Report 1164

Report #1164
Skillset: Starhymn Skill: PrincessFarewell
 Org: Cantors Status: Completed Mar 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Cantors have traditionally focused on damage kills, with our kit aimed
at giving damaging afflictions and no passive drains. With the overhaul, this
has become much more difficult with the flattening of the damage curve, and
unfortunately Starhymn lacks reliable alternative kill routes. As a result,
Cantor combat currently relies heavily on the use of aeon via PrincessFarewell,
hoping for curing breakdowns or via luck-based exploitation of poor coding
through Dramaturgy to halt curing long enough for the damage to stack or a lucky
timed insta, but by its very nature this relies on completely shutting down the
target. Currently, PrincessFarewell is a 3p high-stanza targetted song which
applies stun/aeon/blackout to the target. This report aims to remove the heavy
reliance on aeon while providing Starhymn with a similarly powerful effect and
kill method which does not completely lock down the target's commands and allows
for more skill-based counterplay. (Other suggestions and number tweaks are also
welcome!)
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Remove the aeon and stun from princessfarewell. Apply
 new effect (I suggest Echo as a name) to target for
 ?10 second duration in which the following abilities
 will apply (their damage as well as afflict) twice to
 the target: Starlight, CrusaderCanto, Starchord,
 ColourSpray (+ColourBurst), RainbowPattern,
 Warrior(Tarot), Pratfall(Dramaturgy), ?AvengingAngel.
 If AvengingAngel is on target, this will also apply
 to JustChorale. This echo effect will cure by itself
 at the end of the duration, and should not be removed
 through other means. Each application could be bard
 specific if it is felt this scales too much in groups
 (i.e. 'echoed by <Cantor-name>', where each cantor
 has to cast their own for their attacks to be
 echoed). Addit: potentially a ?12s window rather than
 10s would be easier to utilise assuming the need for
 at least one blanknote in the middle, and the casting
 eq cost.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Remove the aeon and stun. Apply new effect to target,
 lasting 10 seconds. The following abilities
 (Starchord, DiscordantChord, CrusaderCanto - consider
 inclusion of Colourburst/Spray, Rainbowpattern,
 Warrior, Pratfall) when cast on the target are stored
 and applied simultaneously when the effect ends -
 this could potentially also function whereby the
 casted abilities hover on the caster (i.e. target has
 to be in room at the end for it to land). This should
 not be able to be renewed before effect expires.
 Alternatively, rather than the attacks themselves
 being deferred, have any health change incurred
 during this period be held in abeyance until
 resolution of the effect instead (much like Athletics
 Numb functions). Addit: potentially a ?12s window
 rather than 10s would be easier to utilise assuming
 the need for at least one blanknote in the middle,
 and the casting eq cost.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Remove the aeon and stun. Apply new effect to target
 for 10 seconds, where all changes to health are
 boosted by 100%. Note however that this would also
 affect the target's gaining of health as well as
 losses.
Player Comments:
---[Lerad on 3/9 @ 11:42 writes]:
Some opening thoughts, is that one, I very much agree with removing aeon and
stun, but that's more of a personal bias - but still, I very much agree with the
premise of the problem statement about it being a complete lockdown reliant
mechanic. I would also like to note that I'm not familiar enough with all of the
bard attacks (especially illusion/glamours) to know if the replacement effect of
solution 1 will be too overpowered or too little. If, in the case that there
exists a specific combination of attacks that will guarantee a kill when double-
stacked like that, then the skill effectively becomes an unconditional
instantkill by any cantor who figures it out. If there is no such combination,
there's the risk the 10s effect of princessfarwell simply become
inconsequential, and the skill becomes nerfed to negligible effect. Solution 2
and 3 will face the group-problem. There becomes a threshold number of
participants where using it is effectively an instakill, and where if you don't
meet that threshold, it simply does not do enough damage to be of any use at
all, and you have effectively deleted princessfarewell.
---[Lerad on 3/9 @ 11:42 writes]:
Based on the concept, solution 1 will probably be the most viable, but some
suggestions you may want to consider will be to single out and focus on a few
other abilities specifically to boost, instead of the blanket "everything in
music and illusions". For example, single out two or three song effects (some
passive, some active) that do afflictions, and have the princessfarewell effect
give them a certain boost when they are done under princessfarewell. In
addition, you can then give princessfarewell additional effects if the target
already has those afflictions pre-existing on them when princessfarewell is
performed on them again. This creates a situation where princessfarewell boosts
abilities, that then feed back into a second princessfarewell, turning it into a
snowball-cum-execute ability. But because you have it tightly controlled by
specifying which effects to use, you can then balance it by tweaking those
effects when imbalances become apparent.
---[Synkarin on 3/10 @ 19:21 writes]:
I think solution 3 is a little much in groups unless it's limited to just the
specific bards damage attacks. I'm ok with Sol 1 or Sol 2 really. I think Sol 1
solves the problem statement a bit better. Some clarification on Sol 2 would be
nice. Would the damage from aurics (from dchord for instance) be part of that
deal? Would it still stun?
---[Raeri on 3/11 @ 02:03 writes]:
Thank you for the comments. With regards to Solution 2, I was leaning towards
having just the health damage portion (i.e. the magic damage portion and not the
auric drain part) be affected by this. The stun wouldn't be affected or boosted
by this ability. Likewise if the Alternate Sol 2 was implementedd, then the stun
would occur on the dchord cast while the magic damage would occur at the end. I
tried to avoid boosting or affecting minorsixth auric drains with this, as I
felt a kill method revolving around that was more the domain of Shadowbeat and
Minstrelry and they should retain their bonuses in this regard.
---[Tredian on 3/12 @ 13:20 writes]:
Solution 2 seems to be inclined to chemantics playstyle which is probably
alright but still a damage route but Solution 1 looks more interesting as the
skills you mentioned there are mostly affs except CrusaderCanto which then would
turn it into mostly an affliction route, similar to Princess Farewell, which
hopefully gives you enough afflictions to pursue a damage kill. If that is
viable for you (I think the affs are chosen randomly from a list too?) I'll
support the change but I'm quite doubtful that would be enough. Might need
something that increases damage with affs might be needed or affs scaling with
deathsong time or something else. But I am fine with Solution 1.
---[Siam on 3/13 @ 03:24 writes]:
I am more inclined towards solution 2. Solution 1 is just as fine. Solution 3
seems the simplest and most straightforward
---[Shedrin on 3/13 @ 04:58 writes]:
Solution 3 is probably too powerful. I like Solution 1 the most.
---[Rivius on 3/13 @ 20:30 writes]:
Solution 1 sounds interesting, but it's difficult to tell right now whether or
not it will be a suitable replacement to aeon + stun and truly solve the problem
statement. If we do go that route, my preference is to keep it bard specific.
Solution 2 sounds like you want to time a big burst toward the end rather than
battle against active curing, and I think that this has potential though we
might have to evaluate if you can build sufficient damage for the final burst
for this to be worth it. If you fail to kill them, I imagine you're nearly back
to square one once healing kicks in. I am not a fan of solution 3, and would
rather we didn't go that route.
---[Rivius on 3/13 @ 20:30 writes]:
Also, with these solutions, is the blackout being retained?
---[Shuyin on 3/13 @ 23:50 writes]:
Solution 2
---[Raeri on 3/14 @ 01:50 writes]:
Intention is to retain blackout for these solutions.
---[Cyndarin on 3/14 @ 03:10 writes]:
I can get behind 2. 3 only works in 1v1s, in groups with sap and aeon, it would
be way over the top.
---[Lerad on 3/14 @ 03:38 writes]:
I support the new (current) solution 2, that has the caveat of it "hovering"
around the cantor (so that target has to be in the room at the end of the
duration for it to land). One possible concern is that the kill strategy of this
solution, if done properly, is basically a slightly cheaper version of dsong
without the weaknesses of a channeled instakill that is stopped by deafness -
traded off for the fact that this is not a 100% kill and requires much more
active effort (target needs to be set up with aurics for the
dchord+starchord+canto damage to reach instant-death levels). Whether this is
acceptable... well, it'll be something new, I guess?
---[Lerad on 3/14 @ 11:52 writes]:
Actually, on second thoughts, let's nix the hovering thing. Let's not make it a
run-or-die thing, and instead keep the ability on evaluation, and tweak it by
adding power costs or lowering damage or adding some other restriction later, if
it is too powerful without adding a run-or-die kind of interaction to it.
---[Wobou on 3/22 @ 10:05 writes]:
I definitely think solution 3 is too strong even though it's paired with a
fairly dramatic downside. Both solution 1 and 2 seem fine by me although I
imagine in either case some further tweaks will be needed.
---[Silvanus on 3/30 @ 06:05 writes]:
I am very late to the party on most of these reports, and by tomorrow this
report will be submitted, I will just note that my personal belief is that most
Bards active power song, like PrincessFarewell or CrowCaw, are too strong and
too easy to spam over and over till it works. I think in general, almost all of
these songs should be looked at (QueensLament recently had a report as well, I
can't speak too its viability)