117735-w-currently-best-option-in-the-genre

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After months of QQ, soul searching, MMO shopping and comparisons in my opinion, Wildstar seems to be the best option on the market currently.
 
Lets start with some of the compitition:
 
Archage is seemingly self destructing, wether they mean it as a cash grab or not its very clear many fans are unhappy with the shift to pay to win, of course this may have been inevitable as it is a free to play based game.
 
SwTor: Good game, but suffers the same free to play gating that affects all games with the payment model. Also, and maybe this is just personal, the graphics dont appear to be holding up to well, i mean the character models alone look dated after seeing wildstar and even WoWs new models.
 
FFAAR: Very good game, or so i hear, however the eastern artstyle isnt for everyone, although it has a major presence in the west, i cant really speak for this one as im a fan of more western art style games, so i wont go into detail as i dont hav the information too.
 
GW2: Lacking significant PVE.
 
And finally, the big bad wolf, World of Warcraft. I really have nothing bad to say about this game, however, i also have not much good to say about it. Dont get me wrong , its WoW, but thats just it. Its Wow. !0 years of wow, again this is a personal take and a personal post, but for me there is no hype. I used to spend blizzcons with my guild excited for news, new expansion prep took months. There is no hype train, the whole thing is neither YAY or NAY. its just meh. meh meh meh.
 
And now wildstar. Some of my complaints in the past? Bugs, we all know about the fixes coming. Not enough content for casuals/soloers/chill out players. Well looky here, a jump in mission/dungeon in omnicore, a group WORLD event, requiring no attunement, and the promise of much more in that vein to come.
PVE-I did it, i joined a guild and did some group content, not raiding mind you, but organized group content. With the forgiving attitude of the guild, it brought back that feeling of BC wow dungeons. The pick yourself u p and try again, oh well we got one of them down it should be easier this pull feeling.
Raid, cant speak for this, but apparently its epic. very epic. *cupcaking* epic.
Lore/Story. I mean come on, paralels of the battle of light and dark with drusera and entity, a beautiful world littered with lore tidbits in books and voiced data cubes. And according to some posts by the devs, current and future design hopes to have most of this story content available outside of raids.
Ambience, the music, the MUSIC man. The art style, while a put off for some is glorious in my eyes. the entire intelectual property of the wildstar universe just pulls me in, and is probably why i kept coming back and stomping my feet and crying instead of just moving on, its ENGAGING.
 
Well there you have it, it took me 4 months, but with a good guild (who i wont mention because i dont want them getting hate from the people who i know dislike me here)  and an open mind, one of the biggest whiner/critics/QQers/ragers of the forums has to say, at this point in time
 
Wildstar is the best option on the market for many players who have filled their quota of orc killing, and want a fresh start on a fresh planet full of oppertunity and promise.
 
See you on Nexus folks.	
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			Disagree. WoW still has pride of primacy. WS may be up and coming but, right now they are going the route of SWTOR. Time will tell. I would like to see WS unseat WoW. ;)	
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			Thats like, your opinion man!	
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Wait you're telling me ArchAge was overhyped and people left wildstar are now disappointed in Archage? I could have told them that! :P
 
Anyways, I think Wildstar is great. I'm addicted and love it and never have a dull moment :) I hope it keeps up!	
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Disagree. WoW still has pride of primacy. WS may be up and coming but, right now they are going the route of SWTOR. Time will tell. I would like to see WS unseat WoW. ;)
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I agree with the OP. WoW has definitely lost its sparkle for me, it's polished and incredibly full of content, but really, it hasn't changed much. If anything, the game is has a flatter feel for me, with less to pick between the classses. It also feels slow compared to WS.
 
WS is the first game in years that has actually changed the *way* I play the game. My keyboard/mouse setup has had to change to accomodate the demanding nature of dungeon and raid encounters. You have to be able to move and fire. Accurately. (Move accurately *and* fire accurately).
 
I love the challenge of the game. That sometimes you have to give up on a PUG because it doesn't have what it takes to complete the dungeon in the time you had makes the runs that suceed all the sweeter.
 
I don't see anything out there that has the draw WS does for me. Long may it continue.	
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I only played WoW for ~5mo, so I'm not going to pretend to be any sort of authority on it. But I will say the movement in WS (important distinction from combat) is the best I've ever seen. Double jump, sprint, dashing, environment that you can climb on (no invisible walls yay). And I'd say that's why I still play (well that and amazing guildies that I love to death).
 
But the combat itself is pretty simplistic and nothing special. Every class feels like spam spam spam utility spam spam spam. Dungeons are just a gear/int check, a decent group and you don't need a healer for most fights. Adventures are pure snoozefests that take too long (malgrave, you boring, boring POS), with crappy loot 99% of the time, raiding (I'm only 4/6 so maybe it gets a lot harder, DS I assume is a major skill check) has been pretty easy. I did a bit of flex raiding in WoW before I left and it felt harder than what I've seen in WS (brewmaster monk was far more difficult than any WS spec/class, even in LFR). Drop that bomb on the edge? Dodge slow lasers/int? Heal bomb explosions? Etc etc, just basic "are you awake, can you  listen to the raid leader" checks.
 
 WS has a really amazing foundation, but also needs to break away from the concept of grinding and grinding and grinding for little reward (I get that many of you played X back in the day and had to spend months to get X, I really don't care, that's not the market today), and start giving middle ground and more bite sized content. There are really two crowds in WS, the hardcore "log in for raid night" raiders, and the RP/housing people. The middle crowd (largest crowd) has mostly left. Oh, and please make more varied builds/ability interactions.
 
Is WS the best choice on the market? No, not at all. There are only a very small number of people that will really like WS in it's current form. Anyways, the next few months are really important, hopefully CS doesn't blow it, I really do love the game.  :)	
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OP, I'm glad you're sticking with WildStar because it has a LOT of potential!! I think Drop 3 and 4 will be a turning point in the right direction for them. It'll probably never be as successful as WoW, and who cares! What matters the most is what YOU think about the game. Are you having fun in the game? 
 
Also, not to mention, the community in-game is just, fantastic. ThaydFest, World PvP events, all the amazing guilds and people out there... I rarely see trolls in /zone chat and it's really refreshing. Sure, there have been a lot of negativity on the forums, but look at other game websites.. Forums are pretty much filled with the same filth. People are more likely to voice anger and concerns rather than positive feedback. It's just the way it is.
 
 
 
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I did a bit of flex raiding in WoW before I left and it felt harder than what I've seen in WS
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This is so intentionally vague.
 
And I love this game. I've tried to go back to WoW and SWTOR, but it just wasn't the same. Wildstar has practically "ruined me" for all other MMO's. It'll take some serious reprogramming to get used to playing another game, because before you factor in anything else that differs from Wildstar, chances are the new MMO will stick with the same outdated/played out style of combat.
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I only played WoW for ~5mo, so I'm not going to pretend to be any sort of authority on it. But I will say the movement in WS (important distinction from combat) is the best I've ever seen. Double jump, sprint, dashing, environment that you can climb on (no invisible walls yay). And I'd say that's why I still play (well that and amazing guildies that I love to death).
 
But the combat itself is pretty simplistic and nothing special. Every class feels like spam spam spam utility spam spam spam. Dungeons are just a gear/int check, a decent group and you don't need a healer for most fights. Adventures are pure snoozefests that take too long (malgrave, you boring, boring POS), with crappy loot 99% of the time, raiding (I'm only 4/6 so maybe it gets a lot harder, DS I assume is a major skill check) has been pretty easy. I did a bit of flex raiding in WoW before I left and it felt harder than what I've seen in WS (brewmaster monk was far more difficult than any WS spec/class, even in LFR). Drop that bomb on the edge? Dodge slow lasers/int? Heal bomb explosions? Etc etc, just basic "are you awake, can you  listen to the raid leader" checks.
 
 WS has a really amazing foundation, but also needs to break away from the concept of grinding and grinding and grinding for little reward (I get that many of you played X back in the day and had to spend months to get X, I really don't care, that's not the market today), and start giving middle ground and more bite sized content. There are really two crowds in WS, the hardcore "log in for raid night" raiders, and the RP/housing people. The middle crowd (largest crowd) has mostly left. Oh, and please make more varied builds/ability interactions.
 
Is WS the best choice on the market? No, not at all. There are only a very small number of people that will really like WS in it's current form. Anyways, the next few months are really important, hopefully CS doesn't blow it, I really do love the game.  :)
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WoW still has a lot of potential for new players. Sadly, there aren't as many as there used to be.
For returning players, it's a bit disappointing because so much as changed. If changed was all it was, some people would still be happy, but they seem to have some new bullet points list that I don't entirely trust myself.
 
Have you seen this Blizzcon list "What is not fun -> Positionnal requirement (e.g. Feral Druid)" Then in the Q&A "Why does the rogue still have a positionnal requirement "Ah, well it's part of the Rogue Gameplay"WTF?!
 
Anyway, beside my personnal angst at the Feral druid Treatment the claim that situationnal spells weren't fun striked me as odd too.
 
Maybe it's me, I've never been a standard player but it feels like that making their game as simplistic as they can risk of having just that effect.A game for Simpletons...
 
With Wildstar, it's a completely different story from the start, I have no idea how it will age though. Let's hope slowly and well.I'm fairly confident that, in a side by side comparison - if people chose for the gameplay only, not the population, not the known story characters, not the Blizzard's tag, just the Game on it's own - Wildstar would have some millions of subscriptions.	
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Your combat critique just described every tab targeting MMO out there. Except that you don't even need to interrupt anywhere near as much. Maybe a rogue kick every now and then. Dungeons are hardly a gear check, as that's been WoW since Vanilla. Because in WS, gear stats aren't nearly as big a buffer for being bad as it is in WoW. That's not to say that they don't provide any benefit, btw. I'm just saying that stat weights don't make you feel nearly as godly as you do in WoW. Oh, and 4/6 GA is nothing, btw. As on my server, you see a bunch of guilds that have been stuck at the same 4/6 GA wall for months. It doesn't really increase in difficulty until Convergence and Ohmna, as those are more careful execution fights. And DS is a whole 'nother monster. As you really feel it when you lose 4 or 5 ppl out of 40.
 
And you confuse WoW Flex Raiding with being hard, due to it's simplistic mechanics and statue-like movement. As long as your statue is standing in the right spot, you'll live. Since there's no real dodging (minus particular classes having a gimmick skill on a long cooldown) it's even more of an "all or nothing" thing. That's not hard, that's just bad/out dated game mechanics. Speaking of bad, it's the same thing with the Monk class. Conflating another poorly designed "hero class" with being difficult, is kinda odd.
 
 
 
More like "Since Ice Crown Citadel and the last two expansions. WIth a biggest jump in raid ease being with the addition of LFR with the Deathwing raid in Cataclysm."
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This is exactly the conclusion I came to when I was looking for a new MMO to sink my teeth into after I finally gave up on GW2 (incredible game, but overflow servers, world boss zergs and lack of variety in pve combat mechanics - zerker or gtfo- finally tipped me over the edge). I had a go at the Landmark beta (which was great but still a very young game, and basically a prettier minecraft :P). After drooling over EQN (sigh... it's gonna be good... in five years time lol) and then had a go at f2p. Tried path of exile - gimmicky cash shop, and endless grind at "end game" (there is no end game... just a treadmill). Similar story with Neverwinter, though I had a great time and met some awesome people and joined a guild there. But I spend so much money in f2p games cos cash shops are my weakness -.-. Got bored, and other f2p games all look the same, same model, same combat, borrrrring... and cheap. Archeage just looks terrible.. I can't stand the graphics. F2P games are just soulless cash making gimicks with no investment in the long term. So I moved on pretty quick. 
 
Looked at Aion and Rift and Eve but I didn't like the art style and the cluttered UI, and the stories.  LoL has the most hideous community, so that was a no-go for me. ESO was a massive overhyped flop, and I avoided like the plague. As a fan of the books, LOTRO was out of the question lol :P and WoW is a great game, but I felt like I had done my time with it, and wanted to keep the memories I had of it untainted.....
 
 
I wanted something with decent combat over all else, it is hard to go back to traditional tab targeting after gw2 where mobility was such a big focus (although compared to W* it is positively sedentary xD). Then i remembered people had been pretty hyped for wildstar so I had a look, to see what happened to it. After trawling the videos on youtube, checking out the blogs and the housing sites (honestly it was the housing that suckered me in lol) I thought, what the heck, it's only like, £40/50 to try a month, so I gave it a go. 
 
Haven't looked back :) it's not perfect, but dat combat system + in game communities + RP communities + shiphand missions + the lore + chua/draken and I was a lost cause <3	
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You should look into FFXIV: ARR if you're settling on Wildstar.  The game has phenomenal PvE, interesting class systems (you can choose your class by swapping gear,) a heavy focus on crafting, housing plots, etc.  The art style is a little less cartoony than Wildstar, but great art.  The combat is a little bit slower and less reactionary, but is offset by the need to predict and understand your classes and the fights.  The difficulty is much higher than Wildstar (if you ask me), but the PvP can't really compare.
 
I quite liked the game and I'm a hardcore PvPer.  The developers and the management have a lot of many thanks to the success of the franchise (even after smashing the previous incarnation), and it really shows. Content comes out polished and on-time, and frequently.  They put a big emphasis on new players and the economy.  People have fun in that game in ways that I don't think I could ever have fun, haha.
 
Plus, its a FF game without random encounters! 	
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To be honest, if Rift was an action MMO (or even something even remotely similar) then I would still be playing it.   For me, the biggest downer for other MMOs was realising that I just like action combat more than the tradition 'click button while standing still/limited movement' mechanics that are prevalent in older MMOs. 
 
I fell out with WoW for non-gameplay reasons a long time ago, but even if that wasn't the case, the gameplay just does nothing for me any more.  Same for Rift, which is insanely pretty and into which I sank a hell of a lot of hours. :(  I miss that game, but I just can't re-engage with it no matter how hard I try.
 
 
But game mechanics aside, I have been searching for a good Sci-fi based game for a long time, that appealed to my sense of humour as well as being engaging story wise.  That's what really sells Wildstar to me, more than anything else- I love the story, and the flavour of it. :)	
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I really enjoy FFXIV:ARR But the story doesn't grab me. End game is limited to 8 people premades and it generates a dog-eat-dog endgame community.
 
The game is easy. Progression is repetitive and grindy. Vanity is the main draw. Face it the game's visuals are top notch. The customization options far outstretch Wildstar by leaps and bounds with the exception of housing. But if that's not your thing... eh...	
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I really enjoy FFXIV:ARR But the story doesn't grab me. End game is limited to 8 people premades and it generates a dog-eat-dog endgame community.
 
The game is easy. Progression is repetitive and grindy. Vanity is the main draw. Face it the game's visuals are top notch. The customization options far outstretch Wildstar by leaps and bounds with the exception of housing. But if that's not your thing... eh...
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I really enjoy FFXIV:ARR But the story doesn't grab me. End game is limited to 8 people premades and it generates a dog-eat-dog endgame community.
 
The game is easy. Progression is repetitive and grindy. Vanity is the main draw. Face it the game's visuals are top notch. The customization options far outstretch Wildstar by leaps and bounds with the exception of housing. But if that's not your thing... eh...
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Ah, I rarely ever care for lore and story myself. I don't really find the content - easy - per say. Its no easier or harder than datascape really, but I do think it is more involved.  There's more gear customization, and a lot more min-maxing. Rotations etc + more phases to deal with.
 
... and along with the 8 person content means more accountability for each player.  I don't necessary think that generates a dog-eat-dog community, so much as helps others find teams that complement their playstyle / time limits / constraints.  I definitely think that challenging 8 person content is far superior to challenging 40 man content. 
 
That's my personal opinion.  I'm not even attuned in Wildstar because I don't like how you have to schedule your whole week around the raids.
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How can you decide that something is no easier or harder than Datascape, but then admit that you're not even attuned in Wildstar. On what grounds can you come to such a conclusion? Youtube videos?
 
Yea, confirmed for troll.
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Ah, I rarely ever care for lore and story myself. I don't really find the content - easy - per say. Its no easier or harder than datascape really, but I do think it is more involved. There's more gear customization, and a lot more min-maxing. Rotations etc + more phases to deal with.
 
... and along with the 8 person content means more accountability for each player. I don't necessary think that generates a dog-eat-dog community, so much as helps others find teams that complement their playstyle / time limits / constraints. I definitely think that challenging 8 person content is far superior to challenging 40 man content. 
 
That's my personal opinion. I'm not even attuned in Wildstar because I don't like how you have to schedule your whole week around the raids.
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Probably because PvE as a whole, is easy and scripted.  It's not like I haven't cleared PvE content in just about every other game out there.  Comparatively speaking to just FFXIV, theyve had raids that have taken months and months and almost to the next content patch for the majority of people to clear.
 
In Wildstar, it seems that once guilds have spent a lot of time on bosses, they get them.  I'd imagine if things weren't so buggy / able to be cleared, people would have cleared datascape already as well.  I never underestimate the ability of a hardcore raiding guild, and often content is blocked by either gear, bugs, or overtuned difficulty.
 
Overall pve is pretty easy once you have the gear / the strat.  The hard part is figuring those things out.
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Well it's quite bold to state that Datascape is as hard as FFXIV raids when we're 5-6 months into the tier and we're still only 7/9 bosses, but I have even less to say on the topic as I've never played FFXIV before, but I have done Datascape with 7/9 under my belt and god bless the players of FFXIV if their raids are as hard as this. 
 
I played WoW for 7 years prior to Wildstar. I never had any interest in any other MMO at the time considering I'm the type of player that plays primarily because of raiding, so when I saw what Wildstar's raids had to offer, there was no way in hell I could refuse, but I never expected to fall in love with a game like I did. It might be the most overrated aspect at this point, but the combat is just so damn fluid and responsive (I don't mean deysnc/lag responsive) that it becomes a joy. The telegraph system communicates clearly between player and enemy so you have time to react to said telegraph. Also the fact every class is mobile is good. I don't care at this point what people say, but being immobile is absolutely 1 of the most boring things imaginable. I played my Lock for the entirety of WoTLK, Cata & MoP and that's when I first got a taste for the awesomeness of being mobile in MoP (although min/max didn't quite agree with my choice) but boy was that so much more fun than the previous 5 years of WoW.  
 
The lore is pretty good. I don't care that much for the strain and Entity, but once you delve more into stuff like Primal infusion, primevals, the Focus, Laveka etc. it becomes a lot more interesting.
 
I can see why the game got to the point where it is, but I'm not the type of person to be scared away by bugs and such. 	
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I'm playing it on the free weekend's I unlocked Satasha (hard) and we had trouble, not because it was difficult but because the WHM couldn't handle the damage. Frequently I found myself falling asleep at the wheel. People are running through instances with massive pulls and the WHMs are still DPSing all because of gear.
 
I found myself more challenged by STL than some turns of Coil.
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			Wildstar has far superior combat, but unfortunately it is inferior in every other facet. I will try and bounce between the two, chasing 20man content. I hope Wildstar delivers a lot more in the new year.	
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Final Coil was Conquered twice within the first week of the patch. Many other guilds are on their way. 
 
There is no attunement so anyone can just throw themselves at it.
 
I did Second Coil without my Guild. I got to Turn 9 in PuGs. =\
 
Titan Extreme was the only real Primal Challenge. Because of so many Insta death mechanics. Leviathan was the last Extreme I did. But I'll probably tackle Ramuh before the Weekend is out.
 
It's not my skill level, the content is just not hard to get.	
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And the majority of legit raiding guilds in Wildstar aren't even in DS, yet. Due to their own skill level.
 
Which makes me question whether or not you even know what you're talking about, since there are very little complaints about bugs (minus the random Phagemaw shield bug) in raids that actually stop people. It just seems that you're throwing out meme's like darts in hopes that they stick to something. Because, just like in your fail PvP related thread. You're pretty much off the mark, here. As Carbine has been pretty good, when it comes to raids. Flawless? No. But better than they've been in a few other aspects.
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Hmmm, I started life as a FPS player....yes I know.. Anyway, because of that I have been having much more fun in Wildstar that I have had in other MMOs as far as combat goes. As to other things, I am one who does not rush to end game. So, I am still having fun, taking my time, trying new things with different toons. In this game I believe I am smelling the roses even more because of those who rushed to end game first. They all started complaining right away that there was little to do. Or, that it took forever to get to the fun stuff. Either way I figured that I would have some fun leveling while the Devs sorted things out. Meanwhile my subs to two other games expired because they felt somehow hollow and the community keeps comparing apples to oranges......
 
For me the OP has it right.
 
currently....lol	
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Haha don't be a hater.  You can't just make sweeping generalizations to put down my sweeping generalizations.  I very well could be wrong about Datascape and it could be the hardest PvE in any game so far.  I really love challenging PvE but after watching the videos of boss kills etc I'm still not really drawn in.  I think that's more of a game issue than mine though really. I'd want to play it if it looked very challenging.
 
I don't really know why you're targetting me as I'm not really trying to have a heated discussion about wildstar raids in this thread, but I have like 500 pvp threads, some of them are bound to be fail. =D
 
I watch them though, the raids on streams.  That's all there really is to watch for Wildstar streams from time to time.  All I know is a lot of the big names have quit, and guilds have quit left and right because of Wildstar PvE.  I really don't think that's because it was "too challenging to complete."  The facts really don't lie on this one.  But hey, whenever "the majority of skilled raiding guilds," reach datascape levels, we'll see then and maybe we can use it as a selling point to give Wildstar some much needed life.
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Final Coil was Conquered twice within the first week of the patch. Many other guilds are on their way.
 
There is no attunement so anyone can just throw themselves at it.
 
I did Second Coil without my Guild. I got to Turn 9 in PuGs. =\
 
Titan Extreme was the only real Primal Challenge. Because of so many Insta death mechanics. Leviathan was the last Extreme I did. But I'll probably tackle Ramuh before the Weekend is out.
 
It's not my skill level, the content is just not hard to get.
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Haha don't be a hater.  You can't just make sweeping generalizations to put down my sweeping generalizations.  I very well could be wrong about Datascape and it could be the hardest PvE in any game so far.  I really love challenging PvE but after watching the videos of boss kills etc I'm still not really drawn in.  I think that's more of a game issue than mine though really. I'd want to play it if it looked very challenging.
 
I don't really know why you're targetting me as I'm not really trying to have a heated discussion about wildstar raids in this thread, but I have like 500 pvp threads, some of them are bound to be fail. =D
 
I watch them though, the raids on streams.  That's all there really is to watch for Wildstar streams from time to time.  All I know is a lot of the big names have quit, and guilds have quit left and right because of Wildstar PvE.  I really don't think that's because it was "too challenging to complete."  The facts really don't lie on this one.  But hey, whenever "the majority of skilled raiding guilds," reach datascape levels, we'll see then and maybe we can use it as a selling point to give Wildstar some much needed life.
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Ooo I haven't been keeping up. Just watched the video for the turn 12 clear. That didn't seem so bad compared to turn 9 or 5 at first, haha.
 
That's so interesting because the group I ran with found titan extreme to be one of the easier ones. Sure there were instant-death mechanics, but you have to be able to avoid mechanics. I think Titan EX was just hard due to latency issues / the tendency for pugs to make a lot of mistakes. Leviathan EX had mechanics like that too--- you could literally walk off the edge, drown, and be unrezzable. Hopefully Shiva EX doesn't permanently remove you from the fight in any way.
 
I definitely think it is your skill level. Just like all games, some PvE comes really easy to some, and not so easy to others. It's just a matter of game knowledge etc. Sure, the mechanics are easy to understand once you learn them, but that goes for just about everything. I always find the best sort of PvE content is the initial release followed by the gear to content clear, trying to race others. Once you've won/lost the race however, its all pretty easy from that point out.
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Err...you only have 4 threads, and I'm referring to your head-shakingly awful "Merge PvP and PvE servers" thread. And I'm far from a "hater", nor am I gunning for you for some super secret and hidden personal reason. I'm just a stickler for accuracy, when people spout things like they're being factal. Which you weren't being with your line about "If raids in general weren't so buggy then people would be able to clear them...yadda...yadda..yadda."
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And practically every raid across every MMO looks "easy" when you watch them. Without question. That's because guilds tend to upload their best runs. Unless it's a world 1st or it's a preview of the PTR/beta. So that's not even a moderately good talking point. As somewhat of an aside and as a useless anecdote, I don't know about you, but I never been drawn into a raid by simply watching it. That's always been dull. I want to do it myself. Not watch someone do it.
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That's really sweet of you to say. Especially coming back after 3 months I was in Syrcus Tower following the Whm like a lost puppy. I didn't feel very skilled. But I do enjoy many aspects of the game that I hope Wildstar will mimic.
 
I play SMN and WAR on Excalibur.
 
What I would like to see are more reasons to use Titan and Ifrit Egis.
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The best thing Wildstar did for new folks was give Housing at level 14. Everyone knows the Housing level trap. If FFXIV had gotten that aspect of the game I may not be here talking to you. :lol:
 
I wanna shake the housing Guy's hand for a job well done. That's how Wildstar has me truly. 
 
Wildstar has a bigger learning curve the answers to questions aren't obvious. FFXIV is packed with Tutorials saved by active help. As a new IP they need this more in Wildstar, a lot more.	
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			 There is no real comparison between 'raiding' in XIV and raids in W*....	
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I really love challenging PvE but after watching the videos of boss kills etc I'm still not really drawn in.  I think that's more of a game issue than mine though really. I'd want to play it if it looked very challenging.
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The best thing Wildstar did for new folks was give Housing at level 14. Everyone knows the Housing level trap. If FFXIV had gotten that aspect of the game I may not be here talking to you. :lol:
 
I wanna shake the housing Guy's hand for a job well done. That's how Wildstar has me truly.
 
Wildstar has a bigger learning curve the answers to questions aren't obvious. FFXIV is packed with Tutorials saved by active help. As a new IP they need this more in Wildstar, a lot more.
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{| class="blockquote"
Anything difficult looks easy when you're watching video of it, hence the phrase "...makes it look easy."
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			And I totally agree with the OP's original post, I've tried playing WoW, Rift, and GW2 since playing WS and all of them feel broken to me now. I feel like WS's mechanics have ruined me for other MMO's that lack dodge, double jump, and other differences of that nature. I really hope this game catches on enough to keep it profitable for Carbine. I'll probably stick to my Steam library if this ship sinks.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You should look into FFXIV: ARR if you're settling on Wildstar.  The game has phenomenal PvE, interesting class systems (you can choose your class by swapping gear,) a heavy focus on crafting, housing plots, etc.  The art style is a little less cartoony than Wildstar, but great art.  The combat is a little bit slower and less reactionary, but is offset by the need to predict and understand your classes and the fights.  The difficulty is much higher than Wildstar (if you ask me), but the PvP can't really compare.
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I keep trying to dash....
 
The concept of "Don't stand in that!" is universal but Wildstar "Really don't stand in that for heavens sake, man!" I was dodging all of that this weekend. I'm definitely better at it than I was three months ago and I hope that hardcore concept doesn't go away.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
 Killing scripted bosses while hoping 19-39 other people do their job correctly gets pretty old after a while.
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			I also think WS is best on the market atm. Else I wouldn't play it tbh. I love the fluid gameplay (except some technical problems) and the cool graphics ( I also was addicted to wow so cartoony graphics are my thing :D ). I love the game and will support it as long as it will get things right :)	
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{| class="blockquote"
Eeeeeh... if by phenomenal PvE you mean a bunch of uninspired boss arenas (they really, really, really like flat circles...) and mechanics SE likes to pretend are new but are actually at least a generation or two old. Some of the encounters in Coil 2 were fun, but they weren't what I'd call challenging (at least not on the level I was looking for), and the rest of the PvE content was absolutely a snoozefest for me (yes, even Titan - memorize the pattern and woopdeedoo; I got it down in a night). The crafting is tedious, and though it seems good on paper, in reality crouching over your crafting table and hitting macros really isn't all that fun. The housing situation in XIV is an absolute fiasco that WildStar beats by miles and miles. The art style is good; I will give it that. I loved how my characters looked (and still do), but then SE tarnishes it by a horribly restrictive glamour system, which pretty much means you have about 1/3 the options for looks as you should have and only at level cap... The story itself was really just nonsensical to me in many ways, and I hated the constant forced solo encounters.
 
The most fun I had in that game was the roleplay and when I could plow ahead in raids or dungeons and AoE down crap tons of trash with holy.
 
It's a shame, because the game's really pretty, and I love the emote system. But the preponderance of arbitrary restrictions and other annoyances was just too much. :(
 
WildStar is definitely for me! And if WildStar would just add in XIV's emote system, head turning, and give us more costume slots, I'd probably be the happiest person ever.
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{| class="blockquote"
Disagree. WoW still has pride of primacy. WS may be up and coming but, right now they are going the route of SWTOR. Time will tell. I would like to see WS unseat WoW. ;)
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I still remember when I first heard about Wildstar. It was actually pretty late, in early May only about a month before launch. Being a wow player, I heard about it in passing from the odd person here and there but never really went out of my way to properly investigate.
 
 
One day, I was bored on the internet (as I'm sure many can relate) and decided to check out what this new mmo was all about. I stumbled upon the reveal trailer and I instantaneously fell in love with the art, characters, and humor presented. I absolutely adore cartoony art styles having grown up with titles like Ratchet and Clank as well as the Jak series back in my teenage years.
 
 
I then went on to consume all I could about this new IP. I especially liked the faction trailers. I thought they advertised and represented each faction flawlessly- an attractive, enthusiastic to a fault, southern-stye cowgirl (Kit Brinny) for the Exiles and an older, dignified gentleman (Malvolio Portius) for the Dominion. Good lord was it hard for me to choose. xD
 
 
It was then that I decided to check out the other aspects of the game. Being a big lore/story guy, interesting characters and back story are a must for me (I need reasons to collect X amount of this while killing Y amount of that for Z levels :P). With the amount of care they put into these areas, I was thoroughly impressed.
 
 
I eventually got into beta where I got to experience the action combat that I had heard so much about. That was it. From that point I knew that this game was something special. I pre-ordered the digital deluxe edition and the rest was history.
 
 
 
Anyhow, long story short, it has been a long time since I have experienced a game in which I've had this much fun. To me at least, it is definitely the best in the genre. :D	
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You still need knowledge of other classes as a raider if you want to be the best, but the knowledge differs quite a bit from PvP since we're trying to work together to defeat a foe and not defeat each other.
It becomes really important once you have to sort out players into smaller groups and make best use of the buffs that certain classes provide ie. Power Link, Empowering Probes, Medic crit chance buff, smackdown etc and sort them based on cleave and such. I think you quite overwhelmingly underestimate how difficult PvE content can be. Once you've done Datascape 9/9 you can say what you think and once I get 2.4k I can say vice versa, but I'm not. 
 
You can try and explain how raids in Wildstar work, but until you actually do said content you shouldn't try and put 1 above another. It's simply ignorant as hell to do so if I may. I can watch PvP streams and think that looks easy enough, but the players streaming usually has their shit figured out whether it's PvE or PvP wise. 	
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			I agree. WS has its issues, but it is the best option out there as far as I'm concerned.
			
				
	Edited November 8, 2014 by BusterCasey	
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Hey all,
 
Please remember to keep it on topic and without finger-pointing and name calling.	
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I've played and raided in both FFXIV and Wildstar.  Nothing you are saying is making any sense to me Eclips.  The statement that you believe FFXIV bosses are less scripted than Wildstar, is just about as false as saying that a triangle is a square.  Every encounter I came across in FFXIV was just a dance routine that 8 people had to memorize.
 
And like other people have said, 2 guilds have gotten to 7/9 Datascape since launch, and those guilds will raid 7 days a week.  The FFXIV guild I was in, is top on server.  clearing raids in a week or maybe two after release on a 3 or 4 day a week schedule.  And new Primals are a matter of hours.  I just cannot agree with your assessment of the difficulty in raiding between FFXIV and Wildstar	
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			If we're discussing FFXIV, yep, simple memorization there's no thinking on your toes it's just how long it takes people to remember a pattern since the way it's developed a boss will always follow that pattern until it's pushed to a certain threshold. The mechanics are keep out of red in its own way, tbh I think the majority of GA is easy up till ohmna which is just a little more difficult, will not know about DS quite yet but I do like the raids in WS. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Probably because PvE as a whole, is easy and scripted.  It's not like I haven't cleared PvE content in just about every other game out there.  Comparatively speaking to just FFXIV, theyve had raids that have taken months and months and almost to the next content patch for the majority of people to clear.
 
In Wildstar, it seems that once guilds have spent a lot of time on bosses, they get them.  I'd imagine if things weren't so buggy / able to be cleared, people would have cleared datascape already as well.  I never underestimate the ability of a hardcore raiding guild, and often content is blocked by either gear, bugs, or overtuned difficulty.
 
Overall pve is pretty easy once you have the gear / the strat.  The hard part is figuring those things out.
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{| class="blockquote"
Probably because PvE as a whole, is easy and scripted. It's not like I haven't cleared PvE content in just about every other game out there. Comparatively speaking to just FFXIV, theyve had raids that have taken months and months and almost to the next content patch for the majority of people to clear.
 
In Wildstar, it seems that once guilds have spent a lot of time on bosses, they get them. I'd imagine if things weren't so buggy / able to be cleared, people would have cleared datascape already as well. I never underestimate the ability of a hardcore raiding guild, and often content is blocked by either gear, bugs, or overtuned difficulty.
 
Overall pve is pretty easy once you have the gear / the strat. The hard part is figuring those things out.
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Finished Ramuh (Extreme) on my first PuG. 6 of us got the achievement.
 
The 2 "experienced" folks had a handful of wins between them. Took about 2 hours.
 
If I manage to down Shiva (Extreme) and T9 I'll have completed all the unlocked Instances outside of new Coil...
 
I'm sorry, Even for first timers, it's just not that difficult.	
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It's the best option, but not the most popular one. Most human beings are mindless sheep, and would rather play a brand name than a new IP, hence all the people flocking to World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and SWtOR.
 
But even then, W* isn't perfect at all. It needs work. It needs love. It definitely isn't a top tier MMO right now. It's got tons of bugs and features that don't even work and aren't even used (Warplots) despite being extremely GOOD features on their own, they are so riddled with BUGS that they're practically unplayable (after 4 hours of trying to start a Warplot match and being met with infinite loading screens and bugged parties and bugged queues, I'm pretty sure Warplots are infested with bugs) so Wildstar is yeah, very far from perfect and polished. You could say it's a new company, a new IP, whatever, but it's not really an excuse, and I understand why the population is low.
 
But the game itself is good, the content itself is GREAT (warplots and raids are actually *cupcake*ing AMAZING if you ever get to play them, the problem is nobody actually gets to play them because of all the bugs, the difficulty of attunement, low population, and so on and so on) and way better than anything WoW or any other MMO has to offer. It takes more skill, it has better art, lore, emotes, RP content, guild content, raid content, PvP content, EVERYTHING, and it's a fresh new IP that hasn't been around and growing stale for 10+ years. It's just not polished.
 
So either polish this game up Carbine or lower the price. Because as it is now it's not what people paid for.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It's the best option, but not the most popular one. Most human beings are mindless sheep, and would rather play a brand name than a new IP, hence all the people flocking to World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and SWtOR.
 
But even then, W* isn't perfect at all. It needs work. It needs love. It definitely isn't a top tier MMO right now. It's got tons of bugs and features that don't even work and aren't even used (Warplots) despite being extremely GOOD features on their own, they are so riddled with BUGS that they're practically unplayable (after 4 hours of trying to start a Warplot match and being met with infinite loading screens and bugged parties and bugged queues, I'm pretty sure Warplots are infested with bugs) so Wildstar is yeah, very far from perfect and polished. You could say it's a new company, a new IP, whatever, but it's not really an excuse, and I understand why the population is low.
 
But the game itself is good, the content itself is GREAT (warplots and raids are actually *cupcake*ing AMAZING if you ever get to play them, the problem is nobody actually gets to play them because of all the bugs, the difficulty of attunement, low population, and so on and so on) and way better than anything WoW or any other MMO has to offer. It takes more skill, it has better art, lore, emotes, RP content, guild content, raid content, PvP content, EVERYTHING, and it's a fresh new IP that hasn't been around and growing stale for 10+ years. It's just not polished.
 
So either polish this game up Carbine or lower the price. Because as it is now it's not what people paid for.
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While Wildstar is currently the best on the market, I don't believe it's there for good reasons. All these companies these days are just losing sight of what gaming was, and are pandering more and more to the instant gratification demanding, lazy, slightly unintelligent masses that now infest games.
 
Positive Attributes
 
The combat is more fun than anything else (now that WoW gutted everything it had)
The story is great - if a little dark
The art style is bright, vibrant, quirky and fun, rather than all dark and gritty like most games try to be
Housing is awesome, and I hope they expand on it
The music is a step above other games
The humor in the game is great, if a little understated
Though, with all those traits, some of them are just shells of what they could be.
 
Sure, the combat is a lot more fun than any of the competitors, but if Blizzard hadn't gutted all the classes in WoW with WoD, I wouldn't be playing this game. I don't know what the obsession is with the LAS concept, but it makes combat incredibly boring, since you're eliminating any potential complexity or depth -- just so you move around in combat more often. Movement is one of the simplest mechanics in a game like this, and basing ALL of the combat around it (dungeons, raids, you name it) is just silly, if you ask me. Honestly I think you could play the game with one hand behind your back with one eye closed, while half asleep, and still do fairly well. The combat takes little to no thought. The rotation of most classes in this game involves spamming one or two buttons as fast as you can humanly manage, and then using a few other abilities as needed. Does that make for fun, engaging combat? Not really. However, there is no game out there that is as challenging as this one, because if you mess up, you're dead. There is no cushion or anything, you just die if you mess up. Does that redeem the combat? Not in my book. Does it set the game above others? Yep.
 
The story in Wildstar is shiny and new, and it is interesting, but is it really all that deep? The lore of a video game should feel like a book or a movie, and you're the main character or the lead role, but does Wildstar really feel like that? With their "Tweet length quest text," I just can't help but feel disconnected from it all. The game doesn't do a whole lot to draw you in, and since they outright refuse to write quest text, a lot of the content feels disjointed and fragmented, and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. "Oh hey, go imbue this key thing that does something that's important!" "Oh, go kill Ohmna! Why? 'cause the Genesis Prime said so, that's why!" It goes far beyond that, but very little in this game is explained or told in-game. The journals you collect don't do a whole lot to elaborate, they just give background story -- same with the data cubes. In a game like WoW, you had text you could read, and it would give a whole zone some coherent theme or story. In this game, you have to guess and try to figure out what's going on on your own. Is the story interesting? Yep, it certainly is, but I think that's just because it's shiny and new. Is the story very good? Well, it's hard to say. With the fragmented bits and pieces, there really is no theme. There's just the fact that the Strain are bad, the Eldan did crazy science, and Drusera isn't what she seems. But what are we imbuing that key thing for? Why were all kinds of Marauders in Algoroc and Whitevale? What are we chasing down Ohmna for, aside from the fact that she's a Strain monster? This game just doesn't have that storybook feeling that I miss in gaming.
 
While this game is certainly the best on the market, I really don't think this is a very good game on its own. However, most people disagree with me. So, whatever.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It's the best option, but not the most popular one. Most human beings are mindless sheep, and would rather play a brand name than a new IP, hence all the people flocking to World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, and SWtOR.
 
But even then, W* isn't perfect at all. It needs work. It needs love. It definitely isn't a top tier MMO right now. It's got tons of bugs and features that don't even work and aren't even used (Warplots) despite being extremely GOOD features on their own, they are so riddled with BUGS that they're practically unplayable (after 4 hours of trying to start a Warplot match and being met with infinite loading screens and bugged parties and bugged queues, I'm pretty sure Warplots are infested with bugs) so Wildstar is yeah, very far from perfect and polished. You could say it's a new company, a new IP, whatever, but it's not really an excuse, and I understand why the population is low.
 
But the game itself is good, the content itself is GREAT (warplots and raids are actually *cupcake*ing AMAZING if you ever get to play them, the problem is nobody actually gets to play them because of all the bugs, the difficulty of attunement, low population, and so on and so on) and way better than anything WoW or any other MMO has to offer. It takes more skill, it has better art, lore, emotes, RP content, guild content, raid content, PvP content, EVERYTHING, and it's a fresh new IP that hasn't been around and growing stale for 10+ years. It's just not polished.
 
So either polish this game up Carbine or lower the price. Because as it is now it's not what people paid for.
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I'll be very honest and say I'm jumping the ship here until Carbine has sorted things out, and when they decide to add more cosmetic items...
 
Definitely not going to miss out on WoD with just sitting around waiting for things to happen.	
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			Fair enough opinions.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Drives me nuts when someone dismisses someone as being "sheep" just because they play/do something you don't like. People like to play with friends, AAA titles deliver that. Word of mouth/advertising is major deciding factor as well, WS has bad word of mouth, and do they even advertise?
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{| class="blockquote"
 WoW does have more complex DPS but every boss is just people standing there doing damage never moving. The entire PvE experience is stationary.
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{| class="blockquote"
I never even once brought up what "I like" in my post. You're putting words in my mouth, pretty much. My preferences have absolutely nothing to do with my point.
 
People flock to games that have background, advertisement, and popularity. If people hear their friends say "I play WoW yo" then they too play WoW, regardless of whether or not they actually find all of its features pleasing. They put up with the nonsense in order to play with their friends and appear "cool". It's basic human nature, take a psychology course or something. It's really easy to read trends when you have a basic understanding of human needs and wants.
 
Unfortunately since Wildstar's ad campaign was HORRIBLE, not many people have heard of it. And it's launch was bad and filled with bugs, so of the people that DID hear, many did not like it. Marketing has almost NOTHING to do with how much content your game has; look at most of the successful titles on the market like Call of Duty, Blizzard games, Mobile games like Angry Birds and so on.. All of those games have almost no content at all, but they have a brand name for recognition, and they have fluid gameplay, mostly. Wildstar has LOADS of great, new and awesome content, but it's a new title with NO brand name, and the gameplay is rocky and has quite a few bugs, and LOADS of bugs at launch.
 
Wildstar had a HUGE hill to climb at launch. It had to be SO GOOD that it actually became trending, despite being a non-brand-name title. It didn't live up to those expectations. But the thing is, almost no games actually do nowadays. 10-15 years ago, when video games were relatively new on the market, new IPs could start off. But now the market is completely flooded and people only want brand names, and look at new titles with skepticism. It's just how it is. Wildstar wasn't amazing and groudbreaking enough to fulfill the needs of the masses who have the attention span of goldfish. Doesn't mean W* is a bad game, it's a GREAT game, it's just not trendy enough.
 
Tl;dr who gets caught wearing non-brand-name clothes? Ew no, loser, so not fashionable, like oh mai gawd. Same goes for games.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's obviously been a long long time since you played WoW or you are being extremely liberal with the truth. MOP had some very movement intensive boss fights and very few that were stationary. WOD will be just as movement intensive if not more so.
 
WIldstar hasn't lost most of its player base  because its the best MMO on the market... just sayin. you can make all the excuses you like, the majority spoke loud and clear with their wallets.
 
I love the game but be realistic, its not even close to the best option in the genre. It might, MIGHT make the top 10
 
 
opinions are fun aren't they.
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			Tried wow yrs ago, it wasn't to my liking. Played for yrs city of heroes, which was fun for me. Champions online, and dcuo gave them a chance since i love superheroes and didn't stayed for long. I don't know about game mechanics and the like i play to have fun. From time to time i play GW 2, and take a long break from it again. So far i find wildstar fun, and i enjoy playing it.	
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			You might say that Wildstar is the best on the market at the moment, but that is not because it is great, the other mmo's are just really bad.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You might say that Wildstar is the best on the market at the moment, but that is not because it is great, the other mmo's are just really bad.
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{| class="blockquote"
It's obviously been a long long time since you played WoW or you are being extremely liberal with the truth. MOP had some very movement intensive boss fights and very few that were stationary. WOD will be just as movement intensive if not more so.
 
WIldstar hasn't lost most of its player base  because its the best MMO on the market... just sayin. you can make all the excuses you like, the majority spoke loud and clear with their wallets.
 
I love the game but be realistic, its not even close to the best option in the genre. It might, MIGHT make the top 10
 
 
opinions are fun aren't they.
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I don't want to go as far as to claim that Wild Star is the best game in the genre. Its a good game (one of the better mmo's to have been released in a while), but it has it flaws.
 
While i will be gone for a while do to the upcoming expansion in WoW, then WildStar will still be one few other mmo's that i keep my eye on. I'm very curious about the state of the game when i decide to try it out again in 6-12 months. The game has a lot of potential so i will be looking forward to it.	
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Dharnell et al,
 
You can not dismiss the fact that WoW is still THE powerhouse in the market.
 
Attempting to dismiss my comment ( and the facts ) with a typical attempt at demonization aside.
 
WoW IS the game to beat, it will be and is for the foreseeable future.
 
WS is currently floundering. I do wish WS to succeed but, facts are facts despite what you or anyone else would "have us believe" in your "own private Idaho". <_<	
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Also a question of if people can step out of their comfort zone and try new games. I was very hesitant at first when I went from having spend 7 years of my life playing WoW to trying a brand new IP, but there is little to regret. 
I don't think that WoW is a bad game in any way, but it feels old (Because it is,duh) and that's why I can't quite get myself to play WoW. I'm pretty much convinced that tab targetting combat is a thing of the past now. Also double jump, dash etc gives a game a whole new dynamic. 
 
Overall I don't think Wildstar is the best option what so ever at the moment, but it's definitely a good one. Problem is that it's a brand new IP with nothing to back it up unlike FFXIV with the final fantasy franchise, SWTOR with Star Wars etc.
I'd say perhaps with drop 4 in January we might see some good stuff. Drop 3 isn't the kind of drop that would attract a whole lot of players, it's mostly QoL which only helps players who already played the game or players who previously played the game. It's content drops that attracts the masses. 	
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Heh.  Razhork has it right. If there's one thing gamers hate it's innovation.
 
Look at some of the best games out there for their immersive story, innovative game play and gorgeous art-style.
 
Call of Duty outsells them by a factor of 10.
 
I'm sorry WoW is not the best game out there. It's the most common game out there.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Dharnell et al,
 
You can not dismiss the fact that WoW is still THE powerhouse in the market.
 
Attempting to dismiss my comment ( and the facts ) with a typical attempt at demonization aside.
 
WoW IS the game to beat, it will be and is for the foreseeable future.
 
WS is currently floundering. I do wish WS to succeed but, facts are facts despite what you or anyone else would "have us believe" in your "own private Idaho". <_<
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{| class="blockquote"
WoW isn't "bad" and neither is Star Wars. Nor is Eve Online or FF14.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd rather stick red hot needles in my eyes than endure tab-targetting again thanks.
 
So yeah, those games blow.
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{| class="blockquote"
Unfortunately, there is tab-targeting in WildStar.
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{| class="blockquote"
I havent noticed it on the medic.
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{| class="blockquote"
Spellslinger and Esper both have skills that require click/tab-targeting. Much to my dismay. Dx I really wish Carbine had designed those spells in a way that let us "paint" targets in-game rather than having to fiddle with party UIs or making sure the proper enemy is targeted.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd rather stick red hot needles in my eyes than endure tab-targetting again thanks.
 
So yeah, those games blow.
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{| class="blockquote"
Mind Meld, Phantasmal Armour and... I think that's it on an esper? Very few abilities and not like they're hard to do :D
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			I take the 18 with chicken, and no fries but rice. *starting best game on mother*cupcake*ing earth* (wildstar).	
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{| class="blockquote"
Mind Over Body. Bolster.
 
Takes me out of the action feel of the game. :( Which is sad, cause I adore esper otherwise.
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{| class="blockquote"
I find it kind of easy, because instead of targeting the enemy I always keep my target on the tank. So everything single target goes to him. Very rarely do I need to rush to heal 1 DPS specifically, so I mostly don't have to detarget. 
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{| class="blockquote"
TBH most of the baddies are the ones that tab target decent players click and only tab if there is a huge ball of enemies and they cant click on their hit box or name plates... kind of like people who have to mouse click the button manually as opposed to hitting the buttons on keyboard (or even better the 12 buttons on the side of a decent mouse).
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{| class="blockquote"
The "goodies" just switch to games that have better combat rather than trying to make archaic targetting systems work.
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			I stand by my OP but i gotta say, as i cant play at US primetime, and wanting to make the switch to Dominion, the population boss is really starting to drain my wildstar hype resource :(	
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			I've resubbed after a couple of months "playing away" after (happily) realising that Wildstar has ruined other MMO's for me. SWTOR and WoW felt clunky as hell in comparison to the combat, visuals and personality on Nexus. Which is not to say the game's without its flaws, I find the levelling to be a bit of a lonely experience and trying to pug a dungeon is pretty much pointless. That said I hope the population grows a bit, Wildstar deserves to do well! 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Thats like, your opinion man!
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{| class="blockquote"
So is your whole post.
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Dharnell,
 
I assume nothing and I have not a "dog in this fight".  I merely state the facts as present that there is a game (WoW) that holds the market share of gamers. Given that Carbine needs to continue to use their competitor's as a bench mark to "succeed" ( something that you decry ) in the market place not because of WoW itself but, because of the capricious nature of Carbine's publisher: NCSoft.  History shows that NCSoft will even can a successful game ( City of Heroes ) so, what hope does WS have if they can not garner a significant share of the playerbase to play their game.
 
Look face it WS is on the wane, much too soon.  I have posited in previous posts that "we" the players are to blame.  Much to the fact that most people today are, selfish, entitled and greedy.  Goodness forbid that a game developer doesn't kowtow to their needs.
 
If WS fails it will be on the part of the player base and the age of modernity and NOT because WS is "not a good product". WS is in fact an awesome product in the MMOspace and the fact than many wish to bully Carbine into a particular wicket to satisfy their needs is just indicative of the nature of their customers.
 
WS is a good product and the lot of you should let Carbine develop their product and quit forcing them to be "WoW" because in the end that is what the lot of you are doing. :P	
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{| class="blockquote"
Dharnell,
 
I assume nothing and I have not a "dog in this fight".  I merely state the facts as present that there is a game (WoW) that holds the market share of gamers. Given that Carbine needs to continue to use their competitor's as a bench mark to "succeed" ( something that you decry ) in the market place not because of WoW itself but, because of the capricious nature of Carbine's publisher: NCSoft.  History shows that NCSoft will even can a successful game ( City of Heroes ) so, what hope does WS have if they can not garner a significant share of the playerbase to play their game.
 
Look face it WS is on the wane, much too soon.  I have posited in previous posts that "we" the players are to blame.  Much to the fact that most people today are, selfish, entitled and greedy.  Goodness forbid that a game developer doesn't kowtow to their needs.
 
If WS fails it will be on the part of the player base and the age of modernity and NOT because WS is "not a good product". WS is in fact an awesome product in the MMOspace and the fact than many wish to bully Carbine into a particular wicket to satisfy their needs is just indicative of the nature of their customers.
 
WS is a good product and the lot of you should let Carbine develop their product and quit forcing them to be "WoW" because in the end that is what the lot of you are doing. :P
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Yeah, no, Kytar, it's not the fault of the players that Wildstar had trouble. I think the Wildstar devs bit off more than they could chew with the ambitious patch release schedule that did not take into account all the bugs in the game at launch that would be complicated by the newly released bugs in each patch, the issues with PvP being imbalanced in the first season...
 
The content in the game was beefy for a launch and they just got overwhelmed with it. 
 
Other than that... was Wildstar a bad game at launch? No. It's a great game. And it's a new IP. Which is what the MMO market needs, in my opinion.	
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Thats like, your opinion man!
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but the fact of the matter is... In the MMORPG business you get 1 chance to hook your audience. even if wildstar was perfected tomorrow They still wouldn't be able to gain traction and regrow again.
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Unfortunately, WoW has become entirely too "game-ified" since launch.  Back when everyone was still naïve to the MMO genre, WoW was actually a world to explore, and discovering and conquering new content in the game was actually exhilarating. 
 
Now it's all so transparent and clearly orchestrated that it's not longer a voyage of discovery but the latest episode of grinding 5 levels then replaying the same content at 4 different difficulty levels, as if the bad guys are in their lair looking at a list of arriving parties and discussing how hard they should try for this next group coming in because they are noobs in quest greens, but then they'll really bring the pain when that group with dungeon blues comes in after them.
 
Now sadly every WoW imitator has taken up the same system instead of making the world a dangerous place that not everyone should be able to explore in full until they've improved their character.  It's all so formulaic at this point that it has put a stain on the entire genre.
 
Wildstar is by far the best new MMO since WoW launched.  It actually has a solid score of skill based combat, and isn't yet rehashing all of its content to cater to the lowest common denominator.  I'm sorry if you feel the game needs an entry level difficulty for every piece of content, but I think that dilutes the value of each experience, and keeps players from improving (because why bother if you've already seen that dungeon on the lowest difficulty?).  It has also completely ruined me for any other MMO, including WoW.  I just can't go back to tab target combat, and if Wildstar were to vanish tomorrow I would quit MMOs altogether before I went looking for another one to play.
 
The only real downside to Wildstar is that it's a new IP, without existing lore, so it's hard to get attached to the world building at this point.  There are just very few memorable characters to follow.  Drusera is great, and I'm aware of Deadeye Brightland. Dorian/Belle Walker, and the two Granok's.  Except for Drusera they're just not interesting people.  They're no Illidan, no Arthas.	
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It's obviously been a long long time since you played WoW or you are being extremely liberal with the truth. MOP had some very movement intensive boss fights and very few that were stationary. WOD will be just as movement intensive if not more so.
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There are just very few memorable characters to follow.  Drusera is great, and I'm aware of Deadeye Brightland. Dorian/Belle Walker, and the two Granok's.  Except for Drusera they're just not interesting people.  They're no Illidan, no Arthas.
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I agree here. I don't really care for lore and stuff like this, but I liked drusera's character.  However, I really really liked Illidan's character and read stuff on it whenever I can.  I don't even know of really other people in Wildstar other than Kazrek because he's always there and useless and Drusera/Entity.
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The only real downside to Wildstar is that it's a new IP, without existing lore, so it's hard to get attached to the world building at this point.  There are just very few memorable characters to follow.  Drusera is great, and I'm aware of Deadeye Brightland. Dorian/Belle Walker, and the two Granok's.  Except for Drusera they're just not interesting people.  They're no Illidan, no Arthas.
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None of those Warcraft characters were all that interesting to me at first either. Only through constant books, lore snippets, (or at least multiple missions with spoken dialogue) were they fleshed out and made remotely interesting.
 
And is everyone forgetting about Toric Antevian? Other than Artemis Zin he's the only other person I find interesting in the Dominion. The two characters who are fleshed out the mostWOW 
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-snip-
Now sadly every WoW imitator has taken up the same system instead of making the world a dangerous place that not everyone should be able to explore in full until they've improved their character.  It's all so formulaic at this point that it has put a stain on the entire genre.
-snip-
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WoW and other Blizzard products are memorable because of the amount of polish on key parts of the game, and attention to detail. Wildstar does not feel as polished - but it is a hell of a lot more polished than Hellgate London was - the last time former Blizzard developers made new IP away from Blizzard.
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System Daemons pretty much destroys your entire argument. Gear and bugs never stopped anyone from killing that boss and it took us 41 days to get the world first kill. Then once you finally kill the boss you'll probably still wipe on it for weeks and weeks because it's still a tough fight. Hell I remember wiping on SD for almost a week AFTER we had killed it before.
 
PvE in this game is much harder than any other MMO. WoW does have more complex DPS but every boss is just people standing there doing damage never moving. The entire PvE experience is stationary.
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The fact of the matter is that Final Fantasy XIV, SWTOR, Eve Online, and Rift all show that this is not the case. Let us know when you learn what "fact" means.
 
And "cool story bro" about moving 60+ people to WoW. Which is an unprovable anecdote.
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www.fraghard.com and you'll see we moved to WoW secondly look up death destruction mayhem guild on arthas server and youll see we have over 600+ members, Thats what I call FACT.... secondly those games you listed have failed, going from a sub model to free to play is like a boxer throwing in the towel and admitting defeat. end of story bro....
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no invisible walls yay
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And finally, the big bad wolf, World of Warcraft. I really have nothing bad to say about this game, however, i also have not much good to say about it. Dont get me wrong , its WoW, but thats just it. Its Wow. !0 years of wow, again this is a personal take and a personal post, but for me there is no hype. I used to spend blizzcons with my guild excited for news, new expansion prep took months. There is no hype train, the whole thing is neither YAY or NAY. its just meh. meh meh meh.
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After months of QQ, soul searching, MMO shopping and comparisons in my opinion, Wildstar seems to be the best option on the market currently.
 
Lets start with some of the compitition:
 
Archage is seemingly self destructing, wether they mean it as a cash grab or not its very clear many fans are unhappy with the shift to pay to win, of course this may have been inevitable as it is a free to play based game.
 
SwTor: Good game, but suffers the same free to play gating that affects all games with the payment model. Also, and maybe this is just personal, the graphics dont appear to be holding up to well, i mean the character models alone look dated after seeing wildstar and even WoWs new models.
 
FFAAR: Very good game, or so i hear, however the eastern artstyle isnt for everyone, although it has a major presence in the west, i cant really speak for this one as im a fan of more western art style games, so i wont go into detail as i dont hav the information too.
 
GW2: Lacking significant PVE.
 
And finally, the big bad wolf, World of Warcraft. I really have nothing bad to say about this game, however, i also have not much good to say about it. Dont get me wrong , its WoW, but thats just it. Its Wow. !0 years of wow, again this is a personal take and a personal post, but for me there is no hype. I used to spend blizzcons with my guild excited for news, new expansion prep took months. There is no hype train, the whole thing is neither YAY or NAY. its just meh. meh meh meh.
 
And now wildstar. Some of my complaints in the past? Bugs, we all know about the fixes coming. Not enough content for casuals/soloers/chill out players. Well looky here, a jump in mission/dungeon in omnicore, a group WORLD event, requiring no attunement, and the promise of much more in that vein to come.
PVE-I did it, i joined a guild and did some group content, not raiding mind you, but organized group content. With the forgiving attitude of the guild, it brought back that feeling of BC wow dungeons. The pick yourself u p and try again, oh well we got one of them down it should be easier this pull feeling.
Raid, cant speak for this, but apparently its epic. very epic. *cupcaking* epic.
Lore/Story. I mean come on, paralels of the battle of light and dark with drusera and entity, a beautiful world littered with lore tidbits in books and voiced data cubes. And according to some posts by the devs, current and future design hopes to have most of this story content available outside of raids.
Ambience, the music, the MUSIC man. The art style, while a put off for some is glorious in my eyes. the entire intelectual property of the wildstar universe just pulls me in, and is probably why i kept coming back and stomping my feet and crying instead of just moving on, its ENGAGING.
 
Well there you have it, it took me 4 months, but with a good guild (who i wont mention because i dont want them getting hate from the people who i know dislike me here)  and an open mind, one of the biggest whiner/critics/QQers/ragers of the forums has to say, at this point in time
 
Wildstar is the best option on the market for many players who have filled their quota of orc killing, and want a fresh start on a fresh planet full of oppertunity and promise.
 
See you on Nexus folks.
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Let's see.  10 years and WoW gained the most subs for an expansion.  Even beat Wrath and BC.  They are over 10 mil subs.  Hmmm 10 year old game and still subs increased.  Yet W* and many of the other mmo's keep/kept declinging.  And this would happen after only the first few months after their launch.  I know it is your opinion and I respect that but not sure what you mean by hype?  WoD had a lot of hype and it is living up to most people's expectations.  Yes there were issues during launch.  But they fixed that rather quickly.  For me WoW is YES!!!
 
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popular doesn't necessarily mean good. 
My uni friends absolutely hate world of warcraft, yet they religiously play it. Why? Because "everyone else is here". 
You don't have to be a really good product to have masses of people following it. Just look at Twillight, or Justin Bieber, or anyone and anything else that's famous, yet obviously not that good.
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I also think WoW is a good game. Although, I am a bit different from the usual in terms of the way I judge roleplaying games.
 
When it comes to rpg's, lore, story telling, aesthetic, and character design tend to matter more to me than raw game mechanics. For me, an rpg can be amazing mechanically but if it does not impress me in the ways mentioned, I'll have a much harder time getting into it.
 
In this regard, I still enjoy WoW because I love the Warcraft series even if the game adheres to old mechanics.
 
These are also the biggest reasons why I play Wildstar- I love everything about the universe.	
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That's horse crap, WoW has many fights where there is a'lot of movement. I can name atleast 30 bosses that if you stand still you will die. Secondly WS has bosses which do not require a'lot of movement either. X-89 for example. unless you get little or big bomb the only time you have to move is for spew.
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popular doesn't necessarily mean good. 
My uni friends absolutely hate world of warcraft, yet they religiously play it. Why? Because "everyone else is here". 
You don't have to be a really good product to have masses of people following it. Just look at Twillight, or Justin Bieber, or anyone and anything else that's famous, yet obviously not that good.
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I agree with you but going off of 10 mil subs kind of says a lot.  I seriously doubt the majority of those people feel like your friends do.  Your Justin Bieber and Twlight examples are pretty bad.  Obviously the music/movie world liked them or else they wouldn't have pulled in so much money.  I hate them both but people speak with their wallets so.
 
"You don't have to be a really good product to have masses of people following it."
Well guess what?  Blizzard has a really good product and the best company also.  So you saying this actually doesn't apply here.  If the product wasn't really good it wouldn't have 10 mil subs and that is a fact.  Even when they were at 6.8 mil subs WoW was still a great product.  And sorry but WoW is miles better than W*.  (Since others seem to say W* is way better than WoW without saying imo then I can do it too)
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			Well it may be the best option but I pretty much stopped logging in. I don't PVE and there is no PVP. My new main is level 23 Dommie because I got tired of the Exiles. Just not interested in questing, maybe if the population rebounds and PVP becomes viable sub 50 I may log in more. Things like this make me understand why folks pay to have someone else power level them.	
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I agree with you but going off of 10 mil subs kind of says a lot.  I seriously doubt the majority of those people feel like your friends do.  Your Justin Bieber and Twlight examples are pretty bad.  Obviously the music/movie world liked them or else they wouldn't have pulled in so much money.  I hate them both but people speak with their wallets so.
 
"You don't have to be a really good product to have masses of people following it."
Well guess what?  Blizzard has a really good product and the best company also.  So you saying this actually doesn't apply here.  If the product wasn't really good it wouldn't have 10 mil subs and that is a fact.  Even when they were at 6.8 mil subs WoW was still a great product.  And sorry but WoW is miles better than W*.  (Since others seem to say W* is way better than WoW without saying imo then I can do it too)
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