Report 1145

Report #1145
Skillset: Kata Skill: Tattoos
 Org: Tahtetso Status: Rejected Apr 2013
Furies' Decision:
Rejected. We do not like the idea of adding weather protection to tattoos and
would suggest wrapping up appropriately for extreme weather.
Problem: Due to RP reasons and tattoo armour restricting clothing, monks would
like to gain some weather protection from their tattoos.
Solution #1: Allow tattoo armor to provide weather protection. This would be a
 function of tattoo armor and should not be in effect when tattoo
 armor is not in effect (e.g. wearing armour).
Player Comments:
---[Celina on 4/12 @ 23:39 writes]:
Sure. Weather is dumb.
---[Shuyin on 4/13 @ 20:15 writes]:
Hm, I actually thought this was already the case. Or were there weather tattoos
instead?
---[Vivet on 4/14 @ 21:23 writes]:
There are no weather tattoos. If this is implemented, it might be nice if it
scaled up depending on how much of the monk's body is covered, like armour does
at present.
---[Eventru on 4/14 @ 23:11 writes]:
A) 3 new tattoos, geared towards heat, wind, and cold.
---[Eventru on 4/14 @ 23:12 writes]:
B) Cold/fire DMP tattoos adding weather resistance
---[Eventru on 4/14 @ 23:13 writes]:
C) Rejecting this; they can wear clothes in cold weather. Tattoo armour
shouldn't protect against cold, heat, nor winds - they just protect against
cutting/blunt damage, not fire/cold, on their own.
---[Eventru on 4/14 @ 23:14 writes]:
D) Adding some of this functionality into the existing elemental tattoos - water
gains cold resist, air gains wind resist, fire gains heat resist, earth gains
??? (slows hunger gains??? Seems weak. (very) Slight chance to resist a poison?)
---[Eventru on 4/15 @ 03:57 writes]:
Oh hell, why did it separate it out like that and put it on comments? How weird.
IOSAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---[Eventru on 4/15 @ 03:59 writes]:
B) Cold/fire DMP tattoos adding weather resistance
---[Eventru on 4/15 @ 04:01 writes]:
WELL. In case it wasn't obvious, I didn't mean to publicly comment those -
though I said them on envoys prior, so I have no shame! Hoooo!
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
Clarification. This is a requested change to kata and not to the tattoos
tradeskill or tattoos themselves. Kata already alters tattoos in the following
ways, ab kata tattoos (grants armour from and doubles damage absorption power of
tattoos).
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
Clarification. Please note the RP reasons. Monks -can- wear non-armour clothing,
they choose not to or would like to have available not wearing clothes as a
choice.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
Clarification. Monks could just be given weathering by that or some other name.
Just thought it would be nicer to expand the existing skill.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Eventru re: New tattoos specifically for weather. Coding in new tattoos for
weather does not address this issue for monks. Please keep in mind this is not a
character vs weather, but a monk vs weather. Adding in protection for everyone
just moves the goalpost while still leaving naked monks at the bottom of the
heap. In addition, given the number of tattoo locations, weight of tattoos, and
value to the character, I cannot imagine that some minor effect such as weather
protection (more specifically three individual tattoos) provides enough benefit
to be selected over tattoos which provide greater effects.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Vivet Being a minor effect, it could scale or not. From the monks I have spoken
to, they do not seem to care. Scaling via clothing might be a bit tricky and
create non-obvious situations where the adding a piece of clothing might lower
protection. So if done, hopefully that can be guarded against in code.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Eventru RE: B) Cold/fire DMP tattoos adding weather resistance. Could be done
this way, if you meant provide this benefit to everyone with the tattoo(s) then
we would still need kata tattoos to boosts the protection to make up for the
lack of monk clothes.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Eventru RE: C) (roughly what tattoos do/should protect against). Seems a
tautological if you mean they do not have it so should not have it. If on the
other hand, you meant outside the theme of tattoos and armour tattoos, I would
offer that the majority of the tattoos are protective, that they protect from
fire and cold attacks (and even air if one considers asphyxiation such), as well
as physical ones. If you mean that there is something unique to tattoos with to
respect to amour bonus, then I would ask for an explanation. I see nothing
inherent about a charity tattoo or a tattoo to increase essence offering armour
protection. The link between individual tattoo -types- and tattoo armour does
not appear to exist. The monk appears to simply be tapping into the weight of
all tattoos, no matter the type and deriving benefit from doing so. It is not
the type of tattoo that seems to provide the monk with protection, instead it is
the KA the monk invests into the tattoos and then later their special relation
with that ka energy.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Eventru RE: D) (adding the functionality to the elemental tattoos). The result
of this would IMO not significantly increase the adoption of elemental tattoos.
Tattoos are not a get them all, but a pick and choose. Characters in general are
not interested in the elemental tattoos and monks (who are encouraged to focus
more on damage absorption for the additional monk bonuses) are even less (if
that is even possible) interested in elemental tattoos. [Note] Should the
protection be added to elemental tattoos, might I suggest that instead of
thinking of it as water equals cold, etc., that it be thought of as elemental
vs. natural and any elemental tattoo offer resistance to all natural weather (or
failing that, offers resistance to all other weather (Earth plane being
resistant to water, air, fire). If elemental tattoos all granted some weather
protection (to everyone and perhaps double for monks) and the total could be
capped, then coupled with the resistance to being moved by the environment and
perhaps adding a few minor additional effects, together might grant elemental
tattoos enough general purpose to make them worthwhile use. Some quick ideas: 1)
What if elemental tattoos granted the equivalent to attune while on that
elemental plane? 2) Offer more health/mana/ego or additional regen (or some
other protection while on that plane). 3) x percent more damage of that type
while on that plane.
---[Steingrim on 4/16 @ 02:47 writes]:
@Eventru RE: D) re the what about poison? comment. Please no. Poison is always
going to be a shell game. If it is added in one place it is simply going to be
subtracted from another until it is balanced. If there is room for additional
poison resistance, it probably should be returned into the poison tradeskill or
resilience.
---[Eventru on 4/17 @ 20:01 writes]:
Heh. Like I said, I didn't really mean to publicly comment those, and your
comments just seem to be a rehash of the conversation we had on envoys. Doesn't
really change my opinion nor my comments/concerns, which we talked about there.
Re C), the Kata TattooArmour ability protects against physical damage, not heat,
cold nor wind. Your argument is that it's protective in nature, therefore it
should. This argument is easily expanded that tattoo armour should innately
defend against all forms of damage, esp. fire/cold. As I said, I don't
inherently mind the notion, however the argument is disconnected to me in the
manner presented (Tattoos are protective so they should protect against the
elements). B) (and my personal preference) referred to making Tattoo in Kata
also relate the DMP gained from fire/cold tattoos to hot/cold weather resistance
- this is how we handle it with races, iirc. Your argument regarding the link
between 'types' and 'armour' is flawed - armour boosts the benefit of the DMP
gained from DMP tattoos, for example (due to the flow of ka energy). There is
inter-connectivity, thematically - mechanically, there is no argument whatsoever
for physical protection from tattoos to extend to elemental forces (hot, cold
temperature, winds). Quite frankly, I don't take 'naked monks' to mean 'stark
naked', I take it to mean 'unarmoured'. If it's cold, wear layers of clothes. If
it's hot, wear light clothes. If it's windy, protect yourself from it. I note
the Tosha Monks wear clothes, despite being 'naked monks'. I also note the
La'Saet monks, who also rely on tattoo armour, are also clothed. I think taking
'naked' to mean 'nudist' is a misnomer on the part of the individual.
---[Janalon on 4/30 @ 04:20 writes]:
"ElementalTattoos" have such a narrow window of applicability (i.e. brief
encounters of raiding / hunting) to be worth the long term investment of
tattooing time and tattoo weight. I'd rather see this particular "skill" updated
into "EnvironmentalTattoos". Keep in mind tats were intro'ed prior to the big
weather revision. Weather impacts a larger percent of the player base for a
larger percentage of playing time. Fire easier to walk in sweltering heat. Cold
in freezing conditions. Wind would protect talk/flying. Water would help resist
ocean currents. Earth could give a celerity like effect.Yes, monks want nudie
RP, but this seems like a weak "monk only" argument. I'd much rather see tat
skills everyone could use.