122120-time-to-derail-the-renown-train

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While it's nice to have a way to gain renown at an extremely fast rate I think it's hurting the game overall
 
With 30-80 people in the renown train at any given time, it takes 30-80 people away from what could be adventures and dungeon groups.
 
I suggest ending the train and adjusting the prices of certain renown items like dyes to a renown cost equal to 2-3 hours of dungeon running or pvping
 
This would then take those 30-80 people and put them into the Dungeon/adventure/pvp queues where they belong	
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Hmmm,
 
I kinda have to agree with the logic here.
I don't know if it's really that drastic as you write it Evade, but I get your point.	
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Is 3 hours worth of my time worth an RNG shot at a black or white dye?  Yes.
Is 50+ hours of my time spent in dungeons / adventures worth an RNG shot at a black or white dye?  Definitely not.
 
Sorry, but those 30-80 people doing the renown train ( on average more like 25-40) wouldn't be in those dungeons / adventures anyway.  They'd probably either 1. be logged off or 2. running a premade group, anyway.
 
What you'll see if you indirectly remove the renown train is a decrease in concurrent activity, that's it!	
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			Offers to distract the train driver while the Chua load all the science gifts onto the train.	
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So, I guess you got enough renown to get your Ability and Amp point now?
 
This post feels a bit disingenuous as you were forming the group on the first couple of days.	
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Yeah it upsets me all these people that want it ended because a bunch of people already have farmed their ability points while people who come later will be so behind.
 
If they nerf this farming they need to reduce renown costs for items SEVERELY.	
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			Not done the renown train but more agree that it should not be needed to earn the renown needed. What is likely to happen is renown costs will go up or renown earning will get nerfed - making those not on the train have even less and the train seem to be the only way to go.	
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And you couldn't post this in the huge 7 page thread about renown gains why?....
 
From my experience, the renown trains have been fun, are put together by leaders and have a nice bit of chit chat, afk'ers are kicked and people end up getting bored then split into smaller groups and do activities with each other. No harm in that, at all :)
 
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So, I guess you got enough renown to get your Ability and Amp point now?This post feels a bit disingenuous as you were forming the group on the first couple of days.
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Is 3 hours worth of my time worth an RNG shot at a black or white dye?  Yes.
Is 50+ hours of my time spent in dungeons / adventures worth an RNG shot at a black or white dye?  Definitely not.
 
Sorry, but those 30-80 people doing the renown train ( on average more like 25-40) wouldn't be in those dungeons / adventures anyway.  They'd probably either 1. be logged off or 2. running a premade group, anyway.
 
What you'll see if you indirectly remove the renown train is a decrease in concurrent activity, that's it!
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So, I guess you got enough renown to get your Ability and Amp point now?
 
This post feels a bit disingenuous as you were forming the group on the first couple of days.
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Plus, is this true? If you were farming the renown yourself then you shouldn't now change your mind now you've got bored of it/got all that you need. 
 
I find it nice to see the community band together to farm renown. If they were to nerf it, maybe the gains in large groups in the open world (say 10+ in a group, reduce the renown gained), otherwise noty. 
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If you read my post, you would see along with ending the renown train, I suggest adjusting the renown cost of those dyes/ability and amp points to equal 3 hours worth of renown gained in BGs/Arena/Dungeons/Adventures/Raiding
 
 
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And you couldn't post this in the huge 7 page thread about renown gains why?....
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			 Renown, is something i barely see. I can only play for a couple of hrs 3-4 times a week. Which is not much time to team up and get any renown reward. :(	
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You would rather spend 3 hours in a renown train then 3 hours doing actual content like pvp or pve? Because this post is suggesting you either a) prefer the renown train or b )didn't actually read my post
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How are people making 150-200K an hour on these, is what I'm wondering.  I know there's guild buff, flask, and the rune set, but they do 8%, 8%, and (max set)6% respectively.
 
All I'm working with is the 2% 2step buff, I made about 170K in around 2.5-3 hours.	
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How are people making 150-200K an hour on these, is what I'm wondering.  I know there's guild buff, flask, and the rune set, but they do 8%, 8%, and (max set)6% respectively.
 
All I'm working with is the 2% 2step buff, I made about 170K in around 2.5-3 hours.
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I'm divided on this issue, mostly because I think it straddles a fine line.
 
Should people be able to go out in a big group and just beat the crap out of stuff?  Yeah, and they should be rewarded somehow for it.  I mean, it's a convoy of people in the open world, that is what people wanted.  But should it be gaining renown at such a prodigious rate?  Maybe not; it probably shouldn't be the fastest way to earn renown.  I'm not sure if that means dungeon renown needs to rise or this needs to be nerfed, but it shouldn't be removed.
 
Then again, this also assumes people aren't afking and just soaking up renown.  That should go away.  But it is always good to have people in large groups chatting and playing the game.
 
I'm not sure about the technique.  In the broad strokes, there's nothing wrong with it, it just seems fairly easily exploitable and seems to generate renown a touch too quickly.  I can't deny that it does do what people wanted a lot of content to do, though, put bodies in the open world.  If only people were running through Celestion and Algoroc doing it.	
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It does seem to me it's taking players away from other parts of the game. Mostly, I'mt just tired of seeing it in LFG all the time.
 
It seems broken, but whatever.	
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Sorry, but those 30-80 people doing the renown train ( on average more like 25-40) wouldn't be in those dungeons / adventures anyway.  They'd probably either 1. be logged off or 2. running a premade group, anyway.
 
What you'll see if you indirectly remove the renown train is a decrease in concurrent activity, that's it!
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			I haven't seen anyone mentioning it, and maybe I'm breaking some kind of unwritten/unspoken rule about not saying anything about it, but if you're with guildies it seems you make quite a bit of guild influence too.  Now granted, my guild is a tiny a family guild, and it was just two members together last night for a couple of hours, I haven't been in a bigger guild yet to know what is a good amount of influence to be making in that amount of time, but we made almost 100K influence.  It may not seem much to you guys, but being a small guild(without the influence perk yet) it seemed like a good chunk to make.  I could be wrong though :P	
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You keep saying this, and it may be true for YOU, but for many people I know who've done the renown train, it was just something to do while they were on. Before the invention of the train, these same people were the ones creating R-12, SW, Failtree, and Gargantua groups when they were needed. They were people in the queue for PVP while doing their dailies for cash. They were people who jumped at the chance to help someone through adventures for attunement when they asked.
 
My question is, once the forerunners get their fancy dyes and their one-time use abilities, how willing are they going to be to help the people that follow them? How bored are they going to get when there's nothing left to chase, because they took a short-cut to renown town instead of participating in the game and acquiring it in the pace intended? How long before they stop logging in, because there's "nothing left to do" outside of raiding?
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How are people making 150-200K an hour on these, is what I'm wondering. I know there's guild buff, flask, and the rune set, but they do 8%, 8%, and (max set)6% respectively.
 
All I'm working with is the 2% 2step buff, I made about 170K in around 2.5-3 hours.
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Hopefully they won't, because I know plenty of people who are only in Wildstar for the renown train, because they'd rather play another game if they're forced to sit in more pbgs, dungeons, or adventures.
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Thanks for proving my point
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The point that people wouldn't even log in if the rewards weren't achievable in a reasonable amount of time?  You might not have a job, significant other, responsibilities, or other hobbies, but some of us do, and can't be arsed to grind something we don't want to do just to reach level 50.
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My point is that once these people hit their personal renown cap, they'll just stop logging in because there's "nothing" left to do. I do hope they rebalance the rewards, because I think the current prices for the super rare dyes and the amp/ability points are much too high and need to be balanced in regards to amount of time spent doing actual group activities (not forming a group and doing solo things en masse). I mean, how long does it take in actual play time to get enough rep for CB/NW points? How about how much time it takes to earn 400 EG? Then the amount of renown needed for amp/ability points should be about the same amount of time, on average. They have this information, I'm sure. The amp/ability point renown prices are completely off compared to the other means of acquiring them.
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How are people making 150-200K an hour on these, is what I'm wondering.  I know there's guild buff, flask, and the rune set, but they do 8%, 8%, and (max set)6% respectively.
 
All I'm working with is the 2% 2step buff, I made about 170K in around 2.5-3 hours.
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I made about 150k in an hour with the guild buff going, 38 people in the group, the 2-step buff, and a renown flask.
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You and Old Man Tek often look at this game from the point of view of someone who plays for something to do.
 
I just want you to take a minute and look at it from the perspective of someone with limited time, and has to make choices with what they want to do, when they can play.
 
I think that once you start looking at it from that perspective, you'll start to see things from the viewpoint of the vast majority, and you'll start to understand why people would rather log into H1Z1 and play that game instead of grind dungeons for an ability point.
 
People like you need GW2 Legendary quest lines, or FFXIV artifact weapons.
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Yes, we do, and WildStar has that, thankfully. And people like you need to realize that you don't have time for these games anymore. Consoles house a plethora of ADD games just for your type. You're supposed to manage your own time, not demand Carbine does it for you, that's just ludicrous. If I don't have time to go see my friends across-state then I don't go see them; I don't get angry at them for living so far away. You should probably adjust to your own life before asking others to.
 
Also, it's kinda funny that I got singled out in this thread as all I've said was, "Mentoring somone gives another bonus." Granted, I know my usual attitude, so w/e.
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I don't agree with your stance that you can take the law into your own hands as such because you think something is a failure.
 
AMP/Ability points are part of the game whether you like it or not and it's not for you to say "they're a ballache to get so I'll push whatever boundaries I can".
 
That's just you trying to justify your actions...whether they are legitimate/legal or whatever you want to call it.	
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While it's nice to have a way to gain renown at an extremely fast rate I think it's hurting the game overall
 
With 30-80 people in the renown train at any given time, it takes 30-80 people away from what could be adventures and dungeon groups.
 
I suggest ending the train and adjusting the prices of certain renown items like dyes to a renown cost equal to 2-3 hours of dungeon running or pvping
 
This would then take those 30-80 people and put them into the Dungeon/adventure/pvp queues where they belong
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Personally, I had enough renown prior to the drop to buy points I didn't have, a dye bag, and still enough to get flasks. And that's after I've spent over 500k renown on housing. I never farmed it specifically before. I just run groups that much. I also rarely run full PUG groups. I prefer, generally, to run with folks I know. 
 
I have done the renown train a couple times for an hour here or there. For me, it's time I would have likely spent hover boarding around Thayd. People who want to run stuff won't stop just because of the train. I know several that go to it while waiting for queues to pop. 
 
I don't find a lot of point in worrying about how others play the game. It's their time to spend as they like. If you want to do something specific, then look for it. Find people that want the same things and go do them together. Don't expect others to change what they do just because you want to do something else. I find that works in real life as well as in game.	
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For most players adventures are boring and dungeons are a stressful and demoralizing experience. Renown train is a thing that actually brings players together to share positive experiences, which is something this game desperately needs. 
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For most players adventures are boring and dungeons are a stressful and demoralizing experience.
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I don't agree with your stance that you can take the law into your own hands as such because you think something is a failure.
 
AMP/Ability points are part of the game whether you like it or not and it's not for you to say "they're a ballache to get so I'll push whatever boundaries I can".
 
That's just you trying to justify your actions...whether they are legitimate/legal or whatever you want to call it.
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I've not participated in train myself, but I would think that perhaps having renown given adjusted so this activity can continue for those who prefer doing this activity. However also make more tasking content give higher amount? I guess basically I am saying to have renown scale with content or difficulty.
 
id imagine for example the current train being equal to an hour of shiphand with full group, veteran adventure giving 150%, vet dungeon 200%, and raid giving 250-300 and PvP giving accordingly as well to their "tiers".However I believe that would require much data to gather for Carbine to average out and	
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Really?
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Yes. Trust me I pug all the time. 
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I'd say the truth lies somewhere between what Jeff and Leylin thinks.  I would use my educated opinion to say that most people do probably hate pugging dungeons as they're pretty difficult without a set / geared group.
 
That and the biggest response for people when they complain about dungeon / pug difficulty is "to find a guild."	
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I'm not really attacking you here, at all. I'm simply offering different viewpoints.
 
Just because we can't devote 40 hours a week to this game, doesn't mean we are all ADD console players. What it actually means, is that we are the vast majority of gamers, in general. We are all capable of managing our own time. We are adjusted adults. We enjoy Wildstar as a hobby, and just like other hobbies, you have hardcore hobbyists, and casual hobbyists.
 
It is a double-edged sword. In order to make a game such was warhammer tabletop so appealing to the dedicated and hardcore, it must be pricey, exclusive, and niche. Compare warhammer tabletop to a game like Settlers of Catan, which is still a hobbyist board game, but is casual friendly (45- minute long games), easy to understand, and a much smaller money investment (60$ base + expansion, vs Warhammer 60$ for 1-2 figures).
 
You see, in order to pay for a game as niche as what you want Wildstar to be, you must have a more casual environment as well to help pay for the things that only a small portion actually enjoy. This is part of the reason DS20 now exists over DS40.
 
But no, I would argue that Wildstar does not have an exclusive legendary or artifact weapon. I'd say it has ability / amp points, something that proliferates each aspect of the game to the point that all players need them. Not everyone needs to spend 6 months on a legendary skin. Not everyone needs to spend 6+ months on a weapon that gets better over time. Those things are content for the most dedicated and hardcore.
 
Ability / AMP points are a tremendous failure in regards to character completion, and are a driving force in why this game isn't as popular as it could be.
 
Old Man Tek, I brought you into the discussion to show your general viewpoint, as valid and reasonable perspective from the playerbase you represent. For some reason, I also thought that you were in the same guild as Mae because she's in "Old Timers Guild." Maybe I just made a false connection there.
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I'd say the truth lies somewhere between what Jeff and Leylin thinks.  I would use my educated opinion to say that most people do probably hate pugging dungeons as they're pretty difficult without a set / geared group.
 
That and the biggest response for people when they complain about dungeon / pug difficulty is "to find a guild."
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And you couldn't post this in the huge 7 page thread about renown gains why?....
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I guess this conversation is all anecdotal. I will say though, that a lot of you general discussion guys spend a lot of time theory crafting and making hypothetical situations without actually understanding the MMO player mindset.
 
You're taking a very extreme view of this, suggesting people are avoiding dungeons / adventures instead of participating. Guess what --- farming gold / drops and spending it a world drop ability point is still faster than the amount of dungeons you'd have to do to get the 300k,200k ability / amp points. The problem isn't the renown train-- it's the rewards.
 
As far as what's going to happen when people get their rewards / dyes--- they'll either 1. continue to RNG dye bags for a shot at extra plat, 2. start running dungeons / adventures again to help people out for fun
 
So in reality, nerfing the renown train only hurts your dungeons / adventures anyway. Renown train is a positive event. It doesn't take away from anything. If CRB feels like people are getting rewards too quickly, then they'll change it. Hopefully they won't, because I know plenty of people who are only in Wildstar for the renown train, because they'd rather play another game if they're forced to sit in more pbgs, dungeons, or adventures.
 
Yes, it has been a nice way for those of us who have been displaced from Warhound, without the option of a guild transfer, to get back to what we earned as a guild.
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As I said, given my usual stance on things, I get it; it just made me chuckle. And no, Mae and I are not in the same guild.
 
I like the example you bring up because I think it's a great comparison. That being said, Warhammer is still alive and well. While not experiencing quite the playerbase they would like, it's still a vastly successful game; and they did that by pandering to the hardcore. My point is, not every game needs to be casual friendly to succeed. Take FFXI; that game is ridiculously grindy, but it still enjoys a substantial, sub-paying playerbase even after 12+ years because, for the most part, they've held true to the game.
 
Now take a look at all the MMO's that have tried to make a good game then dumbed it down for the masses: They enjoy a substantial sub-paying playerbase for a few months, make all sorts of insane changes, end up having to go F2P, and then most of them (not all) die off. Why? I think it's because people don't want to play a game of which the devs don't even have a clear direction of where they want to take it. Games for everyone fail everyone.
 
WoW is another monster on it's own. An enigma that will probably never happen again in the MMO world, so we can't truly expect it all to work like it did there.
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The point that people wouldn't even log in if the rewards weren't achievable in a reasonable amount of time? You might not have a job, significant other, responsibilities, or other hobbies, but some of us do, and can't be arsed to grind something we don't want to do just to reach level 50.
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I like the example you bring up because I think it's a great comparison. That being said, Warhammer is still alive and well. While not experiencing quite the playerbase they would like, it's still a vastly successful game; and they did that by pandering to the hardcore. My point is, not every game needs to be casual friendly to succeed. Take FFXI; that game is ridiculously grindy, but it still enjoys a substantial, sub-paying playerbase even after 12+ years because, for the most part, they've held true to the game.
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In the meantime, let's all do it anyway!	
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Warhammer Age of Reckoning was shut down over a year ago. Some folks have the code and are trying to re-engineer it, but that's not alive and well.
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If you read my post, you would see along with ending the renown train, I suggest adjusting the renown cost of those dyes/ability and amp points to equal 3 hours worth of renown gained in BGs/Arena/Dungeons/Adventures/Raiding
 
Basically people would acquire the dyes at a similar pace as the renown train, but doing it in actual group content.
 
All this renown train does is encourage botting and takes needed population away from pvp and pve alike
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Luckily youre here to share your experience just like Leylin is here to share hers.  I think Carbine uses these forums and a combination of exit Surveys for their unsub moments to determine what most people think about it.
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People AFK'd / bullshitted all over practice battlegrounds for the amp / ability point.
People sell gold dungeon carries for the ability / amp point.
People powerlevel path levels just for the ability / amp point.
People spammed veteran shiphands just for the amp point.
 
Now people are grouping up and farming renown for the new amp / ability points.
 
What's the difference?
 
The problem comes with amp / ability points. Yes. It is up to me, and you, to make clear the problems surrounding them. Maybe they should start considering player feedback before making changes to their game.  Maybe try hitting target audiences so that they can make $$$, then make this game better for the rest of us.
 
IMO,
1 amp ability for path
1 amp ability for clearing shiphands
1 amp ability for clearing adventures
1 amp ability for clearing dungeons
1 amp ability for prestige
1 amp ability for attunement
1 amp ability for rep grinds
1 amp ability for X etc...
 
logical and linear rewards for completing content
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I agree they should listen but power levelling a path skill and spamming shiphands are both legit ways of getting them.  AFKing in BG's etc should have been punished and this latest method is somewhat flimsy in terms of whether it is legit or not.  I personally wouldn't just go ahead and participate in something knowing full well that it doesn't feel right at all.
 
However as we've seen so far people do get away with it here so I can understand it wears thin and people eventually go ah stuff this, I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon even if I do get punished because it'll still save me loads of time/money etc etc.
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In the meantime, let's all do it anyway!
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Some of them were just in chat spamming about how they were only there for the point and that they're going to run around in circles / be toxic in chat.
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I was never toxic in chat, but I was tempted to be with the way I was treated. But I still tried my best even though I had some PvPer yelling at me for being a PvEer. Didn't take too many matches to just decide to forgo the gear (which I started to acquire), get my ability point, and leave.
 
And I know you don't respect that decision, but the toxic stuff went both ways in my experience.
 
But that's a different thread.
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As in all things, avoiding the random queues on your own side seems to solve problems, just not in a way that's very constructive to the modern barometers of MMORPG gaming.  Unfortunately, it's a lot harder to do that in PVP when you need another equally sized group on the other side (especially for larger PVP BGs and warplots).  However, if you go old school and there was actually a PVP guild/circle around to pick members up from that you know won't sneer at you, it'll probably be a more positive experience.
 
If there's something players can do about the current situation besides just carrying on while Carbine institutes changes, it's probably what they have started doing lately, getting the word out and organizing.  Even on Entity, we're seeing people announcing a charging of BGs, tiers of PVP, etc.  A few good circles and guilds dedicated to PVP and willing to teach players would probably do for that experience what it does to the dungeon experience, makes it fun.
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I've been ability capped on my main for months now and I still need all the rare dyes. It's not like "I've gotten everything I need from the renown train so I want it to end"
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I don't see why you would want to try to dictate how people have their fun in a game they pay for. If people want to band together in groups of 20 or more and kill everything in site, so what? It's not harming anyone. And as far as I know it's not against the TOS, or Carbine would have stepped in and shut it all down by now.
 
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If there's something players can do about the current situation besides just carrying on while Carbine institutes changes, it's probably what they have started doing lately, getting the word out and organizing.  Even on Entity, we're seeing people announcing a charging of BGs, tiers of PVP, etc.  A few good circles and guilds dedicated to PVP and willing to teach players would probably do for that experience what it does to the dungeon experience, makes it fun.
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Slyjeff, when the PvP population increases, you will be able to play PvP as a casual diversion.
 
Unfortunately, we're all in the same boat as the population issue has caused lots of problems.	
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			Either way, I hope the PvP population gets fixed for you guys. I know you aren't having as much fun as I am, and that's a shame.	
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Yes, we do, and WildStar has that, thankfully. And people like you need to realize that you don't have time for these games anymore. Consoles house a plethora of ADD games just for your type. You're supposed to manage your own time, not demand Carbine does it for you, that's just ludicrous. If I don't have time to go see my friends across-state then I don't go see them; I don't get angry at them for living so far away. You should probably adjust to your own life before asking others to.
 
Also, it's kinda funny that I got singled out in this thread as all I've said was, "Mentoring somone gives another bonus." Granted, I know my usual attitude, so w/e.
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Perhaps someday. Will be a long time before I touch anything related to PvP again. Honestly, I just don't think PvP in this game is what I want. After that big long thread arguing with Eclips, I'm pretty sure if I want to PvP I just need to find another game that's more of a "casual diversion".
 
But my point wasn't about PvP- just that it wasn't only PvErs doing the toxic chat thing. In fact, I never saw PvErs doing that, but maybe I got in on the tail end of it all (I didn't jump into PvP to get my ability point when they became available- only when I'd exhausted my other options and thought a little casual diversion would be fun- but man was it not).
 
I suppose for some this renown train might be kind of a "casual diversion"? I don't know- I don't find the idea appealing at all. But different strokes for different folks.
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			Vic, but for an entry point I don't WANT the dungeon version of PvP, though I'm willing to work up to it. What I want is the shiphand version of PvP where I don't have to think too much and can just shoot at people.I might really enjoy the dungeon version of PvP, but right now I'm having too much fun investing my time in dungeons :)	
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Vic, but for an entry point I don't WANT the dungeon version of PvP, though I'm willing to work up to it. What I want is the shiphand version of PvP where I don't have to think too much and can just shoot at people.
 
I might really enjoy the dungeon version of PvP, but right now I'm having too much fun investing my time in dungeons :)
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Could we please just get a CRB response and close this shit thread already?
 
 	
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			I have also been intrigued at how silent CRB has been while the game's renown system is made completely irrelevant to everyone willing to simply latch on to the train and AFK their way to more dye boxes than a person who plays to earn rewards will ever see in a lifetime of playing.	
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Yep, which is why, as I said, I'll go elsewhere for PvP action.
 
I'm used to other games where you can just log on and do some damage. Had lots of fun time off back in TBC and WotLK blasting around BGs. I wasn't the best, but I did OK and was able to contribute as I learned the strats. But that's a different game for a different crowd.
 
The whole concept of PvP gear has always turned me off (I honestly like PvP to be completely normalized) so I never got into it. I guess by the time I tried I was behind both the knowledge curve and the gear curve. My most enjoyable PvP was stuff like Rainbow Six and Unreal Tournament. Those are probably the kinds of games I should look at when I want to PvP.
 
Anyway, this is all way off topic- sorry about that.	
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			Wildstar pvp is amazing, but I agree the gear gating is an issue but it is getting addressed so soon you shall be fine to go pew pew!	
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Unfortunately, Carbine can't make the enemies in PVP easier. :(  Sort of a drawback/boon to PVP depending on how you look at it, your skill may be what you are, but your enemies' skill is what your competition is.  It's only as hard or easy as the guy on the other side of the electric highway makes it.
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There are plenty of things that Carbine can do.  They're even planning on doing some of them.
 
Right now between the starter set acquisition and the effectiveness of certain pieces of raid equipment it's a gear problem.  Once you get the gear you have to rune it out.  What hasn't been corrected is the RNG slots so adding runes is going to be a "fun" and very expensive chore.
 
Oh right... having the proper AMP loadout.  Even with the new 'edit' mode for AMPs it's still going to be too expensive to swap between PvP and PvE setups on a regular basis.  Until people pick up LAS3 or even LAS4 they will likely run a not-so-hot build.
 
None of these are insurmountable for people with a positive interest.  They are huge pain points for people sitting on the fence or unwilling to slog through endless wipefests until they get enough points (prestige, etc.) to make things genuinely fun (gear, extra LAS sets, AP, AMP, etc.)
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Personally, I hope they kill the renown farming just to end the spam about it.  Seriously, every five minutes there is someone advertising an open spot or begging for an invite.  They really need to get their own channel already.
 
 
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I have also been intrigued at how silent CRB has been while the game's renown system is made completely irrelevant to everyone willing to simply latch on to the train and AFK their way to more dye boxes than a person who plays to earn rewards will ever see in a lifetime of playing.
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{| class="blockquote"
I have also been intrigued at how silent CRB has been while the game's renown system is made completely irrelevant to everyone willing to simply latch on to the train and AFK their way to more dye boxes than a person who plays to earn rewards will ever see in a lifetime of playing.
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You and Old Man Tek often look at this game from the point of view of someone who plays for something to do.
 
I just want you to take a minute and look at it from the perspective of someone with limited time, and has to make choices with what they want to do, when they can play.
 
I think that once you start looking at it from that perspective, you'll start to see things from the viewpoint of the vast majority, and you'll start to understand why people would rather log into H1Z1 and play that game instead of grind dungeons for an ability point.
 
People like you need GW2 Legendary quest lines, or FFXIV artifact weapons.
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I think this is one of those things where you just need to realize it's good for the state of the game that this is happening, despite how you personally kind of get shafted. 
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And finally, how is being in the renown train not playing to earn rewards?  It seems to me that they are explicitly doing an otherwise mindless task solely to earn rewards.
 
P.S.  You seem to imply that people who received pouches through random drops are more deserving of the dyes than people who devote hours to farming renown to buy the pouches.  How do you figure?
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Excuse me, but back the heck up with the "people like you" nonsense. You don't know me. At all. Not even a little. You are making GIANT presumptions about my playstyle based on what exactly?
 
1) I'm a grown woman that realizes that if I don't have the TIME to put into something, I don't deserve the rewards. I have come to understand that I won't ever be in a top end guild on this game, I won't be a hard core, 4-day-a-week or more raider. I don't expect to play a solo game and get the same rewards that raiders get. And I'm ok with that.
 
2) I also need to make choices on what to do with my play time. I choose to predominately do solo things, because it fits me right now. Once a week, I get the privilege of being given 2-3 hours while my kids are awake to raid. I don't have max amp/ability points on even one character yet, and only one character is attuned. I don't even have my defile rep capped, because I don't particularly enjoy those quests, so I don't do them very often. I could go on and on about all the little things I need to do on a daily basis, but can never seem to get done every day. So every day I log in and have to decide where I want to put in my time. Some day, I'll have all my amp and ability points on one character, maybe even two! I'll likely get them primarily from the EG vendor, and I'm ok with that.
 
 
I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's not that I expect these people to change to accomodate my playstyle. I hardly ever do dungeons or adventures because I can't commit to solid chunks of time like that until after my kids are asleep. But I am just saying that I am noticing a decided lack of participation in the events that have always had pretty good attendance up until this train started. People are tied down to the train, and so are far less likely to jump into an R-12 (I've only seen ONE r-12 formed in the week since this train started, used to be 1-2 or more a day) or Gargantua kill. And forget lightspire, that hasn't been run to completion that I've seen since drop 4. You can't tell me the renown train isn't affecting that! And yes, i realize there are other things as well, such as protogames dungeon and the new vet shiphands, but based on the conversations in chat in game, it's mostly that stupid train.
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I see you've forgotten what the concept of risk vs. reward is. That's really interesting. You seemed very familiar with the idea in past discussions.
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			People can get the dye, but actually having it sell at the absurd price is a different story lol	
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So, should I presume that you actually don't understand the advantage to someone being able to scoop up huge amounts of dyes and sell them on the market for large amounts of plat? Or are you just pretending that you don't know the obvious answer to the question in the hope that nobody will explain it?
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			If the dyes weren't consumable, I think this might be a different story, but it's not!	
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Sounds like you would benefit the most from the renown farm, since it lets you stay caught up to all of the people that do have the time to do outside raid progression etc.  Weird that you're somehow against it.
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Because I don't feel the need to "catch up" to anyone. It's not a competition. I don't feel the need to have renown in excessive amounts. I'm quite content with the amount I've got. It allowed me to get a cute hoverboard complete with all the flair. I was in the process of saving up for the other hoverboard and flairs, until those amp and ability points were added in. I may get them, I may not, but I'm not in any hurry to get there. I don't feel I'm a detriment to my guild or raid force because I'm not in that renown train every night "catching up" to them. I can do my job just fine at the point I'm at. And I don't feel like my game time is wasted if I am not earning 60k renown every night. And I simply don't understand why others DO feel that way. I accept there are those that feel that any time they aren't "making the most" of the game is wasted time, but that doesn't make that the one supreme opinion, and everyone else is wrong.
 
I honestly think this renown train is hurting more than helping the game. It is pulling people away from other activities they did prior to the train existing. It might be the most awesome party ever, and all the things people are saying about it, but that doesn't make it HEALTHY for the game. It's more like a short term boost that's bound to result in a massive crash when people get what they want and no longer want to do the train to help others get there too.
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Third, I'm determined not to argue economy or game rewards with you, yasfan.  
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Of course you are. The last thing anybody who's riding this one wants is a detailed discussion of how renown converts into dye converts into plat converts into cash.
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Of course you are. The last thing anybody who's riding this one wants is a detailed discussion of how renown converts into dye converts into plat converts into cash. But hey, if you don't want to talk about the economy or game rewards, I'm fine with that. Can't imagine why you're bothering to post in this thread, which is about game rewards in its entirety.
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You keep on with this "huge" adjective, despite it being objectively wrong.  Someone farming renown in the train will receive more pouches but significantly less dyes overall than someone doing shiphands over the same timespan, and probably less money overall when you factor in eldan sign drops in shiphands and the amount of blue dyes added to the pouch loot table.
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There's a big problem with people talking about things that they don't really know about here.
 
Do your math with 75k-100k renown.  That's a more realistic amount.
So we're looking at one bag of pristine dye every 2.5-3 hours.  
 
I know this because I'm on dye bag #6.
 
There's also a very low chance that your dye is either black or white (worth huge plat), or epic (worth less than 5 plat), and a much larger chance that it's not worth hardly anything.
 
So in reality, and from experience, not only are you completely wrong in this, you're just trying to blow this all out of proportion for the sake of who knows what.
 
... and that's a rate assuming there's 35+ people there all being active.  It's generally lower.	
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There's a big problem with people talking about things that they don't really know about here.
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I do play the game, and I've listened to people on the channels I spend time on comment about the renown train when they're doing it. Yesterday, someone decided to climb on the train for the first time and commented in a channel I was on as their renown started its climb.
 
They went from 2000 renown to 4000 renown in 54 seconds.
81 seconds later, they hit 7000 renown.
About 11 minutes after that, they hit 30000 renown.
 
28000 renown in about 800 seconds is 126000 renown per hour.
 
So with all due respect, no. I'm not going down to 75k/hour because you'd prefer it that way, and I'm not ignoring all dyes that sell for less than a plat when those dyes can be obtained at rates of multiple hundred per hour.
 
 
I'm "blowing it all out of proportion" for the same reason that so many people are doing it. Because it's obviously and completely unhinged in its balance. If it wasn't, nobody would be doing it in the first place.
 
Tomorrow is a week after the drop goes live, I can only hope Carbine is not so completely out of their minds as to leave this in place with their next game maintenance update.
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Why so much emphasis on dyes?  I mean, all they do is change the color of your gear right?  Is this a big deal to you guys?  I have never, not even once, noticed the color or someone's gear. 
 
 
 
Just making sure there isn't something cool about dyes I don't know about; extra stats or something?
 
 	
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			Nope, it is purely cosmetic.  Gamebreaking, I know.	
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"I don't care because it doesn't affect the way I play", but then saying, "I have an opinion because I want to have an opinion," just doesn't make sense, and won't help anyone take you seriously.
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			this  like all other things die down after awhile its not a serious thing... it wont last forever	
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Okay, you're using anecdotal evidence.  I've been renown farming for days and I'm being honest with you because l'm totally okay with your numbers being in this game also.
 
You're wrong.  That's all there is to it.
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Yea you seemed to miss that part of my post earlier...
 
I honestly think that you're blaming the renown train for things that new content is giving you.
 
I mean, to me, it's pretty cut and dry.  New content is going to be more popular than old content. New content like shiphands and renown train (availability of black and white dyes / costumes) are going to be more popular for now than old content like world bosses in rep grinds.
 
Sorry that's how it goes for patches with new content.
 
... but look at it this way--- how much longer do you think people would be up for 2.5 hours of boring shit for the small chance at a good dye bag?  Probably not much longer.	
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Based on your expert opinion from a rough number of bags over a rough number of days? Yours is anecdotal AND approximate. Forgive me for not bowing to your mad quantitative skillz.
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Based on your expert opinion from a rough number of bags over a rough number of days? Yours is anecdotal AND approximate. Forgive me for not bowing to your mad quantitative skillz.
 
 
You sell the dyes for plat. And plat buys you everything there is to have in this game. That's why it's a big deal.
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So I'm inclined to disagree with your statement that "huge" is objectively wrong. 300 dyes for an hour of AFK farming is quite a return for your non-effort. Nobody doing Veteran Shiphands is going to even come close to that.
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			*shrug* if there's a way to get 150k an hour I'd like to know what it is, LOL	
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... but look at it this way--- how much longer do you think people would be up for 2.5 hours of boring shit for the small chance at a good dye bag?  Probably not much longer.
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Oh, are we talking? Because I thought you were quite adamant that we weren't, which is why I didn't bother responding to your last post.
 
If we are, then reading skills ftw, Vince. 
To refresh YOUR memory, we're talking about the rate of renown gain. Eclips is giving his general impression based on an unspecified amount of time. Mine is based on someone posting their renown gains into a chat channel with timestamps.
 
 
If Eclips has actually provided actual amounts of renown and an even remotely accurate estimate of amount of playtime required to obtain it, I must've missed it. 
Provide a link, please, so that I may see where he provided some actual measurements and not some off-the-cuff estimates.
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			It's 70k-75k an hour because of rate of spawns. You will have bursts where you'll earn large amounts due to people being spread out and killing everything at same time, but with most afking, you're not having that amount always pouring in. Yes, if you can manage to kill all spawns you have respawns pop instantly at times, but it's not consistent enough to calculate up to 126k. If everything went perfect for an hour, yes, technically it could be. Realistically though, you're always going to see it in the 70k range. 	
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Okay this is out of hand, Yasfan.
 
You can take it however you want, but you're wrong in this one, and I think we all know you don't really have any ground to stand on.
 
Splitting hairs and provoking other posters isn't going to somehow make your misinformed information become factual.
 
I have no reason to lie to you, and you're just wrecking this conversation with hyperboles, anecdotal evidence, and harsh opinions.
 
I'd encourage you to try it for yourself, see what you think, make the measurements if you need to, and then try to take this conversation and this post again with a fresh perspective and breather in between now and then.	
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Okay this is out of hand, Yasfan.
 
You can take it however you want, but you're wrong in this one, and I think we all know you don't really have any ground to stand on.
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So what is this discussion about at this point?  You gave an estimate based on your anecdotal evidence, and I gave an estimate based on my first hand experience.  I've spent hours doing it, and I've tried to optimize it the best that I can.  On average, I'd say the best you can possibly get is still under 100k.  I'd say what post people are getting is still closer to 60-75k.  
 
Now I'm telling you this from first-hand experience, trying to optimize it and stack the best buffs that I can.  If you choose to believe your anecdotal evidence over mine, that's your prerogative. However, the burden of proof is not on me this time, it is on you.  Until you can say for yourself that you've achieved more, (which you could just lie if you wanted to,) then quit trying to tell us to prove that it's not.
 
Overall I see here, blablabla the renown train hurts everyone because it makes everyone rich---?  No.... if anything it makes everyone less rich, because all of these things are consumable. That means platinum / gold changes hands, and is then consumed.
 
Do you know what that means for the economy?
 
Let me give you an example:  The garden exploit
 
This exploit allowed players to create platinum from the vendor, then use that platinum to consume items and remove them from the market.  This raises the prices of items, directly making the value of platinum decrease for everyone else that doesn't have that massive amount of platinum.  This is bad for the economy.
 
The flip side is the renown farm:
This perfectly fine example of good player grouping creates valuable items such as dyes and runes, with time.  This then gives the economy a previously unavailable / high demand item in supply.  This allows money to change hands, and then the item of value is consumed.  This is an example of a healthy economic event, where platinum / gold leaves the market (ah/cx fees, runes being built and crafted, etc) and thus increases the value of platinum over time.  This allows players with less platinum to have more buying power.
 
You can then use that higher value platinum to obtain and purchase CREDD, further removing platinum from the economy with activation.
 
Overall this is a good thing for this game, especially after the garden bug exploit.	
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Which is why I didn't claim that you'd get hundreds of high-value dyes. Last time I checked, the dyes that drop from Vet Shiphands aren't bundles of epics that can only otherwise be gained from pouches of pristine pigments. They've been quite a wide range.
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 I didn't ask you for a link. I asked dinwitt. Your quote of my last post omitted some text between my comments to you and my comments to him, which has the unfortunate effect of making it look like I was talking to you through the whole thing. I wasn't. 
 
So... I'm not asking you for what you're indignantly telling me not to ask you for. While you call me rude and tell me to back off as if somehow I'm being mean to you for having the gall to actually respond to your points with anything less than total agreement.
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In todays patch-notes:
 
Renown can no longer be gained while in a raid group unless the group is in a raid zone. 
Sounds like they broke half the game because of this now, no more renown for Blighthaven raid-quests and others, world bosses or R12, Hellrose Bowl?
Are we supposed to run in a lot of smaller groups now instead of one raid?
 
//fixed or broken?	
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Renown can no longer be gained while in a raid group unless the group is in a raid zone.In todays patch-notes.
 
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Edit: Forget the below statement, just read the notes of the update.
 
I don't want to pee on this fire or nothing but...
 
Through your own admission Eclips you're doing it for guild influence which probably means you haven't got all the guild buffs etc?  So when yasfan mentions his/her numbers this could well be coming from someone who already has all the buffs under the sun etc.  Yes it doesn't make up for 100% gains over you but there's a lot of variables in it.  Were they even in NW or have they found a better place for it etc etc!
 
So I think the specific number are pretty irrelevant anyway and the basis of the discussion is whether the gains from this far outweigh what they should/were intended to do when you compare them to shiphands,adventures,dungeons, group content in general.
 
Let's get back on topic!! :)	
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Well there you go, Yasfan.  You win.  I'm sure we'll never heard the end of it.
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"But, they're selling the dyes for HUGE amounts of plat and buying what they need with it!!!"  Would it have made a difference if they were using their renown to buy what they need instead of using plat they gained selling the dyes?
 
Anyway, y'all won.	
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{| class="blockquote"
In todays patch-notes:
 
Renown can no longer be gained while in a raid group unless the group is in a raid zone. 
Sounds like they broke half the game because of this now, no more renown for Blighthaven raid-quests and others, world bosses or R12, Hellrose Bowl?
Are we supposed to run in a lot of smaller groups now instead of one raid?
 
//fixed or broken?
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Not sure why they just didn't put the dyes up on the renown vendor for lets say 500k. Would of solved most of the Issue.
 
I hope everyone bought there amp and ability points because its going to take you 50-100 hours in dungeons now.	
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FYI - Renown train still can be applied.
 
Get 30 people, split into groups of 5, and have each group of 5 split into 5 different spawn points.  Spam your basic attack, farm as usual, all renown still gets distributed to all parties who's group members strike the mobs.
 
 
The Farm is REAL.	
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			 :ph34r:	
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{| class="blockquote"
FYI - Renown train still can be applied.
 
Get 30 people, split into groups of 5, and have each group of 5 split into 5 different spawn points.  Spam your basic attack, farm as usual, all renown still gets distributed to all parties who's group members strike the mobs.
 
 
The Farm is REAL.
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It was pretty bloody obvious, let's be honest.  People have made their gains, let's just move on eh and forget it ever happened!!
 
The thing I don't get is if it wasn't intended they should have stuck an official comment up saying so and is it really that hard to hotfix that sort of thing on it's own and then get the other stuff in!
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{| class="blockquote"
FYI - Renown train still can be applied.
 
Get 30 people, split into groups of 5, and have each group of 5 split into 5 different spawn points.  Spam your basic attack, farm as usual, all renown still gets distributed to all parties who's group members strike the mobs.
 
 
The Farm is REAL.
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