Report 704

Report #704
Skillset: Transmology Skill: Claws
 Org: Illuminati Status: Rejected Oct 2011
Furies' Decision:
We are rejecting this report as not necessary and question poisons as a thematic
solution for transmology.
Problem: This report attempts to kill three birds with one stone: A] Gauntlets,
the Illuminati equivalent of Wands and Symbols, are not terribly useful for
player vs. player combat, B] many aspects of Lusternian combat are far too
random, and C] spixes are too easily negated by keeping blindness up.
Solution #1: Change Transmology Claws to be envenomable with a player chosen
 venom as with telekinetic daggers, rather than with charybdon as
 with nihilist barbedtails. The advantage of choosing your venom
 is balanced by the victim getting the full chance at shrugging
 from resilience and poisons, the 50% proc rate and buying vials
 of venom.
Solution #2: As brought up by Viynain in comments, FLESHFORM CLAW <target>
 WITH <poison> instead of envenoming and then clawing. Would still
 have the 50% proc chance, etc. May be more thematic that we
 secrete our own poisons.
Player Comments:
---[Iytha on 10/5 @ 22:10 writes]:
This change makes hand morphs (and therefore gauntlets) more useful, less random
and viable for delivering nircol in combination with the spix.
---[Veracruz on 10/6 @ 15:54 writes]:
I'm sorry but I'm completely against giving Illuminati even more afflictions to
add to their surplus of an already impressive array. Damage I can see and at a
minor increase but when I spar against Shuyin and I recieve twenty or more
afflictions that I cant even cure properly they dont need another.
---[Sidd on 10/6 @ 18:12 writes]:
I dont think they're asking for more afflictions, just better control over the
ones they can already give, not to mention it'll be just like warrior/monk
poisons with a chance to shrug. So it's actually reducing affliction rate
---[Iytha on 10/6 @ 22:14 writes]:
Sidd has the right of it here. This change would mean less afflictions due to
the shrug rate and so forth. The sole advantage is that the Illuminati could
pick which one instead of it being random. Just like with warrior afflictions.
---[Iytha on 10/6 @ 22:14 writes]:
Warrior venoms, even.
---[Enyalida on 10/7 @ 08:45 writes]:
Can you not already shrug claws charybdon? I thought that any poison based
attack could be shrugged, period. I agree with Veracruz though, they put out so
many afflictions already that having choice afflicting from the poison list on
top of all the rest seems excessive. I'm not sure how having choice poison would
help spix either, I assume you intend to use niricol to strip sixthsense by
blinding them, giving your spix the window of a herb balance to try and
transfix.
---[Viynain on 10/7 @ 19:49 writes]:
Yes, you can currently shrug the charybdon claws, all this change, from my
understanding, is that the Illuminati will just have better control of the
poison they can give, not increasing their affliction output. I'm guessing, the
choice poison will help spix because faeleaf coming up is delayed, so there is
enough time to claw niricol (assuming it's not shrugged) then have the spix soon
tick, getting the transfix. I think a better change would be to make the claws
syntax CLAW (target) WITH (poison), which is simpler, otherwise, the idea's fine
with me.
---[Iytha on 10/7 @ 22:45 writes]:
@Enyalida: Niricol is indeed the thing you're use alongside spix. You'd time it
so that your niricol hit is just before the spix tick, so that they're still
waiting out the delay between smoking faeleaf and becoming immune to the
transfix again. There's other tactics that you could use claws for there as
well, but that's the most significant change you should expect to see in
illuminati tactics due to this report.
---[Ushaara on 10/13 @ 17:59 writes]:
Transfixion is a powerful affliction, especially on top of the afflictions an
Illuminati can deliver, so I am wary of the proposed change. What is stopping
you from having a beast spit niricol instead?
---[Iytha on 10/13 @ 22:46 writes]:
The long beast balance, chance for shrugging and so forth makes beast spit less
than ideal. But, really, spix is more of a side point. That's why it's listed
last, as an example of the sort of thing you would use claws for. Equally valid
would be to use it to afflict with dulak (mental afflictions are useful for
illums in general), ibululu/contortin (for astrologers using meteor), mantakaya
(to put pressure on focus balance) or pyrotoxin/saxitin/senso (to work well with
pyromancers). The report isn't to make a quick-fix to spix, but rather to
decrease randomness and increase choice, something that I think would improve
Lusternian combat in general.
---[Morbo on 10/17 @ 22:07 writes]:
I wouldn't support this, Illuminati are already the most offensively hindering
class on their own, and the mechanics for getting blindness back up are outmoded
and clunky. If this were to go in, it'd increase that functionality even more
(paralysis, niricol) and make it even more over the top than it is now. Everyone
wants to put more control into your offense, but considering the passive
hindering afflictions that already exist in the class I don't think it's
feasible. If spix are unusable right now because of blindness (which i don't
buy) propose changing those, and then changing to this but as is this would be
too powerful I feel
---[Shuyin on 10/17 @ 23:54 writes]:
If that line of thinking were true, then this would have already been a problem
from the beginning, since beast spit has always been available. As it is right
now, there is no strategic value in choosing claws over crush (high blunt
damage) or flay (psychic damage) given the the randomness of claw's poisons and
its lack of damage in comparison with the other hands transformations. It would
not be ideal to speed up the rate of spix ticks given that would only make
things even worse for the victim (and neither would I want that) and neither
would it be good to rely on beast spit given its long balance and limited uses,
so I would support being able to claw your poison of choice so long as the
standard rate of shrugging, needing a vial of said poison, etc apply. By the
way, the mechanics of getting blindness back up are fine, given the list of
powerful afflictions that Glamours can give if you are not blind.
---[Enyalida on 10/18 @ 05:07 writes]:
Of course, Glamourists have to spend two balances and power to get you reliably
seeing for any real amount of time. I agree that Illuminati don't need any more
afflicting potential (in the form of another controlled affliction from the
poison list). Claws would be useful in adding more random afflictions to someone
who is already bogged down to distract and detract the strength of random or
passive curing. With the large amount of customization and power inherent in
transmology (though YES, not every single option is optimized for combaT), I
don't think this is a needed addition.
---[Shuyin on 10/18 @ 10:53 writes]:
There's no added affliction potential if claws already can do poisons to begin
with. What's being asked is better control over said poisons. In fact, if it
gave specific poisons, the affliction potential would be reduced given that the
standard charybdon line will be replaced by the specific poison line, thereby
reducing the need for the victim to diagnose or guess what they were hit with.
---[Rika on 10/19 @ 21:21 writes]:
With the latest change that gives an aura to let gauntlets also give temp
insanity, I think this report is obsolete at this point in time
---[Shuyin on 10/20 @ 05:37 writes]:
How so? The change applies to all hands attacks, so it's not like the new change
only applied to claws
---[Enyalida on 10/25 @ 07:14 writes]:
That dosn't make it any less unnecessary. Giving insanity, damage, and a poison
of choice is a bit over the top considering all the rest of your afflicting
power and your cure throttling.
---[Wobou on 10/29 @ 16:07 writes]:
There seems to be an issue of semantics here. This proposal would indeed be
offering the illuminati more powerful afflicting ability. If picking the
afflictions wasn't a boon, you wouldn't want it. The majority of the afflictions
that could be used with this are inoffensive to me but I think that niricol
presents a minor issue. Yes you can currently use your beast balance on spitting
niricol, but this change would allow you to use your beast balance for other
purposes (or to double the chance of bypassing shrug) while you time your
attacks with your spix. One variable in this that I haven't seen mentioned is
the balance time on using claws. Is it in the 4s range?
---[Iytha on 10/31 @ 23:07 writes]:
Yes, it is.