Pathfinding in Second Life/2012-05-31

==Attendees List==
*any1 Gynoid (any1.gynoid)
*blue marker (blue.marker)
*Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
*Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
*Horatio (horatio)
*Ima Mechanique (ima.mechanique)
*Jira Helper (jira.helper)
*Jonathan Yap (jonathan.yap)
*Lorca Linden (lorca.linden)
*M√¶stro Linden (maestro.linden)
*Motor Loon (motor.loon)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Red Box (red.box)
*Rex Cronon (rex.cronon)
*Sandry Logan (sandry.logan)
*Second Life (second.life)
*Shimmering Rift (shimmering.rift)
*And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
*TheBlack Box (theblack.box)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Thursday May 31, 2012==
[16:01]	Sandry Logan 	horatio come sit
[16:01]	Lorca Linden 	hey all
[16:02]	Falcon Linden 	so please report if that happens again and include the time and region
[16:02]	Rex Cronon 	hi lorca
[16:02]	TheBlack Box 	heya
[16:02]	Lorca Linden 	so not too much officially on the agenda for this week
[16:02]	Lorca Linden 	my main announcements are :
[16:02]	Lorca Linden 	1) we did a server code roll this morning that looks pretty stable so far
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	that means that 2) we will be moving over the next bunch of about 20 resident regions to the pathfinding channel tomorrow
[16:03]	Dahlia Trimble 	you rolled to agni?
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	we did
[16:03]	Dahlia Trimble 	oh maybe my robots are fixed then
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	this morning
[16:03]	Lorca Linden 	my other announcement is that we have decided to impliment automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode for pathfinding
[16:04]	Lorca Linden 	that is the last major feature planned before release
[16:04]	TheBlack Box 	are PF-sims still all in debug-mode ? after Lorca turned Pathtest4 to non-debug mode it was offline all week
[16:04]	Lorca Linden 	we believe that will simplify the builder workflow, esp on the mainland since people will not have access to the estate manager tools for pathfinding
[16:04]	M√¶stro Linden 	the non-debug build had a crasher
[16:04]	M√¶stro Linden 	well, any region would crash
[16:04]	M√¶stro Linden 	so that's why pathtest4 was offline
[16:04]	M√¶stro Linden 	because it was crashed :)
[16:04]	Nal 	automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode?
[16:05]	TheBlack Box 	:) i feel guilty
[16:05]	Lorca Linden 	that is correct, nalates
[16:05]	Motor Loon 	automatic transitioning into the edit / unfrozen mode?
[16:05]	Jonathan Yap 	Are you asking what that is all about?
[16:05]	Lorca Linden 	we will detect when a resident takes an action that could change the navmesh
[16:05]	Lorca Linden 	and automatically transition them into edit / unfrozen mode
[16:05]	Falcon Linden 	All we know so far is that you won't need to explicitly "unfreeze" in order to modify navmeshy objects
[16:06]	Motor Loon 	aha
[16:06]	M√¶stro Linden 	Falcon, that will only apply to viewer actions, right?
[16:06]	Lorca Linden 	you will be able to manually trigger a nav-mesh regen with the pathfinding UI tools, and one will happen automatically after a set amount of time with no nav-mesh changing action. The time window is TBD
[16:06]	Falcon Linden 	maestro: correct
[16:06]	M√¶stro Linden 	as in, if my LSL script tries to change the shape of a navmeshy object, it'll still fail
[16:06]	M√¶stro Linden 	when i'm frozen, at least
[16:06]	Falcon Linden 	oh, actually, now that I think about it, we know even a little less
[16:06]	Falcon Linden 	We're going to punt the rest of the conversation on modes until next user group
[16:06]	Falcon Linden 	Suffice it to say, we're working on making it less invasive
[16:07]	Motor Loon 	alrighty then
[16:07]	Lorca Linden 	we are still hashing out some of the details so I agree with falcon that now is not the time to get into the weeds on the automatic build mode transition
[16:07]	Nal 	So, any builder working in an area, say on a house, will be able to affect Navmesh?
[16:07]	Dahlia Trimble 	just checked my robot on agni, seems to be working properly now
[16:07]	Falcon Linden 	Nal: That's true already
[16:07]	Rex Cronon 	in what way is it invasive?
[16:07]	Lorca Linden 	but this change should alleviate alot of the concerns people have been posting on blogs about pathfinding's effect on mainland regions / large exisitng builds
[16:08]	Lorca Linden 	ok that topic is now closed for this user group ;)
[16:08]	Motor Loon 	hehe
[16:08]	Motor Loon 	suspects that may have to be said a few more times
[16:08]	Dahlia Trimble 	so non-pathfinding TPV viewers should be able to edit objects?
[16:08]	Falcon Linden 	We have not determined how that will work yet
[16:09]	Falcon Linden 	Any questions not related to viewer interaction? :)
[16:09]	Nal 	I asked about Havok License in Oz's meeting. Seems that is still in process. But, hoped to be resolved by PF roll... or shortly after.
[16:10]	Motor Loon 	good news
[16:10]	TheBlack Box 	just the debug-mode thing again .. is that solved now ? is there a non-crasher sim with PF and without dbug-mode available for testing ?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden 	the bug has been resolved, yes
[16:11]	TheBlack Box 	i'd like to shoot pf-creatures without crashing the sim :)
[16:11]	TheBlack Box 	kk Pathtest4 ?
[16:11]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: use llCastRay :P
[16:11]	Motor Loon 	castray still has bugs, I had to stop using it on my boats
[16:12]	TheBlack Box 	hehe ... noone sells Castray weapons yet i think :) that one didnt work according to plan afaik :)
[16:12]	Sandry Logan 	is there something i can do to control how close a character gets to its when target using llNavigateTo?
[16:12]	Falcon Linden 	motor: really? I haven't seen any jiras about that
[16:12]	Falcon Linden 	sandry: use a different point?
[16:13]	Motor Loon 	I'll see if I can find one...
[16:13]	Falcon Linden 	motor: because the limits are basically disabled on pf regions
[16:13]	Dahlia Trimble 	limits?
[16:13]	TheBlack Box 	castray in general seemed to work well when i tested ... the low resolution on small prims is a bit of a bummer ... but it worked
[16:14]	Sandry Logan 	well, lets say the red box is my pathfinding dog and i want him to get on his bed (the blue square)
[16:14]	Red Box 	near
[16:14]	Red Box 	here
[16:14]	Motor Loon 	oh talking about jiras... can one of you lindens take a quick look at VWR-14674 it suddenly seemed to be a permissions violation when I try to access it
[16:14]	Jira Helper 	Status 499
[16:14]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: low resolution? It uses the physics shape exactly
[16:14]	Motor Loon 	I suspect by accident
[16:14]	Sandry Logan 	it barely gets onto the edge of it
[16:15]	TheBlack Box 	Falcon: small spheres look like crystals to cast ray
[16:15]	Falcon Linden 	ah. Yeah, an object will consider itself at the goal when it's within one character radius, iirc
[16:15]	And all I got was this lousy DN	most ER jiras are closed
[16:15]	Motor Loon 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7603
[16:15]	Jira Helper 	[#SVC-7603] llCastRay fails, when sitting on object that has crossed simborder https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7603
[16:15]	Motor Loon 	that was the one causing me problems atleast...
[16:15]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: something else is wrong there since spheres are always represented as true spheres with correct raycast properties in the engine
[16:15]	Falcon Linden 	motor: shouldn't happen on PF regions since the whole cast ray resource pool system is off
[16:16]	Motor Loon 	I see
[16:16]	Motor Loon 	that going to stay like that for all regions when PF hits full grid?
[16:16]	TheBlack Box 	Falcon: then we found a problem ... i tested that a lot for a llCastRay-based scanner that creates collada-files .... small spheres do absolutly not look like sphere in castray :)
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: that was done intentionally so that you could llNavigateTo and object's position even if it was, e.g., a pole or a box or something
[16:16]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: jirafy
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	Motor: yes
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	Motor: unless we discover it causing problems
[16:17]	Falcon Linden 	but I don't expect that to happen
[16:17]	Motor Loon 	ok
[16:17]	Motor Loon 	good news
[16:17]	Dahlia Trimble 	how small?
[16:17]	TheBlack Box 	hmm ... i might .. kinda busy with other stuff these days .. but i will go into castray again somewhen
[16:17]	M√¶stro Linden 	for SVC-7603, the raycast could be occurring when the script hasnt' crossed into the new region yet
[16:17]	M√¶stro Linden 	so it's currently casting into the void
[16:18]	M√¶stro Linden 	and not hitting anything
[16:18]	M√¶stro Linden 	that should behave better when neighboring regions share collision shapes
[16:18]	Dahlia Trimble 	it would seem a waste to have a very accurate physics shape for small objects
[16:19]	Rex Cronon 	u could scan snowflakes with raycast:)
[16:19]	TheBlack Box 	Dahlia: that depends ... it it is a parametric shere the size wouldnt matter would it ?
[16:19]	Falcon Linden 	dahlia: a sphere is as simple a physics object as you can get
[16:19]	Dahlia Trimble 	agreed
[16:19]	Dahlia Trimble 	its just a point and a radius
[16:19]	Falcon Linden 	almost anything else we turn into a box at very small scales
[16:20]	TheBlack Box 	right ... but that is not what i observed ... will look at it again somewhen soonish and jirafy
[16:21]	Falcon Linden 	Well, if there are no other questions, we can wrap up early and get back to work :)
[16:21]	Lorca Linden 	i have nothing else on the agenda
[16:22]	Dahlia Trimble 	when do we get pathfinding NPCs with animated meshes? o.0
[16:22]	Jonathan Yap 	I have a little question--my pathfinding character goes around about 0.2m above the ground -- should I write a jira for this?
[16:22]	any1 Gynoid 	I was wondering about ... the wierd thing... that happens...
[16:22]	Falcon Linden 	jonathan: no, you should adjust the visible shapes down by 0.2m
[16:22]	any1 Gynoid 	PF characters seem to zoom off to infinity.. .. sometimes...
[16:22]	Falcon Linden 	any1: oh no, not the wierd thing!
[16:22]	Jonathan Yap 	Thanks Falcon
[16:22]	Motor Loon 	lol
[16:22]	any1 Gynoid 	but really don't .. it's just optical illusion..
[16:22]	Falcon Linden 	any1: we'll need to push releasing pathfinding off until at least 2017 to fix /that/ thing!
[16:23]	And all I got was this lousy DN	sounds good to me
[16:23]	Sandry Logan 	is there anywhere we can read about what changes are in new server or viewer releases? (pathfinding as opposed to 'regular' release notes)
[16:23]	And all I got was this lousy DN	will the physics stub be avalibe then sometime 2020?
[16:23]	And all I got was this lousy DN	:P
[16:24]	Lorca Linden 	sandry we will start posting build notes to the wiki
[16:24]	Lorca Linden 	the main pathfinding wiki
[16:24]	Falcon Linden 	sandry: that depends, do you have access to our internal network? :P
[16:24]	Jonathan Yap 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Server_Release_Notes
[16:25]	Motor Loon 	your bird crap alot Mr.box
[16:25]	Sandry Logan 	no, not that i am aware
[16:25]	Falcon Linden 	Lorca: thanks for volunteering to write those up, that's awesome! :)
[16:25]	TheBlack Box 	Motor: yes but the plants will eat it :)
[16:25]	Lorca Linden 	lol
[16:25]	Sandry Logan 	jonathan thank you, are the pathfinding server notes in there too?
[16:25]	Motor Loon 	kinda makes me glad I'm not a plant
[16:25]	Lorca Linden 	and if you all have any neat pathfinding builds to show us
[16:25]	Falcon Linden 	I'll show you the script that will dump all the commit logs and you can parse those 800 or so into a nice pretty doc :)
[16:25]	Lorca Linden 	please do tell!
[16:25]	Falcon Linden 	Yes! We want to see cool pathfinding things!
[16:25]	Falcon Linden 	Lots of things!
[16:26]	Jonathan Yap 	Sandry, I don't think so
[16:26]	TheBlack Box 	shall i puch it a bit ? get a bit of an ecosystem going around us ? :))
[16:26]	TheBlack Box 	dont shoot the brids, thou ,,, that crashes the sim if it is in debug-mode (collsisions)
[16:26]	Jonathan Yap 	For viewer : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Release_Notes
[16:28]	Falcon Linden 	theblack: if shooting the birds still crashes, let us know
[16:28]	Lorca Linden 	before next user group if you want to place some critters / PF objects out for show and tell
[16:28]	Lorca Linden 	that would be awesome
[16:28]	TheBlack Box 	kk ...
[16:28]	Motor Loon 	o.O
[16:28]	Motor Loon 	Falcon on a mission
[16:28]	Dahlia Trimble 	any word on a in-world group for pathfinding?
[16:29]	blue marker 	Distance to red box: 1.066388
[16:29]	TheBlack Box 	falcon: try shotguns for stress-testing
[16:29]	Motor Loon 	birdkilla
[16:29]	Falcon Linden 	I don't have one
[16:29]	Lorca Linden 	no update on that @ this moment, Dahlia
[16:30]	Lorca Linden 	any other questions?
[16:30]	Lorca Linden 	otherwise, I'm going to call this a wrap
[16:33]	Shimmering Rift 	/me emits a burst of static.
[16:33]	Second Life 	Teleport completed from secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/LI%20Devbox%202/133/100/23
[16:33]	TheBlack Box 	sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry
[16:33]	TheBlack Box 	sorry sorry
[16:33]	Lorca Linden 	it's ok ;)
[16:34]	And all I got was this lousy DN	i did have one quick question
[16:34]	TheBlack Box 	ummm ... still crashes the sim ;)
[16:34]	Yuzuru 	Sim crashed?
[16:34]	Lorca Linden 	apprently so mr box
[16:34]	And all I got was this lousy DN	when do you think a [hysics stub will be avalible so we can compile the source?
[16:34]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting TheBlack .
[16:34]	TheBlack Box 	:(
[16:35]	Rex Cronon 	somebody shot the birds?
[16:35]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting Lorca .
[16:35]	TheBlack Box 	shotgun ... yeah
[16:35]	Ima Mechanique 	wow, that crash was so hard, even my mushrooms got sent home
[16:35]	Yuzuru 	Falcon?
[16:35]	Dahlia Trimble 	didi sim crash?
[16:35]	Ima Mechanique 	no need for me to clean up then.
[16:35]	Lorca Linden 	it did
[16:35]	TheBlack Box 	sim got rolled back yeah .. i think that is part of debug-mode (?)
[16:35]	Ima Mechanique 	bye all
[16:35]	Lorca Linden 	bye ima
[16:35]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting Dahlia .
[16:35]	Rex Cronon 	tc ima
[16:36]	Dahlia Trimble 	Hi Horatio, bye Ima :)
[16:36]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting Rex .
[16:36]	And all I got was this lousy DN	did you see my question, lorca?
[16:36]	Rex Cronon 	hi oratio
[16:36]	TheBlack Box 	Horatio need a properly sized capsule
[16:36]	Lorca Linden 	I did, give me one sec tankmaster, checking on that date
[16:37]	And all I got was this lousy DN	ok thx
[16:37]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting Draconis .
[16:37]	Sandry Logan 	he has a problem when he can't get to a location. the parcel that dahlia and rex ae in, he cannot navigate to
[16:37]	Sandry Logan 	horatio come
[16:37]	Sandry Logan 	horatio go theblack sit
[16:37]	Rex Cronon 	who is horation?
[16:37]	Rex Cronon 	the white bear?
[16:38]	Sandry Logan 	yes
[16:38]	TheBlack Box 	sorry again to all ... i would have shot the bird ... a linden told me it would been fixed :)
[16:38]	Horatio 	whispers: Greeting Yuzuru .
[16:38]	Horatio 	whispers: Noticed Rex
[16:38]	Lorca Linden 	OK, i'll have an update for that next user group tank
[16:39]	Rex Cronon 	hey. the lindens said it might be ok to shoot them:)
[16:39]	Lorca Linden 	lol rex
[16:39]	And all I got was this lousy DN	sounds good, thx
[16:39]	TheBlack Box 	:)
[16:39]	Dahlia Trimble 	so shooting them crashed the sim? lol
[16:39]	Rex Cronon 	ok. no shoot the lindens. shoot the birds:0
[16:39]	Lorca Linden 	ok thanks all
[16:39]	Rex Cronon 	:)
[16:39]	Sandry Logan 	horatio explore 50
[16:39]	Lorca Linden 	see you next week!
[16:40]	Rex Cronon 	tc lorca
[16:40]	TheBlack Box 	Dahlia yes ... i have been told that is related to collisions in debug-mode
[16:40]	Lorca Linden 	and please let us know if there are neat builds for us to check out
[16:40]	Sandry Logan 	bye Lorca
[16:40]	Lorca Linden 	we really like to see cool PF areas / critters
[16:40]	TheBlack Box 	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAhrf2MHepY
[16:40]	Lorca Linden 	you can email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com with the SLurl
[16:40]	Lorca Linden 	thanks!
[16:40]	Rex Cronon 	is unatural for asuch a small vear to move so fast
[16:40]	TheBlack Box 	thats a longer video of the evo/eco stuff
[16:41]	Lorca Linden 	very cool, I will definitely watch that
[16:41]	Lorca Linden 	alright I'm out all, thanks!
[16:41]	Rex Cronon 	tc everybody and have a nice day
[16:41]	TheBlack Box 	thanks for the OH
[16:41]	Rex Cronon 	:)
[16:41]	TheBlack Box 	see you
[16:41]	Lorca Linden 	till next time
[16:41]	Dahlia Trimble 	ty lindens :)
[16:41]	TheBlack Box 	and i ll try not to crash the sims here all the time :)
[16:41]	Lorca Linden 	;)
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