Bug triage/2008-03-31/Transcript

* [12:10] JayR Cela: when is H4 rollout set to begin ????
* [12:10] Aric Linden: starting today JayR
* [12:11] Soft Linden: 
* [12:11] Squirrel Wood: Definitely outlindened today :p
* [12:11] Aric Linden: first up is vwr-5299
* [12:11] JayR Cela: :_))))) kool / looking forward to it
* [12:12] Squirrel Wood: short: buy group owned land to crash
* [12:12] Soft Linden: I experienced this a few times with 1.19.1.1. I haven't seen it since, but don't buy land everyday either...
* [12:12] Aric Linden: we looked at this last week and fredy has updated
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:12] Aric Linden: let's take it in this week and see if we can repro; please assign it to me
* [12:12] JayR Cela: I have been using the Dazzle client and am very happy with it so far
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:13] Soft Linden: All of them mention it's group-owned land, and that's what I was dealing with as well.
* [12:13] Soft Linden: Per the description, the debugger should point right to it if it's still crashing. Ya, would take that in.
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:13] Aric Linden: agrees with soft
* [12:14] Aric Linden: vwr-5861
* [12:14] Soft Linden: If you dont' see it, I'd follow up asking what the land was. It's possible there's a very long description, title, etc.
* [12:14] Asterion Coen: /hello folks :)
* [12:14] Aric Linden: Hi Asterion
* [12:14] Soft Linden: This can go right to the render guys. Just another card missing/misranked in the hardware db
* [12:14] Aric Linden: pull up a chair
* [12:14] Cogsworth Linden: Hi Asterion
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: which linden aric?
* [12:15] Aric Linden: pastrami alexa
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:15] Aric Linden: i'll ping him about the big brother comment - it's funny but it probably is a real concern for some residents
* [12:16] Aric Linden: vwr-456- is up next
* [12:16] Soft Linden: This would be won't finish. We can't maintain two complete UIs. If there are specific things he wants as options, he should take those up with RX.
* [12:16] Aric Linden: love harleen for first line triage
* [12:17] Harleen Gretzky: :)
* [12:17] Aric Linden: Let's take the patch and assign the whole mess to RX
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: +1
* [12:17] Aric Linden: I don't want to try and figure this out
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:17] JayR Cela: I like the Dazzle interface / I feel it should be an option
* [12:17] Aric Linden: nods at JayR
* [12:17] Harleen Gretzky: It will be standard eventually
* [12:17] Squirrel Wood: Isn't there a costomizable/skinnable interface in the works?
* [12:18] Aric Linden: the thing is, JayR that it becomes a whole lot of stuff to maintain and test
* [12:18] Squirrel Wood: and Dazzle is just a first step towards that?
* [12:18] Harleen Gretzky: Dazzle is the first step towards that
* [12:18] Aric Linden: and small regressions will happen repeatedly. eventually those regressions will become ongoing niggling issues for everyone
* [12:19] JayR Cela: hmmm / if you take a WInAmp approach / offer it as an optional skin interface / should that not releive the problem
* [12:19] JayR Cela: afterall it is just a skin
* [12:19] Aric Linden: JayR - sure, when we get our skinning code fully, um, fleshed out
* [12:19] Aric Linden: slaps his knee
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: booooo
* [12:19] JayR Cela: ok :_)
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: bad pun
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: no sarts for you!
* [12:20] Aric Linden: cries
* [12:20] Harleen Gretzky: lol
* [12:20] Squirrel Wood: hehe
* [12:21] Aric Linden: so with regard to 5929, I think we should take it in and pass it to Steve for review
* [12:21] Soft Linden: 5929 I would give to Ramzi.
* [12:21] Aric Linden: and make Ramzi a watcher
* [12:21] Soft Linden: Ramzi has already done work on these missing names.
* [12:21] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:21] Aric Linden: right, but i thought steve might want to review the patch
* [12:21] Soft Linden: Okay
* [12:21] Aric Linden: i'm fine with it going straight to ramzi too
* [12:21] Aric Linden: either works
* [12:21] Aric Linden: if ramzi has a question, he can take it to steve
* [12:22] Soft Linden: I think Ramzi already put names on everything, but could look at the list to find any areas missed.
* [12:22] Aric Linden: nods
* [12:22] Aric Linden: cool
* [12:22] Soft Linden: but ya - same thing!
* [12:22] Aric Linden: let's go with softs plan
* [12:22] Aric Linden: is doing pennence for punning
* [12:23] Aric Linden: vwr-5717 is up
* [12:23] Cogsworth Linden: a punning saved is a punning earned
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: shakes her head
* [12:23] Soft Linden: This has a patch by Alissa. Alissa knows our Asian i18n code better than we do. :)
* [12:23] Aric Linden: nods a Soft
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: import to?
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Triage, would probably go to Shiny in the end.
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:24] Aric Linden: you know, alexa, the Legba admission protocol includes a punning test
* [12:24] Aric Linden: agrees with soft
* [12:24] Aric Linden: triage is good
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: oooh pass that on!
* [12:24] Aric Linden: vwr-5540
* [12:24] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm. Triage! Yummeh!
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: I want to be a leggo!
* [12:25] Cogsworth Linden: eggo my leggo
* [12:25] Asterion Coen: talking about lego (erm) can builders do some suggestions ? :)
* [12:25] Aric Linden: Asterion, sure thing
* [12:25] JayR Cela: I am a builder
* [12:26] Asterion Coen: it's about the twists in the build tool
* [12:26] JayR Cela: what do you want to know
* [12:26] Cogsworth Linden: is a primaholic
* [12:26] Asterion Coen: it use ti twist about width to another face
* [12:26] JayR Cela: the fact that SL is a phsudo 3d enviorment / half 2D & half 3D is a big problem
* [12:26] Asterion Coen: but that is not usefull at all about t=a flat prim
* [12:26] Asterion Coen: like a front boat
* [12:27] Squirrel Wood: can make Mono run extremely slow. Do I get a Sart for that? ^^
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: 1 gold sart for you!
* [12:27] Squirrel Wood: Yay!
* [12:27] Asterion Coen: not usr u understood it though
* [12:27] Asterion Coen: 
* [12:27] JayR Cela: the perspective viewing angle makes it difficult to actually construct things in a proper perspective
* [12:28] Aric Linden: whoa, guys, let's save it for the end of triage
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: guys can we sideline this until after the triage
* [12:28] Aric Linden: jinx
* [12:28] Asterion Coen: that's the kind a case some new twisted can be usefull (about front)
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: we have a list of bugs we need to review
* [12:28] Aric Linden: diet pepsi
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: and are still on 5540
* [12:28] Asterion Coen: oh ok
* [12:28] Asterion Coen: (im most a designer, userside) :)
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: smiles at Squirrel
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: do we want to import 5540 and have someone look at it?
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: much like 5717/
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: ?*
* [12:29] Aric Linden: yes
* [12:29] Soft Linden: It couldn't hurt if it points to bad translations. Not sure who takes it.
* [12:29] Aric Linden: nods
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: triage?
* [12:29] Aric Linden: or jean?
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:30] Aric Linden: vwr-5721 is up next
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: Selected / Sat Upon reports incorrectly and confuses prim count
* [12:30] Harleen Gretzky: This is a server issue since it happens on 1.18.5.3, 1.19.0.5 and 1.19.1 RCs, but appears worse since the last roliing restart. Though this region is not too bad, but most regions I have checked it is thousands of prims reported now.
* [12:30] Soft Linden: 5721 I've observed as well. I'll get a selected/sat credit on my parcel that doesn't go away.
* [12:31] Soft Linden: Sounds like triage?
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: ya
* [12:31] Aric Linden: yep
* [12:31] Squirrel Wood: Lex Neva - 19/Mar/08 09:59 PM Harleen was close; it's to keep track of which objects won't be returned by autoreturn. I've noticed that the figure seems arbitrarily inflated on my land as well. I suspect that sometimes the sim loses track of when objects are no longer sat on or selected.
* [12:31] Aric Linden: I was trying to read and comprehend fully
* [12:31] Aric Linden: is slightly dopey today
* [12:31] JayR Cela: Soft ??? if you leave your parcel / say fly off the land and fly back does the prim count not correct itself ??
* [12:31] Soft Linden: Yeah. From the note that it can be reset by selecting and deselecting every object on the parcel, looks like the server's losing track.
* [12:32] Soft Linden: If I leave and return it doesn't correct. I didn't try selecting everything as the one comment suggests.
* [12:32] Aric Linden: vwr-5786
* [12:32] JayR Cela: hmmmmmmm
* [12:32] Squirrel Wood: t appears as though the "Primitive on parcel" count is correct, it's just the way the counts are grouped that is incorrect ("Owned by parcel Owner" and "Set to Group") are low and "selected/sat upon" is high. And selecting all items on your land and closing edit will either lower or raise the "sel;ected sat upon" count, so that kluge fix doesn't always work. [ Show » 
* [12:33] Harleen Gretzky: Sometimes can be difficult to select everything, especially if things are say 700 meters apart
* [12:34] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps there is a flaw in the counting algorithm?
* [12:34] Squirrel Wood: the way it treats linked / nonlinked prims ?
* [12:35] JayR Cela: Squirrel I have experienced this with temp on rezz objects
* [12:35] Aric Linden: mayhaps, squirrel
* [12:35] Aric Linden: let's take it in and move to vwr-5786
* [12:36] Harleen Gretzky: This should probably a Web bug not viewer, but maybe a LindeX-knowledgeable Linden can try to explain it to the OP.
* [12:36] JayR Cela: and have seen differnt prim counts from day to day / but the varience is minimal
* [12:37] Soft Linden: It sure looks like a misunderstanding about exchange fees.
* [12:37] Aric Linden: I thought you did an OSSM job Harleen
* [12:37] Soft Linden: But LindeX issues are touchy, maybe let a community and a LindeX Linden decide what to do here.
* [12:38] Harleen Gretzky: me too, but the OP doesn't seem to understand me
* [12:38] Aric Linden: but I agree with soft - alexa, maybe assign to morpheus?
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:38] Aric Linden: or sue, with a request to explain
* [12:39] Aric Linden: vwr-1057 is next
* [12:40] Aric Linden: this should go to RX for sorting
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:40] Soft Linden: yeah.
* [12:40] Aric Linden: good bug
* [12:41] Aric Linden: svc-1057
* [12:41] Aric Linden: I wish i'd found that one
* [12:41] Squirrel Wood: Aww. And here I really loved the chats with my inventory :p
* [12:41] Soft Linden: Hello Goth Male Shirt!
* [12:42] Aric Linden: laughs
* [12:42] Harleen Gretzky: Any folder with Calling Cards will do this, but My Inventory should probably be ignored
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:42] Aric Linden: the problems really arise when people try to cyber their inventory
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: i'll remember that if it tries to talk to me
* [12:42] Aric Linden: it gets very confusing
* [12:42] Soft Linden: Hello Cybergoth Male Shirt?
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: To fix the bug you should actually make the inventory reply something funny :p
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: LMAO
* [12:43] JayR Cela: i have no problems with my inventory once it fully loads
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: that would rock!
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: like... tomorrow...
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: HAHAHHAHA
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: Will we see Woooooosh again on teleports? ^^
* [12:43] Asterion Coen: i maybe lucky (or dont take enough medicine) but my inv never tryed to talk to me
* [12:44] Cogsworth Linden: now feels rejected by his inventory
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: did you keep it clean and organized Asterion?
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: say nice things to it?
* [12:44] JayR Cela: but!!!!!!!!! getting the inventory to fully load after a clear cache usually means 1/2 a dozen reloggs and a force loading procedure / using search to find key vowells in the alphebit
* [12:44] Asterion Coen: alexa, i use to, when i got time :)
* [12:44] Aric Linden: take it to dinner once in a while
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: buy it flowers??
* [12:44] Soft Linden: Just don't tell it to get lost.
* [12:44] JayR Cela: A~E~I~O~U
* [12:44] Soft Linden: Yus.
* [12:44] JayR Cela: but once it is loaded is no real problem
* [12:45] Aric Linden: ok, time to move along to svc-1927
* [12:45] Cogsworth Linden: beware vowel language?
* [12:45] Alexa Linden: dies
* [12:45] Asterion Coen: but i sometime talk to my inv, especialy when it too long to find an objet i need in urgence :)
* [12:45] Asterion Coen: i wont tell o n here, what im saying to it
* [12:46] Aric Linden: i'll take svc-1927
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:46] Squirrel Wood: So that is the reason why the asset server has been misbehaving the past couple days!
* [12:46] Aric Linden: not enough dates
* [12:46] Squirrel Wood: Some really bad things that must have been which you have told your inventory :(
* [12:47] Aric Linden: vwr-5169
* [12:47] Aric Linden: heya patch
* [12:48] Squirrel Wood: This looks like an interesting issue
* [12:48] Patchouli Woollahra: oh hai :D
* [12:48] Soft Linden: Ouch, if true. It makes it look like a sim handoff started where there should be none.
* [12:48] Asterion Coen: hey pat ;)
* [12:48] Aric Linden: um, we can take this and pass it to triage
* [12:48] Aric Linden: vwr-1830
* [12:48] Patchouli Woollahra: let me guess, the server thinks you're about to fly off the sim, even if there's no sim to fly off to, and starts trying to handover to /dev/null?
* [12:49] Patchouli Woollahra: Yes, that would be bad.
* [12:49] Patchouli Woollahra: Then I think VWR-5169 isn't a VWR issue, but rather a Service issue.
* [12:49] JayR Cela: that would explain going off into oblivion half the time i cross a simm border
* [12:49] JayR Cela: that issue is getting old and needs to be resolved
* [12:50] Soft Linden: 1830 is too vague to act on still. It's basically one person with a lot of packet loss saying an 1.18.x viewer is laggy, and another saying a 1.19.0 viewer is laggy half a year later.
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: tabitha oxide - 21/Mar/08 12:34 PM Second Life 1.19.0 (5) Feb 28 2008 17:18:12 (Second Life Release) All Viewer actions are very delayed and laggy. World performance is horribly slow even at complete standstill across various regions in world.
* [12:51] Patchouli Woollahra: Not enough information on the hardware use.
* [12:51] Patchouli Woollahra: used*
* [12:51] Squirrel Wood: old hardware me would guess
* [12:52] JayR Cela: Squirrel I agree with you / the miss match of varios hardware is presenting a load problem
* [12:52] Patchouli Woollahra: not just old hardware. until recently, a lot of MacBooks came with Intel acceleration.
* [12:52] JayR Cela: the hand-off is latent
* [12:52] Aric Linden: I love rascal
* [12:52] Squirrel Wood: Inhell Lagcelleration?
* [12:52] Squirrel Wood: best performing lag eva!
* [12:53] Patchouli Woollahra: the latest Intel Onboards are bucking up.
* [12:53] Aric Linden: let's ask tabitha to tell us what platform and card etc she's running
* [12:53] Patchouli Woollahra: I would hope it's a MacIntel.
* [12:53] Aric Linden: yes, a macintel running .exes
* [12:53] Aric Linden: cuz they can you know
* [12:53] JayR Cela: we all know the Intel chipsets are doggs / so what can be done to anticipate the problem and prevent it / nothing / they are crappy chipsets
* [12:53] Patchouli Woollahra: The G4s and G5s are real basket cases. One wonders how they managed to decide that the X360 should have G5s.
* [12:54] Aric Linden: loves his G5
* [12:54] Patchouli Woollahra: G5s were abandoned by Apple partly because of a failure to minaturise.
* [12:55] Soft Linden: The powerpc chips are very cheap. Lots of cores versus a couple very fast ones gives a much better price/performance ratio when Intel compatibility isn't needed.
* [12:55] Squirrel Wood: RISC-y ^^^
* [12:55] Patchouli Woollahra: I'll keep that in mind the next time.
* [12:55] Soft Linden: And when you can assume devs are going to do the ugly painful work of heavy threading. Which you can't assume for desktop stuff.
* [12:55] Soft Linden: (yet)
* [12:56] Aric Linden: Asterion, you've now got the floor for your build discussion
* [12:56] Patchouli Woollahra: Alexa Linden scares the carrots out of me.
* [12:56] Alexa Linden: LMAO
* [12:56] Squirrel Wood: So hand 'em over ^^
* [12:56] Aric Linden: If motorola had been willing to keep pushing the speed on risc, mac wouldn't have gone over..
* [12:56] Soft Linden: VWR-5656 could go in, straight to Tofu, btw. Just checked and it's valid.
* [12:56] Aric Linden: thanks
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: was their a resolution on 1830?
* [12:57] Squirrel Wood: pokes Asterion with a sharp stick "Are you there?"
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: aside from asking tabitha?
* [12:57] Soft Linden: 1830 looks like needs-more-info to me
* [12:57] Aric Linden: no
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:57] Aric Linden: just more info
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Hardware in use, and whether the OP sees it with 1.19.x
* [12:58] Aric Linden: it's not a solvable problem yet, idon't think
* [12:58] Aric Linden: love soft for better language skills than mine
* [12:58] Soft Linden: hee
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: got it
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: thanks :)
* [12:58] Patchouli Woollahra: would also like to clarify type of connection, Aric.
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:58] Squirrel Wood: Have you bribed the asset server to keep working during peak concurrency time today yet? ^^
* [12:58] Patchouli Woollahra: we all know what most wifi solutions and satellite conns do to SL.
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: eep... sudden lighting change...
* [12:59] Patchouli Woollahra: Not all, just enough that I can't in good conscience recommend unwired SL unless you're sitting right on top of the access point, and that tends to introduce new problems.
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: the one thing that still needs fixing in windlight..
* [13:00] Patchouli Woollahra: Yes, why isn't the sun rising or falling in a cartoony manner to match?
* [13:00] Aric Linden: pastrami?
* [13:00] Alexa Linden: I want sound effects when it hits the water please
* [13:00] Alexa Linden: maybe a sizzle
* [13:00] Squirrel Wood: hehe
* [13:00] Harleen Gretzky: lol
* [13:01] Patchouli Woollahra: Now that's just ridiculous, Alexa. <sarcasm/.
* [13:01] Aric Linden: I want that dee dah dah dah dah dah music to play ambiently for all sunrises in SL
* [13:01] Alexa Linden: you have a better sound in mind?
* [13:01] Patchouli Woollahra: Hippo cry.
* [13:01] Cogsworth Linden: wants to travel to the edge of the grid to see the water falling off
* [13:01] Alexa Linden: oooh
* [13:02] Patchouli Woollahra: and look at the Great Hippo Atuin?
* [13:02] Cogsworth Linden: The great Turtle
* [13:02] Squirrel Wood: baby face and sounds for the sun! Just like in teletubby land! :p
* [13:02] Patchouli Woollahra: Sacrilege! Agni is borne on the back of a turtle!
* [13:02] Alexa Linden: eeeeewww! EBOL!!
* [13:02] Squirrel Wood: grins
* [13:03] Patchouli Woollahra: Squirrel: we kinda missed someone's face in the sun this year for Martin Luther King Day.
* [13:03] Cogsworth Linden: well, 4 elephants, on top of the turtle