143378-add-a-proper-lfr-and-lfg-tool

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Wow, nobody has time for guilds?  That is an argument I have just...not heard someone make, ever.
 
I'd contest that dungeons are too hard, but I've only experienced up to mid-level content.  In those it's not that difficult provided you and your group pay attention to telegraphs.  Veteran dungeons and other assorted content are supposed to be difficult as it's max level content that, presumably, provides sufficient gear to allow players to start on raiding.  Risk has to be proportional to reward, yeah?  Quite frankly I don't think that nerfing content should be the go-to solution here...it might be better to provide information or restrictions in the grouping tool (you must have X ilvl gear to run this veteran dungeon, etc.) before just making the content easier.
 
LFR could work but...it's a bit awkward.  LFR necessitates that the raid content be dumbed down significantly because the bulk of the people involved in content of that nature are either unable or unwilling to perform to the standards necessary for standard raid content, so everything needs to not hit as hard and be significantly more forgiving.  I'm no expert on game design, though, so it's not like I'm bursting at the seams with alternatives.	
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these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guild to come online or just to do dailys. 	
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So what do your suggestions have to do with lfr and lfg?  Raids are not impossible for pugs, been pugging GA for a long time now.  Dungeons can be tough but that is due to people's inexperience and/or lack of proper gear and runes.  There are a few dungeons bosses that are over tuned a bit last boss in skullcano and first boss in proto acadamy (vet versions).  I generally do not like the lfr tool as it is usually tuned to loot pinata status and does not make people even perform mechanics.  it really devolved in some games, others have made it work but the content in those games are generally pretty easy or at least easier than wildstar.  
 
i would much rather them spend time and resources on new content and not rehashing old stuff to make it easier.  if you have a hard time finding time to raid and do dungeons you should probably stick to the solo content as it was designed to take much shorter time and provide some equivalent rewards to raiding and dungeons.  not bis stuff but decent gear if you cant complete or get into raids or dungeons.  do not forget about world bosses either.
 
get in a better guild.  you say you wait for them to come online, so it sounds like you have a low number of people.  there are always people on in my guild running things.
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Foul Wind	
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these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guild to come online or just to do dailys. 
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Stopped reading at "no one has time for guilds."
 
What?	
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Do you also ask your country to let you participate in the Olympics because...
No one has time for training all their life?
 
Fact:
You cannot do everything just because you want to.
 
Work your ass off to make it happen or deal with it.
Finding a guild that fit your schedule to be able to raid is less work than learning how to make good sandwiches.
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Fluffy McNuggets	
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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			Or alternatively, a great guild-finder tool to help players better enjoy every aspect of the game with new friends.  As an MMO should be.   :)	
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			in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 	
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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*looks around*
 
*checks header at the top of page*
 
Nope. This ain't WoW.
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dude we pugged full clears GA way before the F2P with the small community we had at that moment , now with the bigger playerbase we will see more pugs, just give them time to adjust to game mechanics and get gear enough to pug and you will see. also start at shiphands then adventures then dungeons you will see an improve in yourself and your pugs.We had the same problem but since august 2014 until f2p i didnt saw anyone complaining about pugging vet dungeons, so its just a matter of time to people to learn.
 
 
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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Ugh. LFR.
It's bad enough they introduced an 85% guild kill achievement, it's like one of those you tried stickers.
They should implement immortal achievements for 85% party survival too! :/
 
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Niliana Bloodbound	
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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Or alternatively, a great guild-finder tool to help players better enjoy every aspect of the game with new friends.  As an MMO should be.   :)
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these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guild to come online or just to do dailys. 
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---> 2016 is coming, no one will have time to eat. So please add food order Carbine !
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>LFR
 
This how you spot an WoW player. :P
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by BakuDM	
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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The game isn't hard, I have proof. Major proof.Super major proof..
 
 
Here it comes.
 
The Proof.
 
 
 
IMMORTAL GLOOMCLAW.... don't ask.. it happened... we were pleasantly surprised ourselves.	
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The game isn't hard, I have proof. Major proof.Super major proof..
 
 
Here it comes.
 
The Proof.
 
 
 
IMMORTAL GLOOMCLAW.... don't ask.. it happened... we were pleasantly surprised ourselves.
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Yeah, I like those kind of Opinions.
 
"I can't do it! It must be broken or unbalanced! NERF, NERF, NERF! *chanting*"
 
This is what made Diablo 3 and WoW so boring and faceroll.	
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That is a ton of harsh criticism for someone that is just sharing their opinion. Funny how it's always the same three or four people that chime in to crush someone that is asking for something a little different than what they believe. Funny how it's always people that have been around the game for a long time.
 
I like the raid content where it is, I'm still surprised they haven't offered a slightly reduced version of it for casual though. But hey Wildstar Hardcore until it dies.
 
One good thing I can say is the F2P transition has brought a ton of people back to the game, and a lot of new players. Now we just have to find a way to keep them here. Mercilessly crushing them on the forums for sharing a point of view you don't agree with might not be the way to do it.
 
oh well, such is the internet.	
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2. Not completely, I believe there are a couple successful PuG raids on the Exile side of Entity.
 
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That is a ton of harsh criticism for someone that is just sharing their opinion. Funny how it's always the same three or four people that chime in to crush someone that is asking for something a little different than what they believe. Funny how it's always people that have been around the game for a long time.
 
I like the raid content where it is, I'm still surprised they haven't offered a slightly reduced version of it for casual though. But hey Wildstar Hardcore until it dies.
 
One good thing I can say is the F2P transition has brought a ton of people back to the game, and a lot of new players. Now we just have to find a way to keep them here. Mercilessly crushing them on the forums for sharing a point of view you don't agree with might not be the way to do it.
 
oh well, such is the internet.
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There are a few dungeons bosses that are over tuned a bit last boss in skullcano
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*looks around*
 
*checks header at the top of page*
 
Nope. This ain't WoW.
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The marauder raid that is coming out next year is suppose to be the casual raid.. I'm waiting for my new costume pieces o.o
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That is a ton of harsh criticism for someone that is just sharing their opinion. Funny how it's always the same three or four people that chime in to crush someone that is asking for something a little different than what they believe. Funny how it's always people that have been around the game for a long time.
 
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That is a ton of harsh criticism for someone that is just sharing their opinion. Funny how it's always the same three or four people that chime in to crush someone that is asking for something a little different than what they believe. Funny how it's always people that have been around the game for a long time.
 
I like the raid content where it is, I'm still surprised they haven't offered a slightly reduced version of it for casual though. But hey Wildstar Hardcore until it dies.
 
One good thing I can say is the F2P transition has brought a ton of people back to the game, and a lot of new players. Now we just have to find a way to keep them here. Mercilessly crushing them on the forums for sharing a point of view you don't agree with might not be the way to do it.
 
oh well, such is the internet.
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Nope.  It isn't WoW but love when you and the defenders bring up WoW in many of your posts like recently for example about the "re-launch issues here".  I guess only when it meets your needs you can bring up WoW but when someone else does about WoW to show its positives then you say things like this.
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these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guild to come online or just to do dailys. 
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I think guilds are necessary for a lot of reasons, but in a lot of games they have minimized the overall use of guilds for running content below raid level. Final fantasy, Rift, WOW (I guess, never played it), SWTOR.
 
Personally I like guilds to enjoy a group of like-minded individuals that share a common purpose. Plus where else am I going to hear all those dirty jokes!
 
This game has always struggled with the difficulty/easy to group mindset. Lot's of us love the challenge lots of others don't. Where I think they missed the mark is with the GF is that people expect to be able to queue with a certain amount of gear and a have a reasonable chance at success. I think it would be very hard for 5 new players in less than dungeon gear and no voice chat to beat a lot of the encounters. It's set up to fail. Now if you get lucky and have a tank or healer and one dps coming in with GA or above gear the entire outlook changes, as long as they can stay alive and toss a few interrupts you are golden.
 
It's just a weird dynamic, F2P games normally cater to some kind of easier GF experience where you can start right away and have a pretty good chance of success. Rift does that well, SWTOR to a lesser extent. The thing Rift does well is it eliminates you from queuing for harder content until you reach a certain gear level. They also make it extremely easy to earn the gear that gets you there while keeping raid gear or the newest gear harder to obtain.
 
I just feel like the crowd coming in from F2P is expecting something else in a gaming experience, and the last thing I want is to see us where we were in May. With a dying game and a dying studio. This game is to fun to die, it make the combat in other games seem lackluster at best.
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by bbates024	
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I solo redmoon as a warrior tank so there is no "overtuned" here ... maybe undertuned if anything
 
however it takes about 10 minutes so there is no way to make the timer solo :(
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Dont have time for a guild? You mean the foundation of what made MMOs, well, MMOs?
 
Want a more casual experience and still be able to raid? Join a circle (although you do still have to get to know people thankfully)!
 
Things NOT to expect from Wildstar:
 
- Remaining out of voice chat during raids
- Face mashing your keyboard and getting phat lootz
- Ignoring mechanics because you out gear the content
- Ignoring others	
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I just feel like the crowd coming in from F2P is expecting something else in a gaming experience, and the last thing I want is to see us where we were in May. With a dying game and a dying studio.
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I fully agree, Bates. I really, honestly do. I love WildStar and the homies at Carbine are like friends at this point.
 
Can you PUG Vet content here? Again, yes, you can. It is possible. Can you PUG Vet content with four other complete newbies with no voice comms, no runed gear, one interrupt each (if that) and with half the group still leveling greens? No. You can not. Nor should you, ever.
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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Stopped reading at "no one has time for guilds."
 
What?
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Yeah and we're down 5 mil subs and the game is a shell of what it once was BECAUSE there is no reason to be social at all in the game.
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			Not a Cubs fan.....and still want them to win!	
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3. in 2015 ...
4. in 2015...
5. in 2015 ...
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 i dont think thats true, they said it will come after DS in progression, still no word on if its marauder or not (hoping yes, zombie mordechai ftw, skullcano was merely a setback)
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So true. My brother and sister-in-law were long-time WoW players. They had a guild, ran raids, learned mechanics and had fun together.
 
Then LFR became the norm. Guildies vanished. Everyone queued up alone. Guild eventually was just the two of them and a bank filled with crap.
 
Where did everyone go?
 
After they AFK'd their way through the "hardest" content around, everyone left. Had no personal connections to the game, had all the best stuff so no need to log-in.
 
Now even they have quit playing. When I asked why, the answer was "what's the point? I just log in and an hour later the raid is over and everyone gets a reward."
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So true. My brother and sister-in-law were long-time WoW players. They had a guild, ran raids, learned mechanics and had fun together.
 
Then LFR became the norm. Guildies vanished. Everyone queued up alone. Guild eventually was just the two of them and a bank filled with crap.
 
Where did everyone go?
 
After they AFK'd their way through the "hardest" content around, everyone left. Had no personal connections to the game, had all the best stuff so no need to log-in.
 
Now even they have quit playing. When I asked why, the answer was "what's the point? I just log in and an hour later the raid is over and everyone gets a reward."
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So true. My brother and sister-in-law were long-time WoW players. They had a guild, ran raids, learned mechanics and had fun together.
 
Then LFR became the norm. Guildies vanished. Everyone queued up alone. Guild eventually was just the two of them and a bank filled with crap.
 
Where did everyone go?
 
After they AFK'd their way through the "hardest" content around, everyone left. Had no personal connections to the game, had all the best stuff so no need to log-in.
 
Now even they have quit playing. When I asked why, the answer was "what's the point? I just log in and an hour later the raid is over and everyone gets a reward."
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in 2015 
in 2015
in 2015 
in 2015 
in 2015
 
In 2015 people want their damn hover board, Jaws 19, and the Cubs to win the World Series.
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in 2015 
in 2015
in 2015 
in 2015 
in 2015
 
In 2015 people want their damn hover board, Jaws 19, and the Cubs to win the World Series.
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LESSGO CUBBIES!.. I mean Wildstar! 
 
Also no LFR please! LFR brings toxicity. 
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{| class="blockquote"
LESSGO CUBBIES!.. I mean Wildstar! 
 
Also no LFR please! LFR brings toxicity. 
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not really. toxicity brings to extrem tuned dungeons and eltitst vets kicking noobs without giving them the chance to learn encounters. its what happens right now nine wildstar and it will drive people away. the only thing to save this game is make casual raiding/dungeoning for fresh 50's that is pug able and gives good enough rewards to be worth it!
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I will give you 1 points just because there isn't that much content in the internet about Boss Fights and something, otherwise you could just watch it and learn how the Boss Fight works.
 
The thing is, WoW's LFR is faceroll af, we tested it in many ways, you can finish any raid with just 1 heal, people do LFR and think that doing Normal Raid or Heroic Hard is the same mechanic and ruins everything.
 
And it's funny because there is this thread: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/143142-dont-make-the-game-easier/
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by BakuDM	
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not really. toxicity brings to extrem tuned dungeons and eltitst vets kicking noobs without giving them the chance to learn encounters. its what happens right now nine wildstar and it will drive people away. the only thing to save this game is make casual raiding/dungeoning for fresh 50's that is pug able and gives good enough rewards to be worth it!
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			Sadly, I agree that many people are seeing MMOs that way nowadays... But these people and you OP, just don't get it. There is no point in making the game too casual, because it's just as bad. Look at WoW. Yes, let's look at it. You think it's such a success with that casualism? It imploded into 5 mill (or even less now) from 10 mill subscribers since WoD came out. People leave the game in droves BECAUSE IT'S TOO CASUAL and boring. They (you) got what they wanted, and now they are getting bored and leave the game... Yeah, so much better. LFG and LFR totally destroyed MMOs... But then again, maybe the same would have happened without these because of the difficulty... We can't really tell.	
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not really. toxicity brings to extrem tuned dungeons and eltitst vets kicking noobs without giving them the chance to learn encounters. its what happens right now nine wildstar and it will drive people away. the only thing to save this game is make casual raiding/dungeoning for fresh 50's that is pug able and gives good enough rewards to be worth it!
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not really. toxicity brings to extrem tuned dungeons and eltitst vets kicking noobs without giving them the chance to learn encounters. its what happens right now nine wildstar and it will drive people away. the only thing to save this game is make casual raiding/dungeoning for fresh 50's that is pug able and gives good enough rewards to be worth it!
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A question for the OP. Did you not do any research before you came to Wildstar?
 
The fact that this game is challenging is not exactly a big secret of the internet.  I raided hardcore in WoW Vanilla-Cata and part of MoP, then age and old injuries caught up to me and I now no longer am able to due to arthritis. So in WoW I became about as big a LFR hero as there is. I came to wildstar KNOWING I would never do veteran stuff. I would NEVER ask for the veteran stuff to be simplified to the point I can do it. In short I knew what I was signing up for.
 
WIldstar is not WoW and should NOT be made into WoW.	
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not really. toxicity brings to extrem tuned dungeons and eltitst vets kicking noobs without giving them the chance to learn encounters. its what happens right now nine wildstar and it will drive people away. the only thing to save this game is make casual raiding/dungeoning for fresh 50's that is pug able and gives good enough rewards to be worth it!
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Mhm... yup....  I think I figured out the problem here.
 
Guild raiding obviously sucks so bad that if LFR is put into the game then no one will ever want to guild raid again.  I think it's safe to say that there is absolutely no one in any game that has an LFR that is still interested in putting a raiding guild together, ever. 
 
Because we all know that nobody in an MMO actually plays an MMO because they want to be social ever, and if LFR exists people just won't have an excuse to talk to each other anymore.
 
Oh, yeah, and people who aren't willing to neglect their real life responsibilities and re-arrange their schedules to accommodate the needs of faceless strangers on the internet are just "lazy" and "entitled" no matter what their personal real-world routine is like.  Can't forget that argument, it's a classic.	
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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wow also has a very accesible and pugable NORMAL mode next to the LFR difficulty. It even has a quite accesible HEROIC mode aswell. Wildstar seems to only have mythic. Last time i checked its about 1% of the player base whos raiding Mythic but about 99% who are doing LFR. Go figure what this means for wildstars max lvl population. You eitehr implement really watered down easy content for us filthy casuals or we will just leave for anotehr game again after the leveling phase is done and we have nothing to do ingame.
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I will give you 1 points just because there isn't that much content in the internet about Boss Fights and something, otherwise you could just watch it and learn how the Boss Fight works.
 
The thing is, WoW's LFR is faceroll af, we tested it in many ways, you can finish any raid with just 1 heal, people do LFR and think that doing Normal Raid or Heroic Hard is the same mechanic and ruins everything.
 
And it's funny because there is this thread: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/143142-dont-make-the-game-easier/
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Regular versions of Dungeons in WildStar, while harder than 'normal' mode WoW dungeons...are not Mythic.
 
Expeditions -> Adventures -> Dungeons -> Veteran Dungeons/Adventures -> Raids... it's not hit 50, start raiding in the next 5 minutes.
 
edit:  Also, please provide sources for 1%/99% claim, I very much doubt 100% of WoW's playerbase is raiding.
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NOBODY WANTS HARDCORE RAIDS!
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Enigma would like a word with you. ;)
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As you can see LFR is extremely popular and nobody is interested teh slightest in MYTHIC: Same will appyl to wildstar. NOBODY WANTS HARDCORE RAIDS!
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Difficult content, is not the same as 'not casual friendly'.
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			difficult content is exactely NOT CASUAL FRIENDLY. thats why LFR WORKS and all other raid models are completely niche :) just ahve alook at the stats again	
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here some stats. yes 100% is to muchn.. according too mmochampion its 70% of wow playerbase participated in LFR. only 2% participate in mythic.
 
Roughly 70% of players participate in LFR, with 50% completing it. 40% tried Flex, with under 20% finishing it. Normal was between 25-13%, and Heroic was 10-1%. Note that Siege lasted longer than any other raid tier, so it's participation is significantly higher than others. If you look at WoWprogress numbers, at most 10% of players have downed Kargath on Heroic (30604 x 30 = 918,120, slightly under 10% of the 10 million subs). Mythic is easier to pin down, being on a fixed raid size: 8815 x 20 = 176,300 Mythic raiders, which is under 2% of the playerbase.
 
As you can see LFR is extremely popular and nobody is interested teh slightest in MYTHIC: Same will appyl to wildstar. NOBODY WANTS HARDCORE RAIDS!
 
Here is anotehr report from mmochampion:
 
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3984-armory-stats-siege-of-orgrimmar-progression-blue-tweets-dlc-439
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He is not listening. He's made up his mind. He isn't really asking for a LFR tool, he's asking for mega-easy, anyone-can-ding-50-and-win Raids. Read his last few posts. He makes it abundantly clear that since he can't just queue up and raid, then the system is flawed, the game is doomed and rest of us are idiots for not agreeing with his need for non-challenging content.
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in wow it is no longer necessary to be in a guild except for mythic content. thus 99% of the people in wow dont need to guild up and submit to a guilds schedule on when to do raiding/dungeons. 
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So, go do LFR? Why does one game have to be the same as another? I dont want to play WoW. So I dont. It sounds like you want to play WoW so go play it. If you didnt notice this is Wildstar. They are different games. WAY WAY more than 2% of people raid in this game. More than 2% raided before they made the Attunement facroll.
 
I am not sure what the point of your link or comment was. If you like that model and that system and that game so much why are you here telling us that this isnt WoW. I, for one, know that. That's why I am here.
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Looked at WoW's numbers lately?
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this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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its still in the millions which is fantastic considering its going strong over a decade.
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Easier content for people who want it is great.  LFR is awful.  I've done it.  I'm one of those 70%.  It was awful.  Flex raids were fine.  Normal mode raids were fine.  LFR was awful.  Stats will tell you what people do, not how much they enjoy it.
 
And the worst thing about it, in WoW, is that it's there in place of the good casual PvE content that should be there - more dungeons, scenarios, small group story content.  I'd like to see more of that in WildStar rather than LFR.	
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difficult content is exactely NOT CASUAL FRIENDLY. thats why LFR WORKS and all other raid models are completely niche :) just ahve alook at the stats again
----
			One things that separates WildStar from other ThemeParks is that it is challenging. There's a bunch of themepark mmos that have easy raids. Also honestly besides Vet Dungeons and Raids, everything else in this game is not that challenging. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
and no i dont need lfr.. but i would be happy with a pugable normal mode where i can relax after a day of work and kill some bosses then log out again. i dont have time for guild, i dont want to have any responsiblity in this game. i want to be able to log in/out as i please. do a quick raid and *cupcake*off :) this is extremely possible in wow right now (and was for teh last couple expansions).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Why?  Why do you think that casual players can't do difficult content?  Do you think casual players are bad?  I'm not trying to be mean/smart-alecky.. I'm legitimately curious why you think casual players can't do difficult content.  I'm casual, and I enjoy difficult content...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
its to big of a hassle and takes to much time! as soon as mechanics get to complicated and you have to rehearse interrupt rotations and dodge choreographies it takes longer than the average person is willing to invest time into a game. if i play for 1hour a day and a ocuple hours on the weekend i dont want to spend this hour wiping because some moron in my raid keeps *cupcake*ign up his inetrrupt rotation.
 
what teh casual wants is log in.. do a quick raid or a couple dungeons get his loot then log out! its about pleasure and having a quick fix (this is really important!)  its not about challange at all tbh.
 
thats why a successfull game needs to implement content  with scalable difficulty for every peer group.
----
	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
wildstars problem is that it could not retain a lucrative player base to pay the bills. its because the game is not designed to appel to most of the people. thats why its f2p now. maybe you dont understand just because somethign is now free to play doesnt make it more appealing long term. people will lvl up their char to 50 tehn find out its a grind and to hard and leave again. what people want is casual content, nos trings attached gameplay.
 
if this game would be so popular because the raids are so damn good and teh endgame so dope. it could have retained a big enough and lucrative playerbase in teh first place.
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{| class="blockquote"
Raiding, even when puggable (which our raids are, by the way), is the end game content.  It is supposed to be difficult.
----
			
Stop trying to turn Wildstar into WoW, if you like WoW, go play it.
 
If Carbine wanted to make Wildstar like WoW, they wouldn't have left Blizzard in the first place.
They left because they wanted to make their own game, not WoW-Clone.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
no its not! its supposed to be fun:)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
no its not! its supposed to be fun:)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
no its not! its supposed to be fun:)
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{| class="blockquote"
You are the reason this generations gaming has declined so badly. Pat yourself on the back for that. Sad that MMOs will die off because of children that want everything handed to them without working a day in their life. Is your name Obama?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
what teh casual wants is log in.. do a quick raid or a couple dungeons get his loot then log out! its about pleasure and having a quick fix (this is really important!)  its not about challange at all tbh.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Or a ff14 player, or a SWTOR player, or a Rift player.
 
We don't need those other players though; I mean the nerve of them, bringing their custom here and possibly increasing WildStar's profits so Carbine can make the game better for everyone.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
>LFR
 
This how you spot an WoW player. :P
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{| class="blockquote"
Or a ff14 player, or a SWTOR player, or a Rift player.
 
We don't need those other players though; I mean the nerve of them, bringing their custom here and increasing WildStar's profits so Carbine can make the game better for everyone.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You are the reason this generations gaming has declined so badly. Pat yourself on the back for that. Sad that MMOs will die off because of children that want everything handed to them without working a day in their life. Is your name Obama?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i live in switzerland where we actually have a real democracy so i dont really care bout obama or any otehr of your exuses for a president you have over tehre:)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i live in switzerland where we actually have a real democracy so i dont really care bout obama or any otehr of your exuses for a president you have over tehre:)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i live in switzerland where we actually have a real democracy so i dont really care bout obama or any otehr of your exuses for a president you have over tehre:)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
ill just get away from this dude posts. all are about he cant learn to play the game and want it dumbed down
----
			
From your posts you just want things handed to you.
 
No.
 
Go away.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
SWTOR isn't even good.
 
People who play FFXIV never leave it.
And FFXIV you MUST complete the old content before jumping in the new content, so you actually learn how to play the game before doing any difficult content.
 
RIFT is TRION shit. :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
----
			
Today I relogged to fix an addon for healing but I just got moved outside the dungeon without any chance to get back.
 
I was double punished for addons failing AND got kicked, ...the Gfinder seriously has to be improved ...ALOT.	
----
			
I'm a casual player, I have no problem learning how to do a dungeon or a raid I had to do the same in WOW for years.
I did LFR once.. never again it was pointless and no fun at all it's a spam-fest watch tv on the side gaming.
 
As for the whole players don't play in guilds... i guess that's why majority of the players i see in the major capitals on WOW have Guild names over their heads?? or perhaps i am mistaken?
 
I think what this game does need however and even if Carbine have to copy Blizzard, is a Dungeon Journal. It can be very helpful for a quick read of boss fights and other info.
 
There are casual world bosses for the LFR crowd to do in Wildstar as i assume the LFR crew will want as small a challenge as possible so as we not take away their TV time while playing. 	
----
			
"I don´t have time."
 
- to read a class guide
- to read patch notes
- to read/watch a boss video
- to bla bla put in anything that takes 5-15 minutes away from you shiny daytime
 
Everytime I hear that in an MMO - no matter if it is "Internet-tanks", "Classic-MMORPGs" or any stuff you can imagine that even if you play occasionally takes away plenty of hours -
 
I
wonder
myself
 
why the heck you have time to bang your head for hours against one single Raidboss, one single Dungeonboss, doing toplevelgrinds, farmgrinds, daily-quest-grinds etc. for little to no benefit?
 
Please be kind to me or at least give me a break and say something that at least makes more sense like:
 
"I don´t care."
"I don´t give a *cupcake*."
"I have never learned to read a manual before getting startet with stuff in my whole life."
"My IKEA cupboard "HÖGGAR" looks like modern art... after 8 hours of work."
"I tried to change timezones on my (old) carradio didn´t succeed but at least I can listen to folk music from Aserbaijan, because I refuse to read ... guess what ... manuals."	
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{| class="blockquote"
Today I relogged to fix an addon for healing but I just got moved outside the dungeon without any chance to get back.
 
I was double punished for addons failing AND got kicked, ...the Gfinder seriously has to be improved ...ALOT.
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I do not vote for lfr. Please never ever ever ever ever ever ever NEVER ever add lfr. This is not wow. I love this game because of the way it differs from wow. 
 
If you are too casual to learn how to raid and do it in the times that you can be online then raiding is NOT for you. and that's ok. It's not for everyone. Don't try to shove a square peg in a round hole. It does not work.	
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If you don't like to PVP, then don't queue up for the Battlegrounds.  If you don't like LFR, then don't queue up for LFR.  This isn't exactly rocket science...
 
It boggles my mind that people are so worried about LFR being included.  Just because it's there, it does not mean that you HAVE to do it.  That's kind of the whole point to having options when it comes to the things you want to do or don't want to do.
 
You know what I think?  If you guys acknowledge that fact, it will be much harder for you to say "I don't like it, so you can't have it."
 
Well, either that, or the joke I cracked earlier about "raids sucking so bad" that no one will want to do them anymore if LFR is put into the game, is actually true... hmmm...
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Srfrogg23	
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{| class="blockquote"
this is why this game will fail. it does not offer casual play! carbine didn't learn that this is why the game failed in the first place. make the game casual friendly allready
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final fantasy xi has a better system yo just get thrown in a list and a flag on your head.  I would just stand there in the level places or in town and get invited.   Some times I would run around in circles.
 
and i know it works with out me having to say anything at all since I was invited by people who did not speak english.
 
and in everquest 2 nobody used it making it useless.  but that was the fault of people.
 
 
 
 
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Cubical	
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LFR makes people believe they are a quality player, that needs little to no improvement, when they are not. It cripples the player base into thinking everything you get comes easy. It makes people lose the desire to play exceptionally well to be able to see the best content and get the best rewards. LFR should go die in a fire. 
 
If it were up to me and I were forced to make lfr's I would make it drop 0 gear and only drop costumes. Of clown clothes. Because, well, if you love lfr then you're a clown. With a giant red honking nose. 	
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Let me quote the following:
 
This is what happened to WoW. They tried to cater the game to appeal a much wider audience, and now the long term consequences are worst than they thought. If Wildstar follows the road of super-dumped down content like Blizzard did, they will lose more than they gain. 
 
Also lets make some things clear. Casual =/= Lazy. There are a lot of casual players that like the hard content Wildstar delivers. If you want to faceroll dngs and raid while clicking one button, then go back to WoW. WoW offer content for lazy but not casual players. 
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by KoRnStyleZ	
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{| class="blockquote"
these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
2. raids are impossible for pugs
----
			
Every mistake Blizzard made, Carbine should avoid.
 
To begin with Flying Mounts, but this is a point we already discussed.	
----
			No thanks, I came here to get away from the cancer that is LFR in WoW.	
----
			
Excellent post Kichwas.  WoW has no non-raid content because everyone can raid. Hit max level, join w/e raid, kill the last boss, and now you're done.
 
I love that in WS I still have a goal to work twords.  While I have personally run GA a few times (2 times I was carried HARD.  I was just a little buff warrior.) I still have a goal to work for.  Get reps up, get amp/AP points, up my ilvl etc.  Soon one day I can get into DS hopefully.  Having something to work twords is so vital for playing an MMO.  Once you hit the end, whats the point?  What are you going to do afterwards?
 
Actually working for something feels way better than having it handed to you instantly.
 
There's a big reason there are hardly anyone raiding normal+ in WoW.  Everyone sees it in lfr, says "whats the point to do this againa harder" and they stop.  Same thing would happen here.  Very very very few people will rise to the challenge just because it's hard.	
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{| class="blockquote"
these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guildWhat to come online or just to do dailys. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As you can see LFR is extremely popular and nobody is interested teh slightest in MYTHIC: Same will appyl to wildstar. NOBODY WANTS HARDCORE RAIDS!
----
			Gotta say, so far I'm pretty content with the content finder ;)	
----
			
SMH, Does anyone remember when RPG used to be part of the MMO experience and there was this long QUEST you would do that took a long time (Usually not done in a few minutes) and at the end there was an awesome boss or dungeon you had to go through which probably had some sort of reward...maybe? Ahh, the good times, guess I'm just old! XD
 
Some of us just like it difficult is what I'm saying :P
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by Natine	
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I gotta say, LFR killed my guild and my interest in WoW years ago.  Nobody wanted to do the regular or hardmode raids when you could LFR faceroll and still get almost as good gear, complete with set bonuses.  Nobody socialized anymore because there was no need to.  They killed core concept of MMOs: Social interaction and teamwork.
 
Now, there should, of course, be SOME content for casual players, but according to a lot of self-proclaimed casuals, there already is.  I don't see a problem in raids being something you need to gear, plan, cooperate with others and prepare for and not be able to simply waltz into right away and bash the loot piñatas then call it a day.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I gotta say, LFR killed my guild and my interest in WoW years ago.  Nobody wanted to do the regular or hardmode raids when you could LFR faceroll and still get almost as good gear, complete with set bonuses.  Nobody socialized anymore because there was no need to.  They killed core concept of MMOs: Social interaction and teamwork.
 
Now, there should, of course, be SOME content for casual players, but according to a lot of self-proclaimed casuals, there already is.  I don't see a problem in raids being something you need to gear, plan, cooperate with others and prepare for and not be able to simply waltz into right away and bash the loot piñatas then call it a day.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
looking at wow stats show that 70% of players do lfr but only 2% do mythic. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
thats why this game fails and is f2p now. casual want lfr! nobody wants to socialize and learn tactics. looking at wow stats show that 70% of players do lfr but only 2% do mythic. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
99.9999999% Troll...Carbine, lock this thread and may ban his account for a couple of days!!!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
casual want lfr!
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{| class="blockquote"
Today I relogged to fix an addon for healing but I just got moved outside the dungeon without any chance to get back.
 
I was double punished for addons failing AND got kicked, ...the Gfinder seriously has to be improved ...ALOT.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't think that has ever changed, the hardcore percentage has always been utterly tiny. (hence why blizzard decided to stop making tiers of raid content that only ~0.5% of the players would reach, like Naxx) The only difference now is that the 70% of players are actually doing something instead of getting bored and playing different games.
----
			 Did someone say LFR...men, women time to grab the torches and pitchforks there's a monster among us.	
----
			They could just make an x89 LFR because that would be about how far an lfr group would get... :D	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They could just make an x89 LFR because that would be about how far an lfr group would get... :D
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
thats why this game fails and is f2p now. casual want lfr! nobody wants to socialize and learn tactics.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
thats why this game fails and is f2p now. casual want lfr! nobody wants to socialize and learn tactics. looking at wow stats show that 70% of players do lfr but only 2% do mythic. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
thats why this game fails and is f2p now. casual want lfr! nobody wants to socialize and learn tactics. looking at wow stats show that 70% of players do lfr but only 2% do mythic. 
----
			
I don't mind touching on the LFD tool if necessary. I'd rather see them implement a premade group finder like WoW. That was one of the few good additions in WoD. 
 
Now LFR. We've had this talk, and TimeTravel has stated it's something to consider in the future. I've spoken my mind about it before, and I'm 100% against it, but I still think the discussions hold some value anyways. To me, it all depends on the implementation and execution. 
 
I think WoW's LFR is the most degenerate thing to ever exist. One thing is that it kills any aspiration players could have. I didn't start raiding because someone talked me into it or anything. I just saw some decked out players in Orgrimmar and thought to myself, "shit, I need to have that guy. I wanna look that cool. I want to personally face big enemies such as Nefarian, Onyxia, Lich King etc." It's all based on aspiration. I aspired to see the content, I aspired to get that gear and I aspired to become a better player. Now LFR completely eliminates one of those points. Aspiration to see the actual content. 
 
Why would I care about killing Archimonde on Mythic if I can do it on LFR? I don't really give a shite if I'm thrown into the Twisting Nether during the last phase, killing Archimonde on LFR is the same as Mythic, except harder. Why would anyone do something which is literally 500 times harder, for the same result? 
The only reason I commit to Mythic is because it's hell of an adrenaline rush when you finally down the boss, and cheer with your guild. 
When people look at participation levels and kills to see the effect of raids, I always kind of shrug and think about the new players who otherwise could've been inspired to ATTEMPT the content. 
 
What about gear? WoW actually kind of fixed it with WoD, but it was too late. They had already opened Pandora's box and let the evil out. With Cata and MoP, they were simply given recolored tier gear. With WoD, they replaced it with shitty looking gear. This meant that a chunk of the LFR playerbase couldn't be arsed. The rewards weren't worth the effort, although let's be real, there's no effort put into LFR, at least in WoW. It's a lot easier to distinguish a Mythic player from a LFR player now'a'days, but I wouldn't be surprised if Blizz changes that with Legion with the amount of people complaining. 
 
Aspiration to become a better player isn't mutually exclusive to raiding, but sometimes the want to do content pushes the player to make a decision of getting better. It isn't a bad thing to be a bad player, but it shouldn't be encouraged. A bad player in vet dungeons for example, provides a bad player experience for the entire group. Overall better experience within the game. 
 
And that's only the aspiration part of it. As I mentioned earlier, releasing LFR is basically opening Pandora's box. You have to be certain you want this for your game. You have to execute it perfectly on first implementation, because the community will not let go of it. You devs have said it yourself. Players will go through the path of least resistance for most reward. LFR completely skews this, because the ultimate reward is actually seeing the content. Or so it's supposed to be. 
 
It also removes the necessity for a server community. Less need for pugged raids. Less reason to run the actual difficult raids. It goes on. 
 
And how would you implement LFR in Wildstar specifically? Would you have X-89 throw bombs on players and only let it do damage to them? What about big bomb? Minor damage to entire raid? Knockback reduced? Actually, I could probably see X-89 as an alright LFR boss to be fair, but the whole bomb thing which is his main mechanic, would have to be effectively removed, and therefore the point of the fight is gone. 
 
Now Kuralak. Hide and seek would have to be nerfed heavily. Walls would have to do non-lethal damage. Eggs mechanic would probably not debuff the players etc. Convergence would prolly be even worse. Datascape is almost LFR impossible in my eyes. 
 
It's hard to implement in Wildstar because this game has heavy focus on actual telegraphs and how players deal with them. Truthfully, this game has little to do with the numbers themselves. WoW on the other hand is 100% about numbers. The closest to a WOW number based fight I've seen would be 40 man Life/Fire(pre-nerf-nerf. Somewhere around the time Enigma killed it or earlier) due to the heavy DPS requirement and heal requirement. 
 
Man, I could go on. I don't think it's a good idea, but I'm not one to decide that at all. If TT and the rest of his team decides that the participation levels for raids are too low, then so be it. I think Datascape has pretty atrocious participation levels, whereas GA is at a very acceptable level. 
 
I also don't think the WIldstar raids are that hardcore in my personal opinion. Wind back a year ago, and I was actually surprised at how relaxed GA was. Was perfectly tuned in my opinion, whereas Datascape 40 was a logistical nightmare. Is there a need for LFR, or is there a need to push players into raids?
 
Edit: Didnt notice how big a wall I had made. This is my passionate response from a current WOW player. Don't make the same mistakes as WoW has done in recent time. TLDR; I personally disagree and think there are A LOT of stuff to think about before even thinking about LFR. But could it be implemented a better way than WoW? I don't see why not, but I'd rather stick with 1 size and 1 difficulty. Make some casual raids after Redmoon Marauders. We need a Karazhan of Wildstar.
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by Razhork	
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			So.. Yasfan is a solo player wanting an mmo to be solo focused. I get it now. Now its clear why Yasfan is heavily critical of Wildstar. Because its a game that is actually focused on group based end game content. This is why yasfan is always going to be liking any criciticism of wildstar. Like I said before.. There are other games with singe player focused content.  The M in MMO means Multiplayer not Singleplayer.	
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Hope the mods don't mind if I do a double post. My previous post is so long, I don't feel like it's fair to edit further on it. 
 
I would love a raid and dungeon AMA on fansites like /r/Wildstar on reddit for example. I really want to discuss current and future raids. Design philosophy etc. 
I'm also slightly worried about raids. Don't know how the reception for boss in a box was for example, and if they'll ever consider hard mode again. 
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by Razhork	
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{| class="blockquote"
Most people view non LFR raiding as just the same raid (and they're not entirely wrong)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So.. Yasfan is a solo player wanting an mmo to be solo focused. I get it now. Now its clear why Yasfan is heavily critical of Wildstar. Because its a game that is actually focused on group based end game content. This is why yasfan is always going to be liking any criciticism of wildstar. Like I said before.. There are other games with singe player focused content.  The M in MMO means Multiplayer not Singleplayer.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So.. Yasfan is a solo player wanting an mmo to be solo focused. I get it now. Now its clear why Yasfan is heavily critical of Wildstar. Because its a game that is actually focused on group based end game content. This is why yasfan is always going to be liking any criciticism of wildstar. Like I said before.. There are other games with singe player focused content.  The M in MMO means Multiplayer not Singleplayer.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Which one, there's 2 of them... :P
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{| class="blockquote"
Which one, there's 2 of them... :P
----
			
Y'know I'd like it if the grouping tool functionality was expanded so that I could queue for adventures AND dungeons at the same time.
 
Starts being a slight problem at 25 if I want to run everything at LEAST once.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Y'know I'd like it if the grouping tool functionality was expanded so that I could queue for adventures AND dungeons at the same time.
 
Starts being a slight problem at 25 if I want to run everything at LEAST once.
----
			The point of MAssive player games is not to solo. The greatest enjoyment in playing rpgs was the special moment that you could.. share in that enjoyment with another person. I have played rpgs for decades. The first multiplayer experience I had was in a MUd. When A friend in college introduced me and.. ton of us in a computer lab we had access to would group up and play till all night. Then I tried diablo 1. Then Diablo2 Which were more single player focused.. but your enjoyment and success rate for gearing up was increased via grouping. Then finally.. I played World of Warcraft. I recalled exploring the world not alone. Nope the greatest time I had was being with a friend as we explored the world in groups. Especially on a pvp server that meant danger lurked in every corner. When Wow jumped the shark and decided to cater to casual players they saw their sub numbers drop dramatically. They have yet to recover. Because they don't realize they opened a pandoras box that they now can't close up. Wildstar from design is aimed at being closer to that early period of Wow when challenge was everywhere and it required yes you needed to be grouped up.  IF you want a game focused on single play style where there is some group content.. Please play Wow.  Don't bring that LFR mindset here. WE don't need it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
When Wow jumped the shark and decided to cater to casual players they saw their sub numbers drop dramatically. They have yet to recover. Because they don't realize they opened a pandoras box that they now can't close up. Wildstar from design is aimed at being closer to that early period of Wow when challenge was everywhere and it required yes you needed to be grouped up.  IF you want a game focused on single play style where there is some group content.. Please play Wow.  Don't bring that LFR mindset here. WE don't need it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As the poster above said, WoW has only declined since the inception of LFR. For a brief 1-3 months after each expac it shines so people can see the new content but after they are done with it it goes right back to being farmville and people quit. LFR and it's ez mode content does not and will not ever be the reason people stick with a game. IMO it more hurts the game than anything. People don't have anything to look forward to anymore. They have nothing to strive for. Without a goal to reach then there is no motivation to play. You can push to get mounts/pets/etc but even those can only last so long.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
then you have games which failed form day one like wildstar and are now f2p :) the difference is in wow i can least play for a couple month each xpac. here in wildstar after a couple days on lvl 50 i have nothing to do and im bored shitless. im downloading swtor and the ff14 trial in the background.. maybe they have a accesible engame
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