126076-wildstar-is-going-to-a-hybrid-free-to-play-model-in-august-what-are-your-thoughts-page-8

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Is this real life?
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Is this real life?
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Right. There are more players, so your chance to encounter them increases. This is what I'm talking about. I don't disagree with what you are saying.
 
I think you should try a little harder to actually read posts instead of pulling a victim card (for someone else) immediately and label what I've done as 'flaming'.
 
Man how things have swung around from beta, when I would be attacked for suggesting that the game would fail as a subscription model to now where I'm having to defend the game, merely as a future revenue stream for a company in a stable of products from people bashing it as worthless.
 
Is this real life?
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Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.
 
 
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Everyone's sort of talking about the type of cash shop they want to see but one thing that particularly has me confused about a lot of MMOs is the lack of a physical shop.
A website I used to go on had lots of merchandise. Backpacks, plushies, pillows, hoodies, all made featuring their own characters and designs. Absolutely LOVED it! Was crushed when they got rid of it. The only MMO I'm aware that has a physical shop is EVE, which has their own hoodie designs.
Didn't Wildstar have plushies at PAX before? There would be a huge demand for plushies that match the ones in game. I could easily see a Carrot plush remake selling out after that whole event hahaha. They could even try to go through a third party that would make things as ordered rather than having to buy a mass quantity first and hope it all sells.	
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			+1 for physical shop.	
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			Yeah, WildStar is a merchandiser's dream. Shame that it hasn't been capitalized on to any extent.	
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			I'd love to see a physical store. They have some cool shirts floating around, and the plushies... I'd be happy to fork over dollars for this stuff.	
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			Real money for virtual items is a big no-no for me. But real money for physical items, bring it. Our kids are all well aware that we play wildstar and they'd love to participate somehow. Plushies would be a neat gift for them.	
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Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.
 
C'mon- tell me I wasn't the only . . .
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			Agent Voxine merchandise please :wub: . Female mechari merchandise in general would be awesome.	
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Agent Voxine merchandise please :wub: . Female mechari merchandise in general would be awesome.
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Real money for virtual items is a big no-no for me. But real money for physical items, bring it. Our kids are all well aware that we play wildstar and they'd love to participate somehow. Plushies would be a neat gift for them.
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...Somehow I don't think Carbine needs to make you a female robot 'toy' IRL.  ;)
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide,
No escape from reality.
 
C'mon- tell me I wasn't the only . . .
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{| class="blockquote"
Everyone's sort of talking about the type of cash shop they want to see but one thing that particularly has me confused about a lot of MMOs is the lack of a physical shop.
A website I used to go on had lots of merchandise. Backpacks, plushies, pillows, hoodies, all made featuring their own characters and designs. Absolutely LOVED it! Was crushed when they got rid of it. The only MMO I'm aware that has a physical shop is EVE, which has their own hoodie designs.
Didn't Wildstar have plushies at PAX before? There would be a huge demand for plushies that match the ones in game. I could easily see a Carrot plush remake selling out after that whole event hahaha. They could even try to go through a third party that would make things as ordered rather than having to buy a mass quantity first and hope it all sells.
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They could have sold a billion Rowsdowsers on the web during beta....
 
To bad that didn't happen.
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Hell yeah... I remember a guy getting a tattoo of a Rowsdower when he hadn't even gotten in to the CBT yet! I wonder if that guy still plays...
 
Ah... here we go:
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It says "MmmmmmmMMMMBAAAAAaaaaaaah."
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One of the things that has interested me the most about this is just the lack of interest from anyone at Carbine that isn't a moderator.
 
There's a ton of good reasons not to reply to the rumors ranging from "We can't say ANYTHING without it being taken the wrong way" to "They got us, just lay low for a month or two", or any scenario in between.
 
Though something did pop into mind with the NCSoft announcement about that -other- game. This is totally from the land of tinfoil hats and Bigfoot, but it's remotely possible (or not at all).
 
Wildstar has had it's time in the NCSoft spotlight.
 
It hasn't performed nearly as well as anyone had hoped. Well, now the -other- game has been going pretty well for the past year and they're moving forward. Problem is, Wildstar generates heat far beyond it's weight class (not that any of that heat has translated into a lot of sales, but whatever). Just this rumor took over a good chunk of the previous week's news cycle for MMOs (not that this is a huge segment or anything).
 
A juicy tid-bit of information about this -other- game slipped out with the Wildstar F2P rumor so now the cat is out of the bag. So NCSoft moves forward with releasing the information that the -other- game is blah-blah-blah. NCSoft slides the Wildstar rumor under the rug so the -other- game can now shine in the spotlight Wildstar once had.
 
In a predetermined amount of time (if I was pulling a time out of my... hat, I'd say a month), they then let out the confirmation/debunking of the rumor.  The 15 minutes of fame for the rumor will have been milked dry, the -other- game will have slipped out of the news cycle, and people have gone back to not giving a cupcake about Wildstar. Then this drops in time to whip everyone into a frothy mess again.	
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I would totally buy wildstar plushies, coffee cups, tees, and figures of important characters.
 
Ooh, and maybe iphone cases, bags, necklaces, trading cards, etc. There's SO MUCH potential for merchandise! 	
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			As much as I am vehemently against an in-game cash shop, I would throw way too much money at a RL merchandise store.	
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There's an RP community in WS.  Look for Peppercorn Tanglesprout on Entity or Aliette Harkens on Jabbit and they can point you to several resources.
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As much as I am vehemently against an in-game cash shop, I would throw way too much money at a RL merchandise store.
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One of the things that has interested me the most about this is just the lack of interest from anyone at Carbine that isn't a moderator.
 
There's a ton of good reasons not to reply to the rumors ranging from "We can't say ANYTHING without it being taken the wrong way" to "They got us, just lay low for a month or two", or any scenario in between.
 
Though something did pop into mind with the NCSoft announcement about that -other- game. This is totally from the land of tinfoil hats and Bigfoot, but it's remotely possible (or not at all).
 
Wildstar has had it's time in the NCSoft spotlight.
 
It hasn't performed nearly as well as anyone had hoped. Well, now the -other- game has been going pretty well for the past year and they're moving forward. Problem is, Wildstar generates heat far beyond it's weight class (not that any of that heat has translated into a lot of sales, but whatever). Just this rumor took over a good chunk of the previous week's news cycle for MMOs (not that this is a huge segment or anything).
 
A juicy tid-bit of information about this -other- game slipped out with the Wildstar F2P rumor so now the cat is out of the bag. So NCSoft moves forward with releasing the information that the -other- game is blah-blah-blah. NCSoft slides the Wildstar rumor under the rug so the -other- game can now shine in the spotlight Wildstar once had.
 
In a predetermined amount of time (if I was pulling a time out of my... hat, I'd say a month), they then let out the confirmation/debunking of the rumor.  The 15 minutes of fame for the rumor will have been milked dry, the -other- game will have slipped out of the news cycle, and people have gone back to not giving a cupcake about Wildstar. Then this drops in time to whip everyone into a frothy mess again.
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I just want my coffee cup;) I cant believe that grown up ppl ever would want a what teddy bear? LOL...but I guess its me being from Norway....where those things are for kids.. Uh well all have their taste so it does not bother me deeply :)...and t-shirts would be cool also yes..
 
moderator edit: content
			
				
	Edited May 22, 2015 by Chillia	
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..but I guess its me being from Norway....
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What if the Teddy bear wore corpse paint?  ;)
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my dictionary fail me once again i'm sorry....corpse paint?
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my dictionary fail me once again i'm sorry....corpse paint?
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57 pages and still not a single word from Carbine on the subject. It's quite disappointing to watch them let their game fall to pieces while they suck up every cent they can get. The integrity is gone. TimeTravel needs to find a studio that will appreciate his abilities and the rest of the studio should start thinking about career changes.
 
WildStar user to be so proud... now it's just confused.	
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57 pages and still not a single word from Carbine on the subject. It's quite disappointing to watch them let their game fall to pieces while they suck up every cent they can get. The integrity is gone. TimeTravel needs to find a studio that will appreciate his abilities and the rest of the studio should start thinking about career changes.
 
WildStar user to be so proud... now it's just confused.
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I just want my coffee cup;) I cant believe that grown up ppl ever would want a what teddy bear? LOL...but I guess its me being from Norway....where those things are for kids.. Uh well all have their taste so it does not bother me deeply :)...and t-shirts would be cool also yes..
 
moderator edit: content
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57 pages and still not a single word from Carbine on the subject. It's quite disappointing to watch them let their game fall to pieces while they suck up every cent they can get. The integrity is gone. TimeTravel needs to find a studio that will appreciate his abilities and the rest of the studio should start thinking about career changes.
 
WildStar user to be so proud... now it's just confused.
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57 pages from like 10 people.
 
You're not going to "guilt" them into anything with posts like this... they know marketing and PR has a plan, and for the sake of fiduciary responsibility, they won't break from it. You'll know as soon as they can tell you... and that might even mean no news if nothing is happening.
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Yes, I think casual content ruins games.
 
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			They did listen to the wrong people, they listened to the #hardcore crowd.moderator edit: content
			
				
	Edited May 22, 2015 by Chillia	
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They did listen to the wrong people, they listened to the #hardcore crowd.
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They made the game they set out to make. They didn't listen to the players to change it.
 
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They did listen to the wrong people, they listened to the #hardcore crowd.
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The ONLY thing they've done since launch that can even vaguely be considered hardcore is the introduction of these exceptional runes and only because it take so long to get a set; no difficulty involved.
 
So I ask you, where/when have they ever listened to the hardcore crowd since launch. You can stop with that hypocritical BS when you realize how wrong you are.
 
 
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Yes, I consider myself hardcore.
Yes, I think casual content ruins games.
And yes, I think WildStar is the perfect example of that.
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I meant that they listened to the hardcore from development through the first several months after launch until it bit them in the ass. At which point yes they began to make fixes and add more casual content.
 
Hypocritical... I do not think that word means what you think it means.	
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			Another huge misconception from the misinformed. Never once have I ever been told how I should play, outside of being told that a ceryain fight requires interrupts or a CC break, which by no means is unreasonable.Really, all I want to see is one drop aimed at us. You all.claim that WS caters to the hardcore but in reality it's the exact opposite. I'm not knocking what you are choosing to do, I'm knocking the lack of relevant content.	
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No need for the arguments and name calling here folks. You can have a constructive discussion without resorting to the trolling and flamebaiting. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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@Tex
Your fun is not affecting me whatsoever. I'm happy you're enjoying yourself. I, however, feel like we've gotten nothing but useless drivel in these drops. The biggest thing that WS has going for it is some of the best PvE in the MMO world... and they keep nerfing it!
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Well, looking at how some other game is doing it, I guess you should acknowledge that raids and vet dungeons have not been made significantly easier.
 
Also, some of the stuff you listed isn't really "listening to casual", but listening to god-damn common sense.
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Wildstar has been the perfect example of how alienating players of any type, but especially those who enjoy casual content, is a death sentence. Thankfully they have staff on board now that are welcoming people in with open arms instead of shutting doors in their face.
 
Let's be clear that 'ruins games' means 'ruins games for you'. Financially, we can see a much more objective picture that doesn't support your personal ideology. But that's ok, because I think your content preference is vital and worthy to lobby for too! It's just that you already got your piece of cake and now it's everyone else's turn.
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I can't acknowledge that since they both have undergone significant content nerfs which is compounded with huge amounts of power creep. Raids and dungeons absolutely have been impacted... remember DS40?
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Well, based on financials, it doesn't seem the casual OR hardcore content has "saved" it. But I think the recent drops have made the game better and far from ruining it.
 
I for one have enjoyed the added causal content (especially vet shiphands) and hope they are able to keep it up while providing some great raid content too. Because I still primarily play this game for raids (now- I didn't used to, but once you start down that road- it's just toooooo good to focus on anything else).	
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How many people ran DS 40? 7 guilds right? So maybe 60 people per guild counting backups, or 420 people. And most of them did not make it past the first couple of bosses.
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			Besides the first boss, DS40 was easier than DS20.  A couple deaths you could live with, now, couple deaths can seriously hurt you.	
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Well, based on financials, it doesn't seem the casual OR hardcore content has "saved" it. But I think the recent drops have made the game better and far from ruining it.
 
I for one have enjoyed the added causal content (especially vet shiphands) and hope they are able to keep it up while providing some great raid content too. Because I still primarily play this game for raids (now- I didn't used to, but once you start down that road- it's just toooooo good to focus on anything else).
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Well, based on financials, it doesn't seem the casual OR hardcore content has "saved" it. But I think the recent drops have made the game better and far from ruining it.
 
I for one have enjoyed the added causal content (especially vet shiphands) and hope they are able to keep it up while providing some great raid content too. Because I still primarily play this game for raids (now- I didn't used to, but once you start down that road- it's just toooooo good to focus on anything else).
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In all honesty, I really do enjoy some vet shiphands when Qs aren't popping. I guess the reason I included them is I feel we should have had vet shiphands to begin with, but when we did finally receive them, I felt we should have been getting a little more for what we should have already had. I guess that's just being a bit greedy, but it did and didn't make sense when it happened.
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Besides the first boss, DS40 was easier than DS20.  A couple deaths you could live with, now, couple deaths can seriously hurt you.
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WoW is also a good example of how casual content overload isn't saving any subs.
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WoW is also a good example of how casual content overload isn't saving any subs.
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WoW is also a good example of how casual content overload isn't saving any subs.
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WoW is a victim of players over-optimizing the fun out of the game, just worrying about the most efficient path from one number to the next.
 
In fact, it's also what poisons games like WildStar, and when combined with a player's propensity to not want to leave all of their "progress" behind, they don't play other games.
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Peppercorn Tanglesprout?
That sounds like the name of a filthy Aurin savage. What do you take me for, worm? An Exile? I would remove your head from your shoulders if I did not think it would end up an improvement.
 
 
Sounds like somebody wants a Voxine dakimakura.
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Well, as TT said recently, players will always take the most efficient path. The key is for the developers to make that path fun. I think they really have nailed that in the current iteration of the game. (Actually, I've felt that every step of the way, but I wasn't raiding much pre drop 3).
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the more you raid (especially when doing DS) the less the rest of the game's pve make sense. you'll faceroll everything without trying.
gear needs to be scaled depending on the zone you go into (not a major scaling, but enough so that you don't 2 shot mobs in star comm for example).
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One of the things that has interested me the most about this is just the lack of interest from anyone at Carbine that isn't a moderator.
 
There's a ton of good reasons not to reply to the rumors ranging from "We can't say ANYTHING without it being taken the wrong way" to "They got us, just lay low for a month or two", or any scenario in between.
 
Though something did pop into mind with the NCSoft announcement about that -other- game. This is totally from the land of tinfoil hats and Bigfoot, but it's remotely possible (or not at all).
 
Wildstar has had it's time in the NCSoft spotlight.
 
It hasn't performed nearly as well as anyone had hoped. Well, now the -other- game has been going pretty well for the past year and they're moving forward. Problem is, Wildstar generates heat far beyond it's weight class (not that any of that heat has translated into a lot of sales, but whatever). Just this rumor took over a good chunk of the previous week's news cycle for MMOs (not that this is a huge segment or anything).
 
A juicy tid-bit of information about this -other- game slipped out with the Wildstar F2P rumor so now the cat is out of the bag. So NCSoft moves forward with releasing the information that the -other- game is blah-blah-blah. NCSoft slides the Wildstar rumor under the rug so the -other- game can now shine in the spotlight Wildstar once had.
 
In a predetermined amount of time (if I was pulling a time out of my... hat, I'd say a month), they then let out the confirmation/debunking of the rumor.  The 15 minutes of fame for the rumor will have been milked dry, the -other- game will have slipped out of the news cycle, and people have gone back to not giving a cupcake about Wildstar. Then this drops in time to whip everyone into a frothy mess again.
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I can't acknowledge that since they both have undergone significant content nerfs which is compounded with huge amounts of power creep. Raids and dungeons absolutely have been impacted... remember DS40?
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Way more points of failure in 40; certain bosses are easier in 20 others are harder mainly has to do with how they were tuned on 40 though.  There is also one fight that was never killed in 40 we needed one more night on it :(  If things are tuned the exact same 40 will always be harder due to more points of failure.
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There is just one tiny little problem with that logic: this news is not making them any money, it is costing them money. When people who are *currently* playing a game hear it is going F2P, some of them decide to just cancel and wait. When people who are NOT currently playing a game here it is going F2P, they don't go sub up, they just wait until its free. So this "time in the spotlight" is not benefiting this game in any way. It is not bringing in new players, it is only costing them some current subs.
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Well, ok. DS40 wasn't nerfed because it was too hard, but because of roster boss > all. The result is easier you argue? Maybe, but the change wasn't done because casuals whined that it was too hard.
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I'd say people who don't like the game enough to make it their sub game, are just as likely to drop off any day anyway, with or without F2P news.
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			I don't think they can address it until all the pieces are in place. Think about it, a F2P transition is going to include new servers (we all know entity isn't a real "megaserver"), new back end tech support, new financials, etc. These things might take a few months to work out and they are NOT going to make a F2P announcement now as we would see a mass exodus until F2P system is ready. That would be terrible for the game as a lot of people may never come back. 	
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I'm not talking about people who "don't like the game enough". I'm talking 2 groups of people:
 
1) people who are currently playing, like the game, but are maybe a little jaded. They hear the game is going F2P, so they decide to just cancel and take a little break until they can play for free.
 
2) people who are NOT currently playing, and might be interested in checking out the game. They hear that F2P is coming, so they decide to just wait until they can try it for free.
 
If the game *werent'* going F2P(which it is), they would want to say so, so that people in group 1 would have no reason to leave, and people in group 2 would not be waiting on some hypothetical date to try out the game.
 
The whole "they aren't saying anything because they just want their 15 minutes of fame" logic only makes sense if the 15 mins of fame is helping them. In this case, however, it is not, and is actually hurting them.
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I don't think they can address it until all the pieces are in place. Think about it, a F2P transition is going to include new servers (we all know entity isn't a real "megaserver"), new back end tech support, new financials, etc. These things might take a few months to work out and they are NOT going to make a F2P announcement now as we would see a mass exodus until F2P system is ready. That would be terrible for the game as a lot of people may never come back. 
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I mean all of your arguments are hypothetical sooo......
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I disagree, than whats the point of getting raid gear?  To get better in raids but not in the world?  Nah, I like doing the hard content and hours spent so I can 2 shot mobs in star comm.  Sort of reward for my pain and suffering and rollercoaster rides.  If you don't want to 2shot mobs, take some gear off.
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They did listen to the wrong people, they listened to the #hardcore crowd.
 
moderator edit: content
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I disagree, than whats the point of getting raid gear?  To get better in raids but not in the world?  Nah, I like doing the hard content and hours spent so I can 2 shot mobs in star comm.  Sort of reward for my pain and suffering and rollercoaster rides.  If you don't want to 2shot mobs, take some gear off.
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Actually, the weekly maintenance preceding the World First downing of DS40 Avatus could reasonably have been renamed The Avatus Is Too Hard Nerf Patch. I remember because at least some of us found it really funny that the entirety of the patch notes that week was all the ways in which difficulty was being reduced on a undefeated boss that was only a week or two away from being removed from the game.
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			so is the game f2p yet?	
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At this point I imagine the rumor must have a good amount of truth in it. If it were not true, then there would have been denial at this point.
 
I recommend you ang onto your sub though. There should be special treats for those of us that paid subs all this time. Maybe we will have a "founder" label or some such.	
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raid gear is exponential and imo breaks the new "lvl 50 content".
 
i am very big in favour of scaling gear power a little bit so that you could even go into a lvl 20 zone and not "1 shot mobs". something akin to gw2.
while you would be stronger than others if you have the gear, the gap would not be as bad as to make everything else a push over.
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The main difficulty of avatus after learning the 4 mini fights was just getting to the cannons with everyone alive.  The first time we did that clean we killed it I believe.
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The hope/expectation of a much larger (F2P) population in the near future has actually made me sub until then, 'cause I couldn't wait to play again.
I'm probably the minority, but I'm surely not the only one.
 
Everyone I know that played Wildstar loved it, but left in the post-launch exodus. Without sub, they'd be back in a heart-beat if population boomed, because they never wanted to leave in the first place (and none of the m left because of the sub). Last week back in has been a great ride. Nexus is just too good to fade away, and it shouldn't.
 
My sights are still on June 3th for some good news.	
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Without sub, they'd be back in a heart-beat if population boomed, because they never wanted to leave in the first place (and none of the m left because of the sub). 
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That's contradictory!
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This is how i see WS survive:)
Drop sub and go free to play
loose the whole attunement thing...
make multiple quing possible. You should be able to que for ALL content at once. This is GREAT for pugging:)
Make the warplots into BG
reduce the need to constantly interupt mobs..or make it so that it just give 10% more dmg or so..making it not mandatory, but a little bonus.
loose the one-shotter mechanic from all but the ultra-hard mode for raids
and make raids puggable, normal and heroic or something (they are ofc puggable to a certain degree, but the attunement system sort of stop all casuals)
And...loose the mandatory spam attack that i think all classes have...its making many player develop mouse-sickness syndrome (I believe thats the reason WOW dont have it)	
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This is how i see WS survive:)
Drop sub and go free to play
loose the whole attunement thing...
make multiple quing possible. You should be able to que for ALL content at once. This is GREAT for pugging:)
Make the warplots into BG
reduce the need to constantly interupt mobs..or make it so that it just give 10% more dmg or so..making it not mandatory, but a little bonus.
loose the one-shotter mechanic from all but the ultra-hard mode for raids
and make raids puggable, normal and heroic or something (they are ofc puggable to a certain degree, but the attunement system sort of stop all casuals)
And...loose the mandatory spam attack that i think all classes have...its making many player develop mouse-sickness syndrome (I believe thats the reason WOW dont have it)
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{| class="blockquote"
 
This is how i see WS survive:)
Drop sub and go free to play
loose the whole attunement thing...
make multiple quing possible. You should be able to que for ALL content at once. This is GREAT for pugging:)
Make the warplots into BG
reduce the need to constantly interupt mobs..or make it so that it just give 10% more dmg or so..making it not mandatory, but a little bonus.
loose the one-shotter mechanic from all but the ultra-hard mode for raids
and make raids puggable, normal and heroic or something (they are ofc puggable to a certain degree, but the attunement system sort of stop all casuals)
And...loose the mandatory spam attack that i think all classes have...its making many player develop mouse-sickness syndrome (I believe thats the reason WOW dont have it)
 
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			Hold to cast. Anyone?	
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WildStar has to stay WildStar to thrive, and every one of these requests kill the experience.
Please stop trying to play a multiplayer game like a single player game.
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Which is all well and good, but removing key aspects of the combat is easily a debatable point. The trick is for W* to progress and grow whilst retaining much of its identity.
 
Edit: furthermore, I feel like the game actually caters for a wide variety of people already. I suspect an issue comes from players coming to it, wanting to get further and further, and being putoff by various barriers (since lowered/made easier to climb over), even as there was already a wide-range of content - housing, various tiers of PvE, PvP, solo stuff - there already. Created some kind of disconnect, in the sense people felt alienated and ground down by the (say) attunement process. The content is/was not exactly all top-notch, and one could argue there was not enough of it (although at launch W* did have a massive amount of content), but for all the 'hardcore' nonsense, they clearly aimed wider.	
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Actually, given the known demographics of MMORPGs, Wildstar alienates somewhere between 60-70% of its customerbase by intentional design. That's not going to thrive by staying the way it is unless it successfully captures a huge fraction of the remaining 30-40%--which it did not do. And given the number of MMORPGs out there, this should not have come as a surprise to anyone.
 
Please stop telling the rest of us to play the game the way you find fun, rather than the ways we find fun.
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			No flying is a very good decision, I think ^^	
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Well what is "Wildstar flavor"? Off the top of my mind these things come to mind: 
- Coordinated interupt rotations 
- Combat that makes you tunnel vision on the floor (telegraphs) 
- Highly technical combat / "rotations" 
- Hardcore PvE content that has many barriers to entry and is demoralizing to the majority of MMO players 
- Holocrypt guy who laughs at you when you die 
 
I don't think they really need to keep true to all these things. 
 
 
{| class="blockquote"
The way I find it fun is the way it was designed. There are plenty more of me out there, and all they have to do is methodically pull them in.Something tells me a 3 million sub loss with yesterdays no flying announcement is going to point a lot of people in this direction.WildStar needs to stay WildStar. The players are coming.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
 
This is how i see WS survive:)
Drop sub and go free to play
loose the whole attunement thing...
make multiple quing possible. You should be able to que for ALL content at once. This is GREAT for pugging:)
Make the warplots into BG
reduce the need to constantly interupt mobs..or make it so that it just give 10% more dmg or so..making it not mandatory, but a little bonus.
loose the one-shotter mechanic from all but the ultra-hard mode for raids
and make raids puggable, normal and heroic or something (they are ofc puggable to a certain degree, but the attunement system sort of stop all casuals)
And...loose the mandatory spam attack that i think all classes have...its making many player develop mouse-sickness syndrome (I believe thats the reason WOW dont have it)
 
----
			
Speaking as a healer, I can honestly say I prefer that type of tunnel-vision to that of just looking at green bars.
 
That said, not everybody is the same.
 
As for rotations, it depends: I've cleared raids with big, big disparities between the high-end DPS and the lower, newer guys. Yes, it's not strictly fair on the high-end guys and gals, but the point is the raid was cleared.	
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I don't believe many more changes to game core systems are needed, they are not for all and that's fine, having enough group play, solo and PvP play and offer a decent progression structure to it without resetting the gear grind all to often.
 
All this game really needs is to come back on the market and be highly accessible and that means F2P, no barrier easy setup and easy install. See how well Tera strived and before it also had a lot of similar criticism Wildstar had at their P2P launch (that being dull questing/leveling, too much twitch based...) and look how it does now.
 
Add a cash shop with outfits on here, pets and mounts and frequently put in promotions and you'll easily see this game revenue double from where it stands now. 
 
P2P exclusive titles are pretty much a niche nowadays due to the saturation of the mmo market. FFXIV can pull it off simply due to their market position in Japan that ensures them a decent revenue stream not only that, the JRPG scene is quite big and the game is also fairly accessible on every level. (raids are fairly easy to any seasoned player), beyond that you have WoW, that also notice major drops and that mainly keeps people due to their expansion hype and the social ties people have build up and it's still for a lot of people their fall back mmo, then there's EVE a game. The two latter games also allow you to pay with ingame currency game time from others. (it' rather interesting to note that Game time in EU on WoW is twice the price of that on the US side)
 
I honestly see no objective reason for this game to stick to a P2P exclusive model. You might not like some changes or that some content is coming up in stores but it will beat playing a game whos funds are going to dry up and being maintained by a skeleton crew till NCsoft pulls the plug.
 
Especially with the popularity of Tera, blade and soul is also going to create some competition on the more arpgs market.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Or you could learn to stop chasing off players simply because what they want isn't what you want.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
WildStar has to stay WildStar to thrive, and every one of these requests kill the experience.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Wildstar already is Wildstar, and it's NOT thriving. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Well, we'll disagree on this and I'm sure alot of other players will too.  Whats the point of levels if this was the case?  Seriously, whats the point if wherever you go, you scale to the mobs.  Never got that in GW2.  I understand if you want the option to, but you can do that now, just have to group with a lower level player.  And breaking the content, I can still do the new stuff, just can do it a little better than others due to my raid gear.  
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{| class="blockquote"
It's almost like there are hard numbers to back this up...
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In my personal opinion, Wildstar has three specific target demographics: people who love raiding, people who love customization, and people who love PvP.
 
Let's break down why each area is a target demographic. Wildstar has great challenging raids, easily the best raiding of any game many like to say. Wildstar's costume & housing systems dominates any MMO I have ever encountered, most MMOs don't even have housing. The very storyline of Wildstar relies on PvP. What is the point of creating two factions, making people commit to one, and then developing lore between them if PvP was not a point they wanted to hit home? Okay so we've established the three target demographics.
 
The issue is these demographics are only catered to in pieces rather than as a whole. There are completely contradictory elements involved in gameplay and overall tone.
When it comes to Wildstar, I personally am absolutely the target demographic for this game. Sci-fi atmosphere, cartoony stylized look, housing, costume customization, pets, and exploration. I am absolutely the target demographic for this game. But when it comes to gameplay, constant awareness, the inability to just stand in one place for 5 minutes or fear death by nearby mobs, being mocked when I die, I don't care about raiding, and I like to do dungeons alone, I am absolutely NOT the target demographic.
 
Well why is this an issue? It's an issue because on one hand, I have this amazing area of choice of options while in the other, I have no choice, no say, no tweaks, no anything. There's an entire area of gameplay I just have to deal with solely because there are no other options. The biggest issue with Wildstar I think is the illusion of choice. You have choice, but only in picking the area that appeals to you. There are certain elements of gameplay where if you don't like how it's done, you either have to deal with it or not do it and most players do not like this. Raiders are happy but believe that making raids more accessible means they'll have less rewarding content. Customization people are satisfied but limited because many areas of collection, such as pets or dyes, are gated by difficult gameplay or chance. PvP players are angry because their servers are dead and they don't have the great choice to PvP the same way PvE players have with PvE. The core of this game is scattered because of the lack of options for all.
 
It really bothers me that there are people who so adamantly believe there can not be a happy medium that pleases all demographics for Wildstar. That all the audiences can't exist together despite the fact that Wildstar intentionally has tried to appeal to them all. These three demographics are absolutely what makes Wildstar Wildstar so why not spread and satisfy them all? Why can't there be hardcore raids and easy raids? Why can't there be strict dungeons and solo dungeons? PvP should get more attention because it's literally in the lore. It is absolutely not doing Wildstar any favors being this rigid when they're already hurting this way. The same with people who continuously say they want to keep the “kids” out. To me, this is just baffling. Wildstar is rated T for Teen, it is for teens, meaning you should expect that teens. Yes anyone 13 years old or older, is also included in these target demographics, who did not grow up with WOW and thus expect a different MMO market. Wildstar feels like a game that was made over a long period of time because it feels like it's stretched over different markets into one game and I think this is it's major weakness. I can absolutely say it was part of what kept me away from playing this game for so long.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
This is how i see WS survive:)
Drop sub and go free to play Arguable. It will very likely bring at least a short term influx of players.
loose the whole attunement thing... Think of it not as attunement, but just another quest chain. Though we can talk about whether the rep grind and WB hunt should be dropped.
make multiple quing possible. You should be able to que for ALL content at once. This is GREAT for pugging:) I'm all for it!
Make the warplots into BG In terms of size of your team? Ok, but not sure if I'd want CRB to spend their time on this.
reduce the need to constantly interupt mobs..or make it so that it just give 10% more dmg or so..making it not mandatory, but a little bonus. No. Another facet of interrupting telegraphs is to avoid getting punched int he face. Without this the fights get very boring again for tanks and healers, something W* tried to avoid.
loose the one-shotter mechanic from all but the ultra-hard mode for raids Really? Hmm, maybe check all the instances of this mechanic and see whether it is actually made clear why you got one-shot. Was you failing a mechanic, you have 30 stacks of a debuff, or what? I do agree getting one shot without knowing what happened is frustrating.
and make raids puggable, normal and heroic or something (they are ofc puggable to a certain degree, but the attunement system sort of stop all casuals) How about we replace all the raid mobs and bosses with jabbits that have 1hp and don't attack and call that normal mode? Making a raid "puggable" is a very tricky endeavor, because it's a moving target. What's puggable for you might not be puggable for the next group, so they want the raid another 10% easier. And then it's too easy for you. 
And...loose the mandatory spam attack that i think all classes have...its making many player develop mouse-sickness syndrome (I believe thats the reason WOW dont have it) Wat?
 
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{| class="blockquote"
The way I find it fun is the way it was designed. There are plenty more of me out there, and all they have to do is methodically pull them in.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well what is "Wildstar flavor"? Off the top of my mind these things come to mind: 
- Coordinated interupt rotations 
- Combat that makes you tunnel vision on the floor (telegraphs) 
- Highly technical combat / "rotations" 
- Hardcore PvE content that has many barriers to entry and is demoralizing to the majority of MMO players 
- Holocrypt guy who laughs at you when you die 
 
I don't think they really need to keep true to all these things. 
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{| class="blockquote"
In my personal opinion, Wildstar has three specific target demographics: people who love raiding, people who love customization, and people who love PvP.
 
The issue is these demographics are only catered to in pieces rather than as a whole. There are completely contradictory elements involved in gameplay and overall tone.
When it comes to Wildstar, I personally am absolutely the target demographic for this game. Sci-fi atmosphere, cartoony stylized look, housing, costume customization, pets, and exploration. I am absolutely the target demographic for this game. But when it comes to gameplay, constant awareness, the inability to just stand in one place for 5 minutes or fear death by nearby mobs, being mocked when I die, I don't care about raiding, and I like to do dungeons alone, I am absolutely NOT the target demographic.
 
Well why is this an issue? It's an issue because on one hand, I have this amazing area of choice of options while in the other, I have no choice, no say, no tweaks, no anything. There's an entire area of gameplay I just have to deal with solely because there are no other options. The biggest issue with Wildstar I think is the illusion of choice. You have choice, but only in picking the area that appeals to you. There are certain elements of gameplay where if you don't like how it's done, you either have to deal with it or not do it and most players do not like this. Raiders are happy but believe that making raids more accessible means they'll have less rewarding content. Customization people are satisfied but limited because many areas of collection, such as pets or dyes, are gated by difficult gameplay or chance. PvP players are angry because their servers are dead and they don't have the great choice to PvP the same way PvE players have with PvE. The core of this game is scattered because of the lack of options for all.
 
It really bothers me that there are people who so adamantly believe there can not be a happy medium that pleases all demographics for Wildstar. That all the audiences can't exist together despite the fact that Wildstar intentionally has tried to appeal to them all. 
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{| class="blockquote"
First of all, this game absolutely does NOT cater to PvP. It just happens to be an MMO that has PvP in it, as opposed to being a PvP centric MMO. The PvP is okay but no one wants to pay a sub fee for the PvP in this game it is absolutely not worth it relative to other options out on the market. 
 
I liked your point about the illusion of choice. I think it is because in WS character progression is fundamentally tied to gear progression. This is the case in other games, but it is not as extreme as it is in WS. In WS you hit level cap extremely quickly, get amp and ability points for underwhelming power gains, then stare at endless gear progression and hardcore 20 man raiding. So what do you run around collecting things until you get bored? That does not justify a sub. In other games like ESO you are able to customize and grow your character endlessly. Growth is much more horizontal with the sky shard system as you are constantly gaining passives, gaining and morphing new skills among multiple skill trees. You always feel like you are progressing your character and is not completely limited to gear. 
 
About your last point, I actually disagree. Wildstar has a very small world. People only inhabit a small percentage of the available open world and so you create a lot of friction by pushing different types of players together. At least to me, this game feels like it has two separate classes of citizens. There is the "upper class" which consists of your raiders. They do the difficult content, get to show off their fancy gear standing around in thayd, get special mounts, and even have enormous benefits in PvP since a lot of raid gear is BiS PvP gear. Then there is everyone else. These players spend their time running around collecting pets and dye bags, being talked down to in pug dungeon runs, being laughed at for low DPS or unruned gear, they live in a world where it feels like they are relegated to second hand content. It does not surprise me that so many of these people left. I don't think WS delivered in creating a happy, positive world for a very large percentage of people. 
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{| class="blockquote"
That's contradictory!
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{| class="blockquote"
Without sub, they'd be back in a heart-beat if population boomed, because they never wanted to leave in the first place (and none of the m left because of the sub).
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{| class="blockquote"
It really bothers me that there are people who so adamantly believe there can not be a happy medium that pleases all demographics for Wildstar. That all the audiences can't exist together despite the fact that Wildstar intentionally has tried to appeal to them all. These three demographics are absolutely what makes Wildstar Wildstar so why not spread and satisfy them all? Why can't there be hardcore raids and easy raids? Why can't there be strict dungeons and solo dungeons? PvP should get more attention because it's literally in the lore. It is absolutely not doing Wildstar any favors being this rigid when they're already hurting this way. 
----
			
I remember that discussion. It went something like this:
 
"Why not provide an easy version of the raids along with the current ones?"
 
"Because then nobody would run the hard versions. Duh!"
 
"Naturally the rewards would be lesser since it's, you know, easier."
 
"But think of how much time the developers would need to spend on tunning it! It would be a waste of time! They could be using it to make MORE current difficulty raids for us!"
 
"Are you saying that developing stuff to keep everyone pleased is worse than giving more stuff to the 1%?"
 
"Yes! Duh!"
 
Fun times.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You cannot please both groups simultaneously because what the first group wants, the second group does not want for them to be allowed to have.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
"Are you saying that developing stuff to keep everyone pleased is worse than giving more stuff to the 1%?"
 
"Yes! Duh!"
 
Fun times.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Kinda like how the hardcore raiders are fine with their awesome gear making solo PvE content trivial, but it's bad to have easy raids just so the casual PvE'ers can simply see the content.
 
I swear there was a discussion a year or more ago that there would be this difference in gear types, such that raid gear would have stats making it less than optimal for solo/dungeon PvE content. But that's a topic for another thread I guess.
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{| class="blockquote"
Depends on the reasons. Sub is a part most likely of the reason but not the main cause.
In my friend group that played WS the problem was mostly the decline in population and at the start (till drop 3) the attunement phase. Many have said they will want to give WS another go IF it goes free to play with the hopes of a better game and population.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
This is really silly. 1) The attunement chain has been vastly improved with only requiring bronze. 2) All these people waiting to return because they're waiting for a bigger population... FFS, if they all just came back, the game would have a bigger population. -_-;
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In my personal opinion, Wildstar has three specific target demographics: people who love raiding, people who love customization, and people who love PvP.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nothing for housing?  I guess you could toss that in with customization, but barely.
----
			
You can say attunement improved but it's still an arbitrary step that you do not have to take in a lot of other games. So if I am a new player and looking at games like Rift, Tera, SWTOR, and Wildstar and thinking now might be the time to change to one of them for raiding. I see all of the other games all I have to do is level and I can start grouping and raiding right away, then I look at Wildstar and think sweet now I have a bazillion step quest to do before I can even get in the game. Not to mention people hate having to run a lot of the stuff so you can.t even just queue for it. Oh well.
 
I remember when it was silvers for dungeons and none of us had gear and people just left the game left and right because they thought it was to hard. That didn't do us a lot of favors. Attunement is boring and puts a barrier in place to the best content this game has. The only reason it even got feedback in beta was because the few fifty's there got excited to run dungeons. Most testers didn't even finish or get started on it. I say get rid of the whole damn thing let guilds sort out there own raiders and if for some reason you need to or really want to keep it, just make it so you have to purchase the key, then beat Ohmna before DS. Done and Done. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah but it's not like these players have been sitting still some moved to GW2 or started playing FFXIV or ESO, they have no reason to "commit" to wildstar and start subbing again. They left for a reason and now with the low population and no clear future for wildstar they rather progress in other games where they are enjoying themselves and where they don't have to worry if the game will still be here over 3 months.
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{| class="blockquote"
nobody is surprised by wildstar's downfall.
even as a f2p, you'll have a resurgence but it won't last long. the bottlenecking endgame if it stays the same and the powercreep and the badly designed pvp zerg will just wash away all the corpses and you'll be left with another empty coast very, very, fast.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can say attunement improved but it's still an arbitrary step that you do not have to take in a lot of other games.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. - Thomas Paine
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You don't realize how this is a self-fulfilling prophecy? If people weren't hanging on to old complaints that have next to zero real weight anymore, they wouldn't have to worry about the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's why I would think that Carbine would be valuing their paying customers by now a little more than they value the hashtag #hardcore.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You don't realize how this is a self-fulfilling prophecy? If people weren't hanging on to old complaints that have next to zero real weight anymore, they wouldn't have to worry about the game.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Let me say it again, they moved on.
Really, think about a reason why they should care about wildstar?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is the attitude and approach to WildStar by players that has changed more so than the game has. 
 
Most players left for no meaningful reason, and they're coming back for no meaningful reason. But because it's not in it's launch period and they don't set the same imaginary expectations, they are more able to see the game as it was intended and designed -- and as a result, see it much more favorably the second time around.  
 
This is not to slight Carbine for any changes they *have* made, but, the game is still the WildStar it was when they left. Except now they have the patience to see it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It is the attitude and approach to WildStar by players that has changed more so than the game has. 
 
Most players left for no meaningful reason, and they're coming back for no meaningful reason. But because it's not in it's launch period and they don't set the same imaginary expectations, they are more able to see the game as it was intended and designed -- and as a result, see it much more favorably the second time around. 
 
This is not to slight Carbine for any changes they *have* made, but, the game is still the WildStar it was when they left. Except now they have the patience to see it.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can keep repeating that but it's not going to make it true. People left for many valid reasons and returned when they saw changes to the things that bothered them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can keep repeating that...
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You can keep repeating that but it's not going to make it true. People left for many valid reasons and returned when they saw changes to the things that bothered them.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's already true. This is the typical 12-month MMO amnesty period where players develop amnesia about the reason they ever quit a game in the first place. They "come back" and boom, suddenly the game is "better"
 
Happens every time. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Actually, for most games I can think of the thing that makes a few players come back is stuff like fixing "bugs" and improving "optimization", along with "QoL changes" and an additional year of "content". In games that really screwed it up at launch, they also have to do things like "reitemization" and add entire tiers of "veteran content" for players, as well as "alternative progression pathways" and softening of "design flaws".
 
To the extent that they do these things sincerely and in a spirit of recognizing and responding to constructive criticism, they can recover players and relaunch successfully. FF:ARR is a great example of this.
 
To the extent that they do it reluctantly and half-heartedly, refusing to acknowledge the people who are actually paying their salaries and passive-aggressively tossing in gambleboxes and grinds as a replacement for viable fixes to their game, they don't recover very many players and end up doing a "business model transition". This game is a great example of this.
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{| class="blockquote"
I'm convinced WildStar's long-term success means being true to its design, and courting players who understand it. That doesn't mean they need to find them all next month. There is an audience out there for games like WildStar and many of us are here. There are many many more of us out there. Changing WildStar into another game would be the worst possible move.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. - Thomas Paine
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{| class="blockquote"
I find it so fascinating that you are adamant about Wildstar and it's subscription, and talking how horrible either free-or-buy-to-play would make the game, yet you host a podcast for an upcoming buy-to-play game (with optional sub).
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{| class="blockquote"
WildStar was never intended to be a b2p or f2p game, and without question the vision of the game will suffer from any such transition.
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{| class="blockquote"
What can I say... I'm here to fascinate!
 
WildStar was never intended to be a b2p or f2p game, and without question the vision of the game will suffer from any such transition.
 
Crowfall is being designed with its business model that way from the ground up.
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I have to agree with Lethality on that F2P's effect on the game will be a step down. I have not seen any game that made that transition to F2P without having to murder a part of it to fuel the Cash Shop. Not that I blame them, particularly: they need to make money and the way to make it in those games is to do that. 
The game might live with that model but...it's not a guarantee if it can't retain the whales.
 
What I do not agree with is the idea that WS needs players who 'understand it'...which is a hilarious euphemism for 'it needs the Hardcore!'. The game was never as Hardcore! as it was at launch, with endgame raiding and dungeons being its only focus (and I'd argue it's still its only focus, but details). That didn't help, did it? It also has had almost a year to find players 'who understand it'. How much more time do we have to grant it? Another year? Ten? Until it works?
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
And I don't think that de-emphasizing hardcore content, exclusivity, and privilege for a few special snowflakes would in fact change Wildstar into another game at all. It would retain its setting, tone, and core mechanics.
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{| class="blockquote"
Don't worry, you'll find me on the Crowfall forums too! But I think the devs there are a bit smarter about who they will listen to than the WildStar devs were. I've already seen plenty of terrible ideas shot down since the forums were launched.
 
In any case... it's a pvp game so get ready! :-)
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{| class="blockquote"
There will be no design ideas from the Crowfall community that ACE will implement.
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{| class="blockquote"
I fully expect your predictions to be as accurate as always! *looks at email from 15 May where devs ask for input on their currency system*
 
Yup... just as accurate! Keep it up, Nostradamus.
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Holy crap. Crowfall looks like it's going to be amazing!
 
*breaks out the checkbook*	
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{| class="blockquote"
Holy crap. Crowfall looks like it's going to be amazing!
 
*breaks out the checkbook*
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{| class="blockquote"
There were no design ideas from the WildStar community that Carbine implemented, and there will be no design ideas from the Crowfall community that ACE will implement. They will build precisely the game they want to, and like always, players will like it or they won't.
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{| class="blockquote"
It should indeed.
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{| class="blockquote"
Lethality-endorsed, huh?
 
*crosses Crowfall off the list of games to watch*
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{| class="blockquote"
Yup... just like every good crowdfunded project.... seek "input" from the backers!
 
Of course as you must know, they've already gone back on their design with currency... despite what the players wanted.
 
Yup... keep it up, Caspar!
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{| class="blockquote"
Oh man I do enjoy when you get worked up about facts that contradict your fairy tale world.
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