Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-11-04

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on November 4th, 2010
= Agenda =
== Updates ==
* Busy week
** Production rolled out with isentropic
** Production rolled isentropic back...
** MAGNUM got AIS
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/Magnum
** BlueSteel got updated
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/BlueSteel
** LeTigre got updated
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/LeTigre
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for November 4h, 2010:
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: hello hello
* [15:01] TankMaster FinesmithTankMaster: Finesmith waves
* [15:02] TankMaster Finesmith: how are you today?
* [15:02] Bronson Blackadder: small crowd today
* [15:02] TankMaster Finesmith: fried yet? :P
* [15:03] TankMaster Finesmith: howdy maestro
* [15:03] Maestro Linden: hey there
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: welcome everybody
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I hope your week has been better than ours
* [15:04] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so anyways
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: sorry that I have not updated the transcripts in a while
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: they are updated now
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours/Minutes/2010-10-28
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours/Minutes/2010-10-21
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: agenda is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:06] TankMaster Finesmith: :)
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: this week certainly could have gone smooter
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: let's start at the beginning
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: good ol' Isentropic
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: that bundle of code has been a lot of fun for a few weeks now
* [15:06] Bronson Blackadder: Isengard is located in the Isentropics
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we thought we had ironed out all issues and could live with the rest
* [15:07] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it was a real difficult process getting the code out on Tuesday
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: the grid didn't want it
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we eventually got it all out there and immediately noticed a huge impact to our util hosts
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: something along the lines of there being a bunch of 404's and the 404's weren't cached
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: that load was enough to put a strain on the util hosts very close to the breaking point
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so...
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we tried a handful of tricks
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: but nothing worked
* [15:08] Maestro Linden: Tonya sure is popular
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: maestro and I put in like 14 hours that day
* [15:09] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther blinks.
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Tonya?
* [15:09] TankMaster Finesmith: o0
* [15:09] Tonya Souther: yes?
* [15:09] Maestro Linden: hehe
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: I must have missed something
* [15:09] Maestro Linden: just a lot of selection particles. you can proceed, oskar
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: i see :-D
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: funny
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: anyways
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: out tricks didn't lower the load so we had to rollback
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: were we to head into the busy weekend with that code there was a real risk that it would just topple everything
* [15:11] Gooden Uggla: it was in the server roll? holy crap!
* [15:11] Flynn Tigerpaw: scary
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so we rolled everything back wednesday then rolled out the RC channels
* [15:11] Gooden Uggla: that's the universe's way of telling you not to include bugs intentionally
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: each got some updated bits
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we never intentioanlly include the bugs
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: but sometimes we have to intentionally ship known bugs
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: slight difference :-)
* [15:12] TankMaster Finesmith: nary slight... :P
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: it got spanked all the same :)
* [15:13] Gooden Uggla: get some sleep tonight
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I got some sleep last night
* [15:13] Gooden Uggla: exxcellent
* [15:13] TankMaster Finesmith: 1/2 hr?
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel got updated with a fix for SVC-6399
* [15:14] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-6399: 
* [#SVC-6399] Logging into: regions running Second Life RC LeTigre 10.10.05.211474/212725 results in online friends not showing online 
* [15:14] TankMaster Finesmith: yay
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: so the news, while temporarily bad, is neutral?
* [15:14] SHAMUS Carter: cool glad to see a fix for that
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: very cool, thanks
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: yeah I think it got into the other channels too
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: so we should be good to go whichever channel gets promoted next week
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: LeTigre has a new project
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: the Threaded Rez one
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: object rezzing is in its own thread now
* [15:15] Gooden Uggla: falcon flew in!
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: make sure you check that out
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: hey Falcon
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: wow
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: wassup man?
* [15:16] Gooden Uggla: i'
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: Hey Oskar, folks. I was wondering if I could make a request of your friendly beta participants
* [15:16] Maestro Linden: well, not quite yet. threaded object rezzing is disabled right now. but we plan to flip the switch in a few days
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: uh oh
* [15:16] TankMaster Finesmith: so no more freezing when rezzing 1024 objects?
* [15:16] SHAMUS Carter: wonder if anyone is working on VWR-9326
* [15:16] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9326: 
* [#VWR-9326] Incorrect chevron: directions on minimap when agents are above 768m 
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: right now?
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: not an excuse for rezzing 1024 objects
* [15:16] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:16] Falcon Linden: Oskar: I'm not in a hurry, feel free to slot me in when you have time :)
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: VWR-9326 is pretty low on the backlogs
* [15:16] Maestro Linden: yes, at least it is disabled on Letigre right now. I think it's disabled on Aditi too..
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:16] TankMaster Finesmith: gotta test these things, right ? :P
* [15:16] Gooden Uggla: shamus, that's for avs over 750 meters, right?
* [15:16] Falcon LindenFalcon: Linden sits quietly
* [15:17] SHAMUS Carter: yes
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: oh right, my bad.
* [15:17] SHAMUS Carter: or stands next to you wne your both above 10245
* [15:17] Gooden Uggla: pretty old bug, still annoying tho
* [15:17] Maestro Linden: and LeTigre has another change that'll make high-prim object rezzing and region-crossing a bit faster
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: so many projects gets me confused on all the statuses :-(
* [15:17] Gooden Uggla: like the notices to email one :)
* [15:17] RedMokum Bravin: Testing display names on Agni was no fun... with the once a week limit enabled already.
* [15:17] SHAMUS Carter: makes the v2 av near me usless at high altitudes
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: my boss set his to ButtFungus Linden and then was stuck with it
* [15:17] Lares Carter: heya everyone :) stupid time changes, now i am late -.-
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: hi Lares
* [15:18] Gooden Uggla: lol awesome
* [15:18] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther giggles. "I thought display names weren't supposed to bea ble to set to Linden."
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: oh... that's what it is. The UK is on the old time
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: well my boss is a linden
* [15:18] SHAMUS Carter: hehe
* [15:18] RedMokum Bravin: Oskar: someone informed me later that I could reset to my default before the end of the week.. :-p
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: what did you set it to Red?
* [15:19] SHAMUS CarterSHAMUS: Carter has not evne played with name tags
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I'll talk about MAGNUM next. MAGNUM has AIS enabled
* [15:19] RedMokum Bravin: I set it to Golden Rod first :-)
* [15:19] Lares Carter: could someone please pass me a not with chatlog until now?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: and that's pretty cool
* [15:19] Lares Carter: note*
* [15:19] RedMokum Bravin: But then friends started asking if I was the stranger on their friends list on the web.
* [15:19] TankMaster Finesmith: what viewer do we need to be on to take advantage of AIS?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: so for those of you who have inventories larger than 100k you should be pleased
* [15:20] Tonya Souther: {on,based on}
* [15:20] Maestro Linden: any viewer that supports inventory, really, Tankmaster
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: yeah it was all server side
* [15:20] Tonya Souther: This doesn't need HTTP inventory fetch?
* [15:20] TankMaster Finesmith: ok
* [15:20] Maestro Linden: nope
* [15:21] Tonya Souther: yay.
* [15:21] SHAMUS Carter: the old udp invintory is fainaly geting replaced?
* [15:21] Gooden Uggla: this is aditi or agni?
* [15:21] Lares Carter: we are on aditi
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: AIS was on the grid mid 2009-ish if I remember correctly, but was pulled? Or am I confusing it with something else?
* [15:21] Gooden Uggla: the AIS testing
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: as we head into the holiday season things around here are going to be tight
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we're probably going to get 1 more vwr build before Thanksgiving
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: not sure if any are planned for December
* [15:22] TankMaster Finesmith: 2.4?
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: Latif: you may be right. I think we did a trial run of AIS for a bit, a while back. It has a long history..
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: we have a fairly large NCW (No Change Window) for December
* [15:22] Entering god: mode, level 200
* [15:22] Entering god: mode, level 200
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: I myself will be taking the last half of December off
* [15:22] RedMokum Bravin: Someone please fix the crash bug connected to setting a custom connection port in 2.3
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: \o/
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: so don't expect a lot to get done after another few weeks or so
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:23] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, nice, no reverted roll outs to worry about :)
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:23] Flynn Tigerpaw: no grid meltdowns
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: a Silent Night hopefully
* [15:24] RedMokum Bravin: How about 1 server version for the whole grid then?
* [15:24] Latif Khalifa: Who will keep an eye on Falcon in the meanwhile? :P
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: red brings up a good point
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: right before I hand things off to Falcon... who here thinks Falcon needs a makeover?
* [15:24] Falcon LindenFalcon: Linden does but doesn't really care
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: oh you do not like the version hopping ? :-)
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: +1
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: will you toll the grid to production for the holidays?
* [15:24] JS Streamwechsler-HUD: whispers: Paskis' Radio TV - Initialised
* [15:24] JS Streamwechsler-HUD: whispers: Warning, it appears that the land here is owned by someone else, or group owned. You will need to use the subwoofer, deeded to a group, to use the Radio TV on group land.
* [15:24] JS Streamwechsler-HUD: whispers: Paskis' Radio TV - Ready!
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I think we should have a Falcon Linden Makeover contest
* [15:25] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: we will probably put the whole grid on the same server code
* [15:25] Tonya Souther: and then hang a DFW tag on it?
* [15:25] Latif Khalifa: no lol. that means he will declare some hobby project is taking his time and leave then ;)
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: whoever wins the Falcon Linden makeover contest gets dinner with Falcon in SF
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: at his expense no less
* [15:25] Gooden Uggla: yup, an old n00b av doesn't quite cut it... i vote neko just to piss off the people who know it means "cat"
* [15:25] Falcon Linden: hahaha
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: I vote neko
* [15:26] SHAMUS Carter: I vote furry
* [15:26] Tonya Souther: Give me airfare and I'll take it.
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: How about: whoever wins the Falcon Linden makeover contest gets to be free from my abuse for at least 24 hours? :)
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: lies
* [15:26] Latif Khalifa: deal!
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: Except you, Latif :)
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: you get special abuse.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: alright falcon. what do you have for us?
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: hmm, that sounds wrong...
* [15:26] Falcon Linden: anyway
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: you call that abuse? quick, give him griefing lessons!
* [15:27] Falcon Linden: I want to ask you guys to read over and build test objects to test out the various aspects and perhaps even add a test plan or 20 to the page :)
* [15:27] Ellla McMahon: Oskar, can I request that Region Pooley be taken out of the RC lists please ? There needs to be Linden land, with very little building that non-technical Residents can go to when they have problems.
* [15:28] Thomas Shikami: I usually use Paroo for that
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: I'm setting up some PROD sandboxes Ella
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: What, no excitement? Vektor said you guys would love to do it! :)
* [15:29] Tonya Souther: Falcon, is that intended to get rid of tranquilizer darts that can't travel over 100 MPH lest they go through walls and such?
* [15:29] SHAMUS Carter: sweet llcastray is not dieign yet
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Tonya: among other things
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Shamus: eh?
* [15:29] Gooden Uggla: they're too busy cheering, just a sec
* [15:29] Tonya Souther: I know someone who'd love to do that...
* [15:29] Rex Cronon: can u add one more argument to the llcastray. like integer maxReturnSize?
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: hehe
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Rex: already there
* [15:29] Ellla McMahon: thank you :) .. with easy names please, so they can be remembered for the login screen
* [15:29] Flynn Tigerpaw: was reading wiki... I'll be trying it!
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: read the wiki carefully :)
* [15:29] SHAMUS Carter: was afraid it would be backburnnered
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: llCastRay() is not dead. You have a chance to help out with it.
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: RC_MAX_RESULTS, I think
* [15:29] Rex Cronon: ok
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: llCastRay is in fact nearly finished. All that remains is testing.
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: falcon, what happens these days if your ray's start or end point is outside the sim bounds? is there a script error?
* [15:30] Tonya Souther: Aditi only for now?
* [15:30] Flynn Tigerpaw: it's only available in mesh regions, right?
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: only Mesh regions
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: who better to test than the people who will use it the most
* [15:30] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther facepaws.
* [15:30] SHAMUS Carter: cool
* [15:30] Tonya Souther: And only Mesh clients too, I take it?
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: use and abuse, no doubt :)
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: tonya: it doesn't involve the client at all
* [15:30] SHAMUS Carter: castray is serverside
* [15:30] Tonya Souther: oh, good.
* [15:30] Falcon Linden: any client can use any scripting stuff
* [15:30] SHAMUS Carter: no client needed
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: we could basically scan a mesh:)
* [15:31] Tonya Souther: and it'll render on anything?
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: it doesn't render anything
* [15:31] Flynn Tigerpaw: were're advance from 6-shooters tophasers
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: it's for scripts only
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: if you want to display something, you'll have to rez markers or something
* [15:31] Tonya Souther: ahhhhh.
* [15:31] Latif Khalifa: it's a script function that lets you know what you would hit if you were moving along some vector
* [15:31] SHAMUS Carter: llcastray is basily like particl phsycs for sencors for schipts
* [15:31] SHAMUS Carter: ie lets you shoot stuff
* [15:32] Tonya Souther: How about adding a short "this is what the thing is, basically" to the page?
* [15:32] SHAMUS Carter: and detecht the hitts
* [15:32] Latif Khalifa: what you do with the information is up to you
* [15:32] Falcon Linden: it does a lot more than letting you shoot stuff
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: it's very simple. It tells you what things intersect a line from point A to point B
* [15:33] Gooden Uggla: waits for falcon to explain what else it does
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: you can use it for investigating what objects are around you, for making a more complex vehicle system (using raycasts to see how far below your chassis the ground is and then computing suspension behaviors)
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: or for...whatever. You're creative, you'll figure it out :)
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: is this API set in stone yet, Falcon?
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: pretty set in stone, yes
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: additions might come later, but this is how it will be initially unless there's a very good reason this won't work
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: there are some llcastray videos on youtube: 
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: the code is done, so I'm limited in justifying additional time on it
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: what's next on your plate falcon?
* [15:36] TankMaster Finesmith: peas
* [15:37] Gooden Uggla: making sure the mono fix works?
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: a phone call, actually
* [15:37] Falcon Linden: hold on :)
* [15:37] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: the question should be "what would falcon break next" ;)
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: Oh, I have someting that might interest some of you
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: there are some regions on aditi running a branch with simplified prim linkability rules
* [15:39] GOAT Firethorn: oh, I'm sorry for interruping XD
* [15:39] Tonya Souther: that 53-meter sphere is confusing the first time you run into it...
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: wow. I never take calls during the middle of my OH
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: the new rules are "if no 2 prims in the linkset have centers >54m apart, it's linkable"
* [15:39] Falcon Linden: yay for phone calls :)
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: how is you rmother?
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: nice and simple
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: She's great
* [15:40] Rex Cronon: wouldn't be easier to have a list of what servercode each sim is runing. at least here on beta?
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: it changes too fast Rex
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: nobody could quite figure out the rules before
* [15:40] Tonya Souther: Maestro, is that 54-meter number still valid even with 64-meter maximum prims?
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: ti changes several times a day..
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: in any case, what am I up to next?
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: Well, I'm still doing mesh-y things as we fix bugs and find new ones
* [15:40] Falcon Linden: working with our UI folks on that
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: Tonya, with the new rule, only the prim centers are considered
* [15:40] Kadah Coba: Sounds like that would be a lot faster, Maestro :D
* [15:40] SHAMUS Carter: linking rules are changing?
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: it's not looking at a bounding sphere of the overall shapes anymore
* [15:40] SHAMUS Carter: oh joy i hopy stuff don't break
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: trying to get some time from DPW to help make a museum of How to Build Things Right (TM)
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: yeah, that's the Idea, Kadah :)
* [15:41] GOAT Firethorn: Mesh is looking nice...I'e been building using kirstens S21...based on mesh code..its nice
* [15:41] Thomas Shikami: So we can link Megaprims again?
* [15:41] Kadah Coba: And would even allow for the viewer to predict linking failure and not even let you try :P
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: Shamus, the new rules were designed so that existing linksets wouldn't suddenly become unlinkable
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: And doing some low-level work with our engine team, maintainance kind of stuff to keep our code pretty and efficient :)
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: pretty? you write pretty code?
* [15:41] Latif Khalifa: what do you mean "keep"? ;)
* [15:41] Falcon Linden: And trying to convince the world that Client Side Prediction is the wave of the...well...about 15 years ago and we really should have it :)
* [15:42] Falcon LindenFalcon: Linden grins to Latif
* [15:42] Kadah Coba: Speed improvement on linkablity checks should really help llsetlinkprimpramsfast not suck on large link sets
* [15:42] SHAMUS Carter: so ture
* [15:42] Maestro Linden: yeah Kadah, it's about 10x faster than the current production version
* [15:42] Jacky Scharf: Thomas: I linked megaprims on AGNI ...
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: also, I encourage all of you to grab the mesh project viewer and play around with the new physics material properties
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: You can make awesome stuff
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: oooh
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: like vehicles that don't bounce like moon buggies
* [15:42] Latif Khalifa: Falcon just want to make viewer more havok dependent. Now i get it! He's been sent from Havok to infiltrate and destroy opensource SL! ;)
* [15:42] SHAMUS Carter: the physics prop[ertys are fun
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: and super bouncy balls
* [15:43] SHAMUS Carter: i love playign with gravity
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: if you visit oatmeal 13 and oatmeal 14 on aditi, they're running the server with the new linkability rules
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: falcon are you going to build some vehicles for us?
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: using best practices?
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: the version is andrew-inertia 10.11.02.213605
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: Oskar: I'm going to ask DPW to build some and then tell them what they did wrong and get them to build good ones :)
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: we wanna see what you can build
* [15:43] Kadah Coba: About time, Maestro, a lot of clothing makers were refusing not use to 1 or more scirpts per prim cause the setlinked functions are "too slow" :P
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: a box.
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: Also, two boxes linked together, but not aligned the way I really want
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: OH!
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: one other big thing
* [15:44] Gooden Uggla: falcon wants the moles to beat him up? kinky...
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: You folks know about the whole 10cm gap between two physical boxes?
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: Yeah, we want to encourage people to do more with less lag..
* [15:44] SHAMUS Carter: YEEEAAAAHH!!!
* [15:44] SHAMUS Carter: very anoying
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: Guess what?
* [15:44] Tonya Souther: what 10cm gap?
* [15:44] TankMaster Finesmith: it 10m now?
* [15:44] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: 100m!
* [15:44] TankMaster Finesmith: >.>
* [15:45] SHAMUS Carter: 0.o
* [15:45] Rex Cronon: what?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: besides elevators what else is going to break?
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: I've eliminated it in all cases EXCEPT for concave prims that are physical or moving.
* [15:45] Rex Cronon: so the gap is now, how big?
* [15:45] SHAMUS Carter: you mean no more 10cm gap?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: 0.0000m
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: +/` 0
* [15:45] SHAMUS Carter: epic
* [15:46] Thomas Shikami: except for hollow shapes?
* [15:46] TankMaster Finesmith: so that gap there will be gone?
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: thomas: hollow, twist, some kinds of cut I think... anything that's concave
* [15:46] Thomas Shikami: then it's 1dm again?
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: 1dm?
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: decimeter
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: yes
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: Thomas: yes
* [15:47] TankMaster Finesmith: >:)
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: well
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: no
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: it's 5cm for each object that has it
* [15:47] SHAMUS Carter: so tortured prims will still have the gap
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: so if it's just a torus with a box on top, it'll have a 5cm gap
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: (5cm from the torus, 0 from the box)
* [15:47] Thomas Shikami: and elevators would still face the same gap then
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: huh...never thought of that. I guess that solves the "problem"
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: though frankly, I want to delete every physical elevator in SL... :P
* [15:48] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:48] Thomas Shikami: SL isn'T made for elevators
* [15:48] SHAMUS Carter: oh but whyt
* [15:48] Maestro Linden: I think that would depend on how the elevator is built, Thomas.. though your'e probably right for most elevators in SL
* [15:48] Falcon LindenFalcon: Linden wants constraints and keyframed animations, not poorly designed, inefficient rube goldberg machines
* [15:48] TankMaster Finesmith: thats what double click to tp is for
* [15:48] Thomas Shikami: give us a method to have elevators like in half life
* [15:48] SHAMUS Carter: physical elevators sometimes work
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: sometimes.
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: and now they'll work just a little less. haha
* [15:48] GOAT Firethorn: but rube goldberg machines are fun D:
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: rube goldberg machines make game developers cry
* [15:48] TankMaster Finesmith: LOL
* [15:49] Thomas Shikami: something that elevates the avatars in a way to be still aligned to the elevator, like they are still
* [15:49] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther cranks up Powerhouse in the background.
* [15:49] Rex Cronon: your eyes must be be dry by now
* [15:49] GOAT Firethorn: LL's older code makes me cry.
* [15:49] GOAT Firethorn: XD
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: Thomas: what you want is a motorized prismatic constraint. It'll come sometime after we add object hierarchy :)
* [15:49] Thomas Shikami: cool
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: Rex: Honestly, I tune most things out :)
* [15:50] Rex Cronon: and r u really going to add object hierarchy?
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: probably not.
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: But it would be awesome, no?
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: haha
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: we are giving it serious thought
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: oh falcon
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: particularly andrew and I
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: teasing the residents like that
* [15:51] SHAMUS Carter: would love to see joints return
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: if we do, it'll be a very slow process
* [15:51] Rex Cronon: good luck:)
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: in other words, don't expect to see anything before 2012
* [15:51] Falcon Linden: that said, we might be slowly adding the functionality to support them over the year
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: so how would you make an elevator falcon?
* [15:52] TankMaster Finesmith: its not going to matter ofter 2012 anyway
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: Oskar: keyframed animation
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: via the physics engine
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: and an improved character controller to handle it
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: end of the world and all?
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: how would you build it with the current tools we have
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: I wouldn't.
* [15:52] Thomas Shikami: I would make avatars sit on the elevators and use non-physical movement
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: except SL supports none of that ;)
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: Okay, that's not true.
* [15:52] TankMaster Finesmith: yeah >.<
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: I'd make avs sit down
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: make the elevator nonphysical
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: give it plenty of space between the elevator and the shaft
* [15:53] SHAMUS Carter: warp pos ;-)
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: and use a script to set a velocity
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: there r already elevators that do that
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: you can give a velocity to a nonphysical object, right?
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: velocity for non physical prim?
* [15:53] Gooden Uggla: falcon "otis" linden
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: no?
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: u can fake it
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: Because I've been writing a whole bunch of code assuming that was possible.
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: man you need to try to build something in sl
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: I would just move the elevator in a few llSetPos calls and maybe have a "window" in the elevator door that animates a texture, to make it look like you're moving slowly =P
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: Latif: I'd rather not :P
* [15:54] SHAMUS Carter: jumppos
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: okay, so it sounds like we need to fix llSetVelocity to work on non-physical objects
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: ...that or I need to greatly simplify a bunch of other code I wrote
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: hahaha
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: well that makes you come with, erm "interesting" proposal to be kind on the word
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: isn't that why you love me?
* [15:54] Rex Cronon: if something is not-physical how can it have a velocity?
* [15:55] Thomas Shikami: how about llSetMoveTo(vector dest, float speed)
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: keyframed animation
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: a nonphysical object with a velocity will not collide with other nonphysical objects (it'll pass right through) but will hit and knock physical objects around
* [15:55] Tonya Souther: and how would you move the avatar on the platform?
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: sit
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: when you sit you become part of the platform
* [15:55] Tonya Souther: ah.
* [15:55] SHAMUS Carter: so basily like every other npv
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: is not fun to sit in elevators:(
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: so then you just give the platform a velocity (which apparently you can't do right now) and boom
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: do you sit in a real elevator falcon?
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: rex: yeah, well, then we need constraints
* [15:56] GOAT Firethorn: lol oskar
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: Oskar: When I'm drunk
* [15:56] GOAT Firethorn: XD
* [15:56] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther cues up Aerosmith.
* [15:56] Marigold Devin: You wouldn't have to look like you were sitting tho
* [15:56] Marigold Devin: So the look would be OK, and using a pose would stop that walking thing that always goes on in SL elevators
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: just script it so you click the elevator door and it animates you, seats you, and animates you to look like you're not sitting
* [15:56] Tonya Souther: SMOP.
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: that walking thing should also get fixed if/when we do client side prediction
* [15:57] TankMaster Finesmith: haxer
* [15:57] Thomas Shikami: how about llLockAvatar(key avatar) to constrain an avatar to a prim until they use movement controls?
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: but what if my elevator has windows and i want to shoot through them:)
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: Thomas: interesting idea. Submit a jira.
* [15:57] SHAMUS Carter: will the veloctity interpurter get smarter?
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: what if my elevator has cables and I want to cut them and let avatars die?
* [15:57] GOAT Firethorn: XD
* [15:57] TankMaster Finesmith: "if you cant get it to work, hack something to make it look like it working" :P
* [15:57] Thomas Shikami: I'd add a delay of 5 secs though
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: tankmaster: that's the game developer's mantra! :)
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: hacking things to look like they are working is what games development is all about
* [15:58] TankMaster Finesmith: hehe
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: it's just also about making the hacks EFFICIENT :)
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: do you think you really are driving a ferrari in gran turismo?
* [15:58] GOAT Firethorn: and hoping noone knows? lol
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: ok. now we r playing the "what if" game:)
* [15:58] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther pulls the Long-Eze out of her inventory.
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: hey, whaddya know, it's 4pm SLT!
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: Time for me to hassle andrew
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: Oh, and Oskar too
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: "what if... falco9n's office walls weren't padded?"
* [15:59] GOAT Firethorn: LOL
* [15:59] Marigold Devin: I'm sorry I was late - thanks Red for remidning us over there
* [15:59] Marigold Devin: Darn UK putting clocks back
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: Remember: llCastRay and physics materials!
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: go!
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: physics materials?
* [15:59] SHAMUS Carter: Yus !
* [15:59] SHAMUS Carter: play with the mesh client phsycas thingy
* [15:59] Gooden Uggla: test the zero bounding gap
* [15:59] Tonya Souther: What, a rubber ball will bounce differently form a metal ball from a glass ball?
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: rex: gravity, density, friction, restitution on a per linkset basis. Use the mesh project viewer and a mesh region
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: tonya: that's already true. But now you get much more control
* [16:00] TankMaster Finesmith: will a glass ball break if i drop it?
* [16:00] GOAT Firethorn: that'd be awesome.
* [16:00] TankMaster Finesmith: hehe
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: Only on my Havok 14 sim
* [16:00] Lares Carter: falcon, the 0 cm gap thing is already on some regions in aditi?
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: Lares: mesh regions
* [16:00] TankMaster Finesmith: so in about 30 years?
* [16:00] SHAMUS Carter: destructable prims regratabkly just do not exist
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: TankMaster: yep
* [16:01] TankMaster Finesmith: >.<
* [16:01] GOAT Firethorn: reminds me of the PhysX demos
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: kind of weird if only the mesh viewer can show friction, density effects
* [16:01] GOAT Firethorn: where everything is destructable
* [16:01] GOAT Firethorn: XD
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: rex: no, the effects are sim side
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: but you need the mesh viewer to set them
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: it's in the build panel
* [16:01] SHAMUS Carter: are they script setable
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: that's on the grid called "second entropy"
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: shamus: not yet. I want to know what people will do with them first. Make a jira about them being script settable.
* [16:02] Rex Cronon: we can't use lsl to set them:(
* [16:02] Falcon Linden: Actually, the code does exist, I just haven't enabled it for that and won't until I know what crazy things people are going to do with it :)
* [16:02] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther hands Falcon a lead Zeppelin.
* [16:02] Latif Khalifa: think crazy, multiply by ten, and you'll get it about right
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: well it is 4 o'clock and that means cake time in the Seattle office
* [16:02] SHAMUS Carter: oh nothign to crazy honist ;-)
* [16:02] Rex Cronon: i guess i will have finally install the mesh viewer. what is the latest version?
* [16:03] Gooden Uggla: mmm... cake...
* [16:03] Rex Cronon: have to*
* [16:03] SHAMUS Carter: has there even been an update to it
* [16:03] Latif Khalifa: Rex, has links to the latest beta and nightly snapshots
* [16:03] TankMaster Finesmith: 1< version >10
* [16:04] Rex Cronon: thanks:)
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming everyone
* [16:04] SHAMUS Carter: Thank you
* [16:04] Falcon Linden: indeed, danke schoen!
* [16:04] GOAT Firethorn: where's the mesh repo o.O
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: indeed!
* [16:04] Lares Carter: SLT will stay as it is or change by 1 hour too?
* [16:04] Latif Khalifa: thank you for your time :)
* [16:04] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: US changes this weekend
* [16:04] Rex Cronon: and have fun:)
* [16:04] Lares Carter: thanks for your time!
* [16:04] Falcon Linden: Latif: Thanks for not ranting too much about FOSS :)
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: it'll move with US Pacific time, Lares
* [16:04] Tonya SoutherTonya: Souther poofs, orphaning several selction beams.
* [16:04] TankMaster Finesmith: itll change with PT change
* [16:04] Lares Carter: okay, thanks.
* [16:04] Marigold Devin: Changes this weekend. I make a note.
* [16:04] Marigold Devin: Thanks everyone, especially Red !
* [16:04] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, I hope you keep in mind not to destroy it too much ;)
* [16:05] Falcon Linden: Latif: I'll try to keep it to only the worst offenders
* [16:05] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend everybody
* [16:05] Latif Khalifa: you too Oskar :)
* [16:05] Marigold Devin: Same to you Oskar, and everyone