User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2009-04-23

== Topic & Summary ==
User Experience Interest Group Discussion for April 23, 2009.
Topic: Communicate Window.
No summary is yet available for this meeting. Please edit this page to add one.
== Transcript ==
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Today's topic is... the infamous Communicate Window!
[15:10]	Charlette Proto: 	neta one could rebuild a whole sim from scratch, but some default offset coordinates could be usefull in moving builds
[15:12]	Garn Conover: 	McCabe knows what i want hehe
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	extra features - radars etc?
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	"It has been over a year and half since the introduction of the Communicate window, the combined window containing Friends, Groups, Local Chat, IMs, and Voice functionality. The Communicate window received much criticism when it was released, particularly for its bulky size and the lack of a way to separate the various functionalities back into their own windows."
[15:12]	Garn Conover: 	there is a radar per se
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	"Since then, LL has addressed -- at least partially -- some of the complaints, for example by adding the ability to tear off each section into a new window. But still, several well-known third-party viewers (including the Nicholaz Edition and Cool Viewer) have decided not to adopt the Communicate window, preferring to keep the old, separate windows."
[15:12]	Garn Conover likes the big window 	Garn Conover likes the big window
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	"How do you feel about the Communicate window? Do you like it better than the old UI, or do you think it was a step in the wrong direction? What do you like or dislike about it? Is there anything you would change about it?"
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	There's our topic :D
[15:13]	Garn Conover: 	hehe
[15:13]	Garn Conover: 	well i like it, i like having everything in one spot and if needed i can just rip it off
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	I actually like the consistency of the new version but continue to use 'Local Chat' in separate window
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	You don't have a problem with the larger size, Garn?
[15:14]	Charlette Proto: 	and prolly would prefare to tear off all IMs and keep chat in the main part
[15:14]	McCabe Maxsted wonders how many tear off their contacts list, chat history, etc 	McCabe Maxsted wonders how many tear off their contacts list, chat history, etc
[15:14]	Garn Conover: 	the only thing i tear off in main chat
[15:15]	Charlette Proto: 	not contacts but as I said I always tear off local chat
[15:15]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	May be vertical tabs solve the larger size
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Vertical tabs for each person you IM, and group chat, etc. Garmin?
[15:15]	Garn Conover: 	verticle tabs instead of on the bottom? its easier to see which tab is selected on the bottom i think
[15:16]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	yesand at right
[15:16]	McCabe Maxsted nods at garmin. It's an interesting change using veritcal tabs (you can do it with an xml edit). Sadly SL™ has some RIDICULOUSLY long user name character allowances.... 63 I think it was? 	McCabe Maxsted nods at garmin. It's an interesting change using veritcal tabs (you can do it with an xml edit). Sadly SL™ has some RIDICULOUSLY long user name character allowances.... 63 I think it was?
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ok
[15:16]	Azwaldo Villota: 	only ever tear off local chat, not very often
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes, that's one of the difficulties -- long user names, which can make the tabs very wide
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	could the tabs be limited in length like the tabs of the profile pics?
[15:17]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	I think the real problem is we cannot see new IM
[15:17]	Garn Conover: 	i think the only piss off i have with the communicate is the check boxes for the friends list *smirks* i miss the old one a lot
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	yep agrees
[15:17]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you mean the list gets too long garmin?
[15:18]	Garn Conover: 	ive never had that many open myself
[15:18]	Garn Conover: 	oh wait yes i have lol
[15:18]	Azwaldo Villota: 	dimensions of window are sometimes inconvenient, too large; sometimes move window off edge of viewer leaving enough to see when a particular IM updates
[15:18]	Azwaldo Villota: 	(dimensions when minimized)
[15:18]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	horizontally if we want to see a bit of the scene we cannot extend the IM window, but vertically each new IM takes same size
[15:19]	McCabe Maxsted: 	does anyone else ever feel that they're... hmm, how to put this. Switching between applications almost when they IM. For me, it's like I'm alt tabbing to an IM client when I open communicate. It takes up all teh 3D space
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(okay not all, but all the significant space)
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy morgaine, ella, dirk!
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted is glad you guys could make it :) 	McCabe Maxsted is glad you guys could make it :)
[15:20]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks for TP. I was in kitchen, totally forgot :-(
[15:20]	Garn Conover: 	join the club :)
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hehe
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Somebody IM me with topic pls :-)
[15:21]	Jacek Antonelli: 	We're talking about the Communicate Window :)
[15:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks J :-)
[15:22]	Charlette Proto: 	low res (laptop) screens would benefit if the window could be reduced in height further and the title bar elements were on one line
[15:24]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes, one of the big criticisms of the communicate window when it first came out, was how large it was.
[15:24]	Dirk Talamasca: 	It is not so terribly bad for me McCabe you can undock local chat and contacts.... One thing I would like to see is a search tab that can autocomplete names on my list as my list is insanely huge. I'd like to be able to get to the friend I want quickly and also filters to list those that are online or not
[15:24]	Charlette Proto: 	also the tabs could be crowded up (trimmed) when the names don't fit in the allocated space
[15:25]	Garn Conover: 	needs to be a limit tho Charlette
[15:25]	Charlette Proto: 	that is show all abreviated regardless of the width rather than hide some of them
[15:25]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I hate anything that takes up 3D real estate, but this is a hard one to fix.
[15:26]	Charlette Proto: 	well minimum would be 4 characters or so plus border
[15:26]	Garn Conover nods heads 	Garn Conover nods heads
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted has had a few ideas 	McCabe Maxsted has had a few ideas
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I think dirk really hit on something that's been a major pain for me
[15:27]	Garn Conover tickles mccabe with wing 	Garn Conover tickles mccabe with wing
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted: 	why the hell should we open up people search to find a name when we already have a list of people?
[15:27]	Charlette Proto: 	good point
[15:27]	Charlette Proto: 	text entry in the contacts pane
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you have to know if you're friends with someone before you go about trying to perform an action with them, such as a tp, in order to get it 100% right
[15:27]	McCabe Maxsted has always thought that silly 	McCabe Maxsted has always thought that silly
[15:28]	Charlette Proto: 	and 'Friends' does not have a 'Search' button like groups has
[15:29]	Dirk Talamasca: 	I wish we could just open a blank IM tab and type in a name to send a message instead of hunting in search..
[15:29]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Would this approach to dynamic chat window sizing make any sense? Chat windows, when in "dynamic" mode, have a natural height of zero lines. If something was said in last X minutes, they grow (drop down or rise up from top or bottom edge) by a certain number of lines, up to a maximum specified height. The more active the session, the more lines are shown, but it drops back to zero height when the channel goes quiet.
[15:29]	Garn Conover: 	nother pita, calling cards showing up for group invites, ar's and such lol.. but then im waitign for em to scrap em completely
[15:31]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Morgaine: Similar to how the chat works when you don't have Local Chat open? (The little bubbleish thing in the bottom left)
[15:31]	Charlette Proto: 	interesting point Morgaine
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I've heard such conflicting stories on dynamic resizing... it seems like 50/50 love/hate sometimes
[15:31]	Charlette Proto: 	precisely (like chat onscreen)
[15:31]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Jacek, yes, along those lines, but as a widget rather than background overlay.
[15:32]	Azwaldo Villota: 	Morgaine's got game!
[15:32]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I'm not sure it's a good idea. But I do know that I hate anything that obscures my 3D view.
[15:32]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Interesting thought. Although as McCabe says, resizing without any user action might be weird for some people. Could certainly be optional, I suppose.
[15:32]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Garn the calling cards issue is solved very nicely in the PN
[15:33]	Charlette Proto: 	personally I have my background overlay height set to one line, I hate the look of it so much, but that has nothing to do with dynamic behaviour of the window
[15:33]	Garn Conover: 	well i dont have the PN :P
[15:33]	Azwaldo Villota: 	("dynamic" sizing is a suggestion, right? not a feature from a non-LL viewer?)
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Well tough titties!
[15:33]	Garn Conover flicks smarks @ Dirk 	Garn Conover flicks smarks @ Dirk
[15:33]	Dirk Talamasca: 	LOL
[15:33]	Garn Conover: 	sparks*
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Correct, Azwaldo. I don't think there are any viewers with dynamic-resizing windows yet
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted nods 	McCabe Maxsted nods
[15:34]	Azwaldo Villota: 	ty
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe, how is it solved in the PN anyway? *curious*
[15:34]	Charlette Proto: 	I vote YES as an optional feature, but not sure if I'd like the visual disruption of it myself
[15:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Why do we have chat widgets, rather than background overlay? Is it purely for cut'n'paste?
[15:35]	Jacek Antonelli: 	One thing that appeals to me, is the idea of making the chat overlay be able to behave more like a window. Be able to move it around and resize it, add a scroll bar, etc.
[15:35]	Dirk Talamasca: 	When you open up an AR you have three tabs. You can search, you can view only calling cards or you can only view people within a specific range of your current location
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted: 	and scrolling, yeah
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	clarity morgaine
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Charlette: so could the chat overlay be made more clear instead?
[15:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Jacek: interesting idea
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	and repositionable
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted really likes that idea jacek 	McCabe Maxsted really likes that idea jacek
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted: 	what if it behaved like teh chat history when clicked or "activated" in some manner?
[15:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Jacek: Guild Wars has that: then you go into "UI Config Mode", every window outline is shown against the background and you can resize and reposition them.
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah. I was thinking there'd be a little strip at the top that you could grab and pull it away from the bottom of the screen to detach it, and it'd become more of a floater
[15:37]	Charlette Proto: 	so it would really be a transparent Chat widget
[15:37]	Jacek Antonelli: 	But still with a similar style to the overlay, the transparent background and such. Instead of the ugly normal floaters.
[15:38]	Dirk Talamasca: 	maybe a small tickbox in the upper left hand corner if you wanted it to remain open.. untick it and it fades as usual.
[15:38]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Good call
[15:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	HOWVER ... (***extremely important***, from EQ/AO experience) --> if you let background act as UI, then you MUST provide a means for the UI not to be affected by mouse actions, or it becomes a nightmare of unintended UI click interception.
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted: 	taking that further: should all windows become more trnasparrent over a length of time?
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	and good point morgaine. I absolutely hate Visual Studio's use of screen space for that same reason
[15:39]	Jacek Antonelli: 	True, true. It'd be pretty hard to click anything if you had a screen full of chat. And then some griefer would pick up on that fact and chat spam you
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I just noticed that I had a profile window open in the center of my screen and I couldn't see garn
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehehe
[15:40]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hehe
[15:40]	Charlette Proto: 	good use of a floater McCabe
[15:40]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	:)
[15:40]	Dirk Talamasca: 	That is intended behavior McCabe.. it was a feature request from Carl Metropolitan
[15:41]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well the answer to that is my "frame borders UI" suggestion, stolen from Zbrush :-))) Anything you use a lot, provide a means to drag it from a window to the UI frame.
[15:41]	McCabe Maxsted: 	it's on the JIRA, you mean?
[15:41]	Charlette Proto: 	I just mute Garn and show Muted Chat hehe
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted thinks there are a lot of silly "intended behaviors" floating about.... 	McCabe Maxsted thinks there are a lot of silly "intended behaviors" floating about....
[15:42]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes.
[15:42]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I just noticed something about Garn's red writing layed on top of his nearly-red wings: the text isn't bordered for contrast with surroundings.
[15:42]	Charlette Proto: 	how much is 'use it a lot'?
[15:42]	Garn Conover wonders why the hell he is muted in the first place 	Garn Conover wonders why the hell he is muted in the first place
[15:43]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Garn: it's automatic in 1.22.11 --- anything with 3 tails is auto-muted.
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted: 	random thought: do we need text for the buttons in the contact list? or can they be icons? It seems like they take up an enormous amount of chrome compared to other applications
[15:43]	Charlette Proto: 	to hide your over the top appearance (wings) Garn
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted: 	add, remove, plus/minus; skype has a really nice color coded system even
[15:44]	Garn Conover: 	no buttons
[15:44]	Garn Conover: 	its text on a background
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	think of noobs McCabe, they have a hard enoug time with the communicate UI as it is
[15:44]	Garn Conover: 	lol my wings are nothing
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	but I agree it could be an options
[15:44]	Garn Conover: 	my heads are 1k each ARC
[15:45]	McCabe Maxsted: 	what do noobs say is the hard part?
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	don't worry Garn I have larger ones too, but don't force you to look at them
[15:45]	Morgaine Dinova: 	McCabe: thinking
[15:45]	Garn Conover: 	Charlette ive got a stealth prim :) i can break 1mill easily
[15:46]	Charlette Proto: 	discovering the buttons in contacts
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hey Arawn :)
[15:47]	Charlette Proto: 	basically the Contacts doesn't have a great visibility to noobs and if it was more obscure (icons only) it would take longer to learn
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, because they're a different layout as opposed to the IM buttons?
[15:47]	Charlette Proto: 	perhaps McCabe, nobody seems to find it by themselves
[15:47]	McCabe Maxsted: 	intresting
[15:47]	Dirk Talamasca: 	I am kind of wondering if we need anymore than Profile and Remove there Morgaine. All other tasks can be performed by opening up the profile anyway. I think double clicking on the name to bring up the IM window is good enough. Why is a button needed for that?
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	alco Contacts could be made distinct like Local to help with that
[15:49]	Charlette Proto: 	one other point on the Communicate floater is that it really should be OPEN by default
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(AFK for a bit)
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted wonders if your contacts list popping up when you added a friend would be too much of an annoyance 	McCabe Maxsted wonders if your contacts list popping up when you added a friend would be too much of an annoyance
[15:49]	McCabe Maxsted: 	or perhaps, an option to view your contacts
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted: 	"You added Awesome McAwesomepants to your friends list. Click here to see your friends"
[15:50]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Some options on the info display might be handy
[15:50]	Dirk Talamasca: 	It would if you were in a meeting and typing out your escapades .. when suddenly 4 people want to friend you and you have to stop to clear your screen
[15:51]	Charlette Proto: 	it would be unnecessary for advanced users McCabe, but it would help noobs, the same as opening the inventory folder is generally a neusance but it does draw noobs' attention to the fact that things go it there
[15:51]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I think that the main reason people find the UI non-intuitive is because the bottom area buttons and the Communicate window are like no other app on the planet.
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you mean the toolbar?
[15:51]	Charlette Proto: 	true morgaine
[15:51]	Charlette Proto: 	two rows at the top would be more intuitive
[15:51]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well it doesn't even look like any other toolbar :-)
[15:52]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And the pulldown (pushup) window on the Communicate button is expecially secretive.
[15:52]	Dirk Talamasca: 	It is the windows taskbar without the ability to stack tasks
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm. I can't really think of an app that has nine buttons at the bottom that you can't do anything with. Windows 3.1 I think
[15:53]	Charlette Proto: 	the tear off buttons are a total mistery to noobs
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	have any of you ever experimented with hiding your toolbar?
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	view > toolbar
[15:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	uncheck the X
[15:54]	Arawn Spitteler wonders what hour to bring http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2688 to: I just posted a Jira, about the information with which group memebers get to manage bann lists. I've my chat window stretched all across the screen, and the tabs run all across; so layering our tabs would help a lot	Arawn Spitteler wonders what hour to bring http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2688 to: I just posted a Jira, about the information with which group memebers get to manage bann lists. I've my chat window stretched all across the screen, and the tabs run all across; so layering our tabs would help a lot
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	the title bar should accommodate the current pane title and the tear off buttons
[15:54]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Maybe a Basic Mode in which the Tear Off icon were replaced by a large button that says "TEAR OFF WINDOW" would help newbies.
[15:54]	Morgaine Dinova: 	But for Expert mode, leave as it.
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova: 	as it is.
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	not Morg read above - in the titlebar
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	why waste a whole line on two icons
[15:56]	Morgaine Dinova: 	We don't need it, I agree. But if newbies can't find i ...
[15:56]	McCabe Maxsted: 	that's something that needs serverside support arawn; as far as I know that's not sent to the viewer
[15:56]	Charlette Proto: 	Titlebar shout read "Communicate - Local Chat etc and have all window buttons in it
[15:57]	Harleen Gretzky: 	1.23 has a new Notifications Console where supposedly you can see when someone is estate banned, I will have to look for parcel bans
[15:57]	Arawn Spitteler: 	It's in an area where it isn't obvious, how much can be hacked Viewer Side. I'd also like to drag malefactors into IM Conferences, without needing their Calling Cards.
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted would be pleasantly surprised if it 	McCabe Maxsted would be pleasantly surprised if it
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova: 	HAHAHA ... I've just realized that the little pushpin to the right of the mini "Search" window at top right isn't a pushpin, it's a magnifying glass <sigh>
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	was
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	any opinions on the titlebar containing the content of the second line stuff???
[15:57]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha yeah
[15:58]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I'm not an estate officer, and there doesn't seem to be any information collected as to when and by whom a person is banned, let alone why.
[15:58]	McCabe Maxsted: 	lots of fun little stuff like that in here; it looks the same as the camera symbol in the tools window too
[15:58]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Charlette: which is the title bar? Same thing as the menu bar?
[15:59]	Harleen Gretzky: 	There nevr was for estates before either, but there are hundreds of cryptic notifications you can add to this console
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	Titlebar shout read "Communicate - Local Chat" etc and have all window buttons in it
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	titlebar in the floater
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	no need for two lines
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh, you mean where it says "Communicate" in small letters?
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	like titlebars in other apps (eg browsers) show app name and doc title
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	would it be handy if the IM window showed you the number of IMs open?
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	or docked, at least
[16:01]	Charlette Proto: 	yes and the line below reads "Local Chat" and wastes the real estate
[16:01]	Arawn Spitteler: 	What's meant by Redock Windows?
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrm. It would be nice if it would say how many windows have unread IMs!
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ooh, yes
[16:01]	Harleen Gretzky: 	When you tear them off, it untears tehm
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	If someone IMs me when my tabs are full, I most likely will not see it and will inadvertently ignore them for an hour
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted thinks he might have found his project for today :) hehe 	McCabe Maxsted thinks he might have found his project for today :) hehe
[16:02]	Azwaldo Villota: 	must away; thanks Jacek, cheers All
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	take care Azwaldo! See you next week :)
[16:02]	McCabe Maxsted: 	thanks for attending zawaldo :)
[16:03]	McCabe Maxsted: 	*azwaldo
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	What action causes the remote end to see that you're typing text in IM? Is it actually typing, or just moving mouse, or what?
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And if it's typing, is it typing in any box, or just in answer to them?
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli: 	It sends messages to the server when you start typing and when you stop typing
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Fun fact: if you don't receive the message that tells you someone stopped typing, they will seem to keep typing forever.
[16:04]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Often happens when people are crashing
[16:04]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yep
[16:04]	Arawn Spitteler: 	We seem to crash less often, lately
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	morgaine: did you have a feature idea? I find the typing info in the mystitool pretty handy
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I wonder if that can be put into chat successfully
[16:05]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrmmm.
[16:05]	Charlette Proto: 	yes the cursor (focus) in the IM should not be enough to keep the 'typing' message alive
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I'd be skeptical about messages "So-and-so is typing..." in regular chat. It could be like 20 lines of names at a concert
[16:06]	Arawn Spitteler should head on. 	Arawn Spitteler should head on.
[16:06]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Take care, Arawn :)
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	well, I'd assume it'd list whomever is typing at any given minute back to back at very list
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova: 	McCabe: I don't really have any feature idea for it --- I think the input handling needs to be thrown out entirely, because it runs at snail's pace compared to local input.
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	take care arawn :)
[16:07]	Charlette Proto: 	NO 'typing' messages in Chat please
[16:07]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	bye Arawn
[16:07]	Arawn Spitteler: 	We can't just have floating text Typing Hats?
[16:07]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Cyu Arawn :-)
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha
[16:07]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm in busy areas and it would be a mess
[16:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	with little pinwheels that spin when we type/
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	we could make chat recursive and just add it to the name of a participant. Like my name would become McCabe Maxsted (typing)
[16:08]	Morgaine Dinova wonders if McCabe is feeling alright 	Morgaine Dinova wonders if McCabe is feeling alright
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	actually my feet are killing me
[16:08]	McCabe Maxsted hiked a mountain today 	McCabe Maxsted hiked a mountain today
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Wow
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Personally, my preference would be an icon in the name tag to indicate who is typing
[16:09]	McCabe Maxsted likes throwing stuff out there though. I find sometimes bad ideas lead to good ones. Hehe. But I can't see your icon! 	McCabe Maxsted likes throwing stuff out there though. I find sometimes bad ideas lead to good ones. Hehe. But I can't see your icon!
[16:09]	Jacek Antonelli: 	A little keyboard or something
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	my screen is covered with the communicate window, chat history, and the browser
[16:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	ahh, hehe
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	all I see is my butt
[16:10]	Charlette Proto: 	yep agree with Jacek BTW the ideas on tag we discussed overlooked this
[16:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(and harleen's)
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrmm. There could be an icon in the list of nearby people in Local Chat.
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ack!
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	could the chat overlay on the 3D window be supressed (real rendering load during spam griefer attacks)
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	But you'd have to keep it open
[16:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	now you're talking crazy talk
[16:11]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe
[16:12]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Somebody explain to me why we have two vicinity chat typing boxes.
[16:12]	McCabe Maxsted buries that list with a vengance. The only use is the volume bit, which should be in the profile anyway 	McCabe Maxsted buries that list with a vengance. The only use is the volume bit, which should be in the profile anyway
[16:12]	Dirk Talamasca: 	there is an option to hide names though and it is a really good option.. i never display names
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	hide names? you mean tags
[16:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Hrmm. Send telepathic messages to the user so that they have a "six sense" about who is typing?
[16:13]	Dirk Talamasca: 	yes names and group tags
[16:13]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	ah you obviously live a different Second Life™ life to me Dirk
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted needs a prim pocketwatch 	McCabe Maxsted needs a prim pocketwatch
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	likes the ESP typing messages Jacek
[16:14]	McCabe Maxsted: 	they are typing very loudly.... very loudly.....
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	perhaps att the text via ESP
[16:14]	Morgaine Dinova: 	So, nobody knows why we have two vicinity chat typing boxes?
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	How do you mean, Morgaine?
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	One here
[16:15]	Garn Conover: 	i hate the local one lol
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And one here
[16:15]	Charlette Proto: 	I didn't understand Morg either
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	...
[16:15]	McCabe Maxsted peeks at morgaine's screen 	McCabe Maxsted peeks at morgaine's screen
[16:15]	Charlette Proto: 	woot?
[16:15]	Garn Conover: 	local chat and ui bar
[16:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ahhh
[16:15]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I do believe that's a marshmallow
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	One input box is to the right of the Local Chat icon, and the other is on the bottom of the Local Chat window
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	very confusing
[16:16]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And unnecessary
[16:16]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ah, I know the answer to that one actually
[16:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, that's a bit funky.
[16:16]	McCabe Maxsted: 	someone wanted one, and LL loves edge cases. It was a linden dev
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	I always hide the UI bar but I use the Communicate floater
[16:16]	McCabe Maxsted forgets the name 	McCabe Maxsted forgets the name
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	the bottom one is for those that don't Communicate
[16:16]	Morgaine Dinova: 	lol
[16:17]	Garn Conover: 	it was added when they put in the communication window
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	hates the 3Dscreen chat overlay as it is and keeps it to 1 line
[16:17]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	the lower local chat is for people they don't use communicate window
[16:17]	Garn Conover: 	honestly it should disapear when it gets ripped out
[16:17]	Morgaine Dinova: 	My guess is that they're simply reusing the communicate window class for vicinity chat, and don't have a means of hiding the input box.
[16:17]	Morgaine Dinova: 	But it's daft
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	if you disable the text entry it stays OFF
[16:17]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	they hve chat group and IM and local chat in the 3D window
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I haven't used the bottom chat bar in ages
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I type always through chat history
[16:19]	Charlette Proto: 	BTW if you focus anywhere in the Communicate floater the text entry should be enabled when text is typed
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted: 	but.... it's been established that I'm slightly crazy
[16:19]	Charlette Proto: 	or is it already?
[16:19]	McCabe Maxsted grins 	McCabe Maxsted grins
[16:19]	Morgaine Dinova: 	How about adding a feature to hide the input box per chat window? This would also make it impossible to accidentally post your cyboring grunts into a business channel :P
[16:19]	Jacek Antonelli: 	One of the weird things is that they have separate text input histories :D
[16:20]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yes!
[16:20]	Jacek Antonelli: 	(Pressing Ctrl-Up Arrow)
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	McCabe you lost your wits about 30 mni ago
[16:20]	Garmin Kawaguichi: 	in the Preferences there is an option incluse IM in local chat
[16:21]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe Moragaine
[16:21]	Charlette Proto: 	don't cyber during Open Hours Morg
[16:21]	Jacek Antonelli: 	o_O
[16:21]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It would be a sad l,oss of comedy, admittedly :-)
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	touches Morgaine's upper leg
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	eep
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe
[16:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	*ahem*
[16:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Get a sky box, you two. On the adult continent. Or something.
[16:22]	Morgaine Dinova moves her hand slowly towards Charlette while looking the other way 	Morgaine Dinova moves her hand slowly towards Charlette while looking the other way
[16:22]	McCabe Maxsted: 	thsi sort of goes back to what really irks me about the communicate window: instead of addressing the overlap issues, it mashes things together, and the rest of the UI has for the longest time been left behind. There were no other changes in how we communicate, except a new floater. It feels like something more massive is in order to fix this, than cramming stuf into a box
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova: 	A rethink
[16:23]	Charlette Proto: 	we may have to make Hippotropolis an Adult sim
[16:23]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I have it on good authority from my pack-rat father that stuffing things into a box solves everything!
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova: 	lol
[16:23]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Sorting things and getting rid of stuff you don't need is not the answer!
[16:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe
[16:24]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Anyway.
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova: 	But if you throw something out, it's guaranteed you need it the very next day. If you hadn't thrown it out, you would never need it.
[16:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	actually. I think pack rat is a very good metaphor for the current ui
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe Morgaine - sooo true
[16:25]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That law was written by Sod and Murphy, with expert consultation from Loki.
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	do we have premenitions of the things we do the next day
[16:25]	Jacek Antonelli: 	SL's UI was designed without any sort of plan that I can see. Just bolting new things on to other things, and then bolting more stuff onto that.
[16:25]	McCabe Maxsted: 	look at the changelog from the past three major versions, almost nothing was thrown away, just archived in a smaller den hehe
[16:26]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hehe yeah
[16:26]	McCabe Maxsted: 	so I'm guessing: tentacle interface?
[16:26]	Charlette Proto: 	agrees with Jacek, but Imprudence is kind of the same
[16:26]	Jacek Antonelli: 	That's true, so far
[16:27]	McCabe Maxsted: 	only because we're still using their bits; it's not like we don't notice ;)
[16:27]	Charlette Proto: 	we really need to get some direction into it - a roadmap so to speak
[16:27]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well there's a thought. If you had 3 years in which to create a totally new UI around the old guts (not that the guts are great), what's the biggest change you'd make?
[16:27]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes, very much so
[16:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Morgaine: I'd make it bright silver! Daaaazzling!
[16:28]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hahaha
[16:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	That's obviously the thing the UI needed most!
[16:28]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Pink, with ponies!
[16:28]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Oooooh, ponies.
[16:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I would remove all the different ways you could see information, and put them in only two places, the first place being anything relating to a notification, the second being anything that required an action. Aftr that, it'd all be right clicks