Mesh/Archive/2012-08-27

==Agenda==
# Will there be any veiwer settings requirements to see materials? such as lighting and shadows on. ac14 Hutson
# Materials.... When, where, and how can we test materials? Will materials be at the cost of texture faces? What Channel direction will normal maps use? Any thought of adding AO slot or Shadow Map slot? Will they be required option in uploader or option in edit object features panel? 3DOpifex Resident 11:02, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
# We will see reflective materials like mirrors or realistic water? Voodoo Radek
# Rigged Mesh Priorities for mesh deformer, to deform one another? Possible? Any thoughts of adding this? 3DOpifex Resident 12:05, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
# I haven't been able to log in to the JIRA system for a week. Who would I contact to fix it? Ashasekayi Ra 12:16, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
# How does the current deformer do its job? (how does it operate) 3DOpifex Resident 12:57, 27 August 2012 (PDT)
==Meeting Notes==
==Attendees List==
*ac14 Hutson (ac14.hutson)
*Ash Weststar (ash.qin)
*Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
*beanster Potato (beanster.potato)
*Boyd Doghouse (boyd.doghouse)
*Braydon Randt (braydon.randt)
*Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
*Fabled Magic (fabled.magic)
*FatMasterFlash (fatmasterflash)
*Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)
*JIRA-helper (jira-helper)
*jr (jr4201.kruyschek)
*Kennylex Luckless (kennylex.luckless)
*LifeInBeta (lifeinbeta)
*Nal (nalates.urriah)
*Nyx Linden (nyx.linden)
*Severus Slade (princeseverus.slade)
*Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
*Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
*Tiberious Neruda (tiberious.neruda)
*Typhaon Nishi (typhaon.nishi)
*v00 Ceres (v00.ceres)
*Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)
*Voodoo Radek (voodoo.radek)
*World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)
*„Ñ®∆∏ÃµÃ°Œ∑ (xen.zelnik)
*Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell)
==Transcript for Monday August 27, 2012==
[12:00]	Nyx Linden 	greetings all
[12:01]	v00 Ceres 	hey Nyx
[12:01]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	I believe the reasoning was because UUID flipping is hell on the asset system
[12:01]	Rusalka Writer 	Made it!
[12:01]	ac14 Hutson 	hello.
[12:01]	Tiberious Neruda 	woot... Nyx is here!
[12:01]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Hello, Nyx.
[12:01]	Severus Slade (princeseverus.slade) 	i always thought that prims are found on the server using UUID.. mesh proves me wrong there. how is it made?
[12:02]	Nyx Linden 	the agenda is here, please feel free to add topics to the end as appropriate: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:02]	Severus Slade (princeseverus.slade) 	thank you nyx
[12:02]	Nyx Linden 	shall we get started?
[12:02]	Kennylex Luckless 	I has a question about PE. I did import a lion head that had around 17 000 vertex, at the size of 0.199 it was 1 PE but at size 0.200 it did jump to 14 PE. Is it so that (17 000 vertex * 14) at 0.199 brings no more lag than same (single) model that is just 0.001 larger?
[12:03]	Nyx Linden 	first topic: Will there be any veiwer settings requirements to see materials? such as lighting and shadows on. ac14 Hutson
[12:03]	Tiberious Neruda 	ooh... the big one
[12:03]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	hi everyone
[12:03]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha.
[12:04]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	for the time being: yes
[12:04]	Tiberious Neruda 	/me sighs
[12:04]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Lighting & Shadows will be required, *however* you can disable the shadows part by setting that setting to "None"
[12:04]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha.
[12:04]	Tiberious Neruda 	why do we have to take that framerate hit?
[12:04]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	O.O really? One would have to turn that on in the project viewer for materials?
[12:04]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	(which will save users a bit of a performance hit)
[12:05]	Drongle McMahon 	Kennylex ... it's probably the hidden switch of physics shape type.
[12:05]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Because forward rendering cannot light up bumps very well.
[12:05]	ac14 Hutson 	im sure most people here know that but i know alot of my customers who arent able or dont do that. theres no way to put it under basic sharders or whatever. i mean we have bumpmapping under that
[12:05]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	what Koli said more or less, the way lighting is handled on bump mapped objects without lighting and shadows enabled is incompatible with apply lighitng to a normal map
[12:06]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	however, it's worth stating that I'm only speaking about the first release here
[12:06]	ac14 Hutson 	Is it possible the settings can be changed to enable "advanced lighting" but remove unlimited local light and projectors that can bog down computers
[12:06]	Tiberious Neruda 	....Geenz... experience has shown that if it's not in the first release, we don't get it
[12:06]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	we'll see
[12:07]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	and Tiberious, we're talking about something that would be purely viewer-side here, there's no reason it can't be done as a separate contribution
[12:07]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	but that's a different story!
[12:07]	ac14 Hutson 	I mean the more people that can see with with lower settings the better off it will be :p
[12:07]	Tiberious Neruda 	with server-side parts necessary
[12:08]	Nyx Linden 	materials definitely should not be enabled for everyone who is running basic shaders, but there is likely a decent middle ground between that and full lighting & shadows.
[12:08]	Tiberious Neruda 	I do too for some stupid reason
[12:08]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Strange.
[12:08]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	Tiberious: not really, per-pixel lighting can be implemented in the forward renderer without server-side changes, but it's an issue that requires additional thought
[12:09]	Tiberious Neruda 	but the sim still needs to know what effects people should see
[12:09]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	as Nyx said, per-pixel lighting probably won't be enabled with basic shaders, but we'll see where things go
[12:10]	Tiberious Neruda 	....I'm talking about possibly being able to use the extra texture slots for effects other than just normal/specular maps
[12:10]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	and the server is ignorant to what viewer-side settings you're using for rendering
[12:10]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Tiberious, why would the server need to know what settings we are using? Do you mean to decide whether or not to download normals & Specular maps?
[12:10]	Nyx Linden 	that's a completely separate question Tiberious
[12:11]	FatMasterFlash 	HI EVERY1 =)
[12:11]	FatMasterFlash 	IS THIS WATERHEAD =)
[12:11]	Rusalka Writer 	This is a mesh group meeting.
[12:11]	FatMasterFlash 	MESH? =)
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Can someone post the agenda link?
[12:12]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	well that was fast!
[12:12]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:12]	Tiberious Neruda 	true... but I still think that if we don't get that ability in the first release, we'll never get it
[12:12]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:12]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thank you :)
[12:13]	Nyx Linden 	more to say that using "extra texture slots" as something other than normal/specular should be a different topic of discussion than which settings normal/specular maps will be enabled for :)
[12:13]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden) 	/ As the title doesn't really make clear, we talk about all types of content creation here, not just mesh
[12:13]	Rusalka Writer 	Plus, ponies.
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	ok I think we've covered the first topic, moving on?
[12:14]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "Materials.... When, where, and how can we test materials? Will materials be at the cost of texture faces? What Channel direction will normal maps use? Any thought of adding AO slot or Shadow Map slot? Will they be required option in uploader or option in edit object features panel? 3DOpifex Resident 11:02, 27 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:14]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	multiple questions here!
[12:15]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	first question: when it's ready, on the beta grid, and with the appropriate project viewer when it's ready
[12:16]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Is the ETA in weeks, months, or years?
[12:16]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	No ETA.
[12:16]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	:P
[12:16]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	second: currently you'll be able to have as many materials as there are selectable faces on a prim (or texture groups on a mesh)
[12:16]	Fabled Magic 	Will there be channels?
[12:16]	Tiberious Neruda 	sometime in early 2025, it sounds like
[12:16]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	"channels"?
[12:16]	Rusalka Writer 	I hope that drives the right sort of behavior.
[12:16]	Fabled Magic 	Texture channels, where you can put more than one texture on a single face- and blend them together
[12:17]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	no
[12:17]	Fabled Magic 	For example you could blend in a normal map- ah ok
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	you mean a material for each face?
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	and this applies to normal prims too, right
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	think of it as adding normal & specular texture "slots" to each prim "face"
[12:18]	Tiberious Neruda 	?
[12:18]	Fabled Magic 	Perhaps we could have an option to use the SL water on a face?
[12:18]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	channel direction that normal maps will use, I assume you mean DirectX style or OpenGL style?
[12:18]	Nyx Linden 	that's topic 3 Fabled, we'll get to that next
[12:19]	Fabled Magic 	Oops, sorry, I didn't see it ^^
[12:19]	Tiberious Neruda 	....I'm awaiting someone causing a crash by literally raining pennies... each with normal-mapped obverse/reverse
[12:19]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	(as in, positive Y or negative Y)
[12:20]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	R = tangent space X axis, G = tangent space Y axis, B = tangent space Z axis
[12:20]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	assume OpenGL style coordinates
[12:21]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	(which in 3D applications that allow the selection of coordinate systems, it's usually literally labeled "OpenGL Style"
[12:22]	Tiberious Neruda 	...I think that's actually a rather legitimate question... what kind of performance impact will multiple normal-mapped objects have?
[12:22]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	next: no support for separate ambient occlusion or shadow maps in the first version (though I'd argue that'd be better of as a separate static lighting system entirely)
[12:22]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	under lighting and shadows, they won't have any additional performance impact than existing bumpy or shiny objects do
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	even with tons of them?
[12:23]	Nyx Linden 	more texture data to download / hold in memory of course
[12:23]	Tiberious Neruda 	I'm thinking a suitably complex one, repeated often enough
[12:23]	Rusalka Writer 	Aw, c'mon, we can crash this sucker.
[12:23]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	right, aside from the additional texture data, there will be no additional performance impact than existing bumpy and shiny objects
[12:24]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	as for the last part of Opifex's question:
[12:24]	Voodoo Radek 	That's sounds good
[12:24]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	textures will be uploaded separately, and applied to an object in-world as such
[12:25]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	yes
[12:25]	Drongle McMahon 	Ordinary prims too, no?
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	yes
[12:26]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I was about to ask that :D
[12:26]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Just not clothing layers or avatar...yes?
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	unfortunately, yes
[12:26]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	(for now, it's a rather complex issue)
[12:27]	Nyx Linden 	avatars are special types of primitives :)
[12:27]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	ones that get rather special treatment as well!
[12:27]	Tiberious Neruda 	avatars: the original rigged mesh
[12:27]	Rusalka Writer 	No scales, then?
[12:28]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	however, rigged meshes will work with materials
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	Ah.
[12:28]	Tiberious Neruda 	right now, even bump doesn't work with them
[12:28]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Good to go ^^
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer 	No problems.
[12:29]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "We will see reflective materials like mirrors or realistic water? Voodoo Radek"
[12:30]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	for now, no
[12:30]	Voodoo Radek 	Ok
[12:30]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	a lot of it has to do with there's no trivial means to do reflections on objects
[12:30]	Nyx Linden 	reflection is....expensive.
[12:30]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	indeed
[12:30]	Rusalka Writer 	The mythic mirror.
[12:30]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	and things like screen space reflections are very limited
[12:31]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	and require a lot of filtering to smooth out the artifacts
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	and most places in SL aren't limited enough to do a portal or other indoor-centric system
[12:31]	ac14 Hutson 	custom cubemap?
[12:31]	Nyx Linden 	(much less preprocessing required)
[12:31]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	To note, water reflection is only rendered at 512x512 to reduce the performance penalty.
[12:31]	Severus Slade (princeseverus.slade) 	/me likes portal systems
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I was thinking cube map as well.
[12:32]	LifeInBeta 	I believe that no matter how many cosmetic improvements will be made to SL it doesn't help as long as SL is infamous for its griefer base, there is a recent wave of hacking, your I.P. address can be easily found out with an exploit of the voice software
[12:32]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	reflections and refractions are two of the really most costing in computer processing
[12:32]	LifeInBeta 	Sims can easily be crashed
[12:32]	Voodoo Radek 	We will be able to use the current water material at least?
[12:32]	Tiberious Neruda 	speedything goesin, speedything comesout
[12:32]	Voodoo Radek 	Would be nice in skyboxes
[12:32]	LifeInBeta 	LL need to address security issues before anything such as reflections
[12:32]	Nyx Linden 	no, there are a number of reasons why the water shaders cannot be used on arbitrary prims.
[12:32]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	O.o
[12:32]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	oh teh noes, my IP address!
[12:33]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol Geenz
[12:33]	Voodoo Radek 	Alright, perfomance issues then
[12:33]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	Voodoo - that's the primary reason. Would just cost too much.
[12:33]	Voodoo Radek 	I understand
[12:33]	LifeInBeta 	LL should also be aware of that Welcome Areas / Telehubs such as Ahern, Violet, Waterhead are hot-spots for griefers
[12:33]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	LifeInBeta - wrong user group.
[12:33]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	Can't tell if LifeInBeta is trolling.
[12:33]	LifeInBeta 	Yet to see a Linden drop by in those areas is a very rare thing
[12:34]	LifeInBeta 	Perhaps they would rather just not see
[12:34]	Braydon Randt 	perhaps we dont give a shyte
[12:34]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	/me thinks his trolling.
[12:34]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	there may be some *limited* ability to reflect nearby objects that are directly in view *at some point*, but there's no guarantee on that, would have to look at the overall performance and the quality
[12:34]	LifeInBeta 	Braydon why are you answering in their name?
[12:34]	ac14 Hutson 	But really has cubemap been considered at all for reflections?
[12:34]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	LifeInBeta: you should ask that in the respective Linden offce
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	we're focused mainly on content creation issues at this meeting, but please do feel free to report any issues of griefing or security issues in the appropriate channels (abuse reports, security project in jira, respectively)
[12:35]	LifeInBeta 	What's the appropriate office?
[12:35]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "Rigged Mesh Priorities for mesh deformer, to deform one another? Possible? Any thoughts of adding this? 3DOpifex Resident 12:05, 27 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:35]	LifeInBeta 	LL can't handle all reports, this is a fact.
[12:35]	World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)	I would like to know where that appropriate office is as well...or how many abuse reports for a copybotter does it take to get it banned
[12:35]	Braydon Randt 	because ... ive been here since mainland was filled with gambelling , camping sex sex sex ..... SL is becomming facebook , and i honestly dont give a crap about griefers in what ever place , because you can get hacked shopping online , or facebook or just getitng your mail, the security holes arnt that big , and inr eality .... its such a small issue on a MASSIVE platform ..
[12:36]	Rusalka Writer 	Yes.
[12:36]	Nyx Linden 	could you explain what specifically you want to do with multiple deformers?
[12:37]	Voodoo Radek 	Priorities for teh deformer? i though you were able to enable o disable it in each rigged mesh you upload
[12:38]	Typhaon Nishi 	having one like a collision object?
[12:38]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	They talked about having an offset amount to handle that.
[12:38]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	The idea of layered deformation has been brought up. A shirt feforming a jacket.... Karl says that is beyond the scope of current work.
[12:38]	LifeInBeta 	Alright, I'll try to figure out what the relevant office is on my own
[12:39]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	I don't think they planned to include it on the first release though.
[12:39]	Typhaon Nishi 	yeah it would be nice to have some some of standard so that creations from different designers could fit in unison
[12:39]	LifeInBeta 	Perhaps I'll have to look for "Linden" in the people search and find the Linden in charge of security issues and then be told to file an AR for which I don't find a category and which will not be read
[12:39]	Typhaon Nishi 	so that one shirt from one place could fit over jeans from another
[12:39]	Typhaon Nishi 	for example
[12:39]	Tiberious Neruda 	...yeah. Is for sure trolling
[12:40]	LifeInBeta 	Trolling?
[12:40]	Nyx Linden 	its a bit different than the deformer topic, if you're talking about layering and giving priorities to the joint offsets themselves
[12:40]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	he is a newb, he doesn`t understand
[12:40]	LifeInBeta 	Oh quit your whining the lot of you, you divert much more off topic by pointless responses to me
[12:40]	Nyx Linden 	but an interesting topic!
[12:40]	Tiberious Neruda 	oh... yes... joint offsetting does NOT play nice with itself
[12:40]	„Ñ®∆∏ÃµÃ°Œ∑ (xen.zelnik)	/me just mutes "Life"
[12:40]	LifeInBeta 	Thanks for letting me know you muted me
[12:41]	LifeInBeta 	Instead of silently doing it
[12:41]	Typhaon Nishi 	I do lik ethe idea of a sort of offset
[12:41]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	LifeInBeta: sorry w can`t help you at the moment, we are in a meeting about Mesh making (importing 3D objects to Second Life) and we can`t get out of that topic now
[12:41]	Tiberious Neruda 	there's serious issues with wearing multiple meshes with offsets
[12:42]	Tiberious Neruda 	...you end up deformed until logout
[12:42]	Tiberious Neruda 	(most noticable when you take off that mesh)
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	ahh ok, sorry misinterpreted the question :)
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Offsets were already on the table but not in the scope of the original project Qarl took on.
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	so you're talking about clothing layering and the like?
[12:43]	Nyx Linden 	yes layering of rigged mesh clothing
[12:44]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	we want gizmos, ppl, gizmos, yehay!
[12:44]	Tiberious Neruda 	he is, yeah. what he's talking about is using the deformer to push the vertices of a 'lower' clothing layer in towards the 'bone' to avoid overlaps
[12:44]	Nyx Linden 	no worries, the terminology is overloaded :)
[12:45]	Nyx Linden 	yes, as a few others stated, its been a popular request, but is out of scope for the first iteration of the deformer work.
[12:45]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	gimme da lattices, gimme da lattices
[12:45]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	lol
[12:46]	Nyx Linden 	would be nice to have, but technically very complex - would not happen for the initial round of work for the deformer work. Qarl and Oz would know latest on the status of that project.
[12:47]	Rusalka Writer 	Picturing a nuclear war of customer complaint.
[12:47]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	that`s collision detection, again is a very costly processing thing
[12:47]	Rusalka Writer 	Must stick to Garanimals.
[12:48]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	hooo boy
[12:48]	Braydon Randt 	/me pulls out his brain , bounces it a few times cleans it on his lg .. and pops it back in " all these things on the table at the moment , we are running before we even have legs"
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	the viewer makes some use of multiple threads currently - extra threads are used for texture decoding and a couple other operations.
[12:48]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	lol, Braydon
[12:48]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	An offset amount you can set would be better than collision, performance-wise, I think.
[12:48]	Nyx Linden 	one step at a time indeed Braydon :)
[12:49]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	The viewer generally uses only one for rendering and the like.
[12:49]	Nyx Linden 	most of the heavy lifting is on the main thread, yes.
[12:50]	Tiberious Neruda 	...so you're better off using one core for SL and the other for other things?
[12:50]	Rusalka Writer 	My poor CPU is 89% idle. So am I.
[12:50]	Voodoo Radek 	/me have the fx aswell
[12:50]	Nyx Linden 	also Ashasekayi had a question: "I haven't been able to log in to the JIRA system for a week. Who would I contact to fix it? Ashasekayi Ra 12:16, 27 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:51]	Voodoo Radek 	Oh! i had that problem with the JIRA.. somehow its seems resolved to me now
[12:51]	Nyx Linden 	file a support ticket for that please - they will be able to take a look at your account and put everything back in order
[12:51]	ac14 Hutson 	looks like the jira bug claimed another :/
[12:51]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Ok, thanks Nyx
[12:53]	Tiberious Neruda 	o.o... that worked quite well
[12:53]	Tiberious Neruda 	(I can run a YouTube window and SL without stutters after changing affinities)
[12:55]	Ash Weststar (ash.qin) 	I am never google image searching 'deformed brains' again.
[12:56]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	LOL
[12:56]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	lol
[12:56]	„Ñ®∆∏ÃµÃ°Œ∑ (xen.zelnik)	eww lol
[12:56]	Voodoo Radek 	hehe
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer 	Good times.
[12:56]	Nyx Linden 	any other topics for today or are we just about wrapped up?
[12:56]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	a cage deformer for the brain
[12:56]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	lol
[12:57]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	well, what`s up that airplanes are all crashing?
[12:57]	Rusalka Writer 	Our deformities are driving Nyx away.
[12:57]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	SL Aviation group is in panic
[12:57]	Kennylex Luckless 	The standard avatar mesh get a broken tummy, is that something that need to be fixed before mesh deformers?
[12:57]	Rusalka Writer 	Crashing?
[12:57]	World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)	why should anyone bother with content creation if constant ar's of copybotting and extortion are going unheeded
[12:57]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	yes, crashing
[12:57]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	you fly a few sims and you crash
[12:57]	Rusalka Writer 	Yeeey.
[12:57]	World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)	and what is the proper office for complaints
[12:58]	Voodoo Radek 	Oh god
[12:58]	Rusalka Writer 	Oh, Falcon...
[12:58]	Tiberious Neruda 	oh look, LifeInBeta's back with his alt
[12:58]	Braydon Randt 	/me tries to catch his brain escaping , so standing on its flesh self .. and holds it still " see ....... "
[12:58]	World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)	i am not an alt
[12:58]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	this pathfinder update was really nasty
[12:58]	Nyx Linden 	next topic: "How does the current deformer do its job? (how does it operate) 3DOpifex Resident 12:57, 27 August 2012 (PDT)"
[12:58]	World Undercroft Sirnah (world.undercroft)	and i waited till the end to ask
[12:58]	Boyd Doghouse 	I always crashed them but I figured it was bad piloting
[12:58]	Tiberious Neruda 	....very similar phrasing
[12:59]	„Ñ®∆∏ÃµÃ°Œ∑ (xen.zelnik)	lol boyd
[12:59]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	Boyd: fly over two sims and crash right after isn`t normal
[12:59]	Nyx Linden 	the deformer is still under development, so there are still some hiccups, Qarl knows the internals of that system best, he is working with Oz Linden on the integration
[13:00]	Boyd Doghouse 	I'll have to try it
[13:00]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	The code for one of the Deformer versions is up on Karl's site.
[13:00]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	Boyd: go to Hollywood airport and talk with people there
[13:00]	Drongle McMahon 	Which will be first? Materials or deformer?
[13:00]	Nyx Linden 	in a nutshell, you upload a piece of clothing that is sized correctly for a particular avatar build, and it tries to resize the clothing to match the shape of the avatar that you give it to.
[13:01]	Tiberious Neruda 	materials, likely
[13:01]	Boyd Doghouse 	I'm very curious to see how regular users adjust to the deformer
[13:01]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	Boyd: the place is in my profile pics, it`s the airport in SL with more movement
[13:02]	beanster Potato 	3DOpifex: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1716?
[13:02]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad) 	personally I'd hope that the deformer comes first :p
[13:02]	JIRA-helper 	[#STORM-1716] Mesh Deformer for tailoring mesh clothing - Second Life Bug Tracker
[13:02]	Boyd Doghouse 	I'll go by
[13:02]	Boyd Doghouse 	I haven't been there in a while
[13:02]	Voodoo Radek 	I think i am out of the time.. but which qwill be the final avatar that the deformer will use? The one you create when you click a new shape? i have ear contradictions lately
[13:03]	Nyx Linden 	it should adjust to the avatar shape you are wearing at the time.
[13:03]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	3D... then the deformer takes the raw mesh and calc's a distance from the mesh to the Defualt Avatar at each vertex. It then uses the current avatar shape to figure new positions for each vertex in the mesh and applies that deformation.
[13:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	No it doesn;t #DO
[13:03]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*3DO
[13:03]	Voodoo Radek 	Yeah, but what model you should use to work in the thrid 3d program, lets say blender
[13:03]	Voodoo Radek 	‚òÜ ->~*~Partyyyyyyyyyy!!!!~*~ <- ‚òÜ
[13:03]	Voodoo Radek 	<<<~*~* P.A.R.T.Y.A.L.A.R.M. *~*~>>>
[13:03]	Voodoo Radek 	‚òÜ ->~*~Partyyyyyyyyyy!!!!~*~ <- ‚òÜ
[13:03]	Voodoo Radek 	<<<~*~* P.A.R.T.Y.A.L.A.R.M. *~*~>>>
[13:04]	Voodoo Radek 	Oups
[13:04]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi) 	o_O
[13:04]	Voodoo Radek 	Third party.. program
[13:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It doesn't take other rigged mesh into account..at all.
[13:05]	Nyx Linden 	doing it for a single piece of clothing is much easier than doing it for multiple layers :)
[13:05]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	YW, Karl is currently looking to see about using diferent begining avatars.... other than the default avatar shape. No word on how that is coming along.
[13:05]	Braydon Randt 	i have an out there idea .... lets get it to resize first
[13:05]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	i think that the rigged mesh clothes deformer should deform only the clothes and keep the AV shape out of it
[13:05]	Voodoo Radek 	Ok Nalates, thanks :]
[13:06]	Braydon Randt 	i appreciate customers being able to resize and vary wardrobes , but .. * chuckles* ...
[13:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	It does only deform the clothing.
[13:06]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	and what would be the standard shape for creating clothes?Ruth?
[13:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Right now, it used the default female or default male.
[13:06]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	*uses
[13:06]	Typhaon Nishi 	which ever shape(s) it is there should be some kind of standard
[13:07]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	i am imagining myself creating a brilliant outfit but fitting in a supermodel shape like ruth
[13:07]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	JR, Karl's last version of the deformer used the 'Default Shape' if you want way more details on that look at: http://blog.nalates.net/2012/05/20/second-life-mesh-clothes-blender-2-6-setup-2012-tutorial/
[13:07]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	that¬¥s bot good work that way in RL 3D having a shape like the one of ruth
[13:07]	Nyx Linden 	alright, mind if we wrap up here for the week?
[13:07]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	things can`t come out elegant
[13:07]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	works for me
[13:07]	Tiberious Neruda 	yay for -still- having fouled-up UVs thanks to all the extra chest geometry....
[13:08]	Voodoo Radek 	Thank you so much Nyx, guys
[13:08]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra) 	Thanks for the meeting Nyx
[13:08]	Voodoo Radek 	For answering me
[13:08]	Nal (nalates.urriah) 	Thx Nyx
[13:08]	Nyx Linden 	thanks for coming out everyone, see you next week!
[13:08]	Rusalka Writer 	Aloha!
[13:08]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	i understood, Nal, i understood :(
[13:08]	Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell) 	Thank you, Nyx.
[13:08]	jr (jr4201.kruyschek) 	ty, Nyx
[13:08]	Kennylex Luckless 	I need formulate question before
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