HCI/ Benjamin Linden OH Transcript

[15:08] Gloria Caudron: maybe we'll start now
[15:08] Jacek Antonelli: (No video, just texture)
[15:08] Benjamin Linden: yes let's get started
[15:08] Gloria Caudron: ok sure
[15:08] Gloria Caudron: We are team of 5 graduate students
[15:08] Gloria Caudron: as the slide mentions, we are working with Linden Lab
[15:09] Gloria Caudron: to help enrich the user experience
[15:09] Gloria Caudron: we can go to the next slide
[15:09] Benjamin Linden: now we can wait another five minutes :-)
[15:09] Marilyn Undercroft: this may take a minute :(
[15:09] Gloria Caudron: :)
[15:09] Ara Ember: -0-
[15:09] Tomiko: LOL
[15:10] Marilyn Undercroft: ooo... alittle faster!
[15:10] Ara Ember: it rezzed for me
[15:10] Gloria Caudron: Ok
[15:11] Gloria Caudron: so three main features in our system are these
[15:11] Gloria Caudron: Mainly the Recommendations system, where the system
[15:11] Gloria Caudron: can recommend events, places, and groups for Residents
[15:11] Gloria Caudron: specific to their personal interests
[15:11] Gloria Caudron: The second feature is the Rating system
[15:12] Gloria Caudron: where Residents can rate events and places
[15:12] Gloria Caudron: if they enjoy it or not
[15:12] Gloria Caudron: and also post comments
[15:12] Gloria Caudron: for other Residents to read
[15:12] Gloria Caudron: The Rating system will feed into the Recommendations system
[15:13] Lars Donardson sees major potential for abuse of these points
[15:13] Gloria Caudron: to help contribute to recommendations
[15:13] Jacek Antonelli is jotting some feedback in a notecard for after Gloria's done :)
[15:13] Ara Ember: :D thanks :)
[15:13] Gloria Caudron: yes thanks for jotting feedback
[15:13] Gloria Caudron: we will definietly be interested in hearing it in a moment
[15:13] Gloria Caudron: The third main compenent is the Interests/Tagging feature
[15:14] Gloria Caudron: where each event/place/group will have keywords
[15:14] Gloria Caudron: associated with it
[15:14] Gloria Caudron: also called categories/tags/interests
[15:14] Gloria Caudron: So for example if you like a place called "Karen's Karaoke"
[15:14] Gloria Caudron: certain keywords will be associated with this place
[15:15] Gloria Caudron: like karaoke, singing, music, etc
[15:15] Gloria Caudron: so if you have told the system you like these things
[15:15] Gloria Caudron: it will recommend you event/places/groups
[15:15] Gloria Caudron: with these same keywords
[15:15] Tomiko: And other people? With similar interests? : )
[15:16] Gloria Caudron: These are the main concepts this system
[15:16] Marilyn Undercroft: ben get the next slide ready please :)
[15:16] Ara Ember: hmm.. we were thinking about that.
[15:16] Gloria Caudron: It will not recommend people, mainly events, places, groups
[15:16] Kippie Friedkin: Ben seems to have crashed a couple of minutes ago :\
[15:16] Jacek Antonelli: ruh roh
[15:16] Ara Ember: but people found it much less useful than events places and groups
[15:16] Gloria Caudron: we'll go to the last slide
[15:16] Tomiko: I think that would be a good feature, to be able to search for people in Second 
Life who have similar interests etc. :)
[15:16] Marilyn Undercroft: uh oh!
[15:16] McCabe Maxsted: doh
[15:17] Gloria Caudron: doh!
[15:17] Marilyn Undercroft: the last slide just says the aspects we'd like feedback on
[15:17] You: I think all of the other things Gloria has mentioned are Existing features in the 
Client, and why make new when Linden Lab can and should improve the current features?
[15:17] Marilyn Undercroft: we can get it up when ben gets back
[15:17] You: Key words into Land description etc.
[15:17] Gloria Caudron: There are three main things we would like your feedback on
[15:17] Gloria Caudron: 1 - what you find useful about our system
[15:18] Gloria Caudron: (we will show you a prototype)
[15:18] Ara Ember: hmm... somewhat different from existing features, cuz now it's tailored to you.
[15:18] Gloria Caudron: what aspects you might find confusing
[15:18] Gloria Caudron: and what features you would or would not use
[15:18] Gloria Caudron: Before we go into the prototype, it sounds like there is some feedback 
already
[15:19] Joeseph Albanese: Need a focus/test group
[15:19] Marilyn Undercroft: however they are only accessible to a small group of experienced 
Residents
[15:19] Trinity Coulter: How would you protect it from abuse?
[15:19] Marilyn Undercroft: it's very difficult for new and regular uses to access
[15:19] Ara Ember: yes :) we are going to do the user testing soon.. and we are hoping this session will turn out to be like a focus group :)
[15:19] Lars Donardson: exactly..the rating feature calls for "flame wars"/abuse
[15:19] Gloria Caudron: there are certain things we would have in place for abuse
[15:19] Trinity Coulter: which would be what/
[15:19] Trinity Coulter: ?
[15:20] Gloria Caudron: it might be more clear once we show you
[15:20] Gloria Caudron: the prototype
[15:20] Kippie Friedkin: How are keywords determined for places and events?
[15:20] McCabe Maxsted: is the rating both positive and negative, or just positive?
[15:20] Trinity Coulter: Second Life differs from Social Networking in that it has a strong 
commerce base and therefore a strong incentive to abuse the system
[15:20] Marilyn Undercroft: negative and positive
[15:20] Trinity Coulter: abuse becomes cash
[15:20] Lars Donardson nods at Trinity
[15:20] Aimee Trescothick: as was seen in the old profile ratings
[15:21] Gloria Caudron: We thought alot about this since there are alot of things such as campers
[15:21] Gloria Caudron: so one of the things is that we make the person's profile more public
[15:21] Gloria Caudron: the person who posts the comment
[15:21] Gloria Caudron: so there is more accountability to posting misleading comments
[15:21] Joeseph Albanese: here come the alts indroves
[15:22] Trinity Coulter: accountability means alts
[15:22] Marilyn Undercroft: determining the initial functionality was our first goal, but we are 
continuing to try and assure that it is gamed as little as possible
[15:22] Jacek Antonelli: let's let her explain, okay?
[15:22] Lars Donardson already hears the "fould· "breach of privacy" cries
[15:22] Lars Donardson: *foul
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: sorry folks, SL crashed my computer
[15:22] Trinity Coulter: I think its a good idea, but it is VERY open to abuse
[15:22] Nine Moulliez: Prototype Link: http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:22] McCabe Maxsted: wb ben
[15:22] Gloria Caudron: why don't we show you now
[15:22] Benjamin Linden: who builds this app anyway?
[15:22] Gloria Caudron: Nine just posted the URL
[15:22] Tomiko: Also, Second Life currently has all this; Search for Places, Groups, Events, 
Ratings etc.
[15:22] Tomiko: So why make a new system?
[15:22] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[15:22] Nine Moulliez: Prototype Link: http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:22] Aimee Trescothick: it wasn't built Ben, it evolved lol
[15:22] You: People can already search what they want, and their matches come up
[15:23] Marilyn Undercroft: our user studies showed that search failed many users
[15:23] Benjamin Linden: can someone send me a chat transcript from the past 10 minutes?
[15:23] Marilyn Undercroft: it also doesn't expose new users to the possibilities in SL
[15:23] Grant Linden: yes ben
[15:23] Trinity Coulter: Linden Lab once had a thing called "dwell"... it was abused
[15:23] Benjamin Linden: thanks Grant
[15:23] Trinity Coulter: Linden Lab once had a thing called "ratings", they were abused
[15:23] Marilyn Undercroft: they have to come up with what to search for themselves
[15:23] Trinity Coulter: Linden Lab right now has a thing called traffic and it IS abused
[15:24] Jacek Antonelli: Guys -- let them finish describing the system before you start bashing 
on it with a hammer?
[15:24] Trinity Coulter: so anything new should be airtight as much as possible upfront
[15:24] Marilyn Undercroft: yes we know about traffic, it's one of the reasons we took this 
direction
[15:24] Lars Donardson: pfttt...*kicks server*
[15:24] Benjamin Linden: thanks Lars
[15:24] Gloria Caudron: We feel this is different from the Search in that it gives you tailored
[15:25] Gloria Caudron: recommendations to you based on ratings and your interests
[15:25] Marilyn Undercroft: are people able to see the prototype?
[15:25] Dakota Schwade: YEs.
[15:25] Jingidy Dumpling: please keep in mind the prototype is a work in progress
[15:25] Gloria Caudron: you have to maximize the browser window
[15:25] Marilyn Undercroft: if you missed it:
[15:25] Marilyn Undercroft: http://www.sjstevewon.com/sl/SL_hifi_iter1.html
[15:25] Garn Conover: this sounds like that LM sharer that was talked abotu a while back
[15:25] Jingidy Dumpling: some features are not implemented yet
[15:26] Jingidy Dumpling: for example, the "why is this recommended" and "options" links take you 
to something and gets stuck there
[15:26] Jingidy Dumpling: you will have to refresh to be able to go back
[15:28] Lars Donardson: how is this "you know 999 people here" determined?
[15:28] Marilyn Undercroft: it was for correct design spacing
[15:28] Marilyn Undercroft: it should have updated
[15:29] Jacek Antonelli: Could you explain the "Wander" button for us?
[15:29] Gloria Caudron: the Wander button will take you to a "random" place
[15:30] Garn Conover: if this can somehow eliminate abuse i dont see why it cant be joined w/ the 
exisiting system
[15:30] Marilyn Undercroft: please explain
[15:30] Marilyn Undercroft: do you mean in Search, or...
[15:30] Ara Ember: the wander button is like i feel l ucky button
[15:30] Ara Ember: it sends you to random place that matches your interest
[15:30] Gloria Caudron: also by "random" I mean it would be based on your interests to some degree
[15:31] Jacek Antonelli: Sounds good
[15:31] Marilyn Undercroft: it's like going to a recommended place, witht the same algorythm 
behind it
[15:31] Jacek Antonelli thinks the "I'm bored" button ^_^
[15:31] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[15:31] Kippie Friedkin: heh..yep!
[15:31] Ara Ember agrees
[15:31] McCabe Maxsted was thinking the same
[15:31] Aimee Trescothick: bit like StumbleUpon
[15:31] Jacek Antonelli: yeah :)
[15:32] Kippie Friedkin: yep
[15:32] Garn Conover: did we loose Ben again?
[15:32] Marilyn Undercroft: inspiration identified!
[15:32] Kippie Friedkin: we sure did
[15:32] Malbers Linden: Bn has left the building
[15:32] Aimee Trescothick: :D
[15:32] Marilyn Undercroft: yup, ben seems to be having some problems
[15:32] Garn Conover: too many av's! lol
[15:32] McCabe Maxsted: hamsters got lose
[15:32] McCabe Maxsted: someone has to chase 'em down
[15:32] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[15:32] Gloria Caudron: :)
[15:33] Dakota Schwade: So in some ways this is related to Jeska Linden's "LL Traffic Future" 
activities, yes?
[15:33] Jacek Antonelli: This circle "refresh"-looking arrow comes up with a random listing 
(weighted for your preferences) for you to look at? And then you have the back and forward history 
buttons?
[15:33] Aimee Trescothick volunteers for hamster chasing duties
[15:33] Lars Donardson: is the "X people you know like this" and "you know XXX people here" 
linked toy your friendslist ?
[15:33] Gloria Caudron: yes linked to your friends list
[15:34] Jingidy Dumpling: yes
[15:34] Marilyn Undercroft: we have recently reworked that butoon (refresh)... it's outta there!
[15:34] Marilyn Undercroft: needs spell check ;)
[15:34] Dakota Schwade: And initially, everything in SL will be un-rated, with ratings building 
over time?
[15:34] Gloria Caudron: not sure about "LL Traffic Future" activities
[15:35] Marilyn Undercroft: yes though we hope to devise a way to increase the speed at which 
things will be rated
[15:35] Lars Donardson: now..that for example is not a feature I'd like all the time to be 
honest..did you consider building a "hide" function into it?
[15:35] Dakota Schwade: Traffic = Popularity in many eyes.
[15:35] Marilyn Undercroft: do you mean the bar or the big window?
[15:35] Marilyn Undercroft: to hide
[15:35] Lars Donardson: I don't need to tp into a region and be automatically seen to all my 
friends on the list
[15:35] Gloria Caudron: yes good point
[15:36] Gloria Caudron: you could opt out of it
[15:36] Gloria Caudron: it's only if you were open to ppl contacting you at that time
[15:36] Marilyn Undercroft: like 'find on map'
[15:36] Jacek Antonelli: Cool
[15:36] Jacek Antonelli: wb Ben
[15:36] Benjamin Linden: thanks
[15:37] Benjamin Linden: clearly RC13 not so lucky for me
[15:37] Lars Donardson hands Benjamin some superglue to glue his bum to the grid
[15:37] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[15:37] Kippie Friedkin: lol
[15:37] Benjamin Linden: heh thanks Lars
[15:37] Marilyn Undercroft: tee hee
[15:37] McCabe Maxsted: so will this be strictly an inworld tool?
[15:37] Ara Ember: lmao
[15:37] Marilyn Undercroft: there's been some discussion on that point but we haven't developed 
anything for the web yet
[15:38] Kippie Friedkin is taking lots of notes :)
[15:38] McCabe Maxsted: okay, because there's a lot of text here; I don't know how patient I'd be 
sitting and reading through it with the 3D world to look at
[15:38] Marilyn Undercroft: great thanks!
[15:38] Trinity Coulter: rather than a dedicated new addition to the Viewer, why not develop a 
web-based HUD framework for the Viewer and people can build their own solutions into this same 
sort of structure?
[15:38] Marilyn Undercroft: that's very isolating to new users
[15:39] Marilyn Undercroft: though a good idea :)
[15:39] Jingidy Dumpling: or do you mean providing a way to easily customize it?
[15:39] Dakota Schwade: Yes, HUD to me was a movie title for a long time.
[15:39] Jingidy Dumpling: and still have a default
[15:39] McCabe Maxsted assumes it'll be skinnable ;)
[15:39] Jacek Antonelli: hehehe
[15:39] Trinity Coulter: I agree with McCabe about the text overload there
[15:39] Trinity Coulter: might need to be streamlined some
[15:40] Marilyn Undercroft: we are developing a thumbnail preview/list before all these details, 
would that help with all the text?
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: thumbnail/preview list would be good
[15:40] Trinity Coulter: your typical SL'er will have chat on the bottom, chat in an IM window, 
and then this added in as well
[15:40] Trinity Coulter: not much screen space left for a 3D world
[15:40] Jacek Antonelli: Especially with pictures :D
[15:40] Marilyn Undercroft: we did leave the bottom left as clear as possible on purpose
[15:41] Jingidy Dumpling: and we're trying to leave the middle open too
[15:41] Marilyn Undercroft: and you are looking to go to a new place so.....
[15:41] Marilyn Undercroft: but i hear ya
[15:41] Marilyn Undercroft: in any event, it's still smaller than search
[15:41] Trinity Coulter: this could just be part of the place name at the top
[15:42] Dakota Schwade: If it is built in to the viewer, images could be a Preference setting.
[15:42] Gloria Caudron: It's possible but sometimes we are recommendting groups and events
[15:42] Jingidy Dumpling: or maybe whether or not to show that much text could be a preference too
[15:42] Trinity Coulter: Gloria, could you explain what you mean by recommending a group?
[15:42] Gloria Caudron: yes this would be based on your interests
[15:43] Gloria Caudron: So if you have rated thing "thumbs up" which have certain keywords
[15:43] McCabe Maxsted: how do you gather our interests?
[15:43] Jacek Antonelli likes having a recommendation, instead of having to think of a specific 
thing that I want to do
[15:43] Gloria Caudron: associated with them, similar groups would be recommended to you
[15:43] Trinity Coulter: where are the ratings stored?
[15:43] Marilyn Undercroft: McCabe- we have several methods.... one is to have you input them 
directly via your profile
[15:43] Gloria Caudron: for example it might recommend a karaoke group if you like Karen's 
Karaoke place
[15:43] Marilyn Undercroft: another is to gather them from your ratings
[15:43] Nine Moulliez: can you clarify trinity?
[15:44] Marilyn Undercroft: and then another is from the option 'show more like this'
[15:44] Nine Moulliez: Ratings would be stored in the database and used in the future for things 
like recommendations
[15:44] Trinity Coulter: well we have data for ratings.... is this stored locally on the user's 
computer, or is it in the SL database?
[15:44] Marilyn Undercroft: in addition, you can browse other people's profiles and add them from 
there
[15:44] Nine Moulliez: Not locally.
[15:45] Ara Ember: the ratings are like a property of the land/event/group
[15:45] Ara Ember: it's within the information of these
[15:45] McCabe Maxsted: hm, okay. I think a lot of people will be worried this will be one of 
those "track everything you buy" kind of systems
[15:45] Trinity Coulter: yes
[15:45] Trinity Coulter: giant marketing database
[15:45] Marilyn Undercroft: every interest defaults to private and there is no rating of objects
[15:46] Jingidy Dumpling: or people
[15:46] Ara Ember: oh yeah please join the group if you are interested in helping us further
[15:46] Ara Ember: that's what tomiko is sending right now
[15:46] Joeseph Albanese: Yeah but essentially you are saying so and so shops here a lot?
[15:46] Tomiko: Please join 'HCI - Project Participants' : )
[15:46] Gloria Caudron: also, we would want to make it clear to users at which points
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted: what was that? benjamin's offering us a 16th group place just for this?
[15:46] Gloria Caudron: we are gathring informaton from them
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted: that's so nice of linden labs
[15:46] Marilyn Undercroft: hahahha
[15:46] McCabe Maxsted: *26th, rather
[15:46] Jacek Antonelli: lol
[15:46] Trinity Coulter gives McCabe 16 group slots
[15:46] Jingidy Dumpling: haha
[15:47] Kippie Friedkin: lol
[15:47] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[15:47] Lars Donardson waves the "we need more groups" flag
[15:47] Kippie Friedkin is going to have to pick a group to leave to join this one
[15:47] Gloria Caudron: lol :)
[15:47] Dakota Schwade: After a while of gathering "likes" another button could be used to 
recommend places wildly outside of your interests, as a diversion, perhaps.
[15:47] Ara Ember: oops..
[15:47] Marilyn Undercroft: hmmm... intersting!
[15:47] Gloria Caudron: yes interesting :)
[15:47] Ara Ember: ya :)
[15:48] Dakota Schwade: I'm not just another pretty avatar.
[15:48] Ara Ember: lol
[15:48] Jacek Antonelli: What's the group called? I can't find any HCI - Project Participants...
[15:48] Gloria Caudron: lol
[15:48] McCabe Maxsted wishes they hadn't turnkated the group search functionality
[15:48] Trinity Coulter: if you are going to build something like this idea into the Viewer, you 
might get more participation from the community by simply creating a set of standards for 
web-based HUDs or widgets and adding that to the Viewer instead of this... people can develop this 
system independently
[15:48] Jacek Antonelli hates this useless new group search
[15:48] McCabe Maxsted: used to be so easy to find groups
[15:48] McCabe Maxsted: now, god
[15:49] McCabe Maxsted: they don't even show you how many members half the time
[15:49] Lars Donardson: Homeless...nope...humanistic...hmmmmm
[15:49] Kippie Friedkin: You can click on my profile to find that group. I found it :)
[15:49] Jingidy Dumpling: we could consider that as a next step, a web-based HUD
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli grumble grumble grumble.... "loco poco" didn't turn up the "loco pocos" 
group this weekend.. grumble grumble
[15:49] McCabe Maxsted: HCI founders?
[15:49] Jingidy Dumpling: could be useful
[15:49] Aimee Trescothick: Human Computer Interaction? What about Cat Computer Interaction
[15:49] Jacek Antonelli: thank you Ara
[15:49] Ara Ember: yw
[15:50] Marilyn Undercroft: i know they've done dog computer interaction
[15:50] Ara Ember: hot cats interaction
[15:50] Aimee Trescothick: :D
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted: aha thanks kippie
[15:50] Jacek Antonelli: "Cat Like Typing Detected!"
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
[15:50] Kippie Friedkin: :)
[15:50] Jacek Antonelli: cat-computer interaction = sitting on my keyboard
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted: I considered getting that for my cat
[15:50] McCabe Maxsted: he loves to hop up and type secret messages
[15:50] Jei Desoto: i think as it might have been already said that a system like this integrated 
in the viewer would allow new players to find it sonner then HUDs.
[15:51] Jei Desoto: sooner even.
[15:51] Kippie Friedkin: agreed
[15:51] Trinity Coulter: this is a HUD
[15:51] Aimee Trescothick: it's just a built in one
[15:51] Trinity Coulter: i'm suggesting a new type of HUD/widget
[15:51] Jingidy Dumpling: like a LL hud that you have by default?
[15:51] Trinity Coulter: that is open to user-driven creations
[15:51] Trinity Coulter: yes
[15:52] Jei Desoto: And i'm giving a reason as to being part of the native UI whould make it 
easier to new people.
[15:52] Trinity Coulter: and could accept web based interfaces, etc
[15:52] Ara Ember is Online
[15:52] Trinity Coulter: right, but this is a HUD nontheless... built in or not
[15:52] Trinity Coulter: certain things will have to be added to the viewer for this to function
[15:53] Jei Desoto: Then your previous statement answers itself.
[15:53] Jacek Antonelli: Aye, it's a HUD -- rather than a HUD Attachment
[15:53] Trinity Coulter: why not just establish a standard for such new things
[15:53] Marilyn Undercroft: what types of things trinity?
[15:53] Trinity Coulter: and extend content creation to the Viewer itself
[15:53] Trinity Coulter: HUD 2.0
[15:53] Ara Ember: 0.0
[15:53] Jingidy Dumpling: Like the toolbar would be a HUD instead
[15:53] Jingidy Dumpling: ?
[15:53] Aimee Trescothick: Viewer plugins have been talked about a lot in the past
[15:53] Lars Donardson points to the open viewer /Dev meetings
[15:54] Jacek Antonelli thinks that's probably a teensy bit beyond the scope of their project...
[15:54] Trinity Coulter: you're already halfway there with this project
[15:54] Jei Desoto: Sounds like a major jump in viewer code though... Might be better to wor 
toward something like that in steps.
[15:54] Jingidy Dumpling: Yeah, we don't really have the resources to accomplish that, for the 
project
[15:55] Dakota Schwade: When are you contemplating testing this ratings system?
[15:55] Trinity Coulter: i'm actually just suggesting a simplification :)
[15:55] Marilyn Undercroft: asap
[15:55] Lars Donardson: RL asap or SL asap
[15:55] Ara Ember: we are going to test the design no tthe system itself
[15:55] Lars Donardson snickers
[15:55] McCabe Maxsted: distribute a hud inworld for us to try out?
[15:55] Jei Desoto: Even in simplicity some things take to much code differance if it's function 
is very differant then current function. So this emediate plan seems like a good step in the right 
direction for now.
[15:56] Gloria Caudron: unforutnately we don't have the resources to do that
[15:56] Ara Ember: when Lindens actually make these... ;)
[15:56] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[15:56] Ara Ember: so.. we are the designers, not coders
[15:56] Aimee Trescothick: problem is the viewer needs a major overhaul to make that possible, 
but everytime a new feature gets added it makes that task a little more complicated
[15:56] Trinity Coulter: yes, exactly my point, Aimee
[15:57] Lars Donardson already braces himself for the whining orgy on the blog when this feature 
will be announced
[15:57] Marilyn Undercroft: indeed, we considered reworking this into search but it's, again, 
outside of our scope
[15:57] Tomiko: I'm sure it would go through beta stages and bug testing before it got made the 
main viewer
[15:57] McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:57] Trinity Coulter: well, it needs to be rock solid against abuse
[15:57] Tomiko: Yes, and it'd all be part of testing and improving
[15:57] Marilyn Undercroft: yes, that's our main focus now (abuse)
[15:58] Dakota Schwade: Is this system, for lack of my understanding, "bot" proof then?
[15:58] Lars Donardson nods..the abuse potential is enormous
[15:58] Jingidy Dumpling: depends on how it is implemented? =)
[15:58] Jacek Antonelli: I think this system would be a useful addition to the viewer. Benefit 
well beyond the cost of the added code.
[15:58] Jei Desoto: Nothing is rock solid. There are always ways around any abuse free system. So 
whatever is planned to help keep the abuse down will be enough to suffice... This -is- still in 
the works.
[15:58] Ara Ember: yes. we are spending a lot of time thinking about abuse.
[15:59] Grant Linden: We are drawing close to the end of the hour. I want to let everyone know 
that next week (July 17) Jacek Antonelli will present their design for the viewer contest
[15:59] Aimee Trescothick: The was some useful discussion on sl-dev about ways of preventing 
gaming in the past
[15:59] Ara Ember: just tho' if we could find abuse proof way of doing the reputation system.. we 
definitely will earn a lot of money from amazon ;)
[15:59] Jei Desoto: Yeah... Abuse is big thing and all, but i don't wanna see fear of it ruining 
a potentially good system to find your way around the maze we have now.
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: the potential for abuse is limited by how much effect this will have on 
SL™ lives, too; you won't be able to ruin someone's business with it, or shouldn't be able to
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: whee :D
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted: oooh
[15:59] Trinity Coulter: you could limit rating strength on "no payment info" people
[15:59] Lars Donardson: I may sound crazy but I can picture estate/club owners actually paying 
ppl to cast negative votes for competitors
[15:59] McCabe Maxsted expects dressing up and laser pointers
[15:59] Squirrel Wood: that is definitely going to happen
[15:59] Kippie Friedkin: lol
[15:59] Jacek Antonelli: Not crazy at all, Lars
[16:00] Gloria Caudron: yes were were thinking of Lars' point
[16:00] Trinity Coulter: Jei, abuse has to be a serious concern because it is about money here
[16:00] Lars Donardson: well..I didn't want to sound too discouraging..lol
[16:00] Ara Ember: heh
[16:00] Squirrel Wood: create alt, vote negative, dispose of alt....
[16:00] Trinity Coulter: i think these ideas are wonderful
[16:00] Trinity Coulter: i love their suggestions
[16:00] Trinity Coulter: but it WILL get abused
[16:00] Ara Ember: yes.
[16:00] Marilyn Undercroft: we are considering some way to dissassociate the rating from the av 
so you couldn't tell if the person you paid actually did what you asked
[16:00] Lars Donardson: and stop this "no payment info talking pls"..not my fault that I can't 
get one on file grmmph..unless LL changes their policy that is
[16:00] Jingidy Dumpling: yup, these are great ideas to try to minimize the abuse
[16:00] Tomiko: There could always be banned words for cxomments etc.
[16:01] Jei Desoto: Serious yes, and that's my point... as it was stated, they are working on 
things to keep it to minimum. There fore it shouldn't be a fear to stop something like this being 
implimneted if they have ways to minimise that risk.
[16:01] Grant Linden: Thanks to everyone for coming, one more time I want to let everyone know 
that next week (July 17) Jacek Antonelli will present their design for the viewer contest
[16:01] Gloria Caudron: yes and hopefully since your profile is more public
[16:01] Gloria Caudron: there would be more accountability for your posts
[16:01] Gloria Caudron: yes thank you
[16:01] Nine Moulliez: thank you everyone for all the feedback. they were ery helpful!
[16:01] Jingidy Dumpling: thank you so much for all the suggestions and feedback
[16:01] Marilyn Undercroft: thank you all so much for your great feedback!
[16:01] Ara Ember: lmao
[16:01] Jingidy Dumpling: =D
[16:01] Jei Desoto: See ya' : 3
[16:01] McCabe Maxsted looks forward to hearing more about this
[16:01] Nine Moulliez: ^ ^
[16:01] Tomiko: Wow ery helpful!
[16:01] Jacek Antonelli: Thanks for presenting, guys! Best luck with the project :)
[16:01] Kippie Friedkin: Thank you for the great presentation.
[16:02] Tomiko: That's even better than very! : D
[16:02] Ara Ember: thank you everyone and err.. feedbacks..
[16:02] Ara Ember echos
[16:02] Jacek Antonelli: hehe
[16:02] Nine Moulliez: =]
[16:02] Squirrel Wood: POKE!!!!
[16:02] Marilyn Undercroft: :D
[16:02] Gloria Caudron: thanks!
[16:02] Tomiko: Sorry Ara to be sat on you
[16:02] Ara Ember: no prob
[16:02] Ara Ember: seriously.. they should let default action to make us be able to pet furry 
avatars
[16:03] Jacek Antonelli: hee
[16:03] McCabe Maxsted: haha
[16:03] Squirrel Wood: ^^
[16:03] McCabe Maxsted could get behind that
[16:03] Aimee Trescothick purrs
[16:03] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming everyone
[16:03] Benjamin Linden: great crowd today!
[16:03] Ara Ember: :D
[16:03] McCabe Maxsted: must be cause all the UI stuff lately :D
[16:04] Jacek Antonelli: yeah, I think everyone wanted to come say thanks for the skin switching 
xD
[16:04] Aimee Trescothick: yup, lots of UI stuffing
[16:04] Aimee Trescothick: and that too :D
[16:04] Malbers Linden: thanks all. see you next week.
[16:04] Benjamin Linden: you're quite welcome!
[16:04] McCabe Maxsted cheers for that
[16:04] Benjamin Linden: :-)
[16:04] Jacek Antonelli: take care Malbers
[16:04] McCabe Maxsted: :)
[16:04] Squirrel Wood: Have a grrrrrrrrrrrrrreat weekend!
[16:04] McCabe Maxsted: take care malbers
[16:04] Ara Ember: thank you all! and thank you tomiko for the group :)
[16:04] Kippie Friedkin: cya Malbers!
[16:04] Tomiko: It's OKI Ara!
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: McCabe, if you have time it would be great to get the skinning wiki 
pages update to reflect recent changes
[16:05] Lars Donardson: let's all say a prayer to the asset gods before we leave *grins*
[16:05] Tomiko: : D
[16:05] McCabe Maxsted: will do ;)
[16:05] Jacek Antonelli: lol
[16:05] Garn Conover: that still works
[16:05] Garn Conover: test #3
[16:05] Jingidy Dumpling: bye everyone =)
[16:05] Joeseph Albanese: rofl I donated a few thousand items to them last week they should be 
good
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: thanks again for the classic skin. you're in the list of resident 
contributors in "About Second Life"
[16:05] Benjamin Linden: or will be in the production viewer
[16:06] McCabe Maxsted: XD hehe
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: ok everyone, I have to run. see you next week!
[16:06] Jacek Antonelli: There he is! :D
[16:06] Jacek Antonelli: ciao Ben!
[16:06] Kippie Friedkin: Awesome. Congrats. McCabe!
[16:06] Kippie Friedkin: Cya Ben
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: thanks Ara and CMU team
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: for presenting today
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: great job
[16:06] Squirrel Wood: Eeeep!
[16:06] Benjamin Linden: let's talk about feedback tomorrow