Report 1752

Report #1752
Skillset: Combat Skill: Stance
 Org: Gaudiguch Status: Completed Jul 2017
Furies' Decision:
Sure. Clumsiness will also stop stancing.
Problem: Currently Warriors and Monks are both countered via Parry. The problem
arises in that they both have vastly different reasons for selecting what to
parry and in this Envoy's opinion causes situations where the moment you have a
warrior+monk combination you will lose to one or the other with little to no
recourse. This report is also up for discussion on the Envoy Wiki.
[A:10 R: 1] Solution #1: Remove Parry as a counter to Monks and instead use
 Combat Stances. Splitting Stance% among limbs for
 those that have multiple areas covered.
[A: 8 R: 2] Solution #2: As well as Solution 1, Remove anti-parry(stance)
 mechanics from monks
[A: 9 R: 2] Solution #3: As well as Solution 1 and 2, Allow kicks to be
 stanced against.
Player Comments:
---[Danquik on 6/30 @ 03:17 sets as pending]
---[Bandeon on 7/1 @ 19:58 writes]:
I'm against sol 2. Anti-parry/stance mechanics for monks trade an affliction for
a guarantee to hit the intended target. I think that's a good trade.
---[Veyils on 7/1 @ 21:05 writes]:
Supported all options. The anti parry/stance mechanic lets you set up a simple
rotation to basically ignore parry right now. I'd much prefer if correct
parry/stancing was rewarded and monks are forced to shift focus on body parts.
Monks afflictions will need tweaking but well they are still a work in progress
class.
---[Anelissa on 7/2 @ 15:54 writes]:
@Veyils Danquik said remove anti-parry(stance) in Sol 2, so that covers only
changing the surge high strike through parry stuff. That doesn't include the arm
action drop parry mechanic.
---[Anelissa on 7/2 @ 15:56 writes]:
That said, I'm all for sol1. Sol2 I'd rather not. But sol3 I'm behind in
addition to Sol1.
---[Veyils on 7/2 @ 19:35 writes]:
Ah that wasn't clear to me. I think it would be a good idea to simply remove all
the anti-parry arm moves from all monks and switch their effects on a case by
case basis.
---[Shedrin on 7/5 @ 19:58 writes]:
I like the idea of keeping parry for Warriors only. This makes it much easier to
write a parry script.
---[Tarken on 7/7 @ 20:44 writes]:
Not opposed to making stance for monks and parry for warriors, but also support
solution 2. Another idea I was mulling over for that was making the monk parry
disables only work -below- surge, so they have that going for them in their
somewhat weaker early game but can't lock out parry entirely when they're at
their strongest.
---[Wobou on 7/14 @ 14:06 writes]:
So it looks like the Gods have decided that sol. 1 is not going to happen given
the removal of the various skills. I'm trying to think of what stances sol. 2
actually impacts, sol. 3 I'm okay with. One request I'd make that's related to
all of this but not explicitly mentioned would be to add the body part parried
(or stanced if sol. 1 passes with a miracle). Right now you get a generic parry
message which means to adequately track which part was parried you need to have
have some complex triggers including your own attack lines or some sort of
tracking of your own forms. Ideally it'd just say in the message "Blah parries
your strike on their <part> with <weapon>" so you could make an echo for that.
---[Xenthos on 7/16 @ 01:10 writes]:
It's been stated that the skills have not actually been *deleted,* just removed
from the skillset. So they can be repurposed and put back in, if that solution
is accepted. We did ask about this one.
---[Veyils on 7/18 @ 19:11 writes]:
Supported for all and also the concept of removing an anti-parry/stance ability.
---[Ciaran on 7/25 @ 08:58 writes]:
Agree. Anti-parry/stance for monks should probably get axed. They can juggle
prone and clumsy just as well as warriors as far as I can tell. Support all
solutions.
---[Ejderha on 7/30 @ 08:20 writes]:
I feel like this is an overreaction and overreaching solution beyond the stated
problem. The problem stated is monk and warrior combinations, but the solutions
will not help monk+monk or warrior+warrior situations that do the exact same
thing. Synergy between classes is not bad. Regarding sol 2: This is completely
irrelevant to the problem as stated. If you move monks to stances, what is the
warrant for removing anti-stance? The problem statement makes no claim about it.
Removing anti-parry(stance) seems unclear what we are arguing about - if, as
Anelissa said, it is ONLY about stance effects, and those stance effects are
replaced with something (which is not included in the solution?) then I can see
that I guess, but it is not germane to the problem. I see no reason to remove
anti-parry/stance arm actions as some suggest, and it would generate a lot of
work to, as Veyils put it, switch the effects of all of the lost actions on a
case by case basis. In the meantime, those actions are useless, because there is
no solution presented here. Because every monk spec is different, access to
prone/clumsiness is not universal. Monks do not get a power move to bypass
parry/stance, because classes are different, and class differentiation is good.
Monks have differentiation even within classes, and broad, major changes like
this that do not address the problem statement are, I think, unwarranted. I am
not convinced of the problem, and I do not think any of these options are the
correct way to solve it. I am rejecting all three.