Report 1013

Report #1013
Skillset: Night Skill: Scourge
 Org: Shadowdancers Status: Completed Jan 2013
Furies' Decision:
Solution 3 - 1.25 second balance loss.
Problem: Scourge once served a purpose in SD combat walongside choke, the
delayed curing in choke allowed the afflictions (blindness, removal of deafness)
to hinder the target. Without any real way to hinder or slow down curing,
scourge is now outdated and largely unused, which also affects how effective the
barghest can be as it will not paralyze deaf targets. This report aims to give
scourge a niche in SD combat, namely, to give SDs some active hindering that
they generally lack.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: The effects from scourge can not be cured/removed for
 1.5 to 2 seconds after the skill is used. A cloud of
 shadows plagues your senses and you fail to cure your
 blindness./You shake your head vigorously as the
 cloud of shadows about your head dissipate) Blindness
 as well as timing it with the barghest will give SDs
 abit more hindering capability.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Scourge will also knock the target off equilibrium
 and cost 1 power. Concentrate to regain equilibrium.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: In addition to current effects, scourge will knock
 the target off balance for 2 seconds.
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 12/30 @ 18:55 writes]:
I like the solutions proposed here- any of them would help Shadowdancers fill up
a gap in their offense created by the change to the class. I will admit to a
certain preference for either solution 1 or solution 2 as either of them would
also have some utility for Ebonguard as well, whereas solution 3 would keep it
mostly in its current state as far as useability goes. Solution 2 is probably
the most powerful here, with solution 1 being a partial-hinderer (it will stop
offensive moves, but doesn't hinder escape). Will definitely be interested to
hear the input on this from others, however.
---[Celina on 12/31 @ 19:21 writes]:
Removed solution 3 because I don't think it solved any problems. Also accepting
other solution ideas!
---[Aeden on 1/1 @ 22:35 writes]:
Alright this is -much- better. I like solution 1. Solution 2 is not needed in my
opinion, thats what the brownie is for. Also, SD doesn't lack hindering at all.
Hexes mainly, but I assume this is to work with shadowtwisting, which is fine
and all. Also, Healing also provide quasi-offense upkeep with bedevil + scroll
of curses. Astrology not so much, so I can see it being problematic right there.
Although... I think the pigwidgeon needs a stronger proc rate to keep them in
room.
---[Shuyin on 1/2 @ 19:50 writes]:
Solution 1
---[Llandros on 1/3 @ 15:31 writes]:
Im ok with tweaking scourge. However, I am not a fan of incurable or giving
whisper to SDs. Making 1 use herb balance instead of being incurable would be my
preference. Doubt many people would use their health balance to cure them so you
would get 1 second of blindness and 2 of hearing.
---[Enyalida on 1/5 @ 20:17 writes]:
I'd support making scourge do something besides blind/undeaf if desired, but
incurable blind/deaf seems like a stretch to me, outside of a very short
duration (~1 second). Blindness is an excellent offense hinderer, stopping both
active attacks (all) and many passive effects (like demesne effects, love
potion, etc.), especially for no power cost and theoretically at range.
---[Celina on 1/5 @ 21:44 writes]:
Vines stops all offensive attacks too, for no power cost. So I'm not seeing the
issue with a 2 second blindness. It's purely an offensive hinder, as it does not
stop actual movement. Love potion has no effect on an SD, and terror is a
entirely different skill.
---[Celina on 1/5 @ 21:50 writes]:
In other words, it was meant to be a strong offensive hinder because the SDs
only have vines for offensive hindering. I'm even fine with a 1p cost.
Llandros's suggestion will actually not change the skill at all. People
typically cure blindness first as is, and then give themselves deafness. 3
second eq, time with barghest for a 1 second paralysis. Net loss of
effectiveness, which is what we already have. The report is meant to make the
skill useful, folks, and fill the niche of offensive hinders that SDs currently
possess very little of.
---[Llandros on 1/9 @ 13:36 writes]:
My suggestion would give you half a second less of blindness than you ask for
without introducing a new mechanic. I'm not opposed to tweaking scourge but I
dislike incurable in general.
---[Tacita on 1/9 @ 15:57 writes]:
Solution 1.
---[Rivius on 1/18 @ 02:29 writes]:
I don't like the solutions presented very much. If I'm understanding this report
well, it's basically asking for an earache effect -and- a prolonged blindness
for no power? The first argument I saw presented for this was that it would be
useful to an Ebonguard. Scourge was honestly never a skill used by the Ebonguard
outside of a few specific situations like trying to stop a chasm. As a warrior
I'll say that I'm fairly certain this will fall into similar disuse with any of
these changes. As far as 'filling a hole in shadowdancer offense', I have to ask
which hole this is meaning to fill? This is an honest question. I'm not sure I
agree that they have any lack of hindering at all at the moment. Keep in mind,
since a recent report, barghest has a very decent chance to stun a deaf target
which is actually worse in some cases than paralysis (outside of the 250 mana
drain of focusing body). As it is, scourge strips truehearing and causes
blindness which gives you a lot of time to take advantage of barghest still (as
blindness is a high priority herb cure and that's more or less it's only cure
too, so you still have a whole herb balance before you need to worry about
truehearing being back up).
---[Celina on 1/18 @ 05:51 writes]:
The hole is what I said it was in the problem section. Lack of hindering. You
can disagree all you like, but you'll have to back it up...because I can say
generic web enchants/forest restricted vines are the extent of active SD
hindering and that's just a fact. Passive SD hindering is 1 second balance less
every 12 seconds and the stun you are citing that averages 1 second of stun
every 24 seconds. Trust me, if I could have a sure thing paralysis over the
chance of a stun, I'd take it. I've already been over the barghest issue with
current scourge. You can't seriously argue a 1 second focus body cure, if timed
correctly, for a 3 second equilibrium is worth anything. You wouldn't ever use
it, I don't know why you are arguing like you would. I don't know why you're
opposing this based off of your comment. All you've said is 1) Xenthos is making
things up and 2) SDs don't have a hindering issue with no evidence other than a
barghest argument that is easily disputed with math.
---[Celina on 1/18 @ 06:06 writes]:
The point is to give SDs (and to a lesser extent EGs) a powerful offensive
hinder that allows for an option outside the harsh limitations of vines spam, or
generic web spam. Something thematic and hopefully unique while revamping a
skill that fell by the wayside after choke went the way of the dodo. If people
are stuck on incurable (I don't know why, the effect is short and has no
repeated or lasting "incurable" afflictions so the vague opposition makes no
sense) we can make it knock people off herb balance instead. Works just as well.
---[Rivius on 1/23 @ 21:08 writes]:
Alright, well the complaint seems to be not that you lack hindering but that you
lack much variation. I still don't agree this is a problem nor that this is the
direction to take it, though if we had to go with the solutions presented, would
a small powercost on solution 1 (1-2p) be reasonable to you? The delay on curing
both the lack of truehearing and sixthsense still seems to be a little stronger
than is being estimated.
---[Rivius on 1/23 @ 21:12 writes]:
Sorry, I meant blindness in the above comment in place of sixthsense.
---[Celina on 1/24 @ 01:58 writes]:
No. I really don't like repeating what I have explicitly stated. We have a lack
of hindering. Vines is limited. It does not stack with web. It can be summered
off. It is all we have. There is a difference between lack of variety and lack
of capability. You can replace vines with this and still have no variety, and it
would be fine, because it would be generally effective rather than situational.
Solution one is just a better hinder that stacks with existing skills and
keeping the skill in line with what it already does, and what it did in choke,
plus stacks with existing skills (barghest). 1 power cost is fine if it's at
least 2 seconds incurable. Or solutions 2 and 3.