Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-03-04

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on March 4th, 2010
= Agenda =
** We have an email list now!'
*** Sign up here: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta
** 1.36.4 is live now.
*** SVC-4632 - "People getting past Estate and Land bans"
**** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632
*** SVC-5420 - "output to DEBUG_CHANNEL with llSay /me format has been changed and broke content."
**** https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5420
** 1.38 has branched.
*** Guest speaker: Kelly Linden
*** PRIM_TEXT: PRIM_TEXT
*** llGetLinkPrimitiveParams: LlGetLinkPrimitiveParams
*** llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast: LlSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast
*** llSetLinkTextureAnim: LlSetLinkTextureAnim
*** llLinkParticleSystem: LlLinkParticleSystem
** Thou must not fail critical objects
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Aditi/ThouMustNotFail
** Updating the critical items to test page.
** Havok 7 testing is on the calendar (scheduled for Server 1.40, that could mean May)
* Releases
** 1.36.4 should be live on AGNI by now.
** 1.38.0 is coming soon.
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.38
* Any other business
** goes here
** Discuss Land Proposal by Drew and Melfina
*** http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Grid/Land_Proposal
** office hours calender link is missing Beta Server OH
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
*** the link at the top copy and paste this URL into a Google Calendar does not contain Beta Server OH
= Resolved Items =
= Meeting Minutes =
read below. :-p
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for March 4th, 2010:
* 
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: there we go
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: just in time
* [15:01] Lares Carter: heya Oskar :)
* [15:01] Melfina Marshdevil: Nuuu your late :P
* [15:01] Melfina Marshdevil: [15:00:53
* [15:01] Xugu Madison: hey Oskar!
* [15:01] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hmm..i'me stuck at 0,0,0 agaibn
* [15:01] Melfina Marshdevil: 53 seconds late
* [15:01] Ceawlin Steamweaver: If you're 30 seconds late, the pizza is free! :3
* [15:01] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Oskar the Deliverator.
* [15:01] Eddi Decosta: Hi Lil 
* [15:01] Lil Linden: howdy all
* [15:01] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Ah...fixed itself. Good. AT least I wasn't there for the while hours. heheh
* [15:01] Lil Linden: do I look like a cloud to everyone else?
* [15:01] Melfina Marshdevil: hey lil
* [15:02] Eddi Decosta: heya Oskar! 
* [15:02] Melfina Marshdevil: Nop[e you rezzed
* [15:02] Drew Dwi: no, but you do look grey
* [15:02] Lil Linden: needs to get some sun
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: I was just sitting in the bathroom playing poker on my iphone when I saw the time and had to hurry
* [15:02] Lil Linden: um
* [15:02] Ceawlin Steamweaver: lol
* [15:02] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar, LiL. Wlcome Kelly.
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: went all in, won the hand
* [15:02] Lil Linden: hah
* [15:02] Lil Linden: is that a metaphor?
* [15:02] Malarthi Behemoth: That's pretty pro Oskar.
* [15:02] Melfina Marshdevil: yeah the iphone is very... time consuming.
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: alright everyone
* [15:02] Drew Dwi: hmm recent chat toast flickeringg
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: this is gonna be a very packed OH
* [15:03] Melfina Marshdevil: sim going to crash?
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I am going to get started right away
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I'm going to plow through what I have and give the floor to Kelly
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: so there is the agenda
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: we have an email list now!
* [15:03] Eddi Decosta: you have a coffee Oskar? :p
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I'm hoping most of you are already on it
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: sign up there
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: that might be an easier avenue for communication for some of you
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: initially I'll just be duplicating the wiki and sl group comms I put out
* [15:04] Xugu Madison: Join the dark side. Erm. Mailing list. I mean mailing list....
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: hey maestro
* [15:04] Maestro Linden: hello
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: next agenda item 1.36.4
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: it went to the full grid today
* [15:04] Eddi Decosta: heya Maestro, long time no see 
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: the pilot went well
* [15:04] Lil Linden: wow, more lindens show up here than at our all hands meetings
* [15:04] Melfina Marshdevil: estate bans work properly from what Ive seen
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we do pilts a little different now. I documented that in a notice to the group
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: howdy Eddi
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: pilots i meant
* [15:05] Drew Dwi: \o/
* [15:05] Drew Dwi: estate ban fix
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so that's good
* [15:05] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Estate manager are cheering about that fix. :-)
* [15:05] Sodovan Torok: lol Lil
* [15:05] Jonathan Yap: Are the estate bans working with the current list of names or do people have to be re-banned for it to take effect?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: nothing new for havok 7 or the failed objects lists
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: should work for current list
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: but let me know if that is not the case please
* [15:06] Text Object: Line 1<1.000000, 1.000000, 1.000000>0.000000
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: for any other business I will discuss land testing with drew and melfina privately
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: and I added this OH to the wiki list
* [15:06] Melfina Marshdevil: kk
* [15:06] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Now, is there a way to determin if an acount been toasted by LL so the ban list can be purge of those entry to make room for new ones?
* [15:06] Psi Merlin: Did you use the Pilot region list for Tuesday's roll Lil?
* [15:06] Drew Dwi: it needs to be updated (the wiki) against the internal list
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: we did psi
* [15:07] Lil Linden: I sure did
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we have an internal list
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: plus the external one
* [15:07] Xugu Madison: ATechwolf, try searching for them on search.secondlife.com perhaps?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: so onthe topic of 1.38
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: we have rolled most of ADITI to 1.38 and area already seeing good bugs coming in
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: lil and kelly can explain why the release notes are not ready :-)
* [15:07] Melfina Marshdevil: nasty bug :P
* [15:07] Psi Merlin: Strange - Snark didn't get restarted, which is unusual.
* [15:07] Kelly Linden: oskars fault
* [15:08] Lil Linden: +1
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: and perhaps give a more accurate time estimate of their arrival than I gave
* [15:08] Lil Linden: They're ready-ish, they just need to be cleaned up
* [15:08] Lil Linden: so that they're purdy for y'all to look at
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: if you want to blame me kelly fine. I am sure the residents will find plenty to blame that is your fault once more testing is done :-)
* [15:08] Kelly Linden: \o/
* [15:08] Sodovan Torok: rofl
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so on that topic here is Kelly Linde
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: n
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: to talk about the scripts related changes
* [15:09] Eddi Decosta: blame you cause you dont give me my coffee , yes! :p
* [15:09] Kelly Linden: I think that bug melfina is related to how we fixed the mono-sim stalls. Gonna have babbage take a closer look
* [15:09] Eddi Decosta: hehe
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: if you have questions for him please private IM them to me ok?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: I'll ask them in order
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: when it comes to Q/A time
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: ok kelly
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: welcome and thanks for coming
* [15:09] MartinRJ Fayray: Hello
* [15:09] Lil Linden: *applause*
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: and hello to gayathriu
* [15:09] Malarthi Behemoth: claps
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: -u
* [15:09] Melfina Marshdevil: Here is a warm welcome from all the hardcore fans of oskar linden :3
* [15:09] Kelly Linden: I don't have anything specific to say first really. The new functions are on the agenda ..... I can just answer questions if there are any.
* [15:10] ATechwolf Foxclaw: No working voice here, Please keep that in mind.
* [15:10] Eddi Decosta: hi Rakesh
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: can you give an overview of the changes kelly?
* [15:10] Gnome Inkpen: HELLLO!
* [15:10] Kelly Linden: Sure.
* [15:10] Kelly Linden: llGetLinkPrimitiveParams to get the prim params of linked prims
* [15:10] Rakesh Linden: hieddi
* [15:10] Kelly Linden: llSetLinkPrimitiveParamsFast to set primitive params with no delay
* [15:11] Kelly Linden: llSetLinkTextureAnim to do llSetTextureAnim for any linked prim
* [15:11] Eddi Decosta: yay, he said witouth "e" nice! 
* [15:11] Entering god: mode, level 200
* [15:11] Kelly Linden: llLinkParticleSystem to do llParticleSystem on any linked prim
* [15:11] Master Starship: smiles
* [15:12] Kelly Linden: PRIM_TEXT a new primitive parameter that works in all prim param functions to set or get the floating text.
* [15:12] Kelly Linden: The other new feature is the ability to see how much memory scripts are using on parcels.
* [15:12] Eddi Decosta: prim_textt?
* [15:12] Eddi Decosta: -t
* [15:12] Eddi Decosta: lol
* [15:12] Kelly Linden: PRIM_TEXT
* [15:12] Maestro Linden: the same text as you'd get with llSetText()
* [15:13] Eddi Decosta: okey
* [15:13] Jonathan Yap: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_TEX
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: T
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: T
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: T
* [15:13] Jonathan Yap: dang
* [15:13] Xugu Madison: that's a point, how do we see how much memory they're using?
* [15:13] Ima Mechanique: shoulda been PRIM_FLOATY ;-)
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PRIM_TEXAS
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: there's an issue with copying text from the new chat-windows
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: the last letter's always missing
* [15:13] MartinRJ Fayray: :/
* [15:13] Kelly Linden: In About Land there is a Script Info button in the bottom left of the General tab.
* [15:14] Kelly Linden: On viewer 2 viewers
* [15:14] Kelly Linden: (sorry, only works on viewer 2 viewers)
* [15:14] Helena Lycia: This new Fast function, wll all existing actions work with it?
* [15:14] Maestro Linden: the "script info" button is in the Appearance floater as well
* [15:14] Xugu Madison: Nice!
* [15:14] Jonathan Yap: Sample image 
* [15:14] Helena Lycia: Even things like moving and rotation?
* [15:14] Maestro Linden: to show script usage in attachments
* [15:14] Kitty Barnett: bah... can't see it from other sims :p
* [15:14] Xugu Madison: Really appreciate the new functions, BTW, Kelly
* [15:14] Eddi Decosta: Kelly, yeah cause the phenom script are totaly buggy whit this hovertext on v2 ..
* [15:14] Skills Hak: oh hi
* [15:14] Kelly Linden: Helena: the Fast function is identical to llSetLinkPrimitiveParams in all ways except for the script sleep.
* [15:15] Helena Lycia: Coool
* [15:15] Gnome Inkpen: Hi THAR Skillz.
* [15:15] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: *cry* too late :( ... can someone give me a summary in IM of what I missed please?
* [15:15] Skills Hak: i had issues getting here
* [15:15] Skills Hak: at least with 2.0
* [15:15] Skills Hak: says its hardware banned
* [15:15] Lonely Bluebird: Uh oh skills
* [15:15] Gnome Inkpen: Eeek.
* [15:15] Skills Hak: xD
* [15:15] Gnome Inkpen: BAD avatar, bad!
* [15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: lol hardware bans are still a joke tho.
* [15:16] Maestro Linden: debugging: this is the agenda: 
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: you can read the transcipt afterwards
* [15:16] ATechwolf Foxclaw: playes with the new script reporting.
* [15:16] Xugu Madison: Kelly, any chance of a llLinkTargetOmega() in a future release, BTW? :)
* [15:16] Xugu Madison: or PRIM_OMEGA, either is good
* [15:16] Kelly Linden: It would probably take the form of PRIM_TARGET_OMEGA
* [15:17] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly, I brought this up at Babbage's OH, but I was curious to see what you would have to say on the subject. Would you be willing to comment on ? (llsetObjectScale) and the things brought up there? I also second llLinkTargetOmega, hehe, that's one source of multiple scripts for me.
* [15:17] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-5328|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-5328]]: 
* [15:17] JIRA-helper (left: hip): [#SVC-5328
* [15:17] Kelly Linden: but it is kind of low on the priority list I think.
* [15:17] Psi Merlin: Hmm About land: "Memory used: 7680kb out of 0 kb; -7680 kb available" !
* [15:17] Eddi Decosta: SET_SMILE(take snapshot)
* [15:17] Maestro Linden: Sebastean: with these new functions, it's trivial to do your basic resizing function in 1 script
* [15:17] Melfina Marshdevil: max kb is set to 0 or unlimited im guessing
* [15:17] Xugu Madison: Seb; I believe scale functions can now be done fairly sensibly with llGetLinkPrimitiveParams, so that's what we'll be using
* [15:17] Kelly Linden: Sebastion I know it isn't as great to have to walk all the prims, but since you can with no sleeps it really does get you most of the way there so priority for llSetObjectScale is very low
* [15:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: nods
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: Melfina: that's a viewer bug (0KB total)
* [15:18] Maestro Linden: and it's been reported :)
* [15:18] ATechwolf Foxclaw: OOo...I just click "My avatar" and I see all the scripts I'me running.
* [15:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Xugu, that was the proposed solution in the JIRA, but the poster had a different opinion because of the amount of space and script work required.
* [15:18] Kelly Linden: We don't have limits yet, the viewer is supposed to recognize that and just show how much is used (drop the 'out of' text) but doesn't.
* [15:19] Melfina Marshdevil: What are the exact limits being discussed right now?
* [15:19] Xugu Madison: Seb; don't think it's a lot of space, but willing to accept the code is fiddly to write...
* [15:19] Kelly Linden: Instead it shows that the total allowed is -1 (which rounds to 0kb)
* [15:19] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Mine is stuck at "Retrieving information"
* [15:19] Xugu Madison: Melfina; I believe the intent is to give residents time to sort out their worst scripts, then look at actual usage...
* [15:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Depends on the size of the script you're working on ;) If you have a large script already, it is a lot of space, but really I just wanted to see what Kelly's reasons were.
* [15:20] Kelly Linden: Honestly the highest priority for efficient scripts was *not* things that bloated a single script, it was reasons you needed to have many scripts.
* [15:20] Eddi Decosta: gave you Snapshot(ADITI)_002.
* [15:20] Drew Dwi: resizers >.>
* [15:20] Kelly Linden: All things that cause you to *need* many scripts are higher priority than *anything* that just bloats a single script.
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: oh, here's something for you guys to play with
* [15:21] Kelly Linden: The new Fast function and GetLink (which also has no delay) function change it so you don't need multiple scripts.
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: do you know the Kart 1.0 in Library?
* [15:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly have linked sound functions been considered? I know that many sound systems, including my own, hav eto use many scripts.
* [15:21] Melfina Marshdevil: I know why its unlimited memory right now but what are the limits going to be for like per sqm or prim however its gauged
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: I modified it to use only 1 script (instead of 11), using these new functions
* [15:21] ATechwolf Foxclaw: resiser are a good expameple. Fast fireing guns are anther.
* [15:21] SuesseMaus Hotaling: hi all xD
* [15:21] Kelly Linden: Sebastion I believe it is on the pjira.
* [15:21] Gooden Uggla: resize and recolor = teh debbil
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: maestro. put a copy version of the kart for people to grab
* [15:21] Xugu Madison: Melfina, I believe it's considered too early even to estimate
* [15:21] Kelly Linden: melfina we are still working on that.
* [15:22] Melfina Marshdevil: alright are there plans to expand estate based tools kelly for the script limits like maybe a script bonus like object bonus?
* [15:23] Maestro Linden: alright guys, it's free to copy and is set to L$0
* [15:23] Maestro Linden: should be fullperm too
* [15:23] Kelly Linden: script bonus follows object bonus right now.
* [15:23] Lares Carter: Kelly, does Parcel Script Memory Info only show up for land i own?
* [15:23] Kelly Linden: if there is a need we could separate them.
* [15:23] Melfina Marshdevil: thats acually makes me really happy
* [15:23] Kelly Linden: the details only show up for land you own or can manage.
* [15:23] Kelly Linden: the summary shows up for any parcel you are on
* [15:23] Maestro Linden: (note that if you drive this kart into a 1.36 region, which doesn't support the new LSL functions, it crashes)
* [15:24] Ima Mechanique: where is it Maestro?
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: scripts should be based on land amount in the sim, like prims are
* [15:24] Kelly Linden: gooden: they are
* [15:24] Maestro Linden: 3m behind me
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: cool, i was worried about that
* [15:24] Lares Carter: Okay, is it limited to one parcel only? I before noticed that it showed up for the whole sim instead of a selected parcel only.
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* [15:24] Eddi Decosta: oups sorry
* [15:24] Kelly Linden: gooden: and will be. and just like with prims where estate owners can set a bonus (that still has a hard cap sim wide) the scripts do the same
* [15:24] Kitty Barnett: has there been any discussion on changing "no modify" to no longer prevent scripts from being deleted from prims yet? if that's not there then a whole lot of stuff is just broken and only good for the trash
* [15:24] Xugu Madison: Also, how are those class 6 sims coming along? :)
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: I'm not sure Lares on the behavior if you own the sim. It hink maybe details always shows you the whole sim (but you can sort by parcel)
* [15:25] Melfina Marshdevil: well the hard cap was always in place before right?
* [15:25] Eddi Decosta: Maestro, i can test with my tiny? 
* [15:25] Maestro Linden: sure eddi, just replace the animation insdie with a nice tiny sit one
* [15:25] Drew Dwi: is there any discussion on the estate tools disable object command being re-enabled and possibly applying it to users ? I know it has the capability to break content atm
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: kitty I'd bring that to babbage's office hours if you could.
* [15:25] Kitty Barnett: thankies :)
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: there has been no hard cap on script memory to date (still isn't for now)
* [15:26] Eddi Decosta: hehe, okey right cause some thing are never created for tiny, and i protest ;)
* [15:26] Melfina Marshdevil: so thats how sims could crash
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: I don't know drew dwi
* [15:26] Xugu Madison: Kelly, are we likely to get variable max per-script memory when limits come in?
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: That is a tricky one
* [15:26] Melfina Marshdevil: also if a script runs out of memory how can a script expect that?
* [15:26] Gooden Uggla: the new growth biz will be detection and ejection of over-scripted avs
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: *hint*
* [15:27] Jonathan Yap: Xugu, Babbage has been talking about that
* [15:27] Xugu Madison: Melfina, individual scripts can already run out of memory. I think it shows as a stack-heap collision....
* [15:27] Kitty Barnett: since there's a per-avatar limit you can't be "overscripted" :o
* [15:27] Kelly Linden: Xugu: before enforcement you will be able to set mono scripts to be *smaller* than normal at least. We can't allow uncapped *bigger* until we have limits though.
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: actually, estate owners will want to define that
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: i know i do...
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: you will not be able to define the per avatar limit
* [15:28] Drew Dwi: different limits per different estates wouldn't be ideal for content creators
* [15:28] Kitty Barnett: Gooden-doesn't matter... unless things changed the avatar pool is separate from the sim land pool?
* [15:28] Fractured Crystal: sets memory bonus to 0.0 >_>
* [15:28] Gooden Uggla: i'm fairly certain that can be scripted tho
* [15:28] Xugu Madison: Kelly, cool. Obviously that's another useful thing to reducing cases where several scripts are used instead of a single larger script, and you end up with communication overhead
* [15:28] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: estate managers please! So many estate managers that rent a sim from an "owner" instead of from LL
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: everything that works for estate owners also works for estate managers
* [15:29] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: weew, thanks :)
* [15:29] Hypatia Callisto: good good good
* [15:29] Gooden Uggla: wait... you're saying that somehow the amount of script time on an avatar no longer will effect sim performance?
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: my fingers get tired if I have to type 'owners or managers or anyone with power over the land' every time
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: script time is separate from script memory, but avatars will have a max script memory.
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: cut and paste kelly. or abbreviate OOMOAWPOTL
* [15:29] Sodovan Torok: hands Kelly a chat macro...
* [15:29] RedMokum Bravin: Yes, typing macros in new viewers would be a good idea.
* [15:30] Melfina Marshdevil: typing macros = gestures
* [15:30] Sodovan Torok: :D
* [15:30] Gnome Inkpen: RedMokum, THAR be gesturez :D
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: speaking of owners, there's a group permission associated with an avatar being able to view script details on group-owned parcels
* [15:30] RedMokum Bravin: More like Word I mean. And a find/replace function in notecards and scripts. Try to do that with a gesture.
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: scripts have find/replace
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: what server version maestro?
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: the name of the permission escapes me right now, but I believe it's the same one that allows a group member to view other parcel details
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: sounds awesome!
* [15:31] Melfina Marshdevil: ok so again I dont think this was answered. If your avatar runs out of memory how do scripts know that. and how do scripts react (disable/etc)
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: 1.38 gooden
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: oh?
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: How script memory works is that what counts is what is reserved, not what is used.
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: any idea where on the UI it is?
* [15:32] Kelly Linden: So mono scripts count as 64k right now.
* [15:32] Kelly Linden: If attaching an object or adding a script to it would bump you over the limit then you won't be able to do it.
* [15:32] Maestro Linden: Gooden: about land-> script info, in viewer 2.0 beta
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: meh
* [15:32] Gooden Uggla: ok, thanks
* [15:32] Melfina Marshdevil: object attachment will fail?
* [15:32] Kelly Linden: correct
* [15:33] Melfina Marshdevil: or adding that script into your attachment will fail also?
* [15:33] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly, will we be getting newer/better functions to calculate the max memory our script is capable of using, for example, to better predict how much memory we should request?
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: both
* [15:33] Eddi Decosta: i can see this later, cause now im with emerald viewer
* [15:33] Xugu Madison: any sort of ETA for 1.38 hitting live? By which I mean, does April sound credible?
* [15:33] Drew Dwi: that would be ideal, assuming the error message is clear to the user
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: April Xugu
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: is the plan
* [15:33] Ima Mechanique: fails with a message I hope, not silently
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: april is our target right now.
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: first week
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: yes ima
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: with a pilot the week before
* [15:33] RedMokum Bravin: Not on the 1st please.
* [15:33] Eddi Decosta: Oskar, do you know the date realese for the second beta public?
* [15:33] Lil Linden: will brb
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: the pilot is on my rez day I think .....
* [15:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'd rather not have to depend on trial and error with my products, having it work for me, but then breaking for a customer who uses it strangely because I didn't request enough memory.
* [15:34] Xugu Madison: I'm not going to get any sleep for the next month, so many scripts to update & test! Still, good in the long tem
* [15:34] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: is distracted by the "police radio" sounds... can't find who does it though :/
* [15:34] Eddi Decosta: release*
* [15:34] Drew Dwi: thats viewer eddi, this is server stuff
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: the 1st is when we are upgrading mysql
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: ;-)
* [15:34] Kelly Linden: or close
* [15:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: doesn't know if KElly saw his question on better memory functions.
* [15:35] Xugu Madison: While you're upgrading MySQL, can we get SQL support in LSL? *duck*
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: There are none currently planned Sebastean but that could change when we get to implementing "small scripts" (to allow mono scripts to set their memory size)
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: No Xugu.
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: 
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: >:(
* [15:35] Ima Mechanique: Sebastean, he said both
* [15:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: nods - "Small scripts were what I had in mind."
* [15:35] Gooden Uggla: i'll settle for having an event with more than 25 people that doesn't freeze every time someone else TPs in...
* [15:35] Gooden Uggla: can't wait...
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: Xugu made kelly mad
* [15:35] Hypatia Callisto: amen to that Gooden
* [15:35] Xugu Madison: Sorry :(
* [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: lol for now I have a simple php script that relays sql querys for storage
* [15:35] Lonely Bluebird: Hey mysql in LSL sounds great when can we expect that/
* [15:35] Drew Dwi: lol
* [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: I execute mysql as web commands
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: nice lonely
* [15:35] Kelly Linden: there are some fixes in 1.38 for mono script rezing
* [15:35] Xugu Madison: I know, I know, use HTTP. I just like winding up Lindens, sorry
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: With PRIM_TEXT (set to invisible) you now have small buckets of persistent state for each prim in an object.
* [15:36] Drew Dwi: sims take a huge hit each time someone TP's in for sure
* [15:36] Sodovan Torok: Xugu, don't break their springs!
* [15:36] Xugu Madison: is going to wake up to find all his clothes retextured isn't he...
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: no more winding of kelly's springs
* [15:36] Sebastean Steamweaver: Jonathan - I've already made use of that personally. It's very handy. it's about the closest thing we have to persistent data right now.
* [15:36] Kelly Linden: xugu I thought that just happened on login randomly
* [15:37] Sodovan Torok: Kelly -- can you elaborate on the mono fixes in 1.38?
* [15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: lol if lsl had mysql I would laugh if this worked.
* [15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: SELECT * FROM assets WHERE owner_uuid="0e346d8b-4433-4d66-a6b0-fd37083abc4c"
* [15:37] Kelly Linden: it is hard in text lol sodova
* [15:37] Xugu Madison: Kelly; I did spend 3 days half-naked after a baking accident, but typically no...
* [15:37] Kelly Linden: melfina it wouldn't
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: just retextured Xugu? it's easier just to do the 'emperor' fix. that way you looked clothed but everyone else sees you naked.
* [15:37] Fractured Crystal: you didn't select a database :|
* [15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: lol I know i'm being silly
* [15:37] Kelly Linden: sodovan: We implemented 'domain affinity' and 'don't try and load assemblies that are already loaded'
* [15:38] Xugu Madison: Oskar: erm, please hold, I need to log an alt in quickly! :)
* [15:38] Kelly Linden: The latter is the real problem - a bug in mono that causes something that should be free (asking mono to load an assembly it already has) to stall for a long time instead
* [15:38] Gooden Uggla: kelly has mono had any progress with their garbage collector?
* [15:38] Sodovan Torok: kk, I can see that helping a lot.
* [15:38] Kelly Linden: The former just makes the latter more effective since we have multiple domains
* [15:38] Sodovan Torok: aaaah, assembly reloading stall... that explains a lot.
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: Gooden: considering we are still on 1.2.6 right now ......
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: lol nm, still the boehm
* [15:39] Kelly Linden: Although this week we've been working on 2.6.1 some so ..... some day it will be better. :p
* [15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: Kelly: did the disable scripts command of EMs get some improvement? can it elimitate scripts from memory now?
* [15:40] Lil Linden: returns
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: Melfina - it has had no work to my knowledge.
* [15:40] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I'd really like it if an avie would look gray directly after a Teleport, if the last bake isn't available yet (even if that bake wasn't even uploaded yet). Thus: rebake --> on same sim: old clothes remain till uploaded/downloaded, but immediate TP results in gray avie until uploaded/downloaded.
* [15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: damn :P
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: something in my gut tells me there's a relationship there, that because of the weird way that GC works, when it's fixed things will improve dramatically
* [15:41] Sodovan Torok: thinking the stall is related to the boehm gc?
* [15:41] Kelly Linden: I think there are probably a few benefits we will see when we move to 2.6.1
* [15:41] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly, is it safe for us to code with these new functions in our products in expectation for release, or is there anything we should be wary of/that's subject to change?
* [15:41] Sodovan Torok: of course, a stall of 20ms in almost all desktop and even server scenarios wouldn't be noticed :D
* [15:42] Kelly Linden: sebastean everything is subject to change.
* [15:42] Melfina Marshdevil: so do we have any other lsl functions that have been added?
* [15:42] Melfina Marshdevil: secretly
* [15:42] Kelly Linden: but those are relatively set. The more people overhype the data storage capability of PRIM_TEXT though the more I think about not allowing it on GET
* [15:42] Xugu Madison: llWin()
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: llGiveCake()
* [15:43] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm just wondering how "set in stone" things are. I'm using llSEtlinkPrimitiveParamsFast in several of my products now, ut if it's changed to have a delay on some things, it would break what I'm hoping for.
* [15:43] Kelly Linden: llKickOskar
* [15:43] Sodovan Torok: llGodLikeNoLieCake()
* [15:43] Xugu Madison: llGiveAllMyL$ToKelly()
* [15:43] Kelly Linden: it won't be changed to have a delay
* [15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: llCompileAsC#();
* [15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: XDF
* [15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: XD
* [15:43] Sebastean Steamweaver: Overhype?
* [15:43] Kelly Linden: Melfina we are using //c# right now
* [15:44] Sodovan Torok: O.o
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: nuuus I wanna make my own C# code with fill access to the internal API :)
* [15:44] MartinRJ Fayray: llPleaseAssignAllThe50BugsIFiledAboutViewer2()
* [15:44] Sodovan Torok: xD
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: fukk*
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: FULL*
* [15:44] Sodovan Torok: o.O
* [15:44] Xugu Madison: fetches Melfina a new keyboard
* [15:44] Kelly Linden: Melfina: well, thats kinda what we have right now which is why it isn't public. That and it crashes the sim constantly.
* [15:44] Sodovan Torok: fetches Melfine new fingers
* [15:45] Kitty Barnett: release that and it will make the freezes not seem so bad anymore :p
* [15:45] Xugu Madison: Been tracking some of the C# stuff on the Moonlight mailing list. Looks like they're making slow but steady progress. Babbage's OH Wednesday 3am if you want an official update, though!
* [15:45] Ima Mechanique: think Melfina *might* have been right first time
* [15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: LindenLab.SecondLife.Die();
* [15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: :P
* [15:46] Ima Mechanique: llSimArmageddon()
* [15:46] Xugu Madison: Reminded of 
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: kelly. how can people help qa these changes?
* [15:47] Jonathan Yap: Kelly, is there a large cost associated with doing a Get on Prim_Text?
* [15:47] Eddi Decosta: no llregion(snow_storm)
* [15:47] Melfina Marshdevil: try and crash a sim using them in a while loop?
* [15:47] Helena Lycia: Is there a releae date for 1.38.0 yet?
* [15:47] Kelly Linden: jonathan no
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: Helena we mentioend that already. yes. april, first week
* [15:47] Helena Lycia: Ah sorry - I missed it... Thank you
* [15:47] Xugu Madison: would just call it April-ish
* [15:47] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Is there a list somewhere with the new script functions?
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: speaking of bugs, there are 2 LSL bugs reported against 1.38 already: SVC-5470 and SVC-5482
* [15:47] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5470: 
* [#SVC-5470] Granted Permission: lost on attachments after Region Crossing or TP.
* [15:47] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5482: 
* [#SVC-5482] states with: events in queue halts script.
* [15:48] Eddi Decosta: hmmm, this could be a great idia, weater activs on all regions :p
* [15:48] Kelly Linden: Oskar: The mono fixes probably need the most attention - just making sure scripts still work. :p
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: debugging: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:48] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: txs
* [15:48] Kelly Linden: SVC-5470 is fixed (internally)
* [15:48] Text Object: Line 1<1.000000, 1.000000, 1.000000>0.000000
* [15:48] Xugu Madison: About half my product lineup is affected by the changes, so I'll be around the sandboxes breaking stuff....
* [15:49] Kelly Linden: SVC-5482 is getting looked at now. (just got handed that one about a half hour before this meeting I think)
* [15:49] Techwolf Lupindo: I'me naked.....*digs in inventroy*
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: hmmm that explains why my AO spazzzed out coming across the sim line
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: so the biggest help would just to have people run their existing scripts and look for odd behaviour
* [15:49] Kelly Linden: yup.
* [15:49] Kelly Linden: watch for script crashes
* [15:49] Kelly Linden: on mono scripts
* [15:49] Xugu Madison: Oskar: _unexpected_ odd behavior :)
* [15:49] Kelly Linden: lsl is largely untouched.
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: good point xugu
* [15:50] Gooden Uggla: no kidding, i'm surrounded by "odd" all day...
* [15:50] Kitty Barnett: is there any particular reason why scripts are turned off in Lusk? :o
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: anyone have anything else while kelly is here?
* [15:50] Oskar Linden: I'll fix that kitty
* [15:51] Xugu Madison: Thanks again for the new functions Kelly!
* [15:51] Kitty Barnett: thankies, Oskar :) easier to build on land I own than finding a random sim :o
* [15:51] Kelly Linden: :)
* [15:51] Techwolf Lupindo: This is wiered. I just logged into here with 2.0 and I don't have anything worn, not anything, inclding the ones you can't un-wear.
* [15:51] Oskar Linden: I am sure there are plenty of areas of kelly's brain you've not picked yet
* [15:51] Ima Mechanique: Kelly, can we expect any more functions fromt he low hanging fruit list?
* [15:51] MartinRJ Fayray: well the get-text feature in lsl opens a door for very very bad hacks
* [15:51] Melfina Marshdevil: Ohhhh kelly. can we hold you personally responsible if the grid fails because of new LSL bugs?
* [15:52] Xugu Madison: Melfina, nah, if it takes down the grid we escape blame to Babbage
* [15:52] Kelly Linden: Ima: I'm working from the efficient script backlog / pjira when I get the time (rare) but not the 'low hanging fruit' list.
* [15:52] Xugu Madison: ....on account of he's not here to defend himself....
* [15:52] Kelly Linden: Melfina - it wouldn't be the first time.
* [15:52] Sebastean Steamweaver: Just a quick question - I got DCed. I can understand the desire not to overladen PRIM_TEXT by using llGLPP, and I definitely don't want to endanger it of being removed from llGLPP - please don't count this against that. I am curious what the expected use of it would be, though?
* [15:52] Melfina Marshdevil: hehe :P
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: so as soon as lil and kelly get the release notes ready I will email the server-beta mailing list
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: make sure you're on it
* [15:53] Kelly Linden: Sebastion - I have several items that have text on multiple prims, such as score boards and similar.
* [15:53] Kelly Linden: The intended use is to be able to manage those objects w/o a script in each prim.
* [15:53] Melfina Marshdevil: hey oskar me and drew can bother you back on agni after this right?
* [15:53] Xugu Madison: Seb; a lot of HUDs, too. The Huddle EZ Animator or whatever it's called, for one...
* [15:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: So, "managing" would include being able to see what was already on the prim, yes?
* [15:54] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Kelly: Won't 1.38 have a function to terminate/end a script (such that it is garanteed that it frees it's memory usage)?
* [15:54] Sebastean Steamweaver: My question was more specifically focused on why getting was allowed.
* [15:54] Xugu Madison: Gyah, before I forget; Kelly, has anyone pointed out you need one script per resident for playing anims?
* [15:54] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I thought that llEndScript() was a quite popular request.
* [15:54] Kelly Linden: strictly speaking for efficient scripts we want to be able to do what we can today with multiple script with only a single script. Since you can't get floating text today, it isn't strictly a part of that mandate.
* [15:54] Kelly Linden: Xugu yes, it is on my internal list.
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: llRemoveInventory(llGetScriptName())
* [15:54] Xugu Madison: Kelly, great
* [15:55] Xugu Madison: that's the other half of my product lineup....
* [15:55] Kelly Linden: DebuggingSLviewer: that functionality is not yet on the roadmap.
* [15:55] Kelly Linden: Xugu: it is on my list as: shit, this is gonna be hard.
* [15:55] Kelly Linden: so, um, no eta.
* [15:55] Xugu Madison: Kelly, eh, as long as you're aware
* [15:55] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Maestro: yes, but 1) never was clear/garanteed that that really frees the memory :p, 2) that deletes the script! The idea is to free only the memory and restart it by resetting the script.
* [15:56] Kelly Linden: deleting the inventory WILL free the memory
* [15:56] Sodovan Torok: And restarting allocates the memory all over again.
* [15:56] Kelly Linden: but I think its pretty much the only way gauranteed to do so.
* [15:56] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Hence the need for llEndScript ...
* [15:56] Sodovan Torok: A nice-to-have would be to detect crashed scripts and force a restart from lsl
* [15:57] Melfina Marshdevil: cant you listen on debug and llResetOther...?
* [15:57] Kelly Linden: script errors are not normal chat
* [15:57] Kelly Linden: I believe.
* [15:57] Kelly Linden: can they be heard by other scripts?
* [15:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: They are here, actually
* [15:57] Ima Mechanique: llResetOther doesn't work on crashed scripts
* [15:57] Sodovan Torok: wot Ima sed
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: yeah, actually I have some automated tests which rely listening to another script on DEBUG_CHANNEL
* [15:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: They can be heard by other scripts, as long as the other script is in a separate object
* [15:58] Maestro Linden: yeah in another prim too, I guess
* [15:58] Sodovan Torok: and llGetScriptState doesn't report crshed.
* [15:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: Object/prim yes
* [15:58] Techwolf Lupindo: Sodovan, A script can listedn on the debug to detect crashed scripts and reset thtem.
* [15:59] Sodovan Torok: True. By reloading a script into the prim, ya.
* [15:59] Xugu Madison: I have to run. Thanks for hosting Oskar, thanks for coming Kelly, everyone, it's been really interesting!
* [15:59] Melfina Marshdevil: oskar is typing the meeting is over.
* [15:59] Melfina Marshdevil: I know it
* [15:59] Sodovan Torok: lol
* [15:59] Ima Mechanique: noooo we have one more minute
* [15:59] Sodovan Torok: we have strayed too far off the path :D
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: I forgot to mention Maestro's role in all this. Maestro has done most of the QA work on scripts with kelly to get to this point. He's the point man for qa on 1.38. He'll be at these OH's at least until 1.38 ships to help answer any questions.
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: (yes maestro. that is me telling you that now ;-)
* [16:00] Hypatia Callisto: thanks :)
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: kelly said he was willing to spend at least three hours with all of you
* [16:00] Kelly Linden: :O
* [16:00] Sodovan Torok: remembers getting the news of new assignments by public announcements :D
* [16:00] Drew Dwi: lol
* [16:01] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: We can continue
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: so if you have more questions he's got nowhere better to be
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [16:01] Sodovan Torok: yay!
* [16:01] Sodovan Torok: we gots questions!
* [16:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly, could I IM you really quick?
* [16:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: I say "really quick" too much ;P
* [16:01] Kelly Linden: real quick, sure
* [16:01] Gooden Uggla: watches kelly slip a banana peel under oskar's chair
* [16:01] Kelly Linden: :p
* [16:01] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Kelly: Why is an LLEndScript "not on the roadmap", that sound as if you have an argument that it's not needed, or not even interesting to have.
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: actually I think you all broke kelly
* [16:01] Melfina Marshdevil: just IM then normally they run off too quickly for them to respond
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: we should give him a break
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: we definitely need to give kelly a big thanks for taking an hour out of his day to talk to you guys
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: thanks kelly!
* [16:02] Kelly Linden: yw
* [16:02] Jonathan Yap: If a script is nomod and it ends yourself, then what? Impossible to restart?
* [16:02] Jonathan Yap: *itself
* [16:02] Master Starship: if no one objects I will do a test on how the mono bug
* [16:02] Hypatia Callisto: thanks Kelly :)
* [16:02] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: you can reset a nomod too
* [16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: thanks kelly for destorying *cough* making LSL better!
* [16:03] Lil Linden: awwww
* [16:03] Lares Carter: thanks Kelly :)
* [16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: :P
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: wow melf
* [16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: thansk they are awesome changes
* [16:03] Hypatia Callisto: indeed
* [16:03] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Kelly: Why is an LLEndScript "not on the roadmap", that sound as if you have an argument that it's not needed, or not even interesting to have.
* [16:04] Ima Mechanique: Debugging. There is a moritorium on NEW LSL work until after these memory changes are dealt with at the very least
* [16:05] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: But that function has EVERYTHING to do with memory (limits).
* [16:05] Drew Dwi: and versioning yea?
* [16:05] Melfina Marshdevil: well I remember hearing that after this server is put in that lsl is frozen from any changes for awhile.
* [16:05] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I'd like to know/understand the reason for not adding it. Seems simple enough to implement.
* [16:06] Melfina Marshdevil: I dont think it is simple because then I would think thats how script disable should work.
* [16:07] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: Kelly?
* [16:07] Sodovan Torok: Debugging: A runnable script in a prim consists of a VM, possibly linked to the text asset that is the source code. The VM contains the byte code plus state. So what you want is to remove the script (that being the VM) in your EndScript function.
* [16:07] Kelly Linden: it isn't as simple as you think
* [16:07] Maestro Linden: gave you brb.
* [16:07] Sodovan Torok: Doing that would require that prim inventory now link directly to the text asset and not the VM asset.
* [16:07] Kelly Linden: it has larger implications than you imply, it involves a significant amount of work.
* [16:07] Sodovan Torok: Then to make the script runnable again, a recompile is required.
* [16:08] Kelly Linden: and may break lots of things in interesting ways
* [16:08] Kelly Linden: In other words it is expensive.
* [16:08] Melfina Marshdevil: yeah if it was simple then I think it would of been long ago because thats how it would work.
* [16:08] Sodovan Torok: very interestng ways :D
* [16:08] Copy failed: because you lack permission to copy the object 'Object'.
* [16:08] Can't create: object because 
* the parcel is full.
* [16:09] Kelly Linden: sodovan is pretty close too - right now every script in an object is in sim memory and that is what we are counting.
* [16:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Kelly, I've been saving my "small scripts" to LSL - is that a valid way to save on memory usage?
* [16:09] Kelly Linden: changing it so that scripts can be in objects and not in memory at all (which is the only way it could do what you want) is a significant change
* [16:09] Gooden Uggla: requests no new things get broken till SVC-3895 is fixed please
* [16:09] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3895: 
* [#SVC-3895] Mono scripted: object cripples sim FPS
* [16:09] Eddi Decosta: lol
* [16:09] Kelly Linden: it involves changing when and how it is fetched from the asset server and how other scripts interact with those inventory items
* [16:10] Lil Linden: Hm.
* [16:10] Kelly Linden: gooden that should be largely fixed in 1.38 right now.
* [16:10] Lil Linden: framed.
* [16:10] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I'd think that all you have to do is kill the VM, and when the script is reset to use the UUID (the only thing left) to get it's byte code from the asset server again-- as if someone dropped it in the prim from his inventory.
* [16:10] Lil Linden: escapes signage
* [16:10] Drew Dwi: anyone else on viewer 2 seeing the buy option twice on Maestro's cart?
* [16:10] Kelly Linden: sebastean unfortunately yes. It is not the behavior we like, we would rather it make more sense to move to mono so we could deprecate LSL but that obviously isn't happening any time soon.
* [16:10] Gooden Uggla: kelly, i have love and respect for everyone working on it... but i'll believe it when i see it on one of my own sims...
* [16:10] Hypatia Callisto: grin, I got a picture already :P
* [16:11] Kelly Linden: debugging, it is a highly interconnected system, it is definitely no where near that easy.
* [16:11] Kelly Linden: gooden :)
* [16:11] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: If you think that is expensive, you could have llEndScript() delay the script for 10 seconds before deleting itself.
* [16:11] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: during which a reset would be ignored.
* [16:11] Kelly Linden: I also know someone that is making other non-mono related fixes to sim crossing and performance issues. no eta at all on those though.
* [16:12] Kelly Linden: debugging: armchair developers are difficult to talk with. I wish I could just show you the code and say 'here do it'
* [16:12] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I wish that too
* [16:12] Sodovan Torok: likes his archair :D
* [16:12] Kelly Linden: but I can't. :( so at some point you have to take my word for it that it is more difficult than you believe.
* [16:12] Sodovan Torok: armchair too
* [16:12] Thickbrick Sleaford: please do Kelly...
* [16:13] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: I'm Aleric by the way, so you know I COULD do it :p
* [16:13] Ima Mechanique: Kelly, what about couch developers?
* [16:13] Melfina Marshdevil: lol I might submit my resume in a few months to LL here.
* [16:13] Kelly Linden: Hah! Hi aleric and thickbrick.
* [16:13] Sodovan Torok: or futon developers?
* [16:13] Kelly Linden: you can bug me in irc then.
* [16:13] Thickbrick Sleaford: hi tehKellz
* [16:13] Maestro Linden: rides off into the sunset
* [16:13] Hypatia Callisto: I'm into windowsills myself. I just come here to see if I can break stuff :)
* [16:13] Kelly Linden: I have some stuff I need to do before I leave for the day.
* [16:14] Hypatia Callisto: Because that's what I am good at :P
* [16:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: And I have a loop crash to report.
* [16:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: With a bug ugly debug info lol.
* [16:14] Sodovan Torok: laters Kelly, thanks for taking the time!
* [16:14] Kelly Linden: cya!
* [16:14] Drew Dwi: thanks!
* [16:14] DebuggingSLviewer Haystack: thanks
* [16:14] Melfina Marshdevil: thanks
* [16:14] Ima Mechanique: bye Kelly, many thanks
* [16:14] Jonathan Yap: Thank you Kelly
* [16:14] Psi Merlin: Many thanks for comming Kelly
* [16:14] Hypatia Callisto: thank you Kelly :)
* [16:14] Lil Linden: THANKS KELLY!
* [16:14] Techwolf Lupindo: Thank you Kelly for all the info. :-)
* [16:14] Oskar Linden: thanks much kelly