Open Source Meeting/2010-07-27

=== Agenda Tuesday, 27 July 2010 ===
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# Left over topics from Thursday:
#* While the windows prebuild libs scripts has been published ( http://bitbucket.org/brad_linden/build-lindenlib ), the Linux and MAC build scripts are still MIA. 
# See comments in jira.
# Tester needed for on MacOS: do fast timers work correctly?
# Can 1.4 be released this week please?
== Transcript ==
[14:03]	Merov Linden: 	that created some issues for some folks to svn update their repo
[14:04]	Merov Linden: 	using TortoiseSVN on Windows
[14:04]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	merov i fixed my svn updat issue last night
[14:04]	Merov Linden: 	o good!
[14:04]	Stickman Ingmann: 	Was it SVN itself, or a local issue, WolfPup?
[14:04]	Merov Linden: 	so, not an issue anymore?
[14:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	What was the issue?
[14:04]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	it was a conflict between my local ignore files and the ones on the svn server force to use my locals
[14:04]	Robin Cornelius: 	luckly i don't use SVN but git so i was not effected anyway, but my git tracking repositorys of SG1 and SG2 are avaiable for anyone to clone
[14:05]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The property you mean?
[14:05]	Merov Linden: 	I see now
[14:05]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	yes the .svnignore files
[14:05]	Merov Linden: 	I didn't set ignores locally so didn't get into the problem
[14:05]	Merov Linden: 	good to know what was happening
[14:05]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Sounds like a big bug in tortoise that it can't deal with svn:ignore properties set by others in the repository :/
[14:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	they are a hidden tortiousSVN file
[14:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	tortoise works fine
[14:06]	Merov Linden: 	Still on my list: I know, I haven't created tags yet for the various beta!!! Don't kill me just yet...
[14:06]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Probably not the properties but the files that cause the conflict.
[14:06]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The .svnignore files != the svn:ignore property.
[14:06]	Merov Linden: 	I added new versions to JIRA so we can start triaging stuff more easily
[14:06]	Boroondas Gupte: 	beta?
[14:07]	Merov Linden: 	the viewer 2.x various beta
[14:07]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Merov, the tags would be nice for someone to build a pure LL code viewer.
[14:07]	Merov Linden: 	that was requested by Techwolf Thrusday
[14:07]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	aleric per the email i sent you this morning the pic i attached shows how i do the updates
[14:07]	Boroondas Gupte: 	ah, official viewer beta, not SG beta
[14:07]	Merov Linden: 	yes, official
[14:07]	Merov Linden: 	anyway, on JIRA, Since then, I triaged all "Future" bugs and added a backlog of them to Snowglobe 2.1 (trunk).
[14:08]	Latif Khalifa: 	still nothing in http://svn.secondlife.com/svn/linden/branches/2010/
[14:08]	Merov Linden: 	you certainly notice the activity on JIRA...
[14:08]	Latif Khalifa: 	3-4 releases behind
[14:08]	Boroondas Gupte: 	I'm not sure all of those will/should make it into 2.1
[14:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	wolf: oh, I never received that mail .. at least, didn't see it... I'll have a look later where it went.
[14:09]	Merov Linden: 	Boroondas: you're right, but at least, I want to review them
[14:09]	Merov Linden: 	Mostly broken build stuff and texture loading issues (stability, perf)
[14:09]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	i sent it as a reply to the email addy you mailed me from
[14:10]	Merov Linden: 	Anything else we should add to the 2.1 backlog?
[14:10]	Merov Linden: 	or things we should absolutely take out...
[14:10]	Merov Linden: 	well, I suppose you all need to look at those.
[14:11]	Boroondas Gupte: 	maybe SNOW-771
[14:11]	Multiple concurrent 	IM sessions per group
[14:11]	Merov Linden: 	Please feel free to check and comment those bugs
[14:11]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I havn't look at the list for quiet a while.
[14:11]	Aleric Inglewood: 	which bugs?
[14:12]	Merov Linden: 	Those Aleric: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hide&sorter /order=DESC&sorter/field=priority&resolution=-1&pid=10100&fixfor=10703
[14:12]	Merov Linden: 	the ones I set with "2.1" as "Fix version"
[14:13]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	snow-752 is a tricky one
[14:13]	cmake looks 	from the wrong header in the wrong place.
[14:13]	Merov Linden: 	on SNOW-771 : I haven't looked at the patch yet
[14:13]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	err snow-754
[14:13]	Water and 	Sky has dark patches and flickering with atmospheric shaders are turn off.
[14:13]	Merov Linden: 	others have? what do you thinh?
[14:14]	Boroondas Gupte: 	It's not really ready, yet. If we want it in 2.1 I'll probably need some help with it.
[14:14]	Latif Khalifa: 	i see 3/4 of those bugs listed are build issues
[14:14]	Latif Khalifa: 	none of which are blockers for a 2.1 release
[14:14]	Merov Linden: 	This is really a new feature.
[14:14]	Boroondas Gupte: 	yes
[14:14]	Merov Linden: 	Latif: not blocking but we should just bite the bullet on some and just fix them
[14:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	borrondas what os you working on?
[14:15]	Merov Linden: 	it's really making friction high as far as getting up to speed on building Snowglobe
[14:15]	Boroondas Gupte: 	WolfPup, SNOW-771
[14:15]	Latif Khalifa: 	It's just my general feeling that snowglobe project is a lot about tinker with build ;)
[14:15]	Latif Khalifa: 	I'd suggest more of "release early, release often"
[14:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	that is what im talking about borrondas
[14:16]	Merov Linden: 	that's because we cater to a larger variety of build environment than internally
[14:16]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	i was windering if your linux. windows, mac
[14:16]	Latif Khalifa: 	version numbers are cheap, no reason not to have 2.1.0, .1 .2 .3 .4 .5
[14:16]	Boroondas Gupte: 	oh, I'm on linux, why?
[14:16]	Merov Linden: 	some of those build issues we hit only when exporting and exposing to you guys
[14:16]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	if you want i can try to help testing on windows boroondas
[14:16]	Merov Linden: 	Latif: +1 on releasing on a regular schedule
[14:17]	Boroondas Gupte: 	well, on the other hand, we shouldn't make nihil releases. Release whenever a bunch of stuff is done, maybe?
[14:17]	Merov Linden: 	I'd like to call 2.0 out but there's SNOW-669 still up in the air
[14:17]	Port of 	SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:18]	Merov Linden: 	the thing that threw us off the "release on schedule" mantra is the port to 2.x
[14:18]	Flight Band: 	All Go
[14:18]	Merov Linden: 	there was not much point to release a version of Snowglobe with less features than 1.3.2 :/
[14:19]	Robin Cornelius: 	Merov, i'm blocked because of curl bugs on that as mentioned in the jira
[14:19]	Merov Linden: 	so that became a "feature driven" release
[14:19]	Aleric Inglewood: 	*looks at the agenda*
[14:19]	Merov Linden: 	Robin: I read your comment in JIRA, indeed, this is annoying
[14:19]	Merov Linden: 	anyway, since we
[14:20]	Merov Linden: 	since we're talking about releasing, may be we should jump to the last point
[14:20]	Merov Linden: 	5. Releasing 1.4
[14:20]	Oz Linden: 	if it's blocked, why not take it out of the release?
[14:20]	Merov Linden: 	Oz: at that point, may be, it's blocked beyond our control (bug in libcurl)
[14:21]	Merov Linden: 	good that Robin has been tracking that bug that deeply though... kudos to her...
[14:21]	Merov Linden: 	what do you think of Oz suggestion guys wrt 2.0 release?
[14:21]	Merov Linden: 	/me votes "yeah"
[14:22]	Aleric Inglewood: 	abstain
[14:22]	Boroondas Gupte: 	taking SNOW-669 out?
[14:22]	Merov Linden: 	of 2.0.1, yes
[14:22]	Merov Linden: 	just fix it in 2.1 (or whenever libcurl is fixed)
[14:23]	Latif Khalifa: 	/me tries to make sense of releasing sg 2.0, fails :P
[14:23]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	that might be best
[14:23]	Boroondas Gupte: 	abstain here, too. IMHO a 1.4 release is much more needed right now.
[14:23]	Aleric Inglewood: 	(personally I think that any SG 2.0.x will damage the reputation of snowglobe)
[14:23]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	2.0 was so full of UI issues and bugs I don't think there is a good reason to release a 2.0.
[14:23]	Merov Linden: 	I'd like to release it as in "put that branch to rest"
[14:24]	SL Open 	Source General Info: whispers: Thank you! Your items will be delivered to you soon!
[14:24]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	aleric 3574 built
[14:24]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Agree with Techwolf. At the very LEAST I'd like 1.4 to be released shortly before 2.0, if at all (the latter).
[14:24]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	If there is a release, make it a quiet one. Tag it in svn and move on.
[14:24]	Merov Linden: 	and move to 2.1
[14:24]	Merov Linden: 	Robin: what do you think?
[14:24]	Latif Khalifa: 	just declare 2.0 branch dead, and move one
[14:24]	Latif Khalifa: 	on*
[14:25]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Reliase 1.4 then work on 2.1. Relieasing a 2.0 would probelly do more harm then good.
[14:25]	Merov Linden: 	k, I'll email opensource-dev with the suggestion
[14:26]	Merov Linden: 	to declare it "done" (so no one jumps on it as a "release") and move energies on 2.1 (trunk)
[14:26]	Merov Linden: 	on 1.4: there are lots of open JIRA against it
[14:26]	Nicky Perian: 	1.4 windows build is still has library handling problems at package
[14:26]	Merov Linden: 	that needs to be triaged
[14:27]	Merov Linden: 	punted or closed or fixed
[14:27]	Boroondas Gupte: 	I think most could wait for 1.5.
[14:27]	Latif Khalifa: 	Nicky no viewer builds the installer correctly
[14:27]	Merov Linden: 	1.5!
[14:27]	Merov Linden: 	aaagh...
[14:27]	Stickman Ingmann: 	haha
[14:27]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	heheh
[14:27]	Boroondas Gupte: 	1.4 is already way beyond 1.3 as it is.
[14:27]	Robin Cornelius: 	i'm up for going for 2.1 rather than 2.0
[14:27]	Aleric Inglewood: 	There is definitely going to be a 1.5
[14:27]	Aleric Inglewood: 	and 1.6
[14:28]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	1.4 is going to be the base code for a lot of TPV, so need to make sure it a good one to use.
[14:28]	Ardy Lay: 	Hmm... I don't have problems with the package/installer in SG 1.4.0
[14:28]	Ardy Lay: 	Just have to tell it what libraries to not use.
[14:28]	Merov Linden: 	really, there's a lot of things happening in viewer-public (2.1 and beyond) as you know
[14:28]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I think 1.4 should be released now... I just wonder if Mac works now or not, that isn't clear to me. Is SNOW-713 finally resolved on darwin?
[14:28]	Global objects 	in libllcommon duplicated in plugins
[14:28]	Nicky Perian: 	fresh update and the apr libraries did not copy
[14:28]	Merov Linden: 	do you really want to do backport forever?
[14:29]	Latif Khalifa: 	merov, people dislike the UI *that* much
[14:29]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	2.0 doesn't have the upcomming multiattments and a few other features that in 2.1 now.
[14:29]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Well, If LL would have forward-ported the old UI we wouldn't have to backport the rest :-P
[14:29]	Aleric Inglewood: 	2.x is just not an option for me to use.
[14:29]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	but some of those new 'features' are server code depentant
[14:30]	Merov Linden: 	Aleric: even 2.1?
[14:30]	Boroondas Gupte: 	I use 2.x on a regular basis, but I can understand everyone who doesn't.
[14:30]	Latif Khalifa: 	Merov, 2.1 is the same basic UI as 2.0
[14:30]	Latif Khalifa: 	a couple of superficial changes is all
[14:30]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	/me only runs on 2.x viewer since mid feb
[14:30]	Stickman Ingmann: 	2.1 doesn't include all of the missing UI features, sorry.
[14:30]	Aleric Inglewood: 	merov: I'll rethink it when viewer 2.1 contains all major snowglobe patches :p
[14:30]	Merov Linden: 	Aleric: it does
[14:31]	Aleric Inglewood: 	viewer-public or viewer-external, not SG 2.1
[14:31]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	2.1 got some major UI impovments that make it from unusable to somewhat usable.
[14:31]	Merov Linden: 	really: check https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgvC7hm5YZqcdHVXb05iTE0wTFc0bWptTW4tOTZuS3c&hl=en #gid=0
[14:32]	Boroondas Gupte: 	Merov, Aleric's talking about official 2.1
[14:32]	Boroondas Gupte: 	(upstream)
[14:32]	Merov Linden: 	SG 2.1 is merged with viewer-external Aleric...
[14:32]	Aleric Inglewood: 	We need a better name for what is not called "the official viewer" .... What about 'the "old" viewer'? As it is seriously lagging behind with patches and bug fixes? We could say Old 2.1, that would be non-ambiguous and more clear.
[14:32]	Aleric Inglewood: 	is now*
[14:33]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: You don't know what I mean? Surely all major SNOW patches are NOT in viewer-external?
[14:34]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Some people here said that snowglobe should be the upstream of the internal viewer - and I agree.
[14:34]	Merov Linden: 	Not in Viewer-external, they are in SG 2.1, that's what I mean and what the spreadsheet shows
[14:34]	Merov Linden: 	so SG 2.1 = viewer-external + Snowglobe patches
[14:34]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Ok, wel l I meant what I said. I'll rethink using 2.1 when, as a first step, viewer-external contains most major snowglobe improvements and bug fixes.
[14:35]	Merov Linden: 	k, now I understand you
[14:35]	Latif Khalifa: 	Merov, I think Aleric has ported water flicker patch to one too many branches ;)
[14:35]	Merov Linden: 	that being said:how better is it then to develop on 1.4?
[14:35]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Until 'upstream' uses our code there is no reason to work on snowglobe over any other TPV, and I like the SG 1.x "TPV" better (over SG 2.x).
[14:35]	Merov Linden: 	it's not like it's in viewer-external either
[14:36]	Latif Khalifa: 	well there will never be a 1.24 so no need to port patches over on that track
[14:36]	Merov Linden: 	k, I copy your last point Aleric: putting code in 1.x makes it more likely to see it in other TPVs
[14:37]	Merov Linden: 	correct?
[14:37]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I guess... but it's mostly egoism: *I* use 1.4
[14:37]	Merov Linden: 	ubderstood
[14:37]	Merov Linden: 	*understood*
[14:38]	Merov Linden: 	in the long (or not so long) run, it's a loosing battle though: LL is adding new capabilities in 2.x code base only
[14:38]	Merov Linden: 	http textures, rendering improvements, etc...
[14:39]	Latif Khalifa: 	loosing battle for whom? :P
[14:39]	Merov Linden: 	for whoever does the backports
[14:39]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	everything is a losing battle if you consider a long enough timescale... for now, a lot of people preffer 1.x.
[14:40]	Nicky Perian: 	when if ever will viewer 2 become required to log on?
[14:40]	Merov Linden: 	I guess that my point is that trying to moor that 1.x boat to the 2.x codebase is somewhat absurd
[14:40]	Latif Khalifa: 	well if you get one of those viewers that can tell who is using which viewer and go to any busy place you will see that 3 out 4 residents is using some form of 1.x viewer
[14:40]	Aleric Inglewood: 	If LL continuous to ignore what we snowglobe developers do, then I'll find a way to keep having all good stuff without that LL even CAN benefit from it :/ ... I might fork 2.1, throw it on an external hg repository and hack back the 1.x UI - and then just merge in what we can use from LL. ...
[14:40]	Aleric Inglewood: 	but lets not give up hope yet... after all, Oz said that this is his highest priority.
[14:41]	Merov Linden: 	/me glances at Oz...
[14:41]	Stickman Ingmann: 	I don't hate the 2.x UI, personally. I hate the fact it can't do half the things the 1.x UI did just fine.
[14:41]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	There is work on adding multiattmets and wearables to 1.4 base code.
[14:42]	Oz Linden: 	sorry... I was looking away
[14:42]	Latif Khalifa: 	Oz also says that we need to convice him what's wrong with v2 UI, I think he got some things backwards ;)
[14:42]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	No code been released yet....still in progress.
[14:42]	Oz Linden: 	/me scrolls back
[14:42]	Merov Linden: 	as a developer though, I feel the distance to "fix 2.x UI" is shorter than the distance to "backport all to 1.x"
[14:42]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Lets talk about point 3 on the agenda before it's time
[14:43]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: you might be right, and I admit that I'm driven by annoyance over the fact that so many bug fixes didn't make it to 2.0 or 2.1
[14:43]	Merov Linden: 	k, we went down a rathole I'm afraid
[14:43]	Merov Linden: 	looks like the ball is in our (LL) park to proove the value of 2.x code base on all front
[14:43]	Merov Linden: 	I haven't given up :)
[14:44]	Boroondas Gupte: 	start by adding a 1.x skin ;-)
[14:44]	Merov Linden: 	point 3.
[14:44]	Aleric Inglewood: 	no, to ADD our bugfixes to it, instead of keeping throwing new buggy code over the wall WITHOUT paying any attention to our bug fixes :/
[14:44]	Merov Linden: 	VWR-20340
[14:44]	GStreamer falsely 	disabled on 32bit userland on 64bit kernel
[14:44]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Any event I go to is still domanated by emerald viewer.
[14:44]	Oz Linden: 	Folks... give Merov a break - I told him not to work on 1.x
[14:44]	Oz Linden: 	If you want to discuss that, let's do it with me at another time
[14:44]	Merov Linden: 	Aleric: you know what? Big +1 to what your said! :)
[14:45]	Oz Linden: 	Aleric - we're going to do that
[14:45]	Merov Linden: 	VWR-20340
[14:45]	Merov Linden: 	Aleric, what's your take on that one
[14:45]	Merov Linden: 	?
[14:46]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I don't know :/
[14:46]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Robin here now?
[14:47]	Merov Linden: 	I never run Linux so I'm not up to snuff with this "Linux viewer start-up script"
[14:47]	Boroondas Gupte: 	it's just a wrapper for the binary that sets some environment variables
[14:47]	Aleric Inglewood: 	it was added quit some time back the agenda... I had hoped people would have looked at it already.
[14:48]	Merov Linden: 	is that committed somewhere? The patches provided are unclear
[14:48]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The problem is this:
[14:48]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	/me notes that viewer-external doesn't disable gstreamer at all, just issues a warning when it sees a 64 bit system.
[14:48]	Latif Khalifa: 	/me thinks he saw a patch comitted mentioning this
[14:48]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Does the gstreamer issue causes crashes of the viewer itself? I say let the gstreamer part error out sence the client keeps running and not bother trying to figure out if gstreamer works or not.
[14:49]	Robin Cornelius: 	it use to before media plugins
[14:49]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The kernel can be 32-bit or 64-bit. The 'userland' (installed applications) can be 64-bit or 32-bit (if the kernel is 64bit), and the viewer can be compiled 64 bit or 32 bit (if userland is 64bit).
[14:49]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/browser/branches/2010/viewer-external/indra/newview/linux_tools/wrapper.sh
[14:49]	Robin Cornelius: 	technicaly speaking the bit ness of the viewer is not important here its the bitness of SLPlugin vs the gstreamer library that matters
[14:49]	Merov Linden: 	thanks Thickbrick!
[14:49]	Aleric Inglewood: 	That gives as thus 32-32-32, 64-32-32, 64-64-32 and 64-64-64 as possibilities.
[14:50]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Aleric, any 32-bit distro that uses a 64-bit kernel?
[14:50]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The question is: where we are currently using uname -m (which returns the kernel bitness), shouldn't we use something else, and what?
[14:51]	Aleric Inglewood: 	In particular, indra/cmake/Variables.cmake
[14:51]	Boroondas Gupte: 	that's build time, Aleric
[14:51]	Merov Linden: 	there's a proposal on "what" by Altair Memo
[14:51]	Robin Cornelius: 	yes we should but this is now multiple issues
[14:51]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	aleric, part of the problem is that the runtime environment might be different than the build environment
[14:51]	Robin Cornelius: 	the indra/cmake/Variables.cmake is a seperate issue
[14:52]	Boroondas Gupte: 	+Robin
[14:52]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	File a seperate jira for that one.
[14:52]	Robin Cornelius: 	uname should not be used there at all
[14:52]	Robin Cornelius: 	been through that, Aimee understands the gotchas there as well
[14:52]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Ok, so commit the patch as-is and make a new jira for indra/cmake/Variables.cmake ?
[14:52]	Merov Linden: 	+1
[14:52]	Merov Linden: 	may be use the same solution to avoid uname
[14:53]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The talk about CMAKE_SIZEOF_VOID_P confused me too.
[14:53]	Robin Cornelius: 	CMAKE_SIZEOF_VOID_P is a compile time thing set by your compiler it is authoritive
[14:53]	Robin Cornelius: 	do not go against that
[14:53]	Aleric Inglewood: 	That seems like the userland bitsness on the build machine, no?
[14:53]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Or is it the viewer bitness?
[14:54]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Bacilly, need to check bitness of SLPlugin campore to gstreamer liberay, what lib name shall be check for bitness?
[14:54]	Robin Cornelius: 	if you want to cross compile tell GCC what you are doing and CMAKE_SIZEOF_VOID_P looks after itsself
[14:54]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Techwolf: library? SLPlugin bitness is a given, no?
[14:55]	Aleric Inglewood: 	It's the -m32 or -m64 you configure with.
[14:55]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	lag....
[14:55]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	i'me not referintg to the cmake issure.
[14:55]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	how about this:
[14:55]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	BINARY_SYSTEM=$(expr match "$(file -b bin/SLPlugin)" '(.*executable)')
[14:55]	Robin Cornelius: 	one would assume SLPlugin and the viewer are the same bitness for anyone downloading a package
[14:55]	Aleric Inglewood: 	nooooo
[14:55]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I'me refering to figure out if gstreamer will work or not due to bitness.
[14:56]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Techwolf that tests the viewer bitness, not userland
[14:56]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	oh
[14:56]	Aleric Inglewood: 	If userland is 64bit then SLPlugin can still be linked against /usr/lib32/* and be 32bit.
[14:57]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Aleric, Huh? What are we trying to figure out if SLPluin will work wiht the gstreamer. If SLPLugne is 32-bit, then check for 32-bit gstreamer.
[14:57]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	umm, what happens if we just try to run SLPluing regardless? Does it keep trying once it fails to link with gst?
[14:58]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I'm afraid I don't even understand the background of the problem (gstreamer issue?) entirely :/
[14:58]	Aleric Inglewood: 	definitely not a jira that should be assigned to me :p
[14:58]	Merov Linden: 	eh
[14:58]	Latif Khalifa: 	unasign and move on
[14:58]	Latif Khalifa: 	lol
[14:59]	Merov Linden: 	Thickbrick? are you game? :)
[14:59]	Robin Cornelius: 	the issue is gstreamer libs are loaded using apr_load_dso at runtime and use to crash the viewer if the wrong bit libs loaded
[14:59]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I don't currently have a 64 bit system to check this in
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I do
[14:59]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I committed it to 1.4 because I thought that it was correct - at least doing what the one that wrote the patch wanted it to do (and thought it would do). And he had experienced and tested the problem.
[14:59]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Robin: s/viewer/SLPlugin/
[15:00]	Aleric Inglewood: 	The annoying part then is that it SHOULD be applied to 2.1 too, shouldn't it?
[15:00]	Merov Linden: 	k, assigning to Techwolf then
[15:00]	Robin Cornelius: 	ah thickbrick i said use to, now it just crashes the SLPlugin instance
[15:00]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh
[15:00]	Oz Linden: 	/me must go catch a train... see you all soon
[15:00]	Latif Khalifa: 	lol
[15:00]	Boroondas Gupte: 	bye Oz
[15:00]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Now we can talk about 1.4 again :)
[15:00]	Aleric Inglewood: 	heheh
[15:00]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I'll need a link to LL 32-bit verion of snowglobe 1.4 svn builds.
[15:00]	Latif Khalifa: 	and Oz is supposed to be good with teh community? :P
[15:01]	Merov Linden: 	/me puts face in palm...
[15:01]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	Oz things we are all nuts as the bulk of this meeting was discussing a single linux issue over bitness.
[15:01]	Merov Linden: 	heck, I fixed the Mac launch issue on 1.4... don't tell Oz though... :)
[15:01]	Latif Khalifa: 	lol
[15:01]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	:-)
[15:02]	Boroondas Gupte: 	/me giggles
[15:02]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: can SNOW-713 be closed now concerning Mac?
[15:02]	Merov Linden: 	yeap
[15:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	tc oz
[15:02]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	So that means we can start having updated builds on the wiki page?
[15:02]	Merov Linden: 	I moved (and fixed) the issue to SNOW-765
[15:02]	Immediate crash 	on Mac launching Release build
[15:02]	Aleric Inglewood: 	So then we can release it no? I'd really like to have a 1.5 branch cause my quilt queue is full with stuff I want to commit, but not to 1.4 yet ;)
[15:03]	Merov Linden: 	I'm all for releasing it if you all feel fine with it
[15:03]	Merov Linden: 	I can create the 1.5 in JIRA and do the tag on svn tomorrow
[15:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I downloaded some windows version, the installer .exe and installed it on windows XP - it all seemed to work fine....
[15:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think we should have people use it for a few weeks as "test build" before we make it a release
[15:04]	Merov Linden: 	I don't think Oz will kill me over that :)
[15:04]	Aleric Inglewood: 	RC1 ?
[15:04]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I.e. have it be linked in a visible place
[15:04]	Robin Cornelius: 	1.4 contains all the SOCKS5 fixes as well so its worth a release from me
[15:04]	Latif Khalifa: 	+1 from me too (thaks to thickbrick for getting snow-77 backprot in) :)
[15:04]	S3 map 	shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
[15:05]	Ardy Lay: 	Did Nicky say there was an issue with the package/installer in SG 1.4.0?
[15:05]	Robin Cornelius: 	Probably nest not to mention i back ported *some* of MOAP ;-p
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	k, let's announce it on opensource-dev then
[15:05]	Aleric Inglewood: 	And the water fixes - so you can finally set the region water to something != 20 meter :)
[15:05]	Ardy Lay: 	Something about it not packing libraries?
[15:05]	Ardy Lay: 	Maybe the apache runtime stuff?
[15:05]	Latif Khalifa: 	Ardy, every viewer version has the sam issues
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	I'll do the specific svn tag tomorrow though as I'm in SF today and don't have all the tools I need on this laptop
[15:05]	Merov Linden: 	ok with you guys?
[15:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	merov aleric back ported snow-622 and snow-772 to 1.4
[15:06]	Addition of 	checkbox for Log Filename Date Stamp
[15:06]	Adding Date 	Stamp to Chat and IM logs
[15:06]	Ardy Lay: 	Latif, what issues?
[15:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	Merov, I'd seperate out 1.4 branch, and declare trunk 1.5
[15:06]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov: you saying you make a 1.5 branch tomorrow?
[15:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	Aleric, noooo
[15:06]	Ardy Lay: 	Maybe I have already worked around it and just forgotten.
[15:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	you branch off a release
[15:06]	Nicky Perian: 	the apr dll did not get to indra/newview
[15:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	as it is, only the handful of people who follow sldev-commits are runnig recent 1.4 builds. I don't think it's tested enough to force it on 1.3 users.
[15:06]	Aleric Inglewood: 	What Latif said
[15:06]	Aleric Inglewood: 	trunk = 1.5
[15:06]	Nicky Perian: 	and then on to release
[15:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	+1 on branching 1.4
[15:06]	Latif Khalifa: 	Nicky, they are not supposed to go there
[15:07]	Merov Linden: 	k, noted
[15:07]	Latif Khalifa: 	they go to buld/newviewer/release
[15:07]	Nicky Perian: 	then why did the copy command bomb
[15:07]	Merov Linden: 	again: tomorrow as I'm far from my desktop right this minute
[15:07]	Aleric Inglewood: 	sure - any time this week is fast enough for me.
[15:07]	Nicky Perian: 	fmod.dll is there and it copied over
[15:07]	Merov Linden: 	I need to run guys to work with Brad on stuff
[15:08]	Ardy Lay: 	Nicky, do you have any info on when in the revision history this issue emerged?
[15:08]	Latif Khalifa: 	ok, take care Merov :)
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	wait ;(
[15:08]	Nicky Perian: 	brb
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Merov
[15:08]	Merov Linden: 	cheerios
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	you must do point 4
[15:08]	Latif Khalifa: 	Ardy, there is no issue
[15:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Anybody has objections to me prettyfing/clarifying the Snowglobe Downloads section on the wiki?
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Tester needed for SNOW-659[c] on MacOS: do fast timers work correctly?
[15:08]	Standalone SG2 	fails to start, sigsegv in LLFastTimer
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	you are the only one that can test macos
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	just need to test if fast timers work
[15:08]	Aleric Inglewood: 	humpf
[15:08]	Boroondas Gupte: 	write him an email
[15:09]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I will commit that... worked with 713 too.
[15:09]	Ardy Lay: 	Latif, you confused me. [15:05] Latif Khalifa: Ardy, every viewer version has the sam issues
[15:09]	Ardy Lay: 	[15:08] Latif Khalifa: Ardy, there is no issue
[15:09]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Anyone else here with a Mac?
[15:09]	Ardy Lay: 	Does this mean you changed your mind?
[15:09]	Nicky Perian: 	revision 3566
[15:09]	Ardy Lay: 	Nicky, thanks
[15:09]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	aleric im getting the current build of the servers of sg 1.4
[15:10]	Ardy Lay: 	Oh, Hmm...
[15:10]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Wolf: yeah, to test 622/772
[15:10]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	yes
[15:10]	Aleric Inglewood: 	but we need a tester on Mac for 659
[15:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Aleric, maybe ping Aimee on #opensl?
[15:11]	Techwolf Lupindo: 	I have a request, does anyone have the URL link to LL snowglobe 1.4 svn builds? I need a 32-bit version for testing here.
[15:11]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Aimee is not there...
[15:11]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	i one thing im going to need to do is clean my programs folder of some other snowglobes and SL programs
[15:11]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	oh, vacation
[15:11]	Aleric Inglewood: 	most LL personal just /quit's... can't use IRC to reach them :/
[15:11]	Aleric Inglewood: 	much better to stay on IRC 24/7
[15:12]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Techwolf: https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/sldev-commits/2010-July/004279.html
[15:12]	Stickman Ingmann: 	I'm out, bye!
[15:12]	Aleric Inglewood: 	WOW the sun is back!
[15:13]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	lol aleric
[15:13]	Nicky Perian: 	tc bye all
[15:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Latif, do you have a chance to test snow-77?
[15:13]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	tc nicky
[15:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	s/do/did/
[15:15]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Wolfpup: I'm looking in-world for people with a creative humor ;) ... seems I'm always the only one being creative among my friends :/... Heh, last I said something in RL that surprised myself as creative though... That is, I said it, and then I suddenly had the feeling that I might have been the first person in the world to say that - heheh.
[15:16]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I had bought some meal - sold a dinner for one person - but I was heavily disappointed with the amount of chicken meat. Hell, it was like three bites at most.
[15:17]	Aleric Inglewood: 	So, I exclaimed: Jesus, the chicken probably won't even miss this!
[15:17]	Boroondas Gupte: 	lol
[15:17]	Aleric Inglewood: 	:)
[15:18]	Aleric Inglewood: 	*backflip*
[15:18]	Latif Khalifa: 	lok at how fast i can type now :)
[15:18]	Latif Khalifa: 	hahahah
[15:18]	Boroondas Gupte: 	:-D
[15:18]	Aleric Inglewood: 	heheh, thanks :)
[15:19]	Latif Khalifa: 	hahahaha
[15:19]	Aleric Inglewood: 	rofl
[15:19]	Latif Khalifa: 	lmao
[15:19]	Aleric Inglewood: 	I had one before from someone that was funny :)
[15:19]	Latif Khalifa: 	hahaha
[15:19]	Aleric Inglewood: 	you got to stand up then :)
[15:19]	Latif Khalifa: 	should confuse the hell out of Oz lol
[15:20]	RED BULL: 	RED BULL, COURTESY GEOFF FROST OF U KNEEK DESIGNS, CLICK FIND, PLACES, U KNEEK FOR MORE COOL STUFF
[15:20]	RED BULL: 	OOOOOOH MY GODDDDD I THINK I HAD TOO MUCH!:D
[15:20]	Aleric Inglewood: 	oh your AO overrides it?
[15:20]	Aleric Inglewood: 	should start with the first one of course :p
[15:21]	Latif Khalifa: 	i go all the way fast lol
[15:21]	Aleric Inglewood: 	: /1sip
[15:21]	RED BULL: 	WOAH! THIS STUFF TASTE GOOOOOOD
[15:21]	Aleric Inglewood: 	lol
[15:21]	Latif Khalifa: 	lol
[15:21]	RED BULL: 	WOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO RED BULL!!!!!:D
[15:21]	Ardy Lay: 	Aleric, combine that animatino with the distance animation speed up bug.
[15:21]	Latif Khalifa: 	loool
[15:22]	Aleric Inglewood: 	heheh
[15:22]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Ardy: what bug?
[15:22]	Latif Khalifa: 	animations speed up as you zoom out far
[15:22]	Ardy Lay: 	Yove your camera away from yourself and run that animation.
[15:22]	Ardy Lay: 	What distance, I do not know.
[15:23]	Latif Khalifa: 	i still like the crazy type lol
[15:23]	Aleric Inglewood: 	Latif: don't bump into me!
[15:23]	Latif Khalifa: 	i wasn't moving, you were :P
[15:23]	WolfPup Lowenhar: 	aleric did you find that email?
[15:23]	Aleric Inglewood: 	(now you have to bump into me)
[15:24]	Latif Khalifa: 	lmao
[15:24]	Boroondas Gupte: 	oh
[15:24]	Latif Khalifa: 	fragile boy lol
[15:24]	Aleric Inglewood: 	lol
[15:24]	Aleric Inglewood: 	horrible :)
[15:24]	Latif Khalifa: 	hahaha
 
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