WindLight/Office Hours/2007-12-13

Zen Linden: Howdy howdy
ushinisha DeCuir: hello Pastrami
ushinisha DeCuir: hello Zen
Torley Linden: Friendly greetings!
JetZep Zabelin: SL kinda runs on Hawaiian time
ushinisha DeCuir whinnies happily.
JetZep Zabelin: =)
ushinisha DeCuir: hi Torley
JetZep Zabelin: hiya Torley.. cool av!
Torley Linden: Oh darn Pastrami, I'm getting group IM errors.
JetZep Zabelin: hi Zen
Zen Linden: heya
Torley Linden: Hey ushinisha, Kippie, Stephen, JetZep!
ushinisha DeCuir: can i ask one thing?
Stephen Zenith: dammit, shoes up butt!
Pastrami Linden: hey who has the sign to IM me?
JetZep Zabelin: lol, stephen just on your screen
Torley Linden: Jeremy made that.
Jakyl Lightfoot: Watch out being stepping on >.<
Torley Linden: I don't see him around right now...
Torley Linden: Oh he's online!
Torley Linden: *pings*
Torley Linden: Hmmm I'm still noticing nametags disappear intermittently.
Vanessa Eckersley: Sorry if I bumped into someone
Vanessa Eckersley: Hi to all
Jakyl Lightfoot: Hiyas Torley, Pastrami, Zen, Brad, and whoever else hasn't rezzed to me yet ^^
Torley Linden: Hiyas Jakyl!
ushinisha DeCuir whinnies happily.
Torley Linden: Good to see you all here, Team WindLight is assembling... and soon we will become a giant robot and fight for the forces of Great Justice!
Vanessa Eckersley: :D
You decline Italian Mood, Yudasin (18, 20, 45) from A group member named KevinMThomas Carpool.
JetZep Zabelin: =) hehe
Jakyl Lightfoot needs a Mac... just has Nuuuuu! funds >.<
Vanessa Eckersley: hehe
Tiny Hickman hopes he hasn't squashed anyone
Pastrami Linden: Alright all, feel free to IM me questions
Tiny Hickman: Will move when everything rezzes/renders
Jakyl Lightfoot: Your a living, breathing, oxymoron Tiny =o
Tiny Hickman: I ressemble that
Jakyl Lightfoot: :D
Torley Linden: What a great group of avatars we have here.
Linegirl McMillan: Hi Tali :)
Tao Takashi: Hi
Italiyia Capalini: hi sweetie
Torley Linden: I like that sign, even more that it glows, Jeremy.
Jeremy Linden: :-D
Pastrami Linden: Stephen Zenith: hi, any progress on VWR-3166 - WindLight: Black flickering "cubes" in sky and water when Atmospheric Shaders are on?
Pastrami Linden: hmm, we haven't looked at it yet,
Tao Takashi: so group IM revelaed why I saw that many green dots here when browsing the map
Stephen Zenith: i know Torley's had a look at that one
Torley Linden: Haha Tao. Your curiosity indulged!
Pastrami Linden: but I think it may have gone away with all the other shader linking issues we're tackling
Stephen Zenith: Pastrami -i'm seeing it right this second
Torley Linden: Those black cubes look weird/annoying. :\
Pastrami Linden: right, Stephen- I mean with the internal code we have
Tao Takashi: well, at least I got windlight now to run on this computer by removing settings.ini
Pastrami Linden: Stephen, what's your GPU?
Stephen Zenith: it's a geforce 8600GT
Pastrami Linden: you on a mac book?
Stephen Zenith: most of the respondants in the jira are on 8xxx series
Stephen Zenith: no, linux
Pastrami Linden: hmm - Torley, do we have an internal version of that?
Torley Linden: Yes we do Pastrami.
Stephen Zenith: DEV-6489 :)
aliceinwire Bleac: hello everyone
Pastrami Linden: I remember seeing it on pjira-
Pastrami Linden: lemme take a look at progress on it
Torley Linden: Thanks for bringing it up, Stephen, I'll make a note that you raised the issue today too.
Stephen Zenith: k, thanks :)
Torley Linden: Hmm yeah it should be higher priority Pastrami.
aliceinwire Bleac: hello torley :)
aliceinwire Bleac: oooh kirby :D
Pastrami Linden: alright
Pastrami Linden: while I check that.....
Torley Linden: Hello aliceinwire.
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha DeCuir: mine is basic, are you going to talk abot the development of windlight, or are you triying to help to use it?
Torley Linden: Good to see you all here!
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha-
Pastrami Linden: we're here to answer any of your questions!
aliceinwire Bleac: i prefer the avi you have used in with me benjamin and erica
Pastrami Linden: if it's about future dev, questions - anything
aliceinwire Bleac: you remember?
Torley Linden: Hehe aliceinwire, which ones was that, do you remember? I can change.
Pastrami Linden: my cue is empty folks - ask away!
aliceinwire Bleac: what dinosors are bigpapi ?
BigPapi Linden: IM questions to Pastrami!
Tiny Hickman: What has been the problem with the random triangles being drawn in the windlight viewer?
BigPapi Linden: alice: Compsognathus
aliceinwire Bleac: ooh
Torley Linden: Random triangles? Same as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3258 , Tiny?
Torley Linden: AKA "WindLight: Performance drops and triangle rendering glitches on some ATI cards with VBO on"
Tao Takashi: IM answers to me, I will hide them! ;-)
Tiny Hickman: Yes
Tiny Hickman: It still happens with the latest release
Tiny Hickman: But considerably less often
Pastrami Linden: Tao Takashi: so a question: there is some extra project coming regarding clouds right? Because now I sometimes cannot differ between clouds and sky depending on the settings
Pastrami Linden: Tao, we did invent Nimble at our former company:
Tao Takashi: basically they do not look 3d enough to me is what I mean
Pastrami Linden: http://youtube.com/watch?v=pLfHDul5XGw
Pastrami Linden: and Linden now bought this-
BigPapi Linden: You're also referring to the fact that the fallback sky rendering (for low level cards, it's the "low" preference), does NOT currently render WindLight's 2d clouds
Pastrami Linden: but it will be a while before we integrate it
Drew Dzieciol: so soon windlight will have Nimble clouds?
Stephen Zenith can't wait for nimble :)
BigPapi Linden: Not soon
BigPapi Linden: But yes.
Tao Takashi: well, I see clouds
Tao Takashi: but from the structure they are sort of the same as the sky, so I have two colors there but am confused what is supposed to be sky and what is supposed to be cloud
Bridle_HUD whispers: ushinisha DeCuir is now equiped with Bridle_HUD.
Pastrami Linden: Tao, do you also have 3D clouds?
Pastrami Linden: like, the old clouds?
Pastrami Linden: because you can turn those on
Tao Takashi: I know
Tao Takashi: but I usually have switched them off
Pastrami Linden: yeah, so those "other" clouds are only "painted" onto the sky
Tao Takashi: I know, I was probably just asking for Nimble ;-)
Pastrami Linden: haha
Tao Takashi: it would maybe also look better though if those 2d clouds would have a different form
Stephen Zenith: don't blame you, it looks amazing
Tao Takashi: but I guess this is somewhat dependant on the pattern algorithm you use there
Drew Dzieciol: I'm not sure if this is an issue with Windlight or with the regular SL client as well, but for the last month or so I haven't been able to stream music on voice without it cutting in and out and breaking up.
Tao Takashi: and maybe it's more an issue with dark clouds
Tao Takashi: that was when I was noticing that
aliceinwire Bleac: uuuuh my first comment on flickr :D
Pastrami Linden: Drew, likely not our fault ;)
Tao Takashi: like here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/taotakashi/2105292473/
Pastrami Linden: Stephen Zenith: when you said earlier about the work on the shader linkers, am I right in assuming that's related to the issues with the latest nvidia beta drivers?
Pastrami Linden: Zen?
Tao Takashi: in this shot it's not that clear what is cloud and what is sky
Stephen Zenith: heh heh, good to see teflon shoulders in action :p
Tao Takashi: but I guess I will simply wait for Nimble :)
Pastrami Linden: Tao, those clodus are merely a preset issue
Pastrami Linden: Zen, you want to address his question?
Tao Takashi: well, maybe I need to work more on my sliders but I actually did this ;-)
Zen Linden: sorry
Pastrami Linden: Stephen Zenith: when you said earlier about the work on the shader linkers, am I right in assuming that's related to the issues with the latest nvidia beta drivers?
Tao Takashi: anyway, that was just something I noticed, not too important
Stephen Zenith: lol, we all know how absorbing edit mode can be :)
Torley Linden: *takes notes*
Jakyl Lightfoot eeps. brb, Need to give the computer a restart >.<
Jakyl Lightfoot: >.>
Zen Linden: sorry, network connection problems. THe linker issues are related to both nvidia's beta drivers
Zen Linden: and ati's latest drivers on vista and higher end cards on xp
aliceinwire Bleac: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2181/2054327648_84f722102e_m.jpg
aliceinwire Bleac: lol
Zen Linden: neither support GLSL very well
aliceinwire Bleac: i don't think to eat it :P
aliceinwire Bleac: bleah
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/16279 
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha DeCuir: my problem is that i can't run windlight on my pc
Stephen Zenith: yeah, obviously the latest nvidia ones have totally broken it
Zen Linden: i changed the fallbacks for when shaders failed to link
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha, can you not run *the viewer*, or just not the features?
Zen Linden: so as to not see invisible shiny objects
Cybersword Avro: oh crap
ushinisha DeCuir: i just could run it for once and never more
nimrod Yaffle: =O
ushinisha DeCuir: the viwer
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha, what happens?
Jeremy Linden: Sigh. I missed one.
Torley Linden: OMG FIRE!!!!
Tao Takashi: now these are nice clouds ;-)
ushinisha DeCuir: don't connect
Tiny Hickman: Someone do something about rock please?
ushinisha DeCuir: sias that of your best effort blablabla
ushinisha DeCuir: and that i have to visit the blog for see if the grid is online
nimrod Yaffle: I'm such a noob, I can't even sit on these benches
ushinisha DeCuir: (and sorry about me english :P)
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha, what machine did you say? my chat is working slowly
Zen Linden: as is mine
ushinisha DeCuir: is an amd 3200+ with a nvidia 6600 gt
Pastrami Linden: what error are you getting (why can't you run?)
ushinisha DeCuir: and 1.5G of ram
Torley Linden: Haha I like that car, aliceinwire.
aliceinwire Bleac: :D
ushinisha DeCuir: it sais the message of after of do our best effort someting wrong happen
ushinisha DeCuir: and then puts the url for see if the grid is online
Pastrami Linden: hmm, there's a ton of things that could cause that error message, unfortunately-
Zen Linden: hmm, i haven't run into any problems on my 6600 gt with amd 3000 at home.
aliceinwire Bleac: :)
ushinisha DeCuir: i could run it for once... and never more
Pastrami Linden: our latest version coming out soon (with 1.18.6 merged in) will have better bug tracking
aliceinwire Bleac: but is only for sl volunteers ihih
Pastrami Linden: hmm, unishina, if that's the case,
nimrod Yaffle: O_o
Pastrami Linden: you may need to delete some app settings
Pastrami Linden: Zen?
Torley Linden: ushinisha: General basic advice, did you do a total uninstall and cleanly reinstall Second Life? And does this happen with the non-WindLight viewer too?
ushinisha DeCuir: uhmmm... ?? lol
Elle Pollack: Yikes...I tabbed away and when I tabbeb back my camera was in the water
Pastrami Linden: Torley, my thoughts exactly
You decline CATs CLUB Plush Tau (85, 199, 21) from A group member named Thumper Boucher.
Zen Linden: torley offers the best suggestion
ushinisha DeCuir: wait wait!
ushinisha DeCuir: i can use the normal viwer
ushinisha DeCuir: and the releaser can't remember the name
Pastrami Linden: Torley, can you point unshinisha to a good article on this?
ushinisha DeCuir: only fails the windlight
ushinisha DeCuir: and yes i reinstalled for 4 times the windlight
ushinisha DeCuir: clearing everything
Zen Linden: did you uninstall first?
Stephen Zenith: did you delete all your settings?
Torley Linden: ushinisha, you deleted the "SecondLife" folder in C:\Documents and Settings\[USERNAME]\Application Data (or similar directory) too?
ushinisha DeCuir: ywep
ushinisha DeCuir: yep
ushinisha DeCuir: yes yes
Pastrami Linden: ushinisha, did you also uninstall the release viewer?
ushinisha DeCuir: i unsinstall all the viwer completly
Pastrami Linden: huh
Zen Linden: i'm baffled
Pastrami Linden: that is weird
Pastrami Linden: especially since you ran it once-
Pastrami Linden: I'd say this-
Pastrami Linden: keep getting the updates-
Pastrami Linden: actually, when was the last time you downloaded it?
ushinisha DeCuir: uhmm
ushinisha DeCuir: this morning
ushinisha DeCuir: lol
Pastrami Linden: alright
aliceinwire Bleac: RenderDynamicLOD =false RenderFarClip =32 RenderUseFarClip =False WlSkyDetail = 15 RenderAvatarVP = false RenderGammaFull =false RenderReflectionDetail =2 RenderTerrainDetail = 0 RenderWaterRefResolution =128 Vertex VBO =enable ........ memory buff 512....All dettalis set to Mid Range
ushinisha DeCuir: 12 hours ago
Pastrami Linden: keep getting the latest ones,
Pastrami Linden: and showing up to our office hours ;)
aliceinwire Bleac: the best ati windlight settings
Torley Linden: ushinisha, the error you mentioned may have been related to problems in http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/12/13/various-regions-inaccessible-at-present/ earlier.
Torley Linden: If you have the exact error message and it's still happening *now* that may be of use.
blogHUD Messenger: Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/16280 
Pastrami Linden: either we'll fix it or you showing up each time will make us do it even faster ;)
ushinisha DeCuir: my error is getting for one month
ushinisha DeCuir: is not just for today
Torley Linden: Hm, that sounds pretty odd.
Torley Linden: I do hope you'll be able to use WindLight again. =)
Pastrami Linden: yeah, I'd say keep downloading the new ones-
Tao Takashi wonders when we will get big waves like in Linden World ;-)
Pastrami Linden: and coming to our office hours
ushinisha DeCuir: ok thanks all!
Dravyn HUD: 2462 bytes free
Dravyn HUD: Ramming disabled
Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
Connected
Entering god mode, level 200
Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
Connected
Dravyn HUD: 2462 bytes free
Dravyn HUD: Ramming disabled
Drew Dzieciol: ty for link
Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
Connected
Torley Linden: Pardon, I crashed. Am back now. =)
Torley Linden: Crashed while taking a snapshot, argh!
Tiny Hickman: wb :)
Pastrami Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/WindLight#Frequently_Asked_Questions
Pastrami Linden: (Tao)
aliceinwire Bleac: fantastic linden world
Torley Linden: We're going to keep updating that FAQ too... promise!
JetZep Zabelin: =)
Pastrami Linden: Drew Dzieciol: So the problems with voice are the voice vendor's fault?
aliceinwire Bleac: but second life is born like a shoot game ??
Pastrami Linden: Drew, tough to say- but it's almost certainly not the grpahics code!
Pastrami Linden: ^graphics
Torley Linden: I've heard a few related problems of WindLight + voice but nothing substantiated yet...
Pastrami Linden: Drew Dzieciol: I also remember when the first Windlight came out long ago that there was talk about being able to add or change Celestial objects, will we be able to do that soon?
Torley Linden: Drew, you may wanna see: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3475
Pastrami Linden: Drew, though I think it'd be cool, we probably want to focus our next efforts on things liek materials or trees
Drew Dzieciol: ty Torley
Pastrami Linden: we're doing everything round-robin
Pastrami Linden: (make A better, move to B, etc.)
Pastrami Linden: some letters of the alphabet need a lot of lvoe right now!
Drew Dzieciol: what do you meanmaterials or trees?
Torley Linden: It's kinda like one of those Final Fantasy summon attacks.
Drew Dzieciol: trees willl look better soon? that would be great
Pastrami Linden: materials - more options for things like normal maps and multitexturing
Tao Takashi: great :)
Stephen Zenith: woohoo!
Stephen Zenith: multitextures
Pastrami Linden: trees = trees ;)
Pastrami Linden: better
Pastrami Linden: faster
Pastrami Linden: stronger
Pastrami Linden: greener
Pastrami Linden: chlorophyller
Tao Takashi: more bio ;-)
Drew Dzieciol: thank God!
Vanessa Eckersley: lol
Torley Linden: Like that Daft Punk song, only more arboreal.
Stephen Zenith: lol
aliceinwire Bleac: :D
Drew Dzieciol: the trees need upgrading!
Pastrami Linden: LOL Torley
Pastrami Linden: or Kanye
Chaos Markstein: yes they do
Stephen Zenith: gonna do anything with the speedtree license?
Tao Takashi: tree++ you mean?
Elle Pollack: Materials is 3d lingo for the surface properties of a 3d object...the texture on it, shiny effects, bumpmap effects, etc
Chaos Markstein: they look awful and i had to remove them from my sim and replace them with my own
Pastrami Linden: maybe Stephen, just maybe.... ;)
Drew Dzieciol: ty elle and Pastrami
Chaos Markstein: is there going to be an option to make alpha textures opaque
aliceinwire Bleac: :D
Tao Takashi: what about animals? ;-)
Pastrami Linden: I noticed something odd. On some islands I get the default terrain textures instead of the custom ones
Torley Linden: How so exactly Chaos?
Tao Takashi: when there are better trees we might have birds
Pastrami Linden: Vanessa Eckersley: I'm on an intel iMac [13:24] Vanessa Eckersley: with an ATI HD2600 [13:24] Vanessa Eckersley: under 10.5
JetZep Zabelin: the alpha feathering on the trees seems to have been lost in windlight
Stephen Zenith: pastrami - did you file it on Jira? :p
Chaos Markstein: like your tree textures
Torley Linden: Alpha textures currently go opaque at further distances but we've received varied feedback in response to this.
Chaos Markstein: they are opaque
Drew Dzieciol: Yes, on my land I had to replace my trees with big prim 20 x 20 ones with better textures
Torley Linden: Chaos, see: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3101
Jeremy Linden: The eyes... they follow me everywhere!
Cybersword Avro: What i've noticed is that when i'm driving around in my really fast car and i go up in the air and come back down i tend to go through the ground and end up glitching
JetZep Zabelin: lol
Torley Linden: OMG BIG EYES! Can you please move back a little, BIG EYES, so others can see the stage easily? =)
Tao Takashi: so what was xeyes before is now sleyes maybe
Stephen Zenith: lol
Torley Linden: AKA SensualSusan Short with the BIG EYES. =)
SensualSusan Short: greetings
Stephen Zenith: Tao, you juts need to explain to 75% of the people here what xeyes is/was :)
Elle Pollack: Cyber, that would be something to bug the physics people about, particaruly those working on Havok 4 ^,^
Pastrami Linden: Vanessa-
Pastrami Linden: we have some serious known issues with iMacs
Tao Takashi: so xeyes = some eyes following your mouse pointer on the desktop
Torley Linden: There are Havok4 Office Hours too! See: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
Vanessa Eckersley: ok, good to know
Pastrami Linden: we ordered one and should be debugging soon
SensualSusan Short: lol
Tao Takashi: I guess so you know where your mouse is
Chaos Markstein: what new goodies are we going to see once windlight has become mainstream?
Vanessa Eckersley: great to hear :)
Tao Takashi: in RL we know xeyes as CCTV ;-)
Stephen Zenith: lol
Tao Takashi: so government knows where their residents are
Tao Takashi: anyway, different discussion
aliceinwire Bleac: wow
SensualSusan Short: omg, th whole linden family, the guys that didnt let me sleep 4 24 hrs
Torley Linden: Please remember to IM questions to Pastrami Linden. :o)
Torley Linden: He'll be answering them in turn.
aliceinwire Bleac: :D
Torley Linden: H/W
Tao Takashi: just thinking of a question ;-)
Tao Takashi: the big wave one is probably no real question ;-)
Pastrami Linden: Elle Pollack: I asked Birdie this yesrerday, but can we have a few bug triage meetings dedicated to windlight soon? Office hours are great but the triage-style sessions are best for going through Jira stuff
Pastrami Linden: Torley< i've never done one of these- thoughts?
Torley Linden: Hmmm! *thinks*
Vanessa Eckersley: /:D
Torley Linden: Elle, would you like to help create a suggested agenda?
Torley Linden: Right now I'm seeing a lot of the PJIRA issues are duplicates, or aren't objectively actionable...
Elle Pollack: Sure. I allready have a search filter with that in mind
Torley Linden: e.g., a lot of the aesthetic stuff which can be discussed, but isn't likely to find a simple resolution. If there's hot particular issues we should know about, always feel free to let me know so I can import it for Team WindLight's care...
Pastrami Linden: what happens during one of these triages?
Torley Linden: Pastrami, there's a queue of bugs and we go through them one after another.
Torley Linden: Marking each with a resolution, or if substantiated, importing it...
aliceinwire Bleac: :)
Pastrami Linden: interesting
Torley Linden: having our community's help to get "more eyes" on some of these problems...
Zen Linden: very
Torley Linden: E.g., http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage
aliceinwire Bleac: and at the end there is the resolution
aliceinwire Bleac: final resolution :P
Torley Linden: But I caution that one reason why Bridie moved from Viewer Crashes triages to Release Candidate ones was because a lot of the Viewer Crashes ones didn't have good info, weren't easy to repro, were dupes, etc.
Tao Takashi: at the end everything is fixed ;-)
Pastrami Linden: well, right-
Torley Linden: So we'd really have to have NICE MEATY CHUNKS of WindLight that our Team would work with.
JetZep Zabelin thinks bug triages are good for everyone
Chaos Markstein: hey thats just reminded me, there is a bug where the image displaces you can see the otherside
Chaos Markstein: it kind of wraps
Torley Linden: Otherwise I suggest keep bringing up specific hot issues here.
Pastrami Linden: the thing is we're busy as heck as it is on the big ones (wash out, ATI and Leopard issues, etc.)
aliceinwire Bleac: yeah i love bug triagges office :)
Tao Takashi: my main issue is just with one cmpt where there is either sky or water good looking
Pastrami Linden: I don' tknwo if a triage will do mroe than just highlight the work we already have to do :\
Tao Takashi: but this should be reported
Pastrami Linden: tell you what guys -
Pastrami Linden: we should hold a bug triage, but not yet
Torley Linden: I'm largely concerned now with crucial stuff that isn't already on our radar, Elle... please always, always let me know if you catch something, your help with the Meta-Issues has really been appreciated.
Pastrami Linden: right
Pastrami Linden: I think the idea is good
Torley Linden: I can always be emailed at torley at lindenlab dot com and I'll bring that to our whole Team WindLight's attention.
Pastrami Linden: but we have some glaring ones now
Pastrami Linden: Drew Dzieciol: When do you expect the washed out avatars and textures to be fixed?
Elle Pollack noddles
Torley Linden: Thanx for bringing it up Elle! =D
Pastrami Linden: not this next release, but the next one
Torley Linden: Ahhh Drew, THAT QUESTION!
aliceinwire Bleac: this is the jira coin :)
JetZep Zabelin: hehe
Chaos Markstein: when will the estate settings be rolled out?
Drew Dzieciol: awesome! that will help convert my friends that won't currently use windlight because they are so vain lol
Tao Takashi: as a next project :)
Zen Linden: chaos: questions go through pastrami
Zen Linden: send him an im
Pastrami Linden: Vanessa Eckersley: Another question. now that water can actually 'reflect' things/avies, is it planned to have the same ability for shiny objects?
Torley Linden: And it's a fitting, popular one... for anyone who doesn't know (and some of these questions are on our FAQ because we're answered them at previous Office Hours), please see: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight#What_are_you_doing_about_WindLight_looking_.22wrong.22.3F and other info on that page.
Elle Pollack: A side note on this topic, for builders...if you're texturing stuff and having trouble seeing because of the bright sun and dark shadows, make a windlight preset that's no sunlight and all ambient light.
BigPapi Linden: Vanessa: not really
Pastrami Linden: Elle, good idea-
Torley Linden: Good tip Elle, I added a note about ambient lighting to the FAQ too the other day.
Jira URL-er v1.2: Invalid format
BigPapi Linden: Possibly as part of materials, but full dynamic reflections are EXTREMELY computationally expensive.
Torley Linden: Elle, do you have any choice presets you wanna send me?
Pastrami Linden: and I will include a "Builders'" preset in my next collection!
Jira URL-er v1.2: Invalid format
Vanessa Eckersley: I konw
Torley Linden: Ooh good idea Pastrami.
Vanessa Eckersley: but that is tempting :D
Pastrami Linden: we get it a lot
Pastrami Linden: Torley, think we should FAQify Vanessa's question?
Torley Linden: Pastrami, that sounds like it'd also be useful for those who want their avatars to look more "flat".
Elle Pollack: Torley, I can email the afformentioned build preset...it's a file in the SL folder, right?
Vanessa Eckersley: I suppose so
Brad Linden: furthermore the dynamic relflections functionality was difficult to get compatible across a wide variety of hardware
Torley Linden: Yup Pastrami.
Pastrami Linden: Tao Takashi: will we also get shadows at some point?
Pastrami Linden: at some point :)
Tao Takashi: so we need to wait some gfx cards iterations?
Vanessa Eckersley: thanks :)
Torley Linden: Elle: Yeah, where to find presets is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Windlight#Torley.27s_WindLight_settings
Elle Pollack: And when they're tradeable assets then it will be even easier ^.^
Torley Linden: In the "usual install directories" section.
Torley Linden: Yup yup!
Pastrami Linden: right
Pastrami Linden: queue is empty
Tao Takashi: LSL access might also be cool
Torley Linden: Quick, load Pastrami up with more questions so we can give you answers! =^_^=
Jeremy Linden cheers for LSL access.
Torley Linden: Tao, yes, we're planning that too.
Torley Linden: :D
Zen Linden: Tao: yep, it would.
Tao Takashi: damn, I cannot come up with a new thing ;-)
Torley Linden remembers the first discussions I had with Zen on that topic.
Giovanna Delphin whispers: Online status display enabled.
Kirey Rang whispers: Online status display enabled.
robispy Barbosa whispers: Online status display enabled.
Angela Beerbaum whispers: Online status display enabled.
Mondrian Lykin whispers: Online status display enabled.
Petronilla paperdoll whispers: Online status display enabled.
Mendo Watanabe whispers: Online status display enabled.
Aliceinwore Bleac whispers: Online status display enabled.
SL Mentor Presenze whispers: Online status display enabled.
Akim Alonzo whispers: Online status display enabled.
morris meriman whispers: Online status display enabled.
Lixy Usher whispers: Online status display enabled.
Sacha Bowie whispers: Online status display enabled.
Fata Falta whispers: Online status display enabled.
Oam Aktomica whispers: Online status display enabled.
Michel Lemmon whispers: Online status display enabled.
Kitty Tandino whispers: Online status display enabled.
Aley Winkler whispers: Online status display enabled.
Patty Cioc whispers: Online status display enabled.
Roby Shepherd whispers: Online status display enabled.
Giovanna Delphin whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Kirey Rang whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
robispy Barbosa whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Angela Beerbaum whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Mondrian Lykin whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Petronilla paperdoll whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Mendo Watanabe whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Aliceinwore Bleac whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
SL Mentor Presenze whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Akim Alonzo whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
morris meriman whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Lixy Usher whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Sacha Bowie whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Fata Falta whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Oam Aktomica whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Michel Lemmon whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Kitty Tandino whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Aley Winkler whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Patty Cioc whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Roby Shepherd whispers: Type /ol help for a list of commands
Torley Linden: Whoa chat spam!
Elle Pollack: o.O
aliceinwire Bleac: ops
Kippie Friedkin: wowzers
Tao Takashi: BUY ALL MY STUFF!
aliceinwire Bleac: sorry
Stephen Zenith: lol
aliceinwire Bleac: :(
Stephen Zenith: loverly spam....
Pastrami Linden: Stephen Zenith: any thoughts about altering what happens at the edge of the draw distance? right now, it looks a little abrupt compared ot the regular viewer
Pastrami Linden: hmm
Pastrami Linden: thoughts guys?
Tao Takashi: so and when do we get big waves now? :)
BigPapi Linden: Tao: no big waves.
Stephen Zenith: heh heh, Tao and his waves :)
Chaos Markstein: What is being done about distance terrain?
Tao Takashi: *sniff*
Torley Linden: Pastrami, that checkerboarding problem should be fixed, for example.
Tao Takashi: just dreaming of a nice beach... ;-)
Elle Pollack: Well the usual fix is to hide the edge with fog
Torley Linden: WindLight: Object culling clips too near and looks very harsh - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1560
aliceinwire Bleac: we have send me a online tester to test and when i have put it out that's what is ahppen O_o
Chaos Markstein: are we going to see infinite rolling terrain on mainland
Zen Linden: it's not hidden by GL fog any more
BigPapi Linden: But you can hide it yourself by making the haze stronger in WL
Brad Linden: you can turn up the distance multiplier slider to get similar effects
BigPapi Linden: what brad said. ;)
Torley Linden: WindLight: Terrain near draw distance is sometimes "checkerboarded" and not rendered - http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3226
Chaos Markstein: what about far distance terrain
Torley Linden: It does seem like distant objects do get culled nearer than the main viewer.
Torley Linden: I know it bugged me in the mid-2007 initial WindLight -- Pastrami, let's have a closer look at this?
Pastrami Linden: culling distance?
Torley Linden: There's several Issue Tracker issues on this which basically mention the same sorta thing.
Torley Linden: Yes, and specifically how some objects get culled. (Details in those issues.)
Pastrami Linden: well, the public still hasn;t gotten the mega fix for that
Torley Linden: I've heard a lot of our dear Residents report the "checkerboarded" terrain...
Pastrami Linden: which runiati committed
Torley Linden: oh, this is different from that occlusion bug.
Pastrami Linden: ahh I see
Torley Linden: ^_^
Pastrami Linden: hmm
Pastrami Linden: let me find the internal jira
Torley Linden: Pastrami: https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/DEV-6282 and https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/DEV-847
Torley Linden: (Sorry folks, those links work for Lindens only!)
Tao Takashi: if anybody wants a hack...
Tiny Hickman: Boo
aliceinwire Bleac: :)
Drew Dzieciol: lol
Tao Takashi: ... don't ask me ;-)
Torley Linden: Basically the same thing as the two public links I pasted previously tho.
aliceinwire Bleac: don't be sorry torley :)
Stephen Zenith: facists :p
Torley Linden: I personally hope someday we'll have one big unified Issue Tracker... until that time tho... ;)
aliceinwire Bleac: :D
Tao Takashi: and svn, and mailing list...
Pastrami Linden: Torley you sure 847 isn't the same as the other one - lemme fnid it
Torley Linden: Pastrami, if you mean DEV-4857, then no, not the same.
Tao Takashi: speaking of open source, might hop over the the open source OH
Tao Takashi: cya later, thanks for the answers! and thanks for windlight! think again about the big waves! :)
Pastrami Linden: alright let me re-prioritize
Torley Linden: Thanks for coming Tao!
Chaos Markstein: hey whats being done about this bug...........
Stephen Zenith: oh, is that now?
Tao Takashi: I hope so, Stephen :)
Chaos Markstein: that is the sea at about 700m up
Tiny Hickman: At height, the world 'cube' is visible
Torley Linden: Ah, instead of being drawn out to the horizon, you mean?
Torley Linden: What's the expected way you think it should work? :)
Chaos Markstein: make an infinite plain on the "world cube"
Chaos Markstein: and draw a lower detail water in the far distance
Stephen Zenith: actually, i see it with atmospheric shaders off, around dusk & dawn
Stephen Zenith: you can see the actual adges of the cube
Torley Linden: Graphics gurus, what do you think about that?
Stephen Zenith: *edges
Pastrami Linden: I know it's an issue Runitai has known about for a while
Chaos Markstein: are you sure thats the edge of the cube, and not the edge of the water plane
Pastrami Linden: I think it requires some major re-writes of water
Chaos Markstein: why does it "bend"
Pastrami Linden: bothers me too, but it'll take a while to get to :\
Torley Linden: Good to know, thanks Pastrami.
Pastrami Linden: last question=
BigPapi Linden: Water curving up is a decision we made on purpose
Chaos Markstein: that really mystifies me as to why it should bend, and not just be straight edged
Elle Pollack: I've only seen it bend when I've gone off the edge of the world
Pastrami Linden: JetZep Zabelin: drawdistance in the peripheral seems greater than in the center of screen, is that by design or can we fix that? [13:57] JetZep Zabelin: with terrain
Chaos Markstein: ah ok, how come does it not use up more polygons
BigPapi Linden: Simply put it is a tradeoff between having what looks like water extending off to infinity and curvature at high angles.
Pastrami Linden: BigPapi, thoughts?
Stephen Zenith: isn't that what the sky detail slider is for?
BigPapi Linden: Overally, it simply looks better the way it is.
Chaos Markstein: why don't you have a water image on the skycube?
Chaos Markstein: so it really does extend off into the distance
Torley Linden: I like that word, "overally". ;)
JetZep Zabelin: lol
BigPapi Linden: The "look" of infinite water was more important than the effect of the curvature.
BigPapi Linden: Chaos. Because water on the skydome wouldn't work.
BigPapi Linden: It wouldn't look correct or seamless.
Chaos Markstein: have you played Unreal Tournament 2003 demo
BigPapi Linden: This was the best alternative we had. so we chose it.
Chaos Markstein: on the first level they use a great system
Chaos Markstein: they have a smallish near terrain, and for the far terrain they blur the edges and have a really low detail distance
BigPapi Linden: That wouldn't work for us.
BigPapi Linden: We don't have a small self contained level.
BigPapi Linden: The world extends far greater than what computers are currently able to render.
Chaos Markstein: how big is the world exactly?
Chaos Markstein: cant be that big
BigPapi Linden: Big enough.
Stephen Zenith: isn;t the rl horizon 27 miles away? :)
BigPapi Linden: Any other questions before we head out for the day?
Elle Pollack: If you put the whole mainland together it would be bigger in area than the city of Boston
Pastrami Linden: if not, thanks all!
Chaos Markstein: jeez thats uber big
Drew Dzieciol: Windlight runs a lot better for me than the regular client, I understand that the avatar impostering may contribute to this but do you think the majority of the performance boost is due to the graphics engine coding being refactored?
BigPapi Linden: MUCH, MUCH bigger than boston
Tiny Hickman: Thank you Lindens
Torley Linden: Thanx a lot to each and all of you for attending our Office Hours!
Elle Pollack: And that doesn't include private estates
Stephen Zenith: and the bars are open later than in boston...
Zen Linden: thanks
BigPapi Linden: Drew: yes
Pastrami Linden: Drew, it's probably a combination
Elle Pollack: BigPapi, yeah the boston figure is about a year old
Chaos Markstein: thanx
Drew Dzieciol: ty
Pastrami Linden: later all!
Vanessa Eckersley: Thanks to all :)
BigPapi Linden: Thanks for coming!
Brad Linden: thanks for coming!
Jeremy Linden: A great illustration of how big the world is: 
Stephen Zenith: thanks guys
Torley Linden: Bye for now! Take care everyone. :)
Jeremy Linden: Sorry I was a bit late with that.
Stephen Zenith: nice to finally make one of these :)
Brad Linden parrots bigpapi
Torley Linden: jeremy: Oh neat, I like the original Powers of 10 movie.
JetZep Zabelin: Bye =)
Brad Linden: later all!
BigPapi Linden: Torley, that powers of ten
BigPapi Linden: makes me want to cry
Torley Linden: *weeps with joy*
BigPapi Linden: No
BigPapi Linden: Tears of sorrow
JetZep Zabelin: BigPapi, you're too big
BigPapi Linden: You do realize that each of the links in her necklace (that you can barely see).
BigPapi Linden: Is a torus?!?
Chaos Markstein: lol
Torley Linden: :O
Candy Kew: hehe
BigPapi Linden: And people wonder why our framerates are so low in many scenes.
Jeremy Linden: BigPapi, there are far worse offenses than that in the world.
Torley Linden: BigPapi, time to educate her!
Candy Kew: small prim
Torley Linden: ;)
Chaos Markstein: like felonhall
Torley Linden: She came to one of our previous Office Hours, too.
Torley Linden: Ahhhh memoriessss.
Chaos Markstein: 25 prims for a barstool
Elle Pollack: Don't make me get out my 200+ prim limited edition necklace
Chaos Markstein: 48 prims for a beertap
Elle Pollack: Purdy, but I can't wear it often
BigPapi Linden: haha. *cries*
Tiny Hickman: Surely, a torus that is only1cmx1cmx1cm, and then path cut doesn't get rendered until you are quite close because of LOD?
Jeremy Linden: I don't like to think about how many torii are in my hair.