MMOX/Chat Logs/2009-2-19

* [16:00] Hermit Barber: Hello Whump :-)
* [16:00] Whump Linden: hey folks
* [16:00] Nebadon Izumi: hey Whump
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: and i didn't get a positive response from her
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: so
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: okay
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: whumps here
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: let's begin
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: video, w00t!
* [16:00] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [16:00] Hermit Barber: The beguine
* [16:00] Infinity Linden: whump has the equipment
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: we need to double check with the venue we can get a wire
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: we're also going to see if someone at the ietf can host our streams for us
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: bt if they can't
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: whump knows a service provider that cak
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: can
* [16:01] Hermit Barber: Ask the IETF team as they will be solving that problem for everyone.
* [16:01] Nebadon Izumi: is this going to be some form of multicast?
* [16:01] Nebadon Izumi: or a direct stream from 1 location?
* [16:01] Hermit Barber: Stream from 1 location to a server
* [16:01] Infinity Linden: right.. the problem is the IETF doesn't really do AV of meetings anymore
* [16:01] Saijanai Kuhn: that's what we're trying to figure out
* [16:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok so multicast then
* [16:02] Nebadon Izumi: its relaying?
* [16:02] Hermit Barber: Must or you will go insane
* [16:02] Infinity Linden: a couple years back they got widgified about having to have a camera in each room
* [16:02] Infinity Linden: and an operator
* [16:02] Infinity Linden: mmm... do we know a multicast solution that crosses ISP boundaries?
* [16:02] Nebadon Izumi: not a cheap one
* [16:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [16:03] Infinity Linden: yeah. that's what i ws afraid of
* [16:03] Bevan Whitfield: does someone own one?
* [16:03] Infinity Linden: so we should probably just assume a metric boatload of individiual streams
* [16:03] Nebadon Izumi: software solutions are sparse too
* [16:03] Nebadon Izumi: generally it requires some extra compression hardware
* [16:03] Mysterio Sinister: a fair amount of the remote participation at IETF seems to be via jabber IM - are you planning on feeding the Jabber stream from the meeting in-world?
* [16:03] Hermit Barber: Use Gstreamer at the convention.
* [16:03] Infinity Linden: and between the first and second meetings (assuming we have second)
* [16:04] Infinity Linden: we can make the solution more refined
* [16:04] Bevan Whitfield: so you are really looking at a RL event steamed in world
* [16:04] Infinity Linden: right... but i don't know if it's the usual case for jabber to be used in the meetings
* [16:04] Infinity Linden: right
* [16:04] Bevan Whitfield: k
* [16:04] Infinity Linden: at the very least we're going to get a stream out
* [16:05] Saijanai Kuhn: and for some kind of 2-way communication to go back to the meeting, be it chat, irc or what
* [16:05] Bevan Whitfield: we had our hands full with the European Parliament Iraq thing
* [16:05] Infinity Linden: but we definitely want to have a science fridayesque / metanomicsesque solution for getting comments / questions back in
* [16:05] Infinity Linden: also
* [16:05] Bevan Whitfield: ok so that's chatbridge with Chase
* [16:05] Infinity Linden: lemme fill everyone in on the "big concern"
* [16:05] Bevan Whitfield: but still not "real"
* [16:05] Juhjosh Hak: Anyone know how difficult to set up a reflector for an RTP stream using eg: Darwin Streaming Server?
* [16:06] Infinity Linden: the IETF has some explicit IPR disclosure policies
* [16:06] Nebadon Izumi: :( crashed
* [16:06] Hermit Barber: And feed that to a well connected server - ask Linden Labs to put a Mac OS X server up for the duration? - or a big *nix box running Linux? Or just bite the bullet, look for sponsors and/or pass the hat to rent a server for 200 people for the duration?
* [16:06] Brigantine Parx: Juhjosh: not hard
* [16:06] Juhjosh Hak: (to set up a "poor-man's multicast")
* [16:06] Bjorlyn Loon: wow at metanomicsesque, lol nice phrasing
* [16:06] Hermit Barber: Don't use jabber.
* [16:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya i was going to suggest Quicktime server
* [16:06] Bevan Whitfield: oh gosh the Mac linux peeps
* [16:06] Infinity Linden: and before they let anyone post to a list or speak at a meeting, they like to know that that person has read the "NOTEWELL" warning
* [16:06] Bevan Whitfield: nods
* [16:06] Hermit Barber: It doesn't have the controls. Use IRC.
* [16:06] Nebadon Izumi: but that can be expensive if you dont own a mac
* [16:06] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [16:06] Bevan Whitfield: IRC is so Web 2.0
* [16:07] Infinity Linden: well.. all the lindens have macs
* [16:07] Bevan Whitfield: or even Web 1.0
* [16:07] Infinity Linden: some have pcs
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: nice
* [16:07] Infinity Linden: but
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: the best way is hardware compression
* [16:07] Bevan Whitfield: hi Whump
* [16:07] Hermit Barber: I can set up a server if needed.
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: if yuou have Mpeg card
* [16:07] Whump Linden: sorry, dealing with side channel fires
* [16:07] Infinity Linden: the latest plan was to use whump's personal DV camera
* [16:07] Whump Linden: okay, I'm here.
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
* [16:07] Nebadon Izumi: Firewire?
* [16:08] Infinity Linden: (and... i'm guessing your mac book pro via firewire)
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya that would work
* [16:08] Hermit Barber: Not needed. Gstreamer on a laptop with a decent camera or capture card will work fine.
* [16:08] Infinity Linden: and point the QT Broadcaster to streamguys.com (or whomever)
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya but if the camera is already Firewire
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: why get a card
* [16:08] Infinity Linden: hermit. we're going with what we have right now
* [16:08] Hermit Barber: Nods
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: is it intel mac?
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: something fast?
* [16:08] Infinity Linden: up
* [16:08] Infinity Linden: yup
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: cool
* [16:08] Nebadon Izumi: that should be fine
* [16:09] Infinity Linden: though if it's too fast, i can bring my 1990's era RS/6000 to the event
* [16:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol
* [16:09] Hermit Barber: Oh lovely
* [16:09] Hermit Barber: AIX to tie your fingers in knots
* [16:09] Infinity Linden: so... SL land owners can set the parcel media stream to any published RTSP url
* [16:10] Bjorlyn Loon: Just for clarity Infinity, I have a couple of questions. Are there multiple meetings in multiple rooms wanted to be streamed inworld at the same time?
* [16:10] Hermit Barber: Or connect directlyu with any viewer.
* [16:10] Infinity Linden: but the exact settings we support are sort of escaping me at the moment
* [16:10] Hermit Barber: Which is even better
* [16:10] Infinity Linden: nope. it's just one meeting in one room
* [16:10] Bjorlyn Loon: okay that's a relief =)
* [16:10] Infinity Linden: (in the real world)
* [16:10] Nebadon Izumi: i have a 4 screen theatre setup on Wright Plaza
* [16:10] Nebadon Izumi: on OSG
* [16:10] Infinity Linden: in the virtual world... right we figured we would let anyone connect to the stream
* [16:10] Bevan Whitfield: the UN did it once -
* [16:11] Hermit Barber: Use H263-2000
* [16:11] Hermit Barber: And 96k sound.
* [16:11] Nebadon Izumi: your going to have to relay out though
* [16:11] Infinity Linden: so if you're in wright plaza, bueo! if you're in SL info island, again bueo!
* [16:11] Nebadon Izumi: to some kind of server from Whumps laptop
* [16:11] Nebadon Izumi: the pipe wont be fat enough
* [16:11] Infinity Linden: how does that work with the qwaq folk?
* [16:11] Nebadon Izumi: from the event
* [16:12] Infinity Linden: no... we're broadcasting from whump's laptop to a commercial stream mirror
* [16:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok perfect
* [16:12] Whump Linden: yes
* [16:12] Infinity Linden: that supposedly has a lot of bandwidth
* [16:12] Bevan Whitfield: O.o
* [16:12] Nebadon Izumi: sounds like thats solved
* [16:12] Nebadon Izumi: :)
* [16:12] Juhjosh Hak: Why H263? Compatibility? Lower CPU for realtime-encode than H264?
* [16:12] Whump Linden: so I think we are agreed on the solution, so we need to know how many streams we need?
* [16:12] Infinity Linden: and whump... you're going to use the same setup for the Ursala K Leguin event, right?
* [16:12] Whump Linden: Yes.
* [16:12] Hermit Barber: At least 100 I think.
* [16:12] Nebadon Izumi: i'll really only need 1
* [16:12] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 2
* [16:12] Infinity Linden: right... that's kind of the problem
* [16:13] Whump Linden: streamguys.com does 100 for $300
* [16:13] Infinity Linden: split the difference? say 51?
* [16:13] Nebadon Izumi: thats not bad
* [16:13] Nebadon Izumi: 100 is alot of data
* [16:13] Whump Linden: there are cheaper resellers, but they don't have a person I can call when things go south.
* [16:13] Hermit Barber: Why I thought it made sense to leech if we could.
* [16:13] Juhjosh Hak: Re: Qwaq folk... it's up in the air whether we'll have the necessary code working and released by this time.
* [16:13] Infinity Linden: eek
* [16:13] Juhjosh Hak: RTP/RTSP good, but we're focusing on H264.
* [16:14] Infinity Linden: mmm
* [16:14] Juhjosh Hak: (re: eek, yeah I know... just heard of htis meeting today).
* [16:14] Nebadon Izumi: thats just divx
* [16:14] Nebadon Izumi: right?
* [16:14] Infinity Linden: doesn't QTSS do H264?
* [16:14] Juhjosh Hak: No, H.264 is part of MPEG standard.
* [16:14] Juhjosh Hak: MPEG-4.
* [16:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats divx
* [16:14] Nebadon Izumi: same thing
* [16:14] Hermit Barber: I think you are going to have bandwidth issues at source and viewer.
* [16:14] Bjorlyn Loon: just for a point of reference, we recently have been pushing the envelope with 180 in world for Metanomics.
* [16:14] Saijanai Kuhn: prolly need to test
* [16:14] Infinity Linden: mmm. i thought H.264 was the container and signaling?
* [16:14] Juhjosh Hak: MPEG-4 == DIVX??
* [16:14] Infinity Linden: cool. good to know
* [16:14] Nebadon Izumi: h264 is good
* [16:15] Bjorlyn Loon: we ALWAYS push the envelope for Science Friday
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: thats what Youtube is using
* [16:15] Juhjosh Hak: Don't htink s.
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: divx can be h264
* [16:15] Juhjosh Hak: Don't think so.
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: it depends
* [16:15] Saijanai Kuhn: anyway to test this in the next week or so?
* [16:15] Bevan Whitfield: but max at 20 on the sim, right?
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: there are many variations
* [16:15] Infinity Linden: mmm... not for everything... youtube is still using the flash/on2 codecs
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: 90% is converted
* [16:15] Infinity Linden: but they're also doing mpeg4 containers
* [16:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant even find a youtube video that is not mp4 now
* [16:16] Nebadon Izumi: ive literally played 1000's here on this grid and osgrid
* [16:16] Juhjosh Hak: Sure, DIVX bought MainConcept last year, now they support H.264 (getting off-topic...)
* [16:16] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
* [16:16] Nebadon Izumi: semantics josh
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: uh. i have a long list of them from last year. i should try it again
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: but
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: anyway
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: in the SL architecture, the sim only provides the reference to the rtsp URL
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: streaming is direct to the client
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: so
* [16:16] Whump Linden: okay, if we use a H.264 stream, do I cut anyone out?
* [16:16] Infinity Linden: each client in-world needs their own stream
* [16:16] Saijanai Kuhn: would need one stream per sim, I think
* [16:17] Nebadon Izumi: shouldnt if its Quicktime compatible
* [16:17] Whump Linden: yes, the SL viewer uses Quicktime for medai.
* [16:17] Infinity Linden: nope. one stream per resident logged in who's hit the "play" buton
* [16:17] Nebadon Izumi: things like resolution and bit rate
* [16:17] Saijanai Kuhn: or does metanomics not relay
* [16:17] Nebadon Izumi: can make it not play here
* [16:17] Bjorlyn Loon: what infinity said
* [16:17] Bjorlyn Loon: and also one stream per resident on the website
* [16:17] Saijanai Kuhn: ah ick. more cumbersome
* [16:17] Hermit Barber: Right. And you can point Mplayer at the same stream and give it a hint with a framerate flag. Usually -fps 15
* [16:18] Bjorlyn Loon: since we mirror there
* [16:18] Whump Linden: quicktime broadcaster allows both MPEG-4 and H.264 video.
* [16:18] Infinity Linden: and again... we have no problem with anyone seeing the broadcast.
* [16:18] Infinity Linden: you don't have to agree to anything to watch it
* [16:18] Nebadon Izumi: h264 is more efficient
* [16:18] Hermit Barber: Sai: Not one stream per sim.
* [16:18] Hermit Barber: One stream per viewer.
* [16:18] Hermit Barber: THe sim just hands out the url
* [16:18] Saijanai Kuhn: no problem on your side, but groupies alone has several hundred members
* [16:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya true
* [16:18] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
* [16:18] Infinity Linden: but will all of them want to view it?
* [16:19] Saijanai Kuhn: likely not but...
* [16:19] Nebadon Izumi: not all can
* [16:19] Nebadon Izumi: probably
* [16:19] Bjorlyn Loon: I think you are going to need to expect 200
* [16:19] Infinity Linden: i wonder if there's a way to relay one of the stream's that's been relayed by streamgys?
* [16:19] Finrod Meriman: did you mention that there are IETF requirements for comments?
* [16:19] Infinity Linden: not yet
* [16:19] Hermit Barber: Potentially many. Especially if we tell them how to watch it with video and sound - even under *nix - using mplayer :)
* [16:19] X-Flight Device: - Wear or Attach to Fly ANYWHERE: All Go
* [16:19] Infinity Linden: we're geting to that
* [16:19] Bevan Whitfield: and between Metanomics, Rockcliffe and Bevan, that's 5000
* [16:19] Bjorlyn Loon: I may be able to help with that
* [16:20] Infinity Linden: well... we don't have budget for 5000
* [16:20] Bevan Whitfield: k
* [16:20] Bjorlyn Loon: when you get to the comments end
* [16:20] Whump Linden: Bjorlyn, do you have a bulk stream provider?
* [16:20] Bjorlyn Loon: no, our stuff is through slcn.tv
* [16:20] Infinity Linden: oh.. right... we're not married to streamguys.com
* [16:20] Whump Linden: yes, they are just an example
* [16:21] Infinity Linden: what does it cost to put bits across slcn.tv
* [16:21] Bjorlyn Loon: the limit with slcn.tv is 220 for Metanomics
* [16:21] Infinity Linden: (actually i thought metanomics == slcn.tv)
* [16:21] Whump Linden: who does slcn.tv multicast?
* [16:21] Bjorlyn Loon: I don't know, I would have to ask them, but I my guess is this wouldn't be their cup of tea
* [16:21] Whump Linden: there's a missing "'s" in there.
* [16:21] Infinity Linden: k.
* [16:21] Bjorlyn Loon: their own programming whump
* [16:22] Bjorlyn Loon: can someone drop me dates and times?
* [16:22] Bjorlyn Loon: sorry Im not up to speed.
* [16:22] Infinity Linden: umm... uh... tuesday, march 24th
* [16:22] Infinity Linden: 15:20 SLT
* [16:22] Infinity Linden: through 17:00 SLT
* [16:22] Whump Linden: is 5,000 a realistic number of streams we'd need?
* [16:22] Bjorlyn Loon: okay
* [16:22] Infinity Linden: (and for our qwaq friends... SLT is our vanity time zone.. it equals Pacific local time)
* [16:22] Bevan Whitfield: we are having the same pbl with the Virtual Worlds Best Practices in Education Annual Conference
* [16:23] Bjorlyn Loon: no, I really think you are talking more 200-300
* [16:23] Bjorlyn Loon: Whump
* [16:23] Whump Linden: okay
* [16:23] Mysterio Sinister: is the IETF going to provide an audio stream of their own for this?
* [16:23] Bevan Whitfield: we are looking at like 20,000
* [16:23] Bevan Whitfield: so
* [16:23] Infinity Linden: cool. i like those numbers better than 5k
* [16:23] Mysterio Sinister: that might be a fallback for some people
* [16:23] Infinity Linden: @mysterio. nope
* [16:23] Bjorlyn Loon: the real difference is whether you are going to also broadcast on the web
* [16:23] Infinity Linden: we're responsible for a as well as v
* [16:23] Hermit Barber: Could always get a free 30 day trial...
* [16:23] Juhjosh Hak: Funny coincidence... SLT is the same as Qwaq Central Time!
* [16:23] Infinity Linden: LOL
* [16:23] Bjorlyn Loon: Im not sure where Bevan is coming up with those numbers, maybe she can clarify
* [16:24] Bjorlyn Loon: 200-300 in world in SL. If you are doing other worlds, grid, or on website, may need more.
* [16:24] Infinity Linden: right. i think we want to do more than just SL
* [16:24] Nebadon Izumi: ya osgrid wont need many
* [16:24] Bevan Whitfield: just getting numbers from the people who are organizing this and we are working hard core on this
* [16:25] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 10-20 connections
* [16:25] Infinity Linden: but we have no firm idea who (outside the VW development community) would be interested in watching
* [16:25] Whump Linden: okay 300 SL, 20 to 50 OS Grid, how many does Qwaq need?
* [16:25] Juhjosh Hak: Qwaq will suck in one stream, and overlay-multicast it ourselves.
* [16:25] Bjorlyn Loon: so I can estimate in world, but hard to know how many people might be wanting to view on the web if that is provided. That depends on much broader audience estimates.
* [16:25] Infinity Linden: OOOO!!! that's COOL!
* [16:25] Saijanai Kuhn: is jealous
* [16:26] Whump Linden: sweet, Juhjosh.
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: is jealous
* [16:26] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [16:26] Juhjosh Hak: (blush)
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: sp
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: so
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: right
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: this isn't really a general interest kind of thing
* [16:26] Saijanai Kuhn: you forget the power of spam ;-)
* [16:26] Infinity Linden: so it's definitely a different audience than your average science friday event
* [16:27] Saijanai Kuhn: though I'll abstain if it causes problems
* [16:27] Infinity Linden: or even your average metanomics event
* [16:27] Whump Linden: I'm also hoping to hear from Mic Bowman at Intel. They may have solutions for us.
* [16:27] Finrod Meriman: i'm here
* [16:27] Whump Linden: ah!
* [16:27] Whump Linden: sorry
* [16:27] Infinity Linden: lol
* [16:27] Finrod Meriman: just lurking
* [16:27] Infinity Linden: forgot to mention...
* [16:27] Finrod Meriman: :-)
* [16:27] Finrod Meriman: what did you want help with?
* [16:27] Infinity Linden: hey whump... finrod is mic bowman
* [16:27] Nebadon Izumi: hey mic
* [16:28] Nebadon Izumi: how goes it bud
* [16:28] Bjorlyn Loon: so for Science Friday, they are inviting 1.25 million listeners each week, and we get 250 or so in SL. Just for reference.
* [16:28] Whump Linden: does Intel have any multicast capacity we could use?
* [16:28] Bjorlyn Loon: and its a much broader audience clearly
* [16:28] Finrod Meriman: we do... but its all inside our firewall
* [16:28] Finrod Meriman: i can check with the media guys to see what they have available
* [16:28] Whump Linden: thanks
* [16:28] Saijanai Kuhn: so INtel only needs 1 stream at least
* [16:29] Whump Linden: any IBMers here?
* [16:29] Infinity Linden: but... some of that 1.25E06 / 2.5E2 ratio comes from SL sim limitations
* [16:29] Finrod Meriman: well... i think we were only talking 5-10 anyway
* [16:29] Infinity Linden: zha was invited
* [16:29] Whump Linden: and she's not inworld at the moment
* [16:29] Infinity Linden: but we believe she might be spending quality time with her family at the moment
* [16:29] Infinity Linden: and her gmail presence says "at home and relaxing"
* [16:29] Whump Linden: kk
* [16:30] Saijanai Kuhn: sent yahoo IM but not response
* [16:30] Whump Linden: okay, IBM could probably get away with one stream and rebroadcasting it
* [16:30] Infinity Linden: okay... i think we have our solution down save for the stream count
* [16:30] Whump Linden: and I would guess that we could do that here at the Lab.
* [16:30] Bjorlyn Loon: Infinity, would you like me to address how we might handle the Notewell requirement if it were Metanomics?
* [16:30] Nebadon Izumi: if we can get a blueprint for that
* [16:30] Infinity Linden: in the interest of alacrity.. let's move on
* [16:30] Nebadon Izumi: i could probably set something up too
* [16:30] Infinity Linden: please!
* [16:31] Infinity Linden: er... yes, please, bjorlyn
* [16:31] Whump Linden: So, can folks who need a stream, please get back to me at whump@lindenlab.com by friday with the number of streams you will need?
* [16:31] Bjorlyn Loon: So we have an event partner system, where chat is bridged across 6 sims, and onto the web.
* [16:31] Whump Linden: the multicast providers work fast once you give them a credit card.
* [16:32] Saijanai Kuhn: Wright Town has a similar system for IRC bridge I believe
* [16:32] Bjorlyn Loon: It would be possible to post the notewell text to chat within that system, put it up as signage, and drop a notecard of it to anyone attending, with a great deal of confidence that one of those methods would reach any participant at those locations.
* [16:32] Infinity Linden: cool.
* [16:32] Hermit Barber: Wump/Infinity - This might be helpful: 
* [16:32] Infinity Linden: last night i was thinking we may require a click-through
* [16:33] Whump Linden: thanks Hermit, bookmarking
* [16:33] Bjorlyn Loon: If you wanted a tighter level of control, you could restrict questions to those logged on a website, with log in required through an acceptance screen, similar to a terms of service acceptance.
* [16:33] Bjorlyn Loon: but I think that's overkill
* [16:33] Infinity Linden: lemme talk to my IETF superiors and see hat they think
* [16:33] Infinity Linden: i have a feeling the answer might be different depending on whom i ask
* [16:33] Bjorlyn Loon: we handle questions through a live person, who culls the question from the multilocation chat and passes those on to someone at the live end,
* [16:34] Whump Linden: yes, I think a chat moderator is a good idea
* [16:34] Infinity Linden: right. at the meeting, barry leiba and i will be chairing
* [16:34] Infinity Linden: zha would make an excelent secretary or moderator
* [16:34] Finrod Meriman: would the "moderator" be sufficient to address the IPR?
* [16:34] Bjorlyn Loon: so the other option there, is that when a comment or question is culled and passed to rl, that the person is asked whether they have read the required text and it is only passed on if they answer yes
* [16:34] Infinity Linden: i don't think so
* [16:34] Saijanai Kuhn: click through moderator...
* [16:34] Infinity Linden: ohoh
* [16:35] Whump Linden: oh oh?
* [16:35] Bevan Whitfield: so sorry modem is flickering so if i crash :-(
* [16:35] Bjorlyn Loon: so you could have a rl person sitting in the room, and our person sitting in SL
* [16:35] Infinity Linden: that could be done, thought it might require the moderator to be sending a lot of "have you read the notewell?" questions
* [16:35] Saijanai Kuhn: I suspect that's close to what IETF does for IRC contributions
* [16:35] Infinity Linden: kk bev
* [16:35] Bjorlyn Loon: the check for compliance gets done at our end, the person on the real life end doesnt have to check
* [16:36] Whump Linden: will any disclosures be needed?
* [16:36] Infinity Linden: right.. but i'm not sure you get IRC in f2f meetings
* [16:36] Infinity Linden: not by default or custom
* [16:36] Bevan Whitfield: just do skype vs irc
* [16:36] Saijanai Kuhn: seems to me I heard something about that being done
* [16:36] Whump Linden: "Hi I'm Joe Avtar, Jane Smith of TIC, and I've read the NOTEWELL."
* [16:36] Bjorlyn Loon: we handle the passing of questions from question culler to moderator/host via skype
* [16:36] Bjorlyn Loon: it isnt visible to the other participants
* [16:36] Whump Linden: ah
* [16:37] Bjorlyn Loon: they just comment or question in local chat
* [16:37] Infinity Linden: kk. i see. so a firewall between the "real" chat and the moderator
* [16:37] Bjorlyn Loon: the Q&A person pulls relevant comments/questions from the chat, passes those to moderator/host
* [16:37] Bjorlyn Loon: through skype
* [16:37] Finrod Meriman: and i'm assuming local chat is not subject to the IETF limitations
* [16:37] Finrod Meriman: only if it gets passed through to the RL meeting
* [16:37] Infinity Linden: mmm.. sounds kinda like what they used to do on this one NPR show...
* [16:38] Bjorlyn Loon: lol Infinity, yeah
* [16:38] Infinity Linden: trying to remember what it ws (not SciFri...) they had blogger in chief who would come on a couple times during the hour to ask questions
* [16:38] Bjorlyn Loon: as I said, we can use chatbridge and event partner locations to assure that all have seen the document in some form
* [16:38] Whump Linden: yes, lots of shows do that with a producer
* [16:38] Hermit Barber: I like the approach of setting up a general discussion where everyone has voice and a number of moderators have silencing/ejecting/banning powers. Then have a seperate channel for formal questions and moderators who will work only the moderated channel where anyone can listen but the floor is passed out by the moderators. That way you don't drown the moderators and everyone can see that the moderators are being fair and honest.
* [16:39] Infinity Linden: right. so if we want to do in world chat, we could go with the spam everyone in the 6 sims with notewell cards
* [16:39] Hermit Barber: Bjorley: Can also use a simple bot to do it.
* [16:39] Saijanai Kuhn: how will this local chatbridge work for OpenSIm and Qwaq?
* [16:39] Infinity Linden: of we needed to do "absolute positive assurance" peeps have read the notewell, it would be interactino through a web based thingie
* [16:39] Nebadon Izumi: rofl my chair got returned
* [16:39] Nebadon Izumi: doh
* [16:39] Infinity Linden: LOL
* [16:39] Bjorlyn Loon: but if you are going to allow any location to view, clearly you can't moderate monitor local chat at all streaming locations, because you wont even know where they are.
* [16:39] Infinity Linden: sorry about htat
* [16:39] Nebadon Izumi: no problem
* [16:40] Bjorlyn Loon: I think you are talking about three levels. Level 1 is listen and view, not participate in chat. "View anywhere"
* [16:41] Whump Linden: okay, chatbridge to ask the meeting questions, and one big IRC channel crossworld?
* [16:41] Bjorlyn Loon: Level 2 is viewing at an event partner location, that has provided services regarding the disclosure. "View at Event Partner"
* [16:41] Saijanai Kuhn: what is the issue with getting chatbridge to/from a webpage?
* [16:41] Infinity Linden: but right. the metanomics solution doesn't speak to the requirement that OSGrid peeps be able to sk questions
* [16:41] Saijanai Kuhn: seems to me that something could be worked out using the web interface for Croquet and OpenSIm
* [16:41] Bjorlyn Loon: Level 3 is Viewing on Website, where you can actually require people to sign that they have read it.
* [16:42] Hermit Barber: Infinity: When a person enters the channel they are told to message the bot and accept the conditions. That can be mandated before talking. Same goes for bridge users. Simply have the chat bridge ask mySQL if they have already agreed and if so then pass them forward. If not ask for acceptance before forwarding their chat.
* [16:42] Juhjosh Hak: I'm not too familar with the chat issues. Is "chatbridge" something that we could potentially interoperate with?
* [16:42] Infinity Linden: cause the web page would put SL peeps and OSGrid peeps on a level playing field
* [16:42] Infinity Linden: which
* [16:42] Bjorlyn Loon: We do the interface to the website every week Saijanai. Nothing new is required.
* [16:42] Infinity Linden: given the subject matter may be an important symbolic gesture
* [16:42] Saijanai Kuhn: right but for Croquet and OpenSIm, Bjorlyn
* [16:42] Nebadon Izumi: ya what about this IBM solution that bridges talking between SL and OpenSIM
* [16:42] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone tried that yet?
* [16:42] Juhjosh Hak: As Saijanai says, if worst comes to worst, we could use a web-based chat.
* [16:42] Nebadon Izumi: i only breifly heard about it
* [16:42] Bjorlyn Loon: But if you do the website interface, I cant estimate the additional cost for bandwidth.
* [16:42] Infinity Linden: kk
* [16:42] Hermit Barber: So one tiny database, a bot on the IRC server and a distributable in world bridge.
* [16:42] Mysterio Sinister: web page seems best for submitting questions/comments
* [16:43] Finrod Meriman: the Opensim/SL chat has some limitations... names must match etc...
* [16:43] Bjorlyn Loon: Chatbridge shows up on the web including all the local chat from all 6 locations, and all chat from the web is mirrored back to all 6 locations in world.
* [16:43] Infinity Linden: yeah. i'm sorta leaning towards the web page too...
* [16:43] Juhjosh Hak: Bandwidth costs for text?
* [16:43] Infinity Linden: ohoh... we found out it's okay to be pseudonymous
* [16:43] Bjorlyn Loon: no Juhjosh, but the video is on the web page also
* [16:43] Infinity Linden: as long as you're not submitting a draft
* [16:43] Morgaine Dinova: Will there be a transcript of this session posted? Only just arrived.
* [16:43] Hermit Barber: Mysterio: IRC has very high bandwidth. Webservers don't do so well unless you pay a lot of money.
* [16:43] Infinity Linden: and you divulge all pertinant IPR
* [16:44] Bjorlyn Loon: so you are seeing the video and participating in chat on the same page.
* [16:44] Infinity Linden: pertinant? pertinent?
* [16:44] Nebadon Izumi: 
* [16:44] Nebadon Izumi: this
* [16:44] Infinity Linden: sp?
* [16:44] Juhjosh Hak: Oh, sorry. I see.
* [16:44] Nebadon Izumi: anyone tried this yet?
* [16:44] Nebadon Izumi: i have not
* [16:44] Infinity Linden: mmm... we could get an EC2 instance
* [16:44] Infinity Linden: they seem to have a fair bit of bandwidth
* [16:44] Hermit Barber: Heh
* [16:44] Finrod Meriman: nebadon: i went through the setup... i think its still standalone only???
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: ah dang
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: thanks
* [16:45] Infinity Linden: well.. we're getting a lot of good use cases anyway
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: maybe Osgrid could setup a HG region
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: for this event
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: everyone just HG's to the standalone
* [16:45] Nebadon Izumi: ?
* [16:45] Saijanai Kuhn: re: usecase... this seems like a good meta-dogfood thing for virtual worlds interop
* [16:46] Infinity Linden: but... don't take this the wrong way... can a HG'd OpenSim instance handle the load?
* [16:46] Brigantine Parx: neb: i (coyled) would be willing to pony up for an EC2 instance for osgrid for this.
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: sure
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: if i set it up it would
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: you need to have some expereience running OpenSIm
* [16:46] Juhjosh Hak: Thanks for "Parallel Selves" link.
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: but yes it should hold up
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can work with Diva and Bluewall
* [16:46] Nebadon Izumi: see if we can make that work
* [16:46] Infinity Linden: are you talking about four OpenSim regions adjacent to each other?
* [16:47] Whump Linden: okay, we've looped in SL and OS Grid, what about the others?
* [16:47] Nebadon Izumi: i think its possible
* [16:47] Nebadon Izumi: we have several grids and standalones HG'd to osgrid already
* [16:47] Infinity Linden: well. okay. i'm really an OpenSim novice
* [16:47] Nebadon Izumi: some are Multiple instance
* [16:47] Morgaine Dinova: accepted your inventory offer.
* [16:47] Finrod Meriman: worst case for me... we'll hypergrid over to osgrid
* [16:47] Infinity Linden: so i won't display my ignorance by telling you what OSGrid can and can't do
* [16:47] Nebadon Izumi: ya i think we can get past this
* [16:47] Infinity Linden: cool
* [16:47] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say im a HG expert
* [16:48] Nebadon Izumi: but there are many using
* [16:48] Whump Linden: and my build is way out of date
* [16:48] Bevan Whitfield: I have a grid but it won't be ready but have tons of other stuff
* [16:48] Finrod Meriman: well... you can always use scisim... :-)
* [16:48] Infinity Linden: okay.. qwaq folk.. how bout you?
* [16:49] Saijanai Kuhn: So SL and OpenSim can do variations of the chatbridge... but qwaq/croquet?
* [16:49] Infinity Linden: do you have an inworld chat bridging thingie?
* [16:49] Juhjosh Hak: No, we don't have chat interop.
* [16:49] Saijanai Kuhn: irc?
* [16:49] Mysterio Sinister: Jabber for the OpenCroquet/Cobalt
* [16:49] Infinity Linden: again... if we put all the text chatter on a web page... we would all be on an even playing field
* [16:49] Whump Linden: qwaq is based on croquet, correct? (there was email from earlier that I didn't read closely.)
* [16:49] Infinity Linden: yup
* [16:49] Juhjosh Hak: We have ways of viewing external apps in-world...
* [16:49] Bevan Whitfield: yes
* [16:50] Saijanai Kuhn: would need the chatbridge I/O protocol for the webpage to see if croquet can hook up
* [16:50] Hermit Barber: On a pathetic low bandwidth page.
* [16:50] Juhjosh Hak: are there standalone 2-d apps we could use?
* [16:50] Saijanai Kuhn: or just have the squeak browser do it...
* [16:50] Infinity Linden: well.. there's this IIM protocol that linden uses...
* [16:50] Hermit Barber: But if we put an IRC window up on a web page, lamerz who can't IRC could still access the system :-O
* [16:50] Infinity Linden: (that was a joke, btw, IIM is "sub optimal" for this use)
* [16:51] Mysterio Sinister: the web page would let people watching the stream ewithout being in a world participate to
* [16:51] Juhjosh Hak: Yes, Qwaq is based on Croquet, although Mysterio and friends have done more with chat than we have.
* [16:51] Infinity Linden: bevan or bjorlyn ... one of you mentioned a web chat system?
* [16:51] Infinity Linden: was that based on javascript in a browser
* [16:51] Infinity Linden: ?
* [16:51] Infinity Linden: or a java applet?
* [16:51] Juhjosh Hak: Web would be fine except:
* [16:52] Juhjosh Hak: 1) don't want to waste bandwidth unnecessarily
* [16:52] Infinity Linden: remembers the days when you could get javascript inside a window in nanocosm
* [16:52] Bjorlyn Loon: sorry about that
* [16:52] Hermit Barber: Infinity: We can trivially have IRC over the web - I have been doing that since the 90s.
* [16:52] Brigantine Parx: if this is going to be relayed over IRC, you could use a web-based IRC client, e.g. mibbit.com
* [16:52] Juhjosh Hak: 2) the "eat our dogfood" argument
* [16:52] Hermit Barber: And we have good IRC=SL
* [16:52] Infinity Linden: okay... that's why i couldn't see you
* [16:52] Infinity Linden: lemme repeat a question
* [16:52] Hermit Barber: And there are good IRC bots and managers.
* [16:52] Bjorlyn Loon: yeah I was going to bring that up, Juhjosh. If you require that people be on the web, with video along side the web chat, and they are also inworld, that is two streams each.
* [16:52] Infinity Linden: bevan or bjorlyn ... one of you mentioned a web chat system?
* [16:52] Infinity Linden: was that based on javascript in a browser
* [16:53] Infinity Linden: or a java applet?
* [16:53] Juhjosh Hak: If there's IRC to SL, then we can just use an external IRC client.
* [16:53] Infinity Linden: mmm. i don't think we have an IRC <-> IIM bridge
* [16:53] Mysterio Sinister: there is IRC to SL - the guys in WHAT sim use that all the time
* [16:53] Saijanai Kuhn: there's a irc bot that can relay to sl and from there to the web page
* [16:53] Infinity Linden: though the concept is kinda nice
* [16:54] Whump Linden: okay, question to everyone then: is IRC, with bridges to all the worlds, okay?
* [16:54] Bjorlyn Loon: I think you guys are overthinking this for a 2 hour program
* [16:54] Infinity Linden: LOL
* [16:54] Mysterio Sinister: I do too
* [16:54] Whump Linden: +1 Bjorlyn
* [16:54] Saijanai Kuhn: yeah, but we like to chatter in SL
* [16:54] Infinity Linden: LOL
* [16:54] Whump Linden: and we love our bikesheds
* [16:54] Bjorlyn Loon: no, it is really interesting, dont get me wrong
* [16:54] Morgaine Dinova: This pushes the envelope nicely, so the more over-engineering the better :-)
* [16:54] Saijanai Kuhn: well we can look at this is the protype for future meetings too
* [16:55] Hermit Barber: Here is web to IRC with SL bridges and mySQL logs
* [16:55] Infinity Linden: well.. i'm hoping this also convinces the IETF to put a web cam back into each of the meting rooms at the next f2f meeting
* [16:55] Infinity Linden: so i kinda want it to go well
* [16:55] Hermit Barber: 
* [16:55] Bjorlyn Loon: from a marketing perspective, one reason that we dont do a lot of this for Metanomics is that if you dont do it well, it is a big problem
* [16:55] Mysterio Sinister: if you go with IRC, talk to the W-HAT goons in WHAT sim - their IRC relay posts a disclaimer as soon as you visit the sim
* [16:55] Saijanai Kuhn: if we do it right, we could make a case that mmox should be part of every meeting ;-)
* [16:55] Hermit Barber: That is using Mibbit
* [16:55] Whump Linden: there has been trouble with IRC bridges between OS Grid and freenode.net, though, I thought freenode not happy
* [16:56] Mysterio Sinister: and we could do an IRC->Jabber relay of we had to for Croquet/Cobalt
* [16:56] Bjorlyn Loon: I think Infinity, that if you are hoping to convince IETF, you will want to go with known and well tested systems
* [16:56] Infinity Linden: right. and i really don't want anyone to be able to say.. "those friggin SL peeps made it all SL centric"
* [16:56] Bjorlyn Loon: just my two cents
* [16:56] Infinity Linden: cause i'd also like to get the dreamland guys inovlved too
* [16:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats what i suggested earlier to infinity
* [16:56] Nebadon Izumi: some kind of jabber to irc
* [16:56] Brigantine Parx: the IRC<->opensim bridge has gotten the occasional kline from freenode. but that can be worked around.
* [16:56] Nebadon Izumi: i spent about 4 seconds on google and found solutions
* [16:56] Infinity Linden: @bjorlyn.. good point
* [16:57] Bjorlyn Loon: because people who show up somewhere and it doesnt work, you end up with unhappy campers, and no matter now many happy campers there are...
* [16:57] Morgaine Dinova: Wonderland / Project Darkstar?
* [16:57] Whump Linden: yes, it's not rocket science to do SL to IRC
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: and yes
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: ive been banned from Freenode 12 times now
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: due to the OpenSIM IRC relay
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: somethings wrong
* [16:57] Infinity Linden: right. but remember we have the requirement that some degree of informed consent re: NOTEWELL be given before peeps start chattin'
* [16:57] Bevan Whitfield: dang I used to teach IRC at the VW Uni
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: we have not had time to fix it
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: but this might be a good reason to
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: Zha did most of the IRC relay
* [16:57] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall
* [16:57] Bjorlyn Loon: So how would you handle the moderation issue for IRC, Whump?
* [16:57] Morgaine Dinova: Neb: banned for what reason? What went wrong?
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: it trys to reconnect
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: over and over
* [16:58] Morgaine Dinova: Aha
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: they consider it hammering
* [16:58] Bjorlyn Loon: and what percentage of potential viewers would have IRC? or would it be a required download?
* [16:58] Infinity Linden: k. glad it wasn't for griefing
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: its actually a server mod
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: in opensim
* [16:58] Infinity Linden: lol. we can get them to download a custom squeak image with the IRC morph active and preconfigured
* [16:58] Nebadon Izumi: open chat relays to IRC
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: its actually very good
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: when your not banned
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: Whump has used it
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: on Wright Plaza tuesday meeting
* [16:59] Bevan Whitfield: Please excuse me, but I must attend the Rockcliffe University conference in 2 min.
* [16:59] Saijanai Kuhn: is there still an irc channel for the bot to/from Wright Plaza?
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: i can enable it
* [16:59] Infinity Linden: k
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: but we get banned
* [16:59] Infinity Linden: thx bevan
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: i could turn it on for 24 hours
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: without risk thougfh
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: i could also Contact freenode and ask them to not ban me
* [16:59] Infinity Linden: i think it's time to call it the meeting cooked
* [16:59] Saijanai Kuhn: could be something for everyone to test interacting with
* [16:59] Nebadon Izumi: if they are prepared they wont ban me
* [16:59] Infinity Linden: we've got enough to get us going
* [16:59] Infinity Linden: and honestly
* [17:00] Nebadon Izumi: they are very cool, they have actually contacted me several times
* [17:00] Nebadon Izumi: to find out if we fixed it yet
* [17:00] Infinity Linden: i should chat with my IETF peoples abotu how strict they are on NOTEWELL notification
* [17:00] Morgaine Dinova: Excellent, Neb
* [17:00] Whump Linden: okay, next actions
* [17:00] Whump Linden: Infinity: what you said above
* [17:00] Whump Linden: Everyone: get me your requirements for streams by friday.
* [17:00] Infinity Linden: and whump... you wanna play with the video stuff before the UKL event?
* [17:00] Nebadon Izumi: will do whump
* [17:01] Nebadon Izumi: either charles or myself will contact you
* [17:01] Whump Linden: Infinity, yes, I'm getting a test account from streamguys and have the camera inhand.
* [17:01] Infinity Linden: OSSM
* [17:01] Whump Linden: Need a small connector firewire cable, but will visit Fry's tonight
* [17:02] Whump Linden: we lost Bjorlyn
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: that should produce very good quality
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: much higher than a web cam
* [17:02] Whump Linden: yes
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: will you also tape it?
* [17:02] Whump Linden: Nebadon, QT Broadcaster will dump to disc, yes.
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: sweet
* [17:02] Infinity Linden: i was planning on it
* [17:02] Infinity Linden: (taping it, that is)
* [17:02] Saijanai Kuhn: So nebadon can activate teh IRC bridge bot and let others test how they interact with it say, via SL bot/Qwaq?
* [17:02] Whump Linden: Hi Bjorlyn, we were going through action items.
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: whump
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: tape it too
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: just incase
* [17:02] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
* [17:03] Whump Linden: yes
* [17:03] Bjorlyn Loon: sorry bout that, I downloaded the new version of skype and it clearly doesnt like SL
* [17:03] Infinity Linden: it would be teh ossm if we could sync chat logs with video
* [17:03] Infinity Linden: but i'm not gonna push the technology too hard
* [17:03] Nebadon Izumi: lol
* [17:03] Saijanai Kuhn: That's a metanomics thing for sure
* [17:03] Nebadon Izumi: well if you can keep the chat log
* [17:03] Nebadon Izumi: we could do post production
* [17:03] Nebadon Izumi: thats easy
* [17:03] Nebadon Izumi: talk to torley
* [17:03] Infinity Linden: "it's okay... we can fix it in post"
* [17:03] Whump Linden: yes, with IRC we'll have timestamps
* [17:04] Bjorlyn Loon: just to throw in an extra bit, Infinity
* [17:04] Infinity Linden: yay! extra bits!
* [17:04] Bjorlyn Loon: which might be nice for your appeal
* [17:04] Bjorlyn Loon: Metanomics is going to be simulcasting translations for the visually and hearing impaired starting Monday
* [17:04] Nebadon Izumi: nice
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: that
* [17:05] Bjorlyn Loon: it is very reasonable, would look good for Section 508 compliance for both LL and IETF
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: is
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: so
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: ossm
* [17:05] Juhjosh Hak: (sorry, side-channel question)... if there is an IRC bridge set up, I'll try it out.
* [17:05] Whump Linden: gods, if I had an extra camera and video mixing software I'd love to do that for the Le Guin reading
* [17:05] Bjorlyn Loon: so I can handle that for you, would cost under $100
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: well. we're not a government agency, so 508 might not apply
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: but
* [17:05] Morgaine Dinova: That's a good point, Bjorlyn
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: awd probably would
* [17:05] Whump Linden: but there are a lot of folks with disablities who use SL
* [17:05] Infinity Linden: unfortunately the last administration eviscerated it
* [17:05] Saijanai Kuhn: Juhjosh, Nebadon has teh irc bridgebot
* [17:06] Infinity Linden: right
* [17:06] Bjorlyn Loon: it looks good for any federal agencies who have participants attending however
* [17:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually Zha wrote it
* [17:06] Nebadon Izumi: from IBM
* [17:06] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, OK
* [17:06] Infinity Linden: bjorlyn
* [17:06] Infinity Linden: i'll pay the $100 if LL doesn't
* [17:06] Infinity Linden: so yeah. let's plan on it
* [17:06] Bjorlyn Loon: okay, Ill get that set up for you then
* [17:06] Juhjosh Hak: Can you point me at docs and/or IP address ?
* [17:07] Infinity Linden: but i'll talk to mike at freedom and see if he'll sponsor it
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: well its a OpenSIM module josh
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: its in our SVN
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: in the core
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: do you have contact with Zha?
* [17:07] Juhjosh Hak: We've met but aren't in contact.
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: i can give you their website
* [17:07] Nebadon Izumi: hang on
* [17:07] Juhjosh Hak: Sure.
* [17:08] Bjorlyn Loon: Morgaine's kitty is reminding me of the two blue screens I just had *covers eyes*
* [17:08] Nebadon Izumi: 
* [17:08] Juhjosh Hak: I didn't realize that you were talking about us integrating the bridge into our codebase...
* [17:08] Nebadon Izumi: well that would be up to you
* [17:08] Nebadon Izumi: but its fully open and available to look at
* [17:08] Morgaine Dinova: purrs at Bjorlyn
* [17:08] Nebadon Izumi: its BSD
* [17:08] Nebadon Izumi: no restrictions
* [17:08] Juhjosh Hak: I understood that *someone* would have an IRC server that we could use with a regular IRC client,
* [17:08] Infinity Linden: @bjorlyn... yup. 508 wil definitely make it interesting to a number of govt types... as well as my old patrons at Kyushu Inst. of Tech
* [17:08] Juhjosh Hak: that would bridge into SL.
* [17:08] Infinity Linden: (aso cement)
* [17:09] Nebadon Izumi: that I dont know Josh
* [17:09] Saijanai Kuhn: THere's also a micro python client with Apache V2 license if you guys need insight into SL innards
* [17:09] Juhjosh Hak: OK, my misunderstanding.
* [17:09] Nebadon Izumi: but anyway
* [17:09] Nebadon Izumi: i would talk To Zha
* [17:09] Whump Linden: okay, anything else that is not decided?
* [17:09] Nebadon Izumi: they can help regardless
* [17:09] Infinity Linden: sounds like we have a few things open, but we know what they are
* [17:10] Brigantine Parx: well if you're looking for an IRC server/channel, an IETF BOF channel is something freenode and/or oftc could host.
* [17:10] Mysterio Sinister: that would be perfect
* [17:10] Nebadon Izumi: does IETF already have a freenode channel?
* [17:10] Saijanai Kuhn: they have a non functional jabber
* [17:10] Saijanai Kuhn: crashes the mac IRC client
* [17:11] Mysterio Sinister: all the IETF sessions I was in last fall in minneapolis has jabber conferences
* [17:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya we should also do some kind of test run
* [17:11] Whump Linden: yes
* [17:11] Nebadon Izumi: we should not wait until the day of the event
* [17:11] Nebadon Izumi: to put this through the paces
* [17:11] Saijanai Kuhn: mmox@jabber.ietf.org
* [17:11] Whump Linden: I'll be testing the streaming setup as soon as I find the right cables
* [17:11] Morgaine Dinova: Do we have a source of the SL-IRC transponder object among us here, or do we have to do to WHAT sim to buy it?
* [17:12] Morgaine Dinova: to go* to
* [17:12] Mysterio Sinister: the W-HAT goons will propbably give it to you
* [17:12] Mysterio Sinister: if you ask nicely
* [17:12] Whump Linden: check xstreetsl.com?
* [17:12] Morgaine Dinova: KK, tnx
* [17:12] Whump Linden: After all, it's helping open multiple worlds for them to launch flying penni attacks on.
* [17:12] Morgaine Dinova: Ew Whump :-(
* [17:13] Nebadon Izumi: rofl
* [17:13] Morgaine Dinova: Well on that score, I guess someone should warn IETF that a thick skin might be needed.
* [17:13] Bjorlyn Loon: Is anyone working with G2 on reaction grid? I know they were doing a test with 80+avs recently?
* [17:13] Saijanai Kuhn: the metanomics sims are pretty tame
* [17:13] Infinity Linden: LOL. youve obvioulsy never been to an IETF meeting
* [17:13] Whump Linden: I'm going to have to make sure there's a CAP in the air for the Le Guin event.
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: hmm id be suprised if they got 80 avatars onto 1 sim
* [17:14] Bjorlyn Loon: what time is the LeGuin event, Whump? and how long?
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: not impossible i guess
* [17:14] Infinity Linden: i think the w-hat people will be begging for the greybeards to let up on em
* [17:14] Morgaine Dinova: Infinity: hahaha, good, it'll be fine then ^_^
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: but that is not something i have heard
* [17:14] Whump Linden: 3:30 to 5 pm SLT on Sat the 28th
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: they could be using the Load balancer
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: which is multiple simulators stacked
* [17:14] Nebadon Izumi: to appear as one
* [17:15] Nebadon Izumi: 3Di wrote that
* [17:15] Whump Linden: Patricia Paris and Franja Russell of the SciFi Portal are coordinating inworld.
* [17:15] Saijanai Kuhn: any possibility of providing a test stream form the UKL for OpenSim and Qwaq to work with?
* [17:16] Juhjosh Hak: That would be great.
* [17:16] Whump Linden: we've got 100 streams and need those for SL
* [17:16] Saijanai Kuhn: :-/
* [17:17] Bjorlyn Loon: So, for my part, we can offer to run both events on several of the Metanomics venues, with staffing, if you would like. Just let us know what we need to do. We need as much advance notice as possible to work with event partners and line up volunteers.
* [17:17] Juhjosh Hak: Someone mentioned recording the stream using QuciktimeBroadcaster...
* [17:17] Infinity Linden: what kind of cost are we talking about?
* [17:18] Nebadon Izumi: i also wonder how much delay there is going to be
* [17:18] Nebadon Izumi: its not going to be live
* [17:18] Juhjosh Hak: any chance of getting a recorded file of the test session?
* [17:18] Nebadon Izumi: there will probably be like 10 second lag
* [17:18] Morgaine Dinova: The network diagram alone of this is going to be interesting ^_^
* [17:18] Nebadon Izumi: maybe more under great load
* [17:19] Juhjosh Hak: Should be able to drop it into my own QTSS test-box.
* [17:19] Bjorlyn Loon: Something that you may also want to consider, given that you are all discussing the technical side, is that event management really is about staffing and logistics and marketing too. What makes Metanomics and Sci Fri events roll smoothly is good staffing and managment.
* [17:19] Nebadon Izumi: it could make quetsion difficult
* [17:19] Nebadon Izumi: questions
* [17:20] Hermit Barber: Oh, BTW, look at IRC working sweetly in OpenSim 
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: it works awesome Hermit
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: but it results in K-line bans
* [17:20] Morgaine Dinova: The management at the RL end is going to be key. Needless to say, the physical participants would get nothing done if this bombards them with questions and points, even if they're very sensible ones.
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: occasionaly
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: we need to fix it
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: i'll talk to Zha when i can
* [17:20] Nebadon Izumi: and file some mantis
* [17:21] Bjorlyn Loon: yeah Morgaine, I meant on the virtual end =)
* [17:21] Nebadon Izumi: its been very low priority on the list of things we are doing
* [17:21] Nebadon Izumi: time to step it up
* [17:21] Bjorlyn Loon: Is the IRC thing going to require general participants to do anything different than just speak in local chat?
* [17:21] Nebadon Izumi: nope
* [17:21] Whump Linden: yes, we'll need aggregation of questions in the pipeline
* [17:21] Infinity Linden: okay... i have to attend to something
* [17:21] Nebadon Izumi: its very good
* [17:21] Nebadon Izumi: very little confusion
* [17:21] Infinity Linden: back in a few minutes
* [17:21] Whump Linden: okay, are we done for the moment?
* [17:22] Infinity Linden: i thnk we are
* [17:22] Nebadon Izumi: all IRC participants chat is green
* [17:22] Hermit Barber: Nebadon: The trick is to run your own server. The bandwidth is tinyu compared to the rest of the traffic. And quite small macines (FreeBSD is best) can handle pretty big loads.
* [17:22] Nebadon Izumi: so you know
* [17:22] Whump Linden: ossm
* [17:22] Bjorlyn Loon: Thanks for inviting me.
* [17:22] Whump Linden: thank you all for your time
* [17:22] Nebadon Izumi: and in the IRC channel it says what region your in
* [17:22] Whump Linden: I think we'll have a good event.
* [17:22] Whump Linden: or a good post mortem blog post :)
* [17:22] Morgaine Dinova: And a path-laying event, I expect.
* [17:22] Hermit Barber: Then if you want to talk to other networks, ask for a server link
* [17:23] Bjorlyn Loon: lol Whump
* [17:23] Hermit Barber: NNo more bans :-)
* [17:23] Juhjosh Hak: Gotta run... nice to meet everyone!
* [17:23] Bjorlyn Loon: bye!
* [17:23] Nebadon Izumi: Bye Josh, nice meeting you
* [17:23] Mysterio Sinister: I need to go too - nice to meet you all
* [17:23] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Juhjosh
* [17:23] Hermit Barber: Bye Juh
* [17:23] Whump Linden: okay, coffee now or I go into safemode
* [17:23] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
* [17:24] Whump Linden: when you run off of coffee and nicotine and you don't smoke... it's tricky
* [17:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will also Talk to Adam Frisby
* [17:24] Nebadon Izumi: he was very excited about working with other worlds
* [17:24] Whump Linden: good
* [17:24] Nebadon Izumi: he spoke about Croquet in the past
* [17:24] Nebadon Izumi: if we get Adam involved it will move alot faster no doubt
* [17:24] Morgaine Dinova: Yes, he does seem keen.
* [17:25] Nebadon Izumi: ok folks i need a break
* [17:25] Nebadon Izumi: nice meeting everyone
* [17:26] Morgaine Dinova: Cyu Neb, and tnx
* [17:26] Saijanai Kuhn: Thanks so much for coming on such short notice folks
* [17:26] Nebadon Izumi: talk soon :)
* [17:26] Brigantine Parx: see you around
* [17:27] SharedRealm Engineer: is there going to be a chat log of this meeting?
* [17:27] Saijanai Kuhn: you doing the chat log, Inifnity?
* [17:27] Saijanai Kuhn: seems this could be yoru first office hour log ;-)
* [17:28] SharedRealm Engineer: me? This is a new alt. My other av. is Neopallium Granville.
* [17:29] Infinity Linden: hmm... i was gonna do a highly edited minutes
* [17:29] Infinity Linden: if you wanna post the chat logs somewhere ... i defer to your judgement where on the wiki they should go
* [17:29] Saijanai Kuhn: ah, OK, well I can do a general chat log too if you want
* [17:30] Saijanai Kuhn: But this went really well
* [17:30] Saijanai Kuhn: mmox in-world meetings?
* [17:30] Morgaine Dinova: Gotta have the full transcript around too. But highly summarized minutes would be excellent yes.
* [17:30] Saijanai Kuhn: new category in the Groupies page
* [17:31] Morgaine Dinova: Making MMOX a new category Sai?
* [17:32] Saijanai Kuhn: at least for chat logs, yeah
* [17:33] Morgaine Dinova: Hmmm ... we need SL-wiki integration. Pity we still have to go outworld to get stuff done.
* [17:33] Saijanai Kuhn: well if I ever get my act together can have a bot do the transcript automatically but key word is "if"
* [17:33] Infinity Linden: k. gonna be afk while rhymin and typin
Category:Architecture Working Group
Category:Grid_Interoperability
Category:AW Groupies
Category:MMOX