Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2011.10.14

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Arawn Spitteler 	devilspade Constantine
Eolene Uralia 	Gfresh Botha 	Jonathan Yap
Kallista Destiny 	Kennylex Luckless	Leonel Iceghost
lonetorus Habilis 	Moundsa Mayo 	Nalates Urriah
Pauline Darkfury 	Pavl Duke 	Rex Cronon
Sahkolihaa Contepomi	Sniper Siemens 	Trash Deluxe
Vincent Nacon 	 	
== Transcript ==
[15:59] Kallista Destiny: Andrew is here
[15:59] Kallista Destiny: Hi Andrew
[15:59] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Hey Andrew.
[15:59] Andrew Linden: Hello
[15:59] Vincent Nacon: heya
[15:59] devilspade Constantine: hello
[16:00] Vincent Nacon: know if Falcon is attending? you don't have to ask him to come
[16:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group
[16:00] Kallista Destiny: So no apparent bad side effects to the fix, and some apparent improvement.
[16:00] Andrew Linden: I don't think Falcon is planning on showing up.
[16:00] Kallista Destiny: Thank you
[16:00] Vincent Nacon: k
[16:00] Andrew Linden: Also, Simon is on vacation today.
[16:00] Andrew Linden: So I think it is just me.
[16:01] Vincent Nacon: everyone is on vacation except you?
[16:01] Kallista Destiny: Oskar was around
[16:01] Andrew Linden: No, just Simon and Kelly.
[16:01] Kennylex Luckless: omg, vacation.... how shall we now manage this?
[16:02] Andrew Linden: Late on Friday afternoons is sometimes kinda empty.
[16:02] Kallista Destiny: I/m sure it is.
[16:02] Moundsa Mayo: Hey, Pauline. Really enjoying your rail build in Gluphshia.
[16:03] Moundsa Mayo: errr. Gluphisia
[16:03] Andrew Linden: First item of news: on Tues I claimed that there was a fix for SVC-7343 that I ported into an RC update...
[16:03] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7343
[#SVC-7343] llMinEventDelay Bug
[16:04] Andrew Linden: turns out that fix didn't actually work
[16:04] Vincent Nacon: oh? what's the cause?
[16:04] Andrew Linden: I was just porting a claimed fix. Dunno why it didn't actually work.
[16:04] Andrew Linden: We'll have to try that one again.
[16:04] Pauline Darkfury: Hi folks :)
[16:05] Gfresh Botha: Hi Pauline
[16:05] Pauline Darkfury: Glad you like my efforts there, Moundsa. I really need to finish it sometime
[16:05] Rex's greeter says: Hello Gfresh, Sniper, Vincent, Kallista, Andrew, devilspade, Sahkolihaa, Moundsa, Pauline, Jonathan, Kennylex, and Nalates.
[16:05] Andrew Linden: Other bit of news: I did deploy a test fix of SVC-5927 to two combat regions
[16:05] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5927
[#SVC-5927] Temp on Rezzed objects get queued
[16:05] Andrew Linden: and the results looked positive
[16:05] Andrew Linden: The group that was testing it out were supposed to run a bigger test, but I haven't heard back.
[16:06] Vincent Nacon: even from the person who reported it is happy with it?
[16:06] Kallista Destiny: Hope just got back from her Meeting and some work
[16:06] Andrew Linden: However today when I was reviewing the change and realized I hadn't implemented all the protections I wanted.
[16:06] Kallista Destiny: She said that she'll try to get something going.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: I think all I did was open up the big lag disaster we were trying to prevent.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: So I'm going to have to modify it a bit and test again next week.
[16:07] Kallista Destiny: OK, I'll tell her
[16:07] Andrew Linden: I'm going to pull the two test regions off of the experimental code over the weekend.
[16:07] Andrew Linden: I don't have any spares setup to run those regions.
[16:08] Gfresh Botha: hey Snipi
[16:08] Kallista Destiny: Hope sent you mesage to the siginificant people
[16:08] Andrew Linden: So if there were a problem over the weekend it wouldn't get fixed until someone managed to get in touch with me.
[16:08] Andrew Linden: I've been coordinating with one person yeah, they know.
[16:09] Andrew Linden: So does that floating couch push itself around? Or does it require manual nudging?
[16:09] Vincent Nacon: oh that's me
[16:09] Andrew Linden: Just curious if it was pushing itself around scripted or not.
[16:10] Vincent Nacon: it can be but I doubt it would keep me near the table
[16:10] Andrew Linden: That's all the news I've got, I think.
[16:10] Vincent Nacon: open table!
[16:10] Andrew Linden: yes
[16:10] Jonathan Yap: Masetro announced the new estate LSL functions at Oskar's meeting last night
[16:11] Andrew Linden: I haven't heard about those LSL functions yet. Did he say which project those were in?
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: the ban function?
[16:11] Kallista Destiny: Andrew, on behalf of a bunch of people I'd really like to thank you for your efforts on thar problem.
[16:11] Jonathan Yap: If he did I do not remember
[16:11] Jonathan Yap: yes, the ban / allow functions
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[16:11] Vincent Nacon: long over due
[16:11] Nalates Urriah: tHEY ARE IN bLUE sTEEL
[16:12] Andrew Linden: Those LSL functions are on BlueSteel?
[16:12] Gfresh Botha: you know where I come from, those sofas are hunted in the wild
[16:12] Gfresh Botha: rarely seen
[16:12] Nalates Urriah: Yes
[16:12] Pauline Darkfury: I missed yesterday's meeting, How about llGetBanList? That's one of the biggest pains, as the listing windows are far too small
[16:12] Nalates Urriah: llManageEstateAccess()
[16:12] Kallista Destiny: That wasn't mentioned.
[16:12] Pauline Darkfury: When you have over 200 estate ban lists to manage, not being able to extract the list is a serious problem
[16:12] Gfresh Botha: it's a beutiful thing to see one free from fear of predators
[16:12] Jonathan Yap: Pauline I asked about that, it was not implemented
[16:13] Jonathan Yap: Now would be the time to push for it, have it added to those new functions
[16:13] Vincent Nacon: isn't there a llGetBannedList function?
[16:13] Pauline Darkfury: Even for a single ban list, only seeing it 4 at a time is nonsense
[16:13] Pauline Darkfury: Nope, only add/remove/clear, Vincent
[16:13] Vincent Nacon: lame....
[16:13] Nalates Urriah: Maestro said there is no get list finctions.
[16:13] Pauline Darkfury: Have to use a libomv client to get the full list
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: we're gonna need that
[16:14] Jonathan Yap: Pauline, do you want the list in lsl or would saving it locally to your HD be what you could use?
[16:14] Nalates Urriah: I have quotes of what he said here: http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/14/sl-server-news-week-41/#more-5408
[16:14] Andrew Linden: I'm not familiar with the project on BlueSteel
[16:14] Vincent Nacon: then a LSL script can manage more than the banned limit
[16:14] Pauline Darkfury: Getting the list in LSL would be great. After that, I can use it anywhere
[16:14] Sniper Siemens: nice Blog Nal
[16:14] Pauline Darkfury: Ideally the viewer should let me extract it as a text file, CSV, or something as well
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: aye
[16:15] Nalates Urriah: Maestro says the only place the info has been let out was in the Beta Server meeting. I have not seen it hit the wiki yet.
[16:15] Rex Cronon: if your list has over500 entries, won't that be a problem for lsl?
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: naa
[16:15] Pauline Darkfury: It can't have over 500 right now, that's a different problem
[16:15] Vincent Nacon: LSL can handle more than 5,000 keys
[16:15] Pauline Darkfury: The LSL access function could just page through it, provide an offset and limit in the call
[16:16] Rex Cronon: depends on the size of script
[16:16] Pauline Darkfury: LSL lists end up maxing 64kB around 500 keys, if you want much other code, tbh
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: soon as LSL detected a key that "should be banned" in a list, can just remove someone and add that person to the ban list for the moment
[16:16] Pauline Darkfury: That's if you represent them 1 list item per key, in a global list
[16:16] Moundsa Mayo: Yeah, have to use multiple storage scripts with minimal interface
[16:16] Vincent Nacon: yeah but one script is enough
[16:17] Vincent Nacon: unless your sim is very very very popular
[16:17] Jonathan Yap: I put in a jira a while ago about those lists no longer being in alphabetical order
[16:17] Moundsa Mayo: Well, clients want to handle full 300 count possible in BanList.
[16:17] Kallista Destiny: or very very unpopular
[16:17] Pauline Darkfury: The problem is not so much storing the list in LSL memory, it's having absolutely no way to process the current contents of it, other than manually through a dreadful interface
[16:17] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, AccessList too.
[16:18] Leonel Iceghost: will you allow accesslist functions? that would be awersome
[16:18] Moundsa Mayo: Right, Pauline - i had to maintain shadow lists in LSL.
[16:19] Jonathan Yap: It was also pointed out that a ban trumps an entry in the allow access list
[16:19] Pauline Darkfury: Ban trumping allow isn't a big deal, is it?
[16:19] Andrew Linden: Dunno what the plans are for expanding estate LSL calls.
[16:19] Jonathan Yap: No, just something that should be documented
[16:19] Vincent Nacon: btw Andrew, turns out that I do really need that Angular motor in vehicle limit lifted, will make a JIRA request afterward.
[16:20] Moundsa Mayo: It's a logical inconsistence - access sstate should be linked.
[16:20] Pauline Darkfury: The other problem with estate lists that's pretty huge for big estates, is the "Some access list somewhere is full, so your all estates ban failed, but we're not going to tell you which of 200 estates is full"
[16:20] Andrew Linden: Uh... I don't know if it can be lifted.
[16:20] Andrew Linden: We currently clamp it.
[16:20] Leonel Iceghost: can you make a script to activate and deactivate "allow push" in a parcel?
[16:20] Leonel Iceghost: that would be great for games
[16:20] Andrew Linden: If you try to set it to 100 I think we clamp to max value.
[16:20] Vincent Nacon: I know but that's what beta is for. ;)
[16:21] Vincent Nacon: at least clamp it to the same limit as linear anyway
[16:21] Pauline Darkfury: Being able to enumerate the estate lists would at least allow us to auto-sanitise them, remove closed/grid-banned accounts, ancient bans, etc
[16:21] Vincent Nacon: instead of 1/4th of it
[16:21] Andrew Linden: so someone somewhere has made a vehicle that tries to set the angular motor too high... and it gets clamped, and it works correctly.
[16:21] Andrew Linden: If I raise the clamp then that vehicle will break.
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: yeah but... that spin rate is too high for any vehicle anyway
[16:22] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, would have to add an 'intentional overdrive' option to prevent breaking existing content.
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: hardly "breaking" anything
[16:22] Andrew Linden: yes but... if you set some of the other params low then the high spin rate is not very effective
[16:22] Moundsa Mayo: Options upon options upon ooptios B^)
[16:22] Vincent Nacon: or simply not a very bright scripter, whom ever got broken from it
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: I dunno about that
[16:23] Andrew Linden: Vincent, why do you need higher spin rates?
[16:23] Vincent Nacon: it just doesn't seem very likely that anyone use the current max spin rate
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: because I have a vehicle that counter its own force for a proper steering ratio from the rear wheel instead of from the center
[16:24] Andrew Linden: the max spin rate is something like 2 rotations per second, or maybe it is 4 rotations. Not sure.
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: and this counter force is limiting the spin rate
[16:24] Vincent Nacon: down by a half
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: it'
[16:25] Andrew Linden: right, so you want to over rotate it to defeat what is stopping it.
[16:25] Andrew Linden: the SL vehicle parameters interfere with each other, so they are very touchy
[16:25] Vincent Nacon: it's one of those "work around" for something would take you more effort to give me what I need than raising the limit
[16:26] Andrew Linden: you can crank up angular friction to make it slow, then boost the angular motor to make it fast again
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: I know they're very touchy
[16:26] Andrew Linden: but you eventually bump against the clamped limit
[16:26] Vincent Nacon: not eventually.... all the time
[16:27] Andrew Linden: which means other vehicle creators are doing the same thing: specifying a much-too-big angular motor
[16:27] Andrew Linden: just to get the right (slower) turn speed
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: that's the thing.... they should know the limit
[16:27] Andrew Linden: which means: if I move the clamped limit then someone's balance will break
[16:27] Vincent Nacon: even I've had friends who put 99999999 in their value
[16:27] Andrew Linden: and the vehicle will start spinning like mad
[16:28] lonetorus Habilis: so a new fixed function then?
[16:28] Andrew Linden: I wouldn't be surprised if vehicle creators don't really know the limit, but just fiddle with parameters until they get something that works.
[16:28] Vincent Nacon: I know.... the current limit is still high.... hardly make any difference for those who need that
[16:28] Andrew Linden: Vehicle tuning really is an inexact science.
[16:28] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: I only need it for the force instead of speed
[16:29] Andrew Linden: Yeah, or a new fixed vehicle API.
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: I dunno about that
[16:29] lonetorus Habilis: another reason why a best pactice documentation would be really useful from the lab
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: I spent 3 years on it
[16:29] Andrew Linden: Falcon is motivated to provide better vehicles, but he hasn't been able to get to it yet.
[16:29] lonetorus Habilis: i have been asking the mesh lindens for this since the closed beta XD
[16:29] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: there's a lot of work to be done with new vehicle api but I'm only asking for one simple thing
[16:30] Leonel Iceghost: we would love to see some vehicles like in GTA for example
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: aye
[16:30] Vincent Nacon: I know Falcon wants that too
[16:30] Leonel Iceghost: they react very well
[16:31] lonetorus Habilis: in other games vehicle mass often changes depending on if the vehicle is on the road or making a jump
[16:31] Vincent Nacon: we need Joint back again before we can start on new vehicle api
[16:31] Andrew Linden: Yeah, a new API would be the way to go. I dread fighting with the current vehicle system -- I can only lose that battle by breaking lots of stuff.
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: I know but what I'm asking is a very small thing... I'm willing to test out a lot of vehicles on the beta
[16:32] lonetorus Habilis: i wonder how ong the list of lsl functions will be in a few years XD
[16:32] Andrew Linden: lonetorus is right. Making fun game vehicle physics requires a bunch of hacks.
[16:32] lonetorus Habilis: long
[16:32] Vincent Nacon: yeah, got few hacks already
[16:33] Andrew Linden: Typically vehicles are made very heavy so they stick to the road better, and fall faster than real vehicles.
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: which make me want to smack the person who came up with that idea
[16:33] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:33] Andrew Linden: And when they jump they usually have a stabilizing force to help prevent them from tumbling.
[16:34] Kallista Destiny: Aerodynamics, lets make it really complicated.
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: no no no....
[16:34] lonetorus Habilis: yeah we want physical wind back ;)
[16:34] Vincent Nacon: I already wrote myself a air friction aerodynamics and it's too much
[16:34] Rex Cronon: can we do a roll with a car:)
[16:34] Leonel Iceghost: Andrew are you talking about this, or other games?
[16:34] Andrew Linden: Well, a new vehicle API that used havok vehicles, for example, would require a bunch of UI options.
[16:35] lonetorus Habilis: but it would make good vehicles i suspect XD
[16:35] Andrew Linden: Because the havok vehicle API expects wheels to be specified, and the various shock spring constants
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: well that's depends on how things meant to put together
[16:35] lonetorus Habilis: havok more than likely already thought hard on making a good vehicle system XD
[16:35] Vincent Nacon: as for wheel spectifation.... assigned that with linknumber
[16:36] Andrew Linden: Yeah, we'd have to either give creators full access to all the parameters and assumptions of the API, or come up with some way to simplify it.
[16:36] Leonel Iceghost: don't simplify, just give us full power :P
[16:36] lonetorus Habilis: thats like sculpties vs mesh XD
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: but yeah, a very importance meeting for vehicle will have to come later
[16:36] Vincent Nacon: when the developers are ready for it
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: doubt Francis would do any good this year.
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: I dunno about Les... he's kinda long gone
[16:37] Vincent Nacon: Raver.... let's not think about him for now
[16:37] lonetorus Habilis: mesh is a enourmous leap forward in posibilities and features, but that also comes with greater responsibility to the creators, though largely and forcefully regulated by the much hated PE. err Land Impact
[16:38] Gfresh Botha: hey sorry to interrupt, could ask I quick question before I have to go?
[16:38] Vincent Nacon: ask away
[16:38] Andrew Linden: yes, ask
[16:38] Gfresh Botha: I heard you talking about banlists and my ears pricked up
[16:38] Gfresh Botha: Do any of you know about the Justice League group?
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: LSL function for ban list, to add and remove and clear, it's on BlueSteel
[16:39] Nalates Urriah: I think most of us have heard of it.
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: let's not talk about Justice League
[16:39] Andrew Linden: I'm not sure I've heard of Justice League. Are they like the Green Lanterns?
[16:39] Vincent Nacon: they are, except they are bunch of wannabe kids
[16:39] lonetorus Habilis: yeah except more backstabbing and drama attracting
[16:39] lonetorus Habilis: XD
[16:39] Andrew Linden: ok, so super hero roll playing
[16:40] Nalates Urriah: If you are looking for information rad the Alphaville Harold
[16:40] Gfresh Botha: something like that, it was brought to my attention lately that I'm on ban lists for being associated with "known grifefers"
[16:40] Gfresh Botha: but I see you're aware of it
[16:40] Nalates Urriah: rad =read
[16:40] Rex Cronon: some say they r vigilantes others say that they r heroes:)
[16:40] Andrew Linden: Gfresh, this would be some Resident shared ban list?
[16:41] Gfresh Botha: I think it's something to do with the "land security" things they sell
[16:41] Rex Cronon: andrew. somebody infiltrated them and posted their db
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: no worry, long as the script is the same owner of the estate
[16:41] Vincent Nacon: no one can abuse it
[16:42] lonetorus Habilis: or estate manager
[16:42] Gfresh Botha: I found out when I realised I couldn't enter certain places, then someone showed me the list of names they have and what "crimes" they have comitted. I was on it for knowing the wrong people
[16:42] Gfresh Botha: lol
[16:42] Andrew Linden: Ok so your question Gfresh? LL doesn't maintain or involve itself in those shared banlists.
[16:42] Kallista Destiny: Known Griefers? Like Lindens amd Goreans?
[16:42] Gfresh Botha: lol Kallista
[16:42] Vincent Nacon: it would be a perfect replacement for RedLine system
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: or was it RedZone?
[16:43] Nalates Urriah: ...Zone
[16:43] lonetorus Habilis: redzone by surefire zue
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:43] Jonathan Yap: The Red Line is part of the Boston subway system :P
[16:43] Andrew Linden: Doe the banlist creators have a method for disputing the list?
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:43] Gfresh Botha: Sorry Andrew I was just trying to work out if this Justice League are linked to LL in any way
[16:43] Moundsa Mayo: "Here, buy this and help us grief!" DERP!
[16:43] Vincent Nacon: I'm sure there are a way to do that, Andrew
[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: No, Andrew, the list is a grid-wide way for personal grudges to deny people access to stuff and start drama, or that's my take on it
[16:44] Andrew Linden: No, LL is not affiliated with the Justice League.
[16:44] Nalates Urriah: Andrew as best we can tell no means of getting off the list. If they think you are a griefer, you are a griefer.
[16:44] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, not the new generation of shared lists, they have largely turned out to be used unfairly and to harvest data on ppl
[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: It's not breaking ToS, since people can ban based on any reason, including "because I feel like it"
[16:44] Pauline Darkfury: I'm just a non-believer in big shared ban lists
[16:44] Nalates Urriah: There is a whole new round of drama going on about the JLU.
[16:45] lonetorus Habilis: ...besides denying areast to overly worried shop and estate owners XD
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: better believe it, Pauline
[16:45] Rex Cronon: u have to request a meeting with kalel;) i think
[16:45] lonetorus Habilis: areas
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: it'll happen and it'll happen fast
[16:45] Gfresh Botha: the problem being they seem to be selling these security products with the descriminate ban lists in them
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: why not?
[16:45] Pauline Darkfury: No thanks, I'll remain a non-believer, and do my own banning, thanks
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: what kind of person ended up on that list anyway?
[16:45] Gfresh Botha: me
[16:45] Moundsa Mayo: In my opinion the worst thing about all that is the loss of revenue to the platform I use by choice.
[16:45] Vincent Nacon: good job
[16:45] Gfresh Botha: and many good scripters and builders I know
[16:45] Kennylex Luckless: Ban, ban lineas ans Security orbs do some time feels like grief.
[16:46] Kallista Destiny: For some small value of grief, it is
[16:47] Rex Cronon: i have a little question about havok.
[16:47] Nalates Urriah: Vincent, the current drama is mostly about who is on the list and how they got there. Say anything against the League and you are added to the list and supposedly AB campaings are launched agaist you.
[16:47] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, but i think one of the isseues here is the relatively long wait for the fix on estate bans not being effective, it left room for these ban systems?
[16:47] Nalates Urriah: AB=AR
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: I know, and it's unavoidable
[16:47] Rex Cronon: can havok determine the center of mass of a falling object, so that the center of mass rotates when falling toward the ground?
[16:47] Vincent Nacon: part of human nature
[16:47] Kennylex Luckless: It so fun when you fly at 2.500m and run in to a sko box the kick you away home.
[16:47] Andrew Linden: Yes, you could be right lonetorus. It sounds like there is a feature vacuum in Estate security.
[16:47] Kennylex Luckless: sky.
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: hmm
[16:48] lonetorus Habilis: rex, that implies wind resistance
[16:48] Andrew Linden: No Rex, havok's dynamics mirror those of the real world in that respect
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: what kind of question is that, Rex?
[16:48] Vincent Nacon: it's always the cente of mass
[16:48] Andrew Linden: falling objects accelerate linearly... as if they were pushed at their center of mass, which produces no torque.
[16:49] Rex Cronon: if u ever tried making a mortar round u would know what my problem is
[16:49] Andrew Linden: what is that problem Rex?
[16:49] Rex Cronon: the mortar shell falls tail first. i have to use script to make it point to right direction
[16:49] lonetorus Habilis: rex, why dont you switch off physical status on some of the prims in the shell?
[16:50] Pauline Darkfury: The estate ban feature set really needs a complete overhaul. Speaking here as Senior EM for an Atlas estate, not being able to see who banned, when, and why, is a major pain. We need more than 500 entries, date & time for bans, temp bans/optional expiry, who put the ban in, and say around 80 chars of comment for each ban.
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: ahh
[16:50] lonetorus Habilis: or, did you try that, now withthe new feature
[16:50] Andrew Linden: so... there is a little know corner of the LSL vehicle possibility space...
[16:50] Rex Cronon: well it needs drag
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: air friction and aerodynamics
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: fun math
[16:50] Andrew Linden: Rex, you could make the mortor shells vehicles and only give them some... lemme fine the parameter
[16:50] lonetorus Habilis: that can be faked with some rotational impulse surely ;)
[16:50] Vincent Nacon: yeah
[16:51] Pauline Darkfury: If we can get suitable programmatic access to the list, we can do much of the extra features off-world, in our own DB, but ideally those features would be integrated into SL itself
[16:51] Rex Cronon: so, the mortar fires cars:)
[16:51] Vincent Nacon: a simple basic won't hurt long as you know how common it is
[16:51] Moundsa Mayo: yup
[16:51] lonetorus Habilis: no, vehicles
[16:51] lonetorus Habilis: a mortar shell is also i suppose a sort of vehicle, to deliver stuff
[16:51] Kallista Destiny: Reynolds numbers
[16:51] Moundsa Mayo: use Linear Deflection
[16:51] Andrew Linden: VEHICLE_ANGULAR_DEFLECTION_EFFICIENCY and _TIMESCALE
[16:52] Rex Cronon: i feel weird about making a shell that is a vehicle
[16:52] Andrew Linden: No, I think LINEAR_DEFLECTION will tend to redirect the vehicle to slide along a preferred direction
[16:52] Jonathan Yap: A good use for client-side scripting: export text in a specified floater's text/line editor box
[16:52] Vincent Nacon: if it make you feel better... the vehicle param in SL isn't really vehicle at all
[16:52] Moundsa Mayo: Oh yeah
[16:52] Andrew Linden: as if it had rails, or wheels that roll in a preferred direction
[16:52] Kallista Destiny: What flavor of Mortar shell, rifled or fined?
[16:53] Rex Cronon: no rotation
[16:53] Andrew Linden: the angular deflection will reorient the vehicle to point in the direction that it is moving
[16:53] Andrew Linden: so... like throwing a dart with fins in the back
[16:53] Rex Cronon: i guess i will have to try "VEHICLE_ANGULAR_DEFLECTION_EFFICIENCY and _TIMESCALE"
[16:53] Vincent Nacon: how about this....
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: instead of using vehicle... use velocity
[16:54] Andrew Linden: yeah, disable everything else
[16:54] Rex Cronon: because even with script correction sometimes if it hits something starts rotating like crazy
[16:54] Rex Cronon: thank u:)
[16:54] Vincent Nacon: Norm the vector from velocity to give you point of direction
[16:55] Gfresh Botha: Thanks for your time guys, see you around!
[16:55] Rex Cronon: tc
[16:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: then you can use that to applyimpulserotation
[16:55] Rex Cronon: i did something like that vincent, but is not failproof
[16:55] Vincent Nacon: bad scripter!
[16:55] Eolene Uralia: whew
[16:55] Eolene Uralia: is this a meeting
[16:55] Eolene Uralia: ?
[16:56] Nalates Urriah: yep
[16:56] Kallista Destiny: Yes
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: it won't be in 5 minutes
[16:56] Andrew Linden: Yes Eolene. This is the Server User Group meeting.
[16:56] lonetorus Habilis: so, i think i have a question aswell, how would i go about making a cross sim autonomous vehicle (preferably non phys since lag could throw it off course) one of my main worries is script danger and prim entry permissions on parcels, but its my understanding this is not fullfeatured, broken, or bugged as it stands currently, anyone know where or what i should take a look at to progress with my project?
[16:56] Rex Cronon: the sim is too slow. espeically if u fire a few hundred mortar shells:)
[16:56] Eolene Uralia: can I oin in?
[16:56] Moundsa Mayo: e need to be able to extract enough vehicle data to implement crude PID or at least PI functions.
[16:56] Pauline Darkfury: this is the LL server office hour / user group, Eolene
[16:56] Eolene Uralia: ah ok
[16:56] Andrew Linden: We're talking about the SL server feature set, and bugs therein.
[16:56] Pauline Darkfury: it's nearly finished, 1600-1700 Fridays (and 1200-1300 Tuesdays)
[16:56] Vincent Nacon: if the sim is too slow, then you're spamming too much
[16:56] Gfresh Botha: hey Eo
[16:56] Eolene Uralia: hey gfresh
[16:57] Eolene Uralia: I am here t talk about something really important
[16:57] Gfresh Botha: oh god
[16:57] Vincent Nacon: what is it?
[16:57] Andrew Linden: What might that be?
[16:57] Rex Cronon: didn't u read " a few hundred":)
[16:57] Arawn Spitteler: For a multi sim route, I'd suggest a series of way-points.
[16:57] Jonathan Yap: What are PID functions?
[16:57] Andrew Linden: "PID functions" ?
[16:57] lonetorus Habilis: arawan, it has to be able to navigate on its own, not a preprogrammed path
[16:57] Eolene Uralia: well, you know, when there is a celebration in the real world.. there is always a streaker down the street. people laugh and point and leave them be. why can it not be so in SL
[16:58] Moundsa Mayo: Control functions to keep changes n condtions on a specified path in response to environmental conditions
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: wrong kind of meeting, Eolene
[16:58] Gfresh Botha: yas
[16:58] Trash Deluxe: is this about the JLU?
[16:58] Gfresh Botha: Try Teeple Linden
[16:58] Jonathan Yap: Moundsa, are you aware of the upcoming pathfinder project?
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: Andrew doesn't have the time to deal with idiots
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: If it's a policy thing, you need a different meeting
[16:58] Pauline Darkfury: This is tech server stuff here
[16:58] Eolene Uralia: and who is the idiot?
[16:58] Vincent Nacon: yeah, I think you need..... ahh what's her name?
[16:58] Gfresh Botha: I'm leaving!
[16:58] Arawn Spitteler: If Andrew can deal with the rest of us, he can deal with you.
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: seeya Gfresh
[16:59] Nalates Urriah: PID... Process ID ?
[16:59] Eolene Uralia: I am confused
[16:59] Arawn Spitteler: Welcome, Eo
[16:59] Moundsa Mayo: pROPORTIONAL iNTEGRAL dERIVATIVE.
[16:59] Moundsa Mayo: oops, caps
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups
[16:59] Trash Deluxe: me too, i thought this was about the vigilante griefers
[16:59] Moundsa Mayo: nope
[16:59] Nalates Urriah: Thx Moundsa
[16:59] Andrew Linden: I don't mind the question, but I'm not sure I understood it.
[16:59] Vincent Nacon: look at the chart to see what meeting you should attend for that matter
[16:59] lonetorus Habilis: llScriptDanger seems a bit inadequate imo
[16:59] Pauline Darkfury: Andrew is a VIP Linden, but he doesn't set policy as such
[16:59] Eolene Uralia: I wanted to streak a meeting to be honest in SL... have always wanted to... a lifes dream... and I wondered if there would be reprecussions in doing that to be honest. just for art reasons and making a movie
[17:00] Andrew Linden: What I heard was "why can't we have more streakers in SL?"
[17:00] Trash Deluxe: lol eo
[17:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[17:00] Pauline Darkfury: lol
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: you might need Lexie Linden's meeting
[17:00] Rex Cronon: this is usually about the inner working of the sim/server
[17:00] Andrew Linden: Oh I see. You're asking permission to streak this meeting?
[17:00] lonetorus Habilis: eo, we get nude freenis equipped newbs here once in a while XD
[17:00] Eolene Uralia: yes
[17:00] Eolene Uralia: I am
[17:00] Trash Deluxe: lol
[17:00] Vincent Nacon: or Viale Linden's
[17:00] Andrew Linden: Sure, go ahead.
[17:00] Pauline Darkfury: lol
[17:00] Eolene Uralia: thank you :)
[17:00] Eolene Uralia: let me get changed
[17:00] Vincent Nacon whispers: np
[17:00] Eolene Uralia: in better skin
[17:01] Rex Cronon: haha
[17:01] Jonathan Yap: Eolene, Andrew will send you to The Corn Field, too
[17:01] Andrew Linden: No repurcussions from me. Just don't drop any lag bombs.
[17:01] Trash Deluxe: can you please ban the slpd tho?
[17:01] Trash Deluxe: lol
[17:01] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, Jonothan. No idea how much we'll be able to interact with 'pathfinder' versus just setting it running.
[17:01] Andrew Linden: That reminds me... The Corn Field is due for another visit soon.
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: oh I've made few visual lag bomb.... like to see them?
[17:01] Andrew Linden: Surely we should visit it in October.
[17:01] Vincent Nacon: :P
[17:01] Trash Deluxe: oh yeah it reopens at halloween?
[17:01] Eolene Uralia: ok I am ready
[17:02] Eolene Uralia: have I rezzed?
[17:02] Jonathan Yap: Maybe you can fix the url in the tv sets before hand
[17:02] Pauline Darkfury: Oh, speaking of the cornfield, there's a 4 region haloween cornfield appeared
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Yes, you're without clothes Eolene.
[17:02] Trash Deluxe: omg streaker!
[17:02] Eolene Uralia: ok great
[17:02] Moundsa Mayo: AGGHHH, IT'S A ***STREAKER***!
[17:02] Eolene Uralia: can I sit on your lap and take one pic?
[17:02] Trash Deluxe: call the SLPF!
[17:02] Kallista Destiny: EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKK!!!!!
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Wait... she's wearing curlers.
[17:02] Andrew Linden: Do those count?
[17:02] Eolene Uralia: I made this skin and I am proud of it
[17:02] Vincent Nacon: sure why not
[17:02] Trash Deluxe: boo..curlers...cheat
[17:03] Eolene Uralia: ok bald
[17:03] Andrew Linden: There, that's better.
[17:03] Kallista Destiny: Curlers are beter
[17:03] Andrew Linden: Thanks for coming everyone.
[17:03] Moundsa Mayo: Andrew, thanks for yout time and hard work!
[17:03] Nalates Urriah: Pretty good old person skin.
[17:03] Rex Cronon: these OHs seem to get better and better:)
[17:03] Eolene Uralia: hanks
[17:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Enjoy your weekend, Andrew.
[17:03] Kallista Destiny: Thank you Andrew for a most interesting meeting
[17:03] Eolene Uralia: I am proud of it
[17:03] Rex Cronon: tc andrew
[17:03] Eolene Uralia: took a long time
[17:03] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, this is what you talked about last week?
[17:04] Eolene Uralia: thanks my work is done
[17:04] Eolene Uralia: see ya
[17:04] Pauline Darkfury: Take care, Andrew, have a good weekend :)
[17:04] lonetorus Habilis: andrew, arrangeing stuff for your oh's
[17:04] Nalates Urriah: Bye
[17:04] Trash Deluxe: And Andrew...please sort out the SLPD lol
[17:04] Eolene Uralia: thank you andrew and all
[17:04] lonetorus Habilis: *grins*
[17:04] Rex Cronon: he is going to give fines to the slpd:)
[17:04] Andrew Linden: They aren't always this entertaining.
[17:04] Trash Deluxe: stop them griefing our sims and doing magnum PI impersonations
[17:05] Rex Cronon: revoke their license:)
[17:05] Arawn Spitteler: That doesn't sound like Griefers, so much as Nerds.
[17:05] Trash Deluxe: lol
[17:05] Moundsa Mayo: Magnm PI? That's their own punishment right there!
[17:05] Trash Deluxe: lol
[17:05] Moundsa Mayo: Magnm PI? That's their own punishment right there!
[17:06] Arawn Spitteler: Should someone really be counted a Griefer, if people just don't like his Magnum PU Imitation?
[17:06] Andrew Linden: griefing can be a subtle art
[17:06] lonetorus Habilis: if only your avareage grifer knew that fact ;)
[17:07] lonetorus Habilis: they tend to be loud and in your face a lot
[17:07] Trash Deluxe: well if they're running around in a sandbox, saying, 'maam, i am compiling a crime database' and ARing some noob who's just rezzed 8 cabins, yeah
[17:07] Andrew Linden: how successful it is can depend on the artistic esthetic of the audience
[17:07] Arawn Spitteler: I think I've actually killed people, with my cheerful ersonality.
[17:07] Pavl Duke: I would think the easiest, and possibly most effective method of griefing would be to form overlong sentences that don't actually....
[17:07] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, I've been meaning to talk to you about that, Arawn ...
[17:07] Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[17:08] Andrew Linden: personally, I like puns and Arawn's non-sequiturs
Simulator_User_Group
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