WindLight/Office Hours/2008-02-28

Pastrami Linden: hey all
Spaceman Opus: heya Pastrami
Mastorian Kingsford: hi
George Linden is Offline
Bridie Linden is Offline
Pastrami Linden: im me questions!
Michael Linden is Offline
Mastorian Kingsford: weird why doesnt fog ratio work in new wl mines locked at 4.0
Pygar Bu: Hi! Sis!
Marianne McCann: Hiya
Pastrami Linden: [13:08] Spaceman Opus: I have a strange bug that generally happens in more crowded/laggy areas. Basically, my whole SL screen becomes unusable when camming around, and I have to guess at a camera angle to get out of it.
BigPapi Linden is Online
Pastrami Linden: Spaceman I believe that is known about
Pastrami Linden: panning issues, etc.
Pastrami Linden: [13:09] Mastorian Kingsford: why is fog ratio shaded and locked at 4.0 in new wl
BigPapi Linden: Mastorian: Because it has been depracated by WL
Mastorian Kingsford: well with it stuck now and the always water around me view from a hight my frame rates are bad
Bec Sadofsky: So the panning will be on the fix it list?
Pastrami Linden: Bec, yes
Bec Sadofsky: good hate getting stuck
Pygar Bu: /yay!
Bec Sadofsky: specially in class
Jingwa Nyanda: hello
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian
Pastrami Linden: what graphics setting are you at?
Aki Shichiroji: ...
Pastrami Linden: well, while you check
Pastrami Linden: [13:10] Elysium Eilde: hi, not sure how this works, never been before but...is anything being done to address the snapshot issues? I can not take a photo in WL at a custom size without crashing, as a professional photogrpaher, its hurting my business [13:11] Elysium Eilde: and i have attempted it on multiple Mac systems
Mastorian Kingsford: before i was at 129 distance and mediums settings with fog at 2.5 and wl was good frame rate now im at 64 seeing water everywhere out from me maybe 200 feet and bad framerates
Jeremy Linden: Jingwa, I'm going to ask you once not to rez those here.
Spaceman Opus: ty Jeremy
Pastrami Linden: ELysium, we are aware of snapshot issues-
Jingwa Nyanda: sorry
Pastrami Linden: and more specifically,
Pastrami Linden: in the months ahead we will be targeting only crashes
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian, try setting to Low and tell me if you can use fog distance ratio again
Rose Linden is Online
Elysium Eilde: it actually less of a crash than, SL hangs for so long it gets disconnected from the grid
Mastorian Kingsford: wl puts water all around me im always on island even at 256 range
Zen Linden is Online
Carl Omlet: Elysium Eilde: It may be related to the video memory problem with macs. How much video memory did the macs have?
Joshua Linden is Offline
BigPapi Linden: Mastorian, those figures mean nothing to me without your graphics settins and hardware settings.
BigPapi Linden: What are they?
Elysium Eilde: 512 video memory
Elysium Eilde: but i did not have this trouble a few versions ago
Runitai Linden is Online
Mastorian Kingsford: im at 256 megs of video ram and same setup from the im i sent you last time i showed you the water view
Carl Omlet: Elysium: 512mb ram, or 512mb vram?
Elysium Eilde: vram
Mastorian Kingsford: right now im seeing water full 360 as my distant view
Mastorian Kingsford: i have 2 gigs of ram and 256 of vram
Mastorian Kingsford: on xp x64 system not mac
BigPapi Linden: What's your graphics card? What do you have your graphics settings set to?
Mastorian Kingsford: ati 1250
Mastorian Kingsford: i can use up to 600 vram pulled from regular ram
Elysium Eilde: RadeonX1900 for me, not sure who that was directed at
BigPapi Linden: Yeah, but that's not a card that's very strong on shaders.
Pastrami Linden: we're on Mastorian now
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian,
Elysium Eilde: ok i guess i just have to wait for a fix on your end then, ty
Pastrami Linden: is whatever behavior you're seeing different from the last release?
Mastorian Kingsford: for somereason wl makes the fog water so i always have a beautiful full 360 view of ocean lmao
BigPapi Linden: yeah, sorry, the card not being good for shaders was meant for Mastorian, not Elysium.
Mastorian Kingsford: its not shaders
Hamilton Linden is Online
Pastrami Linden: Mastorian try this
BigPapi Linden: Are you on low?
Pastrami Linden: set you rgraphics to low
Mastorian Kingsford: medioum
Mastorian Kingsford: medium
Mastorian Kingsford: was high setings before this windlight
BigPapi Linden: Try low
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
Free to Fly: All Go
Mastorian Kingsford: now i have uglay 360 ocean before i had sparkling water haha
Pastrami Linden: does your fog ratio work now?
Pastrami Linden: can you lower it to 0.5
Mastorian Kingsford: yeah
Pastrami Linden: but that doesn't solve your problem.....
Mastorian Kingsford: whats the deal with water always around does it use the water for fog ration or ground fog replacement
Pastrami Linden: sorry, we may need a screenshot
Mastorian Kingsford: that i can do
BigPapi Linden: Yeah, sorry. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Mastorian Kingsford: the views
Mastorian Kingsford: now its aways a ocean view
Pastrami Linden: so you're saying your terrain is cutting off too soon?
Jeremy Linden is Offline
BigPapi Linden: Or that before the water didn't go as far.
Jeremy Linden is Online
Steve Linden is Online
Dahlia Trimble: location
Mastorian Kingsford: im saying booth regular client and dazele i see land the real view from where im standing , in all the wl clients i see ocean even when im on a city sim standing in middle of city
Pastrami Linden: what's your draw distance in each?
Runitai Linden: WL puts ocean out to the horizon regardless of what region is next door
Zen Linden is Online
Zen Linden is Offline
Runitai Linden: with atmospheric shaders on, the ground plane is not drawn
Steve Linden is Offline
Pastrami Linden: ahh
Mastorian Kingsford: sorry client crashed and database is loading slow
BigPapi Linden is Offline
Couples MultiAnimator v2d whispers: * Abranimations Couples Animator Ready...
Mastorian Kingsford: i think i need dazzle back lol
Pastrami Linden: Runitai, do we expect to change this or will this be new behavior?
Runitai Linden: er? what?
BigPapi Linden is Online
Mastorian Kingsford: thats the pic thats refusing to load from invintory
norritt Xi: Hi everyone
Jeremy Linden: I think it's something on our end, Mastorian. My attachments aren't loading either.
Pastrami Linden: the water plans vs. ground plane out to the horizon
Pastrami Linden: ^plane
Aki Shichiroji: oog.
Aki Shichiroji: same here.
Runitai Linden: I don't expect to start drawing the ground plane with atmospheric shaders on, no
Mastorian Kingsford: all i can say is every 250 feet out from where im standing i see water
norritt Xi: Jeremy: I guess grid / asset routing is a mess again, there are nasty packet loss spikes
Mastorian Kingsford: its only in wl clients
Runitai Linden: water out to the horizon is by design
Mastorian Kingsford: even on a main land sim
Runitai Linden: it's the only way to keep gaps from appearing in the horizon
Runitai Linden: later we'll render terrain out to the horizon, too :-p
Bec Sadofsky: like how much later?
Mastorian Kingsford: my house sits on hill i look off baclcony im on island trouble is im on a snow mountain sim
Runitai Linden: more than six months out, less than 2 years
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Pastrami Linden: [13:14] Dahlia Trimble: hi, I'm still having a problem with VWR-3241. could you talk about that one during this meeting?
Dahlia Trimble: thats the particle density one
Dahlia Trimble: it acts like particles that arent visible count against the total particle count
Sidewinder Linden is Offline
Dahlia Trimble: so if there are particles from far away that arent visible, they take precidence over particles from sources nearby and in the viewport
Runitai Linden: the dev who was working on that isn't here...
Zero Linden is Online
Dahlia Trimble: the other viewers dont have that problem
Michael Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: I'm pretty sure that bug came in with an open source patch
Summer Seale: hi norritt =)
Runitai Linden: which was supposed to do the opposite, I'll follow up with whoever was working on it
norritt Xi: hi Summer =)
Dahlia Trimble: this recent series of windlight viewers is the first time I saw it
Dahlia Trimble: thanks :)
Colossus Linden is Online
Pastrami Linden: Runitai, Bao was on that internally
Dahlia Trimble: that name sounds familiar
Pastrami Linden: [13:30] Summer Seale: if we add hot mustard to pastrami, will it glow in windlight? =)
Pastrami Linden: the soul crushing truth
Pastrami Linden: the agonizing admittance
Marianne McCann giggles
norritt Xi: There is no spoon so we cant do that
Pastrami Linden: queue is empty
Liana Linden is Online
Dahlia Trimble: I dont know if there is a jira, but my frame rate goes down if my inventory window is open
Dahlia Trimble: or some groups
Dahlia Trimble: sometimes down to 1 fps
Dahlia Trimble: I think the other viewers do that too
esf123 Sodwind is Online
Runitai Linden: do you have a lot of folders open?
Hamilton Linden is Offline
Dahlia Trimble: dont think so
Dahlia Trimble: I have a big inventory
Pastrami Linden: I know there are known issues re: overhead of drawing UI elements
Pastrami Linden: dey be slow
Runitai Linden: yeah, but not 1fps slow
Dahlia Trimble: some groups are worse than others... fashion consolidated is really bad
Summer Seale: lol yes
Dahlia Trimble: I normally have 15 fps or better
Spaceman Opus: Live Music Enthisiasts gets like that too, trying to send a notice out
Pastrami Linden: I would jirafy
Runitai Linden: you can see what's taking time by looking at fast timers
Runitai Linden: client->consoles->fast timers
Dahlia Trimble: ykes... it would take me a while to decifer that graph
Bec Sadofsky: hard to read with a clear back
Runitai Linden: just look for the big bar
Dahlia Trimble: they are all pretty even
Dahlia Trimble: mostly green
Runitai Linden: open up render
Spaceman Opus: for Live Music Enthusiasts, it looks like Decode msgs and Process Msgs get the brunt if ut
Runitai Linden: by clicking on it on the left
Mastorian Kingsford: i suspect the wl prgramers in dark cubes and dream of ocean views lol since they make wl always have ocean views of water ripples with sun reflections lmao makes me always on island kinda lmae when every sim is ocean view lol
Runitai Linden: I live on a peninsula
Dahlia Trimble: lots of pretty colors lol
BigPapi Linden: I live on an airship perpetually hovering over the Pacific myself.
BigPapi Linden: Sorta like:
Summer Seale: lol
Summer Seale: there he goes again =)
Pastrami Linden: alright, so we gettingn anywhere with this UI issue or shouldwe move on?
Zen Linden: can't repro here, what hardware?
Dahlia Trimble: 8600M
BigPapi Linden: MacBook Pro?
Dahlia Trimble: hp laptop
Dahlia Trimble: 2 ghz intel dual core
Runitai Linden: what was the clever UI debug setting?
Dahlia Trimble: I dont have a clever ui debug setting
BigPapi Linden: renderUseCleverUI?
BigPapi Linden: yup
Runitai Linden: that's what I thought
Runitai Linden: not coming up in this build
Bao Linden is Online
Dahlia Trimble: false
BigPapi Linden: try setting it to true
Sidewinder Linden is Online
Dahlia Trimble: seems to help so far :)
Runitai Linden: I win!
Pastrami Linden: lol
Summer Seale: lol
Pastrami Linden: love for Runitai
Summer Seale: \o/
Dahlia Trimble: lol if it lets me into the fashcon group and I still have a decent frame rate, then you would be a hero :D
BigPapi Linden: UI just got PWN3D!!!
Hamilton Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: er, if it's a slow frame rate when IM'ing a group, that's a different bug
Jill Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: which has been fixed internally
Dahlia Trimble: seems to be working :)
Michael Linden is Offline
BigPapi Linden: Maybe it's time to re-evaluate defaulting that to true across the board
Pastrami Linden: alright everyone all that bad stuff I say about Runitai in other office hours is TOTALLY false
Mastorian Kingsford: like to see a road lol
Dahlia Trimble giggles
Dahlia Trimble: thanks ;)
BigPapi Linden: lolz
Mastorian Kingsford: thats the view i see behind the blechs
Pastrami Linden: [13:41] Spaceman Opus: is the report at Massively correct that a Windlight Release Candidate is days away?
Pastrami Linden: it is true
Aki Shichiroji: wooot
Aki Shichiroji: Congrats :D
Marianne McCann: YAY!
Summer Seale: double \o/
Spaceman Opus: yay!
Pygar Bu: yay!
Pygar Bu smiles big
Summer Seale: awesome =)
Dahlia Trimble: w00t! :D
Pastrami Linden: [13:42] Marianne McCann: (I still need to JIRA this, but as the queue is empty). On my 20" iMac, I sometimes see flickering" Linden trees, where they go into a red, negative image, or even change to a different Linden tree texture. Has anyone seen anything like this?
Jill Linden is Offline
Summer Seale: i haven't seen anything like that
Betsy Linden is Online
Sabin Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: that's.... terrible
Marianne McCann: I'll have it on the JIRA after I get home today
Summer Seale: i use a mac too sometimes but not at highest settings. i'll try it out later
Pastrami Linden: well, trees will die eventually
Marianne McCann: Ya, Usually windlight high
Pastrami Linden: these kinds at least
Summer Seale: oh you're replacing trees?
Marianne McCann: Pastrami - there will be much rejoicing on my part (speedtree?)
Michael Linden is Online
Pastrami Linden: I know, I know
Pastrami Linden: [13:43] Aki Shichiroji: have there been any known changes to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3485 as of this point?
Hamilton Linden is Offline
Aki Shichiroji: That's the window resize system freeze bug for Macs
Hamilton Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: nope
Soft Linden is Online
Glenn Linden is Online
Runitai Linden: I'll make that one a priority
Aki Shichiroji: Thanks
Zen Linden: Will apple still update drivers on tiger?
Runitai Linden: nope
Benjamin Linden is Online
Jack666 Carter: I thought so, Zen... until 10.6...
norritt Xi: There is also a freezing bug on PCs but not related to resizing the viewer window
Zen Linden: g'luck :)
Bao Linden is Offline
Zen Linden: norritt: this on an NVIDIA 8800?
norritt Xi: Yes
Runitai Linden: on teleport?
Aki Shichiroji: mm. my PC is doing that too... not sure if it's on TPs though.
Zen Linden HATES that he can't repro this. May have to add some debugging info
Green Linden is Offline
Pastrami Linden: [13:47] norritt Xi: Is there any scheduled date fot the next WL update release? [13:48] norritt Xi: for even
Pastrami Linden: soon, will be RC
Pastrami Linden: alright, time is winding down
norritt Xi: I didn't figure any constant reason out yet though tried to provide as much detail as possible. The problem is that the I can't do any research due to the complete system freezing. In many cases SL doesn't even realize the crash
norritt Xi: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5089
Morpheus Linden is Offline
Runitai Linden: if this is the same bug torley was epxeriencing, turning off occlusion culling is a workaround
George Linden is Online
Zen Linden: yep
norritt Xi: Could also have to do with the memory leak, trying to throw anything I can find about that into your direction
Pastrami Linden: Runitai,
Pastrami Linden: and BigPapi
Pastrami Linden: this one look like any of the internals to you?
Pastrami Linden: well, and Zen too
Runitai Linden: yup, looks just like torley's
Zen Linden: yeah, i think it's the TOrley freeze
Runitai Linden: 8800GTX on XP SP 2
Zen Linden: that doesn't happen on our 8800GTX on XP SP 2 in the boston office
Runitai Linden: I'll, uhh, have to get an 8800GTX for home to repro it XD
Zen Linden: hey, i'm putting an order in
Zen Linden: :)
norritt Xi: HA! Hahahaha! Heeheehee! Hee-heeee!
Pygar Bu smiles
BigPapi Linden: I'll put an order in to ummmm, try and repro it as well. yeah. That's it.
norritt Xi: I have to sign up as Linden to if I get the high end gfx cards for home ;)
Mastorian Kingsford: i can play any game on market lol with 40 frams at least on high setings
Qarl Linden is Online
Summer Seale: i have to sign up as a linden to get a freezing bug named after me....
BigPapi Linden: not crysis. ;)
Marianne McCann giggles
norritt Xi: You could check the driver version in your Boston office, maybe its the latest detonator causing the problems and the boston system is not up to date
Jeremy Linden: No Jeremy bugs yet :-(
Brad Linden is Online
Zen Linden: same drivers as torleys
Mastorian Kingsford: its got lame spyware dont want it and yes i played demo
Rowan Linden is Online
Marianne McCann: (Is that as exciting as having a disease named after you?)
Summer Seale: lol
norritt Xi: Don't worry Jeremy, last time we learned though there are no Jermy bugs you are responsible for all existing bugs ;)
Zen Linden: norritt
Zen Linden: do you have anti-aliasing on?
norritt Xi: Yes 8xFSAA (not the quinquinux)
Zen Linden: i had it off last time I checked. I'll be sure to have it on next time
Mastorian Kingsford: im runing full clouds and a frigging ocen of ripples right now lol sun reflecting all over this surrounding ocean
Harmony Linden is Online
Sally Linden is Offline
Mastorian Kingsford: need a fishing pole
Frolic Mills is Offline
Mastorian Kingsford: lol
Runitai Linden: ok, that's time for me
norritt Xi: *nods* Zen if theres anything I can do, helping testing different settings trying to repro sth. lemme know. I'll gladly support you
Zen Linden: noritt: just try it without AA (yes i know it's ugly) but see if you still get it
Pastrami Linden: yep, we be out