Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-03-16

13:07 	Tonya Souther  	Hi, Oz.
  	Yuzuru  	Hello Oz!
  	Office Orb  	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
  	Oz Linden  	Sorry I'm late... got thinking about code and lost track of time
  	Tonya Souther  	We've never done thgat.
13:08 	Oz Linden  	So... item 1 - XMPP Chat
13:09 	  	I mentioned this earlier today... there's a Project Viewer now that does XMPP Group Chat
  	  	and servers up on the aditi grid
  	Seth  	(I'm here to answer questions about that, if you have any)
  	Oz Linden  	meet Seth !
  	Jonathan  	Hi Seth
  	Seth  	Hi!
13:10 	FERRET  	hmm a linden with an axe
  	Jonathan  	Is there a firm decision yet to allow external clients to connect (i.e. pidgin) or is that still subject to change?
  	Oz Linden  	lots of discussisons going on about how to evolve chat
  	  	at the moment it's not only allowed, it's documented
  	Cummere Mayo  	grins at seth...
  	Jonathan  	Yes, I noticed :)
  	Cummere Mayo  	yes seth if you havent heard im a brat :)
  	Jonathan  	I think allowing external clients is a great feature
13:11 	Oz Linden  	I suspect that it will stay allowed, but that's Oz's Guess, not an official LL anything
  	Tonya Souther  	Kadah's coming to ask about XMPP as soon as he logs in.
  	Seth  	There is some unofficial chat between devs and 3rd party viewer folks on chat.aditi.lindenlab.com in the channel "second-life-beta"
13:12 	Jonathan  	As part of the xmpp project will it be possible to mute a group?
  	Oz Linden  	ah... that answers one of _my_ questions!
  	Seth  	jonathan -- I'm not sure yet. There's been a lot of talk about marking groups as auto-join (chat-wise) or not.
  	Jonathan  	heck, I just worked on that svc-nnn issue, maybe it was just for "educational purposes"
  	Seth  	I suspect we'll end up with something like that, but it's not decided yet.
13:13 	Cummere Mayo  	plEASE add chat mute abilities
  	Jonathan  	CUmmere, if they don't I already have done that work, well, about 95%% of it
  	Seth  	btw, that chat group's name may change to second+life+beta, if we switch to url encoding the names
  	Cummere Mayo  	o.O
13:14 	Seth  	it's not hard to do, except that it takes UI work
  	  	which can be quite hard
  	Jonathan  	Seth, I "cheated" and used the mute/block list -- the server supports a Group type field
  	Seth  	ah
13:15 	Jonathan  	svc-2820
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2820
SVC-2820 Allow group IMs to be muted
  	Seth  	we haven't gone through and turned off the extensions we don't want yet, so don't be too surprised if anything fancy that now works doesn't, in the future
  	  	i think vcards etc are still turned on
  	  	we'll disable them at some point
13:16 	FERRET  	that sounds about usual :P
13:17 	  	see 1 of our problems is u tap minefield buttons on your end and we wait for explosions our end
  	Seth  	heh
  	Oz Linden  	I had not gotten around to it yet, but remind me to pester you about getting the libstrophe library up on bitbucket, Seth
  	Seth  	heh okay
13:18 	  	the servers on aditi are very much alpha at this point
  	  	we've opened them up to get feedback sooner
  	Cummere Mayo  	thats appreciated :)
  	Seth  	hopefully we won't trick anybody into depending on something we didn't intend to have turned on
13:19 	Kadah  	Is the XMPP server address being returned by the login server now?
  	Cummere Mayo  	is this also incoperated into the latest mesh viewer or only on its own test viewer?
  	Seth  	kadah -- not yet, but that's the plan. it's pretty guessable, though
  	Oz Linden  	those are separate viewers, Cummere
  	Seth  	yeah we haven't merged mesh code into the xmpp viewer.
13:20 	Oz Linden  	they'll come together in viewer-development (probably not at the same time)
  	Kadah  	Is XMPP being tied with Mesh's relase?
  	Cummere Mayo  	meh oh well... guess ill just have to add another viewer... since v-d isnt working for me I guess ill hae room for it
  	  	*have
  	Seth  	kadah -- we don't know yet. probably not
  	Oz Linden  	viewers are good - there should be lots of them!
13:21 	Tonya Souther  	yay Oz!
  	Kadah  	I'd rather see XMPP separate, get it out asap :>
  	FERRET  	cant we at least have the 64m prims if not the mesh?
  	Cummere Mayo  	speaking of viewers oz... did you see my note about 2.6.1 in the mailing list... ive talked to some other testers with the same issue
  	Oz Linden  	I don't think it's possible to say which will come first at this point
  	  	I have not seen it yet, Cummere
13:22 	  	will look before I wrap up my day
  	Cummere Mayo  	bascially none of the 2.6.1 builds will initialize for us non devs :-/
  	Oz Linden  	notes that the orb is unusually fiesty today....
  	Jonathan  	That sounded like a .dll issue
13:23 	Cummere Mayo  	we think its a mising file or one set with wierd read options but yeah
  	Oz Linden  	I'll upgrade after this meeting is done, but I'm on a mac
  	Cummere Mayo  	it also seems to be windows specific
  	  	xp, vista, and 7 ><
  	Oz Linden  	ah... well....
13:24 	Kadah  	Hows viewer autobuild coming along?
  	Oz Linden  	A good topic....
  	Kadah  	And MSVC100
  	Oz Linden  	I _think_ that we are very very close
  	Lord Noob  	good
  	Kadah  	Sooo like a few months? :P
13:25 	Oz Linden  	Merov cleaned up a bunch of things, and others fixed some more,
  	Jonathan  	I can compile on windows, but with a 50%% longer compile time Kadah
  	Oz Linden  	I'm hoping by early next week, but we've heard that song before
  	Kadah  	Lovely, like 3 hours wasn't long enough :S
13:26 	Oz Linden  	the current "best" repo for that is bitbucket.org/merov_linden/viewer-autobuild2010
  	Kadah  	I will have to check that out later
  	Oz Linden  	we'll be merging autobuild and VS 2010 support together
13:27 	  	that is, both will come to viewer-development as one
  	Cummere Mayo  	sweet
  	Kadah  	Yeah, rather have to learn a whole new system once instead of twice
13:28 	Oz Linden  	Note: once we've done that, anything for earlier versions of VS becomes uninteresting....
  	Lord Noob  	>.>
  	Tonya Souther  	I doubt anyone will complain loudly about that as long as they can use the express version too.
  	Oz Linden  	will probably just go through and close everything I can find related to other windoze compilers
  	Kadah  	2005's intelisense fail really annoys me.
13:29 	  	I'm hoping MS has fixed it in 2010
  	FERRET  	oh i dunno...trying to get 1.23 to compile on vs2010 is becoming quite a challenge
  	Jonathan  	I disabled intellisense--there is a .dll file you can rename
  	Oz Linden  	yes, express will sitll require separate configuration, which is a pain, but should work on some level
13:30 	Tonya Souther  	well, as a Mac geek, I ain't paying for the full VS just to see if I can build on Windows.
  	Kadah  	MSVC's text editor is not every good, the only thing is has going for it is intellisense, otherwise NP++ is 100x better
13:31 	Oz Linden  	Well, hopefully I can get back to work on the build farm soon, and you won't need to, Tonya
  	Tonya Souther  	yay!
  	Kadah  	Ditto :V
13:32 	Oz Linden  	So... one thing I could use some help on with all that is... several of you seem to be using NickyP's repo
13:33 	  	which is fine, but the changesets there introduce large new blocks, so it's hard to figure out what the real point was
  	Kadah  	I haven't even looked at her repo yet
  	Jonathan  	Some switches for msbuild were added plus a -D item
13:34 	Ima Mechanique  	Oz I'm still using your /viewer-autobuild2010 repo
  	Oz Linden  	so... if people can figure out what the key bits are that need tweaking against the merov repo I pointed to, it would really help
  	  	merov forked mine and fixed some things that were wrong with it, so I'm treating his as the best now
13:35 	Ima Mechanique  	okay, I've alraedy cloned it
  	Jonathan  	Oz, I am mostly not here, so ask one of those windows builders to make sure it is documented what needs to be edited in the Cmake directory
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	is there some way to look up the autobuild repo du jour? They seem to be changing on a regulare basis, lately.
  	Kadah  	Oz, your dog just kicked me o.O
  	Oz Linden  	I will probably post a set of builds from it on the test build page
13:36 	Cummere Mayo  	sorry for interrupting but what is serwvdrv.dll supposed to do and where in the secondlife directory is it supposed to be?
  	Oz Linden  	no, realistically I'm afraid not, Boroondas
  	  	any of you Windoze people know?
  	Jonathan  	google it?
  	Oz Linden  	(cummere's question, I mean)
  	Kadah  	Never heard of it before
  	Lord Noob  	why do you call it windoze?
13:37 	FERRET  	cuz it puts u to sleep waiting for stuff
  	Ima Mechanique  	Cummere, is that supposed to have the 'w' in there
  	Oz Linden  	too many years as a unix snob, I guess
  	  	sorry
  	JayR Cela  	I thought it was WinBlows / lol :_)
  	Cummere Mayo  	possibly neil i dunno
  	Ima Mechanique  	cuz every time Oz here's about it it puts him to sleep
13:38 	Cummere Mayo  	but its telling me that it cannot find C:\Program Files\SecondLifeDevelopment\serwvdrv.dll
  	FERRET  	i dont have it neither...open it in a text editor and see wots in it
  	Kadah  	There is no serwvdrv.dll in the 2.5.2 build oz last posted to os-dev
13:39 	FERRET  	or eun it thru a disassembler
  	Ima Mechanique  	cummere, according to google it's a serial wave modem file
  	Cummere Mayo  	i would if i could find the file
  	FERRET  	lol sailup?
  	  	dailup even
13:40 	Ima Mechanique  	no serwvdrv.dll in my 2.6.1 install
13:41 	Kadah  	Sounds suspect to me.
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	as people "surf" the web, I'll go for sailup
  	Oz Linden  	I don't believe we have much need for dtmf tones in the viewer....
  	Kadah  	It does use ports after all.
13:42 	FERRET  	but dtmf tones are such fun on the telco lines if u play them at random
  	Thickbrick Nolastname 	you never know, maybe someone will make a BlueBoxZone
13:43 	Ima Mechanique  	cummere, if you do have that file, it should probably be in your windows/system32 directory
  	Cummere Mayo  	i dont have that on my ssytem far as i can tell
  	Kadah  	Run your viewer exe through depends and see where there that dependacy is coming from
13:45 	Oz Linden  	So.... I don't know anything about the issues you added on the agenda, Cummere, sorry
  	Kadah  	Whats after 2.5.2?
  	Oz Linden  	2.6.0
13:46 	  	plan is to post the beta for it tomorrow
  	  	it's on the Snowstorm wiki page
  	Kadah  	Oh good. Will there be a notice on os-dev as well when thats up?
  	Cummere Mayo  	well with the last few 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 builds those are things i noticed for me oz..
  	Kadah  	will forget
  	Lord Noob  	think 2.6 will be ready for release in a week or to?
13:47 	Oz Linden  	I'll put a note on osdev, and there will be a blog post
  	  	the plan is one week
  	Thickbrick Nolastname 	2.6 just had a huge code drop, so probably a week is being *very* optimistic.
  	Kadah  	Any think big coming in 2.6?
  	  	Is estate windlight ever coming?
  	Oz Linden  	we're going to try to do a faster release cycle for a while ... something new every week
13:48 	  	Estate windlight is getting attention...
  	Kadah  	Its been months though :<
  	  	Years if you want to count when it was originally planned
  	Oz Linden  	yes, well....
13:49 	Thickbrick Nolastname 	Estate windlight is done by snowstorm, or some other team?
  	Oz Linden  	we're doing it, but not so much because anyone told us to so much as we want to get it done
13:50 	Kadah  	Do you know if it will bring the abality to make custom day cycle presets in the viewer?
  	Oz Linden  	the heavy lifting is finished, though
  	Kadah  	That bit was never finished
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it will
  	Kadah  	Cool
13:51 	Oz Linden  	I'm planning to have some fun with it here :-)
  	Lord Noob  	:)
  	Thickbrick Nolastname 	suggests whoever implements persistant windlight should talk to the community. There has been several 3rd party implementations of that, and probably there's stuff to be learned from those (both in what to do, and what not to do.)
  	Kadah  	Are there any plans yet on supporting WL preset as assets?
  	Oz Linden  	not as part of what we're doing now, no
  	Kadah  	Darn.
13:52 	  	NC work, but its hacky
13:53 	Oz Linden  	my understanding is that would require some backend work
  	  	just getting the windlight functionality to work doesn't (everything we need for that is done)
  	Kadah  	What I was doing was using notecards to store LLSD with an file extension at the end of their names
13:54 	  	And just parsing the name and changing the default actions
  	Thickbrick Nolastname 	Kadah, same as Katharine's wl notecards?
  	Oz Linden  	one can hope that we will someday be able to improve on that
13:55 	Tonya Souther  	that'd be nice, Oz...
  	Kadah  	Just a new asset type thats type of nc could work, but I'll leave it to you guys :P
13:56 	Oz Linden  	The impression I have gotten is that the "just" in that sentence is where the problem comes in ....
  	Tonya Souther  	It's a SMOP. :3
13:57 	Kadah  	True, I'm sure there's a more clever way, like maybe a true LLSD storage asset class
  	Tonya Souther  	and for exrta goodness, how about letting scripts emit them, hmmmm? :3
  	Oz Linden  	Well, I figure if we can get the viewer supporting setting and displaying them, there will be motivation for building something to exchange them
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	If ever new asset types are to be introduced, we should consider Aleric's proposal of generic assets, so that new types can be define purely viewer-side without requiring further serverside changes.
13:58 	Oz Linden  	purely viewer side assets are an interop nightmare... don't hold your breath
  	Kadah  	Yeah, it would be wonderful if LSL could control the WL stuff in the future
13:59 	Oz Linden  	SL is all about a shared experience - allowing viewers to do things that others can't experience breaks that pretty badly
  	FERRET  	sounds emerald :P
  	Kadah  	If you do it in v-d, I'll pull it :3
14:00 	Office Orb  	Your timer has expired!
  	Oz Linden  	that's the idea...
  	  	I've got to go prep for a meeting on merging autobuild2010, so ....
  	Tonya Souther  	yay.
  	Lord Noob  	good luck :)
  	Kadah  	Yay, more autobuild
  	Oz Linden  	even though I was a bit late starting, we're going to stop on time
  	Kadah  	Have fun Oz
  	Jonathan  	Thank you Seth & Oz
  	Tonya Souther  	I hope you're finding some time somewhere to sling code, Oz...
  	Lord Noob  	and thx for your time
14:01 	Oz Linden  	not nearly as much as I'd like,, Tonya
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Yeah, of course it wouldn't make much sense for a single viewer to introduce a new asset type based on the generic asset type. There would have to be agreement between different viewers. But the server side would be abstracted out of the equation.
  	Lord Noob  	thank you seth for your imput also
  	Jonathan  	oz, where do we find the UG logs now?
  	  	There are none on your wiki page for this month
  	Office Orb  	End transcription
  	Kadah  	gives Seth a cookie
  	Lord Noob  	lol kadah
  	FERRET  	cookie?
  	Oz Linden  	I'll check, Jonathan....