Hey! Who's not voting on Tuesday?

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Hey! Who's not voting on Tuesday?
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Sabrina Cotugno
Sabrina Cotugno 
@arythusa 3 years ago
So there's a presidential election on Tuesday! I know this is a roleplay forum for fandom fun times, but can we talk about this for a bit?
Specifically, I want to talk about getting out the vote! It's traditionally super hard to get young people out to the voting booths, which means that our interests are often overlooked in favor of older and often much more conservative voters.
This year in particular there's been a lot of ambivalence and apathy keeping young voters at home. A lot of Millennial voters just don't have much enthusiasm and are choosing to stay home. Are you one of these people? If so, what are the concerns that are keeping you from voting?
As for myself, I've been following this election super closely and I am pretty psyched to turn in my ballot. I want to encourage everyone to join in and vote! Even if you're not excited about the lady at the top of the ticket (even though there's a lot to like about Hilary!) you can still get pumped to vote on new senators, propositions, and local measures that could do a lot of good for your city and state!
But I'm sure that people who are still reluctant to vote are tired as shit of hearing people lecture them about the importance of voting. Spoiler alert: I do want you to vote, but I don't want to shame you or lecture you into doing so. Whenever possible I would like to be able to address your concerns and hear your side of the story as well.
It's pretty weird that I, a storyboard artist/comic writer, am coming into this space to talk about politics. But this is a big election, and as long as I have a platform (however small) to reach people, I may as well use it! This may be a mistake.
Also!! I know a lot of y'all are under 18 and/or live in another country. Feel free to jump in and give your opinion as well if you like!
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Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
My mom says Hillary
My dad said Sanders
I said not trump.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
Okay! Are you planning on voting? Aaaaand--have to ask in response to "not Trump"--are you considering voting third party?
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Elaina Hyde  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
I'm
Not old enough XD
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Sabrina Cotugno  Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
Oh! Well, that settles that, then.
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Elaina Hyde  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
XD yeah.
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Miss-Dreamerkat • 3 years ago
I can't vote yet. I'm not 18. But i will probably vote when i do.
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Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I'm definitely voting!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
YYyeeeaaaaaaaah! *high five*
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
*high fives back at ya* Right on!
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Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
I'm Canadian, so it's not an option for me. But I heartily agree that everyone who can vote, should definitely get out there and let your voice be heard!
It is your country! Take good care of it!
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
I don't know what the government in Canada is like... I've once heard that it's a country of provinces which is like having one big government telling all the little government want to do. Is this close at all or do I need to do some research?
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
I don't know much about Canadian politics either but I'm eager to learn! About the extend I hear is something a long the lines of "And we've got this cool new Prime minister and he's super cute."
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Helen Jekyll  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Ah, people and their crushes on peoples appearances. XD I do hope that wasn't the reason why they made it into office.
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Only part of the reson. He's also son of one of our previous prime ministers, and big on LGBTQA rights.
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
Oh, well that sounds like a good reason to have him!
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
😁We thought so too!
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
So, do you not get to vote? *tilts head*
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Oh I'm of legal age to vote! I just, apparently didn't register?
I was expecting the voting ballot to come in the mail but it never showed up. :T
I've got some learning to do too. :p
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
Huh, that's okay! At least you're making an effort to learn! 
Do you have to register each year you vote or is it a one time thing?
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
I honestly have no idea. My head hurts. >_- )
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
Oh, I'm sorry about that! I'll have to research voting... I'll have to do it someday...
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Me too! From what I usually here though it's about his platform, his goals, his actions, and then how cute he is.
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Helen Jekyll  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
I see... well, at least they seem to have their priorities straight.
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Yeah, pretty close I think. But doing research never hurts!
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
Woo! Time to learn some new things!
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Yay, learning! \(^o^)/
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
Learning things I would like to learn as well!
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Woohoo!
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
*spends a good hour trying to look into the Canadian government* Hmm... I... still don't really understand... it's saying things but I don't know what they mean... *sighs*
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Yeah. Generally in class they'd teach us the vocabulary and then explain the systems the terms applied to afterwards.
From what I can remember, our two systems of government are substantially different. With the American system being more democratic, but also containing more parts.
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Helen Jekyll  Catt Hatter • 3 years ago
I think I'm just getting overwhelmed with all of the parts... The website I found says there are three levels of government, each with their own jobs, and each level has a whole bunch of sections... 0-0
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Catt Hatter  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Yup, but I think most governments tend to be complex. (Municipal, provincial, and national right?)
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Jekyll1886  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
I found a nice general overview of Canada's system of government here:
http://www.worldatlas.com/a...
Hope it helps!
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Helen Jekyll  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
Ah, thank you! It did a pretty good job of simplifying it!
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Jekyll1886  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
Hooray! :)
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Sylveondream • 3 years ago
To answer the following no I'm underage by a year. Ps, how do I join? I am very confused.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
Do you mean, how do you register to vote? It's pretty simple! Just google "register to vote in (INSERT YOUR STATE HERE)". You may have to register with a specific party (most people register as one of the major parties--democratic or republican). Also be careful! If you want to vote, you should try to register at least a month in advance, since registration closes a little while before voting.
You unfortunately won't be able to vote in a big fancy presidential election for a while, but don't forget to vote in the midterm elections! These have a really big impact too*, but a lot of people forget to vote because they get less coverage. :(
*it's how Republicans won control of the House and Senate, blocking a whole lot of Obama's plans
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Sylveondream  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
What I'd meant was how do I join this group. (First time herez) Also thank you for the advice! I got to vote as soon as I turned 18
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
Hello! Welcome to the Role-playing Scientists! We're a bunch of fans of Sabrina Cotungno's webcomic The Glass Scientists who role play in her universe. Normally we're not talking politics but this discussion seems to be an acceptation. Normally we're talking about the comic or Role playing to pass the time between up dates. We have a wikia (it needs to be updated. :P ) that'll get you started with understanding the universe and stories if you're interested: http://the-roleplaying-scie...
Also our founder Mz.Hyde should also be able to help introduce you to this amazing place!
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Sylveondream  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Thank you and I will quickly look at the wiki as soon as I can.
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
Take your time and I hope we'll see you on here again in the future! :)
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Sylveondream  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Quick question : in the introduction thread how do I start up a intro? *
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
So to start an RP intro what we do is you'll make a new discussion on here (all of our roleplays happen on here and I or Catt just convert them over to the wikia so it's easier to log and keep track of all the events). You'll fill out a short questionnaire on your character (I'll use this to make their wikia page) and then write up a scenario on how they're introduced to the society. So for the questionnaire I can post the questions on here if you want and you can also look at the bios of the characters for ideas on how much or how little to want to put about them on there. Then for the scenario you can click on the introduction filter and look at some of the other introduction RPs for ideas on how that works. Hope this helps and don't hesitate to ask questions! :)
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Sylveondream  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
I would appreciate if you could post the questionnaires here. I hope I am not asking for too much.
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
Not at all! By the way I may be disappearing here for a while these next couple days. Anyone here can answer your questions or point you in the direction of some one who can if I'm not able to get back to you in a timely manner. 
What's your character's full name?
What's your favorite quote from you're character?
What do they look like and what's their personality like?
What's their backstory before they came to the society?
Do you have any pictures of them that you drew or found?
Do they have any nicknames?
What do they study at the society?
Do they have any jobs?
What is their age?
Are they human? If not what are they?
Are they single, dating someone, or married?
What's their height?
What's their weight?
Anything else I should know about this character?
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Sabrina Cotugno  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Would you guys be okay with responding to that questionnaire in a separate thread? I'd like to keep this thread at least remotely related to the election!
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
Oh! Of course! @sSylveondream We can move this to the main page thread it's labeled Role-playing page for pg. 70! I think.
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Helen Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
Oh, there's no way to really officially join, just people show up, introduce their characters, and start Roleplaying! We don't have many rules here, just the basic courtesies of Disqus and Roleplaying, and most people here can answer any questions you have or direct you to someone who does!
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Sylveondream  Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
I just wanted to make sure but thank you!
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Helen Jekyll  Sylveondream • 3 years ago
You're more than welcome! I hope I'll get to see you in discussions soon!
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Mz.Hyde Mod • 3 years ago
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
Are you old enough to vote this year?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
Yes. This is my first election.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
Heyyyy! Welcome to voting age! Are you going to be voting?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
Yes, unfortunately.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
It sounds like you're not too pumped about the election! What are your concerns?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
I hate both candidates.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
Could you please elaborate? What don't you like about the candidates? Also, were you by chance a Bernie supporter in the primaries?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
No. Ted Cruz. 
As for the two we have now..... I hate both of them. 
Trump is an egotistical, self-centered, contradictory dumbass....but I hate HER more!!!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
Okay, two questions: What do you hate about Hilary (are we talking email scandal or similar)? And what did you like about Ted Cruz?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
1. My Dad took me to see him when he visited my city, and I agreed with him on most things. I believe that we need to go back to the Constitution, and start from there.
2. Ah...Hillary...Hillary...Hillary... HILLARY. Well, for starters, I'm not going to put my EXACT feelings on her on here...I'm a figure in this fandom too...but the major,#1 reason why I hate her is that she is the figurehead of a corrupt government and the maker of her own political machine.
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
1. In what ways do you think we have gotten away from the Constitution? What do you think needs to be changed?
I ask this because--to be honest, I have a little trouble off the top of my head recalling what people mean when they say "go back to the Constitution". I have a knee-jerk reaction against it because, to me, "returning to how things were back in the day" means returning to a time before civil rights, before women's rights, before gay rights. Being a bisexual woman of color, it would be very bad for me if those rights went away!
2. Why do you think the government is corrupt?
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
1. When people say "Go back to the Constitution" what they're talking about is the overreaching power of the government. For example, there shouldn't be a department of education because education is supposed to be in the hands of the state. 
2. Politicians just don't care about the people who voted for them anymore. I'm sick and tired of politicans being bought out by lobiests and even other countries who hate us! They rarely ever keep their promises!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
1. Wow! Okay, cool. That's . . . honestly a more extreme definition of "going back to the constitution" than I was expecting. It is my general understanding that most people are cool with the Department of Education. The first time I ever heard it mentioned as a negative was in an offhand comment by Gary Johnson.
What is your objection to having a federal Department of Education? What is this department doing specifically that you don't like? It sounds like a "states' rights" thing to me but I would like to hear your opinion.
2. That is a legitimate grievance! But like . . . here's the thing. Politics has always been messy and weird and complicated. And I imagine, especially coming in as a first-time voter, it's kind of a big shock to find out about lobbyists and scandals and all that nasty stuff. I'm sure it can totally seem like everything sucks and like, why even bother?
But even despite all these bad things, change is possible, you know? I mean heck, gay marriage was legalized JUST LAST YEAR. Good things can come about, you just have to be willing to fight for them. Probably for a long time.
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
1. I was using it as an example.Other departments have issues too, like the NSA. And yes, it is a states rights thing. While we should be united, I think that each state is unique, and be different. Each state is made up of people who have different views.
2. Trust me, I've known about this stuff for YEARS. I used to be obsessed with politics, and it is one of the reasons why I have my depression. Hearing more and more about how the people we trusted to take care of us, were betraying us.
Do you really believe that putting in more people like her will make things better? That putting in yet another corrupt offical, who has been shown to be corrupt, will fix anything?
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Sabrina Cotugno  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago • edited
1. No one is arguing that states shouldn't have control over certain things! I'm certainly not saying that. I'm just not psyched about dismantling entire branches of the federal government, especially when, historically speaking, the laws of certain states have not always equally protected their citizens (i.e. school segregation, which is still a thing).
2. I actually do believe that putting more people like Hillary--people with a huge amount of experience, who are policy wonks, who are good listeners, who have a history of making connections both within their own party AND across the aisle--could make things better!
Is that a guarantee? Of course not, because the president is not the entire government (especially if their party does not control the legislative branch), and a lot of things that will affect their presidency are out of their control. Is Hillary perfect? No, no politician is perfect, and neither is any "outsider."
Honestly, I don't have much of a problem with Hillary. I am EXCITED to vote for her. And I hope you don't think I'm naive or stupid for feeling that way, because trust ME, I've done my research too.
Er, I could go on, but I didn't intend to start an argument over whose candidate is better. While I would be super interested to unpack the differences between our viewpoints--and I suspect there would be a whole lot of them--that isn't why I started this thread. I was just figuring on catching some disillusioned would-be-voters and getting them hyped to get to the polls. And real talk? I did not expect to meet a Republican on a forum for a comic that I wrote. So, uh, I learned that today! Hi, Republican reader! I am waving to you from the other side of the aisle!
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
Hey there! Allow me to link hands with both of you! I'm a registered Independent and am one of those notorious "swing voters" they're always talking about on TV. I've also been tasked with moderating political discussions in a classroom setting from time to time, so if I can help y'all in any way, I'd be happy to! :)
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
Oh wow! A real swing voter! I've heard so much about you! Are you also in one of those notorious swing STATES, as well? If so, man, yours is a very coveted vote!
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
No, not in a swing state, unfortunately, but at least my votes on other (non-presidential) candidates have a good chance of affecting the outcome, be it in Congress or at the state or local level.
Re: being a swing voter: I live in a "blue" city within a "red" state, and have friends and family on both sides of the aisle. My parents come from differing cultures, and folks in my family have rather strong personalities, so it's no mystery that I wound up being not only the family mediator but (briefly) a professional one as well (before health problems). I see so many sides to all the issues, and understand why people would think the way they do about them! Given all that, it's entirely unsurprising that I came up "Centrist" on that first quiz. I'd describe my own political stance as "purple" rather than "red" or "blue".
I'm also very passionate about our right (& responsibility) to participate in the political process, and am absolutely thrilled you're drawing attention to the topic here!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
So the state itself is a red state? I ask for clarification because I know there are some states that swing blue purely on the basis of their large cities (actually that . . . might describe a lot of places. it even describes California to some extent).
I am also the family mediator! Sort of. Actually, I'm gradually realizing that I am incredibly afraid of confrontation, so I'm really terrible at actually resolving conflicts. So what I really am is the person in the family who has anxiety and gets really upset that we can't all just have civil conversations with each other. Nation-wide polarization freaks me out, in part, because it's a super extreme version of the political divide I see in my family.
I'm not 100% sure what I identify as personally, but especially in the wake of Trump's campaign I'm feeling more and more aligned with the elusive "religious left." This puts me in a super awkward position because, while I generally agree with my liberal friends, I occasionally have to grit my teeth when they make sweeping generalizations about religious people. And it makes it especially hard to listen to Republican evangelicals who talk as if all Christians want the same thing. I'm just generally uncomfortable! :D
My confession is that, while I always remembered to vote in the presidential elections, I didn't realize the importance of all the OTHER elections until, like, this year, and I've probably forgotten to vote sometimes. I know better now! XD I'm glad you appreciate my meager efforts to spread the word on the small social platform that I have.
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chatterghosts  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
I, too, exist as the family mediator! An ... unfortunately anxious one, but still. You break out the tears and people shut up, amIriiiiight?
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
Yup, it's a red state. Here's a hint: I once got to meet our senator, Mitch McConnell. It was an enlightening moment; I'd had a somewhat decent opinion of him up until I actually met and interacted with the man. (Boy, had I been wrong! :P)
That was totally me! I found mediation training helped immensely in my own family situation! Additionally, as the years have passed, I've learned to better distance myself from conflicts that I have no hope of solving. Still, I agree with you about the nationwide polarization. That's very insightful! It's probably one of the reasons I find it alarming as well. I mean, we're all Americans, we're all committed to the democratic process; it doesn't serve either side well to demonize the other!
I'm more liberal on some issues and more conservative on others, but I have a deep-seated commitment to religious tolerance and freedom of religion. I have found myself in similar situations to what you describe. I was raised Presbyterian, and have studied religion (and different religions) extensively, but I don't wear my religion on my sleeve. There's so much variety even within a single sect; it burns me up when people try to generalize about Christians or act like we all want the same thing or will take the same position on any given issue! I had a Wiccan friend once tell me "You're not Christian." I obviously begged to differ. It turns out she had only ever encountered a particular, proselytizing sect of Christianity that happened to be very prevalent in her neighborhood. The fact that I didn't try to cram my beliefs down her throat/try to convert her meant, in her mind, that I apparently wasn't "Christian." Oy!
You're 100% right about the importance of the other offices up for grabs in this election! Even the President will have his or her powers limited by Congress (or, in extreme cases, the Judiciary).
I find it heartening whenever any citizen gets involved to spread awareness about the importance of exercising our right to participate in the political process, especially one like you whom I respect so much and who is reaching out to young voters!
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Mysterious Gamer  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
that's right! here all the politicians are corrupted (like, the last president stole all the money of the state and much other things, and the people? they all love her!)
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
F*** YES!!! XD
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
The year I finally get to vote...
And it's not about who America likes more...
But who America HATES more!!
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
Agreed! This election cycle is just awful! I know my dad is voting for a third party candidate and my mom is coming to me for election advice (I told her "not trump" ) If I was voting I probably try to look at Hilary's and the other third party candidate's platforms more...that or just vote for Cthulhu because that is the greatest evil of all right there. *sigh* Yah it's all everyone talks about at school and I'm just sick of it...there's so many "Make [insert my school name] Great Again" hats floating around...*continuously bangs head into table in frustration*
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Mz.Hyde Mod  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Cthulhu 2016!
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Mz.Hyde • 3 years ago
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Jekyll1886  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Love it!
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Helen Jekyll • 3 years ago
I'm underaged but I still try and watch the debates when I can, which is almost never due to school work and fall exams approaching.
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Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Unfortunately I am not old enough to vote. :P But I'm also happy about this because this whole election cycle has been just awful!
I don't like Trump (or as John Oliver says Drumpf ) because 1) his goals are unrealistic 2) he's not presidential or formal at all (I mean just look at his Gettysburg address where he talked about how he's going to sue all the women who are saying he rapped them) and 3) He doesn't have any real policies or has a formal plan!!
As for Hilary I can get around the whole robot thing but I really need to look into her platform more to form an opinion. She clearly knows how to navigate the government (from her infinite years working it) but I really just need to do more research on her stances. And it doesn't help that all the media seems to be covering is the latest scandal from Trump or Hilary that seems to happen EVERY SINGLE WEEK!! This election just feels like popstars magazines took over the news network to bring just "juicy" coverage on the latest outrage.
I honestly have been trying to stay out of this $hit storm the past couple months because it's exhausting, frustrating, emotional, and it really just makes me disappointed with america. Also it's a very passionate subject and can easily start emotional unhealthy debates between people which just degrades to name calling and childish insults. If I was voting this year I would probably pay more attention to the candidates platforms and third party candidates like Johnson and Stein but as I'm not I'm just trying to restrain myself from banging my head into a wall or other object out of anger and frustration. My plan (more or less) is to move to Canada if Trump wins because it's very terrifying how much like Hitler he is.
Sorry for the political rant it's just been one heck of a year where that's all anyone talks about...*sigh*
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Sabrina Cotugno  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Aww, don't feel disappointed with America! :( America is where all the hamburgers are! Hamburgers are delicious!
Seriously, though, I understand feeling burned out on this election. I think MOST of the country is with you on that. What I suggest to combat that burned-out feeling is to study history--it's much easier to see the gradual tide of progress over a longer period of time. It's actually why I love the Victorian era so much. Look, I may love Jekyll and Hyde, but there is no way I would want to go back and live in the 1880s. Or the 1920s. Or the 1950s. Hell, I wouldn't want to go back to the early 2000s, when Bush first tried to push DOMA! And so on and so forth.
We have achieved so so so so much in such a short period of time. But it was and always always has been a struggle, and it's exhausting. It's okay to take breaks from politics, just remember to pay attention when it matters.
Also?? I would like to plug the NPR Politics podcast, if you want to stay educated on politics without becoming SUPER DEPRESSED. The hosts are all really fun to listen to and try to be as non-partisan as possible. I have learned sooooo much from talking to these guys and honestly I want to do fanart of them. http://www.npr.org/podcasts...
Also, couple of arguments! It's not so much that new scandals of Trump and Hilary are dropping every week--what's actually happening is that TRUMP has a new scandal every week and Hilary has the SAME scandal every week. This, specifically, is her so-called "email scandal" which the Trump campaign has been using--almost exclusively--to smear her as "untrustworthy."
What is this important scandal? Once upon a time, Hilary wanted to check her emails at home so she set up a private server in her house. But because this server was not set up by the government, it was not as secure as most government servers are, and some emails may have been leaked. We're not sure if anything dangerous was ever leaked, but the FBI concluded months ago that there was no grounds to charge her of any wrongdoing.
(In last week's FBI drama, the FBI announced that they found some more emails that had, at one time, passed through Hilary's server. There is no evidence that these emails were important in any way--they could have been emails of cat videos for all we know. It was really weird that the FBI released this non-information to the public at all, and frankly it was kinda shady of them.)
TL;DR--the BIGGEST SCANDAL of Hilary Clinton's campaign can be boiled down to: She's a grandma who doesn't understand how to use emails so good. And for this, Trump threatened to THROW HER IN JAIL. In a NATIONAL DEBATE.
Also! You mentioned John Oliver, did you see his segment overviewing the third party candidates? I recommend it if you have not!
Voting for third party candidates can be a good idea on a local or (maybe) state level! But as of right now it's not a good idea to vote third party for a presidential election. Why? Because basically, getting a majority of the ENTIRE COUNTRY to vote for one candidate takes massive amounts of work. And right now, the only two parties well established enough to do that work are the Democratic and Republican parties. This may change in the future, but right now, both Gary Johnson and Jill Stein have absolutely zero chance of winning this election. That's probably why you haven't heard much about them!
Third party candidates do, however, pose a very serious threat in a different way. They can "split the vote". Jill Stein herself will never be elected in this election, but she WILL take away Democratic voters who would otherwise have voted for Hilary. (Donald Trump is unlikely to lose votes this way, as Republicans are generally better at rallying together behind their nominee, and they know about the dangers of splitting the vote.)
So.... yeah! My recommendation is, it's a great idea to look more into the candidates' platforms, but I wouldn't stress too much about looking into third party candidates, at least for the presidential office.
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
You make very good points re: the third-party candidates! I remember the 2000 election (though I certainly couldn't vote then) and how the Green Party candidate (Ralph Nader, I believe) took just a couple of percentage points of the vote away from Gore, making the race so tight the Supreme Court had to step in to decide who would be President.
Whichever side people may be on this election cycle, I implore everyone not to throw their votes away! Make them count!
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I wouldn't count voting for a third party throwing away a vote as it still affects the election and I do believe that people should vote for who they want in office, I just want them to be aware of the impact that voting for a third party candidate can have on the election. I think the only way one could throw away their vote is if they "jokingly" voted for a person they hated or didn't vote at all not out of protest or as a statement or because they couldn't get to a voting booth but because they didn't feel like it and were lazy.
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Jekyll1886  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Ah. Perhaps I was not as specific as I should have been. It's just that, at the higher-office levels (e.g. president), voting for a third party candidate that is more in line with one's own views can actually contribute to a major-party candidate with views very much opposite of one's own coming to win against the other major-party candidate who may've possessed views at least somewhat similar to one's own. I simply wanted to point out that risk. That's all I meant by "throwing [one's] vote away".
I can be a little prone to hyperbole in my expressions, often simply for emphasis or (sometimes) comedic effect. Don't take me seriously, anyone. I'm prone to generalities as well, though not sweeping generalizations. I'm also really not a detail person, so chances are that, whatever I say, I don't mean it literally. You have my apologies; I never meant to imply that voting for a third-party candidate automatically = one has definitely wasted one's vote. And I totally agree that a third-party vote affects the election...that's what I was trying to say. The key question is: How/in what manner/with what ramifications will it affect it?
I myself have voted for third-party candidates before--in local elections. One actually came very close to being our mayor! I wish he'd won outright, but at least it's progress...
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I think it was a bit of miscommunication on both our ends so don't worry about it! Where I live when people say "throwing [one's] vote away" they usually say it with contempt and bitterness. It can get very passionate here, as it does with many elections, and I didn't want anyone voting for a third party to feel that their vote didn't count because it does! I'll often hear many passionate voters yelling at third party voters and how they're "throwing their vote and the election away" along with other bits about how they're traitors to the party or letting the other side win, etc.
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Jekyll1886  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Oh, wow! People where I live tend to say it in an at least half-joking manner (if they say it at all); I had no idea the way it could come across in text! Thanks for letting me know. The people where you live actually yell at the third-party voters? That's uncalled for! Where I voted, no one even mentioned whom they were voting for, that's how WASPy everyone is. (Mustn't ruffle any feathers!)
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
Yah...Where I live people use that saying as an insult more than anything...or at least that's how I've heard it the most though it is use jokingly sometimes too. My dad got yelled at (in all caps) about voting for a third party on facebook by an acquaintance of an acquaintance so it does happen. :P
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Jekyll1886  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Boo...why do some people gotta be so rude? :P My condolences to your dad; nobody needs that. :(
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
It's a high strung, passionate time and harsh words are bound to be exchanged even if I wish they weren't. :P Oh well at least today is the last day for this tomfoolery!
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Jekyll1886  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Thank goodness!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I can confirm there is a LOT of anger at third-party voters on Facebook today.
I mean. Facebook is never a good place for nuanced political discussion, and getting yelled at on the Internet is never a good thing. On the other hand, I have felt the frustration that comes from having to explain over and over again the same arguments about things like third-party candidates. You can even hear that low-key exhaustion from the hosts at NPR Politics, a generally very chipper show, when they are continually bombarded by emails asking them to talk more about Johnson or Stein when they have already explained their professional opinions about third party candidates many times before.
Not to mention that the numbers out of places like Florida could easily paint a pretty villainous picture of Johnson and his voters. (Um, but on the other, other hand, there are some arguments that his voters were NOT responsible for losing those states.... it's complicated and weird).
I dunno! Of course I want less yelling on the Internet and I want people to be able to discuss politics in a civil way. But what do you do about the gradual build-up of frustration and exhaustion that comes from having all of those polite and civil talks?
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
I have no good answer for you.
I try to stay out of politics on Facebook, as I've watched loved ones do that only to have relationships with friends and relatives sour. Still, I understand well (and share) your and the NPR staff's frustration, be it about third parties or politics in general.
I've remained polite and reasonable and even (when required) neutral all through this election. And, you're absolutely right, it does take its toll. It's now the day after, and the only place I can safely express my immense frustration at all is here, to you (if you'll indulge me), on this forum, in milder terms than the ones running through my mind. I know what would relieve it, but taking my cane to the president-elect's head would obviously be neither a civilized nor a realistic option, and, moreover, is simply not done. Therefore, I'm going to pour my energy into better organizing for the next election, as well as working on some ongoing personal creative projects--perhaps the latter can at least lend some small sense of accomplishment. I'm half sick, but am going to make myself go for a long walk, maybe take my dog to the dog park--I can't sit here any longer; I'm nearly beside myself! If I still don't feel better, there's always booze, tea, and self-inflicted debauchery to fall back on. And the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow--I keep having to remind myself of that, and that "the arc of the moral universe is long," etc.
Today feels like the lonely day after a funeral.
(I'm sorry to become emotional on here, and hope it isn't too much of an imposition. I hope you and everyone else on here have as good a day as possible.)
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I'm going to second you on that one--actually, I'm going to go a bit harsher! A LOT of people do believe that voting third party--at the national level--is "throwing your vote away." That's largely because no third party candidate has ever successfully run for president, or has ever come close. True, they have in the past won enough votes for people to sit up and notice, but even if they are running for good reasons, in practice all their campaigns ever seem to do is to take away votes from a major party candidate, making them weaker against their opponent. A vote for Jill Stein is not EXACTLY as bad as a vote for Trump, but it's sure helping him to get elected.
In theory I can understand the idea that a person should vote for the person they genuinely love the most. But that's just not the reality of the political landscape that we live in. We CAN put in the slow, hard work of building up a third party to have true, solid support (i.e., the local mayoral election that Jekyll1886 talked about) but you can't just skip to the end. The Republican and Democratic parties have centuries of history and base support to drawn upon--you can't expect a third party candidate to do the same thing over the course of a single election.
Also, I get that "voting your conscience" may make you feel better, but consider that you are putting your own feelings of discomfort above people who may seriously suffer--whose lives may even be in danger--because of the outcome of this election.
(You could argue that Trump, with his 0% political experience or connections, managed to get that level of support, but there's no way he could get to where he is now without the reluctant support of the Republican establishment and the RNC.)
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
^Truth.
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
I do like a good Hamburger.... yum!
You're are right in the fact we've come a long, long way in equal rights, knowledge, etc. and I've very proud of people for that fact but we still have a long way to go. I've actually taken an AP US History course and an AP US Government course which does help me appreciate how far we've come but it also reminds me how far we still need to go. It's a win/lose situation. :\ I do enjoy going back and reading literature from the different periods to see how far we've come as people (such as the early Victorian literature era where sexism, racism, and many other "-isms" were present) but it's also really disheartening when you see these problems, that we believed were dealt with, pop up again in modern society. I know I wouldn't like to go back to those time periods either (but I can always romanticize some of the more agreeable aspects of those time periods. [ex: fashion, architecture, literature themes]) and I'm very proud of how far we've come but I always feel like it's an up hill battle that we just can't ever seem to win. I just get tired of the struggle, I guess.
I actually do listen to NPR, BBC World, POTUS, and John Oliver for most of my news information. I would love to see a fanart of the NPR cast and crew as I, actually, grew up on NPR, as that's what is most often being listened to in the car rides when I was little. I did enjoy hearing their opinions but as I got older I learned that many news sources have a bias and finding an unbiased news source is impossible. I do try to listen to either news sources with both view points on them which does help with that. And then I just listen to John Oliver because that man it hilarious! (and yes I LOVED his video on third party candidates! have you seen his video on the election scandals and how he compares them to cookies and raisins? Here's a link if you haven't:
)
I understand that if we compare the scandals and other issues that the two have had it's along the lines of Hilary: ~10 and Trump: 1.0x10^500 but I just got really annoyed when it was every week a new scandal would come out from one of the two sides. [I actually kept track of it and it was a one week span before someone did something stupid]. I honestly try to ignore most of the social scandals as being president is a job and I would like the candidates to keep it professional. I understand that Hilary didn't really know how to use email and instead decided to use an old server that her husband used when he was in office but that's still a pretty big problem. With the fact that these emails could be hacked our national security would be in danger and such. It's was not a classy move on her end. And it doesn't help that Russia has been hacking us and messing with the election. [not saying Russia is bad but this is a huge problem when we're talking about international diplomacy. Not cool Russia. Not cool.] On the other hand we have Trump...I really, really do try to ignore the social scandals he's involved...*develops involuntary eye twitch*. But he doesn't know how politics work as it's not the same as running a business, he's fear mongering something fierce, his policies are reasonable at all (and they keep changing with the weather), he has no logical way to enact his ideas, and on top of all of that his campaign is scarcely close to Hitler's rise to power.
As for the debates they are unprofessional, unproductive, and frankly I'm really just disappointed (mainly by Trump). I could continue to rant about the debates but this reply is getting super lengthy already.
Third Party candidates are very interesting! We actually spent a long time in class learning about third parties and why they never win. Most of the time the other parties (the larger parties) will absorb the smaller parties which is why we are mainly a bipartisan nation. Also Third party candidates have NEVER won but they do play an interesting role in the election. Third party candidates in the past have split the votes of one of the larger parties, they also can raise issues that other may not have thought of, and they can impact the final out come of the election. We don't hear much about them, as you said, they have absolutely zero chance of winning, but also the bigger news outlets like Fox and CNN try to focus on just the main two candidates so they don't lose votes to the third party candidates.
Thank you for the recommendation! I do need to look more into the plat forms but I can guarantee you this that if it was between Hilary and Trump (baring the third party candidates) I would vote for Hilary because I have SO many problems with Trump's platform.
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chatterghosts • 3 years ago • edited
I don't have too big an interest in politics, but holy crap, the 2016 election cycle has been an experience.
My dad never votes, and my mother's voting for Trump, which creates a bit of a hectic spot - I'm trapped between radio silence and loud yelling from my mom to pick a side.
I don't support Trump, in any way, though! His opinions are super-mega-ultra garbage. Were I not utterly spineless, I'd shoot for the lesser of two evils (who also happens to be the only one with realistic policies, and has background in their field): Hillary. I would vote third party, but they have basically no chance at winning the election, and a vote for them is a vote not for Hillary, which is bad enough as is; I really, really don't want Trump in office.
All this stuff has me pretty burnt out, but I'm trying to stay engaged and interested in other parts of history - can't have my political interest getting smothered, however small it may be.
Though, I'm also not old enough to vote. Not yet, anyways.
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Jekyll1886  chatterghosts • 3 years ago • edited
Oh dear. I have one parent who's voting for Donald Trump and one who's voting for Hillary Clinton, so I hear you about the kinda-hectic home situation. (I can tell who's been watching the TV last by whether it's been left on Fox News or on MSNBC. [I watch BBC World news or listen to NPR.])
I've told each of them (in more diplomatic terms) that people fought and died for us to have both the right to vote and the right to privacy, and that, as the secret ballot is a cornerstone of democracy, I'm going to exercise my right not to disclose who I'm voting for!
I wish you the best of luck on the "home" front. Hang in there!
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
I'm kinda surprised how many people on this thread have reported that at least one parent is voting for Trump!
I also live in a one-Democrat, one-Republican parent family, but it's rarely a source of (open) conflict because, uh, it seems to be family policy that we just never ever talk about things we don't 100% agree on.
There was one time this year when mom cornered me and asked who I was voting for (in the primaries--I voted for Bernie). I probably had the option to put my foot down and defend my right to privacy but I am a terrible, terrible keeper of secrets and I got the guiltiest damn look on my face and gave myself away. XD
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Jekyll1886  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
It's funny: My mom, who started out a Republican when she moved here from South Carolina, is the one voting for Hillary, while my Dad, who was registered a Democrat when he got his citizenship, is the one voting for Trump! They're both pretty extroverted, to be honest. *shakes head and remains Switzerland.*
Oh, the mom questioning. Yeah, it's hard to keep secrets from the parentals. Especially if you get the "mom look". XD I'm very, very lucky I'm so introverted...
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chatterghosts  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago
I live in a family with very loud, very 'will punch you if your views don't line up with mine' people. Which is why we never all actually get together (including my nuclear family) : no one knows how to shut up about their political views and someone will get smacked.
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Hyde without a Jekyll  chatterghosts • 3 years ago
I understand that! My mother is very conservative and is a republican (she ALWAYS votes for republicans) while my father tends to be more centered and I'm more left leaning. It's a very interesting dynamic but we do have a list of issues that are to never come up or the rest of the night will be filled with arguments.
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chatterghosts  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
Ahaha, thanks!
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Sabrina Cotugno  chatterghosts • 3 years ago
This is very interesting! I have some follow-up questions, if you feel like answering. I'm just super curious because I live in California, and the few Trump supporters that live here.... generally don't announce their presence. (Doesn't mean they can't still pack a punch, though--they got gay marriage banned in 2008.)
What state do you live in? And uh, what does your mom see in Trump? I'm really curious because Trump's been having a really hard time hanging onto women voters after the whole "Pu**ygate" thing. I could understand a staunch Republican holding her nose and reluctantly voting for Trump, but I genuinely have a difficult time imagining how a woman could loudly defend the guy after that (and all the other super gross things he's said and done to women).
In any case, it super sucks that your mom is pressuring you into picking a side (especially when you're not even old enough to vote, wtf). It's your legal right to vote the way you want to without being pressured or bullied into changing your ballot!
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chatterghosts  Sabrina Cotugno • 3 years ago • edited
I live in a red state, which has just as many Trump supporters as you would expect it to. As for my mom, I honestly have no idea. She's taken most of the stuff Trump has said and done thus far in a pretty humorous light, which is actually a bit ridiculous. She doesn't like him as a person, I don't think, but she supports his political views.
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Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
Wow, a surprising amount of people (who responded to this) are under 18! I thought you guys would be older XP
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Hyde without a Jekyll  Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
Well I know we do have older people on here but they either may A) not live in the US B) may not be on here right now and might not have posted yet and C) I know that I can't vote yet which makes me ever more...frustrated/emotional/things about this election so I'm taking the opportunity to discuss it here.
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Elaina Hyde  Hyde without a Jekyll • 3 years ago
Mhm
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Sabrina Cotugno  Elaina Hyde • 3 years ago
I'm not TOO surprised--most people from the age poll here responded that they were under 18. I also suspect that the majority of people who post here most often are in highschool or similar, because they tend to have more time to post on online communities (unless that's changed since I was in highschool). That's my guess, anyway! I haven't roleplayed in years (and I never did it in a group or forum setting) so these are kind of distant observations.
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Anchestor • 3 years ago
Any other people not from US who are scared how this train wreck of an election goes down?
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Anchestor • 3 years ago • edited
For those apathetic about voting: may I have eight minutes of you time? For I'd like to share some points about reasons not to vote. Instead of just ripping off creators superior to me, I'll recommend you watch these two videos. Both are less than 4 minutes.
https://youtu.be/vwn1ZKXD3pE
This one is from 2012, but the points are still valid. There is some information overlapping, but there is an excellent explanation at 0:47. So at least check that bit out.
https://youtu.be/bOp0lpXtqN4
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Sabrina Cotugno  Anchestor • 3 years ago
These guys are great! Love these videos.
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Hastie Lanyon • 3 years ago
I will not be voting as I am not actually a citizen of the US (nor have I ever even come close to travelling to America), but if I were... I would like to say that Hillary is the lesser of two evils, but I am not completely certain that she is.
I need not spoil words talking about Trump, because his idiocy is plain to see, but I can't stand the corruption that clings to Hillary like a cloak. The emails, massive companies buying her with money for the campain (like Wall Street), the rigged election of the democratic candidate... Bernie made me believe that there was good in this world; that we need not be ruled by the upper class that do not care for middle/working class families. But then People happened.
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Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
By the way, here are two useful quizzes to see where you personally fall on the political spectrum. Unfortunately, I haven't found quiz results for either presidential candidate. (If only!)
Short quiz:
https://www.theadvocates.or...
Slightly longer quiz:
http://www.abtirsi.com/quiz...
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Sabrina Cotugno  Jekyll1886 • 3 years ago
This is a very interesting test! I had a hard time answering quite a few questions because they covered such a broad subject and asked for a simple Yes/No answer. I ended up getting pretty drastically different answers between the two, since the second one allowed for a wider range of subjects (also more social issues, which I tend to have stronger opinions about).
Even on that one though, I have to wonder if ANYONE really does hold some of the views they mention, notably the one that was like, "I think there should be one world government." Like . . . what?? Are there real life people who want to do that? Isn't that whole "new world order/world government" thing just a conspiracy? Like, a vaguely anti-Semitic conspiracy?
If someone answers yes to that question, I will be less upset about being ruled by secret international bankers than having to admit that my awful conspiracy theorist ex was right about something.
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