123520-i-came-back-after-6-months-the-state-of-this-game-is-sad

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			I played Closed AND open beta, i had i lvl 50 stalker and lvl 40 esper in beta, and a lvl 50 stalker and lvl38 after release, so ive spend a lot of time playing it. I LOVED the dungeons and the pvp in this game. I honestly dont understand why people stopped playing it since it was so fun, im doing an attempt to start playing it again but exactly like 6 months ago i find it so deppresing that the servers are empty that i just cant find the motivation to play it. I wish there could be something like a good marketing campaing etc. to bring people back.	
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Are you on Warhound by chance? If you are, take the free transfer to entity.
 
Somewhat ironic you don't understand why people stopped playing wildstar while you yourself stopped playing wildstar. 
 
Regardless welcome back, it's great to have another face	
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Welcome back! :D
 
As Evade has already mentioned, if you are trying to play on Warhound, be forewarned, it has a much, much lower population than Entity. (I play on both)
 
If low populations bother you, (as it sounds like they do) I recommend taking the free transfer. Entity is doing quite well for population. :)	
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Are you on Warhound by chance? If you are, take the free transfer to entity.
 
Somewhat ironic you don't understand why people stopped playing wildstar while you yourself stopped playing wildstar.
 
Regardless welcome back, it's great to have another face
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     The game has had some great fixes with drop 4, and drop 5, the PvP drop, seems to be coming in the next week or so I think.  Even though I don't think there are as many people in the leveling zones as there were at launch I can't imagine ANY game has that sort of retention.  People have leveled thier main and only feel the need to level one other toon at the most probably.
     I've seen plenty of people to group up with in the lower (20-30) level areas.  They are there, but most just zip by the areas and solo and move to the next one.
 
     I do hope they fix the que system.  Getting a group for a shiphand is easy in the lower levels but adventures and dungeons takes alot of time If you just 'Que and Quest' like I do.	
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			Im on the american pve server, and in algoroc (I think thats how its spelled) their are usually 5 or 4 people questing around, sometimes in one area. When I went to thayd yesterday it had tons of people. Not sure what you consider a lot of people in a questing area, but 5 or 4 is a good amount in my opinion.	
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Definitely take that free transfer to entity before you make your final decision. Also join the EntityLFM channel. It's easy finding groups for content, and I see people around ilium (I'm dominion) all the time! And apparently exiles are even more crowded (hard to imagine, I feel like I see so many people in ilium).
 
It's a fun game and you can still find people to pvp with on the PvE server. Right now all I do at 50 is pvp and I have no issues getting premades for BGs or just queueing solo.	
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			Warhound may be empty, entity is bustling though. Thinking they need to just remove warhound for awhile and direct people instantly to entity as the true megaserver till they can get enough players that they think a push for transfers to warhound may work.It's keeping this negative "is the game dead?" discussion going far longer than it should be.	
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Warhound may be empty, entity is bustling though. Thinking they need to just remove warhound for awhile and direct people instantly to entity as the true megaserver till they can get enough players that they think a push for transfers to warhound may work.
 
It's keeping this negative "is the game dead?" discussion going far longer than it should be.
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			I swear someone is paying people to make ludicrous statements like this post.I am having such a blast in WS every day. 	
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I said i left because i didnt like the fact that the game wasnt as populated as at realease.  :)
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There was once a time when you had to wait an hour in queue in order to get into game :(
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The PvE servers are more densely populated than serveres were at release
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There was once a time when you had to wait an hour in queue in order to get into game :(
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			I was seeing 40 second queue times as DPS earlier today. Not sure what your measurement of "dead" is, but that seems pretty active to me.	
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As a returning player on the 10 day pass, I decided to start a new character since I'd really lost touch with my old ones and most of the people I played with back then left as well.
 
Going through the starter zones, multiple times since I couldn't make up my damn mind, I was surprised to constantly see 3-5 people around me. Even on the Arkship. Granted, this was on Entity during prime time. Thayd was bustling and well populated. Definitely an improvement over pre-server merge.
 
IF Carbine can keep the good Drops coming, I think a good chunk of players like myself will nose back in. A great chance to carve a comfortable niche out of the MMO landscape.	
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I played Closed AND open beta, i had i lvl 50 stalker and lvl 40 esper in beta, and a lvl 50 stalker and lvl38 after release, so ive spend a lot of time playing it. I LOVED the dungeons and the pvp in this game. I honestly dont understand why people stopped playing it since it was so fun, im doing an attempt to start playing it again but exactly like 6 months ago i find it so deppresing that the servers are empty that i just cant find the motivation to play it. I wish there could be something like a good marketing campaing etc. to bring people back.
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I swear someone is paying people to make ludicrous statements like this post.I am having such a blast in WS every day. 
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or they ended up on the two out of four servers that don't have an economy or a population: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoU0DP0S8sU
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So use the free transfer. A lot of PvP guilds did this while Carbine works on Drop 5.
 
The PTR is open, but it looks to me as if the totality of the Drop is not up and running yet. Drop 5 gives love to the Pvpers from what I understand. 
 
Drop 4 was brilliant and I'm hopeful that Drop 5 will be just as good.
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Actually, that videos points out why we had to move off the server, we weren't bothered about it being empty, but that auction house and CX.... /shudder
 
Moving to Jabbit was like night and day difference. Something needs to be done, and I still agree with that sentiment. I WANT to go back to luminai.
 
I run around with my pvp flag on and noone has attacked me yet :( (But some exile asswipe stole my quest items, repeatedly and laughed at me... AND I COULDNT BEAT THEM UP /cry)
 
But Jabbit is VERY populated, it's so plain to see that everyone steamrolled their way into that server and are all squished in together on there.	
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Actually, that videos points out why we had to move off the server, we weren't bothered about it being empty, but that auction house and CX.... /shudder
 
Moving to Jabbit was like night and day difference. Something needs to be done, and I still agree with that sentiment. I WANT to go back to luminai.
 
I run around with my pvp flag on and noone has attacked me yet :( (But some exile asswipe stole my quest items, repeatedly and laughed at me... AND I COULDNT BEAT THEM UP /cry)
 
But Jabbit is VERY populated, it's so plain to see that everyone steamrolled their way into that server and are all squished in together on there.
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So use the free transfer. A lot of PvP guilds did this while Carbine works on Drop 5.
 
The PTR is open, but it looks to me as if the totality of the Drop is not up and running yet. Drop 5 gives love to the Pvpers from what I understand. 
 
Drop 4 was brilliant and I'm hopeful that Drop 5 will be just as good.
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my point is, you use the free trial as a returning or a new player and now 50/50 chance that you are here. You see absolutely nobody. Now your further course of action is:
"go to the forums to be told that you're on the wrong server, then come back and transfer yourself"
"conclude that the game for all intents and purposes is dead"
my guild has transferred over to Jabbit a long time ago, while I simply moved on as that server handling left a bad taste in my mouth. It still irks me though that very obviously people hit these servers and then are called liars when they say that the game is dead, while quite simply there's no indication anywhere that their course of action was supposed to be to choose the other server. And for the purposes of raising the population, these servers being left open like that with no warnings or anything is just driving people away.
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No, that's usually the very first question out of people's mouths.  "Are you on Warhound/Luminae?"
 
If you're advocating closing the PVP servers, I'd probably hold off on that.  If the new LV stuff is any indication, they may be working to revitalize, rather than erase, the PVP servers.
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From the "Save Warhound" thread:
 
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Ordo plans on transferring back as soon as there's a reason to (or lack of negative reasons like no AH or players) as do a good few others I imagine. With free server transfers and an alt to hold the old guild open, whenever that time comes we'll return to warhound with full buffs again. It'll be awhile though as they don't have the resources for improving the server so instead are focusing on bg, arenas, and warplots.
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i'd rather they just keep the pve server... if people start to split between servers again, it'll be even more dead.
 
they can reopen the pvp server when they go f2p/b2p since as a sub game they will never have the numbers to have both server packed with people.	
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if these people end up on the forums even. And then if these people stick around after making the topic. Starting the free trials with absolutely no visible indication (no high/ low pop meters even) that you shouldn't be trying the game on one out of two servers will be doing a disservice to this game.
 
And all I'm saying is that this situation is not okay. And it should be viewed as not okay. This is not the experience that your returnees and new players should see. It's bad enough that it is as it is and even worse that the way it is will be driving people away.
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No one's saying the PVP servers are okay.  Everyone's saying that the game's not dead.  Which is also true, the game is not dead.  I'm not sure how in-favor I am of kicking the remaining Warhounders and Luminae fanatics off their servers and enforcing their refugee status.  It also wouldn't help if Carbine does drop something into the game to help, like merging the CX/AH/CREDD servers.
 
I see your point, I'm just saying that I'm not sure the cure you're prescribing isn't going to amputate the patient.
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No one's saying the PVP servers are okay.  Everyone's saying that the game's not dead.  Which is also true, the game is not dead.  I'm not sure how in-favor I am of kicking the remaining Warhounders and Luminae fanatics off their servers and enforcing their refugee status.  It also wouldn't help if Carbine does drop something into the game to help, like merging the CX/AH/CREDD servers.
 
I see your point, I'm just saying that I'm not sure the cure you're prescribing isn't going to amputate the patient.
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The game is not dead. Just not really healthy (1/2 servers a region dead is not really healthy) and at the same time it will leave the impression of being dead on anyone that will end up on those servers. Luminai has been like this for at least 4-5 months now. Normally majority of people simply wouldn't get to see it, however now with free transfers open a lot of people that would be interested in the game will see it. If you're not going to remove it, at least tag it. With making pretty much no profit in the last quarter and Ncsoft at best giving new games 1 to 2 years to fix themselves, Wildstar has barely any time to get people playing or face the fate of Tabula Rasa. Allowing people to see the part of the game that would make them think that it's dead is not a good way to attract population. So yes, while people might restore the server, right now it's a huge problem. 
 
It also doesn't help that those that do come to the forums will be faced by negativity. Like the comment that I originally quoted. "People are payed to say that the game is dead". That is not how you encourage people to stay.
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both will do the trick. But if you are in that low percentage that did come to the forums and stuck out to even respond a few times hearing that you're payed to say something won't help.
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forum's negativity won't change a thing for new players.
no dungeon/pvp/adventure pops and nobody to tackle multi player quests in most zones will do the trick.
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forum's negativity won't change a thing for new players.
no dungeon/pvp/adventure pops and nobody to tackle multi player quests in most zones will do the trick.
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you know what we should do ? force every new players to auto join the BLAZING SADDLES. this way they will see how the game is rolling.
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I don't have these issues on Jabbit.
 
Not sure how it is on NA but quueing for random vets is fine here...
 
bg pops very often since the patch.
 
You are just extremely pessimistic, not even realistic. 
 
They DO pop, just not as often as you would like them to for a "popular game"
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no issue! new players SHOULD join the blazing saddles so they have a good experience with the game.
 
i see that as being positive.
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What's your problem Avatar? All I see is negativity from you. Try to find something you like about the game and make a POSITIVE post on it, then see how you feel.
 
Blazing Saddles is a positive guild. Is that the issue?
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			Merging the AH/CX and CREDD exchanges for both servers in each region would help I think.	
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Your other post seemed a bit hostile to me. Maybe the wording of it? So, I apologize for shooting at you  :P
 
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
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I don't have these issues on Jabbit.
 
Not sure how it is on NA but quueing for random vets is fine here...
 
bg pops very often since the patch.
 
You are just extremely pessimistic, not even realistic. 
 
They DO pop, just not as often as you would like them to for a "popular game"
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i might be negative here on the forums, i do that with things I love. (i said THINGS).
outside of this forum i am a total white knight fanboy. (hard to believe maybe, but it is true).
 
so yeah, we just wash our dirty cloth within the family ;)
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I don't have these issues on Jabbit.
 
Not sure how it is on NA but quueing for random vets is fine here...
 
bg pops very often since the patch.
 
You are just extremely pessimistic, not even realistic. 
 
They DO pop, just not as often as you would like them to for a "popular game"
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you know what we should do ? force every new players to auto join the BLAZING SADDLES. this way they will see how the game is rolling.
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Or OTG....
 
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REPRESENT!!!  :D  :D  :lol:  :lol:
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I didn't forget about you guys! :D  When a lot of guilds were waffling, you guys carried that banner on the Dominion.  I still send you people when I see them asking for a good guild on Domside Entity.
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			OP here. Aparently this thread has become center of discussion for some people. let me clarify something. i love this game. i stopped playing because shortly after launch there was nobody, seriously i tried many guilds,there was nobody to play with that could actually go trough atunement and thus we all gave up. NOW im coming back to see whats going on, the reason i find the state of the game sad, is because, lets be honest, the game has low pop, very low, no matter how biased you are NCsoft earnings proves that, you cant defend the argument of population, you cant. THE REASON this is sad is because the game HAS BECOME GOOD after drop 4, is just that is OBVIOUS that funds are not available to advertise the game any more. And no matter HOW MUCH BETTER the game gets, advertisement now days is the key to succesfull games, Destiny, a very average game, not bad but neither good, sold millions of copies, they spend more on Ads than in development. YOU SHOULD NOT expect people to get back to the game if you dont advertise it, there is no way this will ever happen. People with more knowledge on marketing will be able to explain that better to you, im not being negative, im just being realistic for a game that i like.	
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OP here. Aparently this thread has become center of discussion for some people. let me clarify something. i love this game. i stopped playing because shortly after launch there was nobody, seriously i tried many guilds,there was nobody to play with that could actually go trough atunement and thus we all gave up. NOW im coming back to see whats going on, the reason i find the state of the game sad, is because, lets be honest, the game has low pop, very low, no matter how biased you are NCsoft earnings proves that, you cant defend the argument of population, you cant. THE REASON this is sad is because the game HAS BECOME GOOD after drop 4, is just that is OBVIOUS that funds are not available to advertise the game any more. And no matter HOW MUCH BETTER the game gets, advertisement now days is the key to succesfull games, Destiny, a very average game, not bad but neither good, sold millions of copies, they spend more on Ads than in development. YOU SHOULD NOT expect people to get back to the game if you dont advertise it, there is no way this will ever happen. People with more knowledge on marketing will be able to explain that better to you, im not being negative, im just being realistic for a game that i like.
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The best advertising is word of mouth. Not some stupid banner on Curse.com.
 
You like the game and want it to succeed? Then log on, transfer to Entity or Jabbit, start playing it and whenever you find yourself on gaming website forums like MassivelyOP.net, make sure to tell people how much you enjoy Wildstar
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Sorry but you dont use any logic in your comment, word of mouth rarely ever made a game popular, that was in occasions that the game was something very revoluntary that people got hooked only by hearing about it, like minecraft for example. I like the game but you people have to stop thinking as die hard fans and hope that the game will do well just by showing how YOU like playing it, we live in an age that if you want something to get popular you have to advertise. sorry buddy, not mean to be rude but you have to think smarter than that
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How do I know Guildwars 2 and EVE are doing so well? It's not because of ads... its cause their player base is always talking about it.
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Sorry but you dont use any logic in your comment, word of mouth rarely ever made a game popular, that was in occasions that the game was something very revoluntary that people got hooked only by hearing about it, like minecraft for example. I like the game but you people have to stop thinking as die hard fans and hope that the game will do well just by showing how YOU like playing it, we live in an age that if you want something to get popular you have to advertise. sorry buddy, not mean to be rude but you have to think smarter than that
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you are partially right, however, you underestimate the power of good word of mouth.
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OP here. Aparently this thread has become center of discussion for some people. let me clarify something. i love this game. i stopped playing because shortly after launch there was nobody, seriously i tried many guilds,there was nobody to play with that could actually go trough atunement and thus we all gave up. NOW im coming back to see whats going on, the reason i find the state of the game sad, is because, lets be honest, the game has low pop, very low, no matter how biased you are NCsoft earnings proves that, you cant defend the argument of population, you cant. THE REASON this is sad is because the game HAS BECOME GOOD after drop 4, is just that is OBVIOUS that funds are not available to advertise the game any more. And no matter HOW MUCH BETTER the game gets, advertisement now days is the key to succesfull games, Destiny, a very average game, not bad but neither good, sold millions of copies, they spend more on Ads than in development. YOU SHOULD NOT expect people to get back to the game if you dont advertise it, there is no way this will ever happen. People with more knowledge on marketing will be able to explain that better to you, im not being negative, im just being realistic for a game that i like.
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Sorry but you dont use any logic in your comment, word of mouth rarely ever made a game popular, that was in occasions that the game was something very revoluntary that people got hooked only by hearing about it, like minecraft for example. I like the game but you people have to stop thinking as die hard fans and hope that the game will do well just by showing how YOU like playing it, we live in an age that if you want something to get popular you have to advertise. sorry buddy, not mean to be rude but you have to think smarter than that
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SO let me get this straight, you like the game but won't play it because it's not popular enough in the public eye? Do you feel shameful to play something you like?
 
If you go on the two most populated servers it's bustling :/ If you're unlucky enough to log to warhound/luminai then... yeah :(  I think we can all agree the state of that...
 
It might not have the highest player base for an mmo by any rates, but that doesn't mean it's unplayable or unenjoyable.
 
I'm sure carbine will begin an advertisement push when THEY are happy with the state of their game. As it is now, it has a big enough fan base and players (by big I mean, big enough for carbine :P) for them to keep developing content and leave it to word of mouth to bring more dedicated players in.
 
If they did a huge advertising push before everything was peachy, it would end badly for the game. If they start advertisement campaign for drop 5 and it hits as perfectly as 4 I can see a lot of people being interested in playing...	
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its the same game from release, not much has changed other then server consolidations which is expected after the rush of new players.
 
Most online games have only a small handful of servers. Wildstar only increased theirs to cater to the large amounts of subs during launch. Foolish to think it would remain lol.	
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its the same game from release, not much has changed other then server consolidations which is expected after the rush of new players.
 
Most online games have only a small handful of servers. Wildstar only increased theirs to cater to the large amounts of subs during launch. Foolish to think it would remain lol.
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People who say this also severely underestimate the power of good advertising.
 
HoN was out before League or Dota 2, had good word of mouth; solid game.  No advertising whatsoever.  Look what good that did them.
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That being said... i have over 107 days played in wildstar and i still log on and have a great time, but thats because i know where the actual value in games lie....... with the people you enjoy playing them with.~
 
Ever play a board game solo? how fun is that? well besides mousetrap.
Ever play a boardgame with people you dont like?
Now compare those experiences to playing boardgames with people you do like........ Can you feel the difference yet?
Hell even if you do horribly and your playing a game with people you do like your going to have a good time losing, even though you'd have a better time winning.
 
I hope this analogy works for you, as well as some others that have lost sight of where the real value in playing games is found.
			
				
	Edited March 15, 2015 by BusterCasey	
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Ever play a board game solo? how fun is that? well besides mousetrap.
 
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			i thought mirta quit	
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i thought mirta quit
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lol for one.... you completely missed my analogy.
The majority of the population of entity is not necessarily close knit but for the most part we all know each other and enjoy playing with each other, that plus the superior gameplay that wildstar offers (outside of pvp anyways) is in my opinion better than any other game currently out.
Second... population doesnt determine if a game dies or not... the profit the game generates does.......... if you have a game that only 3 people play and still generates enough profit for ncsoft  you think they are just gonna kill it?
 
And when i said boardgames i literally ment boardgames.... not the version you see on media devices... the physical aspect of board games is what brings people together........ you cant see someone smile when they get that monopoly on boardwalk, they cant see how you react when you land on that monopoly these interactions are very important. Not having them seriously detracts from any game experience. We have a semblance of that with voice comms but it doesnt even come close in comparison to the above. I kinda miss the old school LAN parties for these reasons.
 
Also it seems you didnt heed any of the advice about switching to entity so the lack of population is your own fault~ So I'm gonna treat any further words from you as trolling.	
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lol for one.... you completely missed my analogy.
The majority of the population of entity is not necessarily close knit but for the most part we all know each other and enjoy playing with each other, that plus the superior gameplay that wildstar offers (outside of pvp anyways) is in my opinion better than any other game currently out.
Second... population doesnt determine if a game dies or not... the profit the game generates does.......... if you have a game that only 3 people play and still generates enough profit for ncsoft  you think they are just gonna kill it?
 
And when i said boardgames i literally ment boardgames.... not the version you see on media devices... the physical aspect of board games is what brings people together........ you cant see someone smile when they get that monopoly on boardwalk, they cant see how you react when you land on that monopoly these interactions are very important. Not having them seriously detracts from any boardgame experience. We have a semblance of that with voice comms but it doesnt even come close in comparison to the above. I kinda miss the old school LAN parties for these reasons.
 
Also it seems you didnt heed any of the advice about switching to entity so the lack of population is your own fault~ So I'm gonna treat any further words from you as trolling.
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Also it seems you didnt heed any of the advice about switching to entity so the lack of population is your own fault~ So I'm gonna treat any further words from you as trolling.
 
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Mirta, I can understand you're frustrated over luminai. So am I,  I am still extremely frustrated.
 
But instead of holding a grudge, my love of the game brought me back and I put my wants aside for 5 seconds and moved to the pve server. I always said I would not, it's not my style bla bla bla... but the difference, just... I can see why I wanted to quit on lumi, on jabbit it makes me want to carry on playing.
If you went and looked on Jabbit you can tell the whole population on EU is shoehorned there, it's absolutely packed...
 
It's not low population, carbine just shot themselves in the foot regarding transfers and they NEED to fix it.
 
I miss my home, and I want a pvp ruleset. By all means keep letting people know about Lumi, I want you to, but don't lie and say the game is dying... because it is by no means dying. It's just the pvp servers that have been kiled, and that is a huge huge problem.	
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im sorry but when you go on about lack of population and a solution is offered to you and you dont take it and you continue to go on about the lack of population your completely disregarding the valuable and pertinent information that will help you have a more enjoyable wildstar experience. No one had to tell you that moving to entity would show you a larger population than the server your currently on, but people did because they want you to enjoy the game as well. To not listen to that advice and just stubbornly continue to complain without even trying what people have suggested is ignorant......I think that is the right term.
 
Anyone that writes a Wildstar sucks/gonna die/is disappointing topic and doesnt try the suggestions that are laid out for them is a troll. If they honestly didnt enjoy the gameplay why write on the forums at all? Attention is the answer your looking for.
 
Anyways I'm done responding to this topic that doesn't seem to benefit anyone and I'm going to logon to wildstar and enjoy playing it with my pseudo friends~	
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im sorry but when you go on about lack of population and a solution is offered to you and you dont take it and you continue to go on about the lack of population your completely disregarding the valuable and pertinent information that will help you have a more enjoyable wildstar experience. No one had to tell you that moving to entity would show you a larger population than the server your currently on, but people did because they want you to enjoy the game as well. To not listen to that advice and just stubbornly continue to complain without even trying what people have suggested is ignorant......I think that is the right term.
 
Anyone that writes a Wildstar sucks/gonna die/is disappointing topic and doesnt try the suggestions that are laid out for them is a troll. If they honestly didnt enjoy the gameplay why write on the forums at all? Attention is the answer your looking for.
 
Anyways I'm done responding to this topic that doesn't seem to benefit anyone and I'm going to logon to wildstar and enjoy playing it with my pseudo friends~
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im sorry but when you go on about lack of population and a solution is offered to you and you dont take it and you continue to go on about the lack of population your completely disregarding the valuable and pertinent information that will help you have a more enjoyable wildstar experience. No one had to tell you that moving to entity would show you a larger population than the server your currently on, but people did because they want you to enjoy the game as well. To not listen to that advice and just stubbornly continue to complain without even trying what people have suggested is ignorant......I think that is the right term.
 
Anyone that writes a Wildstar sucks/gonna die/is disappointing topic and doesnt try the suggestions that are laid out for them is a troll. If they honestly didnt enjoy the gameplay why write on the forums at all? Attention is the answer your looking for.
 
Anyways I'm done responding to this topic that doesn't seem to benefit anyone and I'm going to logon to wildstar and enjoy playing it with my pseudo friends~
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			There is a real problem with the pvp servers that carbine need to address. I don't care if THEY think the population of those servers "are healthy" they are obviously not to players.	
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1 out of 2 servers on both sides of the world is dead. What does that tell you? What does the profit report tell you? That the game is just overflowing with life? It's nice that there's enough population to fill the one remaining server on both sides. Really. Because if there wasn't even that then it would be the deadest MMO in MMO history.
 
And I did give suggestions. The game NEEDS people. Free trials are great. The fact that people can still free trial on the completely and utterly dead server is not. 90% of people that test out the game on Luminai or Warhound what do you think they do? They leave. Why do those servers staying open is a good thing in any way shape or form?
 
The reason why I even used the only free days that people even get is because seeing this on the forums constantly makes me really angry. People come in from the dead servers and conclude that the game is dead. What does that lead to? A discussion about what should change or what should be done with the servers? No, they're driven away by the community that is absolutely sure that they are trolling or purposively leave these messages. 
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{| class="blockquote"
The game is fine. The game is profitable. It will be thriving.
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{| class="blockquote"
The game is fine. The game is profitable. It will be thriving.
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{| class="blockquote"
You also predicted that Carbine would never make raid attunement easier, merge servers or drop the 40-man raid to 20. Now I'm even more afraid for the future of WildStar than ever. ;)
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{| class="blockquote"
The game is fine. The game is profitable. It will be thriving.
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			Lethality has moved the goalposts so far he's out of the stadium. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Raid attunement isn't easier, there is less to do, the servers moved to megaservers, not merged. And the raid change is a mistake. Where has it helped?
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{| class="blockquote"
Dropping the dungeon requirement to Bronze instead of Silver made attunement easier. The move to megaservers was a merge prompted by the unexpected and drastic drop-off in populations across most servers. Focusing on 40-man raids for launch at the expense of other elder game content was a mistake, and probably the most costly one, in terms of loss of players.
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WildStar is a victim of a scary trend in which *players* are the problem. Not the game.
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{| class="blockquote"
*tinned laughter*
 
I suppose next you'll be telling us that WildStar is the perfect mmo that the world just isn't ready for lol.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
WildStar is a victim of a scary trend in which *players* are the problem. Not the game.
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That mantra makes me cringe every time I see you type it, Lethality. 
 
There's nothing in this world, people, markets, products, that don't need to change or adapt. This baffling adherence to the "original design" of this game, which you read about 3 years ago and were born almost 10 years ago, can really only say one thing: you don't "like" the necessary changes, and you're lashing out. Ever roll your eyes at an old, bitter person upset about the march of progress? Yeah. 	
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The thing is, 
 
he is right to some extend.
From the day these forums have been opened until now, there have been alwazs the same recurring topics comming on a 2 weekly basis.
We even had a topic somewhere in the Offtopic section where we tracked the "popular" topics as they flooded the main page.
Often these topics were:
 
When does this go F2P
Server Imbalance
Advertising
Toxicity and Trolls
PvP
Always the same topics being recycled, sometimes even copz and pasted from other forums, not even changing the Publisher or Game Title.
Many times, discussions were started about the topics themselves, but they did not lead to anything usefull.
So yes, I can sympathize that a part of the problem is us players (noticed, how I used "us"?)
 
Another part lies with Carbine.
Look at it anyway you want, but if you look at the recent changes that have been added to the game, and the discussion from back during beta, it's obvious that mistakes were made.
Many of the things we had now were alreadz addressed and asked for during the beta development cycles, because they are simply mandatory for the game to function properly.
I am happy they are finally added to the game, and that Carbine listens, but on the other side it has taken too long.
 
Another part lies with NCsoft.
The recent connection issues and no marketing is definitely 2 of the major issues that need to be addressed by NCSoft as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, I personally do not have any high hopes for this.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
That mantra makes me cringe every time I see you type it, Lethality. 
 
There's nothing in this world, people, markets, products, that don't need to change or adapt. This baffling adherence to the "original design" of this game, which you read about 3 years ago and were born almost 10 years ago, can really only say one thing: you don't "like" the necessary changes, and you're lashing out. Ever roll your eyes at an old, bitter person upset about the march of progress? Yeah. 
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{| class="blockquote"
lethality you are priceless :D but not in a good way.
 
The only thing Wildstar was a victim of was its own HARDCORE mentality. Carbine reaped what they sowed and now they are moving further and further away from that in an attempt to save the game.
 
That is in no way the players fault.  Your HARDCORE failed. come down and touch base with reality sometime and you will see it for yourself
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{| class="blockquote"
No game is perfect.
But then again, your F2P wining ain't the solution we need or want either.
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Don't fight it, embrace the change Olly, and make it easier on yourself.
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Change will do nothing except push dedicated players away. Players that are here because the like the game.
 
The players that already hate the game? There aren't ever going to be enough changes to satisfy them anyway. And if they're so fickle, it's not even worth trying.
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To be fair, he has a point.
 
No matter how much carbine change the game, the pay system, the servers... anything, there are still going to be people who are unhappy and whining for change. That's the beauty of opinion and free speech :)
 
It's not any different in any game community.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Don't fight it, embrace the change Olly, and make it easier on yourself.
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I won't
I've worked 5 years in the Free 2 Play business.
I have my reasons why I do not want to be part of this business model.
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I'll try not to derail the thread anyfurther with it, but I'll leave you with this. WildStar could work really well with a b2p hybrid model (hybrid as in players could pay a sub for access to raids, more housing items and the ability to carry more gold, +xp etc..) with the usual lucky dip boxes/keys/whatever that every other mmo of that type has. The current players would stay subbed since the majority of them atm are the raiders or people that are interested in the game enough to, whereas the servers would fill up with casual players that are scared off by the sub, which would mean more players to level with, more players to pvp with and just more fun all round. I'm pretty certain it's going to happen at this point anyway.
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{| class="blockquote"
Letting less skilled people into the raids was not Carbine's finest hour either.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'll try not to derail the thread anyfurther with it, but I'll leave you with this. WildStar could work really well with a b2p hybrid model (hybrid as in players could pay a sub for access to raids, more housing items and the ability to carry more gold, +xp etc..) with the usual lucky dip boxes/keys/whatever that every other mmo of that type has. The current players would stay subbed since the majority of them atm are the raiders or people that are interested in the game enough to, whereas the servers would fill up with casual players that are scared off by the sub, which would mean more players to level with, more players to pvp with and just more fun all round. I'm pretty certain it's going to happen at this point anyway.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Subscription or nothing.
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{| class="blockquote"
I won't
I've worked 5 years in the Free 2 Play business.
I have my reasons why I do not want to be part of this business model.
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they're making a livelihood for 200 plus families
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			I left too shortly after reaching 50 due to player base drop. I'm back too after player base resurgence. Think some people left management...perhaps people with divided loyalties (just a hunch). I'm bearing with the improvements this time and am so glad people are returning + server merge. This game is just too awesome not to thrive...so glad it survived a rough launch. I must confess I was bitterly disappointed with the initial bugs/optimization problems and plenty of my posts reflected that. It's just really great that a game such as this and GW2 can really retain a good crowd cuz warcrack just plain kills :P and ruins culture through whoredom to the point where it's just not enjoyable anymore (imo). I would definitely support/pay a sub still. Don't know the business ideas currently though. Really hope devs simplify quest tracker/datachron glitch as I see this, though seemingly simple, slowing down that flowing feel while leveling and could deter returning players.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Anyone who's that practical and wants to support their family above all else should not enter the world of game development.
 
When video games go hard business and income development, chances are good it's because some business graduate who doesn't give a shit about gameplay is calling the shots. I don't know many gamers who would approve of that direction or accept it as a positive way forward for the medium.
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{| class="blockquote"
I left too shortly after reaching 50 due to player base drop. I'm back too after player base resurgence. Think some people left management...perhaps people with divided loyalties (just a hunch). I'm bearing with the improvements this time and am so glad people are returning + server merge. This game is just too awesome not to thrive...so glad it survived a rough launch. I must confess I was bitterly disappointed with the initial bugs/optimization problems and plenty of my posts reflected that. It's just really great that a game such as this and GW2 can really retain a good crowd cuz warcrack just plain kills :P and ruins culture through whoredom to the point where it's just not enjoyable anymore (imo). I would definitely support/pay a sub still. Don't know the business ideas currently though. Really hope devs simplify quest tracker/datachron glitch as I see this, though seemingly simple, slowing down that flowing feel while leveling and could deter returning players.
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{| class="blockquote"
From what I've seen, they're not going the F2P/B2P route.  They're working on the subscription route (with a new free trial, the chop shop costing only in-game money, etc.)
 
Of course, they have the CREDD system.  If they want, they can simply add a lot more items that cost a ridiculous amount of plat (and can only be bought exclusively from vendors) and can essentially ninja-in a kind of psuedo-B2P.  Since they're making things more available through game currencies like prestige, renown, and glory, it doesn't look like they're going that route either right now.  So it looks like between CREDD and subs, they're doing alright for themselves enough to push the model they've got.
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{| class="blockquote"
From what i've seen, they will go f2p (or hybrid)
there is no way they can save it at this point.
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{| class="blockquote"
Really?
 
This was the costume contest last night.
 
Just a costume contest.
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{| class="blockquote"
lol at the 30 players for your monthly event.
you almost have enough for a warplot!
oh wait... dommies don't have enough.
 
jeez, get on with the program Vic...
gw2 have more players that that ALL THE TIME, sitting around the mystic toilet. and that is on 1 of their... 15 servers ?
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			The financial reports regularly show GW2 out-earning WS more than four times over.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The financial reports regularly show GW2 out-earning WS more than four times over.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's an older game, and, as has been said, they're rebuilding Wildstar.
 
No point in making another game on the Guild Wars 2 payment model if that's their audience, though.  Remember, NCSoft already makes money from GW2.  If Wildstar makes money by taking GW2 money, NCSoft makes no money.  It's very possible that the game could go F2P and make more money personally, and be a huge financial failure for NCSoft because it eats their profit from other games and loses people who won't play an F2P game.
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{| class="blockquote"
well last quarter looked very grim for Wildstar. It has around 1.5 years at best to turn profitable. I don't think that Ncsoft will give it more than that. And while F2P can be a failure too, the game is almost at the stage where it should try anything to stay alive. Personally would prefer anything over the game's death. But I suppose the developers want to stay proud and true to their vision.
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Well, like I've said in other places, if NCSoft has too many F2P games out, they compete with each other, not with the rest of the market.  That makes NCSoft no money.
 
Luckily, the last quarter ended before the release of Drop 4, which has significantly improved numbers (and CREDD sales).  Hell, I'd say Wildstar doesn't even have to make GW2 money, they just have to do better than Lineage 2, which I assume they can pull off in the current climate.  Good content drops and correspondingly good word of mouth will bring people back.  You can see all the returning players already since then.
 
The biggest gap they have is PVP since those people don't have as much reason to return yet.  PBGs are firing at 50, but they might need to do a lot more than that before they can bring the PVP population back en masse.
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I don't understand why people come on these forums and try to convince people NOT TO PLAY THE GAME, are you really helping the wildstar in any way? 
 
Lets be realistic here, 2 of the servers are dead, wildstar went through some issues inbetween drop 3 and 4, but things are improving slowly. SLOWLY. 
It may not seem like a lot to people who are constantly hammering on the game saying "its going free to play", "they can't survive anymore", "omg game is ded" but if you actually have been playing and keeping an eye on people's attitudes in the game, it's actually quite positive.
It is nowhere near as bad as people are making out on the servers that are populated. The two dead servers are proof that carbine screwed up big time, but we have to give them a chance (and time) to fix the mistakes they made.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wasn't Lineage making like insane amounts of money? 
 
It would probably be enough if Wildstar won't be in the minus. Though I don't know how happy Ncsoft would be if it was profit, but low profit.
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			NCSoft probably wants to avoid the fiasco that was Ford-Mercury-Saturn.  As they say, "Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it".	
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{| class="blockquote"
NCSoft probably wants to avoid the fiasco that was Ford-Mercury-Saturn.  As they say, "Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to repeat it".
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{| class="blockquote"
Business people are really good at not learning. I can't say that the Daewoo Securities predictions fill me with any warm feelings. As a player, I think the game has the potential to do well if we can bring back a good chunk of population. Going free to play is not how this needs, or should be done. Doing so will just generate a large mass of anti-publicity. Ever hear of ToRtanic, they seem to be doing well but that blackmark is what people remember.  
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{| class="blockquote"
There is literally nothing good said about this game outside this forum. Every youtube video uploaded, every news article that manages to come out, the top comment is "Dead game stay dead," or "Just go F2P." If you're worried that there will be a large mass of anti-publicity, well, we're already there.
 
Word of mouth only goes so far. 10 day trials are a good start, but they poison their own water when people choose the PVP server without knowing that it's tumbleweed central.
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{| class="blockquote"
There is literally nothing good said about this game outside this forum. Every youtube video uploaded, every news article that manages to come out, the top comment is "Dead game stay dead," or "Just go F2P." If you're worried that there will be a large mass of anti-publicity, well, we're already there.
 
Word of mouth only goes so far. 10 day trials are a good start, but they poison their own water when people choose the PVP server without knowing that it's tumbleweed central.
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{| class="blockquote"
That is very true. I think if it were in my hands I would close the pvp servers until the general consensus was that pvp had been fixed, and then re open them with an incentive. 
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			If anyone is curious about the state of the game or the odds of it dying, ten day passes seem pretty easy to get ahold of. Come on in the water's fine! I've talked to about three returnees this morning alone doing questing in Celestion.	
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{| class="blockquote"
If anyone is curious about the state of the game or the odds of it dying, ten day passes seem pretty easy to get ahold of. Come on in the water's fine! I've talked to about three returnees this morning alone doing questing in Celestion.
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{| class="blockquote"
Lineage is.  Lineage 2 isn't.
 
In the end, it's a question of where the game ends up.  Wildstar could end up making a killing, but most importantly Wildstar is referenced with other subscription MMORPGs.  Comparing it to GW2 and trying to make sure they share the same audience could very easily get Wildstar more players and lose NCSoft money.  Right now, every player here is accounted for with guaranteed dollars, and many people would leave if it went F2P.  In a vacuum, this used to not be an issue because players came from the ether when the game went F2P.  That's not NCSoft's situation anymore; they get diminishing returns for every title they release with overlapping audiences.  What they'd probably LIKE to do is make sure Wildstar stays subscription, fights the negative feedback, and takes a bigger bite out of Blizzard's audience.  Right now, their direct competition doesn't appear to be F2P games (we're working from the assumption, presupposed on these forums, that F2P players won't play a sub game), but other subscription games.
 
When people bring up F2P or B2P, they bring up Guild Wars 2.  That's a HUGE problem for NCSoft, because they do not, for any reason, want Wildstar to be mentioned in the same breath as Guild Wars 2.  Those games cannot become primary competitors if NCSoft is actually looking to make more money.  And I would wager that they would have a lot more high-plat exclusive vendor items and try to get their extra money from CREDD before they would want to go F2P or B2P.  They'd probably rather do ANYTHING in their power to not go F2P, especially after Lineage 2.
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I have used my 10 day trial up now to see how things are looking after drop 4 because I really do think this game is amazing.  However, in spite of all some of your guys optimism about how things are looking up, some major elephants in the room keep popping up and reading through this thread they seem to just get ignored or explained away.  If someone can honestly explain to me how everything is ok as long you don't play pvp, try to play dominion, or happen to play at all outside of your server's peak time, is a sign the game is doing good I would appreciate it. 
 
In my mind the fact that only one faction, of one server, during a few hours a night has enough population to do anything meaningful is not a good thing at all, and if that seriously is an improvement since drop 4 that is even worse in my opinion.  For someone like me who does enjoy the game, but has a life schedule that doesn't allow for that very small window where the stars align and everyone is online to play, I am left with little choice other than just try to solo somethings or spend most of my playtime trying to hopefully put something together.  If all you do is play in your bubble of guild and friends during the peak hours of the server you are really out of touch with how this game is perceived by someone that is really trying to give it a go and discover nexus.  
 
I have resubscribed because I do want to support carbine, and I do think this game really deserves a place in the modern day mmo world, but the reality is what it is and I just wish there could be some honest discussion about it here without the usual things I see from both sides.  FTP might not be the best solution, but in my opinion neither is just telling people that come here that, sure everything is all good as long as you play this very specific way and forego doing a lot of the content until you are 50 or find a static group to play with.
 
I am sure no one cares, but just my two cents.	
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As long as you don't play pvp:  BGs have had a resurgence.  But there IS a reality that there is no real reason to be on a PvP server unless you like to gank people.
 
Saying that dominion is dead, does not make it so.  One side HAS to be more populated than another, it's just a fact.  That doesn't mean that you can't do anything on the dominion side.  There's more than enough players to do anything you want on dominion side.  If people put it down as a requirement to play on the most populated server and faction, it would be false to suggest anything other than PvE server Exile.
 
People complain about population during non-peak hours.  I don't have any experience with this since I don't fall into the category of people that play at those times.  But it should be expected that there are less players mid-day mid-week.
 
Is the game fine as it is?  no.  I don't think a rational person could say that.  But there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic.  I don't see how seeing a silver lining about a game we enjoy, and want to see thrive, is a problem.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Is there anything to bit off from WoW by now? 
WoW recently suffered the worst slump in subscribers. These people actually went to free to play MMOs. They banned the top raiding guilds for account sharing to be able to raid 24/7, so these ones left and carried their own fanbase with it. From the remaining, the regular expansion drop off happened and then on top of that people seem to be struggling with the newest Mystic raid and disbanding guilds over that.
 
Then there's the fact that you can buy sub with gold now for a fixed 20 000 gold price. You can make this in less than a day. It's not a high amount of money even for a Pandaria player. 
 
Besides this, what other MMOs are there left in the sub market? Realm Reborn, Eve and Warcraft. Am I missing something? Sub games don't seem to fare very well anymore.
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The games population skewing to the older side is all well and good and I myself am in my 30's so I would fall into that category, but in my opinion that is neither here nor there.  The point I was making is that there are aren't people around to do the group oriented content unless playing during peak times, and what could be done to help rectify that.  You stating that is the reason for the low pop during the day doesn't help at all and only emphasizes the point I was making about someone coming into the game that doesn't fit into the standard not having a positive experience and then further going on to not give positive reviews or recommendations about Wildstar.  I also never said it was a problem that people want to form groups within a circle of friends or guild, that is fantastic.  My comments were that not everyone has that luxury and it isn't good for the games long term health that those people have to just "deal" with it, when allowing more into the game with a model change would help with that problem.
 
Even if you are right about free to play not necessarily bringing in more revenue, I don't think you could argue that it will most definitely bring in more people, and if that allows the servers to host more activity around the clock that is a good thing.  Even if some of these people only spend 5 dollars a month that is more than NCsoft is making now not even marketing to those people.
 
I find it also slightly condescending your comments about these people playing working their 9 to 5 's and being "professional" so that they have their evenings to play.  There are many many job professions and careers that work on call, rotating, or in general off shift work.  To exclude opportunities in game by not actively trying to bring in bigger overall population, other than a almost non advertised 10 day trial, seems short sighted to me.  In my eyes its very simple, bringing in more people around the clock, professional or not, older or younger, should be what the goal is here.  Its best for everyone posting on these forums to have more people on the servers, for raids, group content and to have pvp be something other than a topic we don't like to talk about.  
 
To argue that bringing in more people, regardless of how, in this case with a free to play or hybrid model, as a bad thing is in my opinion not healthy long term for this game.  I would say that if Q1 financials aren't showing a marked improvement then it is almost a shoe in that some sort of pay model change will take place no matter how many on this forum fight against.  And if you actually look at the names posting here its like the same 20 people anyway so its a very small voice as it is.  I personally want to see Wildstar succeed and also have more people to play this great game with so this seems very simple to me.	
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