122897-my-10-day-eval

== Content ==
			
Short Preface:  I'm writing this solely so that devs can review what brought me back, what I liked on my return, and what I didn't.  I'm not gong to get into a deep hypothetical debate about how my views are wrong or unfair, though I may spend some time reading responses out of pure curiosity.  At the end of the day I think an honest review does best ... so that's what I'm going to attempt to give.  That said, Wilstar has a lot of "thing" going on (like most MMOs), so Sorry if this eval feels scattered.Quick HistoryI joined Wild-Star during the early access and got my special costume rewards and played for the time allotted to me knowing full well that I'd be asking myself at the end of the trial if I could return to the world of monthly subs.  I was a WoW player "back in the day".  More accurately:  I played WoW from beta through Burning crusade,  my Dwarf Paladin was the most powerful tank on Destromath (highest raw health and 5 types of tanking armor to fit the need) in that I got instant invites to any RAID that needed an aoe tank for whatever reason.  Ahhh those were the days...
 
... those were the days that got me excited for Wildstar.  It's sales pitch was exactly what I was buying, and while I quit when lich king launched (I was too furious that my attunements were getting handed out for free) and thus hadn't played an MMO in a long while, Wildstar looked fun.  Oh and it was:  to this day I think the world has more character than pretty much any MMO I've played including WoW itself.  It's over the top, engaging, with tons of flashy action.  I really LIKE the personality of the world that's been created.  So why did I let my sub expire?  Two reasons actually:  UI polish and monthly sub.  Ill get into both more in a bit, but for now lets say I felt that with a few months of dev time Wildstar would solve both and I'd be happily back in the Nexus with my latest MMO obsession... but for now I would take a break and pocket the money (I already dropped $60 so it's not like they didn't make money off of me).An email with a free 10-day trial brought me back...First things first ...
First off ... 2 servers doesn't leave a good feeling when you log in.  I'm not sure why ... I never question MOBA server count or other games, but for some reason logging back in and seeing only two servers made me go "oh my ... what happened".  My characters were still there, so that's good at least, including my level 20 medic.  Names were intact ... all in all I was a happy man.  But as soon as I logged in my first objective was to go back in and _imediately_ test those things that annoyed me before ... and sadly almost none of them have been addressed (minus video performance ... which was fantastic for me this time... kudos whoever solved that FPS issue I used to have).
 
Oddly enough the first thing I tried to do:  Create an Aurin Medic.  I could have swore in the forums someone mentioned that the team would work on this eventually ... and to this day I can't understand how the Aurin race would not have medics ... and yeah ... it still irks me that I can't make one of those.  Irked me enough that while I tried to make a new character to rush the low level content so I could test things out ... I didn't even make it out of the intro area.  But it's not solely because I couldn't have a cut medic with a tail ... no the bigger issue was one I saw complained about all over the forums not only day 1 ... but to this very day ... yet has still not changed:
 
The UI still doesn't not match the action combat system.
I'll say the "t" word again:  Tera.  WIldstar is _built_ for a Terra style, mouse movement interface.  It's meant for it.  Yet it still clings to the WoW interface.  The UI 2.0 looks nice on the surface, but controlling your hero is needlessly frustrating.  Those reading yes:  I found the addon Lockdown ... I also found it requires autohotkey because the UI won't let you make all the button changes necessary for things to work ... and said autohotkey sometimes falls out of sync and forces you to reload the ahk.  But really why?  Why on earth has this change not been made yet?  All these bright telegraphs, all this work put into sprints, and rolls with fatigue cooldowns, all these champions that have been designed to be mobile so the game never feel "static".... and we still have this horrific interface with keyboard turning unless you hold down the right mouse button until your finger cramps up.  At least I have a G13 to ease the pain ... but I pity keyboard users.
 
No to remind the readers:  I'm only a lvl20 medic on the high end ... endgame added content is unavailable to me ... so from my perspective ... the perspective of a player that you lost early and are trying to get back ... it's the same game.  The classes and races are the same.  The controls are the same.  The game is ... largely untouched.  Which then drives me to the bigger topic:
 
P2P is dead and Carbine needs to figure that out before Wildstar goes belly up
Look:  Blizzard has a unicorn in WoW.  Most the people still playing are using it as a pay-per-month facebook (all my friends are on it!).  It's not that MMOs can't succeed, it's that the model doesn't work anymore.  Kind of like IT support has to start dealing with cloud offerings ... Carbine has got to realise their archaic model of P2P is competing with crowd funded microeconomy models. 
To be completely blunt I didn't think I'd be on this side of the park.  When I first read about CREDD, I thought it was a brilliant idea ... but at the time I was one of the elite few who lived and breathed WoW (again I had the best geared tank pali on one of the most populated PVP servers in all of WoW ... I was hardcore) ... so I could only think in that capacity.  But I learned something once weaned off:
 
Carbine (as well as myself) had completely underestimated the amount of quality content we can get for free.  (I was going to link the credd buisness model ... but it seems your link is broken: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/game/features/business-model/)
 
See the problem is there is ZERO reason for a casual player to spend money to experience content.  Companies like Riot with League of Legends has given us the opportunity to play a game 100% for free ... and to play new characters and experience new game content (featured game modes) regularly.  They also make north of 600 million a year selling $10 skins to that 1% of the community that wants to be a special snowflake.  MMOs like Tera do the same (content drop is significantly slower but they released a new class last year and have another due this year).  Hoping someone will pay a monthly sub leveling (getting nothing but the chance to play)... then dropping a few MORE on credd when they are high enough to buy a mount because they just don't have time to farm for gold ... that's asking alot.  If I were playing league I could play for as little or as long as I wanted ... without feeling gated ... and oddly enough I can spend money immediately if I feel like it... but ONLY when I feel like it.Alot of words for two complaints
yes, yes it is.  But they are pretty big roadblocks and come from two completely different areas of the game.  The P2P MMO business model is a dying dinosaur ... I think server count, price drops, and content slowdowns made that clear.  But in addition to that,  I see the same complaints about the UI being clunky and ill-fitting for the game a year after it's launch.  A year.  What I'm left looking at is both a game engine and business model that are both dogmatically ignoring the market has changed and game has evolved.  I played 1 day of wildstar.  One.  Until carbine is willing to actually make some real adjustments ... I dont see myself coming back.  That's a true shame ... because environmentally you've created a true gem of a game.
 	
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Just gonna leave this here https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/122548-ideas-to-improve-the-game-for-both-pve-pvp/
 
You have options for your desire to play this game with mouse lock and LMB and RMB as keybindable buttons. I share your desire to play this game with mouselock, but I also believe you and I are part of a minority, and it simply wouldn't be fair to force this on the rest of the playerbase.
 
I use combat mode, a mouse lock addons as well. It also utilizes ahk, and I have used it for long even used it in gw2 before wildstar, and I have never had it go out of sync or had any problems with it at all.	
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I despise the Tera style mouse movement interface. I find Wildstars control work just fine the way they are. As you have found there are add ons that already give you the functionality you desire
 
 
... and no, I do not keyboard turn.	
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Wtf is a "mouse movement" interface?  I have no issues with the movement in Wildstar at all.  I play it the same as any other game.  wasd and mouse turn.
 
"Keyboard turning"??  Who does that?
 
Mouse turn and WASD just like 99% of PC gamers do and you'll be fine.	
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P2P is dead and Carbine needs to figure that out before Wildstar goes belly up
Carbine has got to realise their archaic model of P2P is competing with crowd funded microeconomy models.
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Mouse turn and WASD just like 99% of PC gamers do and you'll be fine.
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P2P is dead and Carbine needs to figure that out before Wildstar goes belly up
Look:  Blizzard has a unicorn in WoW.  Most the people still playing are using it as a pay-per-month facebook (all my friends are on it!).  It's not that MMOs can't succeed, it's that the model doesn't work anymore.  Kind of like IT support has to start dealing with cloud offerings ... Carbine has got to realise their archaic model of P2P is competing with crowd funded microeconomy models.
 
To be completely blunt I didn't think I'd be on this side of the park.  When I first read about CREDD, I thought it was a brilliant idea ... but at the time I was one of the elite few who lived and breathed WoW (again I had the best geared tank pali on one of the most populated PVP servers in all of WoW ... I was hardcore) ... so I could only think in that capacity.  But I learned something once weaned off:
 
Carbine (as well as myself) had completely underestimated the amount of quality content we can get for free.  (I was going to link the credd buisness model ... but it seems your link is broken: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/game/features/business-model/)
 
See the problem is there is ZERO reason for a casual player to spend money to experience content.  Companies like Riot with League of Legends has given us the opportunity to play a game 100% for free ... and to play new characters and experience new game content (featured game modes) regularly.  They also make north of 600 million a year selling $10 skins to that 1% of the community that wants to be a special snowflake.  MMOs like Tera do the same (content drop is significantly slower but they released a new class last year and have another due this year).  Hoping someone will pay a monthly sub leveling (getting nothing but the chance to play)... then dropping a few MORE on credd when they are high enough to buy a mount because they just don't have time to farm for gold ... that's asking alot.  If I were playing league I could play for as little or as long as I wanted ... without feeling gated ... and oddly enough I can spend money immediately if I feel like it... but ONLY when I feel like it.
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So, basically you just wanted too confirm the game is not for you? If only thing you have ever done was getting too level 20 then yes, this game is too hardcore for you.
 
On a side note, it's sad you can't make aurin medic, you can't or won't use lockdown and Moba's free to play community do seem nice now don't they.
 
I'm genuinly sorry you had too waste 10 hours and the initial fee for this game but please, go play something else if you don't like it.
 
P.s. Why do 10-day trials have access to post on the forums, since I thought you needed an active sub for it.	
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So you wanted Tera's controls, Tera's UI, Tera's payment model....
 
You know, oddly, I don't have any interest in playing Tera, so I don't particularly feel I'd want to play this game if it became Tera.  The controls are a LOT better for me here considering how often I have to look around at something I'm not hitting (yet still need to be aimed at the thing I'm hitting), the UI is great for me as it is (I play with no addons), and I am really not interested in having the game turned into a strip mall for a cash shop.
 
You think it "feels wrong" to have just two servers, which I don't understand (I played on a few dead servers in WoW in my day; I certainly didn't feel like they added to the experience).  You think there's a lot of quality content we can get for free (having played a few F2P games in my time, I disagree).  And you've based this all on an experience that didn't go past level 20.
 
Not all critical response is cut from the same cloth.  I don't find this very useful, as it seems aimed at several things I actually LOVE about the game, which you'd like replaced by elements of a game I absolutely did not like.	
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Really, another person who thinks f2p is the way to go. I'm not sure why this whole thing came about but anyone who knows anything about f2p can see that it is in no way better than a sub model. Take for instance your example, LoL. In LoL you *can* play for free. 100% free. However in doing so it will take you 3-5 times longer then most people to get to the same point and you will do so with much less than others. In order to buy a character you either a) pay RL money or b) go and play about 100+ matches. To unlock a skin, same thing, some have to even be bought with RL cash. But both of those aren't needed really. They are things you can get going up to 30. So what about runes/rune pages? Those things you basically must have at 30. Yea you can once again farm them in casual modes but it would take months to do so. Instead you spend more RL money to get them instantly so you can set up and start playing some ranked where the fun of the game is. 
 
I can go on and on citing examples of how f2p is never cheaper and in some ways even worse, hello p2w games, and even how the f2p model generally ends up having dumb shit like lockboxes u have to spend money to buy keys for and in some cases (looking at you LOTRO) you have to buy mount training with RL cash. It's never a good thing to go f2p. Stop the foolishness and stop to look at things before you think 'oh well i dont pay a sub so its free' because it never is	
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I'm a casual that's finding plenty to do.  I've never bought CREDD, not even to use it to get a mount(and because I have 2step I have a free one, bought deluxe so I have a free hoverboard).  If I want to be a "special snowflake", I'd rather have the means to do it in-game because of a sub, not crack open my wallet every time I want to change my look(which I do often).  I'd rather pay for myself, and only myself, thank you very much. 
 
The race/class issue, they're working on it, and while I'm impatient for it I can wait :P	
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Personally while I would tinker with a fixed camera lock with a mouse free button (a la Smite) I don't think I'd actually use it much for content other than maybe tinkering.  It is far too valuable to be able to swing the camera around to a rear facing and see what's behind me (X-89 Shatter aiming, Convergence waves, Prototype waves, etc etc... the list is pretty endless on what I need to know is behind me and even a maxed out camera distance doesn't show enough.).
 
A single keypress rear view mirror would be really great honestly :).  We have vehicles today that have rear facing cameras for backing out.  Why doesn't my engineer heavy armor have one of those?!  You know how hard it is to twist around in all that metal?? :-)	
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Personally while I would tinker with a fixed camera lock with a mouse free button (a la Smite) I don't think I'd actually use it much for content other than maybe tinkering.  It is far too valuable to be able to swing the camera around to a rear facing and see what's behind me (X-89 Shatter aiming, Convergence waves, Prototype waves, etc etc... the list is pretty endless on what I need to know is behind me and even a maxed out camera distance doesn't show enough.).
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As someone who played TERA for quite some time, I can assure you that one is fully capable of continuing in one direction while looking in another with its style of camera control. The key is not using tank controls.
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... WoW.  Most the people still playing are using it as a pay-per-month facebook (all my friends are on it!).
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I despise the Tera style mouse movement interface. I find Wildstars control work just fine the way they are. As you have found there are add ons that already give you the functionality you desire
 
 
... and no, I do not keyboard turn.
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I agree with the need for native mouse-lock functionality, with all of the options for toggle and hold for lock/unlock mouse and free look, in addition to optional permanent targeters.  Not only for increased ease of use, but for the ability to introduce more interesting skills in the future.  I look at Smite for idea controls and interesting free-form skills for this style of combat. Of course, Espers would need to shift to completely free-form for this transition (for the most part they already are).
 
 
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Personally while I would tinker with a fixed camera lock with a mouse free button (a la Smite) I don't think I'd actually use it much for content other than maybe tinkering.  It is far too valuable to be able to swing the camera around to a rear facing and see what's behind me (X-89 Shatter aiming, Convergence waves, Prototype waves, etc etc... the list is pretty endless on what I need to know is behind me and even a maxed out camera distance doesn't show enough.).
 
A single keypress rear view mirror would be really great honestly :).  We have vehicles today that have rear facing cameras for backing out.  Why doesn't my engineer heavy armor have one of those?!  You know how hard it is to twist around in all that metal?? :-)
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They are okay but for long play runs i really wish they enable a feature to "lock" your mouse when you press the right mouse button once and unlock it when you click it again.
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As long as it's an optional feature, I don't really mind.  But mouse-locking would infuriate me.  There are fights when I spend more time than not looking around at other things, players, and elements.
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I really just don't understand this concern. I mained a warrior tank in TERA and was always needing to be aware of the position of my teammates so I could properly position bosses, but TERA's controls never got in the way of that even once. Likewise with my SO's experience on his priest.
 
Now, sometimes the size of the boss blocked my view, but that would be the case regardless of camera controls. :P
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I too am a returning player. I have always been fond of this game. I love the art style, how it can be wacky sometimes. Add a anvil from the sky and you got loony tunes. lol jk.
 
I do want to say thank you about the tip about the mouse lock. I enjoy locking my mouse even on GW2.
 
Anywho, I am going to comment about the pay 2 play is dead. Even RIFT tho it has gone free to play still has it's core members voluntarily subbing. Since day 1 they have been. It's optional yes, but they love the game enough to do it. I am more then happy to that for this game.
 
I know we have people that say this game should go buy to play, or free to play. I am fine the way it is, others are too. I do have to say tho that the fact that others are not fine with that, shows there are people who want to play this without paying a sub. I know a few myself. The people I know are just in a place right now where they may not have the ability to play because of it. 
 
I am for keeping wildstar the way it is now. Whatever the devs do, I like this game so much I would also keep paying a sub no matter what.	
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I too am a returning player. I have always been fond of this game. I love the art style, how it can be wacky sometimes. Add Avila falling from the sky and you got loony tunes. lol jk.
 
I do want to thank about the tip about the mouse lock. I enjoy locking my mouse even on GW2.
 
Anywho, I am going to comment about the pay 2 play is dead. Even RIFT tho it has gone free to play still has it's core members voluntarily subbing. Since day 1 they have been. It's optional yes, but they love the game enough to do it. I am more then happy to that for this game.
 
I know we have people that say this game should go buy to play, or free to play. I am fine the way it is, others are too. I do have to say tho that the fact that others are not fine with that, shows there are people who want to play this without paying a sub. I know a few myself. The people I know are just in a place right now where they may not have the ability to play because of it.
 
I am for keeping wildstar the way it is now. Whatever the devs do, I like this game so much I would also keep paying a sub no matter what.
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stuff
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Thanks for taking the time for the review, OP. I dabbled in Tera for a while and never really got into it, but their interface did seem smooth to me--moreso than here, so I'll agree with your general comparison but in honesty it's just not that big a deal to me personally to learn the interface in a new game. Having the option to use the same form of control would be nice, but a mandatory switch seems like it'd be a mistake.
 
As for the game's business model, the game has quietly been introducing elements of F2P games for quite some time and the latest one is the inclusion in Drop 4 of a gamblebox for items that can be bought through a simple chain of cash-->plat-->partial primal patterns. According to some on these forums, this is now a way to obtain legendary gear without raiding, and if those reports are true then the only real difference between this and B2P left is that this game actually demands tribute in plat from its players even after the box purchase--and the box price has been steadily dropping for awhile.
 
So they're headed that way, pretty clearly. But they haven't quite made the jump yet.	
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Thanks for taking the time for the review, OP. I dabbled in Tera for a while and never really got into it, but their interface did seem smooth to me--moreso than here, so I'll agree with your general comparison but in honesty it's just not that big a deal to me personally to learn the interface in a new game. Having the option to use the same form of control would be nice, but a mandatory switch seems like it'd be a mistake.
 
As for the game's business model, the game has quietly been introducing elements of F2P games for quite some time and the latest one is the inclusion in Drop 4 of a gamblebox for items that can be bought through a simple chain of cash-->plat-->partial primal patterns. According to some on these forums, this is now a way to obtain legendary gear without raiding, and if those reports are true then the only real difference between this and B2P left is that this game actually demands tribute in plat from its players even after the box purchase--and the box price has been steadily dropping for awhile.
 
So they're headed that way, pretty clearly. But they haven't quite made the jump yet.
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But... I was able to do all of that very effectively in TERA. o.0 WildStar is not unique in positional awareness. All that explanation is stuff I already know about, know how to do, and did frequently in TERA as a tank.
 
Non-mouselocked camera works well in tab-target MMOs, because you never need to worry about what direction you're facing, but when I'm healing on my esper... God, my middle finger gets really tired. @.@
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 It's completely bass-ackwards with what I have to do.
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I think that's what you're missing here.  In this game, especially as a warrior, I absolutely need to worry about what's happening all the time in directions I'm not facing.  I literally tank without often looking at the thing I'm actually swinging at.  They make addons for mouselocking the camera, but it definitely isn't something I'd ever consider using.  Why would I want to lock the camera to my mouse when I maybe spend 5-10% of my time actually needing the camera locked to my mouse, and the remaining 90-95% of the time I'd be having to unlock the camera just to function normally?  It's completely bass-ackwards with what I have to do.
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You play as a tank, where aiming of abilities is less of a concern and you pan your view for awareness the majority of the time.  As a healer, if I didn't have Lockdown I would be holding the RMB down 95% of the time since I am constantly re-adjusting my aim because of player movement.  At least when I am dpsing, I find mouselock is used more often than looking around, as the looking around requirement is much more fight specific.  So we certainly have very different requirements, but the options for control should be built in and not relegated to add-ons.
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As for the game's business model, the game has quietly been introducing elements of F2P games for quite some time and the latest one is the inclusion in Drop 4 of a gamblebox for items that can be bought through a simple chain of cash-->plat-->partial primal patterns. According to some on these forums, this is now a way to obtain legendary gear without raiding, and if those reports are true then the only real difference between this and B2P left is that this game actually demands tribute in plat from its players even after the box purchase--and the box price has been steadily dropping for awhile.
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Well this is unsettling. @.@
 
 
But I'm not missing anything. I've explained repeatedly that it is perfectly 100% possible to look around with mouselocked TERA-style controls without changing where your character is facing. I did it all the time when playing that game. Yet you keep telling me it's some impossible thing.
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			and what can you get from these "gamble box" that can be traded for primal patterns ? i have not open one yet.	
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P2P is dead and Carbine needs to figure that out before Wildstar goes belly up
Look:  Blizzard has a unicorn in WoW.  Most the people still playing are using it as a pay-per-month facebook (all my friends are on it!).  It's not that MMOs can't succeed, it's that the model doesn't work anymore.  Kind of like IT support has to start dealing with cloud offerings ... Carbine has got to realise their archaic model of P2P is competing with crowd funded microeconomy models.
 
To be completely blunt I didn't think I'd be on this side of the park.  When I first read about CREDD, I thought it was a brilliant idea ... but at the time I was one of the elite few who lived and breathed WoW (again I had the best geared tank pali on one of the most populated PVP servers in all of WoW ... I was hardcore) ... so I could only think in that capacity.  But I learned something once weaned off:
 
Carbine (as well as myself) had completely underestimated the amount of quality content we can get for free.  (I was going to link the credd buisness model ... but it seems your link is broken: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/game/features/business-model/)
 
See the problem is there is ZERO reason for a casual player to spend money to experience content.  Companies like Riot with League of Legends has given us the opportunity to play a game 100% for free ... and to play new characters and experience new game content (featured game modes) regularly.  They also make north of 600 million a year selling $10 skins to that 1% of the community that wants to be a special snowflake.  MMOs like Tera do the same (content drop is significantly slower but they released a new class last year and have another due this year).  Hoping someone will pay a monthly sub leveling (getting nothing but the chance to play)... then dropping a few MORE on credd when they are high enough to buy a mount because they just don't have time to farm for gold ... that's asking alot.  If I were playing league I could play for as little or as long as I wanted ... without feeling gated ... and oddly enough I can spend money immediately if I feel like it... but ONLY when I feel like it.
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Actually the model does work quite well.  It is the mmo community who is just blinded by the words "free to play".  You should check out some of the f2p forums and see the complaining.  SW:ToR is a great example.  People complaining a lot about lack of content, bug fixes, things promised to them that won't happen since switching f2p, and the list goes on.  What is also funny is I bet a lot of those who complain about a monthly sub, put in a lot more a month on the cash shop and things that normally would be included on a sub based game.  The quality of the games drop a lot because they don't put the time in to fix things as much and focus on cash shop stuff. 
 
If you prefer pvp then have even more fun with f2p pvp.  Classes get so imbalanced at times that it takes awhile before they fix it.
 
The biggest problem is companies are spending a ton of money for an mmo and trying too hard to replicate other mmo's instead making it their own.  Yes definitely take some things that work from other mmo's but tweak them a bit.
 
Why people simply can't or don't want to pay $15 a month for a lot better quality game along with faster content is beyond me.  If you can't afford the $15 then there are other issues you should be worrying about and not gaming.  I know times can be hard, but video games are a hobby.  Hobbies cost money.  There are plenty of other free games to play out there.
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Actually the model does work quite well.  It is the mmo community who is just blinded by the words "free to play".  You should check out some of the f2p forums and see the complaining.  SW:ToR is a great example.  People complaining a lot about lack of content, bug fixes, things promised to them that won't happen since switching f2p, and the list goes on.  What is also funny is I bet a lot of those who complain about a monthly sub, put in a lot more a month on the cash shop and things that normally would be included on a sub based game.  The quality of the games drop a lot because they don't put the time in to fix things as much and focus on cash shop stuff. 
 
If you prefer pvp then have even more fun with f2p pvp.  Classes get so imbalanced at times that it takes awhile before they fix it.
 
The biggest problem is companies are spending a ton of money for an mmo and trying too hard to replicate other mmo's instead making it their own.  Yes definitely take some things that work from other mmo's but tweak them a bit.
 
Why people simply can't or don't want to pay $15 a month for a lot better quality game along with faster content is beyond me.  If you can't afford the $15 then there are other issues you should be worrying about and not gaming.  I know times can be hard, but video games are a hobby.  Hobbies cost money.  There are plenty of other free games to play out there.
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Anywho, I am going to comment about the pay 2 play is dead. Even RIFT tho it has gone free to play still has it's core members voluntarily subbing. Since day 1 they have been. It's optional yes, but they love the game enough to do it. I am more then happy to that for this game.
 
 
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15$ for 1 game is not too bad. but if you play more than one game?
i am quite happy that gw2 and eso are b2p.
i personally wouldn't pay 2 subs. so this situation is bad for sub games. but maybe thats just me.
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I played Rift from release so I guess I would be a core member but I played that game less and less when it went free2play and at this stage have not log in for probably close to a year. I loved Rift and my Rift mage is still my favourite character in any MMO I have played. I will still never play that game again. I would do the same with Wildstar if they turned the game into a free2play mall. Rift did get a lot of new players when it went free2play, it also lost a lot of its older players.
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and what can you get from these "gamble box" that can be traded for primal patterns ? i have not open one yet.
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And right now, you can go to Battle.net and purchase an in-game mount for 20 dollars.  If you do the EMP point translation, you can purchase an exclusive mount in Tera for 20 dollars.  Ever wonder where their money comes from?  Gouging the player and telling them they can play for "free".  Nothing's free, someone's paying and the rest aren't getting what they need.  
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and the world goes on.
different faces, same pockets.
 
maybe, just "maybe" that ONLY keeping players that like the sub model is NOT ENOUGH MONEY for a game to stay afloat (or profitable enough not to be put on the chopping block) ?
if Rift changed... its because it had too.
same goes for Swtor, same goes for Eso.
Then there is FF14, the odd one. Seems like the sub is working over there...
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and the world goes on.
different faces, same pockets.
 
maybe, just "maybe" that ONLY keeping players that like the sub model is NOT ENOUGH MONEY for a game to stay afloat (or profitable enough not to be put on the chopping block) ?
if Rift changed... its because it had too.
same goes for Swtor, same goes for Eso.
Then there is FF14, the odd one. Seems like the sub is working over there...
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Subs do work.  EVE Online is really the game Wildstar sits in the same hot tub with.  They're a subscription game that has fought for ten years to get up to 500k subscribers.  
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Not saying the world doesn't go on, the person I quoted was of the opinion that the long term players stay regardless of model, that is not necessarily the case. I 100% agree that F2play is in Wildstars future but there will be a different player base and a few die hards to stick around and talk about the good ol days
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{| class="blockquote"
and the world goes on.
different faces, same pockets.
 
maybe, just "maybe" that ONLY keeping players that like the sub model is NOT ENOUGH MONEY for a game to stay afloat (or profitable enough not to be put on the chopping block) ?
if Rift changed... its because it had too.
same goes for Swtor, same goes for Eso.
Then there is FF14, the odd one. Seems like the sub is working over there...
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While I agree with you that this is true, I'm not sure that NCSoft views it as quite the strength for Wildstar that you do.
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aside from whatever arenanet does.
because, arenanet are smart game designers.
 
another wow clone? ncsoft should have known better :/	
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aside from whatever arenanet does.
because, arenanet are smart game designers.
 
another wow clone? ncsoft should have known better :/
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i am certain that anet devs are not chilling out in cali working short hours and enjoying beaches.
 
but hey... gw2 is a really nice evolution of the genre. cant deny they did a great work and have great thinkers on board.	
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i am certain that anet devs are not chilling out in cali working short hours and enjoying beaches.
 
but hey... gw2 is a really nice evolution of the genre. cant deny they did a great work and have great thinkers on board.
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			I know everyone thinks negatively of the FTP model but I was with Aion when this happened and everyone was freaking out about how terrible it was going to be and it was all hype.  Nothing bad happened at all.  The game got a lot better and the population increased drastically.  You could still pay/subscribe if you wanted to and reap some additional benefits but free players still had the original game experience.  Nothing was taken away and you still could not pay to win.  You could only buy mounts, costumes, pots, and other stupid stuff on cash store.  Nothing of real winning value.	
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Really, another person who thinks f2p is the way to go. I'm not sure why this whole thing came about but anyone who knows anything about f2p can see that it is in no way better than a sub model. Take for instance your example, LoL. In LoL you *can* play for free. 100% free. However in doing so it will take you 3-5 times longer then most people to get to the same point and you will do so with much less than others. In order to buy a character you either a) pay RL money or B) go and play about 100+ matches. To unlock a skin, same thing, some have to even be bought with RL cash. But both of those aren't needed really. They are things you can get going up to 30. So what about runes/rune pages? Those things you basically must have at 30. Yea you can once again farm them in casual modes but it would take months to do so. Instead you spend more RL money to get them instantly so you can set up and start playing some ranked where the fun of the game is. 
 
I can go on and on citing examples of how f2p is never cheaper and in some ways even worse, hello p2w games, and even how the f2p model generally ends up having dumb shit like lockboxes u have to spend money to buy keys for and in some cases (looking at you LOTRO) you have to buy mount training with RL cash. It's never a good thing to go f2p. Stop the foolishness and stop to look at things before you think 'oh well i dont pay a sub so its free' because it never is
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I think at this point, it's pretty clear that NCSoft doesn't view any game in the Western market like its playerbase does.
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but hey... gw2 is a really nice evolution of the genre. cant deny they did a great work and have great thinkers on board.
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I would argue that it's not the payment model that's the problem, but rather the quality of the game. It is reasonable to assume that people will not be willing to pay a sub for a subpar game. Rift was a great game, but didn't offer enough to distinguish itself from WoW, which was at its peak at the time of Rift's release, so it's no wonder Rift wasn't able to maintain subs (though I personally stayed subbed the entire time, even when I was playing WoW, just on principal of wanting to financially support a game whose business tactics and development pace I approved of.) SWTOR and ESO were just... not very good games, for a variety of reasons. TERA suffered from the Korean shovelware strategy. FFXIV has managed to maintain its sub model in some part due to the Final Fantasy name but in large part thanks to its very solid game design.
 
If a game is good enough, people will spend money on it.
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This game is EASILY $15 good.
 
But that doesn't mean it will survive (I'm not saying it won't- I think it will). Lots of great products that were worth it to people have failed because of lack of awareness, poor impressions, or any number of other reasons.
 
I only wish the way the world worked was that the best products always won.	
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15/month:
was drop 4 worth 45$?
it is relative. i know.
 
15/month:
is the "standard price" for an AAA premium experience.
wildstar is more like a B+ in term of sheer scale and depth.
add to that that they need to unplug all servers every week for about 5 hours makes it sound like the thing is holding up with duct tape.
consider that gw2 have basically 0 downtime and will simply ask you to "relog".
 
15/month:
no queues pop. not enough players for the content (pve pug and pvp) to get played.
low level ? even worst.
 
so basically, wildstar is VERY expensive and restricted. unless you are an absolute fan (like us here) then i totally can understand why it currently have the numbers it have.
 
do you see that turning around ? all of a sudden making wildstar more repayable with alts, bringing new blood for low level content activities, make a fluid endgame that any type of player can enjoy, that pvp can be fair and fun ?
 
there is a reason they have not done a huge marketing push with drop 4 and prefer words of mouth. 
the game is not there yet. it is missing some key elements to make it all gel together.	
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the game is not there yet. it is missing some key elements to make it all gel together.
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Errors? Glitches? I didn't notice any of that when playing PvE. Even in weekend beta. I heard PvP was where wildstar had the most problems.
 
ESO is going free soon, it launched a few months before Wildstar. I am sure they are freaking out now. Wondering what new changes will come. What will make them want to keep going or stop.
 
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. 
 
Nothing terrifies us more then the unknown.	
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If NCSoft wants to hang with some of the most respected names in gaming with Wildstar, they need Carbine to pump out pure quality.  Drop 4 quality has to be the norm, not an exception.  We need Drop 5 to be just as great.  We'll probably need Drop 6 to be just as great.  After that, I think the narrative will have changed, but they need to consistently be better than their competition for a while before everyone says they are better than their competition.
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That right there sums up my feelings on the matter. I was PUMPED for the Defile drop but I chewed right through it in just a few days. There was no real staying power behind it. Sure, it looked good, the story was good, but the game play itself was kinda meh. Lets be honest. Once you go through it its little more than another daily zone. The positive note on that drop was the revamping of the rune system. That's the highlight of that one for me.
 
The last drop was much better. It overhauled things that desperately needed attention. One Example: Before this drop, I probably would have never stepped foot in some of those shiphands again. That's a shame because they were good but what did they offer? Not much to most people. At least not to a max level toon anyway. Now I run them all the time because they are worth doing. The rewards aren't amazing, and I don't expect them to be, but the time/difficulty ratio seems fair to me. An exception is the mounts. I'm still surprised you can get 2 nice mounts by running them. That was definitely a welcome surprise.
 
Just my two cents,
JoS
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the defile was the last blow that drove wildstar in the graveyard.
since then... it is slowly but surely getting better.
and yeah, drop 5 needs to be as awesome and replayable as drop 4.
if they pull another "defile" out of their pockets i am afraid it'll be time for the mortalus...
 
i am confident though. i think i am...
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the defile was the last blow that drove wildstar in the graveyard.
since then... it is slowly but surely getting better.
and yeah, drop 5 needs to be as awesome and replayable as drop 4.
if they pull another "defile" out of their pockets i am afraid it'll be time for the mortalus...
 
i am confident though. i think i am...
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I think that, despite the moderate uproar at the time, switching from monthly to quarterly drops was a good move.
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I think that, despite the moderate uproar at the time, switching from monthly to quarterly drops was a good move.
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quarterly is good.
but it depends on the QUALITY and INTELLIGENCE of the design.
 
the Defile was a little bit of a continuity of their bad design philosophy: 
the prime example here is "omnicore-1". what a waste of resources... and the defile "daily zone" was not super fun to be honest.
 
drop 4 is smarter, even if not as big on raw content as drop 3 was.
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Hey, I love Omnicore!  It's the one thing I'm making time to do!  And I hate Belle Walker's voice with a notorious passion, so Omnicore had to come a long way in content to make up for that.
 
It's like the way Drop 5 will be predominantly PVP.  I don't personally enjoy PVP that much anymore; I get kind of bored of it after a while (it may be having had so much of it in my previous gaming).  I in no way, shape, or form feel like the upcoming PVP changes are a waste of resources just because it's not aimed at me in particular.
 
Also, I'm ambivalent to the dailies in Defile, except that I love the Lightspire stuff and I take every chance I can get to run the Black Focus stuff for people.
 
Carbine has to throw the net wide.  Drop 3 was full of content I really enjoy personally.
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vic, since i started reading your comments i came to realize you are the minority. i don't have numbers to prove it, but i am almost certain..
i would be curious to see the numbers on how many time people do "omnicore" in the last month.
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vic, since i started reading your comments i came to realize you are the minority. i don't have numbers to prove it, but i am almost certain..
i would be curious to see the numbers on how many time people do "omnicore" in the last month.
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Depends on how minimal you want to get.  Some people simply started doing veteran shiphands instead, some are still doing Omnicore pretty commonly (myself included), some people never did either of these things and hate all things associated with solo PVE.  I don't feel any of those is a majority nor is any of them a small minority.  Omnicore is full of interesting fights and paths to take, and it's certainly not wasted content.
 
It's important not to look at things you don't like and self-project onto them.  If you don't like Omnicore, that's fine.  Just don't do it (or don't do it anymore).  But the second I can skip Belle Walker talking (which is an upcoming change), I'll like Omnicore better than all the vet shiphands solo.  That last boss fight can be trivialized by gear, but at-level and in fresh gear, it's not a joke.
 
Plus, the darkroom is win. :D
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true that gear fcks up everything.
a scaling mechanic a la gw2 could go a long way in making the content relevant longer.
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{| class="blockquote"
vic, since i started reading your comments i came to realize you are the minority. i don't have numbers to prove it, but i am almost certain..
i would be curious to see the numbers on how many time people do "omnicore" in the last month.
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Omnicore-1 isn't awful.  There are elements about it that I dislike.  My major complaint is that it's too long.  I know there are some 'leet geared people that can roflstomp it in no time but last time I ran it it took me about an hour.  All for a mere 10 off cap EG.  If it was just the end-boss fight I'd bother but as it stands now, just not worth the effort.
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I wonder how much faster it will be when you can skip the dialogue scenes.  I totally agree with that being a problem.  Even if Belle Walker's voice isn't nails on a chalkboard to you, her chatter is both annoying and un-skippable currently.  If she didn't talk or if I didn't have to wait for her to finish talking, thus could go from scene to scene without stopping to hear how the Datascape team is doing, I can't imagine it would take more than half an hour.
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Hrm... how much time am I willing to put into an extra 10EG...
 
The improved and improving availability of Ability and AMP Tier point unlocks is taking a lot of pressure off the need to gather Elder Gems.  And the functional gear that used to be on that vendor was (rightfully) moved elsewhere.  What's left are the LAS3 and LAS4 unlocks and a variety of cosmetic items.  Before the weeklies there was some value to the award so you could buy your Genesis Key before having to wait for reset day.
 
It takes me about 2.5-3 hours each week to cap my EG running NW and CB dailies.  I also pick the PvE missions weekly which tends to complete about the same time I hit the 140 cap.  That's 180EG for 180 minutes worst case.  I'll be generous, if I can't do OC-1 in 15 minutes I'm not really interested. 
 
Most Vet Shiphands can be run in 15-20 minutes, yield a bunch of renown and drop bags with some pretty neat stuff (decor, AMPs, runes, mounts) and you're not forced to solo them.  Admittedly I haven't been in OC-1 since long before Drop 4, did they update the payout?  If not, other than the off cap EG it pales in comparison to VSH.
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Most Vet Shiphands can be run in 15-20 minutes, yield a bunch of renown and drop bags with some pretty neat stuff (decor, AMPs, runes, mounts) and you're not forced to solo them.  Admittedly I haven't been in OC-1 since long before Drop 4, did they update the payout?  If not, other than the off cap EG it pales in comparison to VSH.
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According to NCSoft Wildstar is sticking around and the B2P + CREDD model is staying.
 
If you can't afford the $40 box cost get a job.
If you can't afford the CREDD get off your butt and do dailies and content. If you server doesn't have much Credd for sale make an alt and transfer some plat to it to buy from another server.
 
f2p will only ruin the game with a cash shop and even slower content updates. That model is the ultimate scumbag scam market where Developers push out content solely for the purpose of making people buy it and not for the actual entertainment or QoL value. That's how f2p works. It's not about the game anymore, it's about milking money out of the playerbase with things like gambling, content gated behind DLC, and delaying new content for the game INDEFINITELY in order to produce nothing but skins.	
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It takes me about 2.5-3 hours each week to cap my EG running NW and CB dailies.  I also pick the PvE missions weekly which tends to complete about the same time I hit the 140 cap.  That's 180EG for 180 minutes worst case.  I'll be generous, if I can't do OC-1 in 15 minutes I'm not really interested. 
 
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Is this with or without the resting XP bonus? I ask because it seems in line with how I capped my EG last week, though I must admit I only ran NW once per day...and filled the bar by about 20%. Without it, it took me much, much longer and I had to throw CB quests in to barely reach that. But then I'm an extremely slow player.
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