Doc Team/2010-03-03

== Transcript ==
[13:08]	:	hi torley and all :)
[13:08]	:	The new search makes it very difficult to scan for upcoming events. In the past you could look at 200 at a go just by moving a slider
[13:08]	:	Nathan, there've been attempts at "thin" clients but what you suggest might be considerably harder.
[13:08]	:	openGL works hardly, try to keep telling Nyx, Simon, Andrew all the time but they always keep saying it is working fine. not knowing that there is a bug there
[13:08]	:	Came up in a discussion: multiple monitor OpenGL needs manufacturwer-specific driver support. Andthat's rather rare.
[13:08]	:	its kinda a nebulas look to it
[13:08]	:	yes, even with 2.0
[13:08]	:	it might be something again Im gonna have to get used to
[13:09]	:	oh hello jeremy :p sneaked up behind my camera have you :)
[13:09]	 	has pinged you.
[13:09]	:	Wouldn't it be possible to move the non-3D portions of the interface out of the OpenGL part, though?
[13:09]	:	Hello!
[13:09]	:	Especially now with the sidebar.
[13:09]	:	HI HI JEREMY!
[13:09]	 	has pinged you.
[13:09]	:	I don't know how feasible that is, Athanasius, I'd ask a graphics guru.
[13:09]	:	hello Jeremy
[13:09]	 	has pinged you.
[13:09]	:	hi guys
[13:10]	:	hey skills :)
[13:10]	:	no longer ADHD avi skills? ;)
[13:10]	:	Probably a huge rewrite anyway. Should have thought of it before 2.0. :)
[13:10]	:	Torley, could we have documentation on the api/url that search sends to search.secondlife.com? I bet some clever people could improve upon it, write a clever hud, etc.
[13:10]	:	Athanasius, we did. I know documents going back to 2004. Maybe some even before my time.
[13:11]	:	Ah, right.
[13:11]	:	There are a lot of "OMG THAT SOUNDS SO OBVIOUS" but are *non-trivially* hard to do. Another one is a "soft" logout that'd allow you to change accounts without quitting the Viewer. Ask James or Mark Linden for why that's not easy.
[13:11]	:	think it may be good to do new video tutorials about the new 2.0 viewer torley, explaining everything
[13:11]	:	It's cost against number of custoimers affected.
[13:11]	:	He has, Youri
[13:11]	:	perhaps it makes me love the viewer more as well
[13:11]	:	Youri, a new Beginner's series IS coming when Viewer 2 exits beta.
[13:11]	:	havnt checked youtube so far :)
[13:11]	:	soft logons would be great, or one viewer with capibilities fo controling more than one avi at a time
[13:11]	:	Further tutorials will be prioritized on their broad usefulness.
[13:12]	:	http://youtube.com/secondlife <- subscribe!
[13:12]	:	allready have ;)
[13:12]	:	/me smiles.
[13:12]	:	Torley, I'm one of those people who doesn't learn well from video, especially at YouTube resolution.
[13:12]	:	my pc was a huge mess past week, thanks to a faulty ATI driver. AMD also said that the driver was not working propperly. so... yeah, had no opertunity so far
[13:12]	:	/me kicks his shoes off
[13:13]	:	What's "YouTube resolution"?
[13:13]	:	hey kate
[13:13]	:	Hey Kate
[13:13]	:	Hi :)
[13:13]	:	You DO know you can view some youtube videos at higher res, right?
[13:13]	:	hey kate! missed you!
[13:13]	:	Plus full screen mode
[13:13]	:	KAAAAAATE.
[13:13]	:	aww thanks Youri
[13:13]	:	hiya ツ
[13:13]	:	Hey Torley!
[13:13]	:	lol that avatar rocks torley
[13:13]	:	From here, what has a video taking twice as long to load as it does to play.
[13:13]	:	how are you sweet kate?
[13:13]	:	someone should script the keyboard
[13:14]	:	By the way if any of you are using Viewer 2, be sure to click the "?" buttons in almost every window.
[13:14]	:	That's the glorious new context help we're still working on... :D
[13:14]	:	i never keep help buttons
[13:14]	:	click
[13:14]	:	Any and all key things about Viewer 2 Help will be listed on https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewer_2_Help so if you're fed up of bookmarking various things, it's compiled there.
[13:14]	:	dont know why i said keep
[13:15]	:	noticed that torley, just a mess to find out everything. like starting completely all over again
[13:15]	:	because you secretlly stole buttons as a kid, and now have a trauma about it?
[13:15]	:	heh
[13:15]	:	I found it hard at first to teleport someone to me in the begining using the beta
[13:16]	:	still no Jon btw?
[13:16]	:	It's important to distinguish: some stuff was poorly implemented before and now, learning (or relearning) can take time. That's different from the things that still need design work, tho.
[13:16]	:	just takes a bit of getting used to
[13:16]	:	pardon a real newbie question, but has Viewer 2.0 any improvements in terms of rendering, such as graphics and fps? I realise I should heck that wiki before asking but still..
[13:16]	:	he still to busy?
[13:16]	:	Jon and all of us Doc'ers really have been supah buzay with Viewer 2 and other exciting projects!
[13:16]	:	are your videos the only place to see tricks like window opacity in 2.0 Torley? or is there als an online help site? (dose the wiki include these things?)
[13:16]	:	it takes more than a little getting used to.. takes a bit more time too lol
[13:16]	:	is that why you guys are hard to get a hold of? :)
[13:17]	:	Nitz, there are some freezing bugs fixed in the rendering pipeline
[13:17]	:	Nitz, not really. The Snowglobe build based on 2.0 does have some, tho.
[13:17]	:	nitz, its pretty much same renderer, just more bugs in v2 ;)
[13:17]	:	once you get used to v2 you wills till be slower doing things than in v1.. v1 is just easier
[13:17]	:	lol, prod him for us, we love to see him again. besides, i think we all agree on giving him a little break?
[13:17]	:	Derek, we'll be updating http://secondlife.com/kb articles for Viewer 2 help. My videos will be included as appropriate.
[13:17]	:	Derek, also see the Viewer 2 Help link I pasted above. =)
[13:17]	:	Adamburp, hehe we're reliably here almost every week!
[13:18]	:	ok ty, just wondering
[13:18]	:	k, thanks for the answers I need to read up a little in that wiki
[13:18]	:	We have one of the most long-running and popular office hours at Linden Lab! https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours
[13:18]	:	i meant in general torley, but mroe of a rhetorical joke, i know how hard workign you guys are
[13:18]	:	Nitz, I do get better frame rate. A big chunk of that seems to be the opaqu pop-up and sidebar, reducing the screen area which needs to be rendered for a frame.
[13:18]	:	;)
[13:18]	:	Adam we are here almost every week.
[13:18]	:	do you keep all your vidoeos in the sam place Torley so they can put a link to them in the top menu :-)
[13:19]	:	Paul54, we'll be promoting the YouTube channel more and I can put the videos in multiple places as-needed... they're also at http://secondlife.com/my -- as for more in-Viewer placement, we shall... see, ha ha ha.
[13:19]	:	:)
[13:19]	:	i wish there was some more education about the viewers people should NOT use
[13:20]	:	Damn, I should have checked. The various official wiki pages on Age and Account verification seemed to contradict each other, but I don't know if it was fixed.
[13:20]	:	according to the third party policy etc
[13:20]	:	Skills, explain more about that?
[13:20]	:	feel free to have me add some on my blog torley, could be usefull
[13:20]	:	well, as long as they pick one from the 3rd party client registry, they should be fine, right?
[13:20]	:	i mean the TPV clearly states people can get banned for using viewers that bypass the permission system etc
[13:21]	:	still alot of people use software like that and they don't know about the problems
[13:21]	:	well, the ppl "testing" neillife etc are up to no good to begin with, and they know it
[13:21]	:	yes
[13:21]	:	i mean the software is against TOS and violates many license agreements etc
[13:21]	:	i got crashed last night ith that one
[13:21]	:	Ah yes. I made an internal suggestion earlier to the folks working on the Viewer Registry and stuff. I don't know where all that's at, at the moment.
[13:21]	:	often those viewers send out your password to the makers and contain rootkits and viruses
[13:22]	:	Even the tpv voliates some licienes.
[13:22]	:	of course its against ToS skills, its still stealing when you copybot
[13:22]	:	Skills, there has been some concern about media on a prim and exploits coming in via javascript or flash
[13:22]	:	Could someone explain the abbreviation TPV?
[13:22]	:	third party viewer
[13:22]	:	its worce, when they steal your identity and credit card detqails, thourgh the rootkit that was imbeddded in the client they downlaoded
[13:22]	:	facepalms
[13:22]	:	worse
[13:22]	:	Skills, if you have proof of that, it's a criminal offence and should be reported to, the FBI, or whoever enforces those laws.
[13:22]	:	/me Facepaws
[13:22]	:	don;t you scan your dpownloads first?
[13:23]	:	Re: Shared Media concerns, our legal dept. is aware. Some concerns existed prior to this, but Shared Media is more mobile.
[13:23]	:	http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php
[13:23]	:	downloads*
[13:23]	:	adam, a recent study showed about 40% detection rate using top 15 major anti virus on 0 day exploits
[13:23]	:	i found about thee different senconlife version keys in my Registy once i deleted them and downloaded sl again everything worked perectly
[13:24]	:	how often do you update? mine is set fr every hour to check
[13:24]	:	anti virus is really starting to get ineffective these days
[13:24]	:	Link, lonetorus? Did they include Kaspersky?
[13:24]	:	i use avast
[13:24]	:	i dont bother with antivirus
[13:24]	:	windows in general needs better registry management lol
[13:24]	:	avast here too
[13:24]	:	dont have any protection what so ever atm
[13:24]	:	CPU, are you on a Mac? Hehe.
[13:24]	:	Section 1h states that if the viewer adds or remove featrues, it forbideen.
[13:24]	:	torley, can i mention a product in here?
[13:24]	:	no im on a PC
[13:24]	:	never get viruses
[13:25]	:	im using norton avast and avg on 3 diff comps (not al on them all)
[13:25]	:	Depends what it is but I won't know until you do, Adamburp!
[13:25]	:	theres no protection against software that sends your password out to other people inworld
[13:25]	:	for rootkits, get teh free sophos tool
[13:25]	:	it;s amazing
[13:25]	:	Some stuff there is no technical "cure" for, so one must be savvy about which websites you visit.
[13:25]	:	some viewers sends encrypted data via inworld IM to various accounts immediately after login,
 though we are not aware of what data is contained due to the encryption, the size of the dataset suggests no more than a few lines of text, all evidence suggests the viewer is IMing your username/PW combination to the creator. We believe use of this viewer is an extreme risk to your computer and privacy.
[13:25]	:	besides, if its targeted at you, you cant protect yourself
[13:25]	:	how could a shared mediid web page exploit your computer?
[13:26]	:	Windows Essentials is good at catching most spyware and viruses and its free
[13:26]	:	Guys, as far as computer virues and roiotkits go, I have no particular reason to trust amy claimn that you make. Not any of you, even Torley. Except for a general agreement that folks should be careful.
[13:26]	:	we are going to release a list of malicious viewers soon, but would be great to have something official from the Lab too
[13:26]	:	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_software #Effectiveness
[13:26]	:	Derek, the media plays a flash and some exploit is used against your computer
[13:26]	:	Shared media just need to trick the client into opeing up IE was a url to a malware/spam/trogin site.
[13:26]	:	even fron within the sl viewer?
[13:26]	:	* is taking deep breaths *
[13:27]	:	Derek, yes, that is an issues with the new shared media
[13:27]	:	/me hasnt experemented or looked at shared madia yet
[13:27]	:	shared media is as "dangerous" as any normal website you visit
[13:27]	:	lol
[13:27]	:	if ever i did get a virus or serious problems then i would reformat.. not had to though
[13:27]	:	ok, just wondering
[13:27]	:	i wouldnt trust it myself
[13:27]	:	Confirmed, serious exploits should be reported to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Security_issues ASAP. If you know what you're talking about and it's not just a misunderstanding or scare, our guys will get on it fast. We need to squash myths and paranoia while improving understanding of real things to remember.
[13:27]	:	think the sl wiki needs such info as well, and updated with time.
[13:27]	:	or any program that shares my folders
[13:27]	:	skills, except its webkit, less likely exploit authors will be targeting webkit
[13:27]	:	Skills, true. But one visite the site, here on SL, the cleint visites the site jsut by walking past a prim.
[13:27]	:	I think it is more dangerous, as you do not chose to visit those sites (by default autoplay is on)
[13:28]	:	but yeah, autoplai is a problem
[13:28]	:	another bad one it UPnP
[13:28]	:	i want to be asked every time if i want a specific media source to executre
[13:28]	:	since SL is a community and LL wants to keep people in as much as possible, but do want people to be save. so why not offer just that little bit extra to the residents?
[13:28]	:	Autoplay is, in some ways, like allowing pop-up windows or even pages to refresh/redirect automatically.
[13:28]	:	Is there documentation available on exactly what's supported by the HTML on a prim in terms of non-HTML stuff? Flash, etc.?
[13:28]	:	yeah you need to stop people being paranoid.
[13:28]	:	can a viewer under 2 display a surface with shared media? (im guessing no because it cant display flash, am i rihgt?)
[13:28]	:	Haven't found it yet, but I may just have missed it.
[13:28]	:	athana, look up feature list of webkit
[13:29]	:	people think if others see thier ip they will get hacked
[13:29]	:	Parinoia is just being self aware lol.
[13:29]	:	Right Derek, Shared Media requires Viewer 2.
[13:29]	:	what?!?!?!?!?! people can see me through my LCD monitor?!?!?!?!?!
[13:29]	:	So, everything webkit has and nothing i doesn't, yeah?
[13:29]	:	Shared Media *can* display flash, in fact.
[13:29]	:	Shared Media needs to be opt-IN, not opt-OUT as it is now.
[13:29]	:	no bron
[13:29]	:	/me LOLs at Bronson
[13:29]	:	ooohhh Bronson, put some cloths on!
[13:29]	:	its a 1 way street basically, impossible
[13:29]	:	lmao
[13:29]	:	damnit all
[13:29]	:	but Jobs says flash is ebil!!!111
[13:29]	:	currently the worst thing you can do is crash the viewer with bad javascript
[13:29]	:	but it's still beta so that will be fixed soon i'm sure
[13:29]	:	The HTML5 storm is brewing. Har har.
[13:30]	:	only idiots think they can change something like that into a camera
[13:30]	:	lol i can do html lol, dont know if i could crash even a cell phone
[13:30]	:	youri have you found my tinfoil hat yet?
[13:30]	:	Did you all see the video of the avatar walking along NYC using google maps street view?
[13:30]	:	/me waves
[13:31]	:	your IP was never save, it's the internet :)
[13:31]	:	]So what is there with in-world web content that we can't do better wiuth our usual browsers. And maybe with more confidence of our security?
[13:31]	:	if you have a webcam however, well yes. then people can install a file on your pc so they can use that. so best to let it show a wall for example
[13:31]	:	I saw that via Esbee, Jonathan. :)
[13:31]	:	Early on Aimee put one of my panoramas on a curved prim, that was pretty cool, too.
[13:31]	:	has the ability to click drag and rearange viewer 2 buttons and elemants been considered?
[13:31]	:	Carol, some of the interaction is neat. Using a webpage as an enhanced control panel to change the color of a couch is a real example that's been passed around.
[13:31]	:	it's not sensitive at all
[13:32]	:	skills, or use a vpn redirect service, lots of them these days, and cheap too
[13:32]	:	Heres how an expert gets a persons IP LP >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM
[13:32]	:	Working on info-displays collaboratively is another big one that comes up in a lot of context: when you want both 3D space and existing web services.
[13:32]	:	will the couch so changed change color for a 1.x viwer, too?
[13:32]	:	/me laughs. "That's like buying a Microsoft compiler to put "Hello World" on your screen.
[13:32]	:	Someone who's extremely concerned about their privacy shouldn't be on the Internet at all.
[13:32]	:	true torley
[13:33]	:	embrace the risk lol
[13:33]	:	It's controversial but true, because the way societies are working. It's like, 300 years ago if someone told you what a "factory" was gonna be like, you'd kick their ass for being so freakin' crazy. Now, it's the norm.
[13:33]	:	i have been on the internet since AOL started and i havent been hacked once
[13:33]	:	wel if ppl would just stop telling ppl about their private life on facebook etc, the problem would be much smaller for those ppl
[13:33]	:	XD
[13:33]	:	Getting an IP isn't a big deal but for two things. One is can find alts with it, two is location, while not the city, but at least the country and each country has differetn laws.
[13:33]	:	oh oh who just stole my TV
[13:33]	:	well it needs some educating maybe
[13:34]	:	either get a few lessons on what is possible and what not, how to use the internet propperly, can solve a lot of problems. else dont touch the internet
[13:34]	:	tech, often city too
[13:34]	:	well folks i;'ll bid you all "adieu", my bedtime, 0500 start for me tomorrow
[13:34]	:	geo ip databases are pretty accurate these days
[13:34]	:	Techwolf: you have a program in-world that lets you detect IP addies?
[13:34]	:	only getting yourself hurt in a way if you dont know what your doing, no wonder you getting paranoid over nothing...
[13:35]	:	natahn, it would be against TOS, so obviously not ;)
[13:35]	:	It's important to be well-informed of possible consequences to choices you make -- that's one thing we're repeatedly emphasizing in providing better documentation.
[13:35]	:	same with those chainletter things, all sad stories but everyone with commen sense knows they are FAKE, DO NOT TOUCH OR SEND. LOL
[13:35]	:	"I don't know" is different from "It can't happen".
[13:35]	:	Nathan, only works for viewer 2.0. and I havn'g made it yet. But others i'me sure are.
[13:35]	:	ah
[13:36]	:	i just want to slap people who respond to chain mails
[13:36]	:	Well, I only have one alt... and only log on under it breifly maybe once every week or every other week
[13:36]	:	i usually report such idiots
[13:36]	:	Youri, I hear some pretty wild claims about a lot of things. Where I have the knowledge, they're usually ludicrous, but somebody believed it and passed it on.
[13:36]	:	giving MY email address for something like that!
[13:36]	:	Hot off the blog: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2010/03/03/customize-your-linden-home-with-our-new-control-panel
[13:36]	:	CPU, it's unfortunate there's a lot of gullability out there. Even with Snopes, a lot of people don't bother to check that.
[13:36]	:	w00t Kate had a direct role in helping Linden Homes to launch!
[13:36]	:	Oh yes, those silly urba-myth things like "Rez this prim and it'll steal all your lindens!!!!!"
[13:36]	:	wow that's cool
[13:37]	:	your average dictionary typically lacks a definition for "gullible." look it up if you don't believe me. :-D
[13:37]	:	*urban
[13:37]	:	great idea whoever did that
[13:37]	:	I created a wildcard e-mail address and use disposiable e-mail for every web site that requres registeration just to READ an articial.
[13:37]	:	If there ends up being any policy against capturing IPs, can we make sure it doesn't impact legitimate uses? Like, say, "Download this piece of SL-related software from this prim?"
[13:37]	:	I heard there is a new schemr to invite a Linden home for tea as they dont get paid very6 much
[13:37]	:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Linden_Home_Help_Guide
[13:38]	:	I mean, sure, my FTP server gets your IP that way, but the usage seems reasonable, right? I may be off the mainstream on that, though.
[13:38]	:	/me just chcked her linden balance @ Nathan ;)
[13:38]	:	torley, and snopes has been questioned too, iirc
[13:38]	:	Nathan, a script in a prim can do all sorts of stuff when you rez it.
[13:38]	:	Paul54: You can invite a Linden home over for tea? :D :D D:
[13:38]	:	Athansius, that's really too speculative and impractical to answer.
[13:38]	:	Remember that you could still get IPs through parcel media (as an example) for years.
[13:38]	:	i dont think they can make a policy on capturing IPs
[13:38]	:	Well, just throught I'd bring the legitimate uses up, seeing as it's quite the tempest at the moment.
[13:38]	:	*thought
[13:38]	:	But if it can steal your Lindens, anything can.
[13:38]	:	there are several ways to acquire IPs but IPs are not the problem
[13:39]	:	Some issues don't fundamentally change, it's just perception.
[13:39]	:	Yah, but it a prim wants to take lindens from you, you usually get a big, yellow dialog box asking if you want to allow it...
[13:39]	:	if your looking at other peoples websites then they get your ips thats just the way it is
[13:39]	:	that was a theoretical quicktime exploit and has been fixed carol
[13:39]	:	always will be
[13:39]	:	Mm, that, too.
[13:39]	:	Mac numbers are handy for tracing people
[13:40]	:	you know the equipment is the hardware they are using
[13:40]	:	Hard to get off of the same segment, though.
[13:40]	:	anyway whats the topic here i forgot?
[13:40]	:	and they dont vhange so quickly
[13:40]	:	We tend to travel through topics!
[13:40]	:	hi
[13:40]	:	MAC number only go to the next router. Its a hardware level address so hardware have a way to talking to each other locally.
[13:40]	:	i think registering IP's is rather usefull and needed, it's perhaps not nice to those that dont do anything bad, but griefers think twice before trying anything. calling their provider to completely close the path to SL is rather better as well
[13:40]	:	the topic today is.... topic drift! :D
[13:41]	:	my pc mac has never changed
[13:41]	:	only way to get back on is by changing providers then
[13:41]	:	most IPs are behind a home router, with 192.168.x.y address scheme... that means nothing... and the public IP is the ISP.... so, no big issue....
[13:41]	:	I drink to forget topics.
[13:41]	:	and i bet my isp has a record of it
[13:41]	:	and usually, ISPs give dynamic IPs...
[13:41]	:	i have a question about support on multi screen, can we in the futur release invled an expanded viewer for panoramic view ?
[13:41]	:	/me LOLs ar Aargle
[13:41]	:	tells enough niky
[13:41]	:	*at
[13:41]	:	What we know best is Second Life help resources. How to actually use the controls for Second Life, and how to perform normal tasks in the Second Life world. We might happen to know some stuff outside that area, but it's hit-or-miss.
[13:41]	:	yeah lets implement ACTA and 3 strikes, so we can start taking those griffers offline !!!111
[13:42]	:	Torley, could we have documentation on the url that search sends to search.secondlife.com? (try #2 at getting through the chat flying by)
[13:42]	:	Also, there continues to be a knowledge divide... Richard Feynmann said this so well in a TV interview, that for someone to really understand something deeply, they need to get a LOT more technically involved with the subject matter. Lots don't have the time/curiosity, so even if a simple answer is given, they don't really know.
[13:42]	:	feynmann is my personal hero
[13:42]	:	aaaaaawww http://www .... ㋡
[13:42]	:	Jonathan, explain more?
[13:42]	:	I highly recommend http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM (the Feynmann video I was talking about)
[13:43]	:	thank you i will check it out
[13:43]	:	With i tbeing so hard to search on events, I could see people wantiing to connect using their own program to the LL search engine, so a better display could be presented to the user
[13:43]	:	In my exoerience, even after bnearly thirty years of computer eductions in British schools, most npeople don't have out level of knowledge. They don't "feel" the problem.
[13:43]	:	Jonathan, ah! http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Search_API
[13:44]	:	ah! You beat me to it I suspect
[13:44]	:	I don't know how that's changing in 2.0... that might be a good one for Liana and her team.
[13:44]	:	feynmann was a trickster too, esp with opening safes ;) so not always a in depth knowledge needed
[13:44]	:	Yes, Feynmann was a lot of fun on the bongos. Very multidimensional genius, a true eccentric in the best sense of the word.
[13:44]	:	Torley, I am keeping score, that is 2 for you and 0 for me so far. :)
[13:44]	:	Happy to help. ^_^
[13:44]	:	yes this is my first still a bit new to sl but really would like to get more involved
[13:45]	:	Oh, very cool Sabrine, I encourage you to pursue what you're interested in. :D
[13:45]	:	thank you i will
[13:45]	:	everything can be cheated, everything can be tricked, everything can be broken. It's no art, the art is fixing the problem, reparing things and creating things!
[13:45]	:	torley, he is i suppose to some degree responsible for me being in sl still, in regards to "the pleasure of fiding things out" lot sof things to find out about on the sl platform
[13:45]	:	i heard the linden is overtaking the British Pound lol.
[13:46]	:	lol
[13:46]	:	hellits so far on par withe the peso
[13:46]	:	lonetorus, that's a great story. Part of why I'm here was because I did single-player virtual worlds on my old Amiga and it was kind of lonely, so years later... lots of cyberpunk spirit here.
[13:46]	:	hahahahha
[13:46]	:	I love origin stories, how things come to be, WHY someone takes action. WHY they care so much?
[13:46]	:	Now people are saying that the internet is an expression of a new mode ofn human thought, much as mass literacy was. But that new internet man is giving us Facebook, and that scares me.
[13:46]	:	trying to cheat, break or trick something is only showing that the person does not have the knowlage and capabilities to actually do something else
[13:46]	:	i think it's getting more and more interesting :D
[13:46]	:	and who knew you could get so involved with o-rings ;)
[13:47]	:	The world has an abundance of great ideas but a shortage of acting on those -- and tools like SL help realize those ideas much quicker, and as tech increases, at a lower barrier.
[13:47]	:	Torley: do yuo mean origin stories of technolofies, or origin stories of... say.... fictional characters?
[13:47]	:	i do beleive in open source it allow so much evolution
[13:47]	:	Carol, and Chatroulette! :O
[13:47]	:	Nathan, both. I'm enjoying Caprica right now, the actress who plays Zoe should come inworld.
[13:47]	:	torley, same goes for sl OH's residents usually have a lot more ideas than sl devs can implement ....ever
[13:47]	:	so much talent out there
[13:48]	:	Oh, Caprica is a great show...
[13:48]	:	Alessandra Torresani fan here. My alt even has one of her quotes in-profile.
[13:48]	:	Well, my persona on SL has a kind of a complicated origin story. heh.
[13:48]	:	In some ways, the internet is a lot like the discussion in the bar at a British SF convention. A real one, not those Star Trek things.
[13:48]	:	Yup, lonetorus. So I like when a newcomer learns about what's already been done and why it may not have been doable, and teams up with someone more experienced.
[13:48]	:	Yeah, that most recent ep of Caprica was good. Kinda SL-ish, too.
[13:49]	:	I wouldn't have stayed past my first few days were it not for way wiser Resis.
[13:49]	:	Oh cool Nathan, I like avatar roleplaying and characterization... I come from text MUDs too...
[13:49]	:	Tapestries?
[13:49]	:	Mine came from a series of BBS round-robin stories.
[13:49]	:	im cureious torley, did you start sl before you beagn working for linden labs?
[13:49]	:	@ Torley can I pls quote you on the following. Was gonna IM you but it looks complicated.. " The world has an abundance of great ideas but a shortage of acting on those -- and tools like SL help realize those ideas much quicker, and as tech increases, at a lower barrier."
[13:49]	:	(BBS = Bulletin Board Systems.... 80s tech)
[13:50]	:	Derek, I did. Several months, then I had a crazy dream I should send my "resume" in.
[13:50]	:	anything said in oåpen chat is fair to quite, i would think
[13:50]	:	Sure Logos, glad you like it. I stand on the shoulders of giants who've said the same thing (likely better!) before.
[13:51]	:	Many men have great ideas. Great men know which ones should be acted on.
[13:51]	:	Have you got a Derek Linden torley
[13:51]	:	lonetorus, yeah, unless it's out of context. ;)
[13:51]	:	I like to check anyway @ lonetorus :)
[13:52]	:	Not yet.
[13:52]	:	lol paul
[13:52]	:	dont ruin if for me if i want a job lol
[13:52]	:	what this space
[13:52]	:	yes of course, never hurts to ping the source
[13:52]	:	My personah came from a sci-fi character I invented 20 years go as a sort of bit-part character who wound up growing in importance... heh...
[13:52]	:	Thinking of inworld immersion... anyone tested any 3D glass with SL? Did it work?
[13:52]	:	Nathan, and now you can bring more of that to life and have others experience your story too?
[13:53]	:	I know there's at least one viwer that uses 3D glasses, yeah
[13:53]	:	Niky, I've heard of a few experiments with the Nvidia-compatible ones. I haven't tried it yet tho.
[13:53]	:	I tried a 3D heads-up goggle set with SL once. It wasn't so good at 640x480 :-/
[13:53]	:	i would love a device that lets me "enter" sl, like a virtual reality game dose
[13:53]	:	Torley: More or less, yeah. It's been fun.
[13:53]	:	I love immersion like mad.
[13:53]	:	I would LOVE to be doing SL in full 3D
[13:53]	:	oh lord
[13:53]	:	Ha, well Aargle, someday a day like that will come and we'll say "Remember when we had these flat 2D monitors?"
[13:53]	:	yeah, wearable headsets, tend to get really expensive if you want better than VGA resolution
[13:54]	:	Cracks me up already how bulky CRTs are.
[13:54]	:	Did you guys see a vdeo called "‘Second Life’ controlled w/ brain-computer interface"?
[13:54]	:	the sidebar wouldnt be great when your using 3D glasses
[13:54]	:	Problem is, not all objkect in world are fully 3D. Many plants, for instance, are just an image of the plant placed onto some flat planes.
[13:54]	:	I guess the 3D improved lots, or? Have been seeing 3D goggles out there quite frequently from Nvidia
[13:54]	:	Logos, yes! I've seen that, and the HandsFree3D (done by Merov Linden).
[13:54]	:	i still haven't tried this 3D viewer
[13:54]	:	old video, but yeah, seen it
[13:54]	:	would be interesting to see with newer graphics
[13:55]	:	Having a headset makes me think of... POWER GLOVE NES STYLE!
[13:55]	:	was before he became a linden so far i understood
[13:55]	:	Some of this tech they make for serious military usages but to get funding they sell versions to the consumer market.
[13:55]	:	Any of you guys ever watch the rather unusual sci-fi show they had int he mid 90s, "VR 5"?
[13:55]	:	lawnmower man like setup for sl....
[13:55]	:	The 3D viewer I saw does colour anaglyphs or shutter spectacles if you can afford them. ,
[13:55]	:	I saw a bit of that, Nathan. Other stuff in that vein I love... would be Strange Days, Wild Palms...
[13:56]	:	Was that in america they showed that
[13:56]	:	I loved VR 5
[13:56]	:	military is serious?!? i always thought of it as a joke and waste of resources ;)
[13:56]	:	I can flash back to 1993 and hear the pounding Psykosonik riffs! When that wave of VR was such a buzzy trend.
[13:56]	:	yeah, pity it never got the followup seson or movie it deserved. They ended it with a cliffhanger
[13:57]	:	Have to go gigi kiddnapped me lol.
[13:57]	:	when i saw avarar i thought "i wish that could be done with sl".
[13:57]	:	I hate when they do that do an awesome show. Sliders was another show that had lots of potential but went downhill...
[13:57]	:	They WERE working on a TV movie, but the plug got pulled... oO
[13:57]	:	I've got a genuine 3D film camera. quite old, though. does square 35mm images
[13:57]	:	film or still image?
[13:57]	:	Might be silly, but I like a lot the Doctor Who show... :)
[13:58]	:	same here. my skybox home is a TARDIS interior.
[13:58]	:	Niky, Sea Linden does too, a lot.
[13:58]	:	still image, lone
[13:58]	:	The Doctor Who theme is genius.
[13:58]	:	Still image can be pretty easy with film. Dual viewer for transparencies and a splitter attachment on the lens.
[13:58]	:	Yes... :) Made a ringtone of it... lol
[13:58]	:	㋡
[13:58]	:	I wish I had a TARDIS..
[13:58]	:	and I've rendered some video in full 3D before.
[13:58]	:	torley, so is the original HHGTTG radio show theme
[13:58]	:	lots of good stuff has come out of bbc radiophonic workshop
[13:59]	:	http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/3517718845/ ;)
[13:59]	:	At least three different brands of TARDIS in world to choose from: Hands of Omega, Novatech, Angelsomethingorother.... and..... was it Shoop or Shook or something like tht?
[14:00]	:	time to go for dinner now! bye bye all, thanks for teh OH doc team!
[14:00]	:	I like Bill & Ted too, when I first came inworld one of my first builds was the Circle K.
[14:00]	:	They have a time-traveling phone booth.
 
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