Report 606

Report #606
Skillset: Telepathy Skill: None
 Org: Shofangi Status: Completed Sept 2011
Furies' Decision:
We will implement solution 1.
Problem: Telepathy is by no means unworkable but still lacks a great deal
utility and specifically illusion ability compared to its sibling skill
telekinesis. With the advent of more advanced systems the illusions that
telepathy relies upon are becoming less and less effective. Telekinesis has an
advantage in this regard because it is able to deliver illusions under stun
which gives the illusion time to work in a manner of speaking, or under blackout
which enables a one line illusion to act as a two line illusion.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Cause the hallucinations ability to stun for 1s
 similar to TK trip (note that this is not a change to
 the hallucination affliction but to the ability, so
 just as trip delivers two afflictions stun and sprawl
 this would deliver hallucinations and stun).
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Add anorexia to to telepathy to allow a telepath to
 stall curing without total reliance on illusions (and
 as a less powerful equivalent to throatlock).
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Cause deadening to prevent focus mind until cured
 instead of its balance lengthening effect. Kombu
 should always cure deadening first if this is
 implemented.
Player Comments:
---[Neos on 9/16 @ 21:48 writes]:
I can't support this report until the affliction capabilities of Aeromancers are
toned down in relation to Telepathy. 8+ afflictions at once currently, and these
changes will make them stronger in overwhelming someone with afflictions. Will
follow up soon with a comment explaining my reasoning, have to double check
several things.
---[Wobou on 9/18 @ 04:48 writes]:
With the exception of the 3rd solution these solutions all have direct TK
equivalents (trip and throatlock) so basically TK aeros already have these
capabilities and aren't running rampant with it from what I've seen. That being
said this report does consist of strong buffs and so naturally good combos are
going to arise with these new abilities. For example a pyro tp would be able to
give anorexia slickness and asthma, geos and aquas will be able to stun spam
like TKs do, and as you pointed out an aero will be able to stack mental affs to
a greater degree. My point stands that the first two solutions are (arguably
inferior) analogies to TK skills, if the TKs of these guilds are balanced then
raising TPs to that level shouldn't have an effect, if they overpowered then
it's an attribute of the demesne itself and that should be looked in to.
---[Neos on 9/19 @ 16:49 writes]:
While I would love to see Telepaths actually able to stick afflictions, any
changes to Telepathy would make Aeromancer Telepaths even better than they are
now. As it is now, an Aeromancer Telepath can hit an opponent with 8-9
herb/focus/smoke cures on someone at once, usually 8 if they time it correctly,
9 if they use reality and get a tick lined up. I'd far prefer any changes to
Telepathys affliction capabilities to be done after the afflicting strength of
Aeromancers is toned down. The contributing factors to 8 afflictions at once:
beast/epilepsy(herb/focus), two telepathy afflictions(herb/focus),
miasma(herb/focus/possibly smoke/purgative), southwind(herb/focus/purgative),
cloudcoils(smoke), piercedlimbs(smoke), phantoms(herb/focus). Two of the
afflictions are an assured 3-4 seconds for herb
balance(cloudcoils/piercedlimbs), four masked afflictions, and the list of
afflictions given by miasma is varied but all are herb cures, with four being
solely herb cures, 1 purgative cured only. The Aeromancers demesne afflicts
with 5 afflictions at once, 4 of them being herb/focus, 1 being purgative(chills
from blizzard). Then adding in beast, phantoms, and two hits from Telepathy, and
even with both herb and focus balance being used simultaneously, that's 8
seconds to fully cure up most times. Add in the chance to stun from
hallucinations, stupidity, an illusion wasting herb balance, being off
balance(thus unable to diagnose for the herb only cures), and illwind slowing
balance recovery. Bringing it to nearly 10+ seconds to fully cure, and all this
can be done every ten seconds, sometimes without even trying. I myself have been
able to line up my Telepathy attacks with demesne tic, without even trying on
multiple occasions. Everything I just pointed out is how it works currently, now
adding in these changes, it becomes to much. I myself can only max out at 3
afflictions currently, 4 once I have spellcasting in Beastmastery, 5 with chills
from my demesne. Four seconds without demesne hitting, 5 with s
---[Neos on 9/19 @ 16:50 writes]:
The parts that were cut off: Four seconds without demesne hitting, 5 with stun,
to cure both afflictions from Telepathy and the one from claws. I'm okay with
Aeromancer Telepaths having an advantage on afflicting compared to other
Telepaths in other guilds, but their advantage is pretty big already. Sorry if
it seems a tad disjointed and long, but hopefully the point is gotten across.
---[Neos on 9/19 @ 16:55 writes]:
In response to your comment Wobou. At no point did I say that TK Aeromancers
were balanced, TK on its own merits is a bit unbalanced, but that's not the
problem at hand. Also, it's not possibly to stun spam, as there is an immunity
period, which gives the person time to start curing, nor does stun stack.
Slickness and asthma have two different cures. Yes, the problem lies with the
demesne, but it's only noticeable in connection with Telepathy. I believe
Telepathy is a very balanced, but weak skillset. On it's own, people are more
than capable of keeping up with the afflictions, but with Aeromancy, even trying
to run adds on afflictions(rainbowclouds), with the chance to be thrown back
in(squalls).
---[Raeri on 9/20 @ 10:48 writes]:
I'd actually support giving a stun upon afflicting with hallucinations, from any
source (i.e. change to the affliction, not just the ability - thus helping
Runists too!). Definate no to solution 2 though (Would overly buff pyros too
much, imo).
---[Shedrin on 9/21 @ 00:42 writes]:
Okay a few things. First, I disagree that TK is unbalanced. I think TK is at
about the perfect level of balance, so all further comments stem from that
perspective. Second, about Aeromancer afflictions: It's important to keep in
mind that, especially with Telepathy, the majority of those afflictions have a
focus mind and herb cure, thus it's not as overwhelming as superficially seems
the case. The math in Neos' comment is correct, and an Aero TP maxes out at 10
afflictions at once assuming Phantom, Reality, Thunderbird, TP combo, and a
demesne hit. Blizzard is purgative though, and there is no defense stripping
effect in Aero demesne, so likely all it will do is strip fire. So that's 9 herb
afflictions, with ~7 of them being focusable (depending on what Miasma does).
Assuming trans Discipline and neutral herb balance (1.5 second focus and herb
balance), all afflictions can be cured by the time Super channel is regained.
And if not, then certainly all by the time of the next demesne hit. Note: This
is assuming 1v1. With illusions thrown into the mix, then depending on luck and
how good the opponent's anti-illusion is, afflictions can begin to stack.
Further, an Aeromancer demesne does not offer as much movement hindering
compared to Geo demesnes especially, and it offers very little sip pressure.
---[Shedrin on 9/21 @ 00:42 writes]:
Now with all that said, Aero demesne is very powerful, and any changes would
need to be looked at to make sure it isn't too overwhelming. For the solutions
in specific, I am reticent to support solution 2 due to the slickness + asthma +
anorexia combo in a Pyromancer demesne. Solution 3 is a rather radical change,
but theoretically, it may act as a nerf in some respects for 1v1 at least.
Currently, there is a chance that an opponent may focus mind under deadening,
thus suffering the increased recovery. If solution 3 goes in, it will force an
herb cure, but they'll know pretty quickly if they have the affliction or not,
so shouldn't lose too much focus time. Likely this will be too powerful in
groups, though. Solution 1 then seems the best, with one change: change
Hallucinations to Id only, or at least the stunning effect from Id only. It
would give TPs a bit of hindering and greater variety in illusions. Geomancers
and Aquamancers would be able to stun a large portion of the time (as TKs can do
currently), but not continually, of course.
---[Wobou on 9/22 @ 13:51 writes]:
Helping runists in that way sounds good to me Raeri the only problems are there
are a fair number of other sources. I'll list the ones that I know of: Aeonics
echoes, druid pollen, harmonics sapphire, miasma, heretic/infidel, investable
angel attack, moon ray in astrology, greywhispers, phantom, pyro salamanders,
justchorale in starhymn (I think), an colourmaelstrom in glamours. Many of those
I wouldn't have a problem with (angels can already deliver stun + sprawl anyway,
heretic and infidel affs are fairly weak, rays in general are relatively weak,
etc.) however changing the affliction itself would give a bunch of these
passives a chance to stun which seems like a bit too much. @Neos: I just don't
see why a whole skillset should be held back due to a guild that already has the
ability to do what you're fearing. I personally think that the second and third
solutions may be too powerful but that the first is a reasonable compromise that
will greatly assist telepaths without causing insane overpoweredness in and of
itself.
---[Neos on 9/22 @ 18:55 writes]:
I'm 100% behind helping Telepaths actually stick afflictions, I'm against
boosting Aeromancer Telepaths. I don't believe solution 1 will fix the problem
of actually sticking afflictions, as the opponent still has 5 seconds to cure
two, max four afflictions from the non-Aero Telepath, with both focus mind and
herbs. 1s stun, possibly 2 seconds wasted on illusions, eat pennyroyal(since
they know it's hallucinations and what herb to use), focus mind, all clear.
Total time is 4 or so seconds, with 2 seconds to spare. Now compare that to an
Aeromancer, where they already can delay curing and diagnosing pretty well.
Solution 2: regular Telepaths have no smoke cured afflictions that are cured
before anorexia, it will also give Aeromancers three assured smoke cured
afflictions, on top of their four masked afflictions. The same effect could be
achieved by illusions. I like Solution three, but it wont change much, as once
they see they cant use focus mind, they eat kombu, and done, compared to
Aeromancers, who can hit with three kombu cured afflictions at once, along with
four of their afflictions being masked, so theyll only be able to cure
cloudcoils and piercedlimbs, and nothing else until they are able to diagnose.
More to possibly come.
---[Morbo on 9/23 @ 03:27 writes]:
Solution 1 sounds fine, as long as it adds a stun immunity for a short time
---[Shedrin on 9/23 @ 03:29 writes]:
Consider that for a Telepath, sticking afflictions isn't the main goal, getting
ego down is. The afflictions are just meant to last long enough to help delay
ego curing. For Aeromancers, the large amount of afflictions helps this, but
this is a sacrifice for doing very little direct damage to divert sipping to
health and a comparitive lack of movement hindering. In my experience, I've been
largely unable to stack afflictions as an Aeromancer TP barring bad curing
and/or willpower drain.
---[Sidd on 9/26 @ 19:40 writes]:
I like solution 1 the most, I'm unsure why people are against the
anorexia/slickness/asthma combo as anorexia is a focus cure and can be cured off
with focus leading to slickness and asthma being cured after. That being said, I
think solution 1 will do more to help slow down curing than the others