Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-05-01

[2014/05/01 15:00] Jenna Felton: i think i heard the inventory is not more imported to aditi
[2014/05/01 15:00] Inara Breen: Hi, Caleb, Baker, Maestro!
[2014/05/01 15:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/05/01 15:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and yes Jenna, that's a known issue at the moment
[2014/05/01 15:00] Jenna Felton: hello all i missed
[2014/05/01 15:01] Fenix Eldritch: Hello, Lindens!
[2014/05/01 15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): not more.. Is it true? I am sad to hear about it..
[2014/05/01 15:01] RedDaemons: Hello all
[2014/05/01 15:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Hi Maestro
[2014/05/01 15:01] Jenna Felton: this explains also why my inventory was not imported Yuzuru :)
[2014/05/01 15:01] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Here's the bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-5563
[2014/05/01 15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/05/01 15:01] Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2014/05/01 15:02] Inara Breen: Hey, Rex!
[2014/05/01 15:02] RedDaemons: I am here because of this bug too.
[2014/05/01 15:02] rcdsQueChatLog: Rex Cronon, you can read the log here:
 http://rcds.nfshost.com/ques_view_chatLog.php?queOwner=llsl%3ARex+Cronon&queName=chatLog&pg=1
[2014/05/01 15:02] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/05/01 15:02] Rex Cronon: hi inara
[2014/05/01 15:02] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex.
[2014/05/01 15:03] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[2014/05/01 15:03] Jenna Felton: thank you Maestro
[2014/05/01 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): let's get started on the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/05/01 15:04] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the only topic I have is about the updates this week
[2014/05/01 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): in terms of simulator updates, all four channels were updated
[2014/05/01 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the main channel got the maintenance project that was previously on Magnum
[2014/05/01 15:05] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): aside from crash fixes, the only visible fix was to address BUG-5533
[2014/05/01 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so now it should be safe to teleport with llTeleportAgent() (that is, it shouldn't break scripts in attachments)
[2014/05/01 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there was nothing 'new' for the RC channels, but the AISv3 project was updated to get the changes that went to the main channel
[2014/05/01 15:06] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and now all three RCs are on the AISv3 project, once again
[2014/05/01 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): there was a non-simulator update too
[2014/05/01 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Those group chat changes from Simon went out to part of agni
[2014/05/01 15:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): when will the viewer ode to suppoer AISv3 be available?
[2014/05/01 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the ones that we've been doing mini pile-ons for
[2014/05/01 15:07] Lucia Nightfire: did they go out for groups starting with 7 in teh group key? heh
[2014/05/01 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's available now, Kallista
[2014/05/01 15:07] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Release/3.7.7.289441
[2014/05/01 15:08] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): actually, it was for groups starting with group_id 'b'
[2014/05/01 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: then that hiccup for 7 groups was unrelated I guess, heh
[2014/05/01 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, I suppose so.. there were some general issues with the grid yesterday.. maybe it was related to that?
[2014/05/01 15:09] Lucia Nightfire: its was teh day before that
[2014/05/01 15:09] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, Simon's been looking at the performance of that group chat server
[2014/05/01 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and it seems to be running fine
[2014/05/01 15:10] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so there are plans to update the rest of the group chat servers to the new version early next week
[2014/05/01 15:11] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): we won't go so far as to say that group chat has been totally fixed, though - Simon has identified some other changes which could improve performance further
[2014/05/01 15:11] Whirly Fizzle: I was curious if the fact the official viewer sends typing start messages to group chats when it isn't needed for group chats could cause extra problems with group chat lag? This change was made as part of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1975 . When FS merged in that storm, Ansariel changed it to only send typing notifications for P2P sessions. What does the sim do when it receives typing start messages from avatars in a group chat?
[2014/05/01 15:12] Simon Linden: I'm pretty sure typing start / stop messages are dropped for group chat
[2014/05/01 15:12] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me sure hopes so
[2014/05/01 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Ahh was it fixed?
[2014/05/01 15:12] Whirly Fizzle: Hum can your check? FS devs say its not fixed on V3 yet
[2014/05/01 15:13] Simon Linden: are you asking about the viewer or server?
[2014/05/01 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: The viewer sends them
[2014/05/01 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think he means that the simulator doesn't forward those messages to the group chat service
[2014/05/01 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: ahhh!
[2014/05/01 15:13] Whirly Fizzle: Okay, probably no issue then
[2014/05/01 15:13] Jenna Felton: could it not be used to establish the group chat connection to all group members? because i often get a first group chat message that seems to continue the group chat and that after minutes of not having the group session
[2014/05/01 15:13] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but.. still it would be nice if the viewer didn't send meaningless messages
[2014/05/01 15:15] Jenna Felton: so i assume the first messages were dropped somewhere although i was online
[2014/05/01 15:16] Simon Linden: aside from the back-end load, group chat has the most trouble when you've moved from one region to another. It basically has to go figure out where you are
[2014/05/01 15:16] Jenna Felton: ah, ok, than i must watch more close it that hapened after teleport
[2014/05/01 15:16] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I suppose logging in would have the same difficulty, since you're establishing presence in the login region in that case too?
[2014/05/01 15:17] Fenix Eldritch: Current location of the agent isn't something stored with ot?
[2014/05/01 15:17] Simon Linden: it is, Fenix, but it's a matter of where it's stored
[2014/05/01 15:18] Fenix Eldritch: Ah, so it's not a readily accessible property of the agent itself then?
[2014/05/01 15:19] Simon Linden: well, the region you are on, your viewer and the back-end database all know where you are, and keep updated very fast
[2014/05/01 15:19] Jenna Felton: could that be possible to enforce the viewer to request missing messages from the group chat servers, in case i am interested in them?
[2014/05/01 15:19] Simon Linden: The chat servers, however, aren't kept in perfect sync because that would be very hard to do with 50000+ people moving around
[2014/05/01 15:19] Simon Linden: ... who are all in 42 groups
[2014/05/01 15:19] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): How would it know which messages are missing?
[2014/05/01 15:20] Fenix Eldritch: ah
[2014/05/01 15:20] Simon Linden: it doesn't track missing messages ... but if it can't send one to your agent, it then has to ask where you really are and then it sends there
[2014/05/01 15:20] Jenna Felton: when the viewer stored the timestamp of the first arrived message and the server stored the timestamp of the first message sent to the group in this session
[2014/05/01 15:20] Rex Cronon: it very unlikely that u can have 42 group chat windows opened at same time:)
[2014/05/01 15:21] Jenna Felton: ok, that is the work-around for that :)
[2014/05/01 15:21] Simon Linden: being open doesn't mean you are totally out of the chat group Rex ... you get messages and they open up when the first one comes in
[2014/05/01 15:21] Jenna Felton: (asking for the messages)
[2014/05/01 15:21] Whirly Fizzle: Group doesn't open for you if an avi you muted initiates the group chat session though
[2014/05/01 15:23] Simon Linden: right .. but in the end, there are lots of groups and lots of people in them all. Some have hundreds of people in them, and will suddenly get a burst of traffic when someone starts talking
[2014/05/01 15:24] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and a lot of that traffic is from people closing the group chat window to leave the session, because the topic isn't interesting to them :)
[2014/05/01 15:24] Simon Linden: The new code we have out now is a bit more efficient, but more importantly it has more metrics and it showed me that the performance problems are in a few other areas
[2014/05/01 15:25] Simon Linden: yes ... it turns out the the updates to keep the list of people in the group chat updated are really significant
[2014/05/01 15:26] Simon Linden: it gets worse, of course, in large groups - more people coming and going, and more people that need the updates
[2014/05/01 15:27] Simon Linden: On a totally different topic ... if you need your main grid inventory updated here, send me an IM and I'll flag your account for a copy
[2014/05/01 15:30] Rex Cronon: would it help if the group chat server(s) didn't have look through the list of group chat members that are logged in but haven't connected each time a new user types something?
[2014/05/01 15:30] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Simon.
[2014/05/01 15:31] Jenna Felton: Thank you Simon, later i may do it (needs some cleaning up first) or the script will work then again :)
[2014/05/01 15:32] Lucia Nightfire: !env
[2014/05/01 15:32] Simon Linden: I'm happy to help with the copying on a small scale, so please don't post my offer on a blog or anything :)
[2014/05/01 15:32] Jenna Felton: /me gigles
[2014/05/01 15:32] Nal (nalates.urriah): :)
[2014/05/01 15:32] Lucia Nightfire: was there soemthing done recently for calling card organizing when logging on?
[2014/05/01 15:33] Rex Cronon: somebody already posted it to the merchant group chat;)
[2014/05/01 15:33] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Rex, I suppose that would reduce the traffic, but you also wouldn't see any group chat unless you had the chat windows open, with that design?
[2014/05/01 15:33] Whirly Fizzle: Awww we can't have that as FS motto of the day then? :P
[2014/05/01 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: I logged on here and I got what appears to be two new calling card folders
[2014/05/01 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: a Friends and an All fodler
[2014/05/01 15:33] Lucia Nightfire: *folder
[2014/05/01 15:34] Simon Linden: Hmm, that's odd, Lucia
[2014/05/01 15:34] Lucia Nightfire: don't recall seeing those before
[2014/05/01 15:34] Lucia Nightfire: wonder if its a V3 thing, FS or server
[2014/05/01 15:35] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me has "My inventory/Friends", "My inventory/Friends/Friends", and "My inventory/Friends/Friends/All"
[2014/05/01 15:35] Simon Linden: we've seen some odd things recently with calling cards ... not many, but there was one account that somehow had a ton of calling cards. I suspect they wrote their own viewer bug somehow that went crazy adding them
[2014/05/01 15:35] Whirly Fizzle: Friends?
[2014/05/01 15:35] Lucia Nightfire: that person has a few enemies, Simon, lol
[2014/05/01 15:36] Rex Cronon: the users would be asked if they want to join the chat on login if one of their groups is active in the last 5 minutes or so. otherwise user would have to manually connect to group chat
[2014/05/01 15:36] Lucia Nightfire: there are illegal tpvs that calling card spam people too
[2014/05/01 15:36] Jenna Felton: this happens when you test the TPV with same account :)
[2014/05/01 15:36] Whirly Fizzle: It should be Calliing card folder within My Inventory, friends & all are subfolders of CC
[2014/05/01 15:36] Simon Linden: Rex ... I'm definitely not trying to re-design group chat, just to get the current stuff working better
[2014/05/01 15:36] Rex Cronon: ok
[2014/05/01 15:37] Lucia Nightfire: questiobn
[2014/05/01 15:37] Lucia Nightfire: -b
[2014/05/01 15:38] Lucia Nightfire: is there a way we can somehow have the scripted tp threshold reduced from 2.0 sec to 0.5 sec esp since perms granting is explicit
[2014/05/01 15:39] Simon Linden: what do you mean by "threshold" there?
[2014/05/01 15:39] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia, are you TPing between regions or within the same region?
[2014/05/01 15:39] Jenna Felton: Lucia means trottle i think
[2014/05/01 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: it was added much later after the tp loophole exploit back in May 2011
[2014/05/01 15:39] Lucia Nightfire: along with the system/toast tp message
[2014/05/01 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: currently if you try to do more than one scripted tp w/i 2sec you get a script error
[2014/05/01 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: with a related threshodl error
[2014/05/01 15:40] Lucia Nightfire: *threshold
[2014/05/01 15:40] Simon Linden: trying to tp fast is really asking for trouble ... so many things can go wrong
[2014/05/01 15:41] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, it makes a difference whether you're going between different sims or within the same sim
[2014/05/01 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: I can understand sim2sim tping having it
[2014/05/01 15:41] Lucia Nightfire: but intra sim theres a few apps I'm making that really need the threshodl down
[2014/05/01 15:41] Simon Linden: right, that makes more sense
[2014/05/01 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: one is a tp backed movelock and the other is a visual warp effect thing
[2014/05/01 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: not warp, but movement
[2014/05/01 15:42] Lucia Nightfire: hrad to explain without ruining it, heh
[2014/05/01 15:44] Simon Linden: I'd have to dig deeper and look at the code but I don't see why it needs to be like than within the same region
[2014/05/01 15:45] Lucia Nightfire: I will kiss you if you can allow 4 tp's per sec, lol
[2014/05/01 15:45] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, teleporting within the region shouldn't be any more expensive than sitting on an object that does llSetRegionPos() rapidly within a region
[2014/05/01 15:45] Lucia Nightfire: I think it still can use a threshold though, but some may argue
[2014/05/01 15:45] Rex Cronon: if it happens too fast and goes ftl than your ave might travel in time:)
[2014/05/01 15:45] Lucia Nightfire: definately between regions though
[2014/05/01 15:45] Jenna Felton: llSetPos has delay of 0.2s
[2014/05/01 15:46] Simon Linden: it probably should have at least a small one to keep the interest list and updates from thrashing
[2014/05/01 15:46] Jenna Felton: perhaps this can be used for orientation
[2014/05/01 15:46] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yeah, so the viewer isn't too bogged down for the agent to remove a nasty attachment which is TPing too fast
[2014/05/01 15:47] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ..or TP away from the region if some object in the region is teleporting them rapidly within the region
[2014/05/01 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: at least tp perms are explcitily granted in those cases, heh
[2014/05/01 15:48] Lucia Nightfire: and we still get messages of what tp'd us and if its attached
[2014/05/01 15:49] Jenna Felton: teleporters could be probably listed in the Bump/Pushes/Hits window probably
[2014/05/01 15:50] Jenna Felton: so you know what did it to you
[2014/05/01 15:50] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): In other news, Baker has been fixing group ban bugs. We're hoping to approach the state where the only remaining bugs are in the viewer, so we can prepare for a server RC.
[2014/05/01 15:50] Baker Linden: Yup!
[2014/05/01 15:50] Lucia Nightfire: would be nice if third party animations are too, so people know whose deformers are animating them, lol
[2014/05/01 15:50] Jenna Felton: /me nods to Lucia
[2014/05/01 15:51] Whirly Fizzle: Yay getting closer :D
[2014/05/01 15:51] Caleb Linden: thanks for the jira reports btw
[2014/05/01 15:51] Jenna Felton: Thats good news Maestro and Baker
[2014/05/01 15:51] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Yes, thanks for those Jiras
[2014/05/01 15:52] Whirly Fizzle: Hopefully there won't be any more ;)
[2014/05/01 15:52] Lucia Nightfire: edge cases will always be found
[2014/05/01 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: hopefully those edge cases wont' be showstoppers
[2014/05/01 15:53] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah
[2014/05/01 15:53] Lucia Nightfire: still takes a lot of eyes and ears to get all the kinks worked out sometimes
[2014/05/01 15:55] Simon Linden: SL will be boring if we take all the kinks out
[2014/05/01 15:55] Whirly Fizzle: It would lol
[2014/05/01 15:55] Jenna Felton: thats true :)
[2014/05/01 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: you'll just have to replace the kinks with features, heh
[2014/05/01 15:56] Baker Linden: or "features"
[2014/05/01 15:56] Baker Linden: MWA HA HA HA
[2014/05/01 15:56] Simon Linden: just to be clear and official, that was a joke
[2014/05/01 15:56] Baker Linden: haha yes it was
[2014/05/01 15:56] Whirly Fizzle: Id be bored with no bugs!
[2014/05/01 15:56] Caleb Linden: there was an image something that depicted the Bug car with the license plate "Feature"
[2014/05/01 15:57] Jenna Felton: some bugs are features missing the documentation
[2014/05/01 15:58] Whirly Fizzle: http://i.imgur.com/u4HWv6e.png
[2014/05/01 15:58] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): There you go
[2014/05/01 15:59] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): lol
[2014/05/01 15:59] Caleb Linden: lol
[2014/05/01 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay guys, we're out of time for this week
[2014/05/01 15:59] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): thanks for coming, everybody!
[2014/05/01 16:00] Whirly Fizzle: Ty Lindens
[2014/05/01 16:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/05/01 16:00] Jenna Felton: that was fast meeting
[2014/05/01 16:00] Caleb Linden: thanks
[2014/05/01 16:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Thanks Baker, Maestro and Caleb
[2014/05/01 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): time flies when you're having fun
[2014/05/01 16:00] Fenix Eldritch: Thank you, Lindens
[2014/05/01 16:00] Baker Linden: ty everyone! Have a fantastic weekend
[2014/05/01 16:00] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Simon and Caleb and Baker.
[2014/05/01 16:00] Jenna Felton: thank you Lindens and All, and have a nice weekrest and weekend :)
[2014/05/01 16:00] Rex Cronon: tc maestro
[2014/05/01 16:00] Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you too
[2014/05/01 16:00] Rex Cronon: tc caleb
[2014/05/01 16:00] Rex Cronon: tc baker
[2014/05/01 16:00] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.
[2014/05/01 16:00] Rex Cronon: tc all those leaving