Mesh/Archive/2011-08-29

==Agenda==
# Mesh objects with physics shape type prim switch silently to physics shape type convex hull when any dimension becomes less than 0.5m, but standard prims subject to PE accounting by linkage to mesh do not. This allows extremely high physics costs. I was able to make a linkset with more than 15,000 PE by linking a simple mesh cube to three 4-turn, hollow, profile cut toruses. It was immediately returned and could not then be rezzed in an empty sandbox. Is this a deliberate difference? or should this switch be applied to PE-accounted standard prims to prevent catastrophic returns? [Drongle McMahon]
# I know it is too early in the process for the materials project to start. But, I just wanted to let you guys know that there is a material/shader wishlist on the forums [Ashasekayi Ra]: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Materials-Project-Wishlist/td-p/1057107
# Which mesh features are currently being worked on since mesh has been officially released? [Ashasekayi Ra]
# Recently I made a post in the mesh "forums" about not being able to upload my tree, measuring at its longest 241m (the Z axis). This object was giving me crashs rather than reporting errors most of the time, but when it finally did remain stable and show me an error box, it stated it was over 256m. The reasoning was mentioned in patch notes I learned, but I wonder a) Why it says 256m when it should now be 240m (unless an importer fix is forthcoming to allow 256m on a side per upload), and b) Why it bothers to check the Z axis at all when importing, since we've got essentially unlimited height to work with in a sim. [Feynt Mistral]
#mesh sandboxes being retired; we need to find a new permanent home for this user group. Any ideas/preferences? [Charlar Linden]
# Does Charlie have time left for anything but manuall enabling peoples's mesh capability? [Drongle]
# We still can't edit people's attached, rigged meshes. Will this be enabled at some point? Seems like a picking issue. [Feynt Mistral]
# MESH (Moo Spyker)
# Who do we offer potential knowlege base stuff to? [Drongle]
# I found the case that the PE of big object is Smaller than the PE of small object. [Yuzuru Jewell]
# PE, y u no consistent? http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/605-y-u-no-guy.jpg [Feynt Mistral]
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Anastasios Aurotharius (anastasios.aurotharius)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Asterion Coen (asterion.coen)
*Cale Flanagan (cale.flanagan)
*Charlie (charlar.linden)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Feynt Mistral (feynt.mistral)
*fiore Samiam (fiore.samiam)
*Jeremy Linden (jeremy.linden)
*Liisa Runo (liisa.runo)
*Maxwell Graf (maxwell.graf)
*Medhue Simoni (medhue.simoni)
*Mesh Release (mesh.release)
*Moo Spyker (moo.spyker)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*oobscure (opensource.obscure)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Racush (racush.cheeky)
*Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Skygirl Kline (skygirl.kline)
*Tree Kyomoon (tree.kyomoon)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
*Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday August 29, 2011==
[12:00]	Tree Kyomoon 	charlie i love your avvie. Its quite lovely
[12:01]	Tree Kyomoon 	is this a voicey meeting or texty meeting?
[12:01]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I need to wait a minute before we start
[12:01]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Text, so it can be logged.
[12:01]	oobscure (opensource.obscure) 	txtxtxtxtxtxtx
[12:03]	Moo Spyker 	HOLY CRAP LINDENS!
[12:03]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	one more sec
[12:03]	Tree Kyomoon 	if you hold lindens upside down and shake them
[12:03]	Jeremy Linden 	I'm not a crap Linden!
[12:03]	Tree Kyomoon 	nothing happens
[12:03]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	eeeeaaaaaaaah!!! <:0
[12:03]	Asterion Coen 	hey jeremy ! ltns :)
[12:04]	Cale Flanagan 	hmm no jeremy linden bear in inventory...:)
[12:04]	Feynt Mistral 	Morning.
[12:04]	Vir Linden 	Howdy folks
[12:05]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	ok, let's start
[12:05]	Jeremy Linden 	Hey all. Charlie invited me to be a special guest today. I may not be all that interesting :-)
[12:05]	Asterion Coen 	hi Vir
[12:05]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey vir
[12:05]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Koli Contepomi waves. :o
[12:05]	Skygirl Kline 	hi
[12:05]	Jeremy Linden 	Jeremy Linden takes Linden bear requests via IM.
[12:05]	Tree Kyomoon 	Tree Kyomoon waves
[12:05]	Eleanora Newell 	hiya, jeremy
[12:05]	Drongle McMahon 	What's your speciality, Jeremy?
[12:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello
[12:05]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	first, you should note that regular attendees Dave and nyx are out.
[12:05]	Cale Flanagan 	gotcha:)
[12:05]	Jeremy Linden 	I write articles for the SL Knowledge Base.
[12:05]	Drongle McMahon 	Out ????
[12:05]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha waves to Vivienne
[12:05]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:05]	Feynt Mistral 	Dave and Nyx are off working on materials now? >D
[12:06]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	Vir i might be able to help you get the windoea build going right for the OS stub
[12:06]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	we may have some questions that will be deferred. After all I'm only a tree - I don't know everything.
[12:06]	Vir Linden 	Some lame excuse about "needing a vacation"
[12:06]	Feynt Mistral 	Boo
[12:06]	Tree Kyomoon 	so...not a tree of knowledge then?
[12:06]	Feynt Mistral 	Where's our custom armature support!
[12:06]	Vivienne Daguerre 	hehe
[12:06]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	sadly no
[12:06]	Feynt Mistral 	And I want a pony!
[12:06]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	someone had to be a tree of ignorance...
[12:06]	Tree Kyomoon 	id hate to get kicked out for eating your apples
[12:07]	Feynt Mistral 	>3
[12:07]	Vir Linden 	wolfpup, you mean for llconvexdecomposition?
[12:07]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	yes vir
[12:07]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#1 Mesh objects with physics shape type prim switch silently to physics shape type convex hull when any dimension becomes less than 0.5m, but standard prims subject to PE accounting by linkage to mesh do not. This allows extremely high physics costs. I was able to make a linkset with more than 15,000 PE by linking a simple mesh cube to three 4-turn, hollow, profile cut toruses. It was immediately returned and could not then be rezzed in an empty sandbox. Is this a deliberate difference? or should this switch be applied to PE-accounted standard prims to prevent catastrophic returns? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:07]	Vir Linden 	thanks, I currently have that assigned to me. Will drop you a line if I get stuck.
[12:08]	Jeremy Linden 	Uh. Guess I'll turn off my HUD
[12:08]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Haha.
[12:08]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	Vir you migt look at some of the work done in open-105
[12:09]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I'm not positive about the minimum size, but yes if some dimensions are small we make it a convex hull.
[12:10]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	So the question is, do we not apply the convex hull to prims in this situation?
[12:10]	Anastasios Aurotharius 	are we chatting in text or voice?
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon 	But, should I make a jira asking for this to be done with standard prims too? To stop horrible mistakes.
[12:10]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	text
[12:10]	Anastasios Aurotharius 	cool, thanks :)
[12:10]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Yes, Drongle. please do
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon 	OK. I will.
[12:11]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I can't say yet whether it's a 'bug' but I'd like to research it further either way.
[12:11]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	thanks
[12:11]	Vir Linden 	Does it work if you explicitly change the physics type for the prim?
[12:11]	Jeremy Linden 	We're in text for the user group, Anastasios. Though we might be privately talking to each other in voice :-)
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon 	I'll put it as a feature req uest.
[12:11]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next item
[12:11]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#2 I know it is too early in the process for the materials project to start. But, I just wanted to let you guys know that there is a material/shader wishlist on the forums [Ashasekayi Ra]: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Materials-Project-Wishlist/td-p/1057107
[12:12]	Drongle McMahon 	Can'r remember, Vir. I'll check for the jira.
[12:12]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	We saw that -- thanks!
[12:12]	Anastasios Aurotharius 	thanks :)
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	:)
[12:12]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	If we were doing Materials, your input would be desired.
[12:12]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	;-)
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Sweet
[12:12]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next?
[12:12]	Feynt Mistral 	I've got a few builds dying for normal mapping.
[12:12]	Vir Linden 	It's on our "things we want to do" list, no promises
[12:13]	Feynt Mistral 	Feynt Mistral nods
[12:13]	Moo Spyker 	You kind of can do materals already on my projects I have a seperate "face" and apply a shine using the SL texture tools, makes all those faces appear to have Spec maps
[12:14]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	You can cheat that way with bump too, but it makes way too many polygons.
[12:14]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	About 1bit alpha?
[12:14]	Vir Linden 	Racush, I like the flourescent jello dinosaur effect
[12:14]	Feynt Mistral 	>3
[12:15]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#3 Which mesh features are currently being worked on since mesh has been officially released? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:15]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	We have a follow-on release planned
[12:16]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	it contains mostly small tweaks and fixes. Things we couldn't add to thefirst release for stability purposes
[12:16]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	you can see it in the mesh dev build
[12:16]	Vir Linden 	Adding UI to expose additional accounting info, cleaning up the uploader dialog, bug fixes.
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	Pivit offsets?
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	*pivot
[12:17]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I was just going to ask that.
[12:17]	Vir Linden 	Prep is on the way, will ask him
[12:17]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Koli Contepomi waves to Prep.
[12:18]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	hi prep
[12:18]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Heya Prep
[12:18]	Prep Linden 	yoyo
[12:18]	Asterion Coen 	hello prep
[12:18]	Moo Spyker 	I really have not found the extra data of pivot offsets nessasary, You can use a single triangle thats flattened to only 2 points and stretch that to move the offset in any direction, if that makes sense
[12:19]	Prep Linden 	Pivot offsets won't be in release 2 - there is some server work that still needs to be done.
[12:19]	Feynt Mistral 	Feynt Mistral nods
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Any progress on the Blender joint offset issue?
[12:20]	Drongle McMahon 	Moo. You are right that you can work around, but lots of people wanted this.
[12:20]	Prep Linden 	asha: what joint offset issue?
[12:20]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The one with Blender 2.5.
[12:21]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The mesh comes out mangled. I think the forum link is in the log from last week.
[12:21]	Prep Linden 	yup that issue is because the 2.5 exporter rotates the armatures 90 degrees.
[12:22]	Prep Linden 	So there are work arounds but I haven't seen any info if a fix has been added to 2.5.
[12:23]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	hrm I did get a 2.5.x to import ok
[12:23]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	with offsets
[12:23]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Really?
[12:23]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	yeah just used the current stable build off the main site
[12:23]	Prep Linden 	racush: great to hear. I assume it's the absolutely bleeding edge release then?
[12:23]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	nah
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	2.59?
[12:24]	Maxwell Graf 	...HOLA!!...
[12:24]	Eleanora Newell 	racush, could you do a thread on how you did it....oh, you did nothing in particular different?
[12:24]	Maxwell Graf 	sorry im late!
[12:24]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	yeah just 2.59
[12:24]	Feynt Mistral 	Clearly more research is required.
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hmm :/
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Heya Max
[12:24]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	just did the same stuff I do in 2.49
[12:24]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next...
[12:24]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#4 Recently I made a post in the mesh "forums" about not being able to upload my tree, measuring at its longest 241m (the Z axis). This object was giving me crashs rather than reporting errors most of the time, but when it finally did remain stable and show me an error box, it stated it was over 256m. The reasoning was mentioned in patch notes I learned, but I wonder a) Why it says 256m when it should now be 240m (unless an importer fix is forthcoming to allow 256m on a side per upload), and b) Why it bothers to check the Z axis at all when importing, since we've got essentially unlimited height to work with in a sim. [Feynt Mistral]
[12:25]	Feynt Mistral 	Two part question. >)
[12:27]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	This is a linkset or a coalesced object?
[12:28]	Feynt Mistral 	I'm guessing the latter. It's a mesh split into roughly 64m parts and uploaded together.
[12:28]	Feynt Mistral 	In total it is over 240m tall, and about 150x140 on x and y
[12:28]	Feynt Mistral 	I've got an upload of it on the beta grid I can show off.
[12:29]	Mesh Release 	wpw you need a tree with 240x150x140m ?????
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	Hells yeah. >D
[12:29]	Vir Linden 	That's a big tree
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	It's going to be a centerpiece build for Serenity Woods.
[12:29]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha laughs
[12:29]	Feynt Mistral 	Go big or go home. >3
[12:30]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	well Z is as important an axis as anything else -- because things can be rotated freely
[12:30]	Tree Kyomoon 	just dont plant it on top of a cache of unobtanium, whatever you do
[12:30]	Vir Linden 	lol
[12:30]	Feynt Mistral 	Funny you should mention that, the sim owner wanted it to resemble the home tree...
[12:31]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	as for the size issue. I think we'd have to see it. Possibly there's more to the object - offset pivot points perhaps?
[12:31]	Vir Linden 	If the correct limit is 240, it's possible the error message is just out of date.
[12:31]	Feynt Mistral 	Nope
[12:31]	Moo Spyker 	maybe upload each part indivdually and reposition in world?
[12:31]	Feynt Mistral 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Error-uploading-mesh-Mesh-exceeds-256m/td-p/1065807
[12:31]	Cale Flanagan 	or upload downsclaed and scale up later?
[12:32]	Feynt Mistral 	The thread in question.
[12:32]	Feynt Mistral 	Yeah I would have to I suppose.
[12:32]	Vir Linden 	Please file a JIRA for the crash.
[12:33]	Feynt Mistral 	Will do.
[12:33]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	We'll catch up on the thread, Thanks Feynt
[12:33]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	moving on...
[12:33]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	mesh sandboxes being retired; we need to find a new permanent home for this user group. Any ideas/preferences? [Charlar Linden]
[12:33]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	"long time listener, first time called"
[12:33]	Moo Spyker 	I will miss all this water =O
[12:33]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Should we go back to Aditi?
[12:34]	Feynt Mistral 	Yeah, I think that's best.
[12:34]	Feynt Mistral 	We've got all those mesh sandboxes, and it also promotes sharing of meshes. >D
[12:34]	Liisa Runo 	no, lets stay in this grid, plenty of empty plots in linden village
[12:34]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	or find a spot here
[12:34]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	or may be one of the release channels
[12:34]	Feynt Mistral 	Free money to upload with.
[12:34]	fiore Samiam 	yes please, a sandbox sim went offline in aditi so I have no chance to pick up my items.
[12:34]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	I much prefer this grid.
[12:34]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I'd vote for Aditi.
[12:35]	Feynt Mistral 	With the Lindens on Aditi, they'd take better care of it too, btw. >3
[12:35]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I'd vote for Aditi, too.
[12:35]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	ouch!
[12:35]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	>.>
[12:35]	Feynt Mistral 	Well it's not like we can file a ticket for an Aditi sim that went down.
[12:36]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	the mesh upload point is valid
[12:36]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Free upload is a big point for when wanting to show a problem mesh
[12:36]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	but, aditi is less stable (by design)
[12:36]	Vir Linden 	may be running a different server build
[12:37]	Feynt Mistral 	Well, it's also good to show off bugs in the newest candidates.
[12:37]	Feynt Mistral 	"I was trying to upload this earlier and look what happened!" *crash*
[12:37]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	but on aditi you can test fixes for both server and viewer side with out having to worry about whole sections of the grid being restaterd to implament those fixes
[12:37]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	ok, seems like aditi is the overall favorite.
[12:37]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I like agni, but your points are good.
[12:38]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	if i don't hear anything in the next few seconds, I'll get it set up on aditi for next week.
[12:38]	Cale Flanagan 	maybe one meetingper month here, the others there.. just a silly idea
[12:38]	Feynt Mistral 	That works too.
[12:39]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	as the work on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-105 porgresses a lot of the inital testing will need to be on aditi
[12:39]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	sounds confusing to me, let's keep it consistent for while at least.
[12:40]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	moving on...
[12:40]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#6 Does Charlie have time left for anything but manuall enabling peoples's mesh capability? [Drongle]
[12:40]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I like consistant
[12:40]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	no, he doesn't
[12:40]	Cale Flanagan 	you should hire the guy behind the door
[12:40]	Drongle McMahon 	:-(
[12:40]	Vivienne Daguerre 	buy that door!
[12:41]	Medhue Simoni 	lol
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:41]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next?
[12:41]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#7 We still can't edit people's attached, rigged meshes. Will this be enabled at some point? Seems like a picking issue. [Feynt Mistral]
[12:42]	Prep Linden 	Yup, we got a jira for that one.
[12:42]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	lol
[12:43]	Cale Flanagan 	im just editing chartlars tree
[12:43]	Feynt Mistral 	Ah good, didn't catch it on the JIRA.
[12:43]	Feynt Mistral 	It's hard to find things on the JIRA sometimes...
[12:43]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Viv - nice one
[12:43]	Vivienne Daguerre 	hehe
[12:43]	Prep Linden 	feynt: sure is ;-)
[12:43]	Vivienne Daguerre 	we aim to please
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha waits for the magical fix it man to come out of the door.
[12:43]	Vir Linden 	Hopefully it won't hit him in the ash.
[12:43]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	now you need to put a little helper gnome behind it
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#8 MESH (Moo Spyker)
[12:44]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Vivienne Daguerre smiles...
[12:44]	Vivienne Daguerre 	or a boogey man
[12:44]	Vir Linden 	Moo, we agree.
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Moo?
[12:44]	Moo Spyker 	MESH
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	form of a question, please
[12:44]	Moo Spyker 	sorry
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	haha
[12:44]	Moo Spyker 	you guys should be happy I have no rage now
[12:44]	Moo Spyker 	lol
[12:44]	Moo Spyker 	next
[12:44]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	you are out of rage
[12:45]	Moo Spyker 	for now =P
[12:45]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I can't believe it
[12:45]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	whew. I was worried
[12:45]	Feynt Mistral 	I can't create rigged fingers or tails yet, I'm still in rage mode!
[12:45]	Maxwell Graf 	if you have the out of rage bug, please file a jira.
[12:45]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	heh
[12:45]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	I thought we'd have to raise PE just to get you mad again...
[12:45]	Moo Spyker 	rofl
[12:45]	fiore Samiam 	Charlar, dont dont dont :P
[12:46]	Feynt Mistral 	Oh yes, that brings to mind another question.
[12:46]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	if everybody stays cool, I won't
[12:46]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	hehe
[12:46]	Feynt Mistral 	PE, y u no consistent?
[12:46]	Medhue Simoni 	There are many other ways too, lol
[12:46]	Prep Linden 	charlar has way too much power ;-)
[12:46]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	MWAHHHAAA
[12:47]	Feynt Mistral 	I upload my tree once, it uploads as 79 PE. I upload it again a few minutes later and it's 62 PE. Absolutely nothing changed, and it's the same scale.
[12:47]	Feynt Mistral 	So wtf?
[12:47]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	i've gone mad with (lack of) power
[12:47]	Mesh Release 	Jeremy only vistor today ? or he want say zs something ?
[12:47]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha snorts
[12:47]	Medhue Simoni 	Trees should not have that much power
[12:47]	Jeremy Linden 	Ooh, I see something on the agenda about how to suggest new Knowledge Base content. Can you guys submit DOC Jiras?
[12:47]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Feynt - hold on, lets talk about that after the other agenda items
[12:47]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next
[12:47]	Moo Spyker 	yeah I've also noticed that inconsist PE upload thing
[12:47]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#10 I found the case that the PE of big object is Smaller than the PE of small object. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:48]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	oops
[12:48]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Please check my Mt fuji over there.
[12:48]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Jumped ahead
[12:48]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	sorry
[12:48]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#9 Who do we offer potential knowlege base stuff to? [Drongle]
[12:48]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	yuzuru - my mistake
[12:49]	Maxwell Graf 	Who do we offer bacon coffee cake to in order to expedite a jira?
[12:49]	Jeremy Linden 	So, I *think* the proper way to do this is to submit a new "Documentation" JIRA. I apologize for not being prepared for this question in advance!
[12:49]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	bacon coffe cake? :/
[12:49]	Jeremy Linden 	Also, all the mesh documentation on the wiki is editable by Residents. I welcome any information you would like to contribute :-)
[12:49]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	bacon coffee cake?
[12:49]	Maxwell Graf 	or bacon/coffee/cake
[12:50]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:50]	Maxwell Graf 	they can be split up
[12:50]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[12:50]	Feynt Mistral 	Though bacon coffee cake is awesome.
[12:50]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Can I edit Japanese page of Mesh wiki??
[12:50]	Feynt Mistral 	In an artery clogging way.
[12:50]	Jeremy Linden 	Also, SL Answers answers can be nominated for promotion to KB articles.
[12:51]	Jeremy Linden 	Yes, Yuzuru. If a page appears to be editable, you are allowed to edit it. We lock pages that should not be edited (like anything in the Linden Lab Official namespace)
[12:51]	Feynt Mistral 	JIRA for scale crashes: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-26805
[12:51]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you.
[12:52]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	next
[12:52]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#10 I found the case that the PE of big object is Smaller than the PE of small object. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:53]	Feynt Mistral 	Feynt Mistral tacks on his question to the end of the agenda.
[12:53]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	thanks Feyny
[12:53]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Feynt
[12:54]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Small is 196PE but big is 115PE..
[12:54]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Yuzuru - when you make this bigger, PE goes down, right?
[12:54]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Yes
[12:54]	Feynt Mistral 	Awesome.
[12:54]	Feynt Mistral 	Good news for my giant tree. >3
[12:54]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I made big one from small one
[12:55]	Drongle McMahon 	It's physics weight.
[12:55]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Physics goes up as scale decreases
[12:55]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	the shape becomes more complex for collision
[12:56]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Where I must check?
[12:56]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Edit floater
[12:56]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	if you turn on debug.
[12:57]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	ShowAdvancedSettings
[12:57]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	with Rel 2 this is much more exposed, much easier.
[12:57]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	OK I will check it later.
[12:57]	Drongle McMahon 	advanced:debug settings:showAdvancedBuilderOptions?
[12:57]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	Please try the mesh dev viwer on aditi,
[12:57]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	oh, yep, that's it Drongle
[12:57]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	OK Thank you.
[12:58]	Jeremy Linden 	There is a highly technical document about physics weight on the wiki: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Mesh_physics
[12:58]	Vir Linden 	advanced builder stuff is definitely work in progress, btw.
[12:58]	Medhue Simoni 	without the open GL fix, I can't use any of them.
[12:58]	Vivienne Daguerre 	advanced builder stuff just for mesh, or better for builders in general, with things like prim and texture alignment?
[12:58]	Drongle McMahon 	It would be nice if we could see the actual code, as with the download weight.
[12:59]	Mesh Release 	i hope calcon read the wiki for vehicel-physic
[12:59]	Mesh Release 	falcon
[13:00]	Feynt Mistral 	And last one? Or that's it?
[13:01]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	#11 PE, y u no consistent? http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/605-y-u-no-guy.jpg [Feynt Mistral]
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	>3
[13:01]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	can you show us the example?
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	As I said, I uploaded my tree once and it was 79 PE. A few minutes later I uploaded it again and it was 62 PE.
[13:01]	Feynt Mistral 	I can show you this on the beta grid.
[13:02]	Vir Linden 	Feynt, LOD generation is non-deterministic.
[13:02]	Feynt Mistral 	I turned off the LoDs below highest.
[13:02]	Vir Linden 	That might be the issue, but I would be surprised to see that big a difference.
[13:02]	Feynt Mistral 	Only the original mesh was present.
[13:02]	Medhue Simoni 	I notice it will change which object is the main linking prim, maybe this is why it changes
[13:02]	Drongle McMahon 	Try these?
[13:02]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	hmm - can you share it with us? the dae and slm?
[13:03]	Feynt Mistral 	There's a good example I guess.
[13:03]	Vir Linden 	Please file a JIRA - not sure what would cause that.
[13:03]	Feynt Mistral 	I can share the dae file, yes, but I'd rather not upload to a JIRA.
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf 	my, what giant balls you have.
[13:03]	Maxwell Graf 	0.0
[13:03]	Drongle McMahon 	Charlie. My examples are in Mesh City. Described in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2045
[13:04]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	email is fine Feynt
[13:04]	Asterion Coen 	max, dont say that, charlar will think u want to test it :)
[13:04]	Drongle McMahon 	No comment, Maxwell
[13:04]	Maxwell Graf 	Nuuuuuuu!
[13:04]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	And that's it - thanks everybody!
[13:04]	Jeremy Linden 	Ok guys, I've got to run to another meeting. If you've got any more Knowledge Base or wiki questions, the Community Tools usergroup is on Thursday: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[13:04]	Medhue Simoni 	Max that was worth me tping here today
[13:05]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	haha
[13:05]	Maxwell Graf 	:D
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden 	!
[13:05]	Asterion Coen 	have fun jeremy !
[13:05]	Skygirl Kline 	byes
[13:05]	Eleanora Newell 	thanks, everyone
[13:05]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	cheers - you are a great group.
[13:05]	Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Koli Contepomi waves. :o
[13:05]	Vir Linden 	Bye all.
[13:05]	Medhue Simoni 	cya
[13:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	See you!
[13:05]	Prep Linden 	Till next week folks - have a good one.
[13:05]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Vivienne Daguerre smiles...
[13:05]	Vivienne Daguerre 	have a great day
[13:06]	Charlie (charlar.linden) 	remember - mesh sandboxes go away this evening!
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