115520-say-no-to-f2p

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I am going to steal one from Olivar here...
 
 
I have a feeling this will get locked but hopefully not get me in trouble? <.<	
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			Title says it all. The Devs are listening so have your voice heard: NO to F2P!	
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			Agree, I will be gone.  I will log in one last time, tell my guildmates that I am quitting and then quit.  I refuse to try and play an MMO with raiding in a F2P setting.	
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Donatelli's wording in the latest mmorpg.com interview has me really worried. It's the exact same wording companies use when they're already planning on going F2P but they just don't want to admit it yet.
 
I will hope I'm just being paranoid, because that is not something I want for this game. :\	
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Donatelli's wording in the latest mmorpg.com interview has me really worried. It's the exact same wording companies use when they're already planning on going F2P but they just don't want to admit it yet.
 
I will hope I'm just being paranoid, because that is not something I want for this game. :\
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Definitely not F2P, but how do you guys feel about it going B2P, like GW2?
 
I like the idea of CREDD, there's nothing wrong with it, but the $60 entry fee is what puts me off. I was in the Beta and I'm currently using up my 7 day pass. I'm really enjoying the game, but I am certainly not willing to shell out the price of a AAA game with the knowledge that I will probably be paying for the game round about every second month.
 
I'd say bring the price down to $20, that would be fine, but to me the game just doesn't merit that initial high cost. It would do the game good to lower it and get more people in the game, and with the bad rep it's receiving, I just can't fathom why the developers wouldn't lower the price. I feel it's hurting them more than anything else. A good sale might entice people to try the game out.
 
As for going F2P... No.	
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I really don't care what business model they use, I'm into this game and would still log on F2P or otherwise.
 
Can people give more info why they are so against the F2P model? It seemed to work for Rift ok, and I for one would totally pay for patron like status. What are peoples biggest complaints with the game going that direction?	
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			I'd still play if it went F2P. I'd throw money at a cash shop, too. I love this game.	
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Do I need to say it again?  In other threads, I've given better alternatives in other threads and told them that if F2P is implemented, I am leaving.  There is no model or subtext that I come out ahead in this equation if they do.  I have absolutely zero desire to make the choice between paying more money or getting less content.
 
If F2P is implemented, there won't be an "I Quit" thread; they have all the feedback from me they need.  I will toss GMship to someone else, be gone, and never speak of NCSoft or their products with any sympathy again, because they will have proven their bad reputation right.
 
Also, to be constructive, if they came out and said they weren't going F2P for at least a year unless the games money figures go completely upside down, I said I'd sub for a year.  If NCSoft is ready to back Carbine, I'm ready to back them for a year with no more questions asked.
 
But if this game goes F2P, I will vanish and Wildstar will become another good idea that didn't deliver.  Whatever Wildstar becomes over the remainder of its life, I have no desire to see.  A game like Wildstar doesn't become a vehicle to wring money out of people without making some critical sacrifices.	
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I really don't care what business model they use, I'm into this game and would still log on F2P or otherwise.
 
Can people give more info why they are so against the F2P model? It seemed to work for Rift ok, and I for one would totally pay for patron like status. What are peoples biggest complaints with the game going that direction?
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No to cash shop.
No to I need to spend real money just to progress.
No to F2P.
 
Yes to paying monthly sub.	
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			No to F2P too.	
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I really don't care what business model they use, I'm into this game and would still log on F2P or otherwise.
 
Can people give more info why they are so against the F2P model? It seemed to work for Rift ok, and I for one would totally pay for patron like status. What are peoples biggest complaints with the game going that direction?
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Also, to be constructive, if they came out and said they weren't going F2P for at least a year unless the games money figures go completely upside down, I said I'd sub for a year.  If NCSoft is ready to back Carbine, I'm ready to back them for a year with no more questions asked.
 
But if this game goes F2P, I will vanish and Wildstar will become another good idea that didn't deliver.  Whatever Wildstar becomes over the remainder of its life, I have no desire to see.  A game like Wildstar doesn't become a vehicle to wring money out of people without making some critical sacrifices.
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			No to F2P. Played many of those and they all have something ruining the game in the cash shop even if it's cleverly hidden it is there and ppl will throw money at it and simply destroy the game for the ones that won't.	
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Meh, I'm not overly concerned with the business model that Carbine chooses to be honest.  Sub, B2P, F2P, hybrid... It's all the same to me.  Is the game fun?  Will it retain my interest?  For the time being, it certainly does.  I can't imagine switching the business model would be enough of an incentive for me to force myself to stop enjoying it.  If that were to happen over the course of time, then it happens, but I certainly don't think I could blame it solely on the business model.  I like this game, I'll play it regardless.
 
If they did offer an optional subscription plan, and under the condition that I would continue to have full access to the contents of the game while subscribed, I could see myself taking Carbine up on the offer (assuming it was offered).  That actually says quite a bit I think.  I've played several F2P and B2P games, the most recent being Archeage.  All good in their own right, but the combat mechanics were the same general set of mechanics that I used in WoW for the past 10 years, so I did lose interest in those games (never formally "quit", just took an indefinite break).  I didn't lose interest because of the business model though, or the lack of content, but the moment to moment gameplay was something that I've done, well, for about a decade now.
 
Made some good friends while playing, but alas, the ebb and flow... you know how it goes.	
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Meh, I'm not overly concerned with the business model that Carbine chooses to be honest.  Sub, B2P, F2P, hybrid... It's all the same to me.  Is the game fun?  Will it retain my interest?  For the time being, it certainly does.  I can't imagine switching the business model would be enough of an incentive for me to force myself to stop enjoying it.  If that were to happen over the course of time, then it happens, but I certainly don't think I could blame it solely on the business model.  I like this game, I'll play it regardless.
 
If they did offer an optional subscription plan, and under the condition that I would continue to have full access to the contents of the game while subscribed, I could see myself taking Carbine up on the offer (assuming it was offered).  That actually says quite a bit I think.  I've played several F2P and B2P games, the most recent being Archeage.  All good in their own right, but the combat mechanics were the same general set of mechanics that I used in WoW for the past 10 years, so I did lose interest in those games (never formally "quit", just took an indefinite break).  I didn't lose interest because of the business model though, or the lack of content, but the moment to moment gameplay was something that I've done, well, for about a decade now.
 
Made some good friends while playing, but alas, the ebb and flow... you know how it goes.
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			I say yes to free to play and i actually give a reason why i would support it...    It will bring in a lot more income(cash shop), population will increase cause people will have a better chance to see if they like the game letting them play the basic game for free, and if they do i say still keep the CREED and sub for 15 dollars with incentives for subscribing.  DC universe did the same thing when they went free to play over three years ago and they been around for almost 4 years.  	
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Do I need to say it again?  In other threads, I've given better alternatives in other threads and told them that if F2P is implemented, I am leaving.  There is no model or subtext that I come out ahead in this equation if they do.  I have absolutely zero desire to make the choice between paying more money or getting less content.
 
If F2P is implemented, there won't be an "I Quit" thread; they have all the feedback from me they need.  I will toss GMship to someone else, be gone, and never speak of NCSoft or their products with any sympathy again, because they will have proven their bad reputation right.
 
Also, to be constructive, if they came out and said they weren't going F2P for at least a year unless the games money figures go completely upside down, I said I'd sub for a year.  If NCSoft is ready to back Carbine, I'm ready to back them for a year with no more questions asked.
 
But if this game goes F2P, I will vanish and Wildstar will become another good idea that didn't deliver.  Whatever Wildstar becomes over the remainder of its life, I have no desire to see.  A game like Wildstar doesn't become a vehicle to wring money out of people without making some critical sacrifices.
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No to cash shop.
No to I need to spend real money just to progress.
No to F2P.
 
Yes to paying monthly sub.
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Definitely not F2P, but how do you guys feel about it going B2P, like GW2?
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That's not feasible. They've already made their money from box sales. All converting to B2P would do is cut off the influx of money they're currently making from subs.
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			If the games goes F2P I'll still play it. It;s a solid game with good mechanics and a wonderful story and setting. 	
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They said they don't have the structure for F2P. What's the point of this thread?
 
Besides, so long as you enjoy the game you'll throw money at it. FFXIV didn't have a cash shop until players demanded one in the form of Fantasia potions. They were even willing to pay for hairstyles and certain unavailable seasonal gear. "Sell Lightning hair pls!"
 
Lets face it: Who really knows what they want.	
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I'll still play the game if it does, which I really hope it does NOT, at least not become the hot mess that is SWTOR.
 
Hey how would you like to hide your helmet???  Want to show titles?  Want to dye your gear? Want to run a dungeon?
 
... Want to do anything besides stand around town?
 
-insert money here-	
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I feel like they would lose a lot of the people that stayed around during the "turbulent" time and it will all back fire if they went f2p.
 
I would, not because I hate the game, I absolutely love it. I just don't agree with anything being behind a "hidden" paywall.	
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No to cash shop.
No to I need to spend real money just to progress.
No to F2P.
 
Yes to paying monthly sub.
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But it would be a lot fiscally friendly for the modern gamer. Don't have to worry about sacrificing pizza money for game night.
 
Pizza ish gud
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In an ideal world games would release on a traditional $15 sub, but the sub would decrease as the player base expands. Want to help a small niche game with limited interest? Pay a premium, but the number of voices calling for change is that much smaller so your opinions mean more. Want to play a giant like WoW? You pay a small amount, the publishers and studio still make healthy income, but the 'vocal masses' will guide the game's direction (which is exactly what happened).
 
I see this as a pretty fair system, personally. As much as I love WoW I'm pretty sure their level of productivity did not correlate to the insane ballooning of income they received from 12 million subs + the later cash shop sales. If you apply this same system to Wildstar, we'd likely all be paying the 15$ sub right now, but if Carbine's strong foundations become polished enough and the game proves itself deserving of a mass audience, everyone would catch a break and the game would become more accessible. Both good things.
 
I say this because the #1 argument against sub models I hear is that it's a rip-off, it's dated, and it does not favour the customer. I think most of this sentiment is a consequence of WoW. As soon as that company started to rake in shocking levels of cash for a video game, people started to get a hell of a lot more vocal about their displeasure with the system. And I agree with them in principle, the quality and amount of content from WoW did not match the increase in gains at all and after some years it began to feel a bit  silly. But then the alternative model of F2P is frequently paywalls and people who think 'free' means license to d-bag, so that's not good either.
 
Anyway, all said, I cast my vote for No, but as I don't play this game competitively, at this point I would wait to see how Wildstar F2P is designed before quitting.
 
And hey, I've spent a pretty significant chunk of money buying CREDD to gain access to the housing decor I couldn't possibly afford given how much time it takes to build large-scale projects. So technically, I'm already playing a cash shop game. :wacko:	
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I don't think you understand. Say Carbine sold 200,000 boxes and now they have 50,000 subs. They've already spent the money they got from box sales, and what's keeping the company afloat is the money coming in from subscriptions. If they make it B2P, they could potentially attract new players (I would imagine that a substantial number of people who would play have already bought the game), but they'd immediately cut off $500-750,000 a month coming in from subscriptions. They're not going to do that.
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They said they don't have the structure for F2P. What's the point of this thread?
 
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			I'd rather this game be alive than dead.	
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			Go F2P if it's best for the company.	
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F2P games are not successful high quality MMORPG's??? LOL
 	
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I won't leave if they go f2p, but I rather have it stay a sub game. Sub games tend to have better less toxic community.
 
 
 
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F2P games are not successful MMORPG's? LOL
 
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I won't leave if they go f2p, but I rather have it stay a sub game. Sub games tend to have better less toxic community.
 
 
 
 
Technically that's B2P. I think people are talking about games like Neverwinter when they're talking about f2p.
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			How about, free until level 15?	
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How about, free until level 15?
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Your avatar is perfect for that post.
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Also, saying sub games are less toxic....it's hard to agree with that considering the fact that League of Legends is like walking into Disney's Magical Kingdom. One slip of the tongue is a perma ban...
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DOTA's community is horrible, I can't imagine League is any better?  Every game of DOTA I play is a 50/50 chance someone will rage hard, quit early and ruin the game, go on a racist tangent, or just be a big bag of poop. Add the language barriers and it's close to gaming hell sometimes.
 
edited for language lol, I thought the forum would *cupcake* it for me. :P
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			I'd rather see it go f2p than die. By dieing I mean too small population to be able to play the game properly.	
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I'd rather see it go f2p than die. By dieing I mean too small population to be able to play the game properly.
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			A few people threatening to rage quit if the game goes F2P, like it will impact raiding _at all_ what's the worst that could happen? More people in lvling zones and running around thyad? Baddies in BGs (because they could possibly get worse)?	
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This AGAIN?
 
Guys. It's not up for a vote. It's not ever going to be up for a vote.
 
If NCSoft thinks the game will make more money as F2P, it will go F2P, or B2P at a minimum. They will not ask the opinions of any of the current players, because there aren't enough to keep the game as profitable as they want it to be or this wouldn't even be an issue.  NCSoft won't do this to ruin your game or *cupcake* you off -- they will do it, if they do it, because the alternative is shutting the game down. And while there are some terrible people out there who believe that the game should shut down if it isn't run in a way that suits them, I'm sure NCSoft doesn't share that opinion, and they own the game and call the shots.  Not the players. Not the devs. If the devs try to stage a revolt to stop an F2P conversion, they'll be out on their butts in under an hour with a burly security guard right behind them handing them the box containing the personal items from their desks.
 
NCSoft owns this game. All of it. Every last server, every line of code, every bit, every byte. 
 
NCSoft is very fond of making money. NCSoft supports the development of games in order to make money and not for any other reason.  This is their business model and they have been absolutely true to it -- just check their history. There were more than a few people who refused to even try Wildstar, just on the grounds that NCSoft produced it and NCSoft has a well-deserved reputation for not coddling underperforming MMOs, meaning that yes, failure to perform would mean serious changes in very short order.  If you thought differently when you signed on, you didn't do your research.  
 
If Wildstar is not performing financially -- and signs certainly point that way -- Wildstar will change or Wildstar will die.  
 
The only possible difference all of this flailing and screaming about "NO F2P NOOOOO!" could possibly make is to convince NCSoft that there's no point at all in trying to salvage the game with a business model transition, so that they just shut it down instead, without even trying to save it.  The notion that by screaming how much you hate talk of F2P on the forums you can somehow ...uh....make NCSoft feel guilty or something so they become magically okay with pouring more money into an underperforming product because that's less painful to them than listening to you all scream...or...something?...is...well, it's incomprehensible. I just don't follow what you're hoping to accomplish.  NCSoft couldn't give two damp splats about what the game's players want -- ask any CoX fan.  They are not suddenly going to start caring about player preferences, either.  They care about financial performance, and that's it.  
 
I swear when I read threads like these -- just like the old threads that used to pop up about how casuals were all whiners and needed to GTFO of Wildstar because it was for TEH LEETS ONLY -- all I can think is, "With fans like these, Wildstar has no need of enemies."  If you can't have the game the way you want it, you'd rather it died so that no one can enjoy it, like the Dog in the Manger. (Google it if you're not familiar.)  Unsub by all means if you don't like whatever model change NCSoft and Carbine come up with (and yes, there will be one), because that is absolutely your right and you should exercise it,  but stop trying to extort NCSoft with threats. It won't work.  The only possible change you could make is that you kill the game completely.  
 
So if that's your goal -- carry on! 	
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I have been playing MMOs for years, and honestly, I have yet to see what I deem as a fair F2P system. Swtor you still basically need a sub to play to its full potential, AND they now have chests you can buy for goodies. Quite frankly, they basically raised the price. AoC charges for certain content that cannot even be accessed. Tera I cannot speak for. I have heard good and bad things. A few months ago I would have sworn Rift was the only F2P model that was fair, but unfortunately my views have changed.
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I really don't care what business model they use, I'm into this game and would still log on F2P or otherwise.
 
Can people give more info why they are so against the F2P model? It seemed to work for Rift ok, and I for one would totally pay for patron like status. What are peoples biggest complaints with the game going that direction?
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			I don't want F2P but, that is were we are heading ... Wildstar is following the same path SWTOR took only about a year sooner.  (How did this game fail so fast ... ? )	
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This AGAIN?
 
Guys. It's not up for a vote. It's not ever going to be up for a vote.
 
If NCSoft thinks the game will make more money as F2P, it will go F2P, or B2P at a minimum. They will not ask the opinions of any of the current players, because there aren't enough to keep the game as profitable as they want it to be or this wouldn't even be an issue.  NCSoft won't do this to ruin your game or *cupcake* you off -- they will do it, if they do it, because the alternative is shutting the game down. And while there are some terrible people out there who believe that the game should shut down if it isn't run in a way that suits them, I'm sure NCSoft doesn't share that opinion, and they own the game and call the shots.  Not the players. Not the devs. If the devs try to stage a revolt to stop an F2P conversion, they'll be out on their butts in under an hour with a burly security guard right behind them handing them the box containing the personal items from their desks.
 
NCSoft owns this game. All of it. Every last server, every line of code, every bit, every byte. 
 
NCSoft is very fond of making money. NCSoft supports the development of games in order to make money and not for any other reason.  This is their business model and they have been absolutely true to it -- just check their history. There were more than a few people who refused to even try Wildstar, just on the grounds that NCSoft produced it and NCSoft has a well-deserved reputation for not coddling underperforming MMOs, meaning that yes, failure to perform would mean serious changes in very short order.  If you thought differently when you signed on, you didn't do your research.  
 
If Wildstar is not performing financially -- and signs certainly point that way -- Wildstar will change or Wildstar will die.  
 
The only possible difference all of this flailing and screaming about "NO F2P NOOOOO!" could possibly make is to convince NCSoft that there's no point at all in trying to salvage the game with a business model transition, so that they just shut it down instead, without even trying to save it.  The notion that by screaming how much you hate talk of F2P on the forums you can somehow ...uh....make NCSoft feel guilty or something so they become magically okay with pouring more money into an underperforming product because that's less painful to them than listening to you all scream...or...something?...is...well, it's incomprehensible. I just don't follow what you're hoping to accomplish.  NCSoft couldn't give two wet damp splats about what the game's players want -- ask any CoX fan.  They are not suddenly going to start caring about player preferences, either.  They care about financial performance, and that's it.  
 
I swear when I read threads like these -- just like the old threads that used to pop up about how casuals were all whiners and needed to GTFO of Wildstar because it was for TEH LEETS ONLY -- all I can think is, "With fans like these, Wildstar has no need of enemies."  If you can't have the game the way you want it, you'd rather it died so that no one can enjoy it, like the Dog in the Manger. (Google it if you're not familiar.)  Unsub by all means if you don't like whatever model change NCSoft and Carbine come up with (and yes, there will be one), because that is absolutely your right and you should exercise it,  but stop trying to extort NCSoft with threats. It won't work.  The only possible change you could make is that you kill the game completely.  
 
So if that's your goal -- carry on! 
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			Word! Keep it a sub game. F2p is for peasants.	
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I don't want F2P but, that is were we are heading ... Wildstar is following the same path SWTOR took only about a year sooner.  (How did this game fail so fast ... ? )
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			Just wanted to add my no to F2P as well.  This game is too phenomenal and has too much content to not be a sub, plus...CREDD.  (Especially since the ONLY good F2P system I have ever seen is LoL and that's not an MMO)	
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Just wanted to add my no to F2P as well.  This game is too phenomenal and has too much content to not be, plus...CREDD.  (Especially since the ONLY good F2P system I have ever seen is LoL and that's not an MMO)
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I'd still play if it went F2P. I'd throw money at a cash shop, too. I love this game.
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This game won't ever be like Neverwinter because too much went into production. I do see this game going the B2P route though. I think a lot of people confuse the two including myself some times. I think there are a lot of people that think that you guys are just talking about dropping the subscription. Dropping both the price of the subscription and the price of the game itself is insane though....
 
Also, saying sub games are less toxic....it's hard to agree with that considering the fact that League of Legends is like walking into Disney's Magical Kingdom. One slip of the tongue is a perma ban...
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			just wanted to add my opinion, i hope devs are listening, F2P is SHIT for MMO's it is cancer andi will not take part in it	
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The game isn't dead, and there are a lot of changes coming that have a good chance of bringing lots of people back.
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Title says it all. The Devs are listening so have your voice heard: NO to F2P!
 
 
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I think the new player influx could steady out the lost mandatory box price. Plus, they could try branching out into other media. I don't think Wildstar has developed any novel series or web cartoons yet. That could be a useful form of alternate revenue.
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			I know I said months ago that if it went free to play I'd quit. But things have changed. I'm the leader of the best guild on Lightspire, I've got a great community in there. I'm not ready to leave that. I'm not going to quit if it goes free to play, will I lose faith in Carbine Studios? Yes. But quitting? Nah.	
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Every voice that comments on the game has the potential to inspire change. I don't know if it is a game within a game.. but even the possibility of it can bring great changes to how history unfolds for Wildstar.
 
I am intimidated by all the people (actively) enabling the studio to quit the fight and just go F2P.
 
I don't see the F2P model at this point as necessary switch for the survival of the game (as it is sadly being promoted by older forum threads) but rather an 'easy way out' from the struggles of building a stable and successful P2P MMO game.
 
Logically speaking, shouldn't there be some other steps before going F2P?
 
For example:
Fixing game-breaking, community-affecting, population-decreasing bugs.
Intense advertising and promotion.
Free trial accounts to level 15 (or even a 'play for free weekend').
Assigning more resources to the PR team?
Giving 7 days of promotional free-time to old accounts after all the fixes?
 
There are still population-decreasing bugs that have not been addressed yet (yes guild 'last online' I am looking at you :P).
 
A F2P model should be considered one of the very last choices, not a popular forum topic 3 months after release..and yea, clearly building a good P2P game takes work, patience and a supportive playerbase.
 
This is a brilliant new game and I want to see them fight for it.
 
If they fight, I will be supportive. The game is worth it.	
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			No to F2P. I specifically looked for a mmo that was subscription based and if this goes F2P, then I'll be off looking for something else.	
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I don't want F2P but, that is were we are heading ... Wildstar is following the same path SWTOR took only about a year sooner.  (How did this game fail so fast ... ? )
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I am intimidated by all the people (actively) enabling the studio to quit the fight and just go F2P....This is a brilliant new game and I want to see them fight for it. If they fight, I will be supportive. The game is worth it.
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Can someone that is pro F2P please explain why they are ok with a service fees for Netflix amazon Hulu and many other service both online and off but when it is a game/service they go ape over it ?
How is a subscription to a game any different than say cable TV or any other luxury service that you pay monthly for? cell phone service ? internet service on your phone?  I really want to understand . 
To me I pay monthly to have a persistent world and new content from time to time provided at no additional charge. it is the same as Netflix I pay for it every month I use it more some months than others and not at all some times but I pay for it so that its there when I want it.
Convince is something we have always paid for.
It is becoming more and more visible now as more of population pays for it but it always has been and always will be something you buy to save time or make your life a bit more convenient for you. 	
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I personally hate free-to-play to death and I really don't think it would work well for this game. It would turn into just another FTP crap MMO.
 
However I think this game could really benefit from a permanent LIMITED free trial. You'd have no access to chat, trading, mail, etc. (unless the other person had you on their friends list or something)
 
Just let people get into the game, level up to a decently high level to see dungeons, adventures, shiphands, pvp, and some of the leveling content without rushing them at all. Then if they decide to buy the game they have their character's restrictions removed and they can go about the game normally.
 
The truth is that a lot of people who play free-to-play MMO's bring very little value to the game in terms of revenue or community. They're the least invested and most fickle people. The free-to-play model relies on "whales" who spend insane amounts of money to offset the costs of the leech FTP players. This in-turn makes the game much worse for FANS of the game who want to have access to all the content and pay a reasonable price for it.
 
The problem with these people that are lobbying for free-to-play is that they never have any intentions of spending money. They just bounce from one FTP game to the next. I'm guilty of this myself so some degree.
Here's a great article that sort of sums of what I'm saying (and is written better)
 
http://www.vg247.com/2013/04/12/camelot-unchained-dev-free-to-play-headed-towards-an-apocalypse-in-3-5-years-time/	
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Can someone that is pro F2P please explain why they are ok with a service fees for Netflix amazon Hulu and many other service both online and off but when it is a game/service they go ape over it ?
How is a subscription to a game any different than say cable TV or any other luxury service that you pay monthly for? cell phone service ? internet service on your phone?  I really want to understand . 
To me I pay monthly to have a persistent world and new content from time to time provided at no additional charge. it is the same as Netflix I pay for it every month I use it more some months than others and not at all some times but I pay for it so that its there when I want it.
Convince is something we have always paid for.
It is becoming more and more visible now as more of population pays for it but it always has been and always will be something you buy to save time or make your life a bit more convenient for you. 
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			And this means you have to make a choice as to how you spend your money.  Priorities and all that.  This is nothing new.  If one can not afford all the things they would like they need to determine which are more important to them.  In all the things you mentioned, these are luxury items.  $15 a month is NOTHING compared to the average amount one pays for all the luxury items in your example.  $15 is about the price of going to the movies for one person in some places, the price of buy a movie outright if on sale, the price of a 12 pack of adult beverages, the price of a pizza, the price of a case of soda, etc.  You get the idea.  There are plenty of other places to cut back to afford $15 a month to play a game.  It's about personal priorities.  But, "these choices seem to be too hard to make for many today". <_< 	
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The current system is perfect and does not need to go free to play. People are not leaving
the game because they have to spend 15 dollars a month or CREDD, they are leaving the game because of terrible ideas (putting random rune rolls on PVP gear for example)	
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{| class="blockquote"
And this means you have to make a choice as to how you spend your money.  Priorities and all that.  This is nothing new.  If one can not afford all the things they would like they need to determine which are more important to them.  In all the things you mentioned, these are luxury items.  $15 a month is NOTHING compared to the average amount one pays for all the luxury items in your example.  $15 is about the price of going to the movies for one person in some places, the price of buy a movie outright if on sale, the price of a 12 pack of adult beverages, the price of a pizza, the price of a case of soda, etc.  You get the idea.  There are plenty of other places to cut back to afford $15 a month to play a game.  It's about personal priorities.  But, "these choices seem to be too hard to make for many today". <_<
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of course NO!!!
 
but unfortunatelly devs think about money rather than about players... and f2p will bring them huge profit together with item shop.... game will become crap like other p2w but who cares as long as it generate profit....
 
this is sad where mmorpg industry is going....
 
I just bought another month of subscription even if I am not playing really too much, just to support the company who at least tried to make a challenging mmorpg in the world filled with crap pay to win farming mmo's...but I am going to forget about this game if it will go f2p....
 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Too hardcore for the current casual consumer market.
 
If this game came out 14 years ago, it might have been a big sell.
 
You know, before World of Warcraft showed up and showed everyone you don't have to devote all your time to an MMO at the sacrifice of your personal life.
 
O_O
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Can someone that is pro F2P please explain why they are ok with a service fees for Netflix amazon Hulu and many other service both online and off but when it is a game/service they go ape over it ?
How is a subscription to a game any different than say cable TV or any other luxury service that you pay monthly for? cell phone service ? internet service on your phone?  I really want to understand . 
To me I pay monthly to have a persistent world and new content from time to time provided at no additional charge. it is the same as Netflix I pay for it every month I use it more some months than others and not at all some times but I pay for it so that its there when I want it.
Convince is something we have always paid for.
It is becoming more and more visible now as more of population pays for it but it always has been and always will be something you buy to save time or make your life a bit more convenient for you. 
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I am against F2P after thinking over and over... .
 
A guild mate argued that there are a number of players who are held back from playing because of the subscription itself. Now the trick question would be, if the game goes f2p and many of us (who dislike f2p) will vanish, will the new wave of players compensate the loss and bring in more money then we spend right now.
 
I think no. Except, item shop with lots of customizations, services and rune-related items. Still, for Wildstar it would be a defeat.	
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Fight? 
 
Fight what? 
 
Fight HOW?  
 
NCSoft owns Carbine. Owns all of it, can fire any of the dev team at will, can shut the game down or raise subs to $100 a month or do whatever they like.  What kind of "fight" are you proposing Carbine should put up?  Carbine puts some kind of software kill switch on the game code and threatens to sabotage it all unless they are allowed to keep Wildstar P2P?  They'd end up in jail before you could say "Don't drop the soap." 
 
Carbine's ability to argue effectively with their bosses at NCSoft, if it ever existed, would have been contingent on them producing a thriving game.  At that point, Carbine would have had leverage -- "We've created something good for you, something making money, and we need you to trust us to keep doing it and not meddle, please."  Then NCSoft would have a motivation to not mess around in order not kill the golden goose and risk losing a profit-making team, although they could still have arbitrarily killed the game if the notion took them, because they had that power. But they wouldn't, if the game was performing. (Probably.) 
 
Now, though?  With the game struggling? Any credibility the Carbine team had with NCSoft is quite likely gone, and with it any leverage to get their desires heard by their bosses.  Right now Carbine has no base of solid past performance to fight from, no reason to be able to say to NCSoft, "Trust us, we know what we're doing," and expect to be believed.  Right now, anyone at Carbine with a lick of sense is keeping their head so far down it's between their ankles, at least if they want to stay employed and keep working on the game and trying to improve it. 
 
I mean, you guys have actually held jobs, right? You know how that works?  You know that if you don't want to do what the boss says, you can quit, but you can't just refuse and expect to keep your job, right? (Assuming your boss doesn't ask you to break the law, of course. And even then he can still fire you if you refuse, and you have to somehow prove it was out of retribution for you refusing to do something illegal -- a real mess.)  If you have a strong union backing you, you might be able to  fight a little bit within the union rules, but the days of strong unions in the U.S. are long gone, and I'm sure Carbine isn't a union shop anyway. 
 
As for being "supportive" if they fight...What do you mean by that? Are you going to make all their mortgage payments when they all get fired for insubordination, which means they'll get no unemployment checks?  What kind of support are you offering -- to not cancel your sub?  I really don't know how far that $15 a month is going to go when they're all fired, particularly since they money will go to NCSoft's coffers, not the dev's pockets.  
 
I get that you don't like the idea of F2P, but please, be a little realistic here. The devs are real people, with lives, careers, and in many cases families. Is what you're suggesting at all reasonable? 
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			no	
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I am against F2P after thinking over and over... .
 
A guild mate argued that there are a number of players who are held back from playing because of the subscription itself. Now the trick question would be, if the game goes f2p and many of us (who dislike f2p) will vanish, will the new wave of players compensate the loss and bring in more money then we spend right now.
 
I think no. Except, item shop with lots of customizations, services and rune-related items. Still, for Wildstar it would be a defeat.
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{| class="blockquote"
Can someone that is pro F2P please explain why they are ok with a service fees for Netflix amazon Hulu and many other service both online and off but when it is a game/service they go ape over it ?
How is a subscription to a game any different than say cable TV or any other luxury service that you pay monthly for? cell phone service ? internet service on your phone?  I really want to understand . 
To me I pay monthly to have a persistent world and new content from time to time provided at no additional charge. it is the same as Netflix I pay for it every month I use it more some months than others and not at all some times but I pay for it so that its there when I want it.
Convince is something we have always paid for.
It is becoming more and more visible now as more of population pays for it but it always has been and always will be something you buy to save time or make your life a bit more convenient for you. 
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{| class="blockquote"
You'd be surprised.
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{| class="blockquote"
I am against F2P after thinking over and over... .
 
A guild mate argued that there are a number of players who are held back from playing because of the subscription itself. Now the trick question would be, if the game goes f2p and many of us (who dislike f2p) will vanish, will the new wave of players compensate the loss and bring in more money then we spend right now.
 
I think no. Except, item shop with lots of customizations, services and rune-related items. Still, for Wildstar it would be a defeat.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Where did I said anything about NCsoft & Carbine fighting between them?
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Wildstar won't go F2P, it'll go Freemium, like SWtOR, Rift, Tera etc...
Let's look at what definitely happens
 
You buy the game
You pay a monthly sub in order to access the game
You get lots of new content(not the best example currently, but it'll get better)
Solid servers with great connectivity
Constant fixes to bugged/broken content
No cash events
FAR less goldsellers
Everyone is at the same level as far as gaining levels and whatnot
 
OR
 
Game goes Freemium(at best)
Game becomes a free download(or "hopefully" B2P like Guildwars)
All that money you spent becomes practically worthless, at best you get crappy benefits like Tera.
Server connectivity goes down the drain
Bug fixes start to slow down(at some point they become a rare event)
Updates become sparse as cash shop items become higher priority than new content
Gold sellers EVERYWHERE(if you bring up that earlier bull, you have NO idea what it's TRULY like)
Cash events as far as the eye can see
The current rate of leveling/elder gem gain/all the things gets cut and paying users get their stuff "boosted"(to the regular rate)
 
Also, NCSoft.	
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			While I don't want WS to go F2P I do think it will become a hybrid model as you just stated.  I just wish they would "get it over with". <_<	
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with what Im reading here, and to what I think about this game. FOR ME, is it fun? yes. But I honestly think for Carbine to go F2P would honestly bury this game. Carbine just needs to keep at the monthly subs as they are. If it aint broke, don't fix it. It just seems to me that going F2P would be more of a desperation move that would fail in the long run and is something that would do MORE HARM than good for this game. Buying items just to progress further into this game? I wouldnt do it. I have better things I could be spending my money on than buying items at a shop, or whatever I have to buy just to progress in this game. I'd probably think like Vic and just leave. F2P is just not feasable for me.
 
All in all, you guys need to keep your monthly subs, your doing just fine with that.	
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Here take my NO!
 
I wouldn't feel safe without the monthly subscription fees, because it works like security protocols. There are too many evil things outside (content-locks, players, p2w etc.) that would get free passage inside the game. You go free to play and the Strain consumes all. As a part of the MMORPG nation I would be forced to follow our nomadic culture and migrate somewhere else. I don't like the idea, but we gotta do what we gotta do.	
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There is no other "fight" that makes any sense in this context.  Carbine devs are on the record saying they'd rather see the game die than go F2P, but they don't get to make that call -- NCSoft will make that call.  Ergo, the only "fight" Carbine could possibly be having over "To F2P or not to F2P?" is with NCSoft.  
 
Who, or what, else would they be fighting, if not their publisher with a track record of cancelling games that don't make enough profit?  Who else would realistically be able to force Carbine to make the transition?  I read your post as you pleading with Carbine to keep pressing the case with NCSoft that F2P is a bad idea for Wildstar. Now you say that's not what you meant, but what did you actually mean? When you say Carbine should fight to keep the game P2P, what they heck were you talking about?  Fight who? Fight what? Fight how? Fight the modern MMO player market? Fight the natural desire to have their game played, and hopefully enjoyed, by a lot more people than it is right now?  Fight the very forces of capitalism themselves?  
 
I read your post as "Carbine, fight off NCSoft's pressure to go F2P!" because NCSoft is the only place any such pressure could possibly come from, and as I said, it won't be an issue of "pressure" when the time comes, it'll be an order that Carbine will have to obey: "Transition the game. Put a plan on my desk in a week. Get going." 
 
Any "fight" against NCSoft is hopeless from the outset, but what other fight would you have Carbine fight? And again, what kind of support are you offering?  
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After reading that MMORPG.com interview where Donatelli or Moore used the words "we are listening" on this very subject, I was scared.I planned on making a topic like this as well, so we can show that we are many who are against Free-to-play.
 
If Wildstar takes on the Free-to-play model I will quit, no matter how awesome I think this game is.	
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However I think this game could really benefit from a permanent LIMITED free trial. You'd have no access to chat, trading, mail, etc. (unless the other person had you on their friends list or something)
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I do love a good morning 'no'.
 
NO.
 
Satisfying.	
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Personally I feel if the game goes free to play it might actually do better. Look at every other game that has gone F2P, thing tend to go better. I personally don't see that being the death of the game.  Simply means it might simply be the correct way for MMOs to go. Still keep the sub model but give the subs XP boosts and things that do not effect the eco, damage, gear, or anything that is base in the game.
 
Basically don't go the SWTOR road and go the RIFT road.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Sooo much content. x4 Adventures that are mainly done for attunement, and the few people that enjoy running them 40 times in a row for X piece of gear. Dungeons are actually fun, but most people farm STL or SC, SSM and KV are almost never done except for attunement.
 
Raids, GA, most raiders are in here. DS, almost nobody doing it.
 
So we have ~2 dungeons and 1 raid that really see most of the activity.
 
And then there's PvP, masochists and arena teams, not many people compared to PvE.
 
So no, there's not much keeping people here, most of my raid group only logs in x3 times a week for 3 hours, and that's it.
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Definitely not F2P, but how do you guys feel about it going B2P, like GW2?
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			No to F2P. Unless it would mean shutting down the game. Definitely no shutting down the game.	
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Too hardcore for the current casual consumer market.
 
If this game came out 14 years ago, it might have been a big sell.
 
You know, before World of Warcraft showed up and showed everyone you don't have to devote all your time to an MMO at the sacrifice of your personal life.
 
O_O
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{| class="blockquote"
Personally I feel if the game goes free to play it might actually do better. Look at every other game that has gone F2P, thing tend to go better. I personally don't see that being the death of the game.  Simply means it might simply be the correct way for MMOs to go. Still keep the sub model but give the subs XP boosts and things that do not effect the eco, damage, gear, or anything that is base in the game.
 
Basically don't go the SWTOR road and go the RIFT road.
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			If F2P happens, I'll wash my HDD of this game!	
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I have never seen any MMO that became a more enjoyable experience after changing their business model to F2P.
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Donatelli's wording in the latest mmorpg.com interview has me really worried. It's the exact same wording companies use when they're already planning on going F2P but they just don't want to admit it yet.
 
I will hope I'm just being paranoid, because that is not something I want for this game. :\
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I do not enjoy previous monetization methods for F2P/hyrbid setups from NCSoft. There is nothing inherently wrong with it of course. Just hasn't appealed to me in previous titles. City of Heroes being a prime example. It was highly unappealing to me. Guild Wars 2 missed the mark for me as well.
 
Excellent games and nothing wrong with the setup. Merely that it did not appeal to me specifically. In all likelyhood I will not be spending money on this title if it follows suite with previous NCSoft offerings. Until then I am probably going to remain subscribed.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I have never seen any MMO that became a more enjoyable experience after changing their business model to F2P.
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You always have to stay subbed to enjoy any mmo. Free to play is a nice way for players to try the game first then spend money if they enjoy it. Rift and LOTRO I think are the best examples. Now yes a lot of MMO that's go F2P go nuts on the micro store and that's bad. SWTOR has a very bad rep due to that, not all mmos have a bad store though. Depends on who is running the game, if WS did go F2P I think it would be ok because carbine would do it right.
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Free-to-play destroys game communities.
 
In addition, when I purchase a game, I like knowing that I can obtain everything in the game if I just put in the effort (as in, without spending additional money).
 
$15 is absolutely nothing and C.R.E.D.D. is cheap anyway.
 
No to free-to-play. No to buy-to-play.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Not really, F2P is a great way for any game to take developer hours and apply them to something you have to buy beyond the subscription.
 
A free trial is a way for players to try the game first then spend money.  Nobody's saying there shouldn't be WoW style trial accounts where you can get up to 15, try a shiphand, have limited chat functions, essentially see if you like the game without bothering people.  But people are saying that before NCSoft even begins thinking about F2P, maybe they should figure out how to not make their free trial keys more functional.  Right now, handing out your key is putting your neck on the line for a friend to try for seven days, then there's no reward after if you get them in.  And they have to jump a 60 dollar up front hurdle much more substantial than a 15 dollar subscription.
 
There's a lot they could do that would work, and things they plan to do most likely, before resigning this game to the F2P dustbin and just tacking a new notice on NCSoft's resume that they can't hack it with the big boys in the subscription world.  They won't do it until after Drop 3-4 because there are so many problems flooding the forums, and they'd like to do it during a flood of good publicity.  It's certainly not going to be a time when we're complaining about bugs, lack of content, empty servers, and fighting to keep the game from going to F2P Hell not four months from launch.
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually really well put. 100% to this.
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I am going to have to read more into this (first time I have heard of it was this thread), but I am not sure I understand the anger? F2P has worked out really well for Rift, and I think that Rift does F2P really, really well. You can enjoy the entire game without paying a penny, or you can pay a little bit more and get a few bonuses like AH use, cool looking mounts, and various boosts. I played Rift for almost a year before I started spending money on it, and I was happy to do so as I really liked the game. 
 
I think F2P will help bring people to the game. Last night I qued for a dungeon as a healer, and an hour later still hadn't been pulled into one. I have been playing for three months and hardly ever see another soul in the game. Occasionally I will put out a "hello" in zone chat to try to get some people to talk and make the game a little less like a solitary adventure. Sometimes I get some replies, more often than not nothing. Its rather lonely. 
 
They need to do something. I got the game off of eBay for around $30, and that is the only reason that I was willing to try it. Right now there is no way for interested players to even see if they may be interested without paying the $60 upfront cost. Then what if they don't like it? If they are a student on a budget like me they are probably going to be pretty upset about spending the money. That happened to me with SWOTR. I jumped on the bandwagon when the game came out, couldn't even get it to run on my computer, and now the game props up a chair that is a bit crooked. Was pretty pissed off about that one. 	
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			This thread needs a video of no no cat.  He so aptly summarizes my feelings on so many things.	
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I'm actually kind of surprised that this thread is still going.  I don't recall seeing anything from Carbine that would confirm an intent to transition to F2P.
 
Although, since the thread is still going, I guess this would be the place to muse over what that would actually entail and the attitude toward it.  I see a lot of implications that F2P somehow constitutes "failure" and I'm having a hard time agreeing with that notion.
 
I've played, hrm... close to 10 different MMOs over the past 13 years or so, starting with Ultima Online and then bouncing from one to the next all the way up until I most recently started playing Wildstar.  I can say with confidence that each and every one of those games was great in its own right, and there are certainly legitimate reasons for why people would be fans of each and every one of them, including Wildstar.  Over the past few years in particular, the MMO market has expanded exponentially in terms of competent competition as well as its offerings to consumers.  The majority of people who play MMOs have also seen a major shift in their priorities as they've grown older (at least I have, judging by some of the comments I've seen, others have too).
 
I can also say with absolute certainty that Wildstar's lack of perceived popularity is by no means the fault of the game, Wildstar, itself.  It is a great game, has a robust set of features (especially for a brand new MMO), full of nuances and attention to detail that shows a high level of dedication from the people who created it, and is (by industry standards, anyway) technically sound for something that essentially still fresh out of the box (when compared to the longevity of MMOs in general).
 
Instead, I see Wildstar's lack of perceived popularity as being more of a by-product of this more nebulous concept that we describe as "the commercial market" and the market forces associated with an ever growing/evolving/increasingly competitive field.
 
So, with all of the above being said, maybe it is time to re-define the parameters of what actually constitutes "failure" for an MMO in today's market, as opposed to the MMO market of 10 years ago and the time in between:
 
10 years ago, if WoW had gone F2P 6 months after release, it would have done so in a market where the only other (major) alternatives would have been Ultima Online and Everquest.  That's not a large amount of competition and that would have spoke volumes about WoW's technical/entertainment value to the consumer.  There were more than enough MMO players go around in that market, and ideally, would have been enough to sustain all three of those games (despite WoW drawing in fans like a Hungry-Hungry Hippo coated in fly-paper powered by an industrial-strength vacuum...).
 
Fast forward to the market of 2014.  There are more MMOs on the market than most people are inclined to count (I'm not counting, there's a lot).  How many?  50?  60?  100?  Each of which requiring large numbers of players to sustain a healthy in-game population/revenue and all offering some kind of "hook" to bring people in and inspire some level of loyalty.
 
Let's also take into account that the current Sub-based models are few and far between, and there is are few exceptions to this one common trait (Eve comes to mind here):  They are all well established and already popular IPs (WoW, FF14, ESO).  It's not insidious, but people tend to gravitate towards products that they are already familiar with - and the names associated with those products do carry a lot of weight when drawing the attention of the consumer.
 
Wildstar, a great product, does not have the power associated with already established IPs, and is thus, the victim of being over-looked.
 
Moving on to the concept of F2P vs. B2P vs. P2P:  Would it be logical to associate a transition to a different business model with "failure" in today's market?  I'm more of the school of thought that it is a strategic shift, simply a different strategy, when it comes to competing on today's market - NOT a statement of the game's technical/entertainment value.
 
I'm inclined to say that the answer is "no" when analyzing the nature of the market and the power of established IPs versus the tendency for new IPs to be overlooked by the larger consumer base.  F2P and B2P, in terms of marketing tactics, are very effective at grabbing attention from the larger audience and can be a counter balance to "the name" associated with another product(s) (especially in an already saturated market).
 
TL;DR:  I don't think the business model makes a statement about the efficacy of a MMOs entertainment value in today's market, but is simply a marketing strategy in a highly competitive market.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I am going to have to read more into this (first time I have heard of it was this thread), but I am not sure I understand the anger? F2P has worked out really well for Rift, and I think that Rift does F2P really, really well. You can enjoy the entire game without paying a penny, or you can pay a little bit more and get a few bonuses like AH use, cool looking mounts, and various boosts. I played Rift for almost a year before I started spending money on it, and I was happy to do so as I really liked the game. 
 
I think F2P will help bring people to the game. Last night I qued for a dungeon as a healer, and an hour later still hadn't been pulled into one. I have been playing for three months and hardly ever see another soul in the game. Occasionally I will put out a "hello" in zone chat to try to get some people to talk and make the game a little less like a solitary adventure. Sometimes I get some replies, more often than not nothing. Its rather lonely. 
 
They need to do something. I got the game off of eBay for around $30, and that is the only reason that I was willing to try it. Right now there is no way for interested players to even see if they may be interested without paying the $60 upfront cost. Then what if they don't like it? If they are a student on a budget like me they are probably going to be pretty upset about spending the money. That happened to me with SWOTR. I jumped on the bandwagon when the game came out, couldn't even get it to run on my computer, and now the game props up a chair that is a bit crooked. Was pretty pissed off about that one. 
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			I don't understand why people are so against F2P.  Usually when MMOs go F2P nothing changes for subscribers (if anything, things usually improve with additional perks in order to encourage people to sub).  F2P can be done really, really well and enhance your game as a subscriber rather than impact it negatively.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Why are you playing on a server everyone transferred off of weeks ago?
 
Carbine has already said they're getting free trials set up but they're not willing to open them up yet until they drop the next Drop to fix many of the issues that pushed players away in the first place.
 
As for F2P, AH use is not something that should be hidden behind a pay wall.  Boosts are not something I ever want to see because they are pay to win.
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Right now if you pay 15$ a month to play this game, you are obviously wasting your money.
 
No way i will pay for a broken pvp system and items on ghosts servers where you have to wait hours to get a queu for a BG or a Dungeon.
 
F2P would save the game, so prepare for it its comming.
 
If no F2P then RIP Wildstar.	
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Been out of town for a few weeks, and this is what I come back to?
 
While I appreciate the long posts, this one is simple. Currently I'm auto renew every 3 months and I don't use Credd for my sub, but if F2P comes about I'll go back to Wow or find another game - sadly this will be the last NcSoft product i try.	
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This game has a lot of wounds... wounds that an be healed. F2P would be a deathblow, though. Keep your heads down and white-knuckle your way through at least your first year before even trying to consider this. Don't give in to the pressure of the doomsayers and gimme crowd, they just annihilate games and spit them out as soon as the next one comes along. I plan on sticking with WildStar for as long as the sub model exists. F2P kills games.
 
EDIT: Also, I agree with Grommit. NCSoft has proven again and again that they are in the business of making money, not games. Forcing Carbine to take WS F2P would put NCSoft on my blacklist, right next to EA.	
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I dont understand why people would stop playing the game they like because it goes F2P.
 
You wont have to pay 15$ a month to play but if u want to waste ur money on a game that will die in 1 year, all up to you...
 
F2P is the only thing that could save Wildstar. There has been too much bad talks about it, nobody wants to try it anymore.	
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I dont understand why people would stop playing the game they like because it goes F2P.
 
You wont have to pay 15$ a month to play but if u want to waste ur money on a game that will die in 1 year, all up to you...
 
F2P is the only thing that could save Wildstar. There has been too much bad talks about it, nobody wants to try it anymore.
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I dont understand why people would stop playing the game they like because it goes F2P.
 
You wont have to pay 15$ a month to play but if u want to waste ur money on a game that will die in 1 year, all up to you...
 
F2P is the only thing that could save Wildstar. There has been too much bad talks about it, nobody wants to try it anymore.
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Last time I checked Pergo was still the most populated server? *confusion*
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I would prefer that the game stays with its current model, however I would keep playing either way.
 
Saying that people don't want to try this game because how badly it is talked about, is really an exaggeration. Most people don't visit the forums or comments. They are going to trust what WE, their friends say to them. 
 
I think it would be great if this game would implement a Refer/Recruit a Friend Program. It could help give us an incentive to get people we know into the game. They could allow for an experience bonus when the group quests together, and with the mentoring program you can either work on a new alt or get elder gems for your main. Add some cosmetic rewards and we would be in busy.
 
I was overhearing my boyfriend chatting with his friends about Shadows of Modor and how it was a great game that they wanted to play. However they refused to get it until it is on sale. Let's face it, those Steam sales have spoiled most of us to hold out for a better price. There is just something about 50% that just attracts us.
 
With the holiday season just around the corner, I think it would be great to offer the game at a discounted price. They could approach it two different ways.
 
The normal % off the box price. Let's say 30 dollars, that's 50% off!!
Or you could say the box price is now 15 dollars BUT the first month is not included at this price. Still it would say to the consumer that the game is a 75% off!! Talk about Black Friday Special! with the 15 dollars from the first month subscription it would still be 30 dollars but it would just appear to be cheaper.
 
Please don't go free to play...	
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I'm just going to chime in for a brief moment...
 
Personally I'm against F2P so I will say no...
 
However to answer a few questions:
Where are people getting the impression of Wildstar possibly going F2P?
The internet being the internet, every site and such these days is plagued with people going "f2p in X time" when it comes to MMO genre lately, which is unfortunate and pushes the idea people desire for it or just want to see a game fail as it opposes their game of choice.	In a recent interview Carbine said the game was not setup for a F2P model. HOWEVER the part that worries various posters is the "We’re not currently set up for F2P but we’re definitely paying attention to what the players are asking for." which has set some people off.
Why are people against F2P?
Some players have reasons that differ from the given, but these tend to be the most common...
Money gating of content	Introduction of items and or content that can only be acquired via cash shop that goes beyond cosmetic	Change in production mentality of the developer in regard to updating for the shop(s) or available in-game content	"Toxic" community	Higher costs for the player in the long-term 
Why are people for F2P(and B2P to some degree)?
Some players have reasons that differ from the given, but these tend to be the most common...
Higher population	Freedom to come and go as you please	Conveniences often provided by shops such as boosters	No obligation to pay for anything
Not necessarily facts, just my own observations from my own experience and that of others, along with presented viewpoints on the matter. Personally speaking IF it were to happen I'd at least see how it Carbine would do it for a month or two and IF it were a direction I was not happy with I'd simply just leave. I'm not against F2P on paper, but the execution of F2P models and the conversion to such models never panned out to work for me. Right now I'm subbed for a year(yes a year) and I've been having fun in Wildstar so I'll continue to support it when/if I can. 
 
 
If anything would help, I feel like these might be great:
Wildstar on steam(and be part of steam sales)
Sales for box purchase
Recruit a friend program
Advertise the snot out of the game once they get things up n running
Lift the "you're responsible for whoever you give your friend codes to" clause that seems to frighten some players that are holding on to their codes.
Introduce a form of trials (possibly when the elvel 10 dungeon is released) that goes up to level 15 so that new and trial players can experience pvp, dungeons, adventures, and housing, etc...	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
I'm just going to chime in for a brief moment...
 
Personally I'm against F2P so I will say no...
 
However to answer a few questions:
Where are people getting the impression of Wildstar possibly going F2P?
The internet being the internet, every site and such these days is plagued with people going "f2p in X time" when it comes to MMO genre lately, which is unfortunate and pushes the idea people desire for it or just want to see a game fail as it opposes their game of choice.	In a recent interview Carbine said the game was not setup for a F2P model. HOWEVER the part that worries various posters is the "We’re not currently set up for F2P but we’re definitely paying attention to what the players are asking for." which has set some people off.
Why are people against F2P?
Some players have reasons that differ from the given, but these tend to be the most common...
Money gating of content	Introduction of items and or content that can only be acquired via cash shop that goes beyond cosmetic	Change in production mentality of the developer in regard to updating for the shop(s) or available in-game content	"Toxic" community	Higher costs for the player in the long-term 
Why are people for F2P(and B2P to some degree)?
Some players have reasons that differ from the given, but these tend to be the most common...
Higher population	Freedom to come and go as you please	Conveniences often provided by shops such as boosters	No obligation to pay for anything
Not necessarily facts, just my own observations from my own experience and that of others, along with presented viewpoints on the matter. Personally speaking IF it were to happen I'd at least see how it Carbine would do it for a month or two and IF it were a direction I was not happy with I'd simply just leave. I'm not against F2P on paper, but the execution of F2P models and the conversion to such models never panned out to work for me. Right now I'm subbed for a year(yes a year) and I've been having fun in Wildstar so I'll continue to support it when/if I can. 
 
 
If anything would help, I feel like these might be great:
Wildstar on steam(and be part of steam sales)
Sales for box purchase
Recruit a friend program
Advertise the snot out of the game once they get things up n running
Lift the "you're responsible for whoever you give your friend codes to" clause that seems to frighten some players that are holding on to their codes.
 
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When it's all boiled down to it's most basic answer as to why I don't like F2P it's this:
 
1. If you aren't careful you WILL spend a lot more money buying items from a cash shop to sell on the AH or to costume your toon or buy XP boosts (these are basic examples of a cash shop not of the P2W sort).
 
2. F2P brings in the worst elements of people. Not all F2P people are jerks, just the most vocal majority are jerks.
 
Why you ask?
 
Because from 3 pm to midnight of any time zone, school kids over run the game and are online spewing dirty words, mashing space bar while mounted at the AH and begging for 'monies plox'  because they don't have any real interest in playing the game or getting to raid they just want STUFF like a new hat or mount. Mommy and Daddy won't buy them any MMO subscriptions so they infest the F2P market. Not every kid is a tool but when unsupervised they can be total and complete jerks, ask any parent.
 
These has been my experiences in the P2P to F2P market. 
 
Would I stick around after a F2P conversion? Maybe until then end of the month.....maybe into the next month but that would be about it. I would not stick around long.
 
So no thanks Carbine! 
 
NO! on F2P!	
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I'd rather see it stay as it is, because most F2P MMO's that offer a subscription I pay it anyway because most times it's worth it to avoid all the restrictions. So for that reason the current system is better because I get everything the game has to offer without anything extra like cash shop stuff.
 
But if it's a question between F2P or shutting down the game, it seems a no brainer that F2P is superior to nothing.
 
That all said, anyone who thinks F2P isn't an option is kidding themselves, as much as they may not want to do it, they really don't have the final say, NCSoft and the subscribers are the ones who will make that call. I say subscribers because if there aren't enough of them, then that forces NCSofts hand.	
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When it's all boiled down to it's most basic answer as to why I don't like F2P it's this:
 
1. If you aren't careful you WILL spend a lot more money buying items from a cash shop to sell on the AH or to costume your toon or buy XP boosts (these are basic examples of a cash shop not of the P2W sort).
 
2. F2P brings in the worst elements of people. Not all F2P people are jerks, just the most vocal majority are jerks.
 
Why you ask?
 
Because from 3 pm to midnight of any time zone, school kids over run the game and are online spewing dirty words, mashing space bar while mounted at the AH and begging for 'monies plox'  because they don't have any real interest in playing the game or getting to raid they just want STUFF like a new hat or mount. Mommy and Daddy won't buy them any MMO subscriptions so they infest the F2P market. Not every kid is a tool but when unsupervised they can be total and complete jerks, ask any parent.
 
These has been my experiences in the P2P to F2P market. 
 
Would I stick around after a F2P conversion? Maybe until then end of the month.....maybe into the next month but that would be about it. I would not stick around long.
 
So no thanks Carbine! 
 
NO! on F2P!
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			 I said this in a thread earlier I am not for F2P, I have played Rift, SWTOR, WAR, and have left almost immediately once they went f2p. They only f2p Game i tolerate on rare occasion is Neverwinter which is even few and far times between.	
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I dunno about Pergo since I don't play on a PVP server, but Stormtalon is packed.  Can't throw a dead rat without hitting somebody. 
 
I feel like the PVP community in the game is suffering far more decline than everyone else because of PVP issues (the greatest of which being not being able to do warplots).
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I've played plenty of F2P MMOs, and it hasn't been anything like that. In fact some of them had better communities than WS does right now, by a lot.
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			The biggest reason people are "for" F2P is that you don't have to make any kind of commitment to the game, which ultimately fits in with their nomadic/locust/the fence is greener gamer lifestyle.	
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I just rolled an engineer on Stormtalon since the game was prompting new players to go there, thought what the heck. While I did see a few people on the ship starting area, after that it has been a ghost town. :( Maybe it will pick up though.
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Like I said in my post, it is true in my experience of F2P. Nothing but 13 year old foul mouths as far as the eye can see.  I am glad you have had better luck or maybe you just like that type of scenario. We all have opinions.
 
F2P = Trolls. (oh and nice picture.........)
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			 This game needs to stay sub. I will probably go back to WoW if it goes F2P	
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There are already so many options in this game that allows you to 100% ignore anyone/any channel, given your worst case scenario. Instead of being open to a viable solution, you go "waaaaaa I'm an adult, I can't handle people talking in /z at peak hours" and just blanket dismiss F2P.
 
 
Forgive me if I'm not impressed with your maturity.
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It's why I said "When it's all boiled down to it's most basic answer as to why I don't like F2P" It's just an opinion.
 
But thanks for trolling me and proving my point :D
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I don't understand why people are so against F2P. Usually when MMOs go F2P nothing changes for subscribers (if anything, things usually improve with additional perks in order to encourage people to sub). F2P can be done really, really well and enhance your game as a subscriber rather than impact it negatively.
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I'm not trolling you, I'm addressing something I see all the time as a reason to not go F2P in this thread. But if you're determined to categorize anyone disagreeing with you into trolls.... sure why not. 
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This game has a lot of wounds... wounds that an be healed. F2P would be a deathblow, though. Keep your heads down and white-knuckle your way through at least your first year before even trying to consider this. Don't give in to the pressure of the doomsayers and gimme crowd, they just annihilate games and spit them out as soon as the next one comes along. I plan on sticking with WildStar for as long as the sub model exists. F2P kills games.
 
EDIT: Also, I agree with Grommit. NCSoft has proven again and again that they are in the business of making money, not games. Forcing Carbine to take WS F2P would put NCSoft on my blacklist, right next to EA.
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The troll part was you felt the need to put in a picture of a old dude to insinuate that I must be old if I don't like F2P based on my experiences  and that I don't know how to work a chat box. :D
 
I am neither old nor a dude.
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No to F2P, and from what I can tell most of the current subscribers feel the same way.  The community that actually continues supporting/playing/paying monthly for this game do not want a F2P, B2P, or P2W model.  We continue to pay our subs and play the game, and we have not bailed on your product.  The community that is asking for F2P (mostly) are people that do not play your game.  Continue supporting the customers that a currently supporting you and have an investment in your product.
 
A lot of people just jump from one F2P to another, they run out of content and they go play something else until new content arrives.  I bet the majority of people that clamor for F2P are not even currently playing the game.  A lot of players who enjoy subscription based models move slower through the content and take time to enjoy the game.  Also with the new drop cycle being every 3 months I do not think that lends itself as well to a F2P model.
 
I am just saying that you have a lot of customers paying for a sub-based game, and a lot who have stopped subbing but would re-sub if certain things get fixed.  Do not put potential customers ahead of the loyal customers who still pay, play, and post, all trying to make the game better by working with the player base and the games developers.	
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Heya,
 
I'm not much of a forum poster, but think this an important issue.
 
For what it's worth, I think you have a great game here. Though gameplay wise there is overlap with other mmo's, the wildstar setting is unique and just lovely (no orcs, elves, medieval, starwars etc)
I sincerely hope you will not go f2p, for the same reasons many people have stated in this thread.
 
Thank you for making this game.
 
Cheers,	
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I'm definitely one of those folks sick of F2P models. Even if I love the game, F2P monetization screws them all up. 
 
Please no F2P for Wildstar.	
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It's already f2p for me, Go go CREDD system.
 
But on a serious note, keep it Sub or CREDD. No F2P w/ cash shop	
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			No to F2P.	
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I dont understand why people would stop playing the game they like because it goes F2P.
 
You wont have to pay 15$ a month to play but if u want to waste ur money on a game that will die in 1 year, all up to you...
 
F2P is the only thing that could save Wildstar. There has been too much bad talks about it, nobody wants to try it anymore.
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While I prefer a sub over F2P, I'm not against it either.  I've been in a few games where the model worked out fairly well without feeling like I was getting the dirty end of the stick. What will make me leave a game has less to do with its payment model and more to do with whether or not my play time is enjoyable within whatever payment model exists, and a good bit of that depends on what my leveling experience is like (a all inclusive metric that is part actual gameplay/performance/interaction and admittedly, purely subjective), and how people respond on forums.  If a game's community is too elitist or bullying in tone, I leave because I simply don't have the time or patience for it.  
 
That said; I feel that Maytree actually has more the right of it regarding this thread in general.  Our coming here and voting no or yes realistically has zero impact, regardless if the Dev's are listening.  I don't mean to be insulting as I say this but a handful of posters threatening to quit if "do this or else" really don't understand how little their opinion really matters to CEOs, and if a Corp has recovered its initial investment and made even a small profit, cutting off losses is also something CEO's have zero hesitation in doing, regardless of how many people post their love on a board urging the good fight.  As in your own life, the person holding the purse strings has all the power.
 
 I also find it ironic that many of those who are hostile to F2P due to the kind of player base it draws, haven't seen the vitriol I have in leveling zones when someone mentions they're from WoW and are asking how to do something in WS, are told {then go back to WoW | this isn't WoW | read the manual noob} among other, less friendly replies (usually its deafening silence, so those sorts of remarks stand out even more as a result).  I myself haven't got a character past 15th level (i try out all classes first) but this tends to paint a unpleasant picture going forward and that's what newbies see as representation.
 
I think a far more productive stance on the topic would be to state what examples of the F2P model you've seen that you dislike, and how some posters in this thread have done by stating some examples of where it would have a acceptable form, as well as suggestions or thoughts on how the game as a whole could be improve the sales funnel in general.
 
Some examples:
a 21 day trial period that lets you top out at level 20, you can have free access to chat, along with reducing the initial price barrier.  Its all digital distribution these days, there isn't nearly the production costs of shipping disks inside of boxes costs involved, the $60 price could easily be reduced to $40.  
Account upgrades: Initial sale of the game is $40, but if you buy a upgrade you can get extra character slots, start off with greater inventory allotment, get "bonus money" every 5 levels, have a starting mount that is a little slower than one bought in game.  Number of features that can be added with a account upgrade package that doesn't stray into the 'Pay to Win' territory and its part of a sales funnel, converting someone who spent $40 into purchasing a $20 upgrade is significantly easier than getting someone to spend $60 upfront.
Making it part of the Steam network would also broaden its reach, in marketing products its all about getting eyeballs on the product, then setting up your funnel to lead them towards conversion, the lower the entry barrier the easier the process that leads to conversion.  
Right now the only funnels I see are fan pages going on how hardcore the game is, MMO forums with critics baiting fans, or "pro" review sites that bring the good with the bad and leave one wondering if this title is worth the bother.  This alongside a steep entry price and a subscription model really doesn't surprise me that the game hurts for subscribers, the game is asking for a lot of trust and faith upfront while the competition has lowered barriers with varying payment gateways that rely on progressive conversion.  There are indeed other ways besides F2P, but CEOs like it because it has a history of reducing investment costs while at the same time raising profit, if the Devs truly wish to avoid that model then their current sales model needs to find more effective ways to convert people from thinking about trying WS to taking the plunge.	
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And I will just reiterate again, some of the people suggesting FTP are not suggesting it because they don't want to pay a sub.
 
But because they want to have people to play with.
 
End of the day if you play an MMO without massive multiplayer... it is just online. Kind of like playing That game Curt Schilling made (I thought that was a fun game to be honest).	
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And I will just reiterate again, some of the people suggesting FTP are not suggesting it because they don't want to pay a sub.
 
But because they want to have people to play with.
 
End of the day if you play an MMO without massive multiplayer... it is just online. Kind of like playing That game Curt Schilling made (I thought that was a fun game to be honest).
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Why are we having this discussion in the first place ?
 
The game *IS* F2P *already* with CREDD. Except yeah it does take effort and a sense of "giving back" from the people that want to play for free.
I know I don't use CREDD either way myself, I just sub and have fun but I'm certainly fine that some people can play for free by giving plats, and that some can get plats by giving IRL money.
 
What we're having at the gates are the ***USUAL*** toxic crowd that wants everything for free and never give back, never get really invested.
The VERY SAME people trying to lobby on Reddit or on internet articles comments saying they'd play if the game was F2P, etc...
 
THE VERY SAME that pollute the chat channels in horrid ways, then anyway will leave the game after a short while, THE VERY SAME that *will* eventually talk trash on the game, insult the devs, the regular players, later on... Zone chat will be filled with trolololol haters and such.
 
I don't want those non-invested kiddies in WS.
 
They can't afford $0.50 a day to play, but they're most of the times the same that want to keep their cash for drinks or the latest trendy shoes (and I'm being generous)...
 
Sorry but NO : so you don't want to pay $60 for the box and $15 for the first month to get started and thus after 3 weeks have enough plats by moving your butt a little to get started with CREDD ? Then GTFO of my WS...
 
That's all what you need : the box price and 1 month sub and then with some effort you'll be F2P forever with CREDD.
 
SERIOUSLY  :angry: : they want not only the game for free but also not move their butt to participate ?
And on top of that : make OUR lives miserable in game, WE who preordered months before game shipped, some of us with Deluxe, and payed several months of subs ?
 
Wait  WHAT ???
 
I've already experienced that in SWTOR : please NEVER AGAIN !	
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F2P will do one thing to this game and that will be killing it. haven't you all learned from other games? Lets take GW2, I know people who sunk 100s of dollars into It and for what? The game never progressed and you completed new content within hours of release.
 
WildStar is hard and brings back the golden days of MMOs. Where you looked at the top tier Guilds and said dam, I wish I could have that gear. So if you were good, you got your sh*t together and practiced a crap ton. I remember playing lord of the rings online in 2007. Watching all the top end guilds in their shiny gear. Then I went on to lead the top Raid Guild on our server. I fully support making the initial receiving of the game free. IE download it and get like 2 weeks to try it out. After that you must sub. That is a fantastic idea. But to make the game completely F2P will only bring out I win cause I have a bigger wallet. Yes, WildStar is flawed, yes it needs some serious help. But can't we all have some faith? Take what the devs are saying it give it a shot. I have went back to several games for maximum of a day and was bored within minutes. Simply put, WS is by far the best MMO I have played.
 
Devs, please read this post and listen. Your game is amazing and your true supporters will stick with you as long as you keep to your end. There is no reason to give in to whiny people cause they can't figure out how to be better. Not everyone is good at raiding or playing/ doing certain things. No reason to mess up a great game by giving in to those people. Pay to win is not the way.
 
Not edited.	
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F2P will do one thing to this game and that will be killing it. 
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			Is there really a difference?	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
One acronym, TSW.
 
Wildstar won't die, but it will become a withered shell of it's former self.
 
Which is worse?
 
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{| class="blockquote"
Or will it thrive and flourish as did Star Trek Online when it switched to F2P? 
 
There are no easy answers, but I see F2P as an inevitability in the face of an increasingly hostile market. IMO its not matter of if, but rather when. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Or will it thrive and flourish as did Star Trek Online when it switched to F2P? 
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