Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-03-24

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on March 24th, 2011
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* This week was better than last week
* Second Life Server (main channel)
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.03.18.224600
** Fix for an issue introduced in "mono2-aware" where scripts could use more than 64kb of memory.
*** The fix might create stack heap collision errors in some scripts made since the release of "mono2-aware"
*** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Release/Script-crashes-with-a-stack-heap-collision-errors/td-p/772123
** Security fix to prevent copying 'no copy' objects.
* BlueSteel RC Channel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.03.22.224783
** Same as what was on last week before the emergency deploy.
** "Content Management" Project.
* LeTigre RC Channel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.03.22.224790
** Same as what was on last week before the emergency deploy.
** Andrew's "maint-server" project.
* Magnum RC Channel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.03.22.224766
** Same as what was on last week before the emergency deploy.
** "Estate Transfer Limits" project
* XMPP Group Chat Project Viewer!!
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#XMPP_Group_Chat
** Has anyone downloaded it?
** We have ADITI set up as a beta environment and Damballah as a development environment.
* Falcon's RayCasting Challenge
** Did anyone try giving raycasting a go?
* Kelly's Scripting User Group
** Mondays 09:00-10:00 at Ambleside/161/89/30 
** http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Scripting_User_Group
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* Maestro
** Kelly's "mono2-performance"
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Rodvik blogs:
** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Introducing-SL-Viewer-Beta-with-Basic-and-Advanced-Modes/ba-p/758329
** Bagman Linden blogs
*** He is our new VP of Engineeruing.
*** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Hello-from-Bagman-Linden-the-New-VP-of-Engineering/ba-p/768215
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for March 24th, 2011:
* [14:58] Kallista Destiny: Hi Oskar
* [14:59] Oskar Linden: Hi Kallista
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: Your region will restart in 0 minutes and 30 seconds for maintenance.
* [15:00] Lares Carter: hi Oskar
* [15:01] Flip Idlemind: Badly scheduled restart
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: oh
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: no it's relevent
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: ;-)
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: we did that for you guys
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: so we can show you the latest greatest code
* [15:01] Fancy Greeter: Coyot Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: but maestro could have done it 20 minutes ago
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: blame him
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: and kelly
* [15:02] Kallista Destiny: *chuckles*
* [15:02] Kadah Coba: Oskar broke it
* [15:03] Homeless: I: don't think the new code is ready for prime time
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: we should have put it on the beta grid first
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: oh yeah...
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: this is the beta grid
* [15:03] Kadah Coba: Sure it is, were is your sense of adventure?
* [15:03] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: it's maestro's faulty
* [15:04] Maestro Linden: *ahem*
* [15:04] Maestro Linden: should've rolled the sim without the 5 minute warning
* [15:04] Fancy Greeter: Bug Tester has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: ::cough::
* [15:04] Fancy Greeter: Simon Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:05] TankMaster Finesmith: funny how you can walk off the region a litle bit 
* [15:05] Kadah Coba: Good job guys. You're timing is prefect as always. :P
* [15:05] Bug Tester: :-D
* [15:05] Flip Idlemind: A giant bug
* [15:05] Marigold Devin: Bonjour. Sorry for landing on a head there
* [15:05] Jonathan Yap: I was walking around Ahern at -46,-20 the other day
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: there it is
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: gogogogo
* [15:05] Bug TesterBug: Tester tests the waters
* [15:06] Fancy Greeter: Coyot Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:07] Kallista Destiny: wow talk about lag
* [15:07] Kadah Coba: Eep
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: yeesh
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: who wrote this thing?
* [15:07] Kadah Coba: Dont push me on to Oskar's lap, I don't like him that much D:
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: well I am thankful for all who waited so patiently to get into Morris
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: this sim is "the future"
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: "mono2-performance"
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: but more about that later
* [15:08] Kelly Linden: impossible
* [15:08] Draconis Neurocam: its more likely then you think
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda
* [15:08] Eddi Decosta: LOL
* [15:08] Eddi Decosta: hi there 
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: last week was fun
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: "fun"
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: but you were all here for that so you know
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: coyot gets giddy around 1am during emergency deploys
* [15:09] Sigma Avro: well rezing is not that good, have been pushed away for 30 seconds, maybe be causze of the croud
* [15:09] Draconis Neurocam: gettin giddy wit it
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: lol
* [15:09] Latif Khalifa: ah ut's the bug tester making all that noise
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: does anyone have a fly swatter?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: so after the "fun" of the emergency deploy last week
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: we had a 2nd security issue come up
* [15:10] Latif Khalifa: Coyot, derender in Phoenix is just as good ;)
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it was another copy no/copy exploit
* [15:10] Eddi Decosta: question why i see (?) in the end of each line?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: literally the next morning the reports came in
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: thankfully it wasn't widespread
* [15:11] RedMokum Bravin: :-0
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so we were able to bundle it into the release this week
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: we also bundled in another critical issue
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: an issue introduced in "mono2-aware" where scripts could use more than 64kb of memory
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: that had potential for nastiness
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: I wrote about it here: 
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: I'm sorry we couldn't have found it quicker
* [15:12] Kadah CobaKadah: Coba wants big-scripts already :C
* [15:12] Rex Cronon: u mean we could get 1mb:)
* [15:12] Coyot LindenCoyot: Linden wants machines with an infinite amount of RAM
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: the fix for that issues bricks certain scripts that were amde this last month
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: you could get more than 1mb
* [15:13] Maestro Linden: much more :)
* [15:13] Kelly Linden: If you tried decently hard you could get much more. :p
* [15:13] Kelly Linden: though it is also how I accidentally kept this region offline most of last weekend
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: we pushed that issue out as fast as we could to keep the number of scripts that were going to break from the fix at a minimum
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: u endup without ram:)
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: I'm sorry we can't be more forthcoming with these issues until after they are fixed. The potential for griefing is just too great. I hope you can understand.
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: so we shipped that server Tuesday and rolled the fixes into each of the RC's from last week and redepolyed them
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: so we're basically where we were last week, with some critical security holes fixed
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: but we lost a week of forward progress
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: yep
* [15:15] Sigma Avro: anyone, have been disconected, what issue is oskar talking about ?
* [15:15] RedMokum Bravin: Think a week longer... not bad.
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: I appreciate you guys keeping eyes out for issues like these and bringing them to our attention
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: 
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: sigma ^^^
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: so the three RC's are mostly unchanged
* [15:16] Maestro Linden: we're not completely at the same place as last week. there is a new RC on LeTigre
* [15:16] Sigma Avro: tks
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel has the non crashing version of the Content Management project
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.03.22.224783
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: did I get LeTigre wrong in the release notes then maestro?
* [15:16] Kadah Coba: What is that "Content Management project"
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: Kadah, it helps with IP disputes
* [15:17] Maestro Linden: let me check, oskar. there are some bugfixes
* [15:17] Kadah Coba: More logging then?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: this had some crashing fixes
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: I can't really go into the details on the system itself for legal reasons
* [15:17] Kadah Coba: Thought so :P
* [15:17] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: yeah
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: *ahem*
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: let's leave it at that
* [15:18] Kallista DestinyKallista: Destiny chuckles
* [15:18] Coyot LindenCoyot: Linden whistles
* [15:18] RedMokum Bravin: BlueSteel regions still slow down over a week.
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: what do you mean slow?
* [15:18] Kadah Coba: Its all bubble gum and bailing twine I bet x3
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: Oskar: I would say that Letigre doesn't have the 'exact same project' as it did last week, but the visible changes are pretty much minor bug fixes
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: for over a week?
* [15:18] Kallista Destiny: We need NDAs so you cna talk to us
* [15:18] Latif Khalifa: all regions slow down over a week
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: I think maint-server covers it, no?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: kelly. your code is slow. Latif is calling you out
* [15:19] Maestro Linden: yeah, it's pretty well covered, coyot
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:19] RedMokum Bravin: They are getting laggy when they're up for some days. Even without many people on the (mainland) sims.
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I'll look at the metrics from the simulator side
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I've heard some vague reports, but no hard details
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I've heard things about tp's being slow
* [15:19] Maestro Linden: what kind of lag, RedMokum? does sim FPS appear lower, or are you talking about rez times etc?
* [15:19] RedMokum Bravin: No, just average user experience on my side.
* [15:20] RedMokum Bravin: But in several BlueSteel regions.
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: the RMB perspective?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: I can repsect that, but I need verifiable numbers to give people an incentive to look into fixing a specific release
* [15:20] RedMokum Bravin: And heavy lag showing up on Thomas Conover's parcel and border scanner, which is usually trustworthy. :-p
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, it's not exatly a secret that for the past two years sims were leaky with reasoruces and bogged down with uptime.
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: Nothing new unfortunatelly
* [15:21] RedMokum Bravin: Yup. Read many times that the leaks were being looked into.
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: some leaks get fixed, some more get made
* [15:21] Sigma Avro: Sorry Oskar, if I may ask a question, what is Estate transfer Limit ?
* [15:21] RedMokum Bravin: So I hoped if someone looked often enough... etc.
* [15:22] Jonathan Yap: They used that code analysis tool, too
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: Even so, it's worth looking into if Bluesteel suffers significantly more than other server channels
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: the estate transfer limits project was discussed in detail 2 weeks ago. you could look at the logs of this meeting from then
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: in a nutshell:
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: it's a proejct to help clarify the rules when interacting with private estates
* [15:22] Sigma Avro: ok, will look, sory for interuption
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: or with residents who are limited to estates
* [15:22] Sigma Avro: oh, ok
* [15:23] TankMaster Finesmith: ie, some teens
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: I need a way to show that BlueSteel is suffering significantly more than other regions
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: if someone can show me how to prove that, I have something to work with
* [15:23] Sigma Avro: we have not the tools you have, Oskar
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: don't think that I am doubting your claims
* [15:23] Coyot Linden: I don't see BlueSteel as being worse off in the metrics I look at
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I know that. using the tools that I have it doesn't show appreciable differences
* [15:24] Latif Khalifa: so mono2-performance is supposed to help with the slowdown with uptime?
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: kelly?
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: a suggestion would be that sim owners have this upgraded metrics tools
* [15:24] RedMokum Bravin: There are no sim owners on the main land ofcourse.
* [15:24] Kelly Linden: mono2performance should only make a difference in removing the simstall that happens when you add a mono script to a region (or an object with a mono script in it)
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: (well maybe trade secret)
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: outside of that sim and script performance should be pretty much the same
* [15:25] Flip Idlemind: mono2-performance makes it so regions don't die a painful death any time you rez stuff with mono scripts in them (if I understand it correctly)
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: That is it will prevent the anoying mini-burps
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: That is the goal
* [15:25] RedMokum Bravin: Which should be good for regions with many tp's in and out.
* [15:25] Coyot Linden: It's to cure Kelly's mono. ;)
* [15:25] Simon Linden: and region crossings
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: What are looking for on aditi are primarily serialization errors.
* [15:26] Flip Idlemind: It's the cure for Monopause
* [15:26] Latif Khalifa: but the current code freezes more and more with the uptime. is that something that this code cures?
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: If you get those it is important to try and remember the last place the object had been rezed before the rez that caused the error.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: *doh* and the puns continue
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: Latif maybe
* [15:26] Sigma Avro: well, I dont see mucwell, am on Magnum and RC, and honstly I have not the feeling of degradation of sim stall
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: mucwell?
* [15:27] Kelly Linden: Latif - if that is still an issue in mono2 performance (decrease with uptime) there are some levers I can play with to keep smaller domains.
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: Ilike levers
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: when kelly says levers he really means it. He has a whole panel in his lab, I mean basement, all tied to server configs live on agni
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: since that is what changes in mono as sims stay up longer, the mono domains get more full. :p
* [15:28] Sigma Avro: well, I have some tests done in the past. I could repeat them
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: I have another panel for aditi
* [15:28] Latif Khalifa: Kelly, most affected seem to be regions where a lot of people come and go (ie. a lot of different scritps get loaded and unloaded)
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: latif: yea.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: what is a domain in this sense?
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: I have tweaked how we handle that.
* [15:28] Draconis Neurocam: mono wants to be the master of its domain
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: mono application domains (once you load a script you cannot unload it unless you kill the whole domain)
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: mono scripts exist in a domain. Unfortunately you can't easily directly unload a script from a domain, so we do some juggling to move things around and delete domains when they get too many 'dead' scripts in them.
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: how soon are we thinking mono2-performance would see the light of day on agni kelly?
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: In a perfect world, maybe on RC after a couple weeks here.
* [15:30] Sigma Avro: as Oskar would say, mono scripts streches in sims
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: what can people here do to help the beta testing on ADITI?
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: after this meeting, we'll put mono2-performance on more aditi hosts
* [15:30] Flip Idlemind: And more importantly, what can people here do to help the beta testing on ADITI?
* [15:30] Kelly Linden: rez mono scritps, cross regions with mono scripts, file jiras for serialization or deserialization errors.
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: and on another note what can people here do to help the beta testing on ADITI?
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I'll send a message to a broader audience
* [15:31] Flip Idlemind: How would I know serialization or deserialization errors if I were seeing one?
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: it shows up like a script crash error
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: good question
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: like stack heap collision
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: only it is really ugly mono stack with Serialization or Deserialization in it
* [15:31] Sigma Avro: my scripts never crash, lol
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: kelly takes that as a challenge Sigma. careful
* [15:32] Sigma Avro: mmh, I said nothing
* [15:32] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: perhaps you're not trying hard enough then
* [15:32] Sigma Avro: (they are quite heavy)
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: I will try to compile a list of all the regions running mono2-performance and communicate that out
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: kelly do you have a public wiki page for these updates?
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: No.
* [15:33] Sigma Avro: oh, that would be nice to know them
* [15:34] Kadah Coba: A list would be very good :>
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: I will do that
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: any other questions about mono while kelly is here?
* [15:34] Kelly Linden: If you see a region that slows down because it has been up a while let me know that too. I'll pull some levers.
* [15:34] Coyot Linden: / I used one of these scripts to animate pond water. When I was done, I "Saved Mono Lake"
* [15:35] Psi Merlin: Please load mono2-performance on Snark if you can.
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: coyot should b able to help with that
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: yep
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: the snarky sims get mono
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: can do, Psi
* [15:35] Flip Idlemind: Don't look now but I think I just saw some of those serialization errors
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: If I don't softly and swiftly vanish away
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: catch them flip!
* [15:36] NielArcher: and: on Cichlid please
* [15:36] Latif Khalifa: sorry about that
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: and on Cichlid coyot
* [15:36] Coyot Linden: rge
* [15:36] Coyot Linden: rgr*
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: any other takers for mono2-performance?
* [15:37] Latif Khalifa: it seems to get into some loop when it fails to deserialize
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: it seems to get into some loop when it fails to deserialize
* [15:37] Psi MerlinPsi: Merlin smiles - Thanks.. As always the test group is welcome to contace me if a EO is helpfull for testing.
* [15:37] Kelly Linden: failing to serialize or deserialize will break the object and it will forever after fail to serialize or deserialize because length is 0.
* [15:38] Kelly Linden: it is that first error we need to track and fix.
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: kelly i have this one corrupted object
* [15:38] Kelly Linden: corrupted from when?
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: the old sim just prints failed to deserialze and that's it
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: when i tried to rez it here, it started printing them in a loop
* [15:38] Kelly Linden: 'old sim'?
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: it got corrupted way back when
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: this talker has no name
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: oh. do NOT rez that
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: o.O
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: I don't want that.
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: yes please don't - it'll confuse us ;)
* [15:39] Latif Khalifa: lol, why not?
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: I mean you can, it will still give you an error
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: but it is useless for me and will basically just polute the data we are watching
* [15:39] Maestro LindenMaestro: Linden was scanning for 'bad' simstates containing corrupt objects earlier today, and wiped some
* [15:39] Flip Idlemind: Was it that pigeon?
* [15:39] Latif Khalifa: yes, my evil pigeon
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: this isn't going to fix anything that was corrupted before
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: What we are watching for is new things getting corrupted.
* [15:40] Oskar LindenOskar: Linden purges Latif's assets
* [15:40] Oskar LindenOskar: Linden makes a *tchhhhhhhhhhhhh* sound while he does it
* [15:40] Rex Cronon: corrupted? how?
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: so if you have stuff that broke in 1.36/38 rezzing it now it will still be broken and will make it harder for us to find if anything new is getting broken
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: kelly i know, but it looked like it was looping with deserialization error. pre mono2-performance prints deserialization error once
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: you heard kelly. don't rez legacy broken stuff
* [15:41] Oskar LindenOskar: Linden puts out a sign
* [15:41] Kelly Linden: Yeah, we saw that too. I'm not sure why. I think it is just spammier - there are more logs in performance so we can get a better idea of what is actually causing the problem.
* [15:41] Kelly Linden: I may have to tone the logs back before release
* [15:42] Latif Khalifa: ok i will not rez corrupted script code here anymore :)
* [15:42] Kelly Linden: thanks. :)
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: feel free to corrupt new objects though!
* [15:42] Sigma Avro: well sorry, but never got this, except when developing a script. Is that on letgigre and blue steel only ?
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: it's on ADITI now
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: it might get to AGNI in a few weeks
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: specifically the 'mono2performance' channel of Aditi
* [15:43] Sigma Avro: ok, lol, sorry
* [15:43] Rex Cronon: how is this cooruption happening? u have 2 give them dugs?
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: you can see what your region is on from About Second Life
* [15:43] Sigma Avro: (met kadafi maybe)
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: for those who didn't know
* [15:43] TankMaster Finesmith: you given them to a senitor to play with, rex
* [15:44] Draconis Neurocam: or with llgetenv if you script
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: has anyone messed with the new XMPP project vwr?
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#XMPP_Group_Chat
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: besides Latif
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: yes, llgetenv is really handy when you're testing various server versions..
* [15:44] Jonathan Yap: I tried the xmpp viewer today but it would not connect
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: We have yeah I got that too
* [15:44] Kallista Destiny: I just downloaded it
* [15:44] Kelly Linden: we are hopeing to not see new corruption, and if we do find it, then it will push back the release of this to agni obviously.
* [15:44] NielArcher: not: recently :-(
* [15:44] Jonathan Yap: I think there is a cert problem
* [15:44] Homeless: does: the new project vwr have mesh?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: only mesh vwr has mesh
* [15:45] Latif Khalifa: i didn't touch xmpp since you decided developing it needed a new grid
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: I'vw put Cichlid and Snark on mono2perf, it will activate with the next restart
* [15:45] Homeless: I: didn't get it, have too many vwrs already
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: we no have ADITI set up as a BETA testing environment for the XMPP project viewer
* [15:45] TankMaster Finesmith: there is no windows build for the nightly XMPP
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: and we use Damballah as a development environment
* [15:45] Sigma Avro: viewer is working, but xmpp dont know if it is on aditi only ?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: ?
* [15:46] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, I can connect with pidgin but have to go around a certificate issue
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: The project viewer should understand grids
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it does
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: well as much as any vwr does
* [15:46] Kelly Linden: I need to log out now. I have a semi-official usergroup (a meeting in the Sim usergroup umbrella) on mondays at 9 for script stuff on the calendar now. See ya guys
* [15:46] Kallista Destiny: lols
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: take care Kelly
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: tc
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:46] Draconis Neurocam: why did you move away from hindu gods for server names
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: thanks kelly
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: cya
* [15:46] TankMaster Finesmith: tc kelly
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: is there a wiki link kelly?
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: by Kelly
* [15:46] NielArcher: bye: kelly
* [15:47] Draconis Neurocam: bye kelly
* [15:47] Kelly Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Scripting_User_Group ?
* [15:47] TankMaster Finesmith: its on there
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: nice
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: thanks Kelly
* [15:47] Latif Khalifa: I've heard there are some people taking bets, which comes out first, mesh or duke nuke them forever ;)
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: hey now
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: isn't duke out yet:)
* [15:48] Kadah Coba: Duke Nukem Forever has a release date of May 3rd
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: at least we let people play with mesh while we're working on it
* [15:48] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: how many of you have ran duke nukem forever?
* [15:48] Latif Khalifa: Kadah, postponed again
* [15:48] Psi Merlin: Duke has been pushed back - again!
* [15:48] Flip Idlemind: Speaking of Mesh, I think it's worth mentioning that since the last update to the Mesh sims, it seems that regular sculpts appear messed up (on Phoenix at least)
* [15:48] Kadah Coba: Maybe, but last I heard this morning it was still the 3rd
* [15:48] Coyot LindenCoyot: Linden prefers the Duke of URL
* [15:49] Draconis Neurocam: flip did you try changing the object type to something else then back to sculpt, it happened to my hat and that fixed it
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: the mesh server had some issues
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: not sure if it got fixed or not
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: yeah, it got falcon working on it ;)
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:50] Latif Khalifa: tjat's its main issue :P
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: we just need a few more of him
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: for balance
* [15:50] Kadah Coba: How close is XMPP being feature complete in the viewer?
* [15:50] Rex Cronon: meshes have their own server?
* [15:50] Coyot Linden: not close
* [15:51] Kadah Coba: The server stuff seems to have a way to go though
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: Kadah, meshes, xmpp and duke nuke'em ;)
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: meshes have their own server branch
* [15:51] Sigma AvroSigma: Avro wanders how some function will work on meshes: with phys prim ?
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: did anyone get a chance to stress test RayCasting?
* [15:51] Kadah Coba: I just wondering when I should start experimenting with pulling the XMPP code in Pheonix
* [15:51] Flip Idlemind: Yeah I pounded on it with a hammer
* [15:52] Draconis Neurocam: i wasnt able to log into aditi last weekend oskar, or i would have
* [15:52] Homeless: I: played with ray casting and am getting the hang of it
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: cool. how is it?
* [15:52] Sigma Avro: strees it with meshes :)
* [15:52] Homeless: actually: pretty easy
* [15:52] Flip Idlemind: Seems fine. Nothing caught fire
* [15:52] Rex Cronon: everybody needs a ray gun and fight has 2 start:)
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: stress the pants off of it
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: de-pants mr falcon for me
* [15:52] Homeless: it: seems to be just a detector that returns uuid and loactions
* [15:52] Sigma Avro: lol
* [15:53] Flip Idlemind: Is putting llCastRay into a while(TRUE) loop stressful enough?
* [15:53] Homeless: I: suppose I could try 200 hits to see what happens
* [15:53] Sigma Avro: no it does much more
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: in the 8 minutes left in this hour does anyone have anything else to go over?
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: 7 minutes
* [15:53] Kallista Destiny: fast minutes here...
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: i know
* [15:53] Homeless: I: have a weapons question
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: time with me just flies along
* [15:53] Sigma Avro: Yes, for meshes, would like to know how faces will be detected, for instance
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: ok homeless
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:54] Homeless: If: you know somepone's loaction, can you bobm them?
* [15:54] Homeless: bomb: 
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: I do not know how to detect mesh faces
* [15:54] Homeless: cause: damage
* [15:54] Rex Cronon: fly?
* [15:54] Conover's Flight-Helper: 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: llDetectedTouchFace()?
* [15:54] Kallista Destiny: Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a peach.
* [15:54] Sigma Avro: 25000 faces ?
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:54] Draconis Neurocam: sigma when you make a mesh in blender at least if you make different materials, it will count as different normal prim faces when uploaded, up to 8
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: define bomb them homeless?
* [15:55] Draconis Neurocam: faces you define when making it
* [15:55] Liisa Runo: can bomb them, and the bomb will cause llDamage only if the land is damage enabled
* [15:55] ANSI Soderstrom: hi all
* [15:55] Homeless: my: thought was using raycast as a weapon
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: hi
* [15:55] Sigma Avro: nah, not sure will work so.
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: sculpts only have 1 face, but meshes can have up to 8 (as draconis said)
* [15:55] Homeless: without: using physical objects
* [15:56] Sigma Avro: ok
* [15:56] NielArcher: hi: ANSI
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: a mesh face may visually be different than like the sides of a box right?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: hi ansi
* [15:56] Sigma Avro: and raycast will detected these 8 faces only ?
* [15:56] Draconis Neurocam: yeah, cept it wont be as easy to texture depending on how you uv mapped it oskar
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: yes, because only 8 faces exist :)
* [15:57] Latif Khalifa: wow scripts are really slow here
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: of course you could have 2 mesh prims linked togeter for more faces..
* [15:57] Sigma Avro: well, they exist on computers
* [15:57] Sigma Avro: sure, ok. It is clerare so, tks
* [15:57] Liisa Runo: Ray dont damage people, i guess it is meant for resident made weapon systems that dont use llDamage. Personally i think most weapons will continue using old methods and ray will be used to other stuff
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: tossing prims isn't the most efficient way to simulate bullets
* [15:58] Draconis Neurocam: ray casting is nice to know when a bullet needs to be fired, as if knowing when it will hit someone, rather than just spamming the bullets
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: I suspect that llCastRay may eventually replace combat systems that use llSensor currently
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: what is efficent?
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: llCastRay is more efficient than throwing scripted prims
* [15:59] Kallista Destiny: actually if ray is used to detect a target then a message can be set to the target saying 'you've been hit' just like they do now with llSensor
* [15:59] Flip Idlemind: You can use llCastRay to find your "victims" and then rez a damage prim right on them, rather than using the damage prim as a projectile
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: raycast is nice for copybooting
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: lol
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: oh yeah sigma?
* [15:59] Kallista Destiny: well you need to get withing shouting distance to send the message...
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: to painfull
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: *too
* [16:00] Sigma Avro: yes, it can be used as a scanner Oskar
* [16:00] Liisa Runo: can detect enemy with a key and then rez one nonphys prim to deliver the damage, also works over borders unlike ray
* [16:00] Maestro Linden: hm, then for the 'copybotted' object, you can recreate it with thousands of tiny boxes? :)
* [16:01] Sigma Avro: well, it just gives the shapes of basic prims, so no worries
* [16:01] Draconis Neurocam: yeah monoperformance is nice for rezzing lots of mono prims
* [16:01] Latif Khalifa: there is you copybot
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: and there we go. another full hour of face time with the Lindens :-)
* [16:01] Marigold Devin: haha photocopying his backside
* [16:01] Eddi Decosta: yay :P
* [16:01] Marigold Devin: haha
* [16:01] Kadah Coba: lol
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: uh oh someone is copybotting eddi!
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: we don't see faces here
* [16:02] Sigma Avro: lol. Thanks to eternal Lindens
* [16:02] Marigold Devin: Nice ass, Eddi
* [16:02] Kallista Destiny: Thank you Oskar
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: whew
* [16:02] Kadah Coba: Copybotbutting
* [16:02] Coffee Maker: Request accepted, Please wait..
* [16:02] Eddi Decosta: Hahaha
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: I had to return it
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: there can be only one eddi
* [16:02] Liisa Runo: what i really want ray for, is to make nonphys car that roll nicely over prim surfaces
* [16:02] Sigma Avro: lol, nices cups
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks everyone for coming and contributing!
* [16:02] Coffee Maker: Thanks you, Have a nice day Kadah
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: try it liisa
* [16:02] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: let me know if it works
* [16:03] Homeless: thanks: for having us Oskar!
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: I wanna see it
* [16:03] Rex Cronon: tc everyboy
* [16:03] Liisa Runo: i have tried it, now waiting it to hit main grid
* [16:03] Latif Khalifa: lol oskar
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: can you show me later?
* [16:03] Liisa Runo: updating my inv made it go poof, but i can re-do it
* [16:03] Maestro Linden: thanks for coming, guys. I'll finish this mono2performance deploy now...
* [16:03] Draconis Neurocam: thanks to all the lindens, and take care
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: oh noes
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: let me know
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: I'd love to see it
* [16:03] Liisa Runo: will
* [16:03] Latif Khalifa: have fun maestro
* [16:03] Sigma Avro: tks Maestro
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: will do :)
* [16:04] Psi Merlin: Thanks Oskar and Co.
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: you all have a great week!
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [16:04] Lares Carter: Thanks for the time Lindens