Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-09-06

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on September 6, 2012
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
=== Updates ===
* "L$ received notification not appearing when on an RC region" discovered this weekend.
** It was a showstopper and blocked promotion.
* Second Life Server Channel
* No main channel update this week.
* BlueSteel RC Channel
* This is te same code as Magnum
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.09.04.264357
* LeTigre RC Channel
* This is te same code as Magnum
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.09.04.264357
* Magnum RC Channel
* This is a maint-server project.
* Bug Fixes
** : 	s only change/inherit the active group when they're "rezzed
** : 	group owned objects appear as owned by (nobody) in Top Scripts and Top Colliders 
** : 	Show in search and set for sale remain enabled after owner changed
** : 	Large object instant messages can corrupt returned object location URL making it impossible to determine the object's location.
** : 	Searching legacy names in the "Choose Resident" floater with a period returns no result
** : 	Selected objects move when a new keyframe motion is started
** : 	Scripted agents can't abandon land on private estates
** : 	Please automatically unmute avatars who have muted themselves, and prevent this from occuring server-side.
** : 	When TPing using a landmark the server sends two TeleportStart packets 
** : 	Scripts created by Residents who are limited to only the General maturity rating do not function as expected when inside an object that the scripter created that is running in a Moderate or Adult region 
** : 	llInsertString & llSubStringIndex support for 4 bytes characters broken since 12.02.06.248938 
** : 	The http_request() event fails to trigger in child prims that do not use llHTTPResponse() after it has received 64 HTTP requests and will not trigger again even if the script is reset. 
** : Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08)
** : Attachment point pelvis not being released
** : llRezAtRoot() does not set correct parameters (for sale) on rezzed object in Second Life RC BlueSteel 12.08.03.263047
** : Add object location info to messages, was "Object on land sending excessive messages
** : There is different behaivior between the RC channels and the main channel involving permissions, objects lose modify permissions
** : L$ received notification not appearing when on an RC region
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.09.04.264357
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Updates to Jira bug reporting flow:
** http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/JIRA-Update-Changes-to-The-Bug-Reporting-Process/ba-p/1660981
* https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Good_Building_Practices
** Share that link.
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Server Beta User Group for September 6, 2012:
* [15:00] Kallista Destiny: Hi Oskar
* [15:00] Marigold Devin: Shhh stop talking about him now
* [15:00] Theresa Tennyson: Hi Oskar!
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: maybe I should brony up for this meeting
* [15:00] SonicAnd Miles: AHH!!!!
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: let me relog
* [15:01] Marigold Devin: Hiya Rex
* [15:01] Oppan Gangnam Style!: Commands /1 on or /1 off
* [15:01] Pony ZHAO II ~ Leebra: 28% memory free
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hi marigold
* [15:01] Pagan Sunburn: Hello
* [15:01] Marigold Devin: Welcome back Oskar.
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hi
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: Welcome back Oskar
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: now we wait for my cloud to rez
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: TADA!
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: how u doing oskar? crashing?
* [15:02] Theresa Tennyson: Yikes! Robo-brony!
* [15:02] Pagan Sunburn: Oskar is ponified.!
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: oops missing a hoof
* [15:02] Kallista Destiny: And with a wacking great sword
* [15:02] Pagan SunburnPagan Sunburn facepaws >.<
* [15:02] Pagan Sunburn: Oskar, you have got to do that on AGNI, lol.
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: somebody build a pony ave 4 u:)
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: I built it
* [15:03] Marigold Devin: Is he gonna grief us for the next hour?
* [15:03] arton Rotaru: lets shoot it :P I built a new gun ^^
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: oh. even better. doing that dance with that ave is quite funny. haha
* [15:03] Kallista Destiny: I'd file a JIRA but ...
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I love this dance
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: we use it in all the LL meetings now
* [15:03] Jenna Felton: :smiles
* [15:03] SonicAnd Miles: AHH!!!!
* [15:03] Marigold Devin: Should we all be dancing?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: alright. srs bsns now
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: Oskar your B&
* [15:04] SonicAnd Miles: lol
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I'll pass it out at the end of the meeting
* [15:04] Nalates Urriah: So... did the brand on that avie hurt?
* [15:04] Pagan Sunburn: You should do that if youever visit the club,lol.
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I will
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: the seattle office dropped into the ahern 4 corners area and all did it together
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: it was awesome
* [15:04] Pagan Sunburn: It would be hilarious.
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: ahh. i missed the chance to imortalize u on youtube:)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: later
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: how is everyone today?
* [15:05] Pagan Sunburn: Awwww....I missed it too.
* [15:05] Pagan Sunburn: :P~
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I think I need to go here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/7825249218/
* [15:05] Pagan Sunburn: Been busy
* [15:05] Jenna FeltonJenna Felton is good
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: busy
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: and yes we can discuss the Jira changes
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: after my updates
* [15:06] Jenna FeltonJenna Felton discovered finaly the bug today that llTeleportAgent command crashed an atachment
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: in good news I figured out what the magical fruit growing in my backyard was
* [15:06] Jenna Felton: will have to ddiscover why and how to reprodue
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: it looked like apples but tasted like pears
* [15:06] Marigold Devin: Papples?
* [15:06] Pagan Sunburn: Are yuo getting high Oskar?
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_pyrifolia
* [15:06] Pagan Sunburn: *GIGGLES* :)__Oskar 14:48, 13 September 2012 (PDT)
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I don't need to get high
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I'm my own drug
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: Aisan Pears
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I have a tree full of them
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: so delicious
* [15:07] Marigold Devin: Pagan, I seem to be able to see your front bottom o.O
* [15:07] arton Rotaru: looks alien to me
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I'd share some with you if you were in Seattle
* [15:07] Pagan Sunburn: I need to visit then.
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: last year no fruit this year crazy tonnage
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: ok let's get this meeting started
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: enough fruit talk!
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so we had a long weekend
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: that always makes things a bit more complicated
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: and gives us less time to handle issues discovered during the weekend
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: we thought we were ok
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: until I noticed this on Saturday: SVC-8208
* [15:08] Flame of Jira: Status 499
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: wat!
* [15:09] Oskar LindenOskar Linden pokes the flame
* [15:09] NeoBokrug Elytis: LOL
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: svc-8208
* [15:09] Nalates Urriah: LOL... only your own JIRA items...
* [15:09] Kallista Destiny: it's broken ya'know
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: oh
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: :-/
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: *sigh*
* [15:09] Rex Cronon: btw. that picture on torleys stream looks like it was taken from a tv cartoon series:)
* [15:09] Oskar LindenOskar Linden grumbles
* [15:09] Pagan Sunburn: *GIGGLES* :)__Oskar 14:48, 13 September 2012 (PDT)
* [15:09] Nalates Urriah: We talked with Alexa Linden earlier. We knew this would be a problem.
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: *sigh*
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: ok
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: uhm
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: "L$ received notification not appearing when on an RC region"
* [15:10] arton Rotaru: one more reason to take that back
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: was the issue
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: and it was a serious issue
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: good thing I kept an eye open during my weekend
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so we repro'd it then had to rally the troops to start looking into it
* [15:11] Rex Cronon: why so serious? it is just a notification. right?
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: well
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: hard to say actually
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: anything around L$ is scary
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: can you say BAW?
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: there was enough concern not to ship that code
* [15:12] Pagan Sunburn: Some could claim fraud.
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: so without a Monday to fix it we had to scramble on Tuesday
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: to get a fix ready and tested
* [15:12] Pagan Sunburn: LL cannot afford that and that is why it was so serious.
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: but we got it fixed and QA'd and deployed Wednesday morning
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: sadly this means that the "Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages sent by regions since last rolling restart (2012-08-08) " bug is still on main channel
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: i thought that as long as the actual L$ amount displayed was correct...
* [15:13] Kallista Destiny: Yeah, so you have BAW if you fix it and BAW if you don't Cleft stick time.
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: it's better to catch those issues before promotion
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: what is BAW?
* [15:13] NeoBokrug Elytis: What are the odds of making a new channel, or dedicating an existing channel to fast track issues?
* [15:13] Theresa Tennyson: The amount didn't update either until you clicked it.
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: we do Neo
* [15:13] Rex Cronon: wanted to ask same question as oskar
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: but it takes pre-planning
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: so it goes something like this:
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: Say the word out loud
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: bug goes to main channel
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: BaWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: then we have to find a fix
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: BAWWWWWWWWW
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: hm nothing
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: and we don't see until a few more days that it is a very widespread issue
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: stuff bubbles up
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: inside joke?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: by then it's in it's own maint-server and was given a priority status
* [15:15] Kallista Destiny: whining and moaning way out of porportion to the level of the problem.
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: so then it'll get out the next week
* [15:15] NeoBokrug Elytis: Who's whining?
* [15:15] arton Rotaru: we'll see if it get iut :p
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: but then a big issue gets discovered the next weekend
* [15:15] Kallista Destiny: Smal child crying...
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: AFK...............................
* [15:15] Rex Cronon: ah. afk 4 a few minutes
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: and things start piling up
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: in hindsight pulling it into its own channel would have been a good idea
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: but we didn't know at the time how big the issue was
* [15:16] Jenna FeltonJenna Felton greets Maestro
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: we knew it was annoying and fasttracked it
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: but not fast enough for everyone
* [15:16] Lares Carter: Hi Maestro
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: that and the multiple failed RC's didn't help
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: the best thing would have been for it to have been discovered in RC before main channel promotion
* [15:16] Pagan Sunburn: Hi Mæstro.
* [15:16] arton Rotaru: too many bugfixes at once in the RC lately
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: it's a complicated dance
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: people want fixes fixed
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: we work hard to fix things as fast as possible
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: yes but fixed on the main channel
* [15:17] NeoBokrug Elytis: It doesn't affect me directly, but I have a lot of people in The Wastelands who are on tiered usage. So I tried to document things as best I could. I just was wondering about the process of fast-track patches. Thanks for the insight.
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: to get to main channel it has to go through RC
* [15:17] Kallista Destiny: Unfortunatly the parcel overlay bug is hitting people in the pocketbook
* [15:17] arton Rotaru: sure, but if it never leaves RC ....
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: the fix was fast tracked
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: it just didn't have its own RC
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: a fix was ready the next week
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: it just hit snags in the RC
* [15:18] NeoBokrug Elytis: Yeah! I thought that was pretty swift.
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: I actually called for the team to put the code fix into each RC to give it a higher likelihood of releaseing
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: and it was
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: but then each RC had showstopper issues
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: now, just like last Thursday , it looks like it will go next week. :-)
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: tomorrow morning is when we discuss promotion
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: I will suggest making a side branch with just this fix IN CASE of weekend shenanigans
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: it is extra work in a limited time slot though
* [15:19] NeoBokrug Elytis: Thanks
* [15:19] Pagan Sunburn: That means you have to work overtime, right?
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: let's hope the RC gets the promotion next week though
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: it means other work has to get deprioritized
* [15:20] arton Rotaru: hope is not our best bet I guess :p
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: other work that other people want done
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: it's a balancing game
* [15:20] Pagan Sunburn: It always is.
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: hope worked in 2008 :-p
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: Only so many hours in the day
* [15:20] arton Rotaru: gimmi hope joanna
* [15:20] Oskar LindenOskar Linden shouldn't discuss politics and will get back on topic
* [15:20] Pagan SunburnPagan Sunburn facepaws >.<
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: so... we have a new RC
* [15:21] NeoBokrug Elytis whispers: get more people.
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: and this one combines a few previous RC's
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: and the "Excessive "ParcelOverlay reliable" messages" issue
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: we had a 2nd RC for this week
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: but it failed QA last night
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: physical objects did weird stuff when you moved them across regions
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: weird like losing their root prim
* [15:22] MartinRJ Fayray: hello, I'm sorry for joining late
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:22] Theresa Tennyson: Yikes....
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: Ouch
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: loosing their brain^^
* [15:22] Pagan Sunburn: @_@
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: and weird like removing 'Edit' from the right click vwr menu
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: actually, it was weirder than that
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: it only affected 2-prim objects
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: they'd lose the child prim
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: so yeah, see! we do find bugs before RC
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: double ouch
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: I TOLD YOU
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: dad parents
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: and then you can't select them properly, because the viewer tries to select 2 prims when there's only 1 :)
* [15:22] arton Rotaru: bad*
* [15:23] Pagan Sunburn: :P
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: so I got pinged out of sleep this morning to look into that
* [15:23] Pagan Sunburn: Is it just me or is Mæstro's fingernails painted?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: decided yeah that was bad and not worth putting to RC
* [15:23] Marigold Devin: Painted
* [15:23] Pagan Sunburn: Okay. Just wondering.
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: so we decided to put the Magnum code on all three RC channels
* [15:23] Marigold Devin: (and toes)
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: weird bug though
* [15:24] Pagan Sunburn: o.O
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: maestro also has a nail filing animation
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: bust it out maestro
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: That is indeed strange
* [15:24] Pagan Sunburn: *~*~rofl*~*~
* [15:24] Marigold Devin: He's afk, let's go push him ;-)
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:24] arton Rotaru: so only one chance for next week
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:24] Pagan Sunburn: Linden tipping, like cow tipping but more fun.
* [15:25] Oskar LindenOskar Linden corsses his hooves
* [15:25] arton Rotaru: thats not much hope then :p
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: there is always hope
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: ^_^
* [15:25] Oskar LindenOskar Linden is an optimist
* [15:25] Jenna Felton: hehe
* [15:25] arton Rotaru: star wars IV
* [15:25] Oskar LindenOskar Linden however is paid to be a pessimist
* [15:25] arton Rotaru: a new hope
* [15:25] Theresa Tennyson: It's basically the same stuff that ALMOST made it for weeks....
* [15:25] Kallista Destiny: Is there any chance of rolling back to before 'Overlay'?
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: yes Theresa
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: so super polished by now
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: uhm, no. there were some SEC fixes in there
* [15:26] arton Rotaru: we'll see^^
* [15:26] Kallista Destiny: sighs....
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: easier to roll to just trunk+overlayfix
* [15:26] Pagan Sunburn: Okay, now I have seen everything.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: tell people to stop hacking SL
* [15:26] Pagan Sunburn: A Linden with painted nails and nail file.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: alright
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: so let's talk Jira
* [15:27] Theresa Tennyson: And that would break a lot of things that used the old llVolumeDetect trick for linksets.
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: if you have not seen the blog post
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: here it is: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/JIRA-Update-Changes-to-The-Bug-Reporting-Process/ba-p/1660981
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: it is probably worth a read
* [15:27] arton Rotaru: yeah
* [15:27] Rex Cronon: back
* [15:27] MartinRJ Fayray: why can't you just deactivate commenting on shi*storm jiras like the old 'bring back last names', instead?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: Linden has decided to streamline the bug reporting system
* [15:28] Theresa TennysonTheresa Tennyson was SURE there was a baby in that bathwater when she started....
* [15:28] NeoBokrug Elytis: I think not being able to see other JIRAs is a bad idea. Allowing only the owner to comment on them would be a good middle ground.
* [15:28] arton Rotaru: well, why not publicy visible anymore, I always searched the jira when I had a problem
* [15:28] Jenna Felton: oh, than Lindens become bug hunter now, when reporting bugs becomes much easier
* [15:28] NeoBokrug Elytis: Searching the JIRA is an invaluable asset.
* [15:28] Nalates Urriah: Stramline.... ? Nerf might be a better term.
* [15:28] Kallista Destiny: I realize that you didn't have anything to do with it. But This is really really really lose!
* [15:28] SonicAnd Miles: I love the new JIRA layout
* [15:28] SonicAnd Miles: :p
* [15:29] Kallista Destiny: Double face palm loose
* [15:29] NeoBokrug Elytis: Nalates, it's the nuclear option.
* [15:29] Kallista Destiny: loose
* [15:29] Kallista Destiny: lose*
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: it will be more work for QA in some ways
* [15:29] Rex Cronon: so i won't be able to see jiras made by others?
* [15:29] MartinRJ Fayray: nucular, the word is nucular
* [15:29] arton Rotaru: yup Rex
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: you cannot see the status of bugs you didn't file
* [15:29] Marigold Devin: I can see why you'd do that with JIRAs, esp when they end up more like forum threads than JIRAs.
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: can others still vote on jiras?
* [15:30] Marigold Devin: But ...
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: the forums is a good place for ranting
* [15:30] Nalates Urriah: I filed a bug earlier today. See if you can see it: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-9
* [15:30] Pagan Sunburn: Woot!
* [15:30] NeoBokrug Elytis: Nope.
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: voting on jiras never held any relevance internally
* [15:30] arton Rotaru: Permission Violation
* [15:30] Marigold Devin: Some ranting is pointless. Discussion and debate is ok, but ranting is generally counter-productive (as you know)
* [15:30] Kallista Destiny: What you're going to be missing is the synergy of having multiple people , with the same problem and different insights feeding back..on it.
* [15:30] Gooden Uggla: wow, that may be one of the dumbest things Linden has ever done. No collabrative testing results, everything has to be on a separate jira
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: I can see it :-p
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: "* [15:30] Oskar Linden: voting on jiras never held any relevance internally" that is sad:(
* [15:30] Pagan Sunburn: Hmmm.....onion routing......
* [15:30] Nalates Urriah: :P
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: Ah, but if they get a bug report for the same issue over and over again, maybe that'll work better than having one JIRA with tons of comments, some of which are irrelevant anyway
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: Swings nd roundabouts
* [15:31] Kallista Destiny: Well watching used to be important
* [15:31] Jenna Felton: Nalates, "Permission Violation" on the jira page for me
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: Rex, what I mean is that it wasn't used to determine what needed to be fixed
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: But I did like to have the watch feature to be kept up to date on progress of things
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: like long term SVC-472
* [15:31] Flame of Jira: Status 499
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: a bug filing system shouldn't be a popularity contest
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: oh. ok
* [15:31] MartinRJ Fayray: As a scripter I want to show commissioners acknowledged bugs on jira.secondlife.com, so that I can prove that it's not my fault.
* [15:31] Marigold Devin: (region crossings fail)
* [15:31] Nalates Urriah: I have another in PATHBUG: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-190
* [15:31] Flame of Jira: [#PATHBUG-190] Beta & Dev Viewers cannot render PF Characters https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/PATHBUG-190
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: so basically, instead of one jira, someone at the lab will have to ignore 20 Jiras...
* [15:32] Marigold Devin: I don't think they do get ignored.
* [15:32] arton Rotaru: thats visible Nal
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: so there is a survery
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: http://lindensurvey.force.com/support/JIRASurvey
* [15:32] NeoBokrug Elytis: i hate to say it, but I am not going to file jiras even if there's a chance someone else already had. I already invested quite a bit of time researching and testing other bugs that mattered to me, and it seems like duplicating the efforts of other reports is a waste of time. If I could at least see that it exists as a bug, I would be more inclined to report bugs that aren't existing.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: I would appreciate everyone putting their opinions in there
* [15:32] Marigold Devin: It's arrogant of us mere residents to assume what goes on backstage
* [15:32] NeoBokrug Elytis: And EXACTLY what MartinRJ said.
* [15:32] Kallista Destiny: and there are JIRAS that are used for testing , the Mesh deformet comes to mind..
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: you all have good opinions and I'm not disagreeing with them
* [15:32] Pagan Sunburn: They don't get ignored, just given different priority levels.
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: my biggest concern is that these changes will offer a hindrance to those of you who help me out so much
* [15:33] Marigold Devin: But we're just residents, so if everyone just kept quiet and didn't report any JIRAs at all, what would happen?
* [15:33] Theresa Tennyson: Chah...
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: I need to figure out a way to keep you helping
* [15:33] Pagan Sunburn: File a JIRA and say there is a sim down and that is top priority. It will be up in about 5 minutes.
* [15:33] NeoBokrug Elytis: Also, you cannot submit a JIRA for a new feature.
* [15:33] Rex Cronon: i have to say that i, as Martinrj said want to be able to point angry customers to jira is scripts stopped working
* [15:33] Nalates Urriah: Later today I'll have an article on the change. I blame it all on Oskar... (teasing)
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: that's a good point rex
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: I am sure you will say nice things Nalates and not quote me out of context
* [15:34] Marigold Devin: haha
* [15:34] Marigold Devin: Why do we need personal blogs; all of this stuff Linden related should be available at a central point, ie the blogs
* [15:35] Marigold Devin: Oskar, are you going to update the transcripts too please?
* [15:35] arton Rotaru: who should we blame for such an unfrindly decision
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: so given this 'new jira world' and given the role I play in QA at LL and the roles you play in eager helpful residents we need to figure out a way to continue improving things
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: if you feel that is impossible in the new system then I need to know
* [15:35] arton Rotaru: it is really bad
* [15:35] Marigold Devin: Oskar, I love you, and appreciate all you and the team do, and will continue to send you all the daft little details that I think might be a problem, even if it's a load of crud.
* [15:35] arton Rotaru: lets say some has a problem and asks in a group
* [15:35] Rex Cronon: right. not transcript available for the last 2 weeks or more
* [15:35] Marigold Devin: And you can delete where applicable as always
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: so let's work with the new Jira for a few weeks and feel it out
* [15:35] Nalates Urriah: I do try to keep it in context. I am not at all sure this JIRA change is a good thing. But, I'm all for making things better and I understand the Lindens not wanting to have to deal with the abusive rants I've seen.
* [15:36] arton Rotaru: we can easily point them to a existing jira
* [15:36] Marigold Devin: Aye, too many abusive rants.
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: that's a good point arton
* [15:36] arton Rotaru: with tipps an workarounds in it perhaps
* [15:36] arton Rotaru: it's really a bad decision for builders
* [15:37] Gooden Uggla: good point, we can all create new Jiras that point to the old jiras
* [15:37] Marigold Devin: Actually, it will work better for me not to have to point people to existing JIRAs. If we feel it's a bug that needs reporting, can just send people off to the JIRAs to make out their own brand new shiny JIRA.
* [15:37] Marigold Devin: Seems better really.
* [15:37] Pagan Sunburn: But now no one else can see the existing jira and filing new ones o the same topic doe s let the lab know how many are experiencing the problem and based on teh details and number of residents reporting, they can determine the priority level and get to it as quickly as possible.
* [15:37] Rex Cronon: people usually post workarounds for thing that don't work, in the comments sections for jiras
* [15:37] Marigold Devin: I'd prefer only to see the shiny side anyway, not all the clutter
* [15:37] arton Rotaru: not erveryone is good at reporting a tech issue in a foreign language
* [15:37] Kallista Destiny: How ever is going to have to spend a lot i=of time sorting out dups.
* [15:37] NeoBokrug Elytis: Casual users will probably not do that Marigold. :( They'll still blame you, then nuke your marketplace lisgin.
* [15:37] NeoBokrug Elytis: me am tipe gud
* [15:38] arton Rotaru: so if it's there already, those can find out whats going on more easy
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: there will be more work for us in triages
* [15:38] Marigold Devin: Kallista - not our problem :-))
* [15:38] Marigold Devin: Arton, I guess the foreign speakers have the same problem on other 'gaming' websites etc too
* [15:38] Kallista Destiny: Yes becasue that means that people will be slower at getting to our problems.
* [15:38] Marigold Devin: Lucky for me, NeoBokrug, I have nothing to nuke
* [15:38] Marigold Devin: Only my reputation ^^
* [15:38] arton Rotaru: we are talking SL now right?
* [15:38] Kallista Destiny: Yes
* [15:39] Rex Cronon: sl not exactly a gamming site
* [15:39] Marigold Devin: that's why I said 'gaming' in inverteds
* [15:39] Nalates Urriah: The big problem I see is for issues like the ADITI inventory problems we had when changing passwords. It seemed having people contributing to the thread did alot to contribute to figuring out work arounds. People are still having problems and the fix from the JIRA thread seems to be to keep changing passwords until it clicks. As the new JIRA is we will never figure that out.
* [15:39] Pagan Sunburn: Reminds me of the old "worked fine in dev, ops problem now"
* [15:39] Kallista Destiny: Some one wants to make it one.
* [15:39] Marigold Devin: Arton was saying that JIRAs are a problem for non-English speakers to be filling out
* [15:39] arton Rotaru: yes
* [15:39] Marigold Devin: But nothing changes with old JIRA or new JIRA in this regard
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: Kallista, you hit it on the head, they'll say "we're getting to it as fast as we can under this deluge of Jiras" as an excuse
* [15:40] arton Rotaru: but if everyone can see existing issues, it helps them
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: And I was just pointing out that non-English speakers have the same problem on every bug reporting place, whatever the 'game' or platform
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: Ah, I see, arton. Maybe.
* [15:40] Kallista Destiny: I donlt think they're looking for escuses, it's just that there WILL be snowed under
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: The JIRAs were clusterf4ckery to navigate anyway as they were
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: *nods* possibly intentionally
* [15:40] Marigold Devin: Trying to find anything by using the search box, and then looking by 'latest date' order
* [15:41] Theresa Tennyson: There are certain sudden widespread JIRA's where you need all the eyes you can on them.
* [15:41] arton Rotaru: I foundd lots of usefull info in jiras
* [15:41] Marigold Devin: I don't know about intentionally. Maybe LL people just aren't anal about how tidy their shelves are.
* [15:41] Marigold Devin: I think it will be swings and roundabouts.
* [15:41] Theresa Tennyson: SVC-8124 was basically diagnosed by residents.
* [15:41] Flame of Jira: Status 499
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: as was SVC-8177 SVC-8178
* [15:42] Flame of Jira: Status 499
* [15:42] Flame of Jira: Status 499
* [15:42] Gooden Uggla: mah, this is just a way to obfuscate the lack of response
* [15:42] Jenna FeltonJenna Felton smiles at Flame of Jira not being ble to read too
* [15:42] Rex Cronon: so what happens if a group(lets say around 5000 users) decide to file a jira about a specific problem:)
* [15:43] Marigold Devin: Have Oskar and Maestro gone to the pub? Awful quiet you two. :-))
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: just taking it all in
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: yeah
* [15:43] Marigold Devin: Rex, they'll have more sh1te to trawl through. Their problem. They're the ones on the payroll.
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I have no official comment that isn't in the blog
* [15:43] Pagan Sunburn: Oskar is thinking of the ladies he is going to be with later, lol.
* [15:43] Rex Cronon: i don't think the lindens will have an easier time:)
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: but I do want to find a way to work with this system if this is the system we're going to have
* [15:43] NeoBokrug Elytis: Do you have any unofficial comments? :3
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I less than three all of you
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: <3
* [15:43] Kallista Destiny: He can't comment unofficially
* [15:44] Pagan Sunburn: <3
* [15:44] Jenna Felton: you have to follow Oscar to pub if you want hear 'unnofficial'comments Neo
* [15:44] NeoBokrug Elytis: I think being able to just view a jira will be super beneficial
* [15:44] Kallista Destiny: Cut the man some slack
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: heh
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: a resi followed me to the pub once
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: ONCE
* [15:44] Gooden Uggla: of course it's the system we're going to have, the Lab doesn't back down in the face of it's own stupidity, ever
* [15:44] NeoBokrug Elytis: That way we can know if it's reported, and if it has beem , we can file our own with additional findings
* [15:44] Marigold Devin: I'm sure it's happened loads, but some just admire from afar ;-)
* [15:44] Pagan Sunburn: *GIGGLES* :)__Oskar 14:48, 13 September 2012 (PDT)
* [15:44] Rex Cronon: u guys might get so many jiras that u will either drawn in them, or u will start deleting them without looking:(
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: resi says to the bartender "In the world I come from HE'S A GOD!!"
* [15:45] Theresa Tennyson: And there are people like Whirly who are tremendously helpful without being Lindens.
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: bartender blinks confusedly
* [15:45] Oskar LindenOskar Linden shrugs "to some people I am a GOD"
* [15:45] Marigold Devin: Oskar, you're a special guy. You really are.
* [15:45] Marigold Devin: One of a kind.
* [15:45] Pagan Sunburn: Probably got taken off by white coats.
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: there are a lot of people who are really helpful
* [15:45] Kallista Destiny: Searchability and cross linking would be a minimum
* [15:45] MartinRJ Fayray: heheh
* [15:45] Theresa Tennyson: We really appreciate the human contact from the Lab too.
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: and I want those people to continue to be helpful
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: because it does help
* [15:46] arton Rotaru: it helps alot
* [15:46] Marigold Devin: Tons, Theresa, tons, over many years too
* [15:46] Theresa Tennyson: ANNND there are whackadoodles.
* [15:46] Pagan Sunburn: And others just stalk
* [15:46] Gooden Uggla: rex, if a large group is effected by a bug (all large groups are, actually effected by 2 showstoppers) make up a tutorial on how to file Jiras and send notices out
* [15:46] Marigold Devin: Pagan, that's you and me baby ;-))
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: so my job now is to find out how to let the helpful people continune to be helpful in this new setup
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: i guess somebody could start their own site for sl jiras. call it "borksl.com' ;)
* [15:46] Marigold Devin: But I thinnk we're harmless
* [15:47] NeoBokrug Elytis: Can't use SL in the domain name. :D
* [15:47] Kallista Destiny: Give people who are known to be helpful permissions
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: there is already an inworld group called Bug Bashers
* [15:47] arton Rotaru: to share info on jiras
* [15:47] Theresa Tennyson: Do I understand that there are residents who have NDA's on file with Linden Lab?
* [15:47] Kallista Destiny: Duplication of effort
* [15:47] Gooden Uggla: good luck Oskar, they've tied your hands pretty good this time
* [15:47] Marigold Devin: What are NDAs?
* [15:48] Theresa Tennyson: Non-Disclosure Agreements.
* [15:48] NeoBokrug Elytis: Non-Disclosure agreements
* [15:48] Kallista Destiny: Non Disclosure Agreements
* [15:48] Marigold Devin: That's what I've learned today.
* [15:48] Theresa Tennyson: We have lots of sekrets in America.
* [15:48] Rex Cronon: is like talking about the fight club:)
* [15:48] Marigold Devin: I signed the official secrets act when I worked for the Government in UK in 1980. In triplicate. I can divulge all I know now, because the time has expired.
* [15:48] Theresa Tennyson: In Britain everyone lives too close together to have sekrits.
* [15:48] Nalates Urriah: I've been asked to sign NDA's on a couple of occassions. Those beta testers working the Experience Tools were asked to sign NDA's.
* [15:48] Kallista Destiny: Which many of use, I;m sure, have signed. Even with Corporations that are TLA.
* [15:49] Marigold Devin: Are you shure, Theresa, your next door neighbour might have a body in their basement
* [15:49] Kallista Destiny: Three Letter Acronyms
* [15:49] NeoBokrug Elytis: TLAs
* [15:49] Rex Cronon: lol
* [15:49] arton Rotaru: BAWs^^
* [15:49] Jenna Felton: I think best way is not to hide the bug description, so people can find existing bugs, and than make able people go build groups so members of the group can read the rest of the posts, and also comment to the jira post
* [15:49] Marigold Devin: And how often do the special people break their NDAs?
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: not sure
* [15:50] Marigold Devin: Good answer!
* [15:50] arton Rotaru: who cares?
* [15:50] Kallista Destiny: Have to ask Legal
* [15:50] Marigold Devin: Well, people would have to tickle my feet before I'd divulge anything about anything.
* [15:50] Rex Cronon: if u move to nigeria it might be quite save to break your NDA:)
* [15:51] Rex Cronon: quite safe*
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: lol
* [15:51] Kallista DestinyKallista Destiny sneds for the land sharks
* [15:51] Jenna Felton: dont offer people tikle you Marigold :) some could follow
* [15:51] Marigold Devin: Invalid passport. Stuck in UK for now.
* [15:51] Kallista Destiny: 499
* [15:51] Marigold Devin: haha, Jenna. Yess Dangerous talk
* [15:51] Gooden Uggla: Belize is closer... and safer
* [15:51] Pagan Sunburn: I could probably reach up and tickles Oskar's hoof from here.
* [15:51] Oskar LindenOskar Linden reads up about marigold's secret clearance
* [15:51] Jenna Felton: hehe
* [15:52] Oskar LindenOskar Linden finally realizes that Marigold Devin is Margaret Thatcher
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: o.O
* [15:52] Marigold Devin: Ooooooo now that's nasty.
* [15:52] arton Rotaru: so I ahve to check the radio button at the bottom of the survey :p
* [15:52] Marigold Devin: You could have found a nicer way to get me to hate you Oskar Linden.
* [15:52] Marigold Devin: And my mother will also haunt you to your death now.
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: because I gave your secret away?
* [15:52] Kallista Destiny: OOOHH code word access.
* [15:53] Gooden Uggla: *smiles*
* [15:53] Marigold Devin: So either Oskar talks bollocks, or can't keep secrets
* [15:53] Marigold Devin: Hmm
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: sad to say but it looks like this time jira has indeed beed "fixed" for good:(
* [15:53] Marigold Devin: And if you can say Thatcher, I can say bollocks.
* [15:53] Pagan Sunburn: Tug on Oskar's beard and he will talk, lol.
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: indeed been*
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: then you must be Baroness Janet Mary Young?
* [15:53] NeoBokrug Elytis: Can we file a JIRA about the JIRA?
* [15:53] Marigold Devin: I shall glue Oskar's beard to his head next time I see him
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: haha
* [15:53] Pagan Sunburn: *GIGGLES* :)__Oskar 14:48, 13 September 2012 (PDT)
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: what other females worked in UK government in the 80's?
* [15:54] Marigold Devin: Shirley someone or other
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: well now you've gotten me off topic
* [15:54] Pagan Sunburn: Just tug on it and wave a pair of scissors.
* [15:54] Jenna Felton: first fill the survey, than fill jira against jira posts:)
* [15:54] Marigold Devin: but very few
* [15:54] Marigold Devin: You got you off topic
* [15:54] Gooden Uggla: ok, in order to test the new Jira, i filed a jira saying that there's a bug in the Jira...
* [15:55] Marigold Devin: I would be more likely Madam Speaker "Order Order" ;-))
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: might be marked as a duplicte Gooden ^^
* [15:55] Jenna Felton: I got a very large feature request, which is stil in process of removing typos. Now i wonder how perople would discuss it if i put it in Jira
* [15:56] Marigold Devin: Try it Jenna
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: so I'm still working with the QA team to sort through how we can continue to be effective with this new system. I say we try it for a few weeks and I'll see how I can make it work better
* [15:56] Rex Cronon: "should make it easier for all of us" really? oh boy.
* [15:56] Jenna Felton: first remove typos, than .)
* [15:56] Jenna Felton: good idea Oskar
* [15:56] Pagan Sunburn: Who proof reads these things?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: not QA
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: i r kin tapi gud
* [15:57] Pagan Sunburn: Oskar, you're just a nut.
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: I don't know that feature reqeusts ever really did anything in jira
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: discussing new features in the forums is probably a better idea
* [15:57] Marigold Devin: Are you allowed to say that, Oskar?
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: we can see which topics get hotly discussed
* [15:58] Kallista Destiny: The Forums are caotic, to say the least.
* [15:58] NeoBokrug Elytis: Do SL devs view the forums though? Will the feature propositions get the attention they need?
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: so was jira
* [15:58] Theresa Tennyson: It would really help if we knew what issues we should be on the lookout for with a server RC release.
* [15:58] arton Rotaru: in froums there will be even more "noise"
* [15:58] Marigold Devin: They're hilarious and boring in equal measure
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: forums sometimes tend to be the scene for drama queens
* [15:58] Gooden Uggla: until you just said that, we werte told to put feature requests in the Jira, you should probably67 edit that out
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: features getting to devs doesn't do anything either
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: features need to get to the project leads
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: if project leads read the forums or not I don't know
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: I would prefer reading the jiras
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: well now put feature requests into the forums I guess
* [15:59] Pagan Sunburn: So either way it is a gamble.
* [15:59] arton Rotaru: as a project lead
* [15:59] NeoBokrug Elytis: My new feature request will be that project leads read the forums.
* [15:59] Marigold Devin: What did we all sign up for originally when we joined Second Life?
* [15:59] Theresa Tennyson: It's also possible to talk with the server people pretty well, and with Oz, but the viewer people? Not so much.
* [16:00] Jenna FeltonJenna Felton never seen a structure in forum, jira was better divided in procjects like viewer, scripting, servers and so on, making it easier to find where to put a fearure request...
* [16:00] Kallista Destiny: That is another question, Are project leads ever in world? Do they even know what the product is?
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: yes