145828-feedback-game-update-4-nov-2015

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== Content ==
			
Hey All -
 
All realms are now back online and update notes are posted. We'd appreciate all your feedback on this update to be left in this thread.
 
Thank you,
 
-Team WildStar	
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			Just wondering when we will be able to transfer from PVP to PVE or when is realm merger going to happen 	
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Carbine - I have to say, you're way out of touch with reality when it comes to your own game.
I am geniunely beginning to doubt your competency as a development team.
 
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You nerfed fusion runes into the ground. Why? I don't understand the purpose. I can understand either nerfing the runes throughput OR nerfing the crit/multi-hit option - but both?
For example let's look at Guardian Angel, which (in my opinion) received the hardest nerf of all the fusion rune - "Reduced healing to 8.567 IB + 8.567% SP, down from 19.15 IB + 32.5% SP".
It went from a 2062 heal every 1s to all allies within 5m, to a 685 heal every 1s to 5 allies within 5m.
This fusion rune was ALREADY doing ONLY 3% or less of our healing on a given fight... Why are you nerfing it at all?!
Look out guys! GA doing SO MUCH HEALING on this encounter... http://www.wildstarlogs.com/reports/HPYbcvn2N891RXGp#fight=35&type=healing&source=79
You've literally taken it to a point where it's probably more worth it to take stat runes in place of these fusion runes. Does that make any sense?
 
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You've also made it so that our fusion runes can no longer crit or multi-hit? What's the *cupcake*ing point in taking them at all, then?
You've almost completely invalidated the Multi-hit build for healers, and I'd bet you've made it so that (pending testing) taking stat-only runes will give more throughput than Fusion runes.
How about we do this - why don't you, as a Dev team, set our expectations for what you're looking for these fusion runes to do. Tell us what you think is the output these fusions should be doing, so we can anticipate a nerf or buff.
You took over a month to make these changes, and let us adjust to the feel of this rune system, only to pull the rug from under our feet once again.
 
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Can you please explain how every single patch, you make changes that completely *cupcake*your players over?
Most of us are literally going to have to rerune from scratch to accommodate these changes.. Which costs time, money, service tokens..
Are we going to be compensated for that?
But what the hell do you care, right? You don't even play your own game, shouldn't affect you in any way.
 
 
I have DPS who have literally lost 10% damage to these nerfs - that is unreal.
Once again, Carbine has gone in and completely ruined another section of the game that didn't need to be touched.
 
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Edit: I'd also LOVE to hear why we're now patching on Wednesdays, instead of Tuesdays.
Why do you let us get part of the way through raids, only to make changes like this? Incompetency is the only thing that comes to mind.
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by Baelix	
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			Since all my characters were stuck on loading screen does this mean they are unstuck and it won't happen again? I uninstalled the game but really want to play it...	
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			I can understand capping Guardian at 5 players as it was a bit too strong uncapped in some fights, but the huge nerf to the actual healing is kind of ridiculous.  The rune was really only okay on fights that had little movement but now its not worth running at all.  I am disappointed to see no changes to medic healing as the nerf last patch hit us pretty hard and now you have gone and nerfed 2 more sources of our healing.  Going to be pretty hard for medic healers to remain viable if you keep this up.	
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			Engies getting a well deserved nerf.. Kappa //	
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I love this game but I think what drives me the most crazy is the fact that it doesn't ever seem like the devs or anyone responds to any posts on the forums. I realize you can't respond to everything but when you ask for feedback there should be an open dialog between us and the dev. Granted you might get flamed or people will be angry but hell take it with a grain of salt because people are passionate about your game and want to see it succeed. It's is a bit crazy the changes we see finally hit live and were so far from what the game needs right now....
 
I have a guild with 50+ attuned and active level 50s EVERY night....we are trying to form 2-3 20man raid groups - but I know at least half of those players want to quit already because of the rune grind while we are just trying to walk into GA. You have made it so people who hate pvp have to pvp to be efficient at farming superb runes... nothing even comes close to the same time investment/return. Everyone was praying for the rune update and a better fix and that's no where in the patch notes...(after re-reading this I think I want to expand on it a bit further)
 
Now with the grind for glory and the only way outside of raids to truly farm that being dungeons... you have forced people to only go with their pre-made groups and have completely cut out any reason to random queue and help new players or people still trying to gear, helping a new player can easily turn STL into a 30min-1hr run, we wont even talk about the longer dungeons.... So to continue to be efficient, people dont want to go without their top tier groups and you have insanely long queue times for anyone just trying to break in.
All of this just to have a chance to pop a pure rune frag bag and get eh... maybe 0-2 run frags..... You are literally segmenting and killing sections of your game and dividing the playerbase on so many different levels.
 
We're already losing a lot of the population from the initial F2P launch because the game does a poor job at showing people what they need to do and explaining progression. It's made a mess out of random dungeon groups and honestly your player base shouldnt have to step in to hand-hold or guide new players. It's good that we can help but you create arguments and setup people to get flamed "for asking a dumb question" only because the game doesn't help guide them very well... This just creates an environment of frustration, giant time sinks and you won't maintain anything but the die-hard people who want to raid or have invested so much time into the game they don't feel they can leave.
 
Outside of the sub model there is no way for this to remain profitable. Please I would love to help... message me, I run with some large guilds on Entity and Warhound, I have made friends with others. I'd be happy to compile all of our requests and problems we find and present them in a formal and useful manner. Just show us you actually care about your playerbase and we'll help you keep funding the project. We don't want it to die... Do you? It feels like you hate the game you're developing and want it to crash and burn..... Let us help you make this the game you originally wanted it to be!
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by Leapster	
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You took over a month to make these changes, and let us adjust to the feel of this rune system, only to pull the rug from under our feet once again.
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Horrible Patch.
 
unneccessary Nerfs to runs to a game to is losing players makes no sense
 
I was looking forward to some of the runes... now i dont care anymore
 
bye bye	
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What the?
 
Do you even play the game? Why on earth do you touch a place in game, that needed no touching on.
 
Do you even care about the game, other than your fancy graphs and telemetri to tell you how much you need to nerf stuff.
 
No wonder people left the game in the first place, f2p aint gonna fix this mess.	
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Carbine - I have to say, you're way out of touch with reality when it comes to your own game.
I am geniunely beginning to doubt your competency as a development team.
 
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You nerfed fusion runes into the ground. Why? I don't understand the purpose. I can understand either nerfing the runes throughput OR nerfing the crit/multi-hit option - but both?
For example let's look at Guardian Angel, which (in my opinion) received the hardest nerf of all the fusion rune - "Reduced healing to 8.567 IB + 8.567% SP, down from 19.15 IB + 32.5% SP".
It went from a 2062 heal every 1s to all allies within 5m, to a 685 heal every 1s to 5 allies within 5m.
This fusion rune was ALREADY doing ONLY 3% or less of our healing on a given fight... Why are you nerfing it at all?!
Look out guys! GA doing SO MUCH HEALING on this encounter... http://www.wildstarlogs.com/reports/HPYbcvn2N891RXGp#fight=35&type=healing&source=79
You've literally taken it to a point where it's probably more worth it to take stat runes in place of these fusion runes. Does that make any sense?
 
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You've also made it so that our fusion runes can no longer crit or multi-hit? What's the *cupcake*ing point in taking them at all, then?
You've almost completely invalidated the Multi-hit build for healers, and I'd bet you've made it so that (pending testing) taking stat-only runes will give more throughput than Fusion runes.
How about we do this - why don't you, as a Dev team, set our expectations for what you're looking for these fusion runes to do. Tell us what you think is the output these fusions should be doing, so we can anticipate a nerf or buff.
You took over a month to make these changes, and let us adjust to the feel of this rune system, only to pull the rug from under our feet once again.
 
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Can you please explain how every single patch, you make changes that completely *cupcake*your players over?
Most of us are literally going to have to rerune from scratch to accommodate these changes.. Which costs time, money, service tokens..
Are we going to be compensated for that?
But what the hell do you care, right? You don't even play your own game, shouldn't affect you in any way.
 
 
I have DPS who have literally lost 10% damage to these nerfs - that is unreal.
Once again, Carbine has gone in and completely ruined another section of the game that didn't need to be touched.
 
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Edit: I'd also LOVE to hear why we're now patching on Wednesdays, instead of Tuesdays.
Why do you let us get part of the way through raids, only to make changes like this? Incompetency is the only thing that comes to mind.
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{| class="blockquote"
Carbine - I have to say, you're way out of touch with reality when it comes to your own game.
I am geniunely beginning to doubt your competency as a development team.
 
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You nerfed fusion runes into the ground. Why? I don't understand the purpose. I can understand either nerfing the runes throughput OR nerfing the crit/multi-hit option - but both?
For example let's look at Guardian Angel, which (in my opinion) received the hardest nerf of all the fusion rune - "Reduced healing to 8.567 IB + 8.567% SP, down from 19.15 IB + 32.5% SP".
It went from a 2062 heal every 1s to all allies within 5m, to a 685 heal every 1s to 5 allies within 5m.
This fusion rune was ALREADY doing ONLY 3% or less of our healing on a given fight... Why are you nerfing it at all?!
Look out guys! GA doing SO MUCH HEALING on this encounter... http://www.wildstarlogs.com/reports/HPYbcvn2N891RXGp#fight=35&type=healing&source=79
You've literally taken it to a point where it's probably more worth it to take stat runes in place of these fusion runes. Does that make any sense?
 
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You've also made it so that our fusion runes can no longer crit or multi-hit? What's the *cupcake*ing point in taking them at all, then?
You've almost completely invalidated the Multi-hit build for healers, and I'd bet you've made it so that (pending testing) taking stat-only runes will give more throughput than Fusion runes.
How about we do this - why don't you, as a Dev team, set our expectations for what you're looking for these fusion runes to do. Tell us what you think is the output these fusions should be doing, so we can anticipate a nerf or buff.
You took over a month to make these changes, and let us adjust to the feel of this rune system, only to pull the rug from under our feet once again.
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Can you please explain how every single patch, you make changes that completely *cupcake*your players over?
Most of us are literally going to have to rerune from scratch to accommodate these changes.. Which costs time, money, service tokens..
Are we going to be compensated for that?
But what the hell do you care, right? You don't even play your own game, shouldn't affect you in any way.
 
 
I have DPS who have literally lost 10% damage to these nerfs - that is unreal.
Once again, Carbine has gone in and completely ruined another section of the game that didn't need to be touched.
 
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Edit: I'd also LOVE to hear why we're now patching on Wednesdays, instead of Tuesdays.
Why do you let us get part of the way through raids, only to make changes like this? Incompetency is the only thing that comes to mind.
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i hear ya on the no longer able to crit or multi hit and some runes recieving nerfs that makes no sense (even tho runes like redmoon never crit in the first place) stil seems odd but from what i understand and read on the ptr (only applies to dun drop fusions) you will be able to upgrade these runes to 100 and 120 version so  we will get some dps back from them
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This is extremely disappointing. Carbine you need to take a hard look at how you are releasing your patches.
 
Reworking fusions requires everyone to re-evaluate and re-rune their gear. You have not fixed MAJOR problems with the fragment economy, or released the ability to remove runes for plat.
 
These changes should have been tested with feedback on the PTR. This should not have been released mid-raid week. Forcing players to re-rune should have been released alongside the rune economy changes that we've been desperately waiting on for over a month now.
 
*cupcake*ing pull it together Carbine. Stop mid-week patches that screw with raiding. Package changes that make sense (rune nerfs + rune economy fixes).
 
Frankly, you guys should jump on this thread. Announce that you *cupcaked* up. Revert the change ASAP and package this with the upcoming economy fix.	
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			FFS Crabene, why do this to the fusion runes T_T	
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Carbine,
 
Patches like this tell us that you do not respect our time. This should not have some out as a standalone patch. Roll it back until the economy changes are ready, because nerfs of this magnitude should not be something we need to deal with during the middle of an existing lockout period.	
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The biggest issue I have with this patch is just the the fact that the Rune Fragment economy still hasn't been fixed. Why is it taking so long to get us the rune bags that drop gaurunteed rune fragments?  I'll still buy a bag and get no rune fragments because the loot table decided to give me a Minor focus instead.
 
The lack of a reliable way to get rune fragments is making it increasingly difficult to gear up new raiders, or even progress current gear.
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by Coldin	
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Lets do a quick vote right here for them to see. Not saying you will quit the game right this moment, but how many people feel like they "want" to quit playing based on the types of patches we are receiving and the lack of feedback? Don't get me wrong I am not trying to rally people to quit, I like this game - we NEED the population to grow, YOUR BUSINESS needs it to grow. But we need to show Carbine in numbers that a large majority of active players aren't happy with the state of the game and over time and this repeated process you will see a lot of people quitting.
 
I'm won't quit right now... but if this keeps up for another month or so, I don't see me staying, especially trying to raid on Warhound with less population which means an even steeper rune economy and general economy overall than what Entity is facing, and they are having a tough time as well.
 
Just respond to us, show us you care.... I know a few of your devs have had to read this or at least your Customer support person, your social media person, someone is reading this. give them permission to respond and act accordingly. Hear us and let us work with you to fix some HUGE aspects of the game that hold everyone up from having fun.
Make the pure and divine rune bags drop decent rates or cut all the required amount of runes in half at least.... give the option to buy them with EVERY currency... why does it matter if people want to use renown or prestige on those, they don't even go in pvp gear so what's to worry about? It would just help the PvE people who like the PvP (or have been forced to pvp because its the only efficient farming method available)
 
Your worst case scenario is a bunch of people spend renown or other currency to buy bags just to sell the frags on the auction house -- This is even better... those people will make ingame money, it helps the overall economy, decreased prices, stops people controlling the market on a specific item (Yea you had this problem at launch, we learned very quickly how to control the rune market and credd markets - you are letting this happen again; all due to low population and bad judgement on accessibility) The only down side is people might progress through the raid zones faster because you can't gate them with rune fragments? IF you have more people playing, and its easier to get into well happier population, larger population and your game might grow. I cant even suggest to my friends who work full time and have kids or any activity after work to join and play. They are sticking to WOW and other games they dont even like (but they like to play MMOS) just because of the huge time sink at level 50.	
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I'm currently refering to the 120 versions...
The 120 Overflow went from 1.4k Shield restore -> 899 Shield restore.
The 120 Guardian Angel went from 2062 heal every 1s -> 685 heal every 1s, and capped targets to 5.
 
 
This has absolutely nothing to do with being able to "upgrade" runes in the future.
I'm talking from the standpoint of fully BiS, fully runed.
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			Thinking about it further, back when these new runes all went into place, only the class sets were referred to as chase sets. I think your viewpoint needs to change and top level fusions should also be viewed as chase targets. They should provide fun synergistic benefits with general raid loot tables and AMPs. They shouldn't be marginalized like this to the point where there's even a question of raw stats providing a higher benefit.	
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			THANK YOU for finally allowing us to get rid of gold seller spam dances!  Now, maybe add "gold", "Sell" and "Site" as banned words for character names? :)	
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Alright.  Not gonna over-react here, but looking at this, you literally took these runes made them 50% less effective.My only question is why?Where did this sudden need to nerf these runes come from and so drastically?  Gearing up to do raids and stuff is hard enough and people are literally doing everything to eek out as much dps as they can and then you nerf a significant place for damage runes.I don't understand.  This change was sudden and not even mentioned on the PTR.  Do you guys even still do PTR work or listen to feedback there?  Do you guys need help with PTR and feedback because i'm sure alot of people will go and help if you'd ask us to help test things if it was more prominently informed.I don't understand this decision and that's what bothers me.  I can think of justifications of it, but I don't understand why.
 
Please revert the rune updates, they weren't asked for or needed.	
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Logged into the PTR to begin sorting out this mess and figuring out what direction to give my raiders. The changes aren't on the PTR!
 
I pay for signature. PTR should allow me to test rune layouts and theorycraft. Why are changes on live, that were never introduced to the PTR?
 
Bloody livid about this whole situation right now. We're expected to swap around all our fusions/sets for testing on live???	
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Just wondering when we will be able to transfer from PVP to PVE or when is realm merger going to happen 
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Edit: I'd also LOVE to hear why we're now patching on Wednesdays, instead of Tuesdays.
Why do you let us get part of the way through raids, only to make changes like this? Incompetency is the only thing that comes to mind.
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{| class="blockquote"
Alright.  Not gonna over-react here, but looking at this, you literally took these runes made them 50% less effective.
 
My only question is why?
 
Where did this sudden need to nerf these runes come from and so drastically?  Gearing up to do raids and stuff is hard enough and people are literally doing everything to eek out as much dps as they can and then you nerf a significant place for damage runes.
 
I don't understand.  This change was sudden and not even mentioned on the PTR.  Do you guys even still do PTR work or listen to feedback there?  Do you guys need help with PTR and feedback because i'm sure alot of people will go and help if you'd ask us to help test things if it was more prominently informed.
 
I don't understand this decision and that's what bothers me.  I can think of justifications of it, but I don't understand why.
 
Please revert the rune updates, they weren't asked for or needed.
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the fusion rune changes are really, really bad and dumb
 
nerfing healing/damage output is one thing, and that sucks, but also making it so they don't multihit (i don't know of any fusion specials that crit) is seriously going to make lots and lots of people have to rerune their gear AGAIN
 
if you had ONE TIME, EVER said that it was unintended that fusion runes multihit this would be absolutely fine, but since they've been in the game for over a month, not to mention much longer on the ptr before that, this is completely unacceptable.
 
 
this is some of the worst communication i've ever seen in any game. i'd say "of all time" but you guys lied about converting prestige bags into gold only a month ago, so this comes as somewhat less of a shock
 
 
seriously NO ONE in game wants these changes. everyone will be switching to base stat runes on weapons now probably. what a bore.
 
 
edit: if engis and medics multihitting with runes for too much damage was what the "problem" was, just allow them to crit too. problem solved. unannounced damage nerfs are bad but livable, unannounced mechanic changes aren't
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by jinjo	
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It makes sense to have different weapon fusion runes that work better for one set of classes over another, it make things interesting and adds variety.  It's not hard to balance either. e.g. mordechai/venom/whatever is the "best" choice for x and stormtalon/siphon/blah is the "best" for y.  Otherwise why not just apply that logic to all other fusion rune and stats and just make them completely homogenous?  The healing fusions are/were already like that and is rather boring.
 
Some data and logic for all the nerfs would be nice.  Especially after some testing it looks like there were some stealth nerfs/bugs introduced in the last patch regarding procing of some of those fusions had reduced their effectiveness in anything other than junk trash mob parse fights.
 
Reasoning around the engi class set nerf would be nice too.  Previous data on the ptr for drop 6 suggested engis were well within average dps and they haven't had any actual buffs since.
 
Extremely annoying and foolish not to have put these on the ptr too.	
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			What the *cupcake* is up with the stealth nerf to esper runesets!!!!! they were cut down by like 40-50%!! they were already the worse one compared to everyone else lol	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey Baelix,
 
To answer the question of why we're patching on Wednesdays instead of Tuesdays it's actually to try to minimize the downtime of the game and account services. We were already doing account maintenance on Wednesdays so we decided to combine them so we didn't have to bring things down twice in a week. We're sorry if this has inconvenienced anyone's raids or game time but we believe having less downtime was better for the greater good.
 
In regards to the rest of your comments, we will be presenting to the appropriate teams once we've gathered enough feedback. WildStar is constantly evolving and we do take your feedback seriously.
 
Thank you,
 
-Team WildStar
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Well, not sure if this is the best place, but..
 
Can U raise the Bone drop rate?? Is very boring to try to farm them. No clue about where/what animal u have to hunt, and the drop rate is crazy low. At lvl 16 as Survivalist I get only 4 Dense Bones and I have spent time farming beast in some map areas looking for them.
 
PD: and the Plot for survivalist is a bit useless for Outfitters... few resources for us. What can I do with wood?? Nothing...	
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The game is a BUGGY MESS and there is barely any of the most trivial things that is not ridden with bugs. Every other complain-post i read contains something about the insane amount of bugs in this game.
 
And you guys release a patch that delivers like a total of 10 bug fixes, because you are too busy nerfing stuff instead??
 
You ask for feedback, here is feedback: Fix your damn game first.
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by f234r2gh	
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{| class="blockquote"
It makes sense to have different weapon fusion runes that work better for one set of classes over another, it make things interesting and adds variety.  It's not hard to balance either. e.g. mordechai/venom/whatever is the "best" choice for x and stormtalon/siphon/blah is the "best" for y.  Otherwise why not just apply that logic to all other fusion rune and stats and just make them completely homogenous?  The healing fusions are/were already like that and is rather boring.
 
Some data and logic for all the nerfs would be nice.  Especially after some testing it looks like there were some stealth nerfs/bugs introduced in the last patch regarding procing of some of those fusions had reduced their effectiveness in anything other than junk trash mob parse fights.
 
Reasoning around the engi class set nerf would be nice too.  Previous data on the ptr for drop 6 suggested engis were well within average dps and they haven't had any actual buffs since.
 
Extremely annoying and foolish not to have put these on the ptr too.
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Well, Moja said yesterday they wanted to make it so other classes dps are brought down near warriors.  Nerfing fusion runes will do this for the multihit specs.  Curious how much this will effect the damage now on the medics/engineers and bring them more to warriors.  But Mordechai and Stormtalon and Venom was about 40% (maybe more) nerf, so that 30k damage from these fusion runes will now do 15k.  That's not alot of damage going out so I really see players not using fusion runes in their weapons anymore.
 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
The game is a BUGGY MESS and there is barely any of the most trivial things that is not ridden with bugs. Every other complain-post i read contains something about the insane amount of bugs in this game.
 
And you guys release a patch that delivers like a total of 10 bug fixes, because you are too busy nerfing stuff instead??
 
You ask for feedback, here is feedback: Fix your damn game first.
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When i saw the patch note today :
 
 
I don't think it was really necessary. And we are 1 month after F2P, no news about Season 2 PvP, classes still unbalanced, no new BG, nothing about bots ... :/	
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Oh Great. I'm going to have to drop plat re-doing my runesets so I can raid effectively.
 
Why wasn't the rune drop changes in place BEFORE the nerfs? Or better yet, some heads up on the complete and utter annihilation of pretty much every healer fusion rune build.
 
Do you guys even know how expensive and arduous it is to rune gear?
 
And I'm not even using Pures/Divines!
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by Alamaurie	
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.... Guardian angel doesn't even go to people that are taking damage 90% of the time.. "hey guys lets nerf it and put a cap on it!"
Guess shield surge my go back on my las... maybe...
 
These rune changes are just wrong for so many different reasons	
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{| class="blockquote"
When i saw the patch note today :
 
 
I don't think it was really necessary. And we are 1 month after F2P, no news about Season 2 PvP, classes still unbalanced, no new BG, nothing about bots ... :/
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Funny thing is that in the last day or two, Mordechai runes went from 9-10 plat on the auction house to over 20!  ..not sure if they are worth 10% of that now.  Going to look at possibly trading mine for more crit hit severity tonight... maybe spec into vigor?
 
(it's cool when Redmoon procs, hearing that BOOM noise!  Devs should make it go pop now, lol)	
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Is there ANY timeline of when we'll have the PTR changes to Rune Fragments, or are we going to be forced to wait until Drop 7(Hopefully!) before we can gear up offspecs and alts?
 
With all these rune changes, but no way to re-rune afforadly in Live, it is becoming a massive source of frustration for players doing endgame content. I have several friends asking me for runing help and advice, who just freshly dinged 50, and even then, they can barely get any runes just off HIGH (L50) fragments, let alone raiders who require Pure (L100) and Divine (L120).
 
The bags are all broken though, except the level 10 bag.
On the PTR, each bag drops at least the minimum to make one whole rune.
On live, you're lucky if you even get one relevant fragment.
 
Is it really that hard to patch the rune changes in, so we can begin to have fun playing this game and not feeling kicked in the gut each time we want to partake in your PvE endgame?
 
Oh, and you released a new costume. That doesn't make up for the fact we've been giving you feedback about the rune system being poorly balanced since the f2p beta.	
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			Same with overflow and Gurdian Angle, just bad.	
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To the people that are complaining about nerfs and talking about rage-quitting.
 
What do you just want them to constantly buff something weaker every single time?
 
Look where the game has gotten because of that in terms of damage power creep.  It's through the *cupcake* roof!
 
If you think that selfish mentality will be sustainable, then you've got to re-evaluate some stuff.	
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			Hey everyone! We just released another patch that will probably require you to rerune your gear... again! Hope you bought plenty of service tokens! Mother*cupcake*ing cash-grab. I already probably lost one of my good raiders because of this money-grubbing shit. 	
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			Its a weapon fusion rune.  You shouldn't have to do a complete overhaul of reruning your gear.  Unless I missed something in the notes that changed class skills/amps/stats.  And if your build was completely focused around 1 fusion rune, than that is a broken game aspect and needed to be fixed.  2 class sets got toned down because doing to much damage.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Its a weapon fusion rune.  You shouldn't have to do a complete overhaul of reruning your gear.  Unless I missed something in the notes that changed class skills/amps/stats.  And if your build was completely focused around 1 fusion rune, than that is a broken game aspect and needed to be fixed.  2 class sets got toned down because doing to much damage.
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{| class="blockquote"
They did give notice actually a couple days ago.  But replacing those runes is min/max your gear, and should be prepared for spending plat on any changes.  They are still good for you to have.  Honestly, I don't know why they made these changes for healing, unless they were making it unfair in something in the game, but the dps changes were probably warranted.  I can think of pvp applications because healers are pretty OP in bg's atm.  4 healers!
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{| class="blockquote"
Its the *cupcake*ing principle of the thing man. No notice, no testing, just a nerf. And as a healer I have more than just the weapon fusion rune to replace (overflow and guardian angel at least) . Plus the reroll, especially if flat stats are now better than the new fusions. Its *cupcake*ery plain and simple and I'm pretty tired of it. 
----
			
I would like to add that the idea of what amounts to a surprise nerf in the middle of a raid lockout is simply rude to the population.
 
Why was this not on the PTR?
Why was this done in the middle of a raid lockout?
Why has the rune fragment economy not yet been fixed?Why are you forcing us to either spend service tokens (i.e. money) or destroy our runes in order to fix ourselves to maximize our efficacy?
 
I find it disingenuous for you to put "some" changes on the PTR for us to test and anticipate, while springing others on us suddenly. Not only that, but the ones you hold off on and leave on the PTR for weeks are the ones we really want and need, while the ones that you spring on us are that which we do not. Frankly, it's rude.
 
More specifically to the rune changes -- have you looked at the logs? Have you seen the small percentage that the fusion runes give us in terms of benefits? More specifically I'm talking about Overflow and Guardian Angel, since I am a healer.
 
Log (Note: you need to stop the generation of new items b/c hardened + WS Logs is funky)
 
Veluriel Vex:
Overflow hit 158 times and only did 3.22% of healing. (45% multi)
Guardian Angel hit 147 times and only did 3.37% of healing.
 
Pokka Fera:
Overflow hit 172 times and only did 5.63% of healing. (58% multi)
Guardian Angel hit 203 times and only did 3.84% of healing.
 
These are not absurd numbers. By taking away not only the total amount of healing per hit, but also adding a target cap to Angel, as well as preventing crit and multi-hit, you've essentially removed the effectiveness of the runes. I might as well just add stat runes instead to increase my throughput. (EDIT: Although I do intend on waiting to see hard numbers before making a final decision.)
 
Anyway, I just wanted to chime in because I don't want you to labor under the impression that Baelix is alone in his frustration. Just because the majority of people (and it is, whether you realize it or not) do not actively participate on the forums does not mean that they are happy. If telling my raiders that they need to speak up in order for you to understand is what it will take, then I will absolutely tell them to come here and second the complaints. Because apparently bulk is the only reasoning you'll see... if you see any at all.
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by veluriel	
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{| class="blockquote"
They did give notice actually a couple days ago.  But replacing those runes is min/max your gear, and should be prepared for spending plat on any changes.  They are still good for you to have.  Honestly, I don't know why they made these changes for healing, unless they were making it unfair in something in the game, but the dps changes were probably warranted.  I can think of pvp applications because healers are pretty OP in bg's atm.  4 healers!
----
			My favorite part about this patch is how they're intentionally not addressing the community's outrage over nerfing special weapon runes so hard that they're nearly useless. This thread is 90% posts about that change, and they're only responding to the other 10% about other changes.Carbine you need to get it together. You're not addressing any of the real problems with the game, assumingly because you don't even read feedback anymore, only to push out updates that nobody asked for and nobody is happy about. You don't show us as a community any trust to even know the reasoning behind your changes, or any significant roadmap for future changes.I'm cancelling my sub, this is pretty much the last straw that shows me you guys really are incompetent to run an MMO.	
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{| class="blockquote"
and fyi engis are sitting at the top of the dps charts on ST barring rng crit parse from a good stalker and medics
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{| class="blockquote"
Whats wrong with that?  If the majority of our damage is going to come from an ability that only hits a single target, then it better be very good at hitting that single target.  The Bolt Caster spec being the king of single target shouldn't even be a question until they rebalance other classes to have a similarly strong delineation between single target and aoe LASes.
----
			
+1 on nerfing runes.  That's assuming that this is the beginning of a deliberate effort to reduce the importance of runes and reduce the grind on them.
 
"Yo, dawg, we heard heard you like gearing up, so we put gear on your gear so you can gear up while you gear up." 
 
It takes longer and costs more to rune a piece of gear then it does to GET the gear in the first place.  That's backwards from how it should be.  Getting a drop you want should be the reward for raiding/whatever you do, not the beginning of the REAL grind, which ATM is just a mindless currency grind.
 
This patch is a good example of how NOT to implement that change, however.  It undercut existing functionality with nothing to replace it.	
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			id like to know the number of people that just spew stuff out without testing anything. hey i have an idea for you guys why dont you go on the ptr and upgrade your dps runes to ilvl 120 and find out that it still does the same damage if not more	
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{| class="blockquote"
Its the *cupcake*ing principle of the thing man. No notice, no testing, just a nerf. And as a healer I have more than just the weapon fusion rune to replace (overflow and guardian angel at least) . Plus the reroll, especially if flat stats are now better than the new fusions. Its *cupcake*ery plain and simple and I'm pretty tired of it. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 dps 
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{| class="blockquote"
Why are you talking when you have no idear?
 
Since lots of the fusion runes can no loger Multihit they are worse than just putting in stats...
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{| class="blockquote"
Already a medic healer = already nerfed. 
 
And yes, I know what ToS means. Its the contract you enter into with Carbine that governs the terms of service. Doesn't excuse lack of meaningful communication ahead of time. That bad customer service regardless of the ToS, EULA, ToU or any other contractual BS you want to pull out of your arse. And that doesn't even get to cash-grab *cupcake*ery. 
 
As for your assertion about all the testing that went in before they made the nerf, I just don't have the much faith in Carbine's competency.
 
Btw. "the principle of the thing" means that its not these particular nerfs I'm necessarily complaining about. But rather how the thing is being conducted in general. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Would love to see actual data on this.
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{| class="blockquote"
Would love to see actual data on this.
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Power creep is a problem. We expected the fusion specials to be retuned and receive nerfs. The nerfs that went live look pretty bad, but I haven't yet been able to test anything to determine hard values on how the new runes perform (ie. compared to raw stats + set bonuses).
 
The way this patch was pushed is the issue. The fusion nerfs were not released to the PTR, and still aren't on the PTR. No feedback was sought or received for these changes, nor was there any time allowed for players to test and determine what the new meta will become. The patch occurred mid-lockout and before a major, anticipated runecrafting economy change.
 
Do not confuse players irate about how Carbine handled this patch with players crying about nerfs. We'll figure out the new meta and move on, but please do not sweep Carbine's unprofessional behavior here under the rug. This needs to get fixed.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey Cataract,
 
Sorry you feel this way. We did just release some info on Season 2 PvP and BGs: http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2015-11-04-cryo-plex-arena-and-season-2/
----
			
I AM PISSED OFF BEYOND BELIEF!
 
I'm having flash backs to drop 3 where I quit for over a month waiting for the RIGHT fixes to the game.  I waited weeks for this #$(*& stupid #$* patch?  First keep PVE AND PVP SEPERATE!
 
Second FIX THE #$%^ RUNE FRAGEMENT DROP RATES! or extremelly lower the needed fragment costs per rune.  (Pure/Divine)  Make the rune bags more lucrative like on the PTR!
 
Third FIX STALKER TANKS SO THEY ARE = TO HEAVY TANKS!
 
Those are the major issues, no one asked for fusion rune nerfs!  SO WHY????????????????  GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT.  LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS, BECAUSE CLEARLY YOU DEVELOPERS DON'T PLAY YOUR OWN GAME!
 
Signed,  Going Postal!
			
				
	Edited November 4, 2015 by Gigaslave	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
they did give warning tho 
 Posted by Moja on Yesterday, 05:04 PM in Warrior
We're pushing more towards bringing other classes more to the level of DPS Warriors and Spellslingers, rather than buffing those two classes.
 
Many fusion runes with damage/heal procs, and some item specials (such as shields) are going to be seeing power reductions. These are disproportionately powerful on classes that focus on Multi-Hit, which means their damage will be reduced more relative to Crit classes. We will also be adjusting some class rune sets that are stronger than intended. These changes are not on PTR.
 
We don't have any changes coming to Warriors in the near future, and changes are more likely to be focused on Tank specs than DPS specs.
 
If you have anything you'd like to see or any concerns, please share your feedback! We're constantly monitoring the forums, even if we don't always have time to respond. Thanks!  :)
 
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{| class="blockquote"
I AM PISSED OFF BEYOND BELIEF!
 
I'm having flash backs to drop 3 where I quit for over a month waiting for the RIGHT fixes to the game.  I waited weeks for this #$(*& stupid #$* patch?  First keep PVE AND PVP SEPERATE!
 
Second FIX THE #$%^ RUNE FRAGEMENT DROP RATES! or extremelly lower the needed fragment costs per rune.  (Pure/Divine)  Make the rune bags more lucrative like on the PTR!
 
Third FIX STALKER TANKS SO THEY ARE = TO HEAVY TANKS!
 
Those are the major issues, no one asked for fusion rune nerfs!  SO WHY????????????????  GET YOUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT.  LISTED TO THE PLAYERS, BECAUSE CLEARLY YOU DEVELOPERS DON'T PLAY YOUR OWN GAME!
 
Signed,  Going Postal!
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{| class="blockquote"
To the people that are complaining about nerfs and talking about rage-quitting.
 
What do you just want them to constantly buff something weaker every single time?
 
Look where the game has gotten because of that in terms of damage power creep. It's through the *cupcake* roof!
 
If you think that selfish mentality will be sustainable, then you've got to re-evaluate some stuff.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Calm down...
All of that is already on the PTR and a dev said it should technically be coming in next week update.
 
Seriously, people need to calm their shit.
Until someone post meaningful data about the fusion runes versus set runes, people should stop crying and try out the new runes.
 
I for one welcome the change and am looking forward to see if the other runes that were completely useless like Ambusher are finally going to see some use.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Can't try out new runes, don't have the #$(*&% fragments to craft any!  Been promised drop increases for weeks!
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{| class="blockquote"
i hear ya on the no longer able to crit or multi hit and some runes recieving nerfs that makes no sense (even tho runes like redmoon never crit in the first place) stil seems odd but from what i understand and read on the ptr (only applies to dun drop fusions) you will be able to upgrade these runes to 100 and 120 version so  we will get some dps back from them
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i tested the 120 versions on the ptr they do either the same dps pre nerf or more even
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{| class="blockquote"
i tested the 120 versions on the ptr they do either the same dps pre nerf or more even
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{| class="blockquote"
Hey All -
 
All realms are now back online and update notes are posted. We'd appreciate all your feedback on this update to be left in this thread.
 
Thank you,
 
-Team WildStar
----
			...what on earth is this overreaction?  The nerf of fusion runes is...kinda minor.  Healing fusions perhaps make the largest difference, but it's still a small drop in the bucket of a sea of effectiveness.  Carbine makes minor changes all the time without pushing it to the PTR and I see this as no different.People threatening to quit over this is actually just HILARIOUS to me.	
----
			Making these changes to fusion runes before bringing in the other rune changes seems like a pretty obvious oversight, not to mention they seem to have gone way too far with the nerfing.	
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{| class="blockquote"
...what on earth is this overreaction? The nerf of fusion runes is...kinda minor. Healing fusions perhaps make the largest difference, but it's still a small drop in the bucket of a sea of effectiveness. Carbine makes minor changes all the time without pushing it to the PTR and I see this as no different.
 
People threatening to quit over this is actually just HILARIOUS to me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i tested the 120 versions on the ptr they do either the same dps pre nerf or more even
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Hey all,
 
Thank you so much for your feedback on today's game update. Your feedback is extremely valuable and we will be reviewing it with the appropriate teams.
 
Thanks again,
 
-Team WildStar	
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{| class="blockquote"
Thank you for allowing me to see the data. Much appreciated. I am very informed.
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{| class="blockquote"
Man... I'm having flashbacks. Hard.
 
Look, I don't much care whether this is small or big, test it in ptr for crying out loud.
But you can't be all "oh this is hilarious, stop whining, just leave"... You all already did all of that and ended up at a super niche game population level. I swear ddo had more players when I played it than WildStar did before f2p announcement.
 
So come on. Get a bit more original and constructive. Especially if you're not even a healer, your opinion is kind of baseless.
----
			
Okay, I'm usually level headed.
 
Carbine, you need to fix this.  These nerfs prior to fixing the SS not getting any cash shop, Omnibits, or tokens, or fixing the rune situation where we aren't spending real money on top of 15-30 plat for one piece of gear is unacceptable.
 
I'm not one for ultimatums, but I was going to spend some cash on Ncoins, not going to happen now.  
 
 
Again, fix this, over a month is long enough for your accountants to figure out if they want to continue to have long term customers or keep shaking the Freebots for loose change.	
----
			
I can understand the nerfs to Fusion runes (they were pretty powerful), but why have this also affected DS sets? For example, on the slinger DS set, "Flame Surge" is no longer able to crit or MH.
 
DS and GA sets are something to look forward to and therefore should also feel rewarding. These additional abilities should be able to Crit/MH.
 
Hopefully this is just a bug.	
----
			I'm just saying, people have been complaining at the lack of Pure/Divine rune fragments since day 1 F2P.  If you happen to have tuns of tradeable rune tokens, I'm sure this hasn't effected you that hard, but if you didn't, Good Luck runeing your gear.  Yet, another patch comes and goes, and all they implement are nerfs that are unwanted and more importantly unneeded!   Yet they have this horrible bottleneck on rune crafting and stalker tanks are still super squishy.  PRIORITIES!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i tested the 120 versions on the ptr they do either the same dps pre nerf or more even
----
			You can offer constructive criticism without insulting the staff. Nobody wants to see that crap.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
seriously dude?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can offer constructive criticism without insulting the staff. Nobody wants to see that crap.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I can keep going, but I think you get my point.
----
			
Something I don't understand... On an effort/cost level. "We'd rather nerf four classes, than buff two classes"; That was Moja's statement, in gist form. Why would it be more effective for Stalkers, Engis, Medics, and the other class that he didn't mention to get nerfed to the Warrior's level? And why would they state this, shortly after giving a significant buff to pre 48/57 Stalkers? Doesn't that cause a conflict of interest, if they're going to turn around, and nerf away the buff they just applied? 
 
Is it because they can't figure out what could be buffed for Warriors, and it'd be easier to just cut everyone else at the knee and watch them struggle? 
 
Also, their Butters is ON POINT. Their Safe-Space is amazing; Only seeing the non-rune/non-nerf feedback!
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXQkXXBqj_U
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Leucienweaver	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
If your point was "people have the right to insult the staff because of this", no.
 
If your point was "people will insult the staff because of this", yes. I understand that there are some people who probably will. I also understand that they're violating the code of conduct and should be put in the corner and take a time out from the forum. Lotta' people manage to be upset about this stuff and explain why they're upset without calling the staff stupid, or referring to them as inept. Ain't hard.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But its time gamers started demanding better from the companies THEY SUPPORT.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
If your point was "people have the right to insult the staff because of this", no.
 
If your point was "people will insult the staff because of this", yes. I understand that there are some people who probably will. I also understand that they're violating the code of conduct and should be put in the corner and take a time out from the forum. Lotta' people manage to be upset about this stuff and explain why they're upset without calling the staff stupid, or referring to them as inept. Ain't hard.
----
			Why. Why did you decide to steal all my healing. Exuberance, Guardian Angel and Soothing Light are now almost useless. That is a huge loss of healing. They are almost better off being ignored then being used. Do you guys know what its like healing in a raid? Have you played a spellslinger healer? Those 3 fusion runes were what made us amazing at healing. I will know more when I raid Friday, but i am willing to bet that the pain will be real.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But when you make developement choices like this, you have to wear your big boy pants and expect this kind of backlash.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh Great. I'm going to have to drop plat re-doing my runesets so I can raid effectively.
 
----
			#SaltLakeCity	
----
			
I don't even give a stuff about the nerfs that much.
 
Sure it hurts a bit. Every time your DPS/HPS goes down, that hurts.
But if they think they want fusions to be on-par with stat runes (just giving 'flavour'), instead of being powerful in and of themselves, fine.
 
What makes this a terrible decision is:
1. Surprise nerf on a Wednesday, mid-raid-week. We get your reasoning that 1 downtime is better than 2. Good, smart devs, finally figuring that out (only took, what, a year?). But then move the raid lockout to Wednesday too. People will whinge a bit, but will adapt their raid schedules and it will all work properly again. Dropping a surprise nerf patch mid raid is just bad management. Really really really bad management, that clearly doesn't give a toss about its players.
 
2. Rune nerfs with no fix to the fragment drop rates. Why did this even progress to this point? Ever heard of the Carrot *and* the stick? It's basic psychology. Like, first year level psych101 stuff. How could you possibly have people on staff, who are quite literally getting paid to do these things, who don't understand this stuff? You want to do a nerf that is going to make half your playerbase need to purchase fragments and re-rune very very rapidly? How about giving them the carrot of at least fixing the drop rates on this so the materials are available? It takes all of 30 seconds to stop, look at that patch list and go: "yeahhh we'll just delay this one until the other, related change is ready".
 
3. Mechanic changes that aren't replicated on PTR, so people can't test their stuff properly. Even if you do the changes at the same time, at least do them... so people don't need to burn through Live stuff to figure out what's going on. I get the impression there's people on staff who are of the firm opinion that "the players are lucky we even give them a PTR", so we should be thankful regardless. I'm not sure what planet they're on, but PTR is overwhelmingly something that benefits the devs more than the players. It allows you to roll out changes, gain feedback, fix bugs, etc, without disrupting Live / causing any accidents requiring rollbacks (which probably net cost devs more time than players). You have a PTR for a reason. Use it.
 
It's this simple decision making that is really dreadfully lacking in CRB. It's seriously showing guys. I don't know what your structure is like there, but someone needs to take responsibility for this pathetic decision making and either get replaced or get a better supervisor.. someone with their head screwed on preferably. You do a good job usually, with the general game design. That's why you have fans trying to play the game. But one in every two or three decisions you make are just really really poorly timed / poorly designed. For a team that claims to be experienced, you look like novices playing with a system you don't understand.
 
In a model without a cash shop, it would be viewed upon poorly (And it was, when you started).
But in a model WITH a cash shop, it just looks like total disrespect for your players and a lame cash grab for service token purchases.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Why. Why did you decide to steal all my healing. Exuberance, Guardian Angel and Soothing Light are now almost useless. That is a huge loss of healing. They are almost better off being ignored then being used. Do you guys know what its like healing in a raid? Have you played a spellslinger healer? Those 3 fusion runes were what made us amazing at healing. I will know more when I raid Friday, but i am willing to bet that the pain will be real.
----
			
I honestly just wish Runes weren't as important as they are. They are such a hue chunk of your DPS - yet it's a pretty uninteresting and downright confusing system for a new player. I'd rather see more power to the gear than the runes, but that'd cripple the community since a lot of people invested 100's of plat into it by now. 
Quite sad from my perspective. You have to tread carefully when changing runes from now on. Tell the community in advance - they might not agree with certain nerfs, but a bit of preparation for nerfs would be awesome. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I honestly just wish Runes weren't as important as they are. They are such a hue chunk of your DPS - yet it's a pretty uninteresting and downright confusing system for a new player. I'd rather see more power to the gear than the runes, but that'd cripple the community since a lot of people invested 100's of plat into it by now. 
Quite sad from my perspective. You have to tread carefully when changing runes from now on. Tell the community in advance - they might not agree with certain nerfs, but a bit of preparation for nerfs would be awesome. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How do you not have enough fragments to try them?
Right now, I could get enough Pure fragments and maybe even Divine Fragments from my Glory that I'd run out of Sign of Fusion before I'm out of fragments to make fusion runes.
 
The only thing that is a pain to get on live are Pure/Divine Set and Class major.
----
			
Heh.
 
Heh. Heh. Heheheheheh.
 
Suddenly not having runes on all my gear pays off.
 
 :lol: :lol: :lol:	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Heh.
 
Heh. Heh. Heheheheheh.
 
Suddenly not having runes on all my gear pays off.
 
 :lol: :lol: :lol:
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
obv perfectly fine if you dont raid (which you prolly dont)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i dont know if everyone here raids, sry :(
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
LOL- you realize this is Tex, right?
 
Yeah, he made the right call :D
----
			
If multi-hit was the issue, why not just remove the multihit proc? If the damage was the issue, fine, decrease the damage. Doing both seems a bit overkill. Considering how big these number tweaks seem, I'm also surprised they didn't hit the PTR first for at least a little testing.
 
I, too, would like to vote for NOT having changes implemented mid-raid lockout. Why not move maint to Tuesdays? Or (ugh) move the raid lockout. I'd prefer that not be the case, but we can manage with whatever.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Ha- it's just he's pretty vocal about not raiding and tends to give me crap about being a raider (in a friendly way).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, and today I am just giggling because I know how much time and effort (and money) you guys have invested in Runes ... and I've here like "Hey! Lookit all mah money I didn't spend!" :lol:
 
Not that I don't feel y'all's pain. I totally get the frustration. Just glad this is one time, one thing, that I have little invested in.
----
			
This is my feedback not just for this patch but for the overall game.
 
1. Releasing Rune changes without at least taking the rune out for the characters who had them slotted and then mailed back is wrong. Why should we now have to use Omnibits or any leftover Service Tokens on Rune changes YOU guys made. Why should we pay for rune changes in patches.
 
2. Game updates are a horrible mess. I had to find out about the changes from a chat channel. The launcher does not take you to the game updates section and it should be built into the launcher i.e. You should not have to open a webpage to view any patches. Clicking on the Patch Notes section in the launcher takes you to the Drop section of the website. In order to view actual patch information you have to dig around and click Game Updates. This information should be upfront . . . hint: Take notes from another launcher from another game company not saying which though.
 
3. Give more information on why said changes occurred. Its starting to become common practice on some...not all game companies to state why they made said changes in most of their patch notes which are -cough- upfront on the launcher. Just going around changing this and that with no info on why they were made is bad practice.
 
4. Fusion runes are meant to have specials because they are special. Weighing them equal to stat runes is horrible when they should be stronger. Right now Fusion runes give just about the same HPS or DPS as a stat rune or very very close to. Why bother with Fusion runes at all then? They are being stripped of what makes them Special. Example: Venom . . .you reduced it after changing it..make up your mind. Right now my Figment AMP does more damage than what it can put out I think that is just wrong as to where Fusion runes should stand. Fusion runes need balancing yes but making them useless is bad if anything a Pure Fusion rune should be better than any Dungeon Fusion Rune IMO but that wont be happening since no one knows how to balance anything it seems.
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Jorn	
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{| class="blockquote"
Ha- it's just he's pretty vocal about not raiding and tends to give me crap about being a raider (in a friendly way).
----
			
1) Fusion runes nerf was needed. Single rune providing 10% DPS or 10% healing is beyond reasons. 
2) Two 80 lvl weapon fusion runes needed a lot more nerf than others. You don't need 100/120 fusion runes unless you can keep up with them, and no way you could. Yes, Morde's one can not be crafted, but it's still 80 lvl rune, not 100 lvl. Syphon/Venom nerfs are uncalled for, since currently they are still sub par even higher lvl ones.
3) AP/SP power ups affect runes, and warriors are best at this. Multi-hit/Crit are not affecting runes. Why? I suggest putting fusion procs formula to something like (IB + AP/SP %)*(1+crit chance*crit severity)*(1+multi-hit chance*multi-hit severity). It will make changes even for classes that stack AP/SP buffs or multi-hit/crit.
4) Healing fusion runes are still more useful than regular runes. No single stat rune can provide 5% healing. No stat rune can provide shield healing. Still, it's kind of disappointing that you cannot control it's usefulness - it's mostly useless unless your entire raid is already dead. You'd catch up with this 5% any time with regular 300% overhealing.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
1) Fusion runes nerf was needed. Single rune providing 10% DPS or 10% healing is beyond reasons. 
----
			The fusion runes are a little better, but not by much for going pure stat.  A divine onslaught vigor rune gives about 1%.  If the special is doing more than 1% of your overall dps, than it's better to go special.  Some fights it isn't though.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
AGAIN? Some people are finding it very hard to keep up with these costs...
----
			Surprising us with a move like this that effects raiders so strongly in the middle of a raid lockout was very, very inconsiderate. No warning for something that cost me 30 plat to rerune? AGAIN? Some people are finding it very hard to keep up with these costs, thanks to this change going through before the increased drop rate of fragments goes live. Healslingers already don't bother with the class sets since they are useless. Now it appears to be very debatable as to whether we should bother with fusion runes. Why did you add these things in the first place if they aren't going to be attractive enough to actually use?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Hey, they gotta sell those Service Tokens.
 
If you think there is more to it than bending over the #hardcores in an attempt to milk you for more Tokens, you're kidding yourself. There is no other rationale for making these unannounced changes in the middle of raid lockout, period.
 
Once again, Crabino finds a way to make a buck at the expense of hapless players who will do anything and pay any price to "remain competitive."
----
			Well, moving the raid lockout would be terrible for anyone who has scheduled around it (i.e. raids Tuesday. i.e. us)	
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We're Tues/Thur/Mon. Shifting the lock-out would just move farm night later in the week. It is manageable, and 100% better than mid-week patches.
 
The other solution is to have 2 maintenance windows. You know, like they did for over a year before F2P.	
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I, too, would like to vote for NOT having changes implemented mid-raid lockout. Why not move maint to Tuesdays? Or (ugh) move the raid lockout. I'd prefer that not be the case, but we can manage with whatever.
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Back to the OP problems.  I'd agree with Tex that this is a cash grab and that the intent is to generate money in the cash store or via service tokens, etc., to "make it better again" in the future?  However, I'd posit that it's more of a NCSoft-game-style cash grab, or an attempt to morph a western system into a system similar to that in many eastern games.  "Runes" and "Slots" are generally prime cash sinks in those.
 
If so, then Carbine again has no say in it-- accountants have told NCSoft to milk this potential as well, because addicts will pay anything in any created market whatsoever.  And then NCSoft has told Carbine, "make it so".
 
If that's the case, Carbine can do little to change it.  I'd suggest voting with our wallets, but the problem is that, classically, NCSoft's response to "not enough profit" has been "shut it down", which means that Carbine would have to find another buyer/distributor, or fold the game.
 
I will hope that this is not the eventual outcome, and that there is some commitment to keeping the game alive: it has so much potential.
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Gamezilla	
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{| class="blockquote"
We're Tues/Thur/Mon. Shifting the lock-out would just move farm night later in the week. It is manageable, and 100% better than mid-week patches.
 
The other solution is to have 2 maintenance windows. You know, like they did for over a year before F2P.
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I really doubt NCSoft micromanages to the extent of telling WS when to release their 'minor' updates.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
2 maintenance windows >>> changed lockout >>>>>> mid-week patch.
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{| class="blockquote"
Hi DrJade, we're still in discussions on that and will let you know when we have made a final decision. 
 
Thanks for your patience,
 
-Team WildStar
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What the *cupcake*is up with the stealth nerf to esper runesets!!!!! they were cut down by like 40-50%!! they were already the worse one compared to everyone else lol
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The patch note reads: "Damage and Healing from Fusion runes should no longer Critically Hit or Multi-Hit."
What went live:  "Damage and Healing from Fusion and Class Set runes should no longer Critically Hit or Multi-Hit."
 
From Moja's comments a couple of days ago -- this looks to be intended. Would like Carbine to weigh in.
			
				
	Edited November 5, 2015 by Zebdan	
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Thank you for allowing me to see the data.  Much appreciated.  I am very informed.
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{| class="blockquote"
The patch note reads: "Damage and Healing from Fusion runes should no longer Critically Hit or Multi-Hit."
What went live:  "Damage and Healing from Fusion and Class Set runes should no longer Critically Hit or Multi-Hit."
 
From Moja's comments a couple of days ago -- this looks to be intended. Would like Carbine to weigh in.
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If this was the case, nerfs multiple classes, not just espers.  But more on some classes with how multihit works and the buffs they recieve from multihit.
 
Engineer:          Eradication T4 (Rocket Barrage), 
Esper:               Mental Prowess T8, Fiendish T8
Medic                Overcharge T4, Atomic Charge T4
Spellslinger:      Flame Surge T4, T8
Stalker:             Eviscerator T4
Warrior             Unity T4, Burning Rage T4, T8(not sure about T8 because extra damage on ability)
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Yeah Echo Impact is still multi-hitting. This is silly if the whole point is to level the playing field between multi-hit and crit build classes.
 
All things that could have been quickly pointed out with a PTR cycle and clear communication on the intent of the balance changes!	
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			If you want feedback why don't you explain exactly what you did in patch notes and not letting people find out, you guys need to work with a psychologist that can tell you the right and wrong ways of treating players, plus with all this tooltips wrong and bugged it's hard to see anything and all this leads to a huge rage piling up. And this is my feedback on current patch notes.	
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			They should be focusing on pvp balances, creating more maps for pvp and class designs. Look at what gets more attention here and that's the pvp thread. You want to draw more customers instead of chasing them away. We know you can't take every feedback, but focus on what's very important to the game and not something that's end game. Wild Star doesn't have a big audience right now and I'm not sure if you're aiming for that, but if you are. You got to start making this game look good like my draken hair.	
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			Nerfs to DPS fusions are definitely warrented, chain lightning and detonation were doing way too much damage. As a spellslinger chain lightning did more damage than some of my normal abilities against packs and medics with detonation were destroying packs with 70k+ dps. Venom was shit and after the nerf nobody will run venom anymore, unless they think 270 dps is worth not getting a set rune in that slot. honestly going 2/6 6/6 or 4/4 4/4 beats venom any day	
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As a new player to Wildstar (but an MMO veteran playing since 1985) I have some thoughts:
The changes will not impact any of the new players who have arrived due to Wildstar going F2P. Most of them have not even hit level 50 yet.	Decreasing the importance of runes across the board can be a good thing. In both PvE and PvP it can make battles be based more on skill and less on the rune effects on gear.	Nerfing the higher level runes will make them less important to have -- thereby addressing the complaints about how hard it is to acquire them. No need for guilds to slave for weeks to rune up the players if the runes no longer have a large impact.	It is common for a game that has gone F2P to regularly (2 or 3 times a year) implement impacts that rebalance the classes and class abilities -- sometimes in major ways. I expect such changes to occur and continue to occur over the next couple of years so no big deal.	
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dear carbine can we have some support on the pvp forums please.. there are so many threads about  problems and suggestions  on how to fix them with no response ....
 
the game is general has so many bugs ...   (i cant even properly invite people to a group without reloading my ui 100 times)
BOTS ... matchmaking system?  costume bugs... still no leaderboards , armory or something to see our long term progression 
(C mon... i cant even see my lifetime kills )  --     balance issues ,  and other many issues  with no response ..
 
And you are focusing on weird rune nerfs and adding stuff to the shop....  Are you sure that you are in the right track?  have you noticed that the game is losing players again ? 
 
So whats your plan ? are you gonna give some support to your players that love the game and want to support it ? or are you gonna continue doing irrelevant stuff that ruins the game even more?
What kind of policy is this?   
you got like EVERYONE in the game asking you for something .. and still you are not doing Anything.. or even response to share your thoughts.... or explain the difficulty of the issues .. or something for the sake of love .  like : OK guys this is not possible Because of ........'  OR.. . ok  guys we gonna check this out and give you feedback ....  
 
is it too much? c mon give me a reason to support this game that i love so much	
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So you're saying you prefer 2 maintenance downtimes per week, over just rejigging things so there was one on a Wednesday that synced in with everything?
Interesting...
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			I don't really see the problem. If you raid Tues/Wed/Sat (or whatever, just an example), and lockout was changed to Wed... literally nothing about your raid schedule would need to change except for the day you start - it would become Wed/Sat/Tues instead.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't really see the problem. If you raid Tues/Wed/Sat (or whatever, just an example), and lockout was changed to Wed... literally nothing about your raid schedule would need to change except for the day you start - it would become Wed/Sat/Tues instead.
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I get that it will upset players that can't attend every night. Some times you can make partial schedules work (we've done it) -- but honestly they should try to find a group that does meet their commitment level and/or schedule.
 
If you have players that only come for farm night, or can't attend farm night -- it causes problems. They either aren't bringing gear to progression, or aren't getting gear for progression.
 
Shifting lock-out may show a player's true colors. While it was impossible to get them to show up for wipes on progression, they may figure out how to show up for easy loot. :P	
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What is the mother-cupcaking point of PTR if we get shoved with the unexpected patches mid raid week that were never there?
 
Irresponsible. Unacceptable. Unprofessional. Pathetic.
 
But hey, do the winter thingie, I'm sure they won't notice! We are soooo sneaky.
You really want this game to fail don't you? No, it's not the players fault they quit. It's your fault for not handling it like professionals.	
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I get that it will upset players that can't attend every night. Some times you can make partial schedules work (we've done it) -- but honestly they should try to find a group that does meet their commitment level and/or schedule.
 
If you have players that only come for farm night, or can't attend farm night -- it causes problems. They either aren't bringing gear to progression, or aren't getting gear for progression.
 
Shifting lock-out may show a player's true colors. While it was impossible to get them to show up for wipes on progression, they may figure out how to show up for easy loot. :P
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{| class="blockquote"
They should be focusing on pvp balances, creating more maps for pvp and class designs. Look at what gets more attention here and that's the pvp thread. You want to draw more customers instead of chasing them away. We know you can't take every feedback, but focus on what's very important to the game and not something that's end game. Wild Star doesn't have a big audience right now and I'm not sure if you're aiming for that, but if you are. You got to start making this game look good like my draken hair.
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Here's my simple feedback:
 
Runes aren't fun. They're expensive as %@#^, and if you pick/craft the wrong ones, you're SCREWED. I'm literally sitting on orange pvp gear with no runes because I want to wait for someone who knows a lot more than me to post a guide so I don't get screwed out of a ton of plat runing the wrong way. I have an orange weapon that i TRIED to rune and realized i'll never make 8/8 and have my fusion bonus because I didn't realize how the system worked with the item-specific special. I was so pissed off after I realize it that I stopped runing all together.
 
In short, it's punishing, it's mix/max-y, its'a currency grind and now it sounds like it's not even worth the effort or the money you put into it. 
 
Make this system fun, whatever you need to do. 	
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This topic is solving my riddle about riddiculous low damge and def at pve. from 1 day to an other it went down to almost nothing at my warri.
 
Thanks for ruining the game.
Esper still are OP and better then 2 warris. Why not nerfing them to.. wait.. you do.so all are bad.
 
/edit: 8 pages no answer? good customer care. remembers me at my worsest nightmares at your 1st free to play try. But without bullying.
 
The "best" at this change": for this r2 like money grab patch payers will be punished to.
 
And r2 stands already for pure scam and greed. please dont go this way.
Even if the custmer care is already ignoring the customers like them.
 
Thanks for re directig at least.
 
Here my other statement:
For this cash stuff nerf.
Shall i rage about this cash shop advisors here and about their theory that it is cheap and right or shall i want my subscripton money back? I am not sure.It starts to beginning to being smelly.<- for subscribers and buyers of the game once everything was free.
I only say "I DONT WANT AN ASIA - CASH GRINDER".
The 1st pre patch is made. Even subscribers are gettig fooled. If this is continuing. See this game dying like an fly or only being powered by (in)sane mega cashers.
 
mega.. 1000 $ an month or 2000. but therefore  only an few players left. no subscribers but them.. well if that is the point where our alpha developement help and beta test- efforts and our support for the developers is leadig to then dig an hole, lay this game into it, showel dirt on it and sell it to this cheap  asia grinder scamers , then i am more then sad.
 
 
Sorry for this but i am still an fan and somehow i dont like it becoming an cheap "cash for everything" game. Some more comunication about cash plans would be nice.
 
/edit: cash is good.but for  your loyal (ce) subscribers base: please re think this and make an better offer. Only For Subscribers/content buying free ones or both together. 
			
				
	Edited November 7, 2015 by Bladeofhonour	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Refusing to give a company your money if they don't do a better job is "demanding better from the companies".
 
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Here's my simple feedback:
 
Runes aren't fun. They're expensive as %@#^, and if you pick/craft the wrong ones, you're SCREWED. I'm literally sitting on orange pvp gear with no runes because I want to wait for someone who knows a lot more than me to post a guide so I don't get screwed out of a ton of plat runing the wrong way. I have an orange weapon that i TRIED to rune and realized i'll never make 8/8 and have my fusion bonus because I didn't realize how the system worked with the item-specific special. I was so pissed off after I realize it that I stopped runing all together.
 
In short, it's punishing, it's mix/max-y, its'a currency grind and now it sounds like it's not even worth the effort or the money you put into it. 
 
Make this system fun, whatever you need to do. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Be very, very careful what you advise if you enjoy this game. Because that same advice was given a year ago, and you see what happened to Wildstar. People spoke with their wallets. Free-to-Play is their last horrah. If you think for a moment that NCSoft won't pull the plug if this game doesn't do a turnaround by their benchmarks, please reconsider that position. City of Heroes announced its sunset 14 months after F2P launch because it failed to grow under F2P enough for NCSoft (yet it was profitable). 
 
It would be a real shame if the gaming community had to go through a round of "Save Wildstar" on the internet next year.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, and this. I'm only level 30, but I've looked into the rune system ahead of time. That crap is just not fun. Not in the slightest. At this point, I can't see myself doing it. So . . . what? I'll just hit level 50, see the zones, then shelve the game? If that's how Carbine wants it. But there's no way I'm grinding the gear just to grind the rune fragments just to grind the . . . .
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Hi all,
 
We're very sorry but we must ask that you post your feedback about the recent rune changes in the official feedback thread here: https://forums.wilds...ate-4-nov-2015/.
 
Thank you for your understanding,
 
-Team WildStar
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It is pretty obvious why these changes were made since Season 2 PvP is coming out on the next major update. But lets face it why are you doing the biggest mistake every game company does and try balancing PvP and PvE at the same damn time. You can never achieve that. Have you guys never heard of PvP only Runes and Specials? Maybe even have them drop from the bags that give an equivalent Special as to the ones we have now. That way . . . . . . .. when you make a balance pass on runes you dont screw over those who PvE. Since a Rune Special that gives 3% of my total damage is *cupcake* in PvE ( Big *cupcake*ing deal ) as oppose to PvP which is sorta a big deal since the things we are killing have a small health pool. Only Special that could have been tuned was Guardian Angel but all you had to do is cap it at 5 Targets and not touch anything else about it. 
 
You also are bouncing around like ......wont say it.....since you seem to be going back and forth on things. One example is Venom lets say, you changed the rune once, you then lower its damage and remove its ability to crit and multihit and then on PTR you increase the damage back up and make it multihit and not crit  . . . .are you guys going insane? You have to stop making people think you dont know what you are doing and do things right.
 
Moving on, any further Rune Changes made by you must be thought out and a way has to be found on how to deliver any changes since it requires currency to remove runes if the changes are *cupcake* which most of the time are. Also some thought as to when changes to not just runes but the game in general are made. Dont know who is in charge of allowing these changes to go through but a flag should of been raised when these changes were presented like " Hmm Rune changes....Hmm Rune drop rates....Yea lets wait a bit to release this ".
			
				
	Edited November 8, 2015 by Jorn	
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{| class="blockquote"
Have you guys never heard of PvP only Runes and Specials?
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