Report 1696

Report #1696
Skillset: Skill: Rooting
 Org: Hallifax Status: Completed Aug 2017
Furies' Decision:
Tentative approval with Ciaran and Tarken's changes.
Problem: Forced movement abilities are needed to counter things such as Bards,
Barrier, GPent, and for saving allies and splitting groups. Summon resist (aka
rooting) provides a way to counter this counter, however the random nature of
this and the sometimes very high amount of rooting able to be acquired with
various skills and artifacts can make this a very dubious proposition.
[A: 3 R: 8] Solution #1: Each failed force movement attempt will lower the
 target's rooting by 25% or [x, where x = 20% of
 cement socks rooting amount]. After being
 successfully moved, or after 15s from the last
 attempt, reset to their normal max.
Player Comments:
---[Shedrin on 8/12 @ 16:57 writes]:
Depending what happens with Bards this may not be as necessary to counter them,
but it's still a factor in other cases. Due to the vagueness of specific
summoning resist values, Solution 1 itself is a little vague. I trust the admins
will come up with a good number should the report be approved.
---[Shedrin on 8/12 @ 16:57 sets as pending]
---[Veyils on 8/13 @ 12:25 writes]:
15 seconds is too long for some effects. Passive movement shifts on demense
ticks would mean you'd eventually be moved 100% of the time by them even with
nothing else attempting to move you.
---[Veyils on 8/13 @ 12:28 writes]:
There are non-forced movement based things to counter most of the things you've
listed as well. I'm not a fan of the pure randomness of certain skill set ups
but that'd probally be better resolved by a report on these skills themself. I'm
very undecided about this report and the need for it as proposed and with the
current solution. Movement is a very very strong effect in group combat now and
this would be a very strong buff to it. I think I prefered the idea you spoke
about about a channeled power costing gust. This just doesnt feel right, maybe
with more tweaks but I'm not fully on board with this report right now.
---[Shedrin on 8/18 @ 00:38 writes]:
Being able to eventually guarantee a move is the point, yes. I don't consider
this would overly add to the Aquamesne burden compared to what it already does,
though I did support the previous report. That may be moot depending on what
happens with Mages, though. Agree that we should at individual cases and adjust
where necessary, though I think forced movement is an option which currently is
too inconsistent.
---[Ejderha on 8/21 @ 21:56 writes]:
What if the diminished rooting only applied to active movement effects, not
passive ones? So apply it to gusts, kicks, tackles, etc. but Aquamancer passive
movement would not degrade it.
---[Veyils on 8/27 @ 23:15 writes]:
Only active effects would fix that issue slightly I guess but I still think 15
seconds is way too long. I mean even with just using my beast balance to gust a
target and attacking normally I'm eventually going to get to the point solo
where I can 100% gust someone anytime I want. Drop the time down to a rolling 5
seconds. You keep gusting someone and eventually you'll get them moving but if
you stop and attack for a bit they'll get their resistance back.
---[Veyils on 8/27 @ 23:17 writes]:
Also 25% would be a bit too much as well. Your pretty much saying two people
gusting at once with their beasts is a 100% chance to gust. Gust allies and
enemies is a pretty strong and useful thing to do right now I don't think it
should be made too much easier. Dropping overall resistance by 10% would maybe
be ok.
---[Falaeron on 8/28 @ 01:20 writes]:
I agree that rooting is a problem, but I'm not really sure I like the solution
as it only attempts to fix the RNG nature of rooting. I think the other two
problems with rooting is that it seems to have no diminishing returns, or at
least you can get to really, really high levels where you are very unlikely to
be moved, and that the only real counter to some skills is gust/forced movement.
I'd like to see rooting at the highest levels be decreased, and perhaps slightly
increased at the lowest levels, as well as the use of some skills like barrier
and dsong/perfectfifth to also lower rooting significantly.
---[Anelissa on 8/28 @ 14:32 writes]:
To be honest, I am 100% against this solution and it's partially because I think
it would make bruising based monks (currently tahtetso and partially ninja) a
bit too strong. A lot of enemies (not including top tier fighters) can succumb
to heavy bruising if I lock them down. Bruising currently has a tic CD on
everything except movement, including forced movement. This will essentially
allow me to stack up bruising, and then gust spam someone for a lot of damage.
What stops this now is the mechanics of rooting and the likelihood that the
enemy will resist the move attempt, it is likely more advantageous for me to
continue my assault and get the enemy to run on his own. With that high timer
(15s from the last gust attempt) and my shortish balances, I'd eventually be
able to force 100% gust procs, at which point, with the enemy sufficiently
bruised, they won't be able to run because of bruising, and I can just continue
gusting them around the area for much more damage then I would be able to do
with my forms. At the very least, this will open up attempts for health/mana
pressure to make DeathTouch's more viable for bruising (which I'm not
necessarily against, but this isn't how I want to achieve it.) tldr, turtling is
one of the few ways to negate a bruising offense, and allowing me to negate
someones rooting entirely by spamming gust after every 3rd form is too much a
buff IMO.
---[Anelissa on 8/28 @ 14:34 writes]:
I also don't like that this will allow tarot users to eventually guarantee an
empress on an enemy or an ally, regardless of the rooting artifact. I don't feel
that empress really needs a buff like that this way. (I did have an idea for
empress to negate some rooting, but I think it being linked to all forms of
forced movement is a bit too easy).
---[Veyils on 8/29 @ 11:38 writes]:
Based on Ciaran's comments and because he's too lazy to comment himself "I think
if you take passive effects out of it, reset on forced movement. 5 seconds and
reduce the effectiveness to 15%" It'd be alright from there
---[Ciaran on 8/29 @ 11:39 writes]:
After discussion with Veyils, I like the mechanic, but with adjusted numbers,
and a few additional details: 5 seconds rolling timer, 15% rooting redux per
resisted movement, and the rooting reduction is reset on movement.
---[Veyils on 8/29 @ 11:45 writes]:
I'm honestly wary about this. This works out as a buff to basically all movement
abilities which well I don't really think things like Scissorkick/currents/etc
need a buff. I'd much prefer an alternative solution to high movement resistance
than a flat blanket buff to all movement effects.
---[Tarken on 8/30 @ 02:14 writes]:
I can get on board with this with Ciaran's proposed numbers, but do agree with
Veyils that I'd prefer something that targeted high rooting people specifically
rather than just buffing movement skills. What if this rooting debuff had a
lower bound. So for instance, let's say 40%. Anyone with 40% or lower rooting
would be unaffected by this debuff. Say I have 55% rooting and Shedrin gusts me
and the gust fails. My rooting would then drop to 40%, but if he then gusted me
again (and failed again) I would not then drop lower, because my rooting is
already at the lower bound. 40 is a illustrative value, I have not thought out
that specific number at all.