100501-reason-20-man-raid-attunement-is-a-bad-right-now

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Hello guys im a officer of a 5/6 guild right now and we are killing ohmna tomorrow and well im just here to discuss this problem we have right now.
 
 
 
The thing is dominion on most EU servers are low populated EXCEPT For 2 servers(French one and Hazak PVP).
 
 
We are currently based on Ascencandy EU and well lets say there is a big imbalance in population this causes alot of problems with our raiding and well people keep transfering or reroll or quiting and its getting even more annoying because the "Pool of attuned people to GA" is getting VERY SMALLER on our server i think there is like 20 people or something that i know that is attuned but is in a casual guild and wanted to join us but they couldnt join cuz of our raid times and i know thats too bad.
 
But its pretty annoying that we have run and run run runr urnrurnrurnrun over and over and over and oveeeeeeeeeeeeer in silver dungeons and other crap for their attunement.
 
 
Reason i was fine with this in WoW was because MC / BWL attunements was very easy and Onyxia was okey we could do it in a day of just doing it. AQ40 was server wide so ye .. and naxx was pretty easy to get attunee to farm rep to Argent dawn and get some mats prepared.
 
 
The thing is its just that we dont wanna keep attune people over and over to keep going because it gets so boring and reapitive AND ITS NOT HARDCORe its a grindfest.
 
The attuned people on our server is getting lower because people wants to play Hazak dominion because they will have a bigger chance to raid in any guild there then us because at this rate we will never ever ever everrrrrrrrrrrr see 40 man raids.
 
 
 
Im pleading to you carbine as a officer of my guild and all my members and probly alot of other people that has the same mindset about this.
 
 
And one more thing i dont think the attunement is hard but its just annoying when we have to recruit none attune people.	
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Attunement is, to me, the single biggest mistake and least rational thing Carbine has done with this game. Not only is it very, very tedious, it does a pretty poor job of 'training' people for raids. 90% of the attunement has nothing to do with the content you'll see while raiding (silver dungeons maybe being the exception, but then, you won't have a timer when you're in a raid). It's just a gate grind.
 
I'd love to hear some reasonable explanation for why they included this, other than WoW nostalgia, which is like... why would you even go there?
 
If Carbine had actually let guilds access the raid faster, they'd have more people talking about the *real* content, fewer guilds struggling with recruitment, and fewer friends sighing because they're on different parts of a long, boring chain.
 
I just can't hate on attunement enough, really. It's a big fat discouraging time sink. :rolleyes:	
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Carbine knew all this before release
Carbine was told all this before release.
Carbine's response was something like we know its hard, we know its not accessible, that's the point.	
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			Why does your guild keep transfering? Is it because you transfer once a week? :P	
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Carbine knew all this before release
Carbine was told all this before release.
Carbine's response was something like we know its hard, we know its not accessible, that's the point.
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			I generally support attunement, but i prefer it to be something that can be done solo & act as a little speed bump to get prepared.	
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Hello guys im a officer of a 5/6 guild right now and we are killing ohmna tomorrow and well im just here to discuss this problem we have right now.
 
 
 
The thing is dominion on most EU servers are low populated EXCEPT For 2 servers(French one and Hazak PVP).
 
 
We are currently based on Ascencandy EU and well lets say there is a big imbalance in population this causes alot of problems with our raiding and well people keep transfering or reroll or quiting and its getting even more annoying because the "Pool of attuned people to GA" is getting VERY SMALLER on our server i think there is like 20 people or something that i know that is attuned but is in a casual guild and wanted to join us but they couldnt join cuz of our raid times and i know thats too bad.
 
But its pretty annoying that we have run and run run runr urnrurnrurnrun over and over and over and oveeeeeeeeeeeeer in silver dungeons and other crap for their attunement.
 
 
Reason i was fine with this in WoW was because MC / BWL attunements was very easy and Onyxia was okey we could do it in a day of just doing it. AQ40 was server wide so ye .. and naxx was pretty easy to get attunee to farm rep to Argent dawn and get some mats prepared.
 
 
The thing is its just that we dont wanna keep attune people over and over to keep going because it gets so boring and reapitive AND ITS NOT HARDCORe its a grindfest.
 
The attuned people on our server is getting lower because people wants to play Hazak dominion because they will have a bigger chance to raid in any guild there then us because at this rate we will never ever ever everrrrrrrrrrrr see 40 man raids.
 
 
 
Im pleading to you carbine as a officer of my guild and all my members and probly alot of other people that has the same mindset about this.
 
 
And one more thing i dont think the attunement is hard but its just annoying when we have to recruit none attune people.
 
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When they talked about the attunement in beta I thought we would do something epic/great instead of a list of chores to go through.
 
I can live with what we have now, it's just stuff you will do in the game anyway (you will get the rep automatically and adventures and dungeons you will run as well and worldbosses you probably will do as well, so yeah, attunement wise that works for a launch game).
 
I just hope that the next time/next raid will have a truly epic attunement. Maybe like a server wide event. I still think the AQ40 event/attunement was still the best. The whole server had to work to unlock the raid. Now, THAT is, IMHO, awesome.
 
It's a race against the clock for the server to unlock the raid and then the best guilds need to beat the content asap for a world first. That is epic.
 
This list of chores, is not.
 
In any case, this attunement could prove to be a issue later down the raid for people joining late and wanting to go raid with the guild.	
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			The entire discussion boils down to the fact that tedium =/= difficulty.  Seems like Carbine misunderstood this.  As someone else said: "They were so focused on making sure the actual dungeons and raids were challenging that they forgot to make the rest of the game fun."  	
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I'm currently in a guild that's inside GA with 25+ people on Contagion EU, granted we are only 1/6, but since this is attunement talk that should hardly matter.
 
I personally think the attunement is absolutely fine, and I actually really like it. I never found it tedious, hard, or anything of the sort. My guild is generally of the same opinion. World Bosses, no problem. Adventures, no problem. Dungeons, few problems, but not really. Most if not all of my guild members have only really complained about the Beloved with faction part being grindy, the rest of the steps, not so much.
 
Anyways to point out the three steps of the attunement that is generally considered the most annoying or tedious,
 
Adventures: Easily pug-able, there really shouldn't be any complaining here
 
Dungeons: For us getting 1 or 2 people through a couple of dungeons a day was never an issue. We'd use our guild website, keep track of peoples progress and help them out, not carry them, but help them.
 
World Bosses: At least on contagion this one is not something you can just wait for the server to randomly do. You have to get your guild together and dedicate about 3 hours and you're done. We did it this way; decided on a date, consider it like any raid day, and get them all done (we had 23 people first day we did it). Bam we are ready to raid. Okay so a few people missed out on it, or a few people are still on dungeons, well no problem. As soon as 3-4 new people were on the world bosses part, we'd set up a new date to get those through. Everyone chips in, everyone is happy, and it also helps to boost guild morale. So win/win in my opinion.	
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For me, 2/6, it was not hard really hard... but "something" to do before I can start raiding. Sometimes / most of the times, if felt pretty unnecessary and useless, sometimes / rarely, it was fun. Worldbosses were ok to do, whereas dungeons sucked a little.
 
Do I need the attunement? No, I know what to do in raids. Can I assume that (other) players think and act this way? No, that is why the attunement and some steps may are eligible to do but definitely not all of them.	
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I'm currently in a guild that's inside GA with 25+ people on Contagion EU, granted we are only 1/6, but since this is attunement talk that should hardly matter.
 
I personally think the attunement is absolutely fine, and I actually really like it. I never found it tedious, hard, or anything of the sort. My guild is generally of the same opinion. World Bosses, no problem. Adventures, no problem. Dungeons, few problems, but not really. Most if not all of my guild members have only really complained about the Beloved with faction part being grindy, the rest of the steps, not so much.
 
Anyways to point out the three steps of the attunement that is generally considered the most annoying or tedious,
 
Adventures: Easily pug-able, there really shouldn't be any complaining here
 
Dungeons: For us getting 1 or 2 people through a couple of dungeons a day was never an issue. We'd use our guild website, keep track of peoples progress and help them out, not carry them, but help them.
 
World Bosses: At least on contagion this one is not something you can just wait for the server to randomly do. You have to get your guild together and dedicate about 3 hours and you're done. We did it this way; decided on a date, consider it like any raid day, and get them all done (we had 23 people first day we did it). Bam we are ready to raid. Okay so a few people missed out on it, or a few people are still on dungeons, well no problem. As soon as 3-4 new people were on the world bosses part, we'd set up a new date to get those through. Everyone chips in, everyone is happy, and it also helps to boost guild morale. So win/win in my opinion.
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Well im just saying is that we have to "GO BACK and re-attune people over and over" .. make it puggable in dungeons with this attunement quest and i got no problems with it ... right now only the adventure part is puggable .. so ye
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			Silver adventures and bronze dungeons would have been plenty for attunement. The time limit has less to do with having lots of dps and more to do with knowing all the shortcuts. You can have amazing dps in SSM and still not make the timer if you don't know the shortcuts and all the ways to save time.	
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10 man raids.
 
problem solved
 
/yw	
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10 man raids.
 
problem solved
 
/yw
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			I recently decided to re-roll to Hazak-EU due to how unfortunately low the Dominion population on Ascendancy-EU is and it is only going to get worse.	
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Basically what Snitzel is saying is that the road block to fill gaps in a raid of people leaving is huge and makes it a crippling grind for those already raiding to get new blood in as they have to back track all day long.
 
That he can see it happening from now and that it will only get worse.
 
To take out some of that back tracking grind to make it easier for guilds who want to raid, to be able to fill their roster without spending more time pre-raiding then raiding.
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5 man endgame content. Having 9 friends is overrated.
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I think you are looking at it the wrong way, and calling it back tracking puts a negative spin to something that can be positive to the guild overall. When you have to occasionally help someone out with attunement you just invited to the guild, you'll get a chance to play with them, evaluate them, and integrate them. 
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I think you are looking at it the wrong way, and calling it back tracking puts a negative spin to something that can be positive to the guild overall. When you have to occasionally help someone out with attunement you just invited to the guild, you'll get a chance to play with them, evaluate them, and integrate them. 
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Attunement should not have rep grind or world boss grind.. though the world boss grind was actually kind of fun and helped me meet oither players who were at the same level of progression i was. 
They should have just given bosses enrage timers to ensure that dps is high enough.. silver dungeons are such a grind	
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I think your living in fairyland or something.
Attuning new people for the guilds I know pretty much involves running swordmaiden themselves and switching the new guy in at the last second for silver because who wants to run that horrible piece of crap with anything less than a guaranteed silver. Especially when it's pretty much proven fact at this point being able to silver swordmaiden means jack all as far as ability to function in a raid is concerned.
 
and every other step outside of the dungeons is just tedium for the sake of eating up time.
Good attunement quests are like the solo missions you get to do between the group horrible grindy parts
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I guess we should be lucky Carbine didn't put in a 60/80 raid system into the game.
 
You know because ...hardcore....extreme..... /flex!	
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Attrition will always happen and the problem with such a boring and long attunement is that instead of taking new members through it, guilds will instead cannibalise each other.
 
(you'll have top 1 or 2 raiding guilds and then the middle ground guilds will go NOWHERE in their progression because their members will keep getting poached to fill holes in the top 2)
 
 
Saw it alllllll the time back in Wow.
 
 
Will happen here too.
 
 
LFM must have UBRS key.	
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I think you are looking at it the wrong way, and calling it back tracking puts a negative spin to something that can be positive to the guild overall. When you have to occasionally help someone out with attunement you just invited to the guild, you'll get a chance to play with them, evaluate them, and integrate them. 
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Well excuse me, for wanting to evaluate and see how people do in dungeons for myself. I'd much rather learn that someone invited to the guild is a bad player in the attunement phase, than in the middle of a raid..
 
PS: Wouldn't call it fairyland, I might just be more accepting of the current state of the game than others
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^ not in a progression guild.
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Attrition will always happen and the problem with such a boring and long attunement is that instead of taking new members through it, guilds will instead cannibalise each other.
 
(you'll have top 1 or 2 raiding guilds and then the middle ground guilds will go NOWHERE in their progression because their members will keep getting poached to fill holes in the top 2)
 
 
Saw it alllllll the time back in Wow.
 
 
Will happen here too.
 
 
LFM must have UBRS key.
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I'm sorry to inform you but getting to know guildies and running with them is apparently too old-school for people.
It's all online website applications and just jump in there and we'll see how much of your bragging actually pans out.
 
My take... if a guild sees helping out new recruits as a chore, they have two problems:
1. They're not very team oriented
2. They really don't enjoy the game all that much
 
This coming from someone who used to run with elitists in a game that was too hard-core to succeed (and other problems, but mainly way too hard to attract).
Not only that but a lot of us rerolled a new life for more power and every month had to be dragged all over again through hell dungeons to get our rep up and flag.
Our raid leader dragged us through the awful elite runs, I'm pretty sure he'd seen that stuff thousands of times and it never got any prettier taking a new person through there... But hey, that's how he found out if the new healer could heal well or not.  That's how he found out if the new build a guildie was making was good enough for raids.
 
If you don't like your guildies enough and the content enough to go do together... well that's just a shitty atmosphere.  
 
Maybe WildStar is hardcore in requiring you to actually be a team player.
 
My GM never gets tired of going into tough content even though I rage that "why is that fool in my party, he will DIE, gawd damn it, he will DIE!".  He's a GM, he knows how to make us want to put up with things until the new person learns their stuff.  That's skill.  Leading is a skill.  Maybe even an art.
 
It's late, waxing poetic now, dudes.
 
Point is... I get that you're frustrated with the system, but maybe you as a guild should have a system in place where the expectation is to help others grow and play with them, not just find another body to fill the 20 list. (talking to people in the thread, not the person I'm replying to)
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*poaches Tanka*
 
Didn't WoW get rid of attunements?  Why do they have issue with poaching then?
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The thing is my friend that recruting people that are not attuned is kinda annoying when u wanna focus on Ohmna ....... and u cant since u have to spend 4-5 days attuning people and then when ur done the next few people leave and u have to repeat -.-  it just get painful in the end and makes us quit the game.
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I'm actually more curious about -
If your guild is progressing nicely, seeing you are on Ohmna, why are your raiders leaving?
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Sorry if u see me saying the attunement is bad ... that i dont like recruiting people you dont seem you have gotten far in this game yet lol.
 
 
The thing is my friend that recruting people that are not attuned is kinda annoying when u wanna focus on Ohmna ....... and u cant since u have to spend 4-5 days attuning people and then when ur done the next few people leave and u have to repeat -.-  it just get painful in the end and makes us quit the game.
 
 
Right now me and the other officers and our guildmaster feel its not worth it almost anymore if they do open a transfer to Hazak we will move there but if they dont we probly end up quiting and most of us will go back to WoW for WoD .. some other people else were ... just saying attunement is a thing of the past and it was fine even the WoW attunements were more easy then this grindfest attunements
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When Blaizzard saw that only 2% of the players got to the end content in BC due to that awful attunement that lead to guild poaching left and right they learned from the mistake.
 
I think the Carbine team is too wrapped up in vanilla nostalgia to learn.
 
Soon enough the numbers will come out and the devs will decide if they want to put so much attention and resources into something that very few see.	
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Sorry if u see me saying the attunement is bad ... that i dont like recruiting people you dont seem you have gotten far in this game yet lol.
 
 
The thing is my friend that recruting people that are not attuned is kinda annoying when u wanna focus on Ohmna ....... and u cant since u have to spend 4-5 days attuning people and then when ur done the next few people leave and u have to repeat -.-  it just get painful in the end and makes us quit the game.
 
 
Right now me and the other officers and our guildmaster feel its not worth it almost anymore if they do open a transfer to Hazak we will move there but if they dont we probly end up quiting and most of us will go back to WoW for WoD .. some other people else were ... just saying attunement is a thing of the past and it was fine even the WoW attunements were more easy then this grindfest attunements
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I'm actually more curious about -
If your guild is progressing nicely, seeing you are on Ohmna, why are your raiders leaving?
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Why does it take you 4-5 days attuning people?
3/4 dungeons are not _that_ hard and pulling someone through SSM shouldn't be a huge issue with raid gear+experience.
Did you ever ask people why they leave? If you are doing Ohmna, it can't be the progress. How many guilds on Hazak killed Ohmna? Eugenic and Codex?
How many guilds are at 5/6 and recruiting? Looking at Wildstar progress only Eugenic and Codex R1+R2 killed Convergance. 6 different Phage Maw kills.
Who are they transfering to and why? Leaving a 5/6 guild to join something below that, seems unreasonable.
 
I really think there are other factors in play that causes player to leave your guild.
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I think you've identified the real problem.
 
People are quitting.
 
If it was a stable time you'd lose maybe one person every few months due to boredom or whatever.  So attunement at that rate should not feel like a chore or not worth it because you get to know that new person you're bringing in and aren't doing it every other week.
 
I haven't raided in this game, but I have seen the attunement list and I just have to shrug.  I'm sorry I'm used to raids that require pre-raids every single time, that require flagging every month, etc.  The attunement process looks like a nice achievement list that should be bringing the raiders together and also learn to play together.  
 
Killing world bosses sounds like a perfect opportunity to socialize and play as the raid group.  Doing the medal runs are a perfect opportunity to learn to play with eachother, not just your class.  Sure the rep grind sounds painful, but you're not complaining about that.
 
And I've never had a GM or raid leader across FOUR games ever complain about having to go teach newblets the ropes and the dungeons.  I lost count how many times I've died and had to do boss fights over and over and over again ... YAY go me as a healer.  My GMs and raid leaders kept me inspired and motivated to do so because those were my future partners in crime and they needed to learn how to farm, how to fight, how to get up to our level.  
 
But then again we didn't lose people every week... Dangers of a fresh new game in the first months.
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			There are Dominion specific game breaking bugs?	
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			Im not gonna bother responding here anymore people are still living in the MMORPGs of the era of 1998-2008 when attunements was fine and not punishing	
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Get on the same progression like us 
 
become a officer of a raiding guild on a small (factioned server) etc dominion
 
then try recruit people .. its not that we have problem progressing its problem with getting people to RAID
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Im not gonna bother responding here anymore people are still living in the MMORPGs of the era of 1998-2008 when attunements was fine and not punishing
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There are Dominion specific game breaking bugs?
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Attunements are probably a requirement actually because you can't make content as quick as people complete it.
 
However..attunements that require you to collect untolds of something are a very laborious.  I'm all for setting people challenges like kill this boss or kill these mobs or kill X amount of something in Y time etc but to literally do farm runs of something isn't great.
 
If you're capable of killing 6/6 in GA and the other stuff then why do you have to run through it constantly to collect a drop.
 
You should be able to go and try DS and maybe not touch the 1st boss but as gear improves you then become more able, that should be the restriction and the other attunement pieces of say kill this or do this but not farm 300 things.
 
If they are due to drop from other places that haven't been released yet then Carbine should learn from this and not include things in attunements that aren't readily available.	
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What a healthy approach to take.. 
 
I'm having trouble understanding how being dominion, no matter how small the population is on your server, can be a factor in people leaving, if you've had a raid crew able to do 5/6 GA 
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Attunements are stupid and add nothing to the game other than a time sink.  Fact.They don't teach you how to raid.  Do people really need tutorials at that level of play anyway?  Seriously...  If you need training wheels you won't even be able to do regular dungeons let alone veteran then progress to raid content.
 
Just stop.  Please.  For the love of god.Archaic feature is archaic.	
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Carbine knew all this before release
Carbine was told all this before release.
Carbine's response was something like we know its hard, we know its not accessible, that's the point.
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Carbine knew about so many things before release. They are not listening. They only listen to themselves.
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Keep in mind, the pool of attuned raiders is only getting bigger day by day. You were very early in the progression race, and the game has only been out a month.
 
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Attunements are stupid and add nothing to the game other than a time sink. Fact.
 
They don't teach you how to raid. Do people really need tutorials at that level of play anyway? Seriously... If you need training wheels you won't even be able to do regular dungeons let alone veteran then progress to raid content.
 
Just stop. Please. For the love of god.
 
Archaic feature is archaic.
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Keep in mind, the pool of attuned raiders is only getting bigger day by day. You were very early in the progression race, and the game has only been out a month.
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It's there to:
 
- Make your team come together in organization and commitment, which is going to be needed in raids.
- Provide an added tier of story-driven progression when you get to max-level.
- Put additional value on the raid.
 
If they didn't have attunement, there would be such an incredible uproar from players who are just walking into the raids expecting to pug them.
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...And when they died 10 -20 times someone would say; 'You know, Maybe we should've gotten better gear in those hard 5 mans first?'
 
The only attument they need is something that has to do with lore, Why are you here killing boss 'x'? 
And the gating process for killing the end boss should be killing the second to the last boss, and the gate for killing the second to the last boss is killing the third from the last boss and so on....
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It's growing because we are waaaaayyy yearly in the game. I'm not sure how many attuned level 50s the guilds that rushed to cap and were raiding 3 weeks ago counted on their being available.
 
But as time goes on, more players will be 50 and working on their attunement, making more raiders available.
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That's a pretty big assumption. And you know what happens when you assume.
 
You're assuming that the game will continue to grow steadily over time in a relatively stable way and that this will be reflected in the OPs specific server.
 
And even if we do assume it's growing it's pretty simple:
 
Number of attuned = Number of new 50s attuned - Number of attuned who quit
 
Now if that last number is higher than the second number, no matter how big that second number is the pool will shrink.
 
Now if there's a low pop server, there might have been an initial early rush to 50 but few new toons rolling there. Which means any 50s who quit will be more sorely missed.
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I agree I am Olivar, but I'm basing my assumption on the anecdotal evidence of the OP.
 
Besides, my main point to Lethality was meant to be that it's completely possible the pool is shrinking. I think I might not have been as clear as I should have been on that.
 
I'll agree that it's completely possible it's shrinking, growing or staying relatively neutral but we have no evidence on which it is.
 
I'd lean towards shrinking, or neutral with increased guild competition based on the OPs experience though.	
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Well im just saying is that we have to "GO BACK and re-attune people over and over" .. make it puggable in dungeons with this attunement quest and i got no problems with it ... right now only the adventure part is puggable .. so ye
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			Chua like to think positive about WildStar : Is game with great future, and more people will come play. Just need more noise. Future of game is partially controlled by players. Want more humans playing? advertise game bit.	
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Chua like to think positive about WildStar : Is game with great future, and more people will come play. Just need more noise. Future of game is partially controlled by players. Want more humans playing? advertise game bit.
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I've always liked seeing you around the forums Olivar, you see the positives and focus on them without denying there are issues.
 
The only friend I've managed to convince to pick up the game has been unable to patch for two weeks, not sure I can justify pushing it off on more friends whilst I'm having doubts =P
 
I will add one more disclaimer in the interests of positivity:
 
Even though I was leaning towards shrinking or neutral, that's based on this one experience on one side of single server. Even if he's completely right, it says nothing of the health of the game as a whole.
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The fact that you have a very small number of guilds actively progressing in each realm, and we haven't even reached 40 man raiding, just shows you how difficult the raiding environment in Wildstar is going to become. Honestly, even in WoW which has a gigantic player base 25 man raiding becomes difficult to pull off in many realms.
 
I just cannot see a bright future for Wildstar's raiding scene. I might have raided in this game were it not for the attunement process but when only 10 people in the guild are interested in doing the quest-chain, what is the point? I would finish the attunement and sit online waiting for others to dedicate (was at 75% of silver dungeons when I left). At least I could have jumped into the raids with a group of less prepared/skilled individuals and seen part of the content. It would have felt like a guild...
 
The argument of being "handed" stuff doesn't make much sense for me since I have progressed in WoW heroic raids for a few years now. I just wanna raid, that's where I wanna spend 3/4 hours a night, not doing some timed runs and sitting waiting for others to log in (aka challenge modes).	
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There's a giant thread in the raiding sub forum where the Progression Guilds are all pretty much saying the same thing as Snitzel.
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/100009-from-a-world-first-raider-on-raiding/page-7	
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I like how the OP said up front how his guild was 5/6. Despite all this talk of inconvenience, it seems like they're in and enjoying raid content. I don't want to see a thread in the fall about how there's nothing to do and a lack of content!
 
That being said, I like how the attunement is now. It forces you to play the bulk of the current game to get into raiding, and it makes anyone who is attuned semi-familiar with playing in a group so they're not dead weight. Seeing content and skill checking are the good things. The attunement could definitely be tweaked in the future to be more constructive; I remember questing in BC and there were some specific blood elves in Netherstorm that actually cast Flame Wreath in the open world, and for such a crushing mechanic in Karazhan as it was, no part of the Kara attunement makes you fight these. They should have. At least attunement in Wildstar is easier than anything in TBC, and can be done is 1-2 weeks, depending on your server maintainance overlap. Ultimately, the OP's problem is less about attunement and more about server population, faction balance, and the playerbase's perception about where they want to be long-term.
 
TL;DR Attunement ★★★☆, room for improvement
 
♪ YOU SHALL NOT MOVE WHEN FLAME WREATH IS CAST / OR THE RAAAAAID / BLOOOOOOWS / UUUUUUUUP ♪	
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The fact that you have a very small number of guilds actively progressing in each realm, and we haven't even reached 40 man raiding, just shows you how difficult the raiding environment in Wildstar is going to become. Honestly, even in WoW which has a gigantic player base 25 man raiding becomes difficult to pull off in many realms.
 
I just cannot see a bright future for Wildstar's raiding scene. I might have raided in this game were it not for the attunement process but when only 10 people in the guild are interested in doing the quest-chain, what is the point? I would finish the attunement and sit online waiting for others to dedicate (was at 75% of silver dungeons when I left). At least I could have jumped into the raids with a group of less prepared/skilled individuals and seen part of the content. It would have felt like a guild...
 
The argument of being "handed" stuff doesn't make much sense for me since I have progressed in WoW heroic raids for a few years now. I just wanna raid, that's where I wanna spend 3/4 hours a night, not doing some timed runs and sitting waiting for others to log in (aka challenge modes).
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Im not gonna bother responding here anymore people are still living in the MMORPGs of the era of 1998-2008 when attunements was fine and not punishing
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Attunements are stupid and add nothing to the game other than a time sink.  Fact.
 
They don't teach you how to raid.  Do people really need tutorials at that level of play anyway?  Seriously...  If you need training wheels you won't even be able to do regular dungeons let alone veteran then progress to raid content.
 
Just stop.  Please.  For the love of god.
 
Archaic feature is archaic.
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What a healthy approach to take.. 
 
I'm having trouble understanding how being dominion, no matter how small the population is on your server, can be a factor in people leaving, if you've had a raid crew able to do 5/6 GA 
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			I like the attunement. If you get tired of helping fresh members with attunement you are not hardcore.	
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I like the attunement. If you get tired of helping fresh members with attunement you are not hardcore.
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 he  has a  raid  full of   gaered  skilled  attuned  raiders ,  when you get on his  level    you will also  have people  jump ship  for  greener pastures
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To take out some of that back tracking grind to make it easier for guilds who want to raid, to be able to fill their roster without spending more time pre-raiding then raiding.
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 there is  nothing hardcore about liking  to  do pre raid  chores. but  keep  that  hubris
 
http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/c/4628420  @ 39:39
 listen  very  very  hard and  hear  carbine  back away  from the current  attunement. the  argument was  won weeks ago. now go  change your tune  and  save a  bit of  face like  carbine tries to  do.
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Woah woah, shots fired o.O
 
I'm raiding already, granted we haven't progressed that far, but I doubt anyone from my guild would jump ship for greener pastures. This is based on that we aren't just a ragtag group of 20 people thrown into a pot, we actually bonded and created quite the strong foundation in our guild, because of the attunements.
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			My only issue with the attunement process is that the imbuement isn't retroactive. Like I wish it would go "oh hey you already did a gold stormtalon! heres the credit!" so that when/if a person(if they feel this way) hits 50 they can feel free to jump right into dungeons and adventures without having the feeling of "well i might as well wait till I actually get the gems to buy the key.(Which I knw some people reaching 50 actually felt like that intended on raiding)	
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I honestly see no reason why Attunement should require 10 world boss.  It adds nothing.
 
To require silver in all dungeons I see the value.
 
To require 32,000 rep is odd but I can accept that they are forcing the player to be more familiar with their faction stories.
 
But the 10 world bosses?  Is it so people can understand what it feels like to beat on something with 10 million HP over and over again?	
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Woah woah, shots fired o.O
 
I'm raiding already, granted we haven't progressed that far, but I doubt anyone from my guild would jump ship for greener pastures. This is based on that we aren't just a ragtag group of 20 people thrown into a pot, we actually bonded and created quite the strong foundation in our guild, because of the attunements.
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My only issue with the attunement process is that the imbuement isn't retroactive. Like I wish it would go "oh hey you already did a gold stormtalon! heres the credit!" so that when/if a person(if they feel this way) hits 50 they can feel free to jump right into dungeons and adventures without having the feeling of "well i might as well wait till I actually get the gems to buy the key.(Which I knw some people reaching 50 actually felt like that intended on raiding)
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i too only want to log in and do content that benefits me. i too am only part of a guild so that the guild can make me better.
 
/sarcasm
 
i for one am glad there is finally an mmo where people require other people again. sure the attunment for Molten Core didnt require you to run dungeons, but most people geared up in D1 gear before Molten Core, which took a lot longer and required a lot more runs than these attunements. And you ran them, over and over and over again because once upon a time raiding was about a guild, not about an individual. i wish facebook would just make an mmo so we can get more actual mmo gamers playing actual mmos instead of this tiring amount of entitled single player gamers who will disappear once they have the gear they want.	
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I honestly see no reason why Attunement should require 10 world boss.  It adds nothing.
 
To require silver in all dungeons I see the value.
 
To require 32,000 rep is odd but I can accept that they are forcing the player to be more familiar with their faction stories.
 
But the 10 world bosses?  Is it so people can understand what it feels like to beat on something with 10 million HP over and over again?
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It begins to get your team in a "raid mode" and begin working with each other in large groups. That's what it adds.
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Most world bosses are just random shouts in the zone/circle/guild and people show up and beat it silly.  It is just a zerg and requires little to no coordination.
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It doesn't matter; those are probably the first time your whole raid team has a chance to assemble in one place and actually fight something. There is value in that team building, especially by the time you are done with 10 bosses.
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It doesn't matter; those are probably the first time your whole raid team has a chance to assemble in one place and actually fight something. There is value in that team building, especially by the time you are done with 10 bosses.
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I guess we have it good compared to some. We have 50+ GA attuned raiders and are pushing two teams through the zone. At each step we've had more applicants than we can reasonably accept, so the attunement process gives us a handy cutoff- when we were mostly on adventures we required applicants to be at least to the silver adventure step. Likewise with silver dungeons, and now we require full GA attunement to app. I imagine we'll soon be locking it down even more.
 
It acts as a filter for people at a certain level of commitment, and also prevents us from constantly having to go backwards to play catch-up. We could certainly have used other benchmarks in the absence of a lengthy multi-step attunement, but this is convenient.	
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			Im just curious dont rage please, You can invite players cross server to your raid group when youre in the instance so is it really THAT big of a deal that Dominion are less populated in your server than others, you still have the ability to raid with anyone cross server. Just thinking ._.	
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I generally support attunement, but i prefer it to be something that can be done solo & act as a little speed bump to get prepared.
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