115809-what-killed-the-dinosaurs-aka-where-have-all-the-wildstar-cowboys-gone

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As we stand here the brink of total server shut down (jk?), I was hoping to get some outside opinions on what killed this game. Was it too hard for the average consumer? Was poor optimization too big a factor for some people? Or was it just too outrageous of an idea, trying to build an entire new mythology around a game that couldn't count on diehard fans from a previous franchise? Does the end of WildStar signal the end of p2p mmos?
 
If I had to guess, I'd say it was the spewing, festering hate that took hold of the community, especially the pvp community, that ended this game. MMO players have gotten so spoiled rotten that they expect perfection instantaneously, and the entitlement they feel these days often results in extreme forum posts that do nothing but convince people on the edge to turn away. Negativity spreads like wildfire. (insert pun about wildfire and wildstar)
 
Second guess would be the looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of serious serious blunders by the developers. Basic things like creating an engaging story line right from the beginning instead of waiting until level 30. It was just sad that they made such an awesome game and failed in every other way.
 
So what's your opinion? What killed the Dinosaurs?	
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Are you joking? My server is fricking awesome. We have so many guilds here with large player bases and all world content is cleared on a regular basis. The guild I am part of easily has 40 active members and teamspeak is always busy! I think you are either not keeping yourself informed on the forums ( Free transfers untill next week's megaservers, so if you are a EU player, go to Ascendancy, and if you are a NA player, go to Stormtalon) or simply have not taken any initiative to join a good guild if you are already on the best servers currently.
 
This game is all about communities and it is up to you to be a part of them. Find the right one and stop spreading rumours, you old dinosaur :p	
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If I turn my graphics all the way down to 'pong' (bottom out everything) I get 16 fps in many areas.
 
...I imagine many don't have quite my patience for the abominable optimization <_<.
 
But what's really killing the game is a misplaced belief the Devs had that everyone everywhere would get into a happy-happy guild and mass up to do 5 man, 20 man, 40 man, heck even 80 man content. And that the solo player could just SOD OFF. The difficulty of the content makes PUGs about as much fun as drinking battery acid. Solo endgame is 32 days of drudgery for an amp point. Crafting (largely a solo undertaking) is getting nerfed to Halon and back because players understand the value of stats better than the guy hired to itemize the game.
 
And with the game so massively reliant on multiplayer critical mass, once a certain number of people go, you get cascade failure as it drags down more who drag down more who drag down more. Until strangely its only a handful of groups and the most patient of the solo players left.
 
Its a mistake they caught onto -- The Defile looks to be largely a solo player paradise -- but it remains to be seen if they recapture the minimum, critical population necessary to restart the engine of their main progression track.	
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As we stand here the brink of total server shut down (jk?), I was hoping to get some outside opinions on what killed this game. Was it too hard for the average consumer? Was poor optimization too big a factor for some people? Or was it just too outrageous of an idea, trying to build an entire new mythology around a game that couldn't count on diehard fans from a previous franchise? Does the end of WildStar signal the end of p2p mmos?
 
If I had to guess, I'd say it was the spewing, festering hate that took hold of the community, especially the pvp community, that ended this game. MMO players have gotten so spoiled rotten that they expect perfection instantaneously, and the entitlement they feel these days often results in extreme forum posts that do nothing but convince people on the edge to turn away. Negativity spreads like wildfire. (insert pun about wildfire and wildstar)
 
Second guess would be the looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong list of serious serious blunders by the developers. Basic things like creating an engaging story line right from the beginning instead of waiting until level 30. It was just sad that they made such an awesome game and failed in every other way.
 
So what's your opinion? What killed the Dinosaurs?
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This game is all about communities and it is up to you to be a part of them. Find the right one and stop spreading rumours, you old dinosaur :P
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			Why Chua see same topics poppin up every time and same arguments being posted every time?	
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Easy
 
What killed this game for PvE'ers -
1. Crazy hard attunement process just to get into raiding. Forget Alts
2. Terrible itemization. For example, Tank support weapons with DPS stats and vice versa, gear in adventures being better than gear in dungeons
3. Rune system. Get that sweet raid boss kill, get a weapon with terrible rune rolls making your crafted lvl 48 blues better than your epic 40 man raid boss weapon
 
What killed this game for PvPers
 
1. System that allowed tanking, preventing almost everyone who didn't Arena in the first 2 weeks from gaining rating without an 1800 tanker
2. Huge gear gaps (1200 gear, compared to1800 gear was incredible imbalanced)
3. Lose a game, lose 40 rating, win a game, gain 5
4. Serious class imbalance that continues to this day. (AKA warriors and medics)
5. Carbine's decision to take set runed pvp gear and make it all randomized, a week after stating random runes were terrible
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Why Chua see same topics poppin up every time and same arguments being posted every time?
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Easy
 
What killed this game for PvE'ers -
1. Crazy hard attunement process just to get into raiding. Forget Alts
2. Terrible itemization. For example, Tank support weapons with DPS stats and vice versa, gear in adventures being better than gear in dungeons
3. Rune system. Get that sweet raid boss kill, get a weapon with terrible rune rolls making your crafted lvl 48 blues better than your epic 40 man raid boss weapon
 
What killed this game for PvPers
 
1. System that allowed tanking, preventing almost everyone who didn't Arena in the first 2 weeks from gaining rating without an 1800 tanker
2. Huge gear gaps (1200 gear, compared to1800 gear was incredible imbalanced)
3. Lose a game, lose 40 rating, win a game, gain 5
4. Serious class imbalance that continues to this day. (AKA warriors and medics)
5. Carbine's decision to take set runed pvp gear and make it all randomized, a week after stating random runes were terrible
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Why, thank you, Olivar. I can't think of a nicer way of saying "Hey Dev's, this is a consistent and recurring concern for a lot of people! Maybe you should act on it?" ;)
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Doomsayers, Doomsayers everywhere.
 
This is still the best game I have ever played, even if it is still in beta.
And I will happily pay Carbine to continue developing this game and making it the most awesome shizzle 
the world has ever seen.	
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I've never had a problem yet on Stormtalon, finding groups and whatnot; solo content as well, on my Esper I take on primes, large groups, and the occasional mini boss just fine. True, the people I originally joined the game with have jumped ship long since because they didn't like the difficulty level of dungeons and it was very disheartening, but that doesn't take away from my enjoyment. I made new friends here in game. My guild is awesome, too (though I had to wade through several un-awesome guilds to eventually find this one!). Attunement is no longer crazy hard, and as for bad FPS and lag and optimization, I guess some people have old computers but I run the game on ultra graphics constantly with no issues.
 
Doomsayers everywhere, indeed. I personally feel like with Drop 3 coming, sure, maybe some people won't come back and some people will, but I really enjoy this game and I think things are starting to look up. True, we have problems, but they really are trying to fix things.
 
I think what "killed" the game was all these posts asking what killed the game, as well as the incredibly toxic posts on facebook. It makes the game look bad and deters new people from trying :( We have the white knights, the doomsayers, the people who don't know what to think, those with mixed feelings, and those who love it but won't speak out against the doom and gloom because they get called white knights or just dont feel like arguing it. 
 
I've seen a lot of new players lately, and new transfers onto stormtalon, and its brought a whole new life back to the game. We had a dance party in Thayd earlier of just random people. I -want- this game to succeed. It's hard to believe some times, when I browse through the forums and see people who are unhappy or impatient or are waiting it out on a dead server...but I want this to go well. I will continue to wade through the occasional bug and bump and we'll find the fun on the other side.	
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I think what "killed" the game was all these posts asking what killed the game, as well as the incredibly toxic posts on facebook. It
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Honestly these threads are getting old and boring.
 
A month ago.	
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Why, thank you, Olivar. I can't think of a nicer way of saying "Hey Dev's, this is a consistent and recurring concern for a lot of people! Maybe you should act on it?" ;)
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Sorry... am I the only one that thought the game was picking up a little even on Evindra this past week?  It wouldn't surprise me if the news of the next patch notes in progress and impending megaservers are already drawing people back.
 
I've certainly had a lot of previously lapsed guildies coming back.	
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The endgame got pasty.   (Open world disappeared)
 
It got weird.
 
I wasn't expecting to find a cap at every turn.  Armorsmithing.. Capped.. Elder Gem grinding Capped.  Everything felt slow and regulated.
 
 
To save this game, they should do what everyone single one of us MMO players dreams of.... ....An endless leveling up system. Not just a gear and weird "elder gem store items" grind.
 
Make Harder Dungeons. Sweet Gear. No more level restricted gear after 50.
 
Just get rid of all caps and restrictions.
 
THIS GAME NEEDS FREEDOM!!! 	
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Sorry... am I the only one that thought the game was picking up a little even on Evindra this past week?  It wouldn't surprise me if the news of the next patch notes in progress and impending megaservers are already drawing people back.
 
I've certainly had a lot of previously lapsed guildies coming back.
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I've noticed the opposite. Even the housing-plot RPers on my social list haven't logged on in 6 days at the shortest, and housing zone chat is very quiet most of the time - I've been afking in my housing plot and watching. Furthermore, R-12 doesn't happen anymore. When I first moved to Evindra I was drumming up support personally, giving shoutouts in housing chat, daily zones, Thayd and Malgrave, usually completing Phase 1 all by myself to lure people in. I managed to max out the rep of one character, even. But that interest is gone now. R-12s don't happen, there was one Scorchwing last night and most people seemed amazed that it happened. Nobody cares, and my other 50s are left in the dust. Evindra is currently worse than it's ever been as far as general activity goes.
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I'm not convinced that as many people are leaving as people seem to think are leaving.  I do play on Stormtalon, so that might be part of it, but I've been seeing a crapload of lower level characters running around, especially in Thayd (yes, I am exile scum).  And, I do mean, that place is crowded, like daily.
 
But, on the subject of Alts, there are two separate factions in this game.  It's very possible that if you're noticing a lack of people logging on with the characters that you have on your friends list, it is very possible that they are rolling an Alt in the other faction.  I personally plan to do the same thing soon.  Not because I have any weird issues with the Exiles or dislike them for any reason, but because Carbine did include a whole other crapload of content in the game and it would be a shame not to experience all of it.
 
So, that might be where a lot of players are going - to see the other side of the game :)	
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Are you joking? My server is fricking awesome. We have so many guilds here with large player bases and all world content is cleared on a regular basis. The guild I am part of easily has 40 active members and teamspeak is always busy! 
 
I think you are either not keeping yourself informed on the forums ( Free transfers untill next week's megaservers, so if you are a EU player, go to Ascendancy, and if you are a NA player, go to Stormtalon) or simply have not taken any initiative to join a good guild if you are already on the best servers currently.
 
This game is all about communities and it is up to you to be a part of them. Find the right one and stop spreading rumours, you old dinosaur :P
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To save this game, they should do what everyone single one of us MMO players dreams of.... ....An endless leveling up system.
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So what's your opinion? What killed the Dinosaurs?
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I see two things repeatedly:
 
* stories about "OMG my whole guild quit, my friends list is 95% offline for five months and queues are dead! "; and
* "my guild is just fine, we're stronger than ever and x/6 on GA.
 
There's no reason these aren't both true, for their respective storytellers. 
 
But what I don't see is the stories about people recruiting tons of new players,  or the hordes cluttering up the leveling zones.  Retention is important, but the real killer may be the inability to attract new customers. 
 
Also, keep some perspective: Wildstar doesn't need millions to turn a profit.  I recall a few years ago that Icarus Studios said they'd be happy for 100k or so subscribers for Fallen Earth - enough to keep the servers running and the studio operational.  While it didn't turn out the way they wanted (Fallen Earth had some big technical problems that all persist to this F2P day) it doesn't mean this isn't a valid business model. 
 
Lastly, those who think Megaservers are going to be a huge difference, consider: the majority of the population are already concentrated on a single ruleset-specific server (excepting the RP folks).  The real difference will be seen when Drop 3 arrives, IMO.  Be prepared to see few tangible differences until then. 	
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To save this game, they should do what everyone single one of us MMO players dreams of.... ....An endless leveling up system. Not just a gear and weird "elder gem store items" grind.
 
 
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But what I don't see is the stories about people recruiting tons of new players,  or the hordes cluttering up the leveling zones.  Retention is important, but the real killer may be the inability to attract new customers. 
 
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 To save this game, they should do what everyone single one of us MMO players dreams of.... ....An endless leveling up system. Not just a gear and weird "elder gem store items" grind.
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The lack of many QoL features.
The lull of communication between devs and the public.
The loss of trust between the community and the ability of devs to put out solid fixes and content.
Pushing out things that no one asked for above and beyond things that your fanbase is clamoring for.
Bugs and issues that persist from Beta to today.	
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To be honest, I don't see an endless level system as being much different from gear progression, which has already invaded true PvP.
 
 
If you're excepting the RP folks, then I suppose you're only talking about the PvP servers? RP folks are, after all, going to be part of the PvE megaserver, and the RP community seems to be one of the healthier portions of the game population and will make a good addition to the PvE megaserver. Heck, the Evindrans are already planning a big party for Saturday.
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I see two things repeatedly:
 
* stories about "OMG my whole guild quit, my friends list is 95% offline for five months and queues are dead! "; and
* "my guild is just fine, we're stronger than ever and x/6 on GA.
 
There's no reason these aren't both true, for their respective storytellers. 
 
But what I don't see is the stories about people recruiting tons of new players,  or the hordes cluttering up the leveling zones.  Retention is important, but the real killer may be the inability to attract new customers. 
 
Also, keep some perspective: Wildstar doesn't need millions to turn a profit.  I recall a few years ago that Icarus Studios said they'd be happy for 100k or so subscribers for Fallen Earth - enough to keep the servers running and the studio operational.  While it didn't turn out the way they wanted (Fallen Earth had some big technical problems that all persist to this F2P day) it doesn't mean this isn't a valid business model. 
 
Lastly, those who think Megaservers are going to be a huge difference, consider: the majority of the population are already concentrated on a single ruleset-specific server (excepting the RP folks).  The real difference will be seen when Drop 3 arrives, IMO.  Be prepared to see few tangible differences until then. 
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			yeah what he said	
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I see two things repeatedly:
 
* stories about "OMG my whole guild quit, my friends list is 95% offline for five months and queues are dead! "; and
* "my guild is just fine, we're stronger than ever and x/6 on GA.
 
There's no reason these aren't both true, for their respective storytellers. 
 
But what I don't see is the stories about people recruiting tons of new players,  or the hordes cluttering up the leveling zones.  Retention is important, but the real killer may be the inability to attract new customers. 
 
Also, keep some perspective: Wildstar doesn't need millions to turn a profit.  I recall a few years ago that Icarus Studios said they'd be happy for 100k or so subscribers for Fallen Earth - enough to keep the servers running and the studio operational.  While it didn't turn out the way they wanted (Fallen Earth had some big technical problems that all persist to this F2P day) it doesn't mean this isn't a valid business model. 
 
Lastly, those who think Megaservers are going to be a huge difference, consider: the majority of the population are already concentrated on a single ruleset-specific server (excepting the RP folks).  The real difference will be seen when Drop 3 arrives, IMO.  Be prepared to see few tangible differences until then. 
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I could list off bugs, qol, walls, gear, population, optimization, & balance but why bother when Carbine and players already know, and are fixing.  All that is fluff anyhow that can be fixed are not, my main reasons fall in two spots.
 
1. PvP queue's were not happening, server/guild died on Thunderfoot (pre free transfers).
 
2. I followed a group of friends to a PvE server at launch (entirely my fault), and they all quit with no plans to come back.  No PvE to PvP server transfers.	
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The lull of communication between devs and the public.
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			The game isnt dead, its just not wildly popular.Gaffney has been quoted saying he expected a reduction in population of 60% or more. That is normal for a new mmo. Admittedley we might have gotten a bit more then that, 75% or so. But that is what was expected, and honestly the game at its core is great, it just needs polishing, and thats what is happening. If nothing else, this game has a strong and committed community, regardless of how big it is. Eve is a great example of a game that can thrive with such a customer base.	
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