HPforGrownups

HPforGrownups (a.k.a. Harry Potter for Grownups, HPfGU or HP4GU) is a Harry Potter mailing list founded in 1999. It started on Yahoo! Clubs and moved to eGroups on August 24, 2000, before ending up back on Yahoo! in early 2001 after eGroups was purchased to form Yahoo! Groups.
It was described as "a friendly, thought-provoking place for adults to enjoy discussions of the Harry Potter books. It is a moderated list with very high volume. Along with the extensive discussion board, HPFGU feautures polls, essays, jokes, as well as scheduled chat sessions."
This discussion list was very influential in shaping the Harry Potter fandom, and produced many BNFs that would found their own fanfiction archives. It was also infamous for its many ship wars and wanks.
HPforGrownups also sponsored Nimbus 2003, the first Harry Potter convention.
== History ==
Much of the group's history until 2003 was documented at the group's website, Fantastic Posts & Where to Find Them:
==Membership Size==
* August 24, 2000	(600 members)
* March 31, 2001	(1,000 members)
* August 31, 2001	(2,000 members)
* November 30, 2001	(3,000 members)
* April 15, 2002	(4,000 members)
* July 23, 2007 (27015 members )
* August 15, 2016 (26399 members)
==List Elves==
"As membership numbers increased, group leaders developed the idea of 'newbie moderators' in April 2001, which morphed into 'List Elves,' who are personal resources for each new member.... As Mods and Elves retired, they became Poltergeists, offering sage advice and words of wisdom on policy matters."Penny Linsenmayer and Cindy C., posted October 2002: 
==Canon Issues/Nitpicking/LOONing==
"The first member to take LOON-ing (L.O.O.N. is League of Obsessed Nitpickers) to the next level in terms of sheer comprehensiveness and painstaking attention to detail was Joywitch, who outlined a series of 32 mysteries in a three-part post (C2215, C2216 and C2218, 6/18/00). Indeed, Joywitch's list was so comprehensive that many of these issues form the basis for spirited LOONing to this day."Penny Linsenmayer and Cindy C., posted October 2002: 
==Filking==
"The first FILK was a ditty by Randy Estes, who rose to the challenge to devise a Harry Potter version of the song from 'Pirates of Penzance' - 'I Am the Very Model of an Adult Harry Potter Fan.' 
Since then, list members have generated 593 posts with 'FILK' in the subject header, with the most recent called 'The Wizard World,' to Disney's 'A Whole New World.' (Nicole (nplyon), 10/11/02). Caius Marcius alone has posted over 250 FILKs in almost every conceivable musical style, demonstrating a range that spans from 'Moaning Myrtle' (to the tune of 'Mona Lisa') (2/18/01) to 'Taunt Your Children Well' (to the tune of 'Teach Your Children Well - (A Snape Filk')) (3/10/01).
==Fanfic==
"On April 17, 2000 in Message C1082, fanfic made its debut on the list. Jeralyn wrote, 'I'm going to start writing a story, and each of you will continue it. To keep things from getting messy, I will SELECT someone to continue. That person will write the next bit, and then he or she will designate the next storyteller, and so on.' No Redeemable!Draco, no Vampire!Snape, and no Mary Sues for this particular fic. Instead Jeryalyn chose the title 'How Hagrid Became a Hero.' There were 16 installments, each with its own unique style of nail-biting drama..."Penny Linsenmayer and Cindy C., posted October 2002: 
Shortly after this round-robin began, a fan named Penny made the first fanfic recommendation. It was for Lori Summers' Paradigm of Uncertainty.
==Top Posters==
The twelve fans who posted over 500 messages between the beginning of the group and September 2002 were:
* Dee Rogers 	 (789 	posts) 
* Cindy C. 	 (786 	posts) 
* Amandageist 	 (1314 	posts) 
* Amy Z 	 (1108 	posts) 
* Penny Linsenmayer (1483 	posts) 
* Neil Ward 	 (1069 	posts) 
* Catlady 	 (1136 	posts) 
* Joywitch 	 (641 	posts) 
* Heidi Tandy 	 (744 	posts) 
* Caius Marcius (625 	posts) 
* Pippin 	 (612posts) 
* Susan McGee 	 (571 	posts) 
* Ebony (522 posts) 
Some other prolific posters:
* Cassandra Claire (143 posts, joined on September 15, 2000) 
* Lori Summers (103 posts)
==Inish Alley==
==Theory Bay==
Explanations of the theories, vessels, and personified characters of Theory Bay: Fantastic Posts Hypothetic Alley: Flying With The Can(n)on.
==June 2001: Word Hits the List Regarding Cassandra Claire's Ban from FFN==
Regarding discussion on the list about Cassandra Claire's ban from FanFiction.net due allegations of plagiarism?
Unfortunately and very frustratingly, there appear to be missing posts regarding the 2001 expulsion of Cassandra Claire from Fanfiction.net on the Harry Potter for Grown-ups list."The FanFiction.Net forums no longer exist. The relevant posts on GAFF and the old SugarQuill Forums are lost; I can't access them directly, and they don't appear in the Wayback Machine as far as I can tell. More recently, almost all posts dated June 23, 2001 on the ParadigmOfUncertainty list have been deleted or screened. The cassie_and_rhysenn list has been renamed "Rhysenn" and all message archives are locked and only accessible by list moderators. ETA: Rhysenn has posted below that she has unlocked the archive (thank you); posts from 6/23 to 6/26 are missing. There may also be missing posts on the Harry Potter for Grown-ups list, but I couldn't find those last year when I was researching the incident on mailing lists, so I assume that deletion is of much longer standing. [snipped] ETA: I had assumed that the missing posts had been screened and were available to the list moderators, but Lori has confirmed that she cannot see the missing posts on ParadigmOfUncertainty. At this point, I presume the missing posts on cassie_and_rhysenn and ParadigmOfUncertainty have been permanently deleted. I am sorry to hear that; I had hoped it would be possible to make them available again." -- comment by Avocado: the brawl, August 2006 
The four comments below are all that remain:
The first mention of the ban on the mailing list was on June 23, two days later, when a fan, Samantha, stated: "since that *damn* thing on ff.net about Cassie, I'm not posting on ff.net anymore." Another fan, Meg Rose, asked: "Why? With Cassie?" Heidi8 replied: "hi -- anyone who wants to quit ffnet, like I did earlier today should check into the hp_fanfiction yahoogroup -- you can post your fics there." The list mods then reminded fans that: "Discussions about the blacklisting of Cassie should please move over to our OT-Chatter List (which is where all fanfic discussion should be.)" The next day, Rowena, explained: "I'm replying. Apparently cassie has been blacklisted from the site for plagarism. If you would like to read more, try the Paradigm of Uncertainty group... The group has really gone ballistic over this."
== November 2001: Moderation of New Members==
==February and March 2002: A Hacked Account, and A Moderator Deletes Files==
===A Hack===
On February 13, 2002, a fan named "Mafalda Hopkirk" joined the HP4GU's chat. Mafalda ranted against list mods, namely Penny and John, citing unfair moderating and heavy-handedness. Many fans argued with her both about her antagonistic accusations, and for her use of using a pseud. 
Even Cassandra Claire got into the mix, both chiding Mafalda for her claims and for Malfalda's inept use of the word "viputerate." when she meant "vituperate": 
On February 14, the mods wrote a long post to the list explaining that Mafalda was actually a long-time fan named Sinead, that Sinead had confessed, and she had been put on moderated status. The mods emphasized that while they were shocked and hurt by Sinead's actions, they felt that everyone made mistakes and that there was no reason to ban her.message #9481, HP4GU OT-Chatter
Sinead herself made an apology to the list on February 14th, citing boyfriend problems and general unhappiness."I don't blame you guys for being mad at me, I realized, right after I posted the last one, that it was a mistake all along and I was incredibly immature to do that. I was blinded by anger, really I was. I had a fight with my boyfriend, my suitemate told me to leave, and all sorts of schnit. ...I'm sorry that if Malfalda/Sinead tried to break up the list... [I feel] bad for angering the masses of OT-chatter and won't do it again if [I] join another fandom." -- message #9300, February 14, 2002, Harry Potter for Grownups Chatter 
On February 16, she left a short post saying the mods had banned her"I've just been asked to leave the group and HPFGU in general in the wake of Mafalda.... Sorry this happened to me and I really sincerely regret it... Goodbye, Sinead.." -- message #9350, February 16, 2002, HP4GU OT-Chatter, something that was untrue. "Sinead has most assuredly not been asked in any way to leave any of the HPfGU's groups by any member of the Moderator Team. We regret that she has decided to remover herself from the groups. Kelley, for the Moderator Team." -- message #9356, Feburary 16, 2002 
Some other accounts are embedded in discussions at VoyForums: Writer's University: Fan Fiction Ethical & Legal Discussion Board . One example is this conversation between Laura Hale and Sinead at Re: New fan fiction archive, and misc. on September 10, 2002.
 
A fan in 2003 recounts the event: 
Heidi8's comments from 2013: 
There is much about this, all tangled up in other stuff, of course, in these comments from 2006: seeThe Msscribe Story, Preface and Chapter One.
===Deleted Files===
In March 2002, one of the group's mailing lists was deleted.
Heidi8 explained in Fic: Why Fanfiction Is Taking Over the World (2013):
 
A list mod, John Walton, posted on behalf of all the mods: 
While the former mod who deleted the file is not named here, the person responsible may have been someone involved in a political dust-up and mass resignation of Moderators in March 2002 described a year later by Joywitch M. Curmudgeon:
For much more of this discussion, see the Harry Potter for Grownups OT-Chat (a public group) posts: #19638, #19639, #19648, #19649, #19651... and many more in this thread.
==Sister Lists==
Archived discussions are located at HPforGrownups-Archives, HPforGrownups-Archives2, and HPforGrownups-Archives3. The second has this message: "This group houses archived messages 32000 to 52999 for our current Yahoo Group "HPforGrownups." You cannot post messages to this group. Its function is to provide a handy method to obtain our Group's messages."
Announcements were posted at HPFGU-Announcements, with messages public to non-members.
HPFGU-Movie was created to discuss the first Harry Potter film.
HPFGU-Convention was created to plan the first Harry Potter convention, which became Nimbus 2003.
HPfGU-Feedback was created for discussion of list rules.
HPforGrownUps-Graphics was created for members to post large graphics files.
HPforGrownupsChatScripts (defunct) contains transcripts of some list chat sessions (2000-2001).
There are also various regional groups such as HPFGU-NewYork, HPFGU-London, HPFGU-Germany, HP4GU-GreatLakes, and HP4GU-Florida.
===OT-Chatter List===
"The OT-Chatter list, established February 7, 2001, is now the equivalent of the town square for much of the community building that takes place at HPfGU. OT-Chatter was originally formed after list volume on the main list reached an all-time high of 3,086 in January 2001. A great many of the main list posts did not discuss the Harry Potter books, but instead reflected the close personal relationships among list members. There were recipes, discussions of unusual foods (spotted dick?), introductions and forays into social and cultural issues."Penny Linsenmayer and Cindy C., posted October 2002: 
==Further Reading==
* Fantastic Posts & Where to Find Them (2002-2003)
* Harry Potter for Grownups FAQ (2001 or before)
* The Humongous Bigfile: Posting Rules You Never Knew You Had to Follow and How to Conform to Them Now That You've Signed Up (2004)
* The Sugar Quill at HP4GU, Or: Can You Guess Why We Started Our Own Site? (2000-2002)
* Overanalyzing the Text: Posts to HPfGU (2002-2003)
 
==Notes & References==
===Notes===
===References===
Category:Harry Potter Mailing Lists
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Category:Fandom Wars
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