German Mentors/2008 07 17 Transcript

== Summary ==
#Volunteers gotta be nice DAMN IT
#OI should be linear with the opportunity to exit any time.
#New Residents need a reason to stay in (and learn about) SL. A goal or something attractive.
#:Provide a reason why Residents should stay and they'll invest time on learning.
#Opinion
#:Blue: Showing new Residents the "real" SL is more important then protecting from griefers.
#:Lexie: More then OI experience but less than a combat zone too.... 
#Don't make SL look like a game
#Connect learning with specific examples. Like: "Going to a club" with "how to change clothes", "how to sit", "how to dance"...
#Introduce on how to use the search
#Show that not everything is interactive in SL
== List of Attendees ==
*Alexa Soyer
*Amber Linden
*Blue Linden
*fr43k Paine
*George Linden
*Keumjoo Ahn
*Kuraiko Yoshikawa
*Lexie Linden
*Lisa Lowe
*Mia Linden
*Monalisa Robbiani
*Neovo Geesink
*Torben Trautman
*Zai Lynch
== Transcript ==
*[10:01 SLT] Blue Linden: hi :)
*[10:01 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: hi blue
*[10:01 SLT] Kuraiko Yoshikawa: hi blue
*[10:01 SLT] Alexa Soyer: heya Blue :)
*[10:01 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn faints.
*[10:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: woot!
*[10:01 SLT] Blue Linden: lol
*[10:02 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: *faints*
*[10:02 SLT] Blue Linden: good morning/evening everyone :)
*[10:02 SLT] Zai Lynch: good morning blue. oh yay, mia!!
*[10:02 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: hehe
*[10:02 SLT] Torben Trautman: hi there blue
*[10:02 SLT] Mia Linden: Morning all!
*[10:02 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: *faints*
*[10:02 SLT] Torben Trautman: Hi Mia
*[10:02 SLT] Alexa Soyer: woot?
*[10:02 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Oh hi Mia :)
*[10:02 SLT] Kuraiko Yoshikawa: hi mia
*[10:02 SLT] Blue Linden: how is everyone ?
*[10:03 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: oh all the invisible ones
*[10:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: great ^^
*[10:03 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: hi mia
*[10:03 SLT] Alexa Soyer: And Hi Lexie. :)
*[10:03 SLT] Lexie Linden: Hi!
*[10:03 SLT] Torben Trautman: Hi Lexie
*[10:03 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: wow:)
*[10:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: oh heyas lexie. and amber. woah...
*[10:03 SLT] Zai Lynch: we almost got more lindens then german mentors ^^
*[10:03 SLT] Lexie Linden: lol
*[10:03 SLT] Blue Linden: haha
*[10:03 SLT] Amber Linden: lol
*[10:03 SLT] Alexa Soyer: omg rofl I love your case Blue and the way you hold it.
*[10:03 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: trying to get voice to work
*[10:03 SLT] Blue Linden: ty :) I keep my Salmon in there
*[10:03 SLT] Blue Linden: mmmmm
*[10:04 SLT] Torben Trautman: Hey George
*[10:04 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol
*[10:04 SLT] George Linden: Heya :) rezzin
*[10:04 SLT] Zai Lynch: yay =)
*[10:04 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: OMG! more L than mentors
*[10:04 SLT] Torben Trautman: wow the Lindens surrounded us
*[10:04 SLT] Kuraiko Yoshikawa: hi george
*[10:04 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Hi Amber, hi George :)
*[10:04 SLT] Torben Trautman: rofl
*[10:04 SLT] Amber Linden waves
*[10:04 SLT] Zai Lynch hides
*[10:04 SLT] Alexa Soyer: I kinda feel important now. lol
*[10:04 SLT] Lexie Linden: : ))
*[10:04 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe :)
*[10:04 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: *faints*
*[10:04 SLT] Amber Linden: naa.... Mentors/Vteam go together!
*[10:05 SLT] Blue Linden: how many mentors are we expecting?
*[10:05 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'm not sure if more will come then who are here already. so we'll be a small group with big impact =)
*[10:06 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: unfortunatley we lost many members of our gruops
*[10:06 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe okay.....well we can wait another couple of minutes to make sure anyone who wants to come is here
*[10:06 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: (damed if my voice could work now.. please?)
*[10:06 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Do we need voice?
*[10:07 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn: no?
*[10:07 SLT] Blue Linden: oh....I was planning on doing text
*[10:07 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: ok great
*[10:07 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani has no connection to voice server tonight
*[10:07 SLT] Blue Linden: too early here for voice...you'd only hear me yawning
*[10:07 SLT] Zai Lynch: i think text is fine =) and first of all i'd like to say a big THANK YOU for comin
*[10:07 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: lol
*[10:07 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Well I don't mind. But probaly my written english is a bit better than the spoken english.^^
*[10:07 SLT] Torben Trautman: hehe
*[10:07 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: sorry blue:)
*[10:07 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol Blue
*[10:07 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe kidding (mostly)
*[10:08 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: I see myself sitting at 0.0.0 could someone TP me please?
*[10:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: heyas fr43k =)
*[10:08 SLT] fr43k Paine: Hey :)
*[10:08 SLT] Alexa Soyer: You are fine for me mona. Try pressing esc. It might work.
*[10:08 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: TY
*[10:08 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn: ^^
*[10:08 SLT] Alexa Soyer: heya fr34k :)
*[10:08 SLT] Blue Linden: hi fr43k :)
*[10:08 SLT] fr43k Paine: Greetings Blue :)
*[10:08 SLT] Blue Linden: well, let's get started.....
*[10:08 SLT] Zai Lynch: so i think we got most of the active ones around us atm so we might start the meeting =)
*[10:09 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss
*[10:09 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: someone just god tped me
*[10:09 SLT] Blue Linden: first off, thanks for helping people in SL!
*[10:09 SLT] Lexie Linden: woot!
*[10:09 SLT] Blue Linden: of course, helping people up SL's learning cliff is something people never forget :)
*[10:09 SLT] Blue Linden: I still talk to the people who helped me on my first day in SL back in 2003
*[10:10 SLT] Blue Linden: and also, thanks for helping german speakers in SL, because LL isn't exactly set up to help people in every language lol
*[10:10 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: not yet
*[10:10 SLT] Blue Linden: it's a big task and we certainly couldn't do it without your help....so you're helping more than just the newbies :)
*[10:10 SLT] Torben Trautman: yay
*[10:10 SLT] Zai Lynch: woot!
*[10:11 SLT] Blue Linden: So I thought that what we could do to day is to informally talk about best practices
*[10:11 SLT] Blue Linden: The VTeam and LL has had a certain amount of experience working with groups of helpful people and know something work and some don't ;)
*[10:12 SLT] Blue Linden: I'll assume everyone here is part of the mento program??
*[10:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss
*[10:12 SLT] Torben Trautman nods
*[10:12 SLT] fr43k Paine: /nods too
*[10:12 SLT] fr43k Paine: ^^
*[10:12 SLT] George Linden: (wewt)
*[10:12 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn nods
*[10:12 SLT] Blue Linden: okay, hard for me to keep up with names when we've got almost 4000 mentors hehe
*[10:12 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: I think so too
*[10:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:12 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: I think everyone here is
*[10:13 SLT] Blue Linden: I think that in working with a group of any size it's important to have a mission statement and a set of Best Practices for the group
*[10:13 SLT] Blue Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Tao_of_Volunteers
*[10:14 SLT] Blue Linden: for Mentors, as you know, it's the Tao
*[10:15 SLT] Blue Linden: helping people is obviously the mission, but for you guys, it's a bit more specific in that you're helping german-speakers in a primarily english language environment
*[10:15 SLT] Blue Linden: although I think we have most of the UI translated by now, don't we?
*[10:16 SLT] Blue Linden: I know some of it is at least hehe
*[10:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss, but it's embrassing at times. but jira is helping to fix it
*[10:16 SLT] Blue Linden: oh really :O
*[10:16 SLT] Blue Linden: bad german?
*[10:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: well, synonyms. and the wrong ones. but it's gettin way better. Zi Ree fixed a lot
*[10:16 SLT] Blue Linden: ah...I see
*[10:16 SLT] George Linden: cool cool
*[10:17 SLT] Blue Linden: yeah, localizing the client is a LOT of work....
*[10:17 SLT] Blue Linden: It doesn't help that we keep changing it ;p
*[10:17 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:18 SLT] Blue Linden: So basically the Tao and any set of community guidelines for a group can be seen as The Law
*[10:18 SLT] Blue Linden: and the mission statement is the Heart
*[10:18 SLT] Blue Linden: for the most part, the law of the Tao is BE NICE DAMNIT!
*[10:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: lol
*[10:18 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn giggles.
*[10:19 SLT] Blue Linden: but of course people get frustrated or angry, or don't have enough coffee in the morning and they stop being nice
*[10:19 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol
*[10:19 SLT] George Linden: me? never. >.>
*[10:19 SLT] Blue Linden: that's usually the biggest challenge for any group....
*[10:19 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe
*[10:19 SLT] Alexa Soyer is nice without coffee.^^
*[10:19 SLT] Torben Trautman: hehe I always got some instant coffee in reach
*[10:19 SLT] Blue Linden: achieving the group mission is often a lot easier than following the rules hehe
*[10:20 SLT] Blue Linden: most mentors were out helping people before being part of the group
*[10:21 SLT] Blue Linden: so problems in mentors tend to be predictable....people getting angry with each other, not following the guidelines set to keep everyone together...
*[10:21 SLT] Blue Linden: problems that any community face
*[10:22 SLT] Blue Linden: so our solution tends to be to repeatedly affirm the guidelines and insist on respectful treatment of fellow mentors
*[10:22 SLT] Blue Linden: which can require a bit of cheerleading
*[10:22 SLT] Blue Linden: and reminding people that we're all on the same side hehe
*[10:23 SLT] Blue Linden: so of course all of that is the starting point for any group with a mission to help others
*[10:23 SLT] Blue Linden: and that's where the groups start to differ, and encounter specific problems other groups might not have
*[10:24 SLT] Blue Linden: so let's talk about things you guy have experienced.....hopefully VTeam will have some similar experiences and we can learn from each other :)
*[10:24 SLT] Blue Linden: a good place to start, I think would be the new user spaces
*[10:24 SLT] Blue Linden: where do new german users end up?
*[10:25 SLT] Blue Linden: currently it's the default LL Orientation Island isn't' it?
*[10:25 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: yes
*[10:25 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss...
*[10:25 SLT] Blue Linden: that's less than optimal ;p
*[10:25 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:25 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: and even with the transladted hud, many cannot manage the course, cannot speak to fellow newbies and so on
*[10:25 SLT] Blue Linden: oh yeah....I can imagine
*[10:26 SLT] Blue Linden: so hopefully a more specific german OI will help
*[10:26 SLT] Zai Lynch nods
*[10:26 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: that was the plan:)
*[10:26 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn agrees
*[10:26 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: there are many questions
*[10:26 SLT] Blue Linden: *nods
*[10:26 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: before we even start anything
*[10:26 SLT] Blue Linden: well, what are some of the questions
*[10:27 SLT] Blue Linden: (and I'm going to sit so I don't get tired!)
*[10:27 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: first of all, how many people are we talking about? how many ghermanspeakers are being born a day?
*[10:27 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: and how many of them would prefer a non english environment?
*[10:27 SLT] Zai Lynch: beeing born a day and do chose to NOT start at a CG
*[10:27 SLT] Blue Linden: that's a good question
*[10:27 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: indeed
*[10:28 SLT] Blue Linden: i think it's safe to say that most people would prefer a native-language introduction to SL
*[10:28 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: probably, I certainly wouldnt:) but most probably do
*[10:28 SLT] Blue Linden: but I don't know exactly how many german speakers come into SL per day.....it varies
*[10:28 SLT] Zai Lynch: who would be the right linden to ask for that? maybe meta linden?
*[10:28 SLT] Torben Trautman: it might be somehow equal with the percentage of german speaking residents?
*[10:29 SLT] Blue Linden: I am trying to find that info now.....I'll do that in the background
*[10:29 SLT] Blue Linden: and let you know if I find it
*[10:29 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah kewlz =)
*[10:29 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: danziel is on
*[10:29 SLT] George Linden: would the number affect plans going forward or is this a question of curiosity? just askin'.. out of curiosity XD
*[10:29 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: the number would effect design plans of course
*[10:30 SLT] Blue Linden: I don't think so.....what would most affect any test is the effect, which is likely measured in Percentages
*[10:30 SLT] Zai Lynch: so another question we had way in the beginning, do we prefer a linear or non-linear OI. and we decided on a non-linear one by now... do you think it was the right decision?
*[10:30 SLT] Blue Linden: but I'll have to leave most of the specifics related to the test up to Jean.....
*[10:30 SLT] Blue Linden: rather I think we should focus here on actually working with new residents, which is something VTeam knows a lot about :)
*[10:31 SLT] Blue Linden: or about how OIs work in general, which is another thing we have experience with lol
*[10:31 SLT] George Linden: brb
*[10:31 SLT] Blue Linden: linear or non-linear is an interesting question
*[10:31 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Mona did you try to tp him?
*[10:31 SLT] Blue Linden: there's no set answer to that.....different people learn in different ways
*[10:32 SLT] Blue Linden: and for some, Linear is much easier
*[10:32 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: another question is about OI style. do scripted orientations with game like structures work better than self guided OIs, like the HI is based on for ecample
*[10:32 SLT] Blue Linden: personally I would argue that more people learn faster from a directed, linear experience with visuals
*[10:32 SLT] Lexie Linden: Agreed Blue
*[10:32 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: I tend to agree
*[10:32 SLT] fr43k Paine: true, we use that at NCI
*[10:32 SLT] Kuraiko Yoshikawa gave you Snapshot_098a.
*[10:32 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: just fence the course and DONT LET THEM OUT!!
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: well, again, different people, different needs......one of the things we learned in studying the new OI is that a large number of people didn't want to be there at all
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: lol Monalisa
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: Here's one of the biggest problems with OIs.....
*[10:33 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: I left OI after 2 mins *grins*
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: people will spend a lot of time and money to learn to drive a car
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: because they know WHY they should learn
*[10:33 SLT] Blue Linden: but most people don't know why they should learn SL....
*[10:33 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: because I THOUGHT "oh I know all of that", which wasnt really the case;)
*[10:34 SLT] Blue Linden: so they don't want to spend the time to do it until they know there is value in SL
*[10:34 SLT] Blue Linden: they don't want to be forced to go through a long OI and will just leave, never to return
*[10:34 SLT] Blue Linden: so trapping them there is bad lol
*[10:34 SLT] Zai Lynch: so this is the reason for the current A/B testing and the client side tutorial, i guess...
*[10:34 SLT] Alexa Soyer: I spent a lot of time on my OI and was well prepared for "real SL life" after leaving. I was such a pro. rofl
*[10:34 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Yeah..I'm a nerd....
*[10:35 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe, well did you know ahead of time why you wanted to be in SL Alexa?
*[10:35 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Nope, I didn't even had an idea of what is possible.^^
*[10:35 SLT] Blue Linden: ah....so you were very patient then lol
*[10:35 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Not my nature at all. lol But it seems I was.^^
*[10:36 SLT] Zai Lynch: so maybe we can make an OI where it is possible to leave early if they want to skip the tutorials(?)
*[10:36 SLT] Blue Linden: if you've spent time on the OIs you probably hear people asking "what do you do here?"
*[10:36 SLT] Blue Linden: the most common question
*[10:36 SLT] Blue Linden: yes Zai, I think that being able to skip any or all of the tutorials is VERY important
*[10:36 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: and some think its a poorely made "game" and they leave after the second fat statue telling htem to hoola:)
*[10:37 SLT] Blue Linden: getting people to a point where they find something of value is really the best way to help them....
*[10:37 SLT] Blue Linden: once they understand WHY they want to learn, they're do what it takes
*[10:37 SLT] Blue Linden: right now, LL does a pretty poor job at this ;p
*[10:37 SLT] Blue Linden: we've always focused on HOW and not WHY
*[10:37 SLT] Alexa Soyer: I loved the ball I was able to move around.^^
*[10:37 SLT] Blue Linden: lol really?
*[10:38 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol yes
*[10:38 SLT] Torben Trautman: yeah that was cool
*[10:38 SLT] Blue Linden: that's my last favorite part because you almost never use that skill in SL xD
*[10:38 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn loved the speaking parrot :D
*[10:38 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:38 SLT] Blue Linden: I mean it's kind of fun, but not critical
*[10:38 SLT] Alexa Soyer: True Blue but it was interactive.^^
*[10:38 SLT] Lisa Lowe: hiya.....(sorry for bumping in)
*[10:38 SLT] Blue Linden: interactive is good.....as you might've noticed, people don't bother reading anything lol
*[10:39 SLT] Lexie Linden: lol
*[10:39 SLT] Alexa Soyer nods.
*[10:39 SLT] Zai Lynch: so do you think, having them in a "real" SL® environment is more important then protecting them from griefers?
*[10:39 SLT] Blue Linden: so visual learning, and interactive learning can be more effective than notecards
*[10:39 SLT] Blue Linden: personally I do Zai
*[10:39 SLT] Alexa Soyer: I totally agree.
*[10:39 SLT] Blue Linden: although we don't have a lot of data on that yet
*[10:40 SLT] Blue Linden: but Jaime and I were working on testing a plan to move people right into SL without an OI
*[10:40 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: CGs are a "real" environment, and the effects are not always positive. in berlin for example voice chat is banned permanently because of constant verbal abuse against newbies.
*[10:40 SLT] Blue Linden: if you go to Help > Tutorial you can see the first part of that test
*[10:40 SLT] Blue Linden: portable web-based tutorials you can't detatch and lose hehe
*[10:40 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Wow... Isnt that a Bit overwhelming for the new residents??
*[10:40 SLT] Blue Linden: well it depends on the CG Monalisa....
*[10:40 SLT] Blue Linden: there is a difference between learning and doing
*[10:41 SLT] Blue Linden: I know someone with 2 masters degrees in education but has never taught :(
*[10:41 SLT] Lexie Linden: I agree it needs to be more than an OI experience but less than a combat zone too....
*[10:41 SLT] Blue Linden: she's a great student, and a great learner....
*[10:41 SLT] Lexie Linden: Some where in the middle..
*[10:41 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: lol
*[10:41 SLT] Blue Linden: but school and work are two different things
*[10:41 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:41 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Someone had the idea to make OIs something like a tutorial with quests like in other games. It's something they already know and in my opinion I think they are willing to learn more this way.
*[10:41 SLT] Blue Linden: similarly, learning SL on an OI and being in SL are two different things
*[10:42 SLT] Lexie Linden: right
*[10:42 SLT] Blue Linden: some of the CGs are very different as well....but I'm not familiar with the german CG where voice is not allowed
*[10:42 SLT] Blue Linden: I haven't been there
*[10:42 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: its like a dance club:))
*[10:42 SLT] Zai Lynch: i'm not sure if the game thing is good. people will tend to think that SL® is a game... some do it even on the current OIs... bump rats and stuff
*[10:42 SLT] Lexie Linden: True Zai
*[10:42 SLT] Blue Linden: so again, important to remember that some people will want to go looking for the answer to WHY SL? before learning much at all
*[10:43 SLT] Blue Linden: so teaching them to Search and use the camera are pretty critical
*[10:43 SLT] Blue Linden: lol
*[10:43 SLT] George Linden: That would be a benefit Alexa, but it would address really one persona: new residents who have played other MMORPGs. For residents without that perspective, they may get stuck with the same questions other new residents have when they arrive: is this what SL is, really??
*[10:43 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Indeed... Saw it today more often on OI's that they openly speaked of "This game"
*[10:43 SLT] Lexie Linden: So..show them the why in an interactive way
*[10:43 SLT] fr43k Paine: Would it be possible to make it like a game and every time they do something right, they get some L$? It's like getting a positive response for something you did and usually it helps people to remember things if it was or if they associate a positive vent with it
*[10:43 SLT] Blue Linden: yeah, when in SL do you have to run over rats? It's like the beach ball.....it represents an aspect of SL....but it's not SL
*[10:43 SLT] fr43k Paine: event*
*[10:43 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: tell them the goal is to shoot with the pumpgun and try to hit players called LINDEN:)
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: well....that's possible Fr43k....although people WILL game the system if you offer L$
*[10:44 SLT] George Linden: oh snap, mona!
*[10:44 SLT] Lexie Linden: lol
*[10:44 SLT] fr43k Paine: lmao
*[10:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: they'll send through an army of bots
*[10:44 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol Mona
*[10:44 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn rubs her knuckles and giggles.
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: haha
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: the griefer OI
*[10:44 SLT] Lexie Linden: I always thought the rats were a mild form of griefer awareness : )
*[10:44 SLT] Lexie Linden: lol
*[10:44 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: the end boss is called, umm, philip, no wait..
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: station 1.....particle spam
*[10:44 SLT] Lexie Linden: j/k!
*[10:44 SLT] Blue Linden: haha
*[10:45 SLT] fr43k Paine: Ah, right Blue...there will be people trying to abuse it... :/
*[10:45 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Nah, well I thought of something like...go over there right click the box and press open and you'll get a nice pair of shoes or soomething like that. Just to show them the how in a playful way.
*[10:45 SLT] Blue Linden: so one of the most important things we've learned in looking at the OIs in the past year is Different People = Different needs
*[10:45 SLT] Neovo Geesink: I have seen that on the Mentverse OI's... (Scholar)
*[10:45 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Not the shoot this and that and dunno what things.
*[10:45 SLT] Blue Linden: one size fits all doesn't fit most people
*[10:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: hmm.. but we can't really select before we know what they like...
*[10:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: we could try to select by the default ava they choose...
*[10:46 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe, that would be an interesting experiment :D
*[10:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: but the german website doesn't even offer the possibility to choose from the default avas ^^
*[10:46 SLT] Alexa Soyer: indeed^^
*[10:46 SLT] Blue Linden: oh really
*[10:46 SLT] fr43k Paine: Yea something like that Alexa...and after you got the new clothes, you reach a new point where you're told how to change clothes and there you get a new skin or shape which leads you to the next step...
*[10:46 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Hmmm.... Looks inpossible to link an Avatar choice to the further needs.... (Except Gender)
*[10:47 SLT] Zai Lynch: you provide your birthday, choose a name, provide the mail... and you're ready
*[10:47 SLT] Blue Linden: well remember that the first thing most newbies will want is to answer the question "Why?"
*[10:47 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Yup something like that fr34k.
*[10:47 SLT] Blue Linden: Why go any further
*[10:47 SLT] Blue Linden: Why invest time in SL
*[10:47 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Yeah, they are searching for a goal.
*[10:47 SLT] Blue Linden: LL is only just starting to find ways to address those questions
*[10:48 SLT] Blue Linden: it used to be that people who came to SL were nerdy, early adopters like me :D
*[10:48 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: how about some sort of a portal like yahoo was in the first years of the web?
*[10:48 SLT] fr43k Paine: TRue, we had a lot of newbies asking us what's to do here
*[10:48 SLT] Blue Linden: we already knew why....BECAUSE THIS IS COOOOOL
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: but now, most people coming to SL are non-nerdy and sometimes hesitant to try new things or not big on technology
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: but they saw a news story or read an article and are curious
*[10:49 SLT] Alexa Soyer: yup yup
*[10:49 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: the "showcase" (or soemting more sophisticated - a tagging system for example) should be part of the OI process.
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: oh....and yeah when they ask "what can I do here"....
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: the answer is often "anything you want!!"
*[10:49 SLT] George Linden: "anything you want!" wahwah
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: because that's part of the appeal for us
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: but we already get it hehe
*[10:49 SLT] Zai Lynch: gotta provide examples... i guess
*[10:49 SLT] Blue Linden: for them, that answer is no help at all
*[10:50 SLT] Blue Linden: yeah
*[10:50 SLT] Lexie Linden: right
*[10:50 SLT] Blue Linden: if they like music the answer might be "you can see live bands and DJs here!"
*[10:50 SLT] Blue Linden: or if they like sci-fi movies the answer might be "you can join a star wars group!"
*[10:51 SLT] Torben Trautman: I usually ask them "What would you like to do?"
*[10:51 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: so the answer would be indeed a portal like solution
*[10:51 SLT] Blue Linden: very hard to come up with one orientation experience that would anser "what do I do" for everyone who comes through
*[10:51 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: conencted to the web
*[10:51 SLT] George Linden: asking about hobbies/professions can help you help them find communities/events X)
*[10:51 SLT] Blue Linden: so yeah, providing a few examples and showing how to use Search is a good start
*[10:51 SLT] Blue Linden: and learning more about them is good too....
*[10:51 SLT] Zai Lynch: so we could let them arrive in some kind of hall with pictures of SL® cenarios / communities with short explanations prior to the "run" through a learning playground...
*[10:51 SLT] Blue Linden: but of course there are more of them than there are of us hehe
*[10:52 SLT] Blue Linden: so you can't always help everyone 1 on 1
*[10:52 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Well, I keep reading questions on OI's like "how do we get further", "How do we leave this island"...
*[10:52 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn likes the picture hall idea aloooot
*[10:52 SLT] Blue Linden: yeas Neovo, definitely haha
*[10:52 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[10:52 SLT] Blue Linden: there will be a number of people that don't WANT your help
*[10:52 SLT] Lisa Lowe: A big panel showing what they all can do in SL :)
*[10:52 SLT] Blue Linden: some are busy with the tutorials....some thing you are a bot....some thing you are a salesperson
*[10:52 SLT] Blue Linden: *think
*[10:53 SLT] Neovo Geesink: I think that there are numereous people (Alts?) that wont even do the Tutorials...
*[10:53 SLT] fr43k Paine: So, if people would tp in the first time, there could be some pop up window telling them that SL is a community where you can socialize, build, buy, find new friends etc. So their first question might be answered. Additionally there should be a note that it wil lhelp them to take a look aroudn first at the OI to learn how to interact here. Then they are free to chose if they want to run through the (linear) OI or leave with the next TP somewhere else.
*[10:53 SLT] Torben Trautman: hehe one asked me if I owned Second Life once... was hard to resist rofl
*[10:53 SLT] Blue Linden: yep, some are alts :)
*[10:53 SLT] Blue Linden: haha Torben, that's great :)
*[10:53 SLT] Alexa Soyer: lol Torben
*[10:53 SLT] Blue Linden: That's not a bad first message Fr43k :)
*[10:54 SLT] fr43k Paine: Just try to recall what I wanted to know, when I was new
*[10:54 SLT] fr43k Paine: Thanks :)
*[10:54 SLT] Blue Linden: one of the things that's interesting to me is that everyone in SL knows what helped them.....
*[10:54 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: other people did for me
*[10:54 SLT] Blue Linden: so there are as many ideas about the "perfect OI" as there are residents
*[10:54 SLT] Blue Linden: but there is no perfect OI
*[10:54 SLT] Blue Linden: there are only perfect OIs
*[10:54 SLT] Zai Lynch: lum did to me... so we need a lum for everyone ^^
*[10:55 SLT] Lexie Linden: Its not a bad idea to use pictures to let them know what they can do in SL..and maybe even tie in what skills they would want to learn/practive before going to that specific place. Such as: A club ..change clothes..learn to chat and IM..learn to sit...learn to use an animation
*[10:55 SLT] Alexa Soyer: I'm a self-taught girl.
*[10:55 SLT] Lexie Linden: That type thing..Lead to the learning
*[10:55 SLT] Blue Linden: it's always about different people having different needs, so the more you focus and specialize, the more people you exclude
*[10:55 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Thinking of the MDstyle here....
*[10:55 SLT] Zai Lynch takes notes
*[10:55 SLT] Amber Linden: (teach them to used Search ...)
*[10:55 SLT] Blue Linden: but at the same time, one-size-fits-all only helps some
*[10:55 SLT] fr43k Paine: I just met random people and stood with a guy who tought me how to build and introduced me into the Art in SL...the rest was learning by doing
*[10:56 SLT] Blue Linden: having a general introduction that lets individuals quickly find their own focus is a big help
*[10:56 SLT] George Linden: (tiny tip, something I'd like to see on LL's OIs and would be great for yours - a sign letting residents know that not EVERYTHING is interactive)
*[10:56 SLT] Lisa Lowe: They should enter in a big area showing lots about the possiblities in SL and instruction how to do things.
*[10:56 SLT] George Linden: (the disappointment in the search dome of, "i'm clicking on the shovel but I can't get myself to dig!" has got to be confusing.)
*[10:56 SLT] Blue Linden: I think that's important too Lisa....
*[10:57 SLT] Lisa Lowe: everyone can choose then what they do first
*[10:57 SLT] Blue Linden: well, it's coming up on 11 and I have to go to another meeting >_>
*[10:57 SLT] Lisa Lowe: figure out how to do it or just tp out and explore
*[10:57 SLT] Blue Linden: no rest for giant green businessmonsters
*[10:57 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[10:57 SLT] George Linden: X)
*[10:57 SLT] Blue Linden: but thanks for organizing this Zai :)
*[10:57 SLT] Zai Lynch: thank you very very much for droppin by! has been a huge help!
*[10:57 SLT] fr43k Paine: Are we free to ask any questions (as long as it belongs to the german OI sims?)
*[10:57 SLT] George Linden: Yes, thanks!!
*[10:57 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn claps: yeay
*[10:58 SLT] Blue Linden: VTeam is always around if you have questions, of course
*[10:58 SLT] Amber Linden: :))
*[10:58 SLT] Lexie Linden: : ))
*[10:58 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Ok
*[10:58 SLT] Blue Linden: and I have an office hour where I talk about new user stuff a lot.......but you'd need to stay up a bit late >_>
*[10:58 SLT] fr43k Paine: True
*[10:58 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[10:58 SLT] fr43k Paine: but we had a couple of questions
*[10:58 SLT] fr43k Paine: and it would be great if we could sort them out for now
*[10:59 SLT] Zai Lynch: we could write em down and send an email(?)
*[10:59 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: 2 AM o.O
*[10:59 SLT] Blue Linden: well sure, drop em on a notecard for me
*[10:59 SLT] fr43k Paine: We still have the notecards Zai
*[10:59 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Or drop it in the Suggestion Box at SLVEC?
*[10:59 SLT] Blue Linden: I'm sorry I don't have more time this morning to hang around :\\
*[10:59 SLT] fr43k Paine: okay Blue :)
*[10:59 SLT] Torben Trautman: thanks for being here Blue :)
*[11:00 SLT] Blue Linden: well if they are about volunteer stuff, you can ask any of the VTeam
*[11:00 SLT] Alexa Soyer: Thanks Blue. .)
*[11:00 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: ok cool
*[11:00 SLT] Blue Linden: if they are about OIs, I've focused on that a bit in the past year
*[11:00 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: that gave a lot of food for thought
*[11:00 SLT] Mia Linden: smiles
*[11:00 SLT] Zai Lynch: ok, we'll sort and send :-)
*[11:00 SLT] Blue Linden: hehe, it's a never-ending topic :)
*[11:00 SLT] Blue Linden: i think everyone has a lot to learn about helping people in SL hehe
*[11:01 SLT] Blue Linden: especially LL ;)
*[11:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[11:01 SLT] Lisa Lowe: :)
*[11:01 SLT] fr43k Paine: *gg*
*[11:01 SLT] Blue Linden: okay take care all...thanks for the discussion, it's been fun!
*[11:01 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn: 알ㄴ
*[11:01 SLT] George Linden: Have a good oned!
*[11:01 SLT] Lisa Lowe: thanks Blue :)
*[11:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: cyas blue =)
*[11:01 SLT] George Linden: one*!
*[11:01 SLT] Neovo Geesink: Ok. Good day!
*[11:01 SLT] fr43k Paine: Thank you Blue, take care =)
*[11:01 SLT] Keumjoo Ahn: (wooopsie9 bye
*[11:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: woot!
*[11:01 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^_^
*[11:01 SLT] Mia Linden: bye all! so good to see you today!
*[11:02 SLT] Lexie Linden: Bye all : )
*[11:02 SLT] Monalisa Robbiani: bye all:)
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