122684-yet-another-person-considering-a-return-page-2

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Why take great 20 man content, purpose-built for a coordinated 20 man group, and make it into something it's clearly not when the game already has those things in other forms already?  If what you're suggesting is really what people want, we'd be hearing them wanting more Shiphands or Lightspire, not a full GA retune.
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so somebody is doing dungeons and wanting to do raids
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I think what we need to define is what "do raids" means.
 
Many of us see the coordination required in the current WS raids as the core of the experience. You take take that out, and you really aren't "doing raids". You're doing exactly what is already available with the world bosses, and just putting it in an instance.
 
So is that what people want? A 20 man instance that is a series of tank and spank bosses?
 
If so, I see no reason Carbine couldn't create something like this, but it would be different than trying to change GA and DS into that.
 
Again, X89 without the bombs is just running into a room filled with hexagons and killing a big green frog. The same is true with Kuralak without the eggs. Stripping of what makes them fun and interesting would not be cool. Better to create something new.
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10 mans would make a nice addition to the game, dungeons a step harder with twice as many players and they could be designed not to last as long as bigger raids.
They could make for a good compromise for casual players willing to tackle some bigger group instanced content. 
They are also the right size for smaller guilds and friends/ family guilds, they are a lot easier to field and organize, not to mention 10 mans are great fun :)
 
Also I think a system similar to the warplot mercenary idea (if that still exists ?!) could benefit both guilds and lone/ casual players looking for a glimpse/ taste of what raids are or look like.
Just sign up as a mercenary, and if a guild/ raid needs more manpower they can easily find replacements on the go.	
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			There are plenty of casual guilds that can scratch your raiding itch without requiring part-time hours to do so. I only raid once a week, for 2 hours. It's all I can commit to at this time. I'm not sure why you need 10 man raids to accomplish casual raiding.	
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Also I think a system similar to the warplot mercenary idea (if that still exists ?!) could benefit both guilds and lone/ casual players looking for a glimpse/ taste of what raids are or look like.
Just sign up as a mercenary, and if a guild/ raid needs more manpower they can easily find replacements on the go.
 
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If people are happy in a 10man version of x89 where its just them and a frog then let them be happy.
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Perhaps. However, Carbine has shown it can make brilliant content when it focuses on hitting the target specifically. The raids are awesome and the shiphands are aweseome. I'd rather see them apply shiphand ideas to large groups designed for more casual players than see them try to "dumb down" their existing stuff targeted at those more interested in coordiation.
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What I'm really saying is, when Carbine creates casual content for casuals, they do great. So develop some 20 man casual stuff- that sounds good to me. And yeah, make it flex raid style. Sounds good.
 
As near as I can tell, people are running a ton of Vet Shiphands, so clearly there's a demand for easier content that is fun because it is stylized and told in an entertaining way. That you don't have to think too much about and can just join up with your friends to do. I see nothing wrong with doing this on a larger scale, and might even scratch an itch. Call it "flex raiding" or whatever.
 
I think that would be a lot more fun than trying to figure out ways to make GA work in a LFR style.	
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You would probably have to ask some of the uber casuals why they want to see the inside of a raid.
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what's more it in no way, shape or form affects the regular raiders.
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All you have to do is ask Blizzard/SquareEnix/BioWare how many people per thousand customers play their raid content and then ask Carbine the same question, and without a doubt, Carbine will have a substantially smaller number.
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You could also ask all those other companies how many players are doing their shiphands. Or adventures.
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			This really doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.	
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Completely irrelevant. Carbine and Blizzard/SE both develop raid content. Assuming it takes both teams the same amount of time/resources to develop a raid, per percentage of players, more play Blizzards/SE raid content than play Carbines. This means that they are developing content more efficiently which is not only cheaper but also gives them extra resources to develop additional content. Hence why SE give players two new dungeons and a raid in a 3month patch instead of just a new dungeon & shiphands.
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I can only guess that some people want the raid environment but not the raid difficulty? I believe Blizzards "official" reason was to show the raid content to people who are not into raiding. Whether CRB does it at all and for the same reasons as Blizz or if they have other reasons of their own, doesnt really matter to me. I'm sure that if 10man or 15man raids is something CRB wants they will make it work.  All that stuff i mentioned about making bombs smaller or keeping difficulty the same are just one of the possibilities.  They could take your whole "coordination" thing and either throw that out the door or just require less of it for a smaller version of the raid.
 
Also arent Shiphands and Adventures and all that 5man and under? so somebody is doing dungeons and wanting to do raids but they cant commit to a 20man raid schedule they should go back to 5mans? OK Got it...
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This really doesn't seem to be going anywhere productive.
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Welcome to the forums!
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Hehe, yeah I know.  Still sometimes there are ones where it appears as if there is some sort of actual communication occurring, and other times where various people, whether by nature or intent (some people are naturally stubborn, conversely it's a troll's intent to bait as long as possible), are simply talking past each other with no understanding reached.  I suppose I was just commenting that it seems we'd reached the latter.
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Back in wow I was a hardcore raider in one of the worlds top guilds Nowadays I don't raid cause I work shift work so my attendance would be horrible. 
 
So I stick to content that doesn't require a set schedule... Mainly pvp and I dont expect or demand carbine cater to me.
 
With that said... I've had many opportunities to raid in pugs and it's been fine	
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			well said vic.	
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the randomness has been nerfinated, you can add runes and reroll rune type and the number of rune slots is a set amount
PVP is still a trainwreck
still a grind I guess, if you mean dailies and dailies but there are now more ways to get amp and ability points and you can buy class amps from the renown vendor no more farming trigger figures and the like for months
no, still the same race/class combinations
 
take your 10 day free trail and try out veteran shiphands they are great
also get a new lowbie and try out the new protogames training dungeon - its awesome
or to have your face ripped off try the ultimate protogames level 50 dungeon
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Well runic flux is what 3 plat? That's prohibitively expensive to roll ONE slot that isn't even guaranteed to be useful.
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I think you should come back.
 
Drop 4 was the best drop they have done and helped to fix a lot of issues you bring up
 
Itemization is a little better now that you can pay to change rune slots
 
The attunement process for Dungeons was reduced to Bronze instead of Silver and Gold, so much of the "Gold or Bust" mentality has faded and the process is not so difficult anymore.
 
The new Daily quests for Veteran Dungeons offers incentives for people to play Veteran Dungeons
 
Veteran Shiphands were introduced for people who want to solo and still get good rewards and challenging instances
 
A new currency called "Glory" was introduced that can be earned through Veteran Dungeons and can be used to buy high level gear
 
A new 5 man Dungeon, the Protogames, was introduced and is a ton of fun and can get you some great gear rewards.
 
PVP is still a bit of a mess, but hopefully Drop 5 is going to be addressing that.
 
Overall, I think the game is definitely on the right track. A lot of other people have come back because of how good Drop 4 was. Game's gotten pretty good, and if Drop 5 is just as good as Drop 4 was, then this game will be really awesome!	
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Carbine has adopted a strategy of developing content specifically aimed at different types of players rather than trying to make one kind of content work at all levels. What I do know is that the causal players I'm around are having a blast doing shiphands and I don't hear them saying much about wanting to do raids. And the raiders are having a blast as well.
 
In fact, everyone I know in game right now seems very satisfied and happy to be playing. The only thing that seems to be missing is more people because people don't know how much fun they are missing.
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