Discussion/Archive

== Gif's vs Png's ==
At this point, we already have almost all the skill icons and a large number of item icons uploaded in .png format. There was some brief discussion on this topic, but the only contributions were regarding jpg vs png since screenshots are originally jpeg. If peoeple desire to use a different format across the wiki, there should probably be some further discussion on the topic rather than people just blindly changing templates back and forth. 
(also, Template:Skill and Template:Skill List are serving the same function, one should be decided on and the other should be disposed of.)
--Biochemistness-76 18:22, 18 September 2007 (MDT)
:There was some discussion about this on IRC a few minutes ago. I can post the log if interested, but consensus seemed to be that PNG was here to stay, at least for the things that used to be GIFs. Hadas 18:32, 18 September 2007 (MDT)
:Template:Skill seems to be the more frequently used template; Template:Skill List is probably only used because it appears in the Templates Category, while Template:Skill doesn't (should be fixed if it's the one kept) --Reiko 04:00, 24 September 2007 (MDT)
Skill List was the one used on RI iirc. --Deviattor 10:08, 24 September 2007 (MDT)
== Policy Development ==
I would like to see some actual coherent, consensus-supported policies come into existence here.
A potential skeleton for these could be:
*Editing Policy
**iRO Wiki:Civility - Policies regarding dealing with other editors, such as assuming good faith, civility, etc.
**iRO Wiki:Deletion - Policy regarding deletion of articles and other media on the wiki.
**iRO Wiki:Protection - Policy regarding the protection and semi-protection of articles.
**iRO Wiki:Moderator - Policy regarding the provision and revocation of sysop status as well as sysop-specific policies (e.g. policies regarding wheel warring)
**iRO Wiki:Vandalism - Coherent policy against vandalism (with a definition of what vandalism is)
*Content Policy
**iRO Wiki:Verifiability - Policy that verifiable information is preferable to non-verifiable information.
**iRO Wiki:Use iRO - Policy that information from private servers is strictly prohibited and information from legal servers other than iRO (e.g. kRO) is less important (and less useful) than information from iRO.
*Style Policy
**iRO Wiki:Manual of Style - Create a coherent theme that should be shared by all wiki articles. Should include a section on naming conventions as well.
Hadas 05:44, 19 September 2007 (MDT)
:Deletion policy proposal has been made. Hadas 21:39, 10 October 2007 (MDT)
:These are all currently in the main namespace, were they intended to be in the project namespace? I can see some value to having them (at this point) out of the project namespace, as that will allow people without sysop to edit/contribute to them. Though ultimately they should be in the project namespace.
:Shouldn't we also have something along the lines of a Policy policy, so that we can lay out the formal approach to proposing, adjusting, and ratifying new policy
:--Biochemistness-76 14:53, 15 October 2007 (MDT)
::That would be a good idea too. Hadas 16:04, 15 October 2007 (MDT)
::iRO Wiki:Policies and Guidelines Hadas 07:10, 17 October 2007 (MDT)
== Maintenance Script ==
The maintenance script apparently did not preserve any of the page information associated with any of the images. So it seems all the images are without categories, and any images that may have previously had descriptions no longer do. Can this be solved by some simple tweaking of the script, or will categories & descriptions need to be manually added every time the script runs? --Biochemistness-76 15:11, 26 September 2007 (MDT)
:The maintenance script was a one time deal. We totally reinstalled the wiki and transferred everything over via importing and that script. It won't happen again, but I think we'll probably have to manually redo everything that is missing, sorry. Beats having a broken wiki though! --Resplendent 16:11, 26 September 2007 (MDT)
== Policies and Guidelines ==
If anyone who wishes to vote hasn't voted yet, please express your opinions of the proposed policy iRO Wiki:Policies and Guidelines on its talk page. Thanks. Hadas 19:09, 3 November 2007 (MDT)
== Kafra Shop and VAS Pages ==
It'd be nice if there was page describing, in general, how the KS functions, its benefits, and payment methods for iRO in particular. Since this isn't a wiki for any other version, I wouldn't worry about how others do it, especially since it would probably only confuse people. We might also want to do pages for the Value Added Services, since there's soon to be a Stat Reset along with the original two. --Resplendent 00:00, 8 November 2007 (MST)
== New Search Engine Trial ==
http://irowiki.org/wiki/Special:SphinxSearch
Give this a whirl, and leave comments to what you think about it. If it seems to run smoothly enough we'll replace the main search with it. --Bluedreams 23:03, 25 March 2008 (MDT)
== Moderator Roll Call ==
As I'm not quite sure who is actively viewing the wiki from the wiki mod team these days, I would appreciate it if all mods would sign under this section within a week of this message being posted. --Resplendent 02:06, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:Hello Resp --WK 05:39, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:Herro. Hadas 05:51, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:In this place right? --NeoSaro 13:32, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:witty comment. --Biochemistness-76 14:14, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:Hmm. --Deviattor 14:30, 2 March 2008 (MST)
:Present and accounted for. Kuro 20:06, 2 March 2008 (MST)
: :( --Rav 23:49, 15 April 2008 (MDT)
== Switching DBs ==
Biochemist brought this up on IRC a bit ago, and I think it'd be a good idea if we can get assurances from Soukosa that Amesani will be up for the foreseeable future. Comments? --Resplendent 09:51, 7 May 2008 (MDT)
:RODE seems a bit slow as of late, and to a noticeable extent doesn't have complete 11.3 info up. (Presumably in anticipation of RODE2). Amesani on the other hand seems to have more of its info up to date but is a slightly different look & feel for people to get used to. Too much switching around is probably not a good idea, (so it would be good if amesani is around long term).
:If RODE is to become defunct (in favor of RODE2), we will at some point need to adjust where the templates link.
:--Biochemistness-76 17:04, 7 May 2008 (MDT)
::Sou seems to think she'll be around a bit, so unless anyone has an objection I'll change it over once she changes the URLs. --Resplendent 09:27, 8 May 2008 (MDT)
:::Any chances of getting StringFunctions added to the parser? Without it, i dont see anyway (backwards compatible) of making the current templates work with amesani's url's. (short of going and changing every use of them on every page, which would be sidestepping backwards compatibility) --Biochemistness-76 15:52, 26 May 2008 (MDT)
Installed. --Resplendent 23:12, 26 May 2008 (MDT)
Switch complete, examples on each of the template pages linked correctly, so everything should be in proper working order. --Biochemistness-76 23:48, 26 May 2008 (MDT)
== Wiki Skin ==
I'm having trouble because of the reduced contrast. My eyesight is ok, but the contrast is too low in my opinion. Any possibility of providing a second, better-contrast alternate stylesheet? Technically, the current body text color (RGB 96 109 125) in grayscale is 110 (out of 255), in other words less than half contrast. I find it slightly painful. Links also need to stick out more, methinks. --Steax 23:48, 13 June 2008 (MDT)
:I agree with this. --Biochemistness-76 12:16, 14 June 2008 (MDT)
::I've been playing with CSS colors the last couple of days, and I think the one on the front page looks fairly decent. However, I can't find the right line in the css file for the in-line text (currently the pale gray). --Resplendent 11:51, 16 June 2008 (MDT)
:::That would be in main.css line 27. color: #606D7D is the pale bluish gray currently used for all text. My suggestion is #303D4D or #202D3D. Those look pretty nice and sharp. --Steax 17:46, 16 June 2008 (MDT)
Done, hope that helps! --Resplendent 18:08, 16 June 2008 (MDT)
:Much better. --Steax 23:07, 16 June 2008 (MDT)
== Project Ideas ==
*Organize Weapon pages, they need it...
*Forging materials for weapons put on forge page in organized table. DONE
*Job Change guides for all classes. These are in need of organizing as well, they're all over the place. Some are integrated into the class's article and others are separate. Need to decide how to do them. DONE
:I'm thinking for this maybe have a First Classes Job Change Guides page with all 6, then a different guide for each 2nd class, and an Expanded Classes Job Change Guides page for Super Novice, Gunslinger and Ninja.
* Lots of missing skill desc images (for active skills which should have one)
*Episode 11.3 related content - War of Emperium 2, Mercenary System, God Items Quest 2 DONE
:I've done reorganizing for the Monk Job Change Guide, and generally patched up what I could from the previous version. --Steax 04:54, 22 June 2008 (MDT) 
::I added links to all second class (sans expanded) Job Change Guides on the Quests page. Anyone who can assist in moving the job change content from the class pages to the guides pages, please do so! --Resplendent 20:18, 22 June 2008 (MDT)
:: All second trans job quests are identical; should we just move them to a separate page, should we not? --Steax 01:43, 20 July 2008 (MDT)
:::I think it's all right to have the job change for them on their own class pages. The template is exactly the same already, so there's continuity, and it's super short. --Resplendent 10:03, 20 July 2008 (MDT)
* Optimizing of Job pages: The new structure has been decided upon, it seems. I'm starting to construct, within the PvP/WoE application section, information on a class-to-class basis, defining roles of what the job usually does. I'm starting on Sage now. --Steax 06:04, 5 July 2008 (MDT) DONE
=== Job Page Standardization ===
This is a project that's probably long overdue. The structure needs to be formalized in a MOS page, and needs to be applied to all job pages. I'll make a MOS page and leave it open for editing for a period of time before closing it. --Resplendent 08:33, 27 August 2008 (MDT) DONE
== Time Portals ==
Some skill pages had "older version" sections (i.e. Back Stab), and while I was going to add these to a few others (i.e. for Spear Boomerang, a note on how it used to be ghost property: the usefulness is this could clear up some misconceptions about it that are brought up from time to time, ofc this being applicable to other skills too), I was thinking about making 'Comodo Changes' and 'Juno Changes' pages (also alpha-->beta transition), since there are practically 0 reliable sources regarding outdated content...and for whatever reason (nostalgia, etc) many people are interested in old RO content. However, I'm not sure where to link to them from. I wouldn't want to tag them as 'Game Mechanics' to avoid confusion, even if it's stated that the content on the pages is outdated. 
:--Rav 08:20, 18 July 2008 (MDT)
:I'll look into what information I can dig up. I'm also looking into finding out more background information about cities and places, because background stories are often interesting. For now just add in a note in the Notes section for the skills about how it used to be (some skills already do that). --Steax 00:24, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
::I know some already do that, I added the ones that do that myself (save Back Stab) however long ago (not sure if they were removed with the move from RI). I am looking to make new pages however. If no one has any good suggestions I will just do what I was planning on.
:::--Rav 13:12, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
I'll make a test page layout, see how you like it. --Resplendent 13:24, 19 July 2008 (MDT)
== Resource Request ==
Does anyone have the icons used for statuses in-game? I mean like the Increase agi icon, critical wounds, etc? It would be nice to have a legend on what each icon indicates. One last suggestion: Shouldn't the topics in this page be in reverse chronological order? --Steax 03:16, 30 May 2008 (MDT)
:Doddler's Icon Guide. It might be nice to port a copy over to the wiki, i can spot at least 1 thing that should be changed. (slyness icon doesn't display in game.) --Biochemistness-76 12:31, 30 May 2008 (MDT)
::Ported over the info but we need the images. --Resplendent 10:29, 21 September 2008 (MDT)
== Quest Level Categories ==
New quest organization project: Categorize them by level requirement. --Resplendent 21:47, 6 October 2008 (MDT)
*[[Category: Level 1~9 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 10~19 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 20~29 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 30~39 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 40~49 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 50~59 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 60~69 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 70~79 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 80~89 Quests]]
*[[Category: Level 90~99 Quests]]
:Template:Quest Info has been modified to add these categories. The current behavior is to add all categories if the {{{levelreq}}} is not a numeric value (more specifically, if {{{levelreq}}} > 0 is not a valid expressions), as in the case of "N/A" or "none". We should double check to make sure all quests have a correct levelreq set, as i'm pretty sure the "None" appearing on Sign Quest is wrong. --Stalker-ness 13:34, 7 October 2008 (MDT)
:: Done! --Resplendent 14:16, 7 October 2008 (MDT)
:::For documentations sake: this was implemented slightly differently than originally proposed. Categories are [[Category: Level x~99 Quests]] where x is {1,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90}. --Stalker-ness 12:16, 4 November 2008 (MST)
== Quest Organizer Page ==
Create a page that has a table of quests which can be organized by the following fields:
*Base Level Requirement
*Job Level Requirement
*Base EXP Reward
*Job EXP Reward
*Party Requirement
*Approximate Time to Complete
*Approximate Difficulty
Any other suggested fields? --Resplendent 14:16, 7 October 2008 (MDT)
== Category ==
Suggestion: Add a "Quest with Party Requirements" or something category for those quests with one. --Resplendent 12:04, 4 November 2008 (MST)
:There are only 2 quests (Party Relay Quest and Revolution Quest) that have a strict party requirement. Most the rest that appear to have one are just "you need x people at y location, partied or not", and the only one that comes to mind in that latter grouping is just the Thanatos Tower Quest, and perhaps some event quests. --Stalker-ness 12:13, 4 November 2008 (MST)
::K, guess I had myself confused from the "suggested" party from the quest table. --Resplendent 12:32, 4 November 2008 (MST)
== Articles on semi-encyclopedic information ==
A team of wizards and other classes from my guild on idRO have recently been attempting to create a large guide for mage, sage, wizard, and possibly ninja, skills. Many players are missing the knowledge of simple tactics like vertical firewalls, and some methods, like those for the agi/int wiz, are simply less known. I have been wondering if these topics are suitable for wiki articles, as they are not encyclopedic but still contains valuable information on a subject. Input is appreciated.
--Steax 01:33, 25 December 2008 (MST)
:This kind of information is fine, and even encouraged to be put on skill pages. For instance, Vertical Fire Wall tactics can go in a section on the Fire Wall page. --Resplendent 16:56, 26 December 2008 (MST)
== Skills ==
Skills information - should contain only direct prereqs or all like that http://irowiki.org/w/index.php?title=Kaite&curid=2599&diff=16720&oldid=7690 ? --KuchKDA-3346 22:04, 28 February 2009 (MST)
:It should only contain direct prerequisites. --Deviattor 09:00, 1 March 2009 (MST)
==Redirection==
I'm thinking about implementing lots of redirects on various parts of the wiki, especially:
* Common abbreviations ("pront" to Prontera, "bowling" to Bowling Bash, or maybe even "BB" to Bowling Bash)
* Alternate names and misspellings ("Loki's Wail" to Classical Pluck, etc)
* Quests without the word "Quest" in them (not in general; "Veins Siblings" to the one appended with "Quest")
It would make browsing from an integrated search bar (which I always do, and am sure many others use as well) easier. Some articles just have ridiculous names like "Curse of Gaebolg (Founding of the Nation Myth Quest)". —Steax 00:05, 19 December 2009 (MST)
:I'd just be worried about a lot of duplicate entries there, and people getting confused about what exact name should be used for linking throughout the wiki. The alternate names/articles with "Quest" at least are good things to have redirected. Just not sure about misspellings, since there's unlimited ways to "misspell" things. What determines which are good to have? Wouldn't it really clutter up the search bar to have many? --Resplendent 00:46, 19 December 2009 (MST)
::As redirects, they'll be noted as a redirection on the landing page, right? So I suppose it would be okay for alternate names and quest articles, at least. Is there a simple, easy-to-use redirection template other than having to actually create the new page? —Steax 01:03, 19 December 2009 (MST)
Unfortunately there isn't any. --Resplendent 03:05, 19 December 2009 (MST)
I've started off with some monk and sage skills. Can someone who has a bard/dancer class with the alt names fill in those? Type in this:
#REDIRECT [[Magic Strings]]
{{R from alternative name}}
in a new page (in this case, titled "Bragi's Poem" or "Poem of Bragi"; I'm not sure which is correct and hence has not done so yet) to create the redirect. Leave everything except the name of the redirected page in square brackets intact. — ‹ Steax ›(My Talk) 21:46, 14 January 2010 (MST)
:I believe it's Poem of Bragi. --Resplendent 21:52, 14 January 2010 (MST)
:I still don't know the rest, though. Best if someone who has access to a character on an alt-name server to fill in everything. Anyone? — ‹ Steax ›(My Talk) 22:23, 14 January 2010 (MST)
:What other classes aside from Sage, Monk and Bard/Dancer have alt skill names? Any known differences on Crusader and Alchemist? — Steax(Talk) 01:08, 15 January 2010 (MST)
::Done--Kathelya 11:59, 16 April 2010 (MDT)
==Navboxes==
Can someone less lazy add them into the other classes? The template is {{Navbox_Classes}}. I'll also be making a navbox for mechanics I guess. — Steax(Talk) 02:02, 30 January 2010 (MST)
== Links ==
Once the new Warp Portal site setup is up and running we're going to have to change lots of external links throughout the wiki. Please be on the lookout for newly outdated ones. --Resplendent 21:29, 21 July 2010 (MDT)
== Sudden flood of user creations ==
I'm not sure if it belongs here, but is anyone getting suspicious about the sudden flood of user creations? --Blackyoukai 21:43, 30 July 2010 (MDT)
:Most of them appear to match forum usernames... I assume there's some form of integration with the forums causing it, but its probably better to ask than quietly assume. (I have no idea if its intended or suspicious.) --Stalker-ness 22:16, 30 July 2010 (MDT)
:: I have a feeling it's due to the new skin. Earlier it wasn't working in some browsers so people were probably registering to change it. I'm fairly certain that's fixed now though. --Resplendent 23:25, 30 July 2010 (MDT)
== Copy Pasting ==
Not sure if this is something easily fixed, or if Mediawiki themselves caused it. Before the new wiki upgrade, the editing page was simple, like any regular text pad. Copy Pasting was normal. But now, it seems like with firefox, When pasting something in, it pastes it, (waits a few seconds depending on how large the page is, which didn't happen before), then moves the cursor to the beginning of the line. Tried testing it with google chrome to see if it was just the browser playing hard ball with the new update, but on chrome, it just removes the cursor, so you have to re-click in the edit area to begin typing again. Even tried changing skins (monobook vs vector), thinking it might be that, but to no avail. Is this normal, or just me? Because, I'd really hope that it can go back to how it use to be with copy pasting. Makes adding links a whole lot easier. Bake Mono 17:54, 1 August 2010 (MDT)
: I noticed this as well. Not sure what causes it but I'm playing around with resetting my preferences, etc. --Resplendent 18:41, 1 August 2010 (MDT)
:: Update: I figured out it's caused by Chrome's snipping off the http:// in the address bar. When you copy a link it must copy a line break in as well. This problem didn't occur when copying links from other browers then pasting them into an edit window in Chrome. --Resplendent 18:44, 1 August 2010 (MDT)
== Navbox Project ==
So I've come to realize just how nifty these little suckers are. After brainstorming some, I think it might be nice to have one for each class. For example:
It does duplicate the category functionality, but I'd wager not many people use them. The Archer category only has 3,200 views, and it's been around since the beginning. Note that "Weapons" only lists the class's primary weapons, since listing all equippable ones would be a bit pointless (to me at least). I'd be happy to gather feedback on if this would improve navigation and discovery of related pages. --Resplendent 22:18, 14 August 2010 (MDT)
:Should we include both the transcendent and normal version for the Second Class Navboxes? The transcendent Navbox would be rather pointless as it will only include a few skills. --Blackyoukai 15:47, 16 August 2010 (MDT)
:: We should do 1 box for both classes. Just have a 2nd Class Skills and Transcendent Skills box, then add the same box to all pages. --Resplendent 16:01, 16 August 2010 (MDT)
 
::This will also allow us to add a row for Third Class skills in the future. --Resplendent 16:10, 16 August 2010 (MDT)
:Navboxes are indeed damn sexy (I toyed around with them a while back). I had an idea similar to this but I had no clear idea on how to expand upon it to a usable state. That looks pretty nice. Now here's the big question: which pages should have that box? I say all skills and quests listed, as well as all Archer pages (and further classes). I find that the biggest form of navigation I use is Skill A to Skill B, especially if I'm unsure about the spelling. That aside, any idea for a similar box for quests? I find myself jumping around a lot to find a particular quest. — Steax(Talk) 03:57, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
::Minor note: The [hide] button's javascript should return false, so the page doesn't jump to the top when it's clicked. — Steax(Talk) 04:01, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:::I'm not sure where that should go (not being versed in JS). Can you take a look at MediaWiki:Common.js and let me know? --Resplendent 07:30, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:::I tried returning false but it somehow doesn't fix the problem, so I made it jump to the table anyway. A bit uglier, but it works. Actually I don't suggest using hide/show buttons at all, as they're not very large in the first place and I don't see why anyone would want to hide it. — Steax(Talk) 10:50, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:The show/hide only seems to show up when you're logged in now. (Maybe it was always doing that) which isn't so great. I do think we need the show/hide for when we have 3+ nav boxes on a single page. It gets a bit much. I also think we're going to need to figure some way of doing "combo" navboxes like wikipedia that can hide them all at once. --Resplendent 11:37, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
::→ Is jQuery enabled for everyone? If so, I might just find a way to make the boxes myself, it would give us extra control. The problem is, the state of the buttons aren't stored after page refreshes (and I can't store them unless I add a plugin), so the system feels kind of pointless if the user has to hide them every time anyway. — Steax(Talk) 15:14, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
::Another thing: Can we have direct links to a skill simulator for that class in the box? — Steax(Talk) 05:26, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:::Fine with me. Would be nice to fit them in the skill areas already in it without taking up too much room. --Resplendent 07:30, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:Also, how do you want to do the Navbox for Bard and Dancer. And do you want to include Homunculus Skills in the Alchemist Navbox? --Blackyoukai 16:51, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
::→ I think a whole new Homunculus navbox is a good idea. No need separating the different types I think, the amount of skills aren't that big anyway. 1 row per type, and a row of quests and other related links? — Steax(Talk) 22:23, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
::Also, can someone please explain what all these </td></tr></table> things are doing on each template? Or is this a bug on my end? — Steax(Talk) 23:35, 18 August 2010 (MDT)
:::Long story short it's the only way to get them not to look like shit on the page. It also means on all pages that aren't skill pages you need to add the table/tr/td tags right before the navbox. Yes it's a pain. --Resplendent 01:27, 19 August 2010 (MDT)
:::→ I don't understand; when I made, say, the Classes navbox, I never met such a problem. Let me see if I can figure out what the problem is. — Steax(Talk) 04:55, 19 August 2010 (MDT)
OK found out why. The classes navbox is only on class pages, which has an infobox that is different from all the others. versus so we either have to do the annoying html tags thing or redo that template. Oh, and the quest template too. --Resplendent 09:02, 19 August 2010 (MDT)
:Yay! Thanks to Stalker-ness' awesome efforts I think we finally have this fixed for all our infobox templates. The html code can be removed from navboxes and replaced with style="width:750px; clear: right" in the table itself. --Resplendent 15:04, 19 August 2010 (MDT)
=== Implementation ===
Now that we've got all the boxes made, we're all going to have to pitch in to add them to the corresponding pages. I've added them to their base class pages Wizard, Gypsy, etc. but the quests, skills, and some weapons pages need them added. I suggest everyone pick a couple of classes and do those. We can use this chart to keep track:
Class/Type 	Status
Novice 	DONE
Super Novice 	DONE
Guild 	DONE
Homunculus 	DONE
Archer 	DONE
Mage 	DONE
Acolyte 	DONE
Swordman 	DONE
Thief 	DONE
Merchant 	DONE
Wizard/High Wizard 	DONE
Priest/High Priest 	DONE
Dancer/Gypsy 	DONE
Bard/Minstrel 	DONE
Assassin/Assassin Cross	DONE
Crusader/Paladin 	DONE
Knight/Lord Knight 	DONE
Blacksmith/Mastersmith 	DONE
Alchemist/Biochemist 	DONE
Rogue/Stalker 	DONE
Hunter/Sniper 	DONE
Sage/Scholar 	DONE
Monk/Champion 	DONE
TaeKwon Kid 	DONE
Soul Linker 	DONE
TaeKwon Master 	DONE
Gunslinger 	DONE
Ninja 	DONE
:Project is complete. --Blackyoukai 14:07, 27 August 2010 (MDT)
=== Main Page ===
Okay, I've decided to personally stay off from adding data to skill/class pages because I have no knowledge on R yet. However, one thing I do think could use a revamp is the Main Page. I propose re-categorizing the many links there, as right now it's totally unwieldy to browse. "General" and "Specific" isn't clear enough. Maybe group by items/classes/world/mechanics/resources. And also, how about something resembling the classes navbox? A lot of people want access to fresh new renewal stuff, so that seems the easiest way to go. — Steax(Talk) 01:07, 5 October 2010 (MDT)
:If you'd like to come up with something I'd be happy to take a look. --Resplendent 06:57, 5 October 2010 (MDT)
:Okay, I did what grouping I could. I left the "Character" section deliberately half-full so the lower part can be made to resemble the classes navbox. What do you think? There's also a lot of room to add in more pages. I just realized we're lacking a lot of mechanics articles on the main page. — Steax(Talk) 21:32, 5 October 2010 (MDT)
::Your grouping method did give me an idea. First I put all the long description text in the link itself so it only shows up when hovering. This saves tons of space and allows me to group links closely together under categories without making the page longer, and in fact potentially quite a bit shorter. Test gives an idea of where I'm thinking of going, in a very rough form. --Resplendent 09:50, 6 October 2010 (MDT)
:::Aside from the large amount of white space added, Test looks fine to me. I would suggest that, instead of doing 1 table with two columns containing text, it would probably looks better with 1 table containing 2 columns each with an independent table containing text. Otherwise, topics that have 2 lines of text add more white space on the other side of the table. For example:
:::5 lines oftextin thiscell1 line here2 lines here5 lines oftextin thiscell
:::vs.
:::5 lines oftextin thiscell2 lines here1 line here5 linesoftextin thiscell
:::(though i hope expect none of the topics reach 5 lines...) --Stalker-ness 13:35, 6 October 2010 (MDT)
:I've done a bit of work on Main Page (type 1), and I tend to think it uses available space better, while Test (type 2) leaves a lot of empty space. Of course, those mean that type 1 forces the user to scroll to find some info, where as type 2 presents it all within one glance (assuming mouse-over).
:*Note: the current order of the blocks on type 1 is really just random, they can (and should) be adjusted to make more sense, but it gives an idea of the visual layout.
:I tend to be the kind of person who looks at a page before thinking about where my mouse is (or moving it), so I kind of favor type 1. --Stalker-ness 14:02, 8 October 2010 (MDT)
::However, it looks like firefox does not handle the tables one type1 quite as gracefully as chrome does... --Stalker-ness 14:18, 8 October 2010 (MDT)
:::My problem with type 1 is the sheer amount of text. It's useless to people who know what those things are already and makes it take longer to just find what you want and click on it. I suppose it's better if you have no idea what any of it is, but that's why type 2 still makes it available when hovering over the link. Plus I think the clean look is more appealing and don't really have an issue with empty space. I had figured we would be adding more links to it over time, which uses the available space better than type 1 since we'd be able to fit quite a few more links due to not having all that descriptive text next to each one. --Resplendent 14:24, 8 October 2010 (MDT)
:::The current one looks good enough to me. I think most of it is self explanatory, too. My only concern is that center-aligning stuff actually often makes for harder scanability. Don't know if there's an alternative, though. — Steax(Talk) 10:12, 11 October 2010 (MDT)
=== Flavor Text ===
A lot of skills have "flavor text", decorative text that describes what the skill is supposed to do. Should they be kept on skill pages? Some of them may be confusing; I removed the "low kick" part of Wind Mill because it may cause people to think it works like a TK's kick, or something. Others are just decorative. Most of the older skills lack these, though, aside from explanations of aesthetic effects to better identify the skill (i.e. Gloria Domini). Thoughts? — Steax(Talk) 09:14, 16 October 2010 (MDT)
:I would leave it out unless it's necessary to convey how the skill works. --Resplendent 09:40, 16 October 2010 (MDT)
== Wiki Renewal Plans ==
Here are my current plans of attack for when renewal comes:
*Set up new copy of MediaWiki on the iW domain
*The current wiki will becoome the pre-Renewal wiki and the url will change to http://irowiki.org/oldwiki or something similar
*The new copy of MW will become the renewal wiki and will have a completely duplicated database (sans users). This saves us a lot of time having to manually copy every page that is changed with renewal and from having to redo every navbox and intrawiki link.
*The new MW will share the user database with the old/pre-renewal wiki and will share uploads. The new wiki will take over the URL of the current wiki.
*Interwiki linking will be used to go back and forth, with "Renewal Version" or "Pre-Renewal Version" showing up in the sidebar for pages with changes between the two. 
*Pages that are NOT changed will be kept only on the renewal wiki to avoid duplication there. Unchanged pages on the current (pre-renewal) wiki will be deleted and redirected to the renewal wiki. Intrawiki links can be left the same or changed to remove double redirects.
So that's the current plan. Please feel free to give feedback and suggest changes. --Resplendent 15:10, 26 August 2010 (MDT)
:So if I understand, you want to copy all wiki data into a new database, removing from old database articles like Kafra or Prontera, redirecting them in "pre-Renewal Wiki" to "Renewal Wiki". But leaving two versions of the articles like Base EXP Chart.
:Well, the only issue I see is the people that visits the "pre-Renewal Wiki" can get tired of going back to "pre-Renewal Wiki" each time they visit a page that redirects them to "Renewal Wiki". --NeoSaro 14:07, 6 September 2010 (MDT)
::Perhaps, but the pre-renewal wiki isn't really going to be used much after we have Renewal, it's only being kept as an archive. I think people care more about the current state of the game, so it's a drawback that I'm willing to put up with. If you have any suggestions that might help with the issue, feel free to share. --Resplendent 16:14, 6 September 2010 (MDT)
== Symbol for number ranges ==
Which symbol should be used to denote number ranges? A tilde or an en dash? Richard 10:10, 29 September 2010 (MDT)
:Right now we seem to be using the template. --Resplendent 12:00, 29 September 2010 (MDT)
== Quest Experience ==
Needs to be adjusted. I believe they said they were just taking it to 10% of the pre-renewal EXP but I need confirmation on that. --Resplendent 13:09, 9 October 2010 (MDT)
:Well I guess we can be sure enough. Let's get going on this one. --Resplendent 09:19, 15 October 2010 (MDT)
::K finished. --Resplendent 18:41, 15 October 2010 (MDT)
== EXP Article ==
Since the bonus/penalty table is one of the most important aspects, I'd like to get that added to the EXP article ASAP. --Resplendent 09:19, 15 October 2010 (MDT)
== Template:Monster, Template:Item, and Template:Map ==
Can someone update the templates to RODE because Amesani is dead? The page is protected and normal users can't edit. Alvin 20:34, 1 November 2010 (MDT)
:I've updated Monster and Map, since rode has no item page yet i'm not sure what can really be done for the item template. Maybe i'll just remove the link so it wont lead to 404's. --Stalker-ness 20:45, 1 November 2010 (MDT)
==Links==
The box that verifies that you are not a bot is really pissing me off lately. Can someone make it so that when someone uses the item, map, or monster template, it won't prompt the box. john talk to me 23:49, 27 November 2010 (MST)
:I wasn't even aware we had a capcha system installed. I *think* i've correctly added exceptions to the whitelist, but short of making another account, I dont think I can test it. Are you still getting capcha checks when using those templates? (if it works, are there other sites I should add?) --Stalker-ness 19:18, 28 November 2010 (MST)
::Yeah, I still get the captcha. john talk to mespy me 19:51, 28 November 2010 (MST)
:::I think blue fixed it, (adjusted the capcha to no-longer apply on page edits) --Stalker-ness 21:28, 28 November 2010 (MST)
::::Funny thing is, it was only supposed to give a captcha if you weren't logged and and adding an URL via an edit. (Guest edits are disabled) Either way, I turned that off so it should only work on registration and bad login attempts. -Bluedreams 21:31, 28 November 2010 (MST)
:::::I personally have never had any problems with the Captcha's, and we've had them for something like a year now. Still, this makes it a tad easier. --ArcLumin
== Essays ==
I'd like to suggest permitting user essays on the wiki. Essays can be used for user-oriented guides and articles, because the general style guide doesn't permit this in normal articles. I think this is necessary is for stuff like compilations and guides. Player-contributed essays usually don't fit into a the pre-existing structure, but the rest of the wiki can borrow data from said essays. To keep things clean, I suppose essays should be kept within the author's namespace, and given a specific template. Thoughts? — Steax(Talk) 23:28, 26 December 2010 (MST)
:What kind of subjects would these essays be on? Richard 05:34, 27 December 2010 (MST)
::Probably builds, PvP, WoE, some how-tos and other random tips and tricks. Correct me if I'm wrong though. john talk to mespy me 12:51, 27 December 2010 (MST)
:::I would be more under the assumption that it would be a bit more varied than that. Perhaps the history of iRO, a look at how the game has changed from a players standpoint. Or perhaps a few of the skills/classes/items/maps that have changed drastically over the years. Could be some very interesting reads. --ArcLumin 19:52, 29 December 2010 (MST)
:::Pretty much anything that isn't wiki-ish enough (e.g. due to complexity, in-depth-ness, minor bias, works in progress). Stuff like:
:::* Leveling guides for specific builds/characters (if it weren't an essay, all other classes would need their counterparts)
:::* Strategy guides (as said, pvp, woe, how-tos. These can easily have minor bias and use technical details we don't use elsewhere)
:::* Compilations (like that thread on RO lore on the fora)
:::* Incomplete stuff (not ready for their own articles yet, but worth noting)
:::I think the most important factor is that it allows the author to use their own language and style, not requiring complete conformation with the rest of the wiki. It also allows the author a level of ownership over their essay. I suggest that we can then promote essays into the general wiki content if they're mature enough, while linking back ("Originally based on Essay:Steax's_Awesome_Guide") on the eventual article.
:::I don't know, just a thought to help the wiki get more organic. I often felt like people want to write on the wiki, but they're worried about difficulties in making it fit in and everything. — Steax(Talk) 00:52, 13 January 2011 (MST)
As a proof of concept, I made the Essay:Reflect_Damage_Guide, showing some of the things I think should be considered for essays:
* A more relaxed tone, somewhat more like the forum than the wiki
* The author is allowed to make up their own terms and explanations (only when necessary, of course)
* Concentrating on a specific topic
* Not requiring to link to other parts of the wiki (to an extent, at least most things should be linked once)
* Not requiring conformance to other articles
So, thoughts? — Steax(Talk) 03:33, 28 January 2011 (MST)
:It looks fine to me. We should probably have relevant pages link to essays (like Reflect Damage) --Stalker-ness 13:00, 28 January 2011 (MST)
== Did you know... ==
You know what I felt iRO always needed? Did you know stuff on the front page. I always found it very refreshing to find mild tidbits about whatever wiki it is that has it. You could set it to change every week, and I would be willing to obtain quite a bit of trivia on the game. Such as:
*Did you know that the Gunslinger and Ninja guilds are actually the same map?
*Did you know that the Santa's Bag and Summer Suit items are actually programmed in to temporarily change your class?
*Did you know that both Tomahawk Throwing and Holy Night are the only 2 skills that are only available through items?
I've got a lot more, but I'd have to think of them. Anyways, what do you guys think? --ArcLumin 19:52, 29 December 2010 (MST)
:So I'll assuming you will update it every week then? If you do, I will say yes to this. Or maybe we could get a bot to update this. john talk to mespy me 00:21, 1 January 2011 (MST)
::I would think a list would be made, adding in a small bit of trivia, and this would be updated semi-frequently. A bot would reference this list and create a pseudo-random box for it on the main page. --ArcLumin 17:56, 2 January 2011 (MST)
:::Actually a bot isn't needed for this, the RandomText extension will basically do what ArcLumin is suggesting. A template can be created so tips can be edited/added without needing to edit the main page. All the main page would need is the template sourced (like {{tips}}) and it'll refer to whatever is in that template. There's probably a way to tailor the values to get it to update in specific times, but by default it loads a random text upon refresh. --Igozuvi 18:56, 14 July 2011 (MDT)
== New pages ==
I say we should add pages about the dungeons and field areas (e.g. Prontera Fields or Sograt Desert) since we already have towns. Agree? john talk to mespy me 17:21, 31 December 2010 (MST)
:Yes, but only for significant places. Richard 09:13, 1 January 2011 (MST)
We should probably have a Template:Infobox Dungeon and a Template:Infobox Town but I have no idea how to code that and if I did, it would fail miserably.
For Template:Infobox Dungeon, it should include:
#Nearest town.
#If an entrance quest is needed.
#MvP if there is one
#Base level range.
#Common Monsters?
#how many levels or maps
#difficulty?
For Template:Infobox Town, it should include:
#Nearest town.
#if there is a kafra
#dungeons
#kingdom it's in
#if it's Airship accessible
#if it's themed
#notable landmarks?
Just a thought. :/ john talk to mespy me 17:36, 1 January 2011 (MST)
:Go ahead and start off from the Places page, then we can link from that page to the detail pages. — Steax(Talk) 00:53, 13 January 2011 (MST)
::Hi, just wondering if anyone was working on the dungeon pages? Currently I adjust quest pages as I complete them to be more precise. It does make it difficult when there are no dungeon pages to link to on the Wiki. Right now I have done minor edits to Nidhoggur's Dungeon and Glast Heim to link to the iW Database, but it just doesn't seem like enough. I just recently started editing on iRO Wiki, so I apologize if some of my edits are not in line with standards. Thanks. --Nilami 11:28, 28 February 2011 (MST)
:::I added a Dungeon Infobox template, let me know if this works or if anything should be adjusted. I added fields that I thought were probably relevant, such as any quests that require going into that dungeon, nearest memo point, common monster elements, and such. --Penciltea (talk) 20:46, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
== Adding Lore? ==
I know I've been damned curious and trying to find lore for this game, as the game's site has next to nothing on it. I also know others are interested in this topic, based on the forums I've been on, and many people have been trying to either learn about or piece together the lore. I know there's a basic informational section on the wiki, but would it be something we should consider adding? I know a lot of the pages try to be as informative as concise as possible, because a lot of players like to look, find their information quickly, and continue playing. Maybe we should have a Lore category for individual pages or a Lore section on the appropriate pages, with spoiler tags so that people can skip over it easily without having to scroll through it all?
--Penciltea (talk) 18:13, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
== Update side nav bar/Main page? ==
Can we update the side navigation and main page so that the sections on both locations are the same? Like the "Character" section on the main page has a "Skills" page that the side navigation "Character" section is missing.
--Penciltea (talk) 18:14, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
==Update Goals?==
I know there's a -ton- of stuff to update/add/etc. on the Wiki... I was wondering if it might be beneficial to say "this month, we want to update X (like, all of the Swordsman classes pages, all of the dungeon pages, etc.)." I understand that some people like to update specific information, like updating specifically quests or specifically character information... Would it maybe be more beneficial to have everyone say "I want to work on X for the month?"
If we work on actively accomplishing specific goals, I think the content updates would become more streamlined and focused and content will probably be updated more quickly than if we update haphazardly. Juuuust a thought. --Penciltea (talk) 01:13, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
== Ongoing "Skill Applications" Project ==
In my returning to iRO, I'm resuming an old project of mine: Implementing an "Applications" section to skill pages. This section would highlight a skill's practical purpose to accompany the theoretical and cold numbers; basically a "guide" companion to the encyclopedia. You can check out a crude version on the Storm Gust page. These things, by nature, are far more opinionated, so it's important to keep the language as neutral as possible. That said, they're necessary to answer many a new player's burning question: So what does this skill actually do? and So is this worth taking? Now, I'm working my way towards warlock, so I'll start filling in pages off memory (as a sura/royal guard in the past, too), but this is the sort of thing that needs a lot of contribution from many players.
Things to note, among others:
* What builds (pvm, mvp, pvp, etc) prefer this skill (e.g. "Bash is usually a pvm skill, or for stunning low-vit opponents in pvp")?
* What circumstances would a person find this skill useful (e.g. "Snap is also useful in pvm for pulling mobs")?
* Do any other skills overshadow or make this skill obsolete?
* Does this skill replace the use of another skill from a previous class?
And off to editing we go! — Steax(Talk) 13:18, 20 December 2012 (GMT)
:*It looks like this project has been completed or abandoned, and I recently made an edit on some skills bundling the Applications sections this user added into the Notes sections, as there was some recurring info. Does anyone see the need to still have these two sections remain separate, or should it all be listed under on category "notes"? --ClangClangBoom (talk) 23:19, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
== Leveling Spots ==
These articles are now almost useless, so I am wondering if we should just delete all of the "_____ Leveling Spots" pages and the content from Leveling Spots and rebuild it from scratch. --Resplendent 09:41, 17 October 2010 (MDT)
:I agree, we should just rebuild it. It never had much structure in it anyway, this should be a good chance to start. — Steax(Talk) 09:51, 17 October 2010 (MDT)
::Transferring 2nd class info will be easy, but someone's gonna have to make up something for 3rd classes. :x Noah 22:42, 22 October 2010 (MDT)
:::I will be working on this beside my RG builds plan ^^ --Mathspy (talk) 01:52, 17 August 2012 (GMT)
::: Excuse me, I really nee some help. I screwed up with the Monk leveling spots page. I wanted to add to it but instead I screwed up, I tried to fix it.. but I ended up making it worse, please please, could a mod contact me or could someone that knows how to fix it? I'm really sorry.-Libbie ([User talk: Libbie|talk]])
== 'Not repeatable' template ==
Can we create a template for indicating non-repeatable quests? This would be useful for quests which you would assume are repeatable, but which aren't, such as the Angry Solo Hat and Indifferent Solo Hat quest. Richard 11:27, 18 December 2010 (MST)
:Or you could just put a {{Repeatable}} and say 'non-repeatable' on the specified quest. john talk to mespy me 16:05, 18 December 2010 (MST)
::Or you could make one for both. It would be a tad redundant, but it would make navigation easier, plus, it'd be simple to do. --ArcLumin 19:52, 29 December 2010 (MST)
== Images ==
Due to a security risk, we've had to temporarily disable the plugin that allows Thumbnail creation for images. Images can still be uploaded, but until the plugin is patched, new thumbnails cannot be created. We expect a patch to be forthcoming within a week or so. --Resplendent (talk) 23:22, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
:Any update on this? Thumbnails still don't generate. Toxn (talk) 01:47, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
::Should be working now Blueness (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
== Experience Amount Listed ==
A few major updates ago, iRO introduced the Base+VIP+Chaos exp amount. So my thoughts are that we should no longer add "VIP" experience amount, and just let the readers do the multiplication on their own. 
There has also existed 'VIP-exp events' where only VIP members got a bonus exp (+75% or +100% instead of the normal +50%). I have removed the VIP listing on quest guides I've come across, but I've seen some use the to include it.
Mosu - 18:00 June 13, 2017
:That is a good idea! Blueness (talk) 20:29, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
== Merge Classic and Renewal ==
So, Vienna and I want to merge the Classic and Renewal Wikis. Presently, the Renewal Wiki gets Users and Images from the Classic Wiki's database. The whole thing frankly is complicated and I'd rather life be simple.
There's few things that are radically different on these pages that couldn't be solved with a "pre renewal" section of the page. Like Assumptio, or Safety Wall, are two major skill changes that you'd just have both on one page I think. That or a wiki/Assumptio/prerenewal/ page.
I'll be discussing this on Discord as well. Blueness (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
== About this wiki ==
Welcome to the Renewal Wiki. This wiki is set aside from the main iW database and is geared specifically for Renewal. Please only add in information from the Renewal update. The user database and all pages have been duplicated from the old wiki, meaning that we still have lots of pre-renewal information. Please help get this information up to date. I will be filling in this section with information about how to specifically update pages on this wiki, to keep us all in sync. Thanks to all contributors for helping out! — Steax(Talk) 10:23, 17 September 2010 (MDT)
Notes:
* This discussion page can be used for all discussion about how the Wiki works; it's like a global version of Talk pages.
* This wiki will replace the current wiki when Renewal becomes the default state of all servers. For that reason, things like User pages should be edited here rather than the main wiki.
* If you're editing a page to bring it up to date with Renewal, but there are parts of the page that you have not modified, please enter this at the top of the unedited section: {{Template:Update_R}}. This will help us know where we still need to bring information up to date.
== Changes to Existing Pages ==
While we're already doing a large-scale edit on pretty much everything, and this wiki is currently still basically a "sandbox", lets use the opportunity to fix our currently cluttered pages. Most importantly, the class pages. Here are my current proposed guidelines for class pages. Please leave your own ideas or comments.
The following are the sections needed in each class. (New types in italics)
* All: Introduction, Job Change Quest, Skill Table, Equipment Table, Job Bonuses, ASPD Table, Leveling Areas
* First Class: Stats Table (see below)
* Second Class and, Transcendent Second Class: General Builds
* Third Class and final forms of Expanded Classes (TKM, SL, Ninja, GS, SN): Specific Builds
A lot of debate has surrounded whether or not to supply builds in First Class pages. I suggest adding in a Stats Table that lists the 6 basic stats and what role they play for this class, and provide links to the Build sections of the future classes. An Equipment Table is similar to the Skills Table but instead lists various equipment and split up by equipment type. Leveling Areas should link to Places and also take the form of a table.
Another thing I'd like to suggest is moving Class-related articles to their own pages. This includes stuff such as:
* Forging
* Brewing
* Rank System
and so forth. Basically, a class page should only have the sections listed above; anything else gets its own short section, with a link to the main article. This is it from me. I'll probably start editing a page for a guideline on this. Ideas? — Steax(Talk) 10:47, 17 September 2010 (MDT)
:I agree those related articles should've been split off originally. I'm not sure how useful an equipment table is going to be if we don't keep them constantly updated with the latest gears though. In the past that rarely happens. --Resplendent 14:05, 17 September 2010 (MDT)
:Should equipment tables be implemented in 1st class pages? I think it's useless unless someone stays as a perma-first class. john talk to me 17:26, 25 November 2010 (MST)
== Skill Page Guidelines ==
There's going to be a lot of these, and they're still kind of in a mess. So here are some basic guidelines, taken from previous pages, for making skill pages. (Granted, even the old pages aren't exactly on this guideline. Hopefully this will help in the future.)
A Skill page comprises of: (omit any unnecessary for a skill)
* The Skill Info template (copy this from another skill and do modifications, or from Template:Skill Info#Usage for a complete syntax)
* A Description section containing the crucial elements of the skill. What it does, what it requires, what affects it. Also notable mechanics (cannot be dispelled, bypasses DEF for physical skills, etc).
* A table depicting the effect of different levels of the skill. Any other relevant table follow.
* Damage Calculation section with mechanics on how damage is derived.
* Applications section with advice on how the skill usually fits into builds or how it can be used.
* Notes section including miscellaneous information. Anything else should be placed in subsections here.
Should be good for now. This is to clarify on some current problems on skill pages; important information crucial to the skill should always go in "Description". — Steax(Talk) 20:28, 27 September 2010 (MDT)
:I've added a link to the skill info template page in the above (for a more complete list of options for the infobox) --Stalker-ness 21:09, 27 September 2010 (MDT)
Category:Archive