Community Tools User Group/10-Mar-2011

Category:Community Tools User Group
== Transcript ==
[12:57]	:	lemme grab the agenda.
[12:57]	:	its a busy agenda
[12:57]	 	some chocolate
[12:57]	:	/me wonders where the bar is...
[12:58]	 	(zavarah.zabelin): /me listnes
[12:58]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[12:58]	:	feel free to add items--this is our time to help get your questions answered and learn more about what you're looking for re: community communications/tools.
[12:58]	:	:)
[12:58]	 	(zavarah.zabelin): Wher do i add theitemto be talked abnout
[12:58]	:	amanda before we start i have an off topic question that I hope you can answer or find the answer for me
[12:59]	:	hey!
[12:59]	:	lexie
[12:59]	:	while we are waiting, does anyone want an invite to the community tools group? send me a private IM and I'll add you.
[12:59]	:	jeremy
[12:59]	 	has pinged you.
[12:59]	:	sure cummere.
[12:59]	:	/me waves.
[12:59]	 	(torben.trautman): hi all
[12:59]	:	hey!
[12:59]	:	torb
[12:59]	:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[12:59]	:	Hey Jeremy
[12:59]	 	has pinged you.
[12:59]	:	Mari
[12:59]	:	What's up, Doc?
[13:00]	:	/me has always wanted to say that
[13:00]	:	you get my email
[13:00]	:	who shouldi send the SL rolelr derby association to to talk about trying to get an event sim donated by LL?
[13:00]	:	*roller
[13:00]	:	sorry--we can't donate sims anymore--except in very special circumstances.
[13:00]	:	ello
[13:00]	:	but, they are welcome to email business@lindenlab.com
[13:00]	:	and it goes into the sales queue
[13:00]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me mumbles something about High Hopes.
[13:01]	:	looks like we have a full house!
[13:01]	:	k thank you amanda
[13:01]	:	hey all.
[13:01]	:	shall we get started?
[13:01]	:	plese
[13:01]	:	please
[13:01]	:	fab.
[13:01]	:	sure
[13:01]	:	so, before we dive into the agenda, wanted to generally see what you think re: the new community platform, now that you've had some time to play around in it.
[13:01]	:	hmmm it won't let me log in
[13:01]	 	(arawn.spitteler): New Community Platform?
[13:02]	:	see last item on agenda amanda
[13:02]	:	keeps telling me I have the wrong password
[13:02]	:	community.secondlife.com
[13:02]	:	new blogs/forums, etc.
[13:02]	 	(torben.trautman): I really like some parts of it :)
[13:02]	:	Overall, I like. Still see a lot of the usualy issues. Spammers etc
[13:02]	:	hi folks
[13:02]	:	cummere--i see the agenda. thanks.
[13:02]	:	cool.
[13:03]	:	ok
[13:03]	:	yeah, spamming has been an issue.
[13:03]	:	the forums look good so far i see, but the wiki still is a mess
[13:03]	:	And some of the ol' dramas flare.
[13:03]	:	/me grins
[13:03]	 	(arawn.spitteler): http://community.secondlife.com with new stuff to obfuscate the old?
[13:03]	:	sorry jeremy, i know you put in a lot of time into that, but its true.
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	OK, bob...can you turn it off??
[13:03]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Flooding or Spamming?
[13:03]	 	it doesn't support a full "ignore this user" feature
[13:03]	:	can you turn that off please
[13:03]	:	thanks
[13:03]	 	(arawn.spitteler): stop
[13:03]	:	We're working on cleaning up the wiki, Youri.
[13:03]	:	thanks.
[13:03]	:	I can give you an update with some things we have updated since last week in the Community
[13:04]	:	yeah--oobscure--it doesn't have that feature.
[13:04]	:	go for it raymond.
[13:04]	:	parts of it need work, and the moderation gets a bit more sane... it would be really good
[13:04]	:	Created sub forums for: Music and Beta Grid
[13:04]	:	good to hear jeremy, make sure you add in a clear and understandable office hour calendar
[13:04]	 	has pinged you.
[13:04]	 	
[13:04]	:	budge up a bit lexie and susopiria
[13:04]	:	We also recreated the structure for Buy and Sell Land
[13:04]	:	I been begging for moderation for years
[13:04]	:	it's been hell to find out which oh's were when and where
[13:04]	:	Implemented this morning!
[13:04]	:	cool
[13:04]	 	
[13:04]	:	We increased the # of image uploads to 500
[13:04]	:	Youri, there is one: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Groups
[13:04]	:	heya raymond
[13:04]	:	Likes the tabbed interface..nice! :)
[13:04]	:	saw that raymond. thank you
[13:04]	:	Kudos has been implemented
[13:05]	:	Some of the light gray fonts replaced by darker gray fonts so it is easier to read. Still some work to do here.
[13:05]	 	
[13:05]	 	that!
[13:05]	:	( waves to lexie ^_^ )
[13:05]	 	(torben.trautman): yay I noticed the Kudos earlier :)
[13:05]	:	Tonight . . .
[13:05]	 	- SkyBeam (charlene.trudeau): Under 'Additional Links' one to the grid status page would be awesome
[13:05]	:	More changes
[13:05]	:	link colors in the body of Forums, Blogs, Answers ank KB will be green instead of black
[13:05]	 	(torben.trautman): *woot*
[13:06]	:	woot to that!
[13:06]	:	Also, we have made some updates to the copy within Community Help
[13:06]	:	/me does a happydance for green links.
[13:06]	:	Things we are currently looking into and scoping out:
[13:06]	:	and, today lexie also added a commerce (merchant) blog
[13:06]	 	
[13:06]	:	Here is a biggie:
[13:06]	:	Would like to see a single RSS feed to all Blogs...?
[13:06]	:	Replies show who is actually replied to
[13:06]	:	Oh, huzzah
[13:06]	:	ossm raymond!
[13:06]	:	YES - that's super
[13:06]	 	
[13:07]	:	/me agress with Danlie re: RSS
[13:07]	:	nice job
[13:07]	 	(torben.trautman): that is extremely appreciated
[13:07]	 	
[13:07]	:	So, this actually needs to be developed
[13:07]	:	and we are scoping it out with Lithium
[13:07]	:	Also, we are continuing to work on our Spam filters
[13:07]	 	
[13:07]	:	great
[13:07]	:	has order been fixed in answers? allot of people were finding that incredibly confusing
[13:07]	:	yep-we know it's been an issue.
[13:08]	:	Lexie - any update on the Answers ordering?
[13:08]	 	looking at it.
[13:08]	 	the kudos complicated things
[13:08]	:	k thank you...
[13:08]	:	Definitely on our plate!
[13:08]	:	Ok . . Smiley faces
[13:08]	:	/me still wants that mainland community space
[13:08]	:	or emoticns
[13:09]	:	emoticons
[13:09]	:	i think that was on oru list marianne.
[13:09]	:	kk
[13:09]	:	general mainland communmity forum.
[13:09]	:	We do have the ability to load in new ones.
[13:09]	 	it.
[13:09]	:	So, if you have any recommendations, we would love to check them out!
[13:09]	:	Raymond, any chance of getting common ones mapped to the images? Say :=_ triggering what is now :smileyhappy: or what not?
[13:09]	:	triggering, I mean
[13:09]	:	any progress on the request for an adult-only forum?
[13:10]	:	Oops, triggering my own gestures. ":-)"
[13:10]	:	yes, i have an update there from blondin this morning.
[13:10]	:	Marianne - not sure, but we can look into
[13:10]	:	re: adult.
[13:10]	:	Mew
[13:10]	:	>.> a one, a *whap* one, and a beating the dead horse one would be nice... >..>
[13:10]	:	we are going to do an adult private forum--for the adult land owners/business owners.
[13:10]	:	IMO, emoticons are superflous. Work on functionality first, please
[13:10]	:	thank god...
[13:10]	:	better to have those discussions as private. connect with him on that if you want in.
[13:10]	:	Makes some sense
[13:10]	:	residents will not have access?
[13:11]	:	There have also been a lot of threads about logon issues
[13:11]	 	old system there was a way to appeal a warning letter or suspension. I've seen nothing for Lithium nor do we get emails anymore, only PM's
[13:11]	:	no, unfortunately, a lot of what weould be discussed in an adult public forum would be against our community standards.
[13:11]	:	we just can't host that discussion publicly on the forums.
[13:11]	:	let's save moderation stuff for the end.
[13:11]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me wonders what's discussed in house
[13:11]	:	I have noted an odd glitch sometimes. Still trying to put together aJIRA on it. Sometimes, here on Mac/Safari, Clicking "reply" redirects me to the forum main, rather than opening the reply.
[13:12]	:	if all the big updates are done, then let's dive into the agenda.
[13:12]	:	But not 100% repeatable yet, so I've not finished a JIRA
[13:12]	:	Lithium works with OpenID. So, it allows you to use your SL.com logon and pw. However, being logged into SL.com does not automatically log you into community.sl.com
[13:12]	 	enabled everywhere? I see it works at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Texturing/Counteracting-an-overlay/m-p/739711 but not at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Inworld-Employment/Shi-Studio-Looking-for-Motivated-Experienced-Photographer/m-p/739651 - do you see the same?
[13:12]	:	its missing a step there raymond
[13:12]	:	Hey Stryker
[13:12]	:	/me waves
[13:12]	:	That being said, the Support Portal is tied more closely with the Lithium site
[13:12]	 	Answers, KB and Content creation
[13:13]	:	So, if you are logged into the Support Portal it will port you over
[13:13]	:	but, an issue we are looking into is . .. .
[13:14]	:	you still need to click the Sign In Link in the upper right hand corner of the site. And you will be automaticall logged in
[13:14]	:	This has caused some confusion and we are adding it to our backlog
[13:14]	:	yeah... same with my.secondlife.com theres a missing step there with the openid process
[13:14]	:	Oh . .
[13:15]	:	And there are threads indicating when you are logged off in the forums and then logon, you are bounced to the top of the Blog page
[13:15]	 	(torben.trautman): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3737
[13:15]	:	We are going to add this to the backlog as well. So, you will stay on the page you are viewing
[13:15]	 	(torben.trautman): created a jira about that
[13:15]	:	or when you click reply to answers or forums
[13:15]	:	yes
[13:16]	:	cool
[13:16]	 	a couple answers for questions on the agenda
[13:16]	:	Good
[13:16]	:	also if you click the link from an email to view an item you go to the blog page instead raymond
[13:16]	:	ok, thanks Cummere
[13:16]	 	a couple
[13:16]	:	kk, let's get back to agenda. :)
[13:16]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[13:17]	 	(torben.trautman): yes :)
[13:17]	 	(torben.trautman): /me blushes
[13:17]	:	torben had the first question re: ilocalized help.
[13:17]	:	anyone on the linden side want to jump in there?
[13:17]	 	looking at that. We "may" be able to make a role for translators. Noelle will have some updates for the translators pretty soon.
[13:17]	 	(arawn.spitteler): What's the URL for the Agenda; I'm luckily not on Viewer 2, atm?
[13:17]	:	translation first on i see
[13:17]	:	think that applies to me
[13:17]	 	
[13:18]	 	question on that
[13:18]	:	nope
[13:18]	 	
[13:18]	:	nnext item up for bid?
[13:18]	 	you know that there are already localized KBs
[13:18]	:	I was wondering about the same thing
[13:18]	 	(torben.trautman): yes, many of them I translated :)
[13:18]	 	
[13:18]	:	community guidelines that we're using are the ones on every page of the platform.
[13:18]	 	(torben.trautman): at least in german
[13:18]	 	
[13:18]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines
[13:19]	:	it just looks, sorry to say, that we got replaced by Google translator and similar tools which are far from accurate
[13:19]	:	these are the ones that moderators are using and that are relevant when you want to flag content that is potentially in violation.
[13:19]	:	it ratehr feels as well like a kick between the legs to put it lightly
[13:19]	 	not used any machine translation for KB articles. Can't speak to anything else
[13:19]	 	(torben.trautman): Amanda, the link on the community page goes to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Discussion_guidelines
[13:20]	:	those are the old ones.
[13:20]	:	new ones are in lithium the link above.
[13:20]	 	(torben.trautman): that is where the confusion comes from
[13:20]	 	be a translation meeting soon. Sorry it has been so quiet. Translators are not forgotten!
[13:20]	:	ah, rand, we should take those old ones down.
[13:20]	 	(torben.trautman): this is the link from lithium
[13:20]	 	the old one to the new one
[13:20]	:	good point. all of them should point to this page.
[13:20]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines
[13:20]	:	sorry for confusion. we'll look into it and do some redirects. :)
[13:20]	:	good point.
[13:21]	:	great feedback. ty.
[13:21]	:	next is threaded view improvements.
[13:21]	:	they need some clarifications though amanda
[13:21]	:	raymond? lexie?
[13:21]	:	kk, i'll jump into that thread and clarify. will do.
[13:21]	 	we kind of covered that. It is something we are talking to Lithium about
[13:22]	:	I mearly say something a lot are thinking ;)
[13:22]	 	people need to see who they are replying to etc
[13:22]	:	kk, coolio.
[13:22]	 	is a better set up available, we will find it ã‹¡
[13:22]	:	it does help conversations 'flow' a bit easier
[13:22]	:	next up is login issues.
[13:22]	 	
[13:22]	 	(torben.trautman): yay :)
[13:22]	:	agreed
[13:22]	:	and stops too many misunderstandings
[13:23]	:	raymond, wanna look at the link that torben added to agenda there?
[13:23]	 	that as well unless there were more questions about the log in issue
[13:23]	:	some people are saying they get logged out if they close the forums page and then try to reopen it after a while from the dashboard
[13:23]	:	they have to sign in again
[13:23]	:	there is a time limit if you are inactive
[13:23]	 	
[13:24]	:	time outs are broken across lithium... can we please find a way to shut them off?
[13:24]	:	ok so an hour
[13:24]	:	lexie im still geting 5 minute timeouts...
[13:24]	:	not sure if this is related... but say If I am in Answers and have not yet "signed it" when I do sign in I get piped to the Blog tab rahter then the Answer tab where i was...
[13:24]	:	personally that sounds ok to me but I know some people would like semi-perm log ins
[13:24]	:	Torben - regarding your link regarding logons - we are adding this to the backlog to fix
[13:24]	 	looking at that issue Stryker
[13:25]	:	cooly
[13:25]	 	(torben.trautman): awesome :)
[13:25]	:	Stryker - yep thats on the backlog!
[13:25]	 	all the feedback on the log in issue too
[13:25]	 	
[13:25]	:	abslutely!
[13:25]	:	absolutely!
[13:25]	:	yes, i can spell
[13:25]	 	
[13:25]	:	once in while.
[13:25]	:	/me grins
[13:26]	:	/me chuckles
[13:26]	:	is there a public "to-do" list of stuff your team is working on?
[13:26]	:	my bad habits are rubbing off on you amanda?
[13:26]	:	havnt had that happen for a year
[13:26]	 	public one no
[13:26]	:	/me smiles
[13:26]	:	Not a public one, but we can update you weekly here
[13:26]	:	fair enough
[13:27]	:	maybe you could update us in the group too?
[13:27]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I expect that Next could be a fluid designation
[13:27]	:	maybe a daily notice?
[13:27]	:	i think that a weekly update at these meetings is best, if that works for you guys
[13:27]	 	(torben.trautman): works fine for me :)
[13:28]	:	weekly update is good to have :)
[13:28]	:	/me nods
[13:28]	 	number of wiki edits, jira issues filed/commented/moved/solved, KB articles suggested/improved/translated and/or contribution agreements signed have influence on roles in the community platform?
[13:28]	:	cool. the team needs to focus on delivering and we should have lots of good stuff to share at weekly intervals.
[13:28]	:	maybe a bit of an off topic question... but is there a KB article on the "background image sizes" for the Badges on the Forum / av pictures?
[13:28]	:	ok with me too
[13:28]	:	if ther'es someting big, then we may update you via the inworld group tho.
[13:29]	 	jumped ahead lol
[13:29]	:	Suella did a good post on that Stryker
[13:29]	 	(torben.trautman): is there a inworld group yet?
[13:29]	:	yep, whoever wants an invite, just directly IM me.
[13:29]	:	ok, roles and ranks? we ready to tackle that one?
[13:30]	 	
[13:30]	 	hehe
[13:30]	:	do the lindens need any body armor before we begin?
[13:30]	 	
[13:30]	:	already have the group tag + the old one
[13:30]	:	haha
[13:30]	:	yeah this one is inspiring some contetion
[13:30]	 	
[13:30]	:	*contention
[13:30]	:	Re: Does the number of wiki edits, jira issues filed/commented/moved/solved, KB articles suggested/improved/translated and/or contribution agreements signed have influence on roles in the community platform?
[13:30]	 	(torben.trautman): I left all weapons at home today :)
[13:30]	 	jira are not part of the community platform so it will not impact the rank/role structure. 
 KB Articles that are improved and submitted for publishing would be considered accepted solutions once published. That would impact the ranking, yes.
[13:30]	:	/me notes that push is indeed on here
[13:31]	:	jira and wiki really should influcence those roles though... or else alternative roles for those that work there allot
[13:31]	 	answer it for you Torben?
[13:32]	:	I'm not sure why to be honest - forums stuff is forum stuff
[13:32]	 	(arawn.spitteler): What's the Rank and Roll Issue?
[13:32]	:	I'd prefer to see roles etc gone totally
[13:32]	 	(torben.trautman): yes and no, but then you already mentioned alternative solutions via Noelle and that already answered my alternative question :)
[13:32]	 	
[13:32]	 	the roles bother you?
[13:32]	:	becuase their favoritism
[13:32]	:	and allot of the people that have high roles do not deserve them
[13:33]	:	they seem to generate a 'competitive' edge in the forums
[13:33]	 	were unjustly issued based on accomplishments
[13:33]	 	are automatically assigned, so there is no favoritism
[13:33]	:	as yet noone is sure what determines 'promotion'
[13:33]	:	you have people that are racist or that routinely insult users with advisor roles
[13:33]	:	well, ithink it'd be good to have them jus so that newer users can have some idea of who might be trusted
[13:33]	:	but it wuld have to be well managed
[13:33]	:	for one thing we can add kudos to help increase a members role... is there a system inplace to decrease a members status as well?
[13:33]	:	so some people are posting like mad or making loads of threads , there's lots of veiled inneundo
[13:33]	:	it's all a bit yeuch
[13:33]	 	all had a chance to read the Community Help about Ranks and Roles?
[13:33]	 	(torben.trautman): yes
[13:34]	:	yes lexie
[13:34]	:	yes
[13:34]	 	
[13:34]	:	It seems an inherently "gamable" feature, and one that provides a visible "clout" to a user, whether deserved or otherwise
[13:34]	:	and allot of the jira helpers official or unofficial are slighted by these roles too
[13:34]	:	it is not transparent how one goes from H. Res to Member, for example
[13:34]	:	/me hangs his head in shame... no lexie... lol
[13:34]	 	in mind that the formula is a combination of items. Its not just about posting, or kudos. Its about partcipation.
[13:34]	:	cause most of us only use the forums rarely so we are lucky to get "hontored resident"
[13:34]	 	(arawn.spitteler): A person with much to say might not be the best judge of what others say
[13:34]	:	I also get the impression that there are some bruised egos about as people find they are merely 'lowly'
[13:34]	 	
[13:35]	 	(torben.trautman): I was disappointed when I turned into a member from honored resident - but then I read it was some kind of promotion and was happy again :)
[13:35]	:	And,likewise, the reverse exists
[13:35]	 	looking and the ranks/roles again and we may be able to simplify.
[13:35]	:	should it not be about quality of the participation Lexie?
[13:35]	 	on participation why was I initiated at the lowest rank when I was the largest participant in the old format?
[13:35]	:	lexie bottom line is the only people that seem happy with them are the trolls
[13:35]	 	keep you updated on that
[13:35]	:	which brings the question
[13:35]	:	why are many of the known trolls advisors?
[13:35]	 	be
[13:36]	:	participation I think means more than post counts Suspiria
[13:36]	 	not sure that is the case.
[13:36]	:	agree, Mags
[13:36]	 	
[13:36]	:	I can see the point of wanting to earn roles, it's giving people a morale boost to work harder for it and keep working.
[13:37]	:	It's easy enough to answer tons of questions with not to cleaver remarks... does that give me a "higher" status... I hope not...
[13:37]	:	it's a good thing to have appriciation for your work, even if it is volunteers work
[13:37]	 	also make sense to you to have more experienced residents contributing to the KB, rather than new residents?
[13:37]	:	its also easy for the same 5-6 people to game their roles by constnatly kudos etc eachother
[13:37]	:	yes, that makes sense to me
[13:37]	:	yes it does
[13:37]	:	Hey Blondin
[13:37]	:	that would lexie
[13:37]	 	about quality and being helpful.
[13:37]	 	you say thank you 2000 times in answers does that justify a higher rank? Or copy and pasting from the wiki?
[13:37]	:	hey blondin!
[13:38]	:	good to see you again m8 :p
[13:38]	:	yes lexie, but allot fo the most experienced residents spend more time on wiki and jira then forums
[13:38]	:	my personal interpretation of 'participation' is about quality of involvement - creating a positive environment and also by challenging and arguing appropriately
[13:38]	 	(torben.trautman): totally, I just think Lindens should keep in mind that there are some experienced residents not willing to participate much in forums but willing to help with KB articles
[13:38]	 	that improve help in the community are needed.
[13:38]	 	is nice but won't dont it ã‹¡
[13:38]	 	were solutions transfered from the old format?
[13:39]	:	Lexie: as i mentioned during the translator Oh's before, we need experienced people leading, not just big names that pose as they know a lot
[13:39]	 	were marked as Kudos in the migration
[13:39]	:	and many of those were gamed ><
[13:39]	:	and some of those flat out wrong answers at that
[13:39]	 	were marked as accepted solutions in the migration
[13:39]	 	with over 1000 pinots for helpful answers, why do I have only 10 solutions?
[13:39]	:	actully a good point lexie... in the end the user who posted the question decide if the answer is valid and hence the "points" go the the best answer.
[13:39]	 	
[13:40]	 	
[13:40]	 	
[13:40]	:	which means certain residents that often would always mark their friends as the best answer no matter what got solutions
[13:40]	:	*sighs*
[13:40]	 	Cummere
[13:41]	:	Puts us back at the era of "I'll rate you positive if you rate me positive," no?
[13:41]	:	why bother at all then... the forums are a popularity contest then
[13:41]	:	but that leaves only the issue the more your participate the higher your rank will be. If you only are able to answer a few questions you would never advance... or would you?
[13:41]	 	working on it, and please keep giving us your feedback.
[13:41]	:	there's always a way to game the system, but over time, the best content should float to top, along with the most valuable and helpful contributors will be recognized with elevated roles.
[13:41]	 	
[13:41]	:	while those of us that work our ****** off in wiki, jira dont get roles
[13:41]	 	(torben.trautman): maybe we just contact you when we see gaming happen?
[13:42]	:	please do. just email me.
[13:42]	 	(arawn.spitteler): If your nature i to answer questions, why would you care about Rank?
[13:42]	:	amanda@lindenlab.com.
[13:42]	 	deserve an answer Lexie?
[13:42]	:	can you not see why people are hating these roles?
[13:42]	:	it might be a good idea to have a small group of people that actually do the most and with that give the best. This group can actually do a bit to lighten your work etc
[13:42]	 	you have an acct issue. Lets cover that out of meeting time ok?
[13:42]	 	
[13:42]	 	
[13:42]	:	ok, time for me to put my hard hat on....
[13:42]	:	If I'm passionate abotu something, role becomes irrelevant. Appreciated, but irrelevant
[13:42]	:	moderation...
[13:43]	:	ok, lemem begin with a little preface.
[13:43]	:	/me chuckles
[13:43]	 	allowed to speak freely?
[13:43]	:	lemme say a few things first, k?
[13:43]	 	
[13:43]	:	right you can't bring the "rank" to the bank... so its all about appreciation
[13:43]	:	and the answer is---of course. :)
[13:43]	:	so, we have moderators in the system every day (7 days a week)
[13:43]	:	(Within the bounds of a G rated region)
[13:44]	:	and we're still figuring out the right levels on things.
[13:44]	:	jermey can you up this parcel to m please :P
[13:44]	 	(torben.trautman): *lol*
[13:44]	:	many folks walk a fine line re: teh community guidelines.
[13:44]	:	and, we've had some "report abuse" flame wars for content that was fine.
[13:44]	:	Cummere, I specifically lowered it to G so that our 16 and 17 year olds would be allowed to participate.
[13:44]	:	so, that's gonna end.
[13:45]	:	but, we're all learning together and i'm super open to feedback/thoughts.
[13:45]	:	the goal ist o keep the forums clean, productive, and helpful.
[13:45]	:	all of the community platform areas--actually
[13:45]	:	so, that's my preamble.
[13:45]	:	I think a lot of people need to get their heads arounf the fact that it is a G rated forum
[13:45]	:	ok, fire away.
[13:45]	:	that's one thing
[13:45]	:	true. it's public to web.
[13:45]	:	and it's our brand, so it needs to be g.
[13:45]	:	amanda basically put your moderators are very one sided, play favorites, and all around suck
[13:45]	:	secondly I do think cultural and language differences can cause some tensions where none were intended
[13:46]	 	(torben.trautman): overall I noticed moderation is way faster during LL office hours than it was with the old forums
[13:46]	:	ill explain why
[13:46]	:	but that's kind of hard to avoid in something that is literally global
[13:46]	:	we have users (advisors no less) that get by calling people a bitch... you mention that and YOU get moderated while thier insults pass...
[13:46]	:	ok, let's hit the playing favorites question.
[13:46]	 	a good point we should keep in mind
[13:47]	 	about moderation has to do with subjectivity. Each mod sees things â€œtheirâ€ way, i.e. what is a violation and what is not. What one mod may not reject, another will, and has. To me itâ€™s either against the guidelines or it isnâ€™t. Why should we be subject to discipline when the mods do not agree on the guidelines?
[13:47]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me quietrly suggests: You know Anchors, in HTML, can be addressed, as well as containing hyperlinks.
[13:47]	:	tthey absolutely do not play favorites.
[13:47]	:	well, there are several folks who moderate--we have 4 of them.
[13:47]	:	who take turns/shifts.
[13:47]	:	so, there will be some unevenness there, but they are all working with the same playbook.
[13:47]	 	(arawn.spitteler): They might not see favorites, if they think Jews are always put upon wrongly, while Arabs are always terrorists.
[13:48]	:	???
[13:48]	:	yikes. if you see that happening, that's not allowed at all arawn
[13:48]	 	meantime our records are being tarnished and we are being threatened with forum bans.
[13:48]	:	/me head swivels
[13:48]	:	then why is it that if you flag a certian person even if its clearly agaisnt the standards we get threatened. I got threatned twice for directly quoting someone calling me a bitch
[13:48]	:	I've never seen that happening
[13:48]	:	her post still stand unmoderated
[13:48]	:	i have not issues with the moderation at this time
[13:48]	:	yikes. send me posts you think are out of line like that.
[13:48]	 	(arawn.spitteler): That's just an example, of how bias might be missed; I was just reading a book, that illustrates the racism inherent in Imm unology
[13:48]	 	Cummero and see it daily
[13:49]	:	seriously, racist items are not allowed--that falls under name calling.
[13:49]	:	neither have I to be honest
[13:49]	:	mean time i also got warned for using the term damn good designs
[13:49]	 	can single out by name yet another gets reprimanded for not using names.
[13:49]	:	which is the name of a business
[13:49]	:	oh, that shouldn't have happened.
[13:49]	:	I know sometimes 'answering' posts are removed when an offending post is removed
[13:49]	:	like i said, we're figuring out as we go.
[13:49]	 	it does every day.
[13:49]	:	which can irk people a bit
[13:49]	:	as is bitchtails another name that got people flamed
[13:49]	:	but I've never seen any sign of blatant favouritism
[13:49]	:	ping me when you see things that are questionable.
[13:50]	:	seriously--help us find the right answers.
[13:50]	:	and theres a psot where greenzoners are constantly called terrorists
[13:50]	:	its been flagged repeatedly
[13:50]	:	Cummere, much like the issue with MOsely Sperbers sculpted brds, or going back AOL's mid-90s banning of the word "breast"
[13:50]	:	it stands
[13:50]	:	again I think some of this is about personal interpretation
[13:50]	 	regardarding moderation, no appeals process like before.
[13:50]	:	the moderation is for everyone's benefit--not to penalize unecessarily
[13:50]	 	(arawn.spitteler): What are Red-Zone and GreenZone?
[13:50]	:	yes, no appeals process.
[13:50]	:	if someone gets banned, its' because they've gotten 3 wanrings.
[13:50]	 	happens due to discriminatory practices.
[13:50]	:	if you don't respond to 3 warnings, then you're out
[13:50]	:	and some difficulties with the english language which can be a bit obtuse at times - especially whe it comes to humour
[13:50]	 	(torben.trautman): omg letÂ´s not talk about redzone...
[13:51]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Appeals Process is important, and why G-Team quit holding open meetings.
[13:51]	:	which is why its really rediculous amanda
[13:51]	:	no appeals. 3 warnings and it's a one week ban.
[13:51]	:	i got 2 warnings on two accounts ... for rediculousness
[13:51]	:	and it's only for community platform, not for SL
[13:51]	:	thought the G-Team was dissabondonned years ago
[13:51]	:	well as long as it's clear and people know - I guess it's fair
[13:51]	:	The thing about the moderators is that they do not know us and that is as it should be
[13:51]	:	if a tad stark
[13:51]	:	Amanda... what's 1 week on a live time of SL?
[13:52]	 	is cultural differences in language. What one country regards as common practice and acceptable, other countries see as rude.
[13:52]	:	i cant say damn good designs (the name of a business) or quote someone calling me a btich and saying stop
[13:52]	:	1 week ban on blogs/forums, etc. not for your SL account. meaning, you can still go inworld.
[13:52]	:	or i get banned... no appeal
[13:52]	 	anything that is against the guidelines
[13:52]	:	no cummere, you should get a warning.
[13:52]	:	personal insults are rude in any language
[13:53]	:	and, they only usually have time to go through the abuse queue--so that means someone reported it.
[13:53]	 	by saying "ANY" outting of alts is agaist the TOS. Yet the statement stands despite flaggin it.
[13:53]	:	either way... I have had issues with people who'd laugh about the "penalty"
[13:53]	:	why should i? saying dont call me a bitch like you did here "quote" should give me a warning?
[13:53]	:	saying the name of a store should give me a warning?
[13:53]	:	explain that amanda
[13:53]	:	the store thing shouldn't be a warning.
[13:53]	:	the problem with the 'store name' thing is
[13:53]	:	that was a bad on orur end. agreed.
[13:54]	 	a contradiction of the TOS and nothing was done to correct it
[13:54]	:	people can get clever and it's a bit like a kids school yard
[13:54]	:	if someone calls you a bitch--no need to repsond, just report it.
[13:54]	:	i did
[13:54]	:	put all the 'nasty' words in a name and it's ok
[13:54]	:	on E-bay when you do something wrong your "marked" as such... is that an idea in conjunction with the rank system?? (just thinking out lout here)
[13:54]	:	genn moderator then kindly "warned" me about it and let hers stand
[13:54]	:	I can see how there needs to be some give though
[13:54]	:	Amanda, you know how childish some people are, you need to be perfectly clear what you do not want someone to call you. Else they keep working on you till you go nuts
[13:54]	:	:)
[13:55]	 	not something that is part of the current platform
[13:55]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me fondly remembers being unable to research the inventor of Ivory Soap, due to Community Standards.
[13:55]	:	well mags if the name itself is extremely vulgar, i'd imagine the name would be considered something reportable, i'm not sure "dan good designs" quite qualifies though
[13:55]	:	i think the bottom line is that i would love your help to keep the forums/blogs clean and productive.
[13:55]	 	of no mod response : imagine how much more creative you could be if you spent less time here on these forums...
[13:55]	:	well maybe give it some more thought Lexie...
[13:55]	:	you're bringing up some good examples of edge cases.
[13:55]	:	if someone calls you a name, you should be able to say "Please do not call me "word", thank you
[13:55]	:	so, let's figure 'em out one by one. just email me when you have an issue. it will help me better train/inform the moderators going forward.
[13:56]	:	exactly youri
[13:56]	 	thread :Don't worry, Susp. Even if post limits are instituted (doubtful that will happen, though limits during a post-registration probation period might help control the L$ scam spam), you'll be top PW.
[13:56]	:	else you pretty much kill the rights on the victims and increase the rights for griefers
[13:56]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:56]	:	fair point. but, no one should be using those words and name calling.
[13:56]	 	list over 20 posts singling out with nothing done to stop it
[13:56]	:	just report it.
[13:56]	 	a problem it should be reported instead of breaking the guidelines
[13:56]	 	and was told I can't
[13:56]	:	agreed
[13:57]	:	it's like allowing people to get in, but they do need to have their cuffs on
[13:57]	:	in ranking as such, and answering questions by fellow resis in general, the avarage Joe want's to know if he can "trust" the answer.
[13:57]	:	exactly lexie
[13:57]	:	amanda for the thrid time WE HAVE reported it
[13:57]	:	your mods PLAY FAVORITES
[13:57]	:	ok, would lvoe you to send me info on your example.
[13:57]	:	if they are playing favorites, then i need to know and put a stop to it
[13:57]	 	be sending you 100 examples :)
[13:57]	:	I did already
[13:57]	:	last week
[13:57]	:	ha
[13:57]	:	kk, will go back in my email.
[13:57]	:	didn't see that one
[13:58]	:	resend it
[13:58]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Get the precise lines, Cummere, so the moderation could be reviewed, 100 sounds like a good start
[13:58]	:	lexie: I am aware of that, but I think it might be better to allow people to try to solve it first, if not working 9civilized way of course) then fill in a AR Report
[13:58]	:	pm to your community inbox
[13:58]	:	ok, we're at the end of our time and we got through our whole agenda!
[13:58]	:	ah, didn't look there. :) will do
[13:58]	 	(torben.trautman): yay :)
[13:58]	:	thanks all--ossm discussion.
[13:58]	 	but you do not need to use the word again and break guidelines to resolve it
[13:58]	:	whew - full aganda
[13:58]	 	to stand: Preposterous here are your tendencies in improving your rank on top of everybody else, which you apparantly cannot achieve by a high count of appreciated answers in the answer section of the forums, so you try to discredit the advocation of containing the overflow of the quantity of threads created elsewhere.
[13:58]	:	Thanks All
[13:59]	 	good feedback. We are listening ã‹¡
[13:59]	:	I often come across griefers, and i manage to get them out just by warning them to clean up/stop.
[13:59]	:	lexie if you dont use the word they respond with "Waht wrold"
[13:59]	:	I suggest that is a discussion point Suspiria
[13:59]	:	it's not the listening thats worries us... its what you do with the information ... LOL
[13:59]	 	you are tiresome and harassing
[13:59]	:	hmmm if all discussion/argument is disallowed the forums die surely
[13:59]	:	thank you for your opinion
[14:00]	:	:)
[14:00]	:	and often people take umbrage because of the people who respond rather than by the response itself
[14:00]	:	thanks to everyone.
[14:00]	 	and goodbye
[14:00]	:	we covered a lot of ground today.
[14:00]	:	'til next week!
[14:00]	:	thank you ã‹¡
[14:00]	 	
[14:00]	:	Bye Bye!
[14:00]	:	aight, thank you for the OH, ill be off to Terrence. Love to see what he's upto
[14:00]	 	want more examples I will happily provide them as how you follow me around to forum posting your condescention
[14:00]	:	thanks Linden people
[14:00]	:	thanks all! i heart this user group!
[14:00]	 	now!
[14:00]	:	another informative meeting
[14:00]	:	amanda if you want to wait two minutes im gonan show you something allwoed to stand by your mods
[14:00]	:	bye
[14:00]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me reminds one and all: Good practice in Trawling never violates the commuunity standards, but encourages others to do so
[14:00]	 	next week
[14:00]	 	(torben.trautman): bye all
[14:00]	:	By the same token, Mags, there are some there I'll never bother to respond to, because they'll go into ad hominem
[14:01]	:	Thanks Amanda, Lexie, and all
[14:01]	:	need to run cummere, but i'll look at your PM
[14:01]	 	(torben.trautman): /me waves
[14:01]	:	agreed Marianne
[14:01]	:	/me waves.
[14:01]	 	
[14:01]	:	teleports fail
[14:01]	:	gonne zone and try agian
[14:01]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me quickly ripples.
[14:01]	:	Just don't RedZone, Youri /me winks
[14:01]	:	although I always feel a bit 'rough' for excluding people from my forum discussions (ignoring) sometimes it seems to be the easiest way
[14:02]	:	/me shrugs
[14:02]	:	anyway
[14:02]	:	almost bedtime for me
[14:02]	:	night all
[14:02]	:	Mags - can't help those who don't want help
[14:02]	:	see you inworld or forums or somewhere no doubt
[14:02]	:	true Marianne
[14:02]	:	but I'm a stubborn old goat
[14:02]	:	Have fun, all!
[14:02]	:	jeremy--did you grab transcript?
[14:02]	 	has pinged you.
[14:02]	:	Bye Bye!!
[14:02]	:	I'll try to moderate that :-)
[14:03]	:	I can, Amanda. Discussing a new transcript tool with Rand.
[14:03]	:	kk, just makin' sure it gets grabbed. :)
 
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