Doc Team/2009-04-01

== Transcript ==
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: *looks*
*[13:05 SLT] Profesor Engineer: is the disscusion going to start soon
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden hovers and waits for everyone to rez.
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: Jon is teh AFK but Jeremy's here!
*[13:05 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:05 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ah, sure enough!
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Sorry I'm late!
*[13:05 SLT] Marianne McCann: I'm short an couldn't see 'em up there
*[13:05 SLT] Marianne McCann grins
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: Okay one sec, I'm gonna ask if some people wanna come, i shall be baaaack...
*[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I'd say this is a small crowd, but msot of you probably don't remember what it was like before we moved to this time slot :-)
*[13:06 SLT] Marianne McCann remembers
*[13:07 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: i remeber you from the teen grid jeremy!
*[13:07 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Alexander9 Carver has pinged you.
*[13:07 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Did it used to be crowded?
*[13:07 SLT] Jeremy Linden: You made it!
*[13:07 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: and kate
*[13:07 SLT] Jeremy Linden: How was the transfer?
*[13:07 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: normally it was 8pm - 9pm here but since our clocks changed last weekend its now 9pm - 10pm slot lol
*[13:07 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: good i was sad to transfer
*[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: Nice to see you Alexander9
*[13:07 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. Before we moved to Wednesdays, the Lindens at this office hour often outnumbered the Residents :-)
*[13:08 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: awww
*[13:08 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Hehehhe
*[13:08 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst wonders where Daniel is
*[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: ohh voy everything has to rez for me again
*[13:08 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: i know he was on earlier as well
*[13:08 SLT] Marianne McCann: Bad lag there, Torley?
*[13:09 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: this is the april fools joke i played on my friend: [3:23:40 PM] alexander: help!
*[3:24:14 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: what?
*[3:24:39 PM] alexander: i got ban from sl!
*[3:24:49 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: how
*[3:24:51 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: o.o
*[3:24:58 PM] alexander: i copyboted items
*[3:25:18 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: ohhh, what did you copybot
*[3:26:02 PM] alexander: i copyboted some clothes and some avators from grendales children.
*[3:26:24 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: lol you shouldn't have done that o.o
*[3:26:25 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: what avs
*[3:27:05 PM] alexander: i copyboted a hyena av and a lion av
*[3:27:27 PM] alexander: and copyboted from other places too
*[3:27:31 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: well someone must have found it
*[3:27:47 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: i mean why did you do it in the first place?
*[3:28:31 PM] alexander: i curious and i was broke on lindens so i decided to try copyboting
*[3:29:03 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: could have asked me for some L before doing it
*[3:29:12 PM] Nicholas Hadshi: now your screwed
*[3:29:1
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, somewhat, but i didn't expect to have to reload textures since my cache size is 1GB
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: :O
*[13:09 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: omg Torley haz teh lag
*[13:09 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: via skype
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: those grendel's people are nice too! that'll teach you a lesson! :p
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: haha
*[13:10 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: this is were i got this av
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: *force ports Youri*
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: hahaha welcome aboard Youri!
*[13:10 SLT] Profesor Engineer: i can't seem to get my laptop animation to work right i mean it wasn't working at all then i desided to write a script fo it and now the only thing i can see is the symobl but no top
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: welcome, welcome everyone to our office hours!
*[13:10 SLT] Marianne McCann: Got a photo tip I've been playin with lately, Torley. RenderFarClip up to a max of 4096m, RenderUseFarClip to False, and RenderTreeLOD up to about 20 or so.
*[13:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: Can make for some *great* long distance shots without losing the far off prims
*[13:11 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, ah yes. those are some settings i wish i could switch between with a single click for a special high-quality "photo mode".
*[13:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: Example: all four sims of Avaria: http://www.sluniverse.com/pics/pic.aspx?id=356559
*[13:11 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: i am going back to the teen grid as a approved adult for eye4 you alliance island.
*[13:11 SLT] Marci Moonsoo: thnks
*[13:11 SLT] Torley Linden: *looks*
*[13:11 SLT] Torley Linden: oh yeah that's pretty epic distance, Mari.
*[13:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Anyway, for those of you who aren't familiar with our format here, we generally try to talk about Second Life documentation issues, focusing on the Knowledge Base. Anytime you'd like to jump in, just holler! No need to ask permission :-)
*[13:11 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh yes, definitely. The true meaning of "Ultra" settings
*[13:11 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: does that do same thing as changing the ultra slider to everything on max?
*[13:12 SLT] Profesor Engineer: mk
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: it's further than that, Bio.
*[13:12 SLT] Profesor Engineer: i am lagging to much have to log out
*[13:12 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: oooo
*[13:12 SLT] Roxelana Laval accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:12 SLT] Youri Ashton accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: oh and yes, if any of you would like our Linden bears, please send us direct IMs :)
*[13:13 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I think even setting your graphics to Ultra doesn't max out the draw distance setting...
*[13:13 SLT] Marci Moonsoo: ok thnks
*[13:13 SLT] Marianne McCann: Jeremy - nope. You can't go above 512m without going ito debug settings
*[13:13 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Marianne McCann has pinged you.
*[13:13 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I run at Ultra on this machine, but if I turn draw distance all the way up it really slows me down :-)
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah w/Ultra, it only goes to 256m. 512m is much too slow for casual usage but it's good for photos.
*[13:13 SLT] Marianne McCann: And yes, I think ultra only goes to... 256m?
*[13:13 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: i collect linden bears and i have jeremy lindens bear and kates and yours torleys.
*[13:13 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Alexander9 Carver has pinged you.
*[13:14 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: and i have other linden bears too
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: draw distance is one of the major factors in viewer-side lag, simply because so much more needs to be drawn.
*[13:14 SLT] Roxelana Laval: me too now thanks all *mwahsss*
*[13:14 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: i have my draw distance slider set to 512 and everything on max
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: Faint, you're totally dancing, or spinning... are those puppet strings :O
*[13:14 SLT] Marianne McCann: I've got a couple hundred.. but no "Linden Bear Museum" to display
*[13:14 SLT] Marianne McCann: em in
*[13:14 SLT] Vista Questi: and textures to be loaded, too!
*[13:14 SLT] Jeremy Linden: That must be a monster computer you have, Bio!
*[13:14 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: :) srry kate for my tail being in your av
*[13:15 SLT] Marianne McCann: "My tail is in our avatar" = things you'll only hear in SL
*[13:15 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: blue linden office hour at 4 pm slt
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: high draw distance also affects network performance because of all the additional stuff that must be transmitted.
*[13:15 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: core 2 quad with a gtx 260 core 216
*[13:15 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: hehe yes
*[13:15 SLT] Kate Linden: Nice avatar Nicholas
*[13:15 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: thnxs :)
*[13:15 SLT] Faint Paulse waves at jjcc
*[13:16 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, we would prefer if you would please talk with us in text so we can make sense of the transcript later :-)
*[13:16 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya. I don't dare turn up the settings like that in most locations - I mean via debugging. Too heavy a load for all but the most rare uses
*[13:16 SLT] SoulStaff: Bio Swindlehurst's Soul is erased.
*[13:16 SLT] Faint Paulse: haiz everybody
*[13:16 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: i only turn it that high when im taking pics
*[13:16 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: torley any unpcoming tutorial videos you making?
*[13:16 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: most time its set to a custom high
*[13:17 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: btw :D april fool's day everyone!
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: Alexander9 for heck yes, 1.22 features, i did a recent Beacons one to accompany a Knowledge Base article, did you see it?
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: HAPPY APRIL FOOLZ NICHOLAS
*[13:17 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: with a draw distance of about 128
*[13:17 SLT] Marianne McCann: Played with that mirror trick, using the water and a building tilted at an angle. The result wasn't all that hot, though
*[13:17 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:17 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey aiden, take a seat
*[13:17 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: also helps to make the water near-motionless by lowering wave speed, did you try that, Mari? what probs did you notice?
*[13:17 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: hiyas colton
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: [QUICK TIP] if you didn't already know: you can send items by dragging from your inventory directly into an open IM tab window thing
*[13:17 SLT] Colton Linden: hi :)
*[13:18 SLT] Kate Linden: Hey Colton
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: no need to open profile if you already have an IM open
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: heyyy Colton!
*[13:18 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Colton!
*[13:18 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: this av is great for flying :)
*[13:18 SLT] Marianne McCann: Nice new spring logins, T. I assume they're yours
*[13:19 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: lag!
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: most are, or selected from a pool by Linden Lab Creative Services, thanks Mari! i just help where i can...
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: you can always see the Second Life login image via http://secondlife.com/app/login (for those of you who didn't know)
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: refresh to rotate it, each time of day has a few
*[13:20 SLT] Faint Paulse: (jj I think they'd like for you to type so that they cause look at the trancript later and then gets some results)
*[13:20 SLT] Faint Paulse: mmmk
*[13:20 SLT] Voice not available at your current location
*[13:20 SLT] Bette Lorefield: lol i see myself in the air
*[13:20 SLT] Torley Linden: i've disabled voice chat so it's easier to keep track of things :)
*[13:20 SLT] Kate Linden: Same here
*[13:20 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: ditto
*[13:20 SLT] Marci Moonsoo: ok
*[13:20 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: :) easier if i fly than stand
*[13:21 SLT] jjccc Coronet: dont you like my voice lol
*[13:21 SLT] Faint Paulse: (LMAO! go torley)
*[13:21 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:21 SLT] Faint Paulse: XD
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: holy moly, undulating dragon, that's hypnotic.
*[13:21 SLT] Youri Ashton: shot a pic of this couch :)
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: dragons are a great example of an avatar which require many kinds of skills to come together...
*[13:21 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: i shot a pic of the ground
*[13:21 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, we do love to hear from you, but it's too difficult to keep track of voices and text for such a large group. The person speaking tends to dominate the conversation, which is unfair to everyone else here.
*[13:21 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: :)
*[13:21 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh, aside, but I loved that "sentence don't need to end in lol" image of Ravenelle's, Torley. I want a t-shirt of it
*[13:21 SLT] Courteous Avedon: I am INVENTORY heavy in a wonderful and happy laggy in-world
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: i see a flexiprim tail and "whiskers", a convincing animation, and certainly nice usage of alpha textures to bring out the sleekness of the fur
*[13:22 SLT] Faint Paulse: i think you should put one of four yip's photos up on the splash page and do like feature artists n stuff
*[13:22 SLT] Faint Paulse: ftw
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: hahahah Mari i'll tell her :D i cracked up
*[13:22 SLT] Marci Moonsoo accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: Faint, we've done similar things with the Showcase, and i'm keen on having a broader variety in the future if it's easy to update and maintain
*[13:22 SLT] Marianne McCann: That would be great. Love to see some of the inworld photographers get a crack at a login screen
*[13:22 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: look out below!
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: whenever a great idea comes up, one of the most important things to ask is: "how much will this cost to maintain in the long run?"
*[13:22 SLT] Marianne McCann: (But as an inworld photographer, I am biased)
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: most people (true of not just SL but first life) can come up with great ideas, few can execute them, and even fewer can work together to persist for the long haul.
*[13:23 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: so laggy!
*[13:23 SLT] Youri Ashton: there ya go torley!
*[13:23 SLT] Faint Paulse: (yah i secretly just wanna design the splash page myself but i know i'm inferior to ppl like four)
*[13:23 SLT] Faint Paulse: ;P
*[13:23 SLT] Youri Ashton: a picture for your website or where ever you wih to have it! :)
*[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Hiro!
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: thanx Youri, good shot!
*[13:24 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: heya
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: Faint, where's a link to your photography and design? would like to seeeee
*[13:24 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hi Hiro. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
*[13:24 SLT] Faint Paulse: >:O
*[13:24 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: ouch
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: it feels like a circus here!
*[13:24 SLT] Youri Ashton: your welcome, unfortunatly i can not turn up the graphical settings to prefend lagg, but its a pretty nice shot i guess =)
*[13:24 SLT] Faint Paulse: just check my profile torley, my machinima is linked there too
*[13:24 SLT] jjccc Coronet: why is it data lindens policy to keep scripts turned off permantley at ahern welcome area but rodney linden turns them on. is there a war going on at linden labs between its employees at the moment
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: we don't have a ring but we got all manner of fantastical critters!
*[13:24 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Torley Twittered. I obeyed.
*[13:24 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: i did say look out below
*[13:24 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: its laggy circus!
*[13:24 SLT] Marianne McCann: Good to see a Varney neighbor
*[13:24 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: lol
*[13:24 SLT] Marianne McCann grins
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: oh how ignorant of me, Faint, i often preach putting good links in profiles! and there it is!
*[13:25 SLT] Aiden Zhichao: fennec, bear, dragon, bunny, uhhh fox i think?
*[13:25 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: afk
*[13:25 SLT] Kate Linden: Hello Hiro :)
*[13:25 SLT] Youri Ashton: fire kitten
*[13:25 SLT] Faint Paulse: i will say though. I like seeing the different photos when i log and i like the tips as it loads
*[13:25 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:25 SLT] Aiden Zhichao: close enough
*[13:25 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: oh this is badass Faint, http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifeelfaint/3135584163/
*[13:25 SLT] Marianne McCann: Faint - yes. I like the logins
*[13:25 SLT] Faint Paulse: that's how i found out about pathfinder's education conference in march
*[13:25 SLT] Faint Paulse: which was really nice for my professional avatar
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: i like the sketchy style, i like framing like that too. and the purple-black offset!
*[13:25 SLT] Marianne McCann: Fun to watch for new ones
*[13:25 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, that can be the result of one Linden wishing to be helpful but not knowing our policy. It may well be that our Support team decided scripts should be turned off in Ahern, and Rodney did not know.
*[13:26 SLT] Faint Paulse: LMAO! yah that was when rizza took my pen tablet. omg he totally ruined the card we were makin
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: ohh this is one of the best pix of a sandcastle i've seen yet http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifeelfaint/2941937964/ sandcastles in SL are sort of a visual parallel to building dreams in here on a bigger scale
*[13:26 SLT] Faint Paulse teehees
*[13:26 SLT] jjccc Coronet: can you turn scripts back on and make it policy
*[13:27 SLT] jjccc Coronet: today please
*[13:27 SLT] Faint Paulse: awwwww thankies. that's our droid robot son, dan. he lost his legs in a terrible accident at ahern
*[13:27 SLT] jjccc Coronet: thanks
*[13:27 SLT] Youri Ashton: i think you will like my work aswell then torley, 1/4 sim builds
*[13:27 SLT] Bette Lorefield: nice pic
*[13:27 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: very cute
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: Youri, are they all in your profile?
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: awww :( too bad for dan. i can't help but be morbidly curious as to what accident this was.
*[13:27 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, I know I don't know why scripts are turned off in Ahern, so if I were to turn them back on (outside my job area) things could go badly for me :-)
*[13:27 SLT] Youri Ashton: they are in my shops, and on xstreet
*[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann: Did dat have trouble with a border crossing?
*[13:28 SLT] Youri Ashton: i do not place anything inworld further because i can not afford it unfortuantly
*[13:28 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: back
*[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann: I twisted my ankle on one of them the other night, hence the crutches
*[13:28 SLT] Faint Paulse: XDD
*[13:28 SLT] Youri Ashton: i can however send pictures to anyone that likes to see my work ofcourse!
*[13:28 SLT] Faint Paulse: if i told you, you would be shocked. and dan is scarred: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifeelfaint/2860235070/in/set-72157607308045499/
*[13:28 SLT] jjccc Coronet: so why have these meetings if its more than you jobs worth to do any thing
*[13:29 SLT] Faint Paulse: (you'll have to view all sizes to read it)
*[13:29 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: colton lindens here!
*[13:29 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: *reads this very wide webpage*
*[13:29 SLT] Faint Paulse: ouch marianne o.O
*[13:29 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: did he just get here?
*[13:29 SLT] Faint Paulse: (lulz)
*[13:29 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: no
*[13:29 SLT] Youri Ashton: anyone else wishes to see one of the pictures?
*[13:29 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: jjccc, this is a documentation, tips, and tricks meeting.
*[13:30 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, the job of the Documentation team is to maintain and expand the Knowledge Base and teach new and old Residents about how to use Second Life. Sadly, that description does not cover turning on scripts in a welcome area :-)
*[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: thanx Youri!
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: your welcome!
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton gave you Blue Reaper Productions - Star Fortress - San Juan de Ulua 004.
*[13:30 SLT] Kate Linden: Thank you Youri
*[13:30 SLT] Youri Ashton: my second 1/4 build is however not finished, texture work is not done at all
*[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: *nods at what Jeremy says* we're open to listening to tangents and related stuff, but if we really can't help, we'll let you know.
*[13:30 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: if you have ideas for our TIPS AND TRICKS blog! http://tr.im/sltnt please DO suggest, we've got more fresh content coming soon
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: i'm putting together a list of tips every shopkeeper should know, because i get bugged about this daily and it's eminently practical
*[13:31 SLT] Faint Paulse: torley has covered so many tips and tricks in his tutorials and obviously most of the experienced users know about them, but when newbies come in they don't so much unless directed there
*[13:31 SLT] Faint Paulse: (cause let's face it, most of them never explore the website until much later)
*[13:32 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Now, if you were to suggest that we include a passage in our article about welcome areas explaining why we have scripts turned off... we're the right team!
*[13:32 SLT] Faint Paulse: maybe you need some tv's that link in the start locations?
*[13:32 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Do you offer tips for conducting "virtual relationships" and how to keep them going, or how to end them? Just asking! I have been called away by the President...Happy April 1
*[13:32 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - how to use XStreet with a business. How to effectively use classifieds (I think you covered this), other ways to promote your business. healthy ways to increase traffic
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: Faint, yeah, some things can't be obvious enough. we're standing by to help with projects to put more useful info upfront, whenever another team communicates with Doc Team to get involved.
*[13:33 SLT] jjccc Coronet: is this a pic meeting or what...... here is what you do go to hanja welcome area in the squaue is a board with a link board that introduces ppl to interesting places in secondlife .... my suggestion is put that board in every welcome area
*[13:33 SLT] Marianne McCann: I've had a lot of success, adfar as my business in Bay City, just with working with the neighbor businesses, so we're all on the same page style and otherwise
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, oh that's super. okay, that'd be the logical followup to me actually listing stuff on Xstreet, which i'll practice soon, and should get in touch with our Xstreet gurus.
*[13:33 SLT] Faint Paulse gives a cheesy thumbs up
*[13:33 SLT] Kate Linden: I'm thinking of opening a discussion about group contributions. It's an area where most people have many questions.
*[13:33 SLT] Youri Ashton: i think i can give you a few ideas on what to do with xstreet for merchant, i am a merchant myself on there =)
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: some things are so freakin' obvious and don't need a big project behind them — even putting out a stopgap hint is better, far better, than nothing at all.
*[13:33 SLT] Kate Linden: The blog will have a KBAotW with a discussion link.
*[13:33 SLT] Jeremy Linden: (KBAotW = Knowledge Base Article of the Wee)
*[13:33 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Er... week.
*[13:34 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: I presume better integration with xstreet will come soon? save swapping lindens about?
*[13:34 SLT] Marianne McCann: Inddeed, Kate. Also on selling group land/dividends/etc. I found myself stumped on that the other day
*[13:34 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: lol
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: Courteous, that's something i can definitely relate to. re: relationships.
*[13:34 SLT] Alvi Halderman: hey all
*[13:34 SLT] Youri Ashton: hi alvi
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: i'm glad Jeremy's getting a transcript of all this so i can refer to it later!
*[13:34 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:34 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=3949
*[13:34 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. That's what the KB has to say about relationships :-P
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: Trebek, i'm not sure of that, but i agree better integration would be WAY easier for what you mentioned. i keep getting my balance put on hold and Selene has to bail me out!
*[13:35 SLT] Kate Linden: Good point Mari. One good tip about group owned land, is that the group actually owns the land, even though members make contributions.
*[13:35 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: yes definitely Torley! my problem too
*[13:35 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: hey, would it be possible to make the group limit 50 or 100 instead of 25?
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: also related about relationships, NOT policy, but useful: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Sletiquette :)
*[13:35 SLT] Marianne McCann: True, Kate
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: how to get along with people and be popular!
*[13:35 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: Should be a charge for extra Drama.
*[13:35 SLT] Youri Ashton: i have a question about the mega prims as they are called, everyone knows of their excistance, but would it not be handier to have 20x20x20 as maximum for the official build menu? I sure would be very happy with that as would alot of people
*[13:35 SLT] Youri Ashton: is tha possible?
*[13:35 SLT] Marianne McCann: I had to sell a group plot, and had to ask about to make sure I did not end up giving everyone a cut of the selling price
*[13:36 SLT] Kate Linden: Alexander9, I bet you could find a Feature Request on the Issue Tracker to vote on for increased groups.
*[13:36 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: lol on drama
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: DRAMA BUS http://www.flickr.com/photos/ravenelle/3396840245/
*[13:36 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: k
*[13:36 SLT] Alexander9 Carver: i will do that kate
*[13:36 SLT] Kate Linden: : )
*[13:36 SLT] Marianne McCann: /keeps a stufed and mounted "Drama Llama" from Schraudenfreude on the wall of her workshop
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: groups haven't increased in a long time for a number of reasons, one of them being n^2 scalability problems, e.g., need to make current group communications more robust before pushing it further. but i don't know the latest state, i'm no longer closely involved with that work.
*[13:37 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: LOL Torley and Marianne
*[13:37 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Youri, as a builder I definitely understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, I don't really know much about the code behind Second Life, so I can't make any predictions about how easy it would be to change the maximum prim size.
*[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - there was somethgin on the blag about it yesterday. About not looking at some robust IM sortware because it woudl be too much work to implement
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, heard of that from Sardonyx... yeah...
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: haven't read his post yet tho
*[13:38 SLT] Erinyse Planer: andrew could answer that. in fact we often discuss that at his hours
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: Andrew has literally done rocket science, he's brilliant
*[13:38 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:38 SLT] Marianne McCann: Erinyse - is he as tired of the topic as he is hearing abotu troubles with hug interactions?
*[13:38 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Erinyse
*[13:38 SLT] Marianne McCann giggles
*[13:38 SLT] jjccc Coronet: i want a viewer with 5 customizable buttons at the bottom of the screen so i can put in and comand or feature from the menus above
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: sounds like Andrew needs a FAQ!
*[13:38 SLT] Erinyse Planer: yes mari... but he still listens
*[13:38 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Torley - when will LL have the documentation for class 6 servers out, since they were released today?
*[13:38 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: I don't know, group chat would be insane if we increased the number, even tho I'd like more groups... one thing with more groups is a way to not listen to the chat unless you want to.
*[13:38 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh ya. He's a good egg
*[13:39 SLT] Youri Ashton: what about a n offline sandbox for that matter, this way a true builder can not be harrased by any griefer and leave their builds in their own offline place so they can work on that when ever they wish, this way they can work in peae and when SL needs to go offline, for what ever the reason may be, they just can continue building. alot tell me this is a great idea, what is the Linden point of view about this?
*[13:39 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hiro - I was in the Class 6 pilot program on the Beta grid. They're pretty robust
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: i don't know about that Hiro, but perhaps Rand might (he does a lot of internal and public wiki documentation and works with engineers to get the good geeky details out)
*[13:39 SLT] Faint Paulse: youri you should try open sim
*[13:39 SLT] Marianne McCann: Who knew a Mac Mini could be so powerful
*[13:39 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Torley, c'mon, it seems Gwyn knows more than LL is saying! http://gwynethllewelyn.net/2009/04/01/new-class-6-servers-are-out/comment-page-1/
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: so i'd suggest letting Rand know you're interested and he can check on that :-D
*[13:39 SLT] Faint Paulse: wait can you move things from open sim back to sl?
*[13:39 SLT] Jeremy Linden makes a note to update the KB for Class 6 info.
*[13:40 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: going back to earlier..can we have a new viewer with a button/option for the ultra high rez long distance photo graphic options
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks Jeremy
*[13:40 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, what make you remark that?
*[13:40 SLT] Youri Ashton: I prefer to stay in SL Faint =) thank you for the idea though, i sure will check that out
*[13:40 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Mari is just talking abotu what we already know - the class 6 servers are mac minis.
*[13:40 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - playing along with Hiro on the class 6 servers
*[13:41 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: What is this "playing along" of which you speak of? I jest not! *coughs, snickers*
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: actually, http://www.macminicolo.net/
*[13:41 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hiro - you know, maybe this explains why Torley got a Mini the other day... it's an actual at home SL server!
*[13:41 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: lol
*[13:41 SLT] Marianne McCann: Would love that, bio. or at least some easier way to get to those settings than pure mucking about in debug settings
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, can i quote you on that?
*[13:42 SLT] Marianne McCann: Sure can
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: thankyouuu
*[13:42 SLT] Youri Ashton: If the class 6 servers are indeed there, then I think it would be wise to leave LL do their work on that and make sure they running stable before letting anyone on there. Just incase...
*[13:42 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: yeah cos I have no idea what the debug settings do :(
*[13:42 SLT] jjccc Coronet: griefing in sl is a sport ppl make loads of videos about it on youtube i mad loads my self there really really cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYJjw3CbIzk&feature=channel_page
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: okay jjccc, don't troll us, that ain't cool
*[13:43 SLT] jjccc Coronet: wanta bet
*[13:43 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: Bio, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Settings has some explanations :)
*[13:43 SLT] Kate Linden: Bio: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Debug_Settings
*[13:43 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: But, seriously, Torley... why don't we get some of the video tutorials in the F1 help sites? :)
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: oh GMTA Kate
*[13:43 SLT] Kate Linden: ^5 torley
*[13:43 SLT] jjccc Coronet: there better than your videos
*[13:43 SLT] jjccc Coronet: lol
*[13:43 SLT] Marianne McCann: theyre*
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: Hiro, which? Knowledge Base? there are video tutorials in there.
*[13:43 SLT] Youri Ashton: jj, please, if you like to try someone out, please dont do it here. these lindens were as nice to talk to us, please let them. if you have sommens you can take that up later with them
*[13:43 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: I mean for some of the more basic stuff.
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: but where did you expect to have them placed, Hiro?
*[13:44 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jjccc, if you used correct grammer and didnt sound like a two year old, i'd take you seriously. as it is, if you admit to greifing in SL, I'll draw up a warrent to give torly for your personal info this afternoon
*[13:44 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: With each subject? Like, something as dumb as watching someone walk around in the "how to walk around" tutorial.
*[13:45 SLT] Faint Paulse blinks
*[13:45 SLT] Jeremy Linden: You bring up a good point, Hiro. Traditionally in technical documentation, the extremely basic tutorials get the most hits.
*[13:45 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: hey walking can be tricky to begin with.. I was a wall hugger for a while LOL
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: oh Hiro, you mean Help > Tutorial, *not* F1.
*[13:45 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:45 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: For newbies, machinima videos are *the* best way for newbs to grok virtual worlds.
*[13:45 SLT] Youri Ashton: hey narumi
*[13:45 SLT] narumi Skall: hey baby
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: main reason is a technical one, we don't have Flash or QuickTime viewable in the inworld browser. yet.
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: and it pains me. for the longest time.
*[13:45 SLT] Youri Ashton: take a seat =)
*[13:45 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Both, actually, Torley.
*[13:45 SLT] jjccc Coronet: im not a griefer and this isnt an english lesson i just made a video about the grifers
*[13:45 SLT] Marianne McCann: True, Hiro. I had to work an event for Wikey Publishing where the speaker was completely new, and had to be instructed where to type to talk to others
*[13:45 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: I was weened on torleys how toos!
*[13:45 SLT] Kate Linden: Hiro, there is a tutorial HUD that new Residents have on screen when they first enter (it's under Help > tutorial) which covers the basics. However, it's a great idea to have more KB articles for brand new Residents.
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: Hiro, so: we should have more video tutorials for the "Second Life for Beginners" section on http://secondlife.com/kb ?
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: that's easy enough to do. :)
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: and i've actually done a Basics set.
*[13:46 SLT] Marianne McCann: Would have been useful on our event head to have somethign like that to point to. Walking was also a rough one for her
*[13:46 SLT] Kate Linden: We include many of Torley's video tutorials in KB articles.
*[13:46 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Torley, that's my suggestion, yeah.
*[13:46 SLT] narumi Skall: rezing
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: (some things can never be obvious enough, i agree)
*[13:46 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: I've seen your basics set. That's why I mention it :)
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: okay great thought, i'll make a note to check that out
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: THANKS
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: filling easy holes and obvious gaps is severely underrated =)
*[13:47 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Coolio.
*[13:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: Back to th' workshops. Have fun all!
*[13:47 SLT] narumi Skall: can i has a bear
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: i cry when resources exist but aren't promoted widely enough and people don't know and don't know how to search or are too lazy to!
*[13:47 SLT] jjccc Coronet: can you delete half of the tutorial videos that dont teach anyone anything
*[13:47 SLT] Kate Linden: Nice to see you Mari. :)
*[13:47 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: I've been thinking *a lot* about new user experience lately. :)
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: such is the (virtual) reality!
*[13:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
*[13:47 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: cya mari
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: ta-ta!
*[13:47 SLT] Youri Ashton: bye marianne
*[13:47 SLT] Bette Lorefield: baibai
*[13:48 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jj, can you give some examples?
*[13:48 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: ture that
*[13:48 SLT] Kate Linden: Hiro, I'd love your feedback when you notice a topic that would benefit new users.
*[13:48 SLT] Kate Linden: Just submit a KB suggestion ticket.
*[13:48 SLT] Kate Linden: KB 5100 Submitting a Knowledge Base Suggestion
*[13:48 SLT] Kate Linden: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5100
*[13:48 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: I wonder if in certain "newbie areas" there could be a way to hotlink signs and objects directly to specific informative tutorial videos?
*[13:49 SLT] Erinyse Planer shrugs "torley while youre making videos how abotu a video of altenrate ways to id verify for those of us for whom its illegal to age verify in either of the ways LL wants us to
*[13:49 SLT] Jeremy Linden: (We do read all the suggestion tickets!)
*[13:49 SLT] jjccc Coronet: just watch half of them and see if you learn anything
*[13:49 SLT] Colton Linden: Help Island Public has a sign to the videos right on the platform
*[13:49 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: the vids are fantastic JJ, I did the flag and even did the run LOL
*[13:49 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Good point Colton. They are very informative.
*[13:49 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: now I build everything and an ything
*[13:50 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: do "newbies" sometimes know how to click an object?
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: Erinyse, if there's enough of a priority for that, yes.
*[13:50 SLT] Trebek Raymaker: exactly.. or the simple thing of copying a prim
*[13:50 SLT] Youri Ashton: lol as we speak of griefers the sim im estate admin gets attacked, the boss is on his way =)
*[13:50 SLT] Alvi Halderman accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:50 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: lol
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: Nicholas, that points to another of my fave features: CLICK ACTIONS. Clicking is fairly obvious, but right-clicking (as shown by previous tests), not very.
*[13:51 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: I'm just exploring ideas---how to link the obvious helpful material into the hands of users who do not know where to look.
*[13:51 SLT] Hiro Pendragon: Question: Does the documentation team handle user surveys? e.g. Gather new user feedback?
*[13:51 SLT] Erinyse Planer: cosndiering that msot people in the eu, or many law enfocement in the us like me cannot legally give out government id numbers.... ild think there should be a priority. especially since youre already suspending accounts for not verifying
*[13:51 SLT] jjccc Coronet: i watched the video on the advanced menu today in it torley says we dont support the advanced menu so dont use it
*[13:51 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: i mean it's hard being a "newbie" especially if you don't understand a word of english
*[13:52 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne thinks back to a time with someone who speaks french + was a "newbie"
*[13:52 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: That's where the visual element really helps!
*[13:52 SLT] Kate Linden: We did do a survey with the mentor group regarding their use of the KB, but another team handles our company surveys.
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: yes — universal symbols help.
*[13:53 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We don't gather general new user experience info directly, but we do have various Lindens who do. This team may occasionally gather feedback and metrics regarding the Knowledge Base specifically, though.
*[13:53 SLT] Bette Lorefield: mm but there is always someone willing to help when someone does not speak english
*[13:53 SLT] Erinyse Planer: theres also really good starting centers in about 8 differant languages
*[13:53 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: yes, only problem is where can a person who doesn't speak english turn?
*[13:54 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: i mean isn't the KB all in english?
*[13:54 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: I know translators exist, perhaps there could be some small kiosk on the Help Islands....whatever it takes.
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: we're actually amidst translations to other languages.
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: we're working with our Internationalization & Localization Lindens.
*[13:54 SLT] Erinyse Planer: theres a german kb somewhere
*[13:54 SLT] Youri Ashton: yeah thats near waterhead
*[13:55 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We do actually have localized Knowledge Bases in development. In fact, we'll be attending a meeting this week with our localization team to share ideas and hear about their progress on the community translation effort.
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: there's also the recently-launched French version of the site, not everything is translated but it's progress. http://fr.secondlife.com/
*[13:55 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: yes :)
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: and various VERY VERY helpful Resis have been translating articles on http://wiki.secondlife.com
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: internationalization is one of the greatest examples of "one person can't do it all", you really need to work across languages but have a shared vision of making info accessible
*[13:56 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: I love the international use of traffic signs, so possibly a standardizatoin in information icons may help when the KBs are being created.
*[13:56 SLT] Bette Lorefield: For new people, would it be possible to give them some useful landmarks in their landmarks folder. ie, if you are french, some french landmarks. i dont think that happens already does it?
*[13:56 SLT] Kate Linden: There are also many Community Gateway's that are international https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/grid/blog/2009/03/23/introducing-the-updated-community-gateway-program
*[13:56 SLT] Youri Ashton: I heared there was a new program starting up, specially for the Dutch people on SL. This Linden (sorry dont know the name at this moment) told me it was for language translation in the first place. but is there more coming in that direction? like a special place just for Dutch people?
*[13:56 SLT] jjccc Coronet: is it true about the rumours in the washington post that one third of linden labs are about to loose there jobs
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: Bette, i know some Community Gateways like Kate's mentioned have provided starting points, whether they're landmarks or a sign board which is more visual.
*[13:56 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: yes i agree with dreamin, it would be nice to have signs be multilingual
*[13:56 SLT] Youri Ashton: I ask this because i was thinking about joining that team
*[13:57 SLT] Faint Paulse: nice. i'm glad to see the updated communities, kate
*[13:57 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Bette, good point. I think this topic--of a new comers packet--was brought up last week too. :-)
*[13:57 SLT] Bette Lorefield: oh ok thanks :)
*[13:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jj, you're welcome to participate in the conversation at hand, but if you continue to intentionally disrupt this meeting I can't allow you to stay.
*[13:57 SLT] Wyn Galbraith is glad she opened a fresh browser for this.
*[13:57 SLT] Erinyse Planer: jj the lindens here wouldnt even know
*[13:58 SLT] Erinyse Planer: wanna ask a linden about that go to the ******** m linden
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: also Bette, it seems like a sensible consequence that resources like the Showcase could be expanded into different languages... it currently highlights many cultural locations.
*[13:58 SLT] jjccc Coronet: ok just a simple qustion
*[13:58 SLT] Faint Paulse shakes her finger all tsk tsk at jj, "i know you have good ideas jj. let's be constructive?"
*[13:58 SLT] Faint Paulse: ;)
*[13:58 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: :-)
*[13:59 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: brb need something
*[13:59 SLT] Nicholas Hawthorne: afk
*[13:59 SLT] Youri Ashton: oki
*[14:00 SLT] Marci Moonsoo: hehey Constance :PJeremy Linden
*[14:00 SLT] Constance Maurer: :P
*[14:00 SLT] Constance Maurer: Hey torley and colton
*[14:00 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Well everyone enjoy the rest of your April Fools! Thanks for letting me listen in once again! Peace.
*[14:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Ha! Nice emote, Constance.
*[14:00 SLT] jjccc Coronet: my good idea is turn scripts back on in ahern and make it documentd policy not to turn it off again
*[14:00 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: Speaking of drama...
*[14:00 SLT] Bette Lorefield: baibai dreamin
*[14:00 SLT] Constance Maurer waves
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: ow hey con, didnt even know you were here hun :) welcome :p
*[14:00 SLT] Constance Maurer: hehe
*[14:00 SLT] Kate Linden: Thanks for coming today Dreamin22
*[14:00 SLT] Roxelana Laval: buh bye Dreamin xD
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks for being with us at our office hours!
*[14:00 SLT] Bette Lorefield: ohai constance
*[14:00 SLT] Kate Linden: In fact, it looks like we've come to the end of our office hour.
*[14:00 SLT] Faint Paulse: the showcase in the in-world search tab was a great addition. i almost think it should go right after all
*[14:00 SLT] Youri Ashton: have a nice sl day dreaming :)
*[14:01 SLT] Constance Maurer: ohai my friends
*[14:01 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Oh wow, the hour's up already?
*[14:01 SLT] Faint Paulse: moved left in the tabs, i mean
*[14:01 SLT] Wyn Galbraith: Great timing
*[14:01 SLT] Constance Maurer: Torley i was just lookin at your flickr ha
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