Doc Team/2010-12-08

== Transcript ==
[13:01]	:	Hello! Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
[13:01]	:	hey jeremy
[13:01]	 	has pinged you.
[13:02]	:	hello
[13:02]	:	Actually, I should probably just change the title to "Jeremy Linden's office hour"
[13:02]	 	has pinged you.
[13:02]	:	/me wasgonna sugeest a clean up of all the prim littering here
[13:02]	:	Hey Adam. That's a different look for you.
[13:02]	:	but yeah "jeremy's office hour " is goodf
[13:02]	 	has pinged you.
[13:02]	:	Heh. Yes, I just took care of the litter.
[13:02]	:	couldn;t resist this avatar
[13:03]	:	Hello Arawn. Welcome back.
[13:03]	:	i did get if for my alt, but i wanted one for this avatar yoo
[13:03]	:	hey arawn :)
[13:03]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Hey, Belch
[13:04]	:	onigokko
[13:04]	:	you removed it :)
[13:04]	:	stop
[13:04]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I've discovered, SL2 doesn't allow for Local Lights.
[13:04]	:	Viewer 2?
[13:04]	:	Unless I'm mistaken, I see several local lights right now.
[13:04]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I was going potty, last night, and someone suggested I go behind the bushes, so became one.
[13:05]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I could not find the toiggle, for nearby local lights, and my horns weren't lighting the area, as they should
[13:06]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Some crazed Linden keeps thinking that a darker world is more aesthetic for Everyone
[13:06]	:	Strange. I see quite a bit of light around you, and I'm on the standard (Viewer 2) Viewer.
[13:06]	:	Do you have Basic Shaders enabled?
[13:06]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I'm on Snowglobe: Basic Shaders?
[13:07]	:	It should be on the Graphics tab of the Preferences window, but I'm not familiar with Snowglobe, specifically.
[13:07]	 	(arawn.spitteler): My system won't do Windlaugh, if that's needed.
[13:07]	:	Basic Shaders was a setting introduced with WindLight about 3 years ago.
[13:08]	:	Hello Qie, welcome back.
[13:09]	 	(arawn.spitteler): onigokko
[13:09]	 	(arawn.spitteler): stop
[13:09]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Just testing
[13:09]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I found myself unable to search, with SL2
[13:09]	:	In what way, Arawn?
[13:10]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I couldn't figure out, how to search events
[13:10]	:	There should be an Events tab in the search results.
[13:11]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I was showing a neighbor, how to use SL, and she chose to go to Snowglobe
[13:11]	 	of RL distraction there. :o
[13:11]	 	has pinged you.
[13:11]	:	No problem, Qie.
[13:11]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I'm not on SL2, atm, but couldn't find the search tab
[13:11]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Is that the paw?
[13:12]	:	There is a search field at the top right of the Viewer 2 window. If you enter a search term there and press Enter, it opens the FIND window, which shows the results of your search.
[13:12]	 	just be because I keep using nightly builds, but for a while now I get "404 - Page not found" whenever I try any form of in-world Help. Thought I'd mention it, in case it's not just me.
[13:13]	:	Hm. It may be the nightly builds, Qie. The way the in-Viewer help works, it passes the Viewer channel to the help URL so we can deliver version-specific help.
[13:14]	 	well be it. thanks.
[13:15]	:	No problem! I like the Viewer 2 help system, but it is harder and harder to justify as third-party Viewers become more prevalent.
[13:15]	:	Since anyone not using Viewer 2 can't see it :-)
[13:16]	 	(arawn.spitteler): In Snowglobe, Search is under your butt, so we can tell people so.
[13:16]	:	/me will never use viewer 2
[13:16]	 	actually quite nice, I remember, back when I was using a normal released version.
[13:16]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Nightly Build Questions are important
[13:17]	:	Yes, we designed it specifically to work with Viewer 2. It's a pretty cool system that gets all its source content from the wiki.
[13:17]	 	(arawn.spitteler): They could be channeled to special handling
[13:17]	:	/me suspects he might not be able to keep up with the documentation demands of nightly builds.
[13:18]	 	(arawn.spitteler): There should be an organization of data, to keep up, with version specific updates, and input boxes for behavioural variations.
[13:19]	 	(arawn.spitteler): It's an area where the programmers should do the updates
[13:19]	 	(arawn.spitteler): "What does this change effect?"
[13:20]	:	I've worked at companies where they had exactly what you're describing, Arawn. Of course, it wasn't perfect. Lots of times the engineers would just mark EVERYTHING as "affects documentation" :-)
[13:20]	 	(arawn.spitteler): When my mother was a programmer, the only documentation was the Hysterical Record
[13:20]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Perhaps those programmers would like to field all the questions?
[13:21]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Stick'em back on Help Desk
[13:22]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Is Linden Labs intending to install a help desk?
[13:22]	:	We do have a customer support team...
[13:22]	:	who are the new 3rd party company jeremy please? can you tell us?
[13:22]	 	has pinged you.
[13:22]	 	(bronson.blackadder): really?
[13:23]	:	Adam, if we haven't made a public announcement, I don't think I can say yet.
[13:23]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me heard something about Ontyne leaving a revealed vaccuum
[13:23]	 	(bronson.blackadder): ontyne sucked
[13:23]	:	Hey Bronson. Long time no see.
[13:23]	 	(bronson.blackadder): lol
[13:23]	:	that's fair enough jeremy - i hadn't actually heard anything myself
[13:23]	 	has pinged you.
[13:23]	 	(bronson.blackadder): Yo Jeremy :)
[13:23]	 	has pinged you.
[13:24]	 	(bronson.blackadder): actually my one and only contact with Ontyne was good
[13:24]	:	i've spoken to same guiy in live help 3 time slately "jonb noname"
[13:24]	 	(bronson.blackadder): oddly enough
[13:24]	:	and i have been impressed
[13:24]	 	(arawn.spitteler): I still regard the loss of Mentors to be a mistake
[13:24]	 	been working on that gambling page on the wiki recently? ;)
[13:24]	 	has pinged you.
[13:25]	:	i hated the ontynes - a) rude b) lack of knowledge c) bear-faced lirars
[13:25]	:	I don't believe so, Qie. I may have touched it for some other maintenance reason, though. So far, my only knowledge of any Gambling policy changes has been through Resident blogs.
[13:25]	 	
[13:25]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me wonders who'd hire a bare faced bear as librarian
[13:26]	:	it;s a saying: they lied
[13:26]	:	on theri answers to my support ickets
[13:26]	:	tickets*
[13:26]	:	only time i've EVER had to complain abot sl
[13:26]	:	via the ticket system
[13:26]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me's just been reading Golden Compass: Bears are supposed to be quite honest
[13:27]	 	the Doc team has nothing to do with the forums, but https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2587 is pretty annoying; There's like 3 pages of irrelevant "Featured Discussions" above the current topic list, on http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/forums/general?view=discussions for example. I wonder who one might beg to get some changes to the Jive CSS for those views.
[13:27]	:	so, i won't miss the ontynes
[13:27]	 	(bronson.blackadder): speaking of support tickets
[13:27]	:	/me stops ranting
[13:27]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I still have one listed as new
[13:27]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and its been like 3 months
[13:27]	 	(bronson.blackadder): almost 4 months
[13:28]	:	Yes, well, *ahem* "We try to respond to support requests in roughly the order in which they were received."
[13:28]	 	(bronson.blackadder): lol
[13:28]	 	(bronson.blackadder): its not really a major pressing issue
[13:28]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but teh day I rezzed there was a database problem
[13:28]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me gruphly croaks: Who ordered this support ticket?
[13:28]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I couldnt get off of avatar island
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): it was fixed
[13:29]	:	Ouch.
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but there was a residual effect
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I age verified
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but individual parcels marked as adult only I cant enter
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): buit
[13:29]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I can go to adult sims
[13:29]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Age Verification is normally taken as evidence, that you haven't the maturity to handle real sex
[13:30]	 	(bronson.blackadder): well no
[13:30]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I cant handle relationships
[13:30]	 	(bronson.blackadder): the sex part is easy
[13:30]	 	(arawn.spitteler): You're ahead of most devs
[13:30]	:	Hm... I don't know if that's a side effect of your getting stuck, Bronson. I don't have a great handle on how age verification works, but there was once a difference between "age verified" and "adult content verified".
[13:31]	:	One moment, I think someone explained this to me once.
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): yeah
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): its always been like that though
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): for this avatar
[13:31]	 	sure anyone has the maturity to handle "real sex"... for some value of "real"
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I made a test dummy and age verified that
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and it works
[13:31]	 	(bronson.blackadder): using all teh same info and everything
[13:32]	:	Ah, here we go: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4489
[13:32]	 	get on Adult sims with either Aristotle age verification, or with Payment Info On File...
[13:32]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but its just some weird bug with this avatar
[13:32]	:	Might not be the answer to your problem, but it is a strange effect.
[13:32]	 	(bronson.blackadder): taking a look at this now
[13:34]	 	(bronson.blackadder): aristotle bugs
[13:34]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I need some sorta ointment for that
[13:34]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me wonders if Bronson should file an Aristotle Report
[13:34]	 	(bronson.blackadder): lol
[13:35]	:	Oy. Well, if you have a Premium or Concierge account, I believe you have the option to manually age-verify. Of course, I think that involves yet another ticket :-/
[13:35]	:	that doesn't work
[13:35]	:	and my idea was told "go boil your head"
[13:35]	:	i'm uk based
[13:35]	 	to me that you can get on Adult regions because you have Payment Info On File, but that the Aristotle bit didn't quite register completely for this account, so you can't get on parcels that explicitly require "age verification" for access.
[13:35]	:	i have prem acc, payment info on file, for 2 accounts
[13:36]	:	still can't get verified
[13:36]	 	(bronson.blackadder): Qie you are correct
[13:36]	 	(bronson.blackadder): adult regions I can get onto
[13:36]	 	(bronson.blackadder): adult parcels I cant
[13:36]	:	i suggested, whilst it was still opne, that maybe ll brighton could've handled uk ones
[13:36]	:	Yes, that sounds like what was explaind to me, and what is described in that Jira bug.
[13:37]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Different standards for parcels and sims?
[13:37]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and whats funny is taht there is parcels on adult regions that are flagged as adult verification
[13:37]	 	Aristotle stuff was new (it was called "ID verification" back then), it had *lots* of problems like this. But this is the first I've heard of it any time recently.
[13:37]	 	(bronson.blackadder): which is rather redundant
[13:37]	:	Two different verification systems, Arawn. In a perfect world, only the newest, "payment info on file" method should apply.
[13:38]	:	(At least, that is my understanding.)
[13:38]	 	(bronson.blackadder): yes it worked for my alt test dummy
[13:39]	:	At any rate, my current plan is to start renovating our KB content in Q1 of 2011, starting in about a month, hopefully.
[13:39]	:	Maturity and age verification articles will probably come first, since they are, statistically, the most-viewed in the whole KB.
[13:40]	 	(bronson.blackadder): awesome
[13:40]	 	January sees the 16- and 17-year olds coming to the main grid, so that topic will be viewed a lot (even if it's not entirely relevant)
[13:41]	:	I'm gonna need to do a whole lot of interviewing and research around the company to get the whole story on how those features work. It's one of those things where you have to track down lots of people to get the whole picture.
[13:41]	 	(bronson.blackadder): exactly
[13:41]	:	Hopefully I'll get to be the one guy who knows everything :-D
[13:41]	:	my group land's now changed due to the kids coming inot the main grid, it was open access, now it;s acess list only
[13:41]	 	(bronson.blackadder): lol
[13:42]	:	You all may have noticed that this region changed from M to G this week. I made the request so that teens can participate in this office hour if they would like.
[13:42]	 	(arawn.spitteler): PG, now
[13:43]	 	(bronson.blackadder): sounds logical
[13:43]	:	"totally"
[13:43]	 	(arawn.spitteler): In PG, we're not to do things inconsistent with a ten year old kid? This could make B&D a lot more violent
[13:43]	:	There are some pretty smart kids over there. I hold separate office hours for them each week, and I think I might be the last Linden who does.
[13:43]	:	ballons on a bike, it'll be like having my own ruddy kids here
[13:44]	:	Heh. Adam, you don't have the ability to kick your kids out of reality for an hour if they get unruly.
[13:44]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I think it will not be any major disaster getting them over here
[13:44]	 	missed my last chance to cuss at one of these office hours. :p
[13:44]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Just be creative
[13:44]	:	i think it;s a shame - i had to close my land to "everyone" to keep the kids out of it
[13:45]	:	Yeah. You guys may have seen Daniel Voyager here. A few years ago, he used to attend my TSL office hour. He was real popular over there.
[13:45]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Does that mean he's over forty?
[13:45]	:	Nah, he turned 18.
[13:45]	 	G-rated land?
[13:45]	:	yeah - mainland
[13:46]	:	might ask for the region to be changed to mature
[13:46]	:	My point is, many of the teens are just as civil and reasonable as the adults here. Sometimes moreso :-)
[13:46]	 	(bronson.blackadder): you will be surprised how many teens are actually here now
[13:47]	 	(bronson.blackadder): that act mature enough to not be noticed
[13:47]	:	(And sometimes less. That's what landowner powers are for.)
[13:47]	:	I'm actually not surprised at all, Bronson. I've been shocked a few times as my alt to find that people I knew had been "deported".
[13:48]	:	all i;ve done is change my orb to "toodle-oo" to anyone not on the list
[13:48]	:	eject only
[13:48]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and as a matter of fact my test dummy knows one that I suspect is a teen
[13:48]	 	at some infohubs (trying to test voice), and I have to say that "acting like teenagers" would be a big improvement for many of the local denizens.
[13:48]	:	Heh.
[13:48]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but its so close to the merge Im not bothering with ARing her
[13:49]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I really think that info ubs should not be the first thing that new people see
[13:49]	:	Well, unless someone admits to it, there's not much to be done. Saying "This person acts like a teenager" isn't really enough for the support team to go after.
[13:50]	 	infohubs are where newbs get sent anymore, are they?
[13:50]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Grounds for suspicion are non reportable?
[13:50]	 	(bronson.blackadder): text speaking like a 13 year old is a pretty big clue
[13:50]	 	(bronson.blackadder): even 18 year olds try to type whole sentences
[13:50]	 	(bronson.blackadder): for teh most part
[13:50]	 	(arawn.spitteler): You can distinguish a 13 from a laggy keyboard
[13:50]	:	I dunno, Bronson. I know some 40 year olds who type like that because it's "faster" and they're not great typists.
[13:51]	:	/me coudl tell you a tale about that :)
[13:51]	 	(bronson.blackadder): you could be right
[13:51]	:	50] Arawn Spitteler: Grounds for suspicion are non reporta
[13:51]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but Im 41
[13:51]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and not a professional typist
[13:51]	 	(bronson.blackadder): at least not classicly trained
[13:51]	 	
[13:51]	:	The "grounds for suspicion" would have to be pretty indisputable, like someone admitting to being underage.
[13:52]	 	(bronson.blackadder): but yes thats why Im not bothering with ARing the poor girl
[13:52]	 	(arawn.spitteler): We don't really get suspicious, until they ask the ages of others
[13:52]	 	you're more into improvisational, avant garde keyboard. :p
[13:52]	:	i DID once report over a suspiscion - someethibng was donw
[13:52]	 	(bronson.blackadder): fastest two finger typing you ever did see :)
[13:52]	:	Adam, there might have been enough to prompt an investigation that uncovered that person admitting their age.
[13:53]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me likes the Columbus Method, despite its Italian Orignis.
[13:53]	 	(bronson.blackadder): and I bash the space bar with my forehead just to keep things stirred up
[13:53]	:	I'm not actually on that team, though, so I don't know their processes as well as I might.
[13:53]	:	there was
[13:53]	:	Aerobic keyboarding!
[13:54]	 	(bronson.blackadder): there you go
[13:54]	 	(bronson.blackadder): feel the burn
[13:54]	 	(bronson.blackadder): feel it!
[13:54]	:	when you have children in yoru family, you just recognise certain thigns, ways of typing, acting etc
[13:54]	:	One day, if I ever get millions of dollars, I'm going to get one of those huge keyboards you can jump around on, just for the exercise. :-D
[13:54]	:	set alarm bells rining
[13:54]	:	ringing
[13:54]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me imagines the CIA lagging someone's keyboard, so they feel they're drowning.
[13:54]	:	that, and only that, prompted the ar
[13:55]	:	Adam, while that's certainly true, it's hard to communicate that kind of instinct in a facts-only record.
[13:55]	:	let';s jsut say, it was highly detailed
[13:55]	 	(bronson.blackadder): she doesnt hang out in questionable areas yet
[13:56]	 	(bronson.blackadder): so this here cat is just turning a blind eye
[13:56]	:	imho, i had to do it in case of it being what i suspected
[13:57]	:	No worries, Adam. I don't know the details, but it sounds like you did the right thing.
[13:57]	:	Anyway, new subject: Is anyone planning on attending the Resident/Linden snowball fight this year?
[13:57]	 	(arawn.spitteler): /me always gets the time wrong
[13:57]	 	(bronson.blackadder): oh whens this?
[13:57]	:	when is it?
[13:57]	:	Hmm... Lemme check the blog.
[13:58]	 	(bronson.blackadder): Bika!!!!!!
[13:58]	 	(bronson.blackadder): welcome to SL :)
[13:58]	:	It was mentioned here: http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/11/23/save-the-date-for-winterfest-2010
[13:58]	 	(bronson.blackadder): glad you made it :)
[13:58]	 	(arawn.spitteler): The old style blog listing was more effective. I'm never sure if the new one is opening my browser
[13:58]	:	Oh, and the scheduling is here: http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/11/30/join-the-festivities-at-winterfest
[13:58]	 	xD
[13:58]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:58]	:	hi bika
[13:58]	:	Hello bika16harbuz.
[13:59]	 	(bronson.blackadder): right on! something to do friday
[13:59]	 	I made it to one of those snowball fights one year. Turns out I suck at mouselook.
[13:59]	 	v1.2d: Thank you, bika16harbuz Resident! Let me show you the location of the Doc Dock.
 Visit the Documentation Team Office Hour Wednesdays at 1 PM SLT
[13:59]	:	Welcome to my office hour! We're just about reay to wrap up here today, but I'm here every Wednesday from 1-2pm PST to chat about as much Linden stuff as I'm allowed.
[13:59]	 	(bronson.blackadder): oh hey Jeremy while you're here
[13:59]	 	has pinged you.
[14:00]	 	(bronson.blackadder): you have a bear?
[14:00]	:	Heh. And lag, Qie, don't forget the lag.
[14:00]	:	I do have a bear!
[14:00]	 	(bronson.blackadder): awesome :)
[14:00]	:	Items successfully shared.
[14:01]	 	(bronson.blackadder): thanks Jeremy :)
[14:01]	 	has pinged you.
[14:02]	:	So, one year, I accidentally sent a message to the whole grid, telling them where the snowball fight was. The region filled up in about 0.003 seconds, and so did all of the adjacent regions. People were bouncing off the avatar limit trying to get in!
[14:02]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Thank god you didn't use a Torley Tweet
[14:02]	 	(bronson.blackadder): I went a coule of years ago
[14:02]	 	(bronson.blackadder): it was so laggy the snowballs were hanging in the air
[14:03]	:	Yeah, that happens when so many people try to throw physical objects around at once while running and flying around.
[14:03]	:	That's why I made a scripted object to shoot snowballs at people. I didn't have to aim :-)
[14:04]	 	(bronson.blackadder): cheater
[14:04]	 	(bronson.blackadder): ll
[14:04]	 	(bronson.blackadder): o
[14:04]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Temp Rezzers would have to work, so we could script tanks that aim at lindens only
[14:04]	:	Nah. Superior firepower to match superior numbers, I say.
[14:04]	:	Lindens can hide from sensors :-D
[14:04]	 	(bronson.blackadder): ok ok I'll grant you that one
[14:04]	 	(bronson.blackadder): force equalizer
[14:05]	 	Artillery: Touch to select from available targets!
[14:05]	 	bet llGetObjectDetails works on Lindens
[14:05]	 	Artillery: Launching snowball at Qie Niangao!
[14:05]	 	
[14:05]	 	(bronson.blackadder): lol
[14:05]	:	Heh. Sorry :-)
[14:05]	 	2 has this "Sit Here" thing, hehehe
[14:06]	:	This year I think I want to change my pyrokinesis thingy to do cryokinesis.
[14:06]	:	A sound and particle swap will probably do the trick.
[14:07]	 	(arawn.spitteler): Change of particles would do
[14:07]	:	Oh wow, we're past time! Cutting here for the transcript.
 
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