Viewer Evolution User Group/Archive/2011-05-13

08:01 	Tonya Souther  	Morning, Oz.
08:02 	Oz Linden  	Hi everyone
  	Ima Mechanique  	hi
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	good morning
  	XӘΛ  	Hey Oz 'n all
  	Oz Linden  	Greetings from your friendly neighborhood "open source freak tyrant" :-)
08:03 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	hehe
  	XӘΛ  	haha!
  	Ashiri Sands  	=^_^=
  	Tonya Souther  	smiles. "Is there a story there, Oz?"
08:04 	Oz Linden  	(see Prokofy blog post earlier this week)
  	Ima Mechanique  	ooh, I try not to do that
  	Oz Linden  	one has to notice when one is the subject
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	yeah, I make a point to steer clear of proky
  	Ashiri Sands  	rot's one's brain
  	Tonya Souther  	avoids Prokofy's blog. She prefers to read her fiction in book form.
08:05 	Ima Mechanique  	although the breast you have in my viewer might account for the "freak"
  	Oz Linden  	Let's jump right in.... Ongoing:
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	that's true, being singled out in a post would probably make me curious too
  	  	let the tyranny begin :)
  	XӘΛ  	everyone here is guilty by association
08:06 	Oz Linden  	gpu table updates are coming along....
  	  	I expect I'll check something in today
08:07 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	excellent. if there's any info you need beyond what you've got, let me know
  	Oz Linden  	I will, doubtless, be introducing some errors, but on the whole I think it will be much better
  	  	many many thanks to all those who've helped on this
  	  	Windlight....
08:08 	  	making progress (I'm running a viewer with it now)
  	Wolfpup  	i forgot the meeting was over here
  	Oz Linden  	but at the moment, all the dialogs for editing settings are lying in pieces on the floor waiting to be reassembled
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	yeah - I'd sent you a nc last weekend with the names of some estate owners who'd be willing to participate
08:09 	Oz Linden  	as soon as those are put back together and had a round of basic QA, we'lll put out a project viewer
  	  	I got those, and much appreciate it. More are welcome
08:10 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	ok, I'll check with a couple others if I can catch them
  	oobscure  	i'm estate manager , is that enough ?
  	Oz Linden  	I think WL region settings will be a big win... and hope that when we get the code out (probably around the same time we put out a project viewer), that TPVs will pick it up
08:11 	  	yes, estate manager is what you need to set the region settings
  	Tonya Souther  	I'm EM on my own sim too.
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	yeah, I was meaning to ask you, are single regions helpful too?
  	Oz Linden  	sure
  	XӘΛ  	Cool. I'd definitely be looking to help out.
08:12 	Oz Linden  	Especially anyone who has issues with creating the ambiance they want....
  	  	I'm planning to have fun with these two regions :-)
08:13 	  	but I'll try to make most meeting times not too disruptive
  	  	Filtering media ....
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	it does smooth transitions too, doesn't it? it won't be 8:13 setting a, 8:14 blink to setting b
08:14 	Oz Linden  	I found some documentation (internally) on how to fix the test problem that's been blocking this, and will be moving that doc to the external wiki once I verify by fixing the test that the doc is correct
  	  	Right - between keyframes, the settings segue smoothly from one setting to the next
08:15 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	excellent ,thanks
08:16 	  	possibly related to the media filtering, was there some kind of security issue related to media?
  	Oz Linden  	one effect of that is that if you want an extended time with stable settings, followed by some substantial change, then you have to put the same setting on two keyframes at either end of the stable period
  	  	but you get 20 keyframes per "daycylcle"
08:17 	  	not a security issue per see.... we found a crash in the old version of the ogg/vorbis libraries and recommended an upgrade
  	Cinder Eichel  	with libvorbis trilobyte
  	XӘΛ  	cool. Any thought about scripted control of region wl yet?
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	ah ok
08:18 	Oz Linden  	scripted control is not on the roadmap at the moment
  	XӘΛ  	'k
  	Oz Linden  	that would, in any event, be server side, not viewer
08:19 	  	restrictions on storing/transferring.... no progress on that (sorry, oobscure)... just because I'm swamped
  	  	vwr-25713
08:20 	oobscure  	ok, personally i have no hurry about that inventory issues. just a big longstanding inconsistent behaviour but not urgent.
08:22 	Oz Linden  	Someone has been assigned to that vwr, but it's been moved (incorrectly) so it's become invisible... will track that down
  	  	anyway, there is a cleanup pass planned on display names; not sure when it will happen thought
08:23 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	that would be server-side though, too, wouldn't it?
  	Tonya Souther  	what's the cleanup involve, Oz?
  	Oz Linden  	I do know that someone is compiling a list of issues, so if you have gripes about DN and how it's used somewhere that are not already in jira, now would be a good time
08:24 	  	well, fixing things like the fact that you can't filter/search on real account names in the people panel
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	the main thing I'm hearing about is the delay in populating the names list
  	Oz Linden  	the delay is a server issue.... not sure what the story is on that
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	I suspect that's also related to why some larger groups are failing to open consistently lately, they're timing out while waiting for the list to populate
08:25 	Oz Linden  	that's possible. If you turn on debug level logging, the DN cache becomes pretty chatty about what it's doing
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	the only other DN issue I can think of is VWR-24211
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24211
VWR-24211 Display Name should show when using actions (/me) in Group Chat
08:26 	Oz Linden  	so if you feel like looking into it, let me know and I can find the log config to turn that on
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	actions in group chats and p2p
08:28 	  	no need to look it up on my account, my bandwidth is low-ish and I'm kind of waiting to find out more about what's going on with the big picture of group chat
  	Oz Linden  	I am told that the chat team believes they are making progress, but nothing is deployed yet
08:29 	  	VWR-23121
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23121
VWR-23121 Minimising interface clutter for Viewer 2.0/Snowstorm
  	Oz Linden  	interesting collection of issues....
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	that has some good stuff in there
08:30 	  	personally I'm ok with the sidebar most of the time, but if that could be turned off, it would be huge for a lot of ppl
  	Oz Linden  	There is a _lot_ of design work going on in that area. Too early for me to be able to discuss conclusions (there aren't any yet)
08:31 	  	("that area" meaning cleaning up the UI)
  	Tonya Souther  	I hope someone points out to the folks doing the design that screen real estate is the single most expensive resource the viewer can use.
  	Oz Linden  	I'm hopeful that when we have some new goals settled, that I can get someone from the UX team to come here and present them
  	Tonya Souther  	So wasting it borders on criminal.
08:32 	XӘΛ  	*cough*tearoffwindows*cough*
  	Oz Linden  	yes... trust me... I repeated that point several times when meeting with the UX team lead this week (and he almost always agreed with me)
  	Tonya Souther  	great!
08:33 	Oz Linden  	VWR-25714 ....
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25714
VWR-25714 Poor responsiveness of Profile and IM buttons in People search
08:34 	Oz Linden  	hard to say what that might be about... I'll pass it on to the search team
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	I'm not experiencing it here
08:35 	  	maybe a 1 second delay between clicking on profile and the profile window being open
  	  	and instantaneous with IM's
08:36 	Oz Linden  	SVC-6898
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6898
SVC-6898 Switching language in preferences creates new calling cards folders for each language
  	oobscure  	i think this should have been removed from agenda
  	Oz Linden  	I believe someone is working on getting the duplicate folders cleaned up from the backend
  	  	yes, I'll remove this for next week
08:37 	Cinder Eichel  	VWR-25714 is the same issue as VWR-24809
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24809
VWR-24809 Mini-Map Profile Button Not Working The First Time
08:38 	Oz Linden  	hmmm... had not seen that one....
08:39 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	I'm not able to reproduce that one either. Perhaps the delay is more an issue of internet connection speed
  	Oz Linden  	spacenavigator on linux... obviously, no progress :-(
  	Cinder Eichel  	it could be, it happens a lot for me but my dsl peaks at 3mb/sec
  	Jenova Spires  	Loading profiles seems to be happening much more quickly, and reliably for me during the last 3 or 4 days or so.
08:40 	Oz Linden  	that issue is likely to be more about latency and congestion at any given time than about bandwidth
  	Cinder Eichel  	you'll hear the audio cue that you've opened it, but the window never opens.
  	Oz Linden  	Is your DSL symettric, Cinder? if not, then the uplink is probably more important than down for that problem
08:41 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	true, my connection's likely low latency as well as zippy
  	Cinder Eichel  	no it's adsl, and it performs poorly
  	  	bad coppy from the TNI
  	  	*copper
  	Oz Linden  	I used to work for a company that made DSL gear... I'm all too familiar with its "issues"
08:42 	Cinder Eichel  	nods 'well i'm switching to cable soon, so we'll see if it goes away'
  	  	lol
  	Oz Linden  	VWR-25525
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25525
VWR-25525 Improvements to handling of user group permissions on parcels
08:43 	Oz Linden  	I discussed this general topic with UX this week, and while we may take on some minor stuff around the edges, group/permissions issues are not likely to be a priority for a while
08:44 	TriloByte Zanzibar 	I'm not sure if that would be more of a server-side thing (automatic detection if user belongs to the right group), but I like the idea a lot
  	Oz Linden  	while we agree that there are some annoying problems there, they seem to be ones that most users learn to deal with
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	billions of returned prims would vote on the issue if they could
  	Cinder Eichel  	lol
08:45 	Oz Linden  	for the quarter or three we're focused on usability issues that are more disruptive
  	Tonya Souther  	it's not like there aren't enoug of those.
  	Oz Linden  	like lag in general, chat, etc
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	tell that to the newish resident who's trying to furnish their home with the wrong tag on, it's disruptive enough
  	  	true
08:46 	Oz Linden  	one thing we may do is try to provide better error indications, including advice on how to adjust, but that's still tbd
08:47 	  	storm-1189 ... I think we beat that one to death last week
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1189
STORM-1189 Remove Classic Clouds
  	Oz Linden  	(need to edit the agenda better)
  	  	vwr-257111
  	  	vwr-25711
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25711
VWR-25711 Display entry permission warnings for inaccessible parcels
08:48 	Oz Linden  	vwr-25712
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25712
VWR-25712 Display entry permissions warnings for teleports
  	Oz Linden  	these are the sort of things I meant... some things where we could be more clear about why you can't do what you're trying to do.
08:49 	  	and perhaps what you can do about it
  	  	which exhausts the agenda !
  	  	The floor is open for 10 minutes
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	w00t
  	Ima Mechanique  	storm-959
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-959
STORM-959 LSL multiline comments
08:50 	Ima Mechanique  	nothing seems to be happening with this
08:51 	Oz Linden  	since Luminos didn't do anything with it, I've reassigned to you to get it into the process properly, Ima
  	  	thanks
  	Ima Mechanique  	okay, already have the repo up ;-)
08:52 	oobscure  	VWR-25655
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25655
VWR-25655 Build button isn't enabled when activating group on land where building is restricted to group members
  	XӘΛ  	thanx for unhiding EXP-798
  	Oz Linden  	why am I not surprised?
  	Liisa Runo  	dont we already have multiline comments?
  	Oz Linden  	Yes.. that project was not set up to make vwr issues remain visible when moved, but I believe that's been fixed now
  	Ima Mechanique  	Liisa, it's just the highlighting of them in the editor
08:53 	Liisa Runo  	ah
  	Jenova Spires  	I've noticed something lately; don't know if this is the right place or time, but it seems like there's an inter-viewer Ruthing issue lately. Viewer 2 users see each other's avatars okay, but Phoenix users see us as Ruthed, and vice versa.
08:54 	Oz Linden  	yup
  	oobscure  	Jenova, that relates to Avatar Physics
  	Oz Linden  	VWR-25479
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25479
VWR-25479 Avatar physics causing broken shapes on other viewers until they clear cache
  	Ima Mechanique  	yup, Oz is ruthed to me now. very disturbing with the beard
  	Oz Linden  	the summary is not quite correct
08:55 	Jenova Spires  	Yeah, it's resulted in some really funny snapshots around some of my usual hangouts.
  	Oz Linden  	AP isn't actually the cause - it's really a 1.x bug that AP tickles much more frequently
  	Liisa Runo  	not only phoenix users. All old clients and all 4rd party clients exept one see v2 users as ruth. == most of the people see v2 users as ruth
  	Oz Linden  	for example, I'm not using AP on this av
  	Liisa Runo  	3rd*
08:56 	Oz Linden  	Phoenix has (or is about to?) put out an update with the fix, as have a number of other TPVs
  	Tonya Souther  	About to.
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	has anybody run into issues with avatars going all alpha as well? I talk to a couple ppl who experience the problem a lot, regardless of viewer they're using
08:57 	Ima Mechanique  	hehe I have, but it's deliberate
  	Liisa Runo  	i have seen it couple times, very rarely, im using snowglobe
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	they say it persists even after cache clearing or running the character test
08:58 	  	I've never experienced it myself (other than when deliberately alpha)
08:59 	Jenova Spires  	I've noticed the "No Feet" alpha seems to very briefly make the bottom half of my avatar invisible, but only when first putting it on, or changing into an outfit that includes it.
  	Oz Linden  	there is a bug in the TPV breast physics that can cause that (we had a version of the bug in some development versions of our AP too, but it's fixed)
  	Tonya Souther  	Our current thinking, BTW, is that we'll go ahead and include full AP in Phoenix, and remove the existing code a tthe same time.
09:00 	Oz Linden  	if you do, you'll switch directly from being affected by the old bug to triggering it in other 1.x viewers :-)
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	now if only you'd add full multi-wearables support
  	  	:)
  	Tonya Souther  	We know that.
  	  	So we're also including a switch to turn sending the extra AvatarAppearance parameters off.
  	Oz Linden  	on the other hand, you'll also solve the problem for a very large population, so thank you
09:01 	Tonya Souther  	Including full AP is still a bit up in the air, but we do want to do that.
  	Oz Linden  	you've already got it in Firestorm though, right?
  	Tonya Souther  	Yes.
09:02 	  	And the switch to disable sending parms, too.
  	Oz Linden  	I've got to get ready for my scrum standup (ie ... finish something)
  	  	Thanks for coming, everyone
  	Cinder Eichel  	tonya, siana gearz has ported it to her viewer as well if you want to look at singularity on github.
  	oobscure  	thanks oz, bye
  	TriloByte Zanzibar 	please also consider multi-wearables (layers specifically) to phoenix, on behalf of your userbase
  	Tonya Souther  	That's where we got it for Phoenix.
  	XӘΛ  	thanks Oz
  	Ima Mechanique  	tc Oz