Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-01-12

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on January 12th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Back in the swing of things
=== Updates ===
* We put out 3 codebases, one stuck.
* "Second Life Server Channel"
** No main channel update this week.
** We did not have code ready for promotion in RC last week so there was nothing to promote this week.
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This was to be a new project but it contained a notecard crasher.
* This channel was set to match LeTigre.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.01.06.247303
* LeTigre RC Channel
* Bug Fixes
** Offline email notifications received but never delivered on login.
** How does this look?
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.01.06.247303
* Magnum RC Channel
* This project was a combination of LeTigre and BlueSteel. Because it contained BlueSteels notecard crasher it was rolled to the LeTigre code.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.01.06.247303
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* new maint-server
*Features
* New LSL function integer llSetRegionPos(vector position)
*: The object with the script will move the root prim position to the given location. The position is any position within the region. If the position is below ground, it will be set to the ground level at that X,Y spot. The function has no delay or throttle.
*:* Returns 1 if the object is successfully placed within 0.1 m of position.
*:* Returns 0 and does not move the object if position is more than 10m off region or above 4096m.
*:* Returns 0 and does not move the object if the object is dynamic (has physics enabled).
*:* Returns 0 and does not move the object if the object can not move to position due to object entry rules, prim limits, bans, etc.
* "frame_number" option added to llGetEnv()
*: Returns an integer that represents the current 'frame' of the simulator. Generally only useful for specific debugging cases.
* Bug Fixes
** A notecard holds more data than a script can read 
** Keyframe motion doesn't move towards the correct position when specified time is not an exact multiple of 1/45 seconds 
** llSetKeyframedMotion cannot stop animation if none is running ... sounds less important than it is ... 
** Weird mesh land impact issue
** Fixed several simulator crash bugs and potential memory leaks.
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Simon hints that he is working on something awesome but we can't talk about it.
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for January 12th, 2012:
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: good day!
* [15:00] Jonathan Yap: Hi Oskar
* [15:00] Gooden Uggla: hiya oskar
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: hello psi, gooden, flip, theresa and draconis
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: and moundsa
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: and homeless
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: and jonathan
* [15:01] Theresa Tennyson: Hi!
* [15:01] Moundsa Mayo: Heya! Hope holoidys were good!
* [15:01] Moundsa Mayo: AND your holidays!
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: they wer egood enough
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: u?
* [15:02] Draconis Neurocam: oh hello oskar
* [15:02] Moundsa Mayo: FUn personal projectts, too much food, and not TOO much family B^D
* [15:02] Homeless: now that's weird... I tried to sit in my case.. I got sent to 0,0,0 and my case vanished
* [15:02] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: I am so sorry homeless
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: no home for you
* [15:02] Homeless: I just can't win can I... LOL
* [15:03] Grid Crash Protection Box: Homeless Resident, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [15:03] Homeless: will have to squat in the grid protection box
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
* [15:03] Homeless: BTW, hello everyone!
* [15:03] Moundsa Mayo: Hi Rex
* [15:03] Moundsa Mayo: Hi Homeless
* [15:04] Homeless: Hi Moundsa
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: hi moundsa, homelesss
* [15:04] Homeless: Hi Rex
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: i will be afk for a few minutes
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: my machine is kinda lagging out on me
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: alright well welcome everyone
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: I have some MIPS in my pocket if they will fit your machine.
* [15:05] Oskar LindenOskar Linden takes all he can get
* [15:05] Homeless: the OH is off to a good start.. everything is starting to crash
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: B^)
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: good news and bad news this week
* [15:07] Homeless: argh... "simon is working on something awsome but we can't talk about it"
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we have our first RC of the year!
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: but just one
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: and without llsetregionpos
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: `*`WooT`*`
* [15:07] Flip Idlemind: Good, more time to create a PRIM_REGION_POS flag to go with it!
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we did the magnum roll first thing wednesday morning
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: but
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we noticed the crash rates going up
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we narrowed it down to some changed NC code
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: North Carolina?
* [15:08] Homeless: My viewer 1.23 never crashes... crashed 3 times yesterday
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: yes
* [15:08] Gooden Uggla: notecard crash again?
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we pulled all north carolina code
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: so we rolled forward to the good RC code that was on LeTigre
* [15:09] Moundsa Mayo: It's that Tarheel Anomaly!
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: we only had two code candidates BlueSteel and LeTigre
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: and Magnum was a combo of the two
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: the failing code was in BlueSteel
* [15:09] Gooden Uggla: the research triangle has a lot to answer for!
* [15:10] Moundsa Mayo: B^) Gooden!
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: LeTigre only has one fix in it
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: that is a fix for Offline email notifications received but never delivered on login.
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: SVC-7540
* [15:11] Oskar LindenOskar Linden pokes the jira machine
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: *ahem*
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: SVC-7540
* [15:11] Jonathan Yap: vwr-1024
* [15:11] Flame of Jira: [#VWR-1024] WindLight: Full bright textures aren't affected by haze. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1024
* [15:11] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:11] Moundsa Mayo: Still on holidays.
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: svc-7540
* [15:11] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7540] Offline email notifications received but never delivered on login. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7540
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: doesn't like caps
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: failcake
* [15:11] Homeless: if you shake the jira machine hard enough, it might cough up a free jira
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: who wrote that thing anyway?
* [15:11] Moundsa Mayo: With sprinkles!
* [15:11] Oskar LindenOskar Linden peers around
* [15:11] Draconis Neurocam: it should handle caps
* [15:12] Moundsa Mayo: It should be case-agnostic
* [15:12] Theresa Tennyson: I thought the JIRA description would only show up after we blocked someone
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: wait, you expect everything to work every time? in SL?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: anyways
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: how does that look?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: maestro was curious if it appears to be fixed or nit
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: not
* [15:13] Theresa Tennyson: I saw a post on the forum from someone who got a bucket of backed up notices, etc.
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:14] Jonathan Yap: I got some here today sent by Maestro 2 months ago when I twiddled my mute list
* [15:14] Maestro Linden: Cool.
* [15:14] Moundsa Mayo: Oooohhhh, you muted MAESTRO?!!
* [15:15] Jonathan Yap: no, I muted an object, which then trigged backed up IM delivery
* [15:15] Moundsa Mayo: OooooooK!
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: back
* [15:15] Jonathan Yap: actually, it was group notices that appeared
* [15:15] Gooden Uggla: interesting reaction
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: more than likely this code will get promoted next Tuesday morning
* [15:17] Gooden Uggla: good job
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we have a new No Change Window coming up
* [15:18] Nalates Urriah: o.o
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: since next Monday is a holiday
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we will be releasing code Tuesday morning though
* [15:19] Gooden Uggla: huh? no change, but you'll be making changes?
* [15:19] Maestro Linden: assuming it doesn't break stuff
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: no change window refers to live changes
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: code releases
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: if it breaks stuff we just don't ship it
* [15:21] Homeless: when will the no change window occur?
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: each weekend is a no change window
* [15:21] Gooden UgglaGooden Uggla makes a note on his calendar to be afraid on tuesday
* [15:21] Homeless: ohhhhh
* [15:21] Nalates Urriah: Doh
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: starts Thursday afternoons actually
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we're just extending it to include the Monday holiday
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: and I was just lettingyou know
* [15:21] Gooden Uggla: hence the friday note to be afraid...
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: nothing to be afraid of
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: nothing more than any usual week
* [15:22] Nalates Urriah: Chinese New Year is Monday after next...
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: nice
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: but we don't have that day off
* [15:24] Nalates Urriah: Strike!
* [15:24] Rex Cronon: is it year of the dragon. righ?
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: yes it is
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I'm a dragon
* [15:24] Rex Cronon: :)
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: and I get a REAL birthday this year too!
* [15:24] Homeless: yeah, if too many holidays there would end up being one year long no change window
* [15:24] Moundsa Mayo: I'm a draggin' Dragon!
* [15:24] Oskar LindenOskar Linden is turning 9
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: awesome
* [15:25] Homeless: will you be promoted to 4th grade?
* [15:25] Moundsa Mayo: Will you get a new pony, Oskar?
* [15:25] Flip Idlemind: 28 more years and you'll be able to sign up for Second Life
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: hmm rl ponies are not for me
* [15:26] Moundsa Mayo: Maybe a pony keg?
* [15:26] Gooden Uggla: .me start planning the party build, will look for mesh stripper poles
* [15:27] Theresa Tennyson: And what's WRONG with non-mesh strippers?
* [15:27] Homeless: obsolete
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: too flat
* [15:27] Rex Cronon: those have less detail?
* [15:27] Theresa Tennyson: Hey!
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: *ducks*
* [15:28] Jonathan Yap: Are we out of subjects to discuss?
* [15:28] Flip Idlemind: So when do I get to teleport people with scripts!
* [15:28] Gooden Uggla: new maint-server i s next?
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: something came up on my end that I have to take care of
* [15:28] Homeless: The last item in the agenda we can't talk about so I guess we're on it
* [15:28] Maestro Linden: yep, there's another one coming up, Gooden
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: maestro can you finish this meeting for me please?
* [15:28] Gooden Uggla: do tell
* [15:28] Maestro Linden: well, there was the one that got rolled back this week
* [15:28] Maestro Linden: and there's another one after that
* [15:28] Maestro Linden: sure Oskar
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: so the new one is DRTSIM-123 on aditi
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: Features
Improved performance for the following functions in LSL scripts compiled to Mono:
llList2List
llDeleteSubList
llGetListEntryType
llListInsertList
llListFindList
llListReplaceList
llDeleteSubString
llStringLength
llInsertString
llSubStringIndex
[edit]External Bug Fixes
SCR-121 Entire sim (65,536sq.m.) owned by group, llGetParcelMaxPrims(llGetPos(), TRUE) Returning odd number.
SVC-7348 moving_end() event executes on moving, script-rezzed physical objects
SVC-7443 Telehubs overridden if teleporting a friend/avatar to a region where telehub exists outside of the telehub area
Fixed 1 simulator crash related to the physics engine
Made improvements in code for starting and stopping regions
Internal code improvements with better memory management and more efficient object updates
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: walls of text r so lovely;)
* [15:30] Flip Idlemind: I really REALLY think llSetRegionPos needs a PRIM_REGION_POS flag or similar, for llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and that family
* [15:31] Flip Idlemind: If not immediately, some time before the old posjump is broken / no longer supported
* [15:31] Draconis Neurocam: yay mono improvements
* [15:31] Jonathan Yap: drtsim-123 also has the coarselocation fix I think
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: some of those mono speed improvements are supposedly huge
* [15:31] Flip Idlemind: Coolio
* [15:31] Draconis Neurocam: so we can see when people are actually above us on the mini map jonathan?
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: like 130x faster llList2List, in a benchmark o_O
* [15:31] Draconis Neurocam: wow
* [15:31] Moundsa Mayo: Good - lists are key to any complexity at all in LSL.
* [15:31] Jonathan Yap: yes Draconis, except there is also a viewer change needed that I am working on
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: my eyes glazed over as soon as "viewer change" was mentioned
* [15:33] Maestro Linden: Jonathan, what kind of change are you thinking about, for the coarselocationupdate change to allow high elevations to look right on the minimap?
* [15:33] Jonathan Yap: Maestro, simon fixed the server code that was sending out 0 for high locations
* [15:33] Maestro Linden: apparently the current message only has 8 bits for the z-position of agents
* [15:33] Maestro Linden: ah
* [15:33] Maestro Linden: so it'll be 0xff now? which maps to 1024m I think
* [15:34] Jonathan Yap: the viewer has to deal with this improvement, plus also the case where A and B are both>1020 and show a new icon on the mini map
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: Cool.
* [15:34] Jonathan Yap: It's 255*4 = 1020
* [15:34] Jonathan Yap: In the past the server was sending 0 as a height if you were above 1020
* [15:35] Jonathan Yap: storm-1793
* [15:35] Flame of Jira: [#STORM-1793] Viewer needs to treat all mini-map altitudes above 1020 m as the same height https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1793
* [15:35] Flip Idlemind: I remember spending 15 minutes trying to find a large group of people who were underground as far as my minimap knew ◯.(⁐)
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: things will be much better once both of these changes go through
* [15:37] Moundsa Mayo: You could tell if they were higher than that limit by pulling camera down below ocean level - would pass through green dots to other chevrons.
* [15:37] Flip Idlemind: But yeah, PRIM_REGION_POS (or similar) is required in my opinion. Thoughts?
* [15:38] Theresa Tennyson: Maestro, can you tell us anything about the changes to the inventory system that will mess up old viewers?
* [15:38] Moundsa Mayo: Every PRIM_ flag we can get is useful and resource-conserving.
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: Flip, is your main motivation to guarantee that only 1 object update is sent? (like if you rotated and moved the object)
* [15:38] Draconis Neurocam: flip are you sure you want a single frame delay in slppf?
* [15:39] Flip Idlemind: Yes, that. But also just to make scripting easier. I can, with "posjump" cram a long distance move and a rotation into 1 function
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: that sounds pretty reasonable to me..
* [15:40] Flip Idlemind: Oh gosh, I thought the frame-delay idea was dropped
* [15:40] Draconis Neurocam: you might have never info than i do
* [15:41] Draconis Neurocam: but thats what i remember simon saying last time
* [15:41] Flip Idlemind: Maybe I just assumed it was, because it's so dumb
* [15:41] Draconis Neurocam: its because they want the object to actually get there
* [15:42] Draconis Neurocam: its a single frame, which you wouldnt notice as a warppos replacement, but i guarentee you would notice in a fast slppf loop
* [15:43] Flip Idlemind: Mhmm, that's why I want a non-delayed llSLPPF flag
* [15:43] Draconis Neurocam: good luck with that
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: Ok, just got this from Kelly; he's reluctant to add such a flag, because llSLPP hurts performance too much, especially with large lists
* [15:44] Draconis Neurocam: i think more than anything it uses bandwidth
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: More than the original PRIM_POSITION flag, or the "posjump" hack?
* [15:45] Jonathan Yap: Kelly is not very far away
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: there he is
* [15:45] Flip Idlemind: Hai Kelly
* [15:45] Kelly Linden: I was told there were dreams I could dash here?
* [15:45] Draconis NeurocamDraconis Neurocam points to flip
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: so where were we
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: "* [15:44] Mæstro Linden: Kelly doesn't want to add it because he's mean"
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: heh j/k..
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: * [15:44] Mæstro Linden: Ok, just got this from Kelly; he's reluctant to add such a flag, because llSLPP hurts performance too much, especially with large lists
* [15:44] draconis.neurocam: i think more than anything it uses bandwidth
* [15:45] F L I P: More than the original PRIM_POSITION flag, or the "posjump" hack?
* [15:47] Homeless: what exactly is the "posjump" hack?
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: a means to an end
* [15:48] Flip Idlemind: vector start_pos = llGetPos();
 llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast(!!llGetLinkNumber(), [PRIM_POSITION, <1.304382E+19, 1.304382E+19, 0.0>, PRIM_POSITION, d, PRIM_POSITION, start_pos, PRIM_POSITION, d]);
* [15:48] Kelly Linden: Right now it is just a general concern. llSPPF has a performance issue because we can't split up the work - it is all done at once. With llRegionPos being a separate function we can better control its impact on the region
* [15:48] Maestro Linden: Homeless, it's a method to move >10m in a single script call, that exploits a floating point math bug
* [15:48] Homeless: ok I gotcha. thankx
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: Does the binary value of those numbers translate into something interesting?
* [15:49] Entering god mode, level 200
* [15:49] Avatar ejected.
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: and gone
* [15:50] Kelly Linden: In nearly all cases in practice doing llSPPF(); llRegionPos(); is goign to appear nearly as instant
* [15:50] Flip Idlemind: But...
* [15:50] Flip Idlemind: If you "stop making posjump work"
* [15:50] Flip Idlemind: I'll have to re-do a lot of stuff
* [15:50] Flip Idlemind: Using 2 different functions instead of 1
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: Well Flip, it broke on its own, actually..
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: if certain parcels in the region don't allow object entry, it can't move >10m
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: because it tries to move way out in the northwestern direction before going to the destination
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: warppos has a similar issue, of course; it can't traverse no-object-entry parcels
* [15:52] Flip Idlemind: I have a whole bunch of stuff that I scripted in such a way that I could replace posjump with a PRIM_REGION_POS flag as soon as such a thing existed, which I assumed it would eventually
* [15:52] Kelly Linden: Yes, you will have to use llSPPF and llSetRegionPos if you need to move more than 10m, and no in this case llSPPF will not be the swiss army knife do everything in a single call function.
* [15:52] Rex Cronon: warppost can't go over no-obj-entry?
* [15:53] Kelly Linden: However that argument does not want me to make llSPPF more of a do-it-all-in-a-single-call functino because of the performance concerns already mentioned.
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: waprpos*
* [15:53] Flip Idlemind: Would that really hurt performance more than the current PRIM_POSITION flag that can only move 10m
* [15:53] Kelly Linden: In other words, the primary reason you want it is the primary cause for concern I have against adding it.
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: Hm I thought that was the case. or maybe warppos just can't move directly to the target through hills
* [15:53] Flip Idlemind: warppos and posjump are different though
* [15:54] Rex Cronon: i have had warppos go over parcels with no entry
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: Yeah, what I mean is that neither works very well
* [15:54] Flip Idlemind: And they aren't "official" names either, just names that got applied to two particular hacks
* [15:54] Homeless: What kind of items do you use the hacks for?
* [15:55] Flip Idlemind: Well...
* [15:55] Flip Idlemind: npv
* [15:55] Jonathan Yap: Sit on something to get transported to a new spot
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: u can use them for followers or npv
* [15:55] Flip Idlemind: I use it to move around on this NPV, even if it only moves .1 meters or so
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: I don't wanna have to, in a control event (actually it's in a while loop) check "Hmm? Am I moving more or less than 10 meters this time"
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: And then use the appropriate function
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: Either llSetRegionPos or llSLPPF
* [15:57] Kelly Linden: Then always use llSLPFF
* [15:57] Flip Idlemind: jump.3000
* [15:57] Flip Idlemind: Always?
* [15:57] Kelly Linden: If you don't want to make that choice, always use the one that works regardless of distance. If you want to optimize to only have one call when possible then you will indeed need to figure out the distance.
* [15:58] Jonathan Yap: Kelly, is there a server file that has the lsl function names in the order they were created? The viewer code needs an update for the functions that were added in the last 8 months or so
* [15:58] Jonathan Yap: oops, out of time
* [15:58] Kelly Linden: jonathan - sorry I don't have a publicly distributable one.
* [15:59] Draconis Neurocam: it needs to be automated
* [15:59] Jonathan Yap: Thank you everyone
* [15:59] Flip Idlemind: npv.movespeed.100
* [15:59] Homeless: I noticed the new functions don't turn purple when you have them typed right
* [16:00] Rex Cronon: lsl functions r top secret now;)
* [16:00] Jonathan Yap: That's the issue Homeless
* [16:00] Flip Idlemind: npv.movespeed.8
* [16:00] Homeless: I know
* [16:00] Homeless: they compile ok, but otherwise don't exist.. no tips or anything
* [16:01] Jonathan Yap: Someone inside LL will have to address that
* [16:01] Jonathan Yap: It was done for the packet protocol message file
* [16:01] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [16:01] Draconis Neurocam: jonathan this is the best source, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Server_Release_Notes some of the ones not in the source are even from pre single number server versions though
* [16:02] Flip Idlemind: I really hope "posjump" won't be officially broken for as long as there's no way to officially move more than 10 meters in llSLPPF
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: Hm, I have a list from June of LSL functions/constants that are missing in the viewer
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: of course we've had new stuff since then
* [16:03] Maestro Linden: the public release notes could fill the gap, I'd think
* [16:03] Jonathan Yap: Rather than going through release notes, etc it would be better to have a semi-automated update system
* [16:03] Maestro Linden: ... as draconis said
* [16:03] Jonathan Yap: I'll bookmark that page and look at it tomorrow
* [16:03] Rex Cronon: tc everybody. i g2g
* [16:04] Grid Crash Protection Box: Homeless Resident, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: Alright guys, thanks for coming!
* [16:04] Draconis Neurocam: take care everyone
* [16:04] Moundsa Mayo: Oskar, Maestro, Kelly, thanks for your time!