122705-how-to-improve-the-game-in-a-few-ways

== Content ==
			So hey there , My name is Lior Hassin I'm from israel and I'm 17 years old.As a fan of your game and a player I'm trying to make this game more fun I always check stuff that can be fixed and report them but,In wildstar I couldn't find any problems in the gameplay it self , the only problem I found is the month fee.Its not a real problem for me cause I work but as I see the game and as my friends see it (some that wish they could play but can't afford it) this game is great but because of the paying every month this game is being wasted for nothing .For me as a player I don't enjoy playing this game cause I can't find battlegrounds matches or dungeons .Taking ages to find.Making this game pay to win is reasonable cause this game really worth the money but like Tera online you can change this game make the system a bit better and you will be able to make enough money to keep this game running the whole time + updating it.Now this is just an example of what you can do that will highly increase the population of the game and the fun of those that payed already.Making the game buy 2 play ( meaning pay once to play all life ) will make this game better because - more than enough players will join this game to fill the world.Another way of making this game better if you do decide to be awesome and change this game to pay once to play it will be the C.R.E.E.D system in the game - now I will speak like you do decide to change to pay once to play :after you change to pay once to play C.R.E.E.D system can be turned to points for example 1 C.R.E.E.D = 10,000 points which with those points you can unlock cool mounts , unlock pets that have a special ability for example pet with extra 72 storage and lots more .Making this change will make sure people that want to pay once and enjoy this game will do and people that got the money will enjoy it by buying awesome outfits and mounts and pets , maybe ever buying a thing that will speed things up in the plot - for example a 3 days boost that will make the production of things inside the housing plot 50% less .keeping the system that people can still buy for like 20 platinum C.R.E.E.D and making it worth 10,000 points for in game shop ( that will not make this game pay to win ) will make this game the best mmorpg of 2015 and maybe even 2016 .Thats what I think can improve the population of this game and the money you earn cause right now as I see it and I'm not trying to be offensive or something This game is pretty empty - Waiting for more than 1 hour for 1 bg / dungeon instance ( and sometimes you can't even find one ) making this game a bit boring and even not enjoyable.This is my tip that I think will boost the game to the next level.Now just something that I want to say about the game itself - You got The best mmorpg - The best combat system - The best game ever - Use it smart and make it better. !Good luck in what ever choice you choose to and I hope you take the right path to success.Love - Lior Hassin , Israel. 	
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basically, make it like gw2.
 
 
problem is my friend. it'll never be. gw2.	
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Well here is the thing, 
 
I prefer sub models overall for a constant high quality stream of content.
 
I also think wildstar is a great game with amazing potential. They lost a lot of people early on, yes, but I think drop 4 is finally heading in the right direction.
 
Wildstar will always be a little niche because of the combat system and overall difficulty level, but I do think it can find it's audience and survive on the sub model. I think if the game at this point was what we had at launch, we'd have a much larger population. But the potential is there and the game can grow. There's nothing I want to see more.	
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My goal here is not to make it like guild wars 2 is just to make it possible for those that wont be able to maintain the subscription - now I know those that pay for sub pref sub cause it means the community is usually better and the game will progress more with the money it gets but - Tera online is a great example of a game that lost a lot of players early on ( had a great combat system for that time being ) and went to free to play ( I only try to get buy 2 play ) that change made tera one of the best mmorpg for 2014 / 2015 , think about it as long as the game is not pay to win its fine .
giving the players the oppertunity to decide if they want to pay every month and get extra stuff that will just make the game a bit faster and not pay to win or giving them the oppertunity to pay once and be able to actually keep playing the game they like is imo what all the games should do.
but thanks for the opinion I appreciate it.	
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			CREDD(not CREED) allows them to play if they can't/won't pay for a sub.	
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			CREDD allows you to buy gametime with in game currency. You can even stockpile credd, bind it to your account and it will renew automatically until it runs out.	
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			the credd now is 23 platinum thats way too much imo but sure just suggesting stuff here no hate.	
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the credd now is 23 platinum thats way too much imo but sure just suggesting stuff here no hate.
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			The pvp one on europe lumi something I forgot	
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The pvp one on europe lumi something I forgot
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Again my goal here is not to change the system and I'm not even a tiny small part of the system - I am a player but that means nothing , I quit my job before 1 month and unfortinatly I can't afford it so I'm trying to understand if there is another way of doing this I guess there isn't a way and I get it cause at the end this game is running cause developers had a cool idea for a game that will eventually earn money - the whole point of gaming is money this is why I'm so tierd of playing video games , its all about the money how to make more and more instead of doing what you do and making enough money to live with . my idea was just an innocent idea that could still keep the game in track cause I know that tera online for example still make lots of money cause rich players like those that are here saying its nothing 15$ a month pay to make in game money and progress , Credd system shouldn't change unless the game itself change from pay to play to buy to play .
Again thanks for the answers I understood how its working here , please write the server you are and if you can the average of how long it takes to find bg / dungeon - I will try and ask the support to change my char so I can enjoy the last 2 months that I pre puchased.
Thanks!	
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			I used my transfer to move to the Lumini (pvp) I'm still able to move to the pve one?	
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Again my goal here is not to change the system and I'm not even a tiny small part of the system - I am a player but that means nothing , I quit my job before 1 month and unfortinatly I can't afford it so I'm trying to understand if there is another way of doing this I guess there isn't a way and I get it cause at the end this game is running cause developers had a cool idea for a game that will eventually earn money - the whole point of gaming is money this is why I'm so tierd of playing video games , its all about the money how to make more and more instead of doing what you do and making enough money to live with . my idea was just an innocent idea that could still keep the game in track cause I know that tera online for example still make lots of money cause rich players like those that are here saying its nothing 15$ a month pay to make in game money and progress , Credd system shouldn't change unless the game itself change from pay to play to buy to play .
Again thanks for the answers I understood how its working here , please write the server you are and if you can the average of how long it takes to find bg / dungeon - I will try and ask the support to change my char so I can enjoy the last 2 months that I pre puchased.
Thanks!
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			I believe you can change servers once a week or so, or at least last I heard that was how it goes. Unfortunately, you cant change from EU to US or vice versa, I'm not sure which of the EU servers are most populated, but Im bettin its not the one with 23p cost CREDD	
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Again my goal here is not to change the system and I'm not even a tiny small part of the system - I am a player but that means nothing , I quit my job before 1 month and unfortinatly I can't afford it so I'm trying to understand if there is another way of doing this I guess there isn't a way and I get it cause at the end this game is running cause developers had a cool idea for a game that will eventually earn money - the whole point of gaming is money this is why I'm so tierd of playing video games , its all about the money how to make more and more instead of doing what you do and making enough money to live with . my idea was just an innocent idea that could still keep the game in track cause I know that tera online for example still make lots of money cause rich players like those that are here saying its nothing 15$ a month pay to make in game money and progress , Credd system shouldn't change unless the game itself change from pay to play to buy to play .
Again thanks for the answers I understood how its working here , please write the server you are and if you can the average of how long it takes to find bg / dungeon - I will try and ask the support to change my char so I can enjoy the last 2 months that I pre puchased.
Thanks!
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Your character select screen should tell you if you have a free transfer available:
 
 
 
I hate to sound like a *cupcake* but if you quit your job and can't afford games, then don't play games.  It's not my place, or even desire, to support other people that want to play the game but aren't willing/able to pay their own way, which is why I don't play non-sub games.	
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Yeah I changed the server seems like there are a few players around - and for the VicVanMeter I really feel like there is a bit of hate in that message - the only thing I suggest is b2p not f2p and believe me that tera online is making more money than wildstar as a f2p and not p2w game.
even tho wildstar is p2p.
this is why I came up with this idea.
not trying to argue here about how things should go in the gaming market just trying to be reasonable and nice to those that can't afford the 15$ and there are players that have this money but the parents wont let them so you need to leave the attitude of only 15 $ for tons of content - and start opening your eyes about those that the parents wont let them waste that amount of money every month and pref to pay once for a game they know wont cost more for the next year.
Again not trying to make any argue here at the end the community here is great and I dont want to ruin it, just try to see the other people in the world and think about all the things and stuff they need to get through when they try to get an ok from the parents to pay every month 15$ - when I say its a lot - I mean in total looking at this playing this game 1 year = 180 $ the amount of money those kids will get to buy 3 games and enjoy more.
not saying that this money is wasted the game totaly worth it just trying to be reasonable for those that having a hard time getting it.
Thanks for the quick answers btw it was lovely i'll go to sleep now . thanks !P.S	beattlebilly - how is medic at level 50 and there is a chance you send me a picture of your early stage build / maybe a build you used to have a nice dmg and a few heals .Im level 17 healer right now having a hard time leveling him cause the dmg seems a bit low and I will love to see the best build I can come up with to make it faster to 50 and try making 20 platinum a month. thanks!.	
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Yeah I changed the server seems like there are a few players around - and for the VicVanMeter I really feel like there is a bit of hate in that message - the only thing I suggest is b2p not f2p and believe me that tera online is making more money than wildstar as a f2p and not p2w game.
even tho wildstar is p2p.
this is why I came up with this idea.
not trying to argue here about how things should go in the gaming market just trying to be reasonable and nice to those that can't afford the 15$ and there are players that have this money but the parents wont let them so you need to leave the attitude of only 15 $ for tons of content - and start opening your eyes about those that the parents wont let them waste that amount of money every month and pref to pay once for a game they know wont cost more for the next year.
Again not trying to make any argue here at the end the community here is great and I dont want to ruin it, just try to see the other people in the world and think about all the things and stuff they need to get through when they try to get an ok from the parents to pay every month 15$ - when I say its a lot - I mean in total looking at this playing this game 1 year = 180 $ the amount of money those kids will get to buy 3 games and enjoy more.
not saying that this money is wasted the game totaly worth it just trying to be reasonable for those that having a hard time getting it.
Thanks for the quick answers btw it was lovely i'll go to sleep now . thanks !
P.S
beattlebilly - how is medic at level 50 and there is a chance you send me a picture of your early stage build / maybe a build you used to have a nice dmg and a few heals .Im level 17 healer right now having a hard time leveling him cause the dmg seems a bit low and I will love to see the best build I can come up with to make it faster to 50 and try making 20 platinum a month. thanks!. 
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			Poster... gaining plat is much easier at 50. Doing dailies for a week will give you enough plat to buy a CREDD on jabbit and that's not including rare drops.	
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For that money, you have access to everything equally with everyone else in the game, who are also paid in (essentially, someone paid in the CREDD players for 20 dollars a month).  If this is too much for you, and you're asking for a model change, you're not going to be the one footing the bill for you to play.  Essentially, I am, if I stay (and I won't).  Obviously, by a purely fiscal analysis, anyone attracted to an F2P game that wasn't here before will not be paying 15 dollars a month (as they could be doing that right now with access to the entirety of developed content).  That means that the people who are here and paying need to pay a LOT more.  We're talking nine free players requiring one person to spend 150 dollars a month to keep up the per-capita gain.
 
That's why the systems tend to stray into P2W, because they know that the one thing people will pay extra for is a game advantage.  Not people who want the game as it is, with equal access to everything, but people who essentially want to buy in and walk over people.  There's only so far cosmetic upgrades will take your game since, as stated, the people willing to pay 15$ a month or more are already playing.  The developers will have to cater to this new market, since that's where the money is.  Free players are nothing but tissues or lunch to the people companies are actually trying to attract, whales.
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All this sounds very inspiring, Vic, but it's simply not true. I wish it was. But it's not.
 
This game already has players who view 15 bucks a month as more than they're willing to pay. They do not pay their own way. That means that the people who are here and paying need--on average--to pay more than fifteen bucks a month. A lot more. In return, those players get plat for paying more than 15 bucks a month. They can spend that plat on AP/AMP point unlocks, the best BoE gear available, all the most expensive runesets and runic modules and fluxes, and carries to BoP equipment that are provided by in-game powerlevelers who take their pay in plat.
 
So a normal subscriber will be at a substantial disadvantage with a comparable subscriber who spends the same time, has the same skill, and drops a lot of cash on CREDD. That is the very definition of P2W. It is already in effect here, no F2P required. 
 
You can buy CREDD with cash at a rate of around 1 per day, so the game caps out the amount of cash you can spend on a single account at around $615/month. If each CREDD gives you around 10 plat, then a player who has hundreds of dollars in discretionary spending cash can obtain about 300 plat more than a player who doesn't without one bit of additional in-game effort. The more money you spend, the bigger an edge you get until your spending on a video game can exceed what many people spend on their rent.
 
So a rich player can spend LOTS more money than a typical person will ever be willing to spend on a video game to obtain LOTS more of an advantage in the game. That is the very definition of whaling. It is already in effect here, no F2P required.
 
So with all due respect, there are arguments to be made against F2P/B2P, but the ones you've chosen to focus on simply are not disadvantages relative to the hybrid model in play here. This game is not a pure subscription-based business model, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that.
 
Oh, and by the way:
 
I'm going to refer you to this game's business model information. In particular, go here and click on the "Get Gold" tab. It should dispel any notion that you have that everyone pays the same small amount to get in and the rest is earned in-game.  :lol:
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I'm aware of your CREDD = P2W argument, and we've had to agree to disagree.  I disagree because I cannot use CREDD to buy an advantage over a DS raider, nor can I use CREDD to become a DS raider.  I can't buy 1800 gear with CREDD without the required rating.  I can feasibly use an epic ton of CREDD to buy my AMPs and Ability Unlocks, but none of these are paywalled.  I can grind them up (and have been).
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You are welcome to pretend that people can't and don't buy carries to bypass content-gating, and you're welcome to pretend that two players have an even playing field when one of them has to rely on extraordinarily rare drops or months of grinding dailies and the other can click the "Buy Now" button with plat they obtained from cash. But regardless of your willingness to pretend that these things are true, they continue to be false. So I agree that you're welcome to continue to be wrong in the face of direct evidence to the contrary for as long as long as you'd like.
 
As for the rest, I understand your argument just fine. You seem not to have spent much time playing genuinely F2P games, where the playerbase is very insistent about everything that's in the cash shop being available in the game. Some of these games do so by making the drop rates for epic loot so small that it's like winning a lottery ticket, some do it by walling it off behind effectively impossible content, some do it by allowing cash-shop purchases to be sold on the auction house as a cash-for-currency exchange. In all those cases, the tradeoff is always time vs. money--you can have it if you pay for it, or you can have it if you play until your fingers bleed. Just like it is here. The only difference is that here, we're paying for the privilege of that dynamic. This may be part of the explanation for why so few of us are playing the game at all. Business models do matter, it turns out.
 
As for the OP's target population, the game itself IS B2P if you farm plat like a maniac, so there's already a route for them to play the game. I'm surprised it hasn't been a more frequent response to the OP. And given that the game's box price has been steadily falling since launch, we're not really all that far from having a F2P option anyway.
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You are welcome to pretend that people can't and don't buy carries to bypass content-gating, and you're welcome to pretend that two players have an even playing field when one of them has to rely on extraordinarily rare drops or months of grinding dailies and the other can click the "Buy Now" button with plat they obtained from cash. But regardless of your willingness to pretend that these things are true, they continue to be false. So I agree that you're welcome to continue to be wrong in the face of direct evidence to the contrary for as long as long as you'd like.
 
As for the rest, I understand your argument just fine. You seem not to have spent much time playing genuinely F2P games, where the playerbase is very insistent about everything that's in the cash shop being available in the game. Some of these games do so by making the drop rates for epic loot so small that it's like winning a lottery ticket, some do it by walling it off behind effectively impossible content, some do it by allowing cash-shop purchases to be sold on the auction house as a cash-for-currency exchange. In all those cases, the tradeoff is always time vs. money--you can have it if you pay for it, or you can have it if you play until your fingers bleed. Just like it is here. The only difference is that here, we're paying for the privilege of that dynamic. This may be part of the explanation for why so few of us are playing the game at all. Business models do matter, it turns out.
 
As for the OP's target population, the game itself IS B2P if you farm plat like a maniac, so there's already a route for them to play the game. I'm surprised it hasn't been a more frequent response to the OP. And given that the game's box price has been steadily falling since launch, we're not really all that far from having a F2P option anyway.
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 Nobody buys a carry in my guild, we run with everyone, letting them get better, teaching them.  
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... looking for a DPS medic who's also working on a healing spec?
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Vince, you know everyone's welcome in the Blazing Saddles!   :D  I'm still at work, but I can get in touch with someone to get you an invite.
 
I mean what I say, too.  I like teaching people the ropes.  Everyone complains that they don't know enough people to put together a premade.  I do, and I've trained a good chunk of them.   :lol:
 
Send me a message if you're looking for a /ginvite, I'll get you set up from here.
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I'll do it as soon as I'm home from the studio.  I've never run ANY dungeons in WS and I'd love to go after a few.
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Yeah, you can get 10 plat in a week easily. Just from doing dailies and selling the vendor trash. So acting like getting money for CREDD (on the populated servers) is some mountainous task is just pure sensationalism.
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Yasfan, this again...
 
So tell me, why do you hate this game so much, yet continue to play it? I really would like to know the reason.	
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Yasfan, this again...
 
So tell me, why do you hate this game so much, yet continue to play it? I really would like to know the reason.
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Going free to play never changed a game for the better.
 
 
I *hate* ingame cash shops, premium currencies and paywalls.
There is literally no better way to break game immersion than the free to play system.	
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It turns out that I can like the game and still recognize fundamental problems that limit its broad appeal.
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Actually, this is my favorite new meme in the "go play some other game" category.
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problem is my friend. it'll never be. gw2.
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Way to see the trees and miss the forest, Dharnell.
 
My point in the text you quoted was that it was possible for people to earn their play time for free, so the game is effectively B2P. While I wouldn't be quite as glib about how easy it is to raise 10 plat as you are, it's definitely possible to do at this point for a level 50 character. Whether you define "spending a week farming all the daily zones" as "farming like a maniac" or not is entirely up to you--but I note that there's enough people paying subscription fees and enough people who buy CREDD on top of that to prevent the supply of CREDD from being overwhelmed by demand. That suggests that many of us don't find it to be as trivial an effort as you do.
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Okay so first thanks for all the replays it helped me understand how you guys pref the game and some interesting tips like farming dailies which I will probably learn as I get to level 50.
I have been a member of mmorpg for a long time aswell Played mmorpgs since wow came out.I really feel like games should never be pay to win and should always be like wildstar is doing but I have been in a game that I forgot his name will remember probably late , it was with the same idea that I had like making points that will give you costume stuff and also gave the players that couldn't maintain the sub the option to do dailies that give them cash points to stay in touch with those that pay real money for it.
Just thought it will be an interesting idea but I guess we have 80% that pref to pay every month which is totaly fine.about the 15$ that you said family pay more than 15$ to eat diner - I agree tho I don't look at this invest like you guys are , I count total how much I wasted on 1 single game since I start playing thinking that people pay for 1 year around 130$ - 150$ I dont remember the prices its a bit too much (not meaning its too much consider to the money you make in 1 year but its too much consider to how much games should cost) still looking at the approach the developers are - They need to make money and I get it , this is their job but - the game I forgot his name showed a result of changing from p2p to  b2p and change the system like I said made the same money they earned and even more ( they didn't change to p2w which is great ) this is why I was sure there is a tiny tiny chance of this game to turn up side down and maintain the money they make , cause b2p usually draw more players in cause its not a big invest for those that don't work cause the stupid country did that we can work only from age 18+ ( when 18-21 you have to be in the army - israel state is still in war means all need to be in the army for atleast 3 years ) this time that you can start working is too late cause you don't enjoy those games when you are young.
Thanks for the replays guys , hope I make any sense and if I'm not write it down its an interesting conversation we have here.
Thanks again!. and if you can send a bit of tips on how leveling fast and how to be a better medic cause its really hard early on.
<3.	
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			What an interesting read Yasfan (just here on mah maintance break :D ) . Never thought of it that way but you are right. On other hand I think its stretch to call it "fundamental problem" because you are first person I hear this from. Actually one of the reasons why I started playing is credd. I just think its nice system :) . 	
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As I said before, and multiple times at that, I genuinly hope Carbine and NCSoft won't go F2P/B2P with this game. As I also stated here before, just look at the SubReddit, where all toxic resides, people who don't like WildStar for whatever reason and just post sheer trolls and toxic comments.
 
Is that the way we want to go with wildstar? I see more people in Thayd every day, the game is growing. If you have any trouble finding people to do the things you want, go out and look for those people (i/e in chat channels).	
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As I said before, and multiple times at that, I genuinly hope Carbine and NCSoft won't go F2P/B2P with this game. As I also stated here before, just look at the SubReddit, where all toxic resides, people who don't like WildStar for whatever reason and just post sheer trolls and toxic comments.
 
Is that the way we want to go with wildstar? I see more people in Thayd every day, the game is growing. If you have any trouble finding people to do the things you want, go out and look for those people (i/e in chat channels).
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Exactky! I dont mind F2P at all. But with this game my fear is that it would just bring people that would log in every day to ask in zone chat "Is this game dead yet?" and topics filled with "Game is too hard and boring!"
 
I really hope numbers are looking good for NCsoft because from where I stand (lvl 35 currently) there is more then enough people in both leveling zones and main city. And dungeon finder always find me a group in about 20 minutes (im DPS so that time aint bad at all) .
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 but also current generation of MMO players tend too want everything handed too them. 
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Thanks again!. and if you can send a bit of tips on how leveling fast and how to be a better medic cause its really hard early on.
 
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Oh oh! For interrupts  highly recommend this addon (even if you dont wanna use addons...this one is just must have)
 
http://www.curse.com/ws-addons/wildstar/220057-interruptor
 
It changed my life :D now I can clearly see if mob is casting something I should interrupt. Nice big bar...that I have almost at center of the screen.
 
Green bar - HIT HIM
Red Bar - dont waste your CC but be ready for some bullet hell :D 
 
easy as that :D also it shows if other people already used their CC on mob (tough mobs require more then one person to use their CC skill)	
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Doing a week's worth of dailies isn't farming like a maniac, since that weeks worth of questing can be spread out over the course of a month. Daily zones which take between 30 minutes to an hour per zone, gear pending, is something that even the most time pressed of casual players could do. People like myself. Your average non-time constrained player probably spends more time on an air taxi per week. And this is just with Crimson Isle and Northern Wastes. (I don't do The Defile unless I need some extra money, since it's a ways out and I make enough as it is.) If you threw in The Defile, it would be less than a week. Your unnecessary defensiveness over someone setting the record straight, and having a different opinion than you aside, (which has constantly the case with you, despite your incoming denial) it's pretty darn easy to get money to afford CREDD. Even moreso. Now that Carbine added in stupidly easy and short Veteran Shiphands. Which give between 20-26 gold a piece on gold, and is a ridiculously easy medal to get.
 
You're so far off the mark with this that it's hilarious.
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			At 10-15p(Entity) a CREDD, not very many people are buying/selling oodles of CREDD to make in-game plat so they can have that much of an advantage over little ole me.  With the expense of some of the things people spend plat on, I don't see how they are coming out ahead of me by spending all their real world, hard earned cash to get some ephemeral, perceived, "advantages" over me.  They aren't paying cash for anything I can't receive in game with my own effort.	
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Thanks again!. and if you can send a bit of tips on how leveling fast and how to be a better medic cause its really hard early on.
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Here's my usual setup:
 
Fissure > Annihilation > Devastator Probes > Discharge until enemy begins casting > Paralytic Surge > Gamma Rays until MoO is done > Repeat.
 
This rotation becomes insane with the right AMPs and tier unlocks.  I can fire Gamma Rays between 4-7 times if I play my cards right.  Lemme know if you want to see the build I use.
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I would like to see it Vince. I just made a Medic named Chivonn St.Claire.
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Done and done.
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At 10-15p(Entity) a CREDD, not very many people are buying/selling oodles of CREDD to make in-game plat so they can have that much of an advantage over little ole me.  With the expense of some of the things people spend plat on, I don't see how they are coming out ahead of me by spending all their real world, hard earned cash to get some ephemeral, perceived, "advantages" over me.  They aren't paying cash for anything I can't receive in game with my own effort.
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I really don't understand the complaint you are making Yasfan.
 
Yes, people can use real money to get carried in the game.
 
It does not seem to have affected the enjoyment of the game for the majority of people.
 
I really don't care if someone drops $600 and buys a carry to get some DS gear. It's not rampant . . .	
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			Yasfan, it isnt p2w to have other players carry you lol. Get your stuff together.	
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What's your point? "Cash or effort" is the trade-off in most games that are genuinely F2P and don't even offer the possibility of a subscription. Just like you describe it here. The main difference is that here it isn't F2P, so it's not even as good as "cash or effort". Here, it's "cash+more cash or cash+effort".
 
10-15 plat may not sound like a lot, but that's also the return on only spending $20. There are very wealthy people who play these types of games who regularly spend more money on a game than most people spend on their rent. This game will let you spend about $600/month on CREDD. That's 300-450 plat, enough to trick yourself out with some advantages that are neither "perceived" nor "ephemeral" over the vast majority of the playerbase. Do you make 300-450 plat worth of drops per month in this game just by playing it? If not, someone can outachieve you simply by pulling out their credit-card and visiting the CREDD exchange.
 
Content-gating the phat lewt is supposed to be the safeguard against P2W here. That's why most of that top loot is BoP, or requires content completion to work. Except that it's completely legit for you to pay others in plat to carry you through the entire game, and you can buy vast quantities of plat with cash. So the content gate isn't a safeguard at all. It's a joke and the average player--who is paying a subscription fee in cash to be treated the same way that they would be in a F2P game--is the punchline.
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What's your point? "Cash or effort" is the trade-off in most games that are genuinely F2P and don't even offer the possibility of a subscription. Just like you describe it here. The main difference is that here it isn't F2P, so it's not even as good as "cash or effort". Here, it's "cash+more cash or cash+effort".
 
10-15 plat may not sound like a lot, but that's also the return on only spending $20. There are very wealthy people who play these types of games who regularly spend more money on a game than most people spend on their rent. This game will let you spend about $600/month on CREDD. That's 300-450 plat, enough to trick yourself out with some advantages that are neither "perceived" nor "ephemeral" over the vast majority of the playerbase. Do you make 300-450 plat worth of drops per month in this game just by playing it? If not, someone can outachieve you simply by pulling out their credit-card and visiting the CREDD exchange.
 
Content-gating the phat lewt is supposed to be the safeguard against P2W here. That's why most of that top loot is BoP, or requires content completion to work. Except that it's completely legit for you to pay others in plat to carry you through the entire game, and you can buy vast quantities of plat with cash. So the content gate isn't a safeguard at all. It's a joke and the average player--who is paying a subscription fee in cash to be treated the same way that they would be in a F2P game--is the punchline.
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What's your point? "Cash or effort" is the trade-off in most games that are genuinely F2P and don't even offer the possibility of a subscription. Just like you describe it here. The main difference is that here it isn't F2P, so it's not even as good as "cash or effort". Here, it's "cash+more cash or cash+effort".
 
10-15 plat may not sound like a lot, but that's also the return on only spending $20. There are very wealthy people who play these types of games who regularly spend more money on a game than most people spend on their rent. This game will let you spend about $600/month on CREDD. That's 300-450 plat, enough to trick yourself out with some advantages that are neither "perceived" nor "ephemeral" over the vast majority of the playerbase. Do you make 300-450 plat worth of drops per month in this game just by playing it? If not, someone can outachieve you simply by pulling out their credit-card and visiting the CREDD exchange.
 
Content-gating the phat lewt is supposed to be the safeguard against P2W here. That's why most of that top loot is BoP, or requires content completion to work. Except that it's completely legit for you to pay others in plat to carry you through the entire game, and you can buy vast quantities of plat with cash. So the content gate isn't a safeguard at all. It's a joke and the average player--who is paying a subscription fee in cash to be treated the same way that they would be in a F2P game--is the punchline.
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I really don't understand the complaint you are making Yasfan.
Yes, people can use real money to get carried in the game.
It does not seem to have affected the enjoyment of the game for the majority of people.
I really don't care if someone drops $600 and buys a carry to get some DS gear. It's not rampant . . .
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			I'd really like to see the vendor that sells top-tier raid gear for platinum only, with no rep requirements or glory or anything else attached.	
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I'd really like to see the vendor that sells top-tier raid gear for platinum only, with no rep requirements or glory or anything else attached.
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			meh, n/m	
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There isn't one. But then again, if you had read the conversation, you already knew this.
 
But since we're now talking about things we'd like to see that we're not going to see, I'd really like to see the part of the ToS that forbids groups from carrying someone to top-tier raid/PvP gear in return for platinum only, with no skill requirements or commitment to the group or anything else attached.
 
Because cash is all that it takes to get plat, and plat is all that it takes to get that gear. Vendors are not required.
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			That a handful of people may do what you suggest is different from what would happen if the entire monetization strategy for the game was based on giving the advantage to those who spend the most money.	
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That a handful of people may do what you suggest is different from what would happen if the entire monetization strategy for the game was based on giving the advantage to those who spend the most money.
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That a handful of people may do what you suggest is different from what would happen if the entire monetization strategy for the game was based on giving the advantage to those who spend the most money.
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All this sounds very inspiring, Vic, but it's simply not true. I wish it was. But it's not.
 
This game already has players who view 15 bucks a month as more than they're willing to pay. They do not pay their own way. That means that the people who are here and paying need--on average--to pay more than fifteen bucks a month. A lot more. In return, those players get plat for paying more than 15 bucks a month. They can spend that plat on AP/AMP point unlocks, the best BoE gear available, all the most expensive runesets and runic modules and fluxes, and carries to BoP equipment that are provided by in-game powerlevelers who take their pay in plat.
 
So a normal subscriber will be at a substantial disadvantage with a comparable subscriber who spends the same time, has the same skill, and drops a lot of cash on CREDD. That is the very definition of P2W. It is already in effect here, no F2P required. 
 
You can buy CREDD with cash at a rate of around 1 per day, so the game caps out the amount of cash you can spend on a single account at around $615/month. If each CREDD gives you around 10 plat, then a player who has hundreds of dollars in discretionary spending cash can obtain about 300 plat more than a player who doesn't without one bit of additional in-game effort. The more money you spend, the bigger an edge you get until your spending on a video game can exceed what many people spend on their rent.
 
So a rich player can spend LOTS more money than a typical person will ever be willing to spend on a video game to obtain LOTS more of an advantage in the game. That is the very definition of whaling. It is already in effect here, no F2P required.
 
So with all due respect, there are arguments to be made against F2P/B2P, but the ones you've chosen to focus on simply are not disadvantages relative to the hybrid model in play here. This game is not a pure subscription-based business model, and no amount of pretending otherwise will change that.
 
Oh, and by the way:
 
I'm going to refer you to this game's business model information. In particular, go here and click on the "Get Gold" tab. It should dispel any notion that you have that everyone pays the same small amount to get in and the rest is earned in-game.  :lol:
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Lol , you are funny guy , but that's not what p2w means . Getting that plat from other players wont give you any significant advantage in WS . The amount of plat you need to develop your char isnt much , the more expensive stuff is just fluff , excluding the Ability and AMP unlocks which you can get by other means .
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P.S. You can't really end an argument by saying things like "this is not debatable."  Everything is debatable, and debate encourages thought which encourages choice.  Usually, yasfan, I butt heads with you pretty hard, but for once I'm trying to look at this on a low-key level.  You may have a point - someone CAN fork over the cash and get carried and get Datascape gear -- if the stars of the game align properly.  Realistically though, I don't see this happening on a scale large enough for it to matter to the other 99.9% of the game's population.
 
And... really, if a large enough group of P2W crusaders fart $600 into Carbine's wallet EVERY MONTH, then we have no right to whine about financial reports or the game not getting enough money.
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I appreciate trying to approach this from a calm position, thank you. But what you're doing in that postscript is claiming that there's no such thing as objective reality. It simply isn't true that everything is debatable. 2+2=4. Not 3, and not 5. Claiming otherwise does not encourage thought or choice. It simply obscures reality and distracts from doing anything productive because we're too busy arguing about whether or not 2+2=4 to actually think about what it means that 2+2=4.
 
That being said, it appears that we have finally managed to reach a consensus that yes, actually, it IS in fact possible for someone to pull out their wallet and buy their way into DS gear through entirely legitimate, game-endorsed methods. Thank you. I appreciate that willingness to acknowledge facts. 
 
As for whether or no--
 
Two steps forward, one step back. Oh well.
 
P2W means Pay To Win. As in, the more money you pay, the better your odds of winning.
As one of a huge variety of possible mechanisms by which this can work,
 
If you have a lot of cash, you can hand some of it to Carbine in excess of your subscription fee.	In return for every 20 bucks in excess of your subscription fee that you hand to them, Carbine will hand you a CREDD token that you can exchange at the CREDD vendor for about 10 plat.	You can take the plat that you accrue and use it to buy things from vendors, from the auction house, and from other players.	One of the things you can buy from other players is a carry through DS for the gear.	This gear, having much better stats and more rune slots than any other gear in the game, will allow you to substantially outperform the vast majority of other players who play the game and lack DS gear.
 
Thus, the more money you pay to Carbine the more profoundly you can improve your performance and competitiveness.
The more you pay, the more you win.
 
But thanks for encouraging thought and choice by trying to redefine P2W.
 
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I don't raid, but is it possible to carry one or two people through the raids in this game?  I mean I can see that it would be doable to take someone with low gear but is playing their class/role, but is a true carry possible?
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To clarify, I'm running with the games industry standard of P2W, not what it could mean literally.  P2W comes with its own taboos when you mention it in the circles of online gaming.  You're right, we can pay plat to get raid gear if we find a group willing to jump through hoops for money.  That's not necessarily P2W in the industry sense, because you still need a willing group who cares enough about plat to take you through.  My point was that there is not Direct-To-Top-Tier method in this game.  You can't use the plat you get to directly buy all of the best stuff.  A lot of it has to be earned through raids, challenges, quests, etc.  Hell, you won't even see all the stuff you want drop on the first time through the top tier raid because RNG is RNG.  The best stuff you get off of crafting/AH isn't as good as raiding, and that's where your view on the process hits a speedbump.  I'll say it again:  It could be done in theory, but realistically I don't know how it would work out.  Even if it did, there's no way a bunch of millionaires are all playing Wildstar, so the impact of those who ARE able to do it would be negligible.  It's that point that keeps me away from calling this game P2W.  You'd have to spend a LOT of real world money to get a CHANCE at top tier gear, several times over.  That's...  not worth the effort, and I don't know anyone who'd go through with it.
 
I mean, if those middle steps of actually DOING the content aren't that important to you as far as process, then...  well, there's nothing I can move forward with.
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I do know that the inexperience of a raider can hose the entire raid, though.
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To clarify, I'm running with the games industry standard of P2W, not what it could mean literally.  P2W comes with its own taboos when you mention it in the circles of online gaming.  You're right, we can pay plat to get raid gear if we find a group willing to jump through hoops for money.  That's not necessarily P2W in the industry sense, because you still need a willing group who cares enough about plat to take you through.  
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That is so true. If you want to beat the fight, it will take a long time. But we're not talking about beating the fight. We're talking about getting the loot.
 
And if that's what you want, a conversation in the first minute of this YouTube video here tells us everything you need to do. It takes place upon discovering that one of the raid team is AFK and dies almost immediately, and someone asks if they'll be eligible for loot.
 
The response from the raid leader? "He'd get loot. He's in the room." Someone else helpfully chimes in with "Well, you only get loot if it's given to you."
 
Congrats on downing Maelstrom Authority, guys. Realm firsts for everyone! Even, as it turns out, the AFK guy whose screen is shown at the end of the video. And hey, thanks for the info.
 
 
 
This game, and others that use the same business model, allow a person to spend hundreds of dollars a month in exchange for currency that can be used to obtain anything in the game.
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