Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-07-12

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on July , 2012
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* Big week.
* Second Life Server Channel
* Prebaked Av Textures project.
** This channel has server changes to process prebaked avatar textures for library outfits again.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/12#12.06.20.260188
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This is a "maint-server" project.
* Bug Fixes:
** : HUD Attachments Receive Infrequent Updates when Camera is Zoomed Out
** : [PUBLIC] Newly created notecards dont auto open in the viewer on 12.04.12.253726 
** : llGetAgentList() with scope AGENT_LIST_PARCEL or AGENT_LIST_PARCEL_OWNER returns empty list when attached to avatar 
** : Role 'Everyone' in new groups should not have ability "Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends" 
** : Top Scripts Refresh in Region/Estate Tools Broken 
** : Scripted agents can't abandon land on private estates 
** : HUD Attachments Receive Infrequent Updates when Camera is Zoomed Out
** : Filtering by object name or owner name in top scripts/top colliders no longer works
** : Excessive EnableSimulator message spamming to viewers 
** : Please automatically unmute avatars who have muted themselves, and prevent this from occuring server-side.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.07.09.261392
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This is the Creator Tools project.
* Added three new LSL functions:
** llAttachToAvatarTemp(integer attach_point) -- Follows the same convention as llAttachToAvatar, with the exception that the object will not create inventory for the user, and will disappear on detach, or disconnect. It should be noted that when an object is attached temporarily, a user cannot 'take' or 'drop' the object that is attached to them. The user is 'automatically' made the owner of the object. Temporary attached items cannot use the llTeleportAgent or llTeleportAgentGlobalCoords LSL functions.
** llTeleportAgent(key agent_uuid, string lm_name, vector landing_point, vector look_at_point) -- Teleport Agent allows the script to teleport an agent to either a local coordinate in the current region or to a remote location specified by a landmark. If the destination is local, the lm_name argument is a blank string. The landing point and look at point are respected for this call. If the destination is remote, the object must have a landmark in its inventory with the teleport agent script. lm_name refers to the name of the landmark in inventory. This function cannot be used in a script in an object attached using llAttachToAvatarTemp.
** llTeleportAgentGlobalCoords(key avatar, vector global_coordinates, vector region_coordinates, vector look_at) -- Teleports an agent to region_coordinates within a region at the specified global_coordinates. The agent lands facing the position defined by look_at local coordinates. A region's global coordinates can be retrieved using llRequestSimulatorData(region_name, DATA_SIM_POS). This function cannot be used in a script in an object attached using llAttachToAvatarTemp.
* NOTES:
** The new LSL functions work with the current runtime permissions system and are precursor to future work with experience permissions. More information about the runtime permission is here: PERMISSION_TELEPORT.
** These functions only work on the RC regions and not grid wide.
** These functions have an on/off switch. The release to RC has the functions disabled by default.
* Bug Fixes
** : llTeleportAgent() does not fail gracefully when specifying an invalid landmark name
** : Magnum RC, llTeleportAgent gives a wrong message
** : llTeleportAgent always points in the positive Y direction on teleport
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.07.03.261171
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is the Pathfinding Project.
** Details are here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding
** Pathfinding viewer here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#Pathfinding
* Features and Changes
** Havok's AI library has been added so that navigation meta data for an entire region can be computed. This data is called the "navmesh".
** SL objects can be turned into "characters" which use the navmesh to navigate the world and avoid obstacles.
*** New LSL calls have been added to create/update/delete character behavior.
*** Characters cannot be used as attachments.
*** Characters are incompatible with some features, such as keyframed motion, being used as attachments, phantom, size changes, and others.
** Not all objects in the world contribute to the navmesh calculations.
*** The terrain always contributes
*** By default objects are ignored for the navmesh calculations.
*** Objects may be flagged to modify the navmesh calculations in one of 4 ways:
**** "Walkable" objects add navigable zones to the navmesh.
**** "Static Obstacle" objects cannot be navigated, and create a hole in the nav mesh
**** "Exclusion Volume" objects are like static obstacles, except that they are phantom (meaning that pathfinding characters cannot move through them but other physical objects and avatars can)
**** "Material Volume" objects are phantom objects that can be set to change the walkability coefficients of an area of the navmesh
**** Material volumes and walkable objects have 4 walkability coefficients to determine how expensive they are for each category of character
*** Objects that contribute to the navmesh have special restrictions:
**** Objects that contribute to the navmesh cannot change their physical shape via LSL script (changing object position, shape parameters, scale, rotation, physics shape type, and linking/unlinking is generally blocked)
**** Objects that contribute to the navmesh can be physically changed via the build tool by avatars who have modify permission and if the avatar is in the same region as the object.
**** In other words: objects that contribute to the navmesh cannot be physically changed by avatars who are located in a different region than the object, and therefore such objects cannot be moved across region boundaries.
*** When the navmesh has been modified, either because the terrain has been edited or because an object contributing to the nav mesh was rezzed/modified/deleted, it must be manually regenerated.
*** The pathfinding project viewer can be used to modify the pathfinding settings in a region: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers#Pathfinding 
*** Parcels that are set No-Entry for objects will cut the navmesh at their borders -- characters will not be able to navigate across it.
** The collision pipeline has been reorganized. This may affect avatar collisions/control, vehicle movement, and collision callbacks in LSL scripts.
** The terrain collision shape has been changed from a "heightfield" to a "mesh" to provide more efficient collisions, ray-trace, and navmesh computations.
*** This may change some collision details. In particular see the "Known Issues" list below.
*** When changing the terrain its visible appearance will update immediately, but its collision shape will not. 
*** The server will wait at least 10 seconds since the last change before computing the new shape, and the computation time may take several seconds.
*** Where there is a discrepancy between visible and colliding terrain shapes object and avatar collisions may appear incorrect.
** Fix for "llCastRay returns RCERR_CAST_TIME_EXCEEDED until the sim is rebooted"
** Avatars which are sitting on an object can no longer freeze it by selecting it, if they don't have permission to freeze it while standing.
** More details about pathfinding can be found at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding and its linked pages
* Changed prim accounting for legacy prims which use the new accounting system
** All legacy-style prims have their streaming cost capped at 1.0 (except for sculpts, which will be capped at 2.0). This provides the benefit of not penalizing prim-based creators for optimizing their content by opting into the new system and will make the streaming cost more reflective of the true network cost of the objects.
** Server cost will be adjusted to MIN{ (0.5*num_prims) + (0.25 * num_scripts), num_prims }. This preserves the current value for unscripted linksets and reduce the cost for linksets containing fewer than 2*num_prims scripts. It provides the benefit of rewarding creators for reducing the number of scripts in their objects.
* Fixed the following bugs since the 12.06.23.260473 Pathfinding RC
** Ground Sit in a pathfinding region causes appearance to not match real location
** Sim crossings by objects is broken
** Other internal bugfixes
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.07.06.261281
* PathFinding User Group right after this meeting.
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Server Beta User Group for July 12, 2012:
* [15:00] Kallista Destiny: Ave Oskar
* [15:00] Buckaroo Mu: Well, not yet - this is my old beta inventory :p I figured there were so many impressive chairs here, I should rez my own.
* [15:00] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny chuckles
* [15:00] Lares Carter: Hi Oskar :)
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: I donlt think that Oskar will be pleased
* [15:01] Homeless: I'm not sure if a throne larger than Oskar's is allowed LOL
* [15:01] Buckaroo Mu: uh oh
* [15:01] Yuzuru Jewell: How big!
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: oh my
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: what is that thing?
* [15:02] Kallista Destiny: ROFL
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: the wird thing about that is that I'm ok with it
* [15:02] Kallista Destiny: Looks vuagely chineese
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: but ADITI isn't
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: it might explode at any moment
* [15:02] Sigma Avro: too big for my saloon
* [15:03] Buckaroo Mu: In that case, I'll run for the crash protection box.
* [15:03] Grid Crash Protection Box: Buckaroo Mu, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: ohnoes!
* [15:03] Sigma Avro: haha
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I told you!
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: it exploded
* [15:03] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny laughs
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: the gods have been appeased
* [15:03] Buckaroo Mu: Glad I made it into the box on time
* [15:04] Kallista Destiny: Oskar and his god mode
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: wasn't me!
* [15:04] Homeless: lol... at least my case protected me from the shrapnel.
* [15:04] Buckaroo Mu: Thankfully, I still have a copy in Agni - 'cause that was no-copy
* [15:04] Kallista Destiny: Yeah, *sure*
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: welcome to ADITI everyone
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: ^_^
* [15:04] Grid Crash Protection Box: Buckaroo Mu, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [15:04] Motor Loon: Hey Oskar, and everybody
* [15:04] Homeless: Is the passwoed change update still broken?
* [15:04] Kallista Destiny: Have a chair Buckaroo
* [15:04] Sigma Avro: ctrl alt shift h
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: how is everyone doing?
* [15:05] Homeless: *password
* [15:05] Motor Loon: Pretty damn bad
* [15:05] Homeless: great
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: hi oskar
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: :-(
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: well the weather in Seattle is nice and I rode my chopper in
* [15:05] Latif Khalifa: hello
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so I'm focusing on the positives
* [15:05] Sigma Avro: fine tks. Hi !
* [15:05] Kallista Destiny: Speaking of passwords, the third commonest passweod found whe Yhaoos was crached was ... Password
* [15:05] Buckaroo Mu: oh come on really, chair.
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:05] Motor Loon: Didn't have you down as a biker Oskar °͜°
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: me?
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: Buckarr look from the direction you eant ot face
* [15:06] Motor Loon: "and I rode my chopper in"
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: I own 6 motorcycles
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: 5 of them are broken
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: and in varying states of disrepair
* [15:06] Motor Loon: hehe... mean you used them alot them
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: Oh I thought tht was you R-22
* [15:06] Motor Loon: good sign
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: u want to say u r not working on them?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: the only working one is a 1965 Ironhead chopper
* [15:06] Motor Loon: yeah can't kill those old beauties
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: she is a BEAST
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: she has an old school stretched chop
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: a sexy thing of beauty
* [15:07] Motor Loon: +1 for Oskar
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: but no one wants to here me talk about bikes for an hour
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I'm sure you all have Magnum complaints to level :-)
* [15:07] Motor Loon: I do °͜°
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we can talk later Motor
* [15:07] Motor Loon: well, I do that too
* [15:07] Homeless: especially with such a juicy list of releases
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: so yeah
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: wow
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: big week
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: lots of releases packed in
* [15:08] Motor Loon: sure was
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we got a bit behind because of the issues releasing the prebaked av texture project last week
* [15:08] Motor Loon: I named it "Hell week" a while back... seems it's spread alot around maingrid °͜°
* [15:08] Motor Loon: was as bad as I have feared though
* [15:08] Motor Loon: wasn't
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: the project made it out fine this Tuesday morning
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: there were no issues and it seems to be working fine
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: then we had the Wednesday morning RC rolls
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: all 3 with new code
* [15:09] Motor Loon: ..and a little "whoopsie!" for magnum hehe
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: the only issue was when we accidentally put the wrong version of pathfinding on magnum
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: we apologize for that
* [15:10] Motor Loon: atleast you saw it quickly
* [15:10] Kallista Destiny: the broken wone for 2 week ago?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it got noticed and fixed pretty quick
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it was a fixed version
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: so that was good
* [15:10] Kallista Destiny: Lol
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: most regions had it for less than an hour
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it just made more time for the release team
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: let's start with blue steel
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: this is a big maint-server
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: and the second Roll was very quick
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: there are a lot of bug fixes in there
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: we have a nice queue of fixes ready for the grid
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: but if we pack them all into one maint-server it'll take too long to test and release
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so we're making smaller maint-server releases
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: it helps speed up the testing process and there is a higher chance of it passing RC
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: so we can get the fixes out quicker
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: it's a tough balance actually
* [15:12] Motor Loon: I dont know for sure yet it's Blue Steel doing it... but today I've been testing many vehicles rezzed in Blue steel... and all of them, once crossing a simborder - would stop the avatar animations and revert to standard "sit" animation. Anyone else notice this?
* [15:12] Sigma Avro: ...test bug by bug, lol
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we do test each bug
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: but we bundle them into maint-server containers
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: known issue Motor
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I hadn't seen that Motor
* [15:13] Motor Loon: yeah arton?
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: but it only happens on certain sims
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: but I haven't ridden vehicles on bluesteelt oday
* [15:13] Motor Loon: it started happening yesterday... never seen it before then
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: theres a jira about it
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: so certain bluesteel sims have vehicle issues?
* [15:13] Sigma Avro: I had worst, but it is passed
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: which jira?
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: it cancels the camera too
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: and sit anims
* [15:13] Motor Loon: its real bad
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: yeah
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: but it's in rare places
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: which makes it hard to narrow down
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: I hate those
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: this would be a perfected opportunity to test some "choppers":)
* [15:14] Motor Loon: I saw it happening constantly in the sims around DEX on maingrid today... both bluesteel & mainchannel sims
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: a perfect*
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: BS and Main channel?
* [15:15] arton Rotaru: I'll lookup the jira
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: let me know when you find it Arton
* [15:15] Motor Loon: well, the vehicles was all rezzed in Bluesteel, but the stop anims also happens when it crossed between two mainchannel sims
* [15:15] Sigma Avro: I had SVC 8019
* [15:15] Sigma Avro: to avoid spam
* [15:15] Motor Loon: SVC-8019
* [15:15] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8019] roll restart normalisation time issues : can not cross region borders for a while , very slow restart at roll restart , no fetching on server channel- version https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8019
* [15:15] arton Rotaru: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7906
* [15:15] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7906] Rough border crossing in and out of the [Atlantic Crossing] region and the neighboring regions https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7906
* [15:15] Motor Loon: yeah I saw that happen too
* [15:16] Motor Loon: people were crashing on crossings for hours after the roll out
* [15:16] Sigma Avro: and pathbug 129 , terrible
* [15:16] Motor Loon: until it stabilized
* [15:16] Motor Loon: pathbug-129
* [15:16] Flame of Jira: [#PATHBUG-129] Vehicles, pathfinding, crossing regions in Agni: Computer out of control or other severe issues in Agni pathfinding enabled regions (Stopover issue) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-129
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: ok so the repro is rezzing the vehicle in BlueSteel then crossing to main channel
* [15:17] Sigma Avro: well, this is for motor. The ones I said are older, not sure if releveant
* [15:17] Motor Loon: I havent had a chance to test rezzing in another code... so can't say 100% it doesnt happen there too
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: hey maestro
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: it happens on main channel crossings only too
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: but only at certain locations
* [15:17] Latif Khalifa: heya Maestro :)
* [15:17] Sigma Avro: Hello Maestro
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: we're discussing bluesteel issues
* [15:18] Motor Loon: I've NEVER seen it happen before on my vehicles
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: SVC-8019 is known
* [15:18] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8019] roll restart normalisation time issues : can not cross region borders for a while , very slow restart at roll restart , no fetching on server channel- version https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8019
* [15:18] Motor Loon: had two customer reports about it too today, and never before
* [15:18] Rex Cronon: greetings
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: it has to do with region presence caching
* [15:18] Sigma Avro: ah
* [15:18] Motor Loon: anims stopping or crashing-in-crossing Oskar?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we're working on minimizing it
* [15:18] arton Rotaru: yeah, it's not vehicle specific, it's juts in rare locatoions
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: the no crossing for an hour issue
* [15:19] Motor Loon: ah
* [15:19] Motor Loon: yes
* [15:19] Rex Cronon: why just one hour?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: it's a caching issue
* [15:19] Motor Loon: well, atleast that stabilizes after a while
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: once the cache recaches it sees the neighbor
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: recache happens every hour
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: as I understand it
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: it is a new issue though
* [15:20] Sigma Avro: funny !
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: caused by some infrastructure changes
* [15:20] Rex Cronon: can't recaching be forced earlier?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: like I said, we're working n it
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: sometimes it's that easy, sometimes it isn't
* [15:21] Motor Loon: was there a jira for the anims & camera control stopping on crossings?
* [15:21] Motor Loon: its really a killer for my sailboats
* [15:21] arton Rotaru: yeah I posted it already
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: I don't know of one
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: Maestro?
* [15:21] arton Rotaru: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7906
* [15:21] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7906] Rough border crossing in and out of the [Atlantic Crossing] region and the neighboring regions https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7906
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: I don't recall any reproducible issues like that
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: maybe the title should call out failed anim / camera controls
* [15:22] Motor Loon: dont sound like the same to me Arton
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: well I think it is the same
* [15:22] Motor Loon: I'm talking consistant seeing animations stopping on every crossing between multiple sims
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: if you have a specifc repro for the failed anim/camera issue please file a specific jira for it
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: then Maestro can triage it :-)
* [15:23] Sigma Avro: sorry, but it describes quite <what I had in pathbug 129
* [15:23] Motor Loon: not just an "occiasional bad crossing"
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: occasional issues will get ignored by the development team
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: well read the comments over there
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: but if we can outline specific repros it is easier to get them to fix them
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: it happens every time on the sims affected
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: but it don't happen on EVERY sim
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: well, difficlut, because camera loss is when sited on vehicle
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: looks likle it needs mixed condtions for repro
* [15:24] Motor Loon: Ill play more with it
* [15:25] Motor Loon: did we whine about magnum "mesh vehicle walls" yet? °͜°
* [15:25] Motor Loon: I'm just kidding... I was expecting it to be worse ... so I'm ok with it
* [15:25] Rex Cronon: vechicle walls? u mean skin?
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: let's talk LeTigre enxt
* [15:25] arton Rotaru: there are some whinning already
* [15:26] Motor Loon: however... Oskar... anyway I can have the Region RolyPoly taken off magnum?
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: because it will be fast
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: that depends Motor
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: there is a catch
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: Maestro, what happens if he rolls off of PF?
* [15:26] Motor Loon: I'm developing mesh boats there, and I can't leave the sim on them °͜°
* [15:26] Maestro Linden: PATHBUG-156[c] Hacked mixed volumedetect linksets become non-phantom after the region is rolled back from pathfinding to a non-pathfinding version
* [15:26] Flame of Jira: Status 404
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: if there are no things like that then we can roll you off with no issues
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: if you have hacked objects like that
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: It's a mainland region
* [15:27] Sigma Avro: Yes, I could not observed it Maestro. You asked for it 2 weeks ago
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:27] Motor Loon: oh
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: So that may break your neighbor's stuff
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: that's the only problem with rolling back PF regions
* [15:27] Motor Loon: fuck the neighbors haha
* [15:28] Motor Loon: but yeah, I see the potential problem
* [15:28] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny gasps
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: :-(
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: yeah
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: Creator Tools
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: so hey LeTigre
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: deployed but disabled
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: lol yeah
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: that helps us get it released
* [15:28] Motor Loon: when are you planning to turn them on?
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: we will release it disabled
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: so it can more easily pass RC
* [15:29] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny chuckles
* [15:29] Motor Loon: but wont bugs hide then while in RC?
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: then in a week or so after it is everywhere we can enable it on an RC
* [15:29] Motor Loon: ah
* [15:29] Motor Loon: get it
* [15:29] Motor Loon: clevermonkey
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: it means if there are dramatic issues we can disable it in minutes
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: without a rollback
* [15:29] Lucia Nightfire: SCR-368 is already a pain imo
* [15:29] Flame of Jira: [#SCR-368] Requesting teleport permissions for yourself in an attached object creates a permissions dialog. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-368
* [15:29] Lucia Nightfire: I really wish it could not show up if the script was created by myself at least...
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: that would make sense
* [15:30] Sigma Avro: Actullay, these were teested only by LLs, right ?
* [15:31] Sigma Avro: build I mean
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: it could be possible for somebody to release free thing that r actually traps that start teleporting u like crazy
* [15:31] Sigma Avro: ...sport in sl
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: ok so that is LeTigre
* [15:32] Oskar LindenOskar Linden walks casually over to the Magnum section
* [15:32] Oskar LindenOskar Linden puts on his earmuffs
* [15:33] Oskar LindenOskar Linden peeks
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: so yeah Pathfinding is on Magnum
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: and I've read all the reports from the forums
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: the team is aware of them and is attempting repros
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: specific jiras with detailed repro steps is SUPER beneficial
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: that is a good practice in general
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: but will help a lot in this situation
* [15:34] Jonathan Yap: Does a PF character stop after the region is either rebooted or upgraded?
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: I don't know the specifics of PF functionality
* [15:35] Jonathan Yap: never mind, I should ask that at the next meeting
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: Maestro?
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: Genrally no Jonathan
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: Generally
* [15:36] Maestro Linden: characters should continue to move through a restart
* [15:37] Jonathan Yap: A few times a week I find my rat has stopped but no error event was triggered
* [15:37] Jonathan Yap: cannot really write a jira on that little information
* [15:37] Sigma Avro: no food ?
* [15:37] Buckaroo Mu: Smelled a cat?
* [15:37] Maestro Linden: Jonathan: could it be this? PATH-651[c] Pathfinding characters silently fail when crossing into a region with dynamic_pathfinding disabled
* [15:38] Rex Cronon: how can they continue what they were doing if they don't save state before restart?
* [15:38] Jonathan Yap: No, my character is operating in a flat parcel not moving into a different region
* [15:38] Sigma Avro: sorry for joke. I had characters that random walk, that stoped at the one month ago upgrade of PF in agni
* [15:38] Jonathan Yap: Nothing wrong with a good joke :)
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: oh, PFchaacters can cros sim borders now ?
* [15:40] Sigma Avro: never tried
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: so yeah, Magnum is probably going to have the most issues
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: we do know about the mesh region crossing issue
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: we're monitoring sims that have it happen a lot
* [15:41] arton Rotaru: so we won't see on main channel next week :p
* [15:41] Motor Loon: atleast we're being stopping at the border... instead of crashing or something
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: and preemptively moving them off or the neighbors on to Magnum
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: those issues will cease with a full grid deploy of PF
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: I am mostly concerned with vehicle performance issues
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: I don't want to promote code that makes vehicles perform worse
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: I need your help with the repros though
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: well my vehicles work almost as before, but I have to agree with soem, the performance isn't better, it's worst
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: I'm getting a strong impression that vehicle performance is worse, but I need quantifiable data
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: and thats kinda dissapointing
* [15:43] Motor Loon: I hear lots of problems with vehicles "dragging" on ground
* [15:43] arton Rotaru: falcon should know all about it
* [15:43] arton Rotaru: but he is to concerned about over all performance
* [15:43] Motor Loon: haven't had a chance to try it myself yet
* [15:44] Yuzuru Jewell: I heared some cars can't run on PF sim
* [15:44] Yuzuru Jewell: can't change gear on some vehicle.
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: Well, we have SVC-8048. I can't reproduce it so far, with the one vehicle that somebody gave me
* [15:44] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8048] vehicles being very iratic and jittery on magnum regions https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8048
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: any time we touch Havok there is the chance that phsyics performance will be different
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: yeah
* [15:45] Yuzuru Jewell: And car bumps on mesh seam.
* [15:45] Sigma Avro: worried about gorund vehicles only ?
* [15:45] Sigma Avro: *ground
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: ground vehicles seem the most affected
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: but would be cooler if the performance will be better than worse^^
* [15:45] Motor Loon: well, big difference between "different" and "broken" °͜°
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: but I worry about all negative changes in vehicle performance
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: broken can often be a personal perception
* [15:46] Motor Loon: true
* [15:46] Yuzuru Jewell: But other cars can run on PF.
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: also there are a LOT of poorly written vehicles in SL that use crazy hacks
* [15:46] arton Rotaru: mine run fine
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: a pitty I have no records of past performances
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it is hard to support hacks
* [15:47] Motor Loon: also true
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: Yes, there could be something about a certain vehicle's geometry or scripts which means that it doesn't work well on PF; that's why we need specific examples
* [15:47] Lucia Nightfire: the only issue I visually saw with vehicles in a magnum sb was the physics time was already 8 - 10x higher than normal before they were used
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: only difference I see so far is, the car junmps a little bit more
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:47] Yuzuru Jewell: on seam of mesh?
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: but only after it jumped itself before, you know
* [15:48] arton Rotaru: yes, the terrain mesh is a bit "rougher"
* [15:48] Sigma Avro: change of heightfield to mesh should improve. I dont understand it does worst
* [15:48] Sigma Avro: ah, rougher, ok
* [15:48] arton Rotaru: yeah. it's deffinitly worse
* [15:49] Yuzuru Jewell: Nyx said that Seam will be able to joint.
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: in 10 years maybe
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:49] Sigma Avro: or is it a question of that height is center of mesh ?
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: I wouldn't hold my breath on that one
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: nope
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: my cars run on ther wheels
* [15:50] xstorm Radek: :)
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: I wonder if some of the SVC-8048 symptoms are caused by people apply physical impulses downwards, for 'downforce'
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: I could see that triggering 'sinking'
* [15:51] xstorm Radek: that sounds to logical
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: reverse if flying
* [15:51] Motor Loon: the "fake downforce" is widely used for sure
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: *is
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: bad also
* [15:51] Rex Cronon: there r bullets that push things against the ground
* [15:52] xstorm Radek: that can do it
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: well, I'm asking in that jira; I know that 'fake downforce' is not recommended because it does bad things to the physics engine (and that gravity >1 should be used instead)
* [15:53] arton Rotaru: yep, but lots of older stuff won't have that
* [15:53] xstorm Radek: like the griefer nukes did back in 2006
* [15:53] xstorm Radek: taking down regions
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: alright we only have a few minutes left
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: is everyone ready for the weekend?
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: nope
* [15:54] arton Rotaru: more or less lol
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: you're all gonna run out and find awesome repros for the vehicle issues :-)
* [15:54] Motor Loon: they promise rain all weekend here
* [15:54] Buckaroo Mu: I have two old jira that I'd desperately like someone to take a look at eventually.
* [15:55] Buckaroo Mu: SCR-82 and SVC-5399 - they're both four years old, and have kinda just been ignored the whole time.
* [15:55] Flame of Jira: [#SCR-82] Behavior of moving_start() and moving_end() is inconsistent. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5399
* [15:55] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5399] llGetSunDirection() not accurate https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5399
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: ah sun direction
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: 2007^^
* [15:56] Sigma Avro: sun direction is a viewer side seting , right ?
* [15:56] Buckaroo Mu: No. Well, not entirely. It's used as an excuse, but sun direction was viewer-side BEFORe windlight, and llGetSunDirection worked just fine then.
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: alright guys I'm gonna call this meeting
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: please take your PF concerns to the PF meeting right after this
* [15:56] Jonathan Yap: Take care
* [15:56] Rex Cronon: tc oskar
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming out today
* [15:56] Buckaroo Mu: So, nothing then?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend
* [15:57] arton Rotaru: thx u2
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: tc everybody, and a nice day
* [15:57] Sigma Avro: Thanks Oskar and Maestro
* [15:57] Latif Khalifa: have nice weekend everyone
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: u2 oskar
* [15:57] Lares Carter: thanks for the meeting
* [15:57] Buckaroo Mu: Well shit. That was a wasted hour.
* [15:57] Yuzuru Jewell: see you.
* [15:57] Kallista Destiny: thanks oskar and maestro
* [15:57] Acheron Gloom: OSkar do you think you could throw me your kart sometime on main grid ;o?
* [15:57] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: 5399 is not easy to fix at all; the simulator would have to emulate the Windlight sun process (which is totally different than pre-windlight), and then it would have to read things like the climate settings for the estate, in order to report the right vector
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: sure acheron
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: just ping me
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: but if that were implemented, I suppose the sim would potentially be able to return more info like the fogginess of the region
* [15:58] Sigma Avro: SRC-82 looks wierd
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: I have to to go the next huddle - take care all!
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: see you there !
* [15:59] Buckaroo Mu: SRC-82 is not just wierd, it's contrary to how it's described. It's an utter failure. I wanted to demonstrate, but since it takes 24 hours for inventory to refresh, I don't have my stuff in this inventory yet.
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: alright everyone have a good weekend and thanks for coming