Mesh/Archive/2012-05-14

==Agenda==
# Any news on Bake Fail and the Runway Project Viewer? Nalates Urriah 13:36, 10 May 2012 (PDT)
# What's the latest on attachment point offsetting recognition in the uploader? Tiberious Neruda
# What high priority changes are nearing completion that you can talk about? Draconis Neurocam 12:24, 14 May 2012 (PDT)
# What, if anything is the Lab actively doing to support the work of 3rd Party Tool solutions like Avastar for Blender, to help insure compatibility? --Valiant Westland
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Ashiri Sands (ashiri.sands)
*draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam)
*Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier)
*Motor Loon (motor.loon)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Sandry Logan (sandry.logan)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)
*Tiberious Neruda (tiberious.neruda)
*Valiant Westland (valiant.westland)
*Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday May 14, 2012==
[12:04]	Nyx Linden 	greetings all
[12:04]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello Nyx.
[12:05]	Tiberious Neruda 	...sculpt. Abuse. Hell
[12:05]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Hiya Nyx
[12:05]	Tiberious Neruda 	oops
[12:05]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Heh.
[12:05]	Nyx Linden 	agenda is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:05]	Tiberious Neruda 	soory, Nyx
[12:05]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Y'know, alphas are the worst. :p
[12:05]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	<- has 32GB of ram
[12:05]	Tiberious Neruda 	the dude wore, and I shit you not... a hair that was -255- sculpted spikes
[12:05]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	I'll have 16GiB tomorrow.
[12:05]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	my 2 SSDs shiped today
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	shall we get started?
[12:06]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i suppose „ã°
[12:06]	Tiberious Neruda 	I ran the math on that, and at highest LOD, his HEAD used over half a MILLION polygons
[12:06]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	255 spikes, great googly moogly
[12:06]	Nyx Linden 	topic 1: "Any news on Bake Fail and the Runway Project Viewer? Nalates Urriah 13:36, 10 May 2012 (PDT)"
[12:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Ready to go Nyx
[12:07]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	runway - refering to https://bitbucket.org/VirLinden/runway
[12:07]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	what is Bake Fall viewer? I can't find it.
[12:07]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	yep
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	no news to report currently, we have a lot of data on why avatars fail to bake, and a few possibilitieis to how to approach it
[12:08]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Bake Fail is a condition, not a viewer, yet
[12:08]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	thats a start „ã°
[12:08]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	So... your think you have the causes pretty well nailed down?
[12:09]	Nyx Linden 	there are many of them :)
[12:09]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	^
[12:09]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	All roads lead to bake-fail.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	so we have a few different proposals, but nothing formal to present here just yet. We'll keep you guys up to date :)
[12:11]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	thx „ã°
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	thx
[12:11]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "What's the latest on attachment point offsetting recognition in the uploader? Tiberious Neruda"
[12:11]	Motor Loon 	whats that for?
[12:12]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) 	.anim file support was put in the development viewer a while ago
[12:13]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I thought it was in the main viewer now...
[12:13]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) 	could be
[12:13]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) 	i don't use the main viewer
[12:13]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	me niether
[12:13]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	so you can properly position things.
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	Its honestly not something I've been tracking personally. anyone have any more detail on this?
[12:13]	Tiberious Neruda 	Motor, attachment points can be used in several ways: be defined so objects will attach to where you tell them to by default, or, with hacked animations, as impromptu extra bones
[12:14]	Motor Loon 	but this is relating to a mesh upload?
[12:14]	Rusalka Writer 	"Impromptu extra bones..."
[12:14]	Rusalka Writer 	My mind, it is filthy.
[12:14]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Save on viagra
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	and this is asking for an offset of the attachment position relative to the joint its attached to?
[12:15]	Rusalka Writer 	Like the hips?
[12:15]	Tiberious Neruda 	It's asking about progress on something that's already been stated as a good thing to have
[12:15]	Tiberious Neruda 	I know it was discussed during beta
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	there are many more good things to have than we have time to develop unfortunately
[12:17]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	May be we should work on a longer day?
[12:17]	Tiberious Neruda 	and Rusalka, I doubt that would be too much of an issue, as none of the attachment points are parented to each other, so you wouldn't have a chain available to you
[12:18]	Rusalka Writer 	Groovy.
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	I think the best example is that kinda alien-looking av with a jaw rigged to the Mouth attachment point
[12:18]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	80 hour weeks fo Lindens
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	work on a longer day or nyx cloning devices might be a good idea :)
[12:19]	Tiberious Neruda 	the ability is there now, it's just requiring MUCH more work than people are able to feasibly put in, as not only do you have to have a hacked animation to rotate the point, but also one to position it
[12:19]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Now that coning thing is scary.
[12:20]	Motor Loon 	We'll just order more Nyx's from the factory
[12:20]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	clonging^
[12:20]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Ummmmm I think they broke the mold.
[12:20]	Nyx Linden 	/me requires a network of robotic clones to do my bidding for me
[12:20]	Tiberious Neruda 	if attachment point offsetting is recognized by the uploader, then all you'd need is the animation to rotate it
[12:21]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	:)
[12:21]	Nyx Linden 	as far as I'm aware, that isn't a high priority change for us. If any opensource devs want to take a look at it, we can probably review it
[12:21]	Motor Loon 	how will the uploader get that information Tib?
[12:21]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Nyx wants minions
[12:21]	Tiberious Neruda 	likely the same way it would get its information for joint offsetting
[12:22]	Motor Loon 	but we're not talking about rigged stuff are we?
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	actually, we are
[12:22]	Motor Loon 	ah
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	okay...
[12:22]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Doesn't an attachemnt in inventory have attached to it offsets and rotations from it's attachment point?
[12:23]	Nyx Linden 	it does, for non-rigged attachments
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	yes, but that's not rotating the attachment point itself
[12:24]	Nyx Linden 	wait you want to rotate the attachment point and everything attached to it, not just one attachment?
[12:25]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Kind of a built in animation?
[12:25]	Tiberious Neruda 	correct. Essentially, treating it like it's a joint
[12:25]	Tiberious Neruda 	it's already doable now
[12:25]	Nyx Linden 	sounds like you want to wrap up a skeletal animation inside of a rigged attachment?
[12:25]	Tiberious Neruda 	it requires a hacked animation, though
[12:25]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	But this is to make the object force the skeleton right?
[12:26]	Nyx Linden 	Yeah this is not a high priority for us.
[12:26]	Tiberious Neruda 	okay... let me try to explain better
[12:27]	Valiant Westland 	Q) What, if anything Is the Lab actively doing to support the work of 3rd Party Tool solutions like Avastar for Blender, to help insure compatibility?
[12:27]	Tiberious Neruda 	the attachment point is what (at least I'd hope) defines the 'zero location' for any given non-rigged object you wear
[12:28]	draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam) 	related to attachment points, the positions for the arms and legs are not symetrical
[12:29]	Tiberious Neruda 	what I'm asking for is, along with the ability to define the joint locations, as we have now, to ALSO define the attachment point locations
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	yep, can see the value, but don't currently have the resources to focus on it
[12:29]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	umm joint location is the attachemnt point
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	a couple more topics popping up, mind if we move on?
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda 	okay
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "What high priority changes are nearing completion that you can talk about? Draconis Neurocam 12:24, 14 May 2012 (PDT)"
[12:30]	Ashiri Sands 	This would be to help with micro/macro sized avs?
[12:30]	Tiberious Neruda 	but the side effect of that is ALSO allowing those points to act likes extra joints via hacked animation
[12:31]	Tiberious Neruda 	anyway, dropping it for now. If you wanna hear more, I'll wait 'til after the meeting
[12:31]	Motor Loon 	We got the mesh accounting changes comming soon (when PF hits full grid)
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	we do have a few simple fixes for some pipeline work we've been doing in the background, but we're working on getting it tested before merging it down
[12:31]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	Mostly improving speed/reliability of avatar and object rezzing
[12:32]	Rusalka Writer 	Killing non-mesh viewers?
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	should improve a couple caching bugs, and a couple of specific loading issues, but overall architecture/structure remains the same
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	nothing that will fundamentally break old viewers, just benefits to the people who update
[12:33]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Eventually people are going to have to get machines with SSE instructions.
[12:33]	Motor Loon 	damn... guess I'll have to scrap my 386 then
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	A sad reflection.
[12:34]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	yep...
[12:35]	Motor Loon 	..and it runs both PONG and TETRIS sooo well too
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	next topic (from chat) "What, if anything Is the Lab actively doing to support the work of 3rd Party Tool solutions like Avastar for Blender, to help insure compatibility?"
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	we try to keep our documentation up to date and offer forums of feedback for getting more technical details out such as this usergroup :)
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	if any developers of 3rd party tools runs into problems with incompatibility, we're more than happy to discuss any difficulties they are having
[12:37]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	I am thinking it is more of LL as a Stakeholder with Blender and Domino and Gaia working with Blender to make it as compatible as possible with SL...
[12:40]	Nyx Linden 	we'd definitely like to work with people who are working on such tools to help them when they have questions or troubles, but we have more than our own share of internal projects to focus on as well
[12:41]	Valiant Westland 	Thannks Nyx
[12:41]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Speaking of... who had the arch with separated physics model and did you get to figure out of that was an oddity or a reliable part of mesh upload?
[12:41]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I am happy to hear it, Nyx.
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	ah yes, the mystery of the arch was solved!
[12:41]	Nyx Linden 	one copy had decomposed physics while the other did not
[12:41]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Yay... I think
[12:42]	Nyx Linden 	uploading as separate pieces for visual/physics representations was not the part that changed the cost so significantly
[12:42]	Motor Loon 	yeah
[12:42]	Motor Loon 	did sound odd
[12:43]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	No magic bullet but it is good to understand.
[12:43]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	thx
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	just goes to show that decomposing your physics shapes is usually a good idea though :)
[12:45]	Ashiri Sands 	manually decomposing in the editor?
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	the decomposition tool provided in our uploader
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	also: any other topics for today? we have a bit of extra time
[12:46]	Motor Loon 	I tend to get a higher PE after using it though... when I used custom physics shapes
[12:47]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	The new Blender 2.63 has some nice tools for simplifing
[12:47]	Nyx Linden 	you can always decompose a custom physics shape, but if your custom physics shape is already low-poly enough it can be sufficient
[12:47]	Motor Loon 	<-- does low poly ¬∞Õú¬∞
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	:)
[12:48]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	is that polyunsaturated? snickers
[12:49]	Valiant Westland 	Butter that than the alternative...
[12:49]	Nyx Linden 	alright, well in absence of more topics, we'll wrap up early for today
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	thanks for coming out everyone!
[12:50]	Valiant Westland 	Thnx
[12:50]	Motor Loon 	Always a pleasure
[12:50]	Hope of Sardar (hope.dreier) 	Tnank you for the meeting most informative
[12:50]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx Nyx
[12:50]	Ashiri Sands 	ty Nyx
[12:50]	Sandry Logan 	thank you Nyx
[12:50]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	Farewell!
[12:50]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx Vir
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	see everyone next week!
[12:50]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	thx for your updates, nyx and vir
[12:50]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you Nyx.
[12:51]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	See you next week!
[12:51]	Second Life 	Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Borrowdale/81/211/32
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