Jack linden office hour 22-09-2009

== List of Attendees ==
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== Transcript ==
[11:05]	:	Jack...tehre still seems to be an issue with not being able to ban people 'estate wide'. This has been going on for a LOOOOOOOONNNG time. 	
[11:05]	:	is there a light at the end of the tunnel on this? 	
[11:05]	:	that is a real pain for us jack 	
[11:06]	:	the troubble seems mostly that its near impossible to reproduce reliably 	
[11:06]	:	Alexxa, from what I've been told that is more of an issue around certain 3rd party viewers rather than an actual bug. But I know the engineers are very aware of it 	
[11:06]	:	While doing a gridhunt, I enounter camping chairs with about a dozon or so bots fighting for a spot. Who should be ARed in that case? :-) 	
[11:06]	:	well aren't you going to rein in the third-party menaces? 	
[11:06]	:	<<never uses 3rd party,....so it has been an issue for me for a long time...just to clarify :) 	
[11:07]	:	i thought you will only approve 3rd party viewer which are secure 	
[11:07]	:	OMG jack Linden, you've aged 30 years since I last saw ye, must be the openspaces debacle and the chickens, yeesh 	
[11:07]	:	Techwolf, i think that as camping chairs usually serve the same purpose, of inflating traffic, then ARing the person who is using them is reasonable. We'll still investigate so we will be fair about how it's handled 	
[11:08]	:	still investigating ...after 6 months ??? 	
[11:08]	:	Hard to do 30 ARs in a row. 	
[11:08]	:	jack, interesting, i dont recall 3rd party viewvers being mentioned in the jira about the estate ban bug ( http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632) 	
[11:08]	:	Oh hi Prokofy.. you'll have seen the blog post that Cyn sent out. We'll be talking more but we're acutely aware of the issues around some 3rd party viewers 	
[11:08]	:	well of coures it's the third parties 	
[11:08]	:	what about the sim owner who abuse their status and are mature event they should be adult 	
[11:08]	:	not only have I seen the blog post I've posted like 30 times in it : ) 	
[11:09]	:	it is always fun to read your posts prokofy :) 	
[11:09]	:	That jira seems to be an important one for alot of people. Why is it still unassigned and what steps are being taken to fix this 	
[11:09]	:	everybody who celebrates the third-party hacked viewers should draw the dotted lines between them and their lack of estate bans 	
[11:09]	:	There was a bug with people setting their home point to a region and then you can't ban them from it 	
[11:10]	:	Ionetorus (wow that's hard to type).. I'll prod the devs, but my understanding is that certain 3rd party viewers can cause estate ban to not work properly 	
[11:10]	:	Jack tell us about the FIC thing with Anshe, what's up with that 	
[11:10]	:	it affects people WITHOUT 3rd party viewers 	
[11:10]	:	even if it's due to third party viewers, the *fix* needs to be on the server side. 	
[11:10]	:	Estate ban workaround can be used with LL clients, so the third party cleints are not the issue with the estate ban bugs. 	
[11:10]	:	yes, i would like to hear about that as well, Prokofy 	
[11:10]	:	if that happends..will you work with them and tell them they have to make it work or they will not be allowed anymore 	
[11:10]	:	why is estate ban and 3rd party viewers being mixed up, does anyone have any proof of a connection? 	
[11:10]	:	Yeah, if they're banned, they're banned. The server isn't enforcing it because there's a hole in the server code 	
[11:10]	:	agreed Tal 	
[11:10]	:	good Point Prokofy 	
[11:10]	:	it's not just 3rd party viewers that evade Estate Bans 	
[11:11]	:	i dont lonetorus..just have people coming back :P 	
[11:11]	:	Ok Jack, the hot topic of discussion for the last week has been this thing where some people are allowed to buy new homesteads that are grandfathered. You alluded to the fact that there is a beta program in place. That 75-80 estates are allowed to take place in this beta program and that it will be opened up more in 3 months time. Yay for the productive idea that GF sims can still be bought. 	
[11:11]	:	However, since the cat is out of the bag on this, we would like to know what this program is about. Who is in the beta program and just how were those estates chosen to be in the program? What is the current criteria to be in the beta program? 	
[11:11]	:	Prok, I'm not sure what more I can say about it.. I think someone did blog last weeks transcript. 	
[11:11]	:	Let me set up your answer for you Jack, "Linden Lab has always had conversations with various customers in the interests of making a more predictable Second Life experience for us all" 	
[11:11]	:	hehe 	
[11:11]	:	well that transcript was such a kasha 	
[11:11]	:	could you just put in one line, what the deal is 	
[11:11]	:	"Big land barons get discounts at our discretion. Next?" 	
[11:11]	:	"Aspire to be one and shut up. Next?" 	
[11:11]	:	or how that works 	
[11:12]	:	I thik discounts for bulk purchases are a great thing, I just wish it was a button anyone could click 	
[11:12]	:	i talked with may estate owners...also big ones..they dont know anything about it jack 	
[11:12]	:	same here Equi 	
[11:12]	:	But as we'd previously talked about we're pushing to roll out a range of programs that help estates. So we've started with the top 80 or so estates and are working our way through. We expect to be able to offer all estates some form of these programs 	
[11:12]	:	i have never heard of it. i was wondering how we know if we qualify 	
[11:12]	:	..or they can't talk about it. 	
[11:13]	:	so what's the cutoff between 80 and 81? 	
[11:13]	:	only one has stated publically to being involved and their Estate is a small one 	
[11:13]	:	Who is in the beta program and just how were those estates chosen to be in the program? What is the current criteria to be in the beta program? 	
[11:13]	:	How many mainland rental businesses are there, do you think Jack? 	
[11:13]	:	prolly told to hush :) 	
[11:13]	:	how big do you have to be to qualify....what size does number 80 has 	
[11:13]	:	how many regions does one need to own to be in the top 80? 	
[11:13]	:	what makes a large estate? 	
[11:13]	:	Jack is typing, but I don't see words. :P 	
[11:13]	:	Part of those programs will be around discounting for bulk orders or for growth, promotion opportunities and so on. 	
[11:13]	:	Slight lag Tal I think 	
[11:13]	:	lol 	
[11:13]	:	Jack you arn't rolling out anything...your picking and choosing your bedfellows at the DETRIMANT to others 	
[11:13]	:	DETRIMENT 	
[11:14]	:	give him a chance to answer, I think even Jack has only one keyboard ... :) 	
[11:14]	:	He needs a bigger boat 	
[11:14]	:	Even I have two... <.< 	
[11:14]	:	I guess I don't mind if Jack picks bedfellows, I just hope he is picking GOOD bedfellows that one can say actually do help the economy and not just their own economy. 	
[11:14]	:	Proky has 10 	
[11:14]	:	I have 14 	
[11:14]	 	looks at the row of backup keyboard stack... 	
[11:14]	:	I think the 80 was something like 20 islands and above. 	
[11:14]	 	chuckles 	
[11:14]	:	What is the current criteria to be in the beta program? 	
[11:14]	:	I'm very small by contrast 	
[11:14]	:	0.o 	
[11:14]	:	hmmm.... 	
[11:14]	:	that cannot be 	
[11:15]	 	looks around at the Estate owners gathered here... 	
[11:15]	:	Jack, I have loads more than 20, why was I not contacted? 	
[11:15]	:	many have more than 20 here 	
[11:15]	:	hmmm how can that be Jack 	
[11:15]	:	We do 	
[11:15]	:	i have much more than 20 LOL 	
[11:15]	:	Well i have more than 20 and i haven't been notified. Do we put in a ticket for this service? 	
[11:15]	:	why dont we try over 80 here 	
[11:15]	:	can we try again on the number plz? kthx 	
[11:15]	:	If you have 100 islands, you don't need to come to Jack's office hours, you're already in the pink 	
[11:15]	:	not true, Prok 	
[11:15]	:	Melody, it's in process. So if you are that big then you should be hearing from us 	
[11:15]	:	i still have to prokofy...believe me lol 	
[11:15]	:	when? 	
[11:15]	:	lmao 	
[11:15]	:	so if we have 100? We should bet at the top of that list? 	
[11:15]	:	be at* 	
[11:16]	:	:) I'm not doing the calls myself Melody so I can't give you an exact time. 	
[11:16]	:	But soon 	
[11:16]	:	well Equinox, you know, I bet if you went to those Lindens now and told then you wanted to buy 100 homesteads, they could probably do something for you. 	
[11:16]	:	if 20 is the base then 80 should be at the top end. 	
[11:16]	:	is that the "smaller estates" bit jack.. then 100 or less LOL 	
[11:16]	:	hwen the grid is full of grandfathered sims from the "special" ones melody :) 	
[11:16]	:	prokofy.....seems you dont know me :) 	
[11:16]	:	its 80 people Jack? How hard is it to send 80 emails out. Not 3 months. I can do it ina single day 	
[11:16]	:	or is it based on the amount of tier you pay per month ? more then 10K us*? 	
[11:16]	:	if you only clear $17 a month on a homestead then you can't pay it pack for a year 	
[11:16]	:	So Jack this is being rolled out on a basis of how many sims you have? 	
[11:16]	:	meanwhile others are getting the advantage 	
[11:17]	:	is there a cut off? 	
[11:17]	:	To begin with Driftwood, yeah.. we needed to start somewhere and size of investment was a fair way to do it, bearing in mind that we just can't offer this to thousands of estates all at once. 	
[11:17]	:	perhaps the top 25 are supposed to get more of an advantage than the next 25, and so on? 	
[11:17]	:	You can't offer because of concurrency or because of cash flow? 	
[11:18]	:	but you didnt offer it to the 80 big ones yet 	
[11:18]	:	is there a way for us to see who the top 80 estates are? 	
[11:18]	:	I guess you just follow your leaving tenants and see where they go, stormi 	
[11:18]	:	and btw...i think the small ones should et too somethng if hey bu alot at onces 	
[11:18]	:	But we are not talking about thousnads right now. we are however talking about 80, that doesnt seem like a massive task 	
[11:18]	:	land mass is nOT ameasure of investment Jack 	
[11:18]	:	Simply scaling Prokofy, this is about having a conversation with the estate owners, making sure we're meeting their needs and being clear with them on how this will work 	
[11:19]	:	Melody, to one person setting up the hardware, it is. :-) 	
[11:19]	:	and so it' s happening one owner at a time? 	
[11:19]	:	so how any di you talk already with? 	
[11:19]	:	Driftwood, we're taking into account that 1 Homestead is not equal to 1 full island 	
[11:19]	:	oh i an say somethign on that jack 	
[11:19]	:	so it is TIER Based 	
[11:19]	:	so it's a top 80 based on tier paid to LL? 	
[11:19]	:	Honestly, I dont think 80 will take advantage right aay, however letting the 80 know this is available and seeing who wants to opt in right away is a start 	
[11:19]	:	what is the total number of simulators at this time, and how many are full island and how many homesteads 	
[11:20]	:	meeting our needs? when.. when some sim OVERload the servers and other sims lag on the count of it?! 	
[11:20]	:	so it is tier based...how much tier is number 80 payin`? 	
[11:20]	:	Trouble, no.. we've several members of staff ramping up the program. It's only just started, but those 80 should all have heard from us very soon.. then we'll roll on further 	
[11:20]	:	what is the tier amount you are looking at? If it is money being paid. 	
[11:20]	:	Jack are you talking 20 or more regions in general - including homesteads and possibly openspaces, or at least 20 full prim sims? 	
[11:21]	:	You said that about MOTD jack :( 	
[11:21]	:	yes, i am not sure the difference between homestead tier and full prim tier. If the estate owner is paying LL 10,0000 USD a month 	
[11:21]	:	What is very soon and what is the 'minimun' paid that puts you in the beta? 	
[11:21]	:	Jack, if htey need help sending out emails, I've got time... 	
[11:21]	:	opps 10,000 lol 	
[11:21]	:	again....how much tier do you hae to py to be in that program 	
[11:21]	:	(your mic is on driftwood) 	
[11:21]	:	Sunrunner, I expect it's FREs (full region equivalents), so a homestead will count as a partial full region 	
[11:21]	:	wow Stormi, you should be up with Anshe ;) 	
[11:21]	:	:) 	
[11:21]	:	i wish lol 	
[11:21]	:	typo there lol 	
[11:22]	:	Thanks :) Motor 	
[11:22]	:	LOL 	
[11:22]	:	Prokofy, I think we're at around 9700 homesteads, 	
[11:22]	:	Jack do you have a LINK to this New Program? 	
[11:22]	:	..and 13800 full regions 	
[11:22]	:	ok, ty for that info 	
[11:23]	:	and 5000 mainland? 	
[11:23]	:	5300 or thereabouts 	
[11:23]	:	so the world did shrink 	
[11:23]	:	almsot 5400 i think prokofy 	
[11:23]	:	Can somebody do the math and figure out how many servers that is? I was wondering how many racks it would take to support that. :-) 	
[11:23]	:	Shawno.. not yet, but we'll be putting out more info, web page and so on. 	
[11:24]	:	oh hey Jack, thanks for having them send me the email about this, I just now got it. Glad I was added to the list 	
[11:24]	:	8000 servers? or do they have 2 and not 4 on them? 	
[11:24]	:	you still didnt answer jack..how much tier do you need to pay to be in the 80 estates 	
[11:24]	 	runs to check her email lol 	
[11:24]	:	Jack, are you rolling this out on a "need to know basis" including NDA etc or are we going to have something published? 	
[11:24]	:	safe to say 16K Prok :) 	
[11:24]	:	Mel u just now got the Email. about the Program? 	
[11:24]	:	lol stormi 	
[11:24]	:	Melody, nothing to do woth me but that's pretty funny. As I said, we're getting through people fairly quickly 	
[11:25]	:	oh my.. i got it too :-) 	
[11:25]	:	4 full sims and about 8 to 16 homestead per server I think... 	
[11:25]	:	like 20 secnds ago 	
[11:25]	:	yes lol 	
[11:25]	:	ahh 	
[11:25]	:	than i should have one too lol 	
[11:25]	:	hurry everyone check lol 	
[11:25]	:	Easy to do the math: full regions/mainland / 4, Homesteads / 16 = # of servers, roughly 	
[11:25]	:	LOL!!! 	
[11:25]	:	Driftwood, we'll publish it.. I don't think it makes sense for a program like this to be under NDA other than perhaps in early discussions or beta 	
[11:26]	:	thank you 	
[11:26]	:	Why need beta? Its just a bulk discount. Every busness does that. 	
[11:26]	:	Equinox, it's not based on amount paid directly, but on FREs owned I believe 	
[11:27]	:	how do you calculate the FRE , 	
[11:27]	:	It's not Techwolf, there is more to it than that. We want to have more of a b2b relationship with customers. 	
[11:27]	:	Jack, can you tell me if this secret beta program with these big land barons is the *same* secret program with big land barons that I stumbled on that had a group where you were discussing the principles of zoning? Or is it yet another caper>? 	
[11:27]	:	so somene whohas 50 HS is not in the program???? 	
[11:27]	:	Thats what we want Jack 	
[11:28]	:	are you cooking up another Nautilus type thing with expenso land and themes? 	
[11:28]	:	Prokofy, there was no caper, other than a conversation about zoning (something we talk about often). There is no secret Mainland project like that 	
[11:28]	:	it's a Beta :P 	
[11:29]	:	but there was a secret group 	
[11:29]	:	but you do announce themed mainland on the website 	
[11:29]	:	Closed beta. :) 	
[11:29]	:	lol TAL 	
[11:29]	:	heh 	
[11:29]	:	well are you laying on another Nautilus type continent or? 	
[11:29]	:	Totally driftwood, and of course moving to more of an account manager mode with big customers takes time 	
[11:29]	:	Well, that's what it boils down to 	
[11:30]	:	Jack, let me ask you something then. Since GF HS are still able to be purchased from you. Noone would dare keep buying 100s of new ones with the price going up in a few montsh. So with that said, are you all seeng a stability in the HS market. Not just financially but in grid stablity and will you go ahead and leave the current pricing in place. Yes, I know you will not say yay or nay right now, but is it something you are considering	
[11:30]	:	/wonders what account manager mode actually involves 	
[11:30]	:	Zoning is very popular.. the secondary market, the rate of churn, the retention rates are all much better in those themed areas like Nautilus 	
[11:31]	:	And we know we have a real problem area when it comes to getting new residents onto the land ownership ladder 	
[11:31]	:	Yes, Melody. Good question. For those that own homesteads and not knowing for sure if the tier will increase. It causes uncertaining in planning for the future growth. 	
[11:31]	:	So we want to make changes that help to bring more people into land ownership 	
[11:31]	:	yeah, that's because people are still trying to squeeze L$100/sqm out of their speculator plots in them. >.> 	
[11:31]	:	well, uh, at $55,000 or more a pop, I wouldn't expect "churn" Jack. This is not Babayashut we're talking about. And a lot of pepole are frozen (like me) because of big tall ugly tower builds or ugly other crap in the air. Can't you zone this stuff next time, no tall towers and spinning crap in the air 	
[11:31]	:	Tier's the same; they can wait until the sun burns itself out to make book, or so they think 	
[11:32]	:	*Babayagashut 	
[11:32]	:	Melody, I think that's a fair point and we are thinking about that. The land market has become fairly stable again and we're very reluctant to make it wobble again 	
[11:32]	:	if we knew sooner than later if the GF would stay or not would make a HUGE differnce in my explansion program 	
[11:32]	:	i dont think the tier system keeps people away from buying mainland jack....it is the service the private estates offer people you dont do 	
[11:32]	:	Babayaga's hut! wasn't that a D&D item (tries to remember that far back) 	
[11:33]	:	? 	
[11:33]	:	Stable at <L$2/sqm :) 	
[11:33]	:	Well, Jack. As I often say, we've *been* zoning the mainland here for years and years. Glad you've joined us, even if belatedly : ) 	
[11:33]	:	Babayaga's hut is a RL legend. 	
[11:33]	:	Co-opted by D&D, like so much mythology. 	
[11:33]	:	However, you're now going to compete with us your customers again and kills us. Why do you do that Jack? We pay you money. New people will never pay quite as much as old people, when you get down to it, until yo ubreak them in over a few years lol. 	
[11:34]	:	by the way, the number of 16m parcels for sale on the Mainland is now down to 3400, the lowest it's been in a very long time indeed 	
[11:34]	:	So it's still coming down 	
[11:34]	:	Yeah, still some holdouts 	
[11:34]	:	yay 	
[11:34]	:	Babayagashut is the name of a mainland sim where I have some of my rentals but of course, it was a sim where somebody put up some gigantic ugly tower and blocked progress for a year 	
[11:34]	:	thats great progress jack 	
[11:34]	:	Good ol' Gold Coins at L$9900/16 	
[11:34]	:	oh, speaking of 16s: will you guys please foreclose on MyADCOM, now that it has no donated tier? 	
[11:34]	:	Excellent 	
[11:35]	:	10-12 weeks ago it was at about 8000 so pretty happy with that trend 	
[11:35]	:	Even Chrischun Fassbinder is out of the people list, and his land is seized by Governor Linden, never though I'd see the day when I began playing Strategic SL in 2004. 	
[11:35]	:	You can put in tickets for his 16s now 	
[11:35]	:	Gold Coins is still very much present, so the 3400 must all be by my land 	
[11:35]	:	I just did 	
[11:35]	:	The volume of Mainland for sale is also still coming down 	
[11:36]	:	Well Jack be truthful about that now, that's because entire swathes aren't sold now, but are ABANDONED and you even label them Zindra abandoned. How many of THOSE do you have? Not to mention ad farm abandoned. 	
[11:36]	:	Jack, question on the lapsed premium account purge issue: when did the policy change? and can we be certain that our inv won't get nuked now if our premium lapses? 	
[11:37]	:	A more accurate stat would be the percentage of Mainland owned by Linden Lab 	
[11:37]	:	Jack is it really so hard to make a clear statement about the planned tier increase for homesteads ? with a clear "NO" to it I would stand up now and go shopping tons of sims but I refuse to add only one more HS to my estate before I know what will be ... ? 	
[11:37]	:	If that's descreasing, good, if increasing, maybe not so good 	
[11:37]	:	Versus non-saleable owned by LL (roads, waterways, etc) 	
[11:37]	:	yes Khamon too true 	
[11:37]	:	it was 35% about 9 month ago...guess that wnt up 	
[11:37]	:	The volume of abandoned land (as a ratio to the total amount of land) hasn't risen, but of course as we add land like Zindra the sq m that is abandoned does rise. 	
[11:38]	:	no Jack that's not what I mean at all 	
[11:38]	:	Tal: good question... counter to what I understood from last week, it appears that http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1961 ("Premium accounts that miss payments to LL risk having the account & inventory getting deleted") has not been resolved... it might need a "push"" 	
[11:38]	:	If it was 35%, then it's down to 30% now 	
[11:38]	:	That's good if no Mainland sims have been taken offline 	
[11:38]	:	there is more abandoned land on the grid, we all see it. And you even label it "Zindra abandoned," i.e. they left mature to go to adult. so you know how much those parcels are, you are labeling them even 	
[11:38]	:	Vanity, I agree that we should let people know well in advance. My hope is to get agreement and to give a clear statement early in the new year 	
[11:38]	:	Well, Jack said last week "we don't do that anymore". I wanted to know 1) since when, and 2) are you absolutely certain? 	
[11:38]	:	thanks Jack 	
[11:39]	:	Do what Talarus? 	
[11:39]	:	Tal, I think we made that change about 2 months ago. So yes, I believe that Inv gets retained for folks going delinquent now 	
[11:39]	:	Oh, that's nice 	
[11:39]	:	how do you calculate the ERP (formula?), and what is the minimum value of the ERP to be in the beta program? 	
[11:39]	:	Your support people don't that, Jack. 	
[11:39]	:	Jack do you understand that we are afraid to purchase homesteads because of the difference in tiers? we could purchase them left and right if we knew the tier wasn't going to increase in July. 	
[11:40]	:	I think Misc-1961 status suggests otherwise, though, as do some recent Forums posts. 	
[11:40]	:	OK, so if someone's inv gets purged now, what can be done to restore it? 	
[11:40]	:	As of this time last month, all your support docs and your billing people were still saying 	
[11:40]	:	that lapsed premiums would have their inventory deleted after 5 weeks. 	
[11:40]	:	(ie, are you making backups "just in case" someone didn't "get the memo"?) 	
[11:40]	:	Anshe has plenty Homesteads to satisfy demand :) 	
[11:41]	:	i dont think you hae to be afraid stormi...there is no way they will increase them to 125 usd 	
[11:41]	:	Where's my coffee? 	
[11:41]	 	grins 	
[11:41]	:	LL has backups.. we keep getting told they do not.. what multi $$$ company wouldnt?! 	
[11:41]	:	Stormi, and that's a compelling reason for us to make a decision and announce it. :) As soon as we feel able to commit to a decision we will 	
[11:41]	:	I thought you only drank "green" tea? :D 	
[11:41]	:	i am verry afraid, Equinox. i have quiet of them. 	
[11:41]	:	But I totally get what you're saying 	
[11:41]	:	Thank you, Jack 	
[11:41]	:	jack, how do you calculate the ERP (formula?), and what is the minimum value of the ERP to be in the beta program? 	
[11:41]	:	ERP? 	
[11:42]	:	they cannot afford another fiasko stormi..and it would be one next july if they dont step back 	
[11:42]	:	FRE* 	
[11:42]	:	i pray you are right, Equinox 	
[11:42]	:	Zoha, do you mean in terms of the estate programs? 	
[11:42]	:	:) 	
[11:42]	:	yes 	
[11:42]	 	smiles 	
[11:42]	:	Heh.. They can afford fiascos... they practically manufacture them. :D 	
[11:42]	:	You know, I'm afraid it could work quite the opposite, they can't afford NOT to have another fiasco, as the past fiascos were driven from all appearances by a need for cash flow. 	
[11:42]	:	LOL Tal 	
[11:42]	:	lol tal 	
[11:43]	:	I believe the criteria they are using is the number of 'full region equivalents'. You can think of it as the number of CPUs if that makes it easier. So a homestead would be 0.25 whereas a full region would be 1 	
[11:43]	:	ohh...i just got an email too zoha :) 	
[11:43]	:	makes sense to me 	
[11:43]	:	So, 80 homesteads would be 20 	
[11:43]	:	and what has the end result need to be to be in the program ? 	
[11:43]	:	woot Equi 	
[11:43]	:	woohoo we are moving on up, Equinox! 	
[11:44]	:	lol 	
[11:44]	:	<<still waiting on an e-mail 	
[11:44]	:	Ah in fact, correction.. we're counting 3 homesteads = 1 full region 	
[11:44]	:	4 openspaces = 1 full region 	
[11:44]	:	Out of curiosity do Openspaces fall into that equation, and if so, how? 	
[11:44]	:	<- waiting 	
[11:44]	:	but i o hope you will consider small estates too jack :P 	
[11:44]	:	that was what I was going to ask Jack, thank you 	
[11:44]	:	k, there you go 	
[11:44]	:	so that's the way they are calculating it 	
[11:44]	:	what has tobe the minimum value to be in the program? 	
[11:44]	:	well how can an HSand an OS both be equivalent to 0.25 CPU? 	
[11:44]	:	So, full region = 1, Homestead = 1/3, and OpenSpace = 1/4 	
[11:45]	:	that's right Tal 	
[11:45]	:	Quoting here " 	
[11:43]	:	I believe the criteria they are using is the number of 'full region equivalents'. You can think of it as the number of CPUs if that makes it easier. So a homestead would be 0.25 whereas a full region would be 1" 	
[11:45]	:	So, what's the target FRE value for beta? 	
[11:45]	:	Sunrunner, that was corrected a few lines down 	
[11:46]	:	Jack do you see LL lowering the tier to the openspaces being they are really used for additional water only? 	
[11:46]	:	btw....have you any plans to put only 3 HS on a CPU jack...or will it stay 4 	
[11:46]	:	k, ty Barney 	
[11:46]	 	 	
[11:44]	:	Ah in fact, correction.. we're counting 3 homesteads = 1 full region 	
[11:44]	:	4 openspaces = 1 full region 	
[11:46]	:	and the fact you cant deed them to a group making them nearly useless 	
[11:46]	:	Jack corrected Bronson 3:1 	
[11:46]	:	<--- afk, sim counting 	
[11:46]	:	hmm..how many "openspaces" are on the grid jack 	
[11:46]	:	Stormi, we've no plans in that direction right now. But others have made that same point 	
[11:46]	:	yep 	
[11:47]	:	they are wonderful for additional water to an estate. But can't rent them or anything. So the estate eats the tier on the OS 	
[11:47]	:	Well, no, LL actually do better to make estates and homesteads very expensive for individuals and relatively cheap for large continental barons. That way they only have to deal with a few "customers" and those baronial staffs have to deal with the rest of us. 	
[11:47]	:	Tal, i think the cutoff is 20 	
[11:47]	:	OK, that should answer folks' questions, then 	
[11:47]	:	Last time I looked there were about 250 openspaces 	
[11:47]	:	Other than "I exceed 20! Why wasn't I included?" 	
[11:47]	:	Thank you, Jack 	
[11:47]	:	ok thanks 	
[11:48]	:	..which is a valid question. Not intending to demean it; just being proper. :) 	
[11:48]	:	20 seems kind of low 	
[11:48]	:	yousaid ones you want to make new sims...any news on that jack 	
[11:48]	:	to me 	
[11:48]	:	Any chance at all of making a new region with 7500 prims? 	
[11:48]	:	No Equinox, no news as far as new products go. 	
[11:48]	:	there should not be a cut off just a policy 	
[11:48]	:	i get so many wanting/needing 7500 prims but 15,000 is too many 	
[11:49]	:	ok thanks 	
[11:49]	:	We seems to have seen a lot of tech issues lately Jack - after what I recall as a nice long period of a calm grid, is there's a reason for that or is it just one of those wierd flukes? 	
[11:49]	:	1024sims please 	
[11:49]	:	That ain't gonna happen Ciera 	
[11:49]	:	(knows) 	
[11:49]	:	yah really 	
[11:49]	:	I cast another vote for a 7500 prim sim. Very much needed. 	
[11:49]	:	true motor...sims FPS dropping for no reason...happends often lately 	
[11:49]	:	yes, very much so 	
[11:50]	:	Yes Jack, there seesm to be LOADS more grid issues of late. We were in heaven for a while and now it seems that there is a new issue daily again 	
[11:50]	:	Motor, great question. We have had hugely better stability overall in 09, but we're constantly working on the infrastructure so we do hit issues. And sometimes providers that we use have issues that impact us too 	
[11:50]	:	well....questions....what tier will they ask for if a 3750 prim one is 125 usd :) 	
[11:50]	:	I thought Homesteads should've been reduced to running 3 to a processor when the price increased 	
[11:50]	:	but that ain't gonna happen either 	
[11:50]	:	A new offering of 2 to a processor and supporting 7500 prims might be nice though 	
[11:51]	:	For a 7500 prim one? Prolly $195 	
[11:51]	:	I could buy those all day long, Khamon. 	
[11:51]	:	I remember reading about internal fiberoptics being set up, is that still in progress - or not started yet - or have we / will we see/feel a difference as a result of this upgrade? 	
[11:51]	:	That's not totally off the table Khamon, but oit's a big investment to do it. 	
[11:51]	:	if the price was 500 usd 	
[11:51]	:	lol stromi 	
[11:51]	:	The fibernet thing is done 	
[11:51]	:	Just a FYI for u all, LL does NOT control there Band, the Provider does, , ( they need a OC-192 Upgrade ) i think 	
[11:52]	:	Khamon, that's interesting.. do you think it sufficiently different to sit as a product between full regions and homesteads? 	
[11:52]	:	I think that'd be the safest way for y'all to market it. 	
[11:52]	:	you can call it urban 	
[11:52]	:	Yes Jack, I do 	
[11:52]	:	many people would lovea 7500 sim jack...with th righttier of course :) 	
[11:52]	:	I think ALOT of 7500 sims would be sold 	
[11:52]	:	A Burbclave product hehe 	
[11:52]	:	Not to stir the pot, but.... is anything being done about viewers being able to bypass estate bans? 	
[11:52]	 	agrees 	
[11:52]	:	it would be a wonderful addition to the options! 	
[11:52]	:	Yes, i would LOVE regions with 7500 prims 	
[11:52]	:	I agree Mel. 	
[11:53]	:	I could sell loads of them 	
[11:53]	:	stir it I want to know also 	
[11:53]	:	yes Mel 	
[11:53]	:	yeah, sign me in too :) 	
[11:53]	:	me too :) 	
[11:53]	:	Would you be able to purchase one without owning a full prim sim? 	
[11:53]	:	OK Jack, that is settled. When you are done here, go tell the team to get going on the 7500 prim sims. Thanks lovesya 	
[11:53]	:	good questions drifwood :) 	
[11:53]	:	AHHAahHAHahAHHA 	
[11:53]	:	*-*r0fl*-* 	
[11:53]	:	lol to Melody 	
[11:53]	:	lol melody 	
[11:53]	:	one step away from making full sims obsolete 	
[11:54]	:	Sunrunner, yeah we're aware of it and as estate bans should be a server side control we'll be looking at fixing it 	
[11:54]	:	driftwood is thinking like me. 	
[11:54]	:	no, I htink full sim ownership should always be a requiermet 	
[11:54]	:	its obvious by the popularity of Homesteads people want privacy. But for 7500 prims they have to have neighbors. This is the reason i dont do well filling full prims. They want privacy and control. 7500 prims would take care of this and more affordable. 	
[11:54]	:	heh thanks Melody 	
[11:54]	:	agree driftwood 	
[11:54]	:	i have an idea on HOW to fic it 	
[11:54]	:	fix* 	
[11:54]	:	Full sims wont go obsolete - hell, I can still run low on prims just playing around with 15K prims 	
[11:54]	:	kill all 3rd partty viewers 	
[11:54]	:	So this 7500 prim product, you'd still see that having a lock in with a full region owned? 	
[11:54]	:	And Anshe would be so pissed, seeing as she has just forked out a ton on 3750's 	
[11:55]	:	yes Jack 	
[11:55]	:	yesah >^.^< Jack 	
[11:55]	:	I haven't looked, but please don't tell me that bans work by the sim telling the viewer "you can't be here", and the viewer going "OK, I'll leave"... >.> 	
[11:55]	:	Yes, Jack. I dont think that should ever change 	
[11:55]	:	how to fic it ha ha ha ha ha 	
[11:55]	:	that shuls ALWAYS be the base 	
[11:55]	:	yes jack..or do you want to deal with 1000 of new customers lol 	
[11:55]	:	a full prim purchase first and always 	
[11:55]	:	yes. you ought to have to own a full to own anything else 	
[11:55]	:	Until someone asks for a 10k sim 	
[11:55]	:	Anshe wouldn't have to worry; LL would convert for her 	
[11:55]	:	read again Khamon I corrected it 	
[11:55]	:	yes to stormi 	
[11:56]	:	actually, i'd image there's also demand for new class of server that can be used for more prims per region and/or handle a much higher prim load - maybe a 256m by 512m region in essence as well 	
[11:56]	:	Jack, I have a support ticket open for the accounting department since august the 9th (+2 months); still saying work in progress, nothing has been done up to now... What do i need to do to get an answer on it? 	
[11:56]	:	it keeps the cluless out and helps the rest of us 	
[11:56]	:	It was still funny 	
[11:56]	:	i know silly :) 	
[11:56]	:	would prefer a sim four times the land mass but 30,000 prims 	
[11:56]	:	swings in roundabouts 	
[11:56]	:	fill a complain ticket zoha..that helps :) 	
[11:56]	:	lol 	
[11:56]	:	I agree with keeping the current full sim requirement before being able to buy lesser sims. 	
[11:56]	:	what about if we allowed an estate owner to sacrifice say agent count for more prims? If it were more of a menu based pricing? 	
[11:56]	:	great idea jack 	
[11:57]	:	depends on the agent count 	
[11:57]	:	not a good idea jack 	
[11:57]	:	sounds good Jack 	
[11:57]	:	that would work also Jack 	
[11:57]	:	Good to hear that about the estate ban issue Jack - any kind of an estimated time of reslolution? 	
[11:57]	:	might as well buy a HS then 	
[11:57]	:	can I have extra cheese on mine? 	
[11:57]	:	would confuse people more than they already are sometimes 	
[11:57]	:	Why not just sell a la carte computing resources? Wait.. you can't do that with the way the sim software is designed... <.< 	
[11:57]	:	if you can do it also temporary...let say for 3 months or so 	
[11:57]	:	I wold never get a sim that had more than 15K prims but that is just me 	
[11:57]	:	*a much higher script load, i meant to say 	
[11:57]	:	Cut Avi Limit to 20-30 for 7500 Prims 65536sqm 	
[11:57]	:	That would work for me actually, I could stand 5000 prims and a 15 av limit for example on my Homestead. 	
[11:57]	:	Sunrunner sadly not, but i will poke at it 	
[11:57]	:	yes Shawno, 30 max 	
[11:57]	:	agree melody...lag is the problem 	
[11:57]	:	i thought you agreed on the 7500 prims Melody? 	
[11:58]	:	yes give me the 7500 prims 	
[11:58]	:	I will order 10 today 	
[11:58]	:	Land mass is the key to livening the market up. 	
[11:58]	:	oh okay. .me tooooo 	
[11:58]	:	Aren't av limits for Homesteads already set at 20? 	
[11:58]	:	but no 30k prims, never no way 	
[11:58]	:	More space... 	
[11:58]	:	same here Mel.. i would get 5-10 today 	
[11:58]	:	add a scaler slider to the estate.. move it to the left to decrease agents add more prims.. move it to the right less prims more agents 	
[11:58]	:	no i dont want more than 15,000 prims. Hard to rent those already lol 	
[11:58]	:	7500prims/40avs would be perfect 	
[11:58]	:	same cost 	
[11:58]	:	i could use a few 30k ones. 	
[11:58]	:	agree zoha 	
[11:58]	:	agreee Zoha 	
[11:58]	:	30k but on four times the land mass ie four sims 	
[11:58]	:	yes Zoha, I can go for that 	
[11:59]	:	with a normal price and tier :P 	
[11:59]	:	yes :-) 	
[11:59]	:	A hardcoded slider is perfect, same price, even if I change it one week for events and the next week for building 	
[11:59]	:	half price of a 15,000 purchase price and tier 	
[11:59]	:	Jack, you just make the comany 500K usd today in sales. When can we see the product? 	
[11:59]	:	tier a 7500 prim sim @ 195.00? or Less 	
[11:59]	:	It would be an interesting thing to discuss, the idea that you guys can choose how to spend your cpu cycles up to a certain limit, for each product. So if you wanted to spend it all on agents but no prims and no physics, you could choose that yourself 	
[11:59]	:	500 to buy 195 tier 	
[11:59]	:	195 USD is too much 	
[11:59]	:	175 	
[11:59]	:	Or 1 agent and 20k prims etc 	
[11:59]	:	yes 	
[12:00]	:	we need to make money ; not to cheap; lol 	
[12:00]	:	165 or 175 agree melody 	
[12:00]	:	That's a bit more customization and client support than LL are used to providing though. It comes dangerously close to an API. Your World, Your Imagination *is* just a slogan. 	
[12:00]	:	Make me a Linden *bursts out laughing* 	
[12:00]	:	and500 to buy 	
[12:00]	:	No physics wouldn't be a good idea. :P 	
[12:00]	:	There shoudl be a slider bar... Agents===== 	=== Prims
[12:00]	:	oh yah.. 1 agent and 20K prims.. just how many of you need traffic? 	
[12:00]	:	2 on a CPU 	
[12:00]	:	Votes for Mel 	
[12:00]	:	40 agents 	
[12:00]	:	lol 	
[12:00]	:	so, I just want to raise the possibility of 3750 or 7500 prim sims to individuals without a full sim, but at a higher monthly price than to full-sim estates. Not of interest to me, but may make business sense for LL without hurting Estates. 	
[12:01]	:	1 agent 	
[12:01]	:	lol 	
[12:01]	:	lol 	
[12:01]	:	this is curning on a huge scale 	
[12:01]	:	lol 	
[12:01]	:	Yeah Barney, that sort of tradeoff. Full region would have much more to play with of course 	
[12:01]	:	churning 	
[12:01]	:	so jack...can you make that happend till next week *g* 	
[12:01]	:	read what jack said 	
[12:01]	:	same thing as Open Space to homesteads 	
[12:01]	:	everyone was so angry at that change 	
[12:01]	:	No Que, full sim requirment should stay in place 	
[12:01]	:	hehe equinox 	
[12:01]	:	Remember Qie, they don't want a repeat of thousands of people buying and "abusing" low cost sims. 	
[12:01]	:	now we want to go again? 	
[12:01]	:	:) 	
[12:02]	:	Land mass isn't the key to livening the economy, people are. Are there new sign-ups? when's that brave new viewer coming online that is supposed to cause a surge in sign-ups? 	
[12:02]	:	Okay guys, I should head back to my holiday.. thank you all for coming along, some really interesting ideas this week 	
[12:02]	:	But didn't that abuse happen even with the full-sim ownership limit in place? Or am I misremembering? 	
[12:02]	:	Thanks for hosting Jack 	
[12:02]	:	Ciao, Jack. 	
[12:02]	:	thanks, Jack!! 	
[12:02]	:	Thank you Jack 	
[12:02]	:	take care jack 	
[12:02]	:	Yes, go rest old man ;) 	
[12:02]	:	We wil be here again Next Week jack. Enjoy the holiday 	
[12:02]	:	hehe 	
[12:02]	:	well.. 	
[12:02]	:	enjoy the vaca :) 	
[12:02]	:	Still no e-mail , Jack 	
[12:02]	:	:) bye 	
[12:02]	:	take care 	
[12:02]	:	thank you jack :) look at my resume I turned in 	
[12:02]	:	It did yes, might be loads worse if just anybody could rent them though 	
[12:03]	:	i won't be here next week. I am having my first break in about 2 years 	
[12:03]	:	BUY I should say BUY 	
[12:03]	:	We own these sims yeah? 	
[12:03]	:	so I will be somewhere without an internet connection 	
[12:03]	:	WE OWN THIS LAND!!1 	
[12:03]	:	which is terrifying 	
[12:03]	:	oh that sounds great! 	
[12:03]	:	We will send you one anyway :D 	
[12:03]	:	must be a scary place Jack 	
[12:03]	:	Take care Jack, have a good one 	
[12:03]	:	Thanks Jack 	
[12:03]	:	I bought a laptop just for SL 	
[12:03]	:	Enjoy Jack 	
[12:03]	:	augh!! good luck Jack :) 	
[12:03]	:	good luck over there, lol 	
[12:03]	:	be well folks, see you in two weeks 	
[12:03]	:	you must be going to Newcastle 	
[12:03]	:	heh 	
[12:03]	:	It could be worse; you could have to spend your vacation digitized into SL :D 	
[12:03]	 	giggles. 	
[12:03]	:	taking any coals? 	
[12:03]	:	Who is this Prokofy person that keeps butting into the conversation? 	
[12:04]	:	byeeeeee 	
[12:04]	:	and hes gone... 	
[12:04]	:	Yeah, I didn't see much fire and brimstone today.. Prokofy, I swear you're going soft! :D 	
[12:04]	:	I'm having to work in the other window 	
[12:04]	:	lol 	
[12:04]	:	We're all soft. 	
[12:04]	:	office guys 	
[12:04]	:	don['t quit that day job would be my advice 	
[12:05]	:	heading back to the office... 	
[12:05]	:	see ya there :) 	
[12:05]	:	It's not worth being all Intrawebz over. 	
[12:05]	:	yeah, but Prokofy was almost downright cuddly today. :D 	
[12:05]	:	bye byes 	
[12:05]	:	I was working too 	
[12:05]	:	but then I drank some coffee 	
[12:06]	:	bye everyone 	
[12:06]	:	take care everyone, back to the sandbars 	
[12:06]	:	I think a hard coded slider would really work 	
[12:06]	:	Me too, that's a great idea 	
 
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