WindLight/Office Hours/2008-02-19

Torley Linden: Hey hey hey.
Torley Linden: Wow abrupt crossover.
Pastrami Linden: God this song rocks
Pastrami Linden: alright all, starting
Pastrami Linden: Please IM me your questions
Torley Linden: Hey, I hear Chariots of Fire, Vangelis is awesome.
Pastrami Linden: IM away!!!
Pastrami Linden: ...or play sound clips
Gearsawe Stonecutter: testing
Gearsawe Stonecutter: NM
Spaceman Opus: trying to repro the bug I need to ask about....never works when I can think of it :-)
Pastrami Linden: anyone, any questions?
Zante Zapedzki: :]
BigPapi Linden hears crickets
Pastrami Linden: I seriously have no questions right now
Pastrami Linden: anyone?
BigPapi Linden: Bueller?
Detour Sideways: I think everyone is chatting in the firstlook group
BigPapi Linden: Bueller?
Spaceman Opus: I gotta remember to get a screenshot before the next windight hours
Pastrami Linden: [8:08] Detour Sideways: ok heres mine. A water fix was mentioned, but honestly, and I dont want to put anyone down, it looks worse than ever
Pastrami Linden: Detour, PLEASE post a screenshot here
Pastrami Linden: I've been wondering what people are talking about
Pastrami Linden: since water on my machine looks the same
Torley Linden: If there's an open Issue Tracker # where you've attached screenshots, *even better*.
Detour Sideways: ok Ill have to screenshot it
Detour Sideways: but basically it looks like there is one layer that doesnt move, and looks rough
Pastrami Linden would kill for a screenshot of what people mean
Torley Linden: OMG, "Halcali" was made a last name? I like that music act so much.
Pastrami Linden: any other questions?
Pastrami Linden: [8:11] Linegirl McMillan would like to hear a general comment on performance in relation to Havoc and windlight - will it be "goodbye lag"?
Pastrami Linden: no
Pastrami Linden: lag, as most resis define it, is caused by a number of factors
BigPapi Linden: Too many causes of lag
BigPapi Linden: WL and Havok will help with some rendering caused lag
Pastrami Linden: they will *help*, certainly
Pastrami Linden: hehe
BigPapi Linden: and some physics simulator caused lag
Pastrami Linden: BigPapi jinx
norritt Xi: In many cases its more the grid thatn the viewer itself causing lag
Pastrami Linden: right
Torley Linden: Always important to be specific about "lag", it's like saying "I'm sick" to a doctor... to make a diagnosis and proper treatment, more info helps.
Pastrami Linden: right
Pastrami Linden: there are two major categories of lag-
Jeremy Linden notices that Detour Sideways is shiny through an invisiprim. Whoa.
Detour Sideways: oh yeah thats cool, we got shiny under invisiprims now
Pastrami Linden: if stuff is "bumpy" or jittery, that's server lag
Detour Sideways: if its a mistake/bug, I suggest you leave it alone
Torley Linden: Detour Sideways' avatar reminds me of Qarl Linden. :)
Pastrami Linden: if your overall view is slow, that's rendering lag
Detour Sideways: qarl asked me if Id sell it to him lol
Torley Linden: Hehehe.
Pastrami Linden: hahahhaah
Yenwen Fall: any plan on a dx version in the pipes?
Zante Zapedzki: no speedtree in that piccy ;[
Detour Sideways: ok now, see those lines in the water
Jeremy Linden sees very highly repeated vertical lines in the water.
Pastrami Linden: Okay Detour
Detour Sideways: they dont move... they look rough to me gives the water the appearance of not being water
Pastrami Linden: it's the same problem I have
Pastrami Linden: if that's the case, we're on it
Detour Sideways: the water didnt have this in your first releases
Pastrami Linden: yeah don't worry about it- I know what it is
Detour Sideways: also, see the highlighted/bloom parts
Detour Sideways: they looked smoother
Detour Sideways: not by much
Pastrami Linden: those I like
Jeremy Linden gave you Snapshot : Brampton Linden Stage, Brampton (111, 156, 26).
Pastrami Linden: :)
Detour Sideways: but generally a bit smoother
Detour Sideways: I like it too
Pastrami Linden: the first issue will be fixed
Pastrami Linden: trust me
Detour Sideways: ok
Pastrami Linden: yeah it looks like "cracker" water
Pastrami Linden: moreso in motion
Detour Sideways: and when you upload a screen shot as 512x512 etc if you have a non sqaure window for sl... the images are stretched
Detour Sideways: you cant keep aspect ratio in screenshots now
Pastrami Linden: that's a known issue
Detour Sideways: ok
Pastrami Linden: anyway, please IM me any further ones
Pastrami Linden: [8:15] Yenwen Fall: dl you know of a way to nudge the u/v seting in the editor in smaller then .1?
Pastrami Linden: Torley?
Pastrami Linden: Jeremy?
Torley Linden: Hm, I don't know.
Jeremy Linden: u/v?
Torley Linden: Texture repeats.
Yenwen Fall: would help a lot if we could.
Torley Linden: What's your intended use for making it smaller, Yenwen?
Torley Linden: Precision of alignment?
Yenwen Fall: the ofset of the texture.
Jeremy Linden: Oh. Hmm. I thought you could do smaller than that...
Yenwen Fall: yes
Taarna Welles: brb
Jeremy Linden: You just have to enter it manually :-)
Torley Linden: The smallest actually looks like 0.001...
Torley Linden: Yeah, what Jeremy said...
Torley Linden: is that still not small enough for ya?
Epocx Timeless: hi there
Gearsawe Stonecutter: like with some other 3D programs should down shift to make larger adjsutmetns and ctrl to make smaller
Yenwen Fall: i would like to set the numbers by useing the mouse wheel at .01 or .001 for fine tuneing.
Torley Linden: Yenwen, that might be worth filing as a new feature request @ http://jira.secondlife.com and see who else also thinks it's a good idea. =)
Jeremy Linden thinks it's a good idea :-)
Yenwen Fall: ok will do. i am sure anyone who works with textureing would love it.
Jeremy Linden: It would be great for any of the prim parameters, I think.
Gearsawe Stonecutter: At least that is how it is in 3dsMax. you have levels of adjsutment
Detour Sideways: I wish we hgad a precision mode for values... like with scripts I can set X to 1.00389.. cant in the UI
Detour Sideways: gets rounded to 3 decimals
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/19040 
Yenwen Fall: it would also be nice if we had a way to grab a texture by handels to adjust. i am spoiled with working in maya.
Torley Linden: It'd be good for an "advanced" mode, more novice builders might not find that level of precision necessary.
Torley Linden: But it definitely has its uses.
Detour Sideways: it might reveal the sl primdrift ;)
Pastrami Linden: alright, moving along (sorry, got a lot of questions!) just file those as new feature requests
Pastrami Linden: [8:16] Trish Mikazuki: Q: Any plans for future W/L plant life in addition to the ones we already have in our libraries?
Yenwen Fall: ok will do.
Gearsawe Stonecutter: I though prim drift was gone. becasue of Havok 4
Pastrami Linden: Yes Trish
Detour Sideways: nope
Pastrami Linden: but we're going to do more stability work in the next few months
Trish Mikazuki: Awsome, I can not wait... :)
Pastrami Linden: features->stability->features->stability
Lina Pussycat: i know you guys have speed tree is that what is being implemented?
Pastrami Linden: we really want to get that crash rate down
Hevenz Vansant: stability work? surely you jest and tease us :P
Pastrami Linden: most likely, yes
Trish Mikazuki: I was hoping to get more linden plants :)
Pastrami Linden: what's a Linden plant?>
Pastrami Linden: :)
Lina Pussycat: Speed tree would be a great addition to vegetation :)
Pastrami Linden: Like a plant that makes Lindens
Lina Pussycat: lol
Lina Pussycat: well there is a Linden Tree thats a real thing :)
Spaceman Opus: A Linden that works at Blizzard as a Double Agent?
Taarna Welles: back
Pastrami Linden: lol
Pastrami Linden: anyway,
Pastrami Linden: yes, in the mid-future
Pastrami Linden: [8:19] norritt Xi: Normally I'd consider this to be a grid/asset/simulator issue on the other had it was mostly me experiencing the creation of ghost prims when rezzing objects during the last couple of days using the WL viewer. Ghost prims mean I rez an object work on it take it to inventory or delete it, it visually disappears is also not editable any more but you still physically collide with that object. Is there any chance this problem accumulates with the Firstlook client. Has anyone else had similar problems?
Gearsawe Stonecutter: Linden trees don't have those Alpha sort problems. As if they are 1bit mask texture. when might we get to use this type of tech.
Jeremy Linden: I've heard about this recently, enough so that I've been considering writing a knowledge base article on it.
Detour Sideways: Ive seen this too, deletting the object leaves it on your clients screen, but its actually gone
Detour Sideways: if you relog its actually gone
Pastrami Linden: anyone know if it's WL specific?
norritt Xi: Detour: Well its visually gone but you still collide then
Detour Sideways: Ive only had it in WL so far but that doent mean it is
Torley Linden: That particular description isn't WL-specific...
Trish Mikazuki: Yes, Norritt, I have had this happen too. It seems to be a server issue not reseting the physical assests but I do not think it is only with W/L
Jeremy Linden: I don't think so, Pastrami. It sounds like a physics issue.
Detour Sideways: I couldnt colide
Hevenz Vansant: i havent seen this happen in the RC releases
Torley Linden: I've seen it date further back... and region restarts usually help.
Detour Sideways: it was gone as in phantom
Spaceman Opus: stiill on the screen but deleted isn't just WL
Torley Linden: It's a server-side problem.
norritt Xi: We have to restart the SIM to get rid of that
Lina Pussycat: its happened to me on a few clients......
Torley Linden: Andrew knows more.
Pastrami Linden: alright, we'll call it non-WL for now
Torley Linden: (Andrew Linden.)
Detour Sideways: if you can collide then its a server issue
Spaceman Opus: a flight a few hundred meters up usually helps too
Lina Pussycat: i think its something server side because as torley said a region restart help
norritt Xi: Okay
Pastrami Linden: [8:19] Detour Sideways: do you think we will ever be able to set shiny as a percentage... right now if you look at my av its on low but is too much for "shiny wood". It would be nice if we could specify 10% shiny instead of presets low/med/high etc
Pastrami Linden: yes Detour
Detour Sideways: my problem was purely client side though
BigPapi Linden: Alpha masking is on our controllable features list, Gearsawe
Pastrami Linden: take everything you know about materials and THROW it out the window!
Pastrami Linden: we're going to re-do the material system,
Detour Sideways: ok :)
Pastrami Linden: sing a robust shader framework
Lina Pussycat: great bigpapi :) thats good to hear
Trish Mikazuki: Whoo hoo :)
BigPapi Linden: Pastrami: It'll be done in parallel.
BigPapi Linden: Current materials will stay the same
Gearsawe Stonecutter: oh?
Pastrami Linden: so you can do anything you can do with other 3d apps/engines
Pastrami Linden: well, alsmot anything
Detour Sideways: well then maybe we can specify our own "shiny relection maps" ;)
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot
BigPapi Linden: But you'll get a more robust material system that you can use.
Pastrami Linden: that's a good word
Pastrami Linden: yes Detour
Detour Sideways: that would be cool
Detour Sideways: :)
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot of the lowlands rides into battle atop his noble steed
Lina Pussycat: thats exciting to me for sure as i work with textures all to often hehe
Gearsawe Stonecutter: Sort of something like UT2000 material system?
Yenwen Fall: would be nice if we could use true bump maps to.
Detour Sideways: I guess this is just an idea for now, you havent started working on right?
Pastrami Linden: the Viking long ship hurls missiles a'flame but tis not enough to stop fair-hearted Alsmot
Lina Pussycat: i'd love to see normal maps for objects to :) I know you guys have kinda used them already for the water in WL
BigPapi Linden: You'll get all that and more
Yenwen Fall: wooohoooo!
Lina Pussycat: great!!
Pastrami Linden: I am no longer answering WL questions but am a faithful minstrel telling the tales of my lord
Pastrami Linden: true sighted Alsmot
Hevenz Vansant: lol
Spaceman Opus: lol
Gearsawe Stonecutter passes out
Pastrami Linden: alrighty let's see what's accumulated
BigPapi Linden: BUT you won't just be able to place it willy nilly on everything, else the "lag" would SKYROCKET
Torley Linden: The question queue, it's like a net o' fish!
Torley Linden: "With great power comes great responsibility."
Pastrami Linden: [8:24] Epocx Timeless: I couldnt find out about it in the jira, so i have a huge problem in all windlight releases with flickering local lightsources is it known and will it be fixed? its a huge problem with taking pictures... [8:27] Epocx Timeless: why dont you build the windlight on a "stable" release of the Viewer?
Yenwen Fall: we going to be able to texture sclupt objects without makeing custom maps?
Pastrami Linden: Epocx, in answer to your first one
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/19041 
Pastrami Linden: by flicker, you mean the light as it's cast on objects?
Lina Pussycat: well a normal map shouldnt do to much more damage then say a sculpt since its a similar tech/theory
Pastrami Linden: like a strobe
Detour Sideways: epocx its because you have about 4 lights attached to yourself right now
BigPapi Linden: Not true LIiina
Pastrami Linden: hahahahah
BigPapi Linden: Lina I mean
Epocx Timeless: sometimes the lightsource turns compleatly out
Detour Sideways: so you are using up all hardware lights available
Pastrami Linden: thanks Detour
Epocx Timeless: tied varios settings
Hevenz Vansant: isnt the limitation on HL lighting 6 lights?
BigPapi Linden: Hevenz, depends on HW
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot makes you a minor lord of his fallow lands
BigPapi Linden: and whether or not you are using shaders
Hevenz Vansant: true
Detour Sideways: epocx try making a face light with only 1 prim
BigPapi Linden: Doing more lights in the shaders results in a more complicated shader
Detour Sideways: or 2
BigPapi Linden: and not all hw can support the full number of lights,
Lina Pussycat: BigPapi i've seen this happen on Windlight as well..... But it doesnt happen in the standard client
BigPapi Linden: in which case we drop down the number of lights for that hw
Epocx Timeless: aha, feels like its blink how i turn so that makes sense
BigPapi Linden: The release viewer doesn't really use shaders for much
Epocx Timeless: but i encountered it high in the air i remember too
BigPapi Linden: So it wouldn't show up as much.
Lina Pussycat: i imagine it has to do with more local lights being used by windlight by default then?
BigPapi Linden: Face-lights are BAD by the way.
BigPapi Linden: They currently use up ONE of the lights from everybody around you and from the scene
Detour Sideways: then gives us bullbright on skins... as percentages ;)
Detour Sideways: full bright
Torley Linden: Mmmm another popular feature request.
BigPapi Linden: SO just 6 people with face lights means that all the lights meticulously placed on a build will not show up.
Gearsawe Stonecutter: and some face light system use more than jsut one light
Torley Linden: BigPapi, that sounds like grounds for a comic!
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot's faithful steed is hearby known as bullbright the brave
Lina Pussycat: bigpapi the face lights usually consist of 3 lights i've not seen many with one =/
Epocx Timeless: haha
Detour Sideways: its obvious some people want their faces lit up, so give the people what they want, another way
BigPapi Linden: That's horrible.
BigPapi Linden: Honestly. Horrible
Lina Pussycat: and then you have people running around with boots that can turn ground white at night
Lina Pussycat: like bleached white
Lina Pussycat: i've seen skirts do it to
Detour Sideways: its not just face lights, lots of attachments use lights
Torley Linden: I can see someone making a poster outta BigPapi's words now... it'll be like Michio Kaku's commentary on the Standard Theory, only more Second Lifey!
Epocx Timeless: sounds to me like a matter of hardware recorces
Gearsawe Stonecutter: Might friend had a bowl of cherries with over 20 lights. lol
Torley Linden: Er, I meant Standard Model... (context: http://www.mkaku.org/img/Poster2_large.jpg )
Pastrami Linden: ahahah
Epocx Timeless: but on the normal viewer i dont get such flicker problems.. is it cause of the more complexer WL lightning?
BigPapi Linden: Probably a combination of reasons.
BigPapi Linden: You probably are on hw that can't support the full number of lights in the shader (so you're getting less lights)
Epocx Timeless: ok thanks hope this will be adressed...
Hevenz Vansant: well remember that the lights area area specific, thats why i use my studio 750 meters up in the air to avoid that problem and to ensure that only my lights are being used by the hardware:0
Epocx Timeless: got a x1300
Epocx Timeless: idk ;)
BigPapi Linden: And/Or we do better "nearest number of lights" calculations
Hevenz Vansant: oops meant for an Im :p
Pastrami Linden: [8:27] Gearsawe Stonecutter: Linden trees don't have those Alpha sort problems. As if they are 1bit mask texture. when might we get to use this type of tech for textures?
Pastrami Linden: see above ;)
Hevenz Vansant: :p
Pastrami Linden: new materials system
Gearsawe Stonecutter: yes thank you
BigPapi Linden: Which would give you more accurate lighting, but with some flickering as you move about especially when combined with the first things.
Pastrami Linden: [8:37] Gearsawe Stonecutter: anyway to fade between the near by light to reduce the light flicker turn off/on problem.
Gearsawe Stonecutter: jsut as I IM you that you were tlaking about
Detour Sideways: the fact is 8 lights arent enough really
Pastrami Linden: hehe
Lina Pussycat: well if you guys are implementing speed tree.... They'd be pretty much the same as the Linden based vegetation as well :) Just there would be alot more to work from
BigPapi Linden: Yeah, stop putting lights on avatars and that will get better.
Hevenz Vansant: heheh
BigPapi Linden: I'm only half joking
Epocx Timeless: hehehe
Pastrami Linden: yeah I think after WL being the wild a few months
Gearsawe Stonecutter: yes 8 light are enough. but many people dont under how to use them.
Pastrami Linden: avatars will start getting made brighter by default
Epocx Timeless: i make you a 8-version facelight for ya ;)
Detour Sideways: if the current lights worked better, eg letting us light up a room with 1 light it might help...
Detour Sideways: or people might wear 8 of those super lights on their face... who knows heh
Torley Linden: Detour, you've already tried increasing the radius and intensity?
Detour Sideways: yeah of course
Detour Sideways: they dont have much range
Pastrami Linden: [8:32] norritt Xi: Is there any special reason that the WL viewer doesn't offer an option to configure the Anti-Aliasing settings?
Pastrami Linden: it will soon
Pastrami Linden: FSAA
Pastrami Linden: :)
Lina Pussycat: Direction Lighting would be nice to some more control over then possibly making them fit a certain shape or what have you so that we may be able to actually focus them into a room and not have them shine outside or what have you
Pastrami Linden: Lina- you mean..... shadowing?!!!!
Pastrami Linden: :)
Detour Sideways: no directional lights arent the same ;)
Lina Pussycat: not exactly pastrami....
Pastrami Linden: no I know just kidding
BigPapi Linden: Actually arbitrarily "shaping" a light is not really possible.
Detour Sideways: think of spot lights
Lina Pussycat: yeah more like spotlights
Pastrami Linden: yeah you can't do it with any technique less intensive than shadowing
BigPapi Linden: Spot lights work because a cone is trivial to compute in real time
Detour Sideways: that more like volumetric lights
Hevenz Vansant: kinetic lighting :p
BigPapi Linden: any non-cone spotlight shape is just not going to happen
Lina Pussycat: atm though the thing isnt really a cone though its more of a sphere...
Epocx Timeless: stopped dreaming about that bigpapi....
Epocx Timeless: would be too good ;)
BigPapi Linden: Yes, I mean non-circular derived shapes
Pastrami Linden: [8:40] Hevenz Vansant: im sure this has already been adressed but will physical objects in WL have a more realistic effect on blocking the sun, i.e. a solid wall without tranparencies, will be able to block the sun from casting light on an interior?
BigPapi Linden: deriving a shape out of a radius in graphics is easy
BigPapi Linden: Which gives you circles, cones, and spheres
Pastrami Linden: Hevenz, shadows will do that
Pastrami Linden: once we get to them
Pastrami Linden: :)
BigPapi Linden: Other shapes for lights will not happen.
Hevenz Vansant: well get crackin :p
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot does not take your comments lightly
Lina Pussycat: yeah ok pastrami just answered a way that would help :)
Lina Pussycat: i was mentioning that more because atm you have no real control over indoor/outdoor
Detour Sideways: you might need to hire some new graphics guys for the shadows :)
Lina Pussycat: lights shine through objects
Hevenz Vansant: ha
BigPapi Linden: Yup. That's shadowing all right.
Pastrami Linden: [8:32] Yenwen Fall: is there a way to use anti alising with your video drivers? does not seem to work on my system. [8:33] Yenwen Fall: is there a way to use the water shader on our own objects? [8:41] Yenwen Fall: will any work be done on the hand off between sims? when crossing over you drop down very far if you are flying or in a boat and such.
BigPapi Linden: Trust us that's extremely high on our "WANT" list
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen- 1. soon within SL
Detour Sideways: Im using an nvidia card and can set fsaa in the driver control panel
Pastrami Linden: 2. Not yet, once we have a new materials system you will be able to
Pastrami Linden: 3. no idea- not my realm- Torley/Jeremy
Pastrami Linden: ?
BigPapi Linden: Pastrami: 2) is a maybe
Torley Linden: Havok 4 may help with (3)...
BigPapi Linden: We're going to try.
Detour Sideways: sim crossing isnt improved in h4
Torley Linden: it's a longtime problem tho. I know it's still one of the hottest open issues on the Issue Tracker.
BigPapi Linden: But it might not be possible to let anyone just place the water shader on any object
Jeremy Linden: I haven't heard anything about region handoffs, but as Torley said it's not going to be a WindLight fix :-)
Detour Sideways: so dont hold your breath
Yenwen Fall: great. now if i can find a place to drive my boat without it geting put back in my inv i will be all set :)
Hevenz Vansant: when do you expect wider usage of the havok 4 engine btw
Torley Linden: Hevenz, it's happening now, gradually. Rolling out in phases.
Pastrami Linden: queue empty, btw
Hevenz Vansant: nice
Torley Linden: Havok 4 info goodness: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/02/13/refresh-of-havok4-beta-preview-and-490-early-adopter-with-14-fixes-2008-02-13/
Hevenz Vansant: ty:p
Hevenz Vansant: did you guys fix the blitz orbit causing havok 4 sims to crash yet :p
Hevenz Vansant runs
Pastrami Linden: [8:46] Detour Sideways: will you run some sort of beta like the h4 sims where we get access to estate light control? [8:46] Detour Sideways: id volenteer mine to start using that :)
Pastrami Linden: TBH Detour, I think we'd just roll it out
Pastrami Linden: I don't see us needing a beta for it
BigPapi Linden: yeah
Detour Sideways: famous last words
Spaceman Opus: hehe
Pastrami Linden: no Detour,
Pastrami Linden: famous last words would be,
Detour Sideways: ")
Pastrami Linden: we don't need a beta, and our release will work the first time
BigPapi Linden: "what could go wrong with just rolling it out?"
Epocx Timeless: bye and thx for hearing! your vid-tuts rock torley!!!!!
Detour Sideways: any idea when we'll see the adnavced light control on the estate panels?
Torley Linden: Oh you're welcome Epocx, thanks for visiting with us and for watching 'em! =)
Pastrami Linden: next few months,
Pastrami Linden: [8:47] Lina Pussycat: Will Nimble be added to the Windlight Lineup at any point in the future?
Pastrami Linden: a far point
Pastrami Linden: :)
Pastrami Linden: it's just too shiny to work on right now when we have so much stability work to do
BigPapi Linden: Yeah. It definitely will, but more important things need to be done first.
Pastrami Linden: [8:47] Yenwen Fall: can you make it so if your in a vehicle that it wont disaper if you hit a no object zone that is set on a lot. [8:48] Yenwen Fall: vehicles seem useless to me atm.
Lina Pussycat: :) just curious big fluffy white clouds seem interesting hehe
Hevenz Vansant: lol
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen, you should ask those questions at Sidewinder's office hours
Pastrami Linden: let me get them
Yenwen Fall: ok.
BigPapi Linden: We're rendering people... :)
Jeremy Linden: Hm. Vehicles count as selected/sat upon objects, which usually makes them immune to object limits and such...
Pastrami Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
Pastrami Linden: BigPapi, we're also rendering terrain, skies, and plants
BigPapi Linden: haha. that too. ;)
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot deigns to amuse the masses on occasion with a light-hearted pun
Yenwen Fall: who do i talk to about lsl functions i would like to see?
Pastrami Linden: before hammering down an iron fist of feudal law
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot is tough, but fair
Jeremy Linden parses that as "Pastrami almost deigns to amuse the masses on occasion with a light-hearted pun."
Torley Linden: Haha.
Lina Pussycat: auto return still returns objects in the vehicle case though i've never had it returned in a no build area unless autoreturn was on
Torley Linden: Yenwen, generally speaking, I'd start with reporting it on the Issue Tracker and then garnering support for it... then mentioning it at a related office hour/issue triage.
Torley Linden: E.g., see WindLight LSL glow for a VERY good example...
Torley Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3114
Torley Linden: Note the discussion in there.
Pastrami Linden: [8:51] Detour Sideways: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3209 << Im seeing this problem of sim edges and corner of the water having tears. You can see the triangles disspearing in wireframe mode [8:51] Detour Sideways: it only happens if you are like 600M up in the sky and look down
Torley Linden: And number of votes which helped indicate its significance.
Torley Linden: Detour, are you seeing the same as the pictures attached to that issue?
Detour Sideways: yes exactly
Detour Sideways: I think it may only happen on sims with no nighbours
Detour Sideways: so a single private estate
Detour Sideways: and only when you are up high
Pastrami Linden: Torley do we have this internalized?
Torley Linden: If you could please confirm that and leave a comment that'd be great, and no Pastrami, but I'll import it.
Pastrami Linden: thanks Tors
Detour Sideways: I cant log into jira for some reason
Torley Linden: Detour, error message or another problem? Details?
Detour Sideways: Ill have to try again and see
Detour Sideways: last time it was something about the account not existing
Torley Linden: OK... !
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot is in a long standing trade alliance with Tor of Leys, viceroy of the nearby lands
Torley Linden: Hahaha.
Torley Linden: =^_^=
Pastrami Linden: I am so writing the Typo Fantasies
Pastrami Linden: bullbright is huffing for adventure
BigPapi Linden: Just as long as they don't become slash fic
Detour Sideways: heh
Torley Linden: LOL BigPapi!
Lina Pussycat: lol
Jeremy Linden: The Typo Fatnasies?
Torley Linden: I've seen some Second Life slashfic.
Torley Linden: It was awkward.
Pastrami Linden: Tor of Leys shoots Alsmot a furtive glance
Pastrami Linden: "did he see me?"
Pastrami Linden: wonders Tors
Torley Linden: ;)
Pastrami Linden: alright, back to questions
Pastrami Linden: :)
Jeremy Linden: http://community.livejournal.com/second_lifers/298735.html
Jeremy Linden: Orientation Island fanfic.
Detour Sideways: so about the sim corner tearing
Pastrami Linden: Detour, we will import it and process it
Detour Sideways: is it possible for someone to test it on a single sim
Detour Sideways: ok thanks
Pastrami Linden: sure
Pastrami Linden: [8:55] Gearsawe Stonecutter: Not really WL related. But the randomly created texture that fade from one ground texture to another is kind of frustrating. Any way to implement a random seed number? It is annnoying when one person sees all grass on the ground while the other sees all sand.
Pastrami Linden: agreed,
Pastrami Linden: but that will probably happen around the same time as new materials
Pastrami Linden: [8:53] Yenwen Fall: any plan on HD lighting? [8:54] Yenwen Fall: sorry HDR. [8:56] Yenwen Fall: is there a way to set your FOV so you can simulate a zoom lens?
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen, by HDR, what do you mean?
Detour Sideways: I wish we could at least paint that in greyscale on the .raw file we upload... like 0,0,0 could be texture 1 and 255,255,255 could be texture 4 with fades in between
Yenwen Fall: high dinamic range lighting.
Pastrami Linden: I know- do you mean actual
Pastrami Linden: adjustment of brightness of materials relative to one another
Pastrami Linden: or a sky that blooms?
Yenwen Fall: guess i mean simulated. sky bloom would be nice.
Pastrami Linden: Detour, points noted- will examine in materials system rewrite
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen, we can do that fairly easily-
Pastrami Linden: in fact, try this
Pastrami Linden: Debug Settings
Detour Sideways: hipihi gives oyu some nice control over terrain. Since they ripped sl off maybe you could look at their ideas too
Torley Linden: Hahaha!
Detour Sideways: :)
Pastrami Linden: set RenderGlowMinLuminance to 0.2
Lina Pussycat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDR_lighting for a bit more info pastrami :)
Detour Sideways: by terrain I mean terrain texturing
Torley Linden: I haven't seen copying that blatant since Franklin ripped off Apple. ;)
Pastrami Linden: set RenderGlowSTrength to 0.55
Detour Sideways: you havent looked at the content in sl then torley
Pastrami Linden: TA-DUM!!
Pastrami Linden: HDR
Pastrami Linden: "quotes"
Dominique Kuhn: wow lots of people here
Dominique Kuhn: hiyah all
Torley Linden: Welcome to our WindLight office hour, Dominique! The end of it, anyway!
Yuna Republic: Hi Dom
Lina Pussycat: good luck actually logging into HiPiHi =/ i've tried... People complain about SL loading slow... HipiHi runs at like a snails pace.....
Pastrami Linden: Yenwen did you do all this?
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot demands IT!
Detour Sideways: hipihi ran great for me
Yenwen Fall: woo. thas a bit high. but i will mess with it. never played with the debuger.
Detour Sideways: but it has been a while
Pastrami Linden: yeah, see- you can do that kind of stuff
Yenwen Fall: cool.
Lina Pussycat: maybe its fixed now but im lucky if i ever even saw my avatar...
Pastrami Linden shoots down HDR in 90% of the cases because it's not really what it says it is,
Pastrami Linden: and is overkill/abused
Pastrami Linden: it's the new lens flare
Lina Pussycat: yep as with most things hehe
Pastrami Linden: HDR is all about exposure, NOT bloom
Pastrami Linden: and frankly, you can hack the exposure easily sans HDR
Pastrami Linden: anyway, we're about to end off here
Yenwen Fall: how about the FOV thing. would like to be able to make a camara script
Pastrami Linden: Torley- you know about that?
Torley Linden: Yenwen, what's your intended use case(s)?
Jeremy Linden: Like ctrl+0?
Torley Linden: Are you familiar with FollowCam? Or Joystick Flycam?
Yenwen Fall: no not realy.
Torley Linden: OK, I recommend looking into both...
Torley Linden: for example, http://rpgstats.com/wiki/index.php?title=FollowCam
Torley Linden: and Client menu > Joystick Flycam.
Torley Linden: More info about that is here:
Yenwen Fall: ah ctrl+0 works well. how do i get out of it. lol
Torley Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Flycam
Torley Linden: Ctrl-8
Torley Linden: ;)
Torley Linden: View menu > Zoom In and Out.
Pastrami Linden: ctrl-9 resets it
Jeremy Linden: Right.
Pastrami Linden: ctrl 8 zooms out
Pastrami Linden: ctrl 0 zooms in
Torley Linden: It's kind of underused, but Flycam will let you gradiate between those levels smoothly.
Yenwen Fall: cool thanks.
Torley Linden: So if you have a joystick/gamepad, even a 4-axis one, put it to use... have fun.
Pastrami Linden: alright all, Alsmot has a date with a mutton chop and a chalice of grog
Torley Linden: There are lots of great Flycam demo vids on YouTube.com too.
Torley Linden: GROG! Reminds me of Monkey Island!
Pastrami Linden: ;)
Torley Linden: And insult swordfighting!
Torley Linden: Ahhh classic games.
Lina Pussycat: lol
Pastrami Linden: Alsmot shall not be compated to your piddling "games"
Jeremy Linden: Heh. Someone needs to make a vote-based insult swordfighting game in SL.
Pastrami Linden: compared
Yenwen Fall: any way to save my debug settings to a file?
Pastrami Linden: compated is what Alsmot does to his fair lass
Lina Pussycat: One last silly question :P What exactly is Torley?
Detour Sideways: ok bye guys, looking forward to seeing every bug fixed in the next release ;)
Pastrami Linden: a concept
Pastrami Linden: a lover
Pastrami Linden: a fighter
Torley Linden: Yenwen, they should be in settings.xml ;) Or settings_windlight.xml in your SecondLife userdata folder.
Pastrami Linden: an artist
Torley Linden: Lina: Your Neighbor Totorleyo!
Torley Linden: Hahahaaaaaaaaa.
Pastrami Linden: A Torley is all of these
Torley Linden: I was so tripped out upon learning Orson Scott Card made a number of those swordfight insults.
Yenwen Fall: thanks.
Pastrami Linden: and none at the same time
Torley Linden: Also see: http://torley.com/a-guide-to-torleys ;)
Lina Pussycat: hehe
Pastrami Linden: AHHAHAHAH
Torley Linden: And thanks for coming to our WL office hours!
BigPapi Linden: That's all lies
Pastrami Linden: and enduring my keyboard-induced flights of fancy
Yenwen Fall: thanks for the hard work guys.
BigPapi Linden: Torley is an intelligent being that just sprung up on the Second Life Grid
BigPapi Linden: and now pretends to be human.
Lina Pussycat: thought it looked familiar :) was why i asked hehe
BigPapi Linden: But we all know better.
Torley Linden: Heehehe Lina, I'm a moderate Miyazaki fan, getting stronger in my passion.
Torley Linden: *whirs and clicks*
norritt Xi: Yes WL has become really nice very well done
BigPapi Linden: He does things way too quickly
Yenwen Fall: on last thing. is there a page that shows debug setting and what they do?
BigPapi Linden: That's what gives away his true nature. he's too efficient.
Torley Linden: Yenwen, each has a description.
Torley Linden: I do have a page where I list some of my faves.
Yenwen Fall: ok thanks.
Torley Linden: It's not comprehensive but it's OK!
Torley Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Torley_Linden/Debug_Settings
BigPapi Linden: The debug settings chooser itself should list a description for each debug setting.
Torley Linden: Photography/camera-related ones are on: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Torley_Linden/Snapshot_tips
Lina Pussycat: yep it does :)
Torley Linden: I wish you all well and take care until next time!
Yenwen Fall: thanks.
Pastrami Linden: later!
Taarna Welles: thanx, that is what I needed too :) a page about the Debug settings
Pastrami Linden: COME BULLBRIGHT
Pastrami Linden: AWAY WE RIDE!
Torley Linden: If you missed any part of this, the transcript will be listed here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight in a few days!
Torley Linden: INTO WINDLIGHT SUNSETS!