Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-11-17

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on November 17th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Welcome to the Server Beta User Group
=== Updates ===
* A calm week.
** NCW windows.
** Maintennance periods Friday and Monday.
** Next week NO USERGROUP MEETING because of the Thanksgiving Holiday.
* "Second Life Server Channel"
** This is "havok" update project from Magnum
*** http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2011/11/16/post1479/
*** simply a simulator restart. nothing more.
** http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.11.09.244706
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This is the same "Threaded Region Crossings" project.
** This project contains the infrastructure to support future work into creating threaded region cross for agents. This uses the new threaded RPC/thread state machine mechanism.
* http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.11.15.245109
* Carmilla Linden is here to talk about the changes and the plan for upgrading region crossings.
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This is the same "maint-server" project.
* Bug Fixes
** 	Temp on Rezzed objects get queued 
** 	Driving a vehicle over into a full region gives strange error message: You can't enter this region because the sebehavior is full 
** 	For group notices groupID is being sent in the AgentID field 
** 	llMinEventDelay Bug 
** 	Simulator fails to load notecard asset (Intan won't read config card)
* New Bug Fixes
** Loops throttled by a short sleep run twice per frame on Letigre
** Bug in control Event
** http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.11.14.245108
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is the "People API mutelist" project.
** Changed simulator behavior to send create/delete events in the mute-list to the People API.
** Feature is disabled until full release.
** http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.11.11.245070
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* Inventory Beta Test.
** Bugs were fixed.
** Have you checked it out yet?
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/InventoryBetaTest
* new maint-server : drtsim-111
** Fix for "llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler."
** Sandbox Wanderton has this code.
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for November 17th, 2011:
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: Ladies and Gentlemen, prims and scripts
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: greetins
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: welcome to the server bet ausers group
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: greetings:)
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: how is everyone doing this week?
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: Great :D
* [15:02] Homeless: very good
* [15:03] Homeless: Tomorrow is the first anniversary of user names going live. Boy does time fly
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I think we can wait a minute and let some stragglers show up
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: u want to make us feel even better:)
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: oh wow
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: time does fly
* [15:03] Lares Carter: doing okay, another busy week
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: agenda link btw
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: time flies like an arrow
* [15:03] Homeless: I've homeless for a year now :D
* [15:03] Homeless: *I've been
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: fruit flies like a banana
* [15:04] Gooden Uggla: 100 yeards then hits the ground?
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: when u get a home will u change your name?
* [15:04] Carmilla Linden: hmm, what sort of insecticide do i need to keep away time flies?
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:04] Homeless: I can't change my username
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: ther eis a pun there somewhere
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: coyot?
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: I think a sonic screwdriver works
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: Oskar: at least two
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: this is maestro's second week away
* [15:05] Homeless: I'll never have a home... my main account stole my 512 sq meter allowance
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: today he is going to see a Cirque du Solei show
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: IRL
* [15:05] Gooden Uggla: quick, chan ge the locks
* [15:05] arton Rotaru: lucky maestro
* [15:05] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden would prefer Ban du Solei
* [15:05] Homeless: No Linden Home for me... *sniff*
* [15:06] Gooden Uggla: coyot loves the saint tropez tan...
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: the Seattle office had the INCREDIBLY awesome experience of seeing Cirque du Solei's Michale Jackson tribute last Thursday night
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: at least your main has one
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: T_T
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: exactly gooden!
* [15:06] Oskar LindenOskar Linden slept through the first half
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: nice catch!
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: alright we can get this started
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: this week was a clam week
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: u mean it a was a trip organized by the company?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: regards to release that is
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: it was Rex
* [15:06] Homeless: clam bake?
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: you can come to my place, we have some spare saint tropez laying arou nd here somewhere...
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: s/clam/calm/
* [15:07] Rex Cronon: nice:)
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we've had a few rough weeks so a calm one is nice
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: as Seattle's Ivar said "Keep Clam"
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: anyways
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: the rolls went well this week
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: the grid did not fight us
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: speaking of
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we have these thigns called NCW No Change Windows
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: I hate those
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: periods of time where we will not modify live code
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: But only because I love releases
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: without vp signoff
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we have one for all of next week because of the holidays
* [15:09] Nalates Urriah: signoff or window?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: window
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: an NCW
* [15:09] Nalates Urriah: :p
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: so that means no rolling restarts or new code next week
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: that also means going an extra week without refreshing restarts
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: which means more regions acting up and a support headache
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: um, hold that
* [15:09] Rex Cronon: btw what caused yesterdays login problems?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: erp
* [15:10] Oskar LindenOskar Linden holds that
* [15:10] Rex Cronon: i mean tuesdays
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: not sure Rex
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: so, there will be a rolling restart tomorrow AM and Wednesday AM
* [15:10] Homeless: Have a rolling re-start without any new code?
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: exactly
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: I was getting to that Coyot
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: ah
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: carry on, dir
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: sir
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: we blogged that somewhere I thought
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: can't find it now
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: this link right Coyot?
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: http://status.secondlifegrid.net/2011/11/16/post1479/
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: http://status.secondlifegrid.net/
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: yeah
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: but that says tomorrow and Mondaynot Wednesday
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: urk
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: oh geez, maintenence on a friday...
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: basically what that says is we are going to restart simulators but not update code
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: that's all it is
* [15:12] Coyot Linden: right
* [15:12] Coyot Linden: this is very low risk and I will get the blog fixed.
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: thanks coyot
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: everyone wear your helmets this weekend!
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: since so many are out this week and we're not doing regular rolling restarts we want to lessen the support load
* [15:12] Rex Cronon: i don't think we need helmets since there is no code change
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: so we're restarting simulators
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: simple as that
* [15:13] Techwolf Lupindo: So, the rolling restarts without upgrades is to hide the performace proplems after being up for a week?
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: exactly
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: u do it to monitor what happens on sim restart?
* [15:13] Gooden Uggla: lol awesome
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: while we are talking about next week I will wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving now
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: there is no UserGroup next Thursday
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: likewise oskar:)
* [15:14] Nalates Urriah: thx and may you too be given a big bird
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: because I will be in my backyard putting fire to a massive dead bird
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: if u use hot oil to dunk the turkey in, u should be careful
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: I give Oskar the bird all the time. :P
* [15:15] Homeless: road kill?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: I hope you all know I am thankful for your help and perseverence making SL a better place
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: <3
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: and moving right along :-)
* [15:15] Nalates Urriah: :)
* [15:15] Gooden Uggla: :)
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: Second Life Server got the havok updates
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: but we knew those wer ecoming
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel last week got some new threaded region crossing code stuff
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: I invited a special guest today
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: Carmilla Linden
* [15:16] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden waves at Carmilla
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: to talk about those changes
* [15:16] Nalates Urriah: \o/
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: Carmilla give a quick introduction please
* [15:16] Carmilla Linden: okay
* [15:17] Carmilla Linden: the existing region crossing code is a horrible piece of crap
* [15:17] Rex Cronon: greetings carmilla
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: suroris^^
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: oops surprise*
* [15:17] Nalates Urriah: HoPC is a tech term I know
* [15:17] Carmilla Linden: it blocks the whole sim while a cross is in progress, which includes such operations as serializing the agent or object crossing out to disk and then compressing it, which even in the average case takes a large multiple of the normal sim frame time
* [15:17] Nalates Urriah: HpoC^
* [15:18] Rex Cronon: it blocks? no wonder of the perfomance
* [15:18] Carmilla Linden: threaded region cross is an attempt to solve that by moving the region cross jobs into a background thread using a state machine abstraction, where i can mark individual states as non-threadable to force them to run in the main thread when i need to touch shared data structures
* [15:18] Carmilla Linden: but leave the expensive operations in the threadable states
* [15:19] arton Rotaru: sounds good
* [15:19] Carmilla Linden: what's going out this time is phase 1 of threaded region cross, which uses te new infrastructure, but only with one non-threadable state, so it shouldn't change timing much yet
* [15:19] Rex Cronon: what happens if u have multipple sim crossings of heavily loaded avatars?
* [15:19] Carmilla Linden: but will get the state machine code tested while i work on the refactoring necessary for phase 2
* [15:20] Carmilla Linden: well, this only stops it from blocking the whole region
* [15:20] Carmilla Linden: if your avatar is large, it will be blocked at the border for as long as it takes to send it over
* [15:20] Techwolf Lupindo: Was the new code in place on the restricted regines for primioums of that new SL game?
* [15:20] Fancy Greeter: Blake Linden has arrived!
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: no TL
* [15:20] Rex Cronon: what game?
* [15:20] Nalates Urriah: IS this blocking the departs region and arriving region?
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: this new code is only in BlueSteel right now
* [15:21] Carmilla Linden: i have some ideas on how to fix that for later on, involving a differential protocol where sims send updates on changes to objects to their neighbors, and then can do an atomic handoff when they're properly synchronized
* [15:21] Techwolf Lupindo: The crossing on thsot regines was very smooth and some was specuating it was a mega regine or updated code.
* [15:21] Carmilla Linden: but that's still fairly speculative
* [15:21] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
* [15:21] Rex Cronon: afk
* [15:21] Carmilla Linden: the blocking currently affects both the sending an dreceiving side
* [15:21] Nalates Urriah: Thx
* [15:22] Carmilla Linden: i also built a threaded RPC server mechanism for the receiving side, and will be working on that too
* [15:23] Techwolf Lupindo: All of this will be good and welcome news to the sailing communites.. Regine crossing got horriable the past few months.
* [15:23] Carmilla Linden: well, this won't help sailing *yet*
* [15:23] Carmilla Linden: because the current code is still broken handling seated agents with region cross
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: it's only avatars?
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: :(
* [15:23] Carmilla Linden: that's for a future phase of the region cross project that would have to unify agent and object region crossings
* [15:24] Carmilla Linden: which are currently completely separate code paths
* [15:24] Carmilla Linden: and that raises complications when there are multiple seated agents on one object
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: but that's what we need
* [15:24] Oskar LindenOskar Linden encourages the use of making your avatar into a boat itself
* [15:24] Leonel Iceghost: could you try to send first scripts that handle control events so vehicles react faster after crossing, and the load the rest?
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: vehicle crossing
* [15:24] Leonel Iceghost: an then*
* [15:24] Leonel Iceghost: and then* :P
* [15:24] Carmilla Linden: because right now agent region cross can't proceed until the viewer says that agent has a circuit on the neighboring region
* [15:24] Flip Idlemind: When you cross regions on an object, doesn't it technically un-seat you, move you and the object separately, and then re-seat you?
* [15:25] Carmilla Linden: yeah, that's what it does
* [15:25] Carmilla Linden: that needs to change for it not to suck
* [15:25] Carmilla Linden: well, right now sending scripts or anything else across the border first is a non-starter because there's no proper cross-border physics
* [15:26] Carmilla Linden: objects have to be handed off at the same time they're physically at the border
* [15:26] Carmilla Linden: and collision detection between objects on opposite sides will not work correctly
* [15:27] Homeless: Is there a way to alert a region next door when you get, say 10 meters close?
* [15:27] Homeless: and it can start getting ready?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: 10 meters doesn't mean you are going to cross
* [15:27] Homeless: true
* [15:27] Carmilla Linden: well, there's a solution, but it's complicated and needs the differential region cross/atomic handoffs to work
* [15:28] Carmilla Linden: which is to do a proper cross-border physics and exchange collision data between regions
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: want that ^^
* [15:28] Carmilla Linden: then do the actual handoff wheen the object is sufficiently far into the neighboring region that the region it *was* on desyncs from its physics
* [15:28] Carmilla Linden: which also potentially reduces the number of handoffs that have to happen for objects crossing corners
* [15:29] Techwolf Lupindo: Camilla, if you manged to get all of that new code that addresses all the issue of crossing next year, you will be everyone Linden Hero that year.
* [15:29] Carmilla Linden: in that case, yes, the neighbors would be signalled to sync to the object as it approached the border
* [15:30] Carmilla Linden: cross-border physics could also let me generalize the concept of 'border'
* [15:30] Carmilla Linden: which means we could do things like nontrivial topology or wormholes
* [15:30] Nalates Urriah: o.o
* [15:30] Techwolf Lupindo: Fully working stargates.
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: back
* [15:30] Carmilla Linden: and the necessary mechanism to sync between regions could also include the viewer as a passive participant, so the viewer would be able to predict the physics to some extent
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: wormholes? that means we can also travel in time:)
* [15:31] Flip Idlemind: Like, objects could be partially in 2 regions at once, and the two regions wouldn't necessarily have to be adjacent?
* [15:31] Carmilla Linden: unfortunately no
* [15:31] Carmilla Linden: you can't do proper relativity in any multiuser simulation because there's no upper bound you can set on the ratio at which different users experience time
* [15:32] Carmilla Linden: so you might need to make some users slow down by an arbitrarily large factor to have enough information about everyone else's actions
* [15:32] Carmilla Linden: yes, something like that
* [15:32] Flip Idlemind: Coolio
* [15:32] Carmilla Linden: the object would only be in one region at a time as far as the LLTask is concerned
* [15:32] Carmilla Linden: but it could physically extend across a border and the physics would behave correctly
* [15:32] Flip Idlemind: Oh, yeah, it would only "be" in 1 region, but it could have, I guess, a physical presence in two
* [15:33] Carmilla Linden: yeah
* [15:33] Carmilla Linden: anyway, the cross-border physics stuff is till somewhat far off and speculative
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:34] Carmilla Linden: it needs the differential region crossing with atomic handoffs as a prerequisite, i think
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: any final questions for Carmilla?
* [15:34] arton Rotaru: however, I think it has to be done. the sooner the better
* [15:34] Coyot Linden: What is the average wingspeed...
* [15:34] Homeless: I'm not too sure I understand what atomic means in this context
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: *BOOM*
* [15:35] Oskar LindenOskar Linden muzzles coyot
* [15:35] Carmilla Linden: meaning that to everything outside the region crossing code, the handoff would look instantaneous
* [15:35] Homeless: ok I got it now. thx
* [15:35] Rex Cronon: if u have mutliple persons sitting on the same vehicle, and if one of them can't be traffered,does that mean the others will have to wait for that one person?
* [15:35] Carmilla Linden: the sim would start the transer based on some criterion like proxmity to the border, and whenever the object got changed, it'd send the neighbor an update
* [15:35] Flip Idlemind: I love how much this meeting feels like a quantum mechanics lesson
* [15:35] Rex Cronon: transffered*
* [15:36] Carmilla Linden: yeah, that's one of the issues is what happens when there are multiple seated agents and one fails to establish a circuit to the neighboring region
* [15:36] Gooden Uggla: yes, i have a question, will more work on the serialize/deserialize sim freezes take place?
* [15:36] Carmilla Linden: right now that blocks an agent region cross
* [15:36] Gooden Uggla: the freezes are a b it worse lately...
* [15:36] Carmilla Linden: there won't be any more sim freezes fairly soon
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: it's probably tied to the kernel upgrades for which we have a new one coming
* [15:36] Carmilla Linden: once the initial threaded region cross work is done, it'll just block the one agent
* [15:36] Leonel Iceghost: is anything else being sent other than physics info to the viewers when crossing?
* [15:37] Carmilla Linden: yeah, the entire serialized agent, which can be arbitrarily large
* [15:37] Gooden Uggla: yes flip, how much multiuser relativity can you put in a box with nerve gas and a cat?
* [15:37] Pauline Darkfury: What sort of timescale have you got for the new kernel? Is that expected to fix the odd performance issues seen on some heavier regions?
* [15:37] Carmilla Linden: i had to completely redesign the LLTaskInventory structure last year after some hideous object with 47,000 inventroy items turned up that would have taken over a thousand years for he content management scan with the old, non-indexed version
* [15:37] Carmilla Linden: that one serialized out to something like 350M of LLSD
* [15:38] Gooden Uggla: thanks carmilla, we'll start making your statue
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: I expect the new kernel will fix a lot of ills
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: thank you carmilla
* [15:38] Rex Cronon: 47k items? lol
* [15:38] Carmilla Linden: yeah
* [15:38] Pauline Darkfury: And, sorry if this question was addressed earlier, but Aditi wouldn't let me login properly, so I missed the start. Are we expecting any improvements other than regions getting stuck offline, from the hardware maint tomorrow & Monday?
* [15:38] Carmilla Linden: thousands of copies of the same two dozen or so, too
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: I remember that bug
* [15:38] Rex Cronon: was the owner trying to crash a sim?
* [15:39] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, I was a late arrival too--would you post the agenda link again please?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: Pauline the region maintennance is nothing more than a simulator restart
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:39] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, but more what it's fixing. It will only fix cases of regions getting stuck offline, not any general performance stuff?
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: pauline the estate owners are restarting their sims to keep up performance, sound familiar?
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: :)
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: that's it
* [15:40] Carmilla Linden: i don't know what the motive behind that was; i redesigned LLTaskInventory using a custom AVL tree instead of an std::vector, and added indexing on item name and asset ID, which cut the offending algorithm down from cubic time to O(n*log^2(n)) and then ran in 18 seconds
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: I'll have the notes from the meeting up soon
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, I've been dealing with perf issues on over 250 regions myself…
* [15:40] Leonel Iceghost: Camilla why it sends the whole serialized avatar to the viewer? can't it send only the necessary?
* [15:40] Carmilla Linden: but large objects like that are also a potentially nasty problem with region cross
* [15:40] Carmilla Linden: it doesn't send them to the viewer
* [15:40] Carmilla Linden: it has to send them to the neighboring region
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Not all of them with issues, but an annoyingly large number with odd issues
* [15:40] Rex Cronon: it is passing ave info to the sim u r going to
* [15:41] Flip Idlemind: 18 seconds down from a thousand years?
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: that's a good improvement
* [15:41] Carmilla Linden: and to avoid a perceivable block it'd have to do it in less than one sim frame
* [15:41] Carmilla Linden: which is only 22 milliseconds or so
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: while we are speaking of the kernel upgrades I have a question to ask
* [15:41] arton Rotaru: make it happen pls :)
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: we need to make a new micro channel to test the kernel upgrades
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: we're taking a portion of the main channel
* [15:42] Flip Idlemind: And you want us to vote on a name?
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: and we wanted to create a subset to test just the kernel upgrade
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: no cide
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: well
* [15:43] Coyot Linden: We should call it 486 since it is a microchannel architecture
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: we were going to call it "Second_Life Server" so people didn't freak out about being put on a new channel
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: but I started to worry about that
* [15:43] Homeless: you could call it "homeless"
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I think calling the channel that will break things I don't know about
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: do you know of any external resi tools that rely on that being "Second Life Server" without the _
* [15:43] Rex Cronon: just "486 chip" might be just fine:)
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: Or, or
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: you could call it
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: Popcorn
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: ok ok you guys are being no help :-p
* [15:44] Kadah Coba: Call it "Second Life RC ElTuna"
* [15:44] Techwolf Lupindo: Most content creaters hide there server code from users, So users don't know about how the tool works.
* [15:44] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden believes that popcorn is a violation of the Geneva Conventions
* [15:45] Flip Idlemind: Cuz of popcorn Kernel, get it?
* [15:45] Nalates Urriah: lol.... that'll teach you to ask a serious question
* [15:45] Flip Idlemind: And also, you've already made one called "Snack"
* [15:45] Flip Idlemind: Is it such a stretch
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: I've got enough info to know it will break some stuff but not sure the scope
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it's a bit of a PR storm anytime we put people on new channels though
* [15:45] Coyot Linden: It's a greenish fluid
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: even if it's better for them
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: but the PR storm is better than the PR storm from breaking a ton of stuff
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: if the number 486 will be part of its name, than it could give some clue of how it works
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: alright. moving on
* [15:46] Kadah Coba: You can put my region on that channel if you like, not that it gets much of any traffic :o
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: haha
* [15:46] Flip Idlemind: Yes, moving on. (But I still vote for Popcorn)
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: LeTigre has the same maint-server as before
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: nothing new to see there
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: Magnum has a new project though
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: ooooh shiny
* [15:46] Coyot Linden: move along, move along
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: we've moved mutelist functionality out of the simulator into the People API
* [15:47] Pauline Darkfury: Oskar, an emphatic "NO" from me on calling it "Second_Life Server". It's already hard enough to keep track of channels. Just be transparent and honest about it, make it obvious.
* [15:47] Jonathan Yap: Is the people API web-based?
* [15:47] Flame of Jira: Status 404
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: does that mean people will be muted if u r in the same group chat?
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: it means that the people api will control and track those changes instead of the simulator
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: so web features will respect the mutelist
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: call it the "enchilada" channel
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: any new feature that ties into the People API will know who is and isn't muted
* [15:49] Flip Idlemind: Like the feed on web profiles?
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, is there some place we can test this change?
* [15:49] Techwolf Lupindo: Does this mean profiles will be broken or does this just affects the mutelist?
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: "Second Life Server FriedChicken"
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: because you're going to test the whole enchilada
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: get it... Kernel Sanders
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: :-p
* [15:49] Kadah Coba: I like it :3
* [15:50] Techwolf Lupindo: Not everyone has downgraded to web profiles yet.
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: no in world functionality changes
* [15:50] Kadah Coba: LFK, Linden Fried Kernel
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: it's cleaning house basically and putting mutelist functionality where it should be
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: in the People API
* [15:50] Kadah Coba: Sounds good
* [15:51] Jonathan Yap: Can we test this change yet or have to wait a bit?
* [15:51] Techwolf Lupindo: Ok. But is the API to get the mute list from the viewer side changing?
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: the changes are in Magnum but disabled
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: it needs to be enabled once the code is on the entire grid
* [15:51] Jonathan Yap: No place on aditi has the change ?
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: I don't know
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: o.O
* [15:52] Jonathan Yap: Maybe you can set one up ?
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: I'll see what I can do
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: I have one last thing to talk about and then Coyot has a demo
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: actually I have 2 more things
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: thanks to everyone who helped with inventory testing
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/InventoryBetaTest
* [15:52] Coyot Linden: I thought the kernel was the preimage of the identity under the group homomorphism
* [15:53] Coyot Linden: anyway
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: we found a LOT of bugs
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: including many exising bugs
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: and a few security issues
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: so kudos all around
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: a lot of the bugs have been fixed
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: if you haven't gone out and poked the regions to see if you could uncover any inv bugs I encourage you to
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: details here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/InventoryBetaTest
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: one upcoming change we have is in the drtsim-111 code
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: we have a fix for SCR-37
* [15:54] Flame of Jira: [#SCR-37] llGiveMoney() method needs a money_given() event handler. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-37
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: which I am sure will be VERY welcome
* [15:54] arton Rotaru: I like the other fixes in that branch more
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: Sandbox Waterton has DRTSIM-111 now
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: pls roll it out as soon a spossible :p
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: -s
* [15:55] Coyot Linden: can't roll out everything at once. ;)
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: I don't have more details but I will get them to you
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: slowly but surely arton
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: ok Coyot
* [15:55] Coyot Linden: ty
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: last 5 minutes are yours
* [15:55] Coyot Linden: So, as you may know
* [15:56] Coyot Linden: if you join SL these days
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: I think this will improve scripted vendors. But so would a way to request someone's key by their name (like llName2Key or the dataserver equivalent)
* [15:56] Coyot Linden: the website has a carosel
* [15:56] Pauline Darkfury: What about the broken posJump behaviour (can't posJump within a no-object-entry parcel)?
* [15:56] Coyot Linden: of new avatars for you to choose from
* [15:56] Coyot Linden: we've got some more to add to the list
* [15:57] Pauline Darkfury: SVC-7265 if memory serves
* [15:57] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7265] PosJump breaks if object-entry is disabled https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7265
* [15:57] Coyot Linden: now there are vampires and werewolves
* [15:57] Coyot Linden: for example:
* [15:57] Leonel Iceghost: oh Puline, since when :(
* [15:57] Pauline Darkfury: since a month or so ago
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: this is one of the new wolves
* [15:58] Leonel Iceghost: then I got some things broken
* [15:58] Homeless: did you make it?
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: no
* [15:58] Pauline Darkfury: not being able to posjump from outside the parcel into it would be expected behaviour, but posJump inside it is something that is very much needed
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: we got in-world content creators to do it
* [15:58] WolfPup Lowenhar: looks like a mesh made WW
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: rigged mesh ? :p
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: changing to another one now
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: coyot. your lycan has breasts
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: lol yeah
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: so?
* [15:59] Homeless: must be female
* [15:59] WolfPup Lowenhar: ya i think he loaded the female version of it
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: I never knew how good you could look wiath substatntial mammaries
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: are you saying there aren't any female werewolves
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: ?
* [16:00] Coyot Linden: haha
* [16:00] Coyot Linden: This is a wolf form
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: it was very capitoline of you
* [16:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Is that aviable in the LIb?
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: anyway, these should all be in your libraries
* [16:01] Gooden UgglaGooden Uggla is glad he's in phoenix
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: clothes/initial outfits/...
* [16:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: that is an exclent question TechWolf
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: aww can't see the meshes?
* [16:01] Techwolf Lupindo: I"me in firestorm, but phoenix will work with those too.
* [16:01] Techwolf Lupindo: Due to release soon.....
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: i must need to update
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: i g2g. bey
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: ah, ok
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: thanks everyone for coming
* [16:02] Gooden UgglaGooden Uggla recently switched over from snowglobe
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: I hoped you enjoyed the show and tell
* [16:02] Gooden Uggla: quite nice, thank s
* [16:02] Flip Idlemind: See you all the next time I see you all :D
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: yep, very informative
* [16:02] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me suprized LL is suporting deforms. That quad wolf must be using deforms to work right.
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: and thank you Carmilla for your explanations and good luck
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks Carmilla!
* [16:02] Coyot Linden: +1
* [16:02] Grid Crash Protection Box: Yuzuru Jewell, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [16:03] Grid Crash Protection Box: Yuzuru Jewell, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [16:03] Gooden Uggla: thank carmilla for confusing the heck outta me
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: haha
* [16:03] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Lindens, have a good one
* [16:03] Techwolf Lupindo: That wolf has a bloody muzzle. Deosnt' LL know wolves are NOT evil?
* [16:03] Gooden Uggla: it's a werewolf
* [16:03] arton Rotaru: how about some adult pornstar AVs :P
* [16:03] Coyot Linden: Speak for yourself. ;)
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: it's raspberry jam
* [16:04] Gooden Uggla: evil by nature
* [16:04] Gooden Uggla: because it's part man!
* [16:04] Homeless: Wolves are carnivores and messy eaters
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend everyone
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: see you in two weeks!
* [16:04] Techwolf Lupindo: Nah, they use there tounge to clean up there muzzle, blood on muzzle only lasts a few seconds.
* [16:04] Coyot Linden: bye!
* [16:04] arton Rotaru: thx you too
* [16:04] arton Rotaru: bye
* [16:04] Homeless: cya then!
* [16:05] Techwolf LupindoTechwolf Lupindo grins