Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2011-08-25

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on August 25th, 2011
== Agenda ==
* Did you miss me last week?
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server (main channel)
* MESH IS LIVE! :-o It finally happened. ^_^
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/11#11.08.17.238770
* BlueSteel RC Channel
** This channel has parcel rezzing and prim editing fixes.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/11#11.08.23.239333
* LeTigre RC Channel
** Login fixes to retrieve user information more effectively for estate access control
** Simulator fixes to usher said user that information more effectively for estate access control
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/11#11.08.22.239223
* Magnum RC Channel
** This project had issues and is now running trunk.
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/11#11.08.17.238770
* Falcon talks about physics and vehicles and optimizing for performance
=== Upcoming Stuff ===
=== Interesting Stuff ===
* Kelly Linden: I put the text for my hud on the wiki: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/HTML_HUD_Demo if anyone feels like helping to improve it, please do! :)
=== Any Other Items ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for August 25th, 2011:
* [15:00] Jacky Scharf: Good evening ladies and gentlemen.
* [15:00] Kallista Destiny: bong bong bong
* [15:00] Fancy Greeter: Falcon Linden has arrived!
* [15:00] Acheron Gloom: Hey Falcon :)
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: agenda link for you all: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: sorry guys I am a bit out of it today
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: I have a huge headache
* [15:01] Latif Khalifa: anybody else hears that manic laugh griefer object?
* [15:01] Kallista Destiny: is it called Magnum?
* [15:01] DreamGirl224: hi jacky :)
* [15:01] Damian Firecaster: hope you feel better Oskar
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: I do not hear a griefer laughing
* [15:01] Liisa Runo: mute "bingo Clarrington" to get rid of the sound
* [15:02] Damian Firecaster: i muted all sounds
* [15:02] Jacky Scharf: Huhu Mausi ㋡
* [15:02] Damian Firecaster: i dont hear it
* [15:02] Acheron Gloom: Its under the ground toward the NE.
* [15:02] Latif Khalifa: Thanks Liisa
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: alright. let's get this party started
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: did you guys miss me last week?
* [15:03] Liisa Runo: we did
* [15:03] Jacky Scharf: Yus.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: i'm back!
* [15:03] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived!
* [15:03] Acheron Gloom: I unno, Maestro is pretty cool, too.
* [15:03] Acheron Gloom: ;p
* [15:03] Homeless: Terribly... I had nothing to do for the hour except go to a sandbox and blow things up
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I had a wonderful vacation
* [15:03] Kallista Destiny: Of course we did
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: the weather was lovely in Seattle
* [15:03] Jacky Scharf: It was incredible bad without you.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: my brother was in town from Australia and I had a good time
* [15:03] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, but went to two conventions back-to-back so filled the empty hour in other ways.
* [15:03] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: it has been a mess today here in FL
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: I missed you guys too
* [15:04] Damian Firecaster: i bet
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: ^_^
* [15:04] Damian Firecaster: i hope you guys will be ok down there
* [15:04] Shirley Marquez: did you catch some of Renovation also, Moundsa?
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: alrighty then
* [15:04] Jacky Scharf: Yus Oskar, we love you. :-D
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: you all already know what went live this week
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: MESH!
* [15:04] WolfPup Lowenhar: we should be only catching outer bands from 'caine Irene
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: there were times I wondered if it would ever ship
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we started that in late 2009
* [15:05] Damian Firecaster: YES MESH in all sims on the main grid ㋡
* [15:05] arton Rotaru: me too^^
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: Yah, Shirley, from the first registration to end of Dead Dog Party B^P
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: full grid rollout
* [15:05] Damian Firecaster: and 64M support
* [15:05] WolfPup Lowenhar: ya my home sim got mesh on tuesday
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: this was a long process
* [15:05] Kadah Coba: I noticed (the lag) on main channel tuesday when the region we were trying to host our office hour was constantly running at an fps of 1 or 2
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I appreciate all of your support and patience and input and bugs :-)
* [15:05] Homeless: I've been fighting a mesh bug... got it fixed on agni, but it still happens here on aditi
* [15:05] Shirley Marquez: it was right up there with Havok 4 and Mono
* [15:06] Damian Firecaster: thank you sir
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: I'm not saying the release is without issues but getting it out there has been a big step
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: no we can work on polishing it
* [15:06] Homeless: for sure
* [15:06] Damian Firecaster: yes
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: now we can I meant
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: we already have a phase 2 in the works
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: with fixes and updates
* [15:06] Flip Idlemind: Found the annoying laugh source. Owner: bingo Clarrington
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: not sure the date for that but septemberish
* [15:07] Nalates Urriah: What will be in phase II?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: I have been blown away with the creativity of people making mesh avatars and objects
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: it's been fun to watch
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: not sure Nalates
* [15:08] Damian Firecaster: oh you have not seen anything yet sir
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: good!
* [15:08] Damian Firecaster: the besat is still yet to come
* [15:08] Homeless: what happened to me is thisL I took the but my mesh status wouldn't update. I contacted support and got my account fixed so now I can upload mesh to agni. But I still get the Warning that I won't be able to upload here on aditi
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: the beast is yet to come :-D
* [15:08] Homeless: took the test
* [15:08] Damian Firecaster: LOL yes sir
* [15:08] Kallista Destiny: Beast?
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: i think you have to retake the quiz for aditi upload
* [15:09] Homeless: where do I do that?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: if a lot of you are seeing that you cannot upload mesh to aditi please file a jira and send it to me
* [15:09] Maestro Linden: Hm, if you trigger an inventory update from Agni, that might copy your mesh upload status too..
* [15:09] Flip Idlemind: It didn't for me, had to retake it
* [15:09] Maestro LindenMaestro Linden isn't sure how that works
* [15:09] Homeless: Yes I did the inv update and then cleared cache
* [15:10] Homeless: didn't work
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: maestro can you do an account transfer for homeless now
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: then homeless, relog and let us know if that fixes it
* [15:10] Homeless: ok let me know when ready
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: while you are gone we will talk about you
* [15:10] Object: Hello, Avatar!
* [15:10] Techwolf Lupindo: I took the quiz a few weeks ago and discoved there was a question with the wrong answer.
* [15:10] Damian Firecaster: lol ㋡
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: alright
* [15:11] Homeless: hehe the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: the other channels have some updates too
* [15:11] Shirley Marquez: I know I had to retake it, but I thought it was because my beta grid display name doesn't match my current main grid one
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: oh right also, after I do my updates I'll hand the floor to Falcon
* [15:11] Homeless: ok bbak in a few min
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: and he'll give us details and info about creating better physical vehicles
* [15:11] Maestro Linden: sure
* [15:11] Maestro Linden: just copied homeless
* [15:11] Damian Firecaster: great
* [15:12] Maestro Linden: hm that didn't work
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: maestro do you have anything to talk about with regards to the changes in blue steel?
* [15:12] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived!
* [15:12] lonetorus Habilis: is it correct that vehicle status will let a prim run scripts on no script land?
* [15:13] Liisa Runo: anything with controls, yes
* [15:13] Flip Idlemind: If it takes controls
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: llTakeControls does
* [15:13] Maestro Linden: Not really, Oskar. Some bugs around parcel object entry were fixed
* [15:13] Maestro Linden: although there are some other bugs which were introduced by mesh..
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: at least scripts in root
* [15:13] Liisa Runo: all scripts, root or not
* [15:13] arton Rotaru: child doesn't work for me
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: it's basically a maint-server with some fixes
* [15:13] Jacky Scharf: wb Homeless
* [15:14] Lucia Nightfire: when is blue steel getting 64m support?
* [15:14] arton Rotaru: last time I checked
* [15:14] Sigma Avro: lol no script zones are dead, info is on wiki
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: bluesteel has it lucia
* [15:14] Lucia Nightfire: I can't make them in blue steel sims yet
* [15:14] Lucia Nightfire: don't know why, heh
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: you should be able to
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: BlueSteel has code from trunk
* [15:14] Kallista Destiny: not all viewera aupport 64M prims
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: and trunk is mesh now
* [15:14] Lucia Nightfire: its the only sims I haven't been able to
* [15:14] Homeless: hi again everyone
* [15:14] Damian Firecaster: what sim are you in
* [15:15] Flip Idlemind: When did you alst try, it got the ability yesterday
* [15:15] Flip Idlemind: last*
* [15:15] Techwolf Lupindo: Estate manager need no-script to work on HUD that use lltakecantrols to get around that so they can lag the regine.
* [15:16] Lucia Nightfire: I tried yesterday, but wasn't able to, I keep havign to leave my sim to go make them
* [15:16] Flip Idlemind: Possibly you tried before the updates
* [15:16] Homeless: I cleared cache before logging.... inv fetched... I still get the warning .. can't upload
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: letigre has some changes that shouldn't affect anything
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: just some changes to the login server to pass more information to estates
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: and the ability for estates to handle it
* [15:17] Sigma Avro: like ?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: oh you know
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: new stuff
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: weight
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: gender
* [15:17] Maestro Linden: somebody from Product will announce it at some point ;)
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: eye color
* [15:17] Damian Firecaster: send me an LM i can check it to se4e
* [15:17] Kadah Coba: Eh?
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: I'm kidding
* [15:18] Sigma Avro: :)
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we do have a few new projects in the works
* [15:18] Bunnie Mills: smell is coming to SL ?
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: I'll detail them when I can
* [15:18] Damian Firecaster: Lucia send me an LM for your sim
* [15:18] Kallista Destiny: woot
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: we've been making small backend tweaks to get things ready
* [15:18] Homeless: we're finally getting liquid prims?
* [15:18] Burtrum Forester: Quick question, will we get deform uploads back? The last couple of updates and I can't upload any.
* [15:18] Damian Firecaster: oh
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: what are deform uploads?
* [15:19] Flip Idlemind: Animations?
* [15:19] Burtrum Forester: Modified bvh files
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: you can't upload animations?
* [15:19] Burtrum Forester: they stretch your avatar.
* [15:19] WolfPup Lowenhar: one that streach or schring bones
* [15:19] Flip Idlemind: Like this
* [15:19] Flip Idlemind: woooooo!
* [15:19] Damian Firecaster: liquid Prims sounds Great
* [15:19] Burtrum Forester: I'm using them now in my shoulders
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: I'm not certain
* [15:20] Lucia Nightfire: stretch for pelvis would be nice, heh
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: if you think it's a bug please file it
* [15:20] Burtrum Forester: They're great for non human avatars but suddenly, I cant upload them
* [15:20] Kallista Destiny: What , if we may ask, was wrong with Magnum?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: what exactly was wrong with magnum maestro?
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: I was paying attention elsewhere
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: I think not all regions were coming back up
* [15:21] Lucia Nightfire: I took a picture of teh grid, it looked liek it was bleeding
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: Oh, a few things. There were some issues with the webserver configuration
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: it worked fine on aditi... <_<
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: which were bad enough by themselves to call for a rollback, but probably shouldn't have prevented the regions from launching
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: Magnum was missing some older changes from trunk, which is a Bad Thing
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: *sigh*
* [15:22] Maestro Linden: and the rollback was kind of ugly, from what I hear
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: better luck next week :-)
* [15:22] Kallista Destiny: took a long time
* [15:22] Latif Khalifa: yeah some regions were down for a long time
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: wasn't falcon linden here a minute ago?
* [15:23] Acheron Gloom: yes
* [15:23] Kallista Destiny: He was
* [15:23] Motor Loon: He got shy
* [15:24] Motor Loon: stagefright
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: aww
* [15:24] Latif Khalifa: he's PE was too high and he was de-rendered :P
* [15:24] Maestro Linden: kelly has something cool to show off
* [15:24] Kallista Destiny: We scared him off
* [15:24] Acheron Gloom: hes still online, I think
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: alright kelly
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: go for it
* [15:24] Sigma Avro: maybe sharks ?
* [15:24] bigjr Slade: you hug him better next time
* [15:24] Fancy Greeter: Rico Linden has arrived!
* [15:25] Fancy Greeter: Rico Linden has arrived!
* [15:25] Lucia Nightfire: Whats the word on that security fix that got rolled back, the one where sit teleports were breaking. Is there a solution for that yet?
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: K, it is an HTML based HUD. You need a viewer that supports media on a prim and media on a prim enabled. However otherwise it is a single script tech-demo hud
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: oh my
* [15:25] Maestro Linden: Looks like I'm being summoned to agni. brb
* [15:25] Kelly Linden: You can buy contents of this box to get one.
* [15:25] Opensource Obscure: great
* [15:26] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: I think I got the permissions right on it. If you drop animations on it they will show in a drop down that you can use to play the animations
* [15:26] Techwolf Lupindo: Over 50% of the grid can' use MOTP and most user like it that way. :-/
* [15:26] Damian Firecaster: oh nice
* [15:26] Damian Firecaster: will this be avalable on main grid
* [15:26] Techwolf Lupindo: can'=can't
* [15:26] Kelly Linden: If you add objects or notecards they show up in a Give drop down on the individual people pages
* [15:27] Shirley Marquez: except that there are good things we could build like better message boards if everybody had MOTP
* [15:27] Kelly Linden: <shrug> This shows something that is possible today, on beta or on agni
* [15:27] Motor Loon: I got "SLL handshake failed"
* [15:27] Kelly Linden: You can take the script on it to agni and it will work.
* [15:27] Motor Loon: SSL
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: so this is live now kelly?
* [15:27] Jonathan Yap: I think we should thank Kelly for working on a new feature.
* [15:27] Damian Firecaster: ok
* [15:27] Kelly Linden: This is live on agni as of last week.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: awesome
* [15:28] Liisa Runo: Thanks Kelly, ill try it some year when v3 is ready
* [15:28] Kelly Linden: and one page has an embedded flash video. :p
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: what else are you working on these days kelly?
* [15:29] Flip Idlemind: And this is a result of the fact that scripts can use HTML in HTTP responses now?
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: Yea
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: Exactly flip.
* [15:29] Flip Idlemind: Coool
* [15:29] Opensource Obscure: great
* [15:29] Opensource Obscure: i put 2 items in it but it's still blank
* [15:29] Kelly Linden: I'm just doing misc. server maintenance Oskar.
* [15:30] Kelly Linden: I'm not sure what the perms need to be on the objects for the give to work.
* [15:30] Motor Loon: I cant get it to work at all
* [15:30] Flip Idlemind: Works fine for me
* [15:30] Motor Loon: Just tells me "ssl handshake failed"
* [15:31] Opensource Obscure: flip which operating system ? i'm on linux
* [15:31] Flip Idlemind: Windows 7
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: You need to have media on a prim enabled in a viewer that supports it, and you need to play the media on the hud. I haven't seen the ssl handshake failed message. May need to reset the script?
* [15:31] arton Rotaru: works for me, but it's a bit slow currently
* [15:31] Opensource Obscure: i wonder if it's something webkit-related ?
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: Could be.
* [15:31] Kelly Linden: Could switch the line that is llRequestSecureURL to llRequestURL and see if that fixes it.
* [15:32] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:33] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: simon what are you working on ?
* [15:33] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:33] Opensource Obscure: it's working now that i replaced ..secureurl with llRequestURL
* [15:33] Kelly Linden: cool oo.
* [15:33] Simon Linden: I've been working on some of the code that went to BlueSteel, and am now looking at performance work
* [15:34] Sigma Avro: sound griefer is back
* [15:34] Latif Khalifa: yeah linden sims use self signed certs. but i thought webkit in the viewer shipped with linden CA
* [15:34] Acheron Gloom: (Switched from FS to V3 by the way and the hud fixed)
* [15:34] Kallista Destiny: is llcastray() enabled?
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it's not yet
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: it will get it's own release
* [15:34] Kallista Destiny: nods
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: soon(tm)
* [15:34] Simon Linden: I'm going to look at how multiple regions on the same server interact ... there may be some ways to share the server better
* [15:34] Kallista Destiny: thanks
* [15:34] Adeon Writer: Can't wait for that. :)
* [15:35] Opensource Obscure: wow kelly thanks !
* [15:35] Damian Firecaster: cool
* [15:35] Kallista Destiny: Simon are you going to try to allow adjcent estats to sahre a server?
* [15:35] Kallista Destiny: estates to share*
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: there are advantages when adjacent sims are on the same simhost
* [15:36] Simon Linden: No, I'm not looking at how we distribute regions to the hardware, but I heard someone had that on their list to look at
* [15:36] Kallista Destiny: wonderful
* [15:36] Kallista Destiny: although the problem is clearly NP complete
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: Is there already some system in place that tries to keep adjacent regions in the came COLO?
* [15:36] Bunnie Mills: the goal being minimize crossing trouble?
* [15:36] Jonathan Yap: *same
* [15:36] Sigma Avro: yes 8 sims on same host could work as a mega region ?
* [15:36] Latif Khalifa: region conductor that took into account avarage load of a sim and distributing sims around accordingly would be helpful
* [15:37] Simon Linden: There would definitely be some improvements if we just placed some of the busy areas that have a lot of region crossings closer together, in the same colo at least
* [15:37] Kallista Destiny: yeah I'm sure that colo would help quite a bit, but co hoste would be wonderful
* [15:37] Simon Linden: Right, there's load balancing to try to avoid putting 2 popular regions on the same server, plus region crossing or TP traffic patterns
* [15:38] Eddi Decosta: oups sorry maestro :)
* [15:38] Simon Linden: Right, the same colo is a basic step, next would be the same rack, finally the same server itself
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: chat lag is amazing right now
* [15:39] Eddi Decosta: hi all sorry i,m little late
* [15:39] Latif Khalifa: and there is the curious case of script scheduler running at half speed on class 7 server compared to class 5
* [15:39] Motor Loon: ssyssh you'll jinx it Sigma!
* [15:39] Sigma Avro: heh!
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: That one is baffling.
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: It is true independent of server load. It is true if there is only one region running on the class 7 host.
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: even only one sim lol
* [15:40] Kelly Linden: That is what I mean.
* [15:40] Kallista Destiny: wow
* [15:40] Latif Khalifa: class 7 is cursed, that's the only explanation
* [15:41] Latif Khalifa: it also has that weird "time warp" thingie
* [15:41] Fancy Greeter: Falcon Linden has arrived!
* [15:41] Oskar Linden: falcon linde has arrived!
* [15:41] Kelly Linden: We may have a lead on the timewarp thingy and maybe it will help the script scheduler! I haven't tested that.
* [15:41] Sigma Avro: hi Falcon
* [15:41] Latif Khalifa: kelly, great news
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: mor power to dakellz
* [15:42] Kelly Linden: (it probably won't help scripts)
* [15:42] Kallista Destiny: :((
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: ladies and gentlemen: falcon linden!
* [15:42] Flip Idlemind: woooooo!
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: I asked falcon here today to talk about vehicles
* [15:42] arton Rotaru: heya Falcon
* [15:42] Falcon Linden: Ahoy!
* [15:42] Bunnie Mills: ahoy !
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: and how to properly make vehicles in the new havok engine
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: now that mesh is live everywhere we have some new options
* [15:43] Kallista Destiny: Ave Falco
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: falcon thanks for coming!
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: Quite welcome
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: Now, where is that annoying laugh coming from?
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: hah
* [15:43] Nalates Urriah: \o/ Falcon
* [15:43] Liisa Runo: mute "bingo Clarrington" to get rid of the sound
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: take off your headphones
* [15:43] Falcon Linden: meh, I just cammed my view till it shut up :)
* [15:43] Latif Khalifa: will some friendly linden return objects by bingo Clarrington
* [15:44] Kallista Destiny: Please
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: Return all his objects ...
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: INX!
* [15:44] Kadah Coba: The object seems to be "clownlolz"
* [15:44] Motor Loon: ..and toast him over the fire
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: Errr ...
* [15:44] Moundsa Mayo: [JINX]
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: I can take care of that.. 1 moment
* [15:44] Falcon Linden: This here is the Kart 1.0. Actually, it's a copy of Kart 1.0 I found in my inventory because my Library folder isn't showing up
* [15:44] Kadah Coba: But its in the ground so I dunno if v3 cam to it
* [15:44] Opensource Obscure: o.O sure it can
* [15:45] Motor Loon: there
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: Kart 1.0 is a great example of how NOT to build a kart
* [15:45] Motor Loon: lols
* [15:45] Liisa Runo: ^^
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: Falcon, you had a look at hthis yet? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-743
* [15:45] Flame of Jira: [#CTS-743] Mesh vehicles axes float / axes friction https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-743
* [15:45] Falcon Linden: arton: after my presentation :P
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: it's not only large vehicles
* [15:45] Motor Loon: so new there's Kart 1.1beta?
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: torii wheels are bad?
* [15:45] arton Rotaru: okies
* [15:45] Homeless: why the plywood cube?
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: torii anything physical is bad
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: that was an engine
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: Here's one way to know it's bad:
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: prims power sl
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: If you switch the box in the middle to be a Convex Hull, the kart will use the new accounting
* [15:46] Kadah Coba: I thought it was meeroos that powered sl.
* [15:46] Falcon Linden: With new accounting, it costs 137.4 prims before being physical
* [15:46] Motor Loon: not bad °͜°
* [15:46] Motor Loon: if you wear it
* [15:46] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:46] Adeon Writer: Owch
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: Also, if you can turn on Physics Shape display (Develop | Render Metadata | Physics Shapes )
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: you should see that the wheels are bright red
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: Not a good sign
* [15:47] Simon Linden: Another detail ... I once checked the physics shape of that kart, and it has 3014 vertices in it
* [15:47] Motor Loon: same fancy numbers would probably come from it being sculpted eh
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: So, we're going to improve it
* [15:47] Bunnie Mills: i see them blue or yellow
* [15:47] Oskar Linden: that makes my screen go black
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: Oskar: mine too
* [15:47] Falcon Linden: maybe it's only Lindens who suffer? :)
* [15:47] Simon Linden: It's shape in the physics engine is _way_ too complicated
* [15:48] arton Rotaru: enable shadows Oskar and try again
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: Step one: select all 4 wheels and set them to physics shape type convex hull
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: New Physics Weight: 11.2
* [15:48] Fancy Greeter: Caleb Linden has arrived!
* [15:48] Falcon Linden: (down from 137)
* [15:48] Fancy Greeter: Simon Linden has arrived!
* [15:48] 10K's Magic Wand V2.75 whispers: Waiting for your commands master. I am ready to cast 190 spells.
* [15:48] 10K's Magic Wand V2.75 whispers: I am listening for 236 commands.
* [15:49] Flip Idlemind: Anyone else crash?
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: Next, let's get rid of physics on those two little boxes at the back, the smoke emitters
* [15:49] Jacky Scharf: Crash? Where?
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: they don't need to be there and they cause the physics rep to catch on things
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: i crashed too
* [15:49] Jonathan Yap: Not me, I am on Radegast
* [15:49] Sigma Avro: this makes screen all black Falcon
* [15:49] Simon Linden: Not me, I'm on V3 :P
* [15:49] Jacky Scharf: I'm on Snowglobe ...
* [15:49] Falcon Linden: PW = 11
* [15:49] Sigma Avro: am on old mesh devlop
* [15:50] arton Rotaru: try the phys display with Lightning and Sahdows ON
* [15:50] Homeless: im on v3 and it makes my screen black also
* [15:50] Flip Idlemind: Show Physics Shape = Baaaaaaaad, crashed me instantly
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: Now, we also don't need any of these pieces:
* [15:50] Kallista Destiny: lols shadows? GIV ME A BREAK
* [15:50] Adeon Writer: Is Convex hull normally less intensive than the default setting?
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: The seat, the box, or the bits on the inside of the wheels. We can remove all of those from the physics rep
* [15:50] arton Rotaru: only way to make the phys dospl show up for me
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: Err, not the seat
* [15:50] Falcon Linden: that's the root prim
* [15:50] Jonathan Yap: Falcon, are you going to convert that Kart to a Unicycle?
* [15:51] Acheron Gloom: (Convex hull should always be less intensive than prim physics.)
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: Okay, so the kart is now down to 10.2 physics weight
* [15:52] Latif Khalifa: what's the total PE?
* [15:52] Falcon Linden: removing the two inner cylinders brings it down to 10
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: Latif: 27. 1 per prim
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: same as it used to be.
* [15:53] Falcon Linden: Okay, now we've substantially optimized the physics rep
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: So let's improve the behavior
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: I've changed Gravity to 5 on the Features tab
* [15:54] Falcon Linden: That GREATLY reduces the "moon buggy" behavior without resorting to script hacks like pushing the vehicle into the ground every frame
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: yeah, but it has drwbacks
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: Arton: Like?
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: "streaming cost" for prims inflates PE so much that most objects get ther total PE increased if you optimize physics. it stays the same as the best case scenario
* [15:55] arton Rotaru: the vehicles sildes down sideways on slopes
* [15:55] Motor Loon: that was my experience too Latif
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: Latif: we're not here to discuss streaming cost. And apparently that hasn't happened with the kart
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: so it's irrelevant for two reaosons instead of just one!
* [15:55] bigjr Slade: we have both version in inventory for agin ?
* [15:55] Falcon Linden: Bigjr: You will soon.
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: Or at least, I plan to figure out how to get them into the library
* [15:56] Acheron Gloom: Haha
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: So /hopefully/ soon :)
* [15:56] Motor Loon: because the Kart is plain simple prims... not a sculpted vehicle like most would probably be
* [15:56] Sigma Avro: crashed
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: Motor: so don't use sculpts.
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: They're expensive.
* [15:56] Motor Loon: right
* [15:56] Latif Khalifa: Falcon, I'm just saying you get penalized for optimizing most of the time. I guess that's not the desired effect.
* [15:56] Flip Idlemind: Did you crash when you turned on Show Physics Shapes?
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: Which is why the prim equiv is higher
* [15:56] Motor Loon: but you're also talking about being existing content better or?=
* [15:56] Acheron Gloom: Using convex hulls can actually be advantageous fo lag and for PE I've found
* [15:56] Motor Loon: or are we just talking mesh now
* [15:56] Falcon Linden: Acheron: yep, definitely
* [15:56] Acheron Gloom: boxes, for example, though are boxes for the physics engine either way will have their PE cut in half.
* [15:57] Motor Loon: because not many would build a modern car / bike with regular prims these days
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: Motor: then use a mesh with an efficient physics rep
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: I've seen some GREAT examples
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: low PE, good performance, very attractive designed
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: designs*
* [15:57] Falcon Linden: so it can be done.
* [15:57] Motor Loon: agree... still wont do much good for all existing content
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: This Kart is Copy OK, so feel free to grab it and play around
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: Friction should work, too
* [15:58] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:58] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:58] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:58] Kadah Coba: Nope
* [15:58] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:58] Latif Khalifa: Motor, right, PE encourages you not to use the new physics
* [15:58] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:58] Acheron Gloom: Oh by the way, I noticed the friction tends to range from 1.0 to 0.0 for standard materials but we can set it to 255 manually, will that make any difference?
* [15:58] Kadah Coba: Is the contents also set to any one can copy?
* [15:58] Adeon Writer: It's not copy OK just yet :)
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: Acheron: Yep
* [15:58] Falcon Linden: Watch
* [15:58] Kart 1.0 Legacy Type: You aren't the owner
* [15:59] Kart 2.0: 0.734554
* [15:59] bigjr Slade: no copy
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: No copy?
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: falcon: set the kart for sale for L$0
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: probably some scripts aren't freely copyable
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: Did that work?
* [15:59] bigjr Slade: ty
* [15:59] Falcon Linden: Np
* [15:59] Kadah Coba: "Anyone can copy" only works if all conents of the object is also set to "anyone can copy"
* [15:59] Sigma Avro: yah! Thanks Falcon
* [16:00] Homeless: Buying worked
* [16:00] Homeless: thanx!
* [16:00] Damian Firecaster: thanks
* [16:00] Kart 1.0 Legacy Type: 0.734554
* [16:00] Kart 1.0 Legacy Type: 0.734554
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: thanks falcon
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: you should put all that into a wiki page
* [16:00] Kart 2.0: 0.734550
* [16:00] Falcon Linden: These boxes have friction 255
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: falcon what are your top 3 tips for improved vehicle performance. to recap.
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: With friction 1.0, they slide :)
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: 3 tips:
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: 1) Set as many prims as possible to "No Physics"
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: 2) Set as many of the remaining prims as possible to "Convex Hull"
* [16:01] Liisa Runo: if you plant to put the new kart ot library, also tune the scripts, nowdays you can make the whole thing with just one script
* [16:01] Falcon Linden: 3) See #1 and #2. Then remove some more prims and set a few more to convex hull :)
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: there you go ladies and gentlemen
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: falcon has spoken
* [16:02] Falcon Linden: Oh, and don't mess with the physics system. Use gravity settings, don't push things into the ground :)
* [16:02] Falcon Linden: Indeed!
* [16:02] Kelly Linden: Maestro: didn't you already have a 1 script version?
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: yeah I have a 1 script version of the Kart
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: pls have a look at this Falcon https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-743
* [16:02] Adeon Writer: So if they're not absolutely ncessessary for collision, no physics.
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: Falcon thank you so much for stopping by today
* [16:02] Falcon Linden: Adeon: bingo
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: we should combine them if we want to update the Library version..
* [16:02] Falcon Linden: Oskar: No problem at all
* [16:02] Damian Firecaster: thnks falcon
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: though really, it would be nice to update the prims to be prettier
* [16:02] Bunnie Mills: thanks Falcon
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: I can do that :-D
* [16:02] arton Rotaru: increasing gravity might fix it, at leats for me, but I dunno how it works with that bus
* [16:02] Acheron Gloom: Do you think there will be more physics types later on or anything, maybe like 'bounding sphere' or something? I think it might be interesting, but not sure how useful it would be.
* [16:03] Falcon Linden: Oskar/Maestro, we should chat about this offline
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: thanks everyone for coming today
* [16:03] Acheron Gloom: And people might get confused by more.
* [16:03] Oskar Linden: we will falcon
* [16:03] Falcon Linden: acheron: All you need to do is link in a sphere and set it to 100% transparent
* [16:03] Falcon Linden: Oh, yeah!
* [16:03] Acheron GloomAcheron Gloom nods, "But then you have extra prims and all. Was just a thought ;p"
* [16:03] Falcon Linden: That's tip #4
* [16:03] Falcon Linden: If Convex Hull isn't simple enough, use no physics for that shape and link in a 100% transparent sphere or uniform cylinder or box!
* [16:04] Falcon Linden: all three have PW = 0.1
* [16:04] Homeless: Oskar, I'll file a JIRA about the upload problem I'm having
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: thanks homeless
* [16:04] Shirley Marquez: but it's important to use the default fully transparent texture, right?
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: and I have to head out now
* [16:04] Oskar Linden: thanks everyone for coming today
* [16:04] Moundsa Mayo: Oskar, Maestro, Simon, Kelly, Falcon, Caleb, thanks for your time and all your hard work!
* [16:04] Sigma Avro: Thanks to you all Oskar, Falcon, Maetro, Simon, Kelly, Caleb,....
* [16:04] Acheron Gloom: Bye bye Oskar
* [16:04] Falcon Linden: who raised that CTS issue?
* [16:04] Bosco Gray: yw Oskar
* [16:04] Maestro Linden: the basket for this airship uses transparent prims for the basket's physics shape
* [16:04] arton Rotaru: me
* [16:04] Lares Carter: thanks for the nice meeting
* [16:04] Damian Firecaster: thank you Oskar
* [16:04] Falcon Linden: arton: are you an estate manager there?
* [16:04] Kart 2.0: 0.687904
* [16:04] Drivable mesh balloon 1.4: Welcome aboard, Captain ALT-F4 Me
* [16:05] Acheron Gloom: Is there any actual difference between spheres, cylinders, and cubes physically? I'd assume so, but maybe its so small it wouldn't be noticable?
* [16:05] Falcon Linden: (debug console is ctrl+shift+` on windows and required Advanced and Develop to be open)
* [16:05] arton Rotaru: the console requires a special viewer?
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: Acheron: in term of performance? Sphere are better than boxes are better than cylinders
* [16:06] Acheron Gloom: Got it
* [16:06] Oskar Linden: afk
* [16:06] Acheron Gloom: THanks
* [16:06] arton Rotaru: k , I'# try
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: Arton: any relatively recent Linden viewer will work
* [16:06] arton Rotaru: okies
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: Let me know if that helps
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: IF not, I'll look at it a bit further
* [16:06] Adeon Writer: Are cubes the least intensive physics shape? What about if they're tapered?
* [16:06] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [16:06] Opensource Obscure: ctrl+shift+` = no good for some europeans, just FYI
* [16:06] arton Rotaru: will do, if I am able to enter the console
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: oobscure I know, we need to fix that...
* [16:06] Acheron Gloom: Spheres are better than cubes, if its a normal sphere. That means all the scales are the same and theres no extra weird parameters.
* [16:06] Falcon Linden: Adeon: as soon as you taper it it's a convex hull and will be expensive in relation to how many vertices it has
* [16:06] Shirley Marquez: Develop/Consoles/Debug Console also works
* [16:07] Maestro Linden: yes Acheron, and that applies to cylinders too
* [16:07] Opensource Obscure: right that
* [16:07] Acheron GloomAcheron Gloom nods
* [16:07] Acheron Gloom: For cylinders just the X and Y has to be the same right?
* [16:07] Falcon Linden: And as soon as you hollow or twist, things go bad fast
* [16:07] Maestro Linden: if it has an elliptical profile (not spherical), it's not nearly as cheap
* [16:08] Fancy Greeter: Kelly Linden has arrived!
* [16:08] Falcon Linden: Ellipse is roughly 12x as expensive
* [16:08] Acheron Gloom: wows
* [16:08] Falcon Linden: ellipsoid*
* [16:08] Acheron Gloom: also, do tubes count as concave even if their hole is set as small as possible?
* [16:08] Moundsa Mayo: Table of approximate equivalencies in wiki would help educate ...
* [16:08] Acheron Gloom: I think they do, and I was wondering if it could count as a cylinder instead.
* [16:08] Acheron Gloom: I was testing the other day and 90 tubes went up to like 13 ms of physics time, but 90 convex hull tubes only went to 1.1 or so
* [16:08] Falcon Linden: Acheron: yes. Setting it to convex hull will help, but it still won't replace with a true cylinder
* [16:08] Falcon Linden: you should do that by hand
* [16:09] Acheron GloomAcheron Gloom nods
* [16:09] Acheron Gloom: Would it ever be possible to have the engine automatically do it, or might it break content?
* [16:09] Acheron Gloom: Lots of people use tubes since the cylinder having the Zaxis as height can be kind of annoying
* [16:09] Falcon Linden: Acheron: it might be possible to have "convex hull" be a bit smarter about replacing with a true cylinder
* [16:09] Acheron Gloom: That'd be nice. But not super high priority :)
* [16:10] Falcon Linden: yup. Probably fairly easy to do, but then there's all the testing and making sure it doesn't break some one resident's super strangle cylinder-tube-elevator or wahtever
* [16:10] Falcon Linden: :P
* [16:10] Moundsa Mayo: No, llTeleportVehicleWithPassengers higher priority B^D
* [16:10] Falcon Linden: All right, thanks for listening!
* [16:10] Acheron Gloom: Super-Clever-Physics-Abusing-Floaty-Elevator
* [16:10] Bunnie Mills: cheers ! byeee
* [16:10] Adeon Writer: Thanks all!
* [16:10] Moundsa Mayo: LAte for next meeting. Cyas!
* [16:10] Falcon Linden: Acheron: ooh, good point! Gravity is better than llSetPos for an elevator
* [16:11] Falcon Linden: it goes negative!
* [16:11] Nalates Urriah: TU Falcon
* [16:11] Kelly Linden: I put the text for my hud on the wiki: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/HTML_HUD_Demo if anyone feels like helping to improve it, please do! :)
* [16:11] Falcon Linden: Observe my glorious departure!
* [16:11] Adeon Writer: Off like a Falcon
* [16:12] Acheron Gloom: Thanks Kelly :>