Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.01.07

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk	David Thurman 	Ima Mechanique
Inara Pey 	Jenna Felton 	Jonathan Yap
Kallista Arliss 	Kennylex Luckless	Lexbot Sinister
Mona Eberhardt 	Motor Loon 	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden 	Tankmaster Finesmith
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Simon Linden: ok, we might as well get rolling ... first, Happy New Year to everyone
[12:01] Kennylex Luckless: Simon is a Linden, he has to obay us users, so sit where you like :-)
[12:01] Rex Cronon: happy new year:)
[12:01] Simon Linden: This morning we updated the main channel with the code that was on the RCs
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Kelly!
[12:01] Jenna Felton: happy new year :)
[12:02] Simon Linden: The release info is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-01-06/td-p/2423849
[12:02] Simon Linden: The update was very minor with a fix for vehicles and counting them correctly
[12:03] Simon Linden: The RC channels will all get another new server tomorrow
[12:03] Simon Linden: This is a bit more interesting with some LSL changes that let you scale objects uniformly
[12:04] Simon Linden: It's from some of Andrew's last work
[12:04] Motor Loon: Some of that related to the autoreturn-not-always-working?
[12:04] Simon Linden: yes Motor ... not accounting for vehicles correctly would mess that up
[12:05] Motor Loon: Ok, wife will be happy to hear that... she's been grumpy about having to return 50 motorcycles left around our sims every day lol
[12:06] Simon Linden: The code rolling out tomorrow for initial support to let the viewer download the LSL syntax file comes with a big caveat ... the file format will change so the viewer underdevelopment is also going to change before it gets released more
[12:06] Simon Linden: we'll update that file from the server soon ... probably in the next RC
[12:06] Ima Mechanique: viewer has already changed ;-)
[12:07] Jonathan Yap: Simon, do you have the release notes for what is going out tomorrow?
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: thats not going to be a fun update in its current format
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: from what im told, each timenyou tp, the viewer will download a 4mb file
[12:07] Simon Linden: ok Ima ... I know Oz is also looking at all the bugs there. I was working on that syntax file before the holidays and discovered one nasty issue - bad xml would crash the viewer. Thus there's a risk if we ever released a bad file, or you had download issues, that could start killing viewers
[12:08] Simon Linden: anyway, that is moving along nicely and should be working soon
[12:08] Ima Mechanique: Tank for syntax?
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: is that Correct?
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: yeah
[12:08] Ima Mechanique: no
[12:08] Simon Linden: it certainly shouldn't do that
[12:08] Simon Linden: but the files are versioned
[12:09] Ima Mechanique: file is currently about 600K, and is only downloaded IF you open the lsl editor AND you do not already have it for the sim rleasse you are in, so one file more most of the grid
[12:09] Ima Mechanique: s/for/more
[12:09] Tankmaster Finesmith: so it is cached?
[12:09] Ima Mechanique: yes
[12:09] Jonathan Yap: Someone was asking on Monday if it is sent compressed
[12:10] Simon Linden: so worst case would be if we have different versions between RC and the main channel, and you go hopping back and forth opening up script editors
[12:10] Ima Mechanique: then you'd have about four downloads to cover each version Simon
[12:11] Ima Mechanique: and you'd only need one editor left open ;-) it updates when you switch sims if the editor is open
[12:11] Simon Linden: right, so not a big problem
[12:11] Kallista Arliss: Oh so that would produce strangeness occasionally.
[12:12] Ima Mechanique: how strangenes Kallista?
[12:13] Kallista Arliss: You've edited something and doen a test compile, then get evicted from a region for whatever reason... Bang the underlying LSL changes and you can't compile again...
[12:13] Kallista Arliss: Predictabel, sort of
[12:13] Simon Linden: In any case, that feature is in flux and if you experiment with the new viewer and find any bugs or strangeness, please report them
[12:13] Ima Mechanique: well that would be true if the underlying LSL changed regardless of this change. that's handled by the sim itself, comppiling
[12:14] Kallista Arliss: nods nods
[12:14] Simon Linden: That's all I have for news
[12:14] Jonathan Yap: Is that syntax file sent compressed?
[12:15] Simon Linden: I don't know
[12:16] Jenna Felton: About llGetMinScaleFactor in release notes, i beleive that are not correct, they tell about 1mm, as of i know we cant have prims less than 1 cm :)
[12:16] Jenna Felton: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/13#13.12.20.285035
[12:17] Simon Linden: Thanks, I'll pass that along
[12:17] Jenna Felton: thank you :)
[12:18] Motor Loon: 1mm is quite a bit less than 1cm
[12:18] Simon Linden: about 10%, I'd guess
[12:18] Motor Loon: more or less :-)
[12:18] Qie Niangao: almost an order of magnitude, ya might say
[12:18] Simon Linden: unless we're talking about volumes :)
[12:18] Motor Loon: the text looks correct to me
[12:19] Motor Loon: in the notes
[12:19] Motor Loon: every prim must be >= 0.01 in scale... thats 1mm like it says right?
[12:19] Jenna Felton: float llGetMinScaleFactor()
 Returns the minimum multiplicative scale factor which can be used by llScaleByFactor(); i.e. such that every prim in the linkset is >=1mm in scale
[12:20] Jenna Felton: 1mm is 0.001
[12:20] Kallista Arliss: 0.01 is 1/100 of a Meter or a CM
[12:20] Motor Loon: ah yeah
[12:21] Jenna Felton: maybe i misunderstood. because the question is scale from what
[12:21] Lexbot Sinister: 0.1 = decimeter
[12:21] Lexbot Sinister: it often gets forgotten
[12:22] Jenna Felton: Simon, a few days ago there came a note around, kinda sent from you, about that “[L4L]-Gestures & Walkers (Freebies) <3? Was that you who sent it? i mean the warning
[12:22] Jenna Felton: it was described with your name but i have not found any announces on the forums and elsewhere about it
[12:23] Simon Linden: I'm not sure where that originated ... I've been asked about it a few times and I think originally someone told me about the object, and I gave the usual "be careful what you take from strangers and wear or rez and give permissions to" reply
[12:23] Rex Cronon: what warning?
[12:23] Simon Linden: They re-wrote the warning about that object and added my name
[12:23] Simon Linden: and it's bounced around a bit
[12:24] Jenna Felton: WARNING: A malicious freebie is making the rounds in second life.
 If you receive an object called “[L4L]-Gestures & Walkers (Freebies) <3?, delete it at once. DO NOT Rez, or wear it! This object will rez replicating micro cubes in YOUR name filling up a sim, which could cause it to crash, inadvertently making YOU the villain and subject to banning, and/or an AR being filed. Those cubes then send the malicious freebie to other avatars in the immediate vicinity, making it a vicious cycle.
 Simon Linden
[12:24] Jenna Felton: this was the text
[12:24] David Thurman: i was wondering if that object was a virus it could have being easier just to wipe it from database....
[12:24] Simon Linden: Right, that's not written by me
[12:24] Jenna Felton: there is a sentence that made me curious, This "Those cubes then send the malicious freebie to other avatars in the immediate vicinity, making it a vicious cycle"
[12:25] Adamburp Adamczyk: at least it wasn't a warning from Simon that SL spam gives you diarhoeaa
[12:25] Simon Linden: I think it just does inventory offers
[12:25] Jenna Felton: i was curiuis if there is now possible that an object can give itself to someone else
[12:25] Ima Mechanique: why do we never hear about friendly cycles ?
[12:25] Lexbot Sinister: Hard to be a newbie these days , being urged to "never wear or rez objects from strangers" when everyone on the whole SL is in fact, a stranger to them.
[12:25] Qie Niangao: Some stranger than others.
[12:25] Jenna Felton: so it is just a nested prim and the virus will terminate after a few gives?
[12:25] Rex Cronon: it had a copy of itself in its inventory and gave that to those around. most likely
[12:26] Jenna Felton: yes
[12:26] Jenna Felton: so this chain will terminate after a few times it has given the content, because than nothing is nested more
[12:27] Kallista Arliss: /
[12:27] Rex Cronon: i think it will continue until it is deleted
[12:27] Simon Linden: It would all depend on how many generations are built into the original objects
[12:28] Jenna Felton: this will change when scribt will become able to return boxes into prim inventory :) than you can rez the copy, give a dummy to it and take the copy back, and crate so an infinite virus giver
[12:28] Jenna Felton: create*
[12:29] David Thurman: but you can transfer inventory from a prim to another, right?
[12:29] Rex Cronon: u don't transfer. u give a copy
[12:29] Jenna Felton: yes, but not take the prim back into other prim making it to a virus to give to an avatar
[12:29] Ima Mechanique: and only if the receiving prim allows it
[12:30] Rex Cronon: if second prim is owned by same owner it is allowed
[12:31] Jenna Felton: i think not always, the receiver prim must be modify to the owner or have inventory_drop interface allowed
[12:31] Jenna Felton: probably being modify is always needed
[12:32] Inara Pey: Sorry, was afk, and catching-up on the chat. the “-[L4L]- Gestures & Walkers (Freebies) <3" griefing object thing dates back to 2012. There was a N/vard circulated then about it, and picked up by a number of blogs.
[12:32] Inara Pey: It seems to have re-surfaced of late.
[12:33] Inara Pey: I've noticed a large upswing of views on my Nov 2012 report on it.
[12:33] Qie Niangao: I thought the name sounded familiar
[12:33] Jenna Felton: somehow that passed me by without i had notice it
[12:34] Inara Pey: The last 4 days or so has seen that report getting a lot of page views
[12:34] Jenna Felton: yes, got the warning from 3 groups i beleive.
[12:35] Inara Pey: No idea if it is indicative of the problem resurfacing or simply an old warning re-doing the rounds
[12:36] Simon Linden: I did hear one report of it (or something very similar) being used
[12:36] Jenna Felton: btw, is there a way to delete that object form the avatars and prims inventory when you know the object?
[12:36] David Thurman: i have recive thta warning several times but never the actual object, i wonder how real that stuff is...
[12:36] Simon Linden: I don't know if the object itself is spreading around, or just chat about it
[12:37] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what you mean, Jenna ... you mean like Linden support killing the object or inventory?
[12:38] Kallista Arliss: Mostly FUD I'll bet.
[12:38] Lexbot Sinister: Maybe the warning about the self-replicator is the actual "virus", making people replicate it and send it around!
[12:38] Jenna Felton: the object from my inventory, or when it is embeded somewhere than there
[12:39] Jenna Felton: my, means all residents
[12:39] Jenna Felton: so rezzing is no more possible at all
[12:39] David Thurman: jenna you have the object on your inventory?
[12:39] Jenna Felton: no, have not found it
[12:40] Jenna Felton: otherwise i wanted to rezz it where scripts are off to examine
[12:40] Jonathan Yap: Is it possible to figure out who is wearing some object that is sending message to local chat?
[12:40] Jonathan Yap: *messages
[12:40] Rex Cronon: u can find the owner of an object that talks on channel 0
[12:40] Simon Linden: There's a big fuzzy middle-ground between "possible" and "practical"
[12:41] Jenna Felton: when i hear the object message i mostly can see who is the object owner and where it is when rezzed, but nt when worn
[12:41] Jonathan Yap: hmmm, I might have to remember to try look at last chatter
[12:41] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[12:42] Simon Linden: That's worn, fwiw
[12:42] Simon Linden: the info shows it at 0,0,0
[12:42] Jonathan Yap: yeah, the look at last chatter does help a bit
[12:42] Jenna Felton: it gives me 0,0,0 as position
[12:42] Ima Mechanique: I hate that default script
[12:42] David Thurman: guess is time to ask, what viewer you using?
[12:43] Jenna Felton: i am in firestorm
[12:43] Jonathan Yap: I was using the LL viewer when I was trying to find an object named :
[12:43] Rex Cronon: hmm. i never heard any of them talk
[12:43] Jonathan Yap: that was spamming ppl
[12:43] Simon Linden: Second Life 3.6.13 (284995)
[12:43] Rex Cronon: hmm
[12:43] Rex Cronon: weird
[12:43] Rex Cronon: i have object muted. why did i hear your objects talk simon?
[12:44] Rex Cronon: i can't mute objects owned by lindens?
[12:44] Jenna Felton: perhaps you cant mute Linden's objects?
[12:44] Simon Linden: possibly, yes
[12:44] Jonathan Yap: mute processing is done in the viewer, so it would depend on how it is programmed
[12:44] Simon Linden: but I'm guessing
[12:44] Simon Linden: right, it's up to the viewer to filter that out
[12:45] Jonathan Yap: but often there is a test for Linden-ness
[12:48] Simon Linden: Like blue chat
[12:49] Simon Linden: I have a random viewer usage poll ... do you ever find yourself right-clicking on something to sit, and find the menu pops up so the upper items are off screen, even when there is space to move it downwards?
[12:49] Jonathan Yap: I thought that bug had been fixed
[12:49] Ima Mechanique: nope, I have PIES
[12:50] Simon Linden: ah, maybe I'm still seeing that in an older one then ... I'll check and grab a snapshot if I see it again
[12:50] Lexbot Sinister: i have Pie too.
[12:50] Jonathan Yap: I remember a jira for that a long time ago...but maybe it was not fixed in all places
[12:50] Ima Mechanique: I like mmmmm pie
[12:51] Rex Cronon: idon't think i had that problem
[12:51] Simon Linden: hmmm yeah, I'm not seeing it now either
[12:51] Jonathan Yap: Hopefully Whirly gets back soon
[12:52] Jenna Felton: when i right click at something very close to the upper border of the screen, than the mouse pinter is moved down to make the pie to be in the screen
[12:54] Simon Linden: I'm hearing a lot of crickets ... if we've run out of topics lets call it over and I'll go back to making lag
[12:55] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon
[12:55] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today ... I'll see you next time
[12:55] Martin RJ (martinrj.fayray): no simon, I never saw the menu pop up off screen
[12:55] Lexbot Sinister: i KNEW thats what you do in the afternoons >.<
[12:55] Mona Eberhardt: Thank you Simon.
[12:55] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Simon.
[12:55] Ima Mechanique: bye Simon
[12:55] Inara Pey: Thanks, Simon.
[12:55] Jonathan Yap: Bye Simon
[12:56] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[12:56] Kallista Arliss: Thanks Simon and Kelly
[12:56] Jenna Felton: Thanks for the meting Simon and Kellie :)
[12:56] Lexbot Sinister: See you after new server version mayhem!
[12:56] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[12:56] Jenna Felton: and pass a happy new year to Andrew :)
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: Give Andrew my best, Simon.
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: Is Andrew still receiving emails?
[12:57] Simon Linden: His Linden email address has stopped, I think
[12:58] Inara Pey: Ciao, all
[12:58] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:58] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Rex.
Simulator_User_Group
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