Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-01-17

[2013/01/17 15:02] Maestro Linden: Hi guys
[2013/01/17 15:02] Nal (nalates.urriah): Hi
[2013/01/17 15:02] Jonathan Yap: packet loss is not always 0 though
[2013/01/17 15:02] Inara Breen: Hi, Maestro, Caleb
[2013/01/17 15:02] Maestro Linden: Let's get started
[2013/01/17 15:02] MartinRJ Fayray: same here, Jonathan
[2013/01/17 15:02] Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[2013/01/17 15:02] arton Rotaru: mine is up to 100%
[2013/01/17 15:03] Maestro Linden: First, server updates
[2013/01/17 15:03] Rex Cronon: greetings everybody
[2013/01/17 15:03] Inara Breen: Hi, Rex
[2013/01/17 15:03] Maestro Linden: we had nothing new for the main channel this week, since there were issues with the threaded region crossing code on the RCs
[2013/01/17 15:04] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2013/01/17 15:04] Maestro Linden: We hit a bit of a snag on Wednesday, when we originally planned to roll the RC channels
[2013/01/17 15:04] Maestro Linden: there was an infrastructure problem at the time, so we didn't want to do a sim roll
[2013/01/17 15:05] Maestro Linden: so at about 7:20AM, we gave up waiting for the problem to fix itself, and rescheduled the rolls for today
[2013/01/17 15:05] Maestro Linden: I believe the rolls today were without any major incident
[2013/01/17 15:06] Maestro Linden: Bluesteel and Letigre got the new interest list code
[2013/01/17 15:06] Maestro Linden: there haven't been any BUG reports about that, so I guess it's doing well?
[2013/01/17 15:06] Inara Breen: Are the release note out of sync? The forum post refers to 13.01.14.268960 - BlueSteel is showing 13.01.14.269041
[2013/01/17 15:07] Maestro Linden: ah, I must've mistyped
[2013/01/17 15:08] Maestro Linden: or rather, didn't update the notes for the latest change
[2013/01/17 15:08] Maestro Linden: I'll fix that now Inara, thanks.
[2013/01/17 15:08] Inara Breen: so did I.. that 14 should've been an 11... *looks at fingers
[2013/01/17 15:08] Maestro Linden: there was one last bug that they fixed early this week, after I typed up the notes
[2013/01/17 15:09] arton Rotaru: one last bug^^
[2013/01/17 15:09] Maestro Linden: It was something like...
[2013/01/17 15:09] arton Rotaru: the very last bug of second life :p
[2013/01/17 15:09] Rex Cronon: it needs a monument:)
[2013/01/17 15:09] Maestro Linden: if another avatar region-crosses while sitting on an object, they'll temporarily disappear to other avatars
[2013/01/17 15:09] Rex Cronon: oh. the red box bug:)
[2013/01/17 15:10] MartinRJ Fayray: the last bug, everything else won't be fixed because fixing it would break content.
[2013/01/17 15:10] MartinRJ Fayray: =)
[2013/01/17 15:10] Inara Breen: Last bug, ever? Fix it! Ship it!... oh, wait....
[2013/01/17 15:11] Lares Carter: Sorry I am late - can someone please pass me a copy of the first minutes?
[2013/01/17 15:11] MartinRJ Fayray: aye Lares
[2013/01/17 15:11] Rex Cronon: just to make sure. u fixd this?
[2013/01/17 15:12] Maestro Linden: Should be fixed Rex
[2013/01/17 15:12] Rex Cronon: cool:)
[2013/01/17 15:13] Maestro Linden: Since the main channel has that 'you get disconnected from a whole region 50 seconds after you leave it' bug, just 1 avatar briefly disappearing isn't such a big deal
[2013/01/17 15:13] Maestro Linden: but we were glad to have it fixed in time
[2013/01/17 15:14] Maestro Linden: Also, Magnum got a new maint-server project
[2013/01/17 15:14] Maestro Linden: which mostly had bugfixes
[2013/01/17 15:14] Maestro Linden: the estate ban code was cleaned up, and should hopefully be more robust
[2013/01/17 15:15] MartinRJ Fayray: great news
[2013/01/17 15:15] Maestro Linden: also there was a fix for SVC-7996, which is related to a viewer feature Jonathan wanted to add
[2013/01/17 15:15] Maestro Linden: the sim was ignoring one of the inputs from the viewer when the viewer creates a script in an object
[2013/01/17 15:16] Jonathan Yap: I tested that fix and was very very happy to see it \o/
[2013/01/17 15:16] Maestro Linden: Cool, does it work well with your viewer, Jonathan?
[2013/01/17 15:16] Jonathan Yap: yes, it worked perfectly, now the whole new feature set can move ahead
[2013/01/17 15:16] MartinRJ Fayray: Maestro I have a request: could we get an updated keywords.txt file, please?
[2013/01/17 15:16] MartinRJ Fayray: it wasn't updated in about a year
[2013/01/17 15:17] MartinRJ Fayray: there are alot of new features missing
[2013/01/17 15:17] Maestro Linden: Basically, it's so that any time you hit the 'new script' button, the next-owner permissions on the script match something from viewer preferences (right?)
[2013/01/17 15:17] Jonathan Yap: yes, that is correct
[2013/01/17 15:17] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That is my understanding
[2013/01/17 15:17] Jonathan Yap: That change was for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-68?
[2013/01/17 15:17] Jonathan Yap: ( As a Builder, I want that ability to set default permissions on creation of objects, clothing, scripts, notecards, etc.)
[2013/01/17 15:18] Jonathan Yap: So now default permissions can be applied to new scripts
[2013/01/17 15:18] arton Rotaru: like the upload perms?
[2013/01/17 15:18] Jonathan Yap: yes
[2013/01/17 15:18] Jonathan Yap: but this covers everything you can create
[2013/01/17 15:18] arton Rotaru: nice
[2013/01/17 15:18] Jonathan Yap: The test plan is huge
[2013/01/17 15:18] Maestro Linden: Martin, is that the file for the LSL editor syntax highlighting?
[2013/01/17 15:19] MartinRJ Fayray: yes
[2013/01/17 15:19] Jonathan Yap: We talked about this at Oz's meeting yesterday, getting that data from the server via a cap
[2013/01/17 15:19] Maestro Linden: Okay, I'll pass that on. I think there are schemes to improve how the viewer gets the list of keywords..
[2013/01/17 15:20] Nal (nalates.urriah): Wasn't Andrew working on that?
[2013/01/17 15:20] Jonathan Yap: Ima was there. He was working on it 9 months ago, and will pick up that project
[2013/01/17 15:20] MartinRJ Fayray: yes but that project didn't make significant progress in a long while
[2013/01/17 15:20] MartinRJ Fayray: as far as I've been told
[2013/01/17 15:20] Jonathan Yap: Ima was off doing other things, but now he is back and wants to move ahead
[2013/01/17 15:20] Rex Cronon: does this keywords file also include all the lsl function names?
[2013/01/17 15:21] arton Rotaru: andrew had more interest in the interest list .p
[2013/01/17 15:21] MartinRJ Fayray: Ima told me he is waiting for the server-side changes to progress
[2013/01/17 15:21] Jonathan Yap: Determining what those server changes have to be will be the first step
[2013/01/17 15:21] MartinRJ Fayray: thank you Maestro
[2013/01/17 15:22] Maestro Linden: /me nods
[2013/01/17 15:23] Maestro Linden: Also, that maint-server includes proper support to those new attachment points that the viewer added ~1 year ago
[2013/01/17 15:23] Maestro Linden: Constants for ATTACH_NECK and ATTACH_AVATAR_CENTER
[2013/01/17 15:23] Maestro Linden: there's also a viewer update to support those constant definitions
[2013/01/17 15:23] Maestro Linden: I'm not sure where the viewer change is in the release pipeline, however
[2013/01/17 15:24] Nal (nalates.urriah): Does that affect anything other than scripts trying to attach things?
[2013/01/17 15:24] Rex Cronon: ATTACH_AVATAR_CENTER this should be renamed to ATTACH_BELLY_BUTTON:)
[2013/01/17 15:24] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Rex why is at at the 'front' of the torso, not the center of mass?
[2013/01/17 15:25] Jonathan Yap: If you attache something to the center it does not move when you are animated, if I recall correctly from my testing a year ago
[2013/01/17 15:25] Maestro Linden: /me vaguely some other proposed body part names for that attachment point..
[2013/01/17 15:25] Jonathan Yap: It's at the centroid
[2013/01/17 15:25] Maestro Linden: I think ATTACH_CENTER is on the same bone as ATTACH_PELVIS
[2013/01/17 15:25] Rex Cronon: kallista, some people have deep belly buttons;)
[2013/01/17 15:26] arton Rotaru: iron mens probably
[2013/01/17 15:26] arton Rotaru: -s
[2013/01/17 15:26] arton Rotaru: I have a problem with llAttachToAvatarTem()
[2013/01/17 15:26] arton Rotaru: When I wera a temp attached object, and put on a clothing layer, like a shirt, the object detaches itself
[2013/01/17 15:27] arton Rotaru: wear*
[2013/01/17 15:27] Maestro Linden: that's odd
[2013/01/17 15:27] arton Rotaru: is that expected behavior?
[2013/01/17 15:27] Jonathan Yap: only for a layer does this happen?
[2013/01/17 15:27] Maestro Linden: I don't think it would be
[2013/01/17 15:27] arton Rotaru: yeah
[2013/01/17 15:27] Maestro Linden: (not by design)
[2013/01/17 15:27] arton Rotaru: I dropped you a test object maestro
[2013/01/17 15:28] PERMISSION_ATTACH test (llAttachToAvatarTemp): Touched by Maestro Linden. Attaching to my owner now.. 
[2013/01/17 15:28] PERMISSION_ATTACH test (llAttachToAvatarTemp): permissions mask is now: PERMISSION_ATTACH
[2013/01/17 15:28] PERMISSION_ATTACH test (llAttachToAvatarTemp): TRYING to attach to the SKULL .. (this should fail if the user is not my owner
[2013/01/17 15:28] Maestro Linden: okay it's temp attached to my skull
[2013/01/17 15:28] arton Rotaru: now add a shirt layer
[2013/01/17 15:28] Maestro Linden: oh
[2013/01/17 15:28] Maestro Linden: yes I just added a jacket
[2013/01/17 15:28] Maestro Linden: and now the box is missing
[2013/01/17 15:28] arton Rotaru: yeah
[2013/01/17 15:29] Maestro Linden: I'm pretty sure that's a bug
[2013/01/17 15:29] Rex Cronon: does it happen when u attache objects too?
[2013/01/17 15:29] arton Rotaru: suspected that^^
[2013/01/17 15:29] Maestro Linden: but I'll ask the person who wrote the function
[2013/01/17 15:29] arton Rotaru: nope, I think not rex
[2013/01/17 15:29] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yes, adding a Hair removes it
[2013/01/17 15:30] Rex Cronon: i am not doingthat
[2013/01/17 15:30] MartinRJ Fayray: it also repros with temp attached HUDs
[2013/01/17 15:30] MartinRJ Fayray: so I can't imagine that would be expected behaviour
[2013/01/17 15:30] arton Rotaru: nope, just system clothing
[2013/01/17 15:30] arton Rotaru: or wait
[2013/01/17 15:30] arton Rotaru: yeah
[2013/01/17 15:31] Maestro Linden: yeah, I think that's a bug
[2013/01/17 15:31] arton Rotaru: who wants to jirafy it?
[2013/01/17 15:32] Maestro Linden: /me whispers Caleb does!
[2013/01/17 15:32] arton Rotaru: cool thx^^
[2013/01/17 15:32] Maestro Linden: that woke him up :)
[2013/01/17 15:32] arton Rotaru: it's always a challenge for me to write those reports :p
[2013/01/17 15:32] arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/17 15:33] arton Rotaru: takes me an hour to it myself (<<non english speaker)
[2013/01/17 15:33] Rex Cronon: write it in code;)
[2013/01/17 15:33] arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/17 15:33] Maestro Linden: Finally, that new maint-server on Magnum has a change to parcel abandonment on mainland
[2013/01/17 15:34] Maestro Linden: it used to be that there was a brief 'buyback' period when you abandoned your parcel, but now the flow is different
[2013/01/17 15:34] Margithe: ok?
[2013/01/17 15:34] Maestro Linden: there is still a grace period where autoreturn is set to 0, just in case you did it accidentally (and don't want your objects to be returned)
[2013/01/17 15:35] Maestro Linden: the change doesn't affect private estates
[2013/01/17 15:36] Theresa Tennyson: During the grace period, is object entry also turned off?
[2013/01/17 15:36] Margithe: is there a specific reason for this?
[2013/01/17 15:36] Rex Cronon: how long is the grce period
[2013/01/17 15:37] Maestro Linden: Margithe, the change came by request from the land team; apparently the old way was overloading them in some ways
[2013/01/17 15:37] Margithe: The old way was a way to be able to buy parcels and re-arrange your parcel shape while buying new adjecent land
[2013/01/17 15:38] Maestro Linden: Theresa: just checked; object entry is disabled during the grace period
[2013/01/17 15:39] Maestro Linden: well, it's disabled for 'Everybody', but allows objects set to the Maintenance group
[2013/01/17 15:40] Margithe: So if you abandon your land now, you have to buy it back at 1 ls/sqm?
[2013/01/17 15:41] Maestro Linden: No, you need to follow http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Abandoned-land/ta-p/846143#Section_.6 in case
[2013/01/17 15:41] Margithe: O.o thats even worse.
[2013/01/17 15:43] Jonathan Yap: When a new region is created here on Aditi how long does it take before it can be looked up on the World Map?
[2013/01/17 15:43] Margithe: That is actually not feasible at all
[2013/01/17 15:43] Maestro Linden: I don't have much in terms of exciting updates. We've fixed the region-crossing crashers, so the threaded region crossing project should be ready for RC next week
[2013/01/17 15:43] Margithe: Hold on, i'm not done
[2013/01/17 15:43] Maestro Linden: Jonathan: a day or two
[2013/01/17 15:43] Margithe: There is a HUGE issue in this
[2013/01/17 15:43] Maestro Linden: Margithe, I can't help you with policy changes
[2013/01/17 15:45] Margithe: if you want to buy a piece of the land that is for sale, for an example, lets say you have 4000 sqm landholdings, and you can fit another 512 into it, and an adjecent parcel is 1000 sqm's, the normal procedure would be to abandon a piece, buy the parcel, cut off the piece you want, reclaim your land and abandom the remaining land you originally bouyght
[2013/01/17 15:46] Margithe: yes, but it's not a minor change, did you guys actually think of what it means?
[2013/01/17 15:46] Margithe: you are making it HARDER to buy land.
[2013/01/17 15:46] Margithe: even if it's land someone wants.
[2013/01/17 15:46] Margithe: is that a good idea right now, really?
[2013/01/17 15:47] Rex Cronon: is not like ll does a feasibility study each time something changes:)
[2013/01/17 15:47] arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/17 15:47] Jonathan Yap: I think I missed something--is it possible to buy your abandoned land back or was that eliminated?
[2013/01/17 15:48] Maestro Linden: The automated buy-back after abandoning mainland is going away
[2013/01/17 15:48] Margithe: you can file a ticket, and then it appears you can get it back if you plead nicely, once.
[2013/01/17 15:49] Margithe: I'm not actually sure that you have put full thought into this, i'm sorry to say.
[2013/01/17 15:51] Your Worst Nightmare (kaleb.silvercloud): if it was group land...what I would do is reduce my group donation so the group is temporary in the negative...buy the bigger piece of land....chop a section you don't want off...merge it with your existing land and then make sure your group donation is back at the level it needs to be....Not sure what non group land would be like though.
[2013/01/17 15:52] Maestro Linden: Okay, I passed your comments on to the land team
[2013/01/17 15:52] Your Worst Nightmare (kaleb.silvercloud): well I mean at the end you would then deed it to the group...since it won't let you buy for group with negative tier donation
[2013/01/17 15:52] Margithe: Thank you.
[2013/01/17 15:54] Maestro Linden: In other news.. simulator support for normal and specular maps is inching closer to RC
[2013/01/17 15:54] Maestro Linden: the viewer is still in early development though; the plan is to have the sim support released far ahead of the viewer
[2013/01/17 15:54] arton Rotaru: hm okay
[2013/01/17 15:55] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): that should be fine, as it won't impace any current viewers, right?
[2013/01/17 15:55] Maestro Linden: yeah, it shouldn't have any effect
[2013/01/17 15:56] Maestro Linden: So that's all I had for announcements..
[2013/01/17 15:56] arton Rotaru: enough for today
[2013/01/17 15:56] Maestro Linden: I'm pretty excited for the prim materials stuff
[2013/01/17 15:56] Maestro Linden: it should be pretty
[2013/01/17 15:56] Your Worst Nightmare (kaleb.silvercloud): teleports have seem to been magically faster in the last day or so after a scheduled maintenance was followed by an unscheduled maintenance during tuesday's server meeting....once logins were allowed, we could teleport anywhere instantly.....it was freaky. :)
[2013/01/17 15:57] Maestro Linden: Cool
[2013/01/17 15:57] Margithe: did you guys do something ;)
[2013/01/17 15:57] Theresa Tennyson: Did you mention anything about the network issues of the last couple of weeks?
[2013/01/17 15:57] arton Rotaru: saddly materials will only work with deferred rendering, so we still have to build for those with older machines
[2013/01/17 15:57] Jonathan Yap: before this meeting I was getting a lot of repeated lines in chat
[2013/01/17 15:57] Maestro Linden: I think a lot of people got kicked offline after one of the issues, so maybe the lower concurrency following the maintenance made things fast?
[2013/01/17 15:58] Your Worst Nightmare (kaleb.silvercloud): someone mentioned at the tuesday meeting that those who can't support deferred rendering should be exiled to opensim. :)
[2013/01/17 15:59] arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/17 15:59] Nal (nalates.urriah): :) Oh that is cold
[2013/01/17 15:59] arton Rotaru: TPs would be fast then all the time in SL
[2013/01/17 15:59] Theresa Tennyson: That was in reference to the people who are still upset about sculpted prims.
[2013/01/17 15:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Or at least buy a computer that was built in this Melinium.
[2013/01/17 16:00] arton Rotaru: I guess half of SL residents go without deffered around
[2013/01/17 16:00] Rex Cronon: r u saying u can run viewer3 on a coumputer build in 2000:)
[2013/01/17 16:00] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): on my intel HD 4000 right now, with shadows on full, and get 10 fps, and avatar imposters are off
[2013/01/17 16:00] Nal (nalates.urriah): Oz and Nyx have been asked if they can get us stats on how many run with Def Render enabled.
[2013/01/17 16:00] Techwolf Lupindo: Defered rendering can bring top of the line computer to there knees...
[2013/01/17 16:00] arton Rotaru: 10 fps is horrible^^
[2013/01/17 16:01] arton Rotaru: but you can set shadows to none which helps alot
[2013/01/17 16:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): not for a integrated gpu. arton
[2013/01/17 16:01] Theresa Tennyson: From my experience, if you can run atmospheric shaders you can run deferred rendering.
[2013/01/17 16:01] Maestro Linden: Oops, we're over time
[2013/01/17 16:01] arton Rotaru: true, but 10 fps are 10 fps in the end^^
[2013/01/17 16:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): with shadows off, I get 15 fps
[2013/01/17 16:01] arton Rotaru: yeah times up
[2013/01/17 16:01] MartinRJ Fayray: If somebody could pass me an up-to-date keywords.txt I would be very grateful
[2013/01/17 16:01] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): with differed off, at get 17 fps
[2013/01/17 16:02] arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/17 16:02] Rex Cronon: lol. i get better framerates with viewer 1.23.5 :)
[2013/01/17 16:02] arton Rotaru: however, we'll see
[2013/01/17 16:02] arton Rotaru: thx for the meeting
[2013/01/17 16:02] Maestro Linden: See you all next week!
[2013/01/17 16:02] Blake Burger: good night everyone :)
[2013/01/17 16:02] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): take care everyone
[2013/01/17 16:02] And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): have a good weekend
[2013/01/17 16:02] Rex Cronon: tc maestro
[2013/01/17 16:02] Rex Cronon: tc everybody