Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-07-01

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on July 1st, 2010
= Agenda =
* Discuss resolution of previous open items.
* Updates
** Oskar is back in the good ol' U S of A.
** 1.40.2 Is on AGNI
*** Any issues?
*** How bad is "Physical objects showing phantom traits when interacting with more than one solid object - Havok 7"
** QA at LL going forward.
*** Public Beta Testing.
*** What would make things easier for you?
*** What works?
*** What doesn't?
= Resolved Items =
= Meeting Minutes =
= Transcript =
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for July 1st, 2010:
* [14:58] SHAMUS Carter: shouts: welcome home oskar
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: *ohai
* [15:00] Gooden Uggla: hiya oskar! we need to get you a better walk...
* [15:01] Gooden Uggla: hiya maestro
* [15:01] Maestro Linden: hi there
* [15:01] Gooden Uggla: interesing jira
* [15:01] xstorm Radek: hi Oskar :-)
* [15:01] Kaluura Boa: January 2008... The same old jira
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: welcome ladies and gentlemen, prims and geeks
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: I love my walk gooden
* [15:02] xstorm Radek: Oskar i think there is a bad reading on the Stats
* [15:02] Gooden Uggla: nice for a waddle
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: I like my waddle gooden
* [15:02] Gooden Uggla: :)
* [15:02] Gooden Uggla: shaddups
* [15:02] Gooden Uggla: welcoome home oskar
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: thanks gooden
* [15:02] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: so who all we got here today?
* [15:03] Ovaltine Constantine: Mee!
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: small group today or is everyone late?
* [15:03] xstorm Radek: i think im only on the test server now i just crashed on agni
* [15:03] Latif Khalifa: it's been mostly empty today on the main grid too
* [15:04] SHAMUS Carter: whats up with the stats xstorm?
* [15:04] Lares Carter: heya everyone
* [15:04] xstorm Radek: i think the reading are wrong
* [15:04] Monty Linden: hello
* [15:04] Gooden Uggla: babbage/kelly's meeting yesterday kind of deflated a few people
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: :-(
* [15:04] xstorm Radek: hi Monty
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: gets out the air pump
* [15:04] Kitto Flora: Americans departing for the long weekend?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I know what you mean though Gooden.
* [15:05] Gooden Uggla: i feel sorry for kelly, that was quite a blow
* [15:05] xstorm Radek: Gooden good for you some need it
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: There has been a definite lack of windo for our sails
* [15:05] SHAMUS Carter: somone step on a pin?
* [15:05] Gooden Uggla: hi monty
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: The Philip news was good though
* [15:05] xstorm Radek: what ?
* [15:05] Ilana Debevec: yeah, big time.... does anyone know of the Mono upgrade/fix will every happen now? That's a stabilioty issue and Kelly was kinda... uncertain
* [15:05] xstorm Radek: what happen to Kelly ?
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: I don't know Ilana
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: Kelly is still here
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: afaik
* [15:05] xstorm Radek: some thing happen to Kelly Linden ?
* [15:06] Monty Linden: it has to happen someday, our debian is getting OoooOooOOOOld
* [15:06] xstorm Radek: damn do not scare me
* [15:06] Gooden Uggla: C # was tabled indefinitely
* [15:06] Latif Khalifa: Kelly is the only surviving scripting linden, we need to be nice to him
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: there are other smart people here
* [15:06] Ilana Debevec: Monty, server code on stone tablets??
* [15:06] SHAMUS Carter: c# tabled nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
* [15:06] Gooden Uggla: which philip news? there were a few things...
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: greetings *
* [15:06] Rex Cronon: :)
* [15:06] Liisa Runo: we were unhappy about the news Babbage gave to us and we were in bad mood at Kelly's first OH, but we said sorry and that we will be nicer next time
* [15:06] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, I know there are, but of those working on the scripting road map, Kelly is the only one left
* [15:07] Kitto Flora: Try Ubuntu 9.04, its a good one
* [15:07] xstorm Radek: i know kelly linden from olive sandbox back from his real name
* [15:07] SHAMUS Carter: they killed babage?
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: lissia where is kelly going to hold his 9am monday meetings?
* [15:07] Gooden Uggla: liisa*
* [15:07] Chaley May: when is kellys office hours?
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: alright. on that note I will post the agenda
* [15:07] Monty Linden: ilana: very much, I lost kdiff3 this week
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: 
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:07] Liisa Runo: idk, will see it in the OH calendar
* [15:07] Chaley May: thanx :)
* [15:07] Rex Cronon: monday 9am. if i am not mistaken
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: for all of you tracking my flying habits I am back in Seattle
* [15:08] Monty Linden: just burned 10.04 DVDs for himself
* [15:08] Gooden Uggla: yay!
* [15:08] Ilana Debevec: Babbage is still... up in the air... July 9 may know more
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: got off the flgith form singapore at 9:15AM and was in the office an hour later
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: so no slacking here
* [15:08] Gooden Uggla: what was the philip news?
* [15:08] xstorm Radek: ok Oskar please we need real working test tools
* [15:08] Gooden Uggla: bummer oskar, go get some coffee
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: gooden, I can't remember if it was official, but it can be found on SL rumors site if it wasn't
* [15:09] Gooden Uggla: and say hi to the coffee babe
* [15:09] Kitto Flora: 10.04 on a 64 bit ccpu has a lot of problems. I had to trash it and go back to 9.04
* [15:09] Gooden Uggla: ok, thanks
* [15:09] xstorm Radek: the stat reading are very much wrong
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: heh. coffee babes plural gooden
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:09] Gooden Uggla: nice!
* [15:09] Rex Cronon: there is a rumor site?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:09] SHAMUS Carter: the stats lie?
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: gets this train back on track
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: one dot forty dot two
* [15:09] Gooden Uggla: i'm assuming he means the herald
* [15:10] xstorm Radek: yes the Stats lie
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: xstorm. tell us about what you're seeing with the stats windows
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: then tell monty you want a 1.40.3
* [15:10] Ovaltine Constantine: text.status.YAY 1.40.2 on Agni!
* [15:10] SHAMUS Carter: 1.40.4 hehe
* [15:10] xstorm Radek: i can show you on a prim the the reading are just not right
* [15:11] Monty Linden: no 1.40.3!!!!
* [15:11] Monty Linden: We're done.
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: explain
* [15:11] Monty Linden: Best release EVER
* [15:11] Monty Linden: :-)
* [15:11] Kaluura Boa: http textures is missing...
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: this has been a tough release. we should give a round of applause for monty and maestro
* [15:11] Kitto Flora: needs 1.42 to fix the broken content
* [15:11] Ilana Debevec: 1.40.42 ( the answer to everything)
* [15:11] Stickman Ingmann: I don't have a clap emote. :(
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: everyone has a
* [15:12] Gooden Uggla: .-'`'-. APPLAUSE APPLAUSE .-'`'-.
* [15:12] SHAMUS Carter: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*Yayyyyyyy!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: / clap
* [15:12] xstorm Radek: ok if you look at them screen shots
* [15:12] xstorm Radek: look at the red bar line
* [15:13] Latif Khalifa: wtg monty & maestro :)
* [15:13] xstorm Radek: first off you will see its off the chart
* [15:13] SHAMUS Carter: wow you have a lot of bandwoth?
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: looks at the prims
* [15:13] xstorm Radek: then look at the badwith reading and ping to sim
* [15:14] SHAMUS Carter: my ping sim is only 55ms
* [15:14] xstorm Radek: there is a reading error
* [15:14] Ovaltine Constantine: Mine's 27, if we're bragging, Teehee
* [15:14] xstorm Radek: if that was a true reading it will not even be close to that
* [15:14] kizmut Smit: hmm... that is a snapshot from right here?
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: this is on just 1 region?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: from 1.23?
* [15:15] SHAMUS Carter: might just be your sim xstorm
* [15:15] xstorm Radek: 914kbps is not real it can not happen
* [15:15] xstorm Radek: no its only on Agni and the new 1.4X server roll out
* [15:15] SHAMUS Carter: why not xstorm?
* [15:15] SHAMUS Carter: anythign is poossab;le
* [15:15] Kitto Flora: Are you taling about 'Basic FPS' bargraph?
* [15:15] SHAMUS Carter: bites hit tung
* [15:16] xstorm Radek: sorry the mathmatics do not work that way
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: ?
* [15:16] SHAMUS Carter: he is talkign about the bandwith? and ping
* [15:16] SHAMUS Carter: and i have seen worse xstorm
* [15:16] SHAMUS Carter: it's very posable
* [15:17] Monty Linden: hmmm, there was some internal chatter about some sim stats logging being off...
* [15:17] SHAMUS Carter: i have had pings has high as 1000
* [15:17] xstorm Radek: first off im on a ADSL 3g line
* [15:17] Monty Linden: BUT have you compared with a 1.23 viewer?
* [15:17] kizmut Smit: That looks like high latency.
* [15:17] xstorm Radek: to even come close to that reading i need to be plug in to a ethernet on there server
* [15:18] kizmut Smit: It holds that at a steady rate.
* [15:18] xstorm Radek: yes
* [15:18] SHAMUS Carter: 914mps is less then a meg
* [15:18] Latif Khalifa: I had some strange glitches on my 1.40 region to do with local teleports. but I could not make a reproducable case. a couple of times when i opted to "teleport home" and i was on the same sim as my home location was, i ended up two floors below. same happened to my partner
* [15:18] SHAMUS Carter: kbs
* [15:18] xstorm Radek: and it looks like the user side software is seeing the data wrong
* [15:18] Latif Khalifa: but then later on it worked... so who knows
* [15:18] Stickman Ingmann: xstorm, it's probably bits per second. Divide by 8 to get bytes per second.
* [15:19] Oskar Linden: so are we seeing an issue here or not?
* [15:19] xstorm Radek: still will not be off the graph line
* [15:19] SHAMUS Carter: the grap has alweay lied
* [15:19] xstorm Radek: yes with how the user side sees the stat data
* [15:20] SHAMUS Carter: mine is spiking at 700kbps form time to time
* [15:20] Maestro Linden: the green bar seems to agree with the numerical bandwidth reading (roughly)
* [15:20] Falcon Linden: All right, all right, what's broken now? :)
* [15:20] SHAMUS Carter: but avraging 125
* [15:20] Kitto Flora: I dont see any problems with the two displayed Stats panels
* [15:20] Kitto Flora: Whats supposed to be wrong with them?
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: Falcon, xstorm sez you broke stats
* [15:21] xstorm Radek: in this sim my reading are right
* [15:21] Falcon Linden: xstorm says a lot of things :)
* [15:21] SHAMUS Carter: to fast for xstorm to handle
* [15:21] SHAMUS Carter: hehe
* [15:21] xstorm Radek: lol
* [15:21] xstorm Radek: thanks Falcon
* [15:21] Falcon Linden: Yep
* [15:21] Falcon Linden: Any time
* [15:21] Falcon Linden: Okay, so what's broken that's significant? :)
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: so your region on agni shows weird stats for all users xstorm?
* [15:21] Maestro Linden: I'd expect the bandwidth and latency meters to be generated viewer-side..
* [15:22] xstorm Radek: i am getting it on 3 PC's and one server
* [15:22] SHAMUS Carter: might just be your client xstorm
* [15:22] Monty Linden: SVC-5952 people?
* [15:22] Issue Helper: [#SVC-5952
* http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5952 
* [15:22] Falcon Linden: Not true.
* [15:22] Falcon Linden: SVC-5952 is a red herring.
* [15:22] Issue Helper: [#SVC-5952
* http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5952 
* [15:22] Falcon Linden: Watch and ye shall see
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: a red herring prim sandwich. I saw the pics
* [15:23] xstorm Radek: yes thats a fake
* [15:23] Monty Linden: I'd be totally happy with that....
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: falcon is doing an experiment
* [15:23] xstorm Radek: but see stats on the left in this sim is right
* [15:23] Falcon Linden: Yes. And here's my prediction, as an good experiment should have
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: put on your mad scientist av falcon
* [15:23] SHAMUS Carter: •*•.. HahahaA •*•.. 
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: The three boxes are perfectly aligned. So I don't expect the middle box to go anywhere because it has no "best escape route"
* [15:24] Oskar Linden: you only get to do that once per meeting Shamus
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: But
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: If I try again with the second physical prim a bit offset...
* [15:24] Falcon Linden: Hey, look what happened!
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*No Problem!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
* [15:24] SHAMUS Carter: yah unicode is evil
* [15:24] xstorm Radek: Falcon i was thinking do to the rollout just happen on agni and it be that the servers may not be sending the right readings as of yet ?
* [15:25] Falcon Linden: no idea, I'm not a viewer stats guy, I use my own stats tools
* [15:25] Falcon Linden: So, can we close off that SVC-whatever that was?
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: not sure about that the right readings for bandwidth xsotrm?
* [15:25] Issue Helper: Issue does not exist... try again, Falcon Linden
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: sure falcon
* [15:25] Falcon Linden: woohoo
* [15:25] xstorm Radek: the one on the left is oskar
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: ?
* [15:27] SHAMUS Carter: so the bandwith beater is a little wonky?
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: Falcon, so that sandwich case (screenshot #3 in SVC-5952) is pretty straightforward. But I'm wondering if SLRR (SL railroad?) would somehow break from this behavior, as Yevad claims
* [15:27] Issue Helper: Issue does not exist... try again, Maestro Linden
* [15:27] xstorm Radek: yes the readings are off making testing poor
* [15:27] SHAMUS Carter: have to run buy all
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: is just relieved no bunnies died 4 days before a holiday
* [15:27] Maestro Linden: I guess we can find out firsthand since the 1.40 roll is complete
* [15:27] Rex Cronon: tc
* [15:27] Gooden Uggla: *smiles*
* [15:28] Rex Cronon: u buy beer to all:)
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: well alright then. I say we call 1.40 good
* [15:28] Kitto Flora: Is the 5952 behavior different in 1.40 than in previous versions?
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: anyone second that?
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: Maestro: No idea. I'd have to see it in the debugger
* [15:28] Liisa Runo: to me the behavior seems wrong, and i can imagine lot of content might be affected
* [15:28] Kaluura Boa: No idea...
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: Liisa: Wrong how?
* [15:28] xstorm Radek: yes the roll out work great just bad stats readings
* [15:28] Falcon Linden: My experiment looked pretty right to me
* [15:29] Liisa Runo: just like it is told in the jira, the prim behave like phantom, instead of finding it's way out from the squeese
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: are we seeing real world cases of broken behaviour?
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: Kitto: I tried the sandwich case in 1.38, and the behavior is slightly different, but didn't seem any 'better' than 1.40's behavior
* [15:29] Ilana Debevec: just an FYI from the main grid... TP's are having some pretty serious borkage
* [15:29] xstorm Radek: so im back asking for better testing tools lol
* [15:29] Kitto Flora: Looks right to me too - Exactly squeeze a phys prim and it will not auto-eject.
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Liisa: You can get out of a squeeze when it's a perfect squeeze--which direction woul dyou go?
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: hold on xstorm
* [15:29] Liisa Runo: anyway, i have just looke dthe jira, and not played with it, and i dont play with physics much anyway,
* [15:29] Falcon Linden: Then don't say you agree it's broken :)
* [15:29] Moundsa Mayo: Sure - even physical spheres wiull 'stack' and not fall until nudged.
* [15:29] Gooden Uggla: actually, i was kind of surprised the pilot didn't stay out till tuesday... 2 day pilots make people nervous
* [15:30] Gooden Uggla: we have memories...
* [15:30] Gooden Uggla: that said, nothing seems tyo be popping up
* [15:30] Rex Cronon: lets say things r ok for now. at least until additional data is gathered:)
* [15:30] Oskar Linden: Gooden, if a pilot is at 20% of the grid we see issues pop up pretty darn fast
* [15:30] Kaluura Boa: NMI...
* [15:30] Gooden Uggla: understood
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: still, before a holiday weekend, you see my point
* [15:31] Kitto Flora: All the train vehicles I have in 1.40 systems are not 'suffering' from this - but such a squeeze situation is not encounterd
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: I see your poit, but I think we're looking good
* [15:31] Liisa Runo: but i do think that prims used to always go to some direction when squeesed, trough some prim to get out, idk, the jira is spooky but i guess we will hear very soon i some content is really affected
* [15:31] Oskar Linden: when there are issues the pilot susses them out mighty fast
* [15:31] Gooden Uggla: i think you are too, i was just making a note
* [15:31] Falcon Linden: If they managed to wriggle out before, that just means the engine has become more realistic! Yay!
* [15:32] Rex Cronon: what i don;t get is why rausch didn't run 1.4 on the main?
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: keep an eye out for me. mail the server beta email list if you see anythig this weekend ok?
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: https://lists.secondlife.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/server-beta
* [15:32] Rex Cronon: that is wherelots of physcis takes place:)
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: sign up there if you haven't
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: I'll keep an eye on my email
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: why didn't you say something 3 months ago Rex?
* [15:33] Rex Cronon: what? id put rausch's name in the jira. didn't i?
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: so it didn't get it ?
* [15:33] Falcon Linden: All right, folks, if there are no other physics questions, I'm going to get going. I'm working on an awesome new feature.
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: milo put all of them on there
* [15:33] xstorm Radek: may i ask for one little update to the defult to settings on the Viewer please ?
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: not here xstorm
* [15:33] xstorm Radek: damn lol
* [15:33] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:34] Rex Cronon: tc falcon
* [15:34] Kitto Flora: Do we have a fix for tilting vehicles?
* [15:34] Kaluura Boa: Viewer discussions are taboo
* [15:34] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Falcon!
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: Kitto: Do we have proof and examples of tilting vehicles?
* [15:34] Kitto Flora: Yes
* [15:34] Kitto Flora: about 200
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: Send one to me.
* [15:34] Gooden Uggla: thanks falcon, have a good afternoon
* [15:34] Kitto Flora: In main grid, Falcon?
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: No, here
* [15:34] xstorm Radek: thank you Falcon :-) laterz
* [15:34] Kitto Flora: Got a track?
* [15:34] Falcon Linden: No
* [15:35] Kitto Flora: OK
* [15:35] Falcon Linden: All right, cheers folks
* [15:35] Kitto Flora: Will drop you the paarts
* [15:35] xstorm Radek: try it on sim crossings lol
* [15:35] Kitto Flora: Try what on sim crossings?
* [15:35] Gooden Uggla: wasn't the yaw problem fixed on vehicles?
* [15:35] xstorm Radek: your vehicles
* [15:36] xstorm Radek: i still can not cross
* [15:36] Kitto Flora: The trains dont do sim crossing: SL dont support that.
* [15:36] xstorm Radek: teleport or walk
* [15:36] Kitto Flora: The single vehicles cross sim borders OK - good as older versions anyways
* [15:36] xstorm Radek: not for me
* [15:37] Kitto Flora: Wengen line is currently loosing ~20 vehicles a day
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: losing?
* [15:37] Kitto Flora: But thats not related to 1.40 I suspect. Its a services or asset server issue
* [15:37] Kitto Flora: Yes - loosing - they vanish at border crossing. OLD problem
* [15:37] Maestro Linden: xstorm, I'd try with the release viewer too. The beta 2.x viewer has (or had?) a bug in which your avatar can't cross a region boundary properly while sitting in vehicle
* [15:38] Gooden Uggla: is "losing" rderailments, returns or disappearances?
* [15:38] Kitto Flora: disappears - not returned to Inv. But the objects are set to dispose
* [15:39] Gooden Uggla: hmm...
* [15:39] Kitto Flora: It was a big issue many months back - like 20+ /day loss. Then something got fixed and it dropped to < 5 a day loss
* [15:40] Kitto Flora: Then 1.40 was rolled for the first time and around then.. loss went back up to 20
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: persistence before derezz
* [15:40] Kitto Flora: Then 1.38 was put back and the losses remained hi
* [15:40] Gooden Uggla: kitto are those mono compiled?
* [15:40] Kitto Flora: Wengen line is all 1.40 now and the loss remains hi
* [15:40] Kitto Flora: Yes, all MONO
* [15:41] Gooden Uggla: have someone re-compile a train in LSL and report back losses please
* [15:41] Kitto Flora: Its not a train, its a railcar
* [15:41] Gooden Uggla: remember that weird deserialize bug?
* [15:42] Kitto Flora: But I can switch it to LSL and see what happens
* [15:42] Kitto Flora: I have dounts that its a real dim-code problem
* [15:42] Gooden Uggla: give it a shot, see what happens
* [15:42] Kitto Flora: sim-code
* [15:42] xstorm Radek: :-)
* [15:42] xstorm Radek: i like Dim code better
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: so here's another reported 1.40 bug that's curious: SVC-5953 Grey goo fence is too aggressive on 1.40.2 Server - Breaks content that works on 1.38.6!
* [15:43] Issue Helper: [#SVC-5953
* http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5953 
* [15:43] Kitto Flora: You like dim sum eh?
* [15:43] xstorm Radek: lol
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: I can't repro any differences at all, and as far as the devs could tell, the grey goo fence didn't change between 1.38 and 1.40
* [15:44] Latif Khalifa: got 22 votes fast, must be something to it
* [15:44] Gooden Uggla: weapons makers got a sudden throttle
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: bots!
* [15:44] Latif Khalifa: lol
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: my guess/hope is that on 1.38, the sim was too laggy to have scripts rez faster than the grey goo throttle
* [15:44] Rex Cronon: what throttle, gooden?>
* [15:44] Oskar Linden: that makes the most sense to me
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: and that in 1.40, lag was lower so the objects rezzed faster and triggered the throttle =P
* [15:45] Latif Khalifa: could be that
* [15:45] Rex Cronon: u mean bullets trigger the goo fence?
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: anyway, it would be nice to have a repro object that doesn't hit the grey goo fence in 1.38 but does hit te fence in 1.40
* [15:45] Ima Mechanique: anything rezzing too fast triggers goo
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: yes, Rex, I think bullets are the most common use case
* [15:45] Kitto Flora: Are temp-on-rez excepted?
* [15:46] Liisa Runo: no
* [15:46] Gooden Uggla: has anyone figured how much lower lag is now?
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: there is a problem with bullets. it u want to set them to damage u must use a script:(
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: everytime u rez them
* [15:46] xstorm Radek: i can stop a sim thats running 1.40
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: we're recording simstats, gooden.. we'll have a good idea within a few days
* [15:46] xstorm Radek: so do not ask me
* [15:47] Liisa Runo: the damage stays as prim property
* [15:47] Rex Cronon: if u remove the script no more damage
* [15:47] Gooden Uggla: i'm very curious, anecdotally on 3 heavily scripted sims i'm involved with, seems to be improving the lag situation
* [15:48] Gooden Uggla: not a lot, but *some*
* [15:48] Latif Khalifa: Gooden, I have not noticed the difference on my sim, but then again my sim is not physics heavy but it suffers from the freeze bug
* [15:48] Latif Khalifa: and the feeze bug is alive and well
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: the proof will be if restarts are needed over lobger time periods *nods*
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: longer*
* [15:49] Simon Linden: Gooden ... is there a particular lag event you mean? TP arrivals, rezzing stuff, or just random lags?
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: only one sim i'm in has a loty of physics (waterslide lab)
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: alright. so with 10 minutes left
* [15:49] Latif Khalifa: Gooden, I doubt it, the freezes seem to be increasing with time the same way on 1.38
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: let's talk about QA and public beta testing
* [15:49] Gooden Uggla: the rest are gaming and clubbing
* [15:49] Oskar Linden: what works well?
* [15:49] Liisa Runo: damage should stay, must test that to believe you
* [15:50] Gooden Uggla: simon sim freezes and general lag
* [15:50] Kitto Flora: Humm - Okemo Canyon would be good to look at for lag impact - due to a huge shopping mall and all its scripts it used to be chronically lagged.
* [15:50] Gooden Uggla: latif, sim restarts will still be necessary, i try to do them ever 48 hours
* [15:51] Latif Khalifa: Gooden, I generaly have to restart my sim every 3-4 days too
* [15:51] Gooden Uggla: nods
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: I'll ask my question again
* [15:52] xstorm Radek: i have to fight with the Ontyne in the damn Support live chat every time to have them restart our sim
* [15:52] Oskar Linden: ok. and now I'm getting some lag
* [15:52] xstorm Radek: ;-)
* [15:52] Kitto Flora: -
* [15:52] xstorm Radek: that was me
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: but regarding public beta testing of which each of you are active members
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: what works well?
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: of the things the lab does, what helps? what works?
* [15:53] Oskar Linden: regarding public beta testing of server
* [15:53] Latif Khalifa: Oskar, I think the beta test does manage to catch the worst offenders
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: rezing a prim still works:)
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: that is god . right:)
* [15:53] Rex Cronon: good*
* [15:53] xstorm Radek: and now we see it
* [15:53] Monty Linden: just love fruitcake
* [15:54] Kitto Flora: Getting up-to-date copy of region, and Av's inventory. Then we can test stuff quick
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: wow
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: slow
* [15:54] Latif Khalifa: (the 1-40 furst rollback was due to pass events thingie, several bugs were identified in that area during beta)
* [15:54] Master Starship: I think it catachs things that will effect at least 5%
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: really xstorm?
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: you couldn't wait?
* [15:54] Master Starship: but not always the ones that only affect 1%
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: look at the mini map
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: until after the meeting?
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: oppss
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: true
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: how about we keep this meeting to taking about testing ok?
* [15:54] xstorm Radek: i did not do that
* [15:54] Oskar Linden: please?
* [15:55] xstorm Radek: 'seems it just gone off again odd
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: there are 167 other hours in the week to toss prims around on ADITI :-)
* [15:55] Latif Khalifa: would be nice to have a web page where one could tick "sync my inv on next aditi login"
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: this one is mine
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: agreed latif
* [15:55] xstorm Radek: true sorry :-)
* [15:55] Kitto Flora: Also - having a clue as to what may be affected - that helps focus testing
* [15:55] Oskar Linden: file that under inventory issues
* [15:55] Rex Cronon: is there a list of things that MUST work?
* [15:55] Gooden Uggla: yes please oskar
* [15:56] Lares Carter: i like what latif said.
* [15:56] xstorm Radek: no lag
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: I was first asking what works well
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: I meant...
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: from a process point of view
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: weekly office hours works well? yes or no?
* [15:56] Liisa Runo: yes
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: server beta email works well yes or no?
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: that kind of thing
* [15:56] Latif Khalifa: i think we get sim versions well in advance with plentu of time for testing
* [15:56] Kitto Flora: Depends what you mean by 'works
* [15:56] xstorm Radek: yes
* [15:57] Latif Khalifa: i think OH are fine
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: so plenty of time
* [15:57] Ima Mechanique: OH, yes
* [15:57] xstorm Radek: OH is great
* [15:57] Master Starship: OH big yes
* [15:57] Gooden Uggla: in answer to your question - having oatmeal siums to specifically test and record for testing (an http oatmeal/voiewer combo would be really cool)
* [15:57] Lares Carter: yes, weekly is a good rhythm.
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: we might be moving towards a faster delivery model
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: like 4 weeks between server versions
* [15:57] Latif Khalifa: Oskar I am all for that
* [15:57] xstorm Radek: that sounds great
* [15:57] Latif Khalifa: release often, release early
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: has pros and cons
* [15:57] Oskar Linden: but it lets fixes get in faster
* [15:57] Kitto Flora: 4 weeks on the main Grid Oskar?
* [15:58] Latif Khalifa: it does, but pros outwight the cons imho
* [15:58] Lares Carter: would be nice to have more mails on the list with latest news.
* [15:58] xstorm Radek: Oskar may i pull more testers on to Aditi ?
* [15:58] Rex Cronon: how about having an OH where everybody does a demo of what doens't work?
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: yes kitto
* [15:58] Kitto Flora: Again it depends...
* [15:58] Gooden Uggla: show n' tell hour!
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: I'll make it a homework assignment. :-D
* [15:58] Gooden Uggla: we'd need someone to count the crashes
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: Ok Class take out your pencils
* [15:58] Kitto Flora: See - really 1.40 does not fix anything that was a problem for me, and I have 2 new bugs to deal with
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: Write a Theme in a notecard and send it to Oskar :-)
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: on the topic
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: QA at LL going forward.
* 
* * Public Beta Testing.
* * What would make things easier for you?
* * What works?
* * What doesn't?
* [15:59] Kitto Flora: If udates fixed old bugs and did not introduce new ones, they would be more welcome
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: * what you would like to see changed
* [15:59] Latif Khalifa: how many words? :P
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: as many as you want latif
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: 10 words:)(
* [15:59] Oskar Linden: write all that up and send it to me in a notecard on AGNI (not aditi)
* [16:00] Gooden Uggla: would like to see the debian/mono package changed :)
* [16:00] xstorm Radek: i seem to have lost my friend ANSI Soderstrom and have not seen him in some time :-(
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: I'll sift through them and create a good list and we can talk about it next week
* [16:00] Latif Khalifa: deal
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: yeah where is ANSI?
* [16:00] Kitto Flora: I'd like to see the new bugs fixed *before* the update is released on the grid
* [16:00] Rex Cronon: p.s. u have to write int hex:)
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: excellent point Kitto
* [16:01] xstorm Radek: him and be had some heavy testing to do and he missed his check in
* [16:01] Latif Khalifa: i would also like aditi to support viewer devs more, i know that is not one of your concerns guys, but it would be nice to have a viewer dev sandbox with stuff enabled that is not enabled on the normal sims
* [16:01] xstorm Radek: i do not know what has happen to him
* [16:01] Latif Khalifa: (i know its outside of scope of server beta testing) xD
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: well... QA is becoming a bit more centralized regards to product Latif
* [16:02] Maestro Linden: how about notifications about new server versions, including lists of bugfixes and other changes? I sent out group notices like that last week, but I wonder how effective they were. Maybe it would be better to send information like that to the mailing list?
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: long story
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: but it might be more relevent soon
* [16:02] Latif Khalifa: Meastro, I would like changelog posted on the mailing list please
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: relevant :-(
* [16:02] Latif Khalifa: as sl group notices are iffy
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: and that does it :-)
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: we're done