Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 06 20

== List of Speakers ==
Acheron Gloom
Ann Otoole
Demonstrating Cube
flexi campfire
Liisa Runo
Michelle Resistance
Twisted Laws
== Transcript ==
[08:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Da Kellz!
[08:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): ok, the link in the calendar is wrong. I need to log into aditi and let anyone that shows up there to come here.
[08:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): hehehe
[08:59] tehKellz (kelly.linden): looks like charlar just copied from the mesh calendar event, including the url.
[09:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): g'day
[09:01] Michelle Resistance: Hello.
[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning.
[09:01] Twisted Laws: Hello
[09:01] HEAD: 2011-06-20T16:01:54.366855Z MONO DRIFT: 4
[09:01] HEAD: 2011-06-20T16:01:54.373391Z LSL DRIFT: 4
[09:01] FooBar (data.landau): hey
[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hope everyone had a good weekend.
[09:02] Twisted Laws: :)
[09:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yeah, my Brother was in tow for a change
[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): town*
[09:03] Acheron Gloom: Tiring weekend for me. My sleeping schedule is all messed up :<
[09:03] Acheron Gloom: I didn't sleep all night and its 12:02 PM for me now.
[09:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): My sim has been borked all week-end. The sky is falling in little cold and wet pixels...
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): TADA! We be official. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group
[09:03] Acheron Gloom: Yay :3
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): kaluura: what channel is your region on?
[09:03] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Oh your RL region?
[09:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): hah
[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): guess I'm a tad slow on that one.
[09:04] Acheron Gloom: The Florida RC :p
[09:04] Acheron Gloom: (for me at least)
[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Mine's been overheating a bit.
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, as you can see, we have a wiki page and are on the calendar for user groups.
[09:05] Michelle Resistance: \o/
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I havn't ported over the previous transcripts yet, I should get to that this week.
[09:05] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Just looking at that page, does that mean SVC issues in need of moving to SCR should be added to general discussion?
[09:06] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Or even better, would it possible to have the ability to move things into SCR ourselves? =)
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah, there are also a few people here (myself included) that can move issues from SVC to SCR, and I'm willing to accept applications for others that want to be able to do so.
[09:06] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Ah k, I'd like to, I'm sure I have hundreds of my own that still need moving, but I've neglected trawling through them all to check
[09:07] Acheron Gloom: Hey Charlar :)
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm pretty quick to get regulars on the list. Send me an email with your SL name. I'll send you my one or two paragraph explanation about what it really means to have that power.
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hey Charlar! The slurl in the calendar event is wrong. ;) and I can't fix it. :p
[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden): hi all - sorry I'm late
[09:08] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): What is your e-mail now? Still Kelly.Linden@ll?
[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Huuu? I see it correct.
[09:08] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Welcome to the nuthouse Charlie
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Just kelly@
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Oh, maybe its been fixed?
[09:08] Charlie (charlar.linden): Kelly, ack - sorry. Send me the right link and I'll update it.
[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Ambleside (157,91,30)
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The wiki is correct, the calendar has the mesh slurl
[09:09] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Looks good to me.
[09:10] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Haaa! OK... I never look that calendar, only the wiki page.
[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And of course, Welcome Charlie! :)
[09:10] Charlie (charlar.linden): thanks
[09:10] Charlie (charlar.linden): fixing calendar link...
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The other news I have is that Mono2 Upgrade will not be getting promoted this week. We did get an excellent test case though (a 24k script region and a 500+ real-scripts avatar) that helped us make some significant improvements to both arrival and departure.
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Those should go out to Le Tigre this week.
[09:12] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): aww and yay
[09:12] Acheron Gloom claps
[09:12] Michelle Resistance: What's left to do?
[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is pretty amazing the difference between an artifially crafted 1000 script avatar and a *real* 500 script avatar. The 500 script one is significantly worse on the region and on loading.
[09:13] HEAD: 2011-06-20T16:13:25.939491Z MONO DRIFT: 3
[09:13] ANSI (ansi.soderstrom) whispers: ups
[09:13] Michelle Resistance: 500 scripts on an avatar is still ridiculous.
[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Totally!
[09:13] Michelle Resistance: Script-per-prim resizers. -_-
[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah, it is. The bug we had to fix was actually for most avatars over 200 scripts.
[09:14] Acheron Gloom: Tell that to the people with 70 resizers in each shoe, 200 in the hair, and another 30 in each other attachment.
[09:14] Michelle Resistance: Interesting.
[09:14] Acheron Gloom: (about 500 being too much)
[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I've never been over 150 ... except for resize scripts.
[09:14] Michelle Resistance: You can do a single-script resizer per linkset. ¬_¬
[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 200 is not totally unreasonable
[09:14] Michelle Resistance: What could one possiblly need with 200 scripts on an avatar? 0.o
[09:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Michelle that argument ignores legacy content
[09:15] Calcite (calcite.serendipity): Kelly, it sounds like what is in the script is important, not just the total count
[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Calcite: It is.
[09:15] Michelle Resistance: The legacy content is *insane* and the content creators need to fix it.
[09:15] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): I have a HUD with 300+, used for complex GUI and region searching, using remote loading to keep scripts down as needed
[09:15] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): well a Myst tool is 55 all by it's self
[09:15] !< Sofa: Click the seat to change your animation or position.
[09:15] Ann Otoole: i've given away many thousands of one script linkset resizers with self delete. The issue now is old stuff people paid a lot of L$ for and won't stop using it.
[09:16] Michelle Resistance: Yeah, we need to vigorously pressure the content creators of the old stuff.
[09:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): what ann said...
[09:16] Ann Otoole: like 5mb per shoe .. shoes that cost L$2500.
[09:17] Ann Otoole: L$2500 boat anchors now lol
[09:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Unfortunatly I need to go.. my Niece locked her kesy in her car.... sighs...
[09:17] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Would LL fund a cash for clunkers scheme? ^^
[09:17] Michelle Resistance: ^
[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Haravikk heh, that is an interesting idea, but probably not.
[09:17] Michelle Resistance: That's a *great* idea.
[09:18] Michelle Resistance: It wouldn't need to be a huge impact to the L$ supply.
[09:18] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): I think that whenever limits hit though people should switch, as creators will have pressure from customers who feel they should be able to wear other attachments as well as their shoes =)
[09:18] Acheron Gloom: I don't think it will happen.
[09:18] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): So there's some incentive for creators to offer trade-in or discounts to existing customers
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): All right, thats all the updates I have for this week. So on to jira triage! With a new process.
[09:18] Michelle Resistance: :o
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=14052
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Here is a magic jira filter. It is SCR issues that are awaiting review, last triaged > 1year ago or never, sorted by type (bugs first) then votes then created date.
[09:20] Michelle Resistance: Neat.
[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): (The ones that have a last triaged should probably not be awaiting review and I will probably do a pass myself later to clean it up)
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is probably an effect of moving to SCR
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, first up. SCR-42
[09:21] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-42
[#SCR-42] Automatically play media setting ignored plays anyway - PARCEL_MEDIA_COMMAND_PLAY
[09:21] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): i call viewer issue?
[09:22] Michelle Resistance: It sounds like a viewer issue, but I'm not familiar with it.
[09:22] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Sounds like a misunderstanding of what automatically play media does?
[09:22] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): That setting just causes media to start when you enter the parcel, PARCEL_MEDIA_COMMAND_PLAY has never had anything to do with that
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is old and does appear to be a viewer issue.
[09:23] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Makes sense that perhaps it should be ignored if automatically play is turned off, but that's never been the behaviour so I'm not sure this is a bug?
[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'll move it to VWR with a comment to that effect. It might be a 'feature request' more than a bug.
[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): But it does make sense to me that you should be able to opt out of any auto-playing (including script started) media
[09:24] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): I agree, as badly scripted devices can be annoying with that, just never been how it works =)
[09:26] Ann Otoole: it would be nice if a choice to not open ports to unknown servers was respected so we can finally be rid of that drama.
[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is a can of worms I'm gonna avoid at the moment Ann. :)
[09:26] Ann Otoole: aye
[09:26] Michelle Resistance: Yeah, let's move onto actual scripting issues. =p
[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-25
[09:27] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-25
[#SCR-25] All link-related commands spontaniously fail silently til sim reboot ( ReOpened )
[09:27] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[09:27] ANSI (ansi.soderstrom): Hello Object
[09:28] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): just tested it
[09:28] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): couldnt repro it being broken
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): looks like it is kind of rare
[09:29] Michelle Resistance: Heisenbug. :<
[09:29] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Ah, I remember trying this too and couldn't get it to work either
[09:29] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Or rather, not work
[09:30] Acheron Gloom: Theres lots of conflicting reports of it working/not-working on the comments D:
[09:30] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Several of those scripts are however very badly coded (don't actually check that you have permission before breaking the link)
[09:30] Michelle Resistance: Yeah.
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): yeah. Especially since a restart fixes it. It looks worth investigating. I'll acknowledge and add it to the backlog.
[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hrm. Appears I need an 'import to ER' option for SCR.
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Next.
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-27
[09:32] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-27
[#SCR-27] Function: llSetSoundRadius( float radius ); fails to limit sound to radius
[09:32] Michelle Resistance: I didn't even know that function existed. XD
[09:33] Acheron Gloom: It does.
[09:33] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Seems like it could be another one of those old functions whose data is no longer actually stored anywhere
[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): we store the data
[09:33] Michelle Resistance: But it sounds like it could be a viewer problem.
[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is up to the viewer to use the data. We appear to send it correctly.
[09:35] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): yeah doesnt seem to work
[09:35] Acheron Gloom: Is VWR-322 the same way?
[09:35] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-322
[#VWR-322] llCollisionSprite broken in newer releases.
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): no
[09:36] Acheron Gloom: o
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That one is broken on the server
[09:36] Calcite (calcite.serendipity): No, that code is disabled on the server
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): well, completely unimplemented since the partical system was overhauled many, many years ago
[09:36] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): collision sprite is a larger problem, it was turned off on the server when they updated particles to deprecate llmakefire and the lot
[09:36] Acheron Gloom: oh <:3
[09:36] Michelle Resistance: Collision sprites haven't been functional in *ages*
[09:36] Acheron Gloom: We can talk about it later. I think it'd be nice if it was functional... so people don't have to do llParticleSystem on collision
[09:37] Michelle Resistance: That is true.
[09:37] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): i agree
[09:37] Michelle Resistance: It would be awesome if we could make a particle system latent until collision.
[09:37] Michelle Resistance: That'd just be an extra particle system flag.
[09:37] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): but yes i am testing llsetsoundradius and it does not work on Second Life 2.7.4 (233201)
[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden): k, it is moved.
[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-43
[09:38] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-43
[#SCR-43] Listeners in child prims get positioned at root prim position first, then switch to child prim position after re-rez (resulting in wrong listener / whisper radius)
[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Old bug...
[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And it is already linked to an internal open ER issue. I'll acknowledge it.
[09:40] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-22
[09:40] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-22
[#SCR-22] "X-SecondLife-Owner-Name" sometimes set to '(waiting)' instead of ownername
[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The wonders of the people-API and display names.
[09:41] Michelle Resistance: It seems like it was a pain in the ass to implement support for.
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah. We changed to having a central authority on names, and there is a period when the simulator just doesn't know the name until it fetches it.
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I don't think it makes sense to stall the request (and your script?) until the region has the name.
[09:43] Michelle Resistance: It seems like the name should be bundled with the other avatar data.
[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It generally is.
[09:43] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Just need to add a warning in the wiki... Hop! Fixed!
[09:44] Michelle Resistance: { That demonstrating cube is cute. ^_^ }
[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): But http requests can happen with the owner offline
[09:44] Demonstrating Cube: Script reset:moving to searching state
[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think you can prime the script by calling llRequestUsername
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If it is happening when the owner is in the region then we may have a race condition we could address.
[09:46] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Damnit, gonna have to kill my ruddy neighbours; they're stupid router keeps switching to the same wireless channel as mine, just kicked me off =(
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And there is some indication that is the case.
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Oh, that was in 09. I think we fixed that.
[09:46] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): Which issue are we now on?
[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-22
[09:48] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I've added a comment and I'm gonna mark 'needs more info' until I get a response.
[09:49] Michelle Resistance nods.
[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-23 is next
[09:49] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-23
[#SCR-23] Control event not behaving as expected when 2 control scripts exist in the same object(prim) or linkset
[09:50] Michelle Resistance: That's interesting.
[09:51] Acheron Gloom: I've noticed that myself.
[09:51] Acheron Gloom: or at least similar things with control.
[09:51] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[09:52] Dora (dora.gustafson): what is expected if two controls want to take control?
[09:52] Object: Touched.
[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We pass the control flags to all the scripts.
[09:53] Haravikk (haravikk.mistral): The events should be identical, ideally
[09:54] Michelle Resistance: Well, I just thought of something a little crazy...
[09:55] Michelle Resistance: Talarus Luan's comment at the bottom is asking a function where you pass masks for pass and accept...
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That would be a feature suggestion.
[09:55] Liisa Runo: that would be very usefull
[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm going to acknowledge this one. I don't immediately see any reason why it would act weird with multiple scripts though.
[09:56] Michelle Resistance nods.
[09:56] Michelle Resistance: My crazy idea wouldnt' work anyway, nevermind. ^_^;
[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-95 that is next is pretty similar
[09:57] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-95
[#SCR-95] CONTROL_FWD (and others) ignored by control()
[09:58] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): It's the SHIFT key... It blocks almost everything.
[09:58] Michelle Resistance: Yeah, I remember running into this before.
[09:58] Michelle Resistance: It always seemed like a viewer problem to me.
[09:59] HEAD: 2011-06-20T16:59:43.909270Z MONO DRIFT: 3
[09:59] HEAD: 2011-06-20T16:59:43.914504Z LSL DRIFT: 3
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'll acknowledge for investigation. It seems weird and may be a viewer issue.
[10:01] Michelle Resistance: The weird ones seem to be over-represented in this list. =p
[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ok, That is all we have time for today.
[10:02] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): thanks kelly and charlar
[10:02] ANSI (ansi.soderstrom): :)
[10:02] Liisa Runo: triage next week too?
[10:02] ANSI (ansi.soderstrom): thanks for this infos
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Next week will be open discussion, so we can discuss the jira's *you* want to talk about.
[10:03] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Talking about controls... Is it remotely possible to add more keys to test?
[10:03] FooBar (data.landau): ty
[10:03] Liisa Runo: triage every other week?
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kaluura: remotely, maybe, but very very difficult.
[10:03] Acheron Gloom: Well... if I may ask a quick question. D oyou know anything about the llRezObject delay changing perhaps?
[10:03] Acheron Gloom: All my tests show the minimum delay on llRezObject to be 0.133 now instead of 0.1
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah, triage every other week. Details here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Scripting_User_Group
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'll work on getting the transcripts moved over.
[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): (technically I've decided on triage 2 times a month)
[10:04] Calcite (calcite.serendipity): If you are using scripts inside your newly rezzed object to report back perhaps they are taking longer to start up
[10:04] Michelle Resistance nods.
[10:04] Michelle Resistance: Thanks for the hard work. ^_^
[10:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Acheron it may also depend on the server version.
[10:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): See you all next week.
[10:05] Twisted Laws: thanks and have a good day
[10:05] Acheron Gloom: See ya.