Doc Team/2009-05-27

== Transcript ==
*[13:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: recieved my inventory offer
*[13:00 SLT] Zai Lynch: heyas =)
*[13:00 SLT] Qie Niangao: Hi Torley... oo! and greetings, Zai :)
*[13:00 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Zai
*[13:00 SLT] Torben Trautman: huhu Zai
*[13:00 SLT] Zai Lynch waves ^_^
*[13:00 SLT] Torley Linden: it's all rezzing in for me now...
*[13:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden waves.
*[13:00 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: =]
*[13:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: Torley?
*[13:00 SLT] Xulapa's translator: =]
*[13:00 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Torley where is the watermelon pink on your av???
*[13:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hey jeremy!
*[13:00 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
*[13:00 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hullo.
*[13:00 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: is shocked
*[13:00 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hi Jeremy
*[13:00 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Tourmaline Falken has pinged you.
*[13:01 SLT] Dakotta Karu: hi jeremy
*[13:01 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Dakotta Karu has pinged you.
*[13:01 SLT] Torley Linden: Tourma, hehe, well i do have a shirt... let me see...
*[13:01 SLT] Arawn Spitteler suggests Tourmaline start a line with /me
*[13:01 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: hi jeremy
*[13:01 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Xulapa Orsini has pinged you.
*[13:01 SLT] Xulapa's translator: hi jeremy
*[13:01 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Xulapa's translator has pinged you.
*[13:01 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: thanks Arawn
*[13:01 SLT] Torley Linden: there, that answers that
*[13:01 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: sometimes it's just quicker
*[13:02 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: hm
*[13:02 SLT] Arawn Spitteler didn't know about /me for months after joining
*[13:02 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok ... not quite the right shade of pink ... ;)
*[13:02 SLT] Ando Karu: Hello
*[13:02 SLT] Tourmaline Falken hides
*[13:02 SLT] Torley Linden: actually the pocket protector is correct.
*[13:02 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: ok
*[13:02 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: prob my screen then :(
*[13:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden goes to check the KB and grumbles that their "planned maintenance" is an hour past due.
*[13:03 SLT] Torley Linden: no doubt some of you are here today to talk about the upcoming "Knowledge Base to Wiki Pilot!" or for short, kb2wiki... if you didn't already see our blog post, http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/support/blog/2009/05/26/announcing-the-knowledge-base-wiki-pilot
*[13:03 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Someone needs support, to get back on, but her friend is now off line
*[13:03 SLT] Multi Gadget v1.57.1 by Timeless Prototype
*[13:03 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: hello everyone
*[13:03 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hello Morrigan
*[13:04 SLT] Dakotta Karu: hello morrigan
*[13:04 SLT] Jon Linden will be orbiting the dock for a bit until everybody rezzes
*[13:04 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hey jon!
*[13:04 SLT] Torley Linden: hi Morrigan, you haven't rezzed in for me yet...
*[13:04 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hey Jon!
*[13:04 SLT] Jon Linden: oh, and hello everyone!
*[13:04 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: i'm rezing, please forgive me if i step on anyone's head
*[13:04 SLT] Torben Trautman: don´t come too close Jon you look way to eatable
*[13:04 SLT] Tourmaline Falken watches out for low
*[13:04 SLT] Gordon Wendt: same here, I'm still rezzing so I'm not even trying to move
*[13:04 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: hello jon =]
*[13:04 SLT] Xulapa's translator: hello jon =]
*[13:04 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: extremely laggy today
*[13:04 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: for low flying jellos
*[13:05 SLT] Gordon Wendt: is it just my computer or is Jon a giant blob of Jello?
*[13:05 SLT] Jon Linden: it's not just your computer
*[13:05 SLT] Dakotta Karu: haha
*[13:05 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: I don't see Torley's Tag, or Torley, where-ever he is.
*[13:05 SLT] Jeremy Linden glances at Jon's group title.
*[13:05 SLT] Jon Linden: i constitute a highly nutritious meal
*[13:05 SLT] Torley Linden: oh hey Morrigan, you're that_cat on Twitter! i remember :)
*[13:05 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: Ando, i know it's your rezday today, but your not old enough to be bold
*[13:05 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: he is next to kate
*[13:05 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: yeah containing all those anti-oxidants
*[13:05 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: yes, I am :)
*[13:05 SLT] Ando Karu: Im not!
*[13:06 SLT] Kate Linden: A Knowledge Tree!
*[13:06 SLT] Laurent Bechir: hello
*[13:06 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Hello Laurent
*[13:06 SLT] Laurent Bechir: :)
*[13:06 SLT] Qie Niangao isn't so sure about this "tree of knowledge" idea
*[13:06 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Ah, there's Torley, a jowly howler
*[13:06 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Hey Fritz!
*[13:07 SLT] Fritz Linden: Hi!
*[13:07 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Is there a tree of knowledge which is efficient and lagy?
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: hallo hallo! welcome all to our Office Hour! this week (and likely the next, and future installments...) we'll be focusing on our endeavors to make knowledge more accessible: a test pilot moving the Knowledge Base to the Wiki, starting with the Beginners' articles.
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: hola Fritz!
*[13:07 SLT] Kate Linden: Hi Becky
*[13:07 SLT] Becky Pippen: Hi Kate :_)
*[13:07 SLT] Torley Linden: we're going to have some special guest Lindens like Fritz join us, as part of the bigger "KB2Wiki Project Team" :)
*[13:07 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: great!
*[13:08 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I think we may need more couches...
*[13:08 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hello fritz!
*[13:08 SLT] Torley Linden: as we amass info -- including blog posts, discussion threads, office hour transcripts, etc. they'll be linked to from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/KB2Wiki_Pilot (suitably, a wiki page... using the wiki to document itself!)
*[13:08 SLT] xstorm Radek: OMG!!
*[13:08 SLT] Jon Linden: we'll have to rearrange the dock surreptitiously when nobody's around
*[13:08 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Rez some one couch prims?
*[13:09 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hiya
*[13:09 SLT] xstorm Radek: :-)
*[13:09 SLT] Torben Trautman: hey Marianne
*[13:09 SLT] Jon Linden: well, if someone's legs get tired, just let me know and i can always stand
*[13:09 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Can jello stand?
*[13:09 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Hey, Marianne. Fireworks return next saturday?
*[13:09 SLT] Jon Linden: not that you'd be able to tell with this avatar on anyway
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: and here's Rand!
*[13:09 SLT] Marianne McCann: Yup, Arawn!
*[13:09 SLT] xstorm Radek: i will rez a snail to sit on or a horse
*[13:09 SLT] Torley Linden: does anyone have any questions on your mind before we discuss deeper?
*[13:10 SLT] Marianne McCann: An every Saturday after
*[13:10 SLT] Zai Lynch: yuss, I was wondering if the KB import would be done "by hand" or via a bot, since this page https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Title_Test_for_Pilot made me curious
*[13:10 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hi rand!
*[13:10 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I had a problem with Voice whereby friends could hear me even though my Voice Button was off
*[13:10 SLT] Torley Linden: a FANTASTIC question... !
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I have downloaded the RC - is this known to clear that bug?
*[13:11 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We're working with Yoz, Fritz and Rand to try to automate as much of the import/export process as possible :-)
*[13:11 SLT] Jon Linden: tourmaline, i'm not sure
*[13:11 SLT] Fritz Linden: we're working on an automated system for moving the content, and hope to make it all automagic
*[13:11 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: will this use the standard wiki search engine?
*[13:11 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I was adivsed to try it - it is very disconcerting if people can hear you if you don't know they can
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: Morrigan, initially but we have HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR the requests to add Google search.
*[13:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: woot!
*[13:12 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: Tourmalina: the voice chat is not part of SL and/or LL. its seperately hosted, it could be the server has problems again
*[13:12 SLT] Zai Lynch: @google search
*[13:12 SLT] Torley Linden: in the meantime as a workaround, http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=site%3Awiki.secondlife.com and type your query next to that.
*[13:12 SLT] Jon Linden: moving the KB into the wiki will also make it possible to use the inworld Search window to look through it as well
*[13:12 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We're going to be using our existing wiki, but we're also making a concerted effort to include Google search for everyone's convenience.
*[13:12 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I t appeard to affect only one friend on one sim - but several times over a period of 2 weeks
*[13:12 SLT] Jon Linden: at least that's the idea
*[13:13 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: So a very weird bug
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: aye, and inworld Search is Google Search Appliance-based, so there's some more unification there.
*[13:13 SLT] Jon Linden: tourmaline, i was about to ask if you'd checked the PJIRA for any similar reports
*[13:13 SLT] Zai Lynch: @automatted import: are you replacing the html syntax with wiki syntax and found a way to automatically change KB links to interwiki links?
*[13:13 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I did find a report, yes, and it was marked "resolved" but I didnt see any obvious cures recommended. It was on v 1.22 which is why I downloaded the RC
*[13:13 SLT] Torley Linden: (if anyone hasn't tried it, click Search button on the toolbar, All tab, then click Any Category. you can currently search the Wiki.)
*[13:14 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I have had hear of two other cases.
*[13:14 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: wb rand!
*[13:14 SLT] Jon Linden: fritz or rand will have a better answer for zai than i would
*[13:14 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[13:14 SLT] Torley Linden: @Zai generally yes, and we're examining the best possible ways to import things like images. i'll let Fritz and Rand give more details.
*[13:14 SLT] Fritz Linden: @zai, yep that is the plan
*[13:14 SLT] TumbleWeed Loopen accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:14 SLT] Rand Linden: zai, yes, it will be wiki syntax
*[13:15 SLT] Rand Linden: and links should be MOSTLY fixed
*[13:15 SLT] xstorm Radek: OMG!! google was slip in ?
*[13:15 SLT] Rand Linden: but there will undoubtedly be some cleanup still left to do
*[13:15 SLT] Zai Lynch nods
*[13:15 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Is there an automated way to parse these imports into the proper syntax or are we going to have to rewrite a lot of these to appear properly
*[13:15 SLT] xstorm Radek: my heart will not stand it every thing is moving to fast
*[13:15 SLT] Rand Linden: Gordon, much of it will be automated
*[13:15 SLT] Torley Linden: also Zai, i know you've been such a big helper with getting videos included. for you and everyone else interested -- all the new video widget code will be Vimeo (not YouTube) due to higher-quality and elegance.
*[13:16 SLT] Gordon Wendt: especially in regards to how the wiki handles single spaces as a line break and double spaces as double page break (break between lines)
*[13:16 SLT] Zai Lynch: okies :-)
*[13:16 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Rand, that's good, fixing that up will be some good work to get done, fixing up every single kb article would be a lot though
*[13:16 SLT] Laurent Bechir: Torley : does it means that localized videos should be moved to Vimeo ?
*[13:16 SLT] Torley Linden: the code is very easy, e.g., {{#widget:Vimeo|id=3578377|width=640|height=480}} (the ID is found in a Vimeo video's URL)... paste that into any page and you get a video :-) Laurent, it doesn't. you will STILL be able to use YouTube.
*[13:16 SLT] Jeremy Linden: We're going to do the best we can to automate the conversion, but due to the sometimes inconsistent nature of the HTML in our Parature articles there will undoubtedly be some sections that slip through.
*[13:17 SLT] Fritz Linden: we're using a third party library for converting to wikicode from html, but we hope it does most of the work for you
*[13:17 SLT] Kate Linden: During the pilot there will be roughly 70 articles moved to the wiki.
*[13:17 SLT] Rand Linden: Gordon, yes, its a lot of work, and we hope the automated import will handle most of the issues...
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: but if YouTube quality is lacking for you, try Vimeo. :-)
*[13:17 SLT] Jon Linden: i have great confidence in our wikineers' ability to get the bulk of the conversion done seamlessly
*[13:17 SLT] Laurent Bechir: :)
*[13:17 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, are historical videos going to be moved to vimeo as well or just from now on?
*[13:17 SLT] Torley Linden: like many things wiki-like, we can safely presume that there'll be many small changes that make a big difference.
*[13:18 SLT] Laurent Bechir: @Torley : do you use normal or HD on Vimeo for the tutos ?
*[13:18 SLT] Zai Lynch: Have you got some kind of roadmap / shedule for this shift?
*[13:18 SLT] Torley Linden: Gordon, all the KB videos will be changed to Vimeo code. as for other videos already on the wiki, i've replaced a few of the more popular ones. feel free to replace any others. if you search for the same video title @ http://vimeo.com they should show up.
*[13:18 SLT] Jon Linden: we'll see how the pilot goes, zai
*[13:18 SLT] Gordon Wendt: ok cool, all your tutorials are popular btw :)
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: Laurent, now that's a GREAT question. here's the interesting thing: my video tutorials have been non-HD, which Vimeo is better at. HOWEVER, YouTube actually has higher-quality (and free to embed) HD. so in the future if more video tutorials go to HD, we'll want to take advantage of that.
*[13:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: I see =)
*[13:19 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Strife
*[13:19 SLT] Arawn Spitteler calculates: A World War II Blockbuster, detonated within five meters line of sight of any annoying fly in your kitchen, will usually get the fly, but there may be some cleanup left to do.
*[13:19 SLT] Qie Niangao marvels to rez a Zai and a Strife in one sighting
*[13:19 SLT] Zai Lynch: ellow =)
*[13:19 SLT] Torley Linden: i note one of the factors blocking me from migrating vidtuts to HD is that most portable devices (like the current-gen iPods) do NOT support HD. that's why i use 640x480 resolution, this will likely change in the future.
*[13:20 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i did not even try it on my i-Touch (first gen)
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: it's fun to make videos but formats is a HORRIBLE QUAGMIRE, there are so many moving pieces.
*[13:21 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i do play your video's full screen on PC tho, which is a 22" screen.
*[13:21 SLT] Laurent Bechir: @Torley: what could be nice is to keep the Itunes since that way you could have HD on Itunes and normal on other like Vimeo, no ?
*[13:21 SLT] Torley Linden: cool Xaria -- yeah, the web versions should work on any web browser with Flash, the downloadable (MP4) versions work on any supported device. Laurent, i've discussed that as part of a larger communications plan... we're planning to do more Linden original multimedia content.
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: if that grows a lot, it'll certainly be worth maintaining an iTunes channel, yup. :-)
*[13:22 SLT] Jon Linden: all of these have been great questions
*[13:22 SLT] Jon Linden: we can take some more if you've got 'em!
*[13:22 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: 1680 x 1050 pixels
*[13:22 SLT] Torley Linden: FEED US MOAR QUESTIONS PLZ!
*[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: Whats the air speed velocity of an unladen sparrow?
*[13:23 SLT] Jeremy Linden: What do you mean? African or European?
*[13:23 SLT] Marianne McCann: I... I don't know
*[13:23 SLT] Torley Linden: a key theme we're keeping in mind is having the same info (basically) fed through different channels -- single-sourcing -- instead of having to needlessly duplicate the same things to where they get out-of-sync and stale, that's a pain for everyone.
*[13:23 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wonders if this is the first Subportal Maintenance, since certain Prosperos went for greener pastures
*[13:23 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: American or European Linden
*[13:23 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: about the basic knowledge for begginers: are there any plans to translate at least the basic information from the wiki/knowledge base to more languages?
*[13:23 SLT] Fritz Linden: we'll be moving the pictures in the KB articles over to the wiki as well (fixing the links should be automatic)
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: @Morrigan (haha, i'm so used to @ from Twitter) -- yes, and we're thankful for a lot of volunteer translation help on that front.
*[13:24 SLT] Gordon Wendt: It'll be nice to actually have real links to KB articles
*[13:24 SLT] Torley Linden: there's already some KB articles localized on the Wiki.
*[13:24 SLT] Gordon Wendt: instead of the pseudo links that half the time popped you back to the main kb page
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: links: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Localization_Portal
*[13:25 SLT] Torley Linden: Gordon, i hate those. oh i hate those HATE THOSE
*[13:25 SLT] Strife Onizuka: Oh I have a question, can i look at the SL server source code as to better write LSL documentation?
*[13:25 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: @Torley - /me is willing to help with polish translations if needed
*[13:25 SLT] Zai Lynch: ^^
*[13:25 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: this one is for Rand or Fritz: I been hearing something about adding googlesearch to the wiki, but unfortunately I did not get more then that. Could you tell us more about this?
*[13:26 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, in regards to the kb translation project are those pages going to have to be hand linked to their en kb article once the relevent article is moved over or can that be automated as well?
*[13:26 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Colton!
*[13:26 SLT] Colton Linden: Hias :)
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: Strife, i don't know... sounds like a good question for devs working on that front. :)
*[13:26 SLT] Fritz Linden: I'm not involved in search stuff, sorry
*[13:26 SLT] Torley Linden: oh heya Colton!
*[13:27 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: hey colton! nice seeing you here!
*[13:27 SLT] Qie Niangao: I've noticed some performance blips on the wiki today. May have been nothing, but do we know if there are cycles to spare for the KB, or if some scaling-up will be needed?
*[13:27 SLT] Gordon Wendt: I don't see how that could be done automatically but hand linking them is going to mean a lot of fragmented translation pages until they can all be linked up
*[13:27 SLT] Jon Linden: i believe our hosting provider was having some issues, qie
*[13:27 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon I don't know for sure what we can automate there, but that's well-worth figuring out if we can automate -- thanks for pointing that out. *makes a note*
*[13:27 SLT] Qie Niangao: right, i saw the jira outage, etc.
*[13:27 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: friendly greetings! could i please havea your bear?
*[13:27 SLT] Fritz Linden: We'll be monitoring the load that the KB adds, and make changes if needed
*[13:27 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: =]
*[13:27 SLT] Qie Niangao: thanks Fritz. :)
*[13:27 SLT] Xulapa's translator: =]
*[13:28 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Also, any chance of session time for the wiki being extended, it currently seems to be 5-10 or so then the session times ouit
*[13:28 SLT] Gordon Wendt: 5-10 minutes that is
*[13:28 SLT] Ando Karu: @Torley We were also planning to make some video tuts in polish, we're getting to know the software right now so it will take some time
*[13:28 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
*[13:28 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: lol, torley, new bear?
*[13:28 SLT] Zai Lynch: we got an overview about all translations, maybe you can code something that automatically replaces the kbl10n templates with multi-lang templates. it's over here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/CT_Project_Overview
*[13:28 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: eu amo ursos me da 1 por favor?
*[13:28 SLT] Xulapa's translator: I love bears me the 1 please?
*[13:28 SLT] Jeremy Linden: There are going to be some questions about the KB-to-wiki pilot program that we can't answer today; keep your eyes on the blogs for an announcement of a special office hour with more of the team to answer them!
*[13:28 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=TO-WIKI
*[13:28 SLT] Jeremy Linden: ack. HUD bug.
*[13:28 SLT] Marianne McCann's ears perk up, "New bear?"
*[13:28 SLT] Jon Linden: please IM your bear requests to us, it makes it easier to track
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon, 5-10 minutes seems much shorter than expected. it should not be that short. it usually doesn't ask me to relog unless i quit my browser session. hmmm.
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: Xaria, i haven't changed my bear, alas.
*[13:28 SLT] Torley Linden: @Ando oh lovely! if you have any questions about video production just let me know :)
*[13:28 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: ow jeremy, you should not have said that, now i have a idea for a new avi :D
*[13:28 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): Xaria Mistwallow has pinged you.
*[13:29 SLT] Jeremy Linden: Grid bug?
*[13:29 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: lol, still thanks Torley! I have 2 now! :)
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah, the good stuff we can't answer now, we're definitely going to bring this to more Lindens and get more details for you. so look for followup. :)
*[13:29 SLT] Gordon Wendt: @Torley, the way my browser is setup it should clear anyway when I relog but I'm accepting everything as a session cookie
*[13:29 SLT] Morrigan Polanski feels ashamed not to have any Linden Bears yet
*[13:29 SLT] Marianne McCann feels ashamed about how many she does have
*[13:29 SLT] Rand Linden: Xaria, re: Google search - yes we are working on it. Hope to have it done soon. Difficulty is making it work with MW version upgrades...
*[13:29 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon hm, which browser? i'm on Firefox 3 -- last i checked with Rob Linden, the expected behavior is for it to persist. i'm not sure *how* long that goes to for sure, though.
*[13:30 SLT] Gordon Wendt: may be something on my end, I'll try a few things and file a JIRA if it persists
*[13:30 SLT] Freedom Delgado: I am using Chrome. So far it works well.
*[13:30 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: no, hugbug :p you said hud bug, but ow well... :p
*[13:30 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks Gordon, try in multiple browsers (with cookies on) if you can, too.
*[13:31 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: Rand: ah okay, i guess we'll see more of that subject when it's done =)
*[13:31 SLT] Fritz Linden: @Gordon, we're looking at ways to make it easy to link between the English and Localized articles, but it is complicated
*[13:31 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, I have a few questions about you're conversation on Zai's page beginning 4-16 but I'm not sure if that's something you publicly want to talk about yet
*[13:31 SLT] Zai Lynch: question @ KB organization... the KB uses folders, the wiki provides categories. we started to discuss a better categorization of translated KB articles in the Wiki tho i guess now, that the KB most probably will move to the wiki, you might want to opt in in that discussion.... maybe you can read up in the CT Projects mailing list on it and add your thoughts(?)
*[13:31 SLT] Torley Linden: it's really great to have your upfront concerns and curiosities; after all, you are going to be browsing the KB-Wiki and/or actively contributing so it's really important we make it smooth.
*[13:31 SLT] WidgetHUD v1.2 (Mono): http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=WIKI
*[13:32 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon oh go ahead, if i can't answer i'll let you know.
*[13:32 SLT] Xulapa Orsini accepted your inventory offer.
*[13:32 SLT] Fritz Linden: @Zai yep, I'm actively thinking about that stuff
*[13:32 SLT] Zai Lynch: @Fritz: we are already linking translations. also have a look at Template:Multi-lang and Template:Kbl10n
*[13:32 SLT] Rand Linden: Zai, I think the first cut will be to put articles into categories corresponding to the folders they are in...
*[13:32 SLT] Gordon Wendt: What are the duties, responsibilities and privileges (software privileges that is) goign to be for superusers, what do you see their role as being?
*[13:33 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: brb, asthma attack >.>
*[13:33 SLT] Torley Linden: i HEART some of those templates; Zai, you know the KB boxes like "Tip" and such? we're hoping to replace those with Wiki templates too. so that'll be neater formatting.
*[13:33 SLT] Torben Trautman: ooo hb Xaria
*[13:33 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wonders if SuperUsers would include us bums who hang around all the time
*[13:34 SLT] Rand Linden: @Gordon - good question: it will be up to the community ultimately, but in part it will be ensuring accuracy of articles, preventing spam, etc.
*[13:34 SLT] Zai Lynch: i made templates for these boxes.... Template:KBnote, Template:KBwarning, Template:KBhint, Template:KB errr... i had a 4th one...
*[13:34 SLT] Zai Lynch: please mod exisiting templates rather than adding new ones... the ones mentioned above are already in use on translated pages...
*[13:34 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Fritz, I'm not good with languages I'll be the first to admit that but the translators have done a good job translating these linking them up should be a cakewalk and categories can be our friend there by tagging unlinked translations with [category:unlinked translations] and making it a project for the translators to link that up
*[13:34 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon, aha! we have a more public spec of that appearing soon -- we'll let very active contributors (and others who grow to be that) review articles. so watch for details.
*[13:34 SLT] Dawny Daviau: hi all
*[13:35 SLT] Torben Trautman: hi Dawny
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: it's going to be OPT-IN... no one will be forced, hence the term "volunteers". "superuser" really means "someone who contributes oodles of goodness to the Wiki" and it was a sensible place to start.
*[13:35 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, you've been to the M Linden school of spin doctoring answers haven't you? :)
*[13:35 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: back
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon wha? =D
*[13:35 SLT] Torben Trautman: hehehe
*[13:35 SLT] Torley Linden: @Zai OH SWEET, get me the 4th one and we'll make a note of that. agreed.
*[13:35 SLT] Gordon Wendt: @Torley, you're response about more info coming soon sounds just like M's announcements
*[13:36 SLT] Marianne McCann: Unreleated randomness: Not sure if this would be of any use to anyone, but I figure I'll toss it out there anyway. A Map I made of a small chunk of the grid yesterday. Just me being obsessive. http://www.flickr.com/photos/marianne-mccann/3567710058/
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon haha well i certainly can't make up an answer on the spot i don't have unless i was gonna lie about it, Paul Bunyan-tall-tale-style! ;D
*[13:36 SLT] Jon Linden: i imagine they'll also be there to make sure articles conform to our style guide, which we'll make available as part of the pilot
*[13:36 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon but seriously, we like to give you advance notice and then fill in details later. it's better than waking up one day and declaring "EEEEVERYTHING HAS CHANGED MUAHAH"
*[13:36 SLT] Arawn Spitteler wonders if Torley ever heard of McCaffrey's Get of the Unicorn
*[13:37 SLT] Jeremy Linden: At this office hour, we're trying our best to answer all your questions; for the ones we either can't or won't answer today, we'll be holding a set of separate, special office hours in the coming weeks.
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: @Arawn no, only Unicorn Chasers on Boing Boing. :p
*[13:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: Template:KBtrivia
*[13:37 SLT] Zai Lynch: is the 4th one
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: @Zai, oh, interestingly we were discussing whether trivia and note could be the same thing.
*[13:37 SLT] Torley Linden: OKAY NOTED.
*[13:37 SLT] Fritz Linden: We're trying to finish the code that could conv ert the entire wiki and just use it for the pilot, so it will be helpful to get feedback once the pilot starts about what you like/don't about how it converted things
*[13:37 SLT] Qie Niangao: (cool map, Mari. :) )
*[13:37 SLT] Marianne McCann: Thankoo, Qie
*[13:38 SLT] Fritz Linden: er, just use it for the pilot articles
*[13:38 SLT] Gordon Wendt: One of my to-do's is to reform some of the older out of use templates to be more useful
*[13:38 SLT] Zai Lynch: @categorizing articles in need of translations: we already got that too.... Template:Multi-lang is doing that....
*[13:38 SLT] Torley Linden: yeah, the Pilot aims to go beyond theory, so on the live Wiki, you can understand, hands-on, how the new Knowledge Base format works.
*[13:38 SLT] Gordon Wendt: and the ones that have no pages linking to them and are no longer used are getting blanked and tagged with {{delete}}
*[13:38 SLT] Gordon Wendt: although I'm not sure how often that queue actually gets checked and purged
*[13:39 SLT] Strife Onizuka: @Gordon: which templates did you have in mind
*[13:39 SLT] Torley Linden: cleanup like that is really important, thanks Gordon. i know there are lots of stray bits, and so often, while the Wiki thrives on collective input, one person spotting something like that can make a tremendous difference. i'm not sure about the {{delete}} either.
*[13:40 SLT] Fodastic Paule: ♥
*[13:40 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Strife, I redid the stub template and the none linden policy page template which then got a total overhaul by Zai
*[13:40 SLT] Gordon Wendt: *non
*[13:40 SLT] Zai Lynch: the overhaul was strife, actually ^^
*[13:40 SLT] Gordon Wendt: oops
*[13:40 SLT] Gordon Wendt: strife then
*[13:40 SLT] Torley Linden: we're also looking forward to working with experienced Wiki contributors to make the Wiki easier to get into for newcomers. we're all noobs once, eh?
*[13:41 SLT] Gordon Wendt: and one of my hopes soon is to either import template:to-do from Wikipedia if we can get it through the licensing change or write one from scratch
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: the game audio guru George Sanger once said something like, "if you teach someone to fish, you're really teaching them to teach someone else to fish."
*[13:41 SLT] Strife Onizuka: <= noob 5 years ago
*[13:41 SLT] Laurent Bechir: @Torley : we're all the noobs of someone :)
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: hahaha.
*[13:41 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, maybe one project should be a Welcome to the Secondlife Wiki page
*[13:41 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: that sounds great Torley! sure would be a big help for starters to have a easier wiki
*[13:41 SLT] Torley Linden: @Strife i remember being a noob and ending up at your twisted tori exhibition at the LSL scripting fair, i believe it was!
*[13:41 SLT] Gordon Wendt makes a note of that
*[13:42 SLT] Strife Onizuka: (i remember that event)
*[13:42 SLT] Marianne McCann: Hey Cait
*[13:42 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon yes, i imagine "Get help using this wiki" and related stuff could be edited/upgraded. i'm planning to do a new video intro eventually, a shorter, quicker one.
*[13:42 SLT] Caitlyn Clawtooth: heyas!
*[13:42 SLT] Strife Onizuka: We can import wikipedia content on June 15th, i was just readding about that today; mediawiki isn't changing their licences, they are dual licensing their content
*[13:43 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: btw, would it not be easier for starters to have the knowlage about the wiki from the start? instead of gaining the knowlage by accident? I suggest placing on each starter/help island atleast a sign with information about the wiki and a link to it
*[13:43 SLT] Zai Lynch: but as written in the editing discussions, the contribution agreement isn't CC BY-SA. it needs public domain, as far as i understand it
*[13:43 SLT] Torley Linden: Xaria, it's true making knowledge more *discoverable* and *marketing* it effectively is really important. by natural consequence of the KB being on the Wiki, if the Pilot fares well, then yes, it'll give us many more opportunities to PUT THIS UPFRONT in inworld help kiosks and such.
*[13:43 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: perhaps add the same thing to welcome area's, and any several Linden places that are big enough
*[13:44 SLT] Gordon Wendt: on their end it is I think Zai, it's CC-BY-SA-NC
*[13:44 SLT] Gordon Wendt: or something like that
*[13:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: on wikipedias end. yes. tho not on ours
*[13:44 SLT] xstorm Radek: can it not work inworld better too ?
*[13:44 SLT] Zai Lynch: not NC
*[13:44 SLT] Fritz Linden: I have another meeting, but I'll pop back in future weeks as we progress on the project :)
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: we're also planning linkage to the pilot from the current http://secondlife.com/support -- as well as a site notice across the Wiki itself.
*[13:44 SLT] Torley Linden: take care Fritz! thanks for being with us!
*[13:44 SLT] Strife Onizuka: (mediawiki folks are going with CC-BY-SA)
*[13:45 SLT] Gordon Wendt: oh yeah, that needs to be rewritten on our end Torley, currently we have to dual license our contributions with LL but we can't with CC licensed content because we don't hold the license
*[13:45 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: I think it's even better to give anyone involved with the Lindens inworld, like translators for example, a second job, giving out info like that. even if it is a notecard or a box with goodies
*[13:45 SLT] Caitlyn Clawtooth: this is the site the mentors are banging at now, right?
*[13:45 SLT] xstorm Radek: what about GNU ?
*[13:45 SLT] Gordon Wendt: if the wiki will cooperate I'll quote the offending text
*[13:46 SLT] Strife Onizuka: I'm not sure that wiki contributions are covered by the contributer agreement
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria, and wherever possible we're tracking what actually gets used, like # of clicks from inworld signs. after all, sucks if we have advertisements but no one is using them. :)
*[13:46 SLT] Marianne McCann: Gotta scoot. Time to hop into Photoshop
*[13:46 SLT] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!
*[13:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: I think all are.... tho I'm no lawyer
*[13:46 SLT] Gordon Wendt: "You hereby assign to Linden Lab joint ownership in all worldwide common law and statutory rights associated with the copyrights, copyright applications and copyright registrations in Your Contribution, and to the extent allowable under applicable moral laws and copyright conventions"...
*[13:46 SLT] Zai Lynch: cyas marianne!
*[13:46 SLT] Strife Onizuka: take care ^^
*[13:46 SLT] Jon Linden: be well!
*[13:46 SLT] Marianne McCann: You too!
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: you'll likely see this Pilot mentioned on the Message of the Day, http://twitter.com/secondlife , and other places we can reach the eyeballs of interested Residents.
*[13:46 SLT] Torley Linden: have a creative one Mari!
*[13:46 SLT] Gordon Wendt: that quote is from https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project:Contribution_Agreement
*[13:47 SLT] Kate Linden: Caitlyn, Resident Answers is another site. We are talking about the KB to Wiki Pilot.
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: bom estou indo embora =]
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa's translator: good I'm leaving =]
*[13:47 SLT] xstorm Radek: is that not cover under the TOS ?
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: tchau a todos
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa's translator: bye to all
*[13:47 SLT] Kate Linden: Although there will be a lot of great content on the Resident Answers site that will make great KB articles.
*[13:47 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: @Torley: good point, perhaps offer people on xStreet free tools to place in their sim(s) to aid new players in this. it could help alot. do make it so that one of the Lindens actually places these jus tlike the xStreet terminals
*[13:47 SLT] Jon Linden: be well xulapa!
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa Orsini: =]
*[13:47 SLT] Xulapa's translator: =]
*[13:47 SLT] Strife Onizuka: (well i'll be, it is governed by the contributer agreement)
*[13:47 SLT] Torley Linden: re: legal details we have been working with Linden Lab Legal Dept. to make sure things are covered. complex issues, i know.
*[13:48 SLT] xstorm Radek: if we do it from inworld ?
*[13:48 SLT] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)Jeremy Linden 21:03, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
*[13:48 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: @Torley is there any kind of MOTD archive?
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria yes, word-of-mouth promotion can be very powerful (i learned this firsthand from video tutorials :) ). so we aim to look where that knowledge is needed and CONNECT.
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: @Morrigan why YES! http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Motd
*[13:48 SLT] Caitlyn Clawtooth: thanks, was just catching up on the notecards waiting for me to read on login and that was one :)
*[13:48 SLT] Torley Linden: it's not totally complete but has like, 90% of them.
*[13:49 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: @Torley: since this meeting is very well visited, and the bug triage meetings aswell, its probably a good idea to place something like that there
*[13:49 SLT] Arawn Spitteler quotes from standard legal boilerplate: "All that is viewed, in world, is Creative Content, with rights to copy retained by Linden Labs, which also retains the right to remove such vision from your mind at any time."
*[13:50 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria yes, we have more Doc Team promo goodies we'll be revealing too, to encourage info-flow (inflow?). all... in... good... time. :-)
*[13:50 SLT] Strife Onizuka: does the Doc Team have t-shirts to give out?
*[13:50 SLT] Jon Linden: if only!
*[13:51 SLT] Jon Linden: this body has no need of clothing
*[13:51 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: I want a jello t shirt
*[13:51 SLT] Torley Linden: t-shirts makes us sound like a rock band! *air guitar riff*
*[13:51 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: @Torley: sounds good! think ill be able to find some places that are well visited aswell, perhaps those places aswell will be allowing atleast the info about the wiki be placed
*[13:51 SLT] Gordon Wendt: sorry was afk for a secom
*[13:51 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: wb gordon
*[13:51 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: The Linden T-shirts - yeah good name for a band lol
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: some of the ideas i've heard about knowledge-sharing are brilliant, but they're like Point E in the timeline... once we finish A, B, C, D, that'll open doors to get there, so to speak. but awesome to aware of them in the present so we can anticipate those needs.
*[13:52 SLT] Gordon Wendt: @Torley, in regards to legal I know it's complex but until that's changed we can't use any wikipedia content which is a shame especially in regards to templates and from what I've heard the history of secondlife page
*[13:52 SLT] Kate Linden: @Torley, we're more like a "Doc Band"
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: HAHAHAH DOC BAND
*[13:52 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon yes; for consistency and convenience i agree.
*[13:52 SLT] Jon Linden: hahahahaha
*[13:53 SLT] Arawn Spitteler: Linden Linens, featuring Shorts, T-shirt, Stockings, Bandage, and the entire Doc Crew
*[13:53 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: @wiki team: is it perhaps possible to addin themes that can be used individually? This will be very handy for people. And what about linking SL profiles to the wiki pages (if the person allowes this theirselfs of course)
*[13:53 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: going again Colton?
*[13:54 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: i suppose meetings like that are the key and they should be wider announced as people tend to think that Lindens are the ones "up there" that are completely inaccessible
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria in https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Special:Preferences there are a choice of themes/skins. not as elaborate as you might want, but we're looking at other skinning improvements for the default MonoBook theme.
*[13:54 SLT] Morrigan Polanski: knowledge from the first hand is the best thing you can get
*[13:54 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: ah okay, thanks for the headsup Torley!
*[13:54 SLT] Torley Linden: @Morrigan i'm with ya there, we need to squash those perceptions 'cause we are friendly :) that's why i take a lot of pics of my inworld adventures too.
*[13:54 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: what about the profile linking part?
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria oh, that's been discussed -- working hyperlinks in profiles like the ones in text chat. i don't know if that's going to be done, though.
*[13:55 SLT] Strife Onizuka: @Torley: Speaking of skins and themes, the LSL Portal has a HUGE amount of inline CSS
*[13:55 SLT] Zai Lynch: I think that every user can create their own theme... I'd have to backup but I'm almost sure. and @userpages: you can create them the way you like. if you want to link to your profile, you can
*[13:55 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Xaria, User:[Username}/monobook.css and User:[Username]/monobook.js are your friends if you know css and javascript
*[13:55 SLT] Zai Lynch: ah yeah that's the files I had in mind... gordon is faster ^^
*[13:55 SLT] Torley Linden: @Strife @Zai @Gordon SMART! CLEVER! i didn't know you could do that.
*[13:55 SLT] Gordon Wendt: that's if you're still using the default monobook skin, if you're using something else you replace monobook with teh skin name
*[13:55 SLT] Strife Onizuka: things might be faster if we had a CSS extension that let us inline some real CSS into the articles
*[13:55 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: @Torley: atleast its being discussed, thats atleast a start and positive news i suppose!
*[13:56 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: bye Colton :o
*[13:56 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: he left again without saying goodbye :p
*[13:56 SLT] Gordon Wendt: @Torley, added that to my to do list, a guide on customizing styles on the SL wiki, that's an advanced topic though
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: this is exactly why we love hearing from you. yeah Xaria, the wiki User: pages are a sort of super-profile.
*[13:56 SLT] Torley Linden: @Gordon yeh, i'd gauge to see how much demand/how many people would actually use it and that'll help you gauge priorities.
*[13:57 SLT] Torley Linden: i bet there's prolly some advanced way with Greasemonkey to style pages to your heart's content but that's fairly obscure too
*[13:57 SLT] Gordon Wendt: It only effects when you're logged in though but if you have something that's universally useful and that everyone can use then you can bug an admin and they can add it to the master file
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: as we've learned from SL's Preferences themselves, many people don't mess with stuff past the defaults, and maybe a few clicks. so it's healthy to have solid defaults. :)
*[13:58 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Torley, a greasemonkey script is just a javascript file I think
*[13:58 SLT] Torley Linden: and then power users can go wild!!!
*[13:58 SLT] Strife Onizuka: i wouldn't recommend using GM for adding style, we don't use classes on the wiki much
*[13:58 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i noticed something like that yeah, I do hope each person gets a oppertunity to addin their own profiles and perhaps LL can add extra details on good and bad things, i know, sounds a bit not nice, but it might be a vital thing in trusting a person. also great for bussiness. everyone should be able to post once a ratig and a little text about the person
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria a more robust social reputation system has been floating around for a long time since we removed the old-style ratings.
*[13:59 SLT] Gordon Wendt: be careful with your personal .files especially the .js file, you can screw yourself up to the point where an admin has to come in and wipe the file for you, trust me I know
*[13:59 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: even better, but at least you get my point i think :p
*[13:59 SLT] Torley Linden: @Xaria it's likely the existing Xstreet ratings/reviews will become a part of it.
*[13:59 SLT] Data Landau: misses old styly ratings
*[13:59 SLT] Data Landau: style
*[13:59 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: ow that would be great!
*[13:59 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Xaria, maybe a directory of cool UI tweaks?
*[14:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: gordon, you mean in the viewer itself?
*[14:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: if so, would be a nice addition yeah
*[14:00 SLT] Strife Onizuka: did i already say I was under the impression that the i didn't think the custom JS and CSS feature of the wiki wasn't working?
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: ever since we acquired Xstreet various Lindens have been thinking about what can be integrated better into the Viewer -- to make it easier to shop, drive sales, share interests (a friend bought something you might like too), etc.
*[14:00 SLT] Gordon Wendt: I meant on the wiki if we're still talking about wiki style tweaks
*[14:00 SLT] Freedom Delgado: I must go. Thank you all. It has been very illuminating.
*[14:00 SLT] Torley Linden: oh thanks for being with us, Freedom
*[14:00 SLT] Jon Linden: feel free to stop by again!
*[14:00 SLT] Gordon Wendt: Strife, not sure, I didn't notice that
*[14:00 SLT] Gordon Wendt: if it isn't then it should be fixed though because when used properly it can do beautiful things
*[14:00 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: I would like to join on that Torley, I am a merchant myself so I know what could be handy to change and add
*[14:01 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: i think its a good thing to add in a group of merchants into the team to think about ideas for that
*[14:01 SLT] Strife Onizuka: i haven't checked in months if not a year...
*[14:01 SLT] Jon Linden: we have run out the hour and i have to be going, unfortunately
*[14:01 SLT] Torley Linden: thank you so much each and everyone for being with us!
*[14:01 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: ill be personally doign it on my main avi tho
*[14:01 SLT] xstorm Radek: bye Jon
*[14:01 SLT] Tourmaline Falken: Bye Jon
*[14:01 SLT] Torben Trautman: bye Jon
*[14:01 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: bye bye Lindens!
*[14:01 SLT] Jon Linden: be well everyone!
*[14:01 SLT] Rand Linden: Adios!
*[14:01 SLT] Zai Lynch waves
*[14:01 SLT] Torley Linden: look for more news on the KB2Wiki pilot @ http://tr.im/kb2wiki (easy link)
*[14:01 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: bye bye all other people!
*[14:01 SLT] Kate Linden: Thank you all for joining us today.
*[14:01 SLT] Torley Linden: we'll followup.
*[14:01 SLT] Dawny Daviau: Doei doei
*[14:01 SLT] Torben Trautman: bye everybody
*[14:02 SLT] Gordon Wendt: An hour really isn't enough time
*[14:02 SLT] Laurent Bechir: thank you to welcome us and have a nice day :) Au revoir !!
*[14:02 SLT] Data Landau: bye all
*[14:02 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: please do contact me if you could use my help Torley!
*[14:02 SLT] Gordon Wendt: We could easily go on for another hour or two probably
*[14:02 SLT] Torley Linden: thanks for your enthusiasm, Xaria!
*[14:02 SLT] Jeremy Linden: I'll be archiving the transcript from this office hour on the wiki- follow me on Twitter for the link, or check http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours in a few minutes!
*[14:02 SLT] Xaria Mistwallow: would love to help on the xStreet thing
*[14:02 SLT] Torley Linden: yup Gordon, like any great TV show with an arc, to be continued... ;D
*[14:02 SLT] Gordon Wendt: thanks for the meetig Lindens
*[14:02 SLT] Torley Linden: i heart doing these. xstorm, that snail and treasures are so badass.
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