Report 565

Report #565
Skillset: Skill: Thunderclap
 Org: Geomancers Status: Rejected Feb 2011
Furies' Decision:
We do not find this to be necessary.
Problem: The entire purpose of stonewalls is that they take more than one hit to
break. If your opponent can break them in one hit, there's no reason to use them
over icewalls. Thunderclap is a skill purchaseable by ascendants in every org
that does indeed destroy stonewalls in one hit for a marginal essence cost.
While it is, of course, limited by having to be an ascendant, this doesn't
matter awfully much because all you need is one ascendant to bust stonewalls for
the whole group. As more ascendants and vernal demigods are added to the game,
the issue will become only more pronounced.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Change thunderclap to do x amount of wall damage, x
 being enough to one shot an icewall, but not one shot
 a stonewall. In exchange, it will also extinguish
 firewalls and tear down briar walls (walls that can
 already be one shot, one at a time).
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Replace thunderclap's current effect with giving
 prone/paralyse to all enemies (those afflictions
 chosen because they cannot stack over themselves,
 aren't stun, and paralysis only takes 1s to focus at
 trans discipline). Raise essence cost to 30k and give
 it a 20 - 30 second cooldown.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Replace thunderclap's current effect with gusting
 each of your enemies in a random direction. Raise
 essence cost to 15k and make usable only once per day.
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 2/14 @ 23:31 writes]:
I'm not sure I buy that the 'only reason for Stonewalls is that they have more
health than an icewall'-- there is, after all, the ability to do GEOCAST
STONEWALL DEMESNE which one cannot do with icewalls. That's a pretty
significant boost right there. They also cannot be taken down by anyone with an
ignite enchantment, but only by someone who A) Is an Ascendant (a very limited
number, at most 3 per org + 1 per year), and B) has invested a lot of essence
and used up weighting (or was raised through the War domoth). Further, a lot of
us don't even buy Thunderclap, so just because more are in the game does not
necessarily mean that the issue will be more pronounced (unless, of course, they
ever get around to reweighting the things). Honestly, I'd prefer to see
stonewalls be made easier to knock down than they currently are. Halve their
health or something. There's too much disparity between them and other walls.
I'm not convinced that we need to make them stronger than they are.
---[Prav on 2/15 @ 03:41 writes]:
I don't personally see this as necessary. Stonewalls are the most difficult type
of wall to take down, I think it is fair that Thunderclap is able to remove them
and agree with Xenthos when he says that he would prefer that they be made
easier to knock down.
---[Viynain on 2/15 @ 04:56 writes]:
To echo the above, I don't believe this is necessary as well. If people want to
spend 8mil essence just for a very situational power, then let them have it as
it is. As for your other solutions, no. I don't see the need to convert the
power into an offensive attack when its effects are nicely limited already.
---[Nydekion on 2/16 @ 00:43 writes]:
Truth be told, shofangi ram, which has essentially the same functionality, has
existed for some time now and has particularly lessoned or discouraged the usage
of stonewall. As mentioned in previous comments, vernal ascendants and likely
still true ascendants will remain in limited number in the forseeable future and
stonewalls have no particular special cost to cast (only really requiring
tainted ground) so this change is unnecesary. If anything, it underscores the
fact that environment crashing is woefully inadequate in dealing with stonewalls
if ascendants feel it necessary to take up the power for the sole reason of
destroying that wall type.
---[Fillin on 2/18 @ 02:53 writes]:
As you might guess, I'm not the biggest fan of the shofangi stonewall breaker
either. However, that's just a one org counter, similar to how Glomdoring can
counter rad with bonds, for instance. It doesn't invalidate the skill. On the
other hand, Thunderclap, being available to all orgs, kinda does.
---[Xenthos on 2/19 @ 00:40 writes]:
Being available to a very select few, and of those very select few, almost none
of them actually buying it... there are 2 whole people with the skill aside from
yourself who got it for free with 0 weight. Out of what, 12 Ascendants and
another 4 or so Vernal Demigods? Again, I say, don't nerf Thunderclap. Make
Stonewalls easier to bust down. They have their own advantage in that they can
be done area-wide, and even if it only takes two crashes / blasthorns / etc. to
break one, that's still twice the time it takes for an ignite enchantment on an
icewall.
---[Talan on 2/20 @ 03:36 writes]:
With the sweeping changes made to limit the number of ascendants to any given
org, this isn't much of a problem. We'd all love it if you'd go ahead and use
icewalls.
---[Sahmiam on 2/21 @ 02:21 writes]:
I think as the forcefield report indicates, there being a small amount of people
with a skill/item does not mean that the skill/item is unbalanced. I don't buy
the argument that it's not a problem simply because it's limited to a select
few.
---[Xenthos on 2/21 @ 14:51 writes]:
Except we already know that's not the case here, Sahmiam, because of Ceren's
response to the Shofangi aspect of it (which is a 'select few with access to a
skill' as you put it): "However, that's just a one org counter." His report is
not about it being accessible by a select few, it is about it being 'more
widespread than a select few'. I have responded that such is not actually the
case. I feel like you've missed his argument entirely! And if you think Mages
with Barrier are a 'small amount of people,' then I think you've got a pretty
strange definition of small. Mages tend to very much love their barrier. Hence
the need for the report, when it clearly had issues.
---[Fillin on 2/24 @ 08:47 writes]:
Oh trust me, if I thought I a report that encompassed both ballbuster kick and
thunderclap would have a chance of succeeding, I'd do it. Thunderclap is just
the much bigger fish to fry. Also, you're strange. I know you know it's called
forcefield...
---[Xenthos on 2/24 @ 23:55 writes]:
Indeed it is, I didn't feel like making another comment to correct it. I was
99% sure anyone reading would figure out what I meant given the context (and you
did!). I also think that more people currently possess kick than thunderclap,
no? There are 3 with Thunderclap, so I'm not really buying that it's the bigger
fish to fry here. Perhaps the one more common for Magnagora to work against
these days.