138555-elitists-kicking-new-players-from-party-uninstalled-page-2

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You're missing my point. I don't care about defending him, he's gone. There's nobody left to defend.
He left because of behaviors of players who are still here. And I find it hard to believe that he's the only one that's finding their behavior problematic. That is worth knowing, and I appreciate his taking the time to tell us.
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	ELITISTS KICKING NEW PLAYERS FROM PARTY, UNINSTALLED
Title made me laugh, it reminds me of the typical line from LoL "Uninstall and go kill yourself". 	
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You're missing my point. I don't care about defending him, he's gone. There's nobody left to defend.
He left because of behaviors of players who are still here. And I find it hard to believe that he's the only one that's finding their behavior problematic. That is worth knowing, and I appreciate his taking the time to tell us.
 
 
I used to think that kind of thing as well, but here's the problem with it. Those single impatient community members are simply doing what they are allowed to do. They're the PvE equivalent of the PvP ganker who spawncamps at lowbie zones and thinks it's hilarious to watch people ragequit. You can get mad at them, but the reality is that the game could in fact put a stop to spawncamping any time it feels like it. Many games have done so very effectively.
 
At some point you have to stop looking at people who are acting like *cupcakes* because they can, and start asking why they can get away with acting like *cupcakes*.
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All due respect, but the OP did in fact do this game's community a great favor by posting why he was uninstalling and leaving the game. That's a trait to be lauded, not insulted.
 
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			Apparently this isn't widely known, but, you can't control how people act/think. There's very few people that are actually such babies they'd uninstall the moment they were picked on by some internet people though.
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Naix	
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That's like getting bullied in real life.  It's going to happen even in the nicest of communities.  At some point, the newbies have to learn to grow a thick skin and our more helpful community members need to work together to make the newbies realize there really is someone out there to help out and those 2-4 jerks out there are a minority.  Carbine shouldn't be required to police the members just because some member choose to not play with certain people. 
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In PvP terms: "Carbine can't be expected to police spawns to prevent spawncamping. People will do it, you can't stop them". Both statements are clearly false and spawncamping can in fact be prevented in spite of player intent without hiring people to police behavior.
 
They don't have to set up the queue finder to put players who haven't ever beaten the content in with a group of veterans that's farming the content for gold medal runs. They do that, but they don't have to.
 
The content finder could easily include a checkbox that says "progression run" and when it's checked, the vote to kick/disband option is off and gear is rallied down to the content's top level. Get through it without some overgeared player being able to carry everyone or go back to the entrance and walk out the door. If you leave, your slot opens up to the next person in the progression run queue.  If the playerbase dies off enough that the queues for it get longer than some threshold time, the option automatically greys out and we're back to where we were. 
 
Will the queues for that be longer? Sure. But it will match up players with each other based on whether they're trying to learn/teach the content or whether they don't want to deal with new players at all. Short waits for crappy player experiences are not a better idea than longer waits for better player experiences.
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In PvP terms: "Carbine can't be expected to police spawns to prevent spawncamping. People will do it, you can't stop them". Both statements are clearly false and spawncamping can in fact be prevented in spite of player intent without hiring people to police behavior.
 
They don't have to set up the queue finder to put players who haven't ever beaten the content in with a group of veterans that's farming the content for gold medal runs. They do that, but they don't have to.
 
The content finder could easily include a checkbox that says "progression run" and when it's checked, the vote to kick/disband option is off and gear is rallied down to the content's top level. Get through it without some overgeared player being able to carry everyone or go back to the entrance and walk out the door. If you leave, your slot opens up to the next person in the progression run queue.  If the playerbase dies off enough that the queues for it get longer than some threshold time, the option automatically greys out and we're back to where we were. 
 
Will the queues for that be longer? Sure. But it will match up players with each other based on whether they're trying to learn/teach the content or whether they don't want to deal with new players at all. Short waits for crappy player experiences are not a better idea than longer waits for better player experiences.
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I don't think overcomplicating the queue system is going to solve an issue that rests squarely with the fact that some people are just jerks.
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Anything so that people don't have to try at the very minimal to take some personal responsibility and at least try not to run off new players who lack a thick skin. 
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I don't think it's an overcomplication when jerks tossing new players under the bus in instanced content have repeatedly been a common recurring complaint in this game since day 1.
I think that if you want to help new players learn the content, you can help them learn it, not carry them through it.
I think that if you don't want to help new players learn the content, you have no business being in the same instance as they are.
 
Sorry, got some data to back that up? I've rarely if ever entered a queue as part of a premade team, and while I don't expect to necessarily progress successfully through content I certainly do hope to do so.
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Technically Speaking.
 
1) If you are queuing up for a dungeon without knowing anything about it, you should probably re-think your steps. Dungeons in this game are not like any other MMO, not even Rifts, and definitely not like WoW's.
 
Go watch a youtube video, read up on bosses on Jabbithole.com or something. Know the fight basics, and then try to do the bare minimum to survive, and learn as you go. It's part of adapting. The people who wrote or recorded anything on youtube or any forum anywhere, have probably done that dungeon a lot to report on mechanics.
 
2) If it was a guild run that you joined, that's why you got booted. They were probably powering through content for Renown or something like that. Not that it excuses them, but honestly, if I have a goal in mind, I do it. And if something is slowing me down then I try to avoid it like the plague.
 
That being said, if I am doing Dungeon runs and pug'ing players, then I have to have _SOME_ sort of considerate behavior regarding the skill level, or lack-of-preparedness level of any unknown players. Not everyone is like that.
 
3) MMO's are not for the weak skinned. The more people (which has been stated many billions of times before), the more toxic the behavior gets. Mainly because if it involves anonymous text lines across borders, no one cares who anyone is/look like/talk like/live like/smell like/date like/etc.... It has the potential to become a comment towards you that is meant to make you feel bad or troll you into making  rage-fist statement back at them.
 
It sounds like this person is someone who wouldn't do very well in some games or zones in some games (Barrens Chat). :(
 
In any event, hopefully you get some sand paper to take out the rough edges, and get some tougher skin before you go into your next MMO if there is one.
 
On a side note, how is it possible that a League of Legends player (Not saying the OP is) comes into this game and says that the game is toxic and they're going back to League?? I saw someone say that last night and I laughed SO HARD! :O	
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I also had a mixed experience with the first dungeon (Protogames Academy).
 
The content itself was awesome but we died a couple times (once on the first boss due to not having enough people interrupt him, once more on the last boss due to someone dying during the fight so we did not have enough damage to finish him off during the last phase).
 
So most of the group seemed like good people. I'm new to the game, I got the impression three others in the group were too. But we had this one guy who would start cussing out the group every time the slightest thing went wrong. It was pretty gross. When we died on the last boss he lobbed one final insult at us and then left the group. We spent a couple minutes figuring out how to queue for a replacement, and downed the boss first try after him leaving.
 
If the entire group had been like that one guy, I'd probably have quit. I mean, it just went f2p, what do you expect? You're going to have some new players in your dungeons and they wont necessarily be 100 percent smooth because of it.	
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I love the people who complain about people not wanting them in groups. As you have your freedom of choice so have others. Who are you to feel entitled to force anyone to take you anywhere. Everybody has the right to chose who he wants to hang out with.
 
One group prefers different company? Find another group.
 
Groups kicking you often because you are unfamiliar with tactics? Go and read about tactics on web before you join.
 
Or better yet, find full group of new players where none knows the tactics. There, problem solved. Or wait, do you wish to get carried? Oh then that's another issue. :)
 
I'm new at WildStar, but I'm a veteran MMO player. I always disliked newbs who wanted to get carried without putting in the effort themselves, taking the easy path. Those are always the ones who also complain the most when someone do not wish to carry them, and then they resort to calling them elitists.
 
So to any newbs out there:
- do not expect to get carried around and do not expect to be tutored by other players.
- you have web, use it to learn about the game, UI, dungeon, tactics, what not.
- someone may be kind to answer some short questions in game but do not take that for granted, it's not players jobs to teach you. They play this to enjoy their time, and they are certainly not obligated in any way to spend it on others.
 
I myself recently started WildStar:
- before I even started I spent hours and hours reading about everything I could find.
- every time I don't know something, i first check the web, then if I can't find the answer I will ask in zone, and I'll be grateful for an answer.
- before I will do dungeons I will familiarize myself with the tactics on web.
- I will never expect anyone to carry me anywhere. Everyone is fully entitled to chose their company and how they spend their time on their own. If some more experienced group does take me somewhere, I will do my best to not be the carried person by knowing the tactics in advance and not being the weight for the group (or reason for repair costs)
 
Unfortunately not everyone is like this, and thus some people like OP will be calling others elitists and rage quitting.
Imho, we are better off if they do. :)
 
EDIT:
Oh yes, among all other MMOs i played, i spent a good deal of time in "The Secret World", so I know about complex dungeons and how it's important to not take noobs with you to the fights.
In TSW interrupts for example should only be used exactly when needed, and only by people who are at turn. 3 interupts and boss gets immune, so if noobs use interrupting attacks when they want, boss gets immune and then he wtfpawns the tank, because he is immune when interupt was really needed. And that's just one of the issues.
 
New people should really spend time to learn the fights themselves with groups of people who are fresh like them, and not expect to get everything handed on a plate. Those veterans were fresh once also, and needed to earn what they have.
I actually prefer difficult dungeon system and that's why I'm looking forward to WS dungeons and raids (I heared they are not easy). I also hope they will not get nerfed until I get there. ;)
			
				
	Edited October 7, 2015 by Gothix	
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The problem is not that random people on the internet are being mean to each other. The problem is that people are queuing to do the same content for completely different reasons that require completely different play strategies. The solution is to separate the players into instances according to the strategy that will fulfill their requirements.
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Perhaps I didn't make it entirely clear and I apologize.
 
If you are concerned with completing content quickly and efficiently (gold medal runs or what have you) then you aren't going to enter the queue alone under the assumption that the random people you get grouped with will be completely competent and capable.  You queue alone when you don't have anyone with you and you're willing to make do trying content with a random folks.
 
It's not necessarily that random folks are/will be terrible but you can't guarantee that the people you get grouped with will be as ready and able as you are.
 
I've spent the better part of 11 years of my life playing WoW and I can tell you that some of the most horrible people I've ever had to endure spending time with are the ones I've gotten into random dungeons with.  It's a mix of people who are rude, inattentive, poor sports, or simply greedy.
 
Making MORE queues won't fix problems that stem from how people act under a guise of anonymity.
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Technically Speaking.
 
1) If you are queuing up for a dungeon without knowing anything about it, you should probably re-think your steps. Dungeons in this game are not like any other MMO, not even Rifts, and definitely not like WoW's.
 
Go watch a youtube video, read up on bosses on Jabbithole.com or something. Know the fight basics, and then try to do the bare minimum to survive, and learn as you go. It's part of adapting. The people who wrote or recorded anything on youtube or any forum anywhere, have probably done that dungeon a lot to report on mechanics.
 
2) If it was a guild run that you joined, that's why you got booted. They were probably powering through content for Renown or something like that. Not that it excuses them, but honestly, if I have a goal in mind, I do it. And if something is slowing me down then I try to avoid it like the plague.
 
That being said, if I am doing Dungeon runs and pug'ing players, then I have to have _SOME_ sort of considerate behavior regarding the skill level, or lack-of-preparedness level of any unknown players. Not everyone is like that.
 
3) MMO's are not for the weak skinned. The more people (which has been stated many billions of times before), the more toxic the behavior gets. Mainly because if it involves anonymous text lines across borders, no one cares who anyone is/look like/talk like/live like/smell like/date like/etc.... It has the potential to become a comment towards you that is meant to make you feel bad or troll you into making  rage-fist statement back at them.
 
It sounds like this person is someone who wouldn't do very well in some games or zones in some games (Barrens Chat). :(
 
In any event, hopefully you get some sand paper to take out the rough edges, and get some tougher skin before you go into your next MMO if there is one.
 
On a side note, how is it possible that a League of Legends player (Not saying the OP is) comes into this game and says that the game is toxic and they're going back to League?? I saw someone say that last night and I laughed SO HARD! :o
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Many of them don't even want to try, chum. Asking irresponsible people to show personal responsibility is exactly what gets us to threads like this one.
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It's better to learn to deal with the occasional circumstance of bad/rude players in a PUG than to make things take longer for everyone.
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Sadly, i've already encountered countless elitist players in Wildstar.
Personally i got no problem with them because i always do my part, so i just ignore them and decline kick votes.
 
So many ppl run around saying they are the "best one in eu/na" whatever, how can everyone be the best? :)
 
Wildstar has so few players for many reasons, the weird elitist players are one of them..
But yeah, those "elite players" probably got kicked/flamed alot while learning the game themselves so they need to let it out on someone.
 
Ofc it's not other peoples job to teach new players the game or even be nice to anyone.
But some players are a real cancer to this game.
 
i wouldn't go so far to uninstall it only because of them though.	
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I love the people who complain about people not wanting them in groups. As you have your freedom of choice so have others. Who are you to feel entitled to force anyone to take you anywhere. Everybody has the right to chose who he wants to hang out with.
 
One group prefers different company? Find another group.
 
Groups kicking you often because you are unfamiliar with tactics? Go and read about tactics on web before you join.
 
Or better yet, find full group of new players where none knows the tactics. There, problem solved. Or wait, do you wish to get carried? Oh then that's another issue. :)
 
I'm new at WildStar, but I'm a veteran MMO player. I always disliked newbs who wanted to get carried without putting in the effort themselves, taking the easy path. Those are always the ones who also complain the most when someone do not wish to carry them, and then they resort to calling them elitists.
 
So to any newbs out there:
- do not expect to get carried around and do not expect to be tutored by other players.
- you have web, use it to learn about the game, UI, dungeon, tactics, what not.
- someone may be kind to answer some short questions in game but do not take that for granted, it's not players jobs to teach you. They play this to enjoy their time, and they are certainly not obligated in any way to spend it on others.
 
I myself recently started WildStar:
- before I even started I spent hours and hours reading about everything I could find.
- every time I don't know something, i first check the web, then if I can't find the answer I will ask in zone, and I'll be grateful for an answer.
- before I will do dungeons I will familiarize myself with the tactics on web.
- I will never expect anyone to carry me anywhere. Everyone is fully entitled to chose their company and how they spend their time on their own. If some more experienced group does take me somewhere, I will do my best to not be the carried person by knowing the tactics in advance and not being the weight for the group (or reason for repair costs)
 
Unfortunately not everyone is like this, and thus some people like OP will be calling others elitists and rage quitting.
Imho, we are better off if they do. :)
 
EDIT:
Oh yes, among all other MMOs i played, i spent a good deal of time in "The Secret World", so I know about complex dungeons and how it's important to not take noobs with you to the fights.
In TSW interrupts for example should only be used exactly when needed, and only by people who are at turn. 3 interupts and boss gets immune, so if noobs use interrupting attacks when they want, boss gets immune and then he wtfpawns the tank, because he is immune when interupt was really needed. And that's just one of the issues.
 
New people should really spend time to learn the fights themselves with groups of people who are fresh like them, and not expect to get everything handed on a plate. Those veterans were fresh once also, and needed to earn what they have.
I actually prefer difficult dungeon system and that's why I'm looking forward to WS dungeons and raids (I heared they are not easy). I also hope they will not get nerfed until I get there. ;)
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Hi all,
 
Saddens me to read some of the replies in here - the OP's probably right about a few things in that respect.....
 
Maybe time to close this one, nothing but rancour is pouring outa this one....
 
OP, if you do decide to come back, take some of the good advice here and find a decent group of friends/friendly guild....take it easy.
 
o/	
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Having players that pitch fits of drama in an effort to garner attention doesn't help the game either.  This thread was started by a person who apparently found the tactical complexity of Protogames Academy too difficult to master.
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It turns out that empty servers have really long queues, so I actually think that forcing people to put up with bullies or do something else ends up taking a lot longer than separating out people who are still learning from people who haven't.
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Don't most people get the general idea that segregation is bad?  Like real bad?
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I don't think they get it. 
 
And yes, this thread should be closed.  The OP really was looking to get attention based on how they went to the forums and how they handled the situation and nobody here seems to agree with each other so it'll just keep going back and forth until it gets closed anyway.
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Or better yet, find full group of new players where none knows the tactics. There, problem solved.
{snip}
New people should really spend time to learn the fights themselves with groups of people who are fresh like them, and not expect to get everything handed on a plate.
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By remarkable coincidence, I've been advocating a mechanism to change the queues to help accomplish exactly that. Shall I sign you on as a supporter?
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This thread has definitely reached completely pointless levels, for sure.
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You do seem to have run out of reasonable-sounding rationales for forcing bullies and new players into the same instances, but I don't consider this thread to be pointless at all. In fact, I'm glad we're all talking about community behaviors that several people in this thread have personally experienced and found very off-putting.
 
Seems like a very sensible way to hash out some solutions that will work better than stuff that was tried back at launch, like "Get a thicker skin" and "Go watch the Youtube video" and "Go play Hello Kitty Adventures".
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You do seem to have run out of reasonable-sounding rationales for forcing bullies and new players into the same instances, but I don't consider this thread to be pointless at all. In fact, I'm glad we're all talking about community behaviors that several people in this thread have personally experienced and found very off-putting.
 
Seems like a very sensible way to hash out some solutions that will work better than stuff that was tried back at launch, like "Get a thicker skin" and "Go watch the Youtube video" and "Go play Hello Kitty Adventures".
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By remarkable coincidence, I've been advocating a mechanism to change the queues to help accomplish exactly that. Shall I sign you on as a supporter?
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  The fact alone that you (and others) actually agree with him makes me very sad. This very thread shows how overly toxic and hateful this community has become, that rather than give people the benefit of the doubt, rather than help people blossom in a community, people will shove newbies away so they can play on their own again. I still cannot grasp how people can put their own self-righteousness and pride over the well-being of the community and thereby the whole game.
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away with you.  you speak with logic and reason.  you are not allowed back on these forums.
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Then he needs to practice it more to make it easier right, not to be kicked out -_-. 
 
If you could practise boss fights out side of a group , it would be great but that's not possible now is it ??
 
He is after all progressing as a player not farming content, if you really want to farm a dungeon then make your own ORGANZIED group with voice coms   and not go along with RANDOM ppl in the queue to expect perfect executions
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			How does it make any sense to stop playing an awesome game 'couse you met one or two bad apples?  Just join a guild with nice people, done.  Just not ours, you're way too negative to run with us :)  GL	
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This very thread shows how overly toxic and hateful this community has become
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There's no evidence that what he said happened actually happened as the text in the image happens literally every time a group disbands on leaves.  Even in the event that he WAS unjustly kicked his candor in his post lends no credence to him being a "true" victim in this regard.
This isn't a case of people ganging up on someone that was maligned by players, this is a case of someone trying to garner attention by being melodramatic and getting sassed about it.
I sincerely doubt that anyone that has posted in this thread would ACTUALLY condone the sort of thing that purportedly happened to the OP.
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The problem will that is how you will separate people correctly - by trusting them? :)
 
Newb queues for dungeon: "Hello there, says the system, are you a pro player or a newb?" "Well ofc. I'm a pro player, newb says, and the system puts him to pro group -- together with 3 other newbs who claimed the same, lol" :D
 
Or will system check if he already has the 50 main? They might increase the accuracy but still wouldn't fix the issue completely. That guy with 50 main could be a noob who never did dungeons, or he could have bought account. While maybe some pro player just used new account and is still pro.
 
Queue segregation idea might be ok in some situations, but it's very hard to correctly implement.
But then again, pro players have many friends in game so it's not hard to create your own premade, i hope. :)
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If it's not OK, stop acting like we should all stop talking and look the other way.
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Those are fair points, but you're assuming that the big problem is noobs looking to hitch a ride off of experts. That certainly doesn't match the complaints I've seen on these forums. I've seen lots of threads like this one, where new players get chewed out for not having mastered the content before they even stepped into it. Not exactly the same problem, is it.
 
But either way, I have good news. What I was proposing actually solves that issue.
 
If you haven't completed the dungeon yet at the level you're playing it, the "progression run" flag is on by default. You can choose to turn it off if you already know the instance from an alt, and it will automatically disable if the queue times exceed some threshold (30 minutes? An hour?). A tooltip reading "Progression runs are for players who are still learning this content. If you haven't done this content yet at this level, this will let you group with others who are also still learning!" would help make sure that players who want to learn it know to leave the flag on.
 
If you don't turn on the "progression run" flag, nothing changes from now and you retain the right to kick other players or vote disband if they aren't up to your exacting standards. You just have a lot fewer noobs around that would ever make you need to use it.
 
If the "progression run" flag is on, the ability to votekick players or instantly disband the team is disabled. People are there to learn the fights, not race through it or flip it if it's not the instance that's fastest and easiest. If you all give up and want to leave, the exit is back at the start.
 
I suppose that trolls could sign up for progression runs and refuse to do anything useful, knowing that they couldn't be kicked. But on the plus side, people being trolled in this way would have lots of time to screenshot the troll and report them to get those accounts closed. I'd imagine that a few banned accounts would cut back on trolling real quick.  ^_^
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If it's not OK, stop acting like we should all stop talking and look the other way.
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After reading this thread, I decided to the first adventure as a healer without my two friends. I explained to the group that it is my first time. 
No one said anything, but the tank marked myself and herself with icons above our heads. I really didn't understand what was going on through the adventure.
I just followed the tank wherever she went. There was a part where I kept getting stuck in a light and was taking damage from guns, so tried to run out of it and couldn't seem to. 
I didn't die. But the group lacked abit of healing from it. Panicked a lot. The tank's health dropped really low. All the group was spread out. I tried to heal everyone by running around everywhere but wasn't working. So stuck to the tank and closer group member for healing. 
 
The other 2 group members died. But kept the tank myself and another dps alive. We razzed them and went into a house. 
 
The tank has obviously done this adventure quite a lot. She took a moment to give me some advise about not running everywhere with heals. She wasn't angry. Just trying to help. I apolagized and mentioned that I panicked when everyone split up. She was nice about it. 
 
My hands were shaking at the start of the adventure. So nervous. But after she took the time to give me a breather and give some advise. I calmed down a lot. Still alittle nervous for the rest of the way. Mainly because I didn't understand what was going on most of them time. But otherwise I had fun. 
 
Just thought I would share my first experience in a pug group. Myself and 2 other dps were new. But the other two never spoke up and said anything, maybe they were worried about getting kicked if they say anything newbie? I should of probably spoken to them and asked them to stick near me more. I'm sure I'll learn to communicate more once I understand what is going on.	
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  If couple of morons on your way can make you uninstall game just by kicking you from dungeon group, probably this game is not for you. This game, cupcake, hits hard. You need bawls of steel and iron spoon to make a stew here. Try again, enjoy game, next time you will get good people in group. Some are elitist jerks, some are love noobs. I spent hour couple days ago, just explaining fresh comers what is what in this world.
  Eventually you will find your guild or circle and have hardcore fun with new friends.	
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I will say something.
My first dungeon was Protostar Academy, of course, it took 74 minutes to beat it, most of the time was because we needed to replace players who left, but no one was kicked, except one because he went offline for like 5 minutes, the other part we were wiping, because of lack of interrupts or DPS (since the final boss you need to burn his health before he uses his "self destruct").
 
As soon people learned that they needed to use interrupt when the boss uses his "fire hands" (I don't remember the skill name) and to use everything to burn it in the end before he wipes everyone, the fight ended well.
 
@Edit
 
I don't want to do this, but can someone help me with a question?
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/138762-question-about-switch-stances/
 
Thank you.
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by BakuDM	
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Why is the burden of proof on him?
 
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Why is the burden of proof on him?
Are you claiming this kind of thing doesn't happen in this game often? A number of other people in this thread have reported similar experiences. 
Do you have evidence that what he says happened didn't happen? 
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[cut]
 
Groups kicking you often because you are unfamiliar with tactics? Go and read about tactics on web before you join.
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Totally against this, even in raids. Sounds as second job. Doesn't mean I want group to carry me. I want watch and learn, experience all this experience (huh?)
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There isn't many known resources for this type of thing anyway, but understand that trying to educate yourself about boss fights before raid (same with dungeons) is common practice in almost all MMOs and is expected by many, even guilds.  Going in with at least the basic understanding of the fight is usually expected and raid leaders will sometimes help fill in the gaps if necessary.
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You can't make someone stop being a jerk by segregating the queues.
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You do realize that " basic understanding"  comes from people actually going in and writing it down or videoblogging about it right? Did you know, games are meant to be experienced? that doesn't mean everyone wants to go and watch others do said content just because a few internet hero's  want to be pricks and save 2-5 minutes from a dungeon or raid and not have the patience for others to learn by themself. I don't watch video's the first time I do content, because I want to experience and learn tactics myself.
 
Coming from many MMO's and online play from the moment we still used the slowest possible dial up modems to connect, ive seen the gaming community grow from being very acceptable to down right toxic over the last couple of years. It is rather a shame.
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{| class="blockquote"
I was merely stating what is the common expectation.  If you don't like that, take it up with the MMO community, not me.  It's a reality.  Try joining any guild who is about raiding in this game and joining a raid without doing any sort of research.  Personal experience, buddy.
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Meh meh meh, whatever, if someone can't survive an elitist player MMO isn't your type of game.
No matter where, how or when, there will be elitist players and I didn't find a single one yet.
 
You don't need to screw up for everyone because if a minority, if you Queue as DPS you get a average of 30 minutes in Queue, if you segregate the Queue, it will be even more.	
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{| class="blockquote"
You don't need to screw up for everyone because if a minority, if you Queue as DPS you get a average of 30 minutes in Queue, if you segregate the Queue, it will be even more.
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I'm only lvl16 in WIldstar at the moment as I've not had much opportunity to play, but I've been with WoW and GW2 since their launch and dabbled in some other MMOs like WAR and Champions Online, so I'm well versed in interrupts, crowd controls, not standing in fire and dodging attacks. What I'm not versed in is how Wildstar handles those particular mechanics and so far I feel like the game itself has done a poor job of teaching.
 
I think the Protostar Academy and the first few levels need a bit of redoing to make the introduction of Wildstar mechanics a little smoother, especially the first boss. You need to interrupt this guy or else he wipes the group, when does the game tell you this? About 5 seconds before the fight started, only one person in my group had an iterrupt active and we were killed. My interrupt had long since come off my bar as in the 10 levels leading to this absolutely nothing had needed to be interrupted before, it was all telegraphs and dodging out of red up to now so it had been replaced by a more useful ability to me. Immediately dropping a boss that will one-shot you for not having a specific kind of ability ready with no prior warning in the training dungeon seems silly, I would have had some elite style mobs beforehand that do a similar attack, but only drop you to very very low health if you don't interrupt them, this gets across the idea that you'll need an interrupt to survive the dungeon, but the fight is still winnable if you're unprepared that first time and you're more likely to be ready come boss time. WoW does this very often in its dungeons and raids, giving weaker versions of boss abilities to regular mobs so you get some exposure to them beforehand in a less dangerous or critical situation.
 
This was also the first time interrupt armor and the fact that interrupted enemies take more damage had been brought up, I'd fought a couple of elite enemies and tough solo fights out in the world by now so it seemed odd to introduce it this late in the middle of a boss fight that could instantly kill us. Another first was being disarmed, nothing out in the world had disarmed me at this point, but having being disarmed in WoW plenty of times I knew what it meant when I could no longer see my weapon in my hands, what I didn't know is why it wasn't wearing off or how to get rid of the effect. Luckily someone else in the group noticed me not attacking and quickly informed me I had to actually pick up my weapon, it had been knocked off pretty far behind me, off-screen where I hadn't been able to notice it. Again, in the middle of a boss fight with a one-shot wiping ability in the training dungeon seems like a poor choice of where to introduce this mechanic.
 
My group was mostly made of new players and one or two veterans so nobody ragequit or yelled at one another, so we were able to take a moment to go over our abilities and prepare for the next go. We didn't wipe again, I learned some things, but it felt like a cheap and sour experience for someone just starting out in the game and I'm hoping I don't get sprung with too many other surprises like that.
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by Karrakazul	
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Most of the people who wants to make Speed Dungeon or Golden Dungeon don't use Random people from Queue, they don't even Join Queue alone, they look for people in the chat to make a premade group before join the Dungeon Queue.
I saw a lot of those today.	
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{| class="blockquote"
My group was mostly made of new players and one or two veterans so nobody ragequit or yelled at one another, so we were able to take a moment to go over our abilities and prepare for the next go. We didn't wipe again, I learned some things, but it felt like a cheap and sour experience for someone just starting out in the game and I'm hoping I don't get sprung with too many other surprises like that.
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			Protostar Games should be mandatory before entering any 20+ instance.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Protostar Games should be mandatory before entering any 20+ instance.
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			So you are going to let strangers make you quit? Do what you want but you are letting them push you around over a video game? Who cares!  I guess you were not having fun to begin with and looked for the first excuse you could find to leave. Too bad. Sorry to see you go.	
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Just to help condense his two threads. This was his reply to me after I posted my pug stl kill on my baby engineer tank.
 
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah you play for long time, how about teh newcomers who have to wipe and wipe
To the contrary beliefes, some of us live outside this game and need to put food on the table...so we dont have HOURS to wipe while we learn the game.
I find that 1 hour+ to run a  dungeon of 3 bosses is just ridiculous, sorry but this must be looked at ASAP
We can have hard content in end game, but in the start of it  things shouldnt be this way !
Again, all the pros whom have played this  from long ago may not have a issue while making a new smurf and running said dungeons with him, but for new players like me who are still learning the basic of the rotations, THE level 20 and 25 dungeons are not even brutal, are NOT FUN either.
This must be fixed, and i wont let the thread die either
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{| class="blockquote"
Protostar Games should be mandatory before entering any 20+ instance.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm sure this will come as a surprise, but not everyone playing the game aspires to be a raider. Only part of the community shares your views, even if they are a part that is very strongly represented on the forums.
 
 :lol: Really? Your definition of "not being a jerk" is "stop posting things I don't agree with"?
 
Sorry, I will continue to have--and respectfully express--opinions independent of whether you agree with them or not.
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{| class="blockquote"
After reading this thread, I decided to the first adventure as a healer without my two friends. I explained to the group that it is my first time.
No one said anything, but the tank marked myself and herself with icons above our heads. I really didn't understand what was going on through the adventure.
I just followed the tank wherever she went. There was a part where I kept getting stuck in a light and was taking damage from guns, so tried to run out of it and couldn't seem to.
I didn't die. But the group lacked abit of healing from it. Panicked a lot. The tank's health dropped really low. All the group was spread out. I tried to heal everyone by running around everywhere but wasn't working. So stuck to the tank and closer group member for healing.
 
The other 2 group members died. But kept the tank myself and another dps alive. We razzed them and went into a house.
 
The tank has obviously done this adventure quite a lot. She took a moment to give me some advise about not running everywhere with heals. She wasn't angry. Just trying to help. I apolagized and mentioned that I panicked when everyone split up. She was nice about it.
 
My hands were shaking at the start of the adventure. So nervous. But after she took the time to give me a breather and give some advise. I calmed down a lot. Still alittle nervous for the rest of the way. Mainly because I didn't understand what was going on most of them time. But otherwise I had fun.
 
Just thought I would share my first experience in a pug group. Myself and 2 other dps were new. But the other two never spoke up and said anything, maybe they were worried about getting kicked if they say anything newbie? I should of probably spoken to them and asked them to stick near me more. I'm sure I'll learn to communicate more once I understand what is going on.
----
			There's a saying that has more wisdom in it that it's given credit for - "Shit happens." - which could be talking about the situation or actual people and yes, you are right, there are quite a few shit people playing this game, just like any other game. But I didn't bring up this saying to call elitists shit (which they are), but to tell you that you are also meant to move on and forget about it. Chances are it will happen again cause there's no shortage of shit on the internet. But I'm sorry you decided to let them beat you from the first. Shame.	
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Not to say that you shouldn't listen to well meant advice, but...
 
Even as a seasoned player in another game, I very very rarely got yelled at for not being able to keep up the group. At that point I would usually do double or triple the healing normally needed, being stunned or asleep because the dps didn't interrupt or people bodypulling the whole room.
 
It's knowing when you have to learn and when they are just being 12 yo spoiled brats that you would send off to their room (without the computer, obviously) for a month if they were your kids. I'm definitely a noob in this game; if someone would yell at me now, I wouldn't take it as an offense. The first thing I would do is check out where I could have gone wrong and ask questions about it. Ask someone who's yelling at you questions? Yes, you'll be surprised how quickly their anger dies down when they see you are willing to learn, or when they realize you really are new.
 
I've seen it from the other side as well: people doing obviously stupid things. Yes, obvious to someone who's been playing a game for years, not to someone who's still figuring out the UI.
 
If both sides would listen to each other, there wouldn't be a problem. There are no two sides, there's only the group.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Protostar Games should be mandatory before entering any 20+ instance.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm only lvl16 in WIldstar at the moment as I've not had much opportunity to play, but I've been with WoW and GW2 since their launch and dabbled in some other MMOs like WAR and Champions Online, so I'm well versed in interrupts, crowd controls, not standing in fire and dodging attacks. What I'm not versed in is how Wildstar handles those particular mechanics and so far I feel like the game itself has done a poor job of teaching.
 
I think the Protostar Academy and the first few levels need a bit of redoing to make the introduction of Wildstar mechanics a little smoother, especially the first boss. You need to interrupt this guy or else he wipes the group, when does the game tell you this? About 5 seconds before the fight started, only one person in my group had an iterrupt active and we were killed. My interrupt had long since come off my bar as in the 10 levels leading to this absolutely nothing had needed to be interrupted before, it was all telegraphs and dodging out of red up to now so it had been replaced by a more useful ability to me. Immediately dropping a boss that will one-shot you for not having a specific kind of ability ready with no prior warning in the training dungeon seems silly, I would have had some elite style mobs beforehand that do a similar attack, but only drop you to very very low health if you don't interrupt them, this gets across the idea that you'll need an interrupt to survive the dungeon, but the fight is still winnable if you're unprepared that first time and you're more likely to be ready come boss time. WoW does this very often in its dungeons and raids, giving weaker versions of boss abilities to regular mobs so you get some exposure to them beforehand in a less dangerous or critical situation.
 
This was also the first time interrupt armor and the fact that interrupted enemies take more damage had been brought up, I'd fought a couple of elite enemies and tough solo fights out in the world by now so it seemed odd to introduce it this late in the middle of a boss fight that could instantly kill us. Another first was being disarmed, nothing out in the world had disarmed me at this point, but having being disarmed in WoW plenty of times I knew what it meant when I could no longer see my weapon in my hands, what I didn't know is why it wasn't wearing off or how to get rid of the effect. Luckily someone else in the group noticed me not attacking and quickly informed me I had to actually pick up my weapon, it had been knocked off pretty far behind me, off-screen where I hadn't been able to notice it. Again, in the middle of a boss fight with a one-shot wiping ability in the training dungeon seems like a poor choice of where to introduce this mechanic.
 
My group was mostly made of new players and one or two veterans so nobody ragequit or yelled at one another, so we were able to take a moment to go over our abilities and prepare for the next go. We didn't wipe again, I learned some things, but it felt like a cheap and sour experience for someone just starting out in the game and I'm hoping I don't get sprung with too many other surprises like that.
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			Bye Felicia.	
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As someone who had a 50 long before F2P, the only person I've agreed to kick since the transition was an esper who "only queued as a healer to get a group fast" and then played as a DPS until the tank refused to go further after nearly dying multiple times and our slinger stepped in to cover the role.
 
Sounds like you got one of those special poopsocks with no social graces. Those do exist. Don't let them get you down. 
 
 
EDIT: ...That's assuming we're actually getting the whole story, of course.
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by Ratstomper	
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I see a lot of talk of "veteran players should be understanding of new players" and "new players should educate themselves".  Both are true.  As a new player, I read 1 guide and watched 2 videos on STL, even though I'm still lvl 19 and can't go there.  Why?  Because this isn't a new game where everyone is as clueless as I am on encounters in instances.  As such, I DON'T want to be the guy who makes it a hassle for everyone, myself included, by being the one person who doesn't know what they're doing.  And I also realize it's not the other 4 players' job or desire to spend their time educating me when the information is there for me to find on my own time, not theirs.  Not to mention a video guide is much better for learning content because you get to actually see the proper execution as opposed to a hastily-worded explanation that may or may not be informative enough.
 
That said, since I have taken the initiative to avoid such a situation, any veteran players I group with I would expect to have a little patience.  My gameplay will show that I at least have an idea what to do, but I may make a tactical error.  I expect to not be raged at if for the first time ever in an enounter I happen to make a mistake.  So far, I've executed mechanics just fine, but people do make mistakes now and then.
 
That is what this all boils down to:  New players need to be responsible for not being a liability, and vets need to be responsible for having a reasonable amount of patience with new players.  So far, I have encountered no problems in any group content nor encountered any rude or hostile players, and have participated several times in all group content that is available to me thus far, PvP included.
 
As far as the PA tutorial goes, I think it did a wonderful job of outlining key mechanics.  They told me to interrupt, when, why and how IA works.  They told me I've been disarmed and to go pick up my weapon.  They told me to help others break their tether, but those last 2 points were common sense and needed no explanation.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Just to help condense his two threads. This was his reply to me after I posted my pug stl kill on my baby engineer tank.
 
 
I'd like to state, each time I pull I ask in instance and in say if anyone needs a run down.
 
Wait 10 seconds, no reply , I pull.
 
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I feel the OP has every right to complain.  It's a game he wants to enjoy and believe it or not people hang themselves for trivial things like that, it's no joking matter. The higher levels are complete asses.  I was on today, I have prior MMO experience, raiding experience etc, but Wild Star is a completely different game with different stats, classes and mechanics.  I asked a simple question of when the amp resets are going to cost 50G because i'd like to avoid having to pay that much if i made a mistake in my page.  I also asked which was better to run a tank engie or dps engie.  They said i could do both and i was like yes but i don't want to pay for an extra set of armor.  At first there were no responses, but a minute later these guys started flaming 50g at 50 cap isn't a lot of money, your question is moronic and their should be no reason for me to answer it.  Is this your first MMO, you do know that you have multiple LAS pages, you must be a cry baby who just wants people to play for you instead of learning it yourself.  I responded i actually find most valuable information on the game from forums and in game, I didn't ask for some discriminating comment from you i asked a simple question.  I come from MMO's where you have to make your stats perfect or else you have to pay real money to reset them, or can't even reset them at all.  Even if 50g isn't hard to make at high level i still want to avoid spending that money.  They continued to call me some cry baby and talk a bout how bad i was.  I simply handled my situation by reporting them and putting them on my block list, but not everyone likes to do that.  Sorry you had such a bad experience man, if you want to come back you can add Dark GT and we can play together.
 
This guy has every right to quit the game, and it's a smart decision, because when this game shuts down after going f2p, because of the community; we'll see where the fingers get pointed.  
People think this is funny but i played during the beta and stopped when it was p2p, I come back now and i saw lots of threads talking about the game going free to play because of toxic community end game causing players to leave, the game being hard enough, and it wasn't generating money.  This is a perfect example for why the game is going to shut down on its last limb.	
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{| class="blockquote"
This guy has every right to quit the game, and it's a smart decision, because when this game shuts down after going f2p, because of the community; we'll see where the fingers get pointed.  
People think this is funny but i played during the beta and stopped when it was p2p, I come back now and i saw lots of threads talking about the game going free to play because of toxic community end game causing players to leave, the game being hard enough, and it wasn't generating money.  This is a perfect example for why the game is going to shut down on its last limb.
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{| class="blockquote"
As someone who had a 50 long before F2P, the only person I've agreed to kick since the transition was an esper who "only queued as a healer to get a group fast" and then played as a DPS until the tank refused to go further after nearly dying multiple times and our slinger stepped in to cover the role.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
I kick people like that before the run starts. I see it in quite a few games. The only time I don't see it is when a game refuses to let you join an instance on anything other than the spec you signed up as or let you change once inside.
 
I like that.
 
Too many people join as healer or tank and then switch once queue pops or they zone in. Those i've always kicked. They are no use to our group and I don't have the patience to deal with them.
 
Much like those that play DPS but join a queue with a tank or healer to get a faster pop. As soon as they zone in the tank/healer leaves which means we're still waiting for that tank or healer. I kick those too for pissing me off.
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{| class="blockquote"
If you know you're doing something you shouldn't be doing then you shouldn't be doing it.
 
Don't tank if you aren't going to be serious about it.  Don't queue as tank if you're just a dps with a secondary LAS with tank abilities and nothing else.  Put up with DPS queues or be a real tank.
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{| class="blockquote"
I tank in dps gear (because the vets have become roflstomping grounds now) ... would you kick me too 
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{| class="blockquote"
There are going to be jerks anywhere you go and the only thing you can do about it is learn to deal with it.  Sometimes this means reporting and/or ignoring them.  Sometimes this means taking your time and business elsewhere.  It's up to the individual to decide what they want to do and then do it.
 
This particular circumstance with the original poster of this thread comes across as someone being melodramatic and providing some inconclusive proof about how they got 'kicked' from a group by 'elitists' and after that happened a couple times they decided not only to stop playing the game but to also post a thread about how they stopped.  People razzed him for it not because they thing he's some sort of wussy baby but because his attitude and demeanor is not that of someone who was wronged but of someone who simply wants attention.
 
People need to realize that there's effectively a 'silent majority' of folks that aren't liable to ever mistreat another player without a damn good reason (such as the player in question is harassing people, being a jerk, that kind of thing) and that threads like this that try to paint the community as a whole as a big gaggle of self-important jerks are just as damaging if not moreso than the actual jerks themselves.  If enough people start crying doom and gloom about the game instead of just trying to make things better in their own way it's only going to lead to the game itself being doomed.
 
A game shouldn't be doomed because some people are stirring up melodrama over how they can't cope with the fact that sometimes people are jerks.  A game should be doomed when the majority of the players playing it become inherently toxic to outsiders.
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To be fair, I started WS not oo long ago. I have been playing it before F2P but I was playing. People uh... 80% of what I met were willing to drag me through or eplain dungeons and fights to me. The other 20% laughed and called me a n00b for how I was playing. I'm an FF15 vet, I'm used to the AoE's, I'm an EQ 2000 vet and used to raid mechanics. The issue is that when a game jumps to F2P, all the F2P players think that they're the best. Well, King shits aren't, and they limit the fun other players are having. Try getting some friends... it works best for most. Hell, I'll be your friend... and I think I'm cute... no.... yeah... ok... I look like a troll but a troll that loves you, physically... baby...
 
(I'm not even editing this more... I meant other shit.. *cupcake* your *cupcake*ing cupcakes) thats who I reallty am.
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by Hydrangea	
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I have to agree with soo many comments here, there are people who just do it for kicks, other just do it for trolls. If your gave up already, Troll *elitest* Wins!, you wanna be a victum all your life, then every MMORPG out there is in your Elitest List from 2015 to 2050. I suggest you get over it and find ppl that you can make friends with, someone was really nice enough to offer you a friendship and you told em to bugger off.
 
Get Over It..	
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{| class="blockquote"
no i tank in full dps ... ds dps gear and las ... thats really all you need for most bosses... there is nothing ing Scullcano for example thats does more than 10 k damage... (obviously and without mention i am doing this in tank stance)
 
If i perform my tank role, almost double the average dps of the group, and am fine with threat and survivability then what is the problem? are you expecting to die and want me to solo the boss for you after too?
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{| class="blockquote"
If you're going to do something you should do it well.  The mentality of 'screw it, I can half ass this' is dangerous to foster.
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{| class="blockquote"
If you're going to do something you should do it well.  The mentality of 'screw it, I can half ass this' is dangerous to foster.
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{| class="blockquote"
If dps is your big concern then why don't you just go full dps and show those scrubs how a real man kills virtual enemies.
 
Seriously, you really shouldn't be tanking in dps gear.  That's just not a good thing to condone.  If you can out-dps the dps you run with then DPS LIKE THE WIND, MAN.  Don't fake tank.
 
Hell, I've tanked bosses with my esper on pulls where the tank wound up dying...but you don't see me proclaiming myself kind shit on tank mountain over it.
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{| class="blockquote"
biggest problem right now is people going in with dps of 1.2k (and thinking they are gods). If i do not kick them then thats the only real option
 
Going as full tank and then spending 30 minutes soloing each boss is not my thing really when i can nuke down the bosses before anyone has a chance to die instead
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{| class="blockquote"
If you know you're doing something you shouldn't be doing then you shouldn't be doing it.
 
Don't tank if you aren't going to be serious about it.  Don't queue as tank if you're just a dps with a secondary LAS with tank abilities and nothing else.  Put up with DPS queues or be a real tank.
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{| class="blockquote"
completing the thing is my big concern... dps meters are for the people with small willies that need to see a big number in video games (or buy sports cars or need massive fps) If we cannot complete an instance when i am going as tank what do u think need to be done?
 
rage at them leave and disband? or change the way  play and make it work? someone seems to be an elitist here
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{| class="blockquote"
ofc completing the thing is important ... did you know that stormtalon has a dps check of group dps at 10k? that means that being under that point no matter how godly tank you are you will die to him. If i can push him to phase 2 where he becomes *cupcake* easy as he spends have the fight doing nothing anyway then why would i not .... 
 
 
Really for stl after the 1st boss you dont even need healing anymore ... going 5 dps or 4 dps 1 tank is better (as long as you are competent)
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{| class="blockquote"
It is not elitist to expect people to perform the roles the choose in the way they are meant to be performed.
 
Don't talk about how completing the thing is important for you when you JUST said that you dps better tanking the thing in your dps gear than the dps you wind up running with.
 
Go full dps or go full tank.  If you can't trust strangers to have basic competence an acceptable amount of the time you shouldn't queue with random people.
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{| class="blockquote"
#1 I thought you said you wanted to leave? Why start a new thread?
First you cry about dungeons being too hard, then you cry about people kicking you. 
Maybe there is something you dont tell us. There is always 2 sides
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/138092-ner-flow-level-dungeons/page-2
 
What about listening to some of the advices, instead of making empty threats and start a new forum post in a different section?
 
If you are ever going to start on another mmo again, stop being such a cry baby.
 
Dont let the door hit you on your way out...
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{| class="blockquote"
I tank in dps gear (because the vets have become roflstomping grounds now) ... would you kick me too 
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{| class="blockquote"
when this game shuts down after going f2p, because of the community; we'll see where the fingers get pointed.
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			Just throwing this out there. Was he even kicked? Ran dungeons a few times with guildies, and after killing a boss we were all kicked out with the same message. If you are in a pug with strangers you wouldn't know if they were also kicked.	
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Was he/she kicked before it started or after it was complete or during? What Server was it on?
 
Possible Dungeon Bug
Possible Lag Out
Or the Group was laging so bad they all got DC'd.
 
So many possibles..	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't think I'm remembering this wrong but I'm pretty sure that you're told before the first fight actually starts about the interrupt.  You say yourself that you're well-versed with interrupt mechanics but you decided to completely remove your ability to interrupt from your bar?  I can understand not running into anything up to the point of Protogames Academy without seeing anything that NEEDS to be interrupted but if you're actually experienced with MMOs you should know that being able to interrupt things is super important.  Even if I'm wrong about the game explicitly telling you to interrupt I'm pretty sure anyone with a good amount of general MMO experience would hit upon the concept of 'boss is casting a thing that sounds bad, maybe interrupt boss' and through paying attention be able to see what happens with interrupt armor.  I don't think the first fight is really complicated enough to merit a more direct explanation, but that's my personal view there.
 
I'd admit that disarm is certainly different here, but one could also argue that the visible lack of a weapon in your hands combined with the little beam leading to your weapon might lead you to think of running where this new line leads you instead of assuming the debuff with no timer on you will run out.  Again, that's just how I feel about it.
 
Protogames Academy is there to help you learn how fight mechanics work and sometimes the best way to learn is a somewhat punishing method.  If you can't or won't adjust to these things, and potentially cope with a wipe or two in the process, figuring things out then perhaps this game isn't for you.  If you need to have everything in the training dungeon spelled out for you in order to do it then how will you deal with later dungeons where there aren't explanations of mechanics beforehand?  You can't rely on the game to spoon feed you every piece of information on how to play...on some level you need to seize the reigns with the basics you've been taught and adapt or die.
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i rarely do public groups when doing dungeons or any other group content. however i do try my best to help out people that needs it or are just curious as to what a full dungeon looks like. last night i helped out 2 guildies by carrying them through stormtalon (asked beforehand if they were okay with me not rallying to thier level) and i explained the tactics on each boss as we got to them despite the fact that we didnt actually need to use any tactics in the first place.
but it helped them stay alive while also feeling like they were actually helping out (wich they were) shure it might not be as fun as running it with a full and properly setup group but when the rest of the guild is raiding its hard to get a good tank and healer without pugging :P
 
my point is that you shud get into a guild and have them run the dungeons with you while they explain tactics.
pugging groups tend to end badly in my experience but i think you were kicked for a reason rather than kicked at random for asking about tactics. when i used to pug the dungeons over a year ago the ones that knew the tactics used to ask if everyone knew what to do, then explain it to those that didnt have a clue.
 
sorry about the wall of text and have a nice day.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think the Protostar Academy and the first few levels need a bit of redoing to make the introduction of Wildstar mechanics a little smoother, especially the first boss. You need to interrupt this guy or else he wipes the group, when does the game tell you this? About 5 seconds before the fight started, only one person in my group had an iterrupt active and we were killed.
 
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			 -.-
			
				
	Edited October 8, 2015 by Evonity	
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