Mesh/Archive/2012-01-30

==Agenda==
# A question arose earlier about flexi-meshes in a mesh group. I mentioned that the best course of action would probably be to do custom armatures first and then reinstate joint physics, but that got me to remember that LL promised to reinstate joints after upgrading Havok. What happened to that, and will it actually be useful for flexi-meshes? Feynt Mistral 10:54, 30 January 2012 (PST)
# Sorry, I took my sweet time to getting around to this, but now I would like to report that I have disseminated the information I got as a result of a previous meeting. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Building-and-Texturing-Forum/Information-about-physics-optimization-lag-reduction-and-Mesh/td-p/1359589
# What causes the mesh queue to get clogged and stop loading meshes? This seems to be occurring very often recently and it sucks to have to relog to fix it. (Tiberious)
# What's the latest on having the importer honor attachment point offsetting? Is this still in the cards, or are we too far in for that now? (Tiberious)
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Alisha Matova (alisha.matova)
*Ash Weststar (ash.qin)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Ayamo Nozaki (ayamo.nozaki)
*Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)
*ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)
*draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Freemason Magic (freemason.magic)
*Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad)
*Gramma Fiddlesticks (gramma.fiddlesticks)
*IMACATMEWMEW (imacatmewmew)
*Jonathan (jonathan.yap)
*Medhue Simoni (medhue.simoni)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Object (object)
*Xentha Melune (questar.utu)
*Racush (racush.cheeky)
*Random Person (random.person)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Tiberious Neruda (tiberious.neruda)
*Vincent Nacon (vincent.nacon)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday January 30, 2012==
[12:00]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Hey Charlar & Runitai.
[12:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Tiberious. You are Pokemon.
[12:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	ゾロアーク
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Asha!
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I am awake :D
[12:03]	Second Life 	An error has occurred while trying to connect to voice chat for Content Creator UG. Please try again later.
[12:03]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	21:03
[12:03]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	shadows are acting weird D:
[12:03]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	:o
[12:04]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I'm out of VRAM already. Well, I'll probably crash at least once then.
[12:04]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Hi everyone. We'll start in just a sec
[12:04]	Nyx Linden 	everyone have a good weekend? :)
[12:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hiya Charlar
[12:04]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I was glued to Skyrim during the weekend. >.>
[12:04]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Pretty much.
[12:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I did yes ^^ How about you Nyx?
[12:04]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	lol - me too
[12:05]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	busy cat :O
[12:05]	IMACATMEWMEW 	meow
[12:05]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Science was done.
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	yep yep, got some board gaming time in :D
[12:05]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	hey nyx
[12:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:06]	Ayamo Nozaki 	hey ash, how to reproduce this http://is.gd/owu7Lp
[12:06]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	....
[12:06]	Ayamo Nozaki 	keeps happening randomly
[12:06]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	we should add this to exodus
[12:07]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	OK, let's get started
[12:07]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Who should I mute to get rid of the Wows?
[12:07]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Everyone.
[12:07]	Xentha Melune (questar.utu) 	The giant metal cat head.
[12:07]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	You can block avatar gestures, that might solve it easily
[12:07]	Xentha Melune (questar.utu) 	person-thing.
[12:08]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	ok, let's start again
[12:08]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	1) A question arose earlier about flexi-meshes in a mesh group. I mentioned that the best course of action would probably be to do custom armatures first and then reinstate joint physics, but that got me to remember that LL promised to reinstate joints after upgrading Havok. What happened to that, and will it actually be useful for flexi-meshes? Feynt Mistral 10:54, 30 January 2012 (PST)
[12:09]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Ooops - sorry
[12:09]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I have the flu
[12:09]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	reposting
[12:09]	Medhue Simoni 	I don't understand why joints are an issue
[12:10]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	1) A question arose earlier about flexi-meshes in a mesh group. I mentioned that the best course of action would probably be to do custom armatures first and then reinstate joint physics, but that got me to remember that LL promised to reinstate joints after upgrading Havok. What happened to that, and will it actually be useful for flexi-meshes? Feynt Mistral 10:54, 30 January 2012 (PST)
[12:10]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I don't think we 'promised' anything.
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	rigged non-avatar objects would be the correct way to handle that. We're not going to enable "flexi" for meshes.
[12:11]	Tiberious Neruda 	I have no problem with that, Nyx
[12:11]	Medhue Simoni 	no need for flexy mesh
[12:11]	Medhue Simoni 	bones are better
[12:12]	Tiberious Neruda 	in fact, I stated a way we could have a skeleton that acted like a flexiprim's 'core'... but nobody ever responded
[12:12]	Tiberious Neruda 	err
[12:13]	Tiberious Neruda 	I mean meantioned that there had to be a way to get a skeleton to act like it, I mean
[12:13]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	IK-solvers would be nice.
[12:13]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	indeed
[12:13]	Medhue Simoni 	Well if a mesh can have bones
[12:13]	Medhue Simoni 	and the mesh can be attached, that is all we need
[12:14]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'd imagine the bones would need to have constraints in their rotation
[12:14]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Option to upload rigs separately?
[12:14]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	ok, let's move on.
[12:15]	Medhue Simoni 	So if the bones on the mesh could be animated, you would have the mesh bones animate on walk, run, stand, and so on
[12:15]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	2) Sorry, I took my sweet time to getting around to this, but now I would like to report that I have disseminated the information I got as a result of a previous meeting. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Building-and-Texturing-Forum/Information-about-physics-optimization-lag-reduction-and-Mesh/td-p/1359589
[12:16]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I don't think there's anything to add to this...
[12:16]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Just tell me if I got something horribly wrong.
[12:17]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	ok, thanks Davido
[12:17]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Nice post.
[12:17]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	NP.
[12:17]	Object 	Hello, Avatar!
[12:17]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	next item
[12:18]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	3) What causes the mesh queue to get clogged and stop loading meshes? This seems to be occurring very often recently and it sucks to have to relog to fix it. (Tiberious)
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	not sure where that bug got introduced, but it's fixed internally
[12:18]	Vincent Nacon 	Davido, you might want to take everything about vehicle out....
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	here's the changeset if you want to pull it to your TPV
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Borrowdale/79/225/32
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	er, wrong link
[12:18]	davep (runitai.linden) 	https://bitbucket.org/VirLinden/viewer-development-shining-fixes/changeset/0b46be9e4c52
[12:18]	Vincent Nacon 	it has pro and con that haven't been sorted out in best answer
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	hearing the fix is working is a good thing
[12:19]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'm certain Firestorm's aware of it
[12:19]	Vir Linden 	it's in the pipeline, may be in 3.2.8 or 3.2.9 depending how the timing works out.
[12:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Vincent, it's pretty much what Falcon linden told me.
[12:19]	Vincent Nacon 	yeah.... Falcon haven't been attending much meeting
[12:20]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	next item...
[12:20]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	4) What's the latest on having the importer honor attachment point offsetting? Is this still in the cards, or are we too far in for that now? (Tiberious)
[12:20]	Tiberious Neruda 	and if they're not, I can make them aware of it very quickly
[12:20]	Tiberious Neruda 	(I know, I double-dipped... but the agenda was hurting for items. Sorry)
[12:22]	Vir Linden 	do you mean attachment point offsets or bone offsets?
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	attachment point offsets
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	like Mouth, Chin, Nose, etc.
[12:22]	Vincent Nacon 	I think that question is confusing...
[12:23]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Vincent, I don't think I was at those meetings either. Get me the relevant points and I'll edit them into the post.
[12:23]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Do you mean support rigging to attachment point bone names?
[12:23]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Why so confused, Vincent?
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	the import already supports that... but not very well-documented
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I know that. That's why I'm asking if you are referring to it. lol
[12:24]	Vincent Nacon 	what Asha said
[12:24]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	hmm had a jira on this let me find it again
[12:24]	Tiberious Neruda 	but the problem is, in order to position those points where we want them, we have to use hacked animations to move them
[12:24]	Vincent Nacon 	attachment point != Bones
[12:25]	Vincent Nacon 	oh I see what you're getting at
[12:25]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Right, that is problematic.
[12:25]	Vincent Nacon 	you can't really change offset with bone... must have to do it with animation pose instead
[12:25]	Tiberious Neruda 	exactly
[12:26]	Random Person 	hello, I'm trying to find out if the mesh in sl currently supports normal mapping, or custom rigging
[12:26]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Or bypass BVH and upload as anim-files? I think they said that was possible on another meeting.
[12:26]	Vincent Nacon 	so your question is... can we make offset in animation pose?
[12:26]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No Random
[12:26]	Tiberious Neruda 	no
[12:26]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	I am working on a viewer change that will let you upload .anim files
[12:26]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SH-2436
[12:26]	Vincent Nacon 	there ya go
[12:26]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	(it's already possible in TPVs)
[12:26]	Tiberious Neruda 	what I mean is, offsetting the attachment point when the mesh is uploaded
[12:27]	Tiberious Neruda 	and worn
[12:27]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	the importer could accept the offset data thats already in the dae file
[12:27]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	there are some other problems I did find
[12:27]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks Racush
[12:27]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	like if you have L hand
[12:27]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	it will not put the full name it seems to split at the space
[12:28]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	and the weight data gets lost
[12:28]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Ah, you want a reparser?
[12:28]	Tiberious Neruda 	true, some of these attachment points COULD be used for impromptu bones...
[12:28]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	that would help
[12:28]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	so it will match the attachment names in the avatar xml file
[12:29]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	There is a file with all that fixed on the Machinimatrix blog.
[12:30]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	hm?
[12:30]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	it patches the mesh importer?
[12:31]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No, it fixes the joint issues withing the latter versions of Blender.
[12:31]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	thats not my issue
[12:31]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It has nothing to do with attachment points.
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*within
[12:32]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	brb need to relog
[12:32]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I'm happy to let you all continue chatting about this, but to be honest I'm going downhill quickly...
[12:32]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'm hoping the question being asked is making sense now
[12:33]	Random Person 	are there any plans for supporting normal mapping or custom rigging within the next 6 months
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Aww...hope you feel better soon Charlar
[12:33]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	depends on your definition of Planning.
[12:33]	Tiberious Neruda 	normal mapping sounds like something materials might cover
[12:33]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I'm kidding.
[12:33]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	How high are materials on your list, Charlar? :p
[12:33]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	We have both on our backlog, but we haven't commited to either yet.
[12:34]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	What it means is that those are important to us.
[12:34]	Tiberious Neruda 	well, if you're looking for ideas for the materials project, lord do I have a few
[12:34]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	How long are those lists? 5, 6, 7 figures?
[12:34]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	There's a thread on the forum Tiberious
[12:34]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	There is a thread already out there Tiberious. You might want to add to it.
[12:35]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	yes, please do.
[12:35]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	jinx lol
[12:35]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Nal - I saw that.
[12:35]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Ayamo, what the hell is that.
[12:35]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	:P ... we know you are busy... just not how busy.
[12:35]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	8D
[12:35]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Materials-Project-Wishlist/m-p/1057107#M5553
[12:36]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	We're trying to focus our planning. We'll be talking about our focus for the next few months in a few days.
[12:36]	Ayamo Nozaki 	idk my avatar wont load.
[12:36]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	\o/
[12:36]	Ayamo Nozaki 	that's better.
[12:37]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Do you all want some mesh metrics?
[12:37]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I bet a lot of people are wondering about that third party Mesh clothing thing.
[12:37]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	The deformer, Katt?
[12:37]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	what are the metrics on?
[12:37]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Yes.
[12:37]	Medhue Simoni 	i love metrics almost as much as brains
[12:38]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I was wondering if there is a Linden viewer that has the deformer code that can be downloaded.
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Yes... there is
[12:38]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I seem to remember Oz made one - Don't remember the link though.
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I'm looking...
[12:38]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Do you have a link? I'd love you forever. :D
[12:38]	Ayamo Nozaki 	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/oz_project-2/rev/247240/index.html
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	:)
[12:39]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Lots of loving. :D
[12:39]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thank you ^^
[12:39]	Alisha Matova 	/yea, thanks =)
[12:40]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	thank you Ayamo!!
[12:40]	Ayamo Nozaki 	it's from the Jira
[12:40]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hopefully, I get to experiment with the deformer on different viewers this week.
[12:40]	Ayamo Nozaki 	it's on the Jira even.
[12:41]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	relating to viewers supporting mesh...
[12:41]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	70% of residents
[12:41]	Tiberious Neruda 	could be interesting
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Which JIRA? The deformer JIRA?
[12:41]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	There is a new Zen Viewer out that is very SLV3 like with the Deformer with on/off switch and all the build tools one could hopr for plus particle editor.
[12:41]	Vincent Nacon 	viewer-side or item-side switch?
[12:41]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	viewer side
[12:42]	Vincent Nacon 	meh
[12:42]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	thats interesting, the sessions and the residents are disperate
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Zen Viewer? Oh goodness, I can't keep up with them all..:D
[12:42]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	well it lets you make comparisions without changing viewers.
[12:42]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Yay, viewer locked up. Nothing spewed into the log though.
[12:42]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	so danged many viewers is making teaching classes relly tough!
[12:42]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	So ok Asha, I can't either.
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No kidding Gramma
[12:43]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	<<< students expect us to know ALL the viewers!
[12:43]	Vincent Nacon 	you only need one class... Firestorm viewer
[12:43]	Vincent Nacon 	:P
[12:43]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Ew, no.
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol ...yes, I have had that experience Gramma
[12:43]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Gramma, maybe a cycling shedule? This week people with that and that viewer can come.
[12:43]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	No way one can support them all.
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I'm liking Exodus a lot right now myself.
[12:44]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	frankly I pretty much stick with mesh enabled Pheonix and current beta veiwer 3.
[12:44]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Me too. I listened to their interview on MetaReality. Came off sounding pretty good.
[12:44]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I use shining-fixes to help Runitai, Vir and such find bugs before they get into the main viewer.
[12:44]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	thanks :D
[12:44]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Mmhmm
[12:45]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I end up using the SL Dev viewer most of the time.
[12:45]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	and if I could get just a couple more things into viewer 3 I'd use only it.
[12:45]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I'm going back and forth between Exodus and the official viewer, when I get paranoid about some upload error.
[12:45]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	What are you looking for rGamma?
[12:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	I want ability to dock local chat in same window as group chats and IM's. That's my pet peeve. *grin
[12:46]	Medhue Simoni 	Is that all the metrics Charlar?
[12:46]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	hah
[12:46]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	sorry
[12:46]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	I need it that way to accomadate my teaching methods.
[12:46]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	one more...
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I think Dolphin 3 has that and is very SLV3 like.
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I'll be quite
[12:47]	Gramma Fiddlesticks 	Thanks Nalates. I'll check that one.
[12:47]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Recently our total uploaded items surpassed our previous high, back in August. It's been on an upward trend since the beginning of December.
[12:47]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	on a daily basis
[12:48]	Medhue Simoni 	and the percentage of sims with mesh?
[12:48]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	wow, i am sick. Sorry, just a sec...
[12:49]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	28% of regions have mesh on them.
[12:49]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hmm
[12:49]	Medhue Simoni 	cool, climbing daily
[12:49]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	folks, I'm sorry, I need to go.
[12:49]	Object 	Hello, Avatar!
[12:50]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	take care charlar
[12:50]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Go get some rest, Charlar.
[12:50]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Charlar. Hope you feel better.
[12:50]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Get better Charlar.
[12:50]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	bye harlar
[12:50]	Vincent Nacon 	take care
[12:50]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	charlar*
[12:50]	Medhue Simoni 	np, cya charlar
[12:50]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	bye
[12:50]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you charlar.
[12:50]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	THanks for coming!
[12:50]	Freemason Magic 	thank you
[12:51]	Vir Linden 	bye all
[12:51]	Racush (racush.cheeky) 	seeya Vir
[12:51]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	So, 70% of residents can see mesh. That's not too bad. But, maybe still dangerous to make a store building out of mesh?
Generated by the 'Wikify SL Chat Log' utility by DG Products for Second Life (DGP4SL)