Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-04-13

13:04 	Yuzuru  	Hello Oz
  	Office Orb  	mail_to set to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Start transcription to oz@lindenlab.com
  	  	Transcript will be sent to: oz@lindenlab.com
  	Oz Linden  	hi everyone
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Hi Oz, AnnMarie, Yuzuru
13:05 	Oz Linden  	Let's get started ... OPEN issue triage first
  	  	OPEN-64
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-64
OPEN-64 SandboxViolation error installing 0.8.5 autobuild on Mac with 0.6.14 distribute
13:06 	Oz Linden  	hmmm....
  	  	MacOS 10.5...
  	  	accepted, but since there's a workaround...
13:07 	  	OPEN-63
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-63
OPEN-63 3p-qt: Fails to build on windows
13:08 	Oz Linden  	looks like it's got a fix... I'll get that reviewed and try it on our farm
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Is the fix complete?
  	Oz Linden  	don't know...
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Looks like it only adds the missing dir
13:09 	Oz Linden  	anyone want to volunteer to repro it?
13:10 	  	storm-1098
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1098
STORM-1098 Debug setting ShowNetStats has wrong description
  	draconis.neurocam 	that was just merged
  	Oz Linden  	yes, it was
  	  	frankly, I don't think this is worth much more time
  	  	anyone who understands it is not going to be confused,
13:11 	  	and no one else will really understand it no matter what you label it
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	by "who understands it", do you mean "who already knows what the setting is supposed to do"?
  	  	Then we can as well have no description.
13:12 	Oz Linden  	Who understands what network latency, packet loss, and bandwidth really are
  	AnnMarie Otoole  	Sure understand the symptoms.
13:13 	Oz Linden  	The symptoms of what?
  	AnnMarie Otoole  	latency, packet loss and bandwith :)
13:16 	Oz Linden  	I just think this is an example of Inside Baseball.... worrying about minutia that very very few people know about and even fewer actually understand, and so not spending time on things that affect users
13:17 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Dunno ... misleading descriptions might lead to even fewer users understanding it.
  	draconis.neurocam 	its still something useful to point people to that may be having issues, or for people who want data, it should be more well known that it is, but yes the description is fine now
13:18 	  	its not entirely misleading anymore, even though the name is more obvious anyway
  	Oz Linden  	Look at this list:
  	  	https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%%3D+STORM+AND+fixVersion+%%3D+open-developer+AND+status+%%3D+Open+ORDER+BY+priority+DESC
13:19 	  	lots of those are things that lots of SL users would appreciate and use every day
13:20 	draconis.neurocam 	i am not saying they arnt
13:21 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Some of them are already assigned :-)
  	Oz Linden  	If there's to be a healty open source program (and you should not take for granted that there will be _any_ open source program), then we need to spend more time on things people notice
13:23 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Oh, you mean like STORM-1147 ? :-P
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1147
STORM-1147 Other avatar's loose clothing\ flared cuffs look like they are tight\got no flare in v.2.4.0 and higher
  	Oz Linden  	yes, that's one is a real success story
  	  	I'm not saying it's not happening at all
  	  	it is, and the impact is good
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	I don't think so. Took much too long.
  	Oz Linden  	it could be even better, though
13:24 	  	it did take too long
13:26 	  	I don't mean to sound too grumpy....
  	  	it's been a tough couple of weeks
  	draconis.neurocam 	its ok oz
13:27 	Oz Linden  	So... since we've got some free time on the agenda....
  	  	what are the top 2 features you'd pick from some other TPV to put in the SL viewer? Boroondas first : 2 features
13:28 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	uh, dunno. I don't use TPVs much.
  	Oz Linden  	draconis?
  	draconis.neurocam 	extra and improved build features, more support for uploading content
  	Oz Linden  	that's pretty vague - what upload support?
13:29 	draconis.neurocam 	the ability to test an animation in world pre upload to see if it works, support for .anim files which allows for creation of deformed avatars, stretched limbs etc
13:30 	  	more support for content creators
  	  	basically
  	  	that already exist elsewhere
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	I guess something like local texture support would fall into the same category?
  	draconis.neurocam 	yes
  	Oz Linden  	ok... AnnMarie ... 2 features
13:31 	AnnMarie Otoole  	I'll work on it. My human has to run to the RL Post office.
  	Oz Linden  	can't bring himself to tell her there are no fish her
  	  	ok
  	  	Yuzuru: 2 features
13:32 	Yuzuru  	Flexible function of sculpted prim.
  	AnnMarie Otoole  	Ooo deleted scripts go to trash!!
  	Oz Linden  	we've actually got an issue on that AnnMarie.... just saw it yesterday....
  	AnnMarie Otoole  	:) Cool
13:33 	Oz Linden  	I've heard conflicting folklore on flex/sculpt
  	  	but that's not a TPV feature....
13:34 	  	I want stuff I can go get :-)
  	draconis.neurocam 	flexis already are terrible, the limitations on them lead them into a life if little use, the patch has existed on jira for a while though
  	  	the flexi sculpt one
  	Yuzuru  	I must learn more..
  	Oz Linden  	oobscrure : 2 tpv features
13:35 	oobscure  	1) one-click access to sky presets menu
  	  	2) one-click access to draw distance
  	  	1 is in imprudence, 2 in kirstens. and maybe others
  	Oz Linden  	I rather like the draw distance idea myself....
  	  	by sky presets, you mean the Windlight sky presets?
13:36 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	looks through the Imprudence feature list. Hmm ... "Spell Checking" sounds good.
  	draconis.neurocam 	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-9203 is the flexible sculpt one just for reference
  	Office Orb  	VWR-9203 Flexible Sculpted Prims
  	Oz Linden  	Imprudence has spell checking?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Apparently.
  	Oz Linden  	hmmm.....
13:37 	  	is a terrible speller
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Imprudence:Features#Preferences_.2F_Settings
  	Ima Mechanique  	sorry I'm late, no IRC warning again :-(
  	Oz Linden  	Ima... I'm quizzing
13:38 	  	people - name 2 features from TPVs that you'd most like to see in the SL viewer
  	draconis.neurocam 	chuckles to himself "oz i could give you a never ending list"
13:39 	oobscure  	back. sorry. Yes Oz, I meant that. the dropdown menu in Advanced Sky editor.
  	Oz Linden  	don't want a never ending list
  	  	that's not useful
  	draconis.neurocam 	i know
  	  	it was a side remark
13:40 	Oz Linden  	we're working on Windlight....
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Good :-)
  	oobscure  	yeah, saw a lot of new issues filed by torley
  	Ima Mechanique  	eeeeek
  	Oz Linden  	We're rethinking some of the ui... I'd be surprised if they included a one-touch change
  	oobscure  	tracked in https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1126
  	Office Orb  	STORM-1126 Windlight Region Settings
13:41 	Oz Linden  	we're much more interested in making region settings work
  	oobscure  	another TPV feature .. IIRC, Firestorm has more buttons available in bottom toolbar. I find them useful
  	Oz Linden  	they display now in our test viewer, and you can sort of edit them, but the ui needs work
  	  	well, they allow the sidebar tabs to be bottom bar buttons
13:42 	  	and make room by turning them into icons
  	oobscure  	I didn't use it much yet but I think I liked that, better than current viewer
13:44 	  	ah, MediaFilter
  	  	not using it myself yet but i think it should get into SL viewer
13:45 	Oz Linden  	I'm testing a version of that....
  	Ima Mechanique  	Oz do you want specific features from specific TPV's or would general be okay?
  	Oz Linden  	don't know what will happen when I propose it
  	oobscure  	:s
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	what can happen?
  	Oz Linden  	I want something specific enough to actually do
  	  	not "fix the ui"
13:46 	Ima Mechanique  	ahh, well I was going to say a colour scheme I can work with.
  	Oz Linden  	I don't get to just check in anything I feel like....
  	  	Ah... colors
  	Ima Mechanique  	but I can make that Firestorms skins if you preefer ;-)
  	Oz Linden  	That's definitly on my list... configurable colors
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	SNOW-614
  	Oz Linden  	no, full blown skins will never happen
13:47 	  	they are too big a support problem
  	Ima Mechanique  	I also love what they've done to the bottom bar and side tray
  	Oz Linden  	color schemes, though, are possible
  	oobscure  	I don't know if this is in any TPV, but should be easy : click on time label -> the Events floater opens and shows current events
  	Ima Mechanique  	those are the biggest steps to making v2 useful/useable for me
  	oobscure  	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-17022
13:48 	Office Orb  	VWR-17022 Clicking on the current time in the Viewer should bring up events happening right now.
  	oobscure  	85 votes
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Um ... Oz .... your virtual dog might be drowning ... :-/
  	Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ  	how about return object to last position from inventory. should be simple and a lot of people would appretiate it
  	Oz Linden  	That sounds like a neat idea, but it's an issue that another team would handle if it was done
  	oobscure  	oh ok
13:49 	Ima Mechanique  	hehe how about a fantasy feature. I'd love dual times UTC/P[DS]T
  	Oz Linden  	For right now, I really want TPV features that exist, not good ideas in general
  	Dɐuʇıɐ Goʇɥןʎ  	search by creator in inv.
13:50 	oobscure  	oh right that one
  	draconis.neurocam 	return to last position is in most tvps
  	Oz Linden  	explain that one... I don't know what it is
  	draconis.neurocam 	basically, if someone gets something returned to them, like a giant build or something
  	  	right click in inventory, and it puts it in the same place
13:51 	  	saves headaches
  	Kraptacular Kat  	that makes sense
  	  	who does that?
  	  	what TPV?
  	Oz Linden  	I still don't get it
  	draconis.neurocam 	phoenix, and imprudence
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Imprudence:Restore_to_Last_Position
  	Kraptacular Kat  	I need to check that out
  	Oz Linden  	what do I click on and when ... and I'm going to invoke my favorite Clarity Rule: No Pronouns allowed
13:52 	Kraptacular Kat  	I just got here and I understood it :/
  	draconis.neurocam 	you right click the object you want replaced to the last in world position when you want to put it back
  	Oz Linden  	ah...
13:53 	  	see, all this time I thought you were talking about the position of the object in the inventory
  	draconis.neurocam 	ah sorry
  	Oz Linden  	you're not following the No Pronoun rule ("it" is a pronoun)
13:54 	  	You'd be amazed at how much the ambiguity of English is reduced by not using pronouns
  	draconis.neurocam 	the object = it
  	Oz Linden  	The list of Caveats on that web page is pretty scary
13:55 	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	http://xkcd.com/174/
  	Oz Linden  	I suspect that if we shipped that, we'd get beaten up for shipping a flakey half-baked almost-feature
  	oobscure  	which had previously been removed for the same reason
13:56 	  	no?
  	draconis.neurocam 	most tpvs dont have the qa ll does
  	oobscure  	another TPV feature that seems very useful is Area Object Search - Imprudence > Advanced menu
  	Ima Mechanique  	AnneMarie, does the shoe-bling help the fishing?
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Is there a way to fully bake it so we don't have to ship it half baked?
  	Kraptacular Kat  	snhiney flashy things attract fish
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	I guess the problem is that the region isn't recorded server-side, just the in-region position.
13:57 	Oz Linden  	well, for example, it sounds to me as though what gets saved is the location within the region
  	oobscure  	Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area. by name, description, owner and group.
  	Oz Linden  	100,15,24 kind of thing
  	  	but not the region
  	oobscure  	I should have waited. sorry.
  	Oz Linden  	if I restore an object to a location that's inaccessible, I've lost it
13:58 	  	features that lose inventory are not very popular :-(
  	draconis.neurocam 	fair enough
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	SL needs an "undo" button.
  	Oz Linden  	What is Area Object Search
  	  	?
  	draconis.neurocam 	ctrl z
  	Yuzuru  	it is good to restore only rotation.
13:59 	oobscure  	Area Object Search (not a pronoun) looks for objects in local area .. by name, description, owner and group.
  	draconis.neurocam 	it basically lets you search object names in scene by the client
  	Oz Linden  	A general Undo is impossible in SL
  	oobscure  	it has a separate floater
  	draconis.neurocam 	the feature*
  	Oz Linden  	the intereactions are far too complex
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	yeah, I know
14:00 	Office Orb  	Your timer has expired!
  	Oz Linden  	what's the range?
  	oobscure  	http://wiki.kokuaviewer.org/wiki/Area_Object_Search
  	  	not sure
  	Oz Linden  	sounds like it could be handy when shopping.....
14:01 	draconis.neurocam 	last i looked at the code when object area search was in emerald it was anything in draw/ the client could see
  	Kraptacular Kat  	yes it would
  	Oz Linden  	if the store actually gave objects names and descriptoins
  	Ima Mechanique  	for me it would be handy when building, lose prims all the time
  	বরুনদাশ গুপ্তে  	Probably the object has to be within view distance, so that the viewer knows about it?
  	Kraptacular Kat  	also good trying to find a griefer object
  	Oz Linden  	I've bought more than one "Object"
14:02 	  	Interesting....
  	  	Listen ... this has been great, but I've got to go ....
  	Office Orb  	End transcription
  	oobscure  	boroondas : you can teleport to
  	  	thanks Oz
  	Yuzuru  	Thank you Oz.
  	draconis.neurocam 	take care oz