User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-11-26

== Topic ==
User Experience Interest Group Discussion for November 26, 2009.
Topic: Open Topic.
== Summary ==
It was Thanksgiving holiday in the US, so Jacek was gone. The discussion was very informal and mostly off topic.
== Transcript ==
[15:03]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hi :)
[15:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Gotta go, dinner time
[15:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Can someone send me a notecard with the transcript afterwards?
[15:05]	Charlette Proto: 	enjoy Real Life™ Jacek
[15:05]	Charlette Proto: 	bon appetite
[15:06]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hehe bon appetite
[15:06]	Armin Weatherwax: 	midnight dinner - hmmm
[15:06]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet the family roasted a furry and Jacek couldn't say no
[15:07]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	maybe a bird, one hopes
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	I have to go AFK for a few min - coffeee
[15:08]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm, think i have to activate a different group
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Just had roaste chicken at school. Wasn't satisifying.
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	me too? I'm just beng a shit as usual
[15:10]	Charlette Proto: 	does one's meat preference change when you change the spicies of fur on your av?
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not me. I'm always an omnivore.
[15:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm, let me check
[15:11]	Charlette Proto: 	have a giggle http://current.com/items/91120515_thats-gay-no-homo.htm
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'm not going to lose to you in tail bushyness!
[15:11]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i feel like vegetarian now
[15:12]	Armin Weatherwax: 	and there seems to be a certain smell
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	I've been vegeterian for 30 years
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	OK stove needs supevision for a minute
[15:13]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[15:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ok, the script is in debug mode, you spam my screen with ownersay
[15:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	He he he hee.
[15:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah, i stopped working on it over a year ago
[15:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	dont remember what to change
[15:16]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It looks fun though.
[15:16]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah :)
[15:16]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i love the skulls best
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So quiet.
[15:19]	Armin Weatherwax: 	one sec
[15:20]	Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5. 	Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5.
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	(nm)....
[15:21]	Armin Weatherwax gave you spraybullet. 	Armin Weatherwax gave you spraybullet.
[15:21]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ok you put both in a prim ...
[15:21]	Armin Weatherwax: 	and dont mind the ugly code
[15:21]	Object: stink on touch active -4712 	Object: stink on touch active -4712
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I can't see the ugly code.
[15:21]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Priveliged: ["Segiru Xiao", "Nexus Zhangsun", "GoodBoyJay Fall", "Black Feuerstein", "Robbiboy Rossini", "Creepy Triangle"]
[15:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Banned: ["Geneko Nemeth"]
[15:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Banned: [""]
[15:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Priveliged: ["Segiru Xiao", "Nexus Zhangsun", "GoodBoyJay Fall", "Black Feuerstein", "Robbiboy Rossini", "Creepy Triangle", "Geneko Nemeth"]
[15:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Bullet prepared
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail 	Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail
[15:22]	spraybullet: Bullet ready 	spraybullet: Bullet ready
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Bullet going to be shooted
[15:22]	spraybullet: Bullet listening 	spraybullet: Bullet listening
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<1.00000, 1.00000, 1.00000>#<1.00000, 1.00000, 1.00000>
[15:22]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm, i think i made it full perm - no?
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	No.
[15:23]	Armin Weatherwax: 	one sec
[15:23]	Armin Weatherwax: 	now ?
[15:24]	Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5. 	Armin Weatherwax gave you touch for stink.3.5.
[15:24]	Object: stink on touch active -4712 	Object: stink on touch active -4712
[15:25]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:25]	Armin Weatherwax: 	some persons are hardcoded, think you want to remove them :)
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Heh, I won't want a stinky tail anyway.
[15:25]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[15:26]	Armin Weatherwax: 	maybe its good for something else
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I mean, while I'm not sure what species should I go for, skunk is mostly outside my element.
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	... this is why I never use the "replace outfit" option.
[15:27]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[15:27]	Charlette Proto: 	eep nobody else turned up
[15:28]	Charlette Proto: 	I used to save complete av at first, but gave up because of copies and no-trans
[15:28]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah, we didn't start to talk aboult all that serious things, too
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	one would need symlinks/shortcuts/aliases to make it feasible to save
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I think Lindens had that covered in Viewer 2.0
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	if it ever comes out.
[15:29]	Armin Weatherwax: 	thats why i stopped using my AO - i have no copy animations in it ...
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	aliases?
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Probably.
[15:30]	Armin Weatherwax: 	aliases would be great
[15:30]	Charlette Proto: 	ah that would be good, showing attributes would be nice to have too - especially to find things and clean up
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You might have remembered that Lindens had community translators translate two new words, Look and Ensemble.
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not that I'm in the translators group anymore.
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or to begin with.
[15:32]	Charlette Proto: 	I have a question you may be able to tell me about; the snapshot floater - could it especially the thumbnail be resizable?
[15:33]	Charlette Proto: 	people taking pics (not me) apparently use it to make hi-rez snapshots
[15:33]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm, I'm not sure but why not ?
[15:33]	Charlette Proto: 	but the thumbnail is too small to see if they captured what they want
[15:34]	Charlette Proto: 	if it corresponded to the actual window you see when you change rez/proportions and showed the border of what you are capturing on the main viewport it could be a lot more practical
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	especially if it were to be 'live' and recorded video on top of it
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You can have full-screen previews too.
[15:37]	Charlette Proto: 	apparently some 'photographers' hehe use it to make portrait etc pics defining higher res than screen at times
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth: 	...
[15:37]	Charlette Proto: 	like when you want a 2048 x 1560 pic for good quality printout
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Man that is annoying.
[15:38]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Bullet prepared
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail 	Geneko Nemeth touched Armin Weatherwax's tail
[15:38]	spraybullet: Bullet ready 	spraybullet: Bullet ready
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Bullet going to be shooted
[15:38]	spraybullet: Bullet listening 	spraybullet: Bullet listening
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<0.00000, 1.00000, 0.00000>#<0.00000, 1.00000, 0.23000>
[15:38]	Charlette Proto: 	I think about 3300x3300 is the max rez I was able to capture (slow) and any more made me crash
[15:39]	Armin Weatherwax: 	3300^2 is pretty much for "normal" use
[15:39]	Charlette Proto: 	so I could see the point of using it like they describe and noticed that the thumbnail would be more practical if it were more precise and bigger
[15:40]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah I thought the size was enough, but preview wasn't good enough and framing was a bit ambiguous
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth: 	What would be the best way to present the screenshot?
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Zoom-in? Pop out?
[15:42]	Charlette Proto: 	one sees a frame as a red border on the thumbnail, but it is small and sometimes it would help if the user could resize the thumbnail
[15:42]	Charlette Proto: 	eg when you make a portrait pic it really is just a few pixels
[15:43]	Armin Weatherwax: 	if the snapshot floater was resizable like the minimap and the thumb scaled with it - would that be the thing ?
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	this is what I'm thinking of - resize and refloat menu items once it is made wide enough
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Sigh... constraint-based layout again...
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	the pic could resize alone, but at some point it would be nice to reformat the buttons and tickboxes
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	ah OK I was suspecting this would be ugh
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	but resizing the thumbnail is the main thing
[15:46]	Charlette Proto: 	could be a nice feature for photographers, as it is it really is useless
[15:47]	Charlette Proto: 	eg I use debug changes myself, but have tried and found it practically useless, except for the little red border
[15:48]	Armin Weatherwax: 	hm. another idea would be to get it out of the viewer into *a* window of your $desktopenvironment
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	also the saving UI is kind of waste of pixels - a dropdown would be better and there are two save elements which could be redesigned
[15:49]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah Armin - that is my pet subject - make the 3D render a separate window
[15:49]	Charlette Proto: 	and allow for multiple 3D render windows
[15:50]	Armin Weatherwax: 	one of mine, too ... and have a blender plugin ... sigh ...
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	especially for machinima recording - kind of like a camera view
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	also for building, additional rendering windows would be great
[15:51]	Charlette Proto: 	even plan/elevation windows like CAD has to align things to grid etc
[15:51]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah
[15:52]	Charlette Proto: 	BTW has any docs on Viewer 2 leaked yet, besides the vids on tube
[15:52]	Armin Weatherwax: 	no, i was too busy in RL the past 4 weeks
[15:53]	Charlette Proto: 	it kind of is very demoralising to us not to have access to viewer 2
[15:53]	Charlette Proto: 	ah hehe otherwise you would have leaked some
[15:53]	Charlette Proto: 	or found some
[15:53]	Armin Weatherwax: 	no, but have searched for leaked ones
[15:53]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[15:54]	Armin Weatherwax: 	or not
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm sure a bootleg download would be there too, but I havent seen or heard of one yet
[15:55]	Armin Weatherwax: 	I dont expect miracles - there isn't that much that coold possibly be new at 2.0
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	one of the Lindens closed my JIRA on ATI (my desktop not regular system) saying the internal viewer supports HD5xxx GPU
[15:56]	Armin Weatherwax: 	and there are some pretty talented coders from LL busy with Snowglobe ...
[15:56]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm worried that dumbing-down of the UI could be done by us better than Lindens, they don't spend enough life inworld
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	Snow is making good progress - performance/stability
[15:57]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah. and the ogp texture issue was fixed
[15:58]	Charlette Proto: 	even the media plugin seems to have stabilised (was a bit flaky) but OpenJPG disapeared lately
[15:58]	Charlette Proto: 	back to KDU and FMOD
[15:59]	Armin Weatherwax: 	KDU ... well ... ok. FMOD ? never ...
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	suppose they pay for it so why not, but I found OpenJPG was a bit faster (not what I expected) when it was used in some of the TestBuild
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	FMOD works a lot better than OpenAL
[16:01]	Charlette Proto: 	I find that Open distorts with higher bandwidths and poor network performance
[16:01]	Charlette Proto: 	been using it with Meerkat - hopeless
[16:01]	Armin Weatherwax: 	well, openal made a lot better on linux
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	maybe it will improve on PC too
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	didn't it come out of Creative?
[16:02]	Armin Weatherwax: 	yeah, creative is its history
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	not that Creative have any idea about code - they make some real crap
[16:03]	Armin Weatherwax: 	my first soundcard was a creative labs soundblaster
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	and always fail to adhere to standards eg duplex or multiple outputs on creative never work
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	API came out from Creative != code came out from Creative
[16:03]	Armin Weatherwax: 	not that many people had a soundcard 1992
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	mine too, SondBlaster Pro - stereo but 8 bit
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Although the API is... meh.
[16:04]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Is there a way to play UI sounds without making them spatial in OpenAL?
[16:04]	Armin Weatherwax: 	no idea
[16:04]	Charlette Proto: 	OpenAL and ASIO4all kind of suck too
[16:05]	Armin Weatherwax: 	brb
[16:06]	Charlette Proto: 	I use ASIO4all on one of the boxes (XP) to help with signals like mic in recording, but never had it going well with OpenAL
[16:09]	Armin Weatherwax: 	well ... at least openal has now a documented config file - different from what the crative sample impementation had
[16:09]	Armin Weatherwax: 	*creative
[16:10]	Object was touched by Armin Weatherwax ac292d45-bff0-4cfd-ae77-f11e67bf82f5	Object was touched by Armin Weatherwax ac292d45-bff0-4cfd-ae77-f11e67bf82f5
[16:10]	Object: <27.47610, 102.79959, 26.54615> 	Object: <27.47610, 102.79959, 26.54615>
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	Bullet prepared
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax touched Armin Weatherwax's tail 	Armin Weatherwax touched Armin Weatherwax's tail
[16:10]	spraybullet: Bullet ready 	spraybullet: Bullet ready
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	Bullet going to be shooted
[16:10]	spraybullet: Bullet listening 	spraybullet: Bullet listening
[16:10]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ac292d45-bff0-4cfd-ae77-f11e67bf82f5#00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000#<1.00000, 0.00000, 0.50000>#<1.00000, 0.00000, 1.00000>
[16:10]	Charlette Proto: 	always a mess when things go open
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	just look at Snow naming policy hehe
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	one day test build, then Release Candidate named Release, then back to TestBuild
[16:11]	Armin Weatherwax: 	sadly its the linux "sound system" that is completely messed up
[16:12]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah Linux sound was always the thing that made me laugh at chances for Linux to ever make it to the market - pathetic
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's a miracle that there is actually sound coming out from those speakers.
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	frankly one can't have 3 sound systems and make it work across multiple apps
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	agree
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	I keep trying different distos (Gentoo being the fav) and can't believe that none of them will make the same sounds - UI works, but not DVD, or no recording - always something is dead
[16:14]	Armin Weatherwax: 	let's count 1 oss (compat layer) 2 Alsa 3 pulse 4 jack 5 whatever that thing for kde is named
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	phonon.
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Phonon is just a layer over ALSA/OSS/Pulse.
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And so is GStreamer.
[16:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh yeah, Phonon probably also layers over DirectSound
[16:15]	Charlette Proto: 	actually PC Linux OS 2007 was the closest to everything working - didn't decode 5.1 but all apps worked including DVBT in Kafeine
[16:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	gstreamer is evil (more evil than pulse)
[16:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	i love xine, but xine is evil, too
[16:15]	Armin Weatherwax: 	just in a different way
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	nooo Kafeine is better with DVB for sure
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	and xine is like a dead box if you don't like something you can't rconfigure much
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	or maybe I didn't like it and didn't work on it hard enough
[16:17]	Armin Weatherwax: 	but the api is kind of intuitive
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	I found that adding things eg DVD CODEC and TV tuners actually worked in Kafeine
[16:17]	Armin Weatherwax: 	different from gstreamer
[16:18]	Armin Weatherwax: 	is xine working on win ? (i know there are builds ...)
[16:19]	Charlette Proto: 	but xine is like the same stuff listed no matter what you add, so if not supported it can't be fixed easily
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	don't think so, but again I'd like Kafeine on windows - I like the zoom on live DVBT and DVD too
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	thankies Armin
[16:20]	Armin Weatherwax: 	:)
[16:21]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ok, I think its time to make a notecard for jacek ...
[16:21]	Charlette Proto: 	i never found zoom in xine, does it have zoom to cut the balck borders when signal is not the same ratio as the screen
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	true Armin - she'll be thinking; just as well that we talk Second Life™ when the boss is present
[16:22]	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41 	Object was touched by Geneko Nemeth ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	otherwise it would all be chicken and open source
[16:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Open sauce!
[16:22]	Armin Weatherwax: 	lol
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	free range code
[16:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Gah, my milk!
[16:23]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah and open sauce
[16:23]	Armin Weatherwax: 	ok, who has a good chatlog without too much §$friendisgoingonoffline
[16:24]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah, I get so many, need to delets a bit
[16:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Idk
[16:24]	Charlette Proto: 	my routine is to look at profile of peeps i don't remeber and if they have nothing in there - delete the stupid alt
[16:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Mine has a couple of skunk smell in it.
[16:25]	Armin Weatherwax: 	mine has a lot of skunk smell XD
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	haha if they not fur - delete
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	oops lag in chat
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	WOW my GPU is like 77 degree (170F) with just 3 avs
[16:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So I'll do it?