AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2011-02-08

*[2011/02/08 09:30] Beyond Baroque: Hi guys
*[2011/02/08 09:30] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): hello :-)
*[2011/02/08 09:30] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): Ello
*[2011/02/08 09:30] Beyond Baroque: Srry if I trampled somebody. Too many processes running, lots of lag on my side
*[2011/02/08 09:31] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I hear that 70 ton dragons do that to a sim...
*[2011/02/08 09:31] Beyond Baroque: /me looks at Virtualvian with a raised eyebrow
*[2011/02/08 09:32] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): so welcome all to the week ly AWG meeting. Maccus should be here any second now
*[2011/02/08 09:32] Beyond Baroque: Are you calling me fat? :P
*[2011/02/08 09:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): /me hides under his invisble cloak
*[2011/02/08 09:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I would say more horizontally challenged Beyond
*[2011/02/08 09:33] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Welcom Maccus
*[2011/02/08 09:33] Beyond Baroque: Main challenge I have is making Viewer 2 swap avatars
*[2011/02/08 09:33] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): Ahh, Welcome Maccus.
*[2011/02/08 09:33] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Understand that one
*[2011/02/08 09:33] Beyond Baroque: For some reason it refuses a plain "Replace outfit" with lots of my non-humans
*[2011/02/08 09:34] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Feel like in a time warp machine at times switching viewers
*[2011/02/08 09:34] Maccus McCullough: Hi Joey
*[2011/02/08 09:34] Maccus McCullough: Hi Zid
*[2011/02/08 09:34] Beyond Baroque: This might work...
*[2011/02/08 09:35] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): So Maccus asked me for an invite to Groupies earlier today, and I asked him to speak out our weekly meeting
*[2011/02/08 09:36] Beyond Baroque: Blackmail works
*[2011/02/08 09:36] Maccus McCullough: so who knows were the bodies are buried?
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Can't prove it I didn't leave any trace evidence
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Never met Hoffa either
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Maccus McCullough: that's a new feature in SLV2
*[2011/02/08 09:37] JB Hancroft: Joey - getting into trouble again ? ;)
*[2011/02/08 09:37] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Zha tends to throw them up into the molecule and let the birds pck at them
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Beyond Baroque: I DIDN'T DO IT
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Me trouble?? No just drawn that way
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): damn firestorm viewer
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Kaline Hax: lol
*[2011/02/08 09:37] Melchizedek Blauvelt: I'm behind 7 proxies
*[2011/02/08 09:39] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): so, breaking awakward silence, anyone have any news they want to share?
*[2011/02/08 09:39] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): I'm being chased to the corners of the internet by LL still.
*[2011/02/08 09:39] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): Heh.
*[2011/02/08 09:39] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Today's Jules Verne RL rez day
*[2011/02/08 09:40] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): google is silly like that
*[2011/02/08 09:40] Kaline Hax: jules verne google logo slows my loading time
*[2011/02/08 09:43] JB Hancroft: silence... ?
*[2011/02/08 09:43] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Simon and Garfunkle song
*[2011/02/08 09:45] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): so Maccus, seems to be a slow day today, so feel free to start talking. We usually use text for these meetings and put a transcript on the SL wiki
*[2011/02/08 09:45] Kaline Hax: what is everyones favorite viewer?
*[2011/02/08 09:45] JB Hancroft: Sg 1.4
*[2011/02/08 09:45] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): telnet
*[2011/02/08 09:45] JB Hancroft: ++Zido
*[2011/02/08 09:45] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): the one I haven't written yet
*[2011/02/08 09:46] Maccus McCullough: not V2
*[2011/02/08 09:46] Maccus McCullough: Hi Everyone, Thank you for letting participate today
*[2011/02/08 09:46] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Emergence still, works flawless for me
*[2011/02/08 09:46] Kaline Hax: im writing training material for a client... i am trying to decide what viewer to write it in
*[2011/02/08 09:46] JB Hancroft: hey Maccus :)
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Xon Emoto: Hello
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Melchizedek Blauvelt: Hi Macc, welcome
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Phoenix
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Kaline Hax: leaning towards pheonix.. its all for new users
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Maccus McCullough: Saijanai and JB brought me in this morning and I would like to talk to you about what the US Military is doing in SL/Virtual Environments as well as ask for your assistance
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Mojito Sorbet: New users don't get Phoenix. Will they have special instructions in advance?
*[2011/02/08 09:47] Kaline Hax: i love the miltary islands
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): military islands?
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Kaline Hax: yes special instructions
*[2011/02/08 09:48] lufpleh Obstreperous: phoenix will be gone in few months, only long term choice available at moment is V2
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Kaline Hax: coalition islands
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Army seems to be leading the way these days to innvoation
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Maccus McCullough: I started a group called the MiLands - Military Lands in Second Life
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Maccus McCullough: its central island is Coalition Island
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Maccus McCullough: Thank you Kaline, you are all welcome to visit
*[2011/02/08 09:48] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): I'll have to check that out.
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Kaline Hax: its a pretty cool place zidon
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Maccus McCullough: Hi Rex
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Melchizedek Blauvelt: heya Rex
*[2011/02/08 09:49] JB Hancroft: hey Rex :)
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Maccus McCullough: MiLands is 2 years old now
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Maccus McCullough: we meet monthly
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Rex Cronon: hi melchizedek, jb
*[2011/02/08 09:49] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): Of course all I got on me is my 3 months of being in the US Navy before I medical discharge (personal stuff x.x)
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Maccus McCullough: All of the Islands there (with the exception of Coalition Island) are owned by the US Military
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Kaline Hax: there is a support group on the military islands
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Hi Archivist
*[2011/02/08 09:50] JB Hancroft: hi Archivist - great to see you again :)
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Maccus McCullough: the MiLands is a guidance organization for other Military activities wishing to enter virtual worlds and SL
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Maccus McCullough: Hi Archivist
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Archivist Llewellyn: hi
*[2011/02/08 09:50] Zidonuke (zidonuke.ghost): Very interesting.
*[2011/02/08 09:51] Kaline Hax: i used military islands as a case study for a govt agency client on ours
*[2011/02/08 09:51] Kaline Hax: of ours*
*[2011/02/08 09:51] Archivist Llewellyn: I will grab a seat as soon as I am done rezzing.
*[2011/02/08 09:51] Maccus McCullough: If you guys have any questions or comments you may email me directly: douglas.b.maxwell@us.army.mil
*[2011/02/08 09:51] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): the outer circle of benches is the chat range
*[2011/02/08 09:51] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I will be a gentleman. Take mine Archivist
*[2011/02/08 09:52] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): BTW< Maccus, that url on your profile doesn't seem to work currently
*[2011/02/08 09:52] Kaline Hax: is this your email maccus?
*[2011/02/08 09:52] Maccus McCullough: yes
*[2011/02/08 09:52] Kaline Hax: would love to talk to you some time
*[2011/02/08 09:52] Maccus McCullough: we just reorganized my command, so I'll change teh URL
*[2011/02/08 09:52] Maccus McCullough: thank you for letting me know
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Maccus McCullough: email or IM anytime Kaline
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Maccus McCullough: the military sees SL as an interesting simulation framework
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Maccus McCullough: it has real time computational steering
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Xon Emoto: Me too, we have been exploring MiLands for people from German Bunbdeswehr.
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Mojito Sorbet: "steering"?
*[2011/02/08 09:53] Xon Emoto: *Bundeswehr*
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Maccus McCullough: for example, using LSL you can affect the simulation in real time
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Always wondered if this was a progression from Project Darkstar
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Maccus McCullough: We looked closely at Darkstar
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Maccus McCullough: it never matured
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Maccus McCullough: Red Dwarf is the latest project name for it
*[2011/02/08 09:54] Beyond Baroque: Have you evaluated OpenSim?
*[2011/02/08 09:55] Maccus McCullough: That's a great question. One of hte reasons I'm here to day is to talk about OpenSim
*[2011/02/08 09:55] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Great
*[2011/02/08 09:55] Maccus McCullough: We have been involved with OpenSim since 2007
*[2011/02/08 09:55] JB Hancroft: :)
*[2011/02/08 09:55] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Maccus has worked at both Navy and Army now
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Maccus McCullough: Since Linden Lab has dropped the SLE program, we need to step up our OpenSim efforts
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Maccus McCullough: Pardon me, I should have introduced myself
*[2011/02/08 09:56] AWM Mars: Hi Maccus
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Maccus McCullough: My RL name is Douglas Maxwell
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Maccus McCullough: Hi mr. Mars
*[2011/02/08 09:56] AWM Mars: ltns
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Maccus McCullough: I work for the Army Research Lab in Orlando Fl
*[2011/02/08 09:56] Rex Cronon: hi
*[2011/02/08 09:56] AWM Mars: Greetings everyone, pardon my sudden appearance lol.
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Maccus McCullough: previously I worked for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center in Newport, RI
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Rex Cronon: hi
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Maccus McCullough: we have done things like ingest real world terrain and create large "real world" areas in SL
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Maccus McCullough: and OpenSim
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Much of the VIrtual NUWC build in SL was I think thanks to Doug's hard work
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Maccus McCullough: :)
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Rex Cronon: so the army is interested in interoperability among grids:)
*[2011/02/08 09:57] Maccus McCullough: We have also integrated a live running combat system into Teleplace so you could remotely prosecute a target
*[2011/02/08 09:58] Maccus McCullough: all of the military is interested in interoperability
*[2011/02/08 09:58] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Are you also looking yet at using assets servers from one VW inside of another VW?
*[2011/02/08 09:58] Maccus McCullough: Interoperability is a huge headache for us
*[2011/02/08 09:58] Maccus McCullough: we have millions of dollars tied up in content
*[2011/02/08 09:58] Rex Cronon: u mean that u can control a real weaponized bot from sl?
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Mojito Sorbet: Interoperability just between Army-owned grids, right?
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Beyond Baroque: Millions? really?
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Maccus McCullough: I'd love to make something once and move it between environments efficiently
*[2011/02/08 09:59] AWM Mars: its a bit of a holy grail atm. well, until the MPEG formats get released later this year, that will pave the way
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Maccus McCullough: Labor for good content is expensive
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Immersive Education group is working on that Doug
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Maccus McCullough: the IEEE Metaverse Standards group is working it too but we are still embryonic
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Kaline Hax: how many islands? i havent counted but there seem to be about 20 or 30 + on your continent
*[2011/02/08 09:59] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): trying to get the attention of the immersive Education guy.
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Had assets from Wonderland live play in RealXtend
*[2011/02/08 09:59] Mojito Sorbet: If all the grids where you do this are controlled by the Military, you could set up a shared asset service more easily. You do not have to worry about random outsiders stealing stuff
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Maccus McCullough: that means X3D worked with open sim, interesting
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Rex Cronon: there r already programs that allow u take anything form this grid and move it to another grid
*[2011/02/08 10:00] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): are you familiar with the iED open file format, Maccus?
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Maccus McCullough: no, do you have a link?
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Yes let me find
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): http://www.youtube.com/ImmersiveED#p/u/0/cMhBiu0YJ3s
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Maccus McCullough: we have many initiatives that use open sim, all behind firewalls
*[2011/02/08 10:00] Maccus McCullough: I'd like to create a public open sim grid
*[2011/02/08 10:01] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Aaron Walsh is the guy that is leading the iED group that I am on
*[2011/02/08 10:01] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): http://mediagrid.org/news/2010-11_iED_Create_Once_Experience_Everywhere.html
*[2011/02/08 10:01] AWM Mars: With the introduction of solutions like Metoforik server solutions, deploying content, security will come along with, and interoperability will evolve much quicker
*[2011/02/08 10:01] AWM Mars: metaforik*
*[2011/02/08 10:01] Maccus McCullough: I am prepared to stand up an an open sim server farm and open it up for the public to log in
*[2011/02/08 10:01] Maccus McCullough: I'd prefer to do this with OSGrid
*[2011/02/08 10:01] Maccus McCullough: (attached to OSGrid)
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: the initial resources would support 100 sims
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Have you looked at the maturity of RealXtend?
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): It is setup for education use
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Rex Cronon: doesn't the army alreayd have a license from ll to run their own server(s)?
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: I've seen RealXtend and ReactionGrid
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: I have a SLE here
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: yes
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: its license expires this summer
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Maccus McCullough: I have chosen not to renew it
*[2011/02/08 10:02] Mojito Sorbet: No future support, I bet
*[2011/02/08 10:02] AWM Mars: SLE is nothing more than OpenSim in a box anyway lol.
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): What happens when SLE expires?
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Maccus McCullough: there is no support, that is correct
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Oh
*[2011/02/08 10:03] NullSubset Burner: by military- Do you mean Darpa?
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Maccus McCullough: no
*[2011/02/08 10:03] NullSubset Burner: ah kk
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Maccus McCullough: The SLE is currently unsupported, so it is obsolete
*[2011/02/08 10:03] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Like a car that can't get oil changes
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Rex Cronon: the good thing is that the OS servers r free
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Mojito Sorbet: LL dropped support partway thru a license contract term??
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Maccus McCullough: It was a great resource to have last year as Open Sim wasn't stable
*[2011/02/08 10:04] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): hey Tapple
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Maccus McCullough: Things have changed and OS has matured
*[2011/02/08 10:04] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Tapple is a programmer with the Open Cobalt project, Maccus
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Maccus McCullough: Hi Tapple
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Nice
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Maccus McCullough: The biggest advantage SLE had was stability
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Maccus McCullough: it ran for months without trouble
*[2011/02/08 10:04] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Can't wait for Sirikata to get a bit more mature
*[2011/02/08 10:05] AWM Mars: surely, working with non-mesh platforms, is like rebuilding a model T ford, for a race.. mesh based platforms are better for multi-user and security
*[2011/02/08 10:05] Maccus McCullough: OpenSim needs frequent care and feeding
*[2011/02/08 10:05] Maccus McCullough: so even though its free, the operating costs are significant
*[2011/02/08 10:05] Maccus McCullough: I'm prepared to handle that
*[2011/02/08 10:05] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): And Unity 3D just got their certificate of Networthiness for the Army
*[2011/02/08 10:06] AWM Mars: agreed
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Beyond Baroque: You know, I remember seeing some document online, a procurement order in the millions for SLE licenses
*[2011/02/08 10:06] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): I'm part of a little startup that is making dedicated hardware to run squieak smalltalk. Eventually we hope to have ultra-cheap clouds running cobalt and such
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Maccus McCullough: I've been working with Chris Collins and
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Maccus McCullough: hahaha
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Maccus McCullough: millions of licenses? no
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Rex Cronon: if servers from both ll and OS end costing more or less similar, so why swich to OS?
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Beyond Baroque: I wonder if anyone stopped to ponder what that kind of money could have done for OpenSim development
*[2011/02/08 10:06] Maccus McCullough: for one thing LL won't sell me SLE anymore
*[2011/02/08 10:07] Mojito Sorbet: Because LL cancelled the SLE project
*[2011/02/08 10:07] AWM Mars: SL etc dont support popular formats like Collada, OBJ, 3DS etc, and therefore Maya, 3DMax etc are almost unuseable.. as most 3d content is produced in mesh format, you have a small market
*[2011/02/08 10:07] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I wonder if Rod Humble might consider bringign SLE back online
*[2011/02/08 10:07] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): that is changing, of course, but we have not ETA for that
*[2011/02/08 10:07] Maccus McCullough: Great question Beyond. I want to engage the developers and get that support
*[2011/02/08 10:07] Mojito Sorbet: Some of the pro tools have SL sculptie export formats, but very restricted in capabilities
*[2011/02/08 10:07] Maccus McCullough: LL is pretty staunch on the death of enterprise support.
*[2011/02/08 10:08] Maccus McCullough: They won't even let me buy straight engineering support
*[2011/02/08 10:08] Beyond Baroque: Millions FOR licenses, not of licenses: https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=f5cf358eedeb7fecc07763e7e34f46dc&tab=core&_cview=1
*[2011/02/08 10:08] Mojito Sorbet: I think they pretty commited to a social-network business plan
*[2011/02/08 10:08] Beyond Baroque: "NAICS is 511210 Size standard is $25.0 million."
*[2011/02/08 10:09] Pippin Gao (tapple.gao): I get the feeling there is more generally available content in SL format than others, at least for avatars
*[2011/02/08 10:09] AWM Mars: To be honest, if you are spending serious money and fixed on a sl type platform, go wioth OpenSim, it has the greatest longevity.. and its customer ocused
*[2011/02/08 10:09] Maccus McCullough: I helped write that document. That doesn't mean they spent 25m
*[2011/02/08 10:09] Rex Cronon: usually when army supports something financially there is a lot of paperwork, red tape, and NDA. will that make OS servers actually close source?
*[2011/02/08 10:09] Mojito Sorbet: And lots of peopl eknow how to create content for it
*[2011/02/08 10:09] Maccus McCullough: I can explain it if you want
*[2011/02/08 10:10] Maccus McCullough: the 70 licenses are extension to the "seats" granted by LL to use the machine
*[2011/02/08 10:10] Maccus McCullough: it was to get a couple more years use out of the 1st SLE we bought
*[2011/02/08 10:10] Maccus McCullough: $25M was not spent
*[2011/02/08 10:11] Beyond Baroque: I'm glad to hear that :)
*[2011/02/08 10:11] Maccus McCullough: that paragraph is a boiler plate declaration to tell the acquisition people where the contract would fall
*[2011/02/08 10:11] AWM Mars: if you had spent 25m on SL, then you would need a straight jacket, and protection from the taxpayer lol.
*[2011/02/08 10:11] Maccus McCullough: quite literally, it is in the $25m catagory
*[2011/02/08 10:11] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I tried to work with an SL company for an SBIR last September, but found it hard for some of these companies to work in R&D projects
*[2011/02/08 10:11] Beyond Baroque: Based on what I can see on irc, OpenSim core is down to just a handful of active developers, only one or two working on it anywhere near full time
*[2011/02/08 10:12] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): We need more of a procurement pipeline for this -- similar to the Apps 4 Army
*[2011/02/08 10:12] Beyond Baroque: They could use some support and encouragement
*[2011/02/08 10:12] Maccus McCullough: anyway, I read the Neva article and saw the responses. Was kinda funny
*[2011/02/08 10:12] Kaline Hax: im setting up open sim islands
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Maccus McCullough: What I'd like to do is get multiple military and contractor sites to contribute to the "new" MiLands
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Maccus McCullough: Kaline, you might be able to bring the Canadians on board
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): It seems like OpenSims are many and very fragmented. Steep learning curve on setting up and making useful. SOunds lik we need a better turnkey approach for all
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Archivist Llewellyn: You said developing good content is expensive. How much money per hour does the Army pay for content development for contractors?
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Kaline Hax: working on bringing them on board
*[2011/02/08 10:13] Maccus McCullough: I'm encouraged by the new Simian work
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Maccus McCullough: SLE has a nice web based administration capability
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Maccus McCullough: OS needs something like that
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Maccus McCullough: people like me in the R&D community don't mind command line interfaces, but not so much elsewhere
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): And a way that it makes that available to multiple OpenSims, instead of just one
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Beyond Baroque: Have you seen DIva Canto's WiFi?
*[2011/02/08 10:14] AWM Mars: its a simple php driven text menu system.. very simple to create
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Maccus McCullough: no, what's that
*[2011/02/08 10:14] Kaline Hax: it would be easier if fox didnt have people who say canadians are their retarded cousins they wish would go away
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Maccus McCullough: I saw what Reaction Grid did and was impressed
*[2011/02/08 10:15] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): hey Morgaine
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Maccus McCullough: they also have a Unity viewer
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Morgaine Dinova: Hi peeps :-)
*[2011/02/08 10:15] JB Hancroft: Kaline, true.
*[2011/02/08 10:15] JB Hancroft: Hey Morgaine :))
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Rex Cronon: hi morgaine
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Beyond Baroque: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Wifi
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Yes Edinburgh University recommended Diva's stuff
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Maccus McCullough: I'm a fan
*[2011/02/08 10:15] AWM Mars: brb,
*[2011/02/08 10:15] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Along with their OAR Opensim Archives
*[2011/02/08 10:16] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I am gathering notes on Opensim setup to try and make this process easier for others in the future: http://web.mac.com/dfliesen/SunTzu/Blog/Entries/2011/1/6_Setting_up_OpenSim.html
*[2011/02/08 10:17] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Using a 4-server cluster
*[2011/02/08 10:17] Maccus McCullough: here's where I'm at: I can either stand up a Military Continent in open sim and just have it hanging out there or I can link up with existing communities. I'd like your opionions
*[2011/02/08 10:17] Beyond Baroque: Depends on what you want to use it for, no? Outreach, recruitment, training...
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Rex Cronon: link? how?
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Melchizedek Blauvelt: I guess a lot depends on to what degreee you'll use your islands for outreach towards citizens
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Maccus McCullough: we have seen value in having a public presence
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Rex Cronon: afk for a few minutes
*[2011/02/08 10:18] Maccus McCullough: I'm less concerned with outreach and recruitment
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Kaline Hax: The military islands have a support group for mility members, friends and family
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Maccus McCullough: however, my coworkers are
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Kaline Hax: they have activities 3 times a day even.. quite a strong community
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Maccus McCullough: yes the OneSource community is very lively
*[2011/02/08 10:19] AWM Mars: back,
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Archivist Llewellyn: It will also depend on copyright and IP if you plan to have people contributing content.
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Maccus McCullough: All content will be GPL
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Morgaine Dinova: Horses for courses. Why just have one world? Create multiple different worlds, some purely internal, some gatewayed minimally to public worlds, and some fully integrated.
*[2011/02/08 10:19] Alisha Matova: i may be missreading your move to OS. is this program related? http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20110203_6055.php?oref=topstory
*[2011/02/08 10:20] AWM Mars: If.. open sim had Instancing.. that would bring it to the next level
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Maccus McCullough: that is the OneSource
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Maccus McCullough: they will likely stay in SL for a while
*[2011/02/08 10:20] JB Hancroft: (so much for realiable networks... :(
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Alisha Matova: =) thanks, i jsut read about it the other day. glad it is sticking around
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Melchizedek Blauvelt: If I'm not mistaking you can have it both ways, as in close your grid when you want and open it up for events etc
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Kaline Hax: would be nice if you could teleport between virtual worlds witih one viewer
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Beyond Baroque: AWM, what do you mean by Instancing?
*[2011/02/08 10:20] Morgaine Dinova: AWM - define instancing. For the most part, each sim in this model *is* an instance.
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Maccus McCullough: I agree Kaline
*[2011/02/08 10:21] AWM Mars: Multiple copies of the same sim
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Free Radar HUD: /me v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Kaline Hax: phoenic seems closes to that
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Archivist Llewellyn: So people will go there and build, and not be contractors, and contribute content under GPL?
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Kaline Hax: pheonix
*[2011/02/08 10:21] AWM Mars: but only requires one on the HD
*[2011/02/08 10:21] NullSubset Burner: There are a couple of long stanjding Human effectiveness initatives from Darpa(one using opensim) might be worth a look- perhaps?
*[2011/02/08 10:21] Alisha Matova: darpa has an OS? wow
*[2011/02/08 10:22] AWM Mars: we have infinite instances of our worlds :).. uses a few mb's for 1,000's of worlds and we can support over 5,000 users per instance
*[2011/02/08 10:22] Maccus McCullough: Archivist: If they want to participate, yes. People can still get paid for their work, but if the gov't pays for it, it will be GPL'd
*[2011/02/08 10:22] Maccus McCullough: I want to avoid having to pay for the same content over and over
*[2011/02/08 10:23] Maccus McCullough: that is not a sustainable model
*[2011/02/08 10:23] AWM Mars: thats what Instancing does for you Maccus..
*[2011/02/08 10:23] AWM Mars: same as page geometry for landscaping
*[2011/02/08 10:23] Beyond Baroque: AWM, which software are your worlds based on?
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Maccus McCullough: I agree AWM - we follow that model in Teleplace
*[2011/02/08 10:24] AWM Mars: we use many, some are alpa, based upon the new MPEG formats Mpeg V and U, some OpenGL Ogre
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Kaline Hax: if you didnt know about second life.. and virtual worlds.. this conversation would look like lines from a star trek movie
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Archivist Llewellyn: I would recommend against the "volunteer model" where people are expected to contribute content and services for free indefinitely.
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Maccus McCullough: that is not a reliable model
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Maccus McCullough: I agree
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Maccus McCullough: In the past, we have used Aimee Weber
*[2011/02/08 10:24] Maccus McCullough: she was wonderful to work with
*[2011/02/08 10:25] Beyond Baroque: Sorry AWM, I don't understand how you can have those numbers with a 3D world.
*[2011/02/08 10:25] Morgaine Dinova: That's one reason why SL is not a viable platform for Edu, it doesn't support open licenced content. Linden business depends to a degree on skimming commission from content creation, which is why they are so unhelpful on open content.
*[2011/02/08 10:25] Maccus McCullough: She did development in our SLE too
*[2011/02/08 10:25] AWM Mars: Unity can do/support Instancing.. as well as Page Geometry
*[2011/02/08 10:25] Beyond Baroque: Ah, so you are using Unity?
*[2011/02/08 10:25] Maccus McCullough: I have a unity viewer from Tipodean for our Open Sim
*[2011/02/08 10:26] AWM Mars: easy.. but its not viable without mesh based page geometry, based upon hardware profiles
*[2011/02/08 10:26] Maccus McCullough: its interesting, but not ready for prime time just yet
*[2011/02/08 10:26] Maccus McCullough: agreed
*[2011/02/08 10:26] Morgaine Dinova: What's page geometry?
*[2011/02/08 10:26] AWM Mars: no, we are not using unity.. I said alpha based platforms based upon the new MPEG formats, due to be Beta releases later this year
*[2011/02/08 10:27] JB Hancroft: AWM - perhaps you could talk about that in more detail, at a later time?
*[2011/02/08 10:27] AWM Mars: atm MPEG only streams in one direction, soon it will stream both ways, and use collaboration techniques built in.. along with mpeg codecs etc
*[2011/02/08 10:27] Maccus McCullough: The attraction OpenSim provides is we now fully control the environment
*[2011/02/08 10:27] Beyond Baroque: AWM, formats are relevant for the client side. I am asking how you can have thousands of users on the server with just a few mbs.
*[2011/02/08 10:28] AWM Mars: the suffix V and U means V=Virtual U=Unity (collaboration)
*[2011/02/08 10:28] Maccus McCullough: Licensing has been a real headache
*[2011/02/08 10:28] Maccus McCullough: I've been trying to contact the OS Grid admins/project leads
*[2011/02/08 10:28] AWM Mars: Our collaboaration server can handle over 5,000 users at a time, and they can be all in the same instance of any world/scene
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Maccus McCullough: do you think we would be welcomed?
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Beyond Baroque: Maccus, are you on IRC?
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Maccus McCullough: not at the moment
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Beyond Baroque: Nebadon (main OSGrid guy) is there almost constantly
*[2011/02/08 10:29] AWM Mars: Beyond.. you will need to read up on the MPEG consortium's work over the past 2 years
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Beyond Baroque: Very easy to catch there
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Maccus McCullough: will do, thank you
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Beyond Baroque: AWM, cut it out
*[2011/02/08 10:29] Free Radar HUD: /me v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
*[2011/02/08 10:30] AWM Mars: MPEG will open up the amount of connections/users that can collaborate, along with cloud computing,
*[2011/02/08 10:30] JB Hancroft: wb Joey
*[2011/02/08 10:30] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Sorry My ISP dropped the line
*[2011/02/08 10:30] AWM Mars: cut what out? You asked a question, I tried to answer it.
*[2011/02/08 10:30] Rex Cronon: why would u want mpg to stream both ways? to watch somebody watch a movie?
*[2011/02/08 10:30] Beyond Baroque: AWM, having a persistent 3D world on the server is disjoint from formaty issues.
*[2011/02/08 10:31] Morgaine Dinova: Why are we talking about MPEG?
*[2011/02/08 10:31] Beyond Baroque: You are just evading questions
*[2011/02/08 10:31] AWM Mars: bah.. read the MPEG's work.. then you will understand..
*[2011/02/08 10:31] JB Hancroft: Maccus - would there be any issues with having the millitary do work in OpenSim, w.r.t. being able to contribute to open source software?
*[2011/02/08 10:31] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: wanna explain something, or just keep repeating yourself?
*[2011/02/08 10:32] Maccus McCullough: We would like to
*[2011/02/08 10:32] Rex Cronon: if i have to read it to understand it that means is complicated, or u don't wan't, or can't explain it in a few sentences:)
*[2011/02/08 10:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): thanks JB
*[2011/02/08 10:32] Maccus McCullough: We have significant resources that could be brought in to help
*[2011/02/08 10:32] AWM Mars: hard to do so, when you have no idea what I'm talking about, and think MPEG is for watching movies only..
*[2011/02/08 10:32] Maccus McCullough: we don't want to be seen as "taking over"
*[2011/02/08 10:32] JB Hancroft: well, substantial resources would seem like a welcome thing, when they are scarce...
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Maccus McCullough: We have toyed with the idea of taking a branch of the OS code and making a secured "militarized" version
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Maccus McCullough: but that is not a good long term plan
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Maccus McCullough: I dont want a HiPiHi
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Want to stay with innovation, best way is to keep linkage with commercial side in my humble opinion
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Maccus McCullough: that's right
*[2011/02/08 10:33] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG -- that's the "MPEG" we're talking about. You must be referring to something different
*[2011/02/08 10:34] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): MPEG-4 and higher numbers talk about 2-way communication. Don't know if anyone has actually implemented that
*[2011/02/08 10:34] Maccus McCullough: I'd rather create an open platform and allow my contemporaries to enclave it at will, pumping secure information into it safely
*[2011/02/08 10:34] Rex Cronon: unless i am wrong it seem that AWM is trying to push to Maccus his/hers grid or VW. am i wrong AWM?
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): That way you let industry help drive innovation
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Morgaine Dinova: No way of knowing, since AWM refuses to give any actual info
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Maccus McCullough: I am toying with the idea of bounties
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Rex Cronon: bouties? for what?
*[2011/02/08 10:35] JB Hancroft: Maccus - any timeline for this.. in general terms?
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Maccus McCullough: it is ongoing, so now
*[2011/02/08 10:35] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): hmm... Joey the Bounty Hunter...like the sound of that
*[2011/02/08 10:36] Maccus McCullough: bounties for bug fixes or innovative additions to OS
*[2011/02/08 10:36] JB Hancroft: heh
*[2011/02/08 10:36] AWM Mars: Doh... I already said MPEG V and U formats are being developed and will probably be released later this year
*[2011/02/08 10:36] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): make it more of an ongoing competition for innovation
*[2011/02/08 10:36] Maccus McCullough: that is right
*[2011/02/08 10:36] Rex Cronon: will those bouties be above 10k USD?
*[2011/02/08 10:36] Maccus McCullough: inport/export of mesh for example
*[2011/02/08 10:36] NullSubset Burner: lol
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Maccus McCullough: of course
*[2011/02/08 10:37] JB Hancroft: well, the Challenge model seems to work...
*[2011/02/08 10:37] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Maccus, that already exists in realXtend and Wonderland
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Maccus McCullough: The challenge is intersting
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Rex Cronon: import/export to/from what formats?
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Maccus McCullough: collada would be a good start
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Beyond Baroque: Collada is the obvious choice, and iED has it working
*[2011/02/08 10:37] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): That is what iED using
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Beyond Baroque: A tip: http://members.immersiveeducation.org/user/register
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Maccus McCullough: I'd want to do somethign with a faster reaction time than the challenge. The challenge is meant for "big picture" solutions to problems
*[2011/02/08 10:38] AWM Mars: have a look here http://mpeg.chiariglione.org/working_documents.htm
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Morgaine Dinova: And realXtend has implemented iED's Collada format, as was showin in the iED intro video
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Xon Emoto: Collada's also wideley distributed on the Google warehouse, isn't it?
*[2011/02/08 10:38] AWM Mars: MPEG-V (Information Exchange with Virtual Worlds)
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Melchizedek Blauvelt: yes Xon
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Xon Emoto: and it goes right into Cobalt, if I remember right
*[2011/02/08 10:38] Maccus McCullough: I demonstrated the import of a collada model directly into Teleplace at last year's Gametech
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Rex Cronon: what do u want to export/import from collada? collada is just a file format. is not a program
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Maccus McCullough: dropped a Hummer into a conference room
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Another aspect to consider is cloud video streaming servers for OpenSim
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Xon Emoto: LOL
*[2011/02/08 10:39] JB Hancroft: /me saw it... nice :)
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Maccus McCullough: one use case for the military is collaborative engineering
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Archivist Llewellyn: Do the challenge winners give up their copyright?
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Maccus McCullough: no
*[2011/02/08 10:39] Archivist Llewellyn: ok
*[2011/02/08 10:40] JB Hancroft: We didn't last year for the FVWC, so I expect not
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Maccus McCullough: We try to respect people's IP
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Archivist Llewellyn: ok
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Maccus McCullough: so it would be interesting to import a model of a weapon
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Maccus McCullough: let engineers from all over the states look at it and make mods
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Maccus McCullough: copies
*[2011/02/08 10:40] Maccus McCullough: etc...
*[2011/02/08 10:41] Maccus McCullough: then save out that work back to say autocad
*[2011/02/08 10:41] Maccus McCullough: using collada as the interchange
*[2011/02/08 10:41] AWM Mars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_Picture_Experts_Group
*[2011/02/08 10:41] Morgaine Dinova: Archivist: you retain copyright, but don't forget it's open-licensed for free distribution.
*[2011/02/08 10:41] Rex Cronon: maccus. u didn't say what u want to convert to and from collada. will that be the prims, the sculpties, the meshes, or all three?
*[2011/02/08 10:42] Kaline Hax: sorry folks i need to run to a client meeting
*[2011/02/08 10:42] Kaline Hax: have enjoyed the conversation
*[2011/02/08 10:42] Maccus McCullough: unfortunately LL picked the most interchange unfriendly geometric representation scheme possible
*[2011/02/08 10:42] Beyond Baroque: AWM, MPEG-V is an attempt to standardize interop formats, and as you've been told repeatedly, that has nothing to do with the ability of a server to maintain a persistent 3D world with thousands of users on meagre hardware resources
*[2011/02/08 10:42] Maccus McCullough: SL is simply a viewer in my mind
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Maccus McCullough: the content should be transportable
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Maccus McCullough: wonderland, telelplace, whatever
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Maccus McCullough: I should be able to whip out my work and show it
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Maccus McCullough: note I said "my" work
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Maccus McCullough: Archivist is about to hyperventalate
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Morgaine Dinova: The SL viewer is a viewer (obviously), but SL isn't a viewer, it's a world. One of many.
*[2011/02/08 10:43] Rex Cronon: not everybody makes gpl things in here
*[2011/02/08 10:44] JB Hancroft: heh
*[2011/02/08 10:44] AWM Mars: geez.. and I already said, we have a collaboration server that connects 5,000 users, into a single instance.. never mentioned MPEG being the software/format of the server software.. only the streaming format for interoperability/collaboration data formats
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Make once use in multiple places
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Maccus McCullough: I understand, Rex - but the rules for participation need to be established
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): And as DoD makes the use of virtual worlds better for their use, it will also be better for commercial use
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Beyond Baroque: AWM, you brought up MPEG when asked how you achieved those numbers. Not somebody else.
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Morgaine Dinova: SL is a closed, walled garden, that's why. But there is no future in that.
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Maccus McCullough: I agree
*[2011/02/08 10:44] AWM Mars: the V and U formats are the data streaming.. not the programmes that will utilise that format.
*[2011/02/08 10:44] Archivist Llewellyn: Morgaine...I meant the challenge, is that what you meant re: open license?
*[2011/02/08 10:45] Maccus McCullough: There is a VW.mil working group I am a part of
*[2011/02/08 10:45] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I would also like to see a Metaverse storefront that works for many virtual worlds to get content
*[2011/02/08 10:45] Maccus McCullough: the OSD is interested in establishing policy for virtual world usage
*[2011/02/08 10:45] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): i know a guy who origally setup the LInden Lab store on the web
*[2011/02/08 10:45] Morgaine Dinova: Archivist: both code and content. The code will be GPL'd, that's already been said. And content needs to be open-licensed, since repeatedly paying for the same content just doesn't scale.
*[2011/02/08 10:46] AWM Mars: The server software is inhouse, not public release.. it can control 5,000 connections/users into a single instance
*[2011/02/08 10:46] Alisha Matova: /i have to run off to next meeting too. interesting moves Maccus=) *waves
*[2011/02/08 10:46] Maccus McCullough: feel free to IM, Alisha
*[2011/02/08 10:46] Maccus McCullough: take care
*[2011/02/08 10:46] Rex Cronon: well macus, why don't u make a site that lists what the army needs, and other pertinent info?
*[2011/02/08 10:46] JB Hancroft: Maccus - what role is NDU playing in this?
*[2011/02/08 10:46] Rex Cronon: like how much it pays, and for what...
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Maccus McCullough: it doesn't quite work that way , Rex - but we do things like sponsor IITSEC, GameTech, and the FCVW
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Melchizedek Blauvelt: who can contribute...US citizens? NATO citizens,...?
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Maccus McCullough: We talk to industry at great length and participate in activities like this
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I would be willing to setup some OpenSims and work with you, Maccus
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Rex Cronon: how r people that r interested going to know what u want and what r u prepared to give for it?
*[2011/02/08 10:47] Maccus McCullough: Fantastic
*[2011/02/08 10:49] Beyond Baroque: The usual: web site, SL group, IRC room...
*[2011/02/08 10:49] Maccus McCullough: Rex, you can participate in the conferences
*[2011/02/08 10:49] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: if your software is in-house, not public release, then you can understand why nobody cares tuppence what you're doing.
*[2011/02/08 10:49] Maccus McCullough: we have 40 sims at MiLands you can come see us
*[2011/02/08 10:49] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): An Internet Relay Chatroom is a good idea
*[2011/02/08 10:49] AWM Mars: lol.. well.. I guess someone said as much about someone who said.. I have opensim.. not public atm.. we will release it..
*[2011/02/08 10:50] Rex Cronon: IMO having a site shows comitment and professionalism:)
*[2011/02/08 10:50] Maccus McCullough: Rex, you can sign up for participation at GameTech through SL
*[2011/02/08 10:50] Rex Cronon: what conferences
*[2011/02/08 10:50] JB Hancroft: Here is one, Rex: http://www.iitsec.org/Pages/default.aspx
*[2011/02/08 10:51] JB Hancroft: another: http://www.teamorlando.org/gametech/
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Maccus McCullough: Here's another: http://www.fvwc.army.mil/
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Maccus McCullough: my advice Rex, is to become more familiar with "google"
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I/ITSEC is the largest training event for the U.S. Military each year
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): My company has an exhibit there each year
*[2011/02/08 10:51] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): BTW, for those who aren't members of AW Groupies but would like to participate in our onlgoing discussions without joining, #irc @irc.freenode.net echos our group IM
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Maccus McCullough: I like to meet the participants in person
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Beyond Baroque: SL Search shows a MiLands Senate group, but is seems closed
*[2011/02/08 10:51] AWM Mars: but I guess its the same with the outcome of the mpeg google search carried out...
*[2011/02/08 10:51] Archivist Llewellyn: quick question about IRC.... where do LL tos stand on chat relay to an from SL, say between virtual worlds or the web?
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Maccus McCullough: It is only for Military Personnel
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: what's your licensing? After the MPGE-LA disaster of h.264 which is keeping the whole world hostage to some cretins, we don't wanna go there.
*[2011/02/08 10:52] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): they haven't told us to stop doing it, archivist
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Maccus McCullough: I can answer any quesitons you have regarding MiLands
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Rex Cronon: i am familiar with online search, but first i need to know what i search for:)
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Morgaine Dinova: MPEG-LA*
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Rex Cronon: thanks for the links:)
*[2011/02/08 10:52] Beyond Baroque: You could have a MiLands Groupies group :)
*[2011/02/08 10:52] AWM Mars: Rex, I said over and over MPEG U and V formats
*[2011/02/08 10:53] AWM Mars: anyways... now you have the links.. you can read up on those...
*[2011/02/08 10:53] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: what's your licensing? After the MPEG-LA disaster of h.264 which is keeping the whole world hostage to some cretins, we don't wanna go there.
*[2011/02/08 10:54] Dahlia Trimble: Sorry I just arrived. Was there a preferred URL for MiLands?
*[2011/02/08 10:54] AWM Mars: I'm not here to 'sell' mpeg formats. just make you aware of the potential of them.
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Maccus McCullough: The cental island is http://slurl.com/secondlife/Coalition%20Island/128/128/2
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Morgaine Dinova: The potential to tie VWs up in royalty payments, you mean?
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Maccus McCullough: Hi Dahlia, I've been trying to get in touch with you
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): What is the participation like from different services, Maccus?
*[2011/02/08 10:55] AWM Mars: we are developing our own inhouse solutions for collaboration/interopability, using the mpeg formats for data moving..
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Have the Marines joined yet?
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Maccus McCullough: hahaha
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: what's your licensing?
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Maccus McCullough: The Marines have been "resistant"
*[2011/02/08 10:55] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
*[2011/02/08 10:56] AWM Mars: for what?
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Rex Cronon: hi dahlia
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): We should have Gibbs in here from NCIS;. Maybe that would bring them. LOL
*[2011/02/08 10:56] JB Hancroft: heh Joey
*[2011/02/08 10:56] JB Hancroft: you deserve a head-slap for that
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Maccus McCullough: The marines are more mission oriented and want hands on training
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): ouch
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): On it boss
*[2011/02/08 10:56] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: for the whole package deal. We have the horrid precedent of the MPEG-LA holding the world hostage for royalty payments for h.264
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Morgaine Dinova: And that's a total disaster which we don't want to repeat
*[2011/02/08 10:57] NullSubset Burner: i.e if it doent explode burn or fragment- they have 0 intrest:P
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): What about USCG?
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Maccus McCullough: the USCG is very interested
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I know they helped with the Disaster Zone
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Maccus McCullough: they are still in a mode of developing unitaskers
*[2011/02/08 10:57] JB Hancroft: I crashed... did you comment on the role of Nat'l Defense Univ?
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Maccus McCullough: the future is re-use and extensibility
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Maccus McCullough: NDU is critical
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Morgaine Dinova: Maccus++
*[2011/02/08 10:57] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): have to find ways to do more with less
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Innovation will lead to using this technology more
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Maccus McCullough: Paulette Robinson is leading the Federal Consortium for Virtual Worlds
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Maccus McCullough: she's a wonder person to work with
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Hear she has funding battles these days
*[2011/02/08 10:58] JB Hancroft: /me nods, agreeing
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Morgaine Dinova: Agree totally. Encumbered formats just don't scale as we need
*[2011/02/08 10:58] AWM Mars: you are talking gibberish.. 'the whole package'? I'm not selling any package.. I was talking about the MPEG formats, being an important development for VR. Our own solutions, currently in alpha and beta, are coming along very well, in tandem with the mpeg consortiums... some will be released to the public.. along with countless others.
*[2011/02/08 10:58] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Like much of DOD
*[2011/02/08 10:58] JB Hancroft: Maccus - do you maintain any sort of "interested parties" list of emails... ?
*[2011/02/08 10:59] Maccus McCullough: I do
*[2011/02/08 10:59] Maccus McCullough: I have the MiLands mailing list and the Military Users of Virtual Worlds list
*[2011/02/08 10:59] JB Hancroft: /me looks up www.maccus-secret-vw-skunkworks.com
*[2011/02/08 10:59] NullSubset Burner: Does Paulette have a webpage- mabye Marcus?(wanders off to look)
*[2011/02/08 10:59] Maccus McCullough: look up FCVW
*[2011/02/08 10:59] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: I see you're refusing to acknowlege the problem with the MPEG-LA and h.264. I have to assume that MPEG-V is also tied up in royalties in the same way. No thank you.
*[2011/02/08 10:59] Maccus McCullough: I am slowly converging my two large lists
*[2011/02/08 11:00] Maccus McCullough: MiLands is a SL users "subset'
*[2011/02/08 11:00] NullSubset Burner: thx
*[2011/02/08 11:00] JB Hancroft: and... GuSL ?
*[2011/02/08 11:00] AWM Mars: what has h.264 format got to do with me? I dont work for, have shares with, own anything to do with MPEG
*[2011/02/08 11:00] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): /me headslaps JB for fake Skunkwords URL
*[2011/02/08 11:00] JB Hancroft: ouch
*[2011/02/08 11:00] AWM Mars: you are fixated in a format that has noting to do with what I am reffering to.. MPEG U and V formats..
*[2011/02/08 11:01] Maccus McCullough: haha
*[2011/02/08 11:01] NullSubset Burner: http://network.associationofvirtualworlds.com/profile/PauletteRobinson
*[2011/02/08 11:01] JB Hancroft: made you look ;)
*[2011/02/08 11:01] Maccus McCullough: I'm afraid my really good stuff is behind a firewall
*[2011/02/08 11:01] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Saij - what URL do you post notes from these meetings?
*[2011/02/08 11:01] JB Hancroft: now you're channeling AWM ;)
*[2011/02/08 11:02] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies#Chat_Logs
*[2011/02/08 11:02] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): TY
*[2011/02/08 11:02] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Just missed some thigns
*[2011/02/08 11:02] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): I'll make sure this one goes up. I've been, well, remiss for a few months
*[2011/02/08 11:02] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: You're pimping MPEG formats, and you've made no statement about them being unencumbered. The last time this happened, we ended up with the MPEG-LA holding the world hostage for royalties on h.264. That's what's relevant. And we won't touch that situation with a bargepole in VWs.
*[2011/02/08 11:02] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Ahh RealXtend here
*[2011/02/08 11:03] Python Morales: greetings, yes, I'm Toni Alatalo, currently working as the principal architect of realXtend
*[2011/02/08 11:03] AWM Mars: Morgaine.. thats your freedom of choice.. like it is mine to talk about it to others.. if you dont want to use it.. fine, no skin off my nose..
*[2011/02/08 11:03] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Python is lead programmer for realXtend
*[2011/02/08 11:03] Maccus McCullough: Its a pleasure to meet you Python
*[2011/02/08 11:03] AWM Mars: lets pretend that I care.. which I dont
*[2011/02/08 11:03] Beyond Baroque: Hi Python. Pardon my being blunt, but can you address the rumors that realXtend has basically run out of money?
*[2011/02/08 11:03] Morgaine Dinova: Aha, so at long last AWM is coming clear. He's trying to find more willing slaves for the royalty machine that is the MPEG-LA.
*[2011/02/08 11:04] Rex Cronon: hello
*[2011/02/08 11:04] JB Hancroft: AWM... perhaps another time?
*[2011/02/08 11:04] Python Morales: a bit bad timing for these things here in Finland, we have two small kids and have been putting them to sleep etc .. one is already, i need to help a little bit with the other one still :)
*[2011/02/08 11:04] Morgaine Dinova: Welcome, Python :-)
*[2011/02/08 11:04] JB Hancroft: Python :)
*[2011/02/08 11:05] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Nice to have so many virtual worlds all in 1 room
*[2011/02/08 11:05] Morgaine Dinova: Python: we were really interested to see the iED videos showing realXtend support for the iED Collada formats :-)
*[2011/02/08 11:05] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): :-)
*[2011/02/08 11:06] Dahlia Trimble: Hi Python :)
*[2011/02/08 11:06] AWM Mars: ya banged me to rights Morgaine... I'm really here to sell you all a h.264 formatted server that will support over 5 million users... all for a measily $50k... no wait, thats SLE.. based upon the L.I.E.S. format
*[2011/02/08 11:06] Python Morales: Beyond, heh, that sounds quite a misunderstanding of what reX is :)
*[2011/02/08 11:06] Rex Cronon: while back i proposed that our weekly meeting be held at different times each week so that people from different time zone can participate
*[2011/02/08 11:06] Python Morales: ok done with the kids now, can concentrate
*[2011/02/08 11:07] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Is RealXtend more integrated with a LMS than other OpenSim solutions?
*[2011/02/08 11:07] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I saw a bit on use with SLOODLE, but not sure about the differences
*[2011/02/08 11:07] Rex Cronon: ...
*[2011/02/08 11:08] Maccus McCullough: has anyone considerd RealXtend with SCORM?
*[2011/02/08 11:08] Python Morales: Beyond, but it is true that there is change (not for the first time), and we haven't communicated much about that yet. basically one project ended, and resulted in starting of a foundation and we are forming an association (anyone is free to join). but basically reX is just about collaboration of anyone who wants to use and dev it, and none of the companies that use and dev it have gone bankcrupt so far :)
*[2011/02/08 11:08] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I am looking for jsut that Maccus
*[2011/02/08 11:08] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): SLOODLE has been used for SCORM I understand
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Morgaine Dinova: AWM: what I'm doing is trying to provoke you into saying "No, MPEG-V is free of royalties of any kind, so the worries over the bad precedent of the MPEG-LA royalties over h.264 is not relevant". But I have no succeeded in making you say that, so either you don't know about licensing for MPEG-V, or you're aware of the licensing encumbrances but won't say. Either way, it's not appealing.
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Maccus McCullough: I'm surprised lightning didn't strike
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): For those not familiar with SCORM, it's a set of standards for military training to be reusable
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Beyond Baroque: Sounds good Python, do you have a URL for those interested in joining the association?
*[2011/02/08 11:09] JB Hancroft: heh Maccus
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Maccus McCullough: I can see the group feels strongly about MPEG
*[2011/02/08 11:09] Python Morales: Joey, what's LMS? learning management or something? traditionally, reX is opensim based so on the server side the things are basically the same .. it's just a couple of modules added, nothing removed
*[2011/02/08 11:09] JB Hancroft: No, AWM does ;)
*[2011/02/08 11:10] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Morgaine does. I remain hopefully neutral on future MPEG ventures
*[2011/02/08 11:10] Rk Jinn: Moodle supports SCORM, Sloodle connects to moodle.
*[2011/02/08 11:10] JB Hancroft: Learning Management System. SCORM is one of the primary formats of sending into into and getting results back from learning instances, into long-term records and such
*[2011/02/08 11:10] AWM Mars: I'm not here to defend MPEG formats.. I only brought the new formats to this meetings attention... what you choose to do woth it, I don't give a dam.. IF you find them as interesting and useful as I do, along with countless others, fine.. go in peace.. but stop trying to make me defend something I dont own.
*[2011/02/08 11:10] AWM Mars: with*
*[2011/02/08 11:11] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): OK thanks, Python. I was looking at Sloodle to start. but my company has it's own LMS solutions too for a tailored learning approach
*[2011/02/08 11:11] Morgaine Dinova: Maccus: nobody like to be slave to a patent-encumbered format that limits your scalability to the size of your wallet.
*[2011/02/08 11:11] AWM Mars: I'm done talking with you about h.264 and licenses etc..
*[2011/02/08 11:11] Python Morales: Beyond B, sorry, not yet - we've been a bit of a limbo 'cause are waiting for the foundation part to get all the paperwork done, and are also waiting for one guy who's job it is to get the association going to get the paperwork there too. others are just focusing on the code and projects, basically you can join by joining the email lists or irc channels :)
*[2011/02/08 11:11] Maccus McCullough: Has anyone discussed the server side 3D rendering systems such at OTOY or OnLive?
*[2011/02/08 11:11] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): TY AWM. Wondered when we end that topic
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Python Morales: so what does the DoD want?-)
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Maccus McCullough: Morgaine: agreed
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Maccus McCullough: peace
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I can imagine great use of thigns like OnLive in approach
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Having training were you use slow computers with cloud services in a VW
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): And it runs fast
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Maccus McCullough: the biggest issue we've had with the server side rendering is the costs
*[2011/02/08 11:12] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I think they will go down over time
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Or if we build towards the capability
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Maccus McCullough: you need serious server capacity to pull it off, as well as networking pipes
*[2011/02/08 11:13] JB Hancroft: of the GPU components, or the hosting, or bandwidth?
*[2011/02/08 11:13] JB Hancroft: /mw waits for M. to say "yes"
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Maccus McCullough: for example the USNexus approach literally has 1 user per server
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Maccus McCullough: that's crazy
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Is any of the virtual drives work being tested for that yet? Like running multiple Virtual Drives to work as clouds?
*[2011/02/08 11:13] Beyond Baroque: I am permanently baffled by server side rendering. Puts the cost on the server side, does not scale.
*[2011/02/08 11:14] AWM Mars: afk..
*[2011/02/08 11:14] Maccus McCullough: that's a lot of expense to address our security issues
*[2011/02/08 11:14] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Well another concept that I think LL missed from the game engines is use of middleware for security
*[2011/02/08 11:14] Python Morales: about SCORM and such and realXtend, how we see it in the base tech is that we try to make useful basics, and easy extension points so that integration to whatever is easy. basically the same as in vanilla opensim, you can write your own region etc. modules, or own authentication connectors or whatever. but in our case the viewer is modular and extensible too, so you can do fully custom GUIs etc easily (in python or javascript)
*[2011/02/08 11:14] Maccus McCullough: Well put Joey
*[2011/02/08 11:14] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): daring to raise his own standard: one plausible use for SiliconSqueak will be for virtual worlds streaming
*[2011/02/08 11:14] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): They have a solution that protects it from getting hacked
*[2011/02/08 11:15] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): SO they don't have to be locked into one solution for server-client allocations
*[2011/02/08 11:15] JB Hancroft: /me lost to pool on how long it would take Saij to get to Squeak. darn!
*[2011/02/08 11:15] Maccus McCullough: personally I think encrypting all data before it leaves memory would solve a lot of problems
*[2011/02/08 11:15] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Has DOD been testing WebGL yet?
*[2011/02/08 11:15] Maccus McCullough: yes
*[2011/02/08 11:15] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): you should have told me earlier, JB
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Maccus McCullough: David Smith at LMCO is doing a study we commissioned to look at future VWT, given our restrictive operating environments
*[2011/02/08 11:16] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): VWT?
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I think WebGL will be frist to mobile devices
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Maccus McCullough: Lockheeds approach is in part centered on WebGL
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Python Morales: we've been testing webgl too, have a kind of a 0.1 level client, 'WebNaali', using websockets and webgl
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Maccus McCullough: virtual world technology
*[2011/02/08 11:16] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Nice
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Maccus McCullough: I can only get it to work reliably on Chrome Canary
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Maccus McCullough: I have ported some of my old openGL homework from college
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): ALso Unity 3D is close to a plugin-less application
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Python Morales: Joey, i'm also curious of webgl and mobile devices, 'cause our company (playsign) makes graphically quite simple iphone and such games
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Maccus McCullough: once Unity 3D has a "no plugin" option, they will take off
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I think so too
*[2011/02/08 11:17] Maccus McCullough: the DoD needs that desperately
*[2011/02/08 11:18] Python Morales: Joye, you mean a webgl javascript version of Unity 3d? have been wondering about that too
*[2011/02/08 11:18] Maccus McCullough: my current projects all have a web component
*[2011/02/08 11:18] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Ohh found great training resource for Unity at Design3.com
*[2011/02/08 11:18] Maccus McCullough: I like the option of running on heavy gaming gear and scaling down to portables
*[2011/02/08 11:18] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Would be nice to have multiple LODs and have the game engine scale for you eventaully
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Maccus McCullough: the LOD issues is scary to me
*[2011/02/08 11:19] JB Hancroft: the LL implementation seems so static... pre-calc'd
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Maccus McCullough: you essentially have to rebuild the content for each level
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Python Morales: reX Naali/Tundra stuff can be seen as an open source unity3d, has similar entity-component model and extensible networking etc. the level editing part we try to have with blender integration. i think it's nice to have these options, and both proprietary and open source tools, 'cause different things tend to have different strengths
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I think for LODs need to look at what the commercial animation industry has been doing in the past
*[2011/02/08 11:19] JB Hancroft: ++Joey
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): WE can learn much from Pixar and others
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Maccus McCullough: the LL implementation of vertex decomposition is designed to be fast, not good
*[2011/02/08 11:19] Maccus McCullough: (light)
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Maccus McCullough: remember this client is less than 50Mb-ish
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Maccus McCullough: WoW is what, 8Gb?
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Maccus McCullough: Starcraft is...4Gb?
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Maccus McCullough: I am constantly having to defend and compare apples to apples
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Or like Blue Mars where you download the sims you want to visit
*[2011/02/08 11:20] Maccus McCullough: poor BM
*[2011/02/08 11:21] JB Hancroft: user-created content can't be sent down ahead of time, in the same scalable terms, though...
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Melchizedek Blauvelt: WoW is 27.1Gb
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Personally I like much of the approach they used with the SIMS
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Python Morales: i wouldn't mind downloading a pack in some cases
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Maccus McCullough: Right, WoW is huge when you put it all together
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Python Morales: OTOH have been toying with the idea of testing using bittorrent for asset distribution for some worlds :)
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Center the experience and data around the avatar instead of the phycisal land
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Maccus McCullough: I'll give you guys a great example
*[2011/02/08 11:21] Melchizedek Blauvelt: That is with the 3 expansions though, yes
*[2011/02/08 11:22] Maccus McCullough: I have a 24km x 24km region of Afghanistan built out for a game engine called Big World
*[2011/02/08 11:22] Maccus McCullough: it is 8.5Gb
*[2011/02/08 11:22] Maccus McCullough: just for the terrain
*[2011/02/08 11:22] Python Morales: ah Big World
*[2011/02/08 11:22] Python Morales: we are starting to look into how to implement large worlds
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Morgaine Dinova: So it's tiny, you're saying.
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Python Morales: has been not urgent for us yet, but now one spanish company says they need it
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Why not just rez what you need when you need it? Instead of rezzing regions that weigh down a viewer, just go to the point of view from the avatar's view
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Maccus McCullough: Intel Corp has some amazing new work coming out in Open Sim. I can currently do 750 avatars on a prototype.
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Python Morales: so far the best approach i've seen, at least a nice idea, is from the sirikata guys .. it might be similar to Big World
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Rez on the fly
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Maccus McCullough: We are trying to recreate an operationally accurate environment.
*[2011/02/08 11:23] Maccus McCullough: "things" are simply far apart
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): based on proximity
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Python Morales: Maccus, i take that is the server side client manager / proxy stuff that Dan Lake and those folks were working on?
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Python Morales: the sirikata/Meru approach is based on proximity too .. just a sec i dig the refs
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Maccus McCullough: Its Dr. Mic Bowman and Chris Collins (ex Logan Linden)
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Python Morales: ok Dan is in Mic's group
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Maccus McCullough: yes
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Maccus McCullough: I got to meet with them in Portland three weeks ago
*[2011/02/08 11:24] Maccus McCullough: great work up there
*[2011/02/08 11:25] Python Morales: i was just wondering today about what's going on with that
*[2011/02/08 11:25] Python Morales: now that this large worlds issue and scalability in general is really coming to our table
*[2011/02/08 11:25] Maccus McCullough: Mic seems to think that "sims" are we know them are no longer needed
*[2011/02/08 11:25] Python Morales: Mic has visited us here in Oulu also a couple of times
*[2011/02/08 11:25] Python Morales: yah in new rex work we haven't implemented the SL model so far not at all, regions and such
*[2011/02/08 11:26] Python Morales: /me is still digging up the ref
*[2011/02/08 11:26] Maccus McCullough: in order to replicate an operational environment, I need lots of space and objects/avatars/entities
*[2011/02/08 11:26] Maccus McCullough: a typical scene for us is between 2.5-4.5 million polygons
*[2011/02/08 11:26] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I still wonder if adopting one technology (opensim) will prevent innovation in other later approaches
*[2011/02/08 11:26] Python Morales: Daniel Horn, Ewen Cheslack-Postava, Behram F.T. Mistree, Tahir Azim, Jeff Terrace , Michael J. Freedman, Philip Levis "To Infinity and Not Beyond: Scaling Communication in Virtual Worlds with Meru." http://hci.stanford.edu/cstr/reports/2010-01.pdf
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Maccus McCullough: we are looking at many approaches
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Maccus McCullough: open sim is but one
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Python Morales: yep, not everyone is using opensim
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Maccus McCullough: teleplace is another I look at closely
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Maccus McCullough: Big World is another
*[2011/02/08 11:27] JB Hancroft: thanks for the link
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Maccus McCullough: Real World
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Python Morales: we have made our new demo without opensim
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Python Morales: but it's a small world
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Morgaine Dinova: Python: Naali doesn't have the SL+TPV viewer's restriction on region size, right?
*[2011/02/08 11:27] Python Morales: i did make a test of an infinite world yesterday :)
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Maccus McCullough: so far, from what we can tell... virtual worlds until now were only good for smaller platoon level training
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Oh Maccus. WOuld the Army bein interested in developign a capabilities matrix for virtual worlds for the whole community to use?
*[2011/02/08 11:28] NullSubset Burner: as always informative- Thx Marcus- have a wonderful day Folks:)
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Maccus McCullough: Its funny you ask
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I have oen that Steve gave me and would like to help
*[2011/02/08 11:28] JB Hancroft: :)
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Maccus McCullough: everytime we try , the technology changes radically and we have to start over!
*[2011/02/08 11:28] Maccus McCullough: we even have a website for that
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Maybe having one place and may people helping to push it forward
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Python Morales: Morgaine, correct, there is no region size limit in Naali .. nor in Opensim, except that physics etc. in Opensim limit it to something. when using Naali as a server (Tundra), there really is no limit as far as scale goes 'cause you can deal with how build the physics
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Would love the URL?
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I will help drive people to it to add content
*[2011/02/08 11:29] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Cobalt/Corquet/Teleplace uses a 32-bit float for sim coordinates
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Maccus McCullough: I had it taken down as it was difficult to keep current. Was quite embarrasing. Let me look at it and see
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I really think that will make it better long term
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Maccus McCullough: I might be persuated to put it back
*[2011/02/08 11:29] Beyond Baroque: The Aurora kids seem to be pushing toward arbitrarily sized regions too
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Python Morales: Saijanai, Naali as well
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Maccus McCullough: arbitrary regions make a lot of sense
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Maccus McCullough: Folks, I need to run to my next meeting.
*[2011/02/08 11:30] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): Jilian Lombardi was talking about localized physics regions thatbased on proximaty between avatars
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Maccus McCullough: feel free to email or IM
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Python Morales: so this sirikata/Meru think i linked to works afaik so that everything can be in one space which is not paritioned to regions
*[2011/02/08 11:30] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): so you don't have to evaluate physics for objects outside your interaction range
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Python Morales: but the servers prioritize traffic based on proximity
*[2011/02/08 11:30] Maccus McCullough: Thank you Saijanai for the invitation
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Rex Cronon: tc maccus
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Morgaine Dinova: Python: that's exactly what we need -- a viewer that can travel indefinitely in an infinite region, with the server-side acreage just being instantiated on demand. The coordinates must keep increasing monotonically in both directions, not resetting as in LL's instanced model.
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Python Morales: i'm wondering if Big World and such do the same
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Rex Cronon: and welcome to groupies:)
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Xon Emoto: Thanks Maccus, great talk!
*[2011/02/08 11:31] JB Hancroft: tc Maccus - great discussion :)
*[2011/02/08 11:31] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): thanks for this talk Maccus. Feel free to set up another, and please keep in touch via group IM and/or IRC
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Maccus McCullough: I can talk about BW capabilties offline or in another discussion
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Maccus, very interesting.
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Python Morales: cheers Maccus, i'll read the log to see what you talked about :)
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Maccus McCullough: Take care all
*[2011/02/08 11:31] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Are you familar with UNIFY from Unity 3D, Doug?
*[2011/02/08 11:32] Rex Cronon: i think size of region depends on server
*[2011/02/08 11:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): UNIFY is workign to make the Indy developers strong as the major gaming companies
*[2011/02/08 11:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): By unifying their efforts
*[2011/02/08 11:32] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Sounds like something the metavers eneeds
*[2011/02/08 11:33] Python Morales: Joye, interesting, sounds like open source and what we have been doing with reX too .. it is a collaboration of some (currently 4) small gaming and vw related companies
*[2011/02/08 11:33] Python Morales: and some random individuals
*[2011/02/08 11:33] JB Hancroft: tc, all... RL calls. Good to see you all... it's been a while... buried in client projects most of the time :)
*[2011/02/08 11:33] サイ　じゃない (saijanai.kuhn): if anyone needs a Groupies invite, please let me know
*[2011/02/08 11:33] Rex Cronon: tc jb
*[2011/02/08 11:34] JB Hancroft: you too Rex
*[2011/02/08 11:34] JB Hancroft: bye for now
*[2011/02/08 11:34] Rex Cronon: :)
*[2011/02/08 11:36] Python Morales: oh nice UNIFY has a* with navigation meshes, i'd need to get that working in two weeks on reX, perhaps can port :)
*[2011/02/08 11:37] Xon Emoto: Gotta run too. Thanks to JB and Saijani for getting this going. cu all, and have a good day.
*[2011/02/08 11:37] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Can I use OAR files with RealXtend?
*[2011/02/08 11:38] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Wanted to use the one from the Univ of Edinburgh
*[2011/02/08 11:38] Python Morales: Joye, yes, for vanilla opensim content. like said we haven't removed anything from opensim, and can't even, we've just made a module to it :)
*[2011/02/08 11:39] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Also is there somewhere I can find URLs for accessing other RealXtend environments? Would like to see what they are like
*[2011/02/08 11:39] Python Morales: and that module currently implements support for (unity-style, if you wish :) custom entity-components, so that you can put arbitrary data to your scene objects .. and that data gets automatically synched to all clients, and you can use a GUI in Naali to edit that data and script client side behaviour on that data etc
*[2011/02/08 11:39] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I tried to setup my RealXtend servers this week, but found the website hard to follow
*[2011/02/08 11:39] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Doesn't tell what to do many times
*[2011/02/08 11:40] Python Morales: yah we should cleanup the wiki etc
*[2011/02/08 11:40] Python Morales: there are not many public worlds currently running, it's more used by companies to do projects for customers
*[2011/02/08 11:40] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I am working with the iED TWG and would really like to test RealXtend out personally
*[2011/02/08 11:40] Python Morales: best looking thing currently is the old beneath the waves demo
*[2011/02/08 11:41] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Ok if IM you later Python for some help with it? I take it you are on GMT time?
*[2011/02/08 11:41] Python Morales: world.realxtend.org:9000 is the default world and has auth off, it's just a sandbox, and has been even on for several months without break now but exactly today it's down :p
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): thanks
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): that should help
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Python Morales: Joye, is fine -- also we are on #realxtend and #realxtend-dev on freenode when not on SL
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Great thanks
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): I work with a multimedia film studio and recording studio in New England
*[2011/02/08 11:42] Python Morales: cool
*[2011/02/08 11:43] Python Morales: this is a video of simple example scenes that come bundled in the December Tundra 1.0 preview release, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg6SAQPW-9k
*[2011/02/08 11:44] Python Morales: you can run those locally very simply, just clicking on the scene file (similar to OAR) in your file manager
*[2011/02/08 11:44] Python Morales: it opens them in a local server which is a viewer too
*[2011/02/08 11:45] Python Morales: we have made a mode complex demo scene with that tech, with a couple of minigames, but can't share it yet 'cause there's a partner involved who's gonna announce it late this month
*[2011/02/08 11:46] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
*[2011/02/08 11:46] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): Love the Aquarium concept in RealXtend
*[2011/02/08 11:49] Virtualvian Man (joey.aboma): zThaniks
*[2011/02/08 11:50] Morgaine Dinova: Did Zha make an appearance earlier, or send a note?