121950-the-free-to-play-thread

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== Content ==
			So guys lets all sign this thread so we can revive the game. thanks!  :rolleyes:	
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			Free to play drop 5 confirmed.  	
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			Yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh	
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So guys lets all sign this thread so we can revive the game. thanks!  :rolleyes:
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Free to play with cash shop full of kitty resonators.
 	
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https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/118342-why-is-f2p-thought-as-a-bad-thing/?hl=free%20play
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/114676-on-f2p-the-possibility-of/?hl=free%20play
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/115520-say-no-to-f2p/?hl=free%20play
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/121214-would-you-be-ok-with-a-buy-to-play-model/?hl=free%20play
 
 
I recommend using the search function before creating new "official" threads about a topic that is already being debated to death on these forums.	
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			No Free To Play.	
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			why are people against this? the game is dead already rofl.	
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			Ya'll nuggahs posting in a troll thread	
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			is ncsoft makin money off this game now? nope. only way is f2p	
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			Free to play, no. They tend to get really shitty.A hybrid of a buy2play/sub game where you can play without a sub, but some features will be locked. Now that I approve of.	
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			No. Can we please just lock this? As Blabberpus mentioned, there's already numerous threads about it. Why does every other thread get the mod response of, "There's already a thread about this, so I'm locking it." Instead we get one of these every week with minimal support and overwhelming disdain.	
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No. Can we please just lock this? As Blabberpus mentioned, there's already numerous threads about it. Why does every other thread get the mod response of, "There's already a thread about this, so I'm locking it." Instead we get one of these every week with minimal support and overwhelming disdain.
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First of all:
 
 
Secondly:
 
 
 
and finnaly:
 	
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is ncsoft makin money off this game now? nope. only way is f2p
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Can I see your analysis of NCSoft's market report?
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This is so official.
 	
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			It needs to happen.	
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It needs to happen.
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			People think the only way to revive a game is F2P, and they get to play without paying it's 2 birds with 1 stone for them. Not once do they consider the negative environment of completely F2P and how there will be much more aggressive methods to obtain money from players in F2P models.The general feeling I get is a lot of players go into a F2P game thinking this is free I'll never pay I'm so smart, then a month later they're down $50-100. :)	
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Pros and cons for F2P :
 
+ My friends (and people in general) who can't really afford a game sub will be able to play to one of the best MMOs ever released
 
- Paying items (vanity or gear) will appear and grow quickly
- We will have a lot of """optionnal""" features requiring us to pay
- In the end, we will probably pay more than now ; not paying will only be an option for those not really invovled
- After a few years the content added will be very poor.
 
So no. Please, as long as they can continue to have a sub-based game, let's continue. A glance at Rift or SWTOR (two games I really like) are compelling example to not wat F2P for a MMORPG.
However, I don't understand why there still are codes required to try the game, with a limitation at level 15 or 20 (for example) like in WoW or Rift, anyone can quickly create an account, give it a shot and see wether the game is for them or not. This requirement makes no sens to me... (Maybe there are reasons, but I can't think of one :/ )	
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it won't
Why does it "need" to happen? What's your argument outside: "I don't want to pay"
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			ok supporters of the non free to play tell me something whens the last time 5s, rbgs, and 3s have popped that wasnt to win trade? rofl. since release pretty much? game is dead, it needs more players to make it boom plus they'd make way more money if it was free.	
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I use credd, the only thing keeping this game afloat.
 
To fix a glaring population issue as this game certainly isn't worth the sub in the eyes of the gaming community, and that isn't going to change.  Besides, F2P is only a bad thing if they implement it incorrectly.
 
Either that or carbine is going to have to try A LOT harder if they intend to sustain a P2P model.
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You already know how people feel on this subject: https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/118719-free-to-play/&do=findComment&comment=1234784
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ok supporters of the non free to play tell me something whens the last time 5s, rbgs, and 3s have popped that wasnt to win trade? rofl. since release pretty much? game is dead, it needs more players to make it boom plus they'd make way more money if it was free.
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			Please keep personal attacks out of the replies, as they do violate our code of conduct. 	
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The Official Free to Play Reply Post:
 
No.
 
To elaborate on this, let me discuss the pros and cons.
 
Pros:
 
The reply was very concise, using only the word no.
 
Cons:
 
The reply could have had more 'no's in it.
 
Happy Friday all.
 
Yours,
 
-AN
 
P.S.  No.	
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ok supporters of the non free to play tell me something whens the last time 5s, rbgs, and 3s have popped that wasnt to win trade? rofl. since release pretty much? game is dead, it needs more players to make it boom plus they'd make way more money if it was free.
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Hey,
 
Please no F2P. I'm afraid that F2P will bring tons of anonymous trolls who will just shit all over this gem of a game, ruin the community, and leave.
 
Cheers,
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Hey,
 
Please no F2P. I'm afraid that F2P will bring tons of anonymous trolls who will just shit all over this gem of a game, ruin the community, and leave.
 
Cheers,	
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Ah, in fact it WAS you:
 
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listen the game is fine, this isn't casual fest wow. just get better at the game or dont pvp. if anything they need to remove the gear score.
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			This game with changes will be good as sub game with creed option. So right now I would say NO to f2p.	
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Ah, in fact it WAS you:
 
 
 
Well, I decided not to PvP. And I know I'm not the only one.
 
So no, you don't get to demand the game go F2P to build the population after you told those of us interested in PvP to "dont pvp".
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			God not this again. How difficult is it to pony up $15/month? Every single F2P game I've played has had a terrible, "in your face" implementation. I (speaking for myself) refuse to play a game that microtransaction's the fun and immersion out of it.	
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My name is Ecstasy I used to PVP until I could only fight 2 teams every day for a month and they were friends that we coordinated fighting eachother every time because 10 people PVP'd. Besides these two teams (Maybe 4 teams total) in all of wildstar population would end up as good matches for us and the rest became 4/0 wins in our favor and then they would cry and quit because the population in PVP is less than the number of posts in this thread.
 
F2p for wildstar is not a bad option PURELY BECAUSE... The art direction of wildstar is fantastic and making a cash shop with purely costume/mounts and housing items(Oh lord the nerds that would probably pay for housing items alone...) would more than likely generate plenty of revenue yet alone adding x2 elder gem gaining potions for 24 hours or increase elder gem cap for the week by X amount. yata yata all things that wildstar can put in the market and leave the game EXACTLY as it is now where you can still obtain everything in the exact same way while making the game F2P and not causing any PAY TO WIN conflict inside of wildstar because the game has so many different aspects to it that are non detrimental to gameplay that they can add and charge cash for.
 
If they actually did this they would more than likely make enough money to get back onto the original drop schedule.
 
Thus concluding I love you Wonderpumpkin and I approve of the F2P... 	
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My name is Ecstasy I used to PVP until I could only fight 2 teams every day for a month and they were friends that we coordinated fighting eachother every time because 10 people PVP'd. Besides these two teams (Maybe 4 teams total) in all of wildstar population would end up as good matches for us and the rest became 4/0 wins in our favor and then they would cry and quit because the population in PVP is less than the number of posts in this thread.
 
F2p for wildstar is not a bad option PURELY BECAUSE... The art direction of wildstar is fantastic and making a cash shop with purely costume/mounts and housing items(Oh lord the nerds that would probably pay for housing items alone...) would more than likely generate plenty of revenue yet alone adding x2 elder gem gaining potions for 24 hours or increase elder gem cap for the week by X amount. yata yata all things that wildstar can put in the market and leave the game EXACTLY as it is now where you can still obtain everything in the exact same way while making the game F2P and not causing any PAY TO WIN conflict inside of wildstar because the game has so many different aspects to it that are non detrimental to gameplay that they can add and charge cash for.
 
If they actually did this they would more than likely make enough money to get back onto the original drop schedule.
 
Thus concluding I love you Wonderpumpkin and I approve of the F2P... 
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How often do I have to do this?  Some troll opens a new thread weekly.
 
Fine, you can have F2P as long as the following conditions are met:
 
-Free players are the only one that needs to visit a cash shop.  All sub and CREDD users get everything developed that month for the price of their sub.
 
-Free players get to have ads plastered into their game data, which sub and CREDD users do not need.
 
-If you want to sell P2W options, it's going to be because free players have had their experience, reputation, and other gains significantly downgraded and they'll be paying to play the game at the normal rates of gains.  Sub and CREDD players play as normal and get no use out of those items.  No gear will be sold.
 
-If you want to gate content, only free players will need to buy dungeon keys.  Sub and CREDD players have unlimited access.
 
And there you go.  As long as the free players are the ones shouldering all the inconvenience and being squeezed for their money, and the Sub and CREDD players can continue on as normal, knowing that a free player cannot buy a competitive advantage and we'll never have to pay more than 15 dollars a month (or however much you can get CREDD for on your server) to get access to the entirety of developed content.
 
Anything else is a non-starter.  No one should be expected to pony up more money than they're already paying so that a bunch of people can play for nothing.  That isn't our burden to carry, and we're not going to be having development time siphoned off to create content that we then have to pay additional money for.  I'm not going to have Carbine giving me an allowance that I can spend on the myriad things in their shop that I paid for them to develop.  I'm especially not doing it so that a bunch of people can play for a month and never touch a rated PVP queue, then drop the game anyway.  I'm certainly not accepting the idea of having to pay to make myself even competitive on the global scene.
 
There are ways they could introduce a free to play option that wouldn't make me leave, but I have a feeling players asking for F2P wouldn't actually like having themselves inconvenienced and squeezed for extra cash instead of us.  But if you really think that giving people a way to not pay the equivalent of a meal for two at Wendy's per month would get them into the game, fine, let them deal with the consequences of that system.  Fifteen dollars is all that's been asked of us by NCSoft, it's obviously enough to fund my portion of the game's development and maintenance, there should be no suggestion to pay a penny more.	
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I still think they should easy the introduction price since it's a decent "future" investment.
instead of s box price, 1 week free play time and then a subscription price might be a better option. It's far easier then to try the game without being attached to it or invest money into it.
Or make it so that current players can make friend keys to give away to their friends for 1 week.
 
They had plans like this and wasn't it said to be planned with this drop actually? I hope to see something like that soon.	
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I still think they should easy the introduction price since it's a decent "future" investment.
instead of s box price, 1 week free play time and then a subscription price might be a better option. It's far easier then to try the game without being attached to it or invest money into it.
Or make it so that current players can make friend keys to give away to their friends for 1 week.
 
They had plans like this and wasn't it said to be planned with this drop actually? I hope to see something like that soon.
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			It looks like his big argument for Free to Play is due to lacking PvP. Drop 5 is rumored to have a lot of PvP overhaul. Can we just hold this conversation until a month after Drop 5 hits the live servers. I'm sure if the improvements they are looking to make will be a big help. Especially the lessening of the gear gaps.	
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I still think they should easy the introduction price since it's a decent "future" investment.
instead of s box price, 1 week free play time and then a subscription price might be a better option. It's far easier then to try the game without being attached to it or invest money into it.
Or make it so that current players can make friend keys to give away to their friends for 1 week.
 
They had plans like this and wasn't it said to be planned with this drop actually? I hope to see something like that soon.
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You can go free to play all you would like, As long as I, as a paying customer, See NOTHING that reminds me of free to play. A cash shop as a paying play should not even be relevant to me because I already payed for that content. Nothing sold anywhere for actual cash should at any point make anyone have a higher advantage than I, as a paying customer. Cash shops should only bring free to play players to an equivalent advantage as paying players. Essentially, the only people that can benefit from the cash shop will be free to play players with the exception of the already existing CREDD system. Any cash shop items that force me to pay for content shall be voided as long as I am a monthly paying player or CREDD user on the basis of being a monthly paying player means that I have already paid for content. 
 
TL;DR: If you pay monthly, no change for you at all.
 
Free to Play players have to pay for content.	
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Here's the problem
 
Wildstar doesnt have the gameplay to run F2P without undermining one of the most fundamental aspects of the game: Housing
 
Think about it, 90% of the cash shop goods would be decor or other housing based items. This would completely kill any new player's will to build some of the amazing stuff that you guys have produced over the last few months. Imagine getting into housing, opening up the decor store and finding that you can only buy a tiny fraction of the goods and that all of the really cool or interesting items are locked behind a paywall.
 
This would likely remove all and any need to put decor inside dungeons etc (which as someone who does enjoy the housing scene would disappoint me) as well as killing pretty much all interest in the housing system for new players and old.
 
The customization system in this game is such an integral part of it that adding a system like a cash shop would completely ruin the experience for a huge chunk of the playerbase. That combined with the tendancy for F2P games having a very fast player flux would likely make the roster boss issues far worse than better.
 
This game needs more players, yes. This can be done through lowering the price of the box, adding free trials that are either fixed duration or to a set level (preferred), MUCH better advertising and continuing to do a fantastic job of fixing all of the silly QOL things. PvP sucks atm, yes but having a game with poor pvp (that the devs are genuinelly working on improving) is better than having a game that undermines one of its fundamental selling points	
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 But if you really think that giving people a way to not pay the equivalent of a meal for two at Wendy's per month...
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Best line ever lol.
 
 
 
Customization and housing is my end game. I have played since the second month after launch and have still never been in a raid, and I am okay with that. It took me forever to get attuned, and I am okay with that. I spent a ton of time in housing, character customization, and dare I say that one of the most exciting things (for me) about drop 4 was the ability to finally change your characters appearance. I know I am not the only one and many people find this as their "endgame" as well. To me and for many others, taking things like this and charging people for it is equivalent to putting a price on every dungeon and raid before you can enter. I agree with your reply, I think that there are much better ways to draw players into the game rather and just jumping to free to play. Honestly, I have seen very little advertisement of WildStar and I didn't even learn of its existence until I saw a random "suggested" YouTube video while searching for a new MMO to play. Before actually getting into WildStar, I never even noticed the small amount of advertisement until I actually had an eye for WildStar and realized I had been staring at these ads for quite a while. I think a bit more advertising would take this game a long way.
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You don't even need that, common sense alone is enough.
Have you seen the influx of people lately?
That's an increase alone right there.
 
Also, from the NCSoft financial report, which you can download from their site:
 
Net income : +43%
Operating Profit: +25%
Wildstar Sales Royalties: 13573 -> 14842
"Variable expense was down largely due decreased BOX sales of WildStar"
So make of it what you want, but those numbers look positive.
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If half of the people here asking for free 2 play have played Swtor and Rift and have go past mid game, they will understand something:
 
Free 2 play do not fix population at high levels, and even less end game.
 
Will only fix the early zone issues.	
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			Was wondering when Kriggles would show up.	
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Also there is a balance issue on how much content you can give for free vs how much is worth paying a sub (extra goodies), instead of playing for free.
 
Also f2p don't fix a game mechanic, PvP or leveling experience.
 
And that's why I'm in for Carbine to fix those, then do some heavy advertisement to bring people in game. If that doesn'work, then I guess they will have to opt for plan B.
 
But many people don't like f2p model, while it bring new people, it will cause a mass exodus. See TESO threads on the internet and the community response.	
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How is you using CREDD, "the only thing keeping it afloat"?
A lot of players actually have a sub running and buy additional CREDD to get their platinum ingame.
So that argument is already out of the window.
 
Fix glaring population issues?
Have you seen the massive influx of new people with Drop 4? Have you read the feedback everywhere?
There goes argument number 2
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How is you using CREDD, "the only thing keeping it afloat"?
A lot of players actually have a sub running and buy additional CREDD to get their platinum ingame.
So that argument is already out of the window.
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			Yeah $5 signup should be perfect and the first month free, i think i can bring some friends then to the game to try it out.	
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			Corret me if i'm wrong. Been a while since I played it. Is EvE's client free to download?	
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Corret me if i'm wrong. Been a while since I played it. Is EvE's client free to download?
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			I like the current payment method in Wildstar, however i think it's neccessary to do something to increase population.*First of all, give people free trial, I know some people who are interested in W* but can't get guest pass to check game. It may lead to increase amount of new players. *Although I treat the game like B2P, and can afford CREED for in game currency, some people don't want to begin playing beacuse of subscription, they're used to paying for game once. I think that good solution would be changing system to B2P with Item Shop. However, it should contain only cosmetics like costumes, mounts etc., which would be tradeable (it would fill the hole of subscription and CREEDs, because you can't keep online game servers for price of boxes only).I hope that state of the population will get better. It's my favourtie MMO I love it's world and gameplay. however it's sad beacuse I remember when like half year ago I could find random people for battlegrounds in a moment, and maps were full of people. Maybe sometimes these times will be back.	
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Ok so I feel I will put in my two cents  reguardless of being a new player to here, sorry ahead of time for bad spelling and grammer.
 
 I personaly would have to disagree with the F2P model, and having friends who are not playing this because they do not do P2P.
 
 Now why do I disagree with it, well currently right now the only real paid for benifits are buying CREDD to sale and name changes ( and pretty sure server transfers, but being only one pve and pvp server I dont think this would be used much. ) CREDD is probly netting them quite a bit of money, seeing that it cost more to buy CREDD to sale than running a constant 1 month sub ( sub 1 month 14.99+tax  CREDD 19.99+tax ) so since CREDD is not just being giving out for free people who buy in game money wise is still giving contribution to paying seeing that a player has to pay money for the CREDD to sale it in game.
 
 If this game went F2P I could see it going to ruins fast, quite a few games I have played have left bad impressions on me on the F2P model, and reguardless of the bad reviews or negitive feedback I read on this game I still decied to give it a shot ( and so far I plan on keeping my sub ) with housing being a big thing for me.
 
  When I was keeping up with this game before its launch ( I did not play beta  or buy from the get go as at the time my graphics card would not run this ) I saw somewheres were it was said why they chose the P2P model and that they knew they could make more money on the F2P model, but they wanted a game where things are gotten in game and not from a cashshop payment ( from either rng  or currencies or crafting. ) Not to mention quite alot of F2P games start running downhill and start just focusing on cashshop over content.
 
 That being said though, it would be nice to have friends that do not have to pay to play in a F2P model, but then again in the end it would probly be like guild wars 2 all over again for this where even though you could buy the gems for in game money, someone was having to buy the gems to sale for in game money and all that, plus then they added things like gathering tools that are not breakable and such ( a lot of my friends did not see a point of playing it because of cash shop walls. )  Here though since CREDD is a good option of buying it with in game money and getting sub time, someone has to buy that.
 
  Now what I can say if you want to make a improvement and get more players into here, keep the sub route but do not require payment info just only let them activate they bought game key and warn that once the 30 days are up they either
 
 a) Have to sub with valid payment informantion, or add game time with a game card to keep playing
 
 b) Buy CREDD from the in game CREDD selling vendor to add 30 more days.
 
Reason this would be good is because once someone buys the game they do not have to use payment info or gametime cards to activate it, so they would get the 30 days to see if they like it or not. Once they figure it out  they might either  sub   or use a time card, and even if they buy CREDD in game some other player had to buy that and sell it on the vendor that deals with that and since that accualy costs slightly more than a 1 month sub option the company still is getting its money for that sub.
 
 
 So I say no to F2P but how about getting rid of the needed payment info to activate the game instead that would work better.	
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http://www.amazon.com/NCSOFT-Wildstar-Online-Game-Code/dp/B00IYWV5HS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423235602&sr=8-1&keywords=wildstar
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			fix the game performance and u will have tons of ppl coming back 	
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			If it went F2P a LOT of people would play it for the PvP. Pls CRB!!! 	
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I still think they should easy the introduction price since it's a decent "future" investment.
instead of s box price, 1 week free play time and then a subscription price might be a better option. It's far easier then to try the game without being attached to it or invest money into it.
Or make it so that current players can make friend keys to give away to their friends for 1 week.
 
They had plans like this and wasn't it said to be planned with this drop actually? I hope to see something like that soon.
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but its already very low, on amazon at this exact moment its at USD 20 http://www.amazon.com/NCSOFT-Wildstar-Online-Game-Code/dp/B00IYWV5HS/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1423086299&sr=1-1&keywords=wildstar, and in the wildstar store its like USD 40 months ago. So you now got what you want
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Corret me if i'm wrong. Been a while since I played it. Is EvE's client free to download?
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			Warhammer did a Free to Play trial to level 20. The level 20 Open World PvP was the largest bracket in the game.	
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			and thats the price already vic, as i said on amazon you can get it for USD 20	
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and thats the price already vic, as i said on amazon you can get it for USD 20
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I know I may only sub for a month here and there in Wildstar, but why do some even want f2p?  I assume though the OP is a troll as they know a topic like this gets people going.  To play along though the reason I feel f2p is a horrible idea is because I have tried many of the other main stream mmo's that are out or have been put to rest and I tried them when they were sub based then again at f2p and every single one of them was even worse then when they were sub based. (excluding ESO since it isn't using the new model yet)
 
The games I tried sub then f2p were:  AoC, Aion, Tera, STO, Rift, ToR, TSW, CoH, Warhammer, LotR feels like I am missing one but this will do.  Yes I cancelled my sub on all of those games (except ToR until it went f2p and played since beta) after 1-2 months.  They just didn't appeal to me and what I was looking for.  Tried them all again when they were f2p and the experience was even worse.
 
My best example is ToR as that was actualy an mmo I played a lot like WoW and their is a huge difference you can tell with it as f2p than when it was sub based.  For one the content will come out even slower and when they do they make it seem like it is a lot and huge, like this latest expansion they released, and it ended up being pretty bad and extremely small.  You could finish the new content in a matter of hours.  Like 6-7.  They also are known to release a "harder mode" of a raid (operation they call them) and call that the big content added.
 
So yeah, if you want Wildstar to focus on a cash shop and produce less content in a longer span of each content patch along with the quality of the game going down then YAY f2p all the way! 
 
 	
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			This is one of the last p2p mmos out there, and it should stay that way, It hasnt even been out for a year yet, and yes, it is making a profit.	
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I'm honestly sick of these threads. My answer isn't going to change no matter how many pop up. I do NOT want this game to go F2P. I don't want to have to pay for extra features from a cash shop nor do I want the game to be flooded with hackers and trolls. I'll happily pay for a subscription because everyone gets access to everything and no one has an advantage over anyone else.
 
To be honest, F2P = Pay2Win, at least from my experiences.	
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			who wants to pay any money to play a dead game?	
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who wants to pay any money to play a dead game?
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			all 40 of em? so, when playin wow at 3 am i can get a que for any playlist... and RANKED! what about this game?	
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all 40 of em? so, when playin wow at 3 am i can get a que for any playlist... and RANKED! what about this game?
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Your typical Wildstar community has a fear of Losing in ranked PVP.... while your average WoW folks play for fun. Sad day.
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			ok then how about guild wars 2 its the same way lol	
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all 40 of em? so, when playin wow at 3 am i can get a que for any playlist... and RANKED! what about this game?
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Comparing any game's population to the population of WoW is a tired and overused argument.  Please read this carefully:
 
WILDSTAR =/= WORLD OF WARCRAFT
 
Stop acting like it is, does, or should.  I haven't seen the game this populated since I started last June, so I don't know what your problem could be.
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ok then how about guild wars 2 its the same way lol
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GW2 had a more successful launch, but they still force the cash shop in your face at every turn.  I'd rather pay $15 than be forced to buy and open 200+ Black Lion Chests to have a CHANCE at getting nice things.
 
This game isn't dead.  Your argument is.  Stop beating it like a deceased equine.
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I don't know, I log into a guild full of people and a pretty extensive friends list every night.  Last time through Celestion I saw a ton of people, and that was before Drop 4.
 
Being an Exile on Entity seems to be a benefit.
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{| class="blockquote"
I also have lately seen people post, "Wildstar still has a chance to be a WoW killer."  People need to realize no mmo new, old, in the future will not kill WoW.  It won't even put a dent in it.  People need to move on that WoW will be the #1 population/sub game. 
 
I wouldn't call Wildstar hugely populated though.  I have seen maybe 1-2 people in the Biodome 3 area at peak time the other night and 0 people in Biodome 4 so far when I was on peak time.  I will say it does show people returning as I came back for the month and am enjoying leveling, but population wise no doubt it feels like a ghost town.
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			It is dead...If I am unable to do rank of any kind. For ME that is dead. It needs to go free to play. It does not have to be pay to win but why is Riot Games(League of Legends) a profitable company/game? Cause of skins. People buy skins. It is all cosmetic. Game needs to go free to play in that way so more people play the game. It is frustrating not being able to do what you truly like in this game. It is a great game but it needs more players. End of story. More players means more people in queues and more people to fill out guilds for more challenging content. PVE and PVP both benefit. The naysayers who are super against f2p is retarded. You do not even know how Wildstar would do it. There is multiple ways to do f2p. Nobody here wants to see pay to win. Pay to win is not what we are arguing for. Hopefully Wildstars devs/producers will choose a model that is not pay to win...until that happens you should chill out.  Maybe we can outline as a player base what kind of f2p that we could be ok with.	
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			Population does not feel like a ghost town at max level. Not sure why everyone keeps saying its dead.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Population does not feel like a ghost town at max level. Not sure why everyone keeps saying its dead.
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{| class="blockquote"
Population does not feel like a ghost town at max level. Not sure why everyone keeps saying its dead.
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Look it is clear that many of you are confused or are misinterpreting the idea of F2P.  I will address some of the falsehoods that some people have.
 
The issue of not being able to pay $15 a month is not an issue.  The issue is that people don't want to pay the $15 for a game that does not have a population or q pops.
 
Free to play is not pay to win.  I don't know who told you this, but i assure you that it would be a a cash shop that is just like GW2.  Along with the cash shop they will include a $15 premium that gives some sort of incentive to sub.
 
Wildstar does not have a thriving population.  You can say you see "tons" of people in illium, but that is only half of the story.  You are talking about one of the two MEGAservers.  Warhound illium at anytime of the day will have around 5 people in it.  With the only PvP q's that pop being Pbgs, and those being unknown or 20+ minutes when they do start to pop.
 
No one wants the game to be free to play, but the chances of everyone coming back is extremely unlikely.  If the game was doing great then we wouldn't be here having this conversation.  It's too late for this game to recover from drops.  If F2P doesn't come at or before the one year mark I have no hope for the game.	
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			/signed	
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{| class="blockquote"
???
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If it went F2P a LOT of people would play it for the PvP. Pls CRB!!! 
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			Free to play is the death of games. It attracts the kind of players I have no interest in playing with.	
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			I hate F2P as much as anyone else, but anyone saying the game's populated is lying to you. The entire Defile area on ENTITY is desolated, as is most of Blighthaven. The only place you see people in is a sparsely populated Thayd (not even close to the first months) and dungeons/raids.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I hate F2P as much as anyone else, but anyone saying the game's populated is lying to you. The entire Defile area on ENTITY is desolated, as is most of Blighthaven. The only place you see people in is a sparsely populated Thayd (not even close to the first months) and dungeons/raids.
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{| class="blockquote"
Not sure what server or time you play but this has not been my experience of course I also have a large friends list of very active players.
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but an active friends list makes for active zones too.
 
look even in wow low lvls xan be barren untill you reach endgame and thats where all the players sit
 
its with most mmos actually	
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{| class="blockquote"
Free to play with cash shop full of kitty resonators.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
but an active friends list makes for active zones too.
 
look even in wow low lvls xan be barren untill you reach endgame and thats where all the players sit
 
its with most mmos actually
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The freemium hybrid with sub for unlimited access for all content alongside limited access (10 bgs per week/ 10 dungeons per week/ slower xp gain, etc.) for free players.  CREDD then still functions as a sub.  This would allow for no p2w cash shop and allow new players an easier entry into the game to begin farming for gold to convert to CREDD.
 
In any case, they need to unlock free trials for all up to 30 the same as they provided for pre-orders in OBT.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The freemium hybrid with sub for unlimited access for all content alongside limited access (10 bgs per week/ 10 dungeons per week/ slower xp gain, etc.) for free players.  CREDD then still functions as a sub.  This would allow for no p2w cash shop and allow new players an easier entry into the game to begin farming for gold to convert to CREDD.
 
In any case, they need to unlock free trials for all up to 30 the same as they provided for pre-orders in OBT.
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Alrighty, free to play huh? No is my answer, unless the game gets worse I don't think it needs b2p/f2p, The game is growing everyday and f2p only encourages poor behavior 
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
The freemium hybrid with sub for unlimited access for all content alongside limited access (10 bgs per week/ 10 dungeons per week/ slower xp gain, etc.) for free players. CREDD then still functions as a sub. This would allow for no p2w cash shop and allow new players an easier entry into the game to begin farming for gold to convert to CREDD.
 
In any case, they need to unlock free trials for all up to 30 the same as they provided for pre-orders in OBT.
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I could see a B2P model where players who play for free has the following reservations:
 
1) Can only buy the basic house of their race
2) Have a decor limit of 100
3) Can only queue for practice instanced PvP
4) Can only whisper to neighbours, friends, guild, circle and account friends
 
 
Is barred from:
 
1) entering raids
2) queuing for veteran dungeons
3) entering veteran dungeons
4) trading with other players (anti-gold farmer)
5) using the CX/AH (anti-gold farmer)
6) picking up items from the ingame mail
7) attaching items to an ingame mail
8) speaking in world wide zone chats (trade, advice, etc)
 
 
If such a model was implemented I think the game overall would benefit. This is sort of a free access, but premium content is reserved for paying customers (paying = C.R.E.D.D).
 
The first month is a teaser period, where the customer experiences the full package, after that is gated (if not paying) - but retains access to the game. In my Telco company that's how we maximizes the number of people paying for the premium (TV, ValueAddedService) packages :)	
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This thread really needs to stop popping up over and over.
I've played several F2P games over the years, and several where you still had the option to Sub for extra content...and I will never ever again play a game like that. It's interesting at first, but I'm so tired of the cash shop (and don't you dare tell me not to worry, it'd only be housing stuff and cosmetic items on the CS because those are vastly important to me and I will NEVER spend that much money on a game ever again) and of the eight bajillion currencies for different types of things based on if it's F2P content or old subbed content, etc. I'm tired of the stupid little lock boxes EVERY f2p games has that cost real money to get a key to open or tons of in game money to buy the in game version of cash shop money to get the key, just for a tiny chance of something "good".
 
Can you hear the bitters?	
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{| class="blockquote"
This thread really needs to stop popping up over and over.
I've played several F2P games over the years, and several where you still had the option to Sub for extra content...and I will never ever again play a game like that. It's interesting at first, but I'm so tired of the cash shop (and don't you dare tell me not to worry, it'd only be housing stuff and cosmetic items on the CS because those are vastly important to me and I will NEVER spend that much money on a game ever again) and of the eight bajillion currencies for different types of things based on if it's F2P content or old subbed content, etc. I'm tired of the stupid little lock boxes EVERY f2p games has that cost real money to get a key to open or tons of in game money to buy the in game version of cash shop money to get the key, just for a tiny chance of something "good".
 
Can you hear the bitters?
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{| class="blockquote"
This thread really needs to stop popping up over and over.
I've played several F2P games over the years, and several where you still had the option to Sub for extra content...and I will never ever again play a game like that. It's interesting at first, but I'm so tired of the cash shop (and don't you dare tell me not to worry, it'd only be housing stuff and cosmetic items on the CS because those are vastly important to me and I will NEVER spend that much money on a game ever again) and of the eight bajillion currencies for different types of things based on if it's F2P content or old subbed content, etc. I'm tired of the stupid little lock boxes EVERY f2p games has that cost real money to get a key to open or tons of in game money to buy the in game version of cash shop money to get the key, just for a tiny chance of something "good".
 
Can you hear the bitters?
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 Well I still stand by they should keep the P2P model and just make it where people who buy the game are not required to put in payment info, truth here is once that 30 days is up there are options to get more game time weather its  subbing,  buying game time card, or saving the in game money for CREDD.
 
 Sorry but I feel a cashshop in this game would really ruin it reguardless even if it is just cosmetic, they should leave that stuff for in game finds or new crafting types  to keep that stuff fresh.
 
 
 Also just to note  LoL sales champions if you do not buy them your stuck with the free roster of that moment time and what you play might not even be in it, so skins are pointless unless your getting them for a bought champion that is still sorta considered pay for advantage ( seeing that times will come when your champ is not on the free roster. )	
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{| class="blockquote"
Hmmm, someone has played Guild Wars 2 lol. Yeah, GW2 is the perfect example of B2P scams. But not all B2P/F2P games function like that. Just many.
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			tera is the 2nd top MMO on the market its f2p.	
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{| class="blockquote"
tera is the 2nd top MMO on the market its f2p.
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{| class="blockquote"
 Yea and it also got really boring too, there was a lot of good things about the game, but at least for me it went the typical korean grind route.
 
 Now before you chime in about wildstar is no differnt on grind, at least in my opion they made it fun to do plus there are tons of distractions around, tera sad to say not so much ( and I have a founders status on that game, because i played when it was sub based. )
 
 Also guild wars 2 had some nice ways to grind out the levels as well.
 
Personaly just because tera might rate no, 2 does not mean it is a best exsample route.
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{| class="blockquote"
what? we're not sayin turn the game into tera, its the 2nd top mmo for a reason it has a population and its f2p....
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http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wow-was-the-top-subscription-mmo-in-2013-star-wars/1100-6421191/
raptor has to be installed on your pc to be able to track it so those stats on those games are not plausible.	
----
			raptr is the most accurate way to judge that there is atm. Tera isn't even in the top 20.	
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			raptr only tracks the people that have the device installed and gamespot is a well known gaming.... Anyways about the stats i linked tera is a top mmo and is f2p and ws could be up there as well.
			
				
	Edited February 8, 2015 by BusterCasey	
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i have to agree tera is no way the 2nd top mmo Ihave others that can be there before tera 
 
http://www.pcgamesn.com/10-best-pc-mmos
 
here is the link to their top ten and tera isnt even on the list
 
a pay to play is top	
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http://www.gamespot.com/new-games/?sort=score&game_filter_type%5Bgenres%5D=35&game_filter_type%5Bplatform%5D=19&game_filter_type%5BminRating%5D=&game_filter_type%5BtimeFrame%5D=4&game_filter_type%5BstartDate%5D=01%2F01%2F2006&game_filter_type%5BendDate%5D=2%2F07%2F2015&game_filter_type%5Btheme%5D=&game_filter_type%5Bregion%5D=&___game_filter_type%5Bdevelopers%5D=&___game_filter_type%5Bpublishers%5D=&game_filter_type%5Bletter%5D=
 
 
That pirates of the burning sea though...."gamespot is a well known gaming"	
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			apparently top 10 "BEST" mmos, mean most populated?	
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{| class="blockquote"
i have to agree tera is no way the 2nd top mmo Ihave others that can be there before tera
 
http://www.pcgamesn.com/10-best-pc-mmos
 
here is the link to their top ten and tera isnt even on the list
 
a pay to play is top
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{| class="blockquote"
apparently top 10 "BEST" mmos, mean most populated?
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GW2 is a B2P casino scam where every single prestige item is locked behind a huge gold grind, encouraging you to buy ingame gold with real money from their cash shop, or the skins are gated behind RNG boxes sold on the cash shop.
 
Like, how can anyone prefer GW2 over WoW is beyond me when in WoW all you need to do for the items you want is raid for a month and you're in a full item and weaponset, the legendary items now don't even take longer than 2 months. GW2 is a total grindfest with awful rewards systems.
 
P2P MMO's always have better rewarding schemes in general, Wildstar was just the exception at launch and even now it only revamped rewards for dungeons/raids. Zones like Blighthaven/Defile still have garbage rewards as are most daily rep items (and they take more than a month of grinding the same dailies in and out to obtain).
 
It really upsets me that people are so selfish about wanting to keep their P2P model instead of going the ESO way. I'm glad you enjoy your p2p game, too bad your selfishness is gonna get it killed in less than 2 years because a sub model relies on a sizable playing population which this game will never have in the near future.
 
The game doesn't need to go full F2P. ESO's strategy is best. Core content is free, but give bonuses like increased elder gem weekly cap and extra renown/xp/rep gain to people who pay for the monthly sub. Then have in the cash store some vanity/convenience items. New content that comes out requires sub membership to enjoy or DLC purchase, but at least people can play up to GA/DS for free and whatever new content comes out next year can be paid for.	
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{| class="blockquote"
GW2 is a B2P casino scam where every single prestige item is locked behind a huge gold grind, encouraging you to buy ingame gold with real money from their cash shop, or the skins are gated behind RNG boxes sold on the cash shop.
 
Like, how can anyone prefer GW2 over WoW is beyond me when in WoW all you need to do for the items you want is raid for a month and you're in a full item and weaponset, the legendary items now don't even take longer than 2 months. GW2 is a total grindfest with awful rewards systems.
 
P2P MMO's always have better rewarding schemes in general, Wildstar was just the exception at launch and even now it only revamped rewards for dungeons/raids. Zones like Blighthaven/Defile still have garbage rewards as are most daily rep items (and they take more than a month of grinding the same dailies in and out to obtain).
 
It really upsets me that people are so selfish about wanting to keep their P2P model instead of going the ESO way. I'm glad you enjoy your p2p game, too bad your selfishness is gonna get it killed in less than 2 years because a sub model relies on a sizable playing population which this game will never have in the near future.
 
The game doesn't need to go full F2P. ESO's strategy is best. Core content is free, but give bonuses like increased elder gem weekly cap and extra renown/xp/rep gain to people who pay for the monthly sub. Then have in the cash store some vanity/convenience items. New content that comes out requires sub membership to enjoy or DLC purchase, but at least people can play up to GA/DS for free and whatever new content comes out next year can be paid for.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'll repeat, again, for the benefit of those that missed the post, we aren't being selfish about wanting to keep a P2P model.  I outlined a perfectly rational free to play option.  We don't want to be charged more than 15$ a month to access content which, at present, is being developed for 15$ a month.  As I said earlier....
 
 
 
I think most of us would be absolutely fine with that, because our game experience as subscribers and CREDD users does not change (save that CREDD prices may rise significantly).  Our problem isn't that people might play for free, but that the burden of supporting them will fall on the playerbase that has money.  If it doesn't, of course, the game will fail miserably in F2P, because F2P isn't actually "free to play".  Someone's paying, that money doesn't appear from nowhere, and if they only put things behind the pay wall that people can do without, they won't make enough to cover operating costs.
 
Of course, it goes on to see whether or not F2P players will play a game where nobody's picking up their tab and the money is being directly gouged from them while leaving us alone.  I don't see how it's in any way selfish on our part for thinking that 15$ a month should cover everything developed that month, since that's exactly how much it costs right now.  Having every single player that plays chip in an amount is a very fair system.  If you really want to add F2P, then the only fair way is to make sure the costs of their presence are self-contained.  It is not anyone else's responsibility to pay more money than we're paying right now in order to access anything, for no other reason than so that people can play for free relatively free from the inconvenience of actually supporting development.
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btw this game is free 2 play when you buy CREDD from another player so no need for the thread
 
all you have to do is farm for. few days a month to get the plat and buy the credd then use it and done	
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No, No, No.
 
There's no better way to destroy the overall quality of a game than having it "free 2 play". There's nothing more immersion breaking than in-game shops and premium currency, never ever please.	
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{| class="blockquote"
15 a month from 50-100k (at best) players isn't going to cover their development expenses much less the 100 million they invested in making the game.
 
There have been layoffs for a reason.
 
I know p2p is comfortable to you because you're subbed and currently playing the game with no issues. Of course you aren't one of those carbine employees, such as a raid designer or a UI designer who got the pink slip to cut costs. P2P only makes money with a large enough subscriberbase. F2P/B2P rake in far more cash in general.
 
P.S. Under ESO's model you wouldn't be paying for anything more unless you call putting a mount/minipet/costume on the cash shop denying you gameplay content.
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I mean Cred basically makes the game FTP already, now if we could get more people in with reduced box or no box price anymore that might do the trick. I don't even mind if you add a cash shop as long as any items in it are not raid quality or better then it's all fun and games. Carbine might make some more money, some people will still sub, some people will buy cred and some people will sell it.
 
If they decide to a do a full FTP I hope they do it like RIFT did. Also they should keep the CRED system active for people that want whatever benefits a sub has but don't want to pay a monthly fee. Then keep offering the subs with whatever bonus you get for being subscribed. 
 
Personally none of effects me in a negative way. More players, more fun, less waiting. 
 
Other games have also proven that FTP generates more money for them than a sub would. Look at Never Winter, Rift, Guild Wars, SWTOR. All games that might have died without an FTP model. Fact is people end up spending more then 15 a month if it's done right. It's kind of scary I mean look at a game like Farmville people pay all kinds of money for that and it's pure garbage. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think you completely understand.  The ONLY way that it "rakes in far more cash" without everyone paying in is if someone pays a lot more money.  There's a fundamental disconnect in what you're saying.  Saying, "You don't have to pay for anything you don't want" assumes that Carbine will put something we don't want behind the pay wall.  If they do, people won't buy it, and the game will make no money.  So, obviously, things will be behind the pay wall that, yes, we will want.  And if things are take-it-or-leave-it, more will end up behind that pay wall.
 
The game is currently profitable, having an uptick in population since the lows in population when they said they were profitable.  Drop 4 has been reasonably popular, and the game seems to be doing well enough.  There is no reason to change the payment model per se.
 
But if you want a free to play option and you think that's going to be the game's salvation, then that's fine.  I just gave you plenty of ways that can be done without disturbing those people who want to just put up with having to pay more money somewhere.  Right now, even the little cosmetic things are available to everyone who plays, because we've all paid for it.  Everyone has equal access to everything if they play.  There is no way that the game goes F2P without wasting more development hours behind things that cost more money than 15 dollars a month.  If the game goes F2P, then Wildstar may well get more players (how many is debatable) but they are no longer paid per-player they have the way they are, they are only paid for the things that are bought.  That's where the development money will go.  A few people buying cosmetic items does not support development of a game, that's why F2P games tend to slide towards P2W and put in huge incentives to spend more money than we're all spending right now.
 
It's not a silver bullet, it's going to give us a fundamentally worse game as players.  There's no way around it, unless that F2P option is simply an addition and that itself is gated.  As long as our subscribed experience doesn't change and being subscribed (or paid in with CREDD) gives us all the same deal and the onus of having to pay more or access less content rests entirely on the free-to-play population, it's not an issue for me.  I have a huge issue with the game being made completely free for everyone, then someone like me will have content I want put behind a wall that I might have to pay far more than 15 dollars a month to access.  I really don't feel it's fair or necessary to give someone like me, who is already paying what has been deemed by NCSoft to be my share, the burden of either accepting less game or paying more money.
 
Slap some ad banners on the free players, make things that they can't access, nerf them and make them pay for gameplay upgrades, make the free players be the only ones to suffer.  If 15$ is paying for my piece of development and maintenance now, there's no reason to expect it wouldn't be a perfectly acceptable sum to pay for the entirety of monthly content under any payment model.  If you really think letting players in for free and gouging them at a cash shop will generate all the money NCSoft needs, then gouge the free players.  They're the ones that aren't paying into development themselves.  It shouldn't be anyone's responsibility to pay more than 15$ a month for anything just so they can play without contributing.
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{| class="blockquote"
F2P models generate more money because some of us are not so stingy that the thought of spending every other month something extra for a nice cosmetic feature isn't going to ruin us financially. Under ESO Plus design you do not pay for any gameplay content if you are subbed, the only things on a cash shop are vanity items and if you are subbed you gain access to all new content anyways and are even granted a monthly allowance of cash shop credit to get those items without even having to dish extra. All they have on that store is mounts and minipets with a few costumes.
 
Wildstar is also not profitable. Please stop lying. 50-100k players is not going to generate enough revenue to overcome the investment and you know, investors want their returns not in the next decade, but far sooner. Drop 4 is not popular enough that we're suddenly at more than 2 populated servers for each region. It's still one pve server for US and one for EU. That's a pitiful population.
 
There's also the simple psychological feature most of this gaming generation has where people will simply not want to pay a sub to play a game they haven't tried at endgame. And I don't blame them for not wanting to dish 30-40 bucks for the box on top of about a month or two of sub money just to level and find out they're not fond of the endgame. That's why people like F2P, because they can see the game mostly for what it is from the getgo without any upfront investment, and if they do end up liking the game they can spend any money they wish supporting it.
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{| class="blockquote"
No, free to play doesn't generate more revenue. Otherwise, it would have made sense for Blizzard to switch years ago, no? THINK OF THE FORTUNES THEY'RE LOSING BY NOT GIVING THEIR GAME AWAY.
 
Not.
 
And WildStar isn't profitable? I missed that press release. No, seriously... maybe I missed it. 
 
The right thing to do is for Carbine to stay the course, keep the sub, and make improvements to the game for players that like it, and will like it if they come. The biggest mistake they could do for this game is cast a wide net to catch whatever dead or smelly fish might end up in it. 
 
There's a business model to be had in quality vs. quantity.
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{| class="blockquote"
Will you please just stop, and take a look at the ESO Plus B2P proposal before this conversation goes any further?
 
Because you keep repeating that content will be put behind a paywall. If you call the occassional costume/mount being put on a cash shop pay-gated content, then too bad other P2P MMO's already do it.
 
F2P models generate more money because some of us are not so stingy that the thought of spending every other month something extra for a nice cosmetic feature isn't going to ruin us financially. Under ESO Plus design you do not pay for any gameplay content if you are subbed, the only things on a cash shop are vanity items and if you are subbed you gain access to all new content anyways and are even granted a monthly allowance of cash shop credit to get those items without even having to dish extra. All they have on that store is mounts and minipets with a few costumes.
 
Wildstar is also not profitable. Please stop lying. 50-100k players is not going to generate enough revenue to overcome the investment and you know, investors want their returns not in the next decade, but far sooner. Drop 4 is not popular enough that we're suddenly at more than 2 populated servers for each region. It's still one pve server for US and one for EU. That's a pitiful population.
 
There's also the simple psychological feature most of this gaming generation has where people will simply not want to pay a sub to play a game they haven't tried at endgame. And I don't blame them for not wanting to dish 30-40 bucks for the box on top of about a month or two of sub money just to level and find out they're not fond of the endgame. That's why people like F2P, because they can see the game mostly for what it is from the getgo without any upfront investment, and if they do end up liking the game they can spend any money they wish supporting it.
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{| class="blockquote"
Will you please just stop, and take a look at the ESO Plus B2P proposal before this conversation goes any further?
 
Because you keep repeating that content will be put behind a paywall. If you call the occassional costume/mount being put on a cash shop pay-gated content, then too bad other P2P MMO's already do it.
 
F2P models generate more money because some of us are not so stingy that the thought of spending every other month something extra for a nice cosmetic feature isn't going to ruin us financially. Under ESO Plus design you do not pay for any gameplay content if you are subbed, the only things on a cash shop are vanity items and if you are subbed you gain access to all new content anyways and are even granted a monthly allowance of cash shop credit to get those items without even having to dish extra. All they have on that store is mounts and minipets with a few costumes.
 
Wildstar is also not profitable. Please stop lying. 50-100k players is not going to generate enough revenue to overcome the investment and you know, investors want their returns not in the next decade, but far sooner. Drop 4 is not popular enough that we're suddenly at more than 2 populated servers for each region. It's still one pve server for US and one for EU. That's a pitiful population.
 
There's also the simple psychological feature most of this gaming generation has where people will simply not want to pay a sub to play a game they haven't tried at endgame. And I don't blame them for not wanting to dish 30-40 bucks for the box on top of about a month or two of sub money just to level and find out they're not fond of the endgame. That's why people like F2P, because they can see the game mostly for what it is from the getgo without any upfront investment, and if they do end up liking the game they can spend any money they wish supporting it.
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why is this discussing conti uing i thing there isnt anything left of the dead horse!!!
 
there are visably more players ive seen them on lower lvls so the population is on an upswing, how much dunno
im wanting to wait and see
 
as for ESo they stated 1.6 will be the last BIG. update and they WILL be putting DLC behind a paywall so stop lying yourself. yes a sub fee still gets it all so they are STILL hoping anf want subscribers so it really isnt F2P when you have a P2P option is it.
 
we should just see how it goes from here sinec drop 4 is been a big plus to the game and relax!!!	
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{| class="blockquote"
btw this game is free 2 play when you buy CREDD from another player so no need for the thread
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Having said the above, i would love for the game to go f2p.  BUT i know the possible downsides of what could happen to the game.  The quality of the community usually ends up taking a huge nosedive.  But also, there is not a standard f2p model out there that companies follow.  Look at games like Marvel Heroes, LOTRO, STO, and SWTOR.  Some of them handled it well, others handled it poorly.  Take a look at WS and ask yourself what would they have to monetize in order for f2p to work here.
 
-hotbars? do you want it to be like SWTOR where you only get 1-2 hotbars in a game that requires 4-5 to play effectively? the equivalent of that in WS is for them to cut out LAS buttons by half.
 
-dungeon/instance access? SWTOR i believe sells limited access passes that allow f2p players to get into dungeons and pvp matches.
 
-costumes? armor skin quality will probably go way down after an f2p switch. Do you want to pay real money to get those "cool" looking costumes? do you want to pay even more money to be able to display those costumes on your toon? SWTOR f2p players had their helm on by default and to hide it you had to pay a fee.  And let me tell you...some of their helm designs are hideous!
 
-content? they may choose to start selling new released content as payable DLC which is what i think LOTRO did back in the day.  OR the quality of content could go way way down. Take a look at Star Trek Online and look at their "dungeons".  Their end game content is the same crap they've been doing for the last 4 years! they've barely added anything new.  They just added a level cap raise and all the old content got retuned for the new level cap.  With WoW the old content got forgotten and stayed at the old level cap and they introduced new dungeons. With the last few expacs WoW *has* been recycling some old content.  But they dont recycle it all.  I havent been to SWTOR in a long time either, and i never did dungeons there anyways.  But didnt they do the same thing too? level cap got raised and a good chunk of the dungeons and raids got retuned for the new level cap and they added a few new ones.	
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			just like all the other threads before this, the majority of at least the forums lurking community is a no on this one.	
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Meh. Already explained why Free To Play or Reborn is the only real option for massive population spikes months ago. No one coulds give me an answer back then and they can't now:
 
"What else can Carbine do to generate as much interest as F2P or Reborn?"
 
MMORPG market you are in a constant war for "Interest". Right now Wildstar is losing that battle. Huge patch just drop and Free to play and Population Threads are already back. You guys need to wake up. Carbine needs to do what  makes sense at this point. The change is neccessary.
 
Are you playing WildStar because you love it or for the payment model? A great game can stay a great game even if the payment model changes. If you love the game you should support it regardless of the P{ayment model as long as you enjoy it (Hi Blizz). I buy Street Fighter Updates because I love Street Fighter. I spend money in Rift because I enjoy the game and realize that it does not run on my love. It runs on money. If the model changes commit to  a 15 a month budget. Maybe you don't have that 15 for some odd reason. Guess what? You can still play that game you "love" while navigating the rocky waters IRL.
 
You guys need to let the game do what it needs to do to survive. I reference Rift a lot because it's not even supposed to be alive. Look at how many MMORPGs have died since Rift. They even tried to take on the behemoth head on lol. Rift is still here and still a great MMORPG(in my opinion, let me repeat that IN MY OPINION!) and still growing. The reason it's survived is they did everything exactly when they needed too. They Got LFD in when they needed to. They shed servers when they needed to(They had to reopen a few when the game went F2P and they are still up). They went F2P ect. When they needed to. Not when they had to.
 
Carbine this is coming from your buddy Balf, who from the very beggining only wanted what was best for the game(popular opinions of popular forum posters be damned): STOP FENCE-SITTING AND PULL THE DAMN TRIGGER.	
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			n/m 10char	
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How about no.
This game ends up F2P they're going to monitize it in ways that I fear that they're going to remove alot of the little things that make me really love this game.	
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One thing I would like to see is Wildstar hitting some of the shows and hyping this game like they did before launch. If they could make a great then and now presentation it could be the trick to get people back in.
 
Some of what this game has going against now is that for a new player to catch up there is a tone of work to do unlock amps abilities and Attunement. They have made it easier to get AMP and Ability points but attunement still puts players behind the curve. With more folk play maybe attunement should be dropped down to completing all 4 dungeons and call it a day. Rep grind and gates to content keep people from getting involved in the best part of this game. I will always maintain that putting arbitrary gates into content is a bad idea. Look how many people bailed when attunement had silvers, and how many came back(not many).	
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If I take the original intent of the thread:
 
{| class="blockquote"
So guys lets all sign this thread so we can revive the game. thanks!  :rolleyes:
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			I'm not convinced free to play is the solution, but I will say this: I busted out a trial key to see whether or not coming back would be worth my while. Tons of game improvements, great interface, fun gameplay, good performance, but I'm basically playing a single player game. There's no one around. My queues don't pop. Ever. Even at 50, I see people saying that PvP queues pop maybe 5 times a night on the busiest nights. I can't justify paying per month to play a single player game.	
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One thing I would like to see is Wildstar hitting some of the shows and hyping this game like they did before launch. If they could make a great then and now presentation it could be the trick to get people back in.
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It wasn't the dungeons. It was the awful daily rep grinds, having to do the same dull quests everyday for over a month to unlock character progression rewards will burn you out on the game real quick.
 
If they made it like FFXIV's daily roulette where you could choose a rep to get whenever you do group content/dungeons it would help break the monotony. WoW has that, allowing you to choose your rep reward when you finish the dungeon.	
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The only party that profits from FTP is the publisher cause he will make money with ingame shop mechanics.
The quality of the game for the players will go down since the developers have to invest time in creating less content but more cash flow mechanics for the publishers.
Carbine does not have a huge Staff anyway, so this would mean even less content that they can already do.
 
Wildstar is already FTP if you are willing to invest a few hours of gametime into farming credds and to be honest i dont wonna play with bad ppl (gear not runed etc) that dont invest time in the game anyway.	
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It wasn't the dungeons. It was the awful daily rep grinds, having to do the same dull quests everyday for over a month to unlock character progression rewards will burn you out on the game real quick.
 
If they made it like FFXIV's daily roulette where you could choose a rep to get whenever you do group content/dungeons it would help break the monotony. WoW has that, allowing you to choose your rep reward when you finish the dungeon.
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{| class="blockquote"
It wasn't the dungeons. It was the awful daily rep grinds, having to do the same dull quests everyday for over a month to unlock character progression rewards will burn you out on the game real quick.
 
If they made it like FFXIV's daily roulette where you could choose a rep to get whenever you do group content/dungeons it would help break the monotony. WoW has that, allowing you to choose your rep reward when you finish the dungeon.
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Well i wasnt about to list every single thing that i found wrong, i just picked one and that happened to be dungeons.  But that also might just be because back when i first started playing i didnt know what the difference was between adventures, dungeons and shiphands.
 
But i did also noticed the same thing about daily zones early on and i felt that maybe they sprung those on us too early. But thats only cause in other games they didnt release daily zones until later when the game had already been out a while.  For me i guess its also like a double whammy cause they were daily zones AND daily zones that took place in recycled areas.  Which is actually good for the devs because it saves time and they dont have to create a new area and they just move a few npcs and 3d assets around.  I guess i wouldnt have minded the daily zones too much if it knocked my socks off some how.  Instead it was just go here do this, go there do that. They need to add some vehicle type stuff or something. If you played WoW during TBC do you remember their first set of dailies? Skyguard dailies, Shartuul event and stuff like that.  Then they added the Sunwell dailies with the bombing runs and the HOLY CRAP IS THAT BRUTALLUS WHAT THE HELL IS THAT!!! and then you do some more stuff that feels objective oriented.  Thats the kind of stuff i think they should add to the daily zones.  Things that make you feel like you are working towards a bigger objective. Vehicle type stuff which they had in Whitevale on Dom side where you tear gas the prison or in Farside-moon where you chase the pirate in a ship and you shoot at him (though their vehicle stuff could use some polish) or a main event in the daily zone like a big ole boss fight that isnt terribly difficult but is meant to get people together to fight him and have some fun and get some loot.
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1. Make a multiclass system like FFXIV
2. Optimize the game
3. Fix PvP
4. Fix Queue times & make a LFG tool able to queue for more than one option (a mix of GW2 & WoW tool)
5. Add guild housing, pets/companions, fishing
 
WS needs either to go B2P (like GW2) or make the above happen and ppl will get back in a minute. Its up to Carbine :)	
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After logging in this morning and seeing how there was no CREDD for sale for a brief period, I am now on board with either B2P or FTP, to those saying this game is essentially B2P thanks to CREDD, this morning there was no CREDD for sale, is that still B2P?
 
/signed	
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NCSOFT hasn't released Q4 report for 2014 yet, should be out by Feb 13th/14th if their last few reports dates of release are any indication. In the Q3 report already tossed around multiple times in previous threads it was shown Wildstar took a huge hit in sales money from Q2 when it released to Q3. Their net income and operating profit you quoted was as a company whole, not how WS is performing and your WS numbers are not even on the Q3 report at all, do a search for 13573 and it doesnt even exist on the Q3 report at all. But leave it to a white knight troll to throw out false info to prove their game is "doing super duper okay".
 
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
 
Q2 sales of WS = 28,048 KRW in MN
Q3 sales of WS = 16,007 KRW in MN
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			from what i understand the management is driving the game down and a f2p or b2p wont help that if they dont fix management	
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Q4 just dropped, about when I thought it would.
 
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx
 
Q2 sales of WS = 28,048 KRW in MN
Q3 sales of WS = 16,007 KRW in MN
Q4 sales of WS = 5,491 KRW in MN (newly posted today on the Q4 report)
 
Numbers don't lie. I'll bet all the 150pp left on my account that WS goes B2P before the end of 2015.
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