Community Tools User Group/15-September-2011

==Attendees List==
*Adamburp Adamczyk (adamburp.adamczyk)
*Arawn Graalrd (arawn.spitteler)
*Erinyse Planer (erinyse.planer)
*Harlow Heslop (harlow.heslop)
*Jeremy Linden (jeremy.linden)
*ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³ (joke.bubble)
*Liisa Runo (liisa.runo)
*Lyrical Popstar (lyrical.popstar)
*Marianne McCann (marianne.mccann)
*Peewee Musytari (peewee.musytari)
*Rand Linden (rand.linden)
*Thriller Dancer (thriller.dancer)
*Time Minder (time.minder)
*Torben (torben.trautman)
==Transcript for Thursday September 15, 2011==
[12:58]	Peewee Musytari 	\o/ "YAYYYY!!!" 	
[12:58]	Peewee Musytari 	 	
[12:58]	Peewee Musytari 	_/\_ 	
[12:58]	Jeremy Linden 	Jeremy Linden waves 	
[12:58]	Arawn Graalrd 	Is Burning Life still in biz? 	
[12:58]	Peewee Musytari 	its a Jeremy :)) 	
[12:58]	Marianne McCann 	Hey Jeremy 	
[12:58]	Peewee Musytari 	woots 	
[12:58]	Arawn Graalrd 	WE have Jeremy? 	
[12:58]	Thriller Dancer 	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands 	
[12:58]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	hey jeremy 	
[12:59]	Marianne McCann 	Atawn - there has not been a "Burning Life" since 2009. 	
[12:59]	Peewee Musytari 	and a flappy ruthed torben hehe 	
[12:59]	Marianne McCann 	There is, however, Burn2, and it is ongoing 	
[12:59]	Torben 	yay 	
[12:59]	Marianne McCann 	Arawn, I mean, sorry 	
[12:59]	Torben 	ellows 	
[12:59]	Jeremy Linden 	Hey everyone. Still no Lexie this week. Rand should be here, though. 	
[13:00]	Peewee Musytari 	whats lexie up to?..she siad she`d be gone till end of sept 	
[13:00]	Peewee Musytari 	running in that hamster wheel? 	
[13:00]	Jeremy Linden 	I'm afraid I can't really talk about what Lindens are doing outside work. 	
[13:00]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	we understand 	
[13:00]	Peewee Musytari 	ahh so she isn`t on another sl job is what I meant 	
[13:01]	Arawn Graalrd 	We'll simply mug your alt 	
[13:01]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	but lexie has a lot of respect here - and we're just concerned 	
[13:01]	Torben 	nah, sheÂ´s looking for another rl job 	
[13:01]	Marianne McCann 	Ah... so she must be running for President 	
[13:01]	Peewee Musytari 	eeps 	
[13:01]	Jeremy Linden 	Vote for Lexie! 	
[13:01]	Torben 	just kidding I hope 	
[13:02]	Arawn Graalrd 	It's a nervous time, to run for Pres; if Obama embraces Reaganomics, he'd win easy; it's all his decision. 	
[13:02]	Peewee Musytari 	ur sposed to say she is in long and detailed meetings with lithium on how to fix Answers :P 	
[13:02]	Torben 	Adam complained one time too often about LL support so Lexie needed extended vacations 	
[13:02]	Marianne McCann 	Yes, but Lexie promises a prim in every pot! 	
[13:02]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	oh, my crusade is finished 	
[13:02]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	rod answered my im 	
[13:02]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	not entorely happy with what he said 	
[13:02]	Torben 	just teasing Adam :) 	
[13:03]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	lol 	
[13:03]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	but i have to accept it 	
[13:03]	Marianne McCann 	So what's the buzz, Jeremy? 	
[13:03]	Torben 	I stepped on LexieÂ´s toe so now sheÂ´s recovering 	
[13:03]	Peewee Musytari 	rod is busy fixing group chat lag apparently lol 	
[13:03]	Torben 	nough rumours for today 	
[13:03]	Jeremy Linden 	We don't seem to have much of an agenda today, but I can give a few updates on what I've been working on. 	
[13:04]	Jeremy Linden 	I'm still documenting new and evolving mesh features, not the least of which will be a new term: "land impact" 	
[13:04]	Peewee Musytari 	ooh 	
[13:04]	Marianne McCann 	Marianne McCann shifts nervously 	
[13:04]	Peewee Musytari 	when they fall down? 	
[13:05]	Arawn Graalrd 	When they multiply the prim equivalency 	
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden 	Land impact is the same number as "number of objects on parcel" now, but it's meant to encompass the impact that mesh objects have, too. Meshes often obviosuly count as more than one "prim", so we wanted to be able to make a clear distinction. 	
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden 	Now, "number of prims" will solely mean "number of distinct parts" and will not be related to land limits. 	
[13:06]	Arawn Graalrd 	Isn't PE still in flux? 	
[13:06]	Liisa Runo 	i like the word "impact" there, reminds me of a missile crater or something, very fitting 	
[13:06]	Marianne McCann 	Off-hand, does that only account for mesh PE, or would we see other items - >10m prims, sculpts, etc. given more "weight?" Do we know? 	
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden 	Arawn, land impact is actually the new term for "PE". We found that people were confused by the term "prim equivalent", since it still contained the word "prim". 	
[13:06]	Arawn Graalrd 	AFAIK, Megaprims will still be prims, until you add a mesh bow tie 	
[13:07]	Marianne McCann 	But without a mesh bow tie, none of my >10m prims could go to a formal 	
[13:07]	Jeremy Linden 	Arawn, I think that's true. Unless you link a normal prim to a mesh, or change its physics type, it still counts as just 1. 	
[13:07]	Arawn Graalrd 	So, the edit window will list both prims and impact? 	
[13:07]	Jeremy Linden 	Yep! 	
[13:08]	Arawn Graalrd 	Will even physics time count, until you add the bow tie? 	
[13:08]	Jeremy Linden 	We'll be changing parcel terminology to match. It'll be called "land capacity". 	
[13:08]	Peewee Musytari 	people do tend to think in prims, I`m susprised that land impact is less confusing than prim equivalant 	
[13:08]	Liisa Runo 	im suprised too 	
[13:09]	Peewee Musytari 	won`t they still say..so how many prims is that? 	
[13:09]	Jeremy Linden 	Peewee, people think in terms of prims because that's what they're used to. I'm not the one who made the decision to use the new terms, but it makes sense to me in a world where prims are no longer the only unit of value. 	
[13:10]	Arawn Graalrd 	Will Parcel Limits be set by Prims or Impact? 	
[13:10]	Jeremy Linden 	Sure, Peewee. We'll still show the number of prims in an object, but prims alone will no longer be the limiting factor when you're trying to fill up your land :-) 	
[13:10]	Jeremy Linden 	Arawn - they'll be set by "land capacity", which is paired with land impact. 	
[13:10]	Marianne McCann 	Marianne McCann ponders the term "Bow Tie Impact" 	
[13:11]	Jeremy Linden 	So, a 512m parcel would have a land capacity of... is it 117? The same as it would be in prims now. 	
[13:11]	Arawn Graalrd 	Bow Tie is just the little bit of Mesh, that turns a few simple prims into hundreds. 	
[13:11]	Peewee Musytari 	well a sim has 15K prims, so people logically keep track of that...is it now going to have 15K prims or 15K prims and/or impacts? 	
[13:11]	Marianne McCann 	117, yes 	
[13:12]	Jeremy Linden 	Just impact, Peewee. 	
[13:12]	Peewee Musytari 	no prims at all? 	
[13:12]	Peewee Musytari 	Aah! 	
[13:12]	Jeremy Linden 	Well, no prim will have a land impact lower than 1. 	
[13:12]	Liisa Runo 	dont worry people, it is just new word for PE, nothing really changes 	
[13:13]	Jeremy Linden 	Yes, that's correct Liisa. 	
[13:13]	Marianne McCann 	Hey Rand 	
[13:13]	Peewee Musytari 	so what does that mean in relation to attachments that have no land impact?...are they still prims? 	
[13:13]	Torben 	hi Rand 	
[13:13]	Peewee Musytari 	hey hey rand 	
[13:13]	Rand Linden 	Howdy! SOrry Im late 	
[13:13]	Jeremy Linden 	It's just meant to make a clearer distinction between "prim" as a distinct part and "prim equivalent" as a land resource 	
[13:13]	Arawn Graalrd 	Arawn Graalrd prefers the term Tardy, as Late is a technical term 	
[13:14]	Marianne McCann 	Marianne McCann swears she just saw Rand in a suit and tie, but dismisses it as a fever dream 	
[13:14]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	Adamburp Adamczyk waves "happy birthday rand" 	
[13:14]	Rand Linden 	haha 	
[13:14]	Peewee Musytari 	ooh is ur b`day? 	
[13:14]	Rand Linden 	yes i had on a diff outfit and avie... 	
[13:14]	Peewee Musytari 	happy burfday rand 	
[13:14]	Jeremy Linden 	He had skin tone! 	
[13:14]	Marianne McCann 	He did! 	
[13:15]	Peewee Musytari 	is ur wiki page done jeremy?....methinks I need to read that 	
[13:15]	Jeremy Linden 	Peewee, I've only just started making updates to the terminology in the wiki. This is a very recent change. 	
[13:15]	Arawn Graalrd 	This morning? 	
[13:15]	Jeremy Linden 	The first doc to use it is this one: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/FAQ_for_mesh_content_creators 	
[13:16]	Peewee Musytari 	we will have colliding impacts hehe 	
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden 	So Rand, would you like to share any updates? 	
[13:17]	Arawn Graalrd 	Arawn Graalrd wonders if a sim could be overworked, by toggling a single prim mesh, in a really big object 	
[13:17]	Rand Linden 	i don't have much ..... 	
[13:17]	Rand Linden 	I can share the new Quickstart I've been working on... 	
[13:18]	Marianne McCann 	Please 	
[13:18]	Rand Linden 	http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Second-Life-Quickstart/ta-p/1087919 	
[13:18]	Rand Linden 	It's focused on basic mode 	
[13:18]	Rand Linden 	And I intend to create a "transition guide" to help people moving from basic to advanced mode 	
[13:19]	Rand Linden 	Oh, on a side note, we also added http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Keyboard-shortcuts/ta-p/1086557 	
[13:19]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	rand, jeremy, could you look at updating pages ref useage of no entry lines 	
[13:19]	Rand Linden 	Adamburp - i don't understand what you mean 	
[13:19]	Rand Linden 	"...pages ref useage of no entry lines" 	
[13:19]	Rand Linden 	?? 	
[13:19]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	okay 	
[13:19]	Rand Linden 	you mean ban lines? 	
[13:20]	Jeremy Linden 	Perhaps, "pages that refer to lines that say "no entry" 	
[13:20]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	thre sued to be a page on the wiki about using no entry lines for your own land 	
[13:20]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	used* 	
[13:20]	Marianne McCann 	I don't know if its possible, but it might be worth somehow mentioning in #2 that usernames can not changable, and may also be visible in some transactions. 	
[13:20]	Arawn Graalrd 	Oh, no-entry lines could be ass-hole lines, only 50 meters high 	
[13:20]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	eg "group only" entry etc 	
[13:20]	Rand Linden 	Good point, thx Marianne! 	
[13:20]	Marianne McCann 	(on the quickstart) 	
[13:20]	Marianne McCann 	Welcome. It's a pretty common user question/issue 	
[13:21]	Jeremy Linden 	Adam, I think you want this: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Managing-land/ta-p/700113#Section_.6 	
[13:21]	Rand Linden 	...Other comments welcome! 	
[13:21]	Marianne McCann 	2. Account type. Something that let's people know they can choose to upgrade later if they don't right then? 	
[13:21]	Marianne McCann 	Marianne McCann sharpens her red pencil 	
[13:21]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	no jeremy 	
[13:21]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	Adamburp Adamczyk bumbles thinking 	
[13:22]	Peewee Musytari 	rand could you incorporate https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4066? into your quickstart text even if whoevers job it is to change registration doesn`t get round to it for another 6 months? 	
[13:22]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	there *was* an article about using security orbs, required times to leav etc 	
[13:22]	Lyrical Popstar 	hey :D 	
[13:22]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	linked to no entry lines 	
[13:22]	Rand Linden 	OK peewee, good suggestion 	
[13:22]	Peewee Musytari 	if you can get it done on registration that would be a huge plus too lol 	
[13:23]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	hi ^^ 	
[13:23]	Erinyse Planer 	hi. sorry im late 	
[13:23]	Peewee Musytari 	ty rand 	
[13:23]	Jeremy Linden 	I don't believe Resident-created security orbs can interact with "official" ban lines. If there was a page about scripted security objects, it may have been contributed by a Resident. 	
[13:23]	Lyrical Popstar 	is there a description of what exactly this meeting is for? i have some things i wanted to bring up but want to make sure this is the appropriate meeting :P 	
[13:23]	Rand Linden 	Peewee, I don't have much luck getting MY jiras fixed, either!! 	
[13:23]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	okay 	
[13:23]	Peewee Musytari 	lol 	
[13:24]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	i juist asked as to get some clarification 	
[13:24]	Erinyse Planer 	rand that depends on what you mean by interact 	
[13:24]	Jeremy Linden 	Lyrical: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group 	
[13:24]	Arawn Graalrd 	User Tools, basically documentation, a nd just about anything should be documented. 	
[13:24]	Erinyse Planer 	err jermey i mean 	
[13:24]	Erinyse Planer 	sorry rand 	
[13:24]	Rand Linden 	This meeting is in theory for anything related to The Second Life Wiki 	
[13:24]	Jeremy Linden 	We're missing Lexie today, though. She knows more about the forums, blogs, and Answers than I do. 	
[13:25]	Lyrical Popstar 	oh ok. my question was mainly concerning the jira 	
[13:25]	Rand Linden 	Yes, Jeremy and I focus on docs, so we don't have much to say about forums, blogs, etc....but we can pass on comments...until Lexie returns 	
[13:25]	Erinyse Planer 	Erinyse Planer had a question about forum enforcement and misuse of the post reporting if i am allowed to ask here? 	
[13:25]	Arawn Graalrd 	Ask first, then wonder if it's permitted. 	
[13:26]	Marianne McCann 	(Quickstart) Might want to consider adding a line in "Making friends," noting that some people prefer to know you better first, or whatever." (I get so hit by noobs offering friendship without even saying a word to me...) 	
[13:26]	Lyrical Popstar 	lol 	
[13:26]	Peewee Musytari 	worst that can happen is u get an answer in 2 weeks 	
[13:26]	Jeremy Linden 	Erinyse, this is the right place, but unfortunately Lexie would be the one with the best answer. 	
[13:26]	Peewee Musytari 	is the right place 	
[13:26]	Erinyse Planer 	can you pass my question along then with a request for an official response please? 	
[13:27]	Arawn Graalrd 	Would Forums be a WEB Issue? 	
[13:27]	Lyrical Popstar 	My question is with the jira. Once a jira is posted, how much are suggestions and such considered, and how do we know if/when the suggestions/requests will be considered? 	
[13:27]	Rand Linden 	Sure, Erinyse... can you be more specific? 	
[13:27]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	? 	
[13:27]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	ups sorry 	
[13:27]	Rand Linden 	Lyrical: I think it depends on the issue involved 	
[13:28]	Rand Linden 	I can tell you that security issues do get reviewed immediately 	
[13:28]	Rand Linden 	If it's a real bug, then it will likely get triaged somewhere... 	
[13:28]	Lyrical Popstar 	well i'm asking with this particular jira... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7125 	
[13:28]	Rand Linden 	If it's a feature request/enhancement, then it may take longer 	
[13:28]	Peewee Musytari 	if its a bug then u usually see people at least attempting to troubleshoot/fix it.....if its a suggestion, it may as well be in invisible ink for the most part lol 	
[13:29]	Erinyse Planer 	I would simply like to know if LL officially supports the use of reporting parties to report forum posts that simply discuss legitimate issues within SL or request for the end of private "security groups." Certain groups have put out calls in group chat, and notices, and in thier wiki for the reporting f any post to the forum that discusses or criticizes or requests restrictions upon any sort of security force	
[13:29]	Lyrical Popstar 	there's a big community of people really trying to work on this issue heard, and we're all wondering if it's even being considered at this point, and don't know where to get feedback 	
[13:29]	Erinyse Planer 	and if that is NOT supported by LL if theres a way that those groups can be curtailed from abusing the report post features 	
[13:29]	Marianne McCann 	Ahh.... I know what you're talking about 	
[13:30]	Peewee Musytari 	there is one for bringing back last names that has about 1500 votes and bazillions of comments and I think its in a LL blind spot hehe 	
[13:30]	Lyrical Popstar 	yeah that's the one i'm talking about 	
[13:30]	Arawn Graalrd 	What's SVC-7125 about? 	
[13:30]	Lyrical Popstar 	it's been a really popular topic on many blogs, social networking sites, etc. for a while now and with no feedback from LL yet. 	
[13:30]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	what s svc-7125? 	
[13:30]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*â˜† DICKLEY â˜†*'``'*:-.,_,.-:* 	
[13:30]	Jeremy Linden 	Arawn, you can view it at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7125 	
[13:31]	Erinyse Planer 	i cant. jira wont let me log in to view it 	
[13:31]	Jeremy Linden 	It's a feature request called "Bring Back Last Name Options!" 	
[13:31]	Rand Linden 	Lyrical: you might have more luck in the server UG meeting. 	
[13:31]	Torben 	Fritz Linden set the status to "In Review" 	
[13:31]	Jeremy Linden 	Your jira login should be the same as your SL login. 	
[13:31]	Rand Linden 	In general, feature requests will take a long time to get addressed, since we already have a backlog of features to implement 	
[13:31]	Torben 	so it seems it has been looked at at least and might be considered 	
[13:31]	Marianne McCann 	If anything on the last name issue, it might be nice to have two possible name option spaces (firstname.lastname) that a new user could fill in. not sure what thet would do when it comes to legacy last names, but ya.. .seems more server endish 	
[13:31]	Rand Linden 	Thx Torben... there you go. 	
[13:31]	Erinyse Planer 	jeremy a certain linden locked me out because i told one of her freinds to stop bothering me on it 	
[13:32]	Torben 	Lindens donÂ´t have friends ;) 	
[13:32]	Erinyse Planer 	any attempt to log into jira sends me back to the login page 	
[13:32]	Lyrical Popstar 	we want last names back sooooo bad. lol 	
[13:32]	Lyrical Popstar 	Lyrical Popstar gets on her knees and begs :P 	
[13:32]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	i agreee 	
[13:33]	Arawn Graalrd 	We can stick underscores on our first names, but noobs will still not know their ways about. 	
[13:33]	Erinyse Planer 	I would like to see last names back too 	
[13:33]	Peewee Musytari 	it would be kinda amusing if they did bring them back....there would forever be this massive "Resident" family group covering a year or so in sl history hehe 	
[13:33]	Erinyse Planer 	one of my most common things new users ask me is how to get a last name 	
[13:33]	Lyrical Popstar 	it's almost like a class issue too... not intended i'm sure. but people who don't have last names are almost like second-class citizens :P it's silly, but it's how a lot of them are treated 	
[13:34]	Lyrical Popstar 	display names are great. i love that feature. 	
[13:34]	Peewee Musytari 	yeah they would have been a great addition to the old system 	
[13:34]	Marianne McCann 	I could see that Erinyse. They see the older names and want that 	
[13:35]	Lyrical Popstar 	yeah 	
[13:35]	Erinyse Planer 	For a while i sent them through various registration apis that still assigned last names... but those are harder to find now 	
[13:35]	Liisa Runo 	... and we are running out of sane first names already, i have already seen names like "OMFGwhyAllNamesAreTaken34873992 Resident" 	
[13:35]	Lyrical Popstar 	would it help if i sell my SL kidney in exchange for last names? :P 	
[13:35]	Torben 	I believe https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group might be a great user group to discuss this topic 	
[13:35]	Arawn Graalrd 	Arawn Graalrd settled on the surname of Spitteler, as best of awful; it makes him look like a celibate nazi, but didn't know how constrictive names could be; it's a way of recognizing seniority. 	
[13:35]	Erinyse Planer 	server group says its not their call 	
[13:35]	Jeremy Linden 	Unfortunately, it's not really an issue we can address here. As technical writers, Rand and I are placed in a later role in development. We are best at discussing features that are currently in use. :-) 	
[13:35]	Torben 	Torben loves Lyricals passion 	
[13:36]	Lyrical Popstar 	lol 	
[13:36]	Lyrical Popstar 	i'll keep an eye out for the group Rand mentioned 	
[13:36]	Arawn Graalrd 	So, how do we document the injustice of the REsident Surname? 	
[13:37]	Peewee Musytari 	do u know if bring back 2 names is ever discussed by LL?....or would u not even be allowed to say that 	
[13:37]	Liisa Runo 	The server geeks dont care about issues like this. So once again im requesting for UG meeting with "Secondlife service" theme. 	
[13:37]	Rand Linden 	I don't know if it's been discussed or not. 	
[13:37]	Marianne McCann 	Who would be the better person to hit on that for? Andrew and Simon's UG? 	
[13:37]	Erinyse Planer 	I can tell you from expereince server group and server beta group will not discuss that issue 	
[13:37]	Rand Linden 	What about allowing spaces in names? Would that address teh problem to some extent? 	
[13:38]	Peewee Musytari 	if the login could handle it 	
[13:38]	Rand Linden 	Marianne - probably that UG, yes, though they may not have any insight either. 	
[13:38]	Lyrical Popstar 	no. we really want last names. it's one of the most widely talked about complaints in SL 	
[13:38]	Marianne McCann 	Agreed, Rand. Hmm. 	
[13:38]	Liisa Runo 	Andrew and Simon and Oskar will just sigh when we bring topics like last names to them. 	
[13:38]	Peewee Musytari 	how would it know its not a legacy name? 	
[13:38]	Erinyse Planer 	rand... that group will not discuss it 	
[13:38]	Rand Linden 	Right, peewee... there is probably some good reason why spaces are not allowed 	
[13:38]	Erinyse Planer 	they sent us here back months ago 	
[13:38]	Marianne McCann 	Ooh, ya, and one doesn't want the Andrew sigh. I know if from asking physics questions back in '08 	
[13:38]	Marianne McCann 	Marianne McCann winks 	
[13:39]	Rand Linden 	It's not something we can address. 	
[13:39]	Lyrical Popstar 	or are we talking about something different and i'm just one-track minded? :P 	
[13:39]	Torben 	spaces would confuse LSL even more than now also 	
[13:39]	Arawn Graalrd 	So, where is it documented, which UG to lobby? 	
[13:39]	Rand Linden 	You might try one of Viale's UG's... e.g. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/My.secondlife.com_User_Group 	
[13:39]	Rand Linden 	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Groups describes all the UGs 	
[13:39]	Rand Linden 	In reality, there might not be a UG for each and every type of issue 	
[13:40]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	funny rand :) 	
[13:40]	Peewee Musytari 	it would be nice if whoever`s group it is would at least acknowledge that huge JIRA....its kinda rude ignoring so many people totally even if there is no solution 	
[13:40]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	i emailed rod about he frequency of YG 	
[13:40]	Erinyse Planer 	I wish we had a just plain user experience usergroup to capute all the crap that cant be covered in any other group 	
[13:40]	Lyrical Popstar 	oh wait. spaces would be cool actually 	
[13:40]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	and about wht does not get covered 	
[13:40]	Peewee Musytari 	even underscores would be a good compromise 	
[13:41]	Arawn Graalrd 	We haven't underscores? 	
[13:41]	Peewee Musytari 	not in usernames no 	
[13:41]	Rand Linden 	Usernames are alphanumeric only 	
[13:41]	Arawn Graalrd 	We should have a user group, for uncovered subjects. 	
[13:41]	Peewee Musytari 	best you can do is JohnDoe for 2 names 	
[13:41]	Lyrical Popstar 	Lyrical Popstar votes for spaces :D 	
[13:42]	Torben 	talking about technical writing: it would be a huge step forward if new residents would know that the weird username they make up will be seen inworld for the rest of their life 	
[13:42]	Erinyse Planer 	yes it would 	
[13:42]	Lyrical Popstar 	hehe yeah 	
[13:42]	Rand Linden 	Yes, Torben, I'll be sure to add that to the Quickstart Guide 	
[13:42]	Peewee Musytari 	yeah thats what https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4066? is for...a bandaid to the bigger problem 	
[13:42]	Lyrical Popstar 	most of the usernames now are like Lyrical2q094utq8t 	
[13:43]	Erinyse Planer 	meh ive seen worse then that even 	
[13:43]	Marianne McCann 	Lyrical - was one I saw down at Moose Beach recently, was "AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken Resident" or some such 	
[13:43]	Torben 	I have a hard time talking to people when I canÂ´t type their name^^ 	
[13:43]	Erinyse Planer 	its gotteh to the point people are jsut using random charactor strings 	
[13:43]	Lyrical Popstar 	oh i wish i had thought of that one :P 	
[13:43]	Peewee Musytari 	be glad you are not a DJ welcoming people lol 	
[13:43]	Torben 	hahaha 	
[13:43]	Peewee Musytari 	on voice 	
[13:43]	Peewee Musytari 	lol 	
[13:44]	Torben 	you would just hear me giggle and call them "blue pants guy with the weird name" 	
[13:44]	Lyrical Popstar 	lol 	
[13:44]	Arawn Graalrd 	Abbreviate their names to something pronounceable, to welcomke them. 	
[13:44]	Peewee Musytari 	lol 	
[13:44]	Erinyse Planer 	okay i have another question about the wiki 	
[13:45]	Erinyse Planer 	how the heck do we ar a wiki entry that links to sites that gives real life info about second life residents? 	
[13:45]	Jeremy Linden 	The original intent of usernames vs display names was supposed to be like using an email address vs. your actual name in someone's in box. "johnboy56@email.com" (like a username) might show up in your inbox as "John W. Smith" (like a display name). It does seem like it didn't quite work out like that in SL. 	
[13:45]	Peewee Musytari 	quickstart guide is great rand btw :)....will be a useful place to send people 	
[13:45]	Erinyse Planer 	Erinyse Planer refrains from saying we told you so >> 	
[13:45]	Erinyse Planer 	oh opps 	
[13:45]	Rand Linden 	Erinyse - there's not really an AR process for wiki pages, however you can IM me and I will review the page 	
[13:45]	Lyrical Popstar 	yeah. in-world though, it does take a lot away from the feeling of community and identity 	
[13:45]	Jeremy Linden 	I didn't invent the feature. I just need to explain it ;-) 	
[13:46]	Marianne McCann 	Agreed, Jeremy. Not a bad idea in a lot of ways, but many "unintended consequences." 	
[13:46]	Lyrical Popstar 	hehe :D 	
[13:46]	Rand Linden 	If you can determine that a person divulged RL info about another user, then THAT can be AR'ed. 	
[13:46]	Erinyse Planer 	theres not an ar for reporting stuff on the wiki. 	
[13:46]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	erinyse do you mean jlu? 	
[13:46]	Lyrical Popstar 	Lyrical Popstar offers her left arm too. i don't need it :P 	
[13:46]	Erinyse Planer 	thats one of many examples 	
[13:47]	Rand Linden 	No, Erinyse, there is no AR category for wiki 	
[13:47]	Erinyse Planer 	which is the problem rand 	
[13:47]	Peewee Musytari 	the other fail on display names was that they would have been great for RP ...which was an intended use I believe...but then you can only change them once a week 	
[13:47]	Torben 	I believe you can also undo the edit that revealed the information or blank the page 	
[13:47]	Rand Linden 	If youfind something offensive on teh wiki, you can also just edit the page to remove the offensive info. 	
[13:47]	Erinyse Planer 	file it under disclosure governance wont look at it cuase it deals with wiki, and say file a ticket. 	
[13:47]	Rand Linden 	right, Torben! 	
[13:47]	Torben 	:) 	
[13:47]	Erinyse Planer 	file a ticket they say flike an ar 	
[13:47]	Erinyse Planer 	and yes torben then they revise it right back 	
[13:48]	Torben 	Erin, then you ping Rand and he comes to beat em up 	
[13:48]	Jeremy Linden 	Rand, didn't we discuss a wiki editing policy that covers "edit wars"? 	
[13:48]	Marianne McCann 	What Torben said 	
[13:48]	Erinyse Planer 	all attempts to remove the kryptonradio website from the wiki were undone and met with threats of ars 	
[13:48]	Time Minder 	You have been online for 1 hours. 	
[13:48]	Rand Linden 	Jeremy - we did at one point... but I don't think it ever was made "official" ....as best I recall 	
[13:49]	Jeremy Linden 	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project:Editing_Guidelines 	
[13:49]	Torben 	can you post a link? 	
[13:49]	Erinyse Planer 	and that site routinely pairs SL resident names with real life names 	
[13:49]	Lyrical Popstar 	what? there's a site that does that? :/ 	
[13:49]	Rand Linden 	Erinsye - send me URL of the offendinng page 	
[13:49]	Marianne McCann 	Erinyse - I think the question of that group will end up having to fall under a larger policy move on all of the "law enforcement" type groups (this is somewhat off topic for wiki/KB, but still) 	
[13:49]	Erinyse Planer 	the wiki page or the page it points to or both? 	
[13:49]	Harlow Heslop 	Harlow Heslop sneaks into the meeting 	
[13:49]	Arawn Graalrd 	Would they even know my non-secret identity? 	
[13:49]	Rand Linden 	the wiki page... that I can do something about... 	
[13:50]	Rand Linden 	the 3rd party site, we have no control over 	
[13:50]	Lyrical Popstar 	and unfortunately, something off of the LL websites... not much you can do :/ 	
[13:50]	Lyrical Popstar 	that's a shame that people are doing that 	
[13:50]	Marianne McCann 	Sneaky, sneaky, Harlow 	
[13:50]	Rand Linden 	I don't think LL can prevent a 3rd party site from divulging such info...it is against SL TOS, but we can't enforce that outside of SL! 	
[13:50]	Lyrical Popstar 	harlow, you're steppingo n my leg that i'm gonna donate to LL... don't damage it! 	
[13:50]	Harlow Heslop 	haha i heard rumor of last name talk and that was my JIRA so i wanted to come listen in. *laughs* 	
[13:50]	Harlow Heslop 	oh i can give both my arms if they'd like :D 	
[13:51]	Torben 	awww 	
[13:51]	Erinyse Planer 	no but you could ban the residents that did it 	
[13:51]	Harlow Heslop 	and sorry if i'm standing on oyu. on my bad computer cannot see a thing. 	
[13:51]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	back 	
[13:51]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	rand, im me please 	
[13:51]	Torben 	welcome back 	
[13:51]	ÑŠÕ½ÑŠÑŠlÎµ ÑŠlÖ…Õ¡ÎµÐ³	ty torben ^.^ 	
[13:51]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	tis relevant and imporant 	
[13:51]	Peewee Musytari 	rand....on the lindens home KB page, it says you can change linden homes 5 times in 24 hours, I think it is 5 times an hour (or used to be) is there somewhere u can check if that really changed or if its a typo?....I didn`t edit it in case its actually been changed to 24 hours 	
[13:51]	Adamburp Adamczyk 	important* 	
[13:53]	Torben 	uh oh, everybody went speechless 	
[13:53]	Arawn Graalrd 	Arawn Graalrd speaks 	
[13:53]	Marianne McCann 	Sorry, Hadda IM I hadda attend to 	
[13:53]	Peewee Musytari 	all reading wiki pages lol 	
[13:53]	Rand Linden 	Peewee - I will look into that 	
[13:53]	Arawn Graalrd 	/arf 	
[13:53]	Peewee Musytari 	ty 	
[13:54]	Torben 	yay, welcome back everybody - I was scared for a second 	
[13:54]	Jeremy Linden 	! 	
[13:54]	Marianne McCann 	o.O 	
[13:54]	Peewee Musytari 	Peewee Musytari holds torben`s hand...don`t be skeered 	
[13:54]	Torben 	awww thank you! 	
[13:54]	Peewee Musytari 	hehe 	
[13:55]	Marianne McCann 	Well, I need t'run along, looks like 	
[13:55]	Marianne McCann 	Have fun, all! 	
[13:55]	Torben 	so maybe the last name fans need to visit all usergroups available and raise awareness 	
[13:55]	Jeremy Linden 	Thanks for coming! 	
[13:56]	Torben 	bye bye Mari 	
[13:56]	Torben 	Torben thinks about signs and sit-ins 	
[13:56]	Rand Linden 	Yep, we're out of time...thanks everybody! 	
[13:56]	Lyrical Popstar 	thanks guys :) 	
[13:56]	Arawn Graalrd 	Usergroup Incompleteness Awareness Week? 	
[13:56]	Harlow Heslop 	have a good one! :) 	
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