Commerce Office Hours/2009-11-17 10:00

* [9:56] Meta Linden: G'morning folks. :)
* [9:56] Xugu Madison: Morning Meta!
* [9:57] Hazelee Haller: Good morning.
* [9:57] Xugu Madison: hey Pink!
* [9:58] Pink Linden: hi Xugu!
* [9:58] Pink Linden: hi all!
* [9:58] Hazelee Haller: hi, pink
* [9:58] Pink Linden: Hi Hazelee
* [9:58] Xugu Madison: Welcome Siz! Wow, we're Linden-tastic today. How many are we expecting? :)
* [9:58] Pink Linden: Hi Alexxa
* [9:58] Xugu Madison: Is there an agenda, BTW?
* [9:58] Alexxa Despres: Hi Pink
* [9:58] Pink Linden: yes, Xugu, our topic is adult listing policy on XStreetSL
* [9:59] Pink Linden: Colossus will be here shortly to lead the discussion
* [9:59] Pink Linden: Hi Flip
* [9:59] Siz Linden: HI
* [9:59] Flip Monday: Hi there
* [10:00] Rachel Darling: waves good morning/afternoon/evening to everyone
* [10:00] Xugu Madison: Cool!
* [10:00] Pink Linden: Hi Rachel!
* [10:00] Rachel Darling: smiles
* [10:00] Pink Linden: Hi Qie
* [10:00] Hazelee Haller: morning, Rachel
* [10:00] Rachel Darling: hey, Pink, all
* [10:00] Xugu Madison: hi everyone I've given up greeting individually!
* [10:00] Qie Niangao: Hi, Pink, evrybody
* [10:00] Pink Linden: LOL Xugu
* [10:01] Pink Linden: hi Couldbe
* [10:01] Pink Linden: I'm surprised someone hasn't written a script to do it
* [10:01] Pink Linden: ::cough:: good item to sell on xstreet :::cough::: individual hellos
* [10:01] Rachel Darling: laughs
* [10:02] Pink Linden: ah, here's Colossus
* [10:02] Cherry Blossom: Tree : Falling Blossoms OFF
* [10:02] Colossus Linden: Morning Folks
* [10:02] Hazelee Haller: morning, Colossus
* [10:02] Colossus Linden: At least, it's morning here in San Francisco. Where are people joining us from?
* [10:02] Xugu Madison: Automated greeters always seemed a bit... wrong...
* [10:03] Flip Monday: Earth
* [10:03] Xugu Madison: I'm UK, so fairly much just out of work here
* [10:03] Rachel Darling: Seattle area
* [10:03] Pink Linden: Hello Ann, Hi Yoshi
* [10:03] Yoshi Zhangsun: hi everyone
* [10:03] Siz Linden: Hi Yoshi
* [10:03] Ann Otoole: hello. rubber bandy region today lol
* [10:03] Yoshi Zhangsun: :)
* [10:03] Pink Linden: Hi JubJub
* [10:04] JubJub Forder: hi everyone :)
* [10:04] Pink Linden: chuckles a Linden just suggested we do a free shipping promo for cyber monday
* [10:04] Pink Linden: given we have no shipping....;)
* [10:04] Yoshi Zhangsun: what is cyber monday?
* [10:04] Ann Otoole: hey there's an ide! charge for delivery
* [10:05] Pink Linden: Yoshi do you know what black friday is?
* [10:05] Pink Linden: it's the day after Thanskgiving when retailers in the US typically go "into the black" or become profitable
* [10:05] Yoshi Zhangsun: thats your sales day after thanksgiving right?
* [10:05] Colossus Linden: Can I also get a quick idea of who is here? Are you a shopper or a merchant?
* [10:05] Yoshi Zhangsun: ah
* [10:05] Pink Linden: so...Cyber Monday has risen in the last few years as the day when onlien sales are the largest, because people shop from work
* [10:05] Ann Otoole: it is the day you don't want to be a wal*mart greeter
* [10:05] Pink Linden: or both!
* [10:05] Colossus Linden: If you're a merchant, what are your main areas of focus?
* [10:05] Flip Monday: Black Friday is when the UK Pound was taken out of the exchange rate mechanism
* [10:05] JubJub Forder: merchant
* [10:06] Pink Linden: oh very interesting Flip
* [10:06] Yoshi Zhangsun: well i shopped today and sold today both on xstreet so both i guess
* [10:06] JubJub Forder: merhcant, sculpties and all sorts
* [10:06] Colossus Linden: thanks Yoshi
* [10:06] Rachel Darling: merchant. Mainstream and Fantasy/Medieval/Gorean clothing.
* [10:06] Hazelee Haller: merchant - avatar shapes
* [10:06] Xugu Madison: Merchant, selling scripts. Mostly to cover land rental costs, I don't make enough to be practical as a fulltime job for the time invested, at least at the moment.
* [10:07] Ann Otoole: merchant: whatever i feel like
* [10:07] Qie Niangao: merchant; scripted stuff
* [10:08] Colossus Linden: All right all. Good Morning
* [10:08] Colossus Linden: Today's topic is Adult Content and Adult Content Policies on Xstreet SL
* [10:09] Colossus Linden: Thanks for joining us here, as we can really use some feedback and input.
* [10:10] Colossus Linden: I'm going to stick with the same format that we used in the last office hours
* [10:10] Colossus Linden: Agenda:
* 
* 1. Issues
* * state issues
* * discuss issues 
* 2. Solutions
* * present some options
* * accept other from crowd options
* * Discuss Options
* [10:10] Pink Linden: Hi Ghosty
* [10:10] Ghosty Kips: hi pink
* [10:11] Ann Otoole: This is relevant but you probably never saw it before: 
* [10:11] Colossus Linden: So, I've got a list of issues I have seen myself or heard from you regarding adult content and policies on Xstreet. I'll type those in.
* [10:11] Colossus Linden: Once I'm done, we'll get some feedback on whether those are accurate and what other concerns and issues exist that we haven't captured yet
* [10:12] Sassy Romano: (If i'm all black, blame the viewer and multiple monitors) Hi all
* [10:12] Colossus Linden: Current Xstreet Adult Listing Policies only consider the content of the listing, but not the actual purpose of the item the listing represents
* [10:12] Pink Linden: Hi allie
* [10:13] Colossus Linden: should have put a 1 in front of that :)
* [10:13] Allie Ree: hello Pink, everyone - its great to see all the names I read on the forums and jira in actual avatars
* [10:13] Allie Ree: i was going to say in person, had to catch myself
* [10:14] Colossus Linden: 3. Business shoppers are confronted with non work-safe listings
* [10:15] Colossus Linden: Hmmm, one of my statements has not appeared in my local chat yet
* [10:15] Rachel Darling: missed #2
* [10:15] Yoshi Zhangsun: slooow here today :/
* [10:15] Colossus Linden: I'll retype it. Odd
* [10:15] Colossus Linden: Yes, I typed and entered it.
* [10:15] Flip Monday: it comes AFTER 3 No?
* [10:15] Rachel Darling: just chat lag
* [10:16] Colossus Linden: 2. Shoppers who are not interested in mature or adult content are confronted with mature images and listings for goods intended for adult purposes
* [10:16] Flip Monday: told you :P
* [10:17] Colossus Linden: 4. Shoppers interested in explicit or adult goods must sift through non-adult listings to find what they want.
* [10:17] Ann Otoole: just make xstreet work exactly like the viewer everytone should have works and your problem is solved Collossus
* [10:17] Second Life: Your region will restart in 5 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
* [10:18] Allie Ree: oh dear
* [10:18] Colossus Linden: 5. Merchants who wish to advertise only to shoppers shopping for explicit content can not.
* [10:18] Twistit Saiman: rofl
* [10:18] Yoshi Zhangsun: LOL
* [10:18] JubJub Forder: single signin setting bit value as per Anns Jira
* [10:18] Sassy Romano: chuckes at restart
* [10:18] Rachel Darling: region restart?
* [10:18] Ann Otoole: bonus: consistency and expected behavior
* [10:18] Alexxa Despres: saved by the bell!!!
* [10:18] Xugu Madison: :-D
* [10:18] Mericatherine Quinnell: heahah
* [10:18] Tessa Derryth: bursts out laughing
* [10:18] Couldbe Yue: another glorious day in sl
* [10:18] Colossus Linden: hahaha
* [10:18] Ghosty Kips: nice timing
* [10:18] Twistit Saiman: another? we just fled our sim for the same message
* [10:18] Twistit Saiman: hahaha
* [10:18] Pink Linden: see it happens to us too
* [10:18] Allie Ree: you'd think this would be the one place we'd be safe from such interuptions
* [10:18] Ann Otoole: i got my feedback in before restart! yay
* [10:18] Yoshi Zhangsun: you cant cancel it?
* [10:18] Flip Monday: it happens a lot
* [10:18] Pink Linden: you'd think allie
* [10:18] Pink Linden: makes notes
* [10:18] Alexxa Despres: I know..let's go to Pink's house ;-)
* [10:19] Rachel Darling: party!
* [10:19] Pink Linden: ok folks, see you back here in 10 mins. AND we will add another session to make up for this in the next few days.
* [10:19] Colossus Linden: 6. Merchants selling skins must either sell in the uncensored version of Xstreet or cover up the detail of their work
* [10:19] JubJub Forder: if anything proving Lindens don't get favourtism...from their server people
* [10:19] Ann Otoole: lmao
* [10:19] Sassy Romano: how does LL expect businesses/colleges etc to run with interruptions like that?
* [10:19] Ann Otoole: nothing escapes the restart dozer
* [10:19] Xugu Madison: I'll go make dinner, see you in 10 :-D
* [10:19] Tessa Derryth: they're changing it into an adult region
* [10:19] Colossus Linden: Some shoppers are unaware that the uncensored site exists or that the categories which are strictly adult exist.
* [10:19] Ghosty Kips: right, back in 10
* [10:19] Pink Linden: Sassy, that's a great question.
* [10:19] Colossus Linden: that was 7
* [10:19] Twistit Saiman: lol
* [10:20] Rachel Darling: perhaps a recap when we get back, Colossus?
* [10:20] Couldbe Yue: I suggest you copy them into a notecard while we're gone and repaste when we get back Colussus
* [10:20] Second Life: Your region will restart in 3 minutes and 0 seconds for maintenance.
* [10:20] Yoshi Zhangsun: Colossus shh lol im getting confused with restart talk
* [10:20] Flip Monday: LMAO
* [10:20] Colossus Linden: So, those 7 are the list that I have. Yes, let me paste them all back in at once.
* [10:20] Pink Linden: I think his chat was lagged.
* [10:20] Twistit Saiman: hehe
* [10:20] Twistit Saiman: you think?
* [10:20] Twistit Saiman: grins
* [10:20] Rachel Darling: right; back in 10
* [10:20] Couldbe Yue: just a normal day on the grid
* [10:20] Allie Ree: he actually said that all back before number 2
* [10:20] Pink Linden: we'll see you back here at 10:25
* [10:20] Twistit Saiman: okie, seeya in a few 
* [10:21] Allie Ree: see you all in a few!
* [10:21] Couldbe Yue: this is your first restart Pink??
* [10:21] Couldbe Yue: grins
* [10:21] Teleport completed: from 
* [10:21] Connecting to: in-world Voice Chat...
* [10:21] Connected undefined: 
* [10:29] Teleport completed: from 
* [10:29] The region: you have entered is running a different simulator version. Click this message for details.
* [10:29] Connecting to: in-world Voice Chat...
* [10:29] Connected undefined: 
* [10:30] [[User:[PM undefined|[PM undefined]]: 
* [10:30] Pink Linden: welome back
* [10:30] Pink Linden: hi CPU
* [10:30] Pink Linden: hi ziki
* [10:30] CPU Core: hello :)
* [10:30] Ziki Questi: hi there pink
* [10:31] Meta Linden: Welcome back folks. Thanks for your patience. :)
* [10:31] Pink Linden: we will reschedule this office hours
* [10:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: youre quick on grabbing that spot pink heh
* [10:31] Pink Linden: I love my spot Yoshi
* [10:31] Pink Linden: not many chairs accomodate Tinies!
* [10:31] Rachel Darling: someone stole Colossus' spot
* [10:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: i tried to make a tiny pose this week
* [10:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: dont get much movement :O
* [10:31] Rachel Darling: any hint for an Xstreet product, Pink?
* [10:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: was making coffins lol
* [10:32] Rachel Darling: tiny coffins...that's a bit morbid
* [10:32] Pink Linden: do you folks want Colossus to repost the stuff he had?
* [10:32] Yoshi Zhangsun: for a morbid sim
* [10:32] Allie Ree: yes
* [10:32] Yoshi Zhangsun: :P
* [10:32] Rachel Darling: recap would be nice in one post if possible
* [10:32] Allie Ree: please
* [10:32] Ghosty Kips: yes plz
* [10:32] Twistit Saiman: Yes Pink, but one sec tho.. till everybody is back here
* [10:32] Twistit Saiman: hehe
* [10:32] Pink Linden: Hi Abraxxa
* [10:33] Twistit Saiman: smiles
* [10:33] Abraxxa Anatine: heya pink :)
* [10:33] CPU Core: Qie Niango isnt back
* [10:33] Rachel Darling: I think I'm in pre-crash mode atm
* [10:34] Cherry Blossom: Tree : Falling Blossoms ON
* [10:34] Pink Linden: Hi Mericatherine
* [10:34] Mericatherine Quinnell: hello pink
* [10:35] Yoshi Zhangsun: so what was with the hypotheticals this week pink? a late halloween scare?
* [10:36] Yoshi Zhangsun: i was starting to feel pretty comfortable with xstreet again ...lol
* [10:36] JubJub Forder: lol
* [10:36] Pink Linden: Colossus is logging in as we speak
* [10:36] Ghosty Kips: well my sales have been up this week so Im in a better mood >.<
* [10:36] Pink Linden: glad to hear it Ghosty
* [10:36] Flip Monday: well dodged
* [10:36] JubJub Forder: reckon
* [10:36] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah my sales and traffic have been up not just on xmas items so well done there
* [10:37] Yoshi Zhangsun: but that survey....eeek
* [10:37] Pink Linden: thanks Yoshi, there are many more people on xStreet SL than a year ago
* [10:37] Rachel Darling: I'm a bit frustrated with it actually; problem with a featured listing :-/
* [10:37] Yoshi Zhangsun: way to blow the confidence !
* [10:37] Alexxa Despres: confidence?
* [10:37] Pink Linden: No one should panic about the survey....we really are a very long way away from taking any action
* [10:37] Alexxa Despres: they selling that nw? ;-P
* [10:37] Alexxa Despres: now*
* [10:37] Allie Ree: survey?
* [10:37] Pink Linden: Alphaville captured it nicely, if we ask in advance we scare people, if we wait too long we aren't asking for input
* [10:37] Colossus Linden: Hello all
* [10:37] Rachel Darling: indeed
* [10:37] Colossus Linden: Sorry for the dealy
* [10:38] Colossus Linden: delay
* [10:38] Twistit Saiman: Wb Colossus 
* [10:38] Pink Linden: Hi Colossus
* [10:38] Xugu Madison: Yeah, a lot of people seemed to respond to the survey as "Oh no, they're going to rethink how we do business and everything pre-existing will go away"
* [10:38] Yoshi Zhangsun: well id like to see more improvements before anything major like tat
* [10:38] Pink Linden: can you please repost the agenda?
* [10:38] Yoshi Zhangsun: though im sure youre working on t right?
* [10:38] Ghosty Kips: Hi Col, now get off my lap :o)
* [10:38] Allie Ree: welcome back Colossus
* [10:38] Ghosty Kips: haha
* [10:38] Pink Linden: Yoshi, we are working on improvements as we speak, this is for something after that
* [10:38] Flip Monday: well people are concerned regardless of reassurances...track records do that
* [10:38] Pink Linden: and as we plan, we need to keep the future in mind. but we need to go back to topic
* [10:38] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah
* [10:39] Pink Linden: so Take it away Colossus
* [10:39] Yoshi Zhangsun: well, just keep in mind merchants like to plan too....
* [10:39] Rachel Darling: sorry; are we extending the hour now because of the restart and delay?
* [10:39] JubJub Forder: recap 'issues'? i can copy paste if ya want
* [10:39] Colossus Linden: Alright Folks, we've lost a little time, but let's hop back in
* [10:39] Colossus Linden: Issue recap:
* [10:39] Colossus Linden: 1. Current Xstreet Adult Listing Policies only consider the content of the listing, but not the actual purpose of the item the listing represents
* 2. Shoppers who are not interested in mature or adult content are confronted with mature images and listings for goods intended for adult purposes
* 3. Business shoppers are confronted with non work-safe listings
* 4. Shoppers interested in explicit or adult goods must sift through non-adult listings to find what they want.
* 5. Merchants who wish to advertise only to shoppers shopping for explicit content can not.
* 6. Merchants selling skins must either sell in the uncensored version of Xstreet or cover up the detail of their work
* 7. Some shoppers are unaware that the uncensored site exists or that the categories which are strictly adult exist.
* [10:39] Pink Linden: we're going to stay past 11 to make up the time folks
* [10:39] Pink Linden: so relax and enjoy
* [10:39] Rachel Darling: nods, thanking you
* [10:40] Yoshi Zhangsun: thats's a whole lotta issues
* [10:40] Flip Monday: re: 3 is business a new category now? PG Mature Adult Business?
* [10:40] Colossus Linden: So, now it would be great to hear what you all think. I can answer any questions you have on these issues. And I'd love to hear what other issues are out there.
* [10:40] Sassy Romano: 8. There is no point paying for an enhanced listing for an adult product (discuss) ;)
* [10:40] JubJub Forder: 2 and 3 are same issue really... easily solved by a single signin retaining global preferences and Ann's jira 
* 
* http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1228.
* [10:40] JubJub Forder: 4. Is a non valid problem... everyone has to sift through many listings to find what they want.
* [10:41] Yoshi Zhangsun: there was always mature on slx so it didnt affect me as much as the inworld changes did. the only thin i dont do know which i did prviously is advertise adult goods on featured with you
* [10:41] Colossus Linden: Hey Flip, business is an area where we really need a good solution. It may not be a separate rating, but Business & Education are good use cases to test and see if we have a workable solution
* [10:41] Rachel Darling: I agree; I don't see 4 as an issue, or a resolvable one with a satisfactory answer
* [10:41] Couldbe Yue: 4 is an extremely valid problem. assuming you have any standards
* [10:41] Ann Otoole: Tie account verified status to XStreetsl.com for access to adult content
* [10:41] JubJub Forder: 4. Is a non valid problem... everyone has to sift through many listings to find what they want.
* [10:41] Colossus Linden: Thanks Sassy. Adult Item Listing Enhancements
* [10:41] Flip Monday: but how are they different from the searches applied by ordinary ratings?
* [10:42] Couldbe Yue: Jubjub. do you sell adult content?
* [10:42] Couldbe Yue: if not then you have no idea of the impact
* [10:42] Flip Monday: do business view adult stuff through different glasses?
* [10:42] Ann Otoole: Make xstreetsl.com have the same functionality as the viewer. PG, Mature, Adult. Not account verified? no access to adult content on xstreet either.
* [10:42] Sassy Romano: agrees with Couldbe
* [10:42] JubJub Forder: i will be yes..skin shop going up today
* [10:42] Rachel Darling: some items could be considered both mature and not-mature, frankly, depending on what it is. I'd have to list twice
* [10:42] Colossus Linden: Hey JubJub, you raise a good point.
* [10:42] Dimitrio Lewis: Could pictures have a maturity rating so skins can be listed as PG but have additional Mature images available to those who are logged into uncensored?
* [10:42] JubJub Forder: 6 Same issue as inworld... either sell on adult land or cover up detail. An added category for SFW (Safe For Work) skins could be added - 
* 
* you seem to be able to add multiple categories at will (halloween, winterfest, etc)
* [10:42] Yoshi Zhangsun: the skin thing and thewhole show a little nipple get sent to adult makes me laugh
* [10:43] Colossus Linden: Part of the problem are the storing of preferences or giving a user the tools to view what they want. The other half of the problem are polices that enable merchants to properly classify goods for the system we design.
* [10:43] Pink Linden: folks, let's focus on the issues first
* [10:43] Pink Linden: and not jump to solutions until all the issues are heard and understood
* [10:43] Yoshi Zhangsun: afterall its pg not disney?
* [10:43] Pink Linden: there will be time to discuss solutions
* [10:43] Twistit Saiman: *chuckles at Yoshi* yup, but not everyone sees it that way.
* [10:43] Ann Otoole: LL pG is actually G or good for 4 year olds. according to the MPAA guidelines anyway.
* [10:44] Pink Linden: what issues are missing from that list?
* [10:44] Rachel Darling: yes, I think the "definition" of mature is something that is at issue, though.
* [10:44] Allie Ree: work safe is a little odd, if i were an employer and saw someone shopping on XStreet their job would be pretty unsafe, regardless of what they were viewing
* [10:44] Colossus Linden: Hey Flip, a lot of business users won't or can't use a product where mature items pop up.
* [10:44] Yoshi Zhangsun: well body parts in particular are something evry newbie needs...but no everynewbie is goig to cick to adult. so surely you can see many lost sales there
* [10:45] Pink Linden: and to be clear, we want to also enable the adult business as well
* [10:45] JubJub Forder: they have a preference they can set?
* [10:45] Sassy Romano: Yes, the fact that each time they have to choose adult is a killer
* [10:45] Sassy Romano: (mature sorry!)
* [10:45] JubJub Forder: Put an ad on homepage saying "Want to see uncensored content? Get verified!"
* [10:45] Ann Otoole: corporations typically filter SL stuff out anyway since people need to be working. Decade away from actual acceptance in the busines community
* [10:45] Pink Linden: thanks JubJub but again let's stay focused on the issues.
* [10:45] Rachel Darling: per the skin makers or semi-transparent anything that hints at a body part. I've seen stuff that is fine for front pages of newspapers get tagged adult, and the opposite as well...stuff that is definitely sexual in nature not set because it's not the specific crterion
* [10:45] Colossus Linden: Hey Rachel, could you give an example of items that may be both mature and not-mature?
* [10:46] Couldbe Yue: the mature site used to get around 60% of the views of the censored site iirc. what are the current figures?
* [10:46] Twistit Saiman: Yes, but people dont connect adult content to skins for example..
* [10:46] Ghosty Kips: right, there should be a set of prefs each resdient can set for their xstreet experence. and perhaps a pre-set series of prefs for educational or business clients
* [10:46] Yoshi Zhangsun: halloween stuff colossus, is a zombie pet gore or fun!
* [10:46] Rachel Darling: yes; Gorean clothing. The standard applied to "Gorean" is that it's adult. But I do clothing that's not explicit at all
* [10:46] Colossus Linden: Dimitrio. Good suggestion on skins. I'll add it to the solutions sectino.
* [10:46] Rachel Darling: if you made a site, for instance, that's adult...a lot of Goreans would go to the Adult section, even though most of my content isn't explicit at all
* [10:46] Flip Monday: the simple answer would be to list a criteria in a Yes No Format that anyone can hold their product to that would becide on a Yes /No this is Adult / or Not.
* [10:47] Ann Otoole: i think we all got our fill of being mooned on the dashboard so honestly there needs to be some common sense involved. pulling your skirt down and sticking your butt out at the camera is pornographic whether bits show or not.
* [10:47] Yoshi Zhangsun: LOL
* [10:47] Rachel Darling: pauses to agree with Ann wholeheartedly
* [10:47] Pink Linden: has to laugh with Ann
* [10:47] Twistit Saiman: lol
* [10:47] Rachel Darling: does that make sense, Colossus?
* [10:47] Couldbe Yue: I agree with Ann on htat, but these days the amount of trollop clothing I see I just wouldn't even consider accessing the site from a client site
* [10:47] Yoshi Zhangsun: i still try not to use th xstreet domain cause i often find myslf on xstreet.com instead forgetting the sl bit
* [10:48] Flip Monday: ask a Yes No Question
* [10:48] Rachel Darling: I have one outfit that is semi-transparent that's Gorean, the rest are not. Right now one is tagged adult and the rest are not. So people HAVE to enable adult to see all my Gorean outfits
* [10:48] JubJub Forder: new preference? "i don't wanna see risque listings"
* [10:49] Sassy Romano: NO, new preference, "I want to search all content, i'm an adult"
* [10:49] JubJub Forder: agreed
* [10:49] CPU Core: a transparent outfit shouldnt be rated mature.. they might have censored skins :)
* [10:49] Allie Ree: When you log into XStreet, there could be a checkbox, PG or Adult version and direct the viewer that way? Presumably everyone entering the site is agreeing they are of age to begin with. If you want to look at safe images because you have a kid running under your feet you might pick PG, but since you have to log in, why not put the choice of which version you want there?
* [10:49] Yoshi Zhangsun: why dont preferences for maturity stay anymore? they did on the old site
* [10:49] JubJub Forder: default should be SFW only
* [10:49] Couldbe Yue: well I sell items that are less implicity violent than binding someone to a railway track yet I'm considered adult
* [10:49] Colossus Linden: Good Point Rachel, how to classify "Gorean" content has been an issue in the past
* [10:49] Allie Ree: sorry if that is repeating what someone else has said, i'm catching up on this whole thing
* [10:50] Sassy Romano: xstreet has no place in the workplace, I disagree
* [10:50] Rachel Darling: well, Colossus...the books are for sale in any bookstore, and not as Adult content. There's no age restriction on them
* [10:50] Rachel Darling: so while the theme may be considered adult, the largest percentage of content isn't
* [10:51] Yoshi Zhangsun: so did you lindens have anything in mind or givng adut content mor exposure?
* [10:51] Ann Otoole: I think if you want to access adult content you need to be verified. i ran an experiment and people that want to access an adult area went to zindra to prove they had access. why should LL allow some kid to click a button for access?
* [10:51] Yoshi Zhangsun: id like to see a roadmap on that
* [10:51] Allie Ree: there is a lot less sex going on in Gor than in the rest of SL, bit off topic maybe but just a little factiod
* [10:51] Rachel Darling: Ann, the web allows you to just click a button
* [10:51] Pink Linden: sounds like we're ready to move to solutions...unless there are more questions or comments on the issues stated.
* [10:51] Couldbe Yue: and a lot more violence..
* [10:52] Rachel Darling: I've never understood why it's different here, for liability reasons
* [10:52] Couldbe Yue: oh that's right.. violence isn't considered an adult thing is it?
* [10:52] Sassy Romano: May I just clarify the objective of this discussion, is it a) How to keep xstreetsl listing safe from those who don't want adult or b) how to promote adult content on xstreet? I feel there are different agendas, Linden please to clarify...
* [10:52] Rachel Darling: nods in agreement
* [10:52] Ann Otoole: warhol franentein movie is adult violence with weird sex rolled in. hmmm how sl'ish
* [10:53] Colossus Linden: Hey Sassy, great question
* [10:53] Yoshi Zhangsun: depends who likes you on the day its reported couldbe :P
* [10:53] Colossus Linden: I believe it's both
* [10:53] Allie Ree: notes that movie for later.
* [10:53] Colossus Linden: If we solve this right, we should be able to enable both
* [10:53] Rachel Darling: laughs
* [10:53] Colossus Linden: they are two separate use cases though
* [10:53] Yoshi Zhangsun: yes
* [10:53] Colossus Linden: And both have a lot of support
* [10:53] Pink Linden: and both are equally valid to us.
* [10:54] Colossus Linden: So, we've taken a lot of feedback in the short time we've had so far.
* [10:54] Yoshi Zhangsun: atm you lose out, less adult sales, less adult busnesses paying you for featured, skins are a mess
* [10:54] Pink Linden: that's right Yoshi
* [10:54] Sassy Romano: so is it better to have a discussion for each so we don't end up just arguing at odds? I'd rather discuss how to solve each case in turn than discuss which is right or wrong
* [10:54] Yoshi Zhangsun: so needs fixing and quick really, it should be a piority over surveys
* [10:54] Couldbe Yue: My wishlish is pretty simple.. Split the general site into content creation, general and adult. Only allow adult items in adult. Provide better categories and improve the value for money for the homepage ads.. and better still add a most popular for both content creation and afult
* [10:54] Colossus Linden: I've seen the following aded as issues: Gorean Content, not wanting to see risque listings. what does "Mature" really mean. we need preferences that work.
* [10:54] Allie Ree: i'm thinking what Ann said, if i understand it, to have to be verified to access adult items on XStreet, is the way to go forward
* [10:55] Colossus Linden: There have also been a number of comments that are more on the solutions side
* [10:55] Colossus Linden: Sassy, I certainly don't want to argue over what is right or wrong, so we can certainly take that approach
* [10:55] Colossus Linden: This is a pretty large subject
* [10:55] Ann Otoole: one factor that has been put forth consistently is paypal rules. how will that factor in if it is genuine?
* [10:56] Yoshi Zhangsun: the way the halloween showcae was presented was ideal, warning to what content homepage you prefer
* [10:56] Yoshi Zhangsun: but that doesnt makeit work-friendy
* [10:56] Yoshi Zhangsun: so why not use slexchange for workfriendly and xstreet for xxx ;)
* [10:56] JubJub Forder: Xstreet as a public website should be safe for work... a single siginin retaining global preferences, add a 3 step rating on items (PG M and Adult). Having whole categories like Skins classified as Adult is silly..it should be an on-page preference ie only displaying content you prefer or qualify for
* [10:56] Colossus Linden: So, we've had a proposal that there are two major use cases to solve for
* [10:56] Rachel Darling: one other issue at large, I think -- that the "rules" don't seem to be being applied across the board
* [10:56] Couldbe Yue: because LL doesn't own slexchange.com iirc
* [10:56] Colossus Linden: at least on the shopping side :)
* [10:57] Colossus Linden: Sassy, in our other office hours today, I may break this into separate use cases
* [10:58] Hazelee Haller: Avatar shapes, like skins, are automatically classified as adult. Yes, I also have two lines of shapes which are sold in mature sims -- completely PG in nature - and I am forced to sell them in the adult section.
* [10:58] Sassy Romano: thanks, I think that would help
* [10:58] Colossus Linden: I'd like to get into some specific issue areas. The one we are aware has the most issues are skins
* [10:58] Colossus Linden: Do we have any skin creators here who can share their experiences?
* [10:59] CPU Core: ....
* [10:59] Ghosty Kips: maybe not :)
* [10:59] Colossus Linden: Thanks Hazelee
* [10:59] Twistit Saiman: dead silent.. i thought there were.
* [10:59] Rachel Darling: I don't sell skins, but the same issue applies to clothing that shows any transparency
* [10:59] Ann Otoole: i don't know anyone that would buy a skin off xstreet without a demo first so that is an additional factor since the demo is one of those freebies you guys don't want.
* [11:00] Flip Monday: what are you asking Colossus? are fully exposed Skins classed as Adult or Not?
* [11:00] Colossus Linden: fully exposed skins are currently classified as adult
* [11:00] Ann Otoole: what is the paypal rule on nudity?
* [11:00] Allie Ree: agreed, when buying a skin one of the first thing i want to check out are the bits that would be covered
* [11:00] Colossus Linden: by the current polices
* [11:00] Sassy Romano: So... back to how to promote adult content and parity with visibility then instead of partitioning it off *smiles*
* [11:00] Flip Monday: and the issue?
* [11:00] Dimitrio Lewis: Would definately be useful to be able to attach a demo item onto listings
* [11:00] Twistit Saiman: Correct, but thats a diffrent subject Ann Lindens got some idea's on demo's for xstreet now i bet.
* [11:01] Colossus Linden: let's not derail into a conversation on freebies or demos
* [11:01] Twistit Saiman: indeed
* [11:01] CPU Core: skins shouldt be censored.. do people actually look at their own avatar that way?
* [11:01] Pink Linden: demos will be covered in the Freebie blog post coming in <48 hours. 
* [11:01] Rivan Dressler: grumbles at the lack of focus to this meeting...
* [11:02] Couldbe Yue: this is more of a brainstorming session by the look of it Rivan
* [11:02] Ann Otoole: what is the implications of paypal associated with xstreet in respect to nudity? seemed to be the driving force before.
* [11:02] JubJub Forder: why not just have the same classifications as inworld? then base display on each persons preference with default being PG
* [11:02] Pink Linden: Ann, it's a factor. PayPal doesn't allow us to accept payments for mature items.
* [11:02] Colossus Linden: Rivan, we are early in the process here and trying to get feedback early on as opposed to walking in with a plan already baked
* [11:02] Pink Linden: but it's not the driving force behind our thinking.
* [11:02] Rachel Darling: but it's a hard limit, no?
* [11:02] Colossus Linden: Sorry that it's been a bit of a meander with a couple of downtimes :)
* [11:02] Couldbe Yue: yet paypal europe does.. have you checked with paypal lately?
* [11:03] Ann Otoole: so def need a hard line about it then. PG, and mature. then there is adult.
* [11:03] Flip Monday: Agreed Ann, no point in being wishy washy
* [11:03] Rachel Darling: I can't imagine how we'd get resolution with THREE different levels of maturity rating
* [11:03] JubJub Forder: same as inworld
* [11:04] Ann Otoole: there are 3 ratings in world and it is all still internet commerce
* [11:04] Colossus Linden: Rachel, what are the issues regarding having 3 ratings?
* [11:04] Ann Otoole: it is just in mature some don't want to see adult
* [11:04] Colossus Linden: It's certainly something to consider, so I'd like to know what your reservations are
* [11:04] JubJub Forder: whole categories shouldnt be Adult.. individual items should
* [11:04] Sassy Romano: it's not hard... "I can't see anything... I think I can see something... I *CAN* see something"
* [11:04] Allie Ree: with a clear definition of what is adult and what is mature so we know how to classifiy properly. Even in world I feel like I am guessing when I decide what has to be adult and what can be mature.
* [11:04] Rachel Darling: it further fragments the issues you already have, to my mind
* [11:04] Ann Otoole: and people wanting adult don't want all the disney listings
* [11:04] Rachel Darling: and further fragments the results of searches on XStreet
* [11:04] Colossus Linden: JubJub, what about the genetalia category?
* [11:05] Rachel Darling: which is already an issue, based on your list of proposed issues
* [11:05] Sassy Romano: Until you have preferences to keep the choice of content or other verification, there's not much point in listing adult stuff on xstreet (in my opinion)
* [11:05] JubJub Forder: all items in that category should be adults..but not neccesairly the whol category..unless the word genitalia offends
* [11:06] Colossus Linden: valid suggestino JubJub. Thanks
* [11:06] Colossus Linden: So all
* [11:06] Ghosty Kips: well, lets be realistic. 'genetalia' is a fairly generic term. Id not want to se the category named "bits and bobs"
* [11:06] JubJub Forder: classification is the same problem we all face inworld...either err on the side of safety..or risk a complaint
* [11:06] Flip Monday: Display a front and rear elevation of an avatar and mark areas that if shown make the item Adult
* [11:06] Colossus Linden: I had wanted to propose and discuss some areas for solutions, but we are already past 11 PST.
* [11:07] Sassy Romano: Ann already described how to achieve that verification
* [11:07] JubJub Forder: we lost 10 mins
* [11:07] Couldbe Yue: the difference is that passersby don't see what's inworld nor do many people access inworld from the workplace. It puts a completely different slant on what's appropriate and what isn't
* [11:07] Colossus Linden: Are people available to continue talking?
* [11:07] Pink Linden: can folks stay past 11? the Lindens can
* [11:07] Rachel Darling: notes that we lost about 30 minutes due to the restart, overall
* [11:07] Rachel Darling: nods
* [11:07] JubJub Forder: default on the website should be PG
* [11:07] Allie Ree: i can stay
* [11:07] Colossus Linden: Okay, then we'll push on
* [11:08] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah but worth running another too :P
* [11:08] Hazelee Haller: ty
* [11:08] Colossus Linden: Thanks all
* [11:08] Sassy Romano: default first time someone uses it but thereafter it should be saved
* [11:08] Ghosty Kips: i agree, the web site default should be pg - but upon sign in, residents shold be able to set preferences
* [11:08] Allie Ree: being able to save your preferences for adult or pg would be a nice feature
* [11:08] Colossus Linden: So, rather than try to jump to a large list of potential solutions, I think we need to focus on specific issues
* [11:08] JubJub Forder: unless preference set..and it should be the same global preferences as in your viewer
* [11:08] Ghosty Kips: and have them stick - bad enuf we have to re-log in on each visit
* [11:08] Ann Otoole: i like the idea of checkboxes like in the viewer. faster access to desired results
* [11:08] Meta Linden: We do have another session at 4PM for anyone who can't stay, but thank you to everyone who can.
* [11:09] Yoshi Zhangsun: yes colossus that's a good aim, targets you can reach and show us our feedback was listened to
* [11:09] Colossus Linden: I would like to start by focusing on the skin & shape issue.
* [11:09] Sassy Romano: shapes are not adult
* [11:10] Hazelee Haller: Some shapes are adult - I have one line of shapes that definitely belongs in adult.
* [11:10] Ghosty Kips: shapes and skins are two diff products and should be onsidered separately. i see nothing 'adult' about a shape per se
* [11:10] Twistit Saiman: lol yeah.. but depends what skin they are wearing..
* [11:10] Hazelee Haller: But not all shapes are adult.
* [11:10] Sassy Romano: no, without a skin it's a prim
* [11:10] Colossus Linden: Shapes are not forced to be adult
* [11:10] Colossus Linden: okay. Thanks folks
* [11:10] Ann Otoole: and some skins have shapes included so expect whinage there
* [11:10] Colossus Linden: Let's focus on skins to start then, because they have the problem that they are currently strictly adult
* [11:10] Pink Linden: good discussion
* [11:11] Hazelee Haller: I'm sorry, colossus, but when I list shapes, they do go to adult.
* [11:11] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah skins are so important because virtually very avi needs one
* [11:11] Sassy Romano: then put a blank grey skin on them
* [11:11] Yoshi Zhangsun: basics should bequick and easy to gt from xstreet
* [11:11] Ghosty Kips: yes. id like to see them moved to Mature. its silly to expect only age verified peeps to be able to buy skins
* [11:11] Ann Otoole: or a marble statue skin
* [11:11] Sassy Romano: but who buys a skin off xstreet?
* [11:11] Sassy Romano: we're back 20 minutes
* [11:11] Pink Linden: that's my question sassy, aren't skins and shapes typically sold together
* [11:12] Allie Ree: skins have always been under adult content, how anyone would shop for one or buy one without seeing the adult bits?
* [11:12] Rachel Darling: not me. but I shop for potential in-world vendors there sometimes
* [11:12] Pink Linden: that's my understanding but I'm still learning
* [11:12] Yoshi Zhangsun: no theyre not pink lol
* [11:12] Gypsy Paz: how about adding a figleaf overlay system to xstreet images, kinda like how watermarks work
* [11:12] Rachel Darling: and no Pink, they're not
* [11:12] Allie Ree: no
* [11:12] Yoshi Zhangsun: sold with styling cards
* [11:12] Sassy Romano: but nobody buys those off xstreet?
* [11:12] Pink Linden: very interesting, I wonder how that meme got started.....
* [11:12] Ghosty Kips: no, skins are most always sold by themselves
* [11:12] JubJub Forder: not everyone wants a skin for the 'pink' bits (sorry Pink)
* [11:12] Ziki Questi: you can buy them together, pink, and that's often done, but not always by any stretch
* [11:12] Pink Linden: I was told that the way to make sure your avi looks good is to buy the skin from the same place you buy the shape.
* [11:12] Allie Ree: often when a skin and shape are sold together is because soemone is selling a ripped skin and trying to hide it by calling it a shape and bonus skin
* [11:12] Ann Otoole: if you have affinity with a skinner and expect the skins to be good then you probably would be likely to buy off xstreet. valid use case
* [11:13] Rachel Darling: as someone noted, aren't they most often using XStreet to get the demo?
* [11:13] Abraxxa Anatine: many people make their own shape
* [11:13] Pink Linden: "affinity with a skinner" hehe very silence of the lambs
* [11:13] Abraxxa Anatine: and some make shapes but not skins
* [11:13] Ghosty Kips: and if youre good at making your own shapes, you rarely need to buy a shape from the skin creator
* [11:13] Yoshi Zhangsun: well is good to hav a creator whos done both, but go check ut a big shape storelike kmadd
* [11:13] Sassy Romano: and if they're getting a demo, the bits can be blocked out, no issue, that's skins done with ... NEXT
* [11:13] Ann Otoole: sorry. skinner is what we called those guys in the game mod biz
* [11:13] Abraxxa Anatine: has never bought a shape but has a skin addiction so... =)
* [11:14] Colossus Linden: Alright, so back to the adult issue. And thank you all for the lesson.
* [11:14] Yoshi Zhangsun: AFK
* [11:14] Alexxa Despres: Allie...repotable places DO sell skins and shapes together as it gives a more true 'picture' of what you will look like. After all, the shape does IMPACT the skin quite a bit
* [11:14] Ghosty Kips: it wold be interesting to find out what percentage of skins are purchased on xstreet from skin creatrs, that mnay make a big diff in how this is approached
* [11:14] Colossus Linden: Actually, quick clarifying question
* [11:14] Alexxa Despres: reputable*
* [11:14] Rachel Darling: I have to agree with Sassy. If nudity is blocked by Paypal and/or the maturity ratings, then block the bits and let people get demos to see them
* [11:15] Colossus Linden: You have told us that skin shoppers don't necessarily by a shape. Do shape purchasers need to buy a skin?
* [11:15] Sassy Romano: right so skins done... please there were far more issues presented than this single issue that is easily solved
* [11:15] Ghosty Kips: not necessarily
* [11:15] Rachel Darling: if they don't already have them, Colossus. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
* [11:15] Flip Monday: ?
* [11:15] Ann Otoole: shapes and skins are OR not AND
* [11:16] Ghosty Kips: agrees with Ann
* [11:16] Ann Otoole: some include them together. if skin them mature
* [11:16] Sassy Romano: with respect.. .this is HIGHLY single issue centric and an issue that is easily solved. The other issues, how to actively promote adult content is a much wider topic surely?
* [11:16] Hazelee Haller: I sell shapes and included instructions on where I purchased the skin. Buyers can use their own skin, or use the one that I used.
* [11:17] Ann Otoole: shape shown on naked bod = mature. shape shown on ... non nipples non genitals simulation would not be mature
* [11:17] Couldbe Yue: isn't the question here something along the lines of "can a useful picture of a skin or a shape be displayed on the website and still be suitable for work?"
* [11:17] CPU Core: I dont understand why Paypal is an issue.. you only buy L$ with paypal not items
* [11:17] Rachel Darling: not true, CPU; on the non-mature site you can pay in dollars via Paypal
* [11:17] Ghosty Kips: right, so perhap[s a general rule saying the bits have to be hidden on xstreet? then the paypal issue isnt in the way, and the classification can be moved to mature at least?
* [11:17] Sassy Romano: yes... spots on the "bits" work safe, buy the demo... MOVE ON
* [11:18] Colossus Linden: Well, we can still give skin makers the option
* [11:18] CPU Core: i see
* [11:18] Colossus Linden: so, to close up this topic, we've see a few potential solutions
* [11:18] Colossus Linden: 1. skins stay solely adult
* [11:18] Colossus Linden: 2. skins are forced to cover bits & are not adult
* [11:19] Colossus Linden: 3. skin creators can do both 1 & 2
* [11:19] Colossus Linden: 4. Skin creators have the option to do 1 or 2 with any single skin
* [11:19] Allie Ree: 3 seems most reasonable to me
* [11:19] Rachel Darling: a double-listing? is that allowed?
* [11:19] Rachel Darling: I thought it was against the TOS
* [11:19] Colossus Linden: 5. skins (with nudity) should not be in the adult section
* [11:19] Colossus Linden: and 5 may have paypal issues
* [11:19] Ziki Questi: so does that mean they would have to list each product twice, one the "real" thing and one a sanitized version?
* [11:19] Ghosty Kips: 3 is good is a double listing per product type is allowed - if not, I'd opt for #2
* [11:19] Colossus Linden: oh, and 6. have additional adult images with a skin.
* [11:20] JubJub Forder: 6. allow any item to have a pg M or Adult rating and display based on those preferences
* [11:20] Colossus Linden: Rachel, a double listing is not currently allowed, but I like to think outside the box :)
* [11:20] Sassy Romano: 7. Single listing... if adult, show additional adult pictures
* [11:20] Rachel Darling: I'm open to it :-)
* [11:20] Ghosty Kips: id prefer #2, so that skin sellers have the opportunity to sell their work to non-age verified peeps
* [11:21] Sassy Romano: with changes to xstreet, this would achieve every one of those [11:20
* [11:21] Twistit Saiman: afk, food.
* [11:21] Colossus Linden: Alright, we've got some feedback on skins
* [11:22] Colossus Linden: I'd like to cover the 1st issue that I mentioned at the start, as it is an important base required for all of our other decisions.
* [11:22] Allie Ree: what Sassy said works, skin with covered bits Mature or PG, and if you choose to see the addtional pictures, it opens a new window with a verify you want to see this popup, assuming you dont go for the global preferences thing which seems easier
* [11:22] Colossus Linden: And that, is the actual adult policy
* [11:23] Colossus Linden: The current policy covers the images used in a listing & the text used to describe a listing, but does not explicitly cover the content (item) the listing is for
* [11:24] Colossus Linden: What are thoughts regarding items intended for adult use to the adult classification?
* [11:24] Couldbe Yue: defining what is adult has been a contentious issue since march. lol
* [11:24] Colossus Linden: *adding them to the adult classification
* [11:24] Sassy Romano: if I buy a banana, you have no idea what i'm going to use it for ;)
* [11:24] Ghosty Kips: well, some bits are obvious :o)
* [11:24] Sassy Romano: define "intent"
* [11:24] Colossus Linden: haha. True, but some items are scripted for obvious adult use
* [11:24] Ann Otoole: oh you mean like hot sex huds in PG? those are adult entertainment devices and need to be in the adult section end of story
* [11:25] Hazelee Haller: I agree with Ann.
* [11:25] Yoshi Zhangsun: IF there is a HUMAN with halfa brain looking at listings yeah, if its anther converse-ial issue, you best stay away from tat
* [11:25] Rachel Darling: it just gets greyer and greyer....
* [11:25] Pink Linden: or Ann, the patio furniture with "cuddle poses"
* [11:25] Qie Niangao: so, in theory, all of Zindra content could be described clinically enough to fit in the most PG rating.
* [11:25] Colossus Linden: Exactly ann. Or, for instance, I've seen sex beds in the uncensored site
* [11:25] Ann Otoole: i don't see any sybians on the walmart web site
* [11:25] Pink Linden: that upon review are ahem, not what I would call "cuddling" per se
* [11:25] Sassy Romano: but sex beds can be sold on mature land
* [11:25] Pink Linden: but then again I'm an old lady.
* [11:25] Pink Linden: O_o
* [11:25] Colossus Linden: Man, I forgot how much fun this could be :)
* [11:25] Ghosty Kips: lol
* [11:25] Colossus Linden: Okay, so I am not hearing any dissent
* [11:26] Ghosty Kips: well, some items are obvious. genitalia shoudl be adult of course
* [11:26] Rachel Darling: only on how you're going to figure out what the "usage" of an item is
* [11:26] Rachel Darling: which brings back the topic of Gorean
* [11:26] Rachel Darling: or issue of
* [11:26] Rivan Dressler: isnt most of that common sense Rachel?
* [11:26] Hazelee Haller: sex beds are for sex - they are adult. :-)
* [11:26] Colossus Linden: Yes, and that we will not be able to cover in 4 minutes Rachel :)
* [11:26] Sassy Romano: I don't think you'll get much dissent about partitioning off adult content, only that you need to make it accessible in a fair way, if someone has chosen adult, save that preference!
* [11:26] Ann Otoole: but you CANNOT ADVERTISE sex stuff on mature land and that rule seems to apply to SL
* [11:27] moeb Zeplin: hmmm I hate to ask but on the question or breasts.. specifically uncovered or similar
* [11:27] Couldbe Yue: I suggest you just make it that if it's adult it has to be in a magic box on adult land.. and then when you find people offering adult goods that aren't you can easily cut them off
* [11:27] Sassy Romano: sex beds can be sold on mature, Blondin clarified this it's in the blog, end of discussion
* [11:27] Rachel Darling: indeed. But a policy implemented on "adult" intent will be a problem if you don't consider it when you make the policy
* [11:27] Ann Otoole: so it needs to go behind the curtain into the back room at the video store
* [11:27] Rivan Dressler: moeb, I think all uncovered breasts are fine
* [11:27] Rivan Dressler: just sayin
* [11:27] Rivan Dressler: and...adult
* [11:27] Pink Linden: Rachel these are good points
* [11:27] Pink Linden: we will note the use case of Gorean items specifically
* [11:27] Allie Ree: i have some questions as to the intent issue, since VGS stuff is generally suitable for cops and robbers, or kidnappers and victims or playing 007 doing an interogation, what do i do about intent?
* [11:28] Pink Linden: we have Goreans on linden staff
* [11:28] Rivan Dressler: thats a decent idea Couldbe
* [11:28] Pink Linden: I won't out them, but I know some.
* [11:28] Rachel Darling: and similar, thank you
* [11:28] Rachel Darling: laughs at Pink
* [11:28] Pink Linden: O_o
* [11:28] Colossus Linden: What is the biggest or most important issue to each of the merchants here regarding this topic?
* [11:28] Couldbe Yue: Allie, that's a lot like some of my stuff that is now classified as adult inworld
* [11:28] moeb Zeplin: filtering it
* [11:28] Sassy Romano: how to achieve parity in exposure of advertising
* [11:29] Colossus Linden: If you can make one statment (not compoud), what are you most concerned with?
* [11:29] Rachel Darling: sales
* [11:29] Ghosty Kips: id like to avoid the use of playstyle - i.e., Gorean - in these terms. while Goean playstyle may or may not be considered adult, we're not selling Goreans on xstreet :) it's items. so, classfication of items, whether advertised as 'gorean' or not, should be the issue
* [11:29] Couldbe Yue: creating an adult site, getting new categories in and improving returns on homepage listings
* [11:29] Xugu Madison: delivery
* [11:29] Sassy Romano: you can't sell if you don't have the right way of marketing it,
* [11:29] CPU Core: Do you intend to listen to the consumers too and not just the merchants?
* [11:30] Colossus Linden: Marketing adult items came up from a couple of you
* [11:30] Ghosty Kips: right, but simply calling something 'gorean' isn't enough to say it's adult. i mean, whats adult about gorean furry boots?
* [11:30] Hazelee Haller: exposure (no pun intended) -- being classified as "adult" keeps three-fourths of SL residents from ever seeing the product.
* [11:30] Colossus Linden: CPU, we will gladly listen to the consumers and they are welcome at these office hours sessions as well.
* [11:30] Yoshi Zhangsun: yes
* [11:30] Sassy Romano: and are you going to listen to the merchants who WANT to sell adult content and not just those aggrieved because their stuff is being directed to adult and they think it unfair?
* [11:30] Qie Niangao: Yes, as Sassy said: parity of exposure. If somebody has selected adult content, then adult content should be what they see on their dashboard, for example.
* [11:30] Couldbe Yue: fine. if they don't want to see it then fine. as long as they know it's there it's their choice to access it
* [11:30] Pink Linden: absolutely sassy
* [11:30] CPU Core: I doubt most know about it
* [11:31] Colossus Linden: Sassy, for any office hours session, we expect and appreciate getting opposing viewpoints
* [11:31] Ziki Questi: i think sassy has said it well .. to achieve parity in advertising ... and if skins can be double-listed, then some clothing should be too ... we have outfits that are somewhat revealing and have to "cover them up" to get them on the pg part of xstreet, but that doesn't really show the outfit very well to the potential purchaser
* [11:31] Yoshi Zhangsun: my biggest loss with th changs was i could no longer advertise, a biz with no ads...great....
* [11:31] Sassy Romano: then can we have an office hours where we are all pulling in the same direction please? How to promote adult content, not discuss that it's not fair that content is being pushed there?
* [11:31] Pink Linden: nods Yoshi
* [11:31] Colossus Linden: Default view on the dashboard. I'll add that to the list of things to consider
* [11:32] Colossus Linden: Ziki, I'll need to learn more about the clothing you are talking about
* [11:32] Pink Linden: Sassy, we agree that promoting adult content is an issue to consider. we can't wall off adult content not not give those merchants the tools to promote themselves.
* [11:32] Colossus Linden: Please send me some examples if you can
* [11:32] Rachel Darling: I can contribute to that as well, Colossus. I have an example.
* [11:32] Ziki Questi: hehe i'd put it on, but this region is pg... will do, colossus
* [11:32] moeb Zeplin: again I think its a question of filtering. .and an easy area each user can decide what they want to filter or not
* [11:32] Colossus Linden: Thanks Rachel
* [11:32] Hazelee Haller: I'd like to find a way to separate my adult shapes from my Peter Pan shape and be able to list each in the appropriate category.
* [11:33] Pink Linden: thank you everyone for being so patient with the restart today.
* [11:33] Allie Ree: our sales are off about 25% since the adult change over, i dont know if its economy or an effect of verification, i tend to think the economy in general the cause. I dont mind having to list as adult but I do mind not knowing for sure which a product should be. Is my Gorean Hair Pin an adult item?
* [11:33] Rivan Dressler: chuckles at Ziki
* [11:33] Ann Otoole: i pay LL for a 4096 in zindra that is useless because LL will not mandate use of the adult enabled viewer
* [11:33] Colossus Linden: Okay, I'm willing to stay a few more minutes to hear some requests or ideas regarding enabling adult goods merchants to better market and sell to adult consumers
* [11:33] Rivan Dressler: Allie, its a hair pin. common sense.
* [11:33] Ann Otoole: i see nothing changing on that policy of eliminating adult businesses although it is denied lol
* [11:33] Allie Ree: its a gorean hair pin
* [11:33] Colossus Linden: It is an important piece of this whole problem.
* [11:33] moeb Zeplin: don't auto shut off the adult link for starters on age verified accounts
* [11:33] Ann Otoole: so i have a nice griefer free parcel lol
* [11:33] Rivan Dressler: we've already said "gorean" doesnt imply adult content
* [11:34] Allie Ree: and my gorean slave goad, has the word slave in it
* [11:34] Xugu Madison: Have to run, sorry I've barely been here, RL chaos. Thanks for hosting Pink, Collossus, etc.!
* [11:34] Colossus Linden: Hey ann, do you have a large adult business?
* [11:34] Ghosty Kips: well, i think what has to hapen first is a clear and defined policy of what is or is not considered 'adult' on xstreet as far as products themselves are conserned.
* [11:34] Colossus Linden: Moeb, can you explain what you mean by "auto shut of adult link"?
* [11:34] Sassy Romano: the adult policy is clear, it's stated with examples
* [11:35] moeb Zeplin: well I don't have much adult stuff. .but I notice that the access to that is an opt in thing
* [11:35] Ann Otoole: i basically halted anything in that direction collossus. when i saw what your company is doing. land in zindra is a burn. LL needs to just ban adult content if they don';t want it.
* [11:35] moeb Zeplin: I think it should be reversed
* [11:35] moeb Zeplin: more of an opt out thing
* [11:35] Rivan Dressler: I disagree Ann...Im doing fine with my adult stuff.
* [11:35] moeb Zeplin: and I would love to be able to opt out of seeing psion eggs while we're at it
* [11:35] Sassy Romano: lol @ eggs
* [11:35] Ghosty Kips: lol
* [11:35] Hazelee Haller: :-)
* [11:35] Yoshi Zhangsun: lol
* [11:36] Allie Ree: i'd like to opt out of those chickens people are going nuts for
* [11:36] Ghosty Kips: thats right,. i want the no-chickens checkbox
* [11:36] Rivan Dressler: turtles...dont forget the turtles
* [11:36] Yoshi Zhangsun: flicks perfect ancient sion eggs around
* [11:36] Allie Ree: as an aside, is it true its a violation of TOS to make a chicken smashing hammer?
* [11:36] Dimitrio Lewis: can you use -egg in search?
* [11:36] Pink Linden: Moeb we are laughing so hard we can't think
* [11:36] Ann Otoole: i put a sexgen vendor in the store in zindra. that makes a sale from time to time since stroker has his store closed lmao
* [11:36] Colossus Linden: Sorry, time for our new "chicken policies"
* [11:36] CPU Core: Well to me it looks like the way Xstreet is going there will be an opening for another business to take over selling adult items.. nice :)
* [11:37] moeb Zeplin: chuckles.. well ah those eggs are a serious issue
* [11:37] Sassy Romano: I'd happily take a site where there are the 3 categories, saved... I'd gladly deselect all the PG outfits at times
* [11:37] moeb Zeplin: I can't see the real crap for all the eggs
* [11:37] Rivan Dressler: exactly
* [11:37] Colossus Linden: Okay, we clearly still have a lot discuss on this subject
* [11:37] Pink Linden: man I love my job
* [11:37] Colossus Linden: Unfortunately, we are nearing 11:40
* [11:37] Yoshi Zhangsun: some roadmaps with targets colossus
* [11:37] Sassy Romano: I think Colossus, you need to have some focussed sessions on more specifics please
* [11:37] Rivan Dressler: thats almost lunch time Colossus! :P
* [11:37] Yoshi Zhangsun: sort some after the three sessions
* [11:37] Yoshi Zhangsun: so we know thisis going somewhere
* [11:38] Hazelee Haller: TY, Lindens all, for staying with us.
* [11:38] Ann Otoole: don't forget to triage and change the project if need be. it is assigned to xstreet but it was a long time ago so went to web project.
* [11:38] Colossus Linden: mmmm, Lunch
* [11:38] Pink Linden: thanks Ann, Siz can you grab that Jira
* [11:38] Colossus Linden: So, we have two more sessions today for anyone who would like to join us
* [11:38] Allie Ree: i think having preferences to set just like in the viewer and the ability to save them (and verify for adult) would really solve the issue of what to display. The issue of adult by intent is more worrisome and problematic. When will that be discussed again?
* [11:38] Hazelee Haller: Bye, everyone
* [11:38] Pink Linden: and put it into our backlog set?
* [11:38] Allie Ree: i'd like to be sure to be here for that
* [11:38] Colossus Linden: we may get to cover some other areas
* [11:38] Siz Linden: yes - thanks Ann
* [11:39] Ziki Questi: bye all ... colossus, sent you a couple examples
* [11:39] CPU Core: if someone makes an arrangement of fruit that appears like genitals to sell on xstreet would they be PG, mature or adult?
* [11:39] Colossus Linden: Those are at 4pm and 8pm
* [11:39] Ghosty Kips: lol @ fruit
* [11:39] moeb Zeplin: mmm just bad taste in fruit
* [11:39] Colossus Linden: I haven't had a chance to condense feedback from this session
* [11:39] Yoshi Zhangsun: Colossus, i see you still didnt go shopping for skin, maybe you shoud use street and give feedback in forum, show us how it went
* [11:39] Ghosty Kips: 'everybody loves fruit'
* [11:39] Allie Ree: thanks everyone, this is my first Office Hours, i'm glad you were all here for it
* [11:39] Yoshi Zhangsun: if it was easy for an experienced user ornot
* [11:40] Colossus Linden: But, people agree that there are a lot of issues, multiple use cases we need to solve for and that our policies should include the item not just listing content, but that we need to be careful how we define "intent"
* [11:40] Colossus Linden: And we got some specific ideas on skins & learned some things about shapes
* [11:40] Rivan Dressler: Good buy (bye) all. thanks for the time Lindens...
* [11:40] Yoshi Zhangsun: yeah thought before actions is great
* [11:40] JubJub Forder: agreed
* [11:40] Ziki Questi: colossus, aren't there other places you can turn to to see examples of best practices?
* [11:40] Colossus Linden: And after adult policies, we'll cover "chicken & turtle" policies. ... just kidding
* [11:40] Colossus Linden: Thanks everyone for joining us
* [11:40] moeb Zeplin: rats
* [11:40] CPU Core: Are these issues ones that have been forced to deal with by legal action?
* [11:41] moeb Zeplin: smiles
* [11:41] Pink Linden: no CPU
* [11:41] Colossus Linden: We will really need your help as we pull a plan together here.
* [11:41] Qie Niangao: Thanks Pink, Colossus, Meta, Siz
* [11:41] CPU Core: or are you just anticipating actions
* [11:41] Pink Linden: we're trying to get to a better shopping experience
* [11:41] Vista Questi: I like the idea of a completely seperate entity that handles purely adult, content.. it's takes the pressure of LL. but I'm not a business-bunny, so whAT do <I> know> :)
* [11:41] Ghosty Kips: awesome session, cant wait for the next one
* [11:41] CPU Core: hmm
* [11:41] Rachel Darling: I'm curious what LL sees as the big issues, really
* [11:41] Pink Linden: chris posted those issues rachel but he'll do so again
* [11:41] CPU Core: but i think no action would be the best experience :)
* [11:41] Qie Niangao: Okay, that does it: I'm gonna sell Xcite-compatible eggs. Call them Xion eggs. Or maybe Zion, for that super-PG market.
* [11:41] Colossus Linden: 1. Current Xstreet Adult Listing Policies only consider the content of the listing, but not the actual purpose of the item the listing represents
* 2. Shoppers who are not interested in mature or adult content are confronted with mature images and listings for goods intended for adult purposes
* 3. Business shoppers are confronted with non work-safe listings
* 4. Shoppers interested in explicit or adult goods must sift through non-adult listings to find what they want.
* 5. Merchants who wish to advertise only to shoppers shopping for explicit content can not.
* 6. Merchants selling skins must either sell in the uncensored version of Xstreet or cover up the detail of their work
* 7. Some shoppers are unaware that the uncensored site exists or that the categories which are strictly adult exist.
* 8. Adult Item Listing Enhancements
* 9. What is Mature?
* 10. Gorean Content.
* 11. risque listings
* 12. preference storing.
* [11:42] Colossus Linden: I added some that were brought up while we were meeting
* [11:42] Ghosty Kips: ok kids im out. thanks Lindens for the extra time :)
* [11:42] Colossus Linden: Thanks again all.
* [11:42] CPU Core: bye
* [11:42] JubJub Forder: ty all
* [11:42] Siz Linden: thanks everyone
* [11:42] Ziki Questi: thanks everyone :)
* [11:43] Colossus Linden: CPU, the issues I've presented here strictly have to do with improving the shopping & selling experience and are based on feedback from our merchants and shoppers
* [11:43] Pink Linden: talk to you all later! bye for now.
* [11:43] moeb Zeplin: hasta la vista
* [11:43] Rachel Darling: waves
* [11:43] Siz Linden: bye
* [11:43] CPU Core: i know.. you think it will help but it would just create more hoops for people to jump through in the end
* [11:43] Couldbe Yue: Bye Pink
* [11:43] moeb Zeplin: :-)
* [11:43] Colossus Linden: alright all. ciao
* [11:43] CPU Core: cya