User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-08-13

== Topic & Summary ==
User Experience Interest Group Discussion for August 13, 2009.
Topic: Open Topic.
== Summary ==
There was no set topic this week. We discussed several things, including:
* Coordination and collaboration between viewer projects
* Managing viewer codebases, sharing features and patches between projects
* Hiding fun easter eggs in viewers
* Graphics, activities, or games during the loading / teleport screens
== Transcript ==
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli: 	So, open topic today. Anyone have anything they'd like to discuss?
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	/no
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	....
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah, I do, but only if nobody else does
[15:18]	Morgaine Dinova: 	How do people feel about all the viewers, seem to be a lot of them. And is Snowglobe undermining community viewers?
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted: 	or if morgaine doesn't bring it up first :)
[15:19]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Trying to keep myself awake with a silly question, lol
[15:19]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm. one which is not that good to discuss without preparation - so maybe for a not too distant future meeting: cooperation between viewer projects
[15:19]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I was going to ask what the latest ui features were in all the viewers out there, what ones people have liked, thought could be improved
[15:19]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Interesting idea, Armin
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Snowglobe is Linden-backed,s so it would of course gain more recognition.
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Especially when you have your friendly propaganda mentor Torley on your side...
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick sees Snowglobe as putting the unity back in Community ;)	Aimee Trescothick sees Snowglobe as putting the unity back in Community ;)
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth: 	UI Improvements? There are recently UI improvements?
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well Emerald has double-click TP, a radar, and Lua scripting built in (although the scripting isn't actually bound to anything useful that I can see, yet, but it will).
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick: 	(or if you ask Prok, putting the Communist in, but that's another story)
[15:21]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hahahaha
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli laughs 	Jacek Antonelli laughs
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But communism is good for software development!
[15:22]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Poor Prokie, must be having a fit over all these open source viewers now.
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It just doesn't fit the production of our material world, that is all.
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	He's probably disappointed that none of them have removed Search, though
[15:24]	Armin Weatherwax: 	I think it would be a good idea to work togetether for single projects so that every project can have its profile and at the same time not reinventing the wheel over and over again
[15:24]	Armin Weatherwax: 	- typos
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes, that sounds like a good idea, Armin
[15:25]	Morgaine Dinova: 	If everyone used Git, would be easy to import random enhancements.
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or bzr. Or hg...
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli: 	It would. Silly old-fashioned SVN users!
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or darcs!
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	These distributed VCSs can't pull from each other very well yet.
[15:26]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I've only known one project ever that uses bzr, and only know LL to be interested in Hg
[15:26]	Armin Weatherwax: 	git2svn is nice (IF it works)
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	bzr focuses on User Experience (...) as opposed to performance, and is developed and endorsed by Canonical.
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Although honestly, as long as there's a convenient way to view the changes between revisions and download them as a diff, any of them are fine to "import" to the others
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth realizes he's preaching to the choir. 	Geneko Nemeth realizes he's preaching to the choir.
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehehe
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	does emerald have a vcs?
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	last I checked you downoaded a zip
[15:29]	Armin Weatherwax: 	git is the first version control system i actively use - any upsides of hg?
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrm. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to set up a patch repository, where people can submit patches, categorized and tagged, for other viewers to use
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ooh!
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I'd like that
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli: 	McCabe: I'm pretty sure Emerald uses SVN
[15:29]	Aimee Trescothick: 	better windoze support is the usual advantage touted of Hg over git
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Windows support? Hah! They all fail!
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Git is a bit of a strange beast, but I'm very fond of it. It serves me well. :D
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli: 	It took a while before I became proficient with it, of course. And it can be confusing for new users. (*recalls McCabe's "f--- you git" commits* ;) )
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Emerald people can't even get their act together to the extent of using the same archive naming convention from release to release.
[15:33]	Armin Weatherwax: 	thats too true, Morgaine
[15:33]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And the primary developer is a secretive recluse, the second dev has police as both parents and seems to be mostly concerned with locking everything up.
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ouch
[15:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Plus they don't bother with anything resembling documentation or discussion.
[15:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	But Emerald has a lot of good features, dranted.
[15:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	granted*
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli: 	They do
[15:35]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i love the doubleclick tp
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hippo's died it seems, no updates to website nor viewer for months.
[15:36]	Armin Weatherwax: 	and the idea of the command line chatbar
[15:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah. me too, I use that a lot when on Emerald, it's funny as hell. and very convenient.
[15:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Great virtual travel
[15:37]	Armin Weatherwax: 	nah, pull (er whatever pull is in svn) from hippo svn, they are extremely uptodate
[15:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Meerkat's lagging a lot --- their devs are complaining that they have no manpower. Which is kind of stupid, as they're doing their complaining at Opensim meetings, and Opensim devs have disallowed any contact with GPL developers on pain of 6 month ban from commits.
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ouch
[15:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Damn place is full of religious priests instead of developers
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Only six months?
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli: 	That's just... *facepalm*
[15:39]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Totally moronic, since it achieves nothing.
[15:39]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Don't really know anything about the others.
[15:39]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh, a status report on Impru would be nice :-)))
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, it would. A status to report would be nice, too.. :\
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe
[15:40]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Haha
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh yeah yeah!
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hrm... there's a lot up on github that still needs to be merged (a lot from armin)
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I've been so loaded up and burnt out with work that I've barely touched it in months
[15:41]	Armin Weatherwax: 	and a imprudence - meerkat - emerald - <other innovation oriented project> allience would be a great thing
[15:42]	Aimee Trescothick knows that feeling well :S 	Aimee Trescothick knows that feeling well :S
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli: 	It would. I think Meerkat would be open to some collaboration, at least
[15:42]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hahaha, Alliance. Which makes LL the Hoarde :-)
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth: 	UVWDevs, for United Virtual World Developers?
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha agreed
[15:43]	Aimee Trescothick: 	Union of Soviet Socialist Programmers?
[15:43]	Armin Weatherwax: 	LOL
[15:43]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Ooooooh, Prok baiting!!!!
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hahaha
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I like it!
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Union of Simulated Socialist Programmers, maybe.
[15:43]	Armin Weatherwax: 	nothing against having LL ideas into it
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Communism is dead, or at least, in hibernation.
[15:44]	Aimee Trescothick: 	couldn't think of a word for developers beginning with R
[15:44]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Union of Socialist Smartass Programmers
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Rrogrammers!
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Rrogrammers? Scooby Doo could be our mascot
[15:44]	Aimee Trescothick: 	Rrofl
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	XD
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth: 	... OMG someone actually sat on it?
[15:45]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Union of Sleepy Socialist Smartass Rogrammers
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ruh roh! Rhe rerge rommit railed! Retter rollback!
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth: 	... the wrong way?
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Fission Mailed!
[15:45]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i assume there are a lot things which cant get into the oficial viewer - even for good reasons- which would be good for other projects
[15:45]	Garn Conover: 	your good lol
[15:45]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hiya Garn :-)
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ahoy Garn
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Indeed. Like how official Second Life client can't use other GPL'd stuff like Clearlooks.
[15:46]	Garn Conover woofs softly 	Garn Conover woofs softly
[15:46]	Garn Conover pokes McCabe with wingtip 	Garn Conover pokes McCabe with wingtip
[15:47]	Garn Conover snorts 	Garn Conover snorts
[15:47]	Garn Conover: 	thankies :)
[15:48]	Armin Weatherwax: 	just look at vectorform ...
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha sorry
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli: 	How do you mean, Armin?
[15:49]	Armin Weatherwax: 	well - its started and contains good ideas - but for some reason linden didnt go with it
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ah, right
[15:49]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i think they have more they can contribute
[15:49]	Aimee Trescothick: 	some parts of it may well surface in slog
[15:49]	Aimee Trescothick: 	I mean SL09
[15:49]	Armin Weatherwax: 	but not put into their viewers
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Although I think they might use it in Viewer 2.0. At least, the leaked early one one used it... I'm not sure that means anything, though
[15:51]	Armin Weatherwax: 	I want to see the 2.0 viewer live efore i believe it exists :P
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehehe
[15:52]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It's just an UI change, right?
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I've used the leaked one. But after that article, LL went "Whoa hang on now, that's not what it's gonna be like!"
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Morgaine: Who knows? LL won't say anything about it. I think it's mostly UI changes, though
[15:53]	Garn Conover: 	Morg *points to IM* quick q
[15:53]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Sorry, mostly asleep
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	aww
[15:54]	Garn Conover: 	same here
[15:55]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I just yawned thanks to all this sleep talk
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova: 	lol
[15:55]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hehe :)
[15:55]	Garn Conover high paws Morgaine 	Garn Conover high paws Morgaine
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth is still away reading Tales of the Questor. 	Geneko Nemeth is still away reading Tales of the Questor.
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I'm counting Nessies
[15:55]	Aimee Trescothick eyes the katana cautiously incase Morgaine falls asleep 	Aimee Trescothick eyes the katana cautiously incase Morgaine falls asleep
[15:56]	Armin Weatherwax: 	waves to Morgaine
[15:56]	Garn Conover: 	brb
[15:56]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lucid dreams
[15:56]	Morgaine Dinova turns slowly to not slice off Aimee's head 	Morgaine Dinova turns slowly to not slice off Aimee's head
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you know what... I think I'm going to create my own easter egg. I haven't done that in ages
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	a secret text game in the chat bar :D
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Haha
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	type /xyzzy to activate!
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Of course :-)
[15:57]	Aimee Trescothick: 	minimap space invaders anyone?
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli: 	:D
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hahaha!
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'd like to see tiny raccoons in the UI everywhere.
[15:58]	Armin Weatherwax: 	please, me, aimee
[15:58]	Morgaine Dinova: 	You are in a grid of plain simulators, all alike
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted snickers 	McCabe Maxsted snickers
[15:58]	Aimee Trescothick: 	http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/23058/MiniMap+Invaders.jpg
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli: 	You are likely to be eaten by gray goo.
[15:59]	Armin Weatherwax: 	:)))))))))))))
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Although before that I'd prefer to see nicer teleport screens first...
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hha, nice invaders
[15:59]	Aimee Trescothick: 	sooooo nearly got that into Snowglobe
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli grins 	Jacek Antonelli grins
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	There was an online game that would display a really mesemerizing loading screen when you switch regions, sorta like a screensaver where circles of runes appear and spread out like waves.
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I wish Second Life could be a bit more like that...
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I wish it could be anything except like First Life
[16:01]	Armin Weatherwax: 	opensim tps take soo long -- if working at all -having space invaders in between ...
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Heh...
[16:01]	Morgaine Dinova: 	WB Garn
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Squash the Bug minigame
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or Shake the Linden Trees
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Pin the Plywood Cube on the Newbie
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Lol...
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted: 	more like nail O.o
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	No, "attach"!
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Don't bother, they'll put it on their own heads soon enough
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli doesn't nail newbies, thankyouverymuch 	Jacek Antonelli doesn't nail newbies, thankyouverymuch
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted: 	:P
[16:04]	Garn Conover hands McCabe a puzzle to keep him awake 	Garn Conover hands McCabe a puzzle to keep him awake
[16:04]	Garn Conover: 	they can't Morgaine :(
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted: 	wha--?
[16:04]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Puyo puyo!
[16:05]	Garn Conover: 	they switched it to right hand so no more boxheads!
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth: 	We could put a raccoon-matching game into the loading screen, so...
[16:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Aww
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	No boxheads... no ruths... LL is killing SL culture!
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's just improving User Experience.
[16:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	lol
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	if only they had some sort of town hall where we could go to shout them out....
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hahaha McCabe
[16:06]	Geneko Nemeth can't resist. "Bwahahahaha!" 	Geneko Nemeth can't resist. "Bwahahahaha!"
[16:06]	Aimee Trescothick: 	time I was headin home
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	"Why are you trying to kill SL?" -- "Well, we're not really-" -- "ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHY? WHY?"
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	ni ni Aimee
[16:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	call glen beck! prepare the signs! chant the TOS!
[16:06]	Aimee Trescothick: 	/mewaves
[16:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	aw, gnight aimee!
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	NN Aimee :-)
[16:06]	Garn Conover: 	cya Aimee
[16:06]	Armin Weatherwax: 	nini :)
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And I'm zombified, so heading to bed.
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	NN all :-)
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ni ni Morg! Sleep well
[16:07]	Armin Weatherwax: 	Nini
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks. :-) TC all :-)
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	sleep well!
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Alright, I guess we'll wrap it up, then
[16:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	All right, an early finish.
[16:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	What shall we do about the chairs, though?
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Burn them!
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	weekly imprudence meeting ? any thoughts before i go to sleep anso ?
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'm no mage...
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	also*
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	None.
[16:10]	Garn Conover: 	i can burn :)
[16:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Armin: Still need to sit down and find a time. Maybe Tuesdays at noon?
[16:11]	Armin Weatherwax: 	uk noon?
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	SLT noon
[16:11]	Garn Conover: 	well i wont be there lol
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Bleh. Scheduling is a pain.
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Just use the UXIG hour.
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nobody's gonna mind.
[16:12]	Garn Conover: 	yea i know i just get home myself 2 hours ago normally
[16:12]	McCabe Maxsted: 	eh
[16:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Well, the UXIG hour isn't that great either
[16:13]	Garn Conover: 	i forget about this one
[16:13]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah. no hurry. and maybe even weekly is too often. just see whats working
[16:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	McCabe has classes soon after, and Euros are asleep
[16:13]	Garn Conover: 	lol
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah
[16:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I'll probably set up a mailing list. Maybe we can just do weekly email chats or something.
[16:13]	Garn Conover: 	sounds liek the problems we have @ NCI with meetings lol
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or IRC. I set up an IRC channel... #imprudence or freenode. But no one hangs out there (even me, lol)
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh, there's a channel?
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'll be in!
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, there might be more people if I bothered to announce it...
[16:14]	Armin Weatherwax: 	:) ok. I'm going to have closed eye VR now
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay, ni ni Armin! Happy hallucinations
[16:15]	Garn Conover: 	there used to be a mentor IRC
[16:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	:)
[16:15]	Garn Conover: 	lol
[16:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not that It would make any difference since I'm pretty lazy and never writes C++ codde.
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	McCabe, remind me this weekend to set up a mailing list and announce it and the IRC