Report 1586

Report #1586
Skillset: Ninjakari Skill: Illgathoru
 Org: Ninjakari Status: Rejected Jan 2017
Furies' Decision:
We do not feel this is necessary, and with the upcoming monk overhaul, we are
reluctant to make large changes to monks.
Problem: Currently the skill Illgathoru has afflictions that either are no
longer going to be, or have already been phased out of overhaul. This report
seeks to replace those afflictions with new post overhaul afflictions. Currently
Illgathoru does the following: cause severed phrenic (chest), sliced tendon
(gives mutilated legs), open gut, severed nerve (gives hemiphhlegy), and heavy
bleeding (head).
[A: 1 R:13] Solution #1: Replace severed nerves with multiate arms. Replace
 severed phrenic with crushed chest. Replace open gut
 with internal bleeding. Sliced tendon has already
 been switched to mutilated legs and bleed is fine for
 head as is.
[A: 2 R: 9] Solution #2: Same as solution 1 but add a -2 mo cost to the
 ability.
Player Comments:
---[Wobou on 1/2 @ 05:12 writes]:
I think I'm okay with all of these although I think this skill should cause
extra momentum loss if it causes a mutilate. Mutilate is arguably a better
affliction than sliced tendon was and if I'm understanding the skill correctly
you can currently grapple -> Illgathoru over and over which is a pretty high
rate of mutilates.
---[Shango on 1/3 @ 02:39 writes]:
Sounds fine with me. Till Monks get their Overhaul, patching the broken skills
in the meantime will do a lot to keep them viable in the interim
---[Falmiis on 1/3 @ 22:55 writes]:
No. Mutilatedarms is straight up a stronger affliction than collapsed nerved.
Crushedchest is arguably a better affliction and also goes from a smoke myrtle
cure to a delayed ice cure. Open gut to internalbleeding also moves it from a
simple marjoram cure to a delayed ice cure. These are all buffs suggested under
the guise of replacing overhaul afflictions. If the monk overhaul was simple as
that we'd have done it a long time ago.
---[Dahlla on 1/6 @ 06:02 writes]:
@wobou I am ok added a -mo cost for it. See solution 2. @falmiis collapsednerve
was a regen cure (delayed), crushed chest was, in fact, regen, not myrtle. So
also delayed. and internalbleeding would be an instant cure. Also we are not
overhauling, we are replacing some skills that changed, instead of keeping par.
---[Shedrin on 1/6 @ 07:45 writes]:
The problem statement indicated that it currently deals severed phrenic, not
crushed chest.
---[Dahlla on 1/7 @ 03:08 writes]:
@ Shedrin Correct, Falmiis's argument was that crushed chest was a myrtle
afflicition, and it's not. it was a regen affliction that got changed to a
delayed ice affliction. I was just correcting him there. Currently the chest
affliction is severed phrenic. We want to make it crushed chest.
---[Shedrin on 1/7 @ 03:51 writes]:
I read his comment as saying that you are wishing to move the skill from doing a
myrtle cure to an ice cure. Ice is on a longer balance than herbs and increases
in potency with wounds for groups, which I think is a valid comment.
---[Falmiis on 1/8 @ 23:09 writes]:
Please read my comment more carefully. I am saying that 1) collapsed nerve going
to mutilatedarms is a buff, because mutilatedarm is stronger as an affliction,
2) severedphrenic is a myrtle cure while crushedchest is a delayed ice cure,
which makes this another buff (instant cure -> delayed, strength of being able
to deliver ice affs in general) and 3) open gut to internalbleeding also moves
it from a herb (marjoram) cure to a delayed ice cure (same concerns as
crushedchest basically). Internalbleeding is not an instant cure. It is the same
affliction required for Pureblade exsanguinate.
---[Anelissa on 1/8 @ 23:31 writes]:
One of the biggest issues with trying to switch monk skills to overhaul
afflictions, is that the current state of overhaul curing doesn't take into
account how quickly we can cause these afflictions, especially in terms of
ninja, the infamous ninshi-yank loop is a prime example of this. Also, making it
a -1mo loss isn't going to do anything to be honest. You ninishi at mo4, that
bumps you to 5, yank with the mod, that drops you down to 4, ninshi again, that
back to 5, repeat. Thats what the whole ninshi-yank loop is. But swapping all
these afflictions to overhaul cures is not the answer. Now your adding a level
of synergy to monks that knights, and monks have not been really designed for
yet, and is likely to cause a lot of balancing issues, which will end up causing
everyone more headaches. As for, replacing skills that changed, hemi is still
around,I use it everday. So, there really is no need to replace that until that
is removed with overhaul.
---[Wobou on 1/9 @ 01:45 writes]:
To clarify my comments before, according to the ABs I have the ability already
causes -1mo, my suggestion is to make it -2mo (at least in the cases of
mutilates).
---[Anelissa on 1/12 @ 20:30 writes]:
I have reversed my stance on hemi, realizing it is a 2 mo action for only a
single hemi, when we can give double hemi in a form early and often, that is a
bit unbalanced. I wouldn't mind changing hemi to mutilate IF the limb is already
broken. This allows you to ninshi+kick, then akogh the limb and yank. This will
increase the mutilate to -2 mo (as suggested by Wobou) and falls in line with
most of the single form mutilates the other monks have (as well as how your
single form mangles worked). I stand unchanged on my opinion of everything else.
---[Shuyin on 1/14 @ 18:26 writes]:
These suggestions are straight buffs, they are only replacements in name. Not
comfortable with that. I support Anelissa's stance on this.
---[Malarious on 1/17 @ 19:18 writes]:
Prefer only changing the arm affliction right now. This used to be a regen cure,
so changing to delayed aff is more in line. However, we may need to add another
-1 potentially. So partially 1 and all of solution 2
---[Salome on 1/19 @ 01:48 writes]:
I agree with Anelissa, Malarious and Shuyin. Straight buffs aren't the answer.