133617-more-pve-servers

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*gasp*  I said some of the most hated words in a MMO launch.  O no....
 
But see, here's the thing.  This is honestly the first time I've ever asked for more servers on a launch day and I've honestly been in a number of them.  Blah, blah -adds my MMO "credentials" that no one even cares about here-.  Anyways, my point really is that Carbine can't expect only one PvE server to work when there's a sudden influx of F2P people who are trying out the game.  They also can't afford to have all those F2P players being shown the door due to queues before they've even had the chance to try the game and spend any money.  At 4pm EST, which is about 2 to 3 hours before NA prime time, I had a queue of over 1000.  That's REALLY not good for a game trying to attract players to keep afloat.  It'll just mean people will uninstall before even playing since it won't be worth the effort to try and play a F2P game that has failed in the past.
 
So Carbine, just do it.  Just add one more PvE server per area.  If you have to merge later so be it.  But try to be optimistic about going F2P and allow a bigger population in your game.  If you keep it the way it is then there's no way around you losing something.  If you add a server there's a definite chance of "winning".  	
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			you do know these servers are multiple servers connected right?  they should scale with volume.  I don't think another server will fix this issue.	
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you do know these servers are multiple servers connected right?  they should scale with volume.  I don't think another server will fix this issue.
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			When the game first launched it had 8 regular PvE servers, the same problems existed for the first couple of weeks. Just be patient, it's day 1.	
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			I still think you fail to grasp what I tried to explain.  others have stated it better than i.	
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			just give them time to balance things out	
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Son- Dad, what is a Megaserver?
 
Dad-Oh son, I think that is where the company creates more servers based off of the whining from the F2P community.
 
Son-Oh sweet! Thanks Dad! Time to go post for more servers because of all the players trying to login at once!	
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			K 	
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*gasp*  I said some of the most hated words in a MMO launch.  O no....
 
But see, here's the thing.  This is honestly the first time I've ever asked for more servers on a launch day and I've honestly been in a number of them.  Blah, blah -adds my MMO "credentials" that no one even cares about here-.  Anyways, my point really is that Carbine can't expect only one PvE server to work when there's a sudden influx of F2P people who are trying out the game.  They also can't afford to have all those F2P players being shown the door due to queues before they've even had the chance to try the game and spend any money.  At 4pm EST, which is about 2 to 3 hours before NA prime time, I had a queue of over 1000.  That's REALLY not good for a game trying to attract players to keep afloat.  It'll just mean people will uninstall before even playing since it won't be worth the effort to try and play a F2P game that has failed in the past.
 
So Carbine, just do it.  Just add one more PvE server per area.  If you have to merge later so be it.  But try to be optimistic about going F2P and allow a bigger population in your game.  If you keep it the way it is then there's no way around you losing something.  If you add a server there's a definite chance of "winning".  
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When the game first launched it had 8 regular PvE servers, the same problems existed for the first couple of weeks. Just be patient, it's day 1.
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Actually, I do not know if the population status on the realm screen is correct, but the problem might be more complicated than that.
 
Even while the queues where at 3.5k - 4k people, server status seemed to be at Medium, which i believe it means the server was running below 75% capacity. With a 1.5k queue, the PVP server seemed to be "Open", which again i believe translates in roughly less than 50% percent capacity. So there's something (precautions to a huge influx?) blocking a mass login of players, and at the same time something less than optimal hardware-wise, resulting in terrible lag spikes even with a server below crucial capacity.
 
Just my two cents, correct me if I am wrong.	
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Actually, I do not know if the population status on the realm screen is correct, but the problem might be more complicated than that.
 
Even while the queues where at 3.5k - 4k people, server status seemed to be at Medium, which i believe it means the server was running below 75% capacity. With a 1.5k queue, the PVP server seemed to be "Open", which again i believe translates in roughly less than 50% percent capacity. So there's something (precautions to a huge influx?) blocking a mass login of players, and at the same time something less than optimal hardware-wise, resulting in terrible lag spikes even with a server below crucial capacity.
 
Just my two cents, correct me if I am wrong.
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The problem with the whole "OMG NEW SERVERS" approach is the following:
 
Launch day. There are many people. The servers are overwhelmed.
 
To combat that, new servers are added. Slowly everything goes down more smoothly.
 
A month later. About 50-60% of the people who flooded the servers in the initial few days stopped playing, for a multitude of different reasons. The servers are a barren wasteland.	
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I can be patient.  Others will not be.  My point is the queues will cause F2P players to leave before they spend any money.  That means that queues are literally causing Carbine money which is what they do not want right now and is probably something they cannot afford.  For the sake of the game and their company they need to lessen queues.
 
BTW, there is a huge difference between queues for a F2P game and queues for a P2P game.  For a P2P game people will stick around because they've already put money into the game.  For a F2P game it's more likely they'll just leave the game and never come back.  Which, again, is not something they can afford.
 
Another thing that is going to bleed F2P players is the horrible community you guys have going here.
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The problem with the whole "OMG NEW SERVERS" approach is the following:
 
Launch day. There are many people. The servers are overwhelmed.
 
To combat that, new servers are added. Slowly everything goes down more smoothly.
 
A month later. About 50-60% of the people who flooded the servers in the initial few days stopped playing, for a multitude of different reasons. The servers are a barren wasteland.
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Hello there!
First of all kudos to you for defending your opinion with fair points instead of raging all over the place.
 
The thing is that Carbine at this point has no reason to open more servers. The reasons behind this are that this have been the game's first day (long queues is expected) and that it will be a loss of money cause a large portion of the current playerbase will leave as soon as the hype train stops (opening a server will cost a lot and closing/merging it will cost even more). However they will increase/decrease the capacity of the megaservers in order to let more players join without making the game unplayable.If they have the resources to open another megaserver or improve this one (and therefore increase the capacity) then so be it. They are aware of the overpopulation of the servers but as I said earlier it's day one and they have to fix some serious issues (like the ones that have been fixed today) first. Give them time, they will figure something out as soon as possible. :)	
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That would be very interesting and may mean that the authentication server, called the "lobby" server in other games, may be the bottleneck.  That's what happened in FFXIV ARR as well.  The lobby server couldn't take all the pings and crashed repeatedly even though once you got into the game everything was great.  This could possibly be causing the Character Creation issues as well.  Hopefully that's all it is and they're fixing it.
 
 
The fact that they didn't think ahead to that and get more physical servers is a failing on Carbine's part in my mind.  
 
Also, not many F2P people are going to sit it out for a few days.  They're really not.  P2P players will wait through server issues.  F2P players will not because there's no investment and it's just not work it.  They'll move on.  These issues are directly causing Carbine revenue by bleeding F2P players who may pay eventually.
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The problem with the whole "OMG NEW SERVERS" approach is the following:
 
Launch day. There are many people. The servers are overwhelmed.
 
To combat that, new servers are added. Slowly everything goes down more smoothly.
 
A month later. About 50-60% of the people who flooded the servers in the initial few days stopped playing, for a multitude of different reasons. The servers are a barren wasteland.
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Which is why I usually don't ever ask for more servers when there are queues for a launch but those games are all P2P.  F2P is different.  A company for a F2P game cannot afford to put players off who may pay in the future.  Plus F2P games do not see the type of downturn that P2P games do with player log ins due to the fact that there is no barrier to join.  I would actually expect, as Carbine should, that MORE people will join as the time goes on.  But unfortunately they have already lost people with the queues.  If I didn't have friends who I'm going to play this game with I wouldn't be bothering.  I'd just be gone.  And to be completely honest I'm the kind of player Carbine wants.  I have a lot of extra cash I can throw at a game if I like it well enough.  They could have easily lost me today and they probably lost a lot of people like me unfortunately.  It just seems like they can't afford that.
 
 
 
Except that a hell of a lot more people who you would WANT in your game, those who are good players who spend money, aren't even going to bother to post here.  They'll just uninstall because there's no investment for us.  I have no investment in this game right now.  Why would I bother fussing with this F2P game with so many issues when I can just go to a different one that actually works?
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 But unfortunately they have already lost people with the queues.  If I didn't have friends who I'm going to play this game with I wouldn't be bothering.  I'd just be gone.  And to be completely honest I'm the kind of player Carbine wants.  I have a lot of extra cash I can throw at a game if I like it well enough.  They could have easily lost me today and they probably lost a lot of people like me unfortunately.  It just seems like they can't afford that.
 
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I played wildstar for six months (5 level 50s I think?), but couldn't jump to "sustainability."  Unlike WoW, where I can easily make enough gold to fund my PvP habit (yes, they are sadly related), I was confused on how to actually turn time into profits in this game.  And when I go to PvP, I can't stomach long queues either - I am here to play not sit and do nothing.
 
I will give it another look, with free to play...
 
Or maybe better said as I'm *thinking* of giving it a look, but am not willing to sit in queues longer than 2-3 minutes.  So the 1+ hour ones just make me go login to WoW and my 11 end game toons...  Just a fact, not a complaint.  I hope wildstar can become an option to play, it seems like it has enough to warrant the time spent... if you can get in.  (For WoW, I have 3 years worth of gametime funded by gold... so it is basically F2P too... with no login Qs and instant RBG queues too...)
 
EDIT: I rolled a new PvP toon, no queue... so at least I'm in and having fun.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by the real Fixi	
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I'm talking of server as in the colloquium MMO server.  Not physical server.  I know that all MMO "servers" are really sets of physical hardware servers.  I'm asking for a new PvE "Megaserver" per area.
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Hello there!
First of all kudos to you for defending your opinion with fair points instead of raging all over the place.
 
The thing is that Carbine at this point has no reason to open more servers. The reasons behind this are that this have been the game's first day (long queues is expected) and that it will be a loss of money cause a large portion of the current playerbase will leave as soon as the hype train stops (opening a server will cost a lot and closing/merging it will cost even more). However they will increase/decrease the capacity of the megaservers in order to let more players join without making the game unplayable.If they have the resources to open another megaserver or improve this one (and therefore increase the capacity) then so be it. They are aware of the overpopulation of the servers but as I said earlier it's day one and they have to fix some serious issues (like the ones that have been fixed today) first. Give them time, they will figure something out as soon as possible. :)
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If you wouldn't bother, you wouldn't be here on the forums writing about it. And indeed, why are you still here fussing with this f2p game that doesn't work while you could go to a different one? I doubt that many of the people who are now whining are going to spend much money on the game. If they didn't care to buy a subscription, why would they care to pay money for extra character slots or extra bag slots from the store? You can just play for free a bit longer and buy them with in-game currency anyway. The people who don't care to post on the forums and complain are most likely people who have proper experience with mmo launches and just wait for it to stabilize. Or within a few weeks they hear from their friends that W* is incredibly stable and fun so they'll come take a peek either way.
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But why would you leave? You seem to me a very reasonable sort, you said in your OP that you've been through disastrous launches before and know that this is just a temporary problem. You seem able to understand that the situation will not stay as it is. The thing is that the servers aren't at their capacity, the reason things always bork during launch days are because everyone are trying to log on at the same time, its effect isn't unlike a DDOS attack. On a normal day the trickle of players will be much more evened out, except perhaps during peak hours when you can expect a bit of a queue. 
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			No more launch day servers... things will even out in a week, give or take and it will be fine.	
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Thanks.  I've been in so many launches I do expect this stuff so I don't ever rage.  The only difference here is that this is a F2P launch rather than a P2P launch which changes quite a few things.  The lack of investment for F2P players means that a lot of them will leave if they see issues and especially if they see long queues.  With P2P games the investment is already there so players wait it out.  That's how it's so different.
 
I really do hope they figure it out but it just seems to me that they didn't think ahead much.  They also didn't "dream" at all.  They seem to have almost expected the same amount of people who were playing before which I see as folly.  Investing in one more Mega server per area would show that they actually have hope that what they did matters and that the population will grow.  Keeping it the same just makes it seem like they don't expect the game to do well at all.
 
 
 
I'm going to be honest and say that they've probably lost out on at least as much money as they would have put in for a new Megaserver per area due to people who would be willing to spend money who have already left.  
 
WoW and FFXIV are P2P.  Once people buy it they are already invested in it and are willing to stick around through issues.  Well, some issues.  WoW is have a lot of them right now and is bleeding subs.  Investment in the game is key right now.  Wildstar, while fun, is still not too unique.  People will just move on and no, they're not going to stick around.  And them not sticking around has nothing to do with intelligence or lack there of.  It has to, again, do with investment in the game and also with the whole realm of competition that people could play instead.
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			They probably just need to create more instances as people log in over the first few days or weeks, granted I tried to do the first expedition today and the lag was so bad I had to quit. They should be able to have separate instances up though each with their own lag, that doesn't seem to be working right now maybe the overall load is just to great. I'm ok with it now because hey more players means, well it means more players.	
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If that were so then why are there 4k queues and why did the game start with more Megaservers then it has now?
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			i believe having another server would help out, better than waiting for people to leave the game, it would be a healthier option to either expand the amount of people that can play, or make another server or a couple, if the server becomes low then couldn't servers be combined? correct me if i'm wrong but i believe servers are able to be combined, think it was World of warcraft that does that, not quite sure.	
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			They use megaservers, that mean one giant server. So they don't need to open new servers at all. A lot of MMORPGs are doing this, The Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, etc	
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I seriously don't get why you keep pulling the "people who want to invest" card. If people really wanted to invest, they'd have bought a subscription before f2p or they'd have just bought a box copy (they were for sale for only 12 euros at one point) to try it out. I don't know where you got your economics degree, but like Boxilot said you seem like a reasonable person and you seem to understand that this is only a temporary issue, so why even bother attempting to give Carbine or whoever you're reaching out to advice on how to perform a launch day?
 
I just think that Carbine didn't expect this much people to suddenly sign up and want to play the game, or they simply do not have the funds to purchase another server to provide another megaserver. They started out with more due to the amount of people interested in beta most probably and had to "dispose" of servers as the year went on as it was too expensive and they weren't being used anyway.
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The problem with the whole "OMG NEW SERVERS" approach is the following:
 
Launch day. There are many people. The servers are overwhelmed.
 
To combat that, new servers are added. Slowly everything goes down more smoothly.
 
A month later. About 50-60% of the people who flooded the servers in the initial few days stopped playing, for a multitude of different reasons. The servers are a barren wasteland.
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actually since theirs only 1 mega server extra hardware would just allow extra load theirs still only going to be 1 server showing up.
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Yes, but OP doesn't want additional capacity for the megaserver, he wants a second megaservers. There's four, by the way. Megaservers, that is. Two for each region, one PvE, one PvP. He wants to add two additional PvE servers.
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Yes, but OP doesn't want additional capacity for the megaserver, he wants a second megaserver. There's four, by the way. Megaservers, that is. Two for each region, one PvE, one PvP. He wants to add two additional PvE servers.
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you do know these servers are multiple servers connected right?  they should scale with volume.  I don't think another server will fix this issue.
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BTW, there is a huge difference between queues for a F2P game and queues for a P2P game.  For a P2P game people will stick around because they've already put money into the game.  For a F2P game it's more likely they'll just leave the game and never come back.  Which, again, is not something they can afford.
 
 
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OP did not actually understand what they meant by Megaserver since the other Megaservers they have played (GW2 and TSW) are very different in the fact that they have multiple lobby/authentication servers and create different instances when one is overloaded.  Basically, it's seeming like this is just a poorly constructed Megaserver unfortunately.  So actually what I'm really asking for based on this new knowledge is a second authentication server for each Megaserver like the other games have.  This is why you have different "worlds" still in those games even though everyone is on the same megaserver.
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			Yeah a three hour wait to even get into the server isn't much incentive to try the game out, especially when there are so many other options available where you can get right in and play.
			
				
	Edited September 29, 2015 by enderbeanUT	
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			they used to have lots of servers then they connected them all into 2 big ones.	
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Gee, if only hardware and bandwidth could be leased to handle launch overload.
 
Oh, wait, it can.
 
This is a problem that was easily forseen (did anyone *not* predict this?) and could have been addressed in a cost-effective manner.
 
I see no need to make excuses for Carbine. "All other games do it" is just another excuse.	
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I don't think most of the subscribers roaming the forum right now care that our newfound collection of "freeloader flamers/haters" are never coming back again. If the f2p players who just joined have half a brain cell they'll just try again tomorrow or in a few days. That's the kind of people we want to join us. Not the whiners and crybabies "uninstalling" their game because they couldn't get in today.
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I have friends who play the game.  That's my investment in it.  Which is my point.  Those who have some sort of investment will wait until stuff calms down.  Those who do not will just leave.
 
 
If that were so then why are there 4k queues and why did the game start with more Megaservers then it has now?
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I think we're all assuming that we know what the underlying causes of the lag and/or queues are, and we don't.
This could be a hardware limitation, it could be bugs in instance spawning, it could be overthrottling, it could be external efforts to flood the servers by hackers. We simply don't know.
 
While I wouldn't mind at all if Carbine was more forthcoming about what's going on, I also have every confidence that Carbine is working on whatever the problem is and that things will be running much more smoothly in a matter of hours or days. The new drop is literally less than 24 hours old, this is a patch day. And no, this isn't a smooth patch--but then again there's also been a huge number of changes to the game's systems on top of the business model change.
 
I would ask new players to please be patient for a day or so. They will sort it out and in a few days at most, I expect this will be a non-issue. If you're really finding this too upsetting to tolerate, I'd suggest just holding off on trying to get in for a few days. The game's not going anywhere, it'll still be here and a much smoother experience.
 
I would also ask veteran players to refrain from overly defensive responses. New players are not being unreasonable when they find the queues and restarts annoying--they want to check out the game and instead they're sitting at a login screen. Keep in mind that these are the people who were excited enough about the F2P relaunch to show up early on the first day that it's open and be disappointed that they're finding it onerous. That's a good thing, not a reason for ridicule.	
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			It's day one.  You people need to calm down.  If this mmo was having these problems a week from now.  You might have a point.  Majority of F2P who don't have an "investment" in the game will just turn on another game or watch tv till the servers are up and running.  You seem to think you speak for all F2P.  The only people who after an hour of installing and a queue quit and uninstall.  Well, the community and developers will be better off without these cancers.  	
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			Hello Cupcake...They are doing the best they can and fixing major issues with the game...Once things get fix you shouldn't have an issue with it anymore	
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I think we're all assuming that we know what the underlying causes of the lag and/or queues are, and we don't.
This could be a hardware limitation, it could be bugs in instance spawning, it could be overthrottling, it could be external efforts to flood the servers by hackers. We simply don't know.
 
While I wouldn't mind at all if Carbine was more forthcoming about what's going on, I also have every confidence that Carbine is working on whatever the problem is and that things will be running much more smoothly in a matter of hours or days. The new drop is literally less than 24 hours old, this is a patch day. And no, this isn't a smooth patch--but then again there's also been a huge number of changes to the game's systems on top of the business model change.
 
I would ask new players to please be patient for a day or so. They will sort it out and in a few days at most, I expect this will be a non-issue. If you're really finding this too upsetting to tolerate, I'd suggest just holding off on trying to get in for a few days. The game's not going anywhere, it'll still be here and a much smoother experience.
 
I would also ask veteran players to refrain from overly defensive responses. New players are not being unreasonable when they find the queues and restarts annoying--they want to check out the game and instead they're sitting at a login screen. Keep in mind that these are the people who were excited enough about the F2P relaunch to show up early on the first day that it's open and be disappointed that they're finding it onerous. That's a good thing, not a reason for ridicule.
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			Reflexive fanboi defensiveness is the reason games like Pathfinder Online wither and die.  A little venting is healthy.  It shows the player community still cares.  Shush the critics and drive them away and pretty soon you find the servers shuttered for good because nobody but the vocal partisans are interested in the game any more.	
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Reflexive fanboi defensiveness is the reason games like Pathfinder Online wither and die.  A little venting is healthy.  It shows the player community still cares.  Shush the critics and drive them away and pretty soon you find the servers shuttered for good because nobody but the vocal partisans are interested in the game any more.
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That would be very interesting and may mean that the authentication server, called the "lobby" server in other games, may be the bottleneck.  That's what happened in FFXIV ARR as well.  The lobby server couldn't take all the pings and crashed repeatedly even though once you got into the game everything was great.  This could possibly be causing the Character Creation issues as well.  Hopefully that's all it is and they're fixing it.
 
 
The fact that they didn't think ahead to that and get more physical servers is a failing on Carbine's part in my mind.  
 
Also, not many F2P people are going to sit it out for a few days.  They're really not.  P2P players will wait through server issues.  F2P players will not because there's no investment and it's just not work it.  They'll move on.  These issues are directly causing Carbine revenue by bleeding F2P players who may pay eventually.
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