Open Source Meeting/2010-03-11

== Agenda Thursday, 11 March 2010 ==
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# : create a BINDIST CMake variable for producing (hopefully) legally distributable binaries
#* Pending update from Legal, through Merov: Could we get LL's legal department to cooperate on this one, so we can minimize the guessing on what the required steps are?
# Snowglobe 1.4: bug triaged in the community, tree's open, commits coming?
# Snowglobe 2.0:
#* Snowglobe 2.0 Source code issues, many with patches (see SNOW 2.0 Source Code issues on pJIRA)
== Transcript ==
[14:01]	:	well, I'm smaller, can't talk for the rest of the crowd :D
[14:01]	:	hehe
[14:01]	:	Merov, I was debugging some !standalone issues someone was having with one of my patches. I set up a 32-bit chroot to test !standalone and that how I found it.
[14:01]	:	hope we won't have a region crash in this meeting...
[14:01]	:	salut Merov ㋡
[14:01]	:	Salut Eddi
[14:02]	:	㋡
[14:02]	:	I couldn't attend an LL meeting this morning due to crashes...
[14:02]	:	heheh
[14:02]	:	crash waht is? lol
[14:02]	:	sorry kiddin
[14:02]	:	kidding*
[14:02]	:	Merov, Correct. I do build from sources, but I needed to test a patch of mine on !standalone 32-bit.
[14:03]	:	ok, the agenda is sort of short today
[14:03]	:	not that there's nothing happening really :)
[14:03]	:	rez damn it
[14:03]	:	Merov, I can crash this regine at a radom time for you. ;-D
[14:04]	:	so, first item: what the heck Merov has been doing this week?
[14:04]	:	On demand would be better, random time would suck :P
[14:04]	:	OMG I SO DO NOT KNOW YOU lol
[14:04]	:	eating cookies?
[14:04]	:	xD
[14:04]	:	I havn't done much work on snowglobe due to missing llqtwebkit and the one bug of the missing libfreetype.so.
[14:05]	:	well, a bunch of things
[14:05]	:	i HATE the crahs when the crash is not a result of test ㋡
[14:05]	:	first: I've been wroking on the auto commit of the internal branch to svn. So far, not a success...
[14:05]	:	Snowglobe has stop loading and working for me
[14:06]	:	I'm still working on this right now (like: this morning) and I keep bumping into issues of little interest for this group that have to do with parabuild, the new build scripts, etc...
[14:06]	:	:(
[14:06]	:	"grrr" is my mood right now as I really thought I'd be done by now
[14:07]	:	this is the reason why there's still no "vendor branch" available for viewer-2-0
[14:07]	:	I thought building and exporting where seperate processes?
[14:07]	:	we haven't managed to get the build farm to manufacture extra Merov's yet
[14:07]	:	so don't pummel Q with tar, OK?
[14:07]	:	:)
[14:07]	:	I did find the build script that LL uses to make the bianary libs. Like to find info on the sytem used to build those libs so I can replecate that on my end for testing.
[14:07]	:	lol
[14:07]	 	hugs Aimee ㋡
[14:08]	:	Boroondas: yes and no: the 2 scripts are ran as part of parabuild
[14:08]	:	im using viewer 2 do to it works with my system but i wish some one will build a 64 BIT Viewer PLEASE
[14:08]	:	so success in build is required for export to be triggered
[14:08]	:	Mervo, next time i includ you in the invation ot tiny robot at Q OH :p
[14:08]	:	on the 3 plarforms that build independently
[14:08]	:	"parabuild", please explain whta that is.
[14:08]	:	Merov*
[14:09]	:	Merov, I always wondered why do you need too tie in build into public SVN sync?
[14:09]	:	so there's a "finalize" script.... blablabla... this is *extremelly* boring I'm afraid and there's nothing you can do to help me guys :(
[14:09]	:	Of course we can!
[14:09]	:	people pulling svn trunk know that trunk is not guaranteed to work properly, or even build
[14:10]	:	Merov += cookie
[14:10]	:	Latif: what do you mean?
[14:10]	:	that is how opensource projects work
[14:10]	:	well, im ready to test snow 2.0 with you .. Merov, but i need a vesion more stable ㋡
[14:10]	:	If build needs to be sucess before exporting....um...we are currently fixing a lot of build issues. Chicken and egg issue?
[14:10]	:	why do you need to do a test build in order to sync to externals svn repository
[14:10]	:	ok, wait: we're talking about different builds here
[14:10]	:	if Flash and alpha skin can be added to snowglobe and make snowglobe a 64 bit viewer you will start getting a lot of new users not only coming back to SL but new ones too
[14:10]	:	you said that successful build triggers export
[14:10]	:	I'm talking about the*internal* build of the main viewer 2.0 trunk
[14:11]	:	that's what gets exported
[14:11]	:	the export script is grafted on that
[14:11]	:	that is where I have issues
[14:11]	:	not the build of the svn repo once exported
[14:12]	:	my question was, why tie svn sync export with build tests?
[14:12]	:	so that we don't get stuff that doesn't compile, I guess ...
[14:12]	:	Merov i have find a link to download the vs c++ 2005 , i have installed on my xp laptop i need to test if that thing work great ㋡
[14:12]	:	to ensure a minimum of automation really
[14:12]	:	Hmm...why require build ok when we can fix a lot of those build issues? reemmber all the comments the first few days to fis build issues on snowglboe 2.0?
[14:13]	:	i try to compil an viewer to night ㋡
[14:13]	:	Eddi: there's a link to VS2005 Express somewhere on the wiki
[14:13]	:	there are a lot of reasons why the build can fail, including bogus commits of all sorts
[14:13]	:	Thick, yep but your link go to vs c++ 2008 lol
[14:13]	 	waves a late hello
[14:13]	:	we certainly wants to minimize the export of bogus/broken repo
[14:14]	:	i dont want 2008 ㋡
[14:14]	:	ok, that's one thing
[14:14]	:	hi Pixel and welcome :-)
[14:14]	:	wouldn't it make sense, to export to a branch, test if it builds, and if so, merge into trunk?
[14:14]	:	another thing which is 2.0 and FLOSS related I've been working on is llqtwebkit and qtwebkit
[14:15]	:	otherwise we still risk missing files etc.
[14:15]	:	so, we'll have llqtwebkit source available on a public hg repo, available under the GPL licence, same as the viewer
[14:15]	:	Merov, honestly i need your help in french if i want to compile a viewer with success.
[14:16]	:	hehe
[14:16]	 	Coffee : Hot strong coffee!!
[14:16]	:	the qtwebkit, which, as you know, contains some LL specific patch will be also available but on git (gitorous)
[14:16]	:	and the license will be the same as qtwebkit, i.e. LGPL
[14:17]	:	on git?
[14:17]	:	I think that should make standalone builders happier
[14:17]	:	yes, git instead of hg
[14:17]	:	:-)
[14:17]	:	'cause qtwebkit flavors are all under git
[14:18]	:	ic
[14:18]	:	request for info on the system info that build the libs so i can do the same on my end.
[14:18]	:	it's really important for standalone builders and, also, for FLOSS goodness/requirements
[14:19]	:	Techwolf: the media guys are building a wiki with all that in there
[14:20]	:	another thing we're starting to put together is an hg repo with all the 3rd parties libs patches we use and the build scripts
[14:20]	:	this is still embryonic but moving forward thanks to Brad
[14:21]	:	that's also something that Techwolf (again... :) ) has been asking for for a loooong time :)
[14:21]	:	Maybe we should go into hibernation while you sort all this out. :-) There's a lot going on! :P
[14:21]	:	Speaking of which: I saw Brad had some boost libs for VC90 - any progress on that
[14:21]	:	Oh Brad thank you Brad
[14:21]	:	?
[14:22]	:	well Morgaine: since we are in a transition, this is a good moment to clean up lots of the mess
[14:22]	:	>:-)
[14:22]	:	not glamourous or fun but necessary
[14:22]	:	it's spring after all :)
[14:22]	 	is waiting for the external svn sync to get working and stock viewer source to be made available
[14:22]	:	Maybe we should send along some crates of beer. Or at least a lot of coffee ;-)
[14:22]	:	spring what ?
[14:23]	:	coffee for me thanks :)
[14:23]	:	svn sync every two months is not svn sync lol
[14:23]	 	chuckles
[14:23]	:	Spring Code Cleaning commences
[14:23]	:	Latif: I *know*, see my long rambling at the beginning of the meeting
[14:24]	:	all that delay is due to me really
[14:24]	:	for folder in $allowed_folders; do hg pull $folder; svn commit $folde; done
[14:24]	:	:P
[14:24]	:	I could do a quick "manual" sync so to unblock you guys
[14:25]	:	not necessarily a bad idea mind you...
[14:25]	:	but it's time not spent on doing the right thing
[14:26]	:	so is snowglobe going to be only export, or will we be able do fetch stock trunk branch?
[14:26]	:	it'll be like before, all our branches have always been going through the export scripts
[14:27]	:	there's quite a bit of mandatory clean up that needs to happen
[14:27]	:	that is good news if it materializes. people have made some awesome work meshing up different branches like kirste's viewer
[14:27]	:	like taking kdu out, packaging the llkdu, verify the licensing, etc,,,
[14:28]	:	yeap, this is good, that's why it was important to get *something* at the same time beta came out
[14:28]	:	(is on phone)
[14:28]	:	now I need to keep that updated with a minimum of fuss and cleanly
[14:29]	:	wasn't CG export scritp whisperer? ;)
[14:29]	:	I'm failing on "cleanly" right now
[14:29]	:	oh yes, CG has been helping me a lot
[14:29]	:	he's a great guy
[14:29]	:	normal: he's French :p
[14:30]	:	heh
[14:30]	:	hahaha
[14:30]	:	at least we can swear together without alarming our coworkers
[14:30]	:	i think they know what merde! means :P
[14:31]	:	our vocabulary is *vast* Latif :)
[14:31]	:	Will be nice to eventually see the Viewer2.0 corresponding source code archive posted for each version released under GPL, as was always done with 1.x.
[14:31]	:	Merov, I bet it is :)
[14:31]	:	and juicy :)
[14:31]	:	Morgaine: yes
[14:31]	:	again: that's what I'm working on
[14:31]	:	apologies for the delay
[14:31]	:	perhaps once beta4 is out, a manual sync then?
[14:32]	:	Merov: and i thank u for helping making that happen Merov.
[14:32]	 	waits for someone to rez tar and feathers...
[14:32]	:	lol
[14:32]	:	ℒℴℒ
[14:33]	:	ok, I think that's a rather complete tour of my 2.0 activities this week
[14:33]	:	Perfectly normal that things take time, waiting is not a problem. The "issue" earlier was that it seemed that wasn't the target. No biggie now. :-)
[14:33]	:	Merov: the community's grumpyness about the "vendor branch" wasn't because it was not ready yet, but because some at LL said (even at an event last week while you saying you're working on it) that it's not going to happen.
[14:33]	:	Yeah
[14:33]	:	I know, well, that's cleared, now I need to make it happen
[14:34]	:	and unfortunatly you're the visible Linden involved with open source...
[14:34]	:	Merov, you need to learn to blame everything on Aimee, she was hire specifically for that ;D
[14:34]	:	none thought it was your fault..
[14:34]	:	I'm fine with being the "visible Linden"
[14:34]	:	yup, that's what I'm here for :D
[14:34]	:	hehe
[14:34]	:	hahaha
[14:35]	:	Speaking of which ... is there already a replacement for Rob?
[14:35]	:	alas no :(
[14:35]	:	:(
[14:35]	:	our offer was turned down... I'm bummed!
[14:35]	:	very much so :(
[14:35]	:	it's a hot seat lol
[14:35]	:	Some inappropriate public comments made about the vendor branch, made us think LL had gone sour on GPL in vendor branch. Glad it's debunked.
[14:36]	:	Awww
[14:36]	:	well Merov you need to relax some time ㋡
[14:36]	:	hehe
[14:36]	:	anyhow, we're still looking for a candidate to do this job
[14:36]	:	(( personally i hadnt thought that. ))
[14:36]	:	It's a tad too much for me alone
[14:37]	:	and I'm not the super duper communicator we need, as Robla was
[14:37]	:	Might be very hard to find, a FOSS person who likes paperwork <grin>
[14:37]	:	:-P
[14:37]	:	bribe rob back? :p
[14:37]	:	its very bad i dont have more experiance in code ㋡
[14:37]	:	we need someone was can spell right too Eddi :P
[14:38]	:	ℒℴℒ
[14:38]	:	ok, next on the list: SNOW-495
[14:38]	:	Open source meeting in french from now on?
[14:38]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-495 
[#SNOW-495] BINDIST --- easy way to produce legally distributable binary packages
[14:38]	:	I think Eddi needs to code a spell checker for local chat. :)
[14:39]	:	"J'aime le vin et croissants." Something to do with vi I think.
[14:39]	:	And with Aimee
[14:39]	:	pourquoi pas? lol
[14:39]	:	so, I had a meeting with legal and I don't have more news yet on the "logo" issue
[14:39]	:	LOL
[14:40]	:	I'll be going through the asset though and be deleting the files that show the "hand logo" and that are not used anymore
[14:40]	:	a bunch apparently...
[14:40]	:	lots of cobweb in there...
[14:40]	 	thinks every time Merov's manager wants to punish him, he sends him to a meeting with lawyers.
[14:40]	:	you're right Pixel!
[14:41]	:	ℒℴℒ
[14:41]	:	Merov: they do the same to me.
[14:41]	:	Sigh, Linden Lab Legal used to be the most interesting part of LL.
[14:41]	:	Now it's the most unpalatable part.
[14:41]	:	you've been noughty, 45 min with the legal, now! :P
[14:42]	:	well, they're nice folks and do their job but legal logic is somewhat strange
[14:42]	 	thinks we need an "illegal team" at times
[14:42]	:	LOL
[14:42]	:	Well in this game, your lawyers need to understand the GPL, or they're completely useless. The TPV is just, well, beyond belief.
[14:42]	:	il register for that then Aimee :p
[14:43]	:	so SNOW-495: moving forward, still a good idea IMO
[14:43]	:	end of the day though, they're just trying to protect us and keep us in business as best they know how
[14:44]	:	next: SG 1.4
[14:44]	:	TPV is just silly LOL. You shall display version information on the login screen, or you are in violation :P I'd like to buy a beer to the guy who came up with it, he needs it ;)
[14:44]	:	I haven't seen any commit recently
[14:44]	:	but there are patches pending
[14:44]	:	I triaged some this week
[14:44]	:	I just commited SNOW-551 before the meeting
[14:44]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-551 
[#SNOW-551] -loginuri command line argument converted to lower case
[14:44]	:	Not hard though Aimee. They just need to sit down with it for a week, maybe ask a few questions on GrokLaw, understand the culture, and exactly what the GPL freedoms means. Not hard. Any techie can do it, so can the lawyers.
[14:45]	:	just let merov speak
[14:45]	:	What happened to the team that wrote the "permit-and-proceed" letter? That is all I want to say.
[14:45]	:	Gen++
[14:45]	:	That was a damn cool letter :-)
[14:46]	:	ok, Thickbrick, I suppose that means I should build binaries for 1.4
[14:46]	:	Merov, i've not committed any of my outstanding issues, or done much snowglobing as i've been away on meetings
[14:46]	:	Thank you, Thick
[14:46]	:	Robin: do you plan to commit soon?
[14:46]	 	smiles
[14:47]	:	i think my outstanding issues are 2.0 code base currently, a few build annoyances that you've already commented on
[14:47]	:	Merov: <blush> i haven't shaken my snowglobe in a while either </blush>
[14:47]	:	o, I was talking about 1.4 patches
[14:47]	:	aleric flaged *another* potential SNOW-192 route i need to investigate
[14:47]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-192 
[#SNOW-192] LLSDXMLParser::Impl::parse doesn't ignore unknown tags properly
[14:48]	:	err SNOW-193
[14:48]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-193 
[#SNOW-193] GCC 4.x compiler warnings patches
[14:48]	:	i give up, deadlock issue
[14:48]	:	sNOW-196 ?
[14:48]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-196 
[#SNOW-196] Deadlock in LLTextureFetchWorker::lockWorkMutex / LLThread::lockData / LLTextureFetch::lockQueue
[14:48]	:	yay
[14:48]	:	heh
[14:48]	:	yes that one
[14:48]	 	needs a quick BRB back in a swdc
[14:48]	:	i think the occurance of it is very rare no other reports from anyone so far
[14:49]	:	but worth checking
[14:49]	 	jumps over to aditi, take care you all. merov thanks for all the effort!
[14:49]	:	I read the comments on my SNOW-384 and tried to follow the suggestions and made a new patch and liked the results well enough to share.
[14:49]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-384 
[#SNOW-384] A tool_tip is obscuring our view when typing into the Chat Bar.
[14:50]	:	going to Aditi as well... bye
[14:50]	:	looks like we have a new patch for VWR-12984 from Aleric as well
[14:50]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12984 
[#VWR-12984] 1.23: Water flickers and disappears in patches
[14:51]	 	is back
[14:51]	:	wb
[14:51]	:	ah, and there was me thinking that issue was just due to global warming
[14:51]	:	lol
[14:52]	:	Ardy: I haven't reviewed your patch yet
[14:52]	:	I uploaded a patch there today that takes care of the horizon flickering (due to culling). Aleric is working on water clipping and water level problems.
[14:52]	:	someone else to review? doesn't have to be me reallly...
[14:53]	:	just another pair of eyes from a regular contributor
[14:53]	:	Ardy: you changed stuff only in handleKey(), right?
[14:53]	:	Merov: i thought rules were patches reviewed by commiter, not contributor
[14:54]	:	Pixel: yes, other contributors can review too though
[14:54]	:	anyway, only a committer can commit and he/she better review what's being committed under his/her name
[14:55]	:	ok, makes sense
[14:55]	 	looking at VWR-12984
[14:57]	:	Aleric is doing good job on that :), however look at at his last pic http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/36769/t001_black_planet.jpg independents day is here :p
[14:57]	:	Thickbrick, in draw() too
[14:57]	:	hehe Alexandrea
[14:57]	:	big thing looming over the horizon...
[14:58]	:	mToolTipBlocked was not being used
[14:58]	:	Merov Aleric just sayd this in irc [23:48:50] <Aleric> Almost done with VWR-12984 ... water looks absolutely perfect now.
[14:58]	:	looks like something from "Neuromancer"
[14:58]	:	ℒℴℒ
[14:58]	:	o/ Aleric
[14:58]	:	he's doing a coastline algorithm to find the water level for "hole" water objects
[14:59]	:	currently, it's the default 20m, even if you're on an island with water at another level
[14:59]	:	Nice job Aleric and Thickbrick!
[14:59]	:	so you sometime get water hovering in the air, etc.
[15:00]	:	time check: it's 3pm
[15:00]	:	For those wondering about Geneko's reference to LL Legal's "Permit-and-Proceed" letter, here's the Slashdot post from 3 years ago, was very cool of them -- http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07 /01/31/0216258
[15:01]	:	a that one... I heard about it...
[15:02]	:	http://www.getafirstlife.com/ is down, alas.
[15:02]	:	I guess he did then ^_^
[15:02]	:	lol
[15:02]	:	i'm heading back into the wilds, hopefully my compiler won't die of loneliness, and i'll get back to compiling soon
[15:03]	:	later, guys
[15:03]	:	bye everybody .. grid switch
[15:03]	:	see you Pixel
[15:03]	:	tc
[15:03]	:	ok, I think we're done for today. The word for me is : sync 2.0 damn it!
[15:03]	:	UXIG time
[15:03]	:	Ah, gotta head over to UXIG today
[15:03]	:	s/today/now
[15:03]	:	I think I got the message :)
[15:03]	:	See you all around
[15:03]	:	yes Merov sync! •‿•
[15:03]	:	Keep up the good work Merov ❤
[15:03]	:	Take care Merov. Have fun too, not just work :-)
[15:03]	:	see you peopel
[15:03]	:	and have lot of coffee to :p
[15:04]	:	thanks guys and se you next week :)
[15:04]	:	what? I thought work and fun were the same thing?
[15:04]	:	hehe Aimee
[15:04]	:	damn, I've been getting it all wrong
[15:04]	:	ℒℴℒ
[15:04]	:	depends on the work (or was it the fun?)
[15:04]	:	If work and fun are the same thing for you... I think you have won at life
[15:04]	:	tc Aimee, and all rest
[15:04]	:	bye :)
 
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