Mesh/Archive/2011-04-04

== Agenda ==
# Can you update us on recent progress and what your curent priorities are? Anything in particular we can test for you?
# Are we there yet?
# Seems like almost everything is broken. What's going on? [Drongle McMahon]
# Have you seen the error of your ways and decided to allow UUID swapping for meshes yet? -Stickman
# Could you invite Rod to come and talk to us next week perhaps, about his support for the mesh project and give us some hint of a timeline?
# Will avatar physics interact with rigged meshes, or will it be completely separate? - Draconis Neurocam
# Where is "Torus Forest"? -Yuzuru Jewell
== Notes ==
*[2011/04/04 11:04] Reed (reed.steamroller): thats what i thought
*[2011/04/04 11:04] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): its in me peferences advanced now
*[2011/04/04 11:04] Rex Cronon: we all got boobies? lol
*[2011/04/04 11:04] Reed (reed.steamroller): no grid chooser is mega l4m3
*[2011/04/04 11:05] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): the grid chooser
*[2011/04/04 11:05] JR4201 Kruyschek: k, i want take snapshots of this Lindens ;))
*[2011/04/04 11:05] Reed (reed.steamroller): ohp found it
*[2011/04/04 11:05] davep (runitai.linden): I want to see a montage of mesh bugs set to "Yakkity Sax"
*[2011/04/04 11:05] Stickman: I tried to take a snapshot of Aki and their floating eyeballs, but my Linden balance is empty.
*[2011/04/04 11:05] Nyx Linden: +1 davep
*[2011/04/04 11:05] Jeremiah Pintens: Hey, so is mine
*[2011/04/04 11:06] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): stickman save to comp and upload it to one of those image hosting sites, and post the link
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Latif Khalifa: have some fake money
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Charlar Linden: ok, ready to start?
*[2011/04/04 11:06] davep (runitai.linden): also, don't cross the street in the middle
*[2011/04/04 11:06] JR4201 Kruyschek: nah! i`ll place them at my HDD and then upload in the main grid ;))
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Stickman: Naw, it wasn't worth it. So I gave up.
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): yes indeed Charlar
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Reed (reed.steamroller): Charlar, before we start...
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Stickman: Thanks Rex, but the moment is gone!
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Nyx Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/UserGroup
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Reed (reed.steamroller): We all had a general question we'd like answered.
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Nyx Linden: agenda ^
*[2011/04/04 11:06] Reed (reed.steamroller): That question would be: WTF?
*[2011/04/04 11:07] Reed (reed.steamroller): answers?
*[2011/04/04 11:07] Vincent Nacon: give him a moment
*[2011/04/04 11:08] Charlar Linden: sorry, I'm back
*[2011/04/04 11:08] Charlar Linden: first topic:
*[2011/04/04 11:08] Jeremiah Pintens: Welcome back.
*[2011/04/04 11:08] Latif Khalifa: merge of the new inventory api gone bad?
*[2011/04/04 11:08] Charlar Linden: Can you update us on recent progress and what your curent priorities are? Anything in particular we can test for you?
*[2011/04/04 11:09] Reed (reed.steamroller): at teh moment no, because nothing works!)!*@$*
*[2011/04/04 11:09] Nyx Linden: I'm still working on render cost - hope to have things to test next week :)
*[2011/04/04 11:09] davep (runitai.linden): also working on streaming cost -- trying to do some analysis of prim based scenes and compare to mesh based scenes
*[2011/04/04 11:10] davep (runitai.linden): (see torus forest)
*[2011/04/04 11:10] Drongle McMahon: That's interesting Runitai. I hope you can show us some results.
*[2011/04/04 11:10] Nyx Linden: yeah we know things are messed up atm, we're working on fixing that too :)
*[2011/04/04 11:10] davep (runitai.linden): (just committed a work in progress on a "scene statistics" console)
*[2011/04/04 11:11] Brookston Holiday: What seems to be teh problem?
*[2011/04/04 11:11] Charlar Linden: seems like it's related to inventory, it's not mesh specific
*[2011/04/04 11:12] Nyx Linden: but we're still investigating :)
*[2011/04/04 11:12] Stickman: The end user will have access to these statistics, Runitai?
*[2011/04/04 11:12] davep (runitai.linden): yes
*[2011/04/04 11:12] davep (runitai.linden): develop->consoles->scene statistics
*[2011/04/04 11:12] Nyx Linden: more data for the win!
*[2011/04/04 11:12] Stickman: Nice. Thank you.
*[2011/04/04 11:12] gully Aabye: yes no problems with mesh can upload and rez the ones uploaded at the current seesssion
*[2011/04/04 11:13] davep (runitai.linden): right now it just graphs object sizes and object triangle counts
*[2011/04/04 11:13] davep (runitai.linden): for attachments and prims inworld
*[2011/04/04 11:13] davep (runitai.linden): and gives you min/max/median/mean of these, with total triangle counts
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Charlar Linden: Next item:
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Charlar Linden: Are we there yet?
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Charlar Linden: uh, no, not yet
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Bloodsong Termagant: this was a short week.
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Vincent Nacon: stop asking that!
*[2011/04/04 11:13] Charlar Linden: but we get closer every week
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Vivienne Daguerre: lol... no!
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Vincent Nacon: YES! :P
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Charlar Linden: Look at the torus forest!
*[2011/04/04 11:14] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): torii forii
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Vivienne Daguerre: He's poking me, and he's looking out my window!
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Drongle McMahon: Are you sure, Charlar?
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Charlar Linden: about the torii?
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Drongle McMahon: That we are getting closer.
*[2011/04/04 11:14] Charlar Linden: I am sure
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Stickman: Assuming none of the Lindens are actively working to destroy the mesh product, I think even if unplanned things take over the list for a week, we're sitll getting closer.
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Michi Lumin: Are we still looking at end of May?
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Vincent Nacon: it will be done when it's done
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Stickman: The end of May was never announced. It was implied.
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Charlar Linden: I often look at the end of May, but I don't know what that has to do with Mesh
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Latif Khalifa: for duke nekem?
*[2011/04/04 11:15] Skygirl Kline: lol love these trick questions
*[2011/04/04 11:16] Vincent Nacon: no, that's in June
*[2011/04/04 11:16] Aki (aki.shichiroji): it was only implied because Falcon said he wanted an av by then :P
*[2011/04/04 11:16] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): It wasn't even really implied.
*[2011/04/04 11:16] Charlar Linden: OK, so next item?
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Stickman: I want to make an Ides of March comment, but it's April now.
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Charlar Linden: Seems like everything is broken. What's going on?
*[2011/04/04 11:17] JR4201 Kruyschek: dammits, some of my clients projects will be in the hold for more time because i will refuse to loose my time making what they want in sculpties, lol
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Charlar Linden: Not everything is broken, obviously
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Stickman: Chat works!
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Stickman: So do clouds!
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Latif Khalifa: almost everything
*[2011/04/04 11:17] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): how is mesh going to work with the new avatar physics stuff, or will it just work under it for mesh clothes?
*[2011/04/04 11:17] Vincent Nacon: bad business practice, JR4201
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): almost everything. I cant load my inventory and I am a cloud and I have to get a TP to get here
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Charlar Linden: Defintely there is a problem with something around inventory, and we're looking into what's wrong.
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Drongle McMahon: And Ruth.
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Jeremiah Pintens: Between the clouds and the ruths, I feel like I should be standing in front of a map with a pointy stick
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): lol
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Bloodsong Termagant: you're just overdressed :P
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): so the word of the day is "angry"
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): a
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): n
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Charlar Linden: wheeee
*[2011/04/04 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): g
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Reed (reed.steamroller): r
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Reed (reed.steamroller): y
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Reed (reed.steamroller): angry
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Stickman: Hey, the letters came out in the right order!
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Stickman: Success!
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Latif Khalifa: hey at least that came in the same order
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Latif Khalifa: lol
*[2011/04/04 11:19] JR4201 Kruyschek: Vincent: RL rules, i will not loose my time modelling things in sculpties if it would give 20 or 40 times less work modelling in mesh, SL sculpties pay bad compared to RL 3D modelling
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Charlar Linden: ok, so next item:
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Reed (reed.steamroller): Lets use it in a sentence...
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Latif Khalifa: Stickman, what does it tell you when we get impressed by the correct chat order ;)
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Stickman: Reed, use it in a sentence in my next question.
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Rex Cronon: on my screen "angry" came between r and y
*[2011/04/04 11:19] Charlar Linden: Have you seen the error of your ways and decided to allow UUID swapping for meshes yet? -Stickman
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Stickman: *angry face* :D
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Reed (reed.steamroller): The residents are *angry* because their shit don't work.
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Stickman: Oh wait, >:(
*[2011/04/04 11:20] JR4201 Kruyschek: Vincent, here is a good rule: don`t let your SL drive your RL
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Stickman: No need to curse. This is just the beta grid after all.
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Nyx Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Why_UUID_Flipping_is_Bad
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Reed (reed.steamroller): lol
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Reed (reed.steamroller): why uuid flipping is bad
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Latif Khalifa: half of that wiki page is pure nonsense
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Reed (reed.steamroller): thats awesome
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): the Lindens are right about uuid flipping
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Stickman: Yes, I read that. And it's been rebutted with very well written arguments that haven't been counter-addressed.
*[2011/04/04 11:20] Eata Kitty: only if its used for animation
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Reed (reed.steamroller): if its available, it will be used for animation
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Reed (reed.steamroller): just playing devil's advocate
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): rigging is better, even morphs if they are implemented with parametric deformers
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Stickman: I agree. If it's available, it will be misused. So will meshes. So will chat. So will SL.
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): there is no reason on earth to uuid flip it can all be done better another way
*[2011/04/04 11:21] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): They could do things to discourage animation with it.
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Stickman: But that shouldn't stop legitamite people from using it for legitamite reasons.
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Reed (reed.steamroller): yes, they should stop all of that nonsense
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Reed (reed.steamroller): if you can't play nice, you can't play at all
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Latif Khalifa: hypatia, for things like a beanbag with two states rigging is way overkill
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Stickman: Anyway, the point is.
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): I personally think the way blue mars implemented morphs was absolutely genius
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Stickman: Can we, in any way, get LL to change their mind about UUID swapping.
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Rex Cronon: uuid flip? u mean using the uuid of a mesh to chage the shape of a prim? like with sculpties?
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): (you can start flaming now)
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): lol
*[2011/04/04 11:22] Nyx Linden: there are mechanisms that would be *nice* to have for animation, but UUID filpping is not the right way to go.
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Stickman: Not about animations, Nyx.
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Eata Kitty: I understood that it would be added just throttled to the point where it would be useless for animation
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Stickman: About other utility.
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): We aren't talking about animatioin.
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Brookston Holiday: When they "throttle" people just use multiple scripts.
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Nyx Linden: as for the non-animation uses of UUID flipping, we're not convinced that we have the time and cycles to properly restrict UUID flipping to work well only for non-animation cases
*[2011/04/04 11:23] Latif Khalifa: Brookston, nonsense
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Brookston Holiday: Latif, thank you
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Stickman: Ah, so the anti-animation issue is so severe it can take over the other side of it. I see.
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Nyx Linden: so we are disabling UUID flipping If you want to swap items, you can make them invisible or rez them
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Eata Kitty: Great, despite the fact it is incredibly useful? It lets you change objects in ways that is impractical with alpha, it's also hugely more efficient
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Stickman: Are there plans to enable it later?
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Latif Khalifa: there are ways to limit resources per sim, lookup http reqiests in lsl, educate yourself
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Nyx Linden: not currently stickman
*[2011/04/04 11:24] Eata Kitty: Two and half years of mesh development and we can't even get UUID changes in?
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Vincent Nacon: DAE supports animation.... no need to flip UUID
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Nyx Linden: we definitely have bigger fish to fry so to speak
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): why do you need to flip though? cant you just rez the mesh you want to rez
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Once again,,,this topic is about animation.
*[2011/04/04 11:25] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): how is mesh going to work with the new avatar physics stuff, or will it just work under it for mesh clothes?
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Stickman: Mesh animation will be done with custom bones, as far as I know. Not included in the original release.
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): *isn't
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Rex Cronon: u might need to morph from a apple to a banana:)
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Eata Kitty: I use UUID changes a ton to allow users to customize their objects with changing parts
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Brookston Holiday: draconis, new avatar physics stuff, have a link for that, havn't heard of it before?
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Latif Khalifa: Hypatia, you cannot imagine making a baenbag chair with two states?
*[2011/04/04 11:25] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): no, morphing can be done with morphs
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Nyx Linden: rez different versions of parts, or make the parts you don't want visible invisible
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Stickman: Morphs don't exist in meshes. Linden Lab isn't doing them.
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Stickman: For good reason, but still.
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): you can use deformers
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Eata Kitty: This is going back to 2005 level of technology if you can't change UUIDs
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): which is why I brought up blue mars :P
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Brookston Holiday: nyx the problem with that is that many areas don't allow rezzing
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Eata Kitty: I do not like that it is being brushed off as a minor, niche issue
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Charlar Linden: Would you all like to move on?
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): it uses a parametric system
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): They don't have that either.
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Rex Cronon: if u have neither morphs nor uuid flipping than thing kind of suck:(
*[2011/04/04 11:26] Reed (reed.steamroller): yes
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Charlar Linden: yes, you'd like to move on?
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Might as well
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Vivienne Daguerre: yes, let's move on please
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Charlar Linden: done
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Charlar Linden: next item: Could you invite Rod to come and talk to us next week perhaps, about his support for the mesh project and give us some hint of a timeline?
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Latif Khalifa: what is Charlar saying "you can argue all you want, no use, move on" :P
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Reed (reed.steamroller): i would like mesh to be released this year in some way shape or form, so if that means no UUID flipping, fine by me.
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Vivienne Daguerre: /me smiles...
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Vivienne Daguerre: We'll be nice to him, promise
*[2011/04/04 11:27] Charlar Linden: I could (and I will), but I don't know if he'll be able to make it.
*[2011/04/04 11:28] Vincent Nacon: you gotta stop asking for ETA
*[2011/04/04 11:28] Vincent Nacon: :P
*[2011/04/04 11:28] Charlar Linden: He is very excited about mesh, you can see it in his postings.
*[2011/04/04 11:28] Stickman: Nyx, it's a matter of efficiency. If I make a head for an avatar, and people can choose to have it in a different state -- not emotions, but different nose or brow styles -- then alpha swapping is a terrible solution. It's a one-time change. Much better to chance the model and have it stay that way forever. We've been over the arguments -- there are valid uses that are not animation. LL accepts that, I assume. But the distaste for UUID animation is so strong it's drowning out those uses. Which sis surpsing to me.
*[2011/04/04 11:28] Charlar Linden: He can't give you a hint of a timeline because he's not on the project. He is pushing me to get it done, with quality, as soon as we can. The three of us are on the project and we'll give you as much information as we can about the timeline.
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Stickman: I'm just not convinced it's a good idea to disallow it altogether. Better to put it in an abusable state and educate, or even police and punish, until proper "safeguards" can go in place.
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Vivienne Daguerre: I appreciate that Charlar, and did not mean to undermine you. We know all of you on the team are working hard.
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Reed (reed.steamroller): so there isn't some suit telling you not to give us a ballpark estimate?
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Charlar Linden: Oh, I know - he's on my case all the time, just like you all ;-)
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Michi Lumin: if there was a way that full alpha items could actually be simply _not rendered_ by the viewer (from what I understand, they still are) - then 'effectively' alpha swap would be identical in practice to UUID swap without the server resource drain. I'm not sure how practical flagging items programmatically as 'do not render' is though, probably a difficulty in building the scene.
*[2011/04/04 11:29] Charlar Linden: no, so suits here
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Charlar Linden: seriously
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Reed (reed.steamroller): riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Eata Kitty: I put multiple parts on firearms, you can change between different scopes, or different magazines. Years ago we used to have it alpha, then I had a thing where you would rez it and it would unlink then relink parts. Then wI had prims that changed properties. Then finally with sculpts I just changed the sculpt UUIDs and it's really fantastic. If mesh is static that's back to step 0
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Charlar Linden: no suits
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Nyx Linden: suits get shot at with nerf guns
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Latif Khalifa: Michi, there is no way you can make larger mesh with hiding parts easier on the viewer
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): but the problem with sculpts vs mesh is that a sculpt is the same topology always
*[2011/04/04 11:30] Latif Khalifa: by definition, swapping in a simpler one would always win
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Michi Lumin: Latif, there's no way to flag an object to not be rendered, viewerside only, in a rendering pass?
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Reed (reed.steamroller): dude, they're totally not going to do it
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Reed (reed.steamroller): not yet anyway
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Lazy (lazy.spectre): my concern is flipping would just reignite the whole copybot issue....again
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Michi Lumin: what I'm saying is what Nyx is getting at: effectively the 'result' of alpha swapping can be identical to that of a UUID swap
*[2011/04/04 11:31] Jeremiah Pintens: Ugh
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): I see the use case for weapons and the like but I suspect t here might be better ways to do it
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Latif Khalifa: Reed, it's our obligation to point out the mistakes along the way. That's what beta testign is about. If Linden Lab decides to correct their mistake or not is up to them.
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Timmi Allen: This discussion, we now have, for 1000 times. And we can still talk about it 1000 times without something changes.
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Rex Cronon: with alpha swapping u have to use lots of prims:(
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Charlar Linden: I noticed a new agenda item
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Eata Kitty: Very inefficient
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Latif Khalifa: Timmi, hopes lies eternal
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Eata Kitty: Rezzing is not practical either
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah i guess i was being an ass
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Reed (reed.steamroller): sorry i do that sometimes
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Stickman: Haha, flipping reigniting copybot issues?
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Yes, but their minds are already made up.
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Timmi Allen: yes Latif
*[2011/04/04 11:32] Reed (reed.steamroller): just ask nyx and davep
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): you'd be rezzing them Eata anyway, two meshes don't share topology
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): most of the time
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Charlar Linden: next item: Will avatar physics interact with rigged meshes, or will it be completely separate? - Draconis Neurocam
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): sculpts always do
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Nyx Linden: it won't interact with rigged meshes
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Eata Kitty: This is meant to be a virtual world where you can create whatever you want in 3D except we have brick walls blocking us off all the time
*[2011/04/04 11:33] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): ah
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Latif Khalifa: hypatia, except rezzing involvoes all sorts of permission stuff
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Rex Cronon: u can make meshes share topology:)
*[2011/04/04 11:33] Eata Kitty: As if they won't just grab a 3d mesh from the buffer
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): well, theoretically you can Rex, but most people wont do it
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): and it wouldnt even be ideal
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Brookston Holiday: What's this new avatar physics?
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Stickman: Thanks for putting up with my question. That topic is still a lot more passionate than I expected. I'm really surprised to see people on the "no" fence, though.
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Latif Khalifa: bouncing boobs
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): you can play with the new avatar physics with Kirstens S21
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto): test client anyway
*[2011/04/04 11:34] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it is chest, belly, and butt bounce added to the latest viewer development code as a new clothing type
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Bloodsong Termagant: ::facepaw::
*[2011/04/04 11:34] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I can't add Agenda..
*[2011/04/04 11:35] Vincent Nacon: no thanks. I'm not that interested to play with my man breasts
*[2011/04/04 11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): It's because they refuse to see any uses outside animation, Stickman.
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Vivienne Daguerre: You can always ask, make suggestions, make a case for what you want, but after the answer is a firm no, it is flogging a dead horse and a waste of time.
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Vincent Nacon: as new clothing type? I can't really imagine that sort of method
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Nyx Linden: I'll look into putting more reasoning in the UUID flipping wiki page later this week if I have cycles, but I've been overloaded recently
*[2011/04/04 11:36] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): its called physics type
*[2011/04/04 11:36] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): and has its own sliders
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Stickman: No, the Lindens make sense. They've presented an argument that UUIDs for animations are SO dangerous that they're willing to squash all uses of UUID swapping to prevent it. The users arguing against it don't make sense, and have malfomed or misinformed arguments. Which confuses me.
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Michi Lumin: i'm not on the no fence... I just think I'm accepting that the parents have said we're not going to the toy store and that's that, might as well make the best of it. Options are always good, but it appears this one is put to bed.
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Stickman: I liked Michi's solution. Full alpha stuff just plain doesn't render.
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Eata Kitty: I don't think that was their main argument stick, a big part of it is the work involved
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Michi Lumin: well, Stick - this is what I gotta ask; is it being backed out for sculpts?
*[2011/04/04 11:36] Stickman: I remember Nyx talking about getting that working at some point.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): I'm not talking about the Lindens.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Michi Lumin: yes, if that were the case, there would be no rendering cost.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Latif Khalifa: Nyx, can you also remove nonsense? Like about not being able to throttle. Ask Kelly if you lack info on how script resource limt work if you're not clear.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Nyx Linden: we aren't affecting sculpt swapping.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Michi Lumin: Understood. (Not following up with a 'then why' either. )
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Stickman: Which means the problem still exists -- potentially worse than ever because meshes won't have it. :p But yeah.
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Latif Khalifa: it's perfectly possible to make limits on what scripts can do where duplicating scripts won't help a bit
*[2011/04/04 11:37] Nyx Linden: would you prefer we break legacy content? :D
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Vincent Nacon: yes
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Stickman: Heck no. I prefer UUID swapping on meshes.
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Vincent Nacon: :)
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Michi Lumin: No, Nyx. Just was looking for clarification on the extent of it.
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Michi Lumin: I'm just wondering if it's even possible to make 100% alpha be 'truly gone from the scene'..
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Stickman: ^ that, curious too.
*[2011/04/04 11:38] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): theres so much legacy content i personally would love ll to break, fix, and force people to update, but my opinion is not everyones
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Michi Lumin: in such a case then really, alpha swaps would be identical in result (and even better)
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Latif Khalifa: what's next. prevent texture changing? it's as difficult for the sim as meshes when it comes to data download rates (much more so even)
*[2011/04/04 11:38] Nyx Linden: Michi - that's the desired behavior, we've noticed that its not working like that. So that's a bug :)
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Stickman: I'm with you on that, Draconis. Some stuff needs to die.
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Michi Lumin: Ok. That's nice then.
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Vivienne Daguerre: Anyway, I am out of here! Thanks everyone!
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Rex Cronon: tc
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Vincent Nacon: I just don't think legacy contents should drag LL down
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Later Viv
*[2011/04/04 11:39] Vincent Nacon: it's time to move on
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Charlar Linden: We just got a new item - where is torus forest
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Michi Lumin: Destroying legacy content is a whole other ball of wax, and not something that's likely to be decided among ~20 people on the Beta grid on a Monday; -quite- contentious.
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Stickman: What's this about Rod coming to Mesh office hours?
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Charlar Linden: right behind me
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Eata Kitty: Maybe he's in disguise
*[2011/04/04 11:40] davep (runitai.linden): torus forest is in MeshHQ 4
*[2011/04/04 11:40] davep (runitai.linden): over there -->
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Charlar Linden: After that, I think we're done.
*[2011/04/04 11:40] Stickman: Hah, yes. Not trying to decide the destruction of legacy content here. Just dislike some of the older stuff and wish it to not exist.
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Vincent Nacon: agree
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Charlar Linden: OK, folks. I think that's all we got!
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Stickman: I applaud LL for their support of legacy content. I wouldn't have done it how they have, and I don't necessary disagree with what they've done. I just wouldn't have done it.
*[2011/04/04 11:41] JR4201 Kruyschek: that`s a really complex issue destroying legacy content
*[2011/04/04 11:41] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): take care charlar, davep, and nyx
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Jeremiah Pintens: I think that's an understatement...
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Charlar Linden: back at ya Draconis
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Bye Lindens
*[2011/04/04 11:41] Vincent Nacon: but when something breaks... it would create more scripter/builder jobs in SL again
*[2011/04/04 11:42] oobscure (opensource.obscure): take care everybody
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Nyx Linden: thanks for coming everyone!
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you!
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Aki (aki.shichiroji): THanks for the meeting :)
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Nyx Linden: See you on the forums, or at next week's meeting!
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Stickman: /me encourages children to throw rocks at storefront windows because it encourages business.
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Jeremiah Pintens: Thanks for the meeting!
*[2011/04/04 11:42] JR4201 Kruyschek: can parts of legacy contents be converted to updated forms?=
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Vincent Nacon: seeya
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Skygirl Kline: bybybe
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Michi Lumin: well that's a 30,000 foot view, if you throw out creator and content user attrition due to frustration. :P
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Vincent Nacon: maybe, depends
*[2011/04/04 11:42] Aki (aki.shichiroji): back to work for me. Have a good day, all :)