Open Development User Group/Archive/2011-02-14

07:01 	Oz Linden  	So ... we have a few items on our agenda today ....https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Development_User_Group#Agenda
07:02 	Jonathan  	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Development_User_Group#Agenda
  	Oz Linden  	# Open Development Jira Project Workflow
  	  	I just wanted to comment briefly on this and see if there is any discussion....
07:03 	  	I'm using the same workflow that we use in the STORM project, except that contributors can create issues
  	  	so the flowchart on the Snowstorm documentation applies
07:04 	  	whether or not we'll change that depends on how well it works
  	Jonathan  	It might be nice to be able to close issues
  	Oz Linden  	If we take an item as a STORM work item, it will be moved there (because that makes the sprint tracking better)
07:05 	  	The Reporter should be able to close an issue
  	  	or the Assignee
  	Lestat Demain  	wont that result in false closures?
07:06 	Oz Linden  	If someone would like to take up an issue here, that's ok... most of you should, I think, be able to Assign an issue to yourself and Start Progress on it
  	Lestat Demain  	as in they think they got the bug when its in an entirely different section?
  	Oz Linden  	Lestat... if it does, we can re-open them, but I don't expect much of that
  	  	This project will have a smaller and more committed user base than most
07:08 	  	so... that's pretty much what I had to say on that... if something is not working the way you think it should, let me know
  	Wolfpup  	that is true as it concernd building in an open source environment
  	Oz Linden  	Status of VWR-24487
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24487
VWR-24487 llurlentry_stub.cpp:196: error: deprecated conversion from string constant to 'char*'
07:09 	Oz Linden  	The "right" answer to this one is that we need to put in place a process for updating the message template file and its conversion script so that it matches the one in the released simulator code
  	  	the whole point of that file is compatibility between the two
07:10 	  	at the moment, there's only one minor difference
  	Lestat Demain  	ive noticed a small problem with that in vc2010...something to do with utf code
  	Jonathan  	Did you manually push out a new version yet?
  	Oz Linden  	not yet...
  	Jonathan  	Let me know if/when you do; it is going to be listed as an impediment in my report today
07:11 	Oz Linden  	We actually need to apply the fix for the converter to the simulator tree so that it is compatible with newer compilers, then clone both back to the viewer
  	  	To clear the impediment, I'm going to temporarily check in the fix on the issue, but not close the issue
07:12 	  	until we've also solved the simulator compatibility issue
  	Jonathan  	oh, sorry, I think we might be talking about 2 diferent things; is this about the packet protocol file?
  	Oz Linden  	which I expect to do by the beginning of next week, after we've done the VS 2010 hackathon (more on that at the end of our agenda... forgot to add it)
07:13 	  	well, it's the packet protocol file and the c++ file generated from it
  	Jonathan  	message_template.msg
  	Oz Linden  	I'm just going to fix the generated file for now, the template and process next week
  	  	right
07:14 	  	Autobuild merge to viewer-development
07:15 	Wolfpup  	Oz i would not sugest doing a merg till Merov gets open-4 fixed
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-4
OPEN-4 As an Open Source Developer, I would like to use Fmod in the autobuild system if i have the needed files already
  	Oz Linden  	The new configuration in my viewer-autobuildvs8 repo is ok... open-1
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-1
OPEN-1 autobuild does not support use with Visual Studio Express
  	Jonathan  	I would think about getting open-30 fixed too
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-30
OPEN-30 LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is not set to TRUE
  	Oz Linden  	so I'm going to merge that to the main viewer-autobuild repo
07:16 	  	I had not seen that yet... let's leave it for a bit and come back to it
  	  	on open-4
07:17 	  	Merov should be able to start on that today, since I'm taking over the Merge Monkey chores
  	Wolfpup  	my autobuild viewer has no sound at all
  	Jonathan  	Wolfpup, I just dropped fmod into the right places
  	Oz Linden  	I think it will be pretty quick
  	  	But I agree - fixing it is a blocker for the merge of autobuild into viewer-development
  	Jonathan  	not a showstopped, but it should be handled in an automated way
07:18 	Oz Linden  	dropping it in by hand is not good enough... I want a packaged automated solution
  	Wolfpup  	i tried that and edited the xml to forsce -DFMOD=TRUE and it also Forced -DPRIVATEBUILD=TRUE and failed to even configure
  	Oz Linden  	this business of having dozens of manual finicky steps to be able to build is bogus, and we're just going to fix it
07:19 	Lestat Demain  	oh good to hear...can we also phase out boost as well?
  	Jonathan  	The other drop-in issue (msvc* on Express) is handled by a switch; I think it will be easier to automate in vs2010
  	Oz Linden  	I don't think so... we use it for several things, but the new packaging makes it pretty easy (or should)
07:20 	Wolfpup  	Oz with Nicky's help via irc i got autobuild to finaly work and give the output like he is getting but i think i may have intrduced another bug
  	Siana Gearz  	lestat, if it was a joke it wasn't funny -.-
  	Oz Linden  	did you put the analysis into the issue?
  	  	forgets which one that was...
  	Lestat Demain  	u kidding? from what i hear boost is the biggest problem there is
07:21 	Siana Gearz  	lestat, it's the biggest help there is too.
  	Wolfpup  	Nicky is running a full autobuild as we speak
  	  	the bug is a python error in llsdmesage test
07:22 	  	one of the things nicky had me do was switch the type of pythion im useing
07:23 	Oz Linden  	Ok... this afternoon, I'm going to draft a new environment setup page for Windows building with autobuild
  	Wolfpup  	if there are any merges to virewer development tonight ill know if it is on the autobuild system or my python in the morning
  	Oz Linden  	I'll need you all to help me debug it
07:24 	Wolfpup  	Oz one thing you will ned is some Vista/7 specific configuration setting for the cmd window
  	Oz Linden  	make sure it is in the jira, and I'll collect it from there
  	Wolfpup  	ill get the graphics for those
  	Oz Linden  	great
  	Wolfpup  	ok ill put them in open-4
07:25 	  	along with what has to be set and how
  	Oz Linden  	I'd like to do some OPEN issue triage, but first I want to talk a bit about the hackathon for VS 2010
  	Wolfpup  	what days are that?
  	Oz Linden  	I'll post something more detailed on the list later this week...
  	  	The big days are Thursday and Friday this week
07:26 	Wolfpup  	might be able to help on thursday but friday i work RL
07:27 	Oz Linden  	Lots of Lindens will wall themselves into a room or two in Battery, disconnect from distractions, and try to upgrade everything we build so that it 1) builds in VS 2010, and 2) builds on TeamCity
  	  	I'm not going to be in the room, because I'll be in Cambridge (aka "Boston")
  	Jonathan  	so it is a work meeting, not a planning session
07:28 	Oz Linden  	but we'll have a sattelite room there
  	  	absolutely Jonathan
  	Jonathan  	and they can't leave on friday night until it is all done? :)
  	Wolfpup  	so how would an os dev get in on this?
07:29 	Oz Linden  	There will be a big spreadsheet that tracks who is doing what and what works
  	Jonathan  	will someone be testing 2010 Express builds?
  	Oz Linden  	I'm going to make a public version of that, and will keep the two in sync
07:30 	  	nice leading question, Jonathan - yes, and it's you
  	Jonathan  	hmmm, where do I get my plane ticket?
  	Oz Linden  	that is, the open developers will have to be the ones figuring out whether or not we have broken things for you
  	  	same place I'll get mine
07:31 	Jonathan  	will we be testing in real-time or after the friday session is over?
  	Oz Linden  	all the open components will be worked on in open repos... which will all have been created by then
  	  	it would clearly be better if it was happening in real time
  	Jonathan  	Will there be a list of software requirements? Obviously vs2010 Express + corresponding vcredist file
07:32 	Wolfpup  	Oz Nicky just finished a run but i do not thing he ran it righ as he did not get the error i get
  	Oz Linden  	well, that's the sort of details that we need to make sure we have worked out before Thursday
07:33 	  	so... as I said, I'm going to write something up for the list, probably tomorrow morning (today is filling up fast)
  	  	and we'll see how much we can do in parallel
07:34 	  	hopefully, not too much will be badly broken by this, but if it is we'll get it fixed ASAP together
  	Wolfpup  	Oz one thing i can tel you is that they will have to make a system that adds the need configuration to the project for the exe, lib and includes paths that are normaly se in the options for VS2010
  	Oz Linden  	before then (the plan is today), viewer-development will be branched to viewer-beta, so that none of this will disrupt the 2.6 beta cycle (v-d will become 2.7)
07:35 	  	don't tell me anything here... put it in the appropriate jira issue
  	Jonathan  	Will the hack-a-thoners be using autobuild?
07:36 	Oz Linden  	yes
  	  	Every component will be built with autobuild, so getting that configuration done will also be a goal
07:37 	  	(many are already done with current tools)
07:38 	  	So... get psyched up....
  	Jonathan  	Does advance testing need to be done with vs2010 express + autobuild? Will that xml file needs additions?
  	Oz Linden  	I _hope_ that we will have merged that into viewer-development before Thursday
07:39 	Lestat Demain  	so your going with express and not standard vs2010? need to know so i dont install wrong 1 and run into unforseen probs
  	Jonathan  	I thought there were issues with 2010 express -- no msbuild.exe or something
  	Oz Linden  	LIndens use the Pro version, and that's what TeamCity does
  	Wolfpup  	merov are you going to get open-2 merged into the autobuild system today?
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-2
OPEN-2 autobuild configure does not show any progress messages
07:40 	Wolfpup  	soryy ment OZ
  	Jonathan  	there has to be some way to tell autobuild which compiler to use, right?
  	Oz Linden  	Right now, the only way is to create a new configuration in autobuild.xml, which is not very satisfactory
  	Wolfpup  	Jonathan that is done when you configure your auto build window
07:41 	Oz Linden  	but is good enough to unblock merging into v-d
  	  	Ideally, I'd like autobuild to have an abstraction for that and auto-detect which to use
  	  	but we may have to develop that in the community because Lindens don't need it
07:42 	Wolfpup  	IE... %%comspec%% /k ""c:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio X\VC\vcvarsall.bat"" x86 where X is the version of VS you are useing (8,9,10)
  	Oz Linden  	Wolfpup... _NOT_HERE_
07:43 	  	Let's look at the OPEN issues ... https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&jqlQuery=project+%%3D+OPEN+AND+resolution+%%3D+Unresolved+AND+assignee+is+EMPTY+AND+status+%%3D+Open+ORDER+BY+priority+DESC%%2C+key+DESC
  	Wolfpup  	sorry Oz, Jonathan was asking how autobuild would know which compiler to use
07:44 	Jonathan  	not know which one to use, but to specify which one to use--that is an important distinction
  	Oz Linden  	(besides, I'm told that is not the right answer, Wolfpup, and I'm not going to break my own rule by going into it here)
  	  	OPEN-30
07:45 	Jonathan  	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/open-30
  	Office Orb  	OPEN-30 LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is not set to TRUE
  	Oz Linden  	Jonathan... I'm going to pick on you a bit... that is a _terrible_ issue summary
  	Ima Mechanique 	I need to relog. brb
  	Oz Linden  	it does not describe the user visible problem
07:46 	Jonathan  	good point
  	  	That's what happens when I am rushing
  	Oz Linden  	there's no way someone reading the list would recognize that this is in any way related to debug console windows
  	  	don't rush
  	  	taking time to write good problem reports is Important
  	Jonathan  	I will amend it
  	Oz Linden  	and Jonathan is by no means the only or the worst offender in this regard
07:47 	  	Issue summaries and Descriptions are about the problem - the symptoms, not the cures
  	Jonathan  	Constructive criticism is appreciated
07:48 	Cummere Mayo  	you mean on the jira or?
  	Oz Linden  	http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
  	  	Read it
  	  	Then go back and read it again
07:49 	  	Really .... I mean it.
  	  	Everybody
07:50 	  	and that applies even more to developers ... if we can't write exemplary bug reports, how do we expect users to give us decent ones?
  	  	I have been for years and fully intend to continue being a pain about this
07:51 	  	anyway... enough berating... back to the issue
07:52 	Jonathan  	I don't autobuild to see how to fix this
  	Oz Linden  	I don't see why this rates as Severe
  	  	does it prevent the viewer from running, or damage data?
07:53 	Jonathan  	Someone testing a viewer compiled this way will not be testing a viewer a user will be running
  	Oz Linden  	ugly is not Severe, nor is inconvenient
  	  	It is not a goal to be able to create a Release viewer with Express
  	Jonathan  	downgrade to major or minor?
07:54 	Oz Linden  	(and when I get a TeamCity instance up that you can use, you'll have access to Pro)
  	  	at most Major, I think, probably Minor
  	Jonathan  	done
07:55 	Oz Linden  	also, please specify what sort of variable LL_RELEASE_FOR_DOWNLOAD is... autobuild, cmake, compiler define, gobal C++ variable... what?
  	  	(there, not here)
07:56 	  	What do people think about OPEN-11 ?
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-11
OPEN-11 Change STANDALONE to something better.
  	Oz Linden  	that exists for open devs, so if you all agree it should be changed and on what it should be changed to and will do that work, we can certainly change it
07:57 	Ima Mechanique 	yes to change, to what, no idea
  	Cummere Mayo  	reads the issue fast
  	Wolfpup  	maybe NonDL ?
  	Jonathan  	notes that this summary could also be slightly clearer
07:58 	Oz Linden  	Well, that's the sort of thing that I think should be thrashed out on the list, but unless a discussion takes place there within a week and appears to be making progress, I will close it
  	  	I'm going to try to keep the open issues list in OPEN manageable....
  	Cummere Mayo  	err yeah um as a non dev it gets confusing to us what is meant when people say standalone viewer ... just fyi
  	Oz Linden  	yes, I can imaging, Cummere
  	Wolfpup  	Honestly StandAlone seems right for that as that is how the viewer is being build
07:59 	Oz Linden  	it confused me... conceptually I agree it's a problem
  	  	let's take that to the list
  	  	open-6
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-6
OPEN-6 Add support to autobuild for local archives as dependencies and as targets
  	  	Your timer has expired!
08:00 	Oz Linden  	I've been told that in fact dependencies already work... you can specify a file: url, that fact just isn't documented
  	Wolfpup  	that one would help with things like fmod by creating a storage system for all localy build 3p libs
  	Oz Linden  	so I'm going to fix that, and we may not need the support for targets (and that may work too), so I expect to close this very soon
  	  	yes, exactly
08:01 	Jonathan  	Will you send an email to the os list when you have done a push to autobuild?
  	Oz Linden  	The only bother will be that you'll have to modify the autobuild configuration (the recommended way to do that is going to be to copy it so that you don't risk checking in a local reference accidentally)
08:02 	  	yes - should be doing that today
  	  	waiting on 2 more reviews, but I"m going to pester people
  	  	OPEN-5
  	Office Orb  	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-5
OPEN-5 Viewer build fails on Linux due to parallel test execution
08:03 	Oz Linden  	This only happens if you have a multi-core system, and it timing sensitive.
  	Wolfpup  	there should be a way to have the autobuild system check to see if it is in a LL ie TC or OS build env and then work according ly
08:04 	Oz Linden  	I prefer solutions that just detect the technology issue that's relevant, not arbitrary things like "I am in LL".
  	  	it happens that our build servers have lots of cores, so this happens there often
08:05 	  	but that doesn't mean we should detect that it's on our build server
  	Wolfpup  	sorry on that i was trying to be more general
  	Jonathan  	Oz, will you have time to post the chat log ina timely fashion so people not here can see what was said about the hackathon and have some time to prepare?
  	Ima Mechanique 	plus what happens to OS dev with multi cores?
  	Oz Linden  	no need to apologize
  	Jonathan  	I could try to do it if you are booked
  	Oz Linden  	yes... in fact, I've semi-automated chat log formatting now....
08:06 	  	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Oz_Linden/Tools#Chat_Logs
  	Wolfpup  	i was just meaning check arch, os and wheither private or publick build system
  	Oz Linden  	the only step I can't do from the command line is to actually post it to the wiki
08:07 	  	My Orb here even emails me the command line ! :-)
  	  	Speaking of which ... we're over time... we'll pick up on the list and on Wednesday
08:08 	  	Thanks for a useful session
  	Jonathan  	good meeting
  	Cummere Mayo  	oz quick question?
  	  	about jira
  	Dil Spitz  	Thank You and preserve You power of fun! :)