Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2012-03-22

Category:Beta Server Office Hours - Minutes
This meeting was held on March 22, 2012
== Agenda ==
=== Updates ===
* Second Life Server Channel
* No main channel release this week. 
** No RC code from last week so nothing to promote for this week.
* BlueSteel RC Channel
** Return of Threaded Region Crossing code!
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/12#12.03.20.251556
* LeTigre RC Channel
** Return of Threaded Region Crossing code!
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/12#12.03.20.251556
* Magnum RC Channel
** Return of Threaded Region Crossing code!
** https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/12#12.03.20.251556
* Region Uptime
** Coyot is here.
* Pathfinding Live Beta on AGNI
** If you have a full region that you own you can apply to have the region added to the public beta
** email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com
** Include your account name and region you want added to the beta.
** Please email from the email address on your account
** We will follow up with you in email.
=== Transcript ===
Transcript of Oskar Linden's Server Beta User Group for March 22, 2012:
* [15:00] Oskar Linden: What is up my peoples?
* [15:00] Theresa Tennyson: Hi Oskar!
* [15:01] FadeOut Razorfen: oh hai
* [15:01] Siana Gearz: first stage is in april or so.
* [15:01] Homeless: Hi everyone!
* [15:01] Draconis Neurocam: hello oskar
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: we'll let people have a few minutes to get here
* [15:01] Oskar Linden: how's your week going?
* [15:01] Homeless: went by too fast
* [15:01] Draconis Neurocam: going alright
* [15:01] Fancy Greeter: Coyot Linden has arrived!
* [15:02] Davido Chrome: Horrible.
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: flip is happy
* [15:02] Davido Chrome: Flip flips.
* [15:02] Oskar Linden: go sit in the pool flip
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: Oh there it goes
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: Yay I can do more FPS now!
* [15:02] Flip Idlemind: (Flips Per Second)
* [15:03] Coyot Linden: haha
* [15:03] Davido Chrome: XD̈́
* [15:03] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi blinks.
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: this is my favorite meeting of the week
* [15:03] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: My viewer isn't making a log ... what the hell ...
* [15:03] Theresa Tennyson: Awww!
* [15:03] Draconis Neurocam: cause you get to see so many bright and shining faces
* [15:03] Oskar Linden: I feel like bringing treats
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: like icecream for everyone
* [15:04] Flip Idlemind: Or cookies
* [15:04] Flip Idlemind: Or
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: or popcorn
* [15:04] Homeless: pizza
* [15:04] Flip Idlemind: Cookie flavored ice cream
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: oh right
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: guess what the Seattle office just bought
* [15:04] Fancy Greeter: Maestro Linden has arrived!
* [15:04] Flip Idlemind: Starbucks?
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: A CORNDOG MAKING MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
* [15:04] Homeless: haha nice
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: we can have fresh corndogs on demand now
* [15:04] Flip Idlemind: woooooo!
* [15:04] Oskar Linden: it's going to be glorious!
* [15:04] Johan Laurasia: Life is good
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: we can also make cheesesticks
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: I'm already corny on demand ;)
* [15:05] Theresa Tennyson: Do you have to be Premium to get those?
* [15:05] Siana Gearz: what is a corndog?
* [15:05] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi doesn't have those in England.
* [15:05] Draconis Neurocam: does it make veggie corndogs?
* [15:05] Homeless: they need to buy a gym now to offset the impending weight gains
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: oh come on Siana
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: http://cdn.funcheap.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/10corndog_jonathunder11.jpg
* [15:05] Oskar Linden: http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/kitchen/e75b/
* [15:05] Flip Idlemind: A corn dog is a hot dog sausage coated in a thick layer of cornmeal batter and deep fried in oil
* [15:05] Moundsa Mayo: Weinerschnitzel on a stick mit coat
* [15:05] Coyot Linden: batter coated, deep fried hot dogs
* [15:05] Flip Idlemind: Wikipedia!
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: in Japan they call corndogs amerikan doggu
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: lol, Mayo
* [15:06] Coyot Linden: not an amerikan inu?
* [15:06] Johan Laurasia: Sort of a foreman grill for corn dogs
* [15:06] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, we don't have those here in the UK. Never seen them. :p
* [15:06] Siana Gearz: i don't know what cornmeal is.
* [15:06] Moundsa Mayo: Like Pigs In A Blanket, Siana, only not quite B^D
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: so sad Sahk
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: it's like the most delicious thing ever
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: my one weakness
* [15:06] Oskar Linden: my achilles heel
* [15:06] Lares Carter: Hey everyone, I am a bit late *curses daylight saving time*
* [15:07] Flip Idlemind: We stalled for you
* [15:07] Moundsa Mayo: MUST mix yellow mustard and catsup on them!
* [15:07] Flip Idlemind: With corndog talk
* [15:07] Coyot Linden: I thought your achilles heel was.... oh, nvm
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: tell me about it Lares
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: have a corndog
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: ok let's get this party started
* [15:07] FadeOut Razorfen: mmm, just 26 bucks, I think its something lifeless scripter could use
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: thank you all for coming
* [15:07] Moundsa Mayo: (If yer all out of Veietnam Tuong Ot Toi)
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: that is the agenda
* [15:07] Oskar Linden: let me ask a question
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: given that we were all on one codebase for the last week
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: how was stability?
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: good
* [15:08] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Had a sim down for 3 hours earlier. Another crashed twice.
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: crash rates very low
* [15:08] Coyot Linden: overall
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: there is one griefing crash vector that we are following closely
* [15:08] Theresa Tennyson: Kinda awesome. Even the sim crossing JIRA people seemed happy.
* [15:08] Flip Idlemind: I haven't seen a sim crash in...some period of time I can't even wrap my head around
* [15:08] Oskar Linden: oh that reminds me
* [15:08] Larre Leborski: Ok.. I'm back :-)
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Simon has a message for you all
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: "Please STOP crashing sims"
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: :-)
* [15:09] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: LOL
* [15:09] Draconis Neurocam: lol
* [15:09] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
* [15:09] Johan Laurasia: even "Crash Me"?
* [15:09] Nalates Urriah: The people on Vortex are crying about griefing in that sandbox...
* [15:09] Oskar Linden: Crash Me isn't live on AGNI anymore
* [15:09] Rex Cronon: i got here just in time to hear that important message:)
* [15:09] Moundsa Mayo: Why does he LET them crash if he doesn't like it? B^D
* [15:09] Johan Laurasia: oh really, didn't realize it went away
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: It did Johan
* [15:10] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Yeah, I think the Furnation sims earlier were griefer-crashed.
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: easier to test on ADITI
* [15:10] Flip Idlemind: OH
* [15:10] Flip Idlemind: That reminds me
* [15:10] Flip Idlemind: To tell you
* [15:10] Moundsa Mayo: All sims on Aditi have a subtext "Crash Me"?
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: it was quite a hiccup to our progress having each RC fail 2 weeks ago
* [15:10] Flip Idlemind: to remind me
* [15:10] Flip Idlemind: to tell you something
* [15:10] Oskar Linden: this stability is nice but the downtime on forward progress is a big setback
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: that said we worked out the kinks in the Threaded Region Crossing code
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: so that is back in RC on each of the channels
* [15:11] Rex Cronon: were those crashes done on purpose or unintentional due to testing?
* [15:11] Moundsa Mayo: But compared to history, SL is still doing better and better on a weekly basis in many areas.
* [15:11] Oskar Linden: the rebalancing project helped a lot
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we're finalizing a blog post now
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: it should come out next week
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: as far as releases this week go not a lot to mention
* [15:12] Moundsa Mayo: Must ... communicate ... carefully B^D
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: each RC has the stage 1 Threaded Region Crossing code
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: so bugs will be found in region crossing type situations
* [15:12] Oskar Linden: we've been slowly polishing this code most of this year
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: it should be ready soon
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: Does that include catty-corner crossings or just the perpendicular ones?
* [15:13] TankMaster Finesmith: cant wait ㋡
* [15:13] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. I did get logged out while crossing over into a region on the LeTigre channel.
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: you can't catty corner cross
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: not possible
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: we have 8-way now, I thought
* [15:13] Oskar Linden: you have to go into a neighboring region first
* [15:13] Coyot Linden: I could be wrong
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: 8 way comms is different than region crossings
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: ah
* [15:14] Coyot Linden: okay, thanks
* [15:14] Moundsa Mayo: Is there any noticeable difference for crossings from an RC to main channel sim (or the converse)?
* [15:14] Rex Cronon: we don't cut them, just cross them
* [15:14] Gooden Uggla: i think it was that you can see them now, but crossing is still the old way
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: getting an avatar from one region to a catty corner requires a neighbor
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: even if for just a moment
* [15:14] Nalates Urriah: So, you can't get there from here witout going somewhere else first...
* [15:14] Draconis Neurocam: even in a scripted jump oskar?
* [15:14] Oskar Linden: you tell me draconis
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: I don't script jump
* [15:15] Johan Laurasia: "You can't get there from here" never more true.
* [15:15] Rickk Turbo: hmm am i late?
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: yes Rickk
* [15:15] Oskar Linden: back of the class for you
* [15:15] Rickk Turbo: k
* [15:15] Coyot Linden: How is a "scripted jump oskar" different from a "scripted jump draconis" ?
* [15:16] Coyot Linden: ;)
* [15:16] Moundsa Mayo: One moves Oskar, the other Drac
* [15:16] Coyot Linden: It's just a jump to the left...
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: no
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: do NOT START
* [15:16] Oskar LindenOskar Linden muzzles coyot
* [15:16] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: xD
* [15:16] Moundsa Mayo: heeee
* [15:16] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:17] Oskar LindenOskar Linden unmuzzles coyot
* [15:17] Moundsa Mayo: I got my sheet of plastic right here
* [15:17] Oskar Linden: ok coyot tell us about uptime
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: so
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: good news:
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: rebalance is great!
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: bad news:
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: As oskar mentioned, velocity is low
* [15:17] Siana Gearz: .oO(what is rebalance)
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: not a lot to promote
* [15:17] Davido Chrome: But it's the Pelvic thruuuuust, that drives everyone insaaaaane!
* [15:17] Coyot Linden: HAHA
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: this has given us
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: so
* [15:18] Flip Idlemind: Is it the thing where sims next to eachother are (hopefully) also on servers next to eachother
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: the opportunity to see how long the sims
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: can go without restarting them
* [15:18] Oskar Linden: yes Flip
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: you may have noticed that main grid has gone nearly
* [15:18] Coyot Linden: three weeks without a restart or deploy
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: yet crash rates are low
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: this is TEH OSSM
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: A huge stability win
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: not so much win for product, though :)
* [15:19] Moundsa Mayo: The sky might fall!
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: heh
* [15:19] Coyot Linden: Siana:
* [15:20] Homeless: The sky is always falling.
* [15:20] Oskar Linden: it was good we got a chance to observe though
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: briefly we rearranged the grid
* [15:20] Siana Gearz: ah coyot, i already got an explaination.
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: kk
* [15:20] Coyot Linden: <EOF>
* [15:20] FadeOut Razorfen: lorca isn't gonna be on this meeting ? :c i've added 2 questions about pathfinding
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: as annoying as the decrease in velocity is this was a great opportunity to get some multie week stability observations done
* [15:21] NeoBokrug Elytis: I also have questions about pathfinding that aren't answered on the JIRA
* [15:21] Coyot Linden: yep, the next time this happens, I'm going on vacation. ;)
* [15:21] Oskar Linden: fancy that. I am about to start talking about pathfinding
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: we're close to release
* [15:22] NeoBokrug Elytis: With so many JIRAs open on it?
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: but we want to get some more polishing done before we go to a full RC
* [15:22] Oskar Linden: we're getting there :-p
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: we're setting up a beta opportunity program on AGNI
* [15:23] NeoBokrug Elytis: I am under the impression they want it done at the end of this month. I saw that Amazon premium area announcement and I thought they were pushing faster than testing would allow
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: for region owners who want to volunteer their personal regions
* [15:23] Siana Gearz: will there be a discount?
* [15:23] Oskar Linden: discount for what?
* [15:24] TankMaster Finesmith: free bragging rights
* [15:24] Gooden Uggla: lol like that'll happen...
* [15:24] FadeOut Razorfen: nope, greed is good
* [15:24] Siana Gearz: cause what if person's content gets damaged because they chose beta software.
* [15:24] Siana Gearz: risk-reward.
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: we would work to remedy situations where this code caused irreversible damage
* [15:25] NeoBokrug Elytis: Good point though, and I know you have no say in this Oskar, but try to prod the higher ups for LL to give discounted regions for testing. I know some estate managers would hop on that opportunity.
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: I'll toss that idea around and see who bites
* [15:25] Oskar Linden: but it is outside the scope for this event
* [15:26] Gooden Uggla: oskar do you need adjacent sims for this?
* [15:26] NeoBokrug Elytis: Yeah. I *MAY* subject one of my regions to pathfinding, only if all the residents were okay with it.
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: so if you have a full region (or homestead probably) that you own (non mainland) and you want to try out the pathfinding stuff we can put your regions on there in a special case kind of channel
* [15:26] Oskar Linden: email pathfinding-beta@lindenlab.com
* [15:27] FadeOut Razorfen: free or nothing ! :D
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: Include your account name and region you want added to the beta.
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: Please email from the email address on your account so we can verify eligibility
* [15:27] Oskar Linden: We will follow up with you in email.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: I'll also be getting an AGNI sandbox up and running
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: I'll probably use the Snack sandboxes
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: they could use some traffic
* [15:28] Coyot Linden: um, maybe on Snack
* [15:28] Siana Gearz: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^
* [15:28] Siana Gearz: ^_^ *Nahm Nahm Nahm!* ^_^
* [15:28] Siana Gearz: om nom snack. good thing i just ate something cause you keep mentioning food.
* [15:28] Oskar Linden: it's not "on snack" coyot
* [15:28] Homeless: free corndogs would probably help also
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: we'll talk in IRC
* [15:29] Coyot Linden: sure
* [15:29] Rickk Turbo: mm cookies
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: anyway
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: pathfinding questions
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: maestro can you answer any?
* [15:29] Flip Idlemind: Speaking of following up, does anyone here know (and I understand if no one does) when the volunteers for the "Experience" beta (or whatever we're calling it) are likely to get followed-up with
* [15:29] NeoBokrug Elytis: Can the pathfinding JIRA be looked at, cleaned up, questions answered?
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: oops
* [15:29] Oskar Linden: maestro?
* [15:29] Maestro Linden: sorry was talking with Davido about something
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: Yes, I know some things about pathfinding
* [15:30] Maestro Linden: Neo, you mean the PATHBUG project?
* [15:30] FadeOut Razorfen: Whats up with PATHBUG-51[c] - Very rough rotation transitions while avoiding dynamic obstacles and characters while they change their movement. This is the only issue in Pathfinding that causes much trouble for me, because there is no way to work around it.
* [15:30] FadeOut Razorfen: 9 9 9 9 9 9 9
* [15:30] NeoBokrug Elytis: Maestro: yes
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: I believe lorca is collecting volunteer info for the beta on agni
* [15:31] Maestro Linden: FadeOut, we looked at your video but didn't quite understand the issue
* [15:31] FadeOut Razorfen: um, the gnome has very low rotation velocity limits
* [15:32] FadeOut Razorfen: and when i cross the road in his way
* [15:32] FadeOut Razorfen: he starts to twitch
* [15:32] FadeOut Razorfen: with insane rotation speed
* [15:32] Oskar Linden: he freaks out?
* [15:32] FadeOut Razorfen: yep
* [15:32] Draconis Neurocam: sounds like an issue with normalizing values, or lack thereof
* [15:33] Coyot Linden: Why did the gnome cross the road?
* [15:33] Maestro LindenMaestro Linden watches the gnome video again
* [15:33] Gooden Uggla: to logon to travelocity?
* [15:34] Coyot Linden: heh
* [15:34] Maestro Linden: you mean the gnome that's standing still and 'flips' back and forth?
* [15:34] FadeOut Razorfen: sorry crashed, can anybody link me the log of what was happening ?
* [15:34] Oskar Linden: btw Vektor Linden says hi!
* [15:35] Sovereign Engineer: sentt
* [15:35] Oskar Linden: FadeOut I'll post the transcript after the meeting
* [15:35] FadeOut Razorfen: oh, yep
* [15:35] FadeOut Razorfen: no gnome was avoiding me
* [15:35] FadeOut Razorfen: at the time when he started to flip back and forth
* [15:36] Draconis Neurocam: oh wow
* [15:36] Draconis Neurocam: vektor
* [15:36] FadeOut Razorfen: gnome was moving and avoiding me
* [15:36] Rex Cronon: a flipping gnome?haha. that is funny:)
* [15:36] Oskar Linden: Falcon said he was gonna show up to answer questions
* [15:37] Oskar Linden: I guess he forgot
* [15:37] Moundsa Mayo: Cow tipping, gnome flipping, it's all in poor taste.
* [15:37] Grid Crash Protection Box: a42msnmr Broono, you are now shielded from the effects of any Grid crashes which might occur!
* [15:37] Maestro Linden: hm, well there's no minimum turn radius set
* [15:37] Coyot Linden: oh give me a gnome...
* [15:37] Coyot Linden: a gnome of my own...
* [15:38] Grid Crash Protection Box: a42msnmr Broono, you are no longer protected from the vagaries of the Grid - beware!
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: and even with low CHARACTER_MAX_ACCEL and CHARACTER_MAX_DECEL, he could change his vel from like <0.1,0,0> to <-0.1,0,0> pretty quickly, reversing his direction
* [15:38] FadeOut Razorfen: sec
* [15:38] Homeless: I'm also gnomeless
* [15:38] Maestro Linden: characters always face in their direction of movement
* [15:38] NeoBokrug Elytis: Any plans for toggles for "strafing"?
* [15:38] NeoBokrug Elytis: strafe
* [15:38] NeoBokrug Elytis: blargh
* [15:39] Maestro Linden: that's more of a Falcon question, Neo; I'm not sure if that's even supported by Havok AI
* [15:39] FadeOut Razorfen: CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED, 0.5 ,
 CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_RADIUS, 0.5
* [15:39] FadeOut Razorfen: but i have those values in
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: hm so the first is "The character's maximum speed while turning--note that this is only loosely enforced (i.e., a character may turn at higher speeds under certain conditions)
"
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: the gnome was probably moving under 0.3m/s when he turned
* [15:40] Maestro Linden: maybe
* [15:40] FadeOut Razorfen: yep
* [15:40] FadeOut Razorfen: thats true
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: and max turn radius is.. "The character's turn radius when traveling at CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_SPEED
"
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: there's no minimum radius available in the options
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: hmm
* [15:41] Maestro Linden: I don't know, maybe we need to get falcon in
* [15:42] Johan Laurasia: so what would happen if you set the turn radius max to 0?
* [15:42] Oskar Linden: maestro is there a PF UG?
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: Johan: He would always spin in place then, maybe?
* [15:43] Maestro Linden: nope, there's no pathfinding usergroup
* [15:43] Moundsa Mayo: man, that isopropyl stinks when you heat it up!
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: I'll talk to lorca about setting up a weekly one til it ships
* [15:43] Flip Idlemind: Ok so I haz question
* [15:43] Oskar Linden: might be useful
* [15:43] Moundsa Mayo: SWW!!
* [15:43] Flip Idlemind: There's a message called "ObjectUpdate"
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: And its wiki page says "OwnerID is used to allow muting of attached sounds and particles only. "
* [15:44] Maestro Linden: It's not quite clear to me if CHARACTER_MAX_TURN_RADIUS is a general upper bound on turn radius or what
* [15:44] Flip Idlemind: Is there any reason not to send OwnerID for all objects
* [15:44] Rex Cronon: if u have a spin radius, u must have a spin center. so, what is the max distace from center of object where u can put the spin center?
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: Also, the pathfinding team has been distracted by this wilderness launch, so that's why we've been a little slow on PATHBUG Jira responsiveness
* [15:45] xstorm Radek: sorry im so late
* [15:45] Maestro Linden: I think spin center is always on the center of the character, which is always the the root prim's position, Rex
* [15:46] Maestro Linden: but of course the root prim can be some transparent box, and you could have the visible object linked as child prims...
* [15:46] NeoBokrug Elytis: Oh, pathfinding question: Will there be more than just 2d axis navigation?
* [15:46] NeoBokrug Elytis: For instnace, flying or swimming things?
* [15:46] Rex Cronon: thanks. i guess if will have to do some testing
* [15:47] Nalates Urriah: and may besome x & y axis roation?
* [15:47] xstorm Radek: Second Life 3.3.1 (251341) Mar 15 2012 13:55:46 (Project Viewer - Pathfinding)
* [15:47] xstorm Radek: oopppss sorry
* [15:47] Maestro Linden: Not at this point, Neo. It wouldn't be impossible to add support for 3d navigation in freespace, but that would be a whole other big project
* [15:48] Maestro Linden: you can use trickery like wavy transparent surfaces in the sky for faking the effect in birds, though
* [15:48] Johan Laurasia: Some volumetric effects can be achieved though as Maestro pointed out
* [15:48] Johan Laurasia: using offset linking
* [15:48] Maestro Linden: yes, that too
* [15:49] Maestro Linden: the wilderness fireflies use something like that
* [15:49] NeoBokrug Elytis: Well yeah. Just another hack though. :)
* [15:49] Rex Cronon: in the demo video the pathfinding object goes up a spiral staircase. doesn't that mean it is doind 3d navigation?
* [15:49] Maestro Linden: yeah, you can have multiple nav mesh levels
* [15:49] Rex Cronon: it is doing*
* [15:49] NeoBokrug Elytis: Oh, I'm asking about non-planar, navigating in a volume of something
* [15:50] Siana Gearz: it's navigating on a flat surface, though one which is not topologically flat.
* [15:50] Maestro Linden: I don't know if you'd call that "3d" though, since it's following a 2d surface..
* [15:50] xstorm Radek: i have seen that done
* [15:50] Davido Chrome: Maestro, if you could just look at my last IM question quickly. I am falling asleep on my chair...
* [15:51] xstorm Radek: i have seen some one in the sandbox do 3D pathfinding
* [15:51] arton Rotaru: how about the terrible terrain behavior on pathtest regions? ground vehicles tunneling, get stuck into the terrain, bullets fly straight thruogh the terrain, returning an error msg. avatar feet sink into the terrain...
* [15:51] Oskar LindenOskar Linden puts Davido to sleep
* [15:52] Davido Chrome: ZZZZZZZZzzzzz
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: is that during good performance too?
* [15:52] arton Rotaru: all 4 regions empty
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: arton, I mean, does that only happen when SimFPS is bad, or when it's good as well?
* [15:52] Maestro Linden: okay
* [15:52] Davido Chrome: Maestro; I mean, the very last, about continuing at a later date. I really AM exhausted.
* [15:53] arton Rotaru: I'll check SimFPS next time
* [15:53] Maestro Linden: the physics representation of the terrain is totally different with pathfinding, so there could be new issues
* [15:53] arton Rotaru: yep I know
* [15:53] arton Rotaru: I think it's pretty bad atm
* [15:54] arton Rotaru: you don't have to go very fast, to get stuck into the terrain
* [15:54] NeoBokrug Elytis: Without debugging on, how hard is pathfinding on the physics engine?
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: if you use the pathfinding viewer, you can see how much physics time each character is using
* [15:55] NeoBokrug Elytis: Oh sweet.
* [15:55] Johan Laurasia: Speaking of the viewer side changes, when is that viewer coming out?
* [15:55] Maestro Linden: It's already out..
* [15:56] Johan Laurasia: Oh, missed that..
* [15:56] Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
* [15:56] Oskar Linden: :-D
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: So, ObjectUpdate? OwnerID?
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: Any reason that can't be sent with all objects?
* [15:58] Draconis Neurocam: i wish i could edit that page the links to the development viewer are out of date, and don't work for the new link in that format
* [15:58] Coyot Linden: cya, I gotta bail... have a great week everyone.
* [15:58] Flip Idlemind: Baiii
* [15:58] Oskar Linden: cya coyot
* [15:58] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks for your time, Coyot!
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: tc coyoty
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: I don't know, flip. we also don't send out object name etc with object updates
* [15:59] Rex Cronon: coyot*
* [15:59] Coyot Linden: yw, bye!
* [15:59] Maestro Linden: usually that information is just sent when you select it
* [15:59] Larre Leborski: TC Coyot :-)
* [16:00] Flip Idlemind: I was thinking, if an object's owner could be known before it's ever created (viewer) side, then it would be possible to pre-derender objects owned by griefers
* [16:00] TankMaster Finesmith: tc cyote
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: well guys thanks for coming out
* [16:00] Oskar Linden: and gals :-p
* [16:00] arton Rotaru: :-P
* [16:00] Moundsa Mayo: Oskar, Maestro, thanks for your time!
* [16:00] Lares Carter: Thank you for the meeting :)
* [16:00] Larre Leborski: Indeed.. thank you Oskar :-)
* [16:00] Maestro Linden: I suppose that could be nice.. but being battered by an invisible object would have its own challenges :)
* [16:00] Nalates Urriah: thx
* [16:01] Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming everybody!
* [16:01] Larre Leborski: and thank you Maestro as well :-)
* [16:01] Johan Laurasia: Thanks guys
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: tc oskar, maestro
* [16:01] Flip Idlemind: But...if it's a choice between being battered or being graphics-crashed...
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: tc everybody
* [16:01] Rex Cronon: and have a nice day:)
* [16:01] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: FLIP - RUnitai added protection against graphics laggers/crashers into viewmaster.
* [16:01] arton Rotaru: you too Rex :D
* [16:01] TankMaster Finesmith: enjoy the cnow, oskar
* [16:01] TankMaster Finesmith: snow*
* [16:02] Sahkolihaa Contepomi: Needs manual adjusting due to what it does, though.
* [16:02] Oskar Linden: have a good weekend everyone!
* [16:02] TankMaster Finesmith: you to!
* [16:02] Larre Leborski: ok.. will do :-)
* [16:03] Sahkolihaa ContepomiSahkolihaa Contepomi waves to Lindens. :o
* [16:03] arton Rotaru: will try
* [16:03] Larre Leborski: and you to Oskar :-)
* [16:03] arton Rotaru: ^^