Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-11-18

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on November 18th, 2010
= Agenda =
== Updates ==
* Busy week
** Production roll this Tuesday 
*** Threaded Rez is now enabled.
*** This roll went well without the crash on shutdown bug
** MAGNUM is the same + AIS
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/Magnum
** BlueSteel has new code
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/BlueSteel
*** Linkability RULES!! http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkability_Rules
** LeTigre is the same as the production branch
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta/LeTigre
** The new reg process went out today.
*** Get your resident names.
** Bug finding bounties.
*** worth it?
** Another idea for RC channel designation.
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for November 18th, 2010:
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: All hail the Great Oskar
* [15:01] Ryal Enoch: **:•.•:** hallo hello hi holla **:•.•:**
* [15:01] Ryal Enoch: oskar
* [15:01] Ryal Enoch: i gotta kill that gesture lol
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hi gooden
* [15:01] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
* [15:02] Jacky Scharf: hi everybody 
* [15:02] Rex Cronon: hi
* [15:02] Lares Carter: hi latif
* [15:02] Latif Khalifa: hello
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: ther ewe go
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: nice and quiet
* [15:03] Lares Carter: thanks, oskar.
* [15:03] Latif Khalifa: :)
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: we were waiting for u to start talking:)
* [15:03] Grid Moderator: oohh awesome
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: forest klaar was starting to annoy me
* [15:03] Grid Moderator: me too
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I had to delete all that garbage
* [15:03] Kallista DestinyKallista: Destiny chuckles
* [15:03] Grid Moderator: the weord candlabra thing behind me too please?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: so here's the agenda https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:03] Rex Cronon: oh. there was griefing episode
* [15:04] Kallista Destiny: It was interesting burt noisy
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: good day to you all! :-)
* [15:04] Rex Cronon: hi oskar
* [15:04] Ryal Enoch: :)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I just realized that next week is the Thanksgiving Holiday in the US
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I will not be having an OH
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I will be very thankful ;-)
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: but I will miss you all
* [15:05] Ash Qin: The highlight of the week down the drain.... oh well.
* [15:05] Grid Moderator: *smiles*
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: turkey at my place if you can make it
* [15:05] Jonathan Yap: Send slurl Oskar
* [15:05] Grid Moderator: beer and turkey, my favorite day
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: hmm, slurls to my mom's house
* [15:05] Rex Cronon: free turkey. hmm. nice:)
* [15:05] Ryal Enoch: send a jet? lol
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: if anyone has the transcript from last weeks OH send it to me please... my other machine died
* [15:06] Jacky Scharf: Oh, nice agenda. Next meeting on 2010-11-11 :P~[15:06
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: yeah...
* [15:06] Jacky Scharf: hehe
* [15:06] Kallista Destiny: lols
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: soooo
* [15:06] Grid Moderator: tell your mom that a buncha geeks, freaks and weirdos say "hi" from the beta grid
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: without further ado I'll get started
* [15:06] Joe from: Chicago: I guess this week doesn't really exist yet
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: the roll this week went so much smoother
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it really helps when simulators don't crash on shutdown
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: thanks to simon for fixing that
* [15:07] Kallista Destiny: laughs
* [15:07] Grid Moderator: yup, cheers to simon
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it made the roll get in and out in under 5 hours or so
* [15:07] Simon Linden: Reporting the same crash 3 or 4 times also looked bad
* [15:07] Ryal Enoch: YAY!
* [15:07] Meeru Rau: hello everybody
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so we rolled the LeTigre code with threaded rez disabled
* [15:08] Grid Moderator: simon, sims still perform better after a roll when restarted again, that hasn't changed
* [15:08] Rex Cronon: hi
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: then we sneakily enabled it this morning
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: did anyone notice?
* [15:08] Joe from: Chicago: nope
* [15:08] Latif KhalifaLatif: Khalifa is on the release chan
* [15:08] Kallista DestinyKallista: Destiny is on Magnum
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: have we had a chance to monitor performance or get any usable statistics yet Simon?
* [15:09] Grid Moderator: nope, haven't been to the beach club yet
* [15:09] Joe from: Chicago: but then I wasn't online
* [15:09] Grid Moderator: i'll tell ya tonight when there's 20 people on it :)
* [15:09] Kallista DestinyKallista: Destiny thinks that AIS is a HUGE win....
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: the Magnum regions still are the same code + AIS
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: that seems to be going well
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: any thoughts on that?
* [15:11] Grid Moderator: all this good news, it's hard to react to :)
* [15:11] Simon Linden: I've been looking at the major numbers for fps, crash rates, etc and haven't seen any problems
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: you're a grid moderator eh gooden?
* [15:11] Grid Moderator: lol i forgot about that
* [15:11] Kallista Destiny: I hear much less complaining about slow rezzing
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: I could have sworn you were going to protect your gooden identity to the detah
* [15:12] Simon Linden: it should make sims run smoother when rezzing objects
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: death
* [15:12] Grid Moderator: that was to demonstate a social engineered scam, last tiume this av used V2
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: nice
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: welcome eddi
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel got new code yesterday too
* [15:13] Eddi Decosta: thanks sorery for this interupt 
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: anything you want to mention in regards to the linkability project simon?
* [15:13] Grid Moderator: are you going to slow down the RC's going into december?
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: wait, you want us to slow down servers now?
* [15:14] Grid Moderator: no, just that no one will be at the lab to fix things :)
* [15:14] Latif Khalifa: just wondering about schedule, vacations, and their effect on the pace of server RCs
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: yeah, we have a large no change window for most of december
* [15:14] Grid Moderator: gotcha
* [15:15] Simon Linden: I'm not sure where the linkability code is right now ... but we're relaxing the linking rules a little, which makes the calculations simpler and faster. It should help a bit with performance
* [15:15] Grid Moderator: i think a lot of good work is being done, the results are encouraging
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: is there anything people can look at specifically in regards to that on BlueSteel?
* [15:15] Simon Linden: There won't be any new code pushed out next week ... I think there are some planned for the week after, but I'm not certain
* [15:16] Grid Moderator: thanks simon, a lot of people have wanted that for a long time
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: yeah, no new code next week because of thanksgiving. after that I think we have 1 or 2 more rc's planned
* [15:16] Kallista Destiny: anything affecting temp rez queueing?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: I don't think we have any changes in that area Kallista
* [15:17] Kallista Destiny: thank you
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: LeTigre has no new changes this week and it matches production
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: so it can get a break
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: while we are on the topic of RC's I'm going to bump a discussion form the agenda up
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: it has been pretty frustrating for people on the RC's who aren't interested in reelase testing
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: they just want stable code and feel like we have singled them out to harm their business
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: someone proposed a possible idea
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: so right now we have 3 RC channels
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: and then the stable branch
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: the idea was to split the entire grid into 5 channels
* [15:20] Rex Cronon: weird. last time i checked testing does generate stable code
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: each channel at 20%
* [15:20] Grid Moderator: ummm...
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: then when new projects come into release they get put on a different channel in order
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: so spread the load of testing release code to every region
* [15:21] Latif Khalifa: yeah, but i can imagine that 3-4 restarts on RC chans can get disruptive...
* [15:21] Grid Moderator: so when something goes wrong, more people share the misery?
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: but not always the same region
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: not really
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: but not having new code always going to letigre regions or something
* [15:21] Grid Moderator: i can't imagine estate owners going for this
* [15:21] SMILE: there: are testing regions,
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: I think that the idea has merit
* [15:21] Grid Moderator: not unless they can opt out
* [15:21] SMILE: instead: of maing all grid a testing grid
* [15:21] Bronson Blackadder: more frequent restarts seem to keep the sim healthy
* [15:22] Bronson Blackadder: at least I found
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: people can't opt out of getting production code as it is
* [15:22] SMILE: ah,: good
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: Yes combat sims are routinely restarted afte a big lag fest
* [15:22] Grid Moderator: production code is *supposed* to be stable
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: not all of the grid will be a testing grud, just 1/5th
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: Bronson, if you control when, people on mainland are sort of guinea pigs in this KPC scheme
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: this idea would be able to give more regions more time on 'production' code
* [15:23] Bronson Blackadder: yeah I know
* [15:23] Grid Moderator: private estates can be restarted at any time, that isn't really a consequence, mainland should be restarted more tho
* [15:23] Bronson Blackadder: but long times in between restarts star showing up weird regressions
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: if we have 5 channels and 1 project, then 1 channel gets the RC code and the rest stay on stable code
* [15:23] TankMaster Finesmith: so 1/5th has testing one week, then a different 1/5 the next, and so on?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: the next time a project comes it does to the next channel
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: yes tankmaster
* [15:24] Jonathan Yap: I thought magnum, etc. were 10% each of the grid?
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: they are about 6-8%
* [15:24] Grid Moderator: interesting, i suppose, wouldn't that slow down the KCP (and OPP) ?
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: because everyone wants off of them once they find they are on them
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: it's hard to build statistical relevency
* [15:24] TankMaster Finesmith: ahh, so each sim them would see 1 week beta, 4 weeks stable, repeat
* [15:24] Ash Qin: Many sims are cluttered with trash on abandoned land. Can the default land settings be applied automatically to such parcels upon restart of a sim?
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: Oskar that is assuming that there won't be multiple projects goin on at the same time. Whaqt happens if there are 5 projects at once. The whol grid would be on some sort of post beta testing.
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: right if there are 2 projects then 2/5ths would be in RC code
* [15:25] Grid Moderator: yeah, that's where you lose me
* [15:25] Grid Moderator: estate owners want the stable release
* [15:25] SMILE: it: is indeed not relevant to test during one week an RC
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: we're trying to strike a balance between people who don't want to be in an RC branch because they are always in RC and having enough regions to make the RC process worthwhile
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: with this approach at least we're not seen to be picking on people and singling out RC regions
* [15:27] Jonathan Yap: Would it help from a PR perspective to have a web page that listed each region's status?
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: right now ~25% of the grid is ALWAYS in RC
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: and those EM's are not happy
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: with this new idea, people get a break
* [15:27] SMILE: yes,: but RC last for one week or so. What stabiltiy can be infered so ?
* [15:27] Joe from: Chicago: Sounds like a good plan
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it's an idea we've been talking about
* [15:28] Grid Moderator: i understand that, but people who have a entire sim so they can *attempt* to operate a venue with high traffic shouldn't have to test anything, they're trying to deal with past mistakes (mono) as it is
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: I wanted to mention it here
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: cuz i respekt ur opinions :-)
* [15:28] Grid Moderator: if there's an opt-out, i have no problem with it
* [15:28] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:28] Ash Qin: Can you manage to keep the biggest part of Blake Sea on the same server version? Might be helpful during the races.
* [15:28] Joe from: Chicago: I'm always in RD, a break sounds nice
* [15:29] Joe from: Chicago: TC
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: if there's an opt-out everyone will
* [15:29] Joe from: Chicago: RC
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: yeah, make "no RCs list" where sim owners can do
* [15:29] Kallista Destiny: Well the problem with opt out, is that the sims that would really test things are likley to opt out of the testing process.
* [15:29] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, I doubt most people would opt out
* [15:29] Grid Moderator: you have the entire mainland to test with
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: that's the problem we're having now. everyone wants off the RC's
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: every week I give lil a new list of people who want off
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: the fewer we have the harder it is to notice issues
* [15:30] Grid Moderator: how about you make a qualifier, allow high traffic regions to opt out
* [15:30] Kallista Destiny: Now What mught be a viable option is opt-out-of-this-cycle if there is a percieved problem with any particualt RC
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: if we did do the split the grid 5 ways thing at least it would be 'fair'
* [15:30] Grid Moderator: non-botted traffic, obviously
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: maybe if u give something for being in the RC?
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: that's the other fun part. people on RC's complain even when their code is the same as the stable branch because they have something to blame
* [15:31] Latif Khalifa: well with fewer people online and business falling i understand people not wanting uncotrollable restarts of their sims.
* [15:31] Jonathan Yap: What they get for being in the RC is, in the long run, better sim code
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I still have to move them off
* [15:31] Grid Moderator: you ask the regions who get high traffic to take all the n00bs and guest accounts, you can do that for them...
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I personally would like to see us be able to release perfect code to agni without RC's, but we just can't really do that
* [15:31] Rex Cronon: if people don't want to be part of the RC, that means better sim code is not what is important right now for them
* [15:31] Kallista Destiny: Lols I've noticed that.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: not in a timely fashion with the resources we have
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: better sim code is not what is important to a lot of people who complain to me. they just want off the RC's
* [15:32] Kallista Destiny: Actually it's an unobtainable goal.
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: even if that same code will get to their region in a week
* [15:33] Ash Qin: Then you have to disguise the release code with smooth looking names :-p
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: it's been a pretty frustrating experience for us.
* [15:33] Latif Khalifa: i think it's the many restarts of RC sims that tick people off
* [15:33] Grid Moderator: as much asd i sympathathize (and i do) there's are regions on the grid that should always be on the stable version because they are the places where people congregate the most
* [15:33] SMILE: personnaly: I like being in RC, if it does last more than a week. I a week I cant give any reliable info.
* [15:33] Ryal Enoch: what about dicounting the sims if a land owner in a mid traffic aria Wants to test code?
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: the RC's only restart more than once a week if there are bugs that need to be fixed
* [15:33] Kallista Destiny: well if there is a real problem , I'm sure that people want the restart.
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: magnum hasn't restarted since 11.09
* [15:33] Joe from: Chicago: Maybe call them upgrades instead of RC to hide it a bit?
* [15:34] Illyria Illyar: that is a good question - if you have the entire mainland to test RC's with - why do you do it in private regions
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: heh. 5 channels OSSM Code Channel1
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: Better Code Than Yours
* [15:34] Kallista Destiny: Flynn that would be a PR smokescreen that everyon would see through.
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:34] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, you usually restart RC sims with the updated code that went to the main chan too, so at least one extra rerstart
* [15:34] Simon Linden: would it help if we did the restarts at a different time? There's no one perfect time of day to do it, but we've discussed early vs. late in the day
* [15:34] Grid Moderator: the RC code is pretty damned good so far, performance is better, but... a bunnykiller sneaks thru ocasionally...
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: we didn't do that with letigre yesterday I though
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: t
* [15:35] TankMaster Finesmith: EM selectable restart time?
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: as it is I'm up at like 5:50am release days
* [15:35] Simon Linden: btw, the new linkability rules are at 
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: thansk simon!
* [15:35] Grid Moderator: thanks simon
* [15:35] SMILE: they: are nice.
* [15:36] Rex Cronon: ah. the viewer just crashed firefox:(
* [15:36] Kallista Destiny: illyai becasue mainland sims usually don't have high stress , compaied to say Comba sims with 40 people spraying temp rez all over the place
* [15:36] TankMaster Finesmith: why a d of 54? (just curious)
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: the last full grid rolling restart we had to do was because the RC channels are too small to offer significant statistical relevency
* [15:36] Simon Linden: there's one thing to watch out for ... since the new rules a slightly relaxed from the old, you may have something that will link OK in a BlueSteel region but not in another channel
* [15:36] Illyria Illyar: no offence Kalllista - but my private sims are less laggy than main land
* [15:37] Illyria Illyar: much less laggy
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: we don't have any plans in place to make the switch to 5 channels, but we've been discussing it
* [15:37] Grid Moderator: i think you'll find EM's prefer the idea of simconsole and being able to choose their channel according to need
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: yeah... I like that too, from an EM pov, but that doesn't mean better test coverage
* [15:38] Grid Moderator: i would definitely put residential sims on RC's
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: almost all mainland sims are on RC channels
* [15:38] SMILE: what: is a residential sim ?
* [15:39] Grid Moderator: but combat sims, and multigaming and entertainment venues should be able to opt out
* [15:39] Jonathan Yap: Linden Homes?
* [15:39] Oskar Linden: we hav eused up all the regions that we 'own'
* [15:39] Grid Moderator: estate sims zoned to residences only
* [15:39] Ash Qin: There's a lot of empty space in that, Oskar.
* [15:39] Grid Moderator: about 50% of the grid, i believe
* [15:40] SMILE: this: is very vague definition Gooden
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: how are they zoned residential?
* [15:40] Ryal Enoch: but if there was a discount for testing and becoming an rc, people would stand in line to have a sim put on the list.
* [15:40] Kallista Destiny: Illiay come to sardar during a big battle..... time dialation .02 sometimes.
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: is that a database setting?
* [15:40] Grid Moderator: read a few covenants, it's not hard to understand
* [15:40] Grid Moderator: "no commercial"
* [15:40] Oskar Linden: so it's all in the covenant
* [15:40] Grid Moderator: yup
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: not exactly easy to parse from the command line when managing 30,000 covenants
* [15:41] Rex Cronon: u don't really have to offer discounts, maybe faster/better help from lindens when needed
* [15:41] Kallista Destiny: lols
* [15:41] SMILE: convenant: does not corrspond to any sim setting
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: yeah, that's what confused me
* [15:41] Latif Khalifa: it's just a uuid to a notecard asset ;)
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: ok, well I'll take your thoughts back to the rest of the team
* [15:41] Grid Moderator: no, but you could offer EM's the ability to exclude high traffic sims while offering up other sims for the RC's
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: then we make sure that high traffic sims are never tested :-D
* [15:42] Grid Moderator: no sigma, it pertains to region ownership rights
* [15:42] Rex Cronon: u first might need to find what sim owners really need
* [15:42] Jonathan Yap: What if the EMs could somehow state their preference for the time of day a restart happens
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: at least with the 5 channel setup the load is spread fairly and evenly and the stats gathered are good
* [15:42] SMILE: so: residential sim mean nothing Gooden
* [15:42] Grid Moderator: oskar, you risk chasing high traffic sims off the grid
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: but that you will surely miss something that depends on high load to break
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: but only 1 risk in 5 ;-)
* [15:43] Grid Moderator: most don't make money, they're labours of love
* [15:43] Grid Moderator: see: svarga
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: 80% chance of not pissing off high traffic sims... I might take those odds
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: better than vegas
* [15:44] Grid Moderator: sigma, thye huge majority of the grid is privately owned, those owners want what they want
* [15:44] Latif Khalifa: the 5 partition grid seems like a good idea, any sim gets to test every 5th project, not so bad
* [15:44] SMILE: Really,: if RC plans could be more publicised, sure that many sim owners would enjoy being in proto beta servers
* [15:44] Grid Moderator: agreed
* [15:44] Kallista Destiny: I think if Estate owners had a quick op out , that is boot to the standard, you'd find less restance to RC
* [15:44] Illyria Illyar: not all of them are labours of love - MCM sim is just for money maybe a little love - but mostly money
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: not many would actually sigma. you guys here are unique. I don't talk with many other EM's who are understanding.
* [15:44] Grid Moderator: but they'll still want the ability to exclude certain sims
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: alright well we can move on in the agenda
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: thanks for letting me bounce that idea around
* [15:45] Kallista Destiny: *grins*
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: next agenda item: the new reg process
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: it is up and online
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: so no more last names?
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: you can noew reigster 'Resident' names
* [15:46] TankMaster Finesmith: well, last name is resident
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: we're all unique now ;)
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: yup
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: so grab something if you want it
* [15:46] TankMaster Finesmith: foo was taken
* [15:46] Jonathan Yap: Can you still register the old way through one of those sites using the old API?
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: soon you'll have to get goodenuggla15.resident
* [15:46] Grid Moderator: so the last name resident, to quote a wise dude, is now another name for "n00b"
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: I don't know jonathan
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:47] Grid Moderator: lol *starts making alts
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: what happens with our current names?
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: I made sure I got Oskar Resident before any of you tricksters snatched it up
* [15:47] Grid Moderator: rex.cronin.resident
* [15:47] Illyria Illyar: yes do we have to worry about people taking our current names?\
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: nothing changes for current names
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: you do not have to worry about people taking your current names. No more so than someone making Illyria NewSurname
* [15:48] Rex Cronon: hmm. now i can have an alt named bill gates:)
* [15:48] Grid Moderator: yes illyria, they won't be protecting us at all
* [15:48] Illyria Illyar: oh joy
* [15:48] Grid Moderator: *nods*
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: not exactly gooden. people can only mimic your name in display
* [15:49] Latif KhalifaLatif: Khalifa just registered "Latif Resident" :P
* [15:49] Oskar LindenOskar: Linden should get Last Resident
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: haha
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: Best Resident
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: First Resident
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: Stinky Resident
* [15:49] Grid Moderator: i'm not sure that's any protection, especially since display names show up on contact lists and in search
* [15:49] Ash Qin: P Resident
* [15:49] Bronson Blackadder: waiting to see a Horny Resident
* [15:49] SMILE: you: forgot a P oscar, hehe
* [15:50] SMILE: P: resident
* [15:50] Bronson Blackadder: Homeless Resident
* [15:50] Grid Moderator: oohh good name bronson
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: p.resident is nice
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: Current Resident
* [15:50] TankMaster Finesmith: some resident
* [15:50] Joe from: Chicago: Dead Resident
* [15:50] Grid Moderator: Medical.Resident
* [15:50] Bronson Blackadder: Lazy Resident
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: ok, so with 10 minutes left let's hop on the last grenade
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: I mean topic
* [15:50] TankMaster Finesmith: administrator is taken :P
* [15:50] Rex Cronon: so u don't need a first and last name?
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: Bug finding bounties
* [15:51] Rex Cronon: bounties:)
* [15:51] Jonathan Yap: Rex, the new vewiers ask for a Username to sign it
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: there was another discussion started this week about th relative ineffectiveness of ADITI in the current state of things
* [15:51] Grid Moderator: i'll take mine in tier reductions please
* [15:51] Jonathan Yap: you only have 1 box to put that name into
* [15:51] Ryal Enoch: $deadP resedent weat a t shits with a $100 bill printd on it
* [15:51] Illyria Illyar: yay Tier reductions
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: ADITI as she stands now has lost the edge that she once had
* [15:51] Ryal Enoch: er shirt
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: given the speed with which projects hit AGNI
* [15:52] SMILE: Not: sure, but is terrain details avalaible every where, and if once dome, is there the risk that in new server roll this can not be changed ?
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: we still need to find bugs before they hit RC
* [15:52] Ash Qin: You want to put all the mesh stuff on agni????
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: but it's harder without a lot of people on ADITI
* [15:52] Grid Moderator: how about making aditi for the mono update :)
* [15:52] Grid Moderator: and mesh, yes
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: stuff comes to ADITI too fast to get a lot of focus on things and there's just too mcuh to look at and we've seen a large frop in people using aditi for testing
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: unless we're talking about mesh
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: a single project like that that a lot of people are excited about and sits on ADITI for months
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: that can and does work
* [15:53] Grid Moderator: you didn't expect that dropoff?
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: but we want to drive more beta testing to aditi for uninteresting projects
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: and we tossed out the idea of bug bounties
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: it would work something like this
* [15:54] Illyria Illyar: now that is a good idea!
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: we'd open up a bug bounty timeslot. like from friday at noon to monday at noon. the projects would be very specific and on organized sims.
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: newly found issues that were ties to the new code that were filed in jira with sufficient repro steps during that window would be rewarded with an L$ bounty
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: u know if it were possible to communicate between beta and main maybe more people would come to beta
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: AGNI L$'s mind you ;-)
* [15:55] TankMaster Finesmith: lol
* [15:55] SMILE: haha: 
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: haha
* [15:55] Grid Moderator: good plan so far
* [15:55] Joe from: Chicago: nice!
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: i have 200k aditi $L :P
* [15:55] SMILE: payed: in kilobugs
* [15:55] TankMaster Finesmith: lol, yeah
* [15:55] Grid Moderator: make sure someone who reads german goes over the jira's...
* [15:55] Lares Carter: you got a number, oskar?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: we want to incentivize and gather more people in for projects that we think might need early attention
* [15:56] Ryal Enoch: i know i could get people in more
* [15:56] Eddi Decosta: loll, yeah i have 12k of l$ here and 0 in agni, its hard to see that lol
* [15:56] Joe from: Chicago: awww I only have 63k
* [15:56] Kallista Destiny: If the word gets out that you're offering bounties for bugs the place will be swarming with entomologists
* [15:56] Jacky ScharfJacky: Scharf is from Germany. So I can read about it.
* [15:56] Ryal Enoch: a lot of others too, just say wow you gotta see this
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: we don't have a number yet and it's not been approved or official
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: I'd hope it were in the same neighborhood of SEC- bugs
* [15:56] Jacky Scharf: -about +over
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: which are L$10,000
* [15:57] Jonathan Yap: Oskar, another way would be to find a bug and your region is not on the RC channels for a month :p
* [15:57] Illyria Illyar: well I think it is a great idea - but am concerned about the potential downsides for Linden Labs
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: we also had an idea about people who worked in teams
* [15:57] Eddi Decosta: yeah oskar i think so to :p
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: a bounty rewarded to the first reporter and also the person who created the first reliable repro
* [15:58] Ash Qin: Kill a sim for a Coke :-p
* [15:58] SMILE: that: would make jira more clean
* [15:58] Grid Moderator: let me put it this way... swarms of non-verified accounts treating it like a holiday treasure hunt - you may want to add provisions for repros and limitr the number of jira's created per session
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: if 2 or more people report it at same time, who takes the prize?
* [15:58] Illyria Illyar: some of the potential downsides to the bug bounty would be the ton of stuff that you will have to wade through that are not bugs
* [15:58] Kallista Destiny: yeah
* [15:59] Illyria Illyar: or reports on undocumented features
* [15:59] Kallista Destiny: byt I think that will be slef limiting...
* [15:59] Illyria Illyar: rather than bugs
* [15:59] SMILE: lol,: excellent Oscar, people complaining with bugs will see it now as a game, and not only a jokes towards LLs
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: obviously it would be at 'our discretion' yadda yadda yadda
* [16:00] Kallista Destiny: As Illiay said you will have a lot of chaff to seperate.
* [16:00] Ryal Enoch: its hard to prove that 2 people have reported the same bug so each bug may cost payout to many people.
* [16:00] Grid Moderator: if you don't mind the extra jira reading... i doubt anyone will object to it
* [16:00] Ryal Enoch: that...could get expensive
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: well if it gets more people on ADITI I guess that is a win
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: I would rather sift through too many bug reports than not enough
* [16:01] Ryal Enoch: this is tru.
* [16:01] TankMaster Finesmith: {POSTED 18 NOV 2010 3:49 PM
* [16:01] Grid Moderator: the lab needs a good excuse to start printing money again anyways
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: if 100 super awesome bugs were found GREAT!
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: I'd pay for them
* [16:01] Kallista Destiny: Question, finding bust that were fixed, then became unfixed, does that qualify as a new bug?
* [16:01] Ash Qin: [This OH is in fact too late for Europe, by the way.]
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: it'd be one way to tell that that code needed to go back in the oven
* [16:01] Grid Moderator: 10k is 40 bucks oskar...
* [16:01] SMILE: wont: finish
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: that would count Kallista
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: for sure
* [16:01] Kallista Destiny: nods nods
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: bugs would need to be verified against the production code
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: that would be the baseline
* [16:02] Ryal Enoch: man id have 2 jobs,
* [16:02] Ryal Enoch: new car in rl would be nice
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: if it's broke in production it doesn't count
* [16:02] TankMaster Finesmith: so bugs in RC don't count?
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: this would be on ADITI
* [16:02] Kallista Destiny: he's talking about on Aditi
* [16:02] TankMaster Finesmith: ah
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: in a window ro special projects
* [16:02] Grid Moderator: lol it would be nice to fix production bugs too, please :)
* [16:02] Illyria Illyar: why does it not count if it is broke in production but has not been found on ADiti?
* [16:03] Grid Moderator: illyria because they assume they already know about thenm
* [16:03] SMILE: arg,: already not agreeing on the game rules, haha
* [16:03] Rex Cronon: hmm. so somebody can start reading jiras and based on them apply for bounties?
* [16:03] Illyria Illyar: you know what they say about ASSUME....
* [16:03] Kallista Destiny: not yet reported I would think.
* [16:03] Ryal Enoch: also think of the number of users that will FIND them, thats a LOT of money
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: we might try it soon over a weekend or something
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: I will for sure let you guys know
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [16:04] Kallista Destiny: nods nods
* [16:04] SMILE: tks: for precedence, appreciated, lol
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: well that about does it for this week
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: anyone here ever watch Cowboy Bebop?
* [16:04] Kallista Destiny: These are server, not viewer bugs right?
* [16:04] Ryal Enoch: ill be waiting with my giger counter and jungle boots
* [16:04] Grid Moderator: it's a good idea oskar, it could uncover a lotta bugs
* [16:04] Joe from: Chicago: What operating system does the servers run on?
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: every time I think about bounties I remember those two announcers on tv in that show talking about bounty hunters
* [16:04] Kallista Destiny: thank you Oskar
* [16:05] Oskar Linden: server runs on debian
* [16:05] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today
* [16:05] Grid Moderator: i watch it sometimes, tho never seen it in order... does the babe ever get her memory back?
* [16:05] Eddi Decosta: oh debians&
* [16:05] Oskar Linden: yeah. thanks!
* [16:05] Eddi Decosta: ??
* [16:05] Illyria Illyar: thank you
* [16:05] Ash Qin: Who is in charge of the web viewer project please?
* [16:05] Oskar Linden: not sure ash
* [16:05] Rex Cronon: u will need to have list of bugs that have already been found
* [16:05] lisima Elan: oque e aque
* [16:05] lisima Elan: WHAT IS heating
* [16:05] Eddi Decosta: need to install on my p4 3.ghz 
* [16:05] Ash Qin: New item, but dunno which OH I have to attend.
* [16:06] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
* [16:06] Lares Carter: thanks for your time oskar
* [16:06] Oskar Linden: cya guys!