Doc Team/2010-10-13

== Transcript ==
[12:56]	:	Hello Jeremy Linden
[12:56]	 	has pinged you.
[12:56]	:	Heya Nathan.
[12:57]	:	Missed the last two OHs here, the first due to technical troubles.... the 2nd due to... other activities on another grid
[12:57]	:	Looking a little green today?
[12:57]	:	No worries!
[12:57]	:	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characters_of_The_Neverending_Story #Atreyu
[12:58]	:	I'm dressed as that character for Halloween. :D
[12:58]	:	Ah, cool.
[12:59]	:	Yeah, I went as him last Halloween, too.
[13:00]	:	/me digs around for his old costume.
[13:00]	:	It was more appropriate last year, because I lived on a residential sim that was NeverEnding Story themed. It's gone now, tho. :(
[13:00]	 	HUD: 25170 bytes free
[13:00]	:	:-(
[13:01]	:	Neat av
[13:02]	:	Thanks. I got it as a gift for attending the creator's session at SLCC 2009
[13:02]	:	ã‹¡
[13:02]	:	is it something from Grendel's Children?
[13:02]	:	/me thinks.
[13:02]	:	I don't think so. It's a Kazuhiro Aridian thing.
[13:03]	:	ah
[13:03]	:	I guess ppl should have been straggling in by now... oO
[13:04]	:	Attendance has been a bit light lately.
[13:04]	:	Partially, I blame Oz for having a more interesting topic at the same hour.
[13:04]	:	yeah
[13:04]	:	I went to one of his OHs
[13:05]	:	I haven't been to any, for obvious reasons :-)
[13:05]	:	I suppose you could run two viewrs at once and go there as an alt... ã‹¡
[13:05]	:	True!
[13:06]	:	I don't think we have a Troll Linden account, though.
[13:06]	:	/me gives a goofy, lopsided smile. Chuckles.
[13:08]	:	Ah, someone else finally straggled ind
[13:08]	:	hello
[13:08]	:	Hello Laurent!
[13:08]	:	<----- is playing this character << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atreyu_%28character%29 >> (who was green in the novel)
[13:10]	:	/me has not seen the movie or read the novel :-X
[13:10]	:	/me smiles.
[13:10]	:	great avatar Jeremy
[13:11]	:	Yeah, we both decided to put on our Halloweeen gettups. :D
[13:11]	:	Thanks! I got it from Kazuhiro for attending her 2009 SLCC session.
[13:11]	:	everyone is on the mesh grid it seems
[13:11]	:	prolly, or at the Oz OH
[13:13]	:	Oz OH OH is at the same time ?
[13:13]	:	ah, another straggler.....
[13:13]	:	seems to be nothing BUT stragglers today
[13:14]	:	Yeah, Oz has Open Source Issues office hours right now, I think.
[13:14]	:	I need to get more popular!
[13:15]	:	/me gives a great big smile.
[13:16]	:	I've been shopping around the idea of having guest speaker Lindens at this office hour. Q sounded interested, and I bet I could get some others, too.
[13:16]	:	hmmmm..... I don;t think I ever got one of youur bears, Jeremy. Or do you have one?
[13:17]	:	/me points his beak at the bear next to the chair.
[13:17]	:	Yeah, some guest Lindens here would be kewl
[13:17]	:	Hello Bronson
[13:17]	:	yo!
[13:17]	:	/me waits for his inventory to load.
[13:17]	:	Hiya Bronson.
[13:17]	:	the mesh sims are open on aditi if anyone wants to play around with it
[13:18]	:	So, could I get a Jeremy Bear, please, pretty please?
[13:18]	:	lol oh only three people here, they all must be on aditi
[13:18]	:	It's pretty awesome. Some of the stuff in Google's sketchup repository can be imported without modification :-)
[13:18]	:	yeah
[13:18]	:	i've been there and even made my first mesh object
[13:18]	:	kewl
[13:18]	:	what sort of object?
[13:19]	:	sketchup is a decent starting program for mesh modeling
[13:19]	:	and also wings3D
[13:19]	:	amphora I've found on internet :)
[13:19]	:	I've BEEn thinking a might replace parts of my current skybox zone with a mesh object....
[13:19]	:	and if you like a steep learning curve you can try blender
[13:20]	:	I built a large multi-story catwalks section.... but being lartger than 10m in length, it had to use a lot of prims. Course, with talk of perhaps upping the prim size to 64m, that might solve the issue, too
[13:20]	:	<--- installed Google Sketchup, but hasn't really played with it much
[13:21]	:	the good thing with sketchup is at least you have some easier controls over texturing
[13:21]	:	blender for me has proved impossible
[13:22]	:	but I have to say though that you will be impressed with meshes
[13:22]	:	once all the remaining bugs are hammered out
[13:22]	:	they rez hella fast
[13:23]	:	and a greater potential for higher detail too
[13:24]	:	I wonder how long the public beta will go. Some were cynically suggesting ti will go on forever.
[13:24]	:	well during the closed beta everyone was pessemistic about it even making it to public beta
[13:25]	:	yup
[13:25]	:	so I gathered.
[13:25]	:	so I dont bother listening to the negative thinking
[13:25]	:	particularly after Qarl got dumped
[13:25]	:	oh I heard it all
[13:25]	:	I can't wait for avatars in meshes. I will be great I think
[13:25]	:	Yeah
[13:25]	:	from the time of teh mass layoffs all the way through Qarl getting axed
[13:26]	:	I can pass a link of an example of a rigged mesh on youtube
[13:26]	:	I was in it :)
[13:27]	:	thing of the matter is, I wonder how the clothing layer will be handled with Mesh av-shapes. I HAD seen it suggested the clothing layers would be a seperate object surrounding the av itself, which I'd presume would be more standardised such that the new type of clothes could then be more readily made to fit different humanoid avs
[13:27]	:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGuRL6RQvXc
[13:28]	:	LOL! This guy's a pottymouth!! :D
[13:28]	:	I am playing the part of the dark side
[13:28]	:	I am wearing a rigged mesh in that
[13:28]	:	Oh boy, it's gone Darth Vader on us! LOLOLLOL
[13:28]	:	lol
[13:29]	:	but depending on how big the rigged mesh is you are wearing
[13:29]	:	you might need to settle for wearing analpha layer
[13:29]	:	you're theDarth Vader-voice character, right? :D
[13:29]	:	an alpha
[13:29]	:	Im the character
[13:29]	:	but it was a voice over
[13:29]	:	lol
[13:30]	:	Alpha makes the most sense to me. Hiding the avatar mesh under attachments is why alpha masks were introduced.
[13:30]	:	exactly
[13:31]	:	Anyway, I'd heard it said there was supposed to be actual clothes possible with the new avatar system.... that is, not painted-on clothes, but prim clothes that flex to the av
[13:31]	:	are you talking of mesh clothes ?
[13:31]	:	witg rigged meshes you can do this
[13:31]	:	yeah
[13:31]	:	with
[13:32]	:	another good thing upcoming with mesh is prims will be able to get edited out to 64 meters
[13:32]	:	yeah, I'm looking forward to that.
[13:32]	:	and not just for meshes
[13:32]	:	but all prims
[13:33]	:	I have a large skybox zone, which wound up a mite primmier than I'd intended.... largely because I made parts of it to flipping BIG.
[13:33]	:	Some of it is megaprims, but I couldn't always find megaprims of the right size and shape, so had to use regular prims in some pars of it.... which pushed the prim count up
[13:34]	:	do we have to tie clothes to the skeletton of the avatar to have them follow his movements with meshes ?
[13:34]	:	the only thing right now holding it up is prim encrouchment
[13:34]	:	and Andrew is working on that solution now
[13:34]	:	Laurent yes
[13:35]	:	but you can also wear meshes like normal attachments too
[13:35]	:	not just rigged
[13:35]	:	Me, I want to get a more detailed version of my usual human self
[13:35]	:	yes but it looks better if the follow the movements :)
[13:35]	:	they
[13:36]	:	and I figure nekos and kitsunes will want to have mostly-human avs with baked in tails and animal-ears
[13:36]	:	but rigging will be a part of this
[13:36]	:	/me waves
[13:36]	:	Yo!
[13:36]	:	Howdy, sorry, hate tp'ing in the middle of peoples
[13:36]	:	Yo Aelf :)
[13:36]	:	waves at Bronson
[13:37]	:	it's not possible to do anther way here. tp is in the middle of the room
[13:37]	:	But the thing I;m wondering is.... if someone makes a human av in mesh, and has his... er.... uh.... "bits" baked in, will those now stay.... under his mesh clothes?
[13:37]	:	no idea
[13:37]	:	nods at laurent, "yeps"
[13:37]	:	I dont think I seen anything like that during closed beta
[13:38]	:	Hello Danial Voyeger. Is that a windup armadillo?
[13:38]	:	"Hey Bronson," she says, nudging the little creature, "like my new boots?"
[13:38]	:	Yes it is.
[13:38]	:	/me smiles.
[13:38]	:	good boots :)
[13:38]	:	I don't think our maturity policies are going to change significantly. Mature content is still mature content, whether it's baked into your avatar or not :-)
[13:38]	:	hey everyone
[13:39]	:	Hi Daniel.
[13:39]	:	if you are selling those you can add an alternative alpha layer so people dont need to wear the invisiprims
[13:39]	:	"Oh goodness, yes, I still won't be able to go around with my bits hangin' out"
[13:39]	:	Well, so long as the.... er.... bits are kept in the avs underpants.... I suppose they'd be safe in a PG sim... but I'm not a Linden and haven't looked at the ToS that closely.
[13:40]	:	I know some TPVs like imprudence and Kirstens viewer has alpha layers avilable
[13:40]	:	or enabled I mean
[13:40]	:	Oh, the alpha layer... together with the tattoo... that was sooo great to have...
[13:40]	:	yes there was a ton of under the hodd goodness in 2.0
[13:40]	:	Me, I'm looking forward to having on multiple items on the different clothing layers. Say, several necklaces.
[13:40]	:	under the hood that is
[13:41]	:	That way, I could keep on my usual beed necklace, AND wear a TARDIS key necklace, AND maybe an ID-card necklace, etc etc
[13:41]	:	Wait wait.....there is something GOOD about 2.0?
[13:41]	:	multiple attachments yep
[13:42]	:	Mind you, I'm waiting for that stuff to get supported in Phoenix and Imprudence and the like
[13:42]	:	If I'm not mistaken, alpha masks were visible on others (but not wearable yourself) in 1.23.
[13:42]	:	really the only thing currently not all that hot in 2.XX is the UI and teh chat set up
[13:42]	:	Erm.....I thought Phoenix already has multiple attach points?
[13:42]	:	but overall it is coming along real well
[13:42]	:	yup, the UI is the dog's breakfast.
[13:43]	:	Well, I cant get past the UI, and that the new one crashes now, cant even try it
[13:43]	:	especially with input from residents on teh snowstorm project
[13:43]	:	Yeah, Phoenix does, but it's a different and incompatible system
[13:43]	:	Ooh *she says mostly to herself
[13:43]	:	and you only get ONE extra attachment layer each.... the other system, I could have on, say, as many shirts as I wanted.
[13:43]	:	Wondering, if multiple attachments become in place (not only in some viewers), supposing many are scripted, won't that exponentially add to the sim load?
[13:44]	:	how 2.XX works is you can shuffle around your attachments
[13:44]	:	Oh thank goodness! Twelve shirt layers, finally! *etasing!*
[13:44]	:	so if you are wearing attachments already on say.. your head
[13:44]	:	teasing even
[13:44]	:	Yeah, I'm more interested in having multiple necklaces.
[13:44]	:	and you still have a couple spots with no attachments
[13:44]	:	Hmm, yeah, sometimes have to edit 'em around
[13:44]	:	you can use those for another spot
[13:44]	:	up to 30 attachments
[13:44]	:	I think its 30
[13:45]	:	you dont get more then you have attachment points for
[13:45]	:	so it is concieveable you can wear 30 attachments on your head
[13:45]	:	if the info I heard is correct
[13:46]	:	So, show up with 30 hats stacked up? :D
[13:46]	:	yep
[13:46]	:	lol
[13:46]	:	/me giggles
[13:46]	:	Nathan in a Hat
[13:46]	:	doctor suess
[13:46]	:	No... Nathan in 30 hats!
[13:46]	:	Well, you sort of can with the Phoenix and others...but you have to edit them, and if they are on say, your foot, they'd like, move WITH your foot, so kind of impracticle
[13:46]	:	I'm not really a hat person, tho
[13:46]	:	Oh, heh. Just got the reference :-P
[13:47]	:	hehehe
[13:47]	:	the old problem with the emerald attacments was taht the owner would see the attachments correctly
[13:47]	:	but everyone else not on emerald was seeing prims floating in teh air
[13:47]	:	True true
[13:47]	:	or floating way off somewhere else in the sim even
[13:48]	:	but those on another, Non-Emerald vewere would see them el--- yeah, waht Bronson said
[13:48]	:	lol
[13:48]	:	I havent heard any more complaints about 2.XX version
[13:48]	:	so maybe most of teh more glaring bugs were fixed
[13:49]	:	or they just got used to the dogs breakfast UI. :D
[13:49]	:	regarding multiple attachments
[13:49]	:	but the UI is something that snowstorm is also working on
[13:49]	:	touches her nose and points at Nathan
[13:50]	:	and if you are able to comeup with an idea or a simple sketch even
[13:50]	:	you can present it on thier jira
[13:50]	:	Dog's breakfast meaning cat's ....uhm...never mind
[13:50]	:	cats butt yep
[13:51]	:	/me gives Aelfwine a blank look.
[13:51]	:	but if anyone has been following 2.XX since the beginning
[13:51]	:	I was agreeing *she whispers
[13:51]	:	ah
[13:51]	:	the current version is already alot better then the origianl 2.0 incarnation
[13:51]	:	/me agrees.
[13:52]	:	I wouldn't know, cant use it. Whatever the latest version that we had to get, wont work at all for me, it loads, then crashes immediately
[13:52]	:	just the ability of adding or subtracting clickable buttons on the lower task bar was a major improvement
[13:52]	:	ouch
[13:52]	:	you can try the latest build of snowstorm Aelf :)
[13:52]	:	Too used to the old Emerald cheat comkmands anyway
[13:52]	:	they have I think a daily build
[13:53]	:	Nah, unless they have the tp to cam, gth XXX to go to height whatever, etc
[13:53]	:	They've lovely cheat commands :P
[13:53]	:	lol
[13:54]	:	I use TPVs too
[13:54]	:	(flr) will tp you to the ground, things like that
[13:54]	:	but I enjoy giving snowstorm a fighting chance too
[13:54]	:	can't think of a reason why..*she shrugs
[13:54]	:	(it provide LL employees a job)
[13:55]	:	Ah
[13:55]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:55]	:	I have a theory that 2.0 was sabataged from teh start to keep people employed fixing it
[13:55]	:	How's about letting the best viewer win? *she adds, with a small grin
[13:56]	:	I have to leave, bye everyone :)
[13:56]	:	but another good thing with snowstorm is TPVs can draw code from it
[13:56]	:	"oh my.... need to go...." = waves goodbye
[13:56]	:	/me waves.
[13:56]	:	I do too, actually
[13:56]	:	and thank you for the meeting Jeremy
[13:57]	:	Thanks for coming, people!
[13:57]	:	(and tinies, furries, etc)
[13:57]	:	Thanks Jeremy!
[13:57]	:	thanks for letting me blab away here Jeremy :)
[13:57]	:	ã‹¡
[13:57]	:	blabbing can be therepeutic. ã‹¡
[13:57]	:	These office hours tend to be more of an open chat session these days.
[13:58]	:	That's fine by me, though any doc issues people bring up will get priorty :-)
[13:58]	:	taht is how information gets around
[13:58]	:	sometimes some really good brainstorms happen with open chat
[13:58]	:	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAZCw5iiAS0&NR=1 <--- this looks interesting. MIrror test! :D
[13:59]	:	oh and taht is another thing
[13:59]	:	is that mirror-surface something that's due out soon, too? This is the first I've heard of it
[14:00]	:	there is a tentative step in taht direction
[14:00]	:	kewl
[14:00]	:	raycast will be part of meshes
[14:00]	:	and teh highest shiney setting in deferred rendering will allow a mirror like effect
[14:00]	:	/me almost confused that with raytracing, which would be awesome, but ridiculous.
[14:00]	:	and that mirror thingy is part of raycast?
[14:00]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	ray tracing
[14:01]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	lol
[14:01]	:	yeah
[14:01]	:	NIce
[14:01]	:	but yeah raycast will be part of mesh
[14:01]	:	Another reason to look forward to Meshes rolling out rto the main grid
[14:01]	:	and will allow some mirror like effects
[14:01]	:	or whatever else raycast is involved with
[14:02]	:	andrew and falcon cover it during andrews OH
[14:02]	:	when is that OH again?
[14:02]	:	hold on let me look
[14:02]	:	Ok, cutting here for the transcript.
[14:02]	:	[14:02] GG Office Hours HUD v1.5: Friday, 4:00 PM: Andrew Linden: Technical issues, SL architecture, physics engine
 Denby (213,45,34)
 
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