Mesh/Archive/2012-02-13

==Agenda==
# Having studied this document I am curious about some things. Since primitives are by far the most efficient physics shape, how about lowering the LI cost for the basic primitives in a linkset that are invisible? (100% transparancy) And then make sure that no graphics is streamed that won't be seen anyway. Thus encouraging vehicle makers and terrain-makers to use primitives as collision shapes rather than more physics costly Mesh triangle shapes. As a builder, it is a hell of a lot easier to do it this way, and set the meshes to physics type none, instead of trying to understand how to get the best decompose results. [Davido Chrome]
# Mesh attachments can not be dropped. This is not consistant with other objects. Is there are good reason for this, or is there a way to make this match up with prims and sculpties? I make food and ammo items which get used up by players who use my combat system. When the item is empty, you would normally drop the item and it automatically deletes itself from your inventory. See my zombie food example, which is a mesh brain. [Medhue Simoni]
# Wish list: New material setting: Water. Imagine riding a Simboard on a mesh wave which behaves just like water with vehicles set to boat! Pure bliss man! (And more commonly I suspect, the possibility of making a mountain lake with water that behaves like sea-level water.) [Davido Chrome] 
# Can I upload physics Shape using <box>, <sphere>, etc. of the Collada physics section? [Yuzuru Jewell]
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Ash Weststar (ash.qin)
*Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)
*ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)
*draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Elie Spot (elie.spot)
*Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad)
*Ima Mechanique (ima.mechanique)
*Jeremy Linden (jeremy.linden)
*JIRA-helper (jira-helper)
*Jonathan (jonathan.yap)
*Kaiser Bogomil (kaiser.bogomil)
*Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray)
*Medhue Simoni (medhue.simoni)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Amethyst (niranv.dean)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Sera Lok (sera.lok)
*Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood)
*Tiberious Neruda (tiberious.neruda)
*Tillie Ariantho (tillie.ariantho)
*Timmy Bulmer (timmy.bulmer)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
*Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday February 13, 2012==
[12:00]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Whoo Hooo!
[12:00]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Charlar.
[12:00]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey charlar
[12:00]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	let's get this party started
[12:01]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	hello Charlar
[12:01]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	in a couple minutes
[12:01]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	:-)
[12:01]	Timmy Bulmer 	Hey all! Sorry for popping up last minute.
[12:01]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Hey Charlar & Runitai.
[12:01]	Nyx Linden 	agenda: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:02]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	hey vir
[12:02]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Hey Vir.
[12:02]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	And Jeremy, heh.
[12:02]	Vir Linden 	Howdy!
[12:02]	Jeremy Linden 	/me waves.
[12:03]	Timmy Bulmer 	My first time seeing a linden in person. :p
[12:03]	Tillie Ariantho 	Timmy: you didnt come around much, eh? :D
[12:03]	Timmy Bulmer 	Nope. First SL office hour that I've been to.
[12:06]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	OK, let's get started
[12:06]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	1) Having studied this document I am curious about some things. Since primitives are by far the most efficient physics shape, how about lowering the LI cost for the basic primitives in a linkset that are invisible? (100% transparancy) And then make sure that no graphics is streamed that won't be seen anyway. Thus encouraging vehicle makers and terrain-makers to use primitives as collision shapes rather than more physics costly Mesh triangle shapes. As a builder, it is a hell of a lot easier to do it this way, and set the meshes to physics type none, instead of trying to understand how to get the best decompose results. [Davido Chrome]
[12:06]	Medhue Simoni 	just in time
[12:07]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	whispers: I realized that maybe it's allready done that way
[12:07]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I realized that maybe it's allready done that way?
[12:08]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	This is something we're investigating; we need to be very careful about any changes to how we calculate Resource Weights.
[12:08]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	i dont think so , 100% transparent objects still seem to be rendered
[12:09]	Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood) 	llNyx!
[12:09]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	it should be possible to tell the Viewer an object with X Y Z size and rotation is on X Y Z position , without making the viewer actually rendering it
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	Yes. It is already done. If you use cylinders for wheels they are 0.1 each physica weight, transparent or not.
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	greetings :)
[12:09]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	On the other hand, it might not be a problem. Seems like you need quite a high physics cost or you will sink into elevated prims.
[12:09]	davep (runitai.linden) 	there's a fix in the pipe right now to not render 100% transparent objects
[12:09]	davep (runitai.linden) 	got a little held up because it broke highlight transparent
[12:09]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	cool
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	).1 is the weight for a havok primitive.
[12:10]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	is it in Shining-Fixes?
[12:10]	davep (runitai.linden) 	yes
[12:10]	Tiberious Neruda 	FS3.3.0 uses it, apparently
[12:10]	davep (runitai.linden) 	SH-2963 is the fix for highlight transparent
[12:10]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	ah SH-2963 was the fix
[12:10]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I was thinking that setting things to nonphysical would remove that point of the landimpact cost and invisible prims owould get their graphics streaming cost.
[12:11]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	removed.
[12:11]	Drongle McMahon 	But presumably it will still have 0.5 server cost? 1.0 if in a scripted linkset?
[12:11]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	if that was already the fix , then i must have merged the commit already , will have to try that later if "invisible" prims really dont "render"
[12:11]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	So using invisible prims as collision would result in the same landimpact as a Mesh object with calculated hulls.
[12:12]	davep (runitai.linden) 	probably a little worse than that because of the streaming cost being applied based on triangle count
[12:12]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(spheres and cylinders are pretty high poly)
[12:13]	Kaiser Bogomil 	too bad you don't use nurbs ehs?
[12:14]	Drongle McMahon 	But download cost should be 0 for unrendered onbjects, because they don't need to get downloaded?
[12:14]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	theoretically yes
[12:14]	Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood) 	the client still needs the info
[12:14]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	practically they must be downloaded as the viewer should know they exist , but shouldnt be rendered
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	No it doesn't? Only the server needs it for physics.
[12:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Maybe a "Compile collision prims from primis" option?
[12:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	-i
[12:15]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	mh...
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	viewer needs it for selection
[12:15]	Kaiser Bogomil 	there ya go Davido
[12:15]	Nyx Linden 	but doesn't need to render the triangles most of the time
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	Why does the viewer need to know about them?
[12:15]	Kaiser Bogomil 	you can still use the compiled version for selection
[12:15]	Drongle McMahon 	So download only when selected for edit?
[12:16]	Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood) 	if you edit something the viewer needs to know
[12:16]	Kaiser Bogomil 	no - only download the hull for selection
[12:16]	Kaiser Bogomil 	you only need a psudo prim for selection
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	you can still edit invisible objects, would be difficult to know what you're selecting if you haven't downloaded it. the triangles shouldn't be used for non-picking rendering if they're 100% transparent though.
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	that's why we have the patch in the works
[12:16]	davep (runitai.linden) 	we should probably move on
[12:16]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Ok, great
[12:16]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	but how does the server know that you need Object XYZ to download if you cannot select it and therefor tell the server i need those infos?
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	Anyway, what we need is for havok primitives to be usable in uploaded physics shapes; then all that becomes academic.
[12:17]	Medhue Simoni 	Please, i have 2 minute before i have to leave to pick my son up
[12:17]	Tiberious Neruda 	I wouldn't mind that
[12:17]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	2) Mesh attachments can not be dropped. This is not consistant with other objects. Is there are good reason for this, or is there a way to make this match up with prims and sculpties? I make food and ammo items which get used up by players who use my combat system. When the item is empty, you would normally drop the item and it automatically deletes itself from your inventory. See my zombie food example, which is a mesh brain. [Medhue Simoni]
[12:17]	Kaiser Bogomil 	easy Niranv :) .. would work just like name/description
[12:17]	Medhue Simoni 	I'm wearing the brain now
[12:17]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	hum we can drop meshes
[12:18]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-2gdwHWmKwlQ/TyI0ttanmAI/AAAAAAAAClI/EyjH9hbE1d4/s1600/Snapshot_968.png
[12:18]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	all of those were meshes
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	there are some fundamental differences in the way that the server loads meshes in-world vs mesh attachments that means that dropping them is not possible to do well
[12:18]	Medhue Simoni 	Second Life: You can't drop mesh attachments. Detach to inventory and then rez in world.
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	...would that be because of how meshes get uploaded now? Kinda a prevention against accidental deletion?
[12:18]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	ah
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	you can rez them from inventory
[12:18]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	havnt tried that
[12:19]	Medhue Simoni 	Well, I would prefer they could drop
[12:19]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	What if you link it with a prim as root?
[12:19]	Kaiser Bogomil 	ditto
[12:19]	Nyx Linden 	unfortunately we don't have a good way of enabling that without breaking things right now.
[12:19]	Medhue Simoni 	nope, i tried changing the root
[12:19]	Kaiser Bogomil 	shouldn't matter if its a link set or not
[12:20]	Medhue Simoni 	Well, it's good to know then.
[12:21]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Ok, so let's move to the next item.
[12:21]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	3) Wish list: New material setting: Water. Imagine riding a Simboard on a mesh wave which behaves just like water with vehicles set to boat! Pure bliss man! (And more commonly I suspect, the possibility of making a mountain lake with water that behaves like sea-level water.) [Davido Chrome]
[12:21]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Radical man!
[12:21]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	would be cool
[12:21]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'd definitely co-sign this, especially if the prim's volume acted like sim water :3
[12:21]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	uh, davido, that's much more than simply a materials setting.
[12:21]	Kaiser Bogomil 	yes ... should be doable witout a huge lag hit if you do it with opencl
[12:21]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	as the water reflection can only be on the sea level water , setting certain "points" of water in which a another sea-level like water gets renderes would be awesome
[12:22]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Charlar, i mean from a users perspective.
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	...pools with real water in them... only needing a swimming attachment to use
[12:22]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Ahh, yes, well, ok! haha. Underneath the covers it's pretty huge
[12:22]	Nyx Linden 	the request as listed is for a complete and arbitrary water simulation system, which is *far* beyond just a materials setting
[12:23]	Kaiser Bogomil 	Physx has the tools for it
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	how about implementing a system in which you can set "waypoints" for the server and client , like a selection circle/rectangle in which water gets rendered in a set height?
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon 	Physical water that could turn waterwheels!-)
[12:23]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	a simple water Simulation like it was in Linden World would be already awesome
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'm pretty sure I asked for something similar, just with a script solution instead for detecting when you entered water
[12:23]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Oh, well, move it in to the to do in ten years list then...
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	(or exited it)
[12:24]	Kaiser Bogomil 	I would put a heuristic score on that one - 1-10
[12:24]	Kaiser Bogomil 	/me votes 8
[12:24]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	you could also implement it with a material system
[12:24]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	set a flag in the tools floater to render as water
[12:25]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Wouldn't it be possible to just set it so that you sink into the prim, and are moved out of it kind of smoothly?
[12:25]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	and the viewer will render the surface as normal sea level water
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden) 	the existing water shader actually makes a lot of assumptions about just being a plane
[12:25]	Tiberious Neruda 	(and since there's a scripted state, swiming HUDs would use less resources, rigt?)
[12:25]	Kaiser Bogomil 	something like that - yes but you'd want to be careful ... I would have two kinds of water .. scenic & physical
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden) 	extending it to allow multiple water planes is non-trivial
[12:25]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	then you should make the water shater be able to set on surfaces
[12:26]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	yea thats ok
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	much easier said than done
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	Tides would be nice.
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	also having it behave like water is a much more difficult issue
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden) 	any actual displacement of the water surface breaks content
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(tides, waves, etc)
[12:26]	Tiberious Neruda 	right now, that's NOT what we're asking
[12:27]	Kaiser Bogomil 	not if its in a container
[12:27]	Tillie Ariantho 	Runitai: not if its an enableable setting. :P
[12:27]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	What about having a boat setting that relies on a prim set to water?
[12:27]	Tiberious Neruda 	this person wants to make mesh/sculpt 'waves' to assist the sim water
[12:27]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	OK, let's wrap this up and get to the next item...
[12:27]	Drongle McMahon 	A bit of coastal erosion could solve the mainland glut :-)
[12:27]	Kaiser Bogomil 	no kludges .... it would be too expensive to do it & then toss it for the right solution
[12:28]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	4) Can I upload physics Shape using <box>, <sphere>, etc. of the Collada physics section? [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:28]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Support for this is somethign runitai talked a bit about last week.
[12:28]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	It'd be great, but we're not going to be able to put any resources on it.
[12:29]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	We'd love to see the open source community perhaps take this one on.
[12:29]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'd be happy if we could get the gap out of physics shapes for mesh
[12:29]	Kaiser Bogomil 	lol
[12:29]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	If you have an interest, please contact Oz Linden, but let us know.
[12:29]	Squirrely Wrath (squirrel.wood) 	(fluid simulation: http://mikeash.com/pyblog/fluid-simulation-for-dummies.html)
[12:29]	Kaiser Bogomil 	the physics engine has been wrong from day one
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda 	...of cours eit won't rez
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon 	Lack of access to the havok physics primitives is a great pity.
[12:30]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	So we can't uplaod phisics shape directly..
[12:30]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	Will the server take the upload or does work have to be done there, too?
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda 	watch how it just floats right above any prim it's on
[12:31]	Tiberious Neruda 	that... is ridiculous, IMO
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	presumably, supporting the collada physics library would just require a modification of the importer on the viewer
[12:31]	Drongle McMahon 	Yuzuru ... even if you provide perfect baxes, spheres etc, it doesn't recognise them as such, but if you add them as invisible prims it does - so a lot of the code must be there in the server already.
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	it actually looks like it penetrates from my angle....checking physics display....
[12:32]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	charlar having Os try and work on that upload issue would be very dificult @ this point
[12:32]	Tiberious Neruda 	that blue thing is phantom
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	But it would surely need some server changes too - which means it can'y be os alone?
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden) 	depends on how you want to do it
[12:33]	davep (runitai.linden) 	if you want the mesh asset to contain "box" and "sphere" assets, then yes
[12:33]	Tiberious Neruda 	see how much it floats?
[12:33]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	it seems as this object has a correct physics shape , but bigger than its actual graphic shape
[12:33]	davep (runitai.linden) 	but if you want to just inject prims into the imported link set, shouldn't require any sim side changes
[12:33]	davep (runitai.linden) 	I could be wrong
[12:33]	Drongle McMahon 	I want it to use havok primitives.
[12:33]	Kaiser Bogomil 	its been that way for 6 yrs
[12:33]	Tiberious Neruda 	but...
[12:33]	Tiberious Neruda 	I used prims for this one's collision shape
[12:34]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	If we get a proposal and it requires server side work, we'd consider doing it and working out the schedule.
[12:34]	Drongle McMahon 	Don't really care how it gets there.
[12:34]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Drongle: the sim uses havok primiitivies for spheres, boxes, and cylinders
[12:34]	davep (runitai.linden) 	(prim spheres, boxes, and cylinders)
[12:34]	Kaiser Bogomil 	it would be nice to finish the physics engine :)
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon 	Davep .. yes, butb only if you link them, not if they are in the uploaded physics shape.
[12:35]	Tiberious Neruda 	striped one uses prims
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon 	With linking, we get all the problems under item (1)
[12:36]	davep (runitai.linden) 	presumably the problems under item 1 can be addressed
[12:36]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	How about a "Use as physics shape" checkbox?
[12:37]	Drongle McMahon 	I would much prefer to include them in the upload, so they are there forever and you don't need to worry about unlinking, editing etc.
[12:37]	Tiberious Neruda 	now, considering I'll be using these for a game, I -want- the prim-style collision with the mesh shape
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	is there a jira on that tiberious?
[12:37]	Tiberious Neruda 	not that I know of
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden) 	Drongle: kk, that's something we'd have to do internally since it would involve extending the mesh asset format
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	please create one :)
[12:37]	Kaiser Bogomil 	yes Tiberious ... makes sense
[12:37]	Tiberious Neruda 	.......................
[12:38]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Hey, want some metrics?
[12:38]	Kaiser Bogomil 	and when you do soft body physics ... you don't have to worry about sync'ing the visible with the physical
[12:38]	Tiberious Neruda 	oh come on. How many times must I say it?
[12:38]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)	yes give us metrics
[12:38]	Kaiser Bogomil 	one more time
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	O.O numbers yum
[12:39]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	current stats for usage of modern viewers:
[12:39]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Residents - over 70%
[12:39]	Geenz Kitten (geenz.spad) 	:>
[12:39]	Drongle McMahon 	Davep....yes, Isuppose it would :-(
[12:40]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Also, as far as uploading mesh, we've topped the previous high back in August - For the past two weeks we've averaged well over 1400 objects uploaded a day onto the maingrid.
[12:40]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Does modern excluse viewers that do not support mesh and media on prim?
[12:40]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	*exclude
[12:40]	Elie Spot 	thats awesome
[12:40]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	I think that's a yes.
[12:41]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	"modern" supports mesh, as well as most other newer features.
[12:41]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	1400 per day? Damn... How many object gets uploaded each day on a whole?
[12:41]	Drongle McMahon 	"modern" = "not obsolete"?
[12:42]	Kaiser Bogomil 	:) mine is the only one I use :) cuz its the best ;)
[12:42]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	(The reason why I ask about media on prim, is that there are a few 1.x viewers that support mesh, but don't support media on prim, which I find kind of annoying when it comes to adoption of certain technologies)
[12:42]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Davido - that's the average number of mesh objects uploaded each day.
[12:42]	Tiberious Neruda 	Nyx, I've said it about a dozen times already: I -don't trust the jira- anymore
[12:42]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Modern is a strange word sometimes, Kinda implies fashion, and kinda not..
[12:42]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I'm not sure about what TPVs support media on a prim, sorry.
[12:43]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	It is fewer than the last week.
[12:43]	Kaiser Bogomil 	I tried to get Media on a prim working ... with 3.x & it didn't fly
[12:43]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Charlar, I understood that. Kind of useless number if you don't gives us scale to compare against though...
[12:43]	Kaiser Bogomil 	good point Davido
[12:43]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar) 	if it is a V2/V3 TPV then yse it will be supporting MOAP
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	jira is our system for tracking work, from assignment to implementation, merging, and releasing. Every bit of work we do needs a jira associated with it. its not perfect but its what we have to make sure things get done :)
[12:44]	Drongle McMahon 	But non-mesh objects don't get uploaded.
[12:44]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	well, there's nothing to really compare it to - texture uploads are very different. Mesh is the only object that is uploaded
[12:44]	Kaiser Bogomil 	I might get around to it .. but I have unlimited prims :)
[12:44]	Elie Spot 	what was the high in august?
[12:45]	Tillie Ariantho 	/me makes a note: jira for a nyx bear. :P
[12:45]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	1540 on the day after we released mesh
[12:45]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	Ah, forgot, nothing in teh database that tags Sculpt textyúres other than where people use them is there?
[12:45]	Kaiser Bogomil 	1540 doesn't sound like much
[12:46]	Elie Spot 	well it was the day after the release
[12:46]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	As with all metrics, you really have to consider the context
[12:46]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	these are things created and uploaded. They could have been used inworld 100 times after that.
[12:46]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	On the other hand, Mesh lets you fiddle with the details endlessly. working on a bike. With luck it will be done by 2016.
[12:46]	Kaiser Bogomil 	yes .. so as Davido pointed out a proportion of some kind would be helpful
[12:46]	Elie Spot 	1400/day is awesome
[12:47]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	What is means to me is that people are uploading more and more stuff; might be for resale, or for their own use.
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	!400/day is one every minute
[12:47]	Kaiser Bogomil 	what's the acceleration?
[12:47]	Elie Spot 	and daily which means a lot more people are doing the uploading
[12:47]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome) 	How about how many objects that are put up on Marketplace is Mesh/nonmesh?
[12:47]	Drongle McMahon 	Nyx, would you like your office rebuilt in mesh?
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden) 	I gotta run after SH-2908 breakage
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	Drongle - would be a good excuse to redesign the office ;)
[12:48]	davep (runitai.linden) 	thanks for the discussion, folks!
[12:48]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Heh, Runitai. :p
[12:48]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	Runatai you are the best!
[12:49]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Kaiser- over the past month we've *roughly* increased from about 1000 a day to about 1500 a day. It's still continuing on that trend.
[12:49]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	Charlar, are you keeping stats for Aditi too?
[12:50]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	I'm not, actually Jonathan.
[12:50]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	it would be interesting certainly, but not a priority over other work for me :-)
[12:50]	Tillie Ariantho 	Flickr just had "5,385 uploads" in the last MINUTE, that is much. :P
[12:51]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	Agni stats show either finished products or people who do not know about Aditi
[12:51]	Ima Mechanique 	but Tillie, most of those aren't worth looking at ;-)
[12:51]	Tillie Ariantho 	true :P
[12:51]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Charlar, can't you sentence griefers to sitting in ADITI counting uploads for you?
[12:51]	Elie Spot 	if flickr charged for uploads i think it would be lower xD
[12:51]	Vivienne Daguerre 	any possibility that we will be able to link large prims?
[12:51]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Ahh, but those don't get propogated the same way. Apples and Rocks comparison
[12:51]	Vivienne Daguerre 	can the linkset limits be easily changed?
[12:52]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Nal - brilliant!
[12:52]	Nyx Linden 	/me needs to run to his next meeting. Thanks for coming all :)
[12:52]	Tiberious Neruda 	yeah... people usually upload multiple times on beta grid
[12:52]	Tiberious Neruda 	working out kinks in rigged meshes, usuall
[12:52]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx Lindens
[12:52]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	bye Nyc
[12:52]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	We need to wrap this up folks, thanks very much for coming
[12:52]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	Nyx
[12:52]	Vivienne Daguerre 	good to see you
[12:52]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	im too stupid to write
[12:52]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Vivienne - what do you mean exactly?
[12:52]	Vir Linden 	bye folks!
[12:52]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Are you referring to the linkset limit based on distance?
[12:53]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	if you could help with this one, or set it on the agenda for the next meeting, this would be great: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-28312
[12:53]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I tried to link large sized meshes... building a platform for my new store
[12:53]	Tiberious Neruda 	...if one of you all wants to document that physics thing, be my guest
[12:53]	JIRA-helper 	[#VWR-28312] Each minimized IM panel costs 7 fps - please add the option to use a non-transparent UI like with Viewer 1.x (see the attached video) - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:53]	Vivienne Daguerre 	yes
[12:53]	Sera Lok 	take care^^
[12:53]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	bye Vir
[12:53]	Ima Mechanique 	thanks Charlar
[12:53]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Thanks Lindens
[12:53]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I still can't repro that.
[12:53]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	goodbye everyone
[12:53]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	I am on 32bit windows.
[12:53]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	i could repro it just now
[12:53]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	:P
[12:53]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	That's not something we're looking at. I'm not sure what the technical difficulties would be.
[12:53]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Shouldn't make a difference, considering the viewer is 32-bit.
[12:53]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	Viv ^^
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	i opened marketplace in my browser
[12:54]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	Martin, that is a vwr issue which will be picked up in triage
[12:54]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Nods... not a big issue. We have been working around that forever.
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	will try SL browser
[12:54]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	amethyst not that one
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	no?
[12:54]	Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray) 	the one about the fps-loss with minimized IM windows
[12:54]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	yes
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	ah your IM one
[12:54]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	/me continues waiting for Tofu's graded shadows viewer to build.
[12:54]	Jonathan (jonathan.yap) 	Alexa or someone will catch it
[12:54]	Charlar The Terrible (charlar.linden)	OK folks, 'til we meet again!
[12:54]	Vivienne Daguerre 	til then take care
[12:54]	Amethyst (niranv.dean) 	graded shadows are cool
[12:54]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	bye
[12:55]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Medhue, give me my brain back please. I was not done with it.
[12:55]	Tillie Ariantho 	graded shadows?
[12:55]	Sera Lok 	take care, bya
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