Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.03.11

Simulator_User_Group
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== List of Speakers ==
ac14 Hutson 	Duckie Dickins 	Ima Mechanique
Inara Pey 	Jenna Felton 	Kelly Linden
Kennylex Luckless 	Lexbot Sinister	Lucia Nightfire
Qie Niangao 	Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden
Tankmaster Finesmith	Whirly Fizzle 	Yuzuru Jewell
== Transcript ==
[12:02] Simon Linden: The main server channel was updated this mornign with the code that is on the RCs
[12:02] Simon Linden: Here are the notes on it : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-02-10/td-p/2486393
[12:02] Kennylex Luckless: Hia, I has question. Natoma and Minna has get griefed by same user with new alt several days now, but alwaus with same images, script and cubes. Cann LL not block those?
[12:02] Simon Linden: Tomorrow we are not updating the RC channels, so next week Tuesday there won't be anything to promote
[12:02] Lucia Nightfire: @ Kenny, no , lol
[12:03] Inara Pey: RCs still getting a restart?
[12:03] Simon Linden: There should be another maintenance update in the RCs next week
[12:03] Simon Linden: No Inara, we won't restart them
[12:03] Inara Pey nods
[12:03] Rex Cronon: hi kennylex.
[12:04] Kennylex Luckless: Hia all.
[12:04] Simon Linden: Baker isn't able to make it here today, but he's moving forward with the group ban work. It's going to get another round of testing and hopefully soon will be on the beta grid with a special project viewer
[12:04] Whirly Fizzle: Yay!
[12:05] Simon Linden: That's it for news, so the floor's open for questions
[12:06] Simon Linden: hmmm, this may be a very short meeting :P
[12:06] Kennylex Luckless: Why can not LL remove images depicting for example animal sex, is it for it is hard or for users has artistic freedom?
[12:07] ac14 Hutson: a few weeks back I asked about updates to the sound functions. has anyone started anything on that?
[12:07] Simon Linden: I don't have a good answer, Kenny, since I don't work the support and governance issues
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: LL won't blacklist imagery w/o question unless its child pornography
[12:07] Simon Linden: I'd suggest filing ARs ... they are looked at, really.
[12:07] Kennylex Luckless: We has problem with grief that has been hard to clean, even if we use land tools object can get stuck abov 1000 m
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: or unless its a DMCA work case or a supoena case
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: all other imagery is allowed
[12:07] Kennylex Luckless: I has do so 1 year soon.
[12:08] Rex Cronon: right. take a shot of the imge in question when u file an ar
[12:08] Rex Cronon: image*
[12:09] Kennylex Luckless: I do so, I has star send a constant feed of porno images to LL, but of some reason same images come back.
[12:09] Kennylex Luckless: There is still images around Natoma in Sims I not can clean.
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: file an AR and cross your fingers it will get cleaned, but governance almost never cleans objects on non-Linden land
[12:10] Lucia Nightfire: you're better off contacting the land owner of the parcel(s) they're on
[12:11] Kennylex Luckless: It is clean now around Natoma, so Gov did act faster that I did think.
[12:11] Simon Linden: That's good
[12:12] Qie Niangao: Hmm, that reminds me: some recently abandoned land did not get auto-return set when it was abandoned. I thought that was supposed to happen now.
[12:12] Jenna Felton: i had the case of a sim on the beta grid was griefed by physical cubes with very hentai images on it and zombies pushed that physical cubes around and bringing the sim to 25FPS :) not sure you can fill AR in the beta grid
[12:13] Kennylex Luckless: Now. I has have problem clean land with land tool latest day and objects that I has cleaned are still on land but not visible in land tools.
[12:13] Simon Linden: I don't think that has changed recently, Qie, but I believe you are right. All the settings should revert to default values and I'm pretty sure that includes auto-return
[12:14] ac14 Hutson: Last I saw I tHINK it set no auto return but no build / no object entry
[12:14] Kennylex Luckless: I can remove one by one and they still was on land after I did relog but not visible in land tools.
[12:14] Qie Niangao: okay. yeah, ac, that's what seems to have happened. I guess I remembered wrong.
[12:15] Lucia Nightfire: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7788
[12:16] ac14 Hutson: I liked it better when it was no build and auto return instead of no object entry. seems kinda annoying that they changed it otherwise
[12:17] Simon Linden: I don't know the reason for the difference but I don't think the code that sets that automatically has changed recently. Maybe the land team is doing something different now
[12:17] Qie Niangao: generally auto-return is more effective at prventing debris. although I did notice that it's getting harder for a script to trick no-object-entry.
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: I'm nto a big fan of copyable, non-sat on physics hitting no-entry borders and only becomign non-physical, I'd liek an option for autoclean or something for that scenario
[12:18] Simon Linden: lol Qie ... please let us know if you figure out some more ways to do that
[12:18] Qie Niangao: :)
[12:19] Kennylex Luckless: Is thera a land team you can talk to if you want LDPW to fix (smooth) land? Old LL land bordering to my land is so porly teraformed I can not make my land smooth.
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: oh there are ways
[12:19] Simon Linden: I'm sure there are
[12:19] Duckie Dickins: Oh one thing I have observed about abandoned land...a lot of times when the owner's avatar gets disabled for non payment and the land gets seized, auto return doesn't get set..so it's possible that was the case.
[12:20] Jenna Felton: you can seize abandoned land?
[12:20] Lucia Nightfire: I could be wrong, but I think Guy manually does the parcel changes in that regard
[12:20] Simon Linden: That sounds like a different set of steps compared to abandoning land ... maybe that's why the settings end up different
[12:21] Lucia Nightfire: I've witnessed him doing said seizures a few times
[12:22] Simon Linden: On a different note, if any of you are founders of large groups and are interested in having stale accounts purged from them, let me know (like in IM)
[12:22] Lucia Nightfire: define stale, heh
[12:22] Duckie Dickins: Yeah my neighbor owned the sim next door to mine on mainland and used it for rental land. His account was closed but his items stayed there for a few months until someone got around to clearing it off and putting it back up for auction...So I think it is a manual process and sometimes the settings don't get toggled correctly
[12:22] Simon Linden: I wrote a new tool that will remove disabled accounts, and ones that have not logged into SL for over a year
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: does that process notify the person beign removed?
[12:23] Kennylex Luckless: Well, the land I want smoothed is so old that even Torley looks like a newbie there.
[12:23] Simon Linden: No, they're disabled or haven't been on SL for over a year ... so what's the point?
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: depends on their role I guess
[12:24] Kennylex Luckless: That sounds great.
[12:24] Simon Linden: There are a bunch of exceptions too ... owners or founders are never removed, nor premium accounts
[12:24] Lucia Nightfire: I know some group owners that don't frequent SL in half a year or more time's interval, heh
[12:24] Jenna Felton: this tool should be known, than the statistic about the number of SL residents will be tken more seriously i think
[12:24] Kennylex Luckless: But worst is, I made a account when SL was brand new, logged in one time and did forget it in 5 years :D
[12:25] Lucia Nightfire: is that tool plannign on being an option for EO's or GO's at some point?
[12:25] Rex Cronon: come on. u can't remove somebody from a group just because they haven't logged in a year. people have alts:)
[12:26] Kennylex Luckless: I sure they can get a e-mail to ask them to log in.
[12:26] Qie Niangao: Oh, speaking of groups, Marianne McCann reports that large group chat has been failing since last evening. BUG-5108
[12:26] Simon Linden: Not now, Lucy, but we'd like to trim down some of the larger groups. I did it with one for a popular, older venue and they went from 11k down to 3.5k ... and are much happier how fast it loads
[12:26] Ima Mechanique: I have several accounts I haven't logged in with in over a year. I'd be annoyed to find them kicked from groups I signed up for
[12:26] Kennylex Luckless: ... unless you provided LL with a faked e-mail it will not be any problem :-)
[12:26] Whirly Fizzle: We used to clean up Firestorm support group all the time of avatars that hadnt logged in for 6 months. Its not so important now large groups will actually load their members though.
[12:26] Simon Linden: That's a particularly high rate of removal, fwiw .. most others that have been scanned are 15-20%
[12:27] Inara Pey: You happy for that request re large groups to go out in blog posts, Simon?
[12:27] Lexbot Sinister: If you aren't using your account to even log in once a year... it's unresonable to consider it active in any way.
[12:28] Ima Mechanique: Lex, what about when it's an account used for monitoring thing automated?
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: not unless its a pay acct or a land owner or a land donator for teh group, etc
[12:28] Ima Mechanique: those accounts still get IMs delivered to mail and can reply to them, all without logging in
[12:28] Lucia Nightfire: or just an old friend that is busy with SL, but might come online to get back into things later, it happens, heh
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: *bust with RL
[12:29] Lucia Nightfire: bah, screw typing
[12:29] Lexbot Sinister: Then you want to keep that account active, and thus log it in... make a list of accounts, log them in one by one... Consider it a verification process that you are still interested
[12:29] Simon Linden: I know it'll be in transcripts, Inara, but I'm not making a big call out to the public ... I am curious, however, at everyone's reaction to the idea. Obviously we don't want drama over it
[12:29] Ima Mechanique: Lex, I don't have time to wast logging in a dozen accounts just so LL thinks they're active
[12:30] Lexbot Sinister: There will always be drama.
[12:30] Inara Pey: Drama - hence why I asked first
[12:30] rcdsQueChatLog: Ron Khondji, you can read the log here:
http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl:Rex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[12:30] Whirly Fizzle: I think its a good idea
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: I think its a good idea for public groups
[12:30] Duckie Dickins: I've done purges like that manually....you're 4 years late Simon. :P
[12:30] Ima Mechanique: however, I *would* like disabled accounts removed
[12:30] Whirly Fizzle: Does having less members in a group help with chat lag at all though?
[12:30] Lucia Nightfire: and limited access, of course, heh
[12:30] Lexbot Sinister: I also think it's a good idea. Logging in a dozen accounts once a year should take about 20-30 minutes of work.
[12:30] Rex Cronon: there is something also to remember. for some groups u have to pay to become a member. if u kick somebody out that mean they loose money:(
[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: Ah, thats true Rex
[12:31] Ima Mechanique: Lex, it takes longer than that to remember the passwords
[12:31] Duckie Dickins: do disabled accounts get removed from estate ban lists now? Now that would be nifty
[12:31] Lexbot Sinister: But it would be up to the group owner to do it.
[12:31] Simon Linden: I'm not sure how this might effect group chat ... I believe it won't, but I'm fuzzy on the exact details how a chat session is maintained and messages distributed.
[12:31] Jenna Felton: actually not loging in for a long time is against TOS, where you confirm to keep your avatar in a good state
[12:32] Whirly Fizzle: It is?
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: dat TOS
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: its sneaky some timew
[12:32] Jenna Felton: somewhere i read that
[12:32] Lucia Nightfire: *s
[12:32] Ima Mechanique: how does logging in == "keeping in good state"
[12:32] Simon Linden: That sounds very strange
[12:32] Rex Cronon: lol. we r made of byte. bytes don't require maintanance:)
[12:32] Kennylex Luckless: Define "n a good state", avatars can not do 5 2 diet.
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: any list of rules is open for interpretation esp from teh corporate or legal side, heh
[12:33] Ima Mechanique: I imagine that phrase referes to payments
[12:33] Lucia Nightfire: I'd like to see the stats on closed accts due to inactivity per year
[12:34] Simon Linden: and I
[12:34] Duckie Dickins: cleaning up dead groups might be nice too...I'm in one that has no owners, a fee to join, and nobody uses it.
[12:34] Whirly Fizzle: They don't close accounts for inactivity do they?
[12:34] Simon Linden: I'm sure the business and marketing guys don't want to publish that, Lucy
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: afaik, they do, Whirls
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: there are exceptions
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: liek what I mentioned above
[12:34] Lexbot Sinister: Btw, would it be login inworld from a client, or logging onto the dashboard count too?
[12:34] Lucia Nightfire: esp with land owning or donating
[12:35] Lucia Nightfire: or premium status, any/all that that stillis being renewed
[12:35] Simon Linden: That's an interesting question, Lex ... I don't know if that's tied to web logins or not
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: I've heard it has to be in-world from one particular land owner
[12:36] Simon Linden: Lucy - premiums are never removed, nor anyone donating land
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: as he was loosing non-pay alts
[12:36] Ima Mechanique: looks like I'll have to get my bot scrip out again ;-) I have one to log each account in once a week so I get the 50L stipend ;-)
[12:36] Lexbot Sinister: I think LL has been far too lenient with stale accounts for a very long time.
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: right, Simon, those were the exceptions I listed
[12:38] Kennylex Luckless: Lifetime users are a big problem, some has not logged in then 2006 and still can hold attractive land even they never are here or maybe not exist any more.
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: blame the free 512m of land for premium users thing, lol
[12:38] Lucia Nightfire: that single incentive has caused rogue parcels all over the mainland
[12:38] Kennylex Luckless: 512 :-(
[12:39] Duckie Dickins: you mean those lifetime users who got free 4096 sq meters of land forever
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: ie, they interfere with land acquisition in the same region
[12:39] Simon Linden: were there many of those?
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: as well as land auctions
[12:39] Jenna Felton: when they payfor the land automatically and when the land is attractive than why not keep it as it is :) even if the holders are gone
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: no, those are Charter members, duckiwe
[12:39] Kennylex Luckless: I want free 4096 to, 512 can not hold a single twisted prim with materials :-)
[12:39] Lucia Nightfire: those are less common, but I know some places where their land is also interferign with land acq
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: mainly in the old continent
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: Charter member land is essentail teh same as protected land, heh
[12:40] Duckie Dickins: yeah but nobody cares about the old continent. :P
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: some do, heh
[12:40] Duckie Dickins: it's all about estates and homesteads
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: old continent land is prestigious and has worht
[12:40] Kennylex Luckless: I do, I live in the middle of it...incontinent, and I like it.
[12:41] Ima Mechanique: lol i live on the old continent
[12:41] Ima Mechanique: next to one of the big lakes
[12:41] Lucia Nightfire: O.C. land is worth a lot of money
[12:41] Lexbot Sinister: There are many old builds that just stand and decay. There is a certain amount of content rot over time, prims going missing, scripts stopping etc, but nobody to care for it.
[12:41] Qie Niangao: luckily, estate sims evaporate unless actively paid-for.
[12:41] Whirly Fizzle: I love my homestead. No annoying neighbours :)
[12:42] Kennylex Luckless: Grief in Natoma again, I has to run.
[12:42] Rex Cronon: it impossible for them to decay. they r digital:)
[12:42] Ima Mechanique: Whirly, none you can see. But theirs for more on the cpu ;-)
[12:42] Qie Niangao: actually, if they decayed *faster*, it would solve the problem. :p
[12:42] Duckie Dickins: all you need to do is drive across mainland starting at ahern and work your way out..you'll see lots of missing prims and lost vehicles sitting on parcels for the last 5 years. :)
[12:42] Simon Linden: it's bit rot :)
[12:43] Lexbot Sinister: Btw the lifetime accounts.. All they are promised is some land, forever, right? Does anything say that the content on the land has to be there forever? i mean, the moment they log on, they could be granted a new, random bit of land to use.
[12:43] Ima Mechanique: ahhhh Ahern, haven't been there in years
[12:43] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, Guy doesn't hit teh road parcels that much, theres a ton of Gov Linden land roadside
[12:43] Ima Mechanique: well, except on Aditi
[12:43] Whirly Fizzle: lol its stilll the same Ima
[12:43] ac14 Hutson: I don't think there are enough lifetime accounts for it to make much of a diffrence
[12:43] Ima Mechanique: over crowded rude and loud?
[12:44] ac14 Hutson: the bigger problem is group owned land where the group does not have enough teir to cover the land but it keeps it anyway
[12:44] Whirly Fizzle: Yesh.
[12:44] Simon Linden: I don't know the promise on that, Lex, but I doubt anything was laid out clearly
[12:44] Ima Mechanique: "when I were a lad, Ahern was a lovely place to be"
[12:44] Jenna Felton: when a castle in RL is a protected because of a memorial state than there may live someone but must care about to keep the castle in a good state :) perhaps sometimes similar is a good concept for old continent too :)
[12:45] Lucia Nightfire: the only thing like that is protected land and charter member land
[12:45] Lexbot Sinister: mainland need s a restructuring so badly :(
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: and one sad thing is, theres a ton of protected land that no longer is servering its initial purpose after relocation or removal of events or infohubs
[12:46] Lucia Nightfire: and can can't even make an offer to LL to claim any of it
[12:47] Lucia Nightfire: or request it be auctioned
[12:48] Qie Niangao: Heh, yeah, I defy anyone to make sense of what's left of Hyles
[12:48] Duckie Dickins: Do they clean up old employee parcels here in the linden village or only when they need to make room for someone new? :)
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: theres a ton of rogue protected land parcels on teh mainland
[12:48] Kelly Linden: Has anyone had a chance to play with the fitted mesh stuff? http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Fitted-Mesh-Is-Here/ba-p/2461687
[12:48] Kirsten Kiergarten (kirsten.kiergarten): the TOS lets LL reclaim land and L$ from inactive accounts but can't see anywhere that "Active account" is defined
[12:48] Simon Linden: I think those get cleaned, Duckie ... I used to have more neighbors
[12:48] Jenna Felton: is this already in the SL viewer that was updated today?
[12:48] Whirly Fizzle: Yeps, Ive been playing with fitmesh
[12:48] Kelly Linden: jenna I think so
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: idrk the changes with fit mesh are
[12:49] Jenna Felton: thank you :)
[12:49] Lucia Nightfire: the benefits so to speak
[12:49] Whirly Fizzle: Oh I noticed a change go into bear today that disables ALM for Mac 10.6. I was curious about this because having ALM disabled for Mac 10.6 on the Fitmesh viewers will give bad rendering of most rigged meshes.
[12:50] Whirly Fizzle: Mac 10.6 with AMD cards I should say
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: I know it isn't fixing the problem with toddler/fairy/quad rigged mesh animals or wolfkin av's being scrunched or stretched or distorted, heh, which erks me more than anything
[12:50] Kelly Linden: I think ALM on 10.6 was causing a lot of crashes
[12:50] Whirly Fizzle: If they have ALM disabled then they will have to disable hardware sklinning, which makes rigged mesh ugly
[12:51] Qie Niangao: Lucy, I thought all new content was required to make any use of fitted mesh
[12:51] Tankmaster Finesmith: yes, fited mesh is in the viewer from LL that just went out, 3..7.0
[12:51] Simon Linden: I saw that too, Whirly - apparently there are some driver problems with that version
[12:51] Whirly Fizzle: Fitmesh is a bit of a diosater for Mac 10.6 & 10.7 with AMD cards unfortunately
[12:51] Whirly Fizzle: *disaster
[12:51] Whirly Fizzle: 10.9 is okay
[12:51] Lucia Nightfire: I can't find the damn jira for that bug I mentioend
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: its a SH cat I think
[12:52] Tankmaster Finesmith: unfortentally not all can upgrade to 10.9
[12:52] Duckie Dickins: lol. I just noticed the parcel across the water is named Simon's Squatting Land :D Even Lindens squat land. :P
[12:53] Whirly Fizzle: Lucia https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-3416
[12:53] Lucia Nightfire: ya, thanks, I have to upload my pic of teh wolfkin av it breaks too
[12:53] Kennylex Luckless: I think Simon shall take all Land here in old Linden Vilage and make a vilage.
[12:53] Simon Linden: I'm not going to comment on anything that would end up in the transcript :P
[12:54] Jenna Felton laughs
[12:54] Whirly Fizzle: Lucia try the sunshine viewer. Theres been some fixes for joint positions not resetting correctly after removing rigged mesh. I don't know if that will fix that issue though
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: anything interesting being worked on atm that you can comment on?
[12:54] Rex Cronon: at least u didn't say u need your lawyer to be present;)
[12:54] Lucia Nightfire: whats comign down teh pipe
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: thanks Whirls, I'll have to see sometime
[12:55] Kennylex Luckless: Btw, a not so urgent subject. If Ebbe Altberg know how what SL is and how to log in then we need a Cut Out of him asp.
[12:56] Simon Linden: I'll leave that up to you folks ... I haven't seen what his AV looks like yet
[12:56] Duckie Dickins: oh..yes...transcripts..oops...well then for the record....mainland looks a lot like detroit.......but after camming around here, so does the linden village.
[12:56] Simon Linden: I guess it's time for Flat Rodvik to go
[12:57] Ima Mechanique: is that who that was?
[12:57] Kennylex Luckless: Just put him in the cave.
[12:57] Ima Mechanique: I thought it was Eric Idle in drag
[12:57] Duckie Dickins: I hope he comes to an office hour to meet SL's more enthusiastic members... :D
[12:58] Kennylex Luckless: Or most annoying like me.
[12:58] Simon Linden: I'll be sure to invite him
[12:59] Ima Mechanique: poor man, has no idea what's in store for him ;-)
[12:59] Tankmaster Finesmith: he probably does
[12:59] Qie Niangao: Ima, who knows? He may have been a griefer here for years. :P
[12:59] Simon Linden: I know there's already lots of posts and blogs ... I'm sure he's been looking at a lot of things
[13:00] Duckie Dickins: he gets extra points for showing up dressed as optimus prime.
[13:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: itll be interesting to see what direction he takes SL
[13:01] Ima Mechanique: hmm, default direction is East ;-)
[13:01] Kennylex Luckless: I need to go, just found more boxes stuck that I has to clean out bu hand :-)
[13:02] Kelly Linden: o/
[13:02] Lucia Nightfire: you should make a scripted cleaner, heh
[13:02] Rex Cronon: tc
[13:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Kelly.
[13:02] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming today and the talk
[13:02] Qie Niangao: Thanks Simon, Kelly, all, have fun
[13:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Simon.
[13:02] Simon Linden: I'll see you next time
[13:02] Lexbot Sinister: Have you guys met him yet?
[13:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: have a good rest of the week
[13:02] Inara Pey: Thanks, Simon, Kelly
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