WindLight/Office Hours/2007-12-18

Torley Linden: Mornin'! WindLight Office Hours shall begin shortly!
Jeremy Linden waits for everyone to rez.
Torley Linden: *rez rez revolution!*
Jeremy Linden: Heh!
Shady Fox: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! :D :D :D
Jeremy Linden: As long as I don't have to dance a complicated pattern just to see what everyone else sees :-)
Shady Fox: lol
Torley Linden: Waiting for some more Team WindLight members to show up... hey hey Zen!
Shady Fox: Heh.. Jeremy is already worn out.
Torley Linden: I see Pastrami!
Torley Linden: w00t w00t!
Jeremy Linden: It also provides good protection against anything that might knock me off the stage :-)
Entering god mode, level 200
Torley Linden: Practical AND chic!
Shady Fox: Three! Three Lindens! Ha ha ha! (The Count)
Torley Linden: That's the way we like it...
Shady Fox: Oh wait, four!
Shady Fox: They're outnumbering the crowd.
Pastrami Linden: hey all!
You shout: WindLight Office Hours beginning! Come one, come all... or something like that!
Shady Fox: Nice AV, AC. :D
AC: :)
Torley Linden: Jeremy, got your fab sign to IM Pastrami for the Q's?
Jeremy Linden: Oh, right!
Shady Fox: Welcome to the World of Tomorrow!!
AC: yes, the sign :p
Torley Linden: Haha Shady, I've always wanted to see those future-world kinda builds in Second Life...
Torley Linden: I like that retrofuturism a lot. Flying cars and all that shiznit.
Torley Linden: Welcome each and everyone!
AC: First of all, thank you for the ATI users !
Torley Linden: Presumably you're using the new WindLight viewer too which Pastrami did such a vibrant blog post about! http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/12/17/new-windlight-viewer-extended-commentary-75762/
Torley Linden: Haha thanx Shady. *loox*
Jeremy Linden cranks up the glow.
Pastrami Linden: Hey all, feel free to IM meyour questions!
Shady Fox: Yeah, did some cool moonlight over water wandering. Was mega cool.
Andreas Winger: Greetings Everyone
Torley Linden: Friendly freakin' greetings!
Torley Linden: BigPapi is in that hizzouse!
Torley Linden: *tha
BigPapi Linden: fo shizzle
Zen Linden: darn finger macros
Shady Fox: My gawd! I haven't seen this many Lindens in one place since the dark ages!
Torley Linden: LOL Shady, we are here to bring light... WINDLIGHT!
Pastrami Linden: with WindLight there are no longer any dark ages
Andreas Winger agrees with Shady
Torley Linden: We are bringers of light, the SLuminati...
Shady Fox: fnord
Torley Linden: Ooh someone sent me pictures of their pet snakes.
Shady Fox: (must be a FIC plot)
Torley Linden: Hehe, that's as obsolete as a dialup modem.
Torley Linden: In an age of ULTRA-BROADBAND!
Torley Linden: *Wi-fi not included.
Shady Fox: Welcome to the World of Tomorrow!!
Torley Linden: *raises hand-things in adulation too*
Torley Linden: So we're already some minutes into the house, IM your questions to Pastrami Linden and let's get started!
Torley Linden: Those of you standing in the back, if you want to stay there, that's fine... but feel free to come forward if you're so inclined... :)
Pastrami Linden: yeah, Andreas is typing me the first one, Torley
Monalisa Robbiani: we are shy :P
Torley Linden: Cool cool.
shanxtc Bade: Hoooo!
shanxtc Bade: HoooOOO!!!
Pastrami Linden: Shady Fox: Will the Windlight implementation always be a seperate viewer, or will it be something you can turn on/off in an eventual main viewer?
Pastrami Linden: it will eventualy be in the mian viewer
Pastrami Linden: and toggle-able
Pastrami Linden: as it is now
Pastrami Linden: well, as much as it is now
Pastrami Linden: (i.e. Low, Mid, High)
Turtle AO: 2959 bytes free
Pastrami Linden: it has to go through First Look, then RC, then main
Torley Linden: Brad's here! w00t!
Brad Linden: sorry I'm late
Torley Linden: No worries! =)
Sappheire Demina: hi cali
Pastrami Linden: Andreas Winger: I'm italian so usually when I speak I talk about euro and I saw that with the windlight viewer it's impossible to use it because the key combination it's overwritten with the enviroment setting
Pastrami Linden: Zen care to answer that?
Zen Linden: fixing that this week
Torley Linden: Great I was wondering about that too, there IS an issue in the public Issue Tracker which matches up...
Torley Linden: I'll link those...
Torley Linden: let me see if I can find it right now, for your reference...
Torley Linden: After Zen fixes, we'll mark it accordingly... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3268
Pastrami Linden: Shady Fox: Not asking for a set in stone date, but how complete is Windlight now? Is it really close to being shifted into a RC form?
Pastrami Linden: it's a few weeks away
Shady Fox: Oh, cool. :D
Pastrami Linden: we have about 10 more major bugs we want to squash
Pastrami Linden: Zante Zapedzki: Any christmas surprises on the way, like SpeedTree? : )
Zante Zapedzki: ;p
BigPapi Linden: That would be a Christmas surrpise for us too. :)
Torley Linden: I look forward to seeing who's done really nice icy/foggy/snowy/moggy WindLight settings...
Zante Zapedzki: hehe
Shady Fox: (I'm always torn between using Windlight, or using Nicholaz's client) :D
Torley Linden: I was at a place called Le Zoo the other day and the penguins just didn't look right without a haze!
BigPapi Linden: Short answer: no surprises currently in store
Pastrami Linden: better- we've re-architectured the whole renderer so that on Dec. 31st you get real time raytraced shadows, real time global illumination, and Second Life spits out a hot pizza in RL every time ou boot it up
Pastrami Linden: :)
Torley Linden: WITH ALL THE TOPPINGS!???
Shady Fox: (I've seen some cool glow-only wings)
Zante Zapedzki: alright, thanks I like pizza
Jeremy Linden: (Psst... That was the April 1 release!)
Saijanai Kuhn: what about vegetarians?
Pastrami Linden: all the toppings, Torley.
Pastrami Linden: All of them
AC: llPizza
Torley Linden: Shady, I've been looking for great examples of glow. Very neat to see it applied selectively across Second Life.
Torley Linden: AC, I remember that joke!
Pastrami Linden: no, no surprises unfortnatelyl :)
AC: the most wantef lsl function
Torley Linden: http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=llPizza
Pastrami Linden: AC: When do you plan to add Dazzle to Windlight ?
Torley Linden: Glow has been awesome for mecha, table lamps, and sci-fi eyes (see Jeremy), and more.
Pastrami Linden: deferring to others here
Saijanai Kuhn: a quick question, will glow be settable via LSL and if so, will it be part of the llSetPrimitiveParams, or some other call, like llSetWindlightParams?
Torley Linden: Oh, well from the tentative timetable...
Shady Fox: I think getowner of a llpizza could be disputed if near others.
Torley Linden: Dazzle will be in a First Look after WindLight exits FL...
AC: so in RC Version ?
Torley Linden: I think Dazzle is dependent on the Voice branch, but somewhere along the way in the next few months they should sync up and merge features.
Shady Fox: I want Nimble!
Torley Linden: Perhaps — not *sure* of that yet.
Torley Linden: Brent has been working a lot on the Dazzle art...
Torley Linden: But *right now* you can actually manually patch Dazzle atop WindLight.
Torley Linden: So if you want both, it'll take a few minutes.
Torley Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Dazzle for instructions.
Shady Fox: Dazzle the skinning stuff?
AC: ok, thank you
Torley Linden: I haven't tried it with the latest latest WindLight viewer (75762) but it worked a couple releases ago, and if it doesn't, email me... torley at lindenlab dot com (I work on Dazzle too).
Pastrami Linden: Zante Zapedzki: are LSL handlers for glow planned? I'd like to be able to dynamically turn them on and off during day and night
Pastrami Linden: We really need to implement that....
Torley Linden: Yes, Dazzle is a skin refresh and will hopefully pave the way to future skinning user-customizability. It's a "first step".
Zante Zapedzki: : ]
Pastrami Linden: thoughts all
Pastrami Linden: ?
Shady Fox: (ah right. I use Dazzle + Nicholaz view)
Jeremy Linden: llSetGlow, llSetPrimitiveParams?
Torley Linden: LSL-scriptable glow is hot on the Issue Tracker...
Torley Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3114
Zante Zapedzki: already signed
Saijanai Kuhn: should it be part of llSetPrimitiveParams or something else?
Torley Linden: Looks like it's in Zen's queue internally?
Saijanai Kuhn: llSetWindlightParams?
Pastrami Linden: I believe so
Zen Linden: Not super soon, but I'll se if I can't bump it up
Torley Linden: Kewl beans.
Jeremy Linden: Glow itself seems more in line with a primitive parameter.
Zen Linden: i'm always hesitant to add new features at this point
Jeremy Linden: But I'm not the one who'll be working on it. I'll stop commenting now :-)
Torley Linden: *nod* with the big bugs that need bashing!
Zante Zapedzki: alright, I just seems important : ]
Torley Linden: *zooms around the Linden trees to see how they fare*
Zen Linden: you're right, it is. But a part of me really wants everything stable before we go banging on things some more
Zante Zapedzki: *nods*
Pastrami Linden: yeah any thoughts guys on the latest trees?
Torley Linden: They look more even so far, but... they're distinctively darker.
Torley Linden: Maybe too dark...
Pastrami Linden: yeah, I think they're too dark with the current presets-
Jeremy Linden: (Too dark compared to the terrain, or overall?)
Torley Linden: Some of the shubbery in the distance looks like pockmarks...
Pastrami Linden: with the new presets, they match just fine
Torley Linden: Jeremy, too dark compared to this terrain is the impression I'm getting at noon.
Pastrami Linden: new presets are coming in the next release
Torley Linden: Sweet, Pastrami. GOOD TO KNOW.
JetZep Zabelin: The tree edges could be feathered a little softer
Pastrami Linden: yeah, agreed they are
Torley Linden: I'll remember that for sharing next time I get asked!
Pastrami Linden: my queue is empty, btw
Torley Linden: JetZep, yeah, they do look rather aliased...
Torley Linden: AC, that's such a fun little box robot avatar.
Zante Zapedzki: I like : ]
Pastrami Linden: anyone? IM me questions
Jeremy Linden sees a competing zeppelin avatar.
Pastrami Linden: zeppelin warz!
JetZep Zabelin: hehee
Saijanai Kuhn: Wonders if the zeppelins are going to compete in Qarl's xculpted balloon contest
Torley Linden: It'd be fun to drop little pellets and other payloads out of your cargo holds.
Torley Linden: Haha Sai, that's a very good question!
Pastrami Linden: well, still no qustions
Sorraya Pera shouts: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Pastrami Linden: may call this early at the half hour
Saijanai Kuhn: they're all speechless with your beauty in WIndlight...
Pastrami Linden: good sign, I suppose
Pastrami Linden: :)
You shout: Take advantage of this opportunity now! Team WindLight is before you, ready to indulge your curiosities! A moment in time not to be missed!
Pastrami Linden: Milton Wisent: There are needs for different graphics configurations for different purposes. For example, for an action even, like auto racing, which can use a sim, you want long range with low graphics detail. Shopping in store you want high detail with lower range. In a slow sim you may want to quickly reduce detail without lossing custom setting. Having individualized customized presets would help a lot, is that planned
Pastrami Linden: hmm- that does sound like a great feature
AC: Isuppose you'll stop the release the nexte week ? don't you ?
Pastrami Linden: but one that we can't do at the moment
Torley Linden: Pastrami, I agree that's a great idea and something like it has been wanted for ages... so good to keep in mind...
Pastrami Linden: Torley should we log it and take note?
Torley Linden: E.g., a "photographer" preset which cranks everything up to ultra beyond ultra!
Pastrami Linden: Zen that could make it into your tradeable assets phase
Torley Linden: Yes, we definitely should, and please DO enter it on the public Issue Tracker, Milton!
Torley Linden: http://jira.secondlife.com
Pastrami Linden: Milton Wisent: Will the problem with overexposure at noon and other daytime settings be fixed with ATI release 7.12?
Pastrami Linden: Milton it's a preset problem
Pastrami Linden: andwill be fixed in the next release
Zen Linden: hmmm, slide show preset
Zen Linden: hehe
Torley Linden: And then I'll update the WindLight FAQ @ http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight to reflect the good news.
Torley Linden: Haha Zen!
Pastrami Linden: Shady Fox: I haven't checked yet, has the windlight preference saving and exchanging with others been implemented yet? Or will that have to wait for a asset server change?
Pastrami Linden: not yet, Shady
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/16540 
Torley Linden: *is vaguely reminded of the rendering modes in Far Cry...*
Pastrami Linden: Harleen Gretzky: Will Estates be able to eventually set WindLight enviroments for their Estates and Regions?
Pastrami Linden: TOrley, about time to throw u that FAQ
Pastrami Linden: up
Pastrami Linden: :)
Shady Fox: Yay! I get to do it the old fashion way.. tell everyone each setting. :D :P
Torley Linden: Yes, I pasted the link earlier, here's the specific section...
Torley Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight#When_is_WindLight_going_to_be_server-side.3F
Torley Linden: And the answer is a big YES, Harleen.
Pastrami Linden: there you go
Pastrami Linden: is there a chance that will be implemented Real time shadows for prims and avatar?
Harleen Gretzky: sweet
Pastrami Linden: Andreas Winger: ok my question is: is there a chance that will be implemented Real time shadows for prims and avatar?
Pastrami Linden: Andreas, at some point in the mid-future
Torley Linden: Mmmm the shadow followup question, that's always a popular one!
Pastrami Linden: but not very soon
Shady Fox: Woo 'mid-future'.
Pastrami Linden: Saijanai Kuhn: in the long run, I'd like to see GUI skins that can be tied to windlight settings. at the really high end, things like rain dripping down the GUI portion of the GUI windows should be possible
Andreas Winger: ok thank you :)
Pastrami Linden: Saijanai, eventualy that should be possible
Pastrami Linden: but that's a very advanced feature and needs to wait for skinnable, ahh, skins!
Torley Linden: Sai, that would be a feast for the eyes, say you go into some aqua environment and get all this water splashed... and then your buttons, they start to rust...
Torley Linden: and then you can't click them, and sink into oblivion...
Torley Linden: and then you remember IT WAS ALL A DREAM... OR WAS IT!???
Torley Linden: ;)
Pastrami Linden: lol
Zante Zapedzki: :p
Jeremy Linden: !
Pastrami Linden: Milton Wisent: There are many advanced sky (and water) presets. It would be nice to allow mapping of the presets to default lighting...so 4pm always looked a certain way. Since each monitor/graphics card is different, it would be great if their was an SL place you could go to see your presets against standard textures, transparences, light sources, etc. so both residents and developers had a common standard. The new options give many ways to make a carefully constructed garment or object look bad. There are examples on the Blaze blog
Saijanai Kuhn: not what I had in mind, but sure, why not...
Shady Fox: Torley's been to Taco Bell one to many times.
Pastrami Linden: Milton, try going to Bug Island
Pastrami Linden: it's where we go to do sanity checks
Pastrami Linden: :)
Torley Linden: Milton, quick Q, what's the URL to that blog?
Shady Fox: (I have NO idea what I meant)
Milton Wisent: one sec
Pastrami Linden: Zante Zapedzki: what's the official stance on ubrowser/html on a prim, is it ever planned to be more than a media texture?
Pastrami Linden: others?
Milton Wisent: About halfway down the page: http://web.mac.com/blazecolumbia/Blaze/BlazeBlog/BlazeBlog.html
Al Sonic: Whoa. Alt-clicking's gone all wonky.
Saijanai Kuhn: anyone know of downtime scheduled for today? Trying to make sure my ntext meeting isn't cancelled, cause I'm the one setting it up...
Torley Linden: Zante, I believe that's still being worked on... not sure exactly of implementation.
Zante Zapedzki: : ]
Torley Linden: Al, Alt-zooming on some prims and linksets is buggy. We know 'bout that.
Milton Wisent: This is a picture: http://web.mac.com/blazecolumbia/Blaze/BlazeBlog/Entries/2007/11/15_A_Look_at_WindLIght.html
Torley Linden: Zante: I think someone like Callum Linden would know a lot more.
Torley Linden: Great, thanks Milton! I shall bookmark it and have a closer look.
Saijanai Kuhn wants svg on a prim far more than html on a prim
Torley Linden: Mmmm vector goodness.
Zante Zapedzki: I've had a response from him, just looking for more info : ) I won't ask it here again
Torley Linden: Ah. K!
Torley Linden: Zante, did you already see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/HTML_on_a_Prim_Use_Cases too?
Zante Zapedzki: yup
Pastrami Linden: Andreas Winger: I noticed that when there is a prim with glow feature on it affect HUD objects and Resident tags...you plan to fix this?
Torley Linden: It's from awhile back, but... ah great, you've sure done your research!
Zante Zapedzki: thanks though
Pastrami Linden: BigPapi, wanna address that?
Torley Linden: Yeah, there are a number of glow quirks linked to from https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3657 , we've been keeping tabs on that...
Andreas Winger: thank you :)
BigPapi Linden: Yes.
BigPapi Linden: Glow currently affects hud objects (and name tags).
Saijanai Kuhn: shameless plug for the AW Groupies stuff: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Use_Cases#Viewer_related_Use_Cases
BigPapi Linden: This was in response to numerous requests for allowing glow on hud objects.
BigPapi Linden: However, that has the side effect of making it affect any hud object that doesn't glow but is in front of a glowing object.
Pastrami Linden: Sacha Bowie: windlight still now does not work a lot ..you cant rezz the world around and a lot of crashes using the cam...but with the new havok i saw you resolved for most the alpha problems...what is changing now with the new release..(sorry but im coming too late maybe im just arrived)
BigPapi Linden: Sorry, mike was on
Pastrami Linden: Sacha look at the list here:
Pastrami Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/12/17/new-windlight-viewer-extended-commentary-75762/
BigPapi Linden: After further evaluation, HUD objects will NO LONGER be able to glow, but will obscure glowing objects properly.
Pastrami Linden: Ron Overdrive: Quick question, what kind of systems is Linden Labs using to test Windlight? I've noticed that with exception of high end cards like nVidia's 8600 series and up there's a signifigant performance drop (like 50%).
Andreas Winger: Thank you BigPapi :)
Torley Linden: BigPapi: I think I'm sorta gonna miss that! Oh well, there's always RenderGlowMinLuminance, aye?
Sacha Bowie: thks
Pastrami Linden: Ron, the drops are definitely not that large across all the graphics cards-
Torley Linden: Sounds like a good point for Jeremy to address in his superb documentation too, should folks wonder, "Why isn't my HUD glowing?"
Pastrami Linden: most, at their worst, are abot 20% slower
BigPapi Linden: No, torley.
Jeremy Linden: Hmm.
Pastrami Linden: now, to answer your question directly-
Pastrami Linden: we use EVERYTHING
Pastrami Linden: old integrated hardware
BigPapi Linden: Render glow min luminance will not pick up hud objects either.
Pastrami Linden: midline cards
Pastrami Linden: borked Apples
Pastrami Linden: and high end rigs
Shady Fox: You use Vic20's?
Zen Linden: I developed a lot of my stuff on an x1300 that works relatively well on high
Pastrami Linden: though we try to stay away from super high end rigs because it sways our focus
Torley Linden: BigPapi: Oh, to clarify, I mean: as a workaround for a full-screen "soft effect", because I believe it was Runitai who earlier suggested putting a transparent HUD across the whole screen and applying glow to it.
Pastrami Linden: now, that said, which card is giving *you* the problems?
Ron Overdrive: all but the 8600GT and up
BigPapi Linden: Ah yes. RenderGlowMinLuminance is *the* way to go for full screen glow / wedding filter type effects.
Ron Overdrive: littereally
Torley Linden: Thanx BigPapi. =D Hehe, "wedding filter".
Pastrami Linden: Ron, I need some more than "all" - you're really using the 200+ cards out there?
Pastrami Linden: :)
Zante Zapedzki: lol : )
Turtle AO: 2959 bytes free
Torley Linden: Glub glub... pardon, crashed!
BigPapi Linden: Because the Release viewer can only be compared directly to Windlight on Low.
Ron Overdrive: Zen: default, high, and custom
Pastrami Linden: Ron all on the same machine?
Ron Overdrive: even with basic shaders turned off I still get at least 25% hit
Saijanai Kuhn: Performance hit is relative. ON a mac, I'm currently getting 3.1 fps here with normal main viewer settings
Torley Linden: Oh and Ron, I'd like to add that there've been a lot of helpful Residents on the Issue Tracker who've provided us with system info that helped us track down some of the hottest issues so we could improve performance. Those sorts of distributed experiences really help.
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/16541 
Pastrami Linden: Ron, what's your machine?
Zen Linden: what size monitor are you using? The 6600 and the x1300 are often fill rate bound
BigPapi Linden: Sounds like you might have a bad motherboard or something else that's affecting performance with WindLight. With basic shaders off, a *boost* in performance is actually pretty standard.
Pastrami Linden: alright, moving on till we get some specs from Ron
Ron Overdrive: 1.8ghz Dual core AMD, 2 gigs ram, and those video cards.. the work machine is a bit beefier
Pastrami Linden: there we go!
Pastrami Linden: Ron,
Torley Linden: You graphics gurus are doctors of development! WindLight clinic in-session... :)
Pastrami Linden: at work,
Pastrami Linden: are you allowed to swap cards?
Zen Linden: the x1300 and the 6600 usually give me about 15-30 fps on medium
Ron Overdrive: 2.4ghz Dual core Intel, 4 gigs ram, 8800GTX
Zen Linden: and 10-17 fps or so on high
Pastrami Linden: yes, at work can you swap your graphics cards?
Ron Overdrive: unfortunately no, I'm not allowed to mess with the hardware
Pastrami Linden: okay-
Pastrami Linden: with a hit on that many cards, something else might be suspicious
Saijanai Kuhn wants the Windlight team to fix Apple piss-porr attitude about grpahics cards (especially in 3 year old PowerPC Macs)
Pastrami Linden: for starters, each time you put a new one in,
Pastrami Linden: be sure to hit-
Pastrami Linden: recommended settings
Pastrami Linden: as a baseline
Pastrami Linden: what OS is this, XP?
Ron Overdrive: yes XP, even tested on KUbuntu 7.10
Zen Linden: we aim for recommended settings to be the same or better than RC
Zen Linden: sorry if we're not hitting it. We'll be going over some data soon on the subject
Pastrami Linden: Ron, latest drivers/patches for XP and hardware?
Ron Overdrive: XP fully patched, tried official drivers recomended by nVidia and beta drivers
BigPapi Linden: I don't know how it can be anything other than something wrong with your system ron. What you're seeing does NOT match up with what your performance *should* be on that hw.
Zen Linden: yeah, i get around 15-20 fps on my 6600 on ubuntu on high
Pastrami Linden: Ron could you go to a friend's house with all this hardware and give it a shot there?
Ron Overdrive: KUbuntu 7.10 fully patched as well, tried 100.14 and 196.04 drivers
Zen Linden: well, all i can say is we'll be getting some fps data back from the clients and will be making some recommended settings changes based on that
Zen Linden: if there are any large differences between RC and WL on default settings, we will be adjusting settings accordingly
Pastrami Linden: Ron my best advice to you would be to go find other machines to test on
Zen Linden: er s/RC/Main Viewer
Pastrami Linden: some of those cards you mentioned (like 7900) should tear through the new viewer
Pastrami Linden: Monalisa Robbiani: I got another question. I am an amateur photographer in RL and I miss many options to take really good snapshots. How about implementing optional extra light sources like a fill-in flash, or the possibilty to set the depth of sharpness, focal length and other things.
Torley Linden: *is reminded of the motion blur in-game snapshot effect in Test Drive Unlimited*
Pastrami Linden: Monalisa (great name btw) some of that stuff will come with post processing filters
Pastrami Linden: you'll just have to hang tight!
Torley Linden: Sounds like some of this could be achieved with shader magic like Pastrami said.
Monalisa Robbiani: shader magic?
Torley Linden: *remembers the nightvision one from a very early WindLight*
Pastrami Linden: :)
Torley Linden: Monalisa, http://www.nvidia.com/object/feature_pixelshader.html for more info :)
Pastrami Linden: Talarus Luan: Maybe has been asked already, but I recently arrived. What progress on the 256-color banding issue? VWR-3111
Pastrami Linden: Zen?
Zen Linden: not much but you do know about the work around, correct?
Talarus Luan: <-- uses Omega drivers, so turning off Catalyst AI doesn't work
Zen Linden: I don't believe we support the omega drivers at the moment
Torley Linden: Out of curiosity to learn more, Talarus, why are you using the Omega drivers?
Zen Linden: laptop?
Talarus Luan: Well, it's either omegas or a steady slideshow in any sim more complicated than a flat chunk of terrain
AC: I use ATI omega driver on my laptop
Zen Linden: yep
Zen Linden: dell?
AC: Toshiba
Talarus Luan: No, I have a Radeon 9800 Pro
Torley Linden: Whoa, I did something weird that glitched my water. *makes a note to try to repro later*
Andros Zhangsun: Hi andreas
BigPapi Linden: Don't make us take away your slider priviledges torley... ;)
Torley Linden: OH NOES! :o ;)
Zen Linden: Hmm... the 9800 pro we have at the office seemed to run WL without too much of a problem with ATIs normal drivers. Why the switch?
Andros Zhangsun: Hello
Talarus Luan: ^^See above
Andros Zhangsun: can anyone answer me?
Saijanai Kuhn: Hello ANdros... Was that the answer you needed?
Andros Zhangsun: erm..
Pastrami Linden: Andros please IM me any questions
Torley Linden: Andros, if it's a WindLight question, can you please IM it to Pastrami Linden? =)
Andros Zhangsun: what are you all doin here??
Talarus Luan: The standard ATIs just don't perform well enough to be useful for SL. Also, I have them for other applications for the same reason
AC: :)
Zen Linden: hmmm.... sorry to hear that. Last I checked, the 9800 ran well for me, I guess I'll have to test it again
Torley Linden: We're having a WindLight Office Hour Question & Answer Session!
Pastrami Linden: Andors these are WindLight office hours
Torley Linden: Andros, for more info on what these hours are about... see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight
Andros Zhangsun: ??
Pastrami Linden: Al Sonic: Alright, here's a question that hit me while trying Torley's 'Ice-Like' water setting: have you considered making the water fog color look less, um, Full Bright? So that such a frozen icy water doesn't glow at night?
Andros Zhangsun: okay
Torley Linden: It'll tell you more about WindLight and why we're here. :)
Talarus Luan: It runs well, with the Omegas. :)
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Pastrami Linden: Al, is it glowin around the moon glow or in general
Torley Linden: LOL, I was just using that preset, Al... hmmm that's an intriguing observation tho.
Al Sonic: *doublechecks*
Torley Linden: Pastrami, looks like in general to me...
Torley Linden: You can try it with Second Plague too, the red looks very bright at midnight.
BigPapi Linden: Do you mean bright, or actually getting picked up for Render Glow?
Al Sonic: Yep, the ocean is white, white, white,
BigPapi Linden: The two are very different.
Pastrami Linden: well, that might be a preset issue
Al Sonic: so I'd have to either make it less full bright, or set the water color to change with time of day.
Pastrami Linden: Al how does it look on "Default"
Pastrami Linden: ?
Zen Linden: Talurus, I've been talking more with dev relations at ATI... most dealing with vista issues, but I'll be sure to mention the banding problems as well.
Torley Linden: Pastrami, it's more apparent with water that looks solid from atop and is unnatural colors.
Talarus Luan: Cool. :) Ultimately, the Omegas are nothign more than the Catalyst drivers with config tweaks built-in and a custom set of bundled support apps
Torley Linden: BigPapi, and it's bright... I have RenderGlow off and it still looks "loud". I'll take screenshots for later.
Pastrami Linden: well, it all depends- if Al is seeing relatively normal water with Default
BigPapi Linden: K. that worries me less.
Pastrami Linden: but funky behavior with CUstom settings
Talarus Luan: So, there should be a way to get the Omegas to behave like the regular Catalyst drivers
BigPapi Linden: That just sounds like an overall preset issue (midnight was too bright too)
Al Sonic: Default has a fairly dark blue so that it doesn't stand out so much, I tend to think.
Pastrami Linden: I'm non too concerned-
Pastrami Linden: that's what sliders are for
Talarus Luan: ..for this issue, that is
Pastrami Linden: if he's seeeing graphics BUGS
Pastrami Linden: like a red sea becoming completely white
Pastrami Linden: that's an issue
Torley Linden: Well, I shall take some pictures and ye be the judge... it's not so much an objective bug as overall dark sky settings don't appear to affect water brightness as much as you might expect...
Torley Linden: I'm seeing this is somewhat remedied by decreasing luminosity of Water Fog Color tho...
Al Sonic: It's true that the time of day affects the water's brightness, but it could do with a stronger darkening effect.
Torley Linden: Some people might want freakin' bright magma in the midst of their dark cavern tho, for example...
Torley Linden: AHHHH USE CASES!
Al Sonic: Heh, indeed Torley.
Torley Linden: In any case, thanks for bringing that up, Al.
Torley Linden: :-)
Pastrami Linden: alright, closing this up
Pastrami Linden: one last question...
Al Sonic: Sometimes it seems everything needs a Fullbright checkbox.
Pastrami Linden: Milton Wisent: Will sim owners, of varying skill, modifying windlinght settings, change it adversely for anyone visiting the sim...Some sim owners have limited skills in this area
Pastrami Linden: Milton, it depends-
Pastrami Linden: once it gets implemented
BigPapi Linden: YOu can always override their settings locally. :)
Pastrami Linden: right
Torley Linden: Haha, yeah, override their bad taste!
Torley Linden: ;)
Pastrami Linden: actually, this is the last question-
Pastrami Linden: Vanessa Eckersley: Hello Pastrami :) I've been reporting a mini-map bug (VWR-3902) Might it be only platform-related?
Talarus Luan: Cascading Environment Sheets v1.0
Milton Wisent: Just concerned your average 3 week SL resident walks into a sim, and everything is suddenly weird for them
Torley Linden: Also, since skies + waters etc. will be tradeable assets (share-able inventory), it'll make it easier for folks who aren't so skilled to get good results, similar to how you can buy custom skins and various goods to make your avatar look awesome, even if you aren't an adept craftsperson yourself.
Torley Linden: If you can't make settings yourself, get 'em from someone who's done that work for ya!
Milton Wisent: most people never touch custom settings and have no idea
Torley Linden: But we always encourage experimentation and education and having fun... to better understand the system.
Milton Wisent: The defaults need to be good
Pastrami Linden: Vanessa, what do you mean by platfor?
Pastrami Linden: m
Milton Wisent: and easily selectable
Milton Wisent: which they aren't
Areal Loonie: why asset instead of lsl function?
Vanessa Eckersley: platform, as Operating system
Pastrami Linden: cool-
Torley Linden: Vanessa, do you see that bug under the NON-WindLight Release Candidate?
Vanessa Eckersley: sorry for being not clear
Vanessa Eckersley: didn't test the RC yet
Pastrami Linden: this might be the first we've seen of this bug
Pastrami Linden: Torley?
Saijanai Kuhn: I dont' see why you couldnt' have an LSL function to set the same settings as the asset
Torley Linden: OK, I'd recommend checking that out and changing the Affects Version/s if it's not specific to WindLight, otherwise that version should = First Look: WindLight. How strange.
Torley Linden: I haven't seen this bug before, Pastrami.
Pastrami Linden: right
Talarus Luan: llEnvironmentSystem()?
Pastrami Linden: alright all- I'm heading out. Others feel free to stick around if you wish
Pastrami Linden: Best of luck to all!
Torley Linden: Vanessa, is Preferences > General tab's "Rotate Mini-Map" ON or OFF?
Torley Linden: Thanx for moderating Pastrami!
Saijanai Kuhn: Thanks for doing this guys
Vanessa Eckersley: objects seem to be attached to the bottom-left corner of the mini-map
Torley Linden: And thanx each and everyone for coming to our WindLight Office Hours. We thank you for using WindLight!
Vanessa Eckersley: I'll check
Saijanai Kuhn: BTW, a shameless plug, for the geek-at-heart, the AW Groupies meeting is in 20 minutes
Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies
Vanessa Eckersley: it's ON
Torley Linden: OK Vanessa... I'm hoping more folks who've seen it (on Mac OS X or other platforms) can chime in there... what happens when you set it to OFF and walk around?
Saijanai Kuhn: IM me for an invite, cause its on a private IBM island
Jeremy Linden: Hello! We're glad you made it. Welcome to... THE FUTURE!
Vanessa Eckersley: still wrongly centerd
Torley Linden: Kewl beans Sai, thanx for the group invite and I'm sorry I won't be able to make it, but the thoughtfulness is appreciated.
Torley Linden: Hahaha Jeremy!
Vanessa Eckersley: brb
Torley Linden: OK Vanessa... yeah, let's see who else experiences that bug. Very, very odd.
Saijanai Kuhn: we have the transcripts of meetings up usually within a few minutes of the meeting ending
Torley Linden: There was a WindLight issue reported by several about the "W" on the World Map and Mini-Map disappearing...
Vanessa Eckersley: they move along but centered on bottom left corner
Torley Linden: I've got to go too but thanks all! Take care.
Saijanai Kuhn: Then we meet again at Zero's to hopefully give him feedback later today
Torley Linden: Haha Dol, nice title... ;)
Torley Linden: You know what *I* prefer.
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Zen Linden: later!
Torley Linden: L8r!