Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-10

==Attendees List==
*any1 Gynoid (any1.gynoid)
*Brota Kornfeld (brota.kornfeld)
*claudia222 Jewell (claudia222.jewell)
*Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
*draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
*Ima Mechanique (ima.mechanique)
*Jira Helper (jira.helper)
*Lorca Linden (lorca.linden)
*M√¶stro Linden (maestro.linden)
*MaV (matu) (mav.(matu))
*Motor Loon (motor.loon)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nathan Zetkin (nathan.zetkin)
*Object (object)
*Rex Cronon (rex.cronon)
*Sandry Logan (sandry.logan)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Shimmering Rift (shimmering.rift)
*And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
*TheBlack Box (theblack.box)
*Theresa Tennyson (theresa.tennyson)
==Transcript for Thursday May 10, 2012==
[16:02]	Lorca Linden 	alright well let's get started
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	first thing I want to ask : has anyone in this group had the chance to play around with the height defaults for characters?
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid 	WB Nathan! HH Advanced Scripting Teacher... u rock and stuff!
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid 	WB Brota!
[16:03]	Dahlia Trimble 	<.< >.>
[16:03]	Nathan Zetkin 	smiles
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	anyone, anyone, Buler?
[16:03]	Sandry Logan 	yes a bit. but i have had nothing to show because the "animations" were broken
[16:03]	any1 Gynoid 	Hiya Sandry! Nice to meet u!
[16:05]	Shimmering Rift 	/me crackles with electricity.
[16:05]	Second Life 	Entering god mode, level 200
[16:06]	Second Life 	Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/LI%20Devbox%202/133/100/23
[16:07]	Second Life 	Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/PathDev4/97/184/41
[16:07]	Motor Loon 	good timing
[16:07]	M√¶stro Linden 	Welcome to DRTSIM-100D 12.05.10.256426
[16:07]	Lorca Linden 	i'm back ;)
[16:07]	M√¶stro Linden 	which hopefully has the crash fix
[16:07]	Motor Loon 	guess we'll see ,-)
[16:07]	Lorca Linden 	so we really need feedback on height defaults asap for that feedback to be actionable
[16:08]	Sandry Logan 	is there an update to the pathfinding servers on agni too?
[16:08]	Falcon Linden 	That was fun!
[16:08]	Falcon Linden 	Sandry: tomorrow
[16:08]	Ima Mechanique 	sheesh it was hard work getting here
[16:08]	Sandry Logan 	ok
[16:08]	Falcon Linden 	ima: the region went down to restart on the new version right as we got started :)
[16:08]	Lorca Linden 	it was a planned demonstration
[16:08]	Ima Mechanique 	I crashed or was logged 3-4 times
[16:08]	Dahlia Trimble 	me too
[16:09]	Sandry Logan 	i have been hoping that the fixes for llSetRot et al were coming because it seemed pointless to say i had anything to show you guys wrt heights when it all looked so terrible without animation
[16:09]	Lorca Linden 	yeah, some hiccups with the code migration I imagine
[16:09]	Falcon Linden 	I think it's fixed?
[16:09]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro?
[16:09]	Sandry Logan 	it is here, for quite a few days, but i don't have it on agni yet
[16:09]	Falcon Linden 	ah, then tomorrow
[16:09]	any1 Gynoid 	I'm satisfied it's fixed on Aditi..... not agni... ohhh good!
[16:10]	Falcon Linden 	barring any unforeseen problems with this version
[16:10]	Sandry Logan 	/me smiles cool
[16:10]	M√¶stro Linden 	Well, the really depends on whether the crasher was really fixed with this new version
[16:10]	M√¶stro Linden 	*that really
[16:10]	Falcon Linden 	it was.
[16:10]	Lorca Linden 	so if you all can play around with the height values in the next week, that would be awesome
[16:10]	Falcon Linden 	maybe.
[16:11]	Lorca Linden 	falcon, do you have anyting in particular on the agenda to discuss, or shall we open it up to questions?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden 	Not particularly. Just a reminder about those llWanderWithin changes
[16:11]	Rex Cronon 	thank u:)
[16:11]	Lorca Linden 	yup, oh and also any suggestions as to the ABCD value defalt names?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden 	oh, and it turns out I found a way to muck with the CHARACTER_TYPEs without requiring you to recompile your scripts
[16:11]	Falcon Linden 	so yay
[16:12]	And all I got was this lousy DN	timing on that could have been better:P
[16:12]	Falcon Linden 	and llGetClosestNavPoint now takes CHARACTER_TYPE and CLOSEST_NAV_POINT_RADIUS arguments
[16:12]	Lorca Linden 	we are thinking Animal, Vegtable, Mineral, and things that do not start with the letter m
[16:12]	Falcon Linden 	correction, that's GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS
[16:13]	any1 Gynoid 	man, woman, humanoid NPCs.... would be nice to be within your scope
[16:13]	Falcon Linden 	men and women usually walk on different surfaces?
[16:13]	M√¶stro Linden 	well
[16:13]	Lorca Linden 	yeah, in seriousness we have considered humaniod, creature, mechanical, and other
[16:13]	M√¶stro Linden 	you may set the walkability of the men's room, and vice-versa
[16:13]	Lorca Linden 	or biped, quadraped, vehicle, and other
[16:13]	Motor Loon 	Men walk on livingroom surface, Women talk on kitchensurfaces
[16:13]	Motor Loon 	¬∞Õú¬∞
[16:13]	Falcon Linden 	maestro: true. But rare. :P
[16:14]	Sandry Logan 	i rather liked the one Maestro suggested with biped, pet, wild animal, vehicle
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden 	Yeah, I think it would be useful to segregate by function
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	That has the problem of not providing an "other"
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden 	hm
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	it is most useful to segregate by function
[16:14]	Dahlia Trimble 	whats difference between wild animal and pet?
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	I'd consider blending all animals
[16:14]	Lorca Linden 	those are good defaults, but I like having an "other" bucket if possible
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	Dahlia: probably that wild animals wouldn't walk on paths/inside
[16:14]	M√¶stro Linden 	like maybe you wouldn't let wild animals in your house, but would allow your cat inside
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	thing is, you probably shouldn't rely on walkability to do that. You need a fence. :)
[16:15]	M√¶stro Linden 	that's true
[16:15]	Dahlia Trimble 	probably but sometimes they get in the house :(
[16:15]	Theresa Tennyson 	My cat sneaks out anyway.
[16:15]	Falcon Linden 	Yeah, so I'd vote for
[16:15]	Sandry Logan 	as someone involved primarily with animals i liked the idea, but yeah, the biped, quad, vehicle, other probably gives a better scope
[16:15]	Falcon Linden 	Humanoid, Non-human animal, vehicle (mechnical?), other
[16:15]	M√¶stro Linden 	sure
[16:16]	Sandry Logan 	something like that
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden 	falcon, so would the constants keep the same name?
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	yes
[16:16]	Rex Cronon 	i don't think it matters how u call the types, what matters what type of locomotion they use
[16:16]	Dahlia Trimble 	I was kinda thinking small thingie, largest avatar capsule, vehicle, and maybe a tiny thingie
[16:16]	MaV (matu) 	elemental :P
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	we might provide additional constants for convenience
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden 	what are we deciding, exactly? just the suggestions in the wiki page?
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	for the UI
[16:16]	M√¶stro Linden 	Okay
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	and maybe new convenience constants for lsl
[16:16]	Dahlia Trimble 	is it just height, or is there a radius also?
[16:16]	Motor Loon 	seems clever enough
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	dahlia: this is separate from the height issue
[16:17]	Lorca Linden 	yeah we want the suggestions in the UI maestro, not enough people will ever read our wiki
[16:17]	claudia222 Jewell 	for birds for example
[16:17]	Lorca Linden 	<---- is a realist on such things
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	but characters have both a height and a radius. If they're horizontal, their height is really their length
[16:17]	Rex Cronon 	u can something like: crawlers, walkers, jumpers, flyers?
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	claudia222: birds don't work very well. The only way to make them work would involve invisible platforms which couldn't connect to the ground anyway
[16:17]	Rex Cronon 	u can have *
[16:17]	M√¶stro Linden 	Alright, that crasher is fixed! This build might be a good candidate for Agni after all!
[16:18]	And all I got was this lousy DN	lol
[16:18]	any1 Gynoid 	wwoot
[16:18]	MaV (matu) 	you tried to crash us all? :P
[16:18]	Falcon Linden 	rex: anything can jump. llExecCharacterCmd(CHARACTER_CMD_JUMP, [float height])...or something like that
[16:18]	Falcon Linden 	maestro: but do the wandering changes work? :P
[16:18]	Falcon Linden 	let's find out. Come with me
[16:19]	M√¶stro Linden 	haven't tried yet
[16:21]	draconis.neurocam 	where did we go?
[16:21]	draconis.neurocam 	or
[16:23]	Lorca Linden 	hmm
[16:23]	Falcon Linden 	(where you actually do care about updating them each frame)
[16:24]	TheBlack Box 	i wonder what amounts of characters per sim will we a reasonable maximum ?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden 	so we still strongly recommend you change your objects to walkable/static obstacle where possible
[16:24]	TheBlack Box 	what should we expect ?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden 	We estimate that in a well crafted region, each character should take about 50us to simulate
[16:24]	M√¶stro Linden 	Hm Falcon, perhaps the viewer should flag that condition?
[16:24]	Nathan Zetkin 	does HTTP_BODY_MAXLENGTH work on pathfinding sims?
[16:24]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro: no. Too much work too often
[16:24]	any1 Gynoid 	<-- done some stress tests... 5 X Spare Time will avoid any noticable lag... http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-785902
[16:25]	M√¶stro Linden 	Nathan : probably, if it works on the main channel? Give it a try :)
[16:25]	Falcon Linden 	any1: until you have some agents log in
[16:25]	Nathan Zetkin 	I tried it a few days ago and it didn't
[16:25]	Rex Cronon 	why the move?
[16:25]	Nathan Zetkin 	this was on agni
[16:25]	any1 Gynoid 	i think we need some user LSL... that manages number of NPCs... based on available spare time..
[16:26]	Falcon Linden 	We actually have code for that that we plan to release
[16:26]	any1 Gynoid 	plus NPC crashes
[16:26]	any1 Gynoid 	very cool!
[16:26]	Falcon Linden 	sample code that manages the number of NPCs
[16:26]	Falcon Linden 	is llGetCharacterTime documented, maestro?
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden 	it's not a function,
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden 	it's a flag for llGetObjectDetails
[16:26]	MaV (matu) 	oh that
[16:26]	M√¶stro Linden 	OBJECT_CHARACTER_TIME, I think? units in seconds
[16:26]	MaV (matu) 	i was about to ask about it :P
[16:26]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro: yeah, that
[16:27]	Lorca Linden 	actually we made a lot of use of that feature in the wilderness, we build a variable rezzers system that modulates how many environmental creatures are released into each region based on server performacne and individual script time
[16:27]	M√¶stro Linden 	that may not be in the wiki, since I don't know how to flag it for "this only works in pathfinding"
[16:27]	Lorca Linden 	it's worked really well and allowed us to significantly increase the # of pathfinding creatures in the wilderness under most circumstances
[16:27]	any1 Gynoid 	excellent!... love hearing this!
[16:27]	MaV (matu) 	any other not listed? :P
[16:27]	Falcon Linden 	One way that you can detect that your NPC has gotten into a bad state is to watch for times exceeding 7.5e-5 (that's 75us)
[16:28]	Lorca Linden 	we will release the tmemplates for our master rezzers in the wilderness when pathfinding goes live, the character level script performance monitorinig was really useful
[16:28]	Falcon Linden 	we've found that most characters take about 50us per frame under normal conditions
[16:28]	TheBlack Box 	thanks !
[16:28]	Falcon Linden 	also, has anyone experimented with pathfinding enabled doors?
[16:28]	Falcon Linden 	I have an example script somewhere from a resident who was kind enough to build an example house with autorezzing door
[16:28]	MaV (matu) 	if you set them as static they brake :P
[16:28]	Falcon Linden 	That will be made available at some point too
[16:28]	MaV (matu) 	break*
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	The correct solution is for the walkable house to rez out its door
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	and for the door to use llSetKeyframedMotion
[16:29]	M√¶stro Linden 	you can still use llSetRot() if you don't care about looks, of course
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	that was done for the doors in the wilderness, also
[16:29]	TheBlack Box 	i really only experiment with a thing i have been worlking on that is similar to Polyworld (simulated ecolution stuff) .... with pathfinding that is a lot of fun
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro: no, you can't
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro: if you do, the navmesh won't update immediately. :P
[16:29]	M√¶stro Linden 	hmph, okay
[16:30]	Falcon Linden 	llSetPos and llSetRot incur significant penalties, so they are throttled in terms of their effect on the navmesh
[16:30]	Falcon Linden 	also, an object that changes its shape is HUGELY throttled. We will process only one such change per second for the entire region
[16:30]	Falcon Linden 	(the policy is fair in that every object will get its turn...eventually)
[16:31]	Falcon Linden 	and I mean that we throttle the affect on the navmesh, not the actual change. So the shape will change and the navmesh will be wrong for a while.
[16:31]	Falcon Linden 	Translation: don't make objects that change their physical shape :)
[16:31]	Rex Cronon 	by changing shape do u mean increasing/decreasing its size?
[16:31]	any1 Gynoid 	what about NPCs that change shape? they are not part of navmesh
[16:31]	M√¶stro Linden 	Rex: either that or something like changing the pathcut setting
[16:31]	Falcon Linden 	Rex: changing size or primitive params
[16:31]	M√¶stro Linden 	or changing between box/sphere or something
[16:32]	Falcon Linden 	any1: They can change size freely with llUpdateCharacter
[16:32]	Falcon Linden 	If you're changing the size up, we will reject the change if it causes the character to penetrate a wall or floor, etc.
[16:33]	And all I got was this lousy DN	what about changing a sphere into a box and back?
[16:33]	M√¶stro Linden 	Falcon, wouldn't that cause most changes that make the character taller to be blocked?
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	So make sure you have enough room, or let us handle that automatically, but that's expected behavior (that in a tight space a character can't go from crawling to standing, e.g.)
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	maestro: I was wondering about that.
[16:33]	M√¶stro Linden 	or would you automatically move the character upwards according to the new height?
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	probably. You would need to llSetPos() first...
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	but we don't
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	we don't move it upward. We probably should
[16:33]	Falcon Linden 	lag.
[16:34]	Falcon Linden 	"We probably should, but we don't"
[16:34]	Rex Cronon 	or switching between prim, sculptie and mesh?
[16:34]	any1 Gynoid 	<-- thinking mostly about "ambulating" characters.. walking motions.. mostly deal with llSetRot changes
[16:34]	Dahlia Trimble 	how about something like that?
[16:34]	Falcon Linden 	rex: correct, though if it's a shape type none character, it's okay
[16:34]	Falcon Linden 	any1: none of those will cause a problem so long as they're on child prims
[16:34]	any1 Gynoid 	k great! thx
[16:34]	Falcon Linden 	a character is always and only just a capsule. Its size and orientation can change, but that's it.
[16:35]	Sandry Logan 	speaking of shapoe none.... i read in one of the other meeting transcripts about a change in the way that LI will be caculated and capping the streaming cost at the number of primitives in a linkset. is there any news of when this might happen?
[16:35]	M√¶stro Linden 	you can also rescale the root prim of a character without any physical effect
[16:35]	Falcon Linden 	Sandry: that change is already on agni in pathfinding regions except for a bug affecting sculpts that will be fixed with tomorrow's deploy
[16:35]	M√¶stro Linden 	It's done in this version, Sandy
[16:35]	Sandry Logan 	ok cool. thank you :c)
[16:36]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro: right. Changing the root prim's scale does not automatically update the character's height/radius
[16:36]	M√¶stro Linden 	server cost is now num_prims*0.5 + num_scripts*0.25
[16:36]	Nathan Zetkin 	yay
[16:36]	Falcon Linden 	and sculpts can have a streaming cost of up to 2
[16:36]	M√¶stro Linden 	streaming cost is capped at 1.0 for legacy prims and 2.0 for sculpts
[16:36]	Falcon Linden 	physics cost is unchanged as it continues to accurately reflect simulator load :)
[16:37]	Sandry Logan 	oh, so my LI may still increase
[16:37]	Falcon Linden 	no
[16:37]	M√¶stro Linden 	well, it can
[16:37]	Falcon Linden 	oh, you mean on account of physics?
[16:37]	Falcon Linden 	Yes
[16:37]	Falcon Linden 	Make your physics shape better and it will go down :)
[16:37]	M√¶stro Linden 	if your linkset is mostly sculpts, you can have a higher LI due to streaming cost
[16:38]	M√¶stro Linden 	like 30 sculpts in a linkset will have a LI of up to 60, if the sculpts are all big
[16:38]	M√¶stro Linden 	due to streaming cost
[16:38]	Falcon Linden 	in no case will the LI be higher than it used to be for mesh accounting based builds. It's just that moving to the new accounting may cause the cost to go up if the build contains sculpts or bad physics shapes
[16:39]	Lorca Linden 	any other questions on that topic
[16:39]	Lorca Linden 	?
[16:39]	Falcon Linden 	or in general?
[16:39]	any1 Gynoid 	silly question... are you talking real money here? or just server / lag load?
[16:39]	Dahlia Trimble 	dynamic linksets?
[16:39]	Falcon Linden 	just Land Impact
[16:40]	Falcon Linden 	dahlia: as in physical?
[16:40]	Dahlia Trimble 	such as those which change pos/rot
[16:40]	Dahlia Trimble 	like the example I rezzed there
[16:40]	TheBlack Box 	those LI changes are for all legacy prims ? or just when a pathfinding character is inside ?
[16:40]	Falcon Linden 	LI doesn't account for changes to pos/rot on nonphysical objects. On physical objects, there is a scale factor applied to the physics weight based on size
[16:40]	Falcon Linden 	The changes apply to:
[16:41]	Falcon Linden 	1) Any linkset containing one or more meshes
[16:41]	Dahlia Trimble 	I meant if it affects pathfinding
[16:41]	Dahlia Trimble 	throttling and all that
[16:41]	Falcon Linden 	2) Any linkset containing one or more prims with a physics shape type other than "PRIM"
[16:41]	M√¶stro Linden 	By rights, an object like that should have a very high server cost since it slows the sim down significantly, but it doesn't
[16:41]	Falcon Linden 	Dahlia: yes. But it's not throttled as heavily as shape changes
[16:41]	Falcon Linden 	it still negatively impacts performance and can cause the entire region's pathfinding updates to be throttled
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	ah I see
[16:42]	MaV (matu) 	do you think PATHBUG-32 will happen before PF getting released?
[16:42]	Jira Helper 	[#PATHBUG-32] Add server support and UI elements to enable/disable Pathfinding https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-32
[16:42]	Falcon Linden 	yeah, llSetPos and llSetRot and friends are bad mojo in general
[16:42]	TheBlack Box 	k thanks
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	but the scripts are not throttled?
[16:42]	Falcon Linden 	matu: not as UI elements, but via the sim console
[16:42]	MaV (matu) 	ah nice
[16:42]	Lorca Linden 	mav yes
[16:42]	M√¶stro Linden 	is it moving at full speed now, Dahlia?
[16:42]	Lorca Linden 	for region owners
[16:42]	Falcon Linden 	dahlia: no, scripts are not throttled except that if your changes cause you to have less spare time, there's less time for all scripts
[16:42]	Motor Loon 	I think it'd be reasonable for EM's to disallow PF on a region
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	its trying lol
[16:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	it should go faster
[16:42]	Falcon Linden 	motor: yes, any EM will be able to enable/disable pathfinding via the console
[16:43]	Motor Loon 	ok
[16:43]	Nathan Zetkin 	will there ever be a pathfinding time in the statistics bar?
[16:43]	Falcon Linden 	not specifically, no
[16:43]	Falcon Linden 	it is lumped in with physics time
[16:44]	M√¶stro Linden 	It might be nice to have a category in Time Details for that part of physics time
[16:44]	Falcon Linden 	if there's enough interest, we could at some point add an lsl call to fetch it
[16:44]	Falcon Linden 	maestro: I'm not sure if that's an extensible message.
[16:44]	Falcon Linden 	worth investigating, though
[16:44]	any1 Gynoid 	<-- burning question... does SL pathfinding use Dijkstra's algorthim... or A* or D* or something more smexy and exotic?
[16:44]	Falcon Linden 	A*
[16:44]	MaV (matu) 	it wouldnt hurt to have it :P
[16:45]	Falcon Linden 	A* for path searches, a proprietary local steering solution, dynamic navmesh modification, and a bunch of random code I added.
[16:45]	Falcon Linden 	:P
[16:45]	TheBlack Box 	i think it will become important to have as many tools as possible for pathfinding performance checks .... i guess simulated eco-systems will become a trend .... a merge of breedable SL pets and Polyworld-like simulated ecosystems
[16:45]	And all I got was this lousy DN	aka, undocumented features... :D
[16:45]	Falcon Linden 	box: that...would be...awesome
[16:46]	Lorca Linden 	as a side note, according to havok, this is the first time anyone has tried to impliment pathfinding in a large scale, 3d world with dynamic content creation
[16:46]	TheBlack Box 	also reminds me of that early-days SL video with the creatures :)
[16:46]	Rex Cronon 	just don't make rabbits. they will reproduce like crazy:)
[16:46]	Theresa Tennyson 	Will pathfinding allow you to make rideable vehicles that follow roads?
[16:46]	Motor Loon 	was just thinking of those old videos
[16:46]	Falcon Linden 	Box: Apparently Philip noticed that, too, or so I'm told :)
[16:46]	And all I got was this lousy DN	/me makes tribbels
[16:46]	Falcon Linden 	theresa: with care, yes
[16:46]	TheBlack Box 	hehe great :)
[16:47]	Falcon Linden 	but that's a fairly advanced thing to implement
[16:47]	Falcon Linden 	but it should be possible
[16:47]	Dahlia Trimble 	ya Im curious about self navigating vehicles also, how will they know how to stay on a road and on the proper side
[16:47]	Lorca Linden 	ABCD values can be used for that purpose
[16:47]	And all I got was this lousy DN	thatll depends on what crountry the road is in
[16:47]	Rex Cronon 	u put fences around the road?
[16:47]	Motor Loon 	¬∞Õú¬∞
[16:47]	Falcon Linden 	Lorca: yeah, but that can't easily handle staying in your lane
[16:47]	TheBlack Box 	Rex: funny thing is ... birth-rates are really a dangerorous thing to but into the genes for evolutionary creatures :) that gets wild fast
[16:48]	Falcon Linden 	Probably an exclusion volume in the center divider would do it
[16:48]	Falcon Linden 	a jersey divider would definitely do it
[16:48]	any1 Gynoid 	if someone's going the wrong way round.. heaven help us all lol
[16:48]	Falcon Linden 	intersections would be tricky
[16:48]	Theresa Tennyson 	Right now, on my motorcycle I'm doing good if I stay on the road at all.
[16:48]	Theresa Tennyson 	And I don't do good that often,
[16:48]	And all I got was this lousy DN	and upright
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	I say, make roads shared single lane :)
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	just...wide
[16:49]	Rex Cronon 	u don't need pathfinding for vehicles to follow a predifined path
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	Rex is right, of course.
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden 	Falcon, do you have that 'dukes of hazzard' type video link handy?
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	llSetKeyframedMotion is better
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden 	that had a really good example of pathfinding vehicles
[16:49]	M√¶stro Linden 	(or Lorca)
[16:49]	Lorca Linden 	Well, you could have them stay in the right lane so long as you used two character types, and set half of the road (via a volume) to 0% or am I missing something?
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	yeah, one sec
[16:49]	Falcon Linden 	Lorca: which lane is "right" depends on your orientation
[16:49]	Dahlia Trimble 	well something has to tell the script where the road is
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden 	Hm,
[16:50]	Lorca Linden 	yeah check out this video for a neat vehicle chase with pathfinding :
[16:50]	Lorca Linden 	http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/04/impressive-sl-pathfinding-test-with-cars-is-impressive.html
[16:50]	any1 Gynoid 	umm btw... at least my vision for pathfinding is to end vacant city streets... and forests... I don't want to go to Paris in SL.. and find it post apocalyptic deserted
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden 	you could have the eastern lane in a north-south road by set to one type walkability
[16:50]	Falcon Linden 	any1: that would rock. We really need to add animation for that
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden 	and have it 10% walkable for type A (northbound) and 100% walkable for type B (southbound)
[16:50]	M√¶stro Linden 	then switch things up for the southbound traffic
[16:51]	Falcon Linden 	I would like to, at some point, figure out a way to let you do llGetPath()
[16:51]	any1 Gynoid 	<-- what my next class will do.... we can animate... no problem
[16:51]	M√¶stro Linden 	then cars could switch their character type when they take a turn
[16:51]	Falcon Linden 	maybe we could support that if it only queried the uncut mesh.
[16:51]	Lorca Linden 	I agree any1, and hopefully if we get a full fledged animation system in it could really bring many areas to life
[16:51]	Lorca Linden 	Falcon and I are big proponents of that idea ;)
[16:51]	Falcon Linden 	So it would give you back a path which would be correct as long as nothing on the path was set to moveable object
[16:52]	Falcon Linden 	so it would work great for roads
[16:52]	Falcon Linden 	and the path wouldn't need to be updated because it explicitly ignores moveable obstacles
[16:53]	Falcon Linden 	it would be particularly handy for setting up trains/vehicles where you could do llGetPath() and then use those as inputs to llSetKeyframedMotion
[16:53]	Rex Cronon 	u would have a motorcycle passing thorugh a bus:0
[16:53]	Falcon Linden 	true.
[16:53]	Theresa Tennyson 	You've seen me on Route 8 then?
[16:53]	Dahlia Trimble 	does llGetPath() exist yet?
[16:53]	Falcon Linden 	but as long as you control the content in the region, it's no problem
[16:53]	Rex Cronon 	:)
[16:53]	Falcon Linden 	Dahlia: I just came up with the idea now :)
[16:54]	Dahlia Trimble 	ah ok :)
[16:54]	Falcon Linden 	at least, the key part of the idea: explicitly ignored movable obstacles
[16:54]	Dahlia Trimble 	or get a new path when a collision occurs
[16:54]	Rex Cronon 	i guess this is more of a brainstorming session:)
[16:54]	Ima Mechanique 	Falcon, how current are the wiki pages for the LSL functions/constants?
[16:55]	Falcon Linden 	moderately :P
[16:55]	Falcon Linden 	Maestro might know better than I
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden 	fairly
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden 	which page?
[16:56]	TheBlack Box 	oh btw ... is CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED fixed already ? earlier today i still had to use the integer value instead
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden 	llWanderWithin() is totally up to date now
[16:56]	Lorca Linden 	5 minute warning
[16:56]	Ima Mechanique 	well all of them really. I'm updating my master xml file with a few things wondered if it's worth going through them all again
[16:56]	M√¶stro Linden 	Hm, Falcon renamed CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED, i think? We should update the wiki for the new name
[16:57]	TheBlack Box 	ah thanks
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden 	(what is the new name?)
[16:57]	Theresa Tennyson 	I see that when a region is set for pathfinding everything defaults to "movable." Is there a reason for that?
[16:57]	And all I got was this lousy DN	thats the default stting
[16:57]	MaV (matu) 	to not break stuff suppose :P
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden 	It's to avoid breaking content
[16:57]	Ima Mechanique 	Ithat's CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED now yes?
[16:57]	M√¶stro Linden 	ah yes, that sounds right Ima
[16:58]	Ima Mechanique 	I added that to my file last week
[16:58]	Falcon Linden 	yes
[16:58]	Object 	Hello, Avatar!
[16:58]	Lorca Linden 	just a reminder : please play around with characterheights and comment on the JIRA by next week's meeting
[16:58]	Object 	CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED = 12
[16:59]	Lorca Linden 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-96 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	Jira Helper 	[#PATHBUG-96] Suggested Character Types https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	Jira Helper 	[#PATHBUG-95] Suggested Character Height https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-95
[16:59]	TheBlack Box 	oh .. llPersue still stops too early for some reason i dont understand ... i tried to work around it with small offets+fuzzfactor .. but doesnt help
[16:59]	Lorca Linden 	60 seconds!
[17:00]	TheBlack Box 	my creatures stop pursueing before they get into bite-range ... and then they starve :(
[17:00]	M√¶stro Linden 	It might be trying to avoid the target
[17:00]	Motor Loon 	poor things
[17:00]	M√¶stro Linden 	try disabling that with CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE
[17:00]	Falcon Linden 	Yep.
[17:00]	TheBlack Box 	ok
[17:00]	Falcon Linden 	also, there's PURSUIT_TOLERANCE
[17:01]	Falcon Linden 	or maybe PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE
[17:01]	M√¶stro Linden 	.... yeah I don't think that's in the wiki yet
[17:01]	Falcon Linden 	something involving pursuit and tolerance. It defaults to a number based on the size of your object, but you might want to set it lower
[17:01]	TheBlack Box 	those params need some documentation i think
[17:01]	Lorca Linden 	alright, that's a wrap for today. Same time same next week on pathtest1. Also, if you or anyone you know is interested in being part of the beta, tell them to email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com asap. It is likely we will just have 1 more batch of resident regions added.
[17:01]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty Lindens :)
[17:01]	TheBlack Box 	thanks :)
[17:01]	M√¶stro Linden 	CHARACTER_AVOIDANCE_MODE is pretty well covered in llCreateCharacter's page
[17:01]	Rex Cronon 	at least list they name(hopefully their values too)
[17:01]	MaV (matu) 	thanks
[17:01]	Falcon Linden 	Very quickly, here are some of the newish params. I don't know if they're all on the wiki
[17:01]	Sandry Logan 	thank you
[17:01]	Rex Cronon 	tc everybody
[17:02]	Brota Kornfeld 	tc
[17:02]	M√¶stro Linden 	thanks for coming
[17:02]	And all I got was this lousy DN	have a great friday, everyone
[17:02]	M√¶stro Linden 	okay update the 'CHARACTER_DESIRED_TURN_SPEED' name in the wiki
[17:02]	TheBlack Box 	yes Maestro ... PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE / PURSUIT_TOLERANCE is new to me though
[17:02]	Falcon Linden 	CHARACTER_CMD_SMOOTH_STOP, PURSUIT_GOAL_TOLERANCE, PATROL_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, WANDER_PAUSE_AT_WAYPOINTS, GET_NAV_POINT_RADIUS
[17:02]	Nathan Zetkin 	have a good night all
[17:02]	Rex Cronon 	have a nice everybody:)
[17:02]	Falcon Linden 	night all
[17:02]	any1 Gynoid 	great meeting! ty LL... and TY for FIXING PATHBUGS 109 and 110 .. U TOTALLY ROCK!!!!
[17:02]	claudia222 Jewell 	bye all thanks
[17:02]	TheBlack Box 	nighty
[17:02]	Nal 	Thx
[17:03]	TheBlack Box 	yes ... pathfinding has developed awesomely btw !
[17:03]	M√¶stro Linden 	thanks guys
[17:03]	Lorca Linden 	thanks!
[17:03]	Lorca Linden 	and let us know if you have anything particularly cool, or bring some show and tell for the next user group
Generated by the 'Wikify SL Chat Log' utility by DG Products for Second Life (DGP4SL)