Mesh/Archive/2012-08-20

==Agenda==
# Can we discuss the coming Materials System here? Nalates Urriah
# Should we expect to upload material files? Or separate texture files for normals and spec? Aki Shichiroji 12:09, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
# Will the size, repeats, offsets and orientation of the proposed maps will (initially) br locked to those of the applied texture? Drongle McMahon
# Will each map use up a material slot (of the eight)? Drongle McMahon
# Rough guestimate on when we'll first be able to play with materials ourself? Motor Loon
# Will the new materials respect existing ambient occlusion, shadows, etc.? Drongle McMahon
# Same question as a month ago; about when (rough indication would be nice) will mesh deformer gets released and integrated to the official viewer? Beanster Potato
# non-materials question: Any news RE: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 ? Aki Shichiroji 12:32, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
# Any idea what priority the additional bones issue is? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29349 Geenz Spad 12:37, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
# Possibly more of a UI issue, but drag & drop tabs in the edit floater appear to be broken in 3.4.0 (262596) Beta viewer. any idea whether this might get fixed? Aki Shichiroji 12:47, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Aargle Zymurgy (aargle.zymurgy)
*Aki Shichiroji (aki.shichiroji)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*beanster Potato (beanster.potato)
*DrFran Babcock (drfran.babcock)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Fyre Furse (fyre.furse)
*Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)
*Hoz Linden (hoz.linden)
*JIRA-helper (jira-helper)
*Motor Loon (motor.loon)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)
*Youri Ashton (youri.ashton)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday August 20, 2012==
[12:02]	Nyx Linden 	greetings all
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Vir Linden.
[12:02]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[12:02]	Motor Loon 	ey guys
[12:02]	Youri Ashton 	hey nyx :)
[12:02]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Nyx.
[12:02]	Youri Ashton 	lol, not using the tiny robot I made? :)
[12:03]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	it's suddenly become much more lindeny around here
[12:03]	Nyx Linden 	list of topics is here, feel free to add more: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:04]	Nyx Linden 	shall we get started?
[12:05]	Youri Ashton 	sure
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	topic 1: "Can we discuss the coming Materials System here? Nalates Urriah"
[12:05]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Drongle, would you add your topic to Agenda?
[12:05]	Rusalka Writer 	Yay, a topic!
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	answer: yes we can discuss the materials system. next topic! :P
[12:06]	Motor Loon 	grins
[12:06]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	oh!
[12:06]	Fyre Furse 	lol
[12:06]	Drongle McMahon 	What topic?
[12:06]	Rusalka Writer 	Ah, the love.
[12:06]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	oh boy
[12:06]	Aki Shichiroji 	will we? :P
[12:06]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	well, how about I answer that? :P
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	I kid, I kid. let's talk materials :)
[12:06]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	:) I was asking if you considered it appropiate for the group...
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	it is most definitely relevant here :)
[12:06]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Nyx Please tell us about the spec of material!
[12:06]	Youri Ashton 	first linden that is willing to discuss that topic. :p
[12:07]	Rusalka Writer 	Dang, I'm going to have to learn new stuff.
[12:07]	Youri Ashton 	many refused to talk about it, even on beta grid
[12:07]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Youri: read that blog post yet? :P
[12:07]	Motor Loon 	there's a time and place for everything ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:07]	Drongle McMahon 	Should we put material questions in the agenda?
[12:07]	Aki Shichiroji 	if you've been making bump and spec maps to bake down, it's a simple jump, i would think.
[12:07]	Nyx Linden 	for those who missed it: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/New-Open-Source-Project-to-Improve-Graphics-Rendering/ba-p/1637559
[12:08]	Drongle McMahon 	Like ... how exactly is it going to work?
[12:08]	Motor Loon 	It sure sounds bloody awesome, finally Second Life‚Ñ¢ gets up in the same catagory as "real" modern 3D graphics
[12:08]	Rusalka Writer 	Uh-oh, if Drongle has to ask I'm doomed.
[12:08]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I can answer a great deal of materials related questions being one of the people working on this, but for the sake of keeping things organized, how about everyone add their specific questions to the agenda if that's okay with Nyx?
[12:08]	Youri Ashton 	Greenz: partially, but video makes a lot clear
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	specific questions would be appreciated :)
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon 	There are too many questions to ask....
[12:09]	Youri Ashton 	your topic greenz :p
[12:09]	Aki Shichiroji 	added one
[12:09]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	spec of normal map.
[12:09]	Youri Ashton 	Any release date on this new materials?
[12:10]	Youri Ashton 	or espected release
[12:10]	Aargle Zymurgy 	why did I know someone would ask that?
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	no release date yet, or projections on when that will be
[12:10]	beanster Potato 	same question for the deformer ^^
[12:10]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	let's start with Aki's, and go from there; please add any other specifics to the agenda
[12:10]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Should we expect to upload material files? Or separate texture files for normals and spec? Aki Shichiroji 12:09, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon 	I added one
[12:11]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	currently, there's no plans to have a separate "material file", however you will have separate textures for normal maps and specular maps
[12:11]	Aki Shichiroji 	related: can they be uploaded with the model?
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	That sounds like it triples the number of textures...
[12:11]	Motor Loon 	like normal texture uploads...
[12:11]	Rusalka Writer 	The texture upload will need to be fixed along the way.
[12:11]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Aki: TBD
[12:11]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Drongle, your topic was overwrited..
[12:11]	Aki Shichiroji 	ok, thnx
[12:12]	Youri Ashton 	How will these new material types added to SL? I mean with this, how does the resident use these? Any specific on/off switch? Or need to work such things in with build menu?
[12:12]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Drongle: can you re-add your topic?
[12:12]	Rusalka Writer 	Any third-party viewers keeping up?
[12:13]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	(I guess Drongle's went AFK!)
[12:13]	Youri Ashton 	rusalka: there was a viewer working on this in the past, not sure which one it was nor if they still working on it
[12:13]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Rough guestimate on when we'll first be able to play with materials ourself? Motor Loon
[12:13]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I'm afraid not
[12:13]	Rusalka Writer 	So many new things coming along, I'm surprised anybody can keep up.
[12:14]	Aargle Zymurgy 	you could probably play wit it in blender now. :-)
[12:14]	Motor Loon 	the announcement and videos kinda lead one to belive it's almost at the doorstep...
[12:14]	Motor Loon 	¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:14]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	there's currently no estimates on when this functionality will be ready for testing, and I'm not into predicting the future :p
[12:14]	Motor Loon 	How long have you guys been working on this already?
[12:14]	Drongle McMahon 	I re=added
[12:14]	Rusalka Writer 	Those Lindens, they like their surprises.
[12:15]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you, Drongle.
[12:15]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Will the size, repeats, offsets and orientation of the proposed maps will (initially) br locked to those of the applied texture? Drongle McMahon
[12:15]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	for now, yes
[12:16]	Youri Ashton 	lol, calm down greenz. 1 topic at the time :p
[12:16]	Motor Loon 	and ofcourse it'll be face based yes?
[12:16]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	which brings us to Drongle's next question!
[12:16]	Drongle McMahon 	Does "for now" allow me to hope for the future?
[12:17]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	take it as a "we'll see" for the future :P
[12:17]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Will each map use up a material slot (of the eight)? Drongle McMahon
[12:17]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	how do you mean?
[12:17]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	as in will each material occupy a single face or?
[12:18]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	each face?
[12:18]	Rusalka Writer 	You get eight material slots per mesh.
[12:18]	Drongle McMahon 	Well, will we get eight materials, each with diffuse+spec+norm?
[12:18]	Youri Ashton 	think the lindens are doing a private convo :p
[12:18]	Aki Shichiroji 	don't they already? spec and normal should be wrapped in with diffuse, right?
[12:18]	Youri Ashton 	silent there :p
[12:18]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	presumably yes
[12:18]	Rusalka Writer 	Does this eat one of the eight (or more)?
[12:18]	Aki Shichiroji 	so potentially there could be as many as 24 textures per object?
[12:19]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	for now we're going with you can apply as many materials as your mesh (or prim) has material groups/faces
[12:19]	Drongle McMahon 	I am assuming the spec&norm are uploaded as one or two independent images. Is that right?
[12:19]	Hoz Linden 	Geenz is doing an awesome job -- no need for us to confuse the discussion. :-)
[12:19]	Rusalka Writer 	Heh heh heh. I see no potential problems there.
[12:19]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	specular and normal maps will be their own independent images
[12:19]	Youri Ashton 	its a linden OH, we espect lindens to talk along :p
[12:20]	Motor Loon 	hehe coffeebreak ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:20]	Rusalka Writer 	When we wander off-topic they go to lunch.
[12:20]	Hoz Linden 	On this subject, Geenz can speak even better than we can.
[12:20]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	:P
[12:20]	Youri Ashton 	lol
[12:20]	Hoz Linden 	If you want, I can throw in an occassional "What he said"
[12:21]	Rusalka Writer 	Phyllis Diller just died. There. Have a sandwich.
[12:21]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	haha
[12:21]	Nyx Linden 	geenz is closer to the technical implementation than I, but I do plan on reviewing the tech before its ready :)
[12:21]	Motor Loon 	How will this fanciness be compatible with old viewers? - not in the sense of them seeing it ofcourse, but in the sense of "how would an old viewer show an object using materials" ?
[12:21]	Rusalka Writer 	Is Viewer 1.23 still alive?
[12:21]	Motor Loon 	Afraid so
[12:21]	Rusalka Writer 	What is mesh viewer percentage now?
[12:21]	Rusalka Writer 	A lot of people think the majority can't see mesh.
[12:21]	Aki Shichiroji 	you can still use it to access. i only really use it to power through a batch of system dialogues. like permissions, etc
[12:22]	Drongle McMahon 	I added another question.
[12:22]	Aki Shichiroji 	or to use old search.
[12:22]	Rusalka Writer 	It harms my business.
[12:22]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Motor: can you clarify? do you mean viewers that specifically do not support materials?
[12:22]	Aargle Zymurgy 	Rusalka, I'd be willing to bet it's a minority now.
[12:22]	Rusalka Writer 	I know it is, but the perception is the problem.
[12:22]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I'll get to your next question next Drongle
[12:22]	Motor Loon 	yes
[12:22]	Motor Loon 	I mean
[12:22]	Aargle Zymurgy 	of all my friends, customers, associates and players, I have had only 3 who couldn't see my mesh creations.
[12:22]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Rusalka, they sort of quite reporting stats on mesh capable viewers when it went over 90% of all hours on SL.
[12:23]	Rusalka Writer 	Nice.
[12:23]	Rusalka Writer 	Success.
[12:23]	Motor Loon 	Lets say materials has been released... and Im still using a old Phoenix mesh viewer (no I'm not) ... how will I see objects using the new fancy stuff?
[12:23]	Aki Shichiroji 	the people who can't see mesh? have known they can't see mesh for a year or so now. they either need to accept that or update their machines.
[12:23]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I've worked out a sort of "fallback" mechanism for this
[12:24]	Rusalka Writer 	So no disaster like with mesh on a non-mesh viewer?
[12:24]	Rusalka Writer 	Just the regular texture?
[12:24]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	basically, well supply parameters *where there's direct analogs* to the old primitive params where they make sense
[12:25]	Motor Loon 	hm... that didnt make sense to me - but aslong as you have already considered any problems I'm happy ,-)
[12:25]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	Basically the transition plan for viewers is still TBD.
[12:25]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	what Vir said
[12:25]	Nyx Linden 	but we are thinking about it :)
[12:26]	Motor Loon 	nods
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	yep
[12:26]	Rusalka Writer 	An ongoing issue.
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	moving on
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Will the new materials respect existing ambient occlusion, shadows, etc.? Drongle McMahon
[12:26]	Youri Ashton 	last year Philip mentioned that 1.x viewers would not be updated anymore.
[12:26]	Motor Loon 	I'm not saying I hope you'd support old tech per say, I really hope we soon get to the point where these really old code based viewers can't keep up anymore... was just asking ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	can you be more specific please? as in the deferred renderer's ambient occlusion and shadows, or are we talking about baked maps here?
[12:26]	Rusalka Writer 	Yes, but they need to be killed with fire.
[12:27]	Drongle McMahon 	The deferred rendering ones
[12:27]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	they will
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon 	:-)
[12:28]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	anyone else want to add things to the agenda?
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	Okay, if Drongle likes it it's a good thing. Check.
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	There will be/is a Wiki with more info?
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	Things I should be studying?
[12:29]	Motor Loon 	One of SL's biggest problems as far as this is concerned (In my opinion) is just how few people actually USE deferred rendering (not that I get how they can live without lol)
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	more information will be provided the closer we get to launch, this is mostly a heads-up announcement that this is in the works
[12:29]	Rusalka Writer 	It's exciting.
[12:30]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	that said, what I will say about needing to learn things, look no further than googling "making a normal map in <your favorite 3D application here>"
[12:30]	Youri Ashton 	actually did some in-world testing yet?
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer 	I shall.
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon 	Good point, Motor. Do we know how many are using it?
[12:30]	Motor Loon 	Probably no way to tell from LL's side
[12:30]	Motor Loon 	or?
[12:31]	Drongle McMahon 	I thought the viewers told the servers that sort of thing.
[12:31]	Motor Loon 	lets run a poll right here.... how many here... right now.... is running deferred rendering on their viewer?
[12:31]	Motor Loon 	/me raises hand
[12:31]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	/me raises a paw.
[12:31]	Youri Ashton 	im on laptop, can not run it :)
[12:31]	Fyre Furse 	yes
[12:31]	Drongle McMahon 	Me
[12:32]	Youri Ashton 	pc does run it though
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	New laptop.
[12:32]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	running it on my laptop :p
[12:32]	Aki Shichiroji 	not right now, but usually.
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I run it on my desktop but not my laptop.
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	I believe a Mac and a laptop makes two strikes?
[12:33]	Drongle McMahon 	Whoops ... no I wasn't. I am now.
[12:33]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I'm on a mac laptop myself! :P
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	A second one exists!
[12:33]	Motor Loon 	hm.. surprising result though... even if most here ARE creators ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	I've been alone for so long...
[12:33]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	oop, more questions on the agenda!
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	Good.
[12:33]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	yes on my desktop
[12:33]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	though I believe these are for Nyx
[12:33]	DrFran Babcock 	on mac and laptop / no deferred
[12:33]	Drongle McMahon 	Can't see any shadows though???
[12:34]	Rusalka Writer 	Shadows I have.
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	non-materials questions! Are there any last minute questions to wrap up the materials topic first?
[12:34]	Nyx Linden 	ok then next topic: "Same question as a month ago; about when (rough indication would be nice) will mesh deformer gets released and integrated to the official viewer? Beanster Potato"
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	I do not have any new information on that personally. Oz is the best linden to ask for updates on that project as he is working on the integration directly
[12:36]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	So, far this week no one knows nothing on the Deformer...
[12:36]	Youri Ashton 	didnt see any chat message coming from Oz that mentioned anything (so far). Perhaps visit his OH and ask him on friday
[12:36]	Youri Ashton 	or is not allowed to tell ;)
[12:36]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	He has one on Thursday (open dev meeting).
[12:37]	Youri Ashton 	oh ok, not friday then :p
[12:37]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I asked this morning. No news
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "non-materials question: Any news RE: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12214 , https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-27954 ? Aki Shichiroji 12:32, 20 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:37]	JIRA-helper 	[#VWR-12214] change background colot in upload preview tool - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:37]	JIRA-helper 	[#VWR-27954] Mesh Upload Window is not resizable - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:37]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	/me adds his non-materials related question as well!
[12:37]	Rusalka Writer 	This is turning into a meeting!
[12:37]	Motor Loon 	woohoo
[12:38]	Rusalka Writer 	Rock and roll. I like both those jiras.
[12:38]	Nyx Linden 	no update on them currently, they're in a list of mesh uploader requests that we have (let me know if there are more that are particularly grievous)
[12:39]	Aki Shichiroji 	i was going to include VWR-29339, but i think that's on its way to getting fixed, you said?
[12:39]	JIRA-helper 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29339
[12:39]	Motor Loon 	is there one for the different colouruse on the preview screen... so not all is while
[12:39]	Rusalka Writer 	I was just going to ask about the floor.
[12:39]	Aki Shichiroji 	it'll be nice to see that included :D
[12:39]	Drongle McMahon 	I want the nice pastel coloured hulls back.
[12:39]	Nyx Linden 	that's in the same list, I don't think its fixed yet.
[12:39]	Rusalka Writer 	Plus the upload textures, and being able to see the texture on the model.
[12:39]	Motor Loon 	nods
[12:39]	Aki Shichiroji 	Prep said he had the code finished and just needed to do some testing, on 7/30
[12:40]	Drongle McMahon 	Oh, then there's the "Prim" setting physics weight...
[12:40]	Aki Shichiroji 	he said he 'also fixed the issue where' - but the log cuts off the rest of what he was gonna say
[12:40]	Rusalka Writer 	Sly.
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	Aki - that was with regard to which request? I'll see if I can get the log
[12:41]	Aki Shichiroji 	here's the link to that particular message: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Archive/2012-07-30#msg_170
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	/me did some maintenance on getting the logs more up to date last week, might be some transcription errors
[12:42]	Aki Shichiroji 	a few lines down, Prep responds.
[12:42]	Nyx Linden 	VWR-29339
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	ok I'll ask him about the status
[12:43]	Aki Shichiroji 	Cool, thanks!
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	yep, the code is done, but not tested yet.
[12:44]	Motor Loon 	excellent
[12:44]	Rusalka Writer 	Lots getting done.
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: Any idea what priority the additional bones issue is? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29349 Geenz Spad 12:37, 20 August 2012 (PDT)
[12:45]	JIRA-helper 	[#VWR-29349] Additional bones for rigging - Second Life Bug Tracker
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	unscheduled as of yet, would be nice to have, but has to fight its way to the top of the priority pile :)
[12:46]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I know something resembling a proposed structure would be a good idea at this point to help nudge that one along, but figured I'd ask anyways :p
[12:47]	Youri Ashton 	greenz: that topic is being discussed and asked for years now ;)
[12:47]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	and your point is? :P
[12:47]	Youri Ashton 	it likely never ends up on the top of the pile ;) lol
[12:47]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	/me snorts
[12:47]	Rusalka Writer 	And under the pile is a pony.
[12:48]	Youri Ashton 	i dare you to find it ;)
[12:48]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	just as I'm sure people thought that materials would never see the "top of the pile" either!
[12:48]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It may have a better chance with mesh on the table though.
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer 	Materials is a great surprise.
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	or server side texture baking, or mesh, or windlight estate settings.... :)
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	we get around to nifty features every so often :D
[12:48]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	indeed!
[12:48]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol...right
[12:48]	Aki Shichiroji 	/me still wants Windlight settings as transferrable assets :X
[12:48]	Motor Loon 	I'd not say materials are a surprice... I just didn't expect it for another few years ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:48]	Rusalka Writer 	You guys like surprises like Apple likes surprises.
[12:49]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "Possibly more of a UI issue, but drag & drop tabs in the edit floater appear to be broken in 3.4.0 (262596) Beta viewer. any idea whether this might get fixed? Aki Shichiroji 12:47, 20 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:49]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	so... 2 or three surprises every year then? :P
[12:49]	Nyx Linden 	good to know, is there a jira for this bug?
[12:49]	Aki Shichiroji 	mmm... i'll get back to you on that? it's been bugging me but i haven't found a specific JIRA. i probably just need to dig deeper.
[12:50]	Aki Shichiroji 	i don't know if that is what that functionality is normally called
[12:50]	Motor Loon 	Any more major feature release this year and I might get heart problems though lol
[12:50]	Aki Shichiroji 	but you know what i mean, right?
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	its also possible you've found a bug that hasn't been discovered yet!
[12:50]	Aki Shichiroji 	like dragging inventory items to the contents tab without having to have the contents tab on top
[12:50]	Youri Ashton 	add to that: search itself breaks now and then as well
[12:50]	Aki Shichiroji 	oh search is horrid on the current beta
[12:51]	Aki Shichiroji 	particular to inventory
[12:51]	Rusalka Writer 	Search works sometimes?
[12:51]	Youri Ashton 	search breaks, search results sometimes get error pages
[12:51]	Youri Ashton 	instead of the results
[12:52]	Nyx Linden 	please do file a bug for the tabs issue though :)
[12:52]	Aki Shichiroji 	ok
[12:53]	Nyx Linden 	any last minute topics for this week, or should we wrap up here?
[12:53]	Aki Shichiroji 	ack
[12:53]	Aki Shichiroji 	i need to add something
[12:53]	Youri Ashton 	go ahead
[12:53]	Aki Shichiroji 	can i just type it here?
[12:53]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	was about to say :P
[12:53]	Youri Ashton 	1 more isnt too bad :)
[12:53]	Aargle Zymurgy 	I have a question, but I need to get the exact error message
[12:53]	Fyre Furse 	sorry everyone have to run thank you „ã°
[12:53]	Aki Shichiroji 	Cya Fyre
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Fyre
[12:53]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[12:53]	Youri Ashton 	laters fyre
[12:54]	Aki Shichiroji 	With the current beta build, i've noticed many sculpts LOD down abnormally.
[12:54]	Aki Shichiroji 	like hair - flattens out like a pancake instead of getting jaggy like normal
[12:54]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	That's been fixed.
[12:55]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Was a known bug with flexis set to a softness of 1.
[12:55]	Rusalka Writer 	That was fast.
[12:55]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	I reported it ages ago when I got into viewer-development.
[12:55]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	I/it*
[12:55]	Aki Shichiroji 	strange. I only noticed it with this latest build.
[12:55]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	She said sculpts not flexis.
[12:55]	Aki Shichiroji 	anyhow., good to know it's fixed. Thanks Koli.
[12:56]	Aki Shichiroji 	let me check my screencap.
[12:56]	Aki Shichiroji 	i would put it up if i could build here.
[12:56]	Aargle Zymurgy 	ok, it's partly happening now. I've got a simple mesh that I tried to get the fee and impact for a mesh, but it's simply not returning
[12:56]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	She mentioned the hair bug 'flattening' which really sounds like the flexi bug. :p
[12:56]	Nyx Linden 	definitely retest and let us know if it is still an issue for you
[12:57]	Aki Shichiroji 	ugh. let me upload and drop you a screencap, Koli. It may or may not be the same thing
[12:57]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Like this, Aki? VWR-29271
[12:57]	JIRA-helper 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29271
[12:57]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Screenshots there.
[12:58]	Nyx Linden 	2 minutes remain - any other questions?
[12:58]	Rusalka Writer 	I was having that one the week after I got this new computer. Thought it was Mountain Lion. Then it went away. Aha.
[12:58]	Aargle Zymurgy 	hm... any reason that I'm having the problem I'm having right now?
[12:59]	Aargle Zymurgy 	MAV_BLOCK_MISSING error
[12:59]	Youri Ashton 	thanks for having us Nyx.
[12:59]	Youri Ashton 	im off :)
[12:59]	Youri Ashton 	bye bye all
[12:59]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[12:59]	Aargle Zymurgy 	what's the cause and/or cure for that problem?
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye Youri
[12:59]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I can't run official vierer on windows8 RTM.
[12:59]	Aki Shichiroji 	eh. well i've seen that too. but it's more like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/kitheres/7825940930/in/photostream
[12:59]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Please update table of video card..
[12:59]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	Aki - that's the same bug.
[12:59]	Aki Shichiroji 	it's not flexis though
[13:00]	Motor Loon 	I'd usually get MAV_BLOCK when trying to upload a physics model with errors in... fix the errors in my file and no problem.
[13:00]	Aargle Zymurgy 	well, I only get it when I set low/lowest to "Use LoD above"
[13:00]	Aargle Zymurgy 	no problems with setting use above for Medium
[13:00]	Motor Loon 	and what do you have above?
[13:00]	Aargle Zymurgy 	and, Ineed to point out, these are brutally simple meshes
[13:01]	Drongle McMahon 	I think lots of problema give that same message.
[13:01]	Aargle Zymurgy 	High = Load from file.
[13:01]	Aargle Zymurgy 	all others set to Use LoD above.
[13:01]	Aargle Zymurgy 	the relative simplicity of the models is why i'm doing that.
[13:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It's a catchall error given out for vastly different problems.
[13:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Using the load from above at the lowest level makes the impact explode. I've stopped trying it.
[13:01]	Motor Loon 	same problem is you specify the same file for each slot?
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy 	however, for some of the meshes, if I set low/lowest touse the ones above it refuses
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy 	hm...good question, Motor
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy 	that's easy enough to try now
[13:02]	Motor Loon 	yes
[13:03]	Aargle Zymurgy 	nope... same problem
[13:03]	Motor Loon 	what are you using for physics shape?
[13:03]	Aargle Zymurgy 	none
[13:03]	Motor Loon 	no such thing
[13:03]	Aargle Zymurgy 	there is if you don't choose one. :-)
[13:03]	Nyx Linden 	if you have a reliable repro, definitely send it in. there are a couple of good mesh volunteer groups that have gotten good at figuring out that one as well
[13:04]	Drongle McMahon 	If you don't tell it, it will use the convex hull of the lowLOD for the default physics shape.
[13:04]	Motor Loon 	try selecting a simple cube as your physics and see if the fixes the problem
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy 	well, that's the thing: it's not doing it to all my meshes.
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy 	and, fwiw, my stuff is almost always cubes or just flat surfaces.
[13:05]	Motor Loon 	its possible the "simple mesh" you're trying to upload just dont generate a useable physics model, so try a custom one instead
[13:05]	Aargle Zymurgy 	well, setting physics has no impact on the problem which is why I was leaving it out of the discussion
[13:05]	Nyx Linden 	/me has to run to his next meeting, thanks for coming out everyone!
[13:05]	Aki Shichiroji 	Thanks for the meeting!
[13:05]	Rusalka Writer 	Winning meeting!
[13:05]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Adios Nyx
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy 	only certain meshes and only when using them verbatim with low/lowest
[13:06]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[13:06]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you Nyx.
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