Doc Team/2010-09-01

== Transcript ==
[13:00]	:	Hey Jeremy
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:00]	:	Hey all!
[13:00]	:	Hi Jeremy
[13:00]	 	has pinged you.
[13:00]	:	/me jumps, "Oh.....hello"
[13:01]	:	How's everyone doing today?
[13:01]	:	Any way of knowing how many will be at Oz Lindne's OH right now? I went over here 10 minutes ago and the palce was deserted.
[13:01]	:	Oz can't make it to his office hour today. He had some real-life (outside work) business to take care of.
[13:01]	:	i have a question why are some of the linden in the recuting area not there do they send people over there?
[13:01]	:	Ah
[13:01]	:	Well, just pulled up the map and ONE green dot is on the sim...
[13:02]	:	Lego, I don't really know much about our inworld recruiting center. All available positions at Linden Lab are posted at http://lindenlab.com/employment
[13:02]	:	k
[13:03]	:	i have another question how is the Teens comeing to main grid how is that going to effect second life
[13:04]	:	Is that a "for sure" thing, by the way?
[13:04]	:	I can't make that prediction, Lego, but you can find some information here: http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2010/08/20/the-future-of-teens-and-second-life
[13:05]	:	In short, what I know is that 16 and 17 year old teens will be moved to the main grid before the end of the year, and the TSL grid will be taken offline and frozen. 13-15 year olds will be able to reclaim their accounts when they turn 16.
[13:05]	:	cringes, "And things are in place to keep them off Mature land?'
[13:06]	:	They're going to be restricted to G-rated regions only.
[13:06]	:	And adult rules are going to actually be enforced?
[13:06]	:	Oh...I dont quite see how, but alright
[13:07]	:	hi everyone, sorry a bit late
[13:07]	:	I don't have access to the technical details, sorry. I just know what we've released as public information :-)
[13:07]	:	now they can tranfer at anytiime correct
[13:07]	:	I mean, wasnt that the problem before..why they didnt just do that in the first place instead of move all "adult" places? ( I say "All" lightly, since there are hundreds NOT mopved)
[13:08]	:	If they could have just made it so you couldnt go to Mature rated land unless you were verified....*shakes her head
[13:08]	:	I don't know exactly how the transfer will happen, Lego. I think Teens will be transferred by Linden Lab on our side.
[13:09]	:	k
[13:09]	:	Interestingly tho, aren't there also Mature/Moderate and PG/General sims on Zinda? Will the teens have access to the PG/G sims THERE?
[13:10]	:	You know, I'm not sure. I'm going to see if I can pull in some reinforcements to help answer these questions :-)
[13:10]	:	Now what time will it happen on Dec 31?
[13:10]	:	Sorry Nathan, Zindra is JUST rated Adult
[13:10]	:	/me jeremy runs off to grab a coffee
[13:10]	 	has pinged you.
[13:10]	:	Now what time will it happen on Dec 31?
[13:10]	:	Yet notice how a search on JUST PG brings up Mature AND PG
[13:11]	:	Lego, I don't know the exact time.
[13:11]	:	k
[13:11]	:	LL made a mess of this.....if they could have just kept non verified off Mature....the whole thing stinks of a big fat lie, that they KNEW they were merging grids
[13:11]	:	Now in the final hours of the teen grid what will the Linden lab do?
[13:12]	:	Lego, I don't know.
[13:12]	:	k
[13:12]	:	There have been a lot of other bungled and heavyhanded things done by LL in recent times, too... their recent heavihanded actions with Emerald that came to light in recent hours.
[13:13]	:	point of order re emerald
[13:13]	:	for instance
[13:13]	:	if ll hgad taken NO action what would we all be saying?
[13:13]	:	Folks, I'm fine with discussing these issues, but please remember that my role at Linden Lab is as a technical writer. It's my job to write content for online help resources to help people learn how to use SL. That's what I know best :-)
[13:13]	:	catch 22 for ll on this, damned if they do, damnded if they don;t
[13:13]	:	Well, from what I understand bout Emerald, sadly, maybe it wasnt undeserved with the Emerald team hiding code
[13:14]	:	Now it sad that there closeing the teen grid becuase i still think they should keep it.
[13:14]	:	jeremy dont deserve a grilling on emreald
[13:14]	 	has pinged you.
[13:14]	:	not his area
[13:14]	:	Heh. I'm actually not even allowed to use third party viewers on any computer I use for work.
[13:15]	:	Well, they could have told the truth, which to me , is clear they didn't. If they could have "seperated" the Mature and PG lands, then they didnt have to shove people to Zindra. Now it's HIGHLY tipped the scale to anyplace NOT Zindra with search and all. They had to have known they were going to merge the grids, I highly suspect
[13:15]	:	Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:16]	:	Aelfwine: They'd JUST created a whole new team and were working towards a totally open-to-all-to-see mechanism for moving it forward, with no possibility of stuff being hidden int he code anymore.
[13:16]	:	Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:16]	:	(Ah, I surely dont know enough about Emerald, I cede that...and I have to run an errand, so....got to run)
[13:17]	:	Thanks for coming, Aelfwine.
[13:17]	:	/me bows
[13:18]	:	Now how will they tranfer everyone to the main grid on dec 31 what will they do do you know?
[13:18]	:	(Just FYI...anyone do a places search, and use say, the term "bdsm*" with the asterisk, PG only, and see how much pops up)
[13:18]	:	(Do I WANNA know how many pop up under that search criteria? WIll it give me the heebeejeebees? Oo )
[13:19]	:	onigokko
[13:19]	:	and how will they do it will they just be able to tranfer or will they just tranfered everyone at the same time
[13:20]	:	who knows, but i'll still be keeping my orb on
[13:20]	:	Ok guys, I'm told that the answers to a lot of these specific questions about the TSL move will be answered collectively in the near future. The folks organizing the move are collecting information and questions, and they'd like to clarify as much as they can in one big push.
[13:21]	:	ok
[13:21]	:	Which unfortunately means that I won't really be able to provide satisfying answers on that subject here today. Sorry! :-(
[13:21]	:	jeremy - is it true thte ontynes are going?
[13:21]	 	has pinged you.
[13:22]	:	if you know
[13:22]	:	my one and only experience with an ontyne was good
[13:22]	:	sim restart request
[13:22]	:	got to go see you later everyone
[13:22]	:	Thanks for coming, Lego.
[13:23]	:	where is torley today?
[13:23]	:	I'm not sure how much I can say about the Ontyne situation, to tell the truth.
[13:23]	:	if any of you ae from the uk , then the ontynes are actually based in newcastle upon tyne, hence the name
[13:23]	:	no worries Jeremy
[13:23]	 	has pinged you.
[13:23]	:	Hey Roger. Torley isn't on the Documentation Team anymore. He still works at Linden Lab, but he's using his talets to help out a different team.
[13:24]	:	Talents, I mean :-)
[13:24]	:	I do miss Torley being here. He was fun. :D
[13:24]	:	at the DoCTeam OH, I mean
[13:24]	:	Indeed! Torley is awesome.
[13:24]	:	i always rember upsetting torley
[13:24]	:	aww
[13:24]	:	quite unintentionally i'll add
[13:24]	:	I love the qoofy lines he tweets.
[13:24]	:	dose he still have office hours?
[13:25]	:	He did say he'd stop in here occasionally anyway, but I imagine he's super-busy lately. I know I have been.
[13:25]	:	er... goofy, even
[13:25]	:	one day he was saying people sepell his name wrong as "trolley"
[13:25]	:	Doh.
[13:25]	:	haha i said it like that for a wile
[13:25]	:	but where i am, "trolley" is a slang word for underpants
[13:25]	:	Deliberately or inadventantly? oO
[13:25]	:	not deliberatley nathan, no
[13:26]	:	Oh? How are underpants like a streetcar? :D
[13:26]	:	regional slang nathan
[13:27]	:	/me wonders if anyone makes undepants with pictures of streetcars on them there, to have fun with the words being the same.
[13:27]	:	It's a good thing slang doesn't work both ways.
[13:27]	:	true
[13:27]	:	/me nods nods nods
[13:27]	:	an underpants named desire
[13:27]	:	LOL
[13:27]	:	Yep.
[13:27]	:	*âœ°* UNDERPANTS! *âœ°*
[13:27]	:	Sounds Zindra-tastic!
[13:28]	:	trolleytastic
[13:28]	:	frim an urban dictionary, last i'll say n it: trolleys n. n. n. Kecks; underpants.
[13:28]	:	It's a triple-noun?
[13:29]	:	lol
[13:29]	:	hop skip and jump if you will?
[13:29]	:	for the triple :)
[13:30]	:	/me wonders if he should go grab a Captain Underpants costume and go ride a streetcar.
[13:30]	:	So, switching to topics I know about: Is anyone here using Viewer 2 regularly?
[13:30]	:	not i
[13:30]	:	nope
[13:30]	:	i use it a little, but i mainly use kirstens
[13:31]	:	When LL will pay me to...
[13:31]	:	im on it now
[13:31]	:	Hm. Interesting.
[13:31]	:	I use V2 alot
[13:32]	:	bitched about it heavily from teh start
[13:32]	:	oo
[13:32]	:	Low adoption has actually created an interesting dilemma for the doc team. We introduced a new feature (viewer help) in Viewer 2, but it's been hard for us to gauge how much people have been using it, since not everyone uses Viewer 2 :-)
[13:32]	:	/me waits 3 years for LL to fix the major failures in v2 before trying it again
[13:32]	:	bitching becoming less with each improvement
[13:32]	:	bueno me jalo
[13:32]	:	no hay ningun
[13:32]	:	latino akii
[13:32]	:	pz
[13:32]	:	width=100% style=" padding:0 3px;"
[13:32]	:	I'm sorry karlos, I only understand English.
[13:32]	:	Spanish*
[13:32]	:	Any chance they'll have a means of the user changing out the GUI on it at their whim to one closer to the classic GUI?
[13:33]	:	they are working on possibilities in regards to that
[13:33]	:	That sounds like a question for Oz or Snowstorm, Nathan. I bet it would be a good feature request for them to put on their backlog, if it's not already there.
[13:33]	:	but that will be with project snowstorm
[13:34]	:	it is already there
[13:34]	:	Oh, I'm sure plenty of ppl have reque--- er, actually DEMANDED that... :D
[13:34]	:	yes, alot of people are ok with teh underlaying code and features
[13:34]	:	its mostly teh crappy UI that is killing V2
[13:34]	:	I'm not 100% clear on *exactly* how Snowstorm is operating, but my understanding is that Residents get to help prioritize features in the backlog.
[13:35]	:	Any idea when the first iteratation of the Snowstorm viewer will be out, as somerthing other than a beta?
[13:35]	:	its not really a viewer per se
[13:35]	:	it will always be a "beta"
[13:35]	:	because it will be rapidly evolving
[13:36]	:	I'm not the best person to ask about that, Bronson. My understanding of Snowstorm comes from Oz and Esbee's keynote at SLCC :-)
[13:36]	:	I didnt ask
[13:36]	:	Im saying
[13:36]	:	nathan asked
[13:36]	:	Okay, lemme rephrase that. Any idea when the first viewer based on the Snowstorm project and that is complete and usable will be out?
[13:36]	:	Sorry, got some wires crossed.
[13:36]	:	ll
[13:36]	:	o
[13:37]	:	just keep checking weekly nathan
[13:37]	:	Nathan, I think Oz claimed that there was one available as of the time of his Keynote at SLCC.
[13:37]	:	have you seen teh snowstorm wiki page?
[13:37]	:	nope. linky?
[13:37]	:	They make them available frequently. Daily, I think, if you dig deep enough.
[13:37]	:	ah let me look
[13:37]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowstorm_Project
[13:37]	:	ty
[13:38]	:	there#'s a link on that page to the latest build
[13:38]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowstorm
[13:38]	:	yeah what Ellla posted
[13:38]	:	but check often
[13:39]	:	both those get redirected to Project Snowstorm
[13:39]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Snowstorm
[13:40]	:	try this one
[13:40]	:	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/snowstorm_viewer-development/rev/208872/index.html
[13:41]	:	/me checks the map to Oz's office.... green dots have all left.
[13:42]	:	Yeah, as I said earlier, Oz couldn't make it to his office hour today because he had an outside-work commitment to attend to.
[13:42]	:	if you happen to ever go to one of the scrums
[13:42]	:	lol
[13:42]	:	its wise to not say anything unless you are a commiter and its your turn
[13:43]	:	Has anyone brought up any online help or documentation items for the backlog?
[13:44]	:	(I'm not on Snowstorm, but I'm curious how they're handling it.)
[13:44]	:	I wish I could tell you
[13:44]	:	I did
[13:44]	:	got to go folks
[13:44]	:	cya :)
[13:44]	:	Thanks for coming, Roger.
[13:45]	:	I mentioned to Esbee that on the subtasks that are linked to User Stories ther should be awareness IF there's a need for documentation
[13:45]	:	Cool, Ellla. I'm glad someone's keeping documentation in mind when it comes to new features :-)
[13:45]	:	And
[13:45]	:	there is also a case where a User Stories is decided to be Expected Behaviour .. why were Residents not aware of it
[13:46]	:	so hopefully the Doc Team will get 'poked' in those cases
[13:46]	:	I'm not sure I understand, but I know I had a short chat with Esbee on Doc Team involvement in Snowstorm, and I think Jon's been talking to her as well.
[13:47]	:	Hopefully we'll be able to provide good coverage on changes to the Viewer as they come in!
[13:47]	:	example: at Nyx's OH there was talk about multiple layers and how replace and add work differently
[13:48]	:	it was more of a misunderstanding than a bug/new feature
[13:48]	:	so Why is there a misunderstanding ?
[13:48]	:	Ah, I see.
[13:48]	:	I would suggest that documentation needs to be clearer / more visible
[13:49]	:	I certainly agree in both cases. My current project is to do both those things :-)
[13:50]	:	I'm in the process of cleaning up a copy of the existing KB, making sure it's updated, and making it leaner, prettier, and more useful.
[13:50]	:	I think your job might be easier when JIRA is updated next week
[13:50]	:	Jira 4 ?=
[13:51]	:	Snowstorm issues/tasks will be clearer to outsort from the rest
[13:51]	:	yes 4.1 I think
[13:51]	:	cool, im happy to get new jira, i hope it is good
[13:51]	:	In the future, certainly. I hope to start taking documentation update requests via Jira. Viewerhelp bugs and issues may even get to be assigned as VWR :-)
[13:52]	:	Jeremy do you want some bugs re old KB links ? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-2699
[13:52]	 	has pinged you.
[13:52]	:	Hm. I found a few of those on the website today.
[13:52]	:	aah
[13:52]	:	http://blogs.atlassian.com/jira/2009/10/jira-4-now-available.html
[13:52]	:	Thanks for letting me know, though. I'm not sure who that should be assigned to; Doc Team doesn't have edit power on the website.
[13:53]	:	If you google it, you'll even find videos...
[13:53]	:	its a Meta issue with links to the broken links that have been spotted by Res.
[13:53]	:	probably Yoz I'll mention it at his OH
[13:53]	:	the redirect from old KB is finished ?
[13:54]	:	The old support.secondlife.com KB should no longer exist. I think it was completely discontinued a few months ago, which may have broken the redirects.
[13:55]	:	crickets
[13:56]	:	Sorry, I'm just reporting some of this internally before I forget :-)
[13:56]	:	yes the redirects are broken :(
[13:56]	:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:56]	:	Ain't technology wunnerful? :D :D :D
[13:57]	:	The technology is awesome. It's when we try to carry all our baggage over from one technology to another that problems arise :-)
[13:57]	:	/me nods nods nods
[13:58]	:	Alright, we seem to be in a lull now. If nobody minds, I think I'll cut here for the transcript!
 
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