Report 1534

Report #1534
Skillset: Tracking Skill: Pit/Traps
 Org: Institute Status: Completed Oct 2016
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: Pits provide a highly effective means of achieving several things:
Keeping a target in the room. Slowing a target or group from advancing or moving
around an area. Creating an immediate disadvantage for a target or group
initiating upon another group. Limiting the ability or highly increasing the
risk for 'hit and run' attacks such as gusting or stripping shields. Pits rival
the control of a meld, and in conjuction with a meld, make it very difficult to
assault an area. They are a key component of the "fortress meta" so complained
about.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Make all traps per-room instead of per-exit. Make
 pits fire on room entrance, not exit. -- This would
 halve how effective pits are for stopping someone
 moving around an area, and reduce the effectiveness
 of pits in keeping a target in the room.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2: Make pits act as a fully different elevation. You
 can't hit someone in a pit unless you're in the pit
 with them. Add a new syntax to ENTER PIT. Add new
 ability in Tracking PULL <target>. 3p, delayed
 action. If the target is climing or climbing rocks,
 they are pulled back down into the pit. -- This would
 turn pits into more of a displacement or maze-like
 ability, but people could enter a pit to kill someone
 who doesn't leave. The new PULL ability is because
 any attackers entering a pit would have to climb
 themselves to chase a target.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3: Add a chance for any attacker that attacks someone in
 a pit has a chance to slip and fall into the pit
 themselves. The Tracker who's pit it is would be
 immune to this. -- This would incentivize and add
 risk to attacking someone in a pit. If you're
 unlucky, you fall in, and the person you pit climbs
 out and escapes, or their team shows up while you're
 in the pit.
Player Comments:
---[Shedrin on 10/3 @ 06:07 writes]:
Some potentially radical solutions, but I think this needs to be addressed.
There have been previous reports on pits before, but I don't think they address
the fundamental problems as I see it, thus this report. Some other concerns were
brought up to me about how pits and aquamesne works. I haven't fought the
combination much in quite a while, but I agree on that. Another milder solution
suggested to me: Disallow passives from affecting people in pits.
---[Shango on 10/3 @ 06:15 writes]:
I disapprove of any nerf to this. Pits, or any trap really save Darts, fires
only once on entrance or exit, with a 5s delay before they can be fired again.
Only way around this is through the use of a Tracker paying attention and
immediately Concealing the trap, which takes enough of a balance loss to keep
that target from engaging in the group fights beyond maintaining the traps. To
note, ANY Tracker, enemy included, can conceal said pits or other traps once
fired, and claim it for themselves without needing to dismantle and lay a new
one. Removing the ability to strike a target trapped within a pit, aside from
legs or gut to prevent Warrior afflictions that would trap them in there
indefinately, also hurts the Tracker in question from keeping a target from just
running anytime they manage to get their wounds sufficiently high enough to
matter in the slightest. Attrition based combat comes with certain such
disadvantages for the one that has to rely on it.
---[Shango on 10/3 @ 06:19 writes]:
However, Solution 3 does present an interesting balance in terms of group combat
scenarios, as long as Trackers are themselves immune from the effects given
their status as the ones that can lay, claim/convert, and otherwise make use of
such traps. Causing enemies or allies to have a say....40% chance per attack,
active rather than passives to prevent Melders or Guardians getting wrecked
unfairly, to fall into the pit as well would keep them from being as heavily
relied on in combat. And if Trackers were immune to the effects, would prevent
the change hampering their use of such things when dealing with single combat to
prevent targets from just escaping as they pleased.
---[Shedrin on 10/3 @ 06:24 writes]:
That's a good point about Solution 3. I'm not opposed to the Tracker who made
the pit being able to bypass the chance to fail. This does mean they can still
web spam or other things to keep someone in a pit unless they spend the power on
CLIMB ROCKS. That's still much less than a whole group wailing on you.
---[Shedrin on 10/3 @ 06:29 writes]:
On the point of taking up the Trackers balances. I think that it's very much
worth doing that, as many people do, including myself. I think it easily reaches
the point where Tracking is more of a primary skill than your weapon spec, which
I think shouldn't be the case.
---[Xenthos on 10/3 @ 22:05 writes]:
I'm actually interested in discussing either solution 1 OR solution 3. I think
that solution 1 could be very helpful for streamlining pits, making them far
less of a (as Shedrin puts it) main skillset while still keeping them powerful
in effect (and instead of competing per-exit, you're just competing per-room).
Makes it easier and less system-driven to get into. It also opens it up to
other quality-of-life changes (we can examine other aspects of pits in future
reports), AND it drastically lessens the disparity between trackers who have the
coal artifact and trackers who do not. Solution 3 is a change in the other
direction that makes pits a bit more hazardous to use-- I'm not quite as fond of
it. It has some potential, but I personally prefer Sol1 of the selections as it
gives us the greatest room for making pits more fun for everyone involved.
---[Wobou on 10/4 @ 04:55 writes]:
I like all of these solutions for different reasons. Solution 1 seems very
clean. Solution 2 could be implemented such that it more effectively stopped
running than current pits while removing some of the gankfest element but may
present issues with having a new elevation available that wasn't before (for
example can a whole party pre-enter the pit and wait for someone else to trigger
it?). I agree with Shango that solution 3 should give the tracker that 'owns'
the pit immunity to the effect. I think making traps per room instead of per
exit could almost be taken as a separate quality of life concern and added to
either solution 2 or 3 as well. Overall I have the most support for solution 3
with Shango's modification and with the element of solution 1 where traps are
per room instead of per exit.
---[Shedrin on 10/5 @ 22:25 writes]:
Updates Solution 3 to have the Tracker be immune to it.
---[Lerad on 10/6 @ 01:00 writes]:
I don't see solution 3 as having much of an impact. A person who is pitted can
be attacked whether their attacker is in or out of the pit. Dropping into the
pit themselves won't stop attackers from hitting the target- this means there is
no impactful difference in the overpowering advantages that pits provide. If an
attacker that "falls" into the pit can no longer attack the pitted person, then
there's a meaning to the drawback - but that makes no sense either in terms of
flavour, or in terms of strategy. I support solution 1 instead. As Xenthos says,
the limit of a single pit in the room that does not prevent exit will open up
the ability to balance changes that can buff its effectiveness for niche
circumstances, something that currently is unthinkable due to the already
overpowering advantages of pits. A super-limited pit (one per room) could even
be changed to things like having the entire entourage drop into the pit on
entry, or being able to push people into an existing pit, or allowing trackers
to jump into a pit with a target and gaining bonuses while in there, or creating
instakills based off the pit etc etc. Pits are long due for a re-look at their
mechanics, and solution 1 is a good first step to give them a proper place in
combat without being a literal pain in the ass.
---[Xenthos on 10/6 @ 01:16 writes]:
^--- +
---[Shedrin on 10/6 @ 05:50 writes]:
That's a good point about how being pitted doesn't stop attacking other pitted
people. I'm not sure how the solution would be adjusted to account for that. I
do like the idea of expanding Tracking with more things in the future.
---[Raeri on 10/7 @ 14:15 writes]:
Support as per above.
---[Salome on 10/10 @ 19:08 writes]:
I support Xenthos and Shango's solutions with 3.
---[Shuyin on 10/22 @ 17:47 writes]:
Solution 1 only
---[Falmiis on 10/27 @ 22:43 writes]:
I like solution 1 the most though I'm not sure if it goes far enough and it
almost certainly doesn't address the fact that if someone gets pulled into a
fortress they'll still land in the pit and have a very low chance of getting out
alive.