Open Source Meeting/2007-08-30

Transcript from the 2007-08-30 Open Source Meeting
[14:00]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	about half the speed of the average PC
[14:00]	Dale Glass: 	hiya Rob :-)
[14:00]	Soft Linden: 	Ack - Rob, did I assume wrong in thinking all the open source meetings were moved here?
[14:00]	Rob Linden: 	hi folks
[14:00]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	the real test would be to comopare SL on an INtel Mac and on WIndows on the same box
[14:01]	Rob Linden: 	yup, this is where they should go. there's probably places on the wiki taht are wrong
[14:01]	Soft Linden: 	k
[14:01]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	then you can see what architecture/optimization/desgin is doing
[14:01]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	My guess is hat the pC will be much faster for SL even though OpenGL isn't officially supported
[14:01]	Rob Linden wonders if he can sit on the laptop, and if so, will he spin 	Rob Linden wonders if he can sit on the laptop, and if so, will he spin
[14:01]	Soft Linden: 	Oh sure - Apple's GL is much slower than Windows' unfortunately. It does have the advantage of supporting threading internally now, but most apps don't turn that on yet.
[14:01]	There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot. 	There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
[14:02]	Liana Linden: 	That would be awesome.
[14:02]	Rob Linden: 	sadly there's "no suitable surface"
[14:02]	Liana Linden: 	try now.
[14:02]	Soft Linden: 	Apps have to explicitly enable threaded GL on the Mac. It might only work on the Mac Pro as well; might not work on Radeon based MacBook Pros at least.
[14:02]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	heh. SO howcome eeryone can sit on my linked sign?
[14:03]	Rob Linden: 	awesum
[14:03]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	well without the surface you can still sit
[14:03]	Rob Linden: 	I'm getting dizzy
[14:04]	Dale Glass: 	I suddenly remembered
[14:04]	Dale Glass: 	there was some talk of a SL version with support for stereo rendering. What happened with that?
[14:04]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Hi there. sorry, need a moment to really arrive.
[14:05]	Soft Linden: 	Are you referring to the people who were doing it in the college's graphics/visualization program, or something else?
[14:05]	Dale Glass: 	those, yeah
[14:05]	Soft Linden: 	I think they'd said they already had it working - never heard of a patch coming back to us though. Could be interesting to ask.
[14:05]	Soft Linden: 	/softask Ask after stereoscoping rendering project
[14:06]	/softask: Task from Soft Linden accepted by server. 	/softask: Task from Soft Linden accepted by server.
[14:06]	Dale Glass: 	It would be cool to some day use SL like that
[14:06]	Soft Linden: 	If they did it cleanly, it would be nice to have around. Don't know if it belongs in the main viewer, but a source branch people can keep merging cleanly perhaps. :)
[14:06]	Rob Linden: 	We've been talking to them. we're just working out the formalities
[14:07]	Jansen Miles: 	It would be cool if someday a manufacturer would see fit to make a HMD that didn't suck.
[14:07]	Soft Linden: 	Didn't know - strike that then. Hands off here!
[14:07]	Dale Glass: 	I think that if it's not very invasive, having it in the main viewer would be nice. Shouldn't be a huge path I think
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	should we get started?
[14:08]	Liana Linden: 	aye
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: your item is first. which aspect do you want to cover?
[14:08]	Soft Linden: 	brb - I see a straggler in grasmere
[14:09]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	well, one question, basically the main question which occurred yesterday ...
[14:09]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	is about the release process. You know I aked the day before ....
[14:10]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	when a new release would be available, there was basically not really an answer ...
[14:10]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	except that A would make a snapshot and there was this discussion about ....
[14:10]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	until it magically appeared a few hours later...
[14:10]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	being part of the rpocess and exactly the moment I made a new build of my viewer and uploaded it ...
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	ok...that's a fair criticism
[14:10]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I see there is a public version.
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	I think the dilemma we all face is this:
[14:11]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	The same happend back then with the voice viewer. Soft had said ....
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	we're often not sure ourselves when we're going to be done
[14:11]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	probably in a week, and booom a day later there comes voice.
[14:11]	Rob Linden: 	....and so we become afraid of saying "we're about to release something", becuase we could decide to scrub it
[14:12]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	case in point: the dia liberacion
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	...and then have people accuse us of jerking them around.
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	we honestly thought the RC was going to happen late last week
[14:12]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	don't you get busy, Rob?
[14:12]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	dizzy?
[14:13]	Prospero Linden: 	The only other option would be to deliberately delay releases... don't release it when it's ready, but 1 week after it's ready. Then they could be announced. I don't know if that would be satisfying to anybody, though.
[14:13]	Soft Linden: 	What makes the date of the viewer releases important to know? Is this about not knowing what code is coming up, and is this alleviated by having release candidates?
[14:13]	Rob Linden is not viewing from his avatar, or else he would be dizzy 	Rob Linden is not viewing from his avatar, or else he would be dizzy
[14:14]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Welll, I'm orientating myself on your releases. Liberation isn't as liberating as it may seem ...
[14:14]	Rob Linden: 	that's my explanation of what's going on, but that's not to say I think we're doing things right
[14:14]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	and it sucks in a big way to do something new and not knowing when the next source comes out ...
[14:14]	Rob Linden: 	I think Josh was absolutely right to say "bug us if we don't push code weekly"
[14:14]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	which breaks the patch.
[14:14]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(sec)
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	...and yes, I'd like to get us to the point where we're actually doing development in a live repository
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	(live public repository, that is)
[14:15]	Prospero Linden: 	That *is* true of the two new things released open source, isn't it?
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	...but I'm not going to rush that process
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	Prospero: yes
[14:15]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(re)
[14:16]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Well, I can't speak for all, but in my case it would be absolutely sufficient ...
[14:17]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: weekly snapshots would be sufficient?
[14:17]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	to have an idea of the roadmap. I mean I'm a developer, sldevs are developer ...
[14:17]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: you are giving us WAY too much credit for knowing ourselves where we are heading ;-)
[14:17]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I understand if someone says "planned so and so, unless something unexpected happens."
[14:17]	Rob Linden: 	we'd LOVE a roadmap
[14:17]	Prospero Linden: 	heh
[14:18]	Rob Linden: 	I'll give you the three month roadmap now
[14:18]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Yes, but you knew last week that you had already planned it. And I explicitely asked Tuesday ...
[14:18]	Dale Glass: 	I'd like a roadmap too. Release schedule not as important though
[14:18]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	honestly, it's impossible that you didn't know *anything* at that day.
[14:18]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: we responded within 24 hours
[14:19]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Or if you didn't ... that would have been my question ... about the internal processes.
[14:19]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I didn't need a release. I just had asked for information.
[14:19]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	Cancellations can be unexpected. Hopefully releases are not...
[14:20]	Rob Linden: 	I realize that answer is kind of glib, but the problem there was that Bridie was working out the communication on that, and I didn't want to steal her thunder or spend a lot of time explaining what she was just about to explain
[14:20]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	but that doesn't mean you can be free to discuss them
[14:20]	Dale Glass: 	By that I mean: for me knowing you're going to work on something would be VERY helpful, having a precise schedule is not necessary
[14:20]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	my point dale.
[14:21]	Rob Linden: 	so, rather than a lot of handwringing about our past record, let me just tell you what I know now
[14:21]	Soft Linden: 	We've got a page summarizing upcoming viewer work on the wiki - Steve Linden linked to that during his presentation the week before last. We can't put dates on that, but it gives a good long-term summary of what's happening in the viewer, Windlight aside.
[14:21]	Wyn Galbraith would rather have a release canceled or delayed rather than have it released really faulty. 	Wyn Galbraith would rather have a release canceled or delayed rather than have it released really faulty.
[14:22]	Soft Linden: 	I don't know that we can get a whole lot more granular than that without basically saying what's entering QA, when half of the QA builds get turned back within the week.
[14:22]	Rob Linden: 	all sorts of good stuff from Steve: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Steve_Linden
[14:23]	Soft Linden: 	And with 'net distribution, there's really little delay between QA and release. There will be more with the viewer candidate program... hmm.
[14:24]	Rob Linden: 	the main focus now is making this RC successful. I imagine another Windlight First Look should be out before too long, but I honestly don't know exactly when
[14:24]	Soft Linden: 	Maybe the happy medium -is- to share the QA bug list summaries, to give an idea of what -might- appear in release candidate in a week, understanding that it's as likely as not to get dropped back out of QA.
[14:25]	Rob Linden: 	Soft: which summaries are you referring to?
[14:25]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I think you're thinking too complicated for the moment. At least as far as I'm concerned.
[14:25]	Soft Linden: 	With each branch we submit for QA, we've got a list of all the JIRAs that changed the content of that branch. Seeing that would afford a roadmap of sorts, I guess.
[14:26]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: what sort of timeframe are you most interested in right now? days ahead, weeks ahead, or months ahead?
[14:26]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Talk:Viewer_App_Cleanup
[14:27]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Rob, usually just the next release. But that is not the point. The point is ...
[14:28]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	that I had asked a simple question for information. Dirk had even seconded that.
[14:28]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(saying that finishing his patch would sort of be influenced about it).
[14:28]	Rob Linden: 	ok sorry
[14:28]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	In that situation it would have been sufficient if someone had said ....
[14:28]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	"there's something coming soon if it passes q/a which ma be toda or onext week ...."
[14:28]	Dale Glass: 	for me, a couple of weeks ahead maybe, for large changes. By large changes I mean things like "we're going to rewrite/remove/add X", where X is some fairly notable part of the viewer
[14:29]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	"and btw we have a change of process going."
[14:29]	Rob Linden: 	actually, I'm pretty sure I had said that last bit
[14:30]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I'm sorry then if I missed that.
[14:30]	Rob Linden: 	the problem is that we don't want to overcommit, because we've been guilty of that in the past
[14:30]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	But this more an example of the whole communicatin.
[14:30]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I don't know what was that (or when, probably before my time), ....
[14:30]	Rob Linden: 	let's shift to talking about what's ahead than a detailed postmortem of the past 24 hours
[14:31]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	but I have the feeling, and this may be at the heart of this discssion on sldev.
[14:31]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	If you don't share info because you have fear to overcommit and fear ....
[14:31]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	that a developer (I'm deliberatley not saying we because I don't want to speak for the others) ...
[14:32]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	doesn't understand the uncertainties ... then I feel cut off from the communication stream ...
[14:32]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	or feel like not being taken seriously ...
[14:32]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	and that has a tangible result on the atmosphere.
[14:32]	Rob Linden: 	ok. understood. let's try to talk about what's ahead
[14:33]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	ok.
[14:33]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(please I don't want to make this a thing about just my concerns :))
[14:33]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(anybody else?)
[14:34]	Rob Linden: 	I did a quick skim of some internal updates that we have here for what I can say publically. Josh in particular forecast that this RC could last a week if we're lucky, or could take much longer if we aren't
[14:34]	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Conover's Ultra-Smooth Flight-Helper activated... 	Conover's SuperSmooth Flight-Helper 3.0a whispers: Conover's Ultra-Smooth Flight-Helper activated...
[14:34]	Rob Linden: 	I personally imagine that we'll need to have one more RC build before we can call this done
[14:34]	Rob Linden: 	(at least)
[14:35]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Hello Dirk :)
[14:35]	Saijanai Kuhn is using it with no problems 	Saijanai Kuhn is using it with no problems
[14:35]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Good Day Wyn
[14:35]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Understood. That's more or less what I expected. But the rc-live will basically be this source with just the things fixed that occur in this one?
[14:35]	Rob Linden: 	it then seems the plan is to do a follow on release of maintenance stuff a couple months down the road
[14:35]	Wyn Galbraith: 	More like Hot Day. :)
[14:36]	Wyn Galbraith thinks maintenance releases for a while would be a good idea, "That's one of the big complaints I keep hearing."	Wyn Galbraith thinks maintenance releases for a while would be a good idea, "That's one of the big complaints I keep hearing."
[14:36]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	I know there's a bug in scullpties ahat has been uncovered with the lossless uload option
[14:36]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I fully agree there.
[14:36]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	lossless upload option...
[14:36]	Rob Linden: 	Saijanai, is that 1.18.3 specific?
[14:37]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	lossles I saw in the source for 1.18.3
[14:37]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	I believe it is. Someone was saying they were testing the lossless upload, which definitely wasn't in the last official release
[14:37]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	there may be a jira for it...
[14:37]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	No, came in with 1.18.3 with a max size of 128square
[14:37]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(saw it today in the source, dunno if it's in the GUI)
[14:38]	Rob Linden: 	so if there's something that's a "stop ship" bug, make sure it's in JIRA, and marked with 1.18.3
[14:38]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	there was talk about it. Qarl said it would hopefully be in the next (this) release so...
[14:39]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	I think Qar mentioned it before. A bug behind a bug, or something
[14:39]	Rob Linden: 	I don't think we'd automaticaly stop the rollout for something that's also in 1.18.2, but a newly introduced bug is a good canddiate to swat before rlease
[14:39]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Or a bug that uncovers yet another bug :)
[14:39]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Sure. What kind of stuff will you accept for the release?
[14:39]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Ah, okay, that answers it (and is what I expect of a RC).
[14:40]	Rob Linden: 	the bar /should be/ exceptionally high
[14:40]	Rob Linden: 	I'll admit, as an org, we're not very experienced with the whole RC thing
[14:40]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	LOL, I understand /should/
[14:41]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Well, if you ask me, that definition hit the nai on the head. Just things new problematic since 1.18.2
[14:41]	Rob Linden: 	I personally feel I've got a good grip on it, but I'm betting I'll be seen as too orthodox
[14:41]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Well, first of all... do no harm
[14:41]	Rob Linden: 	(by some)
[14:41]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	How much influence do you have there? Is Q/A playing their own game?
[14:42]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	(to stay on topic a bit)
[14:42]	Rob Linden: 	I have the power to throw a hissy fit ;-)
[14:42]	Wyn Galbraith would like to see that. 	Wyn Galbraith would like to see that.
[14:42]	Rob Linden: 	hell, Philip doesn't have as much influence as you might think
[14:43]	Rob Linden: 	though mroe than me :)
[14:43]	Liana Linden: 	I don't want to bust in on a good conversation, but I'd like 10 minutes at the end to get some ideas from you folks about how to use Hippotropolis.
[14:43]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	It was merely a question.
[14:43]	Prospero Linden: 	Oh, is this a new sim?
[14:43]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Home for Lost Hippos?
[14:43]	Liana Linden: 	Brand new.
[14:43]	Rob Linden: 	Nicholaz: as a more direct answer: I feel well equipped to represent the community when I feel there's a good point being made
[14:44]	Wyn Galbraith glances around and gets the urge... to... build... something. 	Wyn Galbraith glances around and gets the urge... to... build... something.
[14:44]	Prospero Linden: 	Set a whole lot of it as group owned (and terraformable) for the Open Source Discussion group, and see what happens :)
[14:44]	Liana Linden: 	And Rob's not the only one who actively represents the community at LL.
[14:44]	Rob Linden: 	absolutely
[14:44]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Well, I knonw this is a tricky question, which may lead to a muuuuch longer discussion ....
[14:44]	Dirk Talamasca: 	just now getting that urge? You had a whole sim a week
[14:44]	Wyn Galbraith: 	So you all throw hissy fits? At the same time?
[14:44]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	or maybe I should ask that off the record ...
[14:44]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I know, Dirk.
[14:45]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	are you feeling that the community is currently making good points?
[14:45]	Wyn Galbraith has been busy looking for RL job this week. "Been in and out." 	Wyn Galbraith has been busy looking for RL job this week. "Been in and out."
[14:45]	Liana Linden: 	Which is to say that we have rich discussions about the important issues raised by the community.
[14:45]	Soft Linden: 	We have managed a couple team hissy fits, yes. :)
[14:45]	Rob Linden: 	yeah, absolutely. we're going to try to accomodate
[14:45]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Oh team hissy fits are the best.
[14:46]	Soft Linden: 	But yeah. Little is decided by individual Lindens just broadcasting mandates, unless it's something that Linden can do on his or her own. With other stuff, we need to convince people that being on board with the idea helps the project.
[14:46]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	people are testing the new sculpty features as we speak, Rob
[14:46]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	OK.
[14:46]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	most didn't know it was there, even if they were running the RC
[14:47]	Soft Linden: 	As to other uses of Hippotropolis, it would be cool as a start to begin inviting some of the OS and OS-related groups to use the meeting space, for one thing.
[14:47]	Soft Linden: 	There are perl and ruby scripting groups, for example. And a number of Linux user groups.
[14:48]	Prospero Linden thinks perhaps some of the Linux groups should merge.... 	Prospero Linden thinks perhaps some of the Linux groups should merge....
[14:48]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I think that's a good idea Soft.
[14:48]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	I'm hardly having any connections there, but I have the feeling that it will deveop into a natural hangout by itself.
[14:48]	Rob Linden: 	part of what I"m doing sometimes when I'm being perhaps a little dense on the list is trying to get people to articulate persuasive arguments that I can use
[14:48]	Soft Linden: 	Well, I think some of them are separated by language.
[14:48]	Rob Linden: 	however, most of the time, I'm just being dense :)
[14:48]	Wyn Galbraith would like to learn more about other OS. 	Wyn Galbraith would like to learn more about other OS.
[14:49]	Soft Linden: 	Yeah. That's what I did by asking for bubble examples. Note that I didn't actually disagree. :>
[14:49]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	LOL. That's why I'm often being loud and even a bit cruel.
[14:49]	Liana Linden: 	Soft, I can make a wiki page that shows standing meetings when this theater space is reserved. If anyone here wants to extend the invitiation to other OSS groups to meet, please do.
[14:49]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Soft, I knew that shortly after you asked.
[14:49]	Rob Linden: 	The interestnig thing about loud and cruel is that most people at Linden respond very poorly to it
[14:49]	Prospero Linden: 	Might be good to let Creative Commons and those types of folks know about this space -- I know that some of the press coverage that LL gets from some fringe places is very interested in the whole open source angle.
[14:50]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	The problem with quiet and soft is that they'll probably ignore it.
[14:50]	Soft Linden: 	Sure, reservation time sounds smart. It would also be useful then as a way of promoting what else happens here.
[14:50]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Get more flies with honey then vinager.
[14:50]	Wyn Galbraith didn't spell that right. 	Wyn Galbraith didn't spell that right.
[14:50]	Liana Linden: 	Prospero, Cc has their own space, but I'll be sure to ping them for cross-pollination.
[14:50]	Prospero Linden: 	Nicholaz : not necessarily. Soemtimes folks will tune out somebody who's been loud and cruel too much.
[14:50]	Rob Linden: 	I'm very familiar with the style, because I've used it before (and in past jobs, it was the only way to get things done), but Linden's culture is one that values civility
[14:51]	Prospero Linden: 	Liana : yeah, I've seen their islands. I'm thinking cross-pollination and perhaps advertising. Plus, it might raise the attention of places like EFF, CC, Boing Boing, LWN, etc.
[14:51]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Prospero: I'm aware that I may be beyond that point already. That is why I kept out of the discussion on sldev mostly.
[14:51]	Rob Linden: 	so, we're down to less than 10 min, so I'll let Liana have the floor
[14:51]	Liana Linden: 	I'd like to see more informational kiosks about OSS generally that could be sprinkled about here.
[14:51]	Prospero Linden: 	Does OOo have any presence in SL?
[14:51]	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Liana. 	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Liana.
[14:52]	Liana Linden: 	I'm also interested in ways to engage non-devs in the OSS project. See the "casual contributor" idea at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Hippotropolis
[14:52]	Prospero Linden: 	OOo is a high-profile open-soruce project that should have more mindshare penetration than it does....
[14:52]	Rob Linden: 	brb
[14:52]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	how about vetted advertising for RL software projects?
[14:52]	Dale Glass: 	how about some space for people to show their stuff in SL?
[14:52]	Liana Linden: 	Dale, what kind of stuff?
[14:54]	Dale Glass: 	Well, I think it's a bit strange that I have a page on my stuff outside SL, but nothing inside it. So I'd setup some sort of exposition of what I'm working on
[14:54]	Prospero Linden: 	(This will be easier if/when HTML-on-a-prim hapens :) )
[14:54]	Liana Linden: 	The source stuff you're working on?
[14:54]	Liana Linden: 	I'd love to see expos of what developers are working on.
[14:54]	Rob Linden is back 	Rob Linden is back
[14:54]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Downloading an alternate viewer from a prim would be cool :-)
[14:54]	Saijanai Kuhn wants svg-on-a-prim with the prim's inventory sorving as local host 	Saijanai Kuhn wants svg-on-a-prim with the prim's inventory sorving as local host
[14:54]	Dale Glass: 	yeah
[14:54]	Soft Linden: 	Dale, like info kiosks about works in progress, or other viewer releases, or ?
[14:54]	Liana Linden: 	We also hope to get some LL devs to put up their design proposals etc.
[14:55]	Prospero Linden wants steak-on-a-prim 	Prospero Linden wants steak-on-a-prim
[14:55]	Dirk Talamasca: 	I think in general the plans you have to involve residents that may not necessarily be technically oriented is a good one. Certainly when it comes to directing them towards the pJIRA etc. While hammering away at code can certainly solve a lot of difficulties, residents are always out there pushing the envelope. It is good to know where they are pushing and have them report whether or not those endeavors are meeting with frustration.
[14:55]	Rob Linden: 	mmm steak
[14:55]	Dale Glass: 	Info kiosk for a start. I think eventually I'll be running a bot of some sort as well
[14:55]	Wyn Galbraith hmms steak. 	Wyn Galbraith hmms steak.
[14:55]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Maybe a short and sweet inworld tutorial on how to use the pJIRA properly?
[14:55]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Yes Dirk.
[14:55]	Soft Linden: 	Hey, that's a thought.
[14:55]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	how about a kiosk (not just here) that points them to jira
[14:56]	Rob Linden: 	would the tutorial be a video tutorial?
[14:56]	Soft Linden: 	I don't think a friendlier interface to pjira is in the cards in the near future at least. Would be nice to walk people through filing a bug together - see how to check for an existing issue, then what information to incorporate when creating one.
[14:56]	Liana Linden: 	Saijani: I've got a brief description of that on the wiki linked above. If anyone can fill that in and build it, I'd be very excited.
[14:57]	Soft Linden: 	Has Torley done a tutorial video yet? Torley's got a lot of other how-to videos on other aspects of SL.
[14:57]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	He had a blog post about it, I thnk.
[14:58]	Liana Linden: 	Basically, at this point, if you have something that's of value to the community that you'd like to put out here. Let me know. If it seems to fit with the island, I'll parcel out a spot for it.
[14:58]	Dirk Talamasca: 	If we could just get more residents to read the blog
[14:58]	Dale Glass: 	oh yeah, could you set up a stream?
[14:58]	Liana Linden: 	Right! That's on the list. Where?
[14:58]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Make it more prominent on the intro page.
[14:59]	Dale Glass: 	music I mean, in general
[14:59]	Dirk Talamasca: 	I agree Nicholaz.. Lots of space there
[14:59]	Soft Linden: 	Is Tofu's gstreamer code in 1.18.3? It would seem a shame to set up a stream on the open source island before that.
[14:59]	Liana Linden: 	Heh. Dale, when you asked for a stream the other day, I thought you meant a mountain brook. ;-)
[14:59]	Liana Linden: 	I thought you were SO eccentric.
[14:59]	Soft Linden laughs 	Soft Linden laughs
[14:59]	Rob Linden: 	Soft: think of it as test content to motivate the community
[14:59]	Rob Linden: 	:)
[14:59]	Dale Glass: 	heh :-)
[15:00]	Soft Linden: 	works :>
[15:00]	Prospero Linden needs to head out. "Have fun, all." 	Prospero Linden needs to head out. "Have fun, all."
[15:00]	Soft Linden: 	Take care!
[15:00]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	see you
[15:00]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Take care Prospero
[15:00]	Dale Glass: 	I'll have to patch the viewer some day to be able to use your own stream instead of the land one
[15:00]	Rob Linden: 	bye Prospero. looks like we're at the end of the scheduled time
[15:00]	Dale Glass: 	mostly due to my eeevil headphones
[15:01]	Liana Linden: 	I have music streaming on my parcel over by the sandbox.
[15:01]	Soft Linden: 	Dale - that's an idea that's been bounced around a while. Having a personal stream in addition to the parcel stream - so people could make in-world iPods and the like.
[15:01]	Liana Linden: 	But whether it's tasty to anyone else... don't know.
[15:01]	Soft Linden: 	If you ever made it support both, I promise that patch would get a lot of ready eyes :)
[15:01]	Liana Linden: 	Thanks for the ideas, everyone. And if you have more, throw them up on the Hippotropolis wiki page please.
[15:01]	Dale Glass: 	support ipods?
[15:01]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Jira can vote for it. There's enough time when I have rotten sound on sims.
[15:01]	Dale Glass: 	don't have one
[15:01]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL, that's a good one Soft.
[15:02]	Soft Linden: 	Dale - virtual iPod. A portable stream selector script attachment.
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith: 	New business possiblility
[15:02]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Liana, OSS being what it s ... just provide opportuninty and trust that it will fill itself.
[15:02]	Rob Linden: 	k....thanks all. I'll get the minutes posted in a bit.
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Can't call them iPods though.
[15:02]	Dale Glass: 	I was thinking something integrated in the viewer actually
[15:02]	Wyn Galbraith: 	iSLods.
[15:02]	Soft Linden: 	Naw - I'm using the term generically - like jeans, kleenex, or xerox.
[15:03]	Liana Linden: 	Nicholaz: point taken. The issue for our LL corner of the island is more about making sure that builds are not going to autoreturn. :-)
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith is thinking marketing already. 	Wyn Galbraith is thinking marketing already.
[15:03]	Liana Linden: 	Which is why one of the parcel managers needs to be involved in giving "commit" access.
[15:03]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Or provide parces with rights to various groups ... groups never resist a parcel.
[15:03]	Liana Linden: 	;-)
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Thanks for the meeting guys.
[15:03]	Rob Linden is going to hang out here, but tune out 	Rob Linden is going to hang out here, but tune out
[15:04]	Rob Linden: 	thanks all
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL @ Rob
[15:04]	Dirk Talamasca: 	Thanks Rob : )
[15:04]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	thx rob.
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith: 	We can throw darts at him.
[15:04]	Soft Linden: 	Yeah - back to the dev grid for me after I clear some IMs. Take care all! Thanks for comin'!
[15:04]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	BTW< Rob the first testing has been done and everyone is happy so far, so maybe I misread or its a very rare issue
[15:04]	Liana Linden: 	Nicholaz: That'll work to. If you talk to anyone who's interested, send them my way. Or, of course, you can host them on your part of the island too!
[15:04]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	don't puke on my laptop :-)
[15:04]	Dirk Talamasca: 	LOL
[15:04]	Soft Linden: 	Maybe we need a Linden dunk tank on the island. Can use it after the next bad release.
[15:05]	Wyn Galbraith might have to turn her laptop off till the sun sets. 	Wyn Galbraith might have to turn her laptop off till the sun sets.
[15:05]	Dirk Talamasca: 	They are very popular
[15:05]	Nicholaz Beresford: 	Yep, that is way too much land ... some will be put to some use somehow to the communit
[15:05]	Liana Linden: 	Sweet.