Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-12-15

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on December 15th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Welcome to the last Server Beta User Group of the year
* MAESTRO's BIRTHDAY! :-o
=== Updates ===
* Release update from Coyot.
* NCW window is in effect now.
* Second Life RC KT progress
* "Second Life Server Channel"
** The promotion this week comes from LeTigre/Magnum. There are a lot of bug fixes in here. There are a LOT of bug fixes in here and a few new features.
* Bug Fixes
** llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms 
** Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages 
** Physics stalls every 20-30 seconds 
** ERROR: Failed to set physics shape type
** llSetLinkMedia do nothing 
** Bug in Control Event
** 	Temp on Rezzed objects get queued 
** 	Driving a vehicle over into a full region gives strange error message: You can't enter this region because the sebehavior is full 
** 	For group notices groupID is being sent in the AgentID field 
** 	llMinEventDelay Bug 
** 	Simulator fails to load notecard asset (Intan won't read config card)
** Avatars that do not have access to Adult regions will no longer see avatars on those regions from neighboring regions.
** Several simulator crash fixes.
** Several minor simulator memory leaks fixed.
** 	Poseball rezzing items are either not giving poseballs or rezzing balls in wrong positions
* New features
** New LSL function: key llTransferLindenDollars(key id, integer amount)
**: Attempt to transfer amount of L$ from the owner of the object to 'id'. Requires PERMISSION_DEBIT. Returns a key used in a matching transaction_result event for the success or failure of the transfer.
** New LSL event: transaction_result(key id, integer success, string data)
**: This event is triggered from an llTransfer* call (currently only llTransferLindenDollars). 
*** id: matches the return value of the llTransfer call and if the transaction was a success will match the 'transaction id' shown in transaction history on secondlife.com
*** success: TRUE if the transfer succeeded otherwise FALSE.
*** data: On successful transactions will contain a CSV of destination ID and amount transferred. In failure cases it will contain an error tag on failure.
** Error Tags for llTransferLindenDollars:
*** LINDENDOLLAR_ENTITYDOESNOTEXIST - The destination UUID is not a valid agent.
*** LINDENDOLLAR_INSUFFICIENTFUNDS - The source agent does not have enough L$ for the transfer
*** INVALID_AGENT - Destination agent is not a valid UUID
*** INVALID_AMOUNT - Amount is <= 0
*** THROTTLED - The scripted L$ throttle was hit for this object owner.
*** MISSING_PERMISSION_DEBIT - The script does not have debit permission
*** GROUP_OWNED - The object is group owned and thus can't give money
*** TRANSFERS_DISABLED - L$ transfers are disabled in the region
*** EXPIRED - The simulator timed out waiting for a response from the back-end service.
*** SERVICE_ERROR - There was an error connecting to the back-end service
** New LSL function: llGetParcelMusicURL()
*** Returns the music URL of the object's current parcel if the script owner also owns the parcel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.12.03.246118
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This project contains voice diagnostics updated to improve our ability to diagnose voice issues.
* This is also on LeTigre and Magnum
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.12.12.246583
* LeTigre RC Channel
* Same code as BlueSteel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.12.12.246583
* Magnum RC Channel
* Same code as BlueSteel
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.12.12.246583
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
* Christmas
* New Years
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for December 15th, 2011:
* [15:01] Oskar LindenOskar Linden taps the microphone
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: is this thing on?
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: no
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: :P
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: hmm
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [15:01] Coyot Linden: hi, Rex
* [15:01] Rickk Turbo: shoud it be?
* [15:01] Homeless: where's the feedback coming from then?
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: hi coyot
* [15:02] Rickk Turbo: i dont hear feedback
* [15:02] Maestro LindenMaestro Linden will attempt to only use chat bubbles for the whole meeting
* [15:02] Coyot Linden: my Pink Floyd on Pandora
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: we'll give a few more minutes for people to rez
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: somebody has a mike close to a magnet
* [15:02] Ardy Lay: Minutes? You still using UDP?
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: coyot's mic has been having issues lately
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: but I don't have voice on atm
* [15:03] Rickk Turbo: is that good or bad?
* [15:03] Rickk Turbo: :)
* [15:03] Jonathan Yap: Is the west coast office having a party tonight?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: a party?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: for what?
* [15:04] Jonathan Yap: Oz went to his x-mas party just now :)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: wasn't an LL party
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: They're celebrating my Awesomeness
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: or if it was I wasn't invited
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: and my humility
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: -_-
* [15:04] Rickk Turbo: any excuse to get drunk office party?
* [15:04] Coyot Linden: Isn't Oz not in West Coast?
* [15:04] Rickk Turbo: oh
* [15:04] Rickk Turbo: it's mestro's b'day
* [15:04] Rickk Turbo: :)
* [15:04] Jonathan Yap: Oz is in Cambridge
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: there you go!
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: it is Maestro's birthday!
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: someone can read an agenda
* [15:05] Rickk Turbo: i hope u brought cake into the office
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: woohoo
* [15:05] Rickk Turbo: :)
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: hippo birdie 2 ewe, Maestro!
* [15:05] Jonathan Yap: Happy b-day Meastro, and thank you for all the jira triage you do
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAESTRO!!!
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: Thanks guys!
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: he finally turned 21
* [15:05] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh, happy birthday.
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: ROFL
* [15:05] Rickk Turbo: so how old does that make u?
* [15:05] Lares Carter: Happy Birthday Maestro!
* [15:05] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden is dead in dog years
* [15:05] arton Rotaru: oh, than take my mesh vehicle as a b-day present maestro^^
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: you know me, 16/f/ca :)
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: haha
* [15:06] Maestro Linden: Lol, thanks Arton
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: happy birthday:)
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: Oskar Linden: HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO MAESTRO!!
* [15:06] Latif Khalifa: :D
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: ok then
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: Coyot why don't you update us on how the releases went this week
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: any more 'fun' ? :-)
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: pretty smooth
* [15:07] arton Rotaru: yeah, why don't you .p
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: for the releases proper
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: Agni got the new
* [15:07] arton Rotaru: thx for deploying Letigre!
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: goodness from the devvs
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: yw
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: the RCs all got code from Roxie
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: which will help us
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: debug some obscure voice issues
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: Benoc also continued to upgrade
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: sims to the new kernel
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: and this should be done
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: long before Newtonmas
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: how soon before all sims are on the new kernel?
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: there were some bumps
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: but we've got it down now
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: We are also going to do some restarts tomorrow
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: of the simhosts not on the new
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: then, since there are no deploys
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: kernel
* [15:09] Latif Khalifa: the grid status messages say dec 25
* [15:09] Coyot Linden: planned for the next two weeks
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: we are going to see if it is needed or not
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: will give us the stability needed
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: with a little luck, this new kernel
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: to not need the restarts
* [15:10] arton Rotaru: any performance metrics of the new kernel regions yet?
* [15:10] Coyot Linden: Latif: that's the deadline
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: I don't have anything to share arton
* [15:10] arton Rotaru: k
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: I'll try to get some graphs and stuff
* [15:11] Maestro Linden: Yes, the FPS on the new kernel looks slightly better
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: I have every faith that Benoc will finihsh before then
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: but might not be til the new year
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: EOF
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: other questions?
* [15:11] arton Rotaru: sim FPS?
* [15:11] Maestro LindenMaestro Linden saw some side-by-side graphs comparing the KT RC channel to the main channel, back when only KT had the new kernel
* [15:11] Maestro Linden: yeah, Sim FPS
* [15:11] Coyot Linden: ty maestro
* [15:11] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi wonders what version of the kernel it is.
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: as we slow down towards the end of the year we have fewer projects needing to go out. So we only have 1 project for all three RC's
* [15:11] arton Rotaru: cool
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: the grid should be pretty stable through the new year
* [15:12] Coyot Linden: *whinnnie*
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: *fingers crossed*
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: every time I say 'pretty stable' gets Coyot's mane all tingly
* [15:12] arton Rotaru: will we see maintanece restarts during the NCW
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: as long the new kernel isn't grid wide
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: the new kernel will be grid wide soon
* [15:13] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: What version of the kernel are you using? </geek mode>
* [15:13] Maestro Linden: I'm not sure what the ETA is for 100% new kernel, but maybe early next week?
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: DOS 3.1
* [15:13] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: ;)
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: I'm not sure f it is public info
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: might be DOS 3.2
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: 3.0.0
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: as far as I know
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: ^^^
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: is right
* [15:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Ah.
* [15:14] Latif Khalifa: dos 3.31 ftw :P
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: Anderw shares that info^^
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: it's this new kernel that coyot, maestro and I wrote while drunk the other night
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: it's great
* [15:14] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: andrew can. I've not been told I can
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: so go ask him then
* [15:14] Latif Khalifa: andrew said 3.x something
* [15:15] Latif Khalifa: forgot the exact number
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: mmm, drunken kernels make the best popcorn
* [15:15] arton Rotaru: it's in Andrews chatlog somewhere
* [15:17] Latif Khalifa: i don't really care about the exact kernel version ;)
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: maestro, any upcoming code on ADITI worth nothing?
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: Oh, there's another maint-server
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: woohoo
* [15:18] Homeless: aditi code worth nothing?
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: ?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: noting
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: I have dyslexia :-p
* [15:18] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:18] Homeless: typonese disease strikes again
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: .. hmm it just has minor bugfixes so far. Nothing really exciting
* [15:18] Rickk Turbo: any news on the sandbox?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: THE sandbox?
* [15:19] Homeless: the sandbox will have actual sand in it
* [15:19] Ardy Lay: The monthly newsletter that stopped being monthly?
* [15:19] Rex Cronon: the sand might kill havok;)
* [15:19] arton Rotaru: just don't tell Falcon^^
* [15:20] Ardy Lay: Not if it is Havok Sand.
* [15:20] Homeless: havok sand is probably similar to quicksand
* [15:20] Ardy Lay: Hehe
* [15:20] arton Rotaru: it's called Lagsand
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: Laglandia
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: these end of the year meetings aren't too exciting.
* [15:22] Rex Cronon: a 128x128 grid filled with sand is not that much to play with
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: we've really got not too much to tell you about
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: 2 codebases on the grid until next year
* [15:22] Homeless: I have a question
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: please
* [15:23] arton Rotaru: I guess Rickk meant the RC channel sandboxes on Aditi, any progress on that?
* [15:23] Homeless: I've been working with set memorylimit... wyat is the smallest amount of memory a mono script can be set to?
* [15:23] Homeless: *what
* [15:23] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 4KiB I think.
* [15:23] Rickk Turbo: KiB?
* [15:23] Ardy Lay: Cannot be set below what it is already using.
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: we can just make the rest of this meeting a question answer kind of thing
* [15:23] Coyot Linden: Kittens in Black
* [15:23] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Kibibyte = 4096 bytes.
* [15:23] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Erm, 4 kibibytes*
* [15:24] Pauline Darkfury: Something close to 4kB
* [15:24] Latif Khalifa: kiki byte :P
* [15:24] Homeless: I'll have to experiment... lower it until it crashes. It's these little scripts that annoy me like one liners setting hover text
* [15:24] Maestro Linden: heh and that script just has default{ state_entry(){llSetMemoryLimit(4096);}} ? :P
* [15:24] Pauline Darkfury: You won't get much done in 4kB though
* [15:24] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: My ears are 5KiB I think.
* [15:24] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi checks.
* [15:24] Pauline Darkfury: Try llSetMemoryLimit(llGetMemoryUsage()+512) for scripts which don't really need much stack
* [15:25] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, one ear twitch script is 5KiB.
* [15:25] Latif Khalifa: Pauline, i have plenty of scripts that do just on touch open door sort of thing. I bet that can do it in 4K
* [15:25] Coyot Linden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte
* [15:25] Homeless: I'll try that Pauline. Thanks
* [15:25] Ardy Lay: Memory is in 4KB chunks or pages, right?
* [15:26] Ardy Lay: Maybe I just assume it is from something Babbage said long ago.
* [15:26] Rickk Turbo: wt
* [15:26] Coyot Linden: Hey, who invited Lil?
* [15:26] Homeless: I'm able to use 1k chunks
* [15:26] Pauline Darkfury: I bet you may be surprised at just how little 4kB can achieve, if you've not tried it before ;)
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: uh oh
* [15:26] Rickk Turbo: wtf is that
* [15:26] arton Rotaru: LOL Moo's Snowmans^^
* [15:26] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:26] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Sorry, I'm used to KiB/MiB/GiB from using Linux. xP
* [15:27] arton Rotaru: how about this bug, the snowman showed?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: oh maestro
* [15:27] Latif Khalifa: you probably celebreted new millenium in 2001 too ;)
* [15:27] Rickk TurboRickk Turbo mutes his speakers
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: haha sorry about the noise
* [15:27] Kadah Coba: Why is maestro griefing?
* [15:27] Kadah Coba: lol
* [15:27] Rickk Turbo: god sounds like he's having #2
* [15:27] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:27] arton Rotaru: because he can :p
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: oh the huge manatee!
* [15:28] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Latif - didn't even know Linux existed back then. :p
* [15:28] Rickk Turbo: i hope that's not a recording of u on mic
* [15:28] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:28] Rickk Turbo: that's quite disturbing
* [15:28] Kadah Coba: Juicy.
* [15:28] Coyot Linden: oh the hue manatee!
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it is his birthday
* [15:28] Pauline Darkfury: lol
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: let him have a little fun
* [15:28] Latif Khalifa: I made my company switch from sgi irix to linux 1999 because I used FUD about y2k bug :P
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: he's our winter baby
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:29] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 'It's my party and I'll do what I want.'?
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: y2k "bug" was a gold mine for us techies ;)
* [15:29] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Heh.
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: world will end
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: give us money
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: irix worked just as well in year 2000, but the management didn't know
* [15:29] Ardy Lay: 2038?
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: y2k38
* [15:30] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 2038 is where 32-bit breaks, doesn't it? Or something like that...
* [15:30] Latif Khalifa: the reason we switched to linux is that irix is trully horrible to develop on. the compiler and make are all non standard and everything watns gcc and gmake to compile
* [15:30] Coyot Linden: a cobol programmer friend of mine passed away just before 2000, we said he took the easy way out. :)
* [15:30] Ardy Lay: Jiffy runs out of bits?
* [15:30] Pauline Darkfury: Jan or Feb 2038, yes
* [15:30] Kadah Coba: Yeah, I think the old unix timestamp overflows sometime in 2038
* [15:30] Pauline Darkfury: But, the breakage has already started if you need to represent future dates
* [15:31] arton Rotaru: hmmm, I like your sense of humor coyot :p
* [15:31] Pauline Darkfury: e.g. my driving licence can't use time_t for its expiry
* [15:31] arton Rotaru: but I don't laugh right now ^^
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: try being born on leap year day :-(
* [15:31] Latif KhalifaLatif Khalifa wrote web e-commerca apps in c++ as modules for netscape fastrack http server in the late 1990s on sgi irix boxes. go figure lol
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: most computer systems put my birthday on 3/1 or 2/28
* [15:31] Jonathan Yap: A modern OS should use 64 bit time, don't get me going on that hot topic
* [15:31] Kadah Coba: I don't think anything currently running today will be still imporant over 20 years from now, so I thing we're good
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: that's what they say kadah...
* [15:32] Latif Khalifa: kadah, that's what all the cobol programmers said in the 1970s lol
* [15:32] Pauline Darkfury: I'm fairly sure people said something like that in 1979…
* [15:32] Kadah CobaKadah Coba bets his old just is still running that AS/400
* [15:32] Rex Cronon: u mean siri will be dead by then:)
* [15:32] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: >.>
* [15:32] Kadah Coba: s/just/job
* [15:33] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Getting crowded in here.
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: business hold on to systems long after they should
* [15:34] Ardy Lay: If it's getting the job done ...
* [15:34] Kadah Coba: I make sure my old server are "failing" after 6 years.
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: trudat
* [15:34] Kadah Coba: servers*
* [15:34] Pauline Darkfury: Mmm, like the ancient (now) original Class 5s :p
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:34] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Aren't the sims running on an old'ish Debian? :p
* [15:34] Homeless: how old are the oldest servers on the grid?
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: I have told you this many times "Officially Linden Lab has no Class"
* [15:35] Latif Khalifa: it does scripts better than class 7s ;)
* [15:35] Rickk Turbo: with tape drives?
* [15:35] Rickk Turbo: ;)
* [15:35] Pauline Darkfury: 7s now run at the same speed as 5s (faster)
* [15:35] Liisa Runo: rounding error server is 80286
* [15:35] Pauline Darkfury: The October kernel fixed SVC-5040, pretty much
* [15:35] Coyot Linden: Class 7s are the new Class 5s :P
* [15:35] Latif Khalifa: Pauline, that got imprved with the kernel
* [15:36] Latif Khalifa: ah i see
* [15:36] Pauline Darkfury: Both will do 6000 nicely behaved scripts without showing slowdown
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: Where is the jira-helper?
* [15:36] Pauline Darkfury: And, they will actually do more than 6000 sometimes
* [15:36] TankMaster Finesmith: wait, take drives? you mean they upgraded from punch cards?
* [15:36] TankMaster Finesmith: tape*
* [15:36] Pauline Darkfury: Highest observed perf is about 11-12k scripts without slowdown
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: test vwr-8192
* [15:36] Flame of Jira: [#VWR-8192] Add the color settings in "Text Chat" to colors_base.xml so they can be set in skins https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8192
* [15:36] Coyot Linden: Jonathan:
* [15:37] Coyot Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040
* [15:37] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5040] Script performance dropped on regions deployed on class 7 hardware since rolling restart (12 nov 2009) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040
* [15:37] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden prefers hamburger helper
* [15:37] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 80286 - hm, synthesizer on my desk has an Intel P8098.
* [15:38] Rickk TurboRickk Turbo looks at his C64
* [15:38] Kadah Coba: Whats class 7 anyway?
* [15:38] Ardy Lay: 7xx
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: 8 core xeon with 24gb ram
* [15:38] Pauline Darkfury: dual Quad Xeons (rather than single)
* [15:38] Rickk Turbo: that had the best 8bit synth ever :)
* [15:38] Kadah Coba: 2 gerbils instead of 1?
* [15:38] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
* [15:38] Coyot Linden: with duct tape
* [15:38] Kadah Coba: And a spare wheel
* [15:38] Latif Khalifa: class 5 is only 4gb for 4 sims which is cutting it close memory wise
* [15:38] Homeless: class 8 will use rabbits
* [15:39] arton Rotaru: any news on this ? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7378?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#issue-tabs
* [15:39] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7378] Door script that doesn't set phantom makes linked meshes go phantom. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7378
* [15:39] Kadah Coba: So the fix for SVC-5040 was to put a fresh carrot in?
* [15:39] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-5040] Script performance dropped on regions deployed on class 7 hardware since rolling restart (12 nov 2009) https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040
* [15:39] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, memory is the original main issue on the 5s
* [15:39] Kadah Coba: Ram is cheaper that cookies now
* [15:39] Pauline Darkfury: Hopefully now that 7s perform nicely, the oldest 5s might get replaced, hint hint…
* [15:39] Jonathan Yap: I thought all the 5s had been retired
* [15:40] Rex Cronon: u guys should have live webcam of your server racks;)
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: i think that 5s update to 8gb would solve a lot of lag problems
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: 4s got retired
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: Jonathan, 5s are most of the grid
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: 5s are still over half the grid, if memory serves
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: almost all private estates are on 5s
* [15:40] Pauline Darkfury: Mainland is nearly all 7s though
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: mainland is only 6000 regions out of 30000
* [15:40] Jonathan Yap: ah ok, so it was those legacy regions paying less/month that got moved from 4s to 5s about a year ago I was thinking about
* [15:40] Kadah Coba: A live video feed of a server rack is indistinguishable from a static picture.
* [15:41] Latif Khalifa: except for the blinking lights ;)
* [15:41] TankMaster Finesmith: memory is cheep these days
* [15:41] Homeless: and the smoke rising..
* [15:41] Rex Cronon: things might get lively when some people put on all their attachemnts:)
* [15:41] Kadah Coba: Whats my region running on? Quentulus Quazgar
* [15:41] Pauline Darkfury: Yeah, these days, there's much less excuse for memory shortage on the sims
* [15:42] Pauline Darkfury: (unless we get a bad roll and it's leaky)
* [15:42] Homeless: the area of the mainland I'm on doesn't have any memory problems... half the land is abandoned
* [15:43] Ardy Lay: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/51184/We+know+the+truth.jpg
* [15:43] Kadah Coba: That picture is shopped
* [15:43] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
* [15:43] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:43] Kadah Coba: They use much larger hammers than that.
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: meroo's in the code
* [15:44] Ardy Lay: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/attachment/51473/CaptionThis.jpg
* [15:45] Kadah Coba: All of those were good
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: nice
* [15:45] Ardy Lay: Those are from SVC-7031
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: guys I've got nothing left for this meeting. if you want to cut it short we can. or we can hang out for 15 more minutes and chat
* [15:45] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7031] Chat Lag is broken! https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7031
* [15:46] Rickk Turbo: broken
* [15:46] Rickk Turbo: is
* [15:46] Rickk Turbo: chat
* [15:46] Pauline Darkfury: So, thing to mention here while there's time. The recent Havok upgrade might have accidentally included "randomly_orbit_on_unsit = TRUE;"
* [15:46] Rickk Turbo: ?
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: or we can make a cake for Maestro
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: that got fixed. chat lag is back
* [15:46] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: it's new chat lag
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: SVC-7031 should be closed as fixed
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: we increased the capacity of the chat servers by quite a lot
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: everyone just started chatting more
* [15:46] Kadah Coba: Do it again, lol
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: will this be addressed some day? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7378?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#issue-tabs
* [15:47] Flame of Jira: [#SVC-7378] Door script that doesn't set phantom makes linked meshes go phantom. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7378
* [15:47] Rickk Turbo: lag i can understand but why does lines echo in the wrong order?
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: I don't know arton
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: so i we shut up the chat will work?
* [15:47] Latif Khalifa: Microsoft has just switched their live messanger to xmpp
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: if we*
* [15:47] Pauline Darkfury: packet 1 gets lost, packet 2 gets through, packet 1 gets reset, that's your re-ordering
* [15:47] Pauline Darkfury: *resent
* [15:48] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi enjoys using Pidgin.
* [15:48] Rickk Turbo: im sure there's a better way
* [15:48] Ardy Lay: Packets are getting lost? That's a network engineering problem. :-)
* [15:48] Kadah Coba: All large xmpp deployments are millions of one-to-one sessions. SL is lots of one-to-many sessions.
* [15:49] Rickk Turbo: i never had this problem on IRC
* [15:49] Rickk Turbo: i dont see why SL should be any different
* [15:49] Pauline Darkfury: Yup, XMPP scales to HUGE, but in a different way
* [15:49] Coyot LindenCoyot Linden scales to fish
* [15:50] Liisa Runo: (offtopic: look south to see llCastRay image of this meeting ^^ )
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: SL is very different than IRC
* [15:50] Latif Khalifa: oskar, you keep saying that
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: it is
* [15:50] Latif Khalifa: group chat is exactly the same as irc
* [15:50] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi still uses IRC.
* [15:50] Coyot Linden: no it is not
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: when is the last time you were on an IRC server that had 80,000 people talking about breeding horses?
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: oskar BS
* [15:51] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Have you ever been in the ubuntu help channels?
* [15:51] Coyot Linden: s/breeding/... oh nvm
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: when was the last time SL had 80k online users?
* [15:51] Rickk Turbo: horses?
* [15:51] Rickk Turbo: lol
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: battle: round 2- box
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: and if every online user was in the same group then your argument would not be pure BS
* [15:51] Liisa Runo: when was the last time all 50 people logged in were in the same group chat?
* [15:51] Coyot Linden: Latif, a large difference between IRC and SL is that IRC doesn't need to track location
* [15:51] Liisa Runo: all 50K ppl*
* [15:52] Coyot Linden: the routing algorithms are completely different
* [15:52] Pauline Darkfury: One thing we do need is more than 42 groups
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: Coyot, that's a problem if you don't change sl group chat so that the viewer talks to chat servers directly
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: Coyoy, part of fixing the problem is fixing the architecture which requires sim to be a proxy
* [15:52] Rex Cronon: i wonder. is there any group in sl where 1000 people r talkint at the same tims?
* [15:52] Homeless: last time SL had 80k online was back in the days of the camping bots
* [15:52] Rex Cronon: where over 1000(
* [15:52] Coyot Linden: Actually, as is is a requirement due to local chat
* [15:52] Rex Cronon: 1000*
* [15:53] Pauline Darkfury: I'd bet there's a few with over 1000 in the chat session
* [15:53] TankMaster Finesmith: irc doesn't have support for voice chat, for one instance
* [15:53] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: I've only seen up to 100 in the Furnation Community group out of the 2,500 we have.
* [15:53] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: And chat lag has plagued that group for years.
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: Coyot, no it's not. Group chat can go a different route. It's toatally unrelated to local chat
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: xmpp project at LL had actially implemented it like that without any issues
* [15:53] Pauline Darkfury: yeah, there's no future reason why group chat needs to be tied to local chat
* [15:53] TankMaster Finesmith: also, large IRC networks probably have more servers than LL is using
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: the lag isn't caused by number of people in a specific group. it's caused by how many people are chatting in all groups on that util node
* [15:53] Coyot Linden: and why do you think it isn't like that now?
* [15:54] TankMaster Finesmith: and when was the last time you had a netsplit in SL? :P
* [15:54] Kadah Coba: "a large difference between IRC and SL is that IRC doesn't need to track location" Does "doing it wrong" apply here. Group chat doesn't need to be location aware, it would have been nice if it was a seperatly connected service from the start instead of being routed through the sim
* [15:54] Coyot Linden: if XMPP is so wonderful?
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: Coyot, my guess: clueless linden execs who killed the project prematurelly
* [15:54] Coyot Linden: wrong
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: Latif has lots of guesses
* [15:54] Pauline Darkfury: group chat does need to page people when the chat session starts
* [15:54] Coyot Linden: but I can't really divulge
* [15:54] Coyot Linden: NDA time
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: Coyot, you just made 4 BS assertions so your credibility is low
* [15:54] Pauline Darkfury: That's going to need some way to find the client sessions
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: alright we're done with this conversation
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: just stop
* [15:55] TankMaster Finesmith: ^
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: Happy holidays
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: it's not constructive
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: of course not lol
* [15:55] Kadah Coba: You need more cats
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: happy olidays to u too maestro:)
* [15:55] TankMaster FinesmithTankMaster Finesmith agrees with kadah
* [15:55] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi is a ringtail cat but not a cat.
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: holidays*
* [15:56] arton Rotaru: is there a meeting next week?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: I don't think we'll have anything to discuss next week
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: I won't be around
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: it's a slow month and we're in a NCW
* [15:56] TankMaster Finesmith: can we just have a party here then?
* [15:56] arton Rotaru: okidoki, so happy xmas everybody
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: let's just call this the last meeting til the new year
* [15:56] Pauline Darkfury: Well, happy birthday, Maestro
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: if you guys want to meet here and party feel free
* [15:57] TankMaster Finesmith: ㋡
* [15:57] Pauline Darkfury: Happy holidays, Lindens, and everyone else
* [15:57] Kadah Coba: Lets talk next week on how were gonna break everything in January :3
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: Happy Holidays to all of you as well
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: happy holiday to all:)
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: see you all in the new year
* [15:57] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Happy holidays.
* [15:57] TankMaster Finesmith: merry Christmas everyone ㋡
* [15:57] Rex Cronon: have fun and make the grid run:)
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: bye :)
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: and do't break sexbeds .p
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: See you next year!
* [15:58] Rickk Turbo: and stay off the sheep
* [15:58] Rickk Turbo: :)
* [15:58] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: That needs to be pointed to Kelly of course. ;)
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: baaaa
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: bye all
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: l8r)
* [16:00] Kelly Linden: :)
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: it;s Kelly!
* [16:00] Pauline Darkfury: Take care all, have fun :)