110069-development-update-page-2

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I never said Carbine had more than 250 people.  I said they had 221 according to LinkedIn.
 
Just because Blizzard is massive doesn't equate Carbine to being "small".
 
ArenaNet has 290 employees at a time supporting 2 MMO's - and I would argue that GuildWars 2 never had as many game breaking issues as WildStar *still does*.
 
Carbine isn't some indie MMO dev.  They have "AAA" staffing, "AAA" resources, and are charging "AAA" prices.  $60 base game, $14.00 a month.
 
If you really want to compare Carbine to Blizzard - explain to me why they are charging the same price for 1/20th the development team?
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If you really want to compare Carbine to Blizzard - explain to me why they are charging the same price for 1/20th the development team?
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I never said Carbine had more than 250 people.  I said they had 221 according to LinkedIn.
 
Just because Blizzard is massive doesn't equate Carbine to being "small".
 
ArenaNet has 290 employees at a time supporting 2 MMO's - and I would argue that GuildWars 2 never had as many game breaking issues as WildStar *still does*.
 
Carbine isn't some indie MMO dev.  They have "AAA" staffing, "AAA" resources, and are charging "AAA" prices.  $60 base game, $14.00 a month.
 
If you really want to compare Carbine to Blizzard - explain to me why they are charging the same price for 1/20th the development team?
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Checkmate.
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Usually I'm all for food analogies, but this is a bad one.
You would still have to take a chance when "eating for the 8th time" because you won't know how the dish turned out until it's on your table.
In an MMO's case you can directly observe what has been fixed before you jump back in.
 
If the restaurant gave me a rundown on how they've changed the recipe since the last time or cleaned up the kitchen or whatever: Yeah sure, I'll be back.
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AT&T has more employees than Verizon. Why do they charge the same?
 
Grow up.
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I really hope Carbine's takeaway from this thread is that people don't trust them to get the game back on track, which was the original point of the thread, I believe.  To gain our trust back, you need to do an actually-detailed post outlining what changes will come, and when.  
 
Please, I love this game, and your response is really disheartening.  The bug fixes really need to be a priority, and really can't wait.  
 
Also:
 
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(pages and pages of nonsense clipped)
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Did we play the same Guild Wars 2? Haha.. Rose Colored Lenses to make arguments seem valid. :P
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because they offer comparable services unlike wildstar vs WoW?
 
sit down.
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Because 15$ a month isn't anywhere near what Blizz charges for all the discs for their expacks.  There's a reason they can put them all on sale for a total of 20$ every now and then.
 
Game boxes pay for their development.  15$ pays for maintenance and fixes.  Which is what you're getting, Blizzard spent six months playing this game with bugs at their launch (I was there).  Carbine's done pretty damn well, especially considering their size.
 
But NCSoft allows them to swing harder than they could on their own.  I hardly feel haughty enough to castigate Carbine for having a more polished product at launch with less staff.
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			While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.	
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This has been discussed, ad nauseum, by people and actually detracted by the people who posted it in support of Wildstar's issues.  According to that, Wildstar is doing better than FFXIV:ARR, which we know to not be the case, and still one of the most played games on Earth, which we know it isn't and are okay with.
 
If you want, I can link you to one of the places it was brought up.
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 then you need to hire more people.
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While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.
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With the money you were never going to get because the target audience was never big enough? Super cool story.
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 Which is what you're getting, Blizzard spent six months playing this game with bugs at their launch (I was there).  Carbine's done pretty damn well, especially considering their size. 
But NCSoft allows them to swing harder than they could on their own.  I hardly feel haughty enough to castigate Carbine for having a more polished product at launch with less staff.
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because they offer comparable services unlike wildstar vs WoW?
 
sit down.
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While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.
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Really, what's different between WildStar and WoW? I can only see things in WildStar's favor.
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That bugged.... everything in Orr... for months...
But sure, super smooth game, 10/10 Arenanet quality.  :rolleyes:
 
 
 
 
 
Well as I said, if you consider Wildstar to be completely "horrible" due to its issues, suit yourself. It makes no sense to me when people say they will stay if things are fixed (because why bother if it's horrible anyway?), but oh well.
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You know all most all sub based games offer, the same monthly subscription charge. Just saying
 
Also you know WoW had the same sub charge when it was released and a buggy PoSthat it does now 10 year slater now that it's been polished (and STILL has bugs) also how was that almost full year with absolutely no new content in WoW treating ya? Or how does them promising not to do that (A SECOND TIME NOW!) and out right lying make Blizzard a better company?
 
Just saying, WoW isn't all it's cracked up to be and a bag of chips, people just find it easier to go back there, because a lot of people have it as a security blanket with years of investment in it. If you were a new gamer, you probably wouldn't think WoW was all that terrific compared to newer games.
 
WoW's whole market scheme anymore is hoping they can get you to cling to that time you invested in your character and keep throwing them money.
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Maybe a dev could come into this thread and calm all of down?
 
Noooo that would make way too much sense, it would almost be something Riot would do.
The way Riot interacts with its fan base is probably the best out of any company i've ever witnessed, game devs could learn ALOT from them.
 
These devs started out like that but once the game started tanking they disappeared. Someone brought up that NCsoft may have cut some of their funding, which is entirely plausible.	
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			Does not look like there will be a patch this week so is this a trend for the future?	
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And it's somehow not Carbine's fault they launched with a flawed (according to you) business model?  What point are you exactly trying to make?
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Funny, as bugged as WoW supposedly was it was still miles ahead of the competition at the time.  You can't say the same about W*.
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It's only a flawed business model if you underestimate people simply incredible whine potential and entitlement to the same level of polish one of the biggest studios in the entire industry can deliver.
You don't go on a backpacker vacation and expect air conditioned flower scented bathrooms.
I knew what I signed up for when I bought an ambitious MMO made by a relatively small crew.
Obviously too many other people didn't.
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This is a good move. Most people don't give a flying *cupcake*about the 5 quests and 1 zone that you guys call "new content" not to mention half the quests don't work on release anyway.
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Maybe a dev could come into this thread 
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Actually yeah you really can, name one game that had as many features in at launch as WS did (refuse to use W* it's stupid.)? 
 
While it may not be the most accessible the end game according to many members of the top Guilds is the best raiding they've ever done, this is coming from people that were former world #1 WoW raiders.
 
So yeah it actually does.
 
Please keep trying though. :)
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Maybe you should read the posts.
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Backpacker vacations don't cost the same as a vacation with air conditioned flower scented bathrooms.
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Actually yeah you really can, name one game that had as many features in at launch as WS did (refuse to use W* it's stupid.)? 
 
While it may not be the most accessible the end game according to many members of the top Guilds is the best raiding they've ever done, this is coming from people that were former world #1 WoW raiders.
 
So yeah it actually does.
 
Please keep trying though. :)
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Uh what?
Are you mad or something?
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Everyone needs to knock off the ridiculous hyperbole. The game is very playable, and there are hundreds of thousands of players having fun and doing exactly that RIGHT NOW.
 
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That 1/20th comment was made in satire to illustrate how silly the "But blizzard has more developers" argument.
 
If you can't fix your base game that has been in development for 9 years in a reasonable time frame (more than 4 weeks is not a reasonable time frame), and only having 221 developers is the reason you can't - then you need to hire more people.
 
It doesn't matter what the excuses are - it doesn't matter if Carbine "planned" on having a niche MMO with less players.  The simple fact is they are competing with other products that are more polished and charging the same price.
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Point sailed right over your head.  WildStar isn't competing with WoW's launch or GW2's launch or any other currently successful MMO's launch.  They are competing with those games in their current state.
 
It's hilarious to see you "but X game was buggier/worse at launch" people repeat this argument ad nauseum.
 
When WoW launched - in spite of it's bugs - it was better than the competition which is why people flocked to it in mass.  As much as you'd love to compare W* to WoW at launch its unrealistic and people won't pay for it.
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Straw man arguments and horrible analogies are fun.
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Actually yeah you really can, name one game that had as many features in at launch as WS did (refuse to use W* it's stupid.)? 
 
While it may not be the most accessible the end game according to many members of the top Guilds is the best raiding they've ever done, this is coming from people that were former world #1 WoW raiders.
 
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While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.
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			Please tell me you all realize that comparing a game that's been out for a decade to a new release--is incredibly stupid. Right?	
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You can't expect any game that didnt release with those features in this day and time to succeed let alone stand a chance, these features, such as LFG are required features for an MMO to succeed now, I've posted about this during beta and I'm glad Carbine did it right, name me a successfull MMO in the paste decade that didnt launch with these features, In fact I can only thing FFXIV ARR to be only game that even has a healthy population with a subscirption model and it launched with healthy number of features.
 
Former #1, not current. There is a reason they don't raid in WoW anymore, because they can't keep up with competition. DnT quits every single MMO they play once they start losing their preciious #1, no respect for quitters. No, one person claiming it to be best raiding experience does not mean jack shit. Current WoW HMs will give wildstar raids a run for their money.
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How bout a post on what your plans are, or is transparency not a thing anymore.
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You can't expect any game that didnt release with those features in this day and time to succeed let alone stand a chance, these features, such as LFG are required features for an MMO to succeed now, I've posted about this during beta and I'm glad Carbine did it right, name me a successfull MMO in the paste decade that didnt launch with these features, In fact I can only thing FFXIV ARR to be only game that even has a healthy population with a subscirption model and it launched with healthy number of features.
 
Former #1, not current. There is a reason they don't raid in WoW anymore, because they can't keep up with competition. DnT quits every single MMO they play once they start losing their preciious #1, no respect for quitters. No, one person claiming it to be best raiding experience does not mean jack shit. Current WoW HMs will give wildstar raids a run for their money.
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For all WoW comparisons :
This was 10 years ago !
If I was an ISP and I offer you 56k for the price of Adsl/fiber for the same price, would you be ok with this ?
Do you really expect things to stay the same or to improve over time ?
 
@Prosev : you were quicker ;-)
			
				
	Edited August 22, 2014 by Ygg	
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Hate on WoW all you want but it still has 6.8 mill users and that count will go up once WoD is released.
 
This is still more subs than most MMOs put together so that sure is not a 'fail' in my books.	
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			Thanks Carbine for posting this thread - we (well most of us) really appreciate the communication.  Take the time you need to get stuff right, and don't rush just for the sake of quieting down a few impatient people.	
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Hate on WoW all you want but it still has 6.8 mill users and that count will go up once WoD is released.
 
This is still more subs than most MMOs put together so that sure is not a 'fail' in my books.
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			How about you guys start fixing the issues around dying servers and the fact that subscriptions and player population are dropping like flies? Servers are "low" all the time even on the most active EU PvP Server (Hazzak) Thayd is a bit of a Ghost Town...	
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Hate on WoW all you want but it still has 6.8 mill users and that count will go up once WoD is released.
 
This is still more subs than most MMOs put together so that sure is not a 'fail' in my books.
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McDonalds has served over 300 billion hamburgers. That doesn't really make their food good.
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Thanks Carbine for posting this thread - we (well most of us) really appreciate the communication.  Take the time you need to get stuff right, and don't rush just for the sake of quieting down a few impatient people.
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Hate on WoW all you want but it still has 6.8 mill users and that count will go up once WoD is released.
 
This is still more subs than most MMOs put together so that sure is not a 'fail' in my books.
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Enigma quit because they never were top dawgs, you act like they were good guild in WoW. A bunch of Vets who can't compete in WoW..thats right I was correct in my assumption. Boohoo they were server first to get first kill on Razuvious on a no-name server..by this logic I'm more of a veteran than them because I've been in a server first guild for majority of WoW not to mention how many of the current Enigma even played during Vanilla Naxx..all I know is they are still recruiting lol.
 
http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/16397-WoW_world_first_list	
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It all depends.  Only 6-7% of people who played WoW still play.
 
 
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Enigma quit because they never were top dawgs, you act like they were good guild in WoW. A bunch of Vets who can't compete in WoW..thats right I was correct in my assumption.
 
http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/16397-WoW_world_first_list
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True, but it also doesn't mean that McDonald's have or are "failing" . Quite the contrary.
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What is your point? and Source? I don't play age of empires anymore, this must mean something?
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Never said it was failing. All I am saying is high numbers ≠ quality.
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lol @ Mcdonalds analogy, if WoW is McDonalds then Wildstar is Auny Fee kitchen, unhealthy and unpopular.
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Are they more polished?  Really?  Because Wildstar ain't my first dance, and if I was going to call any game out as being the worst or most buggy, Wildstar wouldn't even make a list.
 
I literally take what you people say as read because I've run into 4 bugs that are somewhat annoying, and I've never personally hit a gamebreaking bug.  I just have to take, at people's word, that there are gamebreaking bugs everywhere and that the game is terrible.
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Infer what you'd like I'm just pointing out that a huge number of subscribers does not mean it's an amazing game.
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and your claims of wildstar being superior does not even have the sub numbers to back up your arguement, I know who is more delusional.
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Hate on WoW all you want but it still has 6.8 mill users and that count will go up once WoD is released.
 
This is still more subs than most MMOs put together so that sure is not a 'fail' in my books.
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I've been anything but a detractor and enjoyed Wildstar very much, but for the first time I can say I feel truly disheartened with Carbine.  This sort of development plan is part of the large reason I quit World of Warcraft, and now it's happening here.  The last thing you should be doing is rolling everything into one large patch - especially since large patches are more inclined to have more bugs than those fixed - when you have only a small fraction of the player base as other games where people bemoan slow content rollout.  I've been playing on the PTR and now I'm really looking forward to The Defile despite a large list of feedback I posted a couple days ago.  
 
This is just flat out unacceptable, and it feels poorly thought-out in terms of even marketing with Warlords of Draenor quickly approaching on the horizon and coming in November.  Carbine, you're in large part borrowing from a temporary player base. Many people playing now are playing because the latest World of Warcraft content came out nearly a year ago.  Your job at this point is to keep those players hooked in and say "Screw the MMO I love this one".  If you decide to go this route of rolling every single bugfix into content patches and make everyone unhappy in waiting, what do you think is going to happen to those borrowed players?  While many of them would indeed return to WoW regardless, what about those on the fence?  If they had to choose between an entire expansion pack and level cap versus waiting 2-3 months for content in that other game... then do you really think they would with the other game they've been less invested in?  
 
It's your choice, Carbine.  Follow the tradition of NCSOFT games in shutting down due to your player base bleeding out, or play triage.  But making everyone wait and breaking previous content promises is not the way to do that.	
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I've been anything but a detractor and enjoyed Wildstar very much, but for the first time I can say I feel truly disheartened with Carbine.  This sort of development plan is part of the large reason I quit World of Warcraft, and now it's happening here.  The last thing you should be doing is rolling everything into one large patch - especially since large patches are more inclined to have more bugs than those fixed - when you have only a small fraction of the player base as other games where people bemoan slow content rollout.  I've been playing on the PTR and now I'm really looking forward to The Defile despite a large list of feedback I posted a couple days ago.  
 
This is just flat out unacceptable, and poorly thought-out in terms of even marketing with Warlords of Draenor quickly approaching on the horizon and coming in November.  Carbine, you're in large part borrowing from a temporary player base. Many people playing now are playing because the latest World of Warcraft content came out nearly a year ago.  Your job at this point is to keep those players hooked in and say "Screw the MMO I love this one".  If you decide to go this foolish route of rolling every single bugfix into content patches and make everyone unhappy in waiting, what do you think is going to happen to those borrowed players?  While many of them would indeed return to their other MMORPG, if they had to choose between an entire expansion pack and level cap versus waiting 2-3 months for content in that other game... then why stay with the other game they've been less invested in?  
 
It's your choice, Carbine.  Follow the tradition of NCSOFT games in shutting down due to your player base bleeding out, or play triage.  But making everyone wait and breaking previous content promises is not the way to do that.
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So I've been pretty critical of Carbine since drop 2. The reality as I see it is pretty simple to deduce from what was said by The devs
 
1) Defile is done or near enough that a Sept 3 drop wouldn't be a problem.
 
2) The overwhelming feedback on the net (which is not at all a majority of the playerbase, not even close) is that a number of large systems as well as small systems are not functioning well/are bugged/etc
 
3) Carbine cannot make a choice between things like a) Patch in Warrior Threat fixes or B) Patch in Spellslinger fixes without angering the other group and a pile of others besides (PVP, raiders, casuals, economy types, housing goons, so on)
 
4) Subs are down (rather obviously) to an extent that the Dev team has no choice but to full stop the roll out schedule to get the ship in order. People are screaming for current system fixes, that's what they are going to do.
 
5) In order to avoid the nasty fallout of #3 above, they HAVE to delay the fixes as much as possible to ensure that the majority of these fixes come out together. To ensure this doesn't create a non-functional bug environment, it must be delayed. Rolling it out with Defile later on just makes sense.
 
So....I unsubbed two weeks ago.Here is what I'll do as a show of good faith because it is a good game. I'll resub one more month and I'll transfer from my dead ass server to Pergo. I'll give Carbine a month. If the game isn't where we all want to see it be by the end of September, I'm off to WoD.
 
The Devs have spoken. They obviously listened. Now....can they deliver? We'll see.	
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			I think most people just want fixes rather than content at the moment, I can name at least 1 major bug on each of the 3 healing classes I play.	
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Lack of content drives people away. Lack of playtesting and fixing of bugs also drives people away. It's no-win situation for Carbine, since it's in their best interest to keep people around. Though we could argue that keeping new content rolling despite of bugs would keep more people around, the truth is that making content monthly might not be that great for the guys actually making the content. Having such a short time to design, playtest and create all the assets is a lot of stress on them. 
Not to mention that there are only so many buggy updates players will keep up before saying "screw it" and moving to something else.
 
With that said, I am optimistic about this change. Of course, I wish we had more things to do while we wait, and maybe they should have released this drop as expected before changing the update schedule, but if it allows them to make better and more complete content, then I believe we should be optimistic.
At least at first, anyway.	
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Show me where I said it was superior.
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Thanks Carbine for posting this thread - we (well most of us) really appreciate the communication.  Take the time you need to get stuff right, and don't rush just for the sake of quieting down a few impatient people.
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I've been anything but a detractor and enjoyed Wildstar very much, but for the first time I can say I feel truly disheartened with Carbine.  This sort of development plan is part of the large reason I quit World of Warcraft, and now it's happening here.  The last thing you should be doing is rolling everything into one large patch - especially since large patches are more inclined to have more bugs than those fixed - when you have only a small fraction of the player base as other games where people bemoan slow content rollout.  I've been playing on the PTR and now I'm really looking forward to The Defile despite a large list of feedback I posted a couple days ago.  
 
This is just flat out unacceptable, and poorly thought-out in terms of even marketing with Warlords of Draenor quickly approaching on the horizon and coming in November.  Carbine, you're in large part borrowing from a temporary player base. Many people playing now are playing because the latest World of Warcraft content came out nearly a year ago.  Your job at this point is to keep those players hooked in and say "Screw the MMO I love this one".  If you decide to go this foolish route of rolling every single bugfix into content patches and make everyone unhappy in waiting, what do you think is going to happen to those borrowed players?  While many of them would indeed return to their other MMORPG, if they had to choose between an entire expansion pack and level cap versus waiting 2-3 months for content in that other game... then why stay with the other game they've been less invested in?  
 
It's your choice, Carbine.  Follow the tradition of NCSOFT games in shutting down due to your player base bleeding out, or play triage.  But making everyone wait and breaking previous content promises is not the way to do that.
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I agree with the borrowed playerbase point wholeheartly. I am one of them..eagerly waiting for WoD.
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eagerly waiting for WoD.
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Me too, man, me too. 
No, not because I want to play it. But because you want to play it.
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What is your point? and Source? I don't play age of empires anymore, this must mean something?
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Right because a new game getting it's sea legs is far worse than a developer that broke it's promise twice now not to go 6+ months without new content.
 
Please see my security blanket statement. Thanks for enforcing it, :)
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While a little melodramatic for my tastes I do agree with some of your points. Sacrificing content for bugs that should be fixed as quickly as possible is pretty lame.
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Uh, sure.  Blizz has 6-7 million players.  They proudly say 100 million have played the game.  Therefore, 6-7% of people who have ever played the game are currently playing.
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Sorry buddy..a year wait for twice the amount of content that Wildstar released with after 4-5 years of development time is far superior than waiting 2-3 months for another content patch with a new zone and 5 quests when half of the 5 quests don't work. Don't dare compare wildstar content with WoW expansion content....as a raider I only concern myself with the progression of my character and so..lets see 4 dungeons 2 raid (DS is not even achievable with current server pops so only 1 raid) vs 7 dungeons 2 raids + actual raid bosses unlike the ones in WS not to mention the multitudes of modes for raids (Mythic with guild/Flex with RL friends).  Good luck competing.
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Sorry buddy..a year wait for twice the amount of content that Wildstar released with after 4-5 years of development time is far superior than waiting 2-3 months for another content patch with a new zone and 5 quests when half of the 5 quests don't work. Don't dare compare wildstar content with WoW expansion content....as a raider I only concern myself with the progression of my character and so..lets see 4 dungeons 2 raid (DS is not even achievable with current server pops so only 1 raid) vs 7 dungeons 2 raids + actual raid bosses unlike the ones in WS not to mention the multitudes of modes for raids (Mythic with guild/Flex with RL friends).  Good luck competing.
 
 
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Except Wildstar hasn't been out in 4-5 years (You can't possibly beta, that's ridiculous.) and last time I checked Wildstar does offer more conetnt than WoD does, without the lore raping story-line of a great franchise.
 
 
As I said, thank you for enforcing my security blanket statement. I appreciate that. I can use you as a prime example from here out. :)
 
Adventures like them or not are technically dungeons (More so than scenario's can ever hope to be.) plus beta testing WoD the 4 dungeons in WS blow the ones I did in beta out of the water. 
 
Like I said thanks for enforcing my Security Blanket Statement. <3 I totes bookmarked a few of your posts I'll be using in the future to further enforce my point!
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Hey Folks - 
 
Just giving you all another friendly reminder to keep your posts constructive, courteous, and on-topic. Any post that does not fall within these guidelines will be removed. Also, please help us out by reporting any post that disrupts the flow of this thread.
 
Thanks so much,
Team WildStar	
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and the dungeons I did in WoD beta were funner than this get gold and get shitty loot dungeons in WS...how are YOU NOT enforcing blanket statements? pot meet kettle.
 
WS was in development for 4-5 years and all they could muster was 4 dungeons.
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So much hypocrisy here. I'm about to throw up. :mellow:
Talking how shitty Wildstar is, but fleeing from the so superior game to Wildstar and repeating this cycle with every new MMO coming out.
Additionally complaining about Wildstar's delay of content for the sake of more polished content, even though your so praised Blizzard is delaying WoW's  content for a year so they can charge you extra 40 bucks for it? :rolleyes:  I can't take this hypocrisy, it really is too much for me.
 
 
On topic:
 
I guess I'm lucky that most of the mentioned bugs don't affect me, except Trigger Fingers. Considering trigger fingers, yeah it sucks, but it's seriously not that game breaking. You roughly get a feel when gate really is ready.
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I'm not but you are beautifully. Thanks for doing it too. :)
 
At this point I don't even think you know what you're even talking about anymore, you're reaching and foaming for any ground you can muster You avoided my main statement about WoW for majority of posts, then when you try to finally combat it you do a game that was building their own game engine (clearly you have no idea how much work goes into that.) vs a game using a 10 year engine. Further showing how clueless you are as to what goes into developing a new MMO, and further enforcing my blanket statement yo.
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Same few people saying the exact same things over and over...
 
Just because you don't like WoW does not mean it sucks.
 
No one would continue to pay a monthly if it was as bad as some you claim.
 
All I know is every single friend/guildy I got to try this game have all quit, every single one of them.
 
It is blatantly evident that people are quitting in droves so w/e; continue on making up excuses!	
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Sorry I don't care about what goes into building an engine, WoW using their own engine too, deal with it. I care about the directing the game is going, the bugs they have to iron out for a better player experience. I pay to play, I don't pay to care about game engines and how superior it is to other games, the shareholders will care about that when their Q3 reports are published in due time. It's like saying, It takes too long for Lasagna to make, so it is okay for it to be missing cheese, no it is not. I paid for Lasagna.
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I never complained about delay of content(I give a rats ass about new zones and solo content, I care about progressing my char by doing better dps/healing/tanking), i was pointing out how long it takes to release content when they do vs WoW. I complain about game breaking bugs that are still rampant in this game but are ignored for the sake of content updates which ultimately introduces more bugs. THis is why I said it was a good decision to push bug fixes independant of content, people keep dragging me into this WS is superior than WoW debates, so I have to explain the reality. You are not a game released in 2004, you CAN'T get away with things WOW got away with, WoW had no competition at the time, WS does, this is the same mistake BioWare made and the same mistake Carbine is making. Server population issue is a huge problem, especially if you are 6/6 and wanting to raid DS, I'm lucky to see the same raider two weeks in a row in my guild, I have to constantly run dungeons to attune new people(and no 6/6 GA isnt hard for new players, when u have 12-15 ppl who've already done it). Ultimately you CANT survive financially if you don't cater to your casuals.
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Here let me give you a little friendly advice then, because from all of your comments you're new at this or just well... we'll just assume new at this. Stop playing new MMOs at release, you will never be happy, you will never find what you are looking for.... EVER. Stick to games on Expansion X or that has been out for 6 months+
 
I also give this advice to anyone that can't grasp how game launches are for new companies. You all clearly don't know what goes into these games, maintaining them and finding your pacing in content releases, bug fixes etc. If Carbine is guilty of anything it's over confidence, but you know what they're learning and I like the foundation to what they have. I play games because they have interesting game play, things that engage me... if i want to play something that I can play one handed while eating a sandwich and watching netflix barely paying attention to the game, then I'll go back to WoW. :P
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Hey guys, Don't play MMOs when they are released...good advice..NOT.
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I never complained about delay of content(I give a rats ass about new zones and solo content, I care about progressing my char by doing better dps/healing/tanking), i was pointing out how long it takes to release content when they do vs WoW. I complain about game breaking bugs that are still rampant in this game but are ignored for the sake of content updates which ultimately introduces more bugs. THis is why I said it was a good decision to push bug fixes independant of content, people keep dragging me into this WS is superior than WoW debates, so I have to explain the reality. You are not a game released in 2004, you CAN'T get away with things WOW got away with, WoW had no competition at the time, WS does, this is the same mistake BioWare made and the same mistake Carbine is making. Server population issue is a huge problem, especially if you are 6/6 and wanting to raid DS, I'm lucky to see the same raider two weeks in a row in my guild, I have to constantly run dungeons to attune new people(and no 6/6 GA isnt hard for new players, when u have 12-15 ppl who've already done it). Ultimately you CANT survive financially if you don't cater to your casuals.
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In the interest of reducing the fireball throwing, you're kind of soaking yourself in gasoline.  A few points you're attracting criticism with:
 
You want out of a debate, leave it behind.  You're continuing the WoW v WS debate and you're going to attract flames on that, and solely that, as long as you keep it up.
 
Other than that, you might not want to start a fight between harcores v casuals, since that's going to attract hate on that, as well.
 
You've now essentially called in a few more games' followers to hate on that.
 
Which, let's face it, isn't your argument and isn't helping your argument.  If you want to have Wildstar stand on its own, the best way to do that is to talk about it on its own.  Hence, it's not going to attract as much criticism to say, for example, "I think this is a good idea, and I hope a lot of their ideas are going to make it logistically more simple to operate a guild.  Attunement should be [insert your argument here] because [insert your rationale here] and if they delay the next drop by a month to get that in, I'd consider it a good move."
 
I'm taking as read that you really don't want to argue about WoW or other games, though, just getting back on track.  If not, continue as normal.
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Same few people saying the exact same things over and over...
 
Just because you don't like WoW does not mean it sucks.
 
No one would continue to pay a monthly if it was as bad as some you claim.
 
All I know is every single friend/guildy I got to try this game have all quit, every single one of them.
 
It is blatantly evident that people are quitting in droves so w/e; continue on making up excuses!
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The only reason why Bizzard can serve you Lasagne now, is because most of us sticked with WoW back then otherwise you'd get a "Do it Yourself" Lasagna.
A more accurate analogy would be: I wanna have children, but please let them skip the baby, toddler, teenager and young adult phase.
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I never said I wanted out of a debate, I don't care about content but I will continue to argue that WoW's content is far superior to WS content any day of the week. Anyone who is arguing against it is blatantly ignorant. I don't care about attracting hate from hardcore either, I'm a hardcore raider but even I know casuals are the driving force behind MMOs now, if you want to be finanically successful you have to cater to casuals, sure we can make supreme mode for hardcores but WS way of delivering content is right out wrong, they are right fencing out the casuals from even entering raiding (and No I don't mean the people who like to bang their head against the wall within the limited time they have). Neither hardcore nor casuals are getting any benefits from keeping casuals out from content, it just simply hurting the game.
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or you know maybe they shouldnt advertise to serve Lasagna if they can't serve it with cheese? that is more apt. You and I stuck with them because we didnt have a Lasagna place back then..now we have many.
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While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.
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Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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While we’re going to be pushing out our bigger update, we’re committed to updating WildStar with smaller bug fixes and feature updates in our hotfixes and weekly updates, as the schedule permits (typically weekly, but it can be a bit longer from time to time). These smaller updates are not affected by the shift in development focus and you will continue to see improvements to the game.
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People invested their lives in to Wildstar launch.  It's clearly obvious by these irate posts.  I've been following the game since 2012 and in beta since April 2013.  I doubt many people have wanted this game to succeed more than me.On the other hand like I said earlier I'm not an angsty teenager so when the game stumbles at launch I just take a step back and let them regain their footing.  It's not the end of the world.  It's not the end of Wildstar.
 
I understand your frustration.  The only reason you're still here and whining on the forums is because you see the potential of the game and know it's good with some fixes.  Just take a giant breather and go play something else until the patches start rolling out.  You'll thank me for the advice later.	
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I never said I wanted out of a debate, I don't care about content but I will continue to argue that WoW's content is far superior to WS content any day of the week. Anyone who is arguing against it is blatantly ignorant. I don't care about attracting hate from hardcore either, I'm a hardcore raider but even I know casuals are the driving force behind MMOs now, if you want to be finanically successful you have to cater to casuals, sure we can make supreme mode for hardcores but WS way of delivering content is right out wrong, they are right fencing out the casuals from even entering raiding (and No I don't mean the people who like to bang their head against the wall within the limited time they have). Neither hardcore nor casuals are getting any benefits from keeping casuals out from content, it just simply hurting the game.
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Wow content updates are actually very small.  They add the bulk of their content in xpacs every two years then update the new xpac for one year and then let it rot for the last year until the next xpac.  So out of a 2 year xpac you only get updates the first year. Reallll noiceeee.
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My comments on this topic:
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/WildStar/comments/2e3t47/drop_3_and_future_patches_may_not_be_released_on/cjvvbqt
 
My experience with software development has been that it is far better in all cases to release quickly and iterate than it is to ball up a massive number of changes and release it all at once.
 
The "large patch" makes sense for new content. It needs to all come at the same time because it's all logically part of the same change. Everything else does not belong in such a patch.
 
Sure, you want to release things to us bug-free. But nobody ever asked for bug-free. Bug-free software is a myth. It doesn't exist. Anywhere. It has *NEVER* been made. So I don't expect nor want bug-free software from you. What I want is the confidence that what you ship is going to be only moderately bug-free (nothing super gamebreaking), and that fixes happen frequently enough that bugs or bad design aren't a significant source of negative player reactions.
 
If it takes you 3 months to implement a fix to a bug, or to fix something that's really bad with the game, it's going to take you 3 more months to fix the bugs we inevitably find when the changes make it to live. Instead, if the changes are made weekly, or more often than that even, a bug isn't a big deal because you know a fix will happen soon.
 
TLDR: Big cohesive content changes = big patch (content "drop"). EVERYTHING ELSE = weekly or bi-weekly patches.	
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Raine read the first thing I quoted. :)
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Same few people saying the exact same things over and over...
 
Just because you don't like WoW does not mean it sucks.
 
No one would continue to pay a monthly if it was as bad as some you claim.
 
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This is really disappointing news so soon after launch. Drop 1 was great, while Drop 2 was not my cup of tea (I'm not big on PvP), so many like me were looking forward to Drop 3.
 
I get the desire to focus on improving the quality of content, and I definitely want content to be as polished as possible. But you guys made such a big deal about this game having monthly updates, and that was one of the big selling points for many people. You said you had 12+ months already lined up, in varying degrees of development and polish. Now Drop 3 apparently isn't of a high enough quality to launch on time. It just seems way too early in this game's lifespan for things like this to be happening.
 
I bought a year's subscription partly based on this promise of monthly updates, because, like so many other MMO players, new content keeps me coming back for more. Three months in (or two months into my subscription) this policy is already changing, and we don't even have an estimate for when Drop 3 launches, never mind what happens to subsequent updates.
 
Suffice it to say, I have cancelled my subscription going forward.	
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First start patching nightly or every other night so we can feel like stuff is actually being worked on.
 
Second if your going to delay the rune change patch, start dropping the materials outta dungeons to change the rune slots drop. even if the system isn't in the game yet so i can actually justify running the content still.	
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People invested their lives in to Wildstar launch.  It's clearly obvious by these irate posts.  I've been following the game since 2012 and in beta since April 2013.  I doubt many people have wanted this game to succeed more than me.
 
On the other hand like I said earlier I'm not an angsty teenager so when the game stumbles at launch I just take a step back and let them regain their footing.  It's not the end of the world.  It's not the end of Wildstar.
 
I understand your frustration.  The only reason you're still here and whining on the forums is because you see the potential of the game and know it's good with some fixes.  Just take a giant breather and go play something else until the patches start rolling out.  You'll thank me for the advice later.
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Alright m8, i'll wait, but with this extra time i'm going to be judging the solo content of this VERY ruthlessly
 
You want my continued subs during the wait between updates, then don't disappoint me :)	
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Alright m8, i'll wait, but with this extra time i'm going to be judging the solo content of this VERY ruthlessly
 
You want my continued subs during the wait between updates, then don't disappoint me :)
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I know I had a lot of posts and probably came of angry in this thread. I also probably came off obsessed with the TF bug. Maybe I am, but it really isn't about this specific bug. It's about trusting in your timeline and trusting that you are getting us the fixes as soon as reasonably possible. When you hotfix the Wild Barrage bug but don't hotfix the TF bug, it's hard not to assume you don't realize how much it messes up the game, especially when you don't talk to us about it.
 
I'm not leaving. I'm not even going to take a break. I'm still behind you, Carbine, and I think this game is awesome. There are no threats from me regarding anything. I know it will all get sorted eventually. What I'm trying to communicate is that this bug has really made the last month of game play a lot less fun, and I'm not sure you understand that because you haven't communicated with us that you see how game breaking it is. There are probably other, similar bugs in other areas where players are experiencing the same level of pain.
 
We all need more from you. Please try to give us some info on the status of these kinds of bugs and acknowledge that you understand how broken they are so we can really trust that we will get the fixes as soon as reasonably possible. Because right now it appears there is already a fix for the TF bug and we might wait another month or more simply because you guys don't know how badly it's affecting us.	
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			Great post, and I'm rooting for you guys to make it happen!  Can't wait to see the new content and take a gander at all of what you've been working so hard on!	
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I've been wondering how long it has to take until we  are allowed to be upset. From  the post saying when content will be  coming next we will be at the 5 month mark from  release, so just about half a year.
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free.
 
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I know I had a lot of posts and probably came of angry in this thread. I also probably came off obsessed with the TF bug. Maybe I am, but it really isn't about this specific bug. It's about trusting in your timeline and trusting that you are getting us the fixes as soon as reasonably possible. When you hotfix the Wild Barrage bug but don't hotfix the TF bug, it's hard not to assume you don't realize how much it messes up the game, especially when you don't talk to us about it.
 
I'm not leaving. I'm not even going to take a break. I'm still behind you, Carbine, and I think this game is awesome. There are no threats from me regarding anything. I know it will all get sorted eventually. What I'm trying to communicate is that this bug has really made the last month of game play a lot less fun, and I'm not sure you understand that because you haven't communicated with us that you see how game breaking it is. There are probably other, similar bugs in other areas where players are experiencing the same level of pain.
 
We all need more from you. Please try to give us some info on the status of these kinds of bugs and acknowledge that you understand how broken they are so we can really trust that we will get the fixes as soon as reasonably possible. Because right now it appears there is already a fix for the TF bug and we might wait another month or more simply because you guys don't know how badly it's affecting us.
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Well that's not a great thing to hear.
But tbh my biggest problem with WildStar atm is the steadily decreasing amount of friends/guildmembers to play with.
I somehow doubt that even two flawless patches for september AND october would fix that.
As long as there's affordable CREDD to buy I'll probably continue to login at least once every day. (which I've done since headstart)
There are still boom boxes to claim after all... ^^"
 
Hope dies last! (although it will eventually)	
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I'm probably in the same camp as most of the vocal people in this thread and say my first sentiment is that the whole thing feels like that the major problems of the last drop won't be corrected until drop 3.
Which would be disappointing to say the least.
Oh well let's see what the coming weeks bring, not ready yet to dust off my pitchfork :)	
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EDIT; since my petition was closed in less than 5 minutes!?!?! Rly I can't post in another area to have our voices be heard.....
 
Okay let me begin by saying I love this game, and want it to succeed.  In saying this, i feel a little betrayed by Carbine.  You guys say you are listening, but you dont give us the feedback we need in a timely manner in order for any of us to keep playing.  Blood sworn server is dead, PVP is broken, and PVE is made for the "1%".  NEWS FLASH: You cannot survive on the 1% especially since .5% of that 1% will go back to WoW, no matter how good this game is.
 
You guys say you are delaying needed fixes (PVP mainly for me) that are critical to this game recovering.  Release the fixes first, and new content later.  99.9% of your population wants pvp/e fixed before anything.  Also this game will remain hardcore if you do not nerf the difficulty, but make things accessible to players.  Many of us from the old days of MMOs have grown up and have half a life now.  We cannot possibly manage to live in wildstar with jobs and families, but we can manage with the most difficult raids in mmos at this time.
 
I'm gonna stop there, but i do ask the population on this forum to please back me and force carbine to hear us out.  I think all of us (carbine included) want this game to survive, and they need to trully hear us out and get the game fixed, before polishing it up more with content!
 
Again Carbine I love you guys and this game, but please hear us out, and seperate yourselves from all the other MMO companies that have burned all your players in the past.  It's time to make a difference, and truly show us you care.  I hope you can respect my opinion, and views on what needs to be changed.
 
Thank you,
Ookie-Bloodsworn	
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I don't mind the defile being pushed back, but I also hope the PvP/rune changes come out soon. Hoping to see them on the 26/08 patch.
 
If those fixes are pushed back as well, that's pretty sad.	
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Can you please provide a source?  Because the post I am reading, which explicitly says they are delaying content to add more bug fixes and system changes, does not appear to be the one you are reading.
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			Glad to hear PvP is getting some love. At the moment most PvPers feel like they are getting hazed... I Love the game and understand that it takes time to get things where they should be. Make it so!  :D	
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So far I like the idea of them delaying a patch to focus on not missing key things such as bugs and details etc. But here are a few things I wish they could enlighten us on.
 
Will old vendor gear especially Superb quality gear get the new Runeslot changes ( What I mean basically is will any Rep Vendor items bought AFTER the drop remain having 2-4 Runeslots ) ? Currently the new Defile rep vendor has +3 Runeslots guaranteed but on PTR none of the EP Vendor items or other 2 Rep Vendors from the Strain Drop have any changes and still states 2-4. This is sad because this also means that the GA section of the EP Vendor is 2-4 also. Would be sad if our "backup" plan for the limited gear slots on the vendor ends up rolling 2 Runeslots on a GA quality piece of gear. 
Lets talk about PTR. No one is testing on PTR like you would think they should...maybe this is one of the reasons why it got pushed back. But lets look at a few things though. For one Boomboxes are guaranteed on certain announced days for PTR..........this.....is....bad mainly because no one will log on until said day. I mean I myself got on PTR for a Press Event for Daggerstone pass and didnt receive not ONE SINGLE Boombox which is sad really that a press event which they even had trouble gathering up 15 players didnt seem like an event for a Boombox. I havent logged onto PTR since then, but now why not just guarantee boomboxes for logging on to PTR everyday for a certain amount of time...at least it will get activity or heck give out boomboxes to people who submit a legit bug report that turns out to be an actual bug. ( I hate the whole idea of giving rewards for PTR but its a monster they created ) 
Dont get tunnel vision...you guys stated a few changes and they just seem to have been vanishing or maybe you guys just stopped updating the patch notes for PTR. Hint...class balance. The Rune slot changes are fine and all but again you guys stated class balance as well but now it seems Rune slots have taken the spotlight...which is fine I love the changes but dont forget on the other. Given the fact that you are pushing back the patch you should now have more than enough time to have a bug free patch with content, class balance AND equipment changes :) dont let us down. /sips Coffee with an evil stare.	
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As much as I understand wanting to provide a new-fangled godsend drop 3, I am in the boat that feels that this is not the way to do things. This is too early to change release model, but also too early to push back content.
 
I for one, would love the bug-fixes, and the game changes; but I feel what this game REALLY needs is content. I am aware of game breaking bugs and many other iffy things going on in the game, but I feel that something that can be grasped and consumed would liven up the community a bit, even if its sorta buggy.
 
What I am trying to say is, I feel, content/fixes that are done, or mostly done should be cleaned up and shoved out as it is ready, but also rapidly, unless it will cause disruptive problems with things further down the pipeline; this shows you are actively providing to the community, that you are working quickly to provide us with support, sustenance (in the form of content), and attention to the game. "Turtling up" to fix everything all at once may make everything all clean and shiny all at once, but by then you not only have lost subs in the intervening period, but the people that remain now feel that the same thing is going to happen AGAIN, waiting months for changes and fixes.
 
I am gonna say it straight, the game as it is now does not have enough content or distraction to hold me as a player, I am hanging on for raids and my guildies, but those are tenuous threads. Game changes are very important, yes, but not everyone finds them as essential or as important as content to consume/gnaw on.
 
TL;DR All these fixes being pushed back into a big BIG patch is not going to help the situation NOW, releasing in smaller pieces as they are ready sounds more prudent...	
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Pushing the drop release is a risky gamble. Empirically speaking, we are all observing a decline in the population. The capital cities feel very empty (which could also mean that everyone is always on awesome adventures and have no time to loiter around the auction house like the lazy bum that I am) and it's increasingly difficult to get a large group together.
 
More importantly (and echoing a lot of posts in this thread), there is a list of incredibly broken or incomplete features that seem to have created an exodus of players due to their increased frustration. Why frustrated? Well...
 
1) Developers are very likely to be aware of most, if not all, of the issues that people voice in the forums. However, the only dev participation in the forums is when the answer is easy, because, let's face it, they don't want to touch anything controversial with a ten-foot pole. Result: people feel that Carbine is not listening and/or doesn't care (which I know is not true, but perception is reality).
 
2) Considering the game was released with incomplete features (Expert Research Technologist is an example), players would rightfully expect that the first drops would be aimed at addressing these issues. They weren't. Result: Carbine doesn't prioritize very well.
 
3) After only 2 drops, the monthly release model was changed to a "when it's ready" model. It is not what Carbine wanted, obviously. They were forced into that decision based on a multitude of factors that we, as consumers, can't even start to fathom. That said, it adds to the fire from point #2. People who are on the verge of quitting, but still clinging onto the hope that PvP, TF, tradeskills, events, etc will be fixed soon, are massively disappointed and this might speed up their defection. Result: Carbine doesn't honor their promise, only two months after the game is released. People can't trust them.
 
If Carbine were to patch more consistently, rather than wait for the big drop, it probably mean that they would have to work twice as hard (working on a "now" patch, that might be deprecated when the big drop comes). However, the outcome entails that the community would feel catered to, listened to, that the game would still feel like an entity that organically growing at a steady pace, rather than a dormant monster that comes out of hibernation every few months. Result: Carbine must choose between pacing themselves and alienating customers or working their asses off and retain more people.
 
TL;DR (copy from the post above; thanks Muffinsforever!) All these fixes being pushed back into a big BIG patch is not going to help the situation NOW, releasing in pieces as they are ready sounds more prudent...	
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I don't want to be critical of Carbine anymore because I really do hope they get this turned around. They just need to understand that launching with core systems and classes as imbalanced as they did puts the onus on themselves to get that fixed before anything else. The core component of this game that was off at launch was the reward versus time invested for actually playing it, and none of this other stuff matters until it actually feels rewarding to put in the time to actually play the game. Looking at crafting and especially the way the runes and dungeon loot were installed at launch it really dampened people's motivations to play. You're fixing that now, but the people who are still around are the people who pushed through that content already, just because it was fun, and now they're bored of it. You need to give them new motivations to keep doing it, which is why so many people have been asking for an actual rewarding daily dungeon/pvp/adventure quest(elder gems above the cap, rune slot rerolls, something). You also need to stop holding the amp and ability points as some kind of bullet in reserve for a future date, because those are the primary ways for people to advance their characters and when the game stagnates and those are time gated that frustration makes people stop logging in. I understand why you don't want them to be dropping like candy from a pinata, but the current implementation and your silence on it is pretty deafening. 
 
I understand long term the people playing now are not the ones who determine the ultimate success or failure of the game. You need to be able to attract new people. But the feeling from the vast majority of the current playerbase is so incredibly negative that it's going to be hard to get any positive word of mouth unless those current players feel better about the state of the game themselves. It feels like you simply don't understand, and haven't understood, how frustrating it is to play a game that at its core you very much enjoy but that seems to do nothing but frustrate you with game design decisions that make no logical sense at every turn. Why were gold rewards handled the same in dungeons and adventures at launch when one was simplistic and repeatable and the other was finicky and gated to a very small percentage of the population? Why did crafting ever make it to live, even without the better hybrid cores, in a state where it could render much of the dropped gear worthless? Why did warrior tanking launch as an utterly incomplete class, and why to this day has no one from the class team stepped up to address that and give a clear statement on where the class is supposed to go moving forward? Why did the rune system use the same stat balance for primary stat and for assault power when one is simply an exponentially more powerful version of the other, rendering the rest of the runes irrelevant? Why are the class bonuses on the rune system woefully imbalanced? Why are there no daily quests to get people to re-run the existing elder content? Why do the world bosses feel like a worthless slog to help someone get attuned rather than something that is actually somewhat fun with the chance at a worthwhile reward? Why did the game launch with low AP designed classes having access to the same flat AP runes as high AP designed classes and no one looked at that and thought "hrm, that's not going to work"? Why did arena matches show how many people had entered from both sides? Why was the PVP weapon best in slot pre-ohmna, and why didn't you make it clear immediately win trading was going to be smashed and was against TOS instead of leaving it vague and incentivizing people to do so in order to keep up with everyone else?  Why why why why why? 
 
So yeah, these are not basic post launch MMO problems. They effect the core principal of the genre, which is you invest time and effort and you get rewarded with loot and fun experiences. Until you fix those things none of this other crap matters. The game needs to be fun and rewarding to play, and none of the classes need to feel worthless. Once all that's done you can start adding more content. But until that's the case you have to understand it's a pretty frustrating experience to actually play your game, and that's why the reaction to another month without these basic fixes, fixes that are core to your game's inherent design and how it functions as a vessel for player enjoyment, has been so overwhelming. You may view them as minor changes, but to your players they are the primary things holding the game back, causing frustration, and ultimately leading to attrition. 
 
It's time to stop talking at your players and start talking to them. Look at the way J-Tal handled the rune rework with a systematic explanation of why things were changing, how they were changing, and how the players would be impacted. It was perfect. Having a twitch show is great. People like Tony and Frost. They enjoy the dev feedback. But every time you cherry pick simple questions that really don't impact anyone right now and talk about winter themed adventures two years down the road instead of addressing the actual glaring issues facing your game it makes people question where things are heading. I should not have to start a PR campaign to get my class dev to fix the class he is in charge of. I should not feel more motivated to farm the same mobs in a circle over and over again to progress my character because you guys are holding amp/ability point drops in reserve and the dungeons are not rewarding compared to BoE epics and crafted gear. Look at how your players are playing, look at what is frustrating them, and make those things a priority. If the primary amp for a class, trigger fingers, that has been the most expensive one since the game's launch is broken and causing a frustrating play experience, fix the damn thing. 
 
I just don't get it. I really don't. You have a great product but it almost feels like you are intentionally antagonizing people. Make the game fun, make the game rewarding, and people will play it. If you don't, we won't. It's that simple. Look at the number of people logging in right now and tell me which way you think the wind is blowing.	
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It all depends.  Only 6-7% of people who played WoW still play.
 
I don't think anyone said WoW wasn't as successful, but it gets a giant pass on a lot of bad issues that they get pushed onto Wildstar as if they don't exist elsewhere.  If a game can be that successful with all these issues, Wildstar can as well.  Everyone seems to take off their rose tinted glasses only to see Wildstar, which is kind of what happens everywhere else anyway for their own game.
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Really, I attribute WoW's success to coming out with the "right" game at the "right" time. Lighting in a bottle. Why else would no other MMO even come close? At all? Ever? That's more a tribute to why it was successful with it's many, MANY issues.
 
The security blanket analogy someone posted is pretty spot on, though I tend to compare it to a favorite sweatshirt. It's warm, comfortable, and familiar. You can take it off and on without feeling like you missed anything. Truly, I think this is where Blizzard wants the game.
 
If WoW, even the mythical Vanilla, was released now it'd be no different than any other MMO release.
 
Something that bothers me though is why mistakes that happened 10+ years ago, with WoW and any other MMO, still get repeated but brushed off with the excuse of "It's a new game". This didn't just happen with Wildstar, but lots of new MMOs.
 
Sure, the game is new but the MMO genre isn't. Studios, like Carbine, constantly tout their experience and yet make the same errors.
 
Regardless of these possibly off topic points, I'm happy to hear Carbine is slowing things down to add more polish. Though, the pessimist in me thinks results will probably be pretty similar. Especially after dooming it with the claim of "bug-free".
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{| class="blockquote"
Unfortunately as I noted above this game can't really last much longer without some of these changes, at least the audience it actually affects. 
 
It sounds like an issue of being lazy rather than its difficulty.  I thought the same thing, but they should know by now these QoL changes need to be priority #1 before new updates. Right now the game has so much content in it, they don't need to worry about new content yet. Come november yeah sure, add new content, but that should be their least priority right now.
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So... does fixing the big stinking crater when Technologist elder play should be count as a bug fix or the delayed feature that breaks a certain camel's back?
 
I'm glad you guys feel your subs are doing so well you can be leisurely about giving people stuff to do. Certainly not the impression I would have had from my servers growing que times.	
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			Guess I'm gonna download that PTR then and have some fun with testing stuff. :)	
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Hey Carbine dudes and duderinos (attempt at female dude version).
 
I fully support this decisions, i think it is a smart move. But most of all i want to say i love what you guys are doing.
I want to give some love, i want to let you know that there are many many MANY of us out there who love what you have made, 
who spent countless hours of awesome ass kicking and world exploring in your awesome world. You made something that brings joy. (do i sound like a wuss yet)
People who are happy will be less likely to post about how they feel, but those who are unhappy will be much more likely to.
DON'T THINK THAT THE NEGATIVE PEOPLE OUTNUMBER THE HAPPY. While gaming i mostly encounter content players. 
Ofc shit bugs out, ofc pvp feels random at times and pve can be frustrating. But the good out ways the bad by far. 
Pleas don't get discouraged. 
Sorry for my terrible English, im no native speaker. Keep up the good work!	
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Are you serious? I mean, well, of course you seem to be serious... but entry post... nothing to add.
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Hey all,
 
So a lot of folks have been speculating about our next drop and I wanted to talk about it in detail.
 
The plan was to roll out a zone next month, and a pretty badass one at that. The new zone and its contents not only sets up the epic ongoing world story of WildStar, but provides more group and solo content along with costumes, items, etc. What we hadn’t planned for was the mountain of feedback. You guys have been vocal about everything from bugs, early level content, attunement, PvP and Elder Game. And we were listening.
 
Because of that, we decided to make a change. We are adding a month’s worth of feedback and bugfixes to the mix based on player feedback and user experiences. These are changes to core systems such as economy, classes, PvP, crafting - you name it. We’re knocking out bugs and making changes to improve your gameplay experience. We want to roll these issues into the patch with the new zone content and that’s going to take some more time.
 
How much time you ask? That’s an excellent question! We’re going to take the time to make sure that this next patch is not only badass but bug free. I’ll update you again shortly with the list of details on what’s being addressed in the game and the timeframe.
 
And from the entire team, thanks for your continued patience and support. We can’t do this without you.
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What I can't figure out, is why this game was released, when their still MAJOR stuff missing.
 
Crafting armor/weapons/etc should be the base of what people can achieve for equipment.  Those that put the time in, to become expert crafters, are pretty much shat on in this game currently.  With the missing Refined Hybrid Power Cores, and the other rare Hybrid Power Cores, spending months to acquire eldan fragments for new recipes (IF YOU EVEN HAVE THE RECIPES TO RESEARCH) equals no beneficial gain. My main character is an Outfitter.  I recently learned level 3 pants in Expert Research.  After crafting a tun of pants, I ended up not wearing even one pair...   Pants turned out to be only 10 cummulative stat points better then my Basic Expert pants I could use a Refined Core to make, also the new pants don't have a special.  So for 10 more stat points, I loose a special.  So much for 3 tiers of supposed improvement over the base gear I made right when I turned 50.
 
Now if I should consider crafted equipment as the baseline for good gear, then you would think purple items would be based on an improved version of crafted.  As of now, I have little to strive for.  Purples are crap, most of the time do to odd stat combinations, or even less cummulative stats.  And don't get me started on rune slots.  These should be STATIC and based on the type of equipment stats.  If it's obviously a DPS gear, then it should have DPS runes.  Drop rates are already super poor for Purple plus items, and I don't think people want to try to hunt down multiple duplicate items, just to HOPE for a good stat combination. Really don't like the whole need for the right runes on gear, to be endgame fizable.  It's sad.
 
So how long must we continue to wait.  I've already seen a huge drop off in my guilds daily players.  Why?  Because too much is missing.  There are literally tons of recipes for crafted gear that are missing from loot tables vendor purchases.  Having everything in you tech tree, actually in the game, should have been the first fix.  Of course I don't think they should have been left out in the first place.  This screams INCOMPLETE game.
 
Please get your workers off their ass and start solving basic game issues like crafting and runes now!  Make sure if it's in the game database, it's actually in game.  Example.  Daggerstone/Bloodsworn Outfitter tier 5 recipes, or any levels for that fact.  Never seen one.  Should be common, so people can craft a basic PvP sets, to be able to PvP without being free kills...  Also, if your rated, can you farm/troll peops who are in practice battlegrounds to level up?  Seems like their should be a rating restriction on practice grounds if this is not the case.  Heck, I don't even want to PvP, but for some reason the best weapon I can get, is a 1800 rated PvP weapon.  DUMB!
 
FIX NOW FIX IT ALL,  thanks...	
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And don't get me started on rune slots.  These should be STATIC and based on the type of equipment stats.  If it's obviously a DPS gear, then it should have DPS runes.
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{| class="blockquote"
  And don't get me started on rune slots.  These should be STATIC and based on the type of equipment stats.  If it's obviously a DPS gear, then it should have DPS runes.  
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Why? Where's the interest in that? At that point, it's simply a money sink…  It then becomes simply a have or have not. Boring.
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You can still choose the stat that goes in it...  It just won't give you a guaranteed reroll like it does now.  Water is pretty much guaranteed reroll and a waste of gear for most DPS.
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Although I support the bigger & better patches "when they are ready" approach, like many people here have already said you might want to consider patching the fix patch before the content because people
are dropping like flies atm and the servers are dead.
 
Please the people first, content later.	
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Honestly, this game should not of been a subscription based game, people rush content, get bored, and unsubscribe so they don't have to spend more money than necessary on a game. In a market where new AAA MMO's come out almost every year, multiple times a year....You need to eliminate the barriers from the get go. As atrocious as SWTOR's F2P is, it's making 164 million $ in profit per quarter. And GW2 is so successful because people just have to buy the game, and then they can buy outfits & pets in a shop instead of paying a subscription per month that they may or may not get a money's worth update on.
 
Bigger, meatier and more exciting updates are great and all, but I think a large portion of the problem is that the games business model does not reflect the current market what-so-ever. Wildstar is great, the franchise potential it has is huge, but they need to present the game with modern systems that reflect what's going on in the genre as a whole. B2P, Mega Server Technologies, etc.	
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Love the idea of bug-free updates in principle. The problem is, I know better. I've never seen a game update that didn't introduce some bugs--games are, as developers themselves are fond of pointing out, big and complex systems where changes in one part can lead to unintended changes in another part. I always expect that the day of new patches/updates will be a day of great outrage as people discover that the update broke something. The only real question is whether the outrage will fade in a day or two as fixes get pushed to live, or will linger for a month because someone on the dev team isn't using the latest release for their coding or someone in QA has decided that they and they alone must approve everything before it goes live, immediately before leaving on vacation.
 
But since this game is so focused on hardcore players, I'd like to put this in terms that perhaps the devs will understand.
 
The thing that defines a hardcore development team is not that they achieve perfection in every release, as no development team has ever managed this. Instead, they recognize the reality that new things will introduce bugs and that their job immediately AFTER an update is to hunt those bugs down and fix them quickly. They have a streamlined process for doing this that involves sharing the latest versions among themselves so that old fixed bugs don't get reintroduced, and when feasible they push things to the PTR to test them for a few days before pushing them live. They don't put in a QA process where nobody has the authority to ever make a fix, nor do they leave major bugs in place when those same bugs are already fixed on the PTR.
 
They also don't insist on withholding both bug fixes AND new content until they're done with ADDITIONAL new content that has yet to even be designed, much less implemented. As a strategy, this one sounds--well, flatly insane. Do I correctly understand that your current plan is to withhold new content that the forum's white knights insist is not the cause for the delay, and you're going to withhold bug fixes that the people complaining about bugs insist are already live on the PTR, so that you can package those things together with changes to Attunement and gear slotting that aren't even through the design process yet?
 
Because if that is in fact your current plan, I suggest you have a sit-down with your team and look at the current plan and ask yourselves if it makes even the slightest bit of sense to withhold new content and bug fixes for months while you make even newer new content. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the changes you have planned. But that doesn't mean that I think everything else in the game should sit on pause until they're ready.	
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I love this game. The story is awesome, the game play is fun, I haven't enjoyed another MMO this much in years. 
 
This game has been out since July 3..... lets count July, August - OMG 2 months. What??? 2 months and its not fking perfect? 
 
Seriously, if you hate the game. If you truly hate it, leave. But most of you are saying, "I love the game but, well. you know bugs, pvp, are broken so I just can't stomach it anymore, I quit" Come on, peeps. That's how you want to do this? There is some real potential here for an amazing community. We have a group of devs that are bending over backwards to listen to us, a game that in its infancy is fking awesome. 
 
For those of us who say we want the game to be successful, then be supportive. The negative attitude gets around and brings down the community. Is the game unplayable? Fk no. Are there tweaks sure. In the past, have we gone through class changes (pvp,pve) in other games that we hate? - absolutely. So lay off. 
 
It is positive gamers that made past games the successes they were. Keep that in mind when you are about to post your next negative, non-constructive comment. 
10 years ago, we didn't care that there were bugs (well we did) in our favourite game but we played anyways, we were patient. Let's grant Carbine the same courtesy, I think they have earned it. 	
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If I'm at a restaurant and my chair is broken and they told me that they would replace my chair, but it wouldn't be brought out until our dinner was served, I probably wouldn't return to that establishment.
 
Point is, if you're paying for entertainment (or a service) and you find yourself more frustrated than entertained, then it is probably time to step back and revisit the venue at a later date, when they've had time to work out their internal struggles.	
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I love this game. The story is awesome, the game play is fun, I haven't enjoyed another MMO this much in years. 
 
This game has been out since July 3..... lets count July, August - OMG 2 months. What??? 2 months and its not fking perfect? 
 
Seriously, if you hate the game. If you truly hate it, leave. But most of you are saying, "I love the game but, well. you know bugs, pvp, are broken so I just can't stomach it anymore, I quit" Come on, peeps. That's how you want to do this? There is some real potential here for an amazing community. We have a group of devs that are bending over backwards to listen to us, a game that in its infancy is fking awesome. 
 
For those of us who say we want the game to be successful, then be supportive. The negative attitude gets around and brings down the community. Is the game unplayable? Fk no. Are there tweaks sure. In the past, have we gone through class changes (pvp,pve) in other games that we hate? - absolutely. So lay off. 
 
It is positive gamers that made past games the successes they were. Keep that in mind when you are about to post your next negative, non-constructive comment. 
10 years ago, we didn't care that there were bugs (well we did) in our favourite game but we played anyways, we were patient. Let's grant Carbine the same courtesy, I think they have earned it. 
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The big issues hurting the game are.
1. Gating-Rewards are bad, hard for new players to gear up. This includes Amp/Tier points. Bad implimentation.
2. Class balancing- SS are broken with thier cooldowns and bugs, but still no nerf to assasinate in pvp, which still hits like a 747. Warrior tanking is a joke even after the minor hotfix. Esper soothe still bugged. Also a new bug, my esper casts soothe, but it doesnt ever go off, I have to reloadui or log out in the middle of a dungeon to fix this. The list goes on, but I don't feel like pileing a compendium together.
3. Runes- This is the worst aspect of the game. Who thinks this much RNG is good? The thing I hate most about this game.
4. Server Pop- You say servers are fine, but I doubt you play on any of the low pop servers. People who are leveling can't do group content because no one is in those zones.
5.Elder gem prices- Just no. Either increase the max cap or lower the prices(action bars amps tiers etc,,,)
6. Dailies- Most boring aspect of the game(besides grinding adventures for gear). Where are the dungeon dailies?
 
If you push bag these fixes with the content drop, this game is going to lose a lot of people. No joke, in my guild I know 10+ people whoa re on the verge of quitting now, and 15 more who will quit if action isn't taken now. Push the content back, but do not push back these hot topics.	
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			Is there any news on AMD optimization updates?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
The big issues hurting the game are.
1. Gating-Rewards are bad, hard for new players to gear up. This includes Amp/Tier points. Bad implimentation.
2. Class balancing- SS are broken with thier cooldowns and bugs, but still no nerf to assasinate in pvp, which still hits like a 747. Warrior tanking is a joke even after the minor hotfix. Esper soothe still bugged. Also a new bug, my esper casts soothe, but it doesnt ever go off, I have to reloadui or log out in the middle of a dungeon to fix this. The list goes on, but I don't feel like pileing a compendium together.
3. Runes- This is the worst aspect of the game. Who thinks this much RNG is good? The thing I hate most about this game.
4. Server Pop- You say servers are fine, but I doubt you play on any of the low pop servers. People who are leveling can't do group content because no one is in those zones.
5.Elder gem prices- Just no. Either increase the max cap or lower the prices(action bars amps tiers etc,,,)
6. Dailies- Most boring aspect of the game(besides grinding adventures for gear). Where are the dungeon dailies?
 
If you push bag these fixes with the content drop, this game is going to lose a lot of people. No joke, in my guild I know 10+ people whoa re on the verge of quitting now, and 15 more who will quit if action isn't taken now. Push the content back, but do not push back these hot topics.
 
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To Mr. Donatelli,
 
First and foremost, I appreciate you reaching out to the community regarding the time extension between updates.  From someone who comes from the perspective of working within a large IT development shop, I greatly disagree with the approach that is being taken regarding some of the current problems in Wildstar.
 
Wildstar is a new game and was released with many systems and basic QoL functions that players have in their previous MMOs missing.  Due to a slews of problems introduced during the recent drops as well as existing problems, a large amount of population hemorraging has occurred.  This is negatively enhanced by the game's unfriendliness to a large segment of the playerbase due to huge time walls, attunement, various class breaking bugs, rank/gear domination in PvP, over zealous gold sinks, faction imbalance, functional issues with class skills not working correctly, and lack of customization options such as broken dye and wardobe systems (ok there are alot of problems, but alas! All hope is not lost!).
 
 
Some issues are to be expect in a new MMO launch.  As Toney Stark says at the end of Ironman 3 "You start with something pure. Something exciting. Then come the mistakes, the compromises."  Then you learn from the mistakes and create something refined.  Such is the way with many MMO development cycles.
 
Wildstar launched with many more problems than most MMOs I've played, namely because it was developed in a vacuum and is experiencing problems that other games have historically fixed (such as RIFT pvp, WoW raiding opening to large audiences, etc.).  Because of this, Wildstar's problems are even more unforgivable. These issues should have been mitigated before release by having the devs pay closer attention of the lessons learned in other games.
 
Other games like Guildwars 2 are suffering not because historical problems of the genre, but because they are introducing innovated systems that have never been seen by the MMO playerbase before (the living story model, lack of trinity gameplay, etc.).  Some of these ideas are not well accepted and are causing problems.  This is a better state to be in than Wildstar, which suffers from old problems that players have already seen before -problems that people do not expect to see in a new game.  Players are more likely to forgive problems with new ideas than problems they never want to see again because they suffered through them for 3-4 months back on WOW and RIFT.  You can compare Gw2 and Wildstar and see the different in populations.
 
Because of these mistakes (which are not small mistakes),Wildstar's playerbase has developed a lack of trust in the developers.  Resurrecting age old problems also causes players to feel as if the developers are incomptent because they are repeating past mistakes.
 
I do not agree with this idea of "snowballing" all of the fixes into this one huge release because this creates a sort of "All or nothing" approach where the security of the game hinges on the next drop.  I do not know what will happen to Wildstar, but if this development approach is continued and Drop 3 fails; irrepairable damage would be done to Wildstar.
 
A better approach would be to release QoL updates and feedback oriented bug squashing updates faster and on a quick fix schedule.  The players are justified in asking for these QoL fixes to be released as soon as possible and not bundled with new content (Spellslingers have suffered long enough, PvP in its current state is near unplayable, rune RNG is driving endgamers away from the game, etc.).
 
Despite some of the problems I've outlined above, I do like the game and want to see it succeed.  I do believe the developers are dedicated to the game and community but are expressing it in the wrong fashion.
 
I also believe that from my experience in Software Development Management, some of the wrong development cycle practices are being taken.  The game's reliance on the drop schedule indicates to me that waterfall development is being used in the background.
 
FOR BUGFIXES DO THIS:
 
 
The future of software development is in "Time to Market" development solutions like Agile Scrum or Spiral.  Agile Scrum allows the development team to break down coding solutions that are determined to be less than 100hrs and put them into 2 week development cycles, which would be great for bug fixes.  Scrum done properly with requirements support also tracks the issues and identifies interdependencies with other modules of the game, which is a problem that Wildstar development repeatedly suffers from (i.e. you make something then break something else because proper dependency maps weren't created).
 
 
The playerbase is also already an angry mob with limited patience and little faith in the game's development.  Rather than going "All or nothing" and risking the game's demise or success in one big patch, the developers have to earn back the trust of the players and show that feedback is being taken seriously by rolling out fast QoL and bug fixing updates on shorter time schedules.
 
For the players, time is money and success is dependent on delivery of solutions, not promises.  You can't ask for more time without giving your players something tangible (even one bug fix) and expect them to trust you.  This is especially true when players are paying a subscription for every month that they are left stuck with the serious bugs or broken systems that currently exist in the game.
 
Right now the memo above is asking people to be hopeful on the premise that somehow Jesus will rise from the grave and on drop 3 everything will be magically ok, which is far from reality.  If drop 3 is anything LESS than perfect, people will cry bloody murder.  The player hemorraging will become even worse because people will feel that their faith was misplaced if the drop doesn't deliver EXACTLY what they want.
 
Rolling out quickfixes is better than the above because it shows competency in priortization, builds TRUST with the player community, and allows for better feedback, and allows the developers to make fast high-impact tweaks on a smaller scale (as opposed to, "oh it will all be fixed next month, I promise.").
 
 
I do hope that this is taken seriously and that the development team (at least on the senior management side) looks at software development solutions from a business management perspective.  There is a need to adopt and implement a development solution that is more efficient, even if it means shifting the schedule of NEW content to the right in favor of delivering critical fixes to what is supposed to be a working game (this is the proper way to do things in software development anyway).
 
Players are more likely to accept a stairway to heaven (small fixes leading up to a better and cleaner release) than a leap of faith (a promise that everything will be delivered in one over-sanctified and ultra hyped drop that can possibly fail and cause nuclear damage).
 
DO THIS:
 
 
NOT THIS:
 
 
 
Anyway, I know this feedback is rough, but I only say it because I care.  I really am rooting for you guys.  Do yourselves a favor and hire a good Agile Scrum coach, set aside some developer resources to form a scrum team that targets quick fixes and 2week hotfix schedules.  Draw good dependency maps between your modules and keep a strong database of requirements and traceability between player feedback and delivered content.
 
That and make it a point to make your devs watch Silicon Valley on HBO, you can see alot of the software development pitfalls there (and laugh about them... or grow sad when you realize "holy crap this is what's going on in my organization!")
 
Whatever happens, I'll be around.
 
-Chmmr	
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Excellent post mr Chmmr!
 
I m waiting for an answer from mr Donatelli.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well-thought-out, constructive feedback.
 
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I'm really having a hard time understanding why a new set of changes has to delay what is basically ready to go contentDrop 3 as it was looked like it was near everything my guild wanted and pretty much everyone was excited for it. This was the first actual big meaningful patch for usexpert technologist finally getting put in was huge, the lack of tier 7 talent is a a bit disheartening though
the attunement change has everyone's hopes up that all the constant stream of replacement raiders won't have to be hand attuned every week and maybe get some talent that just had trouble with finding a group up to the top. A group that thought silver was easy to begin with is genuinely excited about making it less gated... who would of thought?and the rune changes... omg. The idea that we can actually wear our GA gear because it will be better than pre-epochos crafted blues, the day can't come soon enoughI mean i do understand your sentiment and appreciate it but man this has been on ptr near a month, everyone i know just chomping at the bit to get at it, and you pull it away when it's only a week off?That just seems cruel, unintentionally but still  =/	
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