Mesh/Archive/2011-06-20

=Agenda=
# It's been stated before that bone length recognition isn't likely to be in the initial main grid deploy. Why is this, when the lengths look right in the preview window? What has to be done in order for this to appear in-world? (Tiberious)
# Any news on CTS-590, adding the override to allow "partial" joint-arrays in collada files ? It seems that several exporters 'optimize`collada files by skipping/excluding joints that are not in use (e.g., in 3dsMax I create boots -> the exporter writes only a partial joint array, ignoring torso/arms/... -> as result these weighted meshed can't be uploaded, 'Upload'-button greys out.) (Marielle Caerndow)
# Update on prim cost. We now see streaming cost is prim cost. How will making the object scripted/physical affect the overall cost? Min stand alone prim cost? Any rough formulas would be helpful. (Gearsawe)
# ...and, Why is the edit floater final cost 2.5 (and str. cst. 1.5) for meshes with Show Render Info str. cst. < 1, and will it stay that way? [Drongle]
# Using a texture with any transparent area on it makes the whole object partially seethrough. Also, it won't react to changing shiny. Is this expected behavior? [Ashasekayi Ra]
# Can you please give us an update on recent progress? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Is there anything in particular you need us to test or focus on? [Vivienne Daguerre]
# Any progress on the crash when trying to upload mesh in Linux (CTS-627)? Are there any flavors of Linux on which mesh uploads are known to work? [Warin Cascabel]
# Can mesh be temp-rez, and if so, how are they costed? [Drongle]
# does "working on it" mean, we have a chance to see this in release 1: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-634 (mesh description file)
# do we have a documentation area in layman's terms yet? [Eleanora Newell]
# Has something changed with the avatar .xml file export recently? ive been trying to import an xml. of my avi into maya but can only use the default mesh obj and unlinked skeleton. From menu: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml [Graf Maxwell]
=Meeting Notes=
==Attendees List==
*Aimee Arcana (aimee.arcana)
*Angel (angel.alphaville)
*arton Rotaru (arton.rotaru)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
*Chodai Yoshikawa (chodai.yoshikawa)
*Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
*Dain Shan (dain.shan)
*Don't Release (donot.release)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
*Gaia Clary (gaia.clary)
*Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)
*Lazy (lazy.spectre)
*Liisa Runo (liisa.runo)
*Maxwell Graf (maxwell.graf)
*Mikki Miles (mikki.miles)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Python Morales (python.morales)
*Ranya Palmer (ranya.palmer)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Tapple Gao (tapple.gao)
*Techwolf Lupindo (techwolf.lupindo)
*TheBlack Box (theblack.box)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday June 20, 2011==
[12:02]	Dain Shan 	Linden invasion ^^
[12:03]	Nyx Linden 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	sorry, tech issue, brb
[12:04]	Nyx Linden 	first topic: It's been stated before that bone length recognition isn't likely to be in the initial main grid deploy. Why is this, when the lengths look right in the preview window? What has to be done in order for this to appear in-world? (Tiberious)
[12:05]	Prep Linden 	Yup, unfortunately bone rotations and scale won't be in for release 1. As for why it appears to work in the preview window for you, I can't say either way without
[12:05]	Prep Linden 	The good news is that I still have the import bone scale/rotations on my radar for a post 1 release.
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next?
[12:06]	Charlar Linden 	#2 Any news on CTS-590, adding the override to allow "partial" joint-arrays in collada files ? It seems that several exporters 'optimize`collada files by skipping/excluding joints that are not in use (e.g., in 3dsMax I create boots -> the exporter writes only a partial joint array, ignoring torso/arms/... -> as result these weighted meshed can't be uploaded, 'Upload'-button greys out.) (Marielle Caerndow)
[12:06]	Prep Linden 	This "partial" flag may longer be needed (positive fallout from another fix :-) ) - so Marielle open up a jira and I'll take a look at it next sprint, or possibly sooner.
[12:07]	Prep Linden 	Label the defect something like "Importing a .dae w/ partial joint arrays should work," and attach an asset or reference a jira that contains an asset for me to work with.
[12:08]	Maxwell Graf 	hey dahlia.
[12:08]	Dahlia Trimble 	hi :)
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	you guys are quiet today :)
[12:08]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	lol
[12:08]	Charlar Linden 	the next two we'll talk about together:
[12:08]	Charlar Linden 	#3 Update on prim cost. We now see streaming cost is prim cost. How will making the object scripted/physical affect the overall cost? Min stand alone prim cost? Any rough formulas would be helpful. (Gearsawe)
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Calculating-quot-Prim-Equivalency-quot/td-p/937343
[12:08]	Drongle McMahon 	We are too shocked by the "server weight" calculation.
[12:09]	Dain Shan 	Totally
[12:09]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	conveniently I added some information to the forums today (see link above)
[12:09]	arton Rotaru 	should we still go with streaming cost, or is the server updated now?
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	basically "prim equivalence" is the highest for download, server, and streaming costs. Whichever factor is highest for your linkset, that's what we charge
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	But Nyx. That bears no relationship to server burden.
[12:10]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It says the URL doesn't work.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	which part of it? each measure correlates to some area that our systems get loaded
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon 	It's the same panalty for 100 complex scripts as for one simple one.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	yep, we're not measuring script time/memory usage with it
[12:10]	Charlar Linden 	Can everyone other than Asha get to the forum link?
[12:11]	Dain Shan 	I can
[12:11]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	yes
[12:11]	Aimee Arcana 	Yup.
[12:11]	Maxwell Graf 	yus
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	its looking only at a very (very) rough measure of how often messages will get sent out to update clients
[12:11]	Gaia Clary 	i can
[12:11]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	What the deuce
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon 	?Too rough.
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	yes
[12:11]	Ranya Palmer 	i just got there
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I made it to the page
[12:11]	Charlar Linden 	asha, can you just try going to the forum - it'll be near the top
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	we reserve the right to improve our measures in the future :)
[12:11]	Mikki Miles 	works for me
[12:11]	Dain Shan 	Certainly it gives sometimes some weired end results
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Sure, I can try
[12:12]	Maxwell Graf 	< Plurked
[12:12]	arton Rotaru 	changing prim counts after main grid release can be probleematic
[12:12]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I really don't think that scripts should add to the prim cost. If you are wanting to put some control on script numbers and memory use, you should find another way to do that. Scripts should not affect prim equivalency.
[12:12]	Vivienne Daguerre 	People will object to this.
[12:12]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	Side note on that Nyx, Do the current numbers inthe EDIT panel represent cost now or is it still streamin cost display?
[12:13]	arton Rotaru 	+1 chodai
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	scripted and physical objects send out more messages, so they cost more for Server cost. If your object has a higher streaming cost, it won't have an effect
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	the streaming cost displays should be reaching parity soonish
[12:13]	Drongle McMahon 	I am adamantly opposed. It is not proportionate and you should be using script limnits anyway. Why penalise meshes discriminatey yet again?
[12:13]	Ranya Palmer 	so whats the limit on a physical mesh cost?
[12:13]	Vivienne Daguerre 	will the scripts affect objects made of sculpties and ordinary prims? Will this break existing content?
[12:14]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Or increase the prim count?
[12:14]	Gaia Clary 	can you explain how you will convince people to use mesh objects when you let them pay pay pay... and keep the costst for regular prims/sculpties down at the same time ?
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	please note the detailed documentation here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Costs_and_fees
[12:14]	Drongle McMahon 	Vivienne. In some caes it can double prim coint.
[12:14]	Maxwell Graf 	but its NEW!
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	I'm pretty clear in which cases the new calculations will be used in the forum post :)
[12:14]	Maxwell Graf 	:D
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer 	You're gonna need a lot more ponies.
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	more ponies are always needed :)
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer 	One for everyone on SL now.
[12:15]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	Nyx::: Does that mean the EDIT window is the one to look at now over the streaming stats?
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	But not a scripted mesh pony....you can't afford it.
[12:16]	Rusalka Writer 	I don't have enough land for an SL pony.
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	Chodai we should be getting the cost in edit tools to agree with the viewer tools soon
[12:16]	Gaia Clary 	i just think about the difference... i understand what you describe in your forum post.... but wouldnt this lead people to try even harder to get away with sculpties instead of moving to mesh ?
[12:16]	Dain Shan 	You realise that, with this, you put Meshes into a niche?
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer 	A pricey niche.
[12:17]	Nyx Linden 	we're working to set the cost of mesh to be a resonable limit based on where the content is loading our systems (and your systems)
[12:17]	Maxwell Graf 	I am currently a sculpty whore. I would like also to be a mesh whore. Why u no make less cost! D:
[12:17]	Drongle McMahon 	Already in a niche. It just got narrower.
[12:17]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	/me chuckles at Max
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer 	Think I'll be focusing on avatars...
[12:17]	TheBlack Box 	maybe it is not such a bad idea to have mesh in a niche while there is still a lot of dev going on ... i recommend patience
[12:17]	Gaia Clary 	but io do not understand how you can say that....
[12:18]	Gaia Clary 	making mesh more expensive and less resource intensive...
[12:18]	Vivienne Daguerre 	would you prefer me to be a mesh whore or a sculptie whore? I can see that I am going to be using sculpties as much as I can the way things are going, over mesh.
[12:18]	Gaia Clary 	that does not get into my head.
[12:18]	Drongle McMahon 	I made a sculpty building component that was 20 x as may triangles as the mesh equivalent but half the prim cost.
[12:18]	Dain Shan 	Agree with Clary here
[12:18]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Not sure what patience has to do with that issue.
[12:18]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I use whatever is best suited for the task at hand
[12:19]	TheBlack Box 	Ashasekayi: patience because it will be easier to lower prim-costs for mesh when they are technically more mature ...
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	Who, TheBlack?
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	There is no guarentee the numbers will be changed after it goes live.
[12:20]	Nyx Linden 	in the interest of keeping things moving along, can we move this conversation to the forum thread for everyone to participate?
[12:20]	Dahlia Trimble 	lower? lol
[12:20]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I worry that if people can upload really really high res meshes what it will do whenthey wear them all on the avatar in crowded situations. So I am cautiously optimistic
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I haven't seen a Linden state that will even occur.
[12:20]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	if it is too cheap it is sure that will happen
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	Who will make the first meshbot?
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	OK, moving to the next item...
[12:21]	Dain Shan 	Hypatia .. they already can do that. You can make attachments that are Super heavy .. with no downside.
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	Using a texture with any transparent area on it makes the whole object partially seethrough. Also, it won't react to changing shiny. Is this expected behavior? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:21]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The numbers penalize non-attached mesh more anyway.
[12:21]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Yes, using a transparent texture will make the entire face transparent unless it's an alpha mask (pixels are all transparent or all opaque) and "automatic alpha masks" is enabled.
[12:22]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hmm... ok. And, this will not change correct?
[12:22]	Ranya Palmer 	is automatic alpha mask a viewer feature?
[12:22]	arton Rotaru 	add more materials Asha
[12:22]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	yes Ranya
[12:23]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yea, I guess I'll have to do that.
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon 	It needs to be a face feature.
[12:23]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Asha: yes, it's under develop->rendering
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden) 	it does need to be a face feature, probably will be in "the future"
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Alrighty thanks
[12:24]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next item:
[12:24]	Charlar Linden 	Can you please give us an update on recent progress? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	been working on making sure the framework for prim equivalency is working. Next up is tweaking the algorithms to make sure they fit our budgets
[12:24]	Dahlia Trimble 	speaking of alpha masking... are all the shaders in the mesh viewer finalized and considered ready for release?
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Streaming cost got tuned a bit and tested -- there are still some cases where items can go over budget, but for those most part the costs seem to be trending the right way. The sim should agree with the viewer on the next sim deploy.
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Dahlia: yes
[12:26]	Tapple Gao 	hi elanora. can you hear?
[12:26]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty
[12:26]	arton Rotaru 	what about a physics cost shown in the uploader?
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(although a huge osx bug just got found and fixed this morning
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer 	Thank you.
[12:27]	Nyx Linden 	we're working on a new layout for build tools to show you physics cost better, we're investigating what to show in the uploader.
[12:27]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	/me ears prick up on the OSX bug being found and wonders what it was
[12:27]	arton Rotaru 	kmthx
[12:27]	Tapple Gao 	osx bug? elenora was unable to login on mac
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer 	I've been crashing as much as I can.
[12:28]	Ranya Palmer 	has the nvidia bug been fixed yet?
[12:28]	arton Rotaru 	crash bug in latest windows build too
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden) 	keep crashing!
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden) 	turn on debug gl to crash more!
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	Tally ho!
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden) 	develop->rendering->debug gl
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	Writing it down...
[12:28]	arton Rotaru 	all meshes needs UVs now
[12:28]	Nyx Linden 	oh also working on the linux crash, but that's its own topic :)
[12:28]	arton Rotaru 	or viewer crashes
[12:28]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	when I check shadow, I can't see upload dialog.
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden) 	arton: e-mail me a .dae that has no UVs and I'll make it work
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	As soon as I get out of this conference, I'll get back to crashing.
[12:28]	arton Rotaru 	I jira it already
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden) 	link?
[12:29]	arton Rotaru 	second
[12:29]	Gaia Clary 	donotrelease : i have sent a jira for this...
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden) 	DoNot Release: that bug is assigned to me, should get to it this week
[12:29]	Ranya Palmer 	i saw that earlier then i crashed
[12:29]	Vivienne Daguerre 	as have I
[12:29]	arton Rotaru 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-648
[12:29]	Gaia Clary 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-636
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	Davep, can I email you one with no UV or normals? It used to upload OK.
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	we <3 example assets that are causing problems :)
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer 	I crash on texture upload sometimes. I'll sort that out.
[12:30]	Maxwell Graf 	Ill send you a .rar. of them, then. lol
[12:30]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	when I check shadows the Mac crashes :(((((
[12:30]	arton Rotaru 	I attached example dae's
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon 	Looked funny though.
[12:30]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	I also uploaded files with 8 materials exported from Maya
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer 	I have shadows on the main grid on the new Search viewer now. That's a pleasant surprise on a Mac.
[12:31]	Charlar Linden 	continuing on...
[12:31]	Charlar Linden 	Is there anything in particular you need us to test or focus on? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	upload upload upload
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	also, please build at or near ground level
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	and leave your stuff rezzed
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	so we can find it
[12:31]	Python Morales 	davep, to test physics with terrain?
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	populate a bunch of content on the regions, the more the better
[12:31]	Python Morales 	ah ust to find
[12:31]	Gaia Clary 	please fix the physics display ;_)
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	should be fixed :-(
[12:31]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	+1 Gaia
[12:32]	arton Rotaru 	fix the physics engine aswell
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	I'm going to fill a region with sculpty pipes.
[12:32]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	but you need shadows to use it...broken on macs in mesh builds
[12:32]	arton Rotaru 	can't drive on mesh/prim roads
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	Gaia - probably later this week
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden) 	shouldn't need shadows any more
[12:32]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	ahhh good :)
[12:32]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	shadows are broken for me too
[12:32]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	and I'm not on mac
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden) 	but could be busted with other mac shader issues
[12:32]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	please also give them meshes with jumbled materials, I posted a link to one at CTS-603
[12:32]	Ranya Palmer 	shadows made me crash :(
[12:33]	Dain Shan 	Allright
[12:33]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	just ATI, win 7 here
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	Shadows sure are purty on main grid.
[12:33]	Dain Shan 	My old 9800GT seems to like the shadows ... So far no crash
[12:33]	davep (runitai.linden) 	yup, working on jumbled materials this week
[12:33]	Ranya Palmer 	Win 7 Nvidia GTX here
[12:34]	Charlar Linden 	next item...
[12:34]	Charlar Linden 	#8 Any progress on the crash when trying to upload mesh in Linux (CTS-627)? Are there any flavors of Linux on which mesh uploads are known to work? [Warin Cascabel]
[12:34]	davep (runitai.linden) 	if you get black screen or crash, try disabling anti-aliasing
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	just posted an update on the linux crasher recently. Its a versioning issue on libxml2
[12:34]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	okay
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	if you update libxml2 on your machine to 2.7.2 its reported to be fixed
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	if we can confirm this, we'll try to bundle a staticly linked version so you don't have to change your system config
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	oh now it works
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	goes to remove my question then
[12:35]	Tapple Gao 	upload works for me on ubuntu. I can post my config to the jira
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	hrm, no
[12:35]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	still no shadows
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	next item...
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	Tapple - could you post that it works for you and what version of libxml2 you have on your system please
[12:36]	TheBlack Box 	on ubuntu libxml2 version currently shows up at 2.7.6
[12:36]	Tapple Gao 	how do I test the version of libxml2? the version apt lists?
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	TheBlackBox - can you upload without crashing?
[12:36]	TheBlack Box 	havent tsted in a while ...
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	#9 Can mesh be temp-rez, and if so, how are they costed? [Drongle]
[12:37]	arton Rotaru 	good question
[12:37]	arton Rotaru 	temp rezzers will be hip when mesh is live
[12:37]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	okay fixed :)
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden) 	yes, and they're costed the same as regular mesh
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden) 	specifically to protect against auto-rezzers
[12:38]	arton Rotaru 	:p
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon 	Against the parcel count, or like other temp-rez prims?
[12:38]	davep (runitai.linden) 	I believe it's against the parcel count
[12:38]	arton Rotaru 	hmhmhmhm
[12:38]	Drongle McMahon 	ha. More anti-mesh discrimination :-(
[12:38]	arton Rotaru 	one more negative for mesh
[12:38]	arton Rotaru 	yeah
[12:39]	arton Rotaru 	to much
[12:39]	TheBlack Box 	just crashed when "Cancel" on mesh-upload .... dont have mesh-assetts to test on the machine atm
[12:39]	Dain Shan 	Thats .... discouraging somehow
[12:39]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Good grief
[12:39]	arton Rotaru 	it#s way to complicated for an user created world
[12:39]	Liisa Runo 	we often set vehicles temp after sitting, so we can travel trough full parcels. This will be a problem with mesh vehicles
[12:40]	Drongle McMahon 	hey, why not cost mesh attachments against parcel count.? That will kill it off completely.
[12:40]	Rusalka Writer 	Lol.
[12:40]	arton Rotaru 	heh
[12:40]	Lazy (lazy.spectre) 	everything except wearing a mesh seems to be a problem:(
[12:40]	Maxwell Graf 	lolz
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	/me snirts
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*snorts too
[12:40]	Techwolf Lupindo 	I can see marketplace ads now, "All prims, no mesh!!"
[12:40]	Charlar Linden 	i like snirt
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	the wearing a mesh is what concerns me the most, too lol
[12:40]	arton Rotaru 	lol
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	the primcount on a parcel controls land use pretty well
[12:40]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	but nothing liket hat exists for avatars
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer 	Is this where I ask about ARC?
[12:41]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	hmm yes what is the ARC cost for mesh goping to be?
[12:41]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	snap :)
[12:41]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	grin
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	Going to be updating the ARC algorithm after the first release :)
[12:41]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	but arc is just a number people ignore :P
[12:41]	Rusalka Writer 	The ARC is a number nobody knows exists.
[12:41]	arton Rotaru 	true
[12:42]	Dahlia Trimble 	ARC is a number people use to harass others
[12:42]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	sometimes, yeah... but mostly its just ignored
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	A number that many people don't know how to read properly.
[12:42]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	and arc isnt everything, scripts are just as much an issue
[12:42]	arton Rotaru 	can we have ARC for static mesh instead of prim count :p
[12:42]	Tapple Gao 	will avatars be able to use as much mesh as possible?
[12:42]	Rusalka Writer 	Most don't even have its menu displayed.
[12:43]	Rusalka Writer 	Meshzilla!
[12:43]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	most people dont know, dont care about arc
[12:43]	Maxwell Graf 	im cruuushing yor sim! *pinches fingers together*
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	:D
[12:43]	Charlar Linden 	Ok, next...
[12:43]	Charlar Linden 	#10 Deferred rendering: not working on ATI in latest builds. Any ETA on a fix? Is there a Jira page for it, I cannot find it. [Hypatia Callisto]
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden) 	what operating system?
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I removed it
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	I realised the problem now
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	its win7
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden) 	ok, nm
[12:44]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	it was the antialiasing being on by default
[12:44]	davep (runitai.linden) 	yeah, I should have it behaving better sometime soon
[12:45]	Charlar Linden 	ok then
[12:45]	Charlar Linden 	Next:
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden) 	handling GL_OUT_OF_MEMORY is.... tricky
[12:45]	Charlar Linden 	#11 does "working on it" mean, we have a chance to see this in release 1: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-634 (mesh description file)
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	we save out the upload parameters to a "slm" file which should be 90% of what you're asking for :)
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden) 	in general, yes
[12:45]	Gaia Clary 	no
[12:45]	Gaia Clary 	lol
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	yes we know its not human-readable :P
[12:45]	Gaia Clary 	nyx, i am asking for a third party integration ....
[12:45]	arton Rotaru 	decomposed physics meshes won't load by .slm
[12:46]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	by the way, how can we use these parameters to upload another mesh ?
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden) 	arton: that's a bug, slm should be working adequately by first release
[12:46]	Gaia Clary 	the and slm reacts quite interesting when some of the input files change...
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden) 	we really need to document the .slm format
[12:46]	arton Rotaru 	ok cool
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	the slm should load the input parameters by default on loading the same dae file. We're still working on testing it
[12:46]	Angel (angel.alphaville) 	ok we'll wait :B
[12:47]	arton Rotaru 	it must be enabbled in Debug settings, to use slm
[12:47]	Nyx Linden 	as far as documenting the format and allowing third party tools to generate it, that won't be for release 1.
[12:47]	arton Rotaru 	it's set to False by defaukt
[12:47]	arton Rotaru 	-k, +l
[12:47]	Gaia Clary 	it would realy help to get an XML format for integration purpoases...
[12:47]	Gaia Clary 	well...
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	noted, but not a priority. we won't block the release to change the slm format to xml :/
[12:48]	Gaia Clary 	sure
[12:48]	Gaia Clary 	no complains if it will come one day ;-) this year
[12:48]	Charlar Linden 	super - ready to move on?
[12:48]	Charlar Linden 	#11 do we have a documentation area in layman's terms yet? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	Jeremy is working on documentation - we have a forum thread for documentation requests :)
[12:51]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Please give us the url about it.
[12:51]	Nyx Linden 	searching....just a sec
[12:51]	Falcon Linden 	I was thinking about writing a description of the physics mesh cost algorithm using LaTeX to make the hypercomplex logarithms and exponents look prettier. Does that count? :P
[12:51]	Tapple Gao 	I have documentation for rigging in blender I intend to put on the wiki. maybe will sooner rather than later
[12:52]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No Falcon :p
[12:52]	Falcon Linden 	oh.
[12:52]	Falcon Linden 	:P
[12:52]	Ranya Palmer 	hehehe
[12:52]	Charlar Linden 	next (and final) item:
[12:52]	Nyx Linden 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-Documentation-Requests/
[12:52]	Drongle McMahon 	Falcon, you shouldn'u use 2 differen "H" so it's easier to write/read,
[12:52]	Charlar Linden 	#12 Has something changed with the avatar .xml file export recently? ive been trying to import an xml. of my avi into maya but can only use the default mesh obj and unlinked skeleton. From menu: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml [Graf Maxwell]
[12:52]	Nyx Linden 	not that I'm aware of....
[12:52]	Nyx Linden 	probably nothing recent
[12:53]	Maxwell Graf 	the wiz daxter plugin will no longer function, for me and several others ive spoken to.
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Are you using Daxter's tool Max?
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	nvm :D
[12:53]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	Nyx :: Page not found on that link
[12:53]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you Nyx. But it shows "Page Not Found."
[12:53]	Dain Shan 	+1 on that
[12:53]	Drongle McMahon 	No....sorry, that's two differen "V"s.
[12:53]	Maxwell Graf 	he even worked with me to get it working, and it wouldnt.
[12:54]	Nyx Linden 	sec
[12:54]	Nyx Linden 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-Documentation-Requests/m-p/914193/highlight/true#M1403
[12:54]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Are you exporting the XML from the official V2 viewer?
[12:54]	Maxwell Graf 	on that note, if anyone here could help me with SL avi/maya rigging, I would pay well. Xeniversity is full up till about next year. lol
[12:55]	Maxwell Graf 	yes, from v2.
[12:55]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I haven't had an issue with the ones exported from Phoenix.
[12:55]	Maxwell Graf 	the files from: develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml no longer seem to work.
[12:56]	Nyx Linden 	could you get us two versions of the same avatar, one which "works" and one that "doesn't" ?
[12:56]	Gaia Clary 	Maxwell, as Ashe says... phoenix allows to download the avatar as.obj ...
[12:56]	Dain Shan 	Agree i tried that export too and it definately dosent work
[12:56]	Maxwell Graf 	yes, but the obj is not rigged.
[12:56]	Maxwell Graf 	thats my issue.
[12:56]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No Gaia.. I mean the actual xml file.
[12:56]	Gaia Clary 	oh... ok
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I did it last week without issue. I'll have to do it again later to see if something changed.
[12:57]	Nyx Linden 	could you guys get me some more detail on how its broken?
[12:57]	Maxwell Graf 	using the xml will allow for exporting multiple shapes and gender, not just default female.
[12:57]	Nyx Linden 	(create a jira or forum thread please)
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I can send you a working one Nyx if you like.
[12:57]	Dain Shan 	Well it used to be that way
[12:58]	Maxwell Graf 	thank you asha
[12:58]	Nyx Linden 	Asha - if you could send me two - one working one non, of the same avatar that would be helpful
[12:58]	arton Rotaru 	quick question
[12:58]	arton Rotaru 	Falcon: What's wrong with the physics engine. Prim mesh/prim roads are very bumpy on the latest servers
[12:58]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hmm... I don't have a non-workng one though. Perhaps, Max could send that?
[12:59]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	surely your Landy can cope with a few bumps Arton? :P
[12:59]	Nyx Linden 	the latest mesh client creates a working xml file for you Asha?
[12:59]	arton Rotaru 	yeah, lol
[12:59]	Gaia Clary 	i wonder... is there a way to import that xml file to blender ?
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I haven't tried that viewer. I'll give it a go later then make a thread with the results
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yes Gaia.
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	That how I make my clothes.
[12:59]	Chodai Yoshikawa 	yes Gaia...write some Pyhton :)
[13:00]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*That's
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	Asha, what tool do you use ?
[13:00]	Maxwell Graf 	should work the same, though ive had some others tell me they had the same problem this week with the xml to blender.
[13:00]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Wiz Daxter's addon Gaia
[13:00]	Gaia Clary 	ah, ok.
[13:00]	Eleanora Newell 	for those of us who can't script, is there anything already available for what gaia asks?
[13:00]	Charlar Linden 	ok, I think we're wrapped for the week.
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Yep... it is on the marketplace
[13:01]	Eleanora Newell 	thanks, ash
[13:01]	Maxwell Graf 	jass 2.7 ships with a file called avatar.blend thats rigged, also.
[13:01]	Python Morales 	maxwell, so which xml is this actually?
[13:01]	Falcon Linden 	Ciao, folks
[13:01]	davep (runitai.linden) 	thanks guys, keep building cool shit
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Adios Lindens
[13:01]	Vir Linden 	bye all
[13:01]	Nyx Linden 	gotta run, thanks for coming everyone :)
[13:01]	Charlar Linden 	thanks everyoone, please visit and comment on the forums on these topics.
[13:01]	Nyx Linden 	upload moar meshes!
[13:01]	Charlar Linden 	Cheers
[13:01]	Eleanora Newell 	thanks, everyone
[13:01]	arton Rotaru 	bye
[13:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	see you next week!
[13:01]	Dain Shan 	Byeee
[13:01]	Ranya Palmer 	bye guys
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The plus is that you don't have to download the obj files one by one.
[13:01]	TheBlack Box 	tc all .. thanks for the OH
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf 	if you enable develop menu, its develop > avatar > character tests > appearance to xml.
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf 	its saves a file to your SL viewer > character folder
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf 	the name of the file will be " avatar_name.xml
[13:02]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	So, it brings in your custom shape along with the skeleton in one shot.
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf 	myes
[13:02]	Maxwell Graf 	or should.
[13:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	What is the copyright of except default avatar?
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf 	i imagine you have to have a shape you have made, or one with full perms.
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf 	using the xml is the tricky part, and where im having issues.
[13:03]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	so it works with the old viewer right, learn something new
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf 	you have to have a plugin or script which lets you import the xml.
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