140151-f2p-update-economy-and-tradeskills-100915

== Content ==
			
Hey all,
 
I just wanted to pop in and give a quick update. We have heard your feedback and we plan to make the following adjustments soon.
 
·         Removing Runes through the “Destroy” button will no longer cost gold.
·         Gold cost for re-rolling runes will be reduced at all levels and rarities.
·         We are adding a method to extract runes from an item with gold. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
·         Adjustments to repair costs to smooth it out and lessen the burden throughout the gear progression, particularly at the Vet Dungeon to Genetic Archive range.
·         Lowering the cost to use common, uncommon, and rare dyes.
·         Adjustments to Rune Fragment drop rates to increase the acquisition rates.
·         Addition of a vendor that allows the trade-in of lower tier Rune Fragments to gain higher tier Rune Fragments. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
 
 
Thanks again everyone for your feedback!	
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			Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.	
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			Excellleeennnntttt!   Thank you!  Looking forward to these changes.  :)	
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			Huzzah!! \o/	
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			Really glad to hear this.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.
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			Hmmm... Good start, but not enough. Is there nothing in sight for balancing material costs and daily crafting quest rewards?	
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A welcomed retrospective change.. much needed, I guess my un-runed ger will be getting some sweet rune insertion soon …
 
I foresee some changes are a few weeks off, given the stated PTR status… plz tell us we wont be waiting as long for the non PTR changes :)	
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So why should I rune anything until these changes come in?
 
You need to offer something as compensation. Maybe give us back 1 plat per rune in gear, or whatever. I spent 40p runing out gear that I had already spent a ton of cash pre-patch to rune out.
 
That is not okay.	
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Fantastic news!
 
Thanks for listening Carbine!	
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			Thank you!	
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			Great news! Very happy about every point listed. Just in time as well as this whole business had me quite disheartened. I have to echo the sentiments however that this could have been avoided, and that a lot of the damage has already been done. Nevertheless, happy to see the future looks brighter when it comes to gearing up.	
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			Dye costs should have never been increased in the first place, same with runes. Stop trying to force service tokens(aka shop) down our throats. If you want people to pay money, you need to make some cool new stuff, like costumes, mounts, toys etc, not trying to get as much money as possible from everywhere by increasing ingame gold costs.
			
				
	Edited October 10, 2015 by Alepap	
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			Huzzah! Made my night....my guildies will be THRILLED!!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.
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			Thanks a lot! All these changes are really welcome! About the rune fragments trade-in, hopefully we can see it soon, since I've got a lot of unused lower tier rune fragments. :P	
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			You still need to come up with a real purpose for blue rune tokens. Some of us have literally hundreds and they serve next to no purpose.	
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			Good stuff, this pleases me.	
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I agree. I can't say I'm really happy that I had to buy service tokens just so I could jump back in raid without putting myself at a sizable disadvantage.
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·         Adjustments to repair costs to smooth it out and lessen the burden throughout the gear progression, particularly at the Vet Dungeon to Genetic Archive range.
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How about you fix crafting in general, it's totally broken now. I changed one slot on a dungeon craft today and it went to 13% fail chance...What a joke. 13% fail chance with zero overcharge. Seriously who thought that was a great idea.
 
Also, Druid Fervor gadget still has a 0 support power bonus what a joke.
 
The cost of crafting is also out of control 6 gold per wire x5, and then 9 gold per craft, for a junk item. Everything has become a ridiculous gold sink. Crafting should be a boon to the community not drag it down.
 
We told you what was going on during beta and you promised us it would be ok, it's not ok. What you have done to crafting is deplorable, and should be fixed as a top priority issue not just thrust on the back burner to fix group content.
 
(Rant off) Kind of.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
I just wanted to pop in and give a quick update. We have heard your feedback and we plan to make the following adjustments soon.
 
·         Removing Runes through the “Destroy” button will no longer cost gold.
·         Gold cost for re-rolling runes will be reduced at all levels and rarities.
·         We are adding a method to extract runes from an item with gold. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
·         Adjustments to repair costs to smooth it out and lessen the burden throughout the gear progression, particularly at the Vet Dungeon to Genetic Archive range.
·         Lowering the cost to use common, uncommon, and rare dyes.
·         Adjustments to Rune Fragment drop rates to increase the acquisition rates.
·         Addition of a vendor that allows the trade-in of lower tier Rune Fragments to gain higher tier Rune Fragments. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
 
 
Thanks again everyone for your feedback!
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			I am so happy to hear about this! Thank you so much!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
I just wanted to pop in and give a quick update. We have heard your feedback and we plan to make the following adjustments soon.
 
·         Removing Runes through the “Destroy” button will no longer cost gold.
·         Gold cost for re-rolling runes will be reduced at all levels and rarities.
·         We are adding a method to extract runes from an item with gold. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
·         Adjustments to repair costs to smooth it out and lessen the burden throughout the gear progression, particularly at the Vet Dungeon to Genetic Archive range.
·         Lowering the cost to use common, uncommon, and rare dyes.
·         Adjustments to Rune Fragment drop rates to increase the acquisition rates.
·         Addition of a vendor that allows the trade-in of lower tier Rune Fragments to gain higher tier Rune Fragments. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
 
 
Thanks again everyone for your feedback!
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{| class="blockquote"
I agree. I can't say I'm really happy that I had to buy service tokens just so I could jump back in raid without putting myself at a sizable disadvantage.
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			Wow, pretty cool. Not too happy about having to have used my ncoins to purchase service tokens for the high cost atm, but at least you guys are doing good. Thank you devs.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, no one complained about the way runes were on PTR. Whenever I brought it up and referred to it as being slight pay2win I got shot down by everyone. But a week after f2p a bunch of people complained and now they are changing it. You can't blame Carbine for responding to what they are seeing.
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			You may not like the smell of it....but honestly, the smart thing would to do would have been to hold off on paying the high costs. There was a pretty large outcry about the high costs, and it wasn't that unexpected that it would be at least addressed in some form.	
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			#Plans_for_drop_7 Kappa	
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			This does reek. Carbine was fully aware that these costs were too severe. They got their money out of everyone that was willing to pay for service tokens to deal with the ridiculous rates. Extremely disappointed by the whole handling of this rune transition for veteran players.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You may not like the smell of it....but honestly, the smart thing would to do would have been to hold off on paying the high costs. There was a pretty large outcry about the high costs, and it wasn't that unexpected that it would be at least addressed in some form.
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			 This must be one of those times where laziness pays off..  for the players who didn't care to be bothered by re runeing their gear. Its to bad that its gold sinked the hell out of the players that needed it.. kinda feels like a slap in the face even though carbine is doing the right thing by this change. hopefully we see it this year before the next drop.	
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In short term step in right direction, in long not so much.
 
This game have no gold issues right now, only reason some may have gold problems is that you have to rune your whole gear at once. With normal "progression type" acquiring of loot, you would have 1 item to rune every week at very best (well sometimes you may get lucky and have 2), nowhere near current 7 in 1 day.
 
Also putting runes to gear was as expensive before patch, as it is now (at least BIS runes). Re-rolling slots 2-3plat *5 = 10-15plat, exceptional runes 2-7 plat each *7 and ofc you could still end up with not optimal slots, I am sure for 10-15 plat you can have optimal slots now, sure before patch you didn't have only exceptional runes, but initially FB of AP/CHC was at 10+plat/each and you needed 10 of those (well ~8 would be fine I guess).
So before patch costs 11*10pl+4(gadget)=114pl - rerolling + 16*5=80pl - exceptional runes + 61*1=61 - normal BIS runes (could be a bit lower higher, but most likely first one) + ~10-15pl to unlock slots (gold unlocks+modules) - summing it up 265+pl. With current system we have ~15pl to have BIS slots on item (previously it was not always BIS) *7 =105pl up to 5pl/1 exceptional rune on AH *31 = 155plat + 4 fusion runes, one is stl/sc for weapon for 10 plat, rest should be about same (cost of production is way higher ~30pl), worst case scenario we have 360pl, but almost everyone is using 1 non-exceptional rune in most/every items worth 0,5pl/each 7*4,5=31,5; 360-31,5=328,5, buying fusion runes for 30pl each is just pure insanity, so lets lower that to mentioned 10 - 328,5-60=268,5 and we are on about same lvl, as before patch and it will only go down (note: I have placed moderately low prices for pre patch calculations).
 
I do not know how much lower new costs will be, but with only true gold sink for repairs AH fees, WS will face huge inflation in the future. We will have (hopefully) 1 new tier of raid every 6m (currently it is closer to every 24m), so that's 180d to farm those 268,5pl + repair costs. Daily repair cost wiping a lot, can go as far as 3pl/day. 180*3=540; 540+268,5=808,5pl; 808,5/180=4,49pl/day - this is how much you have to earn to rune whole set of gear (you may want to add OS, PvP gear etc.). You can get as much as 5plat/h just playing the game (PvP) or ~3-3,5pl/h (PvE) + every random expensive loot on the way (that will get at least +20% to both values). In short only way not to have that gold is playing less than 1h/day outside of raid content, assuming you have to pay the bill of ~8h game play with a lot of wipes - both of those just can not go together. Generally 15-30mins/day would be enough to cover all your spendings.
 
 
Only "good" change is exchange for rune fragments.
With new patch Carbine have reverted whole year of good work in making content more appealing across all the levels. On game release there was no reason to stay online outside of raid hours. Dungs/PvP were not giving nearly as much gold, as they do now. There was no glory currency. PvP was only for PvP if you have liked it and still internal class balance was just broken (in that matter it is just slightly better now), not to mention how PvP gear progression worked. There were no shiphands (expeditions), as they are know today. There were no contracts. Probably some other things I have forgotten.
Ever since drop5 there were a lot activities in game, you wanted to participate with (some introduced with that drop, some between that and game release). You wanted to do contracts every day, because of exceptional rune tokens and it could make you occupied as long as you wanted to (well there were some annoying ones, but still it was worth it). You wanted to do dungs/pvp just to earn gold or corresponding currencies for unlocks (AMPs/ATs) and vanity items. PvP gear progression have been fixed. You can do solo instanced PvE content with shiphands.
With D6 - Contracts are no longer worth it - you still want to do them in spare time or if you are participating in corresponding content, but rewards are just way worse than before, so you no longer want to do them just for their rewards. PvPing for unlocks is also not a thing anymore, as ATs/AMPs drop is so much higher (not saying it is a bad thing, but there is nothing in return). Same goes with glory rewards - nothing new since first implementation... well we have new way to spend glory with salvaging of X89/SD items.
Basically what Carbine did this patch is once again locking whole important content into raids. You want corresponding rune fragments - go to raid (not that you can farm anything, as you have raid lock and spending more time != more runes), you want gear - go to raid. \Everything else is just fast forward content you do once in 1 week and forget about. I have no idea why we don't have fusion runes for different pieces of gear in every content lvl. We have weapon runes in dungs and that's it. We don't have them in adventures, shiphands, BGs, arenas, open world - nowhere...
 
What I would like to see is Fusion runes in all tiers of content (both for PvP and PvE), preferably for every piece of gear (at least the ones that already have runes), with lower droprate, than current one from dungs (from my observations current drop rate is somewhere around 30%, it should be around 5-10%). Rune fragments with even lower droprate, but no iLvL restrictions - you still need corresponding item for given iLvL of rune and you still need set focuses. Rest seem fine for me (at least as far as I can tell with my current experience). Instead of that we will have higher droprate of RF - gating us even more into raid lvl content and making them worthless at the same time, lowering price of changing rune sockets (that will make gold worthless in long term - well I am probably overreacting now, but it will be worth far less than now) and exchange of rune fragments that is good and bad at the same time.	
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			suggestion: make dyeing with shop bought dyes cheap, or free. To encourage us to buy shop bought dyes ^_^	
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			WADAL, I agree that gold sinks are going to be an issue, but these were not the right ones. Charging people to remove runes and random rolls were awful mechanics.	
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We're getting there, slowly.
 
I can't sing your praises for it though, some of those things should never have happened in the first place, especially dye costs.	
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			Personally I think there should be retrospective compensation for those that have spent a fortune spending their plat and buying service tokens......	
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Random rolls are awful yes, but this change won't fix the core of the issue, as the rolls will be as random as ever. Rather than reducing the costs, but keeping it completely random, keep the costs and implement a system to reduce the randomness. Just make it so that you can't reroll the same damn elements over and over.
 
As for the other stuff, nice to see we're getting an option to recover runes with money so we don't have to be completely reliant on service tokens. Looking at the previous costs and at the current token costs for the service I have a feeling though that it's going to end up more expensive than just getting a new rune. I mean removing an exceptional divine rune is 45 tokens. Meanwhile a fixed element reroll is 15. How much are we looking at for the removal in plat then? 5p for an exceptional divine? 7.5p for an exceptional class rune? I hope not.
 
I also agree with Wandal about the lack of stuff to do for raiders outside of raids with the change of contracts. I know it was adressed before (but that thread disappeared damn quick), but I can't stress enough how important it is for raiders to have something to do outside of raids. Something better than farming discoveries for costumes that is, because that won't keep people entertained that long. As it stands there's just very little point for me to log in outside of raids. There's PvP, but that's not for everyone, I can do contracts, but why should I when I get some i80 rewards from it, I can make money, but then I can't buy anything with it, as i120 runes/materials are way too scarce and I can farm discoveries. Yay discoveries. At least I get some more costumes that way! Oh and Scrab pets I can't loot anyway. Free Scrab pets in Crimson Badlands! Pick yours up today!	
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Good to see new changes incoming.
 
Especially lower repair costs.
 
Low level runes to be traded for higher ones
 
And peeps can now use in game gold to extract runes
 
And an increase in rune fragment drop rate
 
Music to my ears.
 
Thnxs for listening
 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.
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{| class="blockquote"
I also agree with Wandal about the lack of stuff to do for raiders outside of raids with the change of contracts.
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Removing Runes through the “Destroy” button will no longer cost gold.
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			Thank you for listening and making these changes, it should make for a more enjoyable game for everyone in the long run. However, in the short term you're going to get some backlash from the early adopters whop paid full price - it's a shame this couldn't have been thrashed out on the PTR before launch. Anyway hopefully the changes can be implemented quickly as I'm sure a lot of people will now be holding back on runes, dyes etc until the changes go live.	
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This change should make contracts more vaulable, once we are able to trade lower rune fragments for higher ones.
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Now what about allowing us to spend our normal rune tokens  for exceptional runes at like a ratio of 5 tokens to 1 exceptional rune or something like that?
 
It was said on a stream that this would be looked into because the refund we got was absolutely pathetic and wouldn't you know what f2p releases nothing has changed. The rune tokens would just be a start to fixing the issue too, since we then had to reroll the rune slots AGAIN, add rune slots AGAIN to gear we already had this done to before the patch. To get back to the same stage of raiding we were forced to spend a lot of currency or real money for service tokens. Why? Because Carbine.	
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What is your definition of "reduced" this time? The first time you "reduced" runing costs on the PTR, prices barely changed. If rerolling drops from 36g to 30g, that will not be good enough. Now it goes down to 5-10g, maybe...
 
And you're still making me re-unlock rune slots on gear that I'd already unlocked pre drop 6, forcing me to spend multiple plat. I continue to believe this is unacceptable.	
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			Thank you, Carbine.	
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{| class="blockquote"
And what do we need those rune fragments for??
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{| class="blockquote"
Reroll Costs are totally fine in my opinion.
Lower Tier Runes are cheap as they should be and pure/divine runes are more expensive to work with, which also makes total sense. 
If the process is too expensive, to difficult it's bad for sure, but making the process to easy, makes the whole thing kinda pointless. I runed 5 different gear sets, 3x ItemLevel 120, 2x Itemlevel 80 and i used no service tokens at all. As soon as i finished a gear set completely, i felt some sort of accomplishment, which wouldn't be the case when the whole system gets trivialized.
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{| class="blockquote"
And what do we need those rune fragments for??
 
I highly doubt any raider, that log in daily, has any trouble finding mats or find any pleasure in farming those.
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			I don't really like the rune trade-in change. Divine and Pure runes are supposed to be raid-restricted for a reason. So unless the trade ratio is very steep (5:1 for every tier upgrade, for instance), considering the increase in drops planned, runeing DS gear will not take raid drops.
			
				
	Edited October 10, 2015 by Jabu Two	
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Heres the deal: wildstar needs to make money. You need to make sure you balance it so that players can rune and stuff without spending real money, but real money makes it a lot easier/quicker/saves you ingame money. So sure, some of these changes are good, and let player experiment with their runes more easily (like the free destroy rune addition). However, I had been toying with the idea of spending say $10 to help rune and rerune my gear. With these changes, I am no longer sure if I will need to spend that money. I will have to wait and see how they price the options.
 
While I would be glad to not have to spend money, at the same time, it is not a good thing if wildstar gets rid of one of its few sources of income!	
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So are you going to reimburse me for the asinine amount of plat I already spent on re-rolling runes?  I spent over 100p on this and went for broke.  You guys really screwed over veteran players with how you handled the economy, and we couldn't provide feedback because you never locked in the prices until we saw them on live. You guys set it up so that at F2P launch we had to make a massive investment to get back to where our characters were at before F2P.  You literally made us pay tons of plat and resources so we could be where we were before your update.
 
I'm normally not one to hop an an entitlement wagon and usually despise it, but it's justified in this case. This week has really burnt me out on the game trying to wrangle resources just so I could get one character back to it's relative power level from pre-Drop 6. You guys said you wanted us to come into Drop 6 at around the same relative power, but you didn't say it was going to cost 50-100p to do so.  Why did we pay the cost for your system update?
 
The argument regarding the cost of rerolls conveniently ignores that fact.  Why as veteran players should we have had to spend several plat per piece of gear to rune over your system changes to reach the same relative power level as we were before your update?  Now I might be able to afford to re-roll runes for my couple alts I really enjoyed playing before this patch, depending on the new costs.  But until then, they're sitting there without runes in their gear, and every time I look at the Auction House or see something cool I could have afforded had it not been for rune re-rolling, I feel a rather large amount of resentment.
 
Before it's inevitably said: Sure, I can make that money back; but a lot of the items I used to make that plat have also lost value due to inflation and the reset of the economy.  And that's also completely irrelevant to why we as veteran players had to pay to get our characters playable, where as they were playable beforehand.  I already paid to expand and re-roll runes before F2P.  Why did I have to pay to do everything over again?
			
				
	Edited October 10, 2015 by Kelzam Duskthorn	
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Really heartening to see a game company listening and reacting to the reasonable issues players have raised.
 
Thumbs-up to Carbine.
 
 
Now, is there any chance we can remove the wholly unnecessary and unjustifiable "cost to craft" that wasn't around before F2P?
 
All The Best	
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			Ohoho... Very good news.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.
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{| class="blockquote"
They need to refund money based on how many times you rerolled a slot. There were times I had bad luck and rerolled a single slot upwards of ten times to get the right rune type. That's ~6 plat out the window for ONE out of my 35 slots. In total I spent roughly 65 plat fixing only two of my main sets of gear. I couldn't even be bothered to touch my offspecs at all, let alone my third chars main set.
 
For people like myself wearing 100% iLVL 120 gear, the costs were insane after the transition.
 
 
Three pieces of 120 across five sets? Oh boy. It's no wonder why you feel opposed to this change, since it didn't hit you in the wallet at all. I have three sets of full 120 pieces, along with 2 more sets of all 116-120. Rerolling just two 120 sets cost me 65 plat. It will cost even more when I put in my GA rune sets soon, since I'll have to remove, reroll, and then rune them again.
 
The problem is that the upper end iLVL players got absolutely gouged by the rune costs. That's on top of all the money spent prior to the F2P transition. I know people that have spent well over 100 plat so far just on rerolls, removals, and adding slots alone. That's excluding the actual cost of the runes themselves. When RNG isn't on your side it is very easy to part with 5-10 plat in a matter of seconds. That's not alright and Carbine needs to compensate people that were hit hardest by this: the veteran raiders that spent the most time and money playing this game to date.
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{| class="blockquote"
Heres the deal: wildstar needs to make money. You need to make sure you balance it so that players can rune and stuff without spending real money, but real money makes it a lot easier/quicker/saves you ingame money. So sure, some of these changes are good, and let player experiment with their runes more easily (like the free destroy rune addition). However, I had been toying with the idea of spending say $10 to help rune and rerune my gear. With these changes, I am no longer sure if I will need to spend that money. I will have to wait and see how they price the options.
 
While I would be glad to not have to spend money, at the same time, it is not a good thing if wildstar gets rid of one of its few sources of income!
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Yep it seems my money was good enough before conversion, but now its not enough.............. more please good Sir, we need more money Scottie (Oops I may have mixed up my quotes there, a possible Trekie slip)
 
 
Edit: Hit a censored word list with a phrase that is not even remotely cupcake worthy... re word 2 words
			
				
	Edited October 11, 2015 by LordJJag	
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			Please also account bound rune tokens instead of character bound.  It's dumb and now my rune mules have all the tokens.  Thanks	
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{| class="blockquote"
Please also account bound rune tokens instead of character bound.  It's dumb and now my rune mules have all the tokens.  Thanks
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{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, no one complained about the way runes were on PTR. Whenever I brought it up and referred to it as being slight pay2win I got shot down by everyone. But a week after f2p a bunch of people complained and now they are changing it. You can't blame Carbine for responding to what they are seeing.
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{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, no one complained about the way runes were on PTR. Whenever I brought it up and referred to it as being slight pay2win I got shot down by everyone. But a week after f2p a bunch of people complained and now they are changing it. You can't blame Carbine for responding to what they are seeing.
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Can you please give concrete dates on these changes so we can plan?
 
I was actively collecting and salvaging items, sorting out gear, prepping to rune out alts. All of this had to stop with this announcement. Now have to stockpile all items, hold off runing alt characters, tell players looking to return that they should wait... just wait... and wait...
 
Please divulge when these things are expected to change. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, no one complained about the way runes were on PTR. Whenever I brought it up and referred to it as being slight pay2win I got shot down by everyone. But a week after f2p a bunch of people complained and now they are changing it. You can't blame Carbine for responding to what they are seeing.
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Since Wildstar launched T8 cooking talent has been unobtainable for dominion due to one of the achievements requiring the exile only recipe algoroc soup. Please fix this while you are at it.
 
 
 
 
 
 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Inorite? How could they possibly have known?  :rolleyes:
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reduce repair cost , finally !!!
V.Dungeon repair cost is killing the game !!! thank god	
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{| class="blockquote"
Since Wildstar launched T8 cooking talent has been unobtainable for dominion due to one of the achievements requiring the exile only recipe algoroc soup. Please fix this while you are at it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Great changes.  Its maddening though that, despite how obviously necessary some of these were from the PTR, they are only coming about after you've extracted your pound of flesh from your veteran players.
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey all,
 
I just wanted to pop in and give a quick update. We have heard your feedback and we plan to make the following adjustments soon.
 
·         Removing Runes through the “Destroy” button will no longer cost gold.
·         Gold cost for re-rolling runes will be reduced at all levels and rarities.
·         We are adding a method to extract runes from an item with gold. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
·         Adjustments to repair costs to smooth it out and lessen the burden throughout the gear progression, particularly at the Vet Dungeon to Genetic Archive range.
·         Lowering the cost to use common, uncommon, and rare dyes.
·         Adjustments to Rune Fragment drop rates to increase the acquisition rates.
·         Addition of a vendor that allows the trade-in of lower tier Rune Fragments to gain higher tier Rune Fragments. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
 
 
Thanks again everyone for your feedback!
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
Besides the changes you stated that required PTR before making to live, I thought all the other wold make it today. Today's patch only lowered dye costs, right?
 
Any info on when rune costs will go down? I spent service tokens before, but now won't do anything before I see the new prices. Already pretty disappointed by the whole thing.
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{| class="blockquote"
Besides the changes you stated that required PTR before making to live, I thought all the other wold make it today. Today's patch only lowered dye costs, right?
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{| class="blockquote"
Wait... it happened? The lowered dye cost? Are you sure?
I still have to pay unreasonable prices to just use the penumbra dye on a whole costume.
Holo-wardrobe is the main reason i play, but at this rate all the money i earn is going into customizing.
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{| class="blockquote"
Not true. They also implemented the lower re-roll costs (which are about half what they were) and destroying a rune is now free.
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			Yeah, it wasn't int he patch notice. Only noticed because a guildy tole me to look :)	
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			18g... it's better, but... bleh.	
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			Are all of these changes still coming or are the ones in the Oct 15 patch the only ones we'll ever see?	
----
			
Where are we though two weeks later and outside of runes crafting is still a broken mess.
 
I think one thing that needs to be added is something that gives a player an idea of what a crafted weapon or armor piece should look like when it is unlocked. How do I compare an ilevel 78 dungeon drop to an ilevellower that has two imbuements on it. it's tough to do.
 
Also, the Ah needs a major overhaul to reflect new item levels and stats.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think one thing that needs to be added is something that gives a player an idea of what a crafted weapon or armor piece should look like when it is unlocked. How do I compare an ilevel 78 dungeon drop to an ilevellower that has two imbuements on it. it's tough to do.
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Presumably if there's enough people asking for prices to go even lower they'll revise them again, but I'm fairly sure these are the changes Meerkat announced.
 
In a different note, dye prices also went down. Now dying a full set at level 50 with Platinum Grey only costs 78 gold! And everything else goes over 1 platinum as usual. Still not a very effective gold sink, if you ask me.	
----
			Haven't had a chance to log in and check the new prices myself, but... that does not sound like a real reduction to dye cost, Carbine. >.>	
----
			I had a thought today, on a solution to both the fragment scarcity issue and the piles of blue rune tokens issue.  Let us salvage runes, and have them drop fragments when we do.  I have 334 rune tokens (on my main, I haven't bothered checking alts) that are essentially useless, and most of the people I know are in a similar situation.  If I could turn that into 334 - 2338 (assuming a 1 - 7 drop range) of the appropriate kind of rune fragment (divine for 120 runes, pure for 100, etc.) it would solve scarcity issues overnight (literally, it would probably take all night to trade in all those tokens and salvage them) and free up tons of bag space.  It would tank the market for a bit, but at this point I don't think that is a bad thing.
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by dinwitt	
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{| class="blockquote"
I had a thought today, on a solution to both the fragment scarcity issue and the piles of blue rune tokens issue.  Let us salvage runes, and have them drop fragments when we do.  I have 334 rune tokens (on my main, I haven't bothered checking alts) that are essentially useless, and most of the people I know are in a similar situation.  If I could turn that into 334 - 2338 (assuming a 1 - 7 drop range) of the appropriate kind of rune fragment (divine for 120 runes, pure for 100, etc.) it would solve scarcity issues overnight (literally, it would probably take all night to trade in all those tokens and salvage them) and free up tons of bag space.  It would tank the market for a bit, but at this point I don't think that is a bad thing.
----
			
Just want to chime in and say that the reduction to dyes where, in my opinion, way to low.
Yes, you want us to buy Service Tokens, but make it a bit less obvious.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Much rather prefer to just have the option to trade my (blue/puple)tokens for the runebags they already made..
The solution to the fragment problem is not to flood the market..
Nerfing the fragments required for exceptional runes, increasing drop rates from salvages and the option to transmute lesser fragments into better ones, thats real solution to the true problems.
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They have made huge mistake creating this system and with PTR changes they are going even further wrong direction.
 
What should be done is making RF drop few times lower across all lvls. We should have only one type of them. GG - ppl can farm their rune fragments for DS gear on dungs/PvP/open world.
 
Instead of that we have - farm more raids. Ups sorry, you have raid lock, maybe next week.
Ohh right we don't even have that, as there is real flood of fragments with PTR changes, making them close to worthless. There actually are limits to how easy gearing up character can be. In good MMO you finish with your char just before next expansion, when you have to start from the beggining. In bad you finish after 1 month and have 5 months to find another MMO, so you leave old behind.	
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{| class="blockquote"
They have made huge mistake creating this system and with PTR changes they are going even further wrong direction.
 
What should be done is making RF drop few times lower across all lvls. We should have only one type of them. GG - ppl can farm their rune fragments for DS gear on dungs/PvP/open world.
 
Instead of that we have - farm more raids. Ups sorry, you have raid lock, maybe next week.
Ohh right we don't even have that, as there is real flood of fragments with PTR changes, making them close to worthless. There actually are limits to how easy gearing up character can be. In good MMO you finish with your char just before next expansion, when you have to start from the beggining. In bad you finish after 1 month and have 5 months to find another MMO, so you leave old behind.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Adjustments to Rune Fragment drop rates to increase the acquisition rates.
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			You get them from the Glory bags now you get 1 or 2 per 500 glory I think it is?
			
				
	Edited October 22, 2015 by Charge	
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{| class="blockquote"
You get them from the Glory bags now you get 1 or 2 per 500 glory I think it is?
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{| class="blockquote"
you got like ~13 for 500 glory on PTR. now i was told its alot less. i havent really had the opportunity to test it myself and with the rumors of it beeing bugged i will rather wait a few more days till i spend my glory (again) for fragments.
1-2 is not much but ok, ~13 seems absurdly high. i would say 3-4 for 500 glory is fair and should reduce the prices in the AH by alot.
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{| class="blockquote"
you got like ~13 for 500 glory on PTR. now i was told its alot less. i havent really had the opportunity to test it myself and with the rumors of it beeing bugged i will rather wait a few more days till i spend my glory (again) for fragments.
1-2 is not much but ok, ~13 seems absurdly high. i would say 3-4 for 500 glory is fair and should reduce the prices in the AH by alot.
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I'm guessing they don't want to make huge changes- but rather small changes until everything is brought in line. But it's a painful process.
 
They need to drop frequently enough that they are more common than the focus, at least. We should be looking for focus to complete our runes, not rune fragments.	
----
			Good to know they introduced those bags, wasn't aware of them. However, 1-2 fragments per 500 glory is not enough. We're drowning in set foci without having the fragments to use them.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
stop beeing a drama queen
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{| class="blockquote"
How is that fair? Do you even realise how many of those you need? You need 420 divine rune fragments to rune your whole gear, just with basic runes. Now imagine you have to rerune your gear, you'll need even more, and then you get class sets and you have to add them, you need even more. And then you rune your alt and offspec on both. Do you realise what kind of amount of plat we are talking about here? Let's say you need 500 divine rune fragments for 1 character and 1 spec. Let's say you want to rune 4 specs(main and off-spec on 2 characters.), with current prices it'd cost you more than 2000 plat. Just to rune your gear with basic runes. Even if you reduce that price 10 times it'll still be as much as 200 plat. And I'm not even talking about set runes. Yeah, completely fine. I'll consider selling my pc so I can afford to rune Keepo.
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{| class="blockquote"
Good to know they introduced those bags, wasn't aware of them. However, 1-2 fragments per 500 glory is not enough. We're drowning in set foci without having the fragments to use them.
----
			Foci in general, except double DS class. But hey, we already started handing out minor DS class for second roles -.-	
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{| class="blockquote"
Farming 1 raid non stop just to gear up for the next one sound like fun Kappa. It shouldn't take nearly as long, so that raiders can have a break, and they can focus on doing other stuff.
 
Current rune price should be lowered to like 1/10 of what it currently is. Because it is ridiculous how much it costs to rune your damn gear.
----
			
Wandal, you are suggesting one solution without considering any alternative nor analyzing its drawbacks. Surely you understand that having only one type of fragment brings other issues around, right?
 
As to the rest, how, exactly, are you saying the prices are inflated. Everything is selling for so cheap, I'd say the prices of everything are severely DEflated. How do you expect it to go down, not up, when mostly everything is barely above vendor price in terms of mats. Maybe you don't mean prices of "everything" are inflated, and instead some specific items?	
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I was not talking about prices in general, but prices of rune fragments (should have make it clearer initially).
After drop ppl were starting with ~0 fragments, most players had 5 or less exceptional rune tokens and every one needed 30-35 runes for new gear. Some players are still struggling to get there and therefore fragments prices are inflated.
Supply over time will not change at all (well relative supply, as I expect many more new players will start raiding DS in following months), at same time demand will plunge - new players will never "make up for the demand gap" after "veterans", as non new player will ever face situation, when she/he needs to rune whole gear at the same time. Joining new guild means progression, when guild can kill 1-2 new bosses every week at very best those bosses will drop gear only for few players from 20-25 man rooster. Well it can be a bit tricky with GA, but for that using superb fragments, that are super easy to obtain, is not that devastating (even on GA you can get 3-4 pieces/week only if you are lucky, nowhere close to current 35, even if we split that on last 4 weeks). 
 
Only issue with having only one group of rune fragments (that I can think of) is that you will end up with farm spots for them, but that is the whole point, to make ppl have something to do outside of raids (probably including some solo content). Only thing Carbine would have to do is adjusting droprate from salvage of different ilvl items, but differences should not be that high.
 
Currently only alternative I have seen is Carbine`s proposal, where you simply get tons of fragments from each tier of content and that system is gating you even more into raids. Well sure they have implemented glory bags for runes, but again glory farm is super boooring and annoying. Only place to farm it semi efficient (except from.... raids) is SSM, where you can farm ~1-1,5k/h or 25-40 RF/h, that is 2-3 runes/h (or ~15h of farm for whole set of gear). It won't even help ppl that have problems right now, as if it would, they wouldn't still have that problem after 4 weeks.
Instead of having choice we have more raids and maybe SSM... Sure there is exchange system, but even with that only reasonable runes you actually CAN farm are superb fragments and you need 120 of them for 1 divine fragment or 1440 for 1 rune and that is completely inefficient.
 
Generally problem is more in - many players doing same things at same time in massive quantity, than with system itself.
Before drop each new item (as long as you were min/maxing) was 30-40 plat to spend (actually it was higher if you had nothing to craft runes) and you had 11 items + gadget, so it was 300-450 plat for whole gear and generally there was nothing to spend plat on, because before you get an item you had plat for 2 items without farming anything....
Currently it is 6pl/rune for the first 26 you can buy from other players, ~70 plat for your GA class set (assuming you get your class runes from guild), up to 150plat for fusion runes (and currently there is no point to go for divine runes, not to mention it can - and probably will - be waaay lower), after that we have ~80plat for DS set when you get your runes. That is in total 456 plat at very worse, you have to add there ~30-40 plat for re-rolling/unlocking slots if you are unlucky, so 500 plat.
Gap equals 50-200 plat with current inflated prices on those fragments. So IMO any drastic changes in droprate will just make every runecrafting material worthless in the future.
			
				
	Edited October 23, 2015 by WANDAL	
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{| class="blockquote"
That is why there should be only one type of rune fragments. One type of them will also force price to go down, as you will farm them anywhere, including mobs on open world, so obviously there will be huge influx of them without changing droprate (and I expect it will be so high it actually would have to be lowered). The current system and proposal on PTR are however gating players to raids only.
 
Also your calculation are just invalid.
Currently prices of everything rune components are inflated, because half of the server did not prepare for F2P at all and suddenly 80% of former game population is re-runing their whole gear completely from the scratch.
Even with that. Who with at least a bit of sanity would buy divine fragments for runes, for 1-1,5pl/each when you need 12 of them (+other stuff) and you can buy ready to use rune from another player for 5-6plat?
Without any changes in 3-4m from now 1 exceptional divine rune would cost 2-3 plat, that is 70-105plat for one set of gear (or 2-3 days of intense farming - for the whole set of gear!).
Also going for MS and OS for an alt is your choice and if you have time to play alt you have time to farm plat... 
Since F2P I have gained over 1k plat with my main being locked for almost half of that time, ohh yes add to that ~500plat I have spent in game already... So for veteran player that kind of spending should not be devastating (not to mention you should have at least 15 exceptional tokens from 1 set of your gear or you were not using optimal runes before patch).
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Being able to trade up runes moves us closer to the "one type of fragment" without motivating DS players to go farm low level spots for runes.
 
As far as the current drop rate- it's going to be MORE of a problem for progression raiders than those who have been raiding. If you assume a GA level drop salvages for 3 rune fragments, for each drop of GA gear a progression guild has, they will have to salvage ~16 more just to rune that one piece. Ouch! Those first few runs into GA where you are working on x-89, how much gear do you think is getting salvaged. And then we the entire raid unlocks four pieces from killing x-89? That is ~1,600 pieces of orange gear that needs to be salvaged just for them to be able to rune their new glory gear.
 
And it makes the exceptional thing a joke, because if you can afford the fragments, you can make the rune exceptional, because the foci drop like candy in comparison to the rune fragments. That right there should tell you that the system is broken.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Runes shouldn't be as expensive as they are. Can you even imagine how much plat you'd need to rune yourself when you start progression? But I do agree that one type of rune fragments would be a better idea. Because one of the issues with current system is that when new raid tier will come, and probably new tier of runes with that, we'll have problems getting fragments. I don't imagine us salvaging gear on progression. And as I said 1000000000 times already, the worst thing is that even the most basic runes are expensive as hell right now. Exceptional runes can be somewhat expensive(well not as much as they are now though.), but not the basic ones.
 
 
 
Before you didn't need that that "best" runeset, because it was barely a difference. Now we don't have a choice, either you go for exceptional runes everywhere, or you are done.\
 
And currently:
Divine rune fragments are 90 gold each and pure 78. You need more or less 4 divine and 1 pure rune in all your pieces, besides one. And 5 pure in the last piece.
That's 6*4*12=288 divine fragments
And 11*10=110 pure fragments
 
So 288*0.90+110*0.78=259.2+85.8=345 plat
Not counting rerolls, slot unlocks, set foci, class foci, signs. And you'd need even more of that to rune your gear with all divine. So 400 plat to rune your gear even with the most basic runes.
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{| class="blockquote"
Also going for MS and OS for an alt is your choice and if you have time to play alt you have time to farm plat... 
Since F2P I have gained over 1k plat with my main being locked for almost half of that time, ohh yes add to that ~500plat I have spent in game already... So for veteran player that kind of spending should not be devastating (not to mention you should have at least 15 exceptional tokens from 1 set of your gear or you were not using optimal runes before patch).
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The thing is in WS you don't "farm gold" you just play the game and gold came along with that. You may play less or more gold efficient content and that is it. Even when wiping on raid you will usually gain gold. Only exception is when you progress on some boss and wipe for few days straight without killing it, but with that - you don't have time to play alt...
 
Except raids (well with proper group it works like that even on raids) ANY in-game activity is 2-5 plat/h + gold you can get from selling stuff, you get in that time. 1h/day in 4 weeks it is 56-140 plat. Changing EQ usually happens every ~6m, so in that time you should have ~360-800 plat playing 1h/day outside of raid content and not selling anything on AH + ofc gold you will "salvage" from raids.	
----
			I know lots of plat starved people who play the game a lot.	
----
			Than either they are lying, selling that plat or role playing.	
----
			I rather think you're seriously overestimating gold gain when you don't optimise your activities for it and are not yet at the weekly Elder Gem cap.	
----
			Elder gem cap... maybe it changes a bit, but it should be done pretty fast. Other than that I doubt I have spend more than 10-15h since game release farming anything for gold, that's not even 5min/day.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Elder gem cap... maybe it changes a bit, but it should be done pretty fast. Other than that I doubt I have spend more than 10-15h since game release farming anything for gold, that's not even 5min/day.
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I don't BG and I generally do alright on plat, but I also recognize that a lot of the things I enjoy in the game naturally give plat.
 
Friends of mine, not so much.	
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{| class="blockquote"
ANY in-game activity is 2-5 plat/h + gold you can get from selling stuff, you get in that time. 1h/day in 4 weeks it is 56-140 plat. Changing EQ usually happens every ~6m, so in that time you should have ~360-800 plat playing 1h/day outside of raid content and not selling anything on AH + ofc gold you will "salvage" from raids.
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On lvl 50, with EG cap, there is no way to get less, than 2pl/h unless you are failing a lot or just farming some useless mobs (and generally if you are farming something in this game you gain less currency, than playing it normally).
Playing 2h/day EG cap should be reached in 2-3 days, so that leaves you with ~16pl/week. Not including plat you should gain during raids, every random loot and 2pl/h is really, really low.
			
				
	Edited October 24, 2015 by WANDAL	
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{| class="blockquote"
Playing 2h/day EG cap should be reached in 2-3 days, so that leaves you with ~16pl/week. Not including plat you should gain during raids, every random loot and 2pl/h is really, really low.
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{| class="blockquote"
On lvl 50, with EG cap, there is no way to get less, than 2pl/h unless you are failing a lot or just farming some useless mobs (and generally if you are farming something in this game you gain less currency, than playing it normally).
Playing 2h/day EG cap should be reached in 2-3 days, so that leaves you with ~16pl/week. Not including plat you should gain during raids, every random loot and 2pl/h is really, really low.
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{| class="blockquote"
On lvl 50, with EG cap, there is no way to get less, than 2pl/h unless you are failing a lot or just farming some useless mobs (and generally if you are farming something in this game you gain less currency, than playing it normally).
Playing 2h/day EG cap should be reached in 2-3 days, so that leaves you with ~16pl/week. Not including plat you should gain during raids, every random loot and 2pl/h is really, really low.
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			IDK I will look carefully after my main will be unlocked, cuz currently I have lost any will to play, if I can not log-in on my main.	
----
			I'd almost guess that you haven't factored in the higher XP-cap for elder gems after f2p. 19 mio XP takes a while. When you reach that, yeah, then you'll make gold quickly. I'm almost tempted to demand an option to disable EG gain - they're so useless and getting the gold directly would be so much better.	
----
			There's also the little problem that a lot of the existing playerbase got nerfed thanks to the crappy implementation of the rune changes. I've heard too many times about characters having trouble reaching Gold medals in Expeditions when before F2P they could do so easily. That's another factor that will slow people over until they recover their relative power levels.	
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 Addition of a vendor that allows the trade-in of lower tier Rune Fragments to gain higher tier Rune Fragments. (This will go to PTR before going to Live)
 
This merchant already exists ?
If so, where to find it ?	
----
			It is on PTR next to rune token exchange bots.	
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{| class="blockquote"
This is just plain BS. It's Saturday, I've had two DS raids (only Water/Logic and Avatus left), probably about half a dozen of dungeons and a bit of open world stuff (so probably ~10h played since reset) and I'm still 10% short of the cap.
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{| class="blockquote"
dunno man i usually reach my EG limit on tuesdays with dungeons/evening raid in DS (mostly 2+ wings) and then every random dungeon you complete is 60g+ in gold + ~2-3 ilvl80s to dust + the glory so overall ~1p/stl in 8-9min. obv a bit longer for other dungeons. obv alot longer if you pug. but just yesterday with an alt i had a 13min stl run and noone in the group had ds gear. there was just no ilvl60 unruned slacker who died all the time so we did everything with 5 people who stayed alive and did their job properly.
i had 78% EG with my alt after a GA run. we did all bosses/challenges.
 
during progression you obv spend more gold than if you have it on farm. Just a tip (im sure you are aware anyway). if you jump off the platforms when the wipe is announced you wont have repair costs. so you only have the pot/bufffood/etc.
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			I usually get it pretty quick. It used to be that a single SSM run would just about get you there. Not sure about after F2P. But yes, I usually cap by Wednesday if I just play the game (but we do a 3 hour GA on Tuesdays and usually get through Convergence, not sure how many EGs that is worth).	
----
			Well, played every evening this past week, and I'm currently sitting one bar away from EG cap.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well, played every evening this past week, and I'm currently sitting one bar away from EG cap.
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			I did the event dailies, farmed the Shade's Eve instance a bunch, ran several shiphands, did contracts, and some dailies. All every day. Can't do vet dungeons because no runes. Seems that's one more catch in WS's catch-22...
			
				
	Edited October 26, 2015 by Naunet	
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			Yeah, I think running vet dungeons caps you very quickly. So that's probably what it was. I originally was thinking that I didn't run many dungeons with my fresh 50, but she got attuned this week so I know she did at least four, and that was probably enough to put her over the top.	
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So we still have a situation where...
 
"I can't afford runes."
 
"Earning plat is easy. Just cap EGs and the plat rolls in."
 
"It takes me all week to cap, leaving me no time to actually earn plat."
 
"Vet dungeons cap your EGs in a couple days."
 
"I can't run vet dungeons until my gear is runed."
 
... @_@	
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Since F2P, I have spent over 20k glory, on glory raid gear, just to dissasemble them for a few measly rune fragments.  I have my GA class rune set, and I can't even craft them, because I need 60 pure fragments, which don't drop, other then from dissmantling GA gear.  This is just STUPID!  The bags, now available, are good in concept.  But 1 fragment a bag maybe 2 if your lucky, is not going to cut it.  One time I got no fragments, but a worthless blue set focus.  If your going to make a commodity that for most people, is destroyed, each time you upgrade gear. That commodity needs to be readily available!
 
http://www.criticaltwenties.in/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Puss-In-Boots-Shrek-4971261.jpeg	
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			PTR has an increased rate of dropping, so I'm holding out on doing too much right at the moment.	
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@Naunet
Well shades eve dung gives you almost 0 EG (compared to time you need to invest). Full run is about 3-5 EGs in ~10-12mins or 15-30 EGs/h.
Event dailies are probably same.
 
Contracts gives you 0 EG + a little bit on the thing you have to do for them (usually not a lot).
Shiphands if I remember correctly, gives you straight gold, rather than EGs.
 
Dailies (Crimson, Northern + SC) should cap you with 1,5-2 days.
 
 
You are simply focusing most of your time on event, that is not designed to cap you and TBH I consider that type of activity as role play.
 
Also you have multiple ways to earn money without any gear.
First is farming mining/relic nodes - boring as hell, but many players started like that on game original release.
Second is PvP - you can easily buy whole blue PvP set, after that it is pretty straight forward - only problem is that you rather want to rune your PvP set first and that will extend time requirement to get runes for PvE set (obviously) - in short if you hate PvP, well...
Third would be doing dailies (on CB, NW, SC maybe BH and Def) - it will be boring in few days, but you want 32k rep for those zones anyway to get your hands on AMPs/ATs unlocks. On top of that you may want to do some shiphand, but if you want to farm gold there, the only answer is infestation :(
 
In addition to above. I can not understand why not try to find group of ppl at your gear lvl, go on voice com with them and try some dung. Sure it will be hard without good gear, but it will be fun, you will get good gear from there and with your problems I guess EG cap will be faster.
I just logged onto my lvl50 slinger, that had nothing except craft/PvP gear before patch. I have 0 runes, season 1,5 prestige weapon (and PvP weapons are not even good for PvE anymore), I am missing 3 items, that were from craft and I am sitting on 1,84k assault power. My first ever silver (with old fashion timer) STL was done with 1,6k AP character, not to mention overall DPS have increased since then and I could easily increase my AP by 0,4-0,6k.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Pardon me, but how in blazes do you get it on the first day of reset? Exactly how many hours do you usually play on this day ?
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{| class="blockquote"
"I can't run vet dungeons until my gear is runed."
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{| class="blockquote"
I will be at EG cap this evening.
I work ~8 hours today, then go home eat/chill/watch a tv series when i get home. do 1-2h of vet dungeons with my guild and then raid 3-4h in DS.
the cap is really easily reachable in vet dungeons if you just rush trough them with raidgear and 4-6x the groupdps the dungeons are designed for. this means you get xp/EG points 4-6x faster than a random pug would + there is no waiting time.
you can add flask of xp for extra 10% if your guild has it unlocked. (i think this is bugged atm and gives too much xp-> gold)
Signature status gives another 25% (i think) to xp so you get there 25% faster and then get 25% more gold if you are at EG cap.
you can get around 90g just finishing stl with silver (rush trough it in 8-9min with 3-4 DS dds and 1 healer or tank) + glory + drops if you have max XP gain. thats > 10p/hour.
1GA run with my twink was 0->78% in 1.5-2h.
 
If you dont have this possibilty farm expeditions with dungeon gear. its the same principle.
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{| class="blockquote"
The rest is pointless as this is not what I asked.
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{| class="blockquote"
So, 4-6 hours. Ok, this is all I wanted to know. Thanks. The rest is pointless as this is not what I asked.
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{| class="blockquote"
yea pardon me for giving advice. stupid me.
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I remain dubious but... perhaps. I don't really want to waste my rune tokens on basic stat runes though. Augh that'she part of my anxiety. xD I saw my healing numbers get reduced by 400-500 points with the patch, so I have a hard time imagining going back to being successful in vet dungeons or GA like I was. I guess it's possible I'm letting my anxiety get the better of me. But I dunno.
 
Wagh.
 
@wandal: I'm no newbie to this game, though I appreciate the advice. With a limited play time, though, things become difficult. My ilvl of gear has outstripped my content access (in mostly i96 and i100 now. xD) even though I used to be able to clear vet dungeons pretty easily. I guess it's just frustrating. Haha. Not sure I'd ever want to spend hours and hours dedicated to farming gold though. Right now most of my income comes from selling vendor decor for marked up prices because people are hilarious. xD	
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			The other thing is that the dungeons are a lot easier than they were if you have > ilvl 80 gear. They are tuned for ilvl 70 gear, so if you have a few pieces from GA, you'll be rocking the place, especially if you know what you are doing.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Indeed. I was not interested in advice, I was interested in the time spent. Sorry for the imprecision or inability to convey that. My objective isn't to change my practices, I neither need to, want to, or even can. My objective was to try and have things make sense, which is far more important.
 
EDIT: and to the poster above, sorry, that was more of a demonstration of shock than a true question. "How in blazes" or "How the *cupcake*" isn't usually how I phrase a question, and it is really just showing off how surprised I was.
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{| class="blockquote"
if you really want to only know the time. if you effectively run dungeons.... max 2h till cap with xp flask.
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{| class="blockquote"
Ok, now I'm confused again. What happened to the 4-6 hour estimate given in the previous post ? Because that timeline sounded perfectly fine and coherent with what I'm seeing, but 2, again, sounds too low.
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			Then something is indeed amiss. 4.6hours is what I am experiencing, and that wouldn't surprise me at all, but if you can get 250 bars of 150 000 experience in 2 hours, this means you are getting 18750000 exp per hour at that rate, which is well above what was doable pre-F2P. Something is not as it should be.	
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Then something is indeed amiss. 4.6hours is what I am experiencing, and that wouldn't surprise me at all, but if you can get 250 bars of 150 000 experience in 2 hours, this means you are getting 18750000 exp per hour at that rate, which is well above what was doable pre-F2P. Something is not as it should be.
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how fast do you clear the dungeons? we pretty much only do STL/KV/SC when we farm glory/gold and on average it takes like 10min/dungeon. 
did you try clearing them with all the xp bonuses?
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I have done my cap in PvP + some contracts/quest in 4-4,5h with char that was not even with guild (so no buffs). My win rate was not even high on PvP, so I would say 100% of cap in 5h is super easy.
 
Edit: ll above with signature and double step verification.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2015 by WANDAL	
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I'm getting curious about what work is going on behind some of these changes that are taking nearly a month to implement.
 
--Using gold to recover a rune. There's already a system to recover a rune with tokens so it doesn't seem like a stretch to use a different currency.
 
--Trading lower fragments for higher fragments. There are already vendors in the game who do trades of one item, or multiple of one item, for another. Again doesn't seem like a stretch to make some more that handle different items.
 
--Increasing fragment drop rates. Add fragments to the reward for doing a random dungeon. Make them a guaranteed fixed drop from bosses. Change the range of fragments dropped from bags. Again it doesn't seem like a lot of technical work is behind it.
 
I don't want to be "that guy" who is not on the development team and thinks that everything is so easy to change and implement but these are blowing my mind and really have me curious. I don't even need the runes -- I just thought these things would be in by now.	
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I'm getting curious about what work is going on behind some of these changes that are taking nearly a month to implement.
 
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In this case it's all about release schedules and testing. 
 
 
All of those items listed above are on PTR and can be viewed and tested there. We've been collecting feedback and thanks to many players, we've also addressed some bugs with salvaging. While we always hope for sooner turnaround rather than later whenever we put something up on PTR, it won't go up until the all clear signal fires.
 
As for the updates that happen before PTR goes up to live; most of those are bug fixes/balance changes associated with our f2p deployment, while PTR contains new systems or riskier changes that we can't put up on the fly without getting feedback.
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In this case it's all about release schedules and testing. 
 
 
All of those items listed above are on PTR and can be viewed and tested there. We've been collecting feedback and thanks to many players, we've also addressed some bugs with salvaging. While we always hope for sooner turnaround rather than later whenever we put something up on PTR, it won't go up until the all clear signal fires.
 
As for the updates that happen before PTR goes up to live; most of those are bug fixes/balance changes associated with our f2p deployment, while PTR contains new systems or riskier changes that we can't put up on the fly without getting feedback.	
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With all due respect (and I love you guys!), this doesn't square with the fusion rune changes you pushed out, out of nowhere. ...
 
Right now it has the feeling that you don't mind pushing out something that will cause a lot of people distress, that no one was asking for, all the while allowing a HUGE issue that affects most players to languish.
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			I'm sorry to barge in, but where can I read about this change to fusion runes?	
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			Yesterday's patch notes.	
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			an easy solution that will reduce the frustration is setting the fusion runes you already had in your gear to the level of the gear. so if you rune it in a DS item its the 120 version. in GA items 100. dungeon items 80.	
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when you level your profession you can later ban certain elements. for example if you want to create tank gear you can ban fire slots.
just because it does not work like in other games ( i neither dislike or like the new crafting system but i liked the old one better ) it is not bad.	
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·         Gold cost for re-rolling runes will be reduced at all levels and rarities.
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Unbounded RNG has to go.
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I basically outlined my thoughts about it here: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/146146-very-badly-priced-rune-removal/&do=findComment&comment=1463445
 
To add, I got a 116 shoulder piece from the probes in DS recently. Was going to rune it up today since it's an okay upgrade on the way to 120 Best-in-slot. Found out it takes 2p25g to unlock the 5th slot and that the I'll have to reroll 3 or 4 rune slots I don't know how many times to make the rune set-up on them acceptable. Can't really use the few service tokens I have cause I'll need those for the otherwise 5 platinum rune removal of my Genetic Archives class set runes at some point... you know what, I guess I just won't use it and instead stick with my current shoulders.
 
You've taken away the joy and fun of upgrading gear for me. I'm not even looking forward to Best-in-slot stuff any more thanks to nickle and diming. Something you said you'd do something about Carbine. Reducing the costs by a pitiful amount and adding in an option to recover runes with 5 platinum was just throwing us a bone so we'd be still. It solved nothing.	
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Not sure if this was already mentioned, but the crafting dailies for each zone have been bugged since Beta.....  You can craft what it asks for, and it doesn't count for your quest.
 
also your built-in quest tracker kills your FPS.	
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			Make sure you're not in a raid group while crafting.
			
				
	Edited November 28, 2015 by Floross	
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{| class="blockquote"
I basically outlined my thoughts about it here: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/146146-very-badly-priced-rune-removal/&do=findComment&comment=1463445
 
To add, I got a 116 shoulder piece from the probes in DS recently. Was going to rune it up today since it's an okay upgrade on the way to 120 Best-in-slot. Found out it takes 2p25g to unlock the 5th slot and that the I'll have to reroll 3 or 4 rune slots I don't know how many times to make the rune set-up on them acceptable. Can't really use the few service tokens I have cause I'll need those for the otherwise 5 platinum rune removal of my Genetic Archives class set runes at some point... you know what, I guess I just won't use it and instead stick with my current shoulders.
 
You've taken away the joy and fun of upgrading gear for me. I'm not even looking forward to Best-in-slot stuff any more thanks to nickle and diming. Something you said you'd do something about Carbine. Reducing the costs by a pitiful amount and adding in an option to recover runes with 5 platinum was just throwing us a bone so we'd be still. It solved nothing.
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You should look forward to your BIS gear dropping because surely you can spend some real dollary doos on rerolling some slots if you don't want to spend the ingame gold? Support the game you enjoy playing, you'd spend more on a few beers or a single meal out.
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No I don't think I will support this business model really. Not directly at least. I don't blame Carbine for switching over to Free to Play since they didn't really have any other option aside from shutting down the game but that doesn't change that the money I used to spend on a subscription gave me access to a full fledged MMO and allowed me to engage in whatever I wanted inside that game, as long as I put the effort in to tackle the challenge ahead. Now this same subscription gives me access to nothing but a few, frankly pathetic, bonuses. Or a mount skin. Effectively my money has incredibly devalued as I don't have full access to everything in the game any more like I used to. Plus I don't want to buy rewards. I want to earn them in game.
 
In any case I accept that this model is in place now and will just deal with that cash shop being there. But I am absolutely not okay with being nickle and dimed when I obtain upgrades from a raid. I have people in my guild who are actually scared of messing up their runing and don't dare to go near it until they've had help figuring out what to go for because of these ridiculous prices. And others like myself who simply don't enjoy receiving higher grade items any more because of the costs involved. Effectively game design is suffering under monetisation as the system currently is purposely making people unhappy with something that's supposed to bring joy.
 
Also I'd like to ask you not to patronise me with inaccurate TLDRs.	
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Dye costs should have never been increased in the first place, same with runes. Stop trying to force service tokens(aka shop) down our throats. If you want people to pay money, you need to make some cool new stuff, like costumes, mounts, toys etc, not trying to get as much money as possible from everywhere by increasing ingame gold costs.
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Well not everyone will agree with what you feel is fair Burning. There's no reason not to respect that. I find paying twenty euros for a costume or a mount utterly outrageous but there are other people who are totally okay with that. So I'm now stuck with a business model that doesn't fit me. That part of the game is free is irrelevant frankly. I want to pay. I want to pay a subscription and have full access to the game without any nickle and diming. But that's no longer an option. Instead I am forced to deal with part of the content being behind a pay wall because it may not be to you, but to me mounts and dyes and what nought are content just as much as any given quest or enemy type. But hey, that's part of the new business model which caters to those that are okay with only having limited access to a game's content regardless of how much they pay. Unless of course they buy everything available, which could fund a regular sub for years.
 
Anyway that's that then. So be it. But on top of that even if I have a signature subscription I am now being confronted with the game trying to get me to buy service tokens one way or another because otherwise I have to deal with vastly inflated dye and runing costs. Costs which clearly have been inflated purely for the sake of pushing people into buying service tokens. Or at least as an omnibit sink. Because even if other games are worse at it, and this is the lesser evil in a way, it still is an evil and I should not just sit here and accept that. I should not just be okay with receiving a new item upgrade and feeling burdened instead of joyful because of the costs associated with it. You may not agree and that is fine but perhaps this helps you understand the frustration, as you mentioned you didn't.	
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I honestly don't understand the frustration here. Wildstar has the single fairest free to play model, especially coming from a sub game. Another game that I consider very fair is rift and you guys wouldn't be able to handle it (earings would cause you to riot, even tho they gave the community an entire expansion for free, one gear slot behind either a time or pay wall would cause you to flip shit). I mean, for *cupcake*s sake, if they can't charge for dyes what CAN they charge for? Star wars the old republic locks you out of dungeons, keeps you from having full access to the *cupcake*ing UI, limits how much you can chat and basically blocks you from the trading post entirely. You don't have access to a giant chunk of the content if you are playing free, you're a second class citizen. Look at Runescape. If you aren't subbed there is about 3/4 of the game blocked off to you and most of the gear plus most of the stats/quests. The list goes on, and yet you guys have the balls to complain. Switching runes is more expensive. Woopty freaking doo! You CAN still do it with in game currency for *cupcake*s sake! There are games out there that would say oh, you want to switch runes? *cupcake*you, give us real life cash. This game has a gold option. Oh, another game that does that? Guild Wars 2, a very fair model. Noone complains and like in Wildstar runes are vitaly important to a build and yet the rune extractor (theonly way to get a rune out guaranteed without destroying the orriginal item) is a gem store item. Can you get it with gold? Yes. But the gold cost is higher than any rune in the game. This game is FREE. All the content is FREE. Yes, I think Bits/coins/tokens etc should be given to Signature players but complaining about this game being pay to win is outrageous. They have to make money and I'd rather pay for dyes then dungeons.  And no, I'm not a free player, I bought the game before F2P.
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The whole point of being happy for getting upgrades is gone with this system.
First you have to remove your old runes, and put them into your new gear, and spend 30 plat along the way, or use 300+ tokens to do the same job. So people say you can grind the omnibits, in a few months. Really, a few months for 1 piece of gear.
The problem is that being a subscriber gives you absolutely nothing usefull in the long run. Sure some more XP along the way, crafting bonus, more gold drps and so on. But in the endgame, that all matters squat.
I rather have them gate off the entire PvE/PVP experience at endgame, in exchange for more a linient rune management. That way I would feel that my 15-20 euro a month would matter.
 
But if that cant happen, then I would like this wishful thought:
 
Removing gear with plat should cost 1plat pr rune at max ilevel.
Half the current ammount of service tokens needed to reroll/remove and otherwise service rune management.
Increase major set token aquisition , to atleast 1 pr. runetoken bag.
 
That would eliminate 90% of that problem of getting new gear, and the problem of runing new characters/alts.
			
				
	Edited January 7, 2016 by Rakii	
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you forgot that you can just buy those tokens for ncoin (real money) which is the main purpose why this system exists. to make money of the game because it did not have enough people to survive pre f2p.
i agree with you but f2p is the reason why we have this endgame system.
overall WS is a great f2p game if you just play it to level to 50 and hop into a dungeon or two and then play something else, maybe start building your house and play some pvp. but if you want to play further you need alot of grinding or RL money to do what you want.	
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overall WS is a great f2p game if you just play it to level to 50 and hop into a dungeon or two and then play something else, maybe start building your house and play some pvp. but if you want to play further you need alot of grinding or RL money to do what you want.
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			I think earlier this week I saw a player either in /zone or /trade selling service tokens for in-game currency. You can save some real world cash cost and buy service tokens that way. Only other way is to grind omnibits and hoard service tokens purchased with those.	
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Tradeskills
Time to take a real look at them and tune them for the new content.
Crafting Tradeskill are outdated.
Must be tuned for RMT and also RMT HM .
 
Cooking is one of  only viable tradeskill for the economy.(Maybe technologist-being a main tradeskill- is surviving too,but the rest=dead)
It should be tuned also for RMT HM.	
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