Open Source Meeting/2010-05-27

=== Agenda Thursday, 27 May 2010 ===
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# The future of Snowglobe 1.x
#* What features in 1.x not yet in 2.x are most important to move?
# / (HTTP Map URL capability)
#* John Hurliman asked whether we could get SNOW-77_map_url_cap.diff committed - he intends to implement support for this on Opensim as soon as there's a viewer binary with this.
#* This will be more useful if it's included in the regular Viewer2.x as well. What does Merov (or other relevant Lindens) think about this?
# Your topic here!
If we run out of topics before the end of the meeting, we'll triage Snowglobe or Open Source specific Jira Issues from the list below.
* Sorry about the [00:00] timestamps in the log. I didn't have that enabled, so had to fake it for the log wikifier.--Thickbrick Sleaford 23:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
== Transcript ==
[00:00]	:	Hi guys
[00:00]	:	salut Merov! ㋡
[00:00]	:	hi Merov
[00:00]	:	well taking the texture fetcher to os grid was an _experience_ it crashed and crashed and asserted and died
[00:00]	:	Salut Eddi
[00:00]	:	building the viewr is such a pain when trying to use newer boost or newer buils systems
[00:00]	:	happy to see you ㋡
[00:00]	:	Allez, on fait tout en français ajourd'hui, c'est fête... ;)
[00:00]	:	lol
[00:00]	:	hey merov
[00:00]	:	k, seriously, agenda: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[00:00]	:	avec un traducteur anglais, peut-être :p (with an English translator, perhaps: p)
[00:00]	:	I gues I am not with the "in crowd" as I just build the viewer with what it builds well with.
[00:00]	 	reminds me to ask Thickbrick how the Snowglobe translator ports goes
[00:00]	:	bk
[00:00]	:	heya merov
[00:00]	:	hi Youri
[00:00]	:	that is what im having to do as well ardy which is useing VS2005 and 1.39 boost libs
[00:00]	:	I haven't started yet... been suffering from ADD
[00:00]	:	ADD? i have Asperger
[00:00]	:	Merov, i'm still backed up with some contract work, but i'm making progress and hopefully will be able to do some decent SG work soon
[00:00]	:	hi rand
[00:00]	:	Howdy!
[00:00]	:	hey rand (hey edge)
[00:00]	:	Thanks for the update Robin and Thickbrick
[00:00]	 	checks Thickbrick's Carry Flag
[00:00]	:	so, 1. Weekly update
[00:00]	:	I've been working mostly on 1.x port
[00:00]	:	Updating https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgvC7hm5YZqcdHVXb05iTE0wTFc0bWptTW4tOTZuS3c&hl=en as I go
[00:00]	:	Thanks Techwolf for the patches :)
[00:00]	:	aimee now that i can build the viewer i could help who ever is working on adding the build floater to the side bar
[00:00]	:	About that, the commit of the port of SNOW-297 doesn't build
[00:00]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-297
[00:00]	 	clicking on resident profile link in in-world search
[00:00]	:	it's moving along, I hope it'd be faster but we're getting threr
[00:00]	:	tech aint here yet
[00:00]	:	stable_sort doesn't like std::list
[00:00]	:	darn!
[00:00]	:	it builds on Windows...
[00:00]	:	at least, on my machine
[00:00]	:	I should hit the parabuild to get a clear reading
[00:00]	:	I haven't had time to test it yet, but there's a report of failed build on gcc 4.4
[00:00]	:	Hmmm... OK, I restarted the parabuild 2.0 builds for all platforms
[00:00]	:	we'll know better soon
[00:00]	:	if we have to roll back though, it's not a big change (1 line)
[00:00]	:	the rationale for the change was still holding up in the 2.0 code base though that's why I ported it
[00:00]	:	One thing I *need* to do and haven't had time to do yet is updating the 1.x bundles on the download page
[00:00]	:	xstorm?
[00:00]	:	I haven't forgotten, just got burried in port and other things internally
[00:00]	:	hey pixel
[00:00]	:	ok
[00:00]	:	pixel you ever get yours to build?
[00:00]	:	Hey Wolf
[00:00]	:	No
[00:00]	:	k, that's it for my update since Tuesday
[00:00]	:	next: 2.: the future of 1.x
[00:00]	:	take a seat rand, aimee wont bite (only sit ontop of your head on worst) :p
[00:00]	:	Merov, what do you know about folders conflict between 1.XX and 2.XX cause when i install the viewer i have some happy bugs on xml files in my 2.0 ㋡
[00:00]	:	lol
[00:00]	:	I haven't looked into this Eddi
[00:00]	:	The issue here is how to expend effort - which viewer source branches should get our collective attention?
[00:00]	:	It's fairly clear that Linden Lab doesn't have the resources to actively maintain both Snowglobe 1.x and 2.x
[00:00]	:	eddi there are extra folders in 2.x that are not in 1.x and that might be where you xml issues are comeing from
[00:00]	:	true
[00:00]	:	ok, cause if you see i need to re-install the viewer 2.0 cause some thing in panel prefrence is trunkated ㋡
[00:00]	:	what I've been doing is provide back end support for building and maintaing the trees up
[00:00]	:	so that the community can work on those
[00:00]	:	I'd like to fairly quickly get to the point where all our new work is happening on the 2.x branch. That said, I understand that might leave behind things that the Snowglobe user/dev base wants. What I'd like to know is... what needs to happen to make that choice that most people can be happy with?
[00:00]	:	will snowglobe use the HTTP textures and if so will not some users around the world have problems with that ?
[00:00]	:	ok right thanks ㋡
[00:00]	:	sorry guys, i have to run
[00:00]	:	friend needs me
[00:00]	:	bye bye :)
[00:00]	:	bye Youri
[00:00]	:	bye
[00:00]	:	bye bye TYouri, and thanks for yesterday again lol
[00:00]	:	Youri*
[00:00]	:	i would still like to get the chat history back in the conversation window with the im histories
[00:00]	:	Trendone. I think http textures will be optional for the forseeable future (considering it's default to off in 2.0.1)
[00:00]	:	I can't talk for the whole community of course but I think getting SG 2.0 on par (feature wise) with SG 1.x is a prerequisite
[00:00]	:	i think its premeture to kill of 1.4 yet, we don't need to be putting much effort into keeping it there, but leave trunk for 1.4 open and let merovs autobuilder still run builds if we need an update, but agreeded we need to focus main effort on getting 2.0 to where people are happy with it
[00:00]	:	To be clear... I don't object to anyone else working on 1.x at all; I'd just like to know why so that we can tempt them to join us on 2.x
[00:00]	:	I guess it's the UI
[00:00]	:	then there are some specific 2.0 gripes that needs attention
[00:00]	:	i've got skinning working again in 2.0
[00:00]	:	Oz, why the 1.4 work fine again, for some resident ㋡
[00:00]	:	Personally, I don't see 2.0 as an option for daily use anytime soon - it requires some serious accesiblity work.
[00:00]	:	can we collectively make a list (over the next week or so,say?)
[00:00]	:	+1 on getting the list of minimal changes that would make Snowglobe contributors to switchto 2.0
[00:00]	:	oh hi Squirrel ㋡
[00:00]	:	I like the way 2.0 handles groups but nothing else
[00:00]	:	Hai!
[00:00]	:	one thing that could go on that list is having the nearby chat maintain being actgive whe you click any where in the vier that is not needing text input
[00:00]	:	"nothing" is a pretty strong word, Nicky :-)
[00:00]	:	hey squirrel
[00:00]	:	you may have seen guys that viewer-external (2.0.2) has lots of changes addressing UI issues
[00:00]	 	blames Aimee just cause she can ^^
[00:00]	:	Ill look for other stuff to like
[00:00]	:	e.g. build tools more readily available
[00:00]	:	Second Life 2.0.2 (205287) May 27 2010 05:37:54 (CommunityDeveloper)
[00:00]	:	Yeah, I use it.
[00:00]	:	yup, s'what I'm here for!
[00:00]	:	Can't find much about it i like
[00:00]	:	A little. Still is impeding me.
[00:00]	:	yeah Merov, i have tryed the 2.0.2 , but my viewer close without warning and without crash loguer one time per day, and i dont know why .. honestly its not stable ..
[00:00]	:	Is viewer-external still hiding where to upload textures? ;-)
[00:00]	:	It's getting better though.
[00:00]	:	looks like i might need to get viewer-external for Viwer2 and work on building it
[00:00]	:	I confess to being ignorant - I'm not only new to SL in general, I've actually never run a 1.x viewer
[00:00]	:	inventory file upload
[00:00]	:	Have the deadlock work Robin has done made it into the v2 sources yet?
[00:00]	:	Hey all, sorry to butt in, but the reason I dropped by (at Merov's suggestion) was to let you know about some work I've been doing on the wiki re: XUI information: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/XUI_Reference
[00:00]	:	Control-U to upload textures works.
[00:00]	:	I hope you do get all the crash logs the logger sends whenever SL decides it wants to crash when the map window is open(ed) ^^
[00:00]	:	Noticed that, Rand. Great stuff!
[00:00]	:	I added some internal info, organized and edited content, etc.
[00:00]	:	Boroondas: I don't think that upload texture code change
[00:00]	:	thanks!
[00:00]	:	changed
[00:00]	:	not the code, the UI
[00:00]	:	Thanks Rand!
[00:00]	:	Still needs work, but perhaps a better framework to work with, I hope...
[00:00]	:	o/ for documentation :)
[00:00]	 	forgot to add Rand to the agenda!
[00:00]	:	thanks for coming Rand
[00:00]	:	np Merov...
[00:00]	:	thanks rand, i will give it a look
[00:00]	:	Unfort. I have to leave in a few mins... so I wanted to just pipe up
[00:00]	:	and thanks for sharing that doc: I've been telling those guys it was coming for several meetings now :)
[00:00]	:	np, Rand - that looks very useful
[00:00]	:	Great..feel free to send requests for anything specific
[00:00]	:	your pipe very much appreciated :)
[00:00]	:	:-)
[00:00]	:	What would be a good way for us to develop a list? Perhaps a page linked to the agenda of our next meeting?
[00:00]	:	everyone put on thier thoughts?
[00:00]	:	I'd like an opensource-dev thread
[00:00]	:	not incompatible with wiki though
[00:00]	:	eventually, wiki lists need to be turned in actionnable JIRA though
[00:00]	:	that works for me too. I think it would be useful to have a list pulled together to frame discussion, but I'm happy to pull that out of a thread
[00:00]	:	aren't there already meta-issues on pJIRA about this? (well, no dev-specific ones, but still)
[00:00]	:	I bet that "detachable slide panel" will get there as soon as we start the discussion :)
[00:00]	:	yes there is a meta jira concerning source code issues
[00:00]	:	yeah, I just get the sense that pjira items might be to granular to get the high level priorities sorted out
[00:00]	:	BOOL:SidebarCameraMovement is in viewer-external now
[00:00]	:	No UI element for it that I have found yet.
[00:00]	:	sorry, i have to take off...thx everyone!
[00:00]	:	But it does work. I needed that.
[00:00]	:	cheers Rand
[00:00]	:	tc, Rand
[00:00]	:	adios!!
[00:00]	:	Ok... I just wanted to float this here to get people thinking about it.
[00:00]	 	< need to look into starting to build the newest version of viewer-external if there is a V@ of it
[00:00]	:	I will kick off a list thread for this
[00:00]	:	cool! thanks Oz
[00:00]	:	ok, point 3. SNOW-77
[00:00]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-77
[00:00]	 	shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
[00:00]	:	osgrid already has a (partial, only zoom level 1 so far) tile repository: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/58690/Lbsa%20Plaza%20http%20map.png
[00:00]	:	I'll look into this wrt 2.0 port
[00:00]	:	I *think* there has been some changes in that code in viewer-external
[00:00]	:	I want to do things in a way that won't conflict with that too much
[00:00]	:	IIRC, 2.0.2 added code to get a root URL from resources
[00:00]	:	oh
[00:00]	:	cheap hack (no server change) and not incompatible with SNOW-77 (cap)
[00:00]	:	sort of a fall back way though
[00:00]	:	cap is better I think and that's the favored solution from OpenSim folks
[00:00]	:	oh would this work for a fallback on beta?
[00:00]	:	er? a fall back on beta?
[00:00]	:	excuse me ignorance, but what are "resources"?
[00:00]	:	beta grid has no map server
[00:00]	:	a right, yes, I think so
[00:00]	:	by resources, I meant some local file (I think it's in pref actually)
[00:00]	:	ah, ok
[00:00]	:	like the debug setting SNOW-77 ads for the fallback URL?
[00:00]	:	oh, I see viewer-external has :
[00:00]	:	std::string imageurl = gSavedSettings.getString("MapServerURL") + llformat("map-%d-%d-%d-objects.jpg", level, grid_x, grid_y);
[00:00]	:	so basicall the same thing
[00:00]	:	Ha! I thought I saw that going through :)
[00:00]	:	yes, that's it, thanks Thickbrick
[00:00]	:	so how do we move with this?
[00:00]	:	saw, in conclusion on SNOW-77: yes, I can do that in 1.4 and port to 2.0 doing some cautious merge with viewer-external changes
[00:00]	:	I'll just be cautious with the change in viewer-external: it's not big really, just need to use the same code so that I avoid bizarre conflicts later
[00:00]	:	k, looks like we're at the end of this short agenda :)
[00:00]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5598
[00:00]	:	[#SVC-5598] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[00:00]	:	I wanted to ask about SL7B
[00:00]	:	I wanna poke somebody for that one, HARD.
[00:00]	:	Server folks say it's not their problem.
[00:00]	:	well we have not had the offical word of our position back yet, but we probably should think a little harder on what we can build at SL7B to form our "stand"
[00:00]	 	looks into the JIRA
[00:00]	:	All the land I work on is affected by that.
[00:00]	:	Robin... what word are we waiting for?
[00:00]	:	Ardy yeah i have noticed that ㋡
[00:00]	:	they don't let you know you actually have a spot at SL7B untill almost the last minute before building time
[00:00]	:	i vote on the jira for now ㋡
[00:00]	:	Let's assume that we have a spot. If for some reason we don't get one, I'll raise a stink
[00:00]	:	And for your amusement: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19558
[00:00]	:	[#VWR-19558] FJ and Howard are Women
[00:00]	:	well, I was unaware of that JIRA and that's not code I know
[00:00]	:	hehe i would have assumed we would get one ;-), but yes we need to figure out a little more what we can put up info wise etc
[00:00]	:	however, since Maestro says it's viewer side, that means someone here could provide a patch :)
[00:00]	:	lol Ardy ㋡
[00:00]	:	Merov, would be lovely to have it fixed before Viewer 2.1 hits the download page.
[00:00]	:	I saw that one on Howard :)
[00:00]	 	giggles at -19558
[00:00]	:	I actually saw Howard with a female shape in one of our internal meetings :)
[00:00]	:	Yeah, shapes are failing to load more than usual lately
[00:00]	:	Merov, about 19558 i have observed on this when you work a new hair created in the inventory your usual look download after that..
[00:00]	:	worn*
[00:00]	:	Can i propose that we come up with some ideas for Tuesdays slot for SL7B info/layout etc
[00:00]	:	Eddi: add that as a comment to the JIRA so that the dev knows about it
[00:00]	:	we can bash some through now as well of cause ;-) but if anyone needs to think about things
[00:00]	:	BTW, 1.40 also enables http upload of assets... so I think it should also improve things with baking
[00:00]	:	I've started on trying to make a giant snowglobe
[00:00]	:	right, if the comment can help ㋡
[00:00]	:	Thickbrick started on one as well
[00:00]	:	but I'm a pretty seriously novice builder...
[00:00]	:	well, you have to start somewhere Oz
[00:00]	:	:)
[00:00]	:	I made a trinket but it has lots of prims.
[00:00]	:	I'm still a novice when it comes to building IW
[00:00]	:	yeah... building things is actually in my new-hire checklist
[00:00]	:	I know, that's about the extend of my skills (that plus my own bear...)
[00:00]	:	Hehe
[00:00]	:	I really lack the patience to build I need to admit
[00:00]	:	Ardy's is much better than mine
[00:00]	:	My idea was to make a transparent globe with the Snowglobe and SL logos rotating on the inside (and floating white specs of course), with a world map outline on the outside
[00:00]	:	having trouble with how transparency works though.
[00:00]	:	need to find a tutor on that
[00:00]	:	Cool Ardy
[00:00]	:	Open up the globe so you can apply a texture on the inside then close it up again
[00:00]	:	You need to make it hollow
[00:00]	:	comment added for now ㋡
[00:00]	:	checks Torley's video Oz: always my best resource for quick targetted tips on building
[00:00]	:	Then add the texture inside
[00:00]	 	wonders how the NDAed, nevertobementioned, *eshes will work with this kind of thing
[00:00]	:	texture inside... hadn't thought of that...
[00:00]	:	its how toon-shaded avatars get made
[00:00]	:	whohoo!
[00:00]	:	Of course you can just use 2 spheres, one inside the other
[00:00]	:	rotating cube! that's smart :)
[00:00]	:	nice work ardy ㋡
[00:00]	:	Merov, search your inventory for "Snowglobe".
[00:00]	:	It should be in there.
[00:00]	:	Ardy, can i have a copy as well please?
[00:00]	:	well, if I can get my glass outer sphere right, I'll get in touch with you guys for one of these cool things for the inside
[00:00]	:	anyone remember this character?
[00:00]	:	ty
[00:00]	:	Note the trick Ardy has used to put an outline around his globe
[00:00]	:	The inside out sphere was added by a friend.
[00:00]	:	He then gave the assembly back to me to share.
[00:00]	:	neat really
[00:00]	:	it looks pretty good - I think it conveys the 3d intent of the logo
[00:00]	:	We are also going to need some nice "slides" with info about snowglobe etc.. and a nice way to display these
[00:00]	:	You might want to have something to click on that will take you to the downloads page
[00:00]	:	i started some back in my opensource park, which i believe Oz walked through the other day, but the snowglobe content is not great on my display and needs changing
[00:00]	:	yes Jonathan and also a click to join group thing
[00:00]	:	Take a copy
[00:00]	:	done
[00:00]	:	I did - I want to talk with you about expanding your park
[00:00]	:	great concept
[00:00]	:	thanks
[00:00]	 	wonders if there's an easy way to add a "cross-hatch" reflection to give it the feel of depth
[00:00]	:	Robin: may be start a thread on opensource-dev, there are lots of creative folks lurking in there with ideas
[00:00]	:	How about a shadow Ardy?
[00:00]	:	sure, i've got one other person who wants to help who is a designer, she did the groundwork and trees etc for my park
[00:00]	:	could tie both to the angle of the sun
[00:00]	:	Hm... feel free. I am not much of a creator.
[00:00]	:	try to get her here for Tuesday as well
[00:00]	:	cool
[00:00]	:	you need to get a copy of Dahlia Trimbles rotating tesseract to put in there instead of just a cube
[00:00]	:	about the organization, should we take turn to be on the booth?
[00:00]	:	i think so, but i suspect it will be more be there if you can
[00:00]	:	talk/presentation about Snowglobe?
[00:00]	:	do we know what times should be covered?
[00:00]	:	I won't be able to participate in the presentation as I have another to deal with so feel free to take any of my idea here that you may find useful.
[00:00]	:	certainly if i'm at work, i can idle there all day greeting etc
[00:00]	:	the 2010viewr-external branch is the same as viewer 2 just the source files right?
[00:00]	:	I will definitely be there, but not 24/7 :)
[00:00]	:	I've got a distressing amount of booth duty in my past
[00:00]	:	last time i remember i was in amsterdam for that ;-)
[00:00]	:	I have one of "The Seven Wonders of Second Life" to work on.
[00:00]	:	Wolfpup: viewer-external is the export of the live dev 2.0.2 viewer-public branch
[00:00]	:	When will it be? I'm away for most, maybe even all for June :-
[00:00]	:	I think that's what it was called. Got a shot note to show up from the people I work with.
[00:00]	:	i think the approach opensim used is fine, they had a nice stand, posters etc and just had someone there to talk to people, more of a meet and greet for them as eveyone was already "aware of them" but i think thats a good model
[00:00]	 	doing a time check
[00:00]	:	/agrees
[00:00]	 	has to pack up to catch a train
[00:00]	:	oops: 3 min to go and both Oz amd me have a hard stop at 3pm
[00:00]	:	Merov : jira is going nuts in irc <jira> [BUILD] Failed Build for trunk (3386) on Linux
[00:00]	:	aaagh
[00:00]	:	bye all
[00:00]	:	and Darwin
[00:00]	:	By Oz thanks!
[00:00]	:	bye bye Oz ㋡
[00:00]	:	have a great weekend ㋡
[00:00]	 	sees the log
[00:00]	:	ok, I'll work on that ASAP :/
[00:00]	:	Merov, about SNOW-77, do you intend to review it for 1.x?
[00:00]	:	Thickbrick: yes
[00:00]	:	will do
[00:00]	:	thanks!
[00:00]	:	c u guys!
 
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