118780-suggestion-modifiable-assets

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"Not in the silly way it was handled in WoW not so long ago, of course, since you could modify hitboxes too. And that was just silly."
 
I was talking with my significant other the other day about how the only drawback for us is the oversexualissation of the characters in the game. You couldn't have a monstrous lady draken, like what you could with the spiffy charr in Guild Wars 2; nor could you have a robot without stilettos and boobs (you what, mate?). That's going to turn people off.
 
To get this out of the way: This isn't a thread about sweeping, permanent changes to the game, as the title hopefully suggests. It's about options.
 
Mods are good. People use mods for all sorts of different things. In Skyrim, there were mods to make the women ridiculously oversexualised, but there were also mods which did away with the sternum-crushing boobplates. And why can't we have modifiable assets in an MMO? Hitboxes. That's pretty much the reason, isn't it? It's all about the hitboxes.
 
In combat, you want to be able to understand the shape of the thing you're shooting at at a glance. How far it can move when it dodges, jumps, that sort of thing. This is why homogenised characters are so common in FPS games (other than Unreal Tournament and Quake, of course, but those were games from an era that was somewhat less restrictive and anally retentive). So how do we deal with that? How can we even approach this and make it work?
 
What if we had an 'Apppear As...' option? That's a start, right? So if another client didn't have the asset mod, they'd see what you were appearing as. Now, this system would basically define the general shape of the character and the hitbox. So if you wanted to make a monstrous draken woman, you could actually appear as a draken male to other players without the modded assets. This would lead to the segregation of groups of wants and don't-wants. So if you don't want monstrous draken women, or cassian women with sensible proportions, you don't need to have it.
 
However, if you do want that, then others can mod it in for you.
 
Let's move onto why I think this is even possible, yes?
 
They use a universal skeletal system for everything. It's contorted and animated differently, yes, but it's unviersal. This explains much -- such as why chua tails go into mounts when sitting on them, why draken claws disappear when wearing gloves, and more. Aside from the alteration of stance, the underlying skeleton is the same for everything. This is the same technology that Champions Online used to pull off a dizzying array of character types (and City of Heroes/Villains before it, for that matter). It's a common technology, these days.
 
So, you stretch out the skeleton, give it the right animations, and you're done. The clothing and armour just stretch to fit over it. This is how it works on the draken, the chua, the mechari, and the mordesh alike. See: Path costumes.
 
This would also put a lot more burden upon the community for maintenance. If your monstrous draken lady has clipping with new armour, it's up to the modder to tweak it so that it handles better. If the animation tweaks out, they hav to maintain it. Yes, it's going to be a conscious effort to handle this, but if we really care about reducing the not-so-hilarious oversexualisation in Wildstar, it's worth the effort.
 
Here's the facts of the matter: Equitarian noblemen and noblewomen alike -- we are not going to be able to turn the tide of those who want to overly sexualise their characters, or those who want to see overly sexualised characters. This game was aimed at them, so it would be disingenuous to think that we could, really, as it was sold to them on that basis. From what I've seen, I think Carbine isn't doing so hot right now, anyway, so they need to hang onto their subscribers.
 
But if it's all optional? There's no need to complain. Everyone gets what they want.
 
And it works well for Carbine, too. If someone who was previously put off Wildstar by a robot with meta melons and stilettos, they might take a look back if they saw screenshots of mechari women without those things -- more tastefully designed mechari women, to wit. Considering what I've seen modders do for Bethesda's games, I can't imagine that it would be too hard to use a mix of existing and new assets to create respectable versions of all the races. So the subscription numbers would be bolstered, because they'd feel they could support a game that offered respectable player character models, even if only tangentially so.
 
I think that would increase their subscriptions ten-thousandfold overnight.
 
I think that Carbine is now realising, post mega-servers, that perhaps their targeted audiences weren't entirely correct. This would be a good way to take a step towards bringing more people in. They could design a system where models and animations could be imported and linked to a hit box, with a set appearance for those who don't have the assets. And for those who're disappoointed at their aurins having flatter chests, now, you could now have blimp sized bossoms if you so desire.
 
Everyone wins.
 
And it's surprisingly not hard to do. Like I said, the technology's there. All they have to do is allow for the overriding of models and animations. The game is already this modifiable, I think that going that step further and allowing for modifiable player character models would be even better.
 
It's really a good thing for everyone. Diversity is. You need diversity. There are numbers in diversity. Without diversity, a game like Wildstar dies. But there's a certain unity in diversity -- in that I think we can all agree -- as innately greedy little humans -- that more options for me cannot possibly be a bad thing. Yes? No? What are your thoughts?
 
As a footnote, I will stress that this wouldn't really take time away from the content developers since no new assets would actually be being created. So the people making dungeons would go on making dungeons. The people making armour would go on making armour. This would fall to whomever they have in charge of their  UI modification API, I suspect (poor buggers). So despite this being an obvious boon, it wouldn't stop Carbine from releasing the next, huge content drop. The vast, vast majority of the work would be done by the community. All Carbine has to do is open it up for us, even if only in the most rough-around-the-edges way. We'll do the rest.
 
P.S.: This might need to be TL;DR'd for the less technically minded, if someone wants to do that.	
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It's not about hitboxes.  It's because it's a multi-player game that exists in a persistent world, even when you're not around.
 
A mod to your client would make the world appear different for you than it would to everyone else.  It's a matter of making sure everyone is looking at the same thing.  Universality and constancy.  You can't change how you perceive the world in real life any more than anybody else can.  That's what it's about.	
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Have to agree with Gungan. It's a neat idea, but MMOs are largely about experiencing a shared world together, the simulation of real civilization.
 
This idea could work in an MMO of course, but I feel the game would have to be tailored to the concept (through lore and gameplay).
 
Anyhoo, thanks for sharing, always cool to see gears turning on next-gen ideas.	
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I would fully support this. If there were a mod to change characters' appearance only to one player, without affecting models for everyone, I don't see how it would hurt anything. It doesn't affect the immersion of a "shared world" any more than one player using ultra high graphics while another uses ultra low graphics. Some MMOs have an option to hide hats, capes, or whatever parts of models just to the player choosing the option - this would be a similar feature.
 
I would feel a lot more comfortable recommending this game to my female friends, especially my wife, if the sexualization could be toned down. Saying it would increase subscribers "ten-thousandfold" is a bit optimistic though.	
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It's not about hitboxes.  It's because it's a multi-player game that exists in a persistent world, even when you're not around.
 
A mod to your client would make the world appear different for you than it would to everyone else.  It's a matter of making sure everyone is looking at the same thing.  Universality and constancy.  You can't change how you perceive the world in real life any more than anybody else can.  That's what it's about.
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I would fully support this. If there were a mod to change characters' appearance only to one player, without affecting models for everyone, I don't see how it would hurt anything. It doesn't affect the immersion of a "shared world" any more than one player using ultra high graphics while another uses ultra low graphics. Some MMOs have an option to hide hats, capes, or whatever parts of models just to the player choosing the option - this would be a similar feature.
 
I would feel a lot more comfortable recommending this game to my female friends, especially my wife, if the sexualization could be toned down. Saying it would increase subscribers "ten-thousandfold" is a bit optimistic though.
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			All the technical stuff aside and why this wouldn't work as covered by others, the only thing I have to say is that this game has the least amount of "over"sexualization of female characters I've played.  Sure, we have 3 body types(out of 9) that have bigger "assets" than the others(big chest, big booty, combined big chest/booty, while the rest are just skinnier than the one before it), but once we get in game we don't see it.  Unless you're running around hiding armor, or you get the cryo-sets.  This is the least sexualized player-character game I've played.  I've actually been wishing for more revealing armor.  If you don't want your toon sexualized, you have a *cupcake* ton of options in that respect, compared to those of us that like our toons to be a little sexy every now and then.  	
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Speaking from being there, the issue with certain other games having players modifying assets wasn't merely hitboxes.
 
Let's say, for example, that you were on a PvP server, and you were out to gank yourself some people. But finding them is a pain, isn't it? You've got to hunt all over the place to find them. Ah, but what if you could replace all the opposite faction models with giant pink Osun scaled up ten times? Man, it's a breeze finding everyone, and they're none the wiser, because it's all on your client!
 
That's how basic asset replacement actually ends up working in these games. As long as it can provide a gameplay advantage -- and it can, because by default, all characters are sourced from the same assets -- it can, in fact, be a bad thing. In single-player games, or games that are purely cooperative, it's not much of an issue; when you add PvP or some other form of competitiveness, however, asset replacement becomes a problem.
 
Replacing your individual, personal model while keeping every other character of that race using the default model would require a significant change behind the scenes regarding how character models work.
 
There are some wonderfully talented artists out there and I'm sure they could do some fun takes on our aesthetic, but it's best to be fair to everyone. :)
 
EDIT: Also, just to point out, we don't use a universal rig/skeleton for everything.
			
				
	Edited November 20, 2014 by Caydiem	
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Ah, but what if you could replace all the opposite faction models with giant pink Osun scaled up ten times?
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So are we officially ruling this out as a possible PvP mode?  :P
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