Open Source Meeting/2010-06-08

=== Agenda Tuesday, 08 June 2010 ===
# Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
# SL7B Volunteers
== Transcript ==
[14:01]	:	ok , let's start
[14:01]	:	LL has to do a lot to clean up its image to the residents.
[14:02]	:	do
[14:02]	:	I didn't create an agenda for today
[14:02]	:	I found a 100% reproducible crash, see SNOW-710
[14:02]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-710 
[#SNOW-710] ERROR: onBakedTextureMasksLoaded: No auxiliary source data for onBakedTextureMasksLoaded
[14:02]	:	but I guess we should talk about SG2.0 and SL7B
[14:03]	:	interesting Aleric
[14:03]	:	I created one about a half hour ago, but there's not much there
[14:03]	:	So far it only crashes me.
[14:03]	:	I'm just discovering this
[14:03]	:	could this be OpenJPEG specific?
[14:04]	:	Yes, because they other machine uses KDU. It's probably either 64bit or openjpeg or both
[14:04]	:	the*
[14:04]	:	I take in that jira emerald is the crasher and snowglobe is the crashee?
[14:04]	:	We can easily find out with a crash session :) just need lots of people together who can tell me what they run.
[14:05]	:	Tech: yes
[14:05]	:	hmm... could you tab that for a sec Aleric?
[14:05]	:	I think that emerald feature corresponds to RenderAvatarInvisible in other 1.x viewers
[14:05]	:	I'm not really ready to do a debug session right now
[14:06]	:	Anyway, I'm too busy with snow-596 ... it would nicest if some tester stepped in and figured out what exactly is crashed and what not.
[14:06]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-596 
[#SNOW-596] APR memory pool used in an error prone way
[14:06]	:	It was the workaround for when BigPapi(no long empolyed by LL) remove the code that permitted invisiable avatars by wearing a huge megaprim.
[14:07]	:	looks like we should create a "debug" session on day
[14:07]	:	not a bad idea
[14:07]	:	we havent done that in a while
[14:07]	:	I crashed with that SAME bug!
[14:07]	:	wtf
[14:07]	:	heheh....someone was testing here.
[14:08]	:	k, just 2 words on SG2.0: the number of "port" JIRA is down to 4 issues now
[14:08]	:	this is nice!
[14:08]	:	merov is there any thing that could be done to fix SNOW-708 ?
[14:08]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-708 
[#SNOW-708] update_version_files.py script not updating version information with SVN number
[14:09]	:	Aleric crash again...
[14:09]	:	WolfPup: I'm not completely sure: develop.py in 2.0 is different from 1.4 because Easybuild has not been merged in 2.0
[14:10]	:	I saw your JIRA and I need to do some digging to find out what's wrong
[14:10]	:	I think it's some windows-specific problem with running the py file
[14:10]	:	I'll look into it (assigning to me)
[14:10]	:	Thickbrick: possible
[14:11]	:	quite a bit of platform specific code in those scripts
[14:11]	:	anyway, I had a question!
[14:11]	:	for Thickbrick :)
[14:11]	:	what's up with SNOW-667?
[14:11]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-667 
[#SNOW-667] Port of SNOW-93 to SG 2.0 : Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:11]	:	I jsut attached a patch
[14:11]	:	W00t!
[14:11]	:	Awesome!
[14:11]	:	in openSL in the irc people running other os's do not have that issue
[14:12]	:	it's mostly done, but I couldn't find a place to put the checkbox in the "nearby chat" floater
[14:12]	:	moved that in pref?
[14:12]	:	I think Malarthi is using the invisible texture... I quickly patched my viewer to not crash anymore :/
[14:12]	:	Also, the unit (or whatever) test isn't building, but it never did.
[14:12]	:	not a great idea as it's nice to switch on/off on the fly
[14:13]	:	The checkbox exists both in the preferences floater and in the local chat floater in 1.4
[14:13]	:	well, the unit test is likely to be written again... or forgotten since it never built
[14:14]	:	it's not really a unit test, it is testing curl, and jsoncpp, and google.
[14:15]	:	hmmm...
[14:15]	:	Hmm..having the unit test depends on a internet connection...is that bad?
[14:15]	:	if anybody can figure out how to build the unit test, or trim it down so it builds that would help.
[14:15]	:	Just being able to start the viewer requires an internet connection
[14:15]	:	it's terrible if we decide to one day enforce a rule like "rollback if unit test failt"
[14:15]	:	Techwolf, yes, AND it goes against the definition of "unit"
[14:16]	:	yeap: according to the definition of unit tests, they are supposed to test code independently of everything
[14:16]	:	that's how "tut" is conceived
[14:17]	:	I notice "tut" is in the sorce tree of the resentelly relised LLSD code.
[14:17]	:	yes, it's what we use for unit test
[14:17]	:	as you know (we do have some in the viewer)
[14:18]	:	But tut is not in the source tree of the cleint.
[14:18]	:	Merov: does Linden use the unit tests a lot internally for testing?
[14:18]	:	yes, quite a bit
[14:19]	:	most bugs though are in the "integration" category
[14:19]	:	anyway, on SNOW-667: great news Thickbrick
[14:19]	:	since you're here Pixel, I saw you commented on SNOW-666
[14:19]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-666 
[#SNOW-666] Port of SNOW-215 to SG 2.0 : OGP Interop login/teleport
[14:20]	:	that number was sure to doom that project
[14:20]	:	My first comment on that was....
[14:20]	 	offers to switch with SNOW-667
[14:20]	:	so, I've no news on an internal OGP/VWRAP enabled grid for the moment
[14:20]	:	"VWRAP is now officially evil"
[14:20]	:	:-)
[14:21]	:	Merov: ok. my other project is going well, so i might eventually be able to squeeze in doing the port
[14:21]	:	good!
[14:22]	:	would it help even in the absence of interop grid to test? I mean, will it be useful to some OpenSim folks to get that feature in?
[14:22]	:	Merov: possibly to hurliman, yes
[14:22]	:	I think it's partly a chicken and egg thing
[14:23]	:	but he has other features he needs (interop related)
[14:23]	:	yes, like SNOW-77
[14:23]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-77 
[#SNOW-77] S3 map shows main grid map even when on the beta grid
[14:23]	:	Thick: u r right, it is.
[14:24]	:	i opened a coupla jira for his other features he wanted they r all tagged with Introp
[14:24]	:	Interop
[14:24]	:	he's been pestering me on this. We're trying to contact the initial patch writer though :/
[14:24]	:	k, another big one is SNOW-669
[14:24]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-669 
[#SNOW-669] Port of SNOW-238 to SG 2.0 : Add Socks 5 Proxy Support
[14:25]	:	Robin, news?
[14:25]	:	(about SNOW-77) according to the comments by jhurliman and Joshua Linden, having this as a capability is probably nice for the far future, but for now the solution in 2.0.2 is good enough (and we can commit *that* right away)
[14:26]	 	checks 77
[14:27]	:	I don't understans that form Hurliman's last comment Thick
[14:27]	:	he said it here in the meeting when we talked about it
[14:27]	:	that as far as he's concerned, a login response is good enough.
[14:28]	:	it would be pretty easy to implement as a cap, as long as the cap could fit easily what the current S3 thing does
[14:28]	:	I didn't understand it that way but I sure can merge 2.0.2 solution for sure
[14:28]	:	and see if that satisfies him
[14:28]	:	his last comment is probably a reference to hypergrid
[14:28]	:	I think the login solution is because the map is not part of the region domain its a grid wide thing, with the exception of hypergrid
[14:29]	:	and i think hypergrid would need some work to fully support http maps when each sim might not know its neighbours http map source?
[14:29]	:	we spend a lot of time fussing with the definition of what 'grid' means in vwrap <insert eye roll>
[14:29]	:	Robin: correct. a LOT of work
[14:30]	:	k, back on "agenda" or rather last question
[14:30]	:	Robin, news, on SNOW-669?
[14:31]	:	well... may be Robin needs time to think...
[14:31]	:	Ok... SL7B
[14:32]	:	me remembers
[14:32]	:	go ahead Robin
[14:32]	:	ah no, currently i fully blame Joshua for why i've not got to working on that yet
[14:32]	:	Pixel: you're taking it too far: I still have to eat!
[14:33]	:	Aleric: i'm cocooning
[14:33]	:	Oh! I thought it was a cockroach :)
[14:33]	:	Chris Collins is after me finishing that off soon as well
[14:33]	:	it is in my work queue
[14:34]	:	k, well, I'm going through the 50 or so JIRA logged against SG2.0
[14:34]	:	my goal though is to get to a minimal list so we can get visibility on an official release date
[14:34]	:	i'm comming to the end of 2 blocking projects and i've got one more i need to make progress on, then i'm getting some free time
[14:34]	:	that's why I've been pestering you here and there (sorry about that...)
[14:35]	:	looks like we're making progress though :)
[14:35]	:	next: Oz on SL7B and then a bit on SNOW-596
[14:35]	:	Merov, do you have a general idea when is the next LL reelase (and is it 2.0.2 or 2.1?)
[14:36]	:	next release will be 2.1
[14:36]	:	First, I want to let everyone know what a great job that Robin and Aleric have done on setting up an exhibit for SL7B
[14:36]	:	I don't have a date to share
[14:36]	:	Be prepare for all the screaming when 1.23.5 will be blocked when 2.1 is out.
[14:36]	:	we're not supposed to take pictures, and are limited on the number of people we can bring in to help build, but it's really well done
[14:37]	:	they check your bag when you get in?
[14:37]	:	lol
[14:37]	:	:)
[14:37]	:	heheh
[14:37]	:	yea but i think i got browny points though ;-)
[14:37]	:	you did
[14:37]	:	anyway... two issues for this group:
[14:37]	:	when i asked if my helper could be given access, and they asked who, and I said Oz Linden, i got an immeidate "yes mam!, right away" hehe
[14:38]	 	lol
[14:38]	:	1) It would be good if we could get people to sign up for time in the "booth" to answer questions
[14:38]	:	"my assistant"
[14:38]	:	:)
[14:38]	:	Robin/Aleric/Oz: If you need any sculpties made for the display, I can help with that (and that doesn't require adding a group membership...)
[14:38]	:	hey - that's completely accurate - Robin and Aleric have done much much more than I have
[14:38]	:	Aleric your snowflake is amazing to sit on top of with 512m draw distance
[14:38]	:	I think there are currently 3 prims left :/
[14:39]	:	we could free some unnecessary prims if we really need to
[14:39]	:	we may need to find a few somewhere...
[14:40]	:	We've got some time to organize who would be willing to be available when - it's not absolutely essential that someone be there, but it would be good, I think
[14:40]	:	oh and bring sun glasses when you visit ;-/
[14:40]	 	< is always wearing his shaed :)
[14:40]	:	LL should ban "glow" at LL sponsored events not mega prims
[14:40]	:	I chart of somekind would be nice. Otherwise, I have to just drop by when I have time.
[14:41]	:	I've got an idea or two on freebies we can give out... I'm getting the requisite approvals - more on that soon
[14:41]	 	is definitely volunteering to man the booth
[14:41]	:	lol robin...amen
[14:41]	:	Is it that bad there? I hav'nt tried to visite the SLB7
[14:41]	:	its not 1/2 as bad as last year, where the sims were set to midnight
[14:41]	:	Maybe I can set up a calendar? I'll look into it, but if you're willing, drop me a msg
[14:42]	:	(email preferred)
[14:42]	 	< if he build any thing and has glow turned on never takes it above .25
[14:42]	:	access is limited for the moment Tech
[14:42]	:	*I* haven't been there :(
[14:42]	:	really?
[14:42]	:	god tp your way in
[14:42]	:	LOL
[14:42]	 	lol
[14:42]	:	cheat
[14:43]	:	I could copy the whole sim and rebuild it here if you want, Merov? :)
[14:43]	:	haha
[14:43]	:	Second item - assuming that I get the approvals I need, I'll need some simple scripting done. volunteers also needed for that
[14:43]	:	heh
[14:43]	:	me :D
[14:43]	:	what kind of scripting?
[14:43]	:	Ooo...that is a good idea. After SLB7 is done, move the exibit to here.
[14:43]	:	yeah...what kind
[14:43]	:	<< not good with vehicle functions
[14:44]	:	I hope is not a nerd moped.
[14:44]	:	a special purpose teleport pad, and an object hander-outer
[14:44]	:	:-)
[14:44]	:	on to 596?
[14:44]	:	the teleport pad shouldnt be to hard, just a sit that makes the user thing they are teleporting
[14:44]	:	*think even
[14:45]	:	Plety of tp scripts on the wiki out there.
[14:45]	:	there are loads of free and even wiki'd scripts for those
[14:45]	:	yeah
[14:45]	:	anyway... I'll have details soon... let me know if you're interested
[14:45]	:	yep
[14:45]	 	sees Aleric fidgeting...
[14:45]	:	I'm definitely interested :D
[14:45]	:	:p
[14:45]	:	take it away Aleric
[14:45]	:	SNOW-596
[14:45]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-596 
[#SNOW-596] APR memory pool used in an error prone way
[14:45]	:	i even have a tp on sit script
[14:46]	:	I haven't looked at your patch yet Aleric
[14:46]	:	Ok, I have worked on this full time this week... and in the end chosen a solution for the problem that I asked help with: what to do with the one problem that surfaced as a result of this code.
[14:47]	:	the one with sockets?
[14:47]	:	The problem is described in the jira: two different threads create an object with a mutex that uses apr pools, and two thread can delete that object.
[14:47]	:	is this the SLPlugin monster you were battling?
[14:47]	:	I think Alerics analysis and method of solution is very good
[14:48]	:	As a result, the APR pool can theoretically get corrupted. The whole idea of the patch was to find this and prevent it. So, I didn't want to make some sort of super special case.
[14:48]	:	Anyway... everything (including SNOW-593) now works, except for one thing:
[14:48]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-593 
[#SNOW-593] An API to wrap objects for thread-safe access.
[14:49]	:	As soon as I apply the snow-596 patch (with or without the debugging one), the plugins stop working.
[14:49]	:	I NEED HELP, with debugging that :p
[14:49]	:	Aleric remind me, did 593 address the A-B B-A type races?
[14:49]	:	As has been said before (SNOW-440 for example), debugging plugins is near impossible.
[14:49]	:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-440 
[#SNOW-440] Media plugins have no way to log errors.
[14:50]	:	Aleric: I can do tests and debug on Mac
[14:50]	:	Robin: no - more would be needed to detect that. Then you need to make sure you wrap ALL locks that are used in the code. But it's a good start.
[14:50]	:	Robin, that would require a lock heirarchy, and I think that to enforce that in code would take a really serious restructuring.
[14:51]	:	i think in the current code we only avoid it by carfully crafted escape routes ;-/
[14:51]	:	Merov: THat would be great... the jira describes what you have to patch, but that includes libcwd, which might not work on a mac... That is, it should work if you disable everything except debug output...
[14:51]	:	carefully crafted == point of failure
[14:51]	:	support for* libcwd
[14:52]	:	well, eventually, we'll have to bite that bullet won't we?
[14:52]	:	Aleric, do i *need* libcwd for this? not that i've got anything aginst it
[14:52]	:	Lock Heirarchy as in http://www.drdobbs.com/high-performance-computing/204801163
[14:52]	 	notes that libcwd itself has the A-B B-A lock detection (for internally used locks) :)
[14:53]	:	helgrid can detct that as well, but its like valgrid on downers
[14:54]	:	man, that's some patch...
[14:54]	 	has to head out to catch a train
[14:55]	:	you didn't expect it to "+1" it in session, did you?
[14:55]	:	:)
[14:55]	:	i used to be quite fond of valgrind
[14:55]	:	Maybe I should get "commit at will" status for the 1.4 trunk :p
[14:55]	:	heheh
[14:55]	:	Oz disappeared...
[14:56]	:	guess he wasn't kidding about the train..
[14:56]	:	they're not kidding about train in Boston
[14:56]	:	oh valgrid is useful, but it takes a lot of CPU and some taming with the viewer
[14:56]	:	Aleric, can you describe what are the general changes your patch makes?
[14:57]	:	k, Aleric: sign me up to go through 596 on Mac
[14:57]	:	I'll report what I find and if I come up with a brilliant idea, will share
[14:58]	:	I'll try to build it too, now that's I'm mostly done with -667
[14:58]	:	that's a much interesting problem than porting 1.x and cleaning build script for sure :p
[14:58]	:	o/ just applied for a new job
[14:58]	 	is easily distracted by shiny http textures
[14:58]	 	rejoices with Robin
[14:59]	:	Merov: Ok - I think your best bet might be to try it without the libcwd stuff first - although then the patches might not apply clean. I can't give you instructions on how to compile libcwd on macos, unless MacOS is really just bsd (unix) ...
[14:59]	:	(last commit to viewer-external turned on http textures by default, and added handling of redirects)
[14:59]	:	But I'm almost certain you'd have to configure it with --disable-everthing
[15:00]	:	Aleric, i'll fire up a ssh tomorrow and apply all the patches and get a linux build done, then try to fight a plugin for you to see what is broken
[15:00]	:	Aleric: Darwin is BSD as the very base
[15:00]	 	looks at her watch, and waves goodbye
[15:00]	:	k, I actually need to run myself (picking kids @ school)
[15:01]	:	ok, make sure I'm online on IRC when you start to compile/install libcwd, don't want you to get frustrated at that point already :)
[15:01]	:	will be online later
[15:01]	:	Aleric what version do i need, i've been there before?
[15:01]	:	I'll look out for you Aleric :)
[15:02]	:	Robin: just get 1.0.4
[15:02]	:	if I get into trouble
[15:02]	:	Thanks for the meeting guys, nice turn out today :)
[15:02]	:	bye
[15:02]	:	bye
[15:02]	:	see you next time
 
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