114625-state-of-the-game-real-talk~

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First off, let me get out of the way that people are obviously upset with an early Nov 3rd drop.  Yes, the people who understand why Carbine is doing what they are doing, also understand the reason others are mad.
 
However, why does the vocal bunch of the forums have to act like jerks, and overall just children over it.  Before you get all offensive because I just called you a child, hear me out.  People want CRB to be transparent as much as possible, so they try, and people still *cupcake* about the results.  Can we not be happy that we actually have a set in stone timeline now?  Can we all just take a step back and realize that they are actually trying to the best of their ability?  They release it with bugs and lose a bunch of people to a buggy game, or they don't release it in an unrealistic amount of time and people go ape shit.  They have patch notes so that you can see that GIANT list of shit they are going to implement, so you can surely understand why it is taking so long if they want to release it as bug free as possible.  CRB is damned if they do and damned if they don't.  The forums seriously need to stop being such a cesspool of over emotional people who claim they can't wait for less than 1.5 more months for major changes, when LITERALLY NOONE has done everything that they can do in this game.  MOST people aren't maxed out on Ability/AMP points.  No one has cleared DS.  Most haven't even cleared GA.
 
There is not a single bug live in this game that GAME BREAKING.  Not a single bug that has ever broken the game so bad that we weren't able to play.  Don't get me wrong, the lack of speed on some fixes can get somewhat disheartening (speaking as someone who has been here since mid beta), BUT there is obviously a reason for it.  They are not intentionally holding content back just to *cupcake* people off, I promise you.  They are not some giant studio like WoW, and they likely never will be.  But let's face it.  They have a great game, that they are polishing up more and more every day.  If their judgement says that release needs to wait, then it needs to wait, you you guys need to endure some small (yes, non gamebreaking issues = small) issues until CRB thinks they are ready to go out.
 
So what do people suggest when they actually step back and take a look at it from both points of view.  Aren't you happy that they are still releasing large content drops faster than any other MMop out there, as a new MMO, with a small studio? And trying to do it as bug free as possible?
 
At the end of the day, if you enjoy this game, you will have 0 issue waiting a short time for content drop (short compared to any major MMO).  If you don't care for how CRB is handling this situation, at very least chill out with the childish whining and empty threats when conveying your concerns.  Please.
 
inb4 #quitbeingafanboi etc etc....	
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I agree with the words you say, but it's an age-old tradition that a forum suffer such negativity. I don't like it either, but I personally pay it little mind because I'm one of those that's fond enough of the game to be content waiting if I have to.
 
Besides, I've hardly played since my guild took a hopefully-temporary nap. Hopefully will find some shenanigans to get into once I cap my spellslinger tomorrow.	
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Honestly? You're burying your head in the sand. Carbine shot themselves in the foot. It is readily apparent that changes in the management at CRB has changed their style and frequency of communication. Drop 3 hail mary gonna come way too late to be of any use.
 
But you're right, we should all be positive. Carbine knows best. It's all the player's fault. Not the literal hundreds of thousands of people that have played this game, sensed its potential, but were turned off for any of a plethora of reasons. 	
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			cause Humans.	
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			this game is okay at best but it's hard to be positive in this drop when you have "that other" game releasing their expansion as well as another game that had a hit sequel come out continue their story and release more content.	
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			Sometimes tantrums and anger is transparency appreciation acknowledged. If there wasn't tantrums popping up like wild fire then there would only be a handful of posts a day or week singing praises and that'd be it. If this game wasn't worth throwing a fit over then that form of appreciation would be taken elsewhere, real talk.  	
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It's the genre expectation on how a mmorpg suppose to be. Many expect it to be simple as WoW or close to it with different features. However on Wild Star end they did mess up a lot during release since they carried a lot of bugs from beta and their content month release added more to the list. The product was rushed alright but it wasn't fix asap due to their focus on content releases. This is another reason which led to sub lost. Now I don't know why they're doing their release in November when WoW expansion is coming out and also a brand new patch for FFXIV ARR 2.4. That will be problematic for players to come back when you have a good game such as those and Archeage to play. I haven't logged back on this game for about or week or 2 now since drop 3 is taking way too long than it needs to be. I don't feel like to participate in pvp knowing how broken certain classes are and how they abuse their skills since it okay right now on Carbine's list. Small content patches can help heal this wound right now like mega server merge since pve plays a big role in mmorpgs franchises. This helps icnoming new players to communicate to other players and not just npcs who won't respond back.
 
If Wild Star suppose to do good in the end in the long run then it will have a very slow start building up their franchise. Tony and Frost can only do but so much to keep Wild Star audience entertained.	
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From the OP:
 
"There is not a single bug live in this game that GAME BREAKING.  Not a single bug that has ever broken the game so bad that we weren't able to play."
 
Not sure what flavor of ice cream you are choosing to be on but there have been several game breaking bugs that make the game unplayable. Let me just toss out a couple for your general education.
 
1. The 517 error. Yeah, the one that hit the game not only once, but twice in the last month for a week each. It came back last week, it wasn't even acknowledged as being broken again until myself and others pointed it out on the bug report forums and finally a CRB employee made one post saying they were looking at it. It wasn't even posted in the patch notes 2 nights ago as being fixed but it was magically fine again after the patch 2 nights ago. But for that whole week leading up to the fix people who had housing plugs that were causing the crashes literally could not log on their character and play the game as it would CTD every time because they were logged out on their bugged property. They had to submit tickets with their name/server/faction to have a GM manually boot them to a safer zone and say "now don't go back to house now ya hear, or you'll crash again". Yeah, don't use your house at all, that is easy to avoid.....
 
2. Packet loss "lag" on CRB side (despite all their tech guys trying to say it is the users and their ISP's). Makes certain zones completely unplayable with 3-5 second screen freezes every 10-30 seconds while in that zone or area. Doesn't seem to affect everyone equally but enough so that there is a lengthy post on the bug report forums on it. How do I know it is CRB and not my ISP? Because I can play Blade and Soul BETA on a Russian server halfway around the world on a beta server in Russia with 60+fps on max video settings (which I can't even get in Wildstar) with less than 150ms ping and no server lag to lock up my game.
 
But please, keep enlightening us on how we should let stuff like the above slide as growing pains. And in case this post goes poof from the powers that be I will re-post it on my blog so it remains alive and shows that CRB wants to censor posts that show them in a bad light.	
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Well I feel like this discussion is better suited for the "state of the game" thread, but eh...I'll bite...
 
I can't speak for everyone, nor would I dare to, but  least for me I'm going "ugh............crap, guess I'll just roll an alt or something..." because unless they "untie" some portions of Drop 3...from Drop 3 to release said changes earlier like QoL, itemization, rune changes, class balances(for me warrior tanks in particular). It wasn't perfect, but from my testing on the PTR personally I couldn't go back to playing my warrior on live with the same level of enjoyment, but that's just me.
 
I don't mind a delay in content, and by "content" I mean new dungeon additions, new quests, etc. They can take all the time they need to make that meaningful, but changes that would improve the current game and the existing content that some people were already holding out for are disheartened to see a further delay for one or more reasons, which to me is understandable. However in that same respect I myself don't know how their builds are structured or intertwined to say whether it'd be easy or difficult to rip one portion out of Drop 3 and work it into a smaller sets of patches building up to a content drop.
 
In the end it all jsut seems like really really bad timing and hindsight to get the QA pipeline refined, or however you want to word it.  I'll be here, luckily for me I've got a guild and a circle of lovely people I'm enjoying the game with and while I will just be shifting away and breaking from my warrior to dabble with alts more., I can't say the same for people I've seen leave or planning to jsut let the sub run out or let it remain soley activ eon CREDD. From my own personal group of contacts I know one or two that basically are waiting for changes that are tied to drop 3  as it's what is important to them.  However I also know a few that don't plan on playing until mega servers(which luckily isn't tied to drop 3 from what im reading) as they feel there is no point pushing much until that is done. For some folks Drop 3 is literally the make or break patch for them and with other competition coming into play now and later i nthe year around the time of Drop 3 II have no doubts it'll be pretty rough if it doesn't go off without a hitch(or a minor one at least)
 
We'll see though. I hope things turn out well and get better and I'm still enjoying the game, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there I suppose...
In the meantime Alts alts alts!!!	
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After 10 years WoW still has frustrating bugs. After 8 years LOTRO still has frustrating bugs. After 4 years STO still has frustrating bugs. After 2½ years SWTOR still has frustrating bugs. They are video games. They will never be anything more than that. WildStar is a video game. It will never be anything more than that.
 
Until somoeone can invent self-repairing code, video games will continue to have frustrating bugs. Me thinks folks need to get outside more.	
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After 10 years WoW still has frustrating bugs. After 8 years LOTRO still has frustrating bugs. After 4 years STO still has frustrating bugs. After 2½ years SWTOR still has frustrating bugs. They are video games. They will never be anything more than that. WildStar is a video game. It will never be anything more than that.
 
Until somoeone can invent self-repairing code, video games will continue to have frustrating bugs. Me thinks folks need to get outside more.
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Bugs are one thing, but certain aspect of the game itself itself that made a lot of players stop playing.
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Those being?
Cannot hold discussion over "certain aspects" without knowing them.
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Olivar you've been with the game for a long time and these certain aspect been said over time, but I guess it has to be repeated over and over so many can understand I suppose.
Tedious grinding: Subjective
Tedious attunement grinding : Subjective, Chua attuned in 2 days
Broken pvp balance : Chua not care about PvP, so no opinion
Class balance : What balance? Is hardest to figure out, and WoW not even get right after 10 years.
Empty servers : Don't get Chua started on this....
Dailes returning to early lvl zone : And if was new zone, would still be considered bland and boring
RNG bad loot system : Can be improved, is not game breaking. People just not used to investing time
Dye cost : Agreed, some too expensive for simply re-color.
Max lvl Amp cost : Is fine.
Gold medal elistist : Not WildStar's fault, Community at fault
If I am missing anymore on the list then feel free to add. Many of them been stated before release and one month after.
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After 10 years WoW still has frustrating bugs. After 8 years LOTRO still has frustrating bugs. After 4 years STO still has frustrating bugs. After 2½ years SWTOR still has frustrating bugs. They are video games. They will never be anything more than that. WildStar is a video game. It will never be anything more than that.
 
Until somoeone can invent self-repairing code, video games will continue to have frustrating bugs. Me thinks folks need to get outside more.
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Olivar you've been with the game for a long time and these certain aspect been said over time, but I guess it has to be repeated over and over so many can understand I suppose.
Tedious grinding: Subjective
Tedious attunement grinding : Subjective, Chua attuned in 2 days
Broken pvp balance : Chua not care about PvP, so no opinion
Class balance : What balance? Is hardest to figure out, and WoW not even get right after 10 years.
Empty servers : Don't get Chua started on this....
Dailes returning to early lvl zone : And if was new zone, would still be considered bland and boring
RNG bad loot system : Can be improved, is not game breaking. People just not used to investing time
Dye cost : Agreed, some too expensive for simply re-color.
Max lvl Amp cost : Is fine.
Gold medal elistist : Not WildStar's fault, Community at fault
If I am missing anymore on the list then feel free to add. Many of them been stated before release and one month after.
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You're defending the game Olivar, companies can be at fault too. I understand you don't like consumers criticizing the game, but without it how will it improve? If this game was so fantastic as you're imagining it then we wouldn't be here debating whose opinions are better. The game is at fault and I can see why other players left the game. You're the minority that actually succeeded on accomplishing that many didn't gain or got bored during the process. Companies are happy the minority beat their challenges, but the focus are the majority and that alone supports the game. The genre is also different too plus the fact you should not have to do a long chain quest to be attune to a raid especially in the beginning of the game. Companies can make wrong decisions and they have to improve on making it better so customers can return. 
 
If I was a new consumer reading both of our responses. I'll have to decide whose telling the truth, if I enjoy the game and why is it in this state?
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Olivar you've been with the game for a long time and these certain aspect been said over time, but I guess it has to be repeated over and over so many can understand I suppose.
Tedious grinding: Subjective - Subjective.
Tedious attunement grinding : Subjective, Chua attuned in 2 days  - Subjective anecdote, most people don't get attuned in 2 days, bad argument.
Broken pvp balance : Chua not care about PvP, so no opinion - Poor design decisions.
Class balance : What balance? Is hardest to figure out, and WoW not even get right after 10 years. - Poor design decision.
Empty servers : Don't get Chua started on this.... - Problem with retaining players due to poor design decisions. 
Dailes returning to early lvl zone : And if was new zone, would still be considered bland and boring. - Weasel argument aside, dailies ARE lazy.
RNG bad loot system : Can be improved, is not game breaking. People just not used to investing time. - Poor design decision but is necessary in MMO, just not very well hidden.
Dye cost : Agreed, some too expensive for simply re-color.  - That's actually an economy issue,  price is reasonable on servers with working economy.
Max lvl Amp cost : Is fine. - That's actually an economy issue,  price is reasonable on servers with working economy.
Gold medal elistist : Not WildStar's fault, Community at fault - You attract the kind of fly you choose, Carbine drew in a toxic community, shot themselves in the foot.
If I am missing anymore on the list then feel free to add. Many of them been stated before release and one month after.
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			Imo Carbine should release Drop 3 before WoD and whatever else is coming. Because otherwise those skeptical about coming back will be too busy playing WoD to even think about trying Drop 3 and see if it fixes the game for their liking.	
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Please show me where I'm blindly defending this game?
Do you even keep up with everything that I post on these forums, twitter and Reddit? I'm probably the biggest supporter when people go apeshit on Carbine and the game for selfish reasons, but I will tear down Carbine just as easily when they screw up or implement things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. 
 
People complain about the attunement being too long?
I advice you to try the attunements in Ragnarok Online to enter certain dungeons or even the attunements in WoW Vanilla and BC.
 
People complain the gear is too RNG and takes too long to get together?
Ever tried end-content in SWG, WoW AQ40 or EverQuest?
Took you months to years to even find the required pieces and get read to set foot in that place just to be roflstomped by the first boss.
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I don't know... I just don't know.
 
What can Carbine can do to save themselves from all this? They seems to really be in a "damned if you do, damned if you don’t" scenario here.
 
Release content too soon with bugs, and people complain. Release content slowly and people want more.
 
And with that other MMORPG release on the horizon, they just can't win at this point.	
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I would just like to pitch in why I quit subscribing, although I do keep an eye on Wildstar because it has the most potential of any game I've played and hope it will pick up a bit so I feel my time spent in game is worthwhile.
 
The final straw was watching the "drop 3" patch notes. Don't get me wrong, I see and appreciate the effort going into drop 3. However, the list keeps getting longer. History is a great teacher, and any time you patch from PTR to live you are going to have bugs is what history should have taught every gamer by now. CRB's mistake (in my opinion) is that they are trying to pack too much into drop 3 for it to work out how they plan. They are putting so much stuff into drop 3 that it's going to take months (again, history repeating itself) for them to try to fix the things that happen.
 
There are things that have been on PTR for 2 months that haven't made it live yet, and every time they put more into drop 3, there is a new set of bugs that has to be worked out to make the code clean again. In the end, they should be taking chunks of the QoL, balance changes, itemization changes and rune changes (Core mechanics) and start pushing them out prior to drop 3. By itemization I mean having SS pistols with brutality, deflect and deflect crit for example.
 
The second and slightly less severe (again, in my opinion) aspect is the grandfathered items. They know itemization is shit, they have admitted it. However, they also said that the itemization changes will only apply to newly acquired items. So why should I bother continuing to farm for drops when I know they will be inferior to what will drop when the itemization changes hit? For example, it took me 67 gold (82 total) Siege of tempest refuge runs before my tanking chest finally dropped. Yes, I ran siege 82 times before I even saw it drop. Horrible luck I know (Rng is Rng)...but what CRB basically said is that they are going to put a better one in game, from the same content I received mine...but mine will be inferior to everyone that drops there after. Assuming it takes 25-35 minutes (maybe more?) per siege run, I wasted ~40 hours of play time. The same thing will apply to raid items, so despite being attuned since the first month...I have no intention of continuing to raid knowing that itemization is garbage and the drops I get will be inferior to future drops from the same content.
 
Finally, and this is really the least of the reasons for quitting. I was bored. I wanted to play the game, but with dungeon farming being a waste of time, having all reputations at cap and my friends deciding not to play outside of raid time, I just didn't feel like I was accomplishing anything by continuing to log in. We finished a raid one night and I sat in my chair thinking. I thought about the wipes, the kills, the loot and it just didn't add up to fun. The fights themselves (for the most part) are not extremely difficult, it's people that can't follow the pattern of mechanics that make them difficult and I didn't feel any great sense of accomplishment when killing a boss because it really just meant that our usual suicidal heroes (you know them, the ones who seem to die 9/10 attempts on a boss) managed to navigate the mechanics correctly. Knowing that the itemization is broken just takes that much more out of it for me with every item I see having the potential to be inferior to it's future self.
 
So, in the end...I just sit and wait. I don't dislike CRB and I don't dislike Wildstar. I am just waiting to find the enjoyment I had for the first 30 days again. We (my static group) tried different paths on adventures, and that was interesting the first time through each path, we got gold in 3/4 of the dungeons which was fun at first but was really just a waste of time. We all just feel CRB made horrible decisions, if they are listening to the players...then they listen about as well as my 2 year old son because the player base dropped too drastically and too fast for it to be the simple 30 day fall off period that follows every MMORPG.	
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I'm going to be solid with you and yes I've been with WoW for that long. However I don't recall their quest chain for attunements being that long, killing a certain world boss and completing with a certain medal. All you had to do was touch a stone or rock  inside a dungeon. Those we're the early raids called Molten Core and Blackwing Lair that was easy to access.
 
Since you don't care about pvp means you have no clue about class balances which pays a big factor when it comes to pvp. Your knowledge is only pve at the moment until you step into the pvp zones. Then you'll see why certain abilities gets nerf and why it messes up pve players.
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Please show me where I'm blindly defending this game?
Do you even keep up with everything that I post on these forums, twitter and Reddit? I'm probably the biggest supporter when people go apeshit on Carbine and the game for selfish reasons, but I will tear down Carbine just as easily when they screw up or implement things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. 
 
I've been playing and working in games for quite a long time.
And all these threads round down to the same issues being raised: I don't want to invest time, I don't get how it works, it's too hard for me.
I'm not saying the game is perfect, but the communities these days don't want to put in any effort anymore in a game genre that used to be all about investing time and having challenges.
 
People complain about the attunement being too long?
I advice you to try the attunements in Ragnarok Online to enter certain dungeons or even the attunements in WoW Vanilla and BC.
 
People complain the gear is too RNG and takes too long to get together?
Ever tried end-content in SWG, WoW AQ40 or EverQuest?
Took you months to years to even find the required pieces and get read to set foot in that place just to be roflstomped by the first boss.
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Sorry, I totally forgot this game and any other totally revolves around PvP....
Class Balance for PvP is irrelevant for the Class Balance in PvE. This is a case where Carbine is making mistakes in not separating the balance for both PvE and PvP.
Slingers for example are already bottom of the Barrel in PvE content, and the changes made for the PvP crowd are not helping at all in our PvE progress.
Also, please avoid making generalizing statements about me not having knowledge about PvP. 
You don't know me and what I keep myself involved it. Just because I do not care about PvP, does not mean I'm clueless about it.
 
Secondly, it was not just touching a rock in dungeons. Many people got hopelessly lost in those places and needed to be guided by hand to actually enter these places.
Not to mention the requirements for BT used to be a bit more then just touching a rock.
 
 
Toxic atmosphere is not the game's fault, nor is it even WoW's fault.
WoW did promote it because they had no competition for a long time. They set "a" standard, not "the" standard. Whether this is good or bad is a subjective topic.
I've enjoyed WoW as wel and had a lot of fun for the past 10 years, but for me it's enough. The game lost it and I moved on.
 
The medal system is nice, and yes the attitude of people does not help. Again not the game's fault but the people getting baited by it.
People expecting perfect runs? Yeah well, though luck. I got immortal for example this week in KV, took me quite a few tries and learning phase to get it.
A game cannot be held responsible for the stupidity of users.
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Please avoid making statements about you not having any knowledge in pvp?  You said it yourself you have no opinion about pvp or even care. What am I suppose to come up with when I read that response? *Oh he must not have any knowledge about pvp overall knowing how every class performs there* Don't take that offensively by the way, but back to the point if you had said *I do understand why certain classes do take a nerf hit here and there* then I wouldn't have to come up with that solution.
 
As for the attunement part. The main point was in early WoW did it take very long to be attune to a raid instance? No. You didn't need a long list of requirements to be attuned. You just had to get to the end of the dungeon to complete the quest. Touch the stone in Black rock upper lair for Black Wing Lair or collect the rock in Black rock lower lair to be attuned for Molten Core.
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yes..."just" get to the end of the dungeon...
like in WildStar, "just" get silver, heck even bronze now.
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Difference is it did not require a medal to be attuned to a raid. Many don't like that concept as you do though.
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Excuse me for regurgitating something that's been said a thousand times but now I have felt it first hand! So I just logged into that other game, because if I'm gonna give slack to this game for creme fraiche then I can loosen my stance on that with the other game.
 
I was mashing my shift for sprint, movement keys for dash and space for double jump.. I was trying to attack nodes and vacuum loot before realizing I had to actually click these nodes. They say WildStar didn't bring any innovation to the table, now I beg to differ.
 
The fundamentals are here, I'll trust the captain to steer the ship!	
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I stopped reading when you called the other team children.
You can't insult people and expect them to read every word you write. Cause it's not gonna happen.
 
Mind you, I'm not throwing a tantrum regarding the update, but I am disappointed overall with Carbine's decision. I know Drop 3 will only offer 6 more hours of end game quests. But I'd prefer doing that than standing in Illium while I waited for the next raid to happen.	
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Since this is really a thread about other threads, and we already have an active discussion thread about this topic, I'm locking this one.
 
~Team WildStar	
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