124054-legendary-quality-items

Page 1, Page 2
== Content ==
			
Dear Carbine, and Wildstar community. 
At first, sorry for bad english.Is there any idea to bring some other ways to gain legendary quality items? I mean, there are a lot of people who just can't raid. Some people just cant do it because of many reasons. Family, work, life. Also not everybody can use TS because of speakers problems or any other devices. Raiding is not able for everybody.Legendary quality items makes this game even more fun, but yea... there's a lot of ppl who just can't have them. I would like to see some way to have GA or DS quality gear without raiding even if that way would be much, much harder and longer. Actually Wildstar imposes player to play in raids, thats why some of those players just going to get bored after gathering superb quality gear (and this is not hard to do).My suggestion is to make some new way to let lonely players gain GA quality items and then to improve them to DS quality items without raiding. But still should be worth less than raids, because of time cost.Whats is your opinion about that?	
----
			
You can get a legendary glove in dungeons as a rare drop from the last boss. Of course, without imbueing the glove in raids, it's pretty worthless.
 
Talking in raid channels is not necessary, listening and understanding is the important part. I used to play with someone who was very self-concious about her speech (I never heard her talk, so no idea why) and she only typed in chat, but was listening on TS. Some guilds are very friendly and welcoming and you can probably find a good home with them.
 
On Entity, there are several PUG raids running every week, where pretty much anyone (right?) who is attuned can get in. If you try this, make sure you at least watch some videos about the boss fights.	
----
			Drop 5 will introduce Contracts (daily reset missions) that have chance for raid quality rewards.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can get a legendary glove in dungeons as a rare drop from the last boss. Of course, without imbueing the glove in raids, it's pretty worthless.
 
Talking in raid channels is not necessary, listening and understanding is the important part. I used to play with someone who was very self-concious about her speech (I never heard her talk, so no idea why) and she only typed in chat, but was listening on TS. Some guilds are very friendly and welcoming and you can probably find a good home with them.
 
On Entity, there are several PUG raids running every week, where pretty much anyone (right?) who is attuned can get in. If you try this, make sure you at least watch some videos about the boss fights.
----
			well if you dont raid you dont need legendary quality items, thats why they are releasing more and more costumes to give a motivation to those players who dont raid, they dont need legendary quality gear for the difficult level of content you are doing. and btw you have a very low chance of getting a legendary piece with the bags that cost 30 primal patterns	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
much, much harder and longer.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
well if you dont raid you dont need legendary quality items, thats why they are releasing more and more costumes to give a motivation to those players who dont raid, they dont need legendary quality gear for the difficult level of content you are doing. and btw you have a very low chance of getting a legendary piece with the bags that cost 30 primal patterns
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes you don't need legendary items IF you are fine with coming last DPS in adventures, dungeons and anything else that ranks you against others with legendary items.........
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But you are clearing the adventures, dungeons and anything else.
Raiders put in more effort then someone who just ran dungeons. Not talking about time commitment here, but raiders did clear the more challenging content of the game, and thus their rewards should be higher.
 
The same applies to PvP.
Everyone can get the blues etc from practise battlegrounds, but if you want the shinies for PvP, you need to invest effort in the ranked battlegrounds.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Agreed. Just pointing out that there is a consequence of not having legendary items.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
True True.
But your primary goal of running content should not be "amagad I R #1 DEEPS".
Your goal should be to see the content, have fun exploring it and enjoy your time online with friends.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No no, real pro's play to be silent hero like Gordan Freeman and raiding doesn't allow this legitimate and best playstyle. Therefore legendaries from adventures plez.
----
			
Ffxiv designed their gearing system for people just like you, Op. You know, 75% of the player base?
 
I agree with you 100%. Raids should get gear faster and have a more exclusive look, but ultimately shouldn't be more powerful than something available to ALL players over time.
 
Except for maybe a weapon or two	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ffxiv designed their gearing system for people just like you, Op. You know, 75% of the player base?
 
I agree with you 100%. Raids should get gear faster and have a more exclusive look, but ultimately shouldn't be more powerful than something available to ALL players over time.
 
Except for maybe a weapon or two
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But you are clearing the adventures, dungeons and anything else.
Raiders put in more effort then someone who just ran dungeons. Not talking about time commitment here, but raiders did clear the more challenging content of the game, and thus their rewards should be higher.
 
The same applies to PvP.
Everyone can get the blues etc from practise battlegrounds, but if you want the shinies for PvP, you need to invest effort in the ranked battlegrounds.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Doesn't have to be there can also be horizontal progression instead of vertical, but that has been discussed already.
In wildstar i do find the gear gap quite large though.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why are weapons the exception? I've always held firm on the stance that raid gear is for raiders... I'm beginning to change my mind, though. I can go out and solo 5 mans and even a few 20s, pull 10+ mobs and be fine, tear through group finder content, and most importantly I can find a group any time I want. The ultimate problem with not giving out stronger gear outside of raids is farming. Raiders make more money because they complete solo content faster. I no longer think that needing raid gear outside of raids is ridiculous, but obtaining said gear should be difficult to the point of ludacrisy. Extremely low chance RNG is pretty much the only way to compare to the months of watching nothing drop as a raider.
----
			
It wasn't too long ago the GA was inaccessible to players who hadn't done a lot of work beforehand. Now there are pathways to get that gear. It will happen for DS eventually. I know you addressed that, but it surprises me that GA isn't "enough" right now. I've been playing this game since launch and am just now 3/6 in GA. It seems to me like there's a lot there, and the only reason people would want to be in DS right now is because they have friends on the bleeding edge of content.
 
If they were to introduce the kind of gear you are talking about, it would trivialize GA and the type of raid I'm in that is enjoying progression through the entry level raid tear. Eventually GA will be trivialized, but it is FAR too soon to do that.
 
For people who don't want to be on a schedule, GA is becoming more and more accessible to PUG style play and using fill ins. GA is a pretty great instance with a lot going on, so I feel like that should satisfy a lot of those who want to raid but can't be on the bleeding edge.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
*words*
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Old Man Tek, I'll try to share my position and perception with you.
 
When I play an MMO, I like the idea of progression. I like the idea of being able to log in, do something enjoyable, and log out with a sense of accomplishment / that I've progressed further / made my character better.
 
In the past I have been the main tank for progression guilds. I have been a guild leader. I have participated in World Firsts, been Rank 1 in PvP Rankings, and I've alternatively played at times where I was ultra-casual. If there is one thing that I've learned, it's that gear is not the reward. Gear is the artificial time gate to experiencing content.
 
World First PvE Progression is most often not achieved by who has the best gear--- it is who is most dedicated. Top ranked PvPers could lose some of their gear handicap and still prevail over people that haven't taken the time to learn how other classes work. Pattern recognition trumps gear in games. Humans are good at pattern recognition.
 
So now that we've understood that gear is the tool, let's put things in what I would consider to be my perspective. I don't want to raid in Wildstar. I want to PvP. Sometimes, however, I want to join my guild / group and be able to help them out in whatever boss they're pulling for the night. Sometimes I like to be able to fill in as a DPS for a pug raid because they're short people. In GA, I can generally jump in with gear that I've achieved outside of the instance (vet SSM / 1800 PvP) and do comparable DPS that doesn't make me a waste of a slot. If my gear sucks, but I can dodge red / press taunt at the right time, I'm a valuable asset.
 
This does not directly translate to Datascape. If I walk in without a decent round of GA epics / set pieces, I'm going to get crushed. I'm not going to do anywhere near the DPS/HPS/TPS or have the mitigation to survive, and that leads us straight to the problem.
 
I've played this game for 9 months, and I'm still no closer to experiencing DS content than I was 9 months ago. There needs to be a way for all people to experience content, eventually. If Wildstar is choosing to have gear gate the content, then so be it. Wildstar will watch their casuals and the people that don't have the time / responsibility to raid 9-12 hours a week after work log off / do something else instead of try to raid. If I've been capping elder gems every week for 9 months, I should have gear that lets me walk into DS and have competitive throughput. I'm not taking world firsts, or trying to beat parses, I'm trying to experience the content. The content is out of reach. I want to beat the game that I've purchased.
 
... and I know what you're thinking, "but Eclips, they'll nerf it in the future when a new raid comes out!" You're right, I'll be able to experience the content then- but I'll have probably already moved on to something else. I'll have filled my time with something else that doesn't bar me from experiencing content. I might not come back, we'll see.
 
///
 
and as another strong argument from my perspective. I like raiding with friends. I like killing bosses etc with people that I know, that I like to joke around with. I like to play with ultra-competitive PvE DPS parses, and I like people to be competent, but most of all I like playing with my friends. I have no problem running a 20 man raid where the same guy is always dead by the end, if we are all still progressing / winning / having a good time.
 
So here's a real world perspective. MY best friend is a police officer who works 4 days on, 4 days off. I guess you can understand why its hard for him to make raid times. Sure, he might be okay in a casual guild that uses DKP, but he's not going to be a reliable main tank. He's not going to be the go-to guy for a raid. Nothing against the guy at all, and he's a solid player when he's online--- but he's not going to have the time to be at every raid and get the gear he needs to reach those throughput values. In a system like Wildstar, Datascape is out of reach. That content is out of reach, for an otherwise competent and paying player. 
 
I enjoy Wildstar, and I like to raid. My little brother plays football. Because I love my brother, I like to go to his football games. Sometimes they're on Friday nights. Sometimes they're on Tuesdays. Sometimes they're out of town. High school football game schedule is not interested in my raiding time. When I choose to go do more important things, I lose out on the opportunity to get gear, aka the tools I need, to experience content.
 
A friend of mine works for the state and has to drive 5+ hours once a week for meetings, and has to stay in hotels. Playing MMOs is something he likes to do, and goes well with his weird hours stuck in a hotel room in a different city. Playing MMOs beats away the loneliness, and also helps him stay in contact with his friends that are out together when he's stuck in a different city. He likes to raid. He's a min/maxer / consumable farmer. Unfortunately, because of his work schedule and travel times, he can't be a consistent scheduled raider. He would be a good addition to a raid, he wouldn't have any problems being in the raid, but if his schedule doesn't work with a raid schedule, then he's unreliable, and thus won't be able to meet the gear requirements etc.
 
I have a friend who is a software engineer. Guy is a phenomenal MMO player, PvEr, PvPr, etc. The guy is brilliant, amazing at his job, etc. Unfortunately, he flies out to Germany once a month, because the company he works for can hire amazing software engineers, but doesn't have the software / multi-talented individuals to explain how the software works in German.
 
////
 
So here's the solution to this. Time-gated gear, on par with the highest level of raid content. I've posted about it before, and FFXIV does a great example of this, but the best way to have "casuals," experience content is to make it accessible. If I've been playing Wildstar for 3-4 months, I should be able to go into DS and pick side-grades / slightly better gear. I should be able to go in and see gloomclaw / avatus. That doesn't mean I'm going to steamroll the bosses, I still have to learn them etc, but I want it to be accessible to me. I want to be able to go after content, have 2 of my main raiders deploy in the military, and be able to replace them with people who have par gear and are ready to learn. I don't want people that are monthsbehind.com.
 
... and if it's not, I'm most likely going to just go play another game, and never dedicate the 12+ hours a week with 19 other people that it takes to get back on track.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So, PvErs came into the PvP forums and said, "I want all the gear so that I can be competitive when I'm not raiding! This content shouldn't be blocked for me because I don't have the gears!
 
Mission accomplished.
 
Now, what, PvPrs are going to come in and want their free gears as well? How long do we get to fight this battle back and forth? If you want to DS raid, well then prioritize your time to get DS attuned and do it. Even major raiding guilds haven't seen the majority of DS fights yet. Why should you get access to it while they're still struggling 3-4 days a week to do it?
----
			
The answer to scheduling issues is *not* to trivialize the great content we already have in GA.
 
DS is a great goal for people to work up to. That's why there's progression in the PvE portion of this game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dear Carbine, and Wildstar community.
 
At first, sorry for bad english.
 
Is there any idea to bring some other ways to gain legendary quality items? 
I mean, there are a lot of people who just can't raid. Some people just cant do it because of many reasons. Family, work, life. Also not everybody can use TS because of speakers problems or any other devices. Raiding is not able for everybody.
 
Legendary quality items makes this game even more fun, but yea... there's a lot of ppl who just can't have them. I would like to see some way to have GA or DS quality gear without raiding even if that way would be much, much harder and longer. 
Actually Wildstar imposes player to play in raids, thats why some of those players just going to get bored after gathering superb quality gear (and this is not hard to do).
 
My suggestion is to make some new way to let lonely players gain GA quality items and then to improve them to DS quality items without raiding. But still should be worth less than raids, because of time cost.
 
Whats is your opinion about that?
----
			
How about a compromise? As Eclips is saying (and I agree with) the issue is about people being able to experience the content. However, I think there should still be a reward for participating in the hardest PvE content in the game. 
 
In GA and DS, there are purple and orange drops. Obviously the oranges are better, but a player can participate (and do well if they know their class) if they are in all purples. So why not allow solo players/pvpers and the like to earn the purple drops using tokens and such? That way, given enough time, they could reach the point where they could participate, and not be a waste of space, in the raids. 
 
However, I think oranges, the legendary drops, should be restricted to boss rewards. They're already rare pieces, and I think its a great way to say "Look, I put in the time, learned this boss, beat it, and got a reward for it."
 
Essentially, get allow anyone with enough time and skill to get to a point where they can participate if they want to, and if they do participate there's the chance that they could get something even better as a reward. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How about a compromise? As Eclips is saying (and I agree with) the issue is about people being able to experience the content. However, I think there should still be a reward for participating in the hardest PvE content in the game. 
 
In GA and DS, there are purple and orange drops. Obviously the oranges are better, but a player can participate (and do well if they know their class) if they are in all purples. So why not allow solo players/pvpers and the like to earn the purple drops using tokens and such? That way, given enough time, they could reach the point where they could participate, and not be a waste of space, in the raids. 
 
However, I think oranges, the legendary drops, should be restricted to boss rewards. They're already rare pieces, and I think its a great way to say "Look, I put in the time, learned this boss, beat it, and got a reward for it."
 
Essentially, get allow anyone with enough time and skill to get to a point where they can participate if they want to, and if they do participate there's the chance that they could get something even better as a reward. 
----
			
It's a sad thing to be said about pve content in an MMO, when the hardest part about it is scheduling yourself and 19 other raid gear ready people just for it to be accessible.
 
Imagine raid content where people got the gear (tools) they needed to complete it by simply spending time in the game.  Then they took those tools, and found boss encounters that required the melee to run out of AoEs, or do reduced damage.
 
Boss encounters that required tanks to move frequently and strategically.  Tanks that protected their teams, instead of just themselves (shield guards, aoe damage reduction zones based on positioning.   Healers that had to monitor debuff stacking and mana consumption. DPS that gained a buff from being in the right position.
 
Gauntlet fights that required people to spec properly and enough people to be AoE to curb the sheer amount of enemies coming at you.
 
Imagine if Espers had overflow psi orbs that actually buffed their teammates damage for a short time, instead of giving them Psi points.  Imagine if stalker critical hits dropped pools of blood on the ground that healed their teammates.  Imagine if main tanking wasn't simply soaking damage with your gear, but running the right course of debuffs / defensives to deal with how the mob was attacking you.
 
Imagine if stalkers could stay in stealth in PvE, causing them to hit harder, but they lost it and went on cooldown if they got hit by boss aoe.  Imagine if spellslingers created an actual void pact with someone else, channeling their spell surge AP/SP increase to whoever was standing in the void zone.
 
Imagine if warriors energy shield could be placed in front of someone, causing them to take reduced damage.
 
Those are things that require strategy for boss fights, not gear.  Gear is just an artificial tool to gate players.  Letting them work for it and get it over time ala elder gems--- that's something that keeps people in-game playing.  Nerfing content / releasing gear 6 months later?  That's something that makes people quit until the content is easier, or just never experience it at all.	
----
			
I don't understand why people are trying to implement the much maligned "Looking for Raid" mechanic of WoW.
 
If you really want to see the content, and that's all you want, well, why not just wait until the next Tier comes, and when you're level 55, you can head on into Datascape and do some raids. What, no rewards that are worthwhile at that level? No problem, it's about content, not gear!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't understand why people are trying to implement the much maligned "Looking for Raid" mechanic of WoW.
 
If you really want to see the content, and that's all you want, well, why not just wait until the next Tier comes, and when you're level 55, you can head on into Datascape and do some raids. What, no rewards that are worthwhile at that level? No problem, it's about content, not gear!
----
			
Eclips, you've almost got it, but not quite.
 
In WS mechanics and excellent play are a huge part of it. More important than in most games. Gear does gate a little bit, but mostly it serves the lower skilled folks by making the fights easier the more gear they get.
 
X-89 was dooable at launch with not-great gear by 16 people. But this was 16 people playing very skillfully. Mechanics was more important than gear. Kuralak didn't take much longer to go down, even pre T8 OV (because people didn't know about that), and Kuralak is regarded by many as one of the hardest bosses in GA. The gear my raid group is using is WAY above what those folks were doing, and we still struggle with Kuralak (certainly not a one shot). But having great gear does make it possible for less dedicated players like us. Some day, gear available through dungeons will allow people to do Kuralak without even getting to 8 eggs, which makes the fight quite easy.
 
Yeah, gear is somewhat of a gate, but more than anything I've found it's getting the mechanics down that's really important and gear just helps a bit. No, you can't just waltz into DS with dungeon gear, but then again, why do you want to when there's a whole raid before it that you'd be skipping?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ah, good argument.  Raid designers make content for only 10% of the population for a year.  Then after a year, the majority of the playerbase can see what everyone said was so great about Datascape!  In the meantime, you guys can go play WoW or LoL or something.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ah, good argument.  Raid designers make content for only 10% of the population for a year.  Then after a year, the majority of the playerbase can see what everyone said was so great about Datascape!  In the meantime, you guys can go play WoW or LoL or something.
----
			
hate to tell you but in every game it is a huge time requirement to clear raid content. Unless ofc you are talking about LFR which is so faceroll and completely pointless that an 8 year can and has successfully done it. 
 
The raids do not need to be nerfed. Legendary gear does not need to be accessible to everyone. If you want the gear invest the time as everyone else has. Raiding is fun. It's challenging. The gear isn't a crutch it's a reward for overcoming it.
 
So you want the story? There's a solo instance called Omnicore. 'But that's not the raid' ... no it's not but I think that story is even better. There really isn't much of any story in the raid at all. So keep saying that it's about the story because anyone who has done LFR in WoW can say that's a lie. That's what the population claimed to get LFR put in and no one even pays attention to it. It's completely about free hand out gear which there has already been too much put into this game.
			
				
	Edited March 26, 2015 by BusterCasey	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Is there any idea to bring some other ways to gain legendary quality items? 
I mean, there are a lot of people who just can't raid. Some people just cant do it because of many reasons. Family, work, life. Also not everybody can use TS because of speakers problems or any other devices. Raiding is not able for everybody.
 
Legendary quality items makes this game even more fun, but yea... there's a lot of ppl who just can't have them. I would like to see some way to have GA or DS quality gear without raiding even if that way would be much, much harder and longer. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Gear does gate a little bit, but mostly it serves the lower skilled folks by making the fights easier the more gear they get.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What are you trying to say here?
 
Let's talk about content that was designed for 100% of the players then. Lightspire event and Defile! You guys out there doing that every day? No, I don't think I've seen a Lightspire group in weeks.
 
How about vet dungeons which I know is upgrades for some of the population, since vet SSM and Protostar spit out ilevel 63 items. Why am I not seeing constant groups for that?
 
No one is happy with the content they're given, apparently.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The average player doesn't mind running something a lot, if they're making progress and getting closer to their goal each time.  That's fundamentally different than a wildstar raid.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Looking forward to a YouTube video of all those uberskilled DS raiders doing GA without any gear slotted except their weapons. Seeing as they've got the mad skillz that don't need the gear.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I didn't say gear was unnecessary. I certainly never implied that you could do GA with only a weapon slotted.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Eclips, you've almost got it, but not quite.
 
In WS mechanics and excellent play are a huge part of it. More important than in most games. Gear does gate a little bit, but mostly it serves the lower skilled folks by making the fights easier the more gear they get.
 
X-89 was dooable at launch with not-great gear by 16 people. But this was 16 people playing very skillfully. Mechanics was more important than gear. Kuralak didn't take much longer to go down, even pre T8 OV (because people didn't know about that), and Kuralak is regarded by many as one of the hardest bosses in GA. The gear my raid group is using is WAY above what those folks were doing, and we still struggle with Kuralak (certainly not a one shot). But having great gear does make it possible for less dedicated players like us. Some day, gear available through dungeons will allow people to do Kuralak without even getting to 8 eggs, which makes the fight quite easy.
 
Yeah, gear is somewhat of a gate, but more than anything I've found it's getting the mechanics down that's really important and gear just helps a bit. No, you can't just waltz into DS with dungeon gear, but then again, why do you want to when there's a whole raid before it that you'd be skipping?
----
			
this post seems to be eerily similar to this one https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/122804-stop-wasting-effort-on-new-content-that-does-not-allow-progression/
 
a lot of good stuff was said in there so i hope people can take a gander at the old post before commenting on this one.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Looking forward to a YouTube video of all those uberskilled DS raiders doing GA without any gear slotted except their weapons. Seeing as they've got the mad skillz that don't need the gear.
----
			
why not just wait in the next raid, time will nerf the content.6 months ago i barely made a STL and KV silver runs, and some SC bronze runs (i play since release but im not the brightest apple of the pve tree), in that time my first sucessfull SSM run took 4,5 hours and we didnt get any medal.  When the time came the gear of the average player rised, and now i can make silver on all dungeons in LFG and run GA on my main and pugs on the alts, those pugs are around 3/6-6/6 GA, in a few months we will see all pugs 6/6 on GA and some pugs running DS 1/9-3/9.
 
we didnt believe the content will nerf itself but here we are now silvering (and even golding) in LFG the part of the attunement we were saying was too hard, and one shottin x-86, kuralak and phage maw when months ago kuralak was the guild breaker.i think with upcoming redmoon terror raid we will see more pugs of DS, and even with Initialization Core Y-83 we will see more pugs (cause it dont need attunement !) and that boost gear will make GA pugs easier.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
May I suggest the more accurate statement "Gear is in fact absolutely required, but you can get by with somewhat worse gear if you are more skilled, as is the case in every MMORPG ever written."
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Dear Carbine, and Wildstar community.
 
At first, sorry for bad english.
 
Is there any idea to bring some other ways to gain legendary quality items? 
I mean, there are a lot of people who just can't raid. Some people just cant do it because of many reasons. Family, work, life. Also not everybody can use TS because of speakers problems or any other devices. Raiding is not able for everybody.
 
Legendary quality items makes this game even more fun, but yea... there's a lot of ppl who just can't have them. I would like to see some way to have GA or DS quality gear without raiding even if that way would be much, much harder and longer. 
Actually Wildstar imposes player to play in raids, thats why some of those players just going to get bored after gathering superb quality gear (and this is not hard to do).
 
My suggestion is to make some new way to let lonely players gain GA quality items and then to improve them to DS quality items without raiding. But still should be worth less than raids, because of time cost.
 
Whats is your opinion about that?
 
----
			
For the record, and I realize I'm probably alone in this, I'd have no problem with PvP gear being DS viable, provided it took the same level of time and effort to acquire as it does to clear GA with a guild.
 
It really frustrates me that in about two evenings I was able to pick up the 1800 weapon and trivialize the effort it took to get my previous weapon.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
For the record, and I realize I'm probably alone in this, I'd have no problem with PvP gear being DS viable, provided it took the same level of time and effort to acquire as it does to clear GA with a guild.
 
It really frustrates me that in about two evenings I was able to pick up the 1800 weapon and trivialize the effort it took to get my previous weapon.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're not alone in that. I'm a big believer in the idea that there should be multiple paths to the same endgame quality. I also noted with concern how quickly it was possible to blow through the progression for PvP gear once the ratings requirement was removed without increasing the prestige requirement.
----
			
The funny thing is that if you get every possible reward from a simple activity, say questing or shiphands, then you will never have the incentive to to do anything above that, which means that you have effectively finished the game. Technically there is a lot more content available, but we all know that pretty much no one runs content that is not incentivised. So, game over there, cupcake. And we all know what happens when there is nothing left to do ingame.
 
And yeah, I think solo content in MMO defeats the point of being an MMO. I don't want to be that guy, but if you want hard solo content you play Souls or anything of that ilk.  	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Unlike others, I *do* think that you could bake in a challenge that warrants the gear, even without having to coordinate with other people, but solo-wiping for 300 pulls or so is not something most people are going put up with for a single boss.
----
			
"This games not for you, go play something else."
 
... And people wonder what happened to Wildstar	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So why not allow solo players/pvpers and the like to earn the purple drops using tokens and such? That way, given enough time, they could reach the point where they could participate, and not be a waste of space, in the raids.
----
			
1 token = 15 DS boss kills
30,000 glory
60,000 prestige
240,000 renown	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"This games not for you, go play something else."
 
... And people wonder what happened to Wildstar
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So now players are proud to wear a badge displaying their lack of skill and dedication? "Look what happened to WildStar"? The answer is players were too entitled and lazy to play as a team and EARN the rewards.
 
You bought WildStar knowing exactly that their intention was... it was going to take dedication and skill to succeed in this game. If players are not willing to commit both, then why should they have the same opportunity at progression? This game is all about *doing* the content to get rewards, not saving your weekly allowance of tokens to get it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, about that 300 pulls or so.
 
That wouldn't happen to include the number of times your raid group wipes on a boss prior to it being nerfed so that you can beat it, would it? Because that number certainly has gotten bigger since the last time we seriously discussed this topic, and it's now clear that some of those epic difficulty estimates coming from raiders had more to do with buggy, poorly-tuned content than it did with actual progression raiding.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"This games not for you, go play something else."
 
... And people wonder what happened to Wildstar
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, the gear shouldn't be the reward.
 
" the players were too entitled and lazy to play as a team" is a silly excuse
 
Its more like
 
"The designers did not reach a target audience in 2014 that settled beyond 150k sub's"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
1 token = 15 DS boss kills
30,000 glory
60,000 prestige
240,000 renown
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, players have been groomed to be puppy dogs on a treadmill, begging for treats as they keep running toward no destination. They cannot put forth any effort, or god forbid display any skill, because if they have to do that just to get a reward, the game sucks.
 
It is *absolutely* the players, not the game.
----
			
But Yasfan, there are folks putting in at least 20 hours a week and have been for months that have not downed Avatus.
 
So let's put this in perspective to a solo player.
 
Give them 15 bosses to kill, with a difficulty that requires 20 hours a week for several months to get them all down- and for each boss that goes down you have a 10% chance at getting an upgrade to your gear.
 
I just don't think there are many people who are going to sign up for that.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This scale is way off.
 
And why do you continually ignore GA?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The scale could use some refining, but that's not the point. The point is that there should multiple avenues to the same goal.
 
 
also, I dont ignore ga, this game has been out for 9 months. People want to ignore GA, but can't, thanks to the gear gate
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
also, I dont ignore ga, this game has been out for 9 months. People want to ignore GA, but can't, thanks to the gear gate
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The scale could use some refining, but that's not the point. The point is that there should multiple avenues to the same goal.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Who wants to ignore GA? You? I don't know of people who want to ignore GA. People I know are thrilled to be progression raiding in GA. Why skip all that wonderful content?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because you don't want to watch season 4 of walking dead every week, just to watch new episodes of season 5. Sure, youll watch it once or twice, but you'll move on to content yet consumed.
----
			
He means the endless grind for the needed gear.
If the gear was all closer together then there would be less need, also once you get full GA gear dungeons become almost laughable :(
Don;t even want to think how easy it might become with full DS geared party...	
----
			This is how garbage like LFR is conceived. No thanks. If you're not raiding you don't raiding gear.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't understand the analogy. I wouldn't watch season 5 of walking dead until I've watched season 4. Most people have not completed GA, so this is still very relevant content to the player base.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He means the endless grind for the needed gear.
If the gear was all closer together then there would be less need, also once you get full GA gear dungeons become almost laughable :(
Don;t even want to think how easy it might become with full DS geared party...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because you don't want to watch season 4 of walking dead every week, just to watch new episodes of season 5. Sure, youll watch it once or twice, but you'll move on to content yet consumed.
 
I think at this point it would be better to re evaluate our goals from this post rather than continue this line of hypotheticals. Go check out ffxiv raid structure and their gearing system. That's something that I prefer far better than Wildstar's.
----
			
Maybe this is the "hardcore" view, but I believe raid-quality gear should come from raids. Just like arena-quality comes from Arenas, etc. If you want the gear, earn it. Don't trivialize the hard work so many people have put in for months just so you can feel equal. Don't try to take away the sense of accomplishment that raiders feel when they finally kill that boss, when, after so many tries, they can one-shot that boss the next week. When they finally get the hang of that mechanic that was such a thorn.
 
Why do you want to skip GA so badly? Do you honestly believe you're ready for DS just because you have GA/DS quality gear that you earned from somewhere other than a raid, especially if you -skipped- GA? DS is a whole nother level of difficulty. You need GA to learn how to cooperate, how to work as a team, how to behave with certain situations and how to handle different and new mechanics. Videos don't cut it. Experience does.
 
I understand that you want to feel competitive when you come up against that raid geared DPS in a PuG dungeon, but they earned what they have (or got carried but whatever, they went through content). I understand that not everyone has the time to raid and so it might seem unfair, but every aspect of the game can't be for everyone. Some people will probably never get that high-end pvp gear, and that's ok. Some people might never have the time to get pink-quality or even orange quality raid gear, and that's ok, too. Some people might have to wait months, while they and their team improve. Some people might have to wait until the content is eventually nerfed, or until their RL situation changes so that they have time.
 
And guess what? That is -ok-. Every aspect can't be for every person.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
He means the endless grind for the needed gear.
If the gear was all closer together then there would be less need, also once you get full GA gear dungeons become almost laughable :(
Don;t even want to think how easy it might become with full DS geared party...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They added a ton of purple quality side grades in the glory vendor for this purpose... Now a player only needs to kill the first boss of the instance (x89 for GA) and is able to buy several items from the vendor. Once they go DS and beat the first boss (System Daemons) they will suddenly be able to buy 4-5 DS purple quality items.
 
They added tokens to bosses that can be traded for legendary quality items. These tokens help remove then RNG and the grind... With a system like this you do not need to wait weeks until something for your specific class drops, you just need to get the proper armor type and you can choose to give it to which class (SS or Esper, Stalker or Medic, Warrior or Engi.. Support or DPS). The number of times you need to clear GA is significantly lower than before with this new system.
----
			
If I wanted to schedule my time away for hours a week to put in hard work-- I'd just work overtime in the office.
 
Guys, this is a game, and I pay 15$ a month too. If I spend time in it, I should slowly have access to the same gear as you, you should just be getting it faster. Raid gear doesn't just help raiders, its direct pve upgrades.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If I wanted to schedule my time away for hours a week to put in hard work-- I'd just work overtime in the office.
 
Guys, this is a game, and I pay 15$ a month too. If I spend time in it, I should slowly have access to the same gear as you, you should just be getting it faster. Raid gear doesn't just help raiders, its direct pve upgrades.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I know power creep is insane in this game, but trivializing GA so people can just skip it isn't the answer. That would be so terrible. I haven't experienced DS yet to know, but GA is pretty much the best raid I've ever experienced. Having people leap-frog that would just be so sad.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you still need to complete GA before you can get into DS
 
Anyway i rather have things closer together because that would mean that dungeons would still be challenging.
----
			
Ok so it's gear you want... well do you think it's appropriate to say you should spend the same amount of time getting it as others have?
 
What I'm getting at is it should take you 20 times as long as it took for a group to clear GA/DS for you to get that gear if you're going to solo it.  Or give you content that is 20 times more challenging and let you smash your head against it for the same amount of time it took 20 to clear GA/DS.
 
Coordinating 20 people to do these things takes time and it's only be fair for you to spend as much time as others to get the gear.  Not just get gear because you spent some time failing etc etc.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you still need to complete GA before you can get into DS
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right. Why is it people want to skip GA again?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If I wanted to schedule my time away for hours a week to put in hard work-- I'd just work overtime in the office.
 
Guys, this is a game, and I pay 15$ a month too. If I spend time in it, I should slowly have access to the same gear as you, you should just be getting it faster. Raid gear doesn't just help raiders, its direct pve upgrades.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right. Why is it people want to skip GA again?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Right. Why is it people want to skip GA again?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
not sure where you read that...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If I wanted to schedule my time away for hours a week to put in hard work-- I'd just work overtime in the office.
 
Guys, this is a game, and I pay 15$ a month too. If I spend time in it, I should slowly have access to the same gear as you, you should just be getting it faster. Raid gear doesn't just help raiders, its direct pve upgrades.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Eclpis said earlier: "People want to ignore GA, but can't, thanks to the gear gate"
 
I quoted you saying you still have to do GA because, given the flow of the conversation, it sounded like having to do GA was a bad thing. I apologize if I misunderstood.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I thought he meant it differently though.
Like he said it's okay to watch season 4, 2 or 3 times but then you want to watch season 5.
 
That;s why i hate the dailies zones so much ><
----
			This whole thread is a colossal joke. If you want raid gear, go raid; Simple as that. Cant raid/Don't want to raid? That's your problem, not the games.Why should you get the same gear as me if i put in x100 more hours and work to get them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But Yasfan, there are folks putting in at least 20 hours a week and have been for months that have not downed Avatus.
 
So let's put this in perspective to a solo player.
 
Give them 15 bosses to kill, with a difficulty that requires 20 hours a week for several months to get them all down- and for each boss that goes down you have a 10% chance at getting an upgrade to your gear.
 
I just don't think there are many people who are going to sign up for that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Since DS20 has only been out since early February, the statement that people haven't downed Avatus who have been working on it for 20 hours a week for several months is exactly the kind of overstatement I was talking about in my last post. Time spent bashing your raid group against buggy untuned content is irrelevant to me. What matters is how many attempts it takes a raid group to clear properly-tuned content.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If I wanted to schedule my time away for hours a week to put in hard work-- I'd just work overtime in the office.
 
Guys, this is a game, and I pay 15$ a month too. If I spend time in it, I should slowly have access to the same gear as you, you should just be getting it faster. Raid gear doesn't just help raiders, its direct pve upgrades.
----
			
Just leaving this here
I like that about GW2 btw, it was clear, easy and simple
edit: they screwed that up with fractals though >>
 
http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/
 
Before even answering this question, I want to point out that in Guild Wars 2, being competitive isn’t all about having the best gear. It’s not like you’re going to go into world-versus-world and get smoked because someone else has a godly weapon that you can’t hope to acquire. We’ve always been against that kind of thing.
 
Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sorry i was under the impression we raid because we enjoy it not because its work. 
 
There's nothing wrong with scheduling your time away for hours a week for a hobby. 
 
PS: For the record i am aware you are not really interested in this topic and only stirring the pot, don't think you're fooling me. :D
----
			
just a couple of quick questions before i can asses this situation.
 
1. does op have time to raid?
2. does op want to raid?
 
if yes, no. i have no words. it available to you and you can get it why is this a problem
 
if yes, yes. then please just go and do raids you will get the gear its easy.
 
if no, yes. i honestly feel sorry for you. raiding is fantastic and one of the only reasons i still play. now there could be reasons why you cant raid like you literally work too often or even though you dont work that often you stand to sit ina  single session for more than 2 hours. the best advice i can give to you is to try and manage your time and make space much like you would a hobby. there are quite a few casual guilds (i say this because of the # of hours a week they play not their ability to clear content) that have short raid times that you can fit in your schedule. no, yes is the worst scenario.
 
if no, no. you dont have the time and you dont want to raid but you want the gear? i ask you aside from cosmetics what reason would you have for this roided-out gear? what do you do that requires this? is it for bragging rights? if cosmetics is what you want i would def agree and would vote for making them purchasable with plat or another form or currency or maybe an achievement. if its so you can clear non-raid content faster i am confused. if its for bragging then i would suggest an alternate form of achieving this goal.
 
let me know which it is so we can laser in on the issues.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because you don't want to watch season 4 of walking dead every week, just to watch new episodes of season 5. Sure, youll watch it once or twice, but you'll move on to content yet consumed.
 
I think at this point it would be better to re evaluate our goals from this post rather than continue this line of hypotheticals. Go check out ffxiv raid structure and their gearing system. That's something that I prefer far better than Wildstar's.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So you agree that loot should be available, not a barrier?
 
Also, I've beaten GA a few times in a pug on the weekends, it's not so bad.  Just wish I didn't have to keep beating it over and over for DS to be viable.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sorry i was under the impression we raid because we enjoy it not because its work. 
 
There's nothing wrong with scheduling your time away for hours a week for a hobby. 
 
PS: For the record i am aware you are not really interested in this topic and only stirring the pot, don't think you're fooling me. :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No no, it'a called progression.
 
And getting carried through GA without putting in the time to learn the fights doesn't qualify. It means you have not progressed enough in skill or itemization to be even allowed to attempt DS.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I didn't get carried!  I got the gear from dungeons that gave me the gear level that I needed, I ran tk storm and sometimes haunt (sometimes LOL),   Even in the pugs, I never died or messed up my role as esper dps once I got a pull or two in!
 
Hey I even tanked Ohmna without ever getting a piece of GA tanking gear and made 0 mistakes!  Why can't I go into DS?
 
Oh, right--- because of RNG,  I've been doing dungeons / PvP / shiphands / attunement to help for the same amount of months that they've been in DS, but I still don't have the gear to experience the content at a reasonable rate.
 
I can't just watch Season 5, I have to watch Season 4 over and over again until I'm capable of understanding every bit of foreshadowing / allusion they're going to make in season 5!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well just like you ran dungeons and adventures many times over to be ready for GA, you must run GA many times over to be ready for DS! It can't just be one or two times. Believe it or not, you wouldn't find it fun.
 
It provides a sense of progression, and that is a very strong driver. Too many players think that just skipping to the end is what they prefer... only to find there's nothing after it but the end.
 
Savor the flavor, this is real team raid progression that the world hasn't seen in 10 years.
 
Edit: Just to address the non-sensical comparison you're making to passive media. Lets use this example instead: They will not give you a black belt in karate until you've earned it. Earning it unlocks many things, including access to fight the highest ranked opponents.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
well, some people enjoy playing in the mud.
... and as far as scheduling goes, you're kind of missing the point here.  there is nothing wrong with scheduling away your week for a hobby.  That's not what's happening here.  What's happening here, is that 2 people are trying to build a model train set.  One person is going to an 8pm train building session for 3 hours a night, building a great train set.  At that session, he's given better paint brushes, better paint, better adhesive, etc, that he can even take home.  3 months later, that person has a badass trainset collection that he goes to put on his track, to show off to his friends.  In that same 3 months, person 2 has gone out of town, gone to football games, gone on dates, but still tried to find time in his day at night to work on his train set.    He manages his time the best he can, because his kids are at the age of throwing the dog around for no reason, and coloring on the walls.  Person 2 loves train sets though, and tries his best to produce something of value.  After 3 months, person 2 has only managed to put together and paint 2 cars for his trainset.  Person 2 isn't upset that he can't have more cars to complete his collection:
 
He's upset because his paint is less shiny, his adhesive isn't as strong, and his paint brushes are worn out.  Even though he's spent the same amount of hours, he's rewarded with a less shiny result.
 
In 2 months, the new train model set comes out.  Person 1 can't wait to get back into train class and build more trains.  Person 2 says screw it, because his result is just going to be lackluster in the end, anyway.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Look, I'm not going to argue over which boss we're talking about. I wasn't trying to inflate numbers. From what I understood it took months for the first DS40 kill, and that's the kind of time commitment that would await the solo player. I don't know how much of that was buggy code, but I think a HUGE amount of it was just learning the bosses and coordinating. It's hard to say much about DS20 because a lot of guilds had already learned the 40 versions of the fight and had that gear.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is a bad analogy. If you were to just hand out the gear to people who havent even remotely earned it then why would the people that actually put the time and effort to get the gear do progression to get said gear. It completely kills the feeling of actually progressing and killing a boss getting some loot as a sign of "Yes! We made it past this seemingly impossible obstacle through dedication and hard work" instead it turns into "Yay we killed this boss, but the shiny new loot we got means jack shit if rando mcranderson has it when he has put in 1/16th of the time and effort to get said loot"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yea but I can go do dungeons whenever I want, and it doesn't have to be with 19 other people.  If there was like a solo or small group version of GA that could be done in an hour or two a night I could probably be up for that.  I don't really want to skip to the end, I just don't want gear to be a barrier to me knowing that each day I'm not running GA over and and over again, is another day I'm not closer to DS.
 
Real team raid progression that the world hasn't seen in 10 years?  I watch DCarter's stream and see Afterlife progression.  I get to watch World Last streams etc.  Hell, half of those streamers have addons that draw lines on the screen and announce with a nice friendly voice when to jump or where to stand etc.  I hardly doubt this is something groundbreaking that hasn't been seen in 10 years. Goodness gracious, exclusive and inaccessible does not equal quality and difficulty.
 
Karate?  You mean the hobby where you all start with the same gear, level up entirely at your own pace, gain higher rank based on your skill and dedication,  Karate doesn't give you a sword or a pair of nunchuks for being dedicated / skilled enough to reach the level of "black belt."
----
			
What if they put each Tier 2 set on the vendor, dropped it 2 ilvls, gave it a less cool looking skin, and charged 420 elder gems for the chest and pants and weapon, 300 for head gloves and feet, 250 for the shield, and the right side pieces each.
 
See?  Overtime people could still get the gear they need to kill Avatus, but they'd get it faster if they were raiding DS.  You'd still get to be "superior," because your gear is exclusive, but you wouldn't be punished so hard by RNG, and the average player wouldn't be so far behind because they didn't schedule 20 hours a week for raiding.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And a television season *is* the right analogy?
 
Look, raiding is not for you... THIS is progression raiding. That's why they call it that. This is what fans of it enjoy about it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I didn't get carried!  I got the gear from dungeons that gave me the gear level that I needed, I ran tk storm and sometimes haunt (sometimes LOL),   Even in the pugs, I never died or messed up my role as esper dps once I got a pull or two in!
 
Hey I even tanked Ohmna without ever getting a piece of GA tanking gear and made 0 mistakes!  Why can't I go into DS?
 
Oh, right--- because of RNG,  I've been doing dungeons / PvP / shiphands / attunement to help for the same amount of months that they've been in DS, but I still don't have the gear to experience the content at a reasonable rate.
 
I can't just watch Season 5, I have to watch Season 4 over and over again until I'm capable of understanding every bit of foreshadowing / allusion they're going to make in season 5!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You tanked Ohmna in blues?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Do you have a video of it?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No! Vet SSM epics (and some blues)!
 
I did a really good job too (I'm a warrior.)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If you want to find it on Audio Style's highlights, I'm sure its there somewhere!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What if they put each Tier 2 set on the vendor, dropped it 2 ilvls, gave it a less cool looking skin, and charged 420 elder gems for the chest and pants and weapon, 300 for head gloves and feet, 250 for the shield, and the right side pieces each.
 
See?  Overtime people could still get the gear they need to kill Avatus, but they'd get it faster if they were raiding DS.  You'd still get to be "superior," because your gear is exclusive, but you wouldn't be punished so hard by RNG, and the average player wouldn't be so far behind because they didn't schedule 20 hours a week for raiding.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well just like you ran dungeons and adventures many times over to be ready for GA, you must run GA many times over to be ready for DS! It can't just be one or two times. Believe it or not, you wouldn't find it fun.
 
It provides a sense of progression, and that is a very strong driver. Too many players think that just skipping to the end is what they prefer... only to find there's nothing after it but the end.
 
Savor the flavor, this is real team raid progression that the world hasn't seen in 10 years.
 
Edit: Just to address the non-sensical comparison you're making to passive media. Lets use this example instead: They will not give you a black belt in karate until you've earned it. Earning it unlocks many things, including access to fight the highest ranked opponents.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So you agree that loot should be available, not a barrier?
 
Also, I've beaten GA a few times in a pug on the weekends, it's not so bad.  Just wish I didn't have to keep beating it over and over for DS to be viable.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
If progression and content completion are the reward, why do you care if someone else gets the same loot you do, at a slower rate?
 
Better quality gear that makes the content easier shouldn't be the reward, especially if working together and winning are the reward themselves.
... and he wouldn't be putting in 1/16th of the time and effort, he'd most likely be putting in either the exact same time and effort, or more time and effort.
 
Would you be okay with someone getting equivalent ilvl gear over time, as long as it doesn't look as cool as yours?  Or your exclusive raid gear + the hypothetical gear to become best in slot?
 
because that's exactly how FFXIV does it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, not at all. 
 
 Regardless, how do you even begin to expect to do DS if all you do is pug?  No progressing DS guild would bring along someone who only has experience PUGing GA unless you have an impressive MMO history. 
----
			
@Byonna, guess Wildstar raiding has bigger issues to worry about then.
 
Maybe they should expand that SD glory set to a full ilvl 74.  After all, if i74 is such a huge upgrade from i68/69 GA gear, wouldn't it stand to say that i79 (5 ilvls) is a huge upgrade from i74 gear?
{| class="blockquote"
You're not understanding what I'm saying, The gear is a sign that YOU worked hard. Harder than rando mcranderson, So why should rando mcranderson get the same stuff as you?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
So you're cool with the exclusiveness of cosmetic gear, and the power upgrade difference isn't such a big deal, right?  I mean, his name doesn't say Rando McRanderson.Invincible(), while he rides on a datascape speeder, right?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Except the gear isint cosmetic, It makes it easier to clear the content you have already progressed on, Why should somebody who isint as progressed as you have the gear to make the fight easier if they havent killed the fight?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because they're the ones that need the gear the most?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Then let them earn it. Dont hand it out to them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why?  You have plenty of time for progression before they have the supplemental gear.  Besides, you're getting gear way quicker than they are because you're clearing up to the progression boss every week!
 
Are you really that into your gear, that you think the gear you got off the boss drops is more important than the title / speederbike from killing Avatus?  You guys already won the world race to Avatus, why do you care at what rate other people get to him?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Because I care about the game not turning into pansy simulator 2015, I dont want to see DS and GA turn into LFR from wow. And I actually care to keep the ability for people to feel like they are progressing not "Oh ive just logged in for the past few weeks, heres a piece of armor!"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
??? It's not re-tuning the difficulty of the bosses at all.  Just giving the players better gear to confront them with after a while.  Who cares what gear someone else has?
----