Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-08-07

[2014/08/07 14:59] Caleb Linden: hiya
[2014/08/07 15:00] Inara Breen: Hi, Caleb
[2014/08/07 15:00] Mæstro (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/08/07 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi caleb
[2014/08/07 15:00] Inara Breen: Welcome back, Maestro. Happily refreshed, I hope!
[2014/08/07 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2014/08/07 15:00] Jenna Felton: hello Caleb, Maestro and everyoe who came too :)
[2014/08/07 15:00] MartinRJ Fayray: hello Lindens and rex
[2014/08/07 15:00] Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Margithe Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/08/07 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi jenna
[2014/08/07 15:00] Mæstro (maestro.linden): Thanks Inara.. it was a good trip
[2014/08/07 15:00] Rex Cronon: hi martinrj
[2014/08/07 15:01] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2014/08/07 15:02] Zenith Subchair final p: whispers: Hi Margithe Resident! Touch me for Menu. Say /1a to Adjust.
[2014/08/07 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So the agenda is pretty quiet this week: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/08/07 15:03] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I guess I didn't miss much :)
[2014/08/07 15:04] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/08/07 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Howdy
[2014/08/07 15:04] Duckie Dickins: we didn't want to break too many things while you were gone.
[2014/08/07 15:04] Rex Cronon: your vacation is over already?
[2014/08/07 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, all too soon
[2014/08/07 15:05] Inara Breen: Time flies when you're having fun.
[2014/08/07 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): So in terms of rolls... we only had a pretty minor maintenance project go into all three RC channels, this week
[2014/08/07 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there are some minor bug fixes in that project, and the only one with a public Jira association is BUG-6657
[2014/08/07 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which was some obscure LSL json parsing issue
[2014/08/07 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that 'fix' was just to roll back the BUG-6466 fix, but there's a proper fix pending which should fix both issues
[2014/08/07 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Caleb and I have been working on 'infrastructure' updates recently, for some of the central services
[2014/08/07 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which mostly involves making sure they still work properly after a big OS update
[2014/08/07 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so.. nothing shiny there
[2014/08/07 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't have any other news - how have you all been?
[2014/08/07 15:10] Whirly Fizzle: Has anyone noticed any weirdness lately (last week-2 weeks.....) with attachments after teleport? Namely, HUDs being quickly detached then reattached after a TP to a different region but after they reattach they show as worn on an invalid attachent point in inventory until you click them. Only seems to happen on AIS3 viewers (but its intermittant so not 100% sure of that)
[2014/08/07 15:11] Rex Cronon: it seems that we r still alive maestro:)
[2014/08/07 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'm glad to see that Rex :)
[2014/08/07 15:11] Caleb Linden: huh, interesting (on the attachments after tp)
[2014/08/07 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that's interesting, whirly - do scripts think that they've reattached?
[2014/08/07 15:11] Whirly Fizzle: Yes
[2014/08/07 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me is wondering if it could just be in the interest list
[2014/08/07 15:12] Theresa Tennyson: I've had HUD's briefly move or detach after sim crossings in vehicles for some time.
[2014/08/07 15:12] Theresa Tennyson: It doesn't happen all the time though.
[2014/08/07 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: The showing worn on invalid attach point is new though
[2014/08/07 15:12] Inara Breen: /me avoids HUDs
[2014/08/07 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that sounds like it's worth investigating.. how often does it happen?
[2014/08/07 15:13] Duckie Dickins: yes...death to huds...bring on client side gui widgets.
[2014/08/07 15:13] Duckie Dickins: :)
[2014/08/07 15:14] Whirly Fizzle: Also, its a 100% repro when you're wearing the FS bridge attachment on V3. The bridge is scripted to detatch on region change if you arnt on FS. It used to work. Now it doesn't detatch - well, it does detatch but it still shows as worn on invalid attach point in inventory. That only repros on AIS3 viewers
[2014/08/07 15:14] Rex Cronon: u want client side scripts duckie:)
[2014/08/07 15:14] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Strange
[2014/08/07 15:15] Whirly Fizzle: That started the same time as the other HUD attachment weirdness I think
[2014/08/07 15:15] Caleb Linden: around when AISv3 was introduced?
[2014/08/07 15:15] Duckie Dickins: hehe no..just a client side health bar controlled by LSL.
[2014/08/07 15:15] Theresa Tennyson: There seems to be weirdness with detaching when you aren't using the "detach" command itself.
[2014/08/07 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): such as when wearing a different object on the same attachment point without using 'add'?
[2014/08/07 15:16] Rex Cronon: it could have something to do with these experience tools?
[2014/08/07 15:16] Whirly Fizzle: I think so Caleb but not 100% sure
[2014/08/07 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that seems possible to me, Rex
[2014/08/07 15:16] Theresa Tennyson: ex rel BUG-6487
[2014/08/07 15:18] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there was a related change here as well: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/14#14.07.18.292162
[2014/08/07 15:19] Drsebastien: hi
[2014/08/07 15:19] Whirly Fizzle: Yeah I know. I was wondering about that too.
[2014/08/07 15:19] Rex Cronon: hi
[2014/08/07 15:19] Caleb Linden: are the regions busy when this happens?
[2014/08/07 15:19] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, though I think that was more about the interest list message 'attachment is gone' arriving to the viewer before the 'attachment arrives' sometimes
[2014/08/07 15:19] Whirly Fizzle: No
[2014/08/07 15:20] Whirly Fizzle: Well, the FS bridge repro will happen between any 2 regions. Even 2 empty ones.
[2014/08/07 15:20] Drsebastien: i can't enter you mean?
[2014/08/07 15:20] MartinRJ Fayray: my lion avatar's HUD always kind-of
[2014/08/07 15:20] MartinRJ Fayray: 'dies' after a teleport
[2014/08/07 15:20] MartinRJ Fayray: meaning, I cannot detach it
[2014/08/07 15:20] Drsebastien: ok
[2014/08/07 15:21] Drsebastien: restart the program
[2014/08/07 15:21] MartinRJ Fayray: the viewer won't let me detach it until Irelog
[2014/08/07 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: Can you wear it though? Its probably already detached really
[2014/08/07 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: Wear then take off again
[2014/08/07 15:21] MartinRJ Fayray: no, cannot attach it either
[2014/08/07 15:21] Drsebastien: ha, it's the administrator that do it like that
[2014/08/07 15:22] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): What happens when you relog - is it gone then?
[2014/08/07 15:22] MartinRJ Fayray: yes
[2014/08/07 15:22] Duckie Dickins: sounds like you're bugged until you do a character test
[2014/08/07 15:22] MartinRJ Fayray: it's been like that for a couple of SL versions
[2014/08/07 15:22] Drsebastien: yes, it's will be good. because it's a conection's problem
[2014/08/07 15:23] Whirly Fizzle: So recentish Martin?
[2014/08/07 15:23] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): is it a temporary attachment, Martin?
[2014/08/07 15:23] Drsebastien: what?
[2014/08/07 15:23] MartinRJ Fayray: no, started about two months ago. no it's just a regular HUD
[2014/08/07 15:23] Drsebastien: don't know
[2014/08/07 15:24] MartinRJ Fayray: maybe more recently. but started definitely this summer
[2014/08/07 15:24] Drsebastien: ok.
[2014/08/07 15:24] Duckie Dickins: you sure it's not that RLV collar? :)
[2014/08/07 15:25] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I guess it would be worth a Jira... I'm not aware of another case like that
[2014/08/07 15:25] MartinRJ Fayray: not this avatar. and this is not an rlv collar (anymore)
[2014/08/07 15:25] Drsebastien: i don't know
[2014/08/07 15:25] MartinRJ Fayray: kk will file a Jira about it
[2014/08/07 15:26] Drsebastien: gyet manmanw
[2014/08/07 15:26] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, thanks
[2014/08/07 15:27] MartinRJ Fayray: ...could even just be a corrupted cache...
[2014/08/07 15:27] Duckie Dickins: well I say still do a character test and then try it
[2014/08/07 15:28] Drsebastien: whaat?
[2014/08/07 15:28] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): It's not obvious to me that the viewer's cache would affect attachment removal, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try clearing it if you have suspicions
[2014/08/07 15:29] MartinRJ Fayray: ok
[2014/08/07 15:31] Whirly Fizzle: I passed you a copy of the bridge Maestro. Wear it (don't add), it will attach to center 2. Check its showing correctly worn in inventory and then teleport and see if it then shows as worn on invalid attach point
[2014/08/07 15:32] Caleb Linden: may i get one too?
[2014/08/07 15:32] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oh wait, is it the bridge itself that appears to be at an invalid point, or some other attachment of mine?
[2014/08/07 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I remember seeing in the past that the bridge would try to connect to point 128 or something, which is "allowed" but isn't properly defined
[2014/08/07 15:33] Rex Cronon: why would u want to attach a bridge to yourself?
[2014/08/07 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: Its aninterface between scripts & the viewer
[2014/08/07 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: *an interface
[2014/08/07 15:33] Rex Cronon: lol. i thought was an actual bridge:)
[2014/08/07 15:34] MartinRJ Fayray: hah
[2014/08/07 15:34] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): heh, that would be rather unreasonable
[2014/08/07 15:34] Duckie Dickins: yes..perfect for controlling client side gui widgets. :P
[2014/08/07 15:34] Caleb Linden: the visual of a bridge popping out of the torso
[2014/08/07 15:34] Theresa Tennyson: It's actually a big rock.
[2014/08/07 15:34] Whirly Fizzle: http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_bridge
[2014/08/07 15:35] Whirly Fizzle: Its the Library rock yeah lol
[2014/08/07 15:36] Rex Cronon: thanks whirly:)
[2014/08/07 15:36] #Firestorm LSL Bridge v2.17: <bridgeURL>http://sim7427.aditi.lindenlab.com:12046/cap/56c0a4e2-5a8e-72ab-a0b1-a25e5aabd614</bridgeURL><bridgeAuth>7a155a72-c631-ca20-4d0d-cc3de3d066ce</bridgeAuth><bridgeVer>2.17</bridgeVer>
[2014/08/07 15:38] Rex Cronon: u can't be moved when wearing this bridge and using firestorm?
[2014/08/07 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Ah, it looks like the script itself doesn't call llAttachToAvatar() - it must be that the viewer attaches the bridge
[2014/08/07 15:38] Whirly Fizzle: Only if you enable movelock, which is a bridge function
[2014/08/07 15:38] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (so I'm not sure which attachment point it would typically use)
[2014/08/07 15:38] Whirly Fizzle: The viewer force attaches the bridge yes
[2014/08/07 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: Well, the viewer attaches the library rcok and then injects the script into it
[2014/08/07 15:39] Whirly Fizzle: *rock
[2014/08/07 15:40] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay
[2014/08/07 15:40] Whirly Fizzle: That bridge uses center 2 (HUD)
[2014/08/07 15:42] Whirly Fizzle: If you're on Firestorm and havnt disabled the bridge, the bridge is always worn, the viewer keeps it force attached. When you're on a different viewer, its scripted to detatch on region change.
[2014/08/07 15:42] Whirly Fizzle: You can just manually detatch it ofc
[2014/08/07 15:42] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, so I probably wouldn't' be able to reproduce the issue with the official viewer
[2014/08/07 15:43] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): as the bridge would remove itself after the crossing
[2014/08/07 15:43] Whirly Fizzle: You will.
[2014/08/07 15:43] Whirly Fizzle: Its supposed to detatch on TP on the official viewer, but now it shows as worn on invalid attach point in inventory after a TP
[2014/08/07 15:43] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, okay
[2014/08/07 15:47] Lucia Nightfire: I miss anything important?
[2014/08/07 15:48] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Not really, we were just discussing some reported issues of attachments getting into weird states after region crossings
[2014/08/07 15:48] Rex Cronon: read the log...
[2014/08/07 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: I was publishing a crap game demo and forgot about the meeting.
[2014/08/07 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: *crappy
[2014/08/07 15:48] Rex Cronon: the firestorm bridge seems to have attachment problems
[2014/08/07 15:48] MartinRJ Fayray: any news on the email issue, Maestro?
[2014/08/07 15:48] MartinRJ Fayray: (the 1&1 issue for German users)
[2014/08/07 15:49] Caleb Linden: lemme check
[2014/08/07 15:49] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): No, I don't have any news on that. I haven't heard anything, so I presume they're still blocking SL
[2014/08/07 15:49] MartinRJ Fayray: I explained it to Oz at the Server/Sim/Scripting meeting, and he said he wasn't quite sure which LL department would be in charge for that
[2014/08/07 15:49] MartinRJ Fayray: he said, Engineering is clearly not
[2014/08/07 15:50] MartinRJ Fayray: 1&1 told me they would like to talk with someone from LL directly
[2014/08/07 15:50] Caleb Linden: yeah, me neither. the last bit was to find the email of the bounced email or something
[2014/08/07 15:50] Rex Cronon: the pr department?
[2014/08/07 15:50] MartinRJ Fayray: they have 20.000 spam trap hits from certain SL IPs a day
[2014/08/07 15:51] MartinRJ Fayray: probably due to users who don't use their 1&1 freemail accounts anymore, and have dead SL accounts
[2014/08/07 15:51] MartinRJ Fayray: (1&1's 'GMX.net" is the larges freemail provider in Germany)
[2014/08/07 15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, that seems likely. Either due to offline IM messages or due to LSL scripts sending 'spammy' messages
[2014/08/07 15:52] Lucia Nightfire: I finally found a workaround for BUG-2301, it involves using a grid sized prim to rez my HUD at 4095m Z so it isn't invisible when it gets attached.
[2014/08/07 15:53] MartinRJ Fayray: is there a technical way to stop this spamming to dead email accounts?
[2014/08/07 15:53] MartinRJ Fayray: e.g. make the SL server 'remember' when the email server sends a reply about a non existant email address, and don't send any more emails to those addresses
[2014/08/07 15:55] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Maybe? I'm not sure why that would cause them to block all email from SL sim hosts to valid email addresses, though
[2014/08/07 15:55] Duckie Dickins: they might be invalid email addresses that got deleted possibly?
[2014/08/07 15:55] MartinRJ Fayray: btw all my SL accounts are affected. all providers I use for my emails are part of the United Internet company
[2014/08/07 15:55] Rex Cronon: i think objects for sl that have weird names?
[2014/08/07 15:56] Duckie Dickins: but since the SL account says my email address is avatar@email.com the object will keep trying to send offlines there even after that account is deleted
[2014/08/07 15:56] Rex Cronon: from sl*
[2014/08/07 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: Do you still get group notices as offlines Martin?
[2014/08/07 15:57] MartinRJ Fayray: as far as I can tell, approximately over 50% of all German SL users are affected
[2014/08/07 15:57] MartinRJ Fayray: no Whirly
[2014/08/07 15:57] Duckie Dickins: now if SL sent out a newsletter monthly or something...they could use the bounced email data to match against their avatar account data to flag which email addresses are dead.
[2014/08/07 15:57] Caleb Linden: that's a great idea
[2014/08/07 15:58] MartinRJ Fayray: in German SL forums many residents said that they talked to 1&1 support, and all they're telling them is that LL didn't contact them yet
[2014/08/07 15:58] Margithe: make sure to include something worthwhile in that monthly letter ;)
[2014/08/07 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, it seems that right now gmx.de simply blacklists the IP addresses associated with SL simulators
[2014/08/07 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so I think any type of message that comes from a sim would be affected
[2014/08/07 15:58] MartinRJ Fayray: their email is mailsecurity@1und1.de :3
[2014/08/07 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): In one case (I think it was with AT&T), the ISP had blacklisted some sim host IPs but not others
[2014/08/07 15:59] Rex Cronon: maybe some sl user(s) objects to send spame emails?
[2014/08/07 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so restarting the sim such that it started up on a different host would 'randomly' make the issue disappear or reappear
[2014/08/07 15:59] Rex Cronon: used objects*
[2014/08/07 15:59] MartinRJ Fayray: it seems that at least one other German email provider uses the same block list from 1&1
[2014/08/07 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that seems plausible, Rex
[2014/08/07 15:59] Margithe: The problem with sending out newsletters is that at least EU laws require it to be opt-in. So it's nothing LL just can start doing
[2014/08/07 15:59] MartinRJ Fayray: (t-online, I think)
[2014/08/07 16:00] Whirly Fizzle: I was just curious because some of the people on BUG-6591 said it was only avatar to avatar IMs they didn't get offline. They still received group notices and Ims from scripted objects
[2014/08/07 16:00] MartinRJ Fayray: yes
[2014/08/07 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I wonder if that's the case like what I mentioned, WHirly
[2014/08/07 16:00] MartinRJ Fayray: they blocked some IPs, not all SL IPs
[2014/08/07 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): where only certain sim hosts are IP banned
[2014/08/07 16:01] Margithe: on the other hand, tie it with the next ToS, and those that don't allow letters to be sent to them, get no IM's to mailbox.
[2014/08/07 16:01] Margithe: or any other SL spam.
[2014/08/07 16:01] Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody. have a nice day
[2014/08/07 16:01] rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2014/08/07 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes, I have to go too
[2014/08/07 16:01] Caleb Linden: ciao ciao
[2014/08/07 16:01] Nal (nalates.urriah): bye All
[2014/08/07 16:01] MartinRJ Fayray: take care, everyone
[2014/08/07 16:01] Whirly Fizzle: Thanks Lindens
[2014/08/07 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ideally the ISP would deliver any mail to your address, and let you decide if it's spam or not
[2014/08/07 16:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/08/07 16:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): because one man's spam is another man's ham
[2014/08/07 16:02] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, thanks for coming everybody!
[2014/08/07 16:02] Duckie Dickins: thanks for the meeting Maestro..Caleb.