Report 997

Report #997
Skillset: Moon Skill: Dark
 Org: Serenguard Status: Completed Dec 2012
Furies' Decision:
We don't want to make dark uncurable so will not remove the focus spirit cure.
We will, however, drop the cost to 3 power for the room version.
Problem: Dark is a skill that can be cast at a single target for 5 power or at
the room for 8 power and dependent on enemy lists. The current afflictions given
by either version are: confusion, dementia, paranoia, stupidity and amnesia. One
of the most powerful aspects of dark is its ability to strip nearly any non-
power defense invisibly while on the target. However, this effect is
overestimated in its usefulness as the caster cannot really capitalize on a
random missing defense of which there are many in the entire game. The targeted
version is cureable by focus spirit and if cast by a warrior is usually cured
away as soon as it is cast with impunity. The room version is hindered by the
effects of love potion or by switching rooms. When you compare the effects of
dark to other abilities such as timeechoes, reality, oracle and greywhispers, it
costs quite a lot more, is easily done away with and has less affliction
potential. All of dark's afflictions are covered by eating pennyroyal and most
by focusing mind. This report seeks to change the targeted version to be
something that both Moondancers and Serenguard will actually use for a reason
other than bored whimsy.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the
 targeted version to 3p, remove its ability to strip
 defenses, remove its focus spirit cure and include
 peace in the list of afflictions it can give out.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the
 targeted version to 3p, remove its ability to strip
 defenses, remove its focus spirit cure and speed up
 its tic rate about 25%.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Leave the room version of dark as it is. Reduce the
 targeted version to 3p, reduce the chance to strip
 defenses to a small chance (~5%) and remove the focus
 spirit cure. ///// Alternatively, as a solution 4, as
 per Enyalida's comments, solution 3 with removal of
 the def stripping completely.
Player Comments:
---[Celina on 12/3 @ 00:18 writes]:
Opposed. Trying to mimic oracle and greywhispers is just bad news for balance in
general, specifically the part where it's impossible to cure and a huge
nuisance. We need to be bringing these affliction bombs from Researchers and
Illuminati down, not raise other skills to compete with them. If you want to
work something out and keep the focus spirit cure, I'm game, otherwise it's a
big fat opposed.
---[Rivius on 12/3 @ 12:55 writes]:
Greywhispers is the only problematic one to deal with from that list as it can
pull from an array of any mental affliction in the game. Oracles' afflictions
are all covered by eating wormwood and TimeEchoes is completely covered by
eating pennyroyal except for when it tics with epilepsy. Systems have no issue
dealing with either of the two skills mentioned, and my suggestion here does not
even include any doses of timewarp or temporaryinsanity to hinder focus mind
curing. Your objections to me seem entirely unfounded. As far as the focus
spirit curing goes, I'm opposed to leaving that part of the skill in. If you're
going to make it cureable by focus spirit, we'll have to make it much stronger
than what I'm proposing here. Like I said, while focus spirit does help a wiccan
receive their mana kills, you can cure it before it even tics if given from a
warrior without any risk and have had them wasted a lot of power to do it (which
warriors need to get anywhere). It goes completely unused by Moondancers and
Serenguard and I just see absolutely no reason why it should remain the way it
is! If you want to suggest a different set of afflictions or additional effect
to make this worth using, please suggest them. But I prefer to move to something
short lived and incureable so Serenguard can take advantage of it too, while
reducing the power cost so its most palatable for both classes sharing the
skillset. You mention us having to move away from illuminati and researcher
'affliction bombs', however my suggestions are tamer and far more reasonable and
are meant to be added to a skillset with significantly less synergy and
offensive output than the ones you're comparing it to. Further, I don't see
these skillsets being brought down to the level of older, outdated ones like
moon anytime soon and it's unfair that older skillsets be left behind.
---[Rastor on 12/3 @ 23:03 writes]:
I can comment for the moondancers that Targeted Moondance Dark is considered a
weak attack of little use in higher level combat. I personally think the defence
stripping adds variety to its effects and occasionally catches people out - but
is very hard to work with. The power cost is high, especially for a Wiccan who
then needs power to be able to Toadcurse, the only really effective way that a
Moondancer can secure demise of their oponent. It might be sufficient to give it
a lower power cost, and make it incurable with a choice of afflictions that take
4 different remedies. Alternatively, reducing the power cost and adjusting
afflictions so that they interfere more effectively with curing , such as
paralysis taking focus balance, and anorexia.
---[Celina on 12/4 @ 01:43 writes]:
Oh gosh, text well. You went on about a lot of things, so I'll just reiterate my
core concern, I dislike the trend of making things incurable. I'm totally
supportive of cutting the power cost for targeted dark. 3 or 4 power would make
it strategically useful for moondancers. Beyond that, I think you're entering
into "want" territory, rather than reporting on what you "need." Unfortunately
you're in the awkward "we share skills with wiccans" boat. I think the focus
spirit is an important balancing factor for wiccan mana drain and afflition
potential, but also for the targets curing. It may suck for warriors, but alas,
such is the way of sharing skills with wiccans/guardians.
---[Enyalida on 12/4 @ 02:37 writes]:
I support solution 3, more or less. Remove the def stripping, the focus spirit
cure, and lower the power cost to 4p. It's slower than lawlgreywhispers
(clocking in at 10 seconds), and wiccans/warriors have less
AffPotential/CureHindering than Illuminati by a very long ways, so that's not
really an apt comparison. The focus spirit mana cost on me is only somewhat
lower than the mana drain attached to the instant effect of succumb, and only
somewhat lower than my mana sip amount (which has no bonuses), so I'm not seeing
a strategic use for the skill as it is now with even 3p. In the 8 seconds it'd
take to regen 1p to get back to 8 power I could have sipped mana twice (and
therefore have focus spirited twice with little to no mana loss) and dark still
would not have ticked even a single time.
---[Enyalida on 12/4 @ 02:38 writes]:
That's not even taking into account sparkleberry or healing scroll.
---[Lothringen on 12/4 @ 04:47 writes]:
I question whether this is necessary, as commune warriors don't particularly
need more afflicting potential in addition to their stat bonuses, in my
experience; however, I'm not vehemently opposed to solution 4.
---[Rivius on 12/4 @ 12:36 writes]:
I would say adding some sort of vague utility to a completely ununsed skill is
necessary, sure. Why have it otherwise? Keep in mind, commune warriors may have
stat bonuses, but they don't have the sort of useful offensive attacks from
their tertiaries to compare with chaos aura, greywhispers, badluck, crucify,
ectoplasm, deathmarks, judgement and the inquisition chain. With the exception
of waning which is fairly unwieldly anyway, Moon seems to restrict the warrrior
to knighthood entirely for offensive purposes. While it's true that the stat
bonuses do help, they're not nearly as impactful as people make them out to be,
especially to deny extra affliction potential in an endgame where warriors
always fall behind other classes. Also, be aware all of the solutions presented
are intended to cost 3p and any experienced warrior can tell you they won't be
able to afford putting this up for than once during a fight. It's short lived
enough as it is already as well. I also should state that it's very hard to deny
that moondancers don't have a lot of affliction potential on their own either,
so the shared skillset is not even close to a problem. One could even say that
they could use the minor boost this offers.
---[Thoros on 12/7 @ 17:24 writes]:
Solution 3 supported for 3p cost, remove focus spirit cure, and remove defense
stripping.
---[Shuyin on 12/10 @ 20:59 writes]:
I like solution 3, Thoros version
---[Ushaara on 12/12 @ 19:49 writes]:
The Enyalida/Thoros solution supported.
---[Aeden on 12/23 @ 18:27 writes]:
I can agree that a reduction in power cost is necessary, and I don't think the
spirit cure and defense stripping is necessary, but I will support solution 3