Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-12-04

[2014/12/04 15:00] Jenna Felton: hi Gibson and Rex
[2014/12/04 15:00] Jonathan Yap: hi folks
[2014/12/04 15:00] Jenna Felton: Hello Maestro and Caleb
[2014/12/04 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi gibson
[2014/12/04 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2014/12/04 15:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/12/04 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
[2014/12/04 15:01] Caleb Linden: hey hey
[2014/12/04 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi jonathan
[2014/12/04 15:01] Jenna Felton: and Hi Simon :)
[2014/12/04 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2014/12/04 15:01] Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Caleb Linden! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/12/04 15:01] Simon Linden: Hello everyone
[2014/12/04 15:01] Rex Cronon: hi caleb
[2014/12/04 15:01] Inara Breen: Hi, Maestro, Simon.
[2014/12/04 15:01] Inara Breen: Hi, Caleb!
[2014/12/04 15:02] Caleb Linden: hi!, how's everybody?
[2014/12/04 15:02] Margithe: That was odd. I was wearing a "new skirt" that i haven't made
[2014/12/04 15:02] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[2014/12/04 15:02] Margithe: was made on friday 21 november...
[2014/12/04 15:03] SMILE (sigma.avro): hello all!
[2014/12/04 15:03] Margithe: ...really oddd..
[2014/12/04 15:03] Caleb Linden: ;et
[2014/12/04 15:03] Caleb Linden: let
[2014/12/04 15:03] Caleb Linden: s give it a min
[2014/12/04 15:03] Rex Cronon: hi sigma
[2014/12/04 15:04] SMILE (sigma.avro): is there a party here ?
[2014/12/04 15:04] Jenna Felton: you was ruthed Margithe
[2014/12/04 15:04] Jenna Felton: a meeting, Smile :)
[2014/12/04 15:04] Margithe: well kinda yes and no... i was wearing also a skirt that i made, but i haven't made it
[2014/12/04 15:04] Jenna Felton: ah
[2014/12/04 15:04] Caleb Linden: alrighty, let's start.
[2014/12/04 15:05] Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Sigma Avro! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/12/04 15:05] Caleb Linden: I have one quick update from this week. The only roll we had was the RC roll
[2014/12/04 15:05] Rex Cronon: sigma. it is a group meeting /office hour held by lindens
[2014/12/04 15:05] Caleb Linden: what it contained is listed here https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/12/04 15:05] SMILE (sigma.avro): was kiding)
[2014/12/04 15:06] Margithe: this feels unnatural, Whirly isn't here.))
[2014/12/04 15:06] Caleb Linden: oh yeah, it does
[2014/12/04 15:06] Rex Cronon: :)
[2014/12/04 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Somebody needs to take her spot on the dance floor!
[2014/12/04 15:07] Jenna Felton: i am not sure which it is
[2014/12/04 15:07] Caleb Linden: since it's been two weeks since our last office hours, i'd like to open the floor for topics.
[2014/12/04 15:07] Caleb Linden: oh and we do have another round of group chat planned :)
[2014/12/04 15:08] Caleb Linden: testing that is
[2014/12/04 15:08] Margithe: What is under improvement this time?
[2014/12/04 15:08] Jenna Felton: i have just two questions about mesh, probably after updates :)
[2014/12/04 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, some bugs are being fixed,
[2014/12/04 15:09] Jenna Felton: that is always good :)
[2014/12/04 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and simon also implemented a change where chat messages which are too out of date (>5min old) are dropped instead of being sent too late
[2014/12/04 15:09] Simon Linden: The group chat changes are pretty minor ... the one noticeable fix is that if it ever gets to the point where there was a bad message backup, it will drop old messages instead of sending them
[2014/12/04 15:09] Simon Linden: Like Maestro said
[2014/12/04 15:09] Margithe: is there an error message for that?
[2014/12/04 15:10] SMILE (sigma.avro): This is only for GROUP chats ?
[2014/12/04 15:10] Simon Linden: Nothing that's sent to the group or sender, no
[2014/12/04 15:10] Margithe: Hmmm..
[2014/12/04 15:10] Simon Linden: yes, this group chat only, not local chat or one-on-one IMs
[2014/12/04 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Group chats or conferences, Sigma
[2014/12/04 15:11] SMILE (sigma.avro): ok, better so
[2014/12/04 15:11] Rex Cronon: why don't u let the used decide if it wants the late messages or wants them dropped?
[2014/12/04 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, in the 'heavily delayed message' case, I wonder if that warning message about 'some members may have not received the message' would still appear
[2014/12/04 15:11] Rex Cronon: the user*
[2014/12/04 15:11] Margithe: i'd like to know at least that the messahe was dropped.
[2014/12/04 15:12] Margithe: message*
[2014/12/04 15:12] Lucia Nightfire: I'd like to see [Delayed # sec] in over due messages, heh
[2014/12/04 15:12] Margithe: But i can see that is an extra step
[2014/12/04 15:12] Simon Linden: The timeout is 5 minutes, you're going to have assumed it was lost long before that
[2014/12/04 15:12] Nal (nalates.urriah): If thar 'some did not receive' message goes out, wouldn't that encourage resends and worsen the problem?
[2014/12/04 15:12] arton Rotaru: if it doesen't show after half an hour, you know it has been dropped, easy peasy^^
[2014/12/04 15:12] Margithe: yeah, so instead the person send the same message 5 times thinking it was dropped
[2014/12/04 15:13] SMILE (sigma.avro): it is ,lost randomly, so when it last appearing, one usually resent it before any warming
[2014/12/04 15:13] SMILE (sigma.avro): lasts*
[2014/12/04 15:13] Jenna Felton: the viewer could keep track of sent messages and then handle a timeout of 5 minutes and when it does not see the message in group chat, then resend it
[2014/12/04 15:13] Jenna Felton: or denote the message as droped
[2014/12/04 15:14] Jonathan Yap: I have a question about that backlog:
[2014/12/04 15:14] Jonathan Yap: With a phone, sometimes you get "all circuits are busy"
[2014/12/04 15:14] SMILE (sigma.avro): I therefore belive 5 minutes is too long
[2014/12/04 15:14] Simon Linden: I really don't want the viewers to automatically resend messages ... that sounds like something that could go very wrong
[2014/12/04 15:14] Jonathan Yap: So instead of letting a backlog occur, how about blocking peole from sending in too many messages?
[2014/12/04 15:14] Nal (nalates.urriah): Do we see the echo of our message when others see it? Or do we not see anything until the message hits cue send, goes out?
[2014/12/04 15:14] Margithe: i agree that 5 minutes is too long too. if it's delayed, drop it after 2 minutes so i can re-send it :P
[2014/12/04 15:14] Jenna Felton: than just highlight the message so the user can send it again if important
[2014/12/04 15:15] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think you only see your own group chat message in the chat log when it's transmitted to the group
[2014/12/04 15:15] Jonathan Yap: The local server could see someone sending in too many lines and tell their viewer to "cease" for a little while
[2014/12/04 15:15] Rex Cronon: so this is for messages that u send to the group chat that never get to it?
[2014/12/04 15:16] Simon Linden: The backlogs haven't been caused by a flood of messages ... it's been due to other issues where the sending side of the server locked up
[2014/12/04 15:16] Simon Linden: /me thinks about adding a filter to drop every message with "chat lag" in it
[2014/12/04 15:16] Margithe: :P
[2014/12/04 15:16] Margithe: but thats your key word for looking for statistics!!
[2014/12/04 15:16] Simon Linden: this happened a few weeks back when we were doing that hardware upgrade
[2014/12/04 15:17] Simon Linden: for some reason that seemed to make the problem much worse
[2014/12/04 15:17] SMILE (sigma.avro): there could be a short sent timestamp
[2014/12/04 15:17] SMILE (sigma.avro): to aboid confusion in chats
[2014/12/04 15:17] SMILE (sigma.avro): Altough they may be fun
[2014/12/04 15:17] Simon Linden: and when we'd re-start the chat servers, they would discover they had a big pile of messages and start sending "is chat busted?" messages that were hours old
[2014/12/04 15:18] Margithe: maybe instead of us saying "chat lag" the chat server could inform the users that "messages are being dropped right now, try again later"
[2014/12/04 15:18] Jonathan Yap: If I am in a group and have not opened the group IM session, does my viewer still get messages about people leaving and joining ?
[2014/12/04 15:18] Lucia Nightfire: I would think
[2014/12/04 15:18] Simon Linden: You don't, Jonathan, but it will open for you when the first chat message goes through
[2014/12/04 15:19] Lucia Nightfire: ^
[2014/12/04 15:19] Simon Linden: So you log in ... you won't get the member updates as long as you don't open the window (either manually, or the viewer doing it because someone said something)
[2014/12/04 15:19] Simon Linden: But as soon as it's been opened, you're getting them
[2014/12/04 15:20] Simon Linden: and if you close it, you drop out so you don't get updates OR chat messages
[2014/12/04 15:20] Jonathan Yap: yes, thanks. So no room for improvement in that area.
[2014/12/04 15:20] Margithe: I think the "is chat busted?" question is interesting. because even if we kinda know that chat IS busted, we still seek some type of higher up confirmation that yes, it is busted, sit tight.
[2014/12/04 15:21] Simon Linden: I've found a problem there ... I don't know if people are chatting a little more lately, but I end up with too many groups open. I want to close them, but have them re-open if a chat message comes through
[2014/12/04 15:21] Simon Linden: We don't support that, as far as I know
[2014/12/04 15:21] Margithe: People are chatting more, since it's easier now.
[2014/12/04 15:21] SMILE (sigma.avro): does first message "goes through" as soon as one logs in ? I do not believe this
[2014/12/04 15:21] Jonathan Yap: simon, are you sure that is groups or a conference session?
[2014/12/04 15:21] Lucia Nightfire: I would hope taht would be an option, heh
[2014/12/04 15:22] Simon Linden: Those are groups, Jonathan ... it's anecdotal, but I agree. I think people are chatting a bit more in large groups because it's working a bit better.
[2014/12/04 15:22] Margithe: Oh, interesting, non-persistant closing of chat window
[2014/12/04 15:22] Jonathan Yap: I had looked into that issue a few years ago and thought I saw in the viewer were it tells the server "I am done with this group"
[2014/12/04 15:23] Gibson Firehawk: but in a chatty group wouldnt that be kind of useless since it would reopen again on every message?
[2014/12/04 15:23] Jonathan Yap: maybe that broke when CHUI came out, or there is something else going on
[2014/12/04 15:23] Simon Linden: my use case is for clubs and venues ... which send out one message every half hour or hour
[2014/12/04 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: as long as it is an option, not sole behaviour
[2014/12/04 15:23] Simon Linden: I want to get them, but I don't want a bunch of them open and taking up the left side of the Conversations window
[2014/12/04 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: as I would not want 99% of my groups repopening
[2014/12/04 15:23] Margithe: My use case are groups where they ask for support, but stay quiet sometimes for hours.
[2014/12/04 15:23] SMILE (sigma.avro): yes, so what is wake up time ?
[2014/12/04 15:23] Lucia Nightfire: *reopening
[2014/12/04 15:24] SMILE (sigma.avro): delay*
[2014/12/04 15:24] Simon Linden: Right Lucia ... I think there's a need for both "close, don't bother me again" and "close, but open for newmessages"
[2014/12/04 15:24] Lucia Nightfire: and
[2014/12/04 15:24] Lucia Nightfire: not just a single setting, but that setting per group
[2014/12/04 15:24] Simon Linden: yes, it definitely depends on the group
[2014/12/04 15:24] Lucia Nightfire: something on the group profile page you can check/uncheck
[2014/12/04 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Simon, that seems like it could be implemented purely viewer-side. Unless you want to unsubscribe from join/leave updates in the 2nd case..
[2014/12/04 15:25] Simon Linden: I don't know if we'll ever do it, but it's just something I noticed the other day
[2014/12/04 15:25] Simon Linden: well, it would be better if we got the server involved and stopped sending the member list updates
[2014/12/04 15:25] Margithe: I'm glad you use SL to notice :)
[2014/12/04 15:25] Simon Linden: My alt goes to a lot of live music in SL :)
[2014/12/04 15:26] Jenna Felton: attaching timestamps to messages can be handy. Than the viewer user could set the viewer to "not disturb by group messages" and then the viewer would go every 5 minutes the group servers asking if there are messages since this timestamp of last check and if so highlight the group as there is a discussion, without receiving the messages, and then the user would open that group chat to participate if needed
[2014/12/04 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): That would be kinda cool, Jenna
[2014/12/04 15:26] Jonathan Yap: /me misses the days Simon was allowed to go with his Linden account; people did not make any kind of a fuss. :)
[2014/12/04 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the chat log could sort by the sent timestamp rather than the order-of-received..
[2014/12/04 15:27] Margithe: Thats not too good Maestro
[2014/12/04 15:27] Jenna Felton: yes, that too
[2014/12/04 15:27] Jenna Felton: why not?
[2014/12/04 15:27] Margithe: i disagree. That makes messages appear in text already received and read
[2014/12/04 15:27] SMILE (sigma.avro): I tink a sent timestamp would be handy, viewer side
[2014/12/04 15:27] Margithe: Skype does it and it's bloody annoying
[2014/12/04 15:27] Nal (nalates.urriah): Sorting by time sent would decrease the challenge of figuring out who is talking to who
[2014/12/04 15:28] Lucia Nightfire: not following the rx and read bit
[2014/12/04 15:28] Margithe: it's the " but i said that like 10 minutes ago!" and then scroll up and read a message that wasn't there to begin with
[2014/12/04 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I was thinking of the case where somebody tells a joke, you reply with "lol", but there's a message in between about somebody's pet dying.
[2014/12/04 15:28] Rex Cronon: what if my time doesn't match your time? mine if if was sent later than yours yours could appear first
[2014/12/04 15:28] SMILE (sigma.avro): yes, fun
[2014/12/04 15:28] arton Rotaru: lol
[2014/12/04 15:28] Lucia Nightfire: you get that in open chat all the time
[2014/12/04 15:28] SMILE (sigma.avro): happesn often btw
[2014/12/04 15:29] Lucia Nightfire: not about pets dying but in and out of topic chat by lag
[2014/12/04 15:29] Margithe: the only way to implement it without having messages appear after reading the text, is that ALL messages wait until they cam come up in order.
[2014/12/04 15:29] Jenna Felton: the timestamp should be attached to message by the server, not the viewer sending it
[2014/12/04 15:29] Jenna Felton: so the times are the same then for every one
[2014/12/04 15:30] SMILE (sigma.avro): So, if when viewer sends a message, a time stamp is added, many things could be solved in the discussion
[2014/12/04 15:30] Lucia Nightfire: and you can have the option to have the chat sort itself by time too, which may be handy for teh savy
[2014/12/04 15:30] SMILE (sigma.avro): I believe timestamps seens are the one in world
[2014/12/04 15:30] Lucia Nightfire: but utterly confusing to the non-savy, hehe
[2014/12/04 15:30] Simon Linden: Jonathan - Lindens have been let out into the wild again : https://my.secondlife.com/kaffeeohnealles/snapshots/547f68808da57217ca000001
[2014/12/04 15:30] Jonathan Yap: does the packet protocol allow for expansion to add a binary time? Otherwise you will conversion issues
[2014/12/04 15:31] Jenna Felton: actualy a race condition in the group messages like the Maestro's example about the pet, is probaby by solve if you, when you answer to a message would click on the message and then the viewer sends the message with that timestamp or ID so all can see on what the LOL was sent, the joke or the pet dying message
[2014/12/04 15:32] Jenna Felton: by solve - can be solved only, when.....
[2014/12/04 15:32] Simon Linden: I looked at enforcing better order-of-delivery for messages and it looked pretty tough
[2014/12/04 15:32] Margithe: Skype does it even worse, they let you see your message appear in the correct order, even if it hasn't been received yet. It's so annoying, and made so many misunderstandings. because people don't see the text yet. SO you say " My cat just died" and someone replies to the joke above your post with a "lol". But in the log, they are laughing at you and your dead hairball.
[2014/12/04 15:33] Caleb Linden: oh man
[2014/12/04 15:33] Caleb Linden: timing is everything
[2014/12/04 15:33] Rex Cronon: u could stop somebody from sending anything until their message goes through
[2014/12/04 15:33] SMILE (sigma.avro): Well, I see much less than a few years ago messages arriving in reverse order
[2014/12/04 15:33] Jenna Felton: /me agrees with Smile
[2014/12/04 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: what I want is a "block sending message while the other person is typing" setting, heh
[2014/12/04 15:34] Margithe: usually when i see reverse order messages, it's almost always some network issue on my own side
[2014/12/04 15:34] Margithe: reverse order still happens, but it's pretty rare now after the first chat update
[2014/12/04 15:35] Simon Linden: I did change the sending logic in the chat servers ... it should be delivering faster in the normal case where it knows where you are
[2014/12/04 15:35] SMILE (sigma.avro): where you are ?
[2014/12/04 15:35] Simon Linden: in SL - what region you are on
[2014/12/04 15:35] SMILE (sigma.avro): what does it mean, IP adress of sender ?
[2014/12/04 15:35] SMILE (sigma.avro): ah, ok
[2014/12/04 15:36] Simon Linden: It's impractical for the server to look up and see where each recipient is for every message
[2014/12/04 15:36] Simon Linden: So it basically sends it to where you last were
[2014/12/04 15:36] Jonathan Yap: would it be better for the chat server to learn where you are as you log in and teleport around?
[2014/12/04 15:36] Simon Linden: and if you're not there, it then asks where you are and re-sends
[2014/12/04 15:36] Jonathan Yap: (or if you walk into another region)
[2014/12/04 15:36] Margithe: aah... so it's better to stay put, when chatting...
[2014/12/04 15:36] SMILE (sigma.avro): /me tought server knew always where avat is
[2014/12/04 15:37] Lucia Nightfire: I think its best the server does teh checking than your viewer telling it where you are, heh
[2014/12/04 15:37] Simon Linden: yes, but I don't think that would be practical
[2014/12/04 15:37] Simon Linden: there would be a lot of new updates for that
[2014/12/04 15:38] Jonathan Yap: How do Tor networks maintain a directory?
[2014/12/04 15:38] Jenna Felton: what if the sim i am on receives and relies the messages. Then i go to the next sim and the old sim sends that message there, and at same time reports the chat server, please send the message there in future
[2014/12/04 15:38] Margithe: /me thinks server asking where you are, if you aren't where you were last sounds so cute and polite.
[2014/12/04 15:38] SMILE (sigma.avro): haha
[2014/12/04 15:38] Lucia Nightfire: call forwarding
[2014/12/04 15:38] Jenna Felton: because the sim i was on last time knows where i went and can redeliver the message to that sim
[2014/12/04 15:38] Jonathan Yap: but where you went you may not have stayed in for very long
[2014/12/04 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: thats whats happening now right?
[2014/12/04 15:39] Jonathan Yap: you could geta long forwarding chain
[2014/12/04 15:39] Simon Linden: It doesn't quite work that way, Jenna ... it first sends to your old sim, which replies (to the chat server) "Jenna isn't here". The chat server then looks up where you are (which is another server request) and sends it there
[2014/12/04 15:39] Margithe: SO if you teleport a lot around, you will get chatlag?
[2014/12/04 15:39] Jenna Felton: that would go than two or three sims but not infinitelly long :)
[2014/12/04 15:39] Jenna Felton: ok
[2014/12/04 15:39] Rex Cronon: so what happens if u r ona combat sim, u get killed and u get sent home but your home sim is out so u get sent back to the combat sim...
[2014/12/04 15:39] Margithe: Like last friday, 50 linden friday... i did a sim every 15-30 seconds or so
[2014/12/04 15:40] Jenna Felton: when i teleport much i get chat lag anyways
[2014/12/04 15:40] Simon Linden: It's designed that way because forwarding, as you describe, would get ugly chasing you around
[2014/12/04 15:40] Jenna Felton: ok
[2014/12/04 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: rex I think you get sent to a info hub in that scenario
[2014/12/04 15:40] Jenna Felton: was just an idea
[2014/12/04 15:40] SMILE (sigma.avro): except if group chat is done on idependent server
[2014/12/04 15:40] Rex Cronon: nope. u get back to where u died
[2014/12/04 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: never seen taht
[2014/12/04 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: will have to try that next time
[2014/12/04 15:41] Rex Cronon: i guess your home sim never was out while u died at rausch:)
[2014/12/04 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: I don't die in rausch
[2014/12/04 15:42] Jenna Felton: when your home sim is offline and you died somewhere and send home i guess rather, you would be logged out
[2014/12/04 15:42] Margithe: wonder what happens if you die, but you are banned in the home sim. if you then get sent to a hub, or back to the combat simon
[2014/12/04 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: I always thought it was to the nearest info hub
[2014/12/04 15:42] arton Rotaru: it used to be something griefers liked to do
[2014/12/04 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: based on your maturity rating
[2014/12/04 15:42] arton Rotaru: being homeless to stay put
[2014/12/04 15:42] Duckie Dickins: yeah I think it's info hub
[2014/12/04 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Margithe, I think we send you to the nearest infohub and then reset your home location to that infohub, if you're banned from your home
[2014/12/04 15:43] Margithe: no, home isn't reset
[2014/12/04 15:43] Jenna Felton: people should be never homeless
[2014/12/04 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: that banned from teh home thing is new afaik
[2014/12/04 15:43] Margithe: different hubs every time
[2014/12/04 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: that was a fix done lest year or the year before iirc
[2014/12/04 15:43] SMILE (sigma.avro): depends on croud in infohub I suppose
[2014/12/04 15:43] SMILE (sigma.avro): ?
[2014/12/04 15:44] Margithe: maybe it was a fluke
[2014/12/04 15:44] Lucia Nightfire: so what shineys are we getting before new years? heh
[2014/12/04 15:44] Jenna Felton: LL should collect the mainland sims with the bridge, i mean the sim names and then all residents that have no set home yet become one of those sims as home region, with a home below the bridge
[2014/12/04 15:45] Margithe: lol
[2014/12/04 15:45] SMILE (sigma.avro): lol
[2014/12/04 15:45] Margithe: ...and the cornfield.
[2014/12/04 15:45] Simon Linden: /me takes notes
[2014/12/04 15:45] Jenna Felton: cornfield is used by experience tools :) but also good idea
[2014/12/04 15:46] Rex Cronon: no. ll should set default home to sandbox weapons testing (aka swt(
[2014/12/04 15:46] Lucia Nightfire: thats the cornfield game, but there is the old cornfield region
[2014/12/04 15:46] Jenna Felton: ah
[2014/12/04 15:46] Lucia Nightfire: Rex, that would be bad
[2014/12/04 15:46] SMILE (sigma.avro): would be nice welcome , lol Rex
[2014/12/04 15:46] Jonathan Yap: Do you have to be a beta tester to play that cornfield game?
[2014/12/04 15:46] Margithe: tell us about shinies :)
[2014/12/04 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: no
[2014/12/04 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: anyone can play
[2014/12/04 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: you just have to go to the portal and accept teh permissions and you're tp'd there
[2014/12/04 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: LR Portal Park 1 or 2
[2014/12/04 15:48] Jenna Felton: that are linden realms
[2014/12/04 15:48] Simon Linden: It was built for fun and to test out experience tools features
[2014/12/04 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: that portal park has portals to 6 or 7 game regions
[2014/12/04 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: not just Linden Realsm
[2014/12/04 15:48] Jenna Felton: i was thinking cornfield game is nother experience
[2014/12/04 15:48] Jenna Felton: another
[2014/12/04 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: it is
[2014/12/04 15:49] Jenna Felton: ok, thank you
[2014/12/04 15:49] Lucia Nightfire: there are a few experience based game regions
[2014/12/04 15:49] Lucia Nightfire: so what shineys are we getting before new years? heh
[2014/12/04 15:50] Caleb Linden: well, the shinies scheduled for next week's RC will be experience fix related.
[2014/12/04 15:50] Simon Linden: Well ... Oz has mentioned in user group that he wants to get experience tools out before the end of the year ... no promises, but he did mention it
[2014/12/04 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: like what fixes?
[2014/12/04 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: as there are many imo
[2014/12/04 15:50] Jenna Felton: that is cool
[2014/12/04 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: *many bugs
[2014/12/04 15:51] Simon Linden: they'll be in the release notes, I assume
[2014/12/04 15:51] Caleb Linden: yeah. need to put that together.
[2014/12/04 15:51] Lucia Nightfire: there hasn't even been any word on pricing yet I doubt it would be ready by then
[2014/12/04 15:52] Lucia Nightfire: there hasn't been any Linden comments on the beta group in months
[2014/12/04 15:52] arton Rotaru: pricing about extra space in the db?
[2014/12/04 15:52] Caleb Linden: i have no idea
[2014/12/04 15:52] Lucia Nightfire: not to mention the exp viewer hasn't been merged in as long either
[2014/12/04 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: pricing on exp keys, and kvp store sizing
[2014/12/04 15:53] Jenna Felton: when the prize is reasonable, i sould be ok with it :)
[2014/12/04 15:53] Margithe: pricing O.o
[2014/12/04 15:53] arton Rotaru: huh
[2014/12/04 15:53] Jenna Felton: would*
[2014/12/04 15:53] arton Rotaru: you have to pay to use experience tools?
[2014/12/04 15:54] SMILE (sigma.avro): to deliver one, I think
[2014/12/04 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: my main concern is if we're going to get grid wide keys or not, I need unrestricted access to my kvp store abroad, not bound to a parcel with the exp explicitly allowed
[2014/12/04 15:54] Simon Linden: Not with the first release, Lucia
[2014/12/04 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: I know, heh
[2014/12/04 15:54] Rex Cronon: when people pay with pennies how resonable can pricing be:(
[2014/12/04 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: about as reasonable as tier fees, rex
[2014/12/04 15:54] SMILE (sigma.avro): /me has no bitcoins
[2014/12/04 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: heh
[2014/12/04 15:55] Margithe: ugh.
[2014/12/04 15:55] Simon Linden: I promise it will be less than tier fees
[2014/12/04 15:55] Jenna Felton: an experience is anyways a "child" of a special group, like a ropeplay sim or so, so the costs can be subdivided to that group of people probably
[2014/12/04 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: experiences aren't buond to a group
[2014/12/04 15:55] Jenna Felton: must not be too much to scare people away, though
[2014/12/04 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: *bound
[2014/12/04 15:55] Margithe: HAHA like roleplay groups aren't already dying from the burden of tier
[2014/12/04 15:55] SMILE (sigma.avro): can it be owned by a group ?
[2014/12/04 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: association with a group isn't explicit in anything
[2014/12/04 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: just in name only
[2014/12/04 15:56] Jenna Felton: i mean not a SL group
[2014/12/04 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: none of teh exp functions require a group be assigned
[2014/12/04 15:56] Jenna Felton: a group of residents, creating the experience and maintaining it, doing stuff for it, scripting and so on
[2014/12/04 15:56] Margithe: no, but still. roleplay isn't exactly a cash cow.
[2014/12/04 15:56] Jenna Felton: not really a special SL group
[2014/12/04 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: only contributors are anything close to that
[2014/12/04 15:57] Margithe: i'd say only gambling or close-to-gambling venues are going to benefit then
[2014/12/04 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: idt I'll ever use them thouigh
[2014/12/04 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: at least until the blocked list jira is considered, heh
[2014/12/04 15:58] Margithe: Sad that it has to be paygated from the areas that could be revitalized.
[2014/12/04 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: imo, the kvp store is the highest benefit with experiences
[2014/12/04 15:58] Simon Linden: We know this first release isn't perfect and doesn't have the full feature set we'd love to build, but it's a start. Hopefully we'll see some usages and those will show it's promising for more attention and features
[2014/12/04 15:59] Lucia Nightfire: but the one-time permissions request is close second
[2014/12/04 15:59] arton Rotaru: sounds more like a "winner" like pathfinding was :p
[2014/12/04 15:59] Lucia Nightfire: it is
[2014/12/04 16:00] Lucia Nightfire: definitely
[2014/12/04 16:00] Jenna Felton: i am also interested in what would be made with it
[2014/12/04 16:00] Lucia Nightfire: more use cases thats for sure
[2014/12/04 16:00] Jenna Felton: very interested
[2014/12/04 16:00] Jenna Felton: there is stil a pathfinding project on my todo list that would generate a little revolution in SL :)
[2014/12/04 16:01] Lucia Nightfire: when I get a grid wide key I will say goodbye to llEmail() thats for sure
[2014/12/04 16:01] Jenna Felton: but i somehow not get to it to make
[2014/12/04 16:01] Simon Linden: I need to head off for another meeting .. so thanks everyone for coming out today
[2014/12/04 16:01] Margithe: paygate it from the start and it will only reach areas where it can be exploited for a monetary winning. not for an expiriences sake.
[2014/12/04 16:01] arton Rotaru: safe it for the Next Gen platform ^^
[2014/12/04 16:01] Caleb Linden: Thanks guys! Ciao all.
[2014/12/04 16:01] SMILE (sigma.avro): Thnaks Simon
[2014/12/04 16:01] Jenna Felton: oh, no chat lag test this time
[2014/12/04 16:01] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[2014/12/04 16:01] SMILE (sigma.avro): Thanks Caled
[2014/12/04 16:01] Simon Linden: See you next time
[2014/12/04 16:01] Margithe: Thanks for the meeting!
[2014/12/04 16:01] arton Rotaru: we didn't test the chat
[2014/12/04 16:01] Jenna Felton: have a good week and weekend Simon
[2014/12/04 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Me too.. thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/12/04 16:01] Rex Cronon: tc caleb
[2014/12/04 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh
[2014/12/04 16:01] Simon Linden: ooops, chat
[2014/12/04 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so we didn't :)
[2014/12/04 16:01] Rex Cronon: tc maestro
[2014/12/04 16:01] Lucia Nightfire: I would assume an exp w/o a kvp store would be priced very reasonably
[2014/12/04 16:01] SMILE (sigma.avro): Thanks Maestro
[2014/12/04 16:01] Simon Linden: ah - ok, I'll be late
[2014/12/04 16:01] Caleb Linden: hehe
[2014/12/04 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay let's do this!
[2014/12/04 16:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day
[2014/12/04 16:02] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2014/12/04 16:02] SMILE (sigma.avro): you to Rex
[2014/12/04 16:02] Rex Cronon: i g2g. have fun
[2014/12/04 16:02] Lucia Nightfire: I assume the pricing will bracket depending on the storage size you need
[2014/12/04 16:59] Object: whispers: ... Mmmm... ice cold milk !
[2014/12/04 16:59] A&A Wayne Hair 1: Ready
[2014/12/04 16:59] Second Life: Entering god mode, level 200