Open Source Meeting/2010-02-25

== List of Attendees ==
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== Transcript ==
[13:56]	:	hi all
[13:56]	:	Hi Boroondas
[13:56]	:	'lo.
[13:56]	:	I hope I look dressed ... SG 2.0 seems a bit unpredictable concerning that.
[13:57]	:	Boroondas: Only one half of you looks dressed... but I think that's intentional ;)
[13:57]	:	O RLY?
[13:57]	:	are u sleeping?
[13:57]	:	viewer 2.0? when did that happen?
[13:57]	:	carrots would be nice. celery sucks
[13:57]	:	It didn't happen yet, all we got was a lousy beta ;)
[13:57]	:	Do mine too?
[13:57]	:	/me grins
[13:57]	:	I've only 57k worth of stuff that needs homess
[13:57]	:	/me snickers
[13:57]	:	ack - it's gone 1am
[13:57]	:	Gawd, that does sound like her
[13:57]	:	seeya Blue
[13:57]	:	Have fun everyone .. need to relog .. see you at Triage !!!!! :)))))
[13:57]	:	Davy's a Brit
[13:57]	:	you too
[13:57]	:	Bye Bye!!
[13:57]	:	night ?
[13:57]	:	hmm. triage is going to be different next week
[13:57]	:	No... really?
[13:57]	:	like UTTER CHAIS?
[13:57]	:	CHAOS*
[13:57]	:	I guess I should get to work m'self
[13:57]	:	I think Wednesday and Thursday triages will be starting again soon - not sure exactly when tho
[13:57]	:	Ya, the evening crowd
[13:57]	:	"OH NOES! IT:S THE END OF ESS ELL!"
[13:57]	:	/me will go offline to get some sleep
[13:57]	:	Have fun, folks!
[13:57]	:	/me waves
[13:57]	:	bye
[13:57]	:	you too!
[13:57]	:	See ya'll soon!
[13:57]	:	Bye Bye!!
[13:57]	:	hi all
[13:57]	:	Hi Boroondas
[13:57]	:	'lo.
[13:57]	:	I hope I look dressed ... SG 2.0 seems a bit unpredictable concerning that.
[13:57]	:	Boroondas: Only one half of you looks dressed... but I think that's intentional ;)
[13:57]	:	Interesting to hear those Metanomics people talk things over
[13:57]	:	yeah :-)
[13:58]	:	Hmmm ... maybe I should have gone to that.
[13:58]	:	there is a LOT of potential for this media on a HUD thing
[13:58]	:	They got very excited about that
[13:59]	:	Yeah, the new media on a prim stuff is the bee's knees
[13:59]	:	try downloading seaside and installing as your localhost server: http://www.seaside.st
[13:59]	:	/me isn't touching V2.
[13:59]	:	Hey Merov.
[14:00]	:	there are issues, of course. RIght now there's no obvious way to zoom into a webpage, so unless it has been designed for SL, everything is tiny (eensy weensy)
[14:00]	:	Losts of scheduile conflects with this and SLPro.
[14:00]	:	hi guys
[14:00]	:	Hey Merov
[14:00]	:	Hi Merov
[14:00]	:	Hi Merov
[14:00]	:	/me waves and smiles.
[14:00]	:	Have yu recovered from the big push?
[14:00]	:	and of course, I still can't see streaming media via the prim url
[14:01]	:	Merov, I hope you get some extra days off in the future for all the hard work you put in getting SG 2 together
[14:01]	:	recovered? I crashed at 9pm on the couch yesterday night...
[14:01]	:	hellooo
[14:01]	:	fancy seeing you here Chaley
[14:01]	:	Hi Aimee :D
[14:01]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	thanks guys, I feel I'm not quite done though
[14:01]	:	well, not just a feeling really...
[14:02]	:	I *know* I'm not quite done
[14:02]	:	quite a laundry list of ugly stuff I did to reach the milestone to clean up now
[14:02]	:	/me knows you know ㋡
[14:02]	:	whohoo CG! My hero!
[14:02]	:	no, you're my hero
[14:03]	:	you haven't killed me yet for build.sh ㋡
[14:03]	:	so when will viewer 2.0 get its on jira project setting?
[14:03]	:	Really, without CG shell scripting mastery, I wouldn't have made it
[14:03]	:	alright group hug
[14:03]	:	Ther's only 400+ of them right now in "unscheduled"
[14:03]	:	i gave the SVN a _bit_ of a tickle as well
[14:03]	:	3400 of which 400 are viewer 2 related
[14:04]	:	windows build is just about fine, linux 64 is basicly there with the extra jira patches
[14:04]	:	Saijanai: I don't know why it's not in PJIRA as a choosable option yet
[14:04]	:	honestly, I don't manage that bug list
[14:04]	:	in SNOW though, there is a Snowglobe 2.0 (since a while actually)
[14:04]	:	Rob is still listed as jira manager
[14:04]	:	/me sees a Nyx.
[14:05]	:	just lurking as I hunt wild bugs :)
[14:05]	:	/me hands Nyx a spear
[14:05]	:	wild bugs taste better
[14:05]	:	/me hands Nyx an M249
[14:05]	:	be vewwy quiet. I'm hunting wabbits!
[14:06]	:	/me gets the agenda...
[14:06]	:	/me holds Questar close.
[14:06]	:	you need an elmer fudd hat for the avie
[14:06]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:06]	:	/me mutters something quietly which sounds vaguely like "Vivox"
[14:06]	:	what was that -D to cmake that makes it build?
[14:06]	:	I didn't put that agenda together
[14:06]	:	Aimee, don't get me started. I ditched ALSA earlier because of that. :|
[14:07]	:	-DLL_TEST:BOOL=OFF
[14:07]	:	thanks
[14:07]	:	Thickbrick did
[14:07]	:	and it sounds good to me so we'll start with the first item
[14:07]	:	I just added the last item
[14:07]	:	The Unit test preventing me from getting a build the first night. I havn't played with that anymore due to buzy with tpv fallout and SLPro. I hope to do some more testing later tonight.
[14:07]	:	"Weekly Snowglobe update"
[14:08]	:	"Weekly Snowglobe update"
[14:08]	:	(forgot to sign...)
[14:08]	:	oh, should we sign topics we put on the Agenda?
[14:08]	:	well, not much happen really.... <cough/>
[14:08]	:	heh
[14:08]	:	okay: I was in hyper mode to get Snowglobe 2.0 out
[14:09]	:	which is: a first cut of the Viewer 2.0 code base, clean and all for FLOSS consumption
[14:09]	:	I only had time to merge the "branding"
[14:09]	:	I therefore put 1.3 on the back burner
[14:10]	:	but started again yesterday afternoon and indeed committed a fix for SNOW-431 this morning
[14:10]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-431 
 [#SNOW-431] Boost downloads for Snowglobe 1.3 aren't really 1.39.0
[14:10]	:	finally...
[14:10]	:	I looked in details at Robin fix for SNOW-485
[14:10]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-485 
 [#SNOW-485] Deadlock inLLTextureFetchWorker::DecodeResponder::completed / LLQueuedThread::generateHandle / LLTextureFetch::getRequestFinished
[14:10]	:	yea you had a question on that too?
[14:10]	:	is one lock necessary?
[14:10]	:	right, I added it to the comment
[14:11]	:	Robin, I'm still getting and empty solution file on windows
[14:11]	:	i need to review it in full context again to chcek
[14:11]	:	LAtif really? wow, its woking fine here? did the develop.py complete ok?
[14:11]	:	well, I looked in the code around and it seems inconsistent with the while() loop just above for instance
[14:11]	:	in the same method
[14:12]	:	i think you must lock if you update the state
[14:12]	:	Robin, it appear that configure runs fine
[14:12]	:	but the code is a house of cards
[14:12]	:	yes right, but you could keep the lock a little longer if you know you're going to lock it again right after
[14:13]	:	Halllooooo
[14:13]	:	those lock/unlock are pricy on apr mutexes
[14:13]	:	ah but thats one of the critical points the finish_work() MUST be unlocked
[14:13]	:	i'll review and play
[14:13]	:	hmmm... OK
[14:14]	:	you might be right
[14:14]	:	last time I did unlock/lock tricks like that though I got my virtual butt icked by Aleric
[14:14]	:	:)
[14:14]	:	although locking to change state and unlocking is pretty craszy
[14:14]	:	yea
[14:14]	:	its probably doing nothing
[14:14]	:	I've been running with Robin's patch for a while, and did see any reduction in framerate while decoding, but I DID ses an increase in fetch speed.
[14:14]	:	he was right BTW
[14:15]	:	ok, good to know
[14:15]	:	look I *want* to put 1.3 to rest
[14:15]	:	oh fetch is amazing in a mall now
[14:16]	:	so I'm going to spend another hour or so this afternoon to convince myself it's correct and commit
[14:16]	:	O also
[14:16]	:	you added some strange double "((" in some statement
[14:16]	:	o/
[14:16]	:	(correction: I _didn't_ reduction in framerate)
[14:16]	:	oh that was alerics idea
[14:16]	:	seems unecessary really
[14:16]	:	why?
[14:16]	:	makes the "&" more tight? :)
[14:16]	:	he wanted specific () grouping on a binary operator
[14:17]	:	protection from BOOL/bool ?
[14:17]	:	o he's right
[14:17]	:	but in that case, there was only one binary operation in the if ()
[14:17]	:	GCC 4.x has stricter ((xxx) && (xxx)) requirment.
[14:17]	:	I remember those Techwolf
[14:17]	:	you requested them IIRC
[14:18]	:	in this case it does nothing but it makes a point about it incase someone edits this and adds some other variable into the if()
[14:18]	:	OK
[14:18]	:	A little anal but OK...
[14:18]	:	i see his point but i've done a & b == c type mistakes myself in the past
[14:18]	:	merov said anal.....
[14:18]	:	At least I understand where it comes from
[14:19]	:	cool, I think we talked enough about that one
[14:19]	:	we should paste 2 weeks of irc logs on that jira ;-p
[14:19]	:	1.3 is really close to be done with that now :)
[14:20]	:	ok next
[14:20]	:	well, we just covered point 2.
[14:21]	:	so jumping to 3
[14:21]	:	What's the status of the Snowglobe snowflake logo trademark?
[14:21]	:	Interesting as I didn't realize it was a problem but, indeed, legal contacted me on this
[14:21]	:	I haven't had a discussion with them yet though
[14:22]	:	but I'd venture the ETA is "soon"
[14:22]	:	/me take notes that LL does have a legal department, merov confermed it. :-)
[14:22]	:	at least, the meeting with legal will be soon
[14:22]	:	ok
[14:23]	:	Not necessarily a department, could be external advisers :-)
[14:23]	:	does anyone from legal do OHs?
[14:23]	:	not that I know of Boroondas
[14:24]	:	anyhow, yes, I also saw SNOW-153 and robla's comment on the trademark
[14:24]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-153 
 [#SNOW-153] Replace the Snowglobe logo/default icon
[14:24]	:	btw., is the name "Snowglobe" trademarked, too?
[14:24]	:	I actually don't know where that effort stand but that's likely the thing legal wants to talk to me about
[14:25]	:	I really don't know Boroondas, I would guess that's part of the package
[14:25]	:	I did a search and found an application for a trademark a while ago (link in that JIRA)
[14:25]	:	alright
[14:25]	:	ok, so, that's the status on that one
[14:25]	:	next
[14:25]	:	I'm still expecting to use snowglobe and the logo for my debian/ubuntu builds, but these will be right off the published source code and so not really a derrived viewer but an independendly built viewer, so IMHO thats with in acceptable T usage policy, if not i will wait for the C&D
[14:26]	:	Soft mentioned many things that he's talking to LL Legal about --- worth reading his po6ts on opensource-dev made yesterday.
[14:26]	:	4 Mercurial
[14:27]	:	so, for SG2.0, we choose to stick to svn because it was just easier to get something out faster
[14:27]	:	in the future though, we fully intend to switch to hg
[14:28]	:	we need however to make some repo splitting internally so we can do "hg clone" and share more of the code history
[14:29]	:	while making the whole export process more sane (and less buggy)
[14:29]	:	there's an internal project under way to get to that point
[14:29]	:	/me wonders why the split hasn't been done with the internal transition to hg. Would seem to be a good oportunity for such a step.
[14:29]	:	a few of us have a stake in it so that's moving forward
[14:30]	:	Boroondas: we talked about it but there were competing tasks and priorities
[14:31]	:	no overarching technical reason for it, just prioritozation of what needed to be done with resources and time
[14:32]	:	we have a lot of hg zealots at LL so it's not like we don't like it :)
[14:32]	:	is BoS still there?
[14:32]	:	absolutely!
[14:32]	:	:-)
[14:32]	:	he literally writes books on hg ;-)
[14:33]	:	openly, even :-)
[14:33]	:	I know: he loobied me and robla back at the start of Snowglobe to use hg
[14:33]	:	right off the bat
[14:33]	:	but mixing that with the export script was a tad too much
[14:34]	:	anyway, one interesting question in the agenda is: can we mirror svn with an hg repo?
[14:34]	:	git has git-svn does hg have a similar wrapper?
[14:34]	:	it has been done, back when hg.secondlife.com was new
[14:34]	:	but went out of date short after
[14:34]	:	I think that hg has a similar function
[14:35]	:	post-commit hook on svn server to hg commit?
[14:35]	:	/me poke CG
[14:35]	:	cg is meditating, don't disturb ;)
[14:35]	:	I think Hg does, seem to recall it was mentioned yesterday in opensim-dev, where there was a suggestion to move from Git to Hg (mostly rejected yesterday, haven't looked today)
[14:36]	:	best Linden to poke about this might be BoS, anyway
[14:36]	:	/me wakes up, startled - huh?
[14:36]	:	boo
[14:36]	:	lol
[14:37]	:	ok, one thing I'd be worried about is changes made independently in both repors
[14:37]	:	repos
[14:37]	:	i would assume that only one would have general commit rights for th emoment
[14:37]	:	there is a similar wrapper for hg, but as Merov said, it would be better to switch wholesale
[14:37]	:	so for the minute hg is apure mirror
[14:37]	:	people can clone and play with local copies and branches but not push back
[14:37]	:	Could name a Big Bang week, send all devs hope for a week except for the transition to Hg team. :-) I bet many could do with some rest :-)
[14:38]	:	well, just to get used to the "hg pull -u" routine?
[14:38]	:	the SVN version would be considered authoritative until the switch to hg is official
[14:38]	:	we did want to switch earlier, but the export process would have had to be redesigned
[14:39]	:	even LL is not yet completely switched to hg
[14:39]	:	hmm... ok, I'm willing to look into this Robin though having it just read only is not super useful
[14:40]	:	and the way the switch was done is imperfect in many ways - i.e the repositories are not in a state where we can simply hg push them out into the world
[14:40]	:	I know it's a pain to handle both hg and svn (I keep typing "svn status -ma" for instance)
[14:40]	:	oh gee, every time I have to goback to svn, I type hg ci ㋡
[14:40]	:	so I'd really like that switch to happen sooner rather than later
[14:40]	:	lol
[14:41]	:	but I'd rather spend my energy helping the repo split to happen internally
[14:41]	:	sooo ... keep us updated on that and let's move on, I guess
[14:41]	:	kk may be better to wait and safe that effort for the moment then?
[14:41]	:	so that we do the real switch once and for all
[14:41]	:	ok, let's moce to the next item
[14:41]	:	/move/
[14:41]	:	Think I'll use Hg for my next project to get a feel for it.
[14:41]	:	yeah, we need to get our own repos cleaned up... that in itself is huge... and will hopefully also address the current thrid party library thing
[14:42]	:	http://hginit.com
[14:42]	:	hg rocks
[14:42]	:	heh, I was just about to paste that link
[14:42]	:	SNOW-495
[14:42]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-495 
 [#SNOW-495] BINDIST --- easy way to produce legally distributable binary packages
[14:42]	:	http://hgbook.red-bean.com/ <<-- BoS's Book!
[14:43]	:	/me returns into his meditative state
[14:43]	:	heh
[14:43]	:	note that I filed the issue before the TPV policy was here :-P
[14:44]	:	so only coincidentally related
[14:44]	:	it's an interesting idea actually
[14:44]	:	it should not need massive changes either
[14:44]	:	/me wonders if she's th only person' that's had to alias "hg" to "hug"
[14:44]	:	/me doesn't want to talk about TPV, because version #1 was so completely inept and unusable. Let rebase on v2 ;-)
[14:44]	:	lol Aimee
[14:44]	:	gentoo has a "bindist" useflag for firefox and other mozilla products, that'll change the branding etc ...
[14:45]	:	I think that some of the "branding" stuff should be reusable here
[14:45]	:	some cmake flags already partially change branding but we could see this to completion
[14:45]	:	actually, I was thinking to push that branding thing to main and make it use appropriate parameters
[14:45]	:	which is basically a similar/close idea
[14:45]	:	snowglobe currently uses default executable name then renames which is sub optimal when you can rename at the beginning
[14:46]	:	And gentoo test arch now has a freatrue for interactive products that require "yes" to liecent, like sun java and vmware.
[14:46]	:	ln -s /usr/bin/hg /usr/local/bin/hug
[14:46]	:	absolutely, it's very hacky
[14:46]	:	Thanks Aimee, great idea :-)
[14:46]	:	but there is a nice VIEWE_BINARY_NAME flag
[14:47]	:	yeap, this is one thing which is not in the internal scripts
[14:47]	:	which is silly, it should really
[14:47]	:	robla never pushed his branding stuff back to main
[14:47]	:	packager also changes exec name addng channel to it
[14:47]	:	VIEWER_BINARY_NAME etc is, i got that into the original cmake implementation or the viewer build
[14:47]	:	*of
[14:48]	:	may be I'm mixing with some other parameters then
[14:48]	:	but agreeded we could do more/better and it should be in main
[14:48]	:	Morgaine: I now "hug push" the viewer every time I send it out ;)
[14:48]	:	:-P
[14:48]	:	:D
[14:48]	:	Haha
[14:49]	:	sounds like a body check
[14:49]	:	Aimee is that like tough love?
[14:49]	:	and "hug fetch" gets you more warm and fuzzy code!
[14:49]	:	/me grins
[14:49]	:	I be doing that a lot. LOL
[14:49]	:	:D
[14:49]	:	well, Boroondas, I like the idea
[14:49]	:	warm and fuzzy code. Yum
[14:49]	:	that's an oxymoron, no?
[14:49]	:	Fuzzy logic.
[14:49]	:	So, anyone to help with it? I don't know enough CMake to do it alllone.
[14:49]	:	we should at least makes that branding stuff better and push it to main
[14:50]	:	"hug merge" does sound a bit intimate though
[14:50]	:	:-)
[14:50]	:	I can help you since I had to learn quite a bit of it recently
[14:50]	:	Boroondas, I"me somewhat failmer with cmake, what needs to be again?
[14:50]	:	to be done
[14:50]	:	more than I wanted to know to be honest
[14:50]	:	I know the py and sh scripts better though
[14:51]	:	some of the cmake commands are pure mystery to me
[14:51]	:	well, before the CMake fun starts, we first have to know what the result should be, anyway ...
[14:51]	:	i.e. how the bindist build must be different from what we have now
[14:51]	:	I would love to be able to tell cmake down only these binairy from LL, not all the them.
[14:51]	:	... and that brings us back to the Snowglobe name and logo legal aspects...
[14:52]	:	down=download
[14:52]	:	Techwolf: that would make for a long list of "this not that"
[14:52]	:	no?
[14:53]	:	won't you prefer to edit your own "install.xml"
[14:53]	:	so to pull what you want from where you want it?
[14:53]	:	and build the rest
[14:54]	:	./scripts/install.py can already fetch-unpack single packages, when prompted to
[14:54]	:	/me waits for Techwolf answer
[14:55]	:	Merov, not really if done right. Editing install.xlm still has to download bianirarys no matter where you put them. Its an idea and have put some thight into it, but havn't started it as a project due to that would take a lot of time.
[14:55]	:	install.py actually checks a cache with downloaded packages
[14:55]	:	so you don't download each time
[14:56]	:	well, it'd be useful to be able to use the "presets" we already have and modify them as needed. Like specify "non-standalone, but use local llqtwebkit" or "standalone, but use LL-provided boost"
[14:56]	:	even when you clear libraries
[14:56]	:	/me does this all the time
[14:57]	:	well, improving and simplifying the build *is* a good idea no matter what
[14:57]	:	Your thking binianys only. I'je thinkibng of just some bianrys. But as I said, it a large project for me to do and the end result would be some flexabilty on what to build from source and build from bianray.
[14:57]	:	make
[14:57]	:	make install.
[14:57]	:	Yes. I like to dump ./devollope.py and use cmake.
[14:58]	:	you can already invoke cmake directly
[14:58]	:	I use it to do out-of-source-tree builds
[14:58]	:	actually, that was robla's goal too, use only cmake
[14:58]	:	That what I do reight now, use cmake instaad of devolope.py, but I have to pass a LOT of variables.
[14:58]	:	(dunno if it calls back to develop.py in the process)
[14:59]	:	yeah well, develop.py is just so you don't have to pass all those variables
[14:59]	:	develop.py does do more on windows
[14:59]	:	Have most of them default to standalone on linux and NOTstandalon on windows and set subvariable as apporite.
[14:59]	:	you cannot just run cmake though that is an issue
[14:59]	:	And let LL build system do anything special for there bianrys.
[15:00]	:	you need cmake -Gsomething as a minimum
[15:00]	:	well, because for windows, there's no default makefile format
[15:00]	:	OK, well, I'm all in favor of improvements to make the build process *easier* and closer to pure cmake
[15:01]	:	:-)
[15:01]	:	my mumbles somthing about an improvement to the build system contract bid
[15:01]	:	I'm not pushing back, just thinking at how best to do something like that
[15:01]	:	suggestion, patches, etc... welcome...
[15:02]	:	time check: it's 3pm
[15:02]	:	the remaining items on the agenda are 1.4 and 2.0
[15:02]	:	Has there been official comment yet regarding the relationship between LL Viewer2.0 and Snowglobe2.0? Or is that still forthcoming?
[15:02]	:	Right now, I have one bug assign to me to fix a regression in viwer_manifest.py. Another file that I like to dump.
[15:02]	:	cmake could do a much better job of that one
[15:02]	:	Quick question before I go: Is Snowglobe 2.0 going to be parallel development branch beside 1.3? Or is 2.0 what comes after 1.2? (I'm curious because it affects how I organize the commit inheritance in my git source archive)
[15:02]	:	Not just 2.0 but 2.x future.
[15:03]	:	Morgaine: right now, we'll be syncing up Snowglobe 2.0 with the Viewer-2-0 branch
[15:03]	:	I need to push my (and CG) scripts hack in the main though
[15:03]	:	Sync'ing doesn't really address the question of commonality
[15:03]	:	to make that really automatic
[15:03]	:	Jacek, there is potential room for a 1.4 but that might never happen or if it does that will be be the last 1.X
[15:04]	:	I'm not sure what you mean by "commonality" then
[15:04]	:	What I'm asking is whether it is yet known whether the closed source and open source viewers will diverge.
[15:05]	:	(Although we haven't yet had official confirmation that main viewer will be closed source, so I guess my question is premature)
[15:06]	:	Happy to wait until it's official, either way
[15:06]	:	One thing it that we will have in Snowglobe features that might not make it back in the main viewer
[15:06]	:	things that are experimental but important for this community
[15:06]	:	and the other way too?
[15:06]	:	e.g. OGP-Login (at least, as it is right now...)
[15:06]	:	It's the other direction that worries people
[15:07]	:	an the inability to check what has been merged or not. for example is the first download packet 600 or 1000 bytes, what has been merged and what not?
[15:07]	:	Gotta run, take care all!
[15:07]	:	tc, Jacek
[15:07]	:	UXIG time
[15:08]	:	okay okay, I cant make a blanket statement on all branches developed at LL, really
[15:08]	:	An official statement is forthcomign though, right?
[15:09]	:	Yes, there are internal discussions on this
[15:09]	:	please keep us updated on that - when there's no info people tend to assume the worst.
[15:10]	:	I know, I'll keep you updated
[15:10]	:	Well LL 2.0 is just beta, so I guess things are still fluid. But when it's released, the Snowglobe community is going to need to know exactly where it stands w.r.to the Linden viewer.
[15:10]	:	you will Morgaine
[15:11]	:	/me chuckles
[15:11]	:	he
[15:11]	:	ok, 3:11 and I'd like to call 1.3 a wrap tonight
[15:12]	:	I read that people have been happy with the stability of the binaries so far so it's time to ship that baby
[15:12]	:	and simplify the downloads for Snowglobe... (confusing with 3 versions right now...)
[15:12]	:	ship it!
[15:13]	:	:-)
[15:13]	:	I think some clearer formatting on the SG wiki page will help, especially for poeple not versed in development terminology.
[15:13]	:	then push scripts to main, sync 2.0, merge old Snowglobe specific things to SG 2.0...
[15:13]	:	/me pants
[15:13]	:	Hahahaa
[15:13]	:	Merov, a few of the standalone and 64bit build issues we synced already
[15:13]	:	yes, yes pants are still in the viewer :)
[15:14]	:	Was there a new installer for Viewer 2.0? It seemed to go a lot faster than when I install SG
[15:14]	:	throw some meetings with legal in the middle..
[15:14]	:	Jonathan: SG 20?
[15:14]	:	SG 1.3
[15:14]	:	btw, I think snowglobe needs a page to cater its (potential/future) non-dev users (although we might want to convert them to devs, whenever possible). Would wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe be the right place for that?
[15:14]	:	vs regular V2.0
[15:14]	:	Hmm, didn't http://secondlife.com/download used to link directly to snowglobe downloads?
[15:15]	:	we need to do something with http://snowglobeproject.org/
[15:15]	:	we can't edit that
[15:15]	:	no but its a wasted resource currently
[15:15]	:	Converting non-devs to C++ devs is the funniest suggestion I've heard for a long time. Fuzz testing the repository? ;-)
[15:16]	:	I've a couple of internal JIRA on that page Robin
[15:16]	:	I don't have accesss to that HTML either :/
[15:16]	:	right now the http://secondlife.com/download page sends you to the open source portal, and the Download link there just sends you to the source code, unless you go hunting further down the page
[15:16]	:	Download Size: Unknown
[15:16]	:	That's cute
[15:17]	:	/me pictures a Dilbert sketch in which the PHB is given vi and Git to use.
[15:17]	:	lol
[15:17]	:	Igittigittigitt
[15:18]	:	Aimee: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe has the links to SG2.0 so, eventually, you get there
[15:18]	:	but yeah, it's not super direct
[15:18]	:	perhaps Download Snowglobe somewhere near the top of https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Portal
[15:18]	:	one thing though: I'm not pushing folks to use the SG2.0 binaries *now*
[15:19]	:	it's still fugly and the point of the milestone was for *this* community (right here in this SIM) to get to the *source code*
[15:19]	:	that was the important critical delivery
[15:19]	:	it builds now too ;-)
[15:19]	:	Oh!
[15:19]	:	�/
[15:20]	:	still building here... is it me or does the 2.0 takes twice as long ;)
[15:20]	:	so I've been a little light on the binaries, I admit
[15:20]	:	the template for the SG downlaod used to be on the top of wiki/Open_Source_Portal
[15:20]	:	yeah, my point was anyone wanting to try snowglobe gets sent to the source code by the "Download" link at the top of the Open Source Portal, that should maybe say "Source Download"
[15:20]	:	Oh, cool! Well done guys ... /me grabs
[15:20]	:	/me remembers some recent edits about "suppressing links"
[15:21]	:	Thickbrick: yes, I took that out as the Open Source page is supposed to be about all things Open Source at LL, not just Snowglobe
[15:21]	:	I guess this was in preparation for 2.0, have those been restored, yet?
[15:22]	:	http://secondlife.com/download should link to binary downloads of Snowglobe too, not everyone's going to want to compile it themself
[15:23]	:	I am fashionably late. Thus, I win and you all fail. :p
[15:23]	:	llagent.cpp ... and now linking... ;)
[15:23]	:	Aimee: you're right
[15:24]	:	or at least to the Snowglobe main page, not the open srouce portal. Then we need to make the SG page a little more clear to non-technical people, but that we don't need super editing powers for.
[15:24]	:	I need to get a hold of who owns that page
[15:24]	:	Zai Lynch might help ... she's THE wiki exper of the SL community
[15:24]	:	*expert
[15:25]	:	That's not a wiki page Bor, or we could all do it
[15:25]	:	I suggest we talk about ideas for the snowglobe page on it's talk page.
[15:25]	:	and link fails...
[15:25]	:	That way at least "our" side is covered.
[15:26]	:	Latif, oh noes!
[15:26]	:	ah, it's about http://snowglobeproject.org/ ?
[15:26]	:	I mean ways to make it more clean what to download and how to participate (2 equaly important)
[15:27]	:	ah, build solution failed, it did produce .exe
[15:27]	:	failed on trying to copy fmod.dll
[15:28]	:	/me was distracted
[15:28]	:	sorry guys, gotta run..
[15:28]	:	realy
[15:28]	:	See you Merov, thanks :-)
[15:28]	:	see you next week!
[15:28]	:	take care Merov
[15:28]	:	bye!
[15:29]	:	see you next week meroc, and thanks for getting the source out
[15:29]	:	*Merov
[15:29]	:	time I found some paracetamol and went to bed :S
[15:29]	:	"Goodbye!!"
[15:29]	:	all, thanks for the education and, ahem, the bears.
[15:29]	:	aimee sounds like shes UK
[15:29]	:	night all, i'm heading off as well
[15:30]	:	night :)
[15:30]	:	good night robin
[15:30]	:	hug all
[15:30]	:	/me blames it all on Aimee :p
[15:30]	:	its all right for Aimee shes does not roll in untill 10:30 and thats falling out of bed and switching the mac on ;-p
[15:30]	:	lol
[15:30]	:	lol
[15:30]	:	Aimee, do you know if fmod is the same version as in 1.3?
[15:30]	:	yeah, need to work on that, bed's too far from the Mac
[15:31]	:	we haven't updated fmod as far as I'm aware
[15:31]	:	kk
[15:31]	:	bad bad bad
[15:31]	:	Aimee, plug in your iBed.
[15:31]	:	lol
[15:31]	:	yeah, mixed feelings about fmod
[15:31]	:	always keep stuff up to date so you can benefit from the latest security flaws!
[15:32]	:	we'd have to pay a chunky licence fee to upgrade
[15:32]	:	3.5 works fine
[15:32]	:	Openal work good on my system and I recommend to any linux user.
[15:32]	:	recommend it to
[15:32]	:	fmod has features openal doesn't that I'd love to make use of in future, but really OpenAL is the way to go for the sake of freedom
[15:33]	:	openal handles inworld spacial sounds?
[15:33]	:	yes
[15:33]	:	ah SG build makes the installer now
[15:33]	:	Does it also make the uninstaller?
[15:34]	:	right, night all!
[15:34]	:	in fact, alerci recntly found a bug where on windows some object's sound was either on or off, and on linux ot had proper falloff
[15:34]	:	i get ./newview/release/Snowglobe_2-0-0-0_Setup.exe
[15:34]	:	*Aleric
[15:34]	:	night Aimee
[15:34]	:	uninstaller is part of it
[15:34]	:	BTW, I'm running a local 1.4 build done with ./develop.py -t=Release (haven't done that in a while) - it's SO much faster than building with -t=Debug ot LL's builds
[15:34]	:	Find the part that deletes chat logs and beat somebody senseless with it.
[15:35]	:	that sounds painful
[15:35]	:	could be a heavy part
[15:35]	:	I always build for Release as I don't know how to debug anyway.
[15:35]	:	need help lifting it?
[15:36]	:	In fact, I feel my being here is like trying to make butter from skim milk. Totally pointless.
[15:36]	:	why?
[15:36]	:	What have ai accomplished?
[15:36]	:	what have you learned?
[15:36]	:	I use splitdebug, its release for me. The stripping is done at the end, I grab the biniary and move then over before they are stripped and let portage handlle the split debug.
[15:37]	:	if the answe is not "nothing" then it's not a complete waste of time
[15:37]	:	Well, I haven't been able to really finish anything.
[15:38]	:	I have learned a lot tinkering with the viewer source over the last year or so
[15:38]	:	And now 1.4 won't build again.
[15:38]	:	cmake is giving me an error after the last svn update.
[15:38]	:	I revert it and the error is still there.
[15:38]	:	try make clean
[15:38]	:	( I probably still don't qualify for morgain's definition of "c++ developer")
[15:39]	:	what's the error?
[15:39]	:	lot of nested boost templates?
[15:39]	:	Yeah, I am running the target binary so clean won't work at the moment.
[15:40]	:	
 CMake Error at media_plugins/gstreamer010/CMakeLists.txt:58 (STRING):
[15:40]	:	cmake "make clean" is rm -fr ${build_dir}
[15:40]	:	I am on Windows 7
[15:40]	:	uhh, that's my commit
[15:40]	:	If that makes any sense. Why is it even considering gstreamer?
[15:40]	:	I thgouth that file isn't even processed on Windows
[15:41]	:	Morgain doesn't like C++ so what does it matter?
[15:41]	:	Lot of bad logic in the cmake files.
[15:41]	:	LL_TESTS was just the tip of the iceburg.
[15:42]	:	Ardy, the commit that broke it is from SNOW-513
[15:42]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-513 
 [#SNOW-513] GCC 4.4: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'gchar*'
[15:43]	:	/me steps back to 3136
[15:44]	:	Okay. configure seems to work now
[15:44]	:	you can comment out the 5 offending lines - since you don't build gstreamer anyway
[15:44]	:	I will try to figure out what's up with that
[15:44]	:	Is it not wrapped with a platform conditional?
[15:44]	:	I thought it was
[15:45]	:	I guess nobody else is building 1.4 on Windows?
[15:45]	:	I just commited a few hours ago
[15:45]	:	Or maybe all eyes are on 2.0
[15:45]	:	probably
[15:46]	:	Well, I really was hoping to be able to learn something in my down time.
[15:47]	:	/me waves
 
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