Doc Team/2011-01-12

== Transcript ==
[13:01]	:	hey Jeremy
[13:01]	 	has pinged you.
[13:01]	:	ah, there he is
[13:01]	:	Hello, everyone!
[13:02]	:	anyone know if the SL2-based viewrs ditched that bug that causes your av to never get past the puffy-white-cloud form when the viwer is placed onto the leftward monitor?
[13:02]	:	/me does not know.
[13:02]	:	That sounds like the old texture loading issue, though.
[13:02]	:	It seems to effect all TPVs tho.....
[13:03]	:	You either show up as a cloud, or your av shows up naked, pitch black, and wiht a transparent head.
[13:04]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Second_Life_and_multiple_monitors
[13:04]	:	That's about all I know on the subject :-)
[13:05]	:	ã‹¡
[13:05]	:	ty
[13:06]	:	not a lot of ppes here today
[13:06]	:	*peeps
[13:06]	:	Yeah, I wonder why...
[13:07]	:	/me is snowed in and working from home today. Big snowstorm!
[13:07]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Mui Lagy
[13:07]	:	Starting in a few weeks, we'll actually have lots of documentation stuff to talk about, but I've got to stay quiet about it for now :-)
[13:08]	:	awwww
[13:08]	:	ã‹¡
[13:08]	:	cool
[13:09]	:	I notice the rules about OHs in general seems to have changed a bit, but I don't know anything beyond that about it, really. That, and that some of the Lindens have had to stop doing their personal OHs. oO
[13:09]	:	can i rez here
[13:09]	:	to work on a script
[13:09]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Lindens are supposed to get training in Spin, to continue their office hours
[13:10]	:	Yeah, there's been some communication policy stuff. This office hour is still in question, too, but I think I can make a good argument for keeping it!
[13:10]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me thinks it violates Corporate Transparency
[13:10]	:	It would be a mistake for them NOT to continue this OH.
[13:10]	:	don't cancel office hours :(
[13:11]	:	But, when the bleep have LL ever listened to what their customers ask? Oo
[13:11]	 	(arawn.spitteler): We could still meet on Jeremys own time
[13:11]	 	has pinged you.
[13:12]	:	Well at the same time, LL cant listen to everyone
[13:12]	:	there has to be a universal demand for something
[13:12]	:	Define "universeal demand"
[13:13]	:	SL is a world wide game, If you have 1,000 ppl wanting 1,000 deifferent things
[13:13]	:	Well, if anything happens, it won't be my call. I'll be sure to update the office hours page and leave a sign here if anything happens.
[13:13]	:	you cant provide all thos request
[13:13]	:	or you dig a grave for yourself
[13:13]	:	Whoops, redundant wording!
[13:13]	:	If you mean that 100% of the ppl on the grid have to ask for it before they'll consider it, then nothing requestedwill ever get made.
[13:13]	:	not 100%
[13:13]	:	think of the tea party in RL
[13:13]	:	Now now, lets keep pollyticks OUT of this!
[13:14]	:	no politics
[13:14]	:	simple concept of it
[13:14]	:	they got to gether dicussed hte issue
[13:14]	:	and if you agreed you joined in the push to show why
[13:14]	:	so you want a change in SL , you get groups together to dicuss how to show its worth it for LL to do
[13:15]	:	and the benefits from such
[13:15]	:	Ah, okay..... thought you were going to say something disparaging about them. I appologise.
[13:15]	:	Heh. Good sentiment, but I think maybe the original Boston Tea Party isn't the best analogy :-)
[13:15]	:	no one said orginal
[13:15]	:	:P
[13:16]	:	No, I thiknk he's talking about the Tea Party of today...
[13:16]	:	correct
[13:16]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Is Jia laggy, today? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24406?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
[13:17]	 	(arawn.spitteler): If you want change, in SL, you have to organize the minority to overrule the majority
[13:18]	:	but who are the minority and who are the majority? oO
[13:20]	 	(arawn.spitteler): The majority are the ones who wonder where the priorities are, at Lindn LAbs
[13:20]	:	Well I think we all wounder that
[13:20]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me thinks hte Web might be jammed
[13:20]	:	It's jsut people like you A that aleart us to the actual communication of such
[13:21]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Who's the elephant?
[13:21]	:	But at same time people are here to have a good time so they dont want to really worry about what LL is doing
[13:21]	:	I think there's a bear floating in front of KITILA.
[13:21]	:	for future reference they care about what they just did
[13:21]	:	There is
[13:21]	:	its a Eco-Life bear
[13:21]	:	Trying to fix its stats
[13:23]	:	Ahem. Anyway, welcome, folks who haven't been here before.
[13:24]	:	This is Documentation Office Hours, where we (are supposed to) discuss matters related to Second Life's online help systems. Feel free to ask other questions as well, since documentation can be kind of a dry subject :-)
[13:24]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Red was just asking, about what groups can be seen, in profile.
[13:25]	:	I must have missed the question!
[13:26]	:	yes thank you.....is it possible to see 'hidden groups'
[13:27]	:	I believe if they have hte profile able to be searched
[13:27]	:	thre was mention you could see certain KINDS of hidden groups if you go to someone's new personal identity page thingy online and tack /groups onto the end of the URL
[13:27]	:	and you google the av it might give a list of names with hte right search
[13:27]	:	even hidden
[13:27]	:	I'm not 100% sure, Redrose. It seems unlikely, at least using official Second Life viewers.
[13:27]	:	I gather it was something lke,,,,, if the group was created hidden, then it will show up. If you MADE it hidden, it won't
[13:28]	:	k how can group be created hidden?
[13:28]	:	dunno, that was a new one on me too
[13:28]	:	and thank you so much for explaining this to me
[13:28]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me doesn't understand the first thing about it
[13:29]	:	:))) makes 2 of us Arawn
[13:29]	:	Generally, you should be able to un-check "Show in my profile" in the group's profile page.
[13:29]	:	but it seems to be a bug with the newly created (and still not officially announced) system where your profile info is placed up on a web page here.
[13:30]	:	my only concern was that as I have chosen to 'hide' some of my groups....I did not like the idea that the 'hidden groups' could be viewed by anyone else. So you have answered my question, many thanks.
[13:30]	:	i.e. like this one: https://my.secondlife.com/nathan.adored
[13:30]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Have you a link, Nathan? I want to see what Red is hiding
[13:30]	:	Arawn, that's not very nice.
[13:30]	:	But, even then, I checked mine, and all the ones that are supposed to be hidden.... are...
[13:30]	:	ROFL nothing too exciting I assure you
[13:31]	:	again many thanks for this....I am reassured now....phew! I will sit quietly now and learn :)))
[13:31]	:	Interesting. Good to know that our privacy features work correctly :-)
[13:31]	 	(arawn.spitteler): It souds to me, that my.secondlife.com should be opt in, rather than opt out
[13:32]	:	For reference, my job working on online help means I often know how Second Life is *supposed* to work, but I don't always know the workarounds to common bugs.
[13:33]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me's a bit confused by VWR-24406, and why would Ellla be concerned about Viewer 2?
[13:34]	:	I'm wading through my old retweets to see if I can find the blog that mentioned this issue
[13:35]	:	Reading the jira...
[13:36]	 	(arawn.spitteler): It's a simple issue,but Ellla makes it sound like only Viewer 2 is supported
[13:36]	:	Oh. She's concerned about the latest official viewer because... that's the official viewer :-)
[13:38]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Is anyone here on Viewer 2?
[13:38]	:	I am!
[13:38]	:	/me looks around.
[13:38]	:	Interesting.
[13:39]	:	hmmmm.... I must not have retweeted it..... oO
[13:39]	:	I'm still on Phoenix viewer
[13:39]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Do Lindens have a choice?
[13:39]	:	Oddly enough, viewer statistics might affect documentation. Lots of our how-to guides and descriptions are based on the assumption that most people are using the latest official viewer.
[13:40]	:	Historically, we haven't been allowed to use third-party viewers on any computer we use for work. I'm pretty sure Snowglobe is fair game, though.
[13:41]	:	anyway, the issue apparenty was that only a certian, narrowly-defined KIND of hidden groups were showing up publickly.
[13:41]	:	And only on that web page thingy
[13:41]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Is there any sort of metric, for viewer preferences? I know Noobs are often happy to switch to snowglobe
[13:41]	:	Internally, yes. I don't know if we publish those stats, though :-)
[13:42]	:	/me just heard a MacOS sound!
[13:42]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Who's trying to push Viewer 2 is whistlin in the dark.
[13:44]	:	hey guys
[13:44]	:	I can't really comment on that, except to say that it's the official viewer, and it's what I support when I write online help :-)
[13:44]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Be sure to get the usage stats
[13:44]	:	Hello LadyMoon. Welcome to documentation office hours. This is an open chat about Second Life's online help (and other stuff).
[13:44]	:	Gitana1 (gitana1) is now known as Gitana Blomer.
[13:46]	:	Hmm...
[13:47]	:	Has anyone got any deep thoughts or opinions on the maintenance of online help in a world where there are many viewer choices?
[13:48]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Each viewer should have hover help, written by it's own geeks, but Quality Nurtured by a pro
[13:48]	:	dunno.... is it worth it creating help pages showing the eqivalent menu actions in the most popuilar one or two of the TPVs un addition ot ones for the official LL viewer?
[13:48]	:	*in addition
[13:48]	:	<--- can't type sometimes
[13:49]	:	Nathan, who would be responsible for maintaining those pages?
[13:49]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me's been having to watch for typos, today
[13:49]	:	dunno
[13:49]	:	recruit someone who is involved on that viewer, maybe?
[13:49]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Viewer Team should be working for usability by people.
[13:50]	:	yeah, tere is that
[13:50]	:	+h
[13:50]	:	Grrr..... having two viewrs open, some of my keypresses seem to be being "eaten"
[13:51]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I've been inspired to preach Quality Nurtured, and it'll be a tough job for Jeremy, dealing with proffessional Geeks, but the Geeks must understand what Users are looking at. Do Geeks actually believe in Users?
[13:51]	 	has pinged you.
[13:51]	:	Have we wandered into a plot from Tron: Legacy or something? :D
[13:52]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me will assimilate
[13:52]	:	Sometimes, part of my job is to act as a user-advocate, pointing out possible user experience issues based on my own Second Life experience as a Resident.
[13:52]	:	(Still haven't seen that movie.... no spoilers please! :D )
[13:52]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me still hasn't seen Deathly Hallows, let alone Tron Legacy
[13:52]	:	Or, at least I make it part of my job when I'm on teams who are making new features :-)
[13:52]	:	ã‹¡
[13:53]	:	Heck, I missed the most recent Star Trek movie, too... haven't been to the theater in.... years... oO
[13:53]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Dealing with Users who do or do not know as much as the geeks do, is an important art.
[13:53]	:	/me nods nods nods
[13:53]	:	*I watched 'Wall E' the other evening.....such a sweet movie :)))
[13:54]	:	It's a necessity for most technical writers. We need to be able to communicate engineering concepts to a non-engineering audience as concisely and accurately as possible. It's easier when the UI is designed to be user-friendly from the ground up :-)
[13:54]	:	Wall E is a good movie :)
[13:55]	:	lol
[13:55]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me'd like to digress, andsugges that LAdyMoon practice up for Pole Dancing, as an olympic experiment in 2016
[13:55]	:	*sits quietly and listens again*
[13:55]	:	bear on bear communication
[13:56]	:	Sqeak! Roar!
[13:56]	:	giggles
[13:56]	:	Items successfully shared.
[13:56]	:	hannanbaal (hannanbaal) is now known as hannan baal.
[13:58]	:	This object is not for sale.
[13:59]	:	/me is surprised there aren't more robot Linden bears.
[13:59]	:	Must remember to bother Nyx to make his bear.
[13:59]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Mentors were an important part of Documentation, translating what people couldn't look up
[13:59]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:59]	:	Arawn, I believe we still have a community translation project.
[14:00]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Don't people still struggle, with those ugly red columns, they can't look up?
[14:01]	:	/me reminds everyone that the sheep could look it up. ã‹¡
[14:02]	:	Or, rather The Sheep Look Up.
[14:02]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Wellington shouldn't have to
[14:02]	:	Okay, I'm making a really, gawdawful pun with the title of an old classic sci-fi novel I've never read.
[14:03]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Do Androids bleep of Robo Sheep?
[14:03]	:	ã‹¡
[14:03]	:	/me wodners how many sci-fi novels features sheep in their title
[14:04]	:	...and cutting here for this week's transcript!
[14:04]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me now begins the sedition
 
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