149541-chase-events-nothing-but-a-dirty-grab-for-money-page-3

Page 1, Page 2, Page 3
== Content ==
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not how casino's work. That's how Pokemon and Magic cards work.... A Casino operating with guaranteed prises every time would go right out of business
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
NO! STOP!  RNG boxes are not gambling, you DONT HAVE A CHANCE AT NOTHING!
 
RNG boxes, just like booster packs for trading card games (which are not gambling), or Gachapon (not gambling), are purchasable items with random prizes. You are guaranteed a prize every time, its not a gamble.....  Just because there are rare prizes as well as common ones doesn't make it any more of a "gamble". 
 
Gambling requires putting up money (or something of value) against an uncertain outcome. Buying an item with guaranteed prizes is not an uncertain outcome; please stop pretending these crates are gambling. They have an element of chance, yes, but they are not a gamble. you ALWAYS get a prize. 
----
			
From the dictionary, with highlights and everything!
 
gam•ble /ˈgæmbəl/
v., -bled, -bling, n. 
v. 
to play at a game of chance for money or other stakes.	
to bet, wager, stake, or risk (something of value, as money) on the outcome of something involving chance or uncertainty; bet.	to take a chance; risk.	to lose by betting.
n. [countable]
any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty.Homework for Nazryn: which of the previous definitions state that gambling requires a chance at nothing?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's not true. It would depend on the value of the prizes and how the casino gets its cut.
 
And again, you are missing the point. The point is that people spend loads of money looking for that small chance reward and enjoy the thrill of the gamble. That part is the same.
 
Note, there were a few lawsuits and legal arguments over whether trading card companies putting "chase" cards in was considered gambling. This is not a new argument.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
there is no small chance, there is a 100% chance at rewards. Just because you don't get the reward you personally want is moot.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The mount isn't "worth" 150+ p. That price depends on how we manipulate the market, and how the market responds to demand and supply. Even green drops can be sold for very high prices. The value is not monetary, its purely subjective. and the Market value is likewise based on a variety of arbitrary economic processes in the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's not moot at all. Of course it matters if the reward is something you actually want.
 
The small chance is for the reward you want.
 
People aren't buying the gamble boxes for the undesirable rewards. If the desirable ones weren't there, people wouldn't buy them. Don't be obtuse.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That the item you get has an element of chance does not make the outcome (receiving an item) uncertain. 
----
			
Sigh. This whole thing with the music is depressing me.
 
I want a Valentine's gift for my husband, and he really wants the Fortress track... If anyone on Entity has it and is willing to sell at a reasonable price... please get in touch with me. ._. Wish I could just buy it for him, but I guess I don't have to rune my gear...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 Currently some of the events have left players who don't like gambling alienated.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sigh. This whole thing with the music is depressing me.
 
I want a Valentine's gift for my husband, and he really wants the Fortress track... If anyone on Entity has it and is willing to sell at a reasonable price... please get in touch with me. ._. Wish I could just buy it for him, but I guess I don't have to rune my gear...
----
			
Nazryn, clear your inbox. D:
 
<3	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nazryn, clear your inbox. D:
 
<3
----
			Still arguing semantics, Naz.  Shine on, you crazy diamond.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
there is no small chance, there is a 100% chance at rewards. Just because you don't get the reward you personally want is moot.
 
 
The mount isn't "worth" 150+ p. That price depends on how we manipulate the market, and how the market responds to demand and supply. Even green drops can be sold for very high prices. The value is not monetary, its purely subjective. and the Market value is likewise based on a variety of arbitrary economic processes in the game.
 
 
All of them. If you are guaranteed a prize the outcome is determined (action: purchase = outcome: recieve in game item). That the item you get has an element of chance does not make the outcome (receiving an item) uncertain. 
 
I sit out in the sun = outcome I change color. If I turn pink or brown does it change the definitive nature of the outcome? no.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
which is a problem of perception, not gamble. I get a box of chocolates, I don't treat it like a gamble even though I might get specific chocolates I don't like. I still got what I paid for (chocolates). I get a prize box, and I get a prize everytime, I don't treat it like a gamble. I still got what I paid for (a prize) even if I get a few prizes I don't like.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nope. If the only reason you are buying is to get one item, and you wouldn't buy it otherwise, then it isn't a matter of "perception". The only thing worth playing for is that one item. It's clear that's the way the system was designed.
 
I'm not even arguing against Carbine's system, but to claim it isn't gambling is silly. They are obviously set up with low chance to get a valuable reward, and sticking low value rewards doesn't alter it one way or another.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you get a box with multiple possible items for only a single item, that's again a problem of perception. I don't get a box of chocolates if I wan't truffles....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
NO! STOP!  RNG boxes are not gambling, you DONT HAVE A CHANCE AT NOTHING!
 
RNG boxes, just like booster packs for trading card games (which are not gambling), or Gachapon (not gambling), are purchasable items with random prizes. You are guaranteed a prize every time, its not a gamble.....  Just because there are rare prizes as well as common ones doesn't make it any more of a "gamble". 
 
Gambling requires putting up money (or something of value) against an uncertain outcome. Buying an item with guaranteed prizes is not an uncertain outcome; please stop pretending these crates are gambling. They have an element of chance, yes, but they are not a gamble. you ALWAYS get a prize. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you get a box with multiple possible items for only a single item, that's again a problem of perception. I don't get a box of chocolates if I wan't truffles....
 
Low chance at rare rewards is not gambling, it's just RNG. Playing D&D isn't gambling... Rolling for initiative isn't gambling... 
 
The only place there is such a thing as a low value reward is in your head. I value all the items I get out of the crates, honestly I value the decor more than the mounts or pets... YMMV
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But the intent and the effect of putting desirable miners behind RNG for money is pretty obvious.
----
			
I propose the
 
GREAT RNG BOX / EVENT COMPROMISE OF 2016
 
Let's keep this somewhat short and simple.
 
Why?:
 
  - F2P needs to make money for Wildstar - Events are a great way to encourage gameplay and time sensitive themed rewards.
  - Current RNG boxes, from general consensus, are leaving players with buyer's remorse and seems to create a toxic environment around the $ shop.
  - Events seem lackluster in encouraging actual content play.
  - These suggestions are worked around "already created" features in Wildstar to decrease cost of content creation and keep familiar UI/reward features to ease the use of the common player.
 
 
 
Proposed Possible Compromise:
 
 
        "Two" methods of obtaining prizes 
 
 RNG Box of Progressive Returns - Here are two possibilities on how this could work. 
 
One, as you buy RNG boxes, you fill up a progress bar somewhat like Madam Faye's - the more you buy, the greater the chances of getting (examples set by what we have seen so far) a skybox, housing music track, pet, or mount. This keeps the boxes in the gambling scope of things while still attempting to mitigate buyer's remorse. You might get lucky, you might not - but the player has a better understanding of progress towards their "purchase goal". 
Two, as you buy RNG boxes, you fill up a progress bar towards a Cash Shop unlock. This will unlock either a BoP Single Character version of the Pet/Mount for purchase from the store or another RNG Box that is only filled with Pet/Music Track/Housing Sky/Mount - the cost will be more than the average RNG Box and the items will be BoA - Single character use. 
                                                                             * Only base RNG boxes will contain BoE - Account wide mount/pets to keep them as the best reward possible from the events. Gamble big = win big.
 
 
 
 
I played, I conquered, I'm rewarded - The Event balancer
 
       Personally, I think the Events are backwards at the moment. The Events should bring more players to the content, keeping populations up, and in turn keeping customers. As it stands now, the rewards for playing are cool but don't reach out to the general player population. This instantly caps the potential of Events and their part in keeping content "fresh" for steadypopulations. Again, F2P requires an income to keep the game going and churning out content. Possible Solutions:
 
Add a Daily Event Quest - all rewards, including whats on the in game vendor (which will have the higher drop rate from these boxes), are up for grabs; BUT the chance of a mount or pet dropping are much smaller compared to RNG boxes. How many times did you weasel in a headless horseman run to get that mount? (srry but its a great example imo) 
Add an "Event Board" like Contracts. The reward progress bar is filled by turning in the Event currency. The minor reward tiers will have the RNG boxes filled with all the possible loot from the event (including the in game vendor loot). The highest tier will reward a player with a norm RNG box from the cash shop. These will also add to the RNG progress bar explained above and hopefully add extra incentive to pursue those purchases of the "playing content" path fails. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Talking only about the "problem" steals time from talking about the solutions. These may not be the best suggestions or this may not be a big deal to people - but these Events can be a truly great thing for Wildstar and so much more than they are now. I think we can all agree there needs to be a balance not only between the shop and gameplay but also a balance between what you put in and what you are rewarded.
 
#KONY2016
			
				
	Edited February 13, 2016 by Gamer Phix	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To make money the exact same way every other f2p game does?
----
			
Yes, I agree with commenting more about suggestions rather than complaints. Over and over Carbine has said these are a testing ground and they want to hear feedback. Just saying "This is bad.", "I spent $50 and got nothing.", or "If it were for $10 on the store, I'd buy it" is not constructive feedback.
 
A F2P game needs to make money somehow and RNG boxes is usually the way to go. It's not a new concept that suddenly appeared. Let's work together on trying to make that RNG box more successful for both sides.
 
My suggestion has been to add unique costume sets, weapon skins, and dye to the RNG boxes while the decor is bought on the vendor. The pet and mount can be added to the vendor but only at a very high number of currency. Hopefully the currency rolls over on the events so you can save up and eventually buy your mount after grinding for a few dungeon chases or simply throw money to buy Big Game Bucks and buy your mount that way. It should still cost more than $10 worth of Big Game Bucks though. AMPs, Ability Points, and Runebags are also nice vendor rewards for those not interested in decor.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes, I agree with commenting more about suggestions rather than complaints. Over and over Carbine has said these are a testing ground and they want to hear feedback. Just saying "This is bad.", "I spent $50 and got nothing.", or "If it were for $10 on the store, I'd buy it" is not constructive feedback.
 
A F2P game needs to make money somehow and RNG boxes is usually the way to go. It's not a new concept that suddenly appeared. Let's work together on trying to make that RNG box more successful for both sides.
 
My suggestion has been to add unique costume sets, weapon skins, and dye to the RNG boxes while the decor is bought on the vendor. The pet and mount can be added to the vendor but only at a very high number of currency. Hopefully the currency rolls over on the events so you can save up and eventually buy your mount after grinding for a few dungeon chases or simply throw money to buy Big Game Bucks and buy your mount that way. It should still cost more than $10 worth of Big Game Bucks though. AMPs, Ability Points, and Runebags are also nice vendor rewards for those not interested in decor.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To make money the exact same way every other f2p game does?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Gambling requires putting up money (or something of value) against an uncertain outcome. Buying an item with guaranteed prizes is not an uncertain outcome; please stop pretending these crates are gambling. They have an element of chance, yes, but they are not a gamble. you ALWAYS get a prize. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's not a problem of perception. It's a problem of the item only being available in that one place.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't care about any of this stuff. I have no interest in buying the boxes. But the intent and the effect of putting desirable miners behind RNG for money is pretty obvious.
----
			
So much back and forth on this is getting ridiculous.
At this point I think it's just a matter of "I want it now!" and "It's not fair!"
 
At the end of the day, Carbine is here to make money. If you don't agree with the RNG cases you don't have to buy them. Save up your omni or farm some plat for the next time it comes around, and it will. Throwing your real money at the screen isn't the only way. You'll just have to have more patience, but eventually you can have it if you really want it that badly.
 
Of course this just my opinion and you're welcome to take it or leave it. :)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
NO! STOP!  RNG boxes are not gambling, you DONT HAVE A CHANCE AT NOTHING!
 
RNG boxes, just like booster packs for trading card games (which are not gambling), or Gachapon (not gambling), are purchasable items with random prizes. You are guaranteed a prize every time, its not a gamble.....  Just because there are rare prizes as well as common ones doesn't make it any more of a "gamble". 
 
Gambling requires putting up money (or something of value) against an uncertain outcome. Buying an item with guaranteed prizes is not an uncertain outcome; please stop pretending these crates are gambling. They have an element of chance, yes, but they are not a gamble. you ALWAYS get a prize. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
  Just because you don't have a chance at nothing doesn't mean its not gambling the definition isn't black and white like that. As soon as you put the risk of your funds against a chance to win something its gambling.. just think of it this way a lottery where everyone at least gets a consolation prize for participating.
 
As I have stated before im not against this practice.. its a part of every f2p game out there. But if carbine wants to take advantage of all the demographics in this game than they need to add stuff that can just be bought from the cash shop exclusively (not the rng box rewards) .. im sure carbine is making a killing off the boxes.. but how much more money could they be making if they made some cash shop buyouts for those that wont buy boxes... its a no brainer here.
 
A good example would be have one mount in the rng boxes.. maybe have a reskin of the same mount from the cash shop making sure their is an obvious visual differance between the two.. that way the guy who hates rng boxes can buy a mount and the guy who won one can parade around knowing not many have that mount... it would be a win win for both types of players. Carbine would make an addition profit off the shop mount that they normally wouldn't have gotten had they not made it an optional purchase during the time of the event.
----
			
I could agree with so much here if not for
 
A) Wildstar is F2P
 
B) It's probably the best F2P model on the planet! No matter how small Carbine have become, they are still running a AAA game, and it needs paying for. No one here, at Carbine, at Ncsoft, or any other company have come up with another solution ? Carbine maybe smaller, but they are not a 5 man indie studio. It may be gambling. It may not be politicly correct! But make no mistake....it's the only thing that's keeping the doors open.
 
C) The choice is ours, live with it or live without the game! It really is that simple, no one said we need to like it.
 	
----
			I have open over 200 boxes and still no mount this is some of the worst rng boxes I have seen the only reason I know that the mount is in the boxes since I have seen 3 people in game with them the mount looks like it has less than .5% to drop from the box and the boxes being flooded with items that I can get in game from the event makes this 10 time worst. The boxes should have items the are can only be found in the box not something that I can get in game. I well also say I do not mind rng boxes only if they are are not flooded with Items that i can get in game. The mount was the only thing I wanted out of the box not in game items that I can find in game. sure it was my bad for buying all thoughts boxes but by the end of it I felt like all you did was take my money for In game items that I are in game I would not be mad at all if the stuff that I were thing that I could only get from an rng box and not stuff that I can get in game from the event.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I have open over 200 boxes and still no mount this is some of the worst rng boxes I have seen the only reason I know that the mount is in the boxes since I have seen 3 people in game with them the mount looks like it has less than .5% to drop from the box and the boxes being flooded with items that I can get in game from the event makes this 10 time worst. The boxes should have items the are can only be found in the box not something that I can get in game. I well also say I do not mind rng boxes only if they are are not flooded with Items that i can get in game. The mount was the only thing I wanted out of the box not in game items that I can find in game. sure it was my bad for buying all thoughts boxes but by the end of it I felt like all you did was take my money for In game items that I are in game I would not be mad at all if the stuff that I were thing that I could only get from an rng box and not stuff that I can get in game from the event.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I have open over 200 boxes and still no mount this is some of the worst rng boxes I have seen the only reason I know that the mount is in the boxes since I have seen 3 people in game with them the mount looks like it has less than .5% to drop from the box and the boxes being flooded with items that I can get in game from the event makes this 10 time worst. The boxes should have items the are can only be found in the box not something that I can get in game. I well also say I do not mind rng boxes only if they are are not flooded with Items that i can get in game. The mount was the only thing I wanted out of the box not in game items that I can find in game. sure it was my bad for buying all thoughts boxes but by the end of it I felt like all you did was take my money for In game items that I are in game I would not be mad at all if the stuff that I were thing that I could only get from an rng box and not stuff that I can get in game from the event.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
I could agree with so much here if not for
 
A) Wildstar is F2P
 
 B) It's probably the best F2P model on the planet! No matter how small Carbine have become, they are still running a AAA game, and it needs paying for. No one here, at Carbine, at Ncsoft, or any other company have come up with another solution ? Carbine maybe smaller, but they are not a 5 man indie studio. It may be gambling. It may not be politicly correct! But make no mistake....it's the only thing that's keeping the doors open.
 
C) The choice is ours, live with it or live without the game! It really is that simple, no one said we need to like it.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Another post I agree with! But in my head it keeps coming back to the thin white line, one step over it and the game shuts it's doors...if only we had the player base to play trial and error :(
 
----
			
Another post I agree with! But in my head it keeps coming back to the thin white line, one step over it and the game shuts it's doors...if only we had the player base to play trial and error :(	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
It's a safety mechanism to control the economy.
If everyone is able to craft the same weapon, the most powerful variant it would have dire consequences on the economy and the prices for things.
I can understand his is frustrating, just like failing a craft with the "0% fail rate" but these are required meassures to keep the economy in check.
Crafting has bigger issues to solve, and the random slots are not one of them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Explain this to me. I want you to type out what you just said in detail and see what it sounds like when you read it. Because to me it sounds like you are saying, "We're making the game less enjoyable because if we don't, the game might become less enjoyable. " which is a lot like shooting yourself in the head to avoid a headache. 
 
Your logic seems flawed since even at the best levels of crafting, even if we didn't have random sockets, it's still a pain in the muffin to make anything better than what amounts to starter gear for running dungeons. I mean, what is the HUGE risk here? That people will have a large supply of optimized gear they can buy off the AH to start running dungeons in? You know what we call that? "Having fun with our friends." it's kinda the point of the game.
 
The devs seem to have forgotten that what keeps a game alive is positive player experience with other players, not playing spreadsheet simulator 9000. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not saying the system is perfect, and crafting needs to be fixed.
But the idea behind the randomized crafting is that the RNG factor keeps the crafting in check by enforcing failure.
The amount of successful crafts of the best item is reduced, making it so that not everyone can immediately obtain it
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But it's not the best item. Nothing in crafting is the best item. It's at best a stop-gap until you get into real gear when you raid with your guild. 
What the devs fail to realize is that they are making the same mistake that other MMO's make where they are trying to slow down progression when they should be trying to accelerate it because humans interacting with other humans is what keeps a game's population engaged, not the story, not the graphics, not the puzzles nor the lore, but PEOPLE. 
 
Having your own starter dungeon gear, optimized to the build you want to try, that you crafted with your own digital hands, so that you can join your friends in dungeon running on day 1 of being max level is what makes for a positive experience. Anything less is just stupidity on the part of the developers because they are working AGAINST the longevity of the game. They are working AGAINST people having fun. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. You can put out all the nifty content in the world, but if someone is playing it alone, the game won't last.
 
Crafting's ultimate goal should be to help people level as fast as they can and plunge into the end game content with their friends once they get to max. If I had my way each item of crafted armor would give you a 1% XP boost so crafting armor and items are actually worth something as you level.
 
Grinding is not fun. Leveling is not fun. Achieving levels is fun. Reaching level cap is fun. Playing with your friends is fun. The devs need to realize if they want the game to thrive, they need to focus on fun and engagement not micromanagement. 
----
			Agreed with what Olivar said.	
----
			If it says 0% fail rate, then it damn well better be 0% fail rate. That is all I want. I've watched my husband fail way too many crafts that wasted really expensive mats with NO indication that it had a chance at failing.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If it says 0% fail rate, then it damn well better be 0% fail rate. That is all I want. I've watched my husband fail way too many crafts that wasted really expensive mats with NO indication that it had a chance at failing.
----