Open Source Meeting/2009-03-05

== Agenda ==
No posted agenda.
== Transcript ==
* [14:02] Merov Linden: hey Rob
* [14:02] Rob Linden: hi folks....sorry I'm a little late
* [14:03] Squirrel Wood: No worries!
* [14:03] Rob Linden: doesn't appear anyone got anything on the agenda for this week
* [14:04] Rob Linden: what's up with you all?
* [14:05] Squirrel Wood: cursing at the asset server still for managing to lose some inventory of mine, yet insisting it is still there.
* [14:05] Rob Linden: hrm....that's not good
* [14:05] Squirrel Wood: basically Unable to create requested object. Object is missing from database.
* [14:06] Rob Linden: not something I'm in the position to help out with, but I"m assuming you're working other angles on that one
* [14:06] Rob Linden: how is everyone else?
* [14:06] Squirrel Wood: aye
* [14:07] Rob Linden: you all get a chance to meet with Merov before I got here?
* [14:07] Merov Linden: I gather that folks read my profile :)
* [14:07] Leaving god: mode, level 200
* [14:08] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:09] Rob Linden: For Merov's benefit...looks like we've got a crowd of the regulars here.
* [14:09] Merov Linden: was wondering
* [14:09] Rob Linden: Otaku and Atashi: I'm pretty sure I've seen you around, but I don't recall if you've spoken up much in the past
* [14:09] Aimee Trescothick: the regular suspects
* [14:09] Aimee Trescothick: pleads innocent this week
* [14:09] Atashi Toshihiko: I've been attending for about a month but I generally keep quiet -
* [14:09] Robin Cornelius: heh
* [14:10] Atashi Toshihiko: I'm still very early in the learning stages
* [14:10] Otaku Thor: we were here last month for a petition we gave to you
* [14:10] Robin Cornelius: i'm always quite as well
* [14:10] Robin Cornelius: *quiet
* [14:10] Rob Linden: Robin and Aimee both submit a lot of patches.
* [14:10] Merov Linden: Cool!
* [14:10] Rob Linden: Squirrel puts lots of random high prim count things in the meeting space ;-)
* [14:11] Robin Cornelius: I'm been debianizing the qt/webkit mozlib a little more
* [14:11] Rob Linden: Robin: excellent!
* [14:12] Robin Cornelius: it basicly works but we are lagging with out the patches that are scheduled for Qt 4.6
* [14:12] Robin Cornelius: the target observer
* [14:12] Rob Linden: I'm really glad that Benjamin's doing such a good job of getting that work upstream
* [14:13] Robin Cornelius: yea, thats working nicely
* [14:13] Robin Cornelius: qt seem receptive as well so thats very good
* [14:13] Robin Cornelius: mozilla was a brick wall from what Callum said in the past
* [14:14] Rob Linden: yeah, it's been pretty clear that the type of embedding we're doing has just not been a priority for them
* [14:15] Rob Linden: Mozilla's getting more serious about that sort of thing, but probably not as quickly as we'll need it
* [14:15] Squirrel Wood: At least they are moving there slowly
* [14:15] Robin Cornelius: just a shame the target observer is not running now or i would wholesale switch
* [14:15] Rob Linden: we'll get there soon
* [14:16] Rob Linden: that GL issue on the mailing list....
* [14:17] Rob Linden: It appears on the surface that there's something we've botched there, but I can't say for sure what's up with that
* [14:17] Robin Cornelius: tries to remember
* [14:17] Squirrel Wood: good thing the latest nvidia drivers have full opengl 3.0 support ^^
* [14:18] Rob Linden: I'm referring to the "Help with setting up Shadow Build" thread
* [14:19] Rob Linden: the theory is that we replaced the tarball in a non-kosher way
* [14:19] Robin Cornelius: Oh the md5 sums are out yea, saw that on #opensl too
* [14:19] Otaku Thor: wanted to add someting a little off topic - the 4freedom group is working on celebrating "Document Freedom Day" the 21st of this month - do to the true day is the 25 - everyone is invited
* [14:20] Robin Cornelius: Otaku, if you have some info textures please get them put up at my opensource expo in the opposite corner of Hippotropolis
* [14:20] Robin Cornelius: The curl gnutls thing is also what i was having an issue last week with, that came up in the week. Although why a omvviewer user is using curl-gnutls i'm not sure
* [14:20] Otaku Thor: ok
* [14:21] Robin Cornelius: (the self signed certs)
* [14:21] Rob Linden: oops...lost Aimee again
* [14:21] Soft Linden: (Checking something in the background here)
* [14:22] Squirrel Wood: I believe there was a security update for curl just this week
* [14:22] Squirrel Wood: yup. http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/133985
* [14:23] Rob Linden: yeah, we saw that. we don't *think* it's exploitable in our viewer, but if you figure out a way, file an issue to SEC
* [14:23] Rob Linden: we'll still be updating curl, though
* [14:23] Robin Cornelius: flaky shaky graphics card *sigh*
* [14:24] Squirrel Wood: yup. best not to leave such exploits open :)
* [14:24] Merov Linden: Tofu looked into that IIRC
* [14:24] Soft Linden: As our curl is built, it doesn't support the file: scheme at all
* [14:24] Soft Linden: Thankfully configuring it that way got us out of this one. Though various stand-alone builds may be affected.
* [14:24] Rob Linden: yup
* [14:25] Catharina Jacobus: hi all
* [14:25] Rob Linden: hi Catharina
* [14:25] Robin Cornelius: yea, i need a custom curl build for the c-ares non-blocking linkage but i will just re-build the offical debian version so the security will track that
* [14:26] Rob Linden: oh, right...it blocks by default, doesn't it?
* [14:26] Robin Cornelius: by default it uses libresolve
* [14:26] Rob Linden: as I recall, we discovered that the hard way in approximately the 1.13 timeframe
* [14:26] Robin Cornelius: which is blocking, c-ares provides non-blocking DNS, but curl must be build with --non-blocking AND linked againt openssl not gnutls
* [14:29] Rob Linden: looks like a slow news day here today
* [14:30] Soft Linden: For c-ares, we had a patch that fixed it for a few badly implemented nameservers in 2Wire DSL routers - I'm not totally sure that has been sent/accepted upstream yet.
* [14:30] Soft Linden: I'll ask about that. But without that, you may get some users having teleport nightmares if you go to a c-ares build.
* [14:30] Robin Cornelius: i think it might have been, i watch c-ares ML
* [14:30] Soft Linden: thumbsup
* [14:30] Robin Cornelius: but that also depends on what version debian has got
* [14:31] Robin Cornelius: c-ares also had ipv6 issues hence why debian did not use it for DNS
* [14:31] Soft Linden: You'll want to be sure you get it. It would affect an awful lot of AT&T customers. That's been their default DSL router for a couple years.
* [14:31] Soft Linden: ah
* [14:32] Sasuke Dragovar: i people
* [14:32] Sasuke's translator: the people
* [14:32] Otaku Thor: I am in process of getting ATT searvice currently
* [14:32] Soft Linden: Is internet2 using IPv6? Or is it publicly routed anywhere?
* [14:33] Rob Linden: internet2 is definitely using ipv6 (last I knew, which was years ago)...but I don't know about the public routing
* [14:33] Sasuke Dragovar: eh?
* [14:33] Sasuke's translator: eh?
* [14:33] Sasuke Dragovar: hey robin
* [14:33] Sasuke's translator: hey robin
* [14:33] Sasuke Dragovar: hi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
* [14:33] Sasuke's translator: hi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1
* [14:34] Rob Linden: Hi Sasuke....this is the open source meeting
* [14:34] Sasuke Dragovar: non ti ricordi di me
* [14:34] Sasuke's translator: do not you remember me
* [14:34] Rob Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting
* [14:34] Sasuke Dragovar: la riunione degli animali della foresta
* [14:34] Sasuke's translator: the meeting of the animals of the forest
* [14:34] Sasuke Dragovar: ahah
* [14:34] Sasuke's translator: ahah
* [14:35] Rob Linden: one thing I did want to mention: does the 1.20 protocol change affect any of you here?
* [14:35] Rob Linden: I imagine not, but just checking
* [14:35] Robin Cornelius: no, i track release and RCs, others like Henri already have patches in place
* [14:35] Squirrel Wood: in what way should it affect any of us ?
* [14:35] Sasuke Dragovar: hey rob non si capisce niente di quel che dici
* [14:35] Sasuke's translator: hey rob do not understand anything of what you say
* [14:35] Sasuke Dragovar: ahaha
* [14:35] Sasuke's translator: ahaha
* [14:36] Soft Linden: If you're using a 1.20 derivative, not having the patch would stop the viewer from working.
* [14:36] Robin Cornelius: Squirrel it only effects older viewers
* [14:36] Soft Linden: It likely won't be long before we turn off client-side LSL compilation as well. So 1.20 derivatives' days are still numbered. Just a minor stay of execution.
* [14:36] Squirrel Wood: older viewers? What's that? Something one would find in ancient tombs? ^^
* [14:36] Sasuke Dragovar: ma la riunione di che cosa robin?
* [14:36] Sasuke's translator: but it is the meeting of what robin?
* [14:37] Atashi Toshihiko: Before that is made live, will there be anything on the blog or status page? I think there are people using older viewers - especially on older hardware
* [14:37] Atashi Toshihiko: myself included
* [14:37] Rob Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Deprecated_Protocol_Features
* [14:37] Soft Linden: Or at least, you'd not be able to script with 1.20.
* [14:37] Sasuke Dragovar: bla bla .......
* [14:37] Sasuke's translator: bla bla .......
* [14:37] Squirrel Wood: So soon it will be mono compile only ^^
* [14:37] Robin Cornelius: I guess this would stop all new LSL scripts from that point and force mono only
* [14:37] Rob Linden: Atashi: yeah, we plan to give people plenty of warning
* [14:38] Sasuke Dragovar: i go away
* [14:38] Sasuke's translator: i go away
* [14:38] Sasuke Dragovar: che noia
* [14:38] Sasuke's translator: that boredom
* [14:38] Atashi Toshihiko: thanks :) The best I can run is 1.18 on my eeepc netbook - though I only use it rarely
* [14:38] Rob Linden: Atashi: both timing and prominence of warning
* [14:38] Soft Linden: Well, in the near future I believe we're still supporting LSL2, but compiled simulator side.
* [14:39] Soft Linden: As done in 1.21 and newer viewers if the proper caps are available
* [14:39] Rob Linden: Atashi: it works on the eeepc?
* [14:39] Robin Cornelius: oh ok, i assumed you were just stopping new scripts, but then i guess youve got to carry LSL2 for a long time so makes little difference
* [14:39] Squirrel Wood: if y'ask me I'd only leave the mono option for compiling scripts.
* [14:39] Atashi Toshihiko: Yes, 1.18 runs on my eeepc model 1000. I am using debian lenny on there.
* [14:40] Atashi Toshihiko: Haven't been able to compile it myself though, so I'm using the binary download
* [14:40] Rob Linden: Atashi: it *should* be possible to turn off graphics options and get the viewer running on the same hardware as the older viewers
* [14:40] Robin Cornelius: its never been quite the same
* [14:41] Merov Linden: needs to take off... dentist appointment... :(
* [14:41] Robin Cornelius: although killing mozlib will give you a performance boost so is worth it on a low end system
* [14:41] Atashi Toshihiko: Even with all the options turned off, anything newer than 1.18 crashes within 30 minutes. Whether it's the official viewer, or Imprudence, Kirstens, etc.
* [14:41] Atashi Toshihiko: I am sure it is due to the crippled Intel 945 graphics on the eee.
* [14:42] Robin Cornelius: yea that and other intel GFXs have been problematic
* [14:43] Soft Linden: Yes. At some point we'll turn off new LSL2 vm scripts. But not for a bit yet. And we'll be stuck supporting old LSL2 compilations for-ev-er.
* [14:43] Rob Linden: Robin & Atashi: yeah....we'd love to figure out how to get a better experience there
* [14:43] Squirrel Wood: unless you figure out a way to recompile the scripts without losing their current state and data
* [14:44] Soft Linden: That would be a dream, but very unlikely Squirrel. :)
* [14:44] Robin Cornelius: Rob strangly on my windows laptop, i can only run the viewer from inside VS that i've compiled my self. If i use the prebuild LL binaries it lasts about 3 minutes and its my GFX card related
* [14:44] Rob Linden: anything else we should cover today?
* [14:45] Squirrel Wood: Yes!
* [14:45] Squirrel Wood: What's for lunch?
* [14:45] Rob Linden: scratches his head in response to Robin's Win laptop experience
* [14:45] Robin Cornelius: as we have a couple of mins, just wanted to mention we been trying to turn #secondlife back in to the helpful and friendly place it use to be
* [14:46] Rob Linden: Robin: that's cool!
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: i should check the optimisation settings, they might be off
* [14:46] Robin Cornelius: i've seen optimisation trigger edge cases
* [14:46] Rob Linden: re: optimization edge cases....seems likely
* [14:47] Robin Cornelius: yea its off
* [14:47] Squirrel Wood: I love my random high prim objects ;)
* [14:47] Rob Linden: :)
* [14:47] Robin Cornelius: thats not to say i don't get GL errors still just far less frequent on this chip set that with opt on
* [14:48] Otaku Thor: sound like the Mac Book Pro issue I am having
* [14:49] Robin Cornelius: i might start doing auto builds of trunk now too, wondering how movmemnt on commit by commit tracking was comming along?
* [14:50] Rob Linden: making some interesting progress on that front....not a lot I'm going to say at this point, other than things aren't stalled
* [14:50] Robin Cornelius: ok cool
* [14:51] Soft Linden: There's a pretty good chance that will get discussed here next week
* [14:52] Rob Linden: additionally, we're getting more serious about migrating to Mercurial again. there's been plenty of internal tinkering for a while. we don't yet have external hosting sorted out, but that's something we'd like to get done
* [14:52] Robin Cornelius: distributed VCS has got to be a plus
* [14:53] Soft Linden: Big yes to that
* [14:53] Robin Cornelius: as long as its not bitkeeper
* [14:53] Rob Linden: yeah, and given the inhouse expertise we have on Mercurial, it's a pretty natural choice for us
* [14:53] Squirrel Wood: how is LLNet performing ?
* [14:53] Soft Linden: Robin - we're not looking at that. But any gripe apart from the license?
* [14:54] Robin Cornelius: ask BoS
* [14:54] Rob Linden: Robin: :)
* [14:54] Robin Cornelius: when tridge created his decoder everyone got burnt who was neer it
* [14:54] Rob Linden: Squirrel: the fact that I don't know is probably a good sign
* [14:54] Soft Linden: Squirrel - too soon to say, really. There's still a lot of noise in the transition. That transition includes some de-rube-goldberging of our network setup.
* [14:55] Soft Linden: You can watch the status blog to learn when pieces have been transitioned and start comparing hosts yourself, though.
* [14:55] Rob Linden: is impressed at Soft's verbing of Rube Goldberg
* [14:55] Soft Linden: "Verbing nouns weirds language."
* [14:55] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [14:55] Squirrel Wood: So you're making progress. That's good :)
* [14:56] Soft Linden: Yus
* [14:56] Rob Linden: Atashi: you were saying that you're a beginner on the code...what sorts of things are you looking at doing when you get up to speed?
* [14:57] Rob Linden: (if you don't mind me asking)
* [14:57] Atashi Toshihiko: I'm still learning how to do things - but I've managed to compile a viewer based on the 1.21 code in Mac OS X
* [14:57] Atashi Toshihiko: I have got some custom hooks built into the ownersay functions, and played around with a few other settings -
* [14:58] Atashi Toshihiko: but when you talk about people who are contributing patches.... to me it's a big accomplishment just to apply the patches :)
* [14:58] Rob Linden: there's a patch from Dale Glass that we were looking at earlier this morning that you might be interested in playing around with if you're in that area of the code
* [14:58] Squirrel Wood: Achievement unlocked: Successfull compile of the SL viewer source code.
* [14:59] Rob Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2546
* [14:59] Soft Linden: shoot - have to scramble - competing appointment!
* [14:59] Squirrel Wood: Achievement unlocked: Succeed in applying a patch to the SL source code
* [15:00] Rob Linden: :)
* [15:00] Rob Linden: yeah, we're at the end of our time
* [15:00] Robin Cornelius: arrg burned by gnutls again
* [15:00] Squirrel Wood: Avhievement unlocked: Attend the open source office hour
* [15:01] Robin Cornelius: See you all next week
* [15:01] Aimee Trescothick: bye :)
* [15:01] Rob Linden: well, anyway, hope to see you all on irc.efnet.org #opensl
* [15:01] Rob Linden: ....and on the SLDev mailing list
* [15:01] Rob Linden: ...and see you all next week!
* [15:01] Rob Linden: bye everyone...thanks for coming!
* [15:01] Robin Cornelius: bye!
* [15:02] Catharina Jacobus: Bye and thanks
* [15:02] Atashi Toshihiko: Cheers everyone, have a great week! :)
* [15:02] Otaku Thor: bye everyone
* [15:02] Squirrel Wood: ^^
* [15:02] Atashi Toshihiko: lol Squirrel - if I can just find the Blue Key then I can get a successful compile in Linux
Category:Open Source Meeting