Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.04.01

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk 	Duckie Dickins 	Inara Pey
Jenna Felton 	Lexbot Sinister	Lucia Nightfire
Mona Eberhardt 	Nalates Urriah 	Oz Linden
Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Tankmaster Finesmith	Whirly Fizzle 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Simon Linden: So let's get going ... we had a server update this morning
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hey Whirly. Hi Oz.
[12:01] Oz Linden: hi
[12:01] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Everyone :)
[12:01] Simon Linden: The maintenance update that was on the Magnum channel was promoted to the main one
[12:02] Simon Linden: The forum post is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-03-31/td-p/2581114
[12:02] Simon Linden: Tomorrow all the RC channels get updated with the same version ... this code plus the back-end work that's in the other RC channels
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[12:03] Tankmaster Finesmith: AIS3 on all three RCs, right?
[12:03] Simon Linden: Yes, that's right
[12:03] Whirly Fizzle: Just to clarify, is the AIS3 actually enbled yet or not?
[12:03] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:03] Simon Linden: That's all I have for news ... Oz or Kelly, please speak up if you have anything
[12:04] Oz Linden: nothing from me
[12:04] rcdsQueChatLog: Duckie Dickins, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:04] rcdsQueChatLog: Lexbot Sinister, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:05] Whirly Fizzle: Is the AIS3 actually going to be switched on on all the RC's or just deployed but switched off?
[12:05] Simon Linden: Rex - you might want to make those llSayTo() calls
[12:06] Rex Cronon: llsayto is tooo sloow:(
[12:06] Simon Linden: I'm not sure of the exact plans, Whirly ... we usually don't like to deploy disabled code because there's not much point in that, unless there's a special reason we have to throw a big switch grid-wide all at once. But we really dont like systems that behave that way
[12:08] Whirly Fizzle: Okay ty
[12:08] Jenna Felton: why slow, Rex, they dont use a delay i beleive
[12:08] Oz Linden: check with me tomorrow, Whirly ... I'll find out
[12:08] Whirly Fizzle: Okies
[12:09] Whirly Fizzle: Well, I can use sunshine viewer & go to the RC's. You can tell in logs what system the viewers using
[12:09] Jenna Felton: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlRegionSayTo
[12:09] Simon Linden: I think you have all the info you need to make that function call, Rex, since you have the AV name, I assume you have their key. I didn't think there's a delay there
[12:10] Rex Cronon: hmm
[12:11] Simon Linden: anyway, it would be less chatty ... but thank you for making it available
[12:11] Tankmaster Finesmith: gaa i hate how the conv floater keeps moving to the primary screen when a new tab opens up
[12:11] Qie Niangao: Question about the jira system: I added an observation to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7739 but because it's in the "Inactive" SVC project, would I need to create a clone or something in BUG to point to it, in order for anyone to see it now?
[12:11] Rex Cronon: there is no functioon llsayto?
[12:12] Rex Cronon: u r welcome:)
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: llRegionSayTo() rex
[12:12] Simon Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlRegionSayTo
[12:12] Mona Eberhardt: /me adores llRegionSayTo
[12:13] Simon Linden: I think we skipped llSayTo() because there wasn't really a reason to have a range limit in that case
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: I use it religiously, says the daughter of the devil
[12:14] Jenna Felton: i am also using it for object communications
[12:14] Jenna Felton: because than other objects doenst get the message then
[12:14] Seewo (siwo): it's good for "transporters" :)
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: its good for private comm
[12:15] Whirly Fizzle: Would it be possible to set NORSPEC-310 as publicly viewable? Reason I ask is because https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5583 and https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5575 were closed as expected behaviour because of NORSPEC-310 and I'm nosy and would like to see it :D
[12:15] Jenna Felton: yes
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: force that snout in like a battling ram
[12:17] Oz Linden: There isn'
[12:17] Simon Linden: You should ask Alexa about that one, Whiry ... I don't see anything sensitive there, but I'm not sure what is easy (if anything) with the jira settings to make it visible. It might need to be cloned to a BUG to do the right thing
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: Okies
[12:17] Oz Linden: isn't anything special in NORSPEC-310 other than "this would be too expensive to do"
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh okay
[12:18] Simon Linden: The issues listed are:
[12:18] Simon Linden: A) Lighting from point and spot lights cannot be seen.
 B) Texture Glow does not draw.
 C) Textures with any amount of Transparency % set look full bright.
 D) Alpha Masks with Full bright enabled look dim.
[12:18] Qie Niangao: ooo... that BUG-5583 is unfortunate. gonna result in a *lot* of fake reflective water prims
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: when will the triagers group get ability to comment on closed bugs again, heh
[12:18] Simon Linden: I dont' know if that's 100% accurate, however
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, light reflections on water are purty. I miss them
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Its just viewerside expense though? Or server too?
[12:19] Simon Linden: I'm really not the right person to ask that, Lucy. I've been successfully avoiding the jira policy discussions
[12:19] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:19] Simon Linden: I'd guess just viewer, Whirly - I think that's purely a rendering function
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: Okay ta
[12:20] Mona Eberhardt: The way things are right now, water reflections' realism is sub-optimal and we have fewer tools for SL photography at our disposal. We're going to have to resort to desperate measures like making custom poses (with mirrored ones) in something like qAvimator, setting up extra props, using camera lock HUDs and then doing extra work on Photoshop or GIMP or what have you. In the previous situation, we would just set up the posing stand and the props, snap away and be done with it.
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: Well, faster to hop on a non mats viewer for shots where you want that effect ;)
[12:21] Mona Eberhardt: No Whirly. Me and Strawberry Singh tried it last year before materials came in.
[12:21] Mona Eberhardt: Before materials came in *officially*.
[12:21] Mona Eberhardt: June 2013.
[12:22] Mona Eberhardt: Actually, May 2013. I got the photos in June, after post-processing.
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: that ain't no 1 hour photo, heh
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: So, the capability was removed sometime between April 2012 and May 2013.
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: Perhaps in the preparation for materials.
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm I tested on the last pre mats build of V3 and it worked
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: It worked? o.O
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: This one http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.5.3
[12:24] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks. I'll check it out... Might come in handy.
[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: You need to change channel to get around the updater ;)
[12:24] Mona Eberhardt: The automatic updater?
[12:24] Whirly Fizzle: Yesh
[12:25] Rex Cronon: fixed:)
[12:26] Simon Linden: Let's see ... I heard Baker was working on his viewer with the group ban support. Apparently he discovered some ugly merge problem with missing code so that's taking a bit longer than we expected. He's also juggling some other work and it's all top priority :P
[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: The last group banz build & server version seem to be working pretty well. Viewer before that was really broken.
[12:28] Tankmaster Finesmith: last i heard, he was going to add back in the stuff that got removed
[12:28] Tankmaster Finesmith: cus it was braking several other things by not having the code there
[12:28] Simon Linden: right, it's just not always simple to find something that's not there
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: to quote some movie, heh
[12:29] Simon Linden: anyway ... he'll be able to sort it out pretty soon
[12:29] Whirly Fizzle: Cool :)
[12:29] Simon Linden: We had a good group chat test last week that gave me a few more things to fix
[12:29] Simon Linden: They weren't new issues, but showed some more ways the current system can fail
[12:30] Simon Linden: So it was a good test
[12:30] Qie Niangao: So... while I was trying to track down the content-rot caused by SVC-7739 (I mentioned earlier, about reversion of Linden grasses), I stumbled on some behaviour I didn't expect. For one: A group-owned script cannot rez Linden plants on land owned by that group. And a group-owned script cannot llReturnObjectsByID() objects owned by a group owner rezzed on group-owned land. Not sure whether these should be "expected" or not.
[12:30] Tankmaster Finesmith: so when will you test that out on FSE on the main grid? :P
[12:32] Simon Linden: That's the big question which I don't have an answer to
[12:33] Simon Linden: Hmm Qie ... I'm not sure if that's expected either ... but if it's not a regression, and not causing a lot of grief, I expect it's going to stay that way
[12:33] Duckie Dickins: I'm guessing there has never been talk of adding more linden plants, has there?
[12:33] Simon Linden: No, the plants are a relic of the very early design of SL
[12:34] Simon Linden: As it was developed, they quickly realized they couldn't have a different type of object for all the different stuff in-world ... so it just became generic prims
[12:34] Qie Niangao: right. thanks. I doubt if it's a big problem. It's just that I had an idea for a workaround of the grass-reversion problem, but that's pretty unwieldy because of the other weird behaviours.
[12:35] Simon Linden: I'd love to get rid of plants and such but it's not worth breaking things
[12:35] Rex Cronon: it might have been possible if type was just a string:)
[12:36] Lexbot Sinister: get rid of? Thats the only 1 prim tress of that scale we got!!
[12:36] Duckie Dickins: Yeah I always felt that linden plants were better than no plants.
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: Simon, any chance we'll see LSL control for the rest of the lighting parameters, i.e. the ones that make a light a projector?
[12:36] Seewo (siwo): why so? I love those LL trees :) ...and unlike sclupted ones, they don't reduce fps to 1.5 -_-
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: You know, texture, FOV, Focus, Ambiance.
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-163 (New PrimitiveParams flag: PRIM_PROJECTOR ) :D
[12:38] Simon Linden: I didn't mean to cut down the trees, lol ... just that there are special cases in our code for the plants and such that treat them differently. It makes the code more complicated and full of special rules. I do understand they're cheaper in cost and that's a good thing
[12:38] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Whirls.
[12:38] Lexbot Sinister: Ah, you mean like the silly ground-rezzing etc
[12:39] Simon Linden: ugh, we have too many flavors of jiras and feature requests
[12:39] Mona Eberhardt: And yes, it's still unassigned and it's, what, four years already? o.O
[12:39] Simon Linden: That sounds interesting Mona but I can't speculate on when it would get attention
[12:39] Whirly Fizzle: No such thing as too much JIRA :>P
[12:40] Seewo (siwo): aren't projectors scripted already? :o
[12:40] Mona Eberhardt: No Seewo.
[12:40] Jenna Felton: About linden pnalts, they look to be special prims and i beleive you can replace them by mesh plants now. What about to have a folder in library that has the plants replacement and in future other plants all in same place. and then just remove the plants from the world and make the owner replace them by new versions. Or disallow rezzing of plants at all, so the owner will use the replacements as soon they want remake they land over?
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: lol there would be screams
[12:40] Rex Cronon: well simon. that is the side effect of jiras being closed general public. now it will hopefully get better:)
[12:41] Qie Niangao: well, but Linden plants have some very special properties. like repositioning themselves when land gets terraformed (as by a neighbor, for example)
[12:41] Jenna Felton: ahh
[12:41] Jenna Felton: ok
[12:41] Mona Eberhardt: Simon, just imagine the potential of having scripted projectors, changing their projected texture and whatnot. It'd probalbly give us the opportunity to make a vintage Zeiss planetarium!
[12:41] Rex Cronon: closed to*
[12:42] Qie Niangao: (some of them, that is... the grasses and ground covers, I mean)
[12:42] Jenna Felton: ok, that is a point,Qie :)
[12:42] Yuzuru Jewell: Did code of BAN List change? I heard BAN list added the avatar unbidden.
[12:42] Qie Niangao: (FWIW, I vaguely recall some fuss about potential lagginess if projected lights changed too fast under script control.)
[12:43] Mona Eberhardt: Or a slideshow like the ones elderly uncles used to make us sit through while we were getting bored to death.
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: added the avatar unbidden?
[12:44] Simon Linden: lol Mona -- I'm not sure that's going to be a selling point
[12:44] Whirly Fizzle: Estate ban or parcel ban?
[12:44] Oz Linden: My uncles slides were pretty cool...
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: My uncle's weren't, Oz.
[12:44] Yuzuru Jewell: I think it is Personal ban list.
[12:45] Whirly Fizzle: Oh block list?
[12:45] Simon Linden: I don't know of any ban list changes, Qie
[12:45] Yuzuru Jewell: BLOCK is correctly.
[12:45] Yuzuru Jewell: Sorry.
[12:45] Simon Linden: the viewer-side block list?
[12:45] Yuzuru Jewell: yes
[12:45] Qie Niangao: (not me. I dunno from ban / block lists)
[12:46] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm theres a bug atm where blocked avatars don't derender if thats what you mean
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: theres a worse one in FS imo, heh
[12:47] Yuzuru Jewell: OK, I will hear about it from them more.
[12:47] Whirly Fizzle: There is? o.O We have that same bug as V3
[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: the one wear you mute someone wearing a sculpt lagger and it still interferes with right clickign the area
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: Errr... Does websearch work, guys?
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: Oh, it does.
[12:48] Whirly Fizzle: Hmmm working here
[12:48] Tankmaster Finesmith: when has it ever worked?
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: It had a hiccup, methinks.
[12:49] Whirly Fizzle: It has permanent indegestion heh
[12:49] Simon Linden: yeah, it seems to be functioning ok now ... I'm getting results
[12:50] Simon Linden: There's not much point in discussing here how good the search results are, however
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: whats coming down the pipe?
[12:50] Whirly Fizzle: Not enough time left for that one :P
[12:50] Simon Linden: The team that owns that is aware of the many issues people have pointed out
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: no word on exp perms either I take it
[12:51] Simon Linden: We don't have any info about new things, Lucy
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: we're hungry for shineys
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: since liek Dec, lol
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: or whenever llScalebyFactor was released
[12:52] Tankmaster Finesmith: anyone seen the firestorm april fools video?
[12:52] Mona Eberhardt: Welcome back, Inara.
[12:52] Inara Pey: ta.
[12:52] Yuzuru Jewell: Please give me the URL of it, TankMaster!
[12:52] Nalates Urriah: tank, yes
[12:53] Simon Linden: I liked that :)
[12:53] Nalates Urriah: Jessica was funny. :)
[12:53] Yuzuru Jewell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFjwxiYzWI ?
[12:53] Tankmaster Finesmith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFjwxiYzWI
[12:53] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you!
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: http://www.firestormviewer.org/introducing_firestorm_dui/
[12:54] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Whirly!
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: and LL did a funny this tear too!
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: *year
[12:54] Inara Pey: LL's is a classic!
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Introducing-Anaglyph-3D-Mode/ba-p/2584148
[12:55] Mona Eberhardt: Simon and Oz... Are we going to see View-Master support in Second Life anytime soon?
[12:55] Rex Cronon: that video has a trojan in it...
[12:55] Whirly Fizzle: eh?
[12:55] Oz Linden: if we get it contributed, Mona :-)
[12:56] Tankmaster Finesmith: viewer-master support?
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: adobe is a trojan by nature >.> heh
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: View-Master, Tank.
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: thank the advertising companies
[12:56] Rex Cronon: april 1st.lol
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-Master
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: This one.
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: The grandfather of the Oculus Rift.
[12:57] Whirly Fizzle: lol I still have one of those
[12:57] Tankmaster Finesmith: ah
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: the father would be Nintendo Virtua Boy
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: Here's how I imagine the implementation.
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Connect the computer to a special printer that will output those slide cards from SL and then put them into the device.
[12:58] Seewo (siwo): silly question... is there any way how to become able to build at mainland's "land not for sale"? There are so many places begging to be built at :D ...I mean, any other than LDPW. Since from what I was told Moles are paid, I don't really care about this part of it.
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Flick through them.
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Print a new set.
[12:58] Duckie Dickins: mm.. Oculus Rift....Powered by Facebook...kinda catchy
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Replace.
[12:58] Oz Linden: /me thinks you could actually do that.... two cameras, take snapshots, print slides...
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: It'll give SL lag a whole new meaning.
[12:58] Simon Linden: Mona ... you could do that now, if you somehow managed to control the camera so you could take a right-eye then left-eye snapshot
[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: Well, Simon... The more Rube Goldberg-ish a solution is, the cooler it is.
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: FOOD
[13:00] Oz Linden: /me wonders if that's why TPVs are cool
[13:00] Simon Linden: lol Oz ... I think that's my cue to run away
[13:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: *CENSORED*
[13:01] Adamburp Adamczyk: i arrived late
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: click Rex' box adam
[13:01] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: have a good week, simon
[13:01] Rex Cronon: yes:)
[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: Take care, Simon.
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: get that 411
[13:01] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon, Oz, Kelly... have fun all.
[13:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[13:01] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming and the good discussion
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