Open Source Meeting/2009-09-17

[14:00]	Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/LindenWorld%20D/196/239/29 	Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/LindenWorld%20D/196/239/29
[14:00]	The region you have entered is running a different simulator version. Click this message for details. 	The region you have entered is running a different simulator version. Click this message for details.
[14:00]	Questar Utu: 	xD
[14:00]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Also, I think you need to re-bake Squirrel. :o
[14:01]	Twisted Laws: 	oks
[14:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Gah - maybe I should show up in a squirrel too?
[14:01]	Questar Utu thinks so too, as I see false clothes as well. 	Questar Utu thinks so too, as I see false clothes as well.
[14:01]	Questar Utu: 	Rather, black sections.
[14:01]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.987759s detected (LSO)
[14:01]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.705052s detected (Mono)
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Check who TPs in, so we correlate with freezes
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That was Merov
[14:01]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Heh.
[14:01]	Rob Linden: 	hi folks
[14:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Hey Rob.
[14:02]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hi Rob :)
[14:02]	Questar Utu waves. 	Questar Utu waves.
[14:02]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hi Rob, Merov!
[14:02]	Merov Linden: 	Hi guys
[14:02]	Melinda Latynina: 	hello rob
[14:02]	Twisted Laws: 	Hi Rob
[14:02]	Economic Core: 	Howdy rob
[14:02]	Melinda Latynina: 	merov
[14:02]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.751599s detected (Mono)
[14:02]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.751599s detected (LSO)
[14:02]	Questar Utu: 	'lo Merov. :o
[14:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	And Merov. :o
[14:02]	Twisted Laws: 	Hi Merov
[14:02]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hi Merov :)
[14:02]	Questar Utu: 	Interesting how this bench got the most people. o.o
[14:03]	Merov Linden: 	Hello hello
[14:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Always does.
[14:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh maybe zone fixed itself, Merov sat normally
[14:03]	Questar Utu: 	Heh.
[14:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I thought this was the furry corner.
[14:03]	Economic Core: 	Anyone know a way to sneak a non-lldrawable into the pipeline? I've added some new volumetric clouds that render but cause the pipeline to scram about them not being drawable
[14:03]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	xD
[14:03]	Questar Utu: 	xD
[14:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Nope, sitting still dead
[14:03]	Mojito Sorbet: 	People are just drawn to a seating area named "AF_SA_entertxx"
[14:03]	Rob Linden: 	I think the agenda is an old agenda, but I also think it works for this week too: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:03]	Merov Linden confess ignorance in LSL matters 	Merov Linden confess ignorance in LSL matters
[14:04]	Mojito Sorbet: 	"Arena seating" would be so much easier to find when using a text viewer. :)
[14:04]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.754544s detected (Mono)
[14:04]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.733191s detected (LSO)
[14:04]	Rob Linden: 	let's get started. first up: # [c] - OGP patch
[14:04]	Rob Linden: 	
[14:04]	Merov Linden: 	Committed!!
[14:04]	Pixel Gausman does a happy dance 	Pixel Gausman does a happy dance
[14:04]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Woohoo!
[14:04]	Aimee Trescothick: 	woohoo :)
[14:05]	Pixel Gausman: 	Thanks, Merov!
[14:05]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Seems the helper was shot?
[14:05]	Melinda Latynina: 	:-)
[14:05]	Merov Linden: 	svn r2771
[14:05]	Questar Utu: 	Hopefully not literally.
[14:05]	Morgaine Dinova grabs an update 	Morgaine Dinova grabs an update
[14:05]	Rob Linden: 	uh oh...that may be the build failure
[14:05]	Merov Linden: 	what?
[14:05]	Aimee Trescothick: 	uh oh
[14:05]	Merov Linden agonizes... 	Merov Linden agonizes...
[14:05]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	I've been using it for a few days now (non-OGP), seems good
[14:05]	Pixel Gausman: 	oh nos
[14:05]	Rob Linden: 	I was just starting to look at that a sec ago
[14:05]	Rob Linden: 	on Linux
[14:05]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.975438s detected (Mono)
[14:05]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.975438s detected (LSO)
[14:05]	Meggan Faith: 	Might be interesting to add llGetRegionAgentCount to the freeze testing script.
[14:06]	Pixel Gausman: 	another mResult LLSD gcc peskiness
[14:06]	Pixel Gausman: 	?
[14:06]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.750740s detected (LSO)
[14:06]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.755305s detected (Mono)
[14:06]	Merov Linden tries to check Parabuild while keeping an eye here 	Merov Linden tries to check Parabuild while keeping an eye here
[14:06]	Questar Utu blinks. 	Questar Utu blinks.
[14:06]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi wonders why this area's sits seem to be breaking. 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi wonders why this area's sits seem to be breaking.
[14:06]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	GCC is getting really strict about sloppy code. Been seeing more and more warnings. :-)
[14:06]	Questar Utu pokes Tech's feet. O.o 	Questar Utu pokes Tech's feet. O.o
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	oh....wait a sec....I don't think the problem is with
[14:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Someone TP'd in but no freezes?
[14:07]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Yea..I have no idea why I raised 3m.
[14:07]	Pixel Gausman: 	Tech: wish I could get visual studio to match gcc for pickiness
[14:07]	Rob Linden: 	looks like llfasttimer.cpp might be the culprit
[14:07]	Questar Utu: 	Haha.
[14:07]	Pixel Gausman: 	i didnt touch that file
[14:07]	Questar Utu: 	Oi! It's worse from this side. D:
[14:07]	Questar Utu: 	I thought they were just touching my wings. x.o
[14:08]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	This is the new 1.30 server code.
[14:08]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.709499s detected (Mono)
[14:08]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.709499s detected (LSO)
[14:08]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 3.008360s detected (LSO)
[14:08]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 3.102079s detected (Mono)
[14:08]	Questar Utu: 	Hm.. o.o
[14:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Uh oh
[14:08]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	erff...I mean I came from a 1.30 server
[14:08]	Pixel Gausman: 	https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev-commits/2009-September/003210.html
[14:08]	Questar Utu: 	Ah.
[14:08]	Pixel Gausman: 	so it is probably that change to fasttimer?
[14:08]	Rob Linden: 	that would seem to be the case. I don't recall if we ran a build since the fasttimer change was checked in
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 7.005022s detected (Mono)
[14:09]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I need to add a jira about the continues wind sound even when sitting ont he ground.
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 7.112836s detected (LSO)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.827090s detected (Mono)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.742587s detected (LSO)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.575914s detected (Mono)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 0.587293s detected (LSO)
[14:09]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hmm, surprising that that would cause a failure on linux coming via Robin
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 3.375699s detected (Mono)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 3.356541s detected (LSO)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 1.086891s detected (LSO)
[14:09]	Panel 3: 	Freeze of 1.040792s detected (Mono)
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius: 	Whats the issue?
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius: 	i was late
[14:09]	Rob Linden: 	llfasttimer.cpp:70: warning: converting to 'U64' from 'double'
[14:09]	Aimee Trescothick: 	oh hey Robin, didn't see you :)
[14:09]	Rob Linden: 	(and warnings treated as errors)
[14:09]	Robin Cornelius: 	what gcc version tripped that?
[14:10]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Techwolf: your latest snowglobe-trunk fails on fast timers patch: * Applying -fixfasttimers.diff ...
???
 	* Failed Patch: -fixfasttimers.diff ! 	* Failed Patch: -fixfasttimers.diff !
 	* ( /top/local/portage/layman/techwolf/games-simulation/snowglobe-trunk/files/-fixfasttimers.diff ) 	* ( /top/local/portage/layman/techwolf/games-simulation/snowglobe-trunk/files/-fixfasttimers.diff )
 	[#SNOW-108] Fast timers fail on non i386 systems 	[#SNOW-108] Fast timers fail on non i386 systems
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	it's whatever gcc is on etch....lemme look
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Expected. I need to push out an update. Been LOTS of changes.
[14:10]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Coolness
[14:10]	Rob Linden: 	expected?
[14:11]	Robin Cornelius: 	hmm i tested on lenny i386 LL style build and on my sid 64 bit standalone
[14:11]	Evil Titler: 	Melinda Latynina needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /16. Melinda is not able to change it.
[14:11]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Responding to Morgaine. That an old patch that has not been pulled yet.
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	gcc 4.1.2
[14:12]	Evil Titler: 	Economic Core has set a new title for Melinda Latynina! Melinda will have to live with this until the next chance for it to be changed.
[14:12]	Rob Linden: 	2766 was our last successful build
[14:13]	Merov Linden sighs... yes, llfasttimer.cpp compile error... 	Merov Linden sighs... yes, llfasttimer.cpp compile error...
[14:13]	Robin Cornelius: 	well it certainly looks like an explict cast is needed
[14:13]	Robin Cornelius: 	now why did i not see this on any of my build tests?
[14:14]	Merov Linden: 	mysteries of build machinery....
[14:14]	Rob Linden: 	yeah, don't sweat it....it happens
[14:14]	Morgaine Dinova hands Robin the magic rabbit foot 	Morgaine Dinova hands Robin the magic rabbit foot
[14:14]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	it built fine for me too, (GCC 4.3, non-standalone)
[14:14]	Merov Linden: 	we (I) really should be more hardcore starting builds when a commit is done
[14:15]	Merov Linden: 	it's silly to capture that late after the commit
[14:15]	Merov Linden thinks he knows what he's going to be working on this afternoon... 	Merov Linden thinks he knows what he's going to be working on this afternoon...
[14:15]	Rob Linden: 	feel free to ping llmerov or myself on irc after a commit
[14:15]	Mojito Sorbet: 	You don't do a build automatically every night???
[14:15]	Mojito Sorbet: 	(That's what we do where I work)
[14:15]	Merov Linden: 	not on Snowglobe
[14:15]	Robin Cornelius: 	looks like an older gcc bug where gcc can't tell the difference between 1e6 and 1.0e6 and is treating 1e6 as a double
[14:16]	Morgaine Dinova accepts some blame for not trying the patch, and passes the blame tray to the next person ;-)	Morgaine Dinova accepts some blame for not trying the patch, and passes the blame tray to the next person ;-)
[14:16]	Twisted Laws: 	that compiled fine on windows, btw
[14:16]	Rob Linden: 	Robin: ah...that explains it
[14:16]	Robin Cornelius: 	i propose either a cast or changing 1e6 to 1000000 and 1e9 to 1000000000 but i can't see that many zeros which is why i prefere the exponent notation
[14:16]	Rob Linden: 	Robin, maybe 1000000000 //1e6
[14:17]	Rob Linden: 	er 1e9
[14:17]	Rob Linden: 	heh....sorta not dry compliant now, is it
[14:17]	Robin Cornelius: 	well if we are adding a comment, then probably better to mention microseconds and nano sceconds netx to the constants
[14:17]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	If its a gcc bug wierdness, if fix, please put a short //comment as to why not 1e6.
[14:18]	Merov Linden: 	+1 in commenting what looks like odd magic numbers
[14:18]	Robin Cornelius: 	oh it already sais nano and micro ;-p
[14:18]	Robin Cornelius: 	says
[14:20]	Rob Linden: 	I'm really impressed you narrowed it down to a gcc 4.1.2 bug in the course of our brief discussion
[14:21]	Rob Linden: 	anyway....first thing after our meeting, we should figure out the fix we want to apply and get it applied.
[14:21]	Robin Cornelius: 	i dont have experimental evidence, but thats a logical conclusion as its only effecting a specific older gcc and its casting nonsense
[14:22]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And give Groupies a quick knock when it's in pls :-)
[14:22]	Merov Linden: 	Morgaine: I was planning to email sldev when the builds would have all gone through
[14:22]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Neat
[14:23]	Merov Linden: 	I suppose Groupies will pick it from there
[14:23]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah
[14:23]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Hmm...I think broke . Need to dig into it more.
 	[#SNOW-129] Select account from list at login 	[#SNOW-129] Select account from list at login
[14:23]	Rob Linden: 	any more we need to talk about on ? sounds like we're well on our way there
[14:23]	Pixel Gausman: 	i did have one question
[14:23]	Rob Linden: 	Pixel: yes?
[14:24]	Merov Linden: 	129 has not been committed, did it?
[14:24]	Pixel Gausman: 	if i have a big large change that i want to do, but want to get some input and knowledge from developers, what is the best venue for that?
[14:24]	Pixel Gausman: 	if i want to talk it over
[14:24]	Pixel Gausman: 	here?
[14:24]	Morgaine Dinova: 	"big large" :-)
[14:24]	Pixel Gausman: 	or irc?
[14:25]	Pixel Gausman: 	or sldev?
[14:25]	Rob Linden: 	sldev is the widest audience
[14:25]	Merov Linden: 	PJIRA and sldev
[14:25]	Merov Linden: 	we tend to go deeper in specific implementation on PJIRA
[14:25]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	It looks like the patch needs updateing to work on current trunk.
[14:25]	Merov Linden: 	so not to bore to death the wider audience on sldev
[14:25]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	There only about 4 hunks failures.
[14:26]	Pixel Gausman: 	Merov: i'll probably do a PJIRA
[14:26]	Merov Linden: 	Ah! That's likely Techwolf
[14:26]	Pixel Gausman: 	thx
[14:26]	Merov Linden: 	Pixel: cool! :)
[14:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hmm... what if I have a small tiny change?
[14:26]	Rob Linden: 	so, the full process is: post something to JIRA, then call everyone's attention to it on sldev. for real-time feedback after that, either/both of IRC or this meeting work. Pieces of the process can be trimmed for smaller thigns
[14:26]	Pixel Gausman: 	teaser: i want to rework how caps are done.
[14:27]	Merov Linden: 	yahuza!
[14:27]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Talk of large changes ... pity that the OGP functionality wasn't done as a protocol plugin (not the media type, just a regular one like gstreamer)
[14:27]	Pixel Gausman: 	:)
[14:27]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I'll work on it later and post an updated patch to . I use that patch on my main viewer. Very usfull not to have to type in username/pass when I go hopping around.
[14:27]	Rob Linden: 	Pixel: rework the wire protocol, or the implementation, or both?
[14:27]	Pixel Gausman: 	Rob: just the implementation
[14:28]	Pixel Gausman: 	for OGP
[14:28]	Pixel Gausman: 	we have to gradually move UDP to HTTP, and i'm trying to figure out how to do that gracefully
[14:28]	Rob Linden: 	ok...that sounds less controversial
[14:29]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Is there any reason why the login list got pushed back over the OGP patch?
[14:29]	Rob Linden: 	that's definitely something to raise on sldev, then. if you don't have anything concrete enough yet to put into JIRA, that's probably ok so long as you get something there before you actually start throwing patches around
[14:29]	Merov Linden: 	I don't understand your question Techwolf
[14:30]	Pixel Gausman: 	oh i'm quite a while away from slinging patches
[14:30]	Merov Linden: 	"pushed back over", you mean, "will be done after"?
[14:31]	Pixel Gausman: 	i guess i shy away from sldev, such a large audience, and such a fiesty one
[14:31]	Morgaine Dinova: 	If you start by making a protocol-independent layer and refactor the legacy protocol code to use it, then adding a second protocol could be done relatively painlessly, and you end up with a nicely refactored viewer.
[14:31]	Rob Linden: 	Techwolf, I think it was just a timing thing. Cypren didn't nag at the right time....he might have been able to sneak it in before if he had
[14:32]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	Pixel, I'm seeing some occurances in the log of "fetchDescendents: agent/inventory not on AD, checking fallback to region", is that expected on Agni?
[14:32]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Thanks Rob for the answer.
[14:33]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	the test plan said no mention of OGP should be visible when not in OGP mode...
[14:33]	Pixel Gausman: 	Morgaine: i'm not sure the community would go for something that drastically made changes to the main path (UDP) used in snowglobe, i need to make my changes work around it
[14:33]	Melinda Latynina: 	he did follow protocol, didn't he?
[14:33]	Rob Linden: 	Pixel...would you be interested in helping get in?
[14:33]	Merov Linden: 	Thickbrick: I saw that Pixel's patch did uncomment some LL_INFOS that are general. I left them uncommented.
[14:33]	Rob Linden: 	Melinda: yes, but it's also about finding a dev with commit access with the time and inclination to push it in.
[14:34]	Pixel Gausman: 	Thick: i think that used to say WebFetchInventoryDescendents, but yes, i think i did used to get that on Agni (not 100% sure)
[14:34]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Merov, I was asking how OGP got in faster then 129. But as rob said, timing issue. I happy with that aswer.
[14:34]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	ok, nvm
[14:34]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Pixel: yeah, I understand the problem. But if people aren't willing to bite the bullet on refactoring, the viewer will always be a monolithic mess. I know it's painful, but the point of introduction of OGP code would have been an ideal point in time to refactor the UDP code into a legacy protocol layer.
[14:34]	Pixel Gausman looks at 	Pixel Gausman looks at
[14:36]	Techwolf Lupindo drops a pin... 	Techwolf Lupindo drops a pin...
[14:36]	Merov Linden hears it 	Merov Linden hears it
[14:36]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi sneezes. 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi sneezes.
[14:36]	Thickbrick Sleaford watches the pin frozen in mid fall 	Thickbrick Sleaford watches the pin frozen in mid fall
[14:36]	Pixel Gausman: 	maybe i could help review 129, but i might have wanted it done differently
[14:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That account selection code doesn't seem to work too well. I've sent the wrong password to the wrong place on various occasions.
[14:36]	Questar Utu blinks. o.o 	Questar Utu blinks. o.o
[14:36]	Geneko Nemeth squeeks! 	Geneko Nemeth squeeks!
[14:36]	Melinda Latynina: 	i reviewed the patch and liked it
[14:37]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	That's...more of a OMG SPIKE thatn a pin.
[14:37]	Aimee Trescothick picksTech's pin up and hands it back 	Aimee Trescothick picksTech's pin up and hands it back
[14:37]	Techwolf Lupindo smiels 	Techwolf Lupindo smiels
[14:37]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	than a*
[14:37]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi yawns and curses his tiredness. 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi yawns and curses his tiredness.
[14:37]	Rob Linden: 	Pixel....that's fair enough.
[14:37]	Questar Utu: 	.. Eep.
[14:38]	Questar Utu: 	xD
[14:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	The patch might be nice, but not sure if the functionality is safe enough. With so many grids around, it's all too easy to send your valued password somewhere you might trus all that much.
[14:38]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	o.o
[14:38]	Pixel Gausman: 	(and my focus will be OGP...and any other shiny metal objects i get distracted by )
[14:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	somewhere you might NOT trust all that much*
[14:38]	Rob Linden: 	Pixel: can you offer some feedback on ? Cypren has been really helpful on a couple of other things, so I suspect you could barter some work there
[14:38]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Does the OGP patch allows more then one account on login screen to choose from? ( I havn't tried it yet)
[14:38]	Melinda Latynina: 	u don't need to have it remember your passwords if u don't want but allowing it to do so actually gives u some assurance u won't send the wrong one
[14:39]	Pixel Gausman: 	Rob: ok, i can do that.
[14:39]	Rob Linden: 	thanks!
[14:39]	Pixel Gausman: 	Tech: the OGP login does not do grid specific user name/password
[14:39]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	Morgaine: I think the password+username are unique for each grid in that patch
[14:39]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Morgaine, I think Cyprin inprove the patch to prevent just that. Sending pass to another grid.
[14:40]	Pixel Gausman: 	because the way OGP works, you have one agent domain that you authenticate with, and then you pop from region to region to grid to grid
[14:40]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I'll check. Not sure exactly what's been happening, but I've noticed login failures, and they're usually a sign that the wrong password was sent.
[14:40]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I've used it. I get presented two lines for the one account I use on here and the beta grid.
[14:40]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	or rather: the password is unique for each username+grid cimbination
[14:40]	Rob Linden: 	a related issue on the login front. one feature Philip is really anxious to see implemented is an autologin feature which would work somewhat like most instant messaging clients work today
[14:41]	Rob Linden: 	I'm pretty sure there's something in JIRA about it, but I don't remember the issue number off the top of my head
[14:41]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Like most instant messaging clients?
[14:41]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	What's the difference?
[14:41]	Melinda Latynina: 	i think we should focus on one issue at a time
[14:41]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	there's a command line option for that already
[14:42]	Rob Linden looks 	Rob Linden looks
[14:42]	Merov Linden doesn't recall a SNOW record for this autologin feature 	Merov Linden doesn't recall a SNOW record for this autologin feature
[14:42]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Tech: yeah, I remember Cyprin's answer in Jira. I guess I'll have to check on an Opensim to monitor what's being sent.
[14:42]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	The command line option been there for forever, I use it month ago for some automated performace tests I was doing.
[14:42]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	months ago that is
[14:43]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	--autologin
[14:43]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Let me see...
[14:43]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Yeah, I thought there was an option to autologin from preferences.
[14:43]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Hm, not the standard viewer though.
[14:43]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi facepaws. 	Sahkolihaa Contepomi facepaws.
[14:43]	Melinda Latynina: 	IIRC it came up in discussion here, right? if so it should be in the transcripts
[14:44]	Rob Linden: 	as I recall, the idea was to tie that option to "remember my password", so that if you click remember my password, you automatically get autologin
[14:44]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	--login BTechwolf Foxclaw xxxxxxxxxxxxpasshere --grid Aditi
[14:45]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Btw, is the argument to --grid definitely just a grid name? I'm pretty sure that some open grids require a URL there too ... failed without it.
[14:45]	Rob Linden: 	anyway, since the command line switch is there, sounds pretty trivial to make it work
[14:45]	Merov Linden: 	IIRC, Philip's point was to make that really easily usable by anyone, not just people mastering the block art of command line
[14:45]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	Rob, that sounds too aggressive solution - one might want the password remebered, but not having to first log in and turn it off in order ot log in as an alt
[14:46]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	Yeah, I would.
[14:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I think there's also a command line switch that lets you use the saved username/password if you have one.
[14:46]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	I a login manager + a repf for autologin is better
[14:46]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	I prefer to be able to type in a specific sim if the one I was in just crashed.
[14:46]	Twisted Laws: 	add another checkbox there, msn has both checkboxes
[14:46]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	If one account, autologin is good. If detect more then one account, present easy to use list to select witch accoutn to login with.
[14:47]	Melinda Latynina: 	why are we discusing a possible new feature when there's an existing patch that's been vetted and patiently waiting for inclusion?
[14:47]	Thickbrick Sleaford nods 	Thickbrick Sleaford nods
[14:47]	Morgaine Dinova: 	In the case of multiple accounts, add another flag: -auto_login -use_last_account
[14:47]	Rob Linden: 	Melinda: which patch do you want to discuss?
[14:47]	Melinda Latynina: 	219
[14:48]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	129?
[14:48]	Melinda Latynina: 	sorry, yes
[14:48]	Melinda Latynina: 	it felt to me like it's being rehashed
[14:48]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/
[14:48]	JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-129] Select account from list at login 	JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-129] Select account from list at login
[14:48]	Rob Linden: 	the reason why I moved on is because: 1) it conflicts with the now committed
 	[#SNOW-215] OGP Interop login/teleport 	[#SNOW-215] OGP Interop login/teleport
[14:49]	Rob Linden: 	2) Cypren isn't here
[14:49]	Rob Linden: 	3) we have a plan of record (Pixel is going to comment)
[14:49]	Melinda Latynina: 	ok, so long as we don't try too redesign it here
[14:49]	Aimee Trescothick: 	heh, we'll end up reimplementing it from scratch for a 3rd time at this rate lol (Cypren's was the second)
[14:50]	Melinda Latynina: 	i already gave him a code review that resulted in his doing some rework already so i don't want him to feel jerked around
[14:51]	Rob Linden: 	understood. I'm bummed that the timing didn't pan out and that we ended up checking in a conflicting patch
[14:52]	Merov Linden: 	c'est la vie
[14:52]	Rob Linden: 	...but we are where we are...I suspect an OGP mob would decend on us if we backed out
[14:52]	Melinda Latynina: 	i'm not suggesting that
[14:53]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That creature of Pixel's looks violent. I wouldn't risk it.
[14:53]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	I think since ss a big patch, small usability changes are better done once it's in svn and everybody is working from the same codebase
[14:53]	Melinda Latynina: 	i'm only suggesting that we don't try to redesign the feature again but to judge whether it works as intended and if so, get it committed
[14:53]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	The OGP patch was even bigger...
[14:53]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I think.
[14:53]	Melinda Latynina: 	this was not a big patch IMO
[14:54]	Rob Linden: 	lemme be clear, I'm not suggesting that autologin be tied into this, but just suggesting that it's yet another thing we needed to look at while we were on the login subject
[14:54]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	depend on your perspective I guess...
[14:54]	Melinda Latynina: 	that's fine so long as it doesn't preempt progress on his patch
[14:54]	Rob Linden: 	ok
[14:54]	Morgaine Dinova: 	11s freeze, let's see who arrived
[14:55]	Galva Umaga: 	mask off
[14:55]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	129 is ~60Kb and 215 is 759Kb.
[14:55]	Rob Linden: 	we're down to the last 5 minutes, and haven't talked about the media merge or the translation patch
[14:56]	Merov Linden ducks... 	Merov Linden ducks...
[14:56]	Rob Linden: 	media merge is the next big thing on Merov's plate
[14:56]	Merov Linden: 	may be I can talk about
 	[#SNOW-222] Merge LLMedia Plugin API in SnowGlobe 	[#SNOW-222] Merge LLMedia Plugin API in SnowGlobe
[14:56]	Merov Linden: 	no, it has not been committed
[14:56]	Merov Linden: 	still early I think
[14:57]	Pixel Gausman agrees 	Pixel Gausman agrees
[14:57]	Merov Linden: 	I'd like to have someone qualifying it on Linux before
[14:57]	Rob Linden: 	may slide in there first....
 	[#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages 	[#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:57]	Merov Linden: 	but I made such a mess with the patch creation yesterday, I didn't help out sldev contributors that much
[14:57]	Merov Linden: 	apologies for this
[14:58]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Merov += cookie
[14:58]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	yea...I looked it over yesterday and got confused...
[14:58]	Aimee Trescothick: 	oh meant to add it to the agenda, but could someone do something about ?
 	[#SNOW-229] objects.xib is missing from CrashReporter.nib in the Mac crash logger 	[#SNOW-229] objects.xib is missing from CrashReporter.nib in the Mac crash logger
[14:58]	Pixel Gausman: 	i was able to build it
[14:58]	Merov Linden: 	I can say though that I do have an LLMedia enabled Snowglobe running on Windows and one on Mac
[14:58]	Merov Linden: 	so we're close :)
[14:58]	Tachikoma Body: 	Touched.
[14:58]	Rob Linden: 	Aimee: oh...right, I meant to ask you about that after the weekend ping
[14:59]	Rob Linden: 	we're getting Mac crash reports, so that's a little odd
[14:59]	Galva Umaga: 	mask on
[14:59]	Aimee Trescothick: 	strange
[14:59]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hmm
[14:59]	Pixel Gausman: 	Merov: are you going to be building a new patch that is easier to apply?
[14:59]	Merov Linden: 	Pixel: yes, that's my goal
[14:59]	Pixel Gausman: 	kewl
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Merov, +1
[14:59]	Merov Linden: 	I will make it applicable to the tip of trunk though
[15:00]	Pixel Gausman: 	even cooler
[15:00]	Merov Linden: 	the one containing OGP then and whatever we do to fix the build failure
[15:00]	Pixel Gausman's timer goes off. 	Pixel Gausman's timer goes off.
[15:00]	Pixel Gausman: 	time to run
[15:00]	Merov Linden: 	I'm expecting some collision again but, as I said before, c'est la vie
[15:02]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I feel somewhat bad for de-railing this office hour by bringing up a patch issue....
[15:02]	Rob Linden: 	okee doke. well, we are out of time. Aimee: keep bugging us about . I'd like to make sure we nail the buidl buster first, but that seems like a relatively easy thing to knock off
[15:02]	Aimee Trescothick: 	sure np
[15:02]	Sahkolihaa Contepomi: 	See you, Rob.
[15:02]	Rob Linden: 	Techwolf...no worries, it was a good topic to discuss
[15:02]	Rob Linden: 	thanks everyone for coming!
[15:02]	Robin Cornelius: 	that build fail with fasttimers is for sure gcc version dependnent 4.1 series fails
[15:02]	Merov Linden: 	thanks folks
[15:02]	Melinda Latynina: 	thx rob, merov
[15:02]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks Rob + Merov!
[15:02]	Aimee Trescothick: 	my concern was that we wouldn't be getting ANY crash logs from Mac, but, if there are some, I'm puzzled lol
[15:02]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I literlly foudn that conflict when I was doing a quick update for Morgaine.
[15:03]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	in the middel of OH that is. hehe
[15:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Awww, tnx Tech :-)
[15:04]	Rob Linden: 	see y'all on irc
[15:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford: 	see you
[15:04]	Morgaine Dinova waves 	Morgaine Dinova waves