Content Creation/Scripting User Group/Transcripts/2011 11 28

== List of Speakers ==
Ardy Lay
flexi campfire
Kopilo Hallard
Leonel Iceghost
Vincent Nacon
== Transcript ==
[09:00] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Hey Kelly.
[09:00] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hello
[09:01] Kopilo Hallard: hey
[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Good morning.
[09:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Sorry about missing last week
[09:01] Ardy Lay: Good morning
[09:02] Nal (nalates.urriah): I was crushed... :(
[09:02] tehKellz (kelly.linden): :(
[09:03] Vincent Nacon: sorry, was in the wrong place
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): My daughter decided to be allergic to her penecillin that morning. :-/ Anyway, all better now.
[09:03] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Eep.
[09:03] Nal (nalates.urriah): Wow... glad she is ok
[09:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm in a bit late this morning sorry. Trying to gather what news I have.
[09:04] Nal (nalates.urriah): Monday after a holiday... it is probably a bit hectic
[09:04] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think we have a new 'drtsim' 116, which is 111++, for server maintenance probably going to RC this week
[09:05] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It has a lot of stuff in it actually
[09:05] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): omg, Charlie isn't a tree.
[09:06] Vincent Nacon: huh.... not a tree anymore, eh?
[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden): oh, was doing some things that needed legs
[09:06] Charlie (charlar.linden): and arms
[09:06] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Jonathan took over his job as one.
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So 116 has: llTransferLindenDollars, llGetParcelMusicURL
[09:06] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): :)
[09:06] Vincent Nacon: yeah... now I can't tease a tree
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-230
[09:06] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-230
[#SCR-230] llSetPhysicsMaterial() fails if you don't have modify perms
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-147
[09:06] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-147
[#SCR-147] Timer event fails to trigger following heavy amounts of linked messages
[09:06] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-225 (I think)
[09:06] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-225
[#SCR-225] ERROR: Failed to set physics shape type
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SVC-7422
[09:07] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7422
[#SVC-7422] llSetLinkMedia do nothing
[09:07] Charlie (charlar.linden): I always want to please the residents...
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SVC-7413
[09:07] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7413
[#SVC-7413] Bug in Control Event
[09:07] tehKellz (kelly.linden): And a whole bunch of server crash and memory leak fixes
[09:07] Vincent Nacon: it's just not the same anymore
[09:07] Vincent Nacon: :P
[09:07] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): And thar be tree again.
[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Was the llSetMemoryMemory bug that causes the viewer and scripts to read an avatar's total memory incorrectly not fixed?
[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): I'm still seeing it on the stable branch.
[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): SetMemoryLimit*
[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): I'm not THAT tired, jebus.
[09:08] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think that was thought fixed a while ago. If you are still seeing it could you file a new jira?
[09:08] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Sure.
[09:09] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Thanks
[09:09] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Heh, reproed by resetting my tail script.
[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I think that is all the news I have.
[09:10] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Table is open for other topics.
[09:11] Leonel Iceghost: llGetGender :P
[09:11] Vincent Nacon: sounds.... sounds! ssssssssouund!
[09:11] Vincent Nacon: was wondering if it's ever possible to improve sounds LSL function options?
[09:11] Vincent Nacon: or maybe like FMOD?
[09:12] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): What do you want improved?
[09:12] Vincent Nacon: I'm not really the best person to ask but I know there's alot of people wanted to see better sound functions
[09:12] Vincent Nacon: stuff like blend, fade, pitch change, etc etc
[09:13] Vincent Nacon: or FMOD
[09:13] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): I actually have a JIRA somewhere for parcel-based settings such as echo and reverb.
[09:13] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Viewer uses FMOD on Windows and OS X, OpenAL on Linux. :p
[09:13] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): FYI, Storm-591 is in the pipline
[09:13] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-591
[#STORM-591] As a music fan, I want audio to fade in gently so my immersion is increased
[09:14] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): Echo and reverb would require some low-level coding to work with fmod and openal
[09:15] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm not really an expert on sound.
[09:15] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Well, FMOD already supports those functions.
[09:15] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): OpenAL I think via extensions.
[09:15] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): Right now the viewer plays what you send it, with volume adjusted for distance
[09:16] Vincent Nacon: I was thinking more like upload FPD files
[09:17] Kopilo Hallard: audio to fade in, uhh wouldn't that just come down to the original sound files?
[09:17] Vincent Nacon: it's a FMOD Designer saved file, I know... but I meant as one whole package
[09:17] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): storm-591 is about music streams
[09:17] Vincent Nacon: a scripted sound file
[09:17] tehKellz (kelly.linden): In general adding new types of assets to upload is tricky, and making sure scripts, the server and viewers all know how to deal with them is also tricky
[09:18] Vincent Nacon: aye
[09:18] Vincent Nacon: also something like llPlaySoundAt()
[09:18] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If you have some more solid ideas it would be good to get them into a SCR feature request jira to gather thoughts.
[09:19] Kopilo Hallard: do we have the ability to request parcle information yet? :p
[09:19] Vincent Nacon: instead of starting from beginning... could start playing from a given timeline in MS
[09:19] Vincent Nacon: ms*
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kopilo: What parcel information do you want?
[09:19] Kopilo Hallard: media stream
[09:19] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): You can get reverb now by playing the same sound in several locations at the same time. Each source starts playing at a slightly different starting time, so you get some kind of effet
[09:19] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I've definitely seen jiras for ways to synch sounds.
[09:20] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Kelly: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7490
[09:20] flexi campfire: [#SVC-7490] llSetMemoryLimit causing viewer and scripts to read avatar memory total incorrectly
[09:20] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Thanks Koli
[09:20] Kopilo Hallard: :D
[09:20] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): Kelly, to synch sounds I think you'd need 1 "play" packet from the server that points to multiple sound sources
[09:21] Leonel Iceghost: if you do llPlaySoundAt it would be nice to play a sound at one side for a hud (only to the owner)
[09:21] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Koli: That is definitely a different repro than the other bug.
[09:21] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): Ah.
[09:22] Vincent Nacon: llPlaySoundAt would help me with engine sound to play them based on RPM's range
[09:25] tehKellz (kelly.linden): All right. Last call for topics before I bring up triage.
[09:25] Vincent Nacon: yeah.... can't play half way of a wave file to switch RPM
[09:26] Vincent Nacon: hmm that's all I got
[09:26] Kopilo Hallard: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-239 ?
[09:26] flexi campfire: [#SCR-239] llGiveInventory() with feedback
[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Really, really hard.
[09:27] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Coming soon...
[09:27] Kopilo Hallard: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-242 ?
[09:27] flexi campfire: [#SCR-242] llResetOtherScript has no effect on a script stopped with llSetScriptState
[09:27] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, it used to be that the money one was hard, then we added new technology - a new backend we called L$ API - that made it pretty easy.
[09:27] Kopilo Hallard: that's not a feature though
[09:27] Kopilo Hallard: ahhh
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): The inventory transaction is in a similar place - right now it is really really hard and will take new back end technology being in place to be made possible.
[09:28] Kopilo Hallard: but getting feedback about items being recieved is difficult?
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Kopilo: With the current system, yes.
[09:28] Jonathan (jonathan.yap): Part of the issue with scr-239 is that declined inventory no longer goes into the Trash folder
[09:28] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Because the actual transfer doesn't occur until the person is logged in to accept or decline it.
[09:28] Kopilo Hallard: how about running a query post "payment"?
[09:29] Leonel Iceghost: Kelly, there is a new api for those folders of marketplace right?
[09:29] Kopilo Hallard: ahh
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Leonel: That is the kind of thing that will help. Once that system is fully in place we will have to take a look at how it can be integrated with LSL. It is likely to behave differently than current llGiveInventory* functions
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Probably mostly in good ways.
[09:30] tehKellz (kelly.linden): :)
[09:30] Leonel Iceghost: nice
[09:30] Kopilo Hallard: :)
[09:31] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I made a tweak for SCR-242 semi recently. I think the last maint-server project.
[09:31] Kopilo Hallard: :D
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It should work for some cases of crashed scripts now.
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): But not all, and not for manually disabled scripts.
[09:32] Kopilo Hallard: awesome
[09:32] Kopilo Hallard: probably best if it is unable to restart manually stopped scripts
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): oh wait
[09:32] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I was thinking of the wrong jira
[09:33] Kopilo Hallard: ahhjh
[09:34] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Hrm.
[09:35] walter789: oi
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): It does sound like a bug.
[09:35] walter789: oiiiiii
[09:35] Kopilo Hallard: it is
[09:35] walter789: no inglÃªs
[09:35] tehKellz (kelly.linden): k I acknowledged it.
[09:36] tehKellz (kelly.linden): But it isn't gonna make it onto a priority backlog for a while.
[09:36] Kopilo Hallard: yeah
[09:37] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So, I'm gonna close SVC-5040
[09:37] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5040
[#SVC-5040] Script performance dropped on regions deployed on class 7 hardware since rolling restart (12 nov 2009)
[09:38] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Old stuff...
[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm pretty sure script performance is better than it has ever been now. though it is possible class 5s still outperfrom class 7s for script performance.
[09:39] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Thought I'd bring it up one last time to hear if there were any loud objections before I closed it. :)
[09:39] Kopilo Hallard: :)
[09:39] Vincent Nacon: the LAG! it's so bad!
[09:40] Vincent Nacon: naa close it
[09:41] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Done! Glad to have that one cleared off my assigned list.
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): okay, 19 minutes left. Guess we can get a couple triage issues: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?requestId=14052&mode=hide
[09:42] Leonel Iceghost: I'm sure that one was tricky
[09:42] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Skip the first 3 as usual.
[09:42] Vincent Nacon: RayCast?
[09:42] Vincent Nacon: err CastRay
[09:43] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-199 . Yes cast ray
[09:43] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-199
[#SCR-199] Reduction/removal of llCastRay limitations
[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That one is still falcon's, I'm gonna pop it off this list.
[09:44] tehKellz (kelly.linden): SCR-79
[09:44] flexi campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-79
[#SCR-79] llMatchGroup() - Checks if an object or agent is active in a specified group.
[09:47] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Could be useful... Or else if OBJECT_GROUP could work on avatar, we could write the needed function in LSL
[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden): OBJECT_GROUP doesn't work for avatars because that isn't information that is generally available.
[09:48] Leonel Iceghost: I would prefer a way to know if they _have_ the group, not just actived.. I think activating groups for doing things is old fashoned
[09:48] tehKellz (kelly.linden): I'm not really sure that requiring the script to know the UUID first is that different though.
[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): The group people are currently on isn't a private info... It's visible.
[09:48] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Me too... Knowing if somebody is in a group is what is really useful...
[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is much more invasive.
[09:49] Leonel Iceghost: you can do it by opening the group...
[09:49] Leonel Iceghost: and searching the list of members
[09:49] tehKellz (kelly.linden): If you have access to the member list
[09:50] Leonel Iceghost: the script requesting should have the group
[09:50] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): If the check is limited to the group of the object, it's no big deal to me... Either the ppl are in the group or not. They don't need to hide to the group they belong... that they belong...
[09:50] tehKellz (kelly.linden): So that would be llInSameGroup(key target) ? Don't allow the object to specify the group?
[09:51] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): That would be a big step forward!
[09:52] tehKellz (kelly.linden): These feature suggestions are kinda muddled. I don't see an existing one for that suggestion, or am I missing it?
[09:52] Vincent Nacon: I can't even understand it yet
[09:52] Leonel Iceghost: LL should get rid of actived groups... for everything! having to change the group to build in a land that is ours has no much sense
[09:53] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Pretty much, all scripters want the same thing: Not to have to tell to ppl that they must specifically activate a group to be able to use a group-only object.
[09:53] Vincent Nacon: even that I can understand
[09:53] Vincent Nacon: I meant I don't understand why it haven't been like that
[09:53] Leonel Iceghost: maybe instead of creating a new function, you could modify the existing one
[09:54] Leonel Iceghost: llSameGroup()
[09:54] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): My client overrides that. I always rez in the group of the land... If I'm in it, of course.
[09:54] Leonel Iceghost: Kaluura, it doesn't work in all lands, for some reason
[09:54] tehKellz (kelly.linden): That is a nice feature Kaluura
[09:54] Ardy Lay: SOme times we want our items rezzed to be subjected to auto-return.
[09:55] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Changing the group of the object some times would be a lesser burden...
[09:55] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Would content break if llSameGroup changed to check all groups and not active group? Are there cases where you really *do* care that the group is active specifically?
[09:55] Leonel Iceghost: you can change the group of the object to none, and make copies Ardy
[09:56] Leonel Iceghost: I don't think so Kelly, the only thing that changes is the title
[09:56] Ardy Lay: Our land has been in use by us for longer than 8 years. We do not like having temporary playthings fill it up because they got away before would could untag them.
[09:57] Vincent Nacon: I doubt there would be much of a breakage, Kelly
[09:57] tehKellz (kelly.linden): 8 years is quite a run.
[09:57] Ardy Lay: Yup
[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Could someone write up that proposal then - for llSameGroup to change behavior? We'd need to gather quite a bit of feedback to make sure we aren't missing an important use case.
[09:58] tehKellz (kelly.linden): 2 minute warning. Any parting shots?
[09:58] Vincent Nacon: for the last 5 years, I don't even recall anything that would justifty in being active group at all
[09:59] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): Me neither... Being in a group is what really matters.
[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): having it 'see' all the users groups would make things much easier
[10:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Avoiding all kinds of ugly hacks
[10:01] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Will the ugly hacks start to break? It seems like anything with ugly hacks would just start working on the shorter path that would have worked if they had the group active now.
[10:01] Ardy Lay: Perhaps you want a scripted item to warn someone that they have the land ownership group active when entering a private sandbox area. "Danger! The junk you are about to rez MAY require manual cleanup!" :-)
[10:02] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I would think that the ugly hacks would most likley be bupassed.
[10:02] Kaluura (kaluura.boa): heheeheh
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): Okay! Thanks all for coming out this week.
[10:03] tehKellz (kelly.linden): See you next week.
[10:03] Vincent Nacon: np, take care
[10:03] Leonel Iceghost: thank you Kelly
[10:04] Koli Contepomi (sahkolihaa.contepomi): See you kelly.
[10:04] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Perhaps next week I'll be on time...