Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2014.06.24

Simulator_User_Group
Prev 2014.06.17	Next 2014.07.01
== List of Speakers ==
Darien Caldwell 	Hexapoda 	Inara Pey
Jenna Felton 	Jonathan Yap 	Kelly Linden
Lucia Nightfire 	Mona Eberhardt	Motor Loon
Nalates Urriah 	Oz Linden 	Qie Niangao
Rex Cronon 	Simon Linden 	Tankmaster Finesmith
Theresa Tennyson	Yuzuru Jewell 	
== Transcript ==
[12:00] Simon Linden: Hello everyone, let's get started with server news ....
[12:00] Jenna Felton: hello Whirly
[12:00] Simon Linden: The deploys for this week are documented here : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Deploys-for-the-week-of-2014-06-23/td-p/2755942
[12:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: heya Oz
[12:01] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Oz.
[12:01] Mona Eberhardt: Hi Oz.
[12:01] Oz Linden: hi all
[12:01] Nalates Urriah: Hi all...
[12:01] Simon Linden: The main channel got the inventory service update, which needs the current release viewer to take advantage of it
[12:01] Simon Linden: The new LSL materials functions will go out tomorrow onto BlueSteel and LeTigre
[12:01] Tankmaster Finesmith: or the next yet unreleased TPV :P
[12:02] Oz Linden: so release already :-)
[12:02] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Get merging Tank!
[12:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: kitty is doin it!
[12:02] Simon Linden: Right
[12:02] Simon Linden: Magnum retains the experience tools project
[12:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: (cus yeah, RLVa nightmare)
[12:02] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[12:02] Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Drongle, Ron, Rex.
[12:02] Tankmaster Finesmith: hiya rex
[12:03] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[12:03] Rex Cronon: hi tankmaster
[12:03] Simon Linden: so ... that's it for my news ... Oz, do you have anything to add?
[12:03] Oz Linden: Not really....
[12:03] Oz Linden: no bombshells to drop today :-)
[12:03] Simon Linden: ok ... well, things have been pretty quiet, so if there are questions or topics you want to bring up, now's the time
[12:03] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[12:03] Lucia Nightfire: inb4 hypo SL 2.0 suggestion box
[12:04] Simon Linden: (that's for everyone)
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:04] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Are we allowed to know what the "Includes a new anti-griefing measure" is for now its on main grid? :D
[12:04] Rex Cronon: there were bombs dropped recently?
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: I know what it is, heh
[12:04] Lucia Nightfire: I know what it doesn't fix too
[12:04] Theresa Tennyson: Not me - I dont' have VICE.
[12:04] Simon Linden: I'd rather not get into details on that one, Furly
[12:05] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:05] Tankmaster Finesmith: "I cannot confirm nor deny that any bugs actually got fixed" :P
[12:05] Simon Linden: if there were bugs, that is :P
[12:05] Kriss (krisshall): something may or may not have happened, or not
[12:06] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:06] Lucia Nightfire: that just means I can't publicly bitch about the shortcomings of said "fix", heh
[12:06] Rex Cronon: i guess since now ll is working on sl 3.0 there will be no new features?
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: 3.0?
[12:07] Oz Linden: You guess incorrectly, Rex
[12:07] Lucia Nightfire: here it comes
[12:07] Tankmaster Finesmith: baker! :D
[12:07] Rex Cronon: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2014/06/linden-lab-building-second-life-2.html#comments
[12:07] Simon Linden: Rex - we will have new features when they come out, like LSL materials support is tomorrow
[12:08] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Exp tools soon too! \o/
[12:08] Baker (baker.linden): hello everyone :)
[12:08] Nalates Urriah: Rex I have links to a number Ebbe's comments in the SL Forum here: http://blog.nalates.net/2014/06/24/more-information-on-second-life-2-0/
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: theres still group banz coming out
[12:08] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): eya Baker
[12:08] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): +H
[12:08] Simon Linden: The sky is not falling, unless someone is dropping a megaprim on us
[12:08] Hexapoda: Hello birdy Baker.
[12:08] Rex Cronon: ok. this still won't be abandoned
[12:08] Tankmaster Finesmith: is that my queue?
[12:08] Rex Cronon: hi baker
[12:08] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): A chicken just fell out of the sky. Does that count?
[12:09] Motor Loon: seems close enough to me
[12:09] Mona Eberhardt: But Oz, SL *is* dead; so many forumites say so.
[12:09] Simon Linden: Maybe we should see what he says.... how's things, Baker?
[12:09] Baker (baker.linden): things are great!
[12:09] Qie Niangao: Oh, speaking of new features, just have to register disappointment that experience tools won't be for Mainland initially, if ever. (Not saying it's a bad decision, just... owning all this Mainland is looking dumber by the day.)
[12:09] Kriss (krisshall): a flying KFC could explain tht, although then you need something to explain a flying KFC
[12:09] Oz Linden: Drongle suggested that if we ever did decide to shut down SL, we should really simulate the sky falling... which falls into the category "Great Suggestions We Won't Need"
[12:09] Baker (baker.linden): We officially released a Group Ban Project Viewer today!
[12:09] Baker (baker.linden): well, I thnk we did that today
[12:09] Nalates Urriah: Rex, the answers are not that simple. If this, then if that... you need to read up and form yur opinion.
[12:10] Tankmaster Finesmith: wahoo!
[12:10] Tankmaster Finesmith: i think
[12:10] Baker (baker.linden): http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Alternate_Viewers
[12:10] Tankmaster Finesmith: therefor I am
[12:10] Baker (baker.linden): yuuup
[12:10] Baker (baker.linden): there it is :)
[12:10] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): yay!
[12:11] Oz Linden: Qie - Experience tools will work on Mainland
[12:11] Oz Linden: they'll have to be whitelisted
[12:11] Tankmaster Finesmith: at the parcle level
[12:11] Oz Linden: right
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: when do you start assigning assigners, heh
[12:11] Lucia Nightfire: *creators
[12:12] Lucia Nightfire: wth the correct term is
[12:12] Simon Linden: experiencers?
[12:12] Oz Linden: tbd ... but you'll hear soon
[12:12] Mona Eberhardt: Oz, what are the requirements for someone to try out the experience tools?
[12:12] Baker (baker.linden): the backend is deployed grid-wide as well, so feel free to start banning people
[12:12] Jenna Felton: will it be announced in LL blog?
[12:12] Oz Linden: yes
[12:12] Jenna Felton: (experience tools) . ao, ok :)
[12:13] Qie Niangao: Hm. That's... confusing. I'll have to re-read that, to see if there's still a way I can get permissions in Tuliptree and use them all around the SLRR... or VRC land next to the SLRR. Or anything.
[12:13] Jenna Felton: thank you Oz
[12:13] Kriss (krisshall): creators/experiencers -> (test) subjects?
[12:13] Lucia Nightfire: you'll get it on aditi first I'd believe
[12:14] Lucia Nightfire: Considered candidates will all need land too.
[12:15] Oz Linden: Using them all around the SLRR would require a key with more scope than the ones we will be using initially
[12:16] Lucia Nightfire: I have a worry with grid wide exp
[12:16] Lucia Nightfire: but I guess I can't ask yet about it
[12:16] Darien Caldwell: So it would be correct to say an 'experience' can't be tied to an object, but is instead bound to land?
[12:16] Tankmaster Finesmith: you can opt out viewer side of experences
[12:16] Qie Niangao: Okay. Maybe that's how I confused myself, but anyway, thanks, Oz.
[12:16] Oz Linden: It's both, Darien...
[12:17] Nalates Urriah: From what I read a script can be keyed to an experience.
[12:17] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Didnt they say at the TPV meeting that there would be no grid wide experiences to start with?
[12:17] Oz Linden: The key is part of the object, but must be allowed on the land
[12:17] Darien Caldwell: well, objects only though wouldn't work I gather.
[12:17] Lucia Nightfire: what I heard, but things change
[12:17] Darien Caldwell: yes, ok
[12:17] Inara Pey: That was my understanding, Whirls
[12:18] Oz Linden: For now we will not issue grid wide keys
[12:19] Mona Eberhardt: Is there going to be a limit on the number of regions a key will support?
[12:19] Nalates Urriah: That eliminates another Griefer Monday surprise.
[12:19] Jenna Felton: so a script can reqiest user permisions from LL server by using that key instead of requesting the user?
[12:19] Lucia Nightfire: hopefully what will eliminate griefers will be a pay amount for creation and/or premium status for creation
[12:19] Simon Linden: No Jenna - the user must still grant them, and can revoke them
[12:20] Hexapoda: What is Bakers next project, any plans for more neat functions?
[12:20] Jenna Felton: ok, thank you
[12:20] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Has anyone written the documentation up yet? I don't suppose theres a chance we can see that before its released?
[12:20] Baker (baker.linden): Maybe
[12:20] Baker (baker.linden): ;)
[12:20] Motor Loon: "Removing all lag from SL" right? °?°
[12:20] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:20] Baker (baker.linden): really though, I'm working on something but I can't talk about it
[12:20] Baker (baker.linden): it is still for SL
[12:20] Oz Linden: No you can't Whirly... because if you can see it , then it's been released :-)
[12:20] Darien Caldwell: hehe
[12:21] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Gah details
[12:21] Baker (baker.linden): you'll get details when I'm allowed to give them
[12:21] Baker (baker.linden): :)
[12:21] Hexapoda: Horray! Secretes are the best gifts.
[12:21] Oz Linden: you won't have to wait long, and yes, it's been written
[12:21] Tankmaster Finesmith posts to SLU "Baker is working on something for SL"
[12:21] Jenna Felton: pitty. but on the other hand, i am always too late on things new to SL, so i am ok to see docs after release as long i can see docs :)
[12:22] Baker (baker.linden): lol tank
[12:22] Tankmaster Finesmith: oh wait, i forgot the 42 exclamation marks typical of posts there, my bad
[12:22] Baker (baker.linden): HA
[12:23] Lucia Nightfire: as long as it doesn't get to far set in stone before user/content creator input is considered
[12:23] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:23] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:23] Motor Loon: Looks like Bonadea just used a cattle prod on Baker °?°
[12:24] Baker (baker.linden): it happens regularly
[12:24] Oz Linden: I expect that like the rest of SL, experience tools will continue to evolve
[12:24] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): anyone for fried chicken rofl
[12:24] Tankmaster Finesmith: nom nom
[12:26] Nalates Urriah: Since it is quite, how long has LL been working on the VW?
[12:26] Nalates Urriah: new VW
[12:27] Jenna Felton: what is VW?
[12:27] Hexapoda: Btw, is it posible to get a function that can flip normals in a mesh and a function for scale along normals?
[12:27] Seewo (siwo): vw?
[12:27] Darien Caldwell: VW=Virtual World
[12:27] Jenna Felton: you mean that SL2.0?
[12:27] Hexapoda: Then 1999
[12:27] Mona Eberhardt: VW = the cars formerly known as KdF-Wagen.
[12:27] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[12:28] Jenna Felton: yes Mona :)
[12:28] Tankmaster Finesmith: more than a day
[12:28] Simon Linden: I don't think that's possible, Hexapoda
[12:28] Hexapoda: Okay.
[12:28] Baker (baker.linden): Nal, yes.
[12:28] Baker (baker.linden): :P
[12:28] Simon Linden: Nal, I think people have been talking about that for about 11 years
[12:29] Motor Loon: lol
[12:29] Motor Loon: sounds about right
[12:29] Hexapoda: But it is seldom things are impossible when they are digital.
[12:29] Nalates Urriah: lol... yeah, well that's talking. But actual doing with funding?
[12:29] Oz Linden: Everything we've ever done is SL was part of the learning process that informs it
[12:29] Tankmaster Finesmith: LL hasnt started active development on the new grid yet
[12:30] Oz Linden: Even if we could answer that, Nal (and we won't), it's not a clean line... it would be very hard to pick a date
[12:30] Theresa Tennyson hopes the new "grid" isn't a grid at all. The plane parked below is not the one that started the trip today.
[12:30] Tankmaster Finesmith: they are going to hire about 40-50 people to start the main development cycle
[12:31] Nalates Urriah: I can understand that Oz. I think the Lab will continue to learn for SL 1.0 while they build 2.0. -- Would it be safe to say over a year in the sence of actually writing code specifically for 2.0?
[12:31] Hexapoda: SL 2.0 is just a project name, when it come and users can emigrate it will still be SL.
[12:31] Kriss (krisshall): will the new 2.0 one be using polygons or voxels for its graphics? although it mightn't be a server question i guess
[12:31] Nalates Urriah: ^for SL = from SL^
[12:31] Tankmaster Finesmith: nal, what make you think they have been writing code yet?
[12:31] Simon Linden: Those of you that have poked into the SL code know how much some things are deeply entrenched there ... from the network protocol to region size to your AV structure etc etc etc. There's a lot to be said for starting with a clean slate
[12:31] Nalates Urriah: Good point Tank.
[12:32] Tankmaster Finesmith: they are in the planing stage atm, so most likely little to no code yet
[12:32] Simon Linden: The weather in SL is nice today
[12:33] Tankmaster Finesmith: agreed ?
[12:33] Jenna Felton gigles
[12:33] Nalates Urriah: :)
[12:33] Oz Linden: Folks... you're talking to the wrong people. We are the people focused on Second Life (well, we are some of them). Even if someone at the Lab were ready to answer those questions (and they probably are not), it wouldn't be us.
[12:33] Qie Niangao: "Clean slate"... yeah, but for all the tangle, there's a decade of tweaks hidden in the existing code. It will be hard to even remember which things matter for a successful virtual world experience.
[12:33] Theresa Tennyson: There was some sort of disturbance over Hardknott.
[12:33] Kriss (krisshall): a fresh break would let you start over and do some new things, also to experiment
[12:33] Kelly Linden: very nice indeed.
[12:33] Rex Cronon: wouldn't have been more easier to gradually replace the spaghety code rather than starting from zero?
[12:33] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): clean slate is the best idea ever
[12:33] Yuzuru Jewell: Can we keep my name, land and friendship to SL 2.0?
[12:33] Theresa Tennyson: They've been doing that for 11 years, Rex.\
[12:33] Simon Linden: It's all documented in the code, Qie :)
[12:33] Motor Loon: If anything I'm surpriced we made it over 10 years down the road before the "clean slate" option was launched
[12:34] Oz Linden: Probably not, Rex
[12:34] Darien Caldwell: clearing a tangle is harder than it sounds
[12:34] Qie Niangao: Simon, I was a coder once. :p
[12:34] Hexapoda: 10 CLR
[12:34] Qie Niangao: I know what's documented in code. :p
[12:34] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): i call dibs on bonadea
[12:34] Hexapoda: First line of code for SL 2.0
[12:34] Kriss (krisshall): sweep it into a bin, and create a new tangle
[12:34] Simon Linden: Then you understand my comment
[12:34] Rex Cronon: actaully they have been adding new stuff mostly
[12:34] Qie Niangao: :D
[12:35] Theresa Tennyson: So Simon and Baker are Second LIfe Lindens and not Second Second Life Lindens, officially?
[12:35] Mona Eberhardt: Speaking of SL 2.0 and scripting, some people have suggested various non-VW languages as a replacement for LSL. What do you think, Simon?
[12:35] Jonathan Yap: The C# project was almost finished before it was shelved a few years ago Mona
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: In a private discussion, someone I know suggested C#.
[12:36] Hexapoda: Python.
[12:36] Rex Cronon: can we now program in assembly;)
[12:36] Kriss (krisshall): Python == cool
[12:36] Jenna Felton: anything but assembler, Rex
[12:36] Seewo (siwo): and what's bad about LSL? :o
[12:36] Simon Linden: We can't get into who-is-working where, Theresa
[12:36] Kelly Linden: <cough>
[12:36] Lucia Nightfire: lol
[12:36] Mona Eberhardt: Do you think it'd be better if the new virtual world had its own scripting language?
[12:36] Tankmaster Finesmith: i think ebbe mentioned c# was likely, but not garented
[12:36] Jenna Felton: that one scares me to dead
[12:36] Kelly Linden: sorry, something in my throat.
[12:36] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: well in one of Ebbe's Q and As, he stated Mono would stay the core. so whether they go with C# or lay something on top remains to be seen
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: i think for new users C# would be too much
[12:37] Kelly Linden: Oooh, do you have a link to that Darien?
[12:37] Mona Eberhardt: What Darien said.
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: oh, I'd have to find it
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: i read a lot of article
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: articles
[12:37] Tankmaster Finesmith: kelly, was at the TPVM last friday
[12:37] Darien Caldwell: yeah might have been the audio
[12:37] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Yeah
[12:37] Motor Loon: I remember reading that too somewhere
[12:37] Kelly Linden: Cool, I'll need to read up on the transcript if there is one.
[12:38] Tankmaster Finesmith: theres lots
[12:38] Tankmaster Finesmith: we recorded the entire meeting, its on youtube now
[12:38] Tankmaster Finesmith: 2h long :P
[12:38] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): The full video of the meeting is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S-hoXupxXw&feature=youtu.be . Its just over an hour in when Ebbe starts talking about SL2
[12:38] Seewo (siwo): link?
[12:38] Hexapoda: Why do some developers only like 2D? For they can only C# (see flat).
[12:38] Darien Caldwell: lol
[12:38] Nalates Urriah: Ebbe starts at 0:58:00
[12:39] Mona Eberhardt: LSL, despite its limitations, is a workable solution, as its commands explicitly declare what will be done on prims etc... But still, there are many improvements that I'd like to see. For instance, there's no support for tables, and creating dynamic menus is a klutz.
[12:39] Rex Cronon: watching a 2hour video on youtube? that can be quite an experience:)
[12:39] Darien Caldwell: yeah, i agree
[12:39] Kriss (krisshall): dictionaries
[12:39] Darien Caldwell: needs real arrays, and pointers ;p
[12:40] Darien Caldwell: god I miss pointers ;p
[12:40] Oz Linden likes the finite state machine basis of LSL
[12:40] Lucia Nightfire: theres a ton of limitations in many of the oldest function structures themself
[12:40] Mona Eberhardt: And also, since VWs do lend themselves well to providing experiences with NPCs (scripted agents), how about adding support for JADE and FIPA ACL?
[12:40] Kriss (krisshall): finite state is good, but could be done like tables or arrays too (if it isn't, anyway)
[12:41] Qie Niangao: I mumble somewhere: Would be good to see script limits -- so we could have some individual scripts like 1 MB or larger.
[12:41] Mona Eberhardt: FIPA: The Foundation for Intelligent Physical Agents (http://www.fipa.org/)
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: land owner/membership level based resource allowances
[12:42] Mona Eberhardt: And, if I may be so bold, perhaps support for simulation/engineering packages (like the open-source SALOME and OpenCASCADE) could be good.
[12:42] Tankmaster Finesmith: lets also get openCL! :P
[12:42] Lucia Nightfire: you want the ability to fill asim with 15000 physics prims, you better have the owned land sqm and/or highest premium status to be able to rez that many, heh
[12:43] Seewo (siwo): this http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL3 ...it would be perfect
[12:43] Jenna Felton: actually objects in SL are sort of embedded systems and a not-high-program language like LSL is optimal for that imo
[12:43] Motor Loon: I kinda think some of the ideas for improvements has more chance with HiFi rather than SL2.0 - I think we'll see a product more like we know it now, but with those things that have been blocking improvement of efficiency and development being "done right from the start" rather than a big experiment on new ways of "maybe" doing VW.
[12:43] Kriss (krisshall): one problem to opening that up would be you can't predict what people will do with it, like people will find very unpredictable uses for what you give them, what is uncertain, but that they will is certain
[12:43] Jenna Felton: the high programing language like real lists and such needs overheads that the servers cant give
[12:44] Kelly Linden: I don't recall seeing that LSL3 page before.
[12:44] Seewo (siwo): :o
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: true Jenna, but the weak spot has always been interfacing with the operation for 'user facing' scripts.
[12:44] Darien Caldwell: low level isn't good for that
[12:45] Darien Caldwell: while you can build your own interface, it's labor intensive and full of pitfalls
[12:45] Rex Cronon: it will be "fun" to have c#. can u imagine the the things u can do with multiple threads and recursion;)
[12:45] Jenna Felton: what are user facing scripts?
[12:45] Hexapoda: HiFi is to advance to be an hit, LL and SL is more down to earth and that is a winning concept, for the world shall be easy to use for noobs but fun to use for creators.
[12:45] Seewo (siwo): like write bitcoin miner for sl?
[12:46] Tankmaster Finesmith: lol
[12:46] Darien Caldwell: scripts that dont' just operate without user intervention
[12:46] Darien Caldwell: interactive scripts
[12:46] Jenna Felton: ah, the most scripts are written for this purpose
[12:46] Rex Cronon: like doing a ddos...
[12:46] Darien Caldwell: a good number
[12:47] Mona Eberhardt: Also... RLV *should* be part of the next VW's default capabilities.
[12:47] Tankmaster Finesmith: ha no
[12:47] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): lol
[12:47] Simon Linden: I'm going to repeat what Oz said earlier : Folks... you're talking to the wrong people. We are the people focused on Second Life (well, we are some of them)
[12:47] Jenna Felton: because LSL is a embedded systems language, like the most prims in SL are mbedded systems
[12:47] Kriss (krisshall): that snowball that was predicted earlier
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: its teh talk everywhere
[12:48] Lucia Nightfire: you can thank Ebbe
[12:48] Oz Linden: We'd love to hear what you think SL needs... that engineers can do (don't say "tier")
[12:48] Darien Caldwell: hehe
[12:48] Nalates Urriah: Can you say anything about how LL resources are divided up now? 40/60, 20/80...
[12:48] Oz Linden: no, Nal
[12:48] Tankmaster Finesmith: nal, by the time thats stated, it would be out of date at this point
[12:49] Kriss (krisshall): i doubt you can do this with servers, but have you guys thought about adding karma or voting so trolls or such could be more clearly indicated? although it maybe like that ratings thing i read SL had ages ago
[12:49] Kriss (krisshall): that isn't second second life
[12:49] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): make sure bakers chicken tracker works
[12:49] Darien Caldwell: yeah i was here when rating existed, it didn't work
[12:49] Qie Niangao: But it's a bit Red Team vs Blue Team now, right? If SL Classic is way out ahead of SL TNG, come 2018 (say), then something different happens, one suspects.
[12:49] Simon Linden: and, as Ebbe mentioned, we're hiring .... so if you know any awesome coders, send them to our web page
[12:49] Kriss (krisshall): it probably wouldn't even in (moreos forum) places that have, it seems to become a popularity thing
[12:50] Kriss (krisshall): human nature :/
[12:50] Nalates Urriah: k, For thing to fix... it seems like lots of people are taking a heavy performance hit when a region is crowded. Here for instance I drop to 12 FPS. Most of thime I run 30fps
[12:50] Darien Caldwell: i'm considering applying. not sure yet.
[12:50] Kriss (krisshall): *moreso
[12:50] Jonathan Yap: All those jobs are in San Francisco
[12:50] Lucia Nightfire: I'm only qualified for QA support, but can travel anywhere in the US, hegh
[12:51] Kriss (krisshall): although another side to that, something like crowdsource-ish indication of if people are rezzing crashers and such
[12:51] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): ya that is the kicker not everyone want to move
[12:51] Oz Linden: No, Jonathan... most could be at any of our offices
[12:52] Simon Linden: Jonathan - we have other offices too, and those are possible
[12:52] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): where
[12:52] Tankmaster Finesmith: bostin
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: Dallas?
[12:52] Hexapoda: I guess non in Europe :-)
[12:52] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Seattle, Boston & San Fran isn't it?
[12:52] Oz Linden: Boston and Seattle are the two largest ones
[12:52] Simon Linden: The first part of the application process is seeing if you can figure things out on www.lindenlab.com
[12:52] Lucia Nightfire: theres one in the UK too, right?
[12:52] Oz Linden: after SF
[12:53] Simon Linden: No Lucia, no longer
[12:53] Kriss (krisshall): brighton, when there still was, if i recall
[12:53] Jenna Felton: Kriss, there is one, Agent rating facility, but it was deactivated even: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/DATA_RATING
[12:53] Kriss (krisshall): the catch with all that is if you can find decent skilled people, they may have unworkable circumstances, or be too far away
[12:54] Rex Cronon: i assume ll is hiring people for sl2
[12:54] Kriss (krisshall): or perhaps
[12:54] Rex Cronon: i mean to work on sl2
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: yes, rex, or if not, soon
[12:54] Seewo (siwo): oh... I saw this rating flag once... what is (was) it about? :o
[12:54] Hexapoda: LL do more than SL.
[12:54] Tankmaster Finesmith: ebbe i think stated soemthing like 40-50 new positions
[12:54] Kriss (krisshall): and yes, that was the rating thing i was referring to, but i think that concept could have some better uses to it, i doubt it'd be popular in world though
[12:55] Darien Caldwell: used to be people could click on your profile and rate you for building and other qualities. but it really just turned into a popularity contest.
[12:55] Seewo (siwo): ah...
[12:55] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): ????????? :O good no more ratings
[12:55] Jenna Felton: ah
[12:55] Rex Cronon: people were getting paid to rate others...
[12:55] Lucia Nightfire: people would make alts then pay them money to increase their ratings to max
[12:56] Darien Caldwell: yeah in the end ratings had no real correlation to the actual quality being rated.
[12:56] Qie Niangao: Wow. Trying to remember when it seemed to make sense to rate the building skills of the general SL population.
[12:56] Kriss (krisshall): yes, it'd end up becoming that, there's more in here that could happen like that, the worst you have in the place i was thinking of is downvote brigading
[12:56] Jenna Felton: ratings by user can be easilly misused by competitors and griefers
[12:56] Hexapoda: Rate Linden? That would be silly, Baker will win any way.
[12:56] Lucia Nightfire: I miss the old police blotter, heh
[12:56] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): can i suggest a limit on how many alts ppl can make
[12:56] Darien Caldwell: and it was an easy cull when LL needed to lighten load on the database ;)
[12:56] Rex Cronon: would baker win the golden egg in rating;)
[12:56] Oz Linden: unenforceable, Bonadea
[12:56] Mona Eberhardt: What Jenna said. Also, I think alts should not be allowed in the forums (but that's an entirely different matter).
[12:57] Jenna Felton: there is a limit Bonadea, up to 6 avatars
[12:57] Kriss (krisshall): what i was thinking of was like a way of having metadata, or automatic mutes, or an indication that someone is popularly known to be a troll (i had a specific person or two in mind)
[12:57] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): 6?
[12:57] Rex Cronon: we need a copybot police blotter:)
[12:57] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): oops :D
[12:57] Darien Caldwell: it's a soft limit though, based on email address
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: its 5 per household
[12:57] Lucia Nightfire: but its not enforceable
[12:57] Mona Eberhardt: The abolition of the police blotter wasn't a good decision.
[12:57] Kriss (krisshall): although cost-benefit stuff too
[12:57] Jenna Felton: yes i read ybout it somewhere. ok or 5
[12:57] Darien Caldwell: i have so many i lost count ;p
[12:57] Jonathan Yap: There used to be a SL "police blotter"
[12:57] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): ya how is that calculated because between my husband and i we have more than 6 in our household
[12:58] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): lol same. I have loads for testing stuff.
[12:58] Mona Eberhardt: Gameforge has no plans of abolishing the pillory it has for Ikariam.
[12:58] Lucia Nightfire: there is checkign though, esp when land donation comes into play
[12:58] Kriss (krisshall): you could tie rezzing ability in too, or integrate it into perms
[12:58] Jenna Felton: i think they are bound to teh email address, use another and you get next couple of alts
[12:59] Bonadea Cobalt (bonadea.avedon): thats what i mean u can keep creating emails and get 6 per email
[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: *ahem* https://monaeberhardt.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/the-master-account-proposal-revisited/
[12:59] Qie Niangao: (Off to next meeting... Thanks Lindens, and have fun all!)
[12:59] Kriss (krisshall): until we can be somehow made unique online, it wouldn't be too possible, although bitcoin-like ways are interesting (have you do work that costs you to prove uniqueness)
[12:59] Hexapoda: How many alts are okay in SL, I has seen bot groups with over 250 alts.
[12:59] Kriss (krisshall): spammers would be cost the amount they intend to spam, so it negates it
[12:59] Mona Eberhardt: I still believe the master account idea should be looked at again.
[12:59] Jenna Felton: an education class could have 20 avies bound to the same network or even computer and they will be stil no alts, so you can not enforce a limit because you can not check if that are alts or really different residents
[12:59] Lucia Nightfire: idt LL looks at it much unless you're doing mass tier donations for a single group (attempting to get a free sim) heh
[13:00] Oz Linden: Sorry folks... I've got another commitment.
[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: Oh, I know of a few SL trolls that have armies of alts.
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: later Oz
[13:00] Mona Eberhardt: See you, Oz.
[13:00] Tankmaster Finesmith: tc Oz
[13:00] Nalates Urriah: Bye Thx
[13:00] Kriss (krisshall): bye
[13:00] Hexapoda: Laters.
[13:00] Darien Caldwell: snazzy shirt ;p
[13:00] Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you Oz.
[13:00] Furly Wizzle (whirly.fizzle): Ty Oz
[13:00] Chicken Tracker 3000XT: Get Back to your cage chicken!
[13:00] Jenna Felton: take care Oz and have a good week
[13:00] Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for coming out to day and the good discussion
Simulator_User_Group
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