Mesh/Archive/2011-04-18

==Attendees List==
*Aki (aki.shichiroji)
*Ann Otoole (ann.otoole)
*Ariel Erlanger (ariel.erlanger)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Bloodsong Termagant (bloodsong.termagant)
*Brookston Holiday (brookston.holiday)
*Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
*draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Latif Khalifa (latif.khalifa)
*NielArcher (nielarcher)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Racush (racush.cheeky)
*Ranya Palmer (ranya.palmer)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
*Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda)
*Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
==Transcript for Monday April 18, 2011==
[11:03]	Charlar Linden 	OK, Ready to start?
[11:03]	Asha 	Sure thing
[11:03]	Ariel Erlanger 	let's do!
[11:04]	Charlar Linden 	First item: For what reason is bone length data not honored by the importer? It is very likely BVH hacks will be used if this is not supported officially, something that has been stated that the mesh team doesn't wish to see.
[11:04]	Racush 	gogogo
[11:04]	Prep Linden 	So, I've looked into this issue and I'm not opposed to adding code for importing both scale and rotations for bones to the importer -
[11:04]	Yellow Alloy 	yes!
[11:04]	Asha 	Sweet ^^
[11:04]	Prep Linden 	Tiberius just file a jira and we'll prioritize the work.
[11:04]	Yellow Alloy 	/me growls
[11:05]	Prep Linden 	I think it's a good suggestion and should streamline content generation here.
[11:05]	Aki 	Tiberious has issues with JIRA.
[11:05]	Aki 	:P
[11:05]	Asha 	haha
[11:05]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Wonderful :D
[11:05]	Yellow Alloy 	I didn't, up until December 12, 2010
[11:05]	Asha 	I'll file it if you want Tiberious
[11:05]	Yellow Alloy 	please do
[11:06]	Asha 	okie
[11:06]	Charlar Linden 	next?
[11:06]	Prep Linden 	Thanks Asha
[11:06]	Charlar Linden 	It seems that a minimum 0.5 prim physics cost per linkset component now overrides the 0.1 per prim for "perfect" prims used for physics shape. This is a 5x increase in cost. Boxes now cost more than their hull equivalent (0.36). Is this deliberate? [Drongle McMahon]
[11:06]	Asha 	No problem
[11:07]	Charlar Linden 	Our accounting algos are still in flux. We'll let you know when they're in a shape that we can start getting good feedback from you all.
[11:08]	Drongle McMahon 	OK. Count that as advance feedback.
[11:08]	Ariel Erlanger 	is there like a guiding philosphy behind how you want these algorthims to end up? are you trying to match rendering or network costs with existing assets for example?
[11:08]	Charlar Linden 	noted
[11:09]	Charlar Linden 	Ariel, more on that later
[11:09]	Ariel Erlanger 	ok!
[11:10]	Nyx Linden 	we are looking at a number of options and we will ask for your help :)
[11:11]	Charlar Linden 	next?
[11:11]	Charlar Linden 	Please give an update on physics (collision) shapes and costs. Can we have the physics cost in the upload floater p;ease? [Drongle McMahon].
[11:11]	Drongle McMahon 	That is because I have all sorts of unreproducible physics-shape dependent problems on some sims and not others!
[11:11]	Drongle McMahon 	p;ease = please
[11:11]	Yellow Alloy 	yeah. Physics is absolutely insane anymore
[11:12]	davep 	The hold up on getting the cost into the viewer is pulling the relevant code out of the simulator, and that's tied to havok at the moment
[11:12]	davep 	but we've got it pulled out and ready for integration, so that should be in "soon"
[11:12]	Nyx Linden 	as always, any prim cost algorithms aren't final yet, but we are working to get that information in the upload floater :)
[11:12]	Drongle McMahon 	OK. What about rezzing poblems that are very unreproducible? How should I jira such thingd?
[11:13]	Yellow Alloy 	this thing here?
[11:13]	Yellow Alloy 	the pin? 10 prims... all from physics costs
[11:13]	davep 	good question -- making a jira for a bug with no solid repro is always tricky
[11:13]	davep 	but the sim devs are actively working on a number of rez issues
[11:13]	Drongle McMahon 	I took a whole day trying to make reproducible cases.
[11:14]	Yellow Alloy 	I mean, it's GOT pretty much the best LODs I can give it
[11:14]	Drongle McMahon 	Like things that appear in Show physics shape but don't collide?
[11:15]	Yellow Alloy 	but to have 10 of them would cost 100 prims
[11:15]	davep 	it does have a very complex physics shape
[11:16]	Yellow Alloy 	only 3 hulls
[11:16]	davep 	yes, but those hulls have lots of points
[11:16]	Yellow Alloy 	hm
[11:16]	davep 	the number of points in the hull matters
[11:16]	davep 	try uising one of the lower LoDs for a basis for the physics rep
[11:16]	Yellow Alloy 	how can the physics be knocked down lower points, with the same general collision?
[11:17]	davep 	or better yet, model a physics shape in blender that has as few points as possible
[11:17]	Yellow Alloy 	hmm
[11:17]	Yellow Alloy 	I'd have to go into Wings...
[11:17]	Yellow Alloy 	but it MIGHT be doable
[11:17]	davep 	you could also use a cylinder and a sphere for the top two hulls
[11:17]	davep 	(use prims)
[11:18]	Yellow Alloy 	I'm not so sure
[11:18]	Yellow Alloy 	we'll see
[11:18]	Drongle McMahon 	What about using the decomkposer? I had some cases where a simple mesh was xheaper to use without decomposition that with it. (it wa already a set of convex hulls)
[11:18]	draconis.neurocam 	that shape could nearly be 1 prim physics wise with some prim magic
[11:18]	Charlar Linden 	next item?
[11:18]	Charlar Linden 	Update on the state of physics decomposition
[11:19]	Drongle McMahon 	I don't like linking physics prims 'cos they can get unlinked. but it can be MUCH cheaper.
[11:19]	davep 	great use of sample content to drive discussion, BTW
[11:19]	Nyx Linden 	its public! https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecomposition
[11:19]	Nyx Linden 	that's all the code we wrote for decomp, no havok code attached so it won't build
[11:19]	Nyx Linden 	the stub still builds from it if you need a working lib to link in
[11:19]	Yellow Alloy 	who's holding it?
[11:20]	Yellow Alloy 	hmm
[11:20]	Yellow Alloy 	mmk
[11:21]	Yellow Alloy 	I'll see what I can do
[11:21]	davep 	third party viewer devs, use the above repo as the interface for your own decimator (if you want to use qhull or similar)
[11:21]	davep 	er, decomposer, even
[11:22]	davep 	basically, you *must* implement that interface for your viewer to be able to upload meshes
[11:23]	Charlar Linden 	next:
[11:23]	Drongle McMahon 	I thought decomposition was going to be required, but I can still upload my own physics mesh without using it. I guess it uses the triangles. Is that going to stay that way?
[11:24]	davep 	Latif: what "consequences" are you concerned about speciifcally?
[11:24]	Yellow Alloy 	builders kits, I'd think
[11:24]	Yellow Alloy 	I'm also concerned about the loss of the mesh asset
[11:25]	davep 	Drongle: when you click "upload" without a decomposition, the importer automatically makes one for you
[11:25]	Yellow Alloy 	...people can sell sculpt maps, so why shouldn't we be able to sell mesh assets?
[11:25]	davep 	using the llconvexdecomposition lib
[11:25]	Drongle McMahon 	Can't sell mesh assets inworld. Outside, you lose permissions system.
[11:25]	Nyx Linden 	you can sell mesh objects, or can dell the collada files
[11:25]	Nyx Linden 	*sell
[11:25]	Drongle McMahon 	Bur, Runitai, it doesn't make a convex hull ..... just a collection of them?
[11:26]	davep 	builders kits still work, but it will just be a collection of copy/mod objects instead of a copyable texture
[11:26]	Vivienne Daguerre 	he makes a good point. Importing collada files may be too intimidating to non-mesh builders who want to use mesh kits to make their own creations and show them as creator.
[11:26]	Drongle McMahon 	It's not the same as Analyse with no simpl;ification .... dfifefrent costs.
[11:26]	Nyx Linden 	that's fine, builders kits can still exist as copy and mod objects
[11:27]	davep 	drongle: if you read the code, there's the ability to do both
[11:27]	Vivienne Daguerre 	but they will not show the kit purchaser as the creator of the final item
[11:27]	Ariel Erlanger 	the creator issue is one i've run up against too. not just for athestic reasons, but if you appear as the creator of someone else's finished item, it's confusing for the customer of that item to determine who to ask for help, etc.
[11:27]	Yellow Alloy 	agreed
[11:27]	Vivienne Daguerre 	which could be a pain for the creators of the mesh kits, because if they show as creator they are going to get IMs from customers of the customer, wanting support
[11:27]	Ariel Erlanger 	ideally the builder would link your prims in after they make their own base prim so the linkset is "created" by them but that unfortunately isn't always the case.
[11:27]	Nyx Linden 	you can include it as the non-root prim of a linkset correct?
[11:27]	Asha 	That's very true.
[11:27]	davep 	to be blunt, if you're using a builder kit, you're NOT the creator
[11:28]	Ariel Erlanger 	semantically i agree with you, but let's say you buy a shoe from someone who used a mesh from my kit
[11:28]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Ariel, that is a good work around, will have to instruct people to do that
[11:28]	Yellow Alloy 	now that, davep, I'm going to call bull on
[11:28]	Drongle McMahon 	Anyway, the end user can unlink it.
[11:28]	Brookston Holiday 	Wow Dave. To be blunt, any other company would listen to feedback from the people using there product, ande take more than 30 seconds to tell them why they are wrong.
[11:28]	Ann Otoole 	use a notecard. maybe get the main languages translated.
[11:28]	Ariel Erlanger 	if you need customer support you really want to be talking to the person who built the shoe, not me.
[11:28]	Vivienne Daguerre 	or let us say you buy a house with a mesh window that I made and sold as part of a kit, and you have a problem with the house... I don't want you IMing me for support, but the one who used my kit to make the house.
[11:29]	Ranya Palmer 	i had that happen to me a few times
[11:29]	Yellow Alloy 	there's a skill set that DOES take parts and fashion them into a new whole, and they're every bit a creator as the one who made the parts in the first place
[11:29]	Vivienne Daguerre 	just something to consider...
[11:29]	Ann Otoole 	anyway i don't see it as a major issue. people have been selling clothes templates and delivering psd files for years.
[11:29]	Ariel Erlanger 	it's not like a deal killing issue but if there isn't a cost associated with having the mesh asset then it could be avoided.
[11:30]	Asha 	Why has the mesh asset been removed?
[11:30]	Nyx Linden 	its a valid use case. We need a better mechanism for stating who the end user should contact for support with an item
[11:30]	Charlar Linden 	It seems like the problem is not specifically about mesh, it's about consumers knowing who to contact with issues.
[11:30]	davep 	ok, I'm over reaching on what qualifies as a creator, point taken
[11:30]	Charlar Linden 	Like Nyx said :-)
[11:30]	Aki 	/me would LOVE a 'support contact' property :D
[11:30]	Ariel Erlanger 	well this is just the one example of a problem we've been able to think of on the spot, i don't want to exclude the possibility that there might be other use problems.
[11:30]	davep 	/me attempts to remove foot from mouth.
[11:30]	Charlar Linden 	We'll take that and think about what we can do.
[11:30]	Yellow Alloy 	precisely
[11:30]	Ann Otoole 	well if someone buys a collada file and then mods it why should the original creator be bothered?
[11:31]	Asha 	Question: Was there a reason mesh asset was removed?
[11:31]	Ariel Erlanger 	i would love to sell the collada files but then you get into this whole issue of outside-world sales.
[11:31]	Racush 	maybe some way to better show collaborative builds in that reguard?
[11:31]	Ariel Erlanger 	you need some kind of infrastructure to distribute those files for example.
[11:31]	Yellow Alloy 	yeah
[11:31]	davep 	there are a few reasons why the asset was removed:
[11:31]	draconis.neurocam 	thats a meta issue racush, but yes very much still a problem
[11:31]	Yellow Alloy 	out-of-world sales == no L$ transactions
[11:31]	Asha 	People already distribute PSD files
[11:32]	Drongle McMahon 	To stop illegitimate copying? To stop hiding of creator of stolen objects?
[11:32]	davep 	technically, there are assumptions the simulator needs to make about meshes that makes it impossible to change the mesh asset once the object is rezzed without causing significant simulator stability and performance issues
[11:32]	Ann Otoole 	out of SL sales are going to happen. more and more as time goes on. licensing relative to what grid will become important.
[11:32]	Nyx Linden 	to prevent modification of mesh assets so that we can always identify *who* uploaded the mesh, to assist with IP takedown
[11:32]	davep 	so if you had the asset in inventory, there's no technically "safe" way to apply it to a mesh inworld
[11:32]	Asha 	Ah ok Dave..thanks
[11:33]	Brookston Holiday 	makes sense
[11:33]	Yellow Alloy 	oh
[11:33]	Yellow Alloy 	okay
[11:33]	Ann Otoole 	ah yes id who uploaded. hey and can we get last modded too? like for scripts?
[11:33]	Yellow Alloy 	...drag-and-drop crashing sims... gotcha
[11:33]	Drongle McMahon 	Sound like good reasons to me.
[11:33]	Racush 	yeah
[11:33]	Asha 	That does sound like a very valis reason not to have them.
[11:33]	Asha 	*valid
[11:33]	Nyx Linden 	so its a side issue, but a completely valid one, that we need to let people know who to contact for support
[11:34]	Charlar Linden 	Excellent - so let's move on
[11:34]	Drongle McMahon 	So we need inworld and marketplace provision for selling Collada files for L$?
[11:34]	Yellow Alloy 	I mean, all it would take to bury someone is to make a shoddy product, have a prim created by them as the root, and put it out there
[11:34]	Ariel Erlanger 	or sell meshed out prims.
[11:35]	Brookston Holiday 	aren't collada files just large notecards?
[11:35]	Drongle McMahon 	How large is a norecard?
[11:35]	Ariel Erlanger 	but if there's a compelling technical reason why using the assets is unstable then it is what it is ^^
[11:35]	Yellow Alloy 	true
[11:35]	davep 	up to 8MB, I think
[11:35]	Asha 	You can sale them the same way people sell PSD files. Nothing new there.
[11:35]	Drongle McMahon 	ok that would do.
[11:35]	Brookston Holiday 	How do people sell PSD files, email?
[11:35]	NielArcher 	notecards are up to 64Kb
[11:36]	Charlar Linden 	next: Can you give us an update on recent progress, what your current priorities are, and what if anything you need us to test? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[11:36]	Drongle McMahon 	Oh no. 64k is no good.
[11:36]	Nyx Linden 	I'm still hammering away on render cost modifications
[11:37]	Charlar Linden 	We're getting REALLY close to finishing the merge of the disabled code into trunk on both the viewer and server side
[11:37]	Nyx Linden 	hammering out a few issues with the vs2010 changeover
[11:38]	davep 	we'll be merging bitbucket.org/seraph/mesh-development-vs2010 into hg.secondlife.com/mesh-development
[11:38]	Ann Otoole 	psd files are delivered in ways relative to what resources the creator has. they range from email to mega download sites changing passwords daily to technical systems that use a private website to deliver download tokens.
[11:38]	davep 	then making a fork of mesh-development to do a stability pass, and then merge that into trunk
[11:39]	draconis.neurocam 	trunk being viewer-development?
[11:39]	Nyx Linden 	correct
[11:39]	Drongle McMahon 	That should be fun
[11:39]	Nyx Linden 	so once we merge the 2010 changes down, we'll want some eyes on the result to help with our stability pass
[11:40]	Brookston Holiday 	So, down to weeks/months?
[11:40]	Drongle McMahon 	How about the serverS?
[11:40]	davep 	the *disabled* code to viewer-development
[11:40]	davep 	merge to viewer-development != mesh release
[11:41]	davep 	but it's a vital step in that direction
[11:41]	davep 	a major milestone
[11:41]	Yellow Alloy 	yeah
[11:41]	davep 	cause for celebration and all that
[11:41]	Vivienne Daguerre 	Woo-hoo-hoo!!
[11:41]	Asha 	hehe
[11:41]	Nyx Linden 	one step closer :)
[11:41]	Charlar Linden 	next: Are we there yet? Can you give us any kind of rough estimate of ETA? [Vivienne Daguerre]
[11:41]	davep 	and it means we can get back to making mesh better
[11:41]	Charlar Linden 	No, we are not there yet.
[11:41]	Charlar Linden 	As for an ETA...
[11:42]	Nyx Linden 	When its done.
[11:42]	Yellow Alloy 	ballpark it, please?
[11:42]	Bloodsong Termagant 	well, how many milestones are there?
[11:42]	Charlar Linden 	before the end of a year
[11:42]	Vivienne Daguerre 	:P @ Nyx
[11:42]	Vivienne Daguerre 	before the end of this year, 2011?
[11:42]	Brookston Holiday 	"a" year lol
[11:42]	Ann Otoole 	hahah
[11:43]	Charlar Linden 	Seriously, we know you do really need to know, but we still have a few big items in flux, so we can't say for sure yet.
[11:43]	Aki 	everyone should just move over to Aditi.
[11:43]	Aki 	:P
[11:43]	Asha 	lol
[11:43]	Ariel Erlanger 	maybe we could talk about what those big items are? just sort of like a state of the development roadmap?
[11:43]	Charlar Linden 	We'll make every effort to give you as much information as we have
[11:43]	Yellow Alloy 	a general idea would be helpful, yes
[11:43]	Vivienne Daguerre 	thanks
[11:43]	Charlar Linden 	I get it, and I really want to start giving you a timeframe.
[11:44]	Ann Otoole 	so basically i need to plan on upgrading my gtx 240 to at least gtx 480 by the end of the year. this viewer is overloading the gtx240 unless i turn off most cool stuff.
[11:44]	Vivienne Daguerre 	the longer it takes, the more mesh I will have ready to stock my store up when it happens.
[11:44]	Charlar Linden 	It's just not fair to the engineers
[11:44]	Yellow Alloy 	I know
[11:44]	Drongle McMahon 	Yes. A list of hurdles would be interesting and maybe even useful.
[11:44]	Charlar Linden 	It's also not fair to your all - we'll balance that.
[11:44]	Yellow Alloy 	that's why we're wanting a tentative date... nothing carved in stone, just written in pencil
[11:44]	Drongle McMahon 	Ann. Yes.....my 240 got cooked.
[11:45]	Drongle McMahon 	440 is much cooler and still low power.
[11:45]	Nyx Linden 	problem is a missed deadline, even written in pencil, is bad
[11:45]	Yellow Alloy 	hell, even ebtter, chalk on the board. Something easily rewritten, so we have an idea how much time we have to develop stuff
[11:45]	draconis.neurocam 	(x60- or up only for me)
[11:45]	Yellow Alloy 	change it on the fly... we don't care
[11:45]	Vivienne Daguerre 	We love mesh and we are excited and eager for it. We appreciate your hard work.
[11:46]	Charlar Linden 	ok, next?
[11:46]	Yellow Alloy 	like we've said, we're looking for a GENERAL timeline
[11:46]	Yellow Alloy 	uhh...
[11:46]	Ariel Erlanger 	i don't even really need a timeframe, but i would like to know what those big obstacles are.
[11:46]	Ann Otoole 	so is any consideration being applied to the rapid decline of personal computers? even best buy is scaling back support for personal computers and concentrating on tablets and iphones around here. Future not looking real bright for personal computers at the moment.
[11:46]	Yellow Alloy 	since the agenda has kinda run out... got a kinda stupid question
[11:47]	Charlar Linden 	Yellow - I will get that out to you all as soon as I can.
[11:47]	Charlar Linden 	We still have one
[11:47]	Nyx Linden 	we have good statistics on what hardware people are actually using to log on to SL with, and we want to make sure we can run on that hardware
[11:47]	Charlar Linden 	What is the thinking right now about L$ upload cost of meshes? [Brookston Holiday]
[11:47]	Charlar Linden 	We're thinking it'd be good
[11:47]	Asha 	Good question
[11:48]	Yellow Alloy 	oh
[11:48]	Brookston Holiday 	Like 10L$ per prim equivalient, or 1L$ or 100L$???
[11:48]	Drongle McMahon 	But Nyx, surely if they can;t log on, you can't see them?
[11:48]	And all i got was this lousy DN	10K
[11:48]	Brookston Holiday 	10K, fair-nuff
[11:48]	And all i got was this lousy DN	:P
[11:49]	Brookston Holiday 	Unrelated:(ANyone else having trouble cam-ing close to Racush's kick ass avatar? It's like when I alt-click it focuses on the ground around instead.)
[11:49]	Drongle McMahon 	You can see an upload cost in the Develop|Show Info|Show upload Cost .... iof you bwant to be frightened.
[11:49]	Racush 	try my nametag
[11:50]	Brookston Holiday 	no dice
[11:50]	Yellow Alloy 	and whent he agenda does actually run dry, I'd like to ask my kinda stupid, more LDPW-type (but mesh-related) question...
[11:50]	Asha 	The nametag worked
[11:51]	Ann Otoole 	yea i cammed Racush. Racush proves Cthulu is feasible. But the lack of tail and tentacle rigging is a bummer.
[11:51]	Yellow Alloy 	LOL!
[11:51]	Brookston Holiday 	hmmm.. the benches are 180L$ wow
[11:51]	Racush 	XD
[11:51]	davep 	*probably* not accurate
[11:51]	Charlar Linden 	We do want to encourage uploads; we will generally use it to offset server costs and present an obstacle to 'giefer' type mass uploading
[11:52]	davep 	I think the debug display just takes the streaming cost and multiplies by 10
[11:52]	davep 	(i.e. no basis in reality)
[11:52]	Yellow Alloy 	good
[11:52]	Charlar Linden 	The numbers will be at least somewhat dependant on complexity
[11:52]	Drongle McMahon 	What server costs? You need new servers for mesh?
[11:52]	And all i got was this lousy DN	hiya dan
[11:52]	davep 	server costs == storage and streaming
[11:52]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[11:53]	Brookston Holiday 	wait, what does teir ==???
[11:53]	Brookston Holiday 	tier
[11:53]	Nyx Linden 	storing and streaming 500k doesn't cost much, but doing it a million times adds up :)
[11:54]	davep 	tier pays for the actual sim host and non-asset associated bandwidth and services
[11:54]	davep 	(take my words here with a grain of salt)
[11:54]	Brookston Holiday 	IC
[11:54]	Drongle McMahon 	And there was me thinking it payed your salaries!
[11:54]	Latif Khalifa 	tier overpays 20x the cost of server ;) it's mostly paying for linden salaries ::)
[11:55]	Nyx Linden 	and asset hosting costs are larger than you'd think :)
[11:55]	Ann Otoole 	hopefully some vietnamese bbq and beer too
[11:55]	Ariel Erlanger 	mesh developer salaries!
[11:55]	Nyx Linden 	there's a lot of content we need to store that you guys have created :)
[11:55]	Yellow Alloy 	/me smiles
[11:55]	draconis.neurocam 	i would think the bandwidth would be the most costly
[11:56]	Yellow Alloy 	and thankfully, Emerald/Phoenix seems to have saved more... reducing failed uploads
[11:56]	Ann Otoole 	and with loss of net neutrality we get to be charged for recieving the streams. double charging gambit.
[11:56]	Yellow Alloy 	(unless temporary uploads still cost you guys space)
[11:57]	Nyx Linden 	but yeah, long story short we don't have hard numbers on what upload fees will be
[11:57]	Yellow Alloy 	mmk
[11:57]	Drongle McMahon 	Oh yes. Uploads that work but can't rez .... we need a money-back = delete all copies thingy.
[11:57]	Brookston Holiday 	soooo.... somewhere between 1 and 10L$/prim?
[11:57]	Yellow Alloy 	hopefully they'll be reasonable
[11:57]	Nyx Linden 	unknown yet Brookston
[11:57]	Ariel Erlanger 	is it safe to assume they'll be tied to object complexity?
[11:57]	Brookston Holiday 	kk
[11:57]	Nyx Linden 	complexity will be a factor
[11:57]	Nyx Linden 	that is safe to assume
[11:58]	Nyx Linden 	(we do want to encourage efficient building :) )
[11:58]	Drongle McMahon 	Between 0 and 1000000/prim, Brookstone.
[11:58]	Ariel Erlanger 	^^
[11:58]	Brookston Holiday 	You're a good estimator
[11:58]	Nyx Linden 	and hopefully we will block any uploads that won't rez.
[11:59]	Nyx Linden 	(keeping in mind beta assets we have the right to break in the meantime :) )
[11:59]	Drongle McMahon 	I guess we will still be able to test on Aditi?
[11:59]	Eleanora Newell 	why don't you give us a means to store our things offworld, would dramatically cut down on what you store for us here inworld?
[11:59]	Nyx Linden 	Drongle - of course
[11:59]	Brookston Holiday 	I wonder if it will be a significant new L$ "sink" or just replace sculpty uploads...
[12:00]	Nyx Linden 	elanora - not a bad idea, one that's come up before, but easier said than done :)
[12:00]	Ann Otoole 	if they don't "encourage efficient models" then a lot of vid cards will likely fry making many very upset.
[12:00]	Vivienne Daguerre 	I think $1L per prim equivalent would be fair
[12:00]	davep 	Eleanora: a few reasons, security and reliability for one -- how would you like it if anyone inworld could get your IP just by wearing a texture hosted on their server?
[12:00]	Brookston Holiday 	free to anyone who made a jira during beta
[12:00]	Eleanora Newell 	understood, nyx, but with the cost of storage, one worth pursuing
[12:00]	Asha 	Sculpties are already 10L per prim though.
[12:01]	Yellow Alloy 	Vivienne: Streaming, Physics, or both?
[12:01]	Vivienne Daguerre 	final result, combination of all the above
[12:01]	Ann Otoole 	and some things look perfectly fine with sculpties. you don't have to mesh everything.
[12:01]	Charlar Linden 	Hey guys, we're out of time, and I've got to get to another meeting. Thanks a bunch for all the good feedback.
[12:01]	Yellow Alloy 	mmk
[12:01]	Charlar Linden 	bye
[12:01]	Ariel Erlanger 	thanks for hosting!
[12:02]	Yellow Alloy 	darn... ah well
[12:02]	Vivienne Daguerre 	if you build a house with 100 prims, that is pretty efficient... would not be right to charge 1000 L to upload it
[12:02]	Asha 	Adios Lindens
[12:02]	davep 	thanks for the discussion!
[12:02]	Nyx Linden 	thanks for coming everyone!
[12:02]	Brookston Holiday 	Thanks Lindens
[12:02]	Charlar Linden 	see you next week.
[12:02]	Ariel Erlanger 	it's a date
[12:02]	Eleanora Newell 	if it's something we make, so that it would be similar to the sculpts we upload, not things we buy off others, that would be possible, wouldn't it? most of us with large inventories have them because we are builders
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