Bug triage/2008-01-07/Transcript

* [12:07] Squirrel Wood: via an optional dialog
* [12:07] Squirrel Wood: like, "Return banned players objects? [yes]/[no]
* [12:08] Squirrel Wood: Bunneh!
* [12:08] Aric Linden: I agree, Squirrel except that I'd like to take it anyway and test it with the new parcel media code being written
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: :D
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: sorry I'm late
* [12:08] Aric Linden: hi Alexa
* [12:08] Aric Linden: np: we're literally just getting started
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: yay!
* [12:08] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [12:08] Aric Linden: Does anyone feel as though we shouldn't take SVC-1037?
* [12:09] Squirrel Wood: It will make many sim owners happy and hopefully reduce the work load on the governance team and the grid monkeys
* [12:09] Aric Linden: yep.
* [12:09] Aric Linden: I have a sneaky feeling it's already in the new code
* [12:09] Squirrel Wood: heh
* [12:09] Aric Linden: So we'll take it
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: who shall I assing to?
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: assign*
* [12:09] Aric Linden: me please
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:09] Aric Linden: thanks
* [12:10] Aric Linden: SVC-476 is next
* [12:10] Aric Linden: Saijani, shouldn't that be a monkey?
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:11] Saijanai Kuhn: it symbolizes my pawah as a bug hunter (or somethign)
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: ^^
* [12:11] Squirrel Wood: Hello Soft ^^
* [12:11] Aric Linden: Let's take this one too.
* [12:12] Aric Linden: Hiya Soft
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:12] Soft Linden: Hey hey hey
* [12:12] Squirrel Wood: yup yup. wrong key returned = no good
* [12:12] Aric Linden: agrees with Squirrel
* [12:12] Aric Linden: SVC-674 is next
* [12:14] Squirrel Wood: hmm... buffer overflow of some sort?
* [12:14] Boroondas Gupte: or too strickt checks to avoid them?
* [12:15] Soft Linden: I believe the description is like the name, where different parts of the system allow different lengths.
* [12:15] Squirrel Wood: eep
* [12:15] Soft Linden: This should be imported and fixed to be consistent between what scripts, the system, and the edit dialogs allow
* [12:15] Squirrel Wood: such things need to be brought in line then
* [12:16] Aric Linden: yep. let's take it. Alexa, this one can just get assigned to triage directly
* [12:16] Soft Linden: I wouldn't be surprised if the problem here were that all the details aren't fitting in one packet where they're expected to with a long name. But that's symptomatic of the core problem.
* [12:16] Aric Linden: unless you want it, Soft?
* [12:16] Soft Linden: Plate's full, but if you assign it to me I'll add it notes and send it on to *triage*
* [12:16] Aric Linden: eggscellent
* [12:16] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:16] Aric Linden: sounds great. It seems a little too big for blacklight
* [12:17] Aric Linden: but i think that you've suggested a nice start.
* [12:17] Harleen Gretzky: That may break some things, ppl use teh fact that scripts can store more info in the description for permant storage on child prims
* [12:17] Aric Linden: yes. that's been discussed re: this in various situations
* [12:17] Soft Linden: It'd be up to whoever takes this to do some research, search the database for how common that is, etc.
* [12:17] Soft Linden: But yeah, you do make a good point, Harleen.
* [12:18] Aric Linden: but I like the idea of seeing how far off we are from consistency
* [12:18] Nika Talaj: *S* I know I do it.
* [12:18] Aric Linden: looks at Nika
* [12:18] Nika Talaj: Store data in the description.
* [12:18] Boroondas Gupte: are there some specs that would tell non-lindens what the expected acceptable lenght would be?
* [12:18] Aric Linden: Boroondas, not yet, that seems to me to be part of the scope of discovery on solving this issue
* [12:19] Squirrel Wood: the official length is 256 bytes as far as I know
* [12:19] Soft Linden: Boroondas - we're moving in the direction of standardizing and documenting this kind of thing, but I've not seen this one anywhere yet.
* [12:19] Aric Linden: Squirrel, you're right, but it's inconsistently enforced
* [12:19] Kerry Giha: I think it is a usefull thing because if the script is reset the data isn't lost
* [12:19] Soft Linden: Right. If we do something to preserve existing content, it'd hardly be the first time.
* [12:20] Squirrel Wood: yep. though consensus is to not trust any more than 256 bytes to be stored safely when taking into inventory and rezzing out again
* [12:20] Squirrel Wood: also, if you store more than like, 1024 bytes, only the first 1024 bytes or so is returned by llGetObjectDesc
* [12:20] Saijanai Kuhn: The fact is, you can use that descr field to cause havok with other scripts throughout a sim
* [12:21] Saijanai Kuhn: an extremely virulent example can crash a sim when it is selected in the client and bug-reported
* [12:21] Soft Linden: If you've got comments like this and want to guarantee the fixer sees them - please please add them to jira comments.
* [12:21] Soft Linden: That's one place you know the person fixing this will look.
* [12:22] Aric Linden: or so we hope.
* [12:22] Aric Linden: grins
* [12:22] Soft Linden: If they don't, at least you'll all have a good reason to tweak them over it. :>
* [12:22] Aric Linden: lols
* [12:22] Aric Linden: Exactly
* [12:23] Squirrel Wood: imagine a couple 100 objects shuffling description data between them...
* [12:23] Aric Linden: So let's move along: Squirrel, you had something you wanted to raise?
* [12:23] Squirrel Wood: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1134 <= that is the Optional parcel/estate wide autoreturn of all items someone has rezzed when that person is banned from the parcel/estate. feature request ^^
* [12:24] Boroondas Gupte: sounds good :-)
* [12:24] Day Oh: I don't know how related this is, but presently the estate tools can't return anything that isn't scripted, regardless
* [12:24] Aric Linden: Soft, do you know if that's correct?
* [12:25] Aric Linden: This seems like a really good thing to me
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: agrees
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Aric - Seems like a good idea. A little bit risky, but it would definitely save #support a ton of time
* [12:25] Soft Linden: They do quite a bit of mop up even on estates.
* [12:25] Aric Linden: where does the risk lie?
* [12:26] Squirrel Wood: risky it may be.. which is why it should be optional... mayhaps have the sim owner explicitely enable it
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: returning half a building
* [12:26] Saijanai Kuhn: needs an undo feature...
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: if something is built with a resident AND the banned person
* [12:26] Soft Linden: The impact of returning thousands of objects at once from potentially dozens of regions - could turn into really heavy, focussed dataserver load.
* [12:26] Soft Linden: If it's being used on a bunch of estates at once during a goo attack, for example.
* [12:26] Saijanai Kuhn: could be a new form of attack
* [12:26] Aric Linden: um, undo implies that we'd hold it all in memory for some period of time. I'm not sure we're up for that
* [12:27] Squirrel Wood: goo objects you usually just want to get rid of.... delete.
* [12:27] Saijanai Kuhn: I was 95% joking because of that issue.
* [12:27] Day Oh: What about just having a way to return all of a single user's objects?
* [12:27] Saijanai Kuhn: it would be a like a partial rollback of a sim
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Right. Something like that, support might just delete all of the owner's objects instead of returning. We can't give delete to estate owners, though.
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Not on a scale like that.
* [12:27] Aric Linden: agrees
* [12:28] Soft Linden: If it goes to triage, the right people will see and discuss this though.
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: true
* [12:28] Soft Linden: 32 votes - is that enough to warrant it?
* [12:28] Aric Linden: agreed: let's make it so
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: assign to?
* [12:28] Aric Linden: triage please
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: done
* [12:28] Aric Linden: Soft is right, we'll figure it out there
* [12:29] Aric Linden: so that exhausts today's agenda
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Yow!
* [12:29] Aric Linden: sadly
* [12:29] Squirrel Wood: Aye
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Well, those links go to open high voted bugs
* [12:29] Soft Linden: For example
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Can work off of that - 
* [12:29] Aric Linden: jinx, I was just typing that
* [12:29] Aric Linden: let's go for it.
* [12:30] Squirrel Wood: looks good and even loaded fast ;)
* [12:30] Aric Linden: SVC-674 is next
* [12:30] Aric Linden: SVC-674
* [12:30] Aric Linden: argh. sorry
* [12:30] Soft Linden: VWR-3560 ?
* [12:31] Boroondas Gupte: shall I add them to the wiki?
* [12:31] Aric Linden: yep, VWR-3560 is next
* [12:31] Aric Linden: thanks Soft
* [12:31] Squirrel Wood: yep.. should be mutable or at least ignoreable
* [12:32] Soft Linden: Yeah, this should be mutable. Anything that can pop up stuff on your UI from anothe resi's script should be mutable.
* [12:32] Soft Linden: (Except payment - because I don't care of someone griefs me with L$!)
* [12:32] Aric Linden: ok. let's take it
* [12:32] Squirrel Wood: Payment I would like to see an option to deny high sums
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: triage?
* [12:32] Aric Linden: yes please, Alexa
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: done
* [12:33] Aric Linden: vwr-3109 is next
* [12:33] Squirrel Wood: I guess the snapping is between the 3d shape and the impostor or whatever it is called
* [12:34] Soft Linden: This could go straight to the Windlight guys - they might leave it alone if they're still looking at the alternate plant system
* [12:34] Soft Linden: But they'd certainly be the only team that would look at it this early on
* [12:34] Aric Linden: I'd like to know if Narqus still feels this way. The windlight folks just made some changes to tree rendering
* [12:34] Aric Linden: Soft: they know it's an issue. It's being tracked and discussed in the WL group.
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: ok - I'mm import and assing to WL
* [12:35] Squirrel Wood: the current windlight viewer still "snaps" between the lower/higher detail objects
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: I'll*
* [12:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Wanted to remind everyone who isn't a member of AW Groupies, our first meeting of the year is tomorrow at 9:30 AM SL time
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Is there an existing issue it could be attached to then?
* [12:35] Squirrel Wood: I guess he wants to see a somewhat smooth crossfade at that point
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: I can try to find one soft
* [12:35] Aric Linden: yes. some of the changes are going into a later release
* [12:35] Aric Linden: Thanks Alexa.
* [12:35] Saijanai Kuhn: IM me for an invite, its on Zha's private island so group membership is required to get there
* [12:35] Aric Linden: VWR-1402 is next
* [12:36] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm... black eyes
* [12:36] Squirrel Wood: didn't we have a black eye issue lately ?
* [12:36] Aric Linden: If I can work it out, Saijanai, i'm going to try and attend. I'll ping you if I can make it
* [12:37] Aric Linden: Yes, Squirrel. In fact, this seems to be a reprise of that issue
* [12:37] Aric Linden: it's already got comments by alexa
* [12:37] Saijanai Kuhn: great. Our topic will likely be documentation issues and how that affects all aspects of SL
* [12:37] Aric Linden: documentation? we don' need no steekin' documentation
* [12:37] Aric Linden: :-)
* [12:37] Saijanai Kuhn: is speaking as someone who has been trying to document the procols for several months now and treading water when he is lucky
* [12:38] Boroondas Gupte: I think we had something with gray eyes, lately, not black
* [12:38] Saijanai Kuhn: protocols*
* [12:38] Aric Linden: I don't see a repro in this bug
* [12:38] Aric Linden: I'm not sure what we'd do with it if we take it in
* [12:38] Aric Linden: looks at Sai, you know i'm kidding, right? I'm a big documentation fan
* [12:38] Soft Linden: No. But Be Holder says it happened twice. Asking for graphics card details could be helpful here - we can see if it's an issue with a certain GL implementation
* [12:39] Soft Linden: It's weird if none of us are seeing it, but this person can make it happen more than once.
* [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Aric, I know you are. My latest goal, is to populate this table and get some ptyno scripts working with it: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/ImprovedInstantMessage
* [12:39] Aric Linden: Maybe the grey eyes are getting corrupted?
* [12:39] Day Oh: I can't tell whether they're saying anyone else can see their eyes are black too
* [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: python* scripts
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Good question, Day Oh!
* [12:39] Saijanai Kuhn: Group IM turns out to be insanely hard to get a handle on
* [12:39] Aric Linden: Let's ask for more info?
* [12:40] Saijanai Kuhn: for some reason...
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: I see this happen every once in a blue moon
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: I change eyes
* [12:40] Soft Linden: I'd vote needs more info, with system info, and whether others see the problem too. That'd tell us if it's rebaking (everyone would see) or just a local rendering issue
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: then change back a while later and it's fine
* [12:40] Aric Linden: jinx
* [12:40] Boroondas Gupte: me believes it to be a problem of avatar texturebaking
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: I agree
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: the eyes are never perminently stuck black or gray
* [12:41] Aric Linden: SVC-389 is up next
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: changes to the prim shape have always unsat avatars
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:42] Aric Linden: nods
* [12:42] Soft Linden: Naw, not always, but for some time.
* [12:42] Aric Linden: but mayhaps the new havok has made this better?
* [12:42] Soft Linden: I dont think this would change without a good reason.
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: I guess since the avatar is treated as part of the linkset it should not unsit when a prim in the set changes shape...
* [12:43] Soft Linden: This is at 13 votes. Perhaps ask for more examples of why it's needed and hold off on enough votes to justify pulling a dev off another task?
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: as the rest isn't getting delinked either
* [12:43] Aric Linden: We do know there are occasional probs with sitting tho
* [12:43] Boroondas Gupte: /
* [12:43] Aric Linden: But I like Softs suggestion very much
* [12:44] Aric Linden: anyone else?
* [12:44] Soft Linden: If it got imported at the current vote count, triage would retire it to someday-maybe immediately.
* [12:44] Squirrel Wood: I'm with Soft on this ^^
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: I'll add that
* [12:44] Aric Linden: yep. agreed soft
* [12:45] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is up
* [12:45] Aric Linden: is afraid we're way off the record today
* [12:45] Aric Linden: must be the change of seasons
* [12:45] Squirrel Wood: We shall set a record the next time then :)
* [12:45] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is a known issue
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: haha
* [12:46] Aric Linden: hugs Squirrel for positive attitude
* [12:46] Aric Linden: hoorah for positivity
* [12:46] Aric Linden: VWR-3857 is getting worked on a number of fronts, I'm not sure that importing this will add any fuel to the fire.
* [12:47] Soft Linden: This is legit. As Alissa says - there's no fallback specified for missing monospace glyphs.
* [12:47] Aric Linden: we just need to make the DB smarter, I think.
* [12:47] Squirrel Wood: Fix pending ?
* [12:47] Day Oh: I don't believe they would compile o_O I know Nicholaz has a patch for making them compile
* [12:47] Soft Linden: VWR-3857 should be imported. That's gotta be really annoying for i18n scripting!
* [12:47] Aric Linden: Squirrel, sadly, i'm not sure it's fair to say fix pending. Rather closer to the truth is we know about the problem and are discussing various fixes
* [12:47] Day Oh: I'm probably off
* [12:48] Soft Linden: Aric: Now it's a known issue with a patch attached :)
* [12:48] Aric Linden: Ok. Let's take it per Soft's passion.
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: assign to?
* [12:48] Aric Linden: please assign it to triage
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:48] Aric Linden: and we'll figure out where it goes from there
* [12:48] Bridie Linden: nods
* [12:48] Aric Linden: afaik, no studio is actively engaged on this right now.
* [12:49] Aric Linden: is sad to think about it
* [12:49] Soft Linden: We had one of the Blacklighters doing some Asian font work recently, trying to remember which
* [12:49] Aric Linden: VWR-1286
* [12:49] Aric Linden: it was Simon
* [12:49] Bridie Linden: Simon
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Right!
* [12:49] Aric Linden: that was about 3 months ago
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Time flies :(
* [12:49] Aric Linden: he's moved off all iso 8 stuff because he's working on havok
* [12:50] Aric Linden: nods at Soft. yeah, but think how much fun you're having
* [12:50] Aric Linden: VWR-1286
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: 1286... someone was working on a patch for that methinks
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: dale glass if I remember right
* [12:51] Bridie Linden: PJIRA not happy...
* [12:51] Day Oh: 
* [12:51] Aric Linden: did pjira just bomb for anyone else?
* [12:51] Bridie Linden: nods
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:51] Aric Linden: jinx bridie
* [12:51] Day Oh: Google's cache
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: ka-boom
* [12:51] Saijanai Kuhn: wasn't there a handy clickable object to call up the webpages here just a few minutes ago?
* [12:51] Squirrel Wood: google cache refuses to load
* [12:52] Saijanai Kuhn: did someone move it or has it gone invis in my viewer?
* [12:52] Aric Linden: well, we can discuss fun holiday parties while we wait
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: hahahha
* [12:52] Aric Linden: anyone do anything really special?
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: I met Torley in RL
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: O.O
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: does the happy dance
* [12:52] Saijanai Kuhn: i learned how to pull hair out of my head one folicle at a time...
* [12:52] Aric Linden: now That's special
* [12:53] Aric Linden: (meeting torley)
* [12:53] Squirrel Wood: Oh.. 'twas Gigs who worked on a patch
* [12:53] Saijanai Kuhn: Group IM (nuff said)
* [12:53] Aric Linden: hair follicle stuff is just TMI
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: hahahahahaha
* [12:53] Soft Linden: I can't load the patch to look. A 24k patch to change camer behavior is spooky to me
* [12:53] Squirrel Wood: Torley = Yayzerama
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: :D
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: all his melony goodness
* [12:54] Aric Linden: Soft, I agree with you. plus it appears that we've just introduced some camera oddness in the recent release branch
* [12:54] Aric Linden: Alexa, does he wear pink and green IRL?
* [12:54] Bridie Linden: mail sent about PJIRA
* [12:54] Aric Linden: Thanks Bridie.
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: no
* [12:54] Bridie Linden: np
* [12:54] Squirrel Wood: last comment... Gigs Taggart - 22/Nov/07 08:02 AM I'll see if I can port my patch forward to windlight soon.
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: bridie, did you see any pin k& green?
* [12:55] Bridie Linden: grins
* [12:55] Bridie Linden: not tellin'
* [12:55] Aric Linden: Thanks Sai
* [12:55] Aric Linden: laughs
* [12:55] Aric Linden: that's innuendo TMI
* [12:55] Squirrel Wood: 
* [12:55] Bridie Linden: always sees pink and green
* [12:55] Bridie Linden: no innuendo
* [12:56] Bridie Linden: :)
* [12:56] Soft Linden: JIRA's just come back for me
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: right at the end it works
* [12:57] Aric Linden: moi aussi
* [12:57] Bridie Linden: My email worked!
* [12:57] Soft Linden: Our hosting company hella fears Bridie!
* [12:57] Day Oh: Oh dear, first time I've been able to log into it all day
* [12:57] Aric Linden: everyone hella fears bridie
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: LOL
* [12:57] Soft Linden: They've got this klaxon that sounds whenever her name appears on an email.
* [12:57] Aric Linden: laughs
* [12:57] Squirrel Wood: hehe
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: I'm skeered of Bridie O.o
* [12:58] Bridie Linden: mwah ha ha
* [12:58] Aric Linden: well, I think we'll wrap
* [12:58] Bridie Linden: grins...evil-ly
* [12:58] Aric Linden: as always, thanks to all who attended and participated
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Thanks thanks thanks!