143378-add-a-proper-lfr-and-lfg-tool-page-3

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/pizza was the best  group command ever
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
			
				
	Edited October 17, 2015 by Cubical	
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			How exactly DID  EQ2 handle group content?  I never played past the first month. That game was so dull I couldn't handle it. 	
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To be fair, I believe the implementation of the raid finder either coincided with or followed the dungeon journal, which also provided information on raid bosses.  It covered what happens during each phase, when a new phase is triggered, and what abilities specific roles needed to look out for.  The tools were readily available (assuming I am not wrong) for people to use to acclimate themselves to fight mechanics and various need-to-knows.
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How exactly DID  EQ2 handle group content?  I never played past the first month. That game was so dull I couldn't handle it. 
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everquest 2 has system like final fantasy xi but nobody used it and they spam group chat like they do in wildstar and nobody reads those either.
 
when all they have to do is bring up search and click invite. or  look for somebody with an icon walking by.
 
 
			
				
	Edited October 17, 2015 by Cubical	
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As long as they look at those trends and seek to make better versions of them.  If they simply cut and paste, well.....that's exactly what got them into this mess in the first place. 
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Blizzard have been doing this for years, with all of their games. As it happens most of the features they add are just refined versions of things present in older games, infact you can bet that if a feature is worth adding, it will almost always end up in their game. They're adding double jump (WildStar) albeit in a more limited form and seperating PvP from PvE (Gw2) for their next xpac.
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the thing is carbine missed the opportunity. its to late to add anything now. people are leaving right and left again and this time they won't come back. i got burned twice. i played at launch then lost interest about a week in at max level due to not being able to get anything done.  i came back for f2p hoping they made the game a little bit more casual friendly. they didn't. the game feels exactly the same as at launch to me. 
 
anyway im out and back to eve online o/ 	
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the thing is carbine missed the opportunity. its to late to add anything now. people are leaving right and left again and this time they won't come back. i got burned twice. i played at launch then lost interest about a week in at max level due to not being able to get anything done.  i came back for f2p hoping they made the game a little bit more casual friendly. they didn't. the game feels exactly the same as at launch to me. 
 
anyway im out and back to eve online o/ 
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A lot of people seem to forget that a lot of the time good things come about by way of people building upon something that came before.
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While, yes, you should try and go "hey lets take things that work in another games" it doesn't always translate well at all.  Take jumping puzzles and apexis in WoW.  No one liked either, jumping is horrid in wow and platforming is annoying.  You don't have to look far to see how much people hate apexis.  Both things that reek of GW2. (apexis bars fill up in just the same way gw2 "questing" works).
 
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Nice to see these forums are still the gift that keeps on giving after the transition haha
 
Reccomendation.
 
More of what A Realm Reborn does(Actually, Linkshell are already here in the form of Circles). You can basically create a pug channel/group.
 
Less of what WoW does with LFR. They have even recognized that it was a bad idea.
 
They should imo start doing Multi-difficulty raids.
 
But what do I know....*winks*
			
				
	Edited October 17, 2015 by Balf	
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/pizza was the best  group command ever
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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the thing is carbine missed the opportunity. its to late to add anything now. people are leaving right and left again and this time they won't come back. i got burned twice. i played at launch then lost interest about a week in at max level due to not being able to get anything done.  i came back for f2p hoping they made the game a little bit more casual friendly. they didn't. the game feels exactly the same as at launch to me. 
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Reccomendation.
 
More of what A Realm Reborn does(Actually, Linkshell are already here in the form of Circles). You can basically create a pug channel/group.
Less of what WoW does with LFR. They have even recognized that it was a bad idea.
They should imo start doing Multi-difficulty raids.
 
But what do I know....*winks*
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Sorry, not following what you mean. Isn't LFR a form of multi-difficulty raiding?
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			If they make a lfr tool then the next thing you'll see is all the noobs crying that ga is too hard and needs an ez mode version. 100% guarantee this will happen.	
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			 We don't need an lfr...we got world bosses for the easier raid content. I don't see carbine doing this anyways they already know that the raids are not exactly pug friendly even though ga is now being pugged some what and they made them that way for a reason.	
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If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.
 
A lot of people seem to forget that a lot of the time good things come about by way of people building upon something that came before.
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Did you really just complain about Wildstar not being casual friendly, then say you're going back to EVE, the most hardcore, ruthless, non-casual game in the genre?  The anti-logic! IT BURNS!!!!
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If you're talking about WoW, then no, it's not.  It's one mode, so easy where only about 20% of your group needs to try, with most mechanics removed, and those that are still in, don't even need to be preformed at all correctly.
There are videos of players flat out naked running LFR.
Why I'm only slightly peeved seeing people who haven't played WoW/ haven't seen the impact LFR actually has had on the game talking about how great it is without knowing it's true nature.
If you're talking about LFR as in the group finder tool - listing raids and hand picking players, that's only for normal and heroic of the current tier. (mythic will be added later, but that's a whole can of worms I won't talk about here)
 
PS Xorian that video is actually really awful - that rat is not being taken care of well.
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I have tried eve and decided it was not for me but to its defense it doesn't wait until the level cap to spring you the nasty surprises. Its made clear from the very beginning what you are getting into. Also (it feels very strange to say it tbh given the amount of menus it had) it feels a lot more transparent and approachable as far as systems and mechanics go but that could be perhaps because its out longer and the community has matured so you can look things up. Atm in WS its a mess of 1-year-old-google stuff that are mostly wrong and the forums, well they are forums. Not much is expected there.
 
Anyway on topic, an LFR will most likely bring ruin. It is the path of least resistance and people will follow it. If it is abusable it will be abused. On the other hand if it keeps more people playing and spending, one cannot fault a company for using it. I feel its more of a community issue than a mechanics issue, but its a thought that just happened so ill think it over a bit more.
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If they make a lfr tool then the next thing you'll see is all the noobs crying that ga is too hard and needs an ez mode version. 100% guarantee this will happen.
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For what it's worth, I agree with you about this. A real pug going into GA at its current difficulty won't work.
 
What people are currently calling PUGs in GA aren't--they're much more accurately described as guided tours by folks who already have done it. And while I certainly appreciate their willingness to do that, I understand full well that it's still a premade team that is simply not using guild organization to coordinate and schedule the raid.
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			PUG = Pick-Up GroupIt's a term from real life sports where you just go to the court or field and grab anyone who's willing to play.   In videogame terms it could apply to just forming a group out of whoever is available at the time by spamming a global channel.  So if you're pre-determining a time, and people are signing up to go on your run, it's not technically a PUG.     If you're just spamming global chats to fill spots, then you're "PUGing" people.     Generally speaking, if there's any form of organization or pre-planning, it's not really a PUG at that point.  	
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It's still a PUG though. Just because one group has done the content and one hasn't doesn't change that fact its a PUG  :ph34r:
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It's a raid run by at least one experienced player who schedules a time when they'll show up and form a raid group at their own discretion among those people who show up, all of whom must be integrated enough into the community to even know that the run exists at all. How is that any different from a regularly scheduled raid night for a guild, except that it's being done without requiring you to be in a guild?  :huh:
 
By what criteria are you defining a PUG here?
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But as much as I groan every time I see someone suggest it, I can still recognize two things that I think also apply to LFR discussions: first, the people bringing it up have a real problem they are trying to address for which the suggestion is the most obvious solution; second, the fact that I have seen the general idea implemented poorly and leading to disaster does not mean that better implementations are impossible. So I try to keep an open mind and think through what it is about the implementations that I've seen that made them bad and whether the current ideas address those issues or not.
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You have raids that you can do easily, and you still have the appeal of moving onto harder content to see all the stuff to see, instead of seeing it all in a watered-down pile of goo
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			Sorry, maybe I've missed something. There's a new entry-level raid coming? I thought the upcoming raid is intended to follow DS, not precede GA.	
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			you know what they did to fix final fantasy 14?   made a copy of final fantasy 11 with new graphics engine.	
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you know what they did to fix final fantasy 14?   made a copy of final fantasy 11 with new graphics engine.
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Sorry, maybe I've missed something. There's a new entry-level raid coming? I thought the upcoming raid is intended to follow DS, not precede GA.
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And the amount of sheer trolling, salty, unfairness of that game is staggering.  The devs actually PROMOTE people scamming, trolling, and otherwise being dicks to each other.  90% of the time when an actual bug exploit is found, it's eventually ruled as 'clever use of game mechanics' instead of a bannable offense. 
 
In a lot of ways I'm glad that game exists. It's a magnet for trolls, and keeps them all in one place, attacking each other instead of the rest of the MMO genre.  I don't even want to think about the apocalypse that will happen when EVE eventually shuts down.  The humanity. The horror!  xD
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			Ultimately what someone needs to do is to take the combat and jumping Wildstar, the story of SWTOR,  the skill system and megaserver of EVE online, and the superior underlying game mechanics of GW2, and mix them all together into an MMO that's so good it would attract even the most salty of skeptics.  Sadly, I think it would take the funding of someone like Blizzard to make it happen, and they're not going to even try until they're done milking WoW for every last cent.  It may even be possible that the age of MMOs, as we know them,  is coming to an end.   I haven't heard anything about EQ:Next in the last year.  The only other MMOs I've heard anything about are Blade and Soul(because it's so sleazy), and maybe a little bit about Black Desert.   	
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Ultimately what someone needs to do is to take the combat and jumping Wildstar, the story of SWTOR,  the skill system and megaserver of EVE online, and the superior underlying game mechanics of GW2, and mix them all together into an MMO that's so good it would attract even the most salty of skeptics.  Sadly, I think it would take the funding of someone like Blizzard to make it happen, and they're not going to even try until they're done milking WoW for every last cent.  
 
It may even be possible that the age of MMOs, as we know them,  is coming to an end.   I haven't heard anything about EQ:Next in the last year.  The only other MMOs I've heard anything about are Blade and Soul(because it's so sleazy), and maybe a little bit about Black Desert.  
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Bliz may have the funding but I don't believe they have the ability anymore. I think they are focused on fast to make cash shop goldmines like Hearthstone anymore. Once Titan got abandoned I think the hopes of a new Bliz MMORPG died.
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Ultimately what someone needs to do is to take the combat and jumping Wildstar, the story of SWTOR,  the skill system and megaserver of EVE online, and the superior underlying game mechanics of GW2, and mix them all together into an MMO that's so good it would attract even the most salty of skeptics.  Sadly, I think it would take the funding of someone like Blizzard to make it happen, and they're not going to even try until they're done milking WoW for every last cent.  
 
It may even be possible that the age of MMOs, as we know them,  is coming to an end.   I haven't heard anything about EQ:Next in the last year.  The only other MMOs I've heard anything about are Blade and Soul(because it's so sleazy), and maybe a little bit about Black Desert.  
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these days a game won't function long term without a tough out  lfg/lfr tool. 
 
in wildstar most grouping does not work for the casual
 
1. dungeons are to hard for pugs
2. raids are impossible for pugs
3. in 2015 a game needs to be flexible enough to make adhoc grouping possible AND rewarding
4. in 2015 nobody has time for a guild and organized raiding.
5. in 2015 there are many alternatives who do it right. 
 
you have to make everything accessible 24/7 on a push on a button. thats what we expect these days. if you cant/dont want to deliver this functionality you will be loosing all the quick influx of f2p players. nobody will stick around just to wait for guild to come online or just to do dailys. 
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Woe betide the poor sod who suggests that to make a game truly thrive and not end up as a niche sideline maybe you should actually cater for hardcore *and* casual, all playing happily in the same game. They will tie you to a stake and light the bonfire quicker that you can say "rational business model". 
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No, please no. Not four difficulties of the same raid and calling it 'content' to run through all of them, that apart from the fact that you see the last boss way too soon. Yes, you can opt not to do it, but who is going to invite someone that doesn't have at least LFR gear? Go run LFR, you lazy person! You'll do it in half an hour and you'll get all the gear to join us.
 
Except that you've seen all the bosses by then. There's nothing to look forward to. The raid's progress becomes meaningless. 
 
Please do not make this wow. That game is still out there, so if you like that concept you can simply play it. Why have two of the same when you can have two totally different options? I've always played more than one game because then I get to play something different. 
 
Why not enjoy wow for what it is, then enjoy wildstar for what it is? 	
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			Recently I runed my alt Esper that only had season 1 PvP gear and ended up doing around 6k-8k~ dps depending on the boss/mechanics in veteran dungeons, meanwhile the pugs in ilvl78-80~ gear from dungeons (as compared to my ilvl60) were doing 2k. Basically, it's not that this game is too difficult, people just have a severe lack of understanding about what a dungeon requires the dps requirement on top of that and also how to/what to rune.Basically, to the people that showed up here this month crying that dungeons are too hard. raids are too hard, content isn't built for casuals, etc., it's not hard, the game has been in farm mode as far as dungeons/GA for 7+ months now. Even casuals do GA, stop jumping on the casual victim train and learn to play and you might see some improvements in your ability to enjoy the game.
			
				
	Edited October 18, 2015 by Naix	
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Recently I runed my alt Esper that only had season 1 PvP gear and ended up doing around 6k-8k~ dps depending on the boss/mechanics in veteran dungeons, meanwhile the pugs in ilvl78-80~ gear from dungeons (as compared to my ilvl60) were doing 2k. Basically, it's not that this game is too difficult, people just have a severe lack of understanding about what a dungeon requires the dps requirement on top of that and also how to/what to rune.
 
Overall, the people that showed up here this month crying that dungeons are too hard and raids are too hard, the game has been in farm mode as far as dungeons/GA for 7+ months now, even casuals do GA, stop jumping on the casual victim train and learn to play and you might see some improvements in your ability to enjoy the game.
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I actually agree with you for the most part but I do want to point something out from the perspective of someone totally new.
 
Now I do not have a max level toon yet. I have however been hunting the web trying to figure out what I need to be doing with the toon I am working on. Let me just say what is out there is about as clear as mud. I take it stats, builds and rotations changed recently because most of what I am finding is asking for stats I can't even find on my list. Other stuff I find says you need crit. Ok which crit? Strikethrough? or the other one? TO people that have been playing awhile I am sure such things are blatantly obvious. TO me coming in with no knowledge they are baffling.
 
I absolutely agree that players new and old have to prepare. However doing it is not quite as easy as it sounds. :)
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You're looking at old info more than likely if you look anywhere outside this forum
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16sYaGZp0UQw7l5eXhLSslCkxrGBtGAkbTWOIbfQ_AI4/edit#gid=216302878
 
Some classes rely on multi-hit, some rely on critical/critical hit severity, it's basically as simple as just reading the stats given by gear once you know. Strikethrough is called strikethrough, it reduces chances of mobs deflecting attacks, critical hit is called critical hit, it increases chances to critical hit. Basically there is available info, people just have to realize drop 6 is a huge change and any info is dated basically. 
 
If you want good info, you are better off asking within class forums at this point and checking guides within them. Even guides dated for drop 5 usually have good rotations still or at least acceptable ones.
 
To be honest, I wish the info were more easily found but we just went f2p after all.
 
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Yesterday my mom and I had a blast in the event adventure and we got through it together while laughing our asses off on skype.
 
She originally a wow player so when I saw her interrupting and hybrid healing while her dps wasn't even that low I was really baffled. I asked her how she got to find out how to do all that and she told me she learned it through the protogames academy. She had wiped a few times on the first boss, found her interrupts and downed it (with the group).
 
Every game has its faults and flaws and I can probably find many for wildstar as well. But this game is really great at learning you MMO basics if you are willing to try, however casual. Both my mom and I have a busy life with the usual stuff: job/household/family/hobbies/blablabla. We are the pinnacle of casual. A snail sliding around our keyboards will level faster than we do.
 
This game is not hard and doesn't need to be nerfed. I could do with a little less confusing, though I'm afraid that would result in taking away options so I'm not asking for it ;).
 
edit: There's a difference between wanting to game and wanting to watch a movie. 
			
				
	Edited October 20, 2015 by shadowmessengerx	
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