Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.01.13

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.01.10	Next 2012.01.17
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden	Ardy Lay
Davido Chrome	Kallista Destiny
Kaluura Boa 	Misty Aries
Moundsa Mayo 	Nalates Urriah
Rex Cronon 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi
Simon Linden 	Vincent Nacon
== Transcript ==
[16:04] Davido Chrome: Well no it wasn't.
[16:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: These are non-scripted.
[16:04] Davido Chrome: SVC-7589
[16:04] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7589
[#SVC-7589] Two or three sim crossings on a vehicle in fast succession cause you to be orbited
[16:04] Kallista Destiny: Ave Andrew
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: actually I didn't pop the script back in
[16:04] Andrew Linden: hello
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: it's still no script
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: heya
[16:04] Sahkolihaa Contepomi wants to poke about what happened to assets earlier.
[16:04] Davido Chrome: Hello Andrew.
[16:05] Kallista Destiny: not to mention the http problems
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Alright, news...
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Today I have even less news than normal...
[16:07] Andrew Linden: not only no news, but I'm trying very hard to not complain about what a bad week I've had fighting with linker errors
[16:07] Kallista Destiny: Ahh In Isvestia is not Pravda, and in Pravda is no Isvestia.
[16:07] Vincent Nacon: no doubt about that
[16:07] Davido Chrome: Linker errors?
[16:07] Andrew Linden: I know eventually this it will be a funny memory
[16:07] Kallista Destiny: Complain way
[16:08] Kallista Destiny: no linker errors are never a funny memory
[16:08] Kallista Destiny: Other people's linker problems are funny
[16:08] Andrew Linden: but I've been struggling with trying to link some newly built libs with the simulator
[16:08] Andrew Linden: and as a result I was burnt out before lunch today
[16:09] Andrew Linden: (it is Friday today, right?)
[16:09] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: yes
[16:09] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Toying with new libs is never fun. :/
[16:09] Kallista Destiny: Yes TGIF
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: Friday the 13th
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: O-o
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Ok. Simon if you have any news go ahead.
[16:09] Kallista Destiny: Whwich explains everything
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Oh right, the 13th... I'd blame the bad date, but my misery started on Wed I think.
[16:09] Simon Linden: Let's see ... we had an aborted rollout on Wednesday of some new server code
[16:10] Simon Linden: There was a crash problem that prevented some regions from coming back up, so we quickly switched to some other code
[16:10] Kallista Destiny: That was Wed?
[16:10] Simon Linden: Yes
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: problems don't snowball on 13th... it's a day of realization!
[16:11] Simon Linden: That's been fixed up and is scheduled for next week, possibly along with another branch that has even more bug fixes
[16:12] Simon Linden: Also, Monday is a holiday in the USA, so there won't be much done between now and the next user group on Tuesday
[16:13] Simon Linden: That's it for me
[16:13] Davido Chrome: Does this mean llSetRegionPos never went live?
[16:14] Simon Linden: That's correct, it didnt' make it out
[16:14] Kallista Destiny: MLK day, except in the South where it's Jackson/Lee day.
[16:14] Davido Chrome: MLK?
[16:14] Rex Cronon: martin luther king
[16:14] Kallista Destiny: Martin Luther King
[16:15] Kallista Destiny: and Tomas Jonathan. Jackson, Robert Edward Lee.
[16:15] Davido Chrome: Uh. Not much said here.
[16:16] Davido Chrome: SVC-7589
[16:16] Kallista Destiny: Both Jackson and Lee would probably be upset.
[16:16] Kaluura Boa: Meeter is on holidays...
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: it's ok, I won't miss it
[16:16] Andrew Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7589
[16:16] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-7589] Two or three sim crossings on a vehicle in fast succession cause you to be orbited
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: oh that's new
[16:17] Kaluura Boa: Orbited... Yeah... That's new!
[16:17] Davido Chrome: Once it had happened to me the tenth time I realized there was a pattern...
[16:17] Kallista Destiny: not
[16:17] Andrew Linden: Ah good, a more specific region crossing bug rather than the general "region crossings fail"
[16:18] Simon Linden: hmmm, that's an interesting one
[16:18] Andrew Linden: Davido, are you saying that very slow region crossings on a vehicle are very reliable for you?
[16:18] Rex Cronon: u were ejected, and no longer sitting?
[16:18] Kaluura Boa: Never seen... But being re-sitted on TP, I've seen more than once.
[16:18] Kallista Destiny: So don't put the turn Buoys at the corner of a sim.
[16:19] Davido Chrome: Hehe. Nah, I just run around aimlessly when I am modding the bike script I am working on. that's how I noticed it.
[16:19] Kallista Destiny: ahh *grins*
[16:20] Davido Chrome: Slow sim crossings seem semi reliable... Depending on Zodiac and if I sacrificed a goat before.
[16:21] Nalates Urriah: PATA will get you
[16:21] Nalates Urriah: PETA^
[16:21] Andrew Linden: yeah, that is my understanding, so it wouldn't surprise me that rapid crossings will fail within a few
[16:21] Andrew Linden: slow crossings may also fail... that test just takes longer
[16:22] Davido Chrome: This one seems to Allways happen though.
[16:22] Andrew Linden: ack... gotta go deal with something. back in about 2 min
[16:23] Simon Linden: I did some work multi-threading the crossings ... if you re-cross quickly, you may not be fully added to the 2nd region yet. It has to recover from that, and has been coded and tested to do it, but I wonder if that's a factor
[16:23] Davido Chrome: There, if you want to try. XD
[16:23] Kallista Destiny: Alve so if you go puttering up a region boundry in a wiggly path you die?
[16:23] Simon Linden: And you can make it happen repeatedly?
[16:23] Davido Chrome: Yeah.
[16:24] Davido Chrome: Kinda.
[16:24] Kallista Destiny: what about spinning around a cornet (4 regions)
[16:24] Kallista Destiny: corner
[16:24] Davido Chrome: Oh, I think I have done that.
[16:24] Davido Chrome: It's headache inducing...
[16:25] Kallista Destiny: yeah but that makes adifferent problem
[16:25] Davido Chrome: Because you get orbited just like that, and the camera flutters around like mad.
[16:25] Davido Chrome: That's a detaile I forgot tom mention, the camera flutters around like mad.
[16:25] Kallista Destiny: you're going between 4 regions and that might give the regions time to sort of
[16:25] Kallista Destiny: keep up
[16:25] Andrew Linden: back
[16:26] Rex Cronon: wb
[16:26] Kallista Destiny: becasue going abcd your not back to a before a has finished getting tif of you
[16:26] Davido Chrome: Yeah, but it flutters like mad when there are just two involved as well.
[16:26] Rex Cronon: how u describe it makes it sound like u clicked on some type of griefign object
[16:26] Rex Cronon: griefing*
[16:27] Andrew Linden: Oh that reminds me... I completed the 8-neighbor code a month ago and put that into the maint-server pipeline
[16:27] Kallista Destiny: OH wonderful
[16:27] Andrew Linden: it is probably in the same update that has llSetRegionPos()
[16:27] Andrew Linden: so not out yet, but should be soon
[16:27] Kallista Destiny: so now encroachment across a cornet can be delt with?
[16:27] Rex Cronon: so now all the surrounding 8 sims knwo where u r?
[16:27] Andrew Linden: it should reduce the problem at the corners
[16:28] Andrew Linden: but not solve region crossing problems outright
[16:28] Andrew Linden: well, if you walk up to a region corner you can still see into the three other regions at that corner
[16:29] Kallista Destiny: I think that the expidited clean up after exited avatars needs to be promoted.
[16:29] Andrew Linden: so your viewer was already in communication to the diagonal regions
[16:29] Andrew Linden: however, some info is being relayed to the corner region from the two side-adjacent regions
[16:30] Andrew Linden: and when walking into the corner you would first have to pass through one of the corner regions, even if you stepped right across the diagonal
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] Davido Chrome: Ah,like they were a region away.
[16:30] Andrew Linden: in the new code you should be able to travel directly to the neighbor region if you happen to step across the exact corner
[16:31] Andrew Linden: it is easier to tunnel into the corner neighbor when moving quickly
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Yeah, it should work, and will be just one less region crossing to get there
[16:32] Kaluura Boa: Good to hear. Diagonal crossings have always been problematic...
[16:32] Simon Linden: That should definitely help in some crossing cases
[16:32] Davido Chrome nods. Just need to point out that the problem I filed the Jira for was specific for two regions.
[16:32] Kallista Destiny: so if you are traveling fast enough that between frames you move from a to c..
[16:32] Davido Chrome: If there is four involved, it usually disconnects me.
[16:33] Simon Linden: Right, Alve ... I suspect that problem has to do with re-crossing before you're fully in the 2nd region. It works OK if you go slowly, right?
[16:34] Davido Chrome: Yeah. The problem happens when I am in a turn, and the lag makes me turn back and cross back over.
[16:35] Davido Chrome: Actually, I have noticed that sometimes simcrossings turn me around even if I was not turning.
[16:36] Davido Chrome: Like in that movie, at the mouth of Madness, with Sam Niell.
[16:36] Andrew Linden: Davido, what kind of vehicle is this? An air vehicle or ground?
[16:36] Davido Chrome: The one you see before you.
[16:36] Andrew Linden: Ah ok.
[16:36] Andrew Linden: I could see how you might bounce back for a ground vehicle, but air vehicles should be better.
[16:37] Andrew Linden: the vehicle is arriving in the new region and can sometimes interpenetrate objects or the terrain on arrival
[16:37] Simon Linden: oh, interesting point, Andrew
[16:38] Andrew Linden: yes, region crossings need work... I need more hours in the day, and a lack of linker errors would be nice
[16:38] Simon Linden: That might push the vehicle back
[16:38] Rex Cronon: if your plane is firing it could be possible that it will occupy the same place as your bullets:)
[16:39] Davido Chrome: Actually, that would be cool, If you as estate manager could set the region boundaries to just quietly turn you around.
[16:39] Simon Linden: Is the ground fairly flat where you had this, lve?
[16:39] Davido Chrome: There are buildings at the sides of the roads.
[16:40] Simon Linden: OK, random idea here, not a future feature, etc ... would it be useful to have contorls for a region about which sides or places you might cross in?
[16:40] Davido Chrome: Yes.
[16:40] Andrew Linden: Davido, your motorcycle is mesh? Does it use physics simplification settings?
[16:40] Davido Chrome: It's not mesh, but uses physics simoplification settings.
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: Simon, there was an idea long ago about "warping" around to other side of the sim
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: while being in the same sim whole time
[16:41] Simon Linden: That would be a bit odd, but could be fun
[16:41] Andrew Linden: ah yes I see
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:41] Misty Aries: physics simplification?
[16:42] Davido Chrome: Also, there is something in the rear wheel scruipt that makes you not able to see the weights. I didn't know this, though, Charlar found it when I sent him a copy of the bike for other purposes.
[16:42] Simon Linden: You can set the shape taht the physics engine uses for the object to be something a lot simpler than what you see
[16:42] Andrew Linden: Pieces of the motorcycle are specified to not have any physics collisions
[16:42] Misty Aries: ahhh, thanks.
[16:42] Andrew Linden: which simplifies the physics required to compute collisions with other objects and the terrain
[16:42] Davido Chrome: It makes it really low lag. I can control it when other bikes are floating away!
[16:42] Vincent Nacon: sculpty are sphere based, just select sculpty and change type back to sphere to see it's "physic simplication"
[16:42] Ardy Lay: 1 object, 31 prims, land impact 40. That still doesn't make sense to me.
[16:43] Andrew Linden: Ardy, the land impact of 40 is not because of physics, but something else
[16:44] Davido Chrome: I am using the physics system set in by Mesh, so the land imact gets calculated as if it were Mesh.
[16:44] Andrew Linden: we only limit to 32 "physics impact", prior to setting the object dynamic ("physical")
[16:45] Andrew Linden: right, if you use the "no collision" setting on child prims then you are opting into the mesh accounting for "land impact"
[16:45] Davido Chrome: A general sculpty bike has about 54 in Physics weight. This onhe has about 8.8.
[16:45] Andrew Linden: it's complicated, I know
[16:45] Davido Chrome: Look at this bike by Tama for instance.
[16:46] Davido Chrome: I wish I had his skill with Sculpting and texturing...
[16:46] Andrew Linden: I was asking because the more complex the collision shape may influence whether it can "snag" on objects when it arrives in the region
[16:46] Davido Chrome: Ah, it's a lot less complex than the Tama rod.
[16:47] Ardy Lay: WEIGHTS OF SELECTED never loads for Fractal v2.94?
[16:47] Davido Chrome: Yeah. It's some bug specific for the script in the rear tire. It's really wierd...
[16:48] Davido Chrome: There, I removed it.
[16:48] Ardy Lay: Loaded. That is weird.
[16:48] Davido Chrome: Yeah.
[16:52] Andrew Linden: Falcon and I were talking about the likelihood that we would be able to get *neighbor* object collisions across region boundaries
[16:52] Andrew Linden: which is something I've been wanting to work on for a long time
[16:53] Moundsa Mayo: That would be sweet, Andrew!
[16:53] Davido Chrome: Would be nice, would significally lower the risk of ending up in someones bedroom.
[16:53] Andrew Linden: Falcon had some ideas about being able to send all of one neighbor's (non-moving) objects over as a big data delivery
[16:53] Moundsa Mayo: Experimentd with many different methods but never found any push or pull across boundaries.
[16:53] Andrew Linden: that is all speculative at the moment, but maybe 2012 will be the year it gets done
[16:54] Moundsa Mayo: At least Guaca's Bridge helped with ground vehicle crossings, solved the land-collision issue.
[16:54] Moundsa Mayo: But still, two prims at every crossing.
[16:54] Simon Linden: What did that object do?
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: better not tease about when
[16:55] Andrew Linden: Right, colliding with neighbor obejcts would eliminate the need to double up for bridge overlaps
[16:55] Moundsa Mayo: Simon, Guaca Mole showed a technique using two sheared prims, one on each side of the boundary.
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Moundsa Mayo: But shearing over into the other region.
[16:55] Ardy Lay: I use two identicle overlapping objects on foot bridges at region boundaries. One in each region.
[16:55] Moundsa Mayo: Even 0.01 thick prims worked.
[16:55] Davido Chrome: Ah, did it mean you get no texture alignment problems?
[16:56] Moundsa Mayo: We were trying to make trains and road vehicles cross without digging in - just made them invisible.
[16:56] Moundsa Mayo: Worked well.
[16:56] Simon Linden: ah, ok, so he did the difficult work to set up 2 objects so the physics models match
[16:56] Ardy Lay: The idea is to make sure a moving avatar doesn't fall off of a prim before arriving in the next region.
[16:56] Moundsa Mayo: Need to experiment to see if the effect goes any farther now that more than 10m is possible.
[16:57] Ardy Lay: I think I saw that in one of Torley's really old tutorials.
[16:57] Moundsa Mayo: Don't know how he developed it. But simple, though primmy if you have many crossings.
[16:58] Simon Linden does that casual cat thing .. "I really meant to crash like that"
[16:58] Moundsa Mayo: Graceful recovery B^D
[16:58] Davido Chrome: Congrats.
[16:58] Simon Linden: The beta viewer lasts 30 to 60 minutes for me
[16:59] Moundsa Mayo: Ardy, a shame it's not better known, then. Many roads could benefit from it.
[16:59] Ardy Lay: SImon, /LARGEADDRESSAWARE is my favorite linker flag now.
[17:00] Ardy Lay: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2005/06/01/423817.aspx
[17:00] Ardy Lay: It's old and likewise, a shame it's not better known.
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Simon Linden: I'm really trying to stick to server problems these days
[17:00] Simon Linden: But I heard there was a fix for this problem yesterday ... it's a memory leak, I believe
[17:01] Ardy Lay: Heh, use editbin.exe on a prebuilt viewer then.
[17:01] Simon Linden: I prefer to bug the viewer team so they'll fix it :)
[17:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: There are plenty of memory leaks in SL. It still munches too much on VRAM, too.
[17:01] Ardy Lay: Ah, Vir project-3, yes. Big help but the viewer still needs more than it's allocated without that flag.
[17:02] Davido Chrome: Munches? Your scaring me...
[17:02] Moundsa Mayo: k
[17:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody. i g2g
[17:02] Ardy Lay: THere are a lot of places that make the viewer heap-up. ;-)
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: aye
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming.
[17:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Viewer uses a lot more video memory than people think.
[17:03] Simon Linden: I have to go as well ... thanks everyone for coming today
[17:03] Ardy Lay: Bug Island is NOT one of them.
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: take care till next meeting
Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.01.10	Next 2012.01.17