Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.05.06

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.04.25	Next 2014.05.09
== List of Speakers ==
Adamburp Adamczyk	Hexapoda
Hexapoda shouts 	Jenna Felton
Kelly Linden 	Lucia Nightfire
Mona Eberhardt 	Nalates Urriah
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Whirly Fizzle 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:02] Simon Linden: Hi Everyone ... I can get started with the server release news, which is very short since we didn't do anything this week with the main servers
[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kelly.
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[12:03] Kelly Linden: hello.
[12:03] Nalates Urriah: Wow... a Kellz without bling...
[12:03] Rex Cronon: hello kelly
[12:03] Hexapoda: Then it is not Kelly.
[12:03] Simon Linden: We did have an update yesterday to the back-end group chat servers, but before anyone throws a party this was not expected to fix group chat
[12:04] Rex Cronon: a body-snacher;)
[12:04] Simon Linden: It has given me more information, however, so I'll be working on some more improvements
[12:05] Simon Linden: That's all I have for news this week, so the floor is open for questions or topics
[12:06] Adamburp Adamczyk: I'd like to mention a positive note ref Ebbe
[12:06] Adamburp Adamczyk: I've seen quite a few of your colleagues inworld this past week, deffo a good sign
[12:06] Jenna Felton: i have a question about keyframed motions
[12:06] Hexapoda: Not a server question, but when will new mash avatars come to inventory?
[12:06] Simon Linden: That's good to hear ... I think people are getting out more. I know I am
[12:06] Hexapoda: Library
[12:07] Simon Linden: I don't have a date for the new AVs ... and we can't announce new stuff like that here, it's up to the product people to take care of announcements like that
[12:08] Simon Linden: What's your question, Jenna?
[12:08] Jenna Felton: namelly, the keyframed motion needs prims to be set the physic shape conves hull or none.
[12:08] Jenna Felton: is that definitelly good idea for mesh prims too, because of their own mesh shape
[12:08] Simon Linden: ok, right
[12:08] Seewo (siwo): huh? really? there will be new avatars? human ones? No more 2.7m tall giants?
[12:08] Adamburp Adamczyk: funnily enough , i bumped into Ebbe around here - it was impressive he took tiem for a conversation, albeit only a few minutes, quite imoressed :)
[12:09] Hexapoda: I miss a Ebbe cutout here.
[12:09] Simon Linden: There's going to be an additional set of new avatars that take full advantage of the latest features
[12:10] Jenna Felton: that was a question. because i am trying to make a tunnel-shaped mesh to be moved via KFM and the tunnel is closed automatically, no way to go trough. so i have to split the tunnel in parts to ensure i get the hole inside
[12:10] Simon Linden: I've seen some prototypes and they're pretty good
[12:10] Seewo (siwo): neat
[12:10] Simon Linden: Hmmm ... I don't know if there's a work-around for that, Jenna
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: I heard Damien Fate is working with Tim Burton to make even more creepier av's for SL, heh
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: that is a jk btw
[12:11] Simon Linden: if you like creepy, you'll like some of the new ones
[12:12] Jenna Felton: ok, i hoped the mesh would be allowed to have any physic shape, but thank you Simon.
[12:12] Simon Linden: They must have put a restriction there for performance reasons
[12:12] Simon Linden: a concave collision shape would be pretty expensive
[12:13] Rex Cronon: they flexible bones and sagging skins
[12:13] Rex Cronon: ?
[12:13] Rex Cronon: they have*
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: Cruella Deville av?
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:14] Jenna Felton: and when there are no mesh avies in library, than there must be some. but they should have the own clothes in the library too, or animal/robots that dont need new clothes :) Otherwise the newbies will be pushed into needs of new clothes, that is probably good for market but not newbie-friedly
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: of teh top of my head sorry
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: I've heard a complaint that there isn't any freeibe bits offered in teh library, heh
[12:15] Simon Linden: I'm not sure what kind of options will be around for these. And you're right, it would be nice if there were some easy ways to customize and get into modifying your look for newbies
[12:16] Whirly Fizzle: Not sure its a good idea to put a noob in a full mesh avi. One of the first things most people do is tweak their avatar and someone new won't understand why all the freebies they just picked up won't work heh
[12:17] Hexapoda shouts: OBAKER!
[12:17] Simon Linden: That's an interesting point, Whirly. I'm not working with the new AV project or the others looking at new user experience but in any case it's nice they can be taught how to customize their AV early on
[12:17] Jenna Felton: perhaps there must be some kind of inworld freeby area sponsored by LL so the avatars could come and pick up selected and thus good things for free.
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: Well true.
[12:17] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:17] Simon Linden: Hey Baker, do you have any news for the group?
[12:18] Whirly Fizzle: Will the new mesh bodies be fitmesh?
[12:18] Simon Linden: I believe so, Whirly
[12:18] Simon Linden: and I think they're using lots of the new materials
[12:18] Adamburp Adamczyk: jenna, im me
[12:18] Hexapoda: LL need to get more new things in the library that new users can look at, mesh fruits, materials and new script examples.
[12:18] Adamburp Adamczyk: or see Amber's profiel picks
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Hopefully they don't have the AMD stretch to <0,0,0> bug :D
[12:19] Adamburp Adamczyk: not sponsorsed per se, but lsited
[12:19] Simon Linden: is that the graphics glitch where long things stretch out of the AV?
[12:19] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:19] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: lol
[12:20] Jenna Felton smiles
[12:20] Rex Cronon: i need a pet that kills chickens;)
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: that stretch also occurs for v1 viewers that can't render fitted mesh afaik too
[12:20] Simon Linden: I have a RL terrier that does that
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: Noobs won't be on a an old V1 though
[12:20] Rex Cronon: just make a sl version of it:)
[12:21] Seewo (siwo): this was probably asked many times before... could we get functions to handle child prims' inventory? ...or at least one function to delete content [scripts, to be more precise] from all prims in linkset?
[12:21] Simon Linden: Since it's quiet .. I have a question ... let's say, just theoretically of course, you had LSL functions for materials ....
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: I think Jenna wrote that request, siwo
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: o.O so theoretically, is it being worked on?
[12:22] Seewo (siwo): oh, okay
[12:22] Simon Linden: perhaps in a parallel universe or something ... but how often do you think you would be making calls? Obviously it varies by use case, but what types of things do you have in mind?
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: I need it to update in all my plates for my shield
[12:23] Rex Cronon: if u could apply those functions to what u were, or even to your body(if its mesh)...
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: which could be a max of 32 objects at once, heh
[12:23] Kelly Linden: how often lucy?
[12:23] Simon Linden: so Lucy, that would be a rarely generated update?
[12:23] Rex Cronon: to what u wear*
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: the problem I have atm is I want materials to be able to turn them on for the plate styles that use them
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: and only once per rez
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: some tyles don't use them some do
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: but atm since I don't have materials by script, the ones that don't need them look like crap
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: see
[12:24] Rex Cronon: the updates depend on much is lucy being used as a target:)
[12:25] Nalates Urriah: I might use a normal map change on a force field door. Collision change to an animated mode to simulate ripples in a surface...
[12:25] Mona Eberhardt: We could also enhance texture and colour change HUDs this way, Simon.
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: basically I would have them on by default, but kill materials if teh style doesn't need it
[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: You mean use materials on the actual HUDs? Mats don't render on HUDs
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: No, Whirly.
[12:26] Simon Linden: I'm concerned .... or I would be, if I was working on it .... about how many updates these would cause. There's a huge difference between a one-time change and ongoing animation that changes settings every few frames
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: I mentioned my case as I think it may be a higher frequency use case
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: I mean we could use texture and colour change HUDs that would also (simultaneously) control the normal and spec maps as well.
[12:26] Rex Cronon: imagine a dance floor that chages each time somebody moves on it:)
[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: Oh yeah, that would be the most widely used case I think Mona
[12:27] Simon Linden: Right, I think there are a lot of things that can use a script to rarely change the texture and material
[12:27] Mona Eberhardt: And the most mundane, actually.
[12:27] Lucia Nightfire: a progressive wet to dry look in clothing would be the highest frequency change off the top of my head
[12:27] Nalates Urriah: You know someone will try to use it wity muzzle flashes on an automatic firing 12 rounds per sec...
[12:27] Whirly Fizzle: lol yeah
[12:27] Rex Cronon: lol nalates
[12:27] Simon Linden: lol Nal - you're totally right
[12:28] Nalates Urriah: (facepalm)
[12:28] Rex Cronon: lol cubes:)
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: overkill
[12:28] Mona Eberhardt: As for "rarely", Simon, let me tell you that, when one is going through a texture/colour change HUD's options, they tend to change their selection every 2 to 5 seconds, depending on how long it takes for the textures to rez.
[12:28] Mona Eberhardt: So, I guess once per second would be the fastest reasonable rate.
[12:28] Whirly Fizzle: I guess theres going to be a throttle for the calls? - theoreticlly......
[12:28] Simon Linden: and however it might be done, someone is going to push the limits about how fast it'll work ... and how many hundreds of prims going as fast as possible will affect the region
[12:29] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:29] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: many combat HUD already have update bomber objects sadly
[12:30] Mona Eberhardt: WTF is it with combat (euphemism for griefing) HUDs?
[12:30] Simon Linden: Right, I'm not sure this might be any different from what we have now
[12:30] Rex Cronon: isn't it for lolz?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: no, its unnecessary spam in teh hands of people that use it for vengeance
[12:31] Jenna Felton: i can imagine large RP scenes that are changed and using materials, probably with no limits. but then the scene will be not changed for hours.
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: but thats another arguement entirely
[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: Hmmm those animated mesh kitty tails that are already performance killers, if those used materials togather with mesh flipping, I wonder how nasty it would be
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: animated mesh kitty tails?
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: tail of doom
[12:31] Rex Cronon: multi prims tails that move
[12:31] Simon Linden: yeah, I've seen those
[12:31] Lucia Nightfire: didn't I file that jira?
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: how did they do it?
[12:31] Whirly Fizzle: Death tails. They will crash a 32 bit OS from out of memory in about 5 seconds :D
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: I've had to ask people to remove those sometimes due to them crashing other guests
[12:32] Rex Cronon: nope. i survive but it gets laggy if u r look at sombodies tail. lol
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: I know when one is in the area too cause I will get bad chop even from a distance
[12:33] Rex Cronon: looking*
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: This one is evil https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5358
[12:33] Seewo (siwo): I love those tails... but I always feel so bad wearing it
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: dirty tail
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: Dont want to name & shame creator so that issue is hidden, sorry
[12:34] Rex Cronon: those tails could be made a lot less laggy
[12:34] Simon Linden: yeah, I'm sure they could
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: hidden for my comment too hopefully
[12:35] Whirly Fizzle: Ya lol
[12:35] Seewo (siwo): well.. it is on going rot&pos change
[12:36] Rex Cronon: it could be done at different rates
[12:36] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm so, may be worth testing how adding mats to something like that affects things
[12:36] Rex Cronon: even a rl cat hold her tail still for a few seconds:)
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: That's true, Rex.
[12:37] Rex Cronon: btw. when will arrive the new feature of blocking sl-viewer installation on some operating systems? and what is the newest/latest sl-viewer version that doesn't implement this important feature?
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:37] Seewo (siwo): it actually has fps settings, but it looks weird with low values
[12:38] Whirly Fizzle: Are you still not going to put SP 3 on Rex?
[12:38] Simon Linden: I don't know about that schedule, Rex, or how it's going to be enforced
[12:39] Nalates Urriah: Rex, that is a question for Oz.
[12:39] Jenna Felton: but scripted material control sounds like a cool thing
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: indeed
[12:40] Rex Cronon: vey unlikely. i might use 7-zip to bypass that installation feature(assuming it works) or even goin as far as installing linux and the viewer on a memory stick(hopefully works)
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: Rex will be stuck on XP SP2 forever, heh
[12:40] Jenna Felton: perhaps you can add trottle for more than 30 material changes a minute and when things go not too crasy, lighten the trottle
[12:41] Mona Eberhardt: Yes, because SP2 does not transmit data to M$... *grins*
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: and I thought I was bad sticking to 98SE until XP already was on SP2
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah opening the installer in 7 zip should work & you can run the viewer directly. Or, you can cripple the updater by changing channel on the last build that will install for you
[12:41] Rex Cronon: hopefully not forever, but for a while certainly:(
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: Btter to just install SP3 though :P
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: *better
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: better to install win7
[12:41] Rex Cronon: because sp3 might mess with my existing programs
[12:42] Mona Eberhardt: Last week you mentioned something else as the reason, Rex... :/
[12:42] Rex Cronon: right. using the channel. although there isn't that much documentation about how that works
[12:42] Nalates Urriah: Rex, go to 7 and install XP Mode for the legacy programs.
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: Its easy. right click desktop shortcut -> properties -> shortcut tab, youll see a "target path" there. At the end, add a space and then --channel Rex (or any name you want for the channel)
[12:44] Rex Cronon: there r different factors that influence what i will do
[12:44] Whirly Fizzle: Updater won't ever update you then
[12:44] Rex Cronon: i am already doing that using test 123
[12:45] Rex Cronon: but not sure what its effects really r
[12:45] Rex Cronon: i am waiting for windos 13 nalates;)
[12:45] Rex Cronon: windows*
[12:46] Jenna Felton: why 13?
[12:46] Simon Linden: by picking your own channel name, Rex, you're telling the SL system you are running on your own version of the viewer. So you won't get updated or anything
[12:46] Rex Cronon: "lucky" nr jenna:)
[12:46] Jenna Felton: ah i see
[12:47] Simon Linden: SL relies on the viewer to identify itself ... and avoids the horrible problem of trying to do that securely
[12:47] Jenna Felton: i dont think there will be 13
[12:47] Simon Linden: it'll be something like WIndows VR
[12:47] Rex Cronon: thank u guys:)
[12:48] Jenna Felton: hopelly with integrated SL cliend as file explorer
[12:48] Simon Linden: right!
[12:48] Jenna Felton: client*
[12:48] Mona Eberhardt: Yes, with Oculus and Razer Hydra being the obligatory operating devices, and of course, it'll have a a billion users.
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: I prefer playing SL on a big screen
[12:50] Rex Cronon: simon. i thought it might also send or not send different data. based on what i heard ll doesn't seem to use it as switch
[12:52] Rex Cronon: btw. why is latest viewr i have sending a crash report each time i log off?
[12:52] Simon Linden: I think most of the send / don't send logic is based on the capablities the viewer uses or requests
[12:52] Whirly Fizzle: You need to update Rex, that bugs fixed
[12:52] Rex Cronon: maybe that is why u guys see so many crash reports?
[12:52] Simon Linden: oh good, I can blame the crash rate on Rex now
[12:53] Mona Eberhardt: Most of the crashes come from XP users anyway.
[12:53] Rex Cronon: i don't allow it to send it. it just bugs me to do it every time
[12:53] Whirly Fizzle: Unless you really are crashing each logout heh. Its probably the breakpad bug though
[12:53] Rex Cronon: breakpad bug? is it breakdancing or something?
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: The latest default release, you don't ever see the crash reporter, it sends silently
[12:54] Mona Eberhardt: It's the Google Breakpad.
[12:54] Rex Cronon: i have a firewall...
[12:55] Simon Linden: Since it's getting really quiet ... let's call it a day, unless there are last-minute questions
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: shineys
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: when
[12:55] Nalates Urriah: Thx Lindens
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: please
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:55] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today
Simulator_User_Group
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