148044-what-on-earth

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Having seen games die before my eyes a few times now I'm wondering what can be done to rescue Wildstar that hasn't been said at least a hundred times already. I have no idea what's happening in the US servers (and to be frank I couldn't care less) but atm on EU "servers" there is almost nothing happening. The merger of pvp servers saw a decline in the number of active players to the point where standing in Illium with never more than 50 players is routine, despite this there are players who still love the game (hell, I'm one of them.)
 
The catalogue of problems seems endless I really dont know where to start. Merging servers because of lack of players should ring alarm bells for anyone. But why are there so few new players? The game is F2P and there are certainly worse games out there...(a lot of worse games out there) From what I've seen on YouTube, Wildstar gets reasonable reviews and aside from the awful launch most ppl want the game to succeed. Blade and Soul hasn't been released and neither has Black Desert, neither of which have endgame content and both suffer from their own drawbacks in one way or another. Other than the fact that they're another new mmo their appeal is broadly covered by whats already available...There are already complaints about both new games that dont bode well for any longevity....and the promise of "new content" to be added is frankly b*ull-sh*t, both games have been around long enough to have added content in their time.
 
So how do other established games capitalise on this mmo boredom? There cant be a constant stream of "new" mmos, all of which are doing the same thing essentially. Wildstar struggles early game by having a confusing and cluster-f*ck attitude to questing. Its been said 4 million times before but the early game needs to be streamlined. Everything is introduced all at once with little explaination leaving the casual player befuddled and the experienced player bemused, neither of which is the intended response I assume....
 
Having had this conversation with a number of guild mates (all of whom have left the game btw) I'm more than happy to hear that there are players still enjoying the end-game. That isnt my concern. What is troubling is hardly anyone can be bothered to get to end-game in terms of new players and you cant build an mmo on alts. There simply wont be the cash coming in that new players spend to develop and improve the game or even keep the game working. When Wildstar went F2P there was talk of an event every month...there has been one so far and that was removed because it broke. During which time the auction house didnt work and the commodities broker was removed for 24 hours, not to mention the error messages...it felt like a beta.
 
I know that ppl dont want the game to dive and will say "doomsday" prophecies dont help but if ppl dont say anything how on earth can they expect new players to join a game that clearly puts ppl off within 20 levels. If that weren't the case Wildstar would be a buzzing environment of new and old players working together. To draw a direct comparison (which is probably unfair) Tera went F2P within its first year and still enjoys an avid fan-base. It is in no way a better game than Wildstar, and yet it is considerably more populated....again I know the NA market for Tera was boosted massively by its inclusion on Steam, but that didn't happen for EU servers, and still its a busier game.
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is more to do with development and attracting new players. While they may bring the minor headache of having to explain stuff like where to find your pet etc if you're an experienced player, they also bring cash if you can keep them and thats where Wildstar seems to fail. Not because it isn't a good game but rather because the early game is dreadful, to the point that a new player simply cant be bothered to level.
 
A few recommendations that have been raised 100s of times before and duly ignored (hence the current situation). Streamline the early game. Make the default camera action the same as other action mmos. Increase xp gain (again) while levelling cos its taking too long to get to endgame atm anyway. Clean up the endless bugs (this is not a beta!) and for the love of god do something about early game pvp bots. Most games suffer with twinking in low level pvp, Wildstar suffers with the very opposite.
 
Apologies for the wall of text. I know there are ppl that want to defend Wildstar and I can understand why to some extent but if any defense could explain the incredible fall in active users across both PVP and PVE servers then maybe they already know the solution and the ppl responsible for Wildstars future should listen. As for myself, I'll dip in and out cos I dont think its a dreadful game or anything..
 
Enjoy! :D
 
 	
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			If you haven't read the post then don't respond at all. That would be the polite thing to do. And while we're being polite..."Thanks for your constructive contribution. Always welcome. Less than 50 players in Illiuim on the only pvp server seems fine to you?" thats fine by me. Jog on. You are helping no-one and nothing.
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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Merging servers because of lack of players should ring alarm bells for anyone.
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			What's wrong with the camera? Played lots of Mmo's. Noticed nothing different here.	
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			Most action mmos don't require you to hold the right mouse button to look around. Its a minor concern but one that is still awkward. Thank-you for posting.	
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			Hmm I didn't notice this being a problem. And why is this bad for you?	
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			It isnt. I immediately changed it in options to match all other action mmos. The reason I mention it is because it should be the default. Anyone coming to Wildstar from any other action mmo will find its default control awkward or at the very least "unfamiliar". Again, thank you for your post. Not the most pressing issue that Wildstar has to deal with but I think we got that one covered....
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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			Is wow like this?	
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			From very distant memory the camera in wow auto-centres behind your character to allow for its incredibly dated tab-targetting mechanic, the likes of which we wont see again in any new mmos hopefully....	
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			1-50 takes 6-8 hours now, that is to fast.  Probably why people don't understand whats going on because leveling to fastt.	
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Orestes if that were even remotely true for new players there would be an absolute swarm of them in capital cities asking for raids and pvp warplots...since neither is the case I'm not sure what game you're playing
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			Orestes if that were even remotely true for new players there would be an absolute swarm of them in capital cities asking for raids and pvp warplots...since neither is the case I'm not sure what game you're playing. I'm levelling a character on Luminai atm, he's level 28, no pve dungeons pop for over an hour and the BGs that do pop are literally 8 bots on either side...how is this fun?
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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			Then I'm happy for you. Its a shame that you're enthusiasm doesnt translate across the board with new players. I'm not interested in a p*ssing contest about how to level the fastest. That doesnt help new players or indeed player retention (clearly). I'm interested in hearing about how the game is likely to survive beyond the launch of BnS and BD. But, as always, I thank you for your input. (However irrelevant it may be)
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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			Roll on the PvE server mate . It seems like not many ppl play on the PvP one cos well Open World PvP doesnt work very well in a game like Wildstar and instanced PvP can be done on a PvE server ..	
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			I already have max characters on the pve server j0shm4n. I understand what you are saying but it does beg the question, why have a pvp server at all? And since Jabbit was recently merged with its pve counter-part, clearly the number of pve players is falling too. I'm not sure that this is a long-term solution you're offering although I agree it would be wise for any new player to sign up to Jabbit (while making a couple of extra characters on Luminai in readiness for the inevitable merger of both pve and pvp realms)	
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The thing is, I play on the pvp server. Am I bothered about the low pop? Not particularly anymore. It's got to a point where I'm so used to being on a unpopulated server for this game and watching people flock to one server to overload it for NO REASON other than "crowded is better".
People seem to value the amount of people loitering around in the cities rather than the actual content. 
 
The auction house is still fine on Luminai, the credd sells, I sell lots of things daily. Exile is very populated compared to dominion. I main dominion, and yes sometimes it does suck to see no people in the city, but who cares... All my pvp content is right there in the lfg and I can queue for a lot of things for the friends I do still have on dominion.
 
But making these endless threads about how dead the server is has been a contributing factor into killing the pvp servers. And apparently I am a white knight for saying this, no matter how true it is.
 
And the camera? You mean there's no auto follow/centre? I prefer my camera like that, I always turned it off in wow, it made for raiding to be much easier, and in pvp you can be more aware of your surroundings.	
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			Sylqt, thankyou for posting. I dont dissagree with some of what you say, I do however take issue with blind ignorance when it comes to declining server population, which is never something to be encouraged in any mmo. Where do you imagine the funding comes from for the game? Fully geared players like yourself? This is not a thread about the death of pvp servers and if it came across that way I apologise for being mis-leading. Server population is incredibly low across both pve and pvp servers (one of each now but still plural). Wildstar is F2P! and still the server population falls. This is not just a mark of pvp popularity vs pve....and it would be naive to say it is.	
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			Again. The servers weren't merged because of lack of population. Stop spreading untruth.	
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Lemurian. Thankyou for your post. Please go into detail as to why the servers where merged so that I may understand. I'm assuming it wasn't because on Luminai-2 you could stand in the centre of either Capital city and not see another soul for 2 days....
 
Ofcourse they close servers when the population is so low as to make the game unplayable in groups! What on this earth are you talking about? And even when the 2 pvp servers were merged the population fell further! Theres no discernable improvement in server population on Jabbit either after the server merge but why not carry on ignoring that fact? There is clearly a reason (or reasons) why players dont stay or indeed bother to make it level cap and while its uncomfortable for players (myself included) to admit, the fact remains.
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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Just to point something out you seem to be misunderstanding:
The reason for the "-2"servers, and their merging back into their prime counterpart, were technical issues.
With the massive influx of new players with the F2P relaunch we had a lot of issues with lag, their quick fix were additional servers while they were fixing the underlying problem, it was planned all along to merge servers after the problem had been fixed population decline was not a factor in that decision. At all.
 
You can read the whole announcement here, the important part is this:
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Once we have resolved the current issues, we plan to merge these additional realms.
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I'm NA PvE, so I can't speak to the population issue you are seeing.  But the most recent server mergers didn't happen because of lack of population.  They had to make "sister servers" after F2P because of lag/performance issues, and they were planning on merging them back when they fixed the problem.
 
As seems to be the trend, new players are probably getting discouraged from joining PvP servers, so that could be part of why you aren't seeing new players on your server.
 
The starting process has gone through a few streamline changes.  I haven't started out in W* in a while, so I can't say if it's better or not, but I do remember there being tutorials that pop up, and the quests didn't seem like a big cluster *cupcake* to me.  What are the specific issues?
 
Streamline the early game:  What would you suggest would do so?  It's not enough to say "Streamline it.", it helps to also give examples and ideas.
 
Not everyone that's coming to W* is coming from other action MMO's.  If the mouse had been default to that, I probably would not have been as enthusiastic, especially if I didn't know that I could turn it off.  So maybe they should put a tutorial/pop up in that let's people know about mouse lock.
 
I don't think exp. needs to be boosted.  You get a fair amount of exp. from doing the story/zone quests, tasks don't give much so those can be skipped if your goal is level and not leisurely listening to the story and exploring.  Even so, they do give us access to boosts.
 
Yea, bugs need fixing.
 
PvP Bots need to be dealt with.
 
 
 
As for people defending W* and maybe doing it zealously, I think they are reacting to the tone of the posts like these that get made, and not necessarily the content of the post itself.  If a person comes off a bit offensively and/or aggressively, it will rile up the community and they will react to it.	
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I and many other people who are concerned for the state of Luminai, have MADE TICKETS and sent reports directly to carbine.
 
Please, I urge you if you are worried about the state of your server, report it directly to the source and do not exacerbate the problem in threads such as this. It will just cause the problem to get worse, and I don't mean be completely ignorant, I mean DO something about it by pleading to the actual devs.
I understand how annoying it is to have severs that look empty, but remember there ARE raiding guilds on Luminai, a lot of us are in HOUSING, a lot of us are in ARENA or actively participating in instanced content.
 
PLEASE, send a report to the devs, don't spread fear and make even more people leave. Please, because right now Luminai is "low population" but it is not dead yet.	
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			Another suggestion, when making threads about how to help populate and/or retain, please don't doom and gloom about the game dying, or how you've witnessed other games dying and you think the same may be happening to this game.  We've seen enough of those types of threads and posts.  If you truly want to get/give suggestions on how to help the game, just straight up give or ask for suggestions.	
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Lemurian. Thankyou for your post. Please go into detail as to why the servers where merged so that I may understand. I'm assuming it wasn't because on Luminai-2 you could stand in the centre of either Capital city and not see another soul for 2 days....
 
Ofcourse they close servers when the population is so low as to make the game unplayable in groups! What on this earth are you talking about? And even when the 2 pvp servers were merged the population fell further! Theres no discernable improvement in server population on Jabbit either after the server merge but why not carry on ignoring that fact? There is clearly a reason (or reasons) why players dont stay or indeed bother to make it level cap and while its uncomfortable for players (myself included) to admit, the fact remains.
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			Thanks for your post enter_name_here. Are you seriously suggesting that it was a plan to have less than 50 players in the Capital city on the only pvp server in the game? If thats the case then I needn't have bothered posting at all lmao. (When I say 50, I'm being generous....) I didn't post the thread to be placated by nonsense. It was done out of concern, having seen games with considerably higher server population be pulled, where the people who pointed out faults were told by an incredibly gullible user-base that the devs were "taking care" of it. Scare-mongering is what happens in wow, when ppl say its dead or dying (when clearly that isn't the case). And in point of fact if wow had the server population of Wildstar then maybe it wouldnt be scare-mongering at all, it would probably be pulled.	
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			Lemurian. Bore off with the pvp vs pve server comparison. The simple fact is no mmo can be played if you're the only guy in the capital city. Thats exactly why the servers were merged and its ridiculous to state otherwise. The fact that they foresaw a decline in players does not in any way negate the fact that it is directly linked to volume! In point of fact thats the very arguement for closing them! None-the-less your talent for hiding behind complete BS could stand you in good stead if you ever decide to become a politician.
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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			The second servers were merged because they were originally created to lessen server load at f2p launch, there was no intention of keeping them.	
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			Yeah, ok. If you can't accept when you're wrong on the facts and examine the broader issue, this isn't a discussion. Have a nice evening I'm going back for a couple more Expeditions.	
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It isnt. I immediately changed it in options to match all other action mmos. The reason I mention it is because it should be the default. Anyone coming to Wildstar from any other action mmo will find its default control awkward or at the very least "unfamiliar". Again, thank you for your post. Not the most pressing issue that Wildstar has to deal with but I think we got that one covered....
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Thanks for your post enter_name_here. Are you seriously suggesting that it was a plan to have less than 50 players in the Capital city on the only pvp server in the game?[...]
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			Thanks for your post Naunet. I'm aware of a tiny number of abilities that follow this pattern out of an enormous number of spells. I would however counter with the arguement that this is tab-targetting and counter to what action mmos are designed to overcome. I fail to see how your post is being helpful at all in terms of new players experiencing the game for the first time and/or the retention of those players. In all honesty it seems like a small issue that I mentioned as part of a much larger post but as always I appreciate the feedback. Just to be clear though....no other action mmo uses this right mouse click to turn the camera when the right mouse button is much better served as an ability button like the left mouse button. In any case the problem is solved by manually reconfiguring the key-bindings, which I highly recommend. My original comment merely asserts that this should be the default and if you want to make it some weird pseudo-tab targetting game feel free.	
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			Ahahaha. Okay Beattlebilly, I think we can be done with this thread. xD	
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... Not being helpful? You didn't understand why it wasn't default, and I explained why. You can't make a feature default if it doesn't play well with other even more baked in components (actual spells).
 
I don't want to "make it" anything. I am telling you how the game is.	
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			enter_name_here thanks again for posting. Although lord knows why given that we've already covered this...At the risk of repeating myself: They chose to merge the servers at a time when the population of the secondary servers was so LOW as to negate possible end game play. The result has been no discernable increase in server population on either the pvp or pve servers. Whether they said it in the bible the fact remains it was directly related to server population!!!	
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			 :unsure: Are you really here for a discussion on how to help the game, or just to argue?   :unsure:	
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			Thanks again Naunet for your continued response on this issue. Since I'm completely bored by your opinion we will have to agree to dissagree. I'm not sure how many ways I can say that the default controls are clunky but if you are happy with them, I'm happy for you. Again, and for the last time I will say that no other mmo has this mechanic and so if you are a new player coming to Wildstar you may well find it awkward.	
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			beattlebilly. Thanks for your post. When someone says something constructive in this thread I wont argue. Ways to improve the game for new (and seasoned) players...How to engage existing mmo players in a way that encourages them to go beyond the first 20 levels etc...I dont really need to hear that Carbine entirely planned the server population to be as low as it is or that 1 person doesnt change the keybindings and is perfectly happy with however clunky they are set out originally. Apologies if I sound grumpy lol
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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This is not a pure action mmo per say and was never designed that way it is more of a hybrid like GW2. Which up until recently GW2 never had an action view either, the action mode within Wildstar was just a bolt on to accommodate those who like this style of play as there were a number of addons which made use of doing this.  
 
Having something which was more or less frankenstein'd into the game should never be enabled by default because if you have ever played with the action view in Wildstar you should know there are a number of flaws with it that needs ironed out.  Unlike Tera the game was not originally designed with this view in mind and hence it doesn't feel as smooth as what Tera does so I would hate for it to be the default on. 	
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 I will say that no other mmo has this mechanic and so if you are a new player coming to Wildstar you may well find it awkward.
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Thanks again Naunet for your continued response on this issue. Since I'm completely bored by your opinion we will have to agree to dissagree. 
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			So my very first post in your thread, the first post that shows up on page 2, isn't constructive?  I gave some ideas, reasons, and suggestions, and asked for suggestions in return, that's part of discussing things like this, isn't it?  And if you want people to be constructive, don't you think you should give a little too? 	
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At the risk of repeating myself: The decision to merge the secondary servers was made before they were opened, population can not have affected that decision regardless of what you may choose to believe. It absolutely was not related to population because it can't be related unless Carbine has access to timetravel technology, a working crystal ball or so little faith in their product that they somehow foresaw the population drop right after they relaunched the game and had a massive influx of players.
But it's clear that arguments and facts are wasted on you, I'm out. This discussion is going nowhere fast.	
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			I'd like to take this oportunity to thank all who replied to the original post. Since neither you nor I can reach an agreement on how best to improve the game to avoid the inevitable I can't see theres much point in my fielding responses that are neither constructive nor problem-solving. (although I did find the list of tab-target games quite funny and the rather strange confession that Tera is a better game somewhat bewildering) Again many thanks and I very much hope that continued ignorance is the way to ensure an mmo survives the next 5 years. That will be all.	
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beattlebilly. Thanks for your post. When someone says something constructive in this thread I wont argue. Ways to improve the game for new (and seasoned) players...How to engage existing mmo players in a way that encourages them to go beyond the first 20 levels etc...I dont really need to hear that Carbine entirely planned the server population to be as low as it is or that 1 person doesnt change the keybindings and is perfectly happy with however clunky they are set out originally. Apologies if I sound grumpy lol
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			Absolutely. (Especially the wine part!) That was exactly the point of the original post. I understand that I can come across as aggressive. I make no apology for that. I continue to play Wildstar and posted originally out of genuine concern. If people don't share that concern then so be it. Games certainly come and go and what seems worth fighting for today is often a distant memory later (usually a fond memory). From experience changes to a game (for the better) happen through player intervention and long may that be the case.	
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IMO things that can help out:
 
-Merge the factions
 
-If they could find a solution for it, merge the regional servers.
 
-Have a proper and IN GAME progression path after  hitting 50 - too many players think they should just hop right into vets and get smacked hard.  Encourage vets to go into adventures to help the new players out.
 
-Hard work on bugs - I know its an ongoing process but it's something that really needs more priority to give the game the polish it deserves.
 
WS will always have a small-ish pop compared to other MMOs, so having it split so many ways just makes it worse.	
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I like your Faction merge idea a lot but would like it fleshed out in game through some universal catastrophe that threatened both sides, rather than just a "yer we're merging the factions..." etc...an in-game, ongoing saga that posed an external threat with random spawns attacking cities on both sides. Sure we could still squabble in BGs and arena but in the gameworld, we wouldn't be fighting over masks in a temple....it would be to defend whats ours.
 
The bugs drive me nuts sometimes but I'd happily ignore them if I was defending my city against some horror (upscale/downscale gear and level who cares...everyone would rally surely) A faction merge needn't even be permanent, allowing for game devs to twist the story and involve players in their original chosen faction further...Conspiracy, action, adventure...make the people playing the game care about the city they're standing in. I know you can do that sort of thing in dungeons but it lacks the immediate threat of Ogres (or something) barrelling at your door lol
 
I think the best way to engage people is through story-telling both in-game and outside. You tell mates when something unexpected happens in a game that is awesome! and that encourages them to play cos they want to see and feel that way too. They want to join in. Not many get excited about trolling through 50 levels to then troll through adventures/dungeons so they can then troll through raids. The end result needs purpose. Why are we fighting? For gear...yawn. To defend whats ours together makes more sense :D and aren't mmos the best gaming medium to tell that evolving story?
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by zagzig	
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Again. The servers weren't merged because of lack of population. Stop spreading untruth.
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-Have a proper and IN GAME progression path after  hitting 50 - too many players think they should just hop right into vets and get smacked hard.  Encourage vets to go into adventures to help the new players out.
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I and many other people who are concerned for the state of Luminai, have MADE TICKETS and sent reports directly to carbine.
 
Please, I urge you if you are worried about the state of your server, report it directly to the source and do not exacerbate the problem in threads such as this. It will just cause the problem to get worse, and I don't mean be completely ignorant, I mean DO something about it by pleading to the actual devs.
I understand how annoying it is to have severs that look empty, but remember there ARE raiding guilds on Luminai, a lot of us are in HOUSING, a lot of us are in ARENA or actively participating in instanced content.
 
PLEASE, send a report to the devs, don't spread fear and make even more people leave. Please, because right now Luminai is "low population" but it is not dead yet.
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I'm having flashbacks to last year right now. It's getting to that point :(
 
/sob	
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they waited with the merge till alot of people stopped playing regularly.
there is surely truth in it and a relation between low pop server -> fast merge (pvp servers) and medium pop servers -> waiting with merge.
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OP
 
with such a charming personality like this, it is absolutely astonishing why no one wants to play on a pvp server with you.  i have seen you post in numerous other threads in a rational and constructive manner for the most part.  then there is this topic.  you do not seem to know how to have a reasoned discussion without being snarky or just a straight up asshat.  you have to work on some issues.
 
"I have people skills dammit, WHY DONT YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT"
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by Foul Wind	
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			Don't say "thank you" if you are not really thankful.
			
				
	Edited December 11, 2015 by SlyJeff	
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			Just seems someone has a difference of an opinion to OP, than "to boring" or they are wrong.	
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