Twelve Drummers Drumming

"Twelve Drummers Drumming", released on January 5, 2019, is the twelfth and final installment of the 12 Days of Hello Internet series. The series consists of twelve parts, released one day at a time from December 2018 to January 2019, that together serve as Hello Internets fifth annual Christmas special and as its 116th overall episode.
What's that sound, Brady? It's 12 drummers drumming. It's the 12th day of Hello Internet Christmas. Before we started, there was a huge pile of unopened envelopes. And now we've got lots of open cards here and things we've talked about. We still have a very large pile of up. Like, if someone came in at the beginning and looked at our pile of envelopes and then they came in now, they would not be impressed by the dent that we have made in this pile. Even though I feel like we've opened a lot of envelopes and we've gone through a ton of things. And we have a big pile of garbage, of discarded envelopes to get rid of. When you look at the pile that is remaining, it is not an impressive amount of progress that we have made. I don't think we've hardly made a dent, but we can slightly increase the size of that dent by doing just a few more cards. Today, you think? Let's do a few more to end the holiday season. Well, that's a lovely card. That's like a handmade hand. What's that crocheted? Yeah, we have like an embroidered or crocheted cross stitch, is it? Cross stitch. I don't know the difference between these words. An embroidered wreath. And this is Stefan from Zurich and for Dr. Brady. Yes. I swear more people have called me Dr. Brady than not. Which is crazy. I think that is true. I think the majority of these cards are addressed to Dr. Brady. It says, if we ever populate Mars or other planets, will there be nations on Mars? Or will there not be nations on Mars? Merry Christmas to you and your families. So that sounds like a great question to me. Yes. There's a handmade card by his mother. Thank you very much. It's lovely. Tell your mother that she is a true talent, Stefan. Yes. I think that's cross stitch. I don't know what these needlework things are all called. Do you really know the difference between cross stitch and whatever other words you were saying? I have no idea. I've got no idea. So when Mars is colonized, do you think it's going to go the earth model and end up, like, you know, nations and things like that? I don't know. I don't know how it's going to end up. I'm so heavily biased by reading the red Mars books where it's all just sort of corporate colonies. And there isn't exactly like a nation structure, but I don't know. It feels like nations are ways that humans are just going to inevitably arrange themselves. Just purely for the power of struggles of controlling resources. People may have very idealistic ideas about how they want Mars to run before everybody gets there. But ultimately, it's going to be like, well, it's far away from Earth. And people want to control territory or land or resources on the planet. And I think you're going to kind of end up with these sorts of divisions that if they're not nations in name, they're nations in function. That'd be my guess anyway, but I don't know. Did you see the new probe that landed on Mars the other day? No. I was like, inside? Did you discover water on Mars? Not yet. And it has not. I've avoided you two left the solar system the other day though. Oh, did it really? Yeah. But no water on Mars. It was a good landing though. Landing stuff on Mars is still cool. It will never now be cool. It's always impressive. Do you think, I know this is an often asked question and we would have discussed it before, but given like the last year or two of progress and news and things, if you don't live for a thousand years, and you have like a normal lifespan, do you think you will see a human on Mars while you're still alive? If I was going to bet on it, I'd say yes. I would bet that I would see a human on Mars. And the remainder of a normal human lifespan. Do you think the same? Yes. I think maybe just. Maybe just. If I eat more carrots, please. Well, is it just because you're older than me or is it just because you're less confident than me? Bit of both. Bit of both. Just a thing to note. I didn't say we'll see some human on Mars and safely return. Just to be clear, I'm eating the bed of human on Mars and the human lands and they're alive when they land. That's the best. 19-year-old physics student named William has sent a beautiful homemade piece of art, which looks like what is that? A Robin Redbreast or some kind of a third? That's a red-rated Robin. Beautiful picture to Graham Brady, physics student at university. However, I've always been a creative person. This card, for example, and my dream job is actually to be a film director. My question is, how do you choose between rational life choices and risky choices in pursuit of your true dreams and desires? What do you think, breathing? I can't think of many decisions I've taken that I would classify as risky. I don't think I'm like the super rational dude who thinks things through to the extent that you think about things. But I still think my decisions are quite conservative and normal. I can think of very the decisions I've made in life that you would classify as a risk. So I can't answer the question therefore. I'm not quite risk-averse. I think something like this where particularly if someone wants to do something like filmmaking, it also just reminds me of a thing that I use to tell students as well. For some classes of jobs, you don't need anybody's permission to start. And if you have interest in doing those things, you should just start now and see if you get any kind of positive feedback. I guess I feel the same way that you do that there are things that I have done. They're risky, but they're not risky without reason. You have positive feedback that this is a good idea that making YouTube videos professionally is maybe not a crazy idea because you've made a bunch that have received traction. And I think something like filmmaking is the same thing. You can make shorts on YouTube and just give it a shot and see if you get any kind of positive feedback or not. So yeah, I think calculated risks are what we want in life. Yeah, how many are right? I haven't made risky decisions, but I also acknowledge that I've had a lot of luck. And also, I've been privileged to have opportunities that maybe I didn't deserve. So I'm not saying, I've got where I am because I made excellent decisions, but I just haven't made risky decisions. I left a secure staff job at the BBC, but I didn't do that until I felt so confident that the YouTube stuff was going to be more successful. That was when I had no, I almost was forced to leave the BBC because I couldn't do the stuff I wanted to do on YouTube anymore. I'm not that guy who said, you know, I've got a dream and I'm going to quit my job and go and cruise the rivers of South America looking for my dream. Yeah, it's good to think of life. Life is a game, but it's a game that's like poker where there's an element of randomness, but you can still make good or bad decisions within that element of randomness. You've got to know when to hold them and when to fold them. Yes, you need to know when to hold them. You need to know when to walk away. Yeah, you need to know when to run. That's right. I hope that's helpful. I saw him. Can he rush us a glass to break and that song was just the best. He did it twice. He did like all these hits and he did that one and then he did islands in the stream. And then at the end, he said, alright, I'm going to do one last song for you all. Do you want that one or do you want islands in the stream and everyone, you would fold the one they wanted and then he just did both. You know what I like about that? That's a man who knows what the people want. You know what? If I'm seeing Kenny Rogers, I want to hear the gambler twice. Exactly. You know, I thought he was so funny and all these one-liners were great and I thought, oh, that was a good laugh. So that night, I got home and decided to watch some YouTube videos of his other life performance. Is it easy always like that? Oh, the same jokes. Oh, the same one-liners. That was an absolute carbon coffee. Oh, look at this one. This one comes from Andy Matthew Hazel and Audrey II. Hello Internet podcast guys. Yes, we named our Chihuahua after the original Audrey. Officially, she is Audrey II, a nod to the little shop of horrors and Lisa's cat on the Simpsons. Her name is a pop culture raw-check test leading to assumptions about Ms. Hepburn and more. Question, how many times and in what media have your intellectual properties been requested to be used? Oh gosh. Many, many times, permission granted basically never. How do you feel about there being an Audrey II? Because parents sometimes get possessive about the names that they give their children. Well, guess what? There's a picture here of Audrey II. This is Audrey II with another dog called Hazel. They both sticking their tongues out. It's very cute. I'm all right with it. Yeah, yeah. I'm all right with it. I think imitation is the highest form of flattery, isn't it? Right. Just like with people using your intellectual property. Invitational is the highest form of flattery. Invitational is okay. Free booting in theft. Not so cool. Not so cool. Yeah. Okay. We've got other seasons greetings. Pets on the front. Neat handwriting in the card. But not super easy to read. But divided into topics, also what I like, it's name pronunciation guide. So this is from Lucia. The topic is celebrity culture. She notices that many people think that their lives are not meaningful if they aren't remembered somehow or if they haven't changed the world. Do you think this idea about celebrity culture is harmful? Or if it's good for people. Any thoughts on celebrity culture? That's what she's looking for. What do you think about being remembered, Brady? I have some sympathy with that position like celebrities not important. But the idea of thinking that the thing you did results in you being remembered. I think is a strong human emotion. Not even necessarily for the vanity of wanting to be remembered. But being remembered is almost just like proof or vindication that the thing you did was good. If the thing you did wasn't good, well of course it won't be remembered. If the thing you did was good, maybe it deserves to be remembered. So it's almost like that's the smoking gun that the thing you did was good. That's not necessarily true. But it is an easy idea to be seduced by. I find the concept of people wanting to be remembered, Dom and Silly. But I do try to translate it into my head into exactly what you said there. You know what literally mean? You hope that you're remembered. You mean you want to have done or made something that people remember. And then that's like you said, it's a verification that if not that it's good, it had an impact. You are remembered for something that you have done. You haven't just appeared and disappeared on earth. And as soon as you're gone, only your family and friends remember you. And then when they're gone, nobody even knew that you were here. That's what I try to translate it into. But it does always just sound to me kind of dumb when people are like, I want to be remembered. Like well, but you'll be dead. It won't matter to you what people are aiming for is the work. If they want to write a book that people are still reading after their dead, that kind of thing. That celebrity in itself is seductive. Obviously it's a Jesus humans. There's a plenty of evidence of that. So there is something nice about recognition and fame that attracts a lot of people. It does attract a lot of people. It is a thing that makes me concerned though with not exactly to go against what I was saying before, but about how there are jobs that you don't need anybody's permission to do. One of those jobs is I'm just a person on YouTube who makes videos and is a vlogger. I think as we've discussed a couple of times, it is one of the reasons why if you... I've seen increasing surveys of what do young people want to do. And the numbers just keep going up and up. The answer is that they want to be a famous person on YouTube. That is what it is. That is the flip side of it. I think that's just bad. I think it's really bad in terms of just expectations that... Sure, people always wanted to be rock stars and famous people. But maybe it's not good for people to grow up feeling like it's so much more within your grasp, whereas before the existence of... I'm Instagram famous and that's what I do was a job. These people could recognize, like, oh, I would love to be famous, but I can't be a singer and I'm not good enough on the sports team. And so I'm going to be a doctor instead and I'm going to say people's lives. Or whatever it is. Are you suggesting? Because if you are, I agree with you. That the problem with YouTube fame and Instagram fame and things like that, as opposed to being a successful musician or a successful athlete, is you don't necessarily actually need to be good at anything, to be famous anymore. Like, to be Michael Jordan, you had to be really good at basketball. And maybe it's not quite as true with things like music, but generally, to be like a successful musician, you had to be a really good musician. But it seems like a lot of the people who are... Some of the people who gain a lot of success on YouTube, you might disagree with me on this, but not necessarily particularly exceptional at anything. I would disagree a little bit. There's two factors. The bar for what is necessary to be famous and successful at it is lower, for sure, just because of the technological developments. And because of audience fragmentation. So you can be a particular kind of person who's famous within a group of 300,000 people. But rewind the clock 40 years ago, and you were either known by millions of people or you were known by no one. There was no middle ground here. So the middle ground has opened up, which has lowered the bar for what is your technical skill. So people at you and I can go to the Rocket Center for a night and spend one night, but you're famous and then be anonymous again. That's totally true. And rewind the clock 40 years and neither you nor I would have any kind of audience at all. It just wouldn't have happened. But I think it is important to say that a lot of the people who seem like they're total idiots and are famous for nothing, they're more talented and more clever than you think they are. I don't go along with the idea that many people have. They're famous for nothing. Or they're just a total idiot who got lucky. Even people who seem real dumb have little moments where I feel like you can see through the veil for a moment. And you're like, you're not quite what you're portraying yourself as. Or you have skills that are non-obvious to the people who are watching. And you just seem like an idiot. But it's very easy to be an idiot, but it's not as easy to be an idiot in a funny and entertaining way. Like even that is a kind of skill. I think that the perveniciousness is more that many more people can feel like celebrity is within arms reach. And maybe that's a much more frustrating situation to be in. And it can leave more people feeling like there's lottery tickets lying around everywhere. But for some reason they just got unlucky and weren't able to grab one. And it's the illusion of closeness of that that might be bad for people. I do worry about it though. And every time I see one of those surveys of like everybody in high school wants to be a YouTuber, I feel like it seems really bad. But maybe I'm overly concerned. I don't know. You and I, I think still it's some level disagree about the role that luck plays in success in the kind of our our YouTube world. But how do you think we disagree? I think you think it's not like like most of the people who are successful have something about them that means they've kind of earned it or come close to earning it. And I sometimes think lots of people probably could have had it and a few lucky ones got it. By the way, my wife agrees with you, but like you know we talk about this all the time too. I think I just got lucky didn't I? She's like no, no, no, it's not luck. But I feel like luck plays a role. But you know, I prefer your version because that makes me feel special. But to go back to it, I want to be clear like that's why I think poker is a good analogy for life that like I am not saying that there isn't luck. But what I am saying is like you can be lucky in terms of like poker games. The thing that I think is interesting to note is someone who has a career for a long time. And people still think like oh, they're just a lucky idiot and it's like well. I'm less convinced by that kind of thing where it's like oh someone's had a career on YouTube and they've had a career for five years and six years at a certain point. I think it's like we have to make the judgment that like they have a skill and they're leveraging that skill. But I totally agree that I'm not saying everyone on YouTube who is successful is there because they're skilled. I'm simply saying I think that there is more invisible skills than people estimate. Luck is still a part of it. Like I see a thing where people do then say it's all luck and I think that breeds a weird kind of resentment. That's not good. Like the people who think it's all luck strike me as angrier people most of the time. I don't put you in this category at all. But just when I have conversations people think like it's like oh people are just lucky entirely. It's a sensible position to be more angry but I think they're invisible skills that are non-obvious to people. And from knowing a lot of people who are successful I find it interesting that a lot of them tend to really downplay their own skills. They almost are propagating a world of like oh I was very lucky because that's much easier to say than oh I was very skilled. Like a so a false humility or? Yeah kind of false humility but it's a thing that I'm aware of that like people are very quick to say publicly. Oh I was just very lucky. And of course everybody who's living in the first world is already like very lucky. I think it hides a certain truth sometimes from people who are looking at the jobs from afar and that also leads to this feeling of like oh it's just within the arms reach. I was at a bar the other day in New York and I was talking to this guy from Scotland. He was at the bar buying drinks for his family. He was like a bit older than me. He said what do you do for a job? We were just chatting. Oh I make YouTube videos. And he's like oh my son loves YouTube videos. He's always on YouTube. He wants to be a YouTuber etc etc. And then he said he asked me normal questions. What are your videos about? No I said oh mathematics and science and I do this and that. We spoke for two or three minutes. And then his son who was the huge YouTube fan came up to the bar to stand next to him and he goes he says to his son, oh see this guy here I'm talking to. He's a job he's a YouTuber and the young guy looks at me. First thing he says, how many subscribers have you got? I was like oh well I've got a few different channels but my biggest channels got like you know about two and a half million. And then he sort of went cool nodded like I approve and then he walked away. Didn't ask what the channel was, what it was about but the only thing that mattered was are you legit have you got subscribers. And I've spoken to other people like a few times I've been with people with their kids and it's come up that I make YouTube videos or they're talking about their kids. And they're saying yeah Billy wants to be a YouTuber. And this woman was saying she sits and she leaves drops on them because all three or four of them all want to be YouTubers. And they sit around in the lounge talking about their plans, cooking their plans to become YouTubers. And she said all they talk about is ways to get subscribers. And it's not usually through content. It's not if we made an incredible video that people enjoy. This will grow our brand and will become they're always just thinking of tricks and ways to game the system and get subscribers because that's all they equate success to. And it's become the whole like it's all this number even though you know we've talked to the cows come home about what an irrelevant number that is. It's really interesting to me now that it's like it's become the metric of success as well. Not millions of dollars not having a Mercedes or a Rolls Royce. It's like this is the way I'll measure how good I am where I belong in the picking order of the universe. And you were approved as legit by that teenager who came by. He still didn't say what are you called? I want to check you out. It was just like you know I was so taken aback that was the question and the only question. Right. That is a strange experience. I feel like I've been very down on things but I would still say like if you want to go for it like go for it and make YouTube videos like give it a shot. But it's also a thing where you should expect to see actual positive feedback over not necessarily in like a crazy long time horizon. I've always said that where it's like I can't think of any YouTube channel I've ever seen where if you go back and you watch their first videos. First videos aren't often good but there's something there you can see that there's like a spark of something there. And that's what you get positive feedback for is like people don't expect them to be the best but also if you have ambitions to be a YouTuber or filmmaker or work in television or anything like that. It is getting to a stage now where it kind of you should be making YouTube videos because someone was saying to me the other day like he started as a TV intern and went and applied for a job at the BBC. Many many years ago and they said yeah you've got something we're going to teach you how to make TV and he said if I went to that job interview now and they said tell us about yourself prove to us that you're interested in TV. If he'd sat there and said oh I've never made a YouTube video or I've never done anything like that you'd be laughed out of the interview as not being serious about it like I think there's an expectation now if you want to work in this field like if you sit there with some film director or with the BBC or NBC or something asking for a job working in television. And you haven't been dabbling now when editing software as affordable cameras are affordable you can make films on your phone like the question could legit him at least he asked are you serious about this as a job you haven't even been trying and all this stuff so easy to do now so if you're legit and want to do this as a job I would say you should probably be dabbling just to prove an interest. I never even thought about that but I guess I guess that makes total sense that in the world of media it's not even a positive thing is basically the minimum requirement. You want to work here show us that you actually have an interest in doing this thing well great we're running out of time but I think we should open a couple more because because like so many that are open. Oh like this one's got nice wax seal on up. This one of an nice little card that's asking about countries animal symbols. So America everybody knows it's the bald eagle Ukraine has a bear Scotland is a unicorn. What's Australia's national animal I don't know well on the national crest of Australia they have an e-mu and a kangaroo or an e-mu as you would say right. I've famously said the word e-mu in one of his videos that I still can't get over the shock of an e-mu and a kangaroo each holding like the shield in place and supposedly those two animals are chosen because they're two animals that can't like step backwards very easily. I don't know if that's an urban myth but everyone says it. Those two are the national animal you don't you Australia hasn't picked one hasn't decided they must have picked one I don't know. Right which would you go with I would I would I would confidently bet that the national animal of Australia is a kangaroo okay how do you feel about that don't check it don't reach for your phone. I want to know now I've put my cards on the table how do I feel about it yeah completely the right decision because that's what everyone in the world would expect it to be. What do you think about having the eagle it's awesome it's an awesome bird yeah like come on that's why America puts that bald eagle on everything right all the military stuff everything gets the body got the post office it looks like it's both I'm looking here at some list here of national animals and it says the red kangaroo and the e-mu so it looks like they didn't decide. National animals I'm going to give you a couple of other countries see if you can guess their national animal you ready okay Austria bear they have a type of eagle and also a small swallow. I should have thought of it right that's a national bird that's not the eagle no sorry the red kangaroo is the national animal of Australia and the e-mu is just the national bird they often list a national animal and a national bird but only those two Canada animal of Canada the maple tree you should get this should it is equally cliched it's not a moves is it no no that would be in a good guest to what is it it's the North American beaver of course China a dragon it is oh my god also the panda though they're both national animals I was going for like the most Chinese thing I could think of like can you have an imaginary animal is your animal I guess you can scroll down to the US because I think that the national animal may be the American bison and that the ball eagle is the national bird the bowl eagle is the national bird the American bison is the national mammal oh so I don't know what to think about well if they don't list another national animal than the the bison then gets to be the national animal is there awesome we got some pretty kick ass animals tens and he has got the giraffe which is awesome that's pretty good I don't mean to distract you Brady but I have a very important question here which is what is the best tasting Christmas cookie shape cookie shape yeah so you get Christmas cookies yeah they come in different shapes yeah what would you suggest it shapes such as gingerbread people tree snowman candy cane stocking are we assuming that the flavors the same in which shape the flavor is the same yeah so a Christmas cookie yeah but what shape is the most delicious I the Christmas tree Christmas tree yeah clear there's no other answer to that how is it even a debate I'm glad we agree on that Christmas I've never seen us agree on anything so hard to lay look at this for a lovely picture on this car that's been sent oh wow they've made a wreath out of the nail and gear yeah it's really nice so the gear part is like a wreath with like you know red berries and green and the nail goes across it's a very clever Christmas design hi Brady and Gray praise first we always like the they write praise first that's not me saying praise first I absolutely adore the podcasts you often contribute to making my work more bearable well you actually make it enjoyable that's nice my Christmas question for you is if you were to write a book what kind of book would you write this is from Sophie in Denmark please hug the dogs from me what would you if you're gonna write a book oh this is like asking me the PhD topic that I would do right is I I sure would love to have written a book but I have a difficulty making it to the end of my 1500 word scripts yeah and I can't conceive of being able to write a book length project I just wouldn't make it did you ever write stories when you're young did you write little novels and things oh yeah but this is this is one of the what I think of like I'm not going to do it that but this is this is one of the what I think of like key things in life is understanding your limitations and I remember making a very conscious decision at one point in life going you know what this fiction this isn't going anywhere you know this is a this isn't gonna work out for you buddy if you need to stop this and I did like I just I stopped and I never wrote anything again after that point like I was it was a Christmas in college like I remember it's so you were old it wasn't like you're a boy riding like a oh yeah you thought okay I've got it was American novel in me and yeah I was like a thing that I was tinkering with and it was it was an intercession at college and I'd like I remember the particular library and I decided to give it like a real go yeah and like let me let me actually try this for a while like because the thing I've been tinkering with yeah and then I looked at and I was like well I've made a clear decision this is a bad idea can you give me one nugget one thing about that book like a character's I don't honestly don't even remember what it was just a member that I like said aside a bunch of time and was trying to work on stuff and was like this is all terrible knowing you you just spent the whole time like making lists and checklists and structures and stuff I never actually wrote a word no no I remember it like I remember writing stuff but it was not good I mean so if I had to do something I would it like okay nonfiction immediately yeah but I just don't think I have the patience for a book length project in me it's tough it's tough gig what about you Brady history of Adelaide history probably I would love to write a novel but I don't think I have it like I don't know if I'm good at it probably not but when I have like dabbled and written a few pages I've looked at it and been like a bit embarrassed like like who we want to read stuff that I've made up and maybe it's because it's so terrible so actually terrible so let me ask you this is a final question this isn't a question from a card but this is a question okay what are we going to do with all these cards full of questions we haven't answered and messages we haven't read yeah I mean still have bags of Christmas cards yeah I think 12 days of Hello Internet it's just not enough Hello Internet for the people they need more there's not going to be an episode tomorrow is there but okay but yeah so listen you now have probably been spoiled with a bunch of Hello Internets in the row spoil what you mean spam so we're going to resume our regularly scheduled random programming yeah but I think we should revisit some of the unopened cards at some point in the future not too distant future as well because that would be you know yeah but like genuinely people have like it's been so nice reading all of these things and people have put a lot of effort into these cards and there's like so many things we can't possibly even have mentioned on the show a card I really like that I'll just mention at the end here which summarizes things is a picture of us at Christmas time but the Christmas tree is falling on top of me which hasn't happened in reality it's not blooming here every day that I've come to visit so like there's so many just so many details we can't possibly mention but I think we should give another go to these some of the cards that are remaining yeah because we it's just it's been so much and I'd like to try to do do some more because of all the effort people have put into this but don't send any more because right right we've joined a line under yeah don't yeah no more coming in yeah the bags that are here at Brady's house that's the end of it yeah but it's been really fun going through all these Christmas cards and genuinely thank you to everyone for sending them in yeah thank you and thank you for enjoying era 12 days 12 days of hello Internet Merry Christmas Brady all that was days ago now that was like 12 days ago no no one knows okay are we keeping up this charade or we not keeping up this charade I don't even know well then you're sending your mooshing me Merry Christmas for like a few days time then I'm so confused we've causing time paradox it's it's we've just ripped the space time continue yeah quick abort abort abort
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