Commerce Office Hours/2009-09-11

* [2009/09/11 8:01] Pink Linden: Hi everyone
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Grant Linden: hello Siz the fireman
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Suella Ember: is that 1am for you Rya?
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Jarnz Dench: hello :) and sorry we TPed into someone's pond :/
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Margo Sciarri: Hello
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Grant Linden: morning Pink!
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Maia Gasparini: Siz must be here to strip
* [2009/09/11 8:01] Maia Gasparini: Hiya Pink
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Suella Ember: Hey Pink :)
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Jarnz Dench: yeah it's 1am here, best of the 3 meeting times
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Siz Linden: good morning
* [2009/09/11 8:02] George Linden: Heya!
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Suella Ember: darn time zones!
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Pink Linden: ouch thanks Jarnz
* [2009/09/11 8:02] Suella Ember: man! i so want to keep Pink as my pet now i've seen her! hehehehe
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Grant Linden: Hellllo Colossus
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Pink Linden: Hello Maia, Rya, tigermoon!
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Colossus Linden: Hello Grant
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Rya Nitely: hello
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Maia Gasparini: Hiya :D
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Pink Linden: good morning grant, colossus, george, thanks for waking up so early here in california. 
* [2009/09/11 8:03] Grant Linden: drinks his coffee
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Pink Linden: oops hi siz didn't see you there
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Siz Linden: good morning
* [2009/09/11 8:04] George Linden: Happy to be here 
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Colossus Linden: Hello all. I'll do my best not to nod off durin47 0dddddt777777777777770 [
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Colossus Linden: :)
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Pink Linden: Well since it's a little after our start time, I'll get us going
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Pink Linden: thanks everyone for taking time out of your day and night to come and talk with us!
* [2009/09/11 8:04] Suella Ember: thanks for having us :)
* [2009/09/11 8:05] Pink Linden: the topic for this meeting is the updated listing guidelines
* [2009/09/11 8:05] Pink Linden: one thing before we begin, we cannot pre approve individual listings or items. But other than that the floor is wide open!
* [2009/09/11 8:05] Pink Linden: so who would like to go first?
* [2009/09/11 8:06] Suella Ember: i have one question ... well comment really
* [2009/09/11 8:06] Pink Linden: go for it Suella!
* [2009/09/11 8:06] Suella Ember: i'm pretty much all for the new guidleines ... my one concern is with the not listing different colors because it scews the search resuilts ....
* [2009/09/11 8:06] Suella Ember: i can totally see the logic .....
* [2009/09/11 8:07] Suella Ember: but it would be nice to have a way for a shoopper to easily see alternate colors - a drop down list or somthing on a listing maybe?
* [2009/09/11 8:07] Pink Linden: Suella, that's a totally reasonable request
* [2009/09/11 8:07] Pink Linden: and we want that too because weeding through multiple listings of the same item isn't a great experience for the buyer
* [2009/09/11 8:08] Maia Gasparini: that would certainly be a function to look forward to
* [2009/09/11 8:08] Pink Linden: but since our technology doesn't allow for this *at present* we didn't want to restrict merchants from listing multiple items
* [2009/09/11 8:08] Pink Linden: that would have been unfair
* [2009/09/11 8:08] Suella Ember: excellent. i was hoping you'd say that :) there are other ways when listing i guess - like having thumbnail images that ppl can click for other colors. Buty some integrated way of doing it would be great
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Pink Linden: I think every linden here would agree with you
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Pink Linden: +1 Suella
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Pink Linden: Grant here is going to be working on a redesign of our site
* [2009/09/11 8:09] George Linden: 
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Pink Linden: and he has this on his list
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Suella Ember: cool! i'm happy now :) lol
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Pink Linden: right grant? 
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Colossus Linden: Much agreed Suella
* [2009/09/11 8:09] Grant Linden: I have looked at different displays of relating items by color as well as permissions and other realted features
* [2009/09/11 8:10] Grant Linden: there are some good examples on other retail sites
* [2009/09/11 8:10] Grant Linden: but if anyone sees good examples please forward them to me
* [2009/09/11 8:10] Suella Ember: cool - well, i know you guys are obviously looking into it then so thats good enough for me :) I look out for ways other people do it and let you know if i see anything Grant
* [2009/09/11 8:11] Pink Linden: Thanks Suella!
* [2009/09/11 8:11] Grant Linden: thank you!
* [2009/09/11 8:11] Pink Linden: the floor is open for more questions....
* [2009/09/11 8:11] Pink Linden: 
* [2009/09/11 8:12] Maia Gasparini: Suella's topic has covered the query I had also.. no more questions from me :)
* [2009/09/11 8:12] Pink Linden: if no more questions on the topic I'll open the floor to other topics, knowing that we may have to go back if others join
* [2009/09/11 8:12] Suella Ember: wow - i was sure there would be lots of things people want4d to say about branding and such! lol
* [2009/09/11 8:13] Pink Linden: we had a group of about 20 or so yesterday
* [2009/09/11 8:13] Suella Ember: are you gonna release the chat logs from these sessions?
* [2009/09/11 8:13] Pink Linden: is that helpful?
* [2009/09/11 8:13] Pink Linden: we can if need be
* [2009/09/11 8:13] Suella Ember: might be - to see what was said at other sessions
* [2009/09/11 8:14] Pink Linden: sure we can do that.
* [2009/09/11 8:14] Suella Ember: cool - i would certainly appreciate that :)
* [2009/09/11 8:14] Suella Ember: in case someone said somethin gi didnt think of
* [2009/09/11 8:14] Pink Linden: I want us to do a regular office hour, would weekly be right or is bi weekly enough?
* [2009/09/11 8:15] Pink Linden: Rya, what do you think?
* [2009/09/11 8:15] Suella Ember: maybe do bi-weekly to start and see how it goes?
* [2009/09/11 8:15] Rya Nitely: I thought there was a move to have accredited sellers only in slx?
* [2009/09/11 8:16] Door: tigermoon: Swordthain is at the door.
* [2009/09/11 8:16] Rya Nitely: with identification
* [2009/09/11 8:16] Pink Linden: are you referring to the seller registry section in the roadmap?
* [2009/09/11 8:16] Rya Nitely: there was talk of it
* [2009/09/11 8:16] Pink Linden: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:17] Rya Nitely: thought it was in the new guidelines
* [2009/09/11 8:17] Suella Ember: ohhh - that is an interesting topic if we can talk about that :)
* [2009/09/11 8:17] Pink Linden: so here's the thing....it would never benefit us to only have a small group of merchants
* [2009/09/11 8:17] Pink Linden: but that said, we think there is room for some type of acknowledgement for merchants that is public
* [2009/09/11 8:18] Pink Linden: and reflects their standing in the community
* [2009/09/11 8:18] Pink Linden: what do you all think?
* [2009/09/11 8:18] Rya Nitely: sounds like a good idea, but alot of people use alts
* [2009/09/11 8:18] Pink Linden: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:18] Suella Ember: i like the idea in principle, providing its doesn't become a bit of a hierachy type thing and people assume if you are not "accridited" or whatever people think they shouldnt shop with you
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Suella Ember: accredited*
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Maia Gasparini: I guess as long as it's a scheme that alot of the smaller merchants as well as the major ones can participate in, then that would definitely have benefits
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Sassy Romano: hi
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Grant Linden: Welcome Sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Suella Ember: yup - exactly maia
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Maia Gasparini: Hi Sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Pink Linden: one example of the type of program I've seen is the eBay powerseller program, where status is based on feedback score
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Suella Ember: hey sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:19] Pink Linden: hi sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Pink Linden: thoughts on that?
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Suella Ember: ahhhh ok - i have a issue there! lol
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Suella Ember: feedback can be so easily gamed
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Pink Linden: say more suella....that's why we're here
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Maia Gasparini: Do you mean.. when you say feedback, linking it to ratings and reviews?
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Pink Linden: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Pink Linden: it's one idea...we will explore a number of options.
* [2009/09/11 8:20] Pink Linden: and we want your ideas and suggestions
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Jarnz Dench: no matter the program, anything could be gamed
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Maia Gasparini: Unfortunately there is certainly abuse of the review system at the moment, perhaps some changes would need to be made to that before such a plan could be implemented
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Suella Ember: at the moment there are definitely people who get alts and friends to give them good ratings etc, if we could somehow stop that i'd be all for it
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Suella Ember: then its fair
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Rya Nitely: I notice that freebies especially attract bad ratings
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Suella Ember: true Jarnz
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Rya Nitely: it's like a griefer thing
* [2009/09/11 8:21] George Linden: what if the feedback could only be given after the item has been purchased, is that equally gameable..?
* [2009/09/11 8:21] Suella Ember: well - it kinda still is. I know for a fact some sellers pay friends to buy items and rate good
* [2009/09/11 8:21] George Linden: (<--not a lot of merchant background )
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Rya Nitely: it would be good if merchants had an option to not have freebies rated
* [2009/09/11 8:22] George Linden: oh I see
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Rya Nitely: I can't put freebies in slx because of the griefers
* [2009/09/11 8:22] George Linden: I was worried about inflated negative ratings, I se what you mean
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Pink Linden: Shill buying is a key issue
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Maia Gasparini: This is true, I myself was once approached by a merchant from XStreet and asked if I would rate a few of their items for payment
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Suella Ember: it is a bit of a catch 22 to be honest and i dont think there is an easy answer
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Pink Linden: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:22] Sassy Romano: (sorry to be a pain, could ONE person just state the headline of the discussion please?)
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Grant Linden: the lack of transparency to identities and the ease of account creation make a different environment than Ebay
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Pink Linden: Hi Sassy, the topic is the updated listing guidelines
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Jarnz Dench: with the current rating/feedback system, always thought a way to make the buyer provide some feedback with low ratings would be good, so we could understand where to make improvements and such
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Pink Linden: but we switched topics to a seller registry program since there were no more questions
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Pink Linden: if you have a question about updated listing guidelines we'll go back to topic...just let us know
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Suella Ember: excellent point Jarnz
* [2009/09/11 8:23] Grant Linden: I have been looking at ways to make the SL profile more representative of the activity of the resident
* [2009/09/11 8:24] Maia Gasparini: That sounds interesting!
* [2009/09/11 8:24] Suella Ember: i do hva one more comment about the seller registry program if i may ...
* [2009/09/11 8:24] Grant Linden: if you could see that the account was not just created to review the creations of one person, you might trust that review more
* [2009/09/11 8:24] Rya Nitely: the rating system can be too easily used to spite someone and destroy a good product
* [2009/09/11 8:25] Multi Gadget: v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype
* [2009/09/11 8:25] Sassy Romano: if you force people to make a comment with low feedback, they may just elect to not bother rating though I agree, I always take a comment over a score
* [2009/09/11 8:25] Suella Ember: if there is going to be a fee to be in it, i really think that should be tied in to premium membership rather than a separate fee. So you have to be premium to be in the registy (better no fee at all, not even premium of course :))
* [2009/09/11 8:25] Maia Gasparini: That does sound good to me Grant.. a way to tell that the account hasn't just been created, reviewed some items and done nothing else.. definitely
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Sassy Romano: that rating system could be achieved to a degree by allowing us to anonymously see what other products that account had rated
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Suella Ember: yup - that does sound good Grant
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Siz Linden: Its seems like an age of the account would be helpful
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Pink Linden: we haven't really discussed a fee for participating, my initial reaction is that charging for seller registry undermines its value as an objective assessment
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Sassy Romano: so for example, if they're just rating one vendor, it's clearly gamed, if it's a general cross section then less so but would people bother to look?
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Pink Linden: but I'm open to ideas on this
* [2009/09/11 8:26] Suella Ember: glad you said that Pink :)
* [2009/09/11 8:27] Pink Linden: Siz raises a good point
* [2009/09/11 8:27] Grant Linden: I have been pondering a "friends network" approach as well - where items are shared with friends and good reviews spread like memes
* [2009/09/11 8:27] Pink Linden: one question I've had on the age issue, is how many merchants create an alt to sell under
* [2009/09/11 8:27] Grant Linden: almost like "Picks" shared with friends
* [2009/09/11 8:27] Suella Ember: yes - age is an important factor - im not sure whether its right to say avatars should be so old before they can rate, but it would help to cut out people making alts to rate i guess
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Grant Linden: Age and time in world
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Pink Linden: I see the value in limiting a new alt's ability to sell....but if it were linked to an existing mature avatar perhaps it could be less gamed.
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Siz Linden: or if the age appeared easily with the ratings
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Grant Linden: I can create an Alt and "let it bake" for six months but never use it
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Maia Gasparini: time inworld, that really would be valuable as a way to stop the abuse
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Pink Linden: nods Grant
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Pink Linden: good point
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Suella Ember: yes - i do like the idea of linking Alts to a main AV actually
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Maia Gasparini: true...
* [2009/09/11 8:28] Suella Ember: and yes time in world gets a thubs up here too :)
* [2009/09/11 8:29] Grant Linden: most profiles allow you to see more activity than ours currently display
* [2009/09/11 8:29] Pink Linden: linking could provide a way for large merchants to have employees share their good reputation
* [2009/09/11 8:29] Pink Linden: Hello Jacob, Shadowen
* [2009/09/11 8:29] Rya Nitely: Jarnz and I work together but have separate things in slx
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Suella Ember: all godd ides i think - for me i think the key issue is essentially making sure its fair as possible
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Shadowen Silvera: howdy
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Rya Nitely: but the same company
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Rya Nitely: is linking like making our listings show together?
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Grant Linden: so you might want to have one "store" with multiple participants?
* [2009/09/11 8:30] Pink Linden: what do you think Rya?
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Rya Nitely: we'd like to sell under our comany name
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Jarnz Dench: with that, a "virual shop" on xstreet would be great, showing both our items together, maybe in our profiles
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Grant Linden: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Pink Linden: nods storefronts with your own brand and url, right?
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Rya Nitely: yes
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Suella Ember: love the storefront idea
* [2009/09/11 8:31] Maia Gasparini: I like the idea of the virtual shop.. I'd like to be able to implement something into my own website someday... sort of along the lines of amazon associates for example
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Jarnz Dench: yeah, could be linked to our profiles, select a few or all items to show in it from both people in our case
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Grant Linden: one of my favorite inworld stores is the Huggy Mart - and the owner does not make anything there. It is a group of many creators.
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Suella Ember: im getting way ahead here but - storefront with a merchants own categories would be great too!
* [2009/09/11 8:32] [[User:[64P undefined|[64P undefined]]: 
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Maia Gasparini: just that ability to link your xstreet store perhaps to your own stores website if you have one
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Pink Linden: Maia, do you mean a like a feed link you could put on your website?
* [2009/09/11 8:32] Grant Linden: takes notes
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Grant Linden: hello Ziki
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Ziki Questi: hi everyone
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Pink Linden: is glad Grant takes notes since rabbits don't have opposable thumbs
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Pink Linden: hi Ziki
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Suella Ember: ha!
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Grant Linden: writes with his tail
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Pink Linden: dip it in ink!
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Suella Ember: is too busy eating cheese to take notes
* [2009/09/11 8:33] Maia Gasparini: Yes, something like that. To give you an example, my current website, I have an amazon associates account that lets me sell music on it - it's built directly into my website, not as seamlessly as I'd like HOWEVER that could be done. I'd like the same function with xstreet
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Grant Linden: I want to be able to subscribe to the "feed" of my favorite creators
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Maia Gasparini: having said that..
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Pink Linden: Maia that's a great example for us to look at
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Pink Linden: thank you
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Suella Ember: you willing to share a link to your website Maia? Then the lindens can look at your Amazon affiliate thing
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Maia Gasparini: welcome :)
* [2009/09/11 8:34] Siz Linden: good idea
* [2009/09/11 8:35] Maia Gasparini: sure, it's www.hellodavesl.com - Please note, mine is a flash website. If it were html, the integration would be alot more seamless... but it'll give you an idea - the menu link on my site is Hello Dave Tunes
* [2009/09/11 8:35] Colossus Linden: If you have a good storefront, what do you think about uploading all your items to your store, but not necessarily to the general Xstreet SL Searchable marketplace?
* [2009/09/11 8:35] Pink Linden: Maia I'm writing that site down
* [2009/09/11 8:36] Suella Ember: how do you mean Colossus?
* [2009/09/11 8:36] Maia Gasparini: Oooo, that causes it's own .. questions doesn't it.. the danger of being excluded from the masses that way?
* [2009/09/11 8:36] Maia Gasparini: the mass shoppers I mean
* [2009/09/11 8:36] Colossus Linden: For instance, you could have your whole inventory in your store front, but pay lower fees on items more easily found there, and higher fees on the select items you want to be most easily found through search on the main Xstreet SL site
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Grant Linden: Welcome Raven!
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Raven Pennyfeather: good morning :)
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Pink Linden: Hi Raven
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Raven Pennyfeather: rezing here
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Raven Pennyfeather: Hello :) lovely ot meet you both at last
* [2009/09/11 8:37] Suella Ember: hmmmm ... not sure to be honest. i see what you are saying, but i think i would prefer it to stay as is for listings and fees, but to be able to have a store front too (even if there is a SMALL one off fee for having the store fornt)
* [2009/09/11 8:38] Pink Linden: Margo, what do you think?
* [2009/09/11 8:38] Pink Linden: Shadowen, you too, the dark raven in the back. 
* [2009/09/11 8:38] Margo Sciarri: well, I am ONLY a shopper
* [2009/09/11 8:38] Pink Linden: excellent!
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Margo Sciarri: interested in keeping shops and stores in SL
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Pink Linden: that's great to hear and get feedback
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Suella Ember: great - lets have a shoppers viewpoint :)
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Raven Pennyfeather: just coming in on things here so catching up a bit..
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Margo Sciarri: sometimes the search is a little frustrating to use
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Pink Linden: Raven we're talking about the seller registry section of the intellectual property roadmap
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Raven Pennyfeather: ah.. thank you
* [2009/09/11 8:39] Pink Linden: our topic was updated listing guidelines but the group moved to a new topic
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Pink Linden: let us know if you have questions on the original topic and we'll go back
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Pink Linden: just sometimes Margo? ;)
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Margo Sciarri: lol
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Pink Linden: not to be flippant of course but yes it needs improvement
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Margo Sciarri: 98%?
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Suella Ember: actually - heres a question then Margo if you dont mind ... as a shopper, would you think about buying from a "accredited" seller more - if they had like some sort of accreditation as part of the seller program to say they meet certain criteria? Or wouldn't it make a difference to you?
* [2009/09/11 8:40] Raven Pennyfeather: I think its a very viable concept from what i understand of it. My only concern from what i have heard is the fee and its impact to newer designers who dont have a lot of working capital
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Pink Linden: /nods at Raven. We have not proposed charging a fee that I'm aware of.
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Margo Sciarri: I guess it all depends on what "accreditation" will mean?
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Sassy Romano: what's the proposed fee?
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Margo Sciarri: I shop at alot of different stores
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Raven Pennyfeather: ah ok... then there was some confusion around that
* [2009/09/11 8:41] Maia Gasparini: If I could also answer that, as a regular shopper, buying from an accredited seller wouldn't feature in my mind at all - It would make absolutely no difference to who I choose to purchase goods from.. but that's just me
* [2009/09/11 8:42] Margo Sciarri: in the long run I think it wouldnt matter really
* [2009/09/11 8:42] Margo Sciarri: if you find something you like, will it matter if they are accredited? I dont think so
* [2009/09/11 8:42] Sassy Romano: for what it's worth, i've seen some downright lousy and disgusting policies from people that would probably be "accredited" on the basis of them paying a fee, i'd like to know how it would work
* [2009/09/11 8:42] Suella Ember: What about if the accredited seller had to confirm all their items were their own creations, and if they ever stole anything or broke copyright etc they would lose their accreditation?
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Sassy Romano: I'd like to see it include policies that guarantee a level of support to the customer
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Pink Linden: one reason we are looking at a registry of some kind is that there will be a lot of noobs coming in (if we do our job right)
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Maia Gasparini: That IS a good idea Sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Margo Sciarri: something has to be done to stop the content theft in SL
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Grant Linden: welcome Ameshin !
* [2009/09/11 8:43] Ameshin Yossarian: hello =^.^=
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Harper Beresford: so the hope is xstreet will attract noobs to shop or to enter SL?
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Sassy Romano: the problem i sthat some people don't know they have stolen content if say they buy full perms templates and create with those. Is it right to say that everyone should create every prim, every texture?
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Pink Linden: first I want to confirm that there is no plan to charge a fee for seller registry
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Suella Ember: no sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Rya Nitely: we'd get more customers if there was no need to find an xstreet terminal, are ther plans to combine the 2 accounts?
* [2009/09/11 8:44] Pink Linden: so that is an official confirmation--no fees on this idea.
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Suella Ember: as long as they were licesed to use the full perm items its ok. Most should provide a licence
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Sassy Romano: no fees on accreditation either (is this the same thing?)
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Pink Linden: same thing Sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Suella Ember: excellent Pink :)
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Rya Nitely: manypeople don't know how to buy
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Raven Pennyfeather: thank you .. good to know
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Maia Gasparini: You know... that would be a nice way of using the 'accredited merchant' idea - For example, it could include a customer care plan as Sassy just said, that all participating merchants must adhere to in order to remain in the program. That might make me lean towards buying from an accredited merchant over a non accredited merchant, particularly where expensive purchases are concerned
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Sassy Romano: how about giving accredited sellers a better route to replacing inventory loss which is an SL issue and not a vendor issue?
* [2009/09/11 8:45] Pink Linden: Harper I wouldn't phrase it exactly that way....
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Harper Beresford: can i interject that i think fees are appropriate because it shows a level of commitment to investing in SL?
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Pink Linden: to be clear, we want people in world...that's the whole point of second life. 
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Sassy Romano: wait... LL should be paying us to stay here to attract noobs! ;)
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Harper Beresford: ok so you want to continue interest
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Ziki Questi: laughs
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Pink Linden: exactly, and if you remember your first few days in SL how painful it was to get going
* [2009/09/11 8:46] Raven Pennyfeather: If i might ask. will ths accreditation also include bio of sorts or stats on the vendor as to customer svc rating etc
* [2009/09/11 8:47] Pink Linden: details to be determined Raven, but what you're suggesting seems reasonable and doable
* [2009/09/11 8:47] Raven Pennyfeather: we have always worked diligently to provide same day or 24 hour turn around time on our inquiries
* [2009/09/11 8:47] Pink Linden: feedback is complex and nuanced situation
* [2009/09/11 8:47] Raven Pennyfeather: nods
* [2009/09/11 8:47] Pink Linden: and providing opportunities to give feeback on various parts of the experience could be an option
* [2009/09/11 8:48] Sassy Romano: I will state that I would NOT be at all interested in a ratings system that was just scoring the fact that I paid money and got a product. I want to rate (and be rated) ONLY on how issues are addressed
* [2009/09/11 8:48] Shadowen Silvera: you talk about buyers knowing if something is stolen content or not.. how many people actually worry about that? (napster, bittorents, pirated movies,etc) Usually it is the person that owns the content that is being stolen that actually worries.
* [2009/09/11 8:48] Pink Linden: i.e. you don't want an overall poor rating just because of a mis delivery....
* [2009/09/11 8:48] Shadowen Silvera: I think it will just create a sort of black market
* [2009/09/11 8:48] Suella Ember: true Shadowen - but i think it would make a statement though, and i think thats a good thing
* [2009/09/11 8:49] Suella Ember: the more we can do to say stealing content wont be tolerated the better in my opinion
* [2009/09/11 8:49] Harper Beresford: Shadowen, I think there is a pretty strong ethic among spenders in SL about stolen content
* [2009/09/11 8:49] Pink Linden: one mental model we consider is what happened with music
* [2009/09/11 8:49] Suella Ember: maybe accredited sellers should get fast track DMCA? :)
* [2009/09/11 8:49] Pink Linden: there was a black market in stolen music
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Pink Linden: but when iTunes created a legitimate, fast, easy way to legally buy, it opened the door
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Rya Nitely: I agree that creators care but most buyers don't
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Pink Linden: are there still people stealing stuff on bit torrent? sure
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Pink Linden: but artistst are still making money on iTunes
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Suella Ember: thats an good example Pink ... hadn't considered it like that
* [2009/09/11 8:50] Margo Sciarri: well for new people, it may be hard for them to be able to tell if an item was pirated
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Pink Linden: exactly Margo...exactly
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Sassy Romano: anyone want a load of free skins? lol
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Suella Ember: redgrave by any chance? lol
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Pink Linden: we've been discussing how to educate buyers about what is good content....and how to tell
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Sassy Romano: oh you already have them
* [2009/09/11 8:51] Suella Ember: lol i most certainly do not ... but i know they are all over the place :)
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Ameshin Yossarian: might be nice if there was an official merchants 'no stolen content' group logo or something similar =^.^=
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Harper Beresford: well there was a program that was run among content creators
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Sassy Romano: that would be forged
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Harper Beresford: which includes a logo that they can post
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Rya Nitely: how can you prove somone stole from you?
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Suella Ember: its policing it thats the problem though Ameshin
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Rya Nitely: it's just your word against theirs
* [2009/09/11 8:52] Harper Beresford: that ad campaign where they spoke about buying stolen content is like stealing the clothes off my back
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Ameshin Yossarian: mm.. i put copyright text on pretty much everything i make that stops it a bit =^.^=
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Grant Linden: Hello Mezer
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Suella Ember: yup - i took part in that
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Harper Beresford: i found that very compelling, though it was only done in english as far as I know
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Mezer Blackbart: hi
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Harper Beresford: and I see it in new stores still
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Pink Linden: would love to see examples of that Harper
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Suella Ember: i have one Pink - hold on :)
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Harper Beresford: it was clever and included some big designer names
* [2009/09/11 8:53] Sassy Romano: scenario for you... say I buy a dress and part of it is faulty... the creator doesn't respond in 3 months. I still want to use that dress, say if I copy the prims I need to modify to take off a full bright setting. I can't get compensation from the creator, they're not fixing it, what bad have I done? It's not the clear cut "it was pirated" that it seems
* [2009/09/11 8:54] Harper Beresford: loved it
* [2009/09/11 8:54] Harper Beresford: and i see it as a sort of "seal of approval" in stores I shop in.. but it was only done in english and besides the graphic poster, not much was followed up on
* [2009/09/11 8:54] Shadowen Silvera: Personally I think that Stroker gave us all a good example buy actually defending himself from content theft all on his own. But I'm a bit of a darwinist.
* [2009/09/11 8:54] Suella Ember: need to be careful about it being PG enough though :)
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Harper Beresford: but the mechanisms for guarding against content theft are available.. and no one has been able to quantify yet the true "cost" of this theft
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Harper Beresford: I am guessing it's lower than everyone imagines..
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Suella Ember: Pink - im going to give you a full permission version of that - feel free to pass it on to other lindens if needs be :)
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Harper Beresford: I am waiting for SOMEONE to tell me what the cost of chasing it versus the cost of lost opportunity are
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Sassy Romano: I agree Harper, many who use the "copied" stuff wouldn't have bought anyway, therefore no actual loss
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Sassy Romano: and that too
* [2009/09/11 8:55] Pink Linden: thanks Suella
* [2009/09/11 8:56] Harper Beresford: because I think content desigenrs spend a disproportionate time worrying about this and talking about it and not knowing what to do about it, including how to file DMCAs
* [2009/09/11 8:56] Pink Linden: ok folks, we're coming up on 5 minutes left in the hour
* [2009/09/11 8:56] Raven Pennyfeather: Theft of conent virtual or real is an unfortunate fact of doing business. while awareness and prevention measures need to be developed and enforced. it is only one part of the larger marketing challenges we face
* [2009/09/11 8:56] Pink Linden: if I may, I'd like to make a pitch for you all to join our merchants group in world
* [2009/09/11 8:56] Pink Linden: we're open enrollment
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Suella Ember: i'm in and i promise not to talk about cheese .... much!
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Sassy Romano: I did and I didn't get the message, group chat still needs fixing ;)
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Raven Pennyfeather: thank you would be very interested in joining
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Pink Linden: Raven, that's a good point
* [2009/09/11 8:57] George Linden: 
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Pink Linden: we'd like to do more to educate buyers about how to avoid stolen content
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Pink Linden: that helps
* [2009/09/11 8:57] Harper Beresford: yes that campaign was clever
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Shadowen Silvera: wonders if, "once a merchant, always merchant" applies. Technically I am not, at the moment, a merchant. Since I have no place to sell.
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Harper Beresford: and might be expanded upon
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Sassy Romano: oh, one other suggestion... consider an accrediation system for malls and their owners :)
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Pink Linden: Shadowen, all who sell in second life or on xstreet are welcome, even if on a sabbatical
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Pink Linden: 
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Pink Linden: interesting sassy
* [2009/09/11 8:58] Pink Linden: how would it differ?
* [2009/09/11 8:59] Sassy Romano: i'm a bit hacked off at times with the treatment from some mall owners who figure they can have a no refund policy having changed their rules POST initial rental for example
* [2009/09/11 8:59] Suella Ember: wouldnt the mall owner need to ensure all their tenants met the accreditation criteria too?