Report 1564

Report #1564
Skillset: Music Skill: Majorseventh
 Org: Minstrels Status: Completed Dec 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1+2.
Problem: Majorseventh currently deals powerspikes and costs 2p. Powerspikes
causes damage when the afflicted uses power. It currently deals about 350 damage
per power used. Part of the intent on using powerspikes is to make choosing to
use power a risk and the current damage/power is simply too low to make it an
actual choice. Using a 10p skill will only cause 3500 damage, which is not
enough to make it a risk to using it. This report intends to fix the report with
the assumption that using 10p while afflicted with powerspikes should kill the
victim, making it an affliction we can use to combat things like trueheal and
serpent.
[A:14 R: 0] Solution #1: Change powerspikes to cause 8% of maximum health per
 power of unblockable damage.
[A:18 R: 0] Solution #2: In addition to Sol 1 - ensure that powerspikes fires
 on truehealing and any other power based cure before
 the affliction itself is cured. This should apply to
 any form of power based curing.
Player Comments:
---[Synkarin on 11/17 @ 01:59 writes]:
Historically, powerspikes did cause death upon using 10p, and somewhere in
there, the damage got reduced to not being a risk at all. This project seeks to
return it to being something risky to use.
---[Wobou on 11/17 @ 04:01 writes]:
I support both solutions.
---[Falmiis on 11/17 @ 04:05 writes]:
Sure
---[Raeri on 11/17 @ 06:18 writes]:
Supported - I don't think there needs to be a caveat for holylight - iirc using
holylight still consumes 10p from the caster, but just allows the target to be
nonself (and the target isn't spending power, so shouldn't trigger it anyway). I
agree with it needing to fire before afflictions are cured if it is not already
the case, as from memory this was how we used to counter trueheal in times past
too. I suspect currently the target truehealing is just tanking the damage and
then healing up afterwards due to the much lesser damage amount dealt.
---[Synkarin on 11/17 @ 13:54 writes]:
The reason the caveat is in there is because using holylight on oneself was not
triggering powerspikes. It sound certainly fire on whoever used the power with
the affliction (not the target). I just want to make sure it's working the same
for both holylight and normal use.
---[Demartel on 11/18 @ 04:27 writes]:
Support for both solutions
---[Shuyin on 11/19 @ 07:00 writes]:
Ok
---[Raeri on 11/19 @ 09:46 writes]:
Ah, no worries, didn't realise it did that. Support for both Solutions!
---[Aeldra on 11/29 @ 11:58 writes]:
I would want to question whether holylight really is an issue, given that it's
not a resource you can just 'farm'. Also, I wonder if a 10p ability really
should kill, or if we should not rather settle for 'nearly dead', like 95% max
damage, forcing people to actually do something in addition to sticking a
passive. Still, I will support both solutions, but wished to raise the concerns.
Also probably need to include MD's full in addition to trueheal.
---[Synkarin on 11/29 @ 22:55 writes]:
Unless it's been changed, you can use trueheal with holylight on yourself. It
still costs 10p to do it and thus, powerspikes should fire before the cure goes
through. The same should apply to both Green/Gedulah/Full and any other power
cures that potentially cure powerspikes in the same go, powerspikes should fire
before the cure. Solutions adjusted to account for those skills.
---[Synkarin on 11/29 @ 22:57 writes]:
As to damage, I think it should certainly be able to kill people. That's what
makes it a risk to use. I don't see why it should be limited to 95% instead of
just 100%.
---[Aeldra on 11/30 @ 11:46 writes]:
95% health loss in a group situation is a rather risky thing, especially if your
allies know there's powerspikes on a target and chime in. It just prevents you
from being able to kill by the affliction alone. wasn't aware that you could
trueheal with holylight upon yourself, then it definitely needs to consider the
case. Support for both solutions stands as presented there.
---[Synkarin on 11/30 @ 23:21 writes]:
95% and 100% is a big difference when it results in a prismatic shield (in the
case of serpent and trueheal) and you cannot capitalize on that last 5%.
---[Shedrin on 12/1 @ 00:56 writes]:
I think in most situations, people aren't going to Trueheal or Serpent at above
95% health so it won't make much difference. That said, 100% is probably fine.
---[Enyalida on 12/2 @ 16:36 writes]:
Don't really think you should be able to drop someone by sneaking in a
powerspikes before they cast a high power ability with no other preparation.
Raising the damage to a higher percentage of max health damage, but not adding
all the way up to 100% would be fine.
---[Shedrin on 12/2 @ 20:22 writes]:
I see it as similar to putting paranoia on a melder before an unleash goes
through, or starting a timed insta right after the target uses balance. I also
like it as another potential way to counter Serpent.
---[Lerad on 12/3 @ 02:44 writes]:
I oppose the solutions in this report. There are two separate issues in this
report, one of which I support, the other of which I oppose. First of all, the
intention and motivation to provide a counter or some strategical dimension to
the application of 10p, cure reset abilities is one I fully understand and
support. Specifically, trueheal and lowmagic serpent. I have, after all, envoyed
a report specifically to nerf suspendedanimation based on that very same
premise, to be an ability that is strategically more deep than a "LOLNOKILL4U"
ability. I will note here that there ALREADY IS A SPECIFIC COUNTER to prismatic
barriers in the game: Axelords. If further nerfs to the 10p prismatic barrier
abilities are needed, then they should be addressed via a report that looks at
these abilities specifically, the same way I nerfed suspendedanimation. The
other issue in this report, which is to punish the use of 10p abilities with
instantdeath, is one I oppose. Using 10p abilities should have a huge
opportunity cost, and should give significant benefits at the cost of
strategical versatility and signaling a commitment of significant investment of
resources. And this cost is already reflected within the actual power usage -
power is used for green/gedulah, power is used for climbing pit traps, power is
used for plenty of offensive boosts, all of which will be disabled at the use of
a 10p ability. I agree that there is a need to ensure powerspikes have a non-
negligible effect - but a 2p instantkill for using 10p abilities is not
acceptable in my opinion, given the already established opportunity costs built
into the power system. I suggest this change to the solution: Make powerspikes
deal 8% maxhealth damage of MAGIC type (not unblockable) for every 1p used while
it is active. At 10p, this would be 80% maxhealth damage that can be reduced
with resistances - nothing to scoff at, and a most significant buff to the
current status quo, but without instantly killing a person using a 10p ability.
Solution 2 is f
---[Lerad on 12/3 @ 02:45 writes]:
Solution 2 is fine, is what I was trying to say in my previous comment.
---[Silvanus on 12/3 @ 03:40 writes]:
The devil on my left shoulder says yes, the angel on my right says I don't
believe that using 10 power while having powerspikes should be an instakill.
I've always wanted a counter to trueheal, powerspikes should be that counter. It
shouldn't kill them outright though.
---[Silvanus on 12/3 @ 03:48 writes]:
I rushed my previous comment, I meant to include that I think powerspikes should
be a base number + increasing percentage. I don't think it would be appropiate
for a bard to kill any 10 power use outright from 100% to 0 with only
powerspikes, you could easily die to unfortunate timing - which should not be
possible if I powerspike Kelly the same time she hits trueheal but my command
goes through .20 seconds faster because my ping is better is simply
unfortunately unfair. There should at least be some setup before you can
outright kill someone from full health and even having the miniscule chance of
being lucky means I can't support this report.
---[Synkarin on 12/3 @ 06:39 writes]:
Manabarbs, egovice and powerspikes already deal unblockable damage that isn't
boosted by buffs or lowered with resists. I don't think making powerspikes into
a typed damage is appropriate because of that. Additionally, powerspikes was the
OG counter to both serpent and trueheal. At some point it was changed to not be
as powerful and to be cured after healing effects, and this report is aiming to
return it to that original state. I'll also note that the onus is on the target
to not use 10p abilities while having powerspikes, they can't be forced at all,
and I view it as a similar situation as not using too much mana while having
manabarbs or facing a manakill. The only argument presented that I view as this
being too powerful is Silvanus', where a ping battle might decide it, but I
think those odds are low. I'll change it to be 8% of maxhealth unblockable
damage.
---[Lerad on 12/3 @ 08:18 writes]:
At 8% maxhealth damage per 1p used, I can support solution 1+2. I was undecided
as to whether I wanted to argue further for it to be typed damage rather than
unblockable. For the record, my main reasoning for arguing against it being
unblockable was that I felt we should not add more unblockable damage into the
game as it should be very rare (so that we don't create so many exceptions to
the damage typing system that it would be as good as not having it in the first
place), but since powerspikes deal unblockable damage already, then that
argument doesn't hold water. As long as it's not a guarantee'd instantkill for
using a 10p ability, I support solution 1+2 on the grounds of powerspikes
needing to be more powerful than the damage it deals now.
---[Silvanus on 12/7 @ 02:49 writes]:
That's a lot better and I retract my objections. That way it is not an instakill
if I time my powerspike correctly with someone's Unleash Staff.
---[Enyalida on 12/11 @ 20:23 writes]:
8% seems fine.
---[Tremula on 12/18 @ 15:28 writes]:
I really like this change, since it rewards bards using their aurics properly
and makes it feel more impactful than 'lol i'll just tank this damage too' when
you're trying to focus someone down in a group. The added counterplay to the
high power abilities like: barrier, trueheal, serpent, full, unleash, etc. is
just a bonus in my eyes. Support to both solutions.