Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-02

07:01 	Office Orb  	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
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  	Oz Linden  	Hi everyone
  	Wolfpup  	hey Oz
07:02 	Oz Linden  	one moment.... need to update something in jira...
  	Wolfpup  	Boroondas looks like i might need to think about working on getting this lappy im on set up for linux dev work
07:03 	draconis.neurocam  	hello oz
  	Wolfpup  	all thought the fps right now sucks
  	Liisa Runo  	OH cancelled cube still in sandcastle ;)
07:05 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	What distribution, Wolfpup?
07:06 	Wolfpup  	Ubuntuflavored Broondas
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	then https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%%28Linux%%29 should get you going
  	Oz Linden  	There... sorry
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	np
07:07 	Oz Linden  	I'm a little behind this morning.... had to push some changes for the next beta candidate
  	  	I'll collect my cancelled cube after we're done here... that meeting should be ok this week
07:08 	  	So.... no new OPEN issues to triage this week, so the floor is open
07:09 	Twisted Laws  	as a submitter, what do i do after a review is marked Ship It ?
  	Youri Ashton  	oz, have you found out why the last few updates show installer issues? or someone within the lab?
  	Oz Linden  	Wait until the jira issue says that it's been integrated, and then you can get rid of your repo
  	draconis.neurocam  	youri, do you mean the lack of sound and kdu?
07:10 	Youri Ashton  	i said installer, nothing about sound :p
  	draconis.neurocam  	ah alright
  	Youri Ashton  	i keep having messages during installing about missing files
  	Oz Linden  	I have not caught up on all my mail yet, but I have not heard of any installer issue
  	Youri Ashton  	thats both on my laptop as pc
  	Oz Linden  	what platform?
07:11 	  	and what viewer versions?
  	Youri Ashton  	I even tried a complete clean install on both machines, and it still gave the same issues
  	  	windows vista for PC, and the laptop windows 7
07:12 	FERRET  	aha i found the party
  	Wolfpup  	Oz i just looked @ storm-1215 and your comment about the improper use of LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is actualy for fetching the Quciktime files for devs in OS env\
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1215
STORM-1215 No any sounds
07:13 	Youri Ashton  	it actually tells me nothing about missing files in that area
  	  	it misses viewer files
  	Oz Linden  	put a comment on the associated code review please, Wolfpup
07:14 	Youri Ashton  	its really annoying when you have to keep clicking ignore for all missing files :S
  	Oz Linden  	Youri, I have not seen any reports... please check recent jiras and if you don't find your problem, file a new one
  	Youri Ashton  	i didnt have time to add a jira yet, RL stuff
  	Oz Linden  	Please be as specific as possible about what the errors are and all version info
  	Youri Ashton  	ill do a full repro if i can then
07:15 	Oz Linden  	Certainly our QA has not seen those problems....
  	Youri Ashton  	just hope the installer doesnt get picky
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	picky about what?
  	Youri Ashton  	about when to show these problems or not
  	  	seen that happen more often
07:16 	Twisted Laws  	could be the redistributable files missing which i think someone has a patch in for
  	Youri Ashton  	not sure, it reffered to at least a couple of viewer files directly
  	  	vital ones
07:17 	  	got 2 more issues i found
07:18 	Oz Linden  	?
  	Youri Ashton  	1 is after a crash (and trust me it happens often) i see "slplugin" in the task manager staying enabled.
  	  	meaning it does crash the viewer, but not slplugin
07:19 	Oz Linden  	what version of the viewer are you running?
  	Youri Ashton  	lag adding since it shows up sometimes with 10 times at a time
  	  	latest... hmm.. lemme get it
  	  	Second Life 2.6.3 (227447) Apr 22 2011 13:46:11 (Second Life Release)
07:20 	  	last problem, but i think that is more in general, voice keeps going away or not evne load at all. specially for my laptop, but often for my pc as well
07:21 	  	downloaded the latest viewer not that long ago, last week or so
  	Oz Linden  	Well, all I can suggest is that you document those carefully in issues
07:22 	Youri Ashton  	only thing i can do in coming weeks is report it in OH's, im helping a friend with his wedding
  	  	RL wedding
07:23 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	next topic?
  	Oz Linden  	?
07:24 	  	Expect many changes coming to viewer-development this week....
  	Youri Ashton  	like? hints?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Hints?
07:25 	Oz Linden  	the plan is to merge the mesh branch. The mesh features won't be enabled yet (they need support from the grid)
  	FERRET  	a working kdu maybe?
  	Youri Ashton  	well its a start indeed :p
  	  	know when it may be enabled?
  	Oz Linden  	but lots of other rendering improvements and some other fixes will b
  	  	no, I don't know
07:26 	Youri Ashton  	darned
  	Oz Linden  	and if I did I wouldn't tell you (but I really don't)
  	Wolfpup  	wekk that means work needs to be started on getting a 3p-convexdecomp working then
07:27 	Oz Linden  	yes, getting an open lib for that would be good, but even if you don't have it, the only thing that you won't be able to do is upload a new mesh
07:28 	Wolfpup  	Oz i havetried to builf the mesh viewer and it will NOT build in an OS dev env as there are now missing functions
  	Youri Ashton  	well having a taste of it would be a good start at least, i guess
  	  	better then nothing
07:29 	  	could you tell to what mesh can be applied? Just avitar skin? or also prims?
  	Oz Linden  	There are some dependencies that will need to be adjusted, I think, Wolfpup, including replacing the package for the llconvexdecomp library
07:30 	draconis.neurocam  	it can be an attachment that wraps to the avatar skeleton, or just an object in world youri
  	Oz Linden  	I'm not really the right person to ask about mesh features, but yes, both mesh for avatars and other objects is included
  	Youri Ashton  	ok, sounds great :)
  	  	good leap forward
  	Wolfpup  	there also new functions in llmesh that cause the compile to fail when building the secondlife-bin project
07:31 	  	Youri new max prim sizes are comeing with mesh as well
07:32 	Youri Ashton  	new prim limit?
  	  	hmm... liek what size?
  	Oz Linden  	I believe that there's a new integrated repo that Merov created last week where they are sorting out merge issues.... I'm not yet caught up....
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	64m, IIRC
  	Wolfpup  	so we can say soline to all megas below 64m
  	Youri Ashton  	64m? omg, that would cause a lot of prims to drop from my work ^_^
  	  	and i managed to kill about 60%% already
  	Oz Linden  	Right. I don't know when that new limit will take effect...
07:33 	  	... it too requires server side support.
  	FERRET  	will mesh be as messy as when sculpties were introduced?
  	Oz Linden  	I believe that's independent of mesh itself, but it's in the same set of changes and I don't know if they will be deployed separately or together
  	draconis.neurocam  	lestat, i think it will be much cleaner
  	Youri Ashton  	think that prim size limit is fixed in no time oz, shouldnt take to much problems to dig trough
07:34 	Oz Linden  	Well, I was not here when sculpties were introduced... how messy was it?
  	draconis.neurocam  	when it first launched the features that actually made it where it is today didnt exist
  	Youri Ashton  	cant really compair sculpties to changing the prim size limit :p
  	draconis.neurocam  	and had to be tacked on afterward
  	FERRET  	very...even snowglobe 1.4 still couldnt get them right
07:35 	Wolfpup  	Oz i know someone @ LL made a new llconvexdecomp repository to show the access for havoc for those that start an OS project based off of the stub for making an OS lib for it
  	draconis.neurocam  	such as flipping, inverting, and lossless compression
  	Youri Ashton  	older sculpties often deform when your camera gets further away as well, some new ones still do
07:36 	draconis.neurocam  	youri, that is dependant on how they were made
07:37 	Wolfpup  	i think the best way to upload a sculpty now is to use either png or tga not jpeg
  	Youri Ashton  	i know, but still they do show it. some setting change fixed it temperarily, but after a crash or relog you have to do with default settings again
  	  	look at that texture oz
  	  	it tells how it can be fixed
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	The history of LOD was that it was changed/made to where lowest was 1.0 and hightes was 1.25 when relity should have been 3 for highest graphics setting. I still get auto-handed NC about setting the LOD to fix skupties at shops.
  	Youri Ashton  	well... temp at least...
07:39 	Oz Linden  	My understanding is that mesh will be less sensitive to that sort of problem
  	Youri Ashton  	think i sended to everyone now
  	Twisted Laws  	that stub is https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecomposition/overview
  	Oz Linden  	yes, that's the stub
  	draconis.neurocam  	yes mesh will have a definable lod, or none at all, at the cost of prim equality
07:40 	Youri Ashton  	still annoying as hell
07:41 	draconis.neurocam  	changing rendervolumelodfactor above 4 gives no noticable effects i thought, and actually becomes detrimental
  	Youri Ashton  	this same type of problem can be there for mesh
  	Wolfpup  	the stub is actualy here > https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/llconvexdecompositionstub/overview
  	Oz Linden  	I've been thinking about the problem of open devs needing to add or replace locally built packages
  	draconis.neurocam  	any solutions oz?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Is some consistence between different LOD levels enforced, or could one upload a mesh that'll look completely different from different distances?
  	Oz Linden  	I'd like to find a good solution for making that easier
  	Wolfpup  	Oz the file:/// method works for me just fine
07:42 	Youri Ashton  	however it may be, it needs to be solved. not everyone knows this solution
  	Oz Linden  	yes, but you need to manually do it every time you check out a new repo
  	draconis.neurocam  	boroondas, you have control over that, and yes i have seen meshes that look drastically different at distance
  	Oz Linden  	and there are an increasing number of packages for which it's needed
  	Thickbrick Sleaford 	Boroondas, I think enforcing that is a pretty hard problem to solve (and also not needed.)
07:43 	draconis.neurocam  	i agree with thickbrick
  	Youri Ashton  	ill send you a texture that should cause a problem like this oz
  	Oz Linden  	I don't really have a solution I'm happy with, yet....
  	Wolfpup  	the only one i need it for is fmod right now eveything else i use comes from LL
  	Youri Ashton  	that one SHOULD show the problem
07:44 	Oz Linden  	right, but you'll need the convexdecomp stub soon, and probably others over time
  	Youri Ashton  	its full perm, feel free to send it to the right team
  	Oz Linden  	thank you, Youri
  	Youri Ashton  	just make sure you do not give it to the wrong people, its boughed :p
07:46 	Oz Linden  	When you replace a package, do you use the autobuild command to modify the config, or do you just edit the xml file? and do you make a copy, or use the autobuild.xml directly?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Why can't we put a prebuilt llconvexdecomp stub package on the server to be fetched by autobuild? This is LL code, so there should be no problems distributing binaries.
  	Youri Ashton  	sorry, not home in sculpts, really wouldnt know much about it
07:47 	  	only way i know how to use them, is by the build menu
  	Wolfpup  	Oz i mod the xml directly then that way the settings and packages are handled automaticaly
  	Oz Linden  	We could do that, Boroondas, but you'd still need to change the config file to use the stub instead of the real lib
  	  	That's a good idea, though.... I'll follow up on that
07:48 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	why that? we have different configurations of open source builds, so those could reference the stub until a replacement is there.
  	Wolfpup  	there is one Boroondas
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	(and once the replacement is there, we should of course switch the config to that.)
07:49 	Wolfpup  	at lease befor autobuild merged in
  	Oz Linden  	because the 'installables' section of the autobuild.xml doesn't know or care what configuration you're building... it just tries to install all dependencies, so we can't set it up to load the real lib or the stub depending on what you can use
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	soo .... that should probably be changed, then
07:50 	Oz Linden  	yeah.... something.....
  	  	not sure what the right answer is yet
  	Wolfpup  	Oz actualy you can have both there as the normal one is propiteary and the sub is not so for OS devs it would download
07:51 	Oz Linden  	but at present, I think both would unpack into the same directory
  	  	which would break builds for Lindens
07:52 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	well, maybe packages should have some notion of blocking each other
  	  	those with conflicting files could then not be installed at the same time
  	Oz Linden  	we'd still need a way to select them
  	Wolfpup  	true you could have the build env do an 'override
07:53 	Thickbrick Sleaford 	it sounds like the solution is for build configs to be able to inject dependencies, to you can have a "proprietary" meta package and an "opensource" meta package.
  	Oz Linden  	Ideally, I'd like to be able to conditionalize a package based on both platform and configuration
  	  	that's a thought, Thickbrick
  	Wolfpup  	ie if on LL buold farms then use propertiarey else use 3p
07:54 	Oz Linden  	right now, autobuild does not do either recursive dependency checking or version checking....
  	Wolfpup  	and that cold be put in as part of the autobuild system its self
  	Oz Linden  	which would help somewhat for those
07:55 	  	but you'd still need a conditional package mechanism....
  	Wolfpup  	for example if you use the ReleaseOS setting then use all 3p libs
  	Oz Linden  	.... or, we might be able to make do with a 'try this, else use that' system.
07:56 	Wolfpup  	and if building normal Release then use internals
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	well, with dependency resolution and conditional dependencies we'd be set up much better for whatever might pop up in the future
  	Oz Linden  	I'm not sure what the answer is, only that it's a problem that will get more annoying over time
07:57 	draconis.neurocam  	i would think something hierarchical would work best, so if you select something farther down, it would use something else
  	Oz Linden  	dependency resolution is something that I suspect LL will decide it needs and do eventually (no guess when that might be), but a conditional mechanism is probably something we'll have to build here in the opendev world.
07:58 	  	I'll create an OPEN issue to describe the problem space, and we can begin thinking about solutions
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	ok
07:59 	Oz Linden  	and that you'll have to limber up your python coding muscles :-)
08:00 	Office Orb  	Your timer has expired!
  	Wolfpup  	< dose not even want to venture into python
  	Youri Ashton  	aight, thank you for the OH oz
  	draconis.neurocam  	python isnt hard
  	Youri Ashton  	im off for now!
  	draconis.neurocam  	yes, thank you oz, take care
  	Youri Ashton  	laters all!
  	Thickbrick Sleaford 	WolfPup, you should. Python is fun!
  	Oz Linden  	see you all next time...
08:01 	Wolfpup  	tc oz
  	Twisted Laws  	bye
  	Office Orb  	End transcription