User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-11-06

[15:06]	Malbers Linden: 	Yes, Geneko is correct -- HUDs and Big Spaceship 	
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood: 	yumyum spam ^^ 	
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	will ben be stopping by? 	
[15:06]	Crane Zenovka: 	Hi Benjamin 	
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	aha, speak of the devil :) 	
[15:06]	Malbers Linden: 	speak of the devil.... 	
[15:06]	Squirrel Wood: 	Hellos Benjamin! 	
[15:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy ben! *waves* 	
[15:07]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Ahoy Ben! 	
[15:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	(jinx on malbers) 	
[15:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	People seems to like to poke fun on their full-Flash website. 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	oh now I'm the devil 	
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood: 	you have been promoted? ;) 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	lol 	
[15:07]	Malbers Linden: 	large blue staticy devil 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	hi all 	
[15:07]	Squirrel Wood: 	Hellos ^^ 	
[15:07]	Crane Zenovka: 	lol =) 	
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Ben I'll be Avatar just for today 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	sorry I'm late 	
[15:07]	Theodore Folsom: 	whoops ... Hullows @ll 	
[15:07]	Theo says: 	Get your Squirrelly Hand off my nosey. 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	but it wouldn't be me if I wasn't! 	
[15:07]	Benjamin Linden: 	:-) 	
[15:08]	Malbers Linden: 	I know that I'm really a n00b when it comes to HUDs 	
[15:08]	Malbers Linden: 	I don't really use any 	
[15:08]	Squirrel Wood: 	You are not late. You are just in time ^^ 	
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	My poinion that more people need to come here still holds. 	
[15:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	need to pick up a mystitool malbers 	
[15:08]	Malbers Linden: 	what kinds of functionality are best suited for HUDs? 	
[15:08]	Male Equine - Tail: Theodore Folsom Get your hand off my tail or you will make it dirty! 	Male Equine - Tail: Theodore Folsom Get your hand off my tail or you will make it dirty! 	
[15:09]	Squirrel Wood: 	usually information displays, avatar controls and the like 	
[15:09]	Malbers Linden: 	what does the mystitool do? 	
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted uses his hud for radar 	McCabe Maxsted uses his hud for radar 	
[15:09]	Avatar Genira: 	I hate the way huds have such inconsistent interfaces and visual presentation 	
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth does not use HUDs. 	Geneko Nemeth does not use HUDs. 	
[15:09]	Malbers Linden: 	I've had HUDs for av control -- usually special effects 	
[15:09]	Aimee Trescothick: 	radar most common, though that would be nicer in the client 	
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	They take up screen space and hard to move. 	
[15:09]	Avatar Genira: 	hugs kisses etc 	
[15:09]	Squirrel Wood: 	Mystitool: http://www.xstreetsl.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=120285 	
[15:09]	Malbers Linden: 	radar for combat systems? 	
[15:09]	McCabe Maxsted: 	most huds I've seen do radar or combat controls 	
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	no, just for detecting nearby avs 	
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	who's in chat range, etc 	
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Detecting griefers... 	
[15:10]	Aimee Trescothick: 	would be nice to see HUDs get used more for augmented (virtual) reality 	
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you're limited to 16 due to llsensor, but it's so handy 	
[15:10]	McCabe Maxsted: 	wouldn't recommend anyone use SL™ without some form of radar 	
[15:10]	Malbers Linden: 	oh, so radar with extra info -- more than the mini-map? 	
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	For example, names. 	
[15:10]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Some sailboats use a HUD to displaying wind direction, speed, etc., and offer buttons for raising and lowering the sails and so forth 	
[15:10]	Avatar Genira: 	I have a griefing/combat hug with the biggest screen realestate waste - the Quantom Core 	
[15:11]	Aimee Trescothick: 	C:SI does a nice thing when selecting someone to challenge to a dual by placing a box round the avatar in the world view that you can click to select them 	
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Avatar control should go without saying. 	
[15:11]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I pass out the crystal gadget radar to noobs; they never know who's in chat distance and who isn't 	
[15:11]	Malbers Linden wants to see Chareltte's combat hug 	Malbers Linden wants to see Chareltte's combat hug 	
[15:11]	Squirrel Wood: 	I have seen an attempt to create a HUD that would map avatar positions from 3D to 2D, take the camera position and stuff into account to 'draw' boxes around avatars 	
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Whoa, how cute! 	
[15:11]	Avatar Genira: 	only use it to read the User Support IM chat 	
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hmm,,, a linden? 	
[15:11]	Avatar Genira: 	hehe notworth the money otherwise 	
[15:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And hiding behind a console... >_> 	
[15:12]	Aimee Trescothick: 	Squirrel, that's what C:SI does 	
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Interesting 	
[15:12]	Chaley May: 	I used a hud to make a snapshot to use as a sculptie :) 	
[15:12]	Jacek Antonelli: 	How does that work, Chaley? 	
[15:12]	Malbers Linden: 	any HUDs that would be especially useful for new residents? 	
[15:13]	Chaley May: 	it didnt work well too blurry 	
[15:13]	Malbers Linden: 	maybe the radar ones? 	
[15:13]	Avatar Genira: 	my opinion is that a standard interface for HUD building should be developed 	
[15:13]	Avatar Genira: 	there used to be one for noobs 	
[15:13]	Avatar Genira: 	it was badly received 	
[15:13]	Malbers Linden: 	yes, I heard (back there somewhere) that HUD UIs are too disparate 	
[15:13]	Theodore Folsom: 	there was that new users guide once for newbies ... was available on the OIs .... was helpful imho 	
[15:13]	Theodore Folsom: 	was a HUD* 	
[15:13]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yeah, helpful when it worked... 	
[15:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Gesture controls that intergrate with the client, oh that would be sweet~ 	
[15:13]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I'd throw a radar one in by default 	McCabe Maxsted nods. I'd throw a radar one in by default 	
[15:14]	Chaley May: 	i like making HUDs 	
[15:14]	Avatar Genira: 	but I think a noob HUD is a better way to learn than any notecard system would 	
[15:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, I was pretty confused by that Orientation HUD too (among other problems like lag connection across the pacific). 	
[15:14]	Theodore Folsom: 	agreed Avatar 	
[15:14]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hud interfaces would be so much nicer if we had that text-prim idea that was brought up a while back ;) 	
[15:14]	Avatar Genira: 	radar and a few poses, maybe basic AO 	
[15:14]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I have my AO as a HUD. It has buttons for turning on and off, for using a sit pose, etc. Based on ZHAO-II 	
[15:15]	Squirrel Wood: 	HUDs that use a mysql database in the background could be used to provide information for players... like, cool places to visit and such 	
[15:15]	Avatar Genira: 	above att access to help notes 	
[15:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	These, though, really should be built into the viewer by default. 	
[15:15]	Avatar Genira: 	SQL backend would be great - up to date 	
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted would rather see aos become built into the client, but yeah, that's another *really* common. AOs are a right of passage in SL™ culture	McCabe Maxsted would rather see aos become built into the client, but yeah, that's another *really* common. AOs are a right of passage in SL™ culture 	
[15:15]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Another interesting HUD is the FilterCam. It puts image overlays on your screen for special effects when taking pictures. There's one that's white with a picture of an iPhone, but the iPhone screen is transparent so you can see the scene through it, hehe	
[15:15]	McCabe Maxsted: 	"you have stepped up from a noob! here's a new walk" 	
[15:16]	Avatar Genira: 	but a HUD is a way to keep it in one place and detach when no longer used 	
[15:16]	Malbers Linden: 	so I've heard the notion of a "tourguide" HUD for new residents, yes? 	
[15:16]	Avatar Genira: 	that sounds like a gimmick 	
[15:16]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yep, Malbers 	
[15:16]	Squirrel Wood: 	I may have such a "tourguide" hud 	
[15:17]	McCabe Maxsted nods 	McCabe Maxsted nods 	
[15:17]	Avatar Genira: 	that is what I was remembering (main account) 	
[15:17]	Squirrel Wood: 	basically its a pda-style image viewer 	
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom: 	i found it 	
[15:17]	Malbers Linden: 	is that better as a HUD or just built into the Viewer in other ways? 	
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom: 	i have one 	
[15:17]	Aimee Trescothick: 	thing with tour type things is that they need to be actively kept up to date 	
[15:17]	Theodore Folsom: 	who needs? 	
[15:17]	Avatar Genira: 	for noobs I think a video would be the best way to introduce SL like games do 	
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's best if HUDs can run on the Viewer, makes things faster. 	
[15:17]	Aimee Trescothick: 	they easily get out of date 	
[15:18]	Avatar Genira: 	know the video is a problem 	
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you mean like a video intro? 	
[15:18]	Avatar Genira: 	yes like all the games 	
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not all the games... 	
[15:18]	Chaley May: 	would be more fun if the tour guide was a well made robot they could follow in world 	
[15:18]	Avatar Genira: 	this is what it is this is what you are this is what you do 	
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Navi? Is that you? 	
[15:18]	McCabe Maxsted: 	interesting idea. Good excuse to put a guitar solo into the viewer XD 	
[15:18]	Avatar Genira: 	hehe 	
[15:18]	Aimee Trescothick: 	heh, virtual tourguide rendered as an avatar only they can see 	
[15:19]	Aimee Trescothick: 	invisible friend lol 	
[15:19]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hah 	
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Although I wouldn't say no to the Navi idea. 	
[15:19]	Avatar Genira: 	my own mentor to torture 	
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Invisible friend FTW~ 	
[15:19]	Avatar Genira: 	SL Mental Griefer 	
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Being able to contact a mentor through the Navi. Would also be an interesting idea. 	
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Ohmygosh. It grew big. 	
[15:20]	Malbers Linden sees that Squirrel is using his vast knowledge of SL to rez things sneakily 	Malbers Linden sees that Squirrel is using his vast knowledge of SL to rez things sneakily 	
[15:20]	McCabe Maxsted: 	haha. Noobhelper Linden says "I see that you've logged into SL. Would you like to create a spreadsheet?" 	
[15:20]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hahahaha 	
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick: 	:D 	
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nothing says that you can rez stuff on another parcel and drag it in the client strings... >_< 	
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick: 	you could have different ones for different entry channels 	
[15:21]	Malbers Linden: 	are there HUDs that are well tuned for Builders? 	
[15:21]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or let people make their own. 	
[15:21]	Avatar Genira: 	I had a parrot freestandin here last week, great pictures 	
[15:21]	Squirrel Wood points out that this is a hud that only uses a few key control elements 	Squirrel Wood points out that this is a hud that only uses a few key control elements 	
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick: 	"FightClub Linden breaks your legs and says "NOW learn to walk"" 	
[15:21]	Avatar Genira: 	we need menus for HUDs like the rest of the viewer 	
[15:22]	Avatar Genira: 	instead of dialogs 	
[15:22]	Squirrel Wood: 	I think there are HUDs for builders that let you rez differently shaped prims 	
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I've heard of a good builder tool in a HUD, Prim.Docker? 	
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or something like that. 	
[15:22]	Aimee Trescothick: 	yeah, a lot of people use Prim.Docker for building 	
[15:22]	McCabe Maxsted nods. I've used that from time to time, it's not bad 	McCabe Maxsted nods. I've used that from time to time, it's not bad 	
[15:22]	Jacek Antonelli: 	It has a lot of texture and prim alignment options. But it requires you to put a script in every prim you're building with 	
[15:22]	Aimee Trescothick: 	I generally find it quicker to just do things by numbers 	
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick: 	than keep dropping scripts around 	
[15:23]	Avatar Genira: 	that is bad news if it requires scripts, unless it wipes them 	
[15:23]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Also, there's a HUD that will rez megaprims for you at your current location, since they can be hard to place. 	
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick: 	it does wipe them 	
[15:23]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I'd really like to see stuff like tutorials put into huds rather than built into the viewer, as they could show wrong information when people travel around the open grid 	
[15:24]	Avatar Genira: 	good that is essential (too many scripts running already) 	
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick: 	yup the megaprim searching HUD "Salt is handy 	
[15:24]	Benjamin Linden: 	what do you mean McCabe? 	
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ooh have you used the salt hud? it searches a database of all the megaprims made 	
[15:24]	Avatar Genira: 	McCabe is right 	
[15:24]	Aimee Trescothick: 	gives you the closest sizes it can find to what you ask for 	
[15:24]	McCabe Maxsted: 	well, if you have NUE stuff built into a viewer, and someone's logging into say litesim, it'll be inaccurate 	
[15:24]	Avatar Genira: 	it should stand out from the interface and be optional 	
[15:25]	Avatar Genira: 	get new different HUDs inworld 	
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	That's why we have [APP_NAME] all over in the SL client. 	
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Unfortunately there still are a lot of strings that involves SL or Lindens... 	
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted: 	well, there's already been a "balkanization" of viewers; all the new grids that are starting to pop up are releasing their own viewers 	
[15:26]	Benjamin Linden: 	so you're saying use huds so they can be customized for the particular server they're on? 	
[15:26]	Jacek Antonelli: 	That's it, Ben 	
[15:26]	McCabe Maxsted nods. That'd be nice 	McCabe Maxsted nods. That'd be nice 	
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It does make more sense: normally people won't think that "I want to connect to Second Life" yet, 	
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	instead just "I want to use Second Life[application]". 	
[15:27]	Avatar Genira: 	HUDs are a very good way to customise the viewer inworld 	
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Although all people going to alt grids know the distinction well already. 	
[15:27]	Squirrel Wood: 	Aye. 	
[15:27]	Avatar Genira: 	the Cool viewer lets you select the grid 	
[15:28]	Squirrel Wood: 	HUDs allow for dynamic change that quickly adapts to new stuff whereas the UI itself is somewhat static 	
[15:28]	Avatar Genira: 	Cool patch I should have said (old interface however) 	
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden: 	how does the server you're on affect tutorial content? 	
[15:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	new people won't know though, especially when the agent domain is up and we can tp around to other grids; you want your viewer to be able to adapt to that 	
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	For example, on GenekoSim there won't be any Lindens, 	
[15:28]	Avatar Genira: 	hehe 	
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden: 	the tutorial in the current viewer actually references a web site 	
[15:28]	Benjamin Linden: 	which can be easily updated 	
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Instead administrators will be called Kittens. 	
[15:29]	Avatar Genira: 	and avatars would all be animals 	
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So there won't be any Governor Linden either, this means "give up to Governor Linden" won't make any sense. 	
[15:29]	Squirrel Wood: 	Give up to Governor Kitten 	
[15:30]	Malbers Linden: 	Do/Have any of you created a HUD? 	
[15:30]	Malbers Linden: 	Is it easy? 	
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	it could reference something on the server, that each person's grid could modify 	
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nope, never. 	
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah, a few times 	
[15:30]	Chaley May: 	i made incomplete HUDs :) 	
[15:30]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I have. It's just a scripted attachment. The difficulty of it depends on the complexity of the functionality 	
[15:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	it's tricksy :) especially whe you own land and "drop" is disabled (always hated that ui bug) 	
[15:30]	Squirrel Wood: 	HUDs have the downside that you have to build them pretty small inworld or they will clog up two and a half screens when you attach them 	
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick: 	It would be nice to be able to go beyond the 2D HUD and be able to provide 3D interfaces projected in-world that only you can see 	
[15:31]	Avatar Genira: 	just a bunch of scripts and UI graphics 	
[15:31]	Chaley May: 	i think you can do that with HUDs 	
[15:31]	Avatar Genira: 	HUDs inworld would have to be attached to avatar, not the best look and not secret 	
[15:31]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I've been thinking about something like that for the movement controls aimee; transparent arrows surrounding your avatar instead of wasting screen space on a window 	
[15:31]	Chaley May: 	make them look more 3D 	
[15:31]	Avatar Genira: 	private 	
[15:32]	Avatar Genira: 	all prims look flat when attached to HUD 	
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick nods, that sort of thing 	Aimee Trescothick nods, that sort of thing 	
[15:32]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Field of Vision. 	
[15:32]	Avatar Genira: 	I like to see my avatar as a person, no arrows 	
[15:32]	Squirrel Wood: 	the prims look flat until you rotate them. though for proper perspective you will have to employ a number of tricks. 	
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick: 	a hugger "hud" for example could show buttons next to each avatar in view 	
[15:32]	Squirrel Wood: 	and that involves icky math 	
[15:33]	Avatar Genira: 	image is the most important thing to most users 	
[15:33]	Jacek Antonelli: 	One of the difficulties of HUDs is that there are no standard widgets or UI controls. No text fields or scroll bars. Only prims that you can click on. 	
[15:33]	Avatar Genira: 	yes the math would be ugly 	
[15:33]	Chaley May: 	im not sure if light sorces affect HUDs at all too so surfaces look the same color 	
[15:33]	Avatar Genira: 	and dependant on the camera position 	
[15:33]	McCabe Maxsted: 	one problem: huds remember screen resolution, but don't adjust position when resultion changes. so if somenoe builds a hud on a widescreen monitor, it won't show up on your regular monitor since it's being drawn off screen 	
[15:33]	Avatar Genira: 	2D HUDs are the norm 	
[15:33]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Also it would be hard to make text that align to screen pixels. 	
[15:33]	Malbers Linden: 	So, the HUD-building tools are nonexistant and the lack of a standard set of HUD controls hamper HUD development? 	
[15:34]	Squirrel Wood: 	another problem with huds: floating text size depends on UI scale 	
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted: 	yeah 	
[15:34]	Avatar Genira: 	HUDs are just script texture and animation files in a prim really 	
[15:34]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Yes. As well as the built-in limitations of LSL 	
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Give me XUI+client side script HUDs and that would be super! 	
[15:34]	Aimee Trescothick: 	the maths for coping with the 3D aspect are in the client, you just need to render them as "local only" prims 	
[15:34]	McCabe Maxsted: 	huds really need to be abstracted from attachments 	
[15:34]	Avatar Genira: 	LSL is the weakest point 	
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted: 	even wearing them is a pain 	
[15:35]	McCabe Maxsted: 	because when you change outfits, it changes your huds 	
[15:35]	Avatar Genira: 	that can be good and a pain at the same time 	
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	On the other hand though building HUDs from Prims does have the advantage thta you can show them to everyone ^^ 	
[15:35]	Chaley May: 	yes its annoting how everything detaches 	
[15:35]	Chaley May: 	we need to be able to lock attachments 	
[15:35]	Avatar Genira: 	eg my TinyMatic is with an outfit which is appropriate 	
[15:35]	Chaley May: 	especially HUDs 	
[15:36]	Squirrel Wood: 	I just put the HUDs I always use in a separate folder and after changing outfits I shift-drag & drop that folder onto me avatar 	
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted: 	locking huds, interesting idea 	
[15:36]	Geneko Nemeth: 	... that kinda makes you want to suggest XUI on a prim... 	
[15:36]	Avatar Genira: 	look above Tiny need diff stuff 	
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted: 	that'd work for avatars that use a custom ao hud... 	
[15:36]	McCabe Maxsted: 	adn rely on forced switching 	
[15:36]	Avatar Genira: 	some outfits need their own HUDs like Neko tails and ears 	
[15:37]	Chaley May: 	i think its possible to create a fully 3D world entirely on HUDs 	
[15:37]	Squirrel Wood: 	HUDs are also dependent on script performance. If the sim is bogged down, your HUD will react slow, if at all. 	
[15:37]	Chaley May: 	i mean the HUDs are the world 	
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not to mention connection delay. 	
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hah, a second life client HUD 	
[15:37]	Avatar Genira: 	so not all HUDs are universal (mine are mostly related to outfit) except for navigation and combat HUDs 	
[15:37]	Aimee Trescothick: 	we like recursion 	
[15:37]	Chaley May: 	each attachment could be an avatar 	
[15:38]	Avatar Genira: 	hehe 	
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted: 	huds could be pretty awesome if there were some sort of development kit... and we didn't have to use laggy xyzzy-text... 	
[15:38]	Chaley May: 	one attachment for environments 	
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And common animation/effect HUDs... 	
[15:38]	Squirrel Wood: 	xyzzy is ten times less laggy if you compile it to mono ^^ 	
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ugh, that makes me sad 	
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oh, less 	
[15:38]	McCabe Maxsted: 	thought you said more, der 	
[15:39]	Malbers Linden: 	There are benefts to HUD attachment to avatar? 	
[15:39]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Uncaught ParseException. 	
[15:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	wonder how long it'll take for people to use mono versions, especially since I think a lot of people get it from freebie boxes and scripts in inv are only LSL.. 	
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Sort of. Because it's attached, it can do things in LSL like override animations and move your avatar around 	
[15:40]	Jacek Antonelli: 	But if those limitations weren't there in LSL, there would be no reason to have them attached 	
[15:40]	McCabe Maxsted nods 	McCabe Maxsted nods 	
[15:41]	Avatar Genira: 	I think there is nothing wrong with HUDs being attached as it is 	
[15:41]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Well, it is a bit troublesome that there are a limited number of attachment points for HUDs 	
[15:41]	Geneko Nemeth: 	.... 	
[15:41]	Theodore Folsom: 	ack 	
[15:42]	McCabe Maxsted: 	that does seem like an artificial limitation 	
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nice Sound Effect, Squirrel ^^ 	
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But, it does seem a bit big... how large of a screen would this need? 	
[15:43]	Squirrel Wood: 	this one is optimized for a 4:3 display 	
[15:43]	Avatar Genira: 	that is true but you can edit them into position which could be replaced with more fixed attachment points 	
[15:43]	Avatar Genira: 	4:3 is dead now 	
[15:43]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, but for the floating text to fit in the buttons... 	
[15:43]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Not dead yet, Avatar 	
[15:43]	McCabe Maxsted: 	give it a while 	
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood: 	floating text depends on UI scale/size 	
[15:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	getting there, though 	
[15:44]	Squirrel Wood: 	1.0 or smaller will look ok 	
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh, right... 	
[15:44]	Avatar Genira: 	nearly even if I love my 24" Compaq screen 	
[15:45]	Avatar Genira: 	the size is a prob now because it is texture based 	
[15:45]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Could we take the last 15 minutes to talk about Big Spaceship? 	
[15:45]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Agreed. 	
[15:45]	Hyper-Flute Composer Edition v3 (HUD1-Upper): Playing Score 'Close Encounters Theme... (Transcribed for Hyper-Flute by Gunkeeper Nabob)' 	Hyper-Flute Composer Edition v3 (HUD1-Upper): Playing Score 'Close Encounters Theme... (Transcribed for Hyper-Flute by Gunkeeper Nabob)' 	
[15:45]	Avatar Genira: 	should be able to make them of UI elements like the build floater 	
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden: 	sure, were folks finished discussing HUDs? 	
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted: 	fine by me 	
[15:46]	Benjamin Linden: 	Malbers, did you get what you needed? 	
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I think we'll probably still keep it next week... 	
[15:46]	Malbers Linden: 	Good start. There is always more. 	
[15:46]	Jacek Antonelli: 	We could talk for days about HUDs, hehe 	
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood: 	^^ 	
[15:46]	McCabe Maxsted grins 	McCabe Maxsted grins 	
[15:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Why nobody talked on sl-ux about HUDs? 	
[15:46]	Squirrel Wood: 	't was a pain to script that one behind me :p 	
[15:46]	Malbers Linden: 	Could continue the talk about HUDs on SL-UX. 	
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I have six questions I've prepared about Big Spaceship and the project 	
[15:47]	Jacek Antonelli: 	The big one is: What will Big Spaceship be working on, specifically? The viewer interface? New user orientation? On the web, in-world? 	
[15:47]	Malbers Linden thinks Jacek comes TOO prepared 	Malbers Linden thinks Jacek comes TOO prepared 	
[15:47]	Benjamin Linden: 	Jacek comes prepared :-) 	
[15:48]	Malbers Linden: 	would you like Ben to take these one at a time OR wait until you ask all 6 Qs? 	
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Let's do one at a time, I think 	
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden: 	right now Big Spaceship is putting together a set of recommendations related to the new user experience, from the minute the user hits sl.com, through registration, into the client and their first in-world experiences 	
[15:49]	Mm Alder: 	Based on them being newbies? 	
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hopefully that doesn't include gratuitous amounts of Flash ^_^ 	
[15:49]	Avatar Genira: 	will it help track griefers 	
[15:49]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay. I take it there aren't any specific plans about what they're going to change, then? 	
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden: 	they are doing design explorations and prototypes but not building anything functional in this phase 	
[15:49]	Avatar Genira: 	or just criminals 	
[15:49]	Benjamin Linden: 	that's correct Jacek 	
[15:50]	Benjamin Linden: 	we're in the very preliminary phases 	
[15:50]	McCabe Maxsted: 	"in this phase" meaning no viewer work is planned for now, but what about the future? 	
[15:50]	Mm Alder: 	What problem are they trying to solve? 	
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Will they be building something functional after the design phase? 	
[15:50]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Or will LL be doing the building? 	
[15:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Whoa that's a lot of questions. 	
[15:51]	Mm Alder: 	...and not many answers. 	
[15:51]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe 	
[15:51]	Benjamin Linden: 	I'm scrolling back 	
[15:52]	Benjamin Linden: 	McCabe, we have done some preliminary thinking about the Viewer UI but detailed design hasn't yet begun 	
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden: 	Mm, at a high level the problem we're trying to solve with Big Spaceship's help is user retention 	
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden: 	or lack thereof :-) 	
[15:53]	Jacek Antonelli: 	hehe 	
[15:53]	Benjamin Linden: 	Jacek, implementation details haven't yet been worked out 	
[15:53]	Mm Alder: 	Have you surveyed users to see why they leave? 	
[15:53]	Avatar Genira: 	need to be prepared for high churn since about half come here to find dates 	
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or a game. 	
[15:54]	Avatar Genira: 	no kidding I practicall live 24/7 in a welcome area 	
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You can only type so fast, unless you are an AMS agent and need to kill zombies with your typing. 	
[15:54]	Benjamin Linden: 	implementation will likely be handled through a combination of internal and external development resources 	
[15:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Is it even possible to survey leaving users... oh yeah maybe on uninstalling client... 	
[15:54]	Squirrel Wood: 	I hope they are taking suggestions from the community into account 	
[15:54]	Avatar Genira: 	the gamers don't fing extrinsic rewards, daters don't find partners 	
[15:55]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I'm curious about how Big Spaceship was chosen. Am I correct in assuming that LL chose to outsource it because of limited resources (personell) within the Lab? Or to leverage BS's design experience? 	
[15:55]	Avatar Genira: 	so they both give up 	
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden: 	that's an interesting observation Avatar 	
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden: 	why do you spend so much time in welcome areas? 	
[15:55]	Avatar Genira: 	I said I live in a welcome area, practically sleep by the PC 	
[15:55]	Benjamin Linden: 	yes we have surveyed users 	
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden: 	Squirrel, we're working on a plan to gather and respond to community feedback during the course of the project 	
[15:56]	Avatar Genira: 	just look at the logs from Korea1 and you will be surprised 	
[15:56]	Mm Alder: 	So what did the survey say? 	
[15:56]	Benjamin Linden: 	Jacek, the decision was a combination of both the factors you mentioned 	
[15:57]	Avatar Genira: 	people don't tell truth in surveys and those that take them are never a representative sample 	
[15:57]	Benjamin Linden: 	Big Spaceship was chosen during a competitive pitch process with several other design agencies 	
[15:57]	Camber Front Door: Gaio Kiranov is at the door. 	Camber Front Door: Gaio Kiranov is at the door. 	
[15:57]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Great, that answers my next question :) 	
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Kinda makes me curious who are the other candidates. 	
[15:57]	Avatar Genira: 	read the logs listen for a few days and you get a better opinion 	
[15:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Welcome area eh. 	
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden: 	Avatar, what are you referring to? 	
[15:58]	Benjamin Linden: 	logs from welcome areas? 	
[15:58]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Is there a timeframe for the project? Or is it too early for that yet? 	
[15:58]	Avatar Genira: 	what users come here for and the reasons for the hight churn 	
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden: 	Jacek, it's too early to know specific timelines 	
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Okay 	
[15:59]	Avatar Genira: 	the high churn is inevitable and we should not run LL based on trying to change that 	
[15:59]	Pop Lubitsch: 	Boo! 	
[15:59]	Benjamin Linden: 	we're nearly at time, Jacek did you have another question we can answer quickly? 	
[15:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	.... 	
[15:59]	Mm Alder: 	Do you even know if the problem is usability? 	
[15:59]	Jacek Antonelli: 	My curiosity has been satisfied, thanks :) 	
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden: 	Mm, my sense is that usability one part of a multi-faceted problem 	
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden: 	ok great, thanks for those questions Jacek 	
[16:00]	McCabe Maxsted nods agreement to that 	McCabe Maxsted nods agreement to that 	
[16:00]	Malbers Linden: 	Yeah, almost all problems we have now are multifaceted with experience design as one facet 	
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden: 	alright folks, I have to run. thanks again for your participation 	
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Okay, seeya. 	
[16:00]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Thanks for taking the time, Ben. Take care! 	
[16:00]	Avatar Genira: 	bye Benj 	
[16:00]	Malbers Linden: 	Yes, thanks for HUD and Big Space ship discussions 	
[16:00]	Benjamin Linden: 	I guess we're reconvening officially again next month? 	
[16:00]	Theodore Folsom: 	Byes ^^ 	
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	take care ben :) 	
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden: 	I may try to pop in between now and then 	
[16:01]	Squirrel Wood: 	Have a nice weekend ^^ 	
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden: 	just to check on you guys :-) 	
[16:01]	Malbers Linden: 	Yep, we are now on our once-a-month scehdule 	
[16:01]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Correct, Ben. But we'll still be having unofficial discussions here each week :D 	
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Cool then. So next week's topic? 	
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden: 	ok cool, thanks Jacek 	
[16:01]	Malbers Linden: 	I'm sure we'll be communicating in the SL-UX alias. 	
[16:01]	Avatar Genira: 	so next week is out? 	
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Anyone have an idea on the topic, put it on the Wiki pages and/or in the mailing list! 	
[16:01]	Benjamin Linden: 	take care everybody! 	
[16:02]	Avatar Genira: 	pooff 	
[16:02]	Squirrel Wood: 	name the wiki url ? 	
[16:02]	Malbers Linden: 	we have something on the wiki already. Looking..... 	
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I've made a wiki page about the interest group. There's a link to a page for people to add topics -- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group 	
[16:02]	Jacek Antonelli: 	Topics: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Experience_Interest_Group/Topics 	
[16:02]	Avatar Genira: 	good i was waiting for that, do we have to register? 	
[16:02]	Malbers Linden: 	oh crap. we already have this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Experience 	
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Where do we put the logs though? On Malbers' page on the RXIG page? 	
[16:03]	Malbers Linden: 	we'll have to make sure we have pointers back-and-forth 	
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli: 	No problem, Malbers 	
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Now where did I put that formatting script to? 	
[16:03]	Jacek Antonelli: 	I'll post up today's transcript, by the way 	
[16:04]	Malbers Linden: 	awesome. thanks Jacek