120942-biggest-problem-im-seeing-with-wildstar

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The lack of low level players. Waiting hours in que for dungeons and hours ( if you are lucky ) for pvp ques. I have been back roughly a week or 2 and I have yet to get a pvp que. Just thinking this might be a huge deterrent for new players. Ya ya get a guild blah blah blah but it still doesn't negate the fact that there really is no low level player base to level up with. So what will happen at level 50? I get into a dungeon group and be removed because I have not done an adequate amount of dungeon running to even know what the hell is going on?  
 
Severely frustrated at this point. Just venting.	
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The lack of low level players. Waiting hours in que for dungeons and hours ( if you are lucky ) for pvp ques. I have been back roughly a week or 2 and I have yet to get a pvp que. Just thinking this might be a huge deterrent for new players. Ya ya get a guild blah blah blah but it still doesn't negate the fact that there really is no low level player base to level up with. So what will happen at level 50? I get into a dungeon group and be removed because I have not done an adequate amount of dungeon running to even know what the hell is going on?  
 
Severely frustrated at this point. Just venting.
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			Just spent an hour and a half in a que as tank. I left. No point in waiting hours.. Like I said im just frustrated	
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Just spent an hour and a half in a que as tank. I left. No point in waiting hours.. Like I said im just frustrated
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Well if they slow leveling down a bit maybe there will be people around. 2 Choices.
 
1. Level by yourself and hope maybe someone else will que up for a dungeon before you out level it.
2. Find a friend and level together. If you pick a offspec tank\healer combo your chance of getting into a dungeon goes up by alot.	
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			hmm i'm lvl 31 and when i que as tank its intsa-pop	
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Decided to try out Warhound and see what it was like to PVP to lvl up.
Epic Fail.
Battled spiders spinning webs in many corners of the map, dodged tumbleweeds and stayed in queue (and stayed in queue...)
Tried some low lvl 2-3 man boss qsts (but only found 1 other willing to pty up - rest were solo or no-go)
Back on Entity now.
Maybe when I'm higher lvl, i'll give Warhound another try.
 
How do ppl lvl up there? 	
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If you want to do group content, especially while leveling, your absolute best option is to join a guild that will go and do it with you.
 
There are a large number of players who simply do not queue, period.  They rely on their guilds, circles, and friends instead.  This isn't to say that PUGs don't happen through the queue but they are *very* hit-or-miss, especially depending on what you're queuing for, what class you are, and when you do it.
 
Until we get an incentive to queue or an alternate LFG system that allows people to find each other with less uncertainty about what the finished group is going to be like (or both), your best option is to be in a guild.
 
Tips on finding a good one here.	
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How do ppl lvl up there? 
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Most people aren't aware the reason why there aren't a lot of low level players is because the game is designed to be leveled quickly so no one is low level or even sub max level for very long.
 
You can't expect low level players in an MMORPG that caters to the mentality of "get max level then the game begins"	
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Most people aren't aware the reason why there aren't a lot of low level players is because the game is designed to be leveled quickly so no one is low level or even sub max level for very long.
 
You can't expect low level players in an MMORPG that caters to the mentality of "get max level then the game begins"
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Most people aren't aware the reason why there aren't a lot of low level players is because the game is designed to be leveled quickly so no one is low level or even sub max level for very long.
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FFXIV is one of the easiest games to level in I've ever played and yet its low-level content is always bustling because the game actually encourages max level characters to run it. WS could learn from that. >_<
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Could also learn from that what a real quarterly drop looks like. Game is just barely twice as old is this one and their 4 previously quarterly drops had more content (as in new content, ie dungeons, raids, main story quests, etc) in 1 of their quarterly drops then this game has had in all of their drops combined. Don't believe me? Lets look at drop 5 for FFXIV for the preview put out today:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3hGDaDZqI
 
Every one of their drops has had content on this scale. Google or wiki it.
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They have pieces from the old game they can revamp into new content.
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Join a guild or circle, ask the level 50 members to mentor down to your level and do the dungeon with you. Easy peasy. I do it all the time with the newer members of our Guild to get them gear and levels. You just have to find a group of people willing to do that stuff, and I'm sure plenty are, because you still get money and elder gems if you mentor down.
 
The mentor system in this game means if you meet people in person it doesn't matter what level you are, you can all do the same low-level content together on somewhat even footing. Just go out there and be social (It's a massively MULTIplayer game) instead of sitting in queue for a pug.	
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Also CRB could fix this very easily. Just give a cupcake for 50 levels as incentive to run lowbie pvp and pve stuff. Like daily quest with new boombox or call it Protostar supply crate, which can give you a shinie housing stuff, a 25-50-100 elder gems, or 500 pvp currency, or whatever can be useful.. Make loot table really interesting, make people interested to run low level stuff (like mentoring).
But this is not all. To make it more hardcore (and in case of pvp more fair), change 50 gear and skill. For example, a level 50 ques for lowbie pvp/pve. We have 3-4 real low level guys, so we can calculate average stats. Equalize this level 50 stats to same level. Also we should limit his ability points to new level, so people wont have T8 skills among level 6-14 players.
Well, game designers can work this out to be more interesting. But result will be great: if people, who trying this game out, will find that average queue time for lowbie pvp/pve do not exceed 5-10 minutes, we gonna have a lot more new (and altoholics) players, which is beneficial for both player base and CRB itself.	
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FFXIV is one of the easiest games to level in I've ever played and yet its low-level content is always bustling because the game actually encourages max level characters to run it. WS could learn from that. >_<
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ill give you a tip:
 
RUSH to max level.
all the fun is there now.
 
90% of all the game content is empty, dead and you can blame it on design: not alt friendly, no level scaling, no reason to go back, not that fun, not imerssive, cheap quests and random thematic zone design that don't feel like a world at all etc etc.
you should be able to rush to max level pretty quickly and honestly you are not missing much as the levelling game is average at best. nothing like eso (imerssion) or gw2 (zone design, scope) or even swotr (story).
 
save yourself the frustration! rush to endgame and join the fun :D	
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If we wanted a tab target stand still combat wizard and warriors mmo none of us would be here. What SE does with there game has nothing to do with wildstar so i fail to see what youre trying to show. That game has been in development for 6 years and had a major major overhaul. They have pieces from the old game they can revamp into new content.
As for the OP I think the new system will help but not a crazy amount. But with the new protostar solo dungeon you should at least be dungeon ready by the time you hit cap and get to run them at will. As other have said join a guild. Its a rare night that I dont do a dungeon or adventure with my guildies and im a lvl 45 dps :)
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The lack of low level players. Waiting hours in que for dungeons and hours ( if you are lucky ) for pvp ques. I have been back roughly a week or 2 and I have yet to get a pvp que. Just thinking this might be a huge deterrent for new players. Ya ya get a guild blah blah blah but it still doesn't negate the fact that there really is no low level player base to level up with. So what will happen at level 50? I get into a dungeon group and be removed because I have not done an adequate amount of dungeon running to even know what the hell is going on?  
 
Severely frustrated at this point. Just venting.
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ill give you a tip:
 
RUSH to max level.
all the fun is there now.
 
90% of all the game content is empty, dead and you can blame it on design: not alt friendly, no level scaling, no reason to go back, not that fun, not imerssive, cheap quests and random thematic zone design that don't feel like a world at all etc etc.
you should be able to rush to max level pretty quickly and honestly you are not missing much as the levelling game is average at best. nothing like eso (imerssion) or gw2 (zone design, scope) or even swotr (story).
 
save yourself the frustration! rush to endgame and join the fun :D
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			Edit: wrong thread	
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No, they should add more leveling content and slow leveling down, why does everyone want rush to max level? 
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Alright, so I did not think this thread would explode, while I still think the lowbie dungeons are too frustrating no matter what arguement gets thrown at me, its a level 20 dungeon give me a break. I have decided to keep playing at least until the end of my current sub. in hope I enjoy the rest of the game, which I am.. just avoiding dungeons for now. I've found a small guild who's helping me with intel and giving me motivation to keep going, haha.
 
On a side note to re-evaluate my statement for the 2nd time because I don't think I explainced well enough, when I said "catering to hardcore guilds", it seems like dungeons are build around that atmosphere to be able to complete it. Where you have voice communications, people know eachother and their playstyles, they've played together a while in their guilds. They can get through these horrific dungeons a lot easier for that being - but when your a normal single player(which there are very many, or were many.) joining an MMO using the group finder feature, you in for one hell of a ride. I hope you understand now.
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The problem is that there ARE lower level people playing.  However, almost all are specced for DPS, so they stack the queue full of people who can't run together.  And then there are people like me.  I play a lot of alts, but I never queue.  I can put together a premade from guildies, friends, and allies, so I avoid PUGs.  Maybe with the glory currency, it will become more common for people to run PUGs.  However, I doubt it's the lack of the leveling population.  There are a lot of people who simply don't have any inclination to queue.
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Actually, if that's the way the queue system is designed, then the problem is in the queue system and will never go away until the queue system is sensible.
 
Every person who enters a dungeon can fill more than one role. Every team that has someone who CAN heal has a team with a healer on it. They may not be specced for it. They may not have experience with it. But if they get in there and discover they don't have enough healing active, they can do what any of us would do in that situation: they can adapt and switch to it.
 
*facepalm* No wonder the queues aren't popping. The game has decided you're too dumb to say "Hey, maybe one of the three of us on the team that can heal, should."
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*facepalm* No wonder the queues aren't popping. The game has decided you're too dumb to say "Hey, maybe one of the three of us on the team that can heal, should."
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It's not just that.  How many people do you know that maintain a set of support gear?  You can't queue to heal or tank if you do nothing but stack AP while you quest.
 
It's not the game that decided to say that.  This was also an issue way back in the day in WoW, where you couldn't get a healer or tank and generally had to make do while you were leveling with people in DPS gear.  Only in this game, people don't have an LFG channel to work that out, they've only got the LFG queue mechanic.  So you've got endless streams of people queued for DPS and nobody queueing for heals or tanking because they don't even think about it.
 
It's more related to questing being a faster and more efficient way of leveling even if the queues are popping off the hook, so why build a support set when you can just quest and level faster (and with more interesting scenery)?  Carbine's retuning experience and gear gains at low levels of content to encourage people, but you can't PUG if there's nobody interested in tanking or healing.
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And if the queues never pop, then how are you ever supposed to get in and memorize the instance? Or does part of the new tutorial dungeon include the phrase "Go to We'reTotallyGamers.com and memorize it first"?
If you only team up for group content and never need to be anything but DPS anywhere else, where are you supposed to learn those roles?
 
Never mind, I already know the answer. You're supposed to have mastered team dynamics and your role in the one run of one adventure that you're exposed to before you hit the level 20 dungeon. *sigh*
 
The whole point of a pug is that it may not be pretty, it may not be an elegant ballet dance with the boss, but it goes in anyway and slogs through. Most people who have a role that they'd prefer will select that one, that doesn't mean they'd prefer to not run the content at all to moving into a role they'd rather not do unless they had to. They won't know if they have to until they see the rest of their team.
 
Maybe having a queue system with markers for "only this role" versus "this role preferred" versus "no preference"?
 
Or, since gear appears to be a crucial factor, matching teams according to a minimum threshold of AP and SP in the group's DPS/heal classes and seperately in the group's DPS/tank classes? 
 
Or, since PlasmaJohn rightly notes there's no way for players to know how many DPS/healers/tanks are in the queue, maybe they should have that information so that if they'd be willing to do a role that's not present, they know that this is their ticket in.
 
*shrug* Or we could just blame the players for not doing it right, I suppose. Far be it for me to suggest that the game in all its perfection should change anything.	
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I feel like the current system was trying to get rid of the whole "Well, there are 5 of us here who'd rather dps, who's going to suck it up and do the *cupcake* work?" ahead of the group being created. You can queue as multiple specializations, so if you're a dps who's also willing to heal you can queue up as both. Current population is obviously exposing the flaws in the system, but one that just grabs 5 LFG people has it's own problems.
 
Luckily the veteran shiphand missions that are coming start at 3 people and not 5 if people want to do those grouped. They should probably extend that to the normal ones as well.	
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And if the queues never pop, then how are you ever supposed to get in and memorize the instance? Or does part of the new tutorial dungeon include the phrase "Go to We'reTotallyGamers.com and memorize it first"?
If you only team up for group content and never need to be anything but DPS anywhere else, where are you supposed to learn those roles?
 
Never mind, I already know the answer. You're supposed to have mastered team dynamics and your role in the one run of one adventure that you're exposed to before you hit the level 20 dungeon. *sigh*
 
The whole point of a pug is that it may not be pretty, it may not be an elegant ballet dance with the boss, but it goes in anyway and slogs through. Most people who have a role that they'd prefer will select that one, that doesn't mean they'd prefer to not run the content at all to moving into a role they'd rather not do unless they had to. They won't know if they have to until they see the rest of their team.
 
Maybe having a queue system with markers for "only this role" versus "this role preferred" versus "no preference"?
 
Or, since gear appears to be a crucial factor, matching teams according to a minimum threshold of AP and SP in the group's DPS/heal classes and seperately in the group's DPS/tank classes? 
 
Or, since PlasmaJohn rightly notes there's no way for players to know how many DPS/healers/tanks are in the queue, maybe they should have that information so that if they'd be willing to do a role that's not present, they know that this is their ticket in.
 
*shrug* Or we could just blame the players for not doing it right, I suppose. Far be it for me to suggest that the game in all its perfection should change anything.
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Okay, put your big boy pants on, you don't have to get your valley-girl on every time someone suggests that the problem might be related to players not queueing for the skill positions.  
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Thank you for that respectful and constructive contribution to the thread. May I suggest that a level 20 dungeon that people may be experiencing in their first day of MMORPG play ever is really not an appropriate place to ask people to put their big boy pants on? Or is that just me getting totally valley girl on you?
 
Blame the players it is, got it. Carry on.
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I agree with Vic about the issue being questing being more effecient. When I leveled my warrior, I tanked hycrest from 15-20, then STL from 20-26. I didn't even quest one bit because I was taniking and enjoying it (even if it was slower). But at 27 I was getting such lousy xp from STL or WotW that I went to questing. By the time I got to 35 and SC opened up, I didn't have a current tanking spec or good tanking gear, so I just kept questing, despite having a strong preference for tanking. I didn't even bother to queue as dps, because I knew I wouldn't get pops.
 
Switching KV to be a level 27 instance and having the dungeon give out better xp would've solved this problem for me (as a tank).	
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I agree with Vic about the issue being questing being more effecient. When I leveled my warrior, I tanked hycrest from 15-20, then STL from 20-26. I didn't even quest one bit because I was taniking and enjoying it (even if it was slower). But at 27 I was getting such lousy xp from STL or WotW that I went to questing. By the time I got to 35 and SC opened up, I didn't have a current tanking spec or good tanking gear, so I just kept questing, despite having a strong preference for tanking. I didn't even bother to queue as dps, because I knew I wouldn't get pops.
 
Switching KV to be a level 27 instance and having the dungeon give out better xp would've solved this problem for me (as a tank).
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			Improving the visibility of the grouping game would help significantly. Making sure shiphands, adventures and dungeons are all viable xp sources and all can be easily grouped for would be a great start.	
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If you get to STL on your first day of play, odds are you will do fine.  And actually, I do think that throwing pronounced sighs through soliloquies to be somewhat small and childish.  Your personal peception may vary.  If you didn't think my feedback was very constructive, I would be perfectly happy to type an instructive guide on how to write feedback that does not sound like you're not writing a blog about your parents not taking you to the mall
 
If saying that someone's going to have to tank and heal for the queue to pop is blaming it on the players, then yes, I have just blamed the players.  I can only hope the players' feelings aren't hurt by that painful assertion.  If the players feel like complaining at their treatment, they may direct their anger to my P.R. department.  I thought the idea that a PUG won't pop without a tank and healer to be a pretty straightforward observation, but if that's a personal slight, I can only hope the players' egos aren't bruised by my spite.
 
Woe be to "the players".
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Instructive guide on how to write feedback? Lawl, here we go again mister high and mighty. Who made you president on the proper way to type in a forum? Problem isn't the players or even how they queue, it is the lack of players even available to queue. That comes down to Carbine making a game more people think is worth playing. Not going so well at the moment. Best of luck with that, and trying to be forum king.
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You are under the impression that people are complaining about something nobody is using?  That would make this a somewhat pointless conversation, if nobody is queueing.  Or are you under the impression that there are no more than five people trying to PUG at any given time?
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To be fair, my wife and I queued last night as tank and healer for STL 20 (she hadn't played in a while, so I thought it would be a nice way to ease her back in) and we didn't have a queue pop. We only waited about 10 minutes, so it's not like we really gave it a chance, but if the issue is simply an imbalance with DPS, you'd have thought we'd have gotten an immediate pop.
 
I actually do fear that there are very, very few people queuing for these instances at any given time.	
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Wow, talk about dense. You might just make it to being the second person on my forum ignore list, right behind Lethality.
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No, not dense at all.  The reason I bring this up is following the given logic:
 
-You make the assumption no one is around to queue.  Not that people are not queueing, but that nobody is even available to queue.
 
-A queue works thus.  People individually or in small groups click to queue.  The system logs them into a list and waits for the first three DPS, tank, and healer, then spools them an instance.  That means that, even if there are only five people queueing, the queue will always pop as long as the proportion is correct.
 
-If we take that a queue works thus, and your assumption is taken as read, then the logical conclusion is that PUGs are not worth the time to fix because nobody is going to be available to use them.
 
That's a very different argument than what we're hearing, that people are always queueing but the queue never pops for them.  It assumes that the people are not even there.  So that's not me being dense, that's me asking if your intention is to have them leave improvments to the LFG system behind because they are literally worthless.
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Be better if we just had a bulletin board styled LFG system really for PvE...
 
Let people create an open party that they can then title it "Gold run for X" or "Learning run of Y" "Aiming for silver!!" for dungeons, adventures, shiphands, and even group quests. Have it display the roles needed and the roles filled. Once filled if it's an instanced area like a dungeon it will port players to that group. This allows people in a global way to request help and offer it as well. While I know we can have custom chat channels like the "EntityLFM" up and coming players and even those who are 50 aren't all aware of it until someone else says it and people can only do so much when it comes to this as maybe only a handful will go "hey guys join X channel".
 
From what I see theres a few factors working against low level and even level cap queues:
A) Preconceived notions that PUGs can't do dungeons so people avoid it.	B )Mismatched intentions when running dungeons. Not everyone wants to go for the gold and I've seen people get frustrated in PUGs where you have 1 or more people learning the dungeons/adventures for the first time usually causing a disband.	A lot of people who only do DD roles and very few tanks and healers to go around.	Lower level players really have little to no gear and experience incentive to dungeon their way up to 50 like you could in PvP(when it was actually popping)	Not many 50s will do normal runs either to refresh themselves or help lower level players that aren't in their guild/circle. Even in EntityLFM I've seen quite a few times when a lower level player has asked and was only able to run he dungeon because I hoped on my warrior, grabbed a couple of friends, and tanked it for them scaled down.	When you actually do get a run of the instances, a significant number of people feel like they busted their ass for no reason when they get to the end or kill a boss and often the gear is such crap you're better off just questing for better gear and more experience. This also causes a problem where people have not done the normal versions and so they get thrown into the flames when they do their veteran counterparts...	PvE instances are faction restricted so what small pool there is available is cut down further. I feel Dominion feels this more than Exiles, but either way it's unfortunate when as example you see a Dominion player ask to do a dungeon on the forums or even in-game and an Exile offers to run it or vise verse, but they can't due to faction wall.
PvP is a monster of issues in and of itself that....well like the OP said and I'll simply say sub 50 you're lucky if you ever see one pop up.	
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Like I said, dense. Your assumption on what I am assuming is hilarious at best.
 
My statement was simply a mockery that a dead game with as few people left playing at low level as there is now is hardly, if ever, going to pop a level 20 queue. This is because the number of people queuing is low in general and the trinity by nature always has less tanks and healers then dps (as you and others noted previously in this thread). SlyJeff's post above yours proves the point that even with a tank and healer going into STL queue it should have been instant queue if people are queuing for it. So the combo of too few people available, and too few tanks and healers = almost no STL level 20 queues ever popping. Clear enough for you? 
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			Yeah, would like a bulletin board style LFG.	
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Be better if we just had a bulletin board styled LFG system really for PvE...
 
Let people create an open party that they can then title it "Gold run for X" or "Learning run of Y" "Aiming for silver!!" for dungeons, adventures, shiphands, and even group quests. Have it display the roles needed and the roles filled. Once filled if it's an instanced area like a dungeon it will port players to that group. This allows people in a global way to request help and offer it as well. While I know we can have custom chat channels like the "EntityLFM" up and coming players and even those who are 50 aren't all aware of it until someone else says it and people can only do so much when it comes to this as maybe only a handful will go "hey guys join X channel".
 
From what I see theres a few factors working against low level and even level cap queues:
A) Preconceived notions that PUGs can't do dungeons so people avoid it.	B )Mismatched intentions when running dungeons. Not everyone wants to go for the gold and I've seen people get frustrated in PUGs where you have 1 or more people learning the dungeons/adventures for the first time usually causing a disband.
	A lot of people who only do DD roles and very few tanks and healers to go around.	Lower level players really have little to no gear and experience incentive to dungeon their way up to 50 like you could in PvP(when it was actually popping)	Not many 50s will do normal runs either to refresh themselves or help lower level players that aren't in their guild/circle. Even in EntityLFM I've seen quite a few times when a lower level player has asked and was only able to run he dungeon because I hoped on my warrior, grabbed a couple of friends, and tanked it for them scaled down.	When you actually do get a run of the instances, a significant number of people feel like they busted their ass for no reason when they get to the end or kill a boss and often the gear is such crap you're better off just questing for better gear and more experience. This also causes a problem where people have not done the normal versions and so they get thrown into the flames when they do their veteran counterparts...	PvE instances are faction restricted so what small pool there is available is cut down further. I feel Dominion feels this more than Exiles, but either way it's unfortunate when as example you see a Dominion player ask to do a dungeon on the forums or even in-game and an Exile offers to run it or vise verse, but they can't due to faction wall.
PvP is a monster of issues in and of itself that....well like the OP said and I'll simply say sub 50 you're lucky if you ever see one pop up.
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What they can't fix is that there will always be a disproportionate amount of DPS in queue that will always have significantly longer queue times than their support role counterparts.
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To be fair, my wife and I queued last night as tank and healer for STL 20 (she hadn't played in a while, so I thought it would be a nice way to ease her back in) and we didn't have a queue pop. We only waited about 10 minutes, so it's not like we really gave it a chance, but if the issue is simply an imbalance with DPS, you'd have thought we'd have gotten an immediate pop.
 
I actually do fear that there are very, very few people queuing for these instances at any given time.
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I'll tank dungeons primarily for guildees who need the job done, but I don't think I ever queued as a tank for a PUG.  Why?  Because there's always some jerk waiting to criticize how you play.  He shuts up when you blast him off the chart in DPS, but won't if you're a healer or a tank.  You're always to blame for his death no matter how poorly he's playing.
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			I keep running alts but I agree! I stopped playing for a mouth because my hole guild stop playing and then I had family stuff happen. Now that I came back it seems like u have to be in a guild to do the stuff carbine needs to fix this. Add a q for the world bosses and make it where people want to run stuff with people in pugs would be a good start. Because most of the stuff people want to do are the aka Dungeons and Raids which u cant get into with out attunement. I think is fine to say u need to beat all the dungeons to raid. But with the pop the way it is they almost need to get rid of the would bosses cause u cant even get the dungeons done how do u think people will get the WB done. I would join a group but after being in 3 guilds that have left the game I decided to start my own. But now I'm not attuned so its hard to even get a guild going and people that have came back are afraid that if they join a guild they will just stop playing. Not sure how they can fix this but they need to do something! I started playing this to get in to raids but ever group I get in stops playing. I might just have bad luck also. But at least most of us that stayed are all nice. But I'm still not wanting to join a guild just have to start over and finding people to join mine is not easy.	
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The lack of people at low levels has been an issue of MMOS. That's the main reason Blizzard removed group quest from Azeroth zones in Cataclysm, replacing them with chains.
 
My guess is that at some point here will happen the same. It pretty sure will not be a priority since at least group quest rewards give a 1 or maybe 2 level advantage over a similar green that will be granted a couple of quests along the way.	
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			And also depending on the class, char skills, and player skills, most 2 player group mobs can be solo.	
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And PvP queues may be low at low levels because among other things the game penalizes players. Unless you don't plan to do any PvE at all, zone reputation is a requirement for attunement. Many people learn that the hard way.
 
Having separate item stats, and currency for PvP and PvE is a bad idea imo. It makes the one dedicated to a specific portion of the game godlike, while making that same player crap on the other portion of the game. Also since these gears are rated, in other games players have beaten the AI by items that while rated high, will underperform due to lack of stats.
 
Was a bad idea in WoW, was a bad idea in swtor, was a bad idea here.	
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