Doc Team/2009-11-18

== List of Attendees ==
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== Transcript ==
[12:58]	:	hey Torley
[12:58]	:	THE DOCTOR IS IN! And rezzing... hey Daniel!
[12:58]	:	asks himeself where is everybody
[12:58]	:	all things Torley :)
[12:58]	:	A fine question, I just tweeted... and I have invites if no one else shows up! Har har.
[12:58]	:	THE DOLPHIN IS IN TOO!
[12:59]	:	I just brought this av about 10 minutes ago
[12:59]	:	its awesome
[12:59]	:	I like the jaw articulations, and you've got a lot of teeth!
[12:59]	:	Do that mouth thing again! Nom nom.
[12:59]	:	one sec
[13:00]	:	I'll show you what it does
[13:00]	:	Oh! Got a pick. AWESOME.
[13:00]	:	hiya torley :)
[13:00]	:	Why hello Bronson!
[13:00]	:	ahh, the AO is not working
[13:00]	:	Oh I can enable scripts here, sec.
[13:00]	 	mode, level 200
[13:00]	:	kk
[13:00]	:	ECHOLOCATION? :D
[13:01]	:	when I talk the waves comes out
[13:01]	:	OH that's schweeeeeeet. So where'd you get it from? Keep doing the sonar thing.
[13:01]	:	That's awesome.
[13:01]	:	greetings :D
[13:01]	:	lol
[13:01]	:	Ramming bubbles too!
[13:01]	:	Welcome, Ellla!
[13:02]	:	thank you .. hello everyone :))
[13:02]	:	Torley can I show a youtube link in im?
[13:02]	:	it has the sounds too
[13:02]	:	Yes, Bronson.
[13:02]	:	You've got the whole dolphin-tastic experience!
[13:02]	:	Indeed Torley :)
[13:02]	:	hello!
[13:02]	:	I don't think Jon or Jeremy can make it today but I reckon Kate was gonna be here.
[13:02]	:	OMG DINO BATTLES, Youri, that's kewl.
[13:02]	:	LOL
[13:02]	:	:p
[13:02]	:	Thanks Bronson! I'll watch soon.
[13:02]	:	thanks torley
[13:03]	:	you can find this one at grendels :)
[13:03]	:	BEE ARR BEE
[13:03]	:	oh, I have just been there
[13:03]	:	got this av
[13:03]	:	i just nodded it slightly, to fit bumpmapping
[13:03]	:	Hiya
[13:03]	:	Hiya
[13:03]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/34960
[13:03]	:	looks like daniel been scavaging around grendels as well :p
[13:04]	:	Hydar!
[13:04]	:	yup :)
[13:04]	 	doesn't know, if that's a Dolphin or a Fahrt
[13:04]	:	dolphin
[13:04]	:	Hey Melchizedek, Arawn, Mari!
[13:04]	:	hehe
[13:04]	:	He wore that avatar... on porpoise
[13:04]	:	techicial its > RX_Avarian_Dolphin_Striped
[13:04]	:	i like the other dolphin edition, that machine version
[13:04]	:	Apparently I'm a plague doctor but I appear to be more like a Spy vs. Spy!
[13:04]	:	hi all
[13:04]	:	lol
[13:04]	:	lol
[13:04]	:	spy vs spy
[13:04]	:	yeas
[13:04]	:	lol
[13:05]	:	lol daniel
[13:05]	:	Haha Daniel it looks like you're hypnotizing me.
[13:05]	:	So today seems fairly quiet! What's new and exciting?
[13:05]	:	hahaha
[13:05]	:	think you may become daniel's food torley :p
[13:05]	:	(Anyone is free to bring up topics, yes...)
[13:05]	:	I've just been reading Gesundheit!, where the best thing to wear to a plague, is a clown suit
[13:05]	:	run
[13:05]	:	I'm pretty thin and I have the plague, so maybe it's not the best idea!
[13:05]	:	SVC-5002, needs a reference to the limits page
[13:06]	:	sad news about SL Mentors today
[13:06]	:	now you offering, euhm... with CT meeting we had some interresting discussions about the wiki
[13:06]	:	some people seem to find it difficult to work with it
[13:06]	:	How so, specifically?
[13:06]	:	Is the volunteer effort formally buried?
[13:06]	:	hey fisher :)
[13:06]	:	Hey Youri
[13:06]	:	well, as i said last time
[13:06]	:	Arawn, specify further?
[13:06]	:	its going to be closed on 12th december
[13:06]	:	the making of new pages, adding things, etc
[13:06]	:	or 11th
[13:06]	:	Hey FIsher (who probably still doesn't have a bear!)
[13:06]	:	it seems to hard for some people
[13:07]	:	Arawn, the mentor program has been killed.
[13:07]	:	I'm sorry. I don't yet have a beat
[13:07]	:	bear
[13:07]	:	I always need more specifics because some things we can make really obvious. Other things are simple if you practice for a few minutes (understandably, new tools can seem scary).
[13:07]	:	good heavens, Nyx doesn't have one either.
[13:07]	:	I'm trying though
[13:07]	:	Heya Sisop, Fisher, Techwolf, Aargle, all joining us! :D
[13:07]	:	make one fisher! you know we want it :D
[13:07]	:	I thought them more scalable, than Linden Labs Support
[13:07]	:	YESSS... MAKE... DA BEAR...
[13:07]	:	thanks, Torley
[13:07]	:	see, even torley wants it :p
[13:07]	:	lol
[13:07]	:	I am making one. It's just hard work and I have other work to do too
[13:07]	:	loves bears
[13:07]	:	im making a x-mass bear btw
[13:08]	:	wooot
[13:08]	:	Arawn, we're actually expanding volunteer help via the Resident Help Network and offworld in SL Answers too.
[13:08]	:	brb
[13:08]	:	Would you like to make it a Linden Beer?
[13:08]	:	not sure when ill be having it done tho
[13:08]	:	hard to come up with something new sometimes
[13:08]	:	its basicly a linden bear idea :)
[13:08]	:	like al the bears i done :)
[13:08]	:	cant rezz here, but else ill show a few
[13:09]	:	Linden Beer?
[13:09]	:	that would be a killer idea
[13:09]	:	lol
[13:09]	:	hm...
[13:09]	:	Linden Microbrew
[13:09]	:	mighty tasty
[13:09]	 	ponders that one.
[13:09]	:	Sumerians shared their beers from a common jar
[13:09]	:	Zymurgy = beer brewing.
[13:10]	:	tasty for dolphins lol
[13:10]	:	you just have a to ask any linden over IM for their bear, most have one. they usually give it as soon as they see the mssg
[13:10]	:	Linden is also a kind of lime tree so it makes sense.
[13:10]	:	KATE!
[13:10]	:	hey kate! :)
[13:10]	:	hiya Kate
[13:10]	:	Hi Torley :)
[13:10]	:	Hi all
[13:10]	:	brew beer with some spice and kaffir lime leaves.
[13:10]	:	might be an interesting combination
[13:10]	:	Hey Kate!
[13:10]	:	Hey!
[13:11]	:	hiya kate :)
[13:11]	:	Is it safe to brew, with Citrus Leaves? I know the Apple is mostly toxic
[13:11]	:	How is everyone today?
[13:11]	:	good
[13:11]	:	great here kate, ty for asking!
[13:11]	:	how about yourself?
[13:11]	:	Doing well thanks :)
[13:11]	:	good to hear :p
[13:12]	:	and hiya Jeremy didnt see you behind the dinosaur
[13:12]	:	Romulus, you've got a pretty cool on button!
[13:12]	:	lol thanks
[13:12]	:	well, Arawn, those leaves are actually used in cooking
[13:12]	:	oh im not sitting on him i hope
[13:12]	:	Your avatar is awesome too
[13:12]	:	^_^ I cure disease! Or at least, try to. Sometimes I make it worse and that always sucks!
[13:12]	:	D:
[13:13]	:	Welcome each & everyone to our Second Life Documentation, Tips & Tricks... and what have you not... chat session! So-called "floor" or "dock" is open to discussion so feel free to bring up questions & curiosities.
[13:13]	:	Kate Linden and myself are here today on behalf of Doc Team.
[13:13]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/34961
[13:14]	:	I'm wondering if I should scoot over to Yale, where Ainsley's Father is sick. It's bad enough being sick, but as therapy you can go to a hospital, so sickness isn't the worst that can happen
[13:14]	:	ill do the log today, no problem :)
[13:14]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/34962
[13:15]	:	Hi Chat, welcome :)
[13:15]	:	http://secondlife.com/kb is the prime (EASY) link to Second Life official help files, if ye didn't already knoweth.
[13:15]	:	I'm prolly gonna post a tip soon on Z-fighting (prim flicker), that's a common problem.
[13:15]	:	yeah thats highly annoying
[13:15]	:	Any HOT STUFF requests are gratefully acknowledged.
[13:15]	:	Sorry I'm late. Still rezzing.
[13:15]	:	euhm torley... why the same mssg on twitter? :p
[13:15]	:	hey chat :)
[13:15]	 	sings, "everybody was Z prim fighting...."
[13:15]	:	hi Youri ㋡
[13:16]	:	Youri, wha?
[13:16]	:	Them prims was fast as lightening
[13:16]	:	whaihallodar ^.^
[13:16]	:	everyone
[13:16]	:	torley
[13:16]	:	torley
[13:16]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Prim_flicker
[13:16]	:	The second is a quote from Unklebob via SL Answers, where I hang out almost every day!
[13:16]	:	hmm... was the same a min ago... o_0 twitter playing tricks on me
[13:16]	:	It cracked me up, he's talking about stray Linden prims.
[13:17]	 	waves hello
[13:17]	:	Some Residents are like, "Ooh! A Linden left prims on my lawn! Maybe I'll make a shrine."
[13:17]	 	waves back to Niky.
[13:17]	:	lol
[13:17]	:	•:*¨ Eh hehehehe haha! ¨*:•
[13:17]	 	has seen a couple "Philip Prim" shrines
[13:17]	:	Linden Prim Litter?
[13:17]	:	Also, in only tangentially-related news, my alt has been getting back into roleplay, so if you have any suggestions for communities to check out, let us know.
[13:18]	:	Dang! I feel deprived, nobody left prims on my land.
[13:18]	:	Mari, I know the one in... Boardman I think, there was another long gone. Where are the ones you're thinking of?
[13:18]	:	that's always fun, but it's been ages for me, too.
[13:18]	:	not into rp lately, sorry, cant help you on this one atm
[13:18]	:	There was one in Bay City - Docklands of all places
[13:18]	:	D&D style RP is what I like if I can.
[13:18]	:	Been to Siden?
[13:18]	:	One time I made the mistake of unleashing 1,000 physical balls... in the snowy Regions...
[13:19]	:	Oooh I didn't know that one, Mari! Is it pretty easy to see?
[13:19]	:	Someone left a sailboat on my parcel, but I'm letting it stay, as it classes up the place.
[13:19]	:	bubbles
[13:19]	:	What's cool in Siden, Arawn?
[13:19]	:	Haha Cisop, have a link? (If you wanna share.)
[13:19]	:	I've no idea, but I know the author
[13:19]	:	Nice dolphins.... Hmmm... suddenly Hitchhikers Guide to Galaxy came to mind.... wonder why... lol
[13:19]	:	I dunno. I need to find it myself, but I did see it on Snapz the other day
[13:19]	:	It has a hospital from Steven King
[13:19]	:	•:*¨ Eh hehehehe haha! ¨*:•
[13:20]	:	Big Stephen King fan here. Need to check that out!
[13:20]	:	There's a tond of Philip prims littering the rosedale sim, but no one made a shrine to them
[13:20]	:	M found something interesting im sure you love to see torley, lemme find the lm for you
[13:20]	:	Hahaha Youri this I'm curious about.
[13:20]	:	lol
[13:20]	:	http://slurl.com/secondlife/Karyukai/239/100/24 is where the sailboat is parked.
[13:20]	:	Mari, haha, I remember being there with Philip for some of that. :)
[13:20]	:	Thanks Cisop!
[13:20]	:	np
[13:20]	:	(And do you still have all those spheres under the ice near Wengen Toelry?)
[13:20]	:	I'd like to find a Diskworld RP setting.
[13:20]	:	Have you guys got a gesture meaning "So long, and thanks for all the fish?"
[13:20]	:	Yes, some of those are still out there Mari, I clean up some on request!
[13:20]	 	ax xii ivxoc
[13:21]	:	Ankh-Morpork FTW.
[13:21]	:	Shouldn't they be returnable through About Land -> Objects?
[13:21]	:	Arawn, yes, some were on Protected Land, tho.
[13:21]	:	I love the dolphin avatars Daniel and Nicholas. Sonar is cool.
[13:21]	:	In #SL #SecondLife at the University of Western Australia checking out the art exhibit. Very cool! http://bit.ly/2n1lDT 3:19 PM Nov 17th from TweetDeck
[13:21]	 	grins
[13:21]	:	Thank Yoo :D
[13:21]	:	thanks Torley. will visit
[13:22]	:	http://twitter.com/mlindenSL
[13:22]	:	i was there quicker then he was for some reason :p
[13:22]	:	I can collect SLurls like potato chips.
[13:22]	:	lol
[13:22]	:	I usually put on some nice music and go exploring, I make the most of it.
[13:22]	:	No one can link just one
[13:22]	:	hmm... think i found a notecard from that place, ill send
[13:22]	:	TRUTH.
[13:22]	 	gave you UWA 3D Art & Design Challenge - 75,000L Prize & Artist Tribute.
[13:22]	:	there ya go
[13:23]	:	...Floating pillow?
[13:23]	:	which place youri?
[13:23]	:	?
[13:23]	:	ty Kate :)
[13:23]	 	doesn't explore as much as he used to
[13:23]	:	pasted in chat :p
[13:23]	:	The floating pillow is a seat
[13:23]	:	kk
[13:23]	:	Do you miss it, Aargyle?
[13:23]	:	oh.
[13:23]	:	there, think thats the one chat
[13:23]	:	lol
[13:23]	:	ty Youri
[13:23]	:	No worries, Torley. I find things like those spheres (or your dinos out on some island in Sansara) as part of the charm
[13:24]	:	ill be posting a review on the place soon as well, pics and everything
[13:24]	:	Hahaha Mari, I think I forgot about those... the dinos were used for early WindLight testing! Every one of these things I drop has a story.
[13:24]	:	well, Torley, to tell the truth, only way I can do it anymore is as an alt.
[13:24]	:	Jason: right click on it and select sit from the pie menu
[13:24]	:	It was April 2006, I remember it now...
[13:24]	:	Er, 2007.
[13:24]	:	lol
[13:24]	:	lol
[13:24]	:	Aargle, do you find you get interrupted too much?
[13:24]	:	I am sitting on a floating pillow.
[13:25]	:	comfy
[13:25]	:	YESH
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	Youri, it almost looks like you could add to our barrel collection. Just a thought.
[13:25]	 	gave you IM Hell.
[13:25]	:	that picture might explain, Torley. :-)
[13:25]	 	stares at *IM Hell* and NODS, I CAN TOTALLY RELATE.
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	lol, how come torley?
[13:25]	:	sorry torely
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	to be honest, it's also a bit difficult to capture some of the feeling our new friend Jason is having.
[13:25]	:	IMs are like a cellphone for me, I love to chat inworld and immerse but, just too much going on.
[13:26]	:	a little bewildering, a little crazy, definitely interesting if you've got a good sense of creativity
[13:26]	:	Haha, am I bothering people here?
[13:26]	:	i hate cellphones :p
[13:26]	:	lol
[13:26]	:	got one myself, but havnt used it for over a year
[13:26]	:	Not at all Jason :)
[13:26]	:	Jason, not at all! You're at Doc Team's office hour. We write help and do awesome stuff.
[13:26]	:	torley, how come on the barrel thing?
[13:26]	:	So ha ha ha if you have questions about our help files you're totally in the right place. ^_^
[13:26]	:	What'sthe help page, for how to bother people?
[13:26]	:	Just noticed you have kewl barrels on your dino-back, Youri.
[13:26]	:	but those first few weeks here were SO much fun doing exploring
[13:26]	:	lol, free thing for this avi
[13:27]	:	can get them at grendels as well
[13:27]	:	should be on the floor there
[13:27]	:	I remember my first experiences with just about everything here, Aargle. The sheer naivety and joy. I was all like "Oh ohh! Show me how to do that!"
[13:27]	:	Dinos had beer kegs?
[13:27]	:	Do some vehicle testing; drive until the physics engine fails
[13:27]	:	lol
[13:27]	:	just found it a cool thing chat :p
[13:27]	:	How do you think people got their beer, in those days?
[13:27]	:	LOL... yeah... and I was lucky enough to have one good friend like my 2nd or 3rd day here we just ran all over the place.
[13:28]	:	played with bumpmapping on the most of this av
[13:28]	:	she's now one of my business partners and best friends
[13:28]	:	Okay, Jeremy... Kate... Torley... I think it is high time that one of your Lindens on the doc team finally admitted the truth to all of us here,,,
[13:28]	:	Torley my first few months, I flew around alone and nearly peed my pants with excitement when I saw another av LOL
[13:28]	:	Someone got hungry an ate Jon, and you have the prim version to throw us off the trail, huh?
[13:28]	:	That's fantastic, Aargle. I find that makes the difference so often, if someone has one or a few good friends in their first few days or hours, it's incredibly positive. Going through those experiences together.
[13:28]	:	lol
[13:28]	:	•:*¨ Eh hehehehe haha! ¨*:•
[13:28]	:	lol
[13:28]	:	same for my furry armor, modded it as well today, ysed to have a single jetbeam, now has 3 beams
[13:29]	:	kinda looks cool
[13:29]	:	I"ve found a lot of new people slip through the cracks, though, and never find the potential.
[13:29]	:	Aye that's like a crucial, make-and-break time. Some people were convinced to stay despite technical glitches because of a friend.
[13:29]	:	it really depends on thier mindset when they come into the game
[13:30]	 	notes the alliterative name... Bronson Blackadder! Romulus Rhapsody! Meteoric Melody! I was Torley Torgeson myself.
[13:30]	:	lol, what happened?
[13:30]	:	aww, kate crashed
[13:30]	:	some come in... in an hour they say thier bored
[13:30]	:	YESH
[13:30]	 	likes his computer, 'cause all his friends are in there
[13:30]	:	☆*¨¨*:• Giggle •:*¨¨*☆
[13:30]	:	Ah hah! Now we know who ate Jon!
[13:30]	:	But rilly Jon is alive! There's just a lot of... this thing called... work... at inopportune ;) times.
[13:30]	:	lol
[13:30]	:	Hahaha.
[13:30]	:	your right Torley
[13:30]	:	lol
[13:30]	:	no no someone ate him :V
[13:30]	:	didn't notice the names before
[13:30]	:	lol
[13:31]	 	is alliterative
[13:31]	:	why is Jon on a platter? and can we sit on him?
[13:31]	:	I was looking at the Viewer 2.0 help to-do list, wow, that's a lot of stuff. So that's one of our focuses right now. Pretty much anything having to do with Second Life written/illustrated help passes through Doc Team at one point or another.
[13:31]	:	jeremy did that
[13:31]	:	to give us a idea he was here during the meetings
[13:31]	:	lol
[13:31]	:	•:*¨ Eh hehehehe haha! ¨*:•
[13:31]	:	funny idea tho
[13:31]	:	There are also other Lindens who do documentation as part of the engineering dept. and such, so there's a certain amount of overlap.
[13:31]	:	but it seems that people that have in glimmer of talent at anything seem to stick around in SL
[13:31]	:	That's more internal than public, tho.
[13:32]	:	who does the actual writing of the wiki?
[13:32]	:	Bronson, I like when people didn't know they had artistic or creative skills and they take some time to explore. Photos are a very good example. Photos are so fun!
[13:32]	:	oh, especially if you know how to take advantage of the depth mask
[13:32]	:	yeah thats how I really started finding my talent
[13:32]	:	noticed btw a SL lawyer is watching my twitter
[13:32]	:	pics
[13:32]	:	kinda funny thing 2
[13:32]	:	then building
[13:32]	:	ChatBrat, Wiki is collaborative, so... anyone who wants to contribute. For Knowledge Base articles, mainly Doc Team (I write a lot of them and do all the videos) and Residents who take action!
[13:33]	:	you can use the depth masks with photoshop and the captured images in SL to provide some depth of field.
[13:33]	:	thanks Torley
[13:33]	:	I've not seen much advertising since those old, old ads from what, 2005?
[13:33]	:	The split face one
[13:33]	:	Cisop, we have on some fronts. I used to be more involved in that but I know our marketing folks were designing new ad banners lately, I don't know if they're up somewhere.
[13:33]	:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/34963
[13:34]	:	For a time we didn't find standard banner ads effective, they were shown but didn't lead to a lot of new signups, so they'd have to be targeted and relevant.
[13:34]	:	think LL likes to get their new office in amsterdam done first
[13:34]	:	I never saw advertising... I came to SL from reading "User Friendly", the comic strip
[13:34]	:	then start again with advertising
[13:34]	:	lol what about a commercial? like what WOW did once
[13:34]	:	my idea tho
[13:34]	:	Some of the parody ads people have created for us have been a hoot, tho.
[13:34]	:	how do you feel about all the third party viewers? do you recommend using any?
[13:34]	:	Youri, how do you know about Amsterdam? Hehe.
[13:34]	:	I've already got some of my own advertising I plan on doing.
[13:34]	:	lol, i know for more thena month :)
[13:35]	:	It's not a secret any more, Torley
[13:35]	:	ChatBrat, I think it's great to have choices and better, specialized solutions where the official Viewer may be slower to update. We, as a policy, don't recommend/endorse any.
[13:35]	:	i know when M was in Amsterdam even
[13:35]	:	I think it's some of them have implemented my longtime wishes like a Worn tab, or direct access to teleporting, or adding my WindLight skies. :)
[13:35]	:	September 27th, 2009 by Youri Ashton
[13:35]	:	thats the date of the blog i posted :p
[13:36]	:	I'm concerned about the invasion of privacy by some viewers. Will LL ever come down on that?
[13:36]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Alternate_viewers #Third-party_Viewers
[13:36]	:	you should visit my blog more often :p
[13:37]	:	Some others have said this, and there's much truth... that specialized viewers will become more prevalent because having something custom-tailored for your profession or workflow is incredibly useful. Casual shoppers will want better integration with Xstreet, builders want their tools to be more sensibly arranged, and soforth.
[13:37]	:	The topic of alternate viewers is one of the most popular Wiki traffic terms, and continues to grow, so it's quite relevant!
[13:37]	:	Just curious... are viewers already supporting the 64-bits OS's (official and alternative)? Either Windows or MacOS?
[13:38]	:	I mean, are there respective versions?
[13:38]	:	emerald viewer seems to be on the nomine list for being banned. due to it being a great platform for griefers
[13:38]	:	atleast... thats what i been hearing
[13:38]	:	Niky, the Viewer should run OK on a 64-bit OS but we don't have a specially optimized version. Last I heard, that's not trivial.
[13:38]	:	I don't see that emeral itself is a griefing tool.
[13:38]	:	Is there any way to port skin/shape etc. to open grid servers?
[13:38]	:	Not my realm of expertise but I do know the benefits of extended memory allocation.
[13:38]	:	SL viewer is NOT 64-bit yet
[13:38]	:	while I don't use it myself (I've tested with an alt on a laptop), it's got some GREAT business owner and builder support in it.
[13:39]	:	Mac OS X is 64-bit but I don't think the Viewer takes special advantage of the upward expansion.
[13:39]	:	I really dig the Kirsten viewer for the shadows
[13:39]	:	I only have 32-bit Windows 7 tho.
[13:39]	:	and it has the http get
[13:39]	:	64bit vista for me
[13:39]	:	same here
[13:39]	:	The Kirsten viewer was innovative in exposing the shadows more, as well as other WindLight stuff that had been hidden before launch.
[13:39]	:	For example, the post-process nightvision goggles.
[13:39]	:	lol
[13:39]	 	wishes for Shadows on the Mac
[13:39]	:	yeah
[13:39]	:	lol
[13:39]	:	ugh.... some customers need me in person. have a great day, everyone! bye
[13:40]	:	Have fun, Aargle!
[13:40]	:	post process looks good in it
[13:40]	:	Me too, Mari, and overall, better performance. Sad as I am to say that SL on Mac doesn't perform nearly as well on the *same* machine as it does under Boot Camp.
[13:40]	:	bye aar
[13:40]	:	Take care Aargyle!
[13:40]	:	It might be time to regulate third party viewers.
[13:40]	:	later
[13:40]	:	still wish for the return of dynamic reflections :/
[13:40]	:	So ChatBrat, if you'll see our policy there, we're planning for more structure with the 3rd-Party Viewer Registry.
[13:40]	:	I thought there were only thrid party modifications?
[13:40]	:	i just hope LL will add in support for 64bit systems
[13:41]	:	Bronson, that was sooo much fun. It was an experiment by Runitai Linden.
[13:41]	 	is still looking for a mirror that shows my reflection in SL. Feeling like a vampire.
[13:41]	:	Thank you for that Torley.
[13:41]	:	In theory, 64 bits should be faster, as it would run things in less cycles of processor
[13:41]	:	hi Ella ㋡
[13:41]	:	Cisop, heh, the hacky workaround is to rotate yourself and look into the water, and change water settings to be placid and clear.
[13:41]	:	Cisop - ya, I wish dynamic reflections hadn't been nerfed
[13:41]	:	yeah I saw some pics of it
[13:41]	:	looked great
[13:41]	:	As always, we can't support what's in Advanced menu.
[13:41]	:	I know of someone with such a mirror, but you only neeed a snapshot, to show you aren't a vampire
[13:41]	:	I mean the instructions to the processor would take less cycles to run.
[13:41]	:	Advanced menu is really OMG THIS MAY BE USEFUL BUT... IF WE SCRAP IT, DON'T CRY!
[13:42]	 	nods
[13:42]	:	niky: besides that, 64bit isnt running efficiently atm, and thus taking on more lag then 32bit systems
[13:42]	:	I will cry if advanced menu functions go
[13:42]	:	Hey!
[13:42]	:	Hey!
[13:42]	:	hey cod
[13:42]	:	At least I can stil max out the draw, improve the LOD on trees, and make 'em move again
[13:42]	:	Hey!
[13:42]	:	I'm curious to hear if anyone has any great gains with the forthcoming i9 + Radeon 5870. I may get one once prices drop, who knows!
[13:42]	:	Yo dude!
[13:42]	:	I'll cry if the shadows go'
[13:43]	:	Many shop owners have notecared givers that tell how to fix the LOD issues.
[13:43]	:	This is why it's always important to set expectations, it's neat to try out various features but, until they're officially "stable", we can't guarantee their prolonged existence.
[13:43]	:	I love how they look, but right now shadows are academic to me.
[13:43]	:	And that is either PC or Mac platform? Is Intel processor thing?
[13:43]	:	@Youri
[13:43]	:	advanced menu is gone for 2.0?? OMG
[13:43]	:	niky: yes
[13:43]	:	I don't know more about where those graphics features are, but Pastrami Linden is leading that project and Runitai Linden continues to be involved, last I heard.
[13:43]	:	Why is everyone sitting on my shoulders? :<
[13:43]	:	Youri, NO ONE said that. :)
[13:44]	:	well its true torley :)
[13:44]	:	It's not just shadows, it's the whole... global illumination, meshes... lots of gorgeous aesthetic stuff planned for the future.
[13:44]	:	dont have to be a well educated person to figure that one out :p
[13:44]	:	Ya. All of which probably won't work on a 1 year old computer
[13:44]	:	just hope the advanced menu stays
[13:44]	:	Youri, actually, you'd have to be, not to buy into empty substantiation! ;)
[13:44]	:	Of course we'd want it to be cross-platform, just like the issues with voice chat.
[13:44]	:	I got into SL right before windlight
[13:45]	:	what a jump in quality
[13:45]	:	OR, be used in another way so we still can kick out the away for example
[13:45]	:	The current water reflections and shadows are taxing, even on a higher-end GeForce 8xxx.
[13:45]	:	is annoying to get on away, and when you get back, your av is logged out
[13:45]	:	Heh... they hadda practically drag the Windlight beta from my hands to get it
[13:45]	:	WindLight will always be one of my special memories.
[13:45]	:	when I started SL I had a crappy fx 5200
[13:46]	:	4 fps
[13:46]	:	max
[13:46]	:	lol
[13:46]	:	since 1.23.3 came, i was not able to use windlight
[13:46]	:	I remember getting a phone call, "Hey, Asi (Pastrami Linden) wants to speak to you..." I was like, "Ozzy?"
[13:46]	:	Hi, Top
[13:46]	:	When I staered, I was on a Mac 6500/300 that was way below SL inimum requirements
[13:46]	:	lol
[13:46]	:	OpenGL vertex buffer objects as its called is messed up in the SL viewer
[13:46]	:	Holy moly, I remember that generation, Mari!
[13:46]	:	I can use Windlight in the MacBook, but temperature rises to the 80C
[13:47]	:	Started on a laptop with a gforce 7000 sercies.
[13:47]	:	With all shaders thing on
[13:47]	:	Greetings everyone
[13:47]	:	Youri, I find it causes stutters but overall higher framerate. What issues are you having?
[13:47]	:	Friendly greetings topolina!
[13:47]	:	Graphics card gains are looking huge though, those Radeon 5870 and 5850 look like they'll deliver a lot of power at that price. I remember when top-end graphics cards were like, $600. Now, more like $300-400.
[13:47]	:	well, when i have that option enabled in SL, it shows very weird things on my screen and makes me even get blue screens of death
[13:47]	:	HOWEVER
[13:47]	:	Ya, that was a crazy thing to try an be here on, even then. Nowadays my 2008-era iMac probably never going to have SL shadows, if Macs ever get them at all
[13:48]	:	I am havinbg big time issues
[13:48]	:	i been going to Open Life recently, with their viewer
[13:48]	:	NO PROBLEM AT ALL
[13:48]	:	yeah I scored my 8800 ultra rather cheap
[13:48]	:	so it is SL and not my pc :)
[13:48]	 	tracks down annoying background sound. "There is a plance stuck up in the tower next to us."
[13:48]	:	as well as the gtx260 on the other computer
[13:48]	:	3780X2
[13:49]	:	Hey Mari, what graphics card does your iMac have?
[13:49]	:	what is this pace ?
[13:49]	:	none of the bug triage lindens actually believes me
[13:49]	 	shouts: PLANE GOT RETURNED YO
[13:49]	:	Where' the pages on the more dismal billing policies
[13:49]	:	ATI just banned me from their email servers for finding out and keep asking for a fix
[13:49]	 	not appear to be for sale.
[13:49]	:	Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO OpenGL Engine
[13:50]	:	ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2
[13:50]	 	wonders if the HD 2600 has shadows on Windows? I don't know enough about that.
[13:50]	:	Yes, it does.
[13:51]	:	Who's best? Nvidia or ATI? Today's Mac offer both options...
[13:51]	:	chaucer sign above couch come chat with us is where your at
[13:51]	:	When I heard the 2600 did 'em, I was pretty happy...
[13:51]	:	depends
[13:51]	:	Niky, there aren't a lot of choices for Macs at all. The best you can get for a Mac Pro is a GTX 285 at an exorbitant price.
[13:51]	:	just find it werid, on the game called 'Crisis' I can pretty much put everything on maximum (untill i reach the alien ship), and SL i need to put basicly everythign on minimum :p
[13:51]	:	just doesnt make sense :p
[13:51]	:	On Windows right now, and this is bound to change soon, nothing beats the ATI Radeon 5870 (or multiples of them in SLI and soforth).
[13:52]	:	SLI rocks
[13:52]	:	is this a discussion forum ?
[13:52]	:	wb tech
[13:52]	:	Chaucer, sorta! It's our open chat session! Hosted by Documentation Team, we do Second Life help, tips & tricks, and so on.
[13:52]	:	Thanks for spotting the plane, Techwolf.
[13:52]	:	If you have any questions and/or concerns, feel free to ask, Chaucer.
[13:52]	:	Welcome to Documentation Office Hour, Chaucer. Speak,m Ask, or look smart
[13:52]	:	okay then what is the maximum FPS you can get on SL ?
[13:53]	:	heheh, I was doing work on my bench here and that sound was starting to get on my nerves.
[13:53]	:	There isn't a hard-limit maximum.
[13:53]	:	no surprise there ws a plane, I died three times trying to fly mine earlier today.
[13:53]	:	I get about 56
[13:53]	:	Client Side or Server Side? I'v heard a client side as low as 1FPS
[13:53]	:	I"ve gotten 120+ during tests.
[13:53]	:	to 78
[13:53]	:	Elisha - it can be tricky, but there are some good spots out there for flying
[13:53]	:	but with shadows it drops to about 20
[13:53]	:	sim FPS in SL should be around 45 to be 'normal'
[13:53]	:	how 120+
[13:54]	:	And have the clietn screamming for mercy when It was .1 fps, that right POINT one frames per second.
[13:54]	:	Been beta testing Cubey's next generation parachute, so I can also attest to their being good places to fall
[13:54]	:	also depends how busy the scene is
[13:54]	:	Crazy high framerates are usually NOT representative or fair, since they aren't done in typical scenes.
[13:54]	:	yes but whena GRID is at max the FPS drop down below 10 ?
[13:54]	:	plus the human eye cant register much over 60 anyway
[13:54]	:	A healthy framerate is generally 15 or above. Below that and the experience degrades into slide show heck!
[13:54]	:	yeah it does
[13:55]	:	chaucer, create new acount, log in and go to "CrashMe" or similer primless sim with snowglobe.
[13:55]	:	Ya, back in my 6500/300 days, 4fps was a good day. Yet somehow I stuck with SL!
[13:55]	:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Limits <- Second Life numerical and other limits.
[13:55]	:	On Aditi, right Techwolf!
[13:55]	:	4FPS is my normal
[13:55]	:	omg
[13:55]	:	chaucer: if it does that, try to restart the sim. if that doesnt solve it, make sure you check out the scripts in the sim and disable them, or when possible return those items
[13:55]	:	Wow Mari. I remember hearing from some amazing builders that they were on really crap hardware and still managed to make beautiful things. I thought, "If they got new computers, they'd FLY!" Well, beyond how we can already fly.
[13:56]	:	I think there should be an ASCII viewer for the computer impaired.... --> me lol
[13:56]	:	my fps just dropped to 2 O.o
[13:56]	:	fps for me currently is around 19
[13:56]	:	My first computer to run SL had a GeForce Ti4200. Pentium 2.4 GHz. My first Windows PC after I abandoned Macs for awhile, actually.
[13:56]	:	for sim fps its now around 41
[13:56]	:	Would be nice if we could take multiple prims, glue them together and make them count as 1 prim.
[13:56]	:	fps 11 here and no moves around...
[13:56]	:	Ya, my first year or so on SL was on that computer. Which surprises even me when I look back at the photos I managed way back when
[13:57]	:	Cisop, you can sorta do that with some tools that register inworld prim dimensions and communicate with the outside to export a sculpt map, which you can bring in as a sculptie.
[13:57]	:	Eventually we'll have meshes which should look far slicker. (They already do, in our internal tests.)
[13:57]	:	Mari, I remember discovering antialiasing, I was so tickled.
[13:58]	:	when you say meshes... what are you talking about... the AV mesh?
[13:58]	:	Oh ya.
[13:58]	 	is looking forward to that.
[13:58]	:	what tool does that Torley? the exporting sculpty thin?
[13:58]	:	i turned off that torley
[13:58]	:	takes to much
[13:58]	:	Same word, Bronson, but specifically referring to the successor of sculpties: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh
[13:58]	:	Meshes will change a lot. Not just what is made, but the whole look of SL. More thansculpts have
[13:58]	:	There is this one avatar that looked horriable but it was popular. I though the avatar maker was worthless. That is untill one day was on min. graphics setting for some testing and bumped into someone using that avatar and it look good at min, but horriable at max graphics settings.
[13:58]	:	are these any areas in SL which support nVidia 3D vision ?
[13:58]	:	giving that a gander
[13:58]	:	ChatBrat, I forget who makes that. Maybe search http://xstreet.com or ask on SL Answers?
[13:58]	:	everything under hardware options is turned off on my side
[13:58]	:	will do
[13:59]	:	oh yeah that video
[13:59]	:	:))
[13:59]	:	Very intriguing, Techwolf. I'd like to see that. I used to call some eyeglasses "hexagon goggles" then I realized my object detail was low.
[13:59]	:	lol
[13:59]	:	When I was new, I was clueless there was even a Shiny checkbox.
[14:00]	:	People kept pointing out to me, "That avatar is shiny!" and all I saw was a matte white robot thing.
[14:00]	:	ONe of the werewolf avatars, forgot what creater it was, either hydrogen or maken...
[14:00]	:	yeah I looked all over SL for that shiney texture
[14:00]	:	hexagon goggles, hmm... well, i think that should look nicely as well :p
[14:00]	:	Not wanting to sound dumb, I played along.
[14:00]	:	Ya, I had to keep shiny off in order to walk about!
[14:00]	:	Antialiasing is one of the best subtle improvements to overall quality.
[14:00]	:	Don't evey take a walk in Zindra wiht glow on.
[14:00]	:	bye all
[14:00]	:	every=ever
[14:00]	:	and laggy torley :p
[14:00]	:	I have to take off also.
[14:00]	:	bye heme
[14:00]	:	Nice seeing you
[14:00]	:	Basically it draws the scene at multiples of itself (dropping framerate) but it looks smoother. It's common in most AAA games.
[14:01]	:	bye bye kate :)
[14:01]	:	anyways
[14:01]	:	1 last thing
[14:01]	:	Thanx each & all for coming to our office hour today!
[14:01]	:	I'll save this transcript and put it up with the others...
[14:01]	:	i been hearing the mentor group will be gone soon
[14:01]	:	whats up with that?
[14:01]	:	Oh neat, Google shows Wiki breadcrumbs.
[14:01]	:	Youri - Yes, Dec 11 is the end
[14:01]	:	Youri, read http://blogs.secondlife.com — news on there from Lexie.
[14:01]	:	MAy I ask a question ?
[14:01]	:	Beginning of one error, start of another.
[14:01]	:	Would be nice it there was an SL museum, with inworld pics since its beginning... I joined on 2007-Jan... pretty sure I missed some fun times that happened during its 3 years prior...
[14:01]	:	I've tested my system at 0x, 4x, and 8x ASAA. No framerate change for any of them. So I keep it at 8x cause it look a lot nicer with it on.
[14:02]	:	Er, I mean, ERA.
[14:02]	:	That was sooo not Freudian. XD
[14:02]	:	Please do, Chaucer!
[14:02]	:	https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/volunteers/blog/2009/11/18/volunteering-in-second-life-now-and-in-the-future?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LindenLabALL+%28Official+Second+Life+Blog+-+ALL+POSTS%29
[14:02]	:	Techwolf, powerful system, then!
[14:02]	:	We should have a Linden Street Build, from 2002
[14:02]	:	Bye Bye!!
[14:02]	:	Okay are there any regions in SL which has support for nVidia 3d Vision or similar ?
[14:02]	:	bye mari :)
[14:02]	:	LOL @ error Torley
[14:02]	:	Niky, there've been museums over time. I guess a lot of the visual history is documented on the web.
[14:02]	:	Sorry, I don't know Chaucer, intriguing question, maybe a good one to ask on SL Answers!
[14:02]	:	Nvida all the way baby. :-)
[14:03]	:	nvidia seems to be best indeed :p
[14:03]	:	aka https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers
[14:03]	:	OK I'm going now. Take care each & all, have a lovely Second Life!
 
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Category:Documentation Office Hours