Report 1619

Report #1619
Skillset: Minstrelry Skill: Yaikoyaiko
 Org: Minstrels Status: Rejected Feb 2017
Furies' Decision:
No.
Problem: Minstrels were given an ego kill setup, but no real way to actually
build on it outside of shotnote (costs power) or the insta attempt (costs more
power to do less). Minstrels lack an active way to use their primary offense to
support this goal, and with the last change to jitterbug we would like to focus
on that as our means
[A: 0 R:13] Solution #1: Increase the drains from yaikoyaiko based on number
 of mental afflictions.
[A: 0 R:13] Solution #2: Make yaikoyaiko only drain ego, but increase the
 amount drained, with an increase for mental
 afflictions on the target.
Player Comments:
---[Shedrin on 2/12 @ 00:59 writes]:
Can't you use m6 to drain ego and aurics to synergise with the drains? Second,
what numbers were you thinking?
---[Demartel on 2/12 @ 08:44 writes]:
I agree with Shedrin, while there may not be specific pressure on ego from
stanzas, there is active pressure from other skills. The problem statement
therefore is quite misleading. I also agree that just asking for something on a
"number of mental afflictions" is not a solution. Please provide real solutions
with real numbers.
---[Falmiis on 2/12 @ 11:03 writes]:
1) Yaikoyaiko already scales with tempinsanity. 2) Bards already have a lot of
vital pressure and if allowed to set up properly, this vital pressure can be
deadly. 3) In terms of vital pressure from songs, Minstrelry already has the
highest of all the bard specs - adding even more will make them much too
powerful in comparison to other specs 4) Wasn't your opposition to Telepathy
PsychicVampirism being given scaling ego drain based on mental affs due to how
easy it is to stack affs in groups? Why is this not even mentioned in this
report, numbers aside.
---[Auriella on 2/12 @ 11:16 writes]:
I'm sorry but this is not needed at all. First of all, bards are not lacking in
the vitals pressure department, in fact I would put them at the top of the list
of pressuring vitals. M6 actively drains mana/ego so I am not sure how you are
lacking an active way to use your primary offense, you also have aurics to aide
in this. You also have AlcoholFumes which drains ego as well. FireFugue and
CanCan which pressure health. What sort of numbers are you looking at? Are you
going to cap it? It should be capped. Will it count for all mental affs or just
the mental affs of the bard that afflicted you with? I also have to echo Falmiis
comment on your opposition to the TP report, how is this any different?
---[Enyalida on 2/12 @ 23:25 writes]:
To add to the above: there aren't any numbers associated with this report.
---[Shuyin on 2/16 @ 02:40 writes]:
I don't disagree with the premise of the report given that Minstrel songs don't
really support their ego kill method, but I would agree that having actual
numbers would be beneficial towards the discussion
---[Wobou on 2/16 @ 06:09 writes]:
Can we get the current the drain amounts for yaikoyaiko? I agree that proposed
numbers would be good but in addition to that we also need to know where it
stands now. I'm not opposed to either solution on principle but vagueness,
especially if we're talking about an undefined number being multiplied by mental
affs is concerning to me.
---[Aeldra on 2/16 @ 12:49 writes]:
I have no principle rejection against the idea or even the solutions, but I
can't really approve something where neither a scale idea is provided nor has
there been a discussion as to how this could look like in the comments.
Apologies for the late reply, am not sure how this report slipped through, but
my concerns have already been stated by some of the above commenters.
---[Malarious on 2/18 @ 01:39 writes]:
I would leave the damage to interpretation I think. This was not meant to be a
"I win becuase I have it" effect, it was more substitute damage as we move
things over
---[Wobou on 2/18 @ 07:37 writes]:
Here are some numbers from the test server, all done on self using paranoia and
a max ego of 9300: YaikoYaiko by itself (on an uninsane target) is ~175 ego
drain (and a similar mana drain). YaikoYaiko with Alcohol fumes increased the
total ego drain to ~760. Shotnote appears to be about ~1.2k. Temp insanity
scaling works as follows (this is all with YaikoYaiko + AlcoholFumes): Slight:
No additional scaling, Moderate: 406 mana, 1.1k ego, Major: 710 mana, 1.5k
ego,Massive: 1k mana and 1.8k ego per tick. Drunkenfool causes ~2s of blackout
and ~1.3k ego damage.
---[Wobou on 2/18 @ 08:11 writes]:
Given all of that I would be opposed to both solutions if the insanity scaling
is not removed. I know there aren't many illuminati around but keeping that
insanity scaling and adding a mental aff scaling in addition is too much synergy
in my opinion. In terms of ego YaikoYaiko currently adds around 1k in reward for
massive insanity. We can try to use that as some sort of basis to think of
numbers for your proposal. I think I would be alright with (100 + 1%) per mental
aff, that would put you at around 1000 additional drain for 5 mental affs. It
would be a buff in most cases (which I imagine is the goal here) because a
minstrel appears to not be able to cause any insanity but can cause mental affs
(so you could time shotnote with your tick to guarantee at least 2 mental affs
for the tick) and this would also scale further than it currently can at massive
insanity because there are 11 mental affs, so if you somehow stick them all the
tick would be +11% and +1100. I'm not sure if that's a problematic possibility
or not. You could always cap it at 5 mental affs if it is.
---[Lerad on 2/20 @ 12:37 writes]:
I think when the change to put minstrels' insta as an ego kill was envoyed, the
numbers were hashed out quite a bit. They're supposed to have taken into account
the entire minstrels kit when the numbers were put together. I'm not opposed to
making Minstrels maybe have some kind of viable tempinsanity building strategy,
though I'm not sure how we will want that to work.
---[Shedrin on 2/22 @ 21:56 writes]:
I voted reject due to the Minstrels envoy voting reject and the general lack of
arguments for the report, however I'm not against changing how this works in
principle for future reports.
---[Tremula on 2/26 @ 21:05 writes]:
When this report comes back with an alteration or two and an approve vote from
the Minstrels envoy, I'll be open to it once more. I like the concept, but as
Wobou pointed out, there needs to be some adjustments.
---[Falaeron on 2/26 @ 21:51 writes]:
I should note that YaikoYaiko scales with astral insanity, which can get very,
very high compared to tempinsanity. If anything, the scaling should be capped to
the massive tempinsanity levels if this is the direction you want ot go.