133909-sprint-has-been-ruined-makes-me-not-want-to-play-the-game

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			i don't even understand why they changed it. was this really something people were bitching about? i never once heard a complaint in game about the sprint feature, and i agree it was awesome the way it was.	
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I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Shroomblaze	
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			Correct me if I'm wrong, but sprint is ONLY permanent while not in combat, no?	
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but sprint is ONLY permanent while not in combat, no?
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			Since this isn't the case in combat, I fail to see how having a sprint meter when you're not fighting anything adds any real depth to the game.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by UnityGN	
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i don't even understand why they changed it. was this really something people were bitching about? i never once heard a complaint in game about the sprint feature, and i agree it was awesome the way it was.
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I can see where OP is coming from.
 
It was fun flying around, jumping, and dodging baddies on my hoverboard.	
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			I don't get the complaints. You can still do everything you could do with permasprint, but with the added benefit of getting to places quicker and not having to hold down the sprint key.	
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			I understand where you are coming from but here is a simple fix. In most cases your toggle walk button is set to (.) on the numpad. Toggle it. It will go to walk. Toggle it again and it will go to run/shift to sprint. Problem solved. and should need need arise for perma sprint again, toggle it once more and it cycles fully.	
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			I remember some threads popping up about removing the sprint cooldown back when the game launched. Some people felt like it was annoying and unnecessary. I didn't really care either way, but I'm kind of enjoying this speed boost. Mounts just seemed so slow before, now I can feel the breeze in my hair!	
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			You can toggle permasprint off using the same key you toggle to walk.	
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Signed!
 
I've been giving feedback about this all throughout the beta and I'm really sad this made it to live.
 
They really shouldn't have touched sprinting, and instead to solve the issue some people had with movement travel they should have:
 
1. Added a toggle option for sprinting in addition to hold (any game with sprinting has this).
2. Increased mount base speed (since the main problem people had was with traveling, and mounts ARE a bit too slow without any upgrades. You're not meant to travel by foot anyway so no reason to mess with movement by foot!)
3. Increase mount endurance (Really makes no sense to have same endurance on mounts and on foot.)
 
4. Possibly even increase mount sprint speed, as to make it more of a "turbo boost". Everyone loves turbo boost.
 
Movement by foot was fine, and we already had a lot of buffs and pots to make movement faster. Furthermore there are a ton of travel option, taxi, fast travel, teleports, recalls... This change to sprinting was completely unnecessary and although you can change to run with sprint toggle, it's clunky and not something new players will easily learn or understand from the start.
 
Permasprint hurts the feeling of control you had over your character before, takes away from the game and adds a number of problems. One being that combat now feels different than it used to, slower and clunkier. This is not good. WildStar used to feel better and smoother.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Revon	
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			You can "retro sprint" with the toggle the people mentioned above this post. But its still an unlimited sprint unless you are in combat.	
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my chua should run like fzero and sonic i want to cover  100 miles in seconds
 
https://youtu.be/uJrbxgxOSIs
 
no wait sonic is too slow i still have enough time to not hit walls.   it should be faster i want to run through the zone in less than 4 seconds and the planet in 5 mins tops.
 
 
 
 
 
 
http://www.popsci.com/it-takes-lot-food-to-walk-to-mordor
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Cubical	
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			So you are aware that you can toggle sprint off and use it manually when you need it... and yet you still complain because now you always want to hold shift? Some people just want to complain, and you are one of them :P Press it, count to ten and let it go, it's all about mastering self control now. As for me, I like that now sprint is always on, I like running super fast.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Whimsicalalien	
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I understand where you are coming from but here is a simple fix. In most cases your toggle walk button is set to (.) on the numpad. Toggle it. It will go to walk. Toggle it again and it will go to run/shift to sprint. Problem solved. and should need need arise for perma sprint again, toggle it once more and it cycles fully.
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Okay OP you are literally making a big deal out of something so small in my opinion. The removal of the limit literally doesn't change what wild star stands for in any way, shape, or form, and to be fair you are being kind of petty. I get it you thought it was fun, and I do agree with you they are catering to the casuals like me, but guess what? That was one of the things I hated the most about the game, the mount system felt slow.  I am soooooo happy they made this change, it definitely improved the quality of life for me. If you want to be a hipster and not use sprint 100% of the time then change it.
 
Side note, for those of you that  are claiming no one complained about this, you're mistaken; back in the closed beta people were complaining about mount speed. For me I just wanted for the hoverboard to be faster and thats what I got, I dont really care for the sprint system because there are sooooo many other great things about wildstar.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by MasterCerebro	
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			gee...let me refer you back to my survey results i posted in the forums a while ago 	
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gee...let me refer you back to my survey results i posted in the forums a while ago 
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			young people dont know speed kills	
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What's the date on that? Because people would have answered differently depending on the time the surveyed was carried out. 87 people is an awfully small sample pool, and makes me think it was after people quit... I wasn't even around to vote for that. The population had already dwindled and the people that were voting were probably hardcore fans.
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and this survey was started on 8/15, and its still open so feel free to spam away. 
 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZP8JDHT	
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Because mounts in this game are way too slow.  So whenever you were trying to  get anywhere you were desperately waiting on that stupid bar to refill. They should of kept it for running and heavily increased mounted speeds. 
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i don't even understand why they changed it.
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they need to buy this for the new theme song for the game now.
 
https://youtu.be/DEkSzcGIfW0
 
 
 	
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and this survey was started on 8/15, and its still open so feel free to spam away. 
 
https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZP8JDHT
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I...just....what?
Hey OP, I'm sure someone stated this already but....they didn't remove sprint.  They simply removed endurance while out of combat.  IE you're moving at Sprint speed while out of combat, and IN combat you're at run speed, but can still sprint.
 
So they didn't ruin sprint at all, they didn't take away your "little burst of speed before jumping off a cliff for extra distance."  They just turned it on 100% of the time.	
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			Loving the new sprint TBH.	
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Permasprint hurts the feeling of control you had over your character before, takes away from the game and adds a number of problems. One being that combat now feels different than it used to, slower and clunkier. This is not good. WildStar used to feel better and smoother.
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			I'm sure this change was implemented was made as a means of making the care more accessible and with greater ease to newer players. The world is large and considering it's not always convenient to mount up and travel around, running is the way to get around sometimes. At least now we won't have to wear down one of our keys as much as we used to.	
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I agree wholeheartedly Shroom, but I have resigned myself to the fact this change has been put in place and accepted the compromise made with the option to use a similar version to what we used to have with the new toggle. However, don't mistake this for me thinking it's perfect, or that I'm happy with the change. :)
 
Here's a thread that's been running since the change went onto the PTR:
 
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/129173-sprint/
 
As you can see, myself and others have pointed out in great detail, constructively, our issues with the new sprint and the alternatives that could have accomplished the goal of increased speed without sacrificing the nuanced movement and play mechanics we experienced with classic sprint. Namely increased MOUNT speeds.
 
What happened, in my own opinion, sucks. I don't like it - BUT I would rather have the compromise we have now than NO shift-to-sprint at all. It was so horrible without any shift mechanic that I couldn't play very long on PTR in my sessions until they finally added the toggle back. Just felt gross. :P As someone who fell in love with WS during CBT and preordered and remained subbed until now(and I'm still subbed!) the unique movement was what really grabbed me and kept me in this game from the very start. I completely understand your feelings.
 
Anyway, you're not alone OP. But the people this was aimed at enjoy the change, and we do have a compromise now. So you're facing an uphill battle. Hopefully in time they consider the walk-sprint for RP and stuff like that - but in the meantime it's just bad timing with all the other pressing matters devs are rushing to fix right now. Post in the linked thread your feedbacks (though Chillia may merge your thread there anyway) and just keep your chin up. :)	
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I agreed with your whole post but especially this. making sprint permanent just means the sprint speed is now your base speed and every time you enter combat you get snared. I hate it.
I hate the new version as much as other people hated the old version, I can toggle it off and use shift to sprint when I want too but so far that has proved..... temperamental and inconsistent in the way it functions
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This... Is one weird subject to complain about.
 
Wow	
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Ahh so that's what happen to sprint. It really doesn't make a difference for me though playing through different mmorpgs, but if I rememebr that it was quite useful in pvp or escaping enemies.  So I wonder how it's going to work now.
 
Will I eat the dirt quicker or have better survivabilities to keep me alive in combat?	
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I'm in giggles. Myself and others called topics like this a mile away. We've been posting on a thread dedicated to bringing light to how changing Sprint tarnishes the games authenticity. It's comical, but the fix should be easy.
 
As much as I'd like the finer tuning of this Sprint function to favor more how it used to with limited endurance and increased capacity with Mounts in said endurance and speed. I think the easiest way to prevent threads like this from happening, is simply to make it obvious to new players that there are different movement modes.
 
Some articulated how new people may see the "Run Mode" with shift-to-sprint useless since you can just permasprint 24/7. This is as true as it gets, what was once a mechanic that gave life to the game, is now a husk of its former self, purely there for the comfort of those like myself whom remember how Wildstar used to be without everyone zipping around like they're on speed.
 
Am I still complaining? Eh.. ...I  can live with the new sprint thanks to the comfort provided with Run Mode. However, I DO believe Carbine should do two things, IF NOTHING ELSE:
 
1. Make it so what we choose, sticks. So we don't have to keep picking our movement mode every time we log in.
2. Make it so new players are aware there are different modes of movement so (especially) returning players aren't confused as to what happened with Sprint.
 
If these two steps are taken, there will be less complaints.
But I'd still wish for more refinement and a return of how it used to be; I however, understand it's too late for those dreams. Damage is already done.
 
EDIT: I'd like to give a +1 to Revon's post (#11 on this topic), regarding said dreams I'd have. He knows what's up in that regard.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Neurivita	
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I'm not a fan of perma-sprint either. From an animation perspective I like to have a more normal series of animations - walk, run. And the sprint one is too much for anything but a short moment.
 
 
There was no need to speed up unmounted movement, nor mounted in my opinion - its wasn't any different from any other MMO. But if they had wanted to change one, just mounted would have been better.
 
Sprint was handy as something to use for a boost. They could have actually gotten away with doubling or tripling its cooldown so it became less of a thing to spam all the time.
 
I can 'survive' this change, but I think it was a very poor choice.	
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I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
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			Er, you can toggle back to the old version (default number pad del)?  The only difference then is that the sprint meter doesn't deplete out of combat.	
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			Welcome to Wildstar, where we've fostered a community that thinks even auto-sprint out of combat is way too casual. Lol.	
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			I like the new version of sprint. A lot. Movement in Wildstar always felt very slow to me and the sprint button... was just an additional annoyance, really. If you don't like it, just toggle it back to the way it was. You can even go ahead and arbitrarily slow down at certain intervalls, to get the real "retro" feeling ;)	
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Some people.... :huh:
At least now, riding a mount feels like riding a damn mount and not an army of ants.
 
And you can toggle it.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Cotheer	
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			If you prefer the original method, use it then.  Why does it being "auto" make it pointless?  You have reasons why you liked the original way better, them giving you options doesn't invalidate anything.	
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You guys do realize that sprint is only unlimited outside of combat right? So when you're fighting bosses and mobs you still have to watch your meter and conserve your bar? That the reason they changed it is was just to speed up travel time between locations and that most people had the button permanantly jammed down outside of combat anyway (my finger cramps just thinking about it)?
 
Anyone who's complaining at this point obviously has never ran back through logic wing enough times.	
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It was totally fun pressing and holding shift for a few seconds when you wanted to go somewhere just so you didn't move at a snail's pace.
 
Permasprint all the way. If you want slow gameplay, Madda hears XIV is a solid crawl.	
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			I much prefer the new sprint. Having to constantly press the Sprint button makes my hand hurt. I spend all day on a computer at work so my hands already get tired out from that, so I just want to come home to have some fun without making it worse. Giving myself carpal tunnel because the natural run and mount speed is too slow compared to most games is just bad game design. There's nothing else to it than that.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Leiloni	
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This change to the sprint mechanic was all it took to push me back to other MMO's.   ESO and many others still have a sprint bar intact.  This feature gave life and depth to exploring the world no other MMO had.  Revon's solution is the best I've seen to keep the masses happy.  Slow mounts was the only problem needing attention.  I'm aware it's too late and they've turned their back on most of the faithful hopefuls that stuck around.  This change alone was the final push for myself and 8 others in my circle to lose interest.
 
Good luck Nexus..  or keep me in the loop if you come to your senses.	
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			Adding the option to revert to SHIFT to sprint, but with unlimited energy outside of combat made it all better for me.	
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			I was fine with everything, even their newest bad decision of fast transport. But this is the worst. How strange that out of everything else in the game this bothers me the most.	
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This change to the sprint mechanic was all it took to push me back to other MMO's.   ESO and many others still have a sprint bar intact.  This feature gave life and depth to exploring the world no other MMO had.  Revon's solution is the best I've seen to keep the masses happy.  Slow mounts was the only problem needing attention.  I'm aware it's too late and they've turned their back on most of the faithful hopefuls that stuck around.  This change alone was the final push for myself and 8 others in my circle to lose interest.
 
Good luck Nexus..  or keep me in the loop if you come to your senses.
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I have yet to see a single person give any real examples of how having a limited sprint bar while out of combat adds any real depth to the game. I'm starting to feel like this is all a joke.
 
If someone is willing to quit a game over the lack of a sprint bar out of combat I really have to question why on earth you were even playing to begin with. 
 
None is this makes sense. I want to understand, but this ludicrousness of this all is hurting my brain. In over 20 years of gaming I have rarely seen people so distraught over something so arbitrary.
 
Someone help!  :wacko:
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This change to the sprint mechanic was all it took to push me back to other MMO's.   ESO and many others still have a sprint bar intact.  This feature gave life and depth to exploring the world no other MMO had.  Revon's solution is the best I've seen to keep the masses happy.  Slow mounts was the only problem needing attention.  I'm aware it's too late and they've turned their back on most of the faithful hopefuls that stuck around.  This change alone was the final push for myself and 8 others in my circle to lose interest.
 
Good luck Nexus..  or keep me in the loop if you come to your senses.
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You can still do the original sprint.
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			As a new player i agree with this, whats the point of a sprint if you can have it enabled all the time?, you should make it FASTER but with some kind of stamina bar or something, in combat its fine.	
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Members
LocationFinland
Posted 23 September 2015 - 03:29 PM
POPULAR
xQUB3Dx, on 23 Sept 2015 - 3:10 PM, said:
 
I've been spamming this thread for weeks saying they shouldn't have made this change, and instead;
1) added a toggle option for sprint in addition to hold (like any game with sprinting has) for those who complain about "sore pinkies"
2) increase mount base speed
3) increase mount endurance
 
Boom, fixed. Instead we get this and a big can of worms has been opened. I've explained many times in great detail WHY the sprint change was a bad idea and why my suggestion (supported by many others) would have been a better idea (if something HAD to be changed), from all perspectives (beginner, veteran, casual, hardcore, pve, pvp, roleplay), but seems it's all in vain at this point. Some people, and especially Carbine, are being very short sighted about this issue. It may not seem like a big change to most at first, but it really does make a big difference to the game, and not a good one. It takes away much more than it adds, and adds more negatives than it does positives. I'm honestly just disappointed, and very tired of seeing the game get worse instead of getting better.
 
 
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Ok guys there's a very simple solution to this, when in combat you do have to press shift to sprint so this only applies to out of combat.
 
So not sure how many know this but when you press the Del button on the numerical pad it cycles between modes. One is walk one is run and the last is perma sprint. So when just in run you choose when to sprint like before.
 
So just choose what you like, problem solved.	
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Christ, here we go with the "oh no, something I'm not used to change it back" and complaining just to complain again.
 
The permasprint option was added for those whose fingers was hurting from having to constantly press shift where the resource bar would empty every 5 seconds for both on foot and mounts and for those who preferred not having to press a key to sprint/liked running faster. From what I've seen most people are taking good use of the change. Myself preferring to sprint with shift I'm glad they added that option back and I'm very glad they did it without a sprint resource.
And what is the problem with speed? If people want to run really fast then let them, if you want to move around slowly then just use run mode with short burst of sprint whenever needed and pretend there is a resource bar. Nobody is forcing you to sprint around at full speed.
 
But of course, if you want to be stubborn, completely unreasonable and not being able to deal with such a small thing then thats totally on you.
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Qwarkus	
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			You wanna know what the first thing my friend said to me when he played, having never tried the game before f2p? "Whats with the stupid movement animation" It was stupid to have it perma sprint. It looks ridiculous and doesnt really serve any purpose. And I totally agree with the first statement. I almost want to quit just because of the stupid sprint. Please change it back to the way we loved. Plus its almost impossible to do my sick hoverboard tricks now.	
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This change to the sprint mechanic was all it took to push me back to other MMO's.   ESO and many others still have a sprint bar intact.  This feature gave life and depth to exploring the world no other MMO had.  Revon's solution is the best I've seen to keep the masses happy.  Slow mounts was the only problem needing attention.  I'm aware it's too late and they've turned their back on most of the faithful hopefuls that stuck around.  This change alone was the final push for myself and 8 others in my circle to lose interest.
 
Good luck Nexus..  or keep me in the loop if you come to your senses.
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I could see the old sprint being useful for RPers and those that like immersion. Realistically, you can't just run forever. I haven't done much since F2P launched, but there are a few problems I could see with the sprint changes. It might make JPs more tricky but I think this could be fixed by getting used to the controls. Combat could feel a lot slower. I've always hated it when combat feels super slow compared to just running around out of combat. I get that they don't want you to run away from fights but this could have been fixed by making mobs move faster as well.
 
I'm still reserving my judgement until I actually get to play the game though. So far this is just me hypothesizing. 	
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			I hate running now my Female Aurin no longer skips when running it messed up her character	
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I can't believe people are actually complaining about this.
 
Some guy even quit the game with "8 of his friends" over this?
 
 
I just can't
			
				
	Edited September 30, 2015 by Yxx	
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See Carbine got it all wrong here...
 
The one thing they needed to do was bring back the old hoverboard mechanics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlp_DFLYRL8
 
So i can watch people zoom by to their deaths...	
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I could see the old sprint being useful for RPers and those that like immersion. Realistically, you can't just run forever. I haven't done much since F2P launched, but there are a few problems I could see with the sprint changes. It might make JPs more tricky but I think this could be fixed by getting used to the controls. Combat could feel a lot slower. I've always hated it when combat feels super slow compared to just running around out of combat. I get that they don't want you to run away from fights but this could have been fixed by making mobs move faster as well.
 
I'm still reserving my judgement until I actually get to play the game though. So far this is just me hypothesizing. 
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gee...let me refer you back to my survey results i posted in the forums a while ago 
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You can toggle your movespeed, you can still use the old way of running if you want.
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Since the game is down and I can't explore for myself, can you explain how? I'm not sure if I'll use it, but it's nice to know it's there in the event I don't like the new sprint.
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Assuming that you have the default keybinds.
 You can press the DEL/. key on your numpad and it will cycle through 3 modes of movement:
walk
The old "run"/jog(i think of it as jogging or skipping in the case of Aurin) with sprint back to its former self
"perma" sprint that we have now
 
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			Some of you will always find SOMETHING to complain about! Holy crap....really?	
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Assuming that you have the default keybinds.
 You can press the DEL/. key on your numpad and it will cycle through 3 modes of movement:
walk
The old "run"/jog(i think of it as jogging or skipping in the case of Aurin) with sprint back to its former self
"perma" sprint that we have now
 
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I am a new player (never tried Wildstar before 2 days ago) and I made a post a few hours ago about how much I like the game and the world it brings to life.
 
But actually, if I have 1 negative thing to say about immersion in Wildstar is that indeed the Sprint feature feels kinda amateurish. It is obvious even to a new player like myself that in the game's previous iteration you were not supposed to be running at this speed all the time.
 
First, in my opinion, it affects immersion because the animation just looks bad at that speed. The animation for the normal run speed (not the steroids sprint) is perfect and it conveys a much better sense of weight and substance to the toons. Dunno how to explain it exactly, but with sprint on it's almost as if we, the players, were hastefully pasted on this beautiful canvas, the world, which continues to live and breathe at the speed it is supposed to. It's irritating.
 
Second, it makes the world feel smaller and somewhat trivialises the moment you get a mount.
 
Dunno, for all the fun I am having with Wildstar this is one big irritant in my opinion.	
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gee...let me refer you back to my survey results i posted in the forums a while ago 
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lulz toggle the sprint off to get the animation back.
 
ya and move slower than everybody else in your party that i using auto sprint.	
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With old sprint, sprint-jumps were means of moving faster that required some skill in handling sprint and mount. Meaning, if you knew what you're doing, ou were moving faster, and movement was more than just point and go. Without endurance management, there is no point in this and "point and go" actually is fastest way to travel.
With old sprint, there was that nice feeling of faster movement when you sprinted, gone now. Sure, you can turn off sprint, just like you can stop every few steps or just walk backwards once in a while. Heck, even in one of those videos released before launch, one on movement I think, devs themselves said that sprinting all the time is not sprinting.
Finally, it's a bad change because it solves wrong problem. Sprint was fine, baseline mounted speed was slow, and instead of increasing it sprint got wrecked while mounted speed got increased, altough to a level where it still does not feel good.	
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lulz toggle the sprint off to get the animation back.
 
ya and move slower than everybody else in your party that i using auto sprint.
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While I do consider this a literal breaking of the game design it does not make the game unplayable in a way that is not just preference.
 
  I do fear that folks, even those that like it now, will probably always have a feeling that something is wrong, especially many new players.  Many will never put their finger on it and simply move on, others will probably come to the forums and rage about the many quest that are trivialized or the Challenges that are not a challenge.  Others will become increasing frustrated at the times they slide off the end of a platform due to them not realizing that even when in the air their character continues to sprint adding to the momentum, therefore making control more difficult than it would otherwise be.  In time, I expect this to be looked back on and seen as the mistake that it is but by then something else will have come out and few in the community will give it much thought, yet it will have fairly profound effect on the decisions of those who actually work in the industry and how they handle such mechanics. 
 
Though, I do not discourage anyone from trying to convince Carbine to seek a better solution to ground travel, I have little faith the necessary effort will be made by the WildStar community as a whole.  Nonetheless, should someone decide to make this their cause, know that you have my support. :wub:	
----
			
So it seems a lot of people dont really understand the problem with the new sprint. There is the racing issue, which they are answering in a future patch, but the real problem is to create a poor feeling of combat for new players, let me explain.
 
Us old players switch to the run/sprint mode and it feels the same for us, but new players have it default set to permanent sprint. For them they have an all the time speed and a combat speed. To them combat feels slow, and sluggish. To old players it feels the same. New players wont have a good feel for how to avoid things without sprinting, nor will they have a good feel of how much they can sprint.
 
My resolution to this problem is to set run/sprint mode as the default, so new players won't even realize they can toggle it on all the time unless they ask or look into it.
 
What I really want to see is role back to the old version of sprint with unlimited sprint on mounts.	
----
			So you can toggle the sprint off at any time, AND sprint does run out in combat like it used to..... so what the hell is the problem here? How is this bad in any way? People really will complain about anything won't they?
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Mental Surge	
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{| class="blockquote"
If you prefer the original method, use it then.  
----
			
Having been through a lot of various launch-type deals for MMOs...I have to say this issue is fairly ridiculous to me.
 
Sprinting was a means to get around faster and having it be a limited resource outside of combat made long distance travel both tedious and annoying.  Having a maximum movement speed and then NOT moving at that speed when you need to go somewhere is an annoyance.  There's no speed limit to obey so the only reason to not travel as fast as you can is personal preference and many people have already pointed out you can adjust your movement speed preference as you will.  Having an endurance bar for sprinting in combat makes sense both for balance and even immersion issues.  While permanent sprinting may indeed have some immersion breaking...you're not forced to sprint all the time and even then there's no reason not to outside of personal preference.  I'm sorry if anyone feels I'm insulting how they feel about this, as I really have no reason to get people riled up about things when there's already whiners crawling out of the woodwork with the launch issues, but this issue really seems pointless.  If you don't want to sprint all the time that's on you.  If you can't keep up with people who sprint all the time because you choose not to sprint...that's on you.  You can choose to move slower but you don't get to complain when you get left behind.
 
Also to Galactic007: I've played SWTOR a fair bit and unless they've radically changed their sprint mechanic in the last couple months sprint there works similarly to sprint here now, though slightly less so.  SWTOR has a toggled ability that increases your movement speed by 45% at all times outside of combat, not applicable to mounts.  I can't say I've ever seen anyone in that game deliberately toggle off sprint outside of combat for anything other than RP reasons, and I certainly wouldn't say that they only allow sprinting in towns.	
----
			
I've never played Wildstar before today, so I never played it the way it was before.
 
I did find the movement speed to be weird. Considerably quickier than what would feel "natural", I think.
 
It's a though thing to balance - on one hand, moving faster definitely should, theorically, be a good thing, right?
But there's a limit for how fast it should be before it start feelings weird, and right now I think that the constant sprinting is at least slightly above that.
 
A quick "sanity test" of my sentence above can be made by imagining an hypothetical MMORPG where your humanoid characters would constantly run around at over 20km/h. Sure, it would be convenient for moving around, but it wouldn't feel right at all.
 
Of course, as someone who just started, I have no idea of how expansive the areas actually are - so maybe this increased movementspeed might actually be a godsend and I'd have no idea.
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Yellye	
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{| class="blockquote"
I've never played Wildstar before today, so I never played it the way it was before.
 
I did find the movement speed to be weird. Considerably quickier than what would feel "natural", I think.
 
It's a though thing to balance - on one hand, moving faster definitely should, theorically, be a good thing, right?
But there's a limit for how fast it should be before it start feelings weird, and right now I think that the constant sprinting is at least slightly above that.
 
A quick "sanity test" of my sentence above can be made by imagining an hypothetical MMORPG where your humanoid characters would constantly run around at over 20km/h. Sure, it would be convenient for moving around, but it wouldn't feel right at all.
 
Of course, as someone who just started, I have no idea of how expansive the areas actually are - so maybe this increased movementspeed might actually be a godsend and I'd have no idea.
----
			I like it as is it atm.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am a new player (never tried Wildstar before 2 days ago) and I made a post a few hours ago about how much I like the game and the world it brings to life.
 
But actually, if I have 1 negative thing to say about immersion in Wildstar is that indeed the Sprint feature feels kinda amateurish. It is obvious even to a new player like myself that in the game's previous iteration you were not supposed to be running at this speed all the time.
 
First, in my opinion, it affects immersion because the animation just looks bad at that speed. The animation for the normal run speed (not the steroids sprint) is perfect and it conveys a much better sense of weight and substance to the toons. Dunno how to explain it exactly, but with sprint on it's almost as if we, the players, were hastefully pasted on this beautiful canvas, the world, which continues to live and breathe at the speed it is supposed to. It's irritating.
 
Second, it makes the world feel smaller and somewhat trivialises the moment you get a mount.
 
Dunno, for all the fun I am having with Wildstar this is one big irritant in my opinion.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're not meant to travel by foot
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is exactly how low levels ARE meant to travel, on foot. Lots of people do, even high levels. Why do you keep saying that?
 
Of course feet are also meant for traveling..
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No, that's what mounts are for. They're available from level 3, if you want to go from point A to point B, you mount up to make it go faster. If you only want to walk a short distance, you won't bother with a mount, and movement speed isn't that big of an issue.
----
			
As a returning player, I spent the first half hour logged in trying to figure out why sprint was broken.
 
This was a dumb change that wasn't well considered, IMHO.  As others have said, the smart thing to do would have been to remove the endurance cost for sprint outside of combat, and perhaps allow an optional keybinding to toggle it for those who want to use it to travel quickly (again, outside of combat).
 
The jumping puzzles were already challenging enough without removing fine control from our characters.
 
Having your character suddenly slow down because you entered combat feels really wrong... as if we're about to go into some quicktime event or something.	
----
			I'd like to see mount speed increased to sprint levels and the old sprint brought back (stacking!).	
----
			So the entire argument boils down to the fact that they made a change that it seems the vast majority of players prefer. Those that wanted it to stay the old way, still have the option to make it the exact same way it was but refuse to do so, so that they can further complain?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
i don't even understand why they changed it. was this really something people were bitching about? i never once heard a complaint in game about the sprint feature, and i agree it was awesome the way it was.
----
			I agree. I wish sprint had a cool down everywhere again, not just in combat.	
----
			sprint is there still only in combat. Out of combat you're always sprinting and that is GOOD.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So the entire argument boils down to the fact that they made a change that it seems the vast majority of players prefer. Those that wanted it to stay the old way, still have the option to make it the exact same way it was but refuse to do so, so that they can further complain?
----
			
Is it just me or do the animations during combat(with perma sprint mode on) feel and look very strange? Maybe it's just from lag, but it doesn't seem to translate very well and when transitioning out of combat it also feels rather awkward.
 
I'm convinced though that because you basically can get a mount at level 3 they should've jsut done a flat base speed increase. The permanent sprint mode on mounts actually feels about right, but not on foot.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You're correct.
 
I really have to say, this is one of the strangest things I've seen someone complain about. The speed feels great to me.  ^_^
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
sprint is there still only in combat. Out of combat you're always sprinting and that is GOOD.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
sprint is there still only in combat. Out of combat you're always sprinting and that is GOOD.
----
			Oh lord I hope you're kidding. You realize Sprint is permanent when not in combat right?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
As a returning player, I spent the first half hour logged in trying to figure out why sprint was broken.
 
This was a dumb change that wasn't well considered, IMHO.  As others have said, the smart thing to do would have been to remove the endurance cost for sprint outside of combat, and perhaps allow an optional keybinding to toggle it for those who want to use it to travel quickly (again, outside of combat).
 
The jumping puzzles were already challenging enough without removing fine control from our characters.
 
Having your character suddenly slow down because you entered combat feels really wrong... as if we're about to go into some quicktime event or something.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Is it just me or do the animations during combat(with perma sprint mode on) feel and look very strange? Maybe it's just from lag, but it doesn't seem to translate very well and when transitioning out of combat it also feels rather awkward.
 
I'm convinced though that because you basically can get a mount at level 3 they should've jsut done a flat base speed increase. The permanent sprint mode on mounts actually feels about right, but not on foot.
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh lord I hope you're kidding. You realize Sprint is permanent when not in combat right?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm sure that someone has pointed this out already, but if not, here:
 
By default the keypad Del key will change your movement between Auto-run, Walk and Run-mode. Run mode is the old style Sprint.
Use it ;)
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{| class="blockquote"
It is a toggle.
 
You can have it the old way.
 
Now folk are just whining for whinings sake.
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{| class="blockquote"
We know it is a toggle. You could assume that we are whining, or you could assume that we are all adults here, have opinions and preferences and you are more than welcome to join in the conversation without being negative  :)
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{| class="blockquote"
So the entire argument boils down to the fact that they made a change that it seems the vast majority of players prefer. Those that wanted it to stay the old way, still have the option to make it the exact same way it was but refuse to do so, so that they can further complain?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This guy has figured it out, some people here on the forums are just so completely unreasonable and opinionated that it really doesn't matter what you tell them or try to explain, they will just strawman you, search for and nitpick problems where there are none if there is a change that dont work 100% in their own favor to try to revert it. Would you call that being an adult?
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{| class="blockquote"
Wrong.. the people arguing for the old system arent just asking for everything to be slow.  Or to straight revert the patch.  They want a different solution to the travel problem (namely faster mounts).  
 
A different solution would keep everyone still getting around as fast as post change but still have the added interaction of sprinting ONTOP of things being faster than they were back before the change.
 
So no one is asking to go back to being slower, we just want a different kind of fast.
 
 
There were also those settler things for faster movespeed that could be expanded on.
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{| class="blockquote"
OMG how are there so many pages on this subject when there a guy on the first page that said there a toggle option if you dont like it then turn it off
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			OMG how are there so many pages on this subject when there a guy on the first page that said there a toggle option if you dont like it then turn it off
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by iceypenguin	
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How do you even stop sprinting ? 
My character does nothing but sprint constantly o.O
 
Quite annoying with that sprinting icon showing at all times as well.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Maybe if you actually learn to read, cupcake, you'd realize we all know that. Its been said over and over. Even in the OP.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
How do you even stop sprinting ? 
My character does nothing but sprint constantly o.O
 
Quite annoying with that sprinting icon showing at all times as well.
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			I was able to use the default toggle on the PTR, but it is not working for me in live. I got fed up with trying to fix it last night, hopefully i can figure out whats up tonight.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Maybe if you actually learn to read, cupcake, you'd realize we all know that. Its been said over and over. Even in the OP.
----
			I'd quote Ricky Bobby here, but I feel it's ok to just leave it unsaid.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"as the entire crux of this issue is that people dislike a change that was made and, realistically, refuse to cope with the fact that it won't be changed back."
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I have to say, I definitely dislike it. Thankfully there is a toggle, so personally I just have my run toggled on and shift sprint like usual. I dont think it's super intuitive if you do want to change it though, and the perma sprint makes running seem slidey/floaty when it really isn't. 
 
From what I gather in other action combat / sprinting games, this is pretty common to have perma sprint out of combat. So this might be par for course now that we are free to play.
 
Oh well, while I disagree with the design, at least I have my old way with me so that I can play the same as before	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There needs to be a way to inform new players that there are different movement modes.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Since this isn't the case in combat, I fail to see how having a sprint meter when you're not fighting anything adds any real depth to the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It made navigating the world and jump puzzles more dynamic.  "I need to save my sprint for up ahead to clear that larger jump obstacle"
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
the perma sprint makes running seem slidey/floaty when it really isn't. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It IS slidey/floaty, and it has nothing to do with permasprint, its due to the fact that this game has momentum.
----
			
Could not disagree more.  I really disliked the sprint button - it was not cool or fun. You basically just had to always push an extra button to walk.
 
I'd be ok if they wanted to toggle this feature for those who want it back, but I really hope they don't remove auto sprint.  It makes this game tolerable for me.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Could not disagree more.  I really disliked the sprint button - it was not cool or fun. You basically just had to always push an extra button to walk.
 
I'd be ok if they wanted to toggle this feature for those who want it back, but I really hope they don't remove auto sprint.  It makes this game tolerable for me.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
----
			
Wow this degraded again to the same "if you dont like it toggle it" in a few posts.
 
Okay... some people like the added MANAGEMENT of using the LIMITED SPRINT RESOURCE on the best point possible or to do tricks or whatever while moving around.
 
Some people find it tedious.
 
This is a difference in opinions.
 
Im fairly certain everyone that advocates having a limited sprint is also advocating for something that still leaves the people that find it tedious to travel just as fast anyway without using sprint while the people that enjoy using it have it at their disposal to an extra boost once in a while.
 
All i feel am getting from the people that find it tedious is something along the lines of "its stupid, toggle it, stfu".  How about some ideas, or compromise, or civil discussion without resorting to some finality where your point doesnt matter because I dont like it?
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Scrangos	
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It is still enabled in combat and 100% of the time in PvP. 
 
 
How does having to sprint with a hoverboard and bike make any sense to begin with? Stop crying...if you miss it that much hold down shift for 5 hours at a time for no adequately explored reason. 
 
I for one enjoy zipping around Illium without having to tap sprint constantly. 
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Kaori1	
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{| class="blockquote"
Wow this degraded again to the same "if you dont like it toggle it" in a few posts.
 
Okay... some people like the added MANAGEMENT of using the LIMITED SPRINT RESOURCE on the best point possible or to do tricks or whatever while moving around.
 
Some people find it tedious.
 
This is a difference in opinions.
 
Im fairly certain everyone that advocates having a limited sprint is also advocating for something that still leaves the people that find it tedious to travel just as fast anyway without using sprint while the people that enjoy using it have it at their disposal to an extra boost once in a while.
 
All i feel am getting from the people that find it tedious is something along the lines of "its stupid, toggle it, stfu".  How about some ideas, or compromise, or civil discussion without resorting to some finality where your point doesnt matter because I dont like it?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is still enabled in combat and in 100% of the time in PvP. 
 
 
How does having to sprint with a hoverboard and bike make any sense to begin with? Stop crying...if you miss it that much hold down shift for 5 hours at a time for no adequately explored reason. 
 
I for one enjoy zipping around Illium without having to tap sprint constantly. 
----
			
*/sigh* People are so vile...
 
I understand the loss, it is a game changer for sure. A "boost meter" for mounts is an interesting idea (think "overdrive" for hoverboards), and I understand people saying that having unlimited sprint is kind of a immersion breaker (Gronoks? Infinite sprint? Mhmm...), but I don't really know what we should do. We can't give people options, because then not everyone is on a level playing field for say, PVP, dungeons, these "trick" spots or what have you, etc etc, so if there is to be a resource to manage, it kinda has to be implemented for everyone. Most people like the infinite sprint though, and the people on here being vocal about their distaste for it actually only represent a small minority. So....yeah I don't really know what people want, and I guarantee we will never be able to please everyone, there's just too many of us.
 
That being said, please try to be a bit more courteous to other's feelings when you post. There's no need to be so disrespectful to other people's opinions...
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Zynlli	
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{| class="blockquote"
I've never played Wildstar before today, so I never played it the way it was before.
 
I did find the movement speed to be weird. Considerably quickier than what would feel "natural", I think.
 
It's a though thing to balance - on one hand, moving faster definitely should, theorically, be a good thing, right?
But there's a limit for how fast it should be before it start feelings weird, and right now I think that the constant sprinting is at least slightly above that.
 
A quick "sanity test" of my sentence above can be made by imagining an hypothetical MMORPG where your humanoid characters would constantly run around at over 20km/h. Sure, it would be convenient for moving around, but it wouldn't feel right at all.
 
Of course, as someone who just started, I have no idea of how expansive the areas actually are - so maybe this increased movementspeed might actually be a godsend and I'd have no idea.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The thing is, people think that sprint is supposed to be used to move fast all the time. But in reality it is meant to be temporal movement boost. So obviously those ignorant people whined about it and it got changed.
----
			You guys know you can toggle your speed mode with the period key on the num-pad, right?	
----
			The thing is, people think that sprint is supposed to be used to move fast all the time. But in reality it is meant to be temporal movement boost. So obviously those ignorant people whined about it and it got changed.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There already is a compromise for both parties and that compromise is the toggle.
 
There is literally no point to there being a limited resource for sprint outside of combat other than immersion and the toggle allows people to deal with that.
 
Managing your sprint so you can move slightly faster for 5 second bursts is a hassle and, when I'm playing video games, I certainly don't want to be hassled.  I, and presumably a fair number of other people, don't feel that endurance management is an interesting enough mechanic to merit its continued existence outside of combat.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
THIS GAME IS DEAD LOL GG GIVE ME MORE AION PATCHES TY!
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{| class="blockquote"
I really don't understand why Carbine decided to remove such a great feature of the game. Having a cool down on sprint was a fun aspect of the game even though I know some will disagree. Being able to hold the sprint modifier and fly around quickly on a mount or hit it right before you are about to jump off a cliff to get some extra distance was a very fun enjoyable experience I had when the game first launched. 
 
I log in today for F2P and to my surprise I find out that sprint is active 24/7 and you can toggle it off so you can use your ctrl modifier again, but the cool down is completely removed still. There's really no point in even having the auto sprint disabled now because you will just be wanting to hold down the modifier 24/7 to keep running fast. The only time I see it being disabled is to make shorter jumps without over extending. 
 
I really hate what they did to sprint. I was called a keyboard warrior when I started complaining about it in zone chat.
Honestly though it feels like the game seriously took a big hit with this change.
It felt good to use sprint especially cruising around on your mount. 
The cooldown is important for this to work right as well because it makes sprint have value.
Now it's just a pointless mechanic.
 
Here's someone else who made a video about the subject.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ2Zn04CztI
 
I feel like this change was catered to the super casual group of people and seems like wildstar is going down the path of WOW where everything gets nerfed to hell.
----
			
I actually prefer the new sprint, always on until combat.
 
Use shift while in combat to use sprint. It's actually more realistic then the old way.
			
				
	Edited October 1, 2015 by Equa1ity	
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{| class="blockquote"
And what if you could keep your current movement speed but we could get a sprint YOU dont have to use because you're already moving like you are moving right now?
 
----
			I prefer the unlimited sprint, it would have been a problem only if it was unlimited while in combat too.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It does in a sense of "putting the pedal to the metal" approach and makes for fun racing events.
----
			I agree, my equivar looks so ridiculous in permasprint. I swapped to the hoverboard, but my character bends over to be aerodynamic and his back hurts :(It used to be somewhat relaxing to cruise on a hoverboard between fights, and now my character looks like he's constantly trying to beat a speed record. Everyone looks on a rush, now... Life's not a race.Why didn't they just speed mounts up and keep the walking animation ? Or let us chose what animation we wanted ?I just don't understand.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Go back to watching 2 fast 2 furious pls. Also, learn to toggle your sprint back to its pre f2p state...don't force others to suffer under a terrible movement system just because you have a different opinion. No one is forcing you to use the new system kthx.
----
			
If it was fun using sprint to jump and dodge and do fun stuff....now you can do it without stopping!!
Everyone has their thing that bothers them, but this is seriously one of those things that I love.  I can get places quicker and still have the option to turn it off if I'm bein goofy RP-like.  Also...it goes back to standard mode in combat, so the change is simply to make travel life easier.
 
But again....to each their own.  If you don't like it, you don't like it.  =)	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Did you even read what the topic was about ? You can't just toggle back to pre-F2P state. The option does not exist. Also, you're pointing out his statement is an opinion, yet you still call this "terrible movement system" as a fact. While that's an opinion.
 
Double standards....tsk-tsk.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Someone else already made a similar argument: If you have the option to move faster you're going to use it.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is the point I sorta wanted to bring with what you replied to.  The same way everyone is dismissing the limited sprint argument with a toggle without thinking about it twice is similar to how bad it is to have the sprint for those that will OCD if they dont move to the maximum available speed.  Theres no perfect solution.  The "easy answer" to toggle still feels pretty horrible even if the people replying dont understand why.  And the same way people say "dont force us to live with sprint" is the same way others are posting in a way to "force us to live without" the mini management of it.
 
So like someone mentioned above me, theres a lot of double standards and thats kinda what annoys me the most.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This entire thread just smacks of click bait-y things to try and stir up controversy rather than having an actual problem of merit.
----