116245-free-transfers-to-jabbit-are-killing-luminai-page-4

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Let's get back on topic about the transfers! :)
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			This is still an issue and all the current Carbine responses have done is fan the flames. We know there is a problem but they deny it. The problem megaservers were supposed to solve has been recreated by this one way street mistake. 	
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Megaservers killed the game for me
 
I was on Hazak, which had a healthy population, megaservers come and I'm alone on Luminai.
 
Rofl the irony.	
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lost of posts to respond to:
 
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It's unfair for players who had no problems grinding straight to 50 unhindered to transfer to a server where people suffered and experienced tons of ganks in order to reach cap. 
Plain and simple.
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Hey folks, 
As much as I would enjoy seeing Tony come across the might of EU PvP players and the EU Community Team (you saw what we did to Frost) it's not really practical to have him play on EU servers.
 
I also realise that the "not-so-subtle" undertone of this thread is the same as this one. Youmukon has already posted the response we received from the Live Team on that issue so at this time there isn't much more we can say.
 
If you have feedback for the Zero-To-Fifty stream, I'd recommend leaving it in the sticky thread for questions for the big Cheez himself.
 
Cheers,
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Isn't the topic dead? There are no more transfers. The request to revisit this as been made, explained, countered, reinvigorated, and beaten to death. :P  The posters in this thread got three responses from Carbine reps. The hardline position has been stated, disapproval of this position has been presented. Good game.
 
I think the only reason this thread is still unlocked is because the forum mods would rather keep the complaints (legitimate or not) contained in a single area.
 
Suppose folks can keep posting their own evidence of Luminai's ailing population, to contrast the 'healthy' comment...
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Carbine, why you gotta be like this guy?
 
 
I might just have to wait for another good MMO to come along wherein I will wait to see if yet again the company turns out to be run by *cupcake*ing monkeys!	
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Not only did he transfer, but he merged with another guild and they all transfered Monday morning. On top of that instead of passing them down he closed every and each circle that he owned. But it's alright because some of my guildies had to transfer their mains off to be able to afford CREDD so whenever they are on Jabbit they can insult him for lying AND ruining a bunch of circles for us. 
And yes, he lied. They left in pretty much perfect formation with no-one left behind. You can't plan such a jump without preparation.
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Though this responce is probably the worst. They're saying that they won't visit the server themselves and see how it is. I suppose I can just let my guild die now and unsub. As how PvP players feel is completely none of their concern. Congrats Carbine. You cured my fanboyism.
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Again, to everyone who I let down and who's frustrated with me - I'm sorry, and I apologise.
 
~WalzY
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Isn't the topic dead? There are no more transfers. The request to revisit this as been made, explained, countered, reinvigorated, and beaten to death. :P  The posters in this thread got three responses from Carbine reps. The hardline position has been stated, disapproval of this position has been presented. Good game.
 
I think the only reason this thread is still unlocked is because the forum mods would rather keep the complaints (legitimate or not) contained in a single area.
 
Suppose folks can keep posting their own evidence of Luminai's ailing population, to contrast the 'healthy' comment...
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it's a shame on pay to play... if carbine don't want the european money... they  just won't have it at the end.
 
Only one thing can be done now: merge all the server BUT to let the people who like pvp propose a choice before logging : if the player chooses pvp he will always have the pvp mark until he disconect and if he chooses the other option it will be like on pve server ....	
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Just to put this all to rest, I've moved. No, it wasn't planned. Right up until 23:50 my time we were expecting to merge with Equilibrium, remain on Luminai, and be fine. That was when we'd scheduled the merge meeting for, straight after our raids ended. Our raid was suffering from people moving to Jabbit, and no new player influx, and Carbine cemented the issue. For hardcore raiders, going from downing 5/6 bosses in 4 hours, and getting Ohmna to 8% after weeks and weeks and weeks of effort to being unable to down convergence with two back-to-back awful raids without enough members, we needed the merge. At 23:50 Equilibrium told us that their members had made the decision to move and some had already gone. Their reasoning was that too many people had already jumped ship, and the economy was going to be too harsh. 
 
I then had two awful options, and I knew people were going to hate me either way. I could tell the guild to stay, to ask all the guys who'd been busting their nuts in our raid group for weeks on end to sit here in the dark and expect nothing, no raids, no content, nada and just wait upon Carbine to magically restore the PvP population they so wonderfully destroyed so that we could salvage the wreckage a few months down the line. I'd been asking all of them to please stick with it for WEEKS of slow progress. Please stay with me. It will be alright. Carbine will do something. Well, Carbine didn't do *cupcake*ing anything. If I asked them to stay, it would have been one ask too many, I would have expected at least 25% of our core veteran raiders to leave, and the most loyal I'd be asking to walk to their deaths. I couldn't ask that of them, not having been with them every step of the way in our raids and knowing the effort and dedication they gave up to raid with us, going extra hours into the morning, 2-4am and getting up to be at 8-9am work because I asked them to as raid-leader. The other option was to give up on PvP altogether, merge with Equilibrium, clear GA this week, and be in Datascape either next week or the week after, and let people experience the feeling of FPS lag in Thayd once more.
 
Everything I'd done that week was trying to convince everyone to stop jumping ship and stay. I tried, I really *cupcake*ing tried. I was talking to people in the guild constantly about why we should stay, why we should ensure that people didn't jump ship. I talked to people in zone chat who were fed up. I joined in with this thread on the forums, I spent 4 hours writing a post on reddit. The reddit post was a serious attempt to get Carbine to react, and to convince people to stay. If people stayed, we could weather the storm. I tried, I really *cupcake*ing tried. At about 1am, I gave the okay to move. The move wasn't clean, it was as clean as I could make it with no pre-warning. I rounded up all the people online, ensured they contacted any of their friends, I skyped offline people, we had our website changed, I e-mailed some members who would get notifications on their phones, I rang up/woke up some members. I then made a list of everyone who we had no contact with and made a support ticket was well as sending a ticket to the emergency line to make provisions for them to allow them to cross, saying I would send another ticket and use that ticket as reference. For the circles, I *cupcake*ed up, and it was a mistake. I really wasn't thinking when I just spammed disband on everything - I was frustrated/angry/salty/exhauasted. It was about 1:30am for me, trying to manage all of the above. I'd been up since 7am that morning, I'd done 2 hours of running around a sports hall as VP of one of our university's social sports clubs - which involved managing about 200 students at once, taking money, organising games, directing them to the right people/place, grading their skill levels and creating pegs for their game-organisation. I then had 5 hours of uni-team fitness training, sprinting around the sports hall, doing shuttle runs until I couldn't breathe, squats, burpees, you name it. By the time I came back for raid at 6pm in the evening walking up the stairs was an effort. By 1:30 am after a shitty raid trying to teach new people and having regular raiders vent their frustrations at me, followed by the last minute necessity and resignation at having to move to Jabbit, I was out of energy and I really had nothing left. I had to get up for 9am lectures myself. I'm a uni student, I have exams, essays and presentations to keep up with as well, and I was hoping to get in a few hours of revision after a successful merge that evening. I didn't think. I just angrily hit all the disband buttons, cleared all my mail and moved.
 
I know people are angry at me, which is why I've not said much recently. Whatever I did, people would be angry and upset. I shouldn't have *cupcake*ed up on the circles. I'm really sorry about that. I promise I really just wasn't thinking clearly at all at that point. Since I've moved I've had people constantly rubbing it in, snarky whispers, comments in battlegrounds, "told you so's", people calling me a liar, whatever, you name it. I probably deserve it. The worst part of it is that what makes me happy is making other people happy. I suffer from severe depression, and one of the main things that gets me through life is helping other people out and working with a community of nice people to ensure they're looked after and having a good time. It really really does not make me feel good when I know I've let people down, and it's even worse when they're pissed off at me. So yeah, if you really must then whisper me on Jabbit - shouldn't be too hard to find me, tell me what a piece of shit I am. I know how you feel and I expect it. Some people get kicks out of it, because internet anonymity is great for this kinda stuff. I'd ask that you don't, because it doesn't make my day any better, but I understand it. At the same time you're doing that, please do try and see it from my perspective, and understand that I was trying to take the hit and compensate for Carbine management's monumental lack of competence in looking after their game and caring for their players. They should be held ultimately accountable for this.
 
Again, to everyone who I let down and who's frustrated with me - I'm sorry, and I apologise.
 
~WalzY
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One would think that, if one were judging the health of a PVP server, one would not be worried as much about the population of Illium and Thayd, but the population of Blighthaven.
 
It's a PVP server, go out and kill each other!  That's what it's for.  That's what world content is like, it's often kicked off by players.  One would think that guilds on Lumenai and Warhound would be knocking each other over trying to throw PVP parties on each others' doorsteps.
 
If they're not, why would anyone stay on a PVP server, even in the best of times?  Carbine can institute PVP events, possibly, given time.  But open world PVP has to come from the players first and foremost.
 
They need more of this, and less of this thread expounding the virtues of Jabbit and the self-admitted weaknesses of their own scene.
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-snip-
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There's not enough people to knock each other around even. We are organizing a server wide warplot on the 29th though. That is if exiles will manage to fill the 40 spots trough out all the guilds that we have.
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Ah Walzy :(
 
I really feel for you darling, that sounds like it was actually a very hard choice you had to make at the last minute, and certainly as a leader in your shoes I probably would have done the same. (Luckily for me, my guild does not PvE, and almost all the members were very supportive about staying on Luminai) And as someone who does the same thing as you (make other people happy, regardless of my own happiness... because it makes me happy?) I totally get where you're coming from. Let's just hope to hell Carbine actually listen to the feedback we've given and either merge, or open transfers back this way. Please don't take this situation too hard, I read your post on reddit, it shows you care about this game and your guild, and the circles were obviiously just an oversight. I'm just sad I wont see your name about to gank anymore /shrug
 
People should not be whispering you going "told you so", that's just indicative of the type of people who just followed like sheep to Jabbit.
 
And Mirta, don't admit defeat and be discouraged with your guild, the situation here can be improved and worked with. We have to make this work now how it is.
 
If I can manage it, I will try and get as many people as I can to queue for that warplot on the 29th (on dom side) although I doubt we'd be able to fill 40 people just from my guild and the randomers around illium but I can try.
 
@Vic - There is no need to patronise us as players because everyone left the server. I go with my guildies most days to find something to do, I advertised on the forums constantly on Hazak for WPvP events, I put it in zone chat. I'm good at rounding up troops and making fun out of a situation. Coming out with "you aren't trying hard enough" when there literally is like 2 or 3 guilds left on each side means there aren't the people to advertise to!
And even if we did, they can't come back to luminai anyway!	
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Maybe that's your problem.  You guys have crap advertising.  All I've seen out of most PVP server players is that World PVP is dead, nobody does it, people just hang out in town.  Hence your problem.  Why would anyone want to do any of the thing your server is known for when everyone thinks it doesn't happen, and nobody does it.  Even I knew about the Farside rumble on Warhound, and I'm on Entity.  They managed to roll multiple raids from both factions into the fight and put together a nice long list of contacts to organize PVP rumbles with.
 
If you really want Lumenai to survive, you have to give people a reason to be there instead of Jabbit; PVE servers will always have higher populations because there are more people who just don't want to PVP.  You have to make your server at least sound like it's worthwhile.  In the lead up to the megaservers, Evindra picked up population because people were transferring there.  Not because of our stunning PVE or PVP scenes, not because they were roleplayers, but because Evindra people were out in force saying we had the best server in the game.  That we ran events, races, and Thaydfest (thank you Nephele).
 
You're essentially writing a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If the only thing anyone sees here is that Lumenai is a hole with no real PVP scene and with the PVE players better served moving to Jabbit, your server has no chance.  People will come here deciding whether to roll PVP or PVE, see that "PVP is dead and everyone's moving to PVE to raid", and will roll on Jabbit.  People on the server, instead of seeing ads for a guild challenging all comers to 40 on 40 rumbles, throwing weekly fight club events, and raiding other cities and towns like vikings, will see about five or six threads of people on Lumenai panicking because they have nothing to offer and every reason to leave.
 
If you really want people to roll on Lumenai because you want more people than you are currently seeing there to get active (which you might want to switch your rhetoric to, it's a little less breathy than screaming no one is there, which seriously undermines your intention to populate your server and all the evidence from the devs), you need to give them a reason to think they can get something from Lumenai they can't get from Jabbit.
 
Right now, they don't see that.  I don't blame them.  From all accounts I've heard, Lumenai has nothing to offer them that Jabbit isn't offering them, and Jabbit has a higher population because of its ruleset.  The people on Lumenai obviously aren't getting out there and PVPing the way they should be to make a PVP server work.  Carbine can't implement anything that will make people PVP in the open world, which is the only thing Lumenai potentially can do that Jabbit can't for players.  If you can't make your server look palatable, you'll never attract new players or existing players to reroll.  You're asking people to invest in a server now, you have to make it worthwhile if you want to survive against a server with something like three to four times the population of yours.
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Ah Walzy :(
 
I really feel for you darling, that sounds like it was actually a very hard choice you had to make at the last minute, and certainly as a leader in your shoes I probably would have done the same. (Luckily for me, my guild does not PvE, and almost all the members were very supportive about staying on Luminai) And as someone who does the same thing as you (make other people happy, regardless of my own happiness... because it makes me happy?) I totally get where you're coming from. Let's just hope to hell Carbine actually listen to the feedback we've given and either merge, or open transfers back this way. Please don't take this situation too hard, I read your post on reddit, it shows you care about this game and your guild, and the circles were obviiously just an oversight. I'm just sad I wont see your name about to gank anymore /shrug
 
People should not be whispering you going "told you so", that's just indicative of the type of people who just followed like sheep to Jabbit.
 
And Mirta, don't admit defeat and be discouraged with your guild, the situation here can be improved and worked with. We have to make this work now how it is.
 
If I can manage it, I will try and get as many people as I can to queue for that warplot on the 29th (on dom side) although I doubt we'd be able to fill 40 people just from my guild and the randomers around illium but I can try.
 
@Vic - There is no need to patronise us as players because everyone left the server. I go with my guildies most days to find something to do, I advertised on the forums constantly on Hazak for WPvP events, I put it in zone chat. I'm good at rounding up troops and making fun out of a situation. Coming out with "you aren't trying hard enough" when there literally is like 2 or 3 guilds left on each side means there aren't the people to advertise to!
And even if we did, they can't come back to luminai anyway!
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so make 5 people battle what? 5 people? 
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I don't think you've completely understood my point if this is a good response.
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But it's alright because some of my guildies had to transfer their mains off to be able to afford CREDD 
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The reason there is nothing left, is because of everyone jumping ship. As having Hazak as a feeder realm I always expected Luminai to be more populated than Jabbit, at least until Carbine made the decision to open transfers from pvp > pve for free.
 
If that had not remained, if the transfers were not there.. I'd like to think that Luminai would have had similar if not higher population than Jabbit.
 
People got scared, understandably. It's common sense, moving to a realm where you have free range of recruitment that anyone can get to is very, very important, and ofc guilds took advantage of that. I'm certain if they had have done the same thing in reverse (tfers from pve>pvp only and none back) we would have exactly the same situation, except it would probably not be to the same extent.
 
Like I said before, I am going to try and make the best of the server now. I might horrifically fail and not manage to get the ball rolling on anything pvp related, but I'm stubborn as hell and I'm going to try my hardest.
 
And yes, the reputation of the server is in tatters, recieving mails from people before they left with the message "haha just your noob guild left" is discouraging, but hell to it.
 
Luminai might not be very populated compared to Jabbit, but I will try to make it known for it's pvp, both instanced and in world. (bearing in mind ofc that drop 3 is a success and not half of my members quit)	
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The balance between the 2 servers market wise is very different. There are now only 2 servers per region, can these be combined together to make the market more stable on Luminai?
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Jabbit has a higher population because of its ruleset.
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Maybe that's your problem.  You guys have crap advertising.
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Well you told a server depleted of people to organize multipeople open world events. 
We're a nice community. We spent a lot of time helping each other, helping new people. We made friends. But at the moment we're more than just upset. We're boarderline depressed. Why? There's no one to play with. If we can't get a group to kill world bosses, how are we supposed to organize open world PvP? The last time I did world bosses, there was 7 of us. Most of them were my guildies. We spent around an hour recruiting. But there's not a lot of us left. Even the support just tells people to roll an alt on Jabbit. How can a server live with transfers closed and developers have given up on us?
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Jabbit has a higher population because of the one way traffic. Its very unhealthy for any community if any form of traffic is only allowed into one direction. I just cannot believe that Carbine made this huge f'up while they have been warned plenty of times by the community...
 
I know there are plenty of people on Jabbit that would prefer playing on a pvp server, but they were never allowed to move there. When the 2 biggest raiding guilds leave the server with a deadline and no future possibily of moving again, people get scared and follow their example.
 
It doesn't matter if you organise events or not, if those guilds feel that their recruitment and future raiding roster is at stake they WILL move. Even if they all prefer playing under the pvp ruleset.
 
Even if carbine never opens up any form of transfer to/from our server, at least merge our CX/AH/CREDD exchange with the Jabbit server. I know plenty of players that use Credd to support their play time, and we cant afford to loose more players just because of the high credd prices on our server.
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 If the general consensus is that people were taking advantage of the transfers because they decided raiding > staying on the server, that says something. 
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It depends.  Obviously, you'll need more than just an hour's notice and you need to get the attention of a lot of people who aren't going to always be paying attention to /z chat.  Since Thaydfest, I've got a swollen rolodex of names I can use if I want to run an event, and I know exactly what channels to go through to get it.  It takes a lot of advertising, though.  Thadfest was being said in threads (certainly mine, since that was kind of my job), for a month before the event, and the megaserver just happened at the best time for us.  It wasn't just attracting random people; it was getting the sponsorship and participation of multiple guilds just to run the gargantuan thing.
 
You need to establish a server reputation, first and foremost.  People aren't going to stay on the server to kill world bosses; they can do it on Jabbit.  They need that PVP, and that means a lot of organization.  That means potentially setting up weekly fight nights dead center in the middle of Illium.  That means throwing King of the Hill games in the open world.  That means building PVP arenas on housing plots, running PVP training, and raiding each others' cities.
 
If you want there to be more people running around on the server doing things, you'll need both the more lethargic players on the server to feel like they have a reason to get involved, and you'll need to give people a reason to think that re-rolling on the PVP server is more fun than the PVE server.  That means gathering rewards for player competitions, making a circle of just champions of certain fights and then letting them display that as their title, then kicking them out when they lose (the way the Gran Prix works here).
 
There are a lot of things to do.  People don't leave a server because the option is there, they leave because they feel like they have no other options.  And believe me, if your draw is that you want people to raid on your PVP server, you're going to lose.  But you're not down and out yet.  See this...
 
 
 
I don't agree with the traffic argument (PVE realms are always higher in population because there are more carebears everywhere), but when you see things like what I've highlighted in red, people like me get a different opinion of the server.  People are more likely to try it out.
 
You just need to make sure people don't roll on Jabbit because they don't gain anything on Lumenai.  People didn't transfer just for larger raid pools, they transferred because constant world PVP wasn't worth the more limited raid pool.  It's a conscious decision to go PVE over PVP because "PVP is dead".  How many times have I heard that?  And if it's dead, why stay?
 
That's what I mean by bad advertising.  If the general consensus is that people were taking advantage of the transfers because they decided raiding > staying on the server, that says something.  We didn't have a mass exodus from Evindra to raiding servers (that happened when people pitched a tantrum over the megaserver announcement).  You have to counteract that by being more like Sylqt here.  Whether I agree with him or not, he DOES make Lumenai sound like a place that could be fun.  And that's the important part.
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			Chua still not get why would follow if guild decides to move....	
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Chua still not get why would follow if guild decides to move....
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Nah it started with one guild, that started playing with people their minds and its known that most
people act like apes and follow the flow. This made a stream and ended up with one dead server!
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As I said, I don't buy the one-way traffic argument because I highly doubt people would move from a server they like to a server they don't like due to raid population.  Large raiding guilds that weren't PVPing went to Jabbit because that's where the PVE population is.
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Well 
1. Mass hysteria of getting stuck on a server with no guilds
2. Friends leaving. 
It was alright when the transfers were open for a month, but because they were going to shut the transfers down permanently, with no paid ones available and other guilds seen datascape guilds leave it induced a mass panic.
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Yea. I think Warhound (NA PvP) would be having the same issue as Luminai, if Subterfuge and Hindsight had done the same thing as Eugenic and Codex.
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The best part about all this is the members in my guild who
where on vacation and not contactable, who return today
to a empty guild and a empty realm.
 
If you magically wish to help us like you did with Codex, please
transfer "I Denid".He has put up support tickets, to which he got declined.	
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What are we supposed to give a months notice to? 
R12?
World bosses?
World events? 
Raiding > open world PvP, because pretty much nobody on Luminai had a one track mind. We enjoyed all aspects of the game. IF you're attached to and have befriended people in a guild that did both, pvp and pve (which was majority of the guilds), then you'll leave with them. Solely because there wasn't enough flow to justify trying to tackle 40 man raids. PvE server had a flow of both new players and players from the PvP servers, as you can transfer PvP -> Pve, but not the opposite way around. With the game trickling players this was important for raiding guilds. 
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That's why I'm specifically calling out player run events.  Those kept Evindra alive in the face of Stormtalon eating everyone during transfers (a lot of my newer members were transfers to Evindra from Stormtalon).  If you're trying to get people to run R12, World Bosses, etc., you need to get them active in the game first.  If people feel like they get everything on Jabbit they'd get from Lumenai, why would they stay?  I highly suggest you don't bank your events' success solely on running R12 or world bosses.
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The best part about all this is the members in my guild who
where on vacation and not contactable, who return today
to a empty guild and a empty realm.
 
If you magically wish to help us like you did with Codex, please
transfer "I Denid".
He has put up support tickets, to which he got declined.
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Large raiding guilds went to Jabbit bacause they could not recruit players from the pve server, so if they players cant get to them, they will have to move the guild to the players, THATS the problem of one-way traffic.
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One major difference - for your server transfers both to and from were open. The transfers are permanently closed here. 
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But Subterfuge and Hindsight didn't.  It's not like Warhound is as big or has as large a pool of potential raiders as Entity (carebears live to multiply).  That's a big difference.  Those guilds stuck it out on Warhound.
 
I don't hear Warhound folks talking poorly about their server as often, either.  I hear them lamenting the lack of world PVP, but the Farside fights are pretty well advertised.  That did a LOT to fluff the server's reputation in the week or so after the megaserver launch.
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I really like how you're jumping the blame around. We aren't doing enough, it's our fault. It's Codex and Eugenic's fault.It's everyone's fault but one way transfers have nothing to do with it.
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I didn't get that from Vic's post.
 
He used Evin-tity and Warhound as examples of folks who invested heavily in their communities with a positive attitude.
 
Maybe Luminai could do the same?	
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I didn't get that from Vic's post.
 
He used Evin-tity and Warhound as examples of folks who invested heavily in their communities with a positive attitude.
 
Maybe Luminai could do the same?
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 You do realize a great number of Luminai players are now in Jabbit and still enjoying the game regardless of this fiasco, right?
 
Even players who were definitely against it are now in Jabbit and playing the game as every Exile and Dominion should.
 
Players tend to move around. And logical players tend to go with the flow instead of fighting it.
 
Most especially if it's already a lost battle.
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That's why I'm specifically calling out player run events.  Those kept Evindra alive in the face of Stormtalon eating everyone during transfers (a lot of my newer members were transfers to Evindra from Stormtalon).
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He's actually got a very good point here. The situation isn't the same at all. I myself am one of the people who actually transferred to Evindra with about a dozen other people while Evindra had people tranferring off. Evindra only survived because people could transfer to it. Nobody can get to Luminai, and that's all they want: for people to be allowed to get there.
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Although I agree the situation is different, the claim that Evindra only survived because of two-way transfers is false.
 
I could just as easily claim that Evindra 'survived' because it had dedicated RPers who had no reason to transfer to Stormtalon. Unlike every other server that quickly dried up because there was no distinct server identity, Evindra had plenty of players who didn't necessarily want higher population, or didn't mind the flagging economy, or simply loved Evindra for Evindra, or wanted to continue roleplaying in a harassment-free zone. There were many, many reasons for folks to stay on Evindra, and while the players who transferred to the server certainly helped offset the players leaving, they didn't 'save' our beloved homeland. :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's how you make a name for your server.
----
			
Most of the RP community that didn't transfer off of Evindra were the ones that don't play the game. By that I mean they only RP, and never leave Thayd or their housing plots. This same phenomena cannot exist on Luminai, on which gameplay must exist outside of Thayd, and so that entire part of Evindra's population needs to be discounted when you compare them.
 
Vic, Esper, how many times were you personally part of an R-12 raid or a Scorchwing raid or a GotG raid on Evindra during the weeks leading up to the megaserver?	
----
			
Punjoke, I think the premise of your argument is solid, but you're discounting the leveling experience as gameplay. Plenty of RPers will spend time leveling rather than RPing, or RP while they level, etc. You're also discounting housing as a part of the play experience, and while the actual building may not be part of gameplay design, the gameplay rewards system which gives us decor directly ties into housing. And Evindra had lots of housing lovers!
 
Endgame was certainly not a focus of the server... but it's unfair to assert that endgame is the defining element of gameplay. ;)
 
edit for additional point: I'm a poor example for your argument. I never participated in any of those events on Evindra— I'm also NOT a roleplayer (I'm a housing junky), and more importantly, I haven't participated in any of those events on Entity, either. :P	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Most of the RP community that didn't transfer off of Evindra were the ones that don't play the game. By that I mean they only RP, and never leave Thayd or their housing plots. This same phenomena cannot exist on Luminai, on which gameplay must exist outside of Thayd, and so that entire part of Evindra's population needs to be discounted when you compare them.
 
Vic, Esper, how many times were you personally part of an R-12 raid or a Scorchwing raid or a GotG raid on Evindra during the weeks leading up to the megaserver?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Punjoke, I think the premise of your argument is solid, but you're discounting the leveling experience as gameplay. Plenty of RPers will spend time leveling rather than RPing, or RP while they level, etc. You're also discounting housing as a part of the play experience, and while the actual building may not be part of gameplay design, the gameplay rewards system which gives us decor directly ties into housing. And Evindra had lots of housing lovers!
 
Endgame was certainly not a focus of the server... but it's unfair to assert that endgame is the defining element of gameplay. ;)
----
			Punjoke: You don't build those deluxe full placement housing areas without a crap ton of Renown. And you don't get Renown sitting in Thayd.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yep. We also had a niche draw with the RP tag, which helps a ton.
 
I left because housing > all for me, but returned once I had ravaged the Stormtalon auction for decor. Also because although the majority of people seem cool, there's an extremely noticeable difference in public channel attitude from Evindra to Stormtalon/Entity. Evindra mysteriously had almost zero d-bagishness, but I've received a hot dose of it several times since the merger.
 
Such is life in a diverse community. -_-
 
 
Back on rails, I hope that Carbine re-opens a two-way dialogue in the near future, including more elaborate information that explains their reasons for:
 
1. Allowing only 1-way
 
2. Not discussing the possibility of a PVP-PVE merge, or really any solution *if* Luminai's population does continue to sink
 
 
These do seem to stand out as sore points atm. That said, I don't expect a reply in the near future, or even necessarily to this specific thread.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Punjoke: You don't build those deluxe full placement housing areas without a crap ton of Renown. And you don't get Renown sitting in Thayd.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I had over 500k renown by the time I leveled to 50. How much more do you need?
----
			omg, did ALL the dominion transfer off?! waiting at the raid portal and no dommies there to poke!!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We've discussed Evindra leveling zones in previous threads, more times than I can count, so I won't go into it. But yes, the level 10 zones are filled with players. They disappear at level 14 when RPers gain access to their housing plots.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
omg, did ALL the dominion transfer off?! waiting at the raid portal and no dommies there to poke!!
----
			
IMO what kills the PvP server is not the transfers, but how sometimes the community deals on it.  I play on US PvP servers.  The other day was on Whitevale with a Dom char, and just got PK by a lvl 50.
 
I guess the player has a small frontal equipment and can only feel that he's someone kind of powerful is by pking people half his level and will get 1-hit killed.
 
Is not that you should not kill other players in a PvP server, far from that.  I kill some if I'm feeling it, but again IMO no lvl 50 has anything to look (except for mat farming) in a lower area.  You want to PK, go to your level zones.  If I remember correctly they gain nothing from killing a lower lvl char.
 
With players like those, the message you send is leave the server.  And a PvP server with only 1 faction is not healhty.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I had over 500k renown by the time I leveled to 50. How much more do you need?
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're insinuating that RPers just stop leveling and go into housing at 14th, never to emerge— am I misreading that?
 
As I understand it, going back to the point you made that I'm not buying, you're trying to write-off a large portion of Evindra players based on speculation alone. You're assumptions aren't bad ones to me, but you're still trying to describe how large numbers of players with diverse interests are spending their game time.
 
I'm going to have to review the last few posts though because what exactly is being argued is almost lost to me. :P
----
			
Ok, after a quick review, to get back to your original point Punjoke, and the purpose of my response to it: 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
He's actually got a very good point here. The situation isn't the same at all. I myself am one of the people who actually transferred to Evindra with about a dozen other people while Evindra had people tranferring off. Evindra only survived because people could transfer to it. Nobody can get to Luminai, and that's all they want: for people to be allowed to get there.
----
			
That is exactly what I want, if people had an option to get here I would be really hyped about getting people here and having fun. But as it stands there is not a whole lot I can do for my server.
 
I will stick here until the end, I'm not that bothered. My guild is good, has a great reputation and we plan on doing warplots when drop 3 hits. If we could round enough people up we'll even join in with the one on Oct 29th.
 
And the other issue is, the queues for RBGs is dead otherwise we would be queuing for them daily.
 
Just, I'm in anticipation of drop 3, and I hope it will bring some good things for me which will help me get motivated again to do something about Luminai, because right now I feel a little down about it.
 
But If anyone was interested in rolling an alt here on dominion they are more than welcome to become a Potato. We do lots of stuff c:	
----
			
Okay fine. My argument was that reasons given to people on Luminai as to why their current lack of community is their own fault were wrong, because Luminai can never gain new people, it can only shrink.
 
But I guess all of the NA RPers know better about the status of Luminai than the Euro PvPers. That makes sense. I guess since it doesn't affect you, it's fine to tell them that they're the ones at fault for their population problems instead of supporting their entirely reasonable requests in a show of solidarity, because we're all playing the same game.
 
People have defended every poor management decision Carbine has made to date because it doesn't affect them. If the community continues to refuse to hold them accountable even after the vaunted Megaservers are dying, then whatever.	
----
			No one is blaming anyone. We're just trying to suggest that there are things you can do to help your server grow. Luminai is not powerless.	
----
			
Their character transfer IMO is not a "that bad" decision.  Yes, currently there are plenty of lvl 50 so allowing transfers to a PvP I guess will not made that much of a harm, in the beginning it was locked to prevent people to level the easy way on PvE environment, an then jump here and start pking.
 
But if will also allow the unbalance between factions increase even further if the transfer is opened without restrictions.  For that I suggest doing limited transfers to the smaller faction only.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Okay fine. My argument was that reasons given to people on Luminai as to why their current lack of community is their own fault were wrong, because Luminai can never gain new people, it can only shrink.
 
But I guess all of the NA RPers know better about the status of Luminai than the Euro PvPers. That makes sense. I guess since it doesn't affect you, it's fine to tell them that they're the ones at fault for their population problems instead of supporting their entirely reasonable requests in a show of solidarity, because we're all playing the same game.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Quite a few, but I've got GMs on my rolodex and I tend to be around when they're putting R-12s together in housing/Thayd.
 
I heard the Dominion had it worse, but since becoming GM, I haven't had time to play my Dommy. :(  That was long before megaservers.
----
			
Punjoke, I don't know how you came to the conclusion that we're all blaming you for the situation. I believe Vic was making suggestions to strengthen your community, to use the power that you do have (whatever great or small amount) to do something productive. That's not even necessarily instead of criticizing Carbine; he's just giving advice on one way you can use your energies.
 
When Evindra learned it would lose its server identity, similar advice was given to RPers from within and outside of the community: stay strong, do what YOU can do to improve things. That didn't mean "stfu, it's your fault they're dropping the server". It meant exactly what it says.
 
I've stated repeatedly that I'd like to see a thorough explanation for the one-way policy. I've also said I see no problem with two-way transfers, and that a merge with Jabbit might also help you folks out.
 
Solidarity doesn't mean agreeing with everything a person or people believe. If I did that, I'd just be caught up in the bad side of groupthink. :P	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thank you, this is what I was thinking too.
 
We have no way to grow our population, noone can transfer here. Which is something you guys have over us, the only thing we can do is stay strong and give feedback to carbine. Having some support from the community especially from the old Evindra folk who understand what it's like to be on a low pop server with people disappearing would mean so much to us, we can't get new people in... there is only one way off Luminai now and that is to quit the game. Something a lot of people have probably done or are considering. (Like I said, my guildmates and I feel the same way about drop 3... it's either do or die there)
 
Tonight I mentioned Warplot to my guild and they are really excited to try and get the people for it. Hopefully it will go ahead and Luminai will have a blast. But still... that is a group of 40 people either side, and if we struggle to make numbers for that, it shows how dire the situation here really is.
 
But yes. Transfers are now closed and we are left with a small population. I'm not sure how carbine can say it is "fine" because it does not feel "fine".
All the players are speaking and communicating, hanging out and dueling around the pvp vendors or a couple at the AH. This is dominion side, and Exile is better than we are... 
 
It literally feels like I'm back on Contagion. 
 
But please carbine, even if it's paid and 3 months down the line... please consider transfers from PvE to PvP... 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's sort of the problem, though.  Warhound was technically in the same situation, and they just pulled off an event that brought in two full raids on Exile that were heavily outnumbered by the Dominion.  They were in exactly the same position.  People could transfer off but not transfer back.  Their major guilds stayed, they threw an awesome event that brought their big guilds out in force.
 
If Warhound can do that under the exact same conditions, and according to estimates Lumenai couldn't even put together a 5v5, all things being equal, that would mean Warhound is something like sixteen times the size of Lumenai.  That, or there are factors outside of pure population and transfers to consider.  Sure, Warhound isn't as large as Entity, but they've got their cupcakes together.
 
It may help when Warplots go full puggable when that comes.  Was that drop 3 or 4 when the warplots can form all-merc matches and people in war parties can queue as mercs in other matches?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We have no way to grow our population, noone can transfer here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
All of the small guilds "panic following" made no sense. Sure it made sense once a good few of them had gone, but Olivar's point earlier is true, you'd think the other guilds would be all "ooo, we're the top guild now, people will be struggling to join us, instead of leaving us for more progressed guilds".
 
 
----
			
So 4 days was enough for you to ascertain people wouldn't try and join you? Seriously this is why Luminai died, because noone is patient, everyone wants things NOW. Look at the state of it now. We could have kept luminai quite nicely alive and tight knit if people had have just got through that uncomfortable uncertainty. I did and I DON'T regret it. 
 
Since tfers closed we've had 5 or 6 people join the guild here... and I expect a lot more will come out of the woodwork.
 
I also feel bad for any new players, rolling dom on Luminai, what kind of impression is this going to give them of the game?
 
I want to be proud of my server, not feel ashamed because people are telling me I'm stupid for not moving. (Seriously, so many people telling me I'm stupid and my guild is gonna die).
 
I'm willing to work my arse off for Luminai, but there isn't the population Dom side at least to do anything at the moment...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So 4 days was enough for you to ascertain people wouldn't try and join you? Seriously this is why Luminai died, because noone is patient, everyone wants things NOW. Look at the state of it now. We could have kept luminai quite nicely alive and tight knit if people had have just got through that uncomfortable uncertainty. I did and I DON'T regret it. 
 
Since tfers closed we've had 5 or 6 people join the guild here...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We were actually recruiting for weeks before Codex left, and we were still 6/6 then. Did we get more than 2 applications in those 3 weeks, including the time after Codex left? Nope.
----
			
Not everything is about large guilds transferring.
 
I've been leveling slowly (and rerolled a lot) and am still unguilded (living halfway across the world in a different timezone doesn't help) and just transferred because none of my items were selling on the AH and I was left with no way to make any cash.
 
I've rarely met other players throughout my leveling starting from 1-2 months after launch anyway so pop wasn't an issue. I'm only thinking about doing arenas and how tough it will be to find a partner that I can play with (taking into consideration my odd hours for EU) on a deserted server.
 
Lately I haven't been able to PvP as queues are not popping in my playtime. Love the game but... very few people do apparently.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Of course not. Becuase you're including the time *before* Codex left.
 
Can we know what would have happened if you hadn't all paniced over to Jabbit? No, of course not. Once the dust had settled (like now), if you were the top guild left on Luminai, you'd probably have had plenty of people applying.
 
I'd guess that the guilds moving across had more recruiting spots than there were recruits moving across. The recruits in Jabbit must be spread pretty thin. I already read above that two of the Luminai guild moving across merged, They could have done that here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Of course not. Becuase you're including the time *before* Codex left.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Do I want to enjoy the game I have paid for?" If the answer is yes then you'd have moved to Jabbit.
----
			
Yep, so recruitment would be better for them. But I guess we had less applications on Luminai than Codex, so that was an extra reason for us. We already had 3 great applications on the first 2 days on Jabbit, but it could be just good luck.
 
Agreed, I really hope Drop 3 manages to keep more people interested, I'd love to see this game start growing again.	
----
			
I disagree, I'm still enjoying the game and I stayed on Luminai. The people who left are damning the server more than the people who stayed, there is so much and I mean SO MUCH hate towards the pvp server and I don't understand why? We are going to try to make the best of this situation, and the community, if they were bothered, could support us instead of damning us. 
Using the excuse "but world pvp is sooo much better on jabbit than luminai so whats the point of having the server", it's only better because the whole frickin community jumped ship without a second thought.
 
For me, playing on a PvE server is too weird, and I don't think I wanted to make my guild or I make that adjustment.
 
The amount of childlike messages I have gotten telling me that my guild will die, that I am stupid, that only noobs stayed on Luminai... what does that say about the general population of wildstar? Not a good thing.
 
To my fellow people on luminai, we can make the best of this situation it will just take a while... A loooong while.
 
The one way transfers should NOT HAVE HAPPENED. That is what we're trying to articulate to carbine now. It's destroyed dominion on here, seriously :P 
They really need to reconsider their stance on opening up transfers back, even for a stupid amount of time like a 2 day period. At least then the people who wanted to pvp can at least come back.. :/
 
The only thing I plead to carbine right now is to at least make the ah/cx linked. The prices are already starting to go dodgy.	
----
			
The true pvpers who haven't been on a pve server before are going to seriously regret their one way ticket to pve.
 
I bet once drop 3 hits you'll have a large number of those transfers begging carbine to open up transfers back.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wrong. I don't enjoy mindlessly wandering around a world where my only consideration is predictable PvE mobs. If I want to enjoy the game I paid for I needed to stay on Luminai, so I did. The only drawbacks are:
- a dead AH, but this can be fixed with a cross server one.
- dead zone chat, limiting world PvE content; R12, Blighthaven etc.
----
			
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceBYnzcUrA&list=UUhg9HfiT-DbivZnnMtjPUGw
 
Official answer at 55:35
 
(No transfers)	
----
			
Yeah, basically a copy and pasted (vocal) version of the response in this thread.
 
It's like they don't want to admit there is a problem, and if they are "happy" with it, great... but we sure aint :/
 
There is such a huge difference between looking at numbers on a screen and actually being in game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceBYnzcUrA&list=UUhg9HfiT-DbivZnnMtjPUGw
 
Official answer at 55:35
 
(No transfers)
----
			^ does this look like fine or healthy? Feel free to visit our server, our guilds, our AH. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
^ does this look like fine or healthy? 
Feel free to visit our server, our guilds, our AH. 
----
			How many of the 4 pages are moxie gadgets, Jonssi?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How many of the 4 pages are moxie gadgets, Jonssi?
----
			
NOPE. SERVER IS HEALTHY /flails madly
 
Credd has sky rocketed today. So awesome. GOOD THING I HAVE SOME TO SELL.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How many of the 4 pages are moxie gadgets, Jonssi?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Personally, I feel Drop 3 will define the way forward. Many players will try again in Drop 3. If after Drop 3, WS isn't capable of sustaining one PvP server in the whole of the EU, then the game has bigger problems than Luminai.
----
			Unfilteredhttp://i62.tinypic.com/292w4e0.pngAll 20 gadgets available :)http://i59.tinypic.com/2cifqit.pngAnd here are all the 14 implants on my server :Dhttp://i60.tinypic.com/15s301s.png​And these are our power cores :)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ceBYnzcUrA&list=UUhg9HfiT-DbivZnnMtjPUGw
 
Official answer at 55:35
 
(No transfers)
----
			
There was a bunch of my guild at the pvp vendors like usual. plus about 3 people who were left by other guilds. Thats about 25 people total in illium for that time.
 
I also did a who, and while it's not that reliable, dominion population doesn't seem "healthy" unless they count bots as population in which case, there's probably a bunch of bots taking advantage of the dead megaserver :D	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Awwwww. Did you see Tony's body language? He was squirming as he read the script, and was struggling to look at the camera. I *almost* felt sorry for him.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The true pvpers who haven't been on a pve server before are going to seriously regret their one way ticket to pve.
 
I bet once drop 3 hits you'll have a large number of those transfers begging carbine to open up transfers back.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lmao just saw that. Not sure what they think lying to their players like that will accomplish.
 
I saw on Cougardc twitter that he logged on Luminai and spoke to you guys, how did that go? did he find any players to talk to? if so, did he manage to convince them that they are surrounded with players, they just have to believe and look harder? perhaps use GUNNAR glasses to enhance their image and they will magically appear?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That was on 16th, just when the mega servers hit. The mass migration was in waves. Mostly Friday, Saturday, panic night between Sunday and Monday. So I would say he should visit us again.
----
			We should rename the server and call it POTATO. Because all you see in illium are my lovely potato guildies.  	
----
			
Potato is love,
Potato is life <3	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
free transfers to Jabbit killed Luminai
----
			
sigh.... our CX/AH is completely FUBAR....
 
Wanted to craft me some boosts... ONLY 200 BLOODBRIAR FOR SALE.... oh, and 1 seed.... (not even going to mention all the inflated prices...)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There was a bunch of my guild at the pvp vendors like usual. plus about 3 people who were left by other guilds. Thats about 25 people total in illium for that time.
 
I also did a who, and while it's not that reliable, dominion population doesn't seem "healthy" unless they count bots as population in which case, there's probably a bunch of bots taking advantage of the dead megaserver :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I haven't seen any bot for 1,5 months or so on any of the servers, before and after the Megaservers. That tells me one thing, it's bad when goldsellers/farming bots disappear in that sense since they most likely don't see a profit with the game.
----
			I m not against bot bans, i prefert that than the recent decisions which kill a server ^^"""	
----
			i would prefer some bots on our server, at least our CX will be stocked with mats for crafting :P	
----
			
I wonder if we could make a new stand, by not logging in to Luminai.
Maybe then the live team will deem it dead.	
----
			No way am I not playing my character :/	
----
			
I stopped playing sometimes I log to realise that there are only 4 people in illiumand everyone on my friendlist is on Jabbit.
 
With pain in my hart the wildstar route ends here for me!	
----
			
The thing I'm annoyed about is even the "PvP"ers didn't even stay, they all went really early too!
 
Just... ugh.
 
For anyone interested, we have a Warplot going on 29th October, exile and dominion are more than welcome to join in.
 
We have to show people that the people remaining can still enjoy this game regardless of everyone else being pussies and jumping on the bandwagon to Jabbit.
 
Luminai 4 lyf!	
----
			
Well, I agree with the thread title that the free transfers hurt the server. Cause/effect/blame have been heavily discussed in the 26 pages.
 
We are where we are now, and I'm hoping that Drop 3 will redress the balance a lot. I've decided that I'm going to stop posting in this thread, as it's not a topic that is going to encourage people to play on Luminai. I really want to see more people playing on Luminai.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
We are where we are now, and I'm hoping that Drop 3 will redress the balance a lot. I've decided that I'm going to stop posting in this thread, as it's not a topic that is going to encourage people to play on Luminai. I really want to see more people playing on Luminai.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually Carbine went on crazy bot perma ban runs. Of course bans are bad for business when you need those bots to pay you to stay alive.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The thing I'm annoyed about is even the "PvP"ers didn't even stay, they all went really early too!
 
Just... ugh.
 
For anyone interested, we have a Warplot going on 29th October, exile and dominion are more than welcome to join in.
 
We have to show people that the people remaining can still enjoy this game regardless of everyone else being pussies and jumping on the bandwagon to Jabbit.
 
Luminai 4 lyf!
----
			With these many pages you would think that the 'devs are listening', it's too bad they aren't cause the server (Luminai) is actually really dead. Seeing 3 people on a Friday night says it all.	
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
If being a *cupcake* means that you want to play with people in a realm that has actual economy going on, then yea here is a lot of pussies around.
 
And as I propably said before already, this time I've been in Jabbit, I have done a lot more wPvP than I did in Luminai.
 
Im not saying that this is a good thing, I hate the fact that Luminai died, but really, who likes to play if there is nothing you can buy/sell/do. Cant get a group for 20man world events.
So I really cant consider us who left as a bunch of pussies.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 
No, I disagree.
Most of the main pvp'ers (high rated at least) jumped ship way before the rest of the guilds, because they wanted to take the easy way out without a second thought of what would happen to the server.
 
I don't care if you've done more wpvp on Jabbit, I didn't want to go across to another server, start a new guild, and then see yellows everywhere without even feeling threatened. I wanted to stay on this server, make a proper pvp community (think stormscale/outland/sylvanas on wow) which people would actually REROLL to come join.
 
So yes, you are a bunch of pussies, you couldn't deal with the pve'ers leaving and had to go follow suit instead of holding your guns, laughing at the pve'ers running like sheep and forging a community with the people (or in case of the higher rated people "noobs") who are left.
 
And who says you can't get a 20man for a world boss? You can still do that on Luminai, it just takes more time to get those people.
 
Everyone is so fearful about putting effort into this game. The people remaining are actually organising warplots, events and banding together to make this server still run fine. Just because you were all too scared to stay and be slightly less populated (face it, there are less pvp'ers in this game than pve'ers) makes you pussies.
 
----
			
My statement is whimpering? Hardly, it might be me ranting, but it's also true. 
Yes, I did say that it would be impossible to do a world boss, because transfers were still open at the time and I was speculating.
 
I'm also just responding with the same toxicity I receive from you guys for staying on this server. "Lol ur a noob for staying there" "hahah ur never gonna do anything on that server" "lol your guild sucks thats why you stayed there" is some of the bile that has been thrown at me.
I'm happy I'm here, most of the people (Even the exiles) left over don't even have that attitude, they're more interested in actually playing the game and making a fun server still possible.
 
Now the dust has settled and I have a plan in mind and more of the population are working together, world bosses are possible, warplots are possible, events are possible.	
----