Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.10.26

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Ardy Lay 	Barrington DeSantis
Dahlia Trimble 	Jane1 Bookmite 	Jonathan Yap
Kennylex Luckless	Lucia Nightfire 	Motor Loon
Nalates Urriah 	Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
SonicAnd Miles 	TankMaster Finesmith	Theresa Tennyson
Tiberious Neruda 	Toysoldier Thor 	
== Transcript ==
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: hello all
[16:01] Nalates Urriah: Hey Toy
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: I will only get to stay for part of the meeting - a major concert starting right now as well
[16:01] Kennylex Luckless: Andrew... Go fix Internet, it not work for me :-)
[16:01] Toysoldier Thor: PS - if u Lindens want to possible witness one of many busy sim crashes.... u might witness one this hour if u came
[16:02] Simon Linden: Have you tried unplugging everything, offering sacrifices, and plugging it back in?
[16:02] Barrington DeSantis: Sod....and rl calls.
[16:02] Toysoldier Thor: there is 43 there now and will likely end up being about 70
[16:02] Andrew Linden: Ok I'll get right on that Kennylex.
[16:02] Ardy Lay: Cleaning optical fiber connectors by licking them is not productive.
[16:02] Kennylex Luckless: Yes, I did unplug internet, but then it was even harder to surf.
[16:03] Andrew Linden: Starting with trying to make some small improvement to the SL interestlist.
[16:03] Ardy Lay: Andrew, does that mean I will need to fill in my interests in my profile to see anything?
[16:04] Andrew Linden: So, my code is still up on the aditi grid (Ahern) and you can see it not working there.
[16:04] Motor Loon: lols
[16:04] Andrew Linden: Although, it is working a little better this week.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: There is a bug where some linked sets don't all show up... missing child prims.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: I'm working on that one now.
[16:05] Motor Loon: putting linkset pictures on milkcartons?
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Yesterday I had a bug... sim performance for a crowd of 32 avatars went bad... by about 1000%.
[16:05] Andrew Linden: I fixed that one this morning.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Originally I was hoping to actually make performance improvements.
[16:06] Ardy Lay: Some would say that happens on the main channel on Agni.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: Now I'd just be happy to reach performance parity, but with cleaner code.
[16:06] Andrew Linden: I'm partly joking, but only partly.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: Some benchmarks... yeah parity would be nice.
[16:08] Theresa Tennyson: You could try putting it on Aditi-Morris this week - that probably gets the biggest crowds.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: Anyway, that is what I'm working on, and I'm making some progress.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: Yeah, not until I've killed the known bugs.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: However, whenever I enter this region, the floor of this house is one of the last things to load.
[16:08] Toysoldier Thor: put it on the help / welcome sims
[16:08] Toysoldier Thor: ;)
[16:08] Simon Linden: sorry, brb, need to look at a bug
[16:09] Andrew Linden: I'm hoping to improve the sorting somewhat.
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Bummer, I was going to have Simon talk about pending updates and kick back for a few min...
[16:10] Andrew Linden: ok, so what is getting updated? I'll look for info in my email.
[16:10] Simon Linden: ... back
[16:10] Simon Linden: I can discuss the rollouts and rollbacks
[16:10] Andrew Linden: Go ahead Simon.
[16:11] Simon Linden: On Wednesday things didn't go smoothly as we rolled a maintenace update out
[16:11] Simon Linden: It turns out there was a slight change to the behavior for llSensor(), and it no longer returned objects sorted by distance
[16:12] Simon Linden: As a result, some SL pets had trouble finding their food, and some, umm, partners to make other SL pets
[16:12] Simon Linden: So that was rolled back
[16:12] Dahlia Trimble: OMG no food or love :(
[16:12] Simon Linden: It was sad, indeed
[16:12] SonicAnd Miles: if im in that pic it will be L$500 lol -jk
[16:13] Kennylex Luckless: YES, starving horses!
[16:13] Simon Linden: However, the large group work Baker did had some people eager to try it out
[16:13] Simon Linden: So we set up a few regions running that
[16:13] Lucia Nightfire: it also affected combat apps, defense apps and security apps too
[16:13] Rex Cronon: greetings:) oops. almost forgot to come:)
[16:13] Lucia Nightfire: but it was first brought to attn with the breedables
[16:13] Simon Linden: yeah, it was a bad change
[16:14] Simon Linden: If you open up the Map window and search for "Snack" you'll find 4 sandboxes with that new code
[16:14] Theresa Tennyson: They look like HUGE blondie-brownies.
[16:15] Simon Linden: I'll defer all questions like that to Oskar
[16:15] Simon Linden: I guess that wasn't a question, but I think they're his
[16:16] Simon Linden: That has been good, however, as we found that some of the operations people would then do on large groups were causing trouble
[16:16] Simon Linden: Kelly and I spent most of today fixing those
[16:16] Simon Linden: It's scheduled for another try at an RC channel next Wednesday
[16:16] Simon Linden: The sensor problem has been fixed
[16:17] Andrew Linden: hrm... there seems to be a texture problem with the map generator
[16:17] Simon Linden: The code that's on LeTigre now will get another update with some fixes too
[16:17] Motor Loon: oh joy
[16:17] Simon Linden: There isn't a 3rd version ready
[16:18] Simon Linden: On Tuesday next week the code that's in BlueSteel and Magnum today is getting promoted to the main channel
[16:19] Simon Linden: That has no externally visible changes but has some system level adjustments
[16:19] Simon Linden: That's it for server release news
[16:19] Andrew Linden: Ok, I guess the table is open.
[16:20] Toysoldier Thor: ok Siman and Andres.... BUG 355.... any one lookin at the network issues on the sims
[16:21] Toysoldier Thor: keep racking up the evidence that the network layer on the sims or platform are staling out... and large event sims keep crashing or staling
[16:21] Simon Linden: I want to see the code that's going to RC next week get out there ... I think it has fixes for some of the conditions that get your regions messed up like that
[16:22] Rex Cronon: could it have something to do with region idiling?
[16:22] Andrew Linden: Which RC is that Simon? Magnum? or BlueSteel and LeTigre?
[16:22] Toysoldier Thor: i have someone watching the event right now with about 70 ppl at it now
[16:23] Simon Linden: It should go onto Magnum
[16:24] Lucia Nightfire: Has there been any progress on caps failing? I've had a particular region lose caps everyday for the past 5 days. In fact I just filed a ticket on it and Reed Linden just now got caps turned back on. I was told its a simulator host issue.
[16:24] Toysoldier Thor: CAP falling?
[16:24] Toysoldier Thor: IM cap?
[16:25] Lucia Nightfire: regions failign to grant capabilities
[16:25] Simon Linden: We've looked into it and there are a few different causes. The code that's rolling to the main grid next week has some work for one of those
[16:25] Andrew Linden: Magnum appears to be scheduled to pick up a maintenance project that has been in the works for a long time.
[16:25] Toysoldier Thor: ohh yes that problem
[16:25] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-498 <---for those who can read jira pages you can see what all is impacted as I reported it there
[16:26] Lucia Nightfire: the most notible is that prim return is impossibel for everyone
[16:26] Toysoldier Thor: yes i saw that last weekend - the owner of an art gallery sim could not return a prim to an out going artist
[16:27] Toysoldier Thor: the artist had to come and take it
[16:27] Andrew Linden: We'll see what happens on Magnum. We think we made an improvement there, but we know that not all modes are closed. We're still working on the various causes.
[16:27] Simon Linden: yeah, that's a lot of trouble
[16:27] Ardy Lay: I get annoyed when inventory cannot be dragged to the ground when HTTP Inventory is enabled but can when it is not.
[16:28] Ardy Lay: Is that this related?
[16:28] Lucia Nightfire: afaik, no
[16:28] Simon Linden: Hmm, I'm surprised there's a difference there
[16:29] Andrew Linden: Ardy, you mean when you disable HTTP inventory on your viewer the rez works, but it fails when you enable HTTP inventory?
[16:29] Theresa Tennyson: Sometimes with HTTP inventory it never stops "loading" even when all your items are accounted for.
[16:29] Toysoldier Thor: u can select that as an option?
[16:29] Ardy Lay: WHen the disallowed symbol shows up I disable HTTP Inventory then try again a short time later and it works.
[16:30] Ardy Lay: Andrew, yes.
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Ok, I _think_ that is related to failing CAPs, so we hope it will happen less often on Magnum after Wed's update.
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: Simon.... when could we get a response on the VLM development priority scheduling?
[16:32] Ardy Lay: Andrew, thanks.
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: are VLMs a 2013 planned development?
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: longer?
[16:32] Toysoldier Thor: shorter?
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: vlm?
[16:33] Simon Linden: I can't give you any predictions on that one, Toy. It's on a list of features that would be nice to have
[16:33] Andrew Linden: VLM = virtual landmarks
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: ah
[16:33] Toysoldier Thor: ohh i dont like hearing "nice to have"
[16:33] TankMaster Finesmith: just like large regions would be 'nice to have' ;)
[16:34] Toysoldier Thor: and when will LL figure out the failing notice Attachments problem... this is real annoying ... STILL
[16:34] Ardy Lay: Maybe, if we can't have larger regions we should make everything else smaller.
[16:34] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
[16:34] Simon Linden: It's much more possible (and a lot easier) than large regions
[16:35] Jonathan Yap: There are multiple issues with Attachments in notices -- I did an analysis of that about 2 years ago
[16:35] TankMaster Finesmith: scale everything down to 1/10 the current size :P
[16:35] Lucia Nightfire: micro cities
[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: i think LL is still trying to figure out if its a Sim or Viewer issue
[16:36] Jonathan Yap: Toysoldier -- it is both, but mostly a sim issue, made worse by viewer 2 changes
[16:36] Jonathan Yap: The real fix will need changes at both ends
[16:36] Toysoldier Thor: viewer 2? seems like it showed up with viewer 3
[16:37] TankMaster Finesmith: same thing
[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: ohh
[16:37] Jonathan Yap: no, it was always present, but viewer 2 made it worse
[16:37] Andrew Linden: what is the "failing notice attachment problem"?
[16:37] TankMaster Finesmith: 3.x was used just because they were almost out of 2.x #s to use
[16:37] Toysoldier Thor: well it seemed to explode in visibility this summer
[16:38] Toysoldier Thor: it should be a priority to fix
[16:38] Lucia Nightfire: I thought 3.3 started with mesh release
[16:38] Jonathan Yap: Andrew, you sign in, get a group notice with an attachment, try to get the attachement, and ... nothing
[16:38] Lucia Nightfire: *3.#
[16:38] Toysoldier Thor: before performance improvements
[16:38] Jonathan Yap: I think Kelly (or Simon?) looked into this a while ago and saw what was happening on the server
[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: its horrid Andrew! and u cant click on the attached in the group window either after the notice is not able to offer it to u
[16:39] Jonathan Yap: Part of the trouble are stale/expire session IDs
[16:39] Simon Linden: yeah, I seem to remember a problem with something timing out on those notices
[16:39] Toysoldier Thor: after being online for a while - the problem during the session seems to go away
[16:40] TankMaster Finesmith: after 1h of the GN displayed, the item is no longer avalible
[16:40] TankMaster Finesmith: and you have to reopen the GN to get to the item
[16:40] Jonathan Yap: Tank, that is the server expiring the session ID
[16:40] Andrew Linden: Ok, I won't comment on that bug. I don't know much about what is going on there.
[16:40] Toysoldier Thor: but terrible for club and concert venue hosts and store owners ... trying to send out LMs or notecards for something happening live
[16:41] TankMaster Finesmith: i know, thats what simon was thinking of i think
[16:41] Jonathan Yap: I think if a region crashes the session ID is lost, too, so it might be < 1 hr
[16:41] Toysoldier Thor: and the UI knows the attachment is not available since it shades out the buttons
[16:41] Jonathan Yap: There are viewer UI issues as well
[16:42] Nalates Urriah: I hate all the semi-dead LM's and Attachments I cannot open just after login...
[16:42] Toysoldier Thor: agreed Nal.. I have to just delete them and then use the SEARCH to find where the LM is
[16:42] Rex Cronon: how can landmark be semi-dead?
[16:42] Rex Cronon: landmarks*
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: because as an attachment - it cannot be clicked on
[16:43] Jonathan Yap: You can go to the group notices panel and get them that way, but that is pretty tedious
[16:43] Ardy Lay: Send SLURLs in the notices? I hate all that landmark clutter building up in inventory.
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: its in the notice or the group info but unusable
[16:43] Nalates Urriah: Rex, It won't open when clicked on... but in some cases will go into inventory. It can be clicked in inventory and then it works.
[16:43] Simon Linden: It's a matter of linking up what's in the notice back to the actual landmark
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: i have a solution for that Ardy..... VLM s !!!
[16:43] Toysoldier Thor: lol
[16:43] Ardy Lay: Nope
[16:43] Ardy Lay: THose look like they will pile up too.
[16:44] Rex Cronon: they need an expiration date:)
[16:44] Jonathan Yap: And the fact that the viewer now records notices, so they are there when you log in again, only makes it worse
[16:44] Ardy Lay: Rex, I might get one I want to keep.
[16:45] Toysoldier Thor: ok well i wanna catch 15 minutes of this show.....
[16:45] Toysoldier Thor: later all....
[16:45] Rex Cronon: ok we need a temp folder, everything in it gets deleted if it gets older than one week. if u want to keep something u move to different folder
[16:46] Rex Cronon: tc
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: PS simon - if someone at LL can update JIRA BUG 355
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: it would be nice
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: have a good weekend all
[16:46] Simon Linden: What do you want added? That we think the next code will help?
[16:46] Ardy Lay: Rex, I just rarely click the attachments so hadn't noticed the bug.
[16:46] Nalates Urriah: bye Toy
[16:46] Toysoldier Thor: bye Nal !:)
[16:48] Ardy Lay: I could have "updated" it but, yeah, what to put there?
[16:48] Lucia Nightfire: On the release notes theres this: "Thanks to a newly added capability the simulator can now report information about script permissions granted to objects within a region. A future viewer update will use this. " Can you elaborate on what all this entails?
[16:49] Lucia Nightfire: Release notes for Magnum
[16:50] Simon Linden: ah, yeah, that's pretty nice ... there's a new window that lists objects in the region that have been granted permissions by you
[16:50] Simon Linden: So you can find anything that has animate permissions, for example
[16:50] Andrew Linden: So that window is sitting in some beta viewer Simon?
[16:50] Jonathan Yap: Is there going to be a corresponding "revoke permission" control?
[16:51] Simon Linden: It's not in a beta viewer yet, but it's in the backlog of changes we have waiting for the current beta to get out the door
[16:51] Lucia Nightfire: and a possible block permissions from owner, sort of like a mute for any future granted permissions handling?
[16:52] Lucia Nightfire: that basically will shine for perms grabbers, heh
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: You should already be able to block the object
[16:52] Simon Linden: Yes, there will be a "revoke" button
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: \o/ Simon, wonderful news
[16:52] Simon Linden: It doesn't block anything - it will just tell you what you've granted permissions to
[16:52] Lucia Nightfire: I mean a hands off, automatic approach, not having to do it for every object the owner rezzes, such as with perms grabbers
[16:53] Jonathan Yap: I think if you block the owner you also block those messages
[16:53] Lucia Nightfire: I could though be out of the loop on how revoke recently works as I haven't had to ue it ever afaik
[16:53] Lucia Nightfire: *use
[16:53] Rex Cronon: can we also have a lsl function that gets this list:)
[16:53] Tiberious Neruda: what about blocked avatars and getting group invites through?
[16:53] Simon Linden: That has nothign to do with script permissions
[16:54] Tiberious Neruda: you can mute avs, but they'll still be able to send you group invites (like bots are commonly used for)
[16:54] Rex Cronon: maybe somebody wants to retaliate against those that steal their perms:)
[16:54] Rex Cronon: automatically:)
[16:55] Ardy Lay: Chart went nuts
[16:55] Jonathan Yap: Tiberious, I thought I had fixed that one....maybe not, or maybe it is stalled at the approval stage
[16:55] Rex Cronon: although somebody might endup shooting simon if one of his chairs doesn't release the anim perms;)
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Simon Linden: Interesting - it did. That thing has been running for ages
[16:56] Ardy Lay: It could have been accurate. I don't know.
[16:56] Ardy Lay: I just thought it looks like it went nuts.
[16:57] Theresa Tennyson: It felt like I was frozen for a second.
[16:59] Andrew Linden: That was real sim lag that the chart was noticing.
[16:59] Andrew Linden: I didn't see an obvious cause. I'll have to dig into the logs for more clues.
[17:00] Simon Linden: That chart looks so much better when I let it draw more particles
[17:00] Andrew Linden: I've fallen behind on posting the transcripts to the simulator user group.
[17:00] Andrew Linden: I'm going to try to update the transcripts after this one.
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:01] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Simon and Andrew
[17:01] Rex Cronon: u need a script to do it andrew
[17:01] TankMaster Finesmith: thx for your time, simon and andrew
[17:01] Andrew Linden: yeah, I have a script that does some of the work
[17:01] Andrew Linden: but I need to make the script better.
[17:01] Theresa Tennyson: See everyone later!
[17:01] Nalates Urriah: THx Lindens
[17:01] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[17:01] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good chat
[17:02] Jane1 Bookmite: thanks Simon !
[17:02] Rex Cronon: tc andrew simon
[17:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day:)
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: No, go fix Internet so I can post images :-D
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: now.
[17:02] Kennylex Luckless: :-)
[17:02] SonicAnd Miles: cya everyone :)
Simulator_User_Group
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