Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.08.26

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Duckie Dickins 	Hexapoda 	Jenna Felton
Kitto Flora 	Lexbot Sinister 	Lucia Nightfire
Melvin Starbrook	Mona Eberhardt 	Nalates Urriah
Oz Linden 	Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon
Simon Linden 	Tankmaster Finesmith	Vivienne Daguerre
Your answer 	Yuzuru Jewell 	
== Transcript ==
[12:00] Simon Linden: Hi everyone
[12:01] Hexapoda: Hello
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi simon
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Simon.
[12:01] Duckie Dickins: Back....Lex is having some issue with her AV not being able to take items off.....character test didnt help at all either....RLV was turned off to make sure.....she's currently flushing her cache so she can get sorted out to come to the meeting. :)
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Duckie.
[12:01] Simon Linden: Starting with release news, this week's info is here : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-08-25/td-p/2808852
[12:01] Simon Linden: The main channel was updated today with a crash fix that was on the RCs
[12:02] VISTA ANIMATIONS *HUD 3.4* URBAN MALE AO V2 U: MAIN AO OFF
[12:02] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Now that crash fix is on main channel, can you tell us what the crash was?
[12:02] Simon Linden: and tomorrow the RC channels will get another maintenance update
[12:03] Simon Linden: I'd rather not dig into the details now
[12:03] Lucia Nightfire: I know what it didn't fix, heh
[12:04] Simon Linden: oh, there are lots of things it didn't fix
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: talking crash modes
[12:04] Simon Linden: Oz, did you want to talk about the testing at https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Texture_And_Mesh_Fetch_Testing ?
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: I have a question on the CDN thing too
[12:05] Simon Linden: sure, fire away
[12:05] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Oz.
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: why aren't sound assets also included?
[12:05] Oz Linden: at some point they may be
[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: yay
[12:06] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): CDN is win. I spent all day yesterday testing it.
[12:06] Duckie Dickins: sound assets could be good, yes
[12:06] Oz Linden: by far textures and meshes are the bulk of the requests, so that's where the big win is
[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: Whirls, are all those meshes in that test region unique assets?
[12:06] Duckie Dickins: some regions won't load certain sounds with a lighter of mine.....they never seem to play
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: they're all the same tetrhedron visual, so I hadn't a clue
[12:07] Simon Linden: Do they play on others, Duckie?
[12:07] Oz Linden: yes, they're unique
[12:07] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): My test results are here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mn4o59z4B0QGqBaOOH9VrEFYUZZPi0pFAv1ZYJQiHRs/edit (hopefully everyone can see that)
[12:07] Lexbot Sinister: ((i just had a blargh sim glitch.. ))
[12:08] Qie Niangao: wow
[12:08] Oz Linden: It's important to note, lest the bloggers here build up expectations too soon...
[12:08] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): The default viewer seems just as fast on a CDN region as the pipelining viewer on a classic region
[12:09] Hexapoda: How do I test CDN, is there any compiled viwer for it?
[12:09] Lexbot Sinister: ((pardon me, but changing outfits and doing character test landed me with this))
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: I resent that statement... :P
[12:09] Oz Linden: these regions are relying on a test infrastructure that won't scale
[12:09] Duckie Dickins: yes they do play on other sims...usually when a sim is loaded with avatars it won't play
[12:09] Simon Linden: Details on testing are here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Texture_And_Mesh_Fetch_Testing
[12:09] Oz Linden: we have a plan for how to do a scalable solution, and believe that the numbers will be just as good, but that isn't actually built yet
[12:09] Simon Linden: "No special viewer support required"
[12:10] Duckie Dickins: it's mostly this zippo sound that has issue...it plays fine here. :)
[12:10] Simon Linden: yeah, I heard it
[12:10] Hexapoda: Oh, I was 1/2 sleeping :)
[12:10] Nalates Urriah: So, you have to have a CDN viewer and region to try it... but regular use in non-CDN regions won't see much? or did I misunderstand?
[12:10] Oz Linden: there's no special support needed for this test setup, but if we go ahead with the plan we've got now, there _will_ be viewer changes needed
[12:11] Oz Linden: Those changes will be _really_ easy, and we'll make them available separately from everything else so that TPVs can merge them quickly.
[12:13] Mona Eberhardt: \0/
[12:14] Oz Linden: I am pretty excited about this project; it's something I've wanted to see done since I got here
[12:15] Rex Cronon: u wanted to use CDN since u started working at ll?
[12:16] Duckie Dickins: How will the CDNs get updates.....I upload a new texture...is it distributed right away to the various CDNs or do they have to request it from the asset server the first time a CDN needs it and after that it's cached there?
[12:16] Oz Linden: When you update a texture, you're creating a new asset with a new id
[12:16] Oz Linden: the CDN is really just a highly distributed cache
[12:17] Oz Linden: rather than a simulator-specific cache in our data center, it will be an SL-wide cache very very close to you
[12:18] Mona Eberhardt: "very very close to us? As in... Our ISP's data centres?
[12:18] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): My ping to the CDN server was about 30ms. My usual ping sim is 160-180 ms heh
[12:18] Simon Linden: so if someone in the same part of the world has fetched that texture, your loading will be faster
[12:18] Oz Linden: so yes, the first time someone on the same CDN node you're using requests it, the asset will be pulled from us, but after that it will be served locally
[12:18] Oz Linden: my ping time to the simulators is about 110ms, and to my local CDN node is around 10ms
[12:18] Vivienne Daguerre smiles...
[12:18] Vivienne Daguerre: sounds great
[12:19] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): The 1st run I did on the CDN regions was incredably slow, but I guess thats expected.
[12:19] Oz Linden: that makes a big difference - also, the CDN servers are better at this than our simulator host caches are :-)
[12:19] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): I was probably the 1st person using my nearest CDN
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: ^
[12:19] Oz Linden: almost certainly, Whirly
[12:20] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): But yeah, after that initial run, it was pretty impressive
[12:20] Rex Cronon: so u guys need help filling all those local CDN? would a script that goes through all possible textures uuid help;)
[12:21] Oz Linden: probably not, Rex :-D
[12:21] Qie Niangao: presumable sometime around heat-death of the universe, stuff should be *really* fast. :p
[12:21] Simon Linden: Just fly around all of SL and look at everything, then it will be on your CDN :P
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: it would help someone in teh same household, city, area geographicall, heh
[12:22] Oz Linden: It may well work out that this will be coming out at the same time as our pipeline support; so you'll get two improvements
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: ETA? heh
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: RC/release
[12:24] Duckie Dickins: tomorrow!.. :D or several tomorrows from now....several several
[12:24] Oz Linden: A bit to early to have a good prediction
[12:24] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): "soon"? :D
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: "SOON"
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: I forgot the trademark
[12:24] Duckie Dickins: Coming soon to a simulator near you!
[12:25] Simon Linden: http://8ball.ofb.net/answers.html
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: lmao
[12:26] Simon Linden: Maybe we can have an object here to click on and get "when will it ship" answers
[12:26] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): lol
[12:26] Mona Eberhardt: I hope I'm not interrupting your flow, Oz... But I was asked today at work if SL supports SLI/Crossfire "properly". I didn't know what to answer.
[12:26] Oz Linden: "When it works"
[12:26] Melvin Starbrook: it sseemshandy :))
[12:26] Oz Linden: Well, you're ahead of me, Mona - I don't understand the question
[12:27] Vivienne Daguerre: I think it has to do with the configuration of dual ATI video cards
[12:27] Nalates Urriah: I don't know the Lab supports it, but users in the forum have explained how to make it work.
[12:27] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): SLI/Crossfire isn't supported
[12:27] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-7964
[12:27] Lucia Nightfire: dat Whirls
[12:27] Mona Eberhardt: If having two or more graphics cards in an SLI (for Nvidia) or Crossfire (AMD) configuration will help performance.
[12:27] Nalates Urriah: The big boost is in texture decompressions.
[12:27] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[12:28] Oz Linden: I have no idea
[12:28] Melvin Starbrook: Hello, Object!
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: 1 minute, 3 seconds and a jira ref was returned after the question
[12:29] Kitto Flora: Simon, any idea what that object is that I sent you a notecard about?
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: Wow, that JIRA is old enough to vote, Whirly!
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: (the one about SLI and Crossfire)
[12:29] Mona Eberhardt: Maybe the time has come for it to be shown some love, Oz?
[12:30] Tankmaster Finesmith: why?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: what % of peopel run dual gfx cards?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: or dual monitors?
[12:30] Duckie Dickins: sounds more like a job for the client dev meeting.
[12:31] Mona Eberhardt: Sure does, Duckie. However, I needed to have an answer by tomorrow.
[12:32] Oz Linden: then the answer is "try it and see", I'm afraid
[12:32] Mona Eberhardt: I see.
[12:32] Tankmaster Finesmith: why tomorrow?
[12:32] Oz Linden: besides, even if I said something else, "try it and see" would be the right thing to od
[12:32] Oz Linden: s/od/do/
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: ddos?
[12:33] Duckie Dickins: heh
[12:33] Qie Niangao: I would have thought nVidia and AMD would have given up on that architecture by now, but I suppose it's relatively cheap to build and a way to sell more cards
[12:33] Kitto Flora: Did Simon fall asleep?
[12:34] Duckie Dickins: regular expression for substitution.....change od to do
[12:34] Mona Eberhardt: Because that's when they wanted it. *shrugs*
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: I would think LED screens and gpu's would have evolved to make SLI redundant
[12:34] Qie Niangao: As a practical matter, they have.
[12:34] Melvin Starbrook: maybe he busy making an 8 ball
[12:35] When will it ship?: Hello, Avatar!
[12:35] When will it ship?: Who knows?
[12:35] Simon Linden: I'm awake, really :P
[12:36] Duckie Dickins: Hello Object!
[12:36] Kitto Flora: Simon, any idea what that object is that I sent you a notecard about?
[12:36] Simon Linden: No Kitto, I haven't looked into it
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: Simon has there been any changing to code around internal prim counting or streaming/server/physics costs or cleanup in the last few months?
[12:36] Simon Linden: if it's not causing a problem it's going to be very low on the priority list.
[12:37] Kitto Flora: OK
[12:37] Simon Linden: No Lucy, I don't think that has changed at all
[12:37] Kitto Flora: Maybe the collective experience here knows what it/they are. I'll display a picture
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: been seeing issues with either land impact increases that cause either temp mesh or physical legacy prims to leave "gaps" of unaccounted available prims in regions
[12:38] When will it ship?: Ready
[12:38] When will it ship?: Very doubtful.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Forget about it.
[12:38] When will it ship?: My sources say no.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Very doubtful.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Probably.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Probably.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Without a doubt.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Definitely not.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Cannot predict now.
[12:38] When will it ship?: Signs point to yes.
[12:38] Duckie Dickins: There should be a way to change the default script so that when I make a new script it'll use my comment headers template....I sorta do it with firestorm's LSL preprocessor..but it would be nice if a new script might say like "Hello Professor Falken" or whatever you'd like. :)
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: where the parcel says theres # available prims, but you can't rez anymore due to full sim returned, and its not a temp overflow either from what I see
[12:39] Kitto Flora: If you look in the diplayed picture above my av, above the horizon line you can see 2 green spheres. They are not editable, not Sensor() able, and contain script(s)
[12:39] Lexbot Sinister: it's not the regular " can't rez object something something causing trouble"?
[12:39] Kitto Flora: They are not always 'there'
[12:39] Kitto Flora: Sometimes only one
[12:40] Qie Niangao: Kitto, how do you know they contain scripts?
[12:40] Kitto Flora: And often only on av can see them
[12:40] Kitto Flora: Beacons, Qui
[12:40] Simon Linden: I forget where that default script text comes from ... I think it's copied from some ancient script. I don't know if the message from the viewer has any info that would let you insert a custom one
[12:40] Rex Cronon: they r not in same sim kitto?
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: Lex, it isn't teh "has caused trouble in this region" bug which is typically centered around physics memory levels
[12:40] Tankmaster Finesmith: its hard coded in the viewer i believe
[12:41] Qie Niangao: oh, this is mainland, so they wouldn't show in top scripts anyway
[12:41] Lexbot Sinister: " hello world" isn't that the first programming language thing?
[12:41] Kitto Flora: They are in the same sim I am in Purple. They are over Maintenance land and exceed the return time
[12:41] Tankmaster Finesmith: yes
[12:41] Rex Cronon: how many prims kitto?
[12:41] Kitto Flora: Rex: I cant tell - no way to edit. If you area select the object it vanishes
[12:41] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Not a clue Kitto
[12:42] When will it ship?: Ready
[12:42] Rex Cronon: maybe they r replicators?
[12:42] Duckie Dickins: could be replicators spawning and killing it's parents so fast that by the time you select it, it's gone
[12:42] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Hmm if objects get returned and you arnt cammed on them when they get returned, they often leave "ghosts" behind. Youll see the objects until you click on them
[12:43] Duckie Dickins: but i think the throttles take care of that these days
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: go to the region, Plum and rez it there, its sadly the only public access Linden sandbox left with scripts off at the region level
[12:43] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): They poof when clicked on. Could it be that?
[12:43] Kitto Flora: They have been appearing on and off for weeks.
[12:43] When will it ship?: Ready
[12:43] Rex Cronon: r they physical?
[12:43] Kitto Flora: Alwyas in the same 2 places
[12:43] Kitto Flora: No - Phantim
[12:44] Kitto Flora: PhantOm even
[12:44] Duckie Dickins: maybe we all go look after the meeting. :)
[12:44] Lexbot Sinister: yay fieldtrip!
[12:44] Qie Niangao: yay!
[12:44] Rex Cronon: it would be interesting to see them:)
[12:44] Lucia Nightfire: reminds me
[12:44] Melvin Starbrook: YAY!
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: whens the pile on for CDN?
[12:45] Yuzuru Jewell: Please show SLURL of it, Kitto.
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: wasn't one talked about?
[12:45] Kitto Flora: Don't expect too much - appearance is random. Last time I could soldly see them, this AM, I TP in an Alt and the Alt could not see them. For an hour or so
[12:45] Oz Linden: We don't need a pile on
[12:45] Simon Linden: I wonder if it's some sort of land scanner
[12:46] Kitto Flora looks for a slurl
[12:46] Oz Linden: Getting individual test results - especially from places far from Phoenix - is interesting and helpful, but we already know that the test setup will probably fall over under stress
[12:47] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Test regions are locked to 3 avies
[12:47] Kitto Flora: Purple<128,230,1001> is the location, look NE
[12:47] Rex Cronon: sometimes IMing the owner / creator is the fastest way to find out what an object does. that is if u can select it in edit mode:)
[12:48] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Kitto.
[12:48] Melvin Starbrook: hihi is close
[12:49] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): If you see them, don't edit them so they poof, try changing group tag instead and see if they still poof
[12:49] Simon Linden: I'm happy to park here for a bit but we seem to have run out of questions and topics, so let's close the meeting now unless there's anything else ... ?
[12:49] Your answer: Go for it!
[12:49] Rex Cronon: we go visit green orbs;)
[12:50] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon, Oz, all... have fun.
[12:50] Your answer: No - well, maybe
[12:50] Simon Linden: Have fun ... if there are issues its' best to file an AR on the objects
[12:50] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon and Oz.
[12:50] Mona Eberhardt: Thanks, Oz and Simon.
[12:50] MISSING STRING (whirly.fizzle): Ty Lindens
[12:50] Your answer: Forget about it.
[12:50] Rex Cronon: tc simon
[12:50] Rex Cronon: tc oz
[12:50] Your answer: I have my doubts.
[12:50] Melvin Starbrook: thank you :))
[12:50] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good conversation
[12:50] Duckie Dickins: thanks lindens
[12:50] Hexapoda: Where has you hide Baker?
[12:50] Your answer: Outlook not so good.
[12:50] Your answer: Outlook good.
[12:50] Rex Cronon: tc all
[12:50] Your answer: Are you kidding?
[12:50] Your answer: It is decidedly so.
[12:51] Your answer: I have my doubts.
[12:51] Your answer: Looking good!
[12:51] Your answer: No - well, maybe
[12:51] Your answer: You will have to wait.
[12:51] Your answer: Don't bet on it.
[12:51] Your answer: Forget about it.
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: regionsayto
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: ftw
[12:51] Your answer: My sources say no.
[12:51] Kitto Flora: I will go to the platform in Purple. Anyone wants a TP, IM me
[12:51] Simon Linden: yeah, I'm about to convert that, I think :P
[12:51] Duckie Dickins: the magic 8 ball needs say "Need more caffeine...try again" :D
[12:51] Rex Cronon: so group meeting is over. right?
[12:51] Hexapoda: Where has LL hide Baker?
[12:51] Your answer: Are you kidding?
[12:52] Simon Linden: We're not hiding him, Hexapoda ... he's busy working on some back-end systems
[12:52] Hexapoda: Bad ball :D
[12:52] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[12:52] Hexapoda: Good to know.
[12:52] Hexapoda: take care now.
[12:52] Rex Cronon: that thing talks too much
[12:53] Your answer: Ready
[12:53] Your answer: You will have to wait.
[12:53] Your answer: Very doubtful.
[12:53] Your answer: My reply is no.
[12:53] Your answer: Outlook not so good.
[12:54] Jenna Felton: i also have to go. take care everybody and have a great week :)
[12:54] Simon Linden: See you next time
[12:54] Yuzuru Jewell: See you, Jenna.
[12:54] Mona Eberhardt: Take care, Simon.
[12:54] Rex Cronon: bye.
Simulator_User_Group
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