Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-03-18

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on March 18th, 2010
= Agenda =
* Discuss resolution of previous open items.
* Updates
** 1.38.0 is being tested.
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.38
** Thou must not fail critical objects
*** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Aditi/ThouMustNotFail
** Havok 7 testing is on the calendar (scheduled for Server 1.40, that could mean May)
* Releases
* Any other business
** unable to delete items inside no mod objects... on roadmap to be fixed? - 
= Resolved Items =
= Meeting Minutes =
* We talked about 1.38 testing status and the release schedule.
* We talked about any new issues in 1.38.
* There wasn't a lot to talk about today so we just chatted about issues and concerns.
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for March 18th, 2010:
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: hello everyone
* [15:01] Eddi Decosta: the text client have no reperts when i need to move its complicated lol
* [15:01] Memorial Dae: Greetings
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: so let's get this show on the road
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: agenda here
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: put anything in ther eyou want talked about
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: uhm, I don't have a whole lot today to be honest
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: oh wow... it's ambroff
* [15:02] Ambroff Linden: howdy!
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: sup man?
* [15:03] Ambroff Linden: I have no idea why I'm wearing this :)
* [15:03] Memorial Dae: Thats mroe like it
* [15:03] Eddi Decosta: hi Maestro 
* [15:03] Eddi Decosta: hello Lil 
* [15:03] Maestro Linden: hello
* [15:03] Lil Linden: howdy
* [15:03] Psi Merlin: Hi Ambroff
* [15:03] Ambroff Linden: Hi!
* [15:03] Eddi Decosta: whats up Drew? 
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: that's the ambroff I know and love
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: so yeah
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: 1.38 testing is going well
* [15:05] Lil Linden: \o/
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: soo.. are there any new bugs in 1.38 that didn't make it to jira? :)
* [15:05] Memorial Dae: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'Yaaayyyy!!!:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: that's what we really need to know
* [15:05] Maestro Linden: we have 0 new bugs now, which makes me a bit nervous :)
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: if 1.38 and scripts and stuff is all looking good then we're gonna move to deploy testing
* [15:06] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I was looking over the new LSL fuctions earler today and notic esome of them use link set child prim numbers, my question is will child prim numbers ever change on rezzing/resell?
* [15:06] Drew Dwi: will 1.38 have the script info (client side) enabled on angi?
* [15:07] Maestro Linden: they should only change if you relink the object, atechwolf
* [15:07] Latif Khalifa: at, oly on relinking
* [15:07] Latif Khalifa: hello peeps
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: Drew, script info will be on agni
* [15:07] Maestro Linden: and as always, when an avatar sits on the object, they become the next link in the object
* [15:07] Drew Dwi: think I just bumped into a bug on that *tinkers*
* [15:08] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Ok. Playing with my patch that been merged in 2.0, I notice the link set sequence seems to be radom.
* [15:09] Memorial Dae: Pardon?
* [15:09] Maestro Linden: so if you rez an object with multiple prims, the link numbers sometimes change?
* [15:10] Maestro Linden: (that would be.. bad)
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: you can repro that atechwolf?
* [15:11] Memorial Dae: has flashbacks to 1.8
* [15:11] Ardy Lay: Is it the simulator's opinion that's changes or the viewer's?
* [15:11] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Select next part, select previous part, include next part, include previous part. Seeing the link order in link prims by using that new feature. I don't think there is real order to it. When I start selecting prims, they go in order as I expect it, then have one prim out of order. But the order does not change. Don't panic. I was just making an oversation.
* [15:11] Eddi Decosta: Hi Kyle 
* [15:11] Kyle Linden: Hello
* [15:12] Eddi Decosta: gave you Radegast (Test).
* [15:12] Maestro Linden: oh, you just mean when you initially link prims together?
* [15:12] Eddi Decosta: hello Chaley 
* [15:13] Eddi Decosta: Hi psi 
* [15:13] ATechwolf Foxclaw: yea, I think the link command is putting prims in random, but fixed, order.
* [15:13] Chaley May: hi Eddi :)
* [15:13] Memorial Dae: Ah ok
* [15:13] Psi Merlin: Hi Eddi
* [15:14] ATechwolf Foxclaw: So when I reading up on the new LSL FAST stuff, I wanted to make sure that order never changed due one major product in SL will be using that in there next upgrade.
* [15:15] Maestro Linden: one thing you can do (which I found to be useful for the 1-script kart)
* [15:15] Maestro Linden: is to name prims by function
* [15:15] Maestro Linden: like "left front tire"
* [15:15] Latif Khalifa: yeah i always use link names
* [15:15] Melfina Marshdevil: Hey everyone :P
* [15:15] Maestro Linden: and then have the script scan the names of all the prims, and determine the link #s that way (but I only run that in state_entry or something)
* [15:15] ATechwolf Foxclaw: That is allready done to allow customer to mod there avatar and still have the HUD work properlly to change colors.
* [15:16] Psi Merlin: Nods: When I want to reference prims I name them and scan at the start of the script - makes it easy to change or link new ones.
* [15:16] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Good. At least there is a way to get link to prim name at rez. :-)
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: alright then :-)
* [15:17] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Sorry for taking up time. I just wanted to make sure of a coupld conserns.
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: np
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: anyone else seeing anything in 1.38 that they haven't reported yet?
* [15:18] Drew Dwi: nothing new directly to 1.38
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: awesome
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: so our plan now is to do some internal deploy testing next week
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: that involves us setting a dev grid to match agni
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: then testing the upgrade path piece by piece to see if there are any deploy issues
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: once that passes we are going to try to do an early pilot deploy
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: our pilot deploys are now running about 20% of the grid
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: + linden regions and anyone who wants into the pilot
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: if you have a region and want it on the pilot add it here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Agni_Pilot_Regions
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: I'll be sure to communicate in the proper channels when that time comes
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: by next week I hope to have more to report about getting havok 7 testing regions up
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: I really don't have much to go over this week
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: you guys have all helped so much with the 1.38 testing. it's gone quite well
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: maestro, lil, simon, ambroff, kyle, you guys got anything you want to talk about?
* [15:23] Maestro Linden: nope, nothing from me
* [15:23] Simon Linden: nope, just lurking :)
* [15:23] Ambroff Linden: same here
* [15:24] Kyle Linden: Lurking :)
* [15:24] Maestro Linden: oh, I did document the resizer script I mentioned last week https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linkset_resizer
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:24] Memorial Dae: Im going to lurk to the brekroom and get a juice
* [15:24] Psi Merlin: The big test will start with the agni pilot when we get the normal loading on the sims to stress the mono fixes.
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: lurks with his shoes off and feet on the desk
* [15:24] Maestro Linden: yeah that's very true, Psi
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: that's true Psi
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: I'm eager to get it in early
* [15:25] Drew Dwi: are any of the pilot regions
* [15:25] Eddi Decosta: i keep the link thanks Maestro 
* [15:25] Drew Dwi: normally under stress?
* [15:25] Drew Dwi: and are they looked at to see how the new version is doing before proceeding on?
* [15:25] Drew Dwi: ie, compared preformance wise to the old version
* [15:26] Psi Merlin: Snark takes quite a big load from avatar attachments - which I'm hoping will be helped as many use common scripts.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: yes Drew
* [15:26] Maestro Linden: actually yeah, we do keep metrics like that. So it's pretty easy to see performance changes across the grid
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: we have some metrics to track
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: we also monitor jira
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: and wait for resident feedback
* [15:26] Memorial Dae: PSG was thinking of actually proposing Hyboria sandbox sim to get some heavy data since it seems to be a problem child.
* [15:26] Psi Merlin: I also have detailes records from some of Moon's reporting tools for number and length of sim freezes
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: cool
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: that will help psi
* [15:27] Eddi Decosta: sim freez or viewer freez?
* [15:27] Psi Merlin: Sim freeze
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: we can add hyboria
* [15:27] Eddi Decosta: okey 
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: lil. can you make sure that gets on our list
* [15:28] Eddi Decosta: Psi can you said me the jira #, please im curious to see 
* [15:29] Eddi Decosta: if i can have some controled crash after test, im happy :p
* [15:29] Psi Merlin: Gently reminds Lil to check Snark is included in the pilot having got missed last time around.
* [15:29] Lil Linden: reads backscroll
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: ok so hyboria and snark
* [15:30] Simon Linden: fwiw I've been working on TP arrivals and attachment processing, along with object region crossings. Hopefully that can get into 1.40. It's a different lag issue than the mono scripts, however
* [15:31] Eddi Decosta: lag? 
* [15:31] Lil Linden: it should be included, don't worry psi :)
* [15:31] Simon Linden: yeah, the 'stop everything while I process this massive AV' problem
* [15:31] Psi Merlin: Give me a call on agni Eddie I can show you the data and how it's collected
* [15:31] Eddi Decosta: hehe, yeah i know some lag when i try this 
* [15:32] Eddi Decosta: Okey psi thanks 
* [15:32] Drew Dwi: the stop everything while this avatar loads is a huge thing Simon, that'll be great if it makes it into 1.40
* [15:32] Drew Dwi: especially for high load sims
* [15:32] Eddi Decosta: Psi, i need the viewer 2.0 or not? :p
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: the nice thing about is getting through 1.38 quicker than average is that we can work to get a lot into 1.40 from a merge queue point of view
* [15:33] Latif Khalifa: is havok7 still sheduled for 40?
* [15:33] Psi Merlin: No special viewer required
* [15:33] Eddi Decosta: ok, Psi 
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: Latif: yeah, havok7 will be the big new feature in 1.40
* [15:34] Latif Khalifa: cool
* [15:34] Eddi Decosta: oh nice to hear 
* [15:34] Latif Khalifa: less memory usage, better performance ftw!
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: well, biggest change at least. I guess physics as a feature isn't new :)
* [15:35] Eddi Decosta: about movement of vehicle?
* [15:35] Latif Khalifa: any other goodies in the 1.40 queue?
* [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: Can SVC-421 get injected into 1.40 :P
* [15:35] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-421: 
* [#SVC-421] delete contents: from no-modify objects
* [15:35] ATechwolf Foxclaw: A lot of rollor coasters was broken with the havok4 upgrade.
* [15:35] Latif Khalifa: still trying to bribe Kelly into brinig LINK_NAME and LINK_DESC ;)
* [15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: ohhh that would be cool.
* [15:35] Eddi Decosta: well, for the memory limite, i hope all my hud are not affected 
* [15:36] Eddi Decosta: memory script limites* sorry
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: limits. you french like your extra e's :-)
* [15:37] Latif Khalifa: haha
* [15:37] Eddi Decosta: geezx
* [15:37] Eddi Decosta: geez*
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: anything else?
* [15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: mmm yes.
* [15:37] Latif Khalifa: they put a lot of unneccesary X's at the end of the words too :)
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: yes melfina
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: Any clue whats going on with SVC-421
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: seriously.
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: its been bugging me badly
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: what bugs you about it?
* [15:38] Oskar Linden: there are some heated words on both sides of that
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: that its a unfixed bug for 2 years
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: its still a bug from what ive seen in other linden comments
* [15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: it should be allowed.
* [15:39] Drew Dwi: not really
* [15:39] Drew Dwi: there's only 1 heated set of words from one side
* [15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: also the viewer expects that behavior
* [15:39] Drew Dwi: and that set of heat tends to flame many issues :P
* [15:39] ATechwolf Foxclaw: looks up 422
* [15:39] Chaley May: while i would like to delete somescripts from no modify objects i think there should be something new to make it possible to lock a script in place too
* [15:39] ATechwolf Foxclaw: 1
* [15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: well when script limits comes out it would be nice to remove resizers scripts.
* [15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: some people dont leave the function in and left SL
* [15:40] Chaley May: i have wanted to delete a lot of scripts from a few items now i can see the memory they use
* [15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: which means forever broken content
* [15:41] Eddi Decosta: just my AO make; (1567 Byte).
* [15:42] Melfina Marshdevil: btw I found this comment
* [15:42] Melfina Marshdevil: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-56?focusedCommentId=11699&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#action_11699
* [15:42] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#MISC-56|JIRA-helper: [#MISC-56]]: 
* [15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: which seriously makes me believe that the jira I mentioned is a bug.
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I don't know enough about svc-421 to comment authoritatively
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: maestro? simon?
* [15:43] Drew Dwi: that comment is insightful but old
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: I'd ask kelly if he were here. But he's out today
* [15:43] Drew Dwi: Kelly might be the right person to comment
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: well i dunno if you all could bring it up internally if possible.
* [15:44] Drew Dwi: or can copy and paste the old comment in ^^
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: it would be really helpful to know what could happen
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: it's up internally melfina :-)
* [15:44] Melfina Marshdevil: thankies oskar :3
* [15:44] Simon Linden: I don't know about svc-421 ... unfortunately I try to block out permissions issues because I've broken that system a few times
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:45] Oskar Linden: there is a USB device on Simons desk that slaps his hand when he touches permissions code
* [15:45] Melfina Marshdevil: :P
* [15:45] Drew Dwi: lol
* [15:45] Memorial Dae: ...does it also double as a cup warmer?
* [15:45] Simon Linden: I'm not sure why we're allowing you to delete something from a no-mod object, however, so I doin't really understand it
* [15:46] Drew Dwi: because the object is no mod, not the contents
* [15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: well you use to be able too.
* [15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: and the viewer still allows it
* [15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: its a server side error message
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: we're not allowing people to delete scripts from no mod objects now
* [15:46] Eddi Decosta: hmmm, the login are disable on agni or its me?
* [15:46] Oskar Linden: seems to be
* [15:46] Memorial Dae: That was when the permissions system was in flux and changing to address issues brought up by content creators
* [15:46] Chaley May: although the content creators put the content inside it because it must be important :)
* [15:46] Drew Dwi: "However, at the same time the owner has the right to dissasembly. They can pull contents out of the object. A real life analogy may be buying a DVD player. After you buy it, you are free to take a screwdriver or hammer or saw and tear the player apart. It may no longer work, and you may not be able to put it back together, but you can surely do it. In SL contents can be pulled out but not put back."
* [15:46] Drew Dwi: is the logic
* [15:46] RedMokum Bravin: And it's nice to be able to delete the rogue version of candlescript.lsl which deletes your object from this world if someone says "blow" in its neighbourhood.
* [15:47] Eddi Decosta: aw, to long for login lol sorry 
* [15:47] Simon Linden: yeah, there's something going on with the system now, I'm not sure what
* [15:47] Chaley May: letting people remove/delete is not a good idea but i still want some scripts taken out of things i buy :)
* [15:47] Lil Linden: the inventory databases are heating up
* [15:47] Melfina Marshdevil: well at least being able to repair my own content so script limits dont kill it.
* [15:47] Drew Dwi: got some people saying they can't login btw
* [15:47] Melfina Marshdevil: thats what I look forward too.
* [15:47] Drew Dwi: to angi
* [15:48] Simon Linden: yes, our operations folks are getting busy
* [15:48] Lil Linden: awww yea they are :)
* [15:48] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I thoiugh they just fixed that. re:inventory/assesst issues.
* [15:48] Lil Linden: it's a recurring issue
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: this was different
* [15:48] Melfina Marshdevil: I wonder what happened this time :P
* [15:48] Melfina Marshdevil: mysql died? xD
* [15:48] Eddi Decosta: geez
* [15:48] Drew Dwi: gotta stop tripping over that power wire
* [15:48] Oskar Linden: had to do with cached network addresses or something
* [15:48] Memorial Dae: dns
* [15:49] Chaley May: having scripts uindeletable does make it possible for temporary demos so people can take home and try things.. if anyone does do this they will probably end up giving out everything they own for free
* [15:49] Chaley May: with a fix
* [15:49] Melfina Marshdevil: I can rez demos in no script areas
* [15:49] Eddi Decosta: 
* [15:49] Puzzle Box: Playing Level 6
* [15:50] Melfina Marshdevil: honestly the issues they describe that could happen all can be avoided with some clever scripting work
* [15:50] Chaley May: good point.. but then noone wants to stay in no script for long :)
* [15:51] Melfina Marshdevil: well it will be interesting to see a resolution to it
* [15:51] Melfina Marshdevil: either way I want to see what happens now :P
* [15:51] Melfina Marshdevil: anyhoo vote for it if you want to support it :D
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: any other topics?
* [15:52] Melfina Marshdevil: Not really except for my other long standing issue but you havent said anything so I wont bring it up
* [15:53] Puzzle Box: Playing Level 6
* [15:53] Memorial Dae: Oh wait, nvm I have to get with Blondin about that
* [15:53] Melfina Marshdevil: I figured you still havent worked out something with the idea ^^
* [15:53] Drew Dwi: land buying on aditi? :)
* [15:53] Chaley May: better be quick blondins going to hawaii
* [15:53] Memorial Dae: I will jsut forward the info to Jane
* [15:54] ATechwolf Foxclaw: yes, can we buy land here? I keep getting an error everytime I did that. That was awhile back.
* [15:54] Drew Dwi: still broken unless something changed within last 72h
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: to get land buying to work you need a helperuri
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: maestro, remind me what it is please :-)
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: oh yeah, there's a website dependency to land buying, and we lost our aditi sandbox for it
* [15:54] Maestro Linden: needs to check his logs to see it
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: oh, did we lose it entirely
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: --helperuri https://secondlife.univac34.lindenlab.com/helpers/
* [15:55] Melfina Marshdevil: so that work o.o
* [15:55] Melfina Marshdevil: works*
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: oh wait, it won't
* [15:55] Memorial Dae: This webpage is not available.
* [15:55] Drew Dwi: no, it times out
* [15:56] Ambroff Linden: yeah sorry guys, that's my secondlife.com sandbox on our internal network
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: sorry about that.
* [15:56] Ambroff Linden: you wouldn't be able to reach that
* [15:56] Drew Dwi: such teases :P
* [15:56] Opensource Obscure: oskar, did you get a message from Gebedia Yoshikawa to copy LOL region to Aditi?
* [15:56] Opensource Obscure: he's the region owner
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: I think I did OO
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: finally
* [15:57] Melfina Marshdevil: crickets chriping
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: it's about closing time for this meeting anyway :-)
* [15:58] Opensource Obscure: cool - my installation uses both resizing and physics, so i'm looking forward to testing them
* [15:58] Drew Dwi: so is there any plan to get land buying working or it is a lost cause for aditi?
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: it's not a lost cause
* [15:58] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Due to that problem, I cna't abanded land and rebuy it.
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: I just need to push harder to get it worked out sooner
* [15:59] RedMokum Bravin: Ash Qin still wants Deshima added to the deployment grid. His ticket was answered with "we might or we might not"
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: to aditi, you mean?
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: who is ash qin?
* [16:00] RedMokum Bravin: Administrator of the Alteran Stargate Network
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: what is the deployment grid redmokum?
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: tell him/her to IM me on AGNI
* [16:01] RedMokum Bravin: Telling him that now. :-)
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: cool
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: well that's all folks!
* [16:01] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming