User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-03-19

== Topic & Summary ==
User Experience Interest Group Discussion for March 19, 2009.
Topic: Product Vendors, Shopping Previews.
No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add a summary if you have the time.
=== Links ===
== Transcript ==
[15:06]	Charlette Proto: 	so it it avatar interactions today? pointing a hand at Jacek
[15:06]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Eep!
[15:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	User <==> Object interactions
[15:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I wish we could pull some objects out here.
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	ah cool
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	first I want to be able to point at things without going to rdit
[15:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	we could drag them from other parcels while sitting on 'em; havesomething to show?
[15:07]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hi Morgaine :)
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	edit*
[15:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy morgaine!
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Moragaine
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hiya Morgaine
[15:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I've got... nothing.
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But ideas.
[15:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	How is everybody?
[15:08]	Armin Weatherwax: 	But ideas are the opposite of nothing
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Three assignments due today! Done: 0/3
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	XD
[15:09]	Charlette Proto: 	so what do you think stops us from being able to point at things eg in a shop
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hopefully everyone will have used, or at least seen someone else used, the things we're going to talk about. Product vendors, vehicles, etc.
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted: 	...inworld condom machines....
[15:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	<_<
[15:09]	Charlette Proto: 	well go do your assignments Geneko, UXIG will not go away
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted coughs. I mean, so I've heard. continue 	McCabe Maxsted coughs. I mean, so I've heard. continue
[15:09]	Morgaine Dinova: 	lol
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	So, the idea today is to talk about different ways we interact with objects inworld, and how to improve those interactions
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Let's start off with shopping. Yay, shopping!
[15:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	think i have a condom machin in my inv ...
[15:10]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oooh, nice topic
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	For vendors... much of them are kinda like HUDs. They are, kinda two dimensional.
[15:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yep, a lot of 2D signs or screens with buttons
[15:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Some 3D holo-vendors though. And animation vendors that you pose on.
[15:12]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, sometimes I've wished I could just look at a list of what's for sale in a specific store; I'm not the type to browse much though
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	OK pointing at things??? without trying to edit - first step to shopping
[15:12]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Exactly McCabe!
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Heh, I can sense Charlette has an obsession with pointing at things today :P
[15:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	McCabe++; Were I to open a store, I'll have a button that pops out a store catalog.
[15:12]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe nice to know I'm not hte only one
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	very good point - a catalogue vendoe like Xstreet but instore
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Probably not in-world... there's just not enough prims.
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted waves to jumpman 	McCabe Maxsted waves to jumpman
[15:13]	Jumpman Lane: 	hi
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	no like a webpage geneko
[15:13]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hi
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	ine prim
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	one
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	*
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Exacly .... no. An actual web page.
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	That's an interesting idea. You know the place listings in Search show the objects there that are for sale
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Easier to add stuff this way.
[15:14]	Charlette Proto: 	yep could have categories if the webpage was active
[15:14]	Morgaine Dinova: 	HTTP-in will help, no? You get a catalogue, and by clicking on an entry the vendor could get your selection directly, instead of wading through shop navigation.
[15:14]	Charlette Proto: 	but that is a problem - clicking inside inline webpage to cativate links
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	And it seems possible to have a window in the viewer that lists all the nearby objects that are for sale / have pay scripts
[15:15]	Franchezca Dominquez: 	hi everyone
[15:15]	Franchezca Dominquez: 	:)
[15:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Doesn't really help when I'm in a shopping centre.
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hi Franchezca
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy franchezca
[15:15]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Franchesca
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Too many unrelated results, Geneko?
[15:15]	Franchezca Dominquez: 	i m Jumpy's friend :)
[15:15]	Jumpman Lane: 	i8'm fran's friend :)
[15:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not really... I'm just more concerned abou tseeing the items one store has, not results from all stores.
[15:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm. atm the thing that would help best is faster texture loading
[15:16]	Geneko Nemeth: 	A list of vending machines doesn't give any info on what the machines sell, anyway.
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ah, true, it wouldn't help so much for multi-vendors
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Except to help you find them, maybe
[15:16]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And if they are hidden inside vendors, LL's search won't be able to find them.
[15:16]	Jumpman Lane: 	wtf ya yappin about?
[15:16]	McCabe Maxsted: 	do people tend to give multivendors unique names?
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah. Mostly with shop names.
[15:17]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Jumpman: We're talking about ways to make shopping in SL better. Later we'll talk about other things as well
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	Jumpman do you really want to be ejected??????
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth: 	....
[15:18]	Charlette Proto: 	simple matter
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Anyway.
[15:18]	Jacek Antonelli: 	What if there was a way for vendors to broadcast information about the items they can sell?
[15:18]	Morgaine Dinova: 	We're kind of stuck with what SL provides and with what vendors currently do. But in principle we could make a shop-content listing facility in Imprudence, and a bespoke in-world object to populate it from a notecard say.
[15:19]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Even make money for IImprudence from it :P
[15:19]	Charlette Proto: 	shopping centre problem is very complex - cooperation of many stakeholders - cold we focus on individual stores
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli: 	If only we had script -> viewer communication, there could be a channel for vendors to periodically say what they offer. *glares at LL*
[15:20]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Heh
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted: 	mm, yeah
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Then there's the problem of vendors lying about the prices or items they carry.
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	k
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I suppose, Geneko. But you'd find out as soon as you tried to buy it, right? And if they were lying, the store would get a bad reputation
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	We could build in an alert, so if the in-viewer price doesn't matche the price demanded on buying, you get an alert.
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Good idea, too
[15:21]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm. vendors often also lying about perms, too
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Although it might be hard to do for multi-vendors, figuring out which advertised item is the one currently being sold
[15:22]	Morgaine Dinova: 	True Armin
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ooh, I've been stung by tha tone yeah
[15:22]	Charlette Proto: 	if anyone is here to troll could you kindly leave now
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Charlette, chill out.
[15:22]	Charlette Proto: 	Jacek you don't see the problem
[15:23]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm cool as ice
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Actually if people use XStreet / OnRez vendors, it may be possible for LL to put them into search items.
[15:23]	Charlette Proto: 	but not them
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't see the problem either. They are not spamming messeages or doing stupid stuff.
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Unless there's something happening on Voice, I don't think that's trolling.
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Better integration between XStreet and in-world shopping would be an interesting improvement
[15:23]	Charlette Proto: 	fine I'll keep it to myself
[15:24]	Jumpman Lane: 	hehehe must be meh ao lmao
[15:24]	Jumpman Lane: 	but it always does this
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But yeah, having three people here that aren't very interested in the discussion seems to be a bit annoying....
[15:24]	Charlette Proto: 	eep see this ^^^
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah, would be nice. I imagine that's one of the projects someone's being beaten over the head about
[15:24]	Jumpman Lane: 	im listening
[15:24]	Charlette Proto: 	anyway...
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Also, random thought: it would be really nice if you could preview clothes and attachments before you bought them
[15:24]	Jumpman Lane: 	not interrupting
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Without lame demos
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oooh, yesh
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, my thought exactly!
[15:24]	Jumpman Lane: 	so what is ur problem?
[15:25]	Charlette Proto: 	*-*`````aaHahahahahahahHaaa`````*-*
[15:25]	Charlette Proto: 	previe in the store would be fantastic, the pics lie
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Like, have a nice preview window / "dressing room". I think WoW has something like that
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So does Mabinogi.
[15:25]	Veronica2vixen Devoix: 	Hello lindens
[15:25]	McCabe Maxsted: 	how would it work?
[15:25]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Use the same rule as for trolls: don't feed the dickheads.
[15:25]	Charlette Proto: 	agree Jacek but would add this is the same as inventory preview
[15:25]	Jacek Antonelli: 	You can see what an item would look like when you're shopping at the auction house, it pops up a window showing your character, but with the item equipped
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli: 	So you can see how awesome you'd look with a new sword
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Before you spend 1000g on it
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted looks pretty damn sweet in his mental image.. 	McCabe Maxsted looks pretty damn sweet in his mental image..
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli: 	In theory the same thing could be done in SL -- open a dressing room window that shows a copy of your avatar, but with the clothing or attachment equipped
[15:27]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That may happen after interop Jacek, but it's pretty much certain that LL aren't going to give us a preview facility, because it would require their whol inventory system to be redesigned.
[15:27]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Maybe even let you adjust the position and size of the attachment, or modify the clothes (if you'd be able to do that with the real thing)
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Well, yeah. But LL isn't going to do much of anything useful, in my opinion :D
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted is wondering how it could be done without violating permissions 	McCabe Maxsted is wondering how it could be done without violating permissions
[15:28]	Morgaine Dinova: 	MMOX and interop will force a sane inventory and object access system on them, so we'll be able to add preview to viewers.
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Good
[15:28]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Long way off though
[15:28]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i dont understand whats the point about preview: isnt it just providing a virtual rezzing option on the server
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli thinks LL needs certain things forced on them. >:) 	Jacek Antonelli thinks LL needs certain things forced on them. >:)
[15:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(and/or in them....)
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, I think it would be a "temporary inventory" or something
[15:29]	McCabe Maxsted whistles and hides his nifty new sword 	McCabe Maxsted whistles and hides his nifty new sword
[15:29]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Looked rusty to me :P
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	easies way to force things on LL is to make it work like Xstreet and theu'll buy it later
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	XStreet is Horible.
[15:29]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Well, if the clothing/object data could be retrieved from the asset server (it can't right now), then it'd be possible to create a copy of your avatar wearing it
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli: 	And likewise possible to have previews of inventory items
[15:30]	SaveMe Oh: 	Is Benjamin not at home?
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli: 	But as Morgaine said, that would require a whole redesign of the system
[15:30]	SaveMe Oh: 	and does he know you are all here?
[15:30]	Charlette Proto: 	Xstreet however has a severe paradigm problem - Second Life™ was going to be an ultimate shopping experience and no just a location for a terminal
[15:30]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i mean if you "really" rezz something or do it in some imaginary place - that cant be that difficult
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	LL has pretty much abandoned the UX office hour.
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But yeah, he knows weare all here.
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli: 	SaveMe: Benjamin has pretty much cancelled his office hour, but we still come here to discuss things
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah; what's to stop johnny-go-douchebag from just keeping it, though
[15:30]	Pat69 Munro: 	Well if the merchants had a store and showed their product in 3D it would work better too
[15:30]	Morgaine Dinova: 	We were discussing the "anteroom" concept on MMOX --- a place "in your mind", as opposed to in a public virtual world, and a single keystroke switches between the current in-world region and the vision in your mind, where you have previews etc.
[15:30]	SaveMe Oh: 	Benji was complaining
[15:31]	Jumpman Lane: 	benji?
[15:31]	SaveMe Oh: 	about pseudo intellectuals invading his house
[15:31]	Geneko Nemeth: 	[citation needed]
[15:31]	Jumpman Lane: 	ouch
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli: 	McCabe: it wouldn't go in your inventory, just show on a preview avatar in a window. Close the window, and poof
[15:31]	SaveMe Oh: 	He said, looks like i owe a nerd zoo now
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova: 	http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/mmox/current/msg01174.html
[15:32]	Charlette Proto: 	*-*`````aaHahahahahahahHaaa`````*-*
[15:32]	Charlette Proto: 	Morgaine - hope my inhead view of the world would not be visible to anyone else
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli reminds everyone about the lovely Mute feature SL has. ;) 	Jacek Antonelli reminds everyone about the lovely Mute feature SL has. ;)
[15:32]	Veronica2vixen Devoix: 	AAAH save me OOH whats UP Bitch yay i missed
[15:32]	McCabe Maxsted laughs. I rather enjoy being part of a nerd zoo. It's good company 	McCabe Maxsted laughs. I rather enjoy being part of a nerd zoo. It's good company
[15:32]	SaveMe Oh: 	Benji was already wondering if he could mute all here
[15:32]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Anteroom there, as a means of providing portal access or even full zone continuity despite the worlds owner only offering teleport.
[15:32]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah but I'm enjoing the view of Veronic'a backside Jacek
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli reads 	Jacek Antonelli reads
[15:33]	Charlette Proto: 	nother on hehe
[15:33]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ok, lets say the "anteroom" is kind of what a holodeck is in startreck - what woulld you call it in computer scientists terms ? preview cache or something like that ?
[15:33]	Morgaine Dinova: 	While you look at her ass, I'm looking at the dick on her forehead.
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Local view? Local parallel dimension?
[15:34]	Armin Weatherwax: 	dick? forehead ? i missed siomething
[15:34]	Charlette Proto: 	good move Morgaine, the tag will do for an AR
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't think anyone has done anything like that.
[15:34]	Crystal Mizser: 	hello....
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth chuckles. 	Geneko Nemeth chuckles.
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy, garn!
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hi Garn!
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Garn
[15:35]	Garn Conover: 	talk about a messed up week..
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hey Garn
[15:35]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hi garn
[15:35]	Garn Conover: 	whats the topic?
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	welcome to the twilight zone Garn
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It's quite nice to think of an anteroom type idea. You could put all matter of portals in there, to your favourite places.
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	manner*
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Avatar-to-Object interaction. But currently we are talking about viewer-local words.
[15:35]	Crystal Mizser: 	Where is ben linden?
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	*worlds. I thought the last think we talked about was shop preview...
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Indeed, Morgaine. Like a room with doors where you can peek into far-away sims :D
[15:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hehe, hadn't though about doors that actually close. That's kind of spookie
[15:36]	Charlette Proto: 	crystal are you full of lead?
[15:36]	Jumpman Lane: 	that's tREKER
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay, anyway. Yeah, let's backtract to shopping and user <==> object interaction
[15:37]	Charlette Proto: 	U must be a techie Veronika because ...
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(btw, random question: someting I've been wondering related to preview, is it possible to tell if a texture is a sculptie or not just by loading it?)
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth gave you /facepaw (1). 	Geneko Nemeth gave you /facepaw (1).
[15:37]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha thanks
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	SaveMe Oh, this is it. Continue doing this and you will be Reported.
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrmmm. I don't think so McCabe. Except maybe if there was a test to see whether the resulting scuplty would be "vertex vomit" or not
[15:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Doesn't seem to work on tinies Gen
[15:38]	Jumpman Lane: 	wtf ya doin now save geeze cant take u anywhere
[15:38]	Charlette Proto: 	perhaps we need a meeting spot outside of LL mayhem
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hmm, okay, that's what I was thinking but wanted to be sure
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	anyway, shopping
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I agree, this place is too laggy and really not good for meetings.
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Honestly, I think it wasn't the greatest idea to make sculpty textures the same item type as regular textures
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not even for Linden meetings. No wonder they never come here.
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah, heh
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah. Any suggestions on an alternative location?
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted: 	they're currently feeling the pain of that in the flexisculpt thread
[15:40]	Garn Conover: 	agreed Jacek
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I just have my opensim..
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Maybe we could talk to Lex Neva about setting up headquarters on her parcel at Hippotropolis
[15:41]	Charlette Proto: 	you are retarde SaveMe
[15:41]	Jumpman Lane: 	hehehehehehehe
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted: 	aw, good idea :)
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted: 	we could build then too
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Don't give her ideas.
[15:42]	Jumpman Lane: 	see i told u u were a tard save lmao
[15:42]	Charlette Proto: 	I'll give everyone LMs to my home in Real Life™ - is Australia OK?
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Guys, if they're bothering you, just mute them or ignore them. There's no need to let them disrupt the conversation
[15:42]	Jumpman Lane: 	what is the next topic
[15:42]	Jumpman Lane: 	vendors wont improve shopping
[15:43]	Jumpman Lane: 	if ur product is good enough people will do anything to buy it
[15:43]	Armin Weatherwax: 	nice thing to visually mute
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted: 	right, sorry, back to shopping
[15:43]	Garn Conover: 	i dont mute, i enjoy watching ppl being idiots :) plus ban;logs are a hoot
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Let's move on to another type of interaction with objects
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli: 	How about... hrm, chairs and sitting?
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah - what about pointing at things in the store???
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Sitting on anything without a sit target is a PITA
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah, too true
[15:44]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yus
[15:44]	Jumpman Lane: 	what is pita exactly?
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	particularly walls and such
[15:44]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Charlette: if I say "Yeah, it would be nice to be able to point at things. Maybe if you click and hold on something it would make your avatar point at it", will you be satisfied?
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	the pics on the wall often need to pointed at to make convo about coosing items practical
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted: 	good thing we have built in pointer particles
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	like in edit but without using etif function
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah. The pointer particles aren't very good though
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	yep that is what I'm thinking of
[15:46]	Jumpman Lane: 	but wtf would u point at lmao
[15:46]	Morgaine Dinova: 	This reminds me of previous discussions about the "target" concept, and the fact that we don't have an explicit target shown despite often using one.
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli: 	The visual effect could be improved.
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted nods 	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli: 	My thoughts exactly, Morgaine
[15:46]	Charlette Proto: 	maybe with some sceletal constraints to make it look better
[15:46]	Garn Conover: 	Jumpman, a lot
[15:46]	Pat69 Munro: 	Well maybe Australia did have some fires but at least we didn't crush ourselves out of existance by rezzing a megaprim over our head :P
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted: 	it would be nice if all targets glowed
[15:47]	Charlette Proto: 	OK could a meta key + click be defined without problems to use as a pointer
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, or some other visual target. Maybe a sort of flashlight effect coming out of their hand, and a glowing circle where they are pointing?
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Although it could be annoying to have a lot of people pointing at things at the same time
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	yep a torchlight or lazer pointer efect
[15:48]	Garn Conover: 	Jacek we have to remember this needs to be hidden enough not to distract builders or get in their way
[15:48]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah
[15:48]	Morgaine Dinova: 	For example, sometimes you want to pick the very edge of something, or you want to select one tiny item out of a bunch of other tiny ones, and you have no way of knowing what you're actually picking unless the object gives you direct feedback. A target field would help a lot.
[15:48]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hrm, yeah, that reminds me of something lex griped about a while back: no option to hide the outlines of prims while building; those are just pixel-wide and they get in the way..
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Oh, I was just thinking about making an option to hide the "expensive" outlines, the thicker ones
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	They really bog down the viewer when you have more than a hundred or so objects selected
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted thinks you need to ;) 	McCabe Maxsted thinks you need to ;)
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Just the computation involved in deciding how to render them, I think
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not to the endless corn field?
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	could pointing work like EDIT LINKED PARTS then
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli: 	In what way, Charlette?
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted: 	huh, I'm surprised it doesn't calculate and render only exposed edges
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	to select one thing (picture) only but not the whole group
[15:51]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Sometimes rendering non-exposed edges can be beneficial if you want to know "where the *$^@ is that prim"
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I think it does, McCabe -- and that's the problem. It's computationally expensive. Very expensive.
[15:51]	Charlette Proto: 	I do edit trick all the time when shopping with friends
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ah I see
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Even with my powerful computer, selecting 500+ objects slows SL to a crawl
[15:51]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Of course not. You are welcome to stay, just please be mindful of others. ^^
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted: 	perhaps a new form of selection IS in order then; to differentiate between build and not build?
[15:52]	Charlette Proto: 	but the linked parts selecttion si very fast
[15:52]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't see the AO being a problem, by the way.
[15:52]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(And I routinely have to select thousands of prims worth of objects as part of my job)
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Well, if we were doing a target mechanism, I'd want it to point at an exact location in space, not necessarily the center of an object
[15:54]	Jacek Antonelli: 	So if there's a picture on the wall of a person and I click on their nose, the target should show up on their nose >:)
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	*grins*
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	isn't a point in space picking the nearest object on the pointing trojectory a raycast to one prim which is a target
[15:54]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ah. one thing i have to think about all the time is why when leaving a party locally the dance animation looks kike stopped but you keep dancing for others
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Charlette: Yeah, but the viewer also calculates where on the face have you touched.
[15:55]	Garn Conover: 	that would be useful
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	only Jumpman is dancing on my screen
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Charlette: yes, it'd be calculated by projecting your click through 3D space and seeing what it hits first
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli: 	And where
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(The viewer already can do this)
[15:56]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hes dancing 4 me, 2
[15:56]	McCabe Maxsted hopes to skin his targeting system as a lightning bolt 	McCabe Maxsted hopes to skin his targeting system as a lightning bolt
[15:56]	Charlette Proto: 	yes I realise and eg a huge transparent penis should be excluded since invisible
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe
[15:56]	Charlette Proto: 	same goes for a nose with transparent states
[15:56]	Jacek Antonelli: 	There'd need to be a way of easily managing whose targets you can see, though.
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Especially if McCabe is shooting lightning bolts all over the place
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	true Jacek
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe
[15:57]	Pat69 Munro: 	If you mute them they go grey and stop dancing :)
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	not really Pat69
[15:57]	Garn Conover: 	cya Jacek :)
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	but now AR stopped him
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	If only visual mute can be separated from text mute and voice mute.
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don' tthink that's worthy of ARing yet.
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	AR is the best mute if you have a good reason
[15:58]	Charlette Proto: 	you were wrong geneko
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah because he's in your face...
[15:58]	Charlette Proto: 	yep
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Like, couldn't you move a bit?
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(sorry, I'm just wondering if it's already possible to change the selection particle)
[15:58]	Charlette Proto: 	OK what about pointing being visible to friends only
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's possible to change the colour, but that's it.
[15:59]	Pat69 Munro: 	Hmm he seemed to stop dancing as I muted himm I'm running 1.22
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	well because pointing is not a texture so it doesn't need to load anything
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted: 	bah, I was hoping it used a texture that'd easily be modded
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	that is good enough to have colour variations
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, but I wish the particles can be changed.
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Looks kinda boring.
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	There they goes~
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(wonder if this means time to finally peek at how particles work)
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova: 	The controls aren't really powerful enough at present. We should be able to make specific persons disappear altogether along with all their objects.
[16:00]	Pat69 Munro: 	It also worked on his alts SaveMe &Veronica
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	true Geneko, be nice to make different patterns
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted: 	agreed morgaine
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted: 	heh, I posted something about banlines on the JIRa earlier
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted: 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11173?focusedCommentId=103376&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_103376 <-- yay for having way too many ff tabs open
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I didn't say anything abou ttewaking particle parameters.
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(The selection particles are moddable in theory, by the way)
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted nods 	McCabe Maxsted nods
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I think that'd be a fun little attition; that and smileys
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	for some reason, I've been wishing lately the viewer had smileys
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	particle patterns should be defined according to application of the pointer and that would no be a big thing to add
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	may be usefull for many things since so much can be done with particles
[16:02]	Morgaine Dinova: 	McCabe: that's a totally excellent comment you wrote, agreed 100%
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	blowing kisses for example
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't like smilies. -_-
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Optional smileys
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted: 	woo! stopped clocks
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	sure smiles too
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Google ones are an exception.
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm not limited to foreplay in my interactions
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted patches the viewer to autoreplace -_- with :P just for geneko 	McCabe Maxsted patches the viewer to autoreplace -_- with :P just for geneko
[16:03]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ty :)
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli: 	haha McCabe
[16:04]	Geneko Nemeth slaps McCabe with a sensor bar. 	Geneko Nemeth slaps McCabe with a sensor bar.
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oof!
[16:04]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hey, you could patch the viewer to remove all references to Prok while you're at it --- millions will be grateful :P
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hahahaha
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli snickers 	Jacek Antonelli snickers
[16:04]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I COULD!
[16:05]	Pat69 Munro: 	LOL
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I wonder if that'd finally move me up to FIC status?
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	*stares jealously at Jacek*
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or change his name to "Voldemort"
[16:05]	Armin Weatherwax: 	omg
[16:05]	Armin Weatherwax: 	Dun dun DUUUUUN! O_o
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehehe
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ooh, I need that sound effect
[16:05]	Morgaine Dinova purrs 	Morgaine Dinova purrs
[16:05]	Armin Weatherwax: 	sec
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	maybe an alert..... the profile that shall not be named
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova mews 	Morgaine Dinova mews
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	All I have is:
[16:06]	Armin Weatherwax gave you dun dun duuuuun. 	Armin Weatherwax gave you dun dun duuuuun.
[16:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	Drama?
[16:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehehe
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Oh no, our meeting has devolved into gesturbation
[16:06]	Armin Weatherwax: 	Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition!
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	XD
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Anyway, I thought we were talking about vendors.
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha, yeeaaah, gesture vendors right?
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Pointing!
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	And sitting
[16:07]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	right
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	those things
[16:07]	Pat69 Munro: 	lol
[16:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	No bathroom humor please.
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	aow :(
[16:07]	Armin Weatherwax tries to behave 	Armin Weatherwax tries to behave
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	~*nyu?*~
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted amends comment 	McCabe Maxsted amends comment
[16:07]	Charlette Proto: 	No2
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	Exterminate!
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	CHARGE!!!!
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova: 	McCabe --- your comment merits more exposure I think. That's such a good idea. And it could be expanded to abuse control too.
[16:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	*mauRuu*
[16:08]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Gahh, enough with the gestures. >_<
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	it would be great if even the opensim people did it :)
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	and yeah!
[16:08]	Jacek Antonelli shakes her fist at LL for making gestures 	Jacek Antonelli shakes her fist at LL for making gestures
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted thinks it'd be a nicy slap in the face at griefers 	McCabe Maxsted thinks it'd be a nicy slap in the face at griefers
[16:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah. Bookmarking it, might come up in opensim some time
[16:08]	Armin Weatherwax: 	if even the opensim people didwhat - missed it
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Indeed. Grief control by "You don't exist"
[16:09]	Charlette Proto: 	some mentors would vote to have gestures limited to residents over 6 monts inworld
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehehe
[16:09]	Pat69 Munro: 	lol
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm. to come bvacxk to gestrures 4 a second: it was great if it was possible to mute gestures (instead of people)
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted thinks it'd be interesting if the gesture manager showed your av in a little preview window, going back to an old thread	McCabe Maxsted thinks it'd be interesting if the gesture manager showed your av in a little preview window, going back to an old thread
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oooh, like a gestures volume slider?
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or preview animations. Or Preview clothes. Or Preview Avatar.
[16:10]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Is there some low-hanging fruit that could be added to Imprudence for such control?
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yes, but, i mean chat
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hrm
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	maybe the avie preview (ghost avie) is practical for many more things too
[16:11]	Armin Weatherwax: 	needs an extra gesture channel - though
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I don't htink there's a way to tell if a gesture is chat is there?
[16:11]	Pat69 Munro: 	A preview for previews? :)
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, I'm not sure it's possible to tell the difference between gesture chat and regular chat
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	a circle in a circle.... a wheel within a wheel....
[16:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Is the gesture sent by the client?
[16:11]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yes, but even LL could switch brain on for some seconds
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted could do sound though. I think I saw where that awas set 	McCabe Maxsted could do sound though. I think I saw where that awas set
[16:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Are you sure they are capable of that, Armin? *grin*
[16:12]	McCabe Maxsted: 	i.e. it's distinct unless that part of my brain's turned to goo again
[16:12]	Armin Weatherwax: 	dunno
[16:12]	Armin Weatherwax: 	just a hope
[16:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe
[16:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay, I think let's wrap it up for today, McCabe and I have some work to do.
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted: 	bah
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted: 	we do
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted: 	*mumbles about wanting to play more gestures*
[16:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Next week we'll have a different topic, I think? Or do we want to continue with more interactions?
[16:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Aww, we ended up not talking about object interactions at all.
[16:13]	Pat69 Munro: 	well gtg too, cool meeting guys, lets not invite Jumpy next week :)
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	gesture chat is the same atm butcould be used to determine spam if it was different
[16:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe take care Pat
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted: 	take care pat :)
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hope to see you again
[16:14]	Pat69 Munro: 	Beam me up please Mr Linden
[16:15]	Armin Weatherwax still hopes for genekos brilliant pie dreams to be discussed soon 	Armin Weatherwax still hopes for genekos brilliant pie dreams to be discussed soon
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay, take care everyone! See you next week! I'll try to talk to Lex and see if we can get a new spot for meetings