Bug triage/2009-07-13/Transcript

* [12:04] Soft Linden: Do we ahve an agenda?
* [12:04] Tigger Fellini: seems so talking of which brb, I need a drink
* [12:04] Moon Metty: thank you for the update Soft
* [12:04] Darv Linden: 
* [12:04] Popcorn! (female): whispers: Use Mouselook (press 'M') to throw popcorn.
* [12:04] Popcorn! (female): whispers: Choose 'Detach' from my menu to take me off.
* [12:04] Techwolf Lupindo: 
* [12:05] Soft Linden: Gendered popcorn.
* [12:05] Coleslaw Loon: wb erin
* [12:05] Yann Dufaux: wb erinyse :)
* [12:05] Soft Linden: ah cool, yup! Up-to-date agenda.
* [12:05] Erinyse Planer: thanks sorry. crashes are rare for me, but snowglobe still doesnt always like me :P
* [12:05] Soft Linden: SVC-4497[c
* [12:05] JIRA-helper: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4497 : 
* llSetScriptState() resets the script !
* [12:05] Soft Linden: Oops - I think we've got two jira helpers out
* [12:05] Techwolf Lupindo: Hmm...is there a jira that ask for a new feature to have a way to ident that object " Popcorn! (female) whispers"?
* [12:05] Moon Metty: we have a jira helper rezzed here :)
* [12:05] Imaze Rhiano: ops
* [12:05] Moon Metty: permanently
* [12:06] Imaze Rhiano: sorry
* [12:06] Dessie Linden: Hi everyone!
* [12:06] Soft Linden: ah okay, this is marked as a dupe of other issues
* [12:06] Erinyse Planer: dessie *nods*
* [12:06] Harleen Gretzky: Cummere re-resolved this as a duplicate before the meeting but I have a feeling if a Linden does not comment in agreement it will be reopened by the OP
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: this is resolved again... I will wait to see if it gets re-opened again
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: jinx
* [12:07] Harleen Gretzky: lol
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: thanks for re-closing it again
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: let's see how long it lasts :p
* [12:07] Soft Linden: afaik, it's always worked this way. It should really be a feature request...
* [12:07] Erinyse Planer: I tried to say why it was respolved and that it didnt mean it was gonna be ignored
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: right, exactly
* [12:07] Techwolf Lupindo: Defentelly need a way for scripts to subspend themselves.
* [12:07] Alexa Linden: we can offer that as an option too
* [12:07] Moon Metty: there is even a FR for the opposite
* [12:08] Moon Metty: to always reset the script
* [12:08] Soft Linden: If someone really wants this, consider updating the related issues to be feature requests, describing the desired behavior
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: what do you think soft?
* [12:08] Squirrel Wood: many scripts are written to never be reset
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:08] Soft Linden: For this one, can re-resolve as a duplicate.
* [12:08] Alexa Linden: I will add that to the comments
* [12:08] Soft Linden: Just so people know...
* [12:08] Soft Linden: The bug vs feature request thing isn't just bureaucracy. The two issue types get treated really differently.
* [12:09] Soft Linden: Feature requests need more discussion, and would have to be approved by different people than just plain old bug fixes.
* [12:09] Erinyse Planer: would it be possible to make it easier to switch the two?
* [12:09] Soft Linden: Not just Linden discussion, but discussion from resis who might be able to think of ways that a new feature would break content, etc.
* [12:09] Erinyse Planer: like even if only the orriginal poster could do it that would help?
* [12:09] Soft Linden: I think anyone can do it by 'moving' the issue.
* [12:10] Latif Khalifa: you said it wasn't beurocracy ("need to be aproved by different people sounds very beurocatic ;)
* [12:10] Soft Linden: It's just not straighforward.
* [12:10] Harleen Gretzky: They can do that now I thought
* [12:10] Darv Linden: Yep; if you see something that should be a bug or should be a feature request, feel free to notice and change the type early on :)
* [12:10] Darv Linden: Latif - isn't *just* bureaucracy :P
* [12:10] Soft Linden: Hot by vote...
* [12:10] Latif Khalifa: hehehe
* [12:10] Soft Linden: SVC-4529[c
* [12:10] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4529: 
* [#SVC-4529] items, made: from scratch, no scripts, say mod, but aren't modifiable
* [12:10] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4529: 
* [#SVC-4529] items, made: from scratch, no scripts, say mod, but aren't modifiable
* [12:10] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529]]: 
* [12:10] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529]]: 
* [12:10] Erinyse Planer: they change the restrictions? I thought only approved users could move issues?
* [12:10] Latif Khalifa: "fun with permissions" ;)
* [12:11] Phantom Ninetails: Sebastean, you don't need to have your JIRA helper out
* [12:11] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oh whoops, that's mine.
* [12:11] Harleen Gretzky: Not everyone can move, but thought OPs could change the type
* [12:11] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes Phantom, I just realized I'd left it on from earlier.
* [12:11] Phantom Ninetails: 'Kay
* [12:11] Soft Linden: Can the OP move?
* [12:11] Sebastean Steamweaver: thanks :)
* [12:11] Harleen Gretzky: They can't move but pretty sure they can change the type
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:12] Soft Linden: This is related to a small tangle of other similar issues.
* [12:12] Soft Linden: Alexa - import and we can link it up internally
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:12] Alexa Linden: smiles at bunneh Kerry
* [12:12] Soft Linden: I think we need to get QA to try and simplify these. My eyes glaze over on all of 'em!
* [12:12] Kerry Giha: :)
* [12:12] Moon Metty: yup
* [12:12] Soft Linden: MISC-2847[c
* [12:12] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2847: 
* [#MISC-2847] flag parameter: [vector slice
* [12:13] Soft Linden: Dupe of SVC-4418 I think?
* [12:13] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4418: 
* [#SVC-4418] is: not returning the new SLICE values
* [12:13] Moon Metty: is it possible to make the list of parameters longer?
* [12:13] Moon Metty: or does it need a new constant?
* [12:13] Soft Linden: Ah, the other is for getting, this is for setting.
* [12:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sort of. I had a problem with this earlier.
* [12:13] Soft Linden: alexa - would you import, link to DEV-34763 ?
* [12:13] Harleen Gretzky: SVC-4418 was for Get this is for Set
* [12:13] Alexa Linden: will do
* [12:14] Soft Linden: relates to
* [12:14] Soft Linden: yup
* [12:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: I had a sliced cylinder, which lost its sllice when I used the llSetPrimitivParams constant.
* [12:14] Soft Linden: VWR-14614[c
* [12:14] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14614: 
* [#VWR-14614] Residents Populate: Ban List
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Ha! Talk about adding insult to injury.
* [12:14] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [12:14] Soft Linden: Man, I'm not sure what to do on this one...
* [12:15] Soft Linden: The thing is, sometimes accounts are suspended, and then reopened on appeal
* [12:15] Moon Metty: it has a lot of a feature request
* [12:15] Soft Linden: So you wouldn't want to drop them right away.
* [12:15] Techwolf Lupindo: Shoujld this be a SVC featrue request?
* [12:15] Erinyse Planer: maybe a 30 day experation?
* [12:15] Moon Metty: and a good FR too
* [12:15] WolfPup Lowenhar: this looks like ming need to be more of database cleaning for sinms
* [12:15] Yann Dufaux: FR?
* [12:15] Samantha Poindexter: If working that end of it is problematic, might it be possible to make a easier way of working through the list?
* [12:15] Alexa Linden: Feature Request
* [12:16] Yann Dufaux: okey :)
* [12:16] Soft Linden: That's what I'm thinking, Samantha.
* [12:16] Yann Dufaux: ty
* [12:16] Erinyse Planer: most bans are 30 days or less right?
* [12:16] Yann Dufaux: confusing term for me lol
* [12:16] Soft Linden: Like - maybe adding an asterisk next to currently closed accounts. Then let the estate/parcel owner decide what to do
* [12:16] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:16] Darv Linden: Yep
* [12:16] Moon Metty: yeah
* [12:16] Soft Linden: Would someone write that up as a feature request?
* [12:16] Soft Linden: If you do that and then assign it to me, I'll import it straight away
* [12:17] Erinyse Planer: maybe ill make a feature request for soemthing to automatically remove accounts suspended and not reactivated after 32 das then
* [12:17] Erinyse Planer: and i can do the one soft wants too
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: great thanks
* [12:17] Soft Linden: I've seen accounts reactivated after longer than that, though. Dunno
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: and then I will mark the original if you link together?
* [12:17] Soft Linden: Still. 30 would be hard for riefers to abuse.
* [12:17] Soft Linden: griefers
* [12:17] Alexa Linden: right
* [12:17] Techwolf Lupindo: I think the asterect one can be impleted client side. All the others need to be impliented server side.e
* [12:17] Soft Linden: kk
* [12:18] Erinyse Planer: okay made a note to myself ill make the frs this week
* [12:18] Alexa Linden: thanks
* [12:18] Soft Linden: Even that one, we'd need to add to the server message. But yeah.
* [12:18] Soft Linden: VWR-10274[c
* [12:18] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10274: 
* [#VWR-10274] Stream from: Quicktime Streaming Server looks pixely and on the windows client has a green bar underneath it.
* [12:18] Harleen Gretzky: Now that the stream is up this reproduces for me even at my own parcel
* [12:18] Phantom Ninetails: Hey if you ditch quicktime you wouldn't have to deal with that bug.
* [12:18] Soft Linden: Okay - let's import. There's an url to a location for it
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:19] Soft Linden: yay
* [12:19] Soft Linden: VWR-14648[c
* [12:19] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14648: 
* [#VWR-14648] my copy-mod: kitchens have turned no copy mod, copy no mod, or no perms. Inside the kitchens are copy no mod items which rez on touch.
* [12:19] Elisha Richez: qt sux *cough*
* [12:19] Moon Metty: hmmm, can you cook on a no mod kitchen?
* [12:19] Soft Linden: It's awesome that this bug only affects kitchens.
* [12:19] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:19] Erinyse Planer: okay not sure if this is relevant, but ive noticed a ton of other permission bugs apeparing or reappearing the last few weeks
* [12:19] Harleen Gretzky: lol
* [12:19] Yann Dufaux: yeah i have snowglobe i can test this :)
* [12:19] Latif Khalifa: adds "big time" to Elisha's comment
* [12:19] Erinyse Planer: and trust me it aint just kitchens
* [12:20] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:20] Yann Dufaux: but you don,t take the suffix snow- before?
* [12:21] Soft Linden: hrm
* [12:21] Soft Linden: Is this reproducible?
* [12:21] Erinyse Planer: yes
* [12:21] Imaze Rhiano: that is weird bug
* [12:21] Erinyse Planer: but not reliably. and theres lots of other similar things going on with perm changes. we actually discussed them in andrews hours last week too
* [12:21] Sebastean Steamweaver: I wonder if its at all related to SVC-4444
* [12:21] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4444: 
* [#SVC-4444] become fully: permissive when rezzed - with repro
* [12:21] Latif Khalifa: is anything about permission working lol?
* [12:22] Harleen Gretzky: Same as https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4529?
* [12:22] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-4529]]: 
* [12:22] Soft Linden: Can I hand this object to someone, see if you can modify it?
* [12:22] Soft Linden: Any volunteers?
* [12:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sure
* [12:22] Erinyse Planer: sure
* [12:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Toss it over
* [12:22] Imaze Rhiano: okay
* [12:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: It's mod to me.
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: no modify in inventory
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Try rezzing that, see if you can rescale
* [12:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yep, just did.
* [12:23] Latif Khalifa: there is also next-owner-persmissions applied on rez bug too
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: modify out of inventory
* [12:23] Soft Linden: Yeah, should show no-modify in inventory
* [12:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yeah, it's no-mod in inventory. Out of inventory it's fine.
* [12:23] Erinyse Planer: butttt....
* [12:23] Moon Metty: hehe
* [12:24] Moon Metty: uh oh
* [12:24] Soft Linden: buttttt?
* [12:24] Erinyse Planer: putting it back down a second time
* [12:24] Erinyse Planer: no mod
* [12:24] Alexa Linden: yup
* [12:24] Soft Linden: (big buttttt)
* [12:24] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [12:24] Elisha Richez: hmm scarey
* [12:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: Even taking my copy into inventory and rerezzing it, it's still mod for me.
* [12:24] Imaze Rhiano: I think that inventory is showing allwasy strickest permission set
* [12:24] Soft Linden: right.
* [12:24] Dessie Linden: gave you GasMask V2.0 (WEAR ME!).
* [12:24] Darv Linden: Are there contents in the object which are no-mod?
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Inventory is supposed to (but doesn't always) show the most restrictive component.
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Yes. I put a no-mod snowball in inventory.
* [12:25] Darv Linden: Ah, okay.
* [12:25] Phantom Ninetails: Funny how having a no mod content makes it impossible to rename in inventory
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Snowbox.
* [12:25] Opensource Obscure: (my UI just turned half transparent - im on snow globe. if you know about a existing report please IM me details)
* [12:25] Yann Dufaux: i need to test in aditi next times
* [12:25] Erinyse Planer: *nods* when i rezed the object the second time for me even after it was on the ground it stayed no mod. despite the fact only the inventory inside was supposed to be
* [12:25] Soft Linden: I think if we import this right now, it will just sit.
* [12:25] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:25] Soft Linden: Let's put an NMI out, asking if anyone can find repro steps
* [12:26] Soft Linden: That would help a ton.
* [12:26] Yann Dufaux: okey i take the notes :)
* [12:26] Soft Linden: WEB-1179[c
* [12:26] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1179: 
* [#WEB-1179] to submit: new thread on forums - 404 error/url /newthread.php not found..
* [12:26] Erinyse Planer: um sugest linking it to 4444 and the other one mentioned too
* [12:26] Sebastean Steamweaver: Do you think it's related to SVC-4444 Soft?
* [12:26] Soft Linden: possible, Seb
* [12:26] Latif Khalifa: there is something definetly fishy on rez when permissions are applied, all sort of funky stuff happens
* [12:26] Soft Linden: Is this JIRA still right?
* [12:27] Moon Metty: hi OS
* [12:27] Soft Linden: From the comments, looks likely
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Alexa - import for web triage attention?
* [12:27] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:27] Latif Khalifa: btw. is it me or does everyone account show not age verified all of a sudden?
* [12:27] Soft Linden: Curses. We'll have to find some other way to stifle free speech. Nya ha ha.
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: I notices that too Latif
* [12:28] Squirrel Wood: Evil Rabbit I pull your Right Ears Long.
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: noticed*
* [12:28] Erinyse Planer: mine stopped showing age verified
* [12:28] Latif Khalifa: Alexa, also its not possible to verify
* [12:28] Soft Linden: Latif / Erinyse - showing where?
* [12:28] Soft Linden: Web? In the viewer?
* [12:28] Latif Khalifa: Soft, on the web, account page
* [12:28] Erinyse Planer: anywhere
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: both
* [12:28] Soft Linden: bagh. Is there a JIRA? We should import asap if so
* [12:28] Sebastean Steamweaver: Age verification has not worked at all for me.
* [12:28] Latif Khalifa: like all age verification data was wiped out from all accounts
* [12:28] Alexa Linden: yup there's a jura
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: jira*
* [12:29] Harleen Gretzky: WEB-1212
* [12:29] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1212: 
* [#WEB-1212] verification results: lost
* [12:29] Soft Linden: web-1212 ?
* [12:29] Erinyse Planer: um ild say that is a showstopper level
* [12:29] Phantom Ninetails: Age verification is useless anyway
* [12:29] Soft Linden: Yeah. Let's import that bad boy.
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: that's one of them
* [12:29] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:29] Latif Khalifa: I can still get into parcels that require age verification, but it does not show anywhere
* [12:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: The page said the info was accepted and age verification was complete, but my avatar and alt avatars are still blocked from age-verified restricted parcels, which has been really annoying when trying to help customers.
* [12:30] Soft Linden: Alright. We'll find out what's going on there.
* [12:30] Phantom Ninetails: Why does payment info still not count as age verification.
* [12:30] Imaze Rhiano: it is different
* [12:30] Mythoes Llewellyn: mine was supposed to be manually added when i had to id verifify to getreactivated. im still not
* [12:31] Soft Linden: Phantom - it should, or will afaik. I'm hazy on this.
* [12:31] Phantom Ninetails: Payment info does just as well to verify being an adult
* [12:31] Yann Dufaux: the age verification is been entred but in the region you can have a bugs with error message if you enter on th
* [12:31] Soft Linden: WEB-1205[c
* [12:31] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1205: 
* [#WEB-1205] can't list: Mature events on Zindra
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: can you re-open a ticket for that Mythoes?
* [12:31] Yann Dufaux: the region with age verification limites
* [12:31] Imaze Rhiano: age verification is parcel option - payment info is used sim wide adult rating
* [12:31] Alexa Linden: if there was one for it before
* [12:31] Mythoes Llewellyn: the id one was locked '
* [12:31] Latif Khalifa: Imaze, for sim entry its either age verified or payment
* [12:31] Imaze Rhiano: well... ya
* [12:32] Soft Linden: Alexa - import WEB-1205 would ya?
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: this one I saw and already imported
* [12:32] Alexa Linden: yup :)
* [12:32] Harleen Gretzky: You missed VWR-14606
* [12:32] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-14606: 
* [#VWR-14606] an avatar: has only one role without a blank title and their active title was blanked, they can no longer change active titles
* [12:32] Soft Linden: ah whoops - yup!
* [12:32] Phantom Ninetails: Yeah, requires payment OR age verification for "account verification" to get into an adult region.. But payment doesnt help with parcels that require age verification.
* [12:32] Erinyse Planer: ill just include a reference for it, when i file one to get my alt fixed
* [12:32] Soft Linden: whoot - go minidevilthing
* [12:32] Samantha Poindexter: As for that, I would note that insofar as it deals with the event system not recognizing changes in the grid architecture, WEB-1205 is related to WEB-814 , which got imported back in January.
* [12:32] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-814: 
* [#WEB-814] post event: where land's landing point's Z is > 768
* [12:32] Imaze Rhiano: that is correct phantom
* [12:33] Erinyse Planer: and according to kb info on file is suppsoed to give you an age verrification still. though at some point in the future that supposedly will end
* [12:33] Samantha Poindexter: This makes me slightly nervous about the timetable. :-)
* [12:33] Soft Linden: I found a bit of code that still had the 768 limit in it. There's an internal JIRA to fix that. Would also fix parcel bans to go up to 4096 too.
* [12:33] Soft Linden: SVC-2273[c
* [12:33] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2273: 
* [#SVC-2273] randomly shutting: themselves off
* [12:34] Erinyse Planer: can we make the ban heights infinate PLEASE?
* [12:34] Latif Khalifa: that would be great, had a big problem that parcel ban does not affect buidlings higher than 768
* [12:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: Would that old code with the 768m limit happen to be the minimap that shows people above 768m as being below you?
* [12:34] Latif Khalifa: Sebastian, that's problem with server message that is limited to 8 bits (0-255)
* [12:34] Soft Linden: Seb - no, that has to be fixed elsewhere. The problem on that is the number sent for agent positions on the map doesn't have enough bits to represent higher values
* [12:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ahh
* [12:35] Latif Khalifa: they multiply by 4 so you get 4m coarse reading 0-1024
* [12:35] Latif Khalifa: but impossible to change unless server -> viewer message is changed too, which is kind of pita
* [12:35] Yann Dufaux: hey Dessie!! :)
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Still on SVC-2273[c
* [12:35] Soft Linden: Man, that jeffbot is getting lazy
* [12:36] Erinyse Planer: sometimes wonders with all the changes in sl, maybe it might be easier on the poor deves to start over wtih SL2.0 ><
* [12:36] Soft Linden: Or did someone put both away, not just the extra?
* [12:36] Imaze Rhiano: that 2273 is missing example
* [12:36] Alexa Linden: nope
* [12:36] Morgaine Dinova: Age verification is just a temporary abberation anyway, since logins are heading towards OpenID-based and the whole silly concept becomes non-viable on Internet scale.
* [12:36] Moon Metty: Soft, it doesn't keep repeating the same numbers
* [12:36] Samantha Poindexter: intones SVC-2273
* [12:36] Darv Linden: Soft - It's not jeffbot here :P
* [12:36] Samantha Poindexter: ...hmm. So much for that hypothesis.
* [12:36] Soft Linden: ah, gotcha
* [12:36] Moon Metty: 
* [12:36] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#SVC-2273|JIRA-helper: [#SVC-2273]]: 
* [12:36] Moon Metty: unless you give the full url
* [12:37] Erinyse Planer: yeah that one crippled my business
* [12:37] Soft Linden: I don't know what to do on this one, since "randomly after a long time" is really frickin' hard to debug.
* [12:37] Soft Linden: I think it might be best to ask someone who encounters this to follow up with a location when it happens.
* [12:37] Erinyse Planer: soft Ild LOVE to help you narow it down, but it seesm for me long time can be anywhere between a day and a month
* [12:38] Soft Linden: We can look in the logs and see if there was any clue, like a script crash or an EM turning off scripts.
* [12:38] Morgaine Dinova: Soft: instrument script terminations so that you know their causes.
* [12:38] Latif Khalifa: Soft, I have simiar problem with scripts forgettin debit permission, but it happen to 3-4 of my vendores once in a blue moon, so I didn't even file a jira with so little information.
* [12:38] Soft Linden: I'll watch this issue. And then let's NMI, asking for a location & object name when it next happens.
* [12:38] Harleen Gretzky: You missed VWR-14606 on the agenda BTW
* [12:38] Latif Khalifa: still very annoting
* [12:38] Imaze Rhiano: maybe script memory usage related - or event queue full
* [12:39] Soft Linden: And yeah. Some kind of persistent debug information, hmm.
* [12:39] Erinyse Planer: if it helps soft, I have a support ticket that is closed nwo that requested a rollback on an object cause of this issue. that can give you a second set of datum to use if you want
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Erinyse - it's best if it's within a day of it happening. Much more detailed logs still available.
* [12:39] Erinyse Planer: if it happens again, want me to send you a nc direct?
* [12:39] Soft Linden: Also - if someone wants to create a feature request, having scripts email their owner the stack trace when they crash would be a great idea.
* [12:40] Soft Linden: If the owner isn't present
* [12:40] Morgaine Dinova: After instrumenting the termination cause, make each valid termination supply a reason, and then see what reason is missing when this Jira recurrs
* [12:40] Soft Linden: That make sense?
* [12:40] Sebastean Steamweaver: I can do that for you Soft.
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Cool! Thanks, Seb
* [12:40] Darv Linden: Soft - and if owner can mod the script?
* [12:40] Alexa Linden: so LT on this one?
* [12:40] Latif Khalifa: Soft, do you have ant way to look into script state of a running sim. Ie. when one of my scripts decide to forget debit permission, would it be possible for someone to have a look while its happening?
* [12:40] Squirrel Wood: Mmmm. Snack trace...
* [12:40] Sebastean Steamweaver: How about, email the creator?
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Darv - whatever the current restrictions are for showing stack traces.
* [12:40] Squirrel Wood: Where's my sheep?
* [12:40] Latif Khalifa: any*
* [12:40] Soft Linden: Can hash out more details when the JIRA exists
* [12:41] Soft Linden: So this one, anyway - NMI, let us know when it next happens. Object name and location.
* [12:41] Samantha Poindexter: Right, good point, Harleen. We skipped 
* [12:41] [[User:JIRA-helper: [#VWR-14606|JIRA-helper: [#VWR-14606]]: 
* [12:41] Soft Linden: Ah! Sure did!
* [12:41] Soft Linden: VWR-14606[c
* [12:41] Erinyse Planer: since theres allot of fr's being requested if someone can either nc or email me about them, ill creat them all and turn them over to whoever wants them in one batch
* [12:41] Techwolf Lupindo: e-mail sould only go to script owner, that way one can't mod a script and flood the creator in a DoS.
* [12:42] Erinyse Planer: looks between the lindens present
* [12:42] Sebastean Steamweaver: We'll figure out something Tech :)
* [12:42] Soft Linden: Thanks for adding the clarifying notes to that, Harleen
* [12:42] Soft Linden: Alexa - import this, wouldja?
* [12:42] Harleen Gretzky: np
* [12:43] Alexa Linden: will do
* [12:43] Soft Linden: VWR-5832[c
* [12:43] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5832: 
* [#VWR-5832] Crash -: Network Data fall to Zero - Crash Logger does not detect crash
* [12:44] Phantom Ninetails: Sounds like what happens when the region crashes without telling clients or the dataserver that it has crashed.
* [12:44] Yann Dufaux: 0 kbps?
* [12:44] Squirrel Wood: I do get 0kbps at times
* [12:44] Erinyse Planer: silent crash :(
* [12:44] Squirrel Wood: though it continues after a short while
* [12:44] Techwolf Lupindo: That what happens in a sim crash or too many avatar tp in and overload the sim.
* [12:44] Elisha Richez: hmm..that happened to me yesterday
* [12:44] Squirrel Wood: as if nothing was wrong
* [12:45] Yann Dufaux: little crash if you observ your mini-map take a red color no?
* [12:45] Imaze Rhiano: could it also be ISP throttling?
* [12:45] Opensource Obscure: this is happening to me quite often since a few days, i'm blaming my connection - i usually get a 'disconnected!' message though
* [12:45] Yann Dufaux: i thinks a little isp freez yeah
* [12:46] Yann Dufaux: or ip and dns change
* [12:46] Soft Linden: I'm sure inclined to think this is network related. That's not to say there might not be something we should fix...
* [12:46] Yann Dufaux: if you have a dynamic ips is possible no?
* [12:46] Soft Linden: Let's do "Contact support" and see if they can walk through the normal network diagnostic stuff. If they can't, they should escalate it to engineering
* [12:46] Harleen Gretzky: This was filed before teh viewer gave disconnect messages
* [12:47] Phantom Ninetails: A client side problem isn't the only cause of this though, sometimes it really is a crash, without the sim telling anyone it has crashed.
* [12:47] Soft Linden: Well, the most recent commets suggest that one person watched another person have this problem
* [12:47] Soft Linden: So shouldn't be a sim crash
* [12:48] Erinyse Planer: could be a load handler issue
* [12:48] Opensource Obscure: oh wait. i got this twice and the sim did NOT restart when it happened. other avatars had no problems in my case.
* [12:48] Soft Linden: Not sure. That missing cap and subsequent 404s in that bit of log are curious.
* [12:48] Yann Dufaux: soft, if he have other freidn with the same isp if possible :)
* [12:48] Erinyse Planer: soft dumb question?
* [12:48] Soft Linden: Anyway, contact support for now, can also suggest they mention this JIRA if support can't find anything. Then they ought to know to link it up when they escalate.
* [12:48] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: Soft, could I bring up a bug that I've been noticing a lot lately? I'm not sure if there's a JIRA for it yet. If not, I'll create one.
* [12:49] Soft Linden: All questions are dumb questions! Obey soft without challenge!
* [12:49] Erinyse Planer: ...
* [12:49] Moon Metty: O_O
* [12:49] Alexa Linden: lol
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Seb - best to get it on the agenda
* [12:49] Imaze Rhiano: oookay
* [12:49] Phantom Ninetails: lol
* [12:49] Alexa Linden: runs
* [12:49] Samantha Poindexter: giggles.
* [12:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm bigger than you :o
* [12:49] Soft Linden: For next week if it's not super urgent
* [12:49] Soft Linden: Yeah, but I'm rabbitier.
* [12:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: Pffft
* [12:49] Erinyse Planer: soft.. is it posisble to see where though LL's servers your account is handeled?
* [12:50] Soft Linden: Where through LL's servers?
* [12:50] Erinyse Planer: like which inventory server, which load handler etc your specific account is handled
* [12:50] Soft Linden: There are about 18 server types involved in a session. Not one location.
* [12:50] Morgaine Dinova: tries to find the right parser
* [12:50] Soft Linden: SVC-4537[c
* [12:50] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4537: 
* [#SVC-4537] scripts are: dead from overloading
* [12:51] Phantom Ninetails: It'd be nice if we could just teleport somewhere else when a region crashes. Without logging in again. Without losing group chat.
* [12:51] WolfPup Lowenhar: soft wouldn't all the data for one av end up going through on server from all the others though?
* [12:51] Erinyse Planer: right. but of those 18 types most have multiple instances? i mean is it possible to tell which server out of each of these 18 types is being handled to better see if something might be one server ?
* [12:51] Soft Linden: They should contact support for this.
* [12:51] Soft Linden: Oh, Sandbox Cordova
* [12:52] Moon Metty: high sim time ... it's not only scripts
* [12:52] Soft Linden: Erinyse - not really. The current simulator is really the only thing that's visible to the client that persists.
* [12:52] Imaze Rhiano: or maybe they all have 256 script resizers in their hairs :P
* [12:52] Erinyse Planer: well i did say dumb question. *shuts up*
* [12:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hehe
* [12:53] Alexa Linden: lol Imaze
* [12:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: Don't get me started Imaze ;)
* [12:53] Phantom Ninetails: Looks like that one is an abuse report filed on the jira, hm
* [12:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: SVC-2885
* [12:53] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2885: 
* [#SVC-2885] and llGetObjectScale: 
* [12:53] Soft Linden: Except for the inventory server, most of the rest are used round robin. And yeah, there's more than one of most of those 18ish server types.
* [12:53] Latif Khalifa: SVC-2885 ++
* [12:53] Sebastean Steamweaver: (Just kidding - not meaning to distract lol)
* [12:53] Yann Dufaux: no clear reprod and no information system?
* [12:53] Squirrel Wood: feature request...
* [12:54] Soft Linden: Anyway - SVC-4537 - can just close that. They ought to contact support or file an AR when it happens. And down the line a little bit, we'll have script limits.
* [12:54] Alexa Linden: ok
* [12:54] Morgaine Dinova: Soft: well that needs to be changed. The sim acting as proxy for everything is a problem for scalability and for reliability, as in this case. A region going down shouldn't impact on all the grid services you use.
* [12:54] Phantom Ninetails: Yes, like I said.. It'd be nice if we could just teleport somewhere else when a region crashes. Without logging in again. Without losing group chat.
* [12:54] Soft Linden: Yeah. In the future, more of that will be split out.
* [12:54] Morgaine Dinova: nods
* [12:54] Soft Linden: But it's not where the key scaling problems are right now.
* [12:55] Soft Linden: VWR-10456[c
* [12:55] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10456: 
* [#VWR-10456] Crashes on: Mac Workbook Pro for Hi-Res Snapshots, Unable to reset preferences to low res
* [12:55] Erinyse Planer: I kinda agree morgaine, but in LL's defense, much as it pains me to say those words, thats a HUGE switchover
* [12:55] Soft Linden: So yeah - right now, huge snapshots are a no-go on Mac. That needs to be fixed.
* [12:55] Yann Dufaux: oh this bugs affect snowglobe to ..
* [12:56] Morgaine Dinova: Aye, this was to address Phantom's point about relog being needed when a region collapses. It shouldn't be needed to lose all your IM sessions etc.
* [12:56] Soft Linden: Not being able to set it back to small snapshots is a problem though...
* [12:56] Soft Linden: Hrm.
* [12:56] Erinyse Planer: i dont have a mac, but still hesitantly say import
* [12:56] Morgaine Dinova: OGP will sort that out, hopefully. In (looooong) time.
* [12:56] Soft Linden: I think there's really nothing to fix here other than the core problem with high res snapshots.
* [12:57] Soft Linden: I don't think we want to add UI widgetry to work around that bug or anything.
* [12:57] Erinyse Planer: but the switchback?
* [12:57] Soft Linden: Would be helpful to tell them what preference they can change without opening the snapshot floater...
* [12:57] Soft Linden: Can do it via debug settings, but what's the option?
* [12:58] Yann Dufaux: hmm
* [12:58] Erinyse Planer: doesnt see anything obvious....
* [12:59] Samantha Poindexter: SnapshotLocalLastResolution , SnapshotPostcardLastResolution , and SnapshotTextureLastResolution ?
* [12:59] Soft Linden: Should be an option to set it back to 'Current window' for size
* [13:00] Soft Linden: We're out of time on the triage, but I'm going to keep looking a moment, see if I can find the setting name in source
* [13:00] Squirrel Wood: - Offset Bug Video Showcase (not jirafied yet - anyone know of an existing jira issue?) - watch after triage!
* [13:00] Samantha Poindexter: Alternately, LastSnapshotHeight and LastSnapshotWidth
* [13:00] Latif Khalifa: is it from Advanced meni, high-res snaps to disk?
* [13:00] Darv Linden: Latif - Nope, not that one
* [13:00] Latif Khalifa: or the snapshot floater
* [13:00] Latif Khalifa: ah
* [13:00] Darv Linden: LastSnapshotToDiskHeight ?