Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.09.17

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk	Andrew Linden 	ANSI Soderstrom
Dolma Dollinger 	Ima Mechanique 	Kelly Linden
Kennylex Luckless	Lucia Nightfire 	Melvin Starbrook
Mona Eberhardt 	Moon Corrigible 	Nalates Urriah
Petr Topaz 	Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon
Simon Linden 	Techwolf Lupindo	TorqueDom3 Primeau
Whirly Fizzle 	Wuf Shirabyoshi 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:03] Simon Linden: I can get things rolling with the server update news .... we put a new version on the main channel of the grid this morning. This had some system http work that Monty did
[12:04] Rex Cronon: i was wondering. how can we let our ceo know how much we "love" the new TOS:)
[12:04] Simon Linden: The forum post is here : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-09-16/td-p/2208893
[12:04] Mona Eberhardt: Maybe by going Mrs Osbourne vs Iron Maiden on him, Rex?
[12:04] Simon Linden: Tomorrow we'll have two different maintenance releases in the RC channels
[12:04] Kelly Linden: whirly: you didn't really think we'd let you escape my bling did you?
[12:04] Rex Cronon: yeah. right mona:)
[12:04] Melvin Starbrook: lol
[12:05] Rex Cronon: hello andrew, kelly
[12:05] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Andrew :)
[12:05] Andrew Linden: Hello.
[12:05] Simon Linden: There aren't a lot of fixes going out ... but a few crashes and other improvements
[12:06] Simon Linden: I'll pre-empt the later questions about the TOS with a "I don't know and I can't discuss it" 'cause we're engineers and not lawyers.
[12:06] Wuf Shirabyoshi caresses laggy
[12:06] KittyCats - Laggy: purr
[12:07] Techwolf Lupindo: Is there a link tothe TOS changes for us that don't know what is going on?
[12:07] Simon Linden: but if there are discussions in the forums please express your concerns there ... they will get read
[12:07] Kennylex Luckless: In what release will Andrew have a mesh ava?
[12:07] Nalates Urriah: Simon, NP, but pass along there is lots of dissatisfaction...
[12:07] Simon Linden: I didn't see one when I looked a few days ago
[12:07] Nalates Urriah: There are 4 or 5
[12:07] Adamburp Adamczyk: tos changes? never knew they was a-coming or id'v'e baked a cke
[12:07] Simon Linden: I have Nal ... I can't get into details but that feedback has reached the right people
[12:08] Nalates Urriah: Thx
[12:08] Simon Linden whispers: Andrew or Kelly - do you guys have any news?
[12:08] Rex Cronon: ur can read about here: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2013/09/linden-lab-tos-textures.html#more
[12:09] Andrew Linden: I don't have much. I've been fixing some interestlist bugs
[12:09] ANSI Soderstrom: hi
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: I've had crashes in BS and LT regions every 2 - 3 days since the last two release, are those crash fixes addressing that?
[12:09] Kennylex Luckless: Hi hi
[12:09] Rex Cronon: hi ansi
[12:09] Andrew Linden: turns out objects aren't always loading in the right order when you login or TP to a new region
[12:09] Andrew Linden: but I just fixed that yesterday
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: Here's a more concise post on the subject, Rex: https://modemworld.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/tos-change-and-content-rights-lab-provides-statement/
[12:10] Andrew Linden: and there is a bug where some textures (such as the water) will not show up in a timely manner after you clear your cache
[12:10] Andrew Linden: but I *just* finished the fix for that a minute ago
[12:10] Melvin Starbrook: YAY!
[12:10] Mona Eberhardt: That's good news.
[12:11] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i do have a question about scripts and texture rezzing
[12:11] ANSI Soderstrom: there is also a bug with Muted Objects, if they send you IM (but they are muted), you get a message "Delivery capped" at login
[12:11] ANSI Soderstrom: and no messages
[12:12] Wuf Shirabyoshi tries not to mute to many objects/peoples
[12:12] Wuf Shirabyoshi: last week i was trying to create a prerezzer
[12:12] Melvin Starbrook: for me its very important water rezzing in time :)
[12:12] Nalates Urriah: The long SL forum discussion on ToS is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Updated-LL-TOS-Claims-FULL-RIGHTS-to-ALL-CONTENT/m-p/2201477
[12:12] ANSI Soderstrom: its only oine object, it send me every minute a IM
[12:12] Whirly Fizzle: Dont IM's from muted avies themselves count towards offline cap too?
[12:13] ANSI Soderstrom: its my own object
[12:13] ANSI Soderstrom: but i sold it
[12:13] ANSI Soderstrom: i cant delete it
[12:13] Simon Linden: ANSI - can you file that as a BUG ? or does anyone know if it's been reported? That sounds straight-forward
[12:13] ANSI Soderstrom: yes, sorry
[12:13] Mona Eberhardt: Whirly, I don't get it. Why should IMs from blocked people count towards offline cap?
[12:13] ANSI Soderstrom: not from blocked people, blocked objects itself
[12:13] Simon Linden: It all depends on where and when the block is applied
[12:13] Kennylex Luckless: Hello eroticable pleas dress in G rated zone.
[12:14] Adamburp Adamczyk: where's baker?
[12:14] Andrew Linden: that's a bug? ANSI created an obj that IM's him constantly, and then sells it, and can't delete it?
[12:15] Andrew Linden: What exactly is the bug? Sounds like a mistake to me.
[12:15] Whirly Fizzle: Dont group notices from groups you have ticked to not receive notices from also count to the cap?
[12:15] Simon Linden: No, those IMs are causing problems
[12:15] Rex Cronon: i think the bug is that ansi can't mute it
[12:15] Andrew Linden: ok, so the consequences from the IM's is a bug. The IM's can't be properly managed.
[12:15] Simon Linden: Right
[12:16] Petr Topaz: can't delete it
[12:16] ANSI Soderstrom: i has a object, if a error in network appears, it send me a IM to let me see if my host is down...... the script startet to "loop" and i got a message every minute, the owner was offline since one week, so i muted the object but my IMs are still capped
[12:16] Simon Linden: fwiw as something related ... I've been looking into missing Group Notices, which seem to be flaky these days getting to email and being there when you log in
[12:16] Rex Cronon: if u sold u can't delete it unless u put in a script that listens only to u
[12:16] Wuf Shirabyoshi: how does it send it to you, via owner uuid, or fixed uuid?
[12:16] ANSI Soderstrom: ficed uuid
[12:17] Wuf Shirabyoshi: not the wisest thing...
[12:17] Melvin Starbrook: depends what you want :)
[12:17] Wuf Shirabyoshi: so the bug is that im's from muted objects are not blocked, when send to a fixed uuid
[12:18] Wuf Shirabyoshi: does it block other im's?
[12:18] Wuf Shirabyoshi: didn't get that straight
[12:18] Simon Linden: it may be compounded by the fact ANSI is the creator
[12:18] Techwolf Lupindo: Hmm...create an object, IM target every minute. Target mute object, target can't recieve offline IM due to cap.
[12:18] Simon Linden: but in any case, it seems worth looking into
[12:19] Wuf Shirabyoshi: you get the IM when you're online as well?
[12:19] Andrew Linden: Ok, so the offline IM queue needs to have some awareness of what is muted.
[12:20] Wuf Shirabyoshi: or queue needs to be larger...
[12:20] ANSI Soderstrom: i get email if iam offline, every minute 1
[12:20] Wuf Shirabyoshi gets her hopes up
[12:20] ANSI Soderstrom: from this object
[12:20] Kelly Linden: IMs from muted residents while you are offline do not get stored and do not count against the cap
[12:20] Andrew Linden: Wuf, you said you had a question about texture streaming ("texture rezzing")?
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: what I thought
[12:20] ANSI Soderstrom: but i cant mute myself
[12:20] Wuf Shirabyoshi sometimes whishes she could
[12:21] Simon Linden: Right, I think you have a special case there ANSI and it's worth looking into
[12:21] ANSI Soderstrom: maybe its a creator/owner bug
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: ahhhh ty. Do group notices count to the cap if you have ticked not to receive notices from that group?
[12:21] ANSI Soderstrom: i'll write a jira soon
[12:21] Wuf Shirabyoshi can't believe it's got something to do with creator, but maybe because you can't mute yourself or so....
[12:21] Kelly Linden: Whirly I don't know off the top of my head. I think not.
[12:22] Melvin Starbrook: you mute objects or owner of the object.. not the creator :)
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ouch
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi missed a line
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: yes andrew
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i was making this prerezzer
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i want to have a slide show of textures
[12:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but because they load very slow, dolma adviced me to make a prerezzer
[12:24] Wuf Shirabyoshi: so when some texture loads on the normal object, i have a small, nearly invisible object, that gets the next texture
[12:24] Andrew Linden: right, a prerezzer would be something that loads the texture on an unseed face to make the viewer download the texture before it shows up on a visible face.
[12:24] Wuf Shirabyoshi: textures actually
[12:24] Wuf Shirabyoshi: yes
[12:24] Andrew Linden: er... *unseen* face
[12:24] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but it looks like not all textures are loaded
[12:25] Wuf Shirabyoshi: when you are with your back to that pre rezzing object it's way slower
[12:25] Ima Mechanique: would unseen face work? doesn't the viewer know to ignore things it can't show?
[12:25] Simon Linden: You can press ctrl-shift-3 and watch as textures are downloaded
[12:25] Melvin Starbrook: change groups and rezzing will go faster...
[12:25] Simon Linden: Your viewer will prioritize textures that are larger and closer to you
[12:26] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but can it be, that some textures are not loaded at all?
[12:26] Wuf Shirabyoshi: even if you wait 5 mins
[12:26] Andrew Linden: yeah, our texture download pipeline has become a bit smarter over time... it has probably become a bit harder to "fool" with an unseen texture
[12:26] Wuf Shirabyoshi: is there a workaround
[12:26] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:26] Wuf Shirabyoshi: to fool it
[12:26] Ima Mechanique: I always use a shown face but colour it black to hide the texture
[12:26] Nalates Urriah: Does it matter if the prim face w/texture is facing away from yo?
[12:26] Simon Linden: Perhaps try making your display like this -- make a thin prim with the one you want to see, then another one right behind it with that pre-load textures on a face that's not exposed ... sandwiched between them
[12:27] Andrew Linden: I think we do some texture download prioritization -- we try to compute how many pixels are visible for the texture and prioritize by pixel count
[12:27] Simon Linden: That's a good idea, Ima ... maybe the back of your screen could be like that
[12:27] Andrew Linden: more pixels visible, the higher the priority for download
[12:27] TorqueDom3 Primeau: doesnt the "ambient occlusion" opion effect the prerezzer idea?
[12:28] Rex Cronon: imo llPreloadTexture(key textureKey) would be quite useful:)
[12:28] Wuf Shirabyoshi: well i don't mind people see the texture, but i don't want the prerezzer to 'disturb' the real object
[12:28] Wuf Shirabyoshi never heard of llPreloadTexture
[12:28] Rex Cronon: i think u can use particles to preload textures:)
[12:29] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hmm
[12:29] Simon Linden: Yes Torque ... it might. We're essentially trying to trick the viewer to download something it can't see yet, while it works hard to download what you can see
[12:29] Wuf Shirabyoshi gets a huge object in front of her camera...
[12:29] Andrew Linden: I'm not familiar with details of the viewer's texture priority system -- I'll have to ask some of the other LL devs to find out if they know how to fool it into downloading a texture early.
[12:30] Rex Cronon: we don't have such a function wuf. at least not yet
[12:30] Wuf Shirabyoshi: well particles might be an option too
[12:30] Wuf Shirabyoshi: and i'll have a watch at that llPreloadTexture,
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:30] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ohh
[12:31] Rex Cronon: it was wishful thinking on my part:)
[12:32] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ehm simon
[12:32] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i don't mind, that prerezzing takes place after the normal rezzing
[12:32] Wuf Shirabyoshi: the meaning is that people first look at the normal rezzed texture
[12:32] Wuf Shirabyoshi: while it's fully rezzed
[12:33] Wuf Shirabyoshi: so during that, there's time to prerezz the next one(s)
[12:33] Simon Linden: Don't hold your breath for llPreloadTexture() btw
[12:34] Wuf Shirabyoshi: *grin*
[12:34] Wuf Shirabyoshi: would kill me probably
[12:34] Wuf Shirabyoshi slowly caresses laggy
[12:34] Ima Mechanique: I made a slideshow like that some time ago, before the LinkPrim function came along. I should rewrite it to use a single script I suppose
[12:35] Rex Cronon: laggy? nice name for a cat:)
[12:35] Andrew Linden: One idea, Wuf, is to put the preloading texture on a black object nearby. Like the picture frame for the current image.
[12:35] Simon Linden: I have a slideshow downstairs with paintings by an artist I know ... they're fun scripts to make
[12:35] Simon Linden: but didn't bother with the pre-loading
[12:35] Andrew Linden: The texture will load undeneath the black color
[12:35] Andrew Linden: and will not cause visible glitches, but the viewer will think it needs to be rendered on real pixels.
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but isn't that black disturbing the view on the normal object?
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i might be able to rezz the object inside one of the avatars or so
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: it's 3d
[12:36] Wuf Shirabyoshi: avatars constantly rotate
[12:37] Ima Mechanique: dwho can colour the sides differently
[12:37] Ima Mechanique: *you
[12:37] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i do
[12:37] Andrew Linden: Well, the black object would be a piece of the viewer object ... a decoration of sorts.
[12:37] Ima Mechanique: so make all sides black, except the main screen
[12:37] Wuf Shirabyoshi: there are 6 textures
[12:37] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ahh the sides of the main screen
[12:37] Wuf Shirabyoshi: great idea!
[12:37] Andrew Linden: I dunno what your viewer looks like. But if it needed a border or frame of sorts, you could make it black and put a texture underneath that.
[12:38] Wuf Shirabyoshi: no the sides from the prims from the main view you normally don't see
[12:38] The Flying toilett with sign whispers: Welcome, ANSI Soderstrom, to drive The Flying toilett :) !
[12:38] The Flying toilett with sign whispers: Say /911 gethud to get an HUD.
[12:38] The Flying toilett with sign whispers: Engine ready.
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi looks at the dirty old man riding a toilet
[12:39] Andrew Linden: yes, but if the viewer were smart enough it would notice that the unseen sides of the box are not rendered...
[12:39] Andrew Linden: and therefore it doesn't need to load the image
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:39] Andrew Linden: at least... not with high priority
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi realized that too
[12:39] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but it's worth testing
[12:40] Andrew Linden: I thought the system used a kind of "gl-pick" technique to measure the number of pixels for each texture
[12:40] Moon Corrigible: How high does the priority need to be if it is only preloading though
[12:40] Wuf Shirabyoshi: indeed
[12:40] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but if it doesn't load, the idea is useless
[12:40] Andrew Linden: the way "gl-pick" works, if I understand it correctly, is that it renders each object with a different color to a side buffer
[12:41] Wuf Shirabyoshi: eeps
[12:41] Ima Mechanique: taper and flatten the object so that the sides become bevelled edges, that makes them viewable and frames your main screen
[12:42] Wuf Shirabyoshi: well maybe it's best to remain at low priority
[12:42] Wuf Shirabyoshi: as long as it loads
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: I use a preload prim that has 7 faces that cycle the next images, heh, but its mesh so I can get away with it easily
[12:42] Wuf Shirabyoshi: thanks for the ideas: particles, llpreload and sides of the main screen prims
[12:43] Wuf Shirabyoshi: oh yes, i let the object rotate as well
[12:43] Andrew Linden: sorry, got sidetracked by a phone call...
[12:43] Wuf Shirabyoshi: once every 10 seconds or so
[12:43] Wuf Shirabyoshi: that works too a bit
[12:43] Andrew Linden: I think we might use the gl-pick method to compute the number of pixels per texture that are being renderd... but am not sure
[12:43] Andrew Linden: I'll have to ask around
[12:43] Rex Cronon: wuf. if particles work, please let me know:)
[12:44] Wuf Shirabyoshi nods
[12:44] Andrew Linden: but if we do, then you need real pixels to be visible before the viewer will give the texture a high priority
[12:44] Andrew Linden: and the more pixels the better
[12:44] Andrew Linden: so if the sides of the box are not visible... might not help
[12:44] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i need melvin for that, particles are common in fireshows...
[12:44] Mona Eberhardt: So, Andrew, the viewer prioritises higher-resolution textures?
[12:44] Melvin Starbrook smiles
[12:45] Nalates Urriah: Does transparency decrease the priority?
[12:45] Melvin Starbrook: wondering how long preloading takes
[12:45] Andrew Linden: rendered pixels on screen Mona
[12:45] Melvin Starbrook giggles
[12:45] Andrew Linden: so size of object
[12:45] Andrew Linden: and number of objects
[12:45] Wuf Shirabyoshi: you might be right andrew, i noticed that too on occasions
[12:45] Mona Eberhardt: Ah, ok.
[12:45] Andrew Linden: also, there is a higher priority given to the texture under the mouse cursor
[12:45] ANSI Soderstrom: if you right click a object, textures on this object will be forced to load
[12:45] Ima Mechanique: solid proof that size does matter!!
[12:45] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but not much lately
[12:46] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[12:46] ANSI Soderstrom: this is useable on busy sims
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: isn't there higher priority with selected obejcts too?
[12:46] Wuf Shirabyoshi quite agrees
[12:46] Andrew Linden: so you have 1000 textures coming in at once and you want to help one texture to download faster
[12:46] Andrew Linden: try hovering the mouse over that texture
[12:46] Andrew Linden: don't know about that Lucia
[12:46] TorqueDom3 Primeau: ok, so a 1024 X 1024 texture takes higher priority than a 512 X 512... but the 1024 has 4X the pixels, meaning it loads 4x slower
[12:46] Wuf Shirabyoshi: i allways try that andrew
[12:46] Melvin Starbrook: yes just touch that texture.. very handy when shopping lol
[12:46] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but the last ehm 2 years, that nearly doesn't work no more
[12:46] Andrew Linden: but since rendered pixel count helps you can also alt+zoom up close to that texture
[12:47] Andrew Linden: oh ok Wuf, good to know
[12:47] Wuf Shirabyoshi: and zooming in appears nearly not to work neither lately
[12:47] Andrew Linden: I'll ask around to see what some of the viewer devs know about the texture download priority system
[12:48] Wuf Shirabyoshi: maybe it's viewer dependent
[12:48] Rex Cronon: i get same thing as wuf. zooming an mouse hoover don't seem to help
[12:48] Andrew Linden: Well, maybe it doesn't work like I thought.
[12:49] Wuf Shirabyoshi sees a tester drop down
[12:49] Andrew Linden: I think the mouse hover was working for me a couple months ago
[12:49] Andrew Linden: when I was testing scene load metrics for some texture-heavy regions
[12:49] Whirly Fizzle: If you're seeing texture thrashing where all textures constantly blur/sharpen/blur/sharpen & you hover mouse over an object, the texture under cursor will stop thrashing & stay loaded.
[12:49] Wuf Shirabyoshi thinks that old men shouldn't ride toilets
[12:50] Nalates Urriah: My expereince with mouse-hover is that for a time it did nothing. But, recently it seems to have some affect. But, If I'm in a region where textures are slow downloading, nothing really seems to help.
[12:50] Andrew Linden: btw, if you press CTRL + SHIFT + 3 you get a debug display showing the texture download queue
[12:50] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but what does it say?
[12:51] Wuf Shirabyoshi: is there an explenation of what you see then?
[12:51] Wuf Shirabyoshi: oh yes, i set my cache size smaller, and it appears to make a difference
[12:52] Qie Niangao: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Texture_Console
[12:52] Andrew Linden: I'm not an expert on the details of the texture debug info
[12:52] Simon Linden: Thanks Qie
[12:52] Andrew Linden: but the "State" column indicates how the texture is getting downloaded
[12:52] Nalates Urriah: Yay, Qie. Thx
[12:52] Simon Linden: The Discard level is the detail
[12:52] Wuf Shirabyoshi: pff, like i'm at school again
[12:53] Simon Linden: There will be a quiz on Thursday
[12:53] Moon Corrigible: @Simon.. Awww mannn.. and I didnt take notes!
[12:53] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi with questions about texture consoles?
[12:53] Ima Mechanique: that's okay, I'm away Thursday ;-)
[12:54] Andrew Linden: was that a question Wuf? I can't parse it.
[12:54] Wuf Shirabyoshi quickly shakes her head
[12:55] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but from now on i'll be staring at that texture console...
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: what were the crashing bugs that were fixed if that can be discussed?
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:56] Andrew Linden: The crash bug I fixed was actually rather rare... a corruption of the terrain data when building packets.
[12:56] Andrew Linden: Happened maybe... 5 times in three weeks.
[12:56] Andrew Linden: But we thought maybe it was related to some interestlist changes so I looked into it anyway.
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: I've had unexplained crashes on BS and LT every 2 - 3 day ssince Since 13.09.04.280593 was released and probably no unexplained crashes for a month prior
[12:57] Nalates Urriah: I was worried you were running out of things to do...
[12:57] Whirly Fizzle: Oh, was it the WARNING: LLSurface::decompressDCTPatch: Received invalid terrain packet then boom crash bug?
[12:58] Andrew Linden: If it's interestlist related I put it near the top of my list. I want to fix any problems I might have introduced.
[12:58] Andrew Linden: No Whirly, it was during the packing stage.
[12:58] Moon Corrigible: After the last 2(?) server updates, sometimes when I first rez an object the 'Touch' option is greyed out. Changing anything - changing groups, interacting with the object, teleporting etc etc fixes it just fine but I'm wondering if that is something that will get looked at in the future (so not a big deal)
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: also, still getting delayed script timing decay in regions with high script timing, textures ro mesh quantity
[12:58] Andrew Linden: But yeah, the land packet docompression code is fragile.
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: since 13.08.16.279995
[12:59] Andrew Linden: It should be able to discard bad data and re-request the land data.
[12:59] Wuf Shirabyoshi: oh yes, i was testing with sunlight settings, when i suddenly saw the water on our moat moving very fast. it was repreducable by just playing with the sunsettings.
[12:59] Andrew Linden: Moon, that is almost definitely a viewer bug -- the viewer UI state is not correct so it doesn't enable the touch.
[13:00] Rex Cronon: i had similar problems as moon
[13:00] Moon Corrigible: Pardon me while I facepalm
[13:00] Wuf Shirabyoshi: when you were a moon?
[13:00] Simon Linden: Moon - I realize that may be hard to reproduce but I don't recall a bug report like that ... I think it's worth filing one, and hopefully you can mention a place or type of object (complex? simple?) that shows it
[13:00] Andrew Linden: "delayed script timing decay"... what is that Wuf?
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ?
[13:01] Moon Corrigible: I will do that Simon thank you *grin*
[13:01] Andrew Linden: er... I meant Lucia
[13:01] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ah
[13:01] Andrew Linden: Lucia, what is "delayed script timing decay"?
[13:01] Wuf Shirabyoshi goes google that
[13:01] ANSI Soderstrom: tehre is no german word for this
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: I normally avg .162ms of script timing everywhere I go, and it usually takes 5 min to get that point, but since 13.08.16.279995 if I'm in regions with high texture or mesh counts or maybe low availabel script timing, it significantly delays up to 15 minutes to get to the avg
[13:02] Andrew Linden: surely there is a german word for it
[13:02] ANSI Soderstrom: hm
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: I wear a sript meter showing the top 10 script timing of all agents in a region and everyone is beign impacted
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: and I have't changed anything on me of teh regions I've been monitoring for over a year
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: since 13.08.16.279995 decay is delayed significantly
[13:03] ANSI Soderstrom: did anyone ever tried to rename a script while its in a loop ? you cant do it because the inventory of the object refresh every 1 second
[13:04] Simon Linden: What is it like before it settles on that time?
[13:04] Andrew Linden: so if I were to rephrase... your avg script timing tends to grow up to 0.162 and typically takes 5 min to max out, but now sometimes takes 15 min to reach max?
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: no, I enter a region and reported script time is high of course but decays longer than before
[13:05] Andrew Linden: ah, the relaxation period is longer...
[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: somethign is impacting it
[13:05] Andrew Linden: I don't have an idea. Kelly?
[13:05] Kelly Linden: I can not think of anything that has changed in the last year that would cause that.
[13:06] Rex Cronon: pathfinding;)
[13:06] Simon Linden: I can't think of why it would change over time
[13:06] Kelly Linden: Pathfinding should not have an effect on the rate that script time decays
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: I just wondered if anything has been changed in prioty with resources
[13:06] Wuf Shirabyoshi can easilly think of 10 reasons
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: *priority
[13:06] Simon Linden: Are the scripts doing anything different over that time?
[13:06] Andrew Linden: Lucia, definitely correlated with 13.08.16.279995 you say?
[13:06] Lucia Nightfire: thats when I started seeing it
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: I'm always monitorign our guests usage and its quite apparent, esp when my own usage starts showing lwo decay over time
[13:07] Andrew Linden: Well, I'll try to look back to see what that release was about.
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: esp when I haven't changed anything on me in years
[13:08] Wuf Shirabyoshi: maybe now is the time for that then?
[13:08] Simon Linden: I need to get going ... thanks everyone for coming today
[13:08] Rex Cronon: pixels r imortal
[13:08] Lucia Nightfire: laters
[13:08] Ima Mechanique: thanks Lindens
[13:08] ANSI Soderstrom: thanks for watching
[13:08] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:08] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
[13:08] Moon Corrigible: Thank you!
[13:08] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[13:08] Nalates Urriah: Thx Lindens
[13:08] Wuf Shirabyoshi: thanks for thinking with me
[13:08] Rex Cronon: btw regarding the tos. it seems so many people "love" it that a boycot of the mp and uploads has started to be organize on october 12,13 and 14
[13:08] ANSI Soderstrom: Rex Cronon is talking about "love"
[13:08] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks Lindens!
[13:08] Dolma Dollinger: Thanks!
[13:09] Kennylex Luckless: cow
[13:09] Melvin Starbrook: tank you :))
[13:09] Andrew Linden: 279995 was a maintenance release...
[13:09] Andrew Linden: there is a misc of changes there
[13:09] Wuf Shirabyoshi: *grin*
[13:09] Wuf Shirabyoshi: so she might be right
[13:09] Kelly Linden: none of them related to scripts, andrew.
[13:10] Wuf Shirabyoshi: but maybe to resources
[13:10] Andrew Linden: actually, there was some work on some llListen() stuff in there
[13:10] Dolma Dollinger: It gives trust you are still doing this. We see too few Lindens lately
[13:10] Lucia Nightfire: the onyl thing I can think of is a change in priority in resource handling thats affecting script time decay
[13:10] Lucia Nightfire: such as prioritizing texture and mesh rendering or soemthing
[13:10] Andrew Linden: what call is being used to measure script time?
[13:11] Lucia Nightfire: llGetObjectDetails()
[13:11] ANSI Soderstrom: llGetTIme
[13:11] Lucia Nightfire: OBJECT_SCRIPT_TIME
[13:12] Lucia Nightfire: or was there some change in thresholds/priorities for certain LSL function with high frequency use?
[13:12] Lucia Nightfire: like sensors for one?
[13:12] Andrew Linden: I was looking at the list of changes. Nothing obvious.
[13:13] Andrew Linden: And I don't think that project had any code changes that I wrote.
[13:13] Ima Mechanique: I gotta run, bye all
[13:13] Wuf Shirabyoshi: are there still servers with a version older then 13.08.16.279995?
[13:13] Andrew Linden ducks the blame.
[13:13] Lucia Nightfire: I wish, heh
[13:13] Wuf Shirabyoshi: you'd live there...
[13:13] Wuf Shirabyoshi: bye ima
[13:13] Moon Corrigible: lol Andrew
[13:13] Wuf Shirabyoshi: ducks the blame?
[13:14] ANSI Soderstrom: i didnt do it
[13:14] Kennylex Luckless: no anvil to duck for?
[13:14] Petr Topaz: passing the buck
[13:14] Petr Topaz: lol
[13:14] Rex Cronon: tc ima
[13:14] Andrew Linden: Yeah, I don't think it was my fault. Whew!
[13:14] Wuf Shirabyoshi: melvin, ask one too!
[13:14] Mona Eberhardt: Are we going to have peking ducks?
[13:14] Lucia Nightfire: it just sucks that I'm having to wait 2 - 3 times as long to see if an agent's time is averaging out to a high value
[13:14] Kennylex Luckless: take care and have fun, I go home now.
[13:14] Petr Topaz: it was a typo
[13:15] Simon Linden: take it easy - I'm heading off
[13:15] Lucia Nightfire: as many people are entering the region with high times that linger for quite awhile now, even with near 0 scripts...
[13:15] Mona Eberhardt: an anvil's black and shiny
[13:15] ANSI Soderstrom: have a nice day all
[13:15] Petr Topaz: Bye Have a good day
[13:15] Simon Linden: lol - I like those ducks
[13:15] ANSI Soderstrom: ouch
[13:15] Mona Eberhardt: See you, Simon!
[13:15] Lucia Nightfire: later Simon
[13:15] Mona Eberhardt: It's very heavy too
[13:15] ANSI Soderstrom: send the lindens some love, they need it
[13:15] ANSI Soderstrom: ANSI Soderstrom is talking about "love"
[13:15] Andrew Linden: Lucia did you file a bug? I'm not sure I know how to reproduce the measurement.
[13:15] Melvin Starbrook: hihi ty :))
[13:15] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[13:15] Mona Eberhardt: So watch out my furry friend or one will fall on you.
[13:15] Lucia Nightfire: thats the problem, I'm almost certain it will get the same treatment, "Cannot reproduce"
[13:16] Wuf Shirabyoshi loves duckmeat
[13:16] Lucia Nightfire: there has to be a comparison to the old behaviour
[13:16] Mona Eberhardt caresses laggy
[13:16] Wuf Shirabyoshi: want one mona?
[13:16] Wuf Shirabyoshi: they're free
[13:16] Lucia Nightfire: I'd need a region of my choosing to be placed on aditi using a release older then 13.08.16.279995
[13:16] Wuf Shirabyoshi: hihihi
[13:16] Rex Cronon: i heard ducks signed a petition: please eat chcikens they test better:)
[13:16] Lucia Nightfire: soem kind of benchmark
[13:17] Andrew Linden: That could be arranged Lucia.
[13:17] Rex Cronon: taste better*
[13:17] Wuf Shirabyoshi loves chicken too
[13:17] Andrew Linden: Also, there might already be one on aditi somewhere.
[13:17] Andrew Linden: er... an older version anyway
[13:17] Andrew Linden: would have to move a region over to it
[13:17] Lucia Nightfire: the only variable is people though, heh, but a region is a start
[13:18] Wuf Shirabyoshi takes a region out of her pocket
[13:18] Wuf Shirabyoshi: where you want it?
[13:18] Lucia Nightfire: can you move the region Kenophobe over to aditi if possible
[13:18] Melvin Starbrook: theres a penguin on aditi :P
[13:18] Melvin Starbrook: and bear :)
[13:18] Melvin Starbrook: hihi
[13:18] Andrew Linden: what's the numerical difference between initial avg script time and final script time?
[13:18] Lucia Nightfire: that bug is most previlent in that region, despite seeing it in most high traffic sandbox regions
[13:18] Lucia Nightfire: it has textures, mesh and people
[13:19] Lucia Nightfire: the difference is decay, the start and end vary
[13:19] Lucia Nightfire: or rather
[13:19] Lucia Nightfire: the start varies
[13:19] Lucia Nightfire: the avg is always the same
[13:19] Lucia Nightfire: the decay is what is prolonged
[13:19] Wuf Shirabyoshi *mews*
[13:19] Andrew Linden: hrm...
[13:19] Rex Cronon: maybe someboy is using one of those sim script lagger?
[13:20] Lucia Nightfire: I thought it was for attachment sonly, but its affecting all scripted objects
[13:20] Lucia Nightfire: *only
[13:20] Lucia Nightfire: no Rex
[13:20] Lucia Nightfire: I have better control of my regions than LL, heh
[13:20] Andrew Linden: so what you would like to see is a rapid relaxation from the initial value to the final value
[13:20] Lucia Nightfire: I know when stuff is going on
[13:20] Andrew Linden: or better yet, just a flat stat
[13:21] Lucia Nightfire: I would like to see the same decay time as before 13.08.16.279995
[13:21] Andrew Linden: that is, you would prefer that the stat be correct from the start
[13:21] Andrew Linden: yeah, but why a decay at all?
[13:21] Rex Cronon: memory leak
[13:21] Lucia Nightfire: well that is another arguement
[13:21] Rex Cronon: ?
[13:21] Lucia Nightfire: one that had a jira filed too
[13:22] Lucia Nightfire: by Moy I believe, heh
[13:22] Andrew Linden: a lower stat is better, right? less time spent running the script?
[13:22] Lucia Nightfire: imo, I'd also rather have a flat timing, but there may be a valid arguement why avg over 30 min is necessary too
[13:23] Andrew Linden: well, I don't know if I'll have much time to look into it
[13:23] Andrew Linden: but I"ll try to bring Kenophobe up on aditi for you
[13:23] Wuf Shirabyoshi claws to flying fishy
[13:23] Andrew Linden: in fact, I'll need to bring two copies up
[13:23] Lucia Nightfire: I certainly won't have an answer even if I could validate a difference between a aditi test region and the one on agni
[13:24] Lucia Nightfire: I just know theres a change, heh
[13:24] Andrew Linden: one on an old version and one on a new simulator
[13:24] Lucia Nightfire: not the cause
[13:24] Lucia Nightfire: ok, great, Andrew, most appreciated
[13:24] Andrew Linden: well, a repro is important
[13:24] Andrew Linden: if we can't repro any change then we'll have trouble actually trying to fix it
[13:24] Lucia Nightfire: indeed
[13:25] Andrew Linden: later today Lucia. I'll send you an IM when I have the regions up.
[13:25] Andrew Linden: but I'm going to go get some food first.
[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: ok, I'll keep my eye for it and report to you anythign I find
[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: thanks
[13:25] Lucia Nightfire: sorry if I put the meeting into overtime, heh
[13:25] Petr Topaz: byeeee
[13:25] Wuf Shirabyoshi: 25 mins!
[13:25] Andrew Linden: cheers
[13:25] Melvin Starbrook: Eep!
[13:25] Rex Cronon: stopping chat logger
[13:26] Lucia Nightfire: go chat logger, go
[13:26] Mona Eberhardt: Take care, Andrew!
[13:26] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex.
[13:26] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Andrew.
[13:26] Lucia Nightfire: what was that website again, Rex?
[13:26] Rex Cronon: u can see what was talked here: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[13:26] Lucia Nightfire: ty
[13:27] Rex Cronon: i can't keep it for long though
[13:27] Rex Cronon: only a few days
[13:27] Wuf Shirabyoshi: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Texture_Console
[13:27] Moon Corrigible: Oh that so rocks!
[13:27] Moon Corrigible: Thank you!
[13:27] Rex Cronon: u welcome yuzuru, lucia
[13:27] Lucia Nightfire: cliped at 46 minute in
Simulator_User_Group
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