Doc Team/2010-05-12

== Transcript ==
[13:03]	:	hey jeremy
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	Hello!
[13:03]	:	HellloJeremy
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	elloo
[13:03]	:	Hiya jeremy
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	hey Jeremy
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:04]	:	How is everyone this week?
[13:04]	:	fine so far
[13:04]	:	doing dandy
[13:04]	:	good here jeremy, how about yourself?
[13:04]	 	has pinged you.
[13:04]	:	Peachy
[13:04]	:	do I hear a "hunky dory?"
[13:04]	:	Pretty good! I had to miss last week because I was at a big technical writer conference in Dallas :-)
[13:05]	:	wasnt here most of last week :p
[13:05]	:	I missed last week because of..... somthing else going on on another grid. Or was that the week before?
[13:05]	:	i been playing guildwars most of the time :p
[13:05]	:	Guild Wars is fun!
[13:05]	:	so all alone this week jeremy?
[13:05]	 	has pinged you.
[13:05]	:	sure is!
[13:05]	:	I dunno! I might be, if Kate or Jon don't show up.
[13:05]	:	working on my assasin
[13:06]	:	that means torley surely wont show?
[13:06]	:	Torley isn't officially on Doc Team anymore. He moved over to a new team that got formed in the Lab :-/
[13:06]	:	omg, to bad to hear him leaving this team
[13:07]	:	/me wonders what a Community Translator is, and what sorts of theings you can Translate a Community into. :D
[13:07]	:	lol
[13:07]	:	its a volunteer team helping LL translate the viewer mostly from english to other langauges
[13:07]	:	Hmm... I imagine that would be translators from the community :-P
[13:07]	:	Torley is off the Office Hours? oO
[13:07]	:	I think he'll still be showing up frequently. He's really busy today, though.
[13:07]	:	I know, I just.... like having goofy fun with language. (giggles)
[13:08]	:	+1!
[13:08]	:	well wish him the best jeremy! we sure will miss him!
[13:08]	 	has pinged you.
[13:08]	:	One of the things that makes it fun being a kid-av: the ability to invoke goofy puns and wacky language-manglings on people. heh
[13:08]	:	so euhm.. what topic did you have for us jeremy?
[13:08]	 	has pinged you.
[13:08]	:	I think that extends to many Lindens as well, Nathan.
[13:09]	:	㋡
[13:09]	:	Topic? Hmm... Has anyone had any interesting experiences (good or bad) with the wiki or help in the viewer lately?
[13:10]	:	viewer 2.0 help, will it be updated to reflect the changes upcoming in 2.0.2
[13:10]	:	Presumably, KristenLee. We're trying our best to stay on top of all the changes coming through!
[13:10]	:	I'm still anxious for the viewer to give more warnings about linking and unlinking. I have too many customers make a hash of everything they own because they think they have to link objects in order to move them as a group
[13:10]	:	havnt been really looking at the wiki lately myself, but i do notice it could be handy to make it easier to navigate
[13:11]	:	a lot of info you can only get by taking very longg routes around
[13:11]	:	so that needs to be taken care of
[13:11]	:	That's a constant problem, Youri. Lately, I've been grouping pages together using navboxes, like this: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Quick_Start_Guide
[13:11]	:	there's some fairly big changes afoot, snapshots
[13:11]	:	for instance
[13:12]	:	for example, looking up my name, you will get all kinds of OH logs but not my actual page
[13:12]	:	neither if you touch my name
[13:12]	:	as just a example
[13:13]	:	Interesting. Is that a result of a Google search on the wiki?
[13:13]	:	When I search for "Youri Ashton", your user page is the first search result.
[13:13]	:	search result on my name: http://www.google.com/cse?cx=004599080153867122396:yq7nhvunuvi&ie=UTF-8&q=youri+ashton&sa=Search
[13:14]	:	same here
[13:14]	:	what it suppost to give: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Youri_Ashton
[13:14]	:	its now in first link i see
[13:14]	:	but it was actually not even listed at all
[13:14]	:	google has been having a few changes lately of its own ^^
[13:14]	:	its the same with lots of other items
[13:14]	:	simple hard to reach or hard to find at all
[13:15]	:	not just profiles on residents
[13:15]	:	What kind of improvements would you like to see in order to improve that experience?
[13:15]	:	So, is the wiki users attached to their SL user account?
[13:15]	:	ugh... I think my sim needs resetting
[13:15]	:	office hours are infact also hard to find, a simple plain page that needs to be linked to main page, not hard to find
[13:15]	:	or is it independant, passwordwise?
[13:16]	:	gotta run. thanks for your time, Jeremy!
[13:16]	 	has pinged you.
[13:16]	:	no nathan
[13:16]	:	you can create your own page of your own SL name on sl wiki
[13:16]	:	so I'd have to create a new account on the wiki
[13:16]	:	only you will be allowed to touch it so to say
[13:16]	:	If you have a Second Life account, you can use that username and password to log into the wiki.
[13:17]	:	oh, so I don't have to create a seperate password on the wiki? I just plug in my SL credentials and awayh we go?
[13:17]	:	its case sensitive too i believe
[13:17]	:	For all practical purposes, yes. I'm not familiar with the back-end details that make it work, though :-)
[13:17]	:	well you could take it into the team as a note :p
[13:18]	:	Same goes for the blog and public Jira as well. Your Second Life account credentials should get you into almost every Second Life service.
[13:18]	:	(tests it) Yup, it accepted my SL password. kewl
[13:18]	:	oh.. the jira being updated soon yes?
[13:18]	:	I haven't heard, KristenLee. Was there an announcement?
[13:19]	:	to make a new page with your name: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nathan_Adored
[13:19]	:	as example
[13:19]	:	hi visa
[13:19]	:	vista*
[13:19]	:	well i got an email from alexa about clearing out pre 1.22 issues before an update
[13:19]	:	think its version 4.0 upgrade or something
[13:19]	:	don't quote me on that tho it was early this morning pre -coffee
[13:20]	:	think you should IM her and ask what she is trying to tell you, Alexa is from the bug triage team
[13:20]	:	Yup, guess I need to insert an extended guide to what makes me me there. :D
[13:20]	:	Heh. Unfortunately, I don't interact with the public Jira very much myself. I can try to look into it, though.
[13:20]	:	unless jeremy has another suggestion :p
[13:20]	 	has pinged you.
[13:20]	:	eep
[13:20]	:	would be nice to know what new features the upgrade might have
[13:21]	:	big thing infront of my cam!
[13:21]	:	Whoa, massive avatar.
[13:21]	:	or if it makes the handy tutorial vids obsolete
[13:21]	:	Hello Vista Questi, do you have a younger brother Win7 Questi and an older brother WinXP Questi? :D
[13:21]	:	oh hi laurent!
[13:21]	:	hello
[13:21]	:	dont pluck my feathers please!
[13:21]	:	oh thanks for asking but im a totally linuxed bunny, actualy .
[13:22]	:	㋡
[13:22]	:	off on a quest for new vistas! that's how i arrived here, that and my human had a vondess for the 'v' thing. hee hee
[13:22]	:	I think I'm going to stay where I am ;))
[13:22]	:	:D
[13:23]	:	Really neat av, anyway.
[13:23]	:	Incoming Kate!
[13:23]	:	aww thanks, i get that alot. pls don't let my beauty interrupt the discussion tho'.! L)
[13:23]	:	Ha. I'm so used to seeing Laurent as a tiny bunny that the giant ape is messing with me :-P
[13:23]	:	Hi :)
[13:23]	:	Hiya Kate
[13:24]	:	:)
[13:24]	:	/me is still rezzing
[13:24]	:	that ape s freakin' amazing!
[13:24]	:	anyone sharing pictures, yet?
[13:24]	:	is there an Empire State Building for him to climb? :D
[13:24]	:	let me know If I'm provoking some lag so I change avatar
[13:24]	:	What's the topic on the table?
[13:25]	:	he'd might like to yiff it, if this is the sl i know of. lol
[13:25]	:	lol
[13:25]	:	was just asking a few odds n sods about jira
[13:25]	:	impending upgrade
[13:26]	:	/me is trying to ping Alexa internally, but she seems to be away from her desk.
[13:26]	:	Yoz's office hour is the best place to ask about that
[13:26]	:	ahh np i got another Q tho
[13:26]	:	any mac user here ? I've read a bench about Mac being very late behind Windows concerning OpenGL. Dos it impact Second Life ?
[13:26]	:	when you post a bug
[13:26]	:	and it gets a reference
[13:27]	:	usually DEV-some number
[13:27]	:	you can search that
[13:27]	:	ugh... trying to make a photo and i crash >.>
[13:27]	:	ぐふ...と私はクラッシュ>写真をしようとして。>を
[13:27]	:	what about EXT-
[13:27]	:	hey kate!
[13:27]	:	ちょっとケイト！
[13:27]	:	Hi Youri
[13:27]	:	bugs assigned EXT-some number
[13:27]	:	is that external?
[13:27]	:	sorry to hear about torley not being in this team any more kate :o
[13:28]	:	ごめんトーリーこのチーム内の任意のケイトの詳細されていない聞いて：oを
[13:28]	:	Hello and sorry if I stepped on someone. Testing a text viewer on mobile.
[13:28]	:	why is it so ?
[13:28]	:	To my knowledge, EXT is a somewhat restricted bug type. Only Lindens and approved testers can access EXT Jira items.
[13:29]	:	what is EXT?
[13:29]	:	ahh so if assigned EXT will any feed back be sent back to the un-restricted original report or is it then in the lap of the gods
[13:30]	:	Jeremy : is this why Torley doesn't come ?
[13:30]	 	has pinged you.
[13:30]	:	jeremy said earlier he was not with the doc team any more
[13:30]	 	has pinged you.
[13:30]	:	/me reads back.
[13:30]	:	Kirsten good question. I've not used EXT JIRA other than as Kate so I have no first hand knowledge. I'll ask!
[13:30]	:	just like to track and follow progress on some issues
[13:31]	:	ok he is doing something else I guess
[13:31]	:	I may have mis-represented his motivations. I think he still wants to come, but he's really busy today and can't make it just this one time.
[13:31]	:	hmm.. new info of that aircraft crash in Libia
[13:31]	:	Ah, so he's not gone, just not.... official? :D
[13:32]	:	Something like that :-)
[13:32]	:	speaking of jira, any plans to update the videos on the front page? they are from 2008 and have outdated info :X
[13:32]	:	/me looks
[13:32]	:	ask alexa i guess
[13:32]	:	hey arawn
[13:33]	:	It sounds like we are in fact updating Jira. Alexa's been trying to clean up all the obsolete issues in there so we can get a fresh start.
[13:33]	:	i been urging her indeed to clean it up
[13:33]	:	Is that why I've been seeing Such and such is closed?
[13:34]	:	lots of mess on there and it is infact used to spam messages
[13:34]	:	I'll watch the videos after this meeting and see if the content is still accurate. If it's not, I'll see what we can do to get them updated
[13:34]	:	anything marked for viewers older than 1.22 are being closed
[13:34]	:	if they don't affect 1.23 / 2.0.1
[13:35]	:	a lot of old stuff can be archived as well, pretty much useless stuff not used any more. does need to stay on there just in case we find a similar bug
[13:35]	:	Kate - the how to file a bug video is 15 mins too >.> thats like 10 minutes longer than most residents patience is when filing a bug
[13:35]	:	is there a way to keep teleport history when changing computer when going on SL ? I have made a feature request to be able to choose the preferences folder to be able to use dropbox, but I don't know if it is the best
[13:35]	:	Good point
[13:36]	:	Have any of you seen Torley's latest blog post on TNT about Inventory Links?
[13:36]	:	http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/tnt/blog/2010/05/11/inventory-links-explained-demystified-hot-questions-answered-etc
[13:36]	:	He's made a video tutorial and a new KB article
[13:36]	:	New Bug Filers don't know how to look up, whether the bug is already thee.
[13:36]	:	i dunno . .some things are NOT bugs, so u dont wana easy entry point for that.
[13:36]	:	if you copy your folders to that new computer, then yes it should be working
[13:36]	:	Hmm... Interesting suggestion, Laurent. I've bene using Google Chrome lately, and I like the way it synchronizes most settings and bookmarks between computers.
[13:36]	:	Opera does that too
[13:36]	:	the tp history is part of the temp files
[13:37]	:	most things are not bugs just people frustrated who wound up at JIRA instead of support >.>
[13:37]	:	and they are not in the preferences folder ?
[13:37]	:	a lot actually go to jira instead of support as well
[13:38]	:	so your point is?
[13:38]	:	/me figures it's a bug, if "expected behaviour" is counter intuitive.
[13:38]	:	WEB-814 is still outstanding?
[13:38]	:	think we should go back to sl wiki :)
[13:38]	:	this is not bug triage :p
[13:39]	:	I was just a bit frustrated that I posted a bug , but because it relates to an EXT I can't track it back to what it actually relates too :)
[13:39]	:	EXT?
[13:39]	:	Kirsten, think of it as being similar to a pjira bug report linking to a DEV JIRA..same thing.
[13:40]	:	/me nods.
[13:40]	:	EXT is only different from internal JIRA numbers because some Residents need to be able to file them.
[13:41]	:	internal jira's usually end up being worked on before the new ones
[13:41]	:	Here is the link to my JIRA for those who are interested : http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-19459
[13:42]	:	think you should go to bug triage or poke Nyx Linden
[13:42]	:	Does anyone have questions about Inventory Links?
[13:43]	:	not that i know of atm kate
[13:43]	:	What's an Inventory Link?
[13:43]	:	do you know what happends to them when you go back to 1.23? do they just not exist?
[13:44]	:	Arawn, in Viewer 2 we introducted inventory links where you have the ability to add a no copy item in your inventory to another outfit. What happens is you are actually creating a link to that original.
[13:44]	:	Your links aren't destroyed when you go back to 1.23, but you won't be able to access them, and sometimes some strange things can happen with your outfits when you switch back to Viewer 2.
[13:44]	:	Important things to know about Inventory Links are that if you add an item to multiple outfits , any changes made to the original also appear in the item it's linked to.
[13:44]	:	yea, I noticed when I log back into 2.0 i'm wearing something completely different
[13:45]	:	Oh, using a no copy item in two outfits? I didn't know we couldn't
[13:45]	:	An analogy... think of a web page and I give you my URL. If I change my web page content, the URL goes to the changed page.
[13:45]	:	er well that wasn't well said
[13:45]	:	lol
[13:46]	:	The URL goes to the same page with the latest changes
[13:46]	:	That might be confusing, since the changed page has a new UUID
[13:46]	:	Or for you web geeks... you're wearing clothing and attachments "by reference" rather than a separate instance for each outfit :-P
[13:46]	:	Jeremy : I know people who had this problem. But wasn't it solved ? I thought it was
[13:46]	 	has pinged you.
[13:46]	:	So key things to remember
[13:47]	:	Laurent, I'm not 100% sure. I know some folks on the avatar team were working on it, but I haven't used 1.23 in a long time now!
[13:47]	:	If you are wearing an outfit with a linked item, dropping the item rather than detaching will break the link.
[13:47]	:	Take it back to inventory by detaching instead.
[13:47]	:	I have never really understood why someone makes a garment nocopy anyway, unless they'd also made it trans....
[13:47]	:	"by references" means links to the original object ?
[13:48]	:	Here is the KB article: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Inventory_links
[13:48]	:	Yes. There is really only one object, but it can appear to be in many places. Anything that affects the object affects it in all your outfits.
[13:48]	:	I encourage you to read it and also share your knowledge about inventory links with other Residents who ask :)
[13:49]	:	The old problem of, how do we look something up, if we don't know what it's called?
[13:50]	:	think i rather use real copies, i dont buy only "copy/mod" items for no reason :p
[13:50]	:	That works too, Youri. It does increase the size of your inventory, though. The more stuff you have, the longer it takes to load :-)
[13:50]	:	usually the object is in the creator folder. So if he change the object, people who have bought will have it changed ?
[13:51]	:	You can tell if your item in inventory is a copy or a linked item. It will say (linked) in italics next to the item. You can also search for the original from your inventory or the gear menu on My Appearance
[13:51]	:	No, Laurent. Links must be created starting at an item you already own.
[13:52]	:	jeremy, i really couldnt care less :p
[13:52]	 	has pinged you.
[13:52]	:	as you know, my avitars always get modded sooner or later, so i always have copies and modified items :)
[13:52]	:	So, if you have a favorite pair of shoes, you can use links to say: "Wear this pair of shoes with this outfit, even though there is only one copy and it is in a different folder."
[13:53]	:	ok. you were talking on the new 2.0 feature, my outfits
[13:53]	:	i rather have it all in the same folder, that option "replace all" isnt that just for looks :p
[13:53]	:	Yes, My Outfits uses links.
[13:53]	:	I use replace all frequently.
[13:54]	:	I especially like having outfits ready to roll in My Appearance.
[13:54]	:	Youri : My outfits from 2.0 avoid this problem of having all in a single folder
[13:54]	:	+1 Kate
[13:54]	:	not all outfits in the same folder, i meant per folder 1 outfit
[13:55]	:	I like having a few different looks, but I only have one messenger bag and one pair of shoes!
[13:55]	:	it's what I mean too :)
[13:55]	:	did i hear someone saying 'shoes'? :P
[13:55]	:	Maybe :-O
[13:56]	:	/me tries to imagine Mrs. Marcos's Inventory
[13:56]	:	down dawny, back in your seat :p
[13:56]	:	was just a example :p
[13:56]	:	hehehehe
[13:56]	:	Youri : one outfit folder full of links to different clothes in different folders. easier and less copies
[13:57]	:	Yes, exactly :-)
[13:57]	:	unless you like to modify things to your likings
[13:58]	:	then you basically mod the orriginal, and not a save copy
[13:59]	:	Youri : in that way, yes
[13:59]	:	i never use 100% orriginal outfits
[13:59]	:	It was great to see everyone this week. I've moved my own office hour to Tuesdays - info is in my profile. Hope to see you there. :) I need to scoot.
[13:59]	:	i always mod things, so i can not use links
[13:59]	:	thanks for this OH jeremy and kate!
[13:59]	 	has pinged you.
[13:59]	:	/me says Bye Bye !
[13:59]	:	Kate
[14:00]	:	*waves*
[14:00]	:	See you jeremy
[14:00]	 	has pinged you.
[14:00]	:	Thanks for coming!
[14:00]	:	what sort of things go on at Kate Linden's meetings?
[14:00]	:	hope i can get home
[14:00]	:	bye bye all!
[14:00]	:	[POSTED 1:38 PM PDT] We are aware of some issues with teleporting between regions and are working on a solution. If a teleport fails, please try it again. Please check this blog for updates.
[14:00]	:	/me says Bye Bye !
[14:00]	:	all!
[14:00]	:	I also find outfits tab makes it easier to find my outfits. less clutter
[14:00]	:	i'd like to ask the same
[14:00]	:	katie things, obviously! lol
 
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