Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.05.18

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.05.15	Next 2012.05.22
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Ardy Lay 	Ashiri Sands
Baker Linden 	Dahlia Trimble	Draconis Neurocam
DrFran Babcock	Frans Charming	Jonathan Yap
Nalates Urriah	Rex Cronon 	Vincent Nacon
Whirly Fizzle 	xstorm Radek 	
== Transcript ==
[16:00] Ardy Lay: Nice entrance, Andrew. ;-)
[16:00] Baker Linden: Thanks Jonathan, You'll also be happy then to know I fixed another issue you talked about last meeting. It's not live yet, though.
[16:00] Andrew Linden: thx
[16:01] Baker Linden: the self-mute issue
[16:01] Jonathan Yap: oh, very nice!
[16:01] Ardy Lay: Baker, I have had two residents stuck in my block list for a while now.
[16:01] Vincent Nacon: like he's gonna fix that right now
[16:02] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:02] Ardy Lay: I was pertty much told "Hope you don't need to talk to them."
[16:02] Andrew Linden: Yes, everybody please welcom Baker Linden.
[16:02] Andrew Linden: He's a new C++ developer on the server-side.
[16:02] Vincent Nacon: have a seat, Baker
[16:02] Baker Linden: lol. Is there a JIRA for that somewhere?
[16:02] Ardy Lay: Sure is. I'll dig it up.
[16:02] Andrew Linden: and has been fixing bugs for a few weeks now.
[16:02] Jonathan Yap: Ardy, I wonder if the auto-unmute function would help in that case (probably not)
[16:02] Nalates Urriah: A new guy... and we have to be nice again I suppose... Hi Baker!
[16:02] Vincent Nacon: Simon's around or is he on vacation again?
[16:03] Baker Linden: it'll only auto-unmute if you ended up muting yourself
[16:03] Andrew Linden: So, if you have any suggestions for bugs you think Baker should take a swing at, please bring them up.
[16:03] Jonathan Yap: Baker, there is a function in the viewer that auto-unmutes other people under certain circumstances
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Simon is out today.
[16:03] Baker Linden: I have no idea
[16:03] Baker Linden: I haven't been in the viewer much
[16:03] Andrew Linden: And I'll be out all next week.
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: so next week is canceled?
[16:04] Andrew Linden: No, next week should still be happening.
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: any news today?
[16:04] Andrew Linden: Simon should be around. I'll send him an email to make sure he knows I'll be out.
[16:04] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: heya Rex
[16:05] Rex Cronon: hi vincent
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Baker has more news than I do.
[16:05] Baker Linden: I suppose. I have a list of fixes I've made for... whenever they get tested and released :)
[16:05] Andrew Linden: I've been cleaning up some pathfinding stuff, in particular how to and when to compute the navmesh for surfaces under the water table.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Baker, go ahead and list the jira numbers, if you remember them.
[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7917 (self-muting) is no longer possible, and the check is done sim-side for older viewers
[16:06] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7917
[#SVC-7917] Please automatically unmute avatars who have muted themselves, and prevent this from occuring server-side.
[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7760
[16:06] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7760
[#SVC-7760] Large object instant messages can corrupt returned object location URL making it impossible to determine the object's location.
[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7793
[16:06] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7793
[#SVC-7793] Scripted agents can't abandon land on private estates
[16:06] Baker Linden: SVC-7525
[16:06] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7525
[#SVC-7525] Selected objects move when a new keyframe motion is started
[16:07] Andrew Linden: These are all going into a maintenance project, but it is probably another week or two before we'll bundle it up for QA in preparation for RC.
[16:08] Baker Linden: These probably won't be out for the next maintenance project
[16:08] Ardy Lay: Baker, the one I was asking about: VWR-27907 moved to EXP-1859 moced to MAINT-547
[16:08] Baker Linden: we have a lot of fixes already for the QA guys on that one
[16:08] Vincent Nacon: about SVC-7525, how is that fixed?
[16:08] Vincent Nacon: the setframedmotion
[16:08] Ardy Lay: It's now hidden from me.
[16:09] Baker Linden: I just added some other checks sim-side to see if the object should freeze when it's selected.
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: and what about its motion's time?
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: is that frozen too?
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: or in a way... paused?
[16:10] Baker Linden: Yeah. It stops the animation from happening.
[16:10] Baker Linden: it's basically in a paused state so you can move it around with the manipulators and such
[16:10] Vincent Nacon: and does that update its position to resume in its new position?
[16:11] Baker Linden: It should.
[16:11] Jonathan Yap: What happens if a non-owner selects it?
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: because I recall it would snap back to its orignal position when trying to move it
[16:11] Baker Linden: yeah, I fixed that
[16:11] Baker Linden: I was getting annoyed by that
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: muhaha! ok good
[16:11] Ardy Lay: Hehe
[16:11] Frans Charming: Nice
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: and good question Jonathan
[16:12] Baker Linden: Jonathan, I'm not sure what happens, honestly. I'm pretty sure it won't
[16:12] Jonathan Yap: In the past we have had trouble from people selecting things and stopping them
[16:12] Baker Linden: it should only freeze when an owner selects it
[16:12] Vincent Nacon: not even sure if they should or shouldn't able to stop them
[16:12] Baker Linden: or when the owner selects it. I'm still getting used to how things work
[16:13] Andrew Linden: ... or if you are sitting on it then you can select and freeze
[16:13] Ardy Lay: Owner of object, seated on object, owner of land object is over?
[16:13] Vincent Nacon: I'm sure this will come back up again about either they should able to stop it or not, because greifers could abuse it
[16:14] Andrew Linden: Hrm... good question. Lemme check that "object is on your land" thing...
[16:14] Baker Linden: Yeah. I fixed it while (hopefully) retaining the existing functionality
[16:15] Andrew Linden: Yeah, it looks like EstateManagers can select and freeze objects in the region
[16:15] Andrew Linden: and parcel owners can select and freeze objects on their parcel
[16:15] Andrew Linden: er... land owners
[16:16] Ardy Lay: Thanks
[16:16] Andrew Linden: Ok, so Baker is looking for what to fix next.
[16:16] Andrew Linden: Anyone have some suggestions?
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: not new features
[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: if only he worked on the viewer
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: right?
[16:16] Frans Charming: lol
[16:16] Ardy Lay: Baker, the one I was asking about: VWR-27907 moved to EXP-1859 moced to MAINT-547
[16:16] Baker Linden: Probably not anything new, Vincent
[16:17] Nalates Urriah: Appearance as XML?
[16:17] Andrew Linden: Feature ideas are not completely off limits.
[16:17] Baker Linden: oh right, let me take a look at that
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: yeah, hmm
[16:17] Andrew Linden: but small easy features
[16:17] Baker Linden: I mean, I'd like suggestions on future ideas, definitely
[16:17] Nalates Urriah: I'll find JIRA #
[16:17] Rex Cronon: i think i have one:) fix it so that people can be killed when sitting in damage enables sims:)
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: small easy? ... but but..
[16:17] Rex Cronon: enabled*
[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: are these limited to the server baker?
[16:17] Draconis Neurocam: the things to fix?
[16:18] Jonathan Yap: I have one, currently filed as vwr-28027 (which might need some rewording to make clear what is needed). Basically there are 2 ways names can be serached for in the People Chooser and they return different results. I think Oz sent an email around about this the other day.
[16:18] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28027
[#VWR-28027] an attempt to ban an FAILED due to SL's FAILURE to link to avatar name
[16:18] Vincent Nacon: I think there are more thing to update than fix minor bug
[16:18] Andrew Linden: For the most part Draconis, yes server-side.
[16:18] Vincent Nacon: but yeah, I'll think of something
[16:19] Baker Linden: Ardy, I'll take a look at that next week. Seems similar to the self-mute problem
[16:19] Ardy Lay: Thanks!
[16:19] Nalates Urriah: JIRa is being funky...
[16:19] Ardy Lay: I have another one that is land related that got batted around for a while then lost in a storm drain if you interested.
[16:20] Vincent Nacon: funky? time to bring in the disco ball and hit it!
[16:20] Baker Linden: Draconis, I'd be happy to look at most anything, but I'm still getting used to the codebase, so I'd prefer to stay in the sim for now.
[16:20] Nalates Urriah: VWR-23983
[16:20] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23983
[#VWR-23983] "Appearance to XML" not creating a XML file on my computer
[16:21] Vincent Nacon: use Firestorm
[16:21] Baker Linden: y'all sure like viewer bugs :P
[16:21] Ardy Lay: SCR-133 is VWR-23393, somebody cloned it.
[16:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-133
[#SCR-133] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[16:21] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23393
[#VWR-23393] Viewer reports script info for the wrong parcel, in some cases
[16:21] Jonathan Yap: My bug was only mislabeled, it's really a server issue
[16:23] Andrew Linden: Right, VWR-28027 is definitely fixable on the server-side, but it is a design problem with the avatar name-picker UI system
[16:23] Baker Linden: ahh yes, I see it. I'll see what I can do with that as well.
[16:23] Baker Linden: yeah
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: I think I got one for ya
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: not sure if it's viewer or server
[16:23] Andrew Linden: the name picker will not include people who have been suspended from SL
[16:23] Andrew Linden: but in some cases you definitely want to be able to pick them
[16:23] DrFran Babcock: oooh
[16:24] Ardy Lay: I suppose that stops the inflow of abuse reports.
[16:24] Andrew Linden: such as when trying to delete all their stuff in your region/land
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: but when using sit-teleporter to move over 1000m in the same sim, your avatar would end up in 0,0,0 corner of the sim for short moment.
[16:24] Ashiri Sands: using posjump?
[16:25] Ardy Lay: Those things need to go away.
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: you could say that, yes but even with the new changes
[16:25] Rex Cronon: can't their profiles be still shown but have big banner that says "banned"?
[16:25] Andrew Linden: yeah I'm not sure about that one either Vincent. If I had to guess I'd say it was viewer, but it might be a viewer-server misunderstanding
[16:25] Ardy Lay: AH, still happens with the new function? Shucks
[16:25] Draconis Neurocam: that doesnt happen if people use llsetregionpos to my knowledge
[16:25] Ashiri Sands: old hacks can be trouble
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: yeah I think it has to do with server sending its data packet too fast
[16:26] Frans Charming: I will have to try that out Draconis, thanls for mentioning it.
[16:26] Andrew Linden: in theory yes Rex, we could show suspended accounts in search
[16:26] Andrew Linden: I don't remember (and I wonder if anyone around still remembers) why that search filter was made
[16:27] Rex Cronon: u could even makes somthing like a "wall of shame" that show who did what...
[16:27] Andrew Linden: it should be revisited, I think
[16:27] Ardy Lay: Sometime search just fails to list accounts that are not suspended.
[16:27] Ardy Lay: So it's kinda a guessing game when thathappens.
[16:27] Jonathan Yap: Ardy, do you mean in the People Chooser (not the web page)
[16:27] Andrew Linden: I wonder if the server even knows the context in wich the name pick request comes through (for ban, script cleanup, or add to estate lists)
[16:28] Andrew Linden: I doubt it, actually.
[16:28] Ardy Lay: I mean that big ugly mess that pops up when I hit control F.
[16:28] xstorm Radek: search is having problems i can say yes it has that problem too
[16:28] Ardy Lay: THat's not going to be an Engine Room issue though.
[16:28] Andrew Linden: Well, actually I'm talking about the name-picker that shows up when you want to add someone to your parcel access list, for example.
[16:29] Andrew Linden: I is a general purpose tool used in several places in the UI
[16:29] Andrew Linden: s/^I /It/
[16:29] Ardy Lay: Land access list editr uses it, I think.
[16:29] Ardy Lay: editor
[16:29] Ardy Lay: And the AR tool
[16:29] Andrew Linden: right
[16:29] xstorm Radek: oh i know that then the estate system and god mode will have the same problem if thats true
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] xstorm Radek: has simon been removed ?
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: muhaha! no
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: he's on vacation again
[16:30] xstorm Radek: oh ok
[16:30] Ardy Lay: Hmm.... I always assumed that suspended accounts were not listed to prevent abuse reports from being filed against them.
[16:30] Andrew Linden: No, Simon is on vacation. Taking a long weekend.
[16:31] xstorm Radek: lucky man
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Oh right, Simon usually makes a pilgrimage to the Maker Faire. He must be there already.
[16:31] Andrew Linden: It is happening at the San Mateo Fairgrounds this weekend.
[16:31] xstorm Radek: oh befor i forget that user look up may be in some way part of the stuck avatar system again
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: only if I lived there... sigh...
[16:32] DrFran Babcock: yes, living on SL time might be nice
[16:32] Andrew Linden: "stuck avatar system"?
[16:32] Ardy Lay: Hehe
[16:32] xstorm Radek: yes peoples avatars stuck at log off but not logging all the way out
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: ah
[16:33] xstorm Radek: makes phantom avatars so they can not log back in
[16:33] Ardy Lay: It has evolved from a bug to a documented system. ;-)
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: haven't thought it affected search that way too
[16:33] Ardy Lay: I haven't had that heppen to me in a looong time.
[16:33] xstorm Radek: i had to do cleanup of them to day last time was 4 years back
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: it just seem kinda ignore any request done the said avatar
[16:34] Andrew Linden: So, is that bug still happening?
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: only way to deal with it was to restart the sim
[16:34] xstorm Radek: yes started again
[16:34] Andrew Linden: ah hrm
[16:34] Draconis Neurocam: is there a server side reason why when a prim is selected the parcel boundry highlights, out of curiousity
[16:34] Andrew Linden: No Draconis, that is a viewer bug or quirk.
[16:35] Draconis Neurocam: ah alright
[16:35] xstorm Radek: had to bug gteam for avatar bump
[16:35] Jonathan Yap: It is claimed to be a feature, so you do not put things outside of your parcel
[16:35] Andrew Linden: Well, the stuck avatar problem is probably a good mystery for Baker to investigate.
[16:35] xstorm Radek: im still thinking its a database bug that hangs it in some way
[16:36] Andrew Linden: So if anyone here has it happen to them they could try pinging Backer directly.
[16:36] Andrew Linden: No Xstorm, I don't think it is a database problem. It feels like a simulator problem.
[16:36] Baker Linden: Do we have a Jira for that?
[16:36] xstorm Radek: is baker new ?
[16:36] Ashiri Sands: Happened recently, or in the distant past?
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: yup, a newbie linden
[16:36] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:36] Baker Linden: Very new
[16:37] DrFran Babcock: and very eager. :-)
[16:37] Andrew Linden: Only report recent events. In this case, one that is happening when it is reported.
[16:37] xstorm Radek: well if the database is gettinga inventory call at time of logging off it can hang the server logging out the avatar
[16:38] Ardy Lay: The definition of "recent" varies with the age of the reporter. Care to define it for us?
[16:38] Whirly Fizzle: Old JIRA is SVC-6193
[16:38] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6193
[#SVC-6193] Avatar gets stuck in world after user logs out
[16:38] Andrew Linden: oh right xstorm, I forgot about that behavior
[16:38] xstorm Radek: every time a avatar logs off it sends update data
[16:38] xstorm Radek: ;)
[16:38] Andrew Linden: that is an attachment upload problem
[16:38] xstorm Radek: thats why i was a ibm dev on LL dev island lol
[16:38] Andrew Linden: but not database per-se, but the simulator host's connection to it
[16:39] Ashiri Sands: I'll try to deliberately get an alt stuck on logout =^_^=
[16:39] xstorm Radek: im a old fart lol
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: I believe that also affect the friend list too, same way with the attachments
[16:39] xstorm Radek: yes
[16:40] Vincent Nacon: attachment + avatar's texture and shape
[16:40] xstorm Radek: may just need a other step to check the avatar for timeout
[16:40] Ardy Lay: It's kinda odd to login and see yourself standing in the neighboring region. Same bug? Again, hasn't happened to me for years.
[16:40] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:40] Andrew Linden: yes, could be the same bug Ardy.
[16:40] xstorm Radek: better then the old black hole of death
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: I haven't been able to see another avatar of myself but i've seen more clones of my friends going through those issue
[16:41] DrFran Babcock: or being ruthed
[16:41] xstorm Radek: no black hole of death was back in 2004 when a user was stuck off world
[16:42] xstorm Radek: and lost all inventory data
[16:42] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, at some point you will need to introduce Baker to The Corn Field
[16:42] Baker Linden: I'll dig around JIRA and see if I can't find a repro case for that
[16:42] xstorm Radek: good luck
[16:43] Baker Linden: lol, thanks
[16:43] Ardy Lay: Might also keep an eye out for regions with more than a few hundred pending downloads.
[16:43] xstorm Radek: some of that has been removed do to system jira updates
[16:43] Ardy Lay: I suppose you have a reporter for that.
[16:44] Ardy Lay: When I see that show up in the region statistics I just know I am about to get disconnected.
[16:44] Andrew Linden: Baker has a lot to learn, but he's well on his way.
[16:44] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:44] Andrew Linden: For example, I'll bet he didn't understand that statement about getting "ruthed"
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: if he falls behind, break out the leather whip
[16:44] DrFran Babcock: welcome to the best darned VW in the universe, Baker
[16:44] Baker Linden: You are correct, Andrew
[16:44] Baker Linden: thanks DrFran
[16:44] xstorm Radek: i did not restart your region its a gteam or support person
[16:44] Whirly Fizzle: lol he'll meet Ruth soon enough
[16:44] DrFran Babcock: Or be Ruth
[16:45] DrFran Babcock: now it's just a boring ol puffball.
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: Dahila is Ruthed to me
[16:45] xstorm Radek: some one n waterhead was trying to blame me for a restart one time lol
[16:45] DrFran Babcock: yes, you are correct Vincent, wow
[16:45] Ardy Lay: VWR-19558
[16:45] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19558
[#VWR-19558] FJ and Howard are Women
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: oh wait... n/m she shape popped up now
[16:45] Dahlia Trimble: OMG *does vanity rebake*
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: her*
[16:45] DrFran Babcock: hehe
[16:45] Frans Charming: Ruth is the name of the default avatar, sometimes you avatar doesn;t load correctly and then you are 'ruther'd because the default has loaded.
[16:46] DrFran Babcock: thanks, Frans
[16:46] Nalates Urriah: ou rez'd Dahlia
[16:46] xstorm Radek: ? ruthed i hope not
[16:46] Dahlia Trimble: :D
[16:46] xstorm Radek: that was removed
[16:46] DrFran Babcock: but even guys have breasts when they are ruthed.
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: she's fine now, her shape popped in before I could mention it
[16:46] Rex Cronon: aren't we now just clouds?
[16:47] xstorm Radek: yes justclouds
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: depends on what setting and viewer you use, Rex
[16:47] DrFran Babcock: dist in the wind
[16:47] DrFran Babcock: hehe, *dust
[16:47] xstorm Radek: or white egg
[16:47] Ashiri Sands: Especially the viewer and machine I find
[16:48] Ardy Lay: Viewer has a Ruth Timer in it?
[16:48] Ardy Lay watches log
[16:48] Ashiri Sands: I often see ruthed avs on the laptop
[16:48] Andrew Linden: Several bugs have been mentioned today, but not as many as I expected.
[16:48] xstorm Radek: i think only a old viewer may show as ruth
[16:49] xstorm Radek: no servers are looking good
[16:49] Ardy Lay: There is a debug setting for that, xstorm.
[16:49] Jonathan Yap: I bet Baker will not fix them all by Tuesday
[16:49] Ardy Lay: RenderUnloadedAvatar
[16:49] Andrew Linden: Have many of the annoying bugs been fixed? or are we all just such old timers that the bugs don't bother us anymore?
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: both
[16:49] xstorm Radek: oh yesforgot about the test avatar system
[16:49] Ashiri Sands: And there are the minions for finding and fixing viewer bugs =^_^=
[16:50] Draconis Neurocam: honestly andrew, most of my issues are either with the viewer or new script functions i want
[16:50] Ardy Lay: WHat was that one that got mentioned every day? SVC-22?
[16:50] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-22
[#SVC-22] Vehicles crossing region borders aren't always treated as vehicles and can get incorrectly returned if the destination parcel is no-entry or parcel-full
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: yeah same here
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: I even came up new idea for Mesh developer to work on something simple
[16:50] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I thought we had made progress on SVC-22, but maybe not.
[16:50] xstorm Radek: to use 3ds or obj lol
[16:50] xstorm Radek: joking
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: don't make me slap you
[16:51] Rex Cronon: it has been kind of hard to make things change. thefore we had to get good at ignoring the bugs:(
[16:51] Vincent Nacon shakes his fist
[16:51] xstorm Radek: nyx will kill me
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: of course
[16:51] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, how about the bug with attachements for group notices not working after some time?
[16:52] Whirly Fizzle: SVC-7129
[16:52] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7129
[#SVC-7129] Attachments to group notices malfunction after some time
[16:52] xstorm Radek: did that not get fix ?
[16:52] Baker Linden: I'll see about that one as well, Ardy. I haven't done anything concerning cross-region issues yet though
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: Whirly, that is a complex issue, there are server and viewer components to it
[16:52] Vincent Nacon: wb Dahila.... now she's Ruthed again
[16:52] Whirly Fizzle: I know :(
[16:52] Ardy Lay: Baker, good luck with that one. It's so old it has tenure and deep toots.
[16:53] Jonathan Yap: I wrote up a long memo and sent it to Grumpity some time ago
[16:53] Ardy Lay: roots
[16:53] Andrew Linden: Baker, if you look into SVC-22, be sure to ask Kelly or Simon about the current state of that one.
[16:53] Baker Linden: Will do
[16:53] Baker Linden: I'll also check out 7129
[16:53] xstorm Radek: kelly is a good one for that
[16:53] Jonathan Yap: Baker, if you look into the group notices one ask Grumpity for the long email of analysis I sent her
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: yeah that one could be easy to do
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: but might be hard to find the cause
[16:54] Jonathan Yap: Also, Kelly will have some ideas on that, he was the last to work in that area (years ago)
[16:54] Ardy Lay: Probably mutated XML somewhere. ;-)
[16:54] Baker Linden: ok, thanks Jonathan.
[16:54] Whirly Fizzle: SVC-4968 is highly annoying too, It makes management of large groups impossible
[16:54] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4968
[#SVC-4968] Group won't load - too many members
[16:54] xstorm Radek: may be
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: surprised we don't have a cap on membership limit
[16:55] Dahlia Trimble: I think Baker's priorities should be (1) make a bear, (2) fix group chat
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: no bear!
[16:55] Frans Charming: Hahahaha
[16:55] DrFran Babcock: I agree with dahlia
[16:55] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:55] Ardy Lay: Heh, there are some fun tests to run on that large groups. I have gotten 25 megabit per second packet bursts when trying to see membership lists.
[16:55] DrFran Babcock: want bear
[16:55] Jonathan Yap: Or at least fill out his profile :P
[16:55] xstorm Radek: he can do a bear later
[16:55] Frans Charming: I think Baker should make a Gear.
[16:55] DrFran Babcock: and avoid becoming ruthed
[16:55] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: No bear, no gear, no tear!
[16:55] xstorm Radek: poor man
[16:55] Ashiri Sands: Group chat issues will always be with us, surely?
[16:56] Whirly Fizzle: Get a few people trying to load a large group on a region & the region goes offline :D
[16:56] xstorm Radek: group chat can be a simple buffer over run at times
[16:56] Ardy Lay: Whirly, yes it does. Oz and I did that to Hippotropolis some time ago.
[16:56] Andrew Linden: I don't think Baker is up to the task of fixing group chat yet.
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: has there any reason to see a list of members in the group? I mean only time I need to was to kick or promote a member
[16:57] Draconis Neurocam: i think they are suggesting the way group info is sent to the client rather than the chat specifically
[16:57] Draconis Neurocam: for large ones
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: so maybe ditch the list and just go with search input?
[16:57] Jonathan Yap: Maybe the member list should not be requested automatically--have a button to populate it
[16:57] Ardy Lay: Vincent, could be
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: or that
[16:58] xstorm Radek: i have seen timeout calls on group
[16:58] Ashiri Sands: Moderating a group requires loading the list of online members and that can often be large
[16:58] Ardy Lay: I joined a group with over 90,000 members and boom
[16:58] Whirly Fizzle: Ots possible to eject directly from the group chatters list. But you cant eject someone who doesnt have the chat open or change their role
[16:58] Andrew Linden: Group management should be moved off of the simulator relay system and onto HTTP services
[16:58] Dahlia Trimble: what group was that?
[16:58] Rex Cronon: the member list could give pages of 100items per page
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: over 90,000? what the hell?
[16:58] Frans Charming: the group member call should just have a limit.
[16:58] xstorm Radek: i think there was a group limit at one time do to that old bug has it been fix ?
[16:59] Frans Charming: and a next button.
[16:59] Whirly Fizzle: Open collar has about 140k members
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: surprised that allowed to work at all
[16:59] Ardy Lay: dahlia, the one Oz and I were looking at was Open Collar
[16:59] xstorm Radek: limit may need to be put in place again
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: I think some missed the Dragonball Z pun but anyway...
[17:00] Frans Charming: Andrew is moving group mamangement to HTTP Services, something Baker can do? ;)
[17:00] Ardy Lay: Well, I would guess the simulator hosts are sending a hell of a lot of UDP packets in response to those requests.
[17:00] Rex Cronon: i would like to see how group chat works in a group with 20k loggin users:)
[17:00] Andrew Linden: No, not yet Frans, I think.
[17:00] Frans Charming: Ok, because that sounds like a good plan.
[17:01] Ardy Lay: The viewer starts spewing out of order and invalid header errors
[17:01] xstorm Radek: if i remember right estate systems had group limits and so do land lists and that was server side limits
[17:02] xstorm Radek: if groups go past that limit you will make bugs and problems
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Hrm... I wonder if the Group management stuff could be moved to a web service on the sim host as a prototype, and then later migrated to a proper services stack.
[17:02] Andrew Linden: That would be easier to attempt because then we don't have to stand up the hardware first
[17:03] Andrew Linden: and no need to coordinate across teams
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: ahh the meeting is over, btw. Just noticed the clock
[17:03] xstorm Radek: that i think can be done andrew
[17:03] DrFran Babcock: awww, this was a very informative one.
[17:03] DrFran Babcock: Welcome again, Baker. Look forward to seeing you again.
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: aye
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: welcome aboard!
[17:03] Ardy Lay: Dashboard just lists group names and member counts at the moment.
[17:03] Andrew Linden: I wrote some web services that live on the sim host for pathfinding (downloading the navmesh data)
[17:04] Baker Linden: Thanks! I'll be joining these meetings when I can. I'm definitely looking forward to the next one!
[17:04] Andrew Linden: and now that I've done that it seems not too hard to move a single operation in a similar way
[17:04] Vincent Nacon: be sure to play with your dashboard on JIRA to define your daily search to pick up which bugs to work on
[17:04] xstorm Radek: it mayhelp a lot of problems
[17:04] xstorm Radek: getting pas old limits
[17:04] Dahlia Trimble: Welcome Baker and dont forget to make a bear :D
[17:04] Vincent Nacon: Baker*
[17:04] Andrew Linden: although in the long term we probably want centralized services to take advantage of caching possibilities
[17:05] Jonathan Yap: Baker, it is good to have you "aboard"
[17:05] Andrew Linden: otherwise the database becomes the bottleneck and trouble spot
[17:05] Baker Linden: haha, I'll get around to the bear -- may not be for a bit though.
[17:05] xstorm Radek: yes
[17:05] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming.
[17:05] Rex Cronon: tc andrew, baker
[17:05] xstorm Radek: no thank you
[17:05] Baker Linden: Thanks everyone!
[17:05] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
[17:05] Nalates Urriah: bye
[17:05] Frans Charming: Thank you Baker and Andrew! :)
[17:06] Rex Cronon: and have a nice day
[17:06] Jonathan Yap: Baker, if you need help with building just ask--I bet someone in this group would explain the more advanced things to you
[17:06] Dahlia Trimble: BEAR BEAR BEAR!!!
[17:06] Vincent Nacon: no bear!
[17:06] Vincent Nacon: I'm gonna have to slap that lady
[17:06] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
Simulator_User_Group
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