nyuuzyou/wikis huggingface dataset:
Minutes/2020-06-12

Present: RL, JE, TM, Todd M. McComb (TMM)
==B8MB history==
Todd M. McComb, one of the original founders of the Big-8 Management Board, was invited to the meeting so that we could get acquainted. TMM explained that the Board was created due to widespread fraud and other disruption in voting on new groups, and out of a desire to move to a model that appeared more accountable to the public. The Board worked well for about a decade until it fizzled out. However, TMM and Russ Allbery have continued to keep the basic machinery running, and have occasionally exercised it in lieu of the Board for non-controversial issues.
==Signing key==
TM and JE raised the issue of the Board's signing key (notably, the current key is old and weak and does not work with newer versions of GnuPG, which makes it impossible for admins to validate the current group list and other signed communications). TMM agreed to get in touch with Russ to discuss migrating to a new key. They will keep us apprised. In the meantime, they are happy to handle technical requests from us (such as changing moderators), which don't require the key.
==Defunct groups==
JE enquired about groups without active moderators and TMM promised to send us a list. He can delete such groups, but that requires the key.
TMM left the meeting at this point.
==Wiki==
TM reported that he had downloaded the 700 GB albasani.net disk image. Disk recovery tools recognize partitions on it, as well as filenames that seem to be backups of the B8MB wiki. However, it remains to be seen whether it is possible to recover these partitions and files.
==STUMP==
RL said that he has been looking into (Web)STUMP and has been documenting what is needed to install and run it. It was necessary to modify the source code to get it running properly, but he now has a mostly working local installation. As the code is released under the GPL, we could release our modified versions so that others can benefit, though if Igor Chudov is still interested in maintaining the official version, it may be better to submit our changes to him. RL to get in touch with STUMP author Igor Chudov to ask about this, and to report to him problems with the STUMP website (e.g., the mailing list and WebSTUMP demo seem to be broken). RL will also produce documentation on how to install and configure STUMP for the benefit of the rest of us and possibly the public at large.
==Misc==
JE reported that he has been writing some public tutorials on how to get started with text newsgroups, and will maybe also record some videos.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-06-19

Present: TM, RL, JE
==Wiki==
TM reported that he was able to recover the Big-8 MediaWiki 1.18.4 database from Roman Racine's corrupted disk image and import it into a modern, local installation of MediaWiki. The database had been backed up on 15 May 2020, but the last significant edits to the wiki are from 4 April 2013. By contrast, Kathy Morgan's static mirror has 17 pages modified after that date, so it will be necessary to manually compare those changed pages and reapply the changes to our own copy. (It's possible that there are further pages in the private area that were edited after 4 April 2013, though as Kathy's mirror doesn't include these, those edits will have been lost permanently.) TM will start preparing the wiki for deployment to our production server (for example, by disabling the old user accounts and creating new ones for the new Board members). JE will ensure that the production server will be able to serve the new wiki via HTTPS and let TM know when it's ready.
==Evangelism==
JE has been spreading word about Usenet. He has organized a public chat tonight for Usenet newbies on IRC. This has been advertised on , Reddit, and Twitter. TM and RL may attend as well, time permitting.
==Group list==
TM has been received messages about the group list and distribution policies from Bill Horne. He will forward these on to the rest of the Board.
==INN and STUMP==
RL and JE have been continuing to familiarize themselves with INN. RL wrote to Igor Chudov regarding the issues discussed at the last Board meeting but has yet to receive a response.
==Future meetings==
TM reported that he will be able to make next week's meeting after all, as the conflicting appointment has been rescheduled.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-06-26

Present: TM, RL, JE
==Wiki==
TM reported that has prepared the Big-8 wiki on a staging server and was in the process of transferring it to our production server.
==Evangelism==
JE reported on the meeting on IRC last week, which was also attended by TM and drew a number of interested new users. JE also reported that he posted a new tutorial on how to get started with Usenet using Thunderbird. He has another tutorial in the works on filtering spam with Thunderbird. He will put them on the Big-8 wiki once it's up. He also plans to record these as videos. TM said we should look at publicizing the Board's relaunch in more journalistic venues once the rest of our technical infrastructure is up and running.
==STUMP==
RL has had no response from Igor Chudov, but has sent a follow-up. RL will try calling Chudov's business number if there is still no response.
==Future meetings==
TM gave apologies for next meeting.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-07-03

Present: JE, RL
Apologies: TM
== STUMP and ReadySTUMP ==
RL reports that he has still heard nothing from Igor Chudov regarding STUMP and his ReadySTUMP moderation hosting platform, and has emailed the Board with his findings about the moderated groups that are known to have used STUMP and ReadySTUMP.
JE reported that he knows the moderator of rec.radio.amateur.moderated, which is one of the remaining active newsgroups using STUMP. The moderator is Paul Schleck, and he has been responsive and helpful in the past. JE suggests that before trying to contact Igor Chudov via offline channels, we should ask Paul and Kathy about their STUMP setup, as they are definitely reachable. RL will do this.
JE and RL will both investigate the procedure for setting up new moderated groups, and how to start anew for groups that have missing moderators, have no access to their moderation platforms, or no longer have their PGP signing keys.
== B8MB Wiki ==
JE reported that he has run a broken link detector on the B8MB wiki, and has updated any links that were not working.
== Promoting Usenet ==
JE proposed holding another chat session to promote Usenet, using IRC or another service such as Discord.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-07-10

Present: TM, RL, JE
==STUMP==
RL got in touch with Paul Schleck, a former Board member who is happy to work with us on STUMP.
JE gave a presentation on the exact mechanism of moderated groups. We need further details on how moderated messages are signed. We also don't know how the ISC's moderation relay is kept up to date. JE will ask Todd and Russ about this.
RL reported that the latest release of STUMP from Igor Chudov's web page is version 2.4, whereas the Board's Panix account seems to be running version 2.5. RL to find out what the latest version of STUMP actually is and to ask Paul about running STUMP. If necessary, RL will also phone Igor regarding contributions to (or taking over) the STUMP source repository.
It was also agreed to test the moderation software by announcing RL's accession to the Board on n.a.n., but to wait until after the next meeting so that the STUMP issues can be resolved.
==Wiki==
TM reported that he's imported all the changes from Kathy's static version of the wiki, plus a number of past communications from the Board on n.a.n. that weren't archived on any copy of the wiki.
JE reported that he's fixed broken links on the wiki with the help of a link checker.
TM reported that he will apply a new theme so that our wiki doesn't look like a generic MediaWiki installation.
TM proposed moving the Board's minutes to move to a public part of Wiki, once RL and JE verify that the past minutes don't contain any sensitive information.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-07-17

Present: TM, RL, JE
==Moderated groups==
JE reported on correspondence from Kathy Morgan, Russ Allbery, and Todd M. McComb:
* Changing the moderator of a group is technically easy, though finding a new moderator with the requisite technical skills and infrastructure can be hard.
* Moderated messages don't typically contain any anti-forging measures. Generating and verifying signed headers (via PGPMoose) is possible but not common. Most news servers simply reject new posts with Approved: headers except from trusted users, and historically this seems to have been sufficient.
RL reported that for the Board's own n.a.n. group, followup headers are automatically set. It was agreed to test this by posting a message announcing RL's accession to the board. JE to draft and internally circulate the announcement message. RL to respond to Paul Schleck regarding authentication for the Board members' WebSTUMP accounts on Panix.
==STUMP==
RL finally heard back from Igor Chudov, who says he is happy to remain maintainer of STUMP, or for us to take over, as we see fit. The Board generally agreed that moving the STUMP source code and documentation to a modern, collaborative source hosting system would be better for all users of STUMP, including the Board. It was agreed that RL would contact Igor with a view to getting a copy of his source control repository, or at least previous source releases of STUMP. We can then convert this to a Git repository, place this on a hosting system (GitHub, GitLab, etc.) and ask Igor to bless it as the new official home of STUMP.
==Wiki==
TM reported that he was still in the process of testing/adapting a new skin.
RL to add a user page for himself in advance of the above-noted n.a.n. announcement.
JE reported that he will be updating the wiki with the above-noted information on moderation, and with a new page on the Board's current projects.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-07-24

Present: RL, JE, TM
==Wiki and website==
TM has created a new design for the wiki and reorganized the front page, and applied this to the production server. RL has created a user page for himself.
JE has fixed an issue with SSL certificate provisioning for the website. The renewal should work fully automatically from now on.
JE will be posting a new tutorial to the wiki. TM to enable uploads of ODP and PDF files.
==STUMP==
RL reported that Paul Schleck has set up WebSTUMP access for us. As planned, JE posted to n.a.n. the announcement of RL's accession to the board. STUMP successfully notified the Board of the pending message by e-mail, and JE successfully used WebSTUMP to approve it.
RL reported that he is still waiting for response from Igor Chudov regarding the (Web)STUMP sources.
==Publicity==
JE asked if the Board is still interested in drawing journalists' attention to the reconstituted Board and its work/plans. TM said that with the new website in place, the only remaining issue is making sure we have verified that our technical processes and infrastructure is working as expected. The post to n.a.n. was part of this, but we should also do trial runs of some other housekeeping activities. It was agreed that we would next work on changing the moderator of , since the current moderator has confirmed to us that he no longer has access to the moderation account. RL to consult with Paul Schleck on getting moderated by the Board as an interim measure. JE to locate the group's charter.
JE reported that he has submitted proposals for introductory talks on Usenet and the Board's work to the 2020 openSUSE + LibreOffice Virtual Conference and to a local technical conference in Prague. He is expecting to receive the rejection/acceptance notification soon. He agreed to share his slides and speaking notes in case other Board members want to give similar presentations at future events.
== New group proposal ==
JE mooted the idea of a new newsgroup devoted to Internet history—possibly or . TM and RL encouraged him to gauge public interest and possibly follow through with a formal RfD.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-07-31

Present: TM, RL, JE
== Wiki ==
TM has moved the archive of meeting minutes to the public part of wiki: Meeting minutes. It was agreed to post subsequent minutes there from now on. Rather than embargo the minutes until they are reviewed, it was agreed that each Board meeting would conclude with a short discussion of whether anything that had been discussed should not be publically minuted due to security or privacy concerns.
JE reported that he has posted a second tutorial, on Filtering Spam with Thunderbird‎. The meeting discussed possible ideas for future tutorials, including netiquette, INN, and how to find active newsgroups.
== STUMP ==
RL reported that Igor Chudov had responded with his consent to our hosting STUMP on GitHub. He did not specify whether there is an existing source control repository or archived released that we could import; RL has sent a follow-up query. It was agreed to wait for a response before we upload anything to GitHub. In the meantime RL has set up a GitHub organization for the Board, which we can also use for documentation and other projects. RL and JE to get a "verified" badge for the account, which entails us (temporarily) adding a DNS record to big-8.org.
At the previous meeting it had been agreed to place under interim management by the Board due to the current moderator's having lost access to their moderation account. This will also serve as a test run of the relevant procedures. Paul Schleck sent RL a README file explaining how our .procmailrc file works, which RL will distribute. We can then set up a STUMP system, get Russ or Todd to notify ISC about the new moderator address, and possibly recruit a new moderator per the procedure described at Moderator Vacancy Investigations.
== Publicity ==
A Media Contacts page has been created and populated by JE and TM. At some point in the future we could reach out to these contacts to announce the reconstitution of the Board and our availability to speak in support of the preservation and revitalization of the Big 8 in particular and Usenet in general. JE and TM to investigate best practices for writing a press release to accompany such an announcement.
== Admin ==
JE raised the issue of the possible overlap between (moderated, but with no postings other than automated messages) and (unmoderated, but with very little traffic). TM said some past Board member (Kathy?) may have already approached us about this. JE to investigate the purpose and history of the groups and find out who moderates the former.
TM mentioned that now that we are getting essential technical infrastructure and procedures back up and running, we should give some thought to the internal administrative ones (Board elections, etc.). For the moment we should consider the internal procedures and rules to be suspended, but only because we haven't had a chance to review them in detail. As part of his work to clean up the wiki, TM will examine the internal policies and present them in small batches to subsequent meetings so that they can be formally amended, adopted, repealed, or superseded.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-08-07

Present: TM, RL, JE
== STUMP ==
RL reported that our GitHub account has been verified.
RL reported that Igor Chudov hasn't said whether there's an archive of previous versions or a source code repository, but said that he is happy for us to take over maintenance of the project and to migrate it to GitHub, provided he is listed as the author given access.
TM has imported the code for STUMP 2.4 and 2.5 and WebSTUMP 2.0 into GitHub repositories (STUMP and WebSTUMP) and posted (and solved) some issues. RL to update the code to get it working with modern versions of Perl. TM and JE to import and convert the documentation from the STUMP website.
TM has discovered that STUMP and WebSTUMP are listed as official GNU packages, though no mention of this is made in the STUMP and WebSTUMP source and documentation, and the packages look nothing like GNU packages. If STUMP and WebSTUMP really are GNU packages, then our takeover will probably require the blessing of GNU and this will affect our development plans (where to host the code, how to format the code and documentation, etc.). Alternatively, we could fork the project. TM to write to GNU to get their side of the story.
JE reported that Kathy Morgan has confirmed that she's the moderator of both and but no longer has access to Usenet, so we can decide what to do about these groups.
== Misc ==
JE has been in touch with David Lawrence, author of Managing Usenet. He was a pre-Board member and moderator of .
== Admin ==
TM suggested posting an official announcement to about the Board's new website and the availability of our meeting minutes. TM to prepare and circulate a draft for adoption by the rest the Board.
== Wiki ==
TM reported no progress yet on the survey of Board policies.
JE reported that he is working on a netiquette guide (in short and expanded versions).
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-08-14

Present: TM, RL, JE
== Admin ==
The meeting adopted TM's draft announcement for about the Board's new website and the availability of our meeting minutes. TM to post the announcement.
== STUMP ==
Owen Rees posted an article on indicating that he had been independently fixing the (Web)STUMP instances used for the uk.* hierarchy and inquiring about the Board's GitHub repositories. JE and TM had replied explaining the situation and inviting him to collaborate with us once we had settled things with GNU.
TM reported that John Darrington of GNU has confirmed that STUMP and WebSTUMP are GNU packages, that if the Board members wish to take over maintenance, this should be done in individual capacities, and that the packages would need to be hosted somewhere that met GNU's criteria (though maintaining mirrors elsewhere would be acceptable). TM to tell GNU that we (i.e., TM, JE, and RL as individuals) are willing and able to take over maintenance and that we will move the primary hosting to Savannah. TM already has a Savannah account; JE and RL to create accounts of their own and inform TM of the usernames. RL to set up the packages on Savannah once TM gets final confirmation from GNU that we have been accepted as maintainers. Thereafter we will need to work on bringing the packages into compliance with the GNU guidelines.
The Board received an e-mail from Jonathan Kamens indicating that the DNS for ngp.big-8.org is no longer a CNAME for email.kamens.us, with the result that submissions to are failing. JE has fixed this and will try to find out Jonathan Kamens and not the Board are hosting the moderation software for this group.
JE reported on some discrepancies between the list of moderated newsgroups we received from Todd M. McComb and the canonical list of newsgroups from ISC. Resolving these discrepancies is a prerequisite for any future removal of dead groups. JE to ask Todd/ISC about this, and for a full list of moderator addresses. JE to find a list of newsgroup charters.
Regarding our plans to take over moderation of , RL to ask Paul Schleck to take a look at our procmailrc for adding a new robomoderator instance.
TM raised the question of whether we need to continue hosting our moderation software on Panix. RL observed that Panix seems to support Usenet very well. It was agreed to revisit the matter only if it turns out that we need to pay for extra moderation accounts.
== Wiki ==
JE is continuing work on his netiquette tutorial with the help of past RFCs and primers.
TM reported no progress yet on the survey of Board policies due to ongoing work on STUMP.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-08-21

Present: TM, RL, JE
== STUMP ==
TM reported that GNU has officially appointed the individual Board members (TM, RL, and JE) as maintainers of STUMP and WebSTUMP. We can now submit the packages to Savannah, though the submission form lists certain requirements that the packages currently don't fulfill. TM to try submitting the packages to Savannah anyway with a note that we're addressing the outstanding issues as a matter of priority but would like the packages on Savannah first so that we can do this work with the benefit of their source control and issue tracking facilities.
RL has configured .procmailrc for moderating and set up an instance of the STUMP back end. However, we can't set up the e-mail aliases required on Panix ourselves. Paul Schleck was concerned that Panix might object to this on the grounds that moderating is not within the Board's remit and that they don't want to have to deal with the fallout of any unpopular moderation decisions. RL to approach Panix about getting an alias, and if they object, to explain that we're doing this only (1) to get experience with changing moderators, and (2) as a temporary measure while we look for a new moderator.
RL noticed that approved posts to and are being signed with keys other than those listed in our .plan file. Paul agreed that this must be a longstanding misconfiguration on our server. TM suggested that this may be leading to some news servers not propagating the approved articles. RL to fix the configuration.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-08-28

Present: TM, RL, JE
== STUMP ==
TM reported that he made the minimal set of changes to STUMP and WebSTUMP necessary to check all the confirmation boxes on the Savannah submission forms (mostly relating to the presence of copyright and licence notices), and has now submitted the packages to Savannah. The packages are currently under review by the Savannah moderators. TM had to remove the STUMP documentation from the submission because it was not clear how it was licensed; RL to write to Igor Chudov to clarify this and to inform him that the packages will be maintained on Savannah rather than GitHub.
RL used the Panix account to mail Panix Support regarding a moderation account for but has yet to receive a response. RL also temporarily modified our .procmailrc on Panix as didn't appear to allow for any replies from Panix Support.
RL reported that he hasn't yet fixed the and signing key configuration but will do so this weekend.
== Infrastructure ==
JE reported that the Big-8 mail server needs to be patched and so it may be briefly unavailable.
== Moderation ==
JE reported that Russ is working on deploying a new signing key for our control messages. How best to distribute the key is still to be decided. Once the new key is ready for use, the Board should make an official announcement about it.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020
Minutes/2020-09-04

Present: TM, RL, JE
== STUMP ==
TM reported that the Savannah admins want copyright headers on certain text files in the distribution. In theory these could be covered by the blanket GPL licence for the package, but applying the GPL to non-source files doesn't make sense, and so it was agreed to wait to get an answer from Igor Chudov on whether we can licence the documentation under CC BY. RL to write to Igor Chudov to specifically suggest this licence for the documentation.
RL reported that he has fixed the signing key configuration for and .
RL reported that Panix will charge for additional accounts, but that we can create unlimited free aliases for use with moderation accounts. RL has created such an alias but is still in the process of configuring WebSTUMP to use it. RL to document this process eventually.
Category:Meeting minutes for 2020