102280-what-now

== Content ==
			
Si I get to 50
 
Get my attunement and am ready for World Bosses.
 
next I get to Raiding.
 
Yet I am in a small guild that has less then the 20 needed for Raiding and no chance of 40 man raids.
Warplots are a farce and as cool as they sound, impossible to enjoy.
 
Do I leave my guild and join the various other that are attempting to steal players for the same reasons my guild has, lack of players. Or they want to have the interview process to see if you are good enough to be in their guild, leading to elitesim.
 
You game is failing at what you originally intended, as far as I had read. Large scale grouped content that is hardcore.
 
Well that Hardcore you want is as everyone should know 2% of a MMO's gaming community.
 
The mass exit of players shows this.
 
It is not that the game is hard, it should be. It should not punish players that are not hard core players that are ok with constant repeats to solve the process to get to raiding.
Players need to have 20 man raiding accessible. The process to get there is annoying at best what with all the rng and bugs in the game.
40 man raids should be for the hardcore guilds and THAT should have been the big hurdle to get over.	
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If every guild had 300 players who raided, then joining a guild that could put together 40-mans at the mere sight of a gchat message would be a non-decision. Active 40-man raiding guilds are few in any MMO that features 40-man group content. WildStar is no exception, nor will it ever be the exception. It comes down to what you want to do.
 
If you have pull within your guild, I personally would suggest you make a proposal that highly recommends your guild buddy up with other raiding guilds in a similar situation. Following up on that would be your raid leader's responsibility, who would normally assign someone to make those connections. This would allow the guilds to collectively schedule a weekly 40-man while keeping their independence between raids.	
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Welcome to the same thing every guild struggles with in any game ever. We are in month two and the community is balancing out. This "mass exodus" is nothing more than those leaving that did not like the game or are serial MMO hoppers. This is not new and it's to be expected.
 
I will say that if you WANT to experience raids NOW and don't want to help your guild recruit and attune others, then your only real option IS to go to another guild. Also the "interview process" is not a bad thing and has been around since MMOs existed. These processes are put in place to make sure that the guild isn't wasting your time and you aren't wasting theirs. This is a team sport and every team needs to make sure they have the right chemistry. These "interviews" are one way to figure that out. 
 
Also I don't think it's failing at it's orginal intent. It was meant to be a game catering to "hardcore MMOers" that wanted that old school MMO feel. For better or worse, I feel they've delivered it, and what we see now are the "casuals" leaving and whining that the game wasn't accessible enough. Maybe thats because it was never meant to be 100% accessible to every player, and had put roadblocks in place to keep people from consuming every stitch of content 2 weeks into release.
 
If you like the game and want to raid NOW, do a little forum research on availabile guilds, find one that fits your needs, apply, interview, and move on to the next step in progression. There are tons of guilds on various servers that are in the 20 mans and clearing content. You just need to look and be willing to move if there is nothing on your server that meets your needs.  	
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If every guild had 300 players who raided, then joining a guild that could put together 40-mans at the mere sight of a gchat message would be a non-decision. Active 40-man raiding guilds are few in any MMO that features 40-man group content. WildStar is no exception, nor will it ever be the exception. It comes down to what you want to do.
 
If you have pull within your guild, I personally would suggest you make a proposal that highly recommends your guild buddy up with other raiding guilds in a similar situation. Following up on that would be your raid leader's responsibility, who would normally assign someone to make those connections. This would allow the guilds to collectively schedule a weekly 40-man while keeping their independence between raids.
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If by balancing out you mean Plummeting, transferring servers and flailing to find a player base big enough to do the content before the inevitable server mergers and the staff is reduced by 20% so content and updates come even slower (not that those updates or fixes would be the ones that are required) than they are now..
 
Then.. Ok.
 
There is a rude awakening on the way for both Carbine and all you elitists / Hardcore kids.. very rude. Some of it is right in front of you now.
 
LFM...	
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If by balancing out you mean Plummeting, transferring servers and flailing to find a player base big enough to do the content before the inevitable server mergers and the staff is reduced by 20% so content and updates come even slower (not that those updates or fixes would be the ones that are required) than they are now..
 
Then.. Ok.
 
There is a rude awakening on the way for both Carbine and all you elitists / Hardcore kids.. very rude. Some of it is right in front of you now.
 
LFM...
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I am assuming you are basing your "plummeting" statement on actual subscription numbers that you have access to to verify that it is in fact doing as you say? 
 
Still don't understand the individuals that came to this game and expected that this would not happen. They marketed this game from day one to be exactly what it is. They didn't hide that at all, but yet people still complained and left. Works for Carbine, because they at least got that initial sale.
 
I personally have not had any problems playing with my guild and working through my raid attunement. We've been doing just fine in our group and we intend to be doing just fine in the future. Server populations be damned.
 
I just love all the doom and gloom, it fuels me.
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well, thats nice for you. But chua over here not raider and has nothing to do.
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I guess any feedback from Carbine on how the players of the game are feeling.
Not the misdirection tactics but honest facts on numbers playing on the various servers...faction balance numbers and what their plan is.
 
This game has less servers for the reason it has larger population availability on them, yet I see 2/3rds less people on caretaker then I had in the past. Vitrually no one making new alts, or even new players that are leveling through the lower levels.
Crimson and Northern daily zones are empty.
 
My server Caretaker, lists as Medium and many listed as Full just a month ago.
Sure many players are now in the Grouped content for adventures and dungeons and some raiding, but I can not think 2/3rds of that are doing that.
 
I will assume all the other servers are the same.
 
If carbine and NCSoft are happy with the number and the complaints then that is fine and I as I am sure others can deal with that and continue.
 
What I hear and see are upsetting to me, as a smaller guild that maybe can not raid on our own, but if the entire goal for us lesser guilds is to get Gold on Vet Dungeon runs that yield nothing in the way of gear progression because of the rng, then where's the fun in that?
 
Even doing WotW now is a challenge on some rng modes, fun, maybe, irritating, of course, but the end once gold is accomplished and recieveing not a single purple other then a Pattern is depressing.
 
Do not think this game is not for me, if it is then there is no mmo for me these days, and maybe that is at the heart of mmo's these days.
 
Guildies are now complaining that the World Boss attune process is a pain. Reseting bosses and the rng on the various types, spawn rates and getting there to kill them.
 
Believe me I like the process yet the process is flawed right not and frustrates myself and I guess others.
 
The fact that a couple guild have gotten onto raids affirms that it can be done without major issues, yet they did so when things were unbalanced and shortcuts were taken.
 
Now I see other shortcuts in videos that allow for easy Stormtalon attunement. Players will always find the easy way...Carbine could just allow it, or find a solution to players gaining other avenues to attunement?
 
Anyhow, finding a new guild...if it were your guild, would you just pack it up? Join another guild as a whole and crawl looking for the hand out, even though your's is an excellent guild at Vet Dungeon runs?
Just be absorbed and become one of the lesser's, only there to fill the need otf the guild you join?
 
I guess we will continue and pick up stragglers that have left or been kicked from their guilds and have not gone to larger Farm guilds where your in or out depending solely on you ability to produce dps as opposed to actually being a guild.
 
 
BTW are raids just a dash/dps race or are there actually tactics involved?	
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Welcome to the same thing every guild struggles with in any game ever. We are in month two and the community is balancing out. This "mass exodus" is nothing more than those leaving that did not like the game or are serial MMO hoppers. This is not new and it's to be expected.
 
I will say that if you WANT to experience raids NOW and don't want to help your guild recruit and attune others, then your only real option IS to go to another guild. Also the "interview process" is not a bad thing and has been around since MMOs existed. These processes are put in place to make sure that the guild isn't wasting your time and you aren't wasting theirs. This is a team sport and every team needs to make sure they have the right chemistry. These "interviews" are one way to figure that out. 
 
Also I don't think it's failing at it's orginal intent. It was meant to be a game catering to "hardcore MMOers" that wanted that old school MMO feel. For better or worse, I feel they've delivered it, and what we see now are the "casuals" leaving and whining that the game wasn't accessible enough. Maybe thats because it was never meant to be 100% accessible to every player, and had put roadblocks in place to keep people from consuming every stitch of content 2 weeks into release.
 
If you like the game and want to raid NOW, do a little forum research on availabile guilds, find one that fits your needs, apply, interview, and move on to the next step in progression. There are tons of guilds on various servers that are in the 20 mans and clearing content. You just need to look and be willing to move if there is nothing on your server that meets your needs.  
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Azyurel has the best advise for you...
 
 
Honestly what did you expect when you bought this game.  They advertised their raids as 40 man.  What did you think was going to happen with your small guild when you got to end game?  I am in a small guild at the moment, and we are busy recruiting and trying to progress through attunement.  In vanilla WoW I was in a small guild as well, we raided MC with two other guilds and progressed just fine, albeit a lot slower then the larger guilds.  I don't need to be on the cutting edge of content, I just need to feel like I am progressing through the game.  By progression, I don't mean a new epic everyday, I mean beating that boss I couldn't beat last week or hell even getting the boss to 25% instead of 50%.  Progression comes in many shapes, sizes and colors.	
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Also I don't think it's failing at it's orginal intent. It was meant to be a game catering to "hardcore MMOers" that wanted that old school MMO feel. For better or worse, I feel they've delivered it, and what we see now are the "casuals" leaving and whining that the game wasn't accessible enough. Maybe thats because it was never meant to be 100% accessible to every player, and had put roadblocks in place to keep people from consuming every stitch of content 2 weeks into release.
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			Good luck church make sure you  bring a nice bulldozer to break all them troll walls down if you are interested i am an architect in making weapons i could sell you guns, i am planning to build a  Mammoth tank with big guns ,interiors and stuff it will come in handy too	
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So the problem here is that not only the casuals find themselves with nothing to do at level 50 
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what now?
 
find yourself another game i guess..
 
i can speak for myself. i don't play as much as ive played in the first weeks that's true. what i do in the game every day is crafting (and selling stuff on AH), frozen wastes dailies, helping new recruits through the dungeon process if we got groups going, farm the consumables i need for raids and raid at raid nights.
 
all of this takes around 1-1.5 hours (disregarding the raids or if we got a dungeon group going). and i feel my time is well spent.	
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If every guild had 300 players who raided, then joining a guild that could put together 40-mans at the mere sight of a gchat message would be a non-decision. Active 40-man raiding guilds are few in any MMO that features 40-man group content. WildStar is no exception, nor will it ever be the exception. It comes down to what you want to do.
 
If you have pull within your guild, I personally would suggest you make a proposal that highly recommends your guild buddy up with other raiding guilds in a similar situation. Following up on that would be your raid leader's responsibility, who would normally assign someone to make those connections. This would allow the guilds to collectively schedule a weekly 40-man while keeping their independence between raids.
 
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I hate it when people justify bad devs/decisions like this just because they want to fanboy.
 
FFX11 did it PERFECTLY fine, with up to 48 man bosses/reserve parties.
 
So stop justifying a bad implementation, things could be and should be changed.
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you can find small guilds and do a guild fusion just like this
 
 
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b9vwWxxrJ4	
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Hold good sir; You want to compare XI to wildstar then we need to first come to terms with the FACT that FFXI was a JMMO with content walls that actually WERE preposterous, exp loss/ deleveling, and content so sadistic and needlessly punishing it makes W* look like a cupcake. 
 
Now, about XI and raids... it was a @#$%@#$ mess. You waste weeks farming items in sky just to force 50 people to sit in a room and drop one or two abilities on a mob when you spawned it... to get more items to maybe eventually finally pop Byako, Seiryu, Suzaku, and Genbu... to farm MORE items to maybe pop Kirin and get 2 items to fight over... And that was ONLY after the first expansion, pre RoZ there were 3 BS dragons that were just a literal mess of useless items and rofl-stomped dreams.
 
over Half the time alliance HNM's failed; mostly because enmity and claiming were absolute sh!t in XI. competing alliances could and frequently would grief other alliances while they were in combat... and even when they succeeded it wasn't anything to write home about, and the system was FAR from 'perfect'. 
 
If some one came up to me, looked me in the eye, looked at Sea and all the OG CoP BS (not the post- casual catering system) , and tell me XI's system was perfect, I would literally punch them in the mouth. Rather, I would farm 6 months and let Absolute Virtue do it for me...
 
Jeesh
 
-75 Taru RDM.WHM.BLM/SAM/DRK pre casual BS
Renosky of Ramuh
 
-Naz
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It sounds like video games have desensitized you to violence. There are professionals who can help with this sort of thing.
 
If you weren't happy with that method, maybe hardcore games aren't for you. Although, honestly, this game is pretty far from hardcore. There's no penalty on dying besides a negligible repair cost, you don't lose your gear you're wearing when you die, travel is pretty fast with no-wait ports to continents and numerous ways to get back to the main city (the taxi is the noted and terrible exception), and you can make money and get items while doing *cupcake* all else.
 
But the leveling system in FFXI made you learn to be good at your class. If you were a bad, your group would drop you and you wouldn't get any xp, and you HAD to group to kill mobs. It's a shame carbine didn't incorporate something like that, might have made the transition into silver adventures/dungeons less abrupt and might have helped stave off these plummeting numbers.
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Also a good option.
 
There are circles in the game for a reason. If your guild doesn't have the numbers, look to do co-guild raids. A lot of guilds did this in Vanilla WoW, EQ, EQ2, and even FFXIV ARR.
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It sounds like you didn't play FFXI when CoP first came out, otherwise you probably would be familiar with that particular quip from when AV was literally impossible to kill with out exploiting bugs ( until they upped the level cap)
 
Very first thing I stated; FFXI was a JMMO. That necessarily means it was far more hardcore than any typical NA/EU game. everything you say about the levelling in XI is true, but what passed as the raiding system (the instanced and non-instanced HNMs) was a literal mess.
 
I've found that while the NM adventures do a mediocre job; some of the expeditions actually do a good job of prepping folks for dungeons. Unlike XI, W* has a lot more leeway in terms of playing your role (Tank/Heal/DPS) than XI; where everything was down to micromanaging a handful of specific precision timed skills; There's definitely a learning curve for the serious end  game content; but there is also one for dungeons in general, and when that curve pops up IMO is not a deal breaker (whether its from level 10 while levelling like in XI, or at level 20 while running your first dungeon).
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Maybe this should have been designed as a JMMO then, and not...whatever it ends up being.
 
I just feel like for a game that advertises raiding and group PvE, the 1-50 process needed to be much more group-based. BGs, lowbie adventures/dungeons, optional 2-man mobs, it can all be ignored and the player can solo through to 50 having no idea how to play or how to function in a group, then hits the wall of learning positioning and mechanics.
 
It really would have been a much smoother experience overall with some/most of the leveling requiring grouping. That learning curve you mentioned doesn't even exist until 50, leveling is a cakewalk.
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well, thats nice for you. But chua over here not raider and has nothing to do.
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			It looks like you have to be crafting in order to get the best gear as loot has been nerf at least in adventure and dungeons. Raid loot doesn't look like it has been effected but I can't get into raids yet.	
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It looks like you have to be crafting in order to get the best gear as loot has been nerf at least in adventure and dungeons. Raid loot doesn't look like it has been effected but I can't get into raids yet.
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Ok, serious question, I really am not trolling here, but... so what? Plenty of games are based on crafted gear being either the best or among the best. why is it so terrible that crafted gear *can* rival Adventure and dungeon gear... wouldn't that make it easier to have folks on a level playing field to start raids if they couldn't get the RNG for dungeon / adventure drops?
 
I honestly don't understand why its so bad, what am I missing?
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Becuz then, whats the point of spending 6 hours raiding and getting no gear.... when I can spend 1 hour doing dailies and farm the money to buy/craft a better item than my 6 hours investment of nothing?
 
Or like I and many others, just have enough money already to craft an entire set of better gear, now making me wonder, wtf should I go raid for? It's kinda boring the raids to be honest, fun at first, but the exact same thing and only a tiny bit of diversity between objectives/raids?
 
Boring....
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Because you aren't raiding, you're running dungeons and adventures? and they are fun? And you get bragging rights, and you get plenty of loot that is great (just because the purps from them are very rare / comparable to the best crafted gear doesn't make all the loot irrelevant), and because you need some of the loot for attunement (the primal patterns for 40 man), and because you are playing with a group of friends / guildies and you enjoy the content / challenge? 
 
I mean, it's not as if the only reward for doing adventures and dungeons is a slight chance for purps...
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Oh wait no I can't, because my guild doesn't do attunements. 
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Ok, serious question, I really am not trolling here, but... so what? Plenty of games are based on crafted gear being either the best or among the best. why is it so terrible that crafted gear *can* rival Adventure and dungeon gear... wouldn't that make it easier to have folks on a level playing field to start raids if they couldn't get the RNG for dungeon / adventure drops?
 
I honestly don't understand why its so bad, what am I missing?
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			This isn't craftstar this is wildstar, why do we have to be force to be crafters to have the best gear available after the nerf gold loot.	
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Problem is there are players that hate crafting as they take too much time levelling up so we prefer just killing primes and bosses to get the best gear available. Then we have players who took their time crafting up instead of killing bosses and mobs buying crafting components/equipment from the loot we non crafter sell after our dungeon runs.
 
In the end it just feels like we are doing more tedious work for the best gear in adventure and dungeon while the crafters just buy stuff from us and craft gear up which is more convenient for them. It doesn't help the biggest rebuttal after the gold loot nerf, happens to be 'just do crafting instead of whining like a baby as crafting equipment is better than the loot in vet dungeon' which means we are wasting our time doing dungeons instead of taking a short cut like crafting.
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You don't have to craft; make friends with crafters. You can buy crafted gear as easily as crafters can. and honestly all the gear in the world isn't going to help a bad player in pre-raid. 
 
As a crafter, I can tell you the more tedious work is NOT the adventures or dungeons; those are engaging, require skill, and can be pretty fun with the right group.
 
Tedious is the weeks to months it takes to even unlock the schematics for the best crafted gear, not because of skill, but because we can only get 1 eldan fragment a day from the Elder-craft gating quest.
 
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Im so confused ..this game is all about raiding. Thats like getting an electrician apprenticeship and then refusing to work with anything electrical once finished?
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It's still a short cut and you only need to do fewer dungeon run because you already crafted the best gear. While we have to do it repeatedly because of the stupid new RNG system for gold loot in dungeons. 
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Some will rush to 50 in 3 days because they think that's where the fun begin. For me the fun begin at the character creation, questing, discovering the world, the lore and finally the end-game. I'm still in the first part. There is so much to do and i'm enjoying myself a lot. Maybe that's why you are confuse.
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I see where you're coming from. I think we have radically different opinions for the intent of vet dungeons though.
 
When I run dungeons, it's either to help guildies learn the fights for future silver medal runs, or to actually do a silver medal run for attunement. If nice loot drops, then so be it. I would burn out so fast if I did vet dungeon loot grinding because that will seriously kill the game experience for me. Even if I didn't have crafted gear, I still wouldn't do it that. Adventure grind? Big maybe. Doubt it though.
 
I definitely see what you mean though about crafting gear "diluting" dungeon gear even though it's challenging content. Feels like you swing away at a dungeon for however long and don't see that much return. Some people value loot and some people value social happiness. I'm the latter camp.
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Nice wintrading by the way. 
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I kinda edited my post I typo'd that entire thing, replace Raid with dungeon, or just re-read as I did and reiterate your argument in a new form.
 
Also when people start getting mad (happens in ANY hardcore game) no it's not fun, especially when shit talking happens, now realise that I can just bypass all this gear and go straight to raiding with purely crafted items.
 
Oh wait no I can't, because my guild doesn't do attunements.
 
Guess it's back to the lack of diversity dungeons again.
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It's not really much of a short cut. You still have to complete the attunement, you can't bypass it just with gear. You don't need purples from dungeons or adventures for raiding, and you were never meant to need them. They were supposed to be tremendously rare for bragging rights; not necessary items for raid progression. Raid sets WERE intended as necessary for progression (need a good bit of the 20 man gear for 40 man raids). Even if a 'crafter' bought the perfect crafted gear for every slot (impossible enough due to RNG on crafted gear), they would still have to successfully complete attunement... what other hoops do you have to hoop through that they don't ?
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Even if a 'crafter' bought the perfect crafted gear for every slot (impossible enough due to RNG on crafted gear),
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Nice deflection
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I guess any feedback from Carbine on how the players of the game are feeling.
Not the misdirection tactics but honest facts on numbers playing on the various servers...faction balance numbers and what their plan is.
 
This game has less servers for the reason it has larger population availability on them, yet I see 2/3rds less people on caretaker then I had in the past. Vitrually no one making new alts, or even new players that are leveling through the lower levels.
Crimson and Northern daily zones are empty.
 
My server Caretaker, lists as Medium and many listed as Full just a month ago.
Sure many players are now in the Grouped content for adventures and dungeons and some raiding, but I can not think 2/3rds of that are doing that.
 
I will assume all the other servers are the same.
 
If carbine and NCSoft are happy with the number and the complaints then that is fine and I as I am sure others can deal with that and continue.
 
What I hear and see are upsetting to me, as a smaller guild that maybe can not raid on our own, but if the entire goal for us lesser guilds is to get Gold on Vet Dungeon runs that yield nothing in the way of gear progression because of the rng, then where's the fun in that?
 
Even doing WotW now is a challenge on some rng modes, fun, maybe, irritating, of course, but the end once gold is accomplished and recieveing not a single purple other then a Pattern is depressing.
 
Do not think this game is not for me, if it is then there is no mmo for me these days, and maybe that is at the heart of mmo's these days.
 
Guildies are now complaining that the World Boss attune process is a pain. Reseting bosses and the rng on the various types, spawn rates and getting there to kill them.
 
Believe me I like the process yet the process is flawed right not and frustrates myself and I guess others.
 
The fact that a couple guild have gotten onto raids affirms that it can be done without major issues, yet they did so when things were unbalanced and shortcuts were taken.
 
Now I see other shortcuts in videos that allow for easy Stormtalon attunement. Players will always find the easy way...Carbine could just allow it, or find a solution to players gaining other avenues to attunement?
 
Anyhow, finding a new guild...if it were your guild, would you just pack it up? Join another guild as a whole and crawl looking for the hand out, even though your's is an excellent guild at Vet Dungeon runs?
Just be absorbed and become one of the lesser's, only there to fill the need otf the guild you join?
 
I guess we will continue and pick up stragglers that have left or been kicked from their guilds and have not gone to larger Farm guilds where your in or out depending solely on you ability to produce dps as opposed to actually being a guild.
 
 
BTW are raids just a dash/dps race or are there actually tactics involved?
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Wildstar has one of the most comprehensive housing systems of any MMO on the market and this is right at launch.... It's got scaling content like shiphands and expeditions that you can solo with some skill, or run with a few friends, there's crafting, duels, completion (lore, path missions, quests, chellenges, etc), and plenty to do considering the game is so new. 
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Funny how housing is always the first line of defense. It's like people just assume that it even appeals to everyone...shiphands and expeditions are good once, and with the quests being a rote and mediocre experience why would one be interest in completing them all lol? 
 
The PVP is crap and the community is lukewarm at best, the pseudo elitism gets real old real quick.  
 
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Where did you get "wintrading" from:
 
 
 
Lol, I guess being decent guildmate and actually helping people learn the game is wintrading. You're dense. So much for a decent conversation/discussion.
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