147398-why-is-nobody-addressing-the-issue-with-runing

== Content ==
			
This is honestly ridiculous. Carbine's attempt to make runing equipment easier has backfired majorly. It's now impossible to find major set and class foci. Foci are going for upwards of 5 plat EACH for a single focus. Considering it takes 5 Pure set focus per item piece, a fully runed set of ilvl 96 raid gear it would cost upwards of 260 Plat to rune your entire gear set. 
 
I thought they were trying to make runing easier overall? I had no problems personally with the previous drop rates for foci, it was challenging, yet ACHIEVABLE. For someone that works 9 hours a day 5 days a week farming Plat for hours a night is not feasible. 
 
I understand the cry to make the game tougher but all it's doing is bottlenecking newbies from the spectacular end-game raid content. I joined Wildstar back in 2014 because it didn't feel like a part time job like WoW, and personally I'm tempted to drop it until I get a word on what's going on with this.
 
 
 
 	
----
			Runing has been a mess from the start so this is nothing new. This version is marginally better than the last few iterations and has had to carry a lot of water for the overall stat changes and balance changes this time around so obviously couldn't be all it could be.I'm the last person to defend the rune system, but it is slowly getting better in at least some ways.I still miss the old CBC system so I'll never be happy with Runes, but I'll survive.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Runing has been a mess from the start so this is nothing new. This version is marginally better than the last few iterations and has had to carry a lot of water for the overall stat changes and balance changes this time around so obviously couldn't be all it could be.
 
I'm the last person to defend the rune system, but it is slowly getting better in at least some ways.
 
I still miss the old CBC system so I'll never be happy with Runes, but I'll survive.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I understand the introduction of a "trade up" system and the nerf for Mordecai's and Stormtalon's fusion runes but I don't see how lowering the drop rate for set focus runes is a step forward; I thought it was practically a bug when I first logged in after the patch.
----
			
I bought about 14-15 pure rune bags from the raid vendor after getting some gear from my first GA raid and ended up with 141 fragments and zero major pure set focus :(
 
And yeah, prices are about 5 plat a piece for the majors.
 
Currently seems broken.	
----
			
As someone who has a Pure Class Set, its well worth the money.
 
You'd be amazed on how much it shoots up your DPS. Same can be said with exceptional runes, they really do shoot up your DPS/Heals/Survivability(Spellcheck?) as a tank.
 
I really don't see how it's an issue.
			
				
	Edited November 23, 2015 by Killance	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As someone who has a Pure Class Set, its well worth the money.
 
You'd be amazed on how much it shoots up your DPS. Same can be said with exceptional runes, they really do shoot up your DPS/Heals/Survivability(Spellcheck?) as a tank.
 
I really don't see how it's an issue.
----
			Farm raids and distribute them among your raiders. The fragment change will let you at the very least put the appropriate ilvl in your gear. Which is a huge power spike. The comparison between the power spikes isn't as much. In the current iteration of the system you walk in with normal runes then upgrade from raids.It's a half baked system and will probably remain that way for months. But there are ways around it to avoid paying any plat. I personally would never buy them from the AH.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pure major class focus runes are currently 15 plat each on Jabbit. Yeah no problem there...
----
			heres what blows my brain...you need RAID GEAR to pu​t these runes into, and you get them from RAIDS. are you mad that your whole raid group doesn't have their class set from 1 run or something?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
heres what blows my brain...
 
you need RAID GEAR to pu​t these runes into, and you get them from RAIDS. are you mad that your whole raid group doesn't have their class set from 1 run or something?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
heres what blows my brain...
 
you need RAID GEAR to pu​t these runes into, and you get them from RAIDS. are you mad that your whole raid group doesn't have their class set from 1 run or something?
----
			1-2 pure sets per boss (if lucky), 20 people want it. Ideally you want at least 4 per item. You do the math.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
1-2 pure sets per boss (if lucky), 20 people want it. Ideally you want at least 4 per item. You do the math.
----
			
can we clarify something here?
 
are you talking about "Set Focuses" or "Class Set Focuses"? set focuses are needed for every rune so you need about 25-30 of those, while class set focuses are only needed for class specific rune sets like prevention or atomic charge and such which you would only ideally need 3 majors and 2 minors per person.
 
the drop rate of "class focuses" is fine however the drop rate of just regular set focuses is low and imo the problem you are describing. a lot of people above are saying "class focuses" while others are saying "set focuses" so please be more clear in which you have a problem with.	
----
			Yeah the main problem is the Pure Set Focus - Major and NOT the class focus. For example(Jabbit): There are only FOUR Pure Set Focus - Major in the CX for 8.4p
			
				
	Edited November 23, 2015 by Ghosst	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
can we clarify something here?
 
are you talking about "Set Focuses" or "Class Set Focuses"? set focuses are needed for every rune so you need about 25-30 of those, while class set focuses are only needed for class specific rune sets like prevention or atomic charge and such which you would only ideally need 3 majors and 2 minors per person.
 
the drop rate of "class focuses" is fine however the drop rate of just regular set focuses is low and imo the problem you are describing. a lot of people above are saying "class focuses" while others are saying "set focuses" so please be more clear in which you have a problem with.
----
			so the issue is that there is something not required but nice to have that gives you a solid boost on the top and you don't want to work for it? when the next raid comes out i can almost garantee you those class sets will last, you'll be using 3 class sets, and like everything else - when the people who want it bad enough get it, the price will drop... but it's a relatively new thing added to the game, so the auction house will be on short supply for a while. there are serious raiders clearning w/ basic runes in their gear... if you want to have the set faster, then farm plat between lockouts... and how inthe world do you think it takes that long to pvp for plat? you think you ONLY make 45/75g per game? get good and you can smash people for alot of extra prestige, win or lose - then you walk out of games with a fat amount of pestige, getting around 1 rune bag per bg pop, you can easily make 5-6 plat an hour... maybe you're playing a different game than me?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm mad that it will take literally months to finish one person's full rune set. Does this not make sense to anyone? 
Last time I finished GA I think we got at max 6 Major Pure set foci.
 
Every week on a friday our group raids for about 5 hours. We may or may not defeat omhna depending on which people are online in our guild. Still following me? Good.
If we're being generous, lets say we get about 8 MAJOR SET Foci on average from a full 5 hour raid run. Lets unrealistically say these 8 foci are distributed to one person of the group EACH WEEKLY RAID. ONE person would have to raid for 3 Fridays straight to be able to fill out their full 21 rune set full of armor. 3 Weeks per person multiplied by 20 people means 60 weeks of freeing up our fridays for 5 hours to fill out everyone's gear. This, ignoring the fact that we have to swap people out on Fridays because of scheduling issues, that leaves us about 10 people that still need their runes. 
 
But hey, maybe one of our guildies missed the raid on friday and instead chooses to buy the materials from the CX. Alright, so that's currently 8p 40g on the auction house per pure major focus. 8p 40g x 21 pure set runes = 176.4 plat. Oh but what if he needs class set runes instead? Those are going for 27 Plat currently on the CX, no big deal right? 27p x 21 = 567 plat. Totally doable.
 
So, all he has to do is farm pvp for a while. About 45 gold a round if he loses, 75 if he wins, our guildie would have to win a solid 132 PvP matches or lose 392 . Alright, no problem. Dude has a dick the size of the great wall of China, wins all 132 matches. Halls of the Bloodsworn takes about 15 minutes on a complete stomp, 45 if there's a stalemate, and lets say there are people queuing nonstop 24hrs a day 7 days a week (COMPLETELY REALISTIC). So 15 x 132 = 1980 minutes or 33 hours non stop, no *cupcake*, no food, no nothing player vs player action to get those *cupcake* runes for his PvE raid gear. Oh no? What's that? He needs class foci instead? Alright well that's only 756 rounds he has to win. 15 x 756 = 11340 hours, 7.85 days. Fella is practically a starcraft player. Oh, did I mention there's only 4 Major set foci on the CX exchange right now? That might be an issue too, but we won't factor that in, because we're being (COMPLETELY REALISTIC).
 
Not everyone has the time to devote to joining a raiding circle and farming their ass off, let alone the fact you can't even start a new raid if you're currently doing one with your own guild mates. People shouldn't be forced to play PvP to acquire their PvE gear, there's a reason why each server has a PvE and PvP realm, so that people can CHOOSE what kind of content they want to experience. Not to mention this doesn't even cover raids beyond GA and the cost to switch over to divine foci.
 
There's no "ohh huh well why don't you play more instead of complaining, carbine is flawless in everything they do, you should quit your job to raid every day like me". The math is there and unless I've forgotten to carry over a zero there's no way that you can ask someone who plays semi casually to fulfill this kind of requirement to experience their end game content.
----
			Why do you think they put in rune bags for glory. And u don't need majors in all ur gear. Maybe for you class bis gear, the minor drop like candy. And we're talking min/max your gear. There's 35 slots to use compare to 79 you used before and exceptionals cost the same and some other sets just as expensive. It is way cheaper now to rune your gear than it use to be. Also find the specific rune u want on ah. Just smh over here and the qq for the price of bis items. There's got to be some form of gold sink in the game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Here is the thing. That is how long it would take a none raider to do this. 72 hours for a perfect set of Tier One Runes, and you never have to set foot in a raid or spend a bit of plat. Now assuming your guild does raid and any of this is relevant, you will have the set foci that drop in your raids of which you can expect maybe one or two a week, and once you all have some raid gear and do not need all the drops (which is when this discussion is relevant anyway) you will get some more from Diss Enchanting gear. Until then use minor runes, and lose out on a few percent tryharder dps while you wait for the AH to stabilize a bit. GA is easy enough to do in basic runes, and thanks to f2p and all the rune changes there are not enough runes to go around right this instant a month from now it will be a different story, and if the drop rate is changed everyone will be mad that they can not make any money of set foci anymore. 
----
			And by my math they would make essentially 10 dollars an hour doing it since Pure Exceptionals cost about the same as a C.R.E.D. and take on an extreme end two hours apiece to farm. Too bad we can't sell C.R.E.D. back to Carbine. I want a new side job, and I bet I could get that down to an hour per exceptional if I pushed for 8-9min stl runs. My best time so far is like 9 minutes 15 seconds.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And by my math they would make essentially 10 dollars an hour doing it since Pure Exceptionals cost about the same as a C.R.E.D. and take on an extreme end two hours apiece to farm. Too bad we can't sell C.R.E.D. back to Carbine. I want a new side job, and I bet I could get that down to an hour per exceptional if I pushed for 8-9min stl runs. My best time so far is like 9 minutes 15 seconds.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is possibly the most polemic post I have seen, and it is factually incorrect. Honestly, I will be the unpopular voice and point out that the drop rate of Pure Major Set foci is fine. Why? Well, because, I averaged about 1/5 over the course of 60,000 glory. That is 200 Pure rune bags opened between me and some friends and we had 43 Pure Set Foci Major drop.
 
Let's be honest about runes, so we can get a grasp on what this means. For an Esper you actually Rune 6/6 in one set with 2 Pure exceptions and one Superb, and then either 2/4 or 3/4 in another set depending on the slot (Onslaught 4 piece sucks), so let's be generous and assume you are going try hard waiting on your class set from Raid, and running as good as you can. That means on your helm, chest, hands, and weapon you have 3 pure exceptionals, then on feet, legs, and shoulders four (you went ham and got 4/6 Onslaught for some reason). That means a total of 24 Pure Exceptional Runes required for a perfect GA set (minus your class runes which you get from your Raid team).  Now lets multiply that 24 by 5 to get 120 Glory bags which equates to 36,000 glory with an average drop rate. Now STL takes between 10 and 15 minutes with a raid group and gives about 125 glory, so assuming just STL spam it would take 72 hours of farming to get a full set.
 
Here is the thing. That is how long it would take a none raider to do this. 72 hours for a perfect set of Tier One Runes, and you never have to set foot in a raid or spend a bit of plat. Now assuming your guild does raid and any of this is relevant, you will have the set foci that drop in your raids of which you can expect maybe one or two a week, and once you all have some raid gear and do not need all the drops (which is when this discussion is relevant anyway) you will get some more from Diss Enchanting gear. Until then use minor runes, and lose out on a few percent tryharder dps while you wait for the AH to stabilize a bit. GA is easy enough to do in basic runes, and thanks to f2p and all the rune changes there are not enough runes to go around right this instant a month from now it will be a different story, and if the drop rate is changed everyone will be mad that they can not make any money of set foci anymore. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah that would work great, the issue is that these focus runes are NOT DROPPING from glory bags. I've opened 16 Pure Rune bags in the past week and I have got one Pure Major Set Focus to show for it. Do you have a concept of supply and demand? The less there are of these things in the market the higher the price is, and considering fully runed gear is a requirement for most raiding guilds there's a catch 22 in that people without the sets can't get the materials they need because they don't have good enough gear to efficiently run the raids. From now on anyone hitting 50 will require this stuff, there is no waiting until the market calms down when hundreds of people and climbing need these runes. Currently there are only 4 major set runes on the CXE, and what, for a population of 1000 people? You think that's anywhere near reasonable?
 
 
Of course you guys with an already fully runed set before the patch aren't going to understand the issue with this because you won't have to drop hundreds of plat to get up to the point where you're capable of dealing consistent damage or even able to heal your teammates who are are miles ahead of you because they got in on the rune action before the patch. Coming from a PvE Stalker, we need runes to even compete with other classes on the damage board.
 
And frankly, PvP is in an even worse situation. People that are fully runed before the patch will be more likely to stomp those that are just coming into it. Runes aren't a little bonus, they're the dividing line between doing damage to your opponents and being completely useless in a team match. Do you really want to deter new players from getting interested in this game? Wildstar is a game that brings uniqueness into the MMORPG world, just because turning a part of the game into a grindy cash sink is a tradition in the industry doesn't mean it needs to be brought into this game.
----
			
I have no issue with CLASS SET foci being a bit tougher to get and only from raids.  I see them as a "raid tier bonus" like in WoW.
 
Just REGULAR set focuses (like devistation) are aggravating to get.  Probably have dumped over 20k glory into bags and haven't gotten a single one.  Not as  much as other people, but, at least one..?
 
And yeah "your guild should give them to you"  is a bit annoying for me, personally.  I can't raid with a set schedule atm. I run with pugs/fill in for missing guild groups.  Again I'm fine with not getting the class set, but having to use such low lvl runes just to get a set bonus in high level gear feels so gross. 
 
And before someone says "you don't raid, you don't need it" - I do raid, just not on a fixed time or with a fixed group.  But I guess I don't deserve a way to get them without having to farm plat non stop huh.	
----
			
you raid less, so you get it slower. whats your point exactly?
I agree that its grindy to get BiS 120 with all mayor runes and 2(for some classes 3 because of augmentor) sets but you dont need all mayor in your gear. the encounters are not balanced around that. all you need is minors (4/6 or 5/6 bonus of 1 set) and over time you will get more gear and also major runes. and you can speed this up by raiding regularly with a guild OR grinding dungeons. if you do neither, you dont deserve it NOW. period.
			
				
	Edited November 23, 2015 by furoflo	
----
			
Your main source of set focii are not supposed to come from bags; that's just a nice little bonus they added so that non-raiders can obtain them.
 
I absolutely agree that the amount that drops from raids are too low though; needs to be doubled at least.
 
I see more class focii from raids than i do set focii majors.
 
However, one thing you should probably get used to doing for now -- at least for divine level -- is get people with blue sets (minors) until you get 120 gear for your divine majors to use them on.
Once you get these runes you never have to get them again, since you should probably be recovering them later on.
			
				
	Edited November 23, 2015 by MoePork	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your main source of set focii are not supposed to come from bags; that's just a nice little bonus they added so that non-raiders can obtain them.
 
I absolutely agree that the amount that drops from raids are too low though; needs to be doubled at least.
 
I see more class focii from raids than i do set focii majors.
 
However, one thing you should probably get used to doing for now -- at least for divine level -- is get people with blue sets (minors) until you get 120 gear for your divine majors to use them on.
Once you get these runes you never have to get them again, since you should probably be recovering them later on.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Off-topic, but dude, your signature is way out of date!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We expect min/max from our members so non-exceptional unless it's optimal for ur class (ex. 5/6 cynosure healslinger) is a nogo. We use a DKP system and it's so bad that feel forced to spend all of my DKP on set foci, but that leaves rest of the guild without, having to pay (current price) 15 plat per major pure set focus.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We expect min/max from our members so non-exceptional unless it's optimal for ur class (ex. 5/6 cynosure healslinger) is a nogo. We use a DKP system and it's so bad that feel forced to spend all of my DKP on set foci, but that leaves rest of the guild without, having to pay (current price) 15 plat per major pure set focus.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Plat is not hard to come by nowadays. 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you should reconsider this. its really expensive to do that 3 times (GA -> 116 -> 120) and just leads to burn out and people performing worse. DKP system is outdated.
just give the class sets to people who min/max or perform best in their roles as a reward. best player gets first pinky from avatus. dont force people to min/max rather reward good play.
 
i agree that the current price is way too high. last time i checked it was <8p on jabbit and buy orders were around 4-6p (pure/divine).
 
personally the last patch was very profitable for me using ~60k glory to BiS rune my main char and 5/6 runing my alt (to soon progress in DS with twink raid). i didnt bother grinding or buying hundreds of plat for a small gain before and didnt need it for the current content and i wont need BiS runes with my alt as well. knowing the encounters is more important than the ~5%-10% you get with minmax.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
all it's doing is bottlenecking newbies from the spectacular end-game raid content.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is honestly ridiculous. Carbine's attempt to make runing equipment easier has backfired majorly. It's now impossible to find major set and class foci. Foci are going for upwards of 5 plat EACH for a single focus. Considering it takes 5 Pure set focus per item piece, a fully runed set of ilvl 96 raid gear it would cost upwards of 260 Plat to rune your entire gear set. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well we didn't expect to steamroll GA and now we probably will be stuck on SD for a while. So every little stat helps. The major pure set focus is insanely expensive on Luminai, the low population might be the problem. But everything is more expensive on Luminai. 1 CREDD (20 dollars) = 1 major pure set focus. Reasonable?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
not reasonable at all so its even worse imo to expect everyone to min/max.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We expect min/max from our members so non-exceptional unless it's optimal for ur class (ex. 5/6 cynosure healslinger) is a nogo.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, don't do this :(  You will wear out your raid team and it isn't going to make THAT much of a difference.
 
You can work up to it, but if people are putting the non-exceptionals in, that's fine. Once you are working on SD, you'll be farming GA and get a handful of foci drops each week. Then you can gear up a little bit at at time. The main thing about SD is going to be learning the mechanics, not squeezing out min/max DPS.
 
To be clear, you have people in 9/9 guilds telling you you don't need to min/max these, and they are probably the only people who would ever "need" to.
 
------
 
I agree with everyone who is saying the major set foci drops are off and the class set foci are in a good place. I think we got something like 3 (maybe I'm wrong, but it really did feel like 3) major set foci this past week, while we got 12 major class foci. That's one full clear of GA. I do think we tend to average more like 7-10 major set foci per clear.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, the same people (mostly) did not progress after f2p. Even so, we already have members that min/max and in turn they expect the same from others. Just the nature of things.. We also get more class foci than set foci. It's turned on it's ass and it's something that Carbine should consider changing. Regardless if me or my guild wants to min/max the costs are too much and they're too rare for just being runes.
----
			So min/maxers are complaining they have to grind longer to achieve better stats than those who aren't min/maxing.If you choose to min/max you choose the harder route. Purely your choice so i cant see the reason to cry about a choice you make  :huh:	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you need ga gear to use the pure set foci, you get the foci by doing ga bosses, If you went and bought ga/ds BOE why should it be easy to rune them with pure/divine set runes? 
 
 
this whole thread and all the ones i have seen around it are just whiner threads. If you want to get the set foci then get off this forum and go to ga and get them 
----
			
you need ga gear to use the pure set foci, you get the foci by doing ga bosses, If you went and bought ga/ds BOE why should it be easy to rune them with pure/divine set runes? 
 
 
this whole thread and all the ones i have seen around it are just whiner threads. If you want to get the set foci then get off this forum and go to ga and get them 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
But the major set foci drop rate is super low. We're talking about a one-per-week instance here that grants a handful per week. The drop rate needs to be increased.
 
(This is not a problem for my guild, because we actually banked quite a few pure major set foci before the most recent change, but it's going to be a problem when we start getting more DS gear).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Huh, whut?  Salvage all the BoP GA gear and you should have more than enough set foci to pass around.  
----
			I think salvaging raid level gear with slots should provide at least one major set focus. May be 1 garanteed major set focus. May be 1 minor set focus as well or with some chance. It's not going to fix the situation completely, but farming 2k glory for garanteed rune focus is more reasonable that farming 10k for a slim chance of getting 1.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think salvaging raid level gear with slots should provide at least one major set focus. May be 1 garanteed major set focus. May be 1 minor set focus as well or with some chance. It's not going to fix the situation completely, but farming 2k glory for garanteed rune focus is more reasonable that farming 10k for a slim chance of getting 1.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well tbh, the same people (mostly) did not progress after f2p. Even so, we already have members that min/max and in turn they expect the same from others. Just the nature of things.. We also get more class foci than set foci. It's turned on it's ass and it's something that Carbine should consider changing. Regardless if me or my guild wants to min/max the costs are too much and they're too rare for just being runes.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Your on SD I assume, so that means, learn to not move with purge, 
----
			
I dont understand the problem ...
 
yes runebag have not so much focis , but ilvl 96+ items you get in GA / DS. I think most people raid with a guild ... just take all focis in bank and give it to people who need it.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
they need to balance the difference between the glory bags and the stuff you get from salvaging ilvl96+ stuff.
imo we get way too much fragments atm and not enough set foci.
 
they also only implemented a part of the change that was on the PTR. you were getting alot more fragments and foci on the PTR with salvaging but the glory bags were the same.
I think we will see another patch soon when they fixed whatever delayed the full runepatch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I dont understand the problem ...
 
yes runebag have not so much focis , but ilvl 96+ items you get in GA / DS. I think most people raid with a guild ... just take all focis in bank and give it to people who need it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I see good enough pattern here: salvage gear, get some focuses and some rune fragments. Not enough fragments is ok. Open rune bags for fragments, do not hope to get focuses. You don't have full control, but excessive focus drop is not a problem, since you get not so much.
And they implemented a patch that simulatenously boosted fragments drops from bags and screwed fragments and focus drops from items. At that moment fragments were not that much a of a problem due to availability of full runes from pre-F2P tockens and inability to get enough fragments. Now nearly every major focus/rune from that time is spent and current income of focuses shows up.
----
			
I agree that the drop rate for pure set focuses seems off. I've purchased 40+ pure runecrafting bags and have gotten one pure set focus out of it. Salvaging GA gear has netted me a few frags and that's it. My guild gets class focuses in raids far more frequently than set focuses, which is weird IMO.
 
I would appreciate it if we could trade in set focuses the same way we can trade in fragments. With some farming you can absolutely attain superb set focuses, and being able to exchange them for pures (and pures for divines) would be fantastic.	
----
			
While I agree the major foci need to drop more they are not necessary in the slightest in order to progress. With all the changes to abilities/runes the power increase is absolutely ridiculous. Once you're in full GA gear if you have any clue how to play your class you already have enough dps to get through most of the DPS checks in DS. Then once you're in 116/120 gear the only reason you'll wipe is by failing mechanics.
 
@Pushba your guild is absolutely idiotic for forcing your members to min/max sets. Good god that is just *cupcake*ing horrible. The amount you gain vs the cost of having perfect runes is not worth it and, I will repeat, not at all necessary.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
While I agree the major foci need to drop more they are not necessary in the slightest in order to progress. With all the changes to abilities/runes the power increase is absolutely ridiculous. Once you're in full GA gear if you have any clue how to play your class you already have enough dps to get through most of the DPS checks in DS. Then once you're in 116/120 gear the only reason you'll wipe is by failing mechanics.
 
@Pushba your guild is absolutely idiotic for forcing your members to min/max sets. Good god that is just *cupcake*ing horrible. The amount you gain vs the cost of having perfect runes is not worth it and, I will repeat, not at all necessary.
----
			I've hit that wall long before FTP when I realized I was not a 'hardcore' enough of a player to be able to participate in the end game content. I'm still throwing my money at this game because I love a lot of aspects about it dispite the fact that I feel completely shut out of end game content simply because of the costs for gearing up properly is unreachable. In the end, I agree that this is a problem.  I get Carbine wants to give players something to spend money on, but I wish they didn't make a major technical part of endgame content their target for an in game money sinkhole for gear that could be replaced in a week or two with luck. Or at least I'd be more all right with some less steep prices just in the act of runecrafting.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I've hit that wall long before FTP when I realized I was not a 'hardcore' enough of a player to be able to participate in the end game content. I'm still throwing my money at this game because I love a lot of aspects about it dispite the fact that I feel completely shut out of end game content simply because of the costs for gearing up properly is unreachable. 
 
In the end, I agree that this is a problem.  I get Carbine wants to give players something to spend money on, but I wish they didn't make a major technical part of endgame content their target for an in game money sinkhole for gear that could be replaced in a week or two with luck. Or at least I'd be more all right with some less steep prices just in the act of runecrafting.
----
			
My current issue with Runes, from https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/147447-divine-set-focus-major/
 
So today there are 25 D.S.F.M.s on the AH(at 20p each), enough for one person to buy runes for their gear.
 
Getting them from raiding is kinda silly honestly. One boss drops 2-3 pieces of gear that have slots, that's 8-12 DFSM slots to be filled, same boss drops ONE, maybe two, DSFMs. Isn't it retarded easy to see that there will be a gross shortage of these things.
 
Not to mention the drop rate from rune crafting bags is about 5% or less. So getting all 4 would cost you about 20,000 glory(and thats just ONE PIECE OF GEAR!). The fragment change was nice, and needed, but they have removed one problem and just created an even bigger one(rune-ing gear is even more expensive now).
 
Who ever is in charge of this games economy needs to get their shit together. Hey devs, you wanna know what kills fresh 50s desire to play more than anything else. Getting to 50 and finding out that its going to cost you 500+ plat to compete with raiders who were playing before free to play and got a bunch of exceptional tokens for, essentially, free. Hope your listening.
 
Seriously, how are we supposed to recruit these new players when the power level is VASTLY different(10-15k single target dps vs sub 6k dps) It wouldn't be such a huge issue if 75% of player power didn't come from high ilvl runes. Most stop showing up cause they KNOW they are getting carried big time("It just feels like I'm not contributing anything to the raid"), and then we have to start rune-ing up FtP raiders all over again.
			
				
	Edited November 24, 2015 by Dreamwalk	
----
			
Oh oh I just thought of a pretty cool solution. Have every single boss award personal loot of 1 major to each player in the raid.
Boom.
Wait... I forgot Carbine needs cash. Dang it.
			
				
	Edited November 24, 2015 by Floross	
----
			That could work, maybe cap it at 5 a week. So, if you are actually killing bosses, you will be able to AT LEAST rune out one piece of gear a week. I don't feel like that is too much of a handout, I really just want my new raiders to have something to look forward to. With the system we have now people get upgrades and dont wear them until the runes are in the piece. An ilvl 80 piece with runes is better than an ilvl 100 piece without runes(same with 96/100 vs 116/120). Seems very backwards that gear upgrades are actually downgrades until the runes are popped out and transferred over.	
----
			
We are so close to a System Daemons kill.  Even if I don't get any drops I'm going to be faced with runing four new 116 pieces (2x for both main and off specs. 
 
Not really happy about the current costs but I think I'm going to stick with the 1-pointer set runes until I get enough major foci to make exceptionals and I get a best-in-slot piece (some 116's are better than the 120's).  I just know that's going to continue to rub me the wrong way because lengthy grinds are exhausting and feel artificial.
 
Yes the drop rates are far too low and need to be brought up.  Gear salvaging is a disaster, I get better value out of vendoring a piece.
 
That said, I think bringing slot management costs (add and reroll) down to Earth is a more urgent issue.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
We are so close to a System Daemons kill.  Even if I don't get any drops I'm going to be faced with runing four new 116 pieces (2x for both main and off specs. 
 
Not really happy about the current costs but I think I'm going to stick with the 1-pointer set runes until I get enough major foci to make exceptionals and I get a best-in-slot piece
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Hey devs, you wanna know what kills fresh 50s desire to play more than anything else. Getting to 50 and finding out that its going to cost you 500+ plat to compete with raiders who were playing before free to play and got a bunch of exceptional tokens for, essentially, free. Hope your listening.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
All the pro's bunny hop. Get with the times Orrestes. XD
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No offense... but if you say you are not hardcore enough to participate in game content, why is it an issue for you not to get end game gear? Because if you aren't doing end game content, then the rune issue is not an issue for you, or at least it shouldn't be. That's what confuses me, and it's not just you saying stuff like this. Then the second part where you mentioned costs... not being hardcore enough and feeling shut out of end game because of the costs of runing is not the same thing. If you feel shut out because you are not hardcore enough to farm the money needed for end game, well... that's an entirely different issue.
 
And your keyword in the second paragraph is luck. Yes you can get a replacement. This is where you need to weigh your options. Do you dump money on runes for a 116 piece, or do you do cheap runes and wait for the 120 piece? People have different opinions about this. But mine is if you are progressing well, then you should act as if you are going to get a token piece the next raid. So go cheap until you get your BIS piece. Again, my opinion.
----
			FWIW, runing with superb runes pre-raiding isn't that expensive. Set foci are quite abundant at the level of superb gear.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It doesn't mean I don't try though. And still keep trying, I just don't intend to delude myself that there is a chance I will be able to participate in end game content based on rune crafting costs (those alone aren't the only things that make it a huge challenge to be able to participate in end game content, and I'm aware of that. I have work and life to deal with, so I simply can't devout as much time as I'd like into the amount of time it takes to participate in end game content.) 
There is also the understanding that even though I know where I am at in terms of my game play, it doesn't make my opinion about runecrafting costs being moot. It would have been better I didn't mention that I am not a hardcore gamer, as it has nothing to do with this topic.
 
In the end my opinion is that the prices are just way too high. I'd prefer my challenges being in the game play than in farming for plat.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
An ilvl 80 piece with runes is better than an ilvl 100 piece without runes(same with 96/100 vs 116/120). Seems very backwards that gear upgrades are actually downgrades until the runes are popped out and transferred over.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I never said the costs weren't high. I was just dissecting your argument. But my main point, don't let plat deter you from end game if that is your main gripe.
 
But as Slyjeff stated, and as I have stated in several posts. You don't need the best runes to participate in end game content. Yes it will help do more DPS, but first you need to focus on staying alive during the encounter and not focus on your meters. Class sets aside, you can make due with 1 point sets on your gear as you work on progression. I was running sub-par runes and still did decent DPS (this is because I didn't spend a lot of time on contracts for exceptionals before the rune changes). Yeah, the recent addition of my class set gave me a significant boost to DPS once I got it, but we were still progressing on Avatus without it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And I never said you were disagreeing with that statement either.  
 
It's a nice vote of confidence to say that I shouldn't let the prices deter me from playing endgame content, but it still discourages me from participating because I simply don't like being one of those players that are being carried through. The gap between skilled players with cheap runes and skilled players with costly runes is immense, and is my honest interest is seeing less of a gap, either by making it easier to rune gear costwise, or some other means.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And I never said you were disagreeing with that statement either.  
 
It's a nice vote of confidence to say that I shouldn't let the prices deter me from playing endgame content, but it still discourages me from participating because I simply don't like being one of those players that are being carried through. The gap between skilled players with cheap runes and skilled players with costly runes is immense, and is my honest interest is seeing less of a gap, either by making it easier to rune gear costwise, or some other means.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh I understand that angle. They do need to increase the focus drop now. But, I only argue against the idea you MUST have the best runes. I get it though, you want to eventually have the best items in the game, we all do. The end game stuff is fun (a pain in the ass challenge, but still fun), and I wouldn't let min/maxing and the plat it takes to do that to ruin a good time :)
 
Our 3rd raid group (working on GA) is recruiting, so if you don't have a raid, we may have a spot for you. We are dominion :)
 
And we have several canadians in the guild already :P
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Much appreciated for the offer! :) 
 
For now I've got a bit more to practice and learn so I can be less of a burden right out the gate, along with figuring out better time frames for myself, but thanks for the offer! 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
Who ever is in charge of this games economy needs to get their shit together. Hey devs, you wanna know what kills fresh 50s desire to play more than anything else. Getting to 50 and finding out that its going to cost you 500+ plat to compete with raiders who were playing before free to play and got a bunch of exceptional tokens for, essentially, free. Hope your listening.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That could work, maybe cap it at 5 a week. So, if you are actually killing bosses, you will be able to AT LEAST rune out one piece of gear a week. I don't feel like that is too much of a handout, I really just want my new raiders to have something to look forward to. With the system we have now people get upgrades and dont wear them until the runes are in the piece. An ilvl 80 piece with runes is better than an ilvl 100 piece without runes(same with 96/100 vs 116/120). Seems very backwards that gear upgrades are actually downgrades until the runes are popped out and transferred over.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait so you want to compete with raiders after 2 months when it took us a year to get full 120s? 
 
Yea no go grind and earn it like we did.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh oh I just thought of a pretty cool solution. Have every single boss award personal loot of 1 major to each player in the raid.
Boom.
Wait... I forgot Carbine needs cash. Dang it.
----
			I agree that there should be a grind and I think the problem with the current drop rate is exacerbated by the fact that many veteran players are still buying Divines so they can get back to BiS.  So thats probably a big reason supply seems exceptionally (XD) low, because the demand is still elevated above normal.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait so you want to compete with raiders after 2 months when it took us a year to get full 120s? 
 
Yea no go grind and earn it like we did.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What kind of hellish MMO is this that demands players grind for a year to compete on a level playing field? A good MMO would have fresh, new content released during that time instead of prolonging the treadmill with this stupid shit. Grinding a year for anything makes for a god awful, tedius, boring game . . . a game that's made purely to entice idiots to throw good money after a horrible design.
 
Woo hoo! Have the time of your life grinding for a year or spend hundreds of dollars on CREDD and buy those runes.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yes, I want my new players to not do 25-40% of the damage that the rest of us do. I dislike like that when we are gearing up new people they dont see any increase in dps because runes=damage. The major hurdle of raiding should be KILLING THE BOSS and getting the drops, not grinding for hours and hours for plat.   Most people who raid, log in>raid>log out. In wildstar if you want to compete(not be just as good as) with the oldschool raiders(we have over a year of practice at our class and the boss mechs. this is were the gap should be not how many full rune sets you have in your gear) than you have to spend about 10x the time you do raiding grinding plat for runes. The game should reward you for playing well and downing the boss MORE than is does for grinding out plat and buying upgrades in the form of runes.
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
Do you even raid bro? Salvaging 96-100 gear gives you nada, 2 augmented leathers. If you get a pure major set focus you're lucky at best. Stop trying to make this sound less of an issue. We aren't complaining just to be able to complain. This is a problem and should be fixed, if you don't raid then shut up cus you have no clue.
----
			
Depends on how much time is required between raids, tbh.
 
We actually have a few raid loggers who seem to do ok. Though that may have to do with where we are in progression right now (GA gear with a few DS pieces and not getting many upgrades).	
----
			Wait, a raider shouldn't have to grind out plat to raid, they just log and raid and the raid instance provides everything?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wait, a raider shouldn't have to grind out plat to raid, they just log and raid and the raid instance provides everything?
----
			Raiding is about teamplay and progression, not getting your worthless butt carried through all the bosses and farming loot from it. Why do you want your maxed out runes so quickly if you're just progressing on GA? You're not even gonna have gear to put them in until you're downing Ohmna.	
----
			I just runed out my esper alt spec.  I used all blue runes (because I have around 500 rune tokens still) on 10/11 116 gear and a 100 gear I placed GA class set in.  I was missing out on 10% multihit and 3% crit hit for doing that.  Focus pool and Focus Regen were the same.  If espers were not so heavily multithit for their healing, you can easily get better stats going for crit/focus pool.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just runed out my esper alt spec. I used all blue runes (because I have around 500 rune tokens still) on 10/11 116 gear and a 100 gear I placed GA class set in. I was missing out on 10% multihit and 3% crit hit for doing that. Focus pool and Focus Regen were the same. If espers were not so heavily multithit for their healing, you can easily get better stats going for crit/focus pool.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A assuming you have 30 mhs that's less than 4% dmg/healing yo! Youll whipes the raid because your group has 1% less total healing... or 0.2% less raid damage.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm going with good sarcasm here and if so, I approve. If not, well, um, 100 dps increase is alot. so maybe it is worth all that plat. (over 14 dps, that's a whole 1.4k dps!)
----