Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2013.08.06

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2013.07.30	Next 2013.08.13
== List of Speakers ==
Andrew Linden 	ANSI Soderstrom 	Baker Linden
bob Iwashi 	Kallista Destiny	Kennylex Luckless
Kitto Flora 	Kopilo Hallard 	Lucia Nightfire
MartinRJ 	Nalates Urriah 	Petr Topaz
Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Sniper Siemens 	Talarus Luan 	TankMaster Finesmith
Tillie Ariantho	Whirly Fizzle 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:00] Kennylex Luckless: Hia Andrew
[12:00] MartinRJ: hello
[12:00] Simon Linden: Hi everyone
[12:00] Rex Cronon: hi simon, andrew
[12:00] Kopilo Hallard: rawr
[12:00] Andrew Linden: Hello
[12:00] Sniper Siemens: hi
[12:00] bob Iwashi: ayup
[12:00] Meeter: Welcome to the Server User Group
[12:01] Kennylex Luckless: Baker is missing, file a JIRA.
[12:01] Andrew Linden: Simon, how about you start with release news.
[12:02] Simon Linden: ok ...
[12:02] Rex Cronon: if u r late or can't stay go here to folow thig group meeting live: http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:02] Simon Linden: well, the release news is pretty skimpy this week
[12:02] Simon Linden: We didn't update the main channel today
[12:02] Simon Linden: Tomorrow the BlueSteel RC regions will get a new maintenance update
[12:03] Simon Linden: LeTigre and Magnum will remain the same Server Side Appearance code
[12:03] Simon Linden: The forum post is here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2013-08-05/td-p/2123527
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: I have question about two changes on BS, lol
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: as they look pretty significant
[12:04] Simon Linden: ok, 1 minute, Lucy
[12:04] Whirly Fizzle: Id like to know when we can get our hands on a viewer that lets us test the VWR-13228 fix :D
[12:05] Andrew Linden: What was that bug that people wanted to test last week on aditi? Lucia in particular wanted to test it. Is it going to be on the update fo BS?
[12:05] Qie Niangao: (and what the fix actually does)
[12:05] Simon Linden: There's one minor LSL fix in the new code ... the position of listen() scripts will be at the prim location now, not the root, EXCEPT for attachments, which always listen at the AV position
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: or if there is a viewer change, which was part of my question
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: the listen issue was fixed
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: I already confirmed on aditi
[12:05] Simon Linden: yes, thanks for checking that Lucy
[12:06] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3500
[12:06] Simon Linden: Whirly - that viewer is in internal QA now, but I don't have a guess when it's coming out. It has a lot of bug fixes in it, going back for months of work
[12:06] Whirly Fizzle: Okay ty
[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: what was done server side in regard to that fix?
[12:06] Kennylex Luckless: wbb
[12:07] Simon Linden: 3500 was fixed for this release - listen() in attachments works from the AV position
[12:07] Talarus Luan: Can't go anywhere without getting squashed by an inflatable Linden puppet. :P
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: is the fix mainly allowing the person beign animated data on who is animating them? or is it server side revoking to any degree?
[12:08] Simon Linden: The animations permissions are revoked in the region, but not on your own attachments or HUDs
[12:08] Talarus Luan: The wha?
[12:08] Qie Niangao: ? revoked how?
[12:08] Whirly Fizzle: Oh so everything on the regions you're in can be revoked? You can't pick & choose what?
[12:09] Simon Linden: uh, messages and new code :)
[12:09] Whirly Fizzle: Or see who has your anim perms?
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: how is it revoked? Does teh person begin animated have to explicitly ask that those perms be revoked first? or are their evaled criteria
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: *there...ugh typing
[12:10] Simon Linden: In that not-yet-released viewer, if you pick "Stop Animating Me", your animation permissions will be revoked from regular objects in the region. By that, I mean anything that's not attached or a HUD
[12:10] Qie Niangao: oh, animation permissions only, and only in the region. that's cool.
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: so perms containers/grabbers/stealers can still operate?
[12:10] Talarus Luan: k. That doesn't affect the perms on stored objects though, correct?
[12:10] Simon Linden: yes, just the two flavors of animations perms ... regular animations and the new override
[12:11] bob Iwashi: would that eb a cure for the soulseize?
[12:11] Simon Linden: That is correct, Talarus
[12:11] bob Iwashi: be*
[12:11] Talarus Luan: Does it revoke them on a rezzed/attached object which is subsequently taken back into inv?
[12:11] Andrew Linden: Yeah... I was just thinking about that...
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: I was just wondering if there was some kind of automation or change to usage behaviour.
[12:12] Talarus Luan: So that when it is rezzed again, it no longer has perms?
[12:12] Simon Linden: If the object was rezzed, it's revoked and then taken back, it will be stored in a revoked state
[12:12] Talarus Luan: Coo
[12:12] Rex Cronon: so somebody can keep rezzing objects that have your perms and keep on animation u, while u r stuck trying to stop each new object from animating u:(
[12:12] Talarus Luan: So, to use things like soul capture would necessitate copying the objects while stored and throwing away "revoked" ones.
[12:12] Whirly Fizzle: Oh hmm so if someone else is wearing an object as an attachment that holds your anim perms, you can't revoke that?
[12:13] bob Iwashi: ie the soul seize
[12:13] Simon Linden: no, those get revoked, Whirly
[12:13] Whirly Fizzle: Okay cool
[12:13] Andrew Linden: But the revoke only happens at the moment it is invoked, right? so if the object was rezzed after the invoke event then it would have animation permissions, right?
[12:13] Simon Linden: only your own attachments and HUDs ... it messes with your normal AOs or dancing shoes too much :)
[12:13] Talarus Luan: While not a complete solution, it might make it more work-intensive, which will deter many of the lazy griefers.
[12:14] Rex Cronon: they can be as lazy as they want. the got scripts to work for them
[12:14] Qie Niangao: Do permissions get copied when an inventory object is copied? I'd think not, but... dunno.
[12:14] MartinRJ: I think it's a great start.
[12:14] Talarus Luan: Scipts can't copy inv :)
[12:14] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, sounds good :)
[12:14] Talarus Luan: yes, they get copied
[12:14] Talarus Luan: Script state is copied in inv copies.
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: they get copied if you're making a copy of an inv object, not in-world
[12:15] Kallista Destiny: because they are not acessable until rezzed
[12:15] Andrew Linden: If an inv item is copied then the full state of the object is copied... the new inv item just points to the original asset.
[12:15] Qie Niangao: okay, so... manually, a griefer could cons up a whole inventory full of permission-rich objects, and rez them one at a time, so... okay, yeah, labor intensive.
[12:15] Andrew Linden: However, some obj state changes can happen on rez... permission bits might be changed for example.
[12:16] Rex Cronon: qie there r viewrs that can do it
[12:16] Talarus Luan: Though I guess you wouldn't have to copy in inv if you are rezzing, only if you are attaching/detaching.
[12:16] Qie Niangao: Tal: good point.
[12:16] Qie Niangao: but yeah, a good start, for sure.
[12:17] Talarus Luan: Still.. occasional "Stop Animating Me" whenever you see yourself start to do something you don't want to do will put an end to most of their fun.
[12:17] Rex Cronon: simon can we get a lsl function that stops all those aniations:)
[12:17] Talarus Luan: One click for you, lots of clicks/rezzes for them
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: What would happen if someone grabs your permissions and immediately detaches the object. Then they come back, wear the object, let it animate you and detach immediately.
[12:17] Rex Cronon: animations*
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: well, we'll see where the change's strengths and weaknesses lie when its rolled out
[12:18] Simon Linden: It's a step in the right direction ... it stops that soul-seize object, for example. Yes, they can re-ask for perms or rez a saved one, but blocking that is just a few clicks again
[12:18] Rex Cronon: talarus there r viewers that can do that automatically
[12:18] Talarus Luan: I am all for making it more expensive for the grief mode than for the remedy.
[12:18] Simon Linden: Whirly - the perms would get revoked whenever you did "Stop Animating Me". It doesn't matter if it's attached to someone else nor not
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh okay ty
[12:19] Kitto Flora: Is 'World/Stop Animating My Avatar' ineffective?
[12:19] Simon Linden: it has to be in-world, however
[12:20] Talarus Luan: Would be interesting to turn perms into caps. Then you could revoke the cap, and any copies would also stop working. :P
[12:20] Simon Linden: Kitto - currently it stops your viewer from playing animations on your avatar. That's all it does
[12:20] bob Iwashi: it's good news - we do see a fair fwe noobs getting hit with teh soul seize at the hubs
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: the main weakness I see is that when perms are revoked, the animator can copy the inv object if its attached, which may become the new standard, heh
[12:20] bob Iwashi: so, me likey
[12:20] Simon Linden: They have to take a copy before it's revoked, but that will be possible
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: but taht is a bunch of work, only the determined and/or griefer would deal with it
[12:20] Whirly Fizzle: Hmm so what I said then, wouldnt revoke the perms I guess because the object isn't inworld anymore?
[12:20] Rex Cronon: simon. only my viewer. so everybody else can see me still being animated?
[12:21] Simon Linden: Yes Rex
[12:21] Rex Cronon: :(
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: it deals with most use/occurrences cases, so its good
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah
[12:22] Whirly Fizzle: There will be lots of griffer HUD updates lol
[12:22] Rex Cronon: it is useless:(
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: the onyl updates will be operation SOP
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: "take into inventory, make a copy, then use only your copies in fear of revoking
[12:23] Simon Linden: I _believe_ "Stop Animating Me" was originally made to just reset your AV back to a basic animating state, and not designed to deal with the whole griefing or subsequent animation starts
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: If perms were revoked on take to inventory, this would break too much legit content?
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: or worse, "put into a rezzer" for revoke detect and rerez"
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: yes I can predict that one too
[12:23] Rex Cronon: u guys have never seen somebody forced to animate grosss sex acts? what good is if u no longer see yourself if everybody else can see u doing it?
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: wha
[12:25] Andrew Linden: Simon, how does the "Stop Animating Me" thing triggered and communicated? It is completely viewer-side?
[12:25] Talarus Luan: That's not what is being talked about Rex.
[12:25] Rex Cronon: did i missunderstood?
[12:25] Talarus Luan: That's the current viewer-side Stop Animating My Avatar function. The new one revokes and stops it server-side, so everyone else will stop seeing it too
[12:25] Simon Linden: One sec .. I'm checking something
[12:25] Rex Cronon: oh. ok
[12:26] Andrew Linden: Oh I think I see. The "Stop Animating Me" thing has been around for a while and is viewer-side only.
[12:26] Talarus Luan: yes
[12:26] Talarus Luan: It just clears the local animation stack
[12:26] Simon Linden: ok ... so currently "Stop Animating Me" also sends ANIM_REQUEST_STOP messages to the sim ... so that should tell everyone else as well that you've stopped. It's not just your viewer
[12:26] Andrew Linden: There is some new server-side functionality that will search and destroy animation permissions in the region (except worn attachments).
[12:26] Simon Linden: It does a little more than I thought
[12:26] Petr Topaz: Treads lightly on the minefield
[12:27] Qie Niangao: good. I *thought* it already did that.
[12:27] Nalates Urriah: Andrew, but that doesn't require a viewer side mod. Right?
[12:27] Baker Linden: Yes Simon, 'Stop Animating Me' was put in to get you out of a stuck state. For example, if you're sitting and go to another region, you'll be stuck sitting without the chair. Stop animating me will bring you back to normal, but it doesn't always work with AO's if you've worn something (for example, the dinosaur AO won't get reset)
[12:28] Baker Linden: Aura implemented it
[12:28] Simon Linden: Now, the new not-yet-released code, will send a RevokePermissions message to the sim, and SCRIPT_PERMISSIONS_TRIGGER_ANIMATIONS and SCRIPT_PERMISSIONS_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS will get revoked
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: I still say "combat HUD" creators/griefers will change the perms collecting SOP to deter the fix, heh
[12:29] Andrew Linden: SOP = ?
[12:29] Qie Niangao is eager to understand how / if any of this interacts with eXperience Permissions keys. Someday.
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: with one of teh two means I mentioned
[12:29] Talarus Luan: Ah OK, I thought you were talking about a different Stop Animating My Avatar menu option on the World menu (which I can't find).
[12:29] Nalates Urriah: std operating proceedure... = SOP
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: SOP = Standard Operating Procedure
[12:29] Talarus Luan: The Stop Animating Me is on Me->Movement
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: SOP referring to how perms are typically collected in SL, heh
[12:30] Simon Linden: New to the simulator is supporting the RevokePermissions message in a way for it to do what I described
[12:30] Nalates Urriah: But, this new revoke permissions is server side automatic? Or it requires some trigger viewer side?
[12:30] Talarus Luan: Well, you have to sit on something to get hit without perm dialog coming up, otherwise, you just decline unless you know where it is coming from.
[12:30] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is half over
[12:31] Simon Linden: It needs a new viewer that's not out yet, Nal
[12:31] Nalates Urriah: But, does it have to have a new user action or button to trigger?
[12:31] Simon Linden whispers: No, just pick "Stop Animating Me"
[12:31] Simon Linden: No, just pick "Stop Animating Me"
[12:31] Nalates Urriah: :)
[12:31] Talarus Luan: Lazy shifter. :P
[12:31] Simon Linden: right :)
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: ok, what about this change?: "Region should block rezzing and entering during final time before a shutdown"
[12:32] Talarus Luan: I do it all the time :P
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: my worry there is admin locked out of a sim that w/i the 5 minutes
[12:32] Simon Linden: ah, that one -- during a scheduled restart, like our weekly ones or something a region owner invokes, you can't enter the region in the last minute
[12:32] Simon Linden: Estate managers can
[12:32] TankMaster Finesmith: it could be set up that region and pracle owners can still enter it
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: Arnt all avies supposed to get disconnected before save state & shutdown actually begins?
[12:33] Simon Linden: It will also block region object entry during that minute
[12:33] Talarus Luan: Losing things during shutdown?
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: so only mainland benefits there, so admin of group owned land on mainland are screwed?
[12:33] Simon Linden: yes, they do Whirly, but this is just trying to stop adding stuff to the region's workload when it shuts down
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: *estates benefit
[12:33] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh
[12:34] Simon Linden: let's say you TP into a regoin in the last second before it shuts down ... you're still going to be loading when it boots you out
[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah and then changes you made to attachments can be lost after relog
[12:34] Simon Linden: The same possibly with rezzing an expensive no-copy item ... it's just not a good idea to start a complicated process right before shutdown. So those last 60 seconds are going to block entering and rezzing
[12:35] Talarus Luan: Works for me
[12:35] Whirly Fizzle: Sounds good
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: so mainland admin are still screwed?
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: also
[12:36] Simon Linden: I also added the region name to those "Your region is about to shutdown" messages
[12:36] Simon Linden: That way when you TP around a bit and then notice you have one, you can see what region it's for
[12:36] Nalates Urriah: That will be nice Simon
[12:36] Rex Cronon: why is bad 4 mainland lucy
[12:36] Rex Cronon: ?
[12:36] Talarus Luan: Speaking of restarting sims...we've experienced a strange grid-disconnect region state in the last month or so.. we have had regions which are still up, with people able to move around and interact with scripted and physical objects inside, but nothing will rez, and people can't TP in/out or cross the region border in or out
[12:36] Qie Niangao: Seems fine for Mainland admins (whatever those are) -- the probability was always vanishingly small of ever successfully doing whatever one intended during those last 60 seconds.
[12:37] Talarus Luan: Get all kinds of crazy error messages and timeouts.
[12:37] Andrew Linden: I don't think "screwed" is quite the right word in this case. It would be a rare occurrence that someone would be blocked from entry from the region at the last minute before restart.
[12:37] Lucia Nightfire: is this magically goign to fix the problem with regions having up to an hour of server time loss with shutdowns? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7959
[12:37] Simon Linden: Do you get any messages about caps problems, Talarus?
[12:37] Talarus Luan: It's like the grid forgot we exist.
[12:38] Simon Linden: It will magically fix everything, Lucy :P
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: idk, lol
[12:38] Talarus Luan: Hmm.. I don't think so, but I've only seen it twice.
[12:38] Rex Cronon: talarus. thre r some griefing objects tha can do that
[12:38] Talarus Luan: The region doesn't crash
[12:39] Rex Cronon: i know. i have experienced it before
[12:39] Talarus Luan: Of course, if one does it with no one in it, we have to put in a ticket to have it restarted.
[12:39] Talarus Luan: Because no EM can get inside to restart it manually.
[12:40] Rex Cronon: maybe there is a viewer that does it. not sure
[12:40] Simon Linden: I'm guessing but that sounds like a network issue or somehow the network / messaging system is messed up and it's not talking to neighbors or possibly the back-end servers right
[12:40] Talarus Luan: Might it be possible to give estate owners/managers a sim restart control panel?
[12:40] Whirly Fizzle: Thats been happening a lot more recently. When a region is in that state, you can't TP into it usually but you can login directly, but you can't TP out. mesh will not rez, you appear offline to your contacts, you can't upload any assets. Friends & group lists are blank. Its like total caps fail. Restarting the region usually fixes it.
[12:40] Kitto Flora: Has anyone been seeing a Sim get into a state where you can TP in and out, and jump, but you cannot move forwanrds/backwards/sideways - also Vehicles will not move ?
[12:40] Simon Linden: Doing what, Talarus? You already can restart it or cancel a restart
[12:40] Talarus Luan nods to Whirly's words.
[12:41] Talarus Luan: Not unless you are in it.
[12:41] Talarus Luan: If you are locked out of your region when this happens, you can't restart it
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: Sometimes regions come back after a restart already in that state when they were fine before. Another restart will again fix it
[12:41] Talarus Luan: Have to put in a ticket
[12:41] Talarus Luan: and I have been unable to log into the region directly.
[12:41] Rex Cronon: kitto. i think i had that happen to me once
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1516
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: Maestro investigated that quasi caps fail thing
[12:42] Talarus Luan: It seems that you have tried to perform an operation which you are not permitted to perform.
If you think this message is wrong, please contact your JIRA administrators. :P
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: although he never posted his findings on that jira
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: I was in IM conf with him though
[12:42] Kitto Flora: Permission Violation
It seems that you have tried to perform an operation which you are not permitted to perform.
[12:42] Simon Linden: There is another fix in the pipeline that might be related to that bad communication, but it's between the region and your viewer
[12:43] Talarus Luan: This seems to be a back-end comms/net problem
[12:43] Simon Linden: it can show up as very slow updates like that, or really slow updates to seeing parcel info and such
[12:43] Kitto Flora: Jira has been broken for months - years now?
[12:43] Talarus Luan: Between the region and the spaceserver
[12:43] Talarus Luan: and the asset server
[12:44] TankMaster Finesmith: jira is working mostly as LL designed it
[12:44] Talarus Luan: If it happens again, I am going to get more detailed messages to put into a BUG report.
[12:44] Kitto Flora: LL hiring Detroit engineers now?
[12:45] Andrew Linden: I had a little bit of news...
[12:45] Simon Linden: Thanks Talarus, that will help
[12:46] Andrew Linden: I'm pretty much done on interestlist work, so I'll be starting some general maintenance work
[12:46] Andrew Linden: with the goal of focusing on some anti-grief issues
[12:46] Whirly Fizzle: Yay!
[12:46] Kitto Flora: yay!
[12:46] Talarus Luan: llSetKeyframedMotion fix. :P
[12:47] Andrew Linden: No need to submit anything for my to-do list right now. I still have a few items I wrote down from last week to try to look at
[12:47] Rex Cronon: what is wrong with keyfram?
[12:47] Andrew Linden: to get me back into the maintenance groove.
[12:47] Talarus Luan: Motion stops on sim restart
[12:47] Rex Cronon: oh
[12:47] Talarus Luan: Have to reset script to make it start back up
[12:47] Andrew Linden: Telarus, that is on my list. I will try to repro and then see what I can figure out.
[12:48] Kitto Flora: Put re-start in change event ?
[12:48] Whirly Fizzle: It also breaks if you pick the object up & re-rez or shift copy it
[12:48] Andrew Linden: Lucia, you wanted to talk to me about grief issues? Let's discuss in private IM after this meeting.
[12:48] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-1624 (llSetKeyframedMotion rotation behaving badly after being used in an object rezzed from inventory )
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: ok, sooner than expected, I'll have to poll my list of topics from teh back of my mind instead of anything I have written out, lol
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: but its still the beginning anyway, no harm
[12:49] Kitto Flora: BUG-1624
Permission Violation
It seems that you have tried to perform an operation which you are not permitted to perform.
[12:49] Kitto Flora: Jira is broken.
[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: jira works fine for me
[12:50] Talarus Luan: I think the BUG links are for Lindens and other disciples of the Linden Ivory Coucil. :P
[12:50] Rex Cronon: where do u file a jira about a broken jira:)
[12:50] Kitto Flora: catch 22
[12:50] Whirly Fizzle: On JIRA :(
[12:50] Qie Niangao: Jira is broken-as-intended.
[12:50] TankMaster Finesmith: ive filed a jira with jira about jira before :P
[12:50] Simon Linden: I dunno about you folks, but I'd rather not spend much of my discussing jira
[12:50] Simon Linden: +time
[12:51] Talarus Luan: hehe
[12:51] bob Iwashi thinks it's baker's turn to get coffee for everyone
[12:51] Kitto Flora: Whirly Fizzle - if you can read that BUg - how about cut/paste it here, to bypass the jira bug, so we can see what the problem is?
[12:52] Baker Linden: I don't have coffee
[12:52] Talarus Luan: It's not a bug, it's a feature. :P
[12:52] TankMaster Finesmith: theres to much to paste in here
[12:52] Rex Cronon: kitto. i think jira doesn't think u r important enough to be able to use it;)
[12:53] Kitto Flora: Rex - Moot point. Since that bug showed up I have stopped posting any Jira reports. If LL cant fix the bug reporting system... what chance of fixing the bugs there?
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: Kitto : http://i.imgur.com/eL9XW44.png
[12:55] Kennylex Luckless: Dose it exist an Oculus Rift compatible wiwer?
[12:55] TankMaster Finesmith: the bug reporting system works fine, LL can see al the bugs filed
[12:55] Kennylex Luckless: Wuup, wrong win
[12:55] TankMaster Finesmith: kenny, yes, LL has a viewer with oculus support
[12:55] Tillie Ariantho: 3d support would be so cool. :D
[12:55] Talarus Luan: ..including all the dupes. :P
[12:55] Meeter: Timecheck : User Group is almost over
[12:55] Kennylex Luckless: Can I ask here, where to find it?
[12:56] Simon Linden: oh yeah, I tried SL in the Rift yesterday ... it's not released yet but it's gonna be fun :)
[12:56] TankMaster Finesmith: the repo for that is public, correct, simon?
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: Baker, in regards to group bans, is there anything to deter a scenario of bots auto-re-joining groups upon detection of ejection aside from turning off open enrollment, then eject, then ban, then open enrollment back on, forgot to ask last OH
[12:57] Simon Linden: I don't know if it's public or not, Tank
[12:57] Rex Cronon: i think using the rift during a major griefing event would be quite interesting;)
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: some bots have instant re-join cap upon ejection, much fast than you can do all I just described
[12:57] Kopilo Hallard: the oddball
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: which is why I ask, lol
[12:57] Kallista Destiny: then ban, when it's implemented will prevent rejoining
[12:57] Kennylex Luckless: Better to sit at the computer with a dumb looking box on the head then sit looking on the dumb box (TV)
[12:57] Kitto Flora: Whirly Fizzle - thats interesting... I have not seen a problem with rotation in KFM - and I have a whole new product line that uses KFM for its operation. I'd try to repo that bug you see, but I cant read the script from that link.
[12:57] Simon Linden: I think it'll slow down your griefing, Rex ;)
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: I'm mentionign it since group banlist ability is not grandfather with other abilites
[12:58] Baker Linden: Lucy, I'm a but confused. If you ban someone, they can't re-join again until they're off the ban list
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: idt there will be an "eject and ban" option
[12:58] Rex Cronon: i don't grief. i just subjected to it
[12:58] Kallista Destiny: It's still a Work In Progress.
[12:58] Talarus Luan: Here, you can still read mine: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7556
[12:58] Baker Linden: Ban will most certainly auto-eject the person
[12:58] Whirly Fizzle: Kitto: Script paste: http://pastebin.com/JEDeR73H
[12:58] Baker Linden: ban is like an eject, but it actually stucks
[12:58] Baker Linden: sticks*
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: ok, great, as long as it follows the current eject checks, lol
[12:59] Baker Linden: And banning someone will automatically ban them regardless of what role they're in, so it'll be a pretty powerful tool
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: didn't know that ban also ejected at teh same time
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: or will I mean
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: just please tell me an officer cannot ban an owner, lol
[13:00] TankMaster Finesmith: and theres no way for viewer side hacks to rejoin the group?
[13:00] Baker Linden: owners will not be able to be banned
[13:00] Baker Linden: but anyone with the ban ability will be able to ban anyone else regardless of role.
[13:00] Lucia Nightfire: mistakes happen and if you tie in lsl backend they can happen easily
[13:00] Baker Linden: I mean, save the owner, of course.
[13:00] Kallista Destiny: Because owners can't be ejected.
[13:00] Meeter: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group
[13:01] Rex Cronon: if somebody has like 100 alts group banning might not hurt them so much
[13:01] Kallista Destiny: Did everyone just get a 15 second warning>
[13:01] Lucia Nightfire: so officers can ban/eject other officers? if they have group banlist ability?
[13:01] Andrew Linden: but... who to give the ban ability to by default? The owner of course, but some groups no longer have an enabled owner.
[13:01] TankMaster Finesmith: 15 sec warning for what?
[13:02] Whirly Fizzle: No warning here o.O
[13:02] Baker Linden: Correct. Anyone with the ban ability can ban anyone else. My reasoning is that if you can't trust an officer with banning, don't let that person be an officer.
[13:02] Rex Cronon: i am no longer allowed here and i have 15 seconds to leave?
[13:02] Kallista Destiny: To leave the region
[13:02] Rex Cronon: why?
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: that worries me, little
[13:02] Kallista Destiny: "you are notlonger welcome here, you have 15 seconds to leave"
[13:03] TankMaster Finesmith: i didnt get that message
[13:03] Rex Cronon: i got it too
[13:03] Whirly Fizzle: Me either
[13:03] Rex Cronon: its a notification
[13:03] Kallista Destiny: Someone is a smart ass then
[13:03] Talarus Luan: Someone's fiddling with access settings :P
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: soemone flipped public ascces on/off, lol
[13:03] Baker Linden: The other route I can go is anyone with the ban ability can ban anyone that doesn't have that ability
[13:03] Lucia Nightfire: or off/on
[13:04] Lucia Nightfire: Baker I think that would be best as it would mirror existing eject rights
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: That would be better I think, Baker
[13:04] Rex Cronon: a new hack. interesting. sending notifications to others
[13:04] Baker Linden: but I don't see the point in that, since we already have a problem with eject not being able to eject anyone belonging to any role other than "Everyone" which seems pointless to me
[13:04] Simon Linden: That was me ... I was checking a dialog UI switch. Sorry for the confusion
[13:04] Whirly Fizzle: Well, an officer can already eject another officer can't they? If they have been given that ability in group role
[13:04] Baker Linden: no, Whirly
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: OH, OK...
[13:04] Simon Linden: I need to get going ... thanks everyone for coming today
[13:04] Kallista Destiny: lol
[13:04] Rex Cronon: lol simon. u got me worried
[13:04] Baker Linden: not necessarily
[13:04] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[13:04] Whirly Fizzle: Ty Lindens
[13:05] Baker Linden: Eject Members from this Group using the 'Eject' button in the Roles section > Members tab. An Owner can eject anyone except another Owner. If you're not an Owner, a Member can be ejected from a group if, and only if, they're only in the Everyone Role, and NO other Roles. To remove Members from Roles, you need to have the 'Remove Members from Roles' Ability.
[13:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Lindens.
[13:05] TankMaster Finesmith: tc simon
[13:05] ANSI Soderstrom shouts: hi && bye O.o
[13:05] ANSI Soderstrom: ups
[13:05] Talarus Luan: Ciao
[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: the problem wtih ejects is roles outside of everyone and officer
[13:05] Nalates Urriah: Thx Lindens
[13:05] Kallista Destiny: Yeah which makes it timeconsuming to eject people
[13:05] Kennylex Luckless: Is Simon gray?
[13:05] Lucia Nightfire: created roles I mean
[13:05] Kallista Destiny: No he's Simon Linden
[13:05] Yuzuru Jewell: Simon, you looks gray upper body..
[13:06] Simon Linden: I'll re-bake....
[13:06] Whirly Fizzle: I see grey too
[13:06] Nalates Urriah: I see Simon's shirt as grey. The rest of him has color
[13:06] Whirly Fizzle: Baked now
[13:06] Rex Cronon: i se simon that way too
[13:06] Kallista Destiny: baked now
[13:06] Simon Linden: I must have been half-baked
[13:06] Yuzuru Jewell: I see!
[13:06] Whirly Fizzle: lol
[13:06] Talarus Luan: Default setting :P
[13:06] Kennylex Luckless: Now you good and I do not say "I see gray people"
[13:06] Kallista Destiny giggles
[13:06] Nalates Urriah: Somon is rezzing completely now
[13:06] Rex Cronon: how u bake a linden:)
[13:06] Yuzuru Jewell: yes
[13:06] Talarus Luan: Need to finish your doob before the meeting :P
[13:07] Rex Cronon: u ok now simon
[13:07] Simon Linden: speaking of baking, I want to do a quick informal poll ... is the SSA code good? Do you like the way it works now?
[13:07] Rex Cronon: now your hat is gray:)
[13:07] Whirly Fizzle: Yesh
[13:07] Kallista Destiny: GTG!
[13:07] Kennylex Luckless: Back home, see laters. take care and have fun.
[13:07] Kallista Destiny: Ship it
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: I'd like it if it was grid wide, lol
[13:07] TankMaster Finesmith: yeahm the SSA code seems to be working fine
[13:07] Talarus Luan: I haven't noticed a difference, which is what I would expect. :D
[13:07] Lucia Nightfire: but yes so far, yes
[13:07] Whirly Fizzle: SHIP IT!
[13:07] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
[13:07] Simon Linden: we're on an old style region, fwiw
[13:08] Simon Linden: great, thanks for the comments
[13:08] Simon Linden: See you on Thursday
[13:08] Rex Cronon: some people say they got problems since the ssa
[13:08] Talarus Luan: I just wish the viewer would stop hitching so badly. :(
[13:09] Whirly Fizzle: Hitching how?
[13:09] Andrew Linden: ok see you all later.
[13:09] Rex Cronon: have fun andrew
[13:09] TankMaster Finesmith: tc andrew, simon, baker :D
[13:09] Talarus Luan: Turning the camera, right-clicking a name, opening About Land
[13:09] Baker Linden: Thanks for your time everyone. Have a great week!
[13:09] Yuzuru Jewell: Nyx said gray avatar causes not ssa but http transfer, yesterday.
[13:09] Rex Cronon: ok meeting over. stopping logging
[13:09] Rex Cronon: tc baker
[13:09] Talarus Luan: Get freezes from a few seconds to nearly a minute
[13:10] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Rex.
[13:10] Rex Cronon: np
[13:10] Whirly Fizzle: You on V3 or a v3 viewer with CHUI?
[13:10] Yuzuru Jewell: It helped me!
[13:10] Talarus Luan: Whatever the latest LL viewer is
[13:10] Talarus Luan: Just installed the update today
[13:10] Rex Cronon: i am glad it did:)
[13:10] Whirly Fizzle: The freeze on right clicking an avi name and when opening prefs is known CHUI bug
[13:10] TankMaster Finesmith: so V3 with the new vivox :P
[13:11] Nalates Urriah: by all
[13:11] Whirly Fizzle: The freeze when opening about land is usually only on regions with a really long covenant, which basically means any region in Caledon estate.
[13:11] Yuzuru Jewell: TankMaster, I updated GPU table, And I can see shadows.
Simulator_User_Group
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