Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.06.12

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.06.08	Next 2012.06.15
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	AnnMarie Otoole 	Arcane Laval
Baker Linden 	Crysknife Dagger 	DrFran Babcock
HUD v2 	Jonathan Yap 	Kelly Linden
Kennylex Luckless	MartinRJ 	Melvin Starbrook
Motor Loon 	Nalates Urriah 	NikoKito Aries
Qie Niangao 	Questar Utu 	Rex Cronon
Scorch Braveheart	Simon Linden 	Slee Mayo
Stat Map 	TankMaster Finesmith	Wuf Shirabyoshi
Yuzuru Jewell 	 	
== Transcript ==
[12:01] NikoKito Aries: welcome Andrew
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Hello.
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello Andrew.
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Baker Linden will be joining us too, in a couple minutes.
[12:01] Motor Loon: yaay Baker for president!
[12:01] NikoKito Aries: nice
[12:01] Scorch Braveheart: Ah, interesting.
[12:02] DrFran Babcock: baker is a nice addition to the lab
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[12:02] NikoKito Aries: welcome Rex
[12:02] NikoKito Aries (Q-Translator es->en): Rex welcome
[12:02] Andrew Linden: News: I'm still working on pathfinding... making it easier to edit objects that are part of the navmesh.
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hi nikokito
[12:03] Stat Map: Sandbox Newcomb is down
[12:03] Stat Map: Sandbox Island is down
[12:03] Stat Map: Sandbox Wanderton is down
[12:03] Stat Map: Sandbox Cordova is down
[12:03] Stat Map: Sandbox Goguen is down
[12:03] HUD v2: Sandbox Island Extension is down
[12:03] Slee Mayo: woah, all went down
[12:03] DrFran Babcock: ooops, Sandbox fail
[12:03] Scorch Braveheart: That doesn't seem too likely...
[12:03] Slee Mayo: been like this since rollout this morning
[12:03] Scorch Braveheart: Ah.
[12:03] Andrew Linden: I've got this sticky note on my monitor that says "LSL syntax as a service!" but I haven't been able to work on that in my copious spare time.
[12:03] Motor Loon: yeah I've seen "oddness" after the roll too
[12:03] Motor Loon: more than the usual "oddness" that is
[12:03] Rex Cronon: a new type of attack? or a bug
[12:03] Scorch Braveheart: Oh, are they only reporting that way?
[12:04] Andrew Linden: Yeah, what kind of "oddness" would that be?
[12:04] Scorch Braveheart: Hm, they do seem to be empty.
[12:04] DrFran Babcock: whole sandboxes are being TPed now. ;-)
[12:04] Motor Loon: you got homework Andrew?
[12:04] Slee Mayo: not sure whats happening, but govenor linden showed up and returned everything
[12:04] Scorch Braveheart: That sounds like a rare occasion :p
[12:04] Questar Utu: .. Why are there penguins under the area? o_O
[12:04] NikoKito Aries: rare
[12:04] AnnMarie Otoole: My sim was down 5 hours until I filed a ticket.
[12:05] Rex Cronon: what would a lsl syntax service provide?
[12:05] Andrew Linden: Rex, syntax highlighting info.
[12:05] Scorch Braveheart: Ohhh
[12:05] Rex Cronon: ok. ok
[12:05] Jonathan Yap: Automatic updating of the lsl editor for new funciton hints and coloring
[12:05] Scorch Braveheart: That sounds really interesting.
[12:05] DrFran Babcock: and useful
[12:06] Andrew Linden: Yeah, and it would help LL server-devs too, if we could get it done.
[12:06] Jonathan Yap: Service would be by region, so would always be correct for the region you are in
[12:06] Kelly Linden: Some sandboxes that are part of the PF channel are getting restarted now.
[12:06] AnnMarie Otoole: OOo and add "Search for Selected Text"
[12:06] Motor Loon: You're a patient girl Ann
[12:06] Rex Cronon: can u add one more thing that should provide? like ability to save script locally in file with extensiol ".lsl"?
[12:07] Kelly Linden: Rex: that is pretty tangential
[12:07] NikoKito Aries: welcome baker
[12:07] NikoKito Aries (Q-Translator es->en): baker welcome
[12:07] Jonathan Yap: Rex, have you heard about the external editor feature?
[12:07] Baker Linden: Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late
[12:07] Rex Cronon: what do u mean jonathan
[12:07] Rex Cronon: hi
[12:07] DrFran Babcock: hello, Baker
[12:07] NikoKito Aries: not problem, welcome
[12:07] Jonathan Yap: Rex, you can define an external editor to use for lsl editing
[12:07] Motor Loon: ey baker
[12:07] Jonathan Yap: It is a debug setting
[12:07] Rex Cronon: ok. thanks. didn' know that
[12:07] Scorch Braveheart: Hm.
[12:07] Andrew Linden: Really? Like a VI window?
[12:08] Jonathan Yap: yes
[12:08] Scorch Braveheart: oh, barebones :
[12:08] Scorch Braveheart: :p
[12:08] Jonathan Yap: Debug setting is ExternalEditor
[12:08] Nalates Urriah: Firestorm has it exposed in there controls. Makes for easy round trip to LSLEditor.
[12:08] Andrew Linden: hrm... if we come up with an LSL syntax service, maybe we should provide an LSL.vim service too.
[12:09] Nalates Urriah: Where is Ima?
[12:09] Jonathan Yap: Someone said the other day they wanted to have the tooltip for a function paste-able. How about using middle mouse click for that?
[12:09] Baker Linden: So for news, I discovered that I inadvertently created an issue with my fix for SVC-4444. I have a good idea of what to do to prevent the issue from happening, so hopefully it will be enabled on release.
[12:09] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4444
[#SVC-4444] Objects become fully permissive when rezzed under certain conditions. - with Repro
[12:09] Jonathan Yap: (Yes, a viewer change)
[12:10] NikoKito Aries: welcome Kenny
[12:10] Motor Loon: so it was fixable after all?
[12:10] Baker Linden: this hasn't been deployed yet, so it's not a huge worry.
[12:10] Andrew Linden: That is, our permissions bug fix introduced new permissions bugs. It needs more work.
[12:10] MartinRJ: great idea, Jonathan!
[12:11] Scorch Braveheart: Huh.
[12:11] DrFran Babcock: crowded here today
[12:11] NikoKito Aries: best good people here
[12:11] Motor Loon: am I going nuts or is someone clapping constantly?
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Simon, any relelase news?
[12:12] Andrew Linden: Ok well I guess the table is open.
[12:12] Simon Linden: Sorry, I'm getting pulled into some LL stuff
[12:12] Scorch Braveheart: Maybe that bear burning the magic boxes?
[12:12] Simon Linden: This weeks' release info is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2012-06-11/td-p/1567063
[12:13] Slee Mayo: oh, did last weeks rollout disable teleportagentglobalcoords in magnum sandbox?
[12:13] Slee Mayo: i can't get it to compile
[12:13] Kelly Linden: Yes, llTeleportAgent and llTeleportAgentGlobalCoords was part of the Exp Tools project which was pulled from RC
[12:14] Andrew Linden: "teleportagentglobalcoords"? is that a viewer setting/variable?
[12:14] Nalates Urriah: LSL function
[12:14] Rex Cronon: new lsl functions with some unwanted abilities:)
[12:14] Scorch Braveheart: Oh my...
[12:15] Andrew Linden: Oh right. Yeah, I think that LSL function is temporarily disabled.
[12:15] Andrew Linden: It had an exploit bug, so it was disabled until we come up with a fix for it.
[12:16] Slee Mayo: any word on the chat type 9 fix?
[12:16] Andrew Linden: Why would one want an LSL function's tooltip pastable?
[12:17] Scorch Braveheart: Eh, saves a bit of typing.
[12:17] Kelly Linden: Slee: it is in the queue
[12:17] Andrew Linden: It is mostly description.
[12:17] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, so you can then delete the dummy variable and fill it in with your own
[12:17] Andrew Linden: You mean just paste the rest of the call?
[12:17] Scorch Braveheart: And hovering over the tooltip to get the function description to show up
[12:17] Scorch Braveheart: Yeah
[12:17] Andrew Linden: Oh right, it has the arguments listed.
[12:17] MartinRJ: exactly, so you can paste the code
[12:17] Qie Niangao: right
[12:17] Motor Loon: ooh that would actually be real nice
[12:17] Scorch Braveheart: yeah, I think so.
[12:17] Rex Cronon: too much typing right now
[12:17] Andrew Linden: ok, so ideally it would past that part but not any description afterwards
[12:18] Scorch Braveheart: Yeah, that sounds about right.
[12:18] Qie Niangao: (same for events, actually)
[12:18] Jonathan Yap: ideally yes, but I would rather go back and delete the description than have to type it all like I do now
[12:18] Rex Cronon: maybe the user should be able to choose?
[12:18] Motor Loon: so like you type 'listen' and with a click you get listen( integer channel, string name, key id, string message ){ ; }
[12:18] Jonathan Yap: stop pasting after last ")"
[12:18] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hi folks
[12:18] Motor Loon: yeah
[12:18] Rex Cronon: hi
[12:18] Motor Loon: wow... that would be super clever
[12:18] NikoKito Aries: welcome Wuf
[12:18] Scorch Braveheart: I can't even begin to describe how useful that might be.
[12:19] Motor Loon: I can... it'd be SUPER SUPER SUPER useful
[12:19] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:19] AnnMarie Otoole: I suggested adding those parameters to the (useless) drop down list on the LSL edit window last meeting. It is otherwise a useless list.
[12:19] Motor Loon: ...what Ann said
[12:19] Wuf Shirabyoshi wonder what would be super, super, super
[12:19] Jonathan Yap: The dropdown list would be a good place to do that from
[12:19] Jonathan Yap: that way you type nothing
[12:20] Alpha: Hello, Avatar!
[12:20] Kelly Linden: The drop down list is useful to me. :( I often just forget the name of the function I need.
[12:20] Motor Loon: never ever used that dropdown list as it is now... not like I cant remember the commands... its usually what comes after them
[12:20] AnnMarie Otoole: Adding the parameters would not make it less useful :)
[12:20] Scorch Braveheart: Yeah, i have to make the tooltip show up at least a few times.
[12:21] Motor Loon: or simply a "Command complete" button
[12:21] Rex Cronon: i don't find lsl functions that hard, what it seem harder is that u have to remember all the parameters
[12:21] Motor Loon: indeed
[12:21] Nalates Urriah: I like the tool tips in LSLEditor. THey are the reason I like it over the viewer's builtin editor.
[12:22] Andrew Linden: yeah, command autocomplete... it can be done and is pretty handy
[12:22] Andrew Linden: er... it has been done in other editors
[12:22] MartinRJ: for me the drop down list is useful too
[12:22] Nalates Urriah: I like autocomplete over a list
[12:22] Motor Loon: and if you're fooling around with the internal editor anyway
[12:22] Jonathan Yap: command autocomplete is coming in a way, the LL viewer is getting Firestorm's autocomplete function
[12:22] Motor Loon: I'd love to see a CHAR COUNT
[12:22] Rex Cronon: this is a very usefull page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_Functions
[12:22] Slee Mayo: what is a good up to date 3rd party lsl editor?..i've always just saved my script to notepad
[12:22] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:22] Scorch Braveheart: Which one would be that? I'm not very familiar.
[12:23] Motor Loon: I recently hit the max. chars in a few of my scripts... and took me a while to figure out what the problem was
[12:23] Scorch Braveheart: Ack, my fingers are not cooperating.
[12:23] Rex Cronon: crimson editor is quite good IMO
[12:23] Nalates Urriah: Slee, LSLEditor is the most frequently updated one I know of.
[12:23] Slee Mayo: ty
[12:23] Andrew Linden: Motor, what is the symptoms when you exceed the script character limit? Just failure to compile?
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: what is the max chars limit?
[12:23] Andrew Linden: er... what are the symptoms
[12:23] Motor Loon: actually no
[12:23] Motor Loon: much worse
[12:24] Motor Loon: the editor started to LOOSE parts of my code
[12:24] Motor Loon: in the end of the script
[12:24] Rex Cronon: it doesn't say that your code is too big:(
[12:24] Jonathan Yap: does it just truncate at the end?
[12:24] Andrew Linden: Oh, the character limit is part of the viewer's script editor?
[12:24] Motor Loon: took me A LONG TIME to figure out it was because I had hit the 65K or whatever max. number of chars
[12:24] Scorch Braveheart: How many characters did you type...?
[12:24] Motor Loon: 65.000 or whatever the limit is
[12:24] Scorch Braveheart: 65k...
[12:25] Motor Loon: yeah i know... its a big script
[12:25] Jonathan Yap: I bet that number is hardcoded in the xml file
[12:25] Rex Cronon: does it take into consideration comments too?
[12:25] Wuf Shirabyoshi: have you looked under your monitor?
[12:25] Motor Loon: but once you knew the problem... it was just a matter of cleaning up and removing some comments here and there
[12:25] Motor Loon: yeah, all chars are counted
[12:25] Scorch Braveheart: Sounds like a lot of ifs, huh.
[12:25] Motor Loon: must be real simple to add a little counter on the editor showing currently number of chars used in the script
[12:25] Kelly Linden: Motor: how recently was that incident?
[12:26] Motor Loon: last week or so
[12:26] Motor Loon: mabye just a few days ago... i dunno... I tend to loose track of time ,-)
[12:26] Kelly Linden: hunh. I coulda swore I upped the limit to 128k sometime this year.
[12:26] Jonathan Yap: Is a character 8 bits or how do you count unicode characters?
[12:26] Scorch Braveheart: 65k seems a bit arbitrary.
[12:26] Motor Loon: nope... its 65k still, I even tested it later on
[12:26] Kelly Linden: 64k + 1k 'slop'
[12:26] Jonathan Yap: Motor, does the truncation occur only after you push Save?
[12:27] Slee Mayo: could 3rd party viewers be overiding the new limit you set kelly...via xml settings?
[12:27] Kelly Linden: Slee: shouldn't be. I only touch server code anyway.
[12:27] Rex Cronon: btw seems that multiple ifthanelse can lead to problems
[12:27] Motor Loon: no jonathan... but might be related to copying/pasting stuff around after hitting the limit
[12:27] Motor Loon: or the paste of codeparts causing you to hit the limit
[12:27] Motor Loon: whatever
[12:27] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ifthanelse?
[12:28] Motor Loon: regardless, it was not easy to understand what the problem was
[12:28] Scorch Braveheart: I've never had any issues with it, but then again, I don't think I'd ever get to that particular number.
[12:28] Motor Loon: yeah... biiiig scripts
[12:28] Rex Cronon: if(x==0){}else if(y==1)....
[12:28] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i put things in different scripts, then you don't need that many characters
[12:28] Motor Loon: couple of thousand lines with plenty of comments
[12:28] Scorch Braveheart: Takes more memory though...
[12:28] Wuf Shirabyoshi: though i wonder how many lines it would be
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: potentially
[12:29] Motor Loon: depend on how long each line is Wuf
[12:29] Wuf Shirabyoshi: avarage...
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: :P
[12:29] Melvin Starbrook: birdy is sitting in smoke
[12:29] Yuzuru Jewell: multiple scripts make increase of LI, doesn't it?
[12:29] Andrew Linden: I thought it was not possible to nest use "else if" in LSL. That is, there is no such thing as "else if" in the syntax, just "else"
[12:29] Wuf Shirabyoshi: what's LI?
[12:29] Scorch Braveheart: Oh, you can use else if
[12:30] Andrew Linden: LI = land impact
[12:30] Motor Loon: else if works fine
[12:30] Yuzuru Jewell: Land Impact
[12:30] Wuf Shirabyoshi: oh no
[12:30] Kelly Linden: hunh. I did find the limit I adjusted for scripts. It is FAR bigger than 65k. Maybe it *is* a viewer limit
[12:30] Wuf Shirabyoshi: what linden do you use motor?
[12:30] Motor Loon: 1 big scripts is usually better than 2 halfsized ones
[12:30] Rex Cronon: soon enough u might see little tool that among other things allows to remove comments and also tells u size of your lsl code:)
[12:30] Kelly Linden: Ah yeah, if you hit the server side limit you'd get a message about it being too big.
[12:30] Motor Loon: what linden... err... I use Kelly alot... except on sundays
[12:30] Kelly Linden: but 65k is way too small.
[12:30] Kelly Linden: I bet it is the viewer script editor?
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:31] Jonathan Yap: Kelly, I was just looking, did not find a limit in my quick search
[12:31] Motor Loon: may have been using Firestorm at the time
[12:31] Motor Loon: mabye
[12:31] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[12:31] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:31] Wuf Shirabyoshi reads back
[12:31] Wuf Shirabyoshi: what viewer do you use motor?
[12:31] Jonathan Yap: maybe it is a default on the editor box when that is created
[12:31] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ah
[12:32] Motor Loon: Firestorm, Exodus and occasionally LL development
[12:32] Wuf Shirabyoshi blushes
[12:32] Scorch Braveheart: Eh, what file might that limit be in, or is it hardcoded?
[12:32] Rex Cronon: if(x==0){}else if(y==0){} else if(z==0){} else if...
[12:32] Rex Cronon: u nest them. similar to switch
[12:33] Motor Loon: well, regardless of what the limit is... I'd still think a shown count would be real neat-o
[12:33] Andrew Linden: huh, alright. For some reason I thought "else if" didn't work.
[12:33] Andrew Linden: Which means I've been unecessarily avoiding them for years.
[12:33] Slee Mayo: it works
[12:33] Andrew Linden: You learn something new every day.
[12:33] Wuf Shirabyoshi: aww
[12:33] Rex Cronon: :)
[12:33] Scorch Braveheart: Pretty handy if you have a value that changes in one of your preceding ifs.
[12:33] Wuf Shirabyoshi: how did you workaround then?
[12:33] Wuf Shirabyoshi: else { if?
[12:33] Andrew Linden: yup
[12:33] Scorch Braveheart: returns work, or that.
[12:33] Rex Cronon: but there seems to be a limit to its length
[12:33] Andrew Linden: but then, I don't script a whole lot
[12:34] Kelly Linden: yeah the editor seems to have a pretty small limit
[12:34] Jonathan Yap: Did you find the place Kelly?
[12:34] Motor Loon: I think when you reach the limit you'd often run outa script memory anyway... unless you comment alot (which I sometimes do)
[12:35] Motor Loon: I mean... you'd run out of script memory before hitting the char limit often
[12:35] Motor Loon: probably why it hasn't happend for me before
[12:35] Rex Cronon: the workaround is to start a new list of nested ifs
[12:35] Scorch Braveheart: I don't think I've exceeded the script memory in mono without a stack-heap collision.
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: in mono?
[12:36] Scorch Braveheart: Hm.
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: indeed, Hm
[12:36] Motor Loon: (cool icebreath Arcane btw hehe)
[12:36] MartinRJ: \indra\newview\skins\default\xui\en\panel_script_ed.xml
[12:36] MartinRJ: there's a limit of 65k
[12:36] MartinRJ: I bet this is it
[12:36] Arcane Laval: (thanks motor)
[12:36] Kelly Linden: yup
[12:37] Kelly Linden: just found that too
[12:37] Kelly Linden: max_length="65536"
[12:37] Motor Loon: wiki said that too yeah
[12:37] Kelly Linden: in panel_script_ed.xml
[12:37] Jonathan Yap: what is the server limit now?
[12:37] Kelly Linden: Huge
[12:37] Rex Cronon: lets make it 1Mb:)
[12:37] Scorch Braveheart: Huh, that was fast O.o;
[12:37] Kelly Linden: Set the viewer to 1Mb, sure.
[12:37] Motor Loon: 128k would be more than anyone would ever ever need I'm sure
[12:37] Kelly Linden: ever.
[12:37] Kelly Linden: set it to a meg
[12:37] Motor Loon: and ever
[12:37] TankMaster Finesmith: im sure some said that about 64k :P
[12:38] Scorch Braveheart: XD
[12:38] Jonathan Yap: First we would have to see if the size can go over 65535, maybe the editor window cannot handle more than 65535
[12:38] Rex Cronon: oh. so its a viewer limitation, i thought the server was doing the limitation
[12:38] Slee Mayo: could lists be increased...the amount they can hold?
[12:38] Kelly Linden: The larger texts are good for those meta editors/languages that have huge comments etc.
[12:38] Scorch Braveheart: I thought they could grow as big as script memory allows while it's running...
[12:38] Kelly Linden: The server has a limitation that this is not getting anywhere close to hitting.
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi: well if you can change it
[12:39] Andrew Linden: especially since viewers already clamp it at 65k
[12:39] Motor Loon: all those comments wont be in the compiled code anyway
[12:39] Jonathan Yap: Motor, change the number on your install and see what happens
[12:39] Motor Loon: its usually that more than anything that takes up chars
[12:39] Motor Loon: yeah Ill give it a try
[12:39] MartinRJ: great:)
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi: make a jira about it, and mention the workaround. Allthough it's a viewer thing, it might not work on all viewers
[12:40] Motor Loon: cleaned up my script now, so I'd be ok for a while though
[12:40] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hee, that's even a better workaround...
[12:40] Wuf Shirabyoshi quickly nots
[12:40] Jonathan Yap: Motor, if it does work let me know (and the jira number too) and I will put the change through the system
[12:40] Qie Niangao: Before we had /* and */ it was a lot harder to make so many characters of comments. :p
[12:40] Motor Loon nods
[12:40] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:40] Motor Loon: I still just use //
[12:40] Jonathan Yap: Also attach test script to jira
[12:41] Kelly Linden: So I was looking at SCR-79
[12:41] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-79
[#SCR-79] llMatchGroup() - Checks if an object or agent is active in a specified group.
[12:41] Scorch Braveheart: eh?
[12:41] Scorch Braveheart: I didn't know we had that style of comments, hm.
[12:41] Motor Loon: "is active"?
[12:41] Scorch Braveheart: Where have I been, I wonder.
[12:41] Wuf Shirabyoshi: oh yes, a test script
[12:41] Wuf Shirabyoshi: does anybody has a test script?
[12:41] Kelly Linden: And it turns out I believe I can easily tell if a group is visible in the profile or not in the sim, for agents that are near by. So I was considering an alternate solution
[12:42] Rex Cronon: u might be experiencing time dilatation, due to an event horizon:)
[12:42] Kelly Linden: Which is list llGetAgentGroups(key agent_id) that returned a list of all groups the agent is in that are showing in their profile.
[12:43] Nalates Urriah: That would be handy
[12:43] Kelly Linden: But it wouldn't tell you their active group.
[12:44] Jonathan Yap: Would it be a list of names or UUIDs?
[12:44] Qie Niangao: That's interesting... although this hidden group thing cuts both ways. If the function will ignore hidden groups, it may pressure folks not to hide groups they'd otherwise not want to show, except to get the darned function to work.
[12:44] Motor Loon: I think people are more interesting in knowning if they are a member of a certain group - rather which one they current have active
[12:44] Rex Cronon: some scripts do need to know if user is in a specific group or not, even if is not listed
[12:44] Wuf Shirabyoshi: or both
[12:44] Kelly Linden: I considered fixing llGetObjectDetails to work for agents IF their active group was showing in their profile.
[12:44] Motor Loon: for vendors giving discounts for certain groups and such
[12:44] Wuf Shirabyoshi agrees with motor
[12:45] Motor Loon: often a problem having the vendor in the same group as is supposed to get the discount
[12:45] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i'd love to make a script, that makes a choise, depending if people are in a group rather than having the group active
[12:45] Motor Loon: may not be the same group as the land is set to
[12:45] Motor Loon: I do see the "only is they have not chosen to hide the group" problem
[12:45] Qie Niangao: but yeah, being able to get the list of groups would be a lot simpler than having to coach the user to maybe change their active group.
[12:45] Motor Loon: privacy and all that
[12:46] Rex Cronon: qie. u still need to tell the user to change their active group
[12:46] Motor Loon: dont even need the list... just being able to check if they are a member of this group's key...
[12:46] Kelly Linden: I could do both, but there is a little bit of information leak in the llGetObjectDetails / active case because it is not currently possible to get the active group ID of another person.
[12:46] Qie Niangao: Rex, not if I understand Kelly's suggestion.
[12:46] Kennylex Luckless: Quick question here, Baker linden looks like he is eaten by the chair, do all see him so or do I bug tith V3?
[12:46] Wuf Shirabyoshi: yes
[12:47] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i don't see the need, to see all the groups an avatar is in, except for things like spam
[12:47] NikoKito Aries: bad chair
[12:47] Scorch Braveheart: It's a carnivorous chair.
[12:47] TankMaster Finesmith: probably his AO
[12:47] Motor Loon: yeah the chair ate baker
[12:47] Kennylex Luckless: Oki doki.
[12:47] Kennylex Luckless: https://my.secondlife.com/kennylex.luckless/snapshots/4fd79b3582ea7d653e000001
[12:47] NikoKito Aries: ^^
[12:47] NikoKito Aries (Q-Translator es->en): ^ ^
[12:47] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi you are right
[12:47] Andrew Linden: hrm... we wouldn't want to expose hidden groups, but maybe an object could be allowed to query one hidden group of an agent if that object was owned-by or affiliated-with that group
[12:47] Nalates Urriah: I'm using 3.3.2 (258114) today and he is sunk in the chair
[12:47] Melvin Starbrook: silly chair
[12:47] Motor Loon: oh... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-111
[12:47] JIRA-helper: [#SCR-111] llDialog buttons don't say anything after teleporting to another sim
[12:48] Motor Loon: any chance on this oooldie
[12:48] Kelly Linden: Andrew: we have that already, with llSameGroup
[12:48] Rex Cronon: if an object and a user r in the same group, shouldn't the object always be able to know if the user is a member of the group?
[12:48] Kelly Linden: This is primarily to address objects that would care about multiple groups. Currently complicated collections of unlinked scripted objects are needed in that case.
[12:48] Andrew Linden: ah ok
[12:48] Motor Loon: perhaps ok for the object to know if the person is a member of group X... if the object owner also is a member of that?
[12:49] Motor Loon: would that be ok privacywise?
[12:49] Qie Niangao: (where those collections of objects preclude auto-return parcel setting)
[12:49] Kelly Linden: So, it would be possible to do llAgentInGroup(key agent, key group) that returned true if they were in that group and the group was listed in their profile
[12:49] Wuf Shirabyoshi: it's not allways handy to have the object in the same group, specially if it serves 2 different groups
[12:49] Kelly Linden: Motor: not possible (easy) to see at runtime what groups the owner of an object is in if they are not also present in the region
[12:49] Wuf Shirabyoshi: yes kelly
[12:49] Wuf Shirabyoshi: that would be great!
[12:49] Motor Loon: problem is alot of people like to hide all their groups
[12:49] Scorch Braveheart: Well that seem a bit pointless.
[12:50] Motor Loon: or atleast might know how it could be a potential problem with such a feature
[12:50] Kelly Linden: Then they will not be able to interact with these objects.
[12:50] Kelly Linden: They would have to fall back to llSameGroup and setting a group active
[12:50] Motor Loon: that might make the entire feature useless then
[12:50] Wuf Shirabyoshi: what?
[12:50] Kelly Linden: It seems like it would still have use to me.
[12:50] Scorch Braveheart: Oh, I mean hiding groups.
[12:50] Scorch Braveheart: All of them...
[12:50] Rex Cronon: would it be possible to make something like a locator that tells u if somebody near u is in the same group as u?
[12:50] Scorch Braveheart: Seems a bit silly.
[12:50] Motor Loon: wouldnt it be ok go verify group member ship of group X - if object owner was also a member, despite if the group was hidden on the avatars profile?
[12:51] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i'd love that feature llAgentInGroup
[12:51] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but kelly, it should work for hidden groups as well then
[12:51] Crysknife Dagger: i dont see what is so bad about querying the active group even if it is hidden, it is just a simple yes no, not much that can be gleaned that would be damaging
[12:51] Motor Loon: I think so too... if it dont work for hidden groups... I fear it may be useless when it comes down to using it
[12:51] Andrew Linden: Motor, that is what I was saying, but we already have llSameGroup()
[12:51] Kelly Linden: Motor: We can not tell at runtime what groups the object owner is a member of.
[12:52] Rex Cronon: if a script belongs to me and i am in the same group as other person, my script should be able to tell me that the other person is in same group. no?
[12:52] Motor Loon: ah
[12:52] Motor Loon: ok
[12:52] Kelly Linden: Rex: as long as you set the group on the object you can do that already with llSameGroup
[12:52] Scorch Braveheart: I am fairly sure it acts on what group the object is owned by.
[12:52] Motor Loon: yeah if the script cant get the info --- then there's no way to do it
[12:52] Rex Cronon: i don
[12:52] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i'd love to serve 2 groups at the same time
[12:53] Rex Cronon: i don't want to set my object to all my groups. i mean i cant
[12:53] Kelly Linden: Right. But we can't tell at script runtime what groups you (as object owner) are a member of.
[12:53] Kelly Linden: unless you are logged in and in the same region. Otherwise it requires a DB lookup.
[12:53] Rex Cronon: if we get list of groups that i am member of...
[12:54] Kelly Linden: I don't think we want to attach a list of all groups a person is a member of to all objects in world.
[12:54] Scorch Braveheart: Eheh.
[12:54] Kelly Linden: that seems excessive.
[12:54] Motor Loon: on the other hand.... this would likely MOST be used for vendor setups in stores - the store might want to discount products or whatnot for member of a support group (which may very well not be the same as the stores landgroup) and I guess the store would PREFER they had the group shown in profile anyway... lol...
[12:54] Motor Loon: so mabye it's ok for usage
[12:55] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ah yes
[12:55] Wuf Shirabyoshi: great example motor
[12:55] Rex Cronon: we coudl have llSameGroup(uuid gropkey, uuid otherKey)
[12:55] Motor Loon: despite only working for non-hidden groups
[12:55] Motor Loon: that it aint same group rex
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:56] Rex Cronon: if is one of the same groups that i the owner i am part of
[12:56] Motor Loon: llAgentInGroup is probably a good command name
[12:56] Wuf Shirabyoshi shakes her head
[12:56] Wuf Shirabyoshi: rex,
[12:56] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i don't want to set the group on the object
[12:56] Rex Cronon: i don't either
[12:56] Wuf Shirabyoshi: maybe the object must be in the land group, while i want to check another group
[12:56] Motor Loon: so comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-111 before we run outa time?
[12:56] JIRA-helper: [#SCR-111] llDialog buttons don't say anything after teleporting to another sim
[12:57] Qie Niangao: I'm not crazy about the function having to query each time, to find out if the owner is currently in whatever group it's trying to test.
[12:57] Rex Cronon: this can get quite comples
[12:57] Rex Cronon: complex*
[12:57] Motor Loon looks at baker and crosses fingers;-)
[12:57] NikoKito Aries: ^^
[12:57] NikoKito Aries (Q-Translator es->en): ^ ^
[12:57] Wuf Shirabyoshi refuses to see how baker is being eaten
[12:57] Kelly Linden: If you want to check a group other than the one the object is set to, I think it will have to follow the 'visible in profile' option.
[12:58] Baker Linden: Apparently that is not simple :)
[12:58] Motor Loon: ooh if it was simple - it's not be a challange... and if it aint a challange... whats the fun then?
[12:58] Scorch Braveheart: Rex, the response to a dialog is basically chat, is it not?
[12:58] Baker Linden: I never said I wouldn't look at it :)
[12:58] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ok, but is it possible then, to check hidden groups, if the object is in the group as well then?
[12:59] Motor Loon: we all heard it!
[12:59] Andrew Linden: good psychology Motor. But Baker knows the answer. It is called "working on permissions bugs" ;-)
[12:59] Baker Linden: I have some other things I should fix first, but I can always at least take a look at it.
[12:59] Motor Loon: yeah
[12:59] Motor Loon: ok
[12:59] Kelly Linden: Wuf: only if it is active and you use llSameGroup
[12:59] Rex Cronon: hmm. i was talking about groups, but by the time i pressed enter...
[12:59] Motor Loon: those are important too
[12:59] Baker Linden: a.k.a. working on permissions bugs
[13:00] Motor Loon makes a note to ask again after the perm bug fix
[13:00] Baker Linden: especially since I need to re-fix that which I just fixed :D
[13:00] Wuf Shirabyoshi: *grin*
[13:00] Scorch Braveheart: Agh, that sounds annoying.
[13:00] Scorch Braveheart: I believe I know the feeling.
[13:00] Wuf Shirabyoshi sticks tongue out to baker
[13:00] Motor Loon: refixing the fix for the fix that wasnt fixed with the fix
[13:00] Scorch Braveheart: My mind is sufficiently bent.
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:01] Scorch Braveheart: Are you going to twist my tongue too?
[13:01] Motor Loon: damn... we need more than an hour for these meetings.... /me votes for that
[13:01] Scorch Braveheart: XD
[13:01] Motor Loon: how about you guys come inworld on saturday, and we have meeting all day long?
[13:01] Motor Loon: yeah? good idea? yeah?
[13:01] Wuf Shirabyoshi: @kelly: ach yes
[13:02] Wuf Shirabyoshi: about scripts?
[13:02] Slee Mayo: and have the meeting in sandbox goguen so you can see firsthand what could be fixed/adjusted
[13:02] Scorch Braveheart: Your name suits you, Motor.
[13:02] Scorch Braveheart: :p
[13:02] Wuf Shirabyoshi: diesel engine...
[13:02] Motor Loon: Thank you, I try my best
[13:02] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[13:02] Wuf Shirabyoshi nods
[13:02] Scorch Braveheart: That was pretty interesting.
[13:02] Slee Mayo: thanks
[13:02] Nalates Urriah: Thx Lindens
[13:02] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[13:02] Scorch Braveheart: Yes, thank you all.
[13:02] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today
[13:02] Motor Loon makes trainsounds as he gets ready to hit the track home
[13:02] NikoKito Aries: Thanks very much
[13:02] Kennylex Luckless: Thnx Andrew.
[13:03] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:03] Melvin Starbrook: have a great day all :)
[13:03] Rex Cronon: tc everybody, and have a nice day all:)
[13:03] Scorch Braveheart: Back to the scripts :p
[13:03] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you Lindens.
[13:03] Motor Loon: have fun... cya next week
[13:03] Baker Linden: Thanks for coming! Time to go fix the stuff I just fixed! Enjoy your week.
[13:03] Scorch Braveheart: They call to me!
Simulator_User_Group
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