Mesh/Archive/2011-03-21

== Agenda ==
# Please add topics here, also please put your SL name down so we can follow up if we have questions. thanks!
# Pending updates to Aditi sim which will cause older existing beta content to fail [charlar]
# Can you give us an update on recent progress and tell us what your current priorities are? Vivienne Daguerre
# Is there anything in particular that you need us to test? Vivienne Daguerre
# Are we there yet? Vivienne Daguerre
# New streaming costs are in wiki and viewer. Are they showing on (a) edit floater, (b) upload floater?
# Rumor: Mesh is on hold indefinitely. True or False? If so, why?
# New viewer is having problems loading meshes and textures :(
# Can we get a check box in the preferences menu for focal blur (on/off)?
# Offset pivot is strange (CTS-498, CTS-500).
# The mesh pivot point change is not acting as expected (at least not on models created in Blender). If you place the AssetPivot object in a position relative to your model where you need it, it gives unexpected results on upload. (Ashasekayi Ra) Forum discussion: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Changing-Pivot-Point/td-p/750457
# Does llmesh support arbitrary bones- basically I'm asking is, does LL just need to support it in the client for custom bones to work? llanim seems to be ready for any new bones, but I don't know about llmesh. -- Raz
# Do you need LOD if you have less than 128 triangles? (Ashasekayi Ra)
# How will pivot offset interact with non-cnter-based encroachment detection?
# How about some havok cloth? Just get Falcon to do it. Thats what he does, right? 
# Which is a better idea, doing your own collision boxes, or having SL do them for you? How harsh is the penalty for doing your own?
# Any more info about a finalized ARC system that incorporates mesh av's?
==Meeting Notes ==
*[2011/03/21 11:03] Charlar Linden: howdy all
*[2011/03/21 11:03] draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): hey charlar
*[2011/03/21 11:03] Charlar Linden: we'll start in just a sec
*[2011/03/21 11:03] Bunnie Mills: hello
*[2011/03/21 11:04] Gianna Borgnine: hi all
*[2011/03/21 11:04] Bunnie Mills: hi : )
*[2011/03/21 11:04] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Hi Gianna
*[2011/03/21 11:04] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): /me waves to the Lindens
*[2011/03/21 11:04] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello Runitai, I can't see your body..
*[2011/03/21 11:05] Vivienne Daguerre: hello everyone
*[2011/03/21 11:06] Charlar Linden: OK ready?
*[2011/03/21 11:06] Reed (reed.steamroller): everybody remember to put your questions on the agenda
*[2011/03/21 11:06] Charlar Linden: First item: Pending updates to Aditi sim which will cause older existing beta content to fail
*[2011/03/21 11:06] Reed (reed.steamroller): or else we'll have office half hour instead of office hour
*[2011/03/21 11:06] Charlar Linden: haah
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Charlar Linden: Currently we're ignoring degenerate triangles in collision
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I doubt that would happen
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Reed (reed.steamroller): hey nyx can we get a URL for the agenda?
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Aki (aki.shichiroji): I seem to have the wrong link to the agenda on this computer...
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Latif Khalifa: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Nyx_Linden/Mesh_Office_Hours_Agenda
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Charlar Linden: this causes crashes and other behavior which is hard to track down.
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Latif Khalifa: that?
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/UserGroup#March_21.2C_2011
*[2011/03/21 11:07] Latif Khalifa: ah ok
*[2011/03/21 11:08] Charlar Linden: In a couple weeks we're going to turn on the check for those bad collision models
*[2011/03/21 11:08] Aki (aki.shichiroji): that first link is a little confusing. whomever put those questions up there may wish to move them to the second link.
*[2011/03/21 11:08] Charlar Linden: I'll let you know more detail about the timeframe next week.
*[2011/03/21 11:09] Reed (reed.steamroller): that was me and i just did, thanks tho :)
*[2011/03/21 11:09] Charlar Linden: moving on?
*[2011/03/21 11:10] Charlar Linden: Can you give us an update on recent progress and tell us what your current priorities are?
*[2011/03/21 11:10] Nyx Linden: I'm focusing on performance testing, designing some accounting changes, and working on saving upload parameters between logins so you can more easily tweak your uploads
*[2011/03/21 11:10] davep (runitai.linden): fixed some stuff in the advanced importer last week -- LoD generation is more consistent, cancel button is more responsibe when doing physics decomp, won't crash if you cancel before a model finishes loading
*[2011/03/21 11:11] Charlar Linden: Our priorities are testing for regressions as we merge mesh code into trunk. Also looking at UI for uploading.
*[2011/03/21 11:11] davep (runitai.linden): spinner arrows on triangle limit work
*[2011/03/21 11:11] davep (runitai.linden): some depth of field focal point tweaks
*[2011/03/21 11:11] Vivienne Daguerre: sounds great
*[2011/03/21 11:11] Charlar Linden: related question: Is there anything in particular that you need us to test?
*[2011/03/21 11:12] davep (runitai.linden): there are going to be a lot of simulator deploys coming up
*[2011/03/21 11:12] Charlar Linden: Bang on the sim, and general regressions
*[2011/03/21 11:12] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): umm
*[2011/03/21 11:13] Charlar Linden: while waiting of yellow - Are we there yet?
*[2011/03/21 11:13] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I wouldn't mind seeing the mCollar* bones having a look taken at them
*[2011/03/21 11:13] Charlar Linden: of=for
*[2011/03/21 11:13] davep (runitai.linden): so banging on the simulator would be a good thing -- for example, prep just noticed a bug where the physical simulation of a prim doesn't respect pivot offsets
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I know I added it to a meeting agenda a couple weeks ago, but best I got was IMing Prep
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Prep Linden: Yeah the latest sim deploy has played havoc with the assets that contain pivot points.
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Charlar Linden: Tiberious - you want to add that to the agenda?
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Prep Linden: Yellow: is there a jira assoicated with the mcollar issue?
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): no there isn't
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Drongle McMahon: It made everything grey too.
*[2011/03/21 11:14] Prep Linden: yellow: I also need an asset :-)
*[2011/03/21 11:15] Charlar Linden: We're looking at the texture issue now
*[2011/03/21 11:15] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ...we went through this last time too. Thanks to the crap I had to deal with after my last jira entry, I'm done using that :¬ø
*[2011/03/21 11:15] Rex Cronon: what is the problem? i came here a few minutes earlier and viewer crashed
*[2011/03/21 11:16] Prep Linden: Yellow: ok, email it to me.
*[2011/03/21 11:16] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): Prep: the asset isn't a problem
*[2011/03/21 11:16] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): hell, my current avatar displays that problem
*[2011/03/21 11:16] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I can e-mail the mesh to you if you'd like
*[2011/03/21 11:17] Reed (reed.steamroller): davep, your av looks neat, but i can't really tell what you are
*[2011/03/21 11:17] Rex Cronon: it seems that lldatapacketbinarybuffer::verifylength: bufferoverflow
*[2011/03/21 11:17] davep (runitai.linden): Reed: just sort of stapled together
*[2011/03/21 11:17] Prep Linden: yellow: that would be great - and please provide me with a summary of the issue.
*[2011/03/21 11:17] Charlar Linden: ok, rather than spend our time on just Tiberious issue, let's move on...
*[2011/03/21 11:18] Charlar Linden: next item: New streaming costs are in wiki and viewer. Are they showing on (a) edit floater, (b) upload floater?
*[2011/03/21 11:18] Vivienne Daguerre: Are we there yet?
*[2011/03/21 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah seriously, i've got to pee
*[2011/03/21 11:18] Reed (reed.steamroller): wee need to get there soon
*[2011/03/21 11:18] davep (runitai.linden): depends on the sim -- some of the sims are running a newer deploy
*[2011/03/21 11:18] davep (runitai.linden): and they're not showing up in the importer yet
*[2011/03/21 11:19] Charlar Linden: vivienne - nope. Reed - keep holding it. I'm not stopping this car for you again.
*[2011/03/21 11:19] Vivienne Daguerre: grins... thank you
*[2011/03/21 11:19] davep (runitai.linden): but the number in develop->show info->show render info should be accurate
*[2011/03/21 11:19] Nyx Linden: Reed - don't maks me turn this car around! :)
*[2011/03/21 11:19] davep (runitai.linden): I've got a pretty graph
*[2011/03/21 11:19] Drongle McMahon: OK, Daveo, is scale factor = 2?
*[2011/03/21 11:19] davep (runitai.linden): let me attach it to CTS-205
*[2011/03/21 11:20] Charlar Linden: next one:Rumor: Mesh is on hold indefinitely. True or False? If so, why?
*[2011/03/21 11:20] Drongle McMahon: I made some ugly graphs!
*[2011/03/21 11:20] Charlar Linden: False, and why? Because mesh is to cool to put on hold
*[2011/03/21 11:20] NyuNyu Kimono: hehehhee
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Aki (aki.shichiroji): /me wishes people would stop feeding the rumour mill.
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Charlar Linden: Need better rumours than that
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Reed (reed.steamroller): good to hear
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): /me agrees with Aki.
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Latif Khalifa: free lindens!
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Latif Khalifa: or linden enlargement? ;) from your wealthy friend in nigeria ;)
*[2011/03/21 11:21] Charlar Linden: next: New viewer is having problems loading meshes and textures :(
*[2011/03/21 11:22] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): damn right. I mean, I don't think mesh is 100% ready yet, but that's something that we know you'll have to get right pretty much first time
*[2011/03/21 11:22] Reed (reed.steamroller): mesh HAS been put on hold before, just ask davep
*[2011/03/21 11:22] Reed (reed.steamroller): :)
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Aki (aki.shichiroji): AnuAmun: please refer to the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/UserGroup#March_21.2C_2011
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Nyx Linden: AnuAmun - currently talking about the recent problems with loading meshes and textures
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Nyx Linden: but see the agenda for other topics
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Charlar Linden: We are working on those issues, thanks for all the reports. Please keep them coming.
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Reed (reed.steamroller): recent as in this viewer specifically
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Reed (reed.steamroller): last week's didn't have the problem
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Rex Cronon: those recent problems seems to crash viewer 1.23:(
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Reed (reed.steamroller): i make a point of dling the new one right before OH
*[2011/03/21 11:23] Nyx Linden: texture loading actually appears to be server-related, likely
*[2011/03/21 11:23] davep (runitai.linden): pretty graph: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-205
*[2011/03/21 11:24] Nyx Linden: but we're investigating both of these :)
*[2011/03/21 11:24] Reed (reed.steamroller): i had to relog to see myself and others who were wearing mesh attatchments
*[2011/03/21 11:24] Reed (reed.steamroller): and my house's textures didn't load until i selected it
*[2011/03/21 11:24] Nyx Linden: yep, they're both known issues, we're looking into both of them :)
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Reed (reed.steamroller): you guys got some 'splainin' to do
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Reed (reed.steamroller): k
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Nyx Linden: one of these days reed - straight to the moon!
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Nyx Linden: :)
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Charlar Linden: next: Can we get a check box in the preferences menu for focal blur (on/off)?
*[2011/03/21 11:25] davep (runitai.linden): yup
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Drongle McMahon: Davep ... graph. scale=64m...is that radius=64m, or bbox=64x64x64?
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Reed (reed.steamroller): davep, thanks
*[2011/03/21 11:25] Reed (reed.steamroller): that would be great
*[2011/03/21 11:25] davep (runitai.linden): drongle: radius = 64m, so it's misleading
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Tammy Nowotny: is voice being used?
*[2011/03/21 11:26] davep (runitai.linden): muahahaha
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Reed (reed.steamroller): tammy, no
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): No tammy
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Nyx Linden: text only please Tammy :)
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Tammy Nowotny: cool, Thanks
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Charlar Linden: Next: Offset pivot is strange (CTS-498, CTS-500).
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Reed (reed.steamroller): i mean you CAN talk, but the LL's are on their own private call
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Reed (reed.steamroller): probably laffing at us
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Reed (reed.steamroller): :(
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Prep Linden: With respect to CTS-500, there were some recent changes to our rez pipeline and that introduced the disconnect between the physics shape and renderable shape.
*[2011/03/21 11:26] Charlar Linden: only you reed
*[2011/03/21 11:27] Charlar Linden: we use text so we can post the notes.
*[2011/03/21 11:27] Prep Linden: I also imagine that CTS-498 is also caused by some recent simulator work.
*[2011/03/21 11:27] Charlar Linden: I think the next item is related to the one we're discussing...
*[2011/03/21 11:28] Charlar Linden: The mesh pivot point change is not acting as expected (at least not on models created in Blender). If you place the AssetPivot object in a position relative to your model where you need it, it gives unexpected results on upload. (Ashasekayi Ra) Forum discussion: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Changing-Pivot-Point/td-p/750457
*[2011/03/21 11:28] Prep Linden: Yeah - I intend to add the additional functionality of using the origin of the geometry in the .dae (the pink point in the blender window).
*[2011/03/21 11:29] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Ah, that sounds great. Thanks. :)
*[2011/03/21 11:29] Prep Linden: That should make it alot easier to set them up.
*[2011/03/21 11:29] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Yes.. much, much easier.
*[2011/03/21 11:29] Bunnie Mills: instead of the AssetPivot object ?
*[2011/03/21 11:29] Drongle McMahon: Ah. That's great, Prep.
*[2011/03/21 11:30] Prep Linden: Thanks for the feedback - it was really helpful.
*[2011/03/21 11:30] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): that's a good thing
*[2011/03/21 11:30] Drongle McMahon: Having either option shjould please ever5yone.
*[2011/03/21 11:30] Charlar Linden: next one...
*[2011/03/21 11:30] Charlar Linden: Does llmesh support arbitrary bones- basically I'm asking is, does LL just need to support it in the client for custom bones to work? llanim seems to be ready for any new bones, but I don't know about llmesh. -- Raz
*[2011/03/21 11:31] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): it means we'll just be able to upload it and go. Place all the pieces at the same point, and watch it all fit together perfectly :3
*[2011/03/21 11:31] Drongle McMahon: ie both options!
*[2011/03/21 11:31] davep (runitai.linden): no, not yet -- and we don't really use the "LLMesh" class from the SL avatar for user generated meshes
*[2011/03/21 11:31] Rex Cronon: .
*[2011/03/21 11:31] Latif Khalifa: I guess the question was about llmesh binary asset format. is it extensible to add support for that in the future?
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Latif Khalifa: (whithout breaking all existing content)
*[2011/03/21 11:32] davep (runitai.linden): oh, yeah
*[2011/03/21 11:32] davep (runitai.linden): it's extensible for all sorts of things -- pretty future proof
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Charlar Linden: next...
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Latif Khalifa: cool
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Charlar Linden: Do you need LOD if you have less than 128 triangles? (Ashasekayi Ra)
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Nyx Linden: we aren't forcing you to LOD anything at this point
*[2011/03/21 11:32] Nyx Linden: but we give you a cost benefit to including good LODs
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Drongle McMahon: You just pay more!
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Nyx Linden: 128 triangles is pretty low so the cost should be pretty low
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): hmm...
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Nyx Linden: you could certainly include a planar or box-representation of the object
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): So, there is no min value any longer?
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Rex Cronon: .
*[2011/03/21 11:33] Nyx Linden: Asha - there's not a solid requirement for how much your LODs need to reduce detail by
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): would it be better to ask "will the client not try generating lower LODs if the highest is 128 or less?"
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Nyx Linden: thus there's no min value either.
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Drongle McMahon: The auto-LOD goes right down to a 2-sided triangle!
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Ok gotcha
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): 'cause I've seen the uploader try to suggest things that are downright ugly
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Yes, I've seen that Drongle.
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Nyx Linden: yeah, you don't have to accept the output of the automatic LODs though :)
*[2011/03/21 11:34] Nyx Linden: they're just suggestions
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): yeah
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): That's what I was getting at
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Nyx Linden: you can clear them out or tweak the triangle counts
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): no...
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): er now
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): LODs do have to be half of the higher one yes?
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Nyx Linden: no
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Oh?
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Nyx Linden: they have to be less than the higher one
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Nyx Linden: if you make it more than half though the object will cost more
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): I didn't realize that had changed.
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): my question, in regards to prim costs and LODs... what happens if you get a mesh down to under one prim?
*[2011/03/21 11:35] davep (runitai.linden): Asha: if you look at the graph on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-205
*[2011/03/21 11:35] Drongle McMahon: <= I think Nyx
*[2011/03/21 11:36] davep (runitai.linden): you'll see that reducing by 3x for each LoD gives you a huge discount on prim cost
*[2011/03/21 11:36] davep (runitai.linden): compared to reducing by half
*[2011/03/21 11:36] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Thanks guys. That cleared up a lot.
*[2011/03/21 11:36] davep (runitai.linden): so it's up to you if you think it's worth it
*[2011/03/21 11:36] Nyx Linden: so the better your LODs the cheaper your objects will be :)
*[2011/03/21 11:36] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah reducing by 3x and having it not look like crap
*[2011/03/21 11:36] Nyx Linden: you strke the balance between prim cost and detail
*[2011/03/21 11:36] Reed (reed.steamroller): now that is a challenge.
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): yeah
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Vincent Nacon: for non-artist, yup :)
*[2011/03/21 11:37] davep (runitai.linden): Reed: youre house is actually a really good example of good LoD
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah i tried really really hard
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Reed (reed.steamroller): was not easy
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Nyx Linden: <3 seeing good examples of LOD
*[2011/03/21 11:37] davep (runitai.linden): (the oriental looking one in the mesh-zeum)
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Charlar Linden: ok, next item: How will pivot offset interact with non-cnter-based encroachment detection?
*[2011/03/21 11:37] Reed (reed.steamroller): the problems i'm running into now are with bounding boxes.... phys is weird
*[2011/03/21 11:38] Prep Linden: Currently - it probably doesn't handle it well. Actually I think Dan's going to be testing this one in short order... so we'll know in short order what needs to change code side.
*[2011/03/21 11:38] Drongle McMahon: Yes. I can't get inside my gallery any nmore.
*[2011/03/21 11:38] Charlar Linden: next: How about some havok cloth? Just get Falcon to do it. Thats what he does, right?
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): yes
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): havok cloth
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): lol
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): for like
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): hair
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): and flags
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Charlar Linden: Falcon does many things. A cloth solution is something we've talked about alot.
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): ...considering the meshes I plan to use the most won't be rezzed very often, I'm thinking no LOD (only ~2000 triangles anyway) and simple one-hull physics is good enough for me
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): and leaves
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): and stuff like that
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): just give it a low poly limit
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Charlar Linden: I can't really say what the priority is, and currently we're all focused on shipping mesh
*[2011/03/21 11:39] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): ARGGH. id rather have like some kind of hinge thing then cloth
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Racush (racush.cheeky): maybe one thats using OpenCL as an option??
*[2011/03/21 11:39] Reed (reed.steamroller): like max 128 vert for cloth enabled objects
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Nyx Linden: Yellow - you really want to render 2000 triangles when your object is a small dot on the horizon?
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Reed (reed.steamroller): lower even 128 is pretty high
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Nyx Linden: you can do that, but the cost will be pretty high....
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Charlar Linden: We'll start taking your feedback on cloth as soon as we're bit further along on mesh.
*[2011/03/21 11:40] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): i mean if you want to destroy performance then cloth would be the one surfire way to do it
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Charlar Linden: I don't know yet if it's really the next most important thing.
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Reed (reed.steamroller): a bit further along as in when its released?
*[2011/03/21 11:40] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): Nyx: I mean they're intende dto be worn meshes
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Reed (reed.steamroller): MATERIALS ARE THE NEXT MOST IMPORTANT THING
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Reed (reed.steamroller): write that down
*[2011/03/21 11:41] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): agree
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Bloodsong Termagant: im still waiting for flexi sculpties. :X
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Racush (racush.cheeky): yes
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Nyx Linden: Yellow - even worn, if the avatar is far away from the camera it still has situations where it should only take up a handful of pixels.
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Charlar Linden: Sorry Reed, I couldn't hear you. Can you speak up next time? :-)
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Agreed on materials
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Vincent Nacon: forget it, Bloodsong. :P
*[2011/03/21 11:41] Bloodsong Termagant: ::sigh::
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Nyx Linden: Yellow - also in professionally made characters the *highest* LOD is under 10K, so a non-LODed 2K attachment makes me nervous
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Bloodsong Termagant: isnt one flexi sculpty better than 20 flexi cylinders?
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Charlar Linden: let's move on...
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Charlar Linden: Which is a better idea, doing your own collision boxes, or having SL do them for you? How harsh is the penalty for doing your own?
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Reed (reed.steamroller): if you guys do something like SL enterprise2 instead of materials, it wasn't me who came to LL and peed on the front door.
*[2011/03/21 11:42] davep (runitai.linden): depends on how complex your physics box is -- the "optimal" thing to do is created a low poly mesh that approximates your physics shape and then use the physics tab in the importer to convert that into the smallest set of convex hulls possible. You can also build your physics shape out of 100% transparent prims, link the mesh object to those prims, and set the mesh object's physics shape type to "none." This is good if you want to use a lot of analytical shapes (perfectly circular cylinders, perfectly round spheres, boxes with no cuts or tapers, etc). Basically, you'll have to experiment with what you're building to find out what works best for what you're trying to build.
*[2011/03/21 11:42] Vincent Nacon: you might want to raise the standard "professional" polycount up to 20k
*[2011/03/21 11:43] Vincent Nacon: 10k is like quake 3 era
*[2011/03/21 11:43] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): it depends if by professonial you mean "current video games"
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Vincent Nacon: but yeah, make me nerous for non-professional artists
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Reed (reed.steamroller): erm
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Vincent Nacon: at least the max would be around 300k (255 prims)
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Aki (aki.shichiroji): -_-
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Reed (reed.steamroller): crysis character poly counts are around 15 k
*[2011/03/21 11:44] Reed (reed.steamroller): thats pretty professional
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): good lord...
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Vincent Nacon: crysis 2, catch up!
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Vincent Nacon: :)
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Reed (reed.steamroller): not out yet!
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Vincent Nacon: I know
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Reed (reed.steamroller): doesn't count!
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Vincent Nacon: ...yet
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Reed (reed.steamroller): god i'll need another computer for that game
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Vincent Nacon: sorry, carry on
*[2011/03/21 11:45] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): and if we had a different polygon type, I could cut this av down about half
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Bloodsong Termagant: are you guys talking polygons like dae triangles or the mesh with quads?
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Reed (reed.steamroller): dragon age 2 just came out and i doubt their polycounts went over 15k
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I'm talking triangles
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Reed (reed.steamroller): quads are triangles
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Reed (reed.steamroller): just a particular arangment of triangles.
*[2011/03/21 11:46] Vincent Nacon: if anything... we need tessellation system + Displacement map
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Bloodsong Termagant: yah, but my 10k of quads comes out to 20k of triangles. so i'm askin how you're counting.
*[2011/03/21 11:47] SMILE (sigma.avro): is there a new beta meshUI before shiping ?
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Vincent Nacon: which handles LOD and graphic setting better
*[2011/03/21 11:47] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): no matter what the lindens do pepole are still going to make 40K outfits and sell them to people who will then complain about how sl is so laggy :P
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Vincent Nacon: yup
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Nyx Linden: we'll see about that ac14 :)
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Vincent Nacon: that's my fear
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Nyx Linden: I take that as a challenge :)
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Vincent Nacon: you will see, Nyx
*[2011/03/21 11:47] davep (runitai.linden): well, 1 quad is 2 triangles
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Vincent Nacon: there's no doubt about it
*[2011/03/21 11:47] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I'd love to have a "line" kind of geometry...
*[2011/03/21 11:48] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah people will do that, and then other people WON'T make crap instead and their stuff will sell more.
*[2011/03/21 11:48] davep (runitai.linden): capitalism, get used to it
*[2011/03/21 11:48] Vincent Nacon: yup
*[2011/03/21 11:48] Reed (reed.steamroller): yep
*[2011/03/21 11:48] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): lol
*[2011/03/21 11:48] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): it will happen no matter what because the person complaining will have a comptuer they bought form walmart for 200$ 3 years ago
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Rex Cronon: i don't think that wallmart ever sold computers for 200$
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Reed (reed.steamroller): yes well these people are already complaining due to prim complexity, so no use in worrying about them anymore than we already have.
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): (where you have, say, hard edges, showing as a line of X thickness, no matter how close or far away you are to it)
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Vincent Nacon: I still think we should have a hard limit on polygon count but could do more with Displacement Map via tessellation system, which won't kill people with lower PC spec because it won't render
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Vivienne Daguerre: on the last viewer this dress rezzed on the ground cost only 11 prims, and the detail is just fine
*[2011/03/21 11:49] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): two words - hardware refresh. only problem is... they may not refresh to another computer :P
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Vivienne Daguerre: but I am making a more complex men's outfit with lots of buckles and straps, so I will be interested to see what it comes in at
*[2011/03/21 11:50] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): Im trying as hard as possible to reduce prim count and render cost as much as possible since my stuff needs to be rezzed out. but i fear pepole who make wearables will go hog wild.
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Reed (reed.steamroller): anymore info about ARC?
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Reed (reed.steamroller): is it finalized?
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Reed (reed.steamroller): still working on it?
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Nyx Linden: not finalized yet reed - but working on it :)
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Reed (reed.steamroller): kk
*[2011/03/21 11:50] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): /me kicks his stomach section for having to be close to a thousand triangles when much fewer would be ued with those line polys he mentioned
*[2011/03/21 11:51] Nyx Linden: going to be a focus for me next sprint :)
*[2011/03/21 11:51] Vincent Nacon: Oh and of course... start updating SL's videocard drivers list with newer models and increase RAM memories more than 512mb for crying out loud.
*[2011/03/21 11:51] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah whats with the 512 vid ram limit?
*[2011/03/21 11:51] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): yes please. i have 2g worth of vram X.O
*[2011/03/21 11:51] Vincent Nacon: my videocard's Ram has 2GB and it's being trottled at 512mb :/
*[2011/03/21 11:51] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): That's a good question.
*[2011/03/21 11:52] davep (runitai.linden): On the subject of what you can do with good LoD and skinning: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82734
*[2011/03/21 11:52] davep (runitai.linden): ~700 tris looks good for a mid/low LoD
*[2011/03/21 11:52] Reed (reed.steamroller): you can practically hear their brains thinking about that one
*[2011/03/21 11:52] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): its 1GB in firestorm „ã°
*[2011/03/21 11:52] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): oh yes, and a 'halo' or 'always-facing-view' prim type would go further in reducing polycounts here :3
*[2011/03/21 11:52] Nyx Linden: 700 triangles and a single 128x128 texture map <3
*[2011/03/21 11:53] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): yeah, sprites would be nice
*[2011/03/21 11:53] Vincent Nacon: we already have them.... called Particles
*[2011/03/21 11:53] Charlar Linden: OK, we seem to be spinning down here. I think this meeting is wrapping up.
*[2011/03/21 11:53] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): I've got 6 particle generators using "follow source", and the constant refreshing of them wastes polys
*[2011/03/21 11:53] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): yah I know we have them as particles... but it would be nicer not to have it as a particle :)
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Vincent Nacon: :P
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Reed (reed.steamroller): yeah
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Vincent Nacon: true
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): agreed
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Reed (reed.steamroller): a true sprite
*[2011/03/21 11:54] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): could be interesting
*[2011/03/21 11:54] SMILE (sigma.avro): this is named "brainstorming"
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Reed (reed.steamroller): davep whatever happened to metaball particals?
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Yellow Alloy (tiberious.neruda): a true sprite could even be animated :3
*[2011/03/21 11:54] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): espeically with animated textures
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): was one of the first things I ever scripted, trying to make a sprite out of a particle script
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Charlar Linden: We're going to go back to work on fixing the texture issue people are seeing, as well as workign on mesh.
*[2011/03/21 11:54] Vincent Nacon: but seriously... what's going on with the 512mb VRam limit?
*[2011/03/21 11:55] Reed (reed.steamroller): ya rlly
*[2011/03/21 11:55] davep (runitai.linden): http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81789
*[2011/03/21 11:55] davep (runitai.linden): 8K polys
*[2011/03/21 11:55] Aki (aki.shichiroji): probably something to take to the viewer people.
*[2011/03/21 11:55] Vincent Nacon: you don't have to answer that now but have someone look at it
*[2011/03/21 11:55] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): the cement in the code says "for performance reasons"
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): ya I use particles to do what I had once done with sprites with my candle flames
*[2011/03/21 11:56] davep (runitai.linden): (granted, we need support for normal maps for this to look good in SL)
*[2011/03/21 11:56] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): comment*
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Reed (reed.steamroller): davep i was just about to call you out on that
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): yes, normal maps! :)
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): /me wants
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Reed (reed.steamroller): yes
*[2011/03/21 11:56] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): lets atleast get the mesh first
*[2011/03/21 11:56] SMILE (sigma.avro): yupa
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Vincent Nacon: dang right we do, Runitai
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Nyx Linden: mesh first of course :)
*[2011/03/21 11:56] Reed (reed.steamroller): materials or somebody, i'm not saying who, will pee on the LL front door
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Reed (reed.steamroller): of course nyx
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): lol
*[2011/03/21 11:57] davep (runitai.linden): it's SF, pee on the front door is par for the course
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Supercalifragilistic (mel.primswitch): hahaha
*[2011/03/21 11:57] NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): get the blocks out and then they can work on the paint :P
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Charlar Linden: luckily it rains a lot here
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Reed (reed.steamroller): fine then, poo it is!
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Charlar Linden: and on that note
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Charlar Linden: the meeting is over
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Charlar Linden: thanks everyone!
*[2011/03/21 11:57] Aki (aki.shichiroji): Thanks for the meeting
*[2011/03/21 11:57] And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): thx for your time
*[2011/03/21 11:58] oobscure (opensource.obscure): thanks Lindens. Bye everybody!
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Reed (reed.steamroller): thanks Lindens
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Supercalifragilistic (mel.primswitch): much appreciated as always
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Charlar Linden: thanks for your time
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Œ•œÄŒ±œÑŒØŒ± ŒöŒ±ŒªŒªŒπœÉœÑœé (hypatia.callisto): thanks Charlar and everyone
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Racush (racush.cheeky): Bye!
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Tammy Nowotny: I herad about what happened at SLCC a few years ago, although the only one I went to (2010) was pretty mellow... I witnessed no inappropriate urination
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Prep Linden: later folks -- good feedback!
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Charlar Linden: ciao!
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Aki (aki.shichiroji): off to another meeting. Have a nice day all :)
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Eleanora Newell: ty
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Latif Khalifa: take care
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Vivienne Daguerre: thanks for all your hard work!
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Vincent Nacon: keep it up the good work
*[2011/03/21 11:58] Tammy Nowotny: TYVM!
*[2011/03/21 11:59] Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Take care all :)
*[2011/03/21 11:59] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
*[2011/03/21 11:59] Tammy Nowotny: tc & be well
*[2011/03/21 11:59] Drongle McMahon: Till next week everyone...
*[2011/03/21 11:59] Nyx Linden: thanks for coming everyone!
*[2011/03/21 11:59] davep (runitai.linden): later!