AW Groupies/Chat Logs/AWGroupies-2009-03-24

* [9:31] Saijanai Kuhn: yo
* [9:31] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Aimee
* [9:31] Aimee Trescothick: hey :)
* [9:32] Zha Ewry: HAH!
* [9:32] Zha Ewry: 
* [9:32] Latha Serevi: Thanks
* [9:33] Patnad Babii: good morning everyone :)
* [9:33] Morgaine Dinova: Zha, we were talking yesterday about how poor all this meeting media stuff is, in the context of VWs. I wonder if we can't can't raise it a level. Lisa did say that the IETF did realize it's a bit behind. Maybe VWs could give it a nice kick forward.
* [9:33] Zha Ewry: Waits for people to download the slab of PDF and staert screaming
* [9:33] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Pat!
* [9:34] TheBlack Box: *reading*
* [9:34] Zha Ewry: There's a yes but
* [9:34] Latha Serevi: Not at all, it's just what I didn't know I wanted!
* [9:34] Latha Serevi: (I thought yesterday's was just going to be reverse http
* [9:35] Zha Ewry: This was intended to be "What the heck are the furries and Goreans up to that the IETF might be interested in?"
* [9:35] Morgaine Dinova: Wow, you got through all those slides?
* [9:35] Zha Ewry: All but 1
* [9:35] Zha Ewry: You thought the audio quality was bad. Actually, I was just talking uber fast
* [9:35] Morgaine Dinova: lol
* [9:36] Zha Ewry: I spoke to every one of them, except the 3 random tech slides for wonderland, oliive, and such, which I spent about 10-20 seconds on
* [9:36] Zha Ewry: Basiclaly pasuing to talk about co-simulaition
* [9:36] Patnad Babii: is there a way to listen to that again in playback?
* [9:36] Latha Serevi: I'm on page 5. "the immersive space" might consist of many sub-spaces, hmm.
* [9:37] Morgaine Dinova: We've got to do something about slides sync in-world. It can't be all that hard to automate slide uploading to flickr or something, and for HTML-on-a-prim to show it, with xml-rpc switching or just polling.
* [9:38] Zha Ewry: I don't konw if thr IETF captures the stream.
* [9:38] Morgaine Dinova: Doesn't business already do that kind of thing, for presentations?
* [9:38] Latha Serevi: Silly me, slides weren't even on my to-do list, but should've been.
* [9:38] Morgaine Dinova: I mean just images
* [9:38] Zha Ewry: If they don't I am willing to set them up on a prim, and present them in world sometime, if people want the music along with the words
* [9:39] Morgaine Dinova: We're blind on just audio, and there is no need for it. SL can do better.
* [9:39] Zha Ewry: Dahlia arived dancing, and crashed hard?
* [9:40] Dahlia Trimble: crashed on teleport :/
* [9:40] Morgaine Dinova: Looks like Dahlia's been at a party, new look :-)
* [9:40] Zha Ewry: You showed up with much arm fluttering and no chat
* [9:40] Dahlia Trimble: :D
* [9:41] Zha Ewry: pauses to inspect Dahlia's boots
* [9:41] Dahlia Trimble: lol
* [9:41] Zha Ewry: So. Yeah, trying to follow at a distance is clearly a challange on the IETF front. The model seems to be
* [9:42] Zha Ewry: that they stream audio and have a jabber room up
* [9:42] Zha Ewry: Slides are *supposed* to be posted
* [9:42] Morgaine Dinova: The trend in SL high heels is nothing short of bizarre
* [9:42] Zha Ewry: My bad on missing that one out
* [9:42] Saijanai Kuhn: even google lively would have offered a better experience IMHO
* [9:43] TheBlack Box: slides 11 and 12 will be a lot of headache in the future i guess...
* [9:43] Aimee Trescothick: imagines there's an SL ER somewhere repairing all the broken ankles
* [9:43] Morgaine Dinova: Well now that we know, and given the large amount of time before the next meeting, we could try to knock up some media slides link for presentations, to work with Opensim too at the minimum.
* [9:44] Morgaine Dinova: LOL Aimee
* [9:44] Latha Serevi: I like the page 8 "spectrum of approaches".
* [9:44] Patnad Babii: i will take care of brigning the slides in world
* [9:44] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
* [9:44] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rex
* [9:44] TheBlack Box: hi
* [9:45] Dahlia Trimble: Hi :)
* [9:45] Belshazaroth Fargis: We meet at last!
* [9:45] Latha Serevi: I wonder if we should practice going over to Patnad's place, then, and make sure everyone's on the guest list?
* [9:45] TheBlack Box: hey Bel :)
* [9:45] Belshazaroth Fargis: I lol'ed
* [9:45] Belshazaroth Fargis: I am lagging, probably won't hear voice. is this a radio stream presentation?
* [9:46] Zha Ewry: There is not, text only
* [9:46] Belshazaroth Fargis: Shadown1Riorow7W7VqHsYkdvLPA==
* [9:46] TheBlack Box: is that your root-password ?
* [9:46] Belshazaroth Fargis: 6 pm is my next class...12:46pm now I have time to burn but can't connect to voice at the college's firewall
* [9:47] Zha Ewry: Nothing like watching security wonks argue over cost vs attack's blocked
* [9:47] Morgaine Dinova: Zha, there are some things in that document that are COMPLETELY inappropriate. For example, mandating long poll, a very specific solution imposed even before there problem space is defined. That's completely out of scope.
* [9:47] Belshazaroth Fargis: \
* [9:47] Morgaine Dinova: You're putting the cart before the horse, and trying to make the WG irrelevant.
* [9:48] Zha Ewry: It doesn't mandate it, it speak to the fact that, lacking any standard for two way, we're going to solve it like that, and it's very much in context for the IETF Area, which is specically looking for the use cases for a two way http pipe
* [9:48] Morgaine Dinova: There are plenty of standards for two way. Zero happened to pick just long poll, but COMET has others defined, and websockets is now also available.
* [9:49] Morgaine Dinova: "We're going to solve it like that" is completely inappropriate.
* [9:49] Morgaine Dinova: The WG is not you alone.
* [9:50] Saijanai Kuhn: well "we" in this case being AWG/OGP I think
* [9:50] Zha Ewry: Read slde 27
* [9:50] Zha Ewry: Actually read it
* [9:51] Zha Ewry: Think about exactly what it says
* [9:51] Zha Ewry: "The specificatoin models at two way pipe"
* [9:51] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, hang on, please comment on what Sai just said.
* [9:51] Morgaine Dinova: Are you speaking as AWG, or as MMOX?
* [9:51] Zha Ewry: We, being "ME" and my best read of what's been actually put into specs and proposal
* [9:51] Saijanai Kuhn: Morgaine I see little diff at this point as far as how to handle this specific issue
* [9:52] Zha Ewry: And.. read what I wrote
* [9:52] Zha Ewry: The language is pretty concise and clear
* [9:52] Zha Ewry: We model a two way pipe
* [9:53] Zha Ewry: At the moment, the only actually deployed code uses the eventquueue
* [9:53] Belshazaroth Fargis: listens to them argue and munches popcorn watching
* [9:53] Morgaine Dinova: Sai: I more or less agree that there is little difference, but there is a matter of principle here. Zha **within MMOX** has no right whatsoever to impose her solution on the WG. Just making that point clear.
* [9:53] Morgaine Dinova: "Right now" is pre-MMOX.
* [9:53] Saijanai Kuhn: sighs. Its made explicit that OGP is one specific solution within the MMOX problem space.
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: I'm imposing nothing
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: I explicitly called out the seperationg between the spec's model
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: "Two way pipe"
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: and the current prgamatic implementation "event queue"
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: When you provide
* [9:54] Zha Ewry: Either a spec, or an implementatoin that differs
* [9:55] Zha Ewry: You are welcome to engage in the discussion and testing and engineeering validation that the proposed solution is better than the one that currently works
* [9:55] Morgaine Dinova: Don't play Infinity's trick of "No spec, no discussion" on us please. The vast bulk of IETF Contributions are to *modify* existing specs, not to propose rival ones.
* [9:56] Zha Ewry: And, bring that work to the tabel, and expect it to be taken seriulsy
* [9:56] Saijanai Kuhn: and for whom it works. One protocol/implementation doesn't preclude others
* [9:56] Rex Cronon: morgaine, what do u think it should say?
* [9:56] Latha Serevi: Personally, I'm fine with the slides. It's the rest of what we have to do at the BOF that I'm worried about.
* [9:57] Morgaine Dinova: I expect a chair to always take contribuitions seriously, and to merge them into existing drafts. Indeed, we heard exactly that kind of thing happening in audio yesterday in multiple WGs. MMOX seems to be very non-conciliatory.
* [9:57] Dahlia Trimble: so these are the slides that were presented yesterday?
* [9:57] Latha Serevi: Yes, Dahlia.
* [9:57] Morgaine Dinova: Yep Dahlia
* [9:57] Latha Serevi: I don't think our BOF will be a success without proposing any non-OGP deliverables, or identifying non-OGP contributors, or getting acknowledgment from OGPers that they're willing to do some of the work to fit OGP into a larger MMOX framework that encompasses other approaches.
* [9:58] Rex Cronon: what slides?
* [9:58] Zha Ewry: The 45 minute, detailed discussion of COMETG, websocket, r-http, and Bosh made it very clear that there is esentially
* [9:58] Zha Ewry: no consensus on how to solve the two way http pipe stuff at the moment The vast majority of the discussion was on detailed long-polling issues
* [9:58] Latha Serevi: On the other hand, the "OGP can reasonably be IETF fodder" discussion is going fine.
* [9:58] TheBlack Box: Rex: 
* [9:58] Dahlia Trimble: rex: 
* [9:58] TheBlack Box: ;)
* [9:58] Rex Cronon: thank you:)
* [9:58] Belshazaroth Fargis: jinx
* [9:59] Latha Serevi: Zha, do you have any suggestions for who we might shanghai as Jabber-relayer-in-the-room?
* [10:00] Zha Ewry: We'll make sure we have a scribe on jabber, and hoepfully, the jabber stream up on the wall as well
* [10:00] Morgaine Dinova: Latha: oh sure, OGP as an IETF spec is fine, I wish we'd done that so that progress didn't have the current hurdles to overcome. Unfortunately this is MMOX though, not OGP.
* [10:01] Belshazaroth Fargis: needs definitions for the following acronyms: OGP, IETF, COMFTG, MMOX, WG, BOF,AWG
* [10:01] Morgaine Dinova: Belsh: you're in the wrong zone
* [10:02] Latha Serevi: It's nice for MMOX to have one developed piece that can be sold as IETF fodder. Now we just need my other three preconditions (a non-OGP deliverable, some non-OGP workers, an OGP promise to do some of the work of fitting in.
* [10:02] Zha Ewry: I am happy to have all of those
* [10:02] Belshazaroth Fargis: I'm interested in IBM's interoperability scheme, even if I'm completely rusted over on all the terms XD
* [10:03] Belshazaroth Fargis: I have an excuse: I'm 22 years old
* [10:03] Morgaine Dinova: Note that even OGP as a separate design group within MMOX is still going to have to be made extensible, otherwise no subsequent interop with the rest of MMOX is possible.
* [10:03] Zha Ewry: The goal, Morgaine, is clearly to build out services which we all want to use
* [10:04] Morgaine Dinova: What's "build out" in non-PR speak?
* [10:04] Zha Ewry: Take the current rough specs and make them broader, cleaner, and more complete
* [10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: and plausible interactive with other specs as they arise
* [10:04] Morgaine Dinova: Sai++
* [10:05] Morgaine Dinova: Your line alone is insufficient, Zha. It could mean anything
* [10:05] Morgaine Dinova: It could mean SL-only.
* [10:05] Morgaine Dinova: Enough PR speak please, we're techs.
* [10:06] Morgaine Dinova: The current spec cover about 10% of a full protocol, I estimate. What we do for the other 90% is the question.
* [10:06] Zha Ewry: The scope is explicitly beyond SL
* [10:07] Zha Ewry: That said, beyond SL, we have two specs, one of which is from Weblin's space, and the other is tied to no running code or example of it solving a real problem
* [10:07] Dahlia Trimble: I dont see any mention of high volume time dependent scene updates to clients, such as UDP. Is it assumed that there is a functional implementation demonstrating that Event queues over http are capable of this?
* [10:07] Morgaine Dinova: There is none, Dahlia. We're being sold a Brooklyn Bridge.
* [10:08] Latha Serevi: Hey, Morgaine, may I suggest we make an effort to be extra super nice today, while strongly stating our case? We'll probably get better results by the approach of "I'm your friend, but I need more hre and here."
* [10:08] Zha Ewry: There's been almost no discussion in the specs which are out there, yet, about the detailed client/sim pipes
* [10:08] Morgaine Dinova: This is one reason why I'm trying to get other forms of reverse pipe in, so that the whole thing doesn't congest.
* [10:08] Zha Ewry: I haven't muted Morgaine yet
* [10:09] Latha Serevi: Well, of course you can't mute Morgaine, but I don't want you feeling attacked all the time either.
* [10:09] Zha Ewry: But, random ad-hominen attacks and insults don't actually get me to pay much attention
* [10:09] Morgaine Dinova: Latha: yes, at the BoF. Here I'm being strong with Zha to make the point that some kinds of mandated positions are unacceptable. And it's only a taster of what you're going to get from JH and others.
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: Ummm
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: Morgaine
* [10:10] Morgaine Dinova: Yep?
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: I didn't mandate anything
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: I described the model
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: "Two way pipe"
* [10:10] Latha Serevi: Zha: consider your skin pre-toughened. ;-)
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: and pointe out that the current code and specs
* [10:10] Zha Ewry: use the long polling technqiues
* [10:11] Zha Ewry: we're barely even at the point of trying to model the UDP, the proper set of services between the sim and the client
* [10:11] Zha Ewry: I'd alsp point you very strongly at slide
* [10:11] Morgaine Dinova: OK, I'll assume that that's what was intended to be said.
* [10:11] Zha Ewry: 21
* [10:11] Morgaine Dinova: Looking
* [10:11] Zha Ewry: Where the event update strream pattern is explicitly pointed to as one of the key things we need to get right
* [10:12] Dahlia Trimble: I am a little concerned that some people may assume that long poll is being considered for time dependant scene updates
* [10:12] Zha Ewry: That's the root of client-sim, and sim-sim, and sim-burster-client*n
* [10:12] Zha Ewry: There's almost no spec sitting out there, in terms of the client/sim stuff at the moment
* [10:13] Zha Ewry: The UDP vs http modeling discussion is going to be wicked painful
* [10:13] Morgaine Dinova: Zha: well that stuff is all good, and clearly open to wider interop. Somehow the good words get lost in summaries and end up as "we will do this".
* [10:14] Morgaine Dinova: But I'm happy is that was not intentional.
* [10:14] Morgaine Dinova: if*
* [10:14] Dahlia Trimble: I'm not proposing that it wouldn't work, I just don't see where it's been shown to work
* [10:14] Zha Ewry: And. almost noobody has done good measurments on the long poll vs. UDP for the current trafic mix
* [10:14] Morgaine Dinova: COMET have, plenty.
* [10:14] Zha Ewry: I badly wanr that engineering done
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: Comet has some for thier traffic mix
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: If I had a magic wand, and infiite resources
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: (which I don't)
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: Saddly
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: I'd build out the full stack both ways
* [10:15] Zha Ewry: instrument the heck out of ti
* [10:16] Zha Ewry: and we'd actually see how it behaves in the wild
* [10:16] Dahlia Trimble: and test it with 50,000 users simultaneously ;)
* [10:16] Zha Ewry: I think.. to be honest, in my "best guess"
* [10:16] Zha Ewry: Oh, totally Dahlia
* [10:16] Zha Ewry: Or at least the hot spots like that
* [10:16] Morgaine Dinova: There is no protocol defined for reliable UDP streams, so unless that's presented as a draft, it's out of scope. I assume we're not inventing alternatives to TCP.
* [10:16] Zha Ewry: My best guess is that we'll end up with about 10% of traffic on UDP, all of which is "non reliable" in nature
* [10:17] Morgaine Dinova: That's fine.
* [10:17] Zha Ewry: But two observattions..
* [10:17] Zha Ewry: To agree, a bit with Jon
* [10:17] Zha Ewry: A lot of this gets vry client/sim specific
* [10:17] Dahlia Trimble: other than that, I think the slides look good :)
* [10:18] Zha Ewry: A lot of these discussions are on the edge of enginering of a product vs what a spec will say anyway
* [10:18] Morgaine Dinova: Well those are two different things. When IETF creates a routing spec, it's always significantly different to what Cisco implements.
* [10:19] Zha Ewry: The more you get into the "This UDP packet is how we send this low level event down the wire" and away from "There is a modeld connectoion between these components"
* [10:19] Zha Ewry: the strange some of it gets
* [10:19] Rex Cronon: i think that some of the slides are tooo crowded
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: Ahmm
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: About 2/3s of them Rex
* [10:20] Goldie Katsu: slideuments?
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: I find the "What are we doing" presentatoin
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: works well at 10 minutes
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: and 1 hour
* [10:20] Zha Ewry: 30 minutes is really hard
* [10:21] Zha Ewry: Gven the goals, and how the IETF works, I wanted the bulk of the ideas on the slides, even if they got dense
* [10:21] Dahlia Trimble: 30 minutes is enough to inspire some good happy hour discussions ;)
* [10:21] Goldie Katsu: (any place to see the slides for a latecomer)
* [10:21] Zha Ewry: DOing those in 30 seconds got me rated at running at .8 eckards
* [10:22] TheBlack Box: 
* [10:22] Rex Cronon: sadly, the more info u cram on one slide, the harder is going to be for the audience to make sense on it:(
* [10:22] Morgaine Dinova: Maybe narrow the number down for short presentations, otherwise it's like drinking from a firehose.
* [10:22] Zha Ewry: Eckarfd is the fastest regualr presenter at the IETF
* [10:22] Zha Ewry: and apparently I got to 80% of his speed
* [10:23] Zha Ewry: In spite of saying to my self "Slow, slow slow" repeatedly
* [10:23] Saijanai Kuhn: well just points out the need for metanomics style presentation. so you can do intro during non-IETF meeting complete with slides and voice
* [10:23] Goldie Katsu: yeah there are a lot of places where the slides have to be the documents.
* [10:23] TheBlack Box: "hard for the audience to make sense on it" i dont see a way around that really ... so much details ... i would be surprised if anyone who hasnt dealt with VWs yet will get much out of it ....
* [10:23] Zha Ewry: Actually, most people seemed to follow along
* [10:24] Zha Ewry: Most people were listenign to the pitch, which chery picked points
* [10:24] Zha Ewry: and.. a lot of people sat down and then read the slides after
* [10:24] Goldie Katsu: That is the better way
* [10:24] Zha Ewry: Which is sort of my goal
* [10:24] Morgaine Dinova: Well in uni lecturing you never just talk to slides, that's a recourse of bad lecturers. The minimum you do is gesticulate widely and draw all over them with a pen. :-)
* [10:25] Morgaine Dinova: wildly*
* [10:25] Morgaine Dinova: And widely :-)
* [10:25] Goldie Katsu: lol
* [10:25] Zha Ewry: hmm
* [10:25] Dahlia Trimble: which makes it more fun for note-taking students :/
* [10:25] Zha Ewry: Wow. Surivied a spontanous hibernate
* [10:25] Zha Ewry: My box is getting hot
* [10:26] Zha Ewry: .
* [10:26] Rex Cronon: does it have problems processing the slides:)
* [10:26] Belshazaroth Fargis: pulls out a hair dryer and blows hot air into her case
* [10:26] Morgaine Dinova: So these same slides are the full set for today too?
* [10:26] Latha Serevi: I forgot to be impressed that Zha is in-world at all, while being in the RL conference room.
* [10:26] Zha Ewry: Go no
* [10:26] Zha Ewry: *god no
* [10:27] Morgaine Dinova: Ouch
* [10:27] Zha Ewry: Today, is 5 minites per submission
* [10:27] Zha Ewry: (Jon Watte, for example, ptiching LESS)
* [10:27] Rex Cronon: u have 5 minutes to present that?
* [10:27] Rex Cronon: good luck
* [10:27] Zha Ewry: and a discussion on scope, and how this ties to IETF ongoing work
* [10:27] Morgaine Dinova: OK. Will today's OGP 5 minutes be referring to this slides set?
* [10:28] Morgaine Dinova: (just trying to find a way to sync our visuals)
* [10:28] Latha Serevi: Any ideas on how we remote folks can get access to this afternoon's slides? Seems problematic yet useful.
* [10:28] Zha Ewry: Zero and Infitiy get to pitch the material they've put scope into
* [10:28] Zha Ewry: and.. let me see
* [10:28] Morgaine Dinova: Aha
* [10:28] Latha Serevi: Anybody got a camera phone? :-o
* [10:28] Morgaine Dinova: Are Z+I's materials available?
* [10:28] Zha Ewry: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/74/materials.html
* [10:28] Zha Ewry: take a look under MMOX on that page
* [10:29] Dahlia Trimble: will be battling southern california traffic at the time of the meeting :(
* [10:29] Rex Cronon: maybe a link on the awt wiki page to where the slide are located would be good:)
* [10:29] Rex Cronon: awg*
* [10:29] Morgaine Dinova: OK, I'll chase that lot up and add BoF links to my page
* [10:29] Zha Ewry: The BOF is gong to be a different kind of fire hose
* [10:30] Zha Ewry: and.. I'm going to go find a qiuet corner and tweak my slides and get them up there
* [10:30] Zha Ewry: (The X.509 bit, about 5 slides, not heavy weight)
* [10:31] Zha Ewry: My goal for the BOF is far less about presenting
* [10:31] Morgaine Dinova: Listening to those WG meetings later, it was noticeable how relaxed they were. Hope we get there eventually.
* [10:31] Zha Ewry: and far more about listenign and looking for points of synthesis
* [10:31] Zha Ewry: (Oh, just five minutes ago
* [10:31] Zha Ewry: someone said "So, you're proposing a solution that doesn't actual work but take a lot of work to implement?"
* [10:32] Zha Ewry: This in a security group
* [10:32] Dahlia Trimble: lol
* [10:32] Zha Ewry: So, its not all sweetness and light
* [10:35] Morgaine Dinova: Conversely though, the HIP meeting was covering many alternatives without any sign of conflict, and the routing group had specs out and was just polling "Have any of you implemented our spec yet?", and the congestion control group was actively asking participants to give them more ideas to agree on.
* [10:35] Zha Ewry: And.. I need to go lock myself in a quiet corner and bash slides
* [10:35] Rex Cronon: it might be possible that this whole itef might have been a little premature as there are't a lot of concrete example of how it works:(
* [10:35] Zha Ewry: Oh, there's all of thre anove
* [10:35] Dahlia Trimble: has to prepare for an all afternoon class... bye all, good luck Zha :)
* [10:35] Morgaine Dinova: So it is often all sweetness and light, yet open./
* [10:35] Rex Cronon: bye dahlia
* [10:35] Morgaine Dinova: Cya Dahlia
* [10:35] Zha Ewry: I think its about time to be here
* [10:36] Goldie Katsu: Cya
* [10:36] Latha Serevi: Shall I send a message to the MMOX list with a reminder of the remote access info and meeting time, and adding the two sets of slides - today's via a pointer to https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/74/materials.html ... and also yesterday's from Zha, 
* [10:36] Goldie Katsu: Thanks for the recaps
* [10:36] Latha Serevi: ?
* [10:36] Goldie Katsu: That would be good.
* [10:36] Zha Ewry: because, honestly it takes serious time to get stuff in the pipe and into people's heads
* [10:36] Zha Ewry: please do
* [10:36] Morgaine Dinova: Well we have no concrte examples of how interop can work, except from Opensim. OGP doesn't currently do almost anything, whereas Hypergrid is a full working solution.
* [10:36] Morgaine Dinova: So by all accounts, we should be starting to spec hypergrid :P
* [10:37] Goldie Katsu: lol
* [10:37] Morgaine Dinova: That being the leading contender :P
* [10:37] Morgaine Dinova: Just shows how far we are from being "fair" :-)
* [10:37] Latha Serevi: Patnad, I want to learn more about what you're planning for this afternoon.
* [10:38] Goldie Katsu: of course "leading contender" doesn't necessarily mean best solution or scalable solution
* [10:38] Zha Ewry: I welcome, very seriously, hyprgrid actually doing some spec work, and gettign engaged.
* [10:38] Zha Ewry: But.. I've got hypergrid regoins running
* [10:38] Goldie Katsu: but I was pleased to see the # of proposals and that they were from varioius groups.
* [10:39] Goldie Katsu: And since nothing has been decided it's hard to say fair/not fair on the focus of the work.
* [10:40] Goldie Katsu: (Other than that there is a BOF which will present various propsals that have been put forward)
* [10:40] TheBlack Box: g2g ... thanks Zha ! i think you are right ... currently it is a lot about "getting things into ppls heads" ... good luck for later !
* [10:40] Rex Cronon: zha is gone?
* [10:41] TheBlack Box: ah :)
* [10:41] Saijanai Kuhn: morgaine, though, Hypergird doesn't "do" what OGP does (and visa versa).
* [10:41] Patnad Babii: i have setup a meeting area.. with a chat bridge that allow us to talk between the grids.. ive been trying to add jabber to it but it isnt done yet
* [10:41] Patnad Babii: also i will have the slides setup
* [10:41] Saijanai Kuhn: patnad, great
* [10:41] Morgaine Dinova: Goldie: I was pleased too, because multiple proposals gives substance to real mult-VW interop. From our SL perspective, interopping SL and Opensim is great ... but it's not the ambition of inter-VW that MMOX represents.
* [10:41] Latha Serevi: Patnad, remind me, what's the slurl for your SL space, and the URL for your meta-page?
* [10:42] Goldie Katsu: However I think the reason that Hypergrid isn't there is that a documented proposal wasn't presented. It is hard to standardize on something in a few people's heads.
* [10:42] Patnad Babii: ill try to setup jabber before the meeting start but i dont garantee that will work
* [10:42] Latha Serevi: And will you really be requiring pre-registration?
* [10:42] Goldie Katsu: I do hope to see something from the hypergrid work.
* [10:42] Patnad Babii: this it to register for the event at my place: 
* [10:43] Goldie Katsu: Is there a jabber client for windows?
* [10:43] Saijanai Kuhn: pigeon
* [10:43] Goldie Katsu: or rather what is a jabber client for windows.
* [10:43] Saijanai Kuhn: pidgen?
* [10:43] Goldie Katsu: thanks
* [10:43] Patnad Babii: yes you can download pidgin
* [10:43] Saijanai Kuhn: which is pidgin for "business english" by the way
* [10:43] Goldie Katsu: cool. Jabber on mac is easy but I may be on my windows box.
* [10:43] Patnad Babii: as for the URL of my place ill need to post it later because im still setting up
* [10:44] Morgaine Dinova: Patnad: I'm already an IETF participant in MMOX, working under NOTEWELL. That registration is inappropriate for those already in MMOX
* [10:46] Patnad Babii: well i made that form so i will add people to my restricted parcel..
* [10:46] Patnad Babii: and making sure everyone read the notewell
* [10:47] Morgaine Dinova: I'll kill one of my 25 groups if you have a parcel group that allows access.
* [10:47] Patnad Babii: no need
* [10:47] Morgaine Dinova: Temporarily of course
* [10:47] Patnad Babii: im adding your name temporarly
* [10:47] Morgaine Dinova: Oh, that's nice of your Pat, thanks :-)
* [10:48] Goldie Katsu: ok I have to head back to other matters.
* [10:48] Goldie Katsu: Thanks all
* [10:48] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Goldie
* [10:48] Rex Cronon: tc
* [10:48] Latha Serevi: Patnad, could you paste a SLURL here and let me know if I'm on the list? (I did fill out yoru form last week)
* [10:48] Rex Cronon: i am leaving too
* [10:48] Rex Cronon: so bye everybody
* [10:48] Rex Cronon: have fun
* [10:48] Morgaine Dinova: Bye Rex
* [10:49] Patnad Babii: yes i already added you LAtha
* [10:49] Latha Serevi: What would you like me to put in any announcement, btw, Patnad - just ?
* [10:49] Morgaine Dinova: I'll add Patnad's site to my MMOX page on SL wiki
* [10:50] Patnad Babii: yeh, this is all temporary im still working on putting up the site mmox.org
* [10:50] Latha Serevi: I still can't find out where to TP to, Patnad.
* [10:50] Patnad Babii: i will send you the slurl as soon as i get there :)
* [10:50] Morgaine Dinova: Patnad: that would rock!
* [10:50] Latha Serevi: I'm gonna go there this afternoon with my avatar (and then ignore SL in favor of the audio stream and jabber)
* [10:51] Morgaine Dinova: I'd like to do as Latha too
* [10:51] Patnad Babii: well if all go well jabber will be inworld.. just need to finish coding it :)
* [10:51] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
* [10:52] Patnad Babii: ok ill get back to work :)
* [10:52] Patnad Babii: see you later folks
* [10:52] Latha Serevi: Good luck on that, - would be great - I could even drop the SL to IRC bridge object down and make a Frankenstein monster Jabber-SL-IRC bridge. :-O
* [10:52] Morgaine Dinova: Give us the URL when you can Pat
* [10:52] Morgaine Dinova: Frankenstein++
* [10:52] Saijanai Kuhn: closing out chat log
* [10:54] Latha Serevi: I'm preparing a text file with my pre-written questions and comments for the BOF Jabber channel. Will let me winnow and refine them a bit.
Category:Grid_Interoperability_Chat_Logs
Category:AW_Groupies_Transcripts
Category:MMOX