Report 1504

Report #1504
Skillset: Harmonics Skill: Malefactgem
 Org: Institute Status: Completed Jul 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 2.
Problem: Malefactgem currently has Impatience as an option, which has been
deprecated and must be replaced. Pre-Overhaul, the primary purpose of
Impatience, was a way to deal with targets that would focus timewarp under aeon
after being Shatterplexed, as an addition to or replacement for (taking
advantage of curing priorities) anorexia -> shatterplex -> timequake.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Replace Impatience with a new option of 'simulation'.
 Simulation looks exactly the same as a normal
 malefactgem, but afflicts with nothing, and has half
 the base balance cost.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Replace Impatience with a small amount of timewarp.
Player Comments:
---[Shedrin on 7/7 @ 15:45 writes]:
The intent of Solution 1 is that the simulation will fakeout the opponent when
they assume asthma, then you can take advantage of that to shatterplex ->
timequake. If they aren't fooled, or simply guess right, they cure out of aeon
in one action as there is no asthma stopping them. Solution 2 is similar, except
the added timewarp is intended to keep them at massive if they are fooled, where
if they aren't, they can smoke twice and escape. Also looking for ideas on a
third solution.
---[Lerad on 7/8 @ 01:34 writes]:
Solution one seems like a novel way of replicating the effect afforded in the
past without adding more afflicting power to the ability. Not sure how effective
it will be, but I like the concept and the motivation behind the solution. Both
solution 1 and 2 seem reasonable and have my support.
---[Raeri on 7/8 @ 09:56 writes]:
Support solution 1. This should also replicate any associated affmessages/gmcp
changes which may take place too.
---[Synkarin on 7/8 @ 12:27 writes]:
I'm not a fan of fake gmcp/affliction messages. The intent is to make entry into
combat easier, but introducing fake gmcp messages and affmessages is counter to
that. I'm not opposed to a 'fakeout' aff, but not at the cost of that.
---[Wobou on 7/9 @ 03:53 writes]:
Solution 1 is great and I am not opposed to 2 either. There are no GMCP messages
associated with malefact gem but I believe there is an aff message associated
with it "You have been afflicted by an unknown affliction." that would need to
be replicated for this to take effect properly.
---[Shedrin on 7/9 @ 15:19 writes]:
Wobou is correct on the 'unknown affliction' affmessage.
---[Shango on 7/11 @ 04:42 writes]:
Remove impatience. No replacement needed. The goal was to "protect" anorexia in
the aeon + anorexia combo. That combo is now aeon +asthma, which can be followed
with anorexia. Malefactgem can already give the first 2 links of the chain, as
it used to. I would just ask impatience be removed. There is already a skill to
cast timewarp, and simulation is just to game systems, not serve an offense.
Makes more sense to use another skill if the target already has asthma and such.
---[Shango on 7/11 @ 04:46 writes]:
And replacing it with Timewarp as a castable skill in solution 2 doesn't make
sense when they already have such a skill...unless it can be applied faster with
this balancewise. Downside to that is the current castable Timewarp skill would
be rendered less viable as a result. If a replacement for Impatience is needed
for solution one, a random mental affliction such as Stupidity would work
better.
---[Shedrin on 7/11 @ 05:42 writes]:
Apologies for the length. Some elaboration on the problem: As it stands, from
the point of initiation of the combo, there are three ways to escape the
timequake (ignoring for now pre-combo avoidance tactics). 1, cure out before the
timequake can be executed. If you assume the masked affliction from the
malefactgem is asthma (as it will be the majority of the time), then it takes
three actions to escape aeon, and cure timewarp in the process. Sip slush -> eat
dust -> smoke steam. Malefactgem -> shatterplex -> timequake takes 4s to
execute. 2, opt to shield instead of attempt to cure out, which will take one
action assuming you have balance. 3, opt to use green/gedulah to cure the aeon
in action at the cost of balance, power and consistency. Generally a last resort
method.
---[Shedrin on 7/11 @ 05:42 writes]:
Method 2 is countered through using paralysis over asthma. Method 3 there is no
specific counter, however the inconsistency and power cost are sufficient
downsides. Method 1 there is currently no existing counter, especially when
considering a variation where smoke steam timewarp focus is utilised. The
current solutions add a counter to this, introducing variable options for both
the target and the researcher. Impatience was utilised pre-Overhaul more often
in fashions similar to the current solutions than to protect anorexia.
Impatience also was utilised to synergise with ally abilities, notably
throatlock, which the current solutions do not.
---[Shedrin on 7/11 @ 05:43 writes]:
In regards to Solution 2, malefactgem is faster than timechant timewarp, and the
intent is to deliver less timewarp than a timechant, at a faster balance. The
longer balance of timechanting would be useless for any shatterplex -> timequake
setups. Unfortunately, I am ot able to give specific numbers on the amount of
timewarp due to the lack of player-available information here beyond the 4 vague
adjectives. As an aside, timechant timewarp is currently useless for any purpose
aside from testing.
---[Cyndarin on 7/12 @ 02:06 writes]:
I don't think anyone has discussed the implications of (really fast) trick
asthma on group combat. I understand the issue being raised (or as best I can
having never played researcher) in 1v1s, but it seems your solution could also
create scenarios in group fights where the target is just guessing whether or
not you gave the taret asthma or just faked it. In groups, this effectively just
tricks people into staying in aeon longer. I am strongly opposed to anything
that will create harder to cure aeon scenarios with the justification that aeon
is simply too strong to be given that degree of flexibility. Big fat opposed.
---[Cyndarin on 7/12 @ 02:10 writes]:
To be clear, trick asthma for a 1 (ish?) second eq is effectively asthma just
half the balance. I don't see how this does anything "tricky," there's no real
strategy here. You just fake aasthma, they try to cure it as they would if you
gave real asthma, only the researcher recovered in half the time and the target
is stuck in aeon without asthma in either scenario.
---[Cyndarin on 7/12 @ 02:14 writes]:
I shouldn't say "stuck in aeon." The target ends the scenario in aeon either
way, the only thing that changed is the researcher forced a cure attempt in both
scenarios and recoverd twice as fast in the fake one. The target can't wait to
watch how fast you regain balance to know how to cure correctly. Aeon prevents
any checks, like SMOKE WEED. It just makes no sense to go this route.
---[Shedrin on 7/12 @ 12:37 writes]:
I don't think that would end up being very significant, as unhindered malefact
asthma spam can already do that when factoring in the dust balance, and it would
be less impactful than the impatience it is replacing was in groups.
---[Cyndarin on 7/13 @ 02:21 writes]:
Sorry I disagree. This opens the door for things like aeonfield tic, fake
asthma, off dust balance for three seconds, and now it's so fast you can give
real asthma with just the slightest bit of ping lag while they try to cure aeon.
You're right, it's already too easy, and in that context this is just
nonsensical. We're just taking aeon problems, and adding fuel to the fire.
---[Shedrin on 7/13 @ 21:08 writes]:
Could you elaborate on what you mean on the three seconds off dust balance.
Malefact asthma can already be readily applied and reapplied, so in that
respect, this presents no new tactics. What is your opinion on Solution 2?
---[Wobou on 7/14 @ 01:50 writes]:
Does malefact gem have the same balance when targeted towards enemies as it does
towards one individual? I believe you can't target a specific effect when using
the ENEMIES syntax (or so says the wiki) so I'm failing to see how this will
impact groups.
---[Shedrin on 7/14 @ 12:01 writes]:
Malefact enemies is a 3s balance, and chooses a random affliction per enemy.
Individual malefact is 2s and you choose which affliction. I admittedly wasn't
thinking about the ENEMIES syntax. Due to the random-per-enemy nature, including
simulation should not decrease the balance of the ENEMIES syntax. Including
simulation would thus act as a 'spoiler' affliction for the ENEMIES syntax,
though that role is filled by clumsiness already. Or it can be excluded. Either
is fine, imo.
---[Cyndarin on 7/14 @ 23:15 writes]:
Sorry that was my bad, it's not three seconds. I was typing that too fast!
Locked out of dust for 1.5 seconds (or however long the balance is). You consume
the balance even if you cure nothing, so that length of time minus the aeon lag.
---[Cyndarin on 7/14 @ 23:16 writes]:
Solution 2 is fine by me. Sorry, should've said that.
---[Cyndarin on 7/14 @ 23:19 writes]:
I'd actually even be okay with changing solution 2 to give timewarp with every
malefact attack rather than it being an entirely seperate aff. Like how pyros
give a small dose of burns with pyre, etc.
---[Shedrin on 7/16 @ 14:19 writes]:
Adding timewarp to all Malefact attacks is interesting, though may introduce
more problems than it'd solve.
---[Synkarin on 7/17 @ 19:39 writes]:
I'm not really interested in adding more timewarp to malefact attacks - unless
shatterplex gets a cap on how much timewarp is can apply. Being able to build
timewarps while building aeonlocks may put the shatterplex/timequake combo into
incurable levels.