100585-if-youre-casual-its-okay-not-everyone-iscan-be-hardcore

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Reading the server forums (and recruitment) I broke out laughing way too hard at 2 AM at what a guild proclaimed themselves to be:
 
"Casual Hardcore PvX."
 
 
 
 
How much more broad brush can you get? I mean there's more, too! Semi-hardcore (lol that breaks the meaning of the word 'hardcore,') semi-casual ​(ok this one makes a bit more sense,) group PVE (right! we can go questing together!) I mean the list just goes on. Getting back to the ultimate broad brush of Casual Hardcore PvX, how about you be honest with yourself:
 
"We're a group of people that like to do stuff together."
 
Because really, that's what you do. You want to call yourselves hardcore, but you are casual. Therefore not hardcore in any way. It's a deterrent to those who know what hardcore means. Hardcore means one thing: 7 days a week, 24/7. Anything less than that is what I would call "3-nighter guild" or something to that effect. It's funny, talking to people and listening to them say in voice chat "yeah, we're a hardcore group but we appreciate that people have lives and stuff, so we don't go full on." Okay boss, you sure got me there. I've got a life. If something were to happen to my life mid-raid (say my freezer were to start leaking Freon or my cat were to catch fire) I would be disconnecting and taking care of that right away. And I'd expect to be kicked from the guild for it! Because they're hardcore. Right?
 
After running a Minecraft server and reading through tons and tons of mindless gibberish (did you know EVERY server is a tight-knit family and runs a lag-free server? Neither did I until I read recruitment forums!) I have decided that literally, every guild is the same unless you actually have a defining feature to make you stand out. Thing is, most people can spot whether someone is genuinely unique or not. Seeing stuff like "Casual Hardcore PvX" lets everyone know that they're one of the dime-a-dozen guilds where everyone is happy cuddle fluff and kittens. I know it, everyone else knows it and the guildies, well they try to pretend that isn't what they mean.
 
I've created a mining circle. Mining circles are pretty simple in Wildstar. You log in, you do a run in your circle and you go about your other game business. Thing is that mining circles could actually really be put down to hardcore or casual. A hardcore mining circle would consist of only elite plots with enough players to fill the exact amount of time to make it a profitable venture for everyone involved. So what'd wind up happening is math would be crunched and pretty soon (say 4-5 nodes are up every 30 minutes) you'd have every 30 minutes someone would start running the circle. Maximum potential achieved, maximum profitability reached. Hardcore. Casual, on the other hand is giving access to a bunch of people no matter the tier, no matter if they even have plots on their land. You just want to get people to come through and mine your nodes so you get profit. So I realized earlier something interesting happened. I was actually creating a very typical mining circle. Yes, tier 4 and elite only, but I only had maybe 10 mails today from people tapping my shiny new elite deposit. Did I feel a little bummed? Yeah. Why? Because my expectation of being hardcore wasn't lining up with other players ideas of how mining circles work. I figure a lot of people join circles and have the plots up and don't actually ever go mine for themselves because they are too lazy to care or are busy with other things, or maybe they're just not interested and want the passive income. Who knows? Fact is, I could create something really unique if I wanted to by making an elite-only group. Then the semantics unravel into the fact that it's actually okay just to have a TON of people in the mining circle and mine whatever's available whenever, so is being hardcore even efficient? Etc.
 
This is all a bit random, but then I realize we're playing Wildstar, which is a game that actually started off by attracting a large group of gamers. Now a good chunk of who are left are the truly dedicated and ones who want to see the game thrive. Those people can choose whether they want to be hardcore or not, but for some casual players (who are not admittedly casual) it's a slap in the face to call a casual player casual. I'm 31, I'm casual now. I used to be hardcore. I used to take calls at 2:30 AM to go defend control towers (Eve online, sorry) because that's when Europe was up bright and early to cupcake our Western cupcakes up. I did hardcore for ten years. Now I can say I'm casual. Does that upset me? Well, not too much. I know I have a life. I have things to do. I'm not the single bachelor that I was ten years ago. Games are fun, and they still remain to be really entertaining.
 
When I got started leveling in Wildstar I told everybody I'd be 50 in a couple days. Oh man was I wrong. Not even a week. I'm level 46 and I'm a little over ten days in now. Ha, the enjoyment of the game kicked in now and I am actually finding myself enjoying the story when it's not buggy and having a grand old time. Honeymoon period? Sure. But I want to raid when I hit 50. Just remember though that the learning moments of any new experience (especially games) hold the most strong memories, which is why everyone is always like "I REMEMBER BACK WHEN WE HAD TO ACTUALLY ATTUNE TO GET INTO RAIDS" or "I REMEMBER WHEN TALENT POINTS MEANT WORK AND THEORYCRAFTING NOT ONE CLICK PER TEN LEVELS" etc.
 
Guys (and gals,) it's okay to be casual. Please do not insult us with your claims to be hardcore if you're not. You waste my time, you waste your time. In the end it just turns out to be a big waste of time.
 
Thanks o/	
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			Some fair understandable points	
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			I used to be in a semi-harcore guild and our GM explained very well what it meant at that time. It means that we have a casual and relaxed attitude towards our members and others but when we raid, we are anything but casual. 	
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			"It's okay to not be a member of the hardcore 1%ers." I should think so.  :lol: Hardcore seems to be really poorly defined here on the forums, dodging telegraphs and interrupting isn't hard core. 	
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I like to think that the semi/casual-hardcore kind of refers to someone who used to be hardcore and is a very good player but just doesnt have as much time as time in their hands as they used to.
 
Now if only I could find a group of 20-30 people that are like this... people who dont want to play 24/7 but are still good at the game and dont take ages to learn and execute the simplest of mechanics.	
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I like to think that the semi/casual-hardcore kind of refers to someone who used to be hardcore and is a very good player but just doesnt have as much time as time in their hands as they used to.
 
Now if only I could find a group of 20-30 people that are like this... people who dont want to play 24/7 but are still good at the game and dont take ages to learn and execute the simplest of mechanics.
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Casual does come with sort of a pitfall in it though. Namely that "casual=lower skill/bad". That anyone who is "casual" will play to a lesser ability, and if you want to get anything done, you need to be "hardcore". After all, thats the whole thing the big guilds touted, that they were "hardcore", and everyone is "hardcore", to the point where hardcore became synonymous with "The best of the best" (And rightfully so), and casual became a dirty word, meaning the scrubs who ran around WoW, struggling to clear minor raids and were bashing their faces against walls while others screamed for them to do things the right way. No one wants to be "casual", as it implies being one of them...the ones who can't play, and will never do nothing but struggle to do even dungeons. I think the best term people are looking for is probably "Mid-core", simply because it doesn't carry the stigma of "casual" and the dirtiness that confers, since you can still be a regular, skilled player, just not with an absurd amount of time to dedicate to this one single thing only. Yet not Hardcore, where they will always be on the bleeding edge, spending hours, and days, number crunching and trying to find the absolute best way to do X, so they can down entire raids within a week of them coming out.
 
Mid-core. Where you play the game often, are still good at it, and have the desire to improve and experience content, but just don't have the time or patience to utterly throw every single aspect of your life into something, yet not casual where you just want to chill, and enjoy the lower aspect of things either. Where 3-4 months in, you may still be 4/6 or 5/6 in Genetic Archives while the Hardcore have already put Datascape and the next raid on farm, waiting rabidly for the next raid to come out.	
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I get what you're saying OP, as im playing casually for the first time as well. And I think WildStar is the perfect place to do so, as the amount of stuff you can do at level 50 is overwhelming in a good way.
 
Now, when thats said, I wouldnt be playing this game at all, or any game for that matter, if a large group of the playerbase werent hardcore. You should always strive to be the best you can be, and if no one cared to do so, and the progress of your character didnt mean squat, there'd be no incentive to play the game. Progress matters, even though you progress at a different pace.	
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Hardcore meant 24/7?
 
o.O  I missed that memo or that time period.
 
My old co-worker was hard-core WoW raider.  every evening several hours of WoW.
I was a hard-core DDO raider.  Every evening several hours of DDO.  Daily raids!  
 
We held jobs and went to school and were hard-core.  
 
24/7, HA.	
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You mean good players?
 
edit: I consider myself to be a good player, but as I said in the OP I'm not HC any longer. I would probably refer to myself as a player with a fast learning curve, if anything, and would actually drop the pretenses of either hardcore or casual. Applying tags to everything just because it's what the masses do doesn't always work.
 
Take another game for example, League. In League there are bads. Bads are players who can't think or don't respond to plays. I call truly epic bad players "quality bads" because you can expect them to always do the wrong thing. I called good players "good" and exceptional players "great."
 
In that game the rate of play determines hardcore or casual, I think. I'm diamond rated solo queue, but I play solo queue only maybe once or twice a week now. I'm definitely not hardcore, but I'm not a bad player, either :P
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Well yeah.
 
I do think that a good player with years of HC raiding-experience will be better than just a good player with little experience :P
 
And in most cases you wont get good without lots of practice anyways, even though the time it takes varies from person to person ^^
 
Works with League too, you wont get to Diamond without playing a ton of games. But some people will make it in 500 games, some people might need 2000 :) Though seriously I hate that game due to losing so many promos because someone in my team decided to DC/go AFK.
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As with most terms used by the MMO community, 'hardcore' and 'casual' don't have a standard meaning, each and every player has their own definition of what they mean, so in order for your post to make any sense, it would be a good idea for you to start with what YOUR definition of the 2 words mean.
 
I don't consider a 24/7 approach to playing any game as hardcore, I see that as just plain stupid.
I don't consider playing only at weekends as casual, I know many players that are dedicated (and very good) raiders that for RL reasons can't play during the week.
 
Also you seem to suggest that you're either 'Hardcore' or 'Casual', it's mot as simple as that. it's not black or white, there are many shades of grey in between.	
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Hardcore, softcore, softserve, whippy cream.
 
Whatever your orientation people shouldn't limit themselves based on a label that no-one agrees on what means what.
 
 
It basically works out like this:
 
 
Anyone with less skill/gear then me is a noob.
Anyone with more skill/gear then me has no life.	
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It is very much possible to have a casual hardcore guild, where "casual" comes in the schedule and "hardcore" in philosophy and skill level. You can raid less hours at the very serious level, you won't progress as fast, but the raids themselves and the guild mentality can very much match that of a fully hardcore guild. Just with real lives in consideration. It used to be the norm a while ago, until the race for world firsts got way out of hand, in my opinion, demanding people to log in insane hours just to be able to compete.
 
Hardcore doesn't mean 24/7 playing whatever content of your choice - it is more how you go about it, than how much time you put in. Some groups need way longer to complete something another group can accomplish in a short time-span, so if anything the time investment is very relative when it comes to the hardcore concept. Mostly it comes down to skill and preferred play style. You can throw yourself at content 24/7 ultimately zerging it down and claim you're "hardcore", or you can use a different approach of careful planning and strategizing because you know you have a limited number of attempts in a week due to time constraint and accomplish the same goal. When doesn't matter in this concept, only how.
 
In other words, "casual" doesn't mean bad, just not having the luxury of being online all day. It is in no way an opposite of the term "hardcore", the two can very well go hand in hand.	
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I used to be hardcore, then we took fair weather raiders into the guild. There were 20 - 22 of us who'd be there for anything, whether it was on farm mode or a masochistic wipe fest because we were still learning the encounter. The rest - the fair weather raiders - were always available for farming but often busy with RL stuff when we were planning to butt heads with a new boss. So we stopped announcing raid targets in advance and lo and behold, suddenly the fair weather raiders were less busy with RL stuff. Well, it often felt like we had to carry them through the tougher shit. Combine that with periods of raiding every evening and what do you get? Burn-out.
 
Hmm... Why did I start rambling about that crap? Something about being hardcore can be overrated... I think.	
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			Its ok this isn't for everyone.  You casuals have plenty of games.  Just not this one.	
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 I am a casual player now.
 
I use to have the time to raid and spend the hours upon hours needed to gain that " hard core status" I just can not do it any more ( nor do I want to). I can remember days  of nonstop playing just to down that boss to get the tiny upgrade to my healing gear ( but it had 2 more intel on it) . I do not miss those days. I personally can get as much satisfaction out of playing my way than conforming to the " OmGewdd your a casual you suck"  . I just giggle and smile and know when I turn off my computer you do not exist to me.
 
The beauty of a game is it can be enjoyed in so many ways...it is a make believe world filled with pixels. It is entertainment. How I choose to entertain myself is up to me. If I don't have the shiniest  gear and still happy... who cares.. Casual ...Hardcore ...kid crying in the corner  who cares. I come in after a particularly long duty I just want to play.
 
The thing  I see (IMHO)is this seems just to be an issue on the forums. The game is filled with guilds advertising a laid back casual game environment. The groups that wish to progress have guilds the semi and the casuals ....plenty to go around . I have never ran across anyone in game that has stopped and asked me ... "HALT you can not have fun unless you are One of these" .Never once has someone messaged me just to see if I am Casual or not. Even when a guild has asked me to join  they have never opened with are you casual or not. This seems to be a main issue just on the forums ( this is only place I even see this argument regularly). I belong to a guild that has a core hardcore, die hard group and a few semi people and the rest of us are more casual players. We Run dungeons have fun but can't devote those hours or time schedule needed to raid to the depths they want in our core group and not once have I been chastised because my real life comes first. I still have fun and enjoy the game and  even help run others in dungeons, craft, farm ..wow damn my casual tush ...How dare I have fun in a game and help out support our raiders.
 
Casual /semi/ Hardcore play how you want. Enjoy the pixel world created for your enjoyment. Why does it matter how you play a video game?  when you turn off that screen.... all those pixels go away . If my self worth is judged by my video game status , I would think about reevaluating my life . That is just me personally. I am not saying it is wrong for others to feel that way. I respect all types of players and the way they find enjoyment .. I mean this game was created for enjoyment purposes so enjoy it how you want....I plan to.	
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Chua introduce new term : Chuacore
 
/discuss
 
 
on topic : whole discussion is m00t.	
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Why is hardcore and casual based on time and not content done?  I could be 24/7 and do nothing but move shit around my house.  Someone else could be a "3 nighter" and be clearing raids and shit, or be PvP God.  So I'd be called "hardcore" and the "3 nighter" would be casual?
 
Though I have to say, from the tone of the post, I don't feel better being told "It's ok to be casual."  Feels like a BoSox fan being told by a Yankees fan "It's ok to be a fan of them."	
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My parents lived right next to the ocean when they grew up, so naturally, their parents went fishing every day to get food. This meant it was important for them to be able to tell what the ocean/water was like as quickly and accurate as possible, so they won't have to waste time with long, boring and confusing explanations every day. As a result, they had eight words describing the different states of the water. (completely still, slightly moving, lots of waves etc.) These days we don't need to know things that precise, so we have reduced the number of word from eight to three. (still, moving, don't bother.)
 
It makes a lot of sense that we as gamers would do the same, so using terms like casual, semi-casual, semi-hardcore and hardcore makes more sense than you might think. Gaming is a big deal these days, and adding more terms like that makes it easy to tell how much a person enjoys games, and in what form.	
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My parents lived right next to the ocean when they grew up, so naturally, their parents went fishing every day to get food. This meant it was important for them to be able to tell what the ocean/water was like as quickly and accurate as possible, so they won't have to waste time with long, boring and confusing explanations every day. As a result, they had eight words describing the different states of the water. (completely still, slightly moving, lots of waves etc.) These days we don't need to know things that precise, so we have reduced the number of word from eight to three. (still, moving, don't bother.)
 
It makes a lot of sense that we as gamers would do the same, so using terms like casual, semi-casual, semi-hardcore and hardcore makes more sense than you might think. Gaming is a big deal these days, and adding more terms like that makes it easy to tell how much a person enjoys games, and in what form.
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Stuff
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Yes it seems like most guilds try to slot "Hardcore" into their description. I've lost track of how many SEMI HARDCORE guilds I see recruiting in /z on my realm. The word has become pretty meaningless.
 
Even some that say hardcore and then just say "/w for invite" lol, what? 	
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			I've been looking for a business casual guild.	
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 hard-core   [hahrd-kawr, -kohr]
adjective
1.unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated 
 
 
 
Don't see any mentions of time limits in there.  I might be dedicated to my job, but I still go home at night.	
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Don't see any mentions of time limits in there.  I might be dedicated to my job, but I still go home at night.
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			I think the guild is saying, they are hardcore but they dont discriminate against casual players. Its possible to have two different crowds in one guild. You seem pretty upset about this lol	
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Everyone has their own opinion on what hardcore and casual mean. For me, the meanings are completely different from others.
 
 
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 hard-core   [hahrd-kawr, -kohr]
adjective
1.unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated 
 
 
 
Don't see any mentions of time limits in there.  I might be dedicated to my job, but I still go home at night.
 
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Casual hardcore is more of a
 
 
We raid only 2 nights a week and not 4-5..
 
But for those 2 nights we want everyone to be there who says they will (ofc unless r/l stuff happens give notice) and bring their A game and not slouching off.
 
 
 
for raiding...
Hardcore to me is people who raid 4-5 nights a week.'
Casual is more like 2-3
 
Casual has a limited time commitment compared to hardcore, but that doesn't mean that they wont complete the same amount of content in the 2 days as the hardcore guild does in 2 days..
 
 
Sadly i think some people mix up player skill level into casual/hardcore but its not true.	
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I've always LMAO'd the term "Hardcore" in a gaming enviroment. I giggle even thinking about it now.
 
If you want hardcore, join the Marine Corps. Anything else is a walk in the park.	
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			Why the obsession with labels - I never understood it.	
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I've always LMAO'd the term "Hardcore" in a gaming enviroment. I giggle even thinking about it now.
 
If you want hardcore, join the Marine Corps. Anything else is a walk in the park.
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Son, I have Carpal Tunnel from 5 day a week progression raiding that would make a Marine CRY!
 
I have seen friends, GOOD FRIENDS, die and we couldn't b-rez them because they were #10 in DPS and we needed to save that rez in case a tank or healer died.
 
Marines....PFAH!
 
Marines couldn't lace up my iLv572 Malkorok's Giant Stompers.
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			People running around calling themselves 'hardcore' when they're not Terry Funk need to be beaten into unconciousness with stale baguettes.	
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Why the obsession with labels - I never understood it.
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			Hardcores schedule their life around the game, whereas casuals schedule the game around their life imho.Some "casual" players (possibly even many) are ex-hardcores who burned out after end game went from being a hobby to a science project to a 2nd job to an obsession. No more guilt trips from avoiding gear grinds on multiple raid characters. No more farming before going to work then again before going to bed to support raids. No more high intensity wipe nights three or four nights a week with multiple six hour boss grinds on the weekends.Ex-hardcores who grow up to be casuals just wanna log in with friends and blow shit up. They still have skills and can easily hold their own in a fair fight. They excel in team environments but have zero tolerance for attitudes. Their perfectionist edge is dulled because they choose to sharpen real life wits instead of fantasy weapons. They bask in the heat of battle but have no desire to fight an entire war. They play to win - just not at all costs. They don't LMAO, but they do laugh their asses off. When in Rome, the Romans do as they do. And they don't always drink ... but when they do, they drink for effect.Stay thirsty my friends . . . :D	
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			I kind of feel my definition of a hardcore gamer is how much % of their free time they devote to games.	
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I've created a mining circle. Mining circles are pretty simple in Wildstar. You log in, you do a run in your circle and you go about your other game business. Thing is that mining circles could actually really be put down to hardcore or casual. A hardcore mining circle would consist of only elite plots with enough players to fill the exact amount of time to make it a profitable venture for everyone involved. So what'd wind up happening is math would be crunched and pretty soon (say 4-5 nodes are up every 30 minutes) you'd have every 30 minutes someone would start running the circle. Maximum potential achieved, maximum profitability reached. Hardcore. Casual, on the other hand is giving access to a bunch of people no matter the tier, no matter if they even have plots on their land. You just want to get people to come through and mine your nodes so you get profit. So I realized earlier something interesting happened. I was actually creating a very typical mining circle. Yes, tier 4 and elite only, but I only had maybe 10 mails today from people tapping my shiny new elite deposit. Did I feel a little bummed? Yeah. Why? Because my expectation of being hardcore wasn't lining up with other players ideas of how mining circles work. I figure a lot of people join circles and have the plots up and don't actually ever go mine for themselves because they are too lazy to care or are busy with other things, or maybe they're just not interested and want the passive income. Who knows? Fact is, I could create something really unique if I wanted to by making an elite-only group. Then the semantics unravel into the fact that it's actually okay just to have a TON of people in the mining circle and mine whatever's available whenever, so is being hardcore even efficient? Etc.
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			I'm Hardcore Casual. Play a heck of a lot, but don't do Dungeons, Attunements, or Raid.	
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Posted Today, 11:04 AM
 
Hardcores schedule their life around the game, whereas casuals schedule the game around their life imho.
 
Some "casual" players (possibly even many) are ex-hardcores who burned out after end game went from being a hobby to a science project to a 2nd job to an obsession. No more guilt trips from avoiding gear grinds on multiple raid characters. No more farming before going to work then again before going to bed to support raids. No more high intensity wipe nights three or four nights a week with multiple six hour boss grinds on the weekends.
 
Ex-hardcores who grow up to be casuals just wanna log in with friends and blow shit up. They still have skills and can easily hold their own in a fair fight. They excel in team environments but have zero tolerance for attitudes. Their perfectionist edge is dulled because they choose to sharpen real life wits instead of fantasy weapons. They bask in the heat of battle but have no desire to fight an entire war. They play to win - just not at all costs. They don't LMAO, but they do laugh their asses off. When in Rome, the Romans do as they do. And they don't always drink ... but when they do, they drink for effect.
 
Stay thirsty my friends . . . :D
 
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			Rage Against the Semantics	
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This is probably the most ridiculous topic I've ever seen discussed past one page, haha. I'm not saying the opinions aren't well thought-out— but the subject is just...
 
You guys know that you can't explicitly define a word like hardcore in the context of gaming, right? As much as you might want it to have a singular meaning and therefore become highly functional, that will never stick. The only thing you can really say is that hardcore demands more than casual and casual demands less than hardcore. It's kind of a worthless binary though.
 
People are going to define these words however the hell they want. The word is only suggestive.	
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Guys (and gals,) it's okay to be casual. Please do not insult us with your claims to be hardcore if you're not. You waste my time, you waste your time. In the end it just turns out to be a big waste of time.
 
Thanks o/
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			Do people above the age of 15 actually use the term "hard core" in terms of video games?	
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Do people above the age of 15 actually use the term "hard core" in terms of video games?
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Do people above the age of 15 actually use the term "hard core" in terms of video games?
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You mean good players?
 
edit: I consider myself to be a good player, but as I said in the OP I'm not HC any longer. I would probably refer to myself as a player with a fast learning curve, if anything, and would actually drop the pretenses of either hardcore or casual. Applying tags to everything just because it's what the masses do doesn't always work.
 
Take another game for example, League. In League there are bads. Bads are players who can't think or don't respond to plays. I call truly epic bad players "quality bads" because you can expect them to always do the wrong thing. I called good players "good" and exceptional players "great."
 
In that game the rate of play determines hardcore or casual, I think. I'm diamond rated solo queue, but I play solo queue only maybe once or twice a week now. I'm definitely not hardcore, but I'm not a bad player, either :P
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Chua introduce new term : Chuacore
 
/discuss
 
 
on topic : whole discussion is m00t.
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I'm Hardcore Casual. Play a heck of a lot, but don't do Dungeons, Attunements, or Raid.
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In my day, you were either 'Good' or 'Bad'.
 
Now its, you can login at specific times each day or you cannot. But neither mean good.	
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Chuacore parkour - Every leap is accented by punting a hamster.
 
[Edit:] ... for SCIENCE!
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