Open Source Meeting/2010-07-06

== Transcript ==
[13:53]	:	nicky you can use the plain snowglobe titel as well
[13:53]	:	hi all
[13:53]	:	Hi
[13:53]	:	hey boroondas
[13:58]	:	no agenda for today?
[13:58]	:	have not even looked at it
[13:58]	:	Boroondas, did you het any snapshots of the Snowglobe display at SL7B?
[13:58]	:	no
[13:59]	:	I only saw it on the last day it was on display, one week after SL7B
[13:59]	:	couldn't make it before, because I was on vaccation
[13:59]	:	i hope no one has issues wiht my outift? i didnt have time to change
[14:00]	:	as far as im concerned it is ok cummere
[14:00]	:	Just don't catch a cold ;-)
[14:01]	:	good. thank you
[14:01]	:	hey merov
[14:01]	:	Hi Merov
[14:01]	:	merove i have an odd question
[14:01]	:	Hi merov.
[14:01]	:	Hi guys
[14:01]	:	Looks like Oz is playing with his house again.
[14:02]	:	Oz is playing house?
[14:02]	:	yep i see that as well
[14:02]	:	Office Hour HUD is an hour off too.....
[14:02]	:	Cummere: what's your question?
[14:02]	:	merov will the linden emails work for a linden for say a month after they are terminated? or do they disapear immediately?
[14:02]	:	they disappear very rapidly
[14:02]	:	within days
[14:02]	:	damn :(
[14:03]	:	I haven't prepared an agenda for today
[14:04]	:	we were just talking about that befor you showed up merov :)
[14:04]	:	the big action item for me is merge of viewer-external to the 2.x trunk
[14:04]	:	That should be fun.
[14:04]	:	better get out the asprin
[14:04]	:	I suppose you all saw the branch I created and that it now builds
[14:04]	:	after a couple of coughs...
[14:04]	:	and the alkaseltzer
[14:05]	:	well, its not all fun but not too bad either
[14:05]	:	very mechanical
[14:05]	:	the good thing is I've been involved in pretty much every single commits in 2.0 so I have a clue on how to resolve conflicts
[14:05]	:	that helps
[14:05]	:	Watch out for that MultiAttach stuff. It has done bad things to inventory.
[14:06]	:	it will be interesting to see if the water issue stays fixed after the you bring over the 2.1 code
[14:06]	:	One thing I might do though that may disturb things is to incremental merges to the trunk
[14:06]	:	just to make things easier to track with viewer-external and also to make my job a tad easier
[14:07]	:	if you created a new branch, wouldn't it be saver to merge trunk (incrementally, if you want) into that?
[14:07]	:	that *might* create trunk unstability (we know that some intermediate rev in viewer-external are unstable so the relevant intermediate merge will also be)
[14:08]	:	shouts: perl upstairs on lz
[14:08]	:	:-P
[14:08]	:	Borrondas: you're right but then I'll have to merge that branch...
[14:08]	:	hu?
[14:08]	:	I so wish I bit the bullet and use hg when doing the rease
[14:08]	:	rebase
[14:09]	:	that makes merging so much better
[14:09]	:	Maybe I'm thinking to git-ish (or hg-ish, if you want) but once the new branch has stabilized, can't that just be made the new trunk without any further merging?
[14:10]	:	assuming there'll be no commit whatsoever in the interim, you're right Boroondas
[14:10]	:	but if there's no commit, there's not much point in creating another branch... except for cleaniness?
[14:11]	:	true
[14:11]	:	well, what would you prefer guys? I don't have a religion
[14:11]	:	on this
[14:12]	:	I'm just trying not to create extra work for myself but, if it makes things harder for you, I shouldn't merge directly on trunk
[14:12]	:	well, if I know what trunk revisions to avoid for stable building, that's not a big issue
[14:13]	:	Well, I am not a comitter and my contributions have been trivial so I guess I have no opinion.
[14:13]	:	i would think since your the one haveing to do all the major work you could do what is easiest on you
[14:14]	:	Why not use hg instead of svn?
[14:14]	:	one silly thing beside the branching (svn admin work) is the parabuild admin stuff I'll have to dupe
[14:14]	:	it's almost more headache than svn...
[14:15]	:	Aleric: we need to move to hg, I agree
[14:15]	:	I can't do it right now as I need to change the export scripts though to use hg instead of svn
[14:15]	:	and also hange the opensource build scripts
[14:16]	:	it's not a massive amount of work but it's a set of fragile scripts and will require a couple of days of work
[14:17]	:	i guess when you change i will have to get a new program to acess the file server for updates then right?
[14:17]	:	I'm also hesitating doing that right before syncing everything together and releasings Snowglobe 2.0
[14:18]	:	Yes, it'll be a change for everyone, hg is easy to use though if you just use it to check out the code, not much different from svn
[14:18]	:	it gets a bit diferent when developping with the "commit then push" commands
[14:19]	:	In the long run, I prefer hg
[14:19]	:	well, I guess only commiters will be able to push, but could we use pull requests instead of patches?
[14:19]	:	it's vastly superior for merges and history management
[14:20]	:	Boroondas: that's interesting, yes, hg uses very much a "pull philosophy"
[14:20]	:	The difference is that with hg and git you 'push' pointers around: every commit is local and creates an unique 'pointer' (compare UUID). If you 'push' or 'pull' you make those pointers (and all data necessary for it) available to others (or from others). One pointer represents a complete snapshot of a source tree.
[14:20]	:	((pulling someone that wants to try and understand what i /me pats beside her for kri to set.
[14:20]	:	*what we do
[14:21]	:	okay so really only patchers and committers need to worry about the differances between svn and hg?
[14:21]	:	anyhow, I was thinking doing the move to hg at a less busy time
[14:21]	:	when the whole trunk is huming along and viewer-external and trunk are synced
[14:22]	:	since Snowglobe is destined to always be merging from viewer-external, I think it makes sense to move to hg sooner rather than later.
[14:23]	:	/me thinks
[14:23]	:	on the other hand, I have no idea how much work it would take...
[14:24]	:	well, I do, that's what makes me hesitates :D
[14:24]	:	is there any part of that work where we could help?
[14:24]	:	Really, yout should get a collegue for this work. Seems you got more to do than it possible to handle for one person :/ ... but I guess LL isn't likely to hire new people (or reassign them to help you)....
[14:24]	:	especially knowing that only me can do it (mostly internal, "LL side of the fence" scripts)
[14:25]	:	i take it its allot of work merov?
[14:25]	:	there are a couple of great folks internally who can help me mind you
[14:25]	:	CG to start with, others too
[14:25]	:	but they've been slammed recently
[14:26]	:	and I know that if I hit a snag, the whole open source update thing can go dark for while...
[14:26]	:	with all you my friends kicking my butt till I get things in order...
[14:27]	:	tell you what: I want to move to hg as much (may be even more) tahn you
[14:27]	:	gotta go rl
[14:28]	:	so I'll chat with CG and see if we can get something together, if it would be a better strategy right now when doing the viewer-external syncing
[14:29]	:	tc nicky
[14:29]	:	You might want to consult BOS, too.
[14:29]	:	/me returns
[14:29]	:	I guess I should hit the list also to make sure no one wll scream at a change of tool
[14:29]	:	current viewer-externial is b0rked for standalone. Even looking at the commnets in the new cmake file says it is not finished.
[14:29]	:	Boroondas: I *know* what bos is gonna say... no point to ask a question... :)
[14:29]	:	it might help to point out tortoiseHG to prevent that screaming
[14:30]	:	funy but that's one I never got to get working on my ebd (Tortoisehg)
[14:30]	:	I'm doing all hg stuff under command line
[14:30]	:	yay!
[14:31]	:	/me is typing like Techwolf today..
[14:31]	:	cli ftw!
[14:31]	:	/me facepaws
[14:32]	:	I spend two days, yesterday and today, to set up a dual boot with (reinstalled) debian and windows XP professional.... <smiley intentionally left out>
[14:32]	:	heh
[14:32]	:	you had to re-install debian?
[14:32]	:	that sounds like a fun way to spend your 4th of July weekend :)
[14:32]	:	What distro is the build farm used that is currently used to build snowglobe?
[14:32]	:	/me laughs and gives tech a hug
[14:33]	:	not that you care about 4th of july p
[14:33]	:	yes, there is no way to get it to work on two different harddisks.. so I had to cut my 320 GB harddisk into two.
[14:33]	:	Techowlf, I think Debian Lenny (gcc 4.1)
[14:33]	:	/me hands Aleric a hacksaw.
[14:33]	:	Have at it, bub.
[14:33]	:	debian lenny has gcc 4.3 now.
[14:34]	:	hacksaw? I think shotgun would be in order
[14:34]	:	4.3.2
[14:34]	:	Techwolf: I think we're still using Etch actually
[14:34]	:	arghghgh
[14:34]	:	not 100% positive
[14:34]	:	Is that older?
[14:34]	:	let me check
[14:34]	:	That would be ridiculous!
[14:34]	:	Are you sure you're not still using a.out instead of ELF?
[14:34]	:	o.O
[14:34]	:	/me lol
[14:34]	:	Etch has gcc 4.1.1
[14:35]	:	http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=gcc&searchon=names&suite=all§ion=all
[14:35]	:	I know cmake 2.6.2 is not aviable for lenny
[14:35]	:	yeap, ridiculous but it's etch
[14:35]	:	/me looks up Etch...
[14:36]	:	Etch is oldstable, i.e. the one before the current stable, which is already pretty old.
[14:36]	:	/me looks up security exploits in etch that weren't fixed cause it isn't supported anymore.
[14:36]	:	the build machines are basically the last ones to be upgraded
[14:37]	:	I'll ask CG what's the plan here
[14:37]	:	I'm sure there's one, I just haven't followed super closely
[14:37]	:	etch (oldstable) <--!!!
[14:38]	:	well, as long as the viewer can be built with more up-to-date environment, too, I don't care
[14:38]	:	I know ther is code in snowglobe to check for cmake 2.6.2 or higher...
[14:38]	:	We will make sure of that :p
[14:38]	:	(will post a patch for libpng-1.4.x compatibility after this meeting)
[14:39]	:	From the changeset at http://hg.secondlife.com/llqtwebkit/changeset/4be43c883645
[14:39]	:	OK, that's 2 action items for me to check with CG
[14:39]	:	Boroondas, I forgot about that patch...i'be been using it for a while with no prolblems/.
[14:40]	:	oh, you made one, too?
[14:40]	:	/me giggles. "should i try and tp him here morov?"
[14:40]	:	For 2.0, I'm waiting for Robin to come back from vacation
[14:40]	:	Yes. I coded it up nearly the same day libpng got upgraded and been using it on all the TPVs I got.
[14:40]	:	to finish SNOW-669
[14:40]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-669 [#SNOW-669] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:41]	:	"Follow these steps on - very specifically - a Ubuntu Dapper installation, 15 if you (i.e. Linden Lab!) desire the widest possible compatibility of 16 the resulting binary."
[14:41]	:	He should be back Wednesday I think
[14:41]	:	ack...sorry
[14:42]	:	what was that tech?
[14:42]	:	That was from http://hg.secondlife.com/llqtwebkit/changeset/4be43c883645
[14:43]	:	I see a new bug has been file on standalone linux build
[14:43]	:	SNOW-735
[14:43]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-735 [#SNOW-735] make[2]: *** No rule to make target `../newview/vivox-runtime/i686-linux/libsndfile.so.1', needed by `llcommon/libsndfile.so.1'. Stop.
[14:43]	:	brb
[14:43]	:	Merov, feel free to assign that one to me.
[14:43]	:	ok Tech :)
[14:43]	:	I think he was actually building viewer-external there
[14:44]	:	I've been doing a lot of prebuild build system buiding latley.
[14:44]	:	I just got done submitting a job app. I now have the rest of day to work on bugs.
[14:44]	:	and patches
[14:45]	:	:-)
[14:46]	:	/me has the day off from RL work and just wishes he could do builds faster
[14:46]	:	ccache is your friend.
[14:46]	:	back
[14:46]	:	*:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
[14:46]	:	ok, well, from now till Thursday, my goal is to get trunk synced up with viewer-external, I'll see with CG if moving to hg at the same time is a good idea
[14:46]	:	brb...got grifter at a sim I help take care of.
[14:47]	:	oka merov. got any new windows bug jiras you need me to look at?
[14:47]	:	grifter ...
[14:47]	:	Cummere: not any right in my mind right now
[14:48]	:	im about to just close a couple of those from two weeks ago that the reporters never answered
[14:48]	:	please do :)
[14:48]	:	Reproing bugs is very important, often 50% of the work of fixing a bug
[14:48]	:	so we do appreaciate your help Cummere :)
[14:48]	:	is there any thing i could help with merov?
[14:48]	:	okay ill try and get those closed this week then. if they cant be bothered to get back and i cant repo them *shrugs*
[14:49]	:	make sure to comment that they should open when they add more info
[14:49]	:	i do thick :)
[14:49]	:	some people take closing bugs as NMI to mean "go away"
[14:49]	:	um, better resolve them instead of closing
[14:49]	:	closing indicates a final solution
[14:49]	:	i havent been active in the jira the last year but i do still have the hang of it.
[14:49]	:	some fo these were already resolved nmi bor
[14:50]	:	and not responded to in weeks and in one case months now
[14:50]	:	about helping: reviewing the bugs assigned to "Snwoglobe myserious future{ (166 of them) is always welcome
[14:50]	:	it's a lot of work to narrow them down often
[14:52]	:	there's also quite a bit of wiki gardening to do
[14:52]	:	something I haven't been doing much lately so I'm sure lots of things are out of date in there
[14:53]	:	Merov, about that...
[14:53]	:	it's ok to to link the 1.4 builds on the wiki as soon as they are posted to sldev-commits, right?
[14:53]	:	yeap
[14:54]	:	well i see that three of the mestrious fetures are meta issues i created to try and help sort where the issues are OS wise
[14:54]	:	what 's posted to sldev-commits is public
[14:54]	:	I also think we should be updating the linked 2.0 build to the ltest one more often - we won't know about bugs unless people use it.
[14:54]	:	I need to create nre target revs on JIRA
[14:54]	:	and it's already marked "Test build" (well, it's not very clear, I guess)
[14:55]	:	so we can start riaging what we'll do for the next iteration
[14:55]	:	snow 660-663 are os related meta issues concerning building the code
[14:55]	:	Can someone give me a quick update of what happened the last 5 weeks? I already know we switched IRC network, but not much more ...
[14:56]	:	boroondas we now have a stable branch of the snowglobe v2
[14:56]	:	look at the svn log Boroondas :)
[14:56]	:	but yes, what Wolfpu said
[14:56]	:	we also have Rob's Replacement to pester (Oz Linden)
[14:57]	:	ill try and find time to start sorting though the windows bugs and requests merov but i might not get to it till the end of the month,
[14:57]	:	/lolo thickbrick
[14:57]	:	we pushed on SG2.0 quite hard, reducing the bug count from 50+ to 2 then branches
[14:57]	:	branched
[14:57]	:	but ill start resolving and closing those i havent heard back on that have been holding us up
[14:57]	:	now I'm syncing trunk to viewer-external
[14:57]	:	ok
[14:58]	:	as fast as I can (though moving to hg might reduce my cruising speed, may be for the better in the end)
[14:58]	:	on other news, *lots* of things happen at LL in the past 5 weeks but I don't think I need to comment on any of those...
[14:58]	:	cummere leave snow 660-663 open as those are meta issues to help track other issues by OS when building the code
[14:59]	:	back..what I missed?
[14:59]	:	*:::* WELCOME BACK *:::* tech
[14:59]	:	Tech: did you bite him?
[14:59]	:	i never close or resolve a meta unless told to by a linden o.O
[14:59]	:	Aleric, temped to at times.
[15:00]	:	im more talking abotu ones like snow 516
[15:00]	:	Tech, you look like you could swallow Aleric in one bite :)
[15:00]	:	or your head
[15:00]	:	I haven't closed them butpushed them to future as all the linked issues were alos pushed to future
[15:01]	:	Merov, naaa...maybe jsut the head. But I know a few dragon that could. :-)
[15:01]	:	that's a scary thought
[15:01]	:	Techwolf is my bodyguard :)
[15:01]	:	k, we reached 3pm in a quiet meeting today
[15:01]	:	i think im gonna just for now reresolve 516 and consider it a non issue. ive tried to contact free several times...
[15:02]	:	may be you guys in Europe are cheering your teams a bit too much tonight :)
[15:02]	:	I hate succer
[15:02]	:	/me just saw Holland beat Uruguay
[15:02]	:	the end of the match was fun :-P
[15:02]	:	I thought it was still called Football in your half of the planet?
[15:03]	:	voetbal
[15:03]	:	merov since free still hasnt responded mind if i resolve it cannot reproduce?
[15:03]	:	Fussball (or Fußball, outside of Switzerland)
[15:03]	:	Cummere: make it so
[15:03]	:	My neighbors were cheering very loudly during the game today. Got me thinking about the news article about this SA guy who killed his neighbor for playing the vuvuzela too loudly during games.
[15:03]	:	surely a justifiable himicide
[15:04]	:	Has that "vuvuzela" team lost yet in the cup?
[15:04]	:	you can spot the non-US citizen folks these days at the office: those are the ones looking at the game online :)
[15:04]	:	I don't care much for the game myself and I find the behavior of the fans in the stadiums keep me form ever forming an interest in the game they so enthusiastically interfere with.
[15:04]	:	/me has shifty eyes. "you mean us non us ones dont?"
[15:05]	:	*non nonus
[15:05]	:	The US team is out of the race, so I don't care much for it now.
[15:05]	:	yeah they screwed up bad *sniffs*
[15:05]	:	I hate it because you are FORCED to watch it, or worse, to listen to it. No matter where you go.
[15:05]	:	The idiot-horn wielders do nothing but interfere with the game. What's the point?
[15:05]	:	I meant: not citizen of the United States
[15:05]	:	Cummere, SNOW-516 is already resolved NMI, and I think we should probably leave it that way... it's kind of a random bug, so it *might* still be out there.
[15:05]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-516 [#SNOW-516] Viewer is frozen when I login after some minute.
[15:05]	:	Frankly..I am attempting to not be amused now *MY 2 cents*
[15:05]	:	I can't even swim in the swimmingpool anymore: loud speakers with a screaming soccer asshole.
[15:06]	:	I need to get some train horns for the hulegans.
[15:06]	:	http://xkcd.com/757/
[15:07]	:	(also see the hover-tip)
[15:07]	:	So when a friend of mine gets one of those niebors, pumped about 200 plus pouncs of air though the train horn when he hits the vuvuvzenlu would cure him/her really quickly.
[15:08]	:	i see you beat me to changing the one on snow 558 merov. and yes tried on xp and 7
[15:08]	:	on SNOW-516: there's little value keeping open bugs we can't repro like that one, especially when the reporter goes silent
[15:08]	:	though on xp i have developed an opposite bug. i cant get out of that screen without trouble
[15:08]	:	Merov, can you dig into the LL system and found out when the last time the reported logged into SL?
[15:09]	:	a good bug base is one that allow the devs to focus on the important issues, too many floating unclear bugs is counter productive in that respect
[15:09]	:	reporter that is
[15:09]	:	Techwolf: that's an idea
[15:09]	:	yeah unless im the one suffering them merov. *giggles* then its important they get fixed :P
[15:09]	:	even if im the only one!
[15:10]	:	Let me see if I can hack that info....
[15:10]	:	i would like to know something though, before i reopen a closed bug...
[15:10]	:	k, I need to go for today
[15:10]	:	thanks for coming guys and see you Thursday :)
[15:10]	:	has anyone else had issues with crashes destroying the settings file in sg 2.0 + in windows 7?
[15:11]	:	merov it looks like snow-165 might only be affecting older viewer versions
[15:11]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-165 [#SNOW-165] Prims being invisible
[15:11]	:	Found it. Free Portal last long in was 7-5-2010
[15:11]	:	loong=login
[15:11]	:	please specify your date format :-P
[15:12]	:	Oh, Mouse World (SL Disney land) is closing in a week... they couldnt pay the rent anymore :(
[15:12]	:	since I got a new graphics card and can now set my draw distance and details much higher, I see a lot more of SNOW-165 (on sg 1.4)
[15:12]	:	is that july 5th or may 7th?
[15:12]	:	Date format is "screwed up" in the SL client. ;-)
[15:12]	:	we should all move to iso format
[15:12]	:	I'm going to have a last look...
[15:12]	:	Aleric, before you go...
[15:12]	:	i can goto ultra mode with my system and and do not realy see it ax max draw
[15:13]	:	*poof*
[15:13]	:	heh, too late
[15:13]	:	sooo whats up all :P
[15:13]	:	now that's an interesitng last name ...
[15:14]	:	I was jsut wondering about that... I've seen some emerald people with that trick before
[15:14]	:	using utf-8 trickery?
[15:14]	:	hey boroondas you should see my alts last mane
[15:14]	:	name*
[15:15]	:	how do you get rid of your last name like that?
[15:15]	:	hax
[15:15]	:	and.. ?
[15:15]	:	hacks?
[15:15]	:	okay....
[15:15]	:	ol
[15:15]	:	new line in the group title
[15:15]	:	ah
[15:15]	:	_/nLastName STRING <3
[15:16]	:	lol :-P
[15:16]	:	I thought that was fixed a while ago
[15:16]	:	it is fixed
[15:16]	:	but there are some groups with the tag
[15:16]	:	well only two exist
[15:16]	:	oh
[15:16]	:	ah
[15:16]	:	Vox and Virtual Alchemy
[15:17]	:	i think we should resove 165 as nmi?
[15:17]	:	it still is hapenning sometimes
[15:17]	:	its not been touched since jan and its three+ versions old?
[15:17]	:	on 1.4 and 2.0 thick?
[15:17]	:	1.4. Not sure if the cause is the RenderMaxNodeSize thing (fixed in 2.0, right?) or somehting else
[15:18]	:	hmm can you comment on that then and ill leave it alone?
[15:18]	:	I see the case where the prims disappear, but you still see their outline when editing them from time to time
[15:18]	:	zooming way out and back or teleporting fixes it
[15:19]	:	it might have been in the rendering pipeline and could have been inadvertnaly fixed when the water rendering was fixed as im on the most current build and do not see it
[15:19]	:	Snowglobe 2.0.1 (3471) Jul 6 2010 14:57:08 (Snowglobe Test Build)
[15:19]	:	try rezzing a lot of sculpties
[15:20]	:	it usually triggers it
[15:20]	:	or at least something that looks like it
[15:21]	:	The problem is that RenderMaxNodeSize is an arbitrary limit for the number of vertices (?) in a "node"
[15:21]	:	and the division into nodes is pretty arbitrary too,
[15:21]	:	well wouldnt the railings from oz's place triger it?
[15:21]	:	So when you have a node with a lot of vertices, some stuff won't render.
[15:21]	:	as they are sculpties
[15:21]	:	Thank you for having me..however..I have a mansion to rezz. Tootles :)
[15:22]	:	got it. so what should we do with the jira then?
[15:22]	:	tc kri
[15:22]	:	Thanks
[15:22]	:	bibi now
[15:22]	:	take care kri. and dont sex mythoes up too much in that mansion
[15:22]	:	meh too late
[15:22]	:	and i can see the railings on oz's place from here just fine
[15:22]	:	I rezzed 320 sculpted phys fish in Hippo Hollow yesterday, and that trigerred it nicely
[15:23]	:	anyway, that cutoff should be rewritten to reduce LOD instead of just cut off redering of that node, Ithink.
[15:23]	:	ok thick then lest go over there now and see if it will triget with that on my build dome thisafternoon
[15:23]	:	okay, can you put all that info on the ira please thick?
[15:23]	:	*jira
[15:24]	:	I'll try - the thing is that I think there are other bugs that look like that too
[15:24]	:	Some prim skirts partially vanish.
[15:24]	:	sculpted?
[15:25]	:	I don't know. Wasn't my skirt.
[15:25]	:	might be this should be made meta then?
[15:25]	:	and we try and seperate them out?
[15:25]	:	thick are those fish you had copy/transmod?
[15:26]	:	Anne stoppe wearing it because the front was vanishing making her look like she was in the wrong place. It's a PG region.
[15:26]	:	instant lag...
[15:27]	:	What jira number for this?
[15:27]	:	Turn off selected outline drawing. THat's a hog.
[15:27]	:	165
[15:28]	:	Oh that cute...i selected all the fish and some show as root and other show as child prim.
[15:28]	:	so far none are going invisible on me
[15:28]	:	Yeah, some are individuals, some are in linksets.
[15:28]	:	meh, now I don't see any missing prims (aside from fish that hasn't gotten an ObjectUpdate yet)
[15:29]	:	I see no missing fish.
[15:29]	:	but some show as a huge object others are individuals
[15:29]	:	well.. it IS random
[15:29]	:	i see them all as well and i have moved my cam way out and orbiting it
[15:29]	:	yeah, I couldn't link them all
[15:30]	:	I have flycam and could not get them to disapeard unless they go beyound my draw distance.
[15:30]	:	im on sg 2.0
[15:30]	:	the thing is that having lots of sculpts in view can sometime cause non-sculpted prims to disappear
[15:31]	:	any of you are using a non-default value for RenderMaxNodeSize?
[15:31]	:	techwolf, is there already a jira issue for libpng14?
[15:31]	:	any of you are using a non-default value for RenderMaxNodeSize?
[15:32]	:	what is default?
[15:32]	:	8196
[15:32]	:	mine is at 8192
[15:33]	:	and i have never touched it
[15:33]	:	Hehe. Oops. Mine is 81920
[15:33]	:	I don't remember doing that.
[15:33]	:	heh
[15:33]	:	But I am sure it was me that did it.
[15:33]	:	*8192
[15:33]	:	8192 is the correct value
[15:34]	:	I can't get anything to disappear now
[15:34]	:	im not either thick. *Shrugs*
[15:35]	:	thick my drakelet is heavely sculpted
[15:35]	:	NUMBER=20
[15:35]	:	plus has flexi
[15:35]	 	- Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:35]	 	- Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36]	 	- Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36]	 	- Powderblue Tang: whispers: Ready.
[15:36]	:	NUMBER=20
[15:37]	:	dang all those fish and you still have not realy killed my FPS
[15:37]	:	meh, never mind. I guess it's possible that the reason for the disappearing prims is not RenderMaxNodeSize-related.
[15:37]	:	NUMBER=0
[15:37]	:	Hasn't touched mine either.
[15:37]	:	mine dropped by like a fraction of a frame
[15:37]	:	all those fish didn't bother my client either.
[15:37]	:	Well, maybe a little.
[15:37]	:	if that
[15:38]	:	they do clog your bandwidth, though.
[15:38]	:	well, prim hair is much more to render than a little fish swarm
[15:38]	:	It fluctuates enough it's hard to tell. Maybe dropped me from 31 to 30 or 29
[15:38]	:	alpha is the fps-killer
[15:38]	:	im cruseing along at 17FPS and bearly useing and band
[15:38]	:	36 fps here
[15:38]	:	um 42 here
[15:39]	:	well i do have about 20 other windows open
[15:39]	:	I tend to disable LOD and push up everything except draw distance.
[15:39]	:	/me counts.
[15:39]	:	I kill imposters and water reflections.
[15:40]	:	27 windows, not counting tabs in firefox.
[15:40]	:	tech i was not counting the windows and convos open in sl or the tabs in IE
[15:41]	:	Switching to "recommended settings" doesn't really affect frame rate right now. Might in a crowd.
[15:41]	:	okay well i need to go for now guys
[15:41]	:	take care
[15:41]	:	see you
[15:42]	:	I am severely disappointed in the rendering performance of viewer-external.
[15:42]	:	It's way slower and very erratic.
[15:42]	:	I thought they did some improvments over 2.0
[15:42]	:	Not for me.
[15:43]	:	I sure se NO improvement at all. I think it's actually worse.
[15:44]	:	Then there is the :party line" I am getting from Lindens that "Residents want SL to run on Intel embedded graphics and that's what we are working towards."
[15:46]	:	Boroondas, you asked about things that happened in the last few weeks...
[15:47]	:	Oz Linden attached a new sim to the west of here (Hippo Hollow)
[15:47]	:	It's supposed ot be a group-only sandbox and and some parcels for different TPVs, I think
[15:47]	:	yep it a good testing area for open sourcers
[15:48]	:	the group is SL Open Source Contributors
[15:48]	:	the sandbox is set to 4 hours
[15:48]	:	I'm not sure what criteria he used when inviting people to that group
[15:48]	:	i think oz would have to send her an invite
[15:48]	:	possibly a little too exclusive
[15:48]	:	hmm ... yet another group ...
[15:49]	:	wat you talking about im maxed out here
[15:49]	:	It's a group being used for what SL groups were created for: Land Management.
[15:50]	:	They suck as a replacement for IRC.
[15:50]	:	SL groups weren't created for a single purpose, that's why there are so many.
[15:51]	:	There are more SL Groups with active members than there are active residents in SL.
[15:51]	:	might want to have oz talk to vektor about copying the holler over to beta so could test issues over there as well
[15:51]	:	That's insanity.
[15:52]	:	You want to grant rights on objects (but not all your objects)? You need a group. You want to grant rights on land? You need a group. You want a communication channel for a specific purpose? Use a group .... if these things were discouplet, LL could save lots of ressources, I think.
[15:52]	:	I am in 16 groups.
[15:53]	:	im maxed out @ 25
[15:53]	:	Yes, the bulk of the weight of groups is in land and object rights management. That is why they are limited to 25.
[15:54]	:	Think for a moment what the simulator has to do when you create or manipulate a prim. It has to dig through your group privlidges.
[15:54]	:	axctualy 26 if you count the none or 'null' group
[15:55]	:	I doubt that one adds any work to the simulators. :-)
[15:55]	:	yeah, it's pretty crazy mixing access managment with chat
[15:55]	:	there's a lot of caching going on, or rezzing a prim would take minutes
[15:56]	:	but that causes a lot of other weirdnesses
[15:56]	:	see you people, I'm off to do some work
[15:57]	:	I have stood two avatars beside each other, one with a single group granting building privlidges, the other with 25 groups, one of which grants building privlidges, and had a build-off. The one in a single group wins every time on a loaded simulator. Very un-scientific, I know, but the only thing I can think of to check against.
[15:57]	:	"JIRA and SLDev Fanclub" seems quite dead. I guess that'll be the one to throw out next.
[15:57]	:	When they moved to a public sandbox, both got the same delays.
[15:58]	:	just got an interesting affet for one snow issue
[15:59]	:	Group chat has an interesting archtitectural issue.
[16:00]	:	It would be nice if groups could be merged (if, say, all owners agree). That'd reduce the number a bit. Abadoning a group in favor of another is unpopular as you have to try to take all the members with you.
[16:00]	:	Seems the message services do a message fork for each and every message.
[16:00]	:	what's a message fork?
[16:01]	:	Kinda like packet replication but up the ISO stack a ways.
[16:01]	:	ew
[16:01]	:	i just switched to full screen from a window and not i have what looks like a negitive
[16:01]	:	What version?
[16:02]	:	You know LL is wanting to eliminate full-screen mode.
[16:02]	:	Snowglobe 2.0.1 (3471) Jul 6 2010 14:57:08 (Snowglobe Test Build) Release Notes You are at 238574.0, 244754.0, 26.6 in Hippotropolis located at sim4038.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.18.81:13002) Second Life Server 1.38.6.204939 Release Notes CPU: Intel Pentium 4 (Unknown model) (2800 MHz) Memory: 2046 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit (Build 7600) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce 8500 GT/PCI/SSE2
[16:02]	:	Immersionists are not where the big-bucks is, I guess.
[16:02]	:	and sorry for the chat blast
[16:03]	:	Yeah, the first line would have been sufficient. ;-)
[16:03]	:	I'm an immersionist, I think, but I prefer windowed.
[16:03]	:	the issue is snow-14
[16:03]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-14 [#SNOW-14] Entering FullScreen makes rendering very dark/black. Relog corrects problem.
[16:03]	:	Yeah, try that with Viewer 2.1 Beta built by LL.
[16:04]	:	would like full screen for some things but normaly im multi tasking and have several windows open
[16:04]	:	I don't use full-screen myself but know people that do.
 
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