Open Source Meeting/2010-07-08

== Agenda Thursday, 08 July 2010 ==
# Many links in the Source_downloads page still result in 404 or 403 errors (marked in red).
## Is it possible to regenerate the old files, or should we just link the latest files from the Snowglobe 1.4 trunk for all 1.23 and SG1.x versions?
## There are still people who build and maintain versions older than 1.23. would the files from above work for those as well?
## See relevant jira issues: and 
If we run out of topics before the end of the meeting, we'll triage Snowglobe or Open Source specific Jira Issues from the list below.
=== Jira Issues ===
# After discussion, r3349 was reverted. Do these still need discussion (e.g. for viewer-external)?:
## Changeset 3349 added unit test to llplugin but forgot LL_TESTS, resulting in a build failure in lltut.cpp
## Tries to build pulseaudio when pulseaudio not found.
## Standalone build failure r3349, cmake error on SLPlugin
## Bulding of integration_tests when not needed
## Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
## (Robin Cornelius)
## Make libllcommon shared for SLPlugin + plugins on 1.4
## Ready to commit (Aleric Inglewood)
## idem
# Unscheduled SNOW issues triage: would be good to go with the community through those and decide for some what we should take immediately (2.0 or 1.4) or later.
If you think an issue warrants a deeper discussion, please add it as topic to one of the agendas above.
== Transcript ==
[13:59]	:	Wolf yes, i saw that when sorting my inbox earlier and stared it for later attention
[13:59]	:	Hey Aimee
[13:59]	:	hey boroondas
[13:59]	:	hi
[13:59]	:	hey Merov :)
[14:00]	:	hello all
[14:00]	:	hey merov
[14:00]	:	hello
[14:00]	:	Hi Merov
[14:00]	:	My! Full house today...
[14:00]	:	yes it is merov
[14:01]	:	hi Bronson
[14:01]	:	/me waves in greetings.
[14:01]	:	k, it's 2pm so, let
[14:01]	:	hey Henri
[14:01]	:	let's start
[14:02]	:	I see that someone updated the Agenda
[14:02]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:02]	:	so, let's start with that
[14:03]	:	the infamous download issue
[14:03]	:	yes, I need to refresh those
[14:03]	:	I can recreate some of them but not all of them
[14:04]	:	i.e. 1.23 and after but none of the branches prior to that
[14:04]	:	did LL do some house keeping on old files maybe?
[14:04]	:	would be possible (everything is possible...) but would require an inordinate amount of work to build those old branches
[14:05]	:	What about simply redoing a v1.23 repository from the matest v1.23.5 sources ?
[14:05]	:	+latest
[14:05]	:	Wolfpup: yes, somewhat, there's a script that obsoletes and cleans up stuff on S3 that are older than 3 months
[14:06]	:	this has been changed recently (last month) after complaints (since it has been hitting folks internally as well...)
[14:06]	:	having broken downloads page for sources is... erm... less than professional
[14:06]	:	but for our old branches (1.22 and before) it's gone
[14:06]	:	How did 1.23.5 stay on S3 for so long? I remember there was no updates for a year due to 2.0 close source.
[14:07]	:	sources for old releases need to be kept forever
[14:07]	:	it was rebuilt on a regular basis
[14:07]	:	Merov, about v1.23, did you remember that email I sent to you a while ago about the broken KDU in the slviewer-linux-libs-viewer-rc-frozen-1.23.5.136274.tar.gz archive ?...
[14:07]	:	the repo are still available IIRC, the bundles (tar and zip) are not
[14:07]	:	you cannot build without artwork and libs
[14:08]	:	Henri: I recall
[14:08]	:	i've certainly got various old zip/tar files around and i am sure between us we can probably find a lot of them, from more than one source for some confidence in their integritry
[14:08]	:	I got all the v1.23.5 files for Linux...
[14:08]	:	Latif: correct but those are super stable (artwork in particular prior 2.0)
[14:10]	:	OK, so, on that action item, I know about it and I will get to it in the next few days
[14:10]	:	which is possible now that I have a hope on the viewer-external merge front
[14:11]	:	I'm just asking for mercy... aahem... patience...
[14:11]	:	lol merov
[14:11]	:	sorry I'm late... can I ask what the action item is?
[14:11]	:	hey thick
[14:11]	:	(regenrate or use the ones from 1.4?)
[14:11]	:	the action item is: kick Merov's butt once more to fix that darn download link table
[14:12]	:	/me looks at his steel toed boots and ponders...
[14:12]	:	action by Merov: fix this for the recent branches, take the old branches out
[14:12]	:	I think that the ones from SG 1.4.0 will work for any 1.23 version as well (?)
[14:12]	:	hmm
[14:13]	:	Thickbrick: yes, it *should* work
[14:13]	:	you want to remove downloads for viewers before 1.23?
[14:13]	:	that's the same internal branch anyway
[14:13]	:	Merov, I also got all the archives for v1.18, v1.19, v1.21, v1.22 if you want...
[14:13]	:	Henri, for all OS-es?
[14:13]	:	Latif: if I can't rebuild them (and the artwork/lib bundles), I think we shoulf
[14:13]	:	should
[14:14]	:	Merov, I think removing the sources would be a mistake
[14:14]	:	Linux
[14:14]	:	But can be used to build for other OSes too
[14:14]	:	artwork will work for all oses
[14:15]	:	are there any major differences between the 1.22 and 1.23 archives?
[14:15]	:	Got the libs for v1.19 too
[14:15]	:	Windows libs
[14:15]	:	yes, many diffs
[14:15]	:	"libs" is actually some fonts and llkdu... neither of those changed recently.
[14:15]	:	It's not neccessary to keep the old old archines on S3 (I assume that costs money), you could just make a single website somewhere.
[14:15]	:	Latif: the source tarballs are built using an export script that requires building from scratch on all platforms
[14:16]	:	the build system changed *a lot* since 1.22 and is changing again as we speak (moving from Parabuild to Teamcity)
[14:16]	:	updating and adapting all those build scripts for all those branches is lots of work
[14:16]	:	for little gain
[14:17]	:	well if you don't have the archive of old versions prepacked, leave the sources at least, it's invaluable at times
[14:17]	:	Is SG 1.4 still rebuild automatically?
[14:17]	:	Aleric: my problem right now is not S3 or not, is rebuilding things that have been erased
[14:18]	:	Merov: I understood this is the second time it got erased.
[14:18]	:	SG 1.4 is rebuilt on demand
[14:18]	:	I can rebuild Linux builds for v1.18 to v1.23 if you want... Got automated building scripts...
[14:19]	:	Henri: you're not building the lib bundles, though, as Thickbrick said, there isn't much in them except kdu
[14:19]	:	I have a question for you folks
[14:20]	:	I got the latest lib bundles for v1.23.
[14:20]	:	besides the "unprofessional" aspect of having broken links, what are those old tarballs good at for you?
[14:20]	:	/me has some ideas but would like to hear from folks
[14:21]	:	I don't use any of them older then 1.4.x
[14:21]	:	Neither me.
[14:21]	:	well I know that at least one TPV is building 1.18 -- Henri :)
[14:21]	:	the netbook edition ;)
[14:21]	:	Henri: if you have any of the 'red' files from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Source_downloads #Snowglobe_Releases_and_Release_Candidates (top down preferably) then please upload them with the exact same name to SNOW-604
[14:21]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-604 [#SNOW-604] Files missing from server: slviewer-artwork-oss-viewer-1.23.4.139024.zip, slviewer-win32-libs-oss-viewer-1.23.4.139024.zip
[14:21]	:	all im useing for 2.0
[14:22]	:	1.18! ZOMG
[14:22]	:	or was it 1.19, one of those
[14:22]	:	I think the puppeteering code I did prior joining LL was based on 1.20
[14:22]	:	http://sldev.free.fr/sources/
[14:22]	:	quite popular with integrated graphics
[14:22]	:	Shouldn't the older versions fade due to security concerns?
[14:23]	:	the grid enforces mandatory updates at times
[14:23]	:	but that's pretty lax as a policy, especially for TPV
[14:23]	:	CoolViewer 1.19 is being kept up to date with the patches, hat off to Henri :)
[14:23]	:	Merov: Also, we need an artwork download for 'SVN'. New users cannot make snowglobe 1.4 as it is, since there is no link to the artwork for that version.
[14:23]	:	Isn't 1.19 used for performance resons?
[14:23]	:	yes
[14:24]	:	Yes, but I'll stop v1.19 support at the end of this yers
[14:24]	:	1.19 does reasonably well on those intel motherboard chipsets
[14:24]	:	+year
[14:24]	:	uh? it's in doc/asset_urls.txt, isn't it?
[14:24]	:	Don't we have working links in current doc/asset_urls.txt?
[14:24]	:	Roadmap: http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=264
[14:24]	:	work for me
[14:24]	:	I have automatic scripts to build old version of the libraries.
[14:24]	:	we do, otherwise automated builds won't work.
[14:25]	:	1.4 links
[14:25]	:	yeap, I haven't built 1.4 from scratch in several weeks though
[14:25]	:	Oh, ... well, I am overhauling (if that is correct English) the wiki regarding buiding the viewer (reading the wiki and trying it - fixing the wiki too)... The wiki tells people to go to the source download wiki page and download the artwork... There is no artwork for SVN there though :/
[14:25]	:	Would like the see the use of 1.19 on those Intel chips
[14:25]	:	I use the provided script to fetch and unpack the bindles.
[14:26]	:	Aleric: I just updated the wiki with regard to that yesterday
[14:26]	:	/me points to the link on the agenda page to doc/asset_urls.txt <== those urls work.
[14:26]	:	/me digs a link
[14:26]	:	Merov: what page?
[14:26]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Version_control_repository #Artwork_and_Library_Bundles
[14:27]	:	I added that paragraph about the bundles and libs
[14:27]	:	that wasn't documented anywhere, strangely enough
[14:27]	:	lindenprojects2009snowglobetrunkscriptspublic_fetch_tarballs.py is handy
[14:27]	:	dang my net has the hickups
[14:28]	:	I just tell people to run that after checkout completes.
[14:28]	:	I need to say I haven't tried it on Mac, only Windows
[14:28]	:	Scripts and debs dated back to 1.18 : http://sourceforge.net/projects/oslcc/files/
[14:28]	:	It is AMAZING how many pages there are on the wiki with DUPLICATED information about how to get/configure/compile the viewer :/ ....
[14:28]	:	It's a mess
[14:29]	:	Aleric, true
[14:29]	:	indeed
[14:29]	:	+5 aleric
[14:29]	:	The page that I updated is https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_the_viewer_%28Linux%29
[14:29]	:	When I'm done that should be a one-stop for compiling it under linux.
[14:29]	:	but all the other pages will still be there, confusing people.
[14:29]	:	I suggest we all use those linked from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile
[14:30]	:	i have done some work on https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Microsoft_Windows_Builds
[14:30]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Compiling_viewer should contain all relevant articles. We might be able to eliminate some after cleanup.
[14:30]	:	we need wiki gardening, and when I say "gardening" I mean weeding really...
[14:30]	:	lol
[14:30]	:	-*@ ROFL @*-
[14:30]	:	not all linux's are the same anymore
[14:31]	:	digital shreadder'
[14:31]	:	linuxes... linii
[14:31]	:	Compiling viewers for Windoze is a real pain in the <censored>...
[14:31]	:	there are so many pages... Poor Oz is trying to build Snowglobe since days and has been failing a 1000 times...
[14:31]	:	strontgat?
[14:31]	:	at least we got his attention on updating the wiki...
[14:32]	:	:-)
[14:32]	:	tell me about it it takse me almost two hours to do a compile runn
[14:32]	:	the thing is that we all get confortable in a path and forget about the rest
[14:32]	:	and 15 minutes for Linux, all automated...
[14:32]	:	it takes me 30 min to build from scratch, I could do it in my sleep on Mac and Windows at least
[14:33]	:	*but* only because I always use the same tools, tweaked commands, installed tools, etc...
[14:33]	:	*sigh* i keep telling you on debian its apt-get source snowglobe; cd snowglobe; dpkg-buildpackage ;-)
[14:33]	:	hahaha
[14:33]	:	but are any of you working with a 5yr old system
[14:33]	:	too complicated... ;)
[14:34]	:	well, lets agree on documenting from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile and down
[14:34]	:	k
[14:34]	:	For me it's just typing cmake-SL... :-P
[14:34]	:	and lets document the easy way first
[14:34]	:	MS started to update it's MSI functionality to be more debian like
[14:35]	:	lets keep the special cases at the end of each wiki page
[14:35]	:	documentation needs checking from clean systems as well so if you have virtual boxes or chroots you can use to verify thats great
[14:35]	:	I remember how confused I was the first time I tried to build the viewer, Dzonatas actually rescued me :)
[14:36]	:	robin and ardy helped me out
[14:36]	:	when i first started
[14:36]	:	the viewer is easy compared to the cycle of hate that is GTK on mingwg ;-/
[14:36]	:	recursive dependencies
[14:36]	:	lol
[14:36]	:	easy way without special cases is here, I think: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_and_Patching_Snowglobe_%28Linux%29
[14:37]	:	webkit was horrendous to build also some years ago
[14:37]	:	one issue for windows as well is that there are clear differences between express VS and standard/pro that need to be recorded
[14:37]	:	/me remembers his time at OSAF
[14:37]	:	Robin, not to mention 2005/2008/2010 woes
[14:38]	:	we may remove mention to libboost-program-options-dev from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Compiling_and_Patching_Snowglobe_%28Linux%29
[14:38]	:	also dependning on your windows SDK you install you may see other random issues relating to various missing include files
[14:38]	:	and SxS fun
[14:38]	:	ok, I feel we shared a lot of stories and agree we all feel pain at times with regards to building, especially when helping new comers
[14:38]	:	ya like winres.h
[14:38]	:	as it *is* important (vital even) for a FLOSS project to be relatively easy to build, lets agree to improve that darn wiki doc
[14:39]	:	VS build instructions: "Format hard drive, install Linux"
[14:39]	:	I think we should break from bug chasing and have a build and libraries only period
[14:39]	:	(Or buy a Mac)
[14:39]	:	Buy a Mac, Format hard drive, install Linux??
[14:40]	:	-*@ ROFL @*-
[14:40]	:	that sounds a great alternative :D
[14:40]	:	Nicky: well, for folks well installed with a working config, it's asking lots from them
[14:40]	:	And run Vitualbox with windows over it...
[14:40]	:	that's what I intended to do when I got my first Mac, just never got past the first step
[14:41]	:	Ok, juts uploaded the sources, "libraries" (Linux for all but v1.19 for which I also got Windows') and artwork archives for v1.23.5, v1.22.11, v1.19.0.5 on http://sldev.free.fr/sources/ ... Let me know if you need more (got v1.21.6, v1.20.17, v1.18.4.3 as well).
[14:41]	:	I'm waiting for the iBoard ... or iKeyboard
[14:41]	:	cool! thanks Henri!
[14:42]	:	k, we just spent the best part of the meeting on this
[14:42]	:	Note to Merov: the v1.23.5 "libraries" tarball got the *working* KDU in it
[14:42]	:	merci Henri
[14:43]	:	OK, in the 20 or so minutes left, I'd like to talk about the viewer-external merge
[14:43]	:	I emailed the list 1 hour or so ago
[14:44]	:	the good news is: I have a working Snowglobe 2.1 merge, pretty much ready to commit
[14:44]	:	/me waits for the bad news
[14:45]	:	the bad news is: it's *huge* and has the potential to break things for a bit (I tested only on Windows)
[14:45]	:	well, it's not an unexpected bad news as you've seen the daily commits on viewer-external
[14:45]	:	and have been building it (some of you at least)
[14:46]	:	have we branched in SVN already?
[14:46]	:	yup
[14:46]	:	well, if it's only a bit, we can live with that, I guess
[14:46]	:	robin yes there is a sg 2.0 branch that was done last friday
[14:46]	:	last time I did a big commit like that, I had to roll bacl remember?
[14:46]	:	got used to fix more than "a bit" broken stuff back when 2.0 was dropped ;-)
[14:46]	:	Does the new commit have the dae ready code?
[14:46]	:	that's why I'm announcing it before doing it...
[14:47]	:	the "dae ready coe"?
[14:47]	:	collada
[14:47]	:	*code(
[14:47]	:	we have to do this at some point, as we are branched doing it in public should be better as at least we can all chip in to fight issues esp on other platforms
[14:47]	:	no, it's a merge from viewer-external to trunk
[14:48]	:	there's no collada code in viewer-external I think
[14:48]	:	Robin: thanks
[14:49]	:	some one plaese post the log of this meeting as im missing a lot of it due to my net burbong
[14:49]	:	BTW Robin: welcome back :)
[14:49]	:	will we have to re-address the issues listed at the end of the agenda page?
[14:49]	:	ready to chip on SNOW-669?
[14:49]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-669 [#SNOW-669] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:49]	:	Yes thats going to be looked at soon
[14:49]	:	/me checks the end of the agenda page
[14:50]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda #Jira_Issues
[14:50]	:	it's possible some of those were already fixed in viewer-external
[14:50]	:	that's why I ask
[14:51]	:	well, we'll see, I guess
[14:51]	:	well, we need to check them indeed
[14:51]	:	good oint
[14:51]	:	*point*
[14:51]	:	I haven't looked at those recently so I can't say
[14:52]	:	with some luck (of which we had little recently...) those have been addressed in viewer-public while coding 2.1
[14:53]	:	anyway, I'll check rapidly and see if there's something blocking a commit merge
[14:54]	:	some issues might still stay open after the commit merge though
[14:54]	:	I'll count on your guys to help me sort them out
[14:54]	:	sure
[14:55]	:	/me has nocked a couple off the snow mysterous future list with the help of felllow devs here
[14:56]	:	btw., would it be possible to have two versions after the current one available for "Fix Version" on jira?
[14:56]	:	ok, we're 5 min from the end of the meeting
[14:56]	:	I'll need to stop at 3pm sharp (get my daughter from day camp)
[14:56]	:	Still no blob mentioning the Beta installer update yesterday? http://download.cloud.secondlife.com/beta-releases/Viewer-2-1-0/Second_Life_2-1-0-206543_BetaViewer_Setup.exe
[14:56]	:	that'd allow for some more planning than pushing everything to "mysterous future"
[14:56]	:	blob ~= blog
[14:57]	:	we need to add new version and, generally speaking, clean up the versions in JIRA
[14:57]	:	ok i'm running now, catch up more over the next few days, see you all later
[14:57]	:	I discovered though recently that I lost my privileges to do so... don't know why... :(
[14:57]	:	laters Robin
[14:57]	:	ew :-
[14:57]	:	thank you for being here
[14:57]	:	yeah: ew...
[14:58]	:	=)
[14:58]	:	c u Robin
[14:58]	:	bye Robin
[14:58]	:	she done gone
[14:58]	:	so I need to track who can help me with that now, then fix those lists of versions (affects and fix)
[14:59]	:	we need to put Snowglobe 2.1 in there, at least
[14:59]	:	2.1 won't build on Linux. Unfinished code, look at the comments in cmake/gogglebreak.cmake.
[14:59]	:	also, 1.3 is still listed under "unreleased versions"
[15:00]	:	maybe we should make a checklist of what needs to be done at release time
[15:00]	:	(on jira, wiki, etc)
[15:01]	:	BTW, I updated the template page and release notes page for the 1.4 test build to the most recent build.
[15:01]	:	Boroondas: yes, I think there's an internal wiki on that, written by Robla back then
[15:01]	:	template page = download links template.
[15:01]	:	thanks Thickbrick!
[15:01]	:	ah ... could you copy that to the public wiki, so we don't have to start from scratch?
[15:02]	:	I have to find it first, if you think the public wiki is a mess, wait till you see the internal one...
[15:02]	:	:-P
[15:02]	:	I think having a link teplate for 2 builds (like we have for 1.x) would be easier than linking them in each page in the wiki.
[15:02]	:	Thickbrick: yes, we need to do that
[15:03]	:	I didn't do it as I rushed to push 2.0 at the time and had only one link to add
[15:03]	:	now, with 2.0 and 2.x trunk, we're back in the same situation
[15:04]	:	aaaggh!.... I need to run get my kid!.... (3:04pm)
[15:04]	:	bye Merov!
[15:04]	:	bye
[15:04]	:	Take care
[15:04]	:	take care merov :)
[15:04]	:	don't drive to fast
[15:04]	:	See you later Merov
[15:04]	:	see you guys and please do tell me on opensource-dev if you have a red flag on the commit merge!
[15:04]	:	ciao
[15:04]	:	see you Merov
[15:05]	:	Bye!
[15:05]	:	bye!
[15:06]	:	/me waves bye.
[15:07]	:	meh, no teleports
[15:07]	:	has to be back here in 45 min
[15:07]	:	why?
[15:07]	:	yeah tp fails for me too
 
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