Open Source Meeting/2008-08-21

* [14:01] Squirrel Wood: quick question.... the SL client gets stuck at the region handshake when I try to log in from work... what can I do about it?
* [14:01] Rob Linden: thanks Michelle2 for the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
* [14:02] Carjay McGinnis: where's the soft one?
* [14:02] Rob Linden: Squirrel....not sure, probably a firewall issue
* [14:02] Q Linden: squirrel, guessing it's a port problem?
* [14:02] Squirrel Wood: It gets past the login. just the handshake fails
* [14:03] Rob Linden: I'll (eventually) be posting the transcript from this meeting on the wiki, so bear that in mind while you type
* [14:03] Carjay McGinnis: so the xmlrpc part works?
* [14:03] Squirrel Wood: I would assume it does
* [14:04] Rob Linden: pinged Soft, but we can probably get started
* [14:04] Rob Linden: 1. Discussion of Trunk branch, build issues, updates on 1.21's QA progress etc Michelle2 Zenovka 08:58, 21 August 2008 (PDT)
* [14:04] Rob Linden: (this is a Soft-centric issue, though)
* [14:04] Liana Linden: Hey, folks. Can the rest of you see the agenda up on the big screen?
* [14:04] Carjay McGinnis: thus the question for the soft one
* [14:05] Siddhartha Fonda: where is it
* [14:05] Michelle2 Zenovka: not yet, not showing web media on parcel
* [14:05] Harleen Gretzky: yes, the hand
* [14:05] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: can see it.
* [14:05] Siddhartha Fonda: oh
* [14:05] McCabe Maxsted: I can, but the text's pretty tiny
* [14:05] Michelle2 Zenovka: ther eit goes
* [14:05] Liana Linden: Click "play" on your media control panel.
* [14:05] Siddhartha Fonda: gotcha
* [14:05] Siddhartha Fonda: yeah see it now
* [14:05] Carjay McGinnis: only a big hand
* [14:05] Michelle2 Zenovka: if you zoom it its fine
* [14:05] Carjay McGinnis: oh, it turns black
* [14:06] Carjay McGinnis: ah, now, cool
* [14:06] Liana Linden: Great. Sorry to interrupt, Rob.
* [14:06] Rob Linden: can't see it acutally...but that's ok
* [14:07] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: 3 points.. 2 defaults
* [14:07] Michelle2 Zenovka: I rasied this issue to see if anyone else was still having any general issues with cmake and to get an inside update on progress of the branch
* [14:07] Thomas Shikami: Greetings
* [14:07] Carjay McGinnis: inside update sounds nice
* [14:08] Michelle2 Zenovka: We had the little struct issue with gcc 4.3.1 which i fogot to tell anyone about, and cmake 2.6.2 but i think things from outside are basicly working
* [14:08] Carjay McGinnis: that was fixed already if I saw correctly
* [14:08] Michelle2 Zenovka: can't remember if fmod mess got resolved
* [14:08] Rob Linden: Soft is on his way. I don't think there's any big updates, though
* [14:08] Michelle2 Zenovka: yes soft pushed an immediate fix then is going to clean it up again later
* [14:09] Thomas Shikami: isn't cmake 2.4.x used?
* [14:09] Carjay McGinnis: it's always intriguing how many weird things are accepted by the microsoft compiler
* [14:09] Michelle2 Zenovka: thats the offical supported version
* [14:09] Michelle2 Zenovka: 2.6.0 and 2.6.1 don't work correctly but there is a 2.6.2-RC on cmake.org/files that does work
* [14:09] Rob Linden: Soft: we're on 1. Discussion of Trunk branch, build issues, updates on 1.21's QA progress etc Michelle2 Zenovka 08:58, 21 August 2008 (PDT)
* [14:09] Carjay McGinnis: greetings Soft
* [14:09] Michelle2 Zenovka: Hey soft
* [14:09] Soft Linden: Hey hey
* [14:10] Thomas Shikami: and sorry if I'm asking the obvious, sometimes people just forget about the trivial stuff and then wonder, why something doesn't work
* [14:10] Aimee Trescothick: (Would putting the prim on fullbright make the agenda clearer to read?)
* [14:10] Michelle2 Zenovka: Thomas: you mean the cmake versions?
* [14:10] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: shakes his head.. "It's light enough in daylight.. Fontype is just too small.
* [14:11] Thomas Shikami: yes, that's an example
* [14:11] Michelle2 Zenovka: yea cmake 2.6.2-rc is not widely enough known about
* [14:11] McCabe Maxsted: is the build page on the wiki updated?
* [14:11] Rob Linden: I'm still puttering along on this spec: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Rob_Linden/Build_Tool_Improvement_Spec_-_2008. I've got some feedback that I still need to incorporate
* [14:12] Rob Linden: ..but that's going to be a while to go from spec to code
* [14:12] Michelle2 Zenovka: I don't think anyone has that cmake issue up anywhere yet, i can add it to my page which is also referenced alot
* [14:12] Carjay McGinnis: we need a agenda HUD
* [14:14] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: would be handy yes..
* [14:14] Rob Linden: Soft, is there any short term stuff that's going to be useful for folks to know about here vis a vis build improvements?
* [14:15] Rob Linden: can't think of anything
* [14:15] Soft Linden: Michelle's page is actually the best. I'd be happy if we base our official 1.21 build instructions off of hers
* [14:15] Rob Linden: ah, yes, instructions=good
* [14:15] Michelle2 Zenovka: I though Rob's was a rewrite of mine
* [14:15] Soft Linden: I believe we're running out of surprises now, though.
* [14:15] Michelle2 Zenovka: Timescales?
* [14:15] Soft Linden: I'm sorry - I think I misunderstood the question. The existing build improvements I'm talking about, not the proposed stuff.
* [14:16] Michelle2 Zenovka: i'm kind of talking about 1.21 hitting RC
* [14:16] Michelle2 Zenovka: in conjunction with the build improvments that will be live
* [14:17] Rob Linden: 1.21 RC should be real soon now. the 1.24 server deploy was the main blocker for that I believe
* [14:17] Michelle2 Zenovka: 1.21 has mono compile too?
* [14:17] McCabe Maxsted: I've been having a lot of crashes with 1.21; I assume that's due to the extra debug stuff, yeah?
* [14:17] Carjay McGinnis: ok, was already wondering why things got so quiet recently
* [14:17] Soft Linden: 1.21 will be very close to what you see in release right now. Yes, mono compile should be there.
* [14:17] Michelle2 Zenovka: cool
* [14:17] Soft Linden: release/ - now trunk/
* [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: mono tick box is there in trunk now
* [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [14:18] Michelle2 Zenovka: i've not actualy been running trunk only building it, lol
* [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: lol
* [14:18] Carjay McGinnis: still waiting for the python tick box
* [14:18] Michelle2 Zenovka: ha
* [14:18] McCabe Maxsted: hehe
* [14:18] Rob Linden: you'll have to forgive future confused Lindens....internally, "trunk" is still the "release" branch
* [14:19] Thomas Shikami: still looking for a mono tick box for agent inventory compile
* [14:19] Soft Linden: Hopefully we remedy that. Release as three different things in concept, name and target is just silly.
* [14:19] Rob Linden: ....though those of us who have suggested renaming the internal "release" branch have gotten many +1s
* [14:20] Carjay McGinnis: do it on a quiet lonely night
* [14:20] Carjay McGinnis: and then take a long vacation
* [14:20] Soft Linden: Ha :>
* [14:20] Carjay McGinnis: when you return everything will have worked itself out
* [14:20] Soft Linden: The blocking thing is that it will complicate a lot of existing branches merging back into trunk.
* [14:21] Soft Linden: We're pushing to move off of subversion, so it's been proposed that if we do that in the near future, we do the rename then as well.
* [14:21] Carjay McGinnis: well, we had so many weird issues due to renaming things in svn
* [14:21] Soft Linden: Exactly.
* [14:21] Michelle2 Zenovka: yea i can't believe sub version is holding up with the amout of branching and sub development you do, it must be a merge nightmare
* [14:21] Rob Linden: k....anything else we need to discuss on item #1, or can we move on?
* [14:21] Q Linden: startles awake, screaming
* [14:22] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:22] Rob Linden: next up: 2. Any directly related to secondlife, opensource projects anyone wants yo update on (i have one hence my item) Michelle2 Zenovka 11:01, 21 August 2008 (PDT)
* [14:22] Michelle2 Zenovka: well firsly i wanted to bring up the debian package of the viewer..
* [14:23] Rob Linden: do tell
* [14:23] Michelle2 Zenovka: Mozilla has finally bitten and hard, one of the critical libs has vanished from debianb testing and unstable and now i have massive ABI breakage on xulrunner
* [14:23] Carjay McGinnis: oh, you were unable to find it?
* [14:24] Rob Linden: I had heard from Callum that the 1.8 to 1.9 transition was practically a rewrite for these purposes
* [14:24] Michelle2 Zenovka: even if i do i now have to fork debian and ubuntu
* [14:24] Carjay McGinnis: yikes :-/
* [14:24] Michelle2 Zenovka: ubuntu froze months ago and has the lib, testing is freezing now and does not
* [14:24] Rob Linden: (Mozilla 1.8 to 1.9)
* [14:24] Michelle2 Zenovka: yea its a laugh and a half
* [14:24] Carjay McGinnis: that's silly
* [14:24] Rob Linden: (which is the engine for Firefox 2 and Firefox 3 respectively)
* [14:25] Soft Linden: So ubuntu has it, but likely won't have it in the next release. Debian loses it sooner.
* [14:25] Michelle2 Zenovka: its going to come down to me hosting a version of the package
* [14:25] Michelle2 Zenovka: and if i do that i might just as well fall back to the "linden" way of packaging mozilla
* [14:26] Rob Linden: we've had some hiccups with our webkit evaluation, but we're still coming around to the idea that that's the way forward
* [14:26] Michelle2 Zenovka: i think we were hoping that something may have appeared even as development code
* [14:26] Carjay McGinnis: huccups?
* [14:26] Carjay McGinnis: -u+i
* [14:27] Rob Linden: I can't really go into details. at any rate, we do have some code that I think we should be able to publish
* [14:27] Rob Linden: ...but it still needs A LOT of work
* [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: (hiccips?)
* [14:27] Michelle2 Zenovka: well if its published you can start to get patches ;-)
* [14:28] Carjay McGinnis: still, that does not sound good
* [14:29] Rob Linden: I think there's reasons to be optimistic still
* [14:29] Rob Linden: at any rate....were there other updates you had Michelle2?
* [14:29] Carjay McGinnis: ok, taking your word on it
* [14:29] Michelle2 Zenovka: Yea my other side project
* [14:29] Carjay McGinnis: ;)
* [14:30] Michelle2 Zenovka: i've been working on my own text client
* [14:30] Rob Linden: oh, cool
* [14:30] Michelle2 Zenovka: just though i would announce, its pretty functional, based on Gtk# and mono
* [14:30] Michelle2 Zenovka: mainly because everone else uses dam winforms and latest version is not mono compatible yet
* [14:31] Rob Linden: libsecondlife for the protocol handling, then?
* [14:31] Michelle2 Zenovka: yes
* [14:32] Michelle2 Zenovka: for details
* [14:33] Rob Linden: nice
* [14:33] Carjay McGinnis: yeah, looks promising
* [14:33] Rob Linden: presumably will run on windows, as well, I take it
* [14:34] Michelle2 Zenovka: yes, but you need to e mono Gtk# package
* [14:34] Michelle2 Zenovka: * the mono...
* [14:34] Michelle2 Zenovka: its quite cool i develop in VC# at work and monodevelop at home
* [14:34] Scotts Winkler: hey rob, everyone
* [14:34] Scotts Winkler: late :)
* [14:35] Michelle2 Zenovka: I heard a rumor about the lindens own text client with voice support
* [14:36] Rob Linden: LIES LIES!
* [14:36] Rob Linden: shrugs
* [14:36] Carjay McGinnis: greetings Scotts
* [14:36] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: not in braille writing either ? :|
* [14:36] Siglor Nootan: yay i found lindens!
* [14:37] Rob Linden: Michelle2 (or anyone else) updates on other open source packages?
* [14:38] Rob Linden: (wind blowing)
* [14:39] Michelle2 Zenovka: It was just that from me
* [14:39] A group: member named Bridie Linden gave you don't be a d*ck.
* [14:39] Rob Linden: okee dokee, next item:
* [14:40] Soft Linden: Joe announced a bit on that - you can probably google for articles about it to see what's there. I haven't followed that project myself.
* [14:40] Rob Linden: urgh....not sure if it's appropriate, though: Bau Ur Discussion of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-4094 Ability of persons banned from parcel to build and script at elevation of 800 M over the parcel; also persons banned from a parcel may overhang their objects from an adjoining parcel. This is of considerable concern to sandbox users and sandbox admins trying to provide a good environment for new creators in SL. Lindens involved in governance, community development and resident retention may be interested. 
* [14:40] Carjay McGinnis: was wondering about that one
* [14:40] Thomas Shikami: should be 4096m
* [14:40] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: what is open source about that one ?
* [14:40] Liana Linden: Bau pinged me earlier with an agenda item, and I directed him to post to the wiki. Didn't know what it was about. Is there a better venue for this question?
* [14:40] Michelle2 Zenovka: its not really open source
* [14:41] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: should be handled by G Team, i find *shrug*
* [14:41] Rob Linden: it's a governace thing
* [14:41] Rob Linden: Governance, even
* [14:41] Soft Linden: That's a good topic for the Monday triage. It's already imported, but if it deserves additional weight, that would be a good place to make the argument.
* [14:42] Thomas Shikami: physics team and server programmers
* [14:42] Michelle2 Zenovka: i think we have been around the loops with this type of discussion of over hanging prims etc more than once and as you said there is nothign we can do here, we can't patrch the viewer etc
* [14:42] Liana Linden: I'll reply to Bau and direct him to the Monday triage and/or a governance Linden. Thanks.
* [14:42] Rob Linden: ah, I see, yeah. that issue should probably also be moved to SVC.
* [14:42] Rob Linden: anyhoo
* [14:42] Carjay McGinnis: redirects to SVC-2900 which is assigned to thekellz
* [14:42] Carjay McGinnis: that redirect is nice
* [14:42] Carjay McGinnis: it never shows the VWR-page
* [14:43] Rob Linden: oh, would you look at that
* [14:43] Soft Linden: Yeah. I moved that earlier.
* [14:43] Soft Linden: - ninja.
* [14:43] Rob Linden: yeah, I didn't even notice. ok. anything else we should talk about here
* [14:43] Rob Linden: ?
* [14:44] Rob Linden: Hippo awards coming soon
* [14:44] Michelle2 Zenovka: wooot
* [14:44] Liana Linden: Yep. Will be announced on Sat 9/6.
* [14:44] Liana Linden: At SLCC and right here inworld.
* [14:44] Rob Linden: thinks through other things to discuss....
* [14:44] Liana Linden: Email about that comming soon to sldev.
* [14:44] Michelle2 Zenovka: sighs and thinks thats the 6/9 to all Europeans , lol
* [14:45] Liana Linden: Sorry, I usually spell out the month just for that reason. Sept 6 at noon Pacific Time.
* [14:45] Thomas Shikami: Set. Sep. 6?
* [14:45] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: it's sep 6th to us all .
* [14:45] Rob Linden: careful or I'll go all ISO on your *** ;-)
* [14:45] Michelle2 Zenovka: laughs, only being difficult
* [14:45] Carjay McGinnis: 6.9.
* [14:45] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: lol
* [14:45] Rob Linden: 2008-09-06 .... there
* [14:45] Nyx Linden: 2008-09-06
* [14:46] Aimee Trescothick: prefers 20080906
* [14:46] Liana Linden: In any case, if you're not at SLCC, please join me here at that time and date to hear the announcement of winners.
* [14:46] Soft Linden: 2008-09-06
* [14:46] Soft Linden: Yis
* [14:46] Carjay McGinnis: what do you do in the year 20080?
* [14:46] Soft Linden: 20080-09-06
* [14:46] Aimee Trescothick: 200800906
* [14:46] Carjay McGinnis: yes, meant Aimee
* [14:47] Rob Linden: in other news....
* [14:47] Rob Linden: (I got nuthin)
* [14:47] Carjay McGinnis: that's a tooosday BTW
* [14:47] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: whot?
* [14:47] Soft Linden: By then I'll be using full names, as my petition for January Softuary March will have passed.
* [14:47] Aimee Trescothick: rofl
* [14:47] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: no plans to open source more of the LL code ?
* [14:47] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: no roadmap .. no progress .. nada ?
* [14:47] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: you guys all been on vacation or what ? :|
* [14:48] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: smirks.
* [14:48] Squirrel Wood: open can, eat sauce.
* [14:48] Soft Linden: There's still quite a bit of new stuff appearing, but it's more related to OGP, not the everyday viewer work.
* [14:48] Rob Linden: well, Q started last week in his lead role in Sustaining Engineering, and we've all been going over the patch list much more carefully
* [14:49] Rob Linden: our efforts right now are mainly around detail work rather than splashy new stuff, but that's the theme in general
* [14:49] Rob Linden: Mono is about as splashy as it gets
* [14:49] Michelle2 Zenovka: Hmm just seen one of my JIRA patches is taged as fix pending VWR-4981
* [14:49] Squirrel Wood: Mono has been in testing for quite some time though
* [14:50] Rob Linden: we're mulling over some ways of working with regular contributors more efficiently
* [14:50] Rob Linden: how many of you have three or more patches pending?
* [14:50] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: just curios .. since nothing has been published much on SLDEV since oct 2007 either..
* [14:51] Michelle2 Zenovka: pending as in "fix pending" or just out there on JIRA?
* [14:51] Rob Linden: (as in, unresolved, not just "fix pending")
* [14:51] Michelle2 Zenovka: i've got a handful
* [14:51] Rob Linden: I know Aimee does as well. Carjay, I'm assuming you do too
* [14:51] Carjay McGinnis: looking, lost track a bit
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: waves
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [14:52] Carjay McGinnis: ok, 3 unresolved, but fix pending
* [14:52] Michelle2 Zenovka: i've got one i need to look at again, its acceped in principle, but needs another round of tidying
* [14:52] Carjay McGinnis: rest resolved or fixed
* [14:52] Rob Linden: that's reassuring
* [14:53] Michelle2 Zenovka: a few of mine are things like crazy mozzila stuff which there is no real resolution
* [14:53] Rob Linden: I think we've gotten a lot better in general, but haven't done a good job of really tracking that in a deep way
* [14:53] Michelle2 Zenovka: i've got one or two which are clear bug fixes that have not been applied
* [14:53] Squirrel Wood: Things have improved so you are moving in the right direction ^^
* [14:53] Carjay McGinnis: aha!
* [14:53] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: nods.
* [14:54] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: Things have improved... much.. admitted..
* [14:54] Carjay McGinnis: indeed
* [14:54] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: ok .. q ?
* [14:54] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: the voice implementation .. i 'm not sure it's .. done yet
* [14:55] Rob Linden: Michelle2: which ones are those?
* [14:55] Q Linden: Will -- what do you mean?
* [14:55] Michelle2 Zenovka: VWR-8194 but the fix may have bypassed JIRA as i pinged sldev on that as well (thats carjays effort too on this one)
* [14:56] Michelle2 Zenovka: and someone i forget who was excited about it
* [14:56] Liana Linden: Running off to another meeting. Thanks all.
* [14:56] Soft Linden: It's been a few weeks on that one - I can add a note pinging the Linden who owns that internally.
* [14:57] Soft Linden: It's assigned to the right guy, he's just a very busy one.
* [14:57] Michelle2 Zenovka: Yea its a clear buffer overrun and easy to fix
* [14:57] Carjay McGinnis: hm, actually not that easy if you want to do it properly
* [14:57] Carjay McGinnis: you'd have to write some tests for it afterwards
* [14:58] Michelle2 Zenovka: the proper way is to not use an artifical buffer for GL calls
* [14:58] Michelle2 Zenovka: may be thats the blocker? its going to be done properly with a render pipe rewrite of that section
* [14:59] Carjay McGinnis: well, the proper way is not to use immediate mode at all
* [14:59] Rob Linden: yeah, there's definitely some rework planned in that general area
* [14:59] Rob Linden: well, we're out of time. anything else we should cover here?
* [15:00] Rob Linden: alright, thanks everyone!
* [15:00] Michelle2 Zenovka: nah, call it a night!
* [15:00] Carjay McGinnis: thanks, Rob
* [15:00] Q Linden: thanks, all
* [15:00] Michelle2 Zenovka: Thanks
* [15:00] Harleen Gretzky: ttfn
* [15:00] Aimee Trescothick: thank q :D
* [15:00] WiLLuMPJuH Footman: nods goodbye and retreats.
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