Meeting:20141026/minutes

Welcome to the SpongeBobia Wiki chat 
SummerSpongefan20 has joined the chat. 
JosephHawk has joined the chat. 
4:02
JosephHawk
hello
Spongebob456 has joined the chat. 
4:03
AMK152
we will wait a little bit
4:10
7 min
4:03
JosephHawk
sure
Tominator777 has joined the chat. 
4:06
Tominator777
i'm here
4:06
JosephHawk
hello! 
4:07
Tominator777
hi Joseph
4:07
AMK152
hello
Spike the Dragon has joined the chat. 
4:07
AMK152
3 min
4:07
Tominator777
hi Andrew
4:07
Spike the Dragon
hi
4:07
Tominator777
hi Spike
4:11
Spike the Dragon
test
4:11
Tominator777
here
4:13
AMK152
ok
I guess we can start
4:13
Tominator777
ok
4:13
AMK152
I will send a message first at ESB chat
ok
Dinosaur250 has joined the chat. 
4:14
AMK152
1. 120d situation (block, 3RR, etc.)
4:14
Tominator777
hi Road
4:15
AMK152
I will be clear here to say that he did not violate the 3 revert rule (he almost did)... the page should have been protected as soon as the edit war occurred
also, several people need to stop ganging up on 120d and backing him into a corner
otherwise, it adds fuel to the fire
4:15
Tominator777
yeah
4:15
AMK152
and that's what I have to say about that
anyone else?
4:16
Tominator777
yeah
4:16
Spongebob456
In all honesty, I agree with you on not ganging up on him, but I do feel we're just ignoring the disruption he has caused. We're treating him differently to how we would other users.
How can we allow him to just intimidate users?
4:17
AMK152
the intimidation happened after the block
4:17
Spongebob456
To me, his attitude on the wiki counteracts his contributions.
He's always intimidated users I'm afraid.
4:18
AMK152
yes, but I am talking about since his block ended on Oct. 22nd
4:18
Tominator777
i agree with 456
4:18
Spongebob456
I'm not saying block him now, I am saying that we shouldn't treat him any differently to other users.
4:18
Spike the Dragon
Yeah, like for example if they make a edit mistake, he'd probably send them a message going through details to make the edit right.
4:18
AMK152
right
4:18
Spongebob456
To me, if someone else had done what he had done they would be blocked now.
4:18
AMK152
the thing is, 120d changing his behavior is a two-way street - 1) 120d changes and 2) the community is accepting of any change
#2 should not be an issue, although it is
4:19
JosephHawk
I doubt he's going to change his behavior
4:19
Spongebob456
I'm happy to let it go for now, as long as we react appropriately next time. If it means blocking him for 3 months or whatever then so be it.
4:19
Tominator777
yeah, i agree with Joseph
4:19
AMK152
he did admit to his mistakes from the spring, and stopped complaining about certain things
4:20
Spongebob456
I don't buy that unfortunately.
4:20
JosephHawk
I feel he's going to "play nice" to receive adminship back...
4:20
Spongebob456
^
4:20
AMK152
Thread:135676
4:20
Dinosaur250
???
4:20
AMK152
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:135676
4:21
Spongebob456
It is that which makes me wonder why he was unblocked.
4:21
AMK152
"Do not ever ever ever use ampersands in articles." - 120d "Ok, I promise not to use ampersands." - STHerbs "Thank you. Also, do not change the format of "Debut", "Cameo", or the subtitles." - 120d "120d, you gotta stop backseat driving all the time..." - Dinosaur
the last comment is what I am talking about
he told STHerbs about proper use of amps, then thanked him.
we tell 120d to warn people and not block them for little mistakes
so 120d goes around and tells people how to do things, and suddenly that is bad
this has happened numerous times
4:23
Spike the Dragon
I think he's acknowledged that he blocking people all the time is not needed by now.
4:23
Spongebob456
I'm sorry, I might just be seeing it differently, but nowhere in there do I see a peaceful response. It still seems very blunt and intimidating.
4:23
JosephHawk
^
Lumoshi has joined the chat. 
4:23
Spongebob456
 o/
4:23
Lumoshi
yo estoy presente
4:24
Tominator777
hi Lumoshi
4:24
JosephHawk
Yes, he isn't yelling at the guy, but he isn't being too nice either
4:24
AMK152
he should have said please, but still, it seems that everyone is looking for something 120d is doing wrong
4:24
Tominator777
what is an amersand?
4:24
Spike the Dragon
&
4:24
Lumoshi
&
4:24
AMK152
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:135721
4:24
Tominator777
ok
4:25
AMK152
Tan called someone a jerk, and 120d pointed it out and no one jumped on Tan for doing so
but if 120d calls someone a jerk, that is bad
double standard
4:25
Tominator777
wow
120d is right
4:26
Spongebob456
I don't know. All I know is, since he's returned, we have argumentative threads with him still intimidating users.
4:26
Spike the Dragon
It's because it would be more noticable when 120d starts something with all those past-blocks.
4:26
AMK152
it's not entirely 120d, that is my point. Other people are adding fuel to the fire.
120d is being treated far more harsh than any other user
4:27
Spongebob456
Okay, my proposal: * leave him be for now * warn as normal * block as normal 
4:27
Tominator777
yeah
4:27
Spongebob456
Is he though?
Would another user have been blocked by now?
4:28
AMK152
"Would another user have been blocked by now?" - another user would not have been cornered
4:28
Tominator777
even Hardink is starting to feel sympathy for 120d
4:28
AMK152
the attitude toward 120d effected 120d's behavior
4:28
Spongebob456
Hmm, I don't know. I'll leave it be for now.
4:29
AMK152
if you were walking down a hallway, and a group of people were cornering one person, telling them how wrong they were, and the person being cornered was shouting, who would you blame?
4:30
Tominator777
the bullies
4:30
AMK152
exactly
the cornered person would not be shouting if he was left alone and if everyone talked to him fairly
4:30
Spongebob456
I don't know. Looking forward, let's just leave it. However, he should be treated like any other user.
4:30
AMK152
that is exactly what is happening right now
4:30
Spongebob456
In terms of warning or blocking.
 (y)
Agreed.
4:30
AMK152
exactly, he must be treated fairly, and not just in punishment
he must be treated fairly and equally as an editor
4:31
Spongebob456
Yes.
4:31
AMK152
the second part is the problem, because it isn't happening
and that is what must change
ok then
4:31
Spongebob456
next?
4:32
AMK152
anyone who sees anything, act civil, don't argue at all
2. SpongeBob Infinity 2a. Logo contest 2b. Status (Phase III) 2c. Calendar 2d. Newsletter 2e. Octerror Fest
the SBC people are not here...
so I don't know what is going on with SBI
Dinosaur250 has left the chat. 
4:32
AMK152
3. Fanonia SpongeBobia 3a. Judges/Contests
http://spongebobfanon.wikia.com/wiki/FSB:Contests
http://spongebobfanon.wikia.com/wiki/FSB:Judges
just thought I would put that out there in case anyone is interested
4. SpongeTokens 4a. Completing tasks immediately after creating them.
4:33
Spongebob456
I don't really do FSB, so not sure. |:
4:33
AMK152
ok Joseph, this is yours...
4:33
Spongebob456
Yes, apparently Nicko has been doing that.
4:34
AMK152
I stopped the credit tables by creating one large task
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/ESB:Tasks/Convert_crew_members'_credits_lists_to_tables
4:34
JosephHawk
sorry, what?
4:34
AMK152
talking about Nicko creating tasks then completing them minutes later
4:34
Spongebob456
Task completion.
4:35
JosephHawk
ah yes
I feel it's wrong for a user to post a task, and then complete it immediately
4:35
AMK152
there are numerous tasks (converting to tables, galleries, transcripts, etc.) that should be created but havn't yet
4:35
JosephHawk
I propose that a user must wait a week, and if no one does the task, then you can complete it
4:36
AMK152
the tasks that Nicko completed should already be up on the tasks board, but no one has found them time to add them all yet
like, if someone completes a transcript and doesn't get points because it wasn't a task
so I am going to create mass tasks, like the cleaning up of small subpages
what about 3 days between posting a task and completing it?
4:37
JosephHawk
1 week
4:37
Spongebob456
^
4:37
AMK152
say it's 1 week
4:37
Spongebob456
Plenty of time for it to be complete.
completed*
4:37
AMK152
and they start working on it after 3 days, then finish it after 10 days... does it count?
4:37
JosephHawk
Yes, it gives every user a fair chance
No, the posting user cannot do any of the task until after a week
4:38
AMK152
say a new episode aired, they post a transcript, start it 3 days later, and complete it after 10 days... doesn it count?
they cannot edit the page at all?
4:38
JosephHawk
nope, they need to know that before they make the task
4:39
AMK152
how about this:
1. Any user who posts a task cannot edit the associated article or articles until after seven (7) days have passed, otherwise they will not be awarded teh designated amount of SpongeTokens.
4:39
Spike the Dragon
*the
4:39
AMK152
yes
4:40
Spongebob456
Well, they could edit the article if they were reverting vandalism for example, but I get what you mean.
4:40
AMK152
1. Any user who posts a task cannot edit the associated article or articles for the purpose of completing the task until after seven (7) days have passed, otherwise they will not be awarded teh designated amount of SpongeTokens.
1. Any user who posts a task cannot edit the associated article or articles for the purpose of completing the task until after seven (7) days have passed, otherwise they will not be awarded the designated amount of SpongeTokens.
sounds good?
JosephHawk has left the chat. 
4:40
Spike the Dragon
you said "teh"
instead of the
4:40
Tominator777
yeah
4:40
AMK152
I fixed it
4:40
Spike the Dragon
oh
4:41
AMK152
another thing I wanted to mention
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/David_Fain
see that small table? Nicko completed it for 100 ST
mean while, there are larger http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/Alan Smart tables, still an award of 100 ST
Instead of an award of 100 ST per table, it should be changed to 2 ST per line. For example, small tables (such as the David Fain) and large tables (such as Alan Smart) should not get the same award. It should be based on how large the table is. This would go for all tasks that require converting something into a table.
so David Fain table would be 8 ST
Fuzzy Slippers has joined the chat. 
4:42
AMK152
hello Fuzzy
4:42
Fuzzy Slippers
hi
I'm new
4:42
Tominator777
hi Fuzzy
4:43
AMK152
Welcome to ESB!
4:43
Fuzzy Slippers
thanks
4:43
AMK152
we are having a meeting, you can join us
4:43
Fuzzy Slippers
so, what's the topic
4:43
AMK152
SpongeTokens
4:43
Fuzzy Slippers
ok
4:43
Tominator777
SpongeTokens
oh, lags
Lumoshi has left the chat. 
4:43
AMK152
it's our points system: http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/ESB:SpongeTokens
4:44
Fuzzy Slippers
oh
4:44
AMK152
anyone have any other ideas for SpongeTokens?
4:44
Tominator777
for completeing tasks
oh
4:44
AMK152
also, I removed the other leaderboard... we only need 1
4:44
Tominator777
yeah, i got some ideas
4:44
AMK152
go on
Tom?
send me your ideas in a PM
5. Other titled roles (not B'crat, admin, rollback, or chat mod)
4:45
Tominator777
ok
4:45
AMK152
any thoughs on these?
I was thinking about having teams for certain things
for example, Gallery builders
JosephHawk has joined the chat. 
4:46
AMK152
and there will be one team "captain" to direct the team in helping complete the tasks
4:47
JosephHawk
sorry, what did I miss? My internet crashed >.<
4:47
AMK152
Everything, Joseph. You missed everything.
4:47
JosephHawk
awwww
4:47
AMK152
say hello to Fuzzy, a new member at ESB
and we were talking about 5. Other titled roles (not B'crat, admin, rollback, or chat mod)
AMK152 any thoughs on these? I was thinking about having teams for certain things for example, Gallery builders
AMK152 and there will be one team "captain" to direct the team in helping complete the tasks
4:48
Tominator777
good idea Andrew
4:48
JosephHawk
I oppose
4:48
AMK152
why?
it's like a taskforce, like they have on Wikipedia
4:48
JosephHawk
Let's be real, our editors are dwindling. We can't sustain a task force like this
4:48
AMK152
and if someone wants to help, they know the right people to contact for help
gallery builders
4:49
Tominator777
maybe have a captain team work in a way similar to the admin system on here
with similar rules, and how it's enforced on the team
4:50
AMK152
it's basically so they know who wants to collaborate on certain tasks
we can also have a technical team
4:50
Tominator777
yeah
4:50
AMK152
those who work on templates, coding, etc.
Spike the Dragon has left the chat. 
4:51
AMK152
users can apply for a "captain" position, and they can be voted on (so the most qualified candidate can lead)
4:51
JosephHawk
As stated before, we can't sustain such task forces.
4:51
AMK152
which will probably end up being an admin
4:52
Tominator777
yeah
4:52
AMK152
well, we need to start somewhere
4:52
Fuzzy Slippers
Wow, I feel like such a noob :P
4:52
Tominator777
it's ok Fuzzy
4:52
JosephHawk
haha, true me, we were all noobs at one point
trust*
4:52
Tominator777
yeah
4:52
AMK152
yeah
4:53
Fuzzy Slippers
so true
4:53
JosephHawk
AMK, when we have a bunch of users completing the current tasks, then we can form Task Forces
4:54
AMK152
having task forces now can help new users learn how to help by being part of a task force
it's at least worth a discussion
4:54
JosephHawk
hmmmm...
4:54
AMK152
anyway...
6. Ended discussions 6a. Remove administrator requirements - passed 6b. Tasks (revision 3) - passed
so, even though there were concerns about removing admin requirements, it has been extremely successful
4:55
JosephHawk
1 new admin ;)
4:55
Tominator777
i agree with Andrew
4:55
AMK152
*2
4:55
Spongebob456
Sorry, was away.
4:55
AMK152
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/ESB:Requests_for_adminship/DJSponge <-- looks like this one won't succeed
I hope he applies again
4:56
JosephHawk
Jensonk met the requirements
4:56
Spongebob456
It's his inactivity which has held him back a little.
4:56
Tominator777
Joseph PM
4:56
JosephHawk
sure
4:56
AMK152
I will close that after the meeting
4:56
JosephHawk
if he edits s'more, he'll be fine
4:56
AMK152
7. Categories
4:57
Spongebob456
I know I may be being a little hypocritical due to my semi-active period, but still.
4:57
AMK152
I was thinking DJ might suddenly be very active if he were an admin
anyway, 7. Categories
now, this is about 120d adding categories for Wives, Husbands, Brothers, Daughters, Sons, Fathers, etc.
then there is the whole "Male" and "Female" categories
thoughts?
4:58
Spongebob456
I'm not sure what to think with those.
4:58
AMK152
I honestly do not see a reason to keep them
they have no benefits at all
4:58
JosephHawk
remove them
4:58
Spongebob456
We did frown upon them a while back.
Yeah, remove 'em.
4:58
AMK152
and people add them because they can make new badge categories
I have removed them several times, they keep getting added back
so I guess look out for anyone adding useless categories and tell them not to add them
4:59
Spongebob456
 (y)
4:59
Tominator777
i even had to clean a whole bunch of pages from one bad category
4:59
Spongebob456
Brb
4:59
AMK152
I saw that Tom
5:00
Spongebob456
(if I'm not back by the end of the meeting, I'll catch up later)
5:00
JosephHawk
good work with that Tom
5:00
AMK152
8. Project Cleanup: Characters 8a. Character infobox/show-hide (Option A)
I don't even... I don't know...
9. Episode ratings system
Nicko has been doing some testing with this
I wish he were here to discuss, but we are making progress
10. From the Suggestions List
#105. PageRenameAuto-Update
thoughts on adding this?
5:01
JosephHawk
Sure, why not?
5:01
Tominator777
doesn't sound good Andrew
5:01
AMK152
http://dev.wikia.com/wiki/PageRenameAuto-update
Spongebob456 has left the chat. 
5:02
Tominator777
it'll lag user's internet
5:02
AMK152
it will?
5:02
Tominator777
let me look at it 1st
5:02
AMK152
actually, I see what you mean
especially if the link is on many pages
TrevorOntario719 has joined the chat. 
5:03
TrevorOntario719
yo
so what happened
5:04
Tominator777
like the pages of the main charaters
5:04
TrevorOntario719
 (hi)
5:04
JosephHawk
Hi Trevor
5:04
Fuzzy Slippers
hi
5:04
Tominator777
hi Trevor
5:05
AMK152
I will test it
5:06
Fuzzy Slippers
I think I'm gonna' go, bye
5:07
AMK152
it's not working for me
I am going to put that on hold
#108. Quote of the day on the home page
I'd say better use is when we we start doing quote contests
to decide which quotes
5:09
TrevorOntario719
yay
5:09
AMK152
111. 4 separate SpongeTokens Leaderboards
absolutely not
5:09
JosephHawk
nooooo
5:09
AMK152
too confusing, and just too much
5:09
TrevorOntario719
why not
Fuzzy Slippers has left the chat. 
5:09
JosephHawk
per AMK
5:09
TrevorOntario719
i like the idea
5:09
AMK152
it discourages people from working harder to advance on the main leaderboard
if we make 4 leaderboards, we might as well start handing out SpongeTokens for free
5:10
JosephHawk
ha, very true
5:10
AMK152
I am going to dismiss that suggestion
we can bring it to discussion if people have any issues about it, but I don't think that will happen
we only have one badges leaderboard after all
#112. Locations guideline page
I like this idea, but we need to come up with guidelines
I can start drafting one
5:12
JosephHawk
um, what's that about?
5:12
AMK152
http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/ESB:Episode_articles - guidelines for episodes http://spongebob.wikia.com/wiki/ESB:Locations - guideline for locations (currently does not exist)
to show people how location articles are formatted
any ideas for formatting?
it's pretty simple
5:13
JosephHawk
hmmm
5:14
AMK152
send me any ideas you have when they come to you
#113. "I think that, unless it is super serious, there should be a period of time, before a user can get blocked after being blocked one or more times."
120d's suggestion
I would like to dismiss that
second the motion?
5:15
Tominator777
i agree Andrew, dissmiss
5:15
AMK152
Any opposed?
5:15
TrevorOntario719
120d said that because hes banned
sore kid
5:15
AMK152
DISMISSED
any other ideas or things to discuss before I summerize?
ok then
5:16
Tominator777
yeah
5:17
AMK152
1. 120d did not violate 3RR; admins are recommended to protect pages to prevent edit wars; everyone is recommended to stop backing 120d into a corner, as such attitude toward him is not productive for anyone. The past must be let go and we must move on, and take care of any situation equally and fairly. 2. Tasks (revision 4) proposal to be created 3. Task forces discussion 4. Remove all useless categories 5. #105. PageRenameAuto-Update - hold off 6. #108. Quote of the day on the home page - hold off 7. #111. 4 separate SpongeTokens Leaderboards - DISMISSED 8. #112. Locations guideline page - to be drafted 9. #113. "I think that, unless it is super serious, there should be a period of time, before a user can get blocked after being blocked one or more times." - DISMISSED
ZeoSpark has joined the chat. 
JosephHawk has left the chat. 
5:19
AMK152
--end meeting--
5:19
Tominator777
hi Zeo