Doc Team/2009-10-28

== List of Attendees ==
*
*Aargle Zymurgy
*Arawn Spitteler
*Daniel Voyager
*Ellla McMahon
*Endra Graves
*Jeremy Linden
*Kate Linden
*Roland Riddler
*Rosinante Vinson
*Sun Michalski
*hunnipie Beck
*s a
== Transcript ==
[13:01]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Few here? I guess Torley hasn't twaet any presence, yet
[13:01]	Jeremy Linden: 	No Torley or Jon again this week :-(
[13:01]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	hey, Jeremy
[13:01]	Daniel Voyager: 	hey :)
[13:02]	Roland Riddler: 	hi all
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	well, then I'll only stay 1/3 as long. :-D
[13:02]	Arawn Spitteler: 	At least we have a Jeremy. Kate?
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	just kidding... I only wanted to drop in for a minute to see what's up.
[13:02]	Arawn Spitteler: 	No Torley means coziness
[13:02]	Jeremy Linden: 	Heheh. Nothing special planned this week, but have you guys been to The Cornfield yet?
[13:02]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Torley Tweets and it's a free for all, with all making free.
[13:02]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	yup... Teagan got me there last night
[13:03]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	pretty cool.
[13:03]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Cornfield? I thought that a traditional home of the naughti
[13:03]	Jeremy Linden: 	And now the haunted as well!
[13:03]	s a 	haunt hunter from way back
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I was trying to think of fun tips and tricks to share here, but my stuff all seems to be programming oriented.
[13:04]	Jeremy Linden: 	Well, do you have any fun LSL tips or tricks?
[13:04]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Here's a question for the Gramarian. What's the past participle of the verb, to Tweet. I came up with something, but it was already taken
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden: 	Tweeted?
[13:05]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I came up with something for that, too.. but I got slapped.
[13:05]	Roland Riddler: 	well here i got a newbie questio...
[13:05]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Probably the same thing
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden: 	Go for it!
[13:05]	Roland Riddler: 	is there a way to resize linked prims?
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden: 	The whole set, or just one of the prims?
[13:05]	Roland Riddler: 	like i got linked prims but cant make them smaller?
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden: 	In both cases, yes.
[13:06]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Yes, but only if your script knows about them
[13:06]	Roland Riddler: 	the whole set
[13:06]	Arawn Spitteler: 	We'd like to see llGetPrimitiveParams, but it's not happened yet
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	you can resize linked primes, yes
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	*prims
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden: 	However, if even one of the prims has hit its minimum size, the entire object cannot scale down any farther.
[13:06]	Arawn Spitteler: 	You can't just llSetBoundingBox, though
[13:06]	Roland Riddler: 	ah okay
[13:06]	Roland Riddler: 	thx jeremy
[13:07]	Roland Riddler: 	that seems to be the problem
[13:07]	Jeremy Linden: 	No problem! I used to run into that issue all the time when building things.
[13:07]	Roland Riddler: 	i will just unlink the small ones then and resize the rest
[13:08]	Jeremy Linden: 	Does anyone have interesting stories to share about the wiki or the knowledge base this week?
[13:08]	Arawn Spitteler: 	WEB-814 has caused someone annoyance
[13:08]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	well, I have learned a lot about things you shoud and can't do with Japanese and Chinese text in SL
[13:09]	Daniel Voyager: 	hey Kate :)
[13:09]	Kate Linden: 	Hi :)
[13:09]	Arawn Spitteler: 	How do you access and look up the Alt-Char Set?
[13:09]	Roland Riddler: 	hiyas
[13:09]	Jeremy Linden: 	Heh. That sounds interesting Aargle. Does it have to do with how not everyone has those fonts installed?
[13:10]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	well, actually no. I filed one JIRA when I found out that the 24-character limit for buttons turned out to be a 24-byte limitation.
[13:10]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	10-letter Japanese and Chinese buttons will be told they are toolong.
[13:10]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	but....
[13:10]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	there is some wicked cool stuff you can do if you've got an outside database providing text for objects.
[13:11]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I promised CG I'd do a little writeup on methods and pitfalls.
[13:11]	Jeremy Linden: 	Cool.
[13:11]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	the whole process has a lot of dark alleys with muggers in them. :-)
[13:11]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	but if you get it right, the end results are VERY cool
[13:12]	Kate Linden: 	Do you have a JIRA link Aargle?
[13:12]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	hm... one sec
[13:12]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	it's fresh and I haven't had a chance to point it out to the Japanse/Chinese/Korean crowd.
[13:13]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	SVC-4963
[13:13]	Kate Linden: 	thanks!
[13:13]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	np
[13:13]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I'm actually amazed at the number of non-english speakers you find in a region.
[13:14]	Jeremy Linden: 	There's a lot to be said for on-the-fly translation, that's for sure!
[13:15]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	my own sim seems like a tower of babble some days.
[13:15]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I don't know that many people are pursuing the other languages, though.
[13:15]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	most developers I talk to aren't aware of llGetAgentLanguage. but it's been around 6 months or more now.
[13:16]	Arawn Spitteler: 	A lot of people should learn Chinese, but it's an art of Calligraphy, and should be learned mostly meat-side
[13:16]	 	
[13:16]	Jeremy Linden: 	Kate, are you breaking stuff?
[13:17]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	actually, Arawn, I got the nicest thing lately: it's a pad with one new chinese symbol to practice each day.
[13:17]	Kate Linden: 	No lol
[13:17]	Arawn Spitteler: 	All I've got, is a book on how to spell Heart
[13:18]	Arawn Spitteler: 	You've got to have Heart; all you really need is Heart...
[13:18]	Jeremy Linden: 	Anne and Nancy Wilson?
[13:19]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	so far, I've learned 一 二 三 and 四
[13:19]	Jeremy Linden: 	Heh. I see *** and *
[13:19]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	not very exciting, but more than I knew last week. :-)
[13:19]	Kate Linden: 	nice!
[13:19]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I see One, Two Three and a square like the upper right of this chat windwo
[13:19]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	yeah... that's 4
[13:20]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	in simplified chinese
[13:20]	Kate Linden: 	I just downloaded an iphone app to learn Italian. Just started lesson one.
[13:20]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	that sounds like fun.
[13:21]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Chinese should be learned Free Hand, so the seven mysteries can sing, but that would take a two way media stream.
[13:21]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	I'm getting frustrated with someof the language issues, but mostly as a personal thing, not technical.
[13:21]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Hi, Hunni.
[13:21]	Kate Linden: 	This is what I see: http://screencast.com/t/GuWUVN3DJKuJ
[13:21]	hunnipie Beck: 	hello
[13:21]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	that looks right, Kate.
[13:22]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	chinese symbols for 1,2, 3 and 4
[13:22]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Oh, on Events, is there anyplace more convenient that WEB-814, for the 768 limit to be documented? It's rather counter intuitive, and leaves people lost
[13:22]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	and speaking of all that, I have a persistent Japanese customer needing my help. I need to go. :-(
[13:23]	Jeremy Linden: 	Thanks for coming!
[13:23]	Aargle Zymurgy: 	thanks, Jeremy. I'll be back when I can stay longer.
[13:23]	Arawn Spitteler 	digresses on the number three: The number Three is particularly well auspiced, showing the plane of Heaven, above, the plane of Earth below, and the plane of Life, is the short one in the middle.
[13:24]	Jeremy Linden: 	So, life is short? :-)
[13:25]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Life is Good, then you die but, the truth of Reincarnation, is that Life is Hell, and it gets old quick
[13:25]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Hi Ellla
[13:26]	Kate Linden: 	We have a KB article about installing language fonts: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Installing_Language_Fonts
[13:26]	hunnipie Beck: 	would help if it said something about the 768 limit when start to put an event in , in the stuff u have too agree to befor putting an event in
[13:27]	Arawn Spitteler: 	We should add the Eureka Solution to the Wiki, but how to title?
[13:27]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Is there a wiki for Language_Fonts, that we're installing?
[13:28]	Kate Linden: 	hunnipie feel free to contribute to the Limits wiki page: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits
[13:28]	Arawn Spitteler: 	What is the name, for the unnecessary 768 limit? We can create a wiki for that, with the workabout
[13:29]	Arawn Spitteler: 	It's kind of a shock, to many rezzees, that we may have a say in Reality, so the Wiki is there for Shock Value
[13:29]	Kate Linden: 	Arawn the instructions on the wiki page for installing language fonts, install the lang packs that come with the operating system.
[13:30]	Arawn Spitteler: 	So, it'll be found, if someone asks about language?
[13:30]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I have't FireFox open, atm
[13:31]	hunnipie Beck: 	but why let people build up too 4096 m if they can not hold an event there with out having to put teleports in
[13:32]	Kate Linden: 	Well for instance, with Win XP, if you go to the Languages tab, you can check the box to install files for east asian languages.
[13:32]	Jeremy Linden: 	hunnipie, I imagine that's why this issue is reported as a bug.
[13:33]	hunnipie Beck: 	but there is no mention on the page that every one agrees too when posting an event
[13:33]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I think the question is why watch for events posted above 768. 4096 became the limit, when we upgraded to H4, but then we stumbled on an unneeded limit in Events
[13:33]	Arawn Spitteler: 	It should be there, but I don't think anybody's responsible for updating.
[13:34]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I think it was intended to prevent people setting the arrival above 1000000000 meters, but is the wrong place for that limit.
[13:35]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I read a Science Fiction Story, about a baby that was born in teleporter, and an accounting program wouldn't allow more people to rez, than went in.
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler: 	This is a similar error catch, somebody's unneeded forsight
[13:36]	Jeremy Linden: 	I would suggest bringing this bug to one of the JIRA triage office hours held by one of the engineering teams. Unfortunately, the documentation team doesn't have a lot of insight into why certain decisions were made on this.
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Or, such insight might not be politely recorded
[13:36]	Kate Linden: 	I have an open JIRA on this and will look into it further.
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Hi,m Endra
[13:37]	Endra Graves: 	pardon my very rude enterence
[13:37]	Jeremy Linden: 	It's ok, we're very informal here.
[13:38]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I've no idea, Why it hasn't been addressed, but that there's no team, in that part of the field. It's like having a super modern post office, with the most powerfull supersonic transport, and nobody to read a humble address
[13:38]	Arawn Spitteler: 	brb, must get dressed
[13:39]	hunnipie Beck: 	most people follow the instuctions on how to set an event on the web page so wich department rights that page
[13:40]	Ellla McMahon: 	The pJIRA re "cannot post event where land's landing point's Z is > 768" has an internal LL Dev number .. there might be some be some further info there
[13:40]	Jeremy Linden: 	Do you have a link to the page?
[13:40]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I don't think there's a department. Heierarchical failure. An Executive is the guy who gets things done, and a bossless workplace has nobody to attend the ignored
[13:41]	Ellla McMahon: 	the pJIRA link is http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-814
[13:42]	Jeremy Linden: 	Heh. Sorry Ellla, I meant does hunnipie have a link to the event posting page she's talking about.
[13:42]	Ellla McMahon: 	aah sorry
[13:42]	Jeremy Linden: 	No worries.
[13:42]	hunnipie Beck: 	yes hang on
[13:43]	hunnipie Beck: 	https://secure-web11.secondlife.com/my/community/events/tos.php?nextpage= /my/community/events/edit.php?lang=en-US
[13:44]	hunnipie Beck: 	it is the event posting rules page
[13:45]	Ellla McMahon: 	http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=4307
[13:45]	hunnipie Beck: 	no mention of that if u want to set an event your landing point needs to be below 768 mts
[13:46]	Kate Linden: 	Thanks hunnipie
[13:46]	hunnipie Beck: 	ty ella
[13:46]	hunnipie Beck: 	would be nice if was mention in the rules some were
[13:47]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Maybe wee should also have an Overseers to Abuse PAge, so channels of obligation can route the unhandled issue. Is there someone WEB-814's been assigned to?
[13:48]	Rosinante Vinson:	unassigned it says
[13:48]	Arawn Spitteler: 	It's getting old
[13:48]	hunnipie Beck: 	the 768 limit puts people off posting there events
[13:48]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Assign it to M Linden
[13:48]	Jeremy Linden: 	It's an interesting dilemma, actually. It's not really a rule, but it's a bug... a mistake in the programming. Filing it as a bug in JIRA is the right thing to do, and it should get some attention from our developers.
[13:49]	Rosinante Vinson:	If it had been a pregnancy it would have been born by now :)
[13:49]	Jeremy Linden: 	Depending on the species!
[13:49]	Endra Graves: 	lol
[13:49]	Rosinante Vinson:	oh, good point!
[13:49]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Are you shure it wouldn't have become a mother, by now?
[13:49]	Sun Michalski: 	hehehe
[13:49]	hunnipie Beck: 	but does it not need to say some thing in the rule too help those new too setting up events
[13:50]	Rosinante Vinson:	even before the bug is fixed, the text can be amended to make the z limit clear, no?
[13:50]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I think Torley's trying to think up something to deal with Event-Flooding, or he might go in
[13:50]	Kate Linden: 	I'll add a note to the KB article for now.
[13:51]	Arawn Spitteler: 	You can circumvent the 768 limit, but it's Kludgy
[13:51]	Kate Linden: 	We usually don't include bugs in our KB articles, but this would be a helpful mention.
[13:51]	Arawn Spitteler: 	I don't think it worked the first time for Eureka, either.
[13:51]	hunnipie Beck: 	most people do not go to the knowlege base too set an event though
[13:52]	Arawn Spitteler: 	A bug is just an undocumented Feature, and we'd like it to be a more temporary feature.
[13:52]	hunnipie Beck: 	they go stright to the page via there account
[13:52]	Arawn Spitteler: 	The Bug belongs in Jira, its name in Wiki, and its warning on the Events Page
[13:52]	Rosinante Vinson:	I know what you're trying to say hunni .. just mention it on the page people are using, for now
[13:52]	Arawn Spitteler: 	Who can edit that page?
[13:53]	Kate Linden: 	yes true hunnipie. However, if you were having trouble listing an event, a KB article could be helpful. Now you can search for them inworld also, via Search>All.
[13:53]	hunnipie Beck: 	i know , but would it not be simpler to put in on both
[13:53]	hunnipie Beck: 	the kb and the one most use
[13:54]	Kate Linden: 	I've notated our internal JIRA :) I can help by including info in the KB for now.
[13:54]	Rosinante Vinson:	It could be, but most people adding an event, as hunni says, may not be familiar with the KB and would give up and ask someone else to do it, or find an alternative. All they need is to know that the limit bug exists until such time as it is no longer causing a problem?
[13:55]	Jeremy Linden: 	The page on the website is a list of rules for posting events... there is no rule that says you're not allowed to post events above 768m, despite the fact that a bug makes it impossible. For instructions on how to post an event, people should be looking to the Knowledge Base.
[13:55]	Arawn Spitteler: 	If the events page had a link to the Jira, it might help
[13:55]	Rosinante Vinson:	good call Arawn
[13:56]	hunnipie Beck: 	yes a great call
[13:56]	Kate Linden: 	I have to take off for another meeting. Great seeing all of you this week!
[13:56]	Rosinante Vinson:	bye Kate :)
[13:56]	Sun Michalski: 	Bye Kate
[13:56]	hunnipie Beck: 	bye
[13:56]	Kate Linden: 	Bye :)
[13:56]	Arawn Spitteler: 	They're looking at the instructions on posting the events, as far as they know, unless we've had all events posters attending this hour.
[13:57]	Arawn Spitteler: 	The Event Posting Instructions Page might have a link to the Wiki, but I don't know anyone who can edit that.
 
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