115322-a-message-to-the-quitters-and-the-cupcakes

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== Content ==
			
Thanks for unlocking this thread! I have new faith and vigor in the forum moderators!
 
If you are upset with something in this game and you have unsubbed to send the dev's a message you have to seriously consider it may actually be counter productive to unsub instead of flood the forums with suggestions... Especially if you really love this game and want to see it succeed in the MMO community. While I completely understand why you might do this with other games, I dont understand why you would with this game. The game is extremely new still and is going through some very obvious growing pains. This game has incredible potential... but not if you unsub and withdraw your support for the game financially. What you are actually doing is destroying the games potential. Honestly if this game dies I'm going to quit MMO's. I'm not going back to another MMO with tab targeting or lame combat mechanics. Especially when those Dev's dont even listen in other games...
 
Why not do it with this game? Because this game actually has Dev's that admit their mistakes and FIXES the mistakes! The Dev's even reach out to their community and communicate with us. So instead of withdrawing your support by unsubbing or starting a boycott, give the Dev's your feedback. Not only that encourage people to get on this forum. What good is it for the Dev's to listen if too few are actually voicing their opinions??? Right now I think its important for us to get people on these forums to be a part of the conversation. Give the Dev's something to listen to. They will see a pattern and from that they can move in the right direction -- the direction the players push them :D
 
Be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. I'm guilty of not being on these forums. This is like my 3rd post and I've been playing before launch...
 
And if there is a Dev listening right now I'd like to say thanks for reading my mind. I didnt know we had mind readers as Dev's in this game. Thanks for focusing on getting bugs squashed and quality issues instead of dumping a bunch of content out with lots of bugs. Its been my biggest gripe since launch and I watched the stream on twitch from earlier this week. I believe and expect this direction to drastically improve the game we all love!
 
I will be showing my support not only by trying to be more active on the forum but also in game, financially, and recruiting friends/family to play the game -- which helps support the Dev's ability to focus on quality and content. After all, if they are getting plenty of money in theory they should be able to hire more people to get more quality content out which is what the players want. Unsubbing, unsupporting them gets the opposite results -- slower content, less quality. Use the unsubbing as a last resort to get their attention please!
 
Looking forward to the focus on resolving bugs although I encounter few bugs they really stand out when I do... I'm looking forward to Drop 3 and Megaservers! Keep up the great work Carbine!	
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			This thread was originally locked immediately so I'm bumping it with some voluntary editorial work. I wasnt pressured to change anything by the moderators or anyone. I think its a good conversation the community should have so I made it a little more inviting :D	
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			I guess I only qualify as a filthy casual. I merely pay my subscription fee and am active in game. 	
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I can understand why this would be a controversial subject, cool to see it's been unlocked.
 
Sub if you have the money, if you believe in the game, or if you want the game to avoid F2P. That's what it seems like to me. And on that note, If you're using CREDD for your monthly and you want the game to remain sub-based, you're probably not helping yourself. :P
 
Although I wonder how that works...	
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I can understand why this would be a controversial subject, cool to see it's been unlocked.
 
Sub if you have the money, if you believe in the game, or if you want the game to avoid F2P. That's what it seems like to me. And on that note, If you're using CREDD for your monthly and you want the game to remain sub-based, you're probably not helping yourself. :P
 
Although I wonder how that works...
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Let's be real here, money is the only thing that REALLY matters. You really think if WS didn't lose all these subs, there would've been such drastic changes to the game? Nope. 
 
There are way too many examples of people complaining about a product, but not really do anything about it that would affect real change. Not giving a company your money is the best way to tell them you're dissatisfied and that will actually get something done.	
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			Your post inspired me to go cancel my sub! 	
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DID SOMEBODY SAY CUPCA-
 
*looks about*
 
Awww. There's no cupcakes in here.....
 
*slinks away sadly*	
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			I completely agree with this OP, but do also recognise losing money is a great incentive to fix the game and make changes.I will continue to sub until this game gives me a substantial reason not to. It is a good game, and much like the OP i dont think i can do MMO's anymore if this one dies to unsatisfied gamers.The DEV team alone is amazing, these guys really do listen and make changes, given 2 years of this, i cant even imagine how awsome this game will be. Frankly i see this game being one of the best player driven MMO's around. If it gets there...I worry about the transition to free to play, or worse, the cancellation. And really do hope people stay subbed to show support, if nothing else it will stop the need for a F2P transition which will sap time and resources from actual content leading to a net loss for the current player base. I feel like games like WOW have set the bar to high for any real competition to emerge, Wildstar has shipped with more features than any other mmo of its time, and has made more changes than any other mmo of its time since launch, thats a big deal but unfortunatley gamers are much more fickle these days.Lets hope the devs get the chance to change this game for the better and get some new players excited to play. 	
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"None of that is what really made me quit though. I quit because when I went to look at the forums all I saw was every single piece of criticism shot down by people who thought any change was a change to easy mode and that any implementation design by carbine was the true hardcore.  Wildstar attracted a very nasty group of wannabe elitists who did as much as the devs to prevent needed changes from taking place.  Too bad because the core combat was really quite fun."
 
 
this is an excerpt of a post i made months ago with suggestions and why i stopped making them, i lost the source now, but bottom line
having every suggestion i made being shot down or told to move on by a (i assume) fully grown man posting as a *cupcake*ing character from the game, and MY posts being down voted or moderated and his being upvoted/highlighted
 
i voted with my wallet
 
silly chua, humans voted with wallet, maybe chua shouldnt have taunted humans to vote with wallet	
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"None of that is what really made me quit though. I quit because when I went to look at the forums all I saw was every single piece of criticism shot down by people who thought any change was a change to easy mode and that any implementation design by carbine was the true hardcore.  Wildstar attracted a very nasty group of wannabe elitists who did as much as the devs to prevent needed changes from taking place.  Too bad because the core combat was really quite fun."
 
 
this is an excerpt of a post i made months ago with suggestions and why i stopped making them, i lost the source now, but bottom line
having every suggestion i made being shot down or told to move on by a (i assume) fully grown man posting as a *cupcake*ing character from the game, and MY posts being down voted or moderated and his being upvoted/highlighted
 
i voted with my wallet
 
silly chua, humans voted with wallet, maybe chua shouldnt have taunted humans to vote with wallet
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Chua honored being remembered.
Problem is that ideas being shot down is cause idea might work in short term, but in long term might be bad idea.
Chua seen many ideas posted on forums, and in the end is not about getting idea shot down or not, is whether Carbine accepts idea or not.
Example: Attunement changes. Many Humans against it, but Carbine did nonetheless.
In ideas etc some good, some bad. But in the end Carbine decide, not us.
 
 
 
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tell me how your "long term design decisions" work out in 6 months
 
 
for arguments sake i went through my post history and cross checked in game.
issues we disagreed about
 	) content accesibilty, dungeons still take  hours without voice com for level 20 players pugging their first dungeon
2) bugged quest tracker/datachron, yes it is still bugged for me,yes i remember your work around kind chua, doesnt help the fact its the first thing i notice when logging into the game
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tell me how your "long term design decisions" work out in 6 months
Every MMO I've ever played goes through this period. 
Phase 1 (-3 months - 0 months) - People hype the game during beta
Phase 2 (0 months - 1 month) - Thousands play at launch
Phase 3 (1 month - 4 months) - Bugs and stress-testing of all the systems in the game occurs, many design flaws are revealed
Phase 4 (2 months - 8 months) - People that never intended to stay in the long run leave, dropping the numbers to "doomsday levels"
Phase 5 (6 months - 1 year) - As designs get re-worked, people return and true MMOers start playing. 
 
 
for arguments sake i went through my post history and cross checked in game.
issues we disagreed about
 	) content accesibilty, dungeons still take  hours without voice com for level 20 players pugging their first dungeon
Your first time isn't supposed to be gold; learn the fights, learn the strat, learn the communication aspect. I've pugged plenty with just party chat available.
 
2) bugged quest tracker/datachron, yes it is still bugged for me,yes i remember your work around kind chua, doesnt help the fact its the first thing i notice when logging into the game
Most of the problems you experience with Carbine addons not working can be fixed with the repair utility, or reinstalling the game. 
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Let's be real here, money is the only thing that REALLY matters. You really think if WS didn't lose all these subs, there would've been such drastic changes to the game? Nope. 
 
There are way too many examples of people complaining about a product, but not really do anything about it that would affect real change. Not giving a company your money is the best way to tell them you're dissatisfied and that will actually get something done.
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Your post inspired me to go cancel my sub! 
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I remember this thread being locked and I agree (to a point) that we need more open discussion about what we think is bad and good about the game. Primarily in this vein conversations about improvements could be beneficial. However no matter how badly the Devs want to be proud of their work here. No matter how much they want to make it right, and what right is could take up weeks of conversation. They are paid employees. The owners will do what ever they feel is right to make money, period, nothing else. OK, they may not be completely heartless, but the bottom line is money. Profit or die is the way of the corporate world and the fastest way to get their attention is to take their profit away. The reason I agree with you at all is that if everyone leaves, the game will close. Also, to see improvement the Devs need to see what we see. They do not see this game from the eyes of the consumer, because they are not.
 
note: Why address any post to those who have left? You want a full room, not an empty one.	
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I do think that money talks. If you're not getting what you paid for then speaking with your wallet is definitely a viable option. But, like with many things, i think there's more to it.
 
There are many companies and developers who ONLY start to listen when their income shows something is wrong. There are also some who just take the money they got, don't think twice, and move on to the next thing, but that's another story. In other cases there are devs who have been given helpful feedback from an engaged community, who have had many chances, but still will not change their ways. That's another case where speaking with your wallet is a good idea for a wake up call.
 
Doing this doesn't exactly mean you're taking away all ability to address the problem. That depends. Some companies may be financially stable enough for a moderate or huge drop in income from a particular project. And in other cases not so much.
 
In this specific case, I do think it's in the best interest of those who really do believe in the game and the devs to stay subscribed, granted if the money isn't too much of a problem for them, and give the feedback, as you've said. Carbine is honestly one of the most down to earth and respectable dev teams I'm come across in my years of gaming and they deserve that. I don't think it's possible to expect it to be wise for everyone who purchased or likes the game on a base level to ride through this rough phase. Yet I do think it is in the best interest of those who felt that spark from the game and/or the devs to offer their support instead of turning their backs as they are just as critical to the game's growth as the devs are.
 
Basically, not everyone is obligated to see things through here. The combination of those with fleeting interest or upset with the current results pulling their funds with core fans staying and offering their support to get the game in a better place is probably a good thing.
 
That said, I actually just resubbed today.	
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It helps if there is enough people to buy CREDD. Supply and demand -- basic market principles. Buying CREDD is actually more expensive than a monthly subscription too so if someone gets their subscription through CREDD and in game currency they are technically indirectly paying 5 dollars more for their subscription per month via a CREDD purchaser through in game currency. People are paying a lot more in game money for CREDD lately too so you get a lot more for your money if you buy CREDD now.
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This thread was originally locked immediately so I'm bumping it with some voluntary editorial work. I wasnt pressured to change anything by the moderators or anyone. I think its a good conversation the community should have so I made it a little more inviting :D
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Think this is the first topic I've seen unlocked! Now that's progress!!!
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Can I ask what about it inspired you to do such a foolish thing? I support your free association but if you like this game and see its potential and what it could grow into with the proper funding, what would possibly inspire you to withdraw support via subscription?
 
If you simply dont like the game I wouldnt want you to play it anyway. Its a game. You should be having fun playing but if its just not your cup of tea then by all means go play a game you really enjoy. In my opinion this game is well on its way to dominating the entire MMO market as long as people back it via subscription and CREDD.
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			carbine isn't a charitywildstar is a paid service. If your not getting the service you want not paying for it is not only accepted it's expectedPeople quitting in massive numbers is exactly what got them off their ass to start trying to fix things to begin with.Is this some crazy new form of white knighting or something?telling people to throw money at something they don't like on the off chance it might transform like a butterfly?	
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I'm sorry OP but I have to ask,  have you only just joined us?
 
I ask because people have been posting suggestions and ideas for months only with alarming frequency to be shut down by the local so-hardcore white knight brigade screaming blue murder at anyone who might suggest that, possibly some things might not be as fun as they could be and might we possibly get a change to one of the many things now, ironically, accepted even by the developers as not a good change.  Such posts would result in a nigh public crucifixion of the poster - after all, how dare they water down this perfect hardcore dream with their dirty casual ideas.  "Go back to wow you filthy welfare epic scrounger! (and take your sub with you)" could have been this forums national anthem at one point.  
 
No, this forum has not historically been welcoming to diverging views and to suggest otherwise I think is a tad naive.  Even something as relatively benign as suggesting that maybe Dye customisation could be a little cheaper draw howls of outrage from the faithful, angered by the very assumption that, god forbid you might draw a little joy from your subscription without working your butt off for it.  If it has quietened at all on that front, I would put it down to some of these noisy individuals becoming quietly embarrassed about the state the game has gotten into.  They won't ofcourse accept that maybe the revolution failed - after all the revolution can not fail.  it can only be failed (witness another post on this forum laying the blame squarely on the fact that people weren't hardcore enough for the game).  They'll never admit the part they played in driving away individuals who came to think that yes, maybe they were in the wrong place and Wildstar thus was infact just a game for douchbag dudebros mind.  After all, - it's all the fault of those casuals for not being hardcore enough isn't it?
 
Isn't it?	
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I'm sorry OP but I have to ask,  have you only just joined us?
 
I ask because people have been posting suggestions and ideas for months only with alarming frequency to be shut down by the local so-hardcore white knight brigade screaming blue murder at anyone who might suggest that, possibly some things might not be as fun as they could be and might we possibly get a change to one of the many things now, ironically, accepted even by the developers as not a good change.  Such posts would result in a nigh public crucifixion of the poster - after all, how dare they water down this perfect hardcore dream with their dirty casual ideas.  "Go back to wow you filthy welfare epic scrounger! (and take your sub with you)" could have been this forums national anthem at one point.  
 
No, this forum has not historically been welcoming to diverging views and to suggest otherwise I think is a tad naive.  Even something as relatively benign as suggesting that maybe Dye customisation could be a little cheaper draw howls of outrage from the faithful, angered by the very assumption that, god forbid you might draw a little joy from your subscription without working your butt off for it.  If it has quietened at all on that front, I would put it down to some of these noisy individuals becoming quietly embarrassed about the state the game has gotten into.  They won't ofcourse accept that maybe the revolution failed - after all the revolution can not fail.  it can only be failed (witness another post on this forum laying the blame squarely on the fact that people weren't hardcore enough for the game).  They'll never admit the part they played in driving away individuals who came to think that yes, maybe they were in the wrong place and Wildstar thus was infact just a game for douchbag dudebros mind.  After all, - it's all the fault of those casuals for not being hardcore enough isn't it?
 
Isn't it?
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Suggestions DID draw massive ire on these forums during Beta. Suggestions such as different difficulty levels for raids and the suggestion that 40man raiding was a waste of development resources were absolutely vilified as blasphemy against the nostalgia of the hardcore MMO hipsters who raided before it was cool.
 
Sample Topic
A: "I remember my first 40man raid, I had to grind 15 months of attunement, I never got to actually raid more than once because we couldn't get a team and the raid took 10 hours to complete...BUT I LOVED IT".
B: "The average MMO player is 30 years old with a job, they don't have time to grind that much - however much they want to relive their glory days"
ACDEFG: "OMG welfare epics! You ruined <insert game> with your casualness!"
B: "Just warning you, roster boss is the hardest boss to defeat."
ACDEFG: "Lies! My guild has 200 hardcores waiting to play right now. 40man is what we live for, even if we never make it inside, simply the IDEA that 40mans exist will sustain us!"	
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I respectfully disagree. If the thread were one that were critical of Carbine and it were unlocked, THAT would be progress--because it would be a sign that they're interested in hearing something even if it's not what they want to hear.
 
Them unlocking a thread that adds yet another voice to the cry of "the REAL problem is the players" is not a good sign for anybody who's interested in seeing this game stay in business.
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Suggestions DID draw massive ire on these forums during Beta. Suggestions such as different difficulty levels for raids and the suggestion that 40man raiding was a waste of development resources were absolutely vilified as blasphemy against the nostalgia of the hardcore MMO hipsters who raided before it was cool.
 
Sample Topic
A: "I remember my first 40man raid, I had to grind 15 months of attunement, I never got to actually raid more than once because we couldn't get a team and the raid took 10 hours to complete...BUT I LOVED IT".
B: "The average MMO player is 30 years old with a job, they don't have time to grind that much - however much they want to relive their glory days"
ACDEFG: "OMG welfare epics! You ruined <insert game> with your casualness!"
B: "Just warning you, roster boss is the hardest boss to defeat."
ACDEFG: "Lies! My guild has 200 hardcores waiting to play right now. 40man is what we live for, even if we never make it inside, simply the IDEA that 40mans exist will sustain us!"
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2. Integrated voice communication into the game. Worst case scenario, do what Smite does and integrate Curse client. 
 
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carbine isn't a charity
wildstar is a paid service. If your not getting the service you want not paying for it is not only accepted it's expected
 
People quitting in massive numbers is exactly what got them off their ass to start trying to fix things to begin with.
 
Is this some crazy new form of white knighting or something?
telling people to throw money at something they don't like on the off chance it might transform like a butterfly?
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I'm sorry OP but I have to ask,  have you only just joined us?
 
I ask because people have been posting suggestions and ideas for months only with alarming frequency to be shut down by the local so-hardcore white knight brigade screaming blue murder at anyone who might suggest that, possibly some things might not be as fun as they could be and might we possibly get a change to one of the many things now, ironically, accepted even by the developers as not a good change.  Such posts would result in a nigh public crucifixion of the poster - after all, how dare they water down this perfect hardcore dream with their dirty casual ideas.  "Go back to wow you filthy welfare epic scrounger! (and take your sub with you)" could have been this forums national anthem at one point.  
 
No, this forum has not historically been welcoming to diverging views and to suggest otherwise I think is a tad naive.  Even something as relatively benign as suggesting that maybe Dye customisation could be a little cheaper draw howls of outrage from the faithful, angered by the very assumption that, god forbid you might draw a little joy from your subscription without working your butt off for it.  If it has quietened at all on that front, I would put it down to some of these noisy individuals becoming quietly embarrassed about the state the game has gotten into.  They won't ofcourse accept that maybe the revolution failed - after all the revolution can not fail.  it can only be failed (witness another post on this forum laying the blame squarely on the fact that people weren't hardcore enough for the game).  They'll never admit the part they played in driving away individuals who came to think that yes, maybe they were in the wrong place and Wildstar thus was infact just a game for douchbag dudebros mind.  After all, - it's all the fault of those casuals for not being hardcore enough isn't it?
 
Isn't it?
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Suggestions don't draw ire on these forums.  Doomsaying and raging do, though.  People don't often realize that, sometimes, their points can be very valid, they just drown the points in grating white noise
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You've made it pretty clear your posts are based around twisting the truth to fit your agenda.
 
Every suggestion got incredible hate. The various posts saying dye costs should be toned down showing screen shots of 100+ plat usually including something along the line of "love the game but this is ridiculous" would get met by multiple pages of name calling and being told to go back to WoW
 
I was the one that made the post saying since you always said elder gems are a back up how about adding one time purchases of points from daily reps since they are a ton of work to max and at least it would be a guaranteed few. Just a suggestion and it got met by pages of name calling and being told to go back to WoW
Look how that ended up
 
That is exactly what this forum was at the very height of this games popularity and during the decline. Just tons of people that basically loved the game but found something off then came to the forum with a suggestion, nothing but good intentions in their hearts, just to be met by vicious trolls that just howling at them to leave the game forever
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Suggestions don't draw ire on these forums.  
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If you are upset with something in this game and you have unsubbed to send the dev's a message you have to seriously consider it may actually be counter productive to unsub instead of flood the forums with suggestions... Especially if you really love this game and want to see it succeed in the MMO community. While I completely understand why you might do this with other games, I dont understand why you would with this game. The game is extremely new still and is going through some very obvious growing pains. This game has incredible potential... but not if you unsub and withdraw your support for the game financially. What you are actually doing is destroying the games potential. Honestly if this game dies I'm going to quit MMO's. I'm not going back to another MMO with tab targeting or lame combat mechanics. Especially when those Dev's dont even listen in other games...
 
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Yes its another voice that I feel needs to be louder on the forum so I made my voice clear. I had to appeal for the thread to be unlocked. I honestly think the key is this: Posts need to be constructive so we can get things done. I actually have been called a conspiracy theorist many times. And I really dont think Carbine has a big conspiracy to control what voices get heard. There is  plenty of negative feedback on these forums and a lot of them arent even constructive. The key is to make sure they are not inflammatory.
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 Thank you for giving me a good laugh today, Vic.
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Only thing I really have to input,
 
I'm getting really disheartended and discouraged to keep playing this game, as it appears I have reached a sort of brick wall, on multiple platforms.
 
First character - ENG - Only missing AMP/Ability Points from R-12 / Scorchwing faction.  However, have absolutely no interest to play this class, as rolling/dodging around all the time was not a fun way to play the game for me.  Absolutely and thoroughly did not enjoy doing it from day 1, stuck it out for 30 days, and gave up.  In terms of progression, the only thing outside of raids is what is mentioned.  But as I have no intention to use this character in any capacity, there is no need/want to play him.
 
Second character - SLINGER - MAX AMP/Ability Points.  Absolutely no loot to obtain (either spec) outside of raids that would be an upgrade.  Used strictly for raids, but did not anticipate that the ONLY class who's playerbase has not substantially dropped is that of the slingers.  This has resulted in 9-12 DPS slingers, and 3-4 Healslingers being available for every raid.  Being the most experienced, I obviously sit since 20 mans are painful to re-teach everyone every week.  I have no use, or anything to do on this character.
 
Third character - ESPER - The only character remaining in which I can do things.  However, after spending 20+ hours in a PvP queue over two days, without a single pop, it has got me discouraged to continue to get these points.  Dungeons have no use to me, as the loot is terrible and downgrades to the crafted gear.   The dailies are the only thing to run at the moment. 
 
Pretty much, the only thing that there is to do in this game at this point is to raid, and do dailies.
 
This is not very fun. 
 
Heres to hope guys!	
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Well, for example, this thread is a monstrous post about suggestions to fix gearing, attunement, game currencies, and decreasing raid sizes.  That certainly didn't meet with ire.
 
It's all about presentation.  I could have said the same things a different way and drawn hate. I got very little hate in the responses, even if people didn't agree with me.  People just sort of forget how to talk on the Internet for whatever reason.  You can make something that was, at times, literally said by other people in a completely different way that drew a different reaction, seem exceptionally reasonable.
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I agree with you that criticisms need to be constructive in order to be useful.
 
Explain, please, why you feel that calling people who have left the game "quitters and cupcakes" is constructive? Do you think it will make them more likely to come back? Do you think it will dissuade anyone else who is thinking about leaving from doing so?
 
The reality is that people do not OWE this game their support. This game EARNS their support by being fun.
 
If there aren't enough people playing the game for your liking, maybe you ought to focus your constructive criticism on how the game might be changed to make it more fun for the people who don't find it fun. Because the people who aren't finding the game fun are unlikely to view it as more fun because of your criticism, no matter how constructive you try to make it. 
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Only thing I really have to input,
 
I'm getting really disheartended and discouraged to keep playing this game, as it appears I have reached a sort of brick wall, on multiple platforms.
 
First character - ENG - Only missing AMP/Ability Points from R-12 / Scorchwing faction.  However, have absolutely no interest to play this class, as rolling/dodging around all the time was not a fun way to play the game for me.  Absolutely and thoroughly did not enjoy doing it from day 1, stuck it out for 30 days, and gave up.  In terms of progression, the only thing outside of raids is what is mentioned.  But as I have no intention to use this character in any capacity, there is no need/want to play him.
 
Second character - SLINGER - MAX AMP/Ability Points.  Absolutely no loot to obtain (either spec) outside of raids that would be an upgrade.  Used strictly for raids, but did not anticipate that the ONLY class who's playerbase has not substantially dropped is that of the slingers.  This has resulted in 9-12 DPS slingers, and 3-4 Healslingers being available for every raid.  Being the most experienced, I obviously sit since 20 mans are painful to re-teach everyone every week.  I have no use, or anything to do on this character.
 
Third character - ESPER - The only character remaining in which I can do things.  However, after spending 20+ hours in a PvP queue over two days, without a single pop, it has got me discouraged to continue to get these points.  Dungeons have no use to me, as the loot is terrible and downgrades to the crafted gear.   The dailies are the only thing to run at the moment. 
 
Pretty much, the only thing that there is to do in this game at this point is to raid, and do dailies.
 
This is not very fun. 
 
Heres to hope guys!
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Do you have a MMO mouse and keyboard? I love the mechanics of this game that takes into account movement, position, aiming, timing. I think its awesome. I love games that tax the hell out of me and are intense. Maybe the game just isnt your cup of tea. But if you play the game without an MMO mouse and keyboard you definitely should try it out. I cant imagine playing this game without my Razer Naga Epic and my Razer Anansi keyboard. Well maybe without the keyboard but I'd say the mouse is a must.
 
Hope to see you stick it out though or at least come back and check things out after Drop 3 if you do decide to quit.
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Do you have a MMO mouse and keyboard? I love the mechanics of this game that takes into account movement, position, aiming, timing. I think its awesome. I love games that tax the hell out of me and are intense. Maybe the game just isnt your cup of tea. But if you play the game without an MMO mouse and keyboard you definitely should try it out. I cant imagine playing this game without my Razer Naga Epic and my Razer Anansi keyboard. Well maybe without the keyboard but I'd say the mouse is a must.
 
Hope to see you stick it out though or at least come back and check things out after Drop 3 if you do decide to quit.
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{| class="blockquote"
Its directed toward people who have quit and might be a poor sport about things and rage quitting. Do we have an official definition of what "cupcake" means? I used it in the sense of someone that was upset so they quit. I dont think thats all that bad to call an apple an apple. They know who they are. If its not you then dont pretend I'm talking to you. They know who they are.
 
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
1) content accesibilty, dungeons still take  hours without voice com for level 20 players pugging their first dungeon
2) bugged quest tracker/datachron, yes it is still bugged for me,yes i remember your work around kind chua, doesnt help the fact its the first thing i notice when logging into the game
----
			
Unlocking this thread was a mistake, the title alone is inflammatory to anyone who dissents with the 'white knight crowd'. It seems to me there has been a rise of these types of threads after the 14+ page thread on cancelling Christmas showed just how angry many of us are with the state of the game.
 
I doubt a similar themed thread called "to all the losers and cupcakes still paying for this POS" would last on the forums. This thread is basically the other side of that coin. But Carbine's street cred(d) ;) is falling off the map every day the game lingers and promises go unfulfilled (such as the timeline Cougar gave on Megaservers, if they aren't here by this coming week they are already "late" on that timetable given by Cougar).	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Snip* suggestion that 40man raiding was a waste of development resources were absolutely vilified as blasphemy against the nostalgia of the hardcore MMO hipsters who raided before it was cool.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Really?  You're saying that calling certain players' preferred content a waste of development resources drew ire?!  NO WAY!  That has never happened before ever in the history of the world!
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It helps if there is enough people to buy CREDD. Supply and demand -- basic market principles. Buying CREDD is actually more expensive than a monthly subscription too so if someone gets their subscription through CREDD and in game currency they are technically indirectly paying 5 dollars more for their subscription per month via a CREDD purchaser through in game currency. People are paying a lot more in game money for CREDD lately too so you get a lot more for your money if you buy CREDD now.
----
			
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
So you're seriously trying to tell me that making the huge Datascape instance just for Engima and Voodoo was resources well spent?
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{| class="blockquote"
I stand corrected; if you couch a suggestion or a complaint into an 18,583 character posting that calls itself a "treatise" and spends several paragraphs appealing to people for calm and reasoned discussion, you don't generate much ire.
 
I must admit, Vic, I think you've focused on the trees and missed the forest. If that's how much time and effort you have to put into a constructive criticism or suggestion to not end up dogpiled with insults, then I think you made my point better than I ever could've.
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Hi :)
This is my first and I think my last post here. :)
 
I bought Wildstar and I like it but I find it so upsetting to follow quests and campaigns .....I spent almost 2hrs the first time I got to the land just to try to get out of there. I did not know where to come back, where I was suppose to go and most important where the NCP were for the reward?
Sure I got an harrow to point me but it disappeared as soon I tried to move!
 
Well the game looks awesome but for me to play it is a pain, I never had so many probs with a MMOs ...pity, but I will unsub. and find another game which would be a lesser hard to follow. I still have almost a month to play Wildstar but I don't think it will change my opinion, it does not appeals to me anymore. Games are supposed to be fun and relaxing. :(
 
Ciao all and have fun! :P	
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{| class="blockquote"
I bought Wildstar and I like it but I find it so upsetting to follow quests and campaigns .....I spent almost 2hrs the first time I got to the land just to try to get out of there. I did not know where to come back, where I was suppose to go and most important where the NCP were for the reward?
Sure I got an harrow to point me but it disappeared as soon I tried to move!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sorry, I don't understand what the problem is.  Every quest is numbered and shown on your map.  NPCs with your rewards will often call you on your datacron (Press C when you hear your cell phone ring), otherwise they will be numbered on your map like the quests.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So you're seriously trying to tell me that making the huge Datascape instance just for Engima and Voodoo was resources well spent?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So now wouldnt the logical next step be to resubscribe and support Carbine so we might get faster quality content and hire some new staff?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, it wasn't.  My guild is going there soon, and I know at least 1 other that is already there (and I really don't keep track of what other guilds are doing).
 
Was it the best idea to include it at launch?  Debatable.  I love large scale content like that though.
----
			
Players are the problem, there really isn't a game problem.
 
Players have been groomed to expect absolutely all rewards and content with absolutely no effort or dedication.
 
WildStar is an amazing game, with more depth and features than any recent MMO release, and honestly surpassing all of them except for WoW - only because WoW has a 10 year head-start on content. If players really consider themselves fans of the genre, they wouldn't be concerned over the little nit-picky bugs that may exist.
 
So ask yourself... are you actually a fan of these games in the first place? If you can say yes, then it's *easy* to see that WildStar is one of your very best options for fun.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Players are the problem, there really isn't a game problem.
 
----
			
Trying to work out what depths and features being referred to... other than housing and a different combat system what features are you talking about and against what games.
 
Are you referencing to the challenges which are maybe fun for 1 or 2 times, but unless you really want one of the rewards is totally no longer fun doing, the only thing is trying to beat completing the obstacle course with more than 35 seconds left in Ilium.
 
Are you referring to the dungeons that there is no real reason to run anymore other than for attunement because you can normally get better gear from crafting? The comm systems in other games gave people who raided and not-raided a reason to do this as they could by upgrades that they were either (a) unable to get from raids due to being unlucky or (b) unable to get because they simply did not raid.
 
Are you referring to the PVP system that is for all intents and purposes dead because most of the PVPers left over 60 days ago? Unknown queu times are HARDCORE cupcake.
 
Are you referring to adventures which for all intents and purposes are dungeons, hang on lets rebrand some of the dungeons in another game, problem solved.
 
Are you referring to shiphands? LOL don't make me laugh.
 
Really there are several other games out there than are less than 10 years old that have more content and features than Wildstar.
 
Crafting system, after the initial fun factor wore off - the more standard ones like armormech is ok, but some of the others like technologist are broken, not being able to craft the same item by using the same extra ingredients? Hardcore? More like annoying as @&*#.
 
Wildstar has good combat system, good housing system and good raids... what other imaginery features do you think there are that can really grab people's attention. It is the community of the non-raiding guilds keeping those guilds together and that has nothing to do with the game itself but the community of players.
 
Also do you think attitudes like yours are the type of attitudes that would bring new players into this game, which despite whatever you think is something the game desperately needs.
 
{| class="blockquote"
WildStar is an amazing game, with more depth and features than any recent MMO release, and honestly surpassing all of them except for WoW - only because WoW has a 10 year head-start on content. If players really consider themselves fans of the genre, they wouldn't be concerned over the little nit-picky bugs that may exist. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Players are the problem, there really isn't a game problem.
 
Players have been groomed to expect absolutely all rewards and content with absolutely no effort or dedication.
 
WildStar is an amazing game, with more depth and features than any recent MMO release, and honestly surpassing all of them except for WoW - only because WoW has a 10 year head-start on content. If players really consider themselves fans of the genre, they wouldn't be concerned over the little nit-picky bugs that may exist.
 
So ask yourself... are you actually a fan of these games in the first place? If you can say yes, then it's *easy* to see that WildStar is one of your very best options for fun.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Are you referring to the PVP system that is for all intents and purposes dead because most of the PVPers left over 60 days ago? Unknown queu times are HARDCORE cupcake.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Are you trying to do low level PVP?  I was getting 4 min PVP queues all night last night.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Explain to me a game where that doesn't happen?  During my last few months of WoW, all I ever logged in for was raids and dailies for rep.  That happened during every expansion.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pretty much every other MMO. GW2 doesn't even have raids and it has more active people than Wildstar, and it doesn't have a subscription.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pretty much every other MMO. GW2 doesn't even have raids and it has more active people than Wildstar, and it doesn't have a subscription.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can acknowledge GW2 because WvWvW goes on all the time and it's fun, but it's not every MMO.  SWTOR and FF14 were no different from Wildstar or WoW for me.  Once I did all of the content I was always left logging in only for raids or dailies. 
 
I think you have rose tinted glasses or something because this is a very common situation between content drops.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Trying to work out what depths and features being referred to... other than housing and a different combat system what features are you talking about and against what games.
 
Are you referencing to the challenges which are maybe fun for 1 or 2 times, but unless you really want one of the rewards is totally no longer fun doing, the only thing is trying to beat completing the obstacle course with more than 35 seconds left in Ilium.
 
Are you referring to the dungeons that there is no real reason to run anymore other than for attunement because you can normally get better gear from crafting? The comm systems in other games gave people who raided and not-raided a reason to do this as they could by upgrades that they were either (a) unable to get from raids due to being unlucky or ( B) unable to get because they simply did not raid.
 
Are you referring to the PVP system that is for all intents and purposes dead because most of the PVPers left over 60 days ago? Unknown queu times are HARDCORE cupcake.
 
Are you referring to adventures which for all intents and purposes are dungeons, hang on lets rebrand some of the dungeons in another game, problem solved.
 
Are you referring to shiphands? LOL don't make me laugh.
 
Really there are several other games out there than are less than 10 years old that have more content and features than Wildstar.
 
Crafting system, after the initial fun factor wore off - the more standard ones like armormech is ok, but some of the others like technologist are broken, not being able to craft the same item by using the same extra ingredients? Hardcore? More like annoying as @&*#.
 
Wildstar has good combat system, good housing system and good raids... what other imaginery features do you think there are that can really grab people's attention. It is the community of the non-raiding guilds keeping those guilds together and that has nothing to do with the game itself but the community of players.
 
Also do you think attitudes like yours are the type of attitudes that would bring new players into this game, which despite whatever you think is something the game desperately needs.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am not going to ask about your gaming experience but the gamer has changed since WoW was released and made things... easier and less complicated in an effort to keep up their subscription numbers. Player expectations and "me me me" mentality have changed gaming, and only someone truly delusional would refuse to understand or see that trend.
 
its been said many times, but if WoW was released today it wouldnt last 6 months.
 
sure, no players no games, but self centered jerks are not really players are they? just rude players with a shiney hangout for a few months before they leave to the next new shiney
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
WildStar is more feature complete than any other MMO at release, and in fact SINCE their release. The possible exception is WoW, but even that is debatable.
 
There are more features and more customization and more progression than every other MMO at launch and beyond. Period.
----
			
I would say RIFT had a better launch then WildStar.
 
As well, FFXIV 2.0.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh really. How many games have you played? Because now days most of the time there are two, three or more levels of raiding there is the easy mode (story mode SWTOR / lfr WOW... this is the level for the casuals who want to see experience content but may not have a lot of skill / time or bother), the regular mode (I guess HM in SWTOR and normal in WOW) kind of requires at least some skill and gearing up and time investment, and the hard mode stuff (Nightmare SWTOR, Hardmode WOW) doing this content prior to nerfs is challenging (well maybe not so much SWTOR as some of the WOW content).
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually nowadays most MMOs lauch without anything above 5 man content. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think you have rose tinted glasses or something because this is a very common situation between content drops.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I actually think it's you who has rose-tinted glasses towards Wildstar.
 
SWTOR actually made it worthwhile to level alts and had really fun PvP that people actually played. FF14 has more than enough content to do between the big patches that also deliver more content than Wildstar does. Most of that content is also worth repeating because the itemization isn't as terrible as it is here.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nothing is stopping you from levelling alts in Wildstar except some notion of yours.
----
			
Going to hit on a few points.  INCOMING WALL OF TEXTS.  I want to remind everyone that alot of these points are being addressed, and should be fixed, soon.  I am willing to stick it out and see what this game develops into, simply because the combat system and LAS switches/set ups have prevented me from being able to play other games of this genre.  No roll, no double jump?  Tab targetting?  NO THANK YOU.
 
This game does have a few features.  Are they truly innovative?  No.  Are they new?  No.  However, they do have some appeal to it, they just need to tie the knot and finish the ending on a few things to make it all fit.
 
 
Challenges:
 
Challenges are pretty fun/neat the first couple of times.  After this, the novelty quickly drops off, as there really is no apparent need / want to run the challenges.  They are set up to prevent you / side track what you actually came to do.  For example, you're running your Dailies in Crimson Badlands, and have to click 'T' to blow up a ship.  (I haven't read the quest log, sorry).  You have the option to continue about your ways and continue dailies, or you can stop what you're doing, rescue 6-18 floaters, and then continue. 
 
So, player is basically forced to decide to a) drop what they are doing, to complete a challenge or b) ignore the challenge, and continue what they are doing.
 
The novelty drops off really quickly, as the tangible rewards for challenges are pretty non-existant.  There is no chance at anything worthwhile (pardon the uber rare Shadow Blast Fragment) to make anyone considering dropping what they are doing to complete the challenge.
 
Future changes:  With AMP / Ability Points having a small but existant chance to drop from Scavenging Supplies Satchels, this will pull on the decision making chains, as these points are needed by the majority of the playerbase, or, if not needed, sell for quite a bit of plat.    However, this will reverse, once AMP / Ability Points are plentiful and the economical need dissapitates. 
 
 
Dungeons:
 
Dungeons are fun.  I am not going to lie, I quite enjoy dungeons.  I want to dig deeper into Adventures, and just grab a group and pick random paths.  No pre-discussions, just pick a path and roll with it.  Simply because they are fun.   However, with that being said, the genre of MMO generally means having fun while accomplishing a goal.  The problem with this dynamic, is that for dungeons and adventures, there is no tangible reward for doing so.  So, in essence, it is now "do a dungeon to have fun".  Which for a large player base, this equates to "do something else for fun".  No one wants to invest any significant portion of time, if there is no reward.    Crafted gear for the majority of players is better than dungeons, plus, with the a bility to re-roll the runes (recraft multiple times), you can pick and choose the end result, which is often quite a bit higher.
 
The exception, to dungeons, in terms of rewards, is the GOLD run.  The AMP / Ability Points are definately rewarding, however, as it requires significantly more coordination to do, there is not a possibility of pugging this.  You want people you can rely and trust, who don't wipe you constantly on Terrax (Convergance) due to lack of interupting.  
 
Changes:  Significant changes in runes and re-working dungeon loot.  Rune slots now will also be re-rollable, as well, crafting gear will have a lower rune cap than dungeons.  The big thing is the runes, and that people will have to farm dungeons to get a random drop, to even allow rune slots to re-roll.  This will breed people doing dungeons "for fun", as this resource will always be in high demand for hte majority of players.  There will be a small playerbas, who are in "BIS GEAR - PRE DATASCAPE" who will only need to reroll and add runeslots to their gear once, but will again need to do so once they get raid loots.  The rune changes alone should generate more people to play dungeons. 
 
As far as I know, the drops do not occur in Adventures.  However, I could be mistaken.
 
PVP:
 
PVP is dead.  I have no comments, but the system itself has sucked the PvPers away.  Bye bye PvP fanbase.  Such a dynamic combat system down the can for them.  They won't come back.   Barely anyone PvPs now, except for the AMP / Ability Point.  There is nothing fun or dynamic these.  I would encourage Wildstar to take a look at SWTOR, or to work in "classic" style of PVP.  Current implementation is so dry and dull.
 
Future changes:  Who knows.  PVP is dead.
 
Shiphands:
 
Currently soloable, have to sync down in order to walk in.  The loots are laughable, even at their current level.  There's really no reason to do these as far as I know.  Except for Farside, which you will have to do a couple dozen times, to get enough Hookfoot Meat to level up cooking (As its the only thing in the game that drops it).  
 
Future changes:  Veteran Shiphands.  Very little has been said about this, so there is potential.  I personally would think of it cool to scale based on the numbers, and if you have 20, you have this little epic miniboss.  Thats just me though.  I don't see anybody actively changing their mind or opinion on doing these, unless there is some intrinsicle value put in. 
 
Adventures:
 
This is a major thing that drew me into Wildstar.  The ability to have a dungeon, and have random events take place to change the run each and every time.  I thought this was such a great idea, as dungeon grinding would be fun as it wasnt the exact same thing everytime.   The actual application, however, how changed this.  The bosses (based on route) do not drop anything substantial, so it definately doesn't matter which path you take.  As the only substantial reward is the last boss, this has been streamlined to simply be "take the quickest path".  Which means this has been turned into something cool, possibly innovative, into a lesser-dungeon.  This suffers the same issues dungeons have, as the loot level means that you can just get crafted gear.
 
Future Changes:  Rune re-working and gear re-working, could potentially make these playable or desireable again.  Even something as simple as allowing the reagant to drop would make these playable.  Heck, throw in vanity items (Flairs, mounts, colors) that drop from specific bosses that force "off center" paths would do the trick.  Not sure if these are in the works.
 
 
 
Crafting:
 
There is no need / want to craft items.  The "harder" ones to learn (Epochos / Adventus) are downgrades to the Galactium equivalents.  There is no need / want to progress, as the items suck.  The "lesser" crafts can be rolled multiple times (I counted some 200+ for my legs) for very very little cost.  These are required to get into raiding, as the gear is better than adventures / dungeons, but once you have your armor, you never have to upgrade again.  Even when yo uget GA loots, you are most often banking them for the rune changes.
 
Future changes:
 
Less rune slots for crafting gear, bringing down their value.  Last I c hecked, they haven't announced any changes for adventus / epochos, but should highly consider making them you know, good?	
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{| class="blockquote"
ESO did not, not sure about FFXIV because I did not play it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your numbers are coming from where, exactly?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And Carbine is in the process of fixing itemization, all the dungeons are going to get new loot, so how long are you going whine about it?
----
			
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
So, player is basically forced to decide to a) drop what they are doing, to complete a challenge or B) ignore the challenge, and continue what they are doing.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Personally, I plan to whine about a lack of content and serious mistakes in design until they are actually fixed.
 
Not planned. Not in the pipe. Not on a "preliminary patch list". Not as part of a drop that has no actual release date target.
 
Live, and working.
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{| class="blockquote"
Just to be clear, you don't have to drop what you're doing.  You can start up a challenge manually whenever you want.  So if you want to finish the quest you're on now, finish it, then go to your challenge log and start up the challenge.
----
			
I assume this post is directed at me since I'm one of the people who quit, so I'll reply with my own perspective:
 
I quit not because of lack of content. I'm the kind of player who "stops and smells the roses". I took my sweet damn time leveling and probably was one of the last people to hit 50, and that's fine by me.
 
I didn't quit because of bugs, simply due to the fact that very few bugs really stopped me from playing, and the ones I did encounter, well, they were'nt such a big deal to me, in all honesty.
 
I didn't quit because things didn't get handed to me. I respect the players who have the skill, dedication and time to achieve the milestones that I can't or don't want to achieve.
 
The reason I quit is because of the Holier than Thou attitude from the Devs, thinking they could push their vision even when their vision might've been the right one 15 years ago, but not in today's gaming landscape. I'll admit forums rarely function as cordial, well-thought out places to run reasonable discourse, but still, myself and many others posted our dissatisfaction, sometimes calmly, sometimes passionately, and guess what? It rarely worked, or it would end up as motivation to just refix the fix with another fix.
 
This attitude would be (and still is) reflected in players like Lethality who are inexplicably blind to the game having any issues (how that is possible, it boggles my mind) and keep on maintaining that WE are the problem and not the several, documented issues the game as a product poses.
 
Truthfully, Carbine, like any other company focused on selling a product, will only respond "swiftly" (quotations intended) when their livelihood is threatened. I'm 100% sure the Developers are true gamers, dedicated to their craft, but, many times, financial decisions and turnover will poke a company enough to make them realize: No customers... no product.
 
In closing, I decided to break my forum silence because I am baffled at how Lethality can STILL maintain we are the problem. Let me ask you, of all the things you opposed to, and quite vehemently I might add (Attunement requirements, megaservers, stat balancing, etc), how many of those came to pass or are about to happen? Still think you got a firm pulse into the game?
 
I'm glad Devs are Listening, and even more glad that they chose not to pay attention to "players" who still insist on treating this game like their own personal hardcore oasis.
 
OP, I'm willing to give the game another chance, and I really hope the next patch can birng much needed stability to an otherwise great experience.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Alts are bad for an RPG that gives you more than you can even do on 1 character. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
From limited track record they put one band aid on one thing and open up two more wounds.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The fact that Wildstar is one of the most alt-unfriendly MMO's in existence, and the fact that levelling an alt will give you almost the exact same levelling experience. As opposed to SWTOR which has multiple unique stories for alts.
 
And why would anyone farm Elder Gems by running dungeons? That's slow as shit, and again, not rewarding at all compared to just farming WotW.
 
And yes they're improving itemization, which is good. At least if they actually do it properly, and knowing Carbine's track record I've got my doubts about that.
 
I still don't see a good reason to pay a sub though. Their whole "aggressive content approach" was, according to Carbine themselves, the big reason why a sub would be worth it. They've done away with that content approach, so I still don't see what the justification is for having the sub. It has absolutely no added value compared to other games. On the contrary, Carbine is giving us less content than pretty much every other MMO out there.
 
Now all you white knights will keep denying this, and that's fine, but again I ask all of you, please list me all this content then. Please, just give me a reason why I should stay subbed? What is the added value of the sub currently? I've asked this multiple times now, but have yet to see an answer.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Alts are bad for an RPG that gives you more than you can even do on 1 character. Perhaps, jsut perhaps, this is part of design?
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh Sweet Baby Jesus...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Alts are bad for an RPG that gives you more than you can even do on 1 character. Perhaps, jsut perhaps, this is part of design?
 
Stop pretending this is another game. It's WIldStar.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Alts are bad for an RPG that gives you more than you can even do on 1 character. Perhaps, jsut perhaps, this is part of design?
 
Stop pretending this is another game. It's WIldStar.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Truth strike a little too close to the heart?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Woah,
 
"more than you can even do on 1 character"???
 
Sorry, what game are you playing?  I'm playing Wildstar.  I am a Pirates Bane away from having 3 characters that have "done it all".  All of these guys will be at the point of "nothing to do but raid".
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Woah,
 
"more than you can even do on 1 character"???
 
Sorry, what game are you playing?  I'm playing Wildstar.  I am a Pirates Bane away from having 3 characters that have "done it all".  All of these guys will be at the point of "nothing to do but raid".
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Was never an issue of performance.  This game isn't too taxing, you can actually sit back for the majority of it, even the slinger rotation which many of said is intense, is pretty easy to me. 
 
The issue is that I derive my enjoyment in a game, with the feeling of being productive.  If I am not progressing, or advancing my toon(s), I do not feel as though I have accomplished anything.  The lack of end game (other than raiding) has left me at a point in which there really is no reason to play the game, as there is nothing else I can get by playing outside of raid hours.   Even creating the second ALT (Esper) and working on getting him geared has left me with very limited options. 
 
The biggest issue is that dungeon play is pretty much eliminated, as there actually is no need to do any other than golds.  Doing golds requires guildies, as pugs cant even get silvers, yet alone golds. 
 
So the scope ends up being --> Raid (during raid time) --> GOLDS (when enough members are one) --> Dailies (Hour of work). 
 
I would like to say, or preach as I have done many times that there is the "joy of playing the game", but as PVP queues do not pop, dungeon queues do not pop, there is pretty much nothign to do besides the Thayd 500.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then.... you've not done it all, have you? Completed all challenges? (gold level)? Maxed out chosen professions? Cpmpleted all datacube, TALES and lore collectibles? Without looking them up? Done with achievements? I could go on. You are one impressive player.
 
Oh yea, completing the raids count as "things to do".
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Have you leveled cooking to at least 3 to gain the gathering yield increase?  :D  (hint:  its works for all gathering)
 
I for one believe Wildstar can and should be the best MMO every made available to us consumers.  The combat is unparalleled and has completely ruined me for any other MMO out there.  Yes there are issues, yes there are bugs, but they're working on them!  Continue to sub, continue to post, complain, or help out there.  JUST DON'T GIVE UP!
 
Wildstar stands completely on its own in the MMO genre due to its level of potential.  Let keep it alive.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You pretty much just displayed a lot of whats wrong with the games remaining community, prob without even knowing it. Ignore listed very clearly his reasons for getting tired of the game, and all have to do with the lack of endgame activites/progressions available to him....and you turn around and imply that "perhaps games that tax players arn't his cup of tea", and dedicate your entire post to implying that his issue is that hes not physically playing the game with the optimal mouse and keyboard... Blame the player, not the game, right? :/
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I assume this post is directed at me since I'm one of the people who quit, so I'll reply with my own perspective:
 
I quit not because of lack of content. I'm the kind of player who "stops and smells the roses". I took my sweet damn time leveling and probably was one of the last people to hit 50, and that's fine by me.
 
I didn't quit because of bugs, simply due to the fact that very few bugs really stopped me from playing, and the ones I did encounter, well, they were'nt such a big deal to me, in all honesty.
 
I didn't quit because things didn't get handed to me. I respect the players who have the skill, dedication and time to achieve the milestones that I can't or don't want to achieve.
 
The reason I quit is because of the Holier than Thou attitude from the Devs, thinking they could push their vision even when their vision might've been the right one 15 years ago, but not in today's gaming landscape. I'll admit forums rarely function as cordial, well-thought out places to run reasonable discourse, but still, myself and many others posted our dissatisfaction, sometimes calmly, sometimes passionately, and guess what? It rarely worked, or it would end up as motivation to just refix the fix with another fix.
 
This attitude would be (and still is) reflected in players like Lethality who are inexplicably blind to the game having any issues (how that is possible, it boggles my mind) and keep on maintaining that WE are the problem and not the several, documented issues the game as a product poses.
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I still play the game. I'm well aware you're not talking to me, but rather to someone else--like those friends of mine who have quit the game, who I'd like to see come back.
 
I think your post that calls them names in the TITLE OF THE THREAD will not encourage them to do so. In fact, I think it will reinforce the same complaints they had about a toxic playerbase that were part of the reason they left.
 
And I'm pretty sure that they'd be just as unamused by your cutesy word games about "what does 'cupcake' really mean, anyway?" as I am. 
 
The more you talk, the more convinced I am that my original evaluation of this thread was completely correct--and that the decision to unlock it was not at all something to celebrate.
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