Open Source Meeting/2009-07-16

* [13:58] Rob Linden: hi folks!
* [13:58] Techwolf Lupindo: Hi rob
* [13:59] Morgaine Dinova: Hi Rob
* [13:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Rob, are we allowed to make suggestions for features for intrepid developers?
* [13:59] Techwolf Lupindo: points to Stickman "I brought my pet dragon this time." :-)
* [13:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Did you remember to feed him before you came?
* [13:59] Stickman Ingmann: Feed me, Seymour!
* [13:59] Morgaine Dinova: I filed his teeth down
* [13:59] Opensource Obscure: o_o
* [14:00] Morgaine Dinova: And fed him mints to keep the flames down
* [14:00] Opensource Obscure: XD
* [14:00] Rob Linden: sure, you can suggest, though this is probably not the best venue for something out of the blue
* [14:00] Opensource Obscure: ciao everybody by the way
* [14:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: "What would you do for a klondike bar?"
* [14:00] Morgaine Dinova: Ciao OO
* [14:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: Q :D
* [14:00] Sasy Scarborough: hello all
* [14:00] Erinyse Planer: hey q
* [14:00] Techwolf Lupindo: *GIGGLES*:)~[14:00
* [14:00] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Q
* [14:00] Q Linden: hi all
* [14:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: May I ask, are we allowed to bring up feature ideas for intrepid developers here?
* [14:01] Stickman Ingmann: I think I have a Klondike bar stuck in my teeth. We can put it to the test.
* [14:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: I just have one in mind, in particular.
* [14:02] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Merov
* [14:02] Rob Linden: Sebastean, fire away
* [14:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hi Merov :)
* [14:02] Rob Linden: while you're typing...
* [14:02] Rob Linden: I'm going to direct folks to this page: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Snowglobe_QA
* [14:02] Rob Linden: (since we don't have a prepared agenda)
* [14:02] Fred Rookstown: waits for the seats to load
* [14:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: All right, the idea is pretty simple: An option in the viewer to disable friend requests, possibly with an error message "This person has disabled friend requests" or maybe something customizeable.
* [14:03] Erinyse Planer: should we load that on the internal or extenal browser rob?
* [14:03] Rob Linden: Erinyse: doesn't mater
* [14:03] Opensource Obscure: seb.: I'd use that feature. nice idea.
* [14:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: My life would really, really, really be much easier if we had a feature like that. It gets difficult having to explain why I declined or ignored a friend request when people invariably offer.
* [14:04] Sasy Scarborough: what about invisible mode at the push of a button, rather than having to hide from everyone one at a time
* [14:04] Erinyse Planer: i would use that in certain circumstances as well
* [14:04] Rob Linden: Sebastean: I'd suggest filing something on jira.secondlife.com
* [14:04] Fred Rookstown: Sebastian: why explain? :P
* [14:04] Q Linden: so that's a straigtforward feature request, isn't it? file a jira, and offer a patch if you have the ability.
* [14:04] Erinyse Planer: Fred people get real upset if you dont
* [14:04] Rob Linden: okee doke
* [14:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: I don't have the ability Q :) I figured maybe the opensource people would be interested in trying their hand at it.
* [14:04] Opensource Obscure: that would help teaching SLetiquette to new (and old) users. seb: please notify on SLdev list when you create the request on pjira
* [14:05] Fred Rookstown: Sebastian: I'll bring it up with the Emerald devs
* [14:05] Morgaine Dinova: I think Seb was suggesting a separate section for "intrepid Snowglobe explorers" ... although I don't see the distinction from main viewer for that.
* [14:05] Fred Rookstown: I'll get a patch when they're done and post it to the JIRA
* [14:05] Sasy Scarborough: thats why calling cards are so handy, i always if not a real friend decline and offer to take their card instead
* [14:05] Q Linden: sebastean: that's great. The better you can get with detail and implications in the UI, the easieer for everyone
* [14:05] Rob Linden: so, here's what I'd like to do for the hour if you all don't mind. let's see if we can get through this list: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&pid=10100&resolution=-1&sorter/field=updated&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=customfield_10020&sorter/order=DESC
* [14:06] Rob Linden: or at least, all of the issues that don't yet have a "Last Triaged" date on them
* [14:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'd be happy to Q :D
* [14:06] Morgaine Dinova: [14:06
* [14:06] Rob Linden: first issue: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-115
* [14:06] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-115|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-115]]: 
* [14:06] Fred Rookstown: Morgaine: known problem with 1.26 causing memory leaks in link_message events
* [14:07] Rob Linden: has anyone else seen SNOW-115?
* [14:08] Fred Rookstown: Why are people wearing gigantic dragon avs in here :(
* [14:08] Rob Linden: I'm guessing the answer is "no"
* [14:08] Fred Rookstown: It's not like it isn't already laggy from all the agents
* [14:08] Stickman Ingmann: Can't say I have Rob. Been using Snowglobe as my main viewer basically.
* [14:08] Erinyse Planer: not that i am aware of no. but then... i have a very high bandwidth so i wouldnt notice it unless it was insane
* [14:09] Sasy Scarborough: thinks the big cute dragons are probably less laggy than my hair
* [14:09] Stickman Ingmann: I've got 20mb down, so it may not have been apparent to me if it happened.
* [14:09] Twisted Laws: I've not seen it rob
* [14:09] Techwolf Lupindo: I need to try to repro 115. I have a 20Meg connection to verfify that.
* [14:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Haha, Sasy:)
* [14:09] Rob Linden: well, I'm not sure how we'll ever get a repro on that type of thing. I bumped the "Last triaged" date, and have already commented, so we can move on
* [14:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Very nicely done hair, too.
* [14:09] Sasy Scarborough: :) thank you
* [14:09] Morgaine Dinova: That would be a useful feature request, "Send all script errors to script creator" (impossible to turn off). Might improve some scripting ;-)
* [14:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: Actually
* [14:10] Rob Linden: SNOW-89
* [14:10] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-89: 
* [#SNOW-89] 1.1.0 (2462): HUD attachments sometimes inoperative
* [14:10] Sebastean Steamweaver: I created that JIRA for soft.
* [14:10] Rob Linden: that's next on the list
* [14:10] Opensource Obscure: it appears to be a duplicate of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-8215 , that I get on all sorts of viewer. Thickbrick Sleaford made a patch for that - I didn't try to apply it yet - if you're used to compile the viewer please try it
* [14:10] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#VWR-8215|JIRA-helper: [#VWR-8215]]: 
* [14:10] Erinyse Planer: not just a snowglobe issue
* [14:10] Opensource Obscure: teleport , edit and many other actions re-enable usual/correct behaviour -
* [14:11] Rob Linden: yeah, since it's not exclusive to Snowglobe, and since we don't have a patch (thus not being more likely to be picked up by Snowglobe devs than anyone else), I think we should mark it as a duplicate of VWR-8215
* [14:11] Opensource Obscure: Monalisa Robbiani's comment on SNOW-89 appears to be unrelated though
* [14:11] Rob Linden: VWR-8215
* [14:12] Opensource Obscure: monalisa appears to be the only windows user that gets this
* [14:12] Opensource Obscure: is this a linux only issue?
* [14:12] Opensource Obscure: Ellla, did you get this? which OS?
* [14:13] Rob Linden: next up: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-119
* [14:13] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-119|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-119]]: 
* [14:13] Stickman Ingmann: I used to have some problems with a follow-cam not working on a Seawolf boat a while back. But that was related to border crossings.
* [14:14] Ellla McMahon: no the only time I see this is when the connection hasn'rt established properly .. ie a lag issue not a code issue for me
* [14:14] Rob Linden: Looks pretty likely to be Snowlgobe specific, based on the area of code
* [14:14] Rob Linden: (LLTextureFetchWorker*)
* [14:15] Merov Linden: nods
* [14:15] Lubo Loon: hello
* [14:15] Lubo Loon: hi Techwolf
* [14:16] Rob Linden: I've marked this as something to look at for Snowglobe 1.1.....we can take it off the list later if we decide we've got too much
* [14:17] Rob Linden: next up: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-121
* [14:17] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-121|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-121]]: 
* [14:17] Lubo Loon: I have a question. Why is it possible that a region fills up my whole system ram and let my system nearly crash?
* [14:18] Rob Linden: Lubo: not sure...is this related to the bug list we're discussing?
* [14:18] Morgaine Dinova: Lubo: because the viewer does not have resource-based rendering, it just accepts everything regardless.
* [14:18] Rob Linden: on SNOW-121....
* [14:19] Rob Linden: current released version is 10.5, right?
* [14:19] Lubo Loon: oh, there is a bug list? ist some months ago where was no list ^^
* [14:19] Rob Linden: we're stepping through this list: http://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&&pid=10100&resolution=-1&sorter/field=updated&sorter/order=DESC&sorter/field=customfield_10020&sorter/order=DESC
* [14:20] Stickman Ingmann: Hi Darv!
* [14:20] Darv Linden: waves
* [14:20] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Darv!
* [14:20] Erinyse Planer: *nods to darv*
* [14:20] Rob Linden: ah ok...so someone is pointing out that we've got a function there that won't work in Mac OS X Snow Leopard (coming Sep 2009)
* [14:21] Battery Street: Irregulars whispers: Thanks for your interest in the Battery Street Irregulars. We'll be contacting you soon!
* [14:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hey Darv :)
* [14:21] Morgaine Dinova: Talking about resource-based rendering in general, Caps are theoretically going to allow us to select what we want to receive. However, I don't see any work (nor even mention) on viewer-controlled reduction of objects on a sim's interest list. That needs addressing at some point.
* [14:22] Rob Linden: any Mac developers here at all?
* [14:22] Erinyse Planer: well thats coming up pretty soon. is there a way to get it to comply before then or is it one of thsoe "we ahve to wait till its out?"
* [14:22] Merov Linden: hey Aimee!
* [14:22] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Aimee :-)
* [14:22] Aimee Trescothick: and on cue a Mac dev appeared lol
* [14:22] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:23] Sasy Scarborough: lol hi Aimee
* [14:23] Morgaine Dinova: Hehe
* [14:23] Rob Linden: you wouldn't have a Snow Leopard preview by any chance would you?
* [14:23] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:23] Rob Linden: we're discussing http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-121
* [14:23] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-121|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-121]]: 
* [14:23] Aimee Trescothick: I will do tomorrow, new Mac Pro arriving :)
* [14:23] Merov Linden: better have SnowGlobe work under SnowLeopard
* [14:23] Aimee Trescothick: LOL yes
* [14:24] Merov Linden: need to be weather compatble...
* [14:24] Aimee Trescothick: SnowGloLeopard
* [14:24] Rob Linden: we actually don't need Snow Leopard to deal with this one, but it's a relate topic
* [14:24] Erinyse Planer: groans
* [14:24] Rob Linden: Aimee: nice try ;-)
* [14:24] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [14:24] Morgaine Dinova: Just turn up the RDF to 11, it'll work all by itself :P
* [14:25] Rob Linden: actually, that's going to be an issue for the mainline viewer, too, isn't it?
* [14:25] Aimee Trescothick: hmm, well, it should still work on Snow Leopard if I'm reading that right
* [14:25] Rob Linden: should we move SNOW-121 over to VWR?
* [14:25] Merov Linden: Rob: very certainly...
* [14:25] Aimee Trescothick: that's just talking about building it with the 10.6 framework
* [14:26] Aimee Trescothick: it's still built with the 10.4 framework at the moment as far as I'm aware
* [14:26] Merov Linden: and 10.5
* [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, it builds fine with the 10.5 framework
* [14:27] Rob Linden: ok...well, we'll move it over to VWR, since it's not Snowglobe specific. Soliciting a patch as well
* [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, I'll probably start poking around there in a week or two
* [14:27] Rob Linden: we'll take them at their word that the API is no longer supported in 10.6 until we hear definitiely otherwise
* [14:28] Rob Linden: next up: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-120
* [14:28] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-120|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-120]]: 
* [14:28] Rob Linden: looks like it might be similar
* [14:28] Merov Linden: yup
* [14:28] Rob Linden: does that count as "Patch attached"?
* [14:29] Q Linden: It's probably not an extension anymore
* [14:29] Q Linden: I'm not sure that's the right patch
* [14:29] Rob Linden: k...we'll avoid declaring it a patch then
* [14:29] Rob Linden: it's another general VWR issue, thoguh, right?
* [14:29] Merov Linden: thinks so
* [14:30] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, it will apply building the main viewer too presumably
* [14:30] Lubo Loon: Rob, short question - when will the windows client switch to openal?
* [14:31] Rob Linden: so, let's move it over to VWR, and maybe put in a question about whether this is the right fix
* [14:33] Rob Linden: skipping over the test sprint issue for now
* [14:33] Rob Linden: on to: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-68
* [14:33] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-68|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-68]]: 
* [14:33] Rob Linden: oh, fix pending!
* [14:33] Rob Linden: w00t
* [14:33] Aimee Trescothick: :)
* [14:34] Rob Linden: actually, since people can download a build today with this, let's just mark this as "fixed"
* [14:34] Stickman Ingmann: Impressive, Aimee. :D
* [14:34] Erinyse Planer: is there a new windows build?
* [14:34] Aimee Trescothick: heh
* [14:34] Aimee Trescothick: keeps quiet that it was her that caused the bug in the first place *whistles*
* [14:34] Sasy Scarborough: lmao
* [14:34] Erinyse Planer: giggles
* [14:35] Erinyse Planer: we love you anyways aimee
* [14:35] Rob Linden: Aimee: that's what measurable developer productivity is all about
* [14:35] Stickman Ingmann: Perfect way to get famous. Politians do it all the time, I'm sure.
* [14:35] Aimee Trescothick: lol
* [14:35] Rob Linden: if you don't create bugs, then you have nothing to fix
* [14:35] Aimee Trescothick: :D
* [14:35] Morgaine Dinova: No, politicians just break it without fixing it.
* [14:35] Erinyse Planer: eyes rob and wishes she was her clawed neko right now
* [14:36] Darv Linden: holds Erinyse back by her imaginary tail >.>
* [14:36] Erinyse Planer: theres plenty of bugs without needing anymore tyvm rob
* [14:36] Rob Linden: next up: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-118
* [14:36] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-118|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-118]]: 
* [14:36] Rob Linden: which...I'm in the process of assinging to myself and updating
* [14:37] Rob Linden: next up: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-59
* [14:37] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-59|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-59]]: 
* [14:37] Erinyse Planer: im not convinced this is sg only
* [14:37] Lubo Loon: the driver listed there is realy old
* [14:38] Rob Linden: it seems like the category of problem that could be Snowglobe only
* [14:38] Merov Linden: the cache in SN is deeply rewritten
* [14:38] Rob Linden: could be a driver problem as well
* [14:38] Stickman Ingmann: Snowglobe DOES have texture loading issues.
* [14:38] Morgaine Dinova: suggests the next Snowglobe project after http-textures be "Cache Mk II".
* [14:38] Stickman Ingmann: That 1.23.4 doesn't.
* [14:38] Merov Linden: likely to be SN specific IMO
* [14:38] Rob Linden: but that looks like missing textures, whcih is kind of a signature of http-texture problems
* [14:39] Merov Linden: note: there's a retry for missed textures BTW in code
* [14:39] Rob Linden: well, we'll put it on the Snowglobe 1.1 list
* [14:39] Merov Linden: but it gives up for good after 4 tries IIRC
* [14:39] Merov Linden: need a force reload (clear cache) that users could trigger?
* [14:39] Rob Linden: yeah, we need some way of saying "try again in an hour" or something
* [14:40] Latif Khalifa: but snowglobe uses http-texture only for map, right?
* [14:40] Morgaine Dinova: Use a TCP-style exponential backoff
* [14:40] Rob Linden: Latif: the map is the heaviest user of the new code, but...
* [14:40] Merov Linden: Latif: we use the http fetch only for map
* [14:40] Merov Linden: but the cache has been rewritten for *all* textures
* [14:41] Merov Linden: LLTextureFetchWorker is not just for http fetched textures
* [14:41] Erinyse Planer: hmms and wonders why she doenst see nearly so many of these graphics issues then
* [14:41] Rob Linden: Erinyse: it might be a function of connectivity, it might be luck
* [14:42] Rob Linden: let's move on...looks like we've got it categorized correctly now
* [14:42] Rob Linden: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-104
* [14:42] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-104|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-104]]: 
* [14:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Hmmm...add debug setting to adjust the retries settings. Like retry after one minute or one hour and how may to retry before giving up.
* [14:43] Erinyse Planer: thinks if we add too many more debug settings we may need to do it in volumes. Debug setting volume I debug settings volume II >.>
* [14:43] Rob Linden: so, Aleric should know as well as anyone the relationship of this one to SNOW-103
* [14:43] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-103: 
* [#SNOW-103] 'bytes_read ==: sizeof(Entry)' fails
* [14:43] Rob Linden: so, I'm going to trust his judgement
* [14:43] Rob Linden: we'll put it on the 1.1 list, and then check back after we've checked something in for SNOW-103 and it's been out there a while
* [14:43] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: connectivity I think. On Opensim the problem of retry aborts is much more noticeable. Rarely notice it on SL because path is much better I think.
* [14:44] Rob Linden: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-117
* [14:44] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-117|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-117]]: 
* [14:45] Rob Linden: hmm....this one is a tossup
* [14:45] Merov Linden: wow! is that 100% repro?
* [14:45] Erinyse Planer: now this i can duplicate, and it does it differantly then some of the related issues in other 1.23 viewers
* [14:46] Latif Khalifa: its a feature! nyx calls it "emperor's new clothes patch for 1.23" :P
* [14:46] Erinyse Planer: hahahaha
* [14:46] Rob Linden: Snowglobe 1.0 doesn't have all of the 1.23 fixes in it, but the latest nightly does
* [14:47] Rob Linden: is this one of the fixes that was really late in the 1.23 cycle?
* [14:47] Merov Linden: nods
* [14:47] Rob Linden: I think this is one we should ask for more info on.....
* [14:47] Merov Linden: wait: I do not know is the last 1.23 cycle fixed this
* [14:47] Merov Linden: need to check really
* [14:48] Latif Khalifa: no this is still happening in 1.23
* [14:48] Erinyse Planer: merov im not sure if it was fixed or not according to LL but i can still get it
* [14:48] Rob Linden: is there already a VWR issue for this one?
* [14:48] Rob Linden: (seems likely there would be)
* [14:48] Latif Khalifa: there dozen or so lol
* [14:48] Merov Linden: well, if it still happens in 1.23, that's a VWR issue
* [14:48] Latif Khalifa: don't know which one is main
* [14:48] Erinyse Planer: there is. is it worth noting though, that for me at least this bug renders differantly in snowglobe then 1.23?
* [14:49] Phantom Ninetails: I recall hearing the issue about some parts of avatar mesh being invisible is due to an old broken layer that didn't work, that was changed to be an alpha layer in 1.23
* [14:49] Phantom Ninetails: So if you clear cache, the mesh won't have those transparent parts anymore
* [14:49] Aimee Trescothick: it's probably the same old bug that used to cause black patches on the avatar at times
* [14:50] Aimee Trescothick: just now with alpha a zero is transparent, not just black
* [14:50] Phantom Ninetails: *cough*
* [14:50] Aimee Trescothick: though that's a guess
* [14:50] Merov Linden: likes that guess... a classic CG bug...
* [14:51] Q Linden: I think this is related to the issue that if you bake an avatar on 1.22, it fails on 1.23 until you rebake it on 1.23.
* [14:51] Latif Khalifa: before 1.23 baked texture alpha was not used, and it never had been set
* [14:51] Stickman Ingmann: The "old broken layer" was the bumpmap layer. Which was old and broken, yes.
* [14:51] Phantom Ninetails: *cough* did my message even get through? Clearing cache fixes it, the textures are downloaded properly and appear properly on 1.23 after a cache clearing.
* [14:51] Ellla McMahon: Nyx says there are 3/4 'invisible ' bugs in 1.23. For one it related to a the 4th channel
* [14:52] Phantom Ninetails: I give up.
* [14:52] Stickman Ingmann: Poor Phantom.
* [14:52] Rob Linden: okee doke, so we'll mark this one as a duplicate when we find the issue number to link it to, and yes Phantom, we hear you
* [14:52] Ellla McMahon: "[2009/07/15 12:34
* [14:52] Erinyse Planer: feasts on phantom then
* [14:52] Latif Khalifa: yeah Nyx is the guy fighting with partial avatar treanparency
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: well, with a name lie Phantom ... :D
* [14:52] Ellla McMahon: from yesterdays OH
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: *like
* [14:52] Morgaine Dinova: Clearing cache isn't a "fix", it's a bypass. Once we have a cache system that allows us to run large caches, you're not going to want to clear them.
* [14:52] Rob Linden: Aimee: nice
* [14:52] Aimee Trescothick: heh
* [14:53] Rob Linden: so, yes, there's a workaround we should suggest, and link it to the duplicate and close it off
* [14:53] Ellla McMahon: [2009/07/15 12:34
* [14:53] Rob Linden: thanks Ellla
* [14:53] Rob Linden: onward!
* [14:53] Ellla McMahon: sorry .. [2009/07/15 12:34
* [14:53] Morgaine Dinova: Rob: a workaround that will not be possible in the future is not a fix.
* [14:54] Rob Linden: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-114
* [14:54] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-114|JIRA-helper: [#SNOW-114]]: 
* [14:54] Erinyse Planer: ive had this too. it jsut cuts out. no long NOTHING in the logs to shwo what caused it
* [14:55] Merov Linden: better than a long painful crash...
* [14:55] Rob Linden: Morgaine: acknowledged....goal of this meeting is just to make sure that we get issues in the right place, and I think we've got a good set of stuff to do there
* [14:55] Erinyse Planer: its like a remote shtdown
* [14:55] Latif Khalifa: well baked cache is one of the issues there... another one is failure to read back GL memory buffer before bakes are uploaded... its why if you run SL on the second monitor and rebake you're most likely be partially/fully transparent
* [14:55] Morgaine Dinova: nods
* [14:55] Sasy Scarborough: its weird though boom gone
* [14:55] Darv Linden: As in, no crash reporter and such?
* [14:55] Sasy Scarborough: right
* [14:55] Erinyse Planer: no reporter
* [14:55] Erinyse Planer: and restarting doesnt trigger reporter either
* [14:55] Rob Linden: by the way, Nyx tells me SNOW-117 == VWR-12906
* [14:55] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-12906: 
* [#VWR-12906] Certain actions: such as changing outfits makes entire body, arms, hands of avatar disappear, makes face rezzing screwy
* [14:55] Merov Linden: Latif: this is very interesting this 2nd monitor issue
* [14:56] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, the second monitor one is a pain :(
* [14:56] Stickman Ingmann: Running SL on a second monitor is not supported, according to Nyx.
* [14:56] Erinyse Planer: it seriously just is like the viewer shuts itself down
* [14:56] Merov Linden: reading back GL textures is something that has been avoided
* [14:56] Stickman Ingmann: I think that was Nyx that said it.
* [14:56] Latif Khalifa: Merov, that's how uploading bakes works atm, iirc
* [14:56] Merov Linden: created all sorts of new bugs (e.g. saving screenshots)
* [14:57] Merov Linden: you're right for baked textures
* [14:57] Q Linden: yeah...basically, driver vendors rarely get readback correct on a second monitor. It just doesn't work right.
* [14:57] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, it always used to be if you rebaked on the second monitor you just went completely black
* [14:57] Aimee Trescothick: ... like so
* [14:57] Rob Linden: remembers that
* [14:57] Latif Khalifa: which is why texture baking would be better off done outside GL ;)
* [14:58] Merov Linden: now you go transparent (alpha = 0)
* [14:58] Rob Linden: progress!
* [14:58] Sasy Scarborough: that was an awful bug my friend wwent black for days and then ended up with his jeans on his face
* [14:58] Erinyse Planer: anyways.
* [14:58] Latif Khalifa: for upload purposes, but that's a major undertaking ;)
* [14:58] Erinyse Planer: what are we gonan do with 114?
* [14:58] Aimee Trescothick: made the problem disappear, literally
* [14:58] Rob Linden: Erinyse: I'm not sure....it's not getting a lot of attention here
* [14:58] Rob Linden: not a lot of info in 114 either
* [14:59] Erinyse Planer: theres very hard to give any info.
* [14:59] Erinyse Planer: it happens to me like twice a day
* [14:59] Aimee Trescothick: I should be black or transparent now
* [14:59] Merov Linden: which OS?
* [14:59] Erinyse Planer: and theres nothing logged in any of the logs to explain it
* [14:59] Erinyse Planer: win xp
* [14:59] Latif Khalifa: if all people in a scene crash at the same time, its most probably an animation triggering viewer crash
* [14:59] Latif Khalifa: there are animations criculated around that do that
* [15:00] Erinyse Planer: one second you have a viwer the next you dont. wierd thing is.. when yous tart it up next, it thinks it shut down correctly
* [15:00] Stickman Ingmann: Aimee, 1.23.4, you look fine.
* [15:00] Erinyse Planer: *start
* [15:00] Phantom Ninetails: This bug is also related to baking, although in some ways it's worse: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3282
* [15:00] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#VWR-3282|JIRA-helper: [#VWR-3282]]: 
* [15:00] Morgaine Dinova: It thinks it shut down correctly? That's not consistent with an instant boom.
* [15:01] Rob Linden: well, we're about out of time here
* [15:01] Aimee Trescothick: interesting, I'm running a 1.22 client, just rebaked on the second monitor, I'm completely black except my prims here, guess you didn't load the new bake yet
* [15:01] Erinyse Planer: i know morgain
* [15:01] Rob Linden: we should wrap up on 114 and call it good
* [15:01] Erinyse Planer: *pouts* cause the next one was one that annoys her *giggles*
* [15:01] Rob Linden: Erinyse: any log info or anything you can provide will be helpful here
* [15:02] Melinda Latynina: i got her bake and she's black in 1.23.4
* [15:02] Erinyse Planer: rob ill attach the viewer log next time, but honestly theres nothing out of the ordinary
* [15:02] Stickman Ingmann: I'm seeing black now, too.
* [15:02] Sasy Scarborough: ooo me too
* [15:02] Merov Linden: can see "Black Aimee" in Snowglobe
* [15:02] Erinyse Planer: im seeing balck as well
* [15:02] Lubo Loon: i also see her in black clothes now
* [15:02] Sasy Scarborough: is in snowglobe too
* [15:02] Stickman Ingmann: Black != transparent, though. :<
* [15:02] Erinyse Planer: black with pink attachments
* [15:03] Merov Linden: because her 1.22 didn't bake alpha
* [15:03] Stickman Ingmann: Ah, pardon. My details are missing.
* [15:03] Morgaine Dinova: Yep, Aimee 100% black here too, 1.0.2
* [15:04] Rob Linden: latest Snowglobe: Aimee is all black
* [15:05] Techwolf Lupindo: I see black Aimee. 1.23.4 here
* [15:05] Rob Linden: so, need more info on SNOW-114 before we can do anything.
* [15:06] Rob Linden: and I think we should call it good
* [15:06] Merov Linden: doesn't know where to start with SNOW-114
* [15:06] Rob Linden: thanks everyone for coming!
* [15:06] Morgaine Dinova: Thanks Rob
* [15:06] Sasy Scarborough: thank you all :)
* [15:06] Stickman Ingmann: Thanks Rob!
* [15:06] Erinyse Planer: thanks rob
* [15:06] Sasy Scarborough: bye everyone :)
* [15:06] Ellla McMahon: Thank you Rob :)
* [15:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: Bye :)
* [15:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: Take care all!
* [15:06] Rob Linden: bye everyone!
* [15:07] Erinyse Planer: btw can anyone here teach me how to make a patch to create a popup?
* [15:07] Melinda Latynina: thx all!
* [15:07] Rob Linden: isn't sure how he ended up in building mode
* [15:07] Darv Linden: waves!
* [15:07] Darv Linden: Hit B instead of H?