User Experience Interest Group/Transcripts/2008-12-18

== Summary ==
Feel free to sort, add missing subjects, complete details, remove Geneko's shameless self-promotion or otherwise edit and improve this section.
Charlette, Aimie and StarSong discuss the possibility to move avatar scanners to client while Geneko spams the chat transcript with a scanner HUD and shameless self-promotion (which you're more than welcome to edit out). Also discussed is protocol-level Animation Override support. 
* Show Avatar Rendering Cost in Proposed "Attachment tab"?
* Compiling SL - was a mess, is it saner with CMAKE? Can skip Quicktime (on Windows/Mac) and use GStreamer instead?
* Real Life is overrated
* StarSong's Menu Reorganization ("Bucketing")
** organized in activities
* Mature and PG regions doesn't make sense
** Teens are asking to merge grids, but:
** Main grid is all adults, "Parental Guidance" makes no sense
** PG and Mature grids do not cluster, rather they are interleaved throught mainland. Also, supply is arbitrarily different leading to price difference
** viewer source has a "more mature than mature" category above "mature". But what we really need might be an "immature" category.
* Built-in AO has to be on server side and client (i.e. protocol level) since the server needs to keep track of what animations are overriden or playing, and the client have to play the overridden animation on event (might need to pre-load the animation).
* Since everyone goes around with a radar, putting it into client-side probably could ease server load (O(n^2)).
** Put it into Nearby Speakers since it's not of much use now.
** OpenMV viewer's scanner has too many buttons.
** It would be nice if this is made into an client-side extension but we don't have the mechanism in-place, so have to use machine code for now.
** You have the whole scenegraph available! Render a mini-map with everyone being chibis!
* Protecting in-world creation with patents... copyright would be better actually.
* [16:13] 	Morgaine Dinova: 	 We're happy for Geneko to take everything coz he's cute ;-) 
* Status of other viewer forks, OMV and Meerkat (also OpenAL in Imprudence)
* Imprudence: Mac testers needed, or do Linux+Windows only release?
* 
* Inventory
** Having folders opening is a pain
** File manager styles: Finder-like
* Mouseovers are bad.
* Do not repeatedly click the button.
== Transcript ==
[14:49]	StarSong Bright: 	heya geneko
[14:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hiyas.
[14:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I've pre-occupied this seat even when I don't contribute to the meeting at all, nyahaha.
[14:49]	StarSong Bright: 	for a change i didnt forget heheh
[14:50]	StarSong Bright: 	hehhe
[14:50]	StarSong Bright: 	thats the only comfortable one in here lol
[14:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not really. It gives a lot of packets.
[14:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'd rather nobody use it.
[14:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Okay... I was wrong.
[14:50]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It was Squirrel all along.
[14:51]	StarSong Bright: 	??
[14:51]	Geneko Nemeth: 	If you turn on "show updates" when Squirrel sits here...
[14:51]	Geneko Nemeth: 	you can see updates emerging from her body like fumes.
[14:51]	StarSong Bright: 	lol
[14:52]	StarSong Bright peeks at own rendering cost, winces 	StarSong Bright peeks at own rendering cost, winces
[14:52]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'd also rather have Periapse Linden remode the always-sending-full-updates prim grass from her land.
[14:53]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Four thousand. Not the largest I've seen...
[14:53]	StarSong Bright: 	this time of year is horible, half of that is my fur collar lol
[14:53]	StarSong Bright: 	i usualy try to hover around 2k
[14:53]	Maloo Eliot上线了。 	Maloo Eliot上线了。
[14:53]	StarSong Bright: 	smiles, but hey, beauty costs, heheh
[14:53]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Except it costs other people...
[14:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But apparantly, cuteness doesn't cost much.
[14:54]	StarSong Bright: 	yup nearly 2k for the fur
[14:54]	StarSong Bright: 	heh but the shirt is indecnet without it
[14:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hehe...
[14:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	ARC is (intentionally) misleading anyway.
[14:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I could whip up a jacket in 10 minutes if you like to wear it. XD
[14:55]	StarSong Bright: 	i wish they would put it in the appearance mode
[14:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nah, that doesn't work:
[14:55]	StarSong Bright: 	it could be part of the attachment tab i have in mind
[14:55]	StarSong Bright: 	no just for informational purposes
[14:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	ARC gauges attachments...
[14:56]	Geneko Nemeth: 	it doesn't gauge anything in Appearance Mode.
[14:56]	StarSong Bright: 	so a noob could look at themselves and see each of their attached items and what hteir costs are
[14:56]	StarSong Bright: 	so they could see their #$#$%#$% calico hair has a render cost of 5k
[14:56]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Well, that goes to the proposed "attachment" tab, maybe...
[14:56]	StarSong Bright: 	yes exactly
[14:57]	StarSong Bright: 	that tab would be very helpful i think
[14:57]	StarSong Bright: 	a place to interact with your attachments intelligenly
[14:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hmm, maybe I should start reading SL's source?
[14:57]	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Scanning for AVs within 48m every 1 seconds. 	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Scanning for AVs within 48m every 1 seconds.
[14:57]	StarSong Bright: 	i downloaded it, but i cant get all the third party crap to install in teh right places to compile
[14:57]	StarSong Bright: 	sighs
[14:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Ah, you can try again.
[14:57]	StarSong Bright: 	nods
[14:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	LL now puts everything on their servers,
[14:58]	StarSong Bright: 	yes well school is keeping me busy atm
[14:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	so you just run that script and it downloads all of them.
[14:58]	StarSong Bright: 	no you sitll have to get some parts elsewhere
[14:58]	StarSong Bright: 	they are not able to redistribute all the bits
[14:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	FMOD?
[14:58]	StarSong Bright: 	hmm there is a whole huge list
[14:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Or, if you're compiling on Windows, QuickTime...
[14:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't think there's more to it...
[14:58]	StarSong Bright: 	mac
[14:59]	StarSong Bright: 	no i found a huge list
[14:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh yeah. Well, that's too bad...
[14:59]	StarSong Bright: 	and of coure there are other versions of everythign available
[14:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nah, ignore that.
[14:59]	StarSong Bright: 	its a real pita
[14:59]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You'll need FMOD, QT and Cmake...
[14:59]	StarSong Bright: 	nods
[15:00]	StarSong Bright: 	well i will probably tear it all out an dtry again around xmas, when school is out
[15:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's easier now. But I don't have a Mac...
[15:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	and I had a hard time getting QuickTime to compile (and signing an non-discosure agreement) to get SL to compile.
[15:00]	StarSong Bright: 	well, its more the inexperience of the user than the platfrom, grins sheepishly
[15:00]	Rynnan Riggles下线了。 	Rynnan Riggles下线了。
[15:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Now I wish there's a way to replace QT with Gstreamer even on Windows.
[15:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Mrr, why today's hour have people I've never seen before?
[15:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And none of the regulars yet... did I miss something?
[15:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh here's one.
[15:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hi Chalette!
[15:02]	Charlette Proto: 	hi everyone
[15:02]	Patnad Babii: 	howdy :)
[15:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I was wondering why there's so many new people today...
[15:03]	StarSong Bright: 	well there was an email that jacek cant be here today
[15:03]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe they found Inprudence I bet
[15:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, but....
[15:03]	StarSong Bright: 	who did?
[15:03]	Charlette Proto: 	but where is McCabe?
[15:03]	StarSong Bright: 	doesnt look like hes online
[15:04]	Charlette Proto: 	I want to ask him if he has instructions for sound in Imprudence under windows
[15:04]	StarSong Bright: 	i am not sure how long i can stay today, i am really sick again, need to go to bed early if i can
[15:04]	Charlette Proto: 	suppose it will not be 3 hour session then
[15:04]	Charlette Proto: 	not implying that you make us go 3 hours star
[15:04]	StarSong Bright: 	not this week, i can barely type in complete sentences atm
[15:04]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I can't stand 3 hour sessions, I lose all interest after the first...
[15:05]	bulle47 Abeyante上线了。 	bulle47 Abeyante上线了。
[15:05]	StarSong Bright: 	hheeh i could go on for hours, grins heheh so i cant say i dont. :-D
[15:05]	Charlette Proto: 	me too I use this forum as a form of social life to get away from noobs at korea 1
[15:05]	StarSong Bright: 	smiles
[15:06]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Life? What is that? Is it tasty?
[15:06]	StarSong Bright: 	omg i used to go to korea when i ws new
[15:06]	StarSong Bright: 	dont worry geneko, its mostly overrated anwyays
[15:06]	Charlette Proto: 	korea has a great crowdand I get my user info (difficulty of learning) from there
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	no way Star we are like a mad family
[15:07]	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: (Sleep Mode) AV Scanner range reduced to 20 meters, scanning every 10 seconds. 	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: (Sleep Mode) AV Scanner range reduced to 20 meters, scanning every 10 seconds.
[15:07]	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: (Sleep Mode) All non-essential features have been temporarily disabled. 	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: (Sleep Mode) All non-essential features have been temporarily disabled.
[15:07]	StarSong Bright: 	grins, no i meant life is overrated, heheh not korea
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	bet most of us will be there for xmas and new year
[15:07]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe RL is hugely overated
[15:07]	StarSong Bright: 	and way too expensive!
[15:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So is SL...
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	especially by newbs
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So is SL. XD
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	it is about nothing though
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	there is really no point to Second Life
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	how do I go about looking at what I look like?
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	wish I could hear it, just have to trust it works
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It works.
[15:08]	Charlette Proto: 	I can't get sound working besides voice on my own
[15:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But the sound is that of a cascaudian male.
[15:09]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe thanks Geneko
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth is on official RC 1.22.4 	Geneko Nemeth is on official RC 1.22.4
[15:09]	Charlette Proto: 	not my voice a first day noob
[15:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	He's pretty polite sounding...
[15:09]	Charlette Proto: 	he came back after a few hours and was shocked he was a gesture already
[15:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	15 minutes of fame for everybody!
[15:10]	Charlette Proto: 	yep polite but full of get a life and become part of society rhetoric when he arrived
[15:10]	Charlette Proto: 	sure he didn't realise
[15:11]	Charlette Proto: 	got more great soundbites from him but since I've been using Imprudence it is just too much guessing how it works
[15:11]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's a stereotype for reasons, I myself isn't a big part of this thing called society;
[15:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	but because it's a virtual society doesn't make it less real.
[15:12]	StarSong Bright: 	agreed
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	good news for what you began star is that we can make buckets directly in viewer interface
[15:12]	StarSong Bright: 	oh?
[15:12]	Charlette Proto: 	I've changed a few things and it works fine, just editing the XML
[15:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	..."buckets"?
[15:12]	StarSong Bright: 	han gon i will give you the doc
[15:13]	StarSong Bright gave you sl buckets by StarSong. 	StarSong Bright gave you sl buckets by StarSong.
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	Star began to sort the UI command hirearchies
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	and some really make more sense
[15:13]	StarSong Bright: 	hi aimee, great wings!
[15:13]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hi, thanks :)
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	I think I have your early draft but if you updated it I'd love to try more
[15:13]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Aimee
[15:14]	StarSong Bright: 	i havent yet
[15:14]	Aimee Trescothick: 	hi :)
[15:14]	StarSong Bright: 	i was hoping for some feedback to see if i was on track
[15:14]	Charlette Proto: 	your name Aimee makes me think of Aimee Mullins
[15:14]	Charlette Proto: 	yes that would be nice but I've been all over the shop these past wto weeks
[15:14]	Aimee Trescothick: 	oh right, I don't know that one :)
[15:15]	Charlette Proto: 	Aimee Mullins is the model and runner with cevlar feet
[15:15]	Charlette Proto: 	kevler*
[15:15]	Aimee Trescothick: 	oh right :)
[15:15]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe kevlar* try again
[15:16]	StarSong Bright: 	brb
[15:16]	Adz Childs: 	Benjamin Linden is online
[15:16]	Charlette Proto: 	I used her pic in a cyborg presentation and people didn't get what I was trying to point out, but she runs faster than males
[15:16]	Charlette Proto: 	nice invite Benj over here
[15:17]	Adz Childs: 	Offer Teleport?
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	*-*`````aaHahahahahahahHaaa`````*-*
[15:17]	Adz Childs: 	hehe i did.
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	prolly shopping for new shiny boots
[15:17]	Charlette Proto: 	or airline ticket to rome
[15:17]	Adz Childs: 	he'l prolly mute me
[15:17]	Adz Childs: 	:(
[15:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So that's why he said they were "top-secret" projects...
[15:18]	Charlette Proto: 	great
[15:18]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet vehicle boots for all noobs
[15:18]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Well, he knows you're inviting him to Beaumont... so he probably won't mind. Much.
[15:18]	Charlette Proto: 	yes not like we are at some Mature location or anything with naughty in the name
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth points to the menu bar. 	Geneko Nemeth points to the menu bar.
[15:19]	Charlette Proto: 	wow it is mature, we could let loose
[15:19]	Geneko Nemeth: 	This does not mesh well with Teen Grid's grid merge request...
[15:20]	Charlette Proto: 	I have a question which Geneko (or Morgane not here) may have an answer to
[15:20]	Geneko Nemeth: 	What kind of question would I be able to answer, I don't know anything about SL Viewer >_>
[15:20]	Aimee Trescothick: 	I see from the viewer source they're adding a "Seriously Adult" category above Mature
[15:21]	Charlette Proto: 	I was thinking that running chat text detection of commands for LSL would improve server lag (similar to HUD events)
[15:21]	StarSong Bright: 	lol, i want an "immature" category hehheh (not the same as pg) heheh a sure sign of madcap ridiculousness
[15:21]	Aimee Trescothick: 	lol
[15:22]	Charlette Proto: 	PG is a bit much if a Second Life™ Mental Griefer is about
[15:22]	Charlette Proto: 	Mentor Greeter*
[15:22]	Adz Childs: 	first mistakes were making PG and M regions on the mainland 1) next to each other , 2) independently priced on the open market, and 3) released in different supply resulting in price differential
[15:22]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Autocomplete much?
[15:23]	Charlette Proto: 	Second Life™
[15:23]	Adz Childs: 	ongoing problem is not defining Mature, and using "PG" on a grid where kids aren't allowed
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick: 	My suspicion is that Adult regions will have to be isolated
[15:23]	Adz Childs: 	SL™
[15:23]	Adz Childs: 	you Imagination™ !
[15:23]	StarSong Bright: 	heheh well there goes my sim lmao
[15:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Exactly... if Teen and Main(Adult) are separate, PG/Mature ratings have no meaning.
[15:23]	Charlette Proto: 	the kids thing I understand in welcome areas since kids get on against regulations every day
[15:23]	Aimee Trescothick: 	but that's just speculation at it's purpose from me
[15:24]	Adz Childs: 	should i fire off another TP?
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nah
[15:24]	Adz Childs: 	:)
[15:24]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's probably the best if some regulars here do it...
[15:25]	Adz Childs: 	"PG" implies okay for kids as long as parents supervise. what a terrible choice of names
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And besides, it's not like he needs to hear this useless discussion
[15:25]	Charlette Proto: 	sure but Benj is not really very keen on what we raise anyway
[15:25]	Adz Childs: 	hehehe
[15:25]	Adz Childs: 	i've never been here.
[15:25]	Adz Childs: 	i was hoping to bring up my pet issue.
[15:25]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Would "Restricted"(i.e. Adult) and "Unrestricted" be better?
[15:26]	Aimee Trescothick: 	heh, you could read that the other way round
[15:26]	Charlette Proto: 	any thoughts on running chat text detection of commands for LSL would improve server lag (similar to HUD events)???
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hmm.. I'm not sure where is the best place for policy discussions... but well, today isn't really an on-topic day anyway
[15:26]	Aimee Trescothick: 	as in Unrestricted would be Adult, i.e. no restrictions
[15:26]	Geneko Nemeth: 	"Running chat text"? Like when someone says "please give me a kiss", fire an event?
[15:26]	StarSong Bright: 	we dont have a topic
[15:26]	Charlette Proto: 	yes
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, but I got "Unrestricted" by translating it from Chinese where... you know
[15:27]	Aimee Trescothick: 	err, that's basically what Listens are
[15:27]	Charlette Proto: 	the way it is peeps run AOs etc and LSL listens to all chat
[15:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Not really?
[15:27]	StarSong Bright: 	there needs to be a build in ao
[15:27]	StarSong Bright: 	i would be willing to bet that would reduce lag signifigantly
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Built-in AO isn't even new anymore... T_T
[15:28]	StarSong Bright: 	no, i know
[15:28]	Charlette Proto: 	I thought it would too and I actually have another great lag idea as well
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You can listen to a specific chat from llListen.
[15:28]	StarSong Bright: 	but its just assinine that we have gestures (which i loathe btw) and no built in way to make me walk with my favorite walk all the time
[15:28]	Aimee Trescothick: 	there shouldn't be a need for an AO
[15:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlListen
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	the client side detects position of all avatars for audio levels and chat distance
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Whynot?
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh... voice chat?
[15:29]	Aimee Trescothick: 	should just be able to spec the list of animations for each avatar to the server
[15:29]	Geneko Nemeth: 	That in a sense is a kind of AO...
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	and the active speakers list could have more info to make agent scanners superfluous
[15:29]	Charlette Proto: 	I agree on AOs on client side too
[15:29]	Aimee Trescothick: 	no to client side ao
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But you do need server side support for that.
[15:30]	Aimee Trescothick: 	client is the wrong place for it
[15:30]	StarSong Bright: 	i think the average user would be happy to simply be able to choose the basic things in the ordinary zhao - walk fly stand etc and jus thave th esystem take care of it, wihtout ao on and off for sits and stuff
[15:30]	Aimee Trescothick: 	the server knows when the client changes state
[15:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, currently "Active Speakers" is only an interface to Vivox.
[15:30]	Charlette Proto: 	but what do you think of active speakers list appended with more info to replace scanners
[15:30]	Aimee Trescothick: 	the agent I mean, i.e. running sitting whatever
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick: 	the lag issue is because it's being polled by the scripts constantly
[15:31]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Active Speakers -> Radar? I say yes.
[15:31]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Uh, AO has to be on both sides since the server needs to keep track of what animations are overriden or playing and the client have to play the overriden animation on event
[15:31]	Charlette Proto: 	but the chat distance is calculated by the viewer for all avies in the sime
[15:31]	Charlette Proto: 	sim*
[15:31]	Aimee Trescothick: 	there are client side scanner patches about
[15:31]	Charlette Proto: 	so it would be practical to display that and maybe a few other things
[15:32]	StarSong Bright: 	oh yes, radar like functionality is a big one, i remember as a noob not understanding the 20 m rule and always managing to talk to somone just out of chat range.. that can make sl feel like a very unfirendly place
[15:32]	Adz Childs: 	omv viewer has a nearby avatars floater
[15:32]	Aimee Trescothick: 	ah, gotta go, there's good explanation of why client side is not the right place for AO on the JIRA issue for it
[15:32]	Charlette Proto: 	I thinks (observed) that most peeps run scanners which cause heaps of lag when many avies are about
[15:32]	StarSong Bright: 	i live by my radar
[15:32]	Adz Childs: 	yeah. its double duty
[15:32]	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Detached. 	MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Detached.
[15:33]	Adz Childs: 	that info is already in the client
[15:33]	Geneko Nemeth takes off his radar 	Geneko Nemeth takes off his radar
[15:33]	Aimee Trescothick waves 	Aimee Trescothick waves
[15:33]	Charlette Proto: 	byee Aimee
[15:33]	Adz Childs: 	but its not accessible, so you need a HUD
[15:33]	StarSong Bright: 	bye
[15:33]	Adz Childs: 	its a waste for sure
[15:34]	Charlette Proto: 	sure I'm not blaming you for all lag in Second Life™ Star hehe, but the info is in the client so why not show it directly there without doing it again serverside
[15:34]	StarSong Bright: 	oh i totally agree, if this stuff was built in well i would use it, but the nearby avatars doesnt do it fo rme
[15:34]	Adz Childs: 	avatar scanner was one of the first creations after the viewer was OS'ed
[15:34]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Same thing for AO, it should be client-side but it's now done at the servers
[15:35]	Adz Childs: 	with AO you still need a way to tell nearby viewers about your anims
[15:35]	Charlette Proto: 	the active speakers, could be easily appended to show a few numerals and symbols to replace chat scanner display
[15:35]	Adz Childs: 	so it makes sense that is server-side
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It will probably be the first extension too when some viewer comes to have plugin support...
[15:35]	StarSong Bright: 	yes and then i might consider shutting my radar off permanently heh
[15:35]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It makes the best sense to have it on both sides.
[15:35]	StarSong Bright: 	thing is, i want to know whos at the edges of hearing too
[15:37]	Adz Childs gave you omv_avatar_list_512. 	Adz Childs gave you omv_avatar_list_512.
[15:37]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Mrr?
[15:37]	Charlette Proto: 	yes but like in the HUDs we discussed before Adz the events could be sent to server but a lot of it can be processed clientside so at least peeps with decent hardware don't lag
[15:37]	Adz Childs: 	i see.
[15:37]	Adz Childs: 	okay.
[15:38]	Adz Childs: 	so yeah the avatar list in omv viewer uses cyan text for within chat range, purple text for outside chat range
[15:38]	Charlette Proto: 	these days even the best PCs lag in busy sims since so many seasoned users just add HUDs and shit not aware of the lag they cause
[15:38]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Ahh... connection lag or render lag?
[15:39]	Adz Childs: 	region lag
[15:39]	Adz Childs: 	active script load
[15:39]	Charlette Proto: 	texture loading related lag and listeners all give the same results (one CPU)
[15:40]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Texture loading is client-server but listner is server-only.
[15:41]	Charlette Proto: 	if you took some of these avatar related lag (exponential load) the situation is improved more readily than eg textures since all peeps load the same textures from memory of the server
[15:41]	Charlette Proto: 	omv looks neat, is it a plgin you said Adz/
[15:42]	Adz Childs: 	its a full viewer
[15:42]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I don't think we have a viewer capable of client-side scripting yet...
[15:43]	Adz Childs: 	http://www.byteme.org.uk/secondlife.html
[15:43]	Charlette Proto: 	OK I get it, we could do the same in Imprudence i think and active speakers is the best place to put it i think rather than a separate list
[15:43]	Adz Childs: 	yes yes
[15:43]	Adz Childs: 	:D
[15:44]	Adz Childs: 	although the Avatar LIst includes a little column with a speaker icon too
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	yes Geneko, but this is another reason to push for it and it could be done like other viewer functions in C++ and not script
[15:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Mah? But making it a script would be better.
[15:44]	Charlette Proto: 	I assume the 'omv' does it as a binary not script
[15:45]	Adz Childs: 	yeah . its compiled in to the client
[15:45]	Adz Childs: 	i believe
[15:45]	Charlette Proto: 	yes I agree (I love script based code) but binary would do if the clientside scripts never take off
[15:46]	Charlette Proto: 	script would allow for dynamic behaviours in various tools but there is no indication as yet that the message is getting through
[15:47]	Adz Childs: 	hard to have optimism
[15:47]	StarSong Bright: 	well all, its betime for me
[15:47]	StarSong Bright: 	just catn keep up today anyways
[15:47]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Good night.
[15:48]	StarSong Bright: 	tc all
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	don't remember if Jacek was excited about the idea of clientside scripts but if she is onboard we could add it to Imprudence as fster way to implement some of it now
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	bye Star
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	nice to see you again
[15:48]	Charlette Proto: 	gooone
[15:49]	Charlette Proto: 	no reply from Morgaine
[15:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I just finished my C++ course but I'm the type who needs to compile 10 times for one line of code XD
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe me too I hate interfaces like gtc etc
[15:50]	Charlette Proto: 	I get all worked up when it runs and never feel it will run
[15:51]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hi Morgaine!
[15:52]	Charlette Proto: 	hi Morg (sorry I couldn't resist)
[15:52]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Moogle?
[15:53]	Charlette Proto: 	we've been talking about running agent detection for scanners etc on clientside and
[15:53]	Flight Band: 	All Go
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	appending the active speakers list to show the scanner like info about the avies
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	wow she missed it in a crash
[15:54]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Crash bang wallop
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	or is it a crush on someone here
[15:54]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe just kidding
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova: 	How is everybody?
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	fine thanks
[15:55]	Charlette Proto: 	we've been talking about running agent detection for scanners etc on clientside and appending the active speakers list to show the scanner like info about the avies
[15:55]	dogtow Hand: 	hello :o)
[15:55]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks for the call, Charlette
[15:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Antiproductive as usual.
[15:56]	Charlette Proto: 	what do you think Morgaine, we are of the opinion that it would save some server lag and would be easy since the info exixts for distance fading of voice and chat distance range
[15:56]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Haha, tnx dog
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well there's no doubt that the presentation would be vastly nicer client-side.
[15:57]	dogtow Hand: 	np :o) it tells when meetings are :o)
[15:57]	Charlette Proto: 	is dog bribing you already Morg?
[15:57]	dogtow Hand: 	:o)
[15:57]	Morgaine Dinova: 	No, he's just dropping hints that I shouldn't miss meetings :-)
[15:58]	dogtow Hand gave you GG Office Hours HUD v1.5. 	dogtow Hand gave you GG Office Hours HUD v1.5.
[15:58]	Geneko Nemeth doesn't use HUDs 	Geneko Nemeth doesn't use HUDs
[15:58]	dogtow Hand: 	bribe u too then sence your telling :o) lol
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	that is what i thought too and Adz has an exapmle of a viewer that does it outside of active speakers list but i think the AS is the best place in the UI to accommodate it
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Well in principle we can go far beyond that.
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Remember that we have the scenegraph available ... so your radar display can be as impressive as you like ;-)
[15:59]	dogtow Hand: 	have to run for now gl :o)
[15:59]	Charlette Proto: 	precisely, I want to make scanners superfluous so nobody would need to use them
[15:59]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Cyu dog :-)
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	bye dig
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	couldn't even spell his name dog
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That would be a nice app, Charlette
[16:00]	Charlette Proto: 	and server lag is becomming such a pain atm
[16:00]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Maybe we could have a chibi version of all avatars around? Problem is "fursuit" avatars...
[16:00]	Morgaine Dinova: 	And scanners are so crappy anyway
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hiyas!
[16:01]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe true
[16:01]	Charlette Proto: 	but good PCs do fur OK but don't help server script mess
[16:01]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	hello
[16:01]	Geneko Nemeth: 	That's... not what I mean... ^_^
[16:02]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hehe, we could use blue and pink dots for people based on some distinguishing feature :-)
[16:02]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	are any of you or all of you linden employee's?
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	None of us are.
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Surprise!
[16:02]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	hmmm
[16:02]	Charlette Proto: 	fur often is just a few textures that go to all clients but chat listeners and scanners hog the sim all the time and are exponential to number of avies present
[16:02]	Geneko Nemeth: 	And you came late anyway :3
[16:03]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	me?
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	O(n^2) then?
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yus, you.
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	what, do you want to hug a Linden Sabrina?
[16:03]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	latte for what?
[16:03]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Mmmm, latte
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	meeting we hold every week
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Aww... it's supposed to be beginning at 3PM. The previously-known-as-office-hour.
[16:03]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	didnt know anything about it
[16:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Ha, then how did you find here?
[16:03]	Charlette Proto: 	hon that is a neko AO Sabrina
[16:03]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	yes
[16:04]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	I took my tail & ears off a bit ago
[16:04]	Charlette Proto: 	looks kind of kinky to lick your arm is you not a cat
[16:04]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	they were not rezzing right
[16:04]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Brr... Neko is not short for "nekomimi"...
[16:04]	Charlette Proto: 	I don't see your neko kit Sabrina
[16:04]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	I am not waering it
[16:05]	Charlette Proto: 	not rezzing that is for sure i rez like a blade
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hasn't English murdered enough languages already? T_T
[16:05]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe you are one of the kind
[16:05]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet you came here to hug Benjamin Linden
[16:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Were Jacek and McCabe here?
[16:05]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	no, I was just looking to ask some questions
[16:05]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Err, no.
[16:06]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	dont know who bejemin linden is
[16:06]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ok
[16:06]	Charlette Proto: 	nope Morgaine, I wanted hints on sound from McCabe but no luck
[16:06]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Ask away, Lindens probably won't be able to answer anyway...
[16:06]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	I am gonna check the other lionden isl
[16:06]	Charlette Proto: 	well what do you know hon?
[16:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	They're pretending to be Lindens ;-)
[16:06]	Charlette Proto: 	shit you also type like a greek Sab
[16:07]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It's my favorite hobby.
[16:07]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	yea, my spelling sucks & my fingers are clumbzzzy
[16:08]	Charlette Proto: 	OK back to the unofficial topic, did Adz give you the UI pic Morgaine?
[16:08]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So... what's your question, Savrina?
[16:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Er ...
[16:08]	Charlette Proto: 	bet she wants a hug/kiss HUD
[16:08]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	well, I had an idea for something I wanted to create in sl
[16:08]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	a game per say
[16:08]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Don't think so Charlette
[16:08]	Charlette Proto: 	this is not a game Sab
[16:08]	Morgaine Dinova 接受了你提供的物品。 	Morgaine Dinova 接受了你提供的物品。
[16:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	No, but you can make one in SL.
[16:09]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	& I wanted to know if there was a way to patten it so that I could share my idea, with out it getting ripped off
[16:09]	Charlette Proto: 	yes but hardly a UI thing
[16:09]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It'll support games a lot better once we have scripting
[16:09]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Patent? Nah... not possible unless you go to USPTO (or your local equivant).
[16:09]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ahhh
[16:09]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ok
[16:09]	Charlette Proto: 	you can patent whatever you want so long that you can afford
[16:10]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Patents suck.
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Second Life has no such protection built in; moreover what can be seen, can be copied.
[16:10]	Charlette Proto: 	but Lindens are not thepeeps to talk to if you want the patent for yourself
[16:10]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	not a huge deal, but I wanted to include some friends in it, but dont want it getting out & copied or something
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	They don't, unless it's a software patent.
[16:10]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You can have the script set to no modify and then people won't be able to see it.
[16:10]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah we are not into patents Sab or else we wouldn't give our ideas out free here every week
[16:10]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	alrighty then
[16:11]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	guess I got my answer
[16:11]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	thx
[16:11]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	what do you mean?
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	wow easy life in Second Life™
[16:11]	Charlette Proto: 	what does who mean Sab?
[16:11]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	you come here & give out your ideas
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	We're here to discuss changes to the user interface and other aspects of user experience for Second Life.
[16:12]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	sorry, I am just getting into building & creating
[16:12]	Charlette Proto: 	yes every week we try to improve the Second Life™ viewer
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Well, everyone except me...
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	That includes making building tools easier to use.
[16:12]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	may I ask a dumb question?
[16:12]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah Genko just soaks what we say and sells it on ebay
[16:12]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nyahaha...
[16:13]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	what is an interface?
[16:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	If I could I would already have thousands of L$ rolling in. Alas, that's not the case.
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	bet you do good trade with Linden staff Geneko
[16:13]	Morgaine Dinova: 	We're happy for Geneko to take everything coz he's cute ;-)
[16:13]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh... an interface... is something you use to communicate with the computer.
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	yes i agree Morgaine
[16:13]	Geneko Nemeth blushes 	Geneko Nemeth blushes
[16:13]	Charlette Proto: 	Sabrina go right ahead
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Like buttons... keyboard... voice commands... that kind of stuff...
[16:14]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ohh
[16:14]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ok
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	nice one Geneko
[16:14]	bulle47 Abeyante下线了。 	bulle47 Abeyante下线了。
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	forgot the screen Geneko
[16:14]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Geneko, what are Mark and Get Key for?
[16:14]	Geneko Nemeth: 	"Mark and Get Key"?
[16:14]	Charlette Proto: 	essential part of feedback for sighted viewers now
[16:15]	Charlette Proto: 	???
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	In your diagram
[16:15]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	ok, well thanks for your help
[16:15]	Charlette Proto: 	sure Sab
[16:15]	Sabrina0007 Andel: 	happy holidays
[16:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Hmm, I have no idea. I've seen the description of these buttons somewhere, but it's not my screenshot...
[16:15]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Aha
[16:15]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Get Key should be easy to understand, it returns the avatar's UUID (maybe in Chat)?
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	that was Star's thing or the viewer Adz uses?
[16:16]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Adz's.
[16:16]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet is the UUID for avatar
[16:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah, but what does "Mark" mean?
[16:17]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Put a beacon on him?
[16:17]	Morgaine Dinova: 	So this is actually running in Adz's viewer?
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	something like that sounds possible to me
[16:17]	Charlette Proto: 	Adz are you asleep?
[16:18]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Seems like
[16:18]	Charlette Proto: 	Prince Adz is calling his slaves
[16:19]	Adz Childs: 	:)
[16:19]	Adz Childs: 	what what
[16:19]	Charlette Proto: 	what do the 'Mark' buttons do
[16:19]	Adz Childs: 	i don't know
[16:19]	Charlette Proto: 	wow
[16:19]	Adz Childs: 	i'm in the official viewer at the moment
[16:19]	Adz Childs: 	i didn't invent the thing
[16:20]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh, whose viewer did this come from?
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	but didn't you ever click them out of curiocity
[16:20]	Adz Childs: 	http://www.byteme.org.uk/secondlife.html
[16:20]	Adz Childs: 	i did not. i also did not click on Luskwood
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	I like byteme domain the best
[16:20]	Adz Childs: 	what if that button blew up the earth!
[16:20]	Charlette Proto: 	maybe it is a vampire thing like bloodlines
[16:20]	Morgaine Dinova: 	That's the risk you take
[16:20]	Adz Childs: 	sheesh you're more dangerous than a curious child
[16:21]	Adz Childs: 	;)
[16:21]	Charlette Proto: 	you are so not geek Adz
[16:21]	Adz Childs: 	hahha
[16:21]	Adz Childs: 	yeah
[16:21]	Geneko Nemeth: 	The "Luskwood" tab is for use with Luskwood's security system.
[16:21]	Geneko Nemeth: 	"Gohomer" I think.
[16:21]	Charlette Proto: 	I click rendering tests in Second Life™ viewer even though it crashes every time
[16:22]	Charlette Proto: 	well we don't need anything like that so we are back to the active speakers list which is there already and we could add to
[16:23]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Is OMV viewer just rebranded for Debian, or does it carry different patches to LL releases?
[16:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I would rather put it into a context menu rather having 5 tabs for commands.
[16:23]	McCabe Maxsted上线了。 	McCabe Maxsted上线了。
[16:23]	Charlette Proto: 	as it is the list is only good for muting but with distance etc info it would make sense to have it open all the time
[16:23]	Geneko Nemeth: 	It says not yet but it will soon switch to Meerkat as a base.
[16:24]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh, I must ask Gareth about Meerkat, as there's no indication of activity on the website
[16:24]	Charlette Proto: 	OK context woul also have less update dependent performance and could show little more than it does now
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	hi McCabe
[16:25]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ahoy there
[16:25]	McCabe Maxsted is a bit late, hehe 	McCabe Maxsted is a bit late, hehe
[16:25]	Charlette Proto: 	can you tell me or give a link to info on getting sound into windows Imprudence 1.0
[16:26]	Charlette Proto: 	I have voice with slvoice for now but would like sound as well
[16:26]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Hiya McCabe :-)
[16:26]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you need to compile the openal branch and get the openal sdk; I can make one for you if you want though
[16:26]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hey there morgaine :)
[16:27]	McCabe Maxsted: 	was hoping people would still be around, hehe. What've I missed?
[16:27]	Charlette Proto: 	shit don't you have a binary that I could use?
[16:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Umm... there's the suggestion that radar functionality should be merged into "nearby talkers" list...
[16:27]	Charlette Proto: 	I hate building and heard the souce of the viewer is not the simplest thing to build
[16:27]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Oh, it's simplier than before.
[16:28]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Well, on Linux at least...
[16:28]	Charlette Proto: 	OK I'll try to build it
[16:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, I might somewhere; I'd have to check my test folder
[16:28]	McCabe Maxsted 接受了你提供的物品。 	McCabe Maxsted 接受了你提供的物品。
[16:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ooh
[16:28]	McCabe Maxsted: 	what's this?
[16:28]	Charlette Proto: 	McCabe we've been talking about running agent detection for scanners etc on clientside and appending the active speakers list to show the scanner like info about the avies
[16:29]	Charlette Proto: 	if you have a build could you put it on the blog
[16:29]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Oh McCabe, reminds me, a question came up on the forum --- the reason why Linux release is lacking sound isn't that we're waiting for sound to work on Mac, is it?
[16:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ah dale glass' viewer
[16:30]	Charlette Proto: 	what do you think McCabe we are of the opinion that it would save some server lag and would be easy since the info exixts for distance fading of voice and chat distance range
[16:30]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, well jacek has sound on linux, I have it on windows, but we're sort of guessing it'll work on mac too. We don't really have a mac dev
[16:30]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Heh...
[16:30]	Charlette Proto: 	I want windows McCabe
[16:32]	Morgaine Dinova: 	So if it works on Lin + Win, why not release it? Mac issues shouldn't stop the others, I think
[16:32]	Charlette Proto: 	mac would be good to have but the dude who tried the mac download doesn't have a faintest clue and didn't even read release notes so like all mac users doesn't deserve our legwork at all
[16:33]	Geneko Nemeth: 	You could post an unofficial RC and have a Mac user try it maybe?
[16:33]	Charlette Proto: 	mac is a fashion and not so much a computing platform
[16:33]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Sai uses a Mac. Don't really think he'll build, but I could try and ask.
[16:34]	bulle47 Abeyante上线了。 	bulle47 Abeyante上线了。
[16:34]	Charlette Proto: 	BTW I love the current Imprudence build, fast satble, I'm amazed
[16:34]	Charlette Proto: 	stable*
[16:34]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, well, wouldn't be fair. Jacek'd rather release it with all three platforms working; plus we've got a bunch of other fixes/featurettes that we've had waiting to incorporate for the next version. Hm, that's a good idea Geneko
[16:34]	Charlette Proto: 	dislexic
[16:35]	Charlette Proto: 	but we could have unofficial patches for those who are willing to go the next step (mac users never do)
[16:35]	Morgaine Dinova: 	It would be perfectly fair to release without tested sound on Mac. LL released the Linux client with many missing features for ages.
[16:35]	Charlette Proto: 	so that would be fair
[16:36]	McCabe Maxsted: 	would Sai mind? He seems like a busy man, hehe
[16:36]	Charlette Proto: 	and voice/sound on Linden viewer is still a prob now for most users on eg Fedora
[16:36]	Morgaine Dinova: 	In fact, I'm not sure that video works on Linux even now -- gstreamer problems
[16:36]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Video works... I think...
[16:37]	McCabe Maxsted: 	mm, video, another problem
[16:37]	Charlette Proto: 	McCabe we've been talking about running agent detection for scanners etc on clientside and appending the active speakers list to show the scanner like info about the avies. what do you think McCabe we are of the opinion that it would save some server lag and would be easy since the info exixts for distance fading of voice and chat distance range
[16:37]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Well... works for me isn't the same thing as "works" XD
[16:37]	Morgaine Dinova: 	So I'm just saying ... the 3 platforms don't need to be all kept in step, as long as they roughly do.
[16:37]	Charlette Proto: 	video on mac or other platforms too
[16:38]	Morgaine Dinova: 	In one release, Win might be better, in next release, Linux might have leapfrogged, etc
[16:38]	Roof Doors: 	Geneko Nemeth is at the door.
[16:38]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm seconding Morgaine on that we should not hold back what works, this is a testbed and the more peeps use and change UI the better results from it
[16:39]	McCabe Maxsted nods. The info is there in the viewer. All the avatars in the current sim are sent to the viewer IIRC, it's just client side filtering that creates the active speakers list the way it does. It could easily be turned into a more informative radar-type widget, but how would it look/be used?	McCabe Maxsted nods. The info is there in the viewer. All the avatars in the current sim are sent to the viewer IIRC, it's just client side filtering that creates the active speakers list the way it does. It could easily be turned into a more informative radar-type widget, but how would it look/be used?
[16:39]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah, don't be prudent!!!
[16:39]	Morgaine Dinova chuckles 	Morgaine Dinova chuckles
[16:39]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hahaha
[16:39]	McCabe Maxsted grins 	McCabe Maxsted grins
[16:40]	Charlette Proto: 	I use it for 100% as is and miss out on gestures and streams for now, but getting other benefits and started to edit UI which was the main reason to try it
[16:41]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I'll pass all that along to jacek, see what she thinks. 1.1 isn't quite ready for RC but a sound... I dunno.. first look? for testing sounds like a good idea
[16:41]	Charlette Proto: 	that is what i thought McCabe and I think scanner HUDs waste sim resources in an exponentiall way as avaytar counts rise
[16:42]	Morgaine Dinova: 	This week is going to be a bit busy with Xmas and getting drunk, but I might be able to squeeze in a build.
[16:42]	Charlette Proto: 	skip a turkey Morg and you will be a prudent girl
[16:43]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Nooooo ... we can't be prudent ;-)
[16:43]	McCabe Maxsted: 	:D
[16:43]	Charlette Proto: 	neither me
[16:43]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Anyway, prudent isn't fun ;-)
[16:43]	Lexie Linden gave you Top Contributors to the Community Translation Projects!. 	Lexie Linden gave you Top Contributors to the Community Translation Projects!.
[16:43]	Morgaine Dinova: 	'Specially at Xmas :-)
[16:43]	Geneko Nemeth: 	So if you don't mind me being imprudent, would it be okay for me to litter the codebase with bad code? XD
[16:43]	Charlette Proto: 	pragmatic and prudent are just not my words
[16:44]	Charlette Proto: 	yeah Geneko, put some easter eggs in it for the next festive season
[16:44]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Haha
[16:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	:D hehe
[16:44]	Morgaine Dinova 接受了你提供的物品。 	Morgaine Dinova 接受了你提供的物品。
[16:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	"It's not a bug it's a feature"?
[16:44]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ctrl-shift-alt-g "Geneko is god!"
[16:44]	Geneko Nemeth: 	But I already put an easter egg in the Viewer without writing a line of code...
[16:44]	Charlette Proto: 	we could do with a mac easter egg, the poor peeps never seen one yet
[16:45]	Charlette Proto: 	how do i get it Geneko?
[16:45]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet i need to type "?geneko Nemeth"
[16:45]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Switch interface language to Chinese and feed Second Life a garbaged secondlife:// schema.
[16:46]	Charlette Proto: 	nice does it spell words in UI backwords
[16:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I changed a particular Linden's UUID to mine. :3
[16:46]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe bet it is Benj
[16:46]	Geneko Nemeth: 	I'm not sure if the Lindens have removed it from release, but from my diff, it doesn't seem to be so.
[16:46]	McCabe Maxsted: 	if you've got a good patch though there are instructions on the wiki on how to submit it to our lighthouse list, that's where we're keeping track of patches/dev work stuffs
[16:46]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hahahaha
[16:47]	McCabe Maxsted: 	that would be pretty nifty to suddenly see your name change
[16:47]	McCabe Maxsted: 	geneko linden... wha?
[16:47]	McCabe Maxsted: 	tp into linden world, cause havok
[16:47]	Geneko Nemeth: 	secondlife:///app/agent/0e346d8b-4433-4d66-a6b0-
??? fd37083abc4c/about
[16:47]	Geneko Nemeth: 	secondlife:///app/agent/0e346d8b-4433-4d66-a6b0-fd37083abc4c/about
[16:47]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Nope, it's Kelly Linden.
[16:48]	McCabe Maxsted: 	heh
[16:48]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe
[16:48]	McCabe Maxsted: 	"Bling Master"
[16:48]	Charlette Proto: 	what is Bling Master???
[16:49]	Charlette Proto: 	no pics???
[16:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	secondlife:///app/agent/ae1c96b8-9bca-4e5b-9418-80e5397a2b41/about is mine.
[16:49]	Charlette Proto: 	no info at all - total geek
[16:49]	McCabe Maxsted: 	hm, that's something on my task list: make urls in profiles and alert dialogs clickable
[16:49]	Geneko Nemeth: 	There's a JIRA for it.
[16:49]	Charlette Proto: 	Geneko I think my main account is the same rezz day as yours
[16:50]	Charlette Proto: 	or may be 11th
[16:51]	Charlette Proto: 	OK would you be behind appending active speakers list with distance etc info/icons McCabe?
[16:52]	Geneko Nemeth: 	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10636
[16:52]	Charlette Proto: 	I bet it wold sva a bit of lag in busy places
[16:52]	Charlette Proto: 	save*
[16:53]	Morgaine Dinova: 	I think the first hack I'm going to make in the viewer if it's not done already is going to be disabling auto opening/closing of inventory folders. I was pulling my hair out today when moving things around, it's a disaster.
[16:53]	McCabe Maxsted: 	definitely; I like the idea. One of the things I like about my current radar is it doesn't take up much screen space though so I can keep it always open, so need to think about that
[16:53]	McCabe Maxsted: 	you mean when dragging stuff up and down?
[16:53]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yeah
[16:53]	Charlette Proto: 	yes i hate it sooo much I use two windows just to cope with that
[16:53]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oooh yeah
[16:53]	Charlette Proto: 	that is such a pain
[16:54]	McCabe Maxsted: 	I think there's a setting for it---how long you hover over a folder before it auto expands, I dunno. Been a while since I've looked over that bit. Good hack to start with though :)
[16:54]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Yeah it defaults to 5 seconds....
[16:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	No wait, one second.
[16:55]	McCabe Maxsted: 	oh, ouch
[16:55]	Charlette Proto: 	yes but the chat display could also be used by having a button to spit out info as necessary and icons/info as contextual mouseovers in active speakers
[16:55]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Mouseovers are a bad idea...
[16:56]	Charlette Proto: 	well mouseovers are also not suited to other forms of interaction
[16:57]	Charlette Proto: 	especially voice and gestures etc
[16:57]	Geneko Nemeth: 	We don't have lists that can have columns added / removed like Mozilla yet do we?
[16:57]	McCabe Maxsted has a deep loathing for mouseover interfaces 	McCabe Maxsted has a deep loathing for mouseover interfaces
[16:58]	Charlette Proto: 	do you mean mac like finder display
[16:58]	McCabe Maxsted: 	could definitely do it as a client side hud though, like the navbar
[16:58]	Adz Childs: 	good bye all
[16:58]	Adz Childs: 	:)
[16:58]	Geneko Nemeth: 	Bye.
[16:58]	Adz Childs: 	nice office hour
[16:58]	Charlette Proto: 	shy to admit to being familiar with mac at all but partner is a mac user
[16:59]	Charlette Proto: 	bye Adz
[16:59]	McCabe Maxsted: 	take care adz
[16:59]	Charlette Proto: 	come any thursday
[16:59]	Charlette Proto: 	he is such a scout
[16:59]	McCabe Maxsted: 	scout?
[17:00]	Charlette Proto: 	yean a boy too scared to touch a button in the UI in cas the world wold go to war
[17:00]	Charlette Proto: 	case*
[17:01]	McCabe Maxsted: 	ah
[17:01]	McCabe Maxsted grins at the idea of adding a Big Red Button 	McCabe Maxsted grins at the idea of adding a Big Red Button
[17:02]	Danica Linden上线了。 	Danica Linden上线了。
[17:02]	Charlette Proto: 	that would be good to have a button to crash the sim without having to wear the giant snowman and risk looking like a fool
[17:02]	McCabe Maxsted: 	could throw into the toolbar as an easter egg, labeled "Do not touch!"
[17:03]	McCabe Maxsted: 	what should happen when you press it though?
[17:03]	Geneko Nemeth: 	about:robots...
[17:03]	Charlette Proto: 	hey Morgain could you sing a bit of music from the stream so I don't feel so left out
[17:03]	Charlette Proto: 	look above McCabe, crash the sim
[17:03]	McCabe Maxsted: 	:P
[17:04]	Charlette Proto: 	what about another hidden menu like admin with just one red button
[17:04]	Charlette Proto: 	no better the middle of the pie
[17:05]	Charlette Proto: 	kidding
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Eeek, I fell asleep
[17:05]	Charlette Proto: 	I'm going to stuff my pie fool of miced fruit
[17:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	aww
[17:05]	McCabe Maxsted: 	in the UK morgaine?
[17:05]	Charlette Proto: 	hehe not surprised I asked you to sing
[17:05]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Need to head to bed folks, see you later
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Yep McCabe. Got up early today
[17:06]	Charlette Proto: 	I havent been to bed as usual
[17:06]	Charlette Proto: 	see you Morgaine have a good sleep
[17:06]	McCabe Maxsted: 	'night, then! Thanks for the good ideas :)
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova: 	Thanks. Night night all :-)
[17:06]	Morgaine Dinova waves 	Morgaine Dinova waves
[17:06]	Charlette Proto: 	byeee
[17:07]	McCabe Maxsted: 	has anyone posted a transcript to the wiki, or have a copy they could send?
[17:08]	Charlette Proto: 	I'll give you a notecard if you like
[17:08]	McCabe Maxsted: 	sure, that works