Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-05-11

13:30 	Oz Linden  	hi all
  	Yuzuru  	Hello Oz.
  	Ima Mechanique  	hey Oz
  	The avatar formerly know as  	wades through the lag
  	Nicky Perian  	hi
13:31 	Oz Linden  	No new issues in OPEN
13:32 	  	Have I mentioned that both in STORM and in VWR there are pseudo-versions for Open Development Candidates ....
  	  	those are issues that would make good tasks for open devs to pick up
  	Ima Mechanique  	hmm, once or twice I think you might have ;-)
  	Oz Linden  	(we like them but are unlikely to be able to do them soon ourselves)
13:33 	  	I just came from triage.... we added a couple ... it was on my mine
  	  	mind
  	Yuzuru  	Was mesh build marged to devs?
  	Oz Linden  	not yet...
  	  	they have not resolved the render problems on Macs yet
  	The avatar formerly know as  	CMAKE stuff, are you guys doing some prep work for refactoring?
13:34 	Oz Linden  	Brad and a few others have been doing some things to try to make builds faster
  	  	other than that, there's no refactoring that I know of going on
  	The avatar formerly know as  	Is that the only goal? Not that making builds faster is not awesome enough.
13:35 	Oz Linden  	well, in the process I think they're finding things that are just cruft and getting rid of them, but build time is the primary motivator
  	  	Windows build time especially (it is by far the long pole)
  	The avatar formerly know as  	'Package' could go for a scrapping
13:36 	Oz Linden  	?
  	Ima Mechanique  	packaging is just a tad verbose
  	  	double-spaced output for example
13:37 	The avatar formerly know as  	The packaging stage actually takes about as long or longer than linking on my sys, that seems a little much to me.
  	Oz Linden  	I don't do that locally much, and tend to just let it run in the background
  	  	If you can figure out ways to improve it, we'd love to hear them.
13:38 	  	We've started adding RAM to our systems to attack the link time
13:39 	The avatar formerly know as  	SSD help even more with link time.
  	Zi Ree  	8 GB of RAM makes linking bearable.
  	The avatar formerly know as  	I link in under 5-10 minutes usually now.
  	Zi Ree  	has around 60 to 80 seconds.
13:40 	The avatar formerly know as  	Linux though right?
  	Oz Linden  	I like the rule of thumb that putting in all the ram you can afford and the system can use is a great idea
  	Zi Ree  	Yes, Linux.
  	The avatar formerly know as  	More RAM is never a bad thing.
  	Zi Ree  	*nondods*
13:41 	Oz Linden  	We've done some windows trial builds in 12 minutes
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	<- 16gb ram
  	The avatar formerly know as  	has 24GB :P
  	  	My build times for Phoenix on windows are under 7 minutes I think for a full release config.
  	Oz Linden  	alas, our build servers are not (yet) that fast
13:42 	Zi Ree  	It takes me around 25 minutes for a full rebuild.
  	The avatar formerly know as  	Mine's only 2.4ghz I think
  	  	Likely less.
13:43 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	if we are onto a new topic, anything we should know about the vorbs deal, as in how to test to make sure we got it fixed?
13:44 	The avatar formerly know as  	Yeah, I've only managed to hear a very little about that
  	Zi Ree  	Is there a demo exploit somewhere?
  	The avatar formerly know as  	^
13:45 	Oz Linden  	Unfortunately, we can't publish a test plan without also advertising a pretty bad attack vector
  	The avatar formerly know as  	And I assume LL has the vorbis code for the libs up on their HG, right? I havent had a change to check yet.
  	Zi Ree  	Mmmh ...
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it's there, with an autobuild package
13:46 	The avatar formerly know as  	Does it have configs for vc80 still?
  	Oz Linden  	We have verified that the newer version fixes the crash bug
  	  	we're still confirming that it does not introduce any regressions
  	The avatar formerly know as  	needs to build vc80 versions.
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	http://hg.secondlife.com/3p-ogvorbis/overview
13:47 	Oz Linden  	unless that repo has the vc80 stuff in its history, no
  	  	has not looked
  	The avatar formerly know as  	Thats the only one that needs to be updated for this exploit?
  	Oz Linden  	yes, just the two libs that repo builds
13:48 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	no code changes to the viewer either?
  	Oz Linden  	no code changes in the viewer that we know of yet... like I said, we're still regression testing
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	ok
13:49 	Oz Linden  	There will be commits for this in viewer-pre-beta and viewer-pre-release some time today (assuming testing goes well), followed shortly by viewer-development
13:50 	  	but so far they are just that lib upgrade
13:51 	  	Has everyone patched their viewers to accept the new avatar update messages?
13:52 	Zi Ree  	We did.
13:53 	  	Oz, I'm not sure if I understood it correctly, so I might be a bit vague. One of our devs pointed out that there was a change made to the PNG library, but the library itself was not packaged yet. I was asked to bring it to your attention.
  	Oz Linden  	I have not heard anything about that....
13:54 	Zi Ree  	Mmmhm ... ok. I'll try to get more information about what it was exactly.
  	Oz Linden  	I see in the change history that the dev who did it is from the mesh team
13:55 	  	it may be (I'd go so far as to it's likely) that the change is only integrated on the mesh branch and will merge with that
  	Zi Ree  	Ok!
  	The avatar formerly know as  	Hmmm, looks like I can build those libs manually pretty easily.
13:56 	  	The autobuild script wouldnt even run on my sys, complained I was missing some commands.
  	Oz Linden  	that's the idea !
  	The avatar formerly know as  	But it has MSVC project files for every version :3
13:58 	Oz Linden  	sometimes you get lucky
14:00 	  	Someone posted in the SL viewer forum the other day asking about song titles
  	  	Anyone know how the viewers that display those get titles?
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	from the audio stream itself
14:01 	Ima Mechanique  	I imagine they take it from the MP3 stream data
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	its encoded with the stream
14:02 	Oz Linden  	I guess I've never activated that when running any tpv (I usually leave media off)
  	  	where do the titles show up?
  	Zi Ree  	The OpenjAL library exposes the stream info I think.
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	local chat in phoenix
  	Ima Mechanique  	in chat
  	Zi Ree  	The names go into open chat as system messages.
  	Ima Mechanique  	it's a neat feature ;-)
  	  	makes the script I wrote obsolete
14:03 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	in most lpv, its a preference you enable to see the song info
  	  	tpv*
  	Oz Linden  	if someone put that together for viewer-development, I think I could get it integrated pretty quickly
14:04 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	we have it in firestorm, shouldnt be to hard to port over
  	Oz Linden  	I met with the head of our User Experience team for much of the last two days, and there are a number of things we're going to be asking for
14:05 	Ima Mechanique  	asking us for? or asking the head?
  	Oz Linden  	asking tpvs to contribute
14:07 	  	I've been pushing the notion that LL should think of all TPVs as innovation labs, and importing the best of what they come up with
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	katherine berry was the one that developed the song info
  	Zi Ree  	polishes her claws.
  	Oz Linden  	that attitude is gaining a lot of traction
14:08 	Zi Ree  	I like this idea :)
  	Oz Linden  	you'll be hearing it more
14:09 	Ima Mechanique  	makes sense. LL's viewer will always be more conservative on new stuff
  	Zi Ree  	Being official and all.
14:10 	Nicky Perian  	Got to grap my chain saw and cut storm downed trees to firewood. Later folks.
  	Oz Linden  	well, there are things it's hard for TPVs to do... anything that requires extensive server support, for example
  	Zi Ree  	Yes.
  	Ima Mechanique  	bye Nicky, good to see you
14:11 	Zi Ree  	I had to find a few ... workarounds for things I added to Firestorm *chuckles*
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	tc nicky
  	Oz Linden  	but there lots of things you can try without that, and we are hoping that we can leverage that ability
  	Techwolf Lupindo  	Made it.
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	:P
14:12 	Zi Ree  	There is quite a lot one can do without having server support. So I guess we can come up with more things in the future :)
14:13 	Ima Mechanique  	what ever happened to http textures?
  	  	I mean external textures
  	Oz Linden  	they are in use
14:14 	  	external?
  	Ima Mechanique  	able to set a internet URL for a prim?
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	pulling textures directly off the web, i think
  	Zi Ree  	Isn't that in V2 by default?
  	Ima Mechanique  	yup
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it is
  	Tonya Souther  	Media on a Prim. It's a Viewer 2 feature.
14:15 	Oz Linden  	it's sort of a degenerate case, but it's there
  	Ima Mechanique  	not MoaP
  	Oz Linden  	I think that there are some isses with texture scaling when doing that...
  	Ima Mechanique  	for example there was supposed to be a llSetTextureURL() function
  	Cron Stardust  	There's an old conflation here I think..
14:16 	Oz Linden  	I've found it's usually easier to import and upload the texture than use the URL, but then I'm not paying for the uploads :-)
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	>.>
  	Oz Linden  	ah... well I wouldn't know about the LSL
  	  	that's not a viewer thing
  	Ima Mechanique  	Someone raised the subject on the Scripting ML. piqued my curiosity again ;-)
14:18 	Cron Stardust  	Back when HHTP Textures was being announced, a lot of people (including myself for a period of time) thought it meant "I wil be able to set a URL for a texture instead of using an asset!" Thus the conflation with what became MoaP. :P
  	Ima Mechanique  	before HTTP textures there was a project which amied to do just that Cron
14:19 	  	it changed into HTTP textures later I think
  	  	at least that's how the wiki reads
  	  	I remember doing some experiments with SMIL
14:20 	Oz Linden  	there is a way to do that....
14:21 	  	HTTP Textures refers to using HTTP (as opposed to UDP) to fetch texture assets, though
  	  	different feature
14:23 	Cron Stardust  	Just had a orthoganal thought...
14:24 	Oz Linden  	?
  	Cron Stardust  	What would it take to get the water to warp based on the reflection map... I see from Wireframe that there's not a lot of polys dedicated to the water though...
14:25 	Oz Linden  	Warp how?
  	Zi Ree  	Water is just a flat surface with a texture on it.
  	Kraptacular Kat  	would be nice to see water as a parallax shader
  	Cron Stardust  	move vertically so that object-water and land-water boundarys shift (so it looks fluid)
14:26 	Kraptacular Kat  	yep
  	Oz Linden  	oh. I don't know.
  	Kraptacular Kat  	that would be something to bring up to Runtitai after mesh is released
  	  	crap
14:27 	  	Runitai I mean
  	Oz Linden  	you can make it look choppier, as long as you don't look too closely at that boundary
  	Cron Stardust  	IIRC there's a new shader type in OpenGL that can add polys on the fly - maybe do dynamic poly creation on the surface and shift based on a heightma or some such :P
  	Yuzuru  	normal map?
  	Ima Mechanique  	I gotta run out before local shop closes. bye all
14:28 	Cron Stardust  	correct: curren;ty the vertices don't move (and there's not enough of them to make it worth it ATM)
  	Kraptacular Kat  	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXKZL8GfVmg
  	  	something almost like this
14:29 	Cron Stardust  	yeppers
14:30 	  	that's perfect. (Just saw the put-a-cube int it section)
  	Kraptacular Kat  	perfect for that vertical movement
  	Oz Linden  	that's very cool
  	Cron Stardust  	that applied dynamically to the water would be a nice effect for beach and water operations.
14:31 	Kraptacular Kat  	just need it to scroll
  	Cron Stardust  	then (later) we could add obect-interaction to the shader (I think) so that object cause ripples and splashes based on velocity >D
  	Kraptacular Kat  	and overlay it with normal mapping for the water texture and tere you go
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	looks similer to bump map displacement in DX
  	Kraptacular Kat  	kick ass water
14:32 	Oz Linden  	(and then he'll want the waves to reflect and refract....) :-)
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	lol
  	Cron Stardust  	later!, but maybe :P
  	Oz Linden  	go for it Cron
  	  	if you can implement it....
  	Kraptacular Kat  	thats why you overlay it with normal mapping that already is used for the water
  	Tonya Souther  	but if you build a surfboard, I'm going to get nervous.
14:33 	Cron Stardust  	so far I've not been able to pull myself into OpenGL 3.0 land in simple tests... WE'll see. :P
14:34 	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	video is to blury to read the bbuild floater
  	Kraptacular Kat  	need to view it at a higher setting
14:35 	Oz Linden  	I've got to wrap up, folks.... things to do.... thanks for coming, and for the nice ambitions....
  	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks 	tc oz
  	  	thx for the info