Bug triage/2007-08-27/Transcript

[15:02]	Bridie Linden: 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Monday_Agenda
[15:02]	Elbereth Witte: 	success!
[15:02]	Aric Linden: 	/anyone attend SLCC?
[15:02]	Aric Linden: 	heya Soft!
[15:02]	Soft Linden salutes! 	Soft Linden salutes!
[15:02]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Not I, too broke
[15:02]	Daedalus Young: 	hi
[15:02]	Bridie Linden: 	Howdy Soft!
[15:02]	Soft Linden: 	Hey hey :)
[15:02]	Aric Linden: 	/grins at Ryozu. you and me both.
[15:03]	WarKirby Magojiro is in the uk. too far 	WarKirby Magojiro is in the uk. too far
[15:03]	Daedalus Young is in The Netherlands. even further 	Daedalus Young is in The Netherlands. even further
[15:03]	Ryozu Kojima wonders what a horde of Giraffe headed Lindens would look like 	Ryozu Kojima wonders what a horde of Giraffe headed Lindens would look like
[15:03]	Tree Kyomoon: 	I was there in SL form
[15:03]	WarKirby Magojiro wonders what a linden in a hippo suit would look like 	WarKirby Magojiro wonders what a linden in a hippo suit would look like
[15:03]	Aric Linden: 	How was it?
[15:03]	Wyn Galbraith was there partly in SL form ;) 	Wyn Galbraith was there partly in SL form ;)
[15:04]	Elbereth Witte: 	I was just getting used to wondercing what a linden looked like at all
[15:04]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Well, what am I saying totally in SL form.
[15:04]	Tree Kyomoon: 	it was ok the sound wasnt good for a lot of it
[15:04]	Tree Kyomoon: 	and the speakers didnt login to SL so you couldnt see their avatars
[15:04]	WarKirby Magojiro shoots a sideward glance at ryozu 	WarKirby Magojiro shoots a sideward glance at ryozu
[15:04]	Aric Linden: 	Maybe we should start. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/
[15:05]	Bridie Linden: 	Resized Flexible Prims Render Improperly
[15:05]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	The urler doesn't listen on ch0, for the purpose of preventing lag
[15:05]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	use ch 555 with the issue
[15:06]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	: /555
[15:06]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	it listens to any linden
[15:06]	Bridie Linden: 	Hey Saijanai - we just started
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I think I've seen that with some of Khamon's trees.
[15:06]	Aric Linden: 	This looks worth importing to me.
[15:06]	Wyn Galbraith didn't think much about it since she thought it was lag induced. 	Wyn Galbraith didn't think much about it since she thought it was lag induced.
[15:06]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	Yeps
[15:07]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	this is definitely a notorious issue
[15:07]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I added a comment
[15:07]	Elbereth Witte: 	lag induced bugs are still bugs
[15:07]	Aric Linden: 	I saw.
[15:07]	Bridie Linden: 	It sounded familiar but I haven't found a dupe yet
[15:07]	Bridie Linden: 	I'll import
[15:07]	Aric Linden: 	Well, lag induced bugs are harder to fix.
[15:07]	Aric Linden: 	thanks Bridie
[15:07]	Elbereth Witte: 	that makes tons of sense
[15:07]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Sai, wow, that set text is insane
[15:07]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Not if it's just timing.
[15:07]	Soft Linden: 	I'm going to add a note asking for a script example though
[15:08]	Aric Linden: 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/ is next
[15:08]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Khamon's current trees resize.
[15:08]	Bridie Linden: 	llGetBoundingBox is off and getting worse
[15:09]	WarKirby Magojiro commented on several issues on the agenda ahead of time 	WarKirby Magojiro commented on several issues on the agenda ahead of time
[15:09]	Aric Linden: 	/grins at Warkirby
[15:09]	Aric Linden: 	Thanks!
[15:09]	WarKirby Magojiro notices aric isn't using the urler 	WarKirby Magojiro notices aric isn't using the urler
[15:09]	Bridie Linden: 	Import?
[15:10]	Soft Linden: 	That .bmp is big. I reckon we're hammering the snot out of the pjira server if we're all trying to see it. :)
[15:10]	Aric Linden: 	Aric is too lazy
[15:10]	Aric Linden: 	Would step by step repro instructions be useful here?
[15:10]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Yeah
[15:10]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I'd say so, yes
[15:11]	Bridie Linden: 	Resolve, 'needs more info' and ask for repro steps then?
[15:11]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	seems good
[15:11]	Aric Linden: 	seems so to me as well.
[15:11]	Soft Linden: 	Yes. Especially since he's saying he had trouble reproducing it himself the once.
[15:11]	Aric Linden: 	nods at Soft.
[15:11]	Wyn Galbraith notes someone here likes to stick their neck out. 	Wyn Galbraith notes someone here likes to stick their neck out.
[15:12]	Bridie Linden: 	Done.
[15:12]	Aric Linden: 	What do you mean, Wyn?
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Oh nothing, guess I was seeing things.
[15:12]	Ryozu Kojima points at self. 	Ryozu Kojima points at self.
[15:12]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Oh not there it is again!
[15:12]	Tree Kyomoon: 	thats a pencil neck all right
[15:12]	Elbereth Witte: 	there *IS*( an avatar with a long neck here, not all THAT subtle really
[15:13]	Soft Linden: 	Hey hey :)
[15:13]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	next on the agenda is
[15:13]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	If aric is too lazy, mind if I take over setting the urler ?
[15:14]	Soft Linden: 	Go for it :)
[15:14]	Bridie Linden: 	Looks like we have an internal one for this, Lindens: SL-26084
[15:14]	Aric Linden: 	knock yourself out Warkirby
[15:14]	Bridie Linden: 	Shall I link 'em up?
[15:14]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	This one is a highly annoying issue
[15:14]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	but somewhat complex, I think
[15:14]	Aric Linden: 	Bridie, yes, but I'm wondering how much effort this is worth, since Mono is tracking
[15:14]	Elbereth Witte: 	this one probably would have been done by now if it were easy, maybe when mono hits?
[15:15]	Aric Linden: 	Soft?
[15:15]	Strife Onizuka: 	is impossible to fix short of adopting Mono
[15:15]	Aric Linden: 	any thoughts on this, Soft?
[15:15]	Strife Onizuka: 	the underlieing issue with116, is memory fragmentation
[15:15]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	Resolve as fixed internally, with an explanatory comment
[15:15]	Soft Linden: 	I'm inclined to go with the comments. If an OSS contributor wants to work on it it would be good, but since mono deprecates this, it wouldn't be a good use of Linden engineering
[15:15]	Elbereth Witte: 	is it in fact, fikxed internally, with regards to mono?
[15:16]	Soft Linden: 	I'll make a note on the internal issue to ensure it really is fixed in mono
[15:16]	Bridie Linden: 	It's not marked as fixed as yet
[15:16]	Bridie Linden: 	Good, thx soft
[15:16]	Strife Onizuka: 	mono allocates the script memory dynamicaly
[15:16]	Aric Linden: 	Cool. Thanks folks
[15:16]	Elbereth Witte: 	so does the interpreter, it just doesn't seem to let go :-)
[15:16]	Soft Linden: 	Sure, but the LSL will still have a cap - need to avoid storing ginormous data in simstates or packing it with region crossings.
[15:16]	Strife Onizuka: 	there still may be issues with the GC but thats another issue
[15:16]	Strife Onizuka nods 	Strife Onizuka nods
[15:17]	Aric Linden: 	let's move on.
[15:17]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	
[15:18]	Strife Onizuka: 	(in LSO the memory is allocated at compile time and because the VM doesn't track types of allocated memory it can't move memory around to defragment it, so llGetFreeMemory must return available unfragmented memory)
[15:18]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Not much info there.
[15:19]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	sounds like something worth working on
[15:19]	Aric Linden: 	in 121, Wyn?
[15:19]	Aric Linden: 	I can't tell if it's a nested permissions problem or something else.
[15:19]	Wyn Galbraith nods and is reading on down. 	Wyn Galbraith nods and is reading on down.
[15:19]	Soft Linden: 	If is valid, then that's pretty big. It would let people screw up builds for stores/clubs that invite patrons to the 'everyone' role and reuse that group for land ownership.
[15:19]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	If their role doesn't allow them, they shouldn't be able to do it
[15:20]	Soft Linden: 	Should definitely import and test this
[15:20]	WarKirby Magojiro agrees with soft 	WarKirby Magojiro agrees with soft
[15:20]	Aric Linden: 	ok
[15:20]	Ryozu Kojima: 	That's a pretty major issue on a lot of fronts
[15:20]	Bridie Linden: 	Ok, importing now!
[15:20]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	is next
[15:21]	Aric Linden: 	I think we should just import this one.
[15:21]	Soft Linden: 	That would be really easy to add.
[15:21]	Aric Linden: 	yep
[15:21]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Just a new constant BLANK_TEXTURE
[15:21]	Aric Linden: 	and consistency counts
[15:21]	Strife Onizuka: 	this would be really easy, just add a few new constants
[15:21]	Soft Linden: 	And plywood, yeah.
[15:21]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	And DEFAULT_TEXTURE
[15:21]	Bridie Linden nods 	Bridie Linden nods
[15:21]	Elbereth Witte: 	hmm, this is a bit of a downhill thing
[15:21]	Aric Linden: 	that was easy
[15:21]	Aric Linden: 	In what way, Elbereth?
[15:21]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	very simple to fix, I reckon
[15:21]	Strife Onizuka: 	it should be considered that the default textures are client side configurable
[15:22]	Elbereth Witte: 	how many texture contsants will you limit yourselves to :-)
[15:22]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	it would be useful to have a TRANSPARENT_TEXTURE too
[15:22]	Strife Onizuka: 	@WarKirby: omg yes please
[15:22]	Soft Linden: 	If you're in script, you can already set alpha to 0. :)
[15:22]	Tree Kyomoon: 	would be good to fix the invisiprim
[15:22]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Instead of having a million and one people uploading their own? heh, never =P
[15:22]	Elbereth Witte: 	flooding the constants might get annoying to people browsing it
[15:22]	Tree Kyomoon: 	or just make it so avatars can have transparent textures for skin
[15:22]	Soft Linden: 	But yeah - totallyclear should go in the default library textures.
[15:22]	Strife Onizuka: 	the constants area already flooded
[15:22]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	That's a different, but valid issue, tree
[15:23]	Strife Onizuka: 	i suggest changing it to be TEXTURE_DEFAULT
[15:23]	Wyn Galbraith: 	It should only because there are a zillion copies out there.
[15:23]	Tree Kyomoon: 	should I add it to jira?
[15:23]	Ryozu Kojima: 	TEXTURE_BLANK
[15:23]	Strife Onizuka: 	TEXTURE_TRANSPARENT and TEXTURE_BLANK
[15:23]	Strife Onizuka: 	yep
[15:23]	Elbereth Witte: 	well, more so I mean, when theres a fire, do you start setting more?
[15:23]	Soft Linden: 	Sure, go for it Tree
[15:23]	Strife Onizuka: 	so that they are sorted together
[15:23]	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Strife. 	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Strife.
[15:23]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	agreed, strife
[15:23]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	three new texture constants
[15:23]	Soft Linden: 	Do me a favor and add those as a comment on the pJIRA?
[15:23]	Aric Linden: 	Elbereth, that's a context call.
[15:23]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I will
[15:23]	Strife Onizuka: 	sure
[15:23]	Elbereth Witte: 	true
[15:24]	Aric Linden: 	It's hard to make general rules about such things
[15:24]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	done
[15:24]	Elbereth Witte: 	I just like to be the cautious one, I've seen alot of uncautious things catch fires in the past in SL
[15:24]	Strife Onizuka: 	it's easy to make general rules, it's hard to keep them from driving people nuts :p
[15:24]	Wyn Galbraith: 	It would make a lot of things easier for new people as well.
[15:24]	Aric Linden: 	And the issue here, I think, is consistency between language and inventory
[15:24]	Soft Linden: 	What's next?
[15:25]	Aric Linden: 	
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	
[15:25]	Aric Linden: 	Jinx
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	might as well delete the smaller urler.
[15:25]	Wyn Galbraith hasn't seen this one. 	Wyn Galbraith hasn't seen this one.
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I can operate this one, and it automatically listens to all lindens
[15:26]	Second Life: 	Your object 'Jira URL-er - v1.1' has been returned to your inventory lost and found folder by Soft Linden from parcel 'Linden Open Source Project HQ' at Hippotropolis 243.163, 13.6267 due to parcel owner return.
[15:26]	WarKirby Magojiro checks sukhareva 	WarKirby Magojiro checks sukhareva
[15:26]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	it has a texture for me..
[15:26]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Same here.
[15:26]	Dale Glass: 	here too
[15:26]	Ryozu Kojima: 	On the other hand, what is the stance on estates showing up on the map after a certain zoom level?
[15:27]	Strife Onizuka: 	this one comes and goes
[15:27]	Wyn Galbraith automatically listens to Lindens :) 	Wyn Galbraith automatically listens to Lindens :)
[15:27]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	has anyone observed this issue ?
[15:27]	Aric Linden: 	Ryozu, I don't think we've got an internal standard on this.
[15:27]	Daedalus Young: 	no, only when grid is having problems
[15:27]	Soft Linden: 	The ones listed are updated.
[15:27]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	arg
[15:27]	Tree Kyomoon: 	issue is now transparent skins for avatars :)
[15:27]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	autoreturn
[15:27]	Ryozu Kojima: 	I'd love to be able to see them all zoomed out all the way, but that's me
[15:28]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	can that be disabled, rob ?
[15:28]	Bridie Linden: 	Resolve, 'can't repro'?
[15:28]	Strife Onizuka: 	i have obsurved this issue but not in a months time
[15:28]	Aric Linden: 	nods at bridie
[15:28]	Strife Onizuka: 	atleast
[15:28]	Daedalus Young: 	you can see on slurl.com now though ;)
[15:28]	Strife Onizuka: 	so can't repro is good
[15:28]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Can't repro
[15:28]	Aric Linden: 	let's move on
[15:28]	Aric Linden: 	Sad that there's no patches this week
[15:29]	Dale Glass: 	SL patches?
[15:29]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	is up next
[15:29]	Dale Glass: 	working on it :-)
[15:29]	Aric Linden: 	cool, dale.
[15:29]	Dale Glass: 	But most of my stuff isn't ready for inclusion yet
[15:29]	Soft Linden: 	Dale's got a pretty cool one coming that I could've used this weekend :>
[15:29]	Aric Linden: 	Oh?
[15:30]	Dale Glass: 	Soft, it seems I just got it fully working. So will be out soon
[15:30]	Dale Glass: 	I patched the IM code
[15:30]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Weird bug, never seen it
[15:30]	Soft Linden: 	Oof - the multiple lost-and-found
[15:30]	Strife Onizuka: 	is a long standing inventory problem, i haven't seen it in years.
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oh
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	this happened to me once
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	relogging fixed it, though
[15:30]	Dale Glass: 	two changes: Show owner of speaking objects, and show location of people IMing me
[15:30]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I've never seen that one.
[15:30]	Strife Onizuka: 	typicaly a user has to contact tech support to get a linden to fix thier inventory
[15:30]	Soft Linden: 	I know this one exists internally. I think one of the Blacklighters already fixed the cause, but residents still need to ask LL to fix it.
[15:30]	Ryozu Kojima just finds it funny that Lost and Found folder has a UUID of NULL_KEY	Ryozu Kojima just finds it funny that Lost and Found folder has a UUID of NULL_KEY
[15:30]	Wyn Galbraith: 	LOL
[15:30]	Bridie Linden: 	Looking for it now Soft...
[15:31]	Strife Onizuka: 	other folders beside it use to duplicate
[15:31]	Strife Onizuka: 	like the trash folder
[15:31]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	what to do with this issue, then ?
[15:31]	Strife Onizuka: 	(i had it happen to me in may 2004, so i'm speaking from experience)
[15:32]	Bridie Linden: 	
[15:32]	Bridie Linden: 	dupe of 567 I think
[15:32]	Aric Linden: 	agreed
[15:32]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	what the heck.jpg :)
[15:32]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Ah, yep, dupe
[15:33]	Aric Linden: 	shall we move on?
[15:33]	Ryozu Kojima nods. 	Ryozu Kojima nods.
[15:33]	Bridie Linden nods 	Bridie Linden nods
[15:33]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	
[15:34]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	there's a script example
[15:34]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I have duplicate folders called Object, but that's from unpacking stuff.
[15:34]	Elbereth Witte: 	normal setrot caused drift last I saw
[15:34]	Soft Linden: 	Bridie - I think it was at least related to SL-36851 (the duplicate lost and found)
[15:34]	Object: Hello, Avatar! 	Object: Hello, Avatar!
[15:34]	WarKirby Magojiro tests it 	WarKirby Magojiro tests it
[15:34]	Strife Onizuka: 	give me a min to read through the test script on 88, i'm trying to see if the drift is due to scripter error
[15:35]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	umm
[15:35]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	it's showing perfect results
[15:35]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	no drifting
[15:35]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Indeed
[15:35]	Ryozu Kojima: 	I'm being spammed by no drift, lol
[15:35]	Elbereth Witte: 	between two states, repeated
[15:35]	Soft Linden: 	I know with the linked set drift, it was actually worse at higher altitudes - large Z value.
[15:35]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	child prims have issues with rotations though. But that's a known issue with the math that is used on the server side
[15:35]	Elbereth Witte: 	spice it up some, and turn the spam down :-)
[15:35]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I'd say close this as can't repro, unless anyone can ?
[15:36]	Bridie Linden: 	That was my plan, anyone else?
[15:36]	Soft Linden: 	Looked like it might be a precision error, which would get worse with larger numbers.
[15:36]	Ryozu Kojima: 	I'd try to repro it at higher altitudes
[15:36]	Strife Onizuka: 	it will exhibit drift on subprims but thats due to scripter error
[15:36]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	hmm
[15:36]	Elbereth Witte: 	I've seen it at low altitudes
[15:36]	Aric Linden: 	Interesting suggestion Ryozu.
[15:36]	Elbereth Witte: 	but I'm off topic kinda
[15:36]	Soft Linden: 	Might also just try it toward the NE corner (256x256)
[15:36]	Ryozu Kojima: 	That's only 3 digits though, we'd see it happen here probably
[15:37]	Bridie Linden: 	Would you all like to add these comments?
[15:37]	Ryozu Kojima forgets float terminology >_< 	Ryozu Kojima forgets float terminology >_<
[15:37]	Aric Linden: 	Bridie, let's import it and assign it to QA with an annotation about trying it at altitude and NE corner
[15:37]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oki. seems good
[15:37]	Strife Onizuka nods 	Strife Onizuka nods
[15:37]	Elbereth Witte: 	also, PLEASE, do not just shift between two predefined rotations, thats a bad test
[15:38]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	
[15:38]	Soft Linden: 	If you can write up a better test script, please please include it!
[15:38]	Elbereth Witte: 	if I remember, quite an onslaught of issues here
[15:38]	Elbereth Witte: 	and I have other projects :-)
[15:38]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	incomplete hud rendering
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I experience this ever single day
[15:39]	Soft Linden: 	I know there's another issue for the missing llSetText on child prims
[15:39]	Soft Linden: 	per WarKirby's comment in the pJIRA
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	most of the time, after teleporting, or logging in
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	the hud renders only partially
[15:39]	Elbereth Witte: 	sim transition sometimes triggers child prim loss for me
[15:39]	Aric Linden: 	Can you write up a repro?
[15:39]	Aric Linden: 	and maybe provide a hud for testing?
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I have a hud which it happens to constantly
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I canprovide that
[15:39]	Aric Linden: 	That would help a lot.
[15:39]	Aric Linden: 	Excellent.
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	to you now ?
[15:39]	Soft Linden: 	Pass me a copy, WarKirby? I'll post the asset ID for Lindens
[15:40]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oki
[15:40]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	llGodLikeRezObject :)
[15:40]	Aric Linden: 	thanks Soft
[15:40]	Soft Linden thumbsup! 	Soft Linden thumbsup!
[15:40]	Aric Linden: 	lol
[15:41]	Soft Linden: 	Actually we have a different more devious trick we use. But same concept!
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	
[15:41]	Soft Linden: 	(If I told you, I'd have to kill you)
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	why do yo need a trick ?
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	you're essentially god
[15:41]	Soft Linden: 	I'm a god who gets my account audited if I misbehave. Some god!
[15:41]	Wyn Galbraith loves devious tricks. 	Wyn Galbraith loves devious tricks.
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro smiles 	WarKirby Magojiro smiles
[15:42]	Aric Linden: 	falls over laughing
[15:42]	Elbereth Witte: 	that which is above us may seem as magic, taht which is an act of magic may be seen as a trick
[15:42]	Wyn Galbraith calls it more than one way to skin a cat. 	Wyn Galbraith calls it more than one way to skin a cat.
[15:42]	Soft Linden: 	Is anyone seeing this in a current build?
[15:42]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Sorry cat lovers ;)
[15:42]	Bridie Linden: 	sorry backing up -- is a dupe of ?
[15:42]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	we're well past the beta now
[15:42]	WarKirby Magojiro checks 	WarKirby Magojiro checks
[15:42]	Aric Linden: 	I know that 406 has been fixed
[15:42]	Soft Linden: 	cooool
[15:43]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	no
[15:43]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	Ithink is a seperate issue
[15:43]	Soft Linden: 	We need a fixed-on-your-own-darn-desktop resolution.
[15:43]	Soft Linden: 	:)
[15:43]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	something which should be looked at later
[15:43]	Aric Linden: 	I think invisible avs might still be possible in Windlight but that's another issue
[15:44]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	close 406 as fixed?
[15:44]	Tree Kyomoon: 	without the invisiprim aric?
[15:44]	Aric Linden: 	grins at Tree and nods
[15:44]	Bridie Linden: 	I'm sorry - I was chasing down dupes...
[15:44]	Tree Kyomoon doesnt like invisiprims, its a lame hack 	Tree Kyomoon doesnt like invisiprims, its a lame hack
[15:44]	Aric Linden: 	np bridie
[15:44]	Elbereth Witte: 	can't reproduce sounds more friendly to the poor victim than fixed
[15:44]	Bridie Linden: 	should be "needs more info"?
[15:45]	Tree Kyomoon smiles at aric 	Tree Kyomoon smiles at aric
[15:45]	WarKirby Magojiro checks 395 	WarKirby Magojiro checks 395
[15:45]	Aric Linden: 	Nope. 395 should be imported
[15:45]	Bridie Linden: 	KK
[15:45]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	yes. import
[15:45]	Aric Linden: 	Soft has a hud for repro thoughtfully provided by Warkirby
[15:45]	Aric Linden: 	Note that Soft has said hud.
[15:45]	Aric Linden: 	por favor
[15:46]	Soft Linden: 	Ya. It's in my "to do" folder, renamed with the JIRA. Will post the asset ID after import.
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oh, I forgot to set the perms
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	do you need it full perms?
[15:46]	Soft Linden: 	If I have your permission, I'll make it permissive for Lindens.
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	sure
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	that works
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	is next
[15:47]	Bridie Linden: 	should be resolved as fixed?
[15:47]	Aric Linden: 	And don't forget, Lindens are gods who are being watched
[15:47]	Daedalus Young: 	I'd like to set texture perms on upload, always forget them
[15:47]	Aric Linden: 	nods at Bridie
[15:47]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	yes
[15:47]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	it should
[15:47]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	call 406 fixed.
[15:47]	Tree Kyomoon agrees with Daedalus 	Tree Kyomoon agrees with Daedalus
[15:47]	Wyn Galbraith: 	One ring to bind them...
[15:47]	Aric Linden: 	I don't think 417 is a bug
[15:48]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Me neither, it's just a result of baking a texture, then loading the baked texture
[15:48]	Daedalus Young: 	it's explained in the comments
[15:48]	Elbereth Witte: 	at a glance it reads like standard operating procedure
[15:48]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	The comment seems to indicate this isn't a bug
[15:48]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	anyone disagree ?
[15:48]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I've seen that happen.
[15:48]	Elbereth Witte: 	maybe the second run could wait for full rez to swap?
[15:48]	Wyn Galbraith: 	I don't think it's a bug.
[15:48]	Bridie Linden: 	is it a feature request?
[15:49]	Daedalus Young: 	no, a misunderstanding of how things work
[15:49]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	no, it's reported as a bug that skins load twice
[15:49]	Aric Linden: 	I agree with Daedalus
[15:49]	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Daedalus. 	Wyn Galbraith agrees with Daedalus.
[15:49]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	close as misfiled?
[15:49]	Soft Linden: 	Iiiiiiiiiiiit's a tough call... it's a lot like the discussion about caching textures you're uploading. It would speed things up, but it also wouldn't let you see if your upload had failed on the server side.
[15:49]	Soft Linden: 	Right now when you stay blurry, you go ahead and rebake (which is suboptimal) which makes you correct the asset upload.
[15:49]	Aric Linden: 	but in a world of trying to prioritize work, i wouldn't work this.
[15:49]	Soft Linden: 	The real bug is more likely that rebakes are still a manual process when things fall apart.
[15:50]	Aric Linden: 	now that's a bug
[15:50]	Soft Linden: 	Hence seeing a clear self, then going blurry and staying blurry.
[15:50]	Soft Linden: 	Does that one already exists in JIRA/
[15:50]	Soft Linden: 	?
[15:50]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	the skins remaining blurry?
[15:50]	Soft Linden: 	Yeah.
[15:51]	WarKirby Magojiro looks 	WarKirby Magojiro looks
[15:51]	Daedalus Young: 	I've seen that happening with other textures too
[15:51]	Daedalus Young: 	also the world map
[15:51]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I believe so..
[15:51]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/
[15:51]	Soft Linden: 	If it doesn't, it should be made and attached to that parent ruthing/bad character rendering umbrella bug.
[15:51]	Daedalus Young: 	textures don't fully load, only upon second download attempt
[15:51]	Soft Linden: 	is about all textures, not just the self character texture.
[15:52]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Hasn't this one been up before, I recognize the image.
[15:52]	Bridie Linden: 	Yes, it's been imported
[15:52]	Bridie Linden: 	So what to do with 417?
[15:52]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I'd say close as misfiled
[15:52]	Aric Linden: 	Agreed. Let's move along
[15:53]	Daedalus Young: 	at least it is not related to non-loading textures
[15:53]	WarKirby Magojiro closes it 	WarKirby Magojiro closes it
[15:53]	Aric Linden: 	
[15:53]	Bridie Linden: 	Thx WarKirby
[15:53]	Daedalus Young: 	and Wyn, you're right about 1250, it's been in another triage: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/2007-07-23
[15:54]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	hmm
[15:54]	Wyn Galbraith nods. 	Wyn Galbraith nods.
[15:54]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	that's one table breaking comment
[15:54]	Soft Linden: 	should be imported, yeah. That could cause problems if you start work on a project on a Mac, then go to work on a PC. You could render your script unrunnable until you get back to the Mac.
[15:54]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	maybe jira ought to wrap lines in comments ?
[15:54]	Aric Linden: 	I'm wondering if this is still a problem ()
[15:54]	Tree Kyomoon wishes the mac had better low level character handling 	Tree Kyomoon wishes the mac had better low level character handling
[15:55]	Elbereth Witte: 	maybe... :)
[15:55]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	??? macs have better low-level char handling than any other platform
[15:55]	Aric Linden: 	Ok. I trust Soft. Let's import it
[15:55]	Soft Linden: 	If you want to assign it to me to test, I can. Would just take 5 min to see if it's a problem, and I'll close it or pass it back to the pool if it's legit.
[15:55]	Aric Linden: 	wishes to avoid platform religious debates
[15:56]	Bridie Linden: 	Importing now...
[15:56]	Daedalus Young: 	I love my Mac
[15:56]	Saijanai Kuhn: 	Apple invented GX typography. Adobe and MS tried to get around patent issues by inventing OpenType
[15:56]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	is next
[15:56]	Aric Linden: 	we all know NeXT is best
[15:56]	Elbereth Witte: 	Amiga owns all, end of discussion :-)
[15:56]	Aric Linden: 	falls over laughing
[15:56]	Aric Linden: 	amiga dos rocked
[15:56]	Elbereth Witte: 	hideous name
[15:56]	Aric Linden: 	but NeXT is best
[15:56]	Saijanai Kuhn worked for one of the guys that helped write AmigaDOS 1.0 	Saijanai Kuhn worked for one of the guys that helped write AmigaDOS 1.0
[15:56]	Raytheon Raymaker: 	Aric: you just liked the cube
[15:57]	Daedalus Young: 	is still unclear to me what is meant
[15:57]	Soft Linden replaces the Windlight sky with copperbars 	Soft Linden replaces the Windlight sky with copperbars
[15:57]	Aric Linden: 	still has his amigi genlock
[15:57]	Elbereth Witte: 	Amigas console actually wasn't all that great
[15:57]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	what does dither mean, exactly ?
[15:57]	Dale Glass: 	Hmm, about flexis. Couldn't there be some parameter to make it possible for them to update faster?
[15:57]	Dale Glass: 	It seems the more of them there are, the slower it goes
[15:57]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I'm going to vote close as "Needs more info"
[15:57]	Soft Linden: 	needs more info. Dither?
[15:57]	Soft Linden: 	Ya.
[15:57]	Dale Glass: 	definitely needs more info yeah
[15:58]	Bridie Linden: 	I'm with WarKirby
[15:58]	WarKirby Magojiro closes 	WarKirby Magojiro closes
[15:58]	Daedalus Young: 	resolve
[15:58]	Bridie Linden: 	WarKirby - don't close, resolve, ok?
[15:58]	Aric Linden: 	yeah, my mohawk dithers
[15:58]	Aric Linden: 	laughs
[15:58]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	is next
[15:58]	Bridie Linden: 	Aric is on fire today! :)
[15:58]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oh, understood, sorry
[15:58]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Aric is always on fire.
[15:58]	Bridie Linden: 	Last one?
[15:58]	Elbereth Witte: 	reminds me of the recent partial object deletion in world bug, which I haven't seen recently
[15:58]	Aric Linden: 	pats himself down
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Is this similar to the alpha problem?
[15:59]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	this sounds creepy
[15:59]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Where you get that fluttering between textures.
[15:59]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	Ims from beyong the trashcan
[15:59]	Ryozu Kojima chuckles. 	Ryozu Kojima chuckles.
[16:00]	Daedalus Young: 	the haunted asset server
[16:00]	Soft Linden: 	These objects really should include a region and location in IM emails. We already do that with llHttp stuff. It's tough to verify that the object is really deleted, and not accidentally - say - shift-copied.
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Is that the sound we're hearing? Cause it was at the float too.
[16:00]	Elbereth Witte: 	seems more like theres a limbo they get caught in
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith thought it was her and has been turning things on and off. 	Wyn Galbraith thought it was her and has been turning things on and off.
[16:00]	Aric Linden: 	I wonder if hijacking the user would help debug the problem?
[16:00]	Aric Linden: 	Soft?
[16:00]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Just figured out it's in world.
[16:01]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	You ought to ask him before that, I think
[16:01]	Dale Glass: 	I like the region in email thing
[16:01]	Soft Linden: 	If it's sending those while logged in too, Dale's tool would help :>
[16:01]	Aric Linden: 	ahh.
[16:01]	Daedalus Young: 	I hear a low rumble, Wyn, think it's the wind
[16:01]	Dale Glass: 	not 100% perfect though
[16:01]	Wyn Galbraith: 	This isn't the wind, it's this moan.
[16:02]	Daedalus Young: 	in the Ambient sound slider
[16:02]	Dale Glass: 	I need to maintain a sim DB
[16:02]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	region name should be in email
[16:02]	Aric Linden: 	I'm sort of torn about importing without a repro
[16:02]	Bridie Linden: 	So, what to do with ?
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith: 	Maybe it is me.
[16:02]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I'd say ask simon if it's alright to use his account for testing
[16:02]	Ryozu Kojima shrugs. 	Ryozu Kojima shrugs.
[16:02]	Aric Linden: 	I guess we could go check logs but I don't know if mail shows up in logs
[16:02]	Wyn Galbraith relogs. 	Wyn Galbraith relogs.
[16:02]	Soft Linden: 	For , it does at least indicate the simulator in the message header. Asking him to contact support with a just-sent email would help. They can get a dev to look at it.
[16:02]	Ryozu Kojima: 	Ask him for the UUID the object is sending
[16:03]	Ryozu Kojima: 	As
[16:03]	Soft Linden: 	Should just be able to grep the log on that machine for the object name.
[16:03]	Soft Linden: 	From there, you can work backward to the task ID, etc.
[16:03]	clock second hand: Hello, Avatar! 	clock second hand: Hello, Avatar!
[16:03]	Turtle: Hello, Avatar! 	Turtle: Hello, Avatar!
[16:03]	Bridie Linden: 	Soft, would you mind commenting?
[16:03]	Soft Linden: 	Sure, will do
[16:03]	Aric Linden: 	Thanks Soft.
[16:03]	Bridie Linden: 	Thx!
[16:03]	Aric Linden: 	Thanks to all who showed up to help.
[16:03]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	are we stopping ?
[16:03]	Ryozu Kojima: 	It's 4pm
[16:04]	Bridie Linden: 	Thanks all!
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	oh
[16:04]	Aric Linden: 	Yep. Thanks for driving Warkirby
[16:04]	Daedalus Young: 	it's been fun, as usual
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro never noticed 	WarKirby Magojiro never noticed
[16:04]	Elbereth Witte: 	like gods need a rest period or something :-)
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	:)
[16:04]	Soft Linden: 	And then it can be closed as needs more info - I'll do that.
[16:04]	Raytheon Raymaker: 	Thanks for letting a n00b sit in. Immersion helps me understand issues.
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro: 	I hope I've been helpful
[16:04]	Aric Linden: 	too much fun, eh.
[16:04]	Aric Linden: 	Glad to have you Raytheon