Doc Team/2009-03-18

== Transcript ==
*[13:05 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Hoiw do I take a Screen Shot? Is it <shft><prnt-scrn> or <ctrl><prnt-Scrn>?
*[13:06 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: The attach Screen Shot doesn't say, and I thought I'd bring that to attention, but I'd also like to know.
*[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: I have other programs set for shift-prnt screen or prnt-screen. I use Jing for screenshots.
*[13:07 SLT] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
*[13:07 SLT] link: : Love you Randy my Husband with my whole heart mind an soul in body an sprit im with yours forever bound together for all eternity love your loving devoted wife ......sharon mwah
*[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: http://www.jingproject.com/
*[13:07 SLT] Jon Linden: whoa, a lot of new people just showed up
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: OHH YEAH what about Jing!
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: Hello and welcome to our Doc Team office hours!
*[13:07 SLT] Bigfox Pye: :P
*[13:07 SLT] Nellie Telling: rezzing! sorry if Im stepping on ya
*[13:07 SLT] Jambo James: Hello all :)
*[13:07 SLT] Jon Linden: what Torley said
*[13:07 SLT] Julilina Beck: sorry whoever I landed on :)
*[13:07 SLT] Jules Webb: hi
*[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: Jules, Mars Attacks? :)
*[13:08 SLT] Jules Webb: maybe
*[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: I ain't got doves so... I hopefully don't have anything to worry about.
*[13:08 SLT] Jules Webb: :)
*[13:08 SLT] Tegg Bode: Wow the KB ratings are really gone through the roof since you moved timeslots.
*[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: I'm just waiting for everyone to rez in... what's new and exciting!
*[13:08 SLT] Jules Webb: lol
*[13:09 SLT] Bigfox Pye: Torley has a big hat O.O
*[13:09 SLT] Nellie Telling: Im just being nosy :D
*[13:09 SLT] Jules Webb: im in the matrik
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Tegg, glad you noticed. We've become even more visible with our Tips & Tricks blog! https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/tnt for anyone who hasn't visited yet, it tends to be a topic of discussion.
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Whoa, old-school Cylon.
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: My hat is at least as big as my hunger.
*[13:09 SLT] Tegg Bode: Wow you even got Torley to your hours he used to be the competion ㋡
*[13:09 SLT] Jon Linden: tegg, torley's part of the Doc Team now
*[13:09 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: cylon commander ;-)
*[13:09 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Jules, you wouldn't happen to have any twangy, yodelling music I could borrow, eh?
*[13:09 SLT] Jules Webb: lol
*[13:09 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: (Reference to the movie...)
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: LOL yes Tegg, reorg happened. :}
*[13:09 SLT] Courteous Avedon: That Animoto thing is the most exciting interesting, best sounding video, I love it and listen to it everytime
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: Bio I always wanted to see a cross between a Centurion and KITT.
*[13:10 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: lol
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: Courteous, glad you think so. We're all for creative promotions and FUN!
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: Might replace it in the future but for now, whee.
*[13:10 SLT] Courteous Avedon: fantastic
*[13:10 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: remember Animoto is free for educators too
*[13:10 SLT] Jules Webb: centurion and kitt
*[13:10 SLT] Jules Webb: lol
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: So what are our hot topics today? :D
*[13:10 SLT] Tegg Bode: Ahh you've assimilated him but didn't think you'd end up as green & purple Jello ㋡
*[13:10 SLT] Jules Webb: wat linden
*[13:11 SLT] Jules Webb: brb matrik
*[13:11 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I have a topic, if no one else will start
*[13:11 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3985
*[13:11 SLT] Jon Linden: go for it, sophie!
*[13:12 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Bio, did you get a clarification on that renaming issue?
*[13:12 SLT] blade Bixby: do i have to get up if a lady wants to sit
*[13:12 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: i remember getting the subway train at atlanta airport once and the voice sounded like a cylon lol
*[13:12 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I noticed this week in the blog some info on the adult sims
*[13:12 SLT] Skee jetpack (X-Flight): All Go
*[13:12 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: and there have been rumors in my field about the teen grid
*[13:12 SLT] Tegg Bode: I can do centurion too ㋡
*[13:12 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: is the main grid and the teen grid merging?
*[13:12 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: which issue lol
*[13:12 SLT] Jon Linden: there are no plans to merge the grids
*[13:12 SLT] Jon Linden: it's even in the FAQ
*[13:13 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: thanks Jon
*[13:13 SLT] Nellie Telling: Great that would be scary.
*[13:13 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: It would be a hard sell for schools if it did
*[13:13 SLT] Jules Webb: VLC is unable to open the MRL 'dvd://D:\\'. Check the log for details.
*[13:13 SLT] Jon Linden: ten points to griffyndor for whoever finds the FAQ in the KB right now and gives us the correct URL
*[13:13 SLT] Jules Webb: :(
*[13:14 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Schools need the merger, in some ways, but the teens shouldn't be in PG without Parental Guidance.
*[13:14 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I have been on the designers RFL sims this week a lot, anyone else?
*[13:14 SLT] Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6032
*[13:14 SLT] Nellie Telling: Ive never been to a pg sim thats actually pg
*[13:14 SLT] Jon Linden: ij should've specified that doc team members don't count
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: It would be quite something if we were beaten to the punch by rapid Residents looking up KB articles faster than we can!
*[13:14 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: oh nellie, there are tons in the education world
*[13:15 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: and I was in disney land last night :) it was cool
*[13:15 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. All I did was use the search function.
*[13:15 SLT] Nellie Telling: I agree but Im sure there also is in the teen grid
*[13:15 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: but we cannot get in the teen grid
*[13:15 SLT] Tegg Bode: Well funny enough a lot of mature sims are PG
*[13:15 SLT] Nellie Telling: They are.
*[13:16 SLT] Jules Webb: brb
*[13:16 SLT] Kate Linden: Sophie, not sure if you have seen this fairly new article from last month https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5864
*[13:16 SLT] Nellie Telling: There is nobody enforcing the pg rating. It all depends on sending ARs
*[13:16 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: you should call this couch the fidget couch
*[13:16 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: thanks Kate, I will look it up
*[13:16 SLT] blade Bixby: lol
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: blade laughing looked hilarious. :)
*[13:17 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Which Disneyland, west coast or florida?
*[13:17 SLT] jjccc Coronet: hi
*[13:17 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: The information is not complete.
*[13:17 SLT] Nellie Telling: Hello JJ
*[13:17 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: florida
*[13:17 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: oops wrong button lol
*[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: lol
*[13:17 SLT] blackcrow6667 Garmes: haha
*[13:17 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I have never been RL, so it was cool for me
*[13:18 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Perfect knowledge does not exist, which makes me terribly forgetful
*[13:18 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: In Florida it's called Disney World. FYI
*[13:18 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Careful it's a fantasyland that you can get addicted to!
*[13:18 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: <---from Florida.
*[13:18 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: ahhh, seee...I am a mickey noob
*[13:18 SLT] Radar Shades whispers: System is keyed to Monica Gelfand
*[13:18 SLT] Jaymes Kjeller: If anything, there should be a sanity raiting. Maybe rated by the ammount of head-desking you do before a particlar sim makes sense. (I'm joking)
*[13:18 SLT] Jon Linden: jjccc, you've ended up at the Documentation Team's office hour
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: We could like put in the middle of the carpet in the middle, an indentation after all the times it has been landed upon.
*[13:19 SLT] Jon Linden: mostly we answer questions or discuss issues related to the knowledge base and our Tips & Tricks blog
*[13:19 SLT] Arawn Spitteler recommends grabbinbg a lindbear, for rapid access to the KB
*[13:19 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Cute
*[13:19 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: omg Torley
*[13:19 SLT] Courteous Avedon: I have a ...question or request
*[13:19 SLT] Marianne McCann: True
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: Aye, so if you have a question related to what Jon said, please ASK!
*[13:19 SLT] Jon Linden: go for it, courteous
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: WE INDULGE THY CURIOSITY. ^.^
*[13:19 SLT] Jeremy Linden: jjccc, we'd actually prefer to communicate in text here, since we'll be posting a transcript once we're done.
*[13:20 SLT] Courteous Avedon: How do we get groups to include the date and time for events in each part of the announcement stream
*[13:20 SLT] Monica Gelfand: hi all .. rezzing
*[13:20 SLT] Jeremy Linden: It'll be so awesome one day if we ever manage to capture voice chat as text for the transcripts.
*[13:20 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hi Becky
*[13:20 SLT] Ericc Carter: :)
*[13:20 SLT] Courteous Avedon: There is the onscreen announcement, the a separate attachment, then the Group notice
*[13:20 SLT] Nellie Telling: now buck up and recieve your spanking for breaking the rules :D
*[13:20 SLT] Becky Pippen: Hi Marianne
*[13:20 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Have an mp3 capture of the voice stream, sweet.
*[13:20 SLT] Jon Linden: hello, and welcome to the Doc Team's office hour!
*[13:20 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: The TNT podcast!
*[13:21 SLT] Courteous Avedon: The group notice may not have the date and time, also the email rarely indicates the time, sometimes, no location
*[13:21 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: now that is a cool idea, a podcast
*[13:21 SLT] Jon Linden: courteous, your question sounds more like a feature request -- or is this something that's up to groups to put in announcements themselves?
*[13:21 SLT] Monica Gelfand: hi Jon
*[13:21 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Do we just leave it to the best run groups to think to include this
*[13:22 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Yes, each group but individually, but will someone tell them to be informative consistently
*[13:22 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I have another question for the team....
*[13:22 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's received many notices saying: In Ten Minutes!!!
*[13:22 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Thank you
*[13:22 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: but I dont want to take up more than my fair time
*[13:22 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Go for it, Sophie. No need to ask permission :-)
*[13:22 SLT] Jon Linden: what he said
*[13:22 SLT] Courteous Avedon: I guess mine was just a rant
*[13:22 SLT] Courteous Avedon: This is the rant group
*[13:22 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Life is unfair, splurge on your unjust bounty
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: Oh how polite! We're pretty easygoing here and of course we're in the best position to answer stuff about what we actually do, so please keep it on-topic. :D
*[13:23 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: Jeremy, the classes at NCI are fine, but not the best that could be done, and the DOC team does agreat job with the video tutorials
*[13:23 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Sophie Wellesley has pinged you.
*[13:23 SLT] blackcrow6667 Garmes: and I second that with build in wengen :)
*[13:23 SLT] Nellie Telling: Aherns a big enough mess without them
*[13:23 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: you guys should think about offering classes
*[13:23 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: REAL classes
*[13:23 SLT] Jon Linden: jjccc's question sounds like something for the RESI team
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: We alas can't help with things we don't know about but can point you to Office Hours of Lindens who'd know more: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
*[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: Turning on scripts at Ahern, jjccc? Prob'ly slim to none, I bet
*[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann giggles
*[13:23 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: not just powerpoints with ready made green text
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: Sophie, next video tutorial coming up is about 1.22's new beacons layout! You heard it here first!
*[13:24 SLT] Nellie Telling: Thats because they dont want to.
*[13:24 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hmm... Sophie, you mean something like a traditional training department might handle?
*[13:24 SLT] Jon Linden: do you have a specific reason for wanting scripts on there?
*[13:24 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: that is cool torley, but we need in world classes
*[13:24 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wonders if Cheasy Bacon will ever be explained
*[13:24 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: from someone that knows how to train
*[13:24 SLT] Courteous Avedon: OH, maybe a request to groups in the logon message???
*[13:24 SLT] Jon Linden: you would have to present a pretty strong factual case
*[13:24 SLT] Nellie Telling: There are so many other places to go where scripts can run.
*[13:24 SLT] Marianne McCann: jjccc - judging from the amount of trouble that has happened there, it would seem that they keep em off due to griefing issues
*[13:24 SLT] Nellie Telling: lol
*[13:24 SLT] Jon Linden: heh
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: There are SO many people to teach, who hunger for knowledge. This is great, and we certainly have a passion for sharing that knowledge onwards, so you can help a friend. We, even as a quartet, can't teach the whole of Second Life. :>
*[13:24 SLT] blackcrow6667 Garmes: he should not be denied his smile..
*[13:25 SLT] Marianne McCann: Go to Oak Grove an load 'em, then hit the WA
*[13:25 SLT] Arawn Spitteler recommends NCI for someone who knows how to train: The later Orientation Islands were pretty good, and some samples should be preserved.
*[13:25 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: no, there really are not that many people that TEACH< they just put a power point in front of people
*[13:25 SLT] Kate Linden: jjccc are you talking about Help island public?
*[13:25 SLT] Marianne McCann: Kate - he means Ahern WA
*[13:25 SLT] Jon Linden: my guess -- and this is just a guess -- is that the potential for horror outweighs the potential for friendliness to the extent that it's just safer to leave them off
*[13:25 SLT] Kate Linden: ah ok, thanks.
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: *plays string cue in sync with Jon's words*
*[13:26 SLT] Ericc Carter: hugs
*[13:26 SLT] Jeremy Linden: That sounds like a cool idea, Sophie. Do you have any ideas for how to scale it up for thousands of new Residents each day?
*[13:26 SLT] Marianne McCann: Jon - that is what I've gotten back on my "scripts off in Morris archery range" support ticket too
*[13:26 SLT] Nellie Telling: Scripts are on in Nova but it doesnt prevent griefing,rezz rights do.
*[13:26 SLT] Jon Linden: the odds are unfortunately against you, jjccc and marianne
*[13:26 SLT] Nellie Telling: But I still think its a terrible idea for Ahern :D
*[13:26 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh, I know Jon. I closed my Morris ticket some time back
*[13:27 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Have someone sit on the target, to make it a vehicle
*[13:27 SLT] Jon Linden chuckles
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: Jambo, your avatar totally reminds me of Lady GaGa. Coincidence?
*[13:27 SLT] Jon Linden: that's not exactly a sustainable model, friend
*[13:27 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Likewise, replace the bow with a tank
*[13:27 SLT] Marianne McCann turns down voice to focus on the meeting
*[13:27 SLT] Nellie Telling: But JJ if the lindens let everyone have everything they like things would be a wicked mess.
*[13:28 SLT] Jambo James: no but thanks for noticing ;-) I made this look specifically to make me look like her :d
*[13:28 SLT] Jon Linden: "bother lindens until they do something" is seriously not recommended
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: And how all that needs to relate and flow from one to the next. How tweaking a little bit here can make a big difference there.
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: Very cool, Jambo! PLAY THAT RECORD etc.
*[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann: It's ttue, Torley. I knwo Jack L. was talking about that recently too. Smal things that make a big difference sounds like the "meme" now
*[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann grins
*[13:28 SLT] Jambo James: Popopopoppopopo pokerfae7
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, yeah, Pareto Principle FTW!
*[13:29 SLT] Monica Gelfand: scaling up the public learning area might not be realistic in terms of paying for 24 hours staff
*[13:29 SLT] Jambo James: god typing is so not going well
*[13:29 SLT] Nellie Telling: they asked you not to talk
*[13:29 SLT] Jon Linden: because we need to have a written record of what happens here
*[13:29 SLT] Marianne McCann: jjccc - transcripts FTW!
*[13:29 SLT] Nellie Telling: because they are doing a chat transcript
*[13:29 SLT] Jeremy Linden: As I said when you arrived, jjccc: We need to communicate in text for recording purposes.
*[13:29 SLT] Marianne McCann: Then you'll still hear that this is about documentation
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: Monica: But directly, what gaps we can help fill with current Second Life teachers, we're opening to helping with. Including getting the word out about things more Residents should know on our blog (with Knowledge Base links as-needed) so it's on public record and easy to find.
*[13:29 SLT] Marianne McCann giggles
*[13:29 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: God Typing? Sounds like a Linden Obly Abvility
*[13:29 SLT] Jon Linden: jjccc: scripts in ahern are literally not the doc team's responsibility
*[13:29 SLT] Jon Linden: we don't control scripts in ahern
*[13:30 SLT] jjccc Coronet: please turn on scripts in ahern welcome area thanks
*[13:30 SLT] Marianne McCann: Arawn - I wonder what God Typing would be.
*[13:30 SLT] Monica Gelfand: perhaps the old program for teachers could be revamped to provide incentive
*[13:30 SLT] Arawn Spitteler'd love to teach with incentives
*[13:30 SLT] Marianne McCann would too
*[13:30 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's tips suck dead donkey dink
*[13:30 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: does god like watermelon though?
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: Mine does.
*[13:31 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Long ago, there was a Second Life Instructors group, and we provided incentives for Instructors to hold classes. I'm not sure what happened to that program, though.
*[13:31 SLT] Marianne McCann: type it, jjccc
*[13:31 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: or perhapps you could gain the assistance of the hundreds of teachers already in SL that would love to help with a project like this
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: \\=^_^/
*[13:31 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: knowing how .to. teach is the important part
*[13:31 SLT] Marianne McCann: type it jjccc
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: Jeremy, ah yes... that was unscalable after awhile which is why it was phased out. I remember Char and Jeska keeping track of so much stuff related to that (and Volunteers).
*[13:31 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Torley Linden has pinged you.
*[13:31 SLT] Monica Gelfand: it was cancelled
*[13:31 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Sophie, I agree.
*[13:31 SLT] Jon Linden: jjccc, other people might want to know what your question was after the fact
*[13:32 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: who looks after xstreet? cos i hate having to log in everytime I visit
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: Sophie, we appreciate focus, too, and seeing plans rolled into action — even experiments, for there are many "great ideas" but few "good executions" of those plans.
*[13:32 SLT] Jon Linden: some people at this office hour might not even hear it (they may have you on mute)
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: I've heard 100s of ideas to teach more effectively in Second Life, but only a handful have really persisted.
*[13:32 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: then look to groups like ISTE, NCM...
*[13:32 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: look to the big education groups
*[13:32 SLT] jjccc Coronet: i want my gallery on the show case website do i have to be on linden ownesd land
*[13:32 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - teaching *about* SL, or using SL to teach on real world issues?
*[13:32 SLT] Monica Gelfand: good coup with that, by the way (xstreet) .. onrez and slexchange all mashed in now
*[13:32 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I know they want the same tings
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: Bio, Xstreet is part of Linden Lab, and we have a team running it. You can consider reporting an issue on http://jira.secondlife.com :)
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, both. There's quite a crossover, and many of the same tools are used.
*[13:33 SLT] Marianne McCann: jjccc - I don't think so. Most of the showcased places are not LL owned land
*[13:33 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Bio, I know we're working on ways to more closely integrate XStreet with Second Life accounts; I don't know that there's much more I can say at the moment
*[13:33 SLT] Nellie Telling: I have a question..I spend the majority of my time at an info hub. There are several people born into SL that have <NO> clue what they are doing. Is there any way to FORCE new avatars to complete the tutorials before they enter the world? Or add some features to it to help them get a better start?
*[13:33 SLT] Marianne McCann: I know Livingtree was in the showcase during the holidays, an we're privately owned
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: jjccc, please see the help FAQ on http://secondlife.com/showcase , it has all the details you need to know.
*[13:34 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: Caledon has great walk thru- tutorials..
*[13:34 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: We were forced to complete OI, when I first rezzed.
*[13:34 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I don't think we need that nellie
*[13:34 SLT] Monica Gelfand: the residents take care of the newbies
*[13:34 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: and I dont "force" but it is part of my classes that I teach
*[13:34 SLT] Marianne McCann: It's true, Torley. I think the private universities seem to live" in their own SL often. At least from my working with them
*[13:34 SLT] Nellie Telling: Youd think so but where I come from thats not the way things work.
*[13:35 SLT] sparkles Britton: what about some more infomation for newbs, about what sl is about?
*[13:35 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: it would be so interesting to see a survey of newbies, and the percentage that stay
*[13:35 SLT] Kate Linden: sparkles, what sort of info would you like to see in the KB that may not be there already ?
*[13:35 SLT] Nellie Telling: There is a problem with new people in the nova area
*[13:35 SLT] Nellie Telling: they are griefed
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: Generalizations aren't so useful here, so specifics are what's missing — e.g., *which* newcomers? What are they looking for?
*[13:35 SLT] Nellie Telling: and picked on
*[13:35 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: with my classes the learning curve is so steep I have to hold their hand for several days
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: There is no one abstract audience for Second Life, there's a great diversity here, and different things appeal to each segment, which is why it's so important to be specific.
*[13:36 SLT] sparkles Britton: just a genral notecard on what happens in sl, i get asked a lot, 8what can I do in sl*?
*[13:36 SLT] Marianne McCann: Nellie - I believe Jack and Blondin have beein dome some work on the WAs recently. Might be good to talk with them
*[13:36 SLT] Marianne McCann: (I know I've been)
*[13:36 SLT] Nellie Telling: Im in the Slickers group and can encourage people to do otherwise but its something very prevelent there
*[13:36 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I recently watched a speach from Phillip Linden. One of the things he emphasized was the freedom in SL. mandating learning sounds wrong
*[13:36 SLT] Nellie Telling: Its just the basics Monica
*[13:36 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: no, I would not mandate learning
*[13:36 SLT] jjccc Coronet: would linden labs give me the murray sim for free to build a super sim that houses an art gallery for residents that want to showcase the coolest art in secondlife
*[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: I wish some of the WAs did have more information in them. A whole "information" pavilion in Ahern without even web links residing in it
*[13:37 SLT] Monica Gelfand: "WAs"?
*[13:37 SLT] Jon Linden: jjccc: doubtful
*[13:37 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I would make the teaching of sl of much higher quality--what is there now is not teaching--it is just powerpoints on a screen (not YOU torley, your tutorials are great
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: We can't force knowledge on you :p but we can encourage you to be curious and seek out answers. And look for ways to provide those answers easier, connect the dots, so to speak.
*[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: I'd really love to see more done to bring some of the documentation into the world and its welcome areas, even if only on a "click to inworld browser"
*[13:37 SLT] jjccc Coronet: i dont take no for an answer
*[13:37 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: WA - welcome Area
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: Aw thanks Sophie, well as you may know, I started doing videos because I was frustrated with the lack of easy materials when I started my Second Life.
*[13:37 SLT] Nellie Telling: Maybe a what to do next station at the info hubs
*[13:38 SLT] Nellie Telling: something of that sort
*[13:38 SLT] Monica Gelfand: ah ok, thanks Arawn
*[13:38 SLT] Jon Linden: that's unfortunate, then
*[13:38 SLT] sparkles Britton: thats what i was thinking nellie
*[13:38 SLT] Nellie Telling: make sure its somewhere people could see it
*[13:38 SLT] Incharge Lupindo: "Unschooling" works very well with self-motivated people who will study what they are interested in.
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: I really enjoy seeing what different colleges, businesses, and other communities have done with their own orientation islands.
*[13:38 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: that is great Dana
*[13:38 SLT] Marianne McCann: Good idea, Nellie. Something to both draw people away from the critical mass that is the WA, as well as introduce some of the other fabulous places out there
*[13:38 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I like that idea Nellie
*[13:38 SLT] Jon Linden: how about "please establish a business case for your request that outlines Linden Lab's return-on-investment in concrete terms"
*[13:38 SLT] sparkles Britton: i have found lots of newbs actually give up after an hour because ppl arent actually being that helpful and they cant find out where to go next
*[13:38 SLT] Monica Gelfand: excellent point Incharge
*[13:38 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Is it possible to stream the torley-tuts?
*[13:39 SLT] Nellie Telling: Its hard to figure out whats going on when you are dropped in somewhere so full of people and chaotic
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: The "mentor" idea was called "Greeters" in 2005, hard to scale that, too. Here's where monoliths may not work, but more focused approaches will.
*[13:39 SLT] Courteous Avedon: Could LL recommend that a newbie find a mentor and say, if not then enjoy a steep learning curve
*[13:39 SLT] Marianne McCann: Sparkles - too true. I doubt I would have stayed if I hadn't had a friend to get me out of Ahern and show me the world
*[13:39 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: yes, they can be streamed in world with quiiick time
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: Arawn, absolutely. http://torley.com/files/vidtuts/ and download any or all of them or link directly to them.
*[13:39 SLT] Monica Gelfand: would that work, jon?
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: They're also hosted on Linden Lab's Amazon S3 servers but those aren't browsable.
*[13:39 SLT] sparkles Britton: i was lucky, i met a girl the first minute of my arrival at waterhead, other wise i would have given up!
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: sparkles, friends and pleasant company do make a big positive difference.
*[13:40 SLT] Gianna Borgnine: me to sparkles
*[13:40 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya sparkles: I had a friend who was inworld an gave me that handup
*[13:40 SLT] Monica Gelfand agrees with marianne
*[13:40 SLT] sparkles Britton: they d, and i know lots ofppl who go out of there way to help, but alot don
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: Upon my first 15 min. (after the old OI) I stumbled into a gameshow. I couldn't resist.
*[13:40 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: lol
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: Pituca Fairchang and Yoshi Platini were amongst the first people to help me in Second Life!
*[13:40 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - very cool. Pituca rocks
*[13:40 SLT] Nellie Telling: I was born in Nova and orbited 10-15 times before I even learned how to sit :PJeremy Linden 21:02, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
*[13:40 SLT] Jaymes Kjeller: Everything I learned to do was through Torley's tutorials.
*[13:41 SLT] Nellie Telling: Hard knocks
*[13:41 SLT] Nellie Telling: haha
*[13:41 SLT] Marianne McCann: I started in Ahern, but quickly changed my home location to the now defunct Sami infohub. It was quiet (whisch is why its no longer, I bet)
*[13:41 SLT] sparkles Britton: see most of what i have learned is through friends but but i have seen ppl abused when landing for the first time and its horrible
*[13:42 SLT] Monica Gelfand: yes, sparkles
*[13:42 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: i never paid attention when i first started then kinda hit Amsterdam..then ended up somewhere else and made some very good friends there
*[13:42 SLT] Marianne McCann: Oh ya sparkles. noobs are often, well, open game
*[13:42 SLT] Monica Gelfand: the welcome areas do need security
*[13:42 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: I see people abused too....and see vampires lurking there
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: I am very grateful to those who taught me, and then shared my knowledge in-kind. So glad you have, Jaymes.
*[13:42 SLT] sparkles Britton: so something they can have a notecard, so they can escape would be good
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: I pay tribute to my teachers. :-D
*[13:42 SLT] Marianne McCann: An it's an issue, I think. Especilly at some of the bigger WAs
*[13:42 SLT] Monica Gelfand: the vimpire thing is an annoyance
*[13:42 SLT] Monica Gelfand: sorry for the typo
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: Some things you can read about too, but you have to instinctively try them out for yourself, and feel them.
*[13:42 SLT] Nellie Telling: Get some garlic
*[13:42 SLT] Monica Gelfand: yes there is garlic now
*[13:42 SLT] sparkles Britton: i dont think security would work, welcome areas are full of griefers, it would be chaos!
*[13:42 SLT] Marianne McCann: Monica - ya. Blooodlines. I think also group invites and the like, too.
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: Bloodlines wasn't around when I was new. But it's definitely a cultural meme now.
*[13:43 SLT] Courteous Avedon: I guess we are saying that now that we have been here and "experienced" it is fantastic, but that it was rough and it was only luck that saved us. But that's part of the SL adventure
*[13:43 SLT] Monica Gelfand: yes Marianne
*[13:43 SLT] Marianne McCann: Check with Jack an Blondin on the WA stuff, though
*[13:43 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: Caledon hands out garlic, and man's their area with volunteers all the time
*[13:43 SLT] Jon Linden: too bad colton's not at this office hour; he might have some perspective on this for us, too
*[13:43 SLT] Marianne McCann: True, jon
*[13:43 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Typos are a known issue, viewer side. You don't get them in other word processors, as much.
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: Group invite spam I see so often when I enter a shop, and get the obligatory notecard, all that incremental behavior desensitizes, makes me NOT want to be part of the clutter.
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: Aye, Colton was here last week!
*[13:43 SLT] Monica Gelfand: lol Arawn
*[13:43 SLT] sparkles Britton: lol, bloodlines, and i have played, is a nightmare!!
*[13:43 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: dont tell me Colton is a vamp
*[13:43 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Maybe noobs could rez with Garlic already attached?
*[13:43 SLT] Marianne McCann: I want to say it's that 'first hour" thing - but the "first hour" seems to be equated with "UI" to many
*[13:43 SLT] Nellie Telling: I would like to point out that being invited to the slickers group and being involved in whats going on there,learning its history and appreciating it has changed my sl experience. Having residents involved in the welcome areas is a GREAT thing.
*[13:43 SLT] Monica Gelfand: that is a good idea, Arawn
*[13:44 SLT] Monica Gelfand: but it might frighten them
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: I understand there is so much competition, but I do wish more content creators stepped up to share best practices of how to run an inworld business and advertise in a fun-yet-NON-spammy way.
*[13:44 SLT] sparkles Britton: or just abig note on yr screen saying read all blue boxes!!
*[13:44 SLT] Marianne McCann: An really, first hour should also be the world and the information people gain in that first hour.
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: Nellie, fantastic. The Slickers have some great cultural roots, I learned a lot from Salazar Jack in my early times.
*[13:44 SLT] Monica Gelfand: yes sparkles
*[13:44 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: It might warn them, when they remove it
*[13:44 SLT] Nellie Telling: Jack is amazing!
*[13:44 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya. I really want to see a "slickers" level group in Bay City. It's had its growing pains
*[13:44 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I don't send invites or spam..I think my greeter just says welcome when they walk over the door mat
*[13:44 SLT] sparkles Britton: crashing, brb
*[13:44 SLT] Sophie Wellesley: thanks Lindens :) all..must rush to another meeting!
*[13:44 SLT] Marianne McCann: Sal is amazing, though
*[13:45 SLT] Monica Gelfand: bye sophie
*[13:45 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Thanks for coming, Sophie. Great input!
*[13:45 SLT] Jon Linden: be well, sophie
*[13:45 SLT] Kate Linden: Take care Sophie :)
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: Even as the world is so big now, there is so much room for each person to make a positive difference and work with others to "amplify that awesome", as I love to say.
*[13:45 SLT] Torley Linden: Bye Sophie, thanx for sharing!
*[13:45 SLT] Marianne McCann: An ya, Torley. The odd thing is that a lot of the things that have been introduced to businesses lately are turn offs to me. Greeters, automated group givers, etc. do not encourage me as a consumer
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: Mari, yeah, it's the same thing outside of Second Life. Imposing sales pressure on someone and crowding their mind with frustration is no way to win business!
*[13:46 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: it's worse when the greeter/invite thing gets you when you are nowhere near the shop
*[13:46 SLT] Marianne McCann: Exactly, Torley. Maybe more so in here, where we are accustomed to a "uncomplicated" consumer experience. You know, no one foloowing you saying "can I help you?"
*[13:47 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Second Life is a laboratory, and a great place for future businessmen to learn, not to use recordings on your automated dialers
*[13:47 SLT] Nellie Telling: I was thinking..and Im not sure if there is anything like this but having a sort of trades fair somewhere. An event where people can set up small booths displaying their goods. People doing building demos etc.
*[13:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: Good point, Arawn
*[13:47 SLT] Ericc Carter: along the same lines, I try to boycott businesses with traffic bots/campers on the land, Id like to see those types of bots disallowed
*[13:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: Nellie - I know there are some like that Hair Fair for one. I think there's a clothing one now
*[13:47 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: They can't be disallowed, until defined
*[13:47 SLT] Marianne McCann: I mean, going on right now
*[13:47 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Nellie, that's a great idea!
*[13:48 SLT] Ericc Carter: well lest define them then
*[13:48 SLT] Marianne McCann: Eric - I don't actively boycott them, but seeing them does make me less interested. Especially camping bots.
*[13:48 SLT] Monica Gelfand: is camping a significant percentage of the SL economy?
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: I like special touches that stand out, as opposed to barfy generica. When so many people are advertising in the same obnoxious ways, it's easy to tune them out.
*[13:49 SLT] Jaymes Kjeller: Ericc, I know this might sound a bit pessimistic, but boycotts only work if it's done on a wider basis. Which I would think is the intention, unless I'm mistaken.
*[13:49 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: plus the fact that i work in retail in RL..I know how annoying it can get if you just want to look around but keep getting interupted by someone asking if you are ok or need help...If I wanted help i would ask
*[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: I'm so very surprised to have the personal assistance of a shopkeeper in a store — not always possible, but for that reason, when it happens... a delight!
*[13:49 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: They're damaging to the reputation of Second Life's Traffic Stats.
*[13:49 SLT] Ericc Carter: quality products and or services will bring good natural traffic on their own
*[13:49 SLT] Marianne McCann: Excatly Bio. And here you take even the human factor out
*[13:49 SLT] Jon Linden: defining bots and proscribed uses of bots is something well outside the scope of this office hour; probably outside of any office hour
*[13:49 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I won't argue with that Arawn
*[13:49 SLT] Torley Linden: I generally find praising those you support instead of hating on those you don't like (given a limited amount of time and resources) is far more effective. :o)
*[13:49 SLT] Marianne McCann nods
*[13:50 SLT] Marianne McCann: I vote with my feet, or more accurately, with my L$.
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: When I go shopping I look for the whole experience, not just the boxes the stuff is in, but the overall vibe of the store, if it speaks "fun" and "approachability" to me... if it really compels me to have a lovely emotional experience.
*[13:50 SLT] Marianne McCann nods
*[13:50 SLT] Nellie Telling: There is SO much of the same thing in world. Being different makes all the...difference
*[13:50 SLT] Ericc Carter: (by "boycot" I realy just meant That I 'll go elsewhere, nothing formal)
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: This isn't to say fun doesn't look professional, e.g., Hoorenbeek's clean design... I'm into all styles of aesthetic cohesion.
*[13:50 SLT] Marianne McCann: Torley - in marketing, that's selling the emotion, not just the product
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: Yes! Exactly, Mari!
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: You spend money on intangibles that make you feel good.
*[13:51 SLT] Marianne McCann: I do that with my Bay City store. I want it to scream nostalgia
*[13:51 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I only have a shop in world cos I wanted a shop to layout, 99% of my sales are on xstreet
*[13:51 SLT] Monica Gelfand: a smarter aproach to marketing
*[13:51 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: All Commerce is Emotional, and it's the emotions that drive the effort of Industry
*[13:51 SLT] jjccc Coronet: i made a video on how to deal with bots in the welcome area if your intersted here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzIpUAA9Izg&feature=channel_page
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: That's one reason why Apple continues to succeed too. Beyond the at-face higher cost, they have such a nice ambience.
*[13:51 SLT] Marianne McCann: Thanks, jjccc
*[13:52 SLT] Monica Gelfand: thank you jjccc
*[13:52 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: There're Bots in Welcome Areas?
*[13:52 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: plus I only make my stuff for the fun of it..not for the money
*[13:52 SLT] Marianne McCann: group inviters, etc.
*[13:52 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Whoa. Bot beatdown.
*[13:52 SLT] Marianne McCann: An lets face it, this is SL. We want a pleasant experience." That's key for all of us, Linden an Resident
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: Yup!
*[13:52 SLT] Monica Gelfand: they are everywhere, Arawn. and they seem to be evolving
*[13:53 SLT] Jaymes Kjeller: Exactly, Marianne. That's what it should be all about.
*[13:53 SLT] Evil Titler v2: ChrissyJune Juliesse needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /13. 
*[13:53 SLT] Monica Gelfand: there are even vampire bots
*[13:53 SLT] Evil Titler v2: Marianne McCann has set a new title for ChrissyJune Juliesse! ChrissyJune will have to live with this until the next chance for it to be changed.
*[13:53 SLT] Nellie Telling: Looking at sl as a way to only earn income is a disgrace.
*[13:53 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I just wish ppl would feed me after midnight though
*[13:53 SLT] Monica Gelfand: lol Bio
*[13:53 SLT] Marianne McCann: Dana - maybe so. But I look at my land ownership as part of my entertainment budget
*[13:54 SLT] Marianne McCann: The money I make? It's a nice bonus. Sometimes it pays the tier, even
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: Bio, do you remember that scene in Gremlins 2 with Hulk Hogan? ;)
*[13:54 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: yeah
*[13:54 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: So, uhm, don't laugh...but are there any claer action items from this meeting? I've really lost track of all that was said.
*[13:55 SLT] Marianne McCann: We came back to the old saw "how do you make money in SL, did't we?"
*[13:55 SLT] Soothsayer Pleides: Thought it would be better at mine, so you'd see what I'm talking about
*[13:55 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I would expect action items to be developed post-meeting
*[13:55 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Sounds good.
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: Dreamin22: It tends to be a few thematic pillars with wild grass around! But historically, we've carried a lot of followup, even if it's small tweaks to improve an article.
*[13:55 SLT] Arawn Spitteler once met an avie, that earns her living in SL, but she's a meat-side celebrity already
*[13:55 SLT] Jeremy Linden: There usually aren't clearly defined action items, Dreamin22. We're here to hold an open discussion with you guys about helpful documentation for Second Life.
*[13:55 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ak ak, Jules!
*[13:55 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: action point #1 feed me after midnight and always remember to give me a bath
*[13:56 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Thanks Torley, Jeremy, and Monica.
*[13:56 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Dreamin22 Nitely has pinged you.
*[13:56 SLT] sparkles Britton: meat-sde lol i like it!!
*[13:56 SLT] Marianne McCann: Arawn - ya, I know a few who do. Thing is, it take the same sort of hard work and inspiration as RL
*[13:56 SLT] Monica Gelfand: lol bio .. cute avi
*[13:56 SLT] Bio Swindlehurst: I remember the days when I could make about 4k in under 2hrs dancing on a pole lol
*[13:56 SLT] Marianne McCann: TNSTAAFL
*[13:57 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I'll also be posting the transcript of the office hour on the public wiki. You cand find it, and all the previous transcripts here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
*[13:57 SLT] Ericc Carter: if I may chime in regarding the new adult continant, I suggest along with many others in the blog that it instead be pg area
*[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: It's both rewarding and challenging that Second Life offers so much in different ways. Your Second Life is what you make of it.
*[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: And re: AO stuff, best to share your thoughts in those forum threads about it.
*[13:57 SLT] Jaymes Kjeller: Not always, Dana.
*[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: (So they don't get lost.)
*[13:57 SLT] Jon Linden: what torley said
*[13:57 SLT] Dreamin22 Nitely: Thanks all for letting me listen in. A little different than last week.
*[13:58 SLT] Marianne McCann: Here's a doc issue of sorts to finish the hour
*[13:58 SLT] Monica Gelfand: the reclassifying and making of new zone seems rather messy
*[13:58 SLT] Marianne McCann: Can the phrase "AO" be somehow reclaimed?
*[13:58 SLT] Ericc Carter: moving businesses will be a nightmare pluss I think LL is underestimating how many residents are in SL primarily for adault entertainment
*[13:58 SLT] Monica Gelfand: I think it needs some more analysis before it is implimented
*[13:58 SLT] Marianne McCann: AO = Animation overrider, after all
*[13:58 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Heh. That one still gets me, too, Marianne.
*[13:58 SLT] Jon Linden: that's why there was the announcement, monica
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: I've heard that confusion before, Mari. I guess we'll see what people organically use.
*[13:59 SLT] Marianne McCann: Ya. Noted it in the bata grid blog
*[13:59 SLT] Marianne McCann: I think once the name of the continent is in place, maybe that will be where people go, term wise
*[13:59 SLT] Marianne McCann: Likewise, the confusion between "Mature" and "adult," which are often viewed as the same
*[13:59 SLT] Monica Gelfand: ok Jon
*[14:00 SLT] Marianne McCann: (even if we have specific differences here)
*[14:00 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Mature originally meant PG
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: I've heard "Bay City" used a lot, Mari... not so much "Agni" in common speech, that may be because of how Bay City was more clearly advertised.
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: Which points to how marketing helps with familiarizing terms, too. :]
*[14:00 SLT] Kate Linden: Nice seeing all of you. I need to take off. Enjoy the rest of your week. :)
*[14:00 SLT] Jon Linden: we appear to have hit the end of our hour -- thanks for coming, folks, and feel free to stick around! i've got to run
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Category: Documentation Office Hours