123855-afk-timer-driving-people-away

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It's simple really. Me and about 10 others from an RP guild in another game want to play Wildstar, but the anti-afk timer is a no go for us. To be honest, outside of BG's this timer is OBSOLETE. I see no reason in preventing people from staying logged in to a game they pay for. The bandwidth argument is BS (That's why we have monthly subs).
 
Seriously, afk timer=no sub and I can promise you we aren't the only ones with this attitude. Let me say again that I support these timers for BG's, but considering this game is well past launch the timer is OBSOLETE in pve. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I know for some odd reason my opinion is the unpopular one, but forcing people to log off a game they pay a monthly sub for is more detrimental than helpful, and may be driving some potential players away. It really ruins the more hardcore RPer's experience. Whats the point of a /sleep command if I cannot lie down somewhere and actually sleep in game whilst I sleep irl. Sounds stupid to most people, but for someone like me (there a lot of us believe it or not) it is something we like to do.
 
But it's not just the RPer's who are affected by this. I have seen many long distance couples who like to game together, and when they aren't playing together they like to afk together. These types of people will also walk away at first sign of an over zealous anti-afk system. Again, some of the people in my guild from elsewhere (won't say where because im not sure what the policy on that is here) are in relationships like this as well and this timer is a no go for them. 10 potential subs gone because of an obsolete system. Starting to see the big picture here? 
 
Anyway, thanks for those who read this little rant, please feel free to give input (or rage, i know some of your heads are exploding right now. Always happens when this topic comes up. No idea why.). I love this game and really want to sub, but I must go where my guild goes, where we can RP /sleep to our hearts content.
 	
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			If the AFK-logout is the biggest problem, I'd say Carbine has done an amazing job with the game.	
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It's simple really. Me and about 10 others from an RP guild in another game want to play Wildstar, but the anti-afk timer is a no go for us. To be honest, outside of BG's this timer is OBSOLETE. I see no reason in preventing people from staying logged in to a game they pay for. The bandwidth argument is BS (That's why we have monthly subs).
 
Seriously, afk timer=no sub and I can promise you we aren't the only ones with this attitude. Let me say again that I support these timers for BG's, but considering this game is well past launch the timer is OBSOLETE in pve. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I know for some odd reason my opinion is the unpopular one, but forcing people to log off a game they pay a monthly sub for is more detrimental than helpful, and may be driving some potential players away. It really ruins the more hardcore RPer's experience. Whats the point of a /sleep command if I cannot lie down somewhere and actually sleep in game whilst I sleep irl. Sounds stupid to most people, but for someone like me (there a lot of us believe it or not) it is something we like to do.
 
But it's not just the RPer's who are affected by this. I have seen many long distance couples who like to game together, and when they aren't playing together they like to afk together. These types of people will also walk away at first sign of an over zealous anti-afk system. Again, some of the people in my guild from elsewhere (won't say where because im not sure what the policy on that is here) are in relationships like this as well and this timer is a no go for them. 10 potential subs gone because of an obsolete system. Starting to see the big picture here? 
 
Anyway, thanks for those who read this little rant, please feel free to give input (or rage, i know some of your heads are exploding right now. Always happens when this topic comes up. No idea why.). I love this game and really want to sub, but I must go where my guild goes, where we can RP /sleep to our hearts content.
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I don't really have an opinion on being able to stay in game indefinitely, so won't say anything about that part of it.
 
However, I do have an opinion on the AFK timer. I don't see why if we are typing (IE: RPing or standing around talking), we get flagged AFK. AFK means Away From Keyboard; if I am typing, I am NOT AFK.
 
I would like to see this changed. In all other games I played, if you were typing you were not flagged AFK.	
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I don't really have an opinion on being able to stay in game indefinitely, so won't say anything about that part of it.
 
However, I do have an opinion on the AFK timer. I don't see why if we are typing (IE: RPing or standing around talking), we get flagged AFK. AFK means Away From Keyboard; if I am typing, I am NOT AFK.
 
I would like to see this changed. In all other games I played, if you were typing you were not flagged AFK.
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A few things:
 
-It's not an unpopular idea (I wouldn't mind if it was gone, per se), but having everyone logged in full time without doing anything isn't really a BS bandwidth problem.  I wouldn't mind it being extended, though.
 
-All you have to do is rotate your camera (left click and move the camera) and you are no longer AFK.  It won't make you stand up.  If you're at your computer and actually RPing, this should fix the problem.
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The problem is more with what I mentioned about the /sleep command. This is a huge turn off for gamer couples/some rper's and even just regular old players. I have played plenty of games that have much lower funds than Wildstar that do not have this system and they are doing fine. I don't buy the bandwidth argument because simply put, most people still won't just afk all day anyway (for fear of overheating and such) so I don't think removing afk kick in pve only would cost the company. Whats the difference between someone afk and someone who actively plays 16+ hours a day? Not much. They are both the minority, and neither is hurting anyone. I could be wrong of course but like I said, plenty of games do this with less funding and they are just fine. 
 
I realize most people don't care to stay logged in permanently, but for some its a make or break issue especially in a pay to play title.
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If the AFK-logout is the biggest problem, I'd say Carbine has done an amazing job with the game.
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Interesting story. When Aion launched they had a system set up for player run shops. Players could turn on their shop, sell items, and it would keep them in game and not AFK them out.
 
So, while everyone that managed to get into the game did this, everyone not in the game was experiencing 2-12 hour wait times to get into the game, so that they in turn could turn on their player shop and stay in game until the next time they wanted to play.
 
It was quite the fiasco.	
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 If I pay for a game, I should have full access to it.
 
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You do have full access to the game. You can log in anytime, except during maintenance/patches, or power outages. :P
 
I guess I just don't understand the 'reasoning' behind you wanting to be forever logged in. What's wrong with putting your character to sleep, logging off, and going to sleep yourself. It's effectively the same thing, isn't it?
 
The only thing I can see that would interfere with your immersion, is when you log in, your character is moved to the teleport on your house. If they would fix this, it wouldn't be such a big deal. If our characters are in bed when we log off, they should be there when we log back in.
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Interesting story. When Aion launched they had a system set up for player run shops. Players could turn on their shop, sell items, and it would keep them in game and not AFK them out.
 
So, while everyone that managed to get into the game did this, everyone not in the game was experiencing 2-12 hour wait times to get into the game, so that they in turn could turn on their player shop and stay in game until the next time they wanted to play.
 
It was quite the fiasco.
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It appears the reason for this is housing resets.  It's why we used to fall through the floor when someone logged in, why you end up on your own plot if you log out on the Shadowcaster, etc.  The housing code does not like people effectively ending up inside decor if it moves while they're logged out.
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If you're not actually at your computer(your example, you're sleeping), why does it matter if you AFK log?  If you're at your comp, RPing in place, there's that mouse camera view trick Vic pointed out that will keep you from AFK logging.  And as Cirinde said, if you're typing you're not AFK(never understood that, always thought it was a bit funny to see someone talking a lot in chat and then see "AFK" pop up next to their name in the middle of what ever they are talking about :P)
I'm not a RPer, but I do spend practically all day logged into the game(SAHM) and most of that time is AFK so coming back and seeing "Reason 7" is a PITA, but I can't honestly see how it's a game-breaking "OMG I WON'T PLAY THIS GAME NOW!!!!!" rage issue.
 
Though I'll have to say, KUDOS to you, you found something unique(to me anyway :P) to *cupcake* about and not play the game over.	
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You do have full access to the game. You can log in anytime, except during maintenance/patches, or power outages. :P
 
I guess I just don't understand the 'reasoning' behind you wanting to be forever logged in. What's wrong with putting your character to sleep, logging off, and going to sleep yourself. It's effectively the same thing, isn't it?
 
The only thing I can see that would interfere with your immersion, is when you log in, your character is moved to the teleport on your house. If they would fix this, it wouldn't be such a big deal. If our characters are in bed when we log off, they should be there when we log back in.
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Yes I was at the ff14 re launch and the same thing happened. Fortunately servers evened out (as they always do) and now there is still no anti-afk and its a non issue. I can understand at launch having this system, but after a while it just seems unneccessary. For example, Archage had afk-kick, but recently got rid of it due to not needing it to manage long queues. I'd say Wildstar is in the same boat at this point.
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I explained it but I will clarify further. For roleplayers like my group, we like to bunk together (/sleep), find a spot that we always hang at when were not doing anything else, and in general like to have a permanent presence. It is the lifeblood of what makes our guild so special. This is the same thing for mmo couples. To be able to /sleep next to a friend or partner, or be able to run past "your spot" and see your afk guildies chillin' and knowing that permanent presence is there adds to our experience tenfold.  Most people would say thats just weird or stupid, we should get with reality, but for us it is just something we love to do and is a HUGE part of why we play mmo's
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I explained it but I will clarify further. For roleplayers like my group, we like to bunk together (/sleep), find a spot that we always hang at when were not doing anything else, and in general like to have a permanent presence. It is the lifeblood of what makes our guild so special. This is the same thing for mmo couples. To be able to /sleep next to a friend or partner, or be able to run past "your spot" and see your afk guildies chillin' and knowing that permanent presence is there adds to our experience tenfold.  Most people would say thats just weird or stupid, we should get with reality, but for us it is just something we love to do and is a HUGE part of why we play mmo's
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Kind of like our nude characters on the log in screen? LOL
 
Yeah I can see why they wouldn't fix it.
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If you're not actually at your computer(your example, you're sleeping), why does it matter if you AFK log?  If you're at your comp, RPing in place, there's that mouse camera view trick Vic pointed out that will keep you from AFK logging.  And as Cirinde said, if you're typing you're not AFK(never understood that, always thought it was a bit funny to see someone talking a lot in chat and then see "AFK" pop up next to their name in the middle of what ever they are talking about :P)
I'm not a RPer, but I do spend practically all day logged into the game(SAHM) and most of that time is AFK so coming back and seeing "Reason 7" is a PITA, but I can't honestly see how it's a game-breaking "OMG I WON"T PLAY THIS GAME NOW!!!!!" rage issue.
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in some games the AFK timer was put in place to avoid abuses.
not sure how relevant it is to WIldstar, but back in the days of macroing to upgrade your toon while being afk, it was relevant.	
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I don't think it's stupid or weird at all. That actually makes sense to me, now. We all like to play our way and I don't begrudge anyone who plays differently than I do, except maybe for trouble makers/trolls. Thank you for clarifying it for me. :)
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Seriously, afk timer=no sub and I can promise you we aren't the only ones with this attitude.
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It isn't game breaking, but when you are trying to come into a game with a group of people that literally has been doing this for years, it's definitely a problem. We have to find a game that allows us to do what we've been doing, it's what makes us stick together. We are of one mind in that sense. We REALLY want to play Wildstar as most of us have already tried it and love it, but the afk issue is almost unanimous with us. I can imagine there are other groups out there like us as well that will pass up a great game because it doesn't suit the guild. Our problem? Yep, but I think it would be good for Wildstar to get rid of this system because it truly is a factor for people when they choose an mmo to play.
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Do a lot of RPers do this?  I simply can't imagine that as many of them do this as you claim.
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It's not weird or strange, don't feel that you are. I don't think it's necessary, but unfortunately I can't see this as being major either in the grand scheme of changes needed.
 
I don't think this is as easy to simply turn off.
The time could maybe be extended further to something like 24 hours, but other than that I can't see Carbine putting this as priority. I do know a couple who do this and I do this as well with my gf, but this hasn't been something we personally consider an issue. as we consider "logging on" to be waking up.
 
I think something I'd least like to see in terms of this is that when you log out of a housing plot where you are set as a room mate you log back into the same house.	
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You'd be amazed.  Sometimes, the most innocuous things are really hard to fix.  Like that aforementioned housing issue where we'd fall through the floor every time someone logged in and we were moving.  It happened because every time a new character joined the instance, because it was completely player-made, it was redrawn in place.  Sort of like what happens when a new person zones into the instance, only since the instance itself is saved on their rig, that doesn't redraw, just the players and enemy locations (that snap of lag).  Since it had to pull the entire instance, if the characters got drawn before the floor, they simply were drawn into empty space.  Seems easy to fix, but it took a long time because they had to (at the very least) write completely new code for the draw order.
 
 
 
No, we have a hangout for ourselves.  However, you have to understand that while you believe that the server strain is a non-issue, it absolutely can be.  This may be possible, but it may not be.  You'll find somewhat less sympathy from even roleplayers like myself for wanting to remain in-game while not even at your computer.  Each player in this game eats a LOT of system resources, especially if you're on a housing plot and it's constantly being retransmitted for every login to a full load of players who might not even be there.
 
For AFKing while RP chatting or for 10 minutes being the timer, I can understand those issues and don't think there are any potential mitigating circumstances.  In this case, there are very good reasons for Carbine and NCSoft to not want players logged in full time even while not at their computers, so wanting to remain in the game while you are not at your computer doesn't necessarily overcome the server-side concerns.
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in some games the AFK timer was put in place to avoid abuses.
not sure how relevant it is to WIldstar, but back in the days of macroing to upgrade your toon while being afk, it was relevant.
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This is the reason for the responses.
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I don't think strain is a non-issue. I think it is a manageable even if you take away the afk kick. Now, the real question is, does this game have the funds to manage said strain? I know Archage and F14 have no anti afk and as far as 14 goes (I play it) there is no problems. I wake up most days still in game, and really I have hardly seen the servers crash or lag in general due to the load (they can be full some days)
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In Wildstar's case, that's not true, though.  FFXIV:ARR has singular servers, not megaservers (unless something drastic has changed since the last time I was on).  That reduces their load quite a bit because they're not constantly spinning up new instances.  You can already see how much more strain there is on the servers when you log into Thayd's Academy Corner in Entity.  Very beefy rigs start to chunk because of how much information there is per character just to render them.
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It annoys me when I'm typing to people, or when I'm crafting and I become afk.
 
If you're doing something in game you shouldn't become afk :P
 
We sometimes joke in guild about it, it's an annoyance tbh.
 
But there are bigger issues than the afk timer :)	
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I support this change, though can't comment on how it would affect performance. If Carbine can do it without causing instability— which for this game would be a bad, bad thing, as the game had plenty of criticism directed at performance around launch— I think they should go for it. Not just for roleplay or to prevent the annoyance of relogging, but to create the illusion of activity. I understand some might have a problem with this concept, as the person can't be interacted with, but I see it as just more NPC-type flavour. I'd much rather have 100 people standing in Illium than 50, even if I can only talk to a handful.
 
Hell, that's all I talk to anyway. :P
 
To the OP, though I support the request, a lot of requests are made here. :lol:  So it would probably take a while for this to change, if it does. I really hope that you and your friends will try the game in the meantime as there's SO MUCH potential for RP. The housing, costumes, graphics in general and master chua emotes are fantastic.	
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Ah yes this is something I haven't considered. What exactly is the megaserver? Does it just have a bigger population cap than most normal servers?
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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of time I AFK before being logged is not consistent. Sometimes it happens quickly, some times I come back and I'm still logged on even if I've been away for a while.
 
Which makes me think they kick based on resource load not a timer, but that's just conjecture on my part.
 
Honestly, OP, I know this might drive you and your friends away, but I suspect there isn't a large number of people for whom this is a deal breaker.	
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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of time I AFK before being logged is not consistent. Sometimes it happens quickly, some times I come back and I'm still logged on even if I've been away for a while.
 
Which makes me think they kick based on resource load not a timer, but that's just conjecture on my part.
 
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Honestly, OP, I know this might drive you and your friends away, but I suspect there isn't a large number of people for whom this is a deal breaker.
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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of time I AFK before being logged is not consistent. Sometimes it happens quickly, some times I come back and I'm still logged on even if I've been away for a while.
 
Which makes me think they kick based on resource load not a timer, but that's just conjecture on my part.
 
Honestly, OP, I know this might drive you and your friends away, but I suspect there isn't a large number of people for whom this is a deal breaker.
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Today (for this threads very reason for being) I logged off entirely i couldn't afk cause I had to read the ch? of Houston and can't switch between, i.e. work on the addon i am messing with and also read and "learn" wtf i am doing and at the same time see the changes and mistakes as i made them in "real time".
 
Going to agree afk timer outside instances is a little dumb, that or increase it to 2 hours then kick.	
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I wouldn't mind it being gone of extended. I know of someone doing omnicore and being near the end when a surprise visit came up. By the time the visit was done the person had been kicked out and now needs to redo it.
 
However, the whole 'driving people await' is too sensationalist a title. Can we really not get a handle on the rhetoric as a community?	
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One thing I've noticed is that the amount of time I AFK before being logged is not consistent. Sometimes it happens quickly, some times I come back and I'm still logged on even if I've been away for a while.
 
Which makes me think they kick based on resource load not a timer, but that's just conjecture on my part.
 
Honestly, OP, I know this might drive you and your friends away, but I suspect there isn't a large number of people for whom this is a deal breaker.
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My favorite part about the AFK timer is the way it kicks me out of my long bg queues in the morning.
 
That, and the way I can get disconnected because I'm tabbed over browsing the internet / working on a spreadsheet instead of pressing the space bar in game.
 
IMO, the afk and subsequent dc timer in this game is very short, and it needs to be extended.
 
It would probably help with the concurrency issues people have, as well.	
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The AFK timer is time based, and very constant.  However, not all actions a player can take resets the timer, which is why it appears that way.  I can tell you that any kind of movement will reset it, while most forms of chat do not.
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Any particular reason why the "say" channel does not reset it?  Or crafting or using the markets? (AH/CX)
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I thought crafting did, but I haven't looked at that.  The reason why chat doesn't is because of which server is doing what.  The World server is the one that kicks for inactivity, but chat goes through the User server, and doesn't tell the World server anything about it.
 
I need to point out, I'm not saying things can't change, i'm just telling you how it currently works.  Changing this isn't my call, but I can explain how things do work.
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I thought crafting did, but I haven't looked at that.  The reason why chat doesn't is because of which server is doing what.  The World server is the one that kicks for inactivity, but chat goes through the User server, and doesn't tell the World server anything about it.
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AFAICT nothing but adjusting the camera or movement will prevent the "You are 'afk' warning." .
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Do a lot of RPers do this?  I simply can't imagine that as many of them do this as you claim.
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The AFK timer is time based, and very constant.  However, not all actions a player can take resets the timer, which is why it appears that way.  I can tell you that any kind of movement will reset it, while most forms of chat do not.
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I wanna say something about the psychological affect of a Nonkick AFK timer.
Most/if not all korean MMORPGs don't have an AFK Kicktimer, I've never played one that does, and they do this for a reason.
 
AFK kick timers psychologically disconnect a player from the game. And the last thing you want when you're trying to get a player to stay in the game you're trying to get them to play and pay for is for them to feel disconnected from it.
When a player can just let their PC sit with the game AFK, the psychological stasis in the brain is a feeling of that they never left once they come back to their PC again.
 
Prius Online had this downpat, and took significant advantage of it as well. They purposely engineered the game to stay audio active when it was minimized or tabbed out of, however the GPU usage of the game would drop to 0.
 
And not only that, the little character companion that you got in game that was a big selling and marketing factor of the game would start making little idle noises. She wouldn't make a sound if you were playing the game, but when you AFK'd she'd start making sounds like she was bored or giggling or something similar.
If you wanted this to stop, you'd have to manually mute the game.
So as you ran off to go eat dinner, or watch TV, or do something outside of the gamespace, you'd occasionally hear your anima calling, and you'd hear game sounds and you'd be regularly reminded that you are still active in game.
 
But the game would never intentionally disconnect you, except in situations of server downtime.
It's a psychological factor that drives attachment and psychological addiction.
 
Take that for what it's worth in the end, but its part of the reason korean games don't kick players.	
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I explained it but I will clarify further. For roleplayers like my group, we like to bunk together (/sleep), find a spot that we always hang at when were not doing anything else, and in general like to have a permanent presence. It is the lifeblood of what makes our guild so special. This is the same thing for mmo couples. To be able to /sleep next to a friend or partner, or be able to run past "your spot" and see your afk guildies chillin' and knowing that permanent presence is there adds to our experience tenfold.  Most people would say thats just weird or stupid, we should get with reality, but for us it is just something we love to do and is a HUGE part of why we play mmo's
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I wanna say something about the psychological affect of a Nonkick AFK timer.
Most/if not all korean MMORPGs don't have an AFK Kicktimer, I've never played one that does, and they do this for a reason.
 
AFK kick timers psychologically disconnect a player from the game. And the last thing you want when you're trying to get a player to stay in the game you're trying to get them to play and pay for is for them to feel disconnected from it.
When a player can just let their PC sit with the game AFK, the psychological stasis in the brain is a feeling of that they never left once they come back to their PC again.
 
But the game would never intentionally disconnect you, except in situations of server downtime.
It's a psychological factor that drives attachment and psychological addiction.
 
Take that for what it's worth in the end, but its part of the reason korean games don't kick players.
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Korea has also enacted gaming curfew laws for minors and connection throttling for playing for longer than 6 hours straight, because of gaming addiction.
 
I don't have a problem with AFK timers, but I don't think people should be timed out if they're chatting, or otherwise active in a game. The problem with removing AFK timers is that if people are allowed to remain online indefinitely while AFK, it could cause queues or other problems. In GW2, for example, you can't create characters on some realms during peak hours because of the number of players online during that time. Besides, should people really be encouraged to waste energy keeping their computers running on for hours on end, in order to feed a psychological addiction?
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