148655-will-there-ever-be-10-man-raid-content

== Content ==
			I know Carbine is trying to avoid successful Blizzard models for an MMO, however the scarce population of this game could sure use a smaller raid group requirement. 	
----
			I totally agree, even though Wildstar brings challenge to all 20 players, content with less people could be as challenging!	
----
			
There are plenty of options for it too.
 
Sim-Core version of GA and DS scaled to 10-man for a start.
 
They could even rework the Adventures into 10-man raids. Not that I'm *for*ONE*second* suggesting that we all go off on a 10-man escort quest, but the maps and the bosses could easily form the basis for a raid, especially Malgrave and Crimelords.
 
Some form of LFR would be nice, and by that I mean PUGable content. GA is *almost* that now, but that's because almost everyone PUG-ing it has done it to death on their mains. I'm after content that is easy enough for PUGs to work through. Stuff like Kuralak just takes way too much organisation and planning to be PUG friendly. One mistake by one player = wipe.	
----
			If they want to open up raiding to more people they'll have to. While 20 is a great improvement from 40 man there's still going to be roster boss issues. Ideally some form of dynamic scaling would be best.	
----
			
20 man raiding is fine:
40 was too öuch and hard to do, but the current scale is just fine.
You don't even need a full 20 man group to clear the content in Genetic Archives: So if you want to raid you can.
There's even PUG groups available	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
They could even rework the Adventures into 10-man raids. Not that I'm *for*ONE*second* suggesting that we all go off on a 10-man escort quest, but the maps and the bosses could easily form the basis for a raid, especially Malgrave and Crimelords.
----
			10 man adventures...that sounds interesting actually...	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
20 man raiding is fine:
40 was too öuch and hard to do, but the current scale is just fine.
You don't even need a full 20 man group to clear the content in Genetic Archives: So if you want to raid you can.
There's even PUG groups available
----
			
I think a unique 10 person raid slotted inbetween the dungeons and GA is a great idea. Instead of being in that awkward limbo that raid groups experience before hitting 20, they can form 2 10 person raids that combine into a 20 person GA/DS raid after. This is what 20 person GA did for 40 person DS.
 
Karazhan was a SHINING example of the success of 10 person raids. That is still one of the best raids I remember today. While a significant portion was owed to the atmosphere of Karazhan, it just was... Awe-inspiring.
 
That said, two versions of the same raid? Terrible idea. Always has been always will be. The burnout/balance problems of it is overwhelming.	
----
			i cant imagine the point of a 10 man raid ... 2 tanks 2-3 healers and 5 dps .... meh	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
10 man "raiding". hahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahhahaahahah *takes a breath* hahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You have to admire the blind stupidity of the elitist attitude, be against things for no sane reason!
 
The other night my guild went to raid, not enough people back from holidays, we really could have done with some 10 man DS raid difficulty content. Instead those that were on quickly logged off when we called it because bar grinding glory for rune bags, there's nothing else for raiders to really do apart from raid.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To clarify, I'm not really fussed about seeing 10 man versions of the current raids, would be more than happy to see new 10 man raids.
 
I have nfi why the "boss in a box" they added wasn't a 10 man. Nobody does it, but if it was a 10 man you can bet more would.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What does that have to do with elitism?
Raiding in Wildstar is "perfectly" tuned for 20 people, and is quite fun.
As I posted above, you do not need even 20 people.
We dived yesterday into Genetic Archives again and cleared the entire first floor with 15 people. It can even be done with less if people are on the ball.
 
I really don't want to see 10man versions of the current raids.I
t will take away soo much of the fun mechanics and challenges that require the 20man setup.
As well as the challenge a raid leader has for organising 20 people.
 
And yes it sucks when not enough people show up, but there's ways around that problem.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
To clarify, I'm not really fussed about seeing 10 man versions of the current raids, would be more than happy to see new 10 man raids.
 
I have nfi why the "boss in a box" they added wasn't a 10 man. Nobody does it, but if it was a 10 man you can bet more would.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Raiding in Wildstar is "perfectly" tuned for 20 people, and is quite fun.
As I posted above, you do not need even 20 people.
We dived yesterday into Genetic Archives again and cleared the entire first floor with 15 people. It can even be done with less if people are on the ball.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actually, Timetravel has come out and said that the would first create a flex-style system if they did change things.  
----
			
Well obviously the difficulty vs reward for doing boss in a box is a major reason nobody does it but but design wise it obvious doesn't have to be that way.
 
If it was a 10 man that dropped special runes useful to each class and spec I think it would definitely get used.
 
Basically I'm just REALLY looking to give raiders SOMETHING worth spending their time on outside of 20 man content. Currently most raiders are lucky to log in outside of raid times which is BAD. I'm aware you can grind glory for rune bags to get majors, but I think the reward just feels to random for most. Obviously you don't want people divine majoring up too quick, it just needs to feel reliable.
 
I'm a f2p'er but I was talking to some guildies that have been around for awhile and they mentioned that previously you could get the best runes from doing contracts. Why was this removed? Having a divine major as the top reward might give raiders more of a reason to do them.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well obviously the difficulty vs reward for doing boss in a box is a major reason nobody does it but but design wise it obvious doesn't have to be that way.
 
If it was a 10 man that dropped special runes useful to each class and spec I think it would definitely get used.
 
Basically I'm just REALLY looking to give raiders SOMETHING worth spending their time on outside of 20 man content. Currently most raiders are lucky to log in outside of raid times which is BAD. I'm aware you can grind glory for rune bags to get majors, but I think the reward just feels to random for most. Obviously you don't want people divine majoring up too quick, it just needs to feel reliable.
 
I'm a f2p'er but I was talking to some guildies that have been around for awhile and they mentioned that previously you could get the best runes from doing contracts. Why was this removed? Having a divine major as the top reward might give raiders more of a reason to do them.
----
			I'm all for more group content that's easy enough to just organize without a raid schedule. Challenging 10 man adventures sounds awesome in fact. Obviously not something you should be able to get best in slot gear from but something fun to do with mates is very welcome.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm all for more group content that's easy enough to just organize without a raid schedule. Challenging 10 man adventures sounds awesome in fact. Obviously not something you should be able to get best in slot gear from but something fun to do with mates is very welcome.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
There's already so much content in this game for players that don't have raid gear, meaningful content needs to be added for raiders outside of raid times, if the adventures were turned into 10 man challenges that dropped a few pure/divine majors on the last boss that might be content people could be interested in.
----
			
Having 10man challenge or challenge for raiders to do something outside of raids will be screamed bloody murder by the non-raiders.  I can see it now, "WHAT, I NEED TO RAID TO GET GEAR TO DO THIS CONTENT! OMG! NO!"  
 
For content that isn't raiding, I really don't understand how there isn't.  Raids are just 2 instances.  Sure there's hours of content in this but your talking dieing over and over being that hours of content.  Not everyone likes dying, especially for the awesome graveyard dude that makes fun of you when you die (haha, making it able to turn off be an option is funny to me, suck it up cupcakes).   There is alot more to do outside of raids, although there could always be more.  But I'm a little jaded because been playing for 1 1/2 years that the game has been live.  
 
Recently got to 50 on an alt, and trying to figure how a new player goes about things once at 50.  There is alot and seemed overwhelmed for me even though knew what to do.  If I did not have an idea of what to do or direction, than I would be lost and do stuff that doesnt really make you raid ready (if you were going for 50>raids asap) but it does give you alot to do.  Though some things just never happen and have to wait until contract days but a fresh 50 wouldn't know that unless someone mentioned it in forums or in game.  You have all the daily zones and rep grinds.  Amps/ability points to gain.  The keys.  Expeditions.  World boss trains (especially in LFG channel). Adventures are there but because ques dont pop for them, not so much (wish they did for that ability point for all gold adventures).  Crafting (which btw, is really good gear for preraid).  PVP, oh wait, it's go for pvp and quit because all you face are premades and get tired of losing and getting stomped on (bitter much, I know).  Vet dungeons which you can be ready for with crafted iLvl 70 gear that is cheaper than the crafted Master's Complex imbuement ones. There is a recent site put out, http://www.gamerphix.com/that does a descent job to guide dudes and dudettes but still, there's a lot to do.  Alot of this stuff has been in the game for over a year, and minor tweaks been done (world bosses, crafting) but the fact that there hasn't been to much added in a while, the vets think there really isn't much to do.
 
*Forgot HOUSING!  People be lost in there.
			
				
	Edited January 5, 2016 by Orrestes	
----
			
-Things you can do if you are not a raider:
 
Dailies. Veteran Dungeons. Veteran adventures (that nobody runs). Veteran Shiphands. Contracts (which are really more dailies). Housing. Roleplay (not actually content provided by the game, so it will stop counting the moment the RP community leaves). Crafting (the top quality gear actually requires materials only raiders can provide, so not really a non-raider activity). Levelling an alt. Maxing out your Path level. PvP. World Bosses (which only count if you are ZERGING them. Otherwise they are 20-man affair and, thus, actually raiding).
 
-Things you can do if you ARE a raider:
 
All of the above plus two raids, granting you access to the best gear in the game both by crafting and by drops.
 
Yes, this game CLEARLY needs more content for raiders.
			
				
	Edited January 5, 2016 by Ildur	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not everyone likes dying, especially for the awesome graveyard dude that makes fun of you when you die (haha, making it able to turn off be an option is funny to me, suck it up cupcakes). 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
For content that isn't raiding, I really don't understand how there isn't.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't mind dying. I just dislike hearing Holocrypt guy so I turn it off.  B)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Not bad of an idea, it would get people into the raiding scene at least.  Weekly lockout I assume? Sort of like my idea of wings and have to progress wing a prior to wing b for the week.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Yeah, that was my thought. At least one problem is I really don't think you could have a boss like Ohmna in there- I think final bosses might have to be reserved for full clears. And System Daemons would just be too much.
 
But I could even see something like Limbo being there, just tuned down for dungeon gear. I could really see non-raiders digging something like Limbo.
 
I don't think it could be all the bosses. Maybe (of the ones I've experienced) X-89, Kuralak (I think if non-raiders had a month to work on it, they could get the organization down), Phagemaw, Prototypes, and Limbo. I'd leave out Convergence, Ohmna, System Demons, and Lettuce (I know Lettuce isn't that hard, but it does seem like there's a lot of different jobs going on- seems it would be hard to pug).
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Limbo as currently is, yes.  Limbo as it was when first came out in 20man, no.  Limbo is super easy right now because problems with telegraphs and falling through the floor.  If people can't do Lettuce, than how do you expect people to do the rest of Datascape other than the mini's.  Lettuce is by far the easiest learning curve fight in DS (I'm not counting the current iteration of Limbo).  Why you usually see guilds that just downed SD, go 4/9 a couple weeks later.  
 
Idk, about tuning down fights for lesser gear.  The rewards would have to be changed to drop iLvl 90 gear.  Might as well make world bosses be instanced (I know, broken record from me but still, it's a great idea!)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'd suggested at one point (and then deleted it) and idea where you could offer real raid bosses as a boss-in-a-box one month at a time. So for one month, everyone gets access to x-89. Then next month, x-89 goes away and is replaced by Kuralak. Then next month Phagemaw. This would always provide something new and fresh for non-raiders, utilize existing content that is already there, and allow people who can't do structured raiding a chance to see the content. They could drop purple ilvl 100 items.
 
But I think there are probably downsides to this too, so I'm not sure. That's why I deleted it the first time I wrote it out.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I just remember the first time I died in the game, and heard the guy say something, and I kept laughing that I died again on purpose to hear if it was a one time thing.  It's little things like that that made me fall in love with this game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think this is an excellent idea, except leave the current loot table as it is.  I mean, if 20 people coordinate to get this boss down (and not zerged like World Bosses), then they should be rewarded the same as if they entered GA normally.  They downed it, they earned it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And this is where I have an issue. Part of the challenge of raiding is progression. Giving someone the same gear after they essentially skipped bosses isn't fair to the people who devoted time to PROGRESS through the instance. I think there should be some kind of "penalty" if you want to call it that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
And this is where I have an issue. Part of the challenge of raiding is progression. Giving someone the same gear after they essentially skipped bosses isn't fair to the people who devoted time to PROGRESS through the instance. I think there should be some kind of "penalty" if you want to call it that.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
-Things you can do if you are not a raider:
 
Dailies. Veteran Dungeons. Veteran adventures (that nobody runs). Veteran Shiphands. Contracts (which are really more dailies). Housing. Roleplay (not actually content provided by the game, so it will stop counting the moment the RP community leaves). Crafting (the top quality gear actually requires materials only raiders can provide, so not really a non-raider activity). Levelling an alt. Maxing out your Path level. PvP. World Bosses (which only count if you are ZERGING them. Otherwise they are 20-man affair and, thus, actually raiding).
 
-Things you can do if you ARE a raider:
 
All of the above plus two raids, granting you access to the best gear in the game both by crafting and by drops.
 
Yes, this game CLEARLY needs more content for raiders.
----