Ageism in Fandom

Ageism in Fandom is a topic of discussion in fandom spaces, in the context of how different age groups interact and are perceived, and how those perceptions affect the treatment of other fans, content creators and characters.
Some object to calling this discussion ageism, preferring that the term be reserved for more real life systemic issues and discrimination, such as in the economy, rather than generally moral disagreements on the internet.
==Discussion==
The topic of ageism in fandom began being widely discussed after a few prominent posts in 2014 and 2015 (see example below). There was a feeling that some younger fans were putting age limits on fandom involvement and may have been involved in a subtle form of gatekeeping
Some felt that the expectations of younger fans were rooted in outdated beliefs
Or a lack of interaction with mature individuals outside a familial or professional setting
Others connected ageism in fandom to broader issues such as misogyny and the desexualization of older women
==You're middle aged and still have a tumblr?==
===2014===
Often referred to as one of the primary examples of ageism on Tumblr, on December 14, 2014, Anonymous asked a Tumblr user: This post generated a great deal of discussion and older fans trying to enlighten others about their fandom history and continued engagement, as of June 2017 it had over 17,000 notes. Some responses:
===2019===
From a fan in 2019: 
==Youth Perspectives==
See: Minors in Fandom
Some younger fans point out that accusing fans of ageism may be a way to cover up bad behavior:
==Youth Liberation==
(To be added) 
==Dislike of Older Fans==
==Dislike of Older Characters in Canon==
Fandom dislike, or disregard, for older characters is often identified as ageism. 
Older female characters tend to be more disliked than male ones. 
One older male character and his relationships that fans have discussed is George Cowley from The Professionals. A fan in 2015 described Cowley's "absurdity, unlikeliness and, on some grounds, wrongness. It's obviously unwise, illicit, unbalanced, a little pathetic even, from a man like Cowley." from Okay, I'm doing this, I have no time, I may have to join in later, but here goes... Cowley/Bodie? (2015) Cowley was described in this same discussion as "sexless," "too dignified," and too old to have any sort of a sex life. 
kane-and-griffin gives examples of ageism within The 100 fandom against the character of Abby Griffin:
Accusations of ageism is also often associated with The Walking Dead fandom's treatment of the character Carol Peletier, forum user Doctor grimes summarizes:
Also, Tumblr user jeleha reminds others that ageist comments not only discredit the character, but can hurt fans who deeply care about Carol:
Author K. Ancrum points out that ageism against male POC characters is also seen within fandoms, using characters played by Samuel L. Jackson as an example:
A Tumblr anon also gives an example of ageism against an older male character, Blackwall, in Dragon Age fandom:
Fandom hatred, and ageist behaviors, towards older characters may occur more frequently in youth oriented fandoms.
==Excluding Older Characters from Fanworks==
Ageism may play a role in the exclusion of older characters from fanworks, kane-and-griffin gives an example within The 100 fandom:
Author K. Ancrum illustrates the point with character of Luke Garroway form Shadowhunters:
==Assuming Older Female Relatives Are More Judgemental, and "Fragile," Than Young Fans==
Often, the default is the assumption that real life older fans and non-fans such as mothers, grandmothers, and aunts will be disapproving of fanworks and fandom. They are also portrayed as unable to recognize or understand sexual or romantic relationships between characters who are the same sex.
"Mothers" in many of the examples below are sometimes shorthand for "older women you know." Fathers, grandfathers, and uncles are rarely mentioned in this way. 
These assumptions also suggest that one's older relatives are fragile and need to be protected. 
In reality, mothers, grandmothers, and other fans may be just as wary of letting their kids (grown and otherwise) know about their fandom interests and creative endeavors. One experiment, substitute "mother" for "one's grown kids" in any of the quotes below. 
===Hiding One's Fanworks===
Examples of fans hiding their fanworks from mothers and other older relatives, due to their own shame and/or due to older peoples' "fragility":
* an artist's description in the mid-1990s of her work, Kirk/Spock illo, In Your Arms: 
* a panel at the 1998 slash convention, Red Rose Convention: 
* a panel at the 2000 Escapade/Escapade 2000: 
* guidelines for the 1993 zine, Sappho: 
* a 1996 comment about the illo by Shelley Butler portraying Kirk/Spock, On the Bridge: 
===Mothers' Fandom Participation as Embarrassments===
Mothers as just plain embarrassing: 
===Gatekeeping and "Allowing" Mothers' Participation===
* from a review of The Turbolift Review (1978): 
===Mothers as Symbols of Shame and Warning===
Mothers have been used as symbols of "good behavior" and conservatism.
* from a description of a 1989 print zine: 
* from a 1997 con report for the 1997 Closet Con, in which a fan imagines paradise: 
* from the 2003 description for A Little B & D: 
* a panel at the 1990 con, Koon-ut-Cali-Con: 
* from the 1986 humorous disclaimer of First Time #5: 
* from a review of the 2000 Sentinel print zine, Jim and Blair Do the World: 
* regarding the camouflaged cover of the 1998 Man from U.N.C.L.E. print zine, Comrades #1: 
* from a fan's 1993 advice to new fans on the internet: 
===The Assumption that Mothers' Interests are Tame and Vanilla===
* some fans have jokingly referred to The Larton Chronicles, a 1998 Professionals set of stories with a bucolic setting and non-explicit romance: 
* in 1979, a zine publisher, Yeoman Press, described one of its publications: 
* from 1994: 
* from a fan in 2004: 
==Some Related Topics==
* Age Statements
* Bitter Old Fanfic Queen
* Fanosaurs
==Meta & Further Reading==
===1983===
* The View from Down Here: A Look at Fans, an essay by Dave Vergano, a 13-year-old Star Wars fan, reflecting on the fannish interests of young people 
===2014===
* (2014)
===2015===
* Reblog if you’re over 20 and still read/write fan fiction. by xhartbigx
* A Note about the X-Files Fandom (2015)
* a historical note (2015)
* Why It Is Not Surprising That There Are Old People On Tumblr, and Why We Are Surprised By It Anyway (2015)
* Too Old for Fandom? (2015)
* (November 2015)
* You're middle aged and still have a tumblr? LOL (October 2015)
* I’m old as balls by @warlordenfilade (2015)
* PSA by @bugsieplusone​ (2015)
===2016===
* Getting older doesn’t actually feel like anything by @catchmewhispering (January 20, 2016)
* You’re totally welcome on my lawn, but I wish you wouldn’t pee on the grass (2016)
* Ageism in Fandom: Too Old to Fangirl? by @ravenmorganleigh, @vulgarweed (2016)
* you are never too old for fandom by @hils79​ (2016)
===2017===
* Age and Experience in Fandom by @tppfandomstats (2017)
* Age Appropriate Activities by @telesilla (2017)
* Ageism in Fandom by @badtech-reblogs (2017)
* The idea that you will someday be ‘too old’ for the stuff you find fun by @freedom-of-fanfic (2017)
* I wish we’d stop telling each other - and ourselves - that there’s a point at which we’re too old for fandom by @vantasticmess​ (2017)
* Like, i’m not saying that adults don’t have a place in fandom. they can and they do, and many are perfectly great people. by @porcupine-girl​, @melifair​, et al (2017)
* tumblr’s disgust for older people in fandom by @bai-xue​, @awkward-smiley (2017)
* Your favorite fic author is probably over 30. by Xochiquetzl (July 11, 2017)
* You are reinforcing a stereotype by @asocialjusticeleague​, @olderthannetfic​, et al (August-September 2017)
* If other people in fandom are older than you, by definition, they have been your age by @codenamecesare (Oct 12, 2017)
===2018===
* Look I don't wanna sound like a Fandom Mom or whatever but what do you think women over 25 or so are supposed to do? by @roxolotl (2018)
* Reblog if Older Fans Are Welcome In Fandom by @cameoamalthea (Feb 25, 2018)
* Last week, I turned 36, and according to some, I’ve already overstayed my welcome in fandom by at least a decade. (August 2018)
* Adults in Fandom by @littlesystems (2018)
* Fandom culture wouldn’t be where it is now if it wasn’t for Old Fandom by @thepalmtoptiger (2018)
* Older fans are crucial to the survival of fandoms by @muchymozzarella (2018)
===2019===
* Sometimes I see people in fandom talking (Ageism In Fandom) (Jan 17, 2019)
===2020===
* (2020)
===2021===
* (Sept 2021)
* (Feb 2021)
* "...it's more complicated...Adults who consume are beneficial to capitalism...There is no capitalist drive to pressure adults into not consuming fun things; there is a huge drive to pressure adults to consume more of it as a panacea...[Ageists and misogynists in fandom] haven't bought into capitalist brainwashing. They've found an acceptable target, one that is supported by social norms and their own fears. And sure, it's a reflection of those fears and feelings of powerlessness, but it's also because some of them like hurting people. It doesn't become less liking to harass people if their targets aren't their peers. They're just bullies." "They haven't bought into capitalist brainwashing. They've found an acceptable target" (August 8, 2021)
* (October 2021)
=== 2023 ===
* Does anyone else feel complicated When you have a crush on a Minor character (2023)
==References==
Category:Discussion
Category:Fandom Wars