106554-rngstar-really-carbine-really

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I don't know how many posts it's going to take (to get to the center of a tootsie pop) but here goes...
 
RNG IS BAD MMKAY!
 
When are you going to learn that players don't want to farm a dungeon multiple times for an item and then when it finally drops they see the 50 blue they have is better because the RNG rune slots are total crap? When are you going to learn that this has turned more players off from the game than kept players here? When are you going to learn that WE DO NOT WANT RNG RUNE SLOTS OR RUNE COLORS and that static items are not bad and it doesn't make you a WoW clone? When are you going to learn that if you are going to keep this absolutely totally ludicrous and disgusting system in your game you NEED to make a tradeskill option to change the slots around? When are you going to learn we don't just want the runes to be able to do more things because of your horrible system, keep them the same, we want static rune slots so we can truly gear in a reasonable amount of time? When are you going to learn that as it stands this is probably the worst system most of us have ever seen? 
 
Please Carbine, change this absolutely terrible RNG system, get over yourselves and what you think is good and making players come back and play, and take a hint from the majority of your community!
 
TL; DR Stop the RNG, STOP IT!	
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			When are you going to learn to stop posting opinion as fact and provide statistics to back up your venomous spew? Stop being entitled. You are the problem not the solution.	
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When are you going to learn to stop posting opinion as fact and provide statistics to back up your venomous spew? Stop being entitled. You are the problem not the solution.
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Sorry, any level of emphasis or intensity will just summon The Horde to quote one line where you used an absolute (all, every, never) and drill down on you about that for the next three pages, if they don't just deflect or derail it with roleplaying.
 
People know the Rune Slot RNG is garbage and that Carbine is looking at overhauling the entire affair. But there are certain tones the forum won't allow.	
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I think the goal is that you can look forward to having minor upgrades with different rune slots. So even after you get a piece of gear you can "progress".
 
It's a nice idea, or at least goal.
 
However, right now the gap is too big between good and bad rune slots, and even if it wasn't you now have the issue of people who already have an item rolling against someone who doesn't simply for a rune slot upgrade.
 
I'm kicking myself for picking greed on an item I already had when one with better runeslots dropped. Because I can't use the item as is, and I could have used the one that dropped. But the "nice guy" in me felt bad rolling need on it. I won't make the same mistake again.	
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When are you going to learn to stop posting opinion as fact and provide statistics to back up your venomous spew? Stop being entitled. You are the problem not the solution.
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Trolls feast yet again!
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I don't know how many posts it's going to take (to get to the center of a tootsie pop) but here goes...
 
RNG IS BAD MMKAY!
 
When are you going to learn that players don't want to farm a dungeon multiple times for an item and then when it finally drops they see the 50 blue they have is better because the RNG rune slots are total crap? When are you going to learn that this has turned more players off from the game than kept players here? When are you going to learn that WE DO NOT WANT RNG RUNE SLOTS OR RUNE COLORS and that static items are not bad and it doesn't make you a WoW clone? When are you going to learn that if you are going to keep this absolutely totally ludicrous and disgusting system in your game you NEED to make a tradeskill option to change the slots around? When are you going to learn we don't just want the runes to be able to do more things because of your horrible system, keep them the same, we want static rune slots so we can truly gear in a reasonable amount of time? When are you going to learn that as it stands this is probably the worst system most of us have ever seen? 
 
Please Carbine, change this absolutely terrible RNG system, get over yourselves and what you think is good and making players come back and play, and take a hint from the majority of your community!
 
TL; DR Stop the RNG, STOP IT!
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Making extremely arrogant posts on issues that have already been acknowledged don't contribute to anything.
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			Agree, rune system is by far the worst part of this game imo. And now they had to go  ahead nad make PVP gear with random rune slots.	
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When are you going to learn to stop posting opinion as fact and provide statistics to back up your venomous spew? Stop being entitled. You are the problem not the solution.
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			I've asked them for a reason for all the rng. J-Tal never answered (shocker). If you ask me they're clinging on to the rng for the inevitable F2P changeover. As much as I wanted this game to succeed I don't see it staying sub based into next year. They drag their asses on needed changes, band aid broken legs, and flat out ignore player feedback from the ptr, hell beta even. If the devs were listening it would show in a very different way. The class devs are inept, the item dev is something far beyond that, and by far the worst department has gotta be QA. This team is the exact opposite of Batman right now. I wish they would act right but right now this game is just speeding towards another NCSuck F2P peasantfest. I don't even know what to say to them any more. I'm still here waiting for now...hoping.	
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I've asked them for a reason for all the rng. J-Tal never answered (shocker).
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Making extremely arrogant posts on issues that have already been acknowledged don't contribute to anything.
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Agree, rune system is by far the worst part of this game imo. And now they had to go  ahead nad make PVP gear with random rune slots.
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In the thread about itemization, he did say that they wanted people to feel like they would be able to get minor upgrades with different rune slots. He didn't directly say this was the reason they put the system in place, but reading between the lines I'd say that's probably the goal.
 
And if there wasn't a huge disparity between the rune slot types (which is what he wants to move to), then that idea makes a lot more sense.
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At least now everyone feels the same!
 
haha
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			They should add crafting ability where you can add or change the type of rune slots you have on your gears.	
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They should add crafting ability where you can add or change the type of rune slots you have on your gears.
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They should add crafting ability where you can add or change the type of rune slots you have on your gears.
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I think simply having a way to "reforge" rune slots would be nice...
 
Perhaps even just having a way to "force" a talisman in a slot at the cost of its effectiveness?
Like if I wanted to put a +physical resist into a life rune slot that would give me +222 if it were an actual physical resist slot it'd give me +180 instead or whatever lower slot would be. This lets people rune how they feel best sutis them and while it's not the ABSOLUTE best, still allows them to get close.
 
I can't recall actual percentages of each slot, but to further explain and using random simply numbers.
 
In this scenario we're using a 1 slot weapon.
Let's say that 1st slot is 100% , 2nd slot is 75%(again I don't remember actual percentages ofhand)
 
My weapon has a logic slot but I want a +health rune put on it, which would come normally from earth and life runes.
 
I make the+health anyway and plop it in the logic slot. Normally I would get +400 health, BUT because it's not a matching slot a penalty is put in and instead of getting 100%, I get 75% of the benefit from that rune, resulting in +300 health...
			
				
	Edited August 7, 2014 by Typrop	
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Wait.
 
Wasn't this just addressed by the Devs like ... this week? Did they not say they were looking into changing the whole system?
 
I am pretty sure they did.
 
I am pretty sure you know that.
 
So I am pretty sure this post is just to get attention, incite an already angry community, or to rub the Devs faces in an issue they've already acknowledge.
 
Thus. A troll.	
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Wait.
 
Wasn't this just addressed by the Devs like ... this week? Did they not say they were looking into changing the whole system?
 
I am pretty sure they did.
 
I am pretty sure you know that.
 
So I am pretty sure this post is just to get attention, incite an already angry community, or to rub the Devs faces in an issue they've already acknowledge.
 
Thus. A troll.
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This would be the last option I choose but at least it would somewhat fix the horrible system in place since they are sooooooo against admitting that it is bad and just fixing the entire thing all together
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I did see what they said this week and everything they said was addressed by my questions. They don't want to get rid of the RNG system and that's the problem. They want to try and make the rune slots more universal but what they don't understand is then why have them random at all after that? Why make them all pretty much the same then? That's the point, even with their proposed changes the system will still be utter crap
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So then, you're complaining about something you haven't seen in action and really have no idea which direction it's going to go?
 
Still a troll.
 
I get that you're passionate about this. I really do. But seriously? Slamming a system you haven't even SEEN yet and calling it crap?
 
I stand by my assertion.	
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			The rune system sucks, no doubt.  Though I don't think I'd mind it nearly as much if items were locked to classes/specs to roll on.  I've seen two tank items I need drop a dozen times, implant and shield, and lost the roll every, single, time to other people who are running DPS.  I get it, their off-spec is tank and they can use the item, but that does absolutely nothing for my desire to resub to the game.  The "carrot" is more like "moldy old carrot that you think you could eat because maybe it's not quite that bad just yet" at this point.	
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What's really *cupcake*ed up is (according to J-Tal himself on one of the most recent Nexus Reports), they are keeping it this way specifically so people keep grinding it out.  He flat out said they're changing the PVP gear to have random colors/slots so "people can keep buying the gear to get what they want".  When the item dev all but says "we're keeping it to artificially lengthen time spent playing" you know you're backing the wrong company.  All they want is our money, they don't give a shit about anything else.  Random number of slots is one thing, and on it's own is fine..  Random colored slots is another thing, and again, on it's own is fine.  Random number of slots + random color in those slots is a ridiculously poorly thought out system.
 
Just one of the many, many reasons I'm slowly starting to dislike Carbine as a whole, and won't be resubbing once my year+ of CREDD runs out.  Maybe by then they'll have gotten a clue, but I'm not holding my breath.	
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So then, you're complaining about something you haven't seen in action and really have no idea which direction it's going to go?
 
Still a troll.
 
I get that you're passionate about this. I really do. But seriously? Slamming a system you haven't even SEEN yet and calling it crap?
 
I stand by my assertion.
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What's really *cupcake*ed up is (according to J-Tal himself on one of the most recent Nexus Reports), they are keeping it this way specifically so people keep grinding it out.  He flat out said they're changing the PVP gear to have random colors/slots so "people can keep buying the gear to get what they want".  When the item dev all but says "we're keeping it to artificially lengthen time spent playing" you know you're backing the wrong company.  All they want is our money, they don't give a shit about anything else.  Random number of slots is one thing, and on it's own is fine..  Random colored slots is another thing, and again, on it's own is fine.  Random number of slots + random color in those slots is a ridiculously poorly thought out system.
 
Just one of the many, many reasons I'm slowly starting to dislike Carbine as a whole, and won't be resubbing once my year+ of CREDD runs out.  Maybe by then they'll have gotten a clue, but I'm not holding my breath.
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When are you going to learn that you are the minority on this issue? 
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 When the item dev all but says "we're keeping it to artificially lengthen time spent playing" you know you're backing the wrong company.  All they want is our money, they don't give a shit about anything else. 
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That's not true. Not even close.
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			I like random runeslots, they just need to fix the massive disparity between Fire/Fusion >>>> Earth >>>>Everything else, when they do that, which they said they are working on, it will be perfect.	
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Wait.
 
Wasn't this just addressed by the Devs like ... this week? Did they not say they were looking into changing the whole system?
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If all they wanted to do was extend customer play time then they should have partitioned PvP gear - make the base item (chest, legs, whatever) cost a certain amount of Prestige - and then have the subsequent two to three rune slots ALSO cost Prestige to unlock.  Make each rune slot that you are purchasing completely open to your choice - and if you want to modify that particular rune to a different one you simply have to pay for it with. . . . you guessed it. . . . more Prestige.
 
Players now have something to strive for and gear they can customize on their terms.  Carbine has customers logging in play time.  Don't quite understand why this needs to be so difficult. 	
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I loathe RNG overkill, but about this part: No. Just no.
If you got the perfect gear set immediately (not saying you want that, just humor me), would you stop playing the next day? If the game was fun? No? Yeah, thought so. Then why the hell does "giving people crappy drops" imply they want to squeeze more sub time out of their customers?
I can somewhat follow the argument if content is a gear check so you have to grind gear to even pass it. But PvP? Man what? Terrible argument there.
 
I wish people would stop accusing Carbine of greed for every single design "mistake" they make and system they came up with. It's not all about money, for Pete's sake. This doesn't make the resulting game more palatable, but it really annoys me to see these accusations regarding their motivation fly immediately on every occasion.
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Ok so, a few questions. Are you employed? Are you Asian? Can you explain why you support the rng?
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Yes.  No (I think you might be racist though for asking that question). Because this isn't WoW where you get a trinket that drops that 4 different classes can roll on to guarantee they get the best loot.
 
They aren't going to put triple fire on everything if there was no RNG because then there would be no point in having any of the other slot types, so I much rather prefer the chance to get triple fire.  When triple logic is still an upgrade and triple fire will be an upgrade past that, what isn't to love?
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As to this meaning they want us to keep grinding and only care about our money?  Sorry, but when the item dev flat out states things are changing to be more random specifically so people keep grinding for what they want I can look at it no other way.  They wouldn't implement this rune system without taking into account how long (on average) it takes to get the perfect piece, and seeing how they're making (pvp gear at least) MORE random than it was at launch, all I can think is they're trying to make it take that much longer to get the gear we want making us play that much longer, hoping that it rolls over into a new months sub.
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			To be perfectly honest, I'd be happier if the entire Rune System went the way of the dodo. It came late in beta and had very little in the way of heavy revision, because for large chunks of time it flat out wasn't possible to get enough drops to make extensive use of it (still doesn't really).The game went from CBC+Milestones to AMPs, Runes, Tiers, and milestones (smaller because they were much less important).AMPs turned out relatively ok, once the major bugs got stomped and it got a heavy revision. Tiers are solid but in my opinion heavily underutilized (my thoughts on that would be an entire other long post), Runes were meant to substitute for the ability to mix match and modify that came with the CBC system, but they're a failure at that.There's next to no point in using them before 50. They've said they're going to try and fix that, but what they've said they want to try doesn't sound like it will matter. It will be just another gold sink that people will ignore because there are more important things to spend money on, and the benefits won't be there. Instead of pretty clear rules about what and how you could change things in CBC, we have a largely opaque system that has a high barrier to entry before you feel like you're making the right choices to improve your gear. In CBC we had a chance to turn a completely crappy RNG roll into something useful, and a decent RNG roll into something awesome. Runecrafting can do neither. In CBC we could take one aspect of a nice piece of gear we'd outgrown, and carry over into a future piece of gear, and worry less about gaining or losing certain Milestones (though again, milestones were minimized to the point they hardly matter before endgame).As you can see, though I get pegged with being a fanboy or a white knight a lot, there are things I don't like. Difference being, I don't dwell on the things I don't like, and I don't feel the need to throw up lots of sturm and drang in GD forum from the mistaken impression that's a good way to get Carbine to notice. I've said my piece in the right times and the right places, been calm, focused, and drama free, and it's ended up making a lot of positive changes for the game. So I'm confident my thoughts have been heard, and feel no real need to push the issue daily or weekly in multiple threads. 	
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What isn't to love is instead of getting triple fire or triple fusion, you get a single air or single water.  Especially when it's a raid dropped piece that you've been working for weeks to attain, or if it's the 5th time you've bought the same pvp chest and the 5th time you've gotten 1-2 runes both practically useless to your class/role.
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I know what the issue is, so I'm ignoring the first paragraph. We've gone through that in other threads and I still agree just as I did back then.
 
As for the quoted paragraph: Sorry, still not seeing it. The dev saying what he said only means that the system is supposed to give you more opportunity for slow, minor upgrades. I think it's a frustrating, counterproductive way, but I don't see the relation to greed.
People who only repeat content (PvE or PvP) to get items, not because they're having fun... well they're idiots to me. Nothing more. If this is how you play games, you are more of an idiot than I took you for up to now.
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			RNG is what keeps people playing. Simple. Like it or Lump it. Wildstar has it.	
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We're going in circles here.
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To be perfectly honest, I'd be happier if the entire Rune System went the way of the dodo. It came late in beta and had very little in the way of heavy revision, because for large chunks of time it flat out wasn't possible to get enough drops to make extensive use of it (still doesn't really).
 
The game went from CBC+Milestones to AMPs, Runes, Tiers, and milestones (smaller because they were much less important).
 
AMPs turned out relatively ok, once the major bugs got stomped and it got a heavy revision. Tiers are solid but in my opinion heavily underutilized (my thoughts on that would be an entire other long post), Runes were meant to substitute for the ability to mix match and modify that came with the CBC system, but they're a failure at that.
 
There's next to no point in using them before 50. They've said they're going to try and fix that, but what they've said they want to try doesn't sound like it will matter. It will be just another gold sink that people will ignore because there are more important things to spend money on, and the benefits won't be there. Instead of pretty clear rules about what and how you could change things in CBC, we have a largely opaque system that has a high barrier to entry before you feel like you're making the right choices to improve your gear. In CBC we had a chance to turn a completely crappy RNG roll into something useful, and a decent RNG roll into something awesome. Runecrafting can do neither. In CBC we could take one aspect of a nice piece of gear we'd outgrown, and carry over into a future piece of gear, and worry less about gaining or losing certain Milestones (though again, milestones were minimized to the point they hardly matter before endgame).
 
As you can see, though I get pegged with being a fanboy or a white knight a lot, there are things I don't like. Difference being, I don't dwell on the things I don't like, and I don't feel the need to throw up lots of sturm and drang in GD forum from the mistaken impression that's a good way to get Carbine to notice. I've said my piece in the right times and the right places, been calm, focused, and drama free, and it's ended up making a lot of positive changes for the game. So I'm confident my thoughts have been heard, and feel no real need to push the issue daily or weekly in multiple threads.
 
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Which is being addressed when they said that raid gear will drop with 3 slots.  Do you not pay attention?
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RNG is what keeps people playing. Simple. Like it or Lump it. Wildstar has it.
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As you can see, though I get pegged with being a fanboy or a white knight a lot, there are things I don't like. Difference being, I don't dwell on the things I don't like, and I don't feel the need to throw up lots of sturm and drang in GD forum from the mistaken impression that's a good way to get Carbine to notice. I've said my piece in the right times and the right places, been calm, focused, and drama free, and it's ended up making a lot of positive changes for the game. So I'm confident my thoughts have been heard, and feel no real need to push the issue daily or weekly in multiple threads.
 
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RNG is what keeps people playing. Simple. Like it or Lump it. Wildstar has it.
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Because you refuse to see the logical consequence of your argument here.
You're saying intentionally crappy drops are an artificial lenghthening of game time due to greed.
That means better drops = less greed.
That means perfect drops = no greed.
That means if you get the perfect gear very quickly, you can drop the game after a month.
Because that gear set was all you cared about.
Is this how you want the game to be? Is this the good, "non-greedy" approach?
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			The current rune system is just WoW gem system gone asian style.	
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If those 3 slots arent the right colors its salvaged. So what if they make other colors more viable like you will say they've said-then the system is even more pointless. It's just stupid and I'm sorry more people don't see it.
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Getting the perfect gearset should take time due to difficulty of encounters alone. You cannot say that garanteed drops dont work because they just do and millions of WoW subs back that up (sorrynotsorry). They boasted so much before launch about how fast they could push content out (which we now know that their QA team is a bunch of ignorant chimps and thats probably why) and about how difficult it would be. So difficult, frequent content is what was advertised-the gear should be static stats/slots. Especially considering they wanna hold on to their other folly-40 mans. Getting a 40 man guild geared for the next content tier takes PLENTY of time if you've ever done it before you know this. The rng is simply not needed whatsoever in any respect.
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A blanket "RNG is what keeps people playing" statement may be true, but that doesn't mean all RNG is equal. At some point you have to admit there is good RNG and bad RNG. Creating a further gear gap between players in PvP is bad RNG.
 
When I'm watching "Wildstar Weekly" and Frost is dueling people and says "Of course I died to him he has way better gear to me". I see a problem and it's only getting worse with randomized slots.
 
RNG isn't the only way to keep people playing either. You have to agree with that as well. Creating a fun rewarding experience is, in my opinion, the best way to keep people playing. There are multiple avenues of progression they could have chosen to keep the player wanting to play. They chose gear, which I think was a mistake in PvP. Whenever someone is put at a huge disadvantage in PvP simply because of gear, that's a failed system.
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What sub based game has rng akin to this game and is still sub based? The only rng that should be supported by a sub based mmo is "did my item drop this week or not". So list me some successful mmos with systems like this. 
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Game needs more RNG. 
 
I propose RNG on character select. The same type you get after a challenge, that item roulette. Have you're highest level characters in the 'Good Luck' category, mid-level characters in the 'Average Odds' and lowest in 'Best Chance'. If you only have one character the game will randomly create a level one character for you to fill the empty slots. 
 
You can then spend Elder Gems to increases the odds, x2, x4, x10 etc of getting to play the character you want. Really want to raid tonight on your 50? Spend more Elder Gems. Also, if you don't get the character you wanted to play that night? You can try again in 30 minutes.
 
Hopefully it came across clearly that I find the amount of RNG in this game absolutely absurd. 
 
Some RNG good. 
 
RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG with more RNG and a side helping of RNG sprinkled with RNG. Seriously? No, thanks.	
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Game needs more RNG.
 
I propose RNG on character select. The same type you get after a challenge, that item roulette. Have you're highest level characters in the 'Good Luck' category, mid-level characters in the 'Average Odds' and lowest in 'Best Chance'. If you only have one character the game will randomly create a level one character for you to fill the empty slots.
 
You can then spend Elder Gems to increases the odds, x2, x4, x10 etc of getting to play the character you want. Really want to raid tonight on your 50? Spend more Elder Gems. Also, if you don't get the character you wanted to play that night? You can try again in 30 minutes.
 
Hopefully it came across clearly that I find the amount of RNG in this game absolutely absurd.
 
Some RNG good.
 
RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG with more RNG and a side helping of RNG sprinkled with RNG. Seriously? No, thanks.
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If you want those other games, go play them.  This is Wildstar.
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How is it more pointless?  I mean, they could purposely misitemize gear even more so than they have done now to guarantee upgrades without too much power creep.  Would you prefer they do that?
 
When I read what you are writing, all I hear is a child screaming because they got ice cream but not with sprinkles.
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Because you refuse to see the logical consequence of your argument here.
You're saying intentionally crappy drops are an artificial lenghthening of game time due to greed.
That means better drops = less greed.
That means perfect drops = no greed.
That means if you get the perfect gear very quickly, you can drop the game after a month.
Because that gear set was all you cared about.
Is this how you want the game to be? Is this the good, "non-greedy" approach?
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I don't get paid to design their game for starters bu theres plenty of good ideas out there from others and even examples in other games (NO WAY!). When you mistakenly hear what you think is a child whining about sprinkles, what you really hear is your choice to be content with mediocrity getting stepped on by my desire for quality. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way. 
 
In your fun little analogy the actual crime is that the ice cream was made with rotten milk. No amount of sprinkles would fix that. Doesn't stop Carbine from trying though I guess.
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When they fix rune slots the way they have said they will, all epics will be upgrades from blue gear.  Even epics that roll triple logic.  But that isn't good enough.  You are whining about sprinkles.
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If you want those other games, go play them.  This is Wildstar.
 
Also, all of them.  Because if they are sub-based, then they are sub-based.
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When they fix rune slots the way they have said they will, all epics will be upgrades from blue gear.  Even epics that roll triple logic.  But that isn't good enough.  You are whining about sprinkles.
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What sub based game has rng akin to this game and is still sub based? The only rng that should be supported by a sub based mmo is "did my item drop this week or not". So list me some successful mmos with systems like this. 
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Did you even read my post? wtf?
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And what are the chances of perfect drops?  Less than 1%?  On top of that, look at practically every other MMO in existence.  None of them have anywhere near as much bullshit RNG that Wildstar has.  
 
The good "non-greedy" approach would be to let us change the slot colors and even add slots with currency.  Be it Elder Gems, Prestiege, Crafting materials, or flat out gold.  Instead, we have the system that it is now where it encourages rerunning content well past what you should, or buying multiple, sometimes dozens of the same item just to get good rune makeup.  If you can't see how that's a blinding tell of greed from Carbine, I don't know what to tell you.  It seems your set on your opinion, I'm set on mine.
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Most games start out as RNG and then become less RNG as players realize the system is purely about artificially creating more grind to harvest more cash.
 
Wildstar is doing the opposite which is mind boggling. The sheer level of incompetence at Carbine is incredible. I wish people would stop trying to baby devs who are this greedy and stupid.	
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So Diablo 2 was a greedy game on Blizzard's part because people ended up playing literally ten-thousands of hours for perfect stat roll + rune set items?
Oh wait, it was a single player game.
But as soon as a subscription comes into play everything is suddenly about greed. Ridiculous.
Again: Wildstar's RNG is way too much. Motivated by greed? Sincerely doubt it. It's merely another move in the same pattern as many other aspects of the game. They took a good idea that works in other games and turned it up to 150% (i.e. too much).
 
 
Anyway, yeah... we are both set on our opinions I guess, so no point in arguing further.
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Most games start out as RNG and then become less RNG as players realize the system is purely about artificially creating more grind to harvest more cash.
 
Wildstar is doing the opposite which is mind boggling. The sheer level of incompetence at Carbine is incredible. I wish people would stop trying to baby devs who are this greedy and stupid.
----
			
Players secretly love RNG
 
People LOVE the gamble.. you may claim you dont like the RNG but if it ever gets taken away.. you will start to feel like the game is stuck in a monotone feel, and things being stagnant, and boring.. and it becomes even more grindy..
 
Everytime you see a epic loot drop.. your heart races.. and that need button for it feels like you are about to roll the dice for a big win,
 
MMO players look for the thrill and the adrenaline rush much like almost downing a raid boss.. except on the RNG loot, they just dont realize it.Deny it all you want, its true	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Diablo 2 or diablo 3? I remember D2 being about just getting the item, as soon as you got them you were set. But I was much younger then and don't remember if items were better on different drops. D3 though, that was a huge mess with items and RNG badness
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Diablo 2 or diablo 3? I remember D2 being about just getting the item, as soon as you got them you were set. But I was much younger then and don't remember if items were better on different drops. D3 though, that was a huge mess with items and RNG badness
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Trolls gonna troll. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Players secretly love RNG
 
People LOVE the gamble.. you may claim you dont like the RNG but if it ever gets taken away.. you will start to feel like the game is stuck in a monotone feel, and things being stagnant, and boring.. and it becomes even more grindy..
 
Everytime you see a epic loot drop.. your heart races.. and that need button for it feels like you are about to roll the dice for a big win,
 
MMO players look for the thrill and the adrenaline rush much like almost downing a raid boss.. except on the RNG loot, they just dont realize it.
 
Deny it all you want, its true
----
			
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Yep, because someone has the gall to disagree with you, they must be a troll.  How righteous you are that your opinion is fact and all other should acquiesce to you in all matters Wildstar.  Only peons can enjoy RNG, just like those who buy lottery tickets.  Nevermind the fact that Baccarat is a thing, you are the alpha and the omega of game design and what it takes to make a successful game.  You are the Putin to Carbine's Gorbachev.  I apologize most sincerely for thinking that my opinion could mean anything in this Nottino-centric world that you have been so kindly to bestow upon the rest of us.  Hail to the King.  Amen.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sorry, that prolly went over your head.
Lets go with...haters gonna hate.
----
			
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Yep, because someone has the gall to disagree with you, they must be a troll.  How righteous you are that your opinion is fact and all other should acquiesce to you in all matters Wildstar.  Only peons can enjoy RNG, just like those who buy lottery tickets.  Nevermind the fact that Baccarat is a thing, you are the alpha and the omega of game design and what it takes to make a successful game.  You are the Putin to Carbine's Gorbachev.  I apologize most sincerely for thinking that my opinion could mean anything in this Nottino-centric world that you have been so kindly to bestow upon the rest of us.  Hail to the King.  Amen.
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and my point
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So Diablo 2 was a greedy game on Blizzard's part because people ended up playing literally ten-thousands of hours for perfect stat roll + rune set items?
Oh wait, it was a single player game.
But as soon as a subscription comes into play everything is suddenly about greed. Ridiculous.
Again: Wildstar's RNG is way too much. Motivated by greed? Sincerely doubt it. It's merely another move in the same pattern as many other aspects of the game. They took a good idea that works in other games and turned it up to 150% (i.e. too much).
 
 
Anyway, yeah... we are both set on our opinions I guess, so no point in arguing further.
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Sorry, any level of emphasis or intensity will just summon The Horde to quote one line where you used an absolute (all, every, never) and drill down on you about that for the next three pages, if they don't just deflect or derail it with roleplaying.
 
People know the Rune Slot RNG is garbage and that Carbine is looking at overhauling the entire affair. But there are certain tones the forum won't allow.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
C'mon man, Diablo II had no sub fee.  That's comparing apples to moonbeams.
And while it may not have started off motivated by greed and could have been pure ignorance, when they actively make changes after the launch specifically to make people grind more and more, that's greed.
----
			
First off Nottino you post everyday how they need to fix rng and get everyone worked up about it.  I still stand by my opinion that RNG in this game is good.  I'm not going to go into how much I play this game and the amount of near perfect items (fire fire fusion fusion, water 3 fusion) I've seen drop but legitiamently if you have put in an ample amount of time and nothing as dropped for you then I am calling bs on it.  The rune slots make me hold onto items I would normall discard.  Where as a min maxer I can say, well this would help me (tank)  with my persercartion set but I lose a shield specialist, then when I get an additional rune from another piece its makes that gear awesome, and pow upgrade. 
 
I was dungeon geared after the first month, now I hope for some RNG rediculous item that has my perfect slots.  If I get it, OP!! If not whatever, my gear is still great.  Mainly people complaining dont know how to farm loot.  Go kill Tugga 100x or kill Grond, farm sword maiden.  Make a ton of money and buy it.  If you worry yourself so much about carbine making money, then you know that rare expensive crafting and boe items will increase there credd sales.  
 
The purpose of amazing gear is for it to be rare.  By your formula I would have been gear maxed 2 months ago and would have stopped playing because I couldn't progress in any manner.  I urge everyone to be very careful what they ask for when it comes to RNG because the current system is pretty damn good.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The bolded part is good news if true.
 
This however seems to fly in the face of that previous statement.  If the system is acknowledged as flawed, why on God's green earth is the system being EXPANDED upon?
 
That's the stuff that makes me facepalm right into a facedesk.  And I actually really enjoy the game, just the degree of RNG has to be tamed.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First off Nottino you post everyday how they need to fix rng and get everyone worked up about it.  I still stand by my opinion that RNG in this game is good.  I'm not going to go into how much I play this game and the amount of near perfect items (fire fire fusion fusion, water 3 fusion) I've seen drop but legitiamently if you have put in an ample amount of time and nothing as dropped for you then I am calling bs on it.  The rune slots make me hold onto items I would normall discard.  Where as a min maxer I can say, well this would help me (tank)  with my persercartion set but I lose a shield specialist, then when I get an additional rune from another piece its makes that gear awesome, and pow upgrade. 
 
I was dungeon geared after the first month, now I hope for some RNG rediculous item that has my perfect slots.  If I get it, OP!! If not whatever, my gear is still great.  Mainly people complaining dont know how to farm loot.  Go kill Tugga 100x or kill Grond, farm sword maiden.  Make a ton of money and buy it.  If you worry yourself so much about carbine making money, then you know that rare expensive crafting and boe items will increase there credd sales.  
 
The purpose of amazing gear is for it to be rare.  By your formula I would have been gear maxed 2 months ago and would have stopped playing because I couldn't progress in any manner.  I urge everyone to be very careful what they ask for when it comes to RNG because the current system is pretty damn good.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
C'mon man, Diablo II had no sub fee.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dungeon gear=/=endgame. Things are different when you organize 20 people to devote their time to something and way different for 40. Talk about waste.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First off Nottino you post everyday how they need to fix rng and get everyone worked up about it.  I still stand by my opinion that RNG in this game is good.  I'm not going to go into how much I play this game and the amount of near perfect items (fire fire fusion fusion, water 3 fusion) I've seen drop but legitiamently if you have put in an ample amount of time and nothing as dropped for you then I am calling bs on it.  The rune slots make me hold onto items I would normall discard.  Where as a min maxer I can say, well this would help me (tank)  with my persercartion set but I lose a shield specialist, then when I get an additional rune from another piece its makes that gear awesome, and pow upgrade. 
 
I was dungeon geared after the first month, now I hope for some RNG rediculous item that has my perfect slots.  If I get it, OP!! If not whatever, my gear is still great.  Mainly people complaining dont know how to farm loot.  Go kill Tugga 100x or kill Grond, farm sword maiden.  Make a ton of money and buy it.  If you worry yourself so much about carbine making money, then you know that rare expensive crafting and boe items will increase there credd sales.  
 
The purpose of amazing gear is for it to be rare.  By your formula I would have been gear maxed 2 months ago and would have stopped playing because I couldn't progress in any manner.  I urge everyone to be very careful what they ask for when it comes to RNG because the current system is pretty damn good.  
----
			You see, Nottino knows that the majority of people quitting are quitting solely due to RNG in runeslots.  He is god and has access to all the server information to know these things.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You see, Nottino knows that the majority of people quitting are quitting solely due to RNG in runeslots.  He is god and has access to all the server information to know these things.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Man... that was exactly my point.
If you artificially lengthen a game without sub, you're alright (or somewhat deluded at best, though people did love D2)... but if you do it in a sub game, you're automatically greedy?
Doesn't make sense to me. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I feel like I'm getting trolled.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I feel like I'm getting trolled.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and to assume that they aren't quitting because of this and other big issues is very fanboyish. Bow down before me!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And yet no one is jumping to your defense. (Or mine, for that matter, but if my points were that absurd, surely someone else but you would protest)
----
			
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No, people are quitting mostly due to mistakes on part of Carbine in regard to pvp and because this game is too hard for them.  I have no problem with people quitting because the game is too hard.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, people are quitting mostly due to mistakes on part of Carbine in regard to pvp and because this game is too hard for them.  I have no problem with people quitting because the game is too hard.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
lol the PvP community was no where close to the PvE community and the hard part of the game is directly in relation the the stupid RNG. Thanks for helping me prove it :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
RNG isn't difficulty.  They had a problem with silver dungeons mostly.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and to assume that they aren't quitting because of this and other big issues is very fanboyish. Bow down before me!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pics or it didn't happen! (No but seriously, there is no evidence that more people than the usual band wagon glut have left)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Please don't make me link multiple threads of people quitting... please?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thats true I think Nottino has quite 10 times already due to RNG, so thats 10 people right there.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pics or it didn't happen! (No but seriously, there is no evidence that more people than the usual band wagon glut have left)
 
It wasn't carbine's mistake; they intentionally created a challenging game. it's mistakes on our part (the players) thinking that we were special awesome snowflakes and that clearly the 'hardcore' Carbine was discussing was far beneath our own obviously superior skill.....
----
			When it comes down to it, people complain about RNG because they know they could have better gear, and they can't beat dungeons.  So they blame the fact on not being able to beat dungeons on not having better gear.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When it comes down to it, people complain about RNG because they know they could have better gear, and they can't beat dungeons.  So they blame the fact on not being able to beat dungeons on not having better gear.  
----
			I think this is probably the least constructive thread I've viewed in a long time. A somewhat valid point mixed among a sea of hyperboles, trolling and digital high fiving from the same culprits. Can we get a lock already?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pics or it didn't happen! (No but seriously, there is no evidence that more people than the usual band wagon glut have left)
 
It wasn't carbine's mistake; they intentionally created a challenging game. it's mistakes on our part (the players) thinking that we were special awesome snowflakes and that clearly the 'hardcore' Carbine was discussing was far beneath our own obviously superior skill.....
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
LOL GAME IS TOO HARD!! CLASSIC! The game in no way is too "hard". Theres some tedium and oh yeah POINTLESS RNG, none of these things are "hard" (#hardcore). You are def a fanboy wearing the blinders. You probably think ArenaNet was a smart dev team too. Gimmie a break.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When it comes down to it, people complain about RNG because they know they could have better gear, and they can't beat dungeons.  So they blame the fact on not being able to beat dungeons on not having better gear.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
but.....the randomness and inequality of runeslots have been noted as an overbearing issue by community and devs...so......there is that...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
but.....the randomness and inequality of runeslots have been noted as an overbearing issue by community and devs...so......there is that...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think this is probably the least constructive thread I've viewed in a long time. A somewhat valid point mixed among a sea of hyperboles, trolling and digital high fiving from the same culprits. Can we get a lock already?
----
			
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Yes, they are making it so that we don't scale as much on AP, and making gear at each level drop the same number of slots, and making it so that when you get double logic, you dont immediately shard it because it is still and upgrade.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When it comes down to it, people complain about RNG because they know they could have better gear, and they can't beat dungeons.  So they blame the fact on not being able to beat dungeons on not having better gear.  
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The same number of rune slots thing has been talked about, but its just an idea.  Crafting community was pretty verbal that we don't want this.  Also a reason why smart crafters are just hoarding there 4 slot pieces ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes, they are making it so that we don't scale as much on AP, and making gear at each level drop the same number of slots, and making it so that when you get double logic, you dont immediately shard it because it is still and upgrade.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The same number of rune slots thing has been talked about, but its just an idea.  Crafting community was pretty verbal that we don't want this.  Also a reason why smart crafters are just hoarding there 4 slot pieces ;)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine won't release sub data from launch to now. I would be willing to bet its a downward sloping line graph though. The financial analysts for NC project a profit loss for this game steadily downward though-and that has been posted on the forums somewhere and accessible online. Google away fanboy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And my point, if they are trying to normalize rune slots and pretty much make it pointless of which one you get, then again, why have them random at all? If it doesn't matter what rune slots I get, since it will always be an upgrade, why not make them static and linear so I know what runes to have in my bag to immediately upgrade the item if it drops and wear it then and there?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You might rightfully call me a FF fanboy, but not a W* FB by far... 
 
I have seen the analysis for W*; its on par > the expected earnings from Lineage 2. As a niche game that bodes pretty well for W*, if it can stay on par with L2 NCsoft. But hey, everyone who is a reasonable game consumer and has played more games than World of WTFBBQOMG is instantly a fanboy / white knight...
 
Logic is truly lost on some 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It doesn't matter what their earnings are vs a game that has 2% of the MMO gaming community. That doesn't matter when servers are barren and the forums have gone from hope and happiness to dread and terror. Again I am tired of being nice and trying to rationalize with people and wildstar, they need to realize that this is a huge issue and needs to be addressed the right way instead of something that isn't going to fix anything
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Constructive were the months of feedback in beta. The gloves have to come off eventually. Digital high fives are awesome. Who the *cupcake*are you anyway? Locking threads is just evidence of butthurt staffers. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because some slots will still be better than others, it just won't be a disappointment to get double or triple logic.  I have already said this multiple times in this thread.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You might rightfully call me a FF fanboy, but not a W* FB by far... 
 
I have seen the analysis for W*; its on par > the expected earnings from Lineage 2. As a niche game that bodes pretty well for W*, if it can stay on par with L2 NCsoft will be more than happy with it. But hey, everyone who is a reasonable game consumer and has played more games than World of WTFBBQOMG is instantly a fanboy / white knight...
 
Logic is truly lost on some 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right, cause I'm sure this will be just the fuel they need to revamp the system, rather than casually discard this to the fire as just another flame war.
 
Rather upset and aggressive aren't we? Think I can recommend some shampoo for you:
 
 
----
			
My god. Everyone is just CRYING over this.
 
I understand you are frustrated that you are not able to easily obtain your desired gear. I get it. I live it everyday, because I too am still looking for that "BiS" piece of gear, with great rune slots.
 
Here's the thing.
 
These "BIS" items are not need at all to complete content in this game.
 
That's right folks, these loots that you are all crying about so much, isn't even needed to proceed into GA, complete dungeons, dailies, or run around in circles in Thayd.
 
Everyone needs to step back and realize - this is not WOW. Wildstar is not in the business of handing out "BiS" loots. So step back, smell the roses, and realize that you don't have to stress yourself out over this stuff.
 
These purples, although they are nice (oooOooO purple), they are only SLIGHT upgrades to the blues which are so readily dropping like hotcakes.
 
I know you all want to look and "decked out" without stepping foot in GA. I think the realization that you can't have it all is setting in, and totally get where you are coming from.
 
But calm the *cupcake* down. You're only making yourself look foolish.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Considering there's like three active conversations going on and the thread has gone from 2 pages to 6 in slightly over an hour, I doubt it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You are the reason why the forums are full of dread and terror.  You are the problem, complaining about things that have already been addressed.
----
			
First of all, you are going to carry around runes for gear that prolly won't drop each week just for the hope of being able to upgrade them super quick instead of the 5 minutes it takes you to run to Thayd real quick?
 
Second, the reason why RNG is good.
 
Week 3 of raiding:  WOOT, EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED!  AND I WON THEM!
Weeks 4 - 12 of raiding, everyone else gets there EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS.
Week 15: HEY EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED WITH A FIRE SLOT INSTEAD OF A LOGIC SLOT, ITS AN UPGRADE AND I CAN GET IT, WOOT!	
----
			
People that like this level of rng is the minority, thats a fact.
 
Asian style rng was never (NEVER) aceptable in the western market, except that very small population we call minority, and they werent even close to enough to keep games like Lienage, lineage 2, Aion, RO ( <insert any asian mmo not westernized here>) going.
 
RNG and western market is like oil and water, and i dont think its carbine being greedy, i think its just flat incompetence... as it doesnt make sense to use a hated system to be greedy..... being <insert limited inteligence insult> and incompetent makes more sense.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First of all, you are going to carry around runes for gear that prolly won't drop each week just for the hope of being able to upgrade them super quick instead of the 5 minutes it takes you to run to Thayd real quick?
 
Second, the reason why RNG is good.
 
Week 3 of raiding:  WOOT, EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED!  AND I WON THEM!
Weeks 4 - 12 of raiding, everyone else gets there EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS.
Week 15: HEY EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED WITH A FIRE SLOT INSTEAD OF A LOGIC SLOT, ITS AN UPGRADE AND I CAN GET IT, WOOT!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right, cause I'm sure this will be just the fuel they need to revamp the system, rather than casually discard this to the fire as just another flame war.
 
Rather upset and aggressive aren't we? Think I can recommend some shampoo for you:
 
----
			Honestly I've given Ideas how to at least make this situation better, and I agree with the OP albeit not as hostilely...yet. The RNG runes slot crap needs to stop. Like yesterday.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You might rightfully call me a FF fanboy, but not a W* FB by far... 
 
I have seen the analysis for W*; its on par > the expected earnings from Lineage 2. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and this just proves how delusional you are.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
go look at the forums from the espers or the medics and see how nice and friendly they were to get Carbine to pay attention. Let me know how that goes for you. Call it crying, call it whining, call it whatever you want. I call it making a point and not pulling any punches to try and be cheeky. They need to understand the system is crap and their new review is crap too
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and this just proves how delusional you are.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Typrop 
Posted Today, 10:31 AM
I think simply having a way to "reforge" rune slots would be nice...
 
Perhaps even just having a way to "force" a talisman in a slot at the cost of its effectiveness?
Like if I wanted to put a +physical resist into a life rune slot that would give me +222 if it were an actual physical resist slot it'd give me +180 instead or whatever lower slot would be. This lets people rune how they feel best sutis them and while it's not the ABSOLUTE best, still allows them to get close.
 
I can't recall actual percentages of each slot, but to further explain and using random simply numbers.
 
In this scenario we're using a 1 slot weapon.
Let's say that 1st slot is 100% , 2nd slot is 75%(again I don't remember actual percentages ofhand)
 
My weapon has a logic slot but I want a +health rune put on it, which would come normally from earth and life runes.
 
I make the+health anyway and plop it in the logic slot. Normally I would get +400 health, BUT because it's not a matching slot a penalty is put in and instead of getting 100%, I get 75% of the benefit from that rune, resulting in +300 health...
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
your point?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You already *cupcake*ed up in the second line-which is where I stopped reading because you didn't deserve it beyond that. NOWHERE in this thread has anyone asked for obtaining the piece of gear to be easy you ignorant mule. Nowhere...Attaining the gear should be difficult for reasons NOT RNG. You think the systems in place make this game "hard" you are truly lost.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
First of all, you are going to carry around runes for gear that prolly won't drop each week just for the hope of being able to upgrade them super quick instead of the 5 minutes it takes you to run to Thayd real quick?
 
Second, the reason why RNG is good.
 
Week 3 of raiding:  WOOT, EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED!  AND I WON THEM!
Weeks 4 - 12 of raiding, everyone else gets there EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS.
Week 15: HEY EPIC BOOTS OF AWESOMENESS DROPPED WITH A FIRE SLOT INSTEAD OF A LOGIC SLOT, ITS AN UPGRADE AND I CAN GET IT, WOOT!
----
			
Gather around children. RNG in game will always make people rage, but will always be present. Carbine ain't opting for RNG because it's an easy solution or they are lazy. They are doing it because it work.
 
Let me tell you the tales of Mr. B.F. Skinner. Mr.Skinner was a behaviorist at the source of all RPG using a random system. For more information, google his experiment called the Skinner Box. Basicly, put a bird in a cage, and teach him to push a button to received food. It will take a couple try, but he will learn and push the button when hungry. Now put the same bird in a cage with a button, but this time, it only give food 1/5 of the time (drop rate of 20%). And look how now he will push the button more time to received his food, and will continue to push even when not hungry.
 
Random is what make the MMO consume so many hour of so many people, and that's why we love it. The little chance of having the loot we want, even if we don't need it. Thanks Mr. Skinner, cuz I LOVE MMO  ^.^	
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Oh dang this threads on fire lol, and I'm a tad confused now....(might be because I haven't eaten all day and the office cat won't leave me the frak alone)
Are we talking specifically about Runeslot RNG or about RNG of Wildstar in general?
 
I'm aware of the proposed changes to runeslots coming up which I'm glad to see and it makes balancing a bit easier and whatnot.
 
That said though I just know that they (J-tal) vaguely hinted at looking for ways to redo the runeslots, in the sense of replacing the slots themself. So earlier just made a suggestion, because it is a bit of a concern that even if the rune slots themselves are normalized in number of slots some are useless for a specific roll of a class. As an example +health is far better than using Grit unless you're at a milestone and even then it can still be quite inferior. Assault power isn't the only stat that needs to be looked at basically...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not happy about some stuff in the game, I'm still waiting for specific fixes that do irk me but I see no merit in this. I agree the RNG system doesn't make sense in the current iteration, but I do the see the end picture they're going for.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm not happy about some stuff in the game, I'm still waiting for specific fixes that do irk me but I see no merit in this. I agree the RNG system doesn't make sense in the current iteration, but I do the see the end picture they're going for.
 
Classy like spouting "who the **** are you"? That's real mature as well. Not that I really need to justify myself to an obvious troll.
----
			Just copy/paste wow gem system and be done with it.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You miss so much in this. Mostly having to do with ya know. Reality. How many players are pissed that their raid drop is more or less shit? What about Johnny No-Life who takes another 2 sets of boots from people who don't even have them yet because they rolled better slots? Holy hell its like....a whole new world of logic and reason huh? Week 15 of raiding may or may not happen because the system is bad. So many things wrong with this.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When their fixes they have said they are working on go into place, their raid drop won't be more or less shit because of runeslots.
If Johnny No-Life takes 2 sets of boots before other people have them, you have a shit guild.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When their fixes they have said they are working on go into place, their raid drop won't be more or less shit because of runeslots.
If Johnny No-Life takes 2 sets of boots before other people have them, you have a shit guild.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah this kind of post is really hard to take seriously.
 
Sacramento: Have you... thought this scenario through in your head? Thought about how long exactly it would take to get an entire 20man (let's not start on 40man) geared? With this kind of system?
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Well when we try to make normal posts with outlined details of why the RNG is bad, the people that defend the game in every facet that can't see that the game is in a bad spot come and defend it to the core and don't care how bad it stinks. So I don't care about trying to be nice about it any more, now it's just calling them out for how stupid their decisions are.
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My normal post outlining why the RNG is bad and offering a substitute didn't earn any disrespect yet.
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My normal post outlining why the RNG is bad and offering a substitute didn't earn any disrespect yet.
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Well when we try to make normal posts with outlined details of why the RNG is bad, the people that defend the game in every facet that can't see that the game is in a bad spot come and defend it to the core and don't care how bad it stinks. So I don't care about trying to be nice about it any more, now it's just calling them out for how stupid their decisions are.
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When did RNG become stupid? Was this before or after it was the entire bases of the progenitors of the fantasy RPG genre? Come on folks, I can't honestly believe NONE of you played D&D, or Warhammer Table Tops, 
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linky linky
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Not to completely discredit the more ... passionate way of phrasing one's concerns, not everyone can reach your level of epic post typing. Unrealistic standards!  ;)
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https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/106382-treatise-pve-systems-improvements/
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not to be that guy but it only took 5 posts to get a negative response
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That's very kind of you to say, thank you! :D
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not to be that guy but it only took 5 posts to get a negative response
 
and the post was about PvE in general and not just the RNG so apple's to orange's unfortunately here
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D&D and Warhammer =/= Wildstar. MMOs=/= table top games
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read : 'Progenitors'
 
The RPG genre all started with completely RNG based pen / paper games; which evolved to table tops; which evolved into LARP and computer RPGs; which evolved into MMORPG's.
 
You are very welcome to not personally enjoy RNG; but to deny that RNG has been the basis of RPG's since their very beginnings is just folly. RNG is an integral part of every rpg; pen and paper to MMORPG.
 
IMO the added RNG on gear makes folks use a more diverse gear set and effectively prevents a practical 'BiS' set up. I like that; others don't. That's cool, a diversity of opinions is cool, but it doesn't break the game. 
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You think Mike was being disrespectful or negative because he had some concerns and questions?
 
Nah, I don't think anyone's been disrespectful yet.  I don't have a problem with people disagreeing and offering other ideas.  I already posted an addendum to the original to modify the treatise for excellent suggestions from the community I hadn't thought of during the writing of it.
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And to assume that every game that comes out today that is considered an MMORPG will follow and care about this progression is assuming too much. The genres were made and games were placed in them. Carbine made an MMO based on what they wanted it to be, not because they had any care of what the generational progression was of table top to MMORPG
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Um, to assume every RPG is indeed based around RNG is not assuming too much. But to be fare Nott, if you feel otherwise I'm open to be shown an RPG or MMORPG which isn't based on RNG. 
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Hey everyone,
 
Since this thread has gone so far sideways, I'm going to go ahead and lock this one now. Thanks to everyone who posted constructive replies and feedback.
 
~Team WildStar	
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