123668-player-etiquette

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What is the unspoken etiquette for players concerning world bosses, raids and other big group content?
 
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My concern came to light just as I was joining a world boss recently. Normally I’ll join in as a solo player due to my perception of others' attitude, etiquette, and zeal for whatever they (we) maybe playing on. However I decided to join a group, as I have been having a better experience with group play more recently, and yet it became apparent that will be always one person with an egotistical attitude that I’ll have a run in with as the groups gets larger. The role I choose to play often is a tank, all the while striving to improve my game, threat management, and attentiveness as I game on. Naturally there will be others that choose to play the role of tank, and they come with a variety of good reasons to do so too. So it was safe to assume there was a better geared tank than I am, since I recently hit 50 on my tank about a week and a half ago. As we waited for others to gather up near the world boss I got a tell one of the other two tanks to switch to DPS.  Prior to the whisper the same tank was moping on how they should be the only solo tank selected for the world boss in the party chat.
 
“Switch to DPS, I want to tank.”
 
“I don’t have a DPS build.” I replied to the tank.
 
“What? How can you not have a DPS build?”
 
“Simple, I don’t have the gear, and I don’t have the setup for it.” I told them.
 
I find it harder for me to get myself a set of two separate gears as I choose to establish a small guild, I game when I am able to due to wonky work hours, and I do play other characters often and not stick to one to min-max their stats.  Now this tank was better geared than I was so I would have no problem letting them tank the world boss, and yet, I still would like to have the experience of tanking a world boss. Due to the nature and perception of the whispers I felt there was no compromise to be had.
 
“That’s why carbine made LAS 3 and 4 so you can have a DPS build.”
 
“My other build is a tank build.” I proceeded despite how much as I want to get sarcastic and snippy with the tank. While it was true that my build is another, albeit different, support build, I choose my own play style, and I choose not to intervene with others' own styles, even stoop as low as to mock them as I was experiencing now.  I also knew about the other two limited action builder sets, but I simply could not unlock them yet as I am capped at earning elder gems for the week, and still fresh level 50 as well on the chosen character.
 
“So how would you feel if the other tank didn’t go to DPS mode?”
 
“Wing it.” I simply retorted, as by then I notice the whispering tank did switch builds and mode into DPS. Now I feel as if this tank is throwing a temper tantrum akin to a toddler, and yet I feel affected as I now want to quit the whole event and let that tank have their way. Yet, I choose to stay, not to spite them, but so I can experience the event as a group.
 
“Well good luck in tanking” was the last tell I got from them. About five minutes later they rant about my character not wanting to give up tanking in the party chat while a friend of theirs chimed on how they are a great raid tank and they should be main solo-tanking the world boss.
 
…
 
We still have two other tanks, than I, at that point. So another guilt trip spurred up but was ignored by the populous.
 
However, now this tantrum has affected my attention span to the game as I contemplate on quitting the game for the day. I notice it also has affected my tanking as I made several rudimentary mistakes, more often than I prefer to, nearly killing myself twice in the process while we fought the world boss. In the end I did live, however I felt I was not up to par in my tanking skills and proceed to bow out of the next group activity.
 
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Now my main quarry is:
 
Should other tanks bow out to a more better geared and the chance of a more experienced tank?
 
How is a player expected get the necessary experience from big group content if they are told change up their play style? (I.E. DPS >> Healer )
 
If there already is a Tank in a raid, World Boss, etc. Should all other tanks quit? Bow out? Or should they all have a DPS build even if don’t have / cannot afford the gear for it?
 
What are the unspoken expected Ratios of each class archetype? Tanks 1:20? Healers 4:20? DPS 16:20?
 
Are there other unspoken rules that other players need to know about?	
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Based on the raiding I did in other games (and I'm sorry to some folk out there, but raiding in WS is exactly the same as raiding everywhere else):
 
Should other tanks bow out to a more better geared and the chance of a more experienced tank?
 
This should only happens if the current tank is having trouble holding aggro or is otherwise poor at his job (Note: not being able to hold aggro is not an immediate sign that the tank is doing a poor job: a tank that isn't geared enough but that is doing everything perfectly will still lose against overpowering Damage Dealers who refuse to slow down). If the tank is doing fine, there's no good reason to change it. Specially if he doesn't have a DPS build available.
 
How is a player expected get the necessary experience from big group content if they are told change up their play style? (I.E. DPS >> Healer )
 
Being able to adapt to the alternate role of your class is ussually a good thing. It gives the group versatility and it allows you to learn through direct experience what the 'duties' and caveats that role has to deal with. 
At the same time, if you have a heavy dislike for a particular role, the group shouldn't be forcing you into it. The only solution to avoid people being silly and refusing to adapt to your lack of a certain build is to get into a regular or semi-regular group that can afford that type of static role taking.
Besides, getting your third and fourth LASes takes a while, so expecting everyone to have them is a bit unrealistic.
 
If there already is a Tank in a raid, World Boss, etc. Should all other tanks quit? Bow out? Or should they all have a DPS build even if don’t have / cannot afford the gear for it?
 
As long as their pressence isn't greatly detrimental to the experience (for example, if the ammount of tanks means there's not enough DPS or healers to bring the boss down), there's no reason to quit. This depends heavily on the encounter and it kind of requires foreknowledge (or a knowledgeable leader). Having an alternate build that doesn't overlap with your other one is a good thing for this exact reason, though.
This is of course assuming the boss doesn't require multiple tanks.
 
What are the unspoken expected Ratios of each class archetype? Tanks 1:20? Healers 4:20? DPS 16:20?
 
I have no idea about his. I believe that one tank is ussually enough, and so that's the standard. But don't quote me on that.
 
Are there other unspoken rules that other players need to know about?
 
Be HARDCORE!	
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For me personally I only tank, because i hate DPS role. However I also understand this limits my flexibility in group environments to a degree. It sounds like you're mainly havbing issues in open owrld though as a raiding guild or organization would have talked and figured this out ahead of time of who is doing what. I believe that if you feel there is a better suiited tank or you want to personally bow out, but don't want to change your AMP build and don't ahve the gear, simply switch your stance so you're not giving threat issues for the designated tank.
 
Should other tanks bow out to a more better geared and the chance of a more experienced tank?
 
This would be between you and the other tank(s). This is not jsut a tank issue, but rather a personality issue of communication. In this situation as you describe  it you shouldn't ffeel bad at all. This is your play style and you are not in their guild nor under their leadership directly, but if that person wishes to be the primary tank AND other people i nthe raid wish that person to be the main tank jsut switch your stance and perform an offtank/backup tank role.
 
The best thing you can do is ask if the group has a maintank already if one is not marked accordingly as you join. If no one speaks up and there isnt a marked tank set it's all yours.
 
How is a player expected get the necessary experience from big group content if they are told change up their play style? (I.E. DPS >> Healer )
 
This is a rare occurrence and at least from my own experience there is usually more than one tank, but they don't mark themselves correctly in open world.
 
In open world there really isn't much in terms of a high learning curve like in an instanced raid so you can just pretty much tank and spank it. A lot fo these fights are observation based and not mechanical like their instanced counterparts.
 
In a instanced raid environment you have to have people willing to let you learn first hand, but also you can look at videos and talk to other tanks along side this. It's never the same as actually doing the fight, but it gives you some insight.
 
If there already is a Tank in a raid, World Boss, etc. Should all other tanks quit? Bow out? Or should they all have a DPS build even if don’t have / cannot afford the gear for it?
 
In a raid situation you would have discussed this with your guild as a whole so everyone including yourself would or should be aware of the roles people are performing.
 
For world bosses and events though it's really fair game unless someone basically calls dibs on tanking. IF you don't have an alternate DPS build just switch your stance to DPS stance and take on the role as a backup tank. This way if the primary tank(s) are having issues and or die you can switch stance, intimidate and take over the role of primary tank.
 
What are the unspoken expected Ratios of each class archetype? Tanks 1:20? Healers 4:20? DPS 16:20?
 
In open world it really doesn't matter but least want to have 1 tank minimum and 1/2 healers. The rest can be whatever so long as the boss and event are successful.
 
In a raid this is usually planned ahead and can change from fight to fight.
 
Are there other unspoken rules that other players need to know about?
 
Stay out the red	
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			I think the etiquitte is basically don't be hard headed and be prepared to adapt and play both the roles your class can play	
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the one thing that wildstar teaches people first and foremost is you need to adapt to the current situation above all else.....
 
you have multiple stalkers in your dungeon group guess what.... your bringing 3 IA stun.
Your healer is slightly undergeared... your stacking more mitigation through amps/abilities then........
if your dps pull aggro to often... take your taunts off your bar until they *cupcake*ing behave themselves.
If there is more than 2 tanks on a fight that doesnt require such then you need to communicate openly and loudly with your fellow tanks....... if your in a PUG and the other tanks are tools then just dont say anything, dont hit your taunt and receive credit for the WB event, who knows if the healers are any good and you could save some gold on a repairbill.~
 
Wildstar believe it or not is not an '"I/ME" game it is a "WE/US" game if you never get to that conclusion or are to self-centered to realise it people will not want to play with you in this game EVER. Example ./cough Tahlie ./cough
 
Hopefully by saying that name Im not summoning him.
			
				
	Edited March 16, 2015 by BusterCasey	
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			LOL, I enjoy the degree to which you mis-represented my comments.	
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Hang about...you're the one who refused to change from tank? There's your problem  :lol:
 
You can play two different roles.  For World bosses you can't have two tanks, it's completely pointless and one of those people may as well go DPS in support gear rather than fight for threat with the other.
 
It's pretty simple really.  Don't have the attitude of "I AM TANK"...you are actually a class, be it Warrior/Stalker/Engi you can do both roles, Tank and DPS.  You will see a lot of people with good gear and if they are DPSing and your gear isn't great then you wont be able to hold the threat level high enough.  Going into a random pick up group to kill World bosses isn't where you get experience, being in a guild is.
 
Unless you specifically setup the group and get people in and inform them you are tanking then what gives you more right to tank than someone else?
 
There are no unwritten rules, just a bit of common sense should prevail.  Simply ask the Raid Leader if he would mind you tanking and then they will tell you yes or no, done!	
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Just because a class has two roles doesn't mean we have to know how/want to play both roles.  We actually have no options for a straight up, one role class in this game.
 
As for etiquette in this kind of thing, if it was a group being run by a specific guild/circle/gaggle of people and the raid leader specifically appointed a tank, then you should bow out of tanking, and try not to steal aggro.  If there's not one specifically appointed, then the tanks try to work out who does what, but try not to be jackwagons about it.  If you can't get your way, again just bow out of tanking and just try not to steal aggro.  	
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			For world bosses, I went through them on a tank class, with tank gear.  If there was already a tank there, I just flipped off my tanking innate and got it done.  If anybody complained about my DPS, that's their problem.  Boss died, who cares.	
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I'm not going to point fingers at anyone and say that they're doing it wrong, because I believe that people should play the role that they enjoy, but I wanted to offer some input as a primary engineer tank.  I am also not going to address the question of "etiquette", because at the end of the day that's subjective and anything said in text in game can (and usually does) get interpreted the wrong way when emotions are involved on either side.
 
Unlike other games where the tank's job consists mainly of holding the encounter in place and soaking damage and not worrying about what everyone else is doing, Wildstar is a game where it is critical to be able to anticipate the movements and actions of everyone in your group or raid.  Wildstar is very much a game about player skill and reaction time, and it doesn't matter how solid your gear or rotation is, if you don't intrinsically understand how the fights flow and how your class interfaces with others in a group, you will struggle.
 
You won't get the experience you need to do that by only playing a single role.
 
As one of the primary tanks for the Daggers, I have made it a point to go into things sometimes *as* DPS.  Not only does this give other folks some much-needed practice at tanking, but it allows me to learn to be a better tank as well, by experiencing firsthand just what the DPS have to do when I'm tanking.  It's resulted in me changing up abilities on my tank LAS to better support my group and increase their effectiveness, and it's also resulted in changes to how I position in certain fights so that it's easier for the DPS (and healer) to do their job.  It's made me a better player, and that way when I do go in as a tank, it allows the group to succeed more often.
 
So to Midpa and anyone else, as a recommendation from a fellow tank, you should definitely take some time out to work up a DPS spec and some gear.  Even if you tank 90% of the time, the experience you gain from seeing things from a different perspective during that other 10% will only make you a stronger tank in the long run.  When it comes to the top-end content, that can mean the difference between getting invited to tank for a raid team, or being shut out and sitting on the DPS bench with anyone else.	
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For world content of doesn't matter too much. Sometimes I switched specs on say Scorching. Other times I didn't. I think there was only once there was any aggravation over it. And it can be kind of fun to have threat wars on stuff that doesn't matter. 
 
However, I take a dim view of the "I can only play the role I like best" mentality. You are certainly welcome to have a preference, but to shut out one side of your capabilities would be considered a liability in a raid setting. 
 
We carry one tank of each type in out raid, and since there are fights that take varying numbers and styles of tanks, we switch to DPS. I usually go DPS for X89, tank for Kuralak, tank Phage Maw, DPS for Prototypes, tank on Convergence, tank on Ohmna. Minibosses are frequently catch as catch can, whomever is already tank spec or whatever. 
 
Basically my suggestion is to just cowboy up and develop both specs and gear. Everyone will understand if your tank gear is better than your DPS great if you main a tank spec. It's less understanding to demand tank because that is your only role you are willing to play.	
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For world content of doesn't matter too much. Sometimes I switched specs on say Scorching. Other times I didn't. I think there was only once there was any aggravation over it. And it can be kind of fun to have threat wars on stuff that doesn't matter.
 
However, I take a dim view of the "I can only play the role I like best" mentality. You are certainly welcome to have a preference, but to shut out one side of your capabilities would be considered a liability in a raid setting.
 
We carry one tank of each type in out raid, and since there are fights that take varying numbers and styles of tanks, we switch to DPS. I usually go DPS for X89, tank for Kuralak, tank Phage Maw, DPS for Prototypes, tank on Convergence, tank on Ohmna. Minibosses are frequently catch as catch can, whomever is already tank spec or whatever.
 
Basically my suggestion is to just cowboy up and develop both specs and gear. Everyone will understand if your tank gear is better than your DPS great if you main a tank spec. It's less understanding to demand tank because that is your only role you are willing to play.
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Why should a person feel forced to gear up and play a role they don't like and/or aren't good at?  I'd think forcing a sub-par player is more detrimental to a raid than a person that doesn't dual-spec.
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Your not being made to be feel your forced to play a role you dont want to.
Instead your limiting your value to any group content, everyone has been in that scorchwing raid 0 healers or 0 tanks because no one had a support role. Also being able to queue in the group finder as support and dps severely diminishes your wait time in the queue.
Your limiting your knowledge and the first had experience that comes with playing the other roles. And if you stubbornly have never tried the support role of your class how do you know you dont enjoy it? for the majority of my MMO life,16 years, I stubbornly refused to play a healer role, it always seemed to just be a whack-a-mole type thing. Recently i tried out healing in GW2 on an elementalist. and i kinda enjoy it. ( Dont let wildstar know im cheating on it with all my fanciful costumes and awesome pvp in GW2)
 
beattlebilly your raid team is going to know what your gear/skil situation is of your other role. Trust me if your gear is that bad they probably wont need you to switch but if all you need is alittle experience then they should make you do it.... who knows when the raid team with have a roster boss and you save the day because you changed roles.
 
In the end wildstar gives you alot of tools to conquer the content, why not use all of them?
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I personally think people are too uptight for a game. There's no such thing as a ettiquette in a MMO, at the end of the day you either gonna have a nice dude or a prick on the other end. No matter what you do the guys either gonna be nice, or be an *cupcake*. The universal rule, usually even in a pug if a tank is tanking let him need on tanking gear, and ask if you need it. I had multiple runs were the dps would need on a tanking gear get it, and leave shortly after.
 
At the end of the day you pay 15 bucks a month to play a game, you play it how you want to. If you want to be a dickwad, then do it but also expect consequences from the community. If you want to be nice, then go and help other players out. My answer to your series of questions; play how you want to enjoy it. Don't worry about these ettiquettes, at the end of the day you're always gonna run into an *cupcake* playing an MMO that ignores all set rules.
 
As for world bosses I don't even know why the other tanks are making a big deal. I have been in world boss groups with 3 tanks, 6 dps, and one dps. I guess you must of run into a group of butthole, who care too much about the little details. Then again this is coming from a more casual perspective.	
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your loss ./shrug. Unless you actually tried the support role of your class recently. Then you just dont like the IDEA of the tanking or healing because you dont have the actual experience of trying them out to know if you like them on your character.
 
This part right here,"I don't need to tank to know how to not take aggro.  I don't need to heal to know how to keep tabs on my healer." Made me laugh because you proved my point. There are so many other intricacies you learn that are beneficial to you in your DPS role. Here is an example, if im SUPER high on threat I go stand in the general vicinity of an engi tank to receive the glory that is code red so i can continue my ridiculous warrior dps/aggro. There are tons of other examples like the one above that by understanding them improve your gameplay immensely. the best way to understand is first hand experience.	
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Hang about...you're the one who refused to change from tank? There's your problem 
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Yeah, no. No one is obligated to play a role they don't enjoy.
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			As a DPS player that knows how hard it is to play a healer or a tank, I will let the tank or healer get their way in most things. I will follow the path they choose etc. I'm not flexible myself and I will never heal...even though i teoretically can do it..as a spellslinger. 	
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your loss ./shrug. Unless you actually tried the support role of your class recently. Then you just dont like the IDEA of the tanking or healing because you dont have the actual experience of trying them out to know if you like them on your character.
 
This part right here,"I don't need to tank to know how to not take aggro.  I don't need to heal to know how to keep tabs on my healer." Made me laugh because you proved my point. There are so many other intricacies you learn that are beneficial to you in your DPS role. Here is an example, if im SUPER high on threat I go stand in the general vicinity of an engi tank to receive the glory that is code red so i can continue my ridiculous warrior dps/aggro. There are tons of other examples like the one above that by understanding them improve your gameplay immensely. the best way to understand is first hand experience.
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I don't get it...if you want to play the game the way you want to then find a way to.  Don't go being an asshat and telling people you want to tank and are unwilling to do anything else.  You're all as bad as one another if you're going round doing that.
 
There's two specs, if you don't want to use the other one don't but don't moan either if someone the same as you turns up and you are both gonna be complete plumbs about it and argue over who's gonna fight for that single role in the encounter....don't come on the forum complaining about someone doing exactly what you did to them, you wont get and don't deserve any sympathy because you're both being pathetic.
 
If someone else formed a group and nominated a MT and you join and that person wont change role then just leave the group, don't bother wasting your breath!	
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Why should a person feel forced to gear up and play a role they don't like and/or aren't good at?  I'd think forcing a sub-par player is more detrimental to a raid than a person that doesn't dual-spec.
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Yeah, no. No one is obligated to play a role they don't enjoy.
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If someone has no fun at playing DPS and refuses to develop that spec, then they really won't mind sitting out if the tank role is taken -- except this thread was created.
 
Tanking (and to a lesser degree healing) is a support role and support roles are kind of weird in fight encounters.  Unless there's a specific reason for it, there's no reason for more than one tank.  While it's true that no one should feel forced to play a role they don't enjoy, there's no especial reason to accomodate that player if the role is taken.  Sure if whatever "first-come first-serve" tank that was in the raid for Scorchwing (as an example) doesn't mind switching, that's fine.  I don't think there should be a particular etiquette or general expectation that anyone who decides "I'm only ever going to be a tank -- ever" wants the job you wanted gets to have that job.
 
I don't know that I've ever heard about "oh god we've got too many healers" so that side is a bit moot.
 
And like I said, if you want to double tank Scorchwing, be my guest, catch up to my threat if you want to try.  But there's no reason a one-dimensional player should be especially babied about this.
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eh feel like discussion is in circles at this point, but also feel I need to clarify a bit more. As I said I only play with support roles(sadly there isn't a class in Wildstar that does healing and tanking)
 
In the end it comes down simply to communication and how you personally adapt to the group. You don't necessarily need to go DPS if someone else wants to tank nor does someone else need to if you wish to tank. People sometimes forget about off/emergency-tanks and or hybrids being a thing. 
 
The one thing I will say pisses me off though if you choose to remain as a tank in tank stance and I'm tanking as well with others in open world is if you're pulling threat and  your standing in a position that can get healers and damage dealers killed. So if there is any etiquette to be had in open world raids it would be to stand in the right place(usually on top/next to the other tank(s) )
 
I learned how to tank lightspire and R-12 bosses for example by pretty much being an offtank and standing next to the tanks and paying attention to what they do. I also use threat meter addon so I can monitor and manage my threat efficiently so I'm not a burden to the main tank.
 
That's really all the advice I can think of if you wish to remain a pure tank.
			
				
	Edited March 17, 2015 by Typrop	
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It's a bit of a difficult discussion to be honest....
 
If the group is one you formed yourself, then your rules apply. People can join or leave based on whether they agree with your rules.
When joining a group,you should always inquire with the party leader what he needs/wants, since it's his group.
If you're going to argue about a role to play, then ask yourselves the following question:
 
Is it worth playing a role I'm not good at for 5 minutes and get my objective, or stay in my preferred role, but miss an opportunity.
 
The discussion changes when talking about raids though. There you have first of all the raid leader and guild organising it and people should be flexible enough to ensure the group succeeds, not an individual in the group.
The benefit of a guild group, is that as guild leader or raid leader you can enforce certain things.
Then again, if I was forming a group, and I was looking for something specific, then I would remove the people not being flexible about it and take someone who is. Saves me a lot of trouble.	
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The OP is making the other guy out to be the jerk, he acts like only he had the right to be tank because that is the role he chooses to play and the one he enjoys. Well, the other tanks probably enjoy tanking too and want to play that role but the OPs inflexibility and unwillingness to compromise means the other tanks were obligated to play a different role.
 
you can't or rather shouldn't expect others in the group to compromise and be flexible in the roles they play to meet your wants and needs when you are being so rigid and uncompromising yourself.
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Not really my loss, can't lose something you didn't have or didn't want.  /shrug  I've already explained why I don't like tanking/healing, I don't need to experience them to reinforce that IDEA.
 
Your example falls under "I don't need to tank to know how to not take aggro."  And I can benefit from others' first hand experiences.  I can talk to healers, tanks and other DPS.  I can look up guides.  Hell, I can even go in and get my "first hand experience" by actually doing my role.  My gameplay experience isn't enriched for me personally if I'm playing my character the way I don't want to play it.  And there's no reason others should be made to feel they have to do roles they don't like or aren't good at in a game meant for entertaining them and they work for/pay to play.
 
 
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That's....a very bad analogy...
 
Why wouldn't you just return the apple, give it to someone else, or toss it out and...get another good apple?	
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SCENARIO!
If you have an apple in your left hand and an apple in your right hand, You DEVOUR the nourishing apple in your left hand, but for some reason the apple in your right hand offended/disappointed you so badly that you refuse to eat it no matter the circumstances, so you shove it in your back pocket
and refuse to acknowledge its even in your back pocket and continue on with life.
 
A month or so down the road you take a trip to some far off place on the other side of the globe, but on your way there your plane crash lands on an island with no food, and the fire from the plane destroys whatever food and water was on the plane. You've been on the island for a couple days and the lack of food is taking its toll. You only need to survive 1 more day until help arrives and your saved from this deserted island, but because of how you stubbornly feel about that magically super preserved apple you refuse to eat it and die before help arrives instead of giving the apple another chance and providing your raid team, group, dungeon.. a possible alternative to the evil rosterboss.
 
Im sorry about the super long analogy usually they are short.
 
it sounds like your overly defensive about this due to an experience you have had dealing with this issue? Do you wanna talk about it?
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your right i should have used limbs of your body and some kind of team sports competition. That might have worked better. But for now were just gonna say
 
The apple is soulbound and bugged to the point of not being able to be destroyed!
 
My point is ... you have the tools required to overcome/adapt to certain circumstances that could detrimentally affect you and your friends...... why not use them?
 
I admit that i am a bit over defensive about it. back in the day, all Techr's friends only played dps roles. Techr being responsible and using a bit of forward thinking knew that his group would definitely need a tank if they were to progress. So he went tank, but then Techr began to miss DPSing. He asked his group of friends if someone else could offspec tank so occasionally Techr could DPS. He received a few halfhearted agreements to do so but was never carried out. So Techr said screw you guys Im going to find new friends.
 
All those friends eventually quit wildstar and went back to subpar games. I like to think its because they lacked/ignored the ability to adapt and change to overcome the myriad of situations that wildstar presents that require you to do so to progress.	
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your right i should have used limbs of your body and some kind of team sports competition. That might have worked better. But for now were just gonna say
 
The apple is soulbound and bugged to the point of not being able to be destroyed!
 
My point is ... you have the tools required to overcome/adapt to certain circumstances that could detrimentally affect you and your friends...... why not use them?
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Since your a PvPer the choice to offfspec does not affect you quite as much as it does a primary PvEr.
 
If you played PVE you would definitely understand the reasoning quite a bit more. If you cant beat the roster boss  your raid team doesn't get to raid. Which means that until your able to defeat the rosterboss your raid team is not progressing (receiving any prestige, loot bags, or whatever rewards you recieve from pvping) whatsoever. 
 
Also i just like debating points like this because sometimes they provide different perspectives/information through the different responses that had not been considered.	
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If you played PVE you would definitely understand the reasoning quite a bit more. If you cant beat the roster boss  your raid team doesn't get to raid. Which means that until your able to defeat the rosterboss your raid team is not progressing (receiving any prestige, loot bags, or whatever rewards you recieve from pvping) whatsoever. 
 
Also i just like debating points like this because sometimes they provide different perspectives/information through the different responses that had not been considered.
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