Mesh/Archive/2011-09-19

==Agenda==
# It has already been explained that scripts add to the PE count. The question remains: how much _exactly_ do they add? What's the underlying calculation? [Domsson Lean, PMan Parabola]
# Joining submeshes prior to upload results in a higher PE than uploading them as a linkset. This seems to be due to the more differentiated LOD calculation; still it is confusing since you would assume that one joined mesh would result in less PE than several meshes, linked together (= more server load). Is there some documentation (or any additional information) available on this topic? [Domsson Lean]
# When uploading a mesh made of several submeshes, it seems their dimensions have to match exactly across all LOD models - otherwise they are sized to match the highest LOD model, will can result in unwanted distortion. Is there a way to avoid that resizing, other than to join the meshes before uploading? [Domsson Lean]
# There is a "Texture" option in the upload dialog, but it never seems to upload or apply textures automatically. I'm forced to upload manually and apply textures. The COLLADA file shows the texture names applied in the file itself, though it would appear to be using a relative path rather than an absolute one. Is this a placeholder option for now, is the uploader just not liking relative file names and paths, or is there some other trick to getting textures to upload and apply? [Feynt Mistral]
# In a recent JIRA I posted (SH-2433) regarding the COLLADA format change in the newest versions of Blender from graphicall.org, I also mentioned that animations don't update in real time in the preview window and that clicking the joint positions option doesn't update the preview window to use those positions, forcing us to upload a mesh to get a true view of how it looks. The final activity (according to the jira bot email updates) for that entry occurs after I mention this issue. Does this mean they will work again in a newer client? [Feynt Mistral]
# When can we expect a new stable version of viewer 2 to be released? [Feynt Mistral]
# I can't set Medium and Low LOD Collada file which have single face. When I set Medium LOD Collada file, "Culculate weights & fee" button was turned to unenabled. I can uplead it on Viewer 3.0.0, but I can't upload them on Viewer 3.0.5. I can upload Collada file which have multiple faces on Viewer 3.0.5. [Yuzuru Jewell]
# Why can't we log straight into Mesh HQ 2? [Drongle McMahon]
# How long will there continue to be be a separate Mesh Project viewer? [Drongle]
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*eithne Blaylock (eithne.blaylock)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Graham Dartmouth (graham.dartmouth)
*Imaze Rhiano (imaze.rhiano)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nooto (nooto)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Rain Edring (rain.edring)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Skygirl Kline (skygirl.kline)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday September 19, 2011==
[12:02]	Graham Dartmouth 	cool avi prep ㋡
[12:03]	Prep Linden 	hehe - tis nice.
[12:03]	Eleanora Newell 	hey, charlar
[12:03]	Charlar Linden 	hi eleanora!
[12:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha waves to Charlar.
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	hi Asha
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	ok, let's get started, shall we?
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	First item
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	#1 It has already been explained that scripts add to the PE count. The question remains: how much _exactly_ do they add? What's the underlying calculation? [Domsson Lean, PMan Parabola]
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	the change in the calculation is for the "server" calculation, so you'll only see an effect if that's the highest weight for your object
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	the change is not a change per script, but whether the object is 'dynamic', so if the server thinks its going to change
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	which happens if you add a script to an object or make it physical
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	so we're not analyzing the scripts for what they do to the object, but they use a very rough metric to determine if the object is likely to cause updates that the server has to process
[12:06]	Drongle McMahon 	Here is the kb link explaining it all...
[12:06]	Graham Dartmouth 	but every script is 'dynamic' since it changes something?
[12:06]	Drongle McMahon 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Calculating-prim-equivalent-weight/ta-p/974163
[12:07]	Nyx Linden 	adding any script will make the object get flagged as dynamic
[12:07]	Nyx Linden 	does that make sense?
[12:08]	Graham Dartmouth 	yes, but a hover text script does not use same resources as a vehicle script
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	correct, we are not measuring a "script weight" currently
[12:08]	eithne Blaylock 	and i have noticed what when i put a script into a simple 1 pe mesh it doesn't have the same effect all the time as putting it into one that has say a 7 pe count
[12:08]	Graham Dartmouth 	is this possibly for the future?
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	just whether the server will need to send object updates for events other than user-triggered events (which happens for scripted or physical objects)
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	you'll only see an impact on your land impact if the server weight is the limiting factor.
[12:11]	Charlar Linden 	ok, moving on
[12:11]	Charlar Linden 	#2 Joining submeshes prior to upload results in a higher PE than uploading them as a linkset. This seems to be due to the more differentiated LOD calculation; still it is confusing since you would assume that one joined mesh would result in less PE than several meshes, linked together (= more server load). Is there some documentation (or any additional information) available on this topic? [Domsson Lean]
[12:11]	davep (runitai.linden)	You're probably getting a higher streaming cost when combined because combining them effectively makes every part as large as the whole linked set for LoD calculations, which means the number of visible triangles will be larger over a larger area. See the mesh streaming cost wiki page for more details:
[12:12]	Nyx Linden 	if they're a linkset we can LOD each piece individually.
[12:13]	Charlar Linden 	Unfortunately I don't see Domsson... so we're moving on...
[12:13]	Charlar Linden 	#3 When uploading a mesh made of several submeshes, it seems their dimensions have to match exactly across all LOD models - otherwise they are sized to match the highest LOD model, will can result in unwanted distortion. Is there a way to avoid that resizing, other than to join the meshes before uploading? [Domsson Lean]
[12:13]	Eleanora Newell 	how do you upload a linkset as opposed to an object that is joined as one mesh in your 3d program?
[12:13]	Prep Linden 	Yeah, currently the bounding boxes have to be the same for all LODs, otherwise as you said there will be distortion. We have a JIRA for this issue in our backlog.
[12:13]	davep (runitai.linden)	Eleanora: make it separate nodes in the editor
[12:13]	Eleanora Newell 	ah, k, ty
[12:14]	Charlar Linden 	Preps answer also applies to collision as well. We have an item in our backlog to allow for differently shaped collision from the loD.
[12:15]	Charlar Linden 	Everyone is rather quiet...
[12:15]	Charlar Linden 	you all are making me nervous
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	I guess that is all related to offset origins too?
[12:15]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:15]	Skygirl Kline 	^^
[12:15]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I'm trying to figure out why LoD needs to change collision...
[12:16]	Graham Dartmouth 	I was browsing dave's library
[12:16]	Charlar Linden 	it doesn't Nal. There was a request to have collision shape which didn't have hte same bounding box as teh visible one
[12:16]	Charlar Linden 	it's in our backlog
[12:16]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	K that makes sense
[12:16]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	I am reading...
[12:16]	Charlar Linden 	sorry to confuse - cool
[12:17]	Charlar Linden 	next item:
[12:17]	Charlar Linden 	#4 There is a "Texture" option in the upload dialog, but it never seems to upload or apply textures automatically. I'm forced to upload manually and apply textures. The COLLADA file shows the texture names applied in the file itself, though it would appear to be using a relative path rather than an absolute one. Is this a placeholder option for now, is the uploader just not liking relative file names and paths, or is there some other trick to getting textures to upload and apply? [Feynt Mistral]
[12:17]	davep (runitai.linden)	Just tested with the books to my right here and it works -- if the textures show up when the preview render when you enable "textures" from the preview drop down, then the importer successfully located and loaded the textures. In order to upload them with the imported mesh, you need to check "Textures" in the "Modifiers" tab.
[12:18]	Drongle McMahon 	Naughty physics weight on those books!
[12:18]	Charlar Linden 	that's what happens when you just buy something off the internets.
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	not optimized for SL
[12:19]	eithne Blaylock 	i'm just glad they arn't the manuels for all this
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next item...
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	#5 In a recent JIRA I posted (SH-2433) regarding the COLLADA format change in the newest versions of Blender from graphicall.org, I also mentioned that animations don't update in real time in the preview window and that clicking the joint positions option doesn't update the preview window to use those positions, forcing us to upload a mesh to get a true view of how it looks. The final activity (according to the jira bot email updates) for that entry occurs after I mention this issue. Does this mean they will work again in a newer client? [Feynt Mistral]
[12:19]	Prep Linden 	Early on in the mesh project the preview window did mimic the motion of your current in world avatar - there however were issues with this approach when support for joint offsets was added. The preview window now only plays the avatar "stand" animation.
[12:20]	Prep Linden 	I believe there is a task for adding a drop down box to the upload window that would allow for the selection and application of a several animations (e.g. stand, walk, and crouch) - I agreewith you that the "stand" animations motion is subtle.
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	ok, so moving on...
[12:21]	Charlar Linden 	#6 When can we expect a new stable version of viewer 2 to be released? [Feynt Mistral]
[12:22]	Nyx Linden 	well we're on viewer version 3.0.5 recently, but aside from that we're working on some stability issues before our next release
[12:22]	Nyx Linden 	so depending on your definition of 'stable' .... we have a few bugs to clean up before we make another official release
[12:23]	Nyx Linden 	hopefully soon, but a few bugs to work out first :)
[12:23]	Charlar Linden 	ok, well, moving on...
[12:24]	Charlar Linden 	#7 I can't set Medium and Low LOD Collada file which have single face. When I set Medium LOD Collada file, "Culculate weights & fee" button was turned to unenabled. I can uplead it on Viewer 3.0.0, but I can't upload them on Viewer 3.0.5. I can upload Collada file which have multiple faces on Viewer 3.0.5. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:24]	Prep Linden 	Maybe a bug (not sure unless I see the asset) - file a Jira for one us to investigate.
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	make sure that all of your LODs have the same number of texture faces
[12:24]	Prep Linden 	thanks nyx
[12:24]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	I post it by private..
[12:24]	Prep Linden 	ok
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	yep, that's fine
[12:25]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	It have same face.
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden)	you should be able to now
[12:25]	Second Life 	You have added "(unknown) (221, 3, 23)" to your Landmarks folder.
[12:25]	Nyx Linden 	ok then file a bug and send us the asset, and we'll take a look :)
[12:25]	Prep Linden 	rats. sounds like a bug. file the jira and email the asset to prep@lindenlab.com
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden)	ignore the last comment from me
[12:26]	Charlar Linden 	ok, so this is the last item we have...
[12:26]	Charlar Linden 	#8 Why can't we log straight into Mesh HQ 2? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:26]	Eleanora Newell 	heh
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	THAT you should be able to now
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	I put a #9 too
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	it was set to landing point routing for some reason
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	now it's set to anywhere
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[12:26]	Charlar Linden 	drongle - got it
[12:27]	Charlar Linden 	and NOW the last agenda item we have...
[12:27]	Charlar Linden 	#9 How long will there continue to be be a separate Mesh Project viewer? [Drongle]
[12:28]	Charlar Linden 	While we wrap up our mesh release work. It'll go away soon, and we'll be part of the beta viewer
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon 	Does that mean Cts WILL DISAPPEAR?
[12:28]	Charlar Linden 	ok folks. that's all we got...
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	...CTS will dispaaear?
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon 	...CTS will disappear?
[12:29]	Charlar Linden 	don't panic
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	no cts won't disappear but we'll block future entries from being filed
[12:29]	Charlar Linden 	CTS will no longer be where you put in new bugs
[12:29]	Eleanora Newell 	oh oh, drongle's needle is stuck
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	there's a 'mesh' flag that VWR issues can be tagged with
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon 	ok. Hopec we can search on that too?
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	There should be a note up on CTS saying something to this effect.
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	and that will be the new way to file mesh issues
[12:30]	davep (runitai.linden)	any cool locales that show off mesh builds?
[12:30]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Once the project is over will this group go away?
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	No, the usergroup will remain
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	we may shift to more general content creation topics
[12:31]	Charlar Linden 	We will likely change it slightly, to cover a wider range of topics
[12:31]	Charlar Linden 	possibly different ones on alternate weeks
[12:31]	Eleanora Newell 	cool, thanks, lindens
[12:31]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	That works. Do you know if the viewer group is ever coming back?
[12:31]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The rigged deformer JIRA has a Sprint number on it now. Does that mean that you will start to work on that issue or just discuss it?
[12:32]	Charlar Linden 	Asha, it means we'll be talking and exploring options.
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha isn't really up on the meaning of Sprints.
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	it means we've assigned it a sprint to start looking at it, no guarantees either way
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Ok, thank you.
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha will keep her fingers crossed. ^^
[12:33]	Eleanora Newell 	Eleanora Newell notates new word sprint
[12:33]	Eleanora Newell 	there are many fingers crossed on that one
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha chuckles
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Indeed
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon 	Meeting too exciting for Nooto?
[12:35]	Charlar Linden 	hah
[12:35]	Nooto 	lol yeah
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	apparently silence makes Nooto crazy
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	nooto is always excited
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	thanks again, everyone
[12:36]	Prep Linden 	gonna jet, later folks!
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	Ok, since we seem to be done - I'd like to give everyone 25 minutes back.
[12:36]	Skygirl Kline 	byes
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	later, prep
[12:36]	eithne Blaylock 	tc Prep
[12:36]	Charlar Linden 	thanks everyone, see you next week!
[12:36]	davep (runitai.linden)	thanks folks
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	yay, charlar
[12:37]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	bye
[12:37]	Eleanora Newell 	laterz
[12:37]	Graham Dartmouth 	ty linden peeps
[12:37]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	Thank you.
[12:37]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks for the meeting.
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	thanks all, until next time!
[12:37]	Rain Edring 	bye
[12:37]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	See you next week!
[12:37]	Eleanora Newell 	bye, everyone
[12:37]	Rain Edring 	bye Ele
[12:37]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)	I hope the bug will be fixed..
[12:37]	Imaze Rhiano 	wwaaaaait... what bout Nyx's bear?
[12:38]	eithne Blaylock 	ya know in all my years in sl i have never even seen a linden bear
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