Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.03.02

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.02.28	Next 2012.03.06
== List of Speakers ==
Analog Vasser 	Andrew Linden	Ardy Lay
Draconis Neurocam 	Falcon Linden	Fancy Detector
Flip Idlemind 	IEvangeline 	Johan Laurasia
Kadah Coba 	Kelly Linden 	Lexi Watkin
MartinRJ Fayray 	Moundsa Mayo 	Nalates Urriah
pablo Dubrovna 	prelag 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi
Siana Gearz 	Simon Linden 	Talarus Luan
TankMaster Finesmith	Vincent Nacon	xstorm Radek
== Transcript ==
[16:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sorry, midnight, I'm tired. :(
[16:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.
[16:02] xstorm Radek: hi andrew
[16:02] Simon Linden: well, it sounds interesting. If it can reduce texture memory a bit, it might really help in some cases
[16:02] Johan Laurasia: Hey Andrew
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Hey, we have a new fancy conference table!
[16:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: As I mentioned, it's reduced my video memory usage a lot.
[16:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: But right now, the UI also gets compressed - so that shows some oddness...
[16:03] Analog Vasser: with a land impact of 60. heh
[16:03] Johan Laurasia: little change of pace Andrew
[16:03] Simon Linden: I increased the object return time so it should last for the whole user group :)
[16:04] Siana Gearz: hellowies.
[16:04] Johan Laurasia: oh, cool, I was worried bout that
[16:04] Johan Laurasia: lol
[16:04] Siana Gearz: over here tank, free seat.
[16:04] xstorm Radek: why not get a copy and save it to land group simon ?
[16:04] xstorm Radek: it is a nice table
[16:05] Simon Linden: it's also no-copy
[16:05] Johan Laurasia: I'll give you a copy SImon
[16:05] TankMaster Finesmith: purdy table
[16:05] Siana Gearz: also it's shaped like a lemon, which is sour.
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Simon and Kelly, could you lead the meeting without me for a few min? I've got a crowd showing up at my desk demanding my attention.
[16:05] Johan Laurasia: lol
[16:05] Simon Linden: Oh, thanks
[16:05] Analog Vasser: it is very nicely shaped :)
[16:05] xstorm Radek: ok slap my paws i forgot no godmade
[16:06] Simon Linden: ok, I can wing it ... the rollouts to the RC regions on Wednesday went fine. Nothing blew up or caused big surprises, fortunately
[16:07] Simon Linden: There was another region crossing bug discovered, so at this point we're looking to promote the bug fix branch to the main channel on Tuesday
[16:07] xstorm Radek: not even one error ?
[16:07] Vincent Nacon whispers: sorry i'm late, gotta cook dinner, rawr!
[16:07] Vincent Nacon: ahh nice table... about time
[16:08] Simon Linden: Nothing that's been brought to my attention
[16:08] xstorm Radek: what type crossing bug ?
[16:08] Simon Linden: I think it's a region crash, but I'm not sure -- possibly getting stuck
[16:09] xstorm Radek: region crash sounds interesting :) i like to repro it
[16:09] Simon Linden: The regular blog post is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2012-02-27/td-p/1404523
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: can someone IM me the news if I missed any?
[16:09] Siana Gearz: it's 2012. the year in which the world is going down. nothing else.
[16:09] Simon Linden: So next week the looser throttle on llGiveInventory should go grid-wide
[16:10] Vincent Nacon: oh cool, you're one of the crazies... so you're gonna get fired on 12/12/12?
[16:10] Talarus Luan: 12/21/12
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: slow day then?
[16:11] Simon Linden: Speaking of the forums, if you can't access http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Simulator-Discussion-Group/ct-p/engine_room and would like to, please send me an IM and I'll get you access during breaks today
[16:12] Simon Linden: The only requirement is that you are reasonably sane
[16:12] xstorm Radek: I think some one may need to look at the assets server do to bad or missing UUID items it may help
[16:12] Simon Linden: or can RP a sane person
[16:12] Vincent Nacon: oh that's half of us, Simon
[16:12] Lexi Watkin: sane...... well im out
[16:12] Talarus Luan: I'm unreasonably INsane. Does that qualify due to the double-negative? O.o
[16:12] Kadah Coba: Fixed number of chairs?
[16:13] Andrew Linden: ok, I'm back (I think)
[16:13] xstorm Radek: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
[16:13] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what's going into the RC channels next week ... we don't have another maintenance release ready yet, so that might make the following week
[16:13] Vincent Nacon: you think? odd timing to talk about who's sane
[16:13] Simon Linden: Good timing Andrew ... any news?
[16:13] Andrew Linden: The only news I've got is lack of progress on two fronts:
[16:14] xstorm Radek: :(
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: oy
[16:14] Andrew Linden: (1) I'm still working (on the side) on getting the LSL syntax updated.
[16:14] Draconis Neurocam: yay
[16:14] Andrew Linden: I did get all the tooltip hover text converted from the viewer to the server
[16:14] xstorm Radek: yep that needs it
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: nice
[16:14] Talarus Luan: YOu mean the server-supplied editor syntax highlighting?
[16:14] Andrew Linden: (there were some edits and typo fixes in one of the xml files on the viewer)
[16:14] Talarus Luan: Sounds like it. :P
[16:15] xstorm Radek: when do you think the LSL will be updated ?
[16:15] Andrew Linden: so that is done, and I have a script that can backport the same strings from the server code into XML tooltips stuff again
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: and other?
[16:15] Andrew Linden: however, I'm working on the keywords.ini file, and did not finish
[16:15] Andrew Linden: turns out the server side of that does not have any description text
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: no rush needed there I'd say
[16:16] xstorm Radek: eeeewwww
[16:16] Andrew Linden: so for the missing keywords I have to do research for each one to figure out what it does
[16:16] Andrew Linden: which makes the progress slow
[16:16] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:16] Draconis Neurocam: i can imagine
[16:16] Andrew Linden: on front (2) I'm supposed to write a script to enable encroachment return on the mainland. I didnt' get to that this week.
[16:16] xstorm Radek: good test server aditi for that
[16:17] Andrew Linden: That's all I've got.
[16:17] Ardy Lay: Would 0.8-1.3 ms for physical step on server be reasonable? Region name is Trotsdale Estates and they are having teleport issues.
[16:17] Ardy Lay: Trying to help them troubleshoot.
[16:18] Andrew Linden: Falcon says he might show up later this hour.
[16:18] Simon Linden: OK, Kelly says he doesn't have news, so the lemon-table is open for topics
[16:18] Vincent Nacon: ah ok, good
[16:18] xstorm Radek: ? more teleport problems ? i seen a jira about that
[16:18] Vincent Nacon: is Davido here?
[16:18] Andrew Linden: Ardy, that doesn't sound like an unreasonable time spent per frame in the physics engine.
[16:19] prelag: im stuck in the house
[16:19] Vincent Nacon: ah good, he's not here, that way he can't harrass Falcon with vehicle stuff today
[16:19] Andrew Linden: a frame is 22.2 msec total (at 45fps)
[16:19] Talarus Luan: We've got a region that lags at the drop of a hat and loses comms with its neighbors occasionally, but most of the time, the top scripts/collisions are really low.
[16:19] Flip Idlemind: I have a couple topics (abstract ideas, really) I wanted to bring up on Tuesday, but forgot, then I wanted to bring up yesterday, but forgot
[16:20] prelag: hello everyone
[16:20] Andrew Linden: Greetings prelag.
[16:20] Talarus Luan: I guess we need to put in a ticket for that. We're still investigating, though
[16:20] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Flip.
[16:20] prelag: i was told by someone this was a meeting place for ideas
[16:20] Flip Idlemind: First is I was talking with some people and we had this idea, would it be possible / reasonable / desirable to make some sort of per-parcel #of avatars limit?
[16:20] Andrew Linden: What region Talarus?
[16:20] Flip Idlemind: Like you can currently do by region
[16:20] Talarus Luan: Lyre
[16:20] Vincent Nacon: well, yes, idea.... but what kind of ideas?
[16:21] Vincent Nacon: this is a server/physic related meeting
[16:21] Simon Linden: Why would you want that, Flip?
[16:21] Johan Laurasia: not a bad idea
[16:22] Kelly Linden: How would it be set or who would set it?
[16:22] Johan Laurasia: keep lag down at popular spots
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: or some kind of game system?
[16:22] Johan Laurasia: some nice spots are unvisitable due to 50 avatars in the sim
[16:22] Kadah Coba: Prevent mainland regions from getting full because one parcel is full of bots?
[16:22] Flip Idlemind: Suppose this meeting, for example, was so large (100 people) that you wanted to split it in two, so you wanted to have 50 of us go to one parcel and 50 of us go to the other
[16:22] Flip Idlemind: But isntead 90 of us went to one, and 10 went to the other
[16:22] prelag: well, i have an idea also, althought it may be impractical
[16:23] Talarus Luan: Tell us anyway; we're always looking for really good impractical ideas. :D
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: Prelag, you can IM me about your idea to see if you're in the right place for it
[16:23] prelag: well, i have yet to see anything in this game that takes place in a space station
[16:23] prelag: or space for that matter
[16:23] pablo Dubrovna: i have
[16:23] Flip Idlemind: You haven't looked enough
[16:23] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Deshima is a space station.
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: oh you want gravity-free zone?
[16:23] prelag: well
[16:23] Moundsa Mayo: Check out Doomed Ship
[16:24] prelag: i was thinking about being able to pilot my own ship
[16:24] Simon Linden: Open ctrl-f to open the search panel, and type something in there
[16:24] pablo Dubrovna: NASA has a space sim
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: you can.... with LSL scripting
[16:24] Simon Linden: You'll find plenty of space oriented stuff
[16:24] xstorm Radek: i do not think people may wish to trust the FPS statistics when Sim FPS and Physics FPS read the same all the time this looks more like a error in statistics reading
[16:24] prelag: i see, what about the sexual part of the game
[16:24] Talarus Luan: That's all in Zindra
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: ....what?
[16:24] Simon Linden: xstorm - those are locked together, actually. We should get rid of the physics number
[16:24] prelag: can you guys see it taking an oregon trail type road
[16:25] Andrew Linden: server lag is per-region, so limiting just a parcel of it doesn't gaurantee much help
[16:25] prelag: for example, i want to be able to have sexual encounters with other people
[16:25] Andrew Linden: avatar density also affects render lag
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: oy..
[16:25] prelag: but i feel there should be reprocussions
[16:25] prelag: is there a way to introduce STD's
[16:25] xstorm Radek: yes or make it read the physics of the region
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: Prelag, I should let you know that now it isn't the time
[16:25] Andrew Linden: so I guess a per-parcel avatar limit might affect viewer lag more than anything else
[16:25] prelag: much like oregon trail introduced disease?
[16:25] Johan Laurasia: right andrew, so you have to have a majority hold on the sim anyway
[16:25] prelag: vincent, should i come back at a later time?
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: we're not game developers for Linden Lab.
[16:26] Johan Laurasia: so what it boils down to is you have to move if you're in too lagy of a sim, which is understandable
[16:26] xstorm Radek: plus calls to the assets server
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: but you can make that game yourself though
[16:26] Johan Laurasia: it's not like there aren't no lag places
[16:26] prelag: oh, i thought this was a place to ask for developer requests
[16:26] prelag: what exactly goes on here
[16:26] Simon Linden: I guess parcel AV limits could be used to spread people around, or maybe limit the number of people in one club or shop
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: no, sorry
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: more of a development and bug hunting fix
[16:26] prelag: i see
[16:26] Draconis Neurocam: i could really only see it being useful on mainland flip
[16:27] prelag: well, is video chat in development>?
[16:27] IEvangeline: What about those raid boards in some shops
[16:27] Johan Laurasia: it's already here
[16:27] prelag: i have run into quite a few ham beasts on SL
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: not video
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: but voice, yes
[16:27] prelag: and they refuse to use their webcams
[16:27] Talarus Luan: I think video chat would be counter to the entire point of living in a virtual world. :P
[16:27] Johan Laurasia: I disagree
[16:27] prelag: i think we should use video cha
[16:27] prelag: t
[16:27] Johan Laurasia: you can do video now
[16:27] Simon Linden: It's easy to do video chat via media-on-a-prim
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: oh that
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:28] Johan Laurasia: right simon
[16:28] Johan Laurasia: I was doing it the other day
[16:28] Flip Idlemind: So my second thought is, and Im not even sure if this would be possible but that's why I'm asking, would it be possible to limit who on your region can use voice?
[16:28] Flip Idlemind: In the same way you can currently do it with "Avatar Sounds"
[16:28] Vincent Nacon: hmm
[16:28] Johan Laurasia: webcam, ustream, a prim and media prim params
[16:28] TankMaster Finesmith: based on roles you mean, flip?
[16:29] Flip Idlemind: Something like that
[16:29] prelag: one last thing vincent
[16:29] Draconis Neurocam: that would be an interesting group role feature
[16:29] TankMaster Finesmith: i can see that being useful
[16:29] Flip Idlemind: And by use voice I mean talk on it. Basically we want everyone to hear, but only certain people to be able to talk
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: yes?
[16:29] prelag: the big bird in the room
[16:29] Andrew Linden: Flip, in theory that is possible. It would just require work, to expose voice control to Estate Managers, I think.
[16:29] Flip Idlemind: Like, for classes
[16:29] prelag: he teleported me here and told me to say evil nasty things
[16:29] Simon Linden: That's an interesting point, Flip. The permissions are a mixed-bag -- some are just on/off toggles, others can be applied to everyone or groups
[16:29] Johan Laurasia: and prelag, you'll find alot of people enjoy the anonymity of SL
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: awesome
[16:29] Siana Gearz: don't think sitting on the head of the oldest person at the table is that wonderful an idea.
[16:29] prelag: said that you guys were child molestors
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: just don't hope the lindens won't ban you :)
[16:30] prelag: and that i have been misled
[16:30] prelag: but i now see that is not the case
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: well the bird's gone now
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: you're free to go
[16:30] TankMaster Finesmith: would be useful for some office hour type of deals where you want everyone to hear the speakers, but not be able to talk unless you are actually supoe to be
[16:30] Simon Linden: THat's a result of the ongoing evolution, but if we had the time, it would be nice to clean it up someday
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: lool
[16:30] Talarus Luan: Don't believe everything you read/hear/see on the intarwebs, yo
[16:30] prelag: yes, because he is trying to get me into trouble
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] prelag: im sorry, i am new
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: we noticed
[16:30] prelag: i will leave you to it
[16:30] Johan Laurasia: Hey prelag, do you think you can get off of Andrew
[16:30] Johan Laurasia: because he's old
[16:30] Johan Laurasia: real old
[16:30] Johan Laurasia: lol
[16:30] Andrew Linden: thx
[16:31] prelag: ok guys
[16:31] prelag: good luck
[16:31] Andrew Linden: no worries
[16:31] Simon Linden: Right, you could have a "lecture mode" for more of a broadcast type of presentation on voice
[16:31] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Well, that was interesting...
[16:31] Talarus Luan: Nah.. happens a lot. :P
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: just another day in office
[16:31] Ardy Lay: Hmm.... do group calls have something like that?
[16:31] Talarus Luan: We're only a few sims away from waterhead... Green Dot Syndrome. :P
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: maybe... I think
[16:32] Simon Linden: They might, I'm not sure
[16:32] xstorm Radek: aaawww they did not give me time to AR them :(
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: with voice
[16:32] Johan Laurasia: lol, green dot
[16:32] Draconis Neurocam: i don't think you can with group voice calls
[16:32] Johan Laurasia: I dont think he was new if he's showing up at user group meetings making "requests"
[16:32] Fancy Detector: Falcon Linden has arrived!
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: glad they left before Falcon came
[16:32] Flip Idlemind: In a related idea, it would be nice if (let's say) estate managers could individually mute someone (meaning, make them not be able to speak while on their sim)
[16:32] xstorm Radek: hi Falcon
[16:33] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: It's a Falcon.
[16:33] Andrew Linden: btw Talarus, I looked at some per -minute stats on Lyre, and didn't see a lag event so far today. But, it could have lasted less than 1 min and not shown up.
[16:33] Siana Gearz: i wonder whether Andrew is the oldest person left in all SL.
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: cause he would Falcon Punch them
[16:33] Simon Linden: I would assume so, Siana
[16:33] Johan Laurasia: right Siana
[16:33] Ardy Lay: Some of the Tester accounts are pretty old.
[16:33] Johan Laurasia: that's what I was alluding to
[16:33] Talarus Luan: Okies. Thanks for looking; we're going to investigate it some more. I wouldn't even bring it up except due to the adjoining region comms issues
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: am I only one here with grey hairs?
[16:34] Talarus Luan doesn't have hair
[16:34] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Mine is pure white.
[16:34] Draconis Neurocam: it would probably be andrew and dan
[16:34] Ardy Lay: Probably not 10 years olf though.
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: can't tell if Kelly is old...
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: anywho, welcome back Falcon
[16:35] Falcon Linden: Hey folks
[16:35] Johan Laurasia: Hey Falcon
[16:35] Vincent Nacon whispers: any news you'd like to share?
[16:35] xstorm Radek: have a seat falcon
[16:35] IEvangeline: LINDEN PAAAUNCH
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: oy... stupid whisper function
[16:35] Falcon Linden: xstorm, nice to see you back on the grid
[16:35] Falcon Linden: but that's all right, I like my box :)
[16:36] Siana Gearz: oh sorry it became dense -.-
[16:36] TankMaster Finesmith: fun fact of the day: 80% of the logins are now on a mesh capable viewer :D
[16:36] Falcon Linden: In any case, I wanted to note that we're about to deploy a new version of the alpha pathfinding code which contains support for collisions with characters
[16:36] xstorm Radek: ty had to fix bugs and hunt some down
[16:36] Falcon Linden: so characters can receive collide() events and will interact properly with volume detect objects
[16:36] IEvangeline: Uh oh
[16:36] Flip Idlemind: Coolio
[16:36] Talarus Luan: Cool. :)
[16:36] Falcon Linden: Or at least, they should
[16:36] Talarus Luan: When can we play with it? :D
[16:37] Falcon Linden: In the case of a single, box-shape volume detect object and one character, it seems to do the right thing ;)
[16:37] Siana Gearz: oh i'm sure this question has been asked and answered before, do the pathfinding toys work in an attachment?
[16:37] Siana Gearz: (sorry)
[16:37] Falcon Linden: Also, all objects can now use collision_start and collision_end, not just volume detect
[16:37] Ardy Lay: We will break that, Falcon. ;-)
[16:37] Falcon Linden: siana: not yet, but we could fairly easily add that down the road
[16:37] Siana Gearz: i see, thank you.
[16:37] Falcon Linden: ardy: no doubt, and then I will yank the feature and we'll move on :)
[16:37] xstorm Radek: wow thats great news falcon
[16:37] Johan Laurasia: I have an idea concerning pathfinding, or am I missing it, I'd like to be able to pass the object's key to the child object rezzed via llRezObject()
[16:38] xstorm Radek: lol
[16:38] Johan Laurasia: so for example, baby ducks can follow mama
[16:38] IEvangeline: Awww
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: ahh like carrying objects to other?
[16:38] Lexi Watkin: aww cute
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: or that
[16:38] Falcon Linden: I'm not sure I understand the problem
[16:38] MartinRJ Fayray: do you have the jra id for that?
[16:38] xstorm Radek: may be make a better trottle on rezzers lol
[16:38] Siana Gearz: wonder whether it's intended to allow us to rez rigged meshes in world and have them wear a shape and be animatable, essentially like avatar.
[16:38] MartinRJ Fayray: johan
[16:39] Talarus Luan: Oh.. that's a good suggestion.. any chance of getting an on_rez_ext(string psParam) - type event? :D I think there are at least 3 JIRAs for that.
[16:39] Johan Laurasia: I want to have an object rez an object, and pass the rezzer's key via a parameter
[16:39] xstorm Radek: throttle
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: what Siana said
[16:39] Johan Laurasia: llRezObject() passes an integer
[16:39] Falcon Linden: Siana: in the glorious future perhaps, but not as part of pathfinding
[16:39] MartinRJ Fayray: jira*
[16:39] Johan Laurasia: not a key
[16:39] Falcon Linden: ah, I see
[16:39] Siana Gearz: thanks <2
[16:39] Falcon Linden: you'll need to work around that, perhaps by passing a channel ID in llRezObject
[16:40] Johan Laurasia: mama duck rezzes 3 baby ducks who can be passed mama ducks key so llFollow() can be passed the key
[16:40] Simon Linden: Or use a random integer for the parameter, and listen back for it on a channel to begin communication. It's a bit of work, but can be done today
[16:40] Falcon Linden: if you wanted to do that, you'd really want each duck to communicate its key to the next duck in line so they follow a line :)
[16:40] Johan Laurasia: otherwise it's yelling out and listen events, it all gets to be alot of coding
[16:41] xstorm Radek: that will add up to a lot of UUID on the assets server
[16:41] Johan Laurasia: yeah, was thinking about that too Simon
[16:41] Falcon Linden: yeah, but greatly improving existing script communication functions was never in scope for pathfinding
[16:41] Falcon Linden: it's a happy coincidence of refactoring that you get the bonus collision_start/collision_end events :P
[16:42] Flip Idlemind: Yeah setting up communication between a rezzed object and its rezzer is a tiny bit tricky but it can be done and it's not extremely hard
[16:42] Siana Gearz: but LSL communication is an interesting and relevant topic.
[16:42] Flip Idlemind: You just have to make sure the rezzed object is "ready" to receive chat
[16:42] Falcon Linden: Also, terrain is no longer a heightfield for physics, it's now a mesh. Should make for more efficient collisions in many cases but may lead to tunneling of fast objects
[16:42] Falcon Linden: Siana: absolutely
[16:42] Vincent Nacon: hmm ok
[16:42] Siana Gearz: haaaa, that's surprising.
[16:42] Talarus Luan: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-853https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1606https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-191
[16:42] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-853] Change the rez parameter from integer to string
[16:42] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-1606] llRezObject "param" should be a string not an integer
[16:42] JIRA-helper: [#SCR-191] on_rez( integer start_param , string string_param) {} on_rez event needs a string param in addition to the existing integer start_param
[16:42] Siana Gearz: faster mesh than heightfield...
[16:42] Talarus Luan: There's three. :P
[16:43] Falcon Linden: the problem is that the heightfield was WAY too detailed
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: so... what about edge collision issue?
[16:43] Johan Laurasia: a string would be even better, yeah
[16:43] Falcon Linden: Vincent: it's a "welded" mesh, so normals should be corrected
[16:43] Johan Laurasia: string = anything
[16:43] xstorm Radek: is the mesh shape matching what the physics shape will bee ?
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: still...
[16:43] Draconis Neurocam: falcon now that it is a mesh does it understand water?
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: there are issue when object come collision a polygon face from the sideway
[16:43] Falcon Linden: draconis: nothing is really different about it other than the internal representation
[16:43] Siana Gearz: what happens if you make a terrain which has too many convexities close by each other? won't that behave a whole lot worse than height field?
[16:43] MartinRJ Fayray: svc-1606
[16:43] Falcon Linden: Vincent: yes, but not for this mesh, at least, there shouldn't be
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: so going over a "hill" can be too bouncy
[16:44] Falcon Linden: Siana: it'll be almost exactly as bad as what you would get if you used "set accurate-terrain enabled" previously
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: banked or valley would be ok
[16:44] Siana Gearz: didn't know where it can be enabled...
[16:44] Vincent Nacon: but over hills would be a problem
[16:44] Draconis Neurocam: sim console
[16:44] Falcon Linden: the thinking is that for /most/ regions which have fairly smooth terrain, you'll get a win in performance
[16:44] MartinRJ Fayray: (llRezObject should pass strnig instead of an integer)
[16:44] Falcon Linden: especially regions with lots of collisions ( liike race courses)
[16:45] MartinRJ Fayray: string*
[16:45] Siana Gearz: ok...
[16:45] Talarus Luan: Yeah.
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: I dunno..
[16:45] Falcon Linden: if we find it causes a performance problem, we may add an option to go back to a heightfield
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: I've already got bad result from Mesh prim
[16:45] Falcon Linden: it doesn't work like a mesh prim
[16:45] xstorm Radek: sounds like more work needs to be done and testing on mesh physics
[16:46] Falcon Linden: because of certain issues related to not knowing how you'd use a mesh prim, to data size and upload time, we couldn't support welding on uploaded meshes
[16:46] Siana Gearz: bad result, how vincent?
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: manly due to edge collision
[16:46] Falcon Linden: but we can on teh terrain because we know that it's the terrain and taking 15 seconds to preprocess that data on a background thread is acceptable
[16:46] Vincent Nacon: mainly*
[16:47] Siana Gearz: is there some page on that or so?
[16:47] Andrew Linden: Falcon, could you provide a brief explanation about what "welding" is?
[16:47] Siana Gearz: kind of want to get a mental picture which collision shapes have which probems.
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: welding is when two more polygon meets
[16:47] xstorm Radek: what about adding pre testuring to mesh parts befor merging them ?
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: some polygon don't share the same vertex
[16:47] Falcon Linden: Andrew: good thought
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: thus "edge" collision issue
[16:48] Falcon Linden: Welding is the process of looking at every triangle and all of its neighbors and storing information on how to handle collisions at the shared edge
[16:48] Falcon Linden: it prevents you from "bumping" at triangle transitions
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: or polygon
[16:48] Siana Gearz: but mesh collision doesn't work on polygons, it works on convex objects, or at least i thought...
[16:48] Andrew Linden: so welding provides more correct normals at the seams between triangles.
[16:49] Draconis Neurocam: what happens to something pathfinding over terrain that is being modified?
[16:49] Vincent Nacon: polygon is just a fancy name for triangle (but also means two triangles in one face)
[16:49] Siana Gearz: so i'm wondering what i have to learn for convex decomposition task... does it make sense to enlarge the convex hulls and have them always overlap? by how much?
[16:49] Falcon Linden: Siana: if you use the "analyze" functionality, you're correct. And if the object is physical, you're also correct. But if the mesh is not analyzed and is the /non/-physical object in a collision, its triangles are used
[16:49] Siana Gearz: hum, i don't understand... non physical in a collision?
[16:49] Talarus Luan: http://www.rhino3d.com/5/help/commands/weld.htm
[16:49] Falcon Linden: siana: no need for overlap, but overlap isn't a problem. The tool works pretty well. Just tell it how much detail you need and try to keep the total number of hulls and vertices down.
[16:50] Falcon Linden: siana: not dynamic
[16:50] xstorm Radek: why is not some of them steps made by the user on the CAD system they are using to make the mesh ?
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: it means it doesn't move, just locked in place
[16:50] Falcon Linden: xstorm: complexity of import implementation
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: static object
[16:50] Talarus Luan: Slightly different reason to use it, but similar concept.
[16:50] Andrew Linden: we don't use the "concave mesh" shape for mesh objects that tumble about (dynamic, aka "physical" according to the SL UI)
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: and Xstorm, most CAD use NURBS
[16:51] Andrew Linden: instead we use convex hulls or other convex shapes for meshy objects that collide dynamically
[16:51] Siana Gearz: Falcon, which tool have you been talking about?
[16:51] Falcon Linden: Siana: the "analyze" step in the mesh importer
[16:51] Siana Gearz: oh. well it's yours, it's proprietary.
[16:51] Siana Gearz: can't really use that :P
[16:51] Falcon Linden: I'm not sure I understand
[16:52] Falcon Linden: what are you trying to do?
[16:52] Falcon Linden: I thought you meant for importing into Second Life
[16:52] Siana Gearz: well i'm a TPV developer. i'm not sure what solution i'll end up for the importer yet, maybe Firestorm's solution verbatim.
[16:52] Falcon Linden: there is a GPL convex decomposition utility available on the interwebs
[16:52] Siana Gearz: but it's not the same as the one in Linden viewer due to license issues.
[16:53] Siana Gearz: and while i'm at it, i could consider poking at things and seeing what can be done better, if i know what problems we can create.
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: silly lawyers and their license
[16:53] TankMaster Finesmith: our mesh importer still doenst handle physics I believe
[16:53] Vincent Nacon sighs
[16:53] Falcon Linden: siana: your goal should be to balance accuracy with minimizing the number of hulls and, secondarily, the number of points in each hull
[16:53] Siana Gearz: tank, it does. contributed by nicky dasmijn.
[16:54] Siana Gearz: but the way she wrote it, is a bit meh style wise, not sure i want to trust it myself.
[16:54] Siana Gearz: doesn't really make it easy to verify.
[16:54] Falcon Linden: 6 minutes left. Anyone have any more questions for me?
[16:54] TankMaster Finesmith: ah, so she did get that working...
[16:54] Falcon Linden: Oh, and the new code should be available by tomorrow on the PathTest regions
[16:54] TankMaster Finesmith: oh good
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: uhh.... are you cold? need blanket? ...sorry, no questions for you at the moment
[16:54] Draconis Neurocam: what happens to something pathfinding over terrain that is being modified?
[16:54] Siana Gearz: how long does it take Simon Linden to get a bubble from his nose when he sleeps asit?
[16:55] Falcon Linden: please report bugs if you find them, this is bleeding edge code, fresh off my keyboard :)
[16:55] Simon Linden: 14 minutes, Siana
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: will do
[16:55] Siana Gearz: sorry :P
[16:55] TankMaster Finesmith: wya, available on a Saturday??
[16:55] TankMaster Finesmith: wait*
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: oh wait...
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Falcon Linden: draconis: the effects of terrain modification are delayed. When they do take effect, characters will behave the same as other dynamic objects, quite possibly ending up under the terrain
[16:55] Johan Laurasia: well, it's pretty stable for such young code
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: does this means we can apply friction setting for the terrain?
[16:56] Johan Laurasia: relatively speaking
[16:56] Falcon Linden: vincent: no. Some day, though...it wouldn't be hard...
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: alright
[16:56] Falcon Linden: Take a couple hours if it was done with the console
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: and some bounce!
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:56] Siana Gearz: and thanks falcon
[16:56] Falcon Linden: there is some code that tries to put it underground characters back on top
[16:56] Falcon Linden: Johan: thanks :)
[16:56] Johan Laurasia: yup
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: does it work ok with RayCast?
[16:56] Falcon Linden: tank: some is already available, I'm planning to deploy a fresh build later tonight
[16:56] Falcon Linden: vincent: yep
[16:57] Falcon Linden: or it should
[16:57] Falcon Linden: haven't tried casting against a character...
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: alright... can't think of other questions yet
[16:58] Falcon Linden: All right folks, have a great weekend!
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: aye, you too
[16:58] Kelly Linden: will we want to / be able to add a filter to llCastRay for characters?
[16:58] TankMaster Finesmith: you to, falcom
[16:58] Falcon Linden: kelly: maybe
[16:58] Johan Laurasia: You too Falcon
[16:58] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for the great work!
[16:58] Nalates Urriah: thx
[16:58] Draconis Neurocam: take care falcon
[16:58] Falcon Linden: kelly: we can talk later
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: keeping secret from us, eh?
[16:58] Kelly Linden: :D
[16:58] Falcon Linden: oh, one other thing not yet documented
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: yes?
[16:59] Falcon Linden: new parameter to llGetObjectDetails
[16:59] Falcon Linden: OBJECT_CHARACTER_TIME
[16:59] Draconis Neurocam: oooh
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: ah
[16:59] Falcon Linden: returns the average time in seconds used by the character per frame over the last 45 frames
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: fancy
[16:59] Falcon Linden: or 15 frames...one or the other
[16:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Andrew, if you have a moment, could you check the logs/status of a sim I'm an EM of that just crashed repeatedly around 4 times?
[16:59] Falcon Linden: use it well....both to detect when something is a character and to prevent yourself from being a CPU hog
[16:59] Andrew Linden: what region Sahkolihaa?
[16:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: FurNation Hell
[16:59] IEvangeline: Or how to be a major CPU hog xD
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: yeah, it'll be useful for racing event
[17:00] Falcon Linden: vanilla: EMs will be able to see the same data in the viewer and return your hogs :)
[17:00] IEvangeline: xD Yay!
[17:00] Falcon Linden: ciao!
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: seeya
[17:00] IEvangeline: I just know people who would try to have a hay day with some of that stuff
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Andrew Linden: hrm... looks like FurNation was attacked. Object count jumped from 8.5k to 14.2k between 14:25 and 14:34
[17:00] Talarus Luan: Thanks and have a great weekend, everyone. :)
[17:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: -.-
[17:01] Siana Gearz: so the static mesh which you say, which can be concave.. what does it ever have to collide against? prim/avatar capsule or whatever, prims, convex mesh?
[17:01] IEvangeline: Take care Talarus
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: he's gone
[17:01] Siana Gearz: never concave vs. concave?
[17:01] Andrew Linden: and crashed multiple times. I think it should get rolled back to 16:24?
[17:01] Andrew Linden: (I meant 16:25 not 14:25 earlier)
[17:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, another admin just said the sandbox is now clean after it came back up.
[17:01] Siana Gearz: cause polygon soup collisions against each other, ouch, i remember ODE with OPCODE, ouch ouch ouch. painfully slow.
[17:01] Andrew Linden: ah, yeah actually it looks like someone else already fixed it.
[17:02] IEvangeline: When do we get to the Non-Euclidean geometry?
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: oy
[17:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Thanks for looking for me.
[17:02] Draconis Neurocam: thanks andrew, simon, and kelly
[17:02] Andrew Linden: I've got to depart on time today.
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:02] Siana Gearz: when do we get to prove specific relativity theory in SL?
[17:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: See you, Lindens.
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: take care
[17:02] TankMaster Finesmith: falcon, when will the OBJECT_CHARACTER_TIME be avalible?
[17:02] IEvangeline: Aww
[17:02] IEvangeline: byebye
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: Falcon's gone
[17:02] xstorm Radek: mesh physics
[17:02] TankMaster Finesmith: oh darn
[17:03] xstorm Radek: trumpet mesh
[17:03] TankMaster Finesmith: anyone know then? :P
[17:03] Vincent Nacon: he left 3 minutes ago
[17:03] Siana Gearz: don't think falcon can year ya, tank.
Simulator_User_Group
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