H.I. No. 48: Grumpy About Art

"H.I. #48: Grumpy About Art" is the 48th episode of Hello Internet, released on September 29, 2015.
==Official Description==
Grey & Brady discuss: Brady has been naughty, the holy crusade to bring hotstoppers to all Starbucks UK locations (CLICK HERE), Brady still doesn't like the Apple Watch, things flying first class, the continuing drama in the New Zealand flag referendum, cool things to own and (maybe) display, the law of large numbers and Hello Internet, the bi-weekly weigh in, and a field trip to Dismaland.
==Show Notes==
Every time I'm editing me, I always think, who is this idiot talking and why does he sound so much like me? // So Brady, you have been up to some nautiness since we last spoke. Yeah, I cannot tell a lie. What have you been doing? Well, after you gave me official approval for the reunion swamp pen to become the official bird of our podcast and the Jamaican rice rat to become the official rice rat of our podcast, did I give you official permission or did I just not stop you? Oh, well, I don't know. I can't really lie because people would just go back and listen to it so. But anyway, I believe they have become official. So I did get up to a little bit of nautiness and I created the official t-shirts of the reunion swamp pen and the Jamaican rice rat for Hello Internet fans and made a little page where people could buy them. Now, I want to be clear here. I did this behind your back, but I didn't then like go live with it without telling you. I then at the very last minute sort of said, great, I've done something. Right. And you're like, oh no. You're walking up to me shuffling your feet, holding something behind your back. Yeah. You then present to me, which is the designs for the reunion swamp pen and the rice rat t-shirts. Jamaican rice rat. Jamaican rice rat. Oh, sorry. The Jamaican rice rat. Because there are other rice rats, but the Jamaican rice rat is their official rice rat. I wouldn't want the people to get confused, of course. No, exactly. So these t-shirts are currently available. There's one of these counter deadline things on it that people have to buy them. So, but hopefully by the time you put this podcast up, there still will be some days left. So if you would like a Jamaican rice rat or a reunion swamp pen, official hello internet t-shirt, and how could you not want one, to be honest? How could you not want? Have you bought one? I haven't bought a Jamaican rice rat t-shirt yet. No, that hasn't happened yet. I like that you're saying yet. Yeah, you think I need to leave the door open for that? You wear all sorts of promotional t-shirts given to you by your mates. Why would you not wear one of these? Do I? Do I wear all sorts of promotional t-shirts? I think you're confusing me with Derek Averitasium. No, you recorded the last podcast in the Minute Physics t-shirt. I remember saying you went out. Henry did sneakily leave behind a Minute Physics t-shirt when he visited me here in London. And it has been making its way in the rotation for my wardrobe. I'm not wearing shirts all the time. I'm no Derek. So currently the reunion swamp pen is outselling the Jamaican rice rat. Does that surprise you? I mean, it's a rice rat. I'm not surprised that a hen is outselling a rice rat. A hen sounds nicer. Are they different colors? I forget. I only looked at them the one time. They just shook my head in disappointment. They both come in gray, of course. The official color of all of internet. That I will give you. That I will give you. But the Jamaican rice rat also comes in blue and the reunion swamp pen also comes in red. Oh, okay. And there are man designs and lady designs available. You sure you could buy two of each one for you and one for someone else of the opposite gender, you know? There you go, people. How good is that for a sales pitch? How could you not want one? I don't know how one could not want. The unofficial official hen and rice rat of the Hello Internet podcast. I would say it's the official unofficial official shirt myself. It's official in the sense that the Hello Internet corporation is going to be making money off of these t-shirts. It's going towards your shard, fund. I'm surprised you're not talking it up. Yes, it's official Hello Internet merchandise that I'm sure will haunt us at all public gatherings from now until the rest of time. And as I said in the sales description for the rice rat shirt, it may be extinct, but it will live forever on this t-shirt, buy it, wear it, and tweet gray a picture of it. No, don't tweet gray a picture of it. That's perfectly okay. You don't need to tweet me. You can tweet a picture of yourself, hashtag neverforget JamaicanRiceRat, but you don't need to include me on that one. I think a few of them enough will say that you could handle a few tweets. We'll see. We'll see how it goes after the podcast goes up. One of the happiest moments of my life will be the first time you are asked to sign a reunion swamp-pain shirt. Oh yeah, will you enjoy that? Will that be funny to you? You'll be like, oh my god. I'm signing a reunion swamp-pain t-shirt. All this does is just confirm what I knew about you, Brady, which is that I give you an inch, and you haven't taken a mile. You've taken miles and miles. Astronomical units. You should be admiring my entrepreneurial spirit. I'm very admirous of how many things you get done. I can absolutely assure you any profits made from this will not be in any way equivalent to the amount of time. I've spent on this thinking about it. And enjoying it. It's the joke of it that warms your heart. It's the joke of it, but the joke is funnier than more that sell. So, just one of those things. I seem self-serving, but I will go along with it. I mean, if I could put all the profits towards bringing back the Jamaican rice rat, well, but I'm afraid. If only. That ship was sold. I was listening to a podcast the other day about someone who's trying to bring back woolly mammoths, magnificent gigantic woolly mammoths. That would be amazing. But maybe you can really sell someone on the Jamaican rice rat revival project instead. You said it. So, as the charismatic megafauna people want to bring back. They're so charming. There's charismatic megafauna. I tell you what, we're not doing that corner this week, but if we were going to be doing things Brady was obsessed with as a kid corner, the woolly mammoth could definitely be on that one. Love myself some woolly mammoth action. Bet you do your little caveman. Yeah. Do you have a woolly mammoth buddy growing up? I can't tell if you have any naughty or not. So, let's move on. Swiss Army knives. They're cool, aren't they? They are very cool. They are very cool. We talked about how cool they were last time. And for people who aren't familiar with them, in my mind, and I think most people's minds, the iconic color of a Swiss Army knife is red. Yeah, that's what's in my mind is red and the white logo on it. Exactly. So, we heard from a member of the Swiss Army in the last episode. And I sort of put the question out there, do you get given Swiss Army knives and other handles red? It was only afterwards that occurred to me, maybe red handles wouldn't be the best for a member of the military. I guess if you're hiding in the jungles of Switzerland, they may, they may stand out. I'm not sure, but or the watch boutiques of Switzerland, wherever you happen to be serving. One or the other. Yeah. I think one's more likely, and it's not the jungle. Here's an email, great. This comes from Andreas. Hi Brady. I spent a short stint in the Swiss Armed Forces as a driver with the signal core. Indeed, we get issued with a Swiss Army knife, but not the iconic red one. It is a rather dull aluminium model. See the attached picture of my own knife. However, since 2008, those knives aren't issued anymore by the Army. A different one is used. See the Wikipedia page. The new model is a bit larger, can be opened with one hand, and the blade is locked in the open position. I think it's funny how the English-speaking world associates the knife with the Swiss Army. We just call it Sac Mesa, which means pocket knife. We associate it with Switzerland in general, not the Army. It is considered an object of cultural value. There is a common saying, a proper Swiss always has a pocket knife on him. There you go. Red. Not as standard as you might think. Red is not standard. Looks good in red though. You want a useful multi-tool to be immediately identifiable if you have a bag full of gear. Red is for the terrorists, maybe. I mean, my original one was red. Having said that, my current Susabi knife has a blue handle. Actually. Here it is in my hand now. This is podcasting gold this moment. I always love that you have so many things within reach of where you're sitting. We need to wherever the conversation goes, Brady within an arm's length has an object related to it. Okay, everyone, get ready. This is going to be the click of me opening my Susabi knife. And I give permission for people to use this as their ringtone. It's a bit like the old iPhone on lock sound. There we go. We're cracking through the follow-up. But I have a feeling we're about to get bogged down now. So we enter the world of hotstoppers. I have much Starbucks follow-up. You want to hear about hotstoppers, Brady? I'm just so excited if I have the word hotstoppers. Got traction so quickly. With your help as well, like normally, you're so resistant to my made-up words. Resistant to your terrible made-up words. But hotstoppers is great. It's fun to say. And it's roughly descriptive. So that's why I'm on board immediately. Here's the thing, Brady. When your ideas are good, I like them right away. And when they're bad, I'm resistant to them. But you eventually come round to the bad ones as well. You wear me down over the weeks and months with your bad ideas, repeated often enough. That it's a bit like brainwashing. And you think, I guess free booting does sound all right. I can accept that word. Do you know what the funny thing about hotstoppers is? And don't get me wrong, I love the word and we will continue using it. Is when I found out what the real name for these things were, that's a brilliant word as well. What's the real word? Splash sticks. Splash sticks? Yeah. I would say I like hotstoppers way better. Yeah. So here's my follow-up from this. There was much tweeting on the day the podcast went out about the hotstoppers. Hang on a second, Gray. Hang on a second. What? Before you get on your high horse and talk about how there was much tweeting, you spoon-fed people this, didn't you? Oh, yeah. You are responsible for most of this. You created this auto tweet where if people just looked at their screen the wrong way, they accidentally tweeted something to Starbucks about the issue. Oh, yeah. I was totally trying to rile up a Lynch mob here, Brady. I'm not going to deny this at all. Because I want my hotstoppers. And if I can foment an angry mob with torches and pitchforks to storm Starbucks UK headquarters to make hotstoppers happen, I'm going to do it. I'm going to totally abuse my power. There's no denial here. I will stir this up before forever. The feedback that came out was some people were saying, oh, we do have hotstoppers in our Starbucks. And so I believe it was the one in Nottingham. Indeed, the University of Nottingham Starbucks apparently does supply hotstoppers to its patrons. Yet another reason to go to the University of Nottingham. I will give that as a 100% legitimate reason to consider the University of Nottingham above other places in the United Kingdom to study. Put that in your league table, say. From better yet, put it on your application form. Why do you want to come to our university? I hear there are hotstoppers in the Starbucks. They could have like the front page of the University of Nottingham prospector, so it's a student having a Starbucks with a great big hotstopper in it. Hmm, impressive. Who could say no? Nobody. While I was trying to rabble rouse and foment internet anger about this, this entirely trivial issue that is deeply important to me and just me, maybe. Pret was getting in on the action, which is another coffee company here in the UK. If I saw their opportunity, exactly. They were tweeting up a storm about, oh, we have hotstoppers. And I was trying to delicately blackmail Starbucks because I actually went out that morning for a coffee and I thought, oh, let me check and see. And I went to Pret and I confirmed, oh, yes, I ordered a filter coffee here at Pret. They give me a hotstopper. And so I sent this passive aggressive tweet to Starbucks UK about how like, oh, I got my morning coffee from Pret today and they have a lovely hotstopper. Your move Starbucks. And Starbucks was very quiet all day long. And as I'm sure some PR person was trying to figure out what the hell is going on here. What's a hotstopper? Yeah, exactly. Oh, it's that free booding guy again, isn't it? Yeah. Out of context, who knows what's happening. And then eventually they sent a tweet to me which I think was attempting to play keep me but it just enraged me even further. Which was they said, oh, we do have hotstoppers but they are in the drive-through Starbucks here in the UK. We don't have them in the regular Starbucks stores. Starbucks, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Gray, who does not have a car. It's not just that I don't have a car. When they sent that, I immediately, I hit the little reply button on Twitter and I must have typed out 20 different things to send back. And I kept erasing and trying to rewrite it and thinking like, how do I explain? How do I explain in a single tweet? How you have infuriated me even more? Because now I know that there isn't as you were suggesting last time. Perhaps some dumb EU choking regulation that's preventing hotstoppers from entering the UK. There might be some corporate policy. Oh no, there's no reason for it. It's just totally arbitrary. Now we're using hotstoppers in a situation where it is useful. And so it's just some arbitrary, arbitrary decision. And it's just, I, I, there are hotstoppers to be had, but not for me, not at my Starbucks. And I find this doubly infuriating. Now, now I'm angrier when I go to Starbucks, as opposed to when I just thought, oh, they're not in the UK. So listen to me, angry mob, this is not over. Keep the tweets coming towards Starbucks. I am so serious about this. If the Hello Internet podcast accomplishes this change, I think it will be the greatest thing this podcast has ever done. Really? Hotstoppers in the UK. Greater than free birdie? By greatest thing ever done, I really mean greatest thing for me. Okay. And for free birdie, I mean the greatest thing for me. So I mean, obviously, I know that charity money we raised. Yeah, I know. Whatever, African penguin, penguin, penguin. Yeah, Stephen, penguin's lives. Listen, sometimes I spill coffee on myself. Although I did notice sort of the the equivalent population of a small African nation did tweet you to say, you realize you can buy these things online for yourself. Ah, so other things that were infuriating me about the hotstopper, debacle on the internet. Hotstop a gate as it's become now. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Is a million versions of two suggestions from people, both of which I find infuriating. One, you know that you can buy these on the internet and just keep them with you all the time. This I just find maddening. Who wants to keep track of this kind of thing? Oh, I want to make sure that I always have some hotstoppers in my pockets or in my bags with me all the time. No, not me. I'm not going to do this. And besides, it's the kind of thing where it's going to be down in your coffee. So you need to make sure that it's relatively clean. Like I can't just throw it in my bag with all the other junk. This is no good. And it adds to this cognitive load of like, oh, I have to think in advance for this thing that should just be a trivial convenience. It's like a restaurant that just didn't have napkins. And they're like, oh, just remember to bring your own napkins. You know what? No, I'm not going to remember to bring my own napkins. You're supposed to supply this. This is the way this is supposed to work. You're talking about hotstoppers like they're a fundamental human right, though. But it's so infuriating for you to just tell them. I kind of understand because there's nothing I hate more than when my wife spills coffee in my car. It's been of a thing between us. Like she knows when she gets in my car with a coffee. She's like, don't worry, I won't spill it because the smell of coffee, I mean, you know how I feel about the smell of coffee. I do know. So I mean, that's obviously where the pressure came to bear for the drive-through hotstoppers. We just need to bring similar pressure to bear for the on-foot community. The other thing was this variation on a piece of advice that I get all the time from people across a wide variety of activities that I also find infuriating. And it is some variation of, oh, just be more careful. People who are telling me, oh, just walk more carefully with your coffee. Why don't you pay more attention when you're walking with coffee? And always someone so proud of themselves, I walk with coffee every day. And I've never spilled a drop of coffee on myself. Why can't you accomplish the same thing? Okay, listen, people. The point of civilization is to be able to accomplish a greater number of things without having to think about the details. That's what the path of civilization is. And so if I want to walk with coffee and not have to think constantly, oh, don't jiggle it, don't bump into anything, don't rotate your hand slightly too much, that's not progress. That's, especially, there's a solution available for this. And I just find the, just be more careful thing, absolutely infuriating. And in my mind, the iconic moment of this sort of advice was, several years ago, my wife and I had a friend staying over. And this was just after Apple had introduced the brand new MagSafe adapters for their laptops. And we had gotten a new laptop with one of those MagSafe adapters. And the friend dismissed it immediately. She goes, oh, that's dumb. Why don't you just be careful around your laptop? Why don't you just never trip over the court? People who think that just drive me crazy, it's like their anti-progress. You want problems in the world. You want problems that people can solve in easy ways so that we never have to think about a thing ever again. I just, ah, just be more careful, just infuriates me as a solution. It absolutely infuriates me. Why should gravy more careful when we can just as easily produce a piece of plastic that will never disintegrate and probably get stuck in the mouth of some poor little penguin chick in the ocean? Exactly. Exactly, Brady. Hello, Internet. In our last fracture sponsorship, CGP Grey told a story that will be shared for generations to come. A story of heartbreak, a story of triumph, and a special moment between a mother and son. Grey's generosity and fracture gift of a picture of me and Audrey was indeed a selfless act. He wanted nothing in return, but I'm not going to lie. It moved me. And I feel compelled to reward his kindness. And for that reason, I've been in touch with the people at fracture and arranged a very special print just for Grey. And although I've not yet seen it in person because it's still all the way over in America, they have sent me a photo from the fractory floor. They do call it the fractory floor. And I can confirm it is a thing of beauty. Now I know what you're wondering. What is it? What picture has Brady uploaded to fracture to be ingeniously printed onto the back of a single piece of glass? What image among the the billions in existence could be worthy of a place on Grey's wall? And I think, maybe by now, you know the answer. That's right. It's the reunion swamp pen. It may be gone forever, but it has now been immortalized on glass. And if you'd like to see the people at fracture, displaying this masterpiece of old-fashioned art combined with modern printing techniques, simply take a look in the show notes. I'll put a picture there. And I think there's a fair chance. It will inspire you to fracture a picture, perhaps for your family and friends. If so, go to fractureme.com and use the offer code Hello Internet when you check out. And that will get you 15% off your order. You really can't beat these as the perfect photographic gifts. They've got everything. They've got the personal touch of a photo you've chosen, but the professional finish of a print that's already to go ready to hang on the wall. It's also a super easy process to upload and order your pictures. Seriously, check them out. Go to fractureme.com and remember to use the offer code Hello Internet for that 15% discount. It'll also let fracture know you're a supporter of the podcast. Don't leave your best pictures or pictures of your favourite extinct animals sitting on your phone or computer. Put them on show. There's nothing better than being surrounded by pictures. And you can do it really easily and brilliantly with our friends at fracture. Our thanks to them for supporting Hello Internet. Well, you tweeted today the picture of sort of your... It made it sound like, okay, I finally decided on what face I want on my Apple Watch and you shared that with the world. And it just does my head in. Yeah, why does it do your head in? Do you not realise these look silly? It feels like I think probably set it before. It's like Emperor's New Clothes. I feel like you're walking down Oxford Street naked saying to everyone, look at my amazing robes, everyone. And I feel like shouting, grey, you're not wearing amazing robes. You're naked. So you feel that my wrist is naked when I'm wearing an Apple Watch? No, it's not naked. I just feel like I need to slap you and say, grey, that doesn't look good enough. You're cooler than that. Do you think I am cooler than my Apple Watch? Particularly, yes. I don't want to suggest you're cool. Right. I know either of us are cool. That would not be a good suggestion. No. I have been many things in my life. Cool is not one of them. Yeah, I don't know. And I know a lot of people who listen have Apple Watches unlike them and I don't want to. And I know I've talked about it enough, but it just doesn't look that good. I was thinking about it, you know, I've spoken about all these things before and it's a personal taste and I understand all the good things about the Apple Watch. I think I've figured out what the problem is for today, at least. The Apple Watch lacks sophistication. That's what it lacks. To help me, I was sort of grappling with this thinking heck. I don't even understand what I'm thinking. So what I did was I looked up the officer of sophisticated and sophistication and one of the words that was suggested was unrefined. And I think maybe that's what the Apple Watch is suffering from in some ways because it's so new, it hasn't been through a process of refinement. And for once, the thing it's up against, as opposed to just a computer from 10 years ago or 20 years ago or a mobile phone from 10 years ago, the thing it's up against is something that has been through many, many, many iterations of refinement. And therefore, when you compare it, you're comparing a newborn that just hasn't quite figured out what it is yet versus something that has figured out what it is and has got a very definite place in the world and a very definite style and a look that's kind of evolved. And I think maybe that's the problem because one of the things people say and one of the things I thought when I look at the picture of it on your wrist that you tweeted today is childlike. That fits in with what I just said. It's a newborn and it still hasn't quite figured out what it is and it looks like a child. I think that you are right in the way that Apple is going up against this established industry. So for example, a thing that we will talk about later is that I recently saw your watch collection in person. Yeah. You have some very fine watches and the watches span a length of time from your oldest to your newest. Like they've been created over, I mean, guess, a 60 year timeframe from your oldest one to your newest one. Is that about right? Yeah, guys. Yeah. So it is definitely an industry that has been around for quite a while. And one of the reasons why, since you may not be aware that I happened to be tweeting about the Apple Watch today is that Apple just recently released their new version of the software for the Apple Watch, which allows you to change a few of the things on the face, primarily that if you have applications installed on your watch, they can use the little what Apple calls complication slots to display information. So on the Apple Watch face, normally you have the watches in the center and there's four slots around the edge where you can put stuff, the weather, how many to do's you have left this kind of thing. And Apple having done this to me has actually made the watch a little bit more frustrating to use because when it first came out, you didn't have very many options about what you could do. And this is them opening the door a little bit into customized ability. And it highlights the limitations with the designs that Apple has selected. I don't think they have a great selection of built-in watch faces and the watch faces that they do have are extremely limiting in various ways. So I think this is why I've been talking to a bunch of people about the Apple Watch and everybody feels the same kind of frustration about the fact that you can't change it more to look better. And that's one of the reasons why I was I was tweeting the thing that I did because my feeling was I have settled on this, but I'm not super happy with this. Like this is not the ultimate way that I want this to look, but this is what I have decided is the way to make it look the best right now. So that's one of the reasons why I was I was tweeting that and I would definitely, definitely look forward to more refinement in the design on the Apple Watch. And in particular, like Apple let other companies sell watch faces for people. Like there are ways to make this look better. These five Johnny I've selected designs that you have built in, which are really only two practically usable faces is not even remotely enough. That's why I feel this frustration too of this like unrefinement is a good way to put it. Was there anything interesting in the feedback that you solicited from people? Because you wanted everybody to pile on my terrible watch design. Well, no, I didn't want to hear what other people thought good and bad. So I did get people to email me. At my new email address that people should also use for corners like what people do when listening corner, which is what is that address message for Brady at gmail.com. That's the best one to send to if you want to get something read out on the podcast because my other email address is you're very likely just to get going missing. And that's the one I check before the podcast. So message for Brady number four. So people did email me today there about your watch. I would say overall the feedback I got which turns out I haven't printed out was 6040 or 7030 against. And some people said they did like it a lot and a very jealous of your watch. My favorite comment was someone just saying you know analog is better than fake analog which I think is you know often my point having fake digital hands moving around pretending to be analog will always be something that baffles me and I understand that time moves in a circle and it's easier to read the time in this way and stuff like that but we've already had this discussion. But the one thing that came up a few times even from people that did like your watch face is the green seconds hand they did they are perplexed by that. I tried to take a picture of how the watch looks when you're actually wearing it because Apple has this thing where you do the screenshot and it looks kind of funny. It's very hard to get a picture of how it looks when you're really wearing it. I picked the green because to my eye that's very clear. It's also a bit of like I don't think any of the other colors that Apple has are good or to me they're they're hard to visually pick out and so this is one of the reasons why I like the green. But the second is that I have always been a fan of the old fashioned look of computers that I grew up with which is just green phosphorus on a black background. That color combination is I think just because of the way I grew up a very attractive color combination to me. So that's one of the reasons why I I like that. I don't think there are any other options but even if Apple came out with better colors I'd probably stick with the green but that's just that is totally a personal aesthetic that I have always really liked that color combination for. Computer-y stuff and so the whole watch that I have is black and then that little bit of green is the only color. So I like it but I can completely understand that that would not be the color selection for probably the vast majority of people who would be using it. They need to open the floodgates a bit don't they and just let people with bad taste express their bad taste and people with good taste make the what shine better. Yeah they really do. I was even trying to think this morning like how much money would I be willing to pay for custom watch faces. Apple this is just your profit for you and there's got to be a huge amount of demand for it and even when they open it up they always open it up in in this frustrating way and so with the most recent update now people can put pictures as the background of their watch which I feel like oh god here we go like this is the beginning of people's watches looking terrible because there's going to be like a baby face taking up the whole watch but even when Apple lets you do that is like oh if you want to use a picture of your baby for the watch well we're deciding that the only way you're going to do that is the time is always going to be in the upper right it's going to be small and you can have nothing else on the watch like we're allowing you customization but it feels like we're doing it resentfully like we really rather not have you putting this custom wallpaper here so we're going to make the only watch that lets you customize it be as inconvenient to actually use day to day as possible thanks Johnny I've just sent you a link okay I'm looking at this link that you've sent me I thought this was interesting little story you have sent me a link about the magnet carder flying first class to New York on British Airways yeah so they're obviously one of the 24 original magnet carders is going on display so it's going on the plane from from the UK obviously this is just British Airways doing bit of a publicity stunt saying look we flew at first class because that's how well we took care of things I read in the article that the magnet carder has a price tag of 24 million pounds do you think it's just a publicity stunt yeah of course yeah you think maybe it's not related to security that they want to have someone sitting next to the magnet carder the whole time yeah and then yeah you have them in first class so that they're isolated like how else would you ship it yeah but then why you don't have to make that point they probably fly prisoners first class as well for the same reason but they don't really have to put a press release out every time they do it well I mean because nobody nobody cares about prisoners but people do care about the magnet carder and it's funny to think about the magnet carder sitting there in the first class seat exactly funny publicity they knew it would get attention this is by the part but you're saying but you're just saying you're saying it as though they'd have it down in the cargo hold if it wasn't a publicity stunt and I don't think so I think it'd be flying first class anyway that's not what I was saying but you know having having all the British Airway stuff holding it next to a first class seat okay they're allowed to they're allowed to get publicity that's not my point my point is I know that you want to talk about the price tag but the first class is so much more interesting to me well like the 24 million pounds you know where does that number come from the people I think they're just pulling a number out of the air this is the point that is more than I think it's worth do you think the magnet carder would sell for 24 million pounds here's the thing if you put it up for auction who knows how much these things go for at auction yeah I just it just needs to Russian oil barons doesn't it yeah that's exactly right like the the auction is by no means any indicator of the actual value of a thing bill gates just spent a couple years ago like a ridiculous sum of money for was like one of Leonardo's notebooks or something I can't remember what it was I think it might have been the codex Lecester so like bill gates buys this thing and then people say oh it's worth X number of dollars it's like well good luck trying to resell that I don't think it's these numbers mean anything they just want to come up with some gigantic number that says oh the magnet carder is worth this amount of of money yeah it's not meaningful I think objects like this it is correct to use the word priceless not priceless in the sense of infinitely valuable but priceless in the sense of it is impossible to put a meaningful number on the value of them irreplaceable and if it's something irreplaceable then it's priceless isn't it I don't know about that go on then why is that not the case you're just spraying this on me but I feel that there there's a case to be made for things irreplaceable things are not intrinsically priceless but I can think of nothing off the top of my head we will leave it for the reddit I mean I could argue both as well you could argue both sides of anything so don't bother arguing with me I just said it anyway the thing the thing that was more interesting to me about this whole first class thing was I remember you telling me you know we have this ongoing discussion about you being willing to wait weeks and weeks and weeks for a flight yep worth it on standby yeah because of that because of that sweet sweets was it three sweets you used when you talked about how much how good you knited first class was that sweet first class you tell them you how wonderful it was so anyway I looked at this article where they rated first class cabins on different airlines oh man first class cabins on different airlines are so variable even within an airline they are hugely variable hugely variable well on this list that I'm looking at you know today airlines global first 24th out of 24 so you enjoy that sweet sweet first class there bottom of the pile after you've waited four weeks to get on it bottom of the pile compared to other people's first class cabins not bottom of the pile compared to economy well this is the relevant point here Brady it's like oh you spent a week at the 24th best luxury hotel in the world oh poor you it must have been terrible no it was amazing right because it's a luxury hotel it's the 24th best in the world yeah but the thing you leave out of that story is the three weeks you spent in the slums of Calcutta waiting to get in the hotel by the slums of Calcutta do you mean the two weeks that I spent extra visiting with my family over the summer in entirely comfortable conditions no I made Washington Delos Airport there's always Delos whether it's economy or not there's always Delos so that doesn't make any difference your parents same lovely this is my whole point staying in additional two weeks no burden on me flying first class glorious it was a totally reasonable trade off to make and I think you're just grumpy that you didn't fly first class I think that's all this is I wouldn't want to fly in the 24th best I want to fly in the best yeah remember that the next time you're sitting in an economy cabin somewhere I'll uh what was the best by the way it's got to be like Singapore Airlines yeah Singapore Singapore has I've seen the little promo video for it it's amazing yeah the couples sweet in the middle it's just it's astounding that you have basically a very small hotel room in the middle of the Singapore Airlines flights I flew Singapore Airlines to Singapore everyone oh yeah first class did you find it was no but I wish I did because oh not first class because when we got there no because I wanted to actually fly on a certain date and I wasn't willing to just go on the whim of the airline about when I could fly right right it turns out when we when we when we did get there that uh Prince William and Kate Middleton had been in first class on that plane I thought that was quite a nice in terms of VIPs on your plane that's a pretty good one that's pretty good one future king not impressed and I am I mean I'm not impressed in the sense of I mean you didn't do anything to accomplish that you were just on the plane with them I'm sure they take plane rides all the time yeah I'm not impressed by you are flying on the same flight with royalty if if that's what you're asking me I think it's interesting okay but I'm not impressed by your ability to be on a human transportation device with other humans some of whom are notable uh sorry Brady stand by rules stand by does not rule stand by is a price you are paying for something you want it's not like it's not like they said here here would you like this first class ticket for the day you're flying and you know no no no no no no no I like the randomness of stand by I don't want to know when I'm gonna when I'm gonna fly you of all people mr. control and wants everything the way he wants it you sometimes Brady you just got to live live life on the edge now and it's and it's worth it okay mr. spotter you know what you're always telling me yeah I didn't realize you were listening I'm just I'm just doing the Brady thing in this scenario in reaping all the rewards continuing with hello internet the official podcast of the New Zealand flag referendum I've got to say Brady there is just mounting evidence that the hello internet podcast is the decisive factor in the New Zealand flag referendum we speak they act I don't know what they're doing in New Zealand but whatever it is they are certainly feeding our god complex because I I feel like all I have to do is just merely suggest something about the New Zealand flag referendum and it is tomorrow's headlines exactly so for those of you listening to the podcast the relevant piece of information is that immediately after on the podcast we discussed the red peak flag as the fifth contender I mean within 24 hours the New Zealand government capitulated and has added red peak to the official shortlist so that New Zealanders can vote on it in the referendum to decide what is going to go against the New Zealand flag eventually it's obvious it's obvious that we are very influential in New Zealand I mean that's always been the case historically and this is just bearing that out but but getting back to the actual politics of what's going on here this is craziness I mean you said on the podcast you who favors red peak said there was a snowball chance in hell that it would be added and they added it and and that wasn't you big stupid you were exactly right there was no way they should have done this it seems insane for them to have done this just on the whim of the people I am all for responsive government the rest is nonetheless like there were a bunch of rules that were laid out for how this thing is going to go and then at the last minute they they want to change up the rules I want to be really clear here I am glad that red peak is being included on this list but it it seems kind of crazy like like the New Zealand government has has has made has issued a statement saying we're happy to negotiate with terrorists yeah that's what this sounds like to me I mean what's going to happen are they going to have the final vote and then if someone doesn't like it they're going to overturn the referendum because of a hashtag or something I mean yeah this is crazy great red peak equals government week that is the new slogan of this oh burn but no seriously it's like how spineless that a pig bunch of people signed an online petition and they just said all right we'll chuck that one in as well and this one was red peak even in the long list that's an interesting question I don't I don't know if it even wasn't a long list it's crazy look it up now oh no okay it actually was on the long list it actually wasn't a long list when I saw people saying that it's been added I thought oh surely this is just a joke this can't possibly be real when I realized that it was real my immediate thought was oh so I guess it would be fun to organize an internet outrage campaign to get another one on the referendum right where does it stop so I mean if they're at least going to stick with the with the 40 ones or the 39 ones that were on that long list I'd say hey let's let's start an internet outrage campaign over the one that I think is probably the worst choice is to go with that blackjack flag that I mentioned last time which has the New Zealand style union jack in the corner let's go right we're gonna I'm gonna start an internet angry angry mob against Starbucks well what's the prime minister's Twitter like let's let's start a campaign for blackjack this thing it just encourages this kind of rabble rousey behavior and I find myself just almost unable to resist the notion of going all in on a totally fake outrage campaign for including the blackjack flag it's just it's craziness it's I feel like this whole New Zealand flag referendum like it's amateur hour over a New Zealanders start it so well I mean I don't know why I'm upset because I'm an Australian I should just be laughing and enjoying this debacle of New Zealand people's bailout but I feel sorry for them you know it has been amazing because this thing which feels like it should have been a kind of boring bureaucratic process has been spitting out a surprising amount of drama over a long period so I texted my mate in New Zealand the other days on my best friends I said to him what do you think about the flags then he just replied one sentence we fought two world wars under the one we've got let's stick with it there's always an argument for tradition I know there is you know I'm not saying it's a good argument I'm not saying it's an argument that makes any kind of rational sense there's certainly a portion of the population that is susceptible to things have always been this way let's not change them the problem with red peak and I understand this is because I understand I already know all the things you're going to say and everyone's going to say and this and that this is true of every flag including the United States flag when it was new but the problem with red peak is a week ago if you'd shown it to me I would have had no idea what it was or where it was from it doesn't it doesn't speak to me of New Zealand the way obvious obvious Fern does I just think they've overthought it I think they've had I think they've had 30 years knowing that their next flag is going to be black with a silver Fern on it and they've gotten so used to it that when the time has come for them just to sign on the dotted line they've had this crazy case of cold feet and gone no let's do something really crazy and spontaneous like just do what you're supposed to do I know you feel that way I am still going to back what I have seen online referred to as the hypno flag the black and white coru spiral which I absolutely love has a name for it the black and white Fern thing I can totally understand that I'm going to say this thing which which I hope has the effect of scuttling the black and white flag option that they have which is someone pointed out to me this thing that I now cannot unsee and I want to spread this like a mind virus which is that the black and white Fern has this weird almost 3d effect to it if you think about the white pedals of the Fern which are the vertical ones as though it's a row of bushes and then the black pedals on the other side are the shadows being cast by those bushes or like it's a picket fence and the shadows and I cannot unsee that now that I have heard it and it would cause me to not vote for that option I just I can't deal with that once I've seen it cannot unsee so I want to spread this out New Zealand and I'm only assuming as soon as the podcast goes live within 24 hours they're going to pull that flag I mean if history history tells us anything it's that black and white Fern your days are numbered as soon as this goes live I tell you what I don't like the black and white flag either that much but I but it's the only black and white one they've got it's the it's the black and white Fern one yeah it's yeah it's the it you can keep your fans they do have hypno flag breeding all hell hypno flag I tell you what there's this they're crazy down there in New Zealand have you seen all all the anti red peak that started now the first the first one I saw was someone someone was saying the thing I like about it is whenever you're opposed to anything obviously the first thing you do is conjure up Hitler and Nazis because that's just that's just how to win any argument all right and the so the first article I saw about red peak was this is the same logo that like the Gestapo used on their checkpoints and I was thinking oh that's insane they can't use a Gestapo checkpoints symbol as their flag and then I went and looked at the picture and it was just like of a whole Gestapo hut they just like cropped one little section of it in a certain way to show sort of part of what red peak looks like it was pretty tenuous they were trying to make it look like that and then the other one was someone saying that if you hold it in a certain way it makes like a schwa sticker and that's true if you get four flags and put them all together in a certain orientation and sort of you know dislocate your wrist to hold them at the right angle you can indeed make a schwa sticker out of four red peak flags and if you sort of squint and turn your head in the right direction so oh man they're having fun down there you got it you got to say they're having fun at least they're talking flags and that's a good thing I now feel this the same kind of feeling there's like childish delight of things going awry it's not you don't feel like really proud of this feeling as a human being but it is sometimes just irresistible and I was like how can there be more trouble like how can we stir up some trouble it's all because they let in the additional flag right it was it was just businesses normal and then as soon as you show you're willing to capitulate in some way it's like oh you open the flood doors my friend it is over they're really marked this one up anyway we'll be back next episode with with more in fact just go onto your news website now there's probably stories are probably breaking already live as this podcast is transmitted blackjack forever we'd like to thank audible.com for supporting the podcast now you know who they are they're pretty much the ultimate repository of all the best audiobooks and other spoken materials on the web now I want to tell you about a book I've been well part listening to this week it's one that gray recommended in a recent episode it's the Golden Compass by Philip Pullman this is book one of the his dark materials series what makes this book especially noteworthy is that it's a cast recording different characters are voiced by different actors now my wife loves this series and because she has a long drive to and from work each day she really mows through the audiobooks she'd actually just finished one and was wondering what to try next I said to her look I know you don't listen to the podcast but if you did you'd know that gray recommended your beloved golden compass she immediately downloaded it now I mentioned she listens on her drive to and from work but she also listens to audiobooks around the house when I'm around so I've heard many sections of this one of course I missed those hour long chunks when she drives to work but I already know the story so that's okay in my case now when I first heard the cast recording I must admit I found it a little strange I wasn't sure if it was for me or not but I'd say within 10 to 20 minutes I was totally loving it this book really does lend it self to the format because of the numerous voices and personalities all through the story it would almost seem wrong to have it all read by one person in some ways now the absolute highlight is the guy who does the big armored polar bear I'm not going to embarrass myself by trying to pronounce his name but boy that guy has a cool voice if he did a podcast it would take over the world every time he comes on I say oh man this guy's voice it's amazing highlighted the book but another brilliant thing is that Philip Pullman himself the author is the main narrator I'm amazed by that he is a seriously professional quality book reader I rarely used to be a teacher which may go somewhere to explaining it anyway that's my audible recommendation this week the golden compass by Philip Pullman super story great recording but no matter what you're into audible's going to have something for you why don't you give them a go that's audible dot com slash hello internet when you sign on with audible you get your first audiobook for free and I think there's a fair chance after listening to when you're going to be hooked it's a really great service I use it myself and if you do give them a go if you use that URL audible dot com slash hello internet that's how they know you came from the podcast and it keeps us in their good books I guess that should be their good audio they good audiobooks I don't know anyway you know what I mean and our thanks to audible for supporting the podcast just a quick just a quicky just because it's a today new story at the time we're recording so it's like a weak old for the people listening or potentially a year old depending on when you're listening yeah is that how podcast work no I know it's it's funny that isn't it there was a auction today I believe it was in London of movie memorabilia one of the items that only half jokingly I was talking with uh with our friend Matt Parker about maybe we should go halves and buy I think he was serious and I wasn't unserious was the sports almanac prop from the back to the future movies oh nice hey now that would be a cool thing it would be it would be like Matt was basically saying does anyone want to chip in with me for it and I kind of replied saying ha ha yeah I'll do it like that's a cool thing and made a few jokes but I was half hoping he'd get back to me and say seriously we should do this but you know what I think he was thinking the same thing without admitting it because he followed the auction live and I think he may have bid because then he then said to me he texted me later and said I didn't get the almanac were you the other person like I think he thought I was bidding against him what did it go for in the end it went for it actually went for about four thousand seven hundred pounds I think it's not crazy numbers yes to expensive I can't buy that but it's no magnet carday is what I'm saying no that would you would fly that economy yeah yeah that's exactly right you just put that in the pouch in front of your next to the safety card yeah but I'm I'm just thinking if I was if I was an eccentric millionaire with a big house I might I might bid on that sports almanac prop and have it framed somewhere in the house like that is that's cool enough like I really like that as a as an object and it's a fun prop because it's so pivotal to the movie as well it's not just it's not just oh here's an item that's iconic from the movie but that everybody uses it's like it that's like the sports almanac moves the plot so I I could definitely see a displaying that in the house I'm half regretting that we didn't all get together and try and pitch in for it now if we got like I but if we're pitching in for it I wouldn't want to share it with you and Matt Parker and frankly a third of four thousand pounds is more than I would be willing to actually pay for it I wouldn't go in on that and we'd have to rotate it between houses is terrible well it could have just been like an investment we could have put it in a safety deposit box and oh and then none of us appreciate it it's just it's an investment is like well I have actual investments to invest in and it's opposed to something like that it's it's not a you couldn't sell that to me as an investment vehicle the whole thing about it is it's cool investment vehicles aren't cool are you sounding like my wife now do you mean reasonable do you mean reasonable and opposing you is that what you mean saying I'm saying like your wife opposing me and making perfect sense yeah when you're sitting at the kitchen table trying to pitch marty McFly sports almanac as an investment opportunity and she's thinking no that's not a good idea no she was supported but the thing is I I have this incredible collection of framed autographed astronaut photographs and they're currently sitting in this huge locked box in a whole other city and she's always saying and I like I spent a fortune on it over the years putting together this collection but I'm too scared to put it on the walls because I don't want the sunlight to fade all the photos and because you know it's got all the men that walked on the moon autographed and stuff like that and she's like you're going to get them out and enjoy them it's silly having them in a box I mean she she doesn't like the look of them anyway I think she's quite happy not having them in the house but for my sake she says you should put them in your office or something because they mean so much to you and and I'm like oh no I don't want to ruin them or have anything happen to them and we were discussing this on my visit I'm with your wife on this one you should display at least some of them every day Brady every day you are one step closer to the grave and your inability to enjoy those photographs why not put them up on the walls and enjoy them while you can something is seriously wrong in my life when I'm being given seize the moment advice from CGP Gray well it's just this to me is just the it's just the worst aspects of having things you're just a hoarder at this state break like that's all you are you're just hoarding signed photographs of astronauts when you're telling the story just for the listeners here when I visited you at your house you showed me a trunk full of photographs that wasn't even the good stuff Gray but this is but this is what I mean now when you're telling me this story it's like oh there are other trunks in other cities with more photographs in them you already showed me what I thought was an ungodly number of photographs so you're just you're just a hoarder and you're not even enjoying it that's that's why I'm telling you put them on your walls I'm a hoarder I'm a collector you okay I mean you're not a hoarder in the sense of I'm to walk into your office I didn't have to walk by stacks and stacks of a signed astronaut photographs up to the walls in every direction but you you say collector but I'm going to say hoarder because you're just not enjoying the things you this this is why I'm telling you put them out in your office frame them have them up so that you can enjoy them and if the sunlight fades 10 of your precious photographs like well you have enjoyed them while they are up there are other ways to enjoy things other than having them like directly in front of your eyeballs by the way yeah I mean I guess if if you enjoy the notion that you have locked them all the way in your hoarder boxes and stash them in caches around the world in different cities like I mean I guess if that brings you pleasure you go right ahead you go right ahead and do that but then I never want to hear again your comments about your regrets and your worries about hanging them up you're conflicted about this that's why I'm I'm trying to help you through this conflict put them on the walls I'm telling you to decorate you should do it I could make a lovely little museum in my second office couldn't I like a little displaying where people could come in at my yeah you totally could we discuss this possibility I really wish that you would do it but you're not you're just gonna hoard them forever and then you're gonna die and they'll look just as good on your deathbed as they did the day that you got them the end the end of Brady you remember in the last podcast we spoke about car crashes and you spoke about your car crash we had and I kid you not a listener who had a car crash as that section of the podcast started and I would listening to it and that uh okay this is the weird thing about about the numbers with the podcast that I have I have a hard time I have a hard time thinking about yeah when we were having that discussion this thought actually passed through my mind really it did passed through my mind it's not like the videos where we make where you have a pretty good sense of where is someone when they're watching one of your YouTube videos the answer is they are banking off from work and watching one of your videos if the analytics are anything to go by 90 percent of the traffic comes from people during work hours at work procrastinating this is what the whole YouTube economy is built on yeah but the podcast they they go out in the world and people are doing different things yeah and I mean I was taking a look at our at our analytics uh the other day and we can roughly say that that we might have like a quarter million downloads in episode now podcast analytics are always crazy but I think that's that's fair to say that that's what the episodes get and so there's just like the whole realm of human experience is potentially out there happening when people are listening to the show just because the numbers are are that big yeah and so you're not a so you're not as surprised as I would have thought but that's because you're a smart guy and you've already thought it through I'm not surprised but it's a little weird to get confirmation of a thing that has crossed my mind I mean here's the morbid part of it has someone died listening to the podcast in the car crash because you're not going to hear from them or just died at all just don't don't take this responsibility too seriously Brady but we might very well have been the last two human voices that someone heard it just chills me thinking about that wow you've really gone with this one great no but you're quite dismissive I wonder it's just it's been on my mind it's been on my mind in a way that I find unsettling but so let's hear the details of this before I give you the details of this car crash one of the other times it's not as dramatic but it's always a reminder that the audience is reasonably large is that every time a new podcast comes out someone will tweet or send a message saying oh this is brilliant it's like you've put it out for my birthday it's my birthday today and there's a new podcast out and then like 10 minutes later someone else does and then 10 minutes later someone else does and there's all these people saying oh wow it's my birthday and there's a new podcast out and you begin to think oh wow what a lucky coincidence and then it's like actually that's not very surprising this is where I'm a terrible human being because every time I see one of those comments on the Reddit or on Twitter again I'll hit reply and then I'll always think why are you going to reply and say the thing that you're going to say just close the reply box there's no point to saying this because I always wanted to say you know we didn't make it for you right happy birthday but it's not for you there's no reason to say that that person knows that you know they know it yeah but I just I have this literal response every time I see those kind of comments and I feel like I want to correct the person be like I'm happy this is a nice coincidence for you but it wasn't for you buddy it's just your birthday it's always about 700 other people whose birthday is also listening to the podcast happy birthday to everybody who's birthday it is today happy birthday to you whenever you're listening tweet Gray don't tweet Gray so let me tell you about this car crash this is Nicholas he's in IhiO he's a grad student Brady brackets and gray I love how you're always the brackets you won't believe this but I was listening to your podcast and I was one hour and 10 minutes in in some diversion about a guy getting through being in a car crash when I myself was in a car crash a lady was coming the opposite direction from me took a left turn in her Jeep across the incoming lanes and right in front of my Honda record thankfully no one was hurt I thought you might not believe this Gray so I emailed back Nicholas and I said can you send me a bit more evidence and I tell you what Nicholas delivered the goods because he came back to me with multiple pictures of the crash saying the police report number and the card given to him by the police officer the name and badge number of the police officer who attended the scene his insurance claim for number and a copy of the insurance claim and and he then also proceeded to go into incredible detail trying to recount exactly what part of the podcast he was at with the crash and he was telling me about how when I was putting the rubbish out I remember you were talking about this and I specifically remember as I was driving down this road you were talking about that reddit user called Zazoxia and like he went through oh so I think it's the real deal I like this guy the only way this could be more confirmed is if he had sent you dash cam footage of the accident with audio where you could hear on the speaker system us happily chatting about a car crash while a car crash happens yeah there's the only way this could possibly be more confirmed I mean this is more confirmed than the fighter jet guy right he could have sent us like a copy of that day's paper like stained with his blood and that of the victim anyway yeah so there you go and an actual car crash while listening to the podcast and listening to the start of the section about car crashes it was just starting as as his crash happened not bad eh I mean it is bad well no it wasn't bad because no one was her and it wasn't his fault drive safely people here's one other what people do while listening this comes from thea thea is 15 and her dad Richard is 48 hi I and my father are both enthusiastic listeners to hello internet in fact if they listen together grey does that mean we're only getting one download but two listeners yes that does me that that's worth no not not that anyone's doing anything wrong I'm just I'm just think you know thinking about stats I always think that when someone sends me a photo of a classroom watching my videos I think oh that's 30 views counted as one yeah if all of them had watched it you would be up one one thousandth of a set for a long time he is joked about being similar to grey very organized physics teacher who does it for the long holidays loves apple I'm more of a Brady file nice you so file there that's good that's good I look after the family dogs I love astronomy especially your deep sky videos public service broadcasting has suddenly become my favorite band recently inspired by the podcast we started doing our own family weight loss competition seeing as we aren't the healthiest part of this includes running while listening to the podcast I am currently winning thank you for a thank you for a brilliant and entertaining podcast and I thought that lovely message from thea would be a nice lead into the biweekly way in you know it sounds happy Brady I haven't I haven't actually know I did wait I haven't my weight hasn't changed I did wait myself this morning I just remembered so you you are like me last week with a with a null change null you have a spoiler though you already knew the answer to how much I've lost don't you know I don't I am following graybot from one of my accounts but I haven't looked at that account in the last at the right time to see what's going on well Brady you will never look at that account at the right time because I wake up at times you don't believe exist normally I am weighing myself looking at the track record here usually somewhere around like 645 in the morning so I think that misses you by many hours I sometimes get up to the order out for a wee at that time so maybe I'll go right back to bed check okay don't go back for the lot yeah don't check Twitter don't check Twitter just go back to bed so this week I am down 4.4 pounds wow and it hasn't even been two weeks yeah it's two kilograms for the metricly minded it is well yeah because we're recording this recently after the last podcast went up but one two three four five six seven eight nine ten it's been ten days since the last measurements gray that's brilliant you smashed it my it's gone pretty well turns out when you feel like a bunch of people are watching you you change your behavior now I am not willing to categorize this as an as an unmitigated win because I mean even five pounds like people's weight can fluctuate between five pounds yeah you know it is not like losing 15 pounds we feel like oh okay I've definitely done something and I know from personally experience that this range that I am moving between which is about in pounds is about two 10 to two 15 like this is always the range in which I normally bounce so I don't feel incredibly confident about this yet but it feels like okay this is this is in the good this is in a good direction well I mean for we know just before the when you went into the giant poo well I'm stalling here because I'm thinking like how much detail should we go in I'm just staying silent because I wanted to see what you'd say yeah do not edit that you have to keep all that in just like uh uh I guess we might we might as well go into the details but yes that was my brain fritzing out for a moment seriously don't go into details if that that was a joke I don't want to know when you did what we can just say that I have a no poo before weighing rule I decided this right from the beginning that I basically get up and I weigh myself that there's there's no trying to mess with the numbers by I like how you were like oh koi about it look you're like look I don't want to go into any details but let me just say I have a no poo before weighing rule which is pretty much all the details I guess it is but with this stuff you have to be consistent you have to be consistent yeah yeah and you know you can't always deliver on on those kind of expectations so I figured this is the more consistent approach yeah is just get up just way and I'm hoping that that keeps down daily fluctuations but even even the data that I have here like you can see there's there's if you're weighing yourself every day there's there's up and down fluctuations so that's why it's the trend line it's the trend line that matters yeah but the only comment that I really wanted to have on this was it has been an interesting 10 days because I have been very strictly following my plan for food which is basically eliminating carbohydrates in the form of things like pasta and breads or cereals or anything like that and mainly focusing on on eating more things more proteins like eggs and tuna and also things like salads and stuff and in the past when I have done this stuff I have almost always failed relatively quickly because I find myself in this really low energy state of like oh okay my body is unhappy now with this sudden change why is there no ice cream to eat while we're watching TV like oh this is disappointing that's what my stomach is thinking yeah and so I have found that the the gray Twitter help health bot has been helpful in not breaking the food rules here so that is where it has been useful for me but again I don't I'm not counting on that working long term I just think it's interesting that this has been a long stretch where I have been completely consistent without a doubt if this has made me think of the light bulbs conversation we had way back at the beginning of the podcast about how there are these four dials in your life which are health friends work and family I have been so aware that while this has been a very conscious turning up of the health light bulb the work light bulb has gone way down like I can just sense that I am so much low energy I have gotten so little done in the past 10 days compared to what I normally do and it's like it's just I feel like this is just this reconformation that like okay maybe I'll eventually readjust and and kind of get back to a regular level but for the moment when things are different and I'm finding myself having to concentrate on the fact that things are different that I can't just mindlessly grab whatever I want to eat is like well there's always a cost to this stuff and the cost is work that work has gone way down so I feel like I have been relatively unproductive these past 10 days but for the moment I am willing to make that trade off with health versus work because the energy's got to come from somewhere great if you're if you're so lacking in energy that it's affecting your work I would argue that you're not being particularly healthy I think you're just basically starving yourself so you can lose weight no I'm not starving I'm not starving because I mean well you should have enough energy to work I'm not a big fan of following particular things but or particular schedules but roughly speaking I'm doing some kind of version of what's called slow carb or keto which is are these diets and reading through them I found that it is very common that people describe feeling that this kind of I've heard it's seen like slow carb flu where you just feel really really low energy as your body chemistry is readjusting that this is just kind of normal for people but the whole point of these diets is that you're not depriving yourself of amounts of food like you can eat as much as you want as long as you're not eating pastas and breads and so at no point in this time have I felt hungry like if there's plenty of things that I can eat so it is definitely not a starving myself thing but it is a just a feeling like a low low energy thing but I'm not interested in starving no I'm not not not suggesting like you're doing something you know silly but I'm just saying you should have enough energy to work and I think if your diet is not is making you feel low energy and is affecting your day-to-day life then I don't think you're doing it right you're saying that I'm not working which is not the case well I'm just saying I'm working at maybe 50% capacity there's this is a big difference between like if if the diet was so severe that all I was doing was laying around incapable of doing anything at all it's like yeah I would agree Brady that turning the health light bulb to 100% and turning everything else down to zero is not a good decision right no matter how much you want to get healthy but I'm just saying that the health light bulb is at like 50% work light bulb is 25% and family and friends are getting the rest of what's left over that that's where I am right well I'm saying and I'm I'm sounding like my wife again here but what I'm saying is is obviously what you're doing is not sustainable and what you should be doing is implementing a health and diet regime that is sustainable for the rest of your life that has you at like a weight you're happy with and a level of health you're happy with and an energy level you're happy with and if you're like trading off here and doing sort of horse trading and thinking okay I'm not going to work very well for the next few weeks because I want to get to white X that's not obviously that's not sustainable and fair enough if you want to implement something that's not sustainable that's a perfectly legitimate thing to do but and there are reasons to do it it's like you don't believe in transition costs Brady I always find these conversations really interesting with you if this feeling of being low energy continues indefinitely then I would totally adjust the way I'm doing things yeah however I'm willing to undergo the assumption that the first time I am doing something that the first several weeks of doing that thing might be harder than normal and might require taking energy from other places yeah but great this is like your modus operandar and it's mine too so I'm the same as you so this is a criticism of me too you know you can use your fancy terms and talk to me about trade off costs and things like that but what you're doing with your weight is what you do with other things in your life and that is you binge you're a binge worker you take it really easy for two or three weeks and then you like don't sleep for four days to put a video out and and this is this is the way you work and now you're doing the exact same thing with your health you're like a binge being healthy and what you probably should be thinking about and what I should be thinking about and what I'm constantly told to think about as well it's just implementing an overall plan that doesn't require three weeks of 75% light bulb followed by two weeks of 8% light bulb and 9% light bulb and then three days of crazy work and then five days of video games you should just have like a balance where all your light bulbs just humming away at the level they should be humming it and not be constantly switching one up full blast and then switching one down and you know am I crazy I don't think you're crazy I don't remember our light bulb conversation well enough two years on now for whatever we had it but I feel like we're revisiting the same thing where your notion is like oh just make every light bulb bright and and my feeling is that's not possible no no no no no not make them bright make them decide what they're going to be make them all 25% no no and there can be minor tweaking but what I'm saying is you practically you turn them right up and right down I think you fluctuate too much you binge when you put a video out do you not do two or three days of just crazy work working these kind of 20 hour days to put a video out and then you and then you stop and have a couple of days off is that not binge behavior I totally agree with you that when I put the video out I usually have two to four depending on the length of the video days of nonstop work that definitely happens but the thing is I just feel like you you then you then assume that it means oh I've done nothing for three weeks and it's all happened in those last couple of weeks like we have talked many times about how that's a particular phase that I actually think happens faster in this mode but it's not as though I'm sitting around going and like oh family and friends they get all my time and attention for three weeks and then like oh sh** there's a video like let me turn the dial to 100% for work and then like oh crap now I just need 100% relaxation time it's not the experience the experience of my life there are definitely bursts when I work more but do you know what what I think it is I actually think it is what you do okay and I know I can't know because like I haven't got security cameras in your house but but the but the growing body of evidence I get is you say it's balanced and I say I don't believe you I didn't I didn't you again you're putting words in my mouth I don't say that it's balanced your proposition here is that the knobs swing they're 100% and everything else is zero or they're nothing okay well not nothing but when it's an animation weekend without a doubt the work is out of balance and this is the thing that I am constantly trying to fight against and claw back but overall like I am very happy with the relative balances in my life and it's just that the health thing has reached a tipping point where it's like okay this really really super needs to happen dude like you need to fix this and so I'm dedicating more attention to that and willing to accept the trade off that it means that my workout put will be less it seems all very reasonable to me Brady when you say it and measured tones and say it's reasonable it sounds reasonable doesn't it though but I but I think the reality is different okay you know you know you you go you go away for five weeks like I know people have holidays but you just like say all right I'm going away for five weeks I'm not working for five weeks and I'm having this fellow period and then I'm gonna go and do this and well again I'm I have to stop you right there because yes I did have a six week vacation over the summer but during that vacation I didn't work on any videos but I still put out eight podcasts while I was on holiday like it's it's not as though there's nothing happening no no there was a cortex every week during that holiday and then we did two hello internet we did right so that's eight podcasts over the six week period don't you paint your story of CGP Gray sitting on a beach in Hawaii doing nothing for six weeks and then suddenly remember like oh maybe I need to do something this is the CGP Gray in your mind it's not the CGP Gray that I am and you and you absolutely refute my accusation that you exhibit some binge behavior I already agreed with you that I exhibit binge behavior in animation weekends before videos go out okay without a doubt I completely agree with you there all right well whatever whatever you've done well that's that's that is like fluctuations or no fluctuations and pose or no pose two kilograms is nothing to be sneezed at no pose hello internet it's time for the sponsor that everyone needs that's right it's backblaze.com the cloud backup service for your data now we were talking before about how there are frankly so many listeners of the hello internet podcast that disaster can strike at any moment to any one of you and one of the many random disasters that can happen in a large group of people is of course computer failure and data loss and I know for a fact that this has happened to several people who listen to the podcasts because I've heard about them on Twitter now under normal circumstances if your hard drive fails well there goes all of your hard work or all of your memories or all of your video files that you have collected over the years gone lost to the digital ether but not if you sign up for backblaze I've heard from at Anthony underscore Stewart on Twitter who mentioned that they signed up for backblaze and we're lucky that they did because their hard drive crashed and backblaze sent them replacement through the mail did you know the backblaze does that if you have a lot of data and you don't want to wait for to download they'll send you a hard drive and you know who had a lot of data a dobson comics who told me that if he hadn't signed up for backblaze through the podcast he would have lost 360 gigabytes of data 360 gigabytes of data it's crushing to think of that kind of loss and it could happen to you dear listener almost certainly someone out there who is listening to me right now who doesn't have backblaze your hard drive is going to fail within the next week so if you don't have backblaze on your computer do yourself a favor go to backblaze.com slash hello internet and sign up right now it's really easy you'll just get a little program that runs in the background and automatically keeps an eye on everything on your system eternally vigilant uploading all of your changes to the cloud to be protected and I know some of you listening to me don't have backblaze on your computer because backblaze keeps buying these ads that means every x weeks when the 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snippet okay so I've picked gray out from the train station and we've driven to the town of western super mayor on the Bristol channel we're looking across the Bristol channel at the moment towards Wales over the sea on other's Wales that's Wales over there yeah that is Wales I did not know you can see Cardiff is like the big city no not that way not more anyway oh is that so it's Cardiff right over there yeah see the buildings yeah that's Cardiff hello Wales all right anyway but we're not here because of Wales we're here we're distracted already we're distracted already so how how's your train trip from London it was very good very nice trip up you're not feeling uncomfortable being out of the big city I'm not feeling uncomfortable although your Wi-Fi or the internet is absolutely terrible up here I noticed the further I get from London the worse myself connection gets which is how I think of all these things but it's always nice taking a train trip all right well apologies about that yeah so we haven't we haven't got had a good look at dismal an yet which is our destination it's just over there in the distance but how would you just describe the weather for people suitably dismal it is suitably dismal it is very cloudy overhead it's very windy we are at the edge of this to me extraordinarily shallow beach which looks very brown and dismal today the water so yes everything is appropriate for the setting of dismaland what's the story here we went to dismaland dismal land oh is it dismal dismal land well no yeah you said it is probably more correct dismal land dismaland but then but then you lose the word dismal when you say it like that so I say dismal land okay well they should have written it differently if they want to people to pronounce it differently it looks like dismaland to me but it is a Banksy Art exhibition a sort of kind of theme park it's a it's a difficult thing to describe is it still actually there while we're recording this is a while we're recording it is but by the time this podcast goes out it probably will have ended it I think it was five weeks should we explain who Banksy is or do you think everyone knows who Banksy is I don't know how to explain Banksy well and I'm also not super familiar with him I think you have a much better sense of who he is so why don't you explain who Banksy is well Banksy is from Bristol so he's hometown hometown guy for me now and he is a street artist he sort of got his start doing well graffiti basically but very witty clever and artistically clever graffiti and he just became a bit of a phenomenon and now if something of yours gets Banksy if the front wall of your house gets a Banksy graffiti on it pretty much what you do the first thing you do is put up a huge protective thing so no one can touch it and then you sell that wall for a million dollars because anything Banksy touches or does is now highly sought after in the art community but he sort of has transcended just going and putting paintings on walls now and he does he does various exhibits and installations and curates things and but he's he's anonymous no one knows well a lot of people actually do know who he is but technically no one knows who he is what he looks like he's the sort of anonymous figure he has quite a striking style yeah one of the things that was going around in in London for a while was he was spray painting these rats in various locations doing various things all over the city yeah uh so Londoners might be familiar with having seen them all over the place and uh one of my favorite things that he did mainly because I get to enjoy the benefits of it now there's this building in London which is called the national theater which is done in what's called a brutalist style which is exactly what it sounds like big sheets of concrete everywhere kind of an ugly building and he one night spray painted in gigantic little letters boring across one of the very visible sides of this building it's on the south banks everybody can see it uh which I think was a little embarrassing for the theater and ever since then what they've done is they now have this rotating colored lights that display all over the building at nighttime and so every time I see it on the south bank I think oh thank you Banksy you have improved the skyline by embarrassing this building into trying to liven themselves up at night did they wash boring off the building I presume they did no one put up a big piece of glass over the boring and thought oh let's preserve this forever no no no they got rid of that very fast and then I think tried to protect themselves from further further banksyization so Americans also might be vaguely familiar with him now he's actually very big in America now he went and did a sort of a residency for lack of a better word in New York and basically blitzed New York for a month and every day some new piece of art slash graffiti slash whatever you call it was appearing somewhere else in New York and that caused a bit of a stir but coming back to dismal ad basically there's a there's a seaside town that we were talking about in the little clip people just heard it's just outside super mayor western super mayor yeah just outside Bristol and it's sort of one of these towns you get around Britain that well still is a real holiday destination but more and sort of a faded glory seaside town way now but I'm really fond of it and I live quite close to it I go there and walk the dogs sometimes and one of the things on the sea front there is a former Lido former sort of outdoor swimming complex that has been shut down for years and years and it's a desolate place and forever they've been talking about what's going to happen to this place are they're going to knock it down is someone going to buy is it going to get turned into anything because it's sort of yeah it was just a derelict building right well yeah it's sort of a but not so much a building because it's quite open because it was a swimming pool and stuff but yeah it has buildings to it and a big facade and it was four walls around a former swimming space yeah in some in some way that is a fair description so anyway about five weeks ago it was to suddenly announce to the sort of the day or two before it opened it did leak but it only leaked a couple of days before it opened it was revealed that Banksy had put together this sort of exhibition performance art whatever you want to call it in this Lido called Dismool Land and it was opening in a few days and people could start buying tickets tickets are really sought after and people came from around the world and everyone wanted to see it so we went along to it yes I actually went the day at first opened because because of some people I know I was able to get to get in and see it you're amazing contacts my amazing contacts yeah you know I'm I'm I'm I'm moving circles so so I had been before it was known to me and I've posted pictures of it and you probably saw me talk about it on Twitter if you're one of these sort of people and I was really keen for great to come and see it because I just wanted I want to know what he'd think of it and I thought it'd be good for the podcast so we went along there was a massive queue as there is every day but we got in actually here's another clip here's a clip after we first gone in and we're inside it's our first impressions okay I'm not going to lie we skipped the queue we used our influence and contacts to get in early we were first through the door and Grace just had his first sight of Dismouland he's looking at it now great first impressions this is a very interesting interesting looking place it is very run down looking there's a broken Disney palace style thing in front of us a slightly scary looking ride or to a police van that is stuck in the middle of a pond it is quite the thing to look at when you first come in but where you where you feeling the force pull you the castle I want to go right to the castle there's like central thing let's look at that all right let's do it so there you go so there you go we're inside and before we go to this castle that you may have heard Gray mention I think we need to better explain what this place is Gray and give a better idea of your first impression now that you've had more time to my lover how would you explain what Dismouland is to someone it's it's very hard to explain a few people have asked me about it since I was telling them that I went and I mean I've said that it's like an anti-Disneyland but that doesn't really capture it it's it's designed to feel like a depressing Disneyland maybe is the best way to put it so so things are run down when you walk on the inside and there's a castle that I mentioned in in that clip the castle looks really broken and run down and everything looks just kind of awful like there's there's posters up everywhere that are are torn to pieces it's deliberately crappy but it still has that theme park feel to it oh completely yeah when you're standing in a theme park and you think oh there's things around for me to look at and things to do and background music and Tano announcements and all those sort of things you associate with a theme park yeah so it creates this feeling of conflict where every other experience you've ever had an environment like this is like oh we're at the county fair and we're going to check out all these fun things or oh you know you're at Coney Island or we're going to do all of this stuff but here it's like oh yes there are many things for you to do all of them are kind of terrible or unenjoyable in some way or super depressing so that is dismaland I would say it is like it's kind of like an anti-themed park or a parody of a theme park or like the world's crappiest theme park 50% but the other 50% I think is more a parody in a commentary also on kind of British seaside amusement parks and amusement attractions so part of it's an obvious pocket Disney like the big castle the big crappy castle obviously looks like the Disney castle but falling to pieces and scorched and terrible and you see people with Mickey Mouse ears and things like that but there's also all the staff have Mickey Mouse ears on yeah but there's also a real parody of just general UK seaside amusement parks there are a few jokes there that I think are more aimed at aimed at that yeah see this is lost on me because I don't I don't have any experience of this yeah well you were asking me if I'm deeply familiar with British seaside towns and it was like I've been to Bristol you know which it doesn't really count in the eyes of many English people but is is one of my few forays outside the walls of London into yeah sorry the uprightness what I meant yeah see I don't even know yeah yeah so I said Bristol whatever called a seaside town but Broughton you would yeah thought it's London and then there's not London that's the UK yeah so anyway so anyway and but there's also a lot of quite sort of biting political satire and art shall we go into the castle then let's do it Gray we were the first thing we did was walked over this moat which is a really terrible muddy moat with rappers and it was the saddest looking thing you've ever seen into this castle and we were the first people of the day to walk into the castle because we were first people through the door we went inside and well he is another snippet come inside the castle with us Gray what are you looking at at the moment this is like one of the grimace things I have ever seen it is it's a big statue that's Cinderella in her pumpkin carriage that's been in a car accident Cinderella is leaning out and she's dead and there are statues of the paparazzi taking tons of pictures of her it is really really depressing like legitimately depressing on I had a show a guy good time this was just quite an introduction this really set the stage in some ways and was maximum emotional impact because it's like oh what's this interesting thing and then I picked the most depressing thing to explore first because it just called to me and yes this this piece of art which is this Cinderella carriage overturned with the paparazzi it's just awful it was just absolutely awful but awful because it fits in perfectly with all of my preconceptions about like what is the news like or what are industries that surround the news like and it was just it was just a home run on the emotional meter for like like just hit in the perfect way to really get to me it was a perfect sort of merger of I mean the obvious princess Diana thing and and the Disney imagery they kind of married them together it sort of said everything they wanted to say in just one one piece of art a lot of the art and installations at this place by the way aren't by Banksy himself he sort of has curated a lot of it and that I'm not sure if that once him I think someone else might have done that but it was a it I was surprised by how affected you were I maybe because I'm hard as Naya was I kind of look at that and just think oh yeah I see what you've done there that's very clever but you genuinely seem to affect it yeah well like I said it this just hits all of the right buttons and and to me it's like oh yeah of course you know like a tragic things happens and there's a whole industry around exploiting tragic things for profit and it just it was also just because it's a bit of a surprise like it just you don't have any idea what to expect and so when you just hear the description of the thing it's like oh okay and I have a little video clip of it that I'll put somewhere that you can see and and if you just look at it is like oh okay well whatever um but it's a different experience to come a cup to come upon a thing by surprise when you don't know what it is it's a bit like spoiler alerts right you have a different experience of a thing when you don't know what it is in advance because you go we had it's completely dark and you have no idea what's coming and then you sort of see the flashing light and you sort of walk or you start off behind it and you walk around to the front of it and then you're confronted by the the dead princess and the snapping cameras and yeah it's very well done because you can see the paparazzi but when the way you enter you don't have an appreciation for what the thing is until you walk around it and I think that's like that's part of the reason it's effective is is because like oh your curious too what is this thing that all these photographers are taking pictures of and then you come around the corner and it's like oh now I feel bad for being curious yeah right that's that's the way they have it set up and they also take your picture before you walk into this art exhibit like you pose together don't you like you and I you and I said I pose together we put our arms around each other and did a pose like they told us not now what was going on they say oh look to the side and smile and it's like oh okay well that's kind of weird I guess they want us to take an ironic picture where we're not looking at the camera whatever and I sort of forget about that but when you leave the castle they then do a Photoshop thing where they have the picture of the piece of artwork the paparazzi and they put you in the back looking like you're leaning over the paparazzi and smiling at this dead princess like oh thanks thanks dismaland well what a delightful souvenir you put one it was so well done I was like I want to remember this thing so yeah I bought one promptly took a picture of it so that I would actually have a copy that I would care about and then lost the original some point during the day ah no you should have given it to me I would have liked it I didn't lose it on purpose I just like it just disappeared I actually think it's in your car somewhere okay I'll have a look so anyway after that horrible start we basically started doing the rounds and looked at all the exhibits I mean this I don't know where to start talking about it the thing that surprised me most when I went there was how much stuff was there and how dense it was there was so much to see and look at and so many things that got you thinking or got your laughing or got you horrified were there any things you particularly wanted to bring out I was a little bit worried about you being there and having been there before because I thought oh you're just going to be bored and you're basically babysitting me on this day as I walk around from thing to thing but yes it's super dense the thing is everything has been constructed all of the posters up on the wall there's like hundreds of posters big posters tiny posters they've all been put there and so even if you were to try to say read everything that's around it would take you the whole day to read everything there's just so much stuff that is there so this introduction to dismaland with the dead princess was was quite the thing but then the rest of it is like oh okay this is much more like as we're moving from place to place it's individual art exhibits that are put on by different artists they're all they all have a similar theme it all has this same feeling of depressingness or like faux friendliness that's even more depressing or just weird like it all fits together as pieces but you could feel that okay some of this they're done by different artists and they're they're trying to get different kind of reactions out of you but yeah there's there's just it was just a ton of stuff it was hard to react to you on the day and I almost felt a little bit like when when we when we left I was almost really overwhelmed by the whole day it's like oh there's just so many things to look at and so many things to see we were originally actually thinking of recording something right after at your house and talking about it but I felt like I can't talk about it like there's just too much and I I feel like I need to process some of this stuff for later one of the things that I really noticed particularly the first time I went not as much the second time but still very much was how many people were taking photos of everything I was really struck like at one point I remember walking around and they'd be like you know a hundred people around me and it felt like every single one of them was looking at it all through their black rectangle taking taking photos it was a real interesting maybe I'm less used to that because sort of normally art gallery is you aren't supposed to take pictures but obviously photos so you can do whatever you want at this place I was amazed by how many people were just like running around snapping everything they could and maybe not just stopping and looking at stuff and and I was very guilty of that too to be honest but that was one of the things that really struck me from my day there was how much people were really keen just to go crazy photographing everything oh yeah and yeah we both took a bunch of pictures of things some of which I'll put in the show notes for people to see and you can't not but yes it does it does have a strange feeling of this is sort of an art gallery so I feel like I'm not supposed to take pictures but it's just also a crappy amusement park and so you're allowed to take pictures of absolutely everything you can just run around and do whatever you want I don't know if I don't know if this is almost too big to talk about here but it's going to this thing was a bit of this feeling of like what is art do you know what I mean don't stop me on that man were you looking at stuff and I feel like what is this experience that I'm having like what is actually going on here there's a huge number of human hours that had been put into this project this temporary project and I'm not exactly like what is art what's going on here what's happening and it's but it sounds like you've thought on this what do you think art is Brady well that that's not the sort of the way I was thinking of the question but to think of it and the way dismal and worked I guess the weird thing about dismal and was I don't want to sound all like you know art if I do about it but I guess where this is very interesting is normally when you look at art you're there as the viewer and the art is there to look at or if you go to a theme park you go as a person you jump on all the roller coasters and play the games and throw everything and whatever but this is did both didn't it you did interact with a lot of it there was an art gallery off to the side wait was a bit more traditional and where you went and looked at some clever art we'll talk about that in a minute probably but when you're out and about in the outdoors part it was weird because you sort of you didn't know which it was you didn't know whether this was a place for you to sort of have fun and interact with it and have amusements or whether or not you were supposed to be thinking like a lot of it was you were having the Mickey taken out of you in some ways without realizing it like one of my favorite little things there and you'll see some pictures of it because I've you know I'll put some of my pictures up as well but there was this thing called like a selfie hole and it was just like a wall where you could stick your head out right and then there and there was a separate hole for you to put your arm through with your mobile phone so you could take a selfie and it's like one of those things where you go to the seaside and you put your head through and there's like a painted body and it's funny because your heads on the painted body but the whole purpose of this blank white wall was just to take a selfie of yourself and there was just a and it just said selfie hole on it yes there was nothing on it at all yeah so it was it was obviously just a tremendous piss take of our sort of selfie culture and yet person after person after person including me was lining up there and then taking our selfies right and it was like ha ha aren't selfies crap and this is such a cutting clever way of taking the piss out of people who take selfies and yet I'm the person standing and at taking the selfie so it's like you became in many ways you became part of the art and that was one of the interesting things about it whether it was deliberate or not but it was so hard to get tickets for this thing and you had to go on the internet for hours and hours and sometimes the internet collapsed and then when you went there you had to queue for hours and hours to get in and it was such a miserable experience to get to go in and that was almost a comment on these amusement parks and theme parks self so everyone was saying oh Bengus he's a genius he's even making getting in dismal and we're all lining up like lemmings thinking haha yes he's so clever making us do this and we're standing in the lawn doing it like a bunch of idiots you see that's it well this is exactly the kind of thing where I feel like you get lost in this vortex when you talk about art oh yeah because because it's been like really though was that really part of the intention because there are I feel like there's these like these art glasses that people put on and then they lose their mind and everything seems like it's art yes oh this is art that is art the very fact that we're talking about the art is art and now that we're talking about talking about the art isn't that also art and you know what no at a certain point it's a line right and maybe it worked out really great and retroactively you can be like oh yes this was an intentionally part of the experience now maybe it was on purpose maybe it wasn't like I don't know but I don't know it's just like there's something here that just rubs me the really really the wrong way that's why like partly like I really and I am very glad that we went to dismaland I'm super happy to go up I enjoy the experience of going and seeing this thing like it's an interesting thing to do it's all kinds of new stuff I really like this but I just I've been mulling it over the past few days and just find myself like grumpy about art whenever I think about this thing in in this in this way um well you're putting me in a tough position great to argue against you because I'm normally the one taking your position because my wife's really into art and we go around art galleries and I'm normally the grumpy person saying either saying it's not art or saying this is ridiculous this is so easy I could have done this and made a million dollars and then my wife always says yeah but you didn't yeah but the yeah but you didn't is not a is not a counter argument no it works for her but I know I know what you mean I know what you mean but but here's it like the like the art world is just so arbitrary and who happens to be famous or who who doesn't happen to be famous famous for lots of people it's just the vicissitudes of of the social world and like what's the what's the guy we were talking about the one who's there tiny first Damien Hurst right okay so this is this is the guy with his his famous thing where he stuck a shark in a tank of formaldehyde and he became a famous artist and he had a few other pieces of artwork here and at one point okay so there was this piece of art that we're looking at that was a beach ball being blown above a bunch of knives like hovering above hovering above them 10 you know on a cushion of air will it fall on the knives and of course it never does yeah of course it never does right of course not and so we were looking at this thing and this is when you said to me like oh I think this is just this is just taking the piss right that this is this is Damien Hurst not being serious and I made a little note in my phone at that point is how would you know right how would you know if any of these pieces of art are the artist being serious or just making fun of the whole institution of art there's no way to know because in some way like there's nothing here like there's no objectiveness about this like that that's what makes art artists like this subjective interpretation but I also just find that really frustrating in some way of people looking at a piece of art and being like I think this is this is Damien Hurst's comment on Damien Hurst's own artwork it's like oh do you okay I think this is what Damien Hurst thinks heaven is like are you right am I right guess what none of us are right because we're just talking about things that are in our own mind and that's perfectly fine like when I when I was trying to sit down and think about like okay how would I define art the best I could come up with just walking around an hour ago being frustrated and irritated was I think of art is like something that is designed to provoke an emotional response in a person that's that's kind of what I came up with for like okay if I have to just rough it here what am I going to say artwork is that's that's what I'll say but that makes it just almost impossible to discuss on any level it's just so personal that it feels like conversations between people are almost meaningless kingpin can look at a painting that looks like a white wall of plaster and derive great meaning from it but everybody else looking at that just thinks oh it's a boring almost completely white painting and so I don't know I don't know where I'm going with this but I just there's something here which kind of irritates me if I think about it too much I think I want to reiterate I greatly enjoyed going to Disneyland right but yeah it's just I don't know it's like there's grain of sand in my mind that that just irritates me it bothers me I don't know I've done some interviews and videos over the years with various people who talk about art and particularly movies and quite often they'll talk to me about a modern film say the godfather or something you know they're talking about the directors trying to do this they're trying to make you think of this they're trying to get you to think of that and I've spoken to various people about various films in various bits of art and they're usually academics and they're very smart people and they know these films or these bits of art or these books back to front and they'll tell you all sorts of things that they think the artist or the director or the writer is trying to do and a question I often ask them is have you ever phoned or contacted the director and asked them what they were trying to convey and seriously they look at me like I just did a poo on their coffee table when I say that like it's like I've suggested the most shocking taboo thing and they always say oh no no that you they basically say that's not how we do things right it's it they react they react in this way because you are fundamentally attacking their livelihood right they might not consciously think about it that way but you know what you are yeah I mean obviously when the artist is dead there's a lot of room for this but quite often with contemporary stuff if you want to know what an artist do a director and and this whole thing with that they could then reply well it's often the director wants you to interpret it how you want to interpret it well okay fair enough they're in total to say that but they still must have had something in their head when they made it and that's what I want to find out well I wish I could think off the top of my head of an example but I know for a fact with my own videos I have had people leave comments on them saying about oh how clever this thing is that CGP graded to connect this to that and I read the comment and I think oh I didn't do that on purpose like this is just something someone's read into it but boy that sounds great like I'm gonna run with that sure yeah maybe I did this on purpose but it's not like it wasn't there and so I'm finding meaning I've got a bit of a tradition on number file sometimes I think I've mentioned you have of making the duration of the video relevant to so if I'm doing something about pie I might make the video three minutes 14 seconds long and because I did that a few times people now just see meaning everywhere when I and I don't I hardly ever do it and people look at a video and go oh I see what you did with the duration this time you deliberately made it half this number times the square root of this plus four oh genius I love how you always do that turned it into numerology here yeah it doesn't matter what it is yeah people are always going to be able to look at something and determine oh yes this is obviously numerically connected it's like well guess what you keep combining numbers you're going to come up with something that's real and I think that this is the same thing with art where it's like you know what if you look at something for long enough people will start telling themselves a story about the thing and the brilliance of the thing my feeling of the art is like what is my initial emotional response to this and if there is none well I've deemed this to me and it like a failure at a piece of artwork but that doesn't mean that it's a failure objectively because there is no objective here it's entirely about the reaction inside the person and I'm just looking I'm looking through some of the pictures from the day and there's one painting that we saw to talk about something that's bigly traditional art which I thought like oh okay this worked on me this got a little bit of an emotional response which was I don't remember if you saw it was off in the corner but it was a black and white painting of a forest where some lumberjacks had cut down the trees they've cut down a few of the trees everything in the painting is black and white except the painter has put blood on the top of the stumps and one of the trees in the foreground is cut in in half and there's blood on the inside of the tree and on the ground yeah I thought oh this to me is a successful piece of artwork I have an emotional reaction to this and it also makes me think about something in a in a very different way now I don't necessarily agree with what I am imagining is the artist intent but nonetheless as a piece of artwork it's like oh okay well done artist you provoked an emotional response through some kind of imagery but I'm sure lots of people could look at that painting and be like nah doesn't do anything for me I would say I'm a bit different to you I don't necessarily need an emotional I mean who well you know like you said who are we to say what's good or what's not not we are just as expert as anyone else's expert in this field okay because there is no expertise to be had it's just yeah subjective there is knowledge to be had and I admit I haven't got a lot of knowledge okay you can be an art history professor yeah and you can name a lot of people and dates yeah but I I just think there is there is no expertise to be had in the appreciation of art yeah I think maybe that's one of my fundamental irritations here is people claiming expertise in a field where there is none to be had well when you went to dismal and it was just you and me walking around and then we left there was no one sitting next to us telling us what was good and bad or what to think so I don't know why you're you know I know you enjoyed the day but I don't know what you're saying like this was just people putting a bunch of stuff there it was like three pounds to go and have a look virtually nothing and you could like it or not like it or laugh or be angry or whatever you could just not think anything or you could just go and have fun and go on the Ferris wheel and so oh yeah trust me the day the day was very enjoyable it would have been made vastly worse by an expert in art following us around telling us about things I'm just I'm just talking about like the broader the broader art community here let me tell you about the the two tests I apply to art to decide if I like it or not now at dismal and there were all these outdoor attractions and Ferris wheels and games and things like that and sandcastles and look at our pictures and you you'll see some of the stuff it's really interesting to look at but off to the side there was this more traditional art gallery with a few sculptures and paintings and it was in there that that's the more traditional conventional art there were two there were two things in there that I really liked and they both well they were probably about ten things and they're really liked but there were two I'll talk about because they passed my test for what I consider to be art that I really like now and those two tests are could I have thought of that could I have had that idea is it likely that I would have had that idea and if if it's and the the less likely it is that I would have had that idea the more highly I rate it so you know I mean obviously you know I'm a reasonably smart guy with a ginormous ego so I could probably think I could have any idea so I just say the less likely that I would have had the idea the more impressed I am and the second is if I did have that idea could I have executed it would I have had the skills or the patience or the time you know the ability to execute that idea successfully and if and the less likely that is the more highly I rate it and there were two things in particular that were there that scored reasonably highly one the first one particularly highly and I wish I had the artist name I don't I have got the dismal and program downstairs so it's a bit unforgivable that I'm not crediting the artist but we'll take care of that in show notes I think your name was Tim Tim that's it and and basically this was someone had the idea they obviously were looking at frozen food packaging and that obviously been looking at it for a while and obviously on frozen food packaging the food can look look look good or not look good but they always have little bits of green garnish don't they quite often they'll have some frozen lasagna and to make it look good on the box it'll have some little sprig of parsley or something and what this person did was they took dozens and dozens I don't know maybe even hundreds of boxes of frozen food empty boxes and they like they cut out all of these bits of garnish but they partly cut them out and then make them sit up off the box they let bent them up off the box like it was a little plant growing off the box and then they put them all into these plantar pots and they made this huge installation which looks like a whole bunch of potted plants of little bits of parsley and little bits of greenery growing up out of these pots but still attached to all the frozen food boxes so you could tell what they were all coming off I thought that was quite a good idea oh yeah and I thought it was brilliantly executed it looked amazing and I just set the looking at it and so that was one thing I looked at and thought good for you I don't know call it what you want I'm impressed by this thing and like it was one of the things I couldn't wait to show you because I was thought look at that gray I like that yeah you definitely wanted to show it to me yeah and this even this violates my already flimsy definition of art because this didn't evoke any emotional response in me I just thought like ah that's clever I like the look of this thing yeah yeah so the other one I quite liked uh you quite liked as well and I'm not going to steal your thunder but let's go to another one of our little audio clips so that people can hear us talking about about it in situ so we've been going through kind of the art exhibition part of dismal and there's like an area off to the side an art gallery full of paintings and sculptures and things and at the moment we're at this giant diorama of a of a city with this incredible police presence and there are blue lights flashing everywhere it's this kind of well how would you describe this gray I'm just getting distracted by the fact that there's someone doing graffiti of Maxwell's equations on the little board over here it's just very detailed but yes it is like a dystopian rundown city with police everywhere you would expect there to be modeled trains this looks like a model train setup but there are no trains there are just police there is a helicopter up there I'm assuming it's a police helicopter it is I think so it's pretty cool this isn't it it was a a little model town it was a huge model town it was nice to say I'm looking at this picture why did I use the word little it was huge it was in a big room it was uh I don't know maybe like six billiard tables in size roughly if I'm trying to think about like lining stuff off the putting it around that's probably a good a good analogy yeah yeah that's ballpark that's within 20 percent maybe of the size yeah but this was just a thing that I'm really liked the the setting of the room was really good with the room being really dark so all the light was coming from the little town itself and like a diorama basically wasn't it yeah I spent the most time just looking around this thing and examining all the little details of it this was probably my favorite in this sense of most enjoyable thing in dismaland favorite in terms of most effective was definitely the dead princess but in terms of like oh boy I could spend a lot of time looking at this I enjoyed the little town and what I liked was as you're looking around it becomes obvious that there's like there's the artist in their mind had some story of what's going on in this town so it's not just police cars everywhere but as you look around you can see oh okay there's there's action going on over here but there's guys in radiation suits over here moving mysterious containers and there's like a big pit in the ground the police are examining like there's some notion of a thing that is happening you get the idea like an unusual event has occurred in this town and all of the police are out in force and I really liked it I really liked it quite a lot yeah I mean there were like thousands of thousands of police in this town weren't there and they were basically the pervading thing is flashing blue lights so it does look like something like a apocalyptic doesn't it like it's pretty full on you did quite like it you were you were sort of you did have a little bit of schoolboy fascination didn't you for that one oh yeah I could have definitely spent way more time looking at that it's sort of a pivotal sort of train set builder in a soul isn't that yes it did and we happened to be talking about train sets on the way up so it was a nice nice coincidence for the day the reason I didn't spend more time looking at it brings me to one of my little bullet points about the day which is there was grumpy staff ushering us along this diorama yeah and all of the staff throughout dismaland were grumpy staff I deliberately grumpy yes this is on purpose rude and grumpy obviously this was this was the mandate this is what they were getting paid for is to be rude and grumpy and disrespectful to everybody who's there and while I would say this diorama was my favorite thing at dismaland the staff was by far and away my least favorite thing at dismaland but if we're talking about art it did provoke a strong emotional response from me which was a response of danger and I meant to mention this to you on the day but it just didn't come up that every time one of the staff spoke to me about anything I would for a second forget because I'm thinking oh I'm just dealing with a normal human being and then in about one second I'd realize oh no wait I'm not dealing with a normal human being I'm dealing with an actor I'm dealing with someone who is basically wearing a mask and a mask that gives them permission to do things that are outside of the social norms and every time one of these people spoke to me as soon as I remembered that it was like this emotional wall just slammed down in my brain and all of my hairs stood up on edge in the way of like you are a dangerous person because you are like a person wearing a mask and that makes people dangerous like I'm not really dealing with you I'm dealing with some artifice that you have created and it just made me think of the clowns in Cirque du Soleil which I have the same reaction to I'm like you are not a person you are like this dangerous thing with your mask and so I just I kept having these very very negative emotional feelings every time the staff spoke to me it was just I kept forgetting because they weren't visually wearing something like a clown costume or you know they like they just look like normal people but every time it was like oh right you are dangerous I need to be on the defensive around every single one of you staff because you cannot be trusted when you are humans acting out a role you're not humans acting as humans that's funny because I understand what you mean and there is a there is a degree of weariness but I almost felt the exact opposite like for me that it emboldens me and makes me feel oh you're a person I can play with because because there are no rules like I can be rude to you or I can make jokes with you I don't have to be careful with you like I get I get that there's a game and I can play this game too so I actually quite enjoyed the banter with them I enjoyed it not so much less probably less the day we went but the first day I went I quite enjoyed engaging with them and and playing the game and and maybe being rude back or maybe playing the bumbling fall back and things like that so I I understand why you would say that but I took something positive from it I again I wouldn't call it art but I enjoyed the game I enjoyed I enjoyed the playfulness certainly more than clowns clowns can't be a bit weird humans in masks are not to be trusted I guarantee you that if you had a sensor hooked up to me which was and adrenaline surge detector one second after a member of staff spoke to me that adrenaline surge detector would be going off every time without a doubt by the time we left it had gotten quite busy hadn't it Gray I wouldn't be went there it was like we almost had the place to ourselves and just as we were leaving that started ramming them in you actually had to queue up to see a few things but I think we got pretty lucky yeah we were incredibly lucky on the day and yes by the by the time we left it was just jam packed with people just genuinely genuinely a dismal land yeah anyway here's our last little bit of audio so I think we're kind of I think we're pretty much coming to the end of our visit this is probably going to be the last of our in situ recordings to go to go with our detailed analysis to come later oh okay so thoughts I'm very glad I came out to see it I'm very glad I came out to see it the last thing that we saw the little town was my favorite so I feel like we're leaving on a high because we started on one hell of a low with with the car wreck and the paparazzi so the little town which was like a little mystery about what has happened to this town a while the police were there that's the high I'm happy to leave on and I'm very glad that I came up to see this and then you bullied me into it pretty now we'll go and look at real western superman so there you go we then went to real western superman didn't we and walked along the pier it was all very romantic yes yes we had a we had a lovely a lovely day yeah went into a mirror maze together race to go carts yeah we raced go carts together it was it was very fun you had quite a crash well not that bad a crash you had a minor crash didn't you yeah I wouldn't say it was a crash really it was yeah well it cost you a position it did cost me a position you did very well in the go carting I no I just played it safe I just I just I just sat out in front didn't do anything I thought we would just have fun driving the go carts around but yeah as soon as they started I could feel the competition just rev to max in my brain I was like oh I've got to I've got to be Brady and of course what actually happens with the go carting is that you go nowhere it's almost impossible to change positions unless the person in front makes a mistake you I started in front of you and that is where I stayed we had a good day out did I buy you flowers it felt like I might have bought you flowers I can't remember flowers you came in saw Roger you saw Audrey yeah I did come and see Audrey and we had had we had had a lovely day together yeah nice one I'll go on a field trip with you anytime Brady
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