Bug triage/2008-01-14/Transcript

* [12:04] Aric Linden: lols
* [12:04] Aric Linden: Yah, no kidding squirrel
* [12:04] Aric Linden: let's give it one more minute
* [12:05] Nika Talaj: Actually, I do have one non-agenda item just to mention as well.
* [12:05] Aric Linden: shall we start with that Nika?
* [12:05] Nika Talaj: ok
* [12:06] Squirrel Wood: Think Music ^^
* [12:06] Nika Talaj: Well, I have an issue on the Jira right now, WEB-448, which is not actually an engineering issue -
* [12:06] Nika Talaj: (It's about forum moderation)
* [12:06] Nika Talaj: and I just wanted to ask folks not to close it or anything, tho of course it can't be triaged here I would imagine?
* [12:07] Nika Talaj: even tho it has 39 votes in the first week, lol
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: 
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: for people to pull up
* [12:08] Nika Talaj: We're talking to Robin about it etc. .
* [12:08] Soft Linden: Who was the Linden appointed as interim moderator? Maybe we should ask them what they think on this.
* [12:08] Nika Talaj: Aki Linden, we've talked to her, and she is on the watch list for it
* [12:09] Aric Linden: I think we should also discuss this with Jeska
* [12:09] Aric Linden: or maybe torley?
* [12:09] Nika Talaj: We did talk to Torley about it, actually it was more like selling it to him :)
* [12:09] Soft Linden: Could add both as watchers, assign it to whoever leads that stuff.
* [12:09] Aric Linden: hmmm
* [12:10] Nika Talaj: We've talked to Robin also.
* [12:10] Aric Linden: I think this is a community issue, but I'm guessing not positive
* [12:10] Aric Linden: what was robin's feedback?
* [12:10] Nika Talaj: Robin was very impressed with our enthusiasm and the positive nature of the current forum community.
* [12:11] Nika Talaj: And is thinking of bundling this with some other forum restructuring.
* [12:11] Aric Linden: I see
* [12:11] Nika Talaj: I realize the forums have a bad rep from things that happened over a year ago,
* [12:11] Aric Linden: I'll try to ask about it to make sure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: Nika, not being a big forum reader (lack of time) does this relate to Strife and his asking for mods?
* [12:12] Nika Talaj: But the current community is very strong.
* [12:12] Nika Talaj: Yes, it does ... same forum, same problem.
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:12] Nika Talaj: Strife has voted for this issue, and added a rather paassionate comment as well.
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: I did read the different threads on that as them popped up
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: is he stepping down?
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: or just asking for more?
* [12:13] Nika Talaj: He has, yes.
* [12:13] Soft Linden: If this role was filled by a resident before, a good way to help advance this would be to select a few candidates and explicitly nominate them for this role. If it's clear there's agreement on one or two, that could make it much easier for LL to act.
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: wanted to make sure I was up to date :) thank you
* [12:13] Nika Talaj: We have 31 volunteer candidates now.
* [12:13] Aric Linden: in the meantime, I won't close it. Generally, I'm the most frequent issue closer in pjira
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: I agree Soft
* [12:13] Aric Linden: I also agree with soft
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: I have no reason to close either
* [12:14] Squirrel Wood: those who do not beg for such power tend to be best suited for such things :)
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: I agree completely
* [12:14] Squirrel Wood: As they are much less likely to abuse / misuse it
* [12:14] Aric Linden: nods - no one who wants to be president should be allowed
* [12:14] Nika Talaj: We put together a proposal for how to proceed, recommending having a group of resmods
* [12:14] Aric Linden: what can we do to help you move this forward, Nika?
* [12:15] Nika Talaj: Which we hope would mitigate the tendency to "rule" lol
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: can you send me a list of the people Nika?
* [12:15] Nika Talaj: I can, I'll also send anyone who is interested a pointer to the presentation
* [12:15] Nika Talaj: (it's on google)
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: that would be great, thank you
* [12:16] Aric Linden: I'd love to look at the presentation
* [12:16] Alexa Linden: I can then get to Soft, Aric and any other needed parties
* [12:16] Aric Linden: that'd be swell, Alexa
* [12:16] Squirrel Wood: SVC-99999 - Give Lindens a skin/fur tight spandex super hero suit so that they may come to the rescue in style ;)
* [12:16] Nika Talaj: Great.
* [12:16] Aric Linden: thanks
* [12:16] Alexa Linden: runs to vote on that one
* [12:16] Nika Talaj: lol squirrel!
* [12:17] Aric Linden: Shall we move on?
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: damn p voting's closed :\
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: sure
* [12:17] Nika Talaj: Thank you all
* [12:17] Soft Linden: closes Squirrel's issue as duplicate - already have one.
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: smiles at Nika
* [12:17] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [12:17] Soft Linden: Monday is laundry day - only reason you don't ever see it.
* [12:17] Aric Linden: Not a ton of stuff today. I think we may need to rotate prep for this meeting
* [12:17] Aric Linden: first up is vwr-3000
* [12:18] Squirrel Wood: Oh yes. That one's very annoying
* [12:19] Soft Linden: I've seen this one, but only when really bandwidth starved, like I'm running bittorrent with unrestricted speed settings. Are others seeing this regularly?
* [12:19] Squirrel Wood: My line has recently been upgraded to 25mbit down / 2mbit up so I might not get to experience it
* [12:20] Aric Linden: I know there are fairly regular complaints about it
* [12:20] Harleen Gretzky: Nicholaz thinks he has solved the attachments on your butt syndrome, son't know if these two are related in any way though.
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:20] Squirrel Wood: asstachments... rarely happen to me but they do happen
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: great word
* [12:21] Aric Linden: We discuss this issue frequently at the internal triage
* [12:21] Popgun (drag: onto yourself) whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
* [12:21] Popgun (drag: onto yourself) whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
* [12:21] Soft Linden: nous parlons l'anglais ici - non comprender - ce sont des isles por le francaise - dans 'search,' 'francais'
* [12:21] Babbler3.17: me:
* [12:21] Babbler3.17: me: 
* [12:22] Aric Linden: I'm not sure exactly what we can do about it beyond continued improvments in assest management.
* [12:22] Bridie Linden: nods
* [12:22] Soft Linden: Well, there's one issue we're doing for adding metrics to attachment transfers, anyway. We could import this and mark it as related.
* [12:22] Aric Linden: I do think we should take this in and let it again fuel discussion
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: mark with Triaged date?
* [12:22] Aric Linden: heh
* [12:22] Aric Linden: great minds soft
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: ok - will take in
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: assign to?
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Sure, go ahead and assign it to me.
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: done
* [12:23] Aric Linden: vwr-3878
* [12:23] Soft Linden: I'll link it up and then unassign it for now - if we see increasing votes, we can raise its priority and put it on someone
* [12:23] Alexa Linden: ok - I'll leave for you to do
* [12:23] Squirrel Wood: 3878 just happened to me... 15-20 second "freeze" with the sl client using up 100% cpu time
* [12:24] Aric Linden: yep, I see that one all the time at home on my g5
* [12:25] Aric Linden: I think we should take this one
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Sure, let's take this one in, get it to triage.
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:25] Aric Linden: nods
* [12:25] Aric Linden: vwr-4057
* [12:26] Aric Linden: I think we just looked at this one internally last week
* [12:27] Aric Linden: Bridie, do you recall this one?
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: I do
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: your triage
* [12:27] Bridie Linden: looks
* [12:27] Bridie Linden: nods
* [12:27] Bridie Linden: already imported
* [12:27] Aric Linden: thanks,
* [12:27] Aric Linden: I'll assign it to me in pjira as well
* [12:28] Soft Linden: Next one has the wrong JIRA on it - it duplicates the first.
* [12:28] Bridie Linden: Steve's team took it but bumped it down to small
* [12:28] Aric Linden: I think vwr-3878 is also imported
* [12:28] Aric Linden: yep
* [12:30] Harleen Gretzky: VWR-3877 was what it was suupposed to be
* [12:30] Aric Linden: vwr-4111
* [12:31] Squirrel Wood: whatever issue number it was - I think the patches should at least be looked over :)
* [12:31] Soft Linden: VWR-4111 - should import and check. It'll take just a few seconds.
* [12:31] Aric Linden: agreed squirrel; let's take 4111 for triage
* [12:31] Harleen Gretzky: Agenda is fixed if you refresh
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:31] Aric Linden: let's go back to 3877
* [12:31] Soft Linden: 3877 is already imported.
* [12:32] Squirrel Wood: btw... who made the jira load pages in less than 10 seconds? I'm not used to such speedy responses :p
* [12:33] Aric Linden: credit rob linden for that one
* [12:33] Squirrel Wood: Give him a hug from me then if you can ^^
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: will do!
* [12:33] Aric Linden: vwr-4110 is next
* [12:33] Aric Linden: we should grab this one
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: traige?
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: triage*
* [12:34] Aric Linden: yes please
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:34] Aric Linden: I'm goint to look at the misc pool
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Ah, took me a bit to see what's going on. 4110 just adds a space to the start of each line.
* [12:35] Aric Linden: vwr-4148
* [12:36] Aric Linden: nice. I've seen this one myself
* [12:36] Aric Linden: It'd be lovely to get a consistent repro on this
* [12:36] Squirrel Wood: sloped land... I guess someone wants to be able to build caves below ground level
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: tries to load the .bmp
* [12:36] Gigs Taggart: Too bad they couldn't save that directly as jpeg from the client.
* [12:36] Aric Linden: heya gigs
* [12:36] Gigs Taggart: hi
* [12:37] Soft Linden: I've only seen this - pushed underground - with griefing objects. More detail on how they accomplished it would be useful.
* [12:37] Aric Linden: agreed. Can we request more info?
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: sure
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: what would we like them to provide?
* [12:38] Lillie Yifu: I've often logged into sl below ground at 10,10,10 or 0,0,0
* [12:38] Squirrel Wood: mayhaps the location?
* [12:38] Aric Linden: yes. location, steps for repro, if there seemed to be a lot of load when they saw the issue
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:39] Aric Linden: I know James
* [12:39] Squirrel Wood: Oh My... CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2000 MHz) ^^
* [12:39] Aric Linden: He's a good scripter
* [12:39] Aric Linden: I know but he
* [12:39] Aric Linden: seems to be running on a mac
* [12:40] Aric Linden: and using an intel card (so it's probably a macwin laptop
* [12:40] Chilli Cao: couldnt he compress them into jpgs ^^
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Yeah. Mac Intel CPUs aren't identified explicitly on any of my Core2Duo machines. They end up with generic i386
* [12:41] Aric Linden: this might be a function of the intel card struggling
* [12:41] Aric Linden: anyway svc-1113 is next
* [12:41] Soft Linden: And yeah, that'd have to be a MacBook or a Mac Mini.
* [12:42] Squirrel Wood: Unjoining a diagonally adjacent parcel to place for sale triggered entire land holdings to go up for sale and taken by a land bot for the price set for the smaller diagonal parcel. Zecksnine 90,195, 46 on December 24 between 19:50 and 20:10 Description Unjoining a diagonally adjacent parcel to place for sale triggered entire land holdings to go up for sale and taken by a land bot for the price set for the smaller diagonal parcel. Zecksnine 90,195, 46 on December 24 between 19:50 and 20:10 Show »
* [12:42] Soft Linden: 1113 is a support issue. Dividing a parcel definitely doesn't put it up for sale, and you can definitely subdivide an angle-joined piece.
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: I wonder if it was set for sale then divided
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: would that put both parts up for sale?
* [12:43] Soft Linden: Nah, dividing cancels for sale status.
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: want me to close and send to support?
* [12:43] Aric Linden: yes please
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: noted
* [12:43] Soft Linden: Ya
* [12:43] Squirrel Wood: windlight client likes to crash when camera is focussed on other player who logs out... does that qualify as bug? has it been reported yet?
* [12:44] Aric Linden: web-397
* [12:44] Soft Linden: Squirrel - first I've heard - would search the JIRA
* [12:44] Gigs Taggart: Soft wait, there was one very much like 1113 before.
* [12:44] Gigs Taggart: Soft we couldn't reproduce it but this means it happened more than once.
* [12:44] Aric Linden: it's abug if it's reproducible
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: re: land division and land going on sale?
* [12:45] Gigs Taggart: the entire region/other parcels going up for sale after a parcel operation
* [12:45] Gigs Taggart: I seem to recall one like that before
* [12:45] Aric Linden: Gigs you might be thinking of the divide the parcel into thirds bug
* [12:45] Gigs Taggart: I'll search
* [12:45] Alexa Linden: thanks
* [12:45] Aric Linden: where the middle third can't be put up for sale. we just saw that recently
* [12:45] Lillie Yifu: hmmm
* [12:46] Lillie Yifu: I think I have some insight on this one
* [12:46] Lillie Yifu: many people don't know that you can join disjointed parcels in the same sim into one parcel
* [12:46] Aric Linden: on web 387 Lillie?
* [12:46] Lillie Yifu: it could well ahve been the user joined tow parcels that eren't continguous or were only joined at one point
* [12:46] Lillie Yifu: and dit not realize they ahd done it
* [12:46] Gigs Taggart: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-936
* [12:46] Gigs Taggart: maybe it's this
* [12:46] Lillie Yifu: on 113
* [12:47] Lillie Yifu: sorry 1113
* [12:47] Lillie Yifu: it might be a "feature not sufficiently documented" or interface issue
* [12:47] Aric Linden: possibly
* [12:48] Aric Linden: Alexa, let's assign it to triage and that team can discuss
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: will do
* [12:48] Lillie Yifu: so what would have happend is user had joined two disjoint parcels, didn't know they had done it, and then put what they thought was one parcel for sale.
* [12:48] Gigs Taggart: lillie yeah I know what you are talking about there
* [12:48] Gigs Taggart: that disjoint parcels can exist
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: want me to cross link to Gigs?
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: and ask if same issue?
* [12:49] Gigs Taggart: there may be another one, I remember trying to reproduce it with packet loss conditions :P
* [12:49] Gigs Taggart: and I couldn't succeed
* [12:49] Lillie Yifu: 936 could be the same thing
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: so back to WEB-397....
* [12:50] Aric Linden: I think web-397 is a viewer auth prob
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Web-397 is definitely legit, but dunno if it matters after viewerauth goes away
* [12:50] Lillie Yifu: one of my tenants accidentally joined some 16M parcels that we were holding to sell to the arbor group, even though they were not connected once.
* [12:50] Squirrel Wood: only thing I notice so far is that the login dialog page takes up to 30 seconds to load...
* [12:51] Soft Linden: Ah no, I think this would hit pre-viewerauth as well
* [12:51] Gigs Taggart: there's a note that This duplicates VWR-3235.
* [12:51] Gigs Taggart: but they reopened it "so it would get more attention" :(
* [12:52] Gigs Taggart: I don't think we should reward that type of abuse with attention
* [12:52] Aric Linden: I think it might the time of the first VA release, i'd have to go back and look for sure, we did a login only web services release around then
* [12:52] Gigs Taggart: oh, nevermind
* [12:52] Soft Linden: WHy is VWR-3235 closed as misfiled?
* [12:53] Gigs Taggart: the reporter for 3235 has asked people to use 397 now :P
* [12:53] Aric Linden: I think we may want to ask simply if it's still an issue
* [12:53] Gigs Taggart: confusing
* [12:53] Soft Linden: Ah, guess they didn't know they could move it.
* [12:53] Soft Linden: I'll close the VWR one, mark it as a dupe of the web one.
* [12:53] Aric Linden: since it hasn't been updated for 6 weeks
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: thanks soft
* [12:54] Aric Linden: Let's ask if it's still an issue. It's been more than a couple of weeks
* [12:55] Aric Linden: shall we move on to vwr-2518?
* [12:55] Squirrel Wood: 2518 seems to be an issue with VBOs
* [12:56] Soft Linden: For WEB-397 - should ask if they're explicitly seeing the behavior still. As one pointed out, the http request is coming back with a no-cache directive, so if it is still ever caching, there's a bug in mozlib, not the web stuff. I can add details to the issue
* [12:56] Aric Linden: I wonder if they need to update their drivers?
* [12:57] Squirrel Wood: last commenter added a german system summary.... windows vista....
* [12:57] Squirrel Wood: 64bit one it seems
* [12:57] Aric Linden: yep and i wonder if the german instance of the drivers is fully up to date
* [12:57] Squirrel Wood: they usually are
* [12:58] Chilli Cao: ....note on WEB-397, since auth might not change that page's html cache directive, it might be worth it to add <META HTTP-EQUIV="EXPIRES" CONTENT="<current date GMT>"> meta directive
* [12:58] Aric Linden: actually, we've seen several instances where the localized drivers are a rev behind, squirrel
* [12:58] Squirrel Wood: hmm
* [12:58] Gigs Taggart: don't use the meta tag
* [12:58] Gigs Taggart: use the HTTP header
* [12:58] Squirrel Wood: I use mixed drivers on my system and so far the german drivers were always on par with the english ones
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: for the graphics card
* [12:59] Aric Linden: vista?
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: xp sp2 here
* [12:59] Squirrel Wood: but yes.. vista is a problem on its own
* [13:00] Aric Linden: yep, i'd expect that xp drivers are parallel, whereas vista drivers might not yet be so
* [13:00] Soft Linden: Chilli or Gigs - can you add a note to that effect to the issue itself?
* [13:00] Soft Linden: Then if it comes up again, the dev working on it is sure to see it.
* [13:00] Gigs Taggart: soft there is already a note in the issue to use the cache control headers
* [13:00] Aric Linden: regardless, I agree with Celierra
* [13:01] Aric Linden: We should close the isse and as Kimberly akroyd to open a new issue
* [13:01] Aric Linden: does that seem ok?
* [13:02] Alexa Linden: well thanks everyone for attending! See some of you on Wednesday :)