Bug triage/2009-01-14/Transcript

* [15:04] Bambers Linden: For those just arriving, our agenda is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
* [15:04] Squirrel Wood: I definitely cannot repro this on rc5
* [15:04] Dessie Linden: hey ella
* [15:04] Garn Conover: wow jira just slowed to a crawl
* [15:04] Bambers Linden: We're at https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11198
* [15:04] Entering god: mode, level 200
* [15:05] Squirrel Wood: Did he perchance press SHIFT-X to adjust the coordinates ?
* [15:06] Bambers Linden: There are 2 repros, so it seems unlikely to me
* [15:06] Zen Linden: odd if no one else can, however
* [15:07] Squirrel Wood: does he have space navigator ?
* [15:07] Garn Conover: i couldn't in the 1st place when it was first made but by Ramzi's links it seems there are others out there
* [15:07] Soap Clawtooth: Hey all. :) 
* [15:08] Garn Conover: Squirrel it seems to be client side only by the comments
* [15:08] Bambers Linden: yeah - space nav or possibly some other joystick issue
* [15:08] Squirrel Wood: just trying to cover all possibilities
* [15:08] Bambers Linden: was b;atantly looking at the wrong bug there...
* [15:09] Soap Clawtooth: Whats' up with spacenav?
* [15:09] Squirrel Wood: I need TreeNav :p
* [15:09] Bambers Linden: Anybody repro VWR-11198 at all?
* [15:09] Soap Clawtooth: Not NutNav? You guide you to the nuts? ^^
* [15:10] Bambers Linden: hi bridie
* [15:10] Garn Conover: look @ Ramzi comment on dec 29- its client side so possibly its a connection thing.. but also he checked it with 2 accounts on so that wouldn't make sense
* [15:10] Squirrel Wood: Mayhaps ask if it still happend with RC5 ?
* [15:10] Garn Conover: Bridie!
* [15:10] Squirrel Wood: from what I can gather this was with rc3
* [15:11] Garn Conover: RC4 by the last comment Squirrekl
* [15:11] Bambers Linden: Yes, I think more info first of all
* [15:11] Zen Linden: Maybe after one more try on his region, I say close as can't repro.
* [15:11] Bambers Linden: I cannot repro in the latest
* [15:12] Squirrel Wood: Does SL work on Windows 7 ? (blatant change of topic :p)
* [15:12] Bambers Linden: OK Zen - sounds good to me.
* [15:13] Soap Clawtooth: Sl does work on windows 7
* [15:13] Bambers Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11348
* [15:13] Bambers Linden: Non-linguistic symbols only appear to work on Windows Vista
* [15:13] Soap Clawtooth: Windows 7 is little more than a vista service pack with shiny new stuff - microsoft jumped on the apple bandwagon of marketing a service pack as a new OS by piling tonnes of new stuff on.
* [15:14] Bridie Linden: : ????????
* [15:14] Garn Conover: hehe
* [15:14] Soap Clawtooth: This one was mine, i think.
* [15:14] Squirrel Wood: Which symbols work depends on what OS you are on, what language your OS is and other things.
* [15:14] Gellan Glenelg: that's an easy fix - they need to install support for east-asian languages
* [15:14] Soap Clawtooth: or is a dupe
* [15:14] Bambers Linden: ????????
* [15:14] Soap Clawtooth: No. Doesn't work for macs
* [15:14] Soap Clawtooth: When i say doesn't display correctly
* [15:14] Soap Clawtooth: It DOES display the character, but way too small to be comprehensible
* [15:15] Bambers Linden: I do not have the relevant language packs installed but I think Vista comes with them
* [15:15] Soap Clawtooth: it comes out as a '
* [15:15] Bambers Linden: Any vista user's in Bridie's house?
* [15:15] Bambers Linden: s/user's/users
* [15:15] Soap Clawtooth: ? - Should be an airplane to vista users and a dot to anyone else.
* [15:16] Bridie Linden: i see dot
* [15:16] Gellan Glenelg: it's a plane to me, on XP
* [15:16] Bambers Linden: I see dots in SL and the airplane in the jira
* [15:16] Soap Clawtooth: Do you have a language pack installed, tough, Gellan?
* [15:16] Gellan Glenelg: yes
* [15:16] Soap Clawtooth: though*
* [15:16] Soap Clawtooth: That's why then.
* [15:17] Soap Clawtooth: But Mac's *do* have the language packs but don't see the characters correctly.
* [15:17] Squirrel Wood: 
* [15:17] Soap Clawtooth: Since its flawless on everything else NOT SL, has to be clientside SL bug.
* [15:17] Squirrel Wood: I see a horizontal white line
* [15:17] Ellla McMahon: I see a plane on Vista
* [15:18] Harleen Gretzky: I see a plane on XP
* [15:18] Soap Clawtooth: bets harleen has the language packs.
* [15:18] Bambers Linden: so Macs do not display the non-alphanumeric characters in SL, but do in other apps
* [15:19] Bambers Linden: Vista is fine
* [15:19] Soap Clawtooth: Yes bambers.
* [15:19] Harleen Gretzky: Don't know standard installation of XP Pro
* [15:19] Soap Clawtooth: If i type the characters into my web browser, or any app with character creation on the web (IE twitter) it works fine as usual.
* [15:19] Soap Clawtooth: character input*
* [15:19] Bambers Linden: Standard install of XP doesn't seem to show the airplane
* [15:19] Bambers Linden: and Linux has issues too
* [15:20] Bambers Linden: OK, we'll import and take a peek. Any objections?
* [15:20] Soap Clawtooth: I wanna know who upgraded it to major, though. -_-
* [15:20] Soap Clawtooth: No objections here.
* [15:21] Gellan Glenelg: bambers, fix for XP (not all versions install by default): Control Panel, Regional and LanguageOptions, Languages, "Install files for East Asian languages"
* [15:21] Squirrel Wood: the airplane is in a different font... which may be the reason ?
* [15:21] Soap Clawtooth: My theory, bambers. Is that the character on mac is just being displayed at a font size way too small to be intelligible, if you see what i mean?
* [15:21] Harleen Gretzky: I don't have that checked
* [15:21] Soap Clawtooth: (and possible for the XP users too)
* [15:21] Bambers Linden: Yes, I got that
* [15:21] Soap Clawtooth: nods.
* [15:22] Squirrel Wood: will not install any such support for east asian languages. useless waste of ressources when its not needed :p
* [15:22] Bambers Linden: But I do see those chars elsewhere. Only SL viewer doesn't show them in text fields
* [15:22] Soap Clawtooth: As for linux, the characters just display as spaces because it hasn't got the language file.
* [15:23] Bambers Linden: Hmm.
* [15:23] Soap Clawtooth: Dunno much about linux but that's the only reason you'd get a space.
* [15:23] Bambers Linden: Dp these count as objections, and should we instead have them update the language packs and see if it fixes the problem first?
* [15:24] Harleen Gretzky: has no East Asian support and sees the airplane
* [15:24] Soap Clawtooth: Could give it a go, I suppose. But I always thought character recognition came from the system.
* [15:24] Squirrel Wood: ?
* [15:24] Squirrel Wood: R backwards anyone ?
* [15:25] Soap Clawtooth: Cryllic characters are fine, quirrel ^^
* [15:25] Soap Clawtooth: Yes i got that
* [15:25] Bambers Linden: OK, we'll ask for more info and import if it repros despite the correct packs
* [15:25] Harleen Gretzky: That's what I see
* [15:25] Squirrel Wood: I see it as dot in SL
* [15:25] Bambers Linden: likewise
* [15:25] Soap Clawtooth: Could hamper russian users, in that case.
* [15:25] Gellan Glenelg: ??? ? ? ????
* [15:25] Squirrel Wood: and that's taken from the korean version of arial font
* [15:25] Bambers Linden: Should we move on?
* [15:25] Soap Clawtooth: I saw that fine.
* [15:26] Dessie Linden: Should we reprioritize it first?
* [15:26] Dessie Linden: down from major?
* [15:26] Squirrel Wood: ?uo?u? ?x?? u?op ?pisdn
* [15:26] Bambers Linden: (see - 5 issues and they're filling the time nicely. Parkinson's Law wins again!) :) 
* [15:26] Soap Clawtooth: I created it on normal priority
* [15:26] Soap Clawtooth: Baloo upgraded it to Major.
* [15:26] Bambers Linden: yes Dessie - I don't think it warrants Major TBH
* [15:26] Soap Clawtooth: agrees.
* [15:26] Harleen Gretzky: dn?
* [15:26] Dessie Linden: let's put it back to normal & move on then
* [15:27] Bambers Linden: ok - next up is:
* [15:27] Bambers Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11482
* [15:27] Bambers Linden: Blured Nametag visible in snapshots when in front of glow, even if show GUI in snapshots is disabled.
* [15:27] Squirrel Wood: ?p?lq?sip si s?o?sd?us ui in? ?o?s ?i u??? '?ol? ?o ?uo?? ui u??? s?o?sd?us ui ?lqisi? ??????u p??nlq
* [15:27] Soap Clawtooth: I don't get this problem on OS X.5. the tag 'glows' along with the prim, but doesn't blur in the fashion.
* [15:28] Zen Linden: so, obviously a simple workaround for this one, turn off nametags before the snap shot, but I say import and see if we can play with the rendering order a little for snapshots to get it right. But low priority
* [15:28] Gellan Glenelg: you see the tag on snapshots when UI is OFF?
* [15:28] Squirrel Wood: I suppose the tag is not to be shown at all there
* [15:29] Squirrel Wood: but the blur still is applied to it
* [15:29] Soap Clawtooth: I think he's more concerned about name recognistion in glowly areas rather than snapshots...
* [15:29] Squirrel Wood: I would assume that the render order needs to be changed to fix that
* [15:29] Soap Clawtooth: The only thing I can think of its its some property of the prim combined with his graphics abilities causing it.
* [15:30] Bambers Linden: I think we need to ask for a more specific bug report
* [15:30] Soap Clawtooth: Agreed.
* [15:30] Bambers Linden: If we can't decide on what someone's reporting, we need more info
* [15:31] Soap Clawtooth: Ask him to repro with just a basix prim with alpha and glow applied, no scripts.
* [15:31] Bambers Linden: Mark as more info and will move on.
* [15:31] Bambers Linden: Will do, Soap.
* [15:31] Bambers Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11437
* [15:31] Bambers Linden: Asked to choose installation language, in german, even though I live in denmark and use a danish operating system
* [15:32] Squirrel Wood: in this case the dialog text is german
* [15:32] Squirrel Wood: despite english being selected as default and the OS being danish
* [15:32] Squirrel Wood: which looks to me as if the installer pulls the wrong text from its repository
* [15:32] Zen Linden: thinks it's a secret german plot
* [15:33] Soap Clawtooth: lol.
* [15:33] Bambers Linden: I can't help but wonder if the scroll wheel might have been hit while the language menu was selected - I've def done that before
* [15:33] Gellan Glenelg: has someone confused "DE" with "Denmark"?
* [15:33] Soap Clawtooth: Old jerry is at it again, zen/
* [15:33] Bambers Linden: :) 
* [15:33] Zen Linden: :p
* [15:34] Squirrel Wood: the installer also shows english as the preferred (default) language.
* [15:34] Soap Clawtooth: Mebbe changed the way laguage selection works from a drop down dialogue box to flag icons you click?
* [15:34] Soap Clawtooth: shrugs.
* [15:34] Squirrel Wood: flag icons can cause grief. Like, with german
* [15:34] Soap Clawtooth: True
* [15:34] Squirrel Wood: german would require three flags at least as its spoken in germany, austria and switzerland
* [15:35] Bambers Linden: I'm suspecting Ramzi is onto something. The user mayhave accidentally scrolled to DE on an old install, and the new installer detected it?
* [15:35] Dessie Linden: The user says they've never installed w/German
* [15:35] Squirrel Wood: the user denies that
* [15:36] Squirrel Wood: never ask a user if they did something or to read you the error message that is displayed. it will not work.
* [15:36] Bambers Linden: fair enough. I have seen exactly this by making exactly that error in the past. But I'd never admit to it if asked.
* [15:36] Dessie Linden: it almost looks like a disconnect between the default display language and the default option - based upon a Danish OS
* [15:37] Soap Clawtooth: If most people speak english in Denmark anyway, why not have english as the default?
* [15:37] Dessie Linden: thus the disconnect, right? :o)
* [15:37] Bambers Linden: I think maybe so
* [15:37] Dessie Linden: and why the heck don't they speak Danish?
* [15:37] Soap Clawtooth: shrugs. Banjoed if I know.
* [15:37] Squirrel Wood: they likely do. but SL does not yet.
* [15:38] Dessie Linden: true
* [15:38] Bambers Linden: :) 
* [15:38] Dessie Linden: but it's on the way!
* [15:38] Bambers Linden: Should we import this?
* [15:38] Squirrel Wood: you need a danish linden to supply you with danish butter cookies!
* [15:38] Dessie Linden: only one vote, and how pervasive might it be?
* [15:38] Bambers Linden: Or ask the user to follow up on their suggestion first
* [15:39] Squirrel Wood: let's try that first and see what will happen ?
* [15:39] Soap Clawtooth: I say import.
* [15:39] Bambers Linden: yes - ask for more info - can they repro after renaming their SL folder
* [15:39] Dessie Linden: I'd be inclined to ask for more info
* [15:40] Bambers Linden: Soap - would you agree to more info then re-triage? Or do you have strong reasons for importing?
* [15:40] Soap Clawtooth: Not really strong reasons. I'd go with NMI too. Just thought it might show how friendly we all are ^^
* [15:40] Dessie Linden: remember... the resident suggested a possible test
* [15:41] Dessie Linden: friendly, but practical
* [15:41] Soap Clawtooth: Valid.
* [15:41] Dessie Linden: once in a while! ;o)
* [15:41] Soap Clawtooth: ;) 
* [15:41] Bambers Linden: NMI, please tell us your findings. :) 
* [15:41] Dessie Linden: sounds good to me
* [15:42] Bambers Linden: Next up is....
* [15:42] Bambers Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-11505
* [15:42] Bambers Linden: Crash when running SL in SLI mode
* [15:42] Squirrel Wood: Since many people using 3D entertainment have multiple video cards. <= definitely not true
* [15:42] Soap Clawtooth: agrees.
* [15:43] Soap Clawtooth: Think he's confusing dual video cards with Dual SLI.
* [15:44] Zen Linden: looking at one of his crash reports presently
* [15:44] Squirrel Wood: I would suggest updating all those pesky little drivers
* [15:44] Soap Clawtooth: Agreed. Update and Repro.
* [15:44] Squirrel Wood: that eat up 100s of megabytes on your harddisk
* [15:45] Zen Linden: yeah, not seeing anything much to go off of on the report. Unfortunately no stack trace, so may have been a freeze
* [15:45] Squirrel Wood: latest nvidia drivers were released on January 8th
* [15:45] Squirrel Wood: latest ati.. no clue
* [15:46] Soap Clawtooth: Latest ATI for mac came last week ^^
* [15:46] Bambers Linden: What RC was the report generated on?
* [15:46] Dessie Linden: isn't this issue already covered by the feature request VWR-7964?
* [15:46] Soap Clawtooth: Couldn't it be just due to the RC's super-sensitive watchdog?
* [15:46] Bambers Linden: Could it be crashing from debug settings in early RC versions?
* [15:46] Soap Clawtooth: Could always ask him to disable the RC's watchdog and see if he can repro.
* [15:46] Bambers Linden: Exactly Soap
* [15:46] Zen Linden: watchdog is off
* [15:47] Soap Clawtooth: ahh ok.
* [15:47] Bambers Linden: debug GL
* [15:47] Zen Linden: should be
* [15:48] Zen Linden: ask him to submit a few more crash reports
* [15:48] Zen Linden: nmi
* [15:48] Bambers Linden: ok, we can do that
* [15:48] Squirrel Wood: ??no??? ??,?? ?oo?
* [15:48] Soap Clawtooth: So is watchdog actually off on his RC? - I know its on on my mac's RC (lates) cause i sometimes crash for no reason at all.
* [15:48] Soap Clawtooth: Dunno how to turn it off on mac like you do on windows though.
* [15:49] Squirrel Wood: Its a debug setting
* [15:49] Squirrel Wood: watchdogEnabled
* [15:49] Bambers Linden: What version is he running Zen?
* [15:49] Squirrel Wood: can set it via advanced menu
* [15:49] Zen Linden: 1.22.5
* [15:49] Bambers Linden: (Or anyone)
* [15:49] Zen Linden: so it should have been turned off
* [15:49] Bambers Linden: ok - debug GL and watchdog were both off
* [15:50] Squirrel Wood: it shows as disabled on my rc5
* [15:50] Bambers Linden: yes, 5 and 6 has them off
* [15:50] Bambers Linden: I believe we switched them off in 3 or 4. Still leads to NMI I think
* [15:51] Soap Clawtooth: I think its something he's done to his graphics cards, you know.
* [15:51] Squirrel Wood: overclocking ?
* [15:51] Soap Clawtooth: I never heard of anyone even wanting to run multiple video cards.
* [15:51] Soap Clawtooth: I think so,
* [15:51] Soap Clawtooth: Recommend he bin graphics cards and ust buy an Nvidia with dual SLI .
* [15:51] Soap Clawtooth: just*
* [15:52] Zen Linden: From what I could tell, I think he just had a standard sli setup. It should work ok
* [15:52] Squirrel Wood: and there it is: the money issue
* [15:52] Squirrel Wood: new cards cost half a fortune
* [15:52] Squirrel Wood: he may not be able or not want to afford them
* [15:52] Soap Clawtooth: Commented to that effect.
* [15:53] Soap Clawtooth: you can get dual SLi cards fairly cheap these days (certainly cheaper than multiples of a single card)
* [15:53] Squirrel Wood: cheap usually means low to mid end, not suited for hardcore gaming :p
* [15:54] Soap Clawtooth: Dude. I run SL on ultra with no problems on a Radeon HD2400 XT - mid end is no problem for SL if you know what you're doing.
* [15:54] Soap Clawtooth: And 2400's are craphamsters.
* [15:54] Squirrel Wood: and there is another problem: Most people do NOT know what they are doing. most of the time. :p
* [15:55] Soap Clawtooth: Obviousy this fella don't otherwise he wouldn't be noobie-hacking performance out of his PC with multiple cards.
* [15:55] Bambers Linden: Well this part of the discussion is neither here nor there. But more info will help us figure that out I think
* [15:55] Zen Linden: anyway, nmi. A few more crash reports would help narrow some stuff down
* [15:55] Zen Linden: yup
* [15:56] Soap Clawtooth: yup. NMI.
* [15:56] Bambers Linden: ok, cool
* [15:56] Squirrel Wood: Where is that issue about there being not enough issues on the agenda?
* [15:56] Soap Clawtooth: lmao.
* [15:56] Bambers Linden: I think that's it for now. Nobody entered it into jira
* [15:56] Bambers Linden: but if we find it mark it as Cannot Repro
* [15:56] Bambers Linden: ;) 
* [15:57] Squirrel Wood: I remember those days where we set new records about processed issues on the agenda...
* [15:57] Soap Clawtooth: Mebbe we could get him to disable one of the cards and retry SLI on a single card?
* [15:57] Bridie Linden: quality not...
* [15:57] Zen Linden: just wait for 1.23
* [15:57] Bambers Linden: 3 minutes to go. I'll be honing my triagin' skills and ramping up I hope
* [15:58] Zen Linden: is NOT worried about a lack of issues
* [15:58] Bambers Linden: in preparation for 1.23...
* [15:58] Squirrel Wood: will there be a rc6 ?
* [15:58] Soap Clawtooth: Means more coffee breaks, right zen? ;) 
* [15:58] Zen Linden: heh
* [15:58] Soap Clawtooth: lol.
* [15:58] Dessie Linden: hey... I thought this WAS the coffee break!
* [15:58] Soap Clawtooth: lmao.
* [15:59] Squirrel Wood: ah. breaking coffee mugs on peoples heads for being ignorantly stupid...
* [15:59] Zen Linden: slowly puts his coffee cup down
* [15:59] Soap Clawtooth: haha.
* [15:59] Dessie Linden: lol
* [15:59] Bambers Linden: slowly puts his crash helmet on
* [15:59] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [15:59] Soap Clawtooth: I'd advise puttin it on quickly bambers, lol.
* [15:59] Zen Linden: alright guys, back to some more crash reporting work for me.
* [15:59] Bambers Linden: :O
* [15:59] Soap Clawtooth: SVC-1139: Crash helmet attaches too slowly.
* [15:59] Soap Clawtooth: lmao.
* [15:59] Bambers Linden: Thanks everyone!
* [16:00] Bambers Linden: lol
* [16:00] Squirrel Wood: attack of the coffee mugs ?
* [16:00] Soap Clawtooth: Thanks for havin us again, you guys ^^
* [16:00] Squirrel Wood: good triage ^^
* [16:00] Soap Clawtooth: yup
* [16:00] Dessie Linden: cya everyone! take care...
* [16:00] Squirrel Wood: have a grrrreat day!