Bug triage/2009-01-19/Transcript

* [12:05] Alexa Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/2009-01-19
* [12:06] Alexa Linden: I guess I'll drive and soft can ride along with me?
* [12:06] Erinyse Planer: has been scrwed over repeatedly the last two days by the consistantly unusable database and its fianlly gotten to me
* [12:06] Soft Linden: I know we're conslting with a zomg expensive database specialist. Rumor was he threw up on himself and curled up in a corner for his first hour after seeing the insane load.
* [12:06] Erinyse Planer: so please dotn take offense if im irritable
* [12:07] Soft Linden: Sure thing. We'll stumble along Konaless. :)
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2546
* [12:07] Phillip Vought: but but.. its only little tiny packets of data whats the problem ;)
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: smiles at Phillip
* [12:07] Lovecraft Docherty: reaches forward and rubs Erin's shoulders.
* [12:08] Lovecraft Docherty: It took me forever to log today.... the site said the issue was resolved? what's up?
* [12:08] Gellan Glenelg: hmm. assigned, but not imported
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: so this one us old and yes
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: should be imported
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: it seems logical
* [12:08] Phillip Vought: terribly so
* [12:08] Soft Linden: Yeah, this can be imported. I think Andrew wouldn't have objected if he'd understood the explicit ban aspect
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: guys, let's stick to the triage rather than login issues which I can't answer
* [12:08] Moon Metty: hi Harleen
* [12:09] Harleen Gretzky: Hi all
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: Hey Harleen
* [12:09] Bridie Linden: waves
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: thanks for the triage
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3665
* [12:09] Dessie Linden: waves
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: I seem to remember a rounding bug before
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: does anyone else?
* [12:09] Moon Metty: 3665 is supposed to be fixed in 1.25
* [12:09] Squirrel Wood: yarr
* [12:10] Moon Metty: but it's one of the old mono bugs that cmae back
* [12:10] Soft Linden: Ah, Alexa - poke at sue before trying any imports. Looks like the internal jira path changed. The import tool may do funny/unexpected things right now
* [12:10] Squirrel Wood: 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 0+1 + 0.1 = 0.499999999999999999
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: ya, it's borked :p
* [12:10] Squirrel Wood: but: 0.1 * 5 = 0.5
* [12:10] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - it's linked. I suspect this one is explained by strife's comment on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3328
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: ok thanks for that
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: so I should tie this all together
* [12:10] Moon Metty: as long as lsl does the same as mono, it should be good
* [12:10] Squirrel Wood: but: 0.125 + 0.125 + 0.125.... flawless.
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: but you said this has come back?
* [12:11] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: does it make sense to tie to the original?
* [12:11] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:11] Object: 89: 
* [12:11] Moon Metty: some old mono bugsfixes weren't merged into 1.25.3
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: Hello box
* [12:11] Soft Linden: SVC-3328 is still broken. That needs to be reopened.
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: then that's what I'll do
* [12:12] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:12] Object: 90: 
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9558
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: well this can be tied to any other can't TP bug
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: since this is normally a situational issue
* [12:13] Squirrel Wood: unable to serialize all the scripts and other stuff on your avatar in a timely fashion.
* [12:13] Gellan Glenelg: there are a huge number recently - see those linked to VWR-9999
* [12:13] Gellan Glenelg: but may be related to load / general problems
* [12:13] Soft Linden: This will likely be helped considerably by LLNet.
* [12:13] Soft Linden: I'd leave it open for now, just mark it triaged.
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:14] Soft Linden: We certainly know that TPs are still failing. Several internal issues already.
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11442
* [12:14] Moon Metty: aha!
* [12:14] Moon Metty: i know that one
* [12:14] Moon Metty: it's the same as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5574
* [12:14] Squirrel Wood: Isn't that supposed to happen ?
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: would you say a duplicate Moon?
* [12:14] Moon Metty: the client is supposed to use one core
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Minimized, it's supposed to throttle back a bunch
* [12:15] Soft Linden: Just like when a window loses focus
* [12:15] Moon Metty: i think it is, only https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5574 has become a bit messy
* [12:15] Erinyse Planer: it seems the one tp issue though is only on the new series... and only after the server rollout....
* [12:15] Moon Metty: i suffer from it from time to time
* [12:15] Erinyse Planer: im wondering if theres a new limit imposed somwehre
* [12:15] Moon Metty: i hope it can be fixed
* [12:16] Moon Metty: i have spent a lot of time to find out when it happens, but i don't have a clue
* [12:16] Erinyse Planer: and the client can use more then one core but tis not suppsoed to max either or so ive been told by a few devs
* [12:17] Soft Linden: VWR-5574 seems to have fallen in a pit internally. I'll nudge it back toward triage for proper tagging, etc
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: I'll link them together and
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: jinx
* [12:17] Moon Metty: thank you :)
* [12:17] Lovecraft Docherty: it should use more than one core
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: lol thanks soft
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10744
* [12:17] Erinyse Planer: depends on how you set it up lc...
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: ooh
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: is this the one where if you scoll down the size versus typing it
* [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: atill repros
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: iit jumps back?
* [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: still*
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: thanks gellan
* [12:18] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - use the arrows to set it to 0.01 size... and it doesn't stick
* [12:18] Soft Linden: Gellan's repro is much clearer
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:18] Erinyse Planer: still repos turst me
* [12:18] Erinyse Planer: *trust me
* [12:18] Soft Linden: I'm going to copy G's comment up into the description so it's imported that way
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: I've repro'd before
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5888
* [12:19] Erinyse Planer: votes on thsi oen cuase tis really really frustrating
* [12:19] Soft Linden: This should be imported for viewer triage. It should be a very simple fix.
* [12:19] Soft Linden: The control's getting marked dirty by the input field, but not the arrow is all.
* [12:19] Squirrel Wood: scrolling down the size sends lots of packets... packet order is.. semi random.
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: next up is
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5888
* [12:20] Moon Metty: there's an echo in here
* [12:20] Soft Linden: This is ancient
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: ack sorry
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4524
* [12:21] Soft Linden: Is this still happening?
* [12:21] Soft Linden: The -5888, I mean.
* [12:21] Gellan Glenelg: I'm never seen that error, and probably wouldn't have pressed help ;P
* [12:21] Moon Metty: i have wondered about it
* [12:21] Soft Linden: For VWR-5888 - resolve can't repro, ask if it still happens?
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: I can try and see later
* [12:21] Moon Metty: it seems more logical to change the position
* [12:22] Moon Metty: just changing scale is something you never want to do
* [12:22] Erinyse Planer: easy to check give me one second
* [12:22] Phillip Vought: This one (4524) is intensly annoying
* [12:22] Erinyse Planer: yes still repos
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: 5888?
* [12:22] Erinyse Planer: yep
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:23] Multi Gadget: v1.57.1 by Timeless Prototype
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: back to 4524
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: err not 5888
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: the one on scaling
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: that one repoed for me
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Yeah, this one's pretty annoying when modding like - prim based avatars.
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: Import?
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Hmm
* [12:24] Erinyse Planer: yes lol shoulda bene imported months ago
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Tough call, because it's going to be a bunch of work. It would be more likely to happen if it got more votes first.
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: Last Triaged date?
* [12:25] Soft Linden: A dev is going to look at this, look at the several days' work to fix it, and look at only two votes... :/
* [12:25] Erinyse Planer: soft how many?
* [12:25] Bridie Linden: :|
* [12:25] Moon Metty: hmmmm
* [12:25] Moon Metty: i'll vote
* [12:25] Erinyse Planer: could score it 50 within a day :-/
* [12:25] Dessie Linden: can it be imported with a low-ish priority?
* [12:25] Soft Linden: No magic number. But a dozen or so at least shows people are inerested.
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: so I'll mark with a traige date and check back?
* [12:26] Harleen Gretzky: Unlikely to get more votes, it is almost a year old
* [12:26] Soft Linden: Yeah, but if it gets imported with a low priorty, it probably sits for a year and a half. There are literally thousands of issues at normal and high priority that would be seen first.
* [12:26] Dessie Linden: k
* [12:26] Erinyse Planer: all ild have to do is ask everyone in cola ccs sim that has ever had trouble modding their hair to look at it
* [12:26] Dessie Linden: thx
* [12:26] Soft Linden: Yeah, I'd mark the triage date. And if anyone here wants to stump for votes - it's helpful
* [12:26] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: sorry lag for me and jira
* [12:28] Harleen Gretzky: Looks like someone moved the next to SEC
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: the next is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-190
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: so it's taken care of
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
* [12:28] Gellan Glenelg: just from title, can I suggest that MISC-2213 and MISC-2218 *might* be related?
* [12:28] Gellan Glenelg: (to the SEC-190 that I can't see details of, that is)
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: I'll check :)
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
* [12:29] Erinyse Planer: wow if it was a security issue in the first palce how did it end up on triage?
* [12:29] Phillip Vought: Close as NMI?
* [12:29] Soft Linden: This should be contact support
* [12:30] Gellan Glenelg: erin, it wasn't - it was SVC
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: it wasn't at first
* [12:30] Soft Linden: the MISC-2213, sorry
* [12:30] Gordon Wendt: Erinyse, it was probably not an SEC issue when the list was populated probably
* [12:30] Gellan Glenelg: ok soft - I'll change that - and 2218
* [12:30] Erinyse Planer: before that even ild suggest a full out clean wipe and reinstall soft
* [12:30] Gordon Wendt: to get slightly off-topic for a second one of the many flaws with SEC is that there's no way to know when and why something is disappeared
* [12:31] Soft Linden: I'm sorry - I mixed things up. Which JIRA are we now on?
* [12:31] Phillip Vought: Sercurity through obsurity Gordon.. Microsofts mantra :)
* [12:31] Dessie Linden: should be 8245, right?
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8245
* [12:31] Erinyse Planer: if youre on 8245 soft i think somemthing is majorly corrupted in one of the install files about secondlife should never grey out
* [12:31] Squirrel Wood: M$ protects their bugs by changing the associated error messages on every patch day :p
* [12:31] Gordon Wendt: Phillip, well I don't want to sidetrack the whole bug triage but if you read sldev you know my views
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: Still a problem?
* [12:32] Squirrel Wood: try with latest rc ?
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: ok will do
* [12:32] Erinyse Planer: let me see if their on right now
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Per the crash log, this is from 1.18.3.5
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: if so they should update the issue first
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Ancient. Would be helpful to ask if it still happens for them
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: next up is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11514
* [12:33] Erinyse Planer: i just asked them
* [12:35] Erinyse Planer: im 99% sure this is a duplicate
* [12:35] Moon Metty: it's not the most severe bug, but maybe easy to fix
* [12:35] Squirrel Wood: I would say they need to check the sort order ?
* [12:35] Gellan Glenelg: they're saying that sort order does not persist across logons
* [12:36] Dessie Linden: no votes, and since it's not a severe issue, I'd say move on
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: more about what your sort is preset to?
* [12:36] Phillip Vought: this was filed right around the time all sorts of options didnt save
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: I tend to think can't repro
* [12:37] Soft Linden: This would be a great one for someone to make a meta JIRA for. If there are other JIRAs about options not saving
* [12:37] Squirrel Wood: cannot repro, still happening with latest rc ?
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: since I can't and I do have mine set to sort bt name
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: by*
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: ya, squirrel
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: I'll ask
* [12:37] Soft Linden: A dev doing a bunch of these one at a time might spend 5x as long as they'd take doing 10 related issues
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: next is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7158
* [12:38] Soft Linden: I say just mark the date on the last one. And I'll add a request for related issues
* [12:38] Gellan Glenelg: ancient
* [12:38] Squirrel Wood: I can repro camera "freezes" when not moving the camera for a long time in a busy place, then suddenly alt-caming somewhere.
* [12:38] Squirrel Wood: in the latest rc
* [12:39] Erinyse Planer: still repos for me
* [12:39] Squirrel Wood: changing to mouse look does it too
* [12:39] Erinyse Planer: very very very much so
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: it normally ties to overall performance to me
* [12:39] Squirrel Wood: I'd think of it as a cache issue. stuff you don't see for some time is stripped from the cache and then, when suddenly needed is not "available" right away
* [12:40] Erinyse Planer: i think the whole cache ssytem got borked soemtime around 1.21 .. and especially on 1.22
* [12:40] Squirrel Wood: It needs a complete rewrite, yes.
* [12:40] Erinyse Planer: my viewer hangs up allot of times on attempting to initiallize it
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: ask if it's still a problem using the latest rc?
* [12:40] Erinyse Planer: alexa it is
* [12:40] Squirrel Wood: it IS
* [12:41] Erinyse Planer: read up
* [12:41] Moon Metty: i don't have those freezes,n ot for a long time
* [12:41] Erinyse Planer: IMPORT
* [12:41] Soft Linden: I assume this is worse for people in areas with a lot of objects?
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: sorry, UI am lagging
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: yup
* [12:41] Soft Linden: Any extra repro details would be great
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: lots worse in busy places
* [12:41] Soft Linden: But yeah, should probably import. I think it's a dup, but can't find it right now
* [12:41] Erinyse Planer: theres at least three dupes of this too that were brought up in bsi
* [12:41] Gellan Glenelg: agreed soft - I can't repro it from the description
* [12:42] Erinyse Planer: if i could open explorer without sl thinking it was disconecting ild grab the logs of the discussions we've had on this
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2380
* [12:44] Gellan Glenelg: expected behaviour?
* [12:44] Gordon Wendt: Alexa, I've seen a couple about that, I think it's WAI due to the timing issues because of lag
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: for 2380?
* [12:44] Gordon Wendt: yes
* [12:45] Gordon Wendt: between server load and client lag there is no reliable timing that isn't effected by that
* [12:45] Gellan Glenelg: "According to Andrew Linden, as of SL 1.11, there is a limit on the number of temp-on-rez prims allowed on a parcel based on the parcel's prim limit.
* 
* The formula is currently "temp_prim_limit = 0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 20", or 500 temp-on-rez prims, whichever is smaller."
* [EDIT 2009.02.02 - Andrew Linden] The formula is actually: temp_prim_limit = (regular_prim_limit - current_regular_prims) + minimum(0.5 * regular_prim_limit + 400, 1000)
* [12:45] Gordon Wendt: so it effects not only how long before the server cleans up temp on rez objects but also how long before the client sees the cleanup
* [12:45] Soft Linden: Specific steps for what they're doing would be great. Are they moving existing objects on, or doing the initial rez there? Does it happen every time?
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: NMI then?
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: with those questions?
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: .
* [12:47] Alexa Linden: Bueller?
* [12:47] Alexa Linden: Bueller??
* [12:48] Harleen Gretzky: Sounds good
* [12:48] Phillip Vought: I'll try and repro now that LL have kindly cut my void to 750 prims ;)
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: lol thanks Harleen
* [12:48] Phillip Vought: I'll update it
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: thanks Phillip
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: another older one https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4193
* [12:49] Erinyse Planer: /me3 comes back "grrrr" i give up. my bsi logs are way too long to find any given jira entry lol
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Sorry, yeah. Was getting pinged on internal
* [12:49] Gordon Wendt: Alexa, you can't blame me this week, I've been busy so my hands haven't been anywhere near the schedule :)
* [12:49] Gellan Glenelg: I've seen a similar effect if I try to drag SL onto a monitor running < 32 bit colour
* [12:49] Bridie Linden: neat
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Oh wow. User switching is a brave thing to do under XP even without a viewer running.
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: lol no worried Gordon
* [12:50] Harleen Gretzky: Happens with screen savers als
* [12:50] Gordon Wendt: and of course it doesn't help that the wiki has been unstable at best lately
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Yeah. this should be imported for maint-render
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Might also provide a clue about some of the other glow surface problems
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:50] Erinyse Planer: i think its an issue with certain nvidea cards. i never had that
* [12:50] Harleen Gretzky: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6962 was teh original on the agenda, since it was a dupe of this I put the older on
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: good call
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: thank you
* [12:51] Phillip Vought: well hell Gellan at least SL doesnt crash every time you move monitors now ;)
* [12:51] Erinyse Planer: good job harleen
* [12:51] Gordon Wendt: wow trippy snapsnot for that one Harleen
* [12:51] Moon Metty: nice screenshot!
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: and the last one for today is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11537
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: 48K???
* [12:52] Gordon Wendt: obsolete calls maybe?
* [12:52] Alexa Linden: man, I would cry if mine were that big
* [12:52] Erinyse Planer: pat pats alexa
* [12:52] Gordon Wendt: supposedly the viewer is full of routines and calls that don't do anything
* [12:52] Moon Metty: i think i've seen those message, but i really don't know what they mean
* [12:52] Gellan Glenelg: yeah - I have a LOT of those error in current SecondLife.log
* [12:52] Erinyse Planer: im guessing either obselete or else prepped for soemthing to be added
* [12:53] Erinyse Planer: ild ping a few devs before importing
* [12:53] Soft Linden: This should be imported and passed to Aura.
* [12:53] Gordon Wendt: I'm sure you Lindens can confirm that the viewer is essentially tangled spaghetti code at this point after so many changes and updates with patching and removing and adding every time
* [12:53] Soft Linden: Looks to me like her viewer changes for http inventory loading got in ahead of the server changes. It shouldn't log spam so much.
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: ok - will do Soft
* [12:54] Phillip Vought: solution : hurry up with the server http changes?
* [12:54] Erinyse Planer: thinks of the code mroe like a japanese hentai tentackle mosnter thats been fed a few too many times
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: as a quick update
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: for those of you that attend the Weds. triage
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: formally Bridie's and at her place
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: this week we will be moving to Bamber's new place
* [12:54] Erinyse Planer: wont make it this week sadly.... gonan be closing at my rl job again
* [12:55] Squirrel Wood: pastafari!
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: I will update the triage wiki and add his Slurl so you can all get there :)
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: it's a skybox fyi
* [12:55] Erinyse Planer: can you pass lms to the bsi group later please alexa?
* [12:55] Phillip Vought: dont forget a note at the box.. for people like me that dont read :)
* [12:55] Gordon Wendt: oh so we can all fall through the floor alexa
* [12:55] Gordon Wendt: :)
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: so if for some reason you get to the lanmark but the ground, just fly up
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: LOL
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: shup you
* [12:55] Squirrel Wood: aww
* [12:55] Gordon Wendt: actually there's still no repro for that Ithink
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: that's why I'm giving the warning
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:55] Gordon Wendt: *I think
* [12:56] Soft Linden: Otay!
* [12:56] Bridie Linden: is old news....
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: weeps silently
* [12:56] Erinyse Planer: hugs bridie and alexa
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: So that's it for today
* [12:56] Moon Metty: alrighty
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: Thank you all for your ossm triaging skills
* [12:56] Phillip Vought: Bye all.. time to get back and earn the money I feed in here
* [12:56] Gordon Wendt: group chat seems to be going down again, just an fyi
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: and see you weds. or next week
* [12:56] Dessie Linden: thanks, Alexa!
* [12:56] Bridie Linden: thx all!
* [12:56] Moon Metty: thank you :)
* [12:57] Moon Metty: see you soon