Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.06.19

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2012.06.15	Next 2012.06.22
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	Arawn Spitteler	Crysknife Dagger
Elisha Richez 	God Emerald 	HUD v2
Jonathan Yap 	Kelly Linden 	Kitto Flora
Liisa Runo 	Martinrj Fayray	Motor Loon
Nalates Urriah	NiranV Dean 	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon 	Slee Mayo 	Widely Linden
Yuzuru Jewell 	 	
== Transcript ==
[12:00] Niranv Dean: *bing* lets start!
[12:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group
[12:01] Kelly Linden: :) Good afternoon and welcome to the Server User Group!
[12:01] Slee Mayo: herroh
[12:01] Niranv Dean: Hello Kelly
[12:01] Kelly Linden: We'll give it a few more minutes for people to show up.
[12:02] Slee Mayo: do you know if anyone is looking into what might've broke in the past rollout or 2? the SBs are crashing every 5mins meow
[12:02] Kelly Linden: Which Sandboxes?
[12:02] Slee Mayo: cordova, goguen, island, extension
[12:03] Slee Mayo: all public linden boxes...except goguen, they disabled scripts there when they added the adjoining pathfinding sims
[12:03] Slee Mayo: something has changed to make it easier for people to crash them
[12:04] Slee Mayo: my hud monitors the SBs, i'm sure we'll see them crash in a few minutes
[12:04] Martinrj Fayray: hello
[12:04] Niranv Dean silently mumbles: sounds like someone having a way too big e-peen (radar range) for the SIM to handle *rolleyes*
[12:04] Nalates Urriah: nice av Widley
[12:04] Kelly Linden: In general there is always a cat-and-mouse game of griefers finding crash modes and Linden fixing them or introducing new ones. In this case it has been a little while since we have had a general maintenance release which might tip that game in a certain direction.
[12:05] Widely Linden: thanks Nal
[12:06] Kelly Linden: Cordova in particular is in the PF channel, which is pre-RC and gets its own out of band updates. It does appear to have a pretty high crash rate recently though. I'll make sure the PF team is aware of it.
[12:06] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[12:06] Slee Mayo: ty
[12:06] Kelly Linden: All right lets get started.
[12:07] Kelly Linden: Simon and Andrew are out today.
[12:07] Niranv Dean: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7824
[12:07] JIRA-helper: [#SVC-7824] As a user i want to customize my walk/run/crouch/fly speed without scripts
[12:07] Niranv Dean: lets start with this then =D
[12:07] Kelly Linden: We did a new release to Second Life Server channel this morning that went smoothly. Primarily it addresses SVC-7902
[12:07] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7902
[#SVC-7902] Problem of not being able to rez on my land continues
[12:08] Kelly Linden: Amethyst lets wait until I get through the (very short) news I have.
[12:08] Niranv Dean: ok
[12:08] Kelly Linden: So, SVC-7902 should be on most of the grid now, and the rest by the end of the week.
[12:08] Kelly Linden: (after the other RCs update this week)
[12:09] Kelly Linden: Andrew said he got some "events of laggy chat" from Ardy Lay that he looked into a little, but doesn't have an update right now.
[12:11] Kelly Linden: That is all the server news I have today, I think.
[12:11] Kelly Linden: Widely: Did you have anything, or are you lurking?
[12:11] Widely Linden: really just lurking!
[12:11] Kelly Linden: all right.
[12:11] Widely Linden: thanks for asking.
[12:11] Kelly Linden: So, SVC-7902
[12:12] Kelly Linden: er no sorry, SVC-7824
[12:12] Kelly Linden: As a user i want to customize my walk/run/crouch/fly speed without scripts
[12:12] Niranv Dean: In comments it was said we could use Stopmotion to change our speed
[12:12] Niranv Dean: ive commented that this is absolutely ineffective
[12:12] Niranv Dean: as i can show here
[12:13] Niranv Dean: with stopmotion you will stop at any prim you try to walk over
[12:13] Niranv Dean: making it virtually impossible to move with held down stopmotion
[12:13] Niranv Dean: it also gives us only a reduces movement speed
[12:13] Niranv Dean: thats not usefull
[12:13] Niranv Dean: what we need is customisable walk/run/crouch speed
[12:13] Niranv Dean: to match our animations
[12:14] Kelly Linden: Why do you want it without scripts?
[12:14] Niranv Dean: because scripts are not working everywhere
[12:14] Kelly Linden: Shouldn't it be part of the script that manages the animations you are trying to match?
[12:14] Niranv Dean: and are hacky
[12:14] Kelly Linden: But if the scripts aren't working then you are using the default animations that should match the default speeds?
[12:14] Niranv Dean: ive tried creating such scripts , its unnecessarly complicated and doesnt work always and not correct
[12:14] Widely Linden: do know of specific areas where the scripts aren't working?
[12:15] Rex Cronon: it would make sense to have at least three options: slow, normal and fast for walking, running and flying
[12:15] Niranv Dean: Ahern
[12:15] Niranv Dean: Hazzlehoff
[12:15] Niranv Dean: Help Island Public
[12:15] Widely Linden: ok
[12:15] Slee Mayo: theres a trick to making scripts work in no script areas
[12:15] Kelly Linden: I think this jira could benefit more from some detail on the difficulties you have encountered with the scripted approach.
[12:15] Niranv Dean: yea
[12:15] Niranv Dean: but we cant always do such stupid hacks to get around
[12:15] Kelly Linden: Cases where the animation overrides work but not the speed adjustment, or why it is so difficult to adjust.
[12:15] Niranv Dean: ive tried a script that pushes me back when im walking forward
[12:16] Niranv Dean: resulting in a slower walk speed
[12:16] Kelly Linden: Nearly all work in LSL is "clever" in one way or another.
[12:16] Widely Linden: hehe
[12:16] Niranv Dean: i do not know how my AO does it for swiming
[12:16] Rex Cronon: we should have tip-toe walking:)
[12:16] Kelly Linden: I think there is probably something to this jira, but it forces everyone to take a lot at face value. I think it needs more depth into what the problems being encountered are.
[12:16] Kitto Flora: I've used scripted speed controll quite sucessfully for the SLibera poser animations
[12:17] Niranv Dean: the problem is that our animations cannot be edited in which speed they are played
[12:17] Niranv Dean: atlast not anything else than for us locally
[12:17] Kelly Linden: It is also possible there is a solution already that would address this problem more rapidly than a new server release, but it is hard to say.
[12:17] Niranv Dean: so we have to change something thats possible to change
[12:17] Niranv Dean: which in this case would be the walking speed
[12:17] Widely Linden: do you have access to the source animation files?
[12:17] Niranv Dean: no
[12:18] Niranv Dean: and even if
[12:18] Niranv Dean: i couldnt edit them
[12:18] Widely Linden: sure
[12:18] Niranv Dean: if uploaded already
[12:18] Kelly Linden: But again - if you have a custom animation playing your scripts *are* playing so I'm interested in why they can't adjust the movement speed as you need.
[12:18] Niranv Dean: no
[12:18] Niranv Dean: i bought animations from a shop
[12:18] Niranv Dean: like a lot of people do
[12:18] Niranv Dean: and some are just made for a more realistic speed of walking
[12:19] Rex Cronon: one of the problems is that after u upload an animation u can't edit it anymore. u have to upload a new one:(
[12:19] Crysknife Dagger: I have heard someone say once that if an animation is modifyable there is actually a way to change the animation itself, but I was never clear on how it was done.
[12:19] Niranv Dean: resulting in your avatar sliding over the ground instead of "walking"
[12:19] Niranv Dean: Pippa
[12:19] Kelly Linden: Amethyst: are you using a client side AO then?
[12:19] Niranv Dean: i made Slow Motion Animations customisable
[12:19] Niranv Dean: no
[12:19] Niranv Dean: you can change the speed of Slow Motion Animation
[12:19] Niranv Dean: resulting in customisable animations
[12:19] Niranv Dean: BUT only for you
[12:19] Niranv Dean: not for anybody else
[12:20] Niranv Dean: what i want
[12:20] Niranv Dean: is permanent walk/run/crouch speed customisation for EVERYONE
[12:20] Niranv Dean: so everyone sees me walking slower
[12:20] Niranv Dean: also , making an animation faster or slower doesnt always look good
[12:20] Kelly Linden still sees LSL (or whatever is doing the AO) as the best solution for that.
[12:20] Niranv Dean: it might end up looking like a rat on crack
[12:21] Niranv Dean: Kelly
[12:21] Niranv Dean: name me ONE AO
[12:21] Kitto Flora: To change walk/run/fly speeds per avatar would need serious mods to the physics glue. Its a major enhnacement.
[12:21] Niranv Dean: that can actually change your walking speed
[12:21] Niranv Dean: Kitto
[12:21] Niranv Dean: actually i think not
[12:21] Martinrj Fayray: will the LSL functions that allow that work also in no-script and no-push areas, Kelly?
[12:21] Qie Niangao: if it didn't *trigger* from the AO, it would be useless
[12:22] Niranv Dean: instead of just using a fixed value the server would just need to get everyones walking speed invidiually
[12:22] Rex Cronon: the problem with pushing yourself to either gain or loose speed is that if changes r made to havok u suddenly start going either faster or slower
[12:22] Kelly Linden: I don't actually know the features of the various AOs but it seems like matching movement speed to the animation would be a part of the AO system.
[12:22] Kelly Linden: Martin: yes.
[12:22] Kitto Flora: Exactly - thats a major enhancement
[12:22] Kelly Linden: Qie: exactly
[12:22] Martinrj Fayray: ok ty
[12:22] Niranv Dean: Kelly , scripting that would result in chaos
[12:23] Niranv Dean: thats physic fuckery in perfection
[12:23] Niranv Dean: and if your scripts are lagging this might end up very bad
[12:23] Kitto Flora: Probably result in more walk-startup-lag.
[12:23] Kelly Linden: Doing it in any way that isn't closely tied to the AO system in use seems like chaos.
[12:23] Crysknife Dagger: Wouldn't it just be nice to have the default, walk, run, crouchwalk, and fly speeds modifyable via script, wouldn't that solve most of the problems, most aos are made to work in no script areas, it has been a bug/misfeature for a long time
[12:24] Niranv Dean: yea
[12:24] Niranv Dean: a simple
[12:24] Niranv Dean: LSL feature
[12:24] Niranv Dean: thats as close as good as clientside walk/run/crouch speed
[12:24] Elisha Richez wonders if kitto has ever used an AO
[12:24] Rex Cronon: sorry. but there r places that no scripts work:(
[12:24] Kelly Linden: That seems plausible.
[12:24] Liisa Runo: scripts working in no-script are is not bug or misfeature, it is a feature
[12:24] Niranv Dean: i know that some scripts still work
[12:24] Niranv Dean: like when they worked before
[12:24] Niranv Dean: they will also work in no script zones
[12:25] Niranv Dean: but imagine
[12:25] Niranv Dean: you log in on such a no script zone?
[12:25] Niranv Dean: what now?
[12:25] Niranv Dean: doomed
[12:25] Liisa Runo: areas*
[12:25] Kelly Linden: doomed!
[12:25] Kitto Flora: Yep. Can we move on to content-breaking bugs?
[12:25] Rex Cronon: i know of at least one place that u can't make any script work, below 74m
[12:25] Niranv Dean: fact is we need something
[12:25] Niranv Dean: to easily change our walk/run/crouch speed
[12:25] Niranv Dean: or atlast walk and run speed
[12:25] God Emerald: Not techinically doomed. Just fly up to 80 meters and it'll reactivate.
[12:26] Niranv Dean: yea but thats just stupid
[12:26] Niranv Dean: always flying up to 80m
[12:26] Kelly Linden: All right, Kitto did you have a topic?
[12:26] Kitto Flora has a 'new' bug - breaks content - SVC-8007
[12:26] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8007
[#SVC-8007] Vehicle location incorrect when crossing region border
[12:26] Niranv Dean: and what if the SIM doesnt allow flight?
[12:26] Slee Mayo: enable flight
[12:26] Slee Mayo: admin menu
[12:26] Niranv Dean: yea
[12:26] Niranv Dean: but not everyone knows that
[12:26] Niranv Dean: and some SIMs may ban you
[12:26] Rex Cronon: people usually don't stay 80m up in the ground. they actually use the ground
[12:27] Rex Cronon: 80m up off the ground*
[12:27] Elisha Richez: yea but to activate the script rex....just fly up and back down
[12:27] Widely Linden: Amethyst, please feel free to append your JIRA with details as to the implementation you have in mind.
[12:27] Kelly Linden: Kitto: that sounds like there is a cross-region communication break there. Have you contacted support?
[12:27] Rex Cronon: it stops working when u get down
[12:27] Elisha Richez: nah
[12:27] Niranv Dean: it will
[12:27] Niranv Dean: in most SIMs
[12:27] Slee Mayo: rex, use attach
[12:28] Niranv Dean: except you were on a normal SIM before
[12:28] Rex Cronon: i know how to script slee:)
[12:28] Slee Mayo: once you get above 80m, re attatch then fly down, it'll continue to work
[12:28] Kitto Flora: Kelly - no - I filed a Jira as its a bug
[12:28] Kitto Flora: I dont think that either region is working any different to normal
[12:28] Kelly Linden: Amethyst: it is a decent idea. As widely suggests please add more details from this conversation to the jira. For this meeting it is time to move on.
[12:28] God Emerald: Or, an alternative would be to just use a client AO, if you can find a Nice! one.
[12:28] Niranv Dean: ok
[12:29] Kelly Linden: Kitto: Have you seen this behavior anywhere else? Has anyone else seen this kind of behavior?
[12:29] Widely Linden: Thanks for the topic Amethyst!
[12:29] Kelly Linden: That error generally means the region was unable to get its neighbor's parcel info.
[12:30] Kitto Flora: I think I saw something like it a year or so back - I cant find a jira for that event - but jira search is --- just plain bad.
[12:30] Crysknife Dagger: jira search is useful, but complicated
[12:30] Widely Linden: yes
[12:30] Kelly Linden: A year ago would have been a different issue - regions knowing neighbor parcel information is "new"-ish.
[12:30] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[12:30] Kitto Flora: That old event was fixed by trading land to remove the buggy location
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:31] Kelly Linden: What server channel are these regions on Kitto?
[12:31] Kitto Flora: Its unlikely that people would recognize this as a big - would just assume that 'as usual' SL lost the item on border crossing
[12:32] Kitto Flora: Kelly: Its one of the 'new' channels, I forget which
[12:32] Kitto Flora: I was going to file it under that channel in Jira - but theres no option to do that now
[12:32] Kelly Linden: I can find out, for the future though that channel and version is what is important for the 'environment' field on server issues.
[12:33] Kitto Flora: I dont know if this is a newly introduced bug, or has been there all along - and our neighbor has recently filled up their parcel
[12:33] Widely Linden: also include the info in the notes/repro section.
[12:33] Widely Linden: more detail the better.
[12:33] Kelly Linden: And for viewer issues, the viewer version and name.
[12:34] Kitto Flora: Environment only asks for my client environment
[12:34] Widely Linden: YES!
[12:34] Kitto Flora: Whats the channels names?
[12:34] Kelly Linden: Kitto: which you didn't enclude either, at least not fully.
[12:34] Widely Linden: We need that info and anything else you can collect is useful as well.
[12:34] Kelly Linden: For server issues we want this from the About dialog:
[12:34] Kelly Linden: You are at 262,100.0, 258,601.0, 32.9 in Denby located at sim7818.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.36.57:13002)
Second\ Life\ Server 12.06.06.259024
[12:35] Kitto Flora: Well its a server issue - why does it ask for client data?
[12:35] Kelly Linden: For viewer we want:
[12:35] Kelly Linden: Second Life 3.2.2 (245234) Nov 15 2011 15:39:08 (Second Life Developer)
[12:35] Widely Linden: Having your environment data included in the bug really helps to get an issue through triage quickly.
[12:35] Kelly Linden: But that is why there is a 'copy to clipboard' button that will grab the whole thing.
[12:35] Kitto Flora: Anyways - what software is on the sever is easy to discover
[12:35] Widely Linden: yep.
[12:35] Kelly Linden: Kitto: except it changes with time, so it really does help.
[12:36] Slee Mayo: you're not running the latest dev, kelly?
[12:36] Kelly Linden: Nope! Not today.
[12:37] Kitto Flora: So - about the actual bug? What feeling for this truncation of position during border crossing?
[12:37] Kelly Linden: It should get triaged soon, I think we generally get to SVC and SCR bugs within a week-ish.
[12:37] Widely Linden: if not faster
[12:38] Kelly Linden: My feeling is the neighbor parcel info is out of sync or broken for some reason. It may have to do with the version or an RC.
[12:38] Kitto Flora: OK
[12:38] Kelly Linden: Table is open for topics.
[12:39] Elisha Richez: when im sailing blake sea i don't really ever have a prob with my boats position after sim cross.
[12:39] Kelly Linden: Click: it is unlikely any parcels in blake sea are full though, so if there was a bug here you probably wouldn't trigger it.
[12:40] Elisha Richez: k
[12:40] Kelly Linden: If there are no topics, anyone have show and tell?
[12:41] Elisha Richez: keep yer pants on slee
[12:41] God Emerald: Actually, I have a question. Is there any extimate to when llRegionSayTo spam exploit will be fixed?
[12:41] Slee Mayo: huh?
[12:41] Elisha Richez: lol :P
[12:41] Widely Linden: Do you have a Jira #?
[12:41] Kelly Linden: The fix for that is entering internal QA "really soon now"
[12:41] Arawn Spitteler: I'm unable to sit on this block.
[12:42] Kelly Linden: Widely: I have it, it is an SEC issue so not public.
[12:42] Slee Mayo: do you think that's whats causing the SB crashes?
[12:42] Arawn Spitteler: It's a standard method for orbiter attacks
[12:42] Kelly Linden: Slee: no, that doesn't cause server crashes, just viewer crashes.
[12:43] God Emerald: I was playing around in the Pathfinding server a couple days ago. They crashed everytime I had too objects colliding at high speeds.
[12:43] Widely Linden: two objects?
[12:43] Rex Cronon: what kind of exploit does llregionsayto have?
[12:43] Slee Mayo: i'm guessing using objects to spam others?
[12:43] God Emerald: Yeah, I'm not sure in general what causes them to crash, but they pretty much break rather easily.
[12:43] Kelly Linden: It doesn't make it very private of an SEC if we just announce it before the fix is out.
[12:44] Motor Loon: hehe
[12:44] Elisha Richez: yea i noticed that too.....collisions seem to crash the sandbox's now....its either that or some silly hud attack that wouldn't normally crash the sim.
[12:44] God Emerald: @Rex. It causes massive packetloss until a user is ultimately d/c from the server.
[12:45] Elisha Richez: some kid shot me with a rocket launcher and sim crashed
[12:45] Rex Cronon: doesn't the same thing happen with llsay or llshout?
[12:45] Elisha Richez: he did it 3 times
[12:45] God Emerald: No.
[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: Is anyone here with an idea on how to go on with the sea level - changeset-war?
[12:45] Elisha Richez: hi andrew
[12:45] Martinrj Fayray: talking about VWR-29065
[12:45] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29065
[#VWR-29065] non standard sea level not correctly rendered around private islands
[12:46] Andrew Linden: hello
[12:46] Martinrj Fayray: hello Andrew
[12:46] Rex Cronon: hello andrew
[12:46] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello Andrew.
[12:46] Motor Loon: wasnt that fixed?
[12:46] Andrew Linden: Sorry I couldn't make it earlier.
[12:46] Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Andrew.
[12:46] Elisha Richez: wheres your partner in crime?
[12:46] Rex Cronon: martinrj. u might need to rez either a mega sculptie or a mesh
[12:46] Martinrj Fayray: maint-682 was fixed
[12:46] Widely Linden: The sea level issue(s) should be fixed.
[12:47] Martinrj Fayray: there are two diverging jira-issues
[12:47] Martinrj Fayray: when you fix one you break the other one
[12:47] Martinrj Fayray: there should be a possible solution for both
[12:48] Kelly Linden: Martin: Could you email simon a summary of the war going on there? I'm pretty sure he just fixed one of the cases again.
[12:48] Martinrj Fayray: sure
[12:48] Kelly Linden: Thanks
[12:49] Kelly Linden: Andrew: Any updates?
[12:50] Elisha Richez: widely sounds like a dog monkey
[12:50] Andrew Linden: The one bit of news I have, which you may have mentioned, is that Ardy Lay did tell me about some events of laggy chat over the weekend.
[12:50] Andrew Linden: I started looking into them this morning.
[12:51] Andrew Linden: I did find some clues. Two of the cases I looked at appeard to be caused by a misbehaving friendly bot.
[12:51] Rex Cronon: this is weird. i just got disconnected from my router, but the viewer didn'
[12:51] Andrew Linden: the other case was less clear
[12:51] Rex Cronon: t close
[12:51] Andrew Linden: but I'm still working on it
[12:51] Slee Mayo: oh, kelly, any new news on cht type 9?
[12:52] Elisha Richez: newline flood!
[12:52] Kelly Linden: Slee: see previous discussion on llRegionSayTo
[12:52] Kelly Linden: Status is the same.
[12:54] Liisa Runo: nya nya, i have candy
[12:55] God Emerald: Cast away your poisons.
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:56] Slee Mayo: does anyone know anything about the fight in the blake sea? yesterday while sailing we came across a big protest...some with signs wanting warships to stay out of the blake sea, some with signs stating free use of blake sea
[12:56] Andrew Linden: Kelly, did you talk about the crash rates myster you were telling me about yesterday?
[12:57] Motor Loon: yeah quite the circus there
[12:57] Andrew Linden: The Blake Sea War is news to me.
[12:57] Qie Niangao: Sounds much more interesting than the usual Blake Sea Peace.
[12:57] Motor Loon: People was protesting over certain groups using blake sea for warships (like simsized carriers) and playing war
[12:57] Rex Cronon: they want to make love not war;)
[12:57] Rex Cronon: ?
[12:57] God Emerald: Haha. Someone from the airport in Blake Sea told everyone on warships to leave or he'd report them for impeding movement.
[12:58] Slee Mayo: andrew, i mentioned to kelly before meeting about all the sandbox crashes since the pathfinding sims were added
[12:58] Motor Loon: well, SAIL-boats *do* have right of way in Blake sea
[12:58] Kelly Linden: Andrew, nope
[12:58] Rex Cronon: no way. u want to evict aircraft-carriers:)
[12:59] Jonathan Yap: only if the sailboat is sailing, and also if it is not overtaking the ship
[12:59] Andrew Linden: Slee, that is a recent rash of sandbox crashes? When did it start? when pathfinding was first deployed to a test channel?
[12:59] Slee Mayo: yes
[12:59] Elisha Richez: its been a pain
[12:59] Slee Mayo: mainly sandboc island, extension, cordova
[12:59] Slee Mayo: goguen is meow no script, so it hasn't been crashing
[13:00] Andrew Linden: Hrm... ok that is something I need to know about because I'm still working on the pathfinding project.
[13:00] Andrew Linden: I'll do a scan for those crash modes to learn more.
[13:00] God Emerald: Cordova crashed twice last night. Not sure if it was someone's doing or by error.
[13:00] Andrew Linden makes a note...
[13:00] Rex Cronon: if i am not mistaken there is/was a way that easily crashes when editing navmesh
[13:00] Motor Loon: probably the bullet-hitting-PF-object-crashing again
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:00] Elisha Richez: the pathfinding sims crash alot too either upon collisions or when someone uses a stupid attack hud.
[13:01] Rex Cronon: maybe navmesh is little bit too much for havok?
[13:01] Elisha Richez: some guy hit me with a freebie rocket launcher thing and right when bullet hit me the sim crashed
[13:02] Elisha Richez: he did it 3 times before i just gave up and went somewhere else
[13:02] Andrew Linden: Elisha, do you remember the time and region name?
[13:02] Crysknife Dagger: one would hope that the crashes are being logged and investigated
[13:02] Crysknife Dagger: rather than having to have them pointed out later
[13:02] Elisha Richez: it was pathfinding 6 i think about midnight or 1am PST
[13:03] Elisha Richez: yea it was 6
[13:03] Andrew Linden: Yes Crysknife, Maestro has been watching the pathfinding crash modes and filing bugs for them.
[13:03] HUD v2: Sandbox Island Extension is starting
[13:03] Andrew Linden: Falcon's been fixing them too. I know there is at least one fix in the pipeline that hasn't yet been deployed.
[13:03] Slee Mayo: thre ya go
[13:03] Slee Mayo: extension crashed
[13:03] Andrew Linden: ok thanks. I'll look up the data to see if it is the mode that was fixed
[13:04] Andrew Linden: there is a pathfinding update that will happen either today (PlanA) or tomorrow (PlanB)
[13:04] HUD v2: Sandbox Island Extension is up
[13:04] Kelly Linden: All right I need to head out, thanks all for coming!
[13:04] Rex Cronon: if u have 10 or more people trying to edit the navmesh at same time, what will happen?
[13:04] Slee Mayo: cya
[13:04] Qie Niangao: Thanks Kelly
[13:04] Nalates Urriah: Thx Kelly
[13:04] Rex Cronon: tc kelly
[13:04] Andrew Linden: Good question Rex.
[13:05] Andrew Linden: The navmesh only gets built when one of the editors says they're done working.
[13:05] Andrew Linden: But it might need to wait for the terrain mesh collision shape to built, if the terrain has been modified.
[13:06] Rex Cronon: until u finish editing the mesh, are all obejcts that r using it in limbo?
[13:06] Andrew Linden: while that is happening (and it can take a few minutes for it all to complete)...
[13:06] Andrew Linden: people can be modifying the navmesh objects
[13:06] Rex Cronon: oh. it needs to save
[13:07] Andrew Linden: the system should note that the navmesh has been changed yet again, and when someone says they are done it will trigger another rebuild
[13:07] Andrew Linden: so while the editing is happening the navmesh may be out of date, b
[13:07] Andrew Linden: but not a big deal for most of the region
[13:08] Andrew Linden: only where the navmesh things have been moved... pathfinding characters may get lost in the out of date areas
[13:08] Andrew Linden: that is, they may think a path is navigable when it is no longer, or will NOT take a path that has been added
[13:08] Andrew Linden: until the navmesh is up to date
[13:09] Andrew Linden: so no, not all pathfinding characters are in limbo
[13:09] Andrew Linden: they will be relying on the old navmesh
[13:09] Andrew Linden: and should work fine on parts that haven't been changed
[13:10] Andrew Linden: hrm... I think Kelly has left.
[13:10] Andrew Linden: I need the transcripts for the meeting, in order to publish
[13:10] Andrew Linden: Has anyone here been attending since the beginning?
[13:10] Nalates Urriah: yes
[13:10] Slee Mayo: i can save it
[13:10] Niranv Dean: yes
[13:10] Andrew Linden: Perhaps you could copy the transcript and send it to me?
[13:10] Nalates Urriah: I'll send a note card?
[13:10] Andrew Linden: Thanks.
[13:11] God Emerald: I have a quick questoin.
[13:11] God Emerald: Well, maybe quick.
[13:11] Andrew Linden: Sure, note card or email andrew@ll
[13:11] Rex Cronon: maybe there should be a que for those that want to edit navmesh, and once u edit it once u have to wait until everybody wating got their chance, and only nobody else is waiting than u should be able to use it right away?
[13:11] Andrew Linden: Go ahead God
[13:11] God Emerald: Are there any plans for object cameras, or mirrors. So that objects display an area of a region as sort of a texture. Kind of like cameras and monitors.
[13:12] Slee Mayo: liisa has some sort of camera/projector made with raycast
[13:12] Andrew Linden: God, that is a good question for the viewer team.
[13:12] NiranV Dean: another , SL can do that already but will never be implented thingy
[13:12] God Emerald: Yeah :| I've seen it.
[13:12] Rex Cronon: u use the water as a mirror:)
[13:12] Andrew Linden: I don't know of any plans for view portals or "imposters", as the "texture bilboard for a whole region" is known.
[13:13] NiranV Dean: SL can render water reflections in resolution higher than your actual window , which are basically mirrors , you cant tell me thats not possible or performance taking...
[13:13] God Emerald: Hmm, alright.
[13:13] God Emerald: Yeah.
[13:13] God Emerald: I figured all camera-object or reflections would be handled via viewer.
[13:14] Elisha Richez: should make objects render reflections in nirans ;)
[13:15] Andrew Linden: Ok, looks like I've got a copy of the transcript. Thanks Crysknife and Nalates.
[13:15] Motor Loon: oh may I have one too... I was a bit late today
[13:15] Rex Cronon: it would be interesting to put 2 mirrors facing eachother and than to step between them:)
[13:16] Elisha Richez: lol rex....that would be like cool and stuff
[13:16] Elisha Richez: that is if it doesn't crash u
[13:16] Motor Loon: thanks crys
[13:16] Rex Cronon: u might see your graphics card catch fire:)
[13:16] God Emerald: I just want to make a poral gun replical lol
[13:17] Nalates Urriah: Did you get a copy Motor?
[13:17] NiranV Dean: nope
[13:17] God Emerald: By the time they'd come out with it I assumed llTeleportAgent would be working.
[13:17] NiranV Dean: SL can render water reflections fine with absoluetly no impact
[13:17] Rex Cronon: u also need a camer that show what the other sime of portal looks like
[13:17] Motor Loon: Yes thanks I have the log now
[13:17] NiranV Dean: setting 2 such reflections to the opposite of each other wouldnt do much either
[13:17] Elisha Richez: do eeet!
[13:18] NiranV Dean: Click, me?
[13:18] Elisha Richez: yea
[13:18] Kitto Flora: Mirrors - all a client thing
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