WindLight/Office Hours/2007-11-20

Pastrami Linden: so, since we have no planned agenda,
Pastrami Linden: we'd like to just open up the floor to any questions you guys have
Sorraya Pera: i like me evil style
Toonja Imtiaz: ok ko
JJ5x5 Underwood: lol
Sorraya Pera: ;p
Pastrami Linden: anyone? any questions?
Sorraya Pera: hey JJ dont look onther me skirt
Sorraya Pera: :P
JJ5x5 Underwood: >_>
You shout: I see Seraph and Green over there!
Toonja Imtiaz: jj you perv
JJ5x5 Underwood: ........
JJ5x5 Underwood: =>_<=
Toonja Imtiaz: it already on the news that 2 pervs are on sl
Toonja Imtiaz: so cut it lol
Toonja Imtiaz Dies
Zen Linden: zorin. are you on mac now?
Zorin Frobozz: Yeah, on the Macbook Pro
Torley Linden: OMG BigPapi, that av rules.
Torley Linden: You're a mini-airship!
Zen Linden: zorin: try turning off hardware skinning. Sometimes that helps on mac
Sorraya Pera: who is making a pic?
Sorraya Pera: pict
Zorin Frobozz: I have basic shaders and atmospheric shaders off and am still only getting about 7.3fps
Zarkela Tucker: Greetings
Zorin Frobozz: Might be the unrezzed sculpts, though. Those slow the client down for some reason
Second Life: You have left the group 'Second Opinion Subscribers'.
Pastrami Linden: hey all - chime in with any questions or comments you have on WindLight!
Torley Linden: Yes, and if you've already reported or know of a specific issue URL, please paste that in the open... it really helps so we can have a look at the details.
Torley Linden: Welcome all to our WindLight open office hour!
Zarkela Tucker: Well, I love it myself, only thing is, on my video card, glow does not work
Torley Linden: Zarkela, what's your graphics card?
Zorin Frobozz: Well, I'd like to know why Mac OS X performance has been so lacking in general. People are reporting much higher framerates on similar hardware in Windows which is depressing.
Torley Linden: WindLight open bugs -- http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10970
Zorin Frobozz: Other games, like Quake 4, which depend heavily on OpenGL, don't seem to have these shortcomings.
Zarkela Tucker: ATI Radeon x1600
01 Hifeng: when i have atmospheric shaders turned on i see black shapes in the sky...
Pastrami Linden: 01, what is your hardware?
01 Hifeng: GeForce 8400M GT GPU
Pastrami Linden: is that M for mobile?
Torley Linden: I've heard of that "black shapes" thing from some, I think there's an open issue for it.
01 Hifeng: i guess, i'm on laptop
Torley Linden: *has a look*
Pastrami Linden: 01, can you describe the black shapes?
Brad Linden: Zorin: We rely pretty heavily on GLSL, a newer feature of OpenGL, for which Apple's drivers do not seem to be quite stable.
Zarkela Tucker: AMD cpu, 221- mhz, microsoft windows xp version 2
Zen Linden: Zorin, most of our problems with mac stem from our use of glsl. For some reason normal texture lookups in shaders seem to cause it to fall back to software shaders (i.e. much much slower... like 2 fps). We've been in touch with nvidia and apple about it and are doing what we can
01 Hifeng: hah
Mercia McMahon: just noting for later discussion there is a problem with the Classified Side Bar in Search All, in the meantime yo can check http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3341
Ceera Murakami: I'm going to have to buy a new computer to see any positive effects from Windlight. It's completely beyond what either my Mac Mini or my windows PC can handle. Eitehr system is, admitedly, at the bottom of the barrel for SL, but I can't see the sky or water effects at all, and my frame rate is 1 to 3 FPS in Windlight.
01 Hifeng: i don't know... they look a little like a... puzzle?
Shannen Zhora: sorry
Torley Linden: 01, does this look like what you're seeing? " Black Flickering "Cubes" In Sky And Water" - http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3166
Pastrami Linden: Ceera
Pastrami Linden: is that on the "Low" setting
Pastrami Linden: in Graphics Prefs.?
Shannen Zhora: toon where is sorraya
Toonja Imtiaz: dunno
Ceera Murakami: Is there any plan for a prim effect that can maych Windlight water? As a builder, the fact that prim rivers and lakes won't look the least bit like Linden water is a major negative from Windlight.
Pastrami Linden: Ceera, we *are* thinking about something like that
01 Hifeng: no, it looks different. it's similar, but it's not so soild
Zen Linden: Zorin: are you running leopard?
01 Hifeng: it's blurry
Pastrami Linden: and to address your first point Ceera - what setting are you on in the Graphics Prefs.?
Pastrami Linden: (Ctrl+P)
01 Hifeng: i can take a screen and report it
01 Hifeng: if it's isn't reported yet
Ceera Murakami: Pastrami, I can't change settings at all with a Mac Mini, It's forced to the lowest possuble settings
Torley Linden: 01, please do, that'd be appreciated... and your drivers are already up-to-date right?
01 Hifeng: yes
Pastrami Linden: Ceera, so your slider is locked at "Low"?
Patchouli Woollahra: News flash, Ceera, Mac Minis don't do anything very well.
Ceera Murakami: Mac Mini: Only 32 MB VRAM, 512 MB RAM, Latest drivers, Mac OS X 10.3.9. And yeah, I ma replacing it at the end of the month, because it no longer is even marginally adequate for SL.
Patchouli Woollahra: The cooling on those things is appalling, so your options to get empowered for anything multimedia intensive is a joke.
Zen Linden: zorin: we also haven't ironed out all the bugs with leopard either. We only recently have been developing on it.
Patchouli Woollahra: Don't junk it though - it makes a great alternate CPU for typing stuff while you're on SL. get a KVM switcher.
Entering god mode, level 200
Zorin Frobozz: By the way... the texture memory slider is broken in advanced graphics prefs. I had to go into the config file to set it.
01 Hifeng: uh, come on :/
Zorin Frobozz: be back in a second.
Jamma Newt: i would definitely second Ceera's request for some sort of prim water feature to more closely match Windlight water
Jamma Newt: Zorin, you can also use TextureMemory in the Debug settings for that
Ceera Murakami: The other system is a Win XP tower, Intel Integrated graphics, 64 MB VRAM, 512 MB RAM. Hardly any better. With that, the only Windlight pref that I can change is the sun position, I can't even access the advanced controls. And in prefs, 3/4 of the graphics options are greyed out.
Uildiar Kuhn: lul
Pastrami Linden: Ceera, what's your framerate with that?
Ceera Murakami: I will say this: Thank you for restoring the particle clouds!
Pastrami Linden: :)
Torley Linden: And re: texture memory slider bug, yup, also a known issue.
Ceera Murakami: 1 to 3 FPS with Windlight.
Zorin Frobozz: Alright knocked down my texture memory. I just remembered having it set equal to actual VRAM causes problems.
Torley Linden: We are going to be rapidly triaging the hottest WindLight bugs, fixing them, and moving on to subsequent batches in passes.
Torley Linden: For anyone who's curious:
Torley Linden: OPEN WINDLIGHT BUGS - http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10970
Torley Linden: RESOLVED WINDLIGHT BUGS - http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10352
Ceera Murakami: I am on the current Windows Release Cleint right now, and my frame rate here at this moment is... 1.3 FPS, because there are so many people near me.
Pastrami Linden: and what would you get with the normal viewer?
Patchouli Woollahra thinks she may have found another odd behavior change in Windlight.
Torley Linden: Ceera: Related, in crowd scenes, if you turn on Avatar Impostors, that can speed things up noticeably.
Torley Linden: Are you already familiar with that feature?
Patchouli Woollahra: my invisiprims are hiding shiny prims.
Uildiar Kuhn: www.newegg.com
Uildiar Kuhn: i suggest upgrades
Tya Fallingbridge: For Second Life Version 2.0 is the plan to release WIndlight, Havoc 4 and Mono at the same time? just curious :)
Ceera Murakami: About the same with the normal viewer, 3 to 5 FPS in most non-crowded areas.
Patchouli Woollahra: http://eyo.com.au
BigPapi Linden: Patchouli: that's been long fixed, the next release will not have that error
Torley Linden: And by the way, I know some of you may've been wondering — Avatar Impostors relates to the Avatars Mesh Detail slider, so if you want Impostors to show up at further distances, then make Avatars Mesh Detail the highest (all the way to the right). For quicker performance, move it all the way to the left.
Patchouli Woollahra: newsflash, Tya: rolling out too much new tech at once is a recipe for disaster.
Patchouli Woollahra: if it breaks, you can't tell where it broke.
Pastrami Linden: well, Ceera, in that case, we don't really have much to make it *faster* than the normal viewer!
Pastrami Linden: I thought you were seeing a big drop
Tya Fallingbridge: not if they are all working together cause it appears to me and others that could be the case
Tya Fallingbridge: they all go hand in hand to make sl run smoother
Ceera Murakami: Yup. As I said, I am getting a whole new computer soon. Top of the line Mac Pro tower and the ATI 512 MB VRAM x1900 card, with 2 GB RAM.
Pastrami Linden: Ceera, you *may* get a frame or two per second mroe with that rig ;)
Tya Fallingbridge: lol
Patchouli Woollahra: tyvm.
Zorin Frobozz: I must say I like the texture memory slider. This way I can find the exact number that works best rather than having to go straight to *half*
Patchouli Woollahra: You have no idea how many goth bootmakers will cry war if shiny+invisiprim behavior breaks.
Zarkela Tucker: I do find on my current system, Windlight runs faster
Patchouli Woollahra: "Hey, where's mah shiny stabby studs?" And then they will chase SL's smallest dirigible.
Pastrami Linden: Zarkela, good to hear
Pastrami Linden: at which setting, may I ask?
Zorin Frobozz: Another issue... when atmospheric shaders are off, the standard "fog" doesn't seem to work right
Zarkela Tucker: High, currently
Torley Linden: How so, Zorin?
Torley Linden listens.
BigPapi Linden: Patchouli: I answered above: the shiny + invisiprim issue HAS been fixed. The next release of WindLight will contain that fix.
Ceera Murakami: Well, I do hope that in all seriousness, you get the frame rate on Macs to match what the Windows client gets. I would hate to have to buy Win XP and run it under Botcamp just to get decent SL performance on the best system Apple makes.
Zarkela Tucker: Going to Ultra, I do not notice much of a slow down either
Zorin Frobozz: Well it used to create a fog that would make things fade as they are farther away.. now there's no longer a fox and you can see clearly out to infinity. This looks weird because things just barely in draw distance are "too visible", if that makes sense
Pastrami Linden: Ceera,
Pastrami Linden: all depends on which OSX you get
Pastrami Linden: pre-Leopard and I'd say your chances are pretty good to get blazing performance
Ceera Murakami: Leopard
Torley Linden: Zorin: Hmmm... *checks quickly* I remember it working right in an earlier build...
Pastrami Linden: Leopard has some known issues right now
Pastrami Linden: we will get them fixed
Zorin Frobozz: I wonder what happened with Leopard. I thought they were going to optimize and improve the GL drivers
Pastrami Linden: but just thought you should know
Torley Linden: Zorin, try also turning Basic Shaders off and then using the fog?
Mercia McMahon: no pastrami, unless you have sorted the mac book pro issues I know people who run SL in Vista because it is atrocious in Tiger
Patchouli Woollahra: Zorin: Apple has dropped the ball with regards to realtime 3d for so long, my faculty gave up on it.
Ceera Murakami: I know I'll have to adjust some parameters at forst. But Leopard is what ships on new systems now.
Pastrami Linden: Mercia, do you know which GPUs they have?
Pastrami Linden: the two problem cases now are MacBooks with 8600s and Leopard
Patchouli Woollahra: Zorin: The next major lab upgrade this Christmas will have Wintel all over it on the last node.
Jadem Gruppman: Who came up with the Logitech LCD support idea?
Zorin Frobozz: Yep, that was it. Basic shaders are incompatible with the fog?
Patchouli Woollahra: Uildar: this isn't the Demonoiders forum.
Saquan Jinn: cast box
Mercia McMahon: afraid not I switched back to PCs because Macs that are good with Sl are over-priced, but a Lindenset up a meta on JIRA about Mac Book Pro, ask her/him
Saquan Jinn: cast shock
Saquan Jinn: cast fire barrage
Ceera Murakami: I seriously considered buying a wintel gaming rig instead. But I am a content creator, and all my creative aps, liek Photoshop, are Mac versions. It would cost me thousands extra to buy Wintel versions of all my applications.
Zarkela Tucker: Will Windlight eventually cover more graphics cards?
Sweetcandie Mifflin: hi
Patchouli Woollahra: Ceera: news flash: a lot of companies offer crossgrades at minor fractions of the original price.
Patchouli Woollahra: in fact, some even toss it in free of charge.
Pastrami Linden: Zarkela, you mean will it be runable on more low-end cards?
Patchouli Woollahra: like, box it up in the same box all together?
Tya Fallingbridge: i think one of the major concerns for residents and also estate owners, is that if you custom a sky, will it be possible to give a person your sky setting like as in inventory and if people would see the default sky setting on your own sim when they teleport?
Zarkela Tucker: Aye
Zorin Frobozz: Also, there seems to be problems with locking the camera on things with option click here... it keeps locking on at the screen center instead of where i click.
Zorin Frobozz: When I try to lock on the stage it locks onto where the benches are.
Torley Linden: Tya: Yes, basically, we're going to move WindLight over to the server-side too, and replace the current way things are done. So it'll be more seamless than that, actually. But skies & water will are ALSO planned to be share-able inventory.
Tya Fallingbridge: oh nice :)
Tya Fallingbridge: Woot!
Mercia McMahon thinks Ulidar does not use all in one Macs
Torley Linden: Tya: So if you custom-set a sky as an estate owner, guests will see it without having to monkey around or get a manual inventory drop, etc.
Tya Fallingbridge: wonderful :)
Torley Linden: =D
Patchouli Woollahra: Tya: agreed. Sheer-Surreality + Second Plaque + Blumfield discussion - demonic outbreak = cool.
Torley Linden: HAHAHAAH Patchouli.
Torley Linden: "It's Moses Time!"
shooter Wallace: im late getting here to use windlihgt i need y to use the windlight icon each time i want to log in?
Tya Fallingbridge: i personally love Windlight and the effects it has on builds, my issues are like others, with prims going invisbile and thats it, well lower fps when in windlight
Patchouli Woollahra: and no, I do not think a stuffed penguin with the soul of a murderer and a fannypack of explosives counts.
Torley Linden: And Zorin: Yes, they're incompatible. I just checked with BigPapi (thanks!); WindLight disables GL_FOG (by design).
Torley Linden: shooter: Yes, you need to use that shortcut because it points to the WindLight viewer, which is *different* and *separate* from the "main viewer". WindLight is currently a First Look (think of it as a technology preview).
Zorin Frobozz: Hmm, this is not good. It sucks to see broken landscape in the distance due to fog not working
shooter Wallace: ok
Torley Linden: Tya: We're continuing to work on specific issues as I linked to before, and yup, we know about those ones you mentioned... thanks for bringing them up!
Jamma Newt: also getting a lot of that broken landscape
Torley Linden: Hahaha.
Ceera Murakami: Well, we will see how things look with the new sytem. Glad to hear there is some plan for prim properties that will allow prim water to look like the new Linden water.
Torley Linden: Yeah, I've noticed terrain looks unnaturally broken in the distance too. :\
Tya Fallingbridge: oh i know :) its was just freaking me out when i was working on my sim, i was lke wtf happened to my wall lol
Zorin Frobozz: I think it always has; the fog just obscured it (by design)
Patchouli Woollahra: it's especially pronounced on sims where the land has sume really abrupt changes in altitude.
Zorin Frobozz: Why can't we have gl fog and shaders on at once?
Ceera Murakami: Later folks. I have to go.
Patchouli Woollahra gave you Snapshot : Brampton Linden Stage, Brampton (107, 160, 25).
shooter Wallace: are we ever gonna get live help back????
Gypsy Paz: can I ask off topic? hows Havock4 coming along?
Patchouli Woollahra: shooter: when cows fly.
Dahlia Trimble: Ive noticed that avatar outfits seem to take much longer to appear when teleporting into a new area than in the normal client
Jamma Newt: i feel like asking that other question nobody working on Windlight probably wants to hear - will the default settings be a little softer on avatar facial shadows and contrast? that's really bugging a lot of people
Pastrami Linden: Jamma, don't fell bad
Pastrami Linden: I think it's a huge issue
Pastrami Linden: and I'm working on it as we speak
Torley Linden: Zorin: Hmmm in mid-experimentation I did notice something weird with Distance Multipler and Haze Density not affecting things other than trees as they should... I'll make a note to check this out later.
FlipperPA Peregrine: :)
Tya Fallingbridge: lol
Jamma Newt smiles and hands Pastrami a donut!
FlipperPA Peregrine: Oh gawd, this build it still here? Yikes!
Zorin Frobozz: I'm also curious if you've had any luck fixing the problems under leopard or have any leads at least
Pastrami Linden happily munches it down
Patchouli Woollahra: what build, Flippah?
FlipperPA Peregrine: This stage area - I thre it together in about 10 minutes three years ago or so, hehehehe
Torley Linden: Dahlia, I've heard that anecdotally, but haven't experienced it. Have you also compared that to 1.18.5 RC (non-WindLight)?
Patchouli Woollahra: Eh, whaddya want for it? it's workable.
Torley Linden: Hahah what a classic.
FlipperPA Peregrine: :-)
Tya Fallingbridge: i think they upgraded the furniture though :)
Dahlia Trimble: yes, seems windlight takes a lot longer
FlipperPA Peregrine: If anyone is having trouble with nVidia Go laptop cards (high end), I've finally got it working :)
Torley Linden: Dahlia: I'll keep an eye out for more reports of that.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Shiny water and all :)
Jeremy Linden: The furniture is surplus from Documentation Office Hours in Beaumont. It'll be returned after the hour is up :-)
Dahlia Trimble: :)
Patchouli Woollahra: lolz
Torley Linden: How'd you get that working, Flip? I know it's been plaguing the poor folks in VWR-925.
Tya Fallingbridge: roll back your driver?
FlipperPA Peregrine: Upgrade the driver with a hacked INF file.
FlipperPA Peregrine: I've posted the driver, which should install to most laptops, here:
Patchouli Woollahra: oldest trick in the book.
FlipperPA Peregrine: http://www.sltrivia.com/nVidia.165.01.zip
FlipperPA Peregrine: YMMV, no guarantees :-)
Torley Linden: Flip, do you wanna post a comment in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-925 ? :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Sure! :)
Torley Linden: Thanks!
Tya Fallingbridge: i know you guys prolly get all kinds of screaming and stuff cause of "lag and frame rate drops"
Tya Fallingbridge: but after 4 years in here
Tya Fallingbridge: i think you have done a fantastic job
Tya Fallingbridge: it was worth the wait
Pastrami Linden: thank you Tya!
Torley Linden: Tya: Thanks... :)
Torley Linden: A big focus of the WindLight release is improving net viewer performance.
shooter Wallace: after 3+years i see it getting worse...
Jamma Newt: hear hear! it finally gave me the kick in the trunk to get a new vid card and life is soooo much sweeter now
Torley Linden: I <3 Avatar Impostors, makes such a big difference in crowds.
Patchouli Woollahra: lag and frame rate drops happen all the time, people need to learn to live with it up to a point.
Jadem Gruppman: And the Logitech Keyboard LCD support was a good idea as well.
Torley Linden: If any of you haven't used Impostors yet, give it a shot, see how it works for you.
Torley Linden: We also have the Help menu > Lag Meter which is being improved.
Tya Fallingbridge: what a lot of people do not understand your graphic card and plays such a HUGE Roll in "lag"
Zorin Frobozz: It helps a lot in some areas such as Lusk where people have tons of high prim attachments
Tya Fallingbridge: if yu have a good card then you are gonna run great
Torley Linden: Jadem: I believe Jake Linden worked on that, you can let him know you enjoy it!
Tya Fallingbridge: if not , well you are not going to
Torley Linden: Understanding and education definitely matter... it's important to have an overall well-balanced system (depending on your needs).
Zorin Frobozz: I just want my atmospheric shaders under Leopard
Patchouli Woollahra: It must be working, I'm seeing a demonic Jeremy Linden,a feline Watermelon Torley Kity, a Buddhist Zen Linden, a Kirby sunbather and a airship the size of most ad-spam plots on the mainland.
Torley Linden: HAHAHA Patch.
Torley Linden: What a crazy picture.
Zorin Frobozz: It looks so good and actually works pertty well in areas without too many avatars.. but if there's lots of avatars in any area... fps drops to sub-1
Patchouli Woollahra: SPF is good only if you're sunbathing.
Jewels Parks: Why is sl so unstable
Torley Linden: Zorin, have you been trying Impostors?
Torley Linden: Jewels, more details please?
Zorin Frobozz: Yeah....
FlipperPA Peregrine: That's a really good point, Tya; I was speaking at a conference over the weekend, and one guy during the Q&A kept asking about lag. We asked him about his video card... he indignantly insisted, "OH, it can't be my video card... its a new system! But I don't know what kind of video card I have. But that's CAN'T be the problem..."
Zorin Frobozz: doesn't make much of a diff
Patchouli Woollahra: Jewels: the net is inherently unstable.
Torley Linden: Zorin: Even with Avatars Mesh Detail all the way to the left?
Zorin Frobozz: Okay.. right now 10fps with basic and atmospheric shaders off...
Patchouli Woollahra: every other technology I've worked with is coding on a wing and a prayer.
Torley Linden: Haha Flip I recall some of your dear tech tales!
Zorin Frobozz: Turning on basic brings me down to 7.4
Tya Fallingbridge: yeah my card in a few months old my pc is two years old and on the normal client i can clock up to 71 fps
Jewels Parks: So we just gotta deal with it huh ?
Tya Fallingbridge: average at 40
FlipperPA Peregrine: I'm getting 25 fps on a laptop with everything up on ultra :)
Tya Fallingbridge: jewels there is a video that flipper can link you to
FlipperPA Peregrine: Torley: hehehehe, yeah, it is always fun. This past weekend was Philcon, and we did a Second Life portion again - a fun time. :)
Tya Fallingbridge: its about how the data transfers to all the servers
Jewels Parks: ok would be great
Tya Fallingbridge: it will help you understand why things happen :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: The Mono video does give hope for the future, I'll dig up the link :)
Chain Bellios: WHAT THE HELL IS THIS PLACE
Zorin Frobozz: That does speed it up, but... the old client did well with that turned all the way up.
Tya Fallingbridge: its an hour long lol
Torley Linden: Some day we'll look back and laugh at how primitive things were in comparison. But, how do we get there? Progress is being made today.
Zorin Frobozz: I shouldn't have to expeience crappy looking avatars to have decent framerates on Leopard
Torley Linden: OH MY FREAKIN' GOODNESS CHAIN, A WARM WELCOME TO OUR WINDLIGHT OFFICE HOURS IN BRAMPTON!
Patchouli Woollahra: Chain: this is a Linden Office Hour concentrating on the (ab)use of the recent Windlight RC viewers and bugfixing on it.
Torley Linden: Chain, are you familiar with WindLight? :D I can give you an introduction to it like an infomercial-person if you'd like!
Tya Fallingbridge: i think new users do not really understand how sl just bloomed and exploded over night and how much progress and work has gone into it
Bjerkel Eerie: I's sorry late to the meeting so teh Q has probably been covered, Windlight loaded first time fine, on my dual core MACBOOK, now it locks up on long in
Patchouli Woollahra: if you have Windlight, you can properly simulate hell by using the "Sheer Surreality" sky preset and "Second Plague" Water preset in the Environment Editor.
Torley Linden: Oh thanks Patch! But one thing -- WindLight isn't RC yet, it's First Look, which is different (e.g., further away from being considered stable).
Torley Linden: Hahaha they are such a nutty pair!
Saquan Jinn: Getsu
Patchouli Woollahra: I KNOW it's Beta software. but I'm still using it.
Torley Linden: Bjerkel: Hmmm did you try deleting your settings file? Or uninstalling and reinstalling?
Patchouli Woollahra: and for what it's worth, I still think it's a shame LL Brighton couldn't collar Pendulum into allowing "Hold Your Colors" for a Windlight video.
Bjerkel Eerie: yes I re installed 3 times
Zorin Frobozz: I still want to know why when I focus my camera on the steps of the stage, it moves to the benches.
Torley Linden: Bjerkel: Does the non-WindLight 1.18.5 RC run fine for you?
Torley Linden: Zorin, GOOD QUESTION! KNOWN BUG!
Torley Linden: Focusing on certain prims in linksets is WRONG.
Bjerkel Eerie: and took off my normal client
Zorin Frobozz: Ahh, got it.
Torley Linden: I noticed this too, Zorin, thank YOU for bringing it up.
Jamma Newt: Zorin, i remember that sort of camera behavior from earlier Render Dynamic Reflections and Render Glow under Debug Settings... looks like it's popped back into Windlight
Torley Linden: We had earlier camera focus issues I know Brad fixed...
Patchouli Woollahra: maybe the FL client is just refusing to accept the existence of what's on stage?
FlipperPA Peregrine: Sorry for the delay, got a call at work. For those interested in seeing a working demo of Mono from a while back, which shows just how much improvement we'll see within scripting running, click here: http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/4/1/94138e2a-d9dc-435a-9240-bcd985bf5bd7/Jim-Cory-SecondLife.wmv
FlipperPA Peregrine: If you download it, the final 15 minutes are an excellent demo. Sorry again for the delay and the off-topic :)
Patchouli Woollahra: we needs faster fibonaccis!
Tya Fallingbridge: its not off topic, it will give people an understand of how things work
Torley Linden: Hahah Patch, OMG PENDULUM RULEZ!
FlipperPA Peregrine: Exactly Patch :)
Torley Linden: Patch, have you heard PENDULUM'S GRANITE?
Patchouli Woollahra 's proposal for a Prime Number Pooping Monkey relies on Mono coming out.
Torley Linden: It is such a lush and bombastic piece of drum 'n' bass. Excellently composed.
Patchouli Woollahra: what can I say? I think it's a shame they left perth.
Torley Linden: Where are they at now? :O
Patchouli Woollahra: Brighton primarily, I believe.
Torley Linden: Drum 'n' bass was the soundtrack for many of my WindLight snapshots... it's so energy-filled.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Man, I could just stare at this water all day long.
Tya Fallingbridge: i did for an hour lol
Patchouli Woollahra: even with "Second Plague" enabled?
FlipperPA Peregrine: I'm glad I finally got the drivers figured, heh.
Tya Fallingbridge: time well spent
Torley Linden: Yeah, I like Second Plague, I believe Zen did that preset...
Torley Linden: I like to call it "Moses Time".
Zen Linden: :)
Torley Linden: Haha the water is Liquid Blingy!
Patchouli Woollahra: all we need is Red Linden walking out of it with a squid tentacle ponytail and we can have another Eric Linden Machinima.
Jamma Newt: Zen did that? and here everyone has been blaming Torley, hee hee
Torley Linden: LOL Jamma they ought not to! I did "Sheer Surreality" which was lovingly included tho...
Torley Linden: so they can blame me for that.
Torley Linden: ;)
Zorin Frobozz: I'll bbl... phone call.
Patchouli Woollahra: Oh, and visual stink fume emitters on a freebie white wolf avatar.
Jewels Parks: Whats with the camera control is windlight also causeing this ?
Tya Fallingbridge: did you do Sheer Surreality Torley?
Torley Linden: Jewels, can you please be more specific?
Patchouli Woollahra: she just said she did.
Torley Linden: Yes Tya.
Tya Fallingbridge: lol I knew it!
Torley Linden: Hahaha. I deliberately went with blue + orange instead of green + pink...
Torley Linden: I have more range than that.
Tya Fallingbridge: has your name all over it
Torley Linden: Hahaha. I was making that one while listening to Tangerine Dream.
Patchouli Woollahra: has anyone told Ben Linden there's a fire tornado on his OI sign patch?
FlipperPA Peregrine: I love Christopher Franke :)
Torley Linden: Anyone here familiar with Koyaansqatsi?
Jamma Newt: you may have range, but we'd recognize your saturation levels anywhere, T
Zen Linden: alright phillip glass!
Patchouli Woollahra spoke to Phillip Glass last weekend.
Torley Linden: Jamma: Haha but I also do desat stuff, I'm tricky that way.
Torley Linden: Booyeah Philip Glass!
Patchouli Woollahra: nice guy.
Torley Linden: Yeah I like Franke's soundtrack for Babylon 5.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Torley: we own it on DVD :)
Torley Linden: NICE, Flip.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Babylon 5 = best show EVAR :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Franke = Tangerine Dream :)
Tya Fallingbridge: if we want to change our water bump, are you going to let us know the size and format? i have been unable to find anything on it
Torley Linden: There was a time when I did a whole set of black & white Ansel Adams WindLight stuff.
Tya Fallingbridge: oh i would love to see that torley
Jamma Newt: ooh yes, great question Tya.
Torley Linden: Tya, you can put any texture pretty much as a normal map. :) But, NVIDIA has a special Photoshop plugin to make normal maps.
FlipperPA Peregrine: I hit Black Swan before here - hard to think it could look any better, but yes, it does :)
Tya Fallingbridge: really?
Tya Fallingbridge: hmm
Torley Linden: Yes Tya, how about trying this: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html
Torley Linden: :)
Tya Fallingbridge: make tya water to match tya sky lol
Patchouli Woollahra: Torley: I've gotten some pretty trippy effects with it.
Torley Linden: You can also manually hack the cloud texture by replacing a JPG...
Torley Linden: I turned it into smiley faces and we were crackin' up at a meeting.
Patchouli Woollahra gave you Blue Fennec NormalMapped Water.
Torley Linden: Oh, very fun Patch. Blue as you!
Tya Fallingbridge: my second life is pink blue purple and very plenty of stars :)
Torley Linden: *looks at picture*
Torley Linden: Hee hee Tya, do you have screenshots? I sure wanna see that.
Tya Fallingbridge: oh yeah
Torley Linden: We're really, REALLY happy to see all the awesomeness Residents have done with WindLight so far.
Tya Fallingbridge: let me find it .
Brad Linden: Torley: I think it has to be a .tga now
Tya Fallingbridge: its called snapshot
Tya Fallingbridge: lol
Patchouli Woollahra: Windlight is open to (ab)use, which is great.
Torley Linden: Oh does it Brad? Ack... thanks for the correction!
Patchouli Woollahra: the use is nice, but the Abuse is awesum.
Brad Linden: np
Torley Linden: If you upload it to a web gallery send us the link...
Torley Linden: we've been keeping our eyes on Flickr, Snapzilla, etc.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Any ETA on Windlight going mainstream? Q1/Q2 timeframe? There are still a lot of compatibility issues
Jamma Newt: and which .tga would that be, Brad?
Tya Fallingbridge gave you Snapshot : Pixel Mode : Schmooze : Club Pi, Pixel Dreams (5, 1.
FlipperPA Peregrine: If you think "upgrade your drivers" was a mantra before, just wait, heh :)
Torley Linden: WOW Tya, that's NICE! You should show this off more, it's got a bubblegum flavor to it.
Patchouli Woollahra: I also checked to make sure that the joystick cam was fixed by Runitai.
Patchouli Woollahra: I did a Svarga flythrough and posted on Youtube.
Tya Fallingbridge: its pretty :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Svarga rocks :)
Torley Linden: Tya, that is great artistry. Wow, what a nice sky.
Brad Linden: c:\Program Files\SecondLifeWindLight\app_settings\windlight\clouds2.tga
Jamma Newt: ty, Brad :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Avatar skin still looks kinda creepy with Windlight, hehehehe
Brad Linden: np
Tya Fallingbridge gave you Snapshot : Pixel Mode : Schmooze : Club Pi, Pixel Dreams (25,.
Tya Fallingbridge: there is another one
FlipperPA Peregrine: My avatar looks like it desperately needs a shower
Patchouli Woollahra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69XITYN_9zw
FlipperPA Peregrine: Like my RL self
Torley Linden: Cool beans. *puts it up on the board*
Torley Linden: LOL Flip.
FlipperPA Peregrine: :)
Jamma Newt: ahhhhh yes, bubblegum indeed! very pretty, Tya
Torley Linden: Yeah, I've found WindLight on avatars really depends on specific settings... and sometimes fine-tuning with personal lights too, but overall we hope for a good default day cycle.
Zen Linden: I have on my todo list to add the ability to edit the cloud texture, it's just low priority right now.
Torley Linden: Pastrami did soooo much tweaking on that front...
Patchouli Woollahra: news flash: 10% of people will always look like they walked out of a pipe explosion at the Prim Refining Station.
Tya Fallingbridge: lol
Patchouli Woollahra: And not the same 10% of people all the time either.
Jamma Newt: lol(R)!
Torley Linden: Patch, ever considered doing standup comedy?
Torley Linden: I think you have a gift of gab there, har har.
Patchouli Woollahra: I've admitted to doing some in the past.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Patch might just be the new Siggy
Patchouli Woollahra: it's not my key concentration atm. I've been discussing with Aric Linden about joining the QA team and copping the same amount of fire.
Torley Linden: QA Comedy King?
Pastrami Linden: hey guys- we have to wrap up the office hours now
Hervy Rikichi: well, I think I know the baseline NVidia card is a 7600. my 7400 laptop barely manages 7-8 fps in windlight in an empty sim.
Jamma Newt: oh hey! i wanna see Qarl Linden's fix for lossless sculpt maps in the next WL-RC. any chance of that making it in?
FlipperPA Peregrine: Hervy, is that on Ultra?
Hervy Rikichi: no, high.
Patchouli Woollahra wants 128x128 texture support for Sculpties.
Tya Fallingbridge: oh yes i second that one
Torley Linden: Jamma hmmm I'm not sure of that offhand, but I can ask Qarl.
Brad Linden: Yeah, I'm pretty sure Qarl's bugfix is in the next build
Hervy Rikichi: if you saw the prim vomit, THAT happened on Ultra :)
Torley Linden: Oh good to know... thx Brad.
Torley Linden: "Prim vomit", ha, such colorful terms.
Brad Linden: lemme double check
Jeremy Linden flies off to see where those giant hairballs were coming from.
Jamma Newt: that would be great. i know he had thought it would make it into 1.18.5 but it didn't
Hervy Rikichi: my 7600 GT desktop manages around 20 (around 10 in Luskwood)
Torley Linden: We, Team WindLight, would like to thank each and all of you for coming to our Office Hour today!
Patchouli Woollahra still trying to find a name list of Lindens involved in Windlight.
Pastrami Linden: alright, take care all!
Tya Fallingbridge: ty for opening up your office and answering questions for us :)
Patchouli Woollahra: baibai Pastrami!
Jamma Newt: THANKS!
Hervy Rikichi: Tornley: Vertex Vomit actually. Lemme put up the pic again
Zen Linden: later y'all
Jadem Gruppman: Have a good one
Patchouli Woollahra: hrm...
Bjerkel Eerie: still no suggestion for my macbook poblem?
Brad Linden: VWR-2920 was the sculptie bugfix I was thinking of
Patchouli Woollahra: I haven't seen the fly that flew into Torley's hairstyle come back out all this time. I wonder why.
FlipperPA Peregrine: Take care folks, great work. :)
Torley Linden: Patch: Ummm give me a moment and I'll type a list, this may NOT be 100% complete.
Patchouli Woollahra: Bjerkel: Get a Wintel machine.
Patchouli Woollahra: Best to Wiki it? :D
01 Hifeng: (please don't smash my head with this. thanks in advance.)
Jamma Newt: Brad, i think there was another, let me see if i can dig it up quickly
Hervy Rikichi: immediately after this loaded in, it crashed. I reset the settings lower and it hasn't returned
Bjerkel Eerie: Send teh check patch
Torley Linden: Patch: Good idea, I'll add it to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight
Patchouli Woollahra wants to put it in a silly Amiga-style spinner and film a Windlight machinima in.
Torley Linden: We keep updating that page, and these Office Hour transcripts will be posted there!
Torley Linden: So stay tuned... =o)
Tya Fallingbridge: awesome work :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Okay, that's crazy
Torley Linden: Thanks for coming and hmmm... this Thurs. is a holiday so it looks like we won't be having an Office Hour then?
Tya Fallingbridge: i am off :) bye everyone :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: I just noticed particles get reflected too
FlipperPA Peregrine: That's awesome
FlipperPA Peregrine: hugs Tya!
Tya Fallingbridge: (hugs)
Pastrami Linden: Torley, likely not
FlipperPA Peregrine: Back to work with me as well :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Take care folks
Patchouli Woollahra: FlipperPA on really high settings, the only thing that doesn't get reflected is members of the vampire community in Transylvania.
Torley Linden: Okeydoke Pastrami, jusssst checkin'.
FlipperPA Peregrine: PAtch: hahahahaha ;-)
FlipperPA Peregrine: I was an original member of Vampire Empire back in 2003 :)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Wow, that was long ago
FlipperPA Peregrine: Funny you mention Obs' crew though :)
Patchouli Woollahra: but then, I think they saw this water modelling upgrade coming. none of the water in there is near enough to cause avatar reflections.
FlipperPA Peregrine: ;-)
FlipperPA Peregrine: Alrighty, catch you all soon! :) Hugs
Brad Linden: ok, I gotta go, If you find Qarl's bug, Jamma, IM me and I can look into it
Patchouli Woollahra: FlipperPA: Old enough to be your grandma, young enough to be your kid. That's been one of my descriptives xD.
Patchouli Woollahra: BTW, Flipper, are you a Snapzilla admin? IM
Bjerkel Eerie: do sun tracking devices work in windlight?
FlipperPA Peregrine: :)
Brad Linden: later all!
Jamma Newt: gotcha! yeah, it's still trying to load, but Qarl knows which ones anyway, we keep pestering him. Thanks!
Brad Linden: ok, I can talk to qarl
Hervy Rikichi: <--90% drama free. :)
Patchouli Woollahra: Suntracker LSL scripts are reliant on LSL provided sun locations from the server they're run in.
Torley Linden: Bye bye all!
Torley Linden: Have a lovely, WindLighted day...
Torley Linden: see ya soon!