Report 1505

Report #1505
Skillset: Moon Skill: Succumb
 Org: Moondancers Status: Completed Jul 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1 (tweak numbers).
Problem: Succumb is currently the only way in which a Moondancer can drain mana
(other than passive Banshee attacks). Currently Succumb is still easily cured as
it still runs on a pre-overhaul cure of Reshi. With the removal of forceable
metawake rendering sleeplocks a thing of the past this report looks to move
Succumb forward and make it a viable method for draining mana in 1v1 and also
group combat. This report also looks at removing waning as an aeon ability
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make succumb a 3p ability with 3s eq cost that lasts
 for 10s, ticking on-cast and once every 3s thereafter
 (total of 4 ticks). The drain should be a flat drain
 of 750, scaling to mental afflictions in the
 following manner: 1-3 mental affs on target, +750 per
 mental aff, 4 or more mental affs on the target,
 +1500 per mental aff (for each of the 4 or more affs,
 not just the 4th onwards). Upon being hit by a mental
 affliction while under the effects of succumb, it
 deals a flat 500 mana damage. Make wane a no-power
 ability with a 0.5s eq cost. On cast, deals 1500 mana
 damage and a tick of succumb's effect. Also removes
 succumb and cures the target of all mental affs. Does
 nothing when cast on a target not under succumb's
 effect.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to solution 1, have a succumb tick on a
 target (whether it be ticking from succumb, or
 triggered by a wane cast) with 4 or more mental affs
 also do a 1s stun.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: In addition to solution 1, have a target under
 succumb have a 2s movement delay that stacks with
 other sources of movement delay.
Player Comments:
---[Ryboi on 7/12 @ 15:25 writes]:
Okay removed the old report and have reworked it with the help of Lerad
hopefully making the report more meritable. Lerads notes can be found in this
link
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/3g5hjq1qrbryd65/succumb%20report.txt?dl=0
---[Demartel on 7/12 @ 15:28 writes]:
This looks interesting and innovative. I support it.
---[Lerad on 7/12 @ 15:40 writes]:
As a note, Ryboi approached me to help with the report around a week ago. I have
been busy the past week, and haven't logged on much, so I've procrastinated a
bit. But I managed to cobble together something based largely off Azula's forums
suggestion. I've never been an MD or a wiccan, so the numbers could do with some
work. But I feel waiting to see it in action is definitely a possibility, since
I think the concepts that Azula used in her suggestion are fairly solid. The
previous comments on the report definitely brought up some important points, but
since my suggestion does change up the solutions quite a bit, perhaps it might
not be too bad an idea to start on a fresh comment slate.
---[Synkarin on 7/12 @ 21:55 writes]:
So are we removing aeon from wane altogether? Sol 2 and 3 are too much. You're
already doing 6750 mana drain at a minimum (which wil be >50% for literally
everyone in the game considering the max mana pool anyone can have is 12420). I
don't know that I'd add the wane effect at the moment, I'd just change succumb
and see how that goes though.
---[Lerad on 7/13 @ 00:38 writes]:
Yes, removing aeon from wane was part of Azula's suggestion, and given my
biases, also the part I'm the most enthusiastic about. Aside from my obvious
desire to change wane in itself, I do think that it's an important aspect of a
burst class to be able to dictate when to go for the finisher instead of having
to wait for the tick - the give-and-take would be the full offense reset of
using the suggested wane effect: it would effectively make it waste the entire
offensive effort if they used it improperly. That will put most of the burden on
the MD to use the active effect. Another way to achieve this is to make the wane
effect stronger and the passive ticks weaker - but that's more coding effort. If
the coding resources are available, or after implementation, we decide the
passive pressure is too high, we can always tweak it that way - so as to
increase the burden to be on the user's active decision making rather than just
waiting for succumb to do the work. The execution threshold is just that, the
point of (pretty much) guarantee'd death. Obviously, we'll want to tweak the
threshold up (or even shorten the window) if it's too easy to achieve.
---[Wobou on 7/14 @ 02:30 writes]:
I can work with this overall idea but I think most of the numbers need to be
adjusted. I think the active mana drain on wane is too much for such a small eq
cost. The drain is so high that without using any mental affs at all you could
cast succumb and then wane someone to death immediately unless I'm misreading
something. My preference would be for succumb to have a higher eq cost (like
1-2s) and have its primary benefit be delivering the succumb tick rather than
the base damage. I think it would be wise to incorporate a % of max mana portion
in nearly all of these numbers otherwise MDs will be able to assassinate lower
level folks and not do as well against arti'd demis.
---[Ryboi on 7/14 @ 16:15 writes]:
If the wane implement of this report goes ahead it would be that once a single
wane is cast on the target it would remove succumb and cure all mental
afflictions on the target meting spammable wane would not be possible. With
regards to the drain it can ether by implements are base drains or a % of the
overall mana. I'm not too fussed ether way in honesty as long as it works and is
viable. If people feel the wane is too much of an adjustment we can remove the
part of the report and see how the succumb works out and address the Wane at a
later date
---[Shedrin on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes]:
Did some quick math. Sipping mana restores ~16.5% mana on average. Sparkleberry
10%, healing scroll 5% minimum, scaling up the higher the current mana. So an MD
must either burst to 18.5% mana if all are used immediately, burst to 50% +
hinder mana restoration, or drain more than 64.16% mana every 10s to outpace the
restoration.
---[Shedrin on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes]:
Potential tactic: (Beast spit + whammy + Crone tic + Dark tic) -> Succumb ->
Succumb tic + Wane -> Toad. On the first succumb, there would be 4 mental
afflictions on the target, assuming good rng, resulting in 6750 mana drain. If
the target has 10,800 mana (easily achievable for a caster), then they will
restore about 3400, leaving them at ~7450 (69%). 3s later, they will have cured
two more mental afflictions, Succumb will tic for 2250 drain, leaving them at
48% mana, give or take a few percent (so they might be above 50%). Wane can then
be used to drain an additional 3750 mana, leaving them at ~13.5% mana. .5s
later, the MD can toad if they have properly timed things so they've regained
one power.
---[Shedrin on 7/14 @ 21:17 writes]:
So based on that, it definitely seems pretty strong. That tactic only makes use
of one tic of Succumb, and doesn't make use of the drain on applying a mental
affliction. The weakness is that you could accidentally stack the same mental
affliction, they could resist being afflicted, especially the poison, and they
can hinder, shield or run.
---[Shedrin on 7/14 @ 21:22 writes]:
This can get even crazier in groups, of course. I think it might be wise to
lower the drains, and add a bit of hindering either in Succumb (like Solution 2,
but for all tics no matter what), or elsewhere in Moon. Also probably should add
a way to actively give mental afflictions for non-Hexen MDs.
---[Lerad on 7/16 @ 00:45 writes]:
All good points. Tweaking the numbers to be lower may be an idea - we can always
tweak them back up. I'll defer to those who actually have wiccan/guardian
experience in the numbers. For the point about adding hinder to succumb, a stun
on all succumb ticks regardless of the target's status is definitely not a good
idea. Stuns will have to be walled behind a threshold, otherwise, it'll be too
overbearing. Regarding the concern about the burst tactic Shedrin mentioned,
perhaps the follow up report on Dark/Crone can turn them from passive to active
- giving non hexen MDs a way to give mental affs actively as well as reducing
the potential for zero-affs -> four-affs -> threshold-succumb just by the virtue
of timing passives. The concept that an MD needs to pressure vitals, pressure
curing balances and actually work to build the affs first before reaping the
benefits of succumb is one I can support. A temporary solution can be to raise
the threshold to 5, and in the same report as the followup on Dark/Crone, drop
it back to 4, something like that.
---[Shedrin on 7/19 @ 12:22 writes]:
Ok, I made a mistake and my math above is incorrect. I forgot to account for the
fact that slush balance is 1s now over 1.5. For the combo above I posted, it
still leads to a kill with the target having ~34% mana. This does make it more
inconsistent, though, and lowers the power of other combos.