Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-08-08

[15:06] Simon Linden: ok, welcome everyone
[15:06] Jason4Life80 Alecto: no voice right now
[15:06] Inara Breen: Hey, Baker!
[15:07] Rex Cronon: hi baker
[15:07] Simon Linden: Maestro is on vacation for a bit, so you have substitutes today :P
[15:07] Lucia Nightfire: itsa Whirls
[15:07] Jenna Felton: when i crash, or loose connection, rather to say, i cant chat too, and my hug&kiss hud has no reaction when i click it. than i know i am off SL
[15:07] Lucia Nightfire: I remember substitute teachers, some were cool, some didn't havea clue, lol
[15:07] Simon Linden: Thanks for dealing with the region being down ... I'll see if I can get Ahern back too
[15:07] Jenna Felton: hehe Lucia
[15:08] Simon Linden: For simulator news, we updated the code on BlueSteel yesterday
[15:08] Lucia Nightfire: Simon , some idiot used a God Ender bullet here it can be seen on the world map
[15:08] Simon Linden: The other two channels with the SSA code didn't get updated
[15:08] Simon Linden: in Ahern? ok, I'll roll it back if it doesn't come up again
[15:08] Baker Linden: Lucia, where is that?
[15:08] Whirly Fizzle: Whats a God ender bullet?
[15:08] Lucia Nightfire: that clump of green
[15:09] Lucia Nightfire: a god ender bullet is a popular sim crasher
[15:09] Simon Linden: it's a big ugly griefer object with a zillion surfaces intersecting in odd ways
[15:09] Simon Linden: it drives Havok a bit crazy
[15:09] Baker Linden: I don't see it in the map, unless you mean mini-map
[15:09] Whirly Fizzle: ahh right
[15:09] Simon Linden: The deploy news and links are here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-08-05/td-p/2123527
[15:10] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SEC-1198 pic 2 shows the bullet and its effects on TD/FPS
[15:10] Rex Cronon: .
[15:10] Lucia Nightfire: fire
[15:10] Simon Linden: We already have tentative plans for next week ... the code in BlueSteel may get promoted if the crash rate remains low
[15:10] Simon Linden: The SSA code is not getting promoted next week, but we're aiming for the following week
[15:10] Whirly Fizzle: Yay!
[15:11] Simon Linden: There's going to be an update to the baking servers next week, which is just done behind the scenes with no down time, and we'll see how that does
[15:11] Jenna Felton: that is good, i had a problem with undresing me. i had to go to an SSA enabled region to make me back rigcht :)
[15:11] Whirly Fizzle: Need more ovens huh?
[15:11] Kennylex Luckless: Quickie: Second Life 3.6.2 (279364) with Google Crash thing, will it help the Lab get better crash info?
[15:12] Simon Linden: Yes Kenny, that gets viewer crash info
[15:12] Jenna Felton: i mean redresing, not un
[15:12] Simon Linden: We don't want to ship it half-baked, Whirly :P
[15:13] Jason4Life80 Alecto: so will there be less crashing problems onces things are in place
[15:15] Rex Cronon: .
[15:15] Simon Linden: There's a new server maintenance release for next week but it doesn't have much exciting in it ... there's one fix for a performance problem that can occur in very specific situations where you have to have neighbor regions, AVs over on those regions and such, but that will hopefully just be a silent improvement
[15:15] Frans Charming: It's Kelly Linden! :D
[15:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): :)
[15:16] Simon Linden: That's all I have for news ... Baker, Caleb, Kelly ... does anyone have other news?
[15:16] Simon Linden: If not, then we're open for questions or topics
[15:16] Kennylex Luckless: Bling!
[15:16] Sandry Logan: Can anyone tell me if something changed recently that would result in an increased number of collisions for pathfinding characters?
[15:17] Caleb Linden: how recent?
[15:17] Sandry Logan: On my region, in the top collisions window, I see all almost the characters' scores as 0.460 and I'm sure it didn't used to be as high as that, although sadly I have no documentation to prove it.
[15:17] Simon Linden: I can't think of anything changing there
[15:17] Sandry Logan: it only came to my attention this week Caleb. But the resident that told me said it might have been a couple or three weeks ago that she noticed it
[15:18] Jenna Felton: there was change with new haracter flags in this time
[15:18] Lucia Nightfire: increased region efficiency can also yield more eps with collisions or scripts
[15:18] Jenna Felton: character*
[15:18] Caleb Linden: that's right, we introduced the stay-within-parcel flag
[15:19] Sandry Logan: and should there be the same number if they're on the terrain or on a prim floor?
[15:19] Sandry Logan: only it seems to be the same across the board
[15:19] Simon Linden: I don't know if terrain collisions are counted in that number
[15:20] Lucia Nightfire: I would hope they are, heh
[15:20] Sandry Logan: in the past i thought not. but it seems to be almost a flat 0.46 no matter where the character is
[15:20] Sandry Logan: and no matter whether they are moving or not
[15:21] Simon Linden: That definitely seems odd, Sandy
[15:22] Caleb Linden: what kind of values was it before the report?
[15:22] Caleb Linden: just a ballpark
[15:22] Sandry Logan: sadly i have no recollection
[15:22] Sandry Logan: i remember looking at the characters last year when we introduced them in place of the physical pets we made...
[15:23] Sandry Logan: and thinking that the characters made a lot less collisions
[15:23] Jenna Felton: can you take all characters off land to see if something changes?
[15:23] Sandry Logan: ...but that;s hardly scientific
[15:23] Sandry Logan: i don't seem to have ever recorded any figures :c(
[15:23] Jenna Felton: and rezz again to find out where is the problem
[15:24] Sandry Logan: it's the character collision scores in the Top Colliders window Jenna - rezzing them again doesn't seem to make a difference
[15:24] Simon Linden: Do they seem to behave and perform normally?
[15:25] Sandry Logan: yes, Simon. but i am worried that if they ARE making more collisions, then its going to start causing problems with lag
[15:25] Sandry Logan: ...when people have a number of them out
[15:25] Simon Linden: right, I understand
[15:26] Lucia Nightfire: the physics engine's settings allow lite physics use to impact TD/FPS severely
[15:27] Lucia Nightfire: I have a question about that anim revoke thing again, lol
[15:27] Lucia Nightfire: more lieka why didn't you do it this way type question, heh
[15:28] Lucia Nightfire: why wasn't there the option of allowing a viewer to specify the animation options for teh user of "Only allow objects I'm sitting on or are attached to me to animate me." and the agent carries that flag everywhere it goes.
[15:29] Lucia Nightfire: instead of relying on the user to explicitly revoke animations if and when they occur
[15:30] Simon Linden: well, they're tied into the permissions used for a bunch of things ... generally you get asked if some object can do those things, like animate you and such
[15:30] Simon Linden: There are the special cases for sitting, which auto-grants them
[15:30] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, thats non-autogranted
[15:31] Lucia Nightfire: I'm just saying that an option of givign users that ability will deter the most common unwanted perms stealing means.
[15:31] Simon Linden: I don't know the historical decisions but that's were it ended up ... I guess there could be options to automatically confirm or deny permission requests.
[15:31] Simon Linden: It couild all be done in the viewer too
[15:32] Lucia Nightfire: what I really wanted to ask is if teh experience perms could be used as such
[15:32] Lucia Nightfire: but I have no clue on how those are goign to be used or if it is applciabel at all
[15:33] Jenna Felton: i think experience tools wil be interesting thing
[15:34] Lucia Nightfire: I mean teh scripted AO is sort of a flag that gets carried with you right? the server recognizes it everywhere you go, I figure you could do the same with anim requests.
[15:34] Simon Linden: The experience tools does some auto-granting and allows scripts to do things others can't, but I'm not familiar with the fine details of those functions
[15:34] Simon Linden: Do you mean the new AO LSL functions?
[15:35] Lucia Nightfire: yes, just making a reference of flags that servers recognize
[15:35] Rex Cronon: as long as the experience tools don't auto-grant the right to transffer $L...
[15:35] Lucia Nightfire: I would hope not, lol
[15:36] Frans Charming: Only to baker
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: what I'm hoping for is probably wishful thinking
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: I think exp tools will be game oriented liek pf
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: not give land owner's or users tools to grant,limit,block certain resource usage
[15:36] Lucia Nightfire: or abilities
[15:37] Simon Linden: That's right, Lucia ... it really is about granting some permissions and not resource usage
[15:37] Lucia Nightfire: but we'll see, lol
[15:37] Frans Charming: ;)
[15:37] Jason4Life80 Alecto: crash
[15:38] Jason4Life80 Alecto: i always seem to be crashing donot know why
[15:38] Whirly Fizzle: File a JIRA with logs :)
[15:38] Rex Cronon: i crashed a few minutes ago too. why? i have no idea either
[15:39] Rex Cronon: actually i didn't crash. i got disconnected
[15:39] Simon Linden: That's usually a network issue
[15:39] Jason4Life80 Alecto: i did says having troble
[15:40] Lucia Nightfire: I would kill to have a means of making a setting in my sandboxes per public agent Number of prims allowed: #, Number of physics prims allowed: Number of scipts allowed: #, Max total script time allowed: #, etc
[15:40] Lucia Nightfire: instad of the overhead I have now
[15:41] Simon Linden: That would be an interesting way to slice it ... having very open land but put hard limits on each AV's usage
[15:41] Lucia Nightfire: Coalesced object rezzing allowed Y/N, lol
[15:41] Lucia Nightfire: 99% of use cases you have to worry about are public rezzing
[15:41] Rex Cronon: u want to do that for avatar that comes there?
[15:42] Lucia Nightfire: if you have problems with group emmebrs abusing things thats soemthing internal you have to address, heh
[15:42] Rex Cronon: each avatar*
[15:43] Simon Linden: yeah, rezzing is very time-consuming so it's a favorite event for griefers to stress
[15:43] Lucia Nightfire: naw, I'm just saying I should be abel to set a limit for resources for guests
[15:43] Lucia Nightfire: no guest should be able to drop 3k 5k 15k of coalesced prims
[15:43] Lucia Nightfire: moderation is 99% reactive, not proacitve
[15:43] Lucia Nightfire: you can't defend or deter that without such tools
[15:44] Lucia Nightfire: I'm constantly reminde of it when I get throwaway accounts droppign sim crashers in sandboxes
[15:44] Lucia Nightfire: you're lucky if the sim deosn't crash before you can deal with it
[15:44] Lucia Nightfire: and thats it you have staff on hand
[15:44] darkenedshadow: May I ask is there any plans to have SLi support for SL and maybe some information on the current progress of the Oculus Rift supported development viewer?
[15:45] Rex Cronon: u could use lsl to find out how many things has each person rezzed and than u could send them home and return their prims
[15:45] Lucia Nightfire: or if you're lucky, have scripted objects that can do it if the region isn't lagged to death first
[15:45] Lucia Nightfire: yes, Rex, but thats overhead, significant overhead depending on what you're lookign for and what you allow
[15:46] Simon Linden: I can comment a little on the Rift ... I tried it out on the code in development and it's pretty cool. It still needs work and there's no estimates when it will go out, but we'll have a project viewer at some point
[15:46] Simon Linden: It requires very careful building in SL, however, as it really needs high frame rate
[15:46] Rex Cronon: i thin i have something that can help u with that:)
[15:47] Rex Cronon: think*
[15:47] Frans Charming: Rift Optimized Sims(tm)
[15:48] Rex Cronon: i saw videos of people loosing their balance when they put the rift glasses on
[15:48] Frans Charming: yea
[15:48] darkenedshadow: It is not something you can stand up with, the motion sickness will bring you to the ground quickly
[15:48] Simon Linden: It can be pretty unpleasant when it's not adjusted well or the motion is off
[15:48] Caleb Linden: hilarious
[15:48] Frans Charming: especially in the roller coaster example
[15:49] darkenedshadow: The SLi would be a cool idea for SL though, so far just messing with some Nvidia setting I can kinda get it to work, although it is massivly un balanced in which GPU gets the most rendering load, even under some changes causes SL to have worse FPS :s
[15:50] Simon Linden: I'm not sure about SLi support ... that would be a good one for the open source meeting
[15:50] Rex Cronon: imagine what effect will have on somebody wearing them if they r being griefed. like tons of marios, cubes bumping, orbiting, batman, bannana phones....
[15:50] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7964 (Add SLI and Crossfire support.)
[15:51] Simon Linden: That would definitely be cool
[15:52] Simon Linden: Perhaps the Rift work will add more reason to do that
[15:52] darkenedshadow: The rift can utilize two GPU's although being still a development model still has its flaws using both
[15:53] Rex Cronon: one for each eye?
[15:54] Simon Linden: We're still getting the basics going ... some simple things like a menu, UI buttons and clicking in-world are tough to get right in the Rift
[15:55] Jason4Life80 Alecto: oh the virtual reality thing
[15:56] Rex Cronon: oculus rift
[15:56] Jason4Life80 Alecto: would be cool if SL come to mobile devices and where you can see your avator in world
[15:57] Jason4Life80 Alecto: like on tablets
[15:57] Simon Linden: yes, definitely
[15:57] Jason4Life80 Alecto: that would be very neat to see or test out
[15:57] Simon Linden: I haven't tried it but I know the Lumiya viewer does some world-drawing
[15:57] Rex Cronon: i think there r viewers for mobile devices
[15:57] Simon Linden: Pocket Metaverse doesn't
[15:58] Jason4Life80 Alecto: nope thats only text and teleport but you can still walk with it still on mini map and arrows
[15:58] Inara Breen: Lumiya does a decent job of presenting SL and has a lot of functionality
[15:59] Simon Linden: I've heard good things about it but just don't have any Android devices
[15:59] Jason4Life80 Alecto: i like to see it happen but maybe thats the next technology to come
[15:59] Jenna Felton: maybe
[16:00] Jason4Life80 Alecto: i also seen issues where i have to click on objects in sl to render them up fully is this some sorta rendering issue
[16:00] Simon Linden: yes, we've been working on update bugs like that recently
[16:01] Jason4Life80 Alecto: ok
[16:01] Jenna Felton: me too, trees without leaves, you need right-clicht them to see fully
[16:01] Lucia Nightfire: Somehow idt Andrews work will truely be over on the interest list, lol
[16:01] Jason4Life80 Alecto: i had tp do that today in a infor area head water info sim
[16:03] Jason4Life80 Alecto: how about getting stuck in mid air walking in one spot
[16:04] Jason4Life80 Alecto: some times i has to press home button to get out of it
[16:04] Simon Linden: We're over the hour now, and I need to get going
[16:04] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming out and the good chat