Commerce Office Hours/2009-11-17 20:00

* [20:05] Colossus Linden: alright folks
* [20:06] Lane Luke: hey Blue, Sin
* [20:06] Colossus Linden: Welcome
* Thank you all for coming this evening (8pm for me in San Francisco).
* To start, I'd love to get an idea of where folks are connecting from and for the merchants in the room, what types of products to you specialize in?
* This will give us an idea of if we're getting input from a broad spectrum of shoppers and merchants.
* [20:07] Blue Linden: hi still rezzing
* [20:07] Lane Luke: I actually don't have any adult content, I'm just nosy and avoiding going to bed
* [20:07] Frosty Insoo: waves at all and rezzes
* [20:07] Pink Linden: hi Frosty
* [20:07] ELQ Homewood: lol me too lane..but I have a number of customers that have adult clubs and the like, so I have an interest
* [20:07] Pink Linden: ot
* [20:07] Lane Luke: cool
* [20:07] Pink Linden: it's good too if you shop for adult merchandise too
* [20:07] Frosty Insoo: Hello Hello and don't come near me I'm like all germy =P
* [20:07] Colossus Linden: interesting ELQ
* [20:08] Pink Linden: because we can get that perspective too
* [20:08] Lane Luke: oh yes, I forgot that - I'm in Toronto
* [20:08] Colossus Linden: Hello to those just coming in.
* [20:08] Ann Otoole: i have some stuff that could be classified adult i guess. never really set it out for sale lol. if things become clear policywise and i no longer fear getting banned for not understanding the policy i might set it out classified correctly.
* [20:08] ELQ Homewood: I'm connecting from NC, USA, I'm a scripter and my product market is club owners, djs, and other entertainment professionals in SL
* [20:09] Myyst Jewell: looks down to see if she is stepping on someone or something
* [20:09] Colossus Linden: The topic today is Adult Content and Adult Policies on Xstreet SL
* [20:09] Pink Linden: Hi Myyst and welcome
* [20:09] Frosty Insoo: smiles
* [20:09] Colossus Linden: I think that will be an interesting perspective
* [20:09] Dartagan Shepherd: No adult here, adult friendly though. Mostly fantasy/rustic and gearing up for some backend dev toys, NY, USA
* [20:09] RPS HUD,2.10.02: shouts: Frosty Insoo has removed their RPS HUD!
* [20:09] Colossus Linden: We learned in this morning's session that this is a large topic which we can not cover entirely in an hour. So, we'll have to present the entirety of issues and then choose which ones we want to really focus on and discuss
* [20:10] Frosty Insoo: hands the bunny a carrot and listens
* [20:10] Colossus Linden: So, the Agenda for today is:
* [20:10] Colossus Linden: 1. Issues
* * state issues
* * capture additional issues
* 2. Project Areas
* * State project areas
* * determine which we'll tackle in this session
* * Discuss issues regarding project areas chosen
* 3. Solutions
* * present some options
* * accept other from crowd options
* * Discuss Options
* [20:10] Colossus Linden: I'll start by listing the issues which I have noticed or received feedback from the community on already
* [20:11] Colossus Linden: Issues:
* 
* 1. Current Xstreet Adult Listing Policies only consider the content of the listing, but not the actual purpose of the item the listing represents
* * Shoppers who are not interested in mature or adult content are confronted with mature images and listings for goods intended for adult purposes
* 2. Business shoppers are confronted with non work-safe listings
* * Major problem for business & education based users
* 3. Shoppers interested in explicit or adult goods must sift through non-adult listings to find what they want.
* 4. Targeted marketing
* * Merchants who wish to advertise only to shoppers shopping for explicit content can not.
* * Merchants who wish to advertise only to shoppers for non-explicit content can not.
* * listing enhancements may not provide enough value for items on uncensored.xstreetsl.com
* 5. Category specific issues or item type specific issues
* * Merchants selling skins must either sell in the uncensored ve
* [20:11] Colossus Linden: sorry, got cut off. There are a few more.
* [20:12] Colossus Linden: 5 Category specific issues or item type specific issues
* 
* * Merchants selling skins must either sell in the uncensored version of Xstreet or cover up the detail of their work
* * Gorean Content
* * revealing clothing (listed as adult or covered up)
* [20:12] Colossus Linden: 6. Some shoppers are unaware that the uncensored site exists or that the categories which are strictly adult exist.
* 
* * Gentalia for instance
* [20:12] Pink Linden: welcome Roxy and Alesia
* [20:13] Colossus Linden: 7. Preferences are not stored when you return to Xstreet
* [20:13] Colossus Linden: 8. Red warning at top of every adult content page
* [20:13] Colossus Linden: Also, earlier today, a few good questions came up
* [20:13] Colossus Linden: Other Questions:
* 
* 1. What is Mature?
* 2. What is a risque listings?
* 3. What about sex huds - its a hud for adult animations but may not necessarily show or talk about it explicitly?
* [20:14] Alesia Schumann: Hello Pink
* [20:14] Colossus Linden: Now, I have some idea on how to drive this conversation and keep it productive on such a large subject. Part of that is not trying to solve these issues right off the bat
* Let's start by seeing if there are issues related to adult content and policies that are not captured here
* So, I'll open up to the crowd for feedback
* [20:14] Colossus Linden: And I know that's a lot to read and may take you all a second :)
* [20:15] Pink Linden: or five. 
* [20:15] Roxy Daguerre: hey pink
* [20:15] Pink Linden: do you all think this captures the set of issues, before we work on solutions?
* [20:15] Pink Linden: did we miss anything?
* [20:15] Lane Luke: can't think of anything offhand not already covered
* [20:16] Frosty Insoo: This works both ways.. Adult mixing into Mature.. All Good
* [20:16] Casper Priestman: How about the dashboard on the SL account page listing adult content on the XstreetSL widget...new accounts logging in see items such as sex huds etc.
* [20:16] Colossus Linden: I should also add one very important piece of information that came up this morning regarding our goals
* [20:17] Colossus Linden: There are 2 purposes and this came up this morning. 1. To enable shoppers to not see adult content. 2. to enable merchants to better market adult content
* [20:17] Roxy Daguerre: if naughty bits are covered up, and since skins are something almost every citizen wears, why is it that its classified as Adult content
* [20:17] Colossus Linden: Thanks Casper. Someone mentioned that earlier and I had forgotten to compile it in.
* [20:17] Casper Priestman: :)
* [20:18] Lane Luke: I guess I'm not clear on one thing - are we trying to distinguish PG from mature and adult? or PG and mature from adult?
* [20:18] Pink Linden: Let me reiterate our commitment to adult merchants.
* [20:19] Ann Otoole: well according to the rules in world nudity is mature. add sexual conduct and it shifts to adult. Commercialize it (everything about xstreet is commercial) and it has to be on adult land.
* [20:19] Lane Luke: hmm I guess in line with the grid pg and mature together - adult separate
* [20:19] Colossus Linden: Lane I think that is one of the issues and I'll hold off from getting into a discussion on it for a short bit
* [20:19] Lane Luke: okay :)
* [20:20] ELQ Homewood: personally I'd like to see the dashboard and xstreet both save my preferences..it's annoying to keep having to set them all the time
* [20:20] Colossus Linden: So, any other issues, or shall I move on?
* [20:20] Blue Linden: hehe colossi and i were just talking abot that ELQ ;p
* [20:20] Blue Linden: hopefully someday they will save all that
* [20:20] Ann Otoole: (I hope we don't have to endure another 6 months of going back and forth about nudity being mature like we did re: zindra moves)
* [20:20] Colossus Linden: So, I've spent some time thinking about what separate sub-projects an adult content solution needs to consider
* [20:20] Colossus Linden: I'll present those
* [20:21] Colossus Linden: And once I do, we'll see if I'm missing an area and we'll decide which are most important to discuss in the time we have remaining
* [20:21] Colossus Linden: Projects:
* 
* 1. Policy update
* 2. Rating System (how many ratings, what are they, clearly defined)
* 3. Defining specific problematic categories or types of items (Gorean, Skins, etc.)
* 4. User Interface for viewing what one chooses (PG only, PG+Adult, Adult only)
* 5. View preferences being remembered
* 6. Presentation of adult content pages (warnings)
* 7. Adult section being marketed to users (opt in, opt out, how to inform users of uncensored site & categories)
* 8. Targeted marketing system for our merchants (PG only, Adult only).
* [20:21] Colossus Linden: I'll give you all a minute to read those.
* [20:21] Frosty Insoo: nods
* [20:21] Lane Luke: looks good
* [20:22] Ann Otoole: pretty good. thats why it is good to attend all these OH to see how it distills
* [20:22] Colossus Linden: If there are any issues that aren't covered within those project areas, please let me know and we'll add it.
* [20:22] Lane Luke: agreed Ann
* [20:22] Myyst Jewell: Torture items
* [20:22] Colossus Linden: Yeah, Ann can tell you that I didn't have these at this morning's session
* [20:22] Ann Otoole: lol
* [20:22] Colossus Linden: And they got refined in the afternoon session.
* [20:23] Dartagan Shepherd: probably overkill, but an opt in approach per-item would be nice, whether that's mature and up or PG and up ... view a skin with an extra button to "see more" explicit content for instance
* [20:23] Myyst Jewell: would torture items not sexual ones but medieval be considered adult or mature?
* [20:23] Colossus Linden: I will add that to the suggestions Dartagan
* [20:23] Frosty Insoo: I would love a definition on Adult vs Mature
* [20:23] Frosty Insoo: zips her lip
* [20:24] Alesia Schumann: I think everybody would love one. In all areas of SL!
* [20:24] Colossus Linden: Myyst, I think that that is part of #2
* [20:24] Pink Linden: Alesia I'm hoping to sidestep that one
* [20:24] Ann Otoole: well with xstreet everything is commercialized so it is a tad different from in world defs
* [20:24] Colossus Linden: pornography is obvious, but some areas are not. One of our goals is to develop clear guidelines so that merchants aren't struggling to properly list their items
* [20:24] Pink Linden: and focus simply on two groups...
* [20:25] Colossus Linden: So, this seems like a good place to start
* [20:25] Pink Linden: Hi MIlls and welcome
* [20:26] Colossus Linden: 2 ratings vs. 3 rating groups. I believe we use 3 different ratings in-world, but we do not need to use the same system on Xstreet
* [20:26] Mills Gullwing: what's going on here?
* [20:26] Pink Linden: I'll IM you and explain Mills
* [20:26] Mills Gullwing: okay
* [20:26] Colossus Linden: Thanks Pink
* [20:27] Colossus Linden: I saw an opinion for 2 from Frosty
* [20:28] Frosty Insoo: I sell Iems which are ..mean.. but not not Graphic
* [20:28] Frosty Insoo: Role play
* [20:28] Frosty Insoo: Not sexual
* [20:28] Colossus Linden: If we only had 2 categories, would those items end up in "Adult" or "non-Adult"?
* [20:28] Frosty Insoo: Non Adult
* [20:28] Pink Linden: what makes you say that Frosty? is it fear of not being seen?
* [20:29] Colossus Linden: What do folks think of a rating that is SFW (Safe For Work)
* [20:29] Frosty Insoo: I'm fine with them.. there is no graphic blood and no sexual nature
* [20:29] Frosty Insoo: But there is a sense of violence
* [20:29] Ann Otoole: on a side note do the banned words apply oon xstreet? i.e.; cannot have "BDSM", Domme, "sex", etc in listings?
* [20:29] Lane Luke: sfw is not an issue for me, so not easy for me to say
* [20:29] Roxy Daguerre: people at work who are sneaking in some SecondLife shouldn't be anyway
* [20:29] Roxy Daguerre: lol
* [20:30] Lane Luke: lol kind of my thought too Roxy
* [20:30] Lane Luke: why is that Xstreet's problem?
* [20:30] ELQ Homewood: geez you guys must be managers lol
* [20:30] Colossus Linden: Ann, can you point me toward that piece of our in-world policy? Do you mean if you're not on Zindra?
* [20:31] Colossus Linden: Luckily, I work somewhere where I can get away with viewing uncensored.xstreetsl.com... It's my job
* [20:31] Colossus Linden: :)
* [20:31] Pink Linden: I'd like to give an example of I May Colossus?
* [20:31] Casper Priestman: safe for work is a pretty broad spectrum by various definitions, to give it that label I imagine there would have to be monitoring of content and clean by literally anyone's standards
* [20:31] Lane Luke: haha
* [20:31] Roxy Daguerre: but if naughty bits are covered up and there's no blood or violence or just general no holds barrred creepiness
* [20:31] Pink Linden: if I may
* [20:31] Myyst Jewell: lol do what i do - Cell phone!
* [20:31] Colossus Linden: Are there any major issues with determining ratings that anyone wants to bring up?
* [20:31] Roxy Daguerre: can it not just be listed as non sexual?
* [20:32] Lane Luke: I'm not sure, but I would think a major issue for those who sell mature/adult content is that they be as "available" as pg items
* [20:32] Ann Otoole: actually Collossus it is the AO from Linden Lab. Linden Lab does not publish the words ye shall not speak. but they are banned from being in ads. and there are hard banned words and acronyms that cannot be used at all. like "loli" is hard banned.
* [20:32] ELQ Homewood: well, I mean, you could have an ad for something which is sexual in nature, but not a sexual ad, how would that fit?
* [20:32] Colossus Linden: So, if we have two ratings, can a nude skin be in the non-adult section or would you rather the merchant be forced to censor the images with the listing?
* [20:33] Ann Otoole: seems odd for the LL AO to not apply to xstreet too
* [20:33] Roxy Daguerre: most merchants who have been leap frogging thru the linden rules lately have personally policed themselfs to put the censorship marks over their naughty bits
* [20:33] Roxy Daguerre: already
* [20:33] Roxy Daguerre: so if you say that's a requirement, then we'll be all good
* [20:34] Myyst Jewell: I think the problem would be that is that determining what is sexual is subjective
* [20:34] Roxy Daguerre: instead of puttingus over with the the freakydeaky sex business
* [20:34] Ann Otoole: lol i have censored skins i wear when going to big media events just in case someone has some hack of a viewer to not display clothes layers.
* [20:34] Lane Luke: personally I don't think skins and shapes need to be covered up or considered adult - these are not things you can't already see anywhere inworld already
* [20:34] Lane Luke: and if you're at work - get back to work lol
* [20:34] Pink Linden: here's an example of waht we're thinking on this
* [20:34] Roxy Daguerre: personally i belive that too LaNE
* [20:35] Pink Linden: I think most people would agree having more shoppers on xstreetsl and in world is a good idea
* [20:35] Lane Luke: absolutely
* [20:35] Roxy Daguerre: duh
* [20:35] Roxy Daguerre: :)
* [20:35] Pink Linden: and one of the best ways we can find--so far-- to get people to try second life is to have them taste it at work or in a university setting
* [20:35] Roxy Daguerre: so stop making the customers leap thru rings of fire to get their goodies
* [20:35] Lane Luke: ahhhh
* [20:36] Pink Linden: but right now, for example, at many companies in the US, a person could be fired, just for seeing the pictures on xstreet on their work computer
* [20:36] Lane Luke: yes, well I was going to reference the US thing, but hesitated lol
* [20:36] Roxy Daguerre: :) reallY?
* [20:36] Alesia Schumann: That is normal. We all have bosses to deal with.
* [20:36] ELQ Homewood: I'm just wondering what the problem is with having ads which fit with a PG rated webpage, no matter if the product is sexual or not..take skins for example..do people actually buy skins off XStreet, or do they get the slurl and go see the actual skin inworld first?
* [20:36] Casper Priestman: so you would need someone monitoring submitted content if they requested a worksafe rating?
* [20:36] Ann Otoole: well not everyone wants to peruse a world of strip bars anyway
* [20:36] Lane Luke: so it comes down to cultures driving it
* [20:36] Pink Linden: so, we don't want to cater only to companies or to universities....but how do we make them feel more welcome?
* [20:37] Pink Linden: and how do we do that in a way that continues to welcome legitimate adult content as well?
* [20:37] Lane Luke: hmm well I thought people came to sl to do teh sex anyway
* [20:37] Colossus Linden: ELQ, I'm sure there is a mix. For every category, we drive a lot of in-world sales
* [20:37] ELQ Homewood: lol
* [20:37] Pink Linden: Lane, and I'm sure those university students will discover the adult content....LOL
* [20:37] Roxy Daguerre: but when that big arse red WARNING will robinson . you have tripped into XXX land because you are looking up skins
* [20:37] Lane Luke: you bet they will! lol
* [20:37] Colossus Linden: Sometimes Pink has a way with words :)
* [20:37] Pink Linden: right Roxy, that's right
* [20:38] Lane Luke: I managed to ;-)
* [20:38] Roxy Daguerre: that is like um making them warm and fuzzy about Xstreet huh?
* [20:38] Ann Otoole: make them use the 1.23 viewer code so they can filter out what would cause problems and have the same options for excluding such content on xstreet. problem is people adamantly refuse to abide by the policies to date to the point of some appear to be baiting LL.
* [20:38] ELQ Homewood: I was just wondering, because consider RL billboards..you see ads for strip clubs and everything else on those things, but the ad itself isn't above a pg rating
* [20:38] Pink Linden: notes Ann's points
* [20:38] Lane Luke: nods
* [20:38] Ann Otoole: and with one new product listing per minute how can LL police xstreet?
* [20:39] Colossus Linden: True ELQ, but you also can't buy a strip club from that billboard
* [20:39] Roxy Daguerre: show that kind of banner ad only on the xxx side and everything else gets normal rating
* [20:39] Frosty Insoo: Which culture are we focusing on.. or is LL focusing on.. I'm very confused by all the changes.. who is the market now?
* [20:39] Colossus Linden: This brings us to project #1, updating the Adult Policy for Xstreet
* [20:39] Roxy Daguerre: lol frosty
* [20:40] Lane Luke: hehe
* [20:40] Lane Luke: the culture of sin!
* [20:40] Ann Otoole: lol @ rated banner ads. sounds easy on the surface but the coders will probably groan.
* [20:40] Colossus Linden: As currently written, it calls out the content of the listing (images & text), but doesn't specify much about the item the listing is advertising
* [20:40] Frosty Insoo: Europeans are not so uptight
* [20:40] Pink Linden: Frosty.....it's a balancing act. we want to welcome newcomers while not losing sight of the values that got us to this place.
* [20:40] Roxy Daguerre: i thought the culture we were interested in was the one where people reach into their wallets and pull out a credit card to spend cash on virtual bits of frip frap?
* [20:40] Myyst Jewell: I have a question? and forgive me i am more of a shopper i have very limited items on SLX
* [20:40] Colossus Linden: What do folks think of adding that to the policy? If the item being sold is an adult item (say a sex bed) then the listing is adult?
* [20:41] Alesia Schumann: Might sound logical
* [20:41] Dartagan Shepherd: I think clarifying types of items could go a long way
* [20:41] Colossus Linden: Sure Myyst. shoot.
* [20:42] Ann Otoole: if we can search for adult only? oh yes people would love to filter out all the stuff they are not looking for.
* [20:42] Myyst Jewell: but to me SLX is sort of like shopping on ebay and they do a great job of keeping adult stuff seperate, so how do they do it ? and why can't we?
* [20:42] Colossus Linden: Someone said they made wrote scripts earlier on
* [20:42] Roxy Daguerre: it looks like we are catering to the at work slacker who is afraid his boss is gonna fire him for searching on a virtual goods store?
* [20:42] Colossus Linden: I could see that scripts or scripted items could be most affected by adding those terms to our Adult Policy
* [20:42] Colossus Linden: thoughts?
* [20:42] Pink Linden: actually adult content on ebay quietly disappeared not long ago
* [20:42] Lane Luke: good heavens
* [20:42] ELQ Homewood: it could, I can agree with that..lots of items can be used in both adult and non-adult ways, I'm the scripter, and yes, it would affect scripters
* [20:42] Pink Linden: they had buried it deep in the "misc" category
* [20:42] Lane Luke: you mean like a mlp script becomes an adult item?
* [20:43] ELQ Homewood: right, and that can be a problem
* [20:43] Lane Luke: never thought of that :(
* [20:43] Colossus Linden: Roxy, the preference is an optimal shopping experience for all shoppers
* [20:43] Colossus Linden: So, the shopper that doesn't want to see items that have to do with sex or violence doesn't have to
* [20:43] ELQ Homewood: anything that uses scripts to deliver animations can be used in many ways, adult and non-adult
* [20:43] Ann Otoole: are you going to add a content report option for stuff listed in pg or mature that should be in adult? like a "grinding pelvis cuddle hud"?
* [20:43] Pink Linden: Roxy, in my example, a professor might ask his students to do a homework project that involved seeking out items
* [20:43] Colossus Linden: meanwhile, the person who does can find exactly what he or she wants, and hopefully, view solely adult items if he or she wants
* [20:43] Roxy Daguerre: but a kissy face hud shouldn't be adult
* [20:43] Lane Luke: if that's the case, then separating the PG from the mature/adult seems logical
* [20:43] Pink Linden: and if those items were offensive, a professor could be fired.
* [20:44] Frosty Insoo: Oh boy.. this is going to be several meetings
* [20:44] Ann Otoole: lol zindra move all over
* [20:44] Pink Linden: that's right Frosty.....we did warn you. ;)
* [20:44] Colossus Linden: what is an "mlp" script?
* [20:44] Lane Luke: multi love pose
* [20:44] ELQ Homewood: well, there are ways around that. A script is a script, and it's the writing of the ad which would make it adult or not adult
* [20:44] Sin Toshi: I agree Lane...We should try for a absolutely Safe For Work and everything else
* [20:44] Lane Luke: sex beds
* [20:44] Pink Linden: I love my job. MLPs FTW!
* [20:44] Lane Luke: doesn't have to be used for sex anims, but generally is
* [20:44] Lane Luke: hahaha
* [20:45] Colossus Linden: ELQ, I don't think we'd be trying to target things that "could in some random way" be adult, but rather things that are "intended for adult use"
* [20:45] Roxy Daguerre: safe for work....hmmmm, a new classification
* [20:45] Lane Luke: if sfw is really that big of an issue for many people, it seems logical to me
* [20:45] Colossus Linden: obviously, defining that will not be an easy task.
* [20:45] Casper Priestman: would any proposed changes affect searchability say from Google, as it is now anything is searchable
* [20:45] Ann Otoole: mlp is that annoying sex menu on chairs, couches, beds, rocks, trees, thing on ground, whatever. and is why i can't have my nice fainting couch in my store because it is no mod and has mlp in it even though it is disabled and i put a sleep pose ball on it.
* [20:45] Sin Toshi: separating kinda sexy from super sexy from wildly sexy will end up with too many categories and items getting completely hidden because they are categorized in ways consumers don't expect
* [20:45] Frosty Insoo: Safe for Work.. no Porn, no skin, no distractions
* [20:46] Pink Linden: Casper, it's our goal that it wouldn't be an issue, though it will be harder work
* [20:46] Roxy Daguerre: adult vs pg , von trapp family vs the girls next door (hugh hefner's peeps) crowd
* [20:46] Pink Linden: but you're right, once you put content behind a login, the spiders get cranky
* [20:46] Colossus Linden: Ann, I would think that users would be able to report bad classifications.
* [20:46] Pink Linden: what do folks think of the flagging system on craig's list
* [20:46] Pink Linden: if you have experience there
* [20:47] Lane Luke: can't comment on craigslist
* [20:47] Ann Otoole: lol it is funny to read the people posting sccam alerts on craigslist. as in almost every job ad is a phishing operation.
* [20:47] ELQ Homewood: been there but I've never flagged anything, so couldn't say
* [20:47] Roxy Daguerre: slightly sexy to no holds barred blush the next morning can't exactly look you in the eye sexy
* [20:47] Pink Linden: to walk of shame sexy?
* [20:48] Roxy Daguerre: lol
* [20:48] Sin Toshi: :)
* [20:48] ELQ Homewood: I like the sfw thing, honestly, it makes sense
* [20:48] Lane Luke: I knew sfw was an issue for some, but didn't realize it was that big of an issue
* [20:48] Frosty Insoo: To address the challenge.. WHAT is Safe for Work?
* [20:49] Frosty Insoo: Definitions...
* [20:49] Sin Toshi: create a sanitized safe for educators/corporate types/and reporters
* [20:49] Roxy Daguerre: think catalogs
* [20:49] ELQ Homewood: it can be, depends..not for me, but I have run into people with those issues
* [20:49] Roxy Daguerre: Spiegel
* [20:49] Ann Otoole: safe for work depends on the company. if you use the Disney rules well you would be safe.
* [20:49] Sin Toshi: then a version for everyone else that can handle risque to wild
* [20:49] Casper Priestman: I think flagging opens up the possibility of abuse the way Craigslist has it, if the flag just sent a notification for the item to be reviewed that would be ok
* [20:49] Lane Luke: victoria secret?
* [20:49] Roxy Daguerre: Eddie Bauer
* [20:49] Pink Linden: oh I hope we're more fashionable than Spiegel
* [20:49] ELQ Homewood: lol
* [20:49] Pink Linden: with apologies to all Spiegel employees in the room
* [20:49] Lane Luke: hehe
* [20:49] Roxy Daguerre: stuff that has dickeys and long johns
* [20:49] Colossus Linden: ummm, Frosty, it is not the girl in the skirt mooning everyone :p
* [20:49] Colossus Linden: sorry, I had to.
* [20:50] Frosty Insoo: =P
* [20:50] Lane Luke: lol
* [20:50] Frosty Insoo: If you ever looked I'm not the Girl mooning
* [20:50] Colossus Linden: Casper, how is it abused on Craigslist?
* [20:50] ELQ Homewood: that's the thing though, many fashion ads and items would definitely not be adult, but may still not be sfw
* [20:51] Casper Priestman: competitors with similar objects or services trying to elminate the competition flag the items repetitively
* [20:51] Pink Linden: right. ELQ I think the main thing is if we can categorize it also that will help
* [20:51] ELQ Homewood: hey, that girl in/out of the skirt bothered me for this very reason actually..how's stuff like that end up on the dashboard anyway lol
* [20:51] Roxy Daguerre: victoria's secret commercials or calvin klein fragrance ads are on prime time tv
* [20:51] Pink Linden: as in : stay out of the lingerie category if you don't want to see panties
* [20:51] Roxy Daguerre: lol PINK
* [20:51] Frosty Insoo: listens
* [20:52] Colossus Linden: Just a time check. We've got about 8 minutes left
* [20:52] Myyst Jewell: well, i think the problem starts with how things are listed, i searched for halloween items in the promotion - and say way more than i was interested in seeing at the time
* [20:52] Lane Luke: I guess flagging is different from reporting? is flagging kind of a cumulative thing? if enough people flag it - it gets pulled or moved?
* [20:52] Frosty Insoo: raises a hand
* [20:52] Casper Priestman: LoL..was that the trick or the treat
* [20:52] Colossus Linden: Yes Frosty?
* [20:52] Pink Linden: understood Myyst....part of us being able to manage it is having rules in place the team can follow
* [20:53] Myyst Jewell: that was a trick for sure :P cause it hit my ewww button big time
* [20:53] Myyst Jewell: lol
* [20:53] Pink Linden: you're all still living with the rules we inherited when we purchased the company.
* [20:53] Lane Luke: yep
* [20:53] Sin Toshi: my selfish intention here is to try to slow the marginilization of "adult" content. If we approach it as PG vs everything else...rather than pg/mature vs adult ...then we can actually end up with a "clean" face for the public and a more open atmosphere for people who want it
* [20:53] Pink Linden: that's an interesting point Sin
* [20:54] Frosty Insoo: If you want "Safe for Work" and you are including the Bible Belt.. take no offence.. that eliminates all Skin, genitalia, and viloence
* [20:54] Lane Luke: agreed Sin
* [20:54] Dartagan Shepherd: if I could revert back to the broader situation, I would definately sanitize as much as possible since we need as many customers as possible. To address your example Pink ... professor by day, who knows what by night? So perhaps strengthen the adult with strong marketing in non offensive way "SL After Dark" promotions and such. HBO can pull off both sides of the fence
* [20:54] Lane Luke: ooooo SL AFter Dark - I likey :))
* [20:54] Casper Priestman: I agree Frosty, that would be my definition of SFW
* [20:54] Roxy Daguerre: make a button that people can readily get to the "sin" stuff more easily and not make people feel like criminals for trying to buy a light saber or a pair of bloomers
* [20:55] Lane Luke: basically any reference to sex or the human body
* [20:55] Pink Linden: after dark. nice
* [20:55] Pink Linden: good reminder on that Dartagan
* [20:55] Pink Linden: that's in the spirit
* [20:55] Pink Linden: right Roxy
* [20:55] Roxy Daguerre: lol Cinemax, good idea
* [20:55] Pink Linden: skinimax
* [20:55] Lane Luke: there is a school here who used to have "after dark" classes for their adult stuff
* [20:56] Lane Luke: I like that a lot Dartagan
* [20:56] ELQ Homewood: that's not a bad notion. I mean, extra marketing for that side of the site would help to lower the level of ostracization
* [20:56] Lane Luke: exactly
* [20:56] Casper Priestman: it's inviting and hip...yet reserved..and makes for great marketing for the Lab
* [20:56] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Dr Ruth
* [20:56] Pink Linden: what happens in Second Life stays in Second Life
* [20:56] Pink Linden: ;)
* [20:57] Roxy Daguerre: me personally don't like that i have to find shapes on the sin station
* [20:57] Sin Toshi: which just goes to show you how much stigma that side carries
* [20:57] Pink Linden: Roxy finding a solution for skins is critical
* [20:57] Lane Luke: does anyone really buy shapes and skin off the website?
* [20:57] Sin Toshi: the red warning on every page does nothing to make people feel more comfortable shopping on the uncensored side
* [20:57] Lane Luke: I can't imagine doing that
* [20:57] Roxy Daguerre: yep they do
* [20:57] Pink Linden: skins are an important part of SL and we agree that we need to find a way to help those creators.
* [20:57] Roxy Daguerre: they go to the slurl but they shop on line
* [20:58] Roxy Daguerre: till they can get in world
* [20:58] Roxy Daguerre: you knoW/
* [20:58] Roxy Daguerre: ?
* [20:58] hibit Spad: what I see though is that whatever solution you find on xstreet for skins is going to eventually become the solution for inworld
* [20:58] Lane Luke: mmhmm
* [20:58] ELQ Homewood: maybe give a skin marketer and others in that type of category the option of 2 ads for one product, one which is sfw and one which isn't
* [20:58] Roxy Daguerre: or require us ot put censorship marks on our skins
* [20:58] Roxy Daguerre: we have no problem with that
* [20:59] Roxy Daguerre: but get it out of the toilet please
* [20:59] Pink Linden: we also see a lot of skin demos on xstreet sl
* [20:59] Roxy Daguerre: yes demos that they have to be inworld to actualy use
* [20:59] Pink Linden: Roxy we hear you loud and clear
* [20:59] Roxy Daguerre: which hopeful is off work hours
* [20:59] Colossus Linden: How much does a good skin go for these days?
* [20:59] Lane Luke: lol
* [20:59] Pink Linden: these office hours are how we're going to get this fixed.
* [20:59] Lane Luke: 1,000L plus
* [20:59] Roxy Daguerre: 700L on up
* [21:00] Lane Luke: average
* [21:00] Myyst Jewell: 1600
* [21:00] Roxy Daguerre: yeah what she said
* [21:00] hibit Spad: the most expensive skins are like 5000 I believe
* [21:00] Casper Priestman: I think part of the problem with skin ads being acceptable to the general public is ..the presentation...maybe a standardized pose that doesn't suggest sexuality...I know...I could be shot for suggesting that :)
* [21:00] Myyst Jewell: for a good one
* [21:00] Myyst Jewell: what about drop downs for the more suggestive views
* [21:00] Colossus Linden: a couple of suggestions earlier which we'd love your thoughts on
* [21:01] ELQ Homewood: well, a good skin ad which is sfw could be a dressed model..nothing wrong with showing what a skin looks like when clothed
* [21:01] Roxy Daguerre: well honestly we need to destigmatize the adult section
* [21:01] Roxy Daguerre: period
* [21:01] Colossus Linden: 1. adult/uncensored images which are only shown if the user is viewing adult.
* [21:01] Colossus Linden: those would be along with censored images always shown
* [21:01] Colossus Linden: 2. LL provides a set of "minimum coverage" under garments which a merchant could place over a skin.
* [21:02] Ann Otoole: what in the world is so hard about a layeer added with some black circles over nipples and crotch?
* [21:02] Ann Otoole: or your store logo?
* [21:02] ELQ Homewood: lol
* [21:02] ELQ Homewood: sorry, ann, that was a neat visual I got
* [21:03] Colossus Linden: I was actually thining "George Bush's face"
* [21:03] Roxy Daguerre: lol standardized bikini within SFW limits
* [21:03] Casper Priestman: if you could template the skin submission..you could overlay generic covering bits depending on the login
* [21:03] Roxy Daguerre: designed by LL cool beans
* [21:03] Ann Otoole: i just spen hours making a little logo for the sides of these shoes. if i was selling skins and needed to PG that is what i would use.
* [21:03] Pink Linden: LOL colossus
* [21:03] Lane Luke: ummm no Colossus
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: Fine Lane
* [21:04] Lane Luke: hehe
* [21:04] ELQ Homewood: his face is deifintely not sfw
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: Well, it's 9:04 pm
* [21:04] Ann Otoole: my pg skins have the "this is sparta king leonidas meme picture
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: and I'm still at the office
* [21:04] Lane Luke: okay
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
* [21:04] Lane Luke: it's after dark though so you're okay
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: and to those of you who made it to 2 or even all 3 sessions today, awesome (gold star)
* [21:04] Pink Linden: you guys...this was one of the best office hours ever
* [21:04] Pink Linden: so productive and collaborative
* [21:04] Pink Linden: thank you
* [21:04] Roxy Daguerre: after dark rating sounds better than adult
* [21:04] Colossus Linden: We really appreciate the help and feedback
* [21:05] Pink Linden: did you find the format helpful?
* [21:05] Lane Luke: very interesting :) thanks all
* [21:05] Roxy Daguerre: safe for work and after dark
* [21:05] Sin Toshi: thanks for all the prep and organizing ...it's been very helpful
* [21:05] Pink Linden: should we change anything in our format?
* [21:05] Casper Priestman: thank you Colossus, Pink, and Blue
* [21:05] Lane Luke: I really like the formats from the occasions I've come to these meetings
* [21:05] Colossus Linden: Yes, feedback on how to make sessions more productive is always helpful
* [21:05] Ann Otoole: what? an agenda? and nobody demanding the floor all hour long? yes it works
* [21:05] Frosty Insoo: Be well all.. I have to dash.. Work..
* [21:06] Pink Linden: have a good work day or night Frosty
* [21:06] Lane Luke: although in this case, I would have liked to know a little more in advance - I would have found that helpful
* [21:06] Myyst Jewell: I have to go also
* [21:06] Pink Linden: the next office hours are already posted!
* [21:06] Pink Linden: December 15th
* [21:06] Pink Linden: so.....no excuses Lane!
* [21:06] Lane Luke: hehe no excuses
* [21:06] Colossus Linden: Thanks all. Night.
*