Doc Team/2009-11-25

== Transcript ==
[13:02]	:	Oh that's cool to hear, Joachim, I really enjoyed getting a nice tour there. I also saw it on the Destination Guide!
[13:03]	:	Kate's out today, I'm not sure if Jon and Jeremy can make it... you may be stuck with me.
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	OH JEREMY'S HERE!
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	YAYAYAYA
[13:03]	:	yeah spea k of the devil
[13:03]	:	Say what?
[13:03]	:	hey jeremy :)
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:03]	:	Who be callin' Jeremy a devil? ;)
[13:03]	 	has pinged you.
[13:04]	:	hey everyone :)
[13:04]	:	eh
[13:04]	:	heh
[13:04]	:	rezzing slowly for me
[13:04]	:	think i better relog
[13:04]	:	Hello
[13:04]	:	hiya everyone
[13:04]	:	Hello all.
[13:04]	:	Jeremy is the foremost archiver of our office hours, and we have had many by now! http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
[13:04]	 	has pinged you.
[13:05]	:	So anytime people are like "Why don't Lindens come inworld..." well, we have proof. :D
[13:05]	:	:-D
[13:05]	:	I'm still waiting for textures to load, Region performance is wobbly.
[13:05]	:	At least my hair arrived when I did. LOL
[13:05]	:	But we can still chat! Any questions, concerns, curiosities about Second Life help documentation?
[13:05]	:	TD is down a bit
[13:06]	:	Glad you could join us, Fisher. :D
[13:06]	:	hmmm yeah its around 0.75, still acceptable
[13:06]	:	if it goes lowwer tan .50 then we are in trouble
[13:06]	:	LOL welcome back Darrius .
[13:06]	:	In the Ctrl+Alt+1 panel .. is there a page on the wiki that explains in greater depth where those numbers come from .. and what they might mean?
[13:06]	:	Fisher, wanna tell everyone about what you're working on that's got ya excited?
[13:07]	:	Darrius, try http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Statistics_Bar_Guide ? :)
[13:07]	:	lol
[13:07]	:	I'm working on a bunch of things, Torley
[13:07]	:	Even better, Fisher!
[13:07]	:	Multi-taskin'!
[13:07]	:	Anything in particular, you want to hear about?:
[13:07]	:	:-)
[13:07]	:	oh yeh, all the time
[13:07]	:	What you were last workin' on before ya got here!
[13:07]	:	OH PARTICLES
[13:08]	:	derek
[13:08]	:	Inside LL, is a multi-taskers dream
[13:08]	:	ooo pretty rainbow
[13:08]	:	fly
[13:08]	:	ty
[13:08]	:	Pyogp
[13:08]	:	some selenium
[13:08]	:	TEst plan writing
[13:08]	:	㋡
[13:08]	:	hey everyone
[13:08]	 	Translator: Too many HTTP requests too fast.
[13:08]	:	hi hi
[13:08]	:	hay
[13:08]	:	Same as http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PyOGP ?
[13:09]	:	Yeh, that's the base
[13:09]	:	I'm writing specific automation tests using it and debuggin the implementation at the same time
[13:09]	:	Hello Fisher Linden. Hi Jeremy Linden. Hi Torley Linden
[13:09]	 	has pinged you.
[13:10]	:	Hi everybody
[13:10]	:	Hello!
[13:10]	:	whats up
[13:10]	:	Hello how are you doing peeps
[13:10]	:	Why hythar Elite. :)
[13:10]	:	Kewl, Fisher.
[13:10]	:	Hey Elite
[13:10]	:	㋡
[13:10]	:	Hello Troley, i have allways wanted to say hi
[13:10]	:	So for those of you who're helping other Residents, what kinds of help topics come up the hottest for you? Any noticeables you don't normally see?
[13:10]	:	Very very cool, Toley
[13:10]	:	Why hi to you too Derek!
[13:10]	:	Torley
[13:11]	:	㋡
[13:11]	:	I am... always... gathering tips to share.
[13:11]	:	/me hunts for her noob notes
[13:11]	:	pretty much teh basics torley,new people always ask me how to find items in inventory and stuff, how to change clothes, attachements etc
[13:11]	:	uh hih
[13:11]	:	Heh. "Noob Notes" sounds like a good name for an editorial column.
[13:12]	:	LOL How to unpile from a busy TP location?
[13:12]	:	Good to know Joachim, I have a tip on finding lost objects that've been rezzed inworld coming up...
[13:12]	:	I liked the latest Doc Team post on the SL Blog. :)
[13:12]	:	Yes indeed
[13:12]	:	"Noob Notes"! Heh.
[13:12]	:	Daniel, yeah, Courtney made that one spicy. Hey I'll let her know you liked that.
[13:12]	:	Hello how are you doing gigi
[13:12]	:	oh that would be helpful for me torley, ive lost quite a bit
[13:12]	:	ok, here's what I've noticed.....
[13:12]	:	hellOoOoOoOo!!!!!!!!
[13:12]	:	hi gigi
[13:12]	:	1) the majority of the new people don't know they are getting IMs
[13:12]	:	thanks Torley :)
[13:12]	:	:-D
[13:13]	:	Courtney's fun, she should come by here sometime and say hi to y'all.
[13:13]	:	that tickles gigi
[13:13]	:	:-)
[13:13]	:	2) they don't seem to have a clue how to get back chat
[13:13]	:	*GIGGLES*
[13:13]	:	~= hehe ~=
[13:13]	:	Courtney Linden?
[13:13]	:	lol
[13:13]	:	Hi everyone :-)
[13:13]	:	Leasha, we plan to make that clearer in the future. I know that sounds vague but communication UI and such will get reworked...
[13:13]	:	Yes, Courtney Linden. IM her and ask for her bear if you haven't already.
[13:13]	:	cool
[13:14]	:	oh, the question that always drives me crazy is "how do I play this game?"
[13:14]	:	definitely the wrong idea
[13:14]	:	LOL
[13:14]	:	heh, i get that alot too leasha
[13:14]	:	Hahahaha. Their heart is in the right place but more understanding of how SL works is in order!
[13:14]	:	i thought this was real life
[13:14]	:	"Right-click my avatar, choose pay .. and enter the amount of linden you have."
[13:14]	:	LOL Darrius!
[13:14]	:	and the other was a game
[13:15]	:	GIMME ALL UR L$
[13:15]	:	If there's a place, go there. If there is a number, make it bigger. Unless it's lag.
[13:15]	:	lol
[13:15]	:	Any events coming up in Second Life, Jeremy, Fisher, Torley?
[13:15]	 	has pinged you.
[13:15]	:	TORLEY!!!!!
[13:15]	:	I like to inquire about someone's hopes and dreams.
[13:15]	:	Isn't that about right? :-P
[13:15]	:	i just ask them what they like to do in RL, and that pretty much whatever those interests are, they can do it here too
[13:15]	:	Always, Elite! What are you looking for?
[13:15]	:	sometimes, I think residents are part of the trouble, though. let's say it's your first day and someone says "oh, just rez your AO in a sandbox"... what would you make of that?
[13:15]	:	Nice :)
[13:15]	:	another good ask anyone would'nt dare to ask : "how to survive lags ?"
[13:15]	:	what can we deal with laggy sims?
[13:15]	:	(btw Torley, I've been to that page several times. I need something that tells me what's normal, what's not normal and how changes in sim load/scripts/objects can affect it.)
[13:15]	:	thinks Winterfest09 is coming soon. :)
[13:16]	:	Darrius, ah yes. That should be expanded with further, in-context info.
[13:16]	:	Being able to deduce WHAT IS LAG? is very very important.
[13:16]	:	too many listening scripts?
[13:16]	:	lol
[13:16]	:	Darrius, ever used the Lag Meter?
[13:16]	:	Exactly .. and as a developer, I especially wanna make sure it's not me doing it!
[13:17]	:	Yup, all the time.
[13:17]	:	i think the most common lag is client side
[13:17]	:	It's more on the simple side of things, but yeah, Help > Lag Meter for anyone who doesn't know.
[13:17]	:	<-- propeller head .. I need numbers and dials .. not dashboard lights.
[13:17]	:	i yep and badly designed scripts
[13:17]	:	I used the lag meter in my home brought from XstreetSL
[13:17]	:	i think i have one of those meters too lost in my oversize inventory
[13:18]	:	/me waits for the world to rez
[13:18]	:	Hi Courtney!
[13:18]	:	hey courtney :)
[13:18]	:	I know performance meters for Region owners would be a great boon, too. We do have some capability to show top physical and scripted objects, but I keep hearing requests for more visual means.
[13:18]	:	Hello Marianne and Courtney
[13:18]	:	Hiya!
[13:18]	:	O.o
[13:18]	:	hi Courtney
[13:18]	:	It's Courtney! Ta-da!
[13:18]	:	Hello Courtney
[13:18]	:	Hi courtney Linden!
[13:18]	:	Hello Courtney
[13:18]	:	Hello, everyone!
[13:18]	:	Hey Mari, what's hot in your travels?
[13:18]	:	THIS IS ELITE 3000! 100 CHOIS A GRAND! POWERED UP ALL WAYS! E3K IS ON YOUR SIDE!
[13:19]	:	hey Courtney
[13:19]	:	welcome!
[13:19]	:	Thanks!
[13:19]	:	Purty good. Was checking out the awesomeness of the "1942" sim last night
[13:19]	:	Hello how are you doing Courtney
[13:19]	:	Torley pinged me to stop by and say hi!
[13:19]	:	How's yours?
[13:19]	:	Especially as a parcel owner but not a region owner too Torley. I hate the idea that I might be making life for my fellow residents hell just because I can't see what affects I'm having.
[13:20]	:	If the region owner has to come smack me one .. that's too late IMHO.
[13:20]	:	oh i like that idea darious, maybe some of the estate level tools would be helpful to be made for anyone to see
[13:20]	:	just the ones that list top scripts and such
[13:20]	:	True, Darrius... being aware of what resources you're using, is each of our responsibility. Important to be educated and inform others.
[13:20]	:	Yup .. exactly Joachim.
[13:20]	:	something that would cut town lag: a script editor that detects ang suggests ways to de-lag a script
[13:20]	:	*nods*
[13:20]	:	Yeah there are a bunch of things in the Estate tools right now which are obscured...
[13:20]	:	Hi Everyone
[13:20]	:	yah Darrius I had that prob too . had to rezz and derezz several times My dogs to mind what was lagging the whole sim .
[13:21]	:	Courtney Linden, do u have the linden bear?
[13:21]	:	Hello Zamantha.
[13:21]	:	Hello Zamantha
[13:21]	:	like a script debugger you mean
[13:21]	:	Awhile ago there was a proposed project for a "Optimizing your content, for builders & scripters" (and creators in general, really) but that didn't come to fruition. Maybe it shall, eventually.
[13:21]	:	yes
[13:21]	:	ty
[13:21]	:	or a special kind of compiler
[13:21]	:	oooh, Linden bears? Yes, have some :-)
[13:21]	:	coutney has a nice bear :)
[13:21]	:	yw!
[13:21]	:	Can we offer you resources or help that would speed it to fruition Torley?
[13:22]	:	Aw! Thanks Youri!
[13:22]	:	I <3 Linden Bears :-)
[13:22]	:	it still has a great spot in my collection courtney! :)
[13:22]	:	i have a nice collection of linden bears, anyone linden here wishing to help me add to mine feel free:)
[13:22]	 	gave you FX 2500 v1.0.3 (BOXED).
[13:22]	:	Darrius, thanks for offering. Alas no until we decide more company resources should go towards such a thing, but there's so much to be done.
[13:22]	:	Coolio! Thanks, Courtney :-)
[13:23]	:	*nods* Needless to say I have my preferences .. but that's not a topic for here.
[13:23]	:	Such a project is really cross-departmental @ LL. Many projects in general are. It's like, if we write documentation, it has to be publicized, or no one knows.
[13:23]	:	Day in and day out I hear all sorts of news from folks in one or more of my groups.
[13:23]	:	Thanks, Elite
[13:23]	:	We need to consult Subject Matter Expertises on various things to verify they're accurate. Some things are accurate to begin with but then become out-of-date as time goes by, so it's really continual.
[13:23]	:	ty courtnet
[13:23]	 	
[13:23]	:	Er, I mean "Experts", not "Expertises" in that case. ^_^
[13:23]	:	A Facelight that can sign off?
[13:23]	:	yw!
[13:24]	:	lol
[13:24]	:	I have a comment , request , suggestion re wiki pages .
[13:24]	:	I have to log out in a few minutes. I'm gonna have dinner and yw Fisher Linden and Courtney Linden
[13:24]	:	lol
[13:24]	:	Could all the Irrelevant pages be removed that refer to Mentor so people can find a Mentor easier ,after Dec 11
[13:24]	:	:-)
[13:24]	:	Hey, here's some trivia for all of you: some of the FIRST facelights in Second Life were invented in the Forest of Kahruvel?
[13:24]	:	does the facelight have to change password periodically?
[13:24]	:	I spoke too soon! Gonna log out. bye
[13:24]	:	Courtney, wanna share more about what you've been working on with our peeps?
[13:24]	:	XLR8RRICK, what's irrelevant? More details please?
[13:25]	:	I did not know that...
[13:25]	:	/me puts on her subtle facelight
[13:25]	:	doing a Search for Mentor in the all tab gets a lot of Irrelevant results
[13:26]	:	lol, Dylan Rickenbacker gave me the facelight b/c he said I looked freakishly pale with the older one I had.
[13:26]	:	I thought mentors would disappear ?
[13:26]	:	Mentirs will not disappear
[13:26]	:	I am freakishly pale, nevertheless, but hopefully not blinding people anymore.
[13:27]	:	there will always be new people that need one to one help and training foe second life
[13:27]	:	Not me. I turned off attached lights a loooong time ago
[13:27]	:	/me giggles
[13:27]	:	btw ... will be there any chance to become a mentor after Dec 11th ?
[13:27]	:	the search reaults are page after page of old outdated Mentor programs
[13:27]	:	I've read a note saying that they would be replaced by help on forums or something like that
[13:27]	:	that the best part of it all
[13:27]	:	giving that help to new people
[13:27]	:	Yes, it's true as I mentioned in my blog post the other day about the help ecosystem... helping people will always be relevant. It may have different names and shapes, but really, grows as the world does.
[13:27]	:	not all people like automated help services anyway
[13:27]	:	mentor group will be shut down, or closed to make it easier
[13:28]	:	i made most of my freinds that way
[13:28]	:	XLR8RRICK, anyone can edit Wiki pages to remove outdated stuff and point to current Volunteer programmes. I monitor search trends so if we need to funnel traffic somewhere, we'll take care of that.
[13:28]	:	there are still plenty of nice helpgroups like that out there, like NCI andhelp people inc
[13:28]	:	As the technology grows more and more complex and multi-faceted .. is reducing help really a smart choice?
[13:28]	:	I've never been an official mentor... but that has never stopped me from heading to a 'hub and helping when I have a spare few. I often hit the Bay City area hubs nowadays
[13:28]	:	it creates long term freindships
[13:28]	:	Joachim, yes, they're being encouraged to join the Resident Help Network! Anyone who doesn't understand why should look up Dunbar's Number. :)
[13:28]	:	Thank you
[13:29]	:	oh I wasnt aware of that torley, that sounds like a great idea
[13:29]	:	one to one is cool
[13:29]	:	Darrius, no, which is why we're expanding help. SL Answers, for instance, continues to grow, and that's almost entirely about Residents sharing their collective knowledge.
[13:29]	:	everyone needs to make at least 1 frend when they start sl, it gives them a kind of "hope"
[13:29]	:	Watch for it soon... http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Resident_Help_Network_Portal
[13:29]	:	I agree Derek, even if troubles happen, they have someone they can talk to. Like a priest, but not necessarily religious. Ha ha!
[13:29]	:	That Resident Answers thing... ugg. I tried it a couple of times, but jes didn't like it
[13:29]	:	Was just gonna ask you to post a URL ... stop answering before I ask! LOL
[13:29]	:	so there will be new chances to become a mentor Torley ?
[13:30]	:	they never forget you as well
[13:30]	:	So I stick with inworld helping, which is when folks need it the most anyways
[13:30]	:	Ravid1971Rm, not a mentor in the older sense, but Linden Lab will properly recognize *groups* of Residents who've collectively organized as help teams, yes.
[13:30]	:	I been hearing some other program will be starting up next year, dont know the details but it seems it will also do mentor like things
[13:30]	:	The key thing is, no matter what names are applied to it, there are ALWAYS opportunities to make Second Life better.
[13:31]	:	There's more about the RHN here too: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/volunteers
[13:31]	:	TY Courtney.
[13:31]	:	Sure thing!
[13:31]	:	White tigers are getting bigger by the day
[13:31]	:	thank you Torley .
[13:31]	:	also can start u your own group and do the same as you were doing as mentor
[13:32]	:	Are the groups "targeted" .. meaning those that specialize in newbies and newerbies .. vs. those that help sophisticted users with more in-depth problems?
[13:32]	:	Yep! Good point, Youri!
[13:32]	:	In some ways it parallels Linden Lab's own growth... as things get bigger there's reorganization. It can be disorienting at first but exciting. When groups get too big it's hard to personally know who's involved, and there are so many specific niche interests.
[13:32]	:	Darrius, there already are, and yes, there'll be more recognition of those differing skill levels.
[13:32]	:	I am owner and co owner of 3 Mentor Support groups now
[13:32]	:	*nods*
[13:32]	:	I know various scripters have already formed their own leagues. Some scripters devoted to topics like sci-fi vehicles... they just need to be found easier, really.
[13:33]	:	Working myself on a project, a DUTCH CG (community gateway) together with a few others, adding mentoring and security in as well
[13:33]	:	Mentors are Organizing to Cross Network Mentor Groups
[13:33]	:	/me chants ... "Give us Group info thru LSL ..." (lol)
[13:33]	:	It sucks when knowledge is out there but you have a hard time retrieving it. That's why I often inquire, "How did you find my videos?" when people tell me they saw them. I like to understand that path, for myself, and for others.
[13:33]	:	erm i just joined this convo and not sure this fits the topic, but will the SL forums be going too btw? i've heard rumors about that
[13:33]	:	Check out https://blogs.secondlife.com/thread/5129 < new updates at the bottom relating to the RHN
[13:34]	:	TY Daniel.
[13:34]	:	Thanks, Daniel!
[13:34]	:	welcome! :)
[13:34]	:	Anya, forums.secondlife.com ? We don't have definite plans, they've been in sort of a limbo as people continue to use them (and I know tech grid updates from Lindens are on there too). The longer-term goal is to easier consolidate communication tools, but right now, no axing!
[13:34]	:	phew, good lol
[13:34]	:	i love them, personally
[13:34]	:	Ditto on that. I haven't heard anything about them going away--but I've been asked that too!
[13:34]	:	and find them much easier than the blogs
[13:34]	:	Rumors afoot
[13:35]	:	We're closely monitoring activity across all our venues.
[13:35]	:	should have left the SLX forums alone as well
[13:35]	:	a lot of people on the forum seem to think they're going, i find it a great place to go for help though
[13:35]	:	A big thing M brought up recently was, how to make SLurls easier to use... so if you have ideas on that... :)
[13:35]	:	Agreed Dragonlady.
[13:35]	:	elimanating rumors would be a big step lol
[13:35]	:	LOL!
[13:35]	:	Yes, SQUASH THOSE RUMORS! They just make people afraid.
[13:35]	:	and keeping promises
[13:35]	:	=squish= oops. just stepped on one
[13:36]	:	Some of the most ridiculous crap comes up too! It doesn't help anyone. Focus on what's useful and fun, people!
[13:36]	:	Hahahahaha.
[13:36]	:	lol
[13:36]	:	lol
[13:36]	:	when you closed the SLX forums you guys said that the others would be closed as well
[13:36]	:	great advice torley
[13:36]	:	Is everyone here familiar with Second Life Answers? https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers
[13:36]	:	Torley, Courtney .. one of the biggest growth mediums for rumors is the total lack of response .. especially on subjects with a very high "emotion quotient".
[13:36]	:	I love the mapto feature in Emerald, and I've made a bunch of gestures to tp around to my fav places.
[13:36]	:	I will also be looking for more people that would like to Mentor Second Life People and Train them how to be a good one
[13:36]	:	The videos are the best and boards with functions of the part your interested in like at the college of Scripting
[13:36]	:	Torley : what does he find difficult in SLURL ? it would be a good begining to look how to make easier
[13:36]	:	i send all the people i meet there forst
[13:37]	:	I heard about Answers, Jeremy, but personally i find that place a lot more confusing than the original forum :s
[13:37]	 	has pinged you.
[13:37]	:	If anything goes into the future planning for blogs/forums .. it should be that it has to be much easier to get info into by the Lindens so there is no delay in posting needed truth.
[13:37]	:	How so, Anya?
[13:37]	:	Laurent, for one, it's relatively hard to spread SLurls sensibly to external sites. Like how I have photo crossposting setup, but that's "kludgy".
[13:37]	:	i just found the layout confusing, the official forum is much more 'classic' and hence less confusing to me
[13:37]	:	There are a lot of different venues out there for finding information--which is good, because different people respond to different media
[13:37]	:	*nods @Darrius* Xstreet for an example ? lol
[13:37]	:	Answers doesn't feel like a forum
[13:38]	:	Wel, it's not, really
[13:38]	:	Ah, I see. That does sometimes happen when a software solution tries to do too many things at once. Good feedback, though!
[13:38]	:	i wasnt even aware of this answers thing until now
[13:38]	:	Then we need more publicity on it, Joachim!
[13:38]	:	LOL!
[13:38]	:	You can never overpromote something like that.
[13:38]	:	yeah that's another thing too, it's kinda hard to find atm, no?
[13:38]	:	sorry whoever's head i jsut rezzed on
[13:38]	:	answers is confusing and the points system is worthless
[13:38]	:	heh
[13:38]	:	I was wondering something, as many of us know, LL has been attracting RL companies, no problem there. But I do see a problem in how LL is working with residents and the RL companies. It seems more and more RL companies will be on first place instead of the residents that were here many years before them. Why? I mean... It seems to be a very dumb thing to make all those people angry jus to suit the RL companies. is it not? Or am i missing a bigger picture? if yes, what is it?
[13:38]	:	Some people will be like, "Yeah yeah I know about that..." but many will go "WHAT? WE HAVE THAT!?"
[13:39]	:	Ha ha ha! So true!
[13:39]	:	Youri, that's not true. We have a separate product focused on RL companies called Second Life Enterprise (Beta), Courtney actually is working on the docs!
[13:39]	:	defintly culd us a good way to get the word out better
[13:39]	:	use
[13:39]	:	http://work.secondlife.com/
[13:39]	:	kinda dont see the point in... well... basially backstabbing the residents for RL companies
[13:40]	:	not necessarily
[13:40]	:	For the consumers here, it's really important to make things like shopping experiences easier. SO many people care about those. I don't get where you're drawing such a false dichotomy without providing specific examples, Youri.
[13:40]	:	And a way to know there are Linden eyes and attention focused on the problem. Often people don't seek help because they drop in a ticket or question .. and it just vanishes. No clue if it's active, ignored or just not even received.
[13:40]	:	Some companies want the SL experience but are freaked out about having stuff outside of their firewall. Ergo, the behind-the-firewall solution.
[13:41]	:	i was rather pointing at the financial sides. SL getting way more expansive, but I can see more and more residents will leave because of SL getting more expansive
[13:41]	:	darrius
[13:41]	:	with the support isssue, you can see an online status of your ticket
[13:41]	:	Fisher
[13:41]	:	"ticket" was teh wrong word .. forgive me. But I meant it to be any question a user might ask.
[13:42]	:	oh trust me torley, im not trying to send a angry message, just a was wondering about it :p
[13:42]	:	Understandably though, there are many things we can't give personal responses too, it simply isn't feasible or time-practical.
[13:42]	:	manners usually helps too though Torley :) esopecially in live chat
[13:42]	:	/me knows the lindens care
[13:42]	:	well there are 5 on this sim, lol i guess they do
[13:42]	:	is there a Linden dedicated to in-world support?
[13:42]	:	However, it's important to note that if you ask a question in the wrong place, it might go unanswered because the people you asked don't know how to deal with it :-)
[13:42]	:	Thanks, Leasha! We do.
[13:42]	:	Euterpe there's a whole team!
[13:42]	:	We often get requests to "update the knowledge base" where the Resident wants us to un-ban an account or result an abuse issue!
[13:43]	:	who is on it?
[13:43]	:	Yes Jeremy, aye, it's part of the "Lindens aren't homogenous"... even though we have a history of generalization, as the world gets bigger, there are more specialized jobs to fill.
[13:43]	 	has pinged you.
[13:43]	:	Misdirected tickets
[13:43]	:	Jeremy, one suggestion - CLARITY
[13:43]	 	has pinged you.
[13:43]	:	Answers is somewhat frustrating with the time lag Mentors have always been helping Real Time
[13:43]	:	Euterpe, I'm glad you asked because Courtney blogged about that too! https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/05/07/resi-life
[13:43]	:	as I posted on my blog, I can see lots of problems and a very possible end of SL if things continue as they are. Think its good to read my blog for that part tho.
[13:43]	:	Can you elaborate on that, Adamburp?
[13:43]	:	thanks torley
[13:43]	:	as sometimes I've had to ask for help in filing in an AR via live chat - such as appropriate category
[13:43]	:	Ha ha! Thanks for the plug, Torley!
[13:43]	:	;-)
[13:44]	:	XLR88RICK, I see them as complementary. Here's why: some questions, like more technical ones, take time to think about and describe. Spontaneity and SL *itself* is good to show inworld problems in action. So we really need both.
[13:44]	:	Ah, point well taken. I can only personally speak for our own contact methods, which I hope are defined as clearly as possible :-)
[13:45]	:	If you think we should be more clear, let us know. We have links in many places. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Doc_Team :D
[13:46]	:	I really like to ask LL to rethink their stratigy, because no resident input = no sl economy. that means RL companies as well will feel that blow
[13:46]	:	not short term, but long term
[13:46]	:	do any of the lindens here know exactly HOW the message will be released to SLX merchants about the price and listing changes? if it will be on the blogs, emails etc?
[13:46]	:	I know may who don't use the flogs or forums
[13:46]	:	many*
[13:46]	:	/me shivers at the thought of the planned slx changes :s
[13:47]	:	Mentors are a great resource we all know different things and thats why we are all better together.
[13:47]	:	Dragonlady, there are a few central tools we *always* use. The blog is one. Often, Message of the Day (which appears when you login) and Twitter.
[13:47]	:	i rarely use them
[13:47]	:	That's a very spot on point Youri. While the Doc Team may be readily accessible, having or not having documentation really does not decide if we choose to leave or go. But often the decisions of other groups in LL heirarchy does .. and they have no such visibility.
[13:47]	:	/me giggles ... "flogs"
[13:47]	:	i recentlu saw in NCI chat that LL hasnt had a recent "customer satifaction survay". have there been past ones?
[13:47]	:	not eveyone reads the blogs or twitter, some kind of mass emailing to the residents would be useful for announcing major changes
[13:47]	:	or in-world messaging
[13:47]	:	I refuse to twitter, but the splash page soemtimes catches my eye. may i suggest a mass emailing for these iimportant need to know things?
[13:47]	:	Derek, those polls are still ongoing as far as I know, they're a random sampling so it takes chance to get one.
[13:48]	:	Derek, when LL re-enable a Sim to allow you to collect your objects, that makes you a very happy Cusomter, beleive me
[13:48]	 	Female AO: Could not find animation 'waiting'
[13:48]	:	Joachim, actually, there's a way to subscribe to the blogs via email.
[13:48]	:	That could be more obvious. *makes a note*
[13:48]	:	yeah let people know they can do that
[13:48]	:	that should help
[13:48]	:	/me <-- Horrible typestlol
[13:48]	:	we usually get emails about stuff like this, no? we got emails about the adult content changes too
[13:48]	:	lol
[13:48]	 	Female AO: Could not find animation 'waiting'.
[13:49]	:	There are some promo and info-emails sent out, but not for everything. As often is the case with info-management, it becomes a question of: "Where will most people find it easy to look?"
[13:49]	:	A lot of information comes through the blogs, so reminding people that they can subscribe is a really good idea
[13:49]	:	Therefore, tools that can funnel into each other, depending on one's convenient lifestyle, are crucial.
[13:49]	:	Teagan *kisses and pinches*
[13:49]	:	Yeah, "When in doubt, check da blogs!"
[13:49]	:	so the satifaction survays are random? how often are they taken?
[13:49]	:	So watch for a tip on that soon.
[13:49]	:	/me waves at teagan ...
[13:49]	:	struggling to rez hehe. kisses & hugs
[13:49]	:	people also need to know the blogs exist as well, i know many people who didnt know about them
[13:49]	:	Derek, it's ongoing, it's really *rolling* which means it's continually updated.
[13:49]	:	Personally, I'd like to see a Linden sponsored onigokko contest
[13:50]	:	oh, ok
[13:50]	:	I know many who HATE blogs period
[13:50]	:	What is Onigokko? *curious*
[13:50]	:	Dragonlady, then what do they love? :)
[13:50]	:	/me waves back :)
[13:50]	:	you dont want to know torley lol
[13:50]	:	/leans in to hear more about Onigokko too
[13:50]	:	~= hehe ~=
[13:50]	:	im all for that
[13:50]	:	lol i have something called onigokko in my invent :o
[13:50]	:	i'm one of them dragonlady... i prefer a traditional website
[13:50]	:	I dunno what "Onigokko" translates as, but I know it as a silly attachment thing
[13:50]	:	i find the onogokko think annoying personally, but it can be funny
[13:50]	:	whatever you do dont rezz it XD
[13:50]	:	lol
[13:51]	:	onigokko
[13:51]	:	hmm
[13:51]	:	lol there we go
[13:51]	:	well i try to stay as far away from blogs as possible, forums have so much drama, the flogs at SL site just confuse me, so basically i hear most from emails or from people in world
[13:51]	:	~= hehe ~=
[13:51]	:	Sometimes a name/label puts people off despite the actual contents. I'm reminded of this. Like the aversion to a song being labeled "country" despite its uniqueness. :)
[13:51]	:	So a lot of it, really, is psychological positioning and marketing.
[13:51]	:	"Blog" is just a fancy word for "Internet diary", anyway.
[13:52]	:	"Web Log"
[13:52]	:	right
[13:52]	:	What's a flog then?
[13:52]	:	weBlog
[13:52]	:	take out the "l" nad you have a fancy word for "toilet"
[13:52]	:	Ha ha!
[13:52]	:	i find it more difficult to search for what i'm looking for i think is my issue with it
[13:52]	:	true , and some peoplke might not expect a poliy change to be annunced in a blog, since they may have a diferent idea of what a blog is and used for
[13:52]	:	forum blog. what some have taken to call the new format that Ll took away from SLX and sent to their site
[13:52]	:	i thinks some people might find blogs more annoying too because it seems they're less about input
[13:52]	:	I've seen similar aversion to "WIKI!?!? ISN'T THAT FOR GEEKS ONLY!?!?!" so I'm like, "Dude... it's help pages. How's that!"
[13:53]	:	forums are much more about discussion
[13:53]	:	i heard that alot too torley
[13:53]	:	but who reads help pages anyway ;)
[13:53]	:	and i am a geek by the way
[13:53]	:	And of course .. the RSS feeds. *chuckles*
[13:53]	:	Most people will never add something to a Wiki page, but for those who want to and DO contribute, it's important to enable, empower them to. Those additions, gradiated knowledge, positively affect the experience for many.
[13:53]	:	People want to come into secondlife and have someone explain to them about what they can do here
[13:53]	:	Zamantha, that's part of why I got into videos. Ha ha ha!
[13:53]	:	erm btw, can just anyone edit the sl wiki?
[13:53]	:	/me loves torleys videos
[13:54]	:	i like the videos
[13:54]	:	But holistically, whatever medium(s) make sense.
[13:54]	:	agree, the videos rogk
[13:54]	:	Why thanks, Joachim and Euterpe. How'd you find out about them to begin with?
[13:54]	:	/me got seasick watching the one about sitting on a prim to take odd angle pictures ...
[13:54]	:	Anya, yes, anyone can edit
[13:54]	:	Why KB wiki needs first JIRA to be opened while "normal wiki" don't ? It makes difficult if you want to change or add something
[13:54]	:	just did a youtube search for secondlife
[13:54]	:	Anyone with a Second Life account can edit the wiki. The login information is that same as your Second Life login.
[13:54]	:	honestly, i cant remmeber how i found out anymorem it was along tiem ago
[13:54]	:	a how-to search
[13:54]	:	Anya, sure, but if that scares you, there's a simple review process to make sure those edits aren't junk.
[13:54]	:	i've been meaning to update some info on the Maya reassembler, might do that then
[13:54]	:	I do too i learnt a lot by watching Torleys videos
[13:54]	:	i have short term memory issues
[13:54]	:	no no doesn't scare me, i've been wanting to edit myself
[13:54]	:	Laurent, how do you mean? Describe this more... ? :)
[13:55]	:	shouts: I LOVE TROLEY VIDEOS!!
[13:55]	:	Kewl, Anya.
[13:55]	:	shouts: OMG THANKS
[13:55]	:	hahahaha
[13:55]	:	right action
[13:55]	:	/me feels the love
[13:55]	:	okay, we got another one
[13:55]	:	~= hehe ~=
[13:55]	:	haha
[13:55]	:	LondonX, that is not appropriate for this meeting. Please put some clothes on.
[13:55]	:	@_@
[13:55]	:	Going once...
[13:55]	:	he wont listen jeremy :p
[13:55]	 	has pinged you.
[13:55]	:	my eyes!
[13:55]	:	trust me :p
[13:55]	:	Going twice...
[13:55]	:	good lord
[13:55]	:	If he spent his time talking to a real woman .. LOL
[13:55]	:	Good enough.
[13:55]	:	i diddnt see that
[13:55]	:	Is that the first time we had a streaker?
[13:55]	:	fresh noob... Avie from today
[13:55]	:	lmao
[13:55]	:	hahaha torley
[13:56]	:	Wow. I should come to these meetings more often! Much excitement!
[13:56]	:	lol, gotto love noobs
[13:56]	:	more like a dispsable alt to disrupt the meeting
[13:56]	:	Torley : I wanted to translate click actions on KB wiki and have been told tha Noelle Linden should open a JIRA first
[13:56]	:	yes torley
[13:56]	:	omg that was too funny
[13:56]	:	Courtney, we were once attacked by whales and schoolbuses.
[13:56]	:	it's prob an alt, not a noob
[13:56]	:	LOL! No way!
[13:56]	:	lol
[13:56]	:	Jeremy has been practicing his trigger finger throughout it all.
[13:56]	 	has pinged you.
[13:56]	:	he may have noticed courtney around and wanted to impress her :p
[13:56]	:	LOL
[13:56]	:	wish i could have snapped a pic LOl
[13:56]	:	Hm, Laurent. I'm not that well-acquainted with the localization process. JIRA is to keep track of things but if we can keep track on the Wiki itself, I wonder if we can make it easier for you?
[13:56]	:	Well. Gosh. I'm...um...honored?
[13:57]	:	Hello how are you doing Bau
[13:57]	:	/me looks around: Hey, I'm fair, right? :-P
[13:57]	:	well, he got what he wanted... go get us to talk about him. lol
[13:57]	:	lol
[13:57]	:	k ... it's official .. streakers are Courtney's fault. Put THAT on the blog.
[13:57]	:	Courtney, rack that up with your marriage proposals!
[13:57]	:	Ha ha ha ha!
[13:57]	:	hahahahahaha
[13:57]	:	HAHAHAH you guys who were here, you experienced it.
[13:57]	:	lol
[13:57]	:	heh
[13:57]	:	Torley - JIRA can be used to suggest viewer enhancements?
[13:57]	:	I should have a warning label: Inviting Courtney to meetings may result in streaking.
[13:57]	:	lol
[13:57]	:	Niky, yes, it sure can.
[13:57]	:	Ask your doctor if Courtney is right for you
[13:57]	:	lol
[13:57]	:	lol
[13:57]	:	I thought too that using the wiki wouldn't oblige to open a JIRA anymore :)
[13:58]	:	Cool... 'cause have one.... 'Dump Attachments' is dangerously close to 'Rebake Textures' in the menu,.... lol
[13:58]	:	Torley .. so far we've talked a lot about how LL can get their info out better. How can we get our info and perceptions INTO the lab better. How can we as residents develop lines of trust that give us weight with management/development?
[13:58]	:	I don't know, Laurent. I'll have to check with Noelle and see how they want to keep track of translation work! I like JIRAfying if it helps me keep track of work to do. I don't like it if it becomes a mess of issues that *hinder* my process.
[13:59]	:	You have to show them something they want
[13:59]	:	seconds Darrius' question
[13:59]	:	Time f'r me to scoot. Have fun, everybuggy!
[13:59]	:	Bye Bye!!
[13:59]	:	Bye!
[13:59]	:	TC Marianne.
[13:59]	:	bai Marianne
[13:59]	:	Darrius, where we are right now, I think it really depends on how specific teams interface, and how overall communication-with-public policies trickle down. That isn't an all-comprehensive answer... it's really ongoing.
[13:59]	:	Courtney: we can just be happy we are not at Pooley Stage, there are dayly streakers there :p
[13:59]	:	Torley : I can ask her, in fact, if you prefer. Isee her at her office time :)
[13:59]	:	hahahaha
[13:59]	:	Ha ha ha!
[14:00]	:	Like for instance, I know the Commerce experts have been very upfront about taking Resident feedback into consideration, they're active on the Commerce forums too.
[14:00]	:	I think that one hill .. overcoming the resistance to contributions from "outside" .. would see massive benefits in the overall customer satisfaction with LL and SL.
[14:00]	:	ah thats good to know torley
[14:00]	:	Well one thing I can say is: it's easier to communicate policies well if you in fact have them. Rightnow for example the whole new user experience lacks integraton and we are not hearing any integrated plan for doing it right.
[14:01]	:	It's always a practical conundrum, because I find people who are interested in such info aren't willing to pursue it deeply, there's a lot to learn. Like for instance, I've come across many Residents who want us to hear their bugs, yet they don't want to attend the Bug Triages with devs & QA we have.
[14:01]	:	We hear this little piece of it, resident help network...but, how much oprientation will the newcomers have before they reach the volunteer helpers? Prospective helper network people can't know, because the picture has not been communicated. We don't even know if Orientation and Help will exist.
[14:01]	:	are these commerce experts lindens? if so, it would be cool if they could post a bit more, just so weknow they are out there listening and reading
[14:01]	:	Torley .. you see the commerce team working, because you're "in the same office". But we out here haven't a clue who has even bothered to read the flood of messages and comments pouring into the forums.
[14:02]	:	Certain individuals contribute disproportionately, too. This isn't SL-specific.
[14:02]	:	that's also because takes time before a noob really learns . the integration is harder than every else place .
[14:02]	:	*nods*
[14:02]	:	Thank you for sharing your time with us .
[14:02]	:	Joachim, they post regularly @ https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/commerce/
[14:02]	:	(especially when it's 4am, I'm still awake and still ticked off. LOL)
[14:02]	:	thats why you need a one to one approach
[14:02]	:	ah thanks for th link
[14:02]	:	Paul ++
[14:02]	:	Darrius, if you mean physical office, no. I'm remote. :)
[14:02]	:	thanks for having us lindens :)
[14:03]	:	LOL Darrius
[14:03]	:	And aside from specific projects I don't interact with them daily.
[14:03]	:	thanks Torley , Fisher and Courtney .
[14:03]	:	Specific project for instance, Xstreet help http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Xstreet :)
[14:03]	:	Have to go... Thanks everyone, what a great meeting today.... :)
[14:03]	:	Thanks each & all for being with us!
[14:03]	:	:-O
[14:03]	:	Thank you!
[14:03]	:	As am I from our main office in Tel Aviv (I'm in North Carolina, USA) But I still hear about stuff going oin much better than folks outside. And it has caused a lot of troubles even with a much smaller customr base.
[14:03]	:	Happy Thanksgiving :)
[14:03]	:	now its waiting on Michael's OH :)
[14:03]	:	Thanks for inviting me, Torley!
[14:03]	:	You too, Zamantha!
[14:03]	:	Glad you could make it, Courtney!
[14:04]	:	this was a productive meeting , learned alot of new stuf,
[14:04]	:	Courtney and Fisher, can I get a bear before everyone goes?
[14:04]	:	Bye everyone... =)
[14:04]	:	Thanks for coming, everyone! If you're celebrating a holiday this week, enjoy it!
[14:04]	:	Communication in any successful relationship, business or love, is really day-by-day.
[14:04]	:	ah i recently moved out of NC darrius
[14:04]	:	glad you joined today courtney! :)
[14:04]	:	Yes, have a nice weekend!
[14:04]	:	. ^ /.
[14:04]	:	. | | / | .
[14:04]	:	| | | / | / |
[14:04]	:	. - - ' - ` | / - ' ' - - .
[14:04]	:	` - . _ | . / . - ' /
[14:04]	:	> ` - . _ | / . - ' <
[14:04]	:	' ~ | / ~ ~ | ~ ~ | ~ '
[14:04]	:	|
[14:04]	:	I... AM... CANADIAN!!!
[14:04]	:	hope you will be here next week again :)
[14:04]	:	Torley .. if you even feel the need to torment your brain with too much feedback, please IM me anytime.
[14:04]	:	HAHAHA, I am a Canuck too. Maple leafs!
[14:04]	:	㋡
[14:04]	:	shouts: bye everyone that is leaving
[14:04]	:	Happy Thanksgiving Day for those who observes
[14:04]	:	can only take one Turkey in a month
[14:04]	:	Me too XLR8RRICK
[14:04]	:	Thanks for being so receptive and forward, Darrius!
[14:04]	:	Just sent it, Leasha!
[14:04]	:	Hey man, I qualified it :-P
[14:04]	:	thank you courtney!
[14:04]	:	thank you for the meeting
[14:04]	:	Bye bye all, have a lovely turkey consumption, or vegetarian equivalent thereof.
[14:05]	:	I'll be having turkey flavoured back bacon ;)
[14:05]	:	you too torley
[14:05]	:	My pleasure. Much as I want change .. I want SANE change ... and growth for all.
[14:05]	:	LOL! I loved the proud Canadian clip!
[14:05]	:	rice and red lentil soup :) with cranberry suace!
[14:05]	:	lol tofurkey *grins*
[14:05]	:	Thank you for having me here. (even with my odd hairstyle. LOL)
[14:05]	:	want it
[14:05]	:	Nice meeting y'all!
[14:05]	:	Likewise Courtney.
[14:05]	:	nice meeting everyone!
[14:05]	:	Be well and safe.
[14:06]	:	same here Courtney
 
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