Mesh/Archive/2011-10-03

==Agenda==
# SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]
# Re. SH-2374, the idea of a privately funded solution (i.e. kickstarter) has been suggested and is being considered. If such a thing were to move forward, would you be willing to work with such a project to expedite the process, through the snowstorm devs or other avenue, and if so, to what extent? (Maxwell Graf)
# CTS transition - Fate of CTS jiras. I saw this messgae on one of my CTS jiras "Please enter your Mesh related bug in project "1. Second Life Viewer - VWR" and set the Component to "Mesh". Thank you!". Does this mean they will be eliminated unless we re-enter them? Is there a way of doing this that will preserver comments etc? (Drongle McMahon)
# I noticed that SH-2435 was marked resolved although the problem remains (albeit not the SL uploader's fault). In another jira, it was mentioned that an extra option could be added to the the SL uploader to counter the Blender 2.5x rotation issue for joint offsets. Is this still being considered? [Ashasekayi Ra]
# The date of daily build is not correct. It shows "10/04/2011 8:26:41 (1317684401)". It is the date of future. [Yuzuru Jewell]
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*Aki (aki.shichiroji)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*eithne Blaylock (eithne.blaylock)
*Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
*Graham Dartmouth (graham.dartmouth)
*Imaze Rhiano (imaze.rhiano)
*Jusden Jonstone (jusden.jonstone)
*lonetorus Habilis (lonetorus.habilis)
*Maxwell Graf (maxwell.graf)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nebadon Izumi (nebadon.izumi)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Prep Linden (prep.linden)
*Rain Edring (rain.edring)
*davep (runitai.linden)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Vir Linden (vir.linden)
*Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday October 3, 2011==
[12:01]	Nebadon Izumi 	is it me or is the sim next door missing?
[12:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I can update my tools by your advice. Thank you.
[12:01]	eithne Blaylock 	hi
[12:01]	Maxwell Graf 	its down, nebs
[12:01]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	its missing
[12:01]	Nebadon Izumi 	k
[12:01]	Maxwell Graf 	been down for days
[12:01]	Nebadon Izumi 	oh heh
[12:01]	Charlar Linden 	ackk
[12:01]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha waves to Eithne, El and Rusalka
[12:01]	Charlar Linden 	one of our submarines, i mean sims, is missing
[12:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[12:01]	Graham Dartmouth 	think ele is still afk
[12:03]	Eleanora Newell 	back, hi all
[12:03]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello. Vir Linden.
[12:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	wb
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer 	Dang.
[12:04]	Vir Linden 	Hi all.
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	ok let's get started folks
[12:04]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Agenda is not cleaed.
[12:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	The questions above Daniel's are from last week btw.
[12:04]	Charlar Linden 	i'm sorry - hold on
[12:05]	davep (runitai.linden) 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:05]	davep (runitai.linden) 	1-5 are from last week
[12:05]	Charlar Linden 	i'm sorry - hold on#1 SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]
[12:05]	Charlar Linden 	(using new numbering)
[12:06]	Maxwell Graf 	lol
[12:06]	Jusden Jonstone 	lol
[12:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lmao
[12:06]	Eleanora Newell 	:)
[12:06]	Nebadon Izumi 	heheh
[12:06]	Graham Dartmouth 	wtg Max
[12:06]	Jusden Jonstone 	Jusden Jonstone taps toes
[12:08]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha ponders the silent void. o.o
[12:08]	Charlar Linden 	we're looking into options on this, more investigation. I'm going to add some notes to SH-2374 to that effect. We know this is something important to people. We'll have an update in the next couple weeks.
[12:08]	Charlar Linden 	Additionally we may be reaching out to some of you individually for feedback.
[12:09]	Maxwell Graf 	Excellent. That clears things up a bit.
[12:09]	Eleanora Newell 	That would be appreciated, thank you.
[12:09]	Charlar Linden 	the 'someday/maybe' title for the backlog it got moved to is not bad, like it might imply
[12:09]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks. That sounds more promising than just the "maybe".
[12:10]	Charlar Linden 	it just means we don't have it scheduled currently.
[12:10]	Charlar Linden 	We do also have some internal tasks to research, which aren't visible. Sorry for the confusion around that.
[12:10]	Graham Dartmouth 	understood, but I dont think its an issue that is going to go away
[12:10]	Charlar Linden 	Next?
[12:10]	Maxwell Graf 	consider also that the almost 800 who voted on it are only a % of those who are actually concerned and affected by this.
[12:10]	Vir Linden 	It's something we would like to do. Currently there are many non-mesh priorities that also require development resources, so it's always a balancing act.
[12:10]	Charlar Linden 	right Graham, which is one reason we're still looking at it.
[12:11]	Nebadon Izumi 	ok well I think perhaps in the future, when changing status of that nature
[12:11]	Graham Dartmouth 	appreciate your answer :0
[12:11]	Nebadon Izumi 	a Linden should make some comments explaining their action
[12:11]	Charlar Linden 	as I said, i'm goign to be updating that jira later
[12:11]	Nebadon Izumi 	you could avoid pitchfork and torch scenarios
[12:11]	Vir Linden 	The "fix version" field is intended for internal use by sprint teams.
[12:11]	Maxwell Graf 	It would help us a lot. :)
[12:11]	Vir Linden 	It really isn't meaningful for anyone else.
[12:12]	Maxwell Graf 	it is when there are 800 people watching it for updates.
[12:12]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	yeah, save us lugging the tar and featuers to the meetings.
[12:12]	Nebadon Izumi 	lol
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I'm very glad to hear that you guys are still exploring it. I mean it is the most interesting part of mesh for me and some other creators.
[12:12]	Jusden Jonstone 	and then its changed without any explaination whatsoever....i think we all have seen JIRA's relegated to similar descriptions and sit idle with no action for years
[12:13]	Graham Dartmouth 	from what I understand from many students, it is a deal breaker for adopting mesh
[12:13]	Maxwell Graf 	you crazy guys, you had us going there for a minute, yuk yuk yuk.
[12:13]	Rusalka Writer 	I thought Blender was the deal breaker.
[12:13]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha nods. "I've heard that too Graham."
[12:13]	Eleanora Newell 	for many it is the defining line as to whether they will accept mesh clothing or not
[12:13]	lonetorus Habilis 	runitai, do you have any comments on parametric deformers and layer systems? (no you dont know when) but perhaps some technical thoughts and or possibilities?
[12:14]	Maxwell Graf 	....... ....... .......
[12:14]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Asha snorts
[12:14]	davep (runitai.linden) 	I have no comment -- focused on GL compatibility issues, myself
[12:15]	lonetorus Habilis 	noone from the linden side brave enough to give it some thought? XD
[12:15]	Charlar Linden 	we should move on
[12:15]	Maxwell Graf 	lol
[12:16]	Nyx Linden 	believe us, we've been thinking about it and discussing it. Not having the resources to implement it doesn't mean it hasn't been discussed
[12:16]	lonetorus Habilis 	and im not even asking you nyx, you always gave snake answers ;)
[12:16]	Graham Dartmouth 	nyx, with respect, the community are more concerned with agtions than discussions
[12:16]	Maxwell Graf 	If you look and listen closely, you can almost hear the wheels of the big machine turning...
[12:17]	Rusalka Writer 	Can we do agenda ahead of conspiracy?
[12:17]	Charlar Linden 	#2 Re. SH-2374, the idea of a privately funded solution (i.e. kickstarter) has been suggested and is being considered. If such a thing were to move forward, would you be willing to work with such a project to expedite the process, through the snowstorm devs or other avenue, and if so, to what extent? (Maxwell Graf)
[12:17]	Charlar Linden 	this one seems more like a discussion between y'all
[12:18]	Maxwell Graf 	actually, its aimed directly at yall.
[12:18]	Charlar Linden 	oops, correct
[12:18]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	As in a discussion for 3rd party viewer devs?
[12:18]	Nebadon Izumi 	it's comin right for us
[12:19]	Maxwell Graf 	in other words, if it were to be funded privately, how much help, if any, could we get from you on this?
[12:19]	Maxwell Graf 	TPV devs or no
[12:19]	Maxwell Graf 	just from the LL side.
[12:19]	Charlar Linden 	We're discussing...
[12:20]	Jusden Jonstone 	if something were developed outside and it was functional is something you can at least commit that you would consider adopting and pushing upstream into linden development?
[12:22]	Maxwell Graf 	the option of sending you liquor, hookers and chocolate is still on the table.
[12:22]	Graham Dartmouth 	privately funded, of course
[12:22]	Maxwell Graf 	aye
[12:22]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:23]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Nobobdy is getting any of my chololate.
[12:23]	Vir Linden 	We can discuss external dev work more when we have a chance to follow up. Still looking at our technical options.
[12:23]	eithne Blaylock 	or my Liquor
[12:23]	Vir Linden 	We will plan to revisit in 2 weeks.
[12:23]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	i know the project im working on has a major techinical hold up @ the monent
[12:23]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	u mean revisit here, or among yourselves?
[12:24]	Vir Linden 	Discuss here in 2 weeks.
[12:24]	Nebadon Izumi 	sounds fair
[12:24]	Prep Linden 	One of the options is that we are looking into supporting rigging to collision volumes, but we need some sample content that has a rigged mesh that is weighted to the avatar collision volumes. This might scale to match the morph distortions...but we need some samples. (send them to prep@lindenlab.com)
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Oh great
[12:24]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	fair enough Thx
[12:24]	Charlar Linden 	ok. next item:
[12:24]	Charlar Linden 	#3 CTS transition - Fate of CTS jiras. I saw this messgae on one of my CTS jiras "Please enter your Mesh related bug in project "1. Second Life Viewer - VWR" and set the Component to "Mesh". Thank you!". Does this mean they will be eliminated unless we re-enter them? Is there a way of doing this that will preserver comments etc? (Drongle McMahon)
[12:24]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Rigged to the collision volume?
[12:24]	Prep Linden 	asha: yes
[12:25]	Maxwell Graf 	if the offset of the deformation is only .001 away from the initial mesh physics of the avatar, why is that even part of the solution?
[12:25]	Maxwell Graf 	it seems like thats being overly complicated.
[12:25]	Vir Linden 	We are not deleting content, but we are phasing out CTS for new issues.
[12:26]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	wouldn't it be better to have the new av mesh physic match even if it is only so little off?
[12:26]	Drongle McMahon 	Vir ... so should we re-enter them in VWR if we want you to keep them in mind?
[12:27]	Vir Linden 	Do not need to reenter existing bugs
[12:27]	Drongle McMahon 	ok
[12:27]	Vir Linden 	We triage these things weekly
[12:27]	Charlar Linden 	Next
[12:27]	Charlar Linden 	#4 I noticed that SH-2435 was marked resolved although the problem remains (albeit not the SL uploader's fault). In another jira, it was mentioned that an extra option could be added to the the SL uploader to counter the Blender 2.5x rotation issue for joint offsets. Is this still being considered? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:29]	Prep Linden 	Yes, but we are giving the Blender fellows a chance to resolve it. If it doesn't seem like they are, we'll up the priority in that jira.
[12:29]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Alrighty then. Thanks.
[12:29]	Charlar Linden 	ok, then, next?
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer 	Pony.
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	#5 The date of daily build is not correct. It shows "10/04/2011 8:26:41 (1317684401)". It is the date of future. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:30]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/242181/index.html
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	you can reproduce bugs we haven't even written yet!
[12:30]	Charlar Linden 	getting builds from the future is a Feature!
[12:31]	Eleanora Newell 	lol
[12:31]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I want to know correct build date.
[12:31]	Rusalka Writer 	Now they can take tomorrow off.
[12:31]	davep (runitai.linden) 	the build farm is trying to use the Scotty method, but it doesn't quite get it
[12:31]	Imaze Rhiano 	awww... breaking causality laws again? ebil... ebill....
[12:31]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Please show it by SLT.
[12:32]	Drongle McMahon 	It's in New Zealand
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden) 	in all seriousness, though, yeah, that's odd
[12:32]	davep (runitai.linden) 	passing that along to the build farm folks now
[12:33]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	it looks like the build farm picked up GMT instead of the local time
[12:33]	Drongle McMahon 	Wherte is the international dateline in SL?
[12:33]	Rusalka Writer 	To the right.
[12:33]	Nebadon Izumi 	maybe its a UTC time?
[12:33]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	I can't check the viewer was updated.
[12:33]	Nebadon Izumi 	vs PDT
[12:34]	Drongle McMahon 	I always thought it was converted to local time of the person looking at it.
[12:34]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	gmc and utc are similar as they are based @ the same reference line
[12:34]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Here is 4:34AM
[12:34]	Rusalka Writer 	Yeey.
[12:34]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	ouch
[12:34]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	im three hours ahead of SLT my self
[12:35]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	But it shows 8:26AM..
[12:35]	Rusalka Writer 	Three hours behind here.
[12:35]	Charlar Linden 	That's the end of the agenda, folks
[12:35]	Rusalka Writer 	Oh, yeah.
[12:35]	Rusalka Writer 	Be back next week for more invisible ponies!
[12:36]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	Yuzura if it built @ say 0026 SLT then utc/gmt would be 0826
[12:36]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	you guys asked for example content rigged to avatar collision volumes. Where would we get the avatar with collision volumes intact?
[12:36]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*You
[12:36]	Eleanora Newell 	thank you for addressing that first issue with us, lindens
[12:37]	Eleanora Newell 	yeah, asha's question, how do we do that?
[12:37]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you wolfpup. I found it was a bug of time translation..
[12:37]	Nyx Linden 	local to your machine?
[12:39]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	not
[12:40]	Nyx Linden 	so we still need to look into the issue, correct yuzuru?
[12:40]	Prep Linden 	Asha: you might to have create them and name them ... hold checking the source for the names...
[12:41]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	Prep could the default be pulled from the viewr itself?
[12:41]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	What source?
[12:41]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you. Nyx.
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Source as in the code for the mesh viewer?
[12:43]	Prep Linden 	Asha: we're checking into this atm...
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Alright.
[12:46]	Prep Linden 	Asha: So it looks like you'll need to create the collision volumes and name them from the avatar_skeleton.xml accordingly. So the pevlsi collision volume would be named PELVIS.
[12:46]	Prep Linden 	I'll post some notes and a request in the forums.
[12:46]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks Prep, That would be helpful.
[12:47]	Charlar Linden 	I have a general request: If you are a creator who has a *significant* interest in pathfinding (dynamic object movement thru the world) and would be willing to commit some time, please send me an email (charlar@lindenlab.com).
[12:47]	Wolfpup (wolfpup.lowenhar)	Nyx could i get a few minutes of your time after the meeting
[12:48]	Charlar Linden 	i think we're pretty much done here, folks....
[12:49]	Eleanora Newell 	thanks, lindens
[12:49]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks for the meeting.
[12:49]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[12:49]	Graham Dartmouth 	°͜°
[12:49]	Graham Dartmouth 	tune in next week same time
[12:49]	Eleanora Newell 	bye, everyone
[12:49]	eithne Blaylock 	bye
[12:49]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Bye El
[12:49]	Rain Edring 	bye
[12:50]	Aki (aki.shichiroji) 	Thanks for the meeting. Passing your request on to Neobokrug Elytis, Charlar. I believe he was working something related
[12:50]	Charlar Linden 	i'm calling it - the usergroup meeting is done, thanks!
[12:50]	Charlar Linden 	see you next week
[12:50]	Charlar Linden 	thanks Aki
[12:50]	Vir Linden 	bye all
[12:50]	davep (runitai.linden) 	thanks folks
[12:50]	Prep Linden 	bye folks!
[12:50]	Graham Dartmouth 	thank you lindens
[12:50]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	See you next week!
[12:50]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx akk
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