Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-12-08

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on December 08th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Welcome to the Server Beta User Group
=== Updates ===
* The releases went well this week.
* NCW windows.
* Second Life RC KT
* "Second Life Server Channel"
** People API updates from Magnum
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.11.12.245070
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This project contains voice diagnostics updated to improve our ability to diagnose voice issues.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.12.01.246038
* LeTigre RC Channel
* Bug Fixes
** llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms 
** Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages 
** Physics stalls every 20-30 seconds 
** ERROR: Failed to set physics shape type
** llSetLinkMedia do nothing 
** Bug in Control Event
** 	Temp on Rezzed objects get queued 
** 	Driving a vehicle over into a full region gives strange error message: You can't enter this region because the sebehavior is full 
** 	For group notices groupID is being sent in the AgentID field 
** 	llMinEventDelay Bug 
** 	Simulator fails to load notecard asset (Intan won't read config card)
** Avatars that do not have access to Adult regions will no longer see avatars on those regions from neighboring regions.
** Several simulator crash fixes.
** Several minor simulator memory leaks fixed.
** 	Poseball rezzing items are either not giving poseballs or rezzing balls in wrong positions
* New features
** New LSL function: key llTransferLindenDollars(key id, integer amount)
**: Attempt to transfer amount of L$ from the owner of the object to 'id'. Requires PERMISSION_DEBIT. Returns a key used in a matching transaction_result event for the success or failure of the transfer.
** New LSL event: transaction_result(key id, integer success, string data)
**: This event is triggered from an llTransfer* call (currently only llTransferLindenDollars). 
*** id: matches the return value of the llTransfer call and if the transaction was a success will match the 'transaction id' shown in transaction history on secondlife.com
*** success: TRUE if the transfer succeeded otherwise FALSE.
*** data: On successful transactions will contain a CSV of destination ID and amount transferred. In failure cases it will contain an error tag on failure.
** Error Tags for llTransferLindenDollars:
*** LINDENDOLLAR_ENTITYDOESNOTEXIST - The destination UUID is not a valid agent.
*** LINDENDOLLAR_INSUFFICIENTFUNDS - The source agent does not have enough L$ for the transfer
*** INVALID_AGENT - Destination agent is not a valid UUID
*** INVALID_AMOUNT - Amount is <= 0
*** THROTTLED - The scripted L$ throttle was hit for this object owner.
*** MISSING_PERMISSION_DEBIT - The script does not have debit permission
*** GROUP_OWNED - The object is group owned and thus can't give money
*** TRANSFERS_DISABLED - L$ transfers are disabled in the region
*** EXPIRED - The simulator timed out waiting for a response from the back-end service.
*** SERVICE_ERROR - There was an error connecting to the back-end service
** New LSL function: llGetParcelMusicURL()
*** Returns the music URL of the object's current parcel if the script owner also owns the parcel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.12.02.246118
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is the same code that is on LeTigre right now.
* More exposure is good.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.12.02.246118
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for December 08th, 2011:
* [15:00] WolfPup Lowenhar: hey all
* [15:00] Rickk Turbo: lo
* [15:00] arton Rotaru: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lOb799cTxM
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: hello everyone!
* [15:00] Coyot Linden: hiya
* [15:00] Rickk Turbo: funny how sl can be a small world sometimes
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: yeah, just a few colos. ;)
* [15:01] Rickk TurboRickk Turbo bumped into pathfinder today :)
* [15:01] arton Rotaru: SL is a village
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: It takes a village...
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: to watch our servers.
* [15:01] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:01] Oskar LindenOskar Linden hums it's a small grid after all
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [15:02] arton Rotaru: hi Rex
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: hi arton
* [15:02] arton Rotaru: take a seat, get comfortable
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: so I need to thank Coyot
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: for reminding me about this meeting at 2:58PM
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: haha
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: because I was a space cake today
* [15:03] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: just happily working away
* [15:03] Nalates Urriah: what flavor?
* [15:03] arton Rotaru: happens sometimes
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: mocha
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: :)
* [15:03] Nalates Urriah: Nice
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: just derping through my day
* [15:03] Rickk Turbo: u had your caffinee boost yet?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I did have my caffeine as well
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: my ave has no problem standing. just need to lock some screws:)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: so I do not have an updated agenda
* [15:04] arton Rotaru: oh ok :)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I will let Coyot entertain you while I update it
* [15:04] Homeless: you'll have to make it up as you go along....
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: Coyot tell us about your week
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: So, I flew to London
* [15:05] Rickk Turbo: shopping?
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: to look at the ExCeL convention centre for a conference
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: coming up in 2014
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: not related to SL
* [15:05] arton Rotaru: well, you are really ride on time ^^
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: (worldcon ... the world sf convention in 2014
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: and hung out with some friends
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: Then some of us took the Eurostar to Brussels and the train to Amsterdam
* [15:06] arton Rotaru: ^^
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: for a three day conference on how to run conferences
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: I kid you not
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: I then had a day to myself in Amsterdam
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: and then flew home
* [15:06] arton Rotaru: nice trip
* [15:07] Rickk Turbo: k
* [15:07] Pauline Darkfury: presumably you did the conference for how to attend conference planning conferences last week? ;)
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: The train trip was *great*
* [15:07] Moundsa Mayo: TRAINS!
* [15:07] Rex Cronon: now u can run conferences in sl with confidence;)
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: actually, Pauline, I ran last year's conference in San Jose
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: this was someone else's turn
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: www.smofcon.org
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: for the conference
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: but more interesting is
* [15:07] Moundsa Mayo: SECRET MASTERS!
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: www.worldcon.org for the worldcon
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: yep
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: that's us
* [15:08] Moundsa Mayo: Already signed up for ChiCon
* [15:08] Pauline Darkfury: cool
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: we're so secret we have a public website
* [15:08] Moundsa Mayo: B^D
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: really, Moundsa? Ossm
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: I'm helping Chicon as a facilities liaison
* [15:08] Moundsa Mayo: Oh yah. Hoping to get the Chaos Machine there.
* [15:09] Moundsa Mayo: Oh rilly!
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: sweet
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: ok the agenda has been updated! https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: I'm hoping to get former Linden
* [15:09] Vincent Nacon: who?
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: Devin Linden's fire troop there
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: www.pyrotechniq.cojm
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: err, com
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Devin is awesome
* [15:09] Moundsa Mayo: Ohhh, yesss!
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: I miss him
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: try to aim better
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: :P
* [15:10] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:10] Vincent Nacon: site doesn't exist, even I fixed the .com
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: ahh the ol .cojm TLD
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: http://www.pyrotechniq.org/
* [15:10] Vincent Nacon: oh
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: ^^^
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: sorry, doing that from memory
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: so... agenda
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:11] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden stops vamping
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: Coyot can you describe the NCW for this month
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: sure
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: * Week of Dec 19
 * Week of Dec 26
* [15:11] Nalates Urriah: RC KT metrics?
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: there should be no deploys those weeks
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: except in emergencies
* [15:12] arton Rotaru: how are chances we get LeTigre next week promoted to the main channel?
* [15:12] Coyot Linden: this is all deploys, web and server
* [15:12] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, waiting until the new year for stuff like llMinEventDelay would be kinda annoying
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: chances are looking good for LT next week right Coyot?
* [15:12] Kelly Linden: It was awfully buggy last week arton. How is it looking so far this week?
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: waiting for month for other fixes in it too
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: noted, but we have to consider stability over features
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: haven't seen any bug reports
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: it isn't just bug reports
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: was there yesterday and it work ok for me as well
* [15:13] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, stability is pretty much #1, last week's certainly was not ready
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: I look at crash rates
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: and other metrics
* [15:14] Kelly Linden: I think he was just responding to my asking him how it looked (to him)
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: just asking how chaneces are
* [15:14] Pauline Darkfury: But not just stability, there's product-breaking bug fixes in there which are now rather overdue
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: yep kelly
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: the RC KT metrics are a bit hard to determine
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: afk
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: things look fine from our end
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: In any case, as a general practice, I'd rather not give odds
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: but we're getting lots of reports
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: what are your experiences on RC KT?
* [15:15] Homeless: Yeah, leave the odds making to Mr. Spock
* [15:15] Pauline Darkfury: My sandbox region seems to have been good on KT so far, but it's only a day or so into being on it
* [15:15] Pauline Darkfury: And my office region has been on KT for a week or so (maybe 2, can't remember), without anything driving me nuts
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: that's good
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: that's good to hear that
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: filtering out the noise is hard in situations like this
* [15:16] Pauline Darkfury whispers: Have had random slow rez at times, but there's generally been others talking about it as more of a grid-wide thing (i.e. asset servers or network)
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: any other experiences with RC KT?
* [15:17] Nalates Urriah: Is there a sandbox in the RC KT?
* [15:17] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden has a related question to ask, if you don't mind, Oskar
* [15:17] Pauline Darkfury: Oh, one thing I can report for certain on it is there's no major regression for SVC-5040 which the October kernel fixed for C7s
* [15:17] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5040] Script performance dropped on regions deployed on class 7 hardware since rolling restart (12 nov 2009) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040
* [15:18] Pauline Darkfury: I.e. Both the October kernel and the new KT seem to perform well with 6000 scripts on a C7
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: that's good to hear
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: please do coyot
* [15:18] arton Rotaru: there are KT sandboxes Nal
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: Does anyone here rely on the channel name provided by LSL?
* [15:19] arton Rotaru: Maestro listed a few on the forums
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: and if so, for what?
* [15:19] Pauline Darkfury: I report the channel in various ways
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: but actually rely on it
* [15:19] Moundsa Mayo: Hmm. Have used ServerName to detect grid, but no recollection of using Channel Name. Would be excellent for automated testing uses, though.
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: you take the LSL info and use it for reporting right?
* [15:19] Pauline Darkfury: Don't care if the content changes, as long as it doesn't become absurdly long or something like that, and as long as it's meaningful
* [15:19] Maestro Linden: ^ regarding coyot's quesiton, both llGetEnv() or llHTTPRequest's headers can show you the channel name
* [15:20] Vincent Nacon: I believe he's asking because he might need to change something without risk of breaking contents?
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: or stop altogether
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: if that info was no longer available
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: what would happen?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: like channel and version inaccessible from vwr or lsl
* [15:20] Vincent Nacon: well long as it would have some kind of fail reporting
* [15:20] Pauline Darkfury: That would be rather annoying from the point of view of keeping track of servers
* [15:21] Moundsa Mayo: I'm a data glutton and will always swallow longer names and strings rather than lose anything at all, ever. But that's my dysfunction, prolly not a general one.
* [15:21] Pauline Darkfury: If it was missing from both VWR and LSL, forget getting meaningful testing of RCs, tbh
* [15:21] Vincent Nacon: like NULL or debug report
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: Unknown Server 1.2.3.4
* [15:21] Moundsa Mayo: B^D
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: hmm, okay, thanks
* [15:22] Moundsa Mayo: What, we're on a Server 1.2.3.4?
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: I think I have the sense of it
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: it was just something we were tossing around
* [15:22] Vincent Nacon: I wouldn't care much for it, long as it still can report the normal default channel
* [15:23] Vincent Nacon: so I could have my future cars warn users from using it in a non-supported channel
* [15:23] Pauline Darkfury: it's already hard enough to keep track of what's broken where, I'd consider not being able to easily tell which channel a region is on a showstopper, pretty much
* [15:24] Vincent Nacon: long as it can tell what stable released channel you're in
* [15:24] Jonathan Yap: Your channel could be LL, TPV, or Unknown
* [15:24] Pauline Darkfury: There have also been cases of product breakage making it to main channel, and LL advice has been for people to go to a specific channel to workaround the breakage
* [15:24] Coyot Linden: Pauline, why isn't region and date/time sufficient?
* [15:24] Coyot Linden: for reporting?
* [15:24] Vincent Nacon: need objec'ts info?
* [15:25] Vincent Nacon: object's*
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: i consider those of you in this meeting to be a very special case and not representative of the SL population at large.
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: in general the view of RC channels is highly negative
* [15:25] Pauline Darkfury: Well it doesn't tell me which release notes to look at, to find which features have changed and possibly narrow down the report to a specific area
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: and we've been discussing ways to redice the negative view of server releases
* [15:25] arton Rotaru: we are just the tip of the ice
* [15:25] Vincent Nacon: why not both, Oskar?
* [15:25] Vincent Nacon: :P
* [15:25] Pauline Darkfury: And, you can basically forget people testing new features if they can't find regions with the features
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: you guys are the cutting edge
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: Pauline: yep, I get that
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: I'm with you on that Pauline
* [15:26] Moundsa Mayo: More rational or less? B^DD
* [15:26] Jonathan Yap: Instead of blanking the channel you could disguise it behind generic names, Channel 1, Channel 2, etc and only you would know which one was which
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: I've already said that in a thread
* [15:26] Vincent Nacon: then hire us! muhaha!
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: even
* [15:26] Pauline Darkfury: The channels absolutely need to be transparent to all support personnel
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: we have some more ideas we're still working on thinking about
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: right
* [15:26] Pauline Darkfury: Support personnell are not all employed or contracted to LL. I provide customer support for LL's products
* [15:26] Rex Cronon: back
* [15:27] Coyot Linden: Sorry, I didn't want to completely derail things. Please carry on, Oskar
* [15:28] Pauline Darkfury: And, in terms of objection to hiding the channel. Please count my objection as being on behalf of a 250+ region Atlas estate. I'll be glad to get the EO to formally object if you need that.
* [15:28] Lares Carter: I don't think that hiding the server channel would help a lot with improving the reputation of release channels. It should stay transparent.
* [15:28] Rex Cronon: do u want to hid3 the channel for security reasons?
* [15:28] Coyot Linden: no
* [15:29] Rickk Turbo: it's shown in the Help, About
* [15:29] Rickk Turbo: why hide it?
* [15:29] Jonathan Yap: Rex, I think people don't like to be on "Experimental" channels
* [15:29] Vincent Nacon: wondering if there's an estimate when Falcon's KeyFramedMotion be on release... sorry to beat a dead horse with that question.
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: part of the idea is removing erroneous reports that are only given to us because the channel is an RC
* [15:29] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, there's a fairly large collection of folks that are allergic to owning land on a RC channel
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: the RC KT reports are almost useless because they are just anger and frustration
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: the code is the same
* [15:30] arton Rotaru: isn't KFM gridwide already?
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: u can give each ch a hex value and a page that has a name associated with each hex value:)
* [15:30] arton Rotaru: I did it on my sim last week, it's on main channel
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: KFM has been out on the whole grid since Nov 15: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.11.09.244706_2
* [15:30] Vincent Nacon: ahh I've been missing out a week or two
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: or, maybe the 16th, since we rolled the RCs a day later
* [15:30] Nalates Urriah: The problem is they have the idea they are experiements, which in a way they are, rather than fix testing channels. People use the term 'experiement' to mean something not the case.
* [15:31] Pauline Darkfury: Myself, I'm happy to let random regions across the estate end up on RC, as long as 1) we can get them moved to another channel PDQ if there's a problem, and 2) we can easily see if the issue might be channel specific. Without both of those, I can't argue in good faith for allowing some RC regions to exist on the estate.
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: if u give incentives for being on such achannel...
* [15:31] Homeless: hmmm I tend to consider SL itself to be a bit "experimental"
* [15:32] Rex Cronon: like extra prim per sim:)
* [15:32] arton Rotaru: drop tier^^
* [15:32] Rex Cronon: faster linden response in case of problems...
* [15:33] Nalates Urriah: More prims might be an intersting incentive
* [15:33] Pauline Darkfury: I'd also suggest asking the same question in Concierge Info Group on main grid, I'd predict 99% negative reaction there, to not being able to determine channel
* [15:33] Jonathan Yap: More prims would give slower performance, and thus more complaints
* [15:33] Nalates Urriah: Would say 1,000 more prims really make that much difference?
* [15:33] arton Rotaru: yeah
* [15:34] Rex Cronon: it needs to be something people want but that doesn't cost ll extra money
* [15:34] Homeless: and when the more prims got revoked.... content go poof!
* [15:34] Leonel Iceghost: oskar do you have RC sims in the new game sims? if you don't why? don't you think other people may want the same than those sims?
* [15:34] arton Rotaru: 15000 is to many already
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: how many of you have messed with the llTransferLindenDollars stuff?
* [15:34] arton Rotaru: if it's just prims
* [15:34] Vincent Nacon: 1k more prims? ahh trying to bring bitwise numbers?
* [15:35] Homeless: maybe game sims would be the perfect place for RC's?
* [15:35] Jonathan Yap: Now if you had them on a simhost that was only at 75% of capacity, that might be a better incentive
* [15:35] Rex Cronon: for some reason messing with that function sounds dangerous
* [15:35] Vincent Nacon: yup
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: please mess with it!
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: the game regions are in their own RC
* [15:35] Vincent Nacon: but maybe a 512x512m sim?
* [15:35] Rex Cronon: can we have insurance:)
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: already
* [15:35] Vincent Nacon: without sim crossing
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: just not part of the regular flow
* [15:35] Homeless: too busy playing Linden Realms lol :D
* [15:35] Pauline Darkfury: I believe Casper has looked at it Oskar, for CasperVend, CasperLet. Pretty sure he mentioned it
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: we put the maint-server code that is on LeTigre on Magnum as well
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: to get it some increased exposure
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: I stopped playing because my hud was "attached" but not showing several times
* [15:36] Rex Cronon: u realease the realsm and want people to test lsl? is like asking a skyrim player to read a book;)
* [15:36] Vincent Nacon: 512m sq sim = 60k prims
* [15:36] Homeless: It fades in and out for me also... it's got bugs
* [15:37] arton Rotaru: giving free L$ to newbies from LL is a great thing though
* [15:37] Coyot Linden: Yeah, DAO players can actually read. ;)
* [15:37] arton Rotaru: keeps noobs in the game
* [15:38] arton Rotaru: camping was great when I joined in 2007
* [15:38] Homeless: they need something to do at first
* [15:38] Vincent Nacon: unlike the payment from 5 years ago
* [15:38] Rex Cronon: not that many will read when they can play:)
* [15:39] Rex Cronon: u can give badges to new players
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: we had an another idea today
* [15:39] Homeless: my impression of the game - it's like playing "Pac-man" in 3d
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: wanted to run it by you guys
* [15:39] Vincent Nacon: shoot
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: I was thinking of putting the RC sandboxes here on ADITI as well
* [15:39] Nalates Urriah: ideas... yum
* [15:39] Rickk Turbo: yeh
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: then putting the code up there on Friday by EOD
* [15:39] Rex Cronon: sure
* [15:39] Vincent Nacon: eh... aren't there some?
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: the new RC code
* [15:39] Rickk Turbo: that would be nice
* [15:39] arton Rotaru: good idea
* [15:39] Vincent Nacon: oh
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: before it hits agni
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: as a precursor to what would come next wednesday
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: That sounds like a rather good idea
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: with the newly merged code
* [15:40] Nalates Urriah: That actually sounds awesome
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: oskar, I suppose we'd want to update the public release notes by then as well? though we might not have the final version #
* [15:40] arton Rotaru: should have been the case from day one imho
* [15:40] Vincent Nacon: good idea but I still got a lot of stuff to test with on my agni inventory
* [15:40] Homeless: sounds like a good idea to me also, now I have no idea which regions have what deployed here in aditi
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Yes, update the release notes as best you can in advance if you go with that
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: so for example tomorrow morning we look at LeTigre and decide to promote the code. then the devs take that code and merge it into their projects and we put it on those regions here on ADITI as the earliest look at the actual binaries being released next week
* [15:40] Vincent Nacon: updating my password and waiting 24 hours is kinda annoying
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Doesn't matter if they get amended later, as long as it's clear which is current, which is pre-release
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: updating release notes ahead of time gets hard because we do so many last minute changes :-p
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: but I'll see what I can do
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: maybe have a beta release notes spot
* [15:41] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, they don't have to be perfect, just helps if folks have half an idea of what has changed
* [15:41] Vincent Nacon: yeah
* [15:41] Rex Cronon: aren't there more grids? why not have grid only for rc?
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: I want the release notes links we have now to show what is actually deployed to agni
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: the other grids are not feature complete
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: just update every friday the aditi regions, people will know about in a couple of weeks
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: usually single machines
* [15:42] Pauline Darkfury: folks who know about Aditi should be capable of finding a pre-release page that's separate, if that's the better way of doing it
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: yeah
* [15:42] Coyot Linden: Yeah, I'd rather encourage aditi use
* [15:43] Coyot Linden: than create an RC grid
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: yeah
* [15:43] Nalates Urriah: Make a new ADITI releasnotes pages for the prelim stuff. Hopefully you'll be able to copy paste it to the AGNI pages.
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: ok. I'll start setting up what that will take and look like
* [15:43] Pauline Darkfury: Aditi is the right place for it, as long as we can find the correct regions easily
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I might not get it set up before tomorrow
* [15:43] WolfPup Lowenhar: i thought Aditi was an RC grid :p
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: that's been the hardest problem. getting people to the right places on aditi
* [15:43] Vincent Nacon: Beta != RC
* [15:43] Rex Cronon: how many sims r here?
* [15:43] Coyot Linden: Dammit, Oskar, I want it done by the end of office hours. :P
* [15:43] Jonathan Yap: It would be nice to have some easy way to see what regions are grouped together in a RC channel
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: at any given time we have like 20 diff projects on aditi at the same time
* [15:44] Rickk Turbo: i counted about 50
* [15:44] Rickk Turbo: :)
* [15:44] Pauline Darkfury: Maybe a noticeboard or 2 here (in-world, on Morris) telling people what's where?
* [15:44] Jonathan Yap: Have different ground textures that are distinctive?
* [15:44] Vincent Nacon: yeah
* [15:44] Pauline Darkfury: Have a NC giver in the corner of this area, where people can grab a NC describing this week's stuff on Aditi
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: Office hours end midnight at the International Dateliine
* [15:44] Rex Cronon: have sim act as a directory. from that sim people can chose whre to go to
* [15:44] Homeless: How about having a testing landing point with info about what's where?
* [15:44] Rickk Turbo: or put it in the motd?
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: all those things require extra manual updating
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: and I know now that it will fall behind
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it's a lot of extra overhead
* [15:45] Jonathan Yap: Oskay, you are thinking of having more than 1 region/RC ?
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: not sure about that oskar
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: well, the MOTD could point to whatever wiki page has the RC release notes
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: 4 regions
* [15:45] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, need one prim that cycles through the regions an grabs channel, reports to Directory at Aditi:Home, wherever that is
* [15:45] Pauline Darkfury: well, the info has to be documented somewhere, copy+paste into a NC once every few days shouldn't be too much effort?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it will be documented in the wiki
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: u need a central hug. like hq
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it's just one more step
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: hub*
* [15:46] Nalates Urriah: How do you Lindens keep track of where things are?
* [15:46] Jonathan Yap: You could block them together as mini-islands and have a large note prim saying what channel they are
* [15:46] Moundsa Mayo: Which would be one case why we'd want access to ChannelName in LSL.
* [15:46] Pauline Darkfury: central hug sounds more fun ;)
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: :)
* [15:46] Moundsa Mayo: BIG HUG!!
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: not to say one of you fine folks can't take what I put in the wiki and make a NC giver :-)
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: heh well, you could have a giant cube with prim media that shows the wiki, and refreshes itself once every so often :P
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: or people could have a browser open
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: :-p
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: Moundsa, we have that with llGetEnv()
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetEnv
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: step 1 is getting the regions up and ready for new code
* [15:47] Moundsa Mayo: OK, so send out a probe that grabs channel no and reports back to a Directory.
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: step 2 communicating it properly
* [15:47] Moundsa Mayo: [channel name]
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: I'm at step 0 now
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: just put blue stargates to normal sims and red to rc
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: good starting point though, Oskar^^
* [15:48] Rex Cronon: once people step through the red one they boldly go where no man has gone before;)
* [15:48] Rickk Turbo: llOwnerSay("Server Version",llGetEnv("sim_channel") + " " + llGetEnv("sim_version"));
* [15:48] Jonathan Yap: hmmm, you might want 1 of the 4 regions placed in the grid by itself with the other 3 touching
* [15:48] arton Rotaru: live long and prosper
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: Jonathan have you been tot he RC sandboxes on AGNI?
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: the setup will be the same
* [15:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: i say have a central regional map tp system that gets reported to from a prim in a given region that says whet server code it is on
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: No Oskar, I usually am too busy working on viewer changes
* [15:49] WolfPup Lowenhar: you could even have that prim be the landing point for that region
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: the setup currently does not have the individual RC's touching each other
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: it is individual 4 region islands per channel
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: I think it is sufficient for most testing
* [15:50] Jonathan Yap: I was thinking that for testing region crossings you might want some touching
* [15:51] Pauline Darkfury: One thought on it, possibly include main channel as well. So that folks over here can quickly compare and conrast with the RCs?
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: true
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: I need to do that on AGNI as well
* [15:51] Oskar LindenOskar Linden adds all that to "The List"
* [15:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: yes and mabey even haveall the rc chanles touching
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: LL should hire a mate for you Oskar
* [15:52] Jonathan Yap: Those sandbox regions must be near a fault line if they suddenly "split" apart
* [15:52] Rickk Turbo: another problem is the 3 different sanboxes can't touch each other at the same time
* [15:53] Rickk Turbo: only 2 of each
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: it's tricky setting up region crossing testing to hit each permutation
* [15:54] Pauline Darkfury: well, if you are proposing 2x2s of each RC, A touches B, north-south, C sits on either east or west touching both
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: imho, it would be enough to have to regions of the same channel connected
* [15:55] Coyot Linden: pity we don't have a hexagonal grid
* [15:55] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: in the end, it's the main channel what should work
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: two regions*
* [15:55] Jonathan Yap: Or allow for wrap-around, where if you kept going north you end up at a southern point
* [15:56] Pauline Darkfury: Mmm, or main in the middle, RCs on NSEW of main, that gives main to/from each RC
* [15:56] Rex Cronon: how about a triangular sim:)
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: ok ok
* [15:56] Homeless: how about stackable sims... one on top of another :P
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: alright well that's about it for this week
* [15:57] Coyot Linden: You know, if we design the sims in the shape of a Klein bottle...
* [15:57] Jonathan Yap: Coyot, thank you for making us part of the channel name reporting issue
* [15:58] Nalates Urriah: unwrapt that UV map
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: yw
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: we like to get your opinions on upcoming changes
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: and do the opposite :p
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: just joking ^^
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: haha
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: :p
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: alright everyone
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: thanks for stopping by today
* [16:00] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks for your time and work, Oskar, Maestro, Kelly, and Coyot!
* [16:00] arton Rotaru: okidoki, I'm back to blendering. cya next week
* [16:00] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day
* [16:00] Nalates Urriah: Thx Oskar and posse
* [16:00] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Lindens :)
* [16:00] Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting.
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: Oskar haz a posse!
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [16:01] Maestro Linden: thakns for coming everybody!
* [16:01] Vincent Nacon: later all
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: yw, bye all