your attention to the finely rendered PLDude3 Tester
* [15:34] Oskar: Linden: Simon has a demo for you
* [15:34] Draconis: Neurocam: the dude is a chick!
* [15:34] Stickman: Dude looks like a lady?
* [15:34] Oskar: Linden: we don't judge here Draconis
* [15:34] Simon: Linden: btw, are other people seeing transparency issues? I have suspicions about the newest beta viewer
* [15:34] Gooden: Uggla: just ruth
* [15:34] Gooden: Uggla: with better clothes
* [15:34] Oskar: Linden: looks fine for me, but I am latest-1
* [15:34] Simon: Linden: Anyway, this is a test bot that is a python program driving the SL viewer
* [15:35] Draconis: Neurocam: i keep automatic alpha masks for non deferred on simon, so i would probably see something different
* [15:35] Simon: Linden: We're using the system to be able to put 50+ AVs into a region for load testing
* [15:35] Kallista: Destiny: looks half ruthed.
* [15:35] Coyot: Linden: she doesn't look headless
* [15:35] Simon: Linden: There are lots of other possible uses, of course
* [15:35] Simon: Linden: This is a basic demo ... it will run through all the available gestures
* [15:35] Oskar: Linden: she the chick is a bot
* [15:35] Simon: Linden: Start
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: These are all the active gestures
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Get lost
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Excuse me
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Repulsed
* [15:35] Gooden: Uggla: the bald cap isn't rezzing
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Blow kiss
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Embarrassed
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Chuckle
* [15:35] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Bored
* [15:36] Oskar: Linden: a very emotive bot
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Laugh
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Stick tougue out
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Please
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Hey
* [15:36] Maestro: Linden: Hey!
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Boo
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Looking good
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Hey baby
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Over here
* [15:36] ac14: Hutson: will you be equpping them with "normal" weighted avs as far as attachments and script load goes?
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Wow
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Shrug
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: Gesture Female - Cry
* [15:36] Gooden: Uggla: you bot is a euro clubgoer?
* [15:36] PLDude3: Tester: That's it
* [15:36] Simon: Linden: I've been working on behavior scripts and getting a group going ... Tuesday we have over 20 in a sim dancing, which was quite a sight
* [15:36] Monty: Linden: definitely an emo kid
* [15:36] Coyot: Linden: python makes an avatar cry
* [15:37] Oskar: Linden: I'm hoping to have Simon script a replacement for me
* [15:37] Oskar: Linden: shouldn't take too many lines
* [15:37] Coyot: Linden: very cool, Simon`
* [15:37] Kallista: Destiny: can you they do Mouse clicks?
* [15:37] Simon: Linden: I'm going to hook up an AIML chat bot soon :)
* [15:37] Oskar: Linden: they can click things in world
* [15:37] Stickman: So I think the questions brought up at Andrew's office hours were about source availability. I'm also curious as to the capabilities of this Python driven bot. What can it and can it not do?
* [15:37] Simon: Linden: They can touch objects, sit, do chat, follow a path
* [15:37] Gooden: Uggla: i have a 35 avatar danceball, if you'd like a copy
* [15:38] Stickman: Any inventory manipulation? Rezzing, deleting?
* [15:38] Oskar: Linden: the next revision the bots can make their own 1000 script prim hair
* [15:38] world: Touched.
* [15:38] Simon: Linden: We're still expanding the capabilities ... the team working on group chat, for example, is adding that functionality so they can stress test the system better
* [15:38] world: Touched.
* [15:38] world: Touched.
* [15:38] world: Touched.
* [15:38] Sebastean: Steamweaver: Just don't let it become SkyBot.
* [15:38] Rex: Cronon: r these bots free?
* [15:38] Kallista: Destiny: Hmmmmmm
* [15:38] Stickman: Automated testing on group chat would be nice.
* [15:38] Oskar: Linden: that's really cool Simon
* [15:38] Simon: Linden: I don't know about the source availablity ... asking the open source viewer folks is probably the way to go there
* [15:39] Oskar: Linden: tell you what. make a version of her that sits at a desk and takes notes from this meeting and publishes it to the wiki
* [15:39] Simon: Linden: I definitely would like to see it go out after it becomes more solid.
* [15:39] Draconis: Neurocam: a good deal of headless viewer code is in viewer-development now
* [15:39] Fancy: Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:39] Rex: Cronon: do u realize how good these things can be at griefing?
* [15:39] Simon: Linden: Yes, but this isn't related directly to the headless feature
* [15:40] Oskar: LindenOskar Linden bans Rex
* [15:40] Simon: Linden: This one is running with a normal viewer window so I can see what it's doing
* [15:40] Rex: Cronon: lol
* [15:40] Oskar: Linden: thanks for the demo Simon
* [15:40] Oskar: Linden: that's pretty cool
* [15:40] Simon: Linden: But if you dig into the viewer code, you'll find a reference to lleventhost. That's the missing magic piece
* [15:40] Draconis: Neurocam: you should make them surround people you teleport to the cornfield, that would be scary
* [15:40] Sigma: Avro: so whats new on server changes ?
* [15:40] Simon: Linden: Quit
* [15:41] Oskar: Linden: we've spent the whole meeting talking about server Sigma
* [15:41] Oskar: Linden: did you just get here?
* [15:41] Sigma: Avro: yes sorry,
* [15:41] Sigma: Avro: will look notes
* [15:41] Oskar: Linden: ok :-)
* [15:42] Oskar: Linden: anyone poke at falcons raycasting challenge?
* [15:42] Oskar: Linden: didn't he offer L$ rewards last week?
* [15:42] Homeless: yes
* [15:42] Rex: Cronon: u mean nobody got th 10k?
* [15:42] Stickman: Can you tell us anything new about llRegionSayTo, Simon? Like maybe how far out is it before being released?
* [15:42] Homeless: nothing wierd happened
* [15:42] Sigma: Avro: yes, sims unbracable with the constraints on raycat
* [15:42] Oskar: Linden: that's good
* [15:43] Simon: Linden: Sure, when Oskar's done
* [15:43] Oskar: LindenOskar Linden thinks you guys didn't try hard enough
* [15:43] Oskar: Linden: just a few more minutes
* [15:43] Oskar: Linden: then we can open up the agenda
* [15:43] Homeless: 34k scripts raycasting acted like 34k scripts
* [15:43] Flip: Idlemind: Is that the one about crashing sims with raycasts? Didn't he say hold off on that?
* [15:43] Oskar: Linden: oh right.
* [15:43] Oskar: Linden: I'll ping him again on that
* [15:44] Oskar: Linden: he was supposed to get the mesh sims updated
* [15:44] Oskar: LindenOskar Linden makes a note to remember things he talks about
* [15:44] Oskar: Linden: if I was a headless vwr bot I would have remembered that
* [15:44] Coyot: Linden: lol
* [15:44] Monty: Linden: ... and leaves a voicemail to remember notes he writes.
* [15:44] Stickman: Is that the plan? Replace all the Lindens with headless bots?
* [15:44] Stickman: Simon, you're being evil.
* [15:44] Oskar: Linden: then we can go on vacation for once
* [15:44] Simon: Linden: Just doing my job :)
* [15:45] Oskar: LindenOskar Linden puts all simons resources into cloning lindens digitally
* [15:45] Coyot: Linden: Simon says, you're now a python script!
* [15:45] Stickman: Hah
* [15:45] Oskar: Linden: maybe then my alt would be able to go out and meet some new friends
* [15:45] Sebastean: Steamweaver: Simon says, Play Gestures!
* [15:45] Oskar: Linden: alright last item
* [15:45] Oskar: Linden: is the mono2-performance forum
* [15:45] Oskar: Linden: 
* [15:45] Oskar: Linden: there has been some traffic in there so that's good
* [15:46] Oskar: Linden: how's things looking on that kelly?
* [15:46] Oskar: Linden: mono2-performance in general not the forums per se
* [15:46] Kelly: Linden: Looking pretty good. Working out the kinks on a fix for SCR-18 right now
* [15:47] Oskar: Linden: that's the one Gearsaw found
* [15:47] Latif: Khalifa: good to hear
* [15:47] Oskar: Linden: alright. well we can open the floor to anyones questions now
* [15:47] Oskar: Linden: 13 minutes or so left
* [15:47] Draconis: Neurocam: llSimonRegionSaysTo
* [15:48] Simon: Linden: OK, I've been working on llRegionSayTo( key, channel, message )
* [15:48] Homeless: How many lines of code make up the servers?
* [15:48] Monty: Linden: too many
* [15:48] Stickman: Is there a timeline on llRegionSayTo? I'm curious if I'd be able to use it in a product I'm currently developing, or if I should release and update later.
* [15:48] Simon: Linden: I'm hoping to wrap things up this week and get it into testing soon
* [15:48] ANSI: llReurnItemsFrom(key uuid);
* [15:48] Draconis: Neurocam: what did kelly say, i was out of listening range?
* [15:49] Sigma: Avro: still not with attachements the llRegionSayTo ?
* [15:49] Stickman: Re mono2-performance: [15:46
* [15:49] Simon: Linden: I'm not sure how long that process plus the release pipeline will be, but given that it's probably at least a month from the full grid
* [15:49] Draconis: Neurocam: ah thanks
* [15:49] Oskar: Linden: a month at the absolute earliest
* [15:50] Simon: Linden: For attachments, they will get llRegionSayTo() messages that are sent to the AV
* [15:50] Sigma: Avro: and what about the idea off having some prims (like the telehub has) to relay on others sims ?
* [15:50] Simon: Linden: or directly to them
* [15:50] Stickman: At least a month. Alright, thanks. I can work with that.
* [15:50] Coyot: LindenCoyot Linden thinks about it being a month. Hmm.
* [15:50] Simon: Linden: Right, a month would be special smooth sailing, with no lag
* [15:50] Simon: Linden: So it's gonna be longer
* [15:51] Stickman: For sure. Definitely taking that as a minimum timetable.
* [15:51] Homeless: everything takes longer than you expect
* [15:51] Rex: Cronon: maybe i don't want all attachments to hear what llregionsayto ave r saying
* [15:51] Coyot: Linden: Under the current paradigm, it would spend at least a week on aditi and a week in an RC, so that's half your month right there.
* [15:51] Stickman: I'm well aware of things taking longer than you expect. This product I'm working on was planned to release in September 2009. :p
* [15:52] Homeless: lol
* [15:52] Simon: Linden: Exactly ... it _might_ get into QA next week, so that's my blowing-hot-air guess
* [15:52] Oskar: Linden: you should name it after the release date stickman
* [15:52] Oskar: Linden: call it 909
* [15:52] Stickman: 909, an ode to 404.
* [15:52] Oskar: Linden: any other questions or things to talk about?
* [15:53] Liisa: RunoLiisa Runo is sure that the llReturn that ANSI mentioned will arrive fast. It will be so very usefull https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-19
* [15:53] Coyot: Linden: I had a 404 but I can't find it anymore.
* [15:53] Sigma: Avro: Another question : mesh penetration will be on the phys prims right ? so, how will encrachment work with them ?
* [15:53] Sigma: Avro: *encroachment
* [15:53] Stickman: I had a question to Kelly about some script issues I'm having. More of a scripting issue, but if I can bend his ear before Monday I'd love to.
* [15:53] Oskar: Linden: I don't know
* [15:53] Oskar: Linden: kelly. can your ear be bent?
* [15:54] Kelly: Linden: sup?
* [15:55] Stickman: I've got a script that "skirts" the edge of maximum memory. By about 6k. Sometimes it crashes with a stack-heap, sometimes not. The memory allocation seems to be random, probably being "smart" based on previous memory usage. But I suspect garbage collection not happening at the same time is the issue, as pushing a script right up to the edge of memory usage doesn't seem to force a crash with random allocation.
* [15:55] Sigma: Avro: encroachment on meshes ? if there is an angel passing by
* [15:55] Stickman: So basically, I suspect my script is crashing due to a lack of garbage collection.
* [15:56] Kelly: Linden: Stickman: when we get 'close' to the limit we walk the object tree for all memory the script is holding a reference to. GC doesn't come into play.
* [15:56] Kelly: Linden: So, your suspicion should be incorrect.
* [15:56] Stickman: Hm.
* [15:56] Stickman: I'd like to find the source of this random stack-heap. The script is a little complex. I tried some simpler repros and didn't have that much success with crashing. I think I'll have to dig deeper.
* [15:57] Stickman: Might still be my fault.
* [15:57] Coyot: Linden: It's all San Andreas' fault
* [15:57] Kelly: Linden: However I'm not quite sure *exactly* how ArrayList allocation plays into the memory calculations.
* [15:57] Sigma: Avro: ifigures on wiki are false
* [15:58] Sigma: Avro: have tested with different scripts, making crash the script
* [15:58] Sigma: Avro: and dont ' see the reasons why this figures do not fit
* [15:59] Stickman: What figures? Memory usage as explained on the wiki, Smile?
* [15:59] Sigma: Avro: no, variables memory usage
* [15:59] Log: Linden: later folks
* [16:00] Stickman: Using those to calculate would be nice, sure. They're user-obtained through testing, though, and we don't have the best tools. Would be nice if a Linden could go over those and check the values.
* [16:00] Stickman: Would you have time for that at some point, Kelly? Lemme grab a link if you haven't seen it.
* [16:00] Stickman: 
* [16:00] Sigma: Avro: yes, would enjoy having correct presumed figures for them, and coucou
* [16:00] Oskar: Linden: it is 4 o'clock
* [16:00] Coyot: Linden: Oskar, are we adjourned?
* [16:01] Oskar: Linden: we are
* [16:01] Oskar: Linden: thank you all for attending
* [16:01] Coyot: Linden: cool,
* [16:01] Coyot: LindenCoyot Linden goes back to breaking grids
* [16:01] Kelly: Linden: I am unlikely to find time to verify those results any time soon, sorry.
* [16:01] Coyot: Linden: ;)
* [16:01] Simon: Linden: Thanks everyone for coming and the good discussion
* [16:01] ANSI: thanks for stopping by oskar
* [16:01] Oskar: Linden: have a good rest of the week!