Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-08-04

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on August 04th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* This week wasn't as painful as some of the other weeks lately.
=== Updates ===
* Introducing Mercille Linden
* Second Life Server (main channel)
* This is the "Improved HTTP service" project from Magnum.
* We reorganized the structure of various webservices hosted on the simhosts. In particular those associated with servicing a Capabilities requests. These are involved in operations such as HTTP Texture fetch, some inventory operations and uploading of assets.
* These changes may also improve the following JIRA's
** VWR-25940 - "HTTP communication with grid capabilities router is unreliable at times affecting HTTP Textures"
*** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25940
** SVC-6546 - "HTTP-IN URL's dropped after certain period"
*** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6546
** VWR-25426 - "'Friendlist displays users as Unknown or (loading), teleports fail, assets will not save"
*** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-25426
** SVC-6875 - "'Failed to grant capabilities?"
*** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6875
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.07.27.237011
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This is a "maint-server" project. 
** New Features
*** Enhancements for marketplace item delivery.
** Bug Fixes
*** Fix for "Granting/revoking perms broken for non-web-profile viewers"
*** Fix for "(Spanish) [DATE I18N] Date in English in Group profile > Terreno/Bienes > L$ del grupo > Detalles tab and Ventas tab"
*** Fix for "Postcards sent from LeTigre sims fail with error code also can not upload sound files on LeTigre"
*** Fix for "France Villas Sim, we have been having MAJOR issues on this sim since the last update on the Havok software..We presently have 4 open tickets on it and TJ linden said to file a bug report"
*** Changed logging for TIMEWARP issues.
*** Removed some unused IM code.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.08.02.237522
* LeTigre RC Channel
** This is the "Mesh" project!
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.08.02.237549
* Magnum RC Channel
** This is identical to the LeTigre channel and Mesh is enabled here as well.
** This was to be a scripting maint-server branch but it didn't pass QA in time.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.08.02.237549
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* Scripting maint-server
** New Features
*** Allow scripters to set a lower memory limit on mono scripts
***: integer llSetMemoryLimit(integer limit) Set the maximum memory a script can use to limit. 
*** Ability to set prim media on linked prims without sleeping the script.
***: integer llSetLinkMedia(integer link, integer side, list params) Equivalent to llSetPrimMediaParams called on link prim in the link set.
***: list llGetLinkMedia(integer link, integer side, list params) Equivalent to llGetPrimMediaParams called on link prim in the link set.
***: integer llClearLinkMedia(integer link, integer side) Equivalent to llClearPrimMedia called on link prim in the link set.
*** llSetLinkCamera
***: llSetLinkCamera(integer link, vector eye, vector at) Equivalent to calling both llSetCameraEyeOffset and llSetCameraAtOffset on link prim in the link set.
*** Allow HTML in llHTTPResponses to browsers embedded in viewers for content you own
***: llSetContentType(key request_id, integer content_type)
***:* CONTENT_TYPE_TEXT (default) "text/plain"
***:* CONTENT_TYPE_HTML "text/html", only valid for embedded browsers on content owned by the person viewing. Falls back to "text/plain" otherwise.
*** Extend llGetLocalPos function to llGet*PrimitiveParams under PRIM_POS_LOCAL
***: PRIM_POS_LOCAL Sets and gets the 'local' position via llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast and related.
*** llLinkSitTarget, llAvatarOnLinkSitTarget
***: llLinkSitTarget(integer link, vector offset, rotation rot) Equivalent to calling llSitTarget on link prim in the link set.
***: key llAvatarOnLinkSitTarget() Equivalent to calling llAvatarOnSitTarget on link prim in the link set.
*** Add llSetVelocity() and llSetAngularVelocity() functions to LSL
***: llSetVelocity(vector force, integer local)
***: llSetRotationalVelocity(vector force, integer local)
*** Add ability for llSetLinkPrimitiveParams* and llGetLinkPrimitiveParams functions to switch link targets
***: [PRIM_LINK_TARGET, integer link_num] Will cause subsequent parameters to effect link_num prim independent of original prim being effected. Compatible with all PrimParams functions.
** Bug Fixes
*** Fix for "Reliable message RevokePermissions does not revoke permissions on objects that have been granted PERMISSION_TRIGGER_ANIMATION" 
*** Fix for llDialog spamming that cripples the viewer.
*** Fix to make shift copying copy all prim properties.
*** Fix to prevent LSL scripts from using non-finite numbers in physical functions.
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for August 04th, 2011:
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: welcome to the meeting everyone.
* [15:00] Liisa Runo: hiyas
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: we'll give a few minute sfor people to show up
* [15:00] Lares Carter: Heya Oskar
* [15:00] Draconis Neurocam: im pretty sure its a serpent, not a worm coyot
* [15:00] Mercille Linden: darn, I forgot my shark
* [15:00] Jacky Scharf: Hello Mercille. ㋡
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: then I will introduce our special guest
* [15:01] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar, Coyot, Mercille
* [15:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: well viewer-development build just got interesting today
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: I am having a lag tastic day :-(
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: Hi Psi
* [15:01] WolfPup Lowenhar: hello marcille
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: Mesh Project Viewer FTW!
* [15:02] Mercille Linden: ah, now I fit in
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: I did however start the day with the best cup of coffee I have had in a while
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: mmmm
* [15:02] Motor Loon: oh coffee... i forgot all about that... /me runs
* [15:02] WolfPup Lowenhar: Coyot there was a mesh release merge to viewer-development today
* [15:02] Coyot Linden: That's Dessie's dept. ;)
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: we do this meeting in txt Mercille
* [15:03] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: oh right Maestro is on vacation today
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: no wonder he hasn't responded to my pings :-)
* [15:03] Mercille Linden: yes
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I forgot
* [15:03] WolfPup Lowenhar: i know im an OS developer and do local builds of viewer-development for testing
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: sorry guys. no maestro today
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: alright
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: let's get this started
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: this week has been easier than the last few
* [15:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: Second Life 2.8.4 (112161225) Aug 4 2011 13:37:17 (Project Viewer - Mesh)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: still some scrambling on issues but not as aggressive as July was
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I expect good things from the rest of this month
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I will start this meeting with an introduction
* [15:04] Motor Loon: yaay
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: Mercille Linden is with us today
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: Hello Mercille. who ar eyou and what do you do?
* [15:05] Kallista Destiny: Welcome Mercille
* [15:05] Homeless: Hi Mercille
* [15:05] Jacky Scharf: Welcome Mercille. ㋡
* [15:05] Mercille Linden: thanks... I'm the engineering manager for the engine room - I think I need to get some striped coveralls for this job
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: lol
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:05] Motor Loon: Ey Mercille, welcome to the house of pain (not really, but it just sounds scary)
* [15:05] WolfPup Lowenhar: -*@ ROFL @*-
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: Mercille has been with us a little more than a month now right?
* [15:05] Kallista Destiny: chuckles, and an oil can
* [15:06] Homeless: how about a classic trek uniform?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: red shirt?
* [15:06] Mercille Linden: at any rate, we built an engine room estate to start building a mesh world and I'm working in my copious (ha) spare time on building a cool airship in 3DS Max
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: Captain! The sims, they canna take any more!
* [15:06] Homeless: lol just don't beam down
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: nice
* [15:06] Draconis Neurocam: woo linden content creators
* [15:06] Mercille Linden: so we'll see if I can manage to crash the world in the process
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: well Mercille this is a meeting I've held here for a few years now
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: These are SL's best and brightest :-D
* [15:07] Motor LoonMotor Loon pays Oskar 5$
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:07] Homeless: probably craziest too. where else would you find a homeless resident? lol
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: We start the meeting with a recap of the weeks releases
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: then go into upcoming stuff
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: then get into Q&A
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: welcome sigma
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: speaking of the agenda
* [15:08] Sigma Avro: Hello Oskar , hello Mercille
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: main channel got the "Improved HTTP service" project from Magnum Tuesday morning
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: rock on!
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: we've seen a slight increase in crashes that we are looking into
* [15:09] Kadah Coba: Yey
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: we track crashes via crash signatures
* [15:09] Motor Loon: we're talking sim crashes now yes?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: when certain signatures reach a noticeable level we file jira's for them
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: sim crashes
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: yes
* [15:10] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:10] Kallista Destiny: Are you gloing to call your Airship R-100 or R-101 ?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: then they get investigated and hopefully fixed
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: Just don't call it Hindenberg
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: she shoulc call it ER-101
* [15:10] Caleb Linden: Lindenberg
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: LOL
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:10] Motor Loon: ha!
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: oh caleb...
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: you had to go there
* [15:10] Sigma Avro: lol
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: and we had such high hopes for you
* [15:10] Pauline Darkfury: lol
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: R-100 was a succuss, R-101 was a disaster
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: rock on, caleb!
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: Lols
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: Lindenberg is a good name
* [15:11] Mercille Linden: I like Lindenberg
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: anyone noticed increases or decreases in performance for HTTP traffic since Tuesday on the main channel?
* [15:11] Homeless: Lindenburg would make a good name for a city
* [15:11] Melvin Starbrook: blocking
* [15:11] Kadah Coba: The R-101 made the Hindenberg look like a pony ride
* [15:12] Melvin Starbrook: trying out mesh :)
* [15:12] Melvin Starbrook: lol
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: I'm sure a lot of you have been playing with mesh lately
* [15:12] Jacky Scharf: Udo Lindenberg ...
* [15:13] Sigma Avro: problems when draw distnace is too small, rezing in adjacent sim may not be seen on viewer, one gets into water region with previous region tag, although on the new region pn map. MAybe viewer side ?
* [15:13] Kadah Coba: I haven't
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: as far as I an concerned no news is good news re: the http services release
* [15:13] Homeless: I can't... the SL website won't update my status even though I passed the test. It stays purple
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I don't know much about the signup process
* [15:13] Pauline Darkfury: Are you PIOF, Homeless?
* [15:13] Kadah Coba: The http services on the main channel?
* [15:13] Homeless: payment info is OK...
* [15:14] Homeless: green
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: I think there is a forums article in the mesh forums about what to do
* [15:14] Melvin Starbrook: omg.. this viewer is laggy..
* [15:14] Motor Loon: Probably because you didnt have an adresse to put there Homeless °͜°
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: Charlar mentioned something like that
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: LOL, Motor
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: sorry only residents with homes can upload
* [15:14] Melvin Starbrook: hope the 2.x series will get less laggy soon...
* [15:14] Homeless: would they take the address of a homeless shelter?
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: now if you were homely.resident
* [15:15] Homeless: lol :D
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: how about resident.evil
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: on to our RC channels
* [15:15] Melvin's Windup key: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: The BlueSteel RC got a much wanted maint-server
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: \o/
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: with a fix for SVC-7104
* [15:15] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7104] Granting/revoking perms broken for non-web-profile viewers https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7104
* [15:15] Flip Idlemind: So how long until we all start hearing the rumor that premium accounts with Linden Homes are required to upload mesh
* [15:15] Oskar LindenOskar Linden waits for the applause
* [15:16] Jacky Scharf: YAY! (yay!)
* [15:16] Melvin Starbrook: only premium accounts?
* [15:16] Motor LoonMotor Loon applauses!
* [15:16] Kadah CobaKadah Coba puts the pitch fork back in the shed :P
* [15:16] Coyot Linden: That's better
* [15:16] Melvin Starbrook: mesh is for everybody no?
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: the funniest part of that is that my workarounds mentioned a fake url my.secondlife.com/username
* [15:16] Flip Idlemind: Rumor successfully started
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: which it turns out there is a username.resident
* [15:16] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden trouts Flip
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: and he got tons of friend requests
* [15:16] Mercille LindenMercille Linden smacks flip with her tail
* [15:16] Kadah Coba: And a settings.resident
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: and people posting on his wall
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: about how upset they were
* [15:17] Pauline Darkfury: It might be that it's only FIC & potential-FIC accounts that can auto-signup :p
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:17] Motor Loon: lol..
* [15:17] Motor Loon: damn hackers
* [15:17] Kadah Coba: Poor settings.resident cant have a web profile, lol
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: now I have to explain what FIC is to Mercille later
* [15:17] Kadah Coba: FIC?
* [15:18] Pauline Darkfury: hehe
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: it's just a conspiracy theory ;-)
* [15:18] Kadah Coba: lol
* [15:18] Draconis Neurocam: feted inner core
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: Free Internet Cookies
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: anyways
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel
* [15:18] Motor LoonMotor Loon aint happy about the facebook-syndrome direction Second Life™ is heading in, but wife made me promise I wouldn't whine about it...
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: fixes
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: good things
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: will probably get the nod for promotion next week
* [15:19] Melvin Starbrook: which settings do i need to change to make things rezz as fast as in the old viewers? something is making 2.x very laggy for me :/
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I'm not sure
* [15:19] Motor Loon: try with or without HTTP textures mabye
* [15:19] Melvin Starbrook: http is allready turned off...
* [15:19] Melvin Starbrook: since i dont trust it lol
* [15:19] Kadah Coba: Turn it on
* [15:19] Motor Loon: yeah mabye thats the problem lol..
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: who doesn't trust http?
* [15:20] Kadah Coba: UDP textures are terrible
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: it's only everywere
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: Melvin, are you on a mac?
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: Http Textures is for some OS/Viewer combos a huge win , ofr others it's a disaster.
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: that's like saying you don't trust using parallel port printers
* [15:20] Melvin Starbrook: looks like a securiry hoe to me... but i turn on to see if things will become faster..
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: well let us know k
* [15:20] Mercille Linden: how do you see it as a security hole?
* [15:20] Melvin Starbrook: no im on windows vista
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: a security hoe :-D
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: k
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: gotta love that
* [15:20] Melvin Starbrook: hole :)
* [15:20] Oskar LindenOskar Linden tries not to snicker
* [15:20] Melvin Starbrook: lol
* [15:20] Motor Loon: damn hoes...
* [15:21] Kallista Destiny: for me on Vosta it's a majpr win
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: damn hoe, you so secure
* [15:21] Melvin Starbrook: hihii
* [15:21] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden fails to not snicker
* [15:21] Kallista Destiny: Vista
* [15:21] Kallista Destiny: Pfffffff to you all
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: ok ok
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: so
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel, yes.
* [15:21] Pauline Darkfury: It's really no more of a security hole than the entire viewer already is, tbh
* [15:21] Kadah CobaKadah Coba throws watermellon at oskar
* [15:21] Melvin Starbrook: but its secure? people cvant hck int my computer using http in sl?
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we also changed how we did logging for the TIMEWARP issue
* [15:21] Coyot Linden: mmm, watermelon
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we will figure that out eventually
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: it's been quite confusing
* [15:21] Mercille LindenMercille Linden flexes
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: No Melvin, thay can't
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: it's just a jump to the left
* [15:22] Kadah Coba: Its doing the TIMEWARP again?
* [15:22] Coyot Linden: And then a step to the right
* [15:22] Melvin Starbrook: okies :)
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: I don't think so melvin. it's just a different protocol for transferring information
* [15:22] Melvin Starbrook: not with addieng cookies and things?
* [15:22] Pauline Darkfury: HTTP textures doesn't open any inbound type stuff to your viewer, it just makes it download texture files as a HTTP client, same as downloading files via your web browser
* [15:22] Motor Loon: its not webpages Melvin
* [15:22] Melvin Starbrook: i once entered a region and they did watnt to load the logiun page of sl
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: it's not related to cookies
* [15:23] Kallista Destiny: You're not setting up an HTTP server, but sre revieving txtures using HTTP
* [15:23] Melvin Starbrook: ok
* [15:23] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden tossed all of his cookies
* [15:23] Motor Loon: like having the textures arrive by freeway instead of highway...
* [15:23] Kadah Coba: Cookie salad
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: at it's simplest HTTP is just what it says "Hyper-Text Transfer Protocol"
* [15:23] Mercille Linden: without potholes
* [15:23] Melvin Starbrook: okies :)
* [15:23] Coyot Linden: secure potholes?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: it's web sites that add the cookie stuff to web browsers
* [15:23] HomelessHomeless ate all his cookins
* [15:23] Melvin Starbrook: running through settings.. turning it on :))
* [15:23] Kallista Destiny: Mmmmmmmm cookies
* [15:24] Oskar LindenOskar Linden hacks into Melvins computer
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: KIDDING!!!
* [15:24] Motor LoonMotor Loon now hacks Melvins machine via http
* [15:24] Motor Loon: ah too slow
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I got that joke out first
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I am quick on the draw
* [15:24] Kadah CobaKadah Coba steals oskars cookies
* [15:24] Pauline Darkfury: and, tbh, HTTP is the wrong name for it these days, it should be something like RPC+FTP_protocol
* [15:24] Motor Loon: I bet you have a hotkey for that Oskar
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:24] Melvin Starbrook: wow
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: 
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: me sends an SQL injection to Melvin's computer
* [15:24] Melvin Starbrook: working that fast
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: bad connection from beta to Melvin home. You are perfectly rezed for us
* [15:24] Melvin Starbrook: peopl starting having collors now
* [15:25] Mercille LindenMercille Linden corrects oskar's script
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: thanks mercille
* [15:25] Melvin Starbrook: my connection is ok :)
* [15:25] Mercille LindenMercille Linden :s/relative/relevant
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: ok then. let's get on to the meat of the releases this week
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: Oh Melvin, try changing your gtoup tag.
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: MESH LIVE IN AN RC ON AGNI?!!
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: WHAT YOU SAY?
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: Magnm....
* [15:25] Kadah Coba: More bugs
* [15:25] Kadah Coba: s/bugs/features
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: LeTigre and Magnum BOTH have the Mesh server with Mesh enabled
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: magnum
* [15:25] Liisa Runo: yay for 64m prims ❤
* [15:26] Kallista Destiny: 64 M prims?
* [15:26] Mercille LindenMercille Linden likes Evile Cat
* [15:26] Motor Loon: what RC it gonna be?
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: this has been a HUGE process
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: LeTigre and Magnum
* [15:26] Motor Loon: oh you said...
* [15:26] Liisa Runo: yea, Mesh RC sims allow 64m prims to be created
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: it's on LeTigre and Magnum now
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: Huge doesn't even begin to describe it
* [15:26] Motor Loon: I love that you are working fast... with mesh... but not too fast eh? °͜°
* [15:26] Melvin Starbrook: wooot resiabe mega prims :))
* [15:26] Homeless: death to mega-prims at last!
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: we have spent untold numbers of hours the last few weeks trying to shape it up into a suitable release candidate
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: it's been painful, as some of you are aware
* [15:27] Motor Loon: 64m limits almost as big as mesh °͜°
* [15:27] Flip Idlemind: So if you take a 64 meters mesh and move it off the Mesh RC...how many things explode / catch fire
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: it's already being done Flip
* [15:27] Oskar LindenOskar Linden gets his fire extinguisher ready
* [15:27] Flip Idlemind: Ok, how many things are exploding / catching fire
* [15:27] Kadah Coba: 64m prims are less limiting than mesh :P
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: not much
* [15:27] Pauline Darkfury: I have to admit, I'm a touch concerned about it going to a much wider RC while there's some potentially huge issues with unintentional mass object return, if you push the wrong button on an object
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: nothing as far as I can tell
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: some new crash modes, but the cases are minimal
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it'll be a growing pain Pauline.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: FWIW the sandboxes are open and available
* [15:28] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden hopes it will be a *decreasing* pain
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: or make your mistakes on ADITI
* [15:28] Liisa Runo: earlier i noticed that Magnum release notes listed the new LSL stuff to be rolled this week. But then the page got changed to mesh roll. What is with the LSL stuff? Next week? (/me holds breath)
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: that was a mistake Liisa
* [15:29] Kadah Coba: Sandboxes? But I do my business there D:
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: it didn't pass QA
* [15:29] Pauline Darkfury: It's not my mistakes, it's the potential for one clueless tenant to cause major issues and even RL financial loss for 20 other tenants in the same region
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: perhaps
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: hopefully
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: we'll know next week
* [15:29] Melvin Starbrook: my svren is reezin all te time... turnng http textures off again:/
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: more than likely though
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: grab a seat Lady Chayoo
* [15:30] Motor Loon: The LINK sittarget etc stuff is very interesting!
* [15:30] Holger Gilruth: she try :)
* [15:30] Lady Chayoo: thy
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: heh ok
* [15:30] Motor Loon: Its wonderful to see how much you are giving attention on allowing us to lower scripts in objects
* [15:30] Pauline Darkfury: Fortunately for me, my rental regions where free prims are in shorter supply are not on LeTigre or Magnum, but I pity any landlords that are in that situation on mainland
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: if you look further down in the agenda you will see what the scripting maint-server contains
* [15:30] Flip Idlemind: I literally had a dream on Tuesday night that I was using PRIM_LINK_TARGET...then I woke up to find my dream had not come true :O
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: sorry Flip
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I'll tell kelly you dream about him though
* [15:31] Kallista Destiny: I fund that I am unable to dream programs.
* [15:31] Motor Loon: We all do Oskar
* [15:31] Motor Loon: °͜°
* [15:31] Motor Loon: Kelly is such a sexy little man
* [15:31] Kallista Destiny: They always crash
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: alright then motor
* [15:32] Flip Idlemind: Hmm, my dreams are the only place programs don't crash
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: the other day I dreamt that my beard fell off in the shower
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: and then for some reason I had a full head of hair
* [15:32] Melvin Starbrook: really wish this viewer was working for me :/
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: and it was black and slicked back
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: then I realized I was Steven Seagal
* [15:32] Sigma Avro: haha
* [15:32] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny never dreams about having a beard.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: no one noticed
* [15:33] Motor LoonMotor Loon beard is getting long enough to braid soon
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: aww
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: post a pic
* [15:33] Motor LoonMotor Loon looks at his profile pic, which is getting old
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: alright. so that's kinda what we got going on
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: monty said he'd have some stuff to share next week
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: also, if you've noticed group chat is getting kind of laggy again
* [15:34] Motor Loon: good stuff or bad stuff?
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: but we kinda knew that would happen eventually
* [15:34] Motor Loon: oh yes... since the roll
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: we just didn't know how soon
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it's not roll related
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it's load related
* [15:34] Motor Loon: well, we started noticing it there
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: they really can only handle a finite number of simultaneous chatting
* [15:34] Melvin Starbrook: iwhen turning off http my screen freezes less
* [15:35] Pauline DarkfuryPauline Darkfury wonders how much group chat lag is caused by spambots?
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: we opened up another 40% more room or so with our optimizations
* [15:35] Motor Loon: err... so less lag meant people was chatting much more ?
* [15:35] Kadah Coba: Chat lag is as bad now as it was, it just not (yet) failing as much
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: people have been chatting so much that is getting filled now
* [15:35] Kallista Destiny: and the Phoexix/firestone group is huge
* [15:35] Motor Loon: god... I'll leave that damn group if it helps on chatlag °͜°
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: it's not as tied to group size as it is tied to how much chatting is going on in your util node for all groups in that util node
* [15:35] Kallista Destiny: an very laggy
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: leaving that group won't help
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: the lag is on the util node itself
* [15:36] Melvin Starbrook: did LL ever look at the irc protocol? theres almost no lag on irc anymore :)
* [15:36] Leonel Iceghost: how are irc servers different from sl system?
* [15:36] Motor Loon: helps on the spam I get in my window °͜°
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: that is so not true Melvin :-)
* [15:36] Kallista Destiny: no other groups are fine
* [15:36] Melvin Starbrook: hihi got same thoughe Leone :))
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: but we have done and continue to do investigations
* [15:36] Melvin Starbrook: no?
* [15:36] Draconis NeurocamDraconis Neurocam dccps
* [15:36] Melvin Starbrook: i use irc when i do a show...
* [15:36] Holger Gilruth: irc is cool and has no lag at all
* [15:36] Melvin Starbrook: because we cant use normal chatt during a show..
* [15:37] Motor Loon: So... whatever you did to help with chatlag last... can you do it again- just double as much ? °͜°
* [15:37] Melvin Starbrook: using irc we can talk to each other with no lag...
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: I'm not sure what irc servers get the load of 80,000 concurrent group chatters
* [15:37] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny snickers "Clearly he's never been in a large chat."
* [15:37] Holger Gilruth: they have millions normaly on same time because of shared servers :)
* [15:37] Melvin Starbrook: dont know how many people are on undernet.org...
* [15:37] Melvin Starbrook: but i think many :))
* [15:37] Holger Gilruth: yes right melvin
* [15:37] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, I really don't think SL's group chat load model is directly comparable to typical IRC networks
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: I will say for sure that our chat system is not as efficient as IRC, but I don't know that IRC is the answer
* [15:38] Motor Loon: is the problem that for each message it tried to send to people online even if they dont have the window open?
* [15:38] Leonel Iceghost: ...
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: it's not really in the scope of my job to make those calls anyway
* [15:38] Coyot Linden: Mouthwash is the Scope of my job
* [15:38] Kallista Destiny: What paulinene says, and not even close
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: call mercille at home on a Friday night to work out your suggestions ;-)
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: X-D
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: KIDDING!
* [15:39] Draconis Neurocam: sl has a lot of things irc does not have to worry about
* [15:39] Pauline Darkfury: lol
* [15:39] Holger Gilruth: can we tell them, you have told us?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: any questions or other agenda items you guys want to talk about?
* [15:39] Leonel Iceghost: also sometimes all people chatting in a group/conference are in the same sim.. can't you improve that for games where teams need to coordinate?
* [15:39] Draconis Neurocam: are you going to ever change the aditi sign in message to something other than display names?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: yes
* [15:40] Liisa Runo: ^^
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: but it is still technically true
* [15:40] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny chuckles
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: what do you want it to say? :-)
* [15:40] Kallista Destiny: All hope abandon....
* [15:40] Coyot Linden: Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here
* [15:40] Holger Gilruth: Lets say, Meshes are coming in few days true :)
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Any idea of an ETA for a mesh release where a small change to a single mesh object could trigger a mass autoreturn?
* [15:40] Coyot Linden: jinx!
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: Leonel, local group chatting was improved
* [15:40] Kallista Destiny: had an asymptote jinx the other day
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: what do you mean Pauline?
* [15:41] Kadah Coba: "Aditi, where all your dreams are a shark."
* [15:41] Holger Gilruth: or let it write "Give Oscar a huge kiss or you will never be back again " :)
* [15:41] Pauline Darkfury: For the record, I'm not anti-mesh at all, just the potential for a big problem from the sudden PE bloat has me rather scared
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: that issue is being worked on by the Mesh team
* [15:41] Liisa Runo: i want the login page to say: "64Km prims enabled, 10Mb script mem enabled"
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: getting it to RC has been a huge step. this is something that we will gauge the impact of now
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: and over the weekend
* [15:42] Melvin Starbrook: wow 10 mb scrips...
* [15:42] Pauline Darkfury: Well, if someone resizes, adds a script, or sets a mesh physical, it can suddenly put a landowner massively over their sim-wide prim count, and it's not guaranteed to be the mesh object that suffers, or even the same prim owner
* [15:42] Homeless: how about "Physical material liquid enabled"?
* [15:42] Motor Loon: we cant get extra memory right, only less in a mono script ?
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: I understand the issue Pauline
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: Warning, the Varmits on this grid are not tame. Visitors are advised caution as remains will not be returned to next of Kin.
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: so true Kallista
* [15:42] Sigma Avro: same discusions with megaprims ...
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: we never return remains. we just re-copy from agni
* [15:43] Holger Gilruth: "Feel the Spirit of the new Second Life here" message suggestion
* [15:43] Coyot Linden: "Madness Takes its Toll. Please have exact change."
* [15:43] WolfPup Lowenhar: 64m prims are good though les megas around
* [15:44] Holger Gilruth: or how about "Change your password at Agni to get Inventory Refresh on Agniti"
* [15:44] Pauline Darkfury: Megaprims are just normal prims with abnormal size params, Wolfpup. There's no difference between a 64x64x64 created ages ago, and one created today
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: the password update script hasn't been working lately
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: I'm not sure why
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: we're looking into it
* [15:45] Lucia Nightfire: would be great if we could at least mod down existing megaprims, heh
* [15:45] Homeless: What I don't like about my mega-prims is someone else is listed as creator
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it reports that it is running
* [15:45] Holger Gilruth: ah ok
* [15:45] Pauline Darkfury: Yes, being able to be more accurate on creator info is a nice thing
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: that's true Homeless
* [15:45] Holger Gilruth: it is on holiday the script, its a espected behavior
* [15:45] Melvin Starbrook: mm i changed pw recently...
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it'll be nice to make our own
* [15:45] Melvin Starbrook: and it has updated here too
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: nothing against Zwagoth Klaar though
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: ^_^
* [15:45] Melvin Starbrook: i think the pw update script is working :))
* [15:45] Motor Loon: "Fix to make shift copying copy all prim properties." <--- god I love that one, thats been real annoying
* [15:45] Homeless: exactly what I plant to do and clear the old ones from my inv.
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: yeah
* [15:46] Pauline Darkfury: And, being able to actually use the right size of prim, instead of one that's a bit too big or a bit too small will be lovely
* [15:46] Liisa RunoLiisa Runo holds breath: soon LL will see that the new 64m prims dont create any new problems, and they can give us bigger sizes
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: more afraid about mega flexies
* [15:46] Kallista Destiny: lols
* [15:46] Holger Gilruth: lol
* [15:46] Pauline Darkfury: flexi is done client side
* [15:46] Draconis Neurocam: i cant wait to use my prim fu to make roundy buildings that i never had the right sized prims for
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: just don't use crazy prims for roads... good grief I have seen some crazy twisted mega prim shapes used for roads
* [15:46] Pauline Darkfury: You can set the 65535x65535x0.01 flexi, and it won't hurt the server
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: flexi meshes Pauline
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it is a HUGE load on the physics engine
* [15:46] Sigma Avro: *scumpties
* [15:47] Holger Gilruth: how do i explain that a 64x box can not hold more scripts and have nothing to do with the empty space inside :)#
* [15:47] Motor Loon: why is that Oskar? a huge load...
* [15:47] Melvin Starbrook: thats a huge prim lol
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: you're actually better off making 10 smaller sized flat prims that huge distorted megaprims where physics are concerned
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: the physics engine has too many face to detect collisions on
* [15:47] Draconis Neurocam: the amount of collisions that occur on it at once
* [15:47] Motor Loon: but a 20x20x1 would be ok right?
* [15:47] Sigma Avro: yes
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: like taking a huge torus or something and sectioning it to make a curved road surface
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: makes havok cry
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: and then cars act poor on it
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: and people say we suck
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:48] Pauline Darkfury: So, you'd be upset at a full sim racetrack consisting mostly of lots of 64x64 twisted torii? ;)
* [15:48] Motor Loon: ah... torus... lol... that was never a good idea nomatter the size
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: not me, but Falcon cries himself to sleep at night because of that
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: as does sim performance
* [15:48] Holger Gilruth: i wait for the first 64m cocks in marketplace
* [15:48] Melvin Starbrook: lol
* [15:48] Kallista Destiny: lols
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: I am sure they exist already
* [15:48] Kallista Destiny: flexi even
* [15:48] Flip Idlemind: Who would make Roosters that big?
* [15:48] Holger Gilruth: lol yes much flexy
* [15:49] Draconis Neurocam: tubes are far better than torii, theres prim familes, boxes=tubes, cylinders=torii, prisms=rings
* [15:49] Mercille Linden: gonna run - have to check out a crash
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: the Sriracha SL Marketing company
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: thanks Mercille!!
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: oh she's gone
* [15:49] Kallista Destiny: yeah.
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: thanks holger!
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: you start talking about genitalia and the new linden runs away
* [15:50] Pauline Darkfury: lol
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: alright. 10 minutes left
* [15:50] Holger Gilruth: sorry oskar, but since also little boys can say they are 1`+ with just one click that can happen.
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: whatever free time we have gets fille dwith puns from Coyot
* [15:50] Holger Gilruth: 18+
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: so NO FREE TIME
* [15:50] Lucia Nightfire: did castray get unlocked yet anywhere on agni?
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: not yet
* [15:51] Draconis Neurocam: i dont see why llSetVelocity is necessary, anyone explain that to me, by all means i want it, never can go wrong with more script functions, but still
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: once mesh ships and is stable we can think about a castray release
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: it'll happen
* [15:51] Motor Loon: will SVC-5880 ever be fixed?
* [15:51] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5880] Vehicles "Jumping" when crossing prims https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5880
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: we kinda fixed it
* [15:51] Kallista Destiny: I thought that was fixed?
* [15:51] Motor Loon: not really
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: actually we did fix it
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: then it made horses die
* [15:51] Liisa Runo: (new lindens should make secret ALT and hangout in LL owned sandboxes for couple days to harden up. The fastest path to zen)
* [15:52] Kadah Coba: How about being able to cross a region and not end up inside the road? :P
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: messing with the physics engine is a sure way to kill animals
* [15:52] Motor Loon: My motorcycles still jump over seams, though not as much as once mabye... but its still annoying
* [15:52] Kallista Destiny: Or under it?
* [15:52] Melvin Starbrook: wondering if new lindens also do have linden bears :)
* [15:52] Melvin Starbrook: hihi
* [15:52] Pauline Darkfury: Add Ahern on Agni to that , Liisa
* [15:52] Coyot Linden: some do
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: the real solution is building vehicles that don't use their visual prims for physics
* [15:52] Melvin Starbrook: :))
* [15:53] Motor Loon: would two mesh wheels make things alot better?
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: don't make the wheels physical
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: the wheels are just visual
* [15:53] Kallista Destiny: havr an invisable block that you slide on
* [15:53] Kadah Coba: This isnt garrys mod, you're wheels cant make it go :P
* [15:53] Motor Loon: block... that dont sound good
* [15:54] Draconis Neurocam: i would think a sphere would be best
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: phsyics can't be expected to perform in SL the way they perform in RL
* [15:54] Pauline Darkfury: I think what Oskar is saying is to use a single box prim that's physical, and the rest set no-physics
* [15:54] Kadah Coba: s/you're/your
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: the block is invisible
* [15:54] Liisa Runo: block with round corners in front and back
* [15:54] Kadah CobaKadah Coba cant type today
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: make the bike look like whatever you want
* [15:54] Motor Loon: how is a block at handling non-flat surfaces
* [15:54] Motor Loon: seems you'd get stuck alot
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: but for optimum performance DO NOT rely on the vehicle wheel shape for physics performance
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: you need to fake it
* [15:54] Draconis Neurocam: fake it till you make it
* [15:54] Kadah Coba: fake out
* [15:54] Motor Loon: lol..
* [15:54] Kadah Coba: fake in
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: experiment Motor
* [15:55] Coyot Linden: do you have a lot of experience in faking it?
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: start with your vehicle scripts in simple prim shapes
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: find one shape that works
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: then build a visual vehicle around that
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: but only keep those prims physical
* [15:55] Motor Loon: I'll give it a shot.. 1 prim "wasted" it alot for me though
* [15:55] Draconis Neurocam: i love lsl, but the way vehicle params are, it feels like voodoo
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: the vehicles really only have to "look like" they are riding smoothly
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: it's all an illusion anyway
* [15:56] Motor Loon: but we're talking when mesh is here right...
* [15:56] Motor Loon: not currently
* [15:56] Kallista Destiny: Lots of lsl is voodoo much handwaving and smoke and mirrors
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: mesh will make things easier
* [15:56] Draconis Neurocam: even without mesh, you are best off faking it
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:56] Kadah Coba: But a car with a PE of over 9000 doesnt sound fun :o
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: I like the vehicles that are avatar attachments
* [15:57] Draconis Neurocam: what 9000
* [15:57] Lucia Nightfire: heh
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: then don't build it that way Kadah
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: be efficient
* [15:57] Motor Loon: usually in an object you cant have one prim physical and the rest phantom (unless using hacks to make each "phantom" prim)
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: building for efficiency helps everyone
* [15:57] Kadah Coba: But what if I wanted to see the road returned? :P
* [15:57] Pauline Darkfury: Motor, not any more, with the new mesh stuff
* [15:57] Kadah CobaKadah Coba never uses cars, why when you can fly
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: cars are fun
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:58] Pauline Darkfury: You can have a totally different physics model to visual, even for prim objects, I believe
* [15:58] Draconis Neurocam: if only all other prims were seated nicely within reality like mesh, sl would look better, and we wouldnt have legacy content that is terribly made to worry about
* [15:58] Liisa Runo: flying is fun, but with a car you can jump ramps and stuff, that is fun too
* [15:58] Motor Loon: yes I know
* [15:58] Pauline Darkfury: So, 1, maybe 2 easy physics prims (box/sphere), and lots of no-physics visual prims
* [15:58] Leonel Iceghost: we need improved cars for new residents, cars are fun when you don't play real games
* [15:58] Melvin's Windup key: Melvin Starbrook's windup key has run out.
* [15:58] Homeless: sim crossings are always fun.... you never know where you'll end up
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: T-1 oskar
* [15:59] Motor Loon: and it will allow physical vehicles to be more than 32 prims... which sucks because builder will become lazy now °͜°
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: good conversation guys
* [15:59] Kadah Coba: T-1?
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: I should set up a physics talk with Falcon
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: get him to lay out how best to do vehicles
* [15:59] Pauline Darkfury: Thanks, Oskar
* [15:59] Motor Loon: That'd be cool
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: Time minus 1 minute Kadah
* [15:59] Kadah Coba: Ah.
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: but work from the model of "faking it"
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:59] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived! (Or, returned?)
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: oh. now kelly is here
* [16:00] Motor LoonMotor Loon winks at Kelly
* [16:00] Homeless: there should be a simulation of liquid in the physics engine
* [16:00] Coyot Linden: Just in time, Kelly!
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: kelly.jit
* [16:00] Jacky Scharf: hehe
* [16:00] Jacky Scharf: Hello Kelly ㋡
* [16:00] Sigma Avro: Kelly came for minutes
* [16:00] Leonel Iceghost: now we have an hour with kelly?
* [16:00] Draconis Neurocam: "Faking vehicles since 2003" login message
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: hah
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: thanks everyone for the meeting
* [16:00] Homeless: so we can melt things
* [16:00] Kadah Coba: The simulation of liquids in 3d is very expensive.
* [16:00] Kallista Destiny shouts: Perfect timing Kelly
* [16:00] Homeless: so we can melt things
* [16:00] Sigma Avro: Thanks Oskar and Coyote
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: no melting prims Homeless!!
* [16:00] Homeless: ooops lag
* [16:00] Homeless: typed it twice
* [16:01] Homeless: lol
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: yw
* [16:01] Jacky Scharf: Thank ya very much Oskar. ㋡
* [16:01] Kadah Coba: I melted a ruby on rails cluster once
* [16:01] Jacky Scharf: TC everybody. ;-)
* [16:01] Lares Carter: thanks for the meeting, Lindens
* [16:01] Coyot Linden: yw