110566-amp-upgrade-and-ability-tier-unlock-revisions-page-2

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 I don't think the devs miscalculated the drop rate, they miscalculated the player's level of brain fortitude.  
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For people who already have Gold medal in dungeons, will they have to run the dungeon again or is there a vendor where they can purchase said reward?
 
Sry if this has been answered in the thread already.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You don't shift the burden of proof with weasel words, you just make yourself look silly.  If your premise is completely baseless, then why should anyone bother with your conclusion?  Instead of coming in here with weasel words and ill defined terms to support disparaging accusations you could bring an actual argument.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yup, I think that's exactly it. I'm in the camp that would say 'oh well, play more' to the whiners before changing the rates; but I can't claim to not see the reasoning behind the decision, and I can't really fault Carbine for doing it given their situation.
 
 
I would actually completely agree with this if that's waht they did Vic. But they didn't just up the drop rates. That I could have standed; and honestly would have been pretty cool. 
 
My major qualm is that they have tacked guaranteed points onto other content (dungeons / reputation grinds / path leveling / prestige / etc). A higher drop rate? Fine, go with it. But tacking these onto existing reward structures? That I am the most unhappy about. 
 
I'm not suggesting some of those reward structures were great, Honestly some of them really needed to be reworked / have different content added to them. But to toss the amps/ability tiers as a guaranteed part of that reward structure IMO makes them a 'given' and trivializes their collection. Rather than a rare item to farm for/ they are incidental items obtaind as a matter of fact through all manner of activities whose main reward system is focused elsewhere...
 
IMO that portion of the update devalues the extra points. rather than something to be proud of, and feel accomplished when you get them; they are expected results from content. 
 
Obviously YMMV, and I really do agree about the basic premise you present (an upgrade in drop rates to more accurately reflect where Carbine wanted these items to be is GOOD). But using them as a bandaid for other, poorly developed reward structures is a cop out IMO and devalues the items.
 
-Naz
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			I've been playing and doing dailies for 3 months'ish now and have yet to see any amp points. Heck, just maxing those reps are a month commitment, I don't think it's too much to ask to be able to complete your character builds after playing for an additional month or so after reaching cap.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Your conclusion about the world drop rate is not correct.  You're incorrectly extrapolating from Jabbithole data.  What you're doing is the equivalent of asking a lottery jackpot winner how many tickets he bought before winning ("About 100.") and then using that data to say that the likelihood of winning a jackpot is 1/100.  Jabbithole has the same problem.
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You cannot use jabbithole data for extremely rare droprates until you have a significant number of drops.  
You want to convince me otherwise?  Answer these two simple questions about drop rates:
 
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
 
Then can you imagine my frustration when someone uses the jabbithole data and claims that it's a "conservative" estimate?	
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{| class="blockquote"
I may not be understanding something, but how are there people who have already capped out on AMP/Ability points by not using that vendor exploit? I understand if you could have spent a lot of money and bought every unlock that was sold in the trade channel, but, honestly, I don't believe you got all of those without abusing the system. It takes way more than 3 month to get all of the unlocks from the EG vendor. If you spent money on those unlocks, that's completely on you and you don't have any right to blame the developers for your own decisions.
 
Aside from that, I'm all in for this change. It should have been made closer to launch, but better late than never. Contrary to some opinions expressed here, I believe that this will help increase the size of the player base and will not harm it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Standard half EG sell back would suffice I think, so its like you sold back the one you purchased.
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{| class="blockquote"
You cannot use jabbithole data for extremely rare droprates until you have a significant number of drops.  
You want to convince me otherwise?  Answer these two simple questions about drop rates:
 
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
 
Then can you imagine my frustration when someone uses the jabbithole data and claims that it's a "conservative" estimate?
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{| class="blockquote"
Yup, I think that's exactly it. I'm in the camp that would say 'oh well, play more' to the whiners before changing the rates; but I can't claim to not see the reasoning behind the decision, and I can't really fault Carbine for doing it given their situation.
 
 
I would actually completely agree with this if that's waht they did Vic. But they didn't just up the drop rates. That I could have standed; and honestly would have been pretty cool. 
 
My major qualm is that they have tacked guaranteed points onto other content (dungeons / reputation grinds / path leveling / prestige / etc). A higher drop rate? Fine, go with it. But tacking these onto existing reward structures? That I am the most unhappy about. 
 
I'm not suggesting some of those reward structures were great, Honestly some of them really needed to be reworked / have different content added to them. But to toss the amps/ability tiers as a guaranteed part of that reward structure IMO makes them a 'given' and trivializes their collection. Rather than a rare item to farm for/ they are incidental items obtaind as a matter of fact through all manner of activities whose main reward system is focused elsewhere...
 
IMO that portion of the update devalues the extra points. rather than something to be proud of, and feel accomplished when you get them; they are expected results from content. 
 
Obviously YMMV, and I really do agree about the basic premise you present (an upgrade in drop rates to more accurately reflect where Carbine wanted these items to be is GOOD). But using them as a bandaid for other, poorly developed reward structures is a cop out IMO and devalues the items.
 
-Naz
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{| class="blockquote"
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
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{| class="blockquote"
This is known as a "claim". It is not an "argument". The value of a claim is subjective and to evaluate it objectively is foolish.
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			I think it's pretty obvious that absolutely NO ONE is convinced by the Jabbit hole data, just about everyone playing the game who has NEVER seen one actually drop themselves, makes a much stronger impression that a website that's data is completely wrong, and the 1 guy in the world that for some reason has a problem with a new system that actually makes amp/ability points accessible, and guess what? IT -edit: WILL- STILL TAKES MONTHS too max out.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wait, so grinding dailies for 30 days for reputation or earning a gold medal in group content devalues additional AMP/Ability points? Seriously? I'm pretty sure if there was any "devaluing of points" as "something to be proud of" (lol,) it was when they made the amp/ability point drops tradeable for in game gold...which can be bought for real $$$.  Are you someone who spent 500 real dollars for amp/ability points and are now mad?
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fffffffffaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
 
I skipped dailys the WHOLE time because... #lol #noswag #daylies #yolo .... omg.. now I really have to commit the grind... ugh.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I answered them quite nicely. The absolute drop rate is something ONLY Carbine knows; the observed droprate is conservatively 0.02%.
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{| class="blockquote"
I think that the problem with using that number is the AMP Power Upgrade and Ability Tier Point Unlock are ostensibly world drops, and what isn't on Jabbithole is the list of mobs that it hasn't dropped for.  Basically, if I killed 99 Thunderbeak Flesh Rippers and one Thundercall Shaman and had an AMP Power Upgrade drop from that Shaman, Jabbithole would record it as a 100% drop rate from Shaman when its really a 1% drop rate from anything, in the realm of this incredibly contrived example.
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These changes are excellent.  For a large majority of the playerbase, AMP points / Ability points are simply not within reach.  Removing these items from RNG is a valuable and important step in the right direction.
 
I know what you're thinking, (or rather Nazryn is thinking), but prior to this change, these items and the people collecting them were not hardcore.  RNG / currency farming is not hardcore.
 
Hardcore is beating the hardest content in the game / finishing all aspects of your character.  Hardcore is reaching a goal with a difficult pathway, not a time/RNG pathway.
 
There's just something terrible about the idea of never being able to finish a character because your'e locked behind RNG world drops / EG points, and it makes things a lot less fun.  Knowing that you have to make a choice of between LAS slot upgrades, raiding items, or other things with EG vs having a fully developed character seriously limits your quality of life in the game.
 
 
Let's not even talk about how unfriendly this was for alts....
 
 
I know I'm happy because I've never spent a single elder gem and have made quite a bit of plat off of the people buying these items.	
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Nazyrn, you didn't answer my question.  You say you did, so I think there was a misunderstanding.  Here is the question again:
 
{| class="blockquote"
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
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{| class="blockquote"
Nazyrn, you didn't answer my question.  It seems like you're willing to, I think there was a misunderstanding so I'll ask again: 
 
 
For these questions, I'm not asking about the actual drop rate of an Ability or AMP point, I'm asking for you to examine the drop rate of this hypothetical item.  All the information you need to answer this question accurately is provided by the question.
 
Your test and sample size calculations ignore that we're working with multiple independent groups.  Jabbithole only gives you the information from a small biased sample of groups that have dropped one of the items and completely ignores all the groups that have not (yet).  Dinwitt figured the issue out, I'm pretty sure you will figure it out if you just answer the two questions above.
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You must have read my question in the middle of an edit (resulting in nonsensical numbers).  Here is a clean version:
 
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
 
Again, this isn't an Ability/AMP point.  This is a hypothetical item, I just want to know what you think jabbithole would report.
 
Please see the edit my previous post to understand the problem with your 22/188108 calculation.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Obviously only a small amount of people compared to the full player base contribute their data to jabbithole... but it is frankly, plenty to make a rudimentary but accurate model of droprates given what they have available.
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For some reason there's a lot of confusion about drop rates for AMPs / Ability Points in this thread.  Let me put this into layman's terms that you can both understand.
 
The drop rate on AMP / Ability Points is so low, that some players are spending upwards of 45 plat (aka 6-9 credd, aka 120$-180$) per each item, with alts on other servers to buy them and transfer them over, at 20$ per server transfer.
 
That's not hardcore my friends, that was pay to win.  This is undeniably a good change.	
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{| class="blockquote"
On the playerbase that contributes to jabbithole, I would be interested in seeing the breakdown in terms of when they started playing.  I think its particularly interesting that despite three guilds having killed a boss in Datascape there is no information on legendary drops.
 
As for the percentages, let me try a different angle.  Jabbithole is great and accurate for items that drop from one mob.  Its poor for items that can drop from a range of mobs.  As far as we know, the AMP Power Upgrade is a world drop, meaning it can drop from any mob that gives experience.  So that .02% from the Shaman needs to be averaged with all the percentages on that page as well as the 0% from every other level 47+ mob the Jabbithole playerbase has killed. 
 
Additionally, there seems to be some bias towards groups, which goes a long way towards explaining the prevalence of drops from mobs in dungeons (and a bias in the playerbase towards running only dungeons and dailys would explain more).  Anecdotally, the only one I've seen drop was during an SSM Vet run.  Objectively, or perhaps conspiratorially, the original post here indicates that "A very dedicated group could see these on a semi-regular basis."  The use of the word group instead of something singular indicates that the drop rate of these is increased for a party.
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{| class="blockquote"
For some reason there's a lot of confusion about drop rates for AMPs / Ability Points in this thread.  Let me put this into layman's terms that you can both understand.
 
The drop rate on AMP / Ability Points is so low, that some players are spending upwards of 45 plat (aka 6-9 credd, aka 120$-180$) per each item, with alts on other servers to buy them and transfer them over, at 20$ per server transfer.
 
That's not hardcore my friends, that was pay to win.  This is undeniably a good change.
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{| class="blockquote"
45 plat (aka 6-9 credd, aka 120$-180$)
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			I am excited about the up coming changes and the future changes to the dye drops that were also mentioned. Thank you for this post 7ofswords, btw, where did you get that name and why? Just curious  :)
			
				
	Edited August 26, 2014 by BusterCasey
	
		Content	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
You must have read my question in the middle of an edit (resulting in nonsensical numbers).  Here is a clean version:
 
An item has an actual drop rate of 1/100,000 and can drop from 200 different mobs (Mob types 1-200).
Jabbithole players kill 1,000 of each mob.  They get two drops.  Mob type 34 drops one and Mob type 151 drops one.
 
1) What is the actual drop rate of this item?
2) What does Jabbithole report the drop rate of this item to be?
 
Again, this isn't an Ability/AMP point.  This is a hypothetical item, I just want to know what you think jabbithole would report.
 
Please see the edit my previous post to understand the problem with your 22/188108 calculation.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
2/200,000 .... = 1/100,000 = 0.00001 = 0.001% drop rate
 
200 mobs x 1000 kills each = 200,000 kills. 2 drops out of those kills = 1/100,000 = 0.001% it is equivalent to the true drop at well below 1 sigma
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Edit: Dinwitt covered it.
 
Second edit to address your edit:
 
I acknowledged in my first post that dungeon mobs might have something like a 0.02% drop rate, I took exception at your claim about world drop rates.
Scorchwing scorchers are an outlier and not indicative of the world drop rate.  I'm sure you realize that if the true world drop rate were 0.1% across the board then many more mobs would have populated the table.	
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			Please remember to award Path ones retroactively, or have them accessible at the path vending machine.	
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{| class="blockquote"
And Jabbithole would report the drop rates as what?
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{| class="blockquote"
We have many mobs that show 3 or more drops from individual mobs; again, virtual statistical impossibilities if the drop rates are as you suggest they are.
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{| class="blockquote"
Please remember to award Path ones retroactively, or have them accessible at the path vending machine.
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{| class="blockquote"
Well if we are playing funny business by excluding outliers, lets drop the 2 oldest mobs from the data that were farmed en masse when the droprates WERE lower as well.
 
 
That leaves us with a drop rate of 22 / 63 kills. 
 
Do you really believe that the true drop rate is closer to 0.035% -> 0.04% I don't, but if we are going to start fudging extreme values what the heck eh?
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{| class="blockquote"
 We have the developers telling us it is a 1/100,000 drop rate.
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh, and where would that be? 
 
link?
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{| class="blockquote"
This is bewildering because you otherwise seem to be intelligent.
 
http://www.jabbithole.com/items/rune-fragment-29609-3t1ynr
 
Assume 90% of this data is pre-drop rate buff (see how generous I am?).  You still have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of recorded kills on mobs that have never dropped a single ability or amp point.  And this isn't even close to exhaustive (caps out on 250 mob types).
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{| class="blockquote"
Nexus Report mentioning the bug that had put it at a 1/10,000,000 drop rate, and dev post saying it would be increased 100x.
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{| class="blockquote"
Obtaining rare items for activities with their own seperate reward structures devalues the item; yes. I do not buy credd or in-game currency, nor have I capped my amp/ability points. But I appreciate the effort and time needed to obtain them via farming / gems. 
 
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Or you could use the relevant data; and as drops occur and are added to the drop data include them in your statistical model.
 
Yes I am advocating ignoring mobs until they drop one, mostly because there is no verification that they are actual members of the population we are interested in sampling. 
 
That said; if that does end up being the case they will eventually shift to our drop data-set and shift the stats towards realistic values if indeed they are as low as you suggest.
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			I can't believe people are so against this change. Certain classes will greatly benefit and be brought out from the bottom of the barrel due to these changes. This adds more variety to the game and opens up options for people to spend elder gems on other things rather than just amp/ability unlocks which take a minimum of 3 weeks to obtain just 1. I don't know about everyone else but I don't want to wait til the end of 2015 to have my character maxed on unlocks. Get over it. This is a video game, stop acting like you just had your RL business shut down because of it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes I am advocating ignoring mobs until they drop one, mostly because there is no verification that they are actual members of the population we are interested in sampling. 
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			People are not against it, everyone I have talked to (my guild has over 60 active raiders) and almost everyone even on the forums are COMPLETELY for this change, it's just a very vocal individual using numbers from a website that is completely off trying to argue against it.  This change really should've been made in BETA, I am super happy it's on the way, but it was LOOOOOONG over due.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm glad to see you acknowledge the issue with jabbithole skewing drop rates.
 
I don't understand why you think pretending only a dozen or so mobs can drop an ability/amp point (ignoring all other data for all other mobs) is defensible, but at least you now understand the issues that causes.
 
That's about all I care to talk about this issue considering that it is going to be resolved 'soon'.  
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{| class="blockquote"
As far as I can see; that was JTal giving a live interview and making an off collar hyperbolic statement on the rarity. I certainly could be mistaken in my interpretation... but If I watch that like it's any other conversation I don't hear 10 million as the actual set drop rate, but as an off collar type statement.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd agree with you if it was just the first statement, "like one in ten million."  But Frost repeats it incredulously, and J-Tal doesn't give a more correct value, indicating the first number was accurate instead of hyperbolic.
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{| class="blockquote"
Because your position relies on extrapolating far beyond the data. Simple as that. I'm happy for the data to eventually shift and show different patterns; but I'm not happy to make statements outside of them.
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{| class="blockquote"
The AMP Power Upgrade is a world drop, that is a known fact (see the linked dev post, where it talks about the world drop rate).  Regardless of the drop rate off of specific mobs, for a world drop to only have been seen on nine mobs is a ridiculously small drop rate.
 
Even if we were to limit the "world" drop to just STL mobs, we are still looking at a 4/200,000 drop rate.
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{| class="blockquote"
The major metric I'm using to assess whether 1/10,000 versus 1/100,000 is the more reasonable order of magnitude are the bag drops; which, while not necessarily identical, should be in the same order of magnitude as the world drops. I  personally view the bag drops as more reliable indicators as we have more comprehensive coverage and a guarantee that our desired items are in their tables.
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{| class="blockquote"
Most players don't kill 100,000 mobs a month; hardcore farmers do. IF you just run content and go through the motions for a few hours a week, of COURSE you aren't going to see the drops that hardcore farmers are going to. 
 
While it could be true that some people buy credd and then spend it all on amp/ ability points; 60 plat isn't really that much... Casual players just running dailies each day for a week can make 20-30p from direct rewards after EP cap and drops alone.... folks who do a lot of farming can expect to see much more.  
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{| class="blockquote"
Except they've been very careful to indicate that the problematic drop rate, the one that was increased 100x, was the world drop rate and not the PvP bag drop rate, which indicates that the two are independent.
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{| class="blockquote"
Bags and the real world drops should be very close (at least within an order of magnitude)
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{| class="blockquote"
I think you're misusing the word casual.  Casuals don't save up platinum for amp/ability points because that's inherently not fun and hardcore.  Casuals spend the money  they make from dailies on things like housing, dyes, runes for their gear, crafting, etc.  I doubt most "casuals" make 20-30p a week.
 
I consider myself a hardcore player, but I'm definitely not hardcore enough to dedicate all my playtime into farming for and finding amp and ability points. I think most people would agree that doing that simply doesn't sound fun or a good use of my time.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Do you have any basis for that assumption?
 
And even then, 1/100,000 vs 1/10,000 is an order of magnitude, so I don't why you are taking exception with the 1/100,000 world drop rate.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yes, devs who aren't 100% idiots. The design principle behind bags is to provide an analogue for running world content while PvP ing / for time invested in challenges instead of direct mob farming. If the drop rates were wholly different that would constitute a major imbalance.
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{| class="blockquote"
You are going to be able to kill a lot more mobs in the world in the time it takes to do a PvP match, so I hope the drop chance is higher per bag than it is per mob for world drop loot.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Remind me what reliable data I'm disregarding? kills that aren't necessarily in the proper population I'm examining? 
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{| class="blockquote"
It is a world drop.  The idea that a world drop is contained to 9 mobs is ludicrous.  Even just considering the population of STL vet, you are looking at a 4/200,000 drop rate on Jabbithole.
 
We're just going around in circles now.
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{| class="blockquote"
We are not looking at a 4/200,000 drop rate on jabbithole, we are looking at a 25 / 188,108 drop rate on jabbithole.
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{| class="blockquote"
How do you figure?  Out of the ~200,000 mobs that drop loot in STL Vet recorded by Jabbithole, only 4 of them have dropped AMP Power Upgrades.  Where are you getting 25?
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{| class="blockquote"
How do i figure what? That you can't get over your own false claims? of the two mobs in STL that are KNOWN to drop amp points, one dropped 1/20k drops and the other dropped 3/20k drops. Both of those are within 1 sigma of a drop rate ~ 0.02% both are above 3 sigma from a drop rate of 1/100,000.
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{| class="blockquote"
This is starting to turn ugly, and its pointless to try and change someone's mind on the internet, so I am going to leave it at this.  You are suffering under the idea that a world drop can only drop off of 9 mobs, and refuse to believe the problem is with biases in the data.  I see other world drops dropping off a multitude of mobs and have seen no source that indicates the AMP Power Upgrade should behave differently than those world drops.  You have the assumption that the PvP bag drop rate and world drop rate for items are less than an order of magnitude from each other.  I have J-Tal verifying the 1/100,000 world drop rate drop rate, and its independence from the PvP bag drop rate.  There's nothing much more to say on the subject, especially since everything is about to change when the new rates get patched in, so I'll leave the discussion for others to parse at their leisure.
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You guys are arguing over something that doesn't matter anymore.
 
What's important is that YAAAAY AMP / ABILITY POINTS YAAAY	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Lmao How is it carbines fault if you bought something that is overpriced?
 
That's on YOU for being impatient if you spent plat. And if carbine changed rarity so what.? you already got your goods paying a premium price to get it early..
I'm sure if you can make that money before, you can do it again. Unless you exchanged real money to make in game money..
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It was your decision and your's alone to buy those unlocks from whoever was selling them at ridiculous prices. I'm not talking about the new ways to acquire them - I'm talking about the current ones.
 
If you spent a fortune on them and capped out or exploited the architect profession and capped out and now you're complaining and demanding a refund, you're a hypocrite.
 
You can talk all you want that those things are currently not so rare and are easy to come by, but I have played since early launch, had every weekly EG capped and not seen even one drop. I haven't seen anyone selling those things either.
 
I simply don't believe you got all the unlocks without exploiting. This is my own personal opinion and nothing you say will change it.	
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REQUEST about R-12 and BLIGHTHEAVEN:
 
Carbine, pls implement possibilities for solo players. Atm it is not possible for me to gather groups to gain reputation with that factions. Funnily enough R-12 was already outdated by blightheaven, before i even leveled up to malgrave. So everyone is kinda done with R-12 already and not interested anymore. Same goes with Blightheaven, because i joined "late" into the beloved-farm, i am now stuck on popular. I dont even have a bar for the R-12/malgrave research faction reputation. I do get one after the first successful R-12 event?
 
I am patient enough to wait for you guys to sort out the server population issues, but i would like to have an option to persue every faction reputation solo, because as it is on my server now, i dont have another option.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I am patient enough to wait for you guys to sort out the server population issues, but i would like to have an option to persue every faction reputation solo, because as it is on my server now, i dont have another option.
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			asking about compensation for buying points from the EG vendor is pretty silly, even with all these changes, the changes are still not a "LOL HERES ALL YOUR AMP POINTS" like people are making it out to be, it will still take at least a month (maxing out your reps) and some serious pvp grind to get even just 4 of the amp points from this change.  If you want to max out any time soon, you will still need to pick up a few from the EG vendor	
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{| class="blockquote"
asking about compensation for buying points from the EG vendor is pretty silly, even with all these changes, the changes are still not a "LOL HERES ALL YOUR AMP POINTS" like people are making it out to be, it will still take at least a month (maxing out your reps) and some serious pvp grind to get even just 4 of the amp points from this change.  If you want to max out any time soon, you will still need to pick up a few from the EG vendor
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Just about everyone who is raiding spent their EG on ONLY amp/ability points, to spend them on anything else save the genetic fail-safe or the convergance weapons set your character back literally weeks.
And yes, I am one of those people, this is awesome BECAUSE of the fact that we now actually have the EG vendor as a viable option for something other than our amp/ability points.	
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Here I'll give you guys some statistics.  I've been playing quite a bit since launch, and have 2 decked 50s exclusively through pvp.  I have seen 4 different (amp/ability) points from bags.
 
I've seen 4-  and that's high considering many of my partners have seen 0.  4 is not enough to finish my character, much less everyone else that's trying to finish their own.
 
So now I can come to the conclusion with 99% confidence that the drop rates on those items are statistically *cupcake*ed, and that this is a good change.	
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Hey everybody,
 
Let's tap the brakes for a minute. We've been veering a bit off topic with the drop rate math, so let's steer it back on course.	
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{| class="blockquote"
LMAO it's NOT overpriced with the rarity provided.
Carbine change rarity so what? So people who got the good before paid an unfair price. The rarity increase is simply discouraging players from investing time and money in this game.
 
ROFL.
 
First, your argument is based on your assumption of "the vast majority of players who have maxed out or are nearly maxed out on these extra points have done so by exploiting systems in the game to gain plat". Don't make assumption like it ever again, it's simply stupid. "If i had to bet", lol, I would really like to bet since I know 6 friends who will get extra non-trade-able ability points with the change intended, not exploiting at all. I would like to see your list of players exploiting.
 
Second, that "tiny minority" of players are the ones who invested way more than average players in time or money or both. You don't care, fine, but carbine should think twice before "cupcake off" them to provide another reason for these hardcore players to leave the game, which may also cause more people leave as chain reaction.
 
I doubt a player-wide positive quality of life change is going to *cupcake* people off.  It might *cupcake* the people off that spent all of their free time farming for AMP / Ability Points for whatever reason, but that was their choice to do that.
In short, there should be NEVER a dramatic change like this for end game loots.
 
If there have been any good changes from release, it's this one.
 
Carbine's promise didn't include the part "non-trade-able" "non-refundable". They didn't say the number of points which can be acquired by natural gameplay (reputation/path/pvp) either.
No one is prophet here, I doubt carbine staff had a clear number for amp/ability point changes a week a go. So any loot change rate/new ways to get the loot will damage some people's benefit.
The whole point of compensation in my thread is to reduce the damage.
 
I don't think you're being damage at all.  In fact, all of this farming you've been doing to your goal has now put you ahead of the pack.  You don't have to worry about completing content / doing well etc to get the remaining points because you already have them.  You are not being hurt by this, period.
 
It's ok not to understand since not everyone is farming hardcore. But it's not ok to make such an assumption "people capped out AMP/Ability points only by abusing/exploiting".
It's completely on me if I spent money on those? It's NOT my decision that unlock points from new ways are non-trade-able. It's NOT my decisions to make rare drops less rare. Let's say you raided a month and spent all your hard working DKP on a loot, not to mention the effort to get in raid and those wipe costs. A month later Carbine say you will get that gear for a really low cost if you have enough reputation or some other stuff which comes with natural gameplay. And that gear you can acquire is not trade-able. So are you happy with that? It's your decision to roll on that loot anyway.
 
Yea... this happens all the time.  It's called new content / updates / new raids.  Do you think people that raided in WoW were irked because they spent hours and hours farming pve dungeons just for epics?  Yea, probably.  But, for some reason, they keep releasing new content with new gear, and people start to understand that working together / clearing content with OTHER PEOPLE, is more important than the "look at me I have an advantage," feeling.
By making something rare easier to get may benefit many players who haven't got that item, but it also damage the players who got the item and maybe played earlier/invested time/money more. At the point you make them unhappy enough to leave the game that will damage the playerbase a lot harder than the happy effect others get due to the fact that they maybe the core of some raids.
 
You probably shouldn't play MMOs because this happens every 3-4 months and every level cap, everytime new metas are introduced... it just happens very often.
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For R-12 there are about a dozen Primes scattered around the northern half that you might be able to solo, and almost certainly duo, for rep along with a large patrol that is soloable if you have the gear/get lucky.
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Im glad, 30plat is stupid, thanks for this change.
Much butt hurt to those wanting that plat thou, I would be but I used my point. ;)	
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It was your decision and your's alone to buy those unlocks from whoever was selling them at ridiculous prices. I'm not talking about the new ways to acquire them - I'm talking about the current ones.
 
If you spent a fortune on them and capped out or exploited the architect profession and capped out and now you're complaining and demanding a refund, you're a hypocrite.
 
You can talk all you want that those things are currently not so rare and are easy to come by, but I have played since early launch, had every weekly EG capped and not seen even one drop. I haven't seen anyone selling those things either.
 
I simply don't believe you got all the unlocks without exploiting. This is my own personal opinion and nothing you say will change it.
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{| class="blockquote"
You have a very weak argument my friend. It's one that screams "I JUST SPENT ALL THIS TIME AND MONEY TO GET AHEAD" and now the people without as much time and money are going to be on par with me again?! RAWRAWRAWRAWR
 
The important thing to remember here, is that AMP / Ability Points are now available to to HARDCORE players that do content, instead of HARDCORE farmers for currency.
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{| class="blockquote"
The important thing I'm stating here, is that for hardcore farmers who invested time and money to cap doesn't get the new AMP/Ability points for hardcore players that do content, even if the farmers do the content as well, because these new points are not trade-able and they are not releasing new amp/ability cap.
 
That's the whole point I made in my original thread : at least make these points trade-able to compensate players already capped.
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{| class="blockquote"
You're crazy.  This is like me asking for free gear every time they nerf content.  I mean, I did it before it was available, right?  
 
Should I get free prestige for getting the gear before they reduced the costs?
 
Seriously man.  That's how these games work.  I wouldn't even be so matter of fact about it, except that they told us explicitly that this was going to happen, and that it was only a matter of time.
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So you're telling me that since you no-lifed the game 10 hours a day (I don't even want to know whether you did that every day since headstart), farmed plat and unlocks, or exploited game mechanics that I'm more inclined to think how it went, you feel entitled for a compensation?
 
News flash! This isn't how online games work!
 
The drop rate was broken and the devs admitted it countless times. But you kept mauling yourself over this barbed fence and got all unlocks. Well, got for you, regardless the way you acquired them. Now you have the right to brag that you got it all before the fix. And that's it. You get nothing else.
 
Stop replying in *your* thread? Seems like you're unaware of how not only online games work, but online game forums as well. Grow up.	
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I really like these changes to the AMP and ability tier upgrades, but I have one suggestion that I hope you might take into consideration.
 
In PvE a gold medal award can make you earn up to 2 AMPs and 2 ability upgrades if you earn gold on all the dungeons. There should be a similar system for PvP. For example earning 1500 rating in rated battlegrounds will give you 1 AMP upgrade, while getting 1500 rating in arena will give you another 1 AMP upgrade. When getting 1800 rating you will earn 1 ability upgrade from both arena and rated battlegrounds.
 
This gives a total of 4 upgrades for PvPers. 
 
The reason for this is that the reputation can be gained by anyone, the prestige upgrades can easily be gained by anyone etc. Gold medals, however, is only obtainable by players who actively PvE, and it might be fair to have the same rewards for active PvPers. 
 
Thank you for your time.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
The reason for this is that the reputation can be gained by anyone, the prestige upgrades can easily be gained by anyone etc. Gold medals, however, is only obtainable by players who actively PvE, and it might be fair to have the same rewards for active PvPers. 
 
 
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So on the PVE side, players must invest time and effort to get 13k prestige to get the AMPS / Ability Points.
 
And on the PVP side, players must invest time and effort to get GOLD on these dungeons.
 
Seems fair, each has to dip into each others pool.
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I agree 13k is alot of prestige to farm but in time even if you pug everyone can get it eventually, I can't say the same for pugging to get gold in dungeons and let's not forget you get 2 AMPs and 2 Ability upgrades from dungeons, where from PvP you get 2 AMPs and only 1 Ability.
 
It's only fair for PvPers to get a reward from PvP ( 1.5k or 1.8k rating in RBGs or arenas for example, as mentioned on my other post) to something equivalent in difficulty like getting gold In PvE.
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im glad they are increasing the drop rate and making the skill/amp points a bit easier to aquire, not being funny but who in the right mind would want to grind out 6+ months for an extra few points,or the boosters that silly amounts of plat just buying them in a few days.
 
which reminds me, people will only be annoyed now because they cant sell them for 50+ plat each they will go down in price now the greedy people that farm them will be mad I can see that now so that proberly why some of these players are against the idea of making them a bit easier to aquire.	
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			limited by time a skill ?    class/gear > skill from what I see on here so far     there is like next to no skill required at all with one of these OP FOTM class's in pvp specialy if geared and how easy it is to aim with most of these class's is beyond me how someone can miss with the massive telegraphs on the floor that goes through walls and is nothing but AOE targeting. only class that takes a little bit of skill is engineer because its so dam slow.	
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{| class="blockquote"
limited by time a skill ?    class/gear > skill from what I see on here so far     there is like next to no skill required at all with one of these OP FOTM class's in pvp specialy if geared and how easy it is to aim with most of these class's is beyond me how someone can miss with the massive telegraphs on the floor that goes through walls and is nothing but AOE targeting. only class that takes a little bit of skill is engineer because its so dam slow.
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			I think we should think about this for the people who are already capped on these.  Can we make these purchasable and awarded unlocks, go to our account inventory? That way we didn't achieve all of these accomplishments for absolutely no reason?	
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			They should make them account bound not BoE or BoP, that way you can use them on alt if you are already capped on main, but they wont.	
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{| class="blockquote"
They should make them account bound not BoE or BoP, that way you can use them on alt if you are already capped on main, but they wont.
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			considering they will be one-time usage only... I don't see the use in BoA, do you neglect your alts completely? Besides, we don't know where the rate of normal sellable drops will be yet I believe. I can understand that the ones from rep would be hard to get but if your alt can't get the rest of them you must not be playing your alt to begin with.	
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{| class="blockquote"
considering they will be one-time usage only... I don't see the use in BoA, do you neglect your alts completely? Besides, we don't know where the rate of normal sellable drops will be yet I believe. I can understand that the ones from rep would be hard to get but if your alt can't get the rest of them you must not be playing your alt to begin with.
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So after reading pages upon pages of "I like this or I hate this because (insert reasons)" I think this is a great change to the amp/ability tier system. Yes the extra amp points and ability tier is nice and lovely but it's in no way game breaking.
Which all the people that hate this because it "kills" the "hardcore" feel to the game. I pose to you how many hardcore guilds that are in the 20/40 man raids have completely unlocked their amp/ability points? For the most part it lets you t4 or take one more t8 ability which only grants a very small bonus or lets you grab t4 for your stun for 2 interrupt armor. In the IA case thats a big bonus but 10/10 times your 5 man group and raiding group has it covered and on lock down so it really just give you a little more breathing room if someone fails. The vast majority of all classes and builds are pretty solid with out the extra points. I would comment on how the extra points effect PvP but I don't PvP myself and as far as I have read PvP is in a bad state as is. Again I don't know that for sure since I don't PvP.
 
Now I'm saying this as a dedicated "hardcore" PvE player they are giving us a few extra routes to get these optional points. The only factions they are letting you buy the items off of are Crimson Badlands, Northern Wilds, Blighthaven, and R-12 which you can't even start working on till 48-50. The rep will still take just as bloody long to grind out and for a few give us a reason to grind it out. I can only speak for myself but Northern Wilds and Crimson Badlands gives me nothing at all worth buying from the rep vendor. An Blighthaven epic helm is the only somewhat useful item for me, but on a side note blighthaven rep you can get Beloved by completing the quest line out there. An that takes a few hours give or take, the Crimson Badlands and Northern Wilds still take a few weeks to get up. Increasing the world drop rate is a good thing since they haven't said by how much. Lets say they raise it from a .01% to .1 / 1% they will still be epically rare drops. An if you are a super hardcore farmer and netting 3 of these a week right now you might only see 1 or 2 extra a week. So your getting 4 or 5 a week thats a "big" increase for the super farmers. Now I'm a dedicated mob farmer and while I have netted myself a steady cash flow to buy all my points (Which I refuse to pay that much plat for 1 point) I have yet to see even one of these items drop for me. Now with the increase someone of my level of dedication might see 1 drop a week which as a few people are cring over isn't "handing out free points".
 
The adding 2 points to gold rewards for vet dungeons is also not handing out free points. I mean think on this they are dropping the attunement to bronze or better because a large percent of players are having trouble just getting silver. Only the best of the best are getting golds and even then these "Hardcore Elites" fail at getting gold sometimes. Anyone on here saying getting gold medals on vet dungeons is easy and simple and they have it on farm status is full of themselfs or haven't ran a vet dungeon before. To get gold your group must perform flawlessly at every encounter to beat the timers. Some of them give some wiggle room to account for a wipe or two if you skip a portion of trash. Which need I remind you skipping a portion of trash mobs is an "exploit" so for those calling others out for exploiting a system to get something have no room to talk.
 
As to the PvP influence you can buy 1 of each point for 5000 points. Which you get points just for being there reguardless if you put any effort in or just afk the match. Your also able to get a point from the victory/perc bags which again you get just for showing up. You can't claim that the PvP side of it is harder or needs more skill then getting gold in vet dungeons. I mean your getting points and a bag just for accepting the que and standing around. Now that may change with the changes to pvp system but even if you loose you still get points and a bag and neither has a ranking tied to them. So out of all the systems the PvP side of the house are getting free points for just showing up it will just take them a longer time to be awarded their points.
 
It would be nice if they made the one time points account bound I have 3 50s and working a 4th so farming the points along side attunement is time consuming. Now on the other hand I don't want them to be since it gives me something else to do with my alts. An besides the world drop items isn't a one time use and so far will remain BoE so if your like me just farm up a bunch and mail them out to your alts. The changes don't take anything away from the "hardcore" feel to the game and its not handing out free points to casuals except maybe the pvp side of the house. Everyone will still have to buy the rest of their points either by plat or elder gems. Now to those who already bought theur full points weither it was from plat or elder gems I don't feel you should be refunded anything. For one there is no way to tell you got your points from elder gems or plat useing legal or illegal means. You get a gold clap and congrads for unlocking all your points early. I myself am sitting at 783 elder gems and was saving up to buy all my points at once instead of point by point. If I had bought them all before the change would it make me a little upset that I put in all that time and now I can get them easier? Yes it would a little because I could have spent the time doing something else but chances are 10 out of 10 times if your working to get these points you want them for either PvP or Raiding. Mostly endgame stuff which your already doing anyway so your earning elder points and gems just from playing so you can't say "I wasted all this time grinding out my points". I love what the devs are doing to improve the game.
 
To all those who are complaining about making things easier and not being hardcore think of it this way. Does it hurt you or hinder your game if people end up with the same amount of points as you do? If those points get more people into raiding then great because more people/guilds getting into raiding weither they can clear it or not still doesn't hurt or effect the "hardcore" groups. Why doesn't it hurt them, its very simple all the "hardcore" raiders are raiding in guilds and those guilds have their set teams. So the extra people that will be hitting raids don't effect thier core team chances are the core team aren't even aware that an extra 70 new people are raiding now. So more people getting points doesn't effect anyone except for maybe the people tring to sell the points your going have to lower your prices but boohoo, end of ranting good day.	
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			Personally, grinding out endgame rep is about as hardcore and time consuming as I can imagine (no different from grinding elder gems).  I still don't have any endgame rep maxed except for Exiles.	
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{| class="blockquote"
limited by time a skill ?    class/gear > skill from what I see on here so far     there is like next to no skill required at all with one of these OP FOTM class's in pvp specialy if geared and how easy it is to aim with most of these class's is beyond me how someone can miss with the massive telegraphs on the floor that goes through walls and is nothing but AOE targeting. only class that takes a little bit of skill is engineer because its so dam slow.
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			Any news about the price of respec amp points?	
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Dear Carbine...stop making ur list of promises on Fixes longer and longer each day. Please fix one thing before moving onto another. ALL I see is promises and no fixes. How long has carbine been talking about fixing the AMPs issue...or updateing it...whatever?? Instead we get ANOTHER promise of Megaservers without fixing the AMPs. Let me guess...now AMPS wont be fixed at all..while we wait MONTHS for Megaservers.
 
(corrected note) DEAR CARBINE....work on one thing at a time...and actually finish it. Im getting tired of lame promises	
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			Since when have MMOs players paid to subscribe to Promises? WHEN did become the norm?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 Im getting tired of lame promises
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{| class="blockquote"
Dear Carbine...stop making ur list of promises on Fixes longer and longer each day. Please fix one thing before moving onto another. ALL I see is promises and no fixes. How long has carbine been talking about fixing the AMPs issue...or updateing it...whatever?? Instead we get ANOTHER promise of Megaservers without fixing the AMPs. Let me guess...now AMPS wont be fixed at all..while we wait MONTHS for Megaservers.
 
(corrected note) DEAR CARBINE....work on one thing at a time...and actually finish it. Im getting tired of lame promises
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			Today please.	
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			Pardon my ignorance, and forgive me if this question has already been asked, but will these changes increase the cap of extra AMP points one may obtain? Or are these just additional ways to reach that cap?	
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			Nope, just ways to get them	
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{| class="blockquote"
Pardon my ignorance, and forgive me if this question has already been asked, but will these changes increase the cap of extra AMP points one may obtain? Or are these just additional ways to reach that cap?
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			Thank you!	
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What about players who have already surpassed these path level thresholds?
 
Added a single-use AMP Power Upgrade and single-use Ability Tier Unlock Point to path level rewardsReaching path level 15 with your chosen path will now reward players with a single-use AMP Power Upgrade. Reaching path level 30 will now reward players with a single-use Ability Tier Unlock Point. These items are not trade-able.
 	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
What about players who have already surpassed these path level thresholds?
 
Added a single-use AMP Power Upgrade and single-use Ability Tier Unlock Point to path level rewardsReaching path level 15 with your chosen path will now reward players with a single-use AMP Power Upgrade. Reaching path level 30 will now reward players with a single-use Ability Tier Unlock Point. These items are not trade-able.
 
 
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			Patch notes says there is an amp upgrade to be bought from Malgrave, but I can't seem to find the vendor.. does anyone know where he is?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Patch notes says there is an amp upgrade to be bought from Malgrave, but I can't seem to find the vendor.. does anyone know where he is?
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			Yea, it's the research initiative that you must be beloved with and not regular malgrave faction. Carbine's a bunch of crap weasels. The incessant grinding on top of grinding on top of grinding on top of exponential RNG's on top of long-overlooked/ignored SS healing problems has me questioning why I should continue playing this game more than once. I play hours daily grinding through various different aspects of the game. What was once enjoyable is now wearing on me. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yea, it's the research initiative that you must be beloved with and not regular malgrave faction. Carbine's a bunch of crap weasels. 
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Man what? The event gives tons of elder points and is done in like 15min with a big group.
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			I did my attunement a while back and moved on. It's not the research initiative rep I'm annoyed at; it's the level of grinding required in multiple aspects of the game that I'm frustrated with. I spend much of my time grinding through these multiple aspects as I feel that I must to be at the top of my game. I'd rather log in and have fun. Carbine doesn't seem to get that the sheer amount of RNG and grind has already frustrated many into quitting and is slowly pushing other people who enjoy the game into doing the same.	
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			Just a general question: why do MMO makers feel the necessity to charge you currency to respec a toon? This has happened in every MMO I have played, and well, it just doesnt make any sense. Do the game makers NOT want you to try out all the skills/AMPs/whatever and play around?Heaven forbid this be, you know, a "game", in which we, ..shudder...have "fun". Why do this? It doesnt really help the economy. There are plenty of other currency sinks to keep the value of currency/trade/gear etc high. We dont need to be able to respec/AMP reset/etc in combat'; there are easy ways to control that. So, why charge people significant ingame currency to reset AMPs? Seriously. Why?	
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Why do I feel like this game was designed by early 20th century robber barons?
 
Ability and AMP points should be part of the leveling process and not some nickel and dime add-on to prolong the end game grind.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Why do I feel like this game was designed by early 20th century robber barons?
 
Ability and AMP points should be part of the leveling process and not some nickel and dime add-on to prolong the end game grind.
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{| class="blockquote"
Did you miss the 41 ability tier points and 45 AMP power points you received while leveling?
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{| class="blockquote"
You're probably one of those people who think it's fine that potato chip bags are 2/3 air, amirite?
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{| class="blockquote"
Why do I feel like this game was designed by early 20th century robber barons?
 
Ability and AMP points should be part of the leveling process and not some nickel and dime add-on to prolong the end game grind.
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			Has the world drop rate actually been raised? It's been a week and I haven't seen one drop with the new patch rate yet... I was under the impression that the average player would see something every 5 hours playtime or so? Or was that player theory and not a blue post?	
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{| class="blockquote"
Has the world drop rate actually been raised? It's been a week and I haven't seen one drop with the new patch rate yet... I was under the impression that the average player would see something every 5 hours playtime or so? Or was that player theory and not a blue post?
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{| class="blockquote"
Instanced dungeons are not 'open world'. But I am not ignoring that data in any event.
 
We are not looking at a 4/200,000 drop rate on jabbithole, we are looking at a 25 / 188,108 drop rate on jabbithole.
 
These are indeed circles, but not mine. 
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A lot of people seem to think that they should be maxed on ability points and elder gems as soon as they hit 50, which is why they seem so dissapointed. Since the patch I`ve gone from 1/7 ability points to 7/7 and from 2/10 amp points to 9/10, and I definitely feel that the way it is now is just right.
 
They are not too hard to obtain, but they aren´t too easy either. Specifically talking about ability points, I got 1 from a PvP bag, bought 2, got 1 from Blighthaven reputation, 1 from prestige and 1 from my path.
 
Say you can farm around 10 plat a day, maybe 15 or 20 if you`re really dedicated, then it shouldn´t take that long for one to max their ability points, or at least not as long as people are making it out to take (current cost is around 40p on Hazak EU). Even if you only farm like 5 plat a day, you should be able to slowly accumulate enough money to cap ability points within a month and a half.
 
Sure, maybe I got lucky by getting a single ability point from RNG. However, even if I hadn´t, I would still be 7/7 at the moment, it´s just that I would have farmed a bit more.	
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Chua raiding and is not even capped on AMP and Ability points.
Can play game fine without being capped at 50....
Chua think many need to learn patience.	
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Why make the AMP upgrades so much easier to get than Ability upgrades for the casual player?
 
Level 15 path for AMP, level 30 path for Ability.
 
Crimson Badlands and Northern Wastes for AMP. Blighthaven (yuck) for Ability.
 
Could you at least add one time Ability upgrades to CB and NW too?	
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			The ability tier points, for whatever reason, have always been valued higher.  Just look at the Elder Gem cost (320 for AMP power upgrade, 400 for ability tier point unlock).	
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{| class="blockquote"
The ability tier points, for whatever reason, have always been valued higher.  Just look at the Elder Gem cost (320 for AMP power upgrade, 400 for ability tier point unlock).
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{| class="blockquote"
That's a modest difference though. The other ways are a BIG difference.
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			It's nice that they've made it easier to get amp and ability points. Hopefully when they finally make amps worth taking as a healing esper, I might actually make an attempt to get more. Right now I can easily get by with only using half my points. I only used the rest cause I was getting annoyed with the orange highlight letting me know I still have unused points left. Even then, it involved figuring out with amp wasn't broken and which amp sucked a little less.	
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Increased world drop chance from level 50 creaturesThese items have become substantially more likely to drop from creatures on landscape. They will still be rare, but not nearly so rare as they have been in the past. A very dedicated group could see these on a semi-regular basis. These items are trade-able.
 What exactly is the drop rate, how dedicated would a group have to be, can an individual see these ever? I have yet to see one drop, but see a lot of other purples drop especially grim grim stuff. Hope the drop chance was not increased on the wrong items...	
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			They WERE higher, I think they got mistakenly rolled back, or ninja patched with the medic revert. I got two before the revert, as well seeing them every 5 minutes in Illium and all over the CX. But since they reverted the medica back the CX has dried up and they are back to 40ish plat, and you nearly never see them in zone chat (at least not like you did those first two days). I've also farmed the same place I got two from In the first two days for several several hours....and not a one. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
They WERE higher, I think they got mistakenly rolled back, or ninja patched with the medic revert. I got two before the revert, as well seeing them every 5 minutes in Illium and all over the CX. But since they reverted the medica back the CX has dried up and they are back to 40ish plat, and you nearly never see them in zone chat (at least not like you did those first two days). I've also farmed the same place I got two from In the first two days for several several hours....and not a one. 
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			Over the course of the weekend I have seen one Ability Point and one AMP Point drop for members of my guild out and about.  One in CBL and one in NW.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Increased world drop chance from level 50 creatures
These items have become substantially more likely to drop from creatures on landscape. They will still be rare, but not nearly so rare as they have been in the past. A very dedicated group could see these on a semi-regular basis. These items are trade-able.
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I don't want to spread bad information but can Carbine confirm that there is not a regression issue with the Amp/Skill point patch from 9/11.
 
 
I say this for several reasons:
 
Preface: My guild has several very active farmers (20+ hours a week per person) that focus on three specific areas  of which contain only packs of level 50 mobs generally higher than fodder level.
 
1. Immediately after the patch we saw 3 drops. 2 amp points (both blighthaven) 1 ability point (northern wastes)
2. At least part of this patch was attempted to be rolled back, due to the medic change, then during this process Carbine determined there was an error in their tool/process and this was not successful. Several restarts later the medics reverted back to their prepatch state.
3. Since that occurred we have not seen either type, despite thousands of mobs killed and 100s of hours of farming. 
4. Initally we were seeing close to a half dozen amp and ability points on the auction house, lately there has been maybe 1 available. (This is not strong evidence though as one could assume that since there is a high demand and a low supply this would be so.) Just something I noted as unusal.  
5. We have shifted our farming to different mob types and locations in the last week or so and I would estimate that we have put in close to 40 hours without seeing either point.
 
While it is a very low chance for a drop I feel that we should have eventually seen one by sheer time and brute force. My only logical solutions here could be astronomically bad luck, a change, a regression issue, or there is some sort of internal cool-down on the ability for the item to drop so that play time can be extended. 
 
 
Edit: I somehow missed PaintedThantos's comment above. I totally agree with him and came to the same conclusion. I am leaving this comment as further evidence. 
 
Edit 2: I did some more investigation with some of the other guilds on Caretaker. It appears the only ones anyone has heard of/seen dropping are coming out of PVP bags. 	
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			Just gonna throw my two cents in here. I have never had an ability point or amp point drop in the game. I am no stranger to farming mobs on the off chance they will drop something of value. I have picked up a few items that either sell for good value or sell quickly for a decent price, but never a point increase. I recently made it a point to finish the I Like It Rare Achievement in all zones. No points from them either. I know it's a small sample size but I thought it might be worth noting.	
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