135280-if-developers-were-paid-via-commission-instead-of-salary-would-this-happen

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			It would still happen. This happened probably because NCsoft rushed the game's F2P transition in order to wedge them between GW2 F2P and GW HoT.
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by eMachiavelli	
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			What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Tribulation	
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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52 bugs in the code
52 bugs in the code
Patch a bug, deploy the fix
107 bugs in the code.	
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			As a developer I can say, yes this would still happen. Developers do want the company to make a profit so they can stay employed and have a nice bonus come christmas time. This isn't because Carbine's dev said "screw this, I'm going to go home play vidya". Shit unfortunately happens.
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by zombiechan	
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			No...because they would get better jobs and there would be no MMOs.	
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As a developer I can say, yes this would sill happen. Developers do want the company to make a profit so they can stay employed and have a nice bonus come christmas time. 
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As a developer I can say, yes this would sill happen. Developers do want the company to make a profit so they can stay employed and have a nice bonus come christmas time. 
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			Remember that it's not just the money, but their reputations on the line.	
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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52 bugs in the code
52 bugs in the code
Patch a bug, deploy the fix
107 bugs in the code.
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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			The question implies that Carbine isn't "trying hard enough" which there is no evidence of.  If these problems could have been predicted they would have been and we wouldn't be seeing them now.  By all means continue looking for somewhere or someone to point fingers at, just know that it won't fix things any faster and you will only end up just as frustrated as when you started pointing.	
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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{| class="blockquote"
I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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OP, watch this and you will understand why this wouldn't work.
 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dgKKPQiRRag	
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The question implies that Carbine isn't "trying hard enough" which there is no evidence of.  If these problems could have been predicted they would have been and we wouldn't be seeing them now.  By all means continue looking for somewhere or someone to point fingers at, just know that it won't fix things any faster and you will only end up just as frustrated as when you started pointing.
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No. Because you know what happens when you give people that stress on top of their jobs? Anxiety. They make more mistakes. People burn out even faster. The fear of losing everything might seem like a motivator, but it does not help productivity when that is the main thing on your mind. 
 
And as noted previously, no matter how much effort you put in. Shit will always happen.
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Here's my argument. History repeats its self, hundreds-if-not-thousands of MMOs have released. Have we not learned from the mistakes of others?
 
It's like being a military commander and repeating the mistakes at the Battle of Cannae over and over again.
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It would still happen.
 
All developers are used to one fact, even though we all hate it:
 
With every little thing we fix, we break something else.
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The fact that you think the developers haven't put any effort in only shows how incredibly ignorant you are with regards to programming. 
 
With an application as complex as an MMO, it is impossible to release any update without bugs. You children complained for a year about content, but whenever they release content, you pitch a tantrum about it not being perfect.
 
Guess what, code has bugs. All of it. In every application. Everywhere. 
 
So developers have two choices, never release content until all the bugs are found (and thus, never release content,) or release content with as much testing as possible and hope that any bugs encountered have a minimal affect on the application.
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It would still happen. This happened probably because NCsoft rushed the game's F2P transition in order to wedge them between GW2 F2P and GW HoT.
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Why would anyone in their right mind "decide" to release a buggy program?
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I don't think you understand software in the slighest.
 
NOTHING you make, will EVER be bug-free.
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I feel like that's wrong. Maybe programmers are just getting rubber stamped in online classes now-a-days and thats why we have all of this regression with products?
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That's not wrong.
 
Nothing ever released by a human being will ever be perfect. Until machine learning is at the point where an AI could rewrite it's own code, you will never get to the holy grail of perfect software.
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			Crazies coming out of the woodwork!!	
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You're saying you've experienced an mmo launch where ALL interested players were able to play, starting at day 1?
 
There were no login issues, not strictly related to their servers, but also related to other factors?
There were no videocards saying "screw you" when starting the game?
There were no crashes, EVER, because of a silly thing that they didn't expect?
There were no fps issues, with pc's that could technically handle it?
There were 0 issues, whatsoever, and nobody was posting in their technical help channels to get things working?
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How come I've experienced MMO launches that weren't like this?
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Yeah.
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I want proof of this.
 
Including their launch date, so i can verify no threads were posted on their forum during launch in the technical section.
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1: This isn't a launch. Game's been out since the end of May 2014.
 
2: There was another MMO that just launched a big expansion two weeks ago that didn't have insane server issues OR screw over their existing player base. It does happen.
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I want proof of this.
 
Including their launch date, so i can verify no threads were posted on their forum during launch in the technical section.
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You seem to be entirely missing what this thread is about, and what he's been claiming.
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This isn't a launch though. Wouldn't matter. This is a year+ into its life.
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Why would anyone in their right mind "decide" to release a buggy program?
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Right, so because you can't get proof, you use that as an excuse.
 
Gotcha. Moving along.
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You must be new... Or slow.
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Right, so because you can't get proof, you use that as an excuse.
 
Gotcha. Moving along.
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OP, watch this and you will understand why this wouldn't work.
 
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dgKKPQiRRag
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Literally, game just dropped a huge xpac weeks ago without these issues. That's the proof.
 
And this still isn't a launch, so comparing these issues to launch problems is comparing apples to oranges.
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Here you go, since you refused to read up.
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Here you go, since you refused to read up.
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What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
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I read it, but it still isn't a launch.
 
So enjoy proving that no MMO launches without problems, which is irrelevant to where we are today. Although I assume you were banking on proving that entirely separate issue false and then claiming that it somehow applies to the situation that Carbine is currently in.
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My god. You must have failed basic reading class.
 
I was replying to his original statement, i was NOT conveying the message like it pertains to wildstar whatsoever. You're turning it into that, nobody else.
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What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
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Then why are you so hell bent on proving it false? Congratulations, launches don't happen perfectly, you win the Internets. Doesn't do a thing to change the fact that this is a content drop for a game that's been live since the end of May 2014.
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Whether it's a launch or a relaunch is semantics and completely irrelevant. It's frustrating to see people debating such unproductive things.
 
The bottom line is, the population of the game inflated massively due to what happened. What you call it isn't relevant. They attempted to design a system to deal with that and the system didn't work and the game is in really bad shape because of it.
 
Go ahead and debate whether or not it's reasonable to be irritated by their failure if you like, but the semantics crap is unhelpful and a waste of time.	
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			yea i mean any sort of tech development team gets a bonus, which is like a commission just not sales based.	
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You still fail to grasp this thread.
 
This thread was a question to whether commission based payments would've changed anything. The thread later got to this point. I was replying to it from a developers point of view.
 
How is that so hard to understand?
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Stop telling me what I do or do not grasp. That isn't an argument.
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Whether it's a launch or a relaunch is semantics and completely irrelevant. It's frustrating to see people debating such unproductive things.
 
The bottom line is, the population of the game inflated massively due to what happened. What you call it isn't relevant. They attempted to design a system to deal with that and the system didn't work and the game is in really bad shape because of it.
 
Go ahead and debate whether or not it's reasonable to be irritated by their failure if you like, but the semantics crap is unhelpful and a waste of time.
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Gotcha, still ignoring the rest that i write.
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What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
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			Probably, because developers do what the bosses order them to do. So instead of smashing the poor ant workers, start aiming yoir guns higher.	
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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I feel like that's wrong. Maybe programmers are just getting rubber stamped in online classes now-a-days and thats why we have all of this regression with products?
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			im curious to what kind of database are they using. 	
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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I read it, but it still isn't a launch.
 
So enjoy proving that no MMO launches without problems, which is irrelevant to where we are today. Although I assume you were banking on proving that entirely separate issue false and then claiming that it somehow applies to the situation that Carbine is currently in.
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			Just saying, if you want an update, GO TO THE TWITTER! Most hotfix/update posts they make they respond. And why on earth would developers or even community employees scour the general discussion area of a forum to respond to complaints? If you have a complaint, post it in bugs. If they don't respond, sorry but they simply can't answer every single post. Probably dozens of topics are made every ten minutes. There's no feasible way they can respond to individual topics (and trust me there've been dozens on just this issue of "how could this have been done better")	
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It's absurd to suggest that they aren't working hard. If you were a fly on the wall, I doubt you'd find them slacking.
 
The question is, are they good enough?
 
From what I've played of the game in moments when it actually works, there are certainly some brilliant designers, artists and animators working for the game (or who have worked for the game); but so far, the side of it that's to do with nuts and bolts doesn't seem to be working very well.
 
Whatever the cause, the fact is: the game is actually not playable by many people.  That's like, your number one criterion of having something called a "videogame" at all, that it's actually something people can, you know, play.
 
Somewhere, somehow, despite an awful lot about the game being great, there's been some huge boo boos made with this game.  Most likely, it's something to do with management, it usually is.
 
It's all relative though; even a genius will be fazed if the problem is tough enough.	
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What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
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Would this have happened if the folks at Carbine were paid on commission instead of salary...?  Yes.  I think it might have been even worse.
 
There's no reason to assume that they weren't putting in the same level of effort as they would have on commission, their job is still what puts food on the table and a roof over their heads.  More technical tasks inherently come with more risks; risks that you can't make go away with more money or threat of not being paid.  That will make people work just hard enough not to starve to death - not aspire them to achieve greater creative contributions (whether they be organizational processes, technical innovations, or a combination of those kinds of concepts).  Some things just have a "wildcard" nature to them and there's not enough cash in the world to make that go away.
 
Normally incentivizing an individual to pursue a higher risk career field requires more pay and a stable financial environment, threatening someone's income based on their performance in a high risk career field will make them "play it safe" and that is about what you will get:  the "safe" stuff, or boring stuff in the case of video games. 
 
Commissioned sales are fine for ventures where success or failure can be determined through sheer motivation and interpersonal communication skills which are more fluid in nature but are largely subject to the whims of the customer.  They're not so great for motivating people to achieve better results when the task is complex and requires a great deal of technical savvy, but is also more "fragile" and can be sabotaged by obscure and difficult to diagnose details.  The unpredictability of the task needs to be offset by an understanding that the people performing the task will have a chance to correct the error once the problem is diagnosed to continue pursuing innovative ideas.  Causing people to be afraid that they will lose their job or their livelihood will only make them nervous and hinder their ability to think clearly, thus reducing the effectiveness of the work performed for the organization.	
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You want to know a real good question that if answered would shine some light on why server issues which at the rate its going will take 2 weeks to fix? 
 
Q: How many of the original development team from WS Original Launch are still at the current HQ? Just curious. :)	
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			A lot of time the publisher covers the development cost and the developers get a small share of the revenue. There can also be incentives and penalties for various milestones or conditions. But this doesn't necessarily make for a better game. For example, EA (one of my least favorite publishers) often spends huge on marketing and making a game look pretty so they have big initial sales, but the game is often shallow and the followup support is weak.	
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Here's my argument. History repeats its self, hundreds-if-not-thousands of MMOs have released. Have we not learned from the mistakes of others?
 
It's like being a military commander and repeating the mistakes at the Battle of Cannae over and over again.
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			As a developer, I am more curious how a commission based system would be set up ( monetarily ) that would be mutually beneficial for both the publisher and the developer?  Because honestly, from experience.... Publishers are scum bags.	
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As a developer, I am more curious how a commission based system would be set up ( monetarily ) that would be mutually beneficial for both the publisher and the developer?  Because honestly, from experience.... Publishers are scum bags.
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Turned it off a minute and a half in. Their test was a load of hooey. Skill based challenges performed by non-professionals.
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Developers are not the problem.
Management and project managers are.	
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im curious to what kind of database are they using. 
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Microsoft SQL
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What if the paychecks of a developer were reliant on actually generating revenue. Do you think things like this would still occur?
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What if all you freeloaders suscribed when the game launched a year and a half ago : Do you think things like F2P would have occured ?
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Hey Hey Hey....
Stop using common sense on these boards!
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Microsoft SQL
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OP deserves the biggest facepalm in the history of facepalms.
 
Coding is easy, preparing servers is easy, making a MMO is easy. 	
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Here's my argument. History repeats its self, hundreds-if-not-thousands of MMOs have released. Have we not learned from the mistakes of others?
 
It's like being a military commander and repeating the mistakes at the Battle of Cannae over and over again.
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I understand that but if you knew you wouldn't be able to feed your family, pay your electric bill, or do anything - really, would you not put more effort in?
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Threads like these do such a fine job of pointing out the individuals who not only know the least of what they're talking about, but also assume they know the most at the same time.
 
A combination so rare that Lays is considering making it a flavor of chips for their contest.	
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Threads like these do such a fine job of pointing out the individuals who not only know the least of what they're talking about, but also assume they know the most at the same time.
 
A combination so rare that Lays is considering making it a flavor of chips for their contest.
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			How is this thread still alive?  It is ridiculous to think that stuff is broken because Carbine isn't motivated enough.  Take off the tin foil hats there is no conspiracy to keep you from playing a video game.	
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Hi everyone
 
Im a reasoneable person, i understand issues can come with f2p release but seriously? it was my first experience with this game. I bought game a few days ago before f2p..it was perfect but since that moment...a HUGE lag, unable to conect,i cant create new chars, ect, ect, ect
 
Do you know how bad can be that for new players?they are going to give up and leave game. this company dont want this i know that but...this is awful, very awful..and another day i cant play...	
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