Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.05.27

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.05.20	Next 2014.06.03
== List of Speakers ==
Drongle McMahon 	Hexapoda 	Jenna Felton
Jonathan Yap 	Kelly Linden 	Lucia Nightfire
Melvin Starbrook 	Mona Eberhardt	Nalates Urriah
Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Tankmaster Finesmith	Yuzuru Jewell 	
== Transcript ==
[12:01] Simon Linden: Hi everyone ... let's see, I can get started with the news ...
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[12:01] Lucia Nightfire: hola
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: news: no news
[12:01] Simon Linden: Right, that's about the new
[12:01] Simon Linden: s
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi lucy
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Kelly.
[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kelly.
[12:02] Melvin Starbrook: hi kelly :)
[12:02] Hexapoda: New news is good news?
[12:02] Kelly Linden: hello
[12:02] Simon Linden: last week's roll was mixed up and delayed a bit but this week there's nothing new going out
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello kelly
[12:02] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
[12:02] Rex Cronon: afk 4 a few minutes
[12:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/No-server-deploys-scheduled-for-week-of-2014-05-26/td-p/2730794
[12:02] Simon Linden: I don't have a firm date yet but we're getting closer to having the LSL materials functions ready to test out
[12:02] Jenna Felton: hello all
[12:03] Simon Linden: That will be on the beta grid in a bit
[12:03] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Cool
[12:03] Qie Niangao: Yeah, that's very good.
[12:03] Drongle McMahon: Any inmfo on what they are?
[12:03] Simon Linden: The group ban work is also inching along ... I think some of the back-end server deploys were happening today
[12:04] Tankmaster Finesmith: good to hear
[12:04] Simon Linden: The LSL is new parameters and lists for llSetPrimitiveParams() and the like
[12:05] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Theres still viewer fixes being committed got group banz, saw some y'day
[12:05] Simon Linden: The get functions are like this:
[12:05] Simon Linden: [PRIM_SPECULAR, integer face] returns [string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians, vector color, integer glossy, integer environment]
[12:05] Simon Linden: Set functions are like this:
[12:05] Simon Linden: [PRIM_SPECULAR, integer face, string texture, vector repeats, vector offsets, float rotation_in_radians, vector color, integer glossy, integer environment]
[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: rotation in radians or degrees, Simon?
[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: can't wait, this year has been teh slowest for feature implementation yet, lol
[12:06] Mona Eberhardt: Because the build floater uses degrees.
[12:06] Jenna Felton: wow, we have materials now?
[12:06] Qie Niangao: (I presume the Gets return NULL_KEY for texture maps that the owner doesn't have full perms on, or however that works for diffusemaps now)
[12:06] Simon Linden: Not quite yet, Jenna ... "soon"
[12:06] Drongle McMahon: Will there ever be independent animation of the three textures?
[12:07] Jenna Felton: cool anyways :)
[12:07] Simon Linden: Yes Qie ... the same access rules apply as for regular textures
[12:07] Qie Niangao: right
[12:07] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Can someone kick off an updated automated group bans build? the last one was may 2nd & theres been quite a few commits since then : http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_viewer-voorhees-groupban/rev/289672/index.html
[12:07] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): I can build it but Id rtaher poke on an official build.
[12:07] Simon Linden: You really don't want to "animate" Drongle ... the updates and information really aren't fast enough to support motion
[12:08] Simon Linden: and we will be putting in some limit, but haven't figured out exactly how and what those will be
[12:08] Qie Niangao: actually, that's a different question that Drongle is asking...
[12:08] Simon Linden: oh ... ok
[12:08] Qie Niangao: as-is, the three maps animate in lockstep, with llSetTextureAnim
[12:09] Qie Niangao: there are "interesting effects" if they animated independently. (but don't change their maps)
[12:09] Tankmaster Finesmith: heya tech
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: like runnign water texture over a normal mapped tile
[12:09] Drongle McMahon: Yes Qie - that's what I meant.
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: something tells me doubling down will have to happen in a sense
[12:10] Simon Linden: We haven't looked into llSetTextureAnim() at all yet
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: I had to do soemthing similar with my shield plates that have multiple static and animated texture options all on the same prim
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: and faces
[12:10] Qie Niangao: (those "interesting effects" are mostly for smooth animation... but also setting offsets independently with cel-based animation... although that's not a big deal because we'll be able to change offsets and repeats independently now)
[12:11] Qie Niangao: I think animating the maps independently would take some viewer-side development, too... just a hunch.
[12:11] Simon Linden: I'm guessing that would be pretty ugly to implement ... or would need some careful design and thought as it couldn't create new material entries under the hood
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: that will be a thing later on though, heh
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: a wish I mean, heh
[12:13] Drongle McMahon: Well, I'm really glad we have independent repeats for now.
[12:13] Simon Linden: Right, I think that will have to be a follow-on feature ... I can imagine it might create some cool effects but it would have to be carefully done not to blow up the materials accounting
[12:13] Nalates Urriah: llSetTextureAnim() animates the material with the diffuse...
[12:14] Qie Niangao: yep, this is a *big* advance. Very happy to see it coming along. :)
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: it will have to be a new anim function
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: and, hopefully the rotation,repeats,offsets, and vertically scrolling inabnility can be addressed with a nex function too
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: bah typing
[12:17] Simon Linden: Hmmm ... things are pretty quiet today. Are there any other topics or questions people want to bring up?
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: more bombing across the grid, hopefully after scripted materials, you can have a look at that, lol
[12:18] Drongle McMahon: Can I ask about triangle-based [hysics weight calculations?
[12:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Can someone kick off an updated automated group bans build? the last one was may 2nd & theres been quite a few commits since then : http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/baker_viewer-voorhees-groupban/rev/289672/index.html
[12:18] Simon Linden: I asked Baker to check that, Whirly
[12:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Cool ta
[12:18] Tankmaster Finesmith notes whirly is a spammer now :P
[12:18] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): No one answered lol :P
[12:19] Jonathan Yap: Just give her the power to set those builds going, then you will not have any more requests from her :p
[12:19] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): No dont. Id break the build system ;)
[12:21] Rex Cronon: btw. i seem to have a slight problem. i mute an object but i can still hear it even though it is on the blocked list. how come?
[12:21] Simon Linden: How are you hearing it, Rex? Regular object chat in local?
[12:21] Rex Cronon: yes simon
[12:21] Jonathan Yap: Are you blocking by name or by right clicking on it and picking block?
[12:22] Jonathan Yap: Do you own it?
[12:22] Rex Cronon: i copy the name and add it manually to the block list
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: is it owned by a Linden or does the object name end in " Linden"? heh
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: hopefully LL fixed that loophole, heh
[12:23] Jonathan Yap: Is the object here?
[12:23] Simon Linden: oh nice :)
[12:23] Rex Cronon: is not owned by linden
[12:23] Mona Eberhardt: Any news on the SEC-1376 voice issue?
[12:23] Rex Cronon: not here
[12:23] Rex Cronon: i encountered a few hours ago at swt
[12:23] Jonathan Yap: Better to right click on it and pick block
[12:24] Rex Cronon: i thins was an attachment
[12:24] Jonathan Yap: An object can change it's name via a script
[12:24] Seewo (siwo): wait.... when I name an object Object Linden it can't be muted? :o
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: better to mute the owner
[12:24] Simon Linden: No Mona, I haven't heard any news on that
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: also, if you have both the owner and an object named after teh owner muted it won't mute them, lol
[12:24] Mona Eberhardt nods
[12:24] Jonathan Yap: If it is an attachment you can either block that person or turn off sounds from attachments in Preferences
[12:25] Mona Eberhardt: Is it a chatty object, like a "pregnant" tummy?
[12:25] Rex Cronon: in theory if something is on the blocked list, what it says shouldn't get to me
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: see my comment
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: plus there are other loopholes
[12:25] Jonathan Yap: Rex, an attachment is not considered to be a named object
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: like random float object name changing
[12:26] Rex Cronon: "Fen Tail2: Kopuchinko Resident ???????? ????? ? ???????? ? ???????? ?????? Tasmaniandevil5566 Resident? =^.^="
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: and certain chars chatted
[12:28] Rex Cronon: if even blocking an object doesn't work right i guess my hopes to mute everything and everybody has no chance of working:(
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: oh yeah, people are scripting rigged mesh to be vectors of certain on unmutable spam, heh
[12:29] Simon Linden: I think the little red "X" button in the upper right does that :P
[12:29] Qie Niangao: Oh, that works perfectly Rex. Just use the Ctrl+Q shortcut
[12:29] Jonathan Yap: Lucia, is there a jira for that?
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: idk
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: I have pics
[12:29] Jonathan Yap: Whirly?
[12:29] Rex Cronon: there r some times when i don't whant to hear anything on chanel 0
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: the particular object I saw was more neat than worrisome, but it had potential to be bad
[12:30] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): No idea Jonathan, never heard of that before
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: it also had 8 million for render weight, heh
[12:30] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Id like to see it though heh
[12:30] Jonathan Yap: I don't see why a mesh object would have different muting rules than anything else
[12:30] Rex Cronon: its "special"
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: and was not derenderable, lol
[12:31] Simon Linden: Mesh shouldn't have anything to do with muting, afaik
[12:32] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh, simon, are you aware of the region crossing while sitting on a vehicle issue some are having?
[12:32] Qie Niangao: tank, do you have a jira? (because there's some mighty funky scripted-object sim-crossing misbehaviors these days)
[12:33] Tankmaster Finesmith: theres a few
[12:33] Tankmaster Finesmith: whirly probably already has them ready to post
[12:33] Jonathan Yap: While we are on the subject of muting -- Simon, can you look to see if there is any progress on the internal issue for bug-4340 ?
[12:33] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Theres loads, Im not sure which new bug you mean. If you mean the ones I was yacking about in dev chat, those are FS specific side effects of those new AO fixes
[12:34] Tankmaster Finesmith: there was some talk in the blog post today about the no simulator updates
[12:35] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Oh yeah saw that. It wasn't very specific though it was just the usual region crossing woes
[12:36] Simon Linden: I remember looking into that one, Jonathan and as I recall, that field wasn't totally unused and available. It was going to take some work to embed that needed data, and it was kinda ubly
[12:37] Simon Linden: ugly too
[12:37] Jonathan Yap: ok, thanks for checking
[12:37] Tankmaster Finesmith: well, even if it is just our viewer, seems still notiable to bring up so at least they can know if its something thats only affecting our viewer or not
[12:37] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): No ones screamed on the JIRA about a new region crossing on a vehicle issue yet though. latest on LL JIRA is the https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5748 one
[12:38] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): WEll, that bug in FS is only in internal test builds atm. Its just the sit pose breaking on region cross when using the FS AO, its not actually breaking the vehiclke crossing.
[12:39] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): So, I don't know of anything new apart from that.
[12:41] Simon Linden: The region crossing one sounds like one of those cases where the parcel permissions may be blocking the object. It looks like Maestro was digging into it
[12:43] Drongle McMahon: Large effects of triangle and vertex order in the collada file on the physics weights of triangle-based physics shapes with identical geometries have been documented ...
[12:44] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh hey, wall of text
[12:44] Drongle McMahon: Sorry
[12:45] Simon Linden: uhmmm ... short answer is "I don't know" and that we're not likely to touch that accounting code because it's pretty ugly
[12:45] Tankmaster Finesmith: :P
[12:45] Drongle McMahon: Don't know how else to raise the issue
[12:45] Simon Linden: so I would go ahead and tweak things to get the low cost values you want
[12:45] Drongle McMahon: I'd love to see the code.... it would make the tweaking easier.
[12:46] Drongle McMahon: ,,,maybe.
[12:46] Tankmaster Finesmith: hg.secondlife.com :D
[12:47] Jonathan Yap: Simon or Kelly: did either of you go to the recent conference where Philip was the keynote speaker?
[12:47] Drongle McMahon: It's not in the viewer ... it's in the server.
[12:50] Kelly Linden: I did not.
[12:50] Drongle McMahon: So I assume it's not ther .... am I wrong?
[12:51] Drongle McMahon: *there
[12:53] Simon Linden: I didn't go, but I saw there was an hour-long video of a roundtable that looked interesting. It had both Philip and Ebbe there
[12:54] Jonathan Yap: Thanks, I'll try to find that video
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: anything new in the pipeline?
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: I'm still waiting for an action packed OH this year, lol
[12:55] Jenna Felton: i also have a question about animation permission. When a script is animating my avatar, does the viewer know what object and what script does that, or the script animating the avatar just tellls the sim to start an animation, and the sim does that, and the vewer just knows that is the sim staarting the animation?
[12:56] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): I was going to ask quickly if https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5962 is being looked at for a fix. It was marked trivial but I know a lot of combat players are really upset about this bug.
[12:56] Jonathan Yap: Jenna, the sim sends animation instructions to everyone's viewer
[12:57] Jenna Felton: but does the viewer know what script did that?
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: No, the instructions are at a more fundamental level
[12:57] Jenna Felton: if so, than the viewer has chance to revoke the animation permission once the kiss hud stoped it
[12:57] Jenna Felton: i see
[12:57] Jenna Felton: ok, thank you :)
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: Maybe Simon can pipe up, there might be a UUID sent with those instructions
[12:58] Simon Linden: I know Maestro was looking into that llDie() / collision problem ... I thought he had an easy work-around, but that would require re-coding objects
[12:59] Simon Linden: yeah I don't think there's any info about what is responsible for animations sent along
[12:59] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): Yeah. Theres lots of old legacy weapons using the spellfire system that can't be updated
[12:59] Jenna Felton: ok, thank you Simon and Jonathan
[13:00] Simon Linden: llDie() should probably do a little bit more that it current does to stop an object ... there's a brief period where it's lingering in the physics world and thus causes those events
[13:00] Simon Linden: but I'm sure changing that would break something else
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: objects depending on events after lldie()?
[13:01] Rex Cronon: is there something wrong with lldie?
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: llDie() apparently, isn't lethal enough, heh
[13:02] Simon Linden: it's the bug we're talking about, Rex ... it's a slightly slow removal at times
[13:02] Jonathan Yap: Do we need llDieFast() ? :P
[13:02] jira.phoenixviewer.com (whirly.fizzle): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5962 Rex
[13:02] Simon Linden: I need to go now but thanks everyone for coming today
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