117562-merge-warhound-and-entity

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When the population rebounds, you can open more servers. That's generally how it works.
 
I think having carebear zones is a fine tradeoff for having people to play / raid with. I for one am tired of having only 20 people in illium during primetime. That doesn't feel mega or massively multiplayer. 
 
After playing WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2 etc, all I can think about is-- where are all of the people?	
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			This will never happen. Transfer off or they should develop a way for an entire guild to transfer.	
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			I like my Warhound separate thank you very much, ganking and being ganked is fun.	
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			LMAO no. Eclips must be after the crown of bad ideas.	
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ummm might want to remove Warhammer from that list since....it literally is dead. Much as I miss playing, it's dead...
 
Anyway people have the option to freely transfer as they see fit between the two.  Those who want to be on a PvP server can remain on Warhound and those who want to be on PvE can remain/transfer to Entity...	
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LMAO no. Eclips must be after the crown of bad ideas.
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I don't play on Warhound so it's hard for me to understand exactly where you're coming from. However something that was true on Evindra and seems to bare true for Entity as well is that I see more people in housing plots(especially the more open public event oriented ones that RPers tend to use) than people sitting in areas like the AH/CX, craft stations, etc...
 
Open world it's a mix bag, that leveling up tends to be a tad empty; However you get something like R12 going and everyone seems to come out of the wood work.
 
If anything maybe having "dynamic scaled" events like that of GW2 world bosses/events would help. I personally enjoy R12 and would like to see more like that throughout the world...	
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			I play Wildstar because I have more fun in it than any other game, and I found a group of people that feel the same way I do and play at similar times (a guild).  I never have problems getting/forming groups, or getting/receiving help.  I don't feel that having a thousand people in a capital would change anything for me.  I don't suddenly have more fun standing in a capital because there are more people doing likewise.	
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When the population rebounds, you can open more servers. That's generally how it works.
 
I think having carebear zones is a fine tradeoff for having people to play / raid with. I for one am tired of having only 20 people in illium during primetime. That doesn't feel mega or massively multiplayer.
 
After playing WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2 etc, all I can think about is-- where are all of the people?
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Here's another thought.  If they say the populations are healthy, and there aren't too many people around the capitols.  They must be doing something in the game.  I hear complaints all the time in games like WoW simply BECAUSE there's so many people standing around the capitols.  They say there isn't anything to do in the game, so they are in the cities waiting for something to happen.
 
Now it's decidedly less fun and the game is dead because people are not in the cities.  It must really be a pain in the rear to be a game developer.	
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Until drops 3 and 4 are released, and/or the game goes F2P (for better or worse), I don't see the population changing much. It is what it is, and merging the PVP server doesn't seem like a great solution. A lot of PVPers would likely just quit and what you gain from the merge could be in jeopardy.
 
Your best bet is to transfer to Entity if you don't care about PVP. Right now, in the middle of a pretty serious lull, I'm seeing about 30+ people at the western auction during prime time. It's not WoW but it's enough for me to feel comfortable. Once dungeons are properly rewarding players, a few more incentives are given for alts, and the housing changes hit with drop 3, I think the game will be fine.
 
One other thing to consider: I played on Shadow Council in WoW for years and it had a terrible population. WoW has over 200 servers and plenty of them have been nearly dead for over a year, but the communities were still decent. Small ponds can provide a very comfortable environment, though I understand that some folks like the feeling of a crowd. I'm personally on the fence; playing on WoW's more populated servers makes me feel like an anonymous, insignificant drop, whereas a low-medium population usually creates a tighter community and more opportunity to form friendships, but isn't a great place to find groups for raids and such.	
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Go make some friends.
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Pretty sure the only way to get that is off the corpse of Carbine Studios.
 
Please address the topic, not your personal feelings toward me.
 
On topic : I just don't think the game feels very massive. I come to a mmo expecting to see a ton of people at the ah/CX, a large number at the PvP vendor, a large number at the crafting areas. You don't really see that in this game, at least on warhound. I know people aren't in bgs / dungeons because I'm sitting in queue for them for 30 minutes at a time.
 
In aion, I used to see 200+ people on the regular. In wow I used to get spammed in trade chat all day long. In warhammer you could always find 20+ people after an objective. In ffxiv you can go and see the 30+ people just hanging out in EACH of the different main cities or the central hub.
 
Maybe its because those games invited people to play with each other. People needed access to crafters to make gear and raid on the regular.
 
Maybe if this game had elder gem daily bonuses for running dungeons / PvP etc. People could log in for an hour a day and get a chunk of their elder gems capped.
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Go make some friends. People who PUG in MMOs are stupid. Join a guild build a crew of people you enjoy chilling with.
 
Seems you are the issue at hand not allowing things to work out unless they are for you. Go to the PVE server since that's what you want. 
 
To merg servers and kill OWPVP is stupid all because YOU can't do PVE. Seems you are so selfish with all your posts. You always seem to think you know best and you are the GOD video game dev. 
 
Seems you need to just QUIT wildstar and move on. You crying each day won't get you anywhere since YOU NEVER POST ANY REAL FACT or INTELLIGENT REBUTTALS BESIDES DON'T ATTACK ME ATTACK CARBINE. GAME NEEDS TO BE LIKE THIS AND THAT SINCE I SAID SO.
 
Post on reddit more crying since guess what. Nothing will happen since your ideas are just straight up ignorant.
 
 
PS TRANSFERS ARE FREE GO USE THEM
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 I shouldn't be asked to transfer just to find groups.  
 
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Well this escalated quickly....
 
I'm curious why don't you just transfer with your friends? I'd genuinely like to know the reason you don't use this opportunity that sounds like it would help you...	
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Well this escalated quickly....
 
I'm curious why don't you just transfer with your friends? I'd genuinely like to know the reason you don't use this opportunity that sounds like it would help you...
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So you want them to do away with PvP servers and move your character for you because you can't be arsed to press the "transfer character" button a few times?
 
Let me know how that works out for you.
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Are you implying that I should transfer to a different server just to be able to have a population that sustains casual group making?
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			Have you tried speaking with people on Entity to arrange a community cross server grouping/pvp thing? you can do cross faction grouping with friends and such...and sure you could arrange for BG queue times as well.	
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If you are unhappy with the way it is right now?  Um, yes?
 
If your friends actually come back for Drop 3, then transfer back.  It is only a 7 day cooldown on transfers, and since there is no such thing as open world PvP, why would it matter?
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Doesn't that make it worse for other people that are left on Warhound?  If we tell everyone to transfer if they're not finding groups, we'll have a Jabbit / Luminai situation in NA.
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looks like thats already the case.
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			Just saying, the solution is within your capabilities at the expense of the muscle expenditure of a mouse click or two.  Saying "I shouldn't have to switch" is also saying that other people should switch to your server so you can feel better.  I'm sorry but this reads a little emo.  You CAN solve your problem, but you openly refuse to, and continue to complain about it.	
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Hey Folks - 
 
Let's get this topic back on civil ground. No attacking each other, and please keep all commentary on-topic. We hate closing topics, and dishing out warnings isn't all that fun either. 
 
Cheers,
Team WildStar	
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Just saying, the solution is within your capabilities at the expense of the muscle expenditure of a mouse click or two.  Saying "I shouldn't have to switch" is also saying that other people should switch to your server so you can feel better.  I'm sorry but this reads a little emo.  You CAN solve your problem, but you openly refuse to, and continue to complain about it.
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If bringing all the people from Warhound over to Entity was as simple as mouseclick, I'd have already done it.
 
The point is, in order for a game to feel massive and servers to feel like mega servers--- you need people.  I don't think the playerbase should have to choose between having 20 people in illium just to gank people in world pvp, versus having 60 people in illium to group up, craft, have a healthy MMO economy with, etc.
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Are you implying that I should transfer to a different server just to be able to have a population that sustains casual group making?
 
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Guess we should merge the servers then
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If bringing all the people from Warhound over to Entity was as simple as mouseclick, I'd have already done it.
 
The point is, in order for a game to feel massive and servers to feel like mega servers--- you need people.  I don't think the playerbase should have to choose between having 20 people in illium just to gank people in world pvp, versus having 60 people in illium to group up, craft, have a healthy MMO economy with, etc.
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If bringing all the people from Warhound over to Entity was as simple as mouseclick, I'd have already done it.
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OH!  I see the problem now.  You don't like having to choose, so you want the game developers to choose for you and then force that choice on everyone else as well.
 
That's much more reasonable!  Carry on.
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			You know being on Luminai, I wouldn't want pvp server to be merged into pve. There's a reason why I'm on the pvp ruleset. 	
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I'm wondering if it could be possible though.Having just one Megaserver. Upon character creation (or merge) people would choose to either be perma PVP flagged or having the choice like on a regular PvE server.
Those who choose PvP could have a special costume (a hat for example) and a title. Some incentive to allow more people to chose PvP and also a way to make them stand out visually so others may know them from regular players in the open world.I don't know if it would be enough.And I've never really played on a PvP server though, so I'm not sure if there's other differences than being perma flagged.	
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I'm wondering if it could be possible though.
Having just one Megaserver. Upon character creation (or merge) people would choose to either be perma PVP flagged or having the choice like on a regular PvE server.
Those who choose PvP could have a special costume (a hat for example) and a title. Some incentive to allow more people to chose PvP and also a way to make them stand out visually so others may know them from regular players in the open world.
 
I don't know if it would be enough.
And I've never really played on a PvP server though, so I'm not sure if there's other differences than being perma flagged.
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Wouldn't it be nice if the trending problems about server population / roster bosses etc were effectively minimized by Carbine's decisions?
 
Please, try and look at the bigger picture.
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Dont get me wrong I am all for one big server if they can successfully satisfy both sides.
 
But thats a big undertaking.  And its not something thats going to happen in the near future.  They have laid out their roadmap for the rest of the year.  Thats Drop 3 release.... getting Drop 4 polished up and ready for the beginning of next year.	
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Well it only took 2 pages of flaming and rage to get to the content of the post, but I'm glad we're here now.
 
Kinetic, I'm aware that it's all a big undertaking, and I agree with you.  I think they should focus on the MOST important things for now.  In my opinion, one of the most important things is player perception.
 
The sooner they start working on the important things, the better, imo.	
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			This will not happen, right now there are simply more important issues at hand then more server merges. Once those are dealt with then carbine can start looking at servers again. Servers are one of the things that are going GOOD for carbine. Free transfers make that even better! 
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2014 by BusterCasey	
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@OP
 
No to the server merge.
 
If the PvE server sounds attractive to you, that's fine, but everyone else that's on Warhound needs to be able to make their own decision, not have it made for them.
 
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Those who choose PvP could have a special costume (a hat for example) and a title. Some incentive to allow more people to chose PvP and also a way to make them stand out visually so others may know them from regular players in the open world.
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@OP
 
No to the server merge.
 
If the PvE server sounds attractive to you, that's fine, but everyone else that's on Warhound needs to be able to make their own decision, not have it made for them.
 
 
A hat and/or title versus a permanent flag? I really don't think that would be much incentive at all.
 
No, if Carbine wants wPvP to be a thing, they're going to have to come up with objectives in the open world that make people want to fight over them. Right now, the only thing out there that's even close is the daily zones, which is a truly lackluster "objective" and just ends up being constant ganking. The entire concept of dailies is irritating enough as it is, let alone when you add in ganking.
 
If you want to encourage people to do wPvP, there needs to be content for wPvP. The PvP server needs to offer something that the PvE server doesn't, such as open world control points that deny access to quest hubs, buff stations, conveniences, etc., that would actually give wPvP direction and a sense of purpose.
 
Right now, those types of wPvP objectives don't exist, and for those of us who are only moderately interested in wPvP, the PvP server does not have nearly enough purpose to outweigh the irritation of the perma-flag rule. Those of us who are sitting on the fence are the ones that Carbine needs to win over to wPvP for the health of the PvP server.
 
Removing the PvP server ruleset is not the answer. Coming up with ways to make people actually want to play wPvP is.
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When the population rebounds, you can open more servers. That's generally how it works.
 
I think having carebear zones is a fine tradeoff for having people to play / raid with. I for one am tired of having only 20 people in illium during primetime. That doesn't feel mega or massively multiplayer. 
 
After playing WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2 etc, all I can think about is-- where are all of the people?
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Hey Eclips, buy a new copy of wildstar for eu and come see a dead pvp server for yourself dude. 
 
For the people telling us to "MOVE PVE NOW U HAVE TO LOLOLOLOL", you do realise some of us bought this game to pvp exclusively right? I want to play on a server with a pvp ruleset, it's what I'm used to and it is what I enjoy. As for the sheeples who moved servers JUST BECAUSE of the bandwagon, who are now ganging up on the people who wish to stay on pvp servers, give it a break will you? We are as important as you are for content, and should be updated equally so, stop with the "we're pve so we deserve updates more than you, so stop whining". Funny word, equality... 	
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Hey Eclips, buy a new copy of wildstar for eu and come see a dead pvp server for yourself dude. 
 
For the people telling us to "MOVE PVE NOW U HAVE TO LOLOLOLOL", you do realise some of us bought this game to pvp exclusively right? I want to play on a server with a pvp ruleset, it's what I'm used to and it is what I enjoy. As for the sheeples who moved servers JUST BECAUSE of the bandwagon, who are now ganging up on the people who wish to stay on pvp servers, give it a break will you? We are as important as you are for content, and should be updated equally so, stop with the "we're pve so we deserve updates more than you, so stop whining". Funny word, equality... 
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			If we would get some updates, and our lead dev didn't just get the sack I actually could believe you Kinetic.	
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Hey Eclips, buy a new copy of wildstar for eu and come see a dead pvp server for yourself dude. 
 
For the people telling us to "MOVE PVE NOW U HAVE TO LOLOLOLOL", you do realise some of us bought this game to pvp exclusively right? I want to play on a server with a pvp ruleset, it's what I'm used to and it is what I enjoy. As for the sheeples who moved servers JUST BECAUSE of the bandwagon, who are now ganging up on the people who wish to stay on pvp servers, give it a break will you? We are as important as you are for content, and should be updated equally so, stop with the "we're pve so we deserve updates more than you, so stop whining". Funny word, equality...
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			da fudge did I just read?	
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			Maybe I play open world pvp wrong, but isn't ganking what it's all about? I mean...you see someone from another faction , and you attack them as you would in any pvp title.	
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Maybe I play open world pvp wrong, but isn't ganking what it's all about? I mean...you see someone from another faction , and you attack them as you would in any pvp title.
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Well it only took 2 pages of flaming and rage to get to the content of the post, but I'm glad we're here now.
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Consider it for a moment, what really does a PvP server have that a pve server does not?
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Rapakoshi, 2 questions: what other MMOs have you played that lead you to your preferred type of PvP? 
 
And...
 
What on earth makes you think that system is either easy or a good idea? Do you even PvP in games at all?	
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what other MMOs have you played that lead you to your preferred type of PvP?
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Okay, since I guess our mindsets our so far off from each other, I'll pose some simpler questions.
 
What MMOs have you pvpd in in the past, and how did you feel their systems impacted your preferred style of PvP?
 
Second, your idea seems very out of whack. Too much clutter. It seems like a very poor idea. Your idea is very much from a pve players perspective. Not liking a zone that has rewards that you have to flag for? That's like saying a pvper wouldn't like a zone with NPCs in it... And we have 5-7 of those.
 
Honestly that's probably the worst idea I've heard about merging rulesets, ever.
 
The biggest problem is that it limits players-- limiting players is a bad idea and is basically the premise of this entire post. Right now I can only play with other people that are: dominion, warhound. Really, I should be able to play with anyone I want, but to some that's asking too much.
 
Maybe if this game was more alt friendly...	
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Okay, since I guess our mindsets our so far off from each other, I'll pose some simpler questions.
 
What MMOs have you pvpd in in the past, and how did you feel their systems impacted your preferred style of PvP?
 
Second, your idea seems very out of whack. Too much clutter. It seems like a very poor idea. Your idea is very much from a pve players perspective. Not liking a zone that has rewards that you have to flag for? That's like saying a pvper wouldn't like a zone with NPCs in it... And we have 5-7 of those.
 
Honestly that's probably the worst idea I've heard about merging rulesets, ever.
 
The biggest problem is that it limits players-- limiting players is a bad idea and is basically the premise of this entire post. Right now I can only play with other people that are: dominion, warhound. Really, I should be able to play with anyone I want, but to some that's asking too much.
 
Maybe if this game was more alt friendly...
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Merge would be great, in case they actually would make this
*choose either PvP or PvE character thing*
 
But merge into 1 big PvE server will just get ppl to flip.
Im 90% PvP player in this game, so it would actually be good for me/us either way since I'm/we are already in PvE server.
But the whining after.. all the whimpering.. no normal person can handle that.
And shouldnt. So only way to get merge work would be this permatag choice. I defenately would want free hat + title.
 
+1 for Free hat!	
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A hat and/or title versus a permanent flag? I really don't think that would be much incentive at all.
 
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			I would be all in favor of merging the pve server to Warhound. Make it happen Carbine. Great idea eclips	
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Im 90% PvP player in this game, so it would actually be good for me/us either way since I'm/we are already in PvE server.
 
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You might be 90% pvp player but you still left, instead of banding together with the other pvp guilds on dom side Lumi to make a community worth bringing people back and instead keep making little digs by making "where did my guild go" posts on the luminai instead of Jabbit forum to try and entice more people over there, just because you do not agree with some opinions (mostly I, admittedly) people have had on the forums.
 
I am not picking you out as a target, it's just this whole community is Fxcked and I think the only way of fixing it now, at least for EU, is to merge the servers with phasing. /shrug
 
Come on, not all of us have moved there. Plenty more on NA Warhound than Luminai sure, but the Warhound pop was a lot stronger in general than Lumi, seen as the biggest guilds left Hazak when they HAD to (but didn't want to)
 
I'm all for merging with phases. But I'm not, NOT leaving Luminai. I chose to be a pvper and I will stay on my pvp server til they force me to a pve server, that's just how I chose to play and make fun in my game. I shouldn't have to force a guild of my friends go onto a server they feel uncomfortable going to...
 
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			True, and we can always pop to thayd if we wanna have a chat and kill you :)	
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When the population rebounds, you can open more servers. That's generally how it works.
 
I think having carebear zones is a fine tradeoff for having people to play / raid with. I for one am tired of having only 20 people in illium during primetime. That doesn't feel mega or massively multiplayer.
 
After playing WoW, Aion, Warhammer Online, Guild Wars 2 etc, all I can think about is-- where are all of the people?
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I think you could could do with more hyperbole in your posts.
 
PvE and PvP servers have an extremely different feel to them when you are in the open world. You simply can't merge the two without some fundamental changes to game mechanics. I described how it would be possible here: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/116587-hosting-pvp-and-pve-players-on-the-same-server/
 
However, that would be a significant change, and the Devs are focussing on more pressing issues.
 
Summary:
 
1. Two player groups, PvP and PvE
2. Neither can hurt each other.
3. Neither can heal damage caused by the other.
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Second, your idea seems very out of whack. Too much clutter. It seems like a very poor idea.
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Did you even read my idea?
 
It's a crapload better than your idea. Your original post was summed up nicely by Old Man Tek: "Eclips must be after the crown of bad ideas."
 
Your idea: Merge a PvE and a PvP server onto a PvE server, ignoring anyone who likes a PvP server.
 
My Idea: Merge a PvE and a PvP server onto a new style of server that preserves a PvE experience for PvE players and a PvP experience for PvP players.
 
I explained why I think my idea is a good one. Please explain why you think it is a bad one. Not "out of whack", not "too much clutter", please try for a real reason that actually makes sense, and relates to how the idea might affect the game.
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OK I'm in the moving truck at the moment but when I get my PC set up again I'll tell you why your idea is horrendous.
 
Hint: just because you say things doesn't make it true. Pve ruleset with open world pvp zones added in to the future sounds a whole lot better than healing someone who doesn't take heals from my skills
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Pve ruleset with open world pvp zones added in to the future sounds a whole lot better than healing someone who doesn't take heals from my skills
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I'm wondering if it could be possible though.
Having just one Megaserver. Upon character creation (or merge) people would choose to either be perma PVP flagged or having the choice like on a regular PvE server.
Those who choose PvP could have a special costume (a hat for example) and a title. Some incentive to allow more people to chose PvP and also a way to make them stand out visually so others may know them from regular players in the open world.
I don't know if it would be enough.
And I've never really played on a PvP server though, so I'm not sure if there's other differences than being perma flagged.
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While I don't mind the idea of phasing (the RP crowd has tried to get phasing, too, so it would solve two similar issues with alternate rulesets), I'm not sure how it would resolve the low population issue.
 
To me, it seems like the problem is general lack of interest in wPvP (obviously not including those of you who are dedicated PvP server players), as ultimately wPvP is the purpose of PvP servers.
 
If you merge Warhound and Entity, yes, you'll have a ton of people all on one server, and that's awesome. But then if you take Warhound's whole population and put them in a PvP phase anyway...wouldn't that end up being very similar to the current situation, as everyone is still separated?
 
Or is the phasing suggestion just so that everyone can move back and forth from the PvE to PvP rulesets without any limitations? If that's the goal, I still think wPvP needs its own content/objectives to encourage people's interest.	
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Did you even read my idea?
 
It's a crapload better than your idea. Your original post was summed up nicely by Old Man Tek: "Eclips must be after the crown of bad ideas."
 
Your idea: Merge a PvE and a PvP server onto a PvE server, ignoring anyone who likes a PvP server.
 
My Idea: Merge a PvE and a PvP server onto a new style of server that preserves a PvE experience for PvE players and a PvP experience for PvP players.
 
I explained why I think my idea is a good one. Please explain why you think it is a bad one. Not "out of whack", not "too much clutter", please try for a real reason that actually makes sense, and relates to how the idea might affect the game.
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While I don't mind the idea of phasing (the RP crowd has tried to get phasing, too, so it would solve two similar issues with alternate rulesets), I'm not sure how it would resolve the low population issue.
 
To me, it seems like the problem is general lack of interest in wPvP (obviously not including those of you who are dedicated PvP server players), as ultimately wPvP is the purpose of PvP servers.
 
If you merge Warhound and Entity, yes, you'll have a ton of people all on one server, and that's awesome. But then if you take Warhound's whole population and put them in a PvP phase anyway...wouldn't that end up being very similar to the current situation, as everyone is still separated?
 
Or is the phasing suggestion just so that everyone can move back and forth from the PvE to PvP rulesets without any limitations? If that's the goal, I still think wPvP needs its own content/objectives to encourage people's interest.
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Wow. It's like talking to a wall. Please have another read of my idea: The full description of my proposal is here: https://forums.wilds...he-same-server/
 
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Why should I as a pvp flagged player not be able to heal someone who is dying to a pve mob?
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I really like that idea of controlling Northern Waste or Blighthaven. And with that faction that controls it, the entire server receives some sort out reward buff (like extra gold or exp. I wouldn't make it prestige or renown buff, as many don't do PvP or group up. And this could work on PvE servers as well). 
And to prevent one faction from dominating control, there could be a debuff added to those who enter the area during reset of zone event. Not a huge debuff, just big enough to know that the controlling faction will need extra people to help fight to keep control when the PvP zone event resets. 
Anyway, great idea with plenty of doable material there, just saying ;)
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You lose every bit of the immersion desired in a game when you let people be solely pvp or pve.
 
Rapakoshi, there is no way I would ever be in favor of a game that is set up in the way that you've described.  I know that you picked out the 1 part of my post which technically I was wrong, but remember:  you're looking through the eyes of a pve'r. 
 
I'm old school and I come from games where everyone was always open to attack.  You warded off would be attackers by grouping up and making friends / guilds to protect yourselves while you do PvE / level.  This to me, is what an MMO is all about.  Flagging / being unflagged?  That's not PvP.  That's simply ganking / jumping people trying to level.
 
So I understand how you could come to this conclusion that pve and pvp players could coexist as flagged.  From the mind of a player who likes PvP, that's just poor design and a poor game.  As far as general immersion and quality of life goes--- I've outlined it in my other posts.  Except for the one line where I miswrote how I interpreted your long and pointless post, the rest of that is good content, and you should read it.
 
 
But just to get back on topic:  This discussion isn't about pvp and pve servers, it's about merging the last 2 servers to keep and support a population.  This game is far too instanced etc to support any type of meaningful open world pvp, so we're really not missing out. The best choice would be to take a WoW approach, (even though this game has just devolved into a broken WoW clone), and add objectives / meaningful pvp zones, in an otherwise pve world.
 
Like I was saying before, OPvP should be about controlling meaningful objectives / zones.  If the best farming spots are camped by PvP players, so that their guildies can farm there, that's a good thing for world pvp.  If pve players can simply go and farm them without ever being approached by PvP players, the entire idea is shot.  Higher risk, higher reward.
 
Right now in Wildstar, there is virtually no risk and no reward for world pvp.  Either the management should cut their losses and merge the servers, or add some risk/reward imo to give people a reason to be on Warhound.	
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I think at the very least allow for CX and AH to be cross server. I think a PvX server would be overall beneficial for the health of the game. More players for both guilds to choose from. The common misconception I see in this thread is that there is rampant ganking back and forth on PvP servers. This is just not true. Infact, it makes forming bonds with other members of the faction that much more interesting since you're enemies.
 
Now, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. One of the primary examples is Aion. If Wildstar were to merge to a system that's purely PvX then there would need to be "Fast-track Servers" for leveling chars to be safe. This sort of gets rid of the whole getting ganked by 50's while you're 20 problem.
 
To keep things short, overall world PvP is not as frequent as you may think since most people don't want to be bothered trying to kill another player while in the wrong LAS and no PvP gear. Also, PVP encourages both sides to come out and play. It really almost in no way affects your PvE experience. You are still instanced and there a re plenty of other zones to explore in to complete other quests for daily upkeep.
 
A full merge of two servers simply benefits everyone.	
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Naw. Special areas for PvP? Really?
 
I can see merging the servers if they are left as they are with only a couple special rules. 10 minutes to flag for PvP ( so no just jumping in at the last second) and the PvP flag stays active for 24 hours from the moment it is turned off. Special rules and special zones would not blend well with a PvE server.	
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Good stuff.
 
 
i don't mean this in a angry/hostile/doomsayer tone, just expressing my perception based upon their past actions:  If another merger happens, they won't care one lick what we think, they'll do it to further reduce overhead and any subs they lose will be offset by simplified costs and they'll tell PvPers the same thing they told RPers prior to the megaserver, deal with it. <_<
 
  
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>>> Rapakoshi, there is no way I would ever be in favor of a game that is set up in the way that you've described.  
 
I'm not surprised. You clearly don't understand what I am proposing. I've tried a lot of things, but you just don't get it. This is a problem I cannot solve. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
 
>>> but remember:  you're looking through the eyes of a pve'r. 
 
What? Really? You got even that wrong? I've *always* played PvP as a preference on *every* MMO I have ever played. 
 
>>> Flagging / being unflagged?  That's not PvP.  That's simply ganking / jumping people trying to level.
 
Finally, we agree on something. Unfortunately you don't even realise that we agree on this.
 
>>> So I understand how you could come to this conclusion that pve and pvp players could coexist as flagged.  
 
I really don't think you do. "Flagged" is the wrong word, it implies you can changed the flag. I'm just proposing that they coexist.
 
>>> Except for the one line where I miswrote how I interpreted your long and pointless post, the rest of that is good content, and you should read it.
 
I did read it, I disagree with you about it being good content. I wish you'd read my posts too. I have little hope of this now though, as you are dismissing my posts as pointless, without fully understanding them.
 
>>> But just to get back on topic:  This discussion isn't about pvp and pve servers, it's about merging the last 2 servers to keep and support a population.
 
Again, you're so off target it's difficult to work out how to communicate with you. Merging a PvP and a PvE server is *ALL* about PvE and PvP servers. Telling the PvP players who enjoy playing on the PvP server that *you* have decided it's better for them to become a PvE server is both arrogant and short-sighted.	
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I wasn't going to comment, but this is getting increasingly ridiculous.
 
Just an FYI to anybody 'important' reading this: vast majority of folks discussing are coming from a mostly PVE bias mindset and don't represent Warhound, nor understand the desire to play on a PVP server. To put it in a simple way to understand, would you support a flagging system in DayZ? "Hey zombie/player, hold on! Let's fight! I'll flag myself one sec, just got done looting all my gear." We enjoy the danger. The risk/reward, being the bad guy or good guy, building a reputation. We don't enjoy being ganked, but that's part of the experience. It gets the heart racing, yes it's frustrating, but you come on top by pulling together allies to fight back. People argue that the day-to-day fighting is all at the daily zones, well that's where people are right now! So what? And I know for a fact that majority of folks would agree that watching people running around without being flagged would completely take them out of the experience of 'everyone is in danger, including me.' that comes from a PVP server. We have sizable pvp skirmishes on the daily, organize big world pvp events/raids, and yeah what you call 'real pvp' aka instanced stuff. The IRONY of this is Warhound still comprises majority of most instanced pvp, and have the most competitive players/guilds. We have to get premade teams cross-faction communicating to get queues to pop sometimes! You guys don't PVP as much, which is fine, but don't tell us what real pvp is. World PVP is just as much real pvp, the fact you dislike it doesn't matter. Your opinion isn't fact. Your preference is yours, not ours. extremely simple/reasonable request: Cross server auction house and moderate server transfers from folks coming over to exploit/poach and spam main city zone chat with toxicity. You want Wildstar to get bigger? Tell your friends. Get others in the game. Make fan content. Organize events. Make leveling circles and seek out new players to help. Merging PVE/PVP servers will not help Wildstar as whole. Warhound is not your solution. Instanced PVP zones suck, Ilum was one of the biggest mistakes SWTOR made. Wildstar would be wise to learn from that colossal mistake. The only way I could see it hosted on the same server, is if it's so heavily instanced that PVP/PVE players are completely segregated. Warhound is fine, drop 3 is coming, and we have tons of competitive PVP'ers waiting to jump back in. Once we start getting the PVP season going correctly it'll be huge for us. Recently we've had some guild mergers/restructuring and are getting some really strong raiding guilds on the PVE front full of awesome people, exile side included. Things are looking good. Events get bigger every week. I get messages of people saying they resubbed specifically to participate in our events. We are fine. What entity needs is community focus, and not seeking poaching band-aids that harms wildstar and doesn't last.
 
 
/rant-that-I-wish-I-didn't-have-to-do	
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Agree with all of the above, especially this:
 
{| class="blockquote"
extremely simple/reasonable request: Cross server auction house and moderate server transfers from folks coming over to exploit/poach and spam main city zone chat with toxicity. You want Wildstar to get bigger? Tell your friends. Get others in the game. Make fan content. Organize events. Make leveling circles and seek out new players to help. Merging PVE/PVP servers will not help Wildstar as whole.
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Instanced PVP zones suck, Ilum was one of the biggest mistakes SWTOR made. Wildstar would be wise to learn from that colossal mistake.
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I wasn't going to comment, but this is getting increasingly ridiculous.
 
Just an FYI to anybody 'important' reading this: vast majority of folks discussing are coming from a mostly PVE bias mindset and don't represent Warhound, nor understand the desire to play on a PVP server. To put it in a simple way to understand, would you support a flagging system in DayZ? "Hey zombie/player, hold on! Let's fight! I'll flag myself one sec, just got done looting all my gear." We enjoy the danger. The risk/reward, being the bad guy or good guy, building a reputation. We don't enjoy being ganked, but that's part of the experience. It gets the heart racing, yes it's frustrating, but you come on top by pulling together allies to fight back. People argue that the day-to-day fighting is all at the daily zones, well that's where people are right now! So what? And I know for a fact that majority of folks would agree that watching people running around without being flagged would completely take them out of the experience of 'everyone is in danger, including me.' that comes from a PVP server. 
 
We have sizable pvp skirmishes on the daily, organize big world pvp events/raids, and yeah what you call 'real pvp' aka instanced stuff. The IRONY of this is Warhound still comprises majority of most instanced pvp, and have the most competitive players/guilds. We have to get premade teams cross-faction communicating to get queues to pop sometimes! You guys don't PVP as much, which is fine, but don't tell us what real pvp is. World PVP is just as much real pvp, the fact you dislike it doesn't matter. Your opinion isn't fact. Your preference is yours, not ours. 
 
extremely simple/reasonable request: Cross server auction house and moderate server transfers from folks coming over to exploit/poach and spam main city zone chat with toxicity. You want Wildstar to get bigger? Tell your friends. Get others in the game. Make fan content. Organize events. Make leveling circles and seek out new players to help. Merging PVE/PVP servers will not help Wildstar as whole. 
 
Warhound is not your solution. Instanced PVP zones suck, Ilum was one of the biggest mistakes SWTOR made. Wildstar would be wise to learn from that colossal mistake. The only way I could see it hosted on the same server, is if it's so heavily instanced that PVP/PVE players are completely segregated. 
 
Warhound is fine, drop 3 is coming, and we have tons of competitive PVP'ers waiting to jump back in. Once we start getting the PVP season going correctly it'll be huge for us. Recently we've had some guild mergers/restructuring and are getting some really strong raiding guilds on the PVE front full of awesome people, exile side included. Things are looking good. Events get bigger every week. I get messages of people saying they resubbed specifically to participate in our events. We are fine. What entity needs is community focus, and not seeking poaching band-aids that harms wildstar and doesn't last.
 
 
/rant-that-I-wish-I-didn't-have-to-do
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My own main interest is PvE, but I've done a lot of PvPing over the years and even spent a fair amount of time in some of the smaller games where the PvE content fizzled out and the PvP was really the only substantial content. So I like to think that I understand the general concerns of both groups of players. I haven't PvPed here a lot, but I've done it enough to see the basics of how it plays out. 
 
If I've understood your idea correctly, Rakaposhi--and I did read your OP in the thread you linked, my apologies if the idea has been substantially refined since then--basically the idea is to decide when you make a character "This one's PvP" or "This one's PvE" and that determines whether they can interact with each other for combat purposes even if they're standing right next to each other.
 
It's an interesting concept, but one that misses an important point. Although some of the people who PvE will never enjoy PvP and never want to participate, most people on PvE servers do like to PvP when they find approximately fair competitors to fight. They like to fight by mutual consent. They just don't like fights that are imposed on them.
 
If you say "well, no more flags because PvE and PvP are separated", you just took away the PvEer's option to PvP when they can find opponents who want to fight with them. No thanks.
If you say "well, you can only change your flag in a capital city", every time a group of PvPers decides to objective-camp, everyone else in the game has to hike back to the capital. No thanks.
If you say "well, you can only change your flag once every day", most PvEers will simply never change their flag for 10 minutes of impromptu fight if it exposes them to a day full of ganking. No thanks.
 
But in all honesty, I'm actually LESS fond of Eclips's idea than I am of Rakaposhi's. I've seen a lot of games that had some zones that were PvP-only with objectives to be fought over. CoX put vast amounts of time and energy into them. SWTOR had them as well. Compared to the PvE only zones at the same levels, they were ghost towns in both games--PvP in those zones was relatively rare any time except peak hours, and at all other times it was a faction-based gank fest where some idiot PvP developer decided to use "incentives" to coax PvEers into a zone they didn't want to be in, where they would be clobbered repeatedly by larger groups of bored PvPers looking for ANYTHING to do--except, of course, make an alt on the other faction so that they could fight against each other rather than with each other. No thanks.
 
As far as I'm concerned, the separation of PvE and PvP servers has less to do with actual PvP and PvE than it does with playstyle. It separates players who find it fun to either force or be forced from players who don't. If there's just not that enough people in the former group for it to sustain itself, the answer is not to move them in with the latter group and come up with contexts to remove the latter group's ability to say no. If they wanted that kind of PvP, they'd be on the PvP server. If they're not, then you wouldn't be playing with them anyway.
 
Back when you couldn't transfer from PvE to PvP servers, I could see why the PvP server residents were upset. Now that this limitation is gone, the size of the PvP server's population is a much more accurate reflection of how many people prefer the "force or be forced" mindset. If that doesn't provide people on the PvP server with enough opponents to keep them interested, I'm not sure what to say except "I want to support your right to have fun, up to but not including the point where it's obtained at the expense of my own."	
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Back when you couldn't transfer from PvE to PvP servers, I could see why the PvP server residents were upset. Now that this limitation is gone, the size of the PvP server's population is a much more accurate reflection of how many people prefer the "force or be forced" mindset. If that doesn't provide people on the PvP server with enough opponents to keep them interested, I'm not sure what to say except "I want to support your right to have fun, up to but not including the point where it's obtained at the expense of my own."
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We had a far more accurate representation in Hazak. Lately it has been "our guild has to leave, because that way we can recruit for the raid roster from both servers", then "our guild has to leave because we don't want to be stuck on a dead server" and now "our guild has to leave because there's nobody to compare our raiding to and without competition it's no fun".
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I wasn't going to comment, but this is getting increasingly ridiculous.
 
Just an FYI to anybody 'important' reading this: vast majority of folks discussing are coming from a mostly PVE bias mindset and don't represent Warhound, nor understand the desire to play on a PVP server. To put it in a simple way to understand, would you support a flagging system in DayZ? "Hey zombie/player, hold on! Let's fight! I'll flag myself one sec, just got done looting all my gear." We enjoy the danger. The risk/reward, being the bad guy or good guy, building a reputation. We don't enjoy being ganked, but that's part of the experience. It gets the heart racing, yes it's frustrating, but you come on top by pulling together allies to fight back. People argue that the day-to-day fighting is all at the daily zones, well that's where people are right now! So what? And I know for a fact that majority of folks would agree that watching people running around without being flagged would completely take them out of the experience of 'everyone is in danger, including me.' that comes from a PVP server. 
 
We have sizable pvp skirmishes on the daily, organize big world pvp events/raids, and yeah what you call 'real pvp' aka instanced stuff. The IRONY of this is Warhound still comprises majority of most instanced pvp, and have the most competitive players/guilds. We have to get premade teams cross-faction communicating to get queues to pop sometimes! You guys don't PVP as much, which is fine, but don't tell us what real pvp is. World PVP is just as much real pvp, the fact you dislike it doesn't matter. Your opinion isn't fact. Your preference is yours, not ours. 
 
extremely simple/reasonable request: Cross server auction house and moderate server transfers from folks coming over to exploit/poach and spam main city zone chat with toxicity. You want Wildstar to get bigger? Tell your friends. Get others in the game. Make fan content. Organize events. Make leveling circles and seek out new players to help. Merging PVE/PVP servers will not help Wildstar as whole. 
 
Warhound is not your solution. Instanced PVP zones suck, Ilum was one of the biggest mistakes SWTOR made. Wildstar would be wise to learn from that colossal mistake. The only way I could see it hosted on the same server, is if it's so heavily instanced that PVP/PVE players are completely segregated. 
 
Warhound is fine, drop 3 is coming, and we have tons of competitive PVP'ers waiting to jump back in. Once we start getting the PVP season going correctly it'll be huge for us. Recently we've had some guild mergers/restructuring and are getting some really strong raiding guilds on the PVE front full of awesome people, exile side included. Things are looking good. Events get bigger every week. I get messages of people saying they resubbed specifically to participate in our events. We are fine. What entity needs is community focus, and not seeking poaching band-aids that harms wildstar and doesn't last.
 
 
/rant-that-I-wish-I-didn't-have-to-do
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{Long rant}
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Hi Folks,
 
I know this is a heated discussion but I do have to request that you please refrain from personally insulting one another. Discussions are good, but when they turn to insults that's when we have to step in. 
 
Thank you.
- Team WildStar 	
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Pretty simple solution.Just move to entity, From what I've seen entity has more world pvp going on than warhound does anywaysand if it's really as bad as you seem to think on warhound, the more people that leave will cause more people to feel it's dead and leave and so on and so on.Like what happened in europe, big guilds left so more people left and then more people left because it felt empty and so on. 
If you don't like it on entity it's only a week before you can go back but it really has more of everything than the pvp server including pvp.I exclusively played on pvp servers my whole life until wildstar and outside of not having to deal with juvenile sadists camping the lowest level contested zone 24/7 it doesn't feel any different at all to me	
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{| class="blockquote"
Generally, when conditions change, pressures change and demands change. If the demands stay the same but the rationale changes, I'm not sure my first conclusion in your shoes would be that the change in conditions didn't work. I might wonder instead if the rationale driving the decision was being presented to me honestly.
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{| class="blockquote"
Pretty simple solution.
Just move to entity, From what I've seen entity has more world pvp going on than warhound does anyways
 
and if it's really as bad as you seem to think on warhound, the more people that leave will cause more people to feel it's dead and leave and so on and so on.
Like what happened in europe, big guilds left so more people left and then more people left because it felt empty and so on.
 
If you don't like it on entity it's only a week before you can go back but it really has more of everything than the pvp server including pvp.
I exclusively played on pvp servers my whole life until wildstar and outside of not having to deal with juvenile sadists camping the lowest level contested zone 24/7 it doesn't feel any different at all to me
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{| class="blockquote"
OK, I get that you want to merge Warhound and Entity, because you think it's a good idea, and it would suit you.
 
You can write long pointless posts until the cows come home, but take a look at this thread, no one agrees with you.
 
Also, you can CAPITALISE words as much as you like, and use EXAGGERATED adjectives to try and prove your point, but still NOBODY will agree with you. It's ARROGANT and SELFISH to insist that the world should bend to YOUR WILL just because you write LONGER posts than anyone else with MORE capital letters in them.
 
Merging two servers with completely different rulesets in the open world just before the largest content drop would be insane.
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I chose to play on this server because I was there before the transfer happened.
 
I was there when it was Hazak and did have world pvp spontaneously out of nowhere (much to your disbelief, a scrap leading into two groups of people battling against each other, even as a "zerg fest" is fun) and I am here because I want to be on this server. I don't want to uproot over 50+ active people to another server, because funnily enough they don't want to be there either. And like you said, most of this game is instanced it doesn't even matter what server we are on :)
I don't care if Jabbit is "the better server" (I don't know what constitutes as better, maybe more popular but certainly not better.. I'd rather keep away from some of the people on there tbh), I just choose not to play on a pve server because it puts me off playing the game. Simple as that.
 
I don't get why you find that so hard to understand.	
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			I wouldn't be able to play this game without the PvP ruleset. In that case I think I would leave to follow the development of the new Warhammer MMO. So, Eclips, you suggestion to force everyone into one sole PVE rule set would only drive players away.	
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{| class="blockquote"
words
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Your rant consisted of "You're wrong and I'm right." Without bringing anything new to the debate. Pretty much everything you just said I addressed, and was what prompted me to get into this toxic discussion.
 
Warhound merging into Entity would not be good for Wildstar, it would be a temporary move to a larger problem that wouldn't last. Carbine would be foolish to forcefully merge them and risk going from bleeding out to hemorrhaging more population. With the open server transfers anybody can move anywhere they want, it's not an issue. Nobody is locked in. Servers being separate is not the problem
 
While you think it's not true pvp, I disagree. I also addressed the fact that world pvp in the daily zones are obvious, because that's where the people are. If you don't participate, that's your problem. The only argument I've received being repeated is the lag, that was during the Farside event at the initial landing with 200+ people. The only event/time we had lag. When we moved to the ravine the lag was gone. See for yourself. Even warplots are lag free now. Your experience in beta (I assume) means nothing. 
 
Take a step back and realize people have different interests in games than you. While you call it a gankfest, welcome to world PVP my friend. If you can't take it the PVE servers are waiting. 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Don't try to hit me with a quip that I should transfer off if I can't handle the sorry excuse for the pvp.  I'm one of the highest rated arena / bg players in the game, one of the most active, and I have 4 different characters over 2200+ across the (now defunct) leaderboards.  I've been actively trying to make the game better, helping new pvpers, etc, in a very similar way that you've been helping people communicate and group up.
 
So don't tell me to leave if I can't take the world pvp, because I assure you that I'm a pvp tier in this game FAR above you and just about the majority of the playerbase.  That comes from time invested, experience, and a considerable interest in this hobby.  I'm way more qualified than you to talk about it because I have put in plenty of hours and time to discover what needs to be changed and where the problems lie.
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Just because you're a higher rated in arena player doesn't make your opinion any more valid than any elses. Showing off your e-peen is a lame attempt at backing up your rambling. 
 
It's like me saying "I lead the largest dominion pvp guild that is well known for being a pvp guild with a stupid name, I have weird coloured hair... oh and I have boobs YOU KNOW BOOBS ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS DONT HAVE YEAH IT MAKES ME MORE IMPORTANT PAY ATTENTION TO ME BLABLABLA" See? that stuff doesn't even stick, it's exactly the same. 
 
it doesn't matter what rating you are, what class, what age, what gender, what faction, everyone has a different way of looking at things. Just because you think the things we are trying to do as a community to bring people together are not in your little cookie cutter mantra of "perfect pvp" or "improving the community" (which, these events do btw, on all servers), doesn't mean we can't enjoy ourselves doing the things you don't enjoy. You should just go back to FF:ARR now until you've got all this bitterness out of your system dude, because as much as I respect you? You're coming off as a massive crybaby/special snowflake. Carbine aren't here to listen to YOUR opinions and act on them, they are here to listen to OUR opinions and listen to them.
 
Some of us love pvp servers, hence why we struggle on here. I DONT CARE if i can do all the same things on pve as pvp. I just don't want to be there. It's as simple as that.	
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			lmfao if you want legit gameplay video perspectives check elsewhere, you have no idea the work that goes into organizing an event if you honestly believe I was "running around / enjoying the fact people were actually playing" There's a reason why Warhound Events pulls stuff like this off, and events elsewhere crumble. It takes a lot of work. Look at my chat window and see the rapid fire messages I was sending off just to start. I was on steam crossfaction chatting. On multiple teamspeaks/skype/mumble. Wanna know why the warplots on Entity that was hugely advertised compared to Warhound resulted in a single guild v guild warplot? We did four. And did it as an afterthought from our WPVP event. With a PUG warparty crossfaction. If you have any idea how difficult that is with the queueing system bugs, you would understand how dedicated our community is to PVP. And why I get account friends on the daily from entity players/guilds wanting assistance with Warplots, as they've been unable to make it happen.I'll say it one final time: your opinion on world pvp not being real pvp is irrelevant. You're just sharing your preference, not some factual statement. PLAYER VS PLAYER. Simple as that.  	
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{| class="blockquote"
You ask me to look around and see if no one agrees with me, and I'll tell you that they do.
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