Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.04.15

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
Hexapoda 	Inara Pey
Jenna Felton 	Kallista Destiny
Kelly Linden 	Lucia Nightfire
Mona Eberhardt 	Oz Linden
Rex Cronon 	Ron Khondji
Tankmaster Finesmith	Whirly Fizzle
Yuzuru Jewell 	
== Transcript ==
[11:58] Ron Khondji: hello
[11:58] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Kell... Errrr...
[11:58] Mona Eberhardt: New avie?
[11:58] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Kelly.
[11:58] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[11:59] Inara Pey: Is that one of the new defaults, Kelly?
[11:59] Manji's TYPE-962 model-A v 1.0 whispers: Use PgUP and PgDOWN to operate the manual transmission.
[11:59] Inara Pey: Hey, Rex!
[11:59] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Rex.
[11:59] Jenna Felton: hi Rex
[11:59] Kelly Linden: No it is not.
[11:59] Jenna Felton: hello Kelly
[11:59] Kelly Linden: And hello.
[11:59] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[11:59] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
[11:59] Yuzuru Jewell: Hellp, Rex.
[11:59] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello.
[12:00] Inara Pey: Looks good.
[12:00] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[12:00] Jenna Felton: Kelly's Avie i do like
[12:00] Mona Eberhardt: Indeed, it does.
[12:00] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Whirly!
[12:00] Jenna Felton: hello Whirly
[12:00] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Whirly.
[12:00] Whirly Fizzle: Heya everyone :)
[12:00] Inara Pey: Hai Whirls!
[12:00] Hexapoda: Hello Siwo.
[12:01] Kelly Linden: Hello everyone and as the Meeter says, welcome to Server User Group
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi kelly
[12:01] Rex Cronon: hi whirly
[12:01] Seewo (siwo): hi there
[12:01] Kelly Linden: Simon is out today so I will be leading the discussion today.
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Hexapoda. My car can be used single seat..
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Siwo.
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Qie.
[12:01] Qie: Hi Mona, all.
[12:01] Kelly Linden: Deploy info is on the forums as usual: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-04-14/td-p/2643360
[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Qie.
[12:02] Kelly Linden: Magnum is getting a new maintenance RC with stability fix and hopefully a fix for BUG-5533
[12:03] Kelly Linden: I think that is the only planned update this week.
[12:04] Jenna Felton: i have tried to find that bug at aditi at Tehama. It was gone for me
[12:04] Kelly Linden: And that is all I have as far as news goes this week.
[12:04] Kelly Linden: Table is open for topics.
[12:05] Hexapoda: Fixing mesh avarar load bug, any plans?
[12:05] Kelly Linden: Qie: nope, it is unrelated.
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: if it had, that would have been fixed in the early stages
[12:05] Qie: thanks.
[12:05] Kelly Linden: Hexapoda: I don't know. Jira#?
[12:06] Hexapoda: Nor do I, but small mesh avatars often look like a monster for me and I has to fly to a percel with privacy and back to reload them.
[12:06] Whirly Fizzle: Oh, you mean when the deformer anims havnt loaded properly, like with petites?
[12:07] Whirly Fizzle: Or Lucia's horse :P
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: you mean my tiger
[12:07] Whirly Fizzle: Looked like a horse >.<
[12:07] Whirly Fizzle: :D
[12:08] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3416
[12:08] Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[12:09] Yuzuru Jewell: It shows "Permission Violation".
[12:09] Kelly Linden: Ahh that looks like it is a viewer bug, and I don't have any more information on it.
[12:09] Lucia Nightfire: its not public atm
[12:09] Tankmaster Finesmith: on what?
[12:09] Whirly Fizzle: Isnt there a fix for that in the sunshine viewer? I don't know if it fixes all cases but there were def fixes in there for better joint position loading.
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Oz!
[12:09] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Oz.
[12:10] Kelly Linden: Hello Oz.
[12:10] Oz Linden: hi all
[12:10] Whirly Fizzle: Heya Oz
[12:10] Inara Pey: Hey, Oz!
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: I have a question
[12:10] Rex Cronon: hello oz
[12:10] Tankmaster Finesmith: that looks more like a statement
[12:10] Kelly Linden: Yes Lucia?
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: are we all gonna be forced into having to explicitly agree to a teleport when we click teleport uri's in the next viewer release?
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: MAINT-575 I think it is
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: oops
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: MAINT-535
[12:12] Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5536
[12:12] Kelly Linden: I'm not up to date on that issue Lucia, so I don't know. Checking now
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: you know what I mean though right
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: we have to confirm we want to tp after clickign a tp uri, heh
[12:13] Whirly Fizzle: Its "fixed" in the maint-RC but you have to agree to the teleport
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: I'm sure that is going ot piss off plenty people
[12:14] Oz Linden: the issue is that it's possible to create something that looks like some other sort of URL, but is really a teleport URI
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: lol, to say the least
[12:14] Whirly Fizzle: It broke the Bunny gag too lol
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: then maybe make onyl labeled uri's have the confirmation
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: otherwise, the viewer changes the label to "Teleport To <location>
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: for app/teleport uri's
[12:16] Whirly Fizzle: It also causes https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5702
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: if anything only labeled url's need protection or at least protection by default that can be turned off in debug
[12:17] Kelly Linden: Sorry Lucia I've tried to get my head around the state of that issue and what will be in the next release but it isn't something I feel comfortable commenting on while just reading about it now. It is a decidedly non-trivial issue.
[12:17] Oz Linden: I hadn't seen this before just now either
[12:17] Whirly Fizzle: The fix for Lucia's issue also causes https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5710. I don't know if this is important but it was previously blocked for security reasons a long time ago.
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: yeah a bunch of legit uri's are currently affected
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: unlabeled ftm
[12:18] Jenna Felton: perhaps its a better idea to mark all API links differently, or by a symbol attached to it telling what sort of URL it is
[12:18] Jenna Felton: like a link in a wiki
[12:18] Whirly Fizzle: The fix is worse then the original problem I think heh.
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: Teleport to Denby (218,42,32)
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: see what v3 does to the uri
[12:18] Lucia Nightfire: for tp uri's that is
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: that tells you its a tp uri, but if it was labeled it could be anything
[12:19] Oz Linden: that fix is in one of the current release candidates (the Maint one)
[12:19] Whirly Fizzle: Ya
[12:19] Oz Linden: whether or not that will be the next general release viewer remains to be seen
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: but you see where I'm coming from when I say only labeled url's really need protection
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: the label makes it look liek anything
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: at the very least I'd hope that there is a debug setting the user can turn off, heh
[12:21] Oz Linden: hmmm... I'm not sure... that is based on the assumption that users can correctly interpret URLs when they can read them. I don't know about SL users specifically, but I would argue that isn't true of web users in general
[12:21] Whirly Fizzle: Not all cases of the label hiding a link are fixed either
[12:22] Oz Linden: What should we call the setting, Lucy? LetTheHackerLinksZapMe ? :-)
[12:22] Jenna Felton: a friend of mine was very furious after a clicking on such a link which was wear-a-folder link
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: NotBugMeWhenIClickMyOwnURLs()
[12:22] Rex Cronon: is the viewer going to popu a help wizard that points to that link/uri and say: look. we have a uri here:)
[12:23] Rex Cronon: to popup*
[12:23] Whirly Fizzle: lol the bunny link was fun :D I got Oz with that last Easter *looks innocent*
[12:23] Oz Linden: I don't know what the specifics of that change are... but any of you can test it
[12:23] Jenna Felton smiles
[12:23] Jenna Felton: it took for me a quite long time to explain that was not a grief
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: a change like that that the user can't disable at their own risk isn't as welcome
[12:25] Seewo (siwo): If I may... Since LL is now looking for a "fraud agent" I assume it was finally acknowledged as an existing issue. So once again, I'd like give more publicity to https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-422 :)
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: if the exp perms are worth anything then one of then will allow a parcel owner to block public selling, heh
[12:26] Rex Cronon: we have fraud agents?
[12:26] Lucia Nightfire: didn't even open that linnk, but I know what it was
[12:27] Kelly Linden: I don't know of any similar feature related to experience perms.
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: afaik, exp perms are gamer oriented
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: like pf
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: at least with what I've seen that is
[12:31] Kelly Linden: There are two parts to experience permissions, broadly speaking. The first is the ability to grant script runtime permissions more broadly than on a per script basis - to subscribe to an 'experience' and in effect accept permissions to all scripts in that experience for most script runtime permissions, with at least one obvious exception.
[12:31] Kelly Linden: This includes the ability to manage (revoke) the experiences you are 'in'.
[12:32] Kelly Linden: The second broad category are some unique features tied specifically to experiences. These are generally script features and related to the idea of larger collections of content working together.
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: llRequestExperiencePermissions()
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: when will we possibly get to see the list of constants
[12:34] Tankmaster Finesmith: later
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: hehe
[12:34] Tankmaster Finesmith: possibly
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: I've seen some weird sounding constant names too
[12:35] Jenna Felton: Thank you Kelly for explaining that
[12:36] Tankmaster Finesmith: pathfinding came out of the experience tools
[12:36] Kelly Linden: tankmaster - it may be more accurate to say that the project(s) that lead to pathfinding also lead to experience tools.
[12:36] Tankmaster Finesmith: ah
[12:37] Kelly Linden: There is no direct overlap.
[12:37] Tankmaster Finesmith: still, tied together
[12:37] Oz Linden: only in the sense that both are intended to enable the creation of richer content behavior
[12:38] Kelly Linden: Exactly as Oz says.
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: perfect wording
[12:38] Jenna Felton: pathfinding does not use any permissions afaik. not sure how it would be connected to experience tools
[12:40] Tankmaster Finesmith: experience isnt just about permissions, afaik
[12:40] Kelly Linden: 'experience tools' may have been a broader category at one point that included both experience permissions and pathfinding. Pathfinding has been released though and there may be some features in the future that require experience permissions that may be better served by the experience tools label.
[12:41] Jenna Felton: hmm, ok. thank you :)
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: if you read into all that it tl's as "You'll see when it gets here."
[12:42] Kelly Linden: :)
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: "Be patient."
[12:42] Whirly Fizzle: "Soon"?
[12:42] Kelly Linden: Soon(tm)
[12:42] Kallista Destiny: When it's ready ™
[12:42] Whirly Fizzle: Ahh that soon lol
[12:42] Rex Cronon whispers: hopefully won't have the same effect as v2 arrival;)
[12:42] Jenna Felton: i just connected the experience tools to the permissions only :) however, thank you for explanations
[12:43] Jenna Felton: that (tm) looks funny
[12:44] Kallista Destiny: <ALT+1+5+3>
[12:45] Rex Cronon: i have to say that it looks weird when somebody is developing "experience tools" for users without having user being part of the process:(
[12:45] Kallista Destiny: Not at all, they are still seeing what they can do, users input comes later.
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: doesn't that go for any feature ?
[12:46] Whirly Fizzle: I thought the moles were banging on exp tools.
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: the only problem is when its a feature that isn't modular then user input is too late
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: and you're stuck with a limited feature that could have been much better with content creator feedback
[12:49] Rex Cronon: it like when somebody say i am going to make u a new bed and does it without asking u want u want and one night when u go to sleep u see that your bed is now to small for u, and too hard to sleep on it but now u r stuck with it;)
[12:49] Seewo (siwo): :D
[12:51] Kelly Linden: 9 minutes left - any other topics?
[12:51] Kallista Destiny: You're assuming that 'eperence' will be presented as a cast in iron product, not as a starting point.
[12:52] Tankmaster Finesmith: when will the next super sekret project be announced? :P
[12:52] Rex Cronon: u r assuming that ll can read our minds and that ll will be willing to go back and redo the whole thing if its wrong:)
[12:52] Kelly Linden: tankmaster, I don't know! Probably not today.
[12:52] Oz Linden: right before we deploy it :-)
[12:53] Tankmaster Finesmith likes Oz's response better :D
[12:54] Seewo (siwo): a little bit off-topic, when will open registrations for SL11B? >:)
[12:54] Jenna Felton stil laughs about Kelly's one
[12:54] Kelly Linden: Seewo: I don't know that either.
[12:54] Seewo (siwo): :/
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: what projects are you working on lately, Kelly?
[12:57] Kelly Linden: super sekret projects
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: I knew it, heh
[12:57] Kelly Linden: :D
[12:57] Whirly Fizzle: Wow, I just noticed, Kelly has no bling today
[12:58] Kelly Linden: I know whirly. :( I feel naked.
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: new moon out
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Blood moon, at that.
[12:58] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:59] Inara Pey: No... not a new moon.
[12:59] Inara Pey: Full Moon. and a total lunar eclipse.
[12:59] Kelly Linden: When I first started at LL I changed my AV drastically every year for about 4 years. Then I created the blinged out AV and stuck with that for the last 6 years or so.
[13:00] Kelly Linden: But that avatar was both dated and broken from testing broken attachments and not being able to quite fix her again. So it was time for a new one.
[13:00] Whirly Fizzle: Ahh that explians why the blinged out av wears invisiprims ;)
[13:00] Kelly Linden: but now I have to recreate all my bling.
[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of invisiprims...
[13:00] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Kelly and Oz.
[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: Do you think there'll be a way to hide the water?
[13:01] Kelly Linden: Yes Meeter. Thank you everyone for coming. Today I actually have another meeting I need to jump to right away.
[13:01] Mona Eberhardt: For instance, in the part of a boat that's under the waterline?
[13:01] Whirly Fizzle: Ty Lindens
[13:01] Kelly Linden: See you all next week, or maybe at the Thursday Beta user group.
[13:01] Oz Linden: Bye all
Simulator_User_Group
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