119371-the-thing-is

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The problem with WildStar isn’t its difficulty or for that matter its INCREDIBLY insane end game grind. In fact if anything the games core mechanics and controls make up by truckloads for any stress and dissatisfaction one might have with the games time requirements. I myself have spent a comparable amount of hours undertaking such inane tasks as filling out my Pokedex. However, in that statement lies the truth of what has been plaguing WildStar since its genesis. The kind of people that are willing to spend the time to actually succeed at such task are either, A: like myself nearly catatonic with introversion, or B: Unbearable type A personalities which make communities uninviting and contentious, on the level of a “pissing contest.” ß Diablo 3’s community suffered this BIG time. On the other hand, those introverts who enjoy escaping into fantasy realms can just as easily pick of Dragon Age or Skyrim, feel much more important have success and collect ‘phat l00tz.’ Less money, less time, and twice the achievement.
 
That being said, I reiterate, it’s not the games model that is failing, it’s that the model is being applied to THIS GAME, an MMO. In the days of Everquest, when we had the comfort of stability and an economy capable of maintain extend bouts of highly caffeinated gaming without worry, of course this model worked! However, there is a very good reason that WoW abandoned this very same methodology right after Vanilla. It’s not sustainable. To drive the stake in further, Carbines best idea backfired on them when the introduced C.R.E.D.D. They’ve driven away their base line players, the ones that would actually spend money to play the game monthly if they felt it was worth the effort and they’ve handed the game to the A types who, will never have to pay for the game again. And the introverts left because they didn’t feel welcome.
 
In the end, this games failure isn’t the players fault. We’re the consumer: give us what we want or we won’t buy it. It’s not the A types fault either, they’ve found a game their good at and don’t have to pay for. I say bravo to them. In fact, I actually believe that this is an amazingly fun game and if I had the time I might even give a crack at the end game. I believe in this games potential; however, I don’t believe in its developers. Carbines business paradigm is the reason this game will sink or swim. It’s also the reason it’s continued to fail. In reality, if Carbine wishes to actually get itself into my Motif folder and make WildStar a success, it needs to reevaluate what’s important to the game and the company and they need to do it quickly, for my sake, I love this game. 	
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			Glad you made this unique post bravo. At this point I think people log on to the general just to troll wildstar as it was the antichrist of the MMO man I sure miss the days of people bashing EA ahh the memories.	
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			"ß Diablo 3"? SS? I'm guessing you mean pre-expansion. I never paid much attention to the community in-game because it put you in one of several random General Chat subchannels, so at no point were you ever able to interact with everyone else online at the time.	
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Sadachbia, 
 
Yes, pre-xpac D3. Again though, this shows that a change of direction, as far as business models are concerned, can bolster and even save the state of an otherwise failed game. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment :D 
 
Phat_Albert, 
 
I sometimes feel the same :) thanks for the comment. 	
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1. The game isn't even 6 months old yet.
 
2. This exact issue you bring up has been addressed by many devs, to include Donatelli. 
 
3. Dead horse is dead.	
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Psyknis, 
 
I'm not suggesting they didn't address it, I'm suggesting that addressed or not, their solutions have failed. Yes the game is only 6 months old and everything the company has done to protect the hardcore mentality has failed to protect the state of the game. In 6 months they've managed to bankrupt their community. They made huge promises which they've failed to live up to, and we all knew they would. I mean their content schedule alone was absurd.
 
What I actually offered here was a sound criticism of Carbines business paradigm. If I were beating a dead horse this would be a rage quit post ;) 
 
Thanks for the comment Psyknis. 	
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The problem with WildStar isn’t its difficulty or for that matter its INCREDIBLY insane end game grind. In fact if anything the games core mechanics and controls make up by truckloads for any stress and dissatisfaction one might have with the games time requirements. I myself have spent a comparable amount of hours undertaking such inane tasks as filling out my Pokedex. However, in that statement lies the truth of what has been plaguing WildStar since its genesis. The kind of people that are willing to spend the time to actually succeed at such task are either, A: like myself nearly catatonic with introversion, or B: Unbearable type A personalities which make communities uninviting and contentious, on the level of a “pissing contest.” ß Diablo 3’s community suffered this BIG time. On the other hand, those introverts who enjoy escaping into fantasy realms can just as easily pick of Dragon Age or Skyrim, feel much more important have success and collect ‘phat l00tz.’ Less money, less time, and twice the achievement.
 
That being said, I reiterate, it’s not the games model that is failing, it’s that the model is being applied to THIS GAME, an MMO. In the days of Everquest, when we had the comfort of stability and an economy capable of maintain extend bouts of highly caffeinated gaming without worry, of course this model worked! However, there is a very good reason that WoW abandoned this very same methodology right after Vanilla. It’s not sustainable. To drive the stake in further, Carbines best idea backfired on them when the introduced C.R.E.D.D. They’ve driven away their base line players, the ones that would actually spend money to play the game monthly if they felt it was worth the effort and they’ve handed the game to the A types who, will never have to pay for the game again. And the introverts left because they didn’t feel welcome.
 
In the end, this games failure isn’t the players fault. We’re the consumer: give us what we want or we won’t buy it. It’s not the A types fault either, they’ve found a game their good at and don’t have to pay for. I say bravo to them. In fact, I actually believe that this is an amazingly fun game and if I had the time I might even give a crack at the end game. I believe in this games potential; however, I don’t believe in its developers. Carbines business paradigm is the reason this game will sink or swim. It’s also the reason it’s continued to fail. In reality, if Carbine wishes to actually get itself into my Motif folder and make WildStar a success, it needs to reevaluate what’s important to the game and the company and they need to do it quickly, for my sake, I love this game. 
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Psyknis, 
 
I'm not suggesting they didn't address it, I'm suggesting that addressed or not, their solutions have failed. Yes the game is only 6 months old and everything the company has done to protect the hardcore mentality has failed to protect the state of the game. In 6 months they've managed to bankrupt their community. They made huge promises which they've failed to live up to, and we all knew they would. I mean their content schedule alone was absurd.
 
What I actually offered here was a sound criticism of Carbines business paradigm. If I were beating a dead horse this would be a rage quit post ;)
 
Thanks for the comment Psyknis. 
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WrathMagik,
 
You've obviously had a great experience with this game and I wouldn't deny that. When I first started playing the game I had a similar experience. And, of course I don't want to be an absolutist about any of this, I am sure that there are plenty of people playing this game that are not the extremists I was talking about. Besides, even the introvert and the A type can, and are, great friends. That being said, the sole worry here isn't simply that the community is some combination of the two, but that those left in the game (kind of like Eve's community), are people who will likely not have to pay for game time ever again. While Carbine could make up for this with even more micro-transactions I'd personally rather see the community grow. In my opinion a game with this kind of scope and scale should not be able to contain its populace on a couple of 'megaservers.' I want to see a horde or little nooblets out there hacking away at the "grind."
 
Thanks for the Reply! :)
 
Psyknis,
 
Word. And I get where you're coming from on this too. I almost didn't want to create a post at all, because in some sense this is old news. However, I still come on here and see people offering very little real discussion about these topics and instead trolling any and everyone that will feed them. Like I said, I LOVE THIS GAME. Lore rich, content original and a massively fun gameplay system. Also, I don't think that they should remove, in totality, the 'hardcore' aspect. I think it should just be less of a vertical wall you have to climb at 50 and instead should be spread out a little; in such a way that 'softcores' and 'hardcores' have lots of ways to enjoy the game and the 'hardcores' can still feel good about getting together with 40 friends and roflstomping a raid into the ground. In some ways, for the hardcore players I'd even like to see more challenge. I mean lets see what the true limit of our capacity to work together, that'd be cool. Any fantasy realm would have it's 'big damn heroes' and it's 'purple bellies.' That being said, I'm clearly a 'purple belly.'
 
Thanks for the comment :D	
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everything the company has done to protect the hardcore mentality
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SlyJeff, 
 
By 'hardcore' I am referring to the excessive time expenditure required by endgame. Again, this 'excess' is not necessarily a bad thing. However, it may be the reason that WildStar won't get the million plus subs that it honestly deserves. Right now, at best, we sit around 200k or so. While it may be the case that a good portion of the player base is okay with these numbers. It's not good for the company, especially for one which is profit driven. The more subs the company can get the healthier the over-all game will be. Moar money to fix our problems! <- yes I know that statements got all kinds of problems. 
 
Thanks for the comment  :lol:  	
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WoW actually doubled down on that model in TBC, and it soared to 12 million subscribers.  It then dropped it for WotLK, and has been bleeding subs for the last 6 (7?) years.
 
Also, the economy has mostly recovered now.  US dollar is pretty much back where it was before 9/11.
 
If you love the game, play it.  Your back seat market analysis isn't very useful.  I enjoy having to put in actual tangible effort to accomplish something because 95% of games these days are missing that feature.  More subscribers would be great, but not at the expense of catering to the lowest common denominator.
 
What the hell is a Motif folder?	
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Google Image search for motif folder
 
 :lol:	
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Only a Gungan would think that TBC was a double down on vanilla mechanics  :lol:
 
https://www.motifinvesting.com/b?utm_expid=46965885-22.V-OPtNrwS7OHkdvahXManQ.1
 
That's a where a 'motif' folder comes from. 
 
Thanks for the comment!	
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			TBC had the most hardcore raid progression content WoW ever had to this day. Serpentshrine Cavern to Tempest Keep to Black Temple to Sunwell are yet to be surpassed.	
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TBC had the most hardcore raid progression content WoW ever had to this day. Serpentshrine Cavern to Tempest Keep to Black Temple to Sunwell are yet to be surpassed.
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You left out mount hyjal!
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I'm not sure I understand the logic behind the "people who buy credd will never pay for the game again". Every single CREDD has been bought by a player. These players agree to trade it for a given amount of an in-game currency. I don't see how people using CREDD don't contribute to the game's health. They're actually paying more than the stabdard subscriber since CREDD is a lot more expensive.
 
The game isn't hard but I agree that controls are terrible. I've made my own thread about it a few hours ago and I got quite a lot of backfire but anyway. No the game isn't hard. It's challenging and that's pretty much the only thing keeping most of us around. It's just not communicating game mechanics well enough.
 
Also Eve online is a great game, I'm not sure why we've had a random eve hate sentence here but whatever.	
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Just because you don't like the controls as they are, doesn't make them broken, phmb.  You shouldn't be using the numpad anyways.
 
Also, the OP said, and I quote, "the games core mechanics and controls make up by truckloads for any stress and dissatisfaction one might have with the games time requirements."  Meaning, he actually feels the controls are good enough to make him forget some of the other problems with the game.	
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			The hardcore time requirement myth really need to go shove itself in a hole somewhere, people essentially can get into a raid with decent enough  gear within a week (maybe a little over depending on how casual, casual, is.) of casual play if they have a guild that actually raids/runs dungeons.Meanwhile, after the rather simple attunement process, as an actual raider you only need to spend 2-4 hours 3x a week (typical) to raid. Am I confused somewhere or do extras count as endgame grind?Can you go into further details on where you're using up all the time I'm not at endgame? I only have to spend at most 4 hours a week in game now due to the DS roster boss and how quickly my guild clears GA	
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The hardcore time requirement myth really need to go shove itself in a hole somewhere, people essentially can get into a raid with decent enough  gear within a week and maybe a bit more of casual play if they have a guild that actually raids/runs dungeons.
 
Meanwhile, after the rather simple attunement process, as an actual raider you only need to spend 2-4 hours 3x a week (typical) to raid. Am I confused somewhere or do extras count as endgame grind?
 
Can you go into further details on where you're using up all the time I'm not at endgame? 
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			what worries me is the rep grind part of attunement for all players, but even then, I'm assuming that was at a very casual pace and to spend 20~ days is about accurate enough for the average player currently. Afterwards most of which is spent doing a raid and if you play more than raid times, getting modules for raid gear/purple gear (not hard).	
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what worries me is the rep grind part of attunement for all players, but even then, I'm assuming that was at a very casual pace and to spend 20~ days is about accurate enough for the average player currently. Afterwards most of which is spent doing a raid and if you play more than raid times, getting modules for raid gear/purple gear (not hard).
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Thanks to everyone for their comments! Sorry I've not been able to get back here in a few days, it's the end of the semester and all
 
However, I did want to say that I'm glad to see so many reasonable people willing to engage in this kind of dialogue.
 
Indeed, enough that I must, of course, redact the assertions I've made which imply that the community is devoid of value :)	
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