Bug triage/2009-10-05/Transcript

* [12:03] Alexa Linden: shall we begin?
* [12:03] Moon Metty: yup
* [12:03] Davy Linden: ok
* [12:03] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4857 - Continues Momentary Freezing Regardless of Client Version Used 
* [12:04] Moon Metty: so these freezes are client side
* [12:04] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:04] Ardy Lay: Have her disable water reflections.
* [12:05] Soft Linden: Really? Do water reflections cause big issues on some machines?
* [12:05] Alexa Linden: some yes
* [12:05] Ardy Lay: Yes, lot's of messages in log too.
* [12:05] Latif Khalifa: Ardy, does not explain that she got problems only after 1.30 was roled out
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 0.912314s detected (LSO)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 0.935539s detected (Mono)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 3.864850s detected (Mono)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 4.009384s detected (LSO)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 0.772326s detected (Mono)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 0.866483s detected (LSO)
* [12:05] Panel 3: Freeze of 0.503698s detected (Mono)
* [12:05] Skills Hak: i get 5 fps more with water turned off
* [12:06] Skills Hak: but no issues
* [12:06] Phantom Ninetails: Noisy script
* [12:06] Harleen Gretzky: I get neither from water reflections
* [12:06] Soft Linden: Yeah. This wouldn't be sim freezes, though that tool is pretty neat.
* [12:06] Moon Metty: :)
* [12:06] Soft Linden: If the sim freezes, the client keeps extrapolating movement, running water animations, etc
* [12:06] Moon Metty: yes, but in this report the client is having trouble
* [12:06] Soft Linden: How about we don't mark the date on this, and ask if turning off reflections or other render features helps.
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:07] Soft Linden: Then next week we can see if there's a response.
* [12:07] Morgaine Dinova: Water reflections are done in a shader, right?
* [12:07] Phantom Ninetails: Soft, reminds me of my favourite client option to disable: Advanced menu, network, velocity interpolate objects.
* [12:07] Soft Linden: Pretty sure water is another full set of render passes.
* [12:07] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1174 - llGetBoundingBox() returns nonsensical values for attachments on avatars sitting on objects 
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: ok, I'll ask
* [12:07] Imaze Rhiano: I can confirm this bug
* [12:08] Soft Linden: Let's import this.
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:08] Moon Metty: of course attachments can't collide ..
* [12:08] Soft Linden: If this is true, it could also be screwing up interest list calculations, etc.
* [12:08] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1812 - Values returned by llDetectedGrab() are based on global position when worn as attachment. 
* [12:08] Soft Linden: So I'd even agree with that major priority.
* [12:08] Moon Metty: ahhh ok
* [12:08] Imaze Rhiano: no... not major
* [12:08] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, is that why sitting is so eratic now, and tinies are often embedded in their seats? (Didn't happen before a month ago)
* [12:08] Imaze Rhiano: I can confirm als 1812
* [12:08] Phantom Ninetails: Interest list was ever not screwed up?
* [12:09] Soft Linden: Import this too, please.
* [12:09] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:09] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14240 - Running 1.23 causes FPS to drop below 2 frequently 
* [12:10] Skills Hak: sounds like an openal issue
* [12:10] Soft Linden: This should still be NMI on those fasttimers.
* [12:10] Davy Linden: +1
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: there are pics on the related issue she refers to
* [12:10] Soft Linden: Alexa's question from Sep29
* [12:10] Soft Linden: The related issue wouldn't be related though. Mono wouldn't have anything to do with the local framerate
* [12:10] Alexa Linden: 
* [12:10] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-3895|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-3895]]: 
* [12:11] Roberto Salubrius: I have to ask why is it that the official viewer always has less FPS compared to unofficial viewers, and even snowglobe that is "official"
* [12:11] Soft Linden: No fast timers on that. That's just got the stat window up
* [12:11] Ardy Lay: Hehe, Changes
* [12:11] Alexa Linden: ok so back to needing pics with that comment?
* [12:11] Soft Linden: Yup.
* [12:11] Davy Linden: yep
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:12] Phantom Ninetails: Fast timers? On that? Fast timers are client side, that's a server bug
* [12:12] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9382 - Sounds caching very slowly. 
* [12:12] Squirrel Wood: derezzing mono scripted items also "criple" sim fps
* [12:12] Soft Linden: Roberto - I don't think that's the case. It would be cool if someone tried to do a careful comparison of both viewers on one machine, with the same environment, a loaded cache, etc.
* [12:12] Roberto Salubrius: Soft ok I'll do that
* [12:12] Soft Linden: If someone can demonstrate that other viewers really are faster with a reproducible setup, we could look to what needed to be fixed.
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: almost a year old since last update
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: jan 2009
* [12:13] Latif Khalifa: Alexa, and expected behaviour, after clean cache takes some time for sound to download if you activate gesture for the first time
* [12:13] Squirrel Wood: I still do get sounds not loading in time or not loading at all on a regular basis
* [12:13] Morgaine Dinova: I'm pretty sure Lindens don't *want* their viewer to be slow. It's just a case of identifying how to speed it up. :-))
* [12:13] Soft Linden: Sounds take a long time to download... I wonder if these are being moved to http as well?
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: 2nd time normally runs smoothly for me
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Let's import this, just to talk about sound speeds internally, make sure that's being piggybacked on the http texture work.
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Sounds will never be instantaneous without a preloader running. But might be able to do better.
* [12:14] Roberto Salubrius: yes even animations, second time is a charm but it happens with sounds, anims, and even some stubborn textures :)
* [12:14] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1573 - Cut hollow cylinder not hollow 
* [12:14] Latif Khalifa: Soft, arent't all asset downloads supposed to go over to http downloads eventually?
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Latif - That's the plan. But my question is if we're pushing through sounds too, or just textures initially.
* [12:14] Latif Khalifa: (and uploads for that matter)
* [12:14] Alexa Linden: april 2008 can't repro
* [12:14] Morgaine Dinova: And as a counterpoint, I'm running the latest Imprudence right now, and it's a lot slower than Snowglobe on Linux+nVidia. :-)
* [12:15] Soft Linden: This is old. Still happening in Havok 4?
* [12:15] Davy Linden: NMI/still a problem?
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: jinx
* [12:15] Roberto Salubrius: they are only using http protocol for textures at the moment ( from what I have seen on snowglobe)
* [12:15] Soft Linden: Yeah. As Davy says
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: NMI it is
* [12:15] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1676 - object contents not transferred when object ownership changes in world 
* [12:15] Soft Linden: In snowglobe, it's just map textures. The general http texture work isn't public yet.
* [12:16] Latif Khalifa: would be nice if all asset downloads/uploads went ove to caps, the brief time we had UploadBakedTexture cap it was order of magnitute faster
* [12:16] Soft Linden: It makes things zomg cool. You'll see. :3
* [12:16] Morgaine Dinova: :-)
* [12:16] Squirrel Wood: it makes things load fast as it was like three years ago before the big wave ?
* [12:16] Roberto Salubrius: :)
* [12:16] Squirrel Wood: when assets used to load infront of you and not two minutes after you walked past them? ^^
* [12:16] Alexa Linden: lol squirrel
* [12:16] Soft Linden: Three years ago, people were still making sane content! You could actually find like - 32x32 textures in the wild!
* [12:17] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [12:17] Soft Linden: Now you've got prim avatars with 1024x1024 eye textures.
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: sane and yet fashionable??
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: not
* [12:17] Morgaine Dinova: Insane content FTW! :-)
* [12:17] Soft Linden: hrmf.
* [12:17] Ardy Lay: I found some 2048x2048 stuff Sunday. It was scary.
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: so back to SVC-1676
* [12:17] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1676: 
* [#SVC-1676] contents not: transferred when object ownership changes in world
* [12:17] Roberto Salubrius: textures smaller thatn 128x128 are a pain to load... I can say that... jejeje
* [12:17] Soft Linden: Yeah. I put a cap in on anything bigger than that, even for old assets.
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: so we keep on track
* [12:17] Soft Linden: Back on track!
* [12:18] Moon Metty: ,
* [12:18] Squirrel kisses: Soft's nose.
* [12:18] Moon Metty: Roberto, do you know about SVC-1676?
* [12:18] Morgaine Dinova: lol
* [12:18] Soft Linden: Don't make Alexa get the whip out.
* [12:18] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: I have one???
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: Hooo!
* [12:18] Moon Metty: ,
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: this is also orlder
* [12:18] Soft Linden: I thiiiink this is a dupe...
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: older*
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: I do too
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: all the other perm issues
* [12:19] Roberto Salubrius: no moon... I sell a lot of things but I have never seen that, what I see is that on_change() even on owner change, fails to trigger all the time.
* [12:19] Soft Linden: is searching
* [12:19] Roberto Salubrius: not even event.
* [12:20] Soft Linden: Foo. Let's import.
* [12:20] Roberto Salubrius: ( I should really post all the bugs I see ... then again I dont )
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:20] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1905 - Prim collision volume is 0.050 thicker in H4, breaking H1 content 
* [12:20] Latif Khalifa: SVC-1676 looks to me like viewer caching task inventory
* [12:20] Soft Linden: Alexa - add me as a watcher? I'll hunt for the dupe later and mark it up if there is one.
* [12:20] Davy Linden: smells s dupe
* [12:20] Davy Linden: a*
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: will do
* [12:20] Soft Linden: Possible, Latif. There are definitely some issues with that.
* [12:20] Latif Khalifa: so when they say "nudging" by renaming it forces the viewer to refetch task inv
* [12:21] Moon Metty: havok4 has a 0.1 m tolerance, it has become widely accepted
* [12:21] Soft Linden: We should close this
* [12:21] Soft Linden: We can't change these numbers now.
* [12:21] Davy Linden: Expected Behaviour?
* [12:21] Squirrel Wood: won't fix ?
* [12:21] Soft Linden: Won't fix, yeah.
* [12:21] Latif Khalifa: viewer also fails to reset scripts in object if scripts were injected with a script to all prims, you need to derez, rez, in order for viewer to see that there are new scirpts in those prims
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: WF or EB?
* [12:22] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1961 - Attach event does not reliably execute upon detach of an attachment 
* [12:22] Soft Linden: Or whatever. Expected I guess. Andrew may ahve done that deliberately.
* [12:22] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:22] Davy Linden: this repros for me
* [12:22] Imaze Rhiano: I can confirm 1961 - but basically it is happening because script is....
* [12:22] Roberto Salubrius: Latif yes that's an annoyance but you get used to it...
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Hrmmmm... not sure what to do here. The detach event only gets a certain amount of time to execute. If the script is otherwise busy, it may not get there.
* [12:23] Imaze Rhiano: detach event is placed to queue and script stops before it have time to handle it - don't think that you can fix this
* [12:23] Moon Metty: maybe a script can be given a certain number of server frames before it detaches
* [12:23] Squirrel Wood: a script is given some time on detach
* [12:23] Imaze Rhiano: or maybe wait until it queue is empty?
* [12:23] Roberto Salubrius: 1961 is random... with a bit of sim lag/freeze de_attach never gets triggered, nothing much you can do about that.
* [12:23] Davy Linden: that still won't help the llSleep({frames+ a bit}) moon
* [12:24] Moon Metty: i know, it will never work perfectly
* [12:24] Soft Linden: No, can't wait. This would block logoffs, etc. Or a malicious script could prevent detaches altogether.
* [12:24] Imaze Rhiano: Roberto - it is possible to reproduce this one
* [12:24] Moon Metty: at least we can see by the key if it's detach or attach
* [12:24] Soft Linden: Really, I think Strife's comment at the end there about sums it up. The only thing that concerns me is if we're queuing that event and still processing it next login.
* [12:24] Soft Linden: But that should be a separate JIRA if that's happening.
* [12:24] Liisa Runo: i found a way to prevent detach, but ill experiment it more berfore i report it
* [12:25] Roberto Salubrius: Imaze yes it's easy to repro, just rez a script that can freeze a sim, then deattach the event will never get triggered.
* [12:25] Imaze Rhiano: maybe removing detach event from queue when rezzing?
* [12:25] Moon Metty: hmmm
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Right, that's what I'm thinking. It should clear any detaches from the event queue if it never even reached the handler.
* [12:25] Moon Metty: then why put it on the queue in the first place?
* [12:25] Soft Linden: But again - that should probably be a separate JIRA.
* [12:26] Soft Linden: The event queue is a generic mechanism that gets serialized in totality.
* [12:26] Soft Linden: So we'd need to selectively pluck these out.
* [12:26] Roberto Salubrius: pluck lol... Iove the word
* [12:26] Soft Linden: Someone want to make a separate JIRA for the detach queue issue?
* [12:27] Soft Linden: It should be easy to make a repro script for that. Just have a script sleep for 60 on attachment. And then have it print a message when processing the detach event.
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Then wearing it, unwearing it, and rewearing it should cause it to eventually print the detach after re-wearing if it's really an issue.
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Nobody itchy to? :3
* [12:28] Moon Metty: i will have a try Soft :)
* [12:28] Soft Linden: Thanks! Feel free to email if you run into a problem with it
* [12:28] Moon Metty: ok
* [12:28] Imaze Rhiano: doesn't feel that this is critical enough for her to write Jira for it...
* [12:28] Phantom Ninetails: Since it's all the attach event I suspect it will call the attach event three times saying it was attached, 3 times and never detached
* [12:28] Soft Linden: For this issue, I think we can mark it as expected behavior.
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:28] Soft Linden: And make a note that Moon will be making a separate issue for the event being queued.
* [12:28] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2177 - Dont recieve Group invites or Friendship offers online. Only Mails about this. 
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: I tend to say support
* [12:29] Soft Linden: It would be nice if someone would test this. Should be straightforward.
* [12:30] Roberto Salubrius: I know what could cause 2177
* [12:30] Soft Linden: For the last comment, this person's queue could just be full.
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:30] Soft Linden: Only like 20 IMs, invites, etc get queued.
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: busy mode
* [12:30] Roberto Salubrius: maybe someone remembers that when you teleport, IM's tend to go to your email ( if you have that setup )
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: there could be a number of reasons
* [12:30] Alexa Linden: that too Roberto
* [12:30] Roberto Salubrius: since invites and group invites and all that are just modified messages
* [12:31] Latif Khalifa: yeah, 20 im cap kills friendship offers, group invites, etc etc
* [12:31] Roberto Salubrius: it could very welll be that same issue seen on another context
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: and if you are in no-mans sim... between TPs
* [12:31] Roberto Salubrius: yes.. Alexa... exactly
* [12:31] Soft Linden: Yeah :/
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: the system can't find you
* [12:31] Soft Linden: Hate that.
* [12:32] Soft Linden: Anyway - if someone wants to test this, just verify that invites and group notices are still appearing okay - would sure put my mind at ease
* [12:32] Soft Linden: I don't remember if I've had recent offline friend invites. Certainly had group invites and messages.
* [12:32] Roberto Salubrius: upon teleports it's interesting you go to 0,0,0 then on most cases you stay for a very small period of time at 10,10,10 then go to your destination.
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: I can check test with someone
* [12:33] Latif Khalifa: Soft, you mean those you get while in tp?
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Testing with an alt
* [12:33] Alexa Linden: I have a feeling it will end p Can't repro
* [12:33] Soft Linden: Still on SVC-2177, Latif
* [12:33] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2177: 
* [#SVC-2177] recieve Group: invites or Friendship offers online. Only Mails about this.
* [12:33] Latif Khalifa: they work fine if recieved withing 20IMs
* [12:33] Soft Linden: group and friend invite worked fine for me
* [12:34] Soft Linden: Yeah. Let's can't repo this
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: k\
* [12:34] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2564 - Group-deeded land and items frequently losing perms and sim restarts required 
* [12:34] Roberto Salubrius: it must be the same thing as the tp issue.
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: aug 2008
* [12:34] Yann Dufaux: soft, for some ims, i don't recive the awnser if i'm connected its due to a lag or?
* [12:34] Alexa Linden: this is one specific sim
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Contact support on this, for others' benefit on finding it
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: it would end up as support
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: jinx
* [12:35] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3098 - Group IMs recieved after leaving the group 
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: teh proof
* [12:35] Alexa Linden: lol love that
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Yann - if you're tping from one region to another, and the presence server hasn't been updated, the message goes to the old sim and doesn't get forwarded to the new sim. Instead, it's treated as though you were offline.
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: dec 2008
* [12:36] Soft Linden: So mid-TP and mid-region crossing is when it happens, unless the grid's in a horrible state and the presence server's not working right at all.
* [12:36] Roberto Salubrius: 3098 is OLD ... that does not happen again.
* [12:36] Yann Dufaux: Soft, okey i need to test if i find a clear reprod 
* [12:36] Latif Khalifa: no, that one's fixed
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: ya this was when we had all those group issues
* [12:36] Roberto Salubrius: I mean that does not happen anymore it used to
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: right
* [12:36] Soft Linden: I saw 3098 a while before the big group IM rollback that had all the picketers here.
* [12:36] Soft Linden: I think we can close it can't repro for now, unless anyone's still having it.
* [12:37] Yann Dufaux: or its on linux or windows , no difference?
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: it was a matter if you were in the group chat when you were kicked I believe...
* [12:37] Roberto Salubrius: I remember when the groups where in a very bad state you would kick people out of groups they still could talk to group, they spammed like crazy and other behaviors all of that is fixed now.
* [12:37] Soft Linden: What was happening with 3098 was that your viewer's "I'm leaving this session" message wasn't making it to the utility server. So the utility server was happily sending more chats, thinking you were still in session.
* [12:37] Soft Linden: The exiting session message could get lost the same way othe group chat could get lost.
* [12:37] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: so can't repro
* [12:38] Latif Khalifa: or fixed ;)
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: yes much better Latif :)
* [12:38] Roberto Salubrius: Latif I go with you on fixed... cause it was :)
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: feexed!
* [12:38] Moon Metty: :)
* [12:38] Soft Linden: Yeah, for now. It'll be back though. Until we properly master N * N session connectivity!
* [12:38] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-365 - Avatars rez as naked women when arriving at Orientation Islands 
* [12:38] Alexa Linden: LOL
* [12:39] Roberto Salubrius: LOL
* [12:39] Davy Linden: old!
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: hates that
* [12:39] Yann Dufaux: Haha
* [12:39] Imaze Rhiano: sounds fun
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: how old......
* [12:39] Soft Linden: We need to solve it the IRC way. Lots of stolen servers in datacenter back offices, etc.
* [12:39] Moon Metty: lol
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: nov 2008
* [12:39] Roberto Salubrius: well that was fixed when you took out good old ruth and replaced it with a cloud... I say fixed
* [12:39] Davy Linden: 07, last comment mar 08
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: fixed - no more ruth.... particles instead
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: ?
* [12:39] Moon Metty: yes, but naked clouds ..
* [12:39] Roberto Salubrius: Alexa I go with you..
* [12:39] Latif Khalifa: Soft, irc server can handle about 5-10k users, no need to steal to many of them :D
* [12:39] Alexa Linden: even worse!!!
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Ruth cloud "fixed" this. I'd rather we'd made it a more attractive woman. :<
* [12:40] Phantom Ninetails: lol, naked clouds
* [12:40] Roberto Salubrius: ok put some underwear on the clouds then :)
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: no doubt
* [12:40] Phantom Ninetails: lol Soft
* [12:40] Roberto Salubrius: I miss ruth !!!!!!!
* [12:40] Latif Khalifa: i miss her too ;)
* [12:40] Soft Linden: I love that we used to not only deliver every new user in world as a naked woman, but we'd elevate them a few feet above the ground in a Jesus pose. "LOOK AT ME!" How humiliating.
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: lord, I don't :(
* [12:40] Ardy Lay: The default skin should have looked like a crash dummy. :-)
* [12:40] Yann Dufaux: do you know if some noobs are connected with emerald on startup?
* [12:40] Roberto Salubrius: ( still you can see them on some third party viewers )
* [12:40] Phantom Ninetails: Yann, those noobs aren't really noobs
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: +1
* [12:41] Yann Dufaux: loll 
* [12:41] Latif Khalifa: Roberto, there is a debug setting for it :) RenderUnloadedAvatar or something like that
* [12:41] Soft Linden: Anyway. We can call this fixed.
* [12:41] Alexa Linden: kk
* [12:41] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3769 - Region settings reset upon region transfer 
* [12:41] Latif Khalifa: that will kikk the clouds
* [12:41] Roberto Salubrius: an nice... thx Latif :)
* [12:41] Latif Khalifa: kill
* [12:41] Phantom Ninetails: Hmmm classic ruth avatar is in the library..
* [12:41] Soft Linden: goes all cloudy. Aww yeah.
* [12:42] Alexa Linden: support
* [12:42] Soft Linden: I've evolved beyond the need for frivolous physical presence. Breathe my might.
* [12:42] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [12:42] Roberto Salubrius: 3769 that should be expected behavior... it's the same when you transfer land it resets most parameters... it keeps parcel media URL and parcel image but the rest goes.
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: yes
* [12:43] Latif Khalifa: Roberto, land ownership does not change if estate owner is changed
* [12:43] Latif Khalifa: so if this is happening it's a bug
* [12:43] Soft Linden: Let's import this for a look.
* [12:43] Roberto Salubrius: a Latif ok if land ownership changes then yes
* [12:43] Roberto Salubrius: that is baaaad
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: ok importing
* [12:43] Latif Khalifa: i think by region transfer they mean estete owner change
* [12:43] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-382 - Random Script run-time error Math Error on derez when llGetColor() is used within a timer event 
* [12:44] Davy Linden: I couldn't repro this
* [12:44] Latif Khalifa: i've seen that one
* [12:44] Imaze Rhiano: Can't reproduce this anymore - I think it is fixed
* [12:44] Moon Metty: me neither
* [12:44] Imaze Rhiano: from year 2007
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:44] Soft Linden: NMI, still happening, and ask for a sample asset if so
* [12:44] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:44] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4085 - Age Restricted Land Also Requires Payment Info On File to Access 
* [12:44] Latif Khalifa: and tell them to use change() event to detect color changes, no need for a timer
* [12:45] Soft Linden: I think I ran across this with an alt. Can we take it in to QA?
* [12:45] Alexa Linden: age verification and payment on file are 2 different processes
* [12:45] Soft Linden: Resi repro might be tough; would have to make new accounts for it.
* [12:45] Alexa Linden: I can run this by the AO team
* [12:45] Latif Khalifa: perhaps land owner has specificially requested payment info
* [12:45] Soft Linden: Yeah. They're supposed to be. But I *think* I've been locked out of an age-limited parcel for not having both.
* [12:45] Alexa Linden: yes exactly
* [12:46] Latif Khalifa: i see people confused with this
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: and that's what most of these end up being
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: I'll take this one
* [12:46] Soft Linden: Cool :3
* [12:46] Latif Khalifa: some lad owners set "age verified" as a requirement, so even if you have payment info you cannot get in
* [12:46] Latif Khalifa: and vice versa
* [12:46] Alexa Linden: yup yup
* [12:46] Yann Dufaux: sometimes, i can't enter in some region cause the age verified, and i have my age verified 
* [12:47] Alexa Linden: and I think even the land owners may be confused about who they are banning in this process
* [12:47] Soft Linden: It sucks. We set up all these test islands during the age restriction development? And there wasn't a single naughty thing on any of them.
* [12:47] Alexa Linden: LOL
* [12:47] Ardy Lay: Hehe
* [12:47] Moon Metty: lol
* [12:47] Roberto Salubrius: Soft not even a naked ruth ?
* [12:47] Skills Hak: i can enter adult sims fine but somehow age restricted parcels dont let me in
* [12:47] Phantom Ninetails: It would be nice if we could remove the "age verified" checkbox..
* [12:47] Soft Linden: Hmm mm. Just like - a boombox you click and it plays Soundtrack2 in a discernibly not-naughty fashion. And such.
* [12:48] Imaze Rhiano: seems to confuse people that checkbox
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: also make sure of the content levels you have set on your avatar/accounty
* [12:48] Soft Linden: next JIRA?
* [12:48] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4112 - Perms appear to be lost for llTakeControls(CONTROL_ML_LBUTTON, TRUE, FALSE) on flying. 
* [12:48] Soft Linden: yay :3
* [12:48] Imaze Rhiano: Can NOT REPRODUCE
* [12:48] Morgaine Dinova: That sad, Imaze :-(
* [12:49] Imaze Rhiano: tested byself and with my friend - with attachment that this guy gave for me
* [12:49] Roberto Salubrius: odd bug... easy to test get a popgun fly... if you can shoot it's ok
* [12:49] Object: Hello,: Avatar!
* [12:49] Roberto Salubrius: hello Object
* [12:50] Phantom Ninetails: Don't think I've ever encountered that 'bug'..
* [12:50] Roberto Salubrius: it's easy test
* [12:50] Liisa Runo: sometimes when 2 separate objects play with same controls, one of them objects loose perms
* [12:50] Yann Dufaux: LOL soft
* [12:50] Popgun (drag: onto yourself) whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to shoot me.
* [12:50] Popgun (drag: onto yourself) whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Yeah, let's import this guy.
* [12:50] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:51] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4169 - missing groups, unable to tp, tried everything 
* [12:51] Yann Dufaux: sorry if i laught 
* [12:51] Roberto Salubrius: perms still there
* [12:51] Soft Linden: is wounded! Not taken seriously!
* [12:51] Soft Linden: Contact support.
* [12:51] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:51] Moon Metty: ah, 4169 is a set of symptoms that is happening often
* [12:51] Imaze Rhiano: I think that was reason for this guys bug - he refused to take off his attachments for testing purposes
* [12:51] Soft Linden: Support can walk through a connection test and stuff.
* [12:51] Moon Metty: Ella, do you know what support does with these reports?
* [12:52] Soft Linden: It's very likely a lossy connection.
* [12:52] Soft Linden: Which we don't handle as well as we should. But they might be able to get him going at least.
* [12:52] Ellla McMahon: yes individual advice
* [12:52] Ellla McMahon: starting with the Traceroute
* [12:52] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4387 - Functions in Mono have huge memory overhead 
* [12:52] Latif Khalifa: Moon, is this like when your friend could not teleport for days?
* [12:52] Ellla McMahon: suggestions regraphics drivers
* [12:52] Moon Metty: some people can't tp for over a week
* [12:52] Moon Metty: and then suddenly they are able again
* [12:52] Latif Khalifa: something acount-wise got b0rked which prevented teleporting from workin for them
* [12:52] Soft Linden: NMI, ask them to post sample code if they're seeing a 1k difference before and after the change they describe
* [12:52] Roberto Salubrius: yes they are called bot campers ^^
* [12:52] Yann Dufaux: hug memory? like to crahs some regions on aditi?
* [12:53] Ellla McMahon: their ISP .. what thery are wearing ?
* [12:53] Moon Metty: and on alts it is possible to log in correctly
* [12:53] Moon Metty: it's a bit of a mystery
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: I had a friend that got a ring and couldn't TP for 2 weeks
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: 200+ prims and scripts
* [12:53] Latif Khalifa: yeah, i've heard reports about perma-teleport failures on per-account basis
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: all the new scuptie shoes with toes?
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: change the nail color, the skin color, etc
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: sya bye bye to TPs
* [12:54] Soft Linden: I'm always going on about over-scripted hair. A couple weeks ago I saw a new record, for me at least. Hair with 1,600 scripts in it.
* [12:54] Yann Dufaux: if i see some rendering cust of other avatar, some times its impressiv 
* [12:54] Moon Metty: i don't beleive attachments are the cause for this
* [12:54] Soft Linden: Had texturing, coloring, resizing, animation scripts
* [12:54] Latif Khalifa: Soft, we need llSetObjectScale() badly ;)
* [12:54] Soft Linden: No, that's not related to this issue.
* [12:55] Roberto Salubrius: Soft nice promo have a landmark to get ma a mane with 1600 scripts ^^
* [12:55] Soft Linden: For this issue: NMI, ask him to provide an example of what he describes, wrt moving code inline saving 1k
* [12:55] Imaze Rhiano: According Babbage average avatar have 100 scripts in her attachments
* [12:55] Alexa Linden: k
* [12:55] Moon Metty: Soft, we have to link all the reoprts ...
* [12:55] Soft Linden: Roberto, you don't waaaaaant it like that!
* [12:55] Moon Metty: it is a lot of work
* [12:55] Bug Triage: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4508 - Permission Change on old and new object from full perms to transfer perms after unlinking a single prim 
* [12:55] Skills Hak: <- 0 scripts \o/
* [12:55] Skills Hak: even clientside ao
* [12:56] Imaze Rhiano: what viewer supports clientside AO?
* [12:56] Skills Hak: it will be in emerald soon
* [12:56] Skills Hak: it reads zhao notecards etc
* [12:56] Skills Hak: and looks up animations in your inventory
* [12:56] Roberto Salubrius: I was wondering the same... that will be nice for breaking my buisness
* [12:56] Latif Khalifa: LSL AO's could be made 0 lag if only we had a way of detecting animation state change...
* [12:56] Soft Linden: Can we have this person run their test object by support? If they can't find a no-mod texture or such in the mix, they can pass the object on to engineering
* [12:56] Liisa Runo: and 80 of those 100 scripts are to go around silly limits that serve no purpose
* [12:57] Soft Linden: Or would someone else be willing to contact this resi, supervise a test?
* [12:57] Alexa Linden: soft, I can ask for a transferable testing item
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Yeah, maybe get the item and then pass the JIRA and the item to QA?
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: will do :)
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Cool :3
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: and I think that's it for today :)
* [12:58] Moon Metty: ok
* [12:58] Yann Dufaux: i love this bug triage meeting 
* [12:58] Soft Linden: :3
* [12:58] Soft Linden: Thanks for coming, all!
* [12:58] Alexa Linden: thank you all for your Ossm help and insight
* [12:59] Davy Linden: thanks all
* [12:59] Yann Dufaux: its an pleasure 
* [12:59] Skills Hak: cy