Vogue China/Interview

Interview
Photoshoot
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Before being associated as Elon Musk's ex-girlfriend, Grimes was first a human named Claire. She is a talented musician, an artist with boundless creativity in visual arts, and forever cherished as the "fairy" in the hearts of her fans. Welcome to Grimes' creative world.
GRIMES TO GO WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE
GRIMES: Embark on a journey to uncharted territory where no one has been before.
It has been two years since Canadian musician Grimes released her last album, "Miss Anthropocene." During these two years, she has signed with a new record label, collaborated with musicians from diverse backgrounds, released singles, started a podcast, formed a virtual girl group, released digital artworks, held exhibitions, and embraced motherhood.
In May of this year, Grimes performed the debut of her single "Welcome to the Opera" with musician Anyma. This song will be included in her upcoming album "Book 1," as well as the independently released album "Book 2," which is currently being prepared.
Given Grimes' connection to physical activities like dancing, this album is expected to have many dance elements. Get ready to immerse yourself in the vibrant revival of dance music that is happening right now!
I: Iris Longstocking
G: Grimes
I: The upcoming EP "Fairies Cum First," album "Book 1," album "Book 2," and your virtual girl group NPC... they are all happening around the same time. What are the differences in their goals, concepts, and intentions? Do they have any cognitive connections?
G: I live in the universe of "Book 1." It draws inspiration from works like the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, Icelandic sagas, Beowulf, The Iliad, The Odyssey, and Herodotus' Histories, among others. These works depict historical events, some partially true and others entirely fictional, resembling science fiction or fantasy literature. Regardless of their accuracy, I have embarked on a creative journey that involves landing on Mars or venturing into artificial intelligence adventures. In my vision, these explorations of virtual futures and the ancient events described in the texts are equally important, as they are both records in the river of human history. Therefore, I want to document this journey with an extremely inaccurate and excessively fantastical aesthetic, much like what previous generations did in ancient times. At the same time, I will also predict some yet-to-happen science fiction ideas. I have set this album in a future approximately ten thousand years from now. I only need to extract colors from my real life - the present reality is wild enough that you can't even imagine it - and I find great inspiration in a reality that is more strange and surreal than fictional novels. I believe many science fiction works follow this line of thinking. However, the exploration of dystopian themes is growing stronger in the present. Therefore, I want to present a future that is vibrant and beautiful, even in the face of numerous challenges. Perhaps this way, we can begin to aim for a more achievable social model as our goal. This is also why I am a big fan of Scottish science fiction writer Iain M. Banks' "Culture" series. Many of his descriptions have become reality, and they are authentic, not sugar-coated. These works are filled with conflicts but still provide a long-term vision of the future, a world in which we would like to live. They also depict superintelligence in a remarkable way, showing a positive and non-alarming human-machine interaction.
In summary, if we were to live in the legends of the south in "Book 1," NPCs would be a dominant pop girl group shaping the culture. Their EP would be called "Fairies Cum First." Therefore, all these projects will eventually converge and merge into one, haha.
I: In your new album "Book 1," what can we expect in terms of the fusion and presentation of cultural, musical, technological, and other elements that you have long been interested in?
G: I believe that humans should pay more attention to their bodies at present. We need better digital hygiene. When you spend too much time surfing the internet, you're actually depleting yourself. You think you're embracing society, but you're not receiving the positive brain chemical boost that you would typically get from interacting with other humans, such as oxytocin. We need to contend for control over our increasingly digital lives, where the emphasis is growing.
I: So, which "lucky one" will be the most active volcano this summer?
G: From what it looks like, the biggest cultural volcano eruption of this summer will be the new song and music video collaboration with The Weeknd! It's going to be a journey, definitely worth watching till the end, to listen to the monologue and then enter a more dramatic second half, where I share my whimsical thoughts on the friendship between humans and artificial intelligence. I directed and edited the music video myself, and I did all the CG post-production effects. I'm really curious about people's reactions after watching it—haha, who knows, it might be a disaster, but at least it won't be boring.
I: In this generation, Web 3.0 is emerging, and incredible things like clinical trials through brain-computer interfaces are happening in reality. Going back to Grimes, are there any recent technological terms/ideas/inventions that have greatly impacted you and made you want to delve deeper to gain more creative fuel?
G: I have always had a passion for exploring creativity in all things. As mentioned earlier, I am currently fascinated by artificial intelligence programs like DALL-E and Midjourney. We are on the brink of a beautiful explosion in the collaboration between humans and machines. Overall, I believe we are in the midst of a creative "renaissance." Now, I am even more deeply moved by the works of my peers than before the pandemic. Perhaps the contemporary pain and struggles are being transformed into a new type of artistic renaissance. Amid political and mental health crises, they are incarnations of beautiful solace.
I: In your creative work, how do you gradually build and complete your world? Is the process like assembling a puzzle or constructing a maze where the exit is not determined until the very end?
G: Yes, until the end, all creations seem like a tangled mess. I feel that most creators get caught in this pattern, although I now have more purpose and direction. When working, I don't blindly chase feelings or anxiously focus on technical processes; I simply search for my own foundation as a philosopher and artist. Becoming a mother has also changed my brain, and my creative senses have been iterated with a fresh new identity. Where will this new identity guide me? I'm excited to find out.
I: Privately, what can bring you back from the fictional world to the earthly realm? Or what can inspire you to create more sensory awareness about the virtual "protopia" (the opposite of dystopia, a constantly changing and adjusting progress with small improvements)? As a mother (Grimes affectionately nicknames her children X and Y), what role will your children play in your creations?
G: I care deeply about Earth's life. I may never know what it's like to exist in another form of life. If it's life on Mars, it might be cold and fleeting. I love that you mentioned "protopia," and I think it's an amazing concept. I believe the most important thing for artists today is to build the world we want to live in. If all science fiction revolves around dystopia, then we're writing ourselves into a dystopia. I believe it is a moral imperative to envision a future with positive beauty. Life will also emerge from art. I want to dedicate my future to this practice. I hope X and Puck—my daughter is now called Puck, named after the best character from Shakespeare's greatest work, "A Midsummer Night's Dream"—can join me on this journey of expanding consciousness. Of course, I will support whatever they want to do—even if they want to design video games, haha. But I do hope they can use their minds to build a better future for Earth, one that amazes everyone (even though it's quite troublesome right now), where "space monkeys" can stand tall.
I: From what I understand, you often challenge people's judgments of the "manic pixie dream girl" through your strongly self-driven expressions. Now, imagine other storytellers creating an embodiment based on you. What would you expect from that? What kind of expression would you absolutely not welcome?
G: Haha, I actually like being called a "manic pixie dream girl." I resonate with all the narratives that this image carries. People will always judge me, and I can anticipate why they would judge me, but I choose not to focus on the negativity. I enjoy learning through debate and reshaping myself. I never mock or seek to please the masses. I'm open to being proven wrong and changing my perspective, but some see this as hypocrisy.
Interestingly, some people think I'm marketing myself through mysterious means; whenever I undergo a transformation, they think, "Ah, you were faking it all along." I am well aware that when I express challenging viewpoints that contradict the traits that made them love me, there will be opposing voices—I'm not afraid of opposition. I believe art should stir up waves.
I want people to think: Why shouldn't a certain idea be good? If we don't imagine a better world, we'll never achieve one. I don't think the impulse to contemplate something impossible or wrong is disconnected from the real world, nor does it hinder our ability to address the issues we face today. Of course, I may have been wrong all along, but if thought experiments and curiosity are moral failings, then consider me morally flawed. I think I'll forever be seen as a pseudo-intellectual who trivializes competitive viewpoints.
But I believe that part of the problem in the world today is the absence of objective truths. We can see the influence of patriarchy on the current rigid mechanisms and the psychological damage it causes to individuals. We can also recognize that men need more nurturing, love, and education to counteract the natural aggression brought about by testosterone. We can celebrate the achievements of patriarchy as in ancient Rome, but we can also criticize many of their practices. We should avoid the death of nuanced emotions and not close our hearts to the possibility that absolute truth exists.
I refuse to engage in superficial expressions or false pretenses, even if doing so could alleviate controversies surrounding my public image. I may find myself in trouble frequently because of it. But I am not a pop star; I am an artist.
I: In the popular series "Stranger Things," there is a memorable scene in the fourth season where a character breaks free from the antagonist and runs towards life and love. The scene is accompanied by Kate Bush's song "Running Up That Hill." If it were me, my awakening song would be Grimes' "REALiTi." As Grimes herself, which artist's work could have the same magical effect?
G: Wow, first of all, that's the best compliment ever! Did you know that Faye Wong covered The Cranberries' "Dreams" with a Chinese title "梦中人" (Mèng zhōng rén)? If I wanted to break the loop of Stranger Things, that might be one of my options, haha.
I: "REALiTi" is also a favorite among many Chinese fans. Looking back on that period, is there any special background story you can share with us?
G: The making of the "REALiTi" music video is still one of the best experiences of my life. I have to say that my Asian tour in 2013, which I independently planned, truly changed my life. Before that, I had never traveled so far and so extensively. The only thing more exciting than "seeing the world in ways you never thought you could see it" is creating art within the embrace of that world. We had this crazy idea to make the most of the Asian tour and shoot videos in every destination. In the end, we witnessed more beautiful things, met more people, and gained experiences that we couldn't have had as mere tourists. There were also some bizarre moments, like performing in front of complete strangers and being chased out of venues. I still remember the Beijing show; the audience was the coolest, and I still don't think I've had a cooler audience than the one in Beijing. If any of the audience from that day happens to be reading this, I think you're really cool. It was a cold day, and everyone was exhaling misty breaths. Some had mohawk hairstyles, some had hedgehog hairstyles, and one person even attempted to attack me with makeup, but my tour manager had to escort him out. However, he left me with a crazy artwork of the Beijing cityscape, which I still have. It was quite a wild time.
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===Interviewhttps://www.reddit.com/r/Grimes/comments/wp3gbl/vogue_china_plus_scans/===
在被马斯克前女友这个头街黏上之前，Grimes首先是人类Claire,然后是才华横溢的
鬼才音乐人、创意无限的视觉艺术家、粉丝心中永远的“小仙女”。欢迎来到Grimes的创作世界。
GRIMES TO GO WHERE NO ONE HAS GONE BEFORE
GRIMES: 去往前人未至之境
距离加拿大音乐人Grimes上一张专辑 Miss Anthropocene 的发行己有两年。两年间，她签约了新的唱片公司，
与不同背景的音乐人合作，发单曲、开播客、做虚拟女团、发行数字艺术品、办展览、解锁了母亲身份⋯• 
今年五月，Grimes和音乐人Anyma进行了单曲 Welcome to the Opera 的首次公演，这首歌将被收录进她的
新专辑 Book 1, EP Fairies Cum First 以及独立发行的新专辑 Book 2 也在确认筹备中。
一些和身体链接的活动，比如跳舞。因此,这张专辑会有许多
舞蹈元素——为正在发生的舞曲音乐复兴躁动起来吧！
I: Iris Longstocking
G: Grimes
I：即将发行的 EP Fairies Cum First、专辑Book 1和 Book 2、你的虚拟女团NPC……•它们几乎都在同一时间发 生了。这些企划的目标/概,念/意图有什么不同呢？它们会有着某种认知上的关联性吗？
G:生活在Book1的宇宙。 撒克逊编年史、冰岛萨迎文学、贝奥武夫、伊利亚特、奥德赛 史诗、希罗多德历史等等。这些作品对历史的描写，部分为
真,部分又是全然虚构，近似科幻或奇幻文学。 无论好坏，我已经在登陆火星或是人工智能大冒险的创作奇
航里坐稳了我的驾驶．••在我的理念里，这些关于虛拟未来 探索的创作和前面提到的文本中描绘的古代事件同等重要， 它们都是人类历史长河中的一种记录。因此，我也想以一种 极度不准确，并且过分魔幻的美学表达来记录这段旅程，,哈 哈,正如前人在古代所做的。同时，我也会预测一些尚未发生
的科幻创意。我把这张专辑设定在大概一万年之后的未来。 我只需要在我的真实生活中提取色彩—现世狂野爆了，你 可能编都编不出这种现实-—我在比虛构小说还怪异诡谲
的现实里大获启发。 我想很多科幻创作也是这种思路。不过,当下对于反乌托邦 议题的探讨愈演愈烈。因此，我想在作品里呈现一个即便问 题重重仍然缤纷美丽的未来。或许这样，我们能开始以一个
更可实现的社会模型作为目标。 也因为此，我很喜欢苏格兰科幻作家伊恩•班克斯的“文明” 系列作品。它们中的许多描述成为了现实，而且真实、不披糖 衣。这些作品里充斥着冲突，但仍提供了一种长期主义的未 来蓝图，一个我们愿意生活在其中的世界。它们对超级智能
也做了极佳的描绘，人机交互可以很好，不骇人听闻。 总而言之，如果我们生活在Book1的宇南传说里，NPC会是 主宰文化的流行女团，她们的EP叫做FairiesCumFirst,所
以这些企划最后都会万法归宗，合并成一个项目，哈哈。
I：在你的新专辑Book 1里，我们可以期待怎样的文化、音乐、科技等等你长期关注的元素的糅合呈现？
G：我认为人类当下应该更关注他们的身体，我们需要更好的
数宇清洁：当你花了太多时间上网冲浪，你其实是在冲击失
望—你以为你在拥抱这个社会，但你并没有得到通常你和其他人类交往时所能得到的好的大脑化学物质补给，比如催产素。我们需要和比重与日俱增的数字人生争夺主控权，做
I：那么哪一位“幸运儿”将会是这个夏天最活跃的火山呢？
G:目前看来，这个夏天Grimes最大的文化火山喷发•…•将
会是和The Weeknd合作的新歌和录影带!它会是一场旅行,绝对值得你看到最后，去聆听独白，然后进入更加戏剧化的后半段，讲述我对人类和人工智能的友邦的奇思妙想。我
执导、剪辑了这支录影带，并且做了所有CG后期特效-我真的很好奇人们的观后感——哈哈，没准它是一场灾难
呢，不过至少它一点都不无聊。
I：这个世代，Web了.0席卷而来,通过脑机接口开展人体
临床试验,所有不可思议的事情正在现实中发生⋯⋯回到
Grimes,有没有什么最近的科技名词/想法/发明令你倍感
冲击,进而想要深入挖掘来获取更多创作燃料补给？ '''
G：我一直对所有事物葆有开采创意的热情。如前面所说，我 现在超爱DALL-E和Midjourney这些人工智能程序。我们己 经在人机协作这桩美丽发明的大爆发边缘了。整体而言，我 认为我们已身处创意的“文艺复兴”之中。现在，我比疫情之 前更深受同伴们的作品的触动。或许当代的痛苦和挣扎正在 被转化成一种艺术的新型文艺复兴，在政治与心理健康的危
机之中，它们化身成了一种美丽的慰藉。
I: 在创意工作中，你是怎样逐步构建、完成你的世界的？这个 过程是像拼组拼图，还是像建造一个不到最后一刻就不能确
定出口的迷宫？ '''
G：是的，不到最后，所有创作看起来都像一团乱麻。我感觉 多数创作者都会陷进这个模式里，虽然现在的我会更有目的 性和指向性。工作时，我不会一味地追逐感觉，或者焦虑技术 进程;我只是在找寻自己作为哲学家和艺术家的立足点。成 为一名母亲也改变了我的大脑，我的创造性感官被更新迭代
了一新的身份会指引l我走向哪里？我对此也感到兴奋期待。
I: 私下里，什么能够将你从虛构的世界拉回地球上的尘器？ 或者能够激发你创作更多关于虛拟“进托邦”(Protopia, “反乌托邦”的反面，一种不断变化调节的、有着微小的进步 的进程。)的感官觉知？作为一名母亲(Grimes分别昵称她 的儿女为X和Y），你的孩子们会在你的创作中扮演怎样的角
色呢？ '''
G：我最为在乎的就是地球生命了。我可能永远不会知道以 另一种形式的生命生存是怎样的。如果是火星生活，可能会 寒冷又短暂。我很喜欢你提到了“进托邦”，我认为这是一个
惊人的概念。 我相信，当下对于艺术家最重要的事，是去建造一个我们想 去生活的世界。如果所有科幻都围绕反乌托邦展开，那我们 就是在把自己写入一个反乌托邦。我相信去构画一个有着积 极美丽的愿景的未来是一种道义。生活也会从艺术中脱胎而
出。我想将今后的人生献给这样的践行。 我希望X和Puck-一我的女儿现在叫Puck了，来自莎士 比亚最棒的作品里最棒的角色（《仲夏夜之梦》中的精灵帕 克克）一—能加入我拓展意识的疆域的征程。当然,不论他们想 做什么我都会支持一一他们想设计电子游戏也行，哈哈。但 我确实希望他们可以动用他们的头脑去建设一个更好的、一
个给所有令人惊吸(虽然现在也麻烦多多）的“太空猴子”们
屹立于其上的地球的未来。
I:从我认知到的一些讯息去解读的话，你常以自我核心驱动的强烈表达，去挑战人们对于“躁狂精灵梦幻女孩”的评判。
现在，想象其他叙事者打造一个以你为原型的化身，你会期望什么？你绝对不欢迎怎样的表达？'''
G：哈哈，我其实喜欢被称做“躁狂精灵梦幻女孩”。我认同这一形象包含的所有叙事。人们总归会评判我，我也能预测到他们会因为什么而评判我，但我不想关注消极面。我喜欢学习辩论、重塑自我。我从不去讥讽，也从不曾取悦大众。我愿意被证明我是错的并随之转变思路，有人却将这种行为视为
虛伪。
有趣的是，一些人认为我在以故弄玄虛的手段营销自己;每当我有所转变，他们会觉得“果然你是装出来的”。我很清楚，当我表达具有挑战性的、不受欢迎的和令他们爱上我的特质相悖的观点时，就会有反对的声音出现——我不怕反对的声音。我认为艺术就该激起声浪。
我想要人们去思考：为何某种构想不好呢？如果我们不去想
象一个更好的世界，我们就永远不会得到一个更好的世界。
我不认为去设想一个不可能抑或错误的想法的冲动就是与现实世界脱节的，或者这种冲动不能启发我们思考当下面对的议题——当然，我可能一直都想错了，但如果思维试验和好奇心是道德缺陷，那就把我视作道德失败吧。我想,我将永远被看作是一个将竞争性观点娱乐化的伪君子。
但我认为这个世界现下的部分问题在于没有客观真相。我们可以看到父权制对现行的僵化机制的影响，对每个人的心理造成的损害。我们还可以看到，男性需要更多的滋养、爱和教育来对抗睾丸激素带来的天然好战倾向。我们可以像古罗马
时期一样赞颂父权制的成就，我们也可以道责古罗马人的许多做法。我们要避免那些纤微流动的情愫的死亡，不要因为希冀绝对真理的存在而关闭我们的心房。
我拒绝敷衍表达或者假意虛伪，即使这样做能够减轻我的公众形象争议。我可能会因此时常深陷麻烦。但我不是流行歌星,我是名艺术家。
I:在大热剧集《怪奇物语》的第四季里，有一场角色挣脱反派跑向生命和爱的名场面，召唤她的是KateBush的曲目RunningUpThatHill。如果是我的话，我的唤醒曲会是 Grimes的REALiTi——那么作为Grimes本人，哪一位艺术家的作品也能发挥同样的魔力？
G：哇，首先,这简直是史上最好的称赞了！你知道王菲翻唱
过小红莓乐队的Dreams,中文曲名《梦中人»吗？想要关掉
循环怪图,那可能会是我的选项之一，哈哈。
I：REALiTi也是许多中国粉丝的至爱。现在回看那段时期，有没有什么特别的背景故事可以和我们分享?
G：制作REALT的录影带仍是我一生中最棒的经历之一。我
得说，2013年我自主策划的亚洲巡演真的改变了我的人生。
在那之前，我从没有过那么多那么远的旅行。而唯一一件比 “去看看那些你从未想过你能看到的世界，更有趣的事，就是
在那个世界的怀抱中创作艺术。 我们之前就有了这个疯狂的想法：要把这场亚洲巡演充分利 用起来,把每一处目的地都拍成视频。最终，我们见识到了更 多美丽的事物，邂逅了更多人，收获了以游客身份无法得到 的体验——还有些离奇的经历：在完全的陌生人面前全程表
演,被人追逐驱赶出一些场地等等。 我还记得在北京的演出，那场的观众是最酷的，我仍然不觉 得我有哪场演出的观众比北京那次还酷。如果有那天的观众
恰好读到这里的话，我觉得你非常酷。那天很冷，所有人都在
吞云吐雾，有人梳着莫西干头，有人梳着刺猬头，还有一个人 试图在化妆问攻击我—一我的巡演经纪人只好把他扭送出 去—一但他给我留下了一幅疯狂的北京城市画作，我还保存
着。好一段狂野时光。</tabber>Category:InterviewCategory:2022