Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 06 13

== List of Speakers ==
Ann Otoole
flexi campfire
Gooden Uggla
Lares Carter
Latif Khalifa
Liisa Runo
== Transcript ==
[09:00] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Hello...
[09:00] Dora (dora.gustafson): hey
[09:01] FooBar (data.landau): Hi
[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning
[09:01] Liisa Runo: morning
[09:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Hmmm... Maybe we should ring the bell.
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So!
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): This meeting is more official now! It should be on the calendar this week I hope.
[09:03] Liisa Runo: neat
[09:04] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Nope. Not yet.
[09:04] Lares Carter: Hi :)
[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah I know it isn't yet. We just had the meeting to talk about it this last Friday.
[09:05] Liisa Runo: so now you must watch what you speak, since you are an official voice of LL now
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Charlar is gonna stop by. but we aren't allowed to ask him anything. ;)
[09:05] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): A meeting to decide if you should be officially on the calendar? A bit overkilll IMHO.
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): A meeting to discuss the content creator user group goals and strategy etc.
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Whether or not it is on the calendar is the byproduct.
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, welcome to the Scripting meeting of the Content Creator's User Group.
[09:07] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Any way... Give me... us good news about llCastRAy()
[09:07] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): :P
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think we have decided that we will be releasing llCastRay soon. Though the Mesh meeting is the better place for more details.
[09:08] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I still don't see the connection with meshes.
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It lives in the mesh code-base. That is the connection.
[09:08] Liisa Runo: Got news? What you been working lately?
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I've been working with the mesh team on the 'Prim Equivalence' part.
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, not really scripting related.
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I've also been working on making sure the Mono 2 upgrade is in good shape for release.
[09:10] Dora (dora.gustafson): have you any wise words on SCR-92 ?
[09:10] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-92
[#SCR-92] LSL functions for MESH prim type
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): A single jira is probably not a great idea, except maybe as a meta jira that others link to
[09:11] Dora (dora.gustafson): iy is meta:)
[09:11] Dora (dora.gustafson): it*
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Since it is very unlikely we could or would choose to implement all the suggestions made. A single jira with lots of ideas is difficult to manage.
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Oh, so it is. I'd put the ideas into seperate feature request jiras
[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Meshes are static assets. They behave more like textures than objects in many ways which will make manipulating them more difficult.
[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm really not sure how feasible mirror or invert would be - I don't know the system well enough. You would have to follow up with the mesh team for specifics.
[09:13] Dora (dora.gustafson): I see them much as sculpties and they can be manipulated
[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I hope it will at least be possible to resize them. I have doubts when you say "static".
[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden): You should be able to resize mesh objects. Pretty sure on that one.
[09:14] FooBar (data.landau): yer resize works ok
[09:14] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Next thing is being able to change textures.
[09:14] FooBar (data.landau): on beta anyhoo
[09:14] FooBar (data.landau): yep textures works too
[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Unfortunately I don't know enough personally to give opinions or information on function specifics for mesh.
[09:16] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Final and complex step should be animating meshes with skeleton... but I think I'm just dreaming out loud.
[09:16] Fellony Lock Pick Hud: Reading pickconfig note card....
[09:16] Fellony Lock Pick Hud: Reading pickconfig note card....
[09:16] Latif Khalifa: hello
[09:17] Lares Carter: heya Latif
[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ah more people have arrived. :)
[09:17] Ann Otoole: map looks kinda primmy lol
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): All right, lets move on past Mesh.
[09:18] Latif Khalifa: yeah lol
[09:18] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Sorry for being late, I overslept
[09:18] Liisa Runo: i see "Fix pending" on SCR-67. Got ETA?
[09:18] Gooden Uggla: how's mono derez coming along?
[09:18] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-67
[#SCR-67] llLinkTargetOmega() and/or PRIM_OMEGA flag for PrimParam functions
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Starting next week these meetings will get a little more structured - I'm going to move back to alternating jira triage and open discussion.
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Liisa: yes we added PRIM_OMEGA
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Will be in an upcomming server-maintenance release.
[09:19] Liisa Runo: ?
[09:19] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): What's the jira for PRIM_LOCAL_POS?
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It does come with a behavior change too though - the omega will now be tied to the prim, not the script.
[09:19] HEAD: 2011-06-13T16:19:45.000804Z MONO DRIFT: 4
[09:20] Latif Khalifa: do you know which RC gets promoted to the main chan tomorrow?
[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Currently if you remove the script that caused the omega it will stop the omega. After we add PRIM_OMEGA removing the script won't stop the spinning.
[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Gooden: No work is being done on derez performance right now.
[09:20] Liisa Runo: im fine with that
[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Me too... Less scripts
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Latif: I do not. It is either Mono2 or Mesh-Prep.
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think it gets decided today.
[09:21] FooBar (data.landau): thinks its 2.7.0 latif
[09:21] Latif Khalifa: ah cool. i'm hoping for it to be mono2 :)
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Me too, but Mesh-prep has a lot of pressure behind it to ship.
[09:21] Gooden Uggla: ok kelly, i find that disappointing
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Sorry Gooden.
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): How has performance been on the Le Tigre regions? Anyone have experience
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): ?
[09:22] Gooden Uggla: those of us with entertainment venues are still waiting for the end of freezes
[09:22] Liisa Runo: i have not noticed any problems
[09:22] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I didn't notice anything special in our region.
[09:23] Gooden Uggla: performance seems ok, tho there's been a general drop in performance over the weekend
[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden): k.
[09:23] Gooden Uggla: lots of small thiongs not working at random
[09:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yeah I was in a main channel region that was averaging 85% TD
[09:24] Gooden Uggla: mhmm Kallista
[09:24] Liisa Runo: what kind of small things?
[09:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): with 20 peopke in it. I think it was a full region
[09:24] HEAD: 2011-06-13T16:24:13.798554Z LSL DRIFT: 4
[09:24] HEAD: 2011-06-13T16:24:14.206594Z MONO DRIFT: 5
[09:24] Gooden Uggla: i had 2 estate managers unable to access the estate window
[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hrm.
[09:24] Gooden Uggla: i had people complain that payment windows wouldn't completely load
[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is a weird one. You are on a Le Tigre host Gooden?
[09:25] Gooden Uggla: that was a main server region
[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Oh. Ok.
[09:25] Gooden Uggla: i assumed it was because there was 69k concurrancy at the time
[09:26] Gooden Uggla: just lots of small errors popping up
[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden): At this moment I'm more concerned with regressions in the Mono 2 Le Tigre regions that might block it from release this week.
[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Though what you describe is concerning.
[09:26] tehKellz (kelly.linden): 69k concurrency shouldn't be an issue.
[09:27] Gooden Uggla: it hasn't been in the past, usually things start bogging down around 72k (which is rare)
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Gooden I'd bring up those performance concerns at the Simulator User Group meetings with Andrew and Simon, if you could.
[09:28] Gooden Uggla: of course
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Awesome, thanks.
[09:29] Gooden Uggla: i think the point was that various things have gone buggy over the weekend, it's hard to ascribe them to any channel
[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah, ok that is helpful.
[09:30] Ann Otoole: here it is the dang internet techs doing stuff and net speed drops between where i am and LL servers. causes all sorts of interesting effects with slv2.
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): heh.
[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Any other topics? Or jiras anyone wants to discuss?
[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): svc-129 looks like to be the one for PRIM_LOCAL_POS
[09:31] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-129
[#SVC-129] Need PRIM_LOCAL_ROTATION and PRIM_LOCAL_POSITION to complement llGetLocalRot() and llGetLocalPos()
[09:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): It's the weekend, We get September every Friday,Saturday and Sunday.
[09:32] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): We have PRIM_LOCAL_ROT... Errr... PRIM_ROT_LOCAL. We really need PRIM_POS_LOCAL too.
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kaluura I agree
[09:32] FooBar (data.landau): yer that would be a nice addition
[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That jira needs to be split
[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Right now llGetLinkPP() gives region coordinates. No very useful.
[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Not*
[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah.
[09:34] Liisa Runo: especially tricky when the object is moving
[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): There are other jiras but they were all closed to direct ppl at svc-129
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ok, lets fix that.
[09:35] Liisa Runo: yay
[09:35] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Woot....
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I meant the jira, btw.
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): fix the jira.
[09:35] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=
[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I donlt think that fixing llGetLinkPP() is going to break a lot of content....
[09:36] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Especially not by adding a new constant.
[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Oh... do The Regions keep track of llFunctionName() calls?
[09:37] Liisa Runo: nothing will change, the PRIM_POSITION will continue to work as it works now, will just add new PRIM_POS_LOCAL
[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-102
[09:37] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-102
[#SCR-102] New primitiveparam: PRIM_LOCALPOSITION
[09:37] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): 102... The list is growing fast...
[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That is statistics of number if times llSay() was called, and llOwnerSay() etc?
[09:38] HEAD: 2011-06-13T16:38:34.251087Z LSL DRIFT: 4
[09:38] HEAD: 2011-06-13T16:38:34.253689Z MONO DRIFT: 4
[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kallista: no, not really.
[09:39] Liisa Runo: ( offtopic to cheer up the day SVC-7031 )
[09:39] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7031
[#SVC-7031] Chat Lag is broken!
[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We have the ability to enable such tracking but it also includes time spent in each function. And generally crashes the region in about 20 seconds.
[09:39] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Lols....
[09:39] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Did some Linden really forget to feed the hamster in the chat server?
[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I will make sure that jira is brought to the attention of the appropriate people.
[09:42] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Althought I did have an occurance of regular chat being dropped in a very heavily lagged region...
[09:42] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): IF you could slip a word about disconnecting everything we're waiting for from the always coming meshes...
[09:43] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I had an occurence of re-orded chat with llOwnerSay()... Very surprizing.
[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm pretty sure the group chat changes thus far AND planned should have no effect on regular chat.
[09:45] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I'm reasonably confidant about that too..
[09:45] FooBar (data.landau): ;)
[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ok, SCR-102 is cleaned up and on the backlog.
[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I'm still puzzled by the chat fix. What is really as simple as pushing 2 buttons for it to happens like this, overnight?
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We deployed an update to the central servers that handle group chat last week.
[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): group chat*
[09:46] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Now, that makes sense to me.
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It was not a simple matter, it was a lot of work by a dedicated team
[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It is also not the complete fix which is why we have not communicated loudly about it.
[09:47] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Actually apparently it was a resequnce of how things were done, a flash of brilliance IMHO.
[09:47] FooBar (data.landau): Can you give us a brief on what that update was ?
[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There is still code to release on the simulator / region side, as far as I understand it.
[09:47] Latif Khalifa: it also not a fix, perhaps you should refrain from communicating
[09:47] Nal (nalates.urriah): I collect the info about chat that I could find here: http://blog.nalates.net/2011/06/11/sl-chat-update/
[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ok Latif.
[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I strongly suggest nobody touches group chat any more. Even if nothing was actually done, it looks fixed. hehehe
[09:49] Latif Khalifa: data, you can find Alain Linden's explanation on how group chat works and what fixers where in Beta Server user group transcrip by Oskar from couple of weeks ago
[09:51] Latif Khalifa: in short right now for every line of group chat entered, the backend server needs to find which group members are online and in which regions they are
[09:51] Latif Khalifa: as you can imagine this kills of those backend chat servers fast
[09:51] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Any other topics? 9 minutes remaining.
[09:52] Latif Khalifa: so some caching was added to reduce number of calls to the presence service
[09:52] Nal (nalates.urriah): Whatever... chat in groups like Phoenix's is way better.
[09:52] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Also i believe that it believes the cache, until the region returns an error then it looks for you again.
[09:53] Latif Khalifa: yep
[09:53] Liisa Runo: So, when mesh get out of the way, what are your plans to work on after it? Have any plans yet?
[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): C#... =^_^=
[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There are a few possibilities. I'm not ready to talk about them right now though
[09:54] Nal (nalates.urriah): Where is the waterboard?
[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): You can say... We don't spread rumors...
[09:55] Latif Khalifa: lol
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It might upset Latif.
[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): =^_^=
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If I talk about anything without being sure it is authoritative.
[09:55] Latif Khalifa: you are adding facebook integration? :P
[09:55] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Any chance of putting EM controls on SVC 5927?
[09:55] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): SVC-5927
[09:56] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927
[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued
[09:56] Latif Khalifa: 'cause that's the only thing that can truly upset me :P
[09:56] Liisa Runo: alright, i hope you start making some awesome LSL stuff.
[09:56] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): We are warned. Just give us one bone to chew on.
[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I have no update on that Kallista.
[09:56] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Thank you, I'd just like y'all to keep in mind that some people are being severly impacted by it.
[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden): One note, for the last comment on that jira: whoever the jira is assigned to doesn't need to watch a jira - they automatically get all update emails for new comments etc.
[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ahhhhh, OK That wasn't clear at all.
[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is how jira works. The creator and assignee get all emails about it, and watchers as well.
[09:58] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Thank you...
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Next week will be triage. I'll get a filter created for the SCR project that we will work through, so if you have an issue you'd like triaged make sure it is in the SCR project.
[10:00] Latif Khalifa: ok
[10:00] Nal (nalates.urriah): Thanks, Kelly. I appreciate your time and effort. I gotta go.
[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Thanks for coming out. See you all next week.