Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-06-28

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on June 28, 2012
== Agenda ==
* Oskar is back from vacation
* Almost the 4th of July. Happy Birthday America.
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server Channel
* This channel contains new simulator changes to help with infrastructure projects.
* Bug Fixes:
** : Noticed 06-14-12 on LeTigre server in Cleary. LSL function llGetWallclock() displays number of seconds since Zulu (GMT) midnite instead of Pacific midnite
** : Region server names now include backslashes, apparently escaping the space that follows.
** : Error fetching server release notes URL.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/12#12.06.18.259948
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This channel has server changes to process prebaked avatar textures for library outfits again.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.06.20.260188
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This was going to be Pathfinding.
** But then we found : "Sim crossings by objects is broken"
* Now this channel has server changes to process prebaked avatar textures for library outfits as well.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.06.20.260188
* Magnum RC Channel
* This channel has server changes to process prebaked avatar textures for library outfits as well.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.06.20.260188
* PathFinding User Group right after this meeting.
* Maestro wants to know about this bug:
** : "Phantom Prims Turning Solid"
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* No RC roll next week because we are all on vacation.
* How to handle Havok upgrades.
** Not backwards compatible.
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Pathfinding Beta Regions Live on AGNI
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pathfinding_Public_Beta
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Server Beta User Group for June 28, 2012:
* [15:00] Oskar LindenOskar Linden yawns
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:00] Kallista Destiny: Ave Oscar
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: hello everyone
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: we'll give people like 5 minutes to saunter in
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: rez
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: find a chair
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: yadda
* [15:01] SonicAnd Miles: im back again...
* [15:01] SonicAnd MilesSonicAnd Miles keeps losing power since we r having a RL heatwave...
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: how hot?
* [15:01] SonicAnd Miles: 106 according to my car about an hour ago
* [15:01] SonicAnd Miles: in chicago
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: celsius or fahrenheit?
* [15:02] SonicAnd Miles: F
* [15:02] SonicAnd Miles: lol
* [15:02] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: that's nothing
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: why back in MY day
* [15:02] Kallista Destiny: 92F in Socal
* [15:02] arton Rotaru: I'm sad, we lost the semii finals in the european soccer championship an hour ago
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: Seattle is SO hot today
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: it's a heatwave here too
* [15:02] SonicAnd Miles: if it ever got to 106 C were in trouble
* [15:03] arton Rotaru: we're dead
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: today it might get to 75 deg F!!!
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: with humidity approaching 50%
* [15:03] Oskar LindenOskar Linden dies
* [15:03] MartinRJ Fayray: Hello Maestro!
* [15:03] SonicAnd MilesSonicAnd Miles dies
* [15:03] Maestro Linden: howdy
* [15:03] SonicAnd Miles: howdy Maestro
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: hottest I myself have ever experienced was around 152 deg F
* [15:03] Kallista Destiny: Hi Maestro
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: bot 0% humidity
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: in Coober Pedy Australia
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: my brother saw 165 deg F in Iraq
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: wow but 0 humidity would be better than what we have... storms are rolling in now...
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: 50% humidity right now
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: 0 humidity is nice
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: that's rough
* [15:04] Oskar LindenOskar Linden rezzes an A/C unit
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: lol
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so how was your week everyone?
* [15:05] SonicAnd Miles: hot
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: did you miss me on my vacation last week?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I know you did
* [15:05] SonicAnd Miles: yep
* [15:05] arton Rotaru: 63% humidty over here right now
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: u had vacation last week?
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: At least we got to talk about you a lot!
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I know you rezzed a statue of me and sat around like I was still here
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: that explains why there is no transcript from last week
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:05] Nalates Urriah: yep
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: Oh Rex
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: It also explains the pigeon poop ;)
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: my brother from australia is in town
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: and I took a few days off
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: I got my chopper fixed up
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: good 4 u
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: took it to a vintage bike show
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: that was fun
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: bought her some new tires
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: ^__^
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: aaaanyway, here is the agenda
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: bam
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: starting off at the top
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: this weeks main channel roll
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: went fine
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it did take long
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: but it went well
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: the length was due to our new infrastructure and release process
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we're still tweaking it
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: /hand
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: it will shorten
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: yes coyot
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: Part of the length was converting from the old system to the new. That cost doesn't have to be paid twice, so things will speed up from that
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: in addition to the tweaking
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: next Tuesday it will be faster
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Coyot promises
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: +1
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: while we're on the topic of main channel deploys
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: next week we have a vacation
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: it's on the 4th, a Wednesday
* [15:09] Halloween Armchair *: Happy Halloween
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: America's Birthday
* [15:09] Maestro Linden: Nope, not Halloween
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: whose chair is that?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: what was the trigger?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: vacation ?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:10] Ergo Morpork: desolée
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it was Morpork!
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: we don't speak french here Morpork
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: well not much
* [15:10] Ergo Morpork: suits me fine
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: Maestro probably does
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: furansugo ga wakarimasen
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: because he is the Maestro
* [15:11] Ergo Morpork: je ne connais pas Maestro
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: Coyot is speaking Japanese and says he doesn't understand the language of France
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: 231,222,36
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:11] Maestro Linden: Un peu
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: next week on Tuesday we will have a rolling restart
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: the avatar texture baking project will most likely be promoted
* [15:11] Ergo Morpork: and after that EVERYONE will speak french
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: barring any showstopper issues
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: sukoshi desu ka, maestro-san?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: Now Coyot just asked Maestro to marry him in Japanese
* [15:12] Rex Cronon: i was thinking that "* [15:10] Coyot Linden: furansugo ga wakarimasen" it really doesn't sound french:)
* [15:12] Coyot Linden: um, no
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: but since Tuesday is a vacation there will be no RC upgrade next week
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: because no one is here
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: so yeah
* [15:13] Kallista Destiny: If we can ask, why was Magnum rolled back?
* [15:13] Grid Crash Protection Box: Acheron Gloom, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [15:13] Ergo Morpork: but Wednesday is American holiday
* [15:13] SonicAnd Miles: i can live with that. lol
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: getting there Kallista
* [15:13] Kallista Destiny: OK
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: we were bored
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: :P
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I wish the 4th was on like a Friday. It's awkward taking a wednesday off but whatever :-)
* [15:13] Kallista Destiny: Inquireing minds want to know
* [15:13] SonicAnd Miles: same here
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: so now lets get to this weeks RC
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: people need thursday to recover from the all the parties they go to:)
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: Magnum was the first we rolled Wednesday morning
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: Took forever too.
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: and mid roll we noticed SVC-8023
* [15:14] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8023] Sim crossings by objects is broken https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8023
* [15:14] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: we missed it earlier because it was close to a known issue
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: Ahhhh
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: we knew that mesh objects didn't like crossing to older regions
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: it's Havok's fault really
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: Havok is a ***** when it comes to backwards compatability
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: Cry Havok and let slip the dogs of mesh
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: so objects in the new Havok can't move to an older version
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: we knew it was an issue with mesh but moved forward with it anyway
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: we did not realize that it broke ALL region object crossings
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: not just physical ALL objects
* [15:15] arton Rotaru: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmaHj6mpT0k
* [15:15] Ov Dos Hat New!: CryEngine 3 - Soft Body Physics
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: and that was a much larger issue
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: so we had an emergency meeting
* [15:16] Motor Loon: I'd think mesh was a big enough issue
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: and made the call to roll forward to the code that was on BlueSteel
* [15:16] Grid Crash Protection Box: Acheron Gloom, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: It was livable Motor
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: but we'll talk about that in a minute
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: the real issue is Havok
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: and Havok's incompatability with older versions
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: it's pretty annoying
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: but we can't roll upgrades without having multiple versions
* [15:16] Rex Cronon: somebody talked about that at adrew's office hour
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: yeah
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: I wanted to ask you guys about that
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: we have an idea we are tossing around
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: brainstorming on regarding havok upgrades
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: the current RC process will always have old and new Havok versions side by side
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: and this issue will persist and grow in the future
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we have the idea of upgrading an entire continent as an RC isntead of a random RC channel
* [15:18] arton Rotaru: good idea
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: then there will be no side by side regions with different havok versions
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: you guys have any thoughts about that?
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: except you sacrifice A/B testing that way
* [15:18] arton Rotaru: just do it^^
* [15:18] Rex Cronon: how many continents are there?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: a/b testing is still possible
* [15:18] Kallista Destiny: well if a/b will neverr exist...
* [15:19] Kallista Destiny: why bother testing?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: actually it will be A || B testing
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: because they do exist
* [15:19] arton Rotaru: make just 4 regions with all 4 channels
* [15:19] arton Rotaru: accessible by scond life beta group only
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: can't do that, arton
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: we can set up special test cases, but we know this will always break with future Havok upgrades
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: too many islands
* [15:19] Kallista Destiny: however what about the myriad mini-\continents
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: exactly
* [15:19] Motor Loon: well,havok upgrades aint going to be THAT often is it?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: this would take the place of the RC
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: there are puzzle pieces problems
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: here
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: the RC channel for that week or two
* [15:20] Theresa Tennyson: And a lot of the continents are connected by sea passages.
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: but some of th important tests need to be on the combat regions....
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: yep
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: if there are Sea passages at least the issue would only be in one or two places
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: many of which are on 2-20 Island minis
* [15:20] Maestro Linden: Well, if you have a combat region and want to join the pathfinding beta, you can.
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: but this is the idea we're working on
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: by no means set in concrete yet
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: I couldn't foresee any major issues
* [15:21] Motor Loon: I'd sure appriciate my customers not complaining their mesh sailboats wont cross region borders
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: right
* [15:21] Chieron Tenk: or their anything, not just mesh
* [15:21] Rex Cronon: in theory all sims should have same version
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: and as mesh becomes more and more used for vehicles this known incompatability with Havok will incrase support load
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: the any objects thing was a bug
* [15:22] Chieron Tenk: k
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: Some minis are multi owner which makes for problems with that.
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: we knew it would affect mesh, but mesh vehicles aren't so popular grid wide yet
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: Rex: no, that's not right
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: what is a mini?
* [15:22] Rex Cronon: so u shouldn't have to test if current version works for 2 sim that r different
* [15:22] Motor Loon: well, thats because I haven't released my mesh sailboat yet haha
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: Different versions are required for different channel testing
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: Kallista, What is a mini?
* [15:23] Draconis Neurocam: mini continent i think they mean
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: oh
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: well a mini continent would most likely stay on the main channel branch
* [15:23] Kallista Destiny: mini-continents
* [15:23] Sigma Avro: mmh ?
* [15:23] Coyot Linden: not a mini-cooper?
* [15:23] Motor Loon: So what excactly qualifies as a "havok upgrade" ?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: then we would make a mainland continent on the new Havok version
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: Sardar is in the middle of a main channel continent
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: any changes to the Havok simulator
* [15:25] Motor Loon: but those aren't too common are they?
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: Sardar is a private sim right?
* [15:25] Draconis Neurocam: at least they named it right with all of the havoc it causes
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: they're not common
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: but they will happen
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: Yes as are the surounding regions
* [15:25] Rex Cronon: well if u have multiple channels and want all to be compatible, u will have lost of work to do
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: it wouldn't be part of the roll then Kallista
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: it would stay the same as server trunk
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: ahhh
* [15:25] Rex Cronon: u will have lots*
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: and be unaffected because it doesn't border the continent we used for testing
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: the overall compatability comes once we release to all channels
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: but for the purposes of RC testing having all the same versions next to each other will make it easier when there are Havok upgrades
* [15:26] Kallista Destiny: so there weilll be a Havock RC chanel
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: something like that yes
* [15:26] Motor Loon: nods... but... are we talking for example "one week of possible problems a year" or?
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: it's the idea we're working on
* [15:27] Coyot Linden: No, havok upgrades are not very frequent
* [15:27] Coyot Linden: once a year, maybe
* [15:27] SonicAnd Miles: stupid heatwave eating my electricity.... :-/
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: it depends Motor. I can't foresee Havok upgrades
* [15:27] Sigma Avro: havok with PF ?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: but it might be a 1 or 2x/year thing
* [15:27] Sigma Avro: sorry
* [15:27] Coyot Linden: Major Havok
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: and PF does have a Havok upgrade
* [15:27] Coyot Linden: He's realated to Colonel Panic
* [15:27] arton Rotaru: well, if we keep it the old way, it feels like the grid never gets out of beta
* [15:27] Rex Cronon: there is another option. make a new channel that is used as interface between different sims of diffrent versions that touch:)
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: I just wanted to get your feedback and discuss the idea
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: that doesn't work like that Rex
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: that would be a LOT more confusing :-)
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: after 9 years we should have a more or less stable platform
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it is stable
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: more or less
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: yeah more or less
* [15:28] Coyot Linden: At least as stable as the people who run it. :)
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: hush
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: :-p
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: cluttered with incomaptible versions, it's rather less
* [15:28] Motor Loon: loool
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: the versions are not incompatible now
* [15:29] Motor Loon: problem is havok design or problem is mesh design?
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: what I am trying to do is discuss a release option that would make upgrades more stable
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: everything has to be upgraded
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: everyone wants new features
* [15:29] Rex Cronon: if u can't go from one sime to the other using a vehicle that is not compatible
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: havok uses a binary format for mesh object, which is passed around in region crossings
* [15:29] arton Rotaru: yep, just do it as safe as possible
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: it's Havok
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: and havok tweaks the format with each release
* [15:30] Sigma Avro: I had today to wait for about 1/2 hour to cross between 2 PF regions on agni. Is it because it not grid wide ?
* [15:30] Oskar LindenOskar Linden blames Havok. :-) Our server simulators are backwards compatible
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: each new version of havok is backwards compatible with older formats, but older versions of havok aren't compatible with newer formats
* [15:30] Motor Loon: well, I think it sounds like a good solution to roll entire continents - atleast we've have ALOT less customer complaints of our products suddenly not working as normal for a week during the deployment... that would be highly appriciated I think
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: no Sigma I don't know about 30 minutes sim crossings
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: I blame Maestro for that
* [15:30] arton Rotaru: a week would the the "best case scenario" Motor
* [15:30] Sigma Avro: sorry, forgot to say that it was after restart
* [15:30] Motor Loon: I thought Falcon broke it with his silly PF
* [15:31] Motor Loon: °͜°
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: Nope, that's unrelated to pathfinding
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: yeah it was Falcon
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: and his meddling
* [15:31] Motor Loon: nods and grins
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: that's related to the infrastructure changes
* [15:31] Sigma Avro: ok, blampe on Maestro, he is kind with me
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: SVC-8019
* [15:31] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8019] roll restart normalisation time issues : can not cross region borders for a while , very slow restart at roll restart , no fetching on server channel- version https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8019
* [15:31] Nalates Urriah: Hes not here blame him
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: Maestro is there a PF meeting after this UG?
* [15:32] Sigma Avro: yes thgat oe. Sim crossing remained an issue today
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: so that is the main agenda
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: all RC channels have the Av Texture Baking project
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: which will be promoted next week
* [15:32] Kallista Destiny: That happend between Caledon Stormwood(main channel) and Caledon Tanglewood (Magnum RC) for 54 minutes you could not see or cross.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: Agni willing
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: it's a known issue Kallista
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: has to do with region presence caching
* [15:33] Kallista Destiny: nods
* [15:33] MartinRJ: what's av texture baking project?
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: the cache lasts an hour
* [15:33] Kallista Destiny: I understand that...
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: we're working on it
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: the av texture baking project is to help speed up the experience for new users
* [15:33] Kallista Destiny: nods i was trying to explain that. to some people there
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: the default avatars in the library have their textures prebaked
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: so that new users don't see clouds as much
* [15:34] Rex Cronon: i think is the one where all the textures u r wearing r merged into one?
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it needed some small simulator changes
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it's a low risk project
* [15:34] MartinRJ: cool!
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it has been stable on RC for weeks now
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: just waiting for a slot to release
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: there have been some other critical bug fixes that took priority
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: Now that we have the main agenda out of the way Maestro has the floor
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: to discuss SVC-8030
* [15:35] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8030] Phantom Prims Turning Solid https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8030
* [15:35] Maestro Linden: So about SVC-8023, RC PF has the fix for that
* [15:35] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8023] Sim crossings by objects is broken https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8023
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: right
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: yes
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: we fixed it yesterday
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: but it missed its window
* [15:36] Maestro Linden: We almost did another roll of pathfinding to magnum today
* [15:36] Maestro Linden: almost :)
* [15:36] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:36] Coyot Linden: brb
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: I don't like rolling the same channel twice in a week
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: I always argue against that
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: it is not often my call
* [15:37] arton Rotaru: no need to hurry
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: but I try to make the release have as little impact as possible
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: the need to hurry comes from above my pagrade arton
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: and it is not my decision
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:37] arton Rotaru: yeah, I can imagine
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: so Maestro
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: SVC-8030
* [15:37] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8030] Phantom Prims Turning Solid https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8030
* [15:38] arton Rotaru: if SVC-8030 is true, that would be bad as well
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: Yes. I'm curious if somebody here has content which exhibits that.
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: the thought is that it affects hacked mixed volumedetect linksets
* [15:38] Motor Loon: volumedetect hack "fix" is correct yeah
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: such as PATHBUG-69
* [15:38] Flame of Jira: [#PATHBUG-69] llVolumeDetect(TRUE) is broken https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-69
* [15:38] Motor Loon: Falcon promised grandfathering for existing content
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: however, my mixed volumedetect objects keep the same collision shape when I move them into pathfinding
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: so I don't know what the story is
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: maybe there's something else with the objects that change
* [15:39] Motor Loon: and the upcomming change to mesh account was to allow us to use an alternate method to do the same
* [15:39] Rex Cronon: so, if i shoot cloud bullets, they will suddlenly turn solid?
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: the fix for PATHBUG-69 was to prevent creation of new hacked objects, but to preserve the collision shapes of existing linkests
* [15:39] arton Rotaru: those should break if they are unlinked, right?
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: yes Arton, they should break then
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: yes PATHBUG-129
* [15:39] Flame of Jira: [#PATHBUG-129] Vehicles, pathfinding, crossing regions in Agni: Computer out of control or other severe issues in Agni pathfinding enabled regions (Stopover issue) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-129
* [15:39] arton Rotaru: maybe there is some unlinking going on
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: ah,iyt recognises these also, sorry
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: yeah, that's possible
* [15:40] Motor Loon: any change to linkset apparently should "break" grandfathering, except linking with avatars
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: Anyway, I'm waiting to see if Keiko can show me where the stairs are, so I can use that as a test case
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: but if anybody else hasaffected objects, please let me know
* [15:41] arton Rotaru: I always tried to avoid such hacks
* [15:41] Motor Loon: I use it on my sailboat
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: By the way, we forgot to include this on the Magnum/LeTigre release notes,
* [15:41] arton Rotaru: YES
* [15:42] Motor Loon: volumedetect "phantom" prims to allow for a proper collision despite it being made of sculpties
* [15:42] Maestro Linden: but pathfinding does change how legacy prims cost in linksets that use new accounting
* [15:42] Maestro Linden: Changed prim accounting for legacy prims which use the new accounting system
All legacy-style prims have their streaming cost capped at 1.0 (except for sculpts, which will be capped at 2.0). This provides the benefit of not penalizing prim-based creators for optimizing their content by opting into the new system and will make the streaming cost more reflective of the true network cost of the objects.
Server cost will be adjusted to MIN{ (0.5*num_prims) + (0.25 * num_scripts), num_prims }. This preserves the current value for unscripted linksets and reduce the cost for linksets containing fewer than 2*num_prims scripts. It provides the benefit of rewarding creators for reducing the number of scripts in their objects.
* [15:42] Motor Loon: sculpties are still a bit expensive... but it's a lot better than what we had
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: ok, so hurry and give us pathfinding ^^ :p
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: working on it!
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: but it will be delayed 2 weeks now
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: I think we mentioned this at a past aditi meeting, but it can't hurt to mention twice
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: because it failed RC yesterday
* [15:43] arton Rotaru: the server weight is nice
* [15:43] Sigma Avro: why did it fail ?
* [15:43] Motor Loon: yeah the accounting change is awesome... it's almost (it is) a bigger thing than pathfinding itself
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: Yes the idea is to encourage people to optimize the physics shapes of their objects, by lowering the possible cost increase when switching to meshy accounting
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: so if you change your ugly child prims to physics shape type none, the land impact won't increase, in most cases
* [15:44] Acheron Gloom: Cool :) I very much like this.
* [15:44] Coyot Linden: back
* [15:44] arton Rotaru: it will reduce my mesh only items as well
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: yes, that server cost change affects both
* [15:45] Acheron Gloom: I have plenty of objects that are almost solely made of things like cubes, and yet throwing a script in makes it worthless to set them to convex hull/none.
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: gotta go
* [15:45] Acheron Gloom: See ya Coyot
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: l8r) Coyot
* [15:45] Rex Cronon: tc coyot
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: I mean sayonara
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: my man Oskar raised a procedural point that I need to pay attention to
* [15:45] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Coyot!
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: ja mata ne!
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: yw!
* [15:45] Sigma Avro: Will PF viewer's UI be maintained when it is released on agni ?
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: itterashai
* [15:46] Moundsa Mayo: Raa trii, sawat!
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: it will be merged into the mainline viewer, Sigma
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: I believe they're targeting to enter viewer beta soon
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: ok. It is very usefull, even for non PF reasons
* [15:46] Kallista Destiny: Will it be available to TPV?
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: Yeah, though there are some licensing restrictions with the Havok libs
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: I don't really know about that stuff; you'd best ask Oz
* [15:47] Kallista Destiny: I understand that is being worked on
* [15:47] Acheron Gloom: So, this volume detect misfeature used to make a child prim 'phantom' is actually new to me. But I suppose I should've known of it considering you can do the same thing with a flexiprim
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: or Lorca might be up to date at the upcoming pathfinding huddle
* [15:47] Acheron Gloom: is the flexiprim method known?
* [15:48] Moundsa Mayo: Yes, Acheron.
* [15:48] Acheron Gloom: Alrighty.
* [15:48] Acheron Gloom: Just making sure.
* [15:48] Maestro Linden: it's not unknown :)
* [15:48] Kallista Destiny: Although Havock in the viewer should not really affect other grids
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: ok so we've got about 10 minutes left
* [15:48] arton Rotaru: other grids are lame :p
* [15:49] Motor Loon: Think it's more a "legal thing" rather than a "common sense thing" Kalli °͜°
* [15:49] MartinRJ: some of them maybe
* [15:49] Sigma Avro: other = beta only
* [15:49] Sigma Avro: :)
* [15:49] Kallista Destiny: Yeah i understand that *curses all lawyers*
* [15:50] Moundsa Mayo: Yeah, arton, I keep surveying them when someone claims they are killer. DERP! Just helps me to realized how far ahead SL is, and keeps progressing.
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: anything else?
* [15:50] Kallista Destiny: A citizen around lawyers is like a fish around cats
* [15:50] arton Rotaru: WebGL maybe?
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: Italy Germany 2 -1
* [15:51] Rex Cronon: what would stop ll from making a webgl viewr?
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: shut up Avro :p
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: time and money probably
* [15:51] Sigma Avro: haha
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: hm Acheron, maybe you're onto something
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: Sigma actually *
* [15:51] Maestro Linden: maybe that SVC-8030 object is using flexi to have 'phantom' prims
* [15:51] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-8030] Phantom Prims Turning Solid https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8030
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: though I'm not sure how you make a flexi sculpt.. maybe with a hacked viewer or LSL?
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: (the buid tool usually greys out the flexi flag for a sculpt)
* [15:52] Sigma Avro: it was i a viewer this possibility
* [15:52] Moundsa Mayo: Simple script, Maestro.,
* [15:52] MartinRJ: lsl
* [15:52] Moundsa Mayo: What he said!
* [15:52] MartinRJ: i can send it to you
* [15:52] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:53] Moundsa Mayo: Hello, Object!
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: thanks, that would be helpful, martin
* [15:53] Acheron Gloom: make prim flexi >> attach to another non-flexi/non-phantom prim
* [15:53] Acheron Gloom: make the flexi prim sculpty >> Profit
* [15:54] Motor Loon: profit lol
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: fun
* [15:54] arton Rotaru: falcon will kill that too then
* [15:54] Sigma Avro: sculpted flag
* [15:54] MartinRJ Fayray: (looking for the script)
* [15:54] Motor Loon: but perhaps a solution for the future nonworking volumedetect trick - providing the mesh accounting changes dont cut it?
* [15:55] Acheron Gloom: I hope, and I imagine, that the mesh accounting changes will cut it. And if they don't, well, I don't suggest using any more misfeatures...
* [15:55] Motor Loon: Falcon didn't kill volumedetect because it was a hack... he did so because they needed to fix something else about it regarding pathfinding
* [15:55] Acheron Gloom: Lest we go through this again
* [15:55] Conover's Flight-Helper 6.3.3 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: to me he killed it^^
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: because he don't like it
* [15:55] Acheron Gloom: Interesting. If I unlink the sculpted prim that is phantom
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: Well, I wouldn't recommend using hacks
* [15:55] Kallista Destiny: Someon has been reading the rules of acquisition
* [15:55] Acheron Gloom: I can't unselect the phantom box :p
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: because they're fragile
* [15:56] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:56] Motor Loon: well, sometimes you need those hacks to get things to do what you want... because there's not a good supported method
* [15:57] Motor Loon: the real solution ofcourse is to offer official supported methods for doing these things
* [15:57] Maestro Linden: such as PHYSICS_SHAPE_TYPE_NONE ?
* [15:57] Motor Loon: mesh accounting was just that
* [15:57] Motor Loon: yes
* [15:57] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:57] Motor Loon: but without the change to accounting... the solution to make non-mesh stuff use mesh accounting was not a good suggestion
* [15:57] Ada Toy No.2 - dog(follower): eyeye Afterthought is not my owner
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: not really
* [15:58] Motor Loon: I'm happy with the solution now - assuming it comes out as promised °͜°
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: alright everyone
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: it is that time
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: yet again
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: yep!
* [15:59] Oskar LindenOskar Linden sings the goodbye song
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: tc oskar
* [15:59] Kallista Destiny: Thank you Oscar
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: remember no RC roll enxt week!
* [15:59] Moundsa Mayo: Find the script, Martin?
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: you2
* [15:59] Chieron Tenk: see you oskar
* [15:59] fuse McGinnis: bye all
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: thanks Callista
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: thanks all suport ad dev teams
* [15:59] Motor Loon: Okiesdokies... see ya next time guys... unless we hear ya comming and have time to hide...
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and hae a nice day
* [15:59] MartinRJ Fayray: not yet. Maybe it was done with a modified viewer (Imprudence)
* [16:00] Moundsa Mayo: I got ONE to Maestro - this is it ...
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: have a good one everybody!
* [16:00] Acheron Gloom: You, too, Oskar.