Open Source Meeting/2010-07-29

=== Agenda Thursday, 29 July 2010 ===
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# What is the policy on putting new builds (both branch and trunk) on the wiki? I suggest we should put new builds up very often, unless there is are known severe bugs. To find bugs we need users, and the number of people who are following the mailing lists is not big enough. --Thickbrick
#* A sub question is, should we leave doing these updates to Merov, or is this fair game?
# Suggestion for prettifying the Snowglobe page and making the right downloads easier to find for non-technical users. Ok to make this change to the page (and included templates)? --Thickbrick
# Currently there is not an easy way to tell what commit applies to what code base. It would be nice to have the 3 trunks identified in some fashion rather than sharing a sequential commit number. Thoughts? --Jonathan Yap
== Transcript ==
[13:47]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	hey everyone
[13:50]	Ardy Lay: 	Hi
[13:52]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Hi
[13:56]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	her comes a thickbrick :p
[13:56]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	hi
[13:57]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	well i have build going while im here for the meeting :/
[13:58]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	So do I, building snowglobe 2.1 trunk now.
[13:58]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	you might want to add the patch from SNOW-775 to run trunk
[13:58]	Menu check 	items always appear to be enabled since r3568
[14:00]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	it is in there
[14:00]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	but my build will not be done til WAY after the meeting
[14:02]	Aleric Inglewood: 	ok we can start, Robin is here
[14:02]	Robin Cornelius: 	+1 Aleric
[14:02]	Aleric Inglewood: 	,me reads point 2 on the agenda.
[14:03]	Aleric Inglewood: 	# What is the policy on putting new builds (both branch and trunk) on the wiki? I suggest we should put new builds up very often, unless there is are known severe bugs. To find bugs we need users, and the number of people who are following the mailing lists is not big enough. --Thickbrick * A sub question is, should we leave doing these updates to Merov, or is this fair game?
[14:03]	Oz Linden: 	Hi all
[14:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Hi Oz
[14:04]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Hi Oz
[14:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I alread updated the links since then, and posted about it to osdev. But the question stilll stands.
[14:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I wonder how long those links stay valid.
[14:04]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	hey oz and merov
[14:04]	Oz Linden: 	I think it's fine (in fact, helpful) for you to do those updates
[14:05]	Robin Cornelius: 	I think that its worth having a link to the latest bleading edge auto builds at all times
[14:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That's a good idea, Aleric. Wasn't there discussion previously about automating builds every night?
[14:05]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Seems to me that when a link points to an autobuild, then it makes lots of sense to change the link if there is a new one :p
[14:05]	Robin Cornelius: 	builds are every commit (where possible)
[14:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That's even better. Where are they kept Robin?
[14:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	the latest builds are not always something that we would want to unleash on the unsuspecting population who doesn't follow opensource-dev
[14:06]	Robin Cornelius: 	the links get sent out on sldev-commit, this is the point its difficult to find and only a few track that list
[14:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	now my net buggered again
[14:07]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	BTW, are we Merov-less today?
[14:07]	Robin Cornelius: 	i think a big approprate warning that they are automatic and may eat your dog adn Aleric is right more testers, sure if we push a stinker, manually roll back the link to an older one
[14:07]	Oz Linden: 	That might be a good thing to have the Shadow Government HQ provide links for :-)
[14:07]	Cummere Mayo: 	looks like aimeeless to?
[14:07]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Wouldn't be easier to mod the wiki to auto-inline the current release link
[14:07]	Robin Cornelius: 	Oh good idea oz, put the latest build links up over there
[14:07]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Robin: I assume that list has the usual archives page, so that sounds quite usable for web downloads too.
[14:08]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Oz +1
[14:08]	Robin Cornelius: 	its hosted from S3 so you need to know the URL you can't just search ( i tried)
[14:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Bah
[14:08]	Robin Cornelius: 	crying out for an automatic something
[14:09]	Oz Linden: 	I think there's probably a page somewhere we could point to that would already have those results... if not, I can talk to the folks who maintain that infrastructure about adding one
[14:09]	Merov Linden 	apologizes for being late... chat with brad...
[14:09]	Aleric Inglewood: 	How on earth would I find all open bugs for 1.4 ? The jira doesn't allow me to search for "1.4" bugs only :/
[14:09]	Cummere Mayo: 	blame it all on brad huh?
[14:09]	Oz Linden: 	If you need more time with Brad, take it and I'll herd these cats
[14:09]	Oz Linden: 	Don't bug him ... you'll like what they're doing
[14:09]	Latif Khalifa: 	https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev-commits/
[14:09]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	not all of us are cats oz :p
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius: 	Oz that sounds useful, a page with the build history and links
[14:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I don't think updating the wiki links is that hard - Rob made very useful templates, basically all you need to change in incremental builds is the build number in one place.
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I have fur, but is defetelly not a cat.
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	:-)
[14:10]	Robin Cornelius 	*pUrrrpUrrr~~*
[14:11]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	However...*points to Robin*
[14:11]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	:-)
[14:11]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Ah! I got it :) ... open bugs for 1.4: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&type=1&pid=10100&version=10570&status=1&status=3&status=4&status=10001&sorter /field=issuekey&sorter/order=DESC
[14:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think the reason the wiki links have been so out of date recently is that people weren't sure what goes where and when.
[14:12]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	And the whole 2.x "seket" project that was dumped on everyone at once.
[14:12]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	wikis tend not to get updated when there is low morial in the trooops.
[14:13]	Oz Linden 	has created SNOW-778
[14:13]	Make nightly 	builds visible on wiki or other web page
[14:13]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	But that it startingt to change.
[14:13]	Latif Khalifa: 	once upon a time we had a nice source downloads page too http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Source_downloads
[14:13]	Flight Band: 	All Go
[14:14]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Maybe the teamcity build script could dump links to a fixed-name file somewhere?
[14:14]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Instead of "Where's the beef?" its "Where's the source?" now. :-)
[14:14]	Oz Linden: 	I don't like manually updated pages for stuff like this
[14:14]	Latif Khalifa: 	the last download of the official viewer tehere is 1.23.5
[14:14]	Oz Linden: 	if it's automatic, it stays current, and if not it's pretty quickly junk
[14:15]	Oz Linden: 	I'm making a catalog of pages to update in the open source area.... long list
[14:15]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Oz, there has to be *some* manual control over those builds. If the "test builds" are really not safe to install we would have no testers.
[14:15]	Cummere Mayo: 	define safe ?
[14:15]	Oz Linden: 	yes, we need occasional ones that have been at least smoke tested
[14:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar 	only runs on his test builds
[14:15]	Oz Linden: 	(running them does not delete your filesystem)
[14:16]	Cummere Mayo: 	im running on testbuilds. soemtimes i have to go backwords but only rarely does anything truely break for me
[14:17]	Cummere Mayo: 	THOUGH the webkit is still broken for me even with uninstalling 2.1 and the obsoliete bsi and rc builds i had had and reinstalling -_-
[14:17]	Latif Khalifa: 	yes, the quality of the test builds is quite high, i don't understand the hesitation
[14:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	The main potential problem I see is that if we want to keep Snowglobe accessible to peopel who don't know what "trunk" means, we have to be very clear on what they can expect from which build. And I don't think we should only concentrate on a viewer "by developers, for developers"
[14:18]	Oz Linden: 	agreed
[14:18]	Latif Khalifa: 	no, but you have officia releases like 1.4 hopefully soon, those are for general public. and thhen you can have test builds with an appropriate warning that stuff might break
[14:18]	Robin Cornelius: 	i think we have been pretty responsible when committing changes to try to keep things working, and people have been swift when mistakes have been made
[14:19]	Ardy Lay: 	Need 3 tiers? Released, release candidate and "here may be dragons"
[14:19]	Oz Linden: 	careful caveats are important, and test builds should be well labelled (and a bit harder to find)
[14:19]	Latif Khalifa: 	most projects have "nightly build" or equivalent
[14:19]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I had a couple of friends who I sent to download snowglobe tell me "I don't know how to read that page"
[14:20]	Robin Cornelius: 	its clearly web design by a c++ developer
[14:20]	Cummere Mayo: 	most of the stuff thats gotten broken has been from merges with the official LL viewer side. I honestly think we shoud be good to post a nightly test build. we could even broadcast the link to the snowglobe group like they did for bsi viewers
[14:20]	Robin Cornelius: 	its a terrible page to read, Thickbricks improvments are much much better
[14:21]	Boroondas Gupte: 	I don't think so, Robin. Much too sequential. Not at all object oriented.
[14:21]	Robin Cornelius: 	I was atually thinking of that myself Cummere, and hping latif's bot could feed to the SG group in world ;-)
[14:22]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Damn we need more groups.
[14:22]	Latif Khalifa: 	sure which group?
[14:22]	Cummere Mayo: 	robin you know what they say... great nekos think alike
[14:22]	Robin Cornelius: 	Snowglobe ? seemed like the ideal to announce new builds availiable
[14:22]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	YEs
[14:23]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	how about #openSL into Snowglobe group
[14:23]	Robin Cornelius: 	snowglboe is not just developers
[14:23]	Latif Khalifa: 	which group?
[14:23]	Cummere Mayo: 	im NOT a developer, neither are most people i point to SG.
[14:23]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(I don't object to adding automatic build posting on the wiki, just as long as it doesn't complicate things further)
[14:23]	Robin Cornelius: 	i think we would turn a lot of potential users with our #opensl chat
[14:23]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Snowglobe groups has said they want in-world updates on releases
[14:23]	Robin Cornelius: 	s/of/off/
[14:24]	Dzonatas Sol: 	maybe a auto-notice post
[14:24]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	then how about the SL contri group for #opensl?
[14:24]	Dzonatas Sol: 	not just a chat message
[14:24]	Robin Cornelius: 	hmm not sure about that?
[14:24]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well creating a special group just for release messages doesn't scale, because of 25-group limit. Snowglobe group is good enough.
[14:25]	Boroondas Gupte: 	pity one can't use roles for fine tuning message distribution
[14:25]	Cummere Mayo: 	yeah. I agree with morgaine. and if thats not an option heck jsut set up a subscribeomatic then
[14:25]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	right now we have 3 active branches so that can be a lot of messages per day.
[14:25]	Latif Khalifa: 	which group are we talking about?
[14:25]	Boroondas Gupte: 	the "Snowglobe" group
[14:26]	Dzonatas Sol: 	SL Open Source Contributors", "Snowglobe", and "Second Life Source Developers"
[14:27]	Morgaine Dinova: 	If it's a build on every commit, then it sure would destroy that group being used for discussion about Snowglobe. Seems like a rock and a hard place.
[14:27]	Latif Khalifa: 	there are max 10 commits a day
[14:27]	Latif Khalifa: 	i wouldn't worry about it
[14:27]	Robin Cornelius: 	We could apply some reasonable sensible throttling if it was a big issue
[14:27]	Robin Cornelius: 	and rapid commits do not all generate builds
[14:28]	Merov Linden: 	build on commits helped folks to catch compile errors on other platforms before long... good thing...
[14:28]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Auto-Notice posts can be made to timeout
[14:28]	Robin Cornelius: 	we already get all the commit by commit messages in #opensl and we chat just fine there with them going on
[14:28]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	or have the notifing system sort out the messages to the proper group for the diffiernt builds
[14:28]	Latif Khalifa: 	Robin, I could enhance Jarilo to accept some sort of rpc call that it could convert to say group notice
[14:28]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Let's see how it goes. If it's too much, it can be throttled to a max of N per hour.
[14:29]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	group message or group notice?
[14:29]	Dzonatas Sol: 	group notice +1
[14:29]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(group notices seem to *sometime* be sent to email)
[14:29]	Dzonatas Sol: 	There not sent to email if your logged in
[14:30]	Latif Khalifa: 	they are always if you're offline and have send ims to email ticked
[14:30]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Always if the group is small enough.
[14:30]	Robin Cornelius: 	its 161 currently
[14:32]	Latif Khalifa: 	well we could create ##snowglobe on freenode and couple that to group chat so a bot posting there will know specifically it's meant for Snowglobe inword chat
[14:33]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Latif: woot, World Domination! o/
[14:33]	Morgaine Dinova 	chuckles
[14:33]	Robin Cornelius: 	that sounds like a good starting place +1 to that
[14:33]	Cummere Mayo 	nods
[14:33]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	yes
[14:34]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	hopes he is still here
[14:34]	Boroondas Gupte: 	who?
[14:34]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	me
[14:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Voice connection is flapping up and down for me, doesn't usually here. Anyone else getting that?
[14:35]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	my whoe net is pulsing
[14:36]	Cummere Mayo: 	((Im only wearing the holsters btw, so please dont be concerned ))
[14:36]	Jonathan Yap: 	What has happened to the discussion?
[14:36]	Robin Cornelius: 	it kind of fizzeled out
[14:36]	Thickbrick Sleaford 	adds more fuel
[14:37]	Jonathan Yap: 	Merov et. al. I just added a new topic -- refresh your agenda page
[14:37]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It's not dead, it's only sleeping.
[14:37]	Cummere Mayo: 	lol
[14:37]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	so, where' done with item 2?
[14:37]	Robin Cornelius: 	ok i think we covered the main points #2 and #3 anything to add?
[14:37]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	well, I wanted a yes/no on 3
[14:37]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	oz if you hear an explision from the south it is me sending my roughter to the moon
[14:37]	Jonathan Yap: 	yes item #4 :)
[14:37]	Robin Cornelius: 	ok may be we only touched 3
[14:37]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	i.e. what do people think of https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Thickbrick_Sleaford/Sandbox
[14:38]	WolfPup Lowenhar 	will have to read transscript having to log out to fix roughter
[14:38]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: What is the status on SNOW-604 ?
[14:38]	Files missing 	from server: slviewer-artwork-oss-viewer-1.23.4.139024.zip, slviewer-win32-libs-oss-viewer-1.23.4.139024.zip
[14:38]	Robin Cornelius: 	Massive improvment Thickbrick
[14:38]	Jonathan Yap: 	Easy to follow Thickbrick
[14:38]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Looks good
[14:38]	Jonathan Yap: 	Good use of graphics
[14:39]	Cummere Mayo: 	I like it nice and clean
[14:39]	Dzonatas Sol: 	I would like to see that page Thickbrick did to blog format
[14:39]	Dzonatas Sol: 	instead of wiki
[14:39]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	?
[14:39]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Boroondas: what is the status of SNOW-623 ?
[14:39]	No Boost 	1.42 compatibility
[14:39]	Cummere Mayo: 	why to blog format?
[14:39]	Oz Linden: 	Very good Thickbrick
[14:40]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	SO a yes on applying that to the Snowglobe (and related templates) page?
[14:40]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Because it is good, and it could be further extended on a blog
[14:40]	Robin Cornelius: 	+1 from me
[14:41]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: why was SNOW-639 moved to 1.5 ?
[14:41]	Version number 	not updated for SG 1.4 in InfoPlist.Strings
[14:41]	Jonathan Yap: 	If there is also a blog page that is 1 more place updating would have to be done
[14:41]	Cummere Mayo: 	um did i accidently mute aimee merov and oz or something?
[14:41]	Boroondas Gupte: 	haven't tested recently, Aleric. But I guess subtask 3 (SNOW-626) is still broken. (I haven't done anything about that, yet.)
[14:41]	Snowglobe 2 	compiled against Boost-1.42 crashes when certain command line options are given
[14:41]	Oz Linden: 	I'm completely ok with you updating the existing Snowglobe page to that, Thickbrick
[14:41]	Dzonatas Sol: 	I'm just thinking of way so we don't have to maintain wiki pages
[14:41]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I'm pretty sure I'm using 1.42 without problems
[14:42]	Dzonatas Sol: 	wiki pages have always fallen behind
[14:42]	Oz Linden: 	blogs are manually updated too... they'll get stale at exactly the same rate
[14:42]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	that's simple: add an AI plugin to MediaWiki and have it come to office hours.
[14:42]	Aleric Inglewood 	thinks point #2 on the agenda should have taken 5 minutes (you will work on it, fix it and report back next week), not 45 minutes
[14:43]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Easier to auto-update a blog then wiki pages
[14:43]	Oz Linden: 	Thickbrick... double check to make sure that none of the existing links are lost (move them down if they'r not important)
[14:43]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	ok
[14:43]	Dzonatas Sol: 	No biggie...
[14:44]	Boroondas Gupte: 	What point #2, Aleric? Are you looking at Tuesday's agenda?
[14:45]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Another +1 for Thickbrick's page
[14:45]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	so where done with #3, right?
[14:45]	Oz Linden: 	#4 - Jonathan?
[14:45]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	*we're
[14:45]	Jonathan Yap: 	yes
[14:45]	Jonathan Yap: 	point #4 (reload everyone)
[14:45]	Oz Linden: 	Identitfied where?
[14:46]	Jonathan Yap: 	I see commit message i.le. r1234 is just done, then r1235 -- but they apply to different code bases
[14:46]	Julien Storno: 	y a t'il des français?
[14:46]	Merov Linden 	se planque...
[14:46]	Jonathan Yap: 	Ideally I would like to see each code base have its own numbering
[14:46]	Oz Linden: 	not different code bases... different branches
[14:46]	Oz Linden: 	right?
[14:46]	Jonathan Yap: 	or some way to tell if I need to apply patches to my local copy
[14:47]	Jonathan Yap: 	and easily know which ones they are
[14:47]	Oz Linden: 	That's just the way that subversion works... each repo has only one number
[14:47]	Oz Linden: 	a commit to any branch increments that global counter
[14:47]	Jonathan Yap: 	It's not just me that finds this confusing
[14:47]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	you can set up mail filters on the notices from slev-commits, and filtered by the patch in the title
[14:47]	Jonathan Yap: 	or maybe it is more of an annoyance
[14:47]	Oz Linden: 	No, it's all subversion users :-)
[14:47]	Boroondas Gupte: 	:-P
[14:48]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Wait... I object to Thickbricks page :p
[14:48]	Boroondas Gupte: 	...
[14:48]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	>_>
[14:48]	Jonathan Yap: 	I'd even be happy to see different numerical ranges used to identify the various trunks
[14:48]	Jonathan Yap: 	maybe none of that is an option though
[14:48]	Oz Linden: 	We'll come back to it Aleric
[14:48]	Oz Linden: 	Can't do it, Jonathan
[14:49]	Aleric Inglewood: 	We would use certain pages as canonical - most notably I have put a lot of time into https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%28Linux%29
[14:49]	Oz Linden: 	not until we move the branches to different repositories (hg)
[14:49]	Aleric Inglewood: 	But his page takes a short cut to a totally different page for compiling on linux?!? I don't get it why there have to be two pages for that, and I object that it isn't my updated page :/
[14:50]	Jonathan Yap: 	okay, I guess that ends the discussion of item #4 :)
[14:50]	Boroondas Gupte: 	it's a wiki, edit it ;-)
[14:50]	Oz Linden: 	We certainly should have only one, regarless of how you get there
[14:50]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I just copied that part from the current SG page, Aleric
[14:50]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	(maybe I fudged the link, though)
[14:50]	Jonathan Yap: 	Merov, what about snow-639 ?
[14:50]	Oz Linden: 	Can you two work together and make sure that the Snowglobe page points to the most recent / best instructions on that?
[14:50]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Ah, that's Opensource Obscure's quick-guide
[14:51]	Merov Linden: 	SNOW-639
[14:51]	Boroondas Gupte: 	it's not intended for first time builders but rather for those who need a quick reminder of the steps
[14:51]	Jonathan Yap: 	jira helper seems to be napping
[14:52]	Oz Linden: 	the project page should point to comprehensive instructions
[14:53]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	jira helper is case sensitive: SNOW-639
[14:53]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	or maybe not... lol
[14:53]	Aleric Inglewood: 	merov is not here
[14:53]	Cummere Mayo: 	snow-12
[14:53]	Modify PTT 	button to be a simple single button without the lock
[14:53]	Gazanfer Jehangir: 	what about first time builders?
[14:53]	Jonathan Yap: 	That file should be at 1.5 now -- I wonder if it is http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-639
[14:53]	Version number 	not updated for SG 1.4 in InfoPlist.Strings
[14:53]	Cummere Mayo: 	snow-639
[14:53]	Cummere Mayo: 	just has a repeat inhibitor
[14:54]	Ardy Lay: 	Oops. Pointing SG 1.4.0's login page to a URL with a movie on it plays the movie but now I can't close the viewer. :-)
[14:54]	Ardy Lay: 	Okay, there it goes, at the end of the movie.
[14:55]	Boroondas Gupte: 	hmm
[14:55]	Oz Linden: 	what's the question re: 639 ?
[14:56]	Jonathan Yap: 	The file mentioned there is not being updated as new versions come out
[14:56]	Jonathan Yap: 	some internal process should be handling that
[14:57]	Jonathan Yap 	has no idea what uses that file though
[14:57]	Jonathan Yap: 	maybe it is a moot point
[14:58]	Merov Linden: 	Jonathan: not a moot point, that's something I forgot :(
[14:58]	Oz Linden 	also does not know, but notes that the issue does not describe what problem this causes
[14:58]	Merov Linden: 	just fixed it : svn r3585
[14:58]	Oz Linden: 	tada ... what a guy
[14:59]	Dzonatas Sol: 	=)
[14:59]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Is that the metadata that will be built into the Windows binary?
[14:59]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: What is the status on SNOW-604 ?
[14:59]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: why was SNOW-639 moved to 1.5 ?
[15:00]	Merov Linden: 	I did a bulk move Aleric, in effect pushing all 1.4 bugs (52 of them) to 1.5
[15:01]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Ok, thought so. I moved several back - I hope/assume you are notified about those?
[15:01]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Merov, I think in that bulk move, you dropped some 2.x Fix Versions when both 1.4 and 2.x were present.
[15:01]	Merov Linden: 	I am, thanks Aleric :)
[15:02]	Merov Linden: 	Boroondas: ack! that's possible!
[15:02]	Merov Linden: 	Bulk move tool is not very subtle...
[15:02]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Something is wrong withmy font: I have a horrible space in front of every 'm' :/
[15:02]	Jonathan Yap: 	Aleric did you change the size of your UI?
[15:03]	Aleric Inglewood: 	no, is at 1.000
[15:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	There's probably a space in front of every 't' too, after the change of management. :P
[15:03]	Boroondas Gupte: 	clear cache and let the viewer re-generate the glyph bitmaps :-P
[15:04]	Merov Linden: 	do a little dance around your machine too... that helps...
[15:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	It might be caused by me switching between 2.1 and 1.4. I set an environment variable to tell them NOT to use ~/.secondlife, but that is at least ignored for the chat/IM logs by 2.1 (seems a bug to me)
[15:04]	Robin Cornelius: 	dam glyph bitmaps
[15:04]	Merov Linden 	must resume work with Brad...
[15:04]	Cummere Mayo: 	kk ty merov :)
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	sorry I was busy double or even triple tasking...
[15:05]	Cummere Mayo: 	lol happens :)
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	I' pretty bad at that
[15:05]	Latif Khalifa: 	so we got Snowglobe group hooked up and everything xD
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	k, see you... later... I'm in vacation 2 weeks starting Monday!
[15:05]	Boroondas Gupte: 	does anybody have the sources for Alissa's experimental viewer that uses pango for text rendering? Is she still around, btw.?
[15:06]	Dzonatas Sol: 	Have a great vacation!!!
[15:06]	Merov Linden: 	thanks
[15:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Have fun Merov!
[15:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Have fun Merov :-)
[15:06]	Gazanfer Jehangir: 	have fun merov
[15:06]	Dzonatas Sol: 	I haven't updated Alissa's patch since 1.23?
[15:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	have a great time Merov :)
[15:06]	Jonathan Yap: 	Send us a postcard Merov
[15:07]	Jonathan Yap: 	Have fun, too :)
[15:07]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I hope merov doesn't retrun to an empty office/cuble...thought it may make a good office joke....
[15:07]	Ardy Lay: 	Hmm.. Postcards from First Life.
[15:07]	Dzonatas Sol: 	I think my last monovida branch has a version of Alissa's patch
[15:08]	Boroondas Gupte: 	oh, cool
[15:08]	Dzonatas Sol: 	that's the embedded viewer
[15:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Dzonatas, a test: Do you see this letter : א to the right of this letter ב in the next line:
[15:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	אב
[15:09]	Dzonatas Sol: 	I see them both in icesphere and in normal snowglobe
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	well, if you display the text in GTK then you get pango for free.
[15:09]	Aleric Inglewood: 	ok clearing cache
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I mean is the right-to-left ordering working?
[15:09]	Dzonatas Sol: 	do you mean bidi glyphs?
[15:09]	Dzonatas Sol: 	right-to-left works in icesphere, yes
[15:09]	Dzonatas Sol: 	it automatically switches
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	yes, both are hebre letters so א should be to the rigth of ב
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	*Hebrew
 
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