97651-update-notes-7162014-page-2

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All you people complaining could at least give something constructive back. Come up with an idea or at least build on something someone else has posted. I personally like this idea and think this would be a step in the right direction.
 
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I suggest:
Every time a blue drops on your final rolls at end of adventure, it doubles the % to get an epic for next one. (assuming ~10% base chance, can alter depending on real chance if you like, or just stick with 10%)
 
Result:
By the time you get to fourth drop (ie. gold runs after 3 blues already), it's ~80% to be an Epic. Silver runs still have a ~50% overall chance, but it drastically reduces the chances of getting no epics on a gold run (I calc it at 8.6% getting 4 blues, based on 10% base chance), which just frustrates your playerbase and ultimately causes people to ragequit.
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The actual problem they just created is solved by giving the ones who didn't need the change what they had before the change. Everybody wins, nothing removed.
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Restore guaranteed epic on gold. Leave the rest of the changes intact.
 
It's THAT easy.	
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It's almost like they modelled it to try and make the total number of superb quality loots dropped equal to it is now.. by delving it out to the silver/bronze instead of it all going to gold runs. But I think they've nerfed it overall too. Given you can only fill a few slots with purples from adventures anyway (for each spec), and that good itemized crafted gear can almost equal them, there's really not a big issue leaving them on a higher chance. Nerfing their drop rates so much just defies logic. I can't understand why they would willingly decide this was a good thing.
 
They should be aiming for:
Gold: ~100% drop rate (roughly)
Silver: ~50ish% drop rate
Bronze: ~20-25% drop rate
 
That would encourage people to get better at the game, but also allow people to farm for the last of them when appropriately geared, and stop people dropping group instantly when gold fails. Win:Win for all.
 
 
In the most recent wow xpac (SoO) they decided to make heroic dungeons (equiv sorta difficulty) drop purples on a super rare chance on the final boss. People tried farming them for a little while, then just gave up. It simply wasn't worth the time/effort. Everyone was a lot better off just waiting for them to make the next content tier and gear up in a different manner.
 
Adventures in it's current implementation is pretty much this exact phenomenon. They're a rare drop that just simply isn't worth trying to farm for. Run adventures to get blues then GTFO and never go back. Completely not worth the effort but for a bit of EP/Gold.	
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Restore guaranteed epic on gold. Leave the rest of the changes intact.
 
It's THAT easy.
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Only two fixes were required here:
 
Make the "Deserter" debuff last 1-2 hours.  This makes it so that finishing is almost always faster, and more rewarding, than dropping the group (unless the group was a total fail for some reason).​	Make final boss roll ONLY on the Epic loot table (1 roll, regardless of Bronze/Silver/Gold, no roll for no medal).  All the "bonus" Medal rolls use the new system (which still provides a chance at more Epics if you get lucky, keeping some incentive to get higher-ranked medals).
Honestly, they could have probably kept the old system with no changes if they just implemented #1.
 
There also needs to be some fix to address the problem that 3-4 members of a guild/pre-made can vote kick someone 95% through a run just to avoid sharing the loot with the non-member.  This has happened to me twice now, and it is insanely frustrating.  Not sure what the answer to this problem is, but maybe make it impossible to vote kick someone after you are more than 50% of the way through the instance (unless they are AFK).
 
I'm not going to threaten to quit over this.  I DID quit over this.  I've got about 3 weeks left in my current subscription.  If this isn't resolved before then, I'll just let it run out and move on to another game.  I don't mind working for loot, but as many previous posts have pointed out, having everything up to a low chance RNG (and given the rune system, WAY too many RNG rolls for every drop, i.e., specific item you are praying for, # of rune slots, actual rune slots) to make progress.
 
Maybe adopt a system like WoW had, where you earn some sort of currency for each run (say, 5 for Gold, 3 for Silver, 1 for Bronze), such that you could buy any specific item (or equivalent) from an instance of a vendor located outside the instance (or in the capital).  Sort of like the Elder Gem vendor.  Or, use the "bad luck protection" system from other games, such that if no one in the group needs the item (either because they already have it, or it is simply unusable), it won't drop (at least for the 1 "guaranteed" Epic drop).	
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The door is right there
 
<-----
 
don't just talk the talk, man up and walk the walk, ya?
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It's good you upped the....drop rates on amp/ability expanders but...it's still going to be faster to get it from the relic vendor which I had thought was a 'last resort'.
 
I personally think it's dumb to hold players hostage with this system, no MMO I have played other than greedy Korean grinders does this.
 
Let gear be a factor if you want but last thing I desire is to be inferior in PvP or PvE b/c I am either not lucky on drops or want to buy gold from third party sellers in order to afford them!
 
People who have all 17 are literally 10+ levels better than those that don't have them...this is no small difference; it's a massive one.
 
Also like to point out that REAL LIFE MONEY can be used to purchase these; this is effectively pay to win. Pay to win in a SUB based game I might add, wth?
 
Please revise this baloney extra amp/ability point system after lvl cap or simply just get rid of it all together. Thanks....	
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Restore guaranteed epic on gold. Leave the rest of the changes intact.
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			Awesome, now the game can be even more grindy hardcore!	
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BE AWARE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carabine is doing damage control they are taking the time to LOCK all threats related to the backslash for the new loot system,
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That would encourage people to get better at the game
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Also, regarding 'Cupcake', this:
 
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Just like you said, audience matters. Context also matters. We've used cupcake as a friendly term for over a year now. It's no one's problem except your own if you bring outside standards into the community and try to apply them. 
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			If you are honestly going to get upset by their use of the term cupcake, then the descriptive fits you better than most...  cupcake.	
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This has a monumental history of not working.
 
Practice ground - "This would encourage people to get better at the game"
 
The Dungeon Journal - "This would encourage people to get better at the game"
 
LFR - "This would encourage people to get better at the game"
 
All this and many other examples are just code for people who want an easy path to epics, they don't want to get better at the game, there are already tons of things in game that provide that training.
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Whining that randomly throwing 5 people together results in getting people with different goals, is one of the more asinine complaints I've seen....and again comes back to wanting guaranteed success in a random pug situation.  No.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ BE AWARE~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carabine is doing damage control they are taking the time to LOCK all threats related to the backslash for the new loot system, they are pretty much killing any topic related to this issue, what a shame Carabine you should feel a shame of silence people just because they are saying there are to many threats about it, this is message they are Posting > notice how they don't tell you where to keep the discussion going... that just wrong...
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			Works for dungeons, terrible for adventures.	
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			So those of us that successfully get golds every time are being punished with blues and decor and rarely ever a purple now.	
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This system blows chunks.  Get gold to roll three times and have zero epics.
 
Screw this.  I'm not going to quit but you took a major incentive for me to hang around.  You went from trying to prevent people quitting to making people not want to play them at all.  I enjoy doing adventures but I expect there to be a nice reward for getting gold.  
 
Someone at Carbine is smoking crack hard.  I'd rather deal with the quits than this system.  Wow.	
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Woohoo,..why would anyone wanna make an MMO,..?  lol
 
anyways,..
 
from memory,..most dungeons in MMO's I've played,..I don't recall Not being subject to RNG,...hoping for something cool to drop for my class. TSw drops Bullion used to barter, which Is a set rate.
 
 
 
that said,...I'll toss in an idea,.instead of a flame.
 
Instead of dropping the Epic.   Keep your rng chances,..but drop  Cupcake tokens or something that we barter for our Epics.  
 
Say your Epic costs 100 CupCakes.  ( numbers are pure example only)
 
bronze drops 10-20 cupcakes
silver drops 20-40
Gold drops 40-60
 
still random,..but still guaranteed to push you closer to getting it.
 
/ducks	
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Works for dungeons, terrible for adventures.
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Works for dungeons, terrible for adventures.
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Nothing about this is working.  This is punishing good players in an effort to cater to the bads.  This is precisely what they promised not to do.  Now that we know they lied and plan to be just like every mmo, its time to speak with our wallets and cancel our subscriptions.
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Say your Epic costs 100 CupCakes. 
bronze drops 10-20 cupcakes
silver drops 20-40
Gold drops 40-60
 
still random,..but still guaranteed to push you closer to getting it.
 
/ducks
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I remember when Frost would simply say "NO" for nerfing content.  I guess it was nerfed..  I hate to say it but this is coming really close to WoW.  Lets make sure everyone is happy and not just the good players.
 
Wildstar was supposed to be a harder game for a group of players.  What the hell...
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			Yes!! Been waiting for the increase in dungeon/adventure rewards, now I can finally do them :)	
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Nothing about this is working.  This is punishing good players in an effort to cater to the bads.  This is precisely what they promised not to do.  Now that we know they lied and plan to be just like every mmo, its time to speak with our wallets and cancel our subscriptions.
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I've always (ALWAYS) been a fan of this sort of thing. It takes the 'excitement' out of it a bit, but at least you get rewarded for your efforts.
Others are not so keen though. Some people feel it breaks the immersion a little bit? Others feel that it railroads your progression too much ie. "it will take exactly X many boss kills to gear up with all the loots" and makes people feel like they're just doing a giant "kill X bosses" quest
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The more I read and think about this, the more I support this change.
 
It makes adventures less of a place for farming for pre-raid gear and more of a thing you do as a fresh 50 before you hit dungeons.
 
It certainly wasn't a nerf.	
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People were dropping out of dungeons if they didn't get gold. And this was discussed on the forum and a lot of people were for this plan when it was being discussed.
 
And they didn't lie about anything. This doesn't make dungeons any easier. You want gold you're still going to work for it.
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Just to be clear, all threads on the topic aren't being locked. Just the new ones. This is because we already have two, quite lengthy, threads on the topic going on. The idea is not to disappear the dissent, but to keep the discussion in one (or in this case, two) places so that it's easier for everyone to read and participate in the discussion. 
 
Current threads: 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/90597-at-first-i-liked-the-upcoming-dungeonadventure-loot-change/
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/86702-upcoming-changes-to-gold-medal-rewards-from-dungeons-and-adventures/
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What people were for about this was allowing silver and bronze a chance at getting purples..People were not okay with losing there 100% drop for getting gold.. 
People where asking many times what they ment by the changes and if that meant losing 100% drop rate on the epic.. And people also said that it would deter them from not only vote disbanding, but running it all together after attuning.
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Looks like someone didn't get the memo.  Topic 97725 "Medal Changes Yay" doesn't exist anymore.
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can we get a we heard enough change are on the way be patient ...
 
as it is now , 99.9% of the community is unsatisfied  by the change, so try and limit the crisis	
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Restore guaranteed epic on gold. Leave the rest of the changes intact.
 
It's THAT easy.
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			Doesn't mean you nerf drop rates from 100% to ~20% for gold adventures. That's ridiculous. Somewhere between 50 and 100% might be acceptable if they don't want it at 100% anymore, but really.. ~20%? That's absurd.	
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They made it clear before the patch. Bronze you have a small chance of getting epic. Silver you have a better chance of getting epic. Gold you have the best chance of getting an epic.
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Yes but previously you could at least count on SEEING an epic if you know you got gold. Now you have to pray for both 1) an epic to drop in the first place (even if you got gold) and 2) for that epic to be the one you need.
 
So instead of making Bronze/Silver worth staying for, they made Gold crap too.
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Locking people out of rewards if they happen to do well is one of the more asinine 'solutions' I've seen yet.
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They made it clear before the patch. Bronze you have a small chance of getting epic. Silver you have a better chance of getting epic. Gold you have the best chance of getting an epic.
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Yes but previously you could at least count on SEEING an epic if you know you got gold. Now you have to pray for both 1) an epic to drop in the first place (even if you got gold) and 2) for that epic to be the one you need.
 
So instead of making Bronze/Silver worth staying for, they made Gold crap too.
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How doesn't it?
 
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			The big issue is adventure epics are nowhere near 20% chance on gold..  It's more around 8% chance..	
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·         The existing gold medal rewards are being removed from gold medal completion.
o   These rewards will instead drop off the final bosses or encounters for dungeons and adventures.
o   The table from which this loot drops has a chance to be selected and is granted in addition to that bosses regular loot.
 
 
I am sorry but from reading this I do not see it saying that your only have a CHANCE at getting superb quality items from running gold...
 
What I get from this is you wont get epic loot from getting gold BUT instead your Superb item will drop at the end no matter what from killing the end boss and that it will be added to the list of loot already added on the boss..
 
My point is their description was very vague on how the loot was going to be dropped...
 
And Just because you understood it does not mean others did.	
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Do you know what the original complaint was?
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You guys in Carbine just messed up. Maybe you reduced the number of "Gold or bust" groups, but sadly you did it by cutting down the amount of running groups. Now nobody wants to run veteran adventures. This is because you guys drastically reduced the chances of epic drops at the end of runs.
 
I mean assuming the chance for every time to drop  is the same, which most likely is not. You made it so if a person is looking for a particular item, and the drop chance was already bad enough, now its even worse.
 
For example, I've been running Vet WotW, trying to get the tank claws, which used to drop in a 1/13 chance if I got gold. Now even on gold they are dropping at 1/51, less than 2 percent.... It doesn't matter if we get 4 drops, the loot tables are still waaay too populated for me to actually want to go through the effort of such a minuscule chance to get the item I need, therefore I don't want to try anymore....
 
This change far from improving the experience, just made it more sour, and that's not only for me, but for my group, maybe for a lot more people considering the longer queue times I've seen. So we will have less "gold or bust" groups, but by making people not wanting to run anymore, that's just messed up...	
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			My personal suggestion on this would be to make it so the original gold drops are moved to the last boss table. That makes it so at the very least everyone will try and complete the dungeon for the rewards that they would get on gold. Then keep the current medal system where you get additional instance rolls with chances of epics.	
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The original complain was "waaaah we want epics without having to be any good at the encounters" thinly veiled as "Too many people are quitting when they get matched up with mouthbreathers that can't find their own ass with both hands.  We need more incentive to finish adventures even if we aren't skilled enough to get gold."
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			Good lord the QQ is overwhelming in this thread. 	
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Punishing players just for the sake of punishing is in no way something good.
 
Pugs are fine with the whole medal system, some groups will perform better than others, that's simply natural. Why should they punish the ones that actually work? Lethality has a good point though, groups that don't use the group finder should get a better reward, but to have that there is no need to remove anything from anyone, in fact, it seems to me that that's a whole different issue.
 
The actual problem they just created is solved by giving the ones who didn't need the change what they had before the change. Everybody wins, nothing removed. Inclusive solutions will always be better than exclusive solutions.
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My personal suggestion on this would be to make it so the original gold drops are moved to the last boss table. That makes it so at the very least everyone will try and complete the dungeon for the rewards that they would get on gold. Then keep the current medal system where you get additional instance rolls with chances of epics.
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Good lord the QQ is overwhelming in this thread. 
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I disagree.
You can't just give gold a 100% drop chance, and bronze/silver a 1-5% chance. All that does is give 'free epics' to nubs, without even slightly denting the number of "gold or bust" people queuing.
 
It has to be in the order of 100% gold, 50% silver, 25% bronze (or something similar). So that "gold or bust" people don't disband half way through (still got a 50% shot), but everyone doing it wants to push to gold if they are able to.	
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To quote the patch notes, if working as written: "All excellent-quality and superb-quality items that were previously only available on the Silver and Gold Medals are now available from the final boss." Question is the overall size of the loot table. 20 total items? 40?
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For example, I've been running Vet WotW, trying to get the tank claws, which used to drop in a 1/13 chance if I got gold. Now even on gold they are dropping at 1/51, less than 2 percent.... It doesn't matter if we get 4 drops, the loot tables are still waaay too populated for me to actually want to go through the effort of such a minuscule chance to get the item I need, therefore I don't want to try anymore....
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Of course it is, as a general rule people greatly dislike being lied to.
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			We've been told by Frost and Carbine for the last 3 years that this would be a game that would not punish skilled players in an effort to cater to casuals and bads.  Today that was proven to be a lie.  I'm not surprised that fanboys would try to twist it to be other than that, but thats what happened here.  Mark the date, today was the beginning of the end of Wildstar.	
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There are a few things i would like to point out. The change allowing more loot to drop with a chance at epics for bronze silver runs is a good thing. However gold should ALWAYS be a guaranteed epic. People do not enjoy running something 100+ times to get one item they want. For example it took me 41 gold runs of crimelords to get the pistols (yup i counted). Under this new system it wouldve been even worse. As a whole anyways I dont like the adventures they are not challenging they are frustrating especiallly malgrave trail. I want to run dungeons, not spend 200 hours running the same 4 adventures.
 
ALSO punishing well skilled players and premade guild groups who could get gold every run before is a terrible idea. I highly doubt many people are going to stick around if this is left in the game, honestly they need to HOTFIX this I dont even have a desire to play adventures in the current state I have every blue i could  ever want. 
Im just trying to be honest here gearing already takes 100s of hours we dont need it to take even longer. Ive got about 15 days left on this subscription and in complete honesty Im not going to by another credd if epics are guaranteed on gold runs for both adventures and dungeons	
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Do you know what the original complaint was?
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We've been told by Frost and Carbine for the last 3 years that this would be a game that would not punish skilled players in an effort to cater to casuals and bads.  Today that was proven to be a lie.  I'm not surprised that fanboys would try to twist it to be other than that, but thats what happened here.  Mark the date, today was the beginning of the end of Wildstar.
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But they didn't. You still get rewarded for doing better. You get to roll an extra die that bronze/silver players don't get to reroll.
 
The problem before was group kept going for gold would disband when it was out of reach. None of the new players could learn if they couldn't even complete it.
 
In honesty, I preferred the previous one, but this one does not punish the good players and will help prevent PUGs dropping.
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But they didn't. You still get rewarded for doing better. You get to roll an extra die that bronze/silver players don't get to reroll.
 
The problem before was group kept going for gold would disband when it was out of reach. None of the new players could learn if they couldn't even complete it.
 
In honesty, I preferred the previous one, but this one does not punish the good players and will help prevent PUGs dropping.
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Maybe I should just spec towards dps since support power tanks not getting any love. Very frustrating...
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Yesterday I was getting golds every time, and an epic every time.
 
Today I am getting golds every time, and almost no epics at all.  This change was made in order to justify them giving people who haven't earned epics a chance to get them.
 
Yes, the good players are being punished.  If you can't see this you're delusional.
 
Either way, I've cancelled my sub, most of my friends have cancelled theirs, and I imagine that a pretty hefty portion of the good players that were getting golds and just got the rug pulled out from under them are cancelling theirs as well.  Hope the casuals are happy and this works out for Carbine, but it seems more likely they just committed suicide by going back on their core promise.	
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Dont really know where to write this probably suited in the bug forum but as this happened after last updates I guess its could fit here still.
 
As I wrote here before I have experienced strange bugs since latest updates text disappearing cant read text or see mission progress i mission UI.
 
But after looking around ingame this seems only to be a problem Blighthaven zone.
 
As I only seen 1 single person here report any similar problem I dont know if the rest of you player is experience it.
 
I have not seen any Carbine people comment anything ethier so dont know if its a content problem,our problem on my end?
 
I have tested my graphic drivers reverting back and forth between old and new nothing,force started and turned off addons nothing.
 
Repaired Game etc etc
 
As Blighthaven is one of the few zones I still have quests left beside the daily 50 zones. I really want to continue adventure there but its hard 
when on cant see story or quest progression :(
 
I know Iam posting the same stuff over and over but as said seen none comment it if its a commen issue or just me so dont know what do at the moment?	
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The original complain was "waaaah we want epics without having to be any good at the encounters" thinly veiled as "Too many people are quitting when they get matched up with mouthbreathers that can't find their own ass with both hands.  We need more incentive to finish adventures even if we aren't skilled enough to get gold."
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OOOOOOOO we get an extra roll on a blue item that we can get 2 gold for, or we can salvage.  Seriously?  Do you even play this game?  You realize epics were 100% droprate before this nerf, and they are going to be almost never dropping now, right?  The loot tables for adventures are fairly large, and the epic loot ratio isn't very big.
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Hope the casuals are happy and this works out for Carbine, but it seems more likely they just committed suicide by going back on their core promise.
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And I do play this game, I just stick with PvP. PvE is far to casual for my elitist blood.
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			Least you guys could do is award a guaranteed Epic for a Silver run and 2 Guaranteed Epics for Gold...or Maybe even just 1 Guaranteed Epic for Gold, no guarantee for Silver.Seriously now.	
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I see, so you actually aren't affected by this at all and have very little idea what you're talking about, you're just trying to engage in a little forum pvp by trolling people.  Your posts on the subject make a lot more sense now.
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Yeah I know, it's no longer 100% on gold. That's not a nerf, it's now harder to get purple.
And I do play this game, I just stick with PvP. PvE is far to casual for my elitist blood.
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So you are saying that a Gold run on Vet Dungeons does not deserve an epic drop 100% of the time?  Most people struggle to even get silver in dungeons, otherwise the entire server would be fully attuned by now.  Should be no different for adventures, because people use those as stepping stones for dungeons.  I enjoy PvP as much as the next person (thus I am on a PvP server).  Common sense prevails here, dude.
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I'll just leave this here:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/97494-warrior-update-july/
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So people would drop, because reward blew for anything not gold.  At least they now have a chance at getting epics without gold.  
 
 
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Not when it was causing issues like people dropping when gold was out of reach. When people are doing dungeons just for attunment it would suck for them to disband. This is the solution they came up with to prevent that. Does it suck that gold doesn't get 100% epic drop, yeah, but does prevent people from disbanding.
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I edited my post before you fully responded.
 
Just think about it you troll.  Gold Dungeons will never be PuG'd anytime soon.  99% of premades can't even do it.  To get all the way them flawlessly and not get rewarded is way worse than scrubs not being able to finish adventures.  I do agree they should be able to have a chance at epics without gold.  I am not saying anything against that.  But to not have a guaranteed epic drop off of a gold run, which requires coordination and skill, is just absolutely stupid.  If the adventures took 15 minutes to run, not as many people would care.  But when they take a minimum of 25 minutes up to almost an hour in some cases, there is 0 reason for anyone to run them anymore for a SLIM chance at an epic.
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Well which is it...people are claiming it used to be 100%, you are saying the "chance" was greater before the patch, and there is another poster here who is putting up math that says it looks to be the same chance.
 
People shouting about flipping a coin 10 times and getting heads 9 times, so the coin must be broken.
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			Well I was waiting for these new changes to kick in but this is just stupid. Having to do run after run after run and getting worthless blues is not even worth logging in for.	
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How is that so?  At gold you are getting 4 rolls for loot.  The entire zones loot table is in those rolls, with no specified weight on any items.  The only way for the same 100% chance at epics off of the last boss would be if there was only 4 items on the entire zones loot table (which obviously isn't the case, and even at 4 items, it still wouldn't be 100% chance, because an item can be rerolled, leaving you with 2 of the same garbage drop).  Anyone who thinks there is 4 items on a zones loot table is dumb.
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How is that so?  At gold you are getting 4 rolls for loot.  The entire loot table is in those rolls, with no specified weight on any items.  The only way for the same 100% chance at epics off of the last boss would be if there was only 4 items on the entire zones loot table (which obviously isn't the case, and even at 4 items, it still wouldn't be 100% chance, because an item can be rerolled, leaving you with 2 of the same garbage drop).  Anyone who thinks there is 4 items on a zones loot table is dumb.
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The chance for an epic drop isn't equal, but the chance for a specific epic drop is.  Assuming his assumptions are true.
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			Meh... This didn't help the "gold or bust" mentality at all. Should've made it so each medal gives a superior(?)/purple no matter what, and then have the chance for more loot like you have in place right now. I've done 10 adventures today and everyone leaves when something goes wrong, or someone dies, or "you're not doing it the right way!" Pretty big let down... just sayin'.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Based on wildstarloot.com, you previously had a 1/13 chance, or 7.7%
 
If working correctly you now have a closer to 10% chance, but carbine needs to confirm the new 'final boss loot' table size so my math below can be confirmed.
 
Final table assumption 20: 5% chance at your claws
3 rolls at instance loot table for gold: 5.8% chance
 
For reference formula is the following: 1-((1-1/51))^3
 
So even if the final boss table is 50 pieces and includes your claws mathematically you have exactly the same chance to get your claws on a gold, and an actual (yet smaller) chance with silver/bronze/complete assuming things are working correctly.
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{| class="blockquote"
You're working from incorrect assumptions.  It isn't four rolls at any drop in the instance, its three rolls at any drop in the instance and one roll at what used to be on the gold and silver loot tables.  Depending on the size of the old silver loot table and the correctness of a few premises that are, in my opinion, shaky, its likely that the chance for a specific epic hasn't changed significantly.
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			5 gold malgrave 0 epics.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You can't read.  It is 1 drop + 3 additional drops for gold.  Which is 4 rolls.  They verified it is the zone loot table and no weights are given for epics.  You are wrong.
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{| class="blockquote"
You can rest assured that I will be making the player POV and feedback *very* clear to the developers. ;)
Sadly they are the only ones who can comment on if and why this would/would not be changed further. I'm just here to clarify a few things and pass on good feedback.
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im going to go ahead & say this. The update today was a disappoint to me. nice to some.
not being a troll... just going too lay it out because for the next month "at least. unless things change" I am paying for this game. 
 
you guys are catering to PvE for babies. this game was supposed to be hard? you just made it a lot easier.
we need.
-optimization for AMD processors... this 15-20FPS and hideous lag people are getting even with a nvidia 780 just isn't right!
 
-PvP fixes. lets start with not queuing up 1200 with 1800s. losing 30 points for a lost match is too high. I still see bots. The kickout/ban member is too long to AFKers.  I meen the game is practically over by the time the timer ends. A REAL player could contribute so much effort in that amount of time!
 
-UI fixes. lets start with Friends List adding. this whole add friend add account doesn't work. You have to either create a character on that server OR give out your email. terrible. FIX the party/raid list from dissapearing. /reloadui is getting annoying.
 
-housing needs more than 300 on the outside. because lets face it. just to decorate a table takes at least 3 items. no way the inside house should be 800.	
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			Thank you so much for nerfing Rampage. Hopefully now Warrior will be a little less Godmode.	
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			...you all read the part where they clearly stated that RARITY LEVELS WERE INCREASED FOR MANY ITEMS IN ADVENTURES RIGHT!...ya thought so..also you don't need specific runs anymore for specific loot <hint>...thumbs up cause this new system for regs and lvling is awesome	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
-PvP fixes. lets start with not queuing up 1200 with 1800s. losing 30 points for a lost match is too high. I still see bots. The kickout/ban member is too long to AFKers.  I meen the game is practically over by the time the timer ends. A REAL player could contribute so much effort in that amount of time!
 
-housing needs more than 300 on the outside. because lets face it. just to decorate a table takes at least 3 items. no way the inside house should be 800.
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{| class="blockquote"
You can't read.  It is 1 drop + 3 additional drops for gold.  Which is 4 rolls.  They verified it is the zone loot table and no weights are given for epics.  You are wrong.
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{| class="blockquote"
-housing needs more than 300 on the outside. because lets face it. just to decorate a table takes at least 3 items. no way the inside house should be 800.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Thank you so much for nerfing Rampage. Hopefully now Warrior will be a little less Godmode.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
5 gold malgrave 0 epics.
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{| class="blockquote"
Just gonna leave that little quote for you to mull through.  A 45 minute zone, run 5 times at gold level, and 0 epics.  You are so correct that out of 20 rolls, this group didn't even get an epic.  They would have received a minimum of 5 epics in the past with a max of 10. Now they have a 0 epic minimum and have a max of 20 now.  They still received 0 after the update.  Everything is working as intended clearly.
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{| class="blockquote"
5 gold malgrave 0 epics.
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{| class="blockquote"
And how many of those purples would have been the purple that they wanted?  Getting a blue instead of the purple you want isn't much different than getting the wrong purple.
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{| class="blockquote"
Lol seriously?  You are proving my point even more.  At this drop rate, how many times does someone have to run the zone to not only get an epic, but they epic they want, and then with the rune slots they need. Additionally, purples sell for more, and they salvage better.  Do you not read what you type before you his the 'Post' button?
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Having done a lot of adventures today, I can safely say: this was a terrible, terrible idea. Really bad. I mean, I don't know how this passed QC.
 
It may be better for Dungeons - maybe - I can't say for sure. But for Adventures, it's going to slow peoples' gear progress down massively. Let Dungeons and Raids be the skill test - let people at least have some fun in adventures.
 
with the exception of WotW, Crimelords and Siege, which are never fun under any circumstances.	
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			 looks good... it definitely encourages players to stick to fight and not leave, might help out pugs a bit, but getting final boss loot no matter how you perform might lead to exploiting. or maybe not, i guess we'll see.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think 800 inside and out would be awesome. This idea is solid... Make it so Cpt! Make it so...
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{| class="blockquote"
That is the point though.  Depending on the exact numbers, at this drop rate you will run the instance the same number of times to get a specific purple as you would before.  The only difference is that the wrong drop is likely to be multiple blues instead of a purple.
----
			Legit question, has anyone even actually gotten any epic drops since the update?	
----
			This is hilarious, it's like the evil genie version of what the announced fix would be.	
----
			
Maybe we need to start posting our run rates-
 
4 Wotw Golds- no purps. (One run we actually got 4 missions for some reason, completed all and the run in 18.5 minutes, no deaths, all totem caps and still got silver!)
 
1 Malgrave Gold- No purps. 
 
Start listing your results. See if that gets a reply.	
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{| class="blockquote"
However I don't know if I agree with your assumptions.  To begin with, the final table is the combination of the old gold and silver tables.  If the old gold table had 13 items, then assuming the old silver table only had 7 items isn't supportable.  I don't know of any source for the size of that table, and any arbitrary number you do choose will heavily bias your final total.
 
Additionally, you assume that all items have an equal chance for the medal rolls.  Given this bit from the patch notes, I don't know if that premise is sound:
 
 
The wording on it is weird, but its pretty clear that there is a bias in the medal loot rolls.  Whether it is for or against the old gold drops is dependent on the definition of the final boss's superb item list.
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Well, because of this update 3 of my 5man crew have refused to run any more Adventures.  Since starting today we got a total of 0 epics.  Yay.  Way to make the game enjoyable and fun.
 
Fun to play a MMO when your friends are logged off because of this change as well..	
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Here's what I don't get: The problem was players ditching because they won't get epics without hitting gold. So now, without epics, what is the incentive to complete anything?
 
To run up a higher purple-free score and post it here? That's all I'm seeing.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Well, because of this update 3 of my 5man crew have refused to run any more Adventures.  Since starting today we got a total of 0 epics.  Yay.  Way to make the game enjoyable and fun.
 
Fun to play a MMO when your friends are logged off because of this change as well..
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There's no good place for this loot change to go.
Happy that you guys are fixing bugs...got some good ones addressed this time around...didn't hit some painful ones...
 
But the loot change just kicked the guts out of the game.
 
I am not a hardcore fanboi.  Not for this game, not for any game.  But I do like this one an awful lot.
 
I get it.  You want people to have a reason to finish adventures and dungeons if a gold medal is no longer available.
 
But I feel this actually hurts your intended customer for this change far far far more than it does the hardcore players who weren't having the issue with deserters.
 
Of which I could definitely be considered on of...targetted customers that is.
 
I just went from "trying to get to the point of being a better player, but geez the hour long queues aren't fun"...
...to "trying to get to the point of being a better player, but geez it would be nice if ANYONE would queue"
 
I'd more than love to run with any of the guilds of which I'm a member...but...content difficulty = fixed groups.
The loot change removes almost any (I said almost) opportunity for joining the reindeer games.
 
Gear wall now nearly insurmountable.  Can't get there from here if running adventures for any reason has just been de-incetivized.
 
Part of the draw of WS was the whole point of rewarding effort.  Huge effort = huge rewards.  So what some infintesimal percentage of players got so good that the content was a loot pinata?
 
What about the other 90%-95% of us..?
 
Gold needs to give an epic.  There has to be a known reward for the effort.  Otherwise, a significant number of people will consider the effort "not worth the time".
 
TLDR:  Not-a-hardcore (me) suggesting reverting the gold medal change to either return the guaranteed epic or reverse the RNG to the point that not getting at least 1 of 4 is the small end of the table.
 
What was done for <none>, bronze, and silver accomplish the "reason to stay" goal just fine...'cause there's at least a real chance you'll get something anyway.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They want you out of Adventures and into Dungeons and Raids.
----
			No, this change breaks everything. I got golds just fine and expected my epic loot for just that reason - now I'm still running golds and getting no epics? Personally this does nothing to fix anything, merely breaks the system. I'll actually be canceling my sub because of this update. Terrible, absolutely terrible.	
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well carbine, the ditching is fixed. . the next problem is keeping incentive driven endgame players. the endgame events keep your game alive. if no one  has an incentive to do them, game over. a harsh temporary lock out penalty would fixed ditching easily.
 
 
btw - i don't blame you, carbine. i blame your owner company.	
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			The loot table changes are awesome so people will stop dropping if they cant get a medal. The boe thing was getting annoying though :P	
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Maybe they just forgot to link the purples table loot with the adventure rewards.
 
I hope so, because now it's just meaningless to adventure :/
 
Seeing all these posts, I wonder, did anyone loot a purple gear in adventure today? :/
 
"All excellent-quality and superb-quality items that were previously only available on the Silver and Gold Medals are now available from the final boss."
It doesn't mean we got 100% chance to have purple on the boss right? It is still a chance after defeating the boss, no matter the medal?
So basically nothing changed, as today I had no purple on Stormtalon bronze, but one on Stormtalon silver, and the superb were already lootable in bronze...
 
It feels like endgame has no point anymore, as the chance of looting an interesting item in Adventures/donjons is so low, you'd better just wait two mounth and buy everything at the elder gem's vendor and still got more than the same time farming adventures 24/7...
 
I trust Carbine to fix all of this, but seriously wonders how this could have been approved by any person in the whole team :/	
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Hey lets all make a pact to check the PTR notes before we rail on things.....check the newest one, I saw a few fixes for some of the big bugs
 
Tier 3 thickets fixed, will have tier 3 trees now
Downgraded path abilities are fixed
 
 
Also technologists are getting a new pot that will reduce lag for 60 mins
 
ok that last one was a joke.....	
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As someone who has been farming Veteran adventures for nearly a month now...this Is not a good fix at all. Before this new patch I had been farming WOTW for weeks attempting to get my dps and tank epic sword. It took 80 runs GOLD runs (and multiple other runs silver/bronze) before I finally saw a tank sword drop. I then caved in and bought my haggars sword from the auction house which is fine because it has better stats anyways. I then got to 82 GOLD runs in wotw and finally a DPS epic sword dropped and I won it. This means it took 82 runs in wotw with the old patch "guaranteeing" epics to drop but obviously not the ones you were looking for. Now with this new system in place not only do I have a worse chance at seeing the epic I need drop....but even seeing an epic at all...on GOLD. Case in point I ran malgrave aka horror fest of a 45 min run and zero epics......gold wotw 35 min run and zero epics......This system is flawed on so many levels. Previously for WOTW alone there was a 1 out of 13 chance that you would see the epic you would want drop...a 1 out of 3 chance you would see the epic drop with the max amount of slots for that item which range between 2,3, and 4. There would be a 1 out of 28 chance that the item would have all of the specific rune slots you were going for to attain your rune set bonus.
 
Now there is a 1 out of 51 chance that you will even see your epic drop for each roll, still a 1 out of 3 chance of having 4 rune slots, and still a 1 out of 28 chance of having it be the 4 runes slots you wanted.
This feels utterly insane and more like a ploy to get people to grind longer hence pay for the game longer.
 
at 82 runs before I saw the epic I wanted from the previous system in wotw.....and currently 67 gold runs in malgrave and I have yet to see either my tank helm, dps helm, or dps warrior boots drop was already grindy enough....this new system is beyond atrocious. People are going to wind up running only bronze runs as I can do WOTW in 8 mins on bronze and run it 4 times (32 mins) for a higher chance at getting an item I want than running a gold run  (35 mins typically), This system is jacked up and needs more of a fix than the previous one ever did....
 
Last I checked your philosophy for this game was that people who want to run elder content would have to realize this is a game that you play WITH OTHER PEOPLE it isn't something you pug and expect to see the best content, or the best rewards. Please don't pull a blizzard and start appealing to the casuals who couldn't get gold in what honestly just involves running it once on gold to learn it well enough to continue achieving it repeatedly.
 
What is next? winning a pvp ranked match and have a chance at 0 to 30 points? I would love to see pvpers gain zero points which is exactly how pvers feel with this new system. I don't feel rewarded at all for achieving gold.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Must be fun living in denial.
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sooo just did Gold Vet Crimelords
 
1 epic (not including decor)
3 blues
1 pattern
 
I don't see the problem	
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{| class="blockquote"
Nope. I really liked it.
Must be hard to live in a World where people think different than you. Probably didnt get many "no(s)" from your parents when growing up, huh?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
sooo just did Gold Vet Crimelords
 
1 epic (not including decor)
3 blues
1 pattern
 
I don't see the problem
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And how many of those purples would have been the purple that they wanted?  Getting a blue instead of the purple you want isn't much different than getting the wrong purple.
----
			The only real problem i'm seeing is that there's a hole in the language of the patch. If we're still getting a loot drop from the final encounter or boss's table... I mean, WotW... HAS no final encounter, Malgraves is theoretically random, Tempest Refuge is random, and the last boss in crimelords doesn't HAVE a loot table. So the problem here is, there's no where for the loot to go but the adventure wide loot pool. This removes the incentive for WotW to a degree, since the loot table there is pretty massive. If you want people to still attain some of the (and a good number of them are best in slot, which you may need to be able to DO dungeons) epics, there needs to be a designated SOMETHING in adventure that counts as a final encounter. Otherwise, yes, it helps get rid of the gold or bust mentality. On the other hand, all that effort translates into a crapshoot regardless of how much effort you put in at all. The language is just weird. 	
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Wouldn't most of these issues be solved if the loot tables weren't so bloated and itemization wasn't so horrible? I know people have spoken about this before, but why, for example, do SS and Esper healers need different stats to achieve the same thing? Instead of just needing a moxie/insight or finesse/insight item to achieve 'optimal' stat increases for a healer, you now need both. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why there was even moxie/insight gear (AP and SP on the same item!?) until someone pointed out the differences in stat effects between classes.I kinda get why they did it, but all it really has achieved is bloated loot tables, making RNG even worse because there are so many potential items to drop. Someone else pointed out how crafted gear is better, because you can actually choose your stats. Again, using Esper as an example, why do I, as a healer, need such a high brutality rating on a piece of  insight gear? Couldn't these items get looked at and reworked into flat  critical hit, critical severity, or focus recovery rating? If everyone is crafting gear for optimal stats because they can't be found on adventure/dungeon gear, then the terribly itemized items are vendor trash before they even drop, and waste space on the loot table.
 
Obviously I don't know everyone's perspective, but I'd love to see itemization looked at next, and perhaps even a slight homogenization of stat effects across classes/roles. If we assume players only roll on their armor type (which isn't true, even with the current stat system), we are effectively doubling the loot table in each instance to achieve the same thing. A 1 in 10 chance to get the item you want becomes 1 in 20. Considering probability can essentially result in 0 drops, even if it is a 1 in 10 chance, over hundreds of runs, the current system only makes things worse.	
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Yeah kinda what I was saying with WotW for instance Jynxii. Such a huge loot table that it doesn't matter if you up the chances, it's still diluted by all the blues available.
 
Essentially, they wanted to remove the gold or bust mentality. But to do that, you need to remove the heavy emphasis on getting gold, and place the heavy emphasis on finishing the run.
 
You have to have that carrot on the stick to get people to complete the instance, and without there being a goal at the end of the tunnel, as in an encounter that has a loot table with epics, what's to stop the dominant strategy in, say WotW from being either, run in, cap all possible totems, get the blues you want, and leave. Because there's so much loot in there, you're no longer guaranteed an epic at all even IF you work your butt off in the case of some freshly 50 players, or players that are new to MMOs.
 
What I was just telling a guildy in mumble, is essentially now, if you want to raid, you can go and grind them, if you reach a point where you realize, we may need some more gear numbers, you have to go and Grind dungeons, and if you find that you can't quite finish those because you still need some more gear, you are now forced to Grind adventures, which was previously the only reliable source of gear progression.	
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This game is turning into one gigantic insult.  It's gated content to the max in all regards.  It feels all the devs fired by Blizzard for incompetence and not being able to create none-gated content in MoP got picked up by Carabine.  Now we get the same garbage stuffed down the throat as we got by Blizzard in MoP.
 
Blizzard lost 30% subscribers until they finally adjusted, and it took them a few month to do so.  This game will be dead in a few month.  It's too much of a time sink.  The attunement process alone is a major road block.  Even if I liked to do a veteran dungeon, and I would be willing do wipe for hours, it's awful hard to find a competent group due to all the RNG going.  Often the game feels overloaded.  
 
Either the content is getting more playable or WildStar will turn into a placeholder until the WoD Beta is public.  The game had potential, but this last change in loot rolls with the terrible Carbine RNG is successfully preventing ppl from getting epics.   I have done a few gold runs after the patch, and it's frustrating to have the game bug out during the final loot roll or get a bunch of worthless blues.  No epic so fare!  For me my single only chance to get fully geared is gone, and I am still searching for an active guild, doing vet dungeon runs on a daily base.
 
I wonder how many player, who are screaming about well-fare epics, will be still playing the game in almost abandoned realms?  I guess the same "hardcore" players can be found in WoD again, bragging about their mystic progress.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't know if it's derogatory, but it definitely isn't complimentary. If I were to go into my office and call my supiorers cupcake, I doubt I would get the stamp of approval. I don't want to even think about what could happen if I called any of my female clients "Cupcake". Doubt I would be working with that client anymore... so yeah, seems to be a bit derogatory to me.
 
But maybe it is not so much derogatory as it is demeaning.
 
Trust me, I am all about not being over sensative, but words can mean different things based on the audiance or recieving party. With carbine's issues so far post launch, I don't believe they have room to be snarky/sarcastic.
----
			Just finished SoTR Gold and only got 3 blues. Didn't get the actual silver/gold table roll. Possibly a bug with the adventure, have used /bug on it, but also putting it out there on the forums here for other players to see.	
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			Carabine, before making such changes, why don't you consult with players? Currently you are making changes, have players complain, then you make changes again. It's not worth the effort. Give players some options, give them the opportunity to give their input before you implement changes. Otherwise, you are forced to go back and revise your choice. Gather feedback before, then implement. Not the way around. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
They made it clear before the patch. Bronze you have a small chance of getting epic. Silver you have a better chance of getting epic. Gold you have the best chance of getting an epic.
----
			
5 golds, 1 silver
 
1 epic drop
 
Looks like it's about 20% chance on a gold.
 
Other people are getting similar results.	
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Can we please have it so that gold will at least drop one epic? This changed has just utterly screwed over us semi-hardcore players who were consistantly getting gold in Adventures. It was hard enough to get loot we were looking for even then with RNG. Now there really isn't any point trying for them at all. Especially Malgrave, 45 minute runs for a whole lot of nothing. Went from 2 epics a run if RNGesus smiled on you a bit and nothing bugged to two hours and nothing to show for it.
 
I mean, I love this game and I'm not going to stop playing it anything, but in my opinion, this change broke a hell of a lot more than it fixed.
 
Just give me a damn epic if I can get gold. The extra chances are nice, it gives you a reason to finish if a Meatfiend flings himself at your caravan from 50 meters away and executes a random caravaneer, but for gods sake, give me a reason to do Adventures at all now.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Medals now also multiply the amount of money awarded from the final encounter:No Medal - 100% money reward
Bronze Medal - 150% money reward
Silver Medal - 200% money reward
Gold Medal - 250% money reward
----
			I love Wildstar, it's the first MMO I've really gotten into. Up until now, it's been pretty fantastic. However, I feel like it's getting stifling, there are so many gates and hurdles and it's ridiculous. It can take weeks to learn a new high-tier crafting if the RNG is against you and you don't get multiple eldan data fragments. The dailies never change, etc. But i'd dealt with all of that because I could run vet instances and usually gold them with a decent chance at an upgrade. But today I've run 3 vets, golded them all, and haven't even seen an epic drop. This new patch just disincentives adventures period, and is a huge turn-off from the game in general.	
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Is getting epics all you people care about? Have you actually tried to think what this change was made for and why they think it's good?
 
Running pugs after the patch is just amazingly better. I have not had a single disband vote done. Sure a person leaves here and there, but you get a replacement and move on. I haven't done many golds, but a hell of a lot of solid silvers that did drop epics as well. Before the patch all these silvers would be insta disbands and another wait in queue.
 
So running pickup groups is now actually a viable option, compared to before when wotw was basically the only adventure running, caus it was easier to get gold.
 
You want a guaranteed epic if you get gold? You will have the same issue as before. Those that only want epics, will insta disband. No questions asked, they will leave, because silver won't be a guaranteed one.
 
I understand if you have a solid group of 5 people that consistantly gets gold this is a kick in the nuts. But have you even tried running dungeons? Me and my friends, the few times where we can actually get together in an evening and play for a while, are far from good. In fact our coordination is quite mediocre. Yet we went into stormtalon, with our crafted runed blues and questing greens wanting a challenge. 4 hours of wiping later. We managed to call it at the last boss. Next time we went in, another few hours wiping, but the last boss went down. We're now farming it. And I repeat, we are average at best. Kel vorath, similar deal.
 
You don't need to run endless adventures for that one piece of epic loot, which is most of the time worse than a blue piece you could get somewhere else. Why do you want upgrades at all? You don't even know what you can't do, if you haven't tried dungeons.
 
So I for one, love this change. It makes picking a random group of people up and going through it, at silver or even bronze, possible. If you're lucky you also get an epic drop. Happened quite a few times. This way, eventually, pugging dungeons will be doable. Hectic, but doable.
 
If you have a steady team of 5 players, for love of god, don't be scared of what other people say, it really isn't that hard, go do veteran dungeons. Then complain over this patch when you get an epic after a bronze/silver run.	
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			Is it just me, or did Veteran adventure pugs become sloppy across the board since this patch went live? Used to be able to get gold at a reasonable rate with guaranteed epics at the end. Now it's all sloppy, and whether or not an epic even drops is random chance. Did things get worse or what?	
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{| class="blockquote"
5 golds, 1 silver
 
1 epic drop
 
Looks like it's about 20% chance on a gold.
 
Other people are getting similar results.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Is getting epics all you people care about? Have you actually tried to think what this change was made for and why they think it's good?
 
Running pugs after the patch is just amazingly better. I have not had a single disband vote done. Sure a person leaves here and there, but you get a replacement and move on. I haven't done many golds, but a hell of a lot of solid silvers that did drop epics as well. Before the patch all these silvers would be insta disbands and another wait in queue.
 
So running pickup groups is now actually a viable option, compared to before when wotw was basically the only adventure running, caus it was easier to get gold.
 
You want a guaranteed epic if you get gold? You will have the same issue as before. Those that only want epics, will insta disband. No questions asked, they will leave, because silver won't be a guaranteed one.
 
I understand if you have a solid group of 5 people that consistantly gets gold this is a kick in the nuts. But have you even tried running dungeons? Me and my friends, the few times where we can actually get together in an evening and play for a while, are far from good. In fact our coordination is quite mediocre. Yet we went into stormtalon, with our crafted runed blues and questing greens wanting a challenge. 4 hours of wiping later. We managed to call it at the last boss. Next time we went in, another few hours wiping, but the last boss went down. We're now farming it. And I repeat, we are average at best. Kel vorath, similar deal.
 
You don't need to run endless adventures for that one piece of epic loot, which is most of the time worse than a blue piece you could get somewhere else. Why do you want upgrades at all? You don't even know what you can't do, if you haven't tried dungeons.
 
So I for one, love this change. It makes picking a random group of people up and going through it, at silver or even bronze, possible. If you're lucky you also get an epic drop. Happened quite a few times. This way, eventually, pugging dungeons will be doable. Hectic, but doable.
 
If you have a steady team of 5 players, for love of god, don't be scared of what other people say, it really isn't that hard, go do veteran dungeons. Then complain over this patch when you get an epic after a bronze/silver run.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
5 golds, 1 silver
1 epic drop
Looks like it's about 20% chance on a gold.
 
Other people are getting similar results.
----
			So, assuming a 20% drop rate on epics, its what, a 1.5% chance to see the epic you're looking for on a given WotW run? Am I doing that math right? It was worth doing for a 7% chance, but jeez. Might as well just wait a week for your Adventus weapon. You'll be farming at least that long. I bet you're going to see a lot more people farming rares for epic boe's because its probably a higher drop rate. 	
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			It just sucks for Carbine that the DDoS attack is going on as this drops. There might be a lot more dialogue going on between Dev and Community if not for whoever decided to ruin thousands of peoples day.	
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			Ran WotW 3 times in a row tonight, gold, silver, gold. Guess what, same 3 blue items dropd each run. RNG ftl ...	
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
You have to realize that sure, people will complete, they will get MORE of the blue gear, but once everyone has the blue gear, cause it's more likely to drop now, the cycle will start over. People want gear progression, it's tangible, it's visual. Adventures aren't as grindy as dungeons are. Albeit I personally love it, you have to understand that people want to make sure they're ready for that stuff.
 
Give it a while, you will start to see the disbands again, or less que pops overall.
 
Bottom line here, is yes, to answer your question: Getting gear is all people in MMO's usually care about. Generalizing here, but why do you raid? To finish it and get the gear, why do you pvp? To get the rating to get the gear to be the best. Yes. People care about the epics. They always will.
 
 
IMO.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah kinda what I was saying with WotW for instance Jynxii. Such a huge loot table that it doesn't matter if you up the chances, it's still diluted by all the blues available.
----
			
The new loot system completely destroyed the adventures/dungeons. Before this patch, I had some incentive to run adventures. Why would I queue for them now? I've got all the crappy blues that can remotely be of use.
 
Actually, I was very excited about this patch, I thought adventures would guarantee at least 1 epic drop despite the medal earned. And that gold medal rewards would remain the same, at least. Very disappointing surprise that after *wasting* (yeah, wasting, running adventures is rather boring at this point if it wasn't for the loot) 60 minutes in a Malgrave Trail gold medal, we got 3 (not even 4) blue drops. Also, 2 of them couldn't be used by any of our group members.
 
Yay. RNG inside RNG. Just what we needed. This is starting to resemble one of those grindfest korean-style MMOs so popular in the Far East. And you know, they aren't so popular in NA/EU. Nor they have a sub fee.
 
You have a very nice MMO as reference: World of Warcraft. Take the things they did right. Please. Can't believe there isn't a smartloot system implemented yet. Bosses dropping unusable items is such a flaw I can't even think how could it be done. On the long run, you'll lose more and more customers due to people being bored because, to be fair, running dungeons/adventures won't be worth the time investment. Better go to the housing plot and water the flowers on your garden.
 
FIX your loot system. ASAP. This will destroy the game in the (not so) long run.
 
PD: Oh, and I don't want to talk about the Scorchwing world event. 90 spawn window for a daily, the boss doesn't drop purple items (yeah, slight chance, again, RNG. Yay!), and it's 1/3 of the quests that give Grove reputation. In a word: Pfffffffffff.	
----
			the money rewards for adventures is bugged... can you fix them at least? If not for the loot i can still running those istances for some money...	
----
			
Well at the rate Carbine is going this will be free to play within 2 months.
Incoming cash shop costumes and mounts.
Nj Carbine.	
----
			
This is seriously frustrating. Yesterday I ran Malgrave 4 times gold, Seige on Storm Tempest 3 times Gold, and crimelords once. gold. ONE only ONE piece of epic dropped and it was the stalkers weapons, which no one in the party could use. I -hate- these adventures I am only doing them to gear up for the Dungeons which I am really excited about doing more with my guild.
 
This is the first MMO ive played and really enjoyed because at first I felt I was -playing- a game and not on some endless grind fest. Leveling didnt feel like a chore it's been fun to actually -play- the game. These adventures however are miserable. I just want to get my stupid gear so I never have to do them again.
 
Yes something needed to be done about deserters, and yes its awesome you have a chance for an epic with silver and bronze...but it should be GUARANTEED on a gold run. I really hope they fix this...soon...please.	
----
			
Previous loot system had seriously too much RNG since i didn't get any loot i needed in 3 weeks, running ~60 gold adventures a week, i did like 180 gold runs for... nothing, I could go on vacation during these 3 weeks to get same results...
Now you make it even more random so please do something like tokens rewards to give players a little hope to progress in their gearing because this loot system is really frustrating
 
Crafting gear has the same RNG problem, i crafted about 200 chests to get only one with 3 (craps) rune slots.
 
I propose several fixes to these problems :
 
- Set a fixed number of runes for each gear (like green : 1 slot, blue : 2 slots, purple : 3 slots etc) keep RNG only for the type of runes (it's already a big amount of RNG)
- make dungeon loot have a higher ilvl than adventure's (the more difficult it is, the more rewarded it is)
- give token rewards, for example, 1 for bronze, 2 for silver, 3 for gold, make a vendor to sell adventure's loot for theses tokens (so unlucky players can progress) maybe these points can be used to roll new slots on a gear.
 
Giving purple gear in adventures was a mistake but you can't solve it now, you also can't keep this loot system until you fix some RNG, the sooner the better.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Even if they were trash epics, they would still be worth more salvaging or vendoring. rarely have i ever seen an epic go to wast, since we are still in the early stages of gearing. At least if one dropped (and it was one i could not use) i could rationalize it as "bad rng", I could shake it off and requeue knowing i was guaranteed to see another epic, because my friends and I had learned the instance.  Now when i run gold (if i even bother to at this point), it's not "bad rng' anymore it's bad game design. I could spend all day farming an Adv only to luck out. While some schmuck can run the same instance, get bronze and get lucky. You took a 100% chance of getting en epic and knocked it down to 10%. This patch effectively killed adventures. 
----
			
You know, something that needs to be mentioned here: I am officially WORRIED about the difficulty of WS's raids.
 
I'm worried that they'll be *cupcake*-easy.
 
Why? Because it's clear that Carbine is tossing every single timesink possible in front of us as we try to get to raids.
 
In WoW, raids WERE the timesink. Boss progression didn't happen at such a rapid rate that players would clear the hardest content in two weeks and be done. And if that's the same thing for WS, then why have all of the annoying, pointless timesinks?	
----
			
"Items
When moving a Soulbind-On-Equip item in your inventory, the "Confirm soulbind" dialog will now only appear if the item would become soulbound."Thanks, I was just about to send a /bug on just this very subject (but got booted from Mikros around the 9 PM EDT hour so went and did something else *GASP*)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The only difference is that they will be getting the wrong blues and purples instead of the wrong purple.  Given a few assumptions about the loot tables, your chances to get a specific item are about the same now as they were before the patch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You keep saying this like you are hoping it is true.  How in the world do you think that people are going to get the correct epics rather than one that can't be used if overall FARRRRRRRRRRRRRR less epics are dropping.
 
If it took 50 epics before to drop to get the one you wanted, then it will take 50 epics now (which will take a minimum of 4 times as many runs in total, approximately).  It is all completely RNG, so you could get lucky and get it next run, or you could get it after 348 runs.  You saying that there is a better chance for a specific epic to drop is just dumb.  This system wouldn't be asssssssssss bad if there was some sort of SMARTLOOT system, because then atleast someone is dropping for the classes you have, and if someone already has the item it wouldn't drop.  So far there has been like 4 posts of people getting epics, and all 4 of those couldn't even use the item because that class wasn't in the group or they already had it.
 
Stop speaking nonsense to make yourself feel better about this terrible patch.
----
			
Bottom line:
 
Before patch: We lost gold? oh well /disband
After patch: Why queue? I'm just gonna save up and have <insert progressing guild name here> run me through the content.
 
Before patch: PUG Group - Experienced player: "Ok guys, here is how you get gold on this vet dungeon guaranteed" / Pug players: "*cupcake* off! You're not the boss of me! plus I read / friend told me / just feel like this OTHER way will work best
After patch: PUG Group - Experienced player: "Ok guys, here is how you get gold on this vet dungeon guaranteed"  / Pug players: "*cupcake* off! All we need is bronze for a shot at epics anyways, everyone knows its just gonna drop blues"
 
Before patch: ZOMG!!! These vet dungeons are ANNOYING! We never get gold!!! <something is learned and clicks> ZOMG!!! Getting vet gold Adventures and vet silver Dungeons are EZMODE!!!
After patch: ZOMG!!! These vet dungeons are ANNOYING! We only ever get blue drops and if an epic drops its never what i need! <nothing is learned due to a lack of return on time investment and motivation>
 
Before patch: "I just did my 100th+ Gold vet run, woot!" - Other player: "Really? could you teach me how to do that? i'm gearing up for vet dungeons / raid"
After patch: "I just dud my 100th+ Gold vet run woot!!" - Other player: "Whatever bro, Gold doesn't matter anymore"
 
Before patch: Gold medals = Epics = Carrot = Players on a never ending quest to gear up for the next tier of content
After patch: Any medal = most likely blues = no carrot = a lot of players "taking it easy for awhile" = NOT on a never ending quest to gear up = Less people queuing = No one rage quitting on PUG runs because there's no one queuing for them
 
Carbine, you must learn what EVERY MMO developer always learns at one time during their empire: You never mess with the carrot.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Before patch: We lost gold? oh well /disband
After patch: Why queue?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can rest assured that I will be making the player POV and feedback *very* clear to the developers. ;)
Sadly they are the only ones who can comment on if and why this would/would not be changed further. I'm just here to clarify a few things and pass on good feedback.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You keep saying this like you are hoping it is true.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am saying this like someone actually did the math.  Its weird how convincing real numbers can be.
 
** I bet you still believe "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
 
This appears to be your fundamental misunderstanding.  It took 50 runs before, not 50 purple drops.  And it will take 50 runs now, not 50 purple drops.  The wrong item dropping not being a purple doesn't matter, its still the wrong item.
 
**This Obama logic that you're using to explain 0 changes to loot drops is kind of hilarious. No really, I'm so glad you straightened us out.
 
 
This was true before the patch, and is still true after the patch.
 
**Your generalization of RNG while ignoring the huge hit to the % chance to obtain these items leads me to believe you're either trolling or have some sort of mental impairment.
 
I'm not saying there is a better chance for a specific epic to drop.  I am saying that, given certain assumptions about the loot tables, the probability of a specific item dropping hasn't changed significantly for a gold run.
 
**Yup, i've decided, he is definitely trolling.
 
I finished my silver dungeon runs the week before this patch, and completed the attunement for GA last night.  I am sitting at 1908 AP on my Engineer with my only viable upgrades before raiding being extremely lucky crafting results.  There haven't been upgrades for me, in dungeons or adventures, for a long time.  I don't care about this patch, but I do care about people being wrong on the internet.
 
**Translation: I gots my *Cupcake* yo! Time to hate on all those that didn't cause i'm awesome.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Bottom line:
 
Before patch: We lost gold? oh well /disband
After patch: Why queue? I'm just gonna save up and have <insert progressing guild name here> run me through the content.
 
Before patch: PUG Group - Experienced player: "Ok guys, here is how you get gold on this vet dungeon guaranteed" / Pug players: "*cupcake* off! You're not the boss of me! plus I read / friend told me / just feel like this OTHER way will work best
After patch: PUG Group - Experienced player: "Ok guys, here is how you get gold on this vet dungeon guaranteed"  / Pug players: "*cupcake* off! All we need is bronze for a shot at epics anyways, everyone knows its just gonna drop blues"
 
Before patch: ZOMG!!! These vet dungeons are ANNOYING! We never get gold!!! <something is learned and clicks> ZOMG!!! Getting vet gold Adventures and vet silver Dungeons are EZMODE!!!
After patch: ZOMG!!! These vet dungeons are ANNOYING! We only ever get blue drops and if an epic drops its never what i need! <nothing is learned due to a lack of return on time investment and motivation>
 
Before patch: "I just did my 100th+ Gold vet run, woot!" - Other player: "Really? could you teach me how to do that? i'm gearing up for vet dungeons / raid"
After patch: "I just dud my 100th+ Gold vet run woot!!" - Other player: "Whatever bro, Gold doesn't matter anymore"
 
Before patch: Gold medals = Epics = Carrot = Players on a never ending quest to gear up for the next tier of content
After patch: Any medal = most likely blues = no carrot = a lot of players "taking it easy for awhile" = NOT on a never ending quest to gear up = Less people queuing = No one rage quitting on PUG runs because there's no one queuing for them
 
Carbine, you must learn what EVERY MMO developer always learns at one time during their empire: You never mess with the carrot.
 
 
 
 
Tiger- You couldnt be more spot on. This needs to be addressed. I cannot stress how short the fuse just got for a lot of players before this all blows up and people walk away. Carbine has a great thing- they need to listed and respond to the player base.
 
Give us some feedback on the direction here???? Anything constructive!
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
being extremely lucky crafting results
----
			I was going to start dungeons in a couple of days, but with the new changes i ll stay away. This is too much. Carbine Devs dont be ashamed for a wrong move you made and correct it ASAP. Every single person i know is MAD! Just correct this before its too late. This is prime time in EU (19.35) and only 2 servers are medium anymore. Save what you can else no1 will be left here...	
----
			Aws	
----
			
One other thought here Carbine- You're viewing this topic and seeing the number of replies and views from those of us being vocal about it. What about the customers you have that aren't thinking they can make a difference by posting their opinion on it? Those people will just walk away if things don't change. You won't know it until you see the decline before its too late. 
 
A very small percentage of your customer base is voicing their opinion on the fact that the changes to your product is not acceptable-- which, if not repaired or changed, usually means going to the competition or looking at options which equals a loss for you.
 
Please respond.	
----
			
This is my final farewell to Nexus, and these forums in general.  I may lurk, just to check up on the status of the game (might as well?  between my wife, myself, and friends i dropped nearly 400 USD on your game carbine.) to see if you can come out of the rubble you have created for yourself.  I had so much high hopes for you, so much that I broke my own personal promise to myself to NEVER pre-order an MMO again.  I always told myself i'd wait 3-4 months on the release of an MMO to be sure its worth my money investment.  I did this with ESO, and im certainly happy I did.  Some how, you tricked me into believe pre-ordering for myself and many close to me was worth it.  Now I'm 400 USD out cause, you have collapsed your game into nothing now.
There is NO reason to play any more.  PvP gear is pointless. PvE drops are now useless.  Dailies are the same 2 1/2 zones we get to see every day.  Your adventures are RNG nightmares, along with some of the most boring content I've ever played.  Whoever thought Oregeon trail 2014 for an adventure was a good idea, should have been fired from the Carbine staff team.
 
I'm going to rage, i think my 400 USD is more then enough reason for me to do so.  Maybe some of you are laughing at me for being the generous one around the people close to me.  Well, like i said, Carbine tricked me.  I had so much high hopes for this game.  You even started off better on headstart then you are now.
 
You broke stalkers, you broke pvp gear, you broke pve gear.  That is every reason i chose to play this game, in its entirety.  I was never that attracted to your universe.. its just another themepark mmo.  I was never that attracted to your races.. they are basic MMO races for the most part.  I was never THAT attracted to anything you did, all you managed to do is take everything that all the other MMO's did well and incoporate it into your game.  Some of that you did incredibly well, even at head start.  Then patches started to come. 
 
I may come back, for now I have cancelled my sub, along with many of my friends, and guild mates.  Its a shame you have gone the route you did.  You had so much potential, 3k queues on headstart and now, every time I log into pergo i see the next person in zone chat saying "xxx server is now dead.. how is this one,"  Well I'm going to imagine it's not too much longer until Pergo dies too. 
 
TL;DR, Good job @ making me ensure I will never, ever pre-order an MMO again for as long as i live.  The hype train/being first in the community isn't worth it if the community is shit , and subsquently the developers aparantly are too.
 
P.s.  How in your right minds did you go with NCsoft as a publisher.. are you down right stupid, or did you go with the first person that said yes to you? 
 
P.s.s i'll give you some props on your combat system (even though that still needs a lot of work.) 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
THAT
i don't like.
Being "extremely lucky" is not hardcore. I don't wanna be the crafting lucky star, i wanna wear something i've earned with skill and experience. And a little RNG too, but... that much is betrayal.
----
			this silence is too much... no words from dev.. in the meantime i cancelled my subscription.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
this silence is too much... no words from dev.. in the meantime i cancelled my subscription.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Carbine, you must learn what EVERY MMO developer always learns at one time during their empire: You never mess with the carrot.
----
			
The other asinine thing I'd like to point out about this medal system.
 
a.) You promised to never cater to casuals, when this is exactly what you attempted to do.
 
b.) You broke gold for the skilled players in attempt to cater to the casuals.
 
c.) Your entire gaming population, doesn't consist of ptr players or forum posters.  You should really go about informing your community fully of your change your about to do, so more can come in and talk about it.  Not every one is a forum lurker, and isn't prepared to wake up to a asinine change they had no expectation of coming.
 
d.) it seems like, some simple testing on your behalf would realize how ridiculous this is.  As the above poster quoted, never *cupcake*with our carrot.	
----
			
Today's lesson:
 
4 Siege vet runs, 2 wotw vet runs, and a crimelords vet run just for the hell of it. 2 of the Siege runs, the crimelord, and 1 wotw vet run PUG group destructed with rage quits as soon as gold achievement possibility was lost. It seems that what Carbine set out to fix was NOT fixed, and they added a 2nd major issue.
 
Issue 1: Members chain quit in PUG runs if gold achievement isn't a possibility - Still an issue post patch
 
Issue 2 (New): 1 or more members of the PUG run decides they don't need to try because you still get a roll on a possible purple with bronze
 
 
Lesson learned: You can't fix PUGs because its RNG. You're trying to fix RNG with more RNG. If Blizzard taught us one thing in the last 3 years, it was that "Group finder" and DEFINATELY "Raid finder" was the worst idea to ever be sold to the MMO community since the F2P cash shop model.
 
There will always be trolls, subpar players, players that don't care, players that want to make other people miserable and destroy their fun for their own gratification, and people that cry about everything, because PEOPLE ARE LIKE THAT. When you dis-incentivize game play, you dis-incentivize subscriptions.  	
----
	
----
			
Iv always hated RNG with loot.
 
So theres a chance you roll and its a purple drop
If it rolls a purple drop theres a chance its the purple drop you want
If it rolls the purple drop you want theres a chance it has the runeslots (and/or stats?) you want
And after all of that theres a chance you win the roll for the item (assuming others are rolling on it)
 
So in the hypothetical situation that theres a 10% droprate for purples, theres 10 purples, and a 5% chance for good runeslots.....
0.1 x 0.1 x 0.05 = 0.0005 chance to get the drop.
0.05%.... Thats what 1/2000? So one out of 2000 runs this item will drop.
Timewise thats ~ 60min with que time? per dungeon/adventure or 120000min = 2000hrs = 83 days of playtime? (250 days at 8hrs a day)
But heck thats not even guaranteed. Thats just what to expect.
 
Yeah I'm not going to put time in for a chance at a reward. Thats like going to work for a chance to make money.
Im going to do things that will guarantee me a reward after enough time like crafting.... Or PvP.
 
 
On a more serious note are these adventures/dungeons really that boring? Do they suck that bad?
If they do how would you make them more fun?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is my final farewell to Nexus, and these forums in general.  I may lurk, just to check up on the status of the game (might as well?  between my wife, myself, and friends i dropped nearly 400 USD on your game carbine.) to see if you can come out of the rubble you have created for yourself.  I had so much high hopes for you, so much that I broke my own personal promise to myself to NEVER pre-order an MMO again.  I always told myself i'd wait 3-4 months on the release of an MMO to be sure its worth my money investment.  I did this with ESO, and im certainly happy I did.  Some how, you tricked me into believe pre-ordering for myself and many close to me was worth it.  Now I'm 400 USD out cause, you have collapsed your game into nothing now.
There is NO reason to play any more.  PvP gear is pointless. PvE drops are now useless.  Dailies are the same 2 1/2 zones we get to see every day.  Your adventures are RNG nightmares, along with some of the most boring content I've ever played.  Whoever thought Oregeon trail 2014 for an adventure was a good idea, should have been fired from the Carbine staff team.
 
I'm going to rage, i think my 400 USD is more then enough reason for me to do so.  Maybe some of you are laughing at me for being the generous one around the people close to me.  Well, like i said, Carbine tricked me.  I had so much high hopes for this game.  You even started off better on headstart then you are now.
 
You broke stalkers, you broke pvp gear, you broke pve gear.  That is every reason i chose to play this game, in its entirety.  I was never that attracted to your universe.. its just another themepark mmo.  I was never that attracted to your races.. they are basic MMO races for the most part.  I was never THAT attracted to anything you did, all you managed to do is take everything that all the other MMO's did well and incoporate it into your game.  Some of that you did incredibly well, even at head start.  Then patches started to come. 
 
I may come back, for now I have cancelled my sub, along with many of my friends, and guild mates.  Its a shame you have gone the route you did.  You had so much potential, 3k queues on headstart and now, every time I log into pergo i see the next person in zone chat saying "xxx server is now dead.. how is this one,"  Well I'm going to imagine it's not too much longer until Pergo dies too. 
 
TL;DR, Good job @ making me ensure I will never, ever pre-order an MMO again for as long as i live.  The hype train/being first in the community isn't worth it if the community is shit , and subsquently the developers aparantly are too.
 
P.s.  How in your right minds did you go with NCsoft as a publisher.. are you down right stupid, or did you go with the first person that said yes to you? 
 
P.s.s i'll give you some props on your combat system (even though that still needs a lot of work.) 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
XDXDXD  How do you spend $400 on an MMO just barely a month after release?  Did you buy the game for 5-6 people?  And what's this about cancelling subs?  You can play for free just like I and many others do.  lol  Posts like these are so absurd when in-game currency is so easy to acquire.  Yes, we are all laughing at you for being the 'generous one'.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Did a gold Malgrave trail.  Final boss in Ubo dropped the same stuff he's always dropped.  No epic awarded for the medal, 3x trash blues.
 
Again... no epic awarded for gold run.
 
It appears adventures have gone from "gold or nothing" to "why bother at all"
----
			
Idea.
 
Put the loot back the way it was if you actually get a 5 man group and walk in the front door of the instance. Pugs can still have their chance at epics. Guilds can actually get gear.
 
Everybody is happy?	
----
			
Just 1 question:
Are you going to fix it?
 
The Dev's are listening...... so I hope Dev's can also reply (o:	
----
			Carbine, where the F&*K is your community response employee?  Shits been out a few days, and NO ONE is happy.   Are your fingers/hands broken?  Are you to good to respond?   I do enjoy this game, but when I run Gold Adventures, like many other I'd like to be rewarded with Epic loot, not crap vendor blues.  We work hard to achieve Gold and gear up, and you shit down our throats with a broken hotfix.....   Even worse, you don't respond to your communities outrage and apply another fix,  1 roll on the bosses loot table should 100% be a purple item, and 3 rolls on instance-wide loot should have a chance to also be boss loot.  I mean it's Gold, the rewards should reflect that.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine, where the F&*K is your community response employee?  Shits been out a few days, and NO ONE is happy.   Are your fingers/hands broken?  Are you to good to respond?   I do enjoy this game, but when I run Gold Adventures, like many other I'd like to be rewarded with Epic loot, not crap vendor blues.  We work hard to achieve Gold and gear up, and you shit down our throats with a broken hotfix.....   Even worse, you don't respond to your communities outrage and apply another fix,  1 roll on the bosses loot table should 100% be a purple item, and 3 rolls on instance-wide loot should have a chance to also be boss loot.  I mean it's Gold, the rewards should reflect that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To clarify;
The intent of this change was not to make getting Epics easier, but to stop players from disbanding as soon as they failed to meet Gold requirements. 
----
			
Turn the primal pattern drop into a currency used to buy the next Tier of gear. Since they only drop on completion, you have to complete to farm them. Also, put in a daily dungeon completion quest, you could either make it "just do any dungeon today" or you could make it require a certain one and alternate it.
 
EDIT - also, not keen on one person winning a handful of primal patterns in a dungeon while no one else gets them. Just give each player 1 at the end of each dungeon, gauranteed, then maybe roll on an extra one or two. That way if you blaspheme the RNG gods, at least you can attune by doing the dungeons. 	
----
			I just want to say this new loot patch is s*t and if devs are speaking they should tell if this is intended or a bug... We don't even get rewarded money for medals.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
long nitpick quote post
----
			Thevic please read the former posts, a staff member from carbine allready stated that it was intended to work this way...	
----
			Depressing. Major major PR screw ups recently over a number of issues.	
----
			
I don't know why I continue to respond to you.  You clearly do not get it, and will continue to not get it as rudely as you can.  I soldier on in the hope that someone reading this exchange will be enlightened instead.
 
{| class="blockquote"
You don't need math for the change.  You need logic.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What I am arguing is that the probability of getting the item you want from one of the four rolls you get for a gold medal is about the same as the probability of getting the item you want from one roll against the old gold medal loot table.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I will just stop you here so everyone can see how wrong the defense is.  It used to be 100% drop rate.  So you are saying that is is still a 100% drop rate because of the amount of rolls you get?
 
Thanks for clearing that up... LOL.  It is unbelievable you aren't on the streets or dead with believing something that unbelievable wrong/misleading (not that i would wish that on anyone).  I hope you don't make your own financial decisions, because your math and logic are beyond flawed.  Anyone who has gotten 0 epics on Gold for 10+ runs want to chime in?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Getting the item you want wasn't a 100% drop rate before the patch.  People didn't want any purple, they wanted a specific purple.  And getting that specific item is about as likely now if you get a gold medal.
 
There is no significant difference in not getting the item you want for 10+ runs before the patch and after the patch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 EXACTLY! Why all of a sudden do you assume that the chance of getting the epic you want to drop, is better, when the chance of an epic at all are WORSE.  Seriously?  Do you stop and think about anything before you respond?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am done responding to you until you provide a quote showing me saying someone has a better chance at getting a purple now than before the patch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
if they do that, its the same as befor and people go on leaving after goldfail
----
			How about something like Bronze gives a chance at purple, silver gives a guarenteed purple with no extra chances for purple, and gold gives a guarenteed purple with 2 extra rolls for another?	
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It's a straightup nerf to the individual trying to get a specific epic from an adventure.  However, it is not as a bad a nerf as it initially feels:
 
The data on the number of blue and purple quality items that drop in the instance is taken from wildstarloot.com.  If anyone has a more reliable source, I would welcome it.  The percentages bellow are the chance you would have received the specific epic you where looking for after achieving gold in the old system, and the chance you will receive it in the new system given three rolls for gold.  In parenthesis are the chances for the item in the new system given a silver/bronze medal.
 
Crimelords32 blue, 8 purple12.5% then / 7.5% (5%/2.5%) nowMalgrave42 blues, 16 purple6.25% then / 5.2% (3.5%/1.7%) nowSoTR29 blue, 10 purple10% then / 7.7% (5.1%/2.6%) nowWotW38 blue, 13 purple7.7 / 5.8 (3.9%/1.9%) now
 
In spite of the nerf, this system still might be better for the community if it stops so many groups from disbanding.  That said, the complete mismanagement of this announcement has probably done more harm than the new system will ever do good.  So many people that used to farm adventures for that one epic they needed have now walked away from adventures for good.	
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{| class="blockquote"
It's a straightup nerf to the individual trying to get a specific epic from an adventure.  However, it is not as a bad a nerf as it initially feels:
 
The data on the number of blue and purple quality items that drop in the instance is taken from wildstarloot.com.  If anyone has a more reliable source, I would welcome it.  The percentages bellow are the chance you would have received the specific epic you where looking for after achieving gold in the old system, and the chance you will receive it in the new system given three rolls for gold.  In parenthesis are the chances for the item in the new system given a silver/bronze medal.
 
Crimelords
32 blue, 8 purple
12.5% then / 7.5% (5%/2.5%) now
 
Malgrave
42 blues, 16 purple
6.25% then / 5.2% (3.5%/1.7%) now
 
SoTR
29 blue, 10 purple
10% then / 7.7% (5.1%/2.6%) now
 
WotW
38 blue, 13 purple
7.7 / 5.8 (3.9%/1.9%) now
 
In spite of the nerf, this system still might be better for the community if it stops so many groups from disbanding.  That said, the complete mismanagement of this announcement has probably done more harm than the new system will ever do good.  So many people that used to farm adventures for that one epic they needed have now walked away from adventures for good.
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