123990-my-concerns-for-wildstars-future

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Howdy,
 
I started playing Wildstar with 7 RL friends 2 months ago and I'm the only one left. Here's my experience on this game and what I think is going to happen:
 
It's been somewhat fun mostly because my guild is awesome but... Wildstar has an extremely low population and BG queues have been inconsistent due to not enough dominion players. There is a huge disparity between the two factions and it shows when you sit in a PvP queue for anywhere between 5mins to 35mins or longer. I'm tired of the queues being an issue and quite frankly waiting for "Drop 5" to try and fix things is a bit much. That right there is a huge problem in a game that was promoted both PvP & PvE. Also there is almost no one and I mean no one playing on the PvP servers... that is a huge red flag. When an entire server (what's left of it) vacates in a mass exodus there is a serious problem. Carbine should publicly address things and gain everyone's trust asap imo.
 
Another huge problem I have noticed is that this game is very poorly optimized and is a major reason for the state it's in. The fact you have to disable Carbine's very own addons in game to try and combat rampant FPS problems, memory leaks etc. is not a good sign. From what I can tell Carbine has a decent game, raids can be fun but Carbine has not put out a quality product like they claim to be as a "AAA" MMO Company. In my opinion having a lot of content does not = quality, it means they have a lot of stuff and need to reinvent itself.
 
I think this game had a shot by being a cool sci-fi mmo but it fell short unfortunately and most of my friends agree.
 
My predictions: Honestly I think this game is going to go F2P to garner a huge influx of new players or NCSOFT will pull the plug on it. There is no way you can convince me that NCsoft will sit by and "hope" that players slowly return when their Wildstar's subscriber base and financial outlook is not healthy. Also I played City of Heroes and NCSOFT pulled the plug when it was sitting at around the same threshold as Wildstar... this is not something that can be disputed. Will NCSOFT throw millions of dollars at Wildstar hoping it suddenly becomes a profitable hit?  No clue.
 
Just my 2 cents. You can either agree or disagree feel free to share your thoughts.
 
Thanks,
 Billy	
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Please, please change the font color to white. I am having a hard time reading this.
 
Thank you :) for changing the font color.
 
As for PvP: I don't have anything to say about that because I don't PvP. So will leave the comment alone.
 
Optimization: Yes, there are still a few issues. They know about some of their addons causing issues and are working on them. I can only think of one off the top of my head that causes issues and that's the /who. Other than that I don't have issues with fps, except in Thayd I will stutter sometimes. I did when the game first released, but they have fixed issues since than. Not sure where you are getting the 'rampant FPS problems'?
 
Memory leaks have only cropped back up since the last drop. But, I think they fixed them. I haven't had to restart my game once in the past few weeks.
 
I am not commenting on the predictions paragraph. That subject makes me cranky, at best. :P
 
I feel that WildStar is improving with every drop/patch they do. Yeah, the game isn't perfect, but what MMO is? I truly feel that this game will go far, as long as Carbine keeps putting in new content and fixing the issues that are here, like the PvP.	
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Population is on the rise and only to increase with drop 5.
 
Queues aren't so good but again, drop 5 will all but solve the faction imbalance with same faction BGs
 
Game is already free to play
 
Anyone complaining about poor performance is most likely an AMD user. For whatever reason Wildstar doesn't work well with it. Switch over to Intel and enjoy 60+ fps 
 
Carbine just needs to keep doing what they are doing and that is working to make the best Mmo out there.	
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Population is on the rise and only to increase with drop 5.
 
Queues aren't so good but again, drop 5 will all but solve the faction imbalance with same faction BGs
 
Game is already free to play
 
Anyone complaining about poor performance is most likely an AMD user. For whatever reason Wildstar doesn't work well with it. Switch over to Intel and enjoy 60+ fps
 
Carbine just needs to keep doing what they are doing and that is working to make the best Mmo out there.
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I'm actually with Evade here.  Carbine's already doing what's best for us as players (just flat out making the game better).  The population has risen from that point, validating that if you build it right, even if it takes you a while to get it right, they will come.  Now it's mostly a PR issue, with people complaining about the population instead of the game itself as often.
 
As I've said, I'm not against including free options as long as they're self contained.  My 15 dollars a month pays my way; I shouldn't have to be on the outside looking in on content my 15 dollars a month just doesn't buy so that the kinds of scum circling the drain of our FB and subreddit can annoy me in-game as well.  If this game goes F2P, I'm cashing in my chips and leaving.  I'm no fool.
 
As I've also said, if they say that's off the table, and I know my 15 dollars a month will buy me the entirety of developed content for any length of time, I'll subscribe ahead that entire length that I possibly can.  If F2P is off the table for a year, I'll buy a year.
 
Honestly, I'm not sure NCSoft will make that much more money of the game goes F2P.  They already own a large chunk of the market, and their games will be competing with each other (bad all around for them).  There's every possibility that if things get that bad, they'll just shut the game down period.  Luckily, since things are looking up, I think we've bought some breathing room.  It's a lot better now than it was in November.	
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Sorry,
 
but I'm with the others on the population rising.
I'm getting people apply to our guild on a daily basis that are either new or coming back to the game.	
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Sorry,
 
but I'm with the others on the population rising.
I'm getting people apply to our guild on a daily basis that are either new or coming back to the game.
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I'll agree that pvp queues aren't the best, but theres quite a bit of a bottleneck currently.
 
I think that a common theme going on is...if you're on pvp server it feels like the game is shrinking and on pve side the game is trickling upwards(not by leaps and bounds, but slowly rising). I myself have seen a number of returns on entity as well as new faces about every day in game too.	
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I'll agree that pvp queues aren't the best, but theres quite a bit of a bottleneck currently.
 
I think that a common theme going on is...if you're on pvp server it feels like the game is shrinking and on pve side the game is trickling upwards(not by leaps and bounds, but slowly rising). I myself have seen a number of returns on entity as well as new faces about every day in game too.
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Population is on the rise and only to increase with drop 5.
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Lol 
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I've been inviting people right and left. From what was 0 registrations on our guild site, it's now 1-5 a day...
 
If that's not the population rising as well as pvp participation, then Idk what is...
 
But this was a nice post OP, well constructed and valuable fears that we all share.
 
Hopefully carbine have finally pulled their thumbs out of their asses and will do something now to fix the niggles in the game now that they've addressed some major flaws.
 
Here's all to some hope, and that the game won't have to get to a point it cashes out on F2P (I would prefer a B2P with a "patron sub" and CREDD still worth something) or NCSoft pulling the plug in a year or so...	
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queues are "empty" mostly because all people make premade, i always run dungeon with a full group or 4 persons at least, the times i pvped was when entering a full premade, even when i dont have any friend online i just say in gchat "anyone wanna come to a random dungeon", always get minun 2 responses, after i write the same thing in lfg channel and got a full group.
 
and btw in my guild there are so many new people that they are thinking of running a second group for GA. the population isnt the problem, the problem is the people dont wanna be social for making group things and dont wanna take the lead and get a group of their friends or even make new friends making a group with total strangers.
 
the thing with LFG is that people had terrible experiences, some guy who lost it at second wipe, people needing on everything or calling names to the others, some elitist that try to kick you for your gear even when the dungeon havent started, gold or bust mentality, or in the time we were struggling to do any dungeon (september 2014) people really subpar to the content and that didnt take any advice (that was serious, 500 dps on a boss means they had problems with their build).
 
for those things i now always make a group before queueing, and even in my alts at lower levels i prefer to get a full group before queuing, its just faster.on the other topic, i run the game in a laptop and in a pc, i raided in both and did some stream on both, and the thing is in the laptop who have  a i74510u, 8 gb ram, and a nvidia 840m i got  60 fps in thayd, 40 in raid and like 45-50 in dungeons in medium settings. meanwhile in the pc who has a phenom 2 x4 925, 16 gb of ram and a nvidia gtx 660 i got 50 fps in thayd, 30 in raid and like 40 in dungeons in medium settings, so you can see the difference isnt that much and those where meanwhile i was capturing it with shadowplay	
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The problem is the game's content isn't "Pug friendly" or so I've noticed :P
 
Wildstar would be much better suited with a event board or something, something similar to the lfg function they put in on wow.	
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Well, also, "queues are empty" is a vastly different statement than "population is low".  I think it's often used interchangeably, but they're far from the same thing.  You can have a rising population and nobody queues because they hear horror stories about it (like that it's empty and you're better off finding a guild that runs majority premade), and you could feasibly have a falling population but rising queue membership (if guilds can't run premades anymore and the community fragments, queues might be all you have).
 
Right now, I assume that between the easy leveling experience and the bad PR for queues in general, the fact we're seeing a population rise that isn't really helping queues is more of a participation problem than a population problem.  The population standing around Academy Corner alone at primetime could form 6 BG teams by themselves, or 24 parties.  They just don't queue.
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I'm well aware they're different. I am agreeing that pvp queues are currently rather low as in the queue times themself.However posts #3 and #4 inject the population observation, along with the now visible follow up posts that further comment on rising population(theere wasn't any at the time i was typing it).
 
Thing is though the fact that it is popping means people are queueing, but they may need to way longer if on the larger population side(exile) than the smaller side(dominion). Those people you are observing afk at acdemy corner coud probably field at least 1 or 2 matches by themself with same faction, but they may be waiting for dominion to finish up and get into the next match. I persoannylly see the PvP queue times as being more of a bottleneck then participation and its made worst in lower levels.
 
 
is it bad that i kind of want to see this happen...?
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This game is definatetly NOT pug friendly.
 
This is evidenced by the lack of queues.  Simply put, this game has been successful in forcing players to be social and forming friendships / communities, as no one is wanting to "pug content" without atleast a few familiar faces.
 
Compare this game to other games - in other games, you can stand still, tab target, and pew pew away.  Very seldomly on 5 man content are you required to actually do anything.  This makes it an enjoyable experience, and the game becomes focused on simply doing your rotation accurately and quickly.
 
Now, in Wildstar, you need to take positioning into account.  The enemies are not as easily manipulated, as well, the healing requirement means if you want heals, youre likely very close to your friends.  This movement requirement alone, means individuals must be more skilled to be successful, even in small group content.  Now, throw in the rotations (and requirement to aim them), and its already above and beyond.  Now, introduce and promote the need to interupt everything in sight.  This means not only are players required to stand together, aim their attacks, look for and stack for heals, but now they are required to throw in interupts (and watch enemies for casts) on top of it all.
 
This pretty much means that the average player MUST be substantially better, than the average player experienced in other games.
 
 
 
Now, on a seperate topic, you have mentioned PvP.  This game was launched, and was always promoted to be a PvE game (with PvP as a side game).  There are lots of people who were incorrectly informed that this game was "for PvP" but in actuality, it was not designed with that in mind.
 
With that being said, they are actively taking steps to address their lack of PvP, as they are aware that more gamers = more money, and people do see the mechanics of this game challenging and heightening their PvP experience.	
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Well in reference to PvE queues, I think ultimatly our current LFG system jsut doesn't cut it. It'd be nice for other games like WoW, Rift, etc...but it's not so good here where the intended goals can vary quite differently and an LFG bulletin board would work out better.
 
I've had less success with the LFG system, but more success basically just calling out in zone and using the player channels. I'd agree that it's not pug friendly to the degree that the intended expectations and experience can be rather drastic impact on the performance of completing the dungeon.
 
As example normal STL when i did zone calls, the group formed and we all got to know that the group was new to wildstar overall, discussed things before hand and we had some wipes, etc...but it was expected and we were surprised to do some fights well. However in contrast when I got into a group via LFG it was a hot stinking mess where a "veteran" kept trying to rush through and ended up dieing a lot blaming the healer and quitting(one of those guys who likes to pull before the tank in hopes the tank will pick it up)	
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you mentioned F2P .. hope you're wearing your flame proof underwear :D
 
I agree with you though, F2P is in WIldstar's future ( but don't tell everyone!)
 
I think it is interesting that NCinteractive, the division which publishes and supports wildstar  is hiring a monetisation manager for the Orange County CA area, coincidentally where Carbine is.
 
or maybe its not... but if I were a betting person I wouldn't be betting against F2P, the population is too low and recovery is slow. MMO History shows that struggling games can be turned into money machines through F2P
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(one of those guys who likes to pull before the tank in hopes the tank will pick it up)
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My predictions: Honestly I think this game is going to go F2P to garner a huge influx of new players or NCsoft will pull the plug on it. There is no way you can convince me that NCsoft will sit by and "hope" that players slowly return when their Wildstar's subscriber base and financial outlook is not healthy. Also I played City of Heroes and NCSOFT pulled the plug when it was sitting at around the same threshold as Wildstar... this is not something that can be disputed. Will NCSOFT throw millions of dollars at Wildstar hoping it suddenly becomes a profitable hit?  No clue.
 
Just my 2 cents. You can either agree or disagree feel free to share your thoughts.
 
Thanks,
 Billy
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I don't know where you guys live, but I haven't had a problem finding a pvp OR dungeon queue in the last couple of weeks.
 
I have people in my guild who pvp all day with no complaints about queue times, and unless I'm trying to pug at like 10 pm the group finder never has a problem finding a group. Hell yesterday I got a new character to 50 and threw him into the pvp queues. Even when I was queuing alone the wait time was 3-5 minutes at the most. On top of that I'm on Dominion, which has like half the population Exiles does.
 
Maybe as Typrop said there's more of a bottleneck for Exile pvp than Dom pvp, but that wouldn't effect the dungeon queues, so I don't know whats up there.
 
Frankly though, at this point I don't have any issues finding people to do group content if I want to, so I really am not understanding where all the hand wringing about low population is coming from. 	
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I don't know where you guys live, but I haven't had a problem finding a pvp OR dungeon queue in the last couple of weeks.
 
I have people in my guild who pvp all day with no complaints about queue times, and unless I'm trying to pug at like 10 pm the group finder never has a problem finding a group. Hell yesterday I got a new character to 50 and threw him into the pvp queues. Even when I was queuing alone the wait time was 3-5 minutes at the most. On top of that I'm on Dominion, which has like half the population Exiles does.
 
Maybe as Typrop said there's more of a bottleneck for Exile pvp than Dom pvp, but that wouldn't effect the dungeon queues, so I don't know whats up there.
 
Frankly though, at this point I don't have any issues finding people to do group content if I want to, so I really am not understanding where all the hand wringing about low population is coming from. 
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You're having a positive experience, Zuberi.  Therefore, you must not exist.
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Well I mean I don't usually come to genchat and make threads about my positive experience so I suppose I don't...
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			How many times do we have to have this topic? This post doesn't bring anything new to discuss. My opinion is still no to free to play.	
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How many times do we have to have this topic? This post doesn't bring anything new to discuss. My opinion is still no to free to play.
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			at this point im tired, from now on ill ignore all the  topics than their theme is  f2p or game is dead, and will ignore all the posts that try to derail all other topics. just ignore em let em have discussion within them and we will have a better forum	
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To be fair, although it did have f2p in it, the topic wasn't about it, but more Grond's experience.
 
All my friends left too, they went back to wow to raid, and now they regret it and they are too proud to admit that wildstar is so much more.
 
I've got a couple more people playing just this week by telling them about the 10 day trial and them playing through protogame academy. (Yes, they found a group at non peak time...) That was the cincher. Now they're both almost level 30... in about a week. They are having a blast.
 
I think what puts people off is bad publicity.	
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To be fair, although it did have f2p in it, the topic wasn't about it, but more Grond's experience.
 
All my friends left too, they went back to wow to raid, and now they regret it and they are too proud to admit that wildstar is so much more.
 
I've got a couple more people playing just this week by telling them about the 10 day trial and them playing through protogame academy. (Yes, they found a group at non peak time...) That was the cincher. Now they're both almost level 30... in about a week. They are having a blast.
 
I think what puts people off is bad publicity.
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I'm also one of the returning players and damn I'm having fun these days:) Currently level 17 exile spellslinger. 
 
TBO I dont care if wildstar goes F2P or not..I will play it as long as I have fun regardless...but I know one thing..I will get tired of it someday...1 mnt or 12 mnts ahead in time...then I will rotate back to WOW, GW2 or APB....those are the games in my rotation and I have played none other games for many many years...after that..I will probably rotate back to Wildstar:)
 
What I love about Wildstar is:
1) I love the action combat (but I dont play it as intended...I dont show ANY personal or friendly telegraphs..I aim with my visual guns and I'm loving it)
2) Costumes and that you can wear almost any armor in the game
3) Drusera (That woman is amazing...no other games has ever sparked something in my like that girl did...that lore guy in wildstar hit the home run with that one)
 
What I dont like:
 
1) Clunky inate for spellslinger. I kinda hate Spell surge, but I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible by never toggling it..I will turn it ON..then I will spend all of it on my attacks unthil its depleted...rinse and repeat at 100% recharge...
2) warplots are just pug unfriendly...or even unfriendly overall...its just to complicated for me to even consider to read up on...
 
Population wise...on the EU pve server last night there was so many ppl in thayd that I have not seen more ppl since before WOD dropped for WOW back in Stormwind. 	
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As I've said, I'm not against including free options as long as they're self contained.  My 15 dollars a month pays my way; I shouldn't have to be on the outside looking in on content my 15 dollars a month just doesn't buy so that the kinds of scum circling the drain of our FB and subreddit can annoy me in-game as well.  If this game goes F2P, I'm cashing in my chips and leaving.  I'm no fool.
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I'm also one of the returning players and damn I'm having fun these days:) Currently level 17 exile spellslinger. 
 
TBO I dont care if wildstar goes F2P or not..I will play it as long as I have fun regardless...but I know one thing..I will get tired of it someday...1 mnt or 12 mnts ahead in time...then I will rotate back to WOW, GW2 or APB....those are the games in my rotation and I have played none other games for many many years...after that..I will probably rotate back to Wildstar:)
 
What I love about Wildstar is:
1) I love the action combat (but I dont play it as intended...I dont show ANY personal or friendly telegraphs..I aim with my visual guns and I'm loving it)
2) Costumes and that you can wear almost any armor in the game
3) Drusera (That woman is amazing...no other games has ever sparked something in my like that girl did...that lore guy in wildstar hit the home run with that one)
 
What I dont like:
 
1) Clunky inate for spellslinger. I kinda hate Spell surge, but I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible by never toggling it..I will turn it ON..then I will spend all of it on my attacks unthil its depleted...rinse and repeat at 100% recharge...
2) warplots are just pug unfriendly...or even unfriendly overall...its just to complicated for me to even consider to read up on...
 
Population wise...on the EU pve server last night there was so many ppl in thayd that I have not seen more ppl since before WOD dropped for WOW back in Stormwind. 
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Hi all,
For me game look on the right track especially on the PVP side. I found WS as one of the best games in terms of combat system and very addicted to explore team work.
Regarding payment system I think Carbine must not change anything( Credd is going up to 40p where it belongs it can go up to 50 imo), and of course I will leave the game if WS goes F2p..as I left Aion.
 
Carbine please keep up the good work!...Even you are short on in game GM's
 
Regards from Jabitt and looking forward to return on Luminai!
Celti	
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Be warned though, going to WoW after a few months of Wildstar will be incredibly hard. No double jumps, no sprints, no dashes and no telegraphs make WoW seem like going back to Final Fantasy 1 after playing Final Fantasy 7
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this is surprisingly true. The freedom in movement in WIldstar is very easy to take for granted and it really makes the game stand out. I go play WoW and my characters are soooo slow, they only jump 2 inches off the ground, 3 inches on a mount, I automatically try to dash out of bad and fail, I find myself holding down the sprint key despite there being no such thing in WoW
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This game is definatetly NOT pug friendly.
..Compare this game to other games - in other games, you can stand still, tab target, and pew pew away.  Very seldomly on 5 man content are you required to actually do anything.  This makes it an enjoyable experience, and the game becomes focused on simply doing your rotation accurately and quickly. 
Now, in Wildstar, you need to take positioning into account.  The enemies are not as easily manipulated, as well, the healing requirement means if you want heals, youre likely very close to your friends.  This movement requirement alone, means individuals must be more skilled to be successful, even in small group content.  Now, throw in the rotations (and requirement to aim them), and its already above and beyond.  Now, introduce and promote the need to interupt everything in sight.  This means not only are players required to stand together, aim their attacks, look for and stack for heals, but now they are required to throw in interupts (and watch enemies for casts) on top of it all.
 
This pretty much means that the average player MUST be substantially better, than the average player experienced in other games.
..
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I also came back a few weeks befor drop 4 and i have to say the game is in a good shape now.
 
The PvP queue Times in Prime times are about 15 min as Exile that is ok, and for Domi its nearly instant, sure offtime it can take some time.
The game was really hard at the beginning and thats why many left, also a few off my friends, that are not that good at gaming. ( Casual that dont wont to work for things: WoW Generation)
Carbine did a good Job changing that the made it a lot easier to get Gear and to get AMP and APP, and so the dungeons are totally pug able now. Cordination is still very important, but not as important as it was.
 
Shiphands are great solo content
Adventure are great to learn the game
Dungeons are great to understand your class
Raids are great to master your class
 
But to be honest, the game isent hard and never was, its just about knowing the bosses, that goes from Adventures to Dungeons to Raids, even DS is mostly about knowing the boss to beat him.	
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Anyone complaining about poor performance is most likely an AMD user. For whatever reason Wildstar doesn't work well with it. Switch over to Intel and enjoy 60+ fps
 
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i7 4770k + GTX980ti + 2400mhz 16gb ram
Game runs at 20 to 30 fps i"m lucky if i hit 40 fps when questing during raids it gets to 10~20 fps
I can run other games 60+fps no problems but with wildstar i just don't get it, when i look at the load then the i7 is running like 20% and the GPU is at 24% somehow the game doesn't want to use the processing power that is available.
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I think it is interesting that NCinteractive, the division which publishes and supports wildstar  is hiring a monetisation manager for the Orange County CA area, coincidentally where Carbine is.
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Your problem could be HyperThreading. This technology can cause problems sometimes with WildStar, although it's often hit and miss.
But from what I understand about it, this seems to be similar as to why AMD cores suffer.
You can try disabling HyperThreading in your BIOS and see if it makes a difference or not.
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Yeah i've read about that but i run software that actually use HT so i don't want to turn it off for 1 game.
Besides it should use 1 thread more then 20% even with HT on... it's just silly.
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it should, but it doesn't always do it for some reason.
I know switching it off and on is pain, but try it at least once to see if it actually makes a difference.
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30~35 fps in thayd with higher load on one of the cpu threads, still not using all of it or even a decent part of the gpu.
Sure it's an increase but nothing special, my rig should easily be able to push it past 60fps constantly...
Most players with an i5 and high mid class GPU are getting 80fps even... so no idea why I can not get that...
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http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/CSB/
Not a gamers motherboard but it's only wildstar that is given me problems, i can run Elite dangerous easily 60+fps with DSR on and AA and AF to the max... it's over kill off course but my monitor is only 60hz so getting more fps is not noticeable. Shooters are more GPU heavy so won't name those and GW2 and BnS are quite a bit older but they also don't give me any problems, smooth 60fps across the board there as well.	
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yeah looks good enough.
Personal taste says the ram slots are too slow for me, but I think it should be fine for WildStar.
Maybe it's just the i7, hard to say without sitting at the device and tinkering with it.	
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Ram speed is not a game changer, i hear more i7 users complaining though so think it's that but i'm not going to jump through hoops to get 1 game at decent frame rates...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6372/memory-performance-16gb-ddr31333-to-ddr32400-on-ivy-bridge-igp-with-gskill/8
 
ps jsut notice it's with igp...
 
Slightly older and no 2400+mhz but well
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2792/10
 
ps. we are getting off topic here i think ^^
 
Anyway, just got news that a few of my guild are quieting the game because they can not spend the money on it any more or for personal reasons and those where regular players :/
We had recruited newer players over the past few months since drop 4 but only have seen them the first week and then never again even though we did the lvl 20 dungeons with them and help them with the 2+ man quest mobs. :/	
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I don't know for sure if it's a game changer or not.
I can tell you I run Corsair Vengeance memory at 3000Mhz, almost the double/triple of yours. It think it will have an effect to some degree.
I mean, my numbers don't even show up on those charts you linked.
Then again I cannot compare my system, as mine is Haswell based on no longer Ivy.
 
It's clear though that the game still has a lot of optimization needed.	
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I know that the numbers dont show up but if they compare 1033 with 1866 and you see on average 1 or 2 frame difference then I assume there is not much difference.
Besides MHZ is not everything, there is also timings to look at mines are actually 1600mhz C7 so if your 3000mhz runs at C13 you would have the same speed ;)
I only see 1 vengeance that runs at 3000mhz and that has C12 so it's slightly faster then mine, it's 0.000057 of a second faster 	
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I know that the numbers dont show up but if they compare 1033 with 1866 and you see on average 1 or 2 frame difference then I assume there is not much difference.
Besides MHZ is not everything, there is also timings to look at mines are actually 1600mhz C7 so if your 3000mhz runs at C13 you would have the same speed ;)
I only see 1 vengeance that runs at 3000mhz and that has C12 so it's slightly faster then mine, it's 0.000057 of a second faster 
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Well, benchmarks say otherwise, sorry ;)
1600mhz vs 3000mhz sounds like a lot but mine 1600mhz use 7cycles while the 3000mhz needs 12 cycles, all in all you come out like 3000mhz cl12 vs 3000mhz cl13 in which case it's almost no difference.	
----
			I need to check my Bios, but im sure mine is running on 9 cycles.	
----
			
I've been around since head start after a "should I buy this game or not" discussion in my mind because it just wasn't something I was interested in.  But the content won me over and I the game grew on me.  In the end the only thing that pushed me away was the problem with ranked gear, how to obtain it and the unbalance of rewarding those that rushed to get the gear before everyone else.  In lieu of that though it wasn't enough to convince me to end my sub.  What ultimately did it was having no reward system for world pvp.  Being forced to do mini-games over and over to experience PvP was mind-numbing and there the benefits of PvPing in an open world were virtually non-existent.
 
I don't pretend to know what's wrong with a game, I just have my opinions and that's what drove me away.  I'm sure a lot of people felt the same way and left for similar reasons.  What Wildstar DOES have going for it is that the game grows on your as there isn't really anything like it out there.  It's too bad that had to happen after leaving the game for more than six months in hopes that things improved, but I'm the perfect example of a hardcore MMO gamer and PvPer who WILL return to a game because it's never really forgotten.
 
In my 10+ years experience playing MMOs I have seen mass exoduses which is always heart breaking when it really is a great game, but in all those years I have always seen the same people return that had left in the first place.  What keeps them there a second time is whether or not they fixed the issues that plagued the game in the first place, otherwise it will just be weeks and you'll see them leave again, not to mention new players trying out the game.
 
Content, gameplay and polishing your game absolutely WILL cause a steady incline in population.  Look at Aion, another NCSoft title.  The game almost died and they concentrated on performance opimization and balancing, and it almost became successful again (if it weren't F2P.)  What scares me is the game going F2P instead of some real thought behind how to fix it, so I'm crossing my fingers the game remains sub-based on that one.  But they do need to rework CREDD to benefit low level players who grind just as much as players at end game.
 
 
Just some random thoughts	
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The thing I'm most curious about is actual hard numbers. The "best" I've found is the Wildstar addon downloads from Curse, which show monthly downloads (but not the full history). Looking at addons like TapThat, of which the gross majority of existing players already have, is (very) rough indicator of new players (currently 1,866 monthly DLs). The most obvious issue is that it doesn't show how many are leaving, and is inflated for repeated DLs and existing players finally getting around to it. My own anecdote is that I just cleared out my neighbour list last night, and there were a lot of people that hadn't been on for a month.
 
 
 
What I've been beating around the bush to say is that what hard numbers do we have that say Wildstar has been on the rise since the last drop? I have to strongly caution against blind optimism. The last hard numbers we have, that infamous quarterly financial report, are very bad. I've been doing a bunch of reading on Tabula Rasa, and there's good news and bad news. The good news is that TR supposedly earned 5.4 mil from its November launch to the end of the year (main article here, follow links for other details). WS earned 25.6 mil in its first quarter. The bad news is that WS earned only 5 mil in Q4 2014. 
 
A big concern of mine is that I've been getting some serious deja vu reading about Tabula Rasa and why it failed. 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
The people who did participate in the beta, we've had to go back to and say 'look, look, we promise: we know it wasn't fun two months ago, but we fixed all that. Really, come try it again.' We've had to go out and develop free programs to invite those people back for free before they go buy it. -- Richard Garriott (Face/Lead of TR)
----
			The only semi-solid numbers are Daewoo's projections for NCsoft Q1, which has Wildstar earning only 1.5 million for the quarter.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The only semi-solid numbers are Daewoo's projections for NCsoft Q1, which has Wildstar earning only 1.5 million for the quarter.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The only semi-solid numbers are Daewoo's projections for NCsoft Q1, which has Wildstar earning only 1.5 million for the quarter.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
...  the only semi-solid numbers are predicted results from a company not affiliated with Carbine?
 
Wut.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
...  the only semi-solid numbers are predicted results from a company not affiliated with Carbine?
 
Wut.
----
			If that Daewoo projection proves to be true, this isn't going to bode well. Something needs to be done to or I fear WS will get the CoH treatment. Hopefully Carb can pull something crazy out of their hat. I've talked to my friends about coming back but I can't lie to them and tell them its great when there are 0 pvp or pve queue pops when leveling and staggeringly long queue times even at 50 for adventures and dungeons. Maybe something like bringing down faction barrier will help, idk. Its sad because the core gameplay of WS is damn fun	
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm not sure where you get this mentality from. Do you understand how large KDB Daewoo is, and how important their numbers are in terms of the investing landscape? They don't operate based on pure speculation, or on emotional impulse. They have a responsibility towards their investors to thoroughly examine trends and calculate a prediction that yields results that can be surprisingly accurate.
----
			
No need to fret over conjectures and predictions since the future of Wildstar has no impact for me financially. Perhaps, emotionally. Since it's the first MMO where I actually managed to stick with for more than a month. 
 
Nevertheless, I'm just going to sit back and wait until the 2015 Q1 financial report comes out. Then everyone can dissect it as they please.	
----
			
The Daewoo projection is going to be wrong because drop 4 saw a lot more people return to the game than any of us expected, and that number hasn't dipped either, In fact, I see more and more and more and more and more new and returning people all the time, just check out the reddit/forums, there are a ton of returning player posts and even a lot of new players saying they are loving the game, Daewoo failed to count that other mmos have a large influence on another ones, and WoWs current content release is pathetic, that they have seen a gross dip in realm activity, my server has gone from 35 people in the capital city, to 6, my guild has gone from 40 online, to 12. While my Wildstar guild is rising, and so is the population. BUT, because of January, AKA pre drop 4, Q1's report is still going to be pretty damn low, probably a small increase. but q2 will most likely be a ton better. Because Wildstars only competition in growing is Heart of Thorns and Heavensword, but I don't think they will get in the way much.
People pretend like it isn't so.
People prefer to think of doom and gloom.
Even though it's not true.
We all know what to do.
Spread the word and tell others.
The game will Certainly grow this way.
 
Another thing, the game has been gaining players despite NO PR campaign at all, that, should be a good sign my fellow Nexians	
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{| class="blockquote"
The Daewoo projection is going to be wrong because drop 4 saw a lot more people return to the game than any of us expected, and that number hasn't dipped either
 
Another thing, the game has been gaining players despite NO PR campaign at all, that, should be a good sign my fellow Nexians
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is exactly what I'm concerned about. I keep hearing this said, but I haven't seen any actual numbers, only anecdotes. 
----
			I started playing again, 2 days ago. => Population is growing!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Merely conjectures conjured by people on the PVE server that are trapped in their own little circle of friends:
 
Never seen him/her before, they must be new => Population is growing
My friend and neighbor lists are growing daily => Population is growing
New recruits are being added to our guild every day => Population is growing
Our guild is highly active, no problem in finding groups => Population is growing
There's more people playing during prime time => Population is growing
 
Conclusion: Population is growing; game is thriving. So, sub model is great!
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{| class="blockquote"
Have you ever read something so absurd you didn't know how to reply?
 
Yep.  That's how I felt.
 
EDIT:  To clarify, it was not the subject of your post that was absurd.  It was some of the post itself.  Edits inline.
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't want to point out names on the forums, but you can see them in every F2P/Doom/Gloom thread. Simply stating some of these underlying reasons, why some people are blinded by their own reasonings and fail to see a bigger picture.  ;)
----
			
We've had 20+ new members recently in guild, all who during their questionings before joining confirmed they were new/returning players. Some tried the trial, some did not. Some even brought friends. Several haven't played since launch or for 4-ish months, or even since beta. I've based my view of increased population off of that, besides just what I've seen around the areas. We aren't even actively recruiting anymore, people just keep coming to us. We've had so very many that a second raid group is now working on getting to its feet.
 
I've seen many people in Thayd and thereabouts who are on the trial, asking questions. Ive seen it in various zone chats "New Player LF Guild/Etc". I've seen it on the forums, on twitter, even a few times on FB. True, I've seen some people leave, too, for various reasons, but I've seen more new than leaving.
 
WS May not be thriving yet, but I believe it's beginning the healing process. It may take a while. It probably will take the rest of the year or even more (depending on Drops and such) but I do honestly believe its slowly going to get better. I do have my worries, especially since there's more bad press than good because nay-sayers bray louder than those who look up.	
----
			
Lets see if they stay longer then 3 weeks when they need to pay for the next month, then we can talk.
With drop 4 we also had many returning players, i think we have 1 left now from the intial rush.	
----
			
Many are using the 10 day free trial and then fading away never to be seen again, IMO the population is dropping unfortunately.
 
IMO - it's because raiding is the only thing to do, once you have gear from raiding, the rest of the game is trivial at best.
 
Edit : Dharnell showed me the error of my ways (added IMO to not cause confusion)	
----
			
I usually don't weigh in on these threads because they are pretty predictable.
 
A 'Wildstar is losing players/ dead/ nothing to do'
 
Vs 
 
B 'Wildstar is awesome, loads of people'
 
Rinse. Repeat.
 
I must say though...if raiding is the only thing you think there is to do you must be playing wrong. ;) 
 
I suppose it depends on the person and what you actually enjoy but I am nowhere near completing everything!	
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{| class="blockquote"
Many are using the 10 day free trial and then fading away never to be seen again, the population is dropping unfortunately.
 
IMO - it's because raiding is the only thing to do, once you have gear from raiding, the rest of the game is trivial at best.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'd ask you to link me the source that you pulled this bit of info from, but I have a feeling you'll just link me a JPEG of what you're sitting on.
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{| class="blockquote"
I have no link for you good sir, only my own personal experience playing from the launch up untill now. As my work is shift work, I play both at peak times and off peak times which I feel gives me an all-around view.
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{| class="blockquote"
Thank you for saving me from having to see that JPEG.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Bring actual facts that can be substantiated next time.
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{| class="blockquote"
No problem, looking forward to discussing Wildstars problems with you again in the future. Have a brilliant day.
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{| class="blockquote"
As only Carbine/NCsoft know exact figures, we only have our own experiences to draw upon so this might not be possible. I will however endeavour to do so, have a great day.
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{| class="blockquote"
So then you just made your initial claim worthless. Good to know.
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{| class="blockquote"
No, however I will edit my inital post to read IMO just incase others believe I work for Carbine and know 100%. Thank you for your help, have a wonderful day.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm pretty sure that no one who is at least MODERATELY intelligent is going to think you're a Carbine employee. But nice attempt to save face over being called out for what was essentially trolling, by spouting baseless nonsense.
 
"Have a wonderful day", too.
----
			Wow that is strange I run a i5 4690 + GTX970 + 8GB ram and the game hovers around 50-60 fps...your specs are waaay better than mine it does not make any sense that you could not hit those FPS targets.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wow that is strange I run a i5 4690 + GTX970 + 8GB ram and the game hovers around 50-60 fps...your specs are waaay better than mine it does not make any sense that you could not hit those FPS targets.
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{| class="blockquote"
Wow that is strange I run a i5 4690 + GTX970 + 8GB ram and the game hovers around 50-60 fps...your specs are waaay better than mine it does not make any sense that you could not hit those FPS targets.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Many are using the 10 day free trial and then fading away never to be seen again, IMO the population is dropping unfortunately.
 
IMO - it's because raiding is the only thing to do, once you have gear from raiding, the rest of the game is trivial at best.
 
Edit : Dharnell showed me the error of my ways (added IMO to not cause confusion)
----
			
I actually think that if hasn't doubled the q4 report by the end of 2015, then they should most definitely switch to a B2P/Sub model. However, if they are say...at 9-12 million by mid to end of this year, then stay a sub/credd model, but, you know what it's easier this way.
 
Wildstar Goes B2P IF:
Q1 2015: $5.5 Million
Q2 2015: $6 Million
Q3 2015: $5.9-6.1 Million
Q4 2015: $5.9-6.2 Million
 
If the Report is ANYTHING Like this, if it's a little better, little worse, I don't care, anywhere in that general numbers, the game HAS to transition.
 
Wildstar stays Sub/Credd IF:
Q1 2015: $6.0-7.0 Million
Q2 2015 $6.8-7.9 Million
Q3 2015: $7.5-8.5 Million
Q4 2015: $ 8.3-10.00 Million
    If Wildstar manages to increase at a very good level like this or anything similar to it, than stay a sub model because that means the game is increasing in players.	
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{| class="blockquote"
RAIDING IS THE ONLY THING TO DO!? HAHAHA, please, I actively complain on MMO-Champion because Blizzard didn't compare about endgame non raid content, but Wildstar certainly does
Shiphands
Dungeons
World Bosses
Dalies
Adventures
20 man events
PvP (actively pops 5-10 PM, sometimes noon-10)
Housing
 
What is coming soon to add to this
Another daily zone (which I heard is actually good)
Contracts
New Adventure
New costume system
New 20 man event.
Pets
Toys
 
These may be easy and trivial, but they can be fun still, and give things like decor, Costume pieces, and soon pets and toys
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lol. From a PVP perspective this list is a joke.
 
PVP wise. Players are leaving cuz no queues are popping pre 50 and if you do reach level 50, pbgs only. lol...
 
We give zero shits for PVE stuff. To justify paying $15 a month, so we can see 95% PVE and 5% PVP content is a travesty.
 
As for hard facts and numbers, no points in just babbling about pointless predictions. Let's all wait until a couple of more weeks and then the Q1 2015 report should be out. Then shit get real  :blink:.
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{| class="blockquote"
PVPers are almost always a neglected community compared to PVE, in MMOs. If you're only a PVPer, you should be used to this, or alternately, looking for a new game type (like MOBA) that is PVP-centric.
 
(I am not writing this to excuse or praise the treatment of PVP in this game though)
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{| class="blockquote"
I understand this, but other MMOs their PVP game modes do work at any levels. This game, as of currently, is severely limited by really- Level 50 pbgs all day and night.  
 
As of mobas, tried and played thousands of hours combined. I want a different scene. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Lets see if they stay longer then 3 weeks when they need to pay for the next month, then we can talk.
With drop 4 we also had many returning players, i think we have 1 left now from the intial rush.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A good chunk of them use CREDD or just pay sub already. A few of them have already earned enough plat that they have CREDD saved up to be good til July or longer. I'm sure some will taper off, but most of them are just thrilled to be in a place where people talk and do things together. The Free Trial is so very limited, it's a bad view of the game. I'm glad this many of them are giving it another chance.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I dont know how a new player that started this month can have 75 platinum already...
 
But like said with drop 4 we also saw a lot of new players i doubt more then half are still playing.
----
			
We are getting a Nexus report before Drop 5, I've a feeling carbine could announce a hybrid F2P model. How would that effect me ? If I could continue to sub and not be effected by anything then I would have no problem, and hopefully it would safe guard Nexus for many years to come.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Shiphands, dailies, crafting, its incredibly easy to make plat now, at least on Entity.
----
			
I've got to go with Anvh on this one, the number of hours required to make that much (don't forget that crafting takes a huge time investment) is completely unrealistic. A tiny, minuscule fraction of the playerbase will earn 75 P in their first month. Most likely they'll number in the single digits. 
 
That aside, it is not beyond reason that they could earn enough for a single credd, but again the number that do is much smaller than you probably think. I'd wager it'd be a bit under half get that much P on them their first month (and far less spend it on credd). 
 
To be honest, either almost no one is actually buying credd, or the price is artificially controlled by CRB. The price should have skyrocketed since launch, but last I checked it's not even 2x.	
----
			
I found some other numbers, and it's more bad news. http://redditmetrics.com/r/WildStar
 
Less than a month after the launch spike, the sub has been loosing members every single day without exception. It did slow a bit during Drop 4, but again, it's bad news. Reddit subscribers are not the whole playerbase, but they are a completely valid metric. Look at it this way, the % of WS players who subscribe to the subreddit is a constant, meaning any growth or loss of subs is indicative of either growth or loss of interest in the game. So while making an educated guess on how much a -30 sub count translates to -x players is tricky, there's not much getting around that it is a -something, not a +. 	
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The Wildstar sub-reddit is a cesspit and the moderation has a reputation for being variable.  One of the moderators had posted enough inflammatory threads (speaking unofficially of course) that eventually he'd get downvoted into oblivion regardless of content even if he was moderating.
 
You want to wave that as a valid metric?	
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			You'd rather gauge public interest using Youtube comments? Or the official forums? Or Twitch? Because those are pretty much worse. The only other place where this game is ever actively discussed is a lengthy, ongoing thread in MMO-Champion, and that one barely gets posted in any more.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The Wildstar sub-reddit is a cesspit and the moderation has a reputation for being variable.  One of the moderators had posted enough inflammatory threads (speaking unofficially of course) that eventually he'd get downvoted into oblivion regardless of content even if he was moderating.
 
You want to wave that as a valid metric?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I, uh, wow. I have no idea why you feel that way, but how exactly would that invalidate it as a metric? If less people sub to it because they don't like a mod, then there would be less people to lose later. 
 
What exactly was the point of your post? I really don't get it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Is the Subreddit run by CRB directly?
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't see how that would invalidate my claim?
 
All the biases associated with reddit swing in the favor of a positive number. Reddit as a platform is growing, not shrinking. There are abandoned accounts that never unsubscribe from subs. There are still existing players only just now getting around to subscribing, far more than the number of existing players unsubscribing. 
 
If you are going to attack my claim, please actually attack my claim instead of presenting irrelevant questions. If there is some reason as to why being tied to CRB matters, please inform me of it. 
----
			
Sorry about that, still a bit flabbergasted by this:
 
{| class="blockquote"
The Wildstar sub-reddit is a cesspit and the moderation has a reputation for being variable.  One of the moderators had posted enough inflammatory threads (speaking unofficially of course) that eventually he'd get downvoted into oblivion regardless of content even if he was moderating.
 
You want to wave that as a valid metric?
----
			
Figured I'd offer this up but MMO-champion.com has a spotlight in their latest post for Wildstar's holo-wardrobe and pet system. It may be worth posting on there to show people this game is not dead. If nothing else, the thread will generate some traffic to WS by being posted on a major MMO website at least.
 
If we're serious about wanting to help the game out, and don't just want to doomsay til we know what's actually going to happen.	
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			It's the coding...everything else is beautiful. I can't feel or measure my toon's success when clobbered by massive FPS drops (I get 250 fps on ultra in GW2 btw). I want this game to work soooo badly. :*(	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Figured I'd offer this up but MMO-champion.com has a spotlight in their latest post for Wildstar's holo-wardrobe and pet system. It may be worth posting on there to show people this game is not dead. If nothing else, the thread will generate some traffic to WS by being posted on a major MMO website at least.
 
If we're serious about wanting to help the game out, and don't just want to doomsay til we know what's actually going to happen.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
HI BLOOD (Frank here :P)
 
I completely agree by the way, a major website such as MMO-Champion posting about Wildstar at all shows that there is interest to the the game, and I generally think it may attract some people into looking at it again, problem is... Hardly anyone knows about the 10 day trial because carbine haz no marketing skills apparently, so hardly anyone will resub, and those people wont find about the trial either, MMO champion should of linked it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine should send out a "free trial" e-mail to everyone who registered on their website. That way people who played before and quit, or played in beta and didn't buy the game would know they could come back and check out the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine should stop sending out "free trial" emails to people and start just having a permanent free trial up to level X, where X is somewhere between 20-25, and include that change on their web banner ads. Then you don't already have to have been interested in the game to be told to come check it out and see for yourself if it's any good.
----
			When did free trials stop being a thing games just had?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
a major website such as MMO-Champion posting about Wildstar at all shows that there is interest to the the game
----
			
While I could see the population rising I can also see how this game is balanced in a knifes edge. I feel like the studio has lost a few folks and some of it's swagger since launch. Tony Rey and Timetravel are doing an awesome job though keeping this thing going. 
 
If it is profitable no it can't be by too much, or the lack of people playing consistently is saving them some money on server costs. 
 
I could see NC soft making asking them to make the switch if they thought it would make them more money or make sure they received their investment back. Fact is NC is on the hook for a lot of dollars with this game so if Carbine doesn't want to do F2p they would have to pay that back with NC's blessing to void whatever contract they have. 
 
They problem that I see with F2p is it is not any easy transition it's a lot of man hours going into making that change and what gets pushed to the back burner then is new content. So you bring a ton of new players while leaving your existing players to stagnate. Sure the bump in pvp queue's and the extra players while leveling will be nice but hey what about those holidays, what about an event, what about some new raids.
 
Let's be frank since launch besides some daily zones we have had one new dungeon, some retooled content that was so easy you spit to get gold(vet shiphands), and zero new raids. To be fair I haven't completed all they raids that we do have yet (DS) and I know they had to switch from 40 to 20 man, but that was a design flaw they failed to recognize at launch by not understanding today's MMO crowd. The cries for hard core and 40 man raids, and let me have to run to the entrance of every dungeon sound really great but totally fall flat when put into practice. The fact is most games can't put out zero new raids a year, and have zero events and stay afloat for long. After year one your normally looking at some kind of expansion, so I'm sure they have a plan for that but if it's changed to keep up with the new player model I'm not sure. I'd love to see a group finder raid or some 10 man raids, I'd love to see an expansion come out, I'd love to see some kind of holiday event, I'd love to see something more then what we have now, I'd love to see heavy armor being top dps. 
 
Anyways in my opinion Wildstar has a lot of growing to do, it feels like this first year was a paid beta, the good news is we had fun, and our characters aren't getting wiped. I hope the team keeps working in the direction they are going now they seem to be doing a lot to make sure this game gets better every patch. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
When did free trials stop being a thing games just had?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine should stop sending out "free trial" emails to people and start just having a permanent free trial up to level X, where X is somewhere between 20-25, and include that change on their web banner ads. Then you don't already have to have been interested in the game to be told to come check it out and see for yourself if it's any good.
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