Open Source Meeting/2007-09-27

Open Source Meeting for September 27, 2007
[14:00]	Rob Linden: 	hi folks
[14:00]	Rob Linden: 	by all means
[14:00]	Sivart Lockjaw: 	haha can u guess my rl name?
[14:00]	Prospero Linden gets all of his Robs confused (partly 'cause he is one) 	Prospero Linden gets all of his Robs confused (partly 'cause he is one)
[14:00]	Soft Linden: 	Silvart O'Lockjaw. *sage nod*
[14:01]	Rob Linden gloats about snagging "Rob Linden" 	Rob Linden gloats about snagging "Rob Linden"
[14:01]	Soft Linden: 	Hey hey, Celierra
[14:01]	Celierra Darling: 	Hi, Soft! :)
[14:02]	Squirrel Wood: 	Sorry Celierra, but I prefer to get people to know a bit better before accepting friendship :)
[14:02]	Sivart Lockjaw: 	hello wyn.
[14:02]	McPhenius Swain: 	Sorry for landing
[14:02]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Hello
[14:02]	McPhenius Swain: 	Hias again Soft
[14:02]	Wyn Galbraith is having sitting problems. 	Wyn Galbraith is having sitting problems.
[14:02]	Prospero Linden: 	I don't think these cushins are scripted
[14:02]	Soft Linden: 	Hey!
[14:02]	Prospero Linden: 	Second life : where flying is easy and sitting is hard :)
[14:02]	Iridium Linden: 	Herro Avatar.
[14:03]	Sivart Lockjaw: 	mcphenius my college's mascot is the anteater.
[14:03]	McPhenius Swain: 	LOL
[14:03]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Finally
[14:03]	McPhenius Swain: 	so much for my originality :)
[14:03]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Had to turn off flight assist.
[14:04]	Soft Linden: 	And Dale too!
[14:04]	Sivart Lockjaw: 	i love looking at all the gorgeous costumes
[14:04]	Dale Glass: 	hiya :-)
[14:04]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Hi Lindens et al
[14:04]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Who did build those seats?
[14:04]	Prospero Linden: 	Howdy
[14:04]	Q Linden: 	hey, all
[14:04]	Rob Linden: 	so....why is it that people are so shy about adding stuff to the agenda here, but have no problem mailing large volumes of text to sldev?
[14:04]	Squirrel Wood: 	Lindenmania ^^
[14:04]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Alberto Linden
[14:04]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Go kick him, they are not working. .P
[14:04]	Prospero Linden will come in one year and add scripts to all the cushins if he feels *really* bored one day :) 	Prospero Linden will come in one year and add scripts to all the cushins if he feels *really* bored one day :)
[14:05]	Squirrel Wood: 	The name's Linden. James Linden. Royal agent. ;)
[14:05]	McPhenius Swain: 	Hey Quie
[14:05]	McPhenius Swain: 	*Qie
[14:05]	Prospero Linden: 	Heh
[14:05]	Jason Swain: 	hehe
[14:05]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL Squirrel.
[14:05]	Iridium Linden: 	lol
[14:05]	Rob Linden: 	since no one has added anything: first order of business: who owns putting together a real agenda for next week?
[14:05]	Rob Linden: 	volunteers?
[14:06]	Qie Niangao promises to introduce the Lindens to the wonderful world of llSitTarget one day 	Qie Niangao promises to introduce the Lindens to the wonderful world of llSitTarget one day
[14:06]	Dale Glass: 	about adding to the agenda, that requires planning. Posting to sldev is nice and easy :-)
[14:06]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL
[14:06]	Squirrel Wood: 	Hmm... this would be a good test for me MultiSeat ring thing...
[14:06]	McPhenius Swain: 	How's it going Enus
[14:06]	Rob Linden: 	volunteers to own next week's agenda?
[14:06]	Tillie Ariantho: 	I have no idea what's going on in detail, so I cant do it. .P
[14:06]	Soft Linden: 	And so "Add items here" becomes the agenda. :)
[14:07]	Enus Linden: 	hi McPhenius...
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	rather: "a volunteer" to own next week's agenda?
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	anyone?
[14:07]	Dale Glass: 	heh :-)
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	anyone?
[14:07]	Gigs Taggart: 	beuller?
[14:07]	Soft Linden: 	Maybe we could ask this - what types of discussions have been more helpful in open source meeting form than in sldev discussions?
[14:07]	Got Boa: 	my first visit, so I'm gooing to abstain :)
[14:07]	Wyn Galbraith volunteer'd for cat herding and where has that gotten her? 	Wyn Galbraith volunteer'd for cat herding and where has that gotten her?
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	I keep asking that
[14:07]	JetZep Zabelin: 	hi
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	I'm not going to ask that again. I want the volunteeer to ask that
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	anyone?
[14:08]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Where do the details for the agenda come from, usually?
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	sldev
[14:08]	Dale Glass: 	Well, if there's no agenda, what is the status of the caps thing? My impression was that for example the request that was discussed to get info about sims was still in development
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	the idea is to use this to close the loop on long threads on sldev
[14:08]	Tillie Ariantho: 	I can try, but I can not guarantee anything. .P
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	Dale: I'm setting the agenda now
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	...and I still don't have a volunteer
[14:08]	Dale Glass: 	ah, ok
[14:09]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I'd volunteer but my future participation may be off for the month of October. I might be out of town for a couple of weeks. So can't promise to be here.
[14:09]	Gigs Taggart: 	yeah yeah, I'll do it :P
[14:09]	Rob Linden: 	hooray!
[14:09]	Gigs Taggart: 	:P
[14:09]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Yeah Gigs!
[14:10]	Gigs Taggart is the agenda slut 	Gigs Taggart is the agenda slut
[14:10]	Iridium Linden loves Gigs. 	Iridium Linden loves Gigs.
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	just for this week, at least
[14:10]	Wyn Galbraith loves Gigs too. 	Wyn Galbraith loves Gigs too.
[14:10]	Gigs Taggart: 	for this meeting for next week right?
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	we all love Gigs
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	Gigs: correct
[14:10]	Q Linden: 	maybe we can create the Agenda Stick and the owner gets to carry it. :-)
[14:10]	Gigs Taggart: 	ok good :)
[14:10]	McPhenius Swain: 	First time here, so I will pay attention and volunteer another time
[14:10]	Wyn Galbraith: 	As a matter of fact I may have to leave this meeting early, picked up a part time temp QA job.
[14:10]	Sivart Lockjaw: 	same with me
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	here's how I'd like to do this....keep an eye out for those threads that don't seem to close, and push them to the agenda
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	at the end of the meeting, we'll save time to figure out who's next, though hopefully we can find that person in advance
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	ok...moving on
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	Dale, your topic:
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	can you restate?
[14:12]	Dale Glass: 	Yeah, I posted some time ago about converting sim keys to sim names
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	ah, righto
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	(fog starts to lift)
[14:13]	Dale Glass: 	Discussion on the list came up about a message that converts key to region handle, then a request to the caps server to go from handle to the sim name
[14:13]	Rob Linden: 	have a link to your post?
[14:13]	Dale Glass: 	searching
[14:13]	Rob Linden: 	k....in the meantime, I can say what I remember about this topic
[14:13]	Gigs Taggart: 	that's for... the IM spammer locater.. right?
[14:13]	Dale Glass: 	so anyway, my impression was that at the time this wasn't done yet, and the details of how it'd work weren't finalized yet
[14:13]	Dale Glass: 	yeah, that
[14:13]	Rob Linden: 	as I recall, someone had figured out how to do it based on the new map api
[14:14]	Rob Linden: 	it was a cap.secondlife.com url
[14:14]	Rob Linden: 	...and there was some confusion over whether or not that was the "right" way of doing things
[14:14]	Gigs Taggart: 	if it is possible then there is a FIXME in the IM code for god mode that can be fixed too.
[14:15]	Soft Linden: 	So I don't remember anyone committing to creating a proper interface for it... did that happen?
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	nope
[14:15]	Dale Glass: 	I remember the best thing I got was an URL that returned output suitable for javascript
[14:15]	Dale Glass: 	but the viewer would be much better off with LLSD
[14:16]	Rob Linden: 	Dale: did you find that link?
[14:16]	Q Linden: 	and there was debate about the fact that it requires some form of id, and we need a "nobody linden" for using like that
[14:16]	Rob Linden: 	(this is why a predetermined agenda is *so* handy)
[14:16]	Q Linden: 	the topic of the messsages was "New viewer released with logging of the owners of speaking objects and their location"
[14:16]	Dale Glass: 	Rob, searching my archive
[14:16]	Rob Linden: 	the mail from rdw I think was the proper response
[14:16]	Gigs Taggart: 	right, I'd say this is pretty hot, IM spamming griefing objects are impossible to trace right now.
[14:17]	Gigs Taggart: 	when you get hit with it you are *helpless*
[14:17]	Squirrel Wood: 	especially when they change their name several times a second.
[14:17]	Gigs Taggart: 	yeah
[14:17]	Dale Glass: 	my viewer alreday has this functionality
[14:17]	Dale Glass: 	but imperfect
[14:18]	Dale Glass: 	ok, I searched my local archive, so no web link. Quote from Soft here:
[14:18]	Dale Glass: 	"Strike that - this conversation is still going on at LL... Apparently someone hard-coded their own caps in the map javascript. The same point stands about being careful with sharing caps URLs, but in this case it's not Harold's login that's the one being used willy nilly. :)"
[14:18]	Rob Linden: 	what date was that?
[14:18]	Dale Glass: 	So from that I gather that at the time of that discussion things weren't fully fleshed out yet
[14:18]	Rob Linden: 	Dale: what date was that
[14:19]	Q Linden: 	rdw's summary / response was on 9/6, title "Capabilities URLs"
[14:19]	Soft Linden: 	The conversation that was going on was about what login was revealed there, not about the parent issue of needing an interface for getting region names.
[14:19]	Dale Glass: 	Sept 4
[14:19]	Rob Linden: 	https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2007-September/004472.html
[14:19]	Rob Linden: 	there's the best and most accurate answer that I'm aware of
[14:20]	Q Linden: 	Seems like the question of a published map API is still open, though.
[14:20]	Gigs Taggart: 	brb fresh client :P
[14:21]	Rob Linden: 	yes....two issues were left dangling:
[14:21]	Rob Linden: 	1. documenting the thread on the wiki
[14:21]	Dale Glass: 	Right. So question is, is this API being stabilized (I gather it was in flux based on disagreements between docs that say you've got to request a list of what you can access and that hardcoded URL)
[14:21]	Rob Linden: 	2. stabilizing the api
[14:21]	Dale Glass: 	And, can I request that service to be implemented in a form that returns LLSD to make it move viewer friendly?
[14:22]	Rob Linden: 	answer: there's no firm plan to stabilize this api. I'd suggest filing a SVC feature request in JIRA
[14:23]	Dale Glass: 	Well, more exactly. The docs say that I've got to send a request to get a list of services I can access under my account, then use the keys provide there to make the queries
[14:23]	Soft Linden: 	I'd suggest submitting your patch, leaving a stub function where the API call would be needed, with a note to that effect. I think this would be a popular enough issue, and if it carried some votes, it would be easy for a developer to justify spending time on the API call.
[14:23]	Dale Glass: 	But what I got is a key from some Linden (forget who) which wasn't listed absoltely anywhere to my knowledge
[14:23]	Dale Glass: 	that's inconsistent
[14:24]	Dale Glass: 	hmm, ok, that sounds good, thanks :-)
[14:25]	Squirrel Wood: 	/ao off
[14:25]	Squirrel Wood: 	/ao on
[14:25]	Rob Linden: 	cool....anything else on that topic?
[14:26]	Gigs Taggart: 	soft as I mentioned the caps call was always kinda planned anyway, the IM code in the client mentiones it for God mode IM location lookups
[14:26]	Gigs Taggart: 	so someone already kinda wanted it :P
[14:27]	Soft Linden: 	You might file a JIRA pointing out the thing hacked in the client too. Internally we pretty much all work from JIRAs. It's easy for something like that to sit forever if it's not documented where we get our tasks.
[14:27]	Gigs Taggart files a jira with grep -r FIXME|HACK attached :P 	Gigs Taggart files a jira with grep -r FIXME|HACK attached :P
[14:27]	Soft Linden: 	Cleaning that up, or clearing the server side of Dale's patch would make good tasks for someone getting started with web services.
[14:27]	Soft Linden: 	You joke, but there would be some merit to that, especially if you find any that look dangerous or hacky. :)
[14:27]	Gigs Taggart: 	oh wait there's a 10 meg limit :P
[14:28]	Rob Linden: 	lol
[14:28]	Gigs Taggart: 	I've been dehackifying the ones I come near if I can
[14:30]	Rob Linden: 	ok....I'll propose another topic. Architecture Working Group. How many people here have looked carefully at that stuff?
[14:30]	Rob Linden: 	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture Working Group
[14:30]	Rob Linden: 	oops: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture_Working_Group
[14:31]	Got Boa: 	vading through it... trying to understand ;)
[14:31]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I've looked at some, but not finished yet.
[14:31]	Rob Linden: 	just on a logistical front; we could really use some help not just reading and providing feedback, but doing the work of cleaning up formatting and presentation of that material
[14:31]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Of the material on wiki?
[14:32]	Rob Linden: 	yup. this has the potential to be some pretty heady stuff
[14:32]	Celierra Darling starts working on a little of that :P 	Celierra Darling starts working on a little of that :P
[14:32]	Jason Swain: 	Is anybody aware of an issue where prims in a linked set stop responding to llSetPrimitiveParams/SetLinkPrimitiveParams after a number of calls of these functions ?
[14:32]	Soft Linden: 	It's definitely going to grow in detail. Getting a nice outline organization and hanging things off of it would keep it manageable.
[14:33]	Gigs Taggart: 	as you refactor I think it would be good to take the blue sky stuff and put it in one pile, and the down to earth stuff and put it in another :P
[14:33]	Tillie Ariantho too already working on the wiki pages. .) 	Tillie Ariantho too already working on the wiki pages. .)
[14:33]	Gigs Taggart: 	some of these topics are getting a little divergent
[14:33]	Rob Linden: 	if we do our jobs right, this will be the starting point for what we submit to standards bodies
[14:33]	Iridium Linden: 	And this was only the first session ...
[14:34]	Wyn Galbraith: 	She lives!
[14:34]	Iridium Linden listens 	Iridium Linden listens
[14:34]	Soft Linden: 	There would also be merit to moving these docs to their own name section in the wiki so they don't pretty much take over. Page names like "User Stories" are really bad because they don't tell you anything about the context.
[14:34]	Wyn Galbraith listens too, mostly ;) 	Wyn Galbraith listens too, mostly ;)
[14:35]	Rob Linden: 	not that any such submission is emminent, but we should be taking a look at what folks like the IETF, OASIS, or W3C expect to see in the documents, and make sure we cover that ground somehow
[14:35]	Wyn Galbraith could keep an eye on the wiki formating. "Doesn't look that bad at the moment. 	Wyn Galbraith could keep an eye on the wiki formating. "Doesn't look that bad at the moment.
[14:35]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Sorry I'm distracted, got to leave soon.
[14:35]	Q Linden is not sure that the wiki needs to be that formal yet 	Q Linden is not sure that the wiki needs to be that formal yet
[14:35]	Gigs Taggart: 	Zha had good insight there, we should look for small platform bits like chttp that can be submitted as non-3d-world related standards
[14:35]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Yet?
[14:36]	Tillie Ariantho: 	if you want to make it formal later it is LOTS more work.
[14:36]	Squirrel Wood: 	Definitely needs a nut cache for the less sane stuff ;)
[14:36]	Gigs Taggart: 	that way we can build this from the bottom up on standards ... standards on standards
[14:36]	Q Linden: 	tillie, point taken
[14:36]	Wyn Galbraith: 	He said formatting not formal, Tillie.
[14:36]	Rob Linden: 	check this out: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/
[14:37]	Celierra Darling: 	(I think we're hitting the wiki too hard... :p )
[14:37]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Wyn: whatever. Later it will be too late.
[14:37]	Iridium Linden: 	wow
[14:37]	Gigs Taggart: 	I would if copy and paste worked in the linux SL client :P
[14:37]	Dale Glass: 	Gigs, it does
[14:37]	Rob Linden: 	what we have evolve toward something like the W3C doc I just linked to
[14:37]	Gigs Taggart: 	not for me :P
[14:37]	Gigs Taggart: 	not in chat history at least
[14:38]	Tillie Ariantho: 	Wyn: and he said formal. .P
[14:38]	Dale Glass: 	works fine for me here
[14:38]	Qie Niangao: 	(fine here too)
[14:38]	Wyn Galbraith was referring to this quote: [14:31] Rob Linden: just on a logistical front; we could really use some help not just reading and providing feedback, but doing the work of cleaning up formatting and presentation of that material	Wyn Galbraith was referring to this quote: [14:31] Rob Linden: just on a logistical front; we could really use some help not just reading and providing feedback, but doing the work of cleaning up formatting and presentation of that material
[14:38]	Prospero Linden: 	Cut and paste from the Linux client to elsewhere works *sometimes* for me; I haven't found a patten, but haven't looked systematically.
[14:38]	JetZep Zabelin: 	just needs to be organized... not formal
[14:38]	Tillie Ariantho was replying to [14:35] Q Linden is not sure that the wiki needs to be that formal yet 	Tillie Ariantho was replying to [14:35] Q Linden is not sure that the wiki needs to be that formal yet
[14:38]	Gigs Taggart: 	prospero, same, it does work now and then :P
[14:39]	Iridium Linden: 	Cut it out, kids.
[14:39]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Exactly JetZep.
[14:39]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Ok ok mom. :)
[14:39]	JetZep Zabelin: 	Wiki page names can contain spaces and characters so that can help make things clear and organized
[14:39]	Soft Linden: 	With Mac, it seems to not paste to 8-bit ascii, but pastes to unicode okay. I think there may be a handler that needs to be written for things not supporting more complex text types.
[14:39]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Iridium needs a whip.
[14:39]	Q Linden: 	no, she doesn't.
[14:40]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL
[14:40]	Iridium Linden has one. 	Iridium Linden has one.
[14:40]	Q Linden: 	too tempting
[14:40]	Rob Linden: 	Q: not all of the wiki needs to be formal like this, but we absolutely need to collaborate on standards-grade reference material
[14:40]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Too late.
[14:40]	Iridium Linden agrees with Rob. 	Iridium Linden agrees with Rob.
[14:40]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I can look at that Rob. I've done a lot of document formatting.
[14:40]	Q Linden: 	true dat...I was trying to say that during early debate, forcing a formal structure might limit debate
[14:40]	Rob Linden: 	Talk pages are for debate
[14:41]	Q Linden isn't a wikipedian 	Q Linden isn't a wikipedian
[14:41]	Q Linden: 	but willing to learn
[14:41]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Doesn't need to be formal just needs to be organized.
[14:41]	JetZep Zabelin: 	right wiki talk pages :) /me is a former wikipedian
[14:41]	Rob Linden: 	it's perfectly fine to have holes in the document for open issues
[14:41]	Iridium Linden: 	Rob can you think of a formatting example that would be ideal?
[14:41]	Iridium Linden: 	Something already in the wiki?
[14:41]	Rob Linden: 	this actually isn't as much a wikipedia experience issue as it is a standards body experience issue. Neither is rocket science
[14:42]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Goes perfect with Cat Herding then.
[14:42]	Gigs Taggart: 	And I don't think it's going to kill us to defer this issue
[14:42]	Rob Linden: 	Iridium: I think a good example is.....(finding link)
[14:43]	Rob Linden: 	I like how this page has started: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Proposed_Architecture
[14:43]	Iridium Linden: 	I see.
[14:43]	Rob Linden: 	let me look up an example of a good "work in progress" spec, though
[14:44]	Iridium Linden: 	Yeah, it might help if we had some kind of crude formatting blueprint.
[14:44]	JetZep Zabelin: 	with a wiki it kind of ends up how everyone agrees (consensus)
[14:44]	Gigs Taggart: 	that's a fallacy
[14:44]	JetZep Zabelin: 	ya but thats how wikis work
[14:44]	Gigs Taggart: 	it's a persistocracy
[14:44]	Rob Linden: 	check this out: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#activation
[14:44]	Gigs Taggart: 	whoever is the most persistant wins :P
[14:45]	Celierra Darling: 	Is it okay if I mesh the (non-userpage) "...Meeting 1..." articles into a subpage of Meeting 1's agenda (or something) - I don't want to move pages from under people editing them...
[14:45]	JetZep Zabelin: 	Gigs, right and the one with the most buddies
[14:45]	Rob Linden: 	note the "Big Issue" boxes in the middle of otherwise defined prose
[14:45]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Got it.
[14:45]	Rob Linden: 	debating the "big issue" should be saved for the talk page, but identifying the big issue is good for inline
[14:46]	Iridium Linden: 	Ah, kk.
[14:46]	Rob Linden: 	we'll probably have to come up with templates and such.
[14:46]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Ok got to go if I want to get to this temp job in time. So you'll post this log right?
[14:47]	Rob Linden: 	there's also going to come a point, I'm sure, where someone here at Linden Lab is going to have to wield an axe of justice on the material
[14:47]	Gigs Taggart: 	or a whip of Iridium
[14:47]	Rob Linden: 	Wyn: sure
[14:47]	Iridium Linden: 	Yus
[14:47]	Wyn Galbraith fears. 	Wyn Galbraith fears.
[14:48]	Wyn Galbraith will be good and poofs. 	Wyn Galbraith will be good and poofs.
[14:48]	JetZep Zabelin: 	you have to, or it never ends
[14:48]	Celierra Darling: 	Rob - sounds like a job for templates like or the Message Templates on Wikipedia? *goes to find examples*
[14:48]	Gigs Taggart: 	no, please
[14:48]	Gigs Taggart: 	the LSL wiki is all over templatified
[14:48]	Squirrel Wood: 	? ^^
[14:48]	Gigs Taggart: 	don't do that to this too
[14:48]	Celierra Darling: 	Gigs - Don't worry, I won't :P
[14:48]	Rob Linden: 	well, I think some templates would be good, but I agree multi-layer templates aren't desired
[14:49]	JetZep Zabelin: 	templates are really only necessary for pages that repeat information and things like that
[14:49]	Gigs Taggart: 	alias for
[14:49]	JetZep Zabelin: 	lol
[14:50]	JetZep Zabelin: 	you'll need some templates
[14:50]	Rob Linden: 	templates can be good little inline alert boxes
[14:50]	Celierra Darling: 	Jetzep - actually, I'd use them for consistant marking too... It'd be nice to use the What Links Here to find all the Big Issues
[14:50]	Dale Glass: 	reminds me, try :help! in vim some time :-)
[14:50]	Gigs Taggart: 	hehe
[14:51]	Rob Linden: 	so....I think we've covered that topic pretty well. go forth and edit
[14:51]	Celierra Darling: 	Gigs - don't worry, I won't make everything one big template like Strife... (there's a reason he's the major contributor...)
[14:51]	Iridium Linden: 	lol
[14:51]	Gigs Taggart: 	hehe
[14:51]	Gigs Taggart: 	yeh no one knows how to use the templates but him :P
[14:51]	Iridium Linden trusts Celierra. 	Iridium Linden trusts Celierra.
[14:52]	Iridium Linden: 	btw, Strife? Not human. Superbot.
[14:52]	JetZep Zabelin: 	so far i haven't noticed any editor problems with the wiki, but what happens when a group of people start trying to own articles is the SL wiki going to have mediation and all that?
[14:52]	Gigs Taggart: 	Yeah I think so.
[14:52]	Rob Linden: 	incidently, if someone wants to do a little simplification on the LSL pages, I'd be very supportive
[14:52]	Gigs Taggart: 	and incur the wrath of strife?
[14:52]	Gigs Taggart: 	:)
[14:52]	Tillie Ariantho: 	rob: simplify?
[14:52]	Rob Linden: 	JetZep: yes, we'll mediate
[14:53]	Rob Linden: 	put an alert on my talk page if things seem to be getting out of hand somewhere
[14:53]	Squirrel Wood: 	turn the techy-geeky wordings into homer simpson readable text? ^^
[14:53]	Tillie Ariantho: 	uh oh
[14:54]	Tillie Ariantho: 	I saw someone added at least an exaple to MANY LSL pages today.
[14:54]	Celierra Darling: 	Rob - If you're talking about the editing process on the LSL pages, I've already tried, in the first few weeks of the LSL portal :p
[14:54]	Rob Linden: 	Tillie: some of the templates are excessively complicated
[14:54]	Tillie Ariantho: 	example
[14:54]	Gigs Taggart: 	Rob: but only if the flame war is less than 10,000 words, right? Otherwise we have to go to SF? :P
[14:54]	Iridium Linden: 	lol, Gigs. You just miss us.
[14:54]	Tillie Ariantho: 	rob: oh, okay.
[14:54]	Gigs Taggart: 	</obscuretosjoke>
[14:55]	Gigs Taggart: 	yeah getting hammered and roaming around in the wilderness just isn't the same
[14:55]	Rob Linden: 	Celierra: I think now that the wiki has been out there a while, it's fair to revisit.
[14:55]	Soft Linden: 	Nice, Gigs :>
[14:55]	Celierra Darling: 	(This was my fully unfinished attempt... :P http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Function_Style/Celierra_Darling )
[14:55]	JetZep Zabelin: 	I couldnt register to the wiki with my sl name and password, i'll try again today
[14:55]	Celierra Darling lets the topic drift back to Archtecture >.>) 	Celierra Darling lets the topic drift back to Archtecture >.>)
[14:56]	Gigs Taggart: 	If I could do a quick aside since this was a major thread on the list more or less
[14:56]	Rob Linden: 	Go for it Gigs
[14:56]	Gigs Taggart: 	my snapshot patch is mostly done, I worked on it all night last night which is why I'm probably incoherent at this point.
[14:56]	Rob Linden: 	which patch is this?
[14:56]	Gigs Taggart: 	the paint the bike shed thread
[14:56]	Gigs Taggart: 	I wound up doing a combo box with png, bmp, and jpeg
[14:57]	Soft Linden: 	(Saving snapshots to other than BMP format)
[14:57]	Rob Linden: 	oh, righto
[14:57]	JetZep Zabelin: 	registering to the WIki says incorrect password, who do I talk to about that?
[14:57]	Gigs Taggart: 	patch should be up today or tomorrow for review, I had to ... refactor some stuff :)
[14:57]	Tillie Ariantho: 	yeh, 5 MB snapshots suck. .P
[14:57]	Rob Linden: 	JetZep: private IM me
[14:57]	Gigs Taggart: 	tillie, pngs are running around 1.2megs
[14:57]	JetZep Zabelin: 	k
[14:57]	Macintosh Tokyo: 	I have 35 MB snapshots...
[14:58]	Gigs Taggart: 	so about 20% of the size
[14:58]	Tillie Ariantho: 	gigs: better. :)
[14:58]	Gigs Taggart: 	the speed hit is negligible also
[14:58]	Rob Linden: 	very cool
[14:58]	Tillie Ariantho: 	macintosh: woah, you running a 50" TFT? .P
[14:59]	Gigs Taggart: 	there is one little thing I might need feedback on, I'm going to make ctrl-` PNG-only, is everyone here ok with that? :P
[14:59]	Macintosh Tokyo: 	3360x1050
[14:59]	Prospero Linden: 	PNG is probably the best transport lossless format nowadays.
[14:59]	Celierra Darling votes yes >.> 	Celierra Darling votes yes >.>
[14:59]	Soft Linden: 	Sure wouldn't mind PNG default. Might be a good rx question, though.
[14:59]	Q Linden: 	Gigs, why not make it an option?
[15:00]	Gigs Taggart: 	Q, on the snapshot *floater* it is
[15:00]	Rob Linden agrees with Soft 	Rob Linden agrees with Soft
[15:00]	Gigs Taggart: 	ctrl-` is the ... quick snapshot
[15:00]	Q Linden: 	yes...but I mean adding an option to specify it
[15:00]	Rob Linden: 	Gigs: how about making ctrl-` use whatever had previously been used?
[15:00]	Prospero Linden: 	Default to PNG on the floater, CTRL-` uses whatever is set on the floater?
[15:00]	Prospero Linden: 	Oops, Rob beat me.
[15:00]	Gigs Taggart: 	right
[15:00]	Gigs Taggart: 	that's the other option
[15:00]	Got Boa likes that Rob 	Got Boa likes that Rob
[15:00]	Gigs Taggart: 	it will take more refactoring :P
[15:01]	Celierra Darling *cough* thinks Gigs is tired of working on it :p 	Celierra Darling *cough* thinks Gigs is tired of working on it :p
[15:01]	Gigs Taggart: 	because the ctrl-` code can't get to the enum with my formats in it right now
[15:01]	Gigs Taggart: 	anyway if you all think that's the way to go
[15:01]	Gigs Taggart: 	I can do it
[15:01]	Celierra Darling gives chocolate chip cookie to Gigs? >.> 	Celierra Darling gives chocolate chip cookie to Gigs? >.>
[15:01]	Q Linden: 	Hate to shove more work on you, but yeah, seems like the right solution.
[15:01]	Gigs Taggart: 	hehe
[15:01]	Rob Linden: 	I'd run that by Ben and company before spending time on it
[15:02]	Gigs Taggart: 	I think 3 people suggesting it means it's a no-brainer
[15:02]	Gigs Taggart: 	so I'll go ahead and do that
[15:02]	Gigs Taggart: 	just got to juggle some scope
[15:02]	Gigs Taggart: 	maybe bug soft a little on that :P
[15:02]	Iridium Linden: 	Yup, that's something that requires Ben's stamp.
[15:02]	Q Linden: 	but if someone's going to merge it internally, it needs rx to look at it
[15:02]	Gigs Taggart: 	oh yeah
[15:03]	Gigs Taggart: 	I mean I don't think rx needs to decide on this particular detail before I submit it to them :P
[15:03]	Q Linden: 	sorry, folks, gotta run. Thanks!
[15:03]	Iridium Linden: 	Bye, Q!
[15:03]	Rob Linden: 	ok....well thanks everyone for coming, and thanks Gigs for volunteering to do the agenda next week (be sure to be aggressive about passing off the baton as part of the process)
[15:03]	Gigs Taggart: 	they will be looking at the final patch closely I'm sure
[15:03]	Q Linden: 	come to my office hrs!
[15:03]	Soft Linden: 	When are your hours, Q?