Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-01-23

[2014/01/23 15:02] Inara Breen: /me grins
[2014/01/23 15:02] MartinRJ Fayray: hi Whirlz!
[2014/01/23 15:02] Margithe: ...hope that got logged.
[2014/01/23 15:02] Whirly Fizzle: Heyas :)
[2014/01/23 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/01/23 15:03] Inara Breen: Hi, Maestro
[2014/01/23 15:03] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro
[2014/01/23 15:03] Monty Linden: it's been awhile, meeting area's changed again
[2014/01/23 15:03] Jenna Felton: hi Maestro, Psi
[2014/01/23 15:03] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Monty
[2014/01/23 15:03] Margithe: it has to change to accomodate all the Twerk
[2014/01/23 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Monty is our special guest today
[2014/01/23 15:04] Psi Merlin: HI everyone
[2014/01/23 15:04] rcdsQueChatLog: Margithe Resident, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/01/23 15:04] MartinRJ Fayray: hello Monty, hello Maestro
[2014/01/23 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, here's the agenda: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/01/23 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I have the usual updates, and Monty will talk about his ongoing HTTP work
[2014/01/23 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Let's get the updates out of the way first
[2014/01/23 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oops, I have to correct the main channel posting
[2014/01/23 15:06] Whirly Fizzle: Oh Monty, seeing as you're here. One of your long standing DNS bug users is also fixed with the HTTP project viewer. This dude https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3430 . he's now begging for your changes in Firestorm heh
[2014/01/23 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but the main channel got the project that was on all 3 RCs
[2014/01/23 15:06] Monty Linden: haha, good! get to work!
[2014/01/23 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the main channel update included a number of changes, including the uniform scaling functions
[2014/01/23 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the RCs got a new project, which only includes a single crash fix
[2014/01/23 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): unless you happen to be triggering that crash on your region, I wouldn't expect any changes with the RC update
[2014/01/23 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): We'll have another small maintenance project going out next week too
[2014/01/23 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which includes another crash fix and a fix to llModifyLand()
[2014/01/23 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the llModifyLand() bug is that calling it in a child prim modifies the wrong land
[2014/01/23 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: grat, now I won't have to have 4096 land modifier objects in my sim, heh
[2014/01/23 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: *great
[2014/01/23 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): For example, if a child prim is offset by <8,4,0> from the root prim,
[2014/01/23 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): then calling that function in teh child prim will try to modify the terrain at <8,4,0> of the region
[2014/01/23 15:10] Duckie Dickins: neat. :)
[2014/01/23 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which may or may not work depending on who owns the parcel
[2014/01/23 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, the fix is to make ti modify the land underneath the child prim
[2014/01/23 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (which of course follows the same permissions rules - you can only modify land owned by the script owner)
[2014/01/23 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Anyway, that's all that I have for updates
[2014/01/23 15:11] Lucia Nightfire: too bad I have to friggin be in the region to do taht
[2014/01/23 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Monty, are you ready to talk about your work?
[2014/01/23 15:11] Lucia Nightfire: wish it just checked if the land owner is the script owner
[2014/01/23 15:11] Monty Linden: sure
[2014/01/23 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, the permissions for that function are a little special..
[2014/01/23 15:11] Monty Linden: We'll start with the blog post:
[2014/01/23 15:11] Monty Linden: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/Raising-the-Roof-The-HTTP-Project/ba-p/2416075
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: A new viewer is in RC which does significant work on
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: mesh uploads and downloads and this was a good
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: time to describe what I have been doing and what I might
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: do as next steps.
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: Hence the tech blog post with nice picture and descriptions
[2014/01/23 15:12] Monty Linden: and curves and stuff.
[2014/01/23 15:13] Monty Linden: Basically, *my* hope is to move http operations to a
[2014/01/23 15:13] Monty Linden: domain where ping time has far less impact on experience
[2014/01/23 15:13] Monty Linden: as well as just diong HTTP better.
[2014/01/23 15:13] Monty Linden: And that is happening.
[2014/01/23 15:14] Monty Linden: Next step is HTTP pipelining but I got a bit of a
[2014/01/23 15:14] Monty Linden: scope creep issue when I saw the condition of our 3rd-party
[2014/01/23 15:14] Monty Linden: libraries and I'm including some updates and cleanup
[2014/01/23 15:14] Monty Linden: in that work.
[2014/01/23 15:14] Monty Linden: HTTP pipelining will be the first major step that does
[2014/01/23 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which 3rd party libs would be related - libcurl?
[2014/01/23 15:15] Monty Linden: give us some ping time independence and it will likely
[2014/01/23 15:15] Monty Linden: get a bit of server work as well.
[2014/01/23 15:15] Monty Linden: The server work will be small, a change in fairness policies and
[2014/01/23 15:15] Monty Linden: throttle implementation but that isn't set in stone yet.
[2014/01/23 15:16] Monty Linden: libraries (subject to change):
[2014/01/23 15:16] Monty Linden: zlib, libpng, openssl, ares, libcurl, boost, sdl
[2014/01/23 15:16] Monty Linden: plus tweaks to colladadom, openjpeg, google-mock and llqtwebkit
[2014/01/23 15:16] Monty Linden: (the last one makes me weep)
[2014/01/23 15:17] Monty Linden: that work should be one step on the way to 64-bit though that
[2014/01/23 15:17] Monty Linden: is a bit early at this point
[2014/01/23 15:17] Monty Linden: may help TPVDs.
[2014/01/23 15:18] Monty Linden: New viewer itself is here, btw:
[2014/01/23 15:18] Monty Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Project_HTTP/3.6.13.284698
[2014/01/23 15:18] Monty Linden: On the mesh aspect...
[2014/01/23 15:19] Monty Linden: Maestro mentioned that there were some questions about
[2014/01/23 15:19] Monty Linden: mesh operations.
[2014/01/23 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes,
[2014/01/23 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia had a claim that surprised me
[2014/01/23 15:19] Monty Linden: As part of the HTTP work, I had to dig through the existing
[2014/01/23 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but Monty confirmed that she was right
[2014/01/23 15:19] Margithe: /me tries to see the differance between that, and http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.6.14.285253
[2014/01/23 15:19] Monty Linden: implementation and I found a few things.
[2014/01/23 15:20] Lucia Nightfire: wha, huh
[2014/01/23 15:20] Lucia Nightfire: what I do?
[2014/01/23 15:20] Monty Linden: (Margithe: yours is better - the RC versus the project viewer)
[2014/01/23 15:20] Lucia Nightfire: I forgot, heh
[2014/01/23 15:20] Monty Linden: but same viewer (just different channel)
[2014/01/23 15:20] Margithe: ((thanks. ))
[2014/01/23 15:20] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): The claim was that mesh object assets are progressively loaded based on LoD needs. So if you were to login to a region and viewed a certain mesh from a distance only, the viewer would only download the necessary parts of the mesh asset for the current detail view (and would need to fetch the rest later if the LoD increased).
[2014/01/23 15:20] Monty Linden: One bug fix plus the executable name fix on windows in the RC
[2014/01/23 15:21] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, I also claimed it wasn't like that for sculpts, but I think I was wrong
[2014/01/23 15:21] Monty Linden: That's correct, maestro, for a version of 'the right LOD'
[2014/01/23 15:21] Lucia Nightfire: as I witnessed the contrary today
[2014/01/23 15:21] Inara Breen: Err.. monty, shouldn't that viewer reference be: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.6.14.285253 (apologies if not, only watching with 1/2 and eye due to RL)
[2014/01/23 15:21] Monty Linden: Four LoDs are available and can be controlled by
[2014/01/23 15:21] Monty Linden: debug settings for the experimental.
[2014/01/23 15:22] Monty Linden: But like textures, yes, there's a degree of size optimization available.
[2014/01/23 15:22] Monty Linden: Some documentation is now appearing in the mesh code for those
[2014/01/23 15:22] Lucia Nightfire: its wise for it to be that way anyway as loading all detail levels if you're not requesting them can be taxing on the servers
[2014/01/23 15:22] Monty Linden: who really want some details.
[2014/01/23 15:22] Monty Linden: Link in the agenda which gives the new llmeshrepository.cpp code
[2014/01/23 15:23] Monty Linden: hara: yes, that's the RC viewer
[2014/01/23 15:24] Monty Linden: (I gave out the project viewer)
[2014/01/23 15:24] Monty Linden: that's my story
[2014/01/23 15:25] Monty Linden: (hara => Inara, I can't read today :-)
[2014/01/23 15:25] Jenna Felton: What mesh uploads you mentoined Monty?
[2014/01/23 15:26] Jenna Felton: [15:11] Monty Linden: mesh uploads and downloads and this was a good
 [15:11] Monty Linden: time to ....
[2014/01/23 15:26] Monty Linden: mesh uploads were switched over to the new HTTP code
[2014/01/23 15:26] Margithe: That is all good to know- especially since then leaving the lowest LOD with no mesh rendered (no model or setting it to 0) can have a meaning
[2014/01/23 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, neat
[2014/01/23 15:26] Monty Linden: result should be a more reliable experience overall with
[2014/01/23 15:27] Monty Linden: better notification of failures.
[2014/01/23 15:27] Monty Linden: Wasn't able to do as much as I liked, but it is getting better.
[2014/01/23 15:27] Jenna Felton: ok, just that upload when you create the new mesh item
[2014/01/23 15:27] Monty Linden: yep
[2014/01/23 15:27] Monty Linden: build tool
[2014/01/23 15:28] Margithe: which would be good news to the people that often run into errors uploading rigged mesh?
[2014/01/23 15:28] Monty Linden: would *really* love to get feedback on mesh errors in the viewer rather than the log file but not today.
[2014/01/23 15:28] Monty Linden: should be better for them, yes
[2014/01/23 15:30] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): What sort of asset fetch changes are you planning to make on the simulator side, in the medium to long run?
[2014/01/23 15:31] Monty Linden: Not much but the throttle that currently sends 503s may start actually throttling and not generate errors.
[2014/01/23 15:32] Monty Linden: Part of avoiding errors in pipelined traffic.
[2014/01/23 15:32] Monty Linden: Gonig faster with less resources
[2014/01/23 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): sounds good to me!
[2014/01/23 15:35] Nal (nalates.urriah): Are you thinking you will eventually get SL using SPDY?
[2014/01/23 15:35] Monty Linden: I'd like to PoC it but when I'll have time... I do not know.
[2014/01/23 15:37] Margithe: When do we get to drill baker about Group bans again?
[2014/01/23 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh, he doesn't want to come back until it's ready
[2014/01/23 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): He was working on some of the viewer UI today
[2014/01/23 15:38] Margithe: haha, oh poor chap
[2014/01/23 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): er, yesterday at least. probably today too.
[2014/01/23 15:40] Jenna Felton: wise guy
[2014/01/23 15:40] Margithe: I wish we had Governance meetings again :/ got so many questions there
[2014/01/23 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): We're definitely in open floor mode now, if any of you have questions
[2014/01/23 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: Maestro, is that Map API cap key never gonna get updated? heh
[2014/01/23 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia, that's hard to say
[2014/01/23 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it seems to be a lost, undocumented art
[2014/01/23 15:42] Jenna Felton: is anyone using the LL viewer on Apple? Apparently since the last enforced viewer update on apple the internal web browser does not display the flash videos and also the media stream for flash players (the TVs and such) is failing.
[2014/01/23 15:43] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah its a known bug
[2014/01/23 15:43] Monty Linden: sigh - webkit
[2014/01/23 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: I just wondered if there was undocumented concern for abuse or something if thats why it hasn't been updated in almost 2 years, heh
[2014/01/23 15:43] Jenna Felton: apple doing a war with the flash player :)
[2014/01/23 15:43] Margithe: isn't it flash update gone wrong though? i've heard some bad things about the latest flash version but it could be just hearsay
[2014/01/23 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Basically it can't be fixed till webkit is updated as far as I understand it. You can downgrade your version of flash as a workaround but then flash may fail in safari
[2014/01/23 15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): personally I consider removing flash from my Mac each time it prompts me to update it..
[2014/01/23 15:44] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But that bug does sound unfortunate..
[2014/01/23 15:44] Whirly Fizzle: Webkit needs to die :D
[2014/01/23 15:45] MartinRJ Fayray: yeah, or at least updated to the latest version
[2014/01/23 15:45] Jenna Felton: you can not downgrade the viewer... when i remember right, it updates itself automatically when outdated so you have to use the newest version
[2014/01/23 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: One of the flash devs from Adobe was on the FS JIRA talking about that bug. he also emailed LL with details. The whole sorry tale is here: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-11057 V3 is affected just the same
[2014/01/23 15:46] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I think you can get around the forcd viewer update by changing channel :D
[2014/01/23 15:46] Nal (nalates.urriah): I'm not all that up to date on WebKit, but Google was moving away from it and Mozilla was left to update it. So, things seem unclear on what will become of it.
[2014/01/23 15:47] Whirly Fizzle: Not sure if a channel change gets around the blocks though, didn't try yet
[2014/01/23 15:47] Jenna Felton: an interesting ugestion Whirly :)
[2014/01/23 15:48] Jenna Felton: suggestion*
[2014/01/23 15:48] Whirly Fizzle: Youtube on MOAP is on borrowed time for windows too.
[2014/01/23 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think changing the channel name should let you avoid the viewer version manager
[2014/01/23 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: Those old versions are actually blocked now though arnt they?
[2014/01/23 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: Its not just the forced update you need to get around.
[2014/01/23 15:49] Whirly Fizzle: All but the last 2 releases are blocked as far as I know
[2014/01/23 15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I don't have an older version handy right now.. I'll have to download an old package to find out
[2014/01/23 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: Ill try after the meeting :D I have a pre materials V3 still installed
[2014/01/23 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: But on any OS, if you view any Youtube content on MOAP, you will see "You're using Safari browser on Windows that we'll soon stop supporting .. " No idea when its actually goping to break though
[2014/01/23 15:53] Whirly Fizzle: Thats going to break a lot of TVs
[2014/01/23 15:54] Monty Linden: Hmm, we could have it advertise as IE8 on windows... :)
[2014/01/23 15:54] Whirly Fizzle: Thats filed at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-4763 (http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-12642 public)
[2014/01/23 15:54] Whirly Fizzle: LOL thats what our devs said :D
[2014/01/23 15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I wonder what 'stop supporting' means
[2014/01/23 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: I don't know
[2014/01/23 15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): whether they'll just stop testing against it for issues or if they'll actively block it
[2014/01/23 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So I just logged into Agni with https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.6.4.280048
[2014/01/23 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: Maestro, do you know if all 3 RC's are getting teh same code next week yet?
[2014/01/23 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you have to launch the viewer with --channel MaestroFanClub though :)
[2014/01/23 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: lol
[2014/01/23 15:56] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia, that's my prediction
[2014/01/23 15:57] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): however, another team may surprise me and have a 2nd project ready for RC
[2014/01/23 15:57] Jenna Felton: hehe Maestro
[2014/01/23 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: if teh change to modify land goes through next week, can you shoot for it to be on Magnum at least, heh
[2014/01/23 15:57] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hehe, sure thing
[2014/01/23 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: thanks
[2014/01/23 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if there were 2 projects, the split would be Magnum for one and BlueSteel+LeTigre for the other
[2014/01/23 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the maintenance one may as well go to Magnum
[2014/01/23 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: I have a sim with 4096 land mod objects in it atm, which can mod the whoel region in 12 secs, would like to see what 64 linksets can do, heh
[2014/01/23 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me is glad we throttle terrain physics regeneration
[2014/01/23 15:59] Lucia Nightfire: indeed
[2014/01/23 15:59] Lucia Nightfire: suprisingly I don't see a hit to anything when that in in progress
[2014/01/23 16:00] Lucia Nightfire: *any times
[2014/01/23 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, it used to be that you could do bad things with similar objects - actually there was a memory leak bug at some point,
[2014/01/23 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but the generation is throttled now such that nothing bad happens, really
[2014/01/23 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): though of course it's it's a big griefing concern, since you need to be a parcel owner to use that function
[2014/01/23 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which most griefers won't be
[2014/01/23 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, we're out of time for this week
[2014/01/23 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Thanks for the HTTP talk, Monty
[2014/01/23 16:02] Jenna Felton: oh
[2014/01/23 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and for the rest of you, thanks for coming!
[2014/01/23 16:02] Monty Linden: yw
[2014/01/23 16:02] MartinRJ Fayray: goodbye all
[2014/01/23 16:02] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Maestro & Monty :)
[2014/01/23 16:02] Lucia Nightfire: laters
[2014/01/23 16:02] Jenna Felton: yes thank you Lindens :)
[2014/01/23 16:02] Margithe: Thanks for you two coming , as well :)
[2014/01/23 16:02] Monty Linden: take care, all
[2014/01/23 16:02] Jenna Felton: have a good weekend everybody