Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 12 19

== List of Speakers ==
Ardy Lay
Eddi Decosta
flexi campfire
Leonel Iceghost
Liisa Runo
Stickman Ingmann
== Transcript ==
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning.
[09:06] Liisa Runo: morning
[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Hey Kelly.
[09:06] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That will teach you to run iTunes.
[09:06] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Hello, hello...
[09:06] Eddi Decosta: hey Kelly, good morning to ?
[09:06] Nal (nalates.urriah): Yeah Kelly! U over came the computer!
[09:06] Eddi Decosta: hug lol
[09:06] Ardy Lay: Hi Kelly. Deep breaths. Small steps. PUNT!
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Apparently itunes had been stalled since I turned on my computer more or less an hour ago and I just didn't realize it
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And SL couldn't get past initializing vfs while it was.
[09:07] Ardy Lay: iTunes was probably inspecting your cache and things.
[09:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Was iTunes gobbling all your memory as if it was Silvalco?
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I dunno.
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Anyway.
[09:08] Liisa Runo: lil*
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): This is Win7 64bit.
[09:09] Liisa Runo: iTunes on windows? ok, that is the suprising part
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): But, I have become a mac person this year. My personal computer is a mac, and I have i devices.
[09:09] Liisa Runo: ^^
[09:09] Leonel Iceghost: iTunes steal resourses in Win since I remember
[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hope everyone had a good weekend.
[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Good enough
[09:11] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I don't remember... Must have been good... =^_^=
[09:11] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We got that last maint-server project out last week, and things seem pretty good so far.
[09:11] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Yeay!
[09:12] Liisa Runo: (Kaluura dont forget because of alcohol, he dont use it, he forget stuff cause he is so old, grows moss)
[09:12] Leonel Iceghost: haha
[09:12] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So for LSL that means llTransferLindenDollars is grid wide, and llGetParcelMusicURL
[09:12] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): No comment...
[09:12] Ardy Lay: What's your take on all the "region crossings fail" complaints buzzing around?
[09:13] Ardy Lay: SOme folks want to blame the viewers now.
[09:13] tehKellz (kelly.linden): There have always been region crossings fail complaints. I'm not sure what is new now. I know we are working on projects to make it better.
[09:13] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I have no problem... Long time a border crossing ever failed on me...
[09:14] Ardy Lay: I am curious if the people that say they are low-script and still have problems are really low-script.
[09:14] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): It's been a while since I crossed a region border.
[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): ah
[09:15] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): The worse I've seen happening at border crossing is a bit of drift... And it has been so for such a long time!
[09:15] Ardy Lay: I know there is going to be variability due to conditions such as network load/congestion, host load, service process uptime, etc.
[09:17] Ardy Lay: I remember a while back .... A network infrastructure project called LL-Net was being talked about a lot.
[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We are trying to address the uptime related (ie bloat) issues. In fact this last server maintenance branch had several fixes for that in it. And there are a few already in the next maint-server.
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): LLNet was completed quite a while ago.
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I don't know a lot of the details but it is essentially a private network between our colos.
[09:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): One thing that has been nice of the weekly Rolls is that the bloat issue hasn't been a big deal.
[09:19] Ardy Lay: It was described as a dedicated optical path to replace VPN tunnels over shared Internet paths.
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): liisa, what in the world are you?
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ardy that sounds like what it is.
[09:19] Liisa Runo: im some kind of space insect
[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): With a stylin hat and hand bag
[09:20] Liisa Runo: yea, im classy
[09:20] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Feminine touch...
[09:20] Ardy Lay: Hehe
[09:20] Leonel Iceghost: lol Liisa, your bag
[09:20] Leonel Iceghost: you forgot to leave it at home, you are not very scary with it
[09:21] Kraft (kraftman.gearhead): depends, every get hit by grandma's purse? ?
[09:21] Liisa Runo: you just need to get to know me better to star tto fear me
[09:21] Kraft (kraftman.gearhead): *ever*
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So let me see if there is anything interesting in the *next* maint server which should hit RC shortly after the new year.
[09:21] Ardy Lay: Now if we could get some of the memory-bloat the viewer addressed .... it's been pretty bad recently. I had to cheat and set LAA (large address aware).
[09:21] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): llSetRegionPos(), of course...
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): "frame_number" option for llGetEnv()
[09:22] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SVC-7466
[09:22] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7466
[#SVC-7466] A notecard holds more data than a script can read
[09:22] Liisa Runo: llSLPPFast(LINK_ROOT,[REGION_POS
[09:23] Liisa Runo: yay, more script mem ?
[09:23] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Fix for the bug that causes the viewer to show a -1 balance if a script causes a L$ transfer error
[09:24] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I do think simon was planning on getting llSetRegionPos in there, but I don't see it linked yet. I'll talk to him about that later today.
[09:24] Nal (nalates.urriah): Simon said something about it last week.
[09:24] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): TEll him not to forget PRIM_POS_REGION... We need to be able to do pos and rot at the same time.
[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think we may not be doing that one on the first pass.
[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If you need pos and rot on the same frame you may be limited to 10 meters.
[09:25] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): You better hurry... You'll soon have a riot with all the broken PosJumps...
[09:26] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): PosJump can be combined with a rot. Very useful for fake TP...
[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Honestly, for the use case here of posjump I am not convinced you need same-frame pos and rot changes.
[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): You know, we don't really need things to happen in 1 frame... 2 frames is fine.
[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Everything in a llSPPF happens in a single frame.
[09:28] Ardy Lay: Oh, is there a way for a script to detect when the texture on a prim face has changed without having to periodicaly get the texture UUID and compare that with the results of the previous check?
[09:28] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Then if you combine PosJump and a rot... One frame... It's possible.
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Ardy: Unfortunately not. We tried to fix that once and trigger a 'changed' event and broke a lot of stuff.
[09:29] Ardy Lay: Heh, poorly written vendor scripts?
[09:29] Ardy Lay: I think I remember that mess.
[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kaluura: If you do llSetRot(); llSetRegionPos(); it will probably almost always happen in a single frame anyway.
[09:29] Ardy Lay: I was disappointed that rollback had to happen.
[09:29] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I seem to recall that in the discussion of llPosjump() they were coniddering having the script give up the processor fro the rest of the frame.
[09:29] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So were we, ardy. :)
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kallista: Yes, I think that is the current plan.
[09:31] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That would be a good thing, I think
[09:31] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): 1 or 2 frames, we won't see the difference. All that matters is that we get something to replace the broken PosJump...
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Oh, right, I forgot about another feature I added to the next maint server - a new stat that will be sent to viewers.
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): "% of scripts run in a frame"
[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Will have to work on getting viewers to show it later.
[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Can we have that infos tranmitted to scripts too?
[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): -s
[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): is that % of all scripts in a region?
[09:33] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): transmitted*
[09:33] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So if your region is lightly loaded it will report 100%, if you have so many scripts it takes 2 frames to run them all it will report something around 50%
[09:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Of available for retrieval?
[09:34] Leonel Iceghost: nice stat
[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): This is of the scripts running in the region.
[09:34] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Would be very appreciate by all the scripters obsessed with lagmeters...
[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It probably won't be available to LSL just yet.
[09:34] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): llGetScriptPercent( float runpercent);
[09:35] Ardy Lay: Good luck getting anything ADDED to the viewer UI. User Experience keeps ripping stuff out that I was using.
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): We got spare time back in the ctrl-shift-1 window
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Should be able to get a % scripts run in there.
[09:36] Liisa Runo: if ((scripts_run < 100%) && (Spare_time > 0)) {server is brocen, automatically summon a techie linden to investigate
[09:36] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ardy it'll be in Firestorm on the next release cycle after the spec is announced, I'll bet l$1
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): heh
[09:36] Ardy Lay: I won't be using Firestorm.
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Liisa: right, though I'm not sure that is true with homesteads.
[09:37] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): I hate homesteads...
[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Homesteads have a baked in extra large spare time to share with the other homesteads.
[09:37] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That ain't true with Homesteads
[09:37] Liisa Runo: i wonder if i have ever seen a homestead
[09:38] Ardy Lay: I think a lot of the mainland water regions are Homesteads, or is that Openspace?
[09:38] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): for a Honestead it would be Spare_time > 10E-6
[09:38] tehKellz (kelly.linden): In any case, this stat is not designed to tell "is the sim loaded", the spare time works fairly well for that. The idea is more to show how heavily loaded it is once you reach the point that spare time is used up.
[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden): At least for normal regions. For homesteads this could be a better stat to watch than spare time.
[09:39] Liisa Runo: yea, it will be neat lil piece of info
[09:40] Ardy Lay: I'd still like to get script reporting working in the viewer.
[09:40] Liisa Runo: people get more tools to whine about scripts of neighbor while they roll their 50 physical breedables on the terrain
[09:41] Ardy Lay: SCR-133
[09:41] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-133
[#SCR-133] Script Info reporting on discontiguous parcels is not working as expected.
[09:41] Ardy Lay: VWR-23393
[09:41] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-23393
[#VWR-23393] Viewer reports script info for the wrong parcel, in some cases
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): 133 is a viewer bug.
[09:42] Ardy Lay: Move it please?
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Yeah. The server sends all the right data when asked the right questions.
[09:42] Ardy Lay: I know it has been batted back and forth some.
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hrm, actually 133 could be server. I'd have to look more.
[09:43] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Hi Mumbles
[09:43] Mumbles (charlar.linden): sorry I was delayed.
[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think it is the same issue as that viewer issue you aleady linked, which is already linked to this issue
[09:44] Eddi Decosta: hey Charlar, long time no see ?
[09:45] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning charlar.
[09:45] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[09:45] Ardy Lay: Yeah, maybe my issue got cloned.
[09:45] Ardy Lay: Several of my old JIRA issues now have other names in the reporter field.
[09:46] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is odd.
[09:46] Ardy Lay: 48 of them
[09:47] tehKellz (kelly.linden): have an example?
[09:48] Ardy Lay: Most of them were about stuff that got removed from the viewer so it's not your problem. ;-)
[09:48] Ardy Lay: Hmm... One moment.
[09:48] Stickman Ingmann: I just got in, what's the topic?
[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden): No topic today.
[09:49] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): We're talking about the reproduction of the Jiras in closed space...
[09:49] Stickman Ingmann: I hopped in because there were a few Jiras of mine that were closed that I was double checking. Reopened two. One is marked incomplete, but was actually fixed.
[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Which jiras?
[09:50] Stickman Ingmann: I just lost it. I arched the email, and my window got closed. Somehow. Looking them up again.
[09:50] Stickman Ingmann: Archived.
[09:51] Stickman Ingmann: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1125 Here's the guy that's actually fixed.
[09:51] flexi campfire: [#VWR-1125] Clicking Title Bar While Mouselook'd Repositions SL Window
[09:51] Stickman Ingmann: I think that was one of my first bugs. I was so happy when I found it.
[09:51] Ardy Lay: Hmm, Kelly, there were in BTEST and apparently got moved to EXT, archived off and a few were cloned back into VWR.
[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden): yeah the cloning can cause a new creator, while moving doesn't
[09:52] Stickman Ingmann: Here's an interesting one that's script related, Kelly. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6387 Should that be moved to the scripting category?
[09:52] flexi campfire: [#VWR-6387] multi-prim attachments designed to move on command DO move but DO NOT show as moved when avatar's Z >= 420m
[09:53] Ardy Lay: My links to them don't work now. :-(
[09:54] Ardy Lay: A new issue Just for fun: SVC-7552
[09:54] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7552
[#SVC-7552] World map tile generator renders mesh objects as marshmallows.
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): scripting bugs without examples scripts are pretty close to useless.
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): yeah the map servers don't know how to render meshes.
[09:55] Stickman Ingmann: Unfortunately, the >420m bug is difficult to reproduce. I haven't found a consistent reproduction.
[09:56] Leonel Iceghost: have you got the IM I sent you last week Kelly? about the changes with LSO
[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden): if clicking on it pops it, then it sounds like an update isn't getting sent to the viewer.
[09:56] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I saw them Leonel.
[09:57] Stickman Ingmann: Clicking on it used to. But doesn't anymore.
[09:57] Stickman Ingmann: 3.2.4
[09:57] Leonel Iceghost: I couln't reproduce the "labels" change, I would have to dig in lots of bakups to get it back
[09:58] Leonel Iceghost: and I press Ctrl S every two secs, and it generates a backup every time
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Leonel: For that discussion (which there isn't enough time now to bring up today) I'm actually more interested in things you can do in LSL but can't in mono. Most of the issues you sent me are things we probably really can't change.
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And times up!
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): :)
[10:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I will not be hosting a meeting next week, as it is a holiday, nor the following week, as it is also a holiday.
[10:01] Stickman Ingmann: Thanks for fixing that Jira resolution, Kelly.
[10:01] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): See you next year, then... :P
[10:01] Leonel Iceghost: damn holidays
[10:01] Liisa Runo: thanks everybod
[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Which puts the next scripting meeting at the 9th. I should be at the server meeting tomorrow, but not this Friday.
[10:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): See you next year kelly
[10:01] Liisa Runo: +y
[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I don't know about next tuesday.
[10:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Have a good holiday(s) everyone.
[10:02] Leonel Iceghost: good bye all,