Doc Team/2010-11-03

== Transcript ==
[13:00]	:	Hello, Jeremy, nice to see you. Hello, Simon, nice to meet you.
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:00]	:	Hi everyone!
[13:00]	:	hi Eliza!! and you! :D
[13:00]	:	hi Jeremy! Long time no see :D
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:01]	:	Take a seat, Simon.
[13:01]	:	Hello, KittyCat Diesel.
[13:01]	:	Hello Jeremy, hello Simon
[13:01]	 	has pinged you.
[13:01]	:	Nice to meet you.
[13:01]	:	â—•â€¿â—•
[13:01]	:	hai nice to meet you too
[13:01]	:	Wow, lots of people this week.
[13:01]	:	I think doc office hours win the award for most comfy seats at an office hour
[13:01]	:	Hello, Aargle Zymurgy. Welcome.
[13:01]	:	Yes, I have noticed. That is unusual.
[13:01]	:	Argle bargle morble whoosh!
[13:01]	:	hey, Jeremy!
[13:01]	 	has pinged you.
[13:02]	:	Hi Aargle.
[13:02]	:	any hot topics today?
[13:02]	:	Hi, Arawn Spitteler. Nice to meet you.
[13:02]	:	Hi, Eliza
[13:03]	:	Maybe! I've been working on a project to condense the knowledge base into something more manageable. It'll still need a lot of work and revision, but here's where it's living: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Knowledge_Base_2
[13:03]	:	oh, something came up last night... this is probably more for Torley, though
[13:03]	:	What is it?
[13:04]	:	I was helping a noob and she was struggling with the basics of getting dressed.
[13:04]	:	Hello, Echo Seigo, welcome.
[13:04]	:	I tried to find a good video on that, but the closest was something still aimed at the old client
[13:04]	:	and it was geared more toward attachments than clothing
[13:05]	:	Yeah, we're pretty behind on updating for Viewer 2. Hopefully I'll have some cycles to work on that soon, or maybe some helpful Residents will contribute to the wiki :-)
[13:05]	:	I've got a noob help area, but it they need ot know how to wear things.
[13:05]	:	Hello, Calamity Hathaway. Nice to meet you.
[13:06]	:	tx nice to meet you too
[13:06]	:	Thank you.
[13:06]	:	Mmm cupcakes
[13:06]	:	Hello, Cummere Mayo. :-)
[13:06]	:	and speaking of wearing things, Cummere, I'm still trying to figure out that outfit of yours. :-)
[13:06]	:	I bashed together a quick guide on this subject at the beginning of the KB2 project. It's very brief, but I think it describes what you're trying to do: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2/Editing_your_appearance
[13:07]	:	it looks better with the piece that refuses to rez today
[13:07]	:	i think its called Kitty's Idea of HEaven outfit
[13:07]	:	nom
[13:07]	:	http://www.geekstir.com/om-nom-nom
[13:07]	:	That is a lot of cupcakes.
[13:08]	:	/me wants to pink one.... oh theres a few ... shame
[13:09]	:	of course, if I DO make my own video, I'll probably have links to my own sim.
[13:09]	:	/me is confused.
[13:09]	:	I have to admit I do a lot of self-promotion
[13:09]	:	Oh! For the wearing stuff thing.
[13:10]	:	LOL...
[13:10]	:	/me passes coffee to Jeremy
[13:10]	 	has pinged you.
[13:10]	:	Well, there was cupcakes, and then a lolcat video...
[13:10]	:	okay
[13:10]	 	has pinged you.
[13:10]	:	darn torley isnt shwoing up today?
[13:10]	:	i had a bone to pick with him
[13:10]	:	god... not bones again!
[13:11]	:	I can ask him... But I don't know if he wants his bones picked.
[13:11]	:	not those kind lol
[13:11]	:	I'm still squickish about the whole notion of eye-bones
[13:11]	:	I had to cope with those when doing animations before I came to SL
[13:11]	:	I jsut wnat to knwo why he had to go and and make a how to for greifers and fruad artists video
[13:11]	:	Which is this?
[13:11]	:	yeah... which vid is that?
[13:12]	:	the one on the dsiplay names wiki page that tells how to take someone else's user or display naem and make it your display name
[13:12]	:	/me pins on his official associate g-team member badge
[13:12]	:	oh! that one.
[13:13]	:	I hadn't seen that one yet...
[13:13]	:	/me watches
[13:14]	:	I'm not sure I want to blame Torley... more like blame M.... but he's gone. we can only burn him in effigy for that.
[13:14]	:	M's come disguised as Cummere, and wants Torley to get the blame
[13:15]	:	/me chuckles
[13:15]	:	truly mystic as always, Arawn. :-)
[13:15]	:	Oh, I watched the wrong video...
[13:15]	:	lol
[13:15]	:	if you watch the second one and the first one
[13:15]	:	/me waits for "Copying another Residents display name to your clipboard"
[13:15]	:	Where do we find the vid?
[13:15]	:	om nom nom?
[13:15]	:	â˜†*Â¨Â¨*:â€¢ Giggle â€¢:*Â¨Â¨*â˜†
[13:15]	:	sorry thrid one and first one
[13:16]	:	display names aren't designed to be unique anyways
[13:16]	:	you can immediately copy complex names and then go to town greiging others
[13:16]	:	well, Lamorna and I are spearheading the backlash against the non-unique display names.
[13:16]	:	However, I should point out that it's the display name that's being copied, not the account (like all of ours right now) name.
[13:16]	:	LL didn't invent copu-and-paste.
[13:16]	:	err copy
[13:17]	:	no but no need to go out of the way to make impersonating easier
[13:17]	:	I need to find the picture I took of someone who cloned my avatar.
[13:17]	:	it's not impersonationg if they cant change the account name
[13:17]	:	you can use that same method to copy the user name too jeremy
[13:17]	 	has pinged you.
[13:17]	:	I'm pretty sure that's not why that feature is in there. Display names take unicode now, so display names can get really complicated. You might want to be able to write or say someone's name properly later :-)
[13:18]	:	complete with a glitch that crashed every client... including the linden who arrived in god-mode to try to fix the problem.
[13:18]	:	Hello, Bronson.
[13:18]	:	echo it is impersonating if theycopy your look, your username into their display name and then go around pretending to be you
[13:18]	:	Hello, Dotty.
[13:18]	:	several peopel have already reporteded seeing fake munchflowers and ivey's
[13:18]	:	hey, Bronson... you might move to the side
[13:19]	:	sorry
[13:19]	:	np... just worried about the poor noob stuck hovering
[13:19]	:	Hello, Dotty, nice to meet you.
[13:19]	:	hi dotty
[13:19]	:	people need to understand to look at account names.
[13:19]	:	and not all nebies have the viewers set to show usernames
[13:19]	:	Hopfully the kb talks about that.
[13:19]	:	well, Echo, that's the problem.
[13:20]	:	it shouldnt be an option. the veiwer should ALWAYS show the username
[13:20]	:	how do they know to do that when they can't figure out how to put on their clothes?
[13:20]	:	Prioritization
[13:20]	:	worse yet, you walk up to a vendor to buy something......
[13:20]	:	you right click on it and choose "pay"
[13:21]	:	the box pops up and says "Do you wish to pay Vendor Owner $2500?" or whatever it says
[13:21]	:	but someone is wearing a giant invisicube and takes the money
[13:21]	:	that already happens some now WITHOUT display name confusion
[13:22]	:	We're working on it... There's a project underway now to overhaul the KB and SL Answers into something a lot more usable. There's a lot of good info in there now (including tips on avoiding the scenario Aargle just described), but it needs to be updated and reorganized.
[13:22]	:	that sounds a bit better, Jeremy
[13:22]	 	has pinged you.
[13:22]	:	but when L$ is involved, those display names really need to be gone completely
[13:22]	:	heres two easy fixes... make usernames ALWAYS show up. no option to hide them
[13:22]	:	Well, here's the existing article... It's not new, but maybe not advertised well enough: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Shopping_Safety
[13:23]	:	and make display names be unable to clone usernames
[13:23]	:	in my line of work, I've seen alread seen tens of millions of L$ in fraud. I tend to be a little over-sensitive
[13:23]	:	Cummere, I'm sorry but this isn't really the place for feature suggestions, unless those features are part of SL's online help resources.
[13:23]	:	they were both already requested and flat out said no
[13:24]	:	so im waiting for someone to sue LL as an accessory to fraud
[13:24]	:	/me certainly can't program those features on his own! :-/
[13:24]	:	fromt he twitter thread: BitterlysweetC
[13:25]	:	Jeremy, I was going to have my own info about the debit permissions items
[13:25]	 	has pinged you.
[13:25]	:	similar things on the forum. documentation to tell how to prevent froaud and spot these people is lacking jeremy
[13:25]	 	has pinged you.
[13:25]	:	Does Viewer 2 handle debit permissions poorly? I remember it was a big deal when we put a big warning into viewer 1.
[13:26]	:	especially since that's what 99% of my things are.... you might encourage people to check longevity of an avatar in-word and payment info for the seller.
[13:26]	:	you know, i've always wonders why during the SL installation it doesnt provide some basic kb about the in-world exp
[13:26]	:	yes it still handles them poorly
[13:26]	:	Me too, Echo. I've suggested it more than once :-)
[13:26]	:	RL calls bye bye
[13:27]	:	Thanks for coming, Calamity.
[13:27]	:	would be a nice time to intorduce some basic features like wearing prims on your head.
[13:27]	:	*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*You're Welcome!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
[13:27]	:	:)
[13:28]	:	Or moving, chatting, finding events, etc. Yep.
[13:28]	:	aargle does your system you made have an option to boot ANYONE running a display name ?
[13:28]	:	hm... not *anyone*... though, I think that could be possible.
[13:28]	:	I'll discuss it with Lamorna
[13:29]	:	oh, how about adding this to that page, Jeremy:
[13:29]	 	has pinged you.
[13:29]	:	Adding what to which page?
[13:30]	:	Are we talking about shopping or display names?
[13:30]	:	"Be suspicious of giving debit permissions to items created by people with recently created avatars, or that lack payment information on file"
[13:30]	:	well tehcnically i guess it would be eject anyone whose display name doesnt match user name, since if you dont have a display name the display name resorts to your user one
[13:30]	:	no, sorry... I'm going back to your shoppers warning page
[13:30]	:	gotcha,Cummere... though, that could get weird when their login name is "Dudly4732947.Resident"
[13:30]	:	Hm. What's wrong with people who haven't got payment info on file?
[13:31]	:	/me smiles
[13:31]	:	that's easy, Jeremy....
[13:31]	 	has pinged you.
[13:31]	:	number one refuge for con artists is a new avatar with no direct connection to RL information
[13:31]	:	a sizeable minority of them tend to be scammers or greifers
[13:31]	:	/me doesn't have payment info on file.
[13:31]	:	especially now that LL no longer requires a rl name on avatar creation
[13:31]	:	no, but you've also got a Linden last name
[13:32]	:	well ... i hate to be a pain... but yes, my alt has none but only cos paypal screwed up and got both my accounts frozen cos it didnt like multiple accounts registered
[13:32]	:	some people have valid reason
[13:32]	:	i did say sizeable minority kittycat
[13:32]	:	/me hadn't a bank account, when first in world
[13:33]	:	well, note that I didn't say "don't give permissions" just that I suggest being suspicious
[13:33]	:	most users without payment info are nice people
[13:33]	:	its the few that ruin it for anyone
[13:34]	:	oh, Cummere, I have no doubt about that at all.
[13:34]	:	it sjsut like MOST gteam members do their job right and will properly investigate complaints, but a few will ban without all the facts ruining the reputation for the rest..
[13:34]	:	however, when you're going to commit your entire L$ account to an object, you need to be cautious
[13:34]	:	both groups have a majority of good people, but the few bad ones require you to suspect both groups
[13:35]	:	and those people without payment are NOT typically creating such objects.
[13:35]	:	in my case, when I started selling for real, I bought land and got payment info on file.
[13:35]	:	/me waits for the hidden gteam member to ban her ass now
[13:35]	:	I didn't wanted to make sure I was a stable resident, not someone fly-by-night and there to do scamming
[13:37]	:	wow, I put that badly
[13:37]	:	ran 2 sentences together in my head
[13:37]	:	i still managed to get the jist of what you tried to day
[13:37]	:	Wrecked two trains of thought?
[13:37]	:	I wanted to seem stable, yadda, yadda
[13:37]	:	sorry... I'm feeling a bit dizzy today
[13:40]	:	If it's possible to impersonate, where the payment confirm window is concerned, that's quite a griefer op
[13:41]	:	i dunno if they fixed it back to where it only displays the username there
[13:41]	:	for a while it did have display name only there...
[13:43]	:	oh, what shows on your transaction history list? ... especially if the name can change on occasion?
[13:45]	:	Sadly, my knowledge of display names is incomplete. I haven't had a lot of time to play with it yet.
[13:46]	:	i think it shows username but im not certain
[13:46]	:	either way transaction hsitory does NOT use the new format
[13:46]	:	/me'll have to try the latest Viewer 2, a little later
[13:46]	:	That would make the most sense, since user name is your unique account identifier.
[13:46]	:	wellit should use the new fomat that would make it easier
[13:46]	:	the fn.ln format
[13:47]	:	Until new folks start signing up without a distinct first and last name :-)
[13:47]	:	it would still work. last name will always be resident
[13:48]	:	so many people i know that were coming to sl will not now because of the new names
[13:48]	:	I'm a little surprised by that. They won't come to SL because they can choose any name they want?
[13:48]	:	they wont come becuase of the passord name effect
[13:49]	:	when everyones last name by default becomes resident
[13:49]	:	everyones names start looking like a fricken password
[13:49]	:	which drives people away
[13:49]	:	if you wanted to truely give flexability
[13:50]	:	just unexpire retired last names or better yet make the last name completely choosable at username creation
[13:50]	:	like an increasing number of online games and services are doing
[13:50]	:	/me never considered Spitteler to be entirely flattering
[13:51]	:	do you really think someone wants to be adam1235faereasde69.resident?
[13:51]	:	even if thats only the user name and not the avatar display name really it does drive people away
[13:53]	:	ElectMeAsYourP.resident
[13:53]	:	That's one of the reasons we're offering display names... Your user name only serves to identify your unique account, but your display name is what you show the world. You don't have to be adam123faereasde69.resident inworld; you could change your username to Adam Resident.
[13:54]	:	yes but in world your username still has some sidgnificant things
[13:54]	:	well, Jeremy, I think I can speak for a lot of people in that we DO like that.... what we DON'T like is the free-for-all it can be and the level of fraud possible.
[13:54]	 	has pinged you.
[13:54]	:	on IRC, for example, you can log in as you feel, but you can also register that name...
[13:55]	:	and plus i think as id fraud becomes more and more rampent and people start pulling accounts from LL until they make display names be unable to copy residents usernames the ability to select display names will be hampered
[13:55]	:	and as long as you use it regularly, your registered name is just yours and yours to keep
[13:55]	:	Someone could take the name of Kitto Flora, and start selling non-fnctional locomotives.
[13:55]	:	agreed, Arawn... and I OWN Kitto's trains.
[13:56]	:	a smarter way would have just been to set up a system of (enter first name) (enter last name) -> your name is availible/unavailible
[13:56]	:	If display names become unique names too, I think they will be missing the point. It is perfectly possible for two people in the world to have the same name and not be fraudsters. Take this guy for instance: http://twitter.com/jeremylinden
[13:56]	 	has pinged you.
[13:56]	:	That's not me, and my twitter feed has caused him trouble, but we coexist.
[13:56]	:	and what possible reason would there be for another cummere mayo?
[13:56]	:	yes, but nobody is giving him L$. :-)
[13:56]	:	Try looking up Aaron Freeman, on Facebook, where I'm one of many in Connecticut
[13:57]	:	agreed, Cummere... and what possible reason could there be for naming yourself Aargle Zymurgy after this point other than for purposes of fraud
[13:57]	:	Yeah. Cummere Mayo might be a rather unique name in the world, but my real name, for instance, was taken in SL in 2005
[13:57]	:	and how many people really WANT to use their rl names?
[13:58]	:	if anything, the best bet would be to let residents specify any first and last name they like.
[13:58]	:	thats one fo the basics of any net safety course... NEVER use your rl name as your username or charactor name
[13:58]	:	Educators, students, businessfolk, and other groups with ties to real life would probably find the ability to use their real names useful.
[13:58]	:	msot students resist using their rl names
[13:58]	:	msot eductators not only resist it but fight it
[13:58]	:	exactly.. even given a choice I wouldn't use my real name here.
[13:59]	:	and I'm also an educator.
[13:59]	:	This isn't really my discussion to have. As I've said before, all I can do is report how it works :-)
[13:59]	:	though, no, I suppose I don't speak for educators everywhere.
[14:00]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:00]	:	maybe jermey but why is it that no one from LL would talk to any but a few when implementing display names
[14:00]	:	OH is oven in a minute anyways. Jeremy, please give some thought to my comments about avatar age and payment info in conjunction with debit perms
[14:00]	 	has pinged you.
[14:00]	:	hell i was for them but not implimented this stupidly
[14:01]	:	Again, I don't know, Cummere. I don't have a lot of insight into how a lot of these decisions are made.
[14:01]	:	Age can be gotten around, by stocking and saving
[14:01]	:	true, Arawn.
[14:01]	:	and i do hope that SOMEONE at LL understands that when fruad happens as a result of this system, LL is liable
[14:01]	:	and i need to go someone is skulking around my house
[14:01]	:	I'm not saying that my suggestion is absolute fraud prevention, but certainly a good thing to check
[14:01]	:	that's me, Cummere
[14:01]	:	j/k
[14:02]	:	/me wants to visit Cummere's house and skulk
[14:02]	:	Take care, Cummere. I think our time's up anyhow.
[14:03]	:	it was a fed ex person lol
[14:03]	:	tc jeremy
[14:03]	 	has pinged you.
[14:03]	:	ooh... love it when they show up.
[14:03]	:	Thanks for bringing your concerns. I'll be logging the transcript in the usual place.
[14:03]	:	them and UPS
[14:03]	:	so do i my new toy is here
[14:03]	:	they are doing a corporate merger....
[14:03]	:	going to become Fed UP
[14:03]	:	Cummere has a handsome Divorcee?
[14:03]	:	i wish
[14:03]	:	/me laughs
[14:03]	:	but i have soemthing a bit better
 
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