Open Source Meeting/2007-11-08

< Open Source Meeting
Open source meeting - Thursday, 2pm PT.
Teleport to the Linden Open Source Project headquarters.
== Agenda ==
* Architecture Working Group wiki edits. Liana Linden 16:22, 7 November 2007 (PST)
* Next Item?
== Transcript ==
* [14:07] Rob Linden: we've got a short agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda .... we can talk about Nicholaz's post after that
* [14:07] Tess Linden: I believe VWR-2995 is a servers side fix
* [14:07] Kooky Jetaime: he's arguably one of the best OS supporters
* [14:07] Rob Linden: I'll turn the floor over to Liana
* [14:07] Q Linden: saijanai, i've heard of a monkey on your back, but that's just creepy
* [14:08] Rob Linden: (unless she doesn't want it) :)
* [14:08] Wyn Galbraith: I have to go drive someone somewhere
* [14:08] Liana Linden: I don't have anything to add to what I wrote on the list. So, does anyone have questions about the recent AWG wiki restructuring edits?
* [14:09] Saijanai Kuhn: just that people should understand that AW Groupies and AWG are not quite the same thing so our rules for posting are bit different
* [14:09] Saijanai Kuhn: "rule" makes sense here for us
* [14:10] Liana Linden: Thanks, Saijani. I think you did a good job of clearing that up on list.
* [14:10] Dzonatas Sol: I've read them... it jives
* [14:10] Rob Linden: seems fine to me
* [14:10] Rob Linden: I think the one thing that we will have to sort out is main namespace etiquette
* [14:10] Kooky Jetaime: grits his teeth at 2995 rearing its head...
* [14:11] Liana Linden: Yep. I'll add a note about that to Best Practices.
* [14:11] Squirrel Wood: last thing I edited on the wiki was numbers on llModifyLand for the brush size
* [14:11] Saijanai Kuhn: wow. Chat IM is so borked right now, can't even start a private conference chat
* [14:11] Dzonatas Sol: puts out notice of the TBB/OpenJPEG patch on SLDev. Anybody with multicore, I love feedback on!
* [14:12] Rob Linden: there's potential for confusion when someone drops something in the main namespace about whether that document is just one person's opinion, just an unaffiliated group's opinon, something that's officially on Linden Lab's roadmap, or something that objectively describes how Second Life is today
* [14:12] Rob Linden: there's a continuum (in the order I described) along which it becomes more appropriate to be in the main namespace
* [14:13] Dzonatas Sol: Do we need a "Draft" category?
* [14:13] Saijanai Kuhn: for the AWG, everything is understood to be draft or at least unofficial
* [14:13] Liana Linden: I think your user space works as a draft category
* [14:14] Saijanai Kuhn: ZEro also put up an INcubator category
* [14:14] Rob Linden: Saijanai: I don't think that's clear in reading every page
* [14:14] Saijanai Kuhn: AW Groupies, not AWG sorry
* [14:14] Dzonatas Sol: Consider even LSL pages, there is new ones that pop up in main namespace
* [14:14] Dzonatas Sol: *are
* [14:14] Kooky Jetaime: Maybe the groupies should be AWGG not AWGroupies?
* [14:15] Rob Linden: we may need to have some sort of boilerplate disclaimer on top of pages that don't represent either something officially on Linden Lab's roadmap or somethign that objectively describes Second Life as it is today
* [14:15] Liana Linden: Drafts should be in user space or in the Incubator, AWGroupies, or VAG areas until vetted in an official AWG meeting (here or Zero's offic hour)
* [14:15] Rob Linden: e.g. at the top of the page
* [14:16] Saijanai Kuhn: me and morgaine have been working on a VAG for a test client. Its clearly labeled "draft" even in hte name
* [14:16] Squirrel Wood: make the difference clear by using different colors ?
* [14:16] Liana Linden: Rob, would we have a higher chance of success by taking the opposite approach and labeling official pages?
* [14:17] Q Linden: I was about to suggest that
* [14:17] Dzonatas Sol: I thought about that, but then it gets into complexity of who and how it become official
* [14:17] Dzonatas Sol: *became
* [14:17] Rob Linden: where might expand to a horizontally long box that says "This represents a proposal authored by a Resident (or multiple residents) and does not necessarily reflect the views of Linden Lab"
* [14:18] Rob Linden: we have over 2000+ pages, most of which describe things that wouldn't need an tag
* [14:18] Kooky Jetaime: Liana - that would be useful, and a good standard going beyond just this issue.
* [14:18] Rob Linden: moreover, I don't want the wiki to become dominated by unofficial stuff
* [14:19] Liana Linden: I think official, in the case of AWG, means a Linden has looked over the doc and believes it is a) within the scope of AWG, and 2) likely to be used and useful.
* [14:19] Saijanai Kuhn: by LInden Lab...
* [14:19] Liana Linden: / was answering Dzonatas' question above
* [14:19] Rob Linden: Saijanai: by the community looking for what Linden Lab is up to
* [14:19] Kooky Jetaime: some days, I must say, I almost think it would be a good idea to break the wiki into mulitple wikis...
* [14:20] Squirrel Wood: "Linden Approved Article" ?
* [14:20] Dzonatas Sol: "SLAWG Approved" hehe
* [14:20] Squirrel Wood: Liana, your voice channel is open
* [14:20] Kooky Jetaime: Rob, the only downside as well, is once you "approve" an article, it only takes 1 edit to make it suddenly unapproved because of content, yet the flag remains.
* [14:21] Liana Linden: /sorry about the noise. Somehow the toggle keeps getting reset to on.
* [14:21] Rob Linden: Kooky: that's why I don't want to have an "official" flag
* [14:21] Dzonatas Sol: In the history of Wikipedia, I'd lean away from the tag
* [14:21] Kooky Jetaime: Well, the flip side is that anything without an unofficial tag, /is/ official?
* [14:21] Dzonatas Sol: *by experience
* [14:22] Rob Linden: since it's a wiki, it will always be "reader beware". however, I quite frankly want a way to tag something that is explicitly *not* where linden Lab is heading
* [14:22] Kooky Jetaime: once you segregate one type of article, you've automatically done the mirror
* [14:22] Rob Linden: the alternative is that I delete or move into user space
* [14:23] Squirrel Wood: user.wiki.secondlife.com ?
* [14:23] Squirrel Wood: unofficial.wiki.... ?
* [14:23] Kooky Jetaime: seperate wiki?
* [14:23] Morgaine Dinova: No threats please. We're working together as a team.
* [14:23] Kooky Jetaime: threat? who threatened?
* [14:23] Dzonatas Sol: separate wiki is the original wiki sprawl effect
* [14:24] Rob Linden: well, a separate wiki would not be all bad. the only problem I would see with it would be making sure that the IPR policy works to be able to move thigns onto wiki.secondlife.com
* [14:25] Rob Linden: I'm starting to think a "sandbox" namespace may be appropriate in addition to user space
* [14:25] Morgaine Dinova: Rob, what's your beef with working cooperatively with the community, and picking and choosing what you want to take from it? That's what Zero said he'd do.
* [14:26] Rob Linden: Morgaine: I have no probem with working with the community
* [14:26] Dzonatas Sol: A sandbox namespace would allow a quick way to move pages without any time to research who made the page and what user space it should go into
* [14:27] Liana Linden: How would a sandbox differ from the Incubator?
* [14:27] Squirrel Wood: sandbox being a better known term?
* [14:27] Morgaine Dinova: We're all trying to do our best for LL and SL after all. Many of us are giving up income to try to get us out of the non-scalability mess. Kicking us in the teeth isn't particularly nice. We're working hard.
* [14:27] Squirrel Wood: sl sandbox, wiki sandbox...
* [14:27] Dzonatas Sol: incubator sounds more official... or at least has more consensus?
* [14:28] Rob Linden: Liana: 2 ways. 1. It would be a namespace, so it'd be obvious from the page title that something is different. 2. the incubator is AWG specific; this would be something that would be applicable for all areas of the wiki
* [14:28] Liana Linden: Gotcha.
* [14:28] Rob Linden: there's a number of other pages on the wiki that I've wanted to do this for (e.g. proposed LSL functions)
* [14:29] Squirrel Wood: llDisconnect(key UUID); ? ^^
* [14:29] Rob Linden: I've been very hesitant in the past to create new namespaces on this wiki, because the lines are blurry, but in this case, I think the line could be clear enough
* [14:29] Kooky Jetaime: llInvite2Group()
* [14:31] JayR Cela: ok here is my take on some of theis / #1 the majority of the SL community / just does not have the same concearns that we do
* [14:31] JayR Cela: all they want to do is log in and enjoy themselves
* [14:31] Kooky Jetaime: true
* [14:31] JayR Cela: invites the majority of the general population into the WIKI is a bad ides
* [14:31] Dzonatas Sol: I favor the sandbox: idea at the moment.
* [14:31] Rob Linden: I think I'm leaning that way as well
* [14:32] Rob Linden: ok...let's give it a little more thought. I'll take an action item to at least send a mail to sldev about it
* [14:33] Rob Linden: (and put something on the "Editing Discussion" page)
* [14:33] JayR Cela: ok / #2......
* [14:33] Rob Linden: JayR: is there something you want one of us to comment on?
* [14:34] JayR Cela: this is a closed group / what we discuss here / should stay here / no open to the public discussions / untill we nail down some of the more pertant issues
* [14:34] Wyn Galbraith: returns.
* [14:34] Saijanai Kuhn: ???
* [14:34] Saijanai Kuhn: public office hours, JayR
* [14:34] Rob Linden: um.....wait a sec. we post the transcript
* [14:34] Kooky Jetaime: Doesn't the "not open to the public" go against the whole pretense of open source?
* [14:34] JayR Cela: it should only be allowed to people directly involved
* [14:35] Squirrel Wood: four eyes see more than two
* [14:35] Saijanai Kuhn: completely against the open source AND wiki credos
* [14:35] Rob Linden: we're not going to be closing this off
* [14:36] JayR Cela: if we are completely open about everything we are propseing to do and or accomplish / then we leave ourselves wide open to possible competitors
* [14:36] Rob Linden: unless someone agrees with JayR here, I think its best we move on. JayR: I can talk to you after this
* [14:36] JayR Cela: hey is just my opinion / you asked / i said my piece
* [14:37] Rob Linden: k....have we talked this topic out?
* [14:38] Dzonatas Sol: mmhmm I'll get the transcript
* [14:38] Rob Linden: moving on. someone brought up 
* [14:38] Rob Linden: Dz: thanks
* [14:38] Morgaine Dinova: I don't think you understand working with the community, Rob. It's not in your heart.
* [14:38] Kooky Jetaime: raises hand.. yep.
* [14:39] Rob Linden: k. I guess Nicholaz is frustrated with the bug count in the viewer
* [14:40] Rob Linden: which is understandable. we want to improve the viewer, and we're working to do that
* [14:40] Q Linden: and it may also have to do with the rate of changes.
* [14:40] Q Linden: heck, I'm internal and it's tough to keep up
* [14:40] JayR Cela: yeah , I know Nic / have had many discussions with him / he is tired of fixing stuff all the time
* [14:40] Saijanai Kuhn: Also with the trhouput of the changes he makes
* [14:40] Rob Linden: I don't recall which release this revamped crash reporter is in. Q (or anyone else), do you recall?
* [14:40] Gigs Taggart: Nicholaz's viewer has a ton of stuff fixed that LL hasn't merged.
* [14:41] JayR Cela: why is his patched viewer / allways / consistantly superior to the official LL release
* [14:41] Kooky Jetaime: revamped crash reporter?
* [14:41] JayR Cela: its pissing him off
* [14:41] Q Linden: rob, i'm not tracking that one
* [14:41] Q Linden: hang on and I'll see if I can find out
* [14:41] Morgaine Dinova: Simple idea: run twin track clients: one at your slow LL pace, and one in which you merge patches from the community rapidly. The superiority of one or the other will soon prove itself.
* [14:42] Kooky Jetaime: heh.. nice idea Morgaine
* [14:42] Kooky Jetaime: but what we don't need is yet another "flavor" of client
* [14:42] JayR Cela: that is a viable idea Morgaine
* [14:42] Kooky Jetaime: I mean we have Official, RC, Beta, Firstlook
* [14:42] Kooky Jetaime: what'll we call this one?
* [14:43] Kooky Jetaime: Official OS?
* [14:43] Morgaine Dinova: It goes back again to the central problem here. You're only paying lip service to "working with the community". Nicholas is well regarded, not a cowboy.
* [14:43] Q Linden: morgaine, there are several things fighting with each other here. We *really* got the message about the quality of our releases, and we're trying really hard to raise that quality.
* [14:44] Q Linden: We're changing the way we do releases.
* [14:44] JayR Cela: Morgain / I can tell you for a fact / Nic is about had it with some of the sillyness / and we are about to lose him
* [14:44] Rob Linden: we've incorporated many of Nicholaz's patches, and looked at many of the others. I haven't personally done the investigation, but my understanding is that the fixes that haven't been incorporated mask the real problem rather than address it. that gives a short term boost, but leads to long term problems
* [14:44] Dzonatas Sol: I've tried to keep up on the different patches. It is not easy to keep merges together over iterations of versions.
* [14:44] Kooky Jetaime: I see releases slowing down, but are they getting more quality in the long run?
* [14:44] Rob Linden: Kooky, I hope so
* [14:44] Saijanai Kuhn: Kooky the RC gets released on a reuglar basis.
* [14:45] JayR Cela: this current official release / is pretty good / so far I am satisfied with it very much
* [14:45] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: Nicholaz is no fool. If you show him where a match masks a deeper problem, he is likely to accept it. If you just ignore him, he gets pissed off.
* [14:45] Kooky Jetaime: I'm using BE-s myself
* [14:45] Morgaine Dinova: s/match/patch/
* [14:45] Michelle2 Zenovka: Yes the viewers have been getting much better recently but there are still even build issues on linux that are taking ages to get commited to the offical tree
* [14:45] Rob Linden: we don't ignore Nicholaz (as evidenced by this conversation)
* [14:45] JayR Cela: yeah he is getting tired of re-fixing things all the time
* [14:46] JayR Cela: for crying out loud / offer him a job at LL
* [14:46] Rob Linden: who says we havent
* [14:46] Q Linden: fwiw, I've been working on one thing for 2 months and I'm now on my 5th re-merge, about to do the 6th.
* [14:46] Q Linden: It's part of the way we are, honestly.
* [14:47] Deanfred Brandeis: Q: Do you guys have a dedicated release manager?
* [14:47] Morgaine Dinova: KK Q.
* [14:47] Q Linden: yes
* [14:47] Rob Linden: it's also the case that over half of the development team has been at Linden Lab has been here less than a year
* [14:47] Deanfred Brandeis: Q: cool
* [14:47] Dzonatas Sol: Q, I feel for you, but luckily you get access to internal svn history =)
* [14:47] Rob Linden: I think that part of what you're seeing is partly the result of growing pains
* [14:48] Kooky Jetaime: growing pains shouldn't cause people to throw up their arms and say "I give up"
* [14:48] Q Linden: Dz, I hear ya. Part of my goals for this quarter (if I get out from under this project) is to try to do at least one of my projects on the outside of the firewall, so I can feel that pain and improve the systems.
* [14:48] Kooky Jetaime: which is practically what Nicholaz is doing imo
* [14:48] Gigs Taggart: Q, excellent
* [14:49] Gigs Taggart: The amount of unaccepted patches is growing to be huge lately.
* [14:49] Saijanai Kuhn: as an aside, I'm starting a VAG to create a message-passing, modular client to test the AWG protocols. As a first pass, hope to get it logging onto the current system and go from there
* [14:49] JayR Cela: well we have aproximately a year and a half before LL see's some serious compition / so / time to get our act together is now / not tomorrow or next week or next month
* [14:49] Gigs Taggart: It went down for a while but it's back up
* [14:50] Dzonatas Sol: I think the pile of patches is more of a result of the viewer not being broken down into smaller components. I understand it is together as one for installation purposes.
* [14:50] Rob Linden: feature patches or bug patches?
* [14:50] Gigs Taggart: Rob: both
* [14:51] Saijanai Kuhn: with octopus arms reaching in all directions
* [14:51] Saijanai Kuhn: modular it ain't
* [14:51] Kooky Jetaime: Rob- I come across the svn the other day, how many people outside of LL have the ability to commit directly to it? And is that SVN used to build the official release ?
* [14:51] JayR Cela: Sai / correct / there is a definate lack of direction and a modular aproach to the general code
* [14:51] Gigs Taggart: Rob: and really most of the "Features" fix things that are borderline bugs anyway :)
* [14:52] Rob Linden: Kooky, there are a few external contributors that have access to the external repository, but to date, it hasn't been used for patch submission
* [14:52] Dzonatas Sol: I wonder what the size comparision is of number of devs on SL project to Mozilla
* [14:52] Kooky Jetaime: Why can't it be?
* [14:52] Rob Linden: lots of reasons, mainly logistics
* [14:52] Gigs Taggart: Rob: I see no point is committing to that SVN, since no one at LL will use it for anything :)
* [14:52] Gigs Taggart: Rob: not to mention, building from it is very hard.
* [14:53] Q Linden: fyi, folks, we have a viewer refactoring project inhouse that has just been kicked off
* [14:53] Gigs Taggart: Q: that's a problem too
* [14:53] Saijanai Kuhn: funny, we have one here too
* [14:53] Gigs Taggart: Q: Why isn't the community in on that?
* [14:53] Rob Linden: ok. there's something I do have to say about the tone of this conversation that I want everyone to reflect on
* [14:53] Q Linden: Part of the goals for that project (which I'm working on) is to chop it up so that it's better suited for community input
* [14:53] Morgaine Dinova: Well everyone KNOWS that LL is under extreme stress and overworked, and lots of people are trying to help. Those volunteers really shouldn't be discouraged, and in some cases blocked. Make a community SVN, build a "community client", let people help in any way the can, don't obstruct them.
* [14:53] Kooky Jetaime: Perhaps allowing some to commit directly to it will increase the rate of patch acceptance
* [14:53] Saijanai Kuhn: Q we should compare notes...
* [14:54] Kooky Jetaime: wishes he had the bandwidth to host a community SVN.. I would.... once I learned how to use it.. heh
* [14:54] Saijanai Kuhn: note that I have any yet, just a very rough and incomplete diagram
* [14:54] Wyn Galbraith: What's that Rob?
* [14:54] Rob Linden: if every conversation that Lindens have in world is about all of the things that we do wrong or don't do, and how poorly our software is constructed, and how badly we interact, then how do you expect me to lure other Lindens to partake in these conversations?
* [14:55] Rob Linden: mind you, I'm not taking offense at what's being said
* [14:55] Dale Glass: Kooky, try Dreamhost. To be honest, reliability isn't good, but they give a lot of bandwidth and disk space cheaply
* [14:55] Rob Linden: and I acknowledge that we do have plenty of problems
* [14:55] Gigs Taggart: Rob: These are serious problems. :)
* [14:55] Kooky Jetaime: Rob - by saying this. We're not attacking you personally, well, most of us arn't. but without constructive critisim, it will continue with "Business as usual" and that just can't be maintained.
* [14:55] Dale Glass: I host my viewer's site there
* [14:55] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: well we're trying help. Taking offence at offers of help would be silly.
* [14:55] Dzonatas Sol: Kooky, OSLCC
* [14:55] Rob Linden: Kooky, that's not true
* [14:55] Kooky Jetaime: Dale - I ain't got squat.
* [14:55] Wyn Galbraith: Good point, Rob, and something I hate hearing.. Instead of concentrating on the bad and not working stuff we should be geared to what makes it better.
* [14:56] Rob Linden: a number of people are trying to be constructive, don't get me wrong
* [14:56] Dale Glass: well, it's a general thing. People rarely send anything besides complaints. Happy people are often silently happy :-)
* [14:56] Rob Linden: I'm just saying, it's a bit like a nagging spouse ;-)
* [14:56] Gigs Taggart: It's not like we are random Joe Whiner on the blog.
* [14:56] Gigs Taggart: hehe
* [14:57] Saijanai Kuhn: I would say, everyone here is frustrated in some way...
* [14:57] Wyn Galbraith: has been frankly considering jumping ship due to the bad rap LL seems to always get. Personally I know you are all hard working and there is no conspiracy.
* [14:57] Morgaine Dinova: Suggestion: if not enough manpower or computing resource in LL, post an invitation to SLdev for someone to run the community-client SVN, from which you will build. If you type "make" and it doesn't build, that's not your problem. The community will sort it.
* [14:57] JayR Cela: Sai / I know I am / right now
* [14:57] Rob Linden: Morgaine: already done.
* [14:57] Kooky Jetaime: good suggestion
* [14:57] Rob Linden: several months ago
* [14:57] Gigs Taggart: yeah that's been tried a lot of times
* [14:57] Squirrel Wood: Aye. Constructive criticism is always better than destructive one.
* [14:58] Gigs Taggart: one of the things holding back such a fork is all the proprietary dependancies
* [14:58] Morgaine Dinova: Nobody volunteered a server?
* [14:58] Rob Linden: server volunteered already
* [14:58] Gigs Taggart: which is why I focus conversation often on getting rid of the proprietary deps
* [14:58] Morgaine Dinova: Gigs: seconded
* [14:58] Michelle2 Zenovka: Gigs we can most things with out proprietary deos now
* [14:58] Michelle2 Zenovka: *deps
* [14:58] Gigs Taggart: michelle, yeah if you don't want sound, voice, reliable texture decoding
* [14:58] Rob Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2007-July/thread.html#3539
* [14:59] Kooky Jetaime: Rob, then let me be the idiot to ask the question unasked.. If they have the server, and the volunteers, what do we not have
* [14:59] Kooky Jetaime: ?
* [14:59] Rob Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev/2007-July/003540.html
* [14:59] Michelle2 Zenovka: my sound is fine, (ok no wind), my texture deconding is stabel but no voice :-)
* [14:59] Morgaine Dinova: Kooky: good question
* [14:59] Dzonatas Sol: notices a lot of progress at LL with Open Source. It is not easy, but even from my probes and pokes, I notice a lot of progress. =)
* [15:00] Morgaine Dinova: It's easy to make progress. Just have to work together, no threats or whips.
* [15:00] Wyn Galbraith: No whinning.
* [15:00] Kooky Jetaime: Rob, then let me be the idiot to ask the question unasked.. If they have the server, and the volunteers, what do we not have? <- in case you missed it while pasting list links..
* [15:00] Rob Linden: Kooky: I think a volunteer who is willing to shepherd the sandbox branch
* [15:01] Gigs Taggart: That's a tall order, since we'd have to be merging everything back in from LL's dev tree constantly
* [15:02] Day Oh: bump
* [15:02] Kooky Jetaime: isn't the whole point of having the community svn to get away from having to constantly do remerges? or did I just totally miss something?
* [15:02] Morgaine Dinova: You're right Kooky. So, how do we resolve that?
* [15:02] Gigs Taggart: Kooky, as long as LL is maintaining a separate tree, we'd have to merge constantly.
* [15:02] Michelle2 Zenovka: your going to get massive conflicts of existing patchs and stuff from the dev tree. its difficult and time consuming to keep the two in sync
* [15:02] Rob Linden: given how much merging we have to do ourselves, I don't see us exempting the community
* [15:03] Rob Linden: :)
* [15:03] Dzonatas Sol: The idea of the sandbox was not to do wholesale merges of patch lots.
* [15:03] Q Linden: I'm almost afraid to ask the question, but has anybody here used mercurial?
* [15:03] Gigs Taggart: Rob: heh you brought that on yourself though :)
* [15:03] Rob Linden: anyway, we're timing out here
* [15:03] Rob Linden: (going over, actually)
* [15:04] Rob Linden: Q seems to be working up to an interesting conversation, and you all can keep going, but I should go
* [15:04] Morgaine Dinova: We need to resolve the SVN issue. Just saying "That's how it is" isn't good enough.
* [15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: thanks Rob
* [15:04] JayR Cela: thanks for your time RPb :_)
* [15:04] Dzonatas Sol: have a beautiful day Rob
* [15:04] JayR Cela: Rob
* [15:04] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Rob.
* [15:04] Dzonatas Sol: thank you everybody for being here
* [15:04] Kooky Jetaime: Ben's UI triage is now I believe
* [15:04] Rob Linden: bye all
* [15:04] Wyn Galbraith: It's overcast in the Bay Area today, at lease on this side of the bay.
* [15:04] Day Oh: <3
* [15:04] Morgaine Dinova: Cheers all
* [15:04] Gigs Taggart: there IS no UI triage kooky
* [15:05] Wyn Galbraith: Beautiful to me, but not to most others ;)
* [15:05] Q Linden: thanks, folks
* [15:05] JayR Cela: Bye Q / thanks :_)
* [15:05] Kooky Jetaime: don't look like bens having an hour even
* [15:05] Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Q.
* [15:05] Gigs Taggart: Ui triage is canceled forever
* [15:05] Wyn Galbraith: /mee bugs out.
* [15:05] Wyn Galbraith: Excuse the pun.
* [15:05] Saijanai Kuhn: which is his UI disccussion and which is us bug triage? He said he was keepign the discussion hour
* [15:06] Gigs Taggart: triage was today
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: Today was discussion
* [15:06] Michelle2 Zenovka: Dz, do you want testers of the jpeg patch on all different systems? i can run it through by builds if its helpful
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: triage is on tuesday
* [15:06] Gigs Taggart: oh
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: was on tuesday
* [15:06] Gigs Taggart: sorry
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: np
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: but nobody appears to be at his office
* [15:06] Kooky Jetaime: no dots at least
* [15:06] JayR Cela: kooky whos that / Benjamin Lindens office ??
* [15:07] Gigs Taggart: Q, the community can help refactor the code too, as the recent UI refactoring patches showed
* [15:07] Kooky Jetaime: Ben's canceled today
* [15:07] Gigs Taggart: we just need some guidance and coordination
* [15:07] Kooky Jetaime: next week
* [15:08] Kooky Jetaime: I just hate the idea of losing Nicholaz