Viewer Evolution User Group/Archive/2011-06-03

08:01 	Wolfpup  	hey Oz
08:02 	Oz Linden  	Hi everyone !
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	good morning
  	draconis.neurocam  	hello oz
  	Ashiri Sands  	Hi
  	Oz Linden  	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_Evolution_User_Group
08:03 	  	So... let's jump right in.... HEADLINE ITEM: We're releasing a very early version Project Viewer for Windlight Region Settings _today_
  	draconis.neurocam  	wow
08:04 	Ann Otoole  	(i hope it doesn't have the crash on startup thing too)
  	Oz Linden  	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight_Region_Settings_Project_ViewerThere's a wiki page on it now, which has the documentation, including caveats about what is known not to work:
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	excellent!
08:05 	Oz Linden  	The only thing that page is missing right this minute is the links to the viewer :-(
  	Jonathan  	it is compiling now?
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	i see links - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight_Region_Settings_Project_Viewer
08:06 	  	nvm, links have bogus addresses hehe
  	Oz Linden  	There are a couple things that I need to confirm have been done in the viewer version manager before I post the links
  	Jonathan  	yeah, to example.com/TBD
  	Oz Linden  	No... the viewer is built (I'm running it now)
  	  	yeah... tricky, huh ? :-)
08:07 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	Oz, what about the folks who were going to be making some presets?
  	  	you had mentioned before that the project viewer would be read-only
  	Oz Linden  	There are some included, including a couple by Torley
08:08 	Jonathan  	We know what colors torley likes :)
  	Haravikk  	Watermelon land =)
  	Oz Linden  	In this version, you can edit day cycles that use the pre-defined sky presets, but you can't create new sky or water presets yet
  	  	Actually, for Torley, it's pretty restrained
08:09 	Jonathan  	So a region owner will be able to save one of these presets to her region for all to see?
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	sorry I'm late but I couldn't use the web slurl to get to here with the current snowstorm daily... not tested thoroughly but relogged to regular release
  	Oz Linden  	yes, but you'll have to be running this viewer to see them
  	Marianne McCann  	(Sorry Im late, too)
  	  	Will you be able to set a day cycle at all, or just a single preset?
08:10 	Oz Linden  	A full day cycle - up to 20 changes
  	  	or a fixed sky
  	Marianne McCann  	Excellent
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	can't wait
08:11 	Jonathan  	Is this viewer based on a fairly recent version of v-d?
  	Oz Linden  	There is a "Windlight Region Testers" group that I'd like people to join if they are testing it
  	  	it's open, so I think you should be able to find and join it
  	  	or I can send invites if that is easier
  	  	It's a very very recent version
08:12 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	yep, it's open
  	Eddi  	i,m interested :)
  	Oz Linden  	pretty close to the beta that will be out today
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	and nice, just realized the latest dev build has the new search
  	Marianne McCann  	will join up
  	Oz Linden  	Yes, it does, as does that new beta (2.7.1)
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	ok, so if I'm play with this, my residents won't see anything different unless they volunteer to use the client too, right?
08:13 	Oz Linden  	correct, Charlene
  	Ann Otoole  	so is this test for region owners/estate managers only or are non managers needed for testing regions?
  	Eddi  	oz its the beta of the last weeks?
  	Oz Linden  	Well, someone has to actually look at the settings, Ann ... so anyone
  	Ann Otoole  	ok
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	it's for anyone who wants to see/experience the windlight presets as well
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	oh thank goodness, Trilobyte, the separate search viewer has beeen the crashiest version of the viewer I've used in ages
  	Haravikk  	Are test regions on the beta grid or available on the main-grid?
  	Oz Linden  	but what we're really interested in at the moment is whether the workflow for changing settings makes sense
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	main grid, since the servers already have the code
08:14 	Oz Linden  	this will work in any main grid region (with the caveats documented on that page)
08:15 	  	we've uncovered a couple of minor server issues during testing, which are fixed in sim versions that have not yet deployed
  	Jonathan  	Oz, would you list the regions in the wiki where you have established changes?
  	Oz Linden  	they'll make their way out to the grid in due course
  	  	this one and Hippo Hollow next door
  	  	there's a Group Notice about those in that group
08:16 	  	It's likely that Tiggs will be running around doing others :-)
  	Haravikk  	Seems simple enough, you just create a preset in the World menu like you always would, then just "import" it your region in region settings?
  	Oz Linden  	in the Region/Estate floater Environment tab, correct
08:17 	Haravikk  	Is there a button for opening the environment editor from the region/environment tab?
  	Oz Linden  	we've reorganized the Region/Estate floater
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	it might make sense to encourage folks who tweet to use an #slwindlight hashtag? perhaps share links to regions with settings or something?
  	Oz Linden  	there isn't right now... it's something we're thinking about, though
  	  	I'd rather not use twitter to get feedback
08:18 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	not for feedback, but to encourage residents to use for discovery
  	Oz Linden  	I won't tell people not to tweet, but I've asked people to use Group Notices to advertise regions to see
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	ok
  	Oz Linden  	Because this version is still pretty limited, I don't want to make a big deal of it yet
  	  	we don't need many users to find out what we need right now
08:19 	Jonathan  	I just added a Test Regions to the wiki; that might be a better place than (or in addition to) a group notice, as those do not persist and can be missed, etc
  	Oz Linden  	I'll make a louder announcement when we have the new sky and water editors working
  	  	good idea, Jonathan... thank you
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	good idea
08:20 	Jonathan  	Thanks to Boroondas I have become more of a wiki writer
  	Oz Linden  	yeah... you're a menace, JY :-)
08:22 	  	exuse me for just a moment....
08:23 	Marianne McCann  	hums some "on hold" music
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	hehe
08:25 	Oz Linden  	ok ... I'm back ... thank you
  	Ann Otoole  	there's an idea. make the welcome areas force radio on and play muzak elevator music
  	Oz Linden  	I was checking on the holdup for the links
  	  	will have them for you before we're done here !
  	Marianne McCann  	Tried it. Doesn't seem to make a difference, Ann
08:26 	  	grins
  	Jonathan  	pushed Ship It! button 3 times while waiting
  	Oz Linden  	So... let's try to discuss other things
  	  	SH-1618
08:27 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	you can skip the first item on the list, that's from last week and is already in viewer-dev
  	Oz Linden  	I _think_ that is fixed in the 2.7.1 beta too
  	  	which should also appear today, I believe
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	it hadn't been in any of the 2.7.1 dev snapshots
  	Oz Linden  	(the same person is doing both, and I just asked her to do mine first :-)
08:28 	  	please let me know when you can test it, TriloByte
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	will do
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	aren't we up to 2.72?
  	Oz Linden  	not in the beta channel
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	on the development builds, yes
  	Oz Linden  	2.6.9 is the current release channel,
08:29 	  	the beta channel now is 2.7.0 and about to be 2.7.1
  	  	and development is 2.7.2
08:30 	  	keeping these straight in my head is a running challenge :-)
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	gotcha, sorry, I run dev always
  	Oz Linden  	that's great - love to hear that we've got people running our bleeding edge !
08:31 	draconis.neurocam  	i do the same
  	Oz Linden  	(there are a few hundred of you)
08:32 	draconis.neurocam  	(have become quite used to going over all the debug settings as a side effect)
08:33 	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	except of course, right this minute, cause I couldn't accept a slurl from web on 231706
  	draconis.neurocam  	works fine here on 231706
  	Oz Linden  	Sorry for the pause... I'm getting lots of side-pings
08:34 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	it's the link on the page that's quirky, has some extraneous stuff on the end of if I think
  	Oz Linden  	That one was even better news, but I can't tell you what it is until next week (tease) !
  	draconis.neurocam  	haha
  	Marianne McCann  	Pfffft!!!!
  	Oz Linden  	LOL
08:35 	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	he's giving me incentive to wake up early enough to attend regularly lol
  	Jonathan  	Is next week=Monday or ?
  	Wolfpup  	Oz talking about the viewer numbers i finaly fugured out how to datestamp my nightly build
  	Oz Linden  	I don't know exactly when ....
08:36 	  	oh... that's cool, WP
  	  	back to our agenda....
08:37 	  	VWR-25943
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25943
VWR-25943 [TRUNCATION - SHORTEN OPTION] Mundo > Foto > VISTA PREVIA DE LA FOTO. "Calidad de la imag" should be "Calidad de la imagen"
  	Oz Linden  	mistyped
  	  	VWR-25942
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25942
VWR-25942 Include ability to format chat/IM's
08:38 	Oz Linden  	I like that idea, Haravikk
  	Haravikk  	I wasn't sure if there had been a similar issue already, but I searched for everything I could think of before posting, it'd be nice particularly for scripts to be able to put bold in chat to highlight things
  	Jonathan  	Is there a library that could be used to parse for these control sequences?
  	Haravikk  	But I could see users using it too, not sure how hard it is to add, or if there are any standard libraries to do it?
08:39 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	that would also work out nicely with adding help menu info for local/IM/group chat
  	Marianne McCann  	Agreed. Adds a bit of nuance, too, in chat. both for Educators and RPers.
  	Jonathan  	I looked at the code that parses slurl -- it is lengthy
  	Oz Linden  	Well, the next argument is what constitutes a "standard" for this kind of lightweight markup
  	Haravikk  	I believe the markup that the JIRA at least partially implements is called Textile
08:40 	  	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile_(markup_language)
  	Oz Linden  	I suspect pretty strongly that some already-much-needed refactoring would need to happen
  	Haravikk  	I doubt we'd need lists and things, but bold, italitc etc. would be great
  	Oz Linden  	yes, if it was limited enough it probably would not be too difficult
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	I'm not much to go by, but I'm used to *text* making 'text' bold, I never learned the othrs
  	Jonathan  	If there was a library that would return start location and length of a parsed string doing this would not be so hard
08:41 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	I agree, bold/italic/underline would be awesome
  	Haravikk  	I think regular expressions could handle this dead easily if a library doesn't already exist
  	Oz Linden  	I'd be willing to bet that there's a good lib out there somewhere
  	Jonathan  	The library would have to handle missing terminators and nested ones
  	Oz Linden  	but it's not a hard problem anyway
08:42 	  	I'll ask for wider review internally... there's a fair amount of attention being paid to chat now (although mostly on the infrastructure at the moment), so this is not far off what we're already doing
  	Haravikk  	Ah, links on the wiki page point to implementations for things like PHP and Java
  	Jonathan  	I tried to search for a library this morning but did not have any luck
08:43 	draconis.neurocam  	3p-pcre wouldnt do the trick?
  	Jonathan  	I heard that phoenix has user-customizable settings that will highlight strings you say are of interest
  	draconis.neurocam  	thats already in
08:44 	Oz Linden  	issue Ack 'ed and query sent internally
  	Haravikk  	Hmm, I think Phoenix does user names and stuff? Though I wonder how it's faring with display names!
  	  	But if they've rejigged the chat code it could be a good start?
08:45 	Oz Linden  	which finishes off our list, so we can just kick ideas around until I get the ok to post links :-)
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	vwr-25896
  	JIRA-helper  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25896
VWR-25896 [Regression] Bulk uploads do not adhere to default permissions
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	refresh your page, oz ;-)
08:46 	Haravikk  	So does the windlight for regions mean we're a step closer to sharing windlight settings as assets, or is that completely separate?
  	Oz Linden  	Ta Da!
  	  	It's separate, Haravikk, but something we'd very much like to do
08:47 	  	At the moment, the preset definitions are stored locally on your system (under user preferences)
  	  	and the values copied to the region
08:48 	  	that actually causes some bother in the implementation that would go away if they were assets
  	Jonathan  	Oz's TaDa means the links are published for the WL viewer
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	downloading now :)
  	Haravikk  	Right, was just hoping maybe the regions were storing them as an asset or such so it'd be dead easy to extend, oh well, regions are what the need the feature the most!
  	Eddi  	its not todo? :)
  	Oz Linden  	but it would have taken much longer to fix both at the same time
  	  	so we decided that we'd try to get the region settings working well enough to set and see, and then take on sharing and so on as a follow-up
08:49 	  	well, Eddi ... it's a todo without a date
  	Eddi  	Hhehe
08:51 	Haravikk  	Still great news though, I know some sim-owners that are going to be very happy, just wish I could afford one, no chance of a lifetime freebie island for testing purposes? ^^
  	Oz Linden  	The way it (and everything else) works is that when it comes time to decide what's next, that competes with everything else
08:52 	  	I'll send out some invites as soon as we're done here to the estate owners who had expressed an interest
  	Ann Otoole  	shareable windlight setting assets would add to the economy. make it easy to deliver etc. maybe.
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	before things wrap up, oz, what about bulk upload permissions?
  	Ann Otoole  	making a new set is to pull teeth with pliers
  	Oz Linden  	Yes ... making them economic items is an argument I will not neglect when that priority discussion takes place :-)
08:53 	  	Bulk upload permissions... that came up in a meeting just the other day and someone is supposed to be working on it
  	  	I don't know exactly who... but will try to keep an eye on it.
  	Eddi  	hey wolf
08:54 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	excellent.. unfortunately it's now broken in official, beta, and dev
  	Jonathan  	New topic: The future of automatic chat translation
  	Eddi  	techwolf*
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	ooh, good one
  	draconis.neurocam  	i think seraph fixed that in a recent mesh commit
  	Oz Linden  	Unless someone can suggest a solution to replace Google, I think the future is that we'll just strip it out shortly
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	this may be out in jira jira land, but does anyone get seriously annoyed that when some object (like a subscribo) sends a notecard, landmark or whatever, it closes the chat window you're currently typing in?
08:55 	TriloByte Zanzibar  	for me they don't close the window, they pop up above the window
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	What's wrong with google?
  	Oz Linden  	is there a jira issue that describes the specific scenario Charlene ?
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	it's when i try to click on them that the window closes
  	draconis.neurocam  	they are shutting down the translation api tech
08:56 	Oz Linden  	Google is shutting down the translation service
  	Haravikk  	Any reason why?
  	Wolfpup  	Tech Google is going to be closeing the api @ the end of the year
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	I don't know, its just something that has really begun to irritate me, I'll take a look or write it up formally.
  	Marianne McCann  	Ah thanks, Charlene. Reminded me of a bug I hit in 2.7.0 the other day, with group management closing IMs, and one fatal one that removed me from that, local chat, and movement.
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	most likely because as it was set up, they're not making any money on advertising
  	Oz Linden  	thanks, Charlene... be very specific, because there are lots of variants
  	Marianne McCann  	Need to comb the JIRA for it yet m'self.
08:57 	Techwolf Lupindo  	I sujest a debug setting that turns it off and hides it from the UI. So when another service comes up, don't have to re-patch in the entire code again.
  	Wolfpup  	Oz they are not shuting it down just closeing access to the api ans moveing to more site based
  	Oz Linden  	there's an issue on the Group thing already
  	  	it's part of why I was late, in fact
  	Marianne McCann  	I figured. I've just been too busy to find it.
  	Oz Linden  	for our purposes, they are shutting it down
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	Or a #if CHAT_TRANSLATE instad of stripping it out.
08:58 	Oz Linden  	well, that sort of code discussion isn't really in scope here
  	Wolfpup  	there was one sugestion about maybe LL 'leasing the rites to use the api in the dev list
  	Haravikk  	Hmm, are there any translation dictionaries that can be downloaded into the viewer and the translation performed there?
08:59 	Oz Linden  	So... go download the Project Viewer, come back and see the pretty world
  	  	I have no idea, Haravikk, but I strongly doubt it
  	Jonathan  	I am running it now
  	  	FBO was on in graphics, I had to disable that
  	  	what should the sky look like?
09:00 	Oz Linden  	Purple, at the moment :-)
  	Marianne McCann  	Have fun, all!
  	Jonathan  	blue to me
  	  	will try other region
09:01 	Eddi  	Oz, can you take my name?? for the test pls?
  	Wolfpup  	brb
  	Oz Linden  	make sure that you're set to display the region settings
09:02 	Eddi  	ty :)
  	Jonathan  	Use region settings is not the default Oz
09:03 	  	Wiki says it is
  	  	I think you got the xml file from a dev
  	  	ooo, purple
  	  	very nice
  	Haravikk  	Does Bing Translate have an API?
  	Jonathan  	This will be a big hit
09:04 	Oz Linden  	no idea, Haravikk
  	Charlene Trudeau - SkyBeam 	no!!!! no bing! omg no MS lol
  	Haravikk  	Only online alternative I've found so far, it looks like it has AJAX and HTTP API's
09:05 	Jonathan  	I was happy to see translator HUDs go away
09:07 	Ann Otoole  	it worketh
09:08 	Haravikk  	Anyways, I should be off, see you next week, if I remember the day change at least!
09:09 	Oz Linden  	thanks for coming
  	  	just finished sending out some more tester invites
  	TriloByte Zanzibar  	thanks oz