Report 282

Report #282
Skillset: Celestialism Skill: Investable(bleeding)
 Org: Celestines Status: Completed Oct 2009
Furies' Decision:
Approved, increased to 150 with a random factor.
Problem: Compared to the Nihilist investable powers, the Celestine comes off
much weaker in terms of the arsenal of afflictions his angel can use. Methrenton
in particular has some relatively weak powers: bleeding, justice, pox and flame.
The only saving grace is sensitivity.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Increase bleeding from the 'bleeding' pledge from 20
 to 200. This will make it actually worth using, as
 well as giving an indirect boost to mana drain
 available to Celestines in amissio, which is a great
 deal weaker than a nihilist's leech.
Player Comments:
---[Romero on 10/17 @ 17:48 writes]:
Leech was buffed only to drain more with deathmark which is still a hardly
noticeable buff because building a deathmark in group combat is not a viable
tactic. Nihilist also suffers from poor investments beyond
scabies/epilepsy/darksilver/shackles. The rest are useless to the point that
most systems just assume these afflictions on demon hit and focus mind, writhe,
or eat the herb. I'd prefer a more generic demon attack message rather than the
unique ones so that way our afflictions are not so easily assumed or an
increased delivery of afflictions so that we can be on par with other
nonafflictions classes that can still out affliction us including monks,
warriors, and bards. Nihilist also has bleeding investment, which if yours is
buffed I assume ours will be as well. I would suggest you focus on allowing the
guardian class to better inflict overall to put us up to par with others. Also,
a class specific suggestion I can make for you is to perhaps increase the time
of kneel or whatever that affliction is called so that you could better keep
people in the room. Also perhaps a skill akin to a mini-pfifth where the angel
clings to the person and makes it harder to leave. Or maybe we should look at
carcer, its too easy to escape a guardian when we don't have access to crazy
stuns, prones (other than my crucify which is 7p and means they are going to run
in 3 seconds if I don't do it right)
---[Mirami on 10/18 @ 00:08 writes]:
20 bleeding damage? A weevil does 60 or so [damage] to me, with splendors. I
support increasing the bleeding.
---[Nienla on 10/18 @ 04:27 writes]:
I disagree that Carcer needs a buff, as a report a few months ago explains why.
It is very strong in its current form, but I have no issue with the Bleeding
investment being more potent. Solution #1 is fine
---[Nienla on 10/18 @ 04:28 writes]:
Whether or not Nihilists need the same buff is definitely debatable, however
---[Nienla on 10/18 @ 05:23 writes]:
I would also like the bleeding to have diminishing returns so that multiple
Guardians are not stacking obscene amounts of bleeding on individuals in groups
---[Xenthos on 10/18 @ 14:25 writes]:
What? Carcer buff? Clingy angels? I'm not sure where that's coming from,
Romero, but it's completely unnecessary. Anyways, I don't mind the bleeding
thing being buffed a little bit for Celestines, but I'd rather it not also be
applied to the Nihilist pact for bleeding if at all possible (for now). That
could be handled in its own report if it becomes necessary, but Nihilists do
have a number of other useful pacts (Romero even lists them, in his "aside from"
section).
---[Romero on 10/18 @ 19:20 writes]:
I don't understand why Nihilist supposedly don't need the buff on the same
investment. If a Nihilist is using bleeding, he is clearly going for a damage
kill or a manakill which is not helped by those investments listed before. All
guardians could use a bonus to being able to increase their manakills which
still don't compare to the manadrain of wiccans at all. I am simply giving
ideas to the Celestians for some other affs they could have to be useful. If its
an investment buff that is on both sides, both sides should be considered.
balancelock on Nihilist side will be unaffected by a bleeding buff, so I would
like to know why everyone is so Anti-Nihilist about giving them something.
---[Nienla on 10/18 @ 22:00 writes]:
No one is exactly "Anti-Nihilist". It is the fact that your offense is in no way
lacking as far as investible afflictions go. You have even gone the length to
mention some the investments that you have. Nihilists do not need larger
bleeding because of Leech. Whereas Celestines are severely lacking due to
Amissio, which I do agree with. However, by no means is a Nihilist lacking
offensively with all of the methods they have of killing someone. They do not
need a buff in investments. While Inquisition is strong, I do not feel
Celestines have much else besides Inquisition to kill someone. This is why they
are more deserving to have buffs to their investments than Nihilists. It does
not need to be an equal buff to both sides
---[Ceren on 10/18 @ 22:14 writes]:
Leech was buffed because amissio was buffed and leech fell behind, and the buff
was applied through deathmark AKA 1v1 only. While yes, full deathmark leech is
stronger than amissio, they aren't as far apart as you might think except in the
case of low mana target where the base component of leech pulls it ahead. When
all's said and done, a 20 bleed invest is useless no matter who has it.
---[Ilyarin on 10/19 @ 19:14 writes]:
I wasn't aware that Nihilists had the bleeding invest. I don't think it is
particularly necessary for it to also be applied/available for Nihilists. I will
test leech strength shortly. I was told that it was significantly stronger than
amissio.
---[Nienla on 10/22 @ 00:32 writes]:
After testing with Sheia, it's been determined that it's the affliction
Haemophilia that an angel gives that causes the 20 bleeding per tick. It's not
the Angel itself. If you want to raise the bleeding to be something on par with
Redcap, I'm fine with that. However, the haemophilia aff might need to be
removed as a result.
---[Ilyarin on 10/22 @ 17:01 writes]:
I don't think that 200 bleeding + haem is too much, really. Out of aeon etc, it
provides no real problem. Inside aeon, it might increase pressure slightly but I
don't think it would ruin things terribly.
---[Nienla on 10/27 @ 01:22 writes]:
Well. I suppose there is not a huge issue with it. I would like to highly
impress that it have diminishing returns at higher levels of bleeding. Otherwise
groups of Angels plus Teleks will become too ridiculous for groups.
---[Ceren on 10/27 @ 22:19 writes]:
There are no such diminishing returns for groups of redcaps or harbingers or
even blademasters, so I don't see where the precedent for that is.