142438-aurin-still-cant-be-medics-or-engi-this-makes-me-sad-page-2

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Basically, he just wrote the "lore law" and then meta-talked his way out of the lore for when the time comes to open up classes.
 
That should not happen.
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As a roleplayer there is no reason why any class should be restricted based on lore. The implications are absurd ESPECIALLY in a game like Wildstar in which for whatever reason beings are capable of spaceflight and traveling beyond-light-speeds.
 
I understand if its a technical limitation at present, that is absolutely fine.
 
Whats making me frustrated is that there is ZERO in way of hints of whether or not the devs are actually going to commit to making the classes available to all races. Or I maybe missed that.
 
REALLY all I need is at least confirmation that there is at least an attempt at doing it because Chua Warriors is a thing that needs to happen, along with Draken Engineers. 
 
I'd rather my heart be broken than be frustrated by dreams that may never come to fruition. 	
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As a roleplayer there is no reason why any class should be restricted based on lore. The implications are absurd ESPECIALLY in a game like Wildstar in which for whatever reason beings are capable of spaceflight and traveling beyond-light-speeds.
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I think the big problem leading to the imbalance - popularity of Aurin aside - is that a lot of people coming into the game can easily identify with the role of a plucky rebel fighting against authority. They don't even need to know why they're rebelling. They just have to think "the other side must be the bad guys". Of course there are people who like playing "the Evil Empire" or are interested enough in the motivation of the "bad guys" to find that the Horde or the Dominion aren't what they appear to be at first glance, but yeah, the Dominion really needs some good PR. :D
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			Or Carbine could do the smart thing and just abolish the faction split since it's not actually serving any real purpose in the game outside of some flimsy lore of Dominion vs Exiles.  It has zero gameplay value outside of PVP servers where people troll each other and gank.     Stop and really think about it objectively.  There are no world PVP objectives. There is no focus on world PVP from the devs, there never has been.  PVP servers exist only to satisfy those players who want that kind of random combat experience.   Wildstar is not a PVP-centric game.   This is another of the subjects that I really view as a fundamental mistake for MMORPGs. It's just in the game because other games of the genre have it.  It really, honestly does not serve to promote or enhance the game in any way. So why is it there? In several ways it's actually HURTING the game by splitting the playerbase.  Faction imbalance exists because....why?  Why are we even dealing with this problem at all?  For LORE?    It's exactly the same as race/class restrictions.  It makes no sense when viewed from a gameplay viewpoint.  A good story and writing is valuable, but not when it causes bad game design decisions. 	
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The lack of Open World PVP objectives is a MASSIVE over-sight and one of several reasons why I was not going to go to the PVP server at the merge.
 
I mean, what is there? One whole PVP quest in the entire game? In the Squirg area of Whitevale? And that's it, outside of PVP Contracts.	
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I'm pretty sure the Whitevale squirg quest is recycled in the Defile, where you use a STRAIN squirg to do exactly the same! But at level 50! Woohoo!
Then there's that one 'go shoot the defenseless NPCs of the other faction while you do the event' quests in there and, finally, the extremely exciting 'go pick up objects from wreckage that spawn mobs from the other faction' quest. So I guess that makes it for a grand total of four PvP centric quests in the whole game from the top of my head.	
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Or Carbine could do the smart thing and just abolish the faction split since it's not actually serving any real purpose in the game outside of some flimsy lore of Dominion vs Exiles.  It has zero gameplay value outside of PVP servers where people troll each other and gank.     Stop and really think about it objectively.  There are no world PVP objectives. There is no focus on world PVP from the devs, there never has been.  PVP servers exist only to satisfy those players who want that kind of random combat experience.   Wildstar is not a PVP-centric game. 
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I'd argue that the purpose of the story is to find out the secrets of the Eldan. We found the biggest one (they got eaten by an Eldritch Abomination they themselves created, with help from an anonymous source who might or might not be there.) But then we are a bit short with it, I think, so I'll argue something else:
 
The trailers and the initial parts of the game try to present  the faction conflict as the main focus of the story. But it isn't. By level 25 both sides are doing the same things in the same order for the same people, fighting the same enemies. Wildstar's story isn't about the Exile-Dominion war. It's about Drusera and the Entity. It's, at the end, about saving the universe. The faction war is nothing but a side plot.
			
				
	Edited October 14, 2015 by Ildur	
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After that "lore" dump I've pretty much given up on it.  It absolutely reeks of the hand-wavey BS I despise when a developer is looking for an excuse to not do something.  What's worse is that it's made things even more inconsistent.
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But then what's the purpose of the story/game anyway? The entire game hinges on the fact that Exiles need a new home and Dominion wants to conquer Nexus to find the secrets of the Eldan and add another planet to their grasp.
 
But the lack of PvP questing is probably because...Well, that's a whole 'nother topic my friends.
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And really why is it even a question of "how can story be done"?  Look at how any other game has done it...WoW who has been around since forever, SWTOR who is more into its story then WS is, STO, TSW and so on.  WoW is always pulling the "for the greater good" stuff to explain why horde and alliance are both doing the same dungeons, same raids and sometimes the same quest content.  STO has also dont the "for the greater good" stuff and they actually put in a peace treaty a few months ago so that the Klingons and Feds arent supposed to be at war anymore.  In both these games the zones are laid out in chronological order a bit, more so with STO cause they have stardates in some quest text.  In 2409 when you are level 1 the Feds and Klingons are at war but by the time you hit level 50-60 the story has progressed and the war is over.  That doesnt mean they are going to go back and redo the old quests it just means quests are frozen in time.  WoW was the same way until Cataclysm expac jacked it all up.  If they had left the vanilla zones untouched then it would have made sense to go from the classic zones to TBC to WOTLK then to MoP, and even to WoD (which was just an alternate universe version of TBC/outlands).  But cata messed it up because you are experiencing the cataclysm event from level 1-58, but then you are in outlands, then wotlk, then you are back to dealing with the cataclysm? it just doesnt make sense.  SWTOR despite being F2P has actually been trying really hard to preserve the faction on faction fight when it comes to questing, dungeons and i think raids too.  For a while they went with the "for the greater good" in ROTHC expac but it was still mostly faction specific questing content.  But i think with Oricon and the most recent expacs they are back to faction specific dungeons and faction specific stories. But i think because of this content creation may suffer. They could be sacrificing some of that faction specific leveling/dungeon feel and give people twice the content...what WoW has done in a lot of cases.  Which is fine but how badly will that affect overall content development for both factions?
 
 
Anyways like i said i dont see how anyone can say that making the Exiles and Doms be at peace will make the story not make sense.  Up until that point in the story they will be at war, but once you get to that point then you're at peace.  It would only be messed up if they pull a WoW-Cata and put it somewhere in the middle like at level 15 and then they dont change the rest of the original quests.  If they left a peace treaty storyline at level cap then anyone following story will see the progression of the factions from war to peace.  They may not agree with the factions being at peace but that doesnt mean it cant happen.  And as often as most games do the "lets set aside our differences and fight the greater threat" Wildstar included in the early leveling, why would it not make sense if all content just started doing that as standard? are you all expecting this F2P game to release faction specific instances, raids, quests in the future?  maybe its just me but i would rather have the devs crank out as much content as they can even if it means the same quests/instances/raids for both factions...at least until the game stabilizes and starts to become financially successful to the point where they can splurge on features and content for the game.	
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But we acknowledge that things in our setting can change and develop, by adding new instead of un-writing what came before.
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Pure aestitic is part of it, yeah, even when it comes to the Fleets far more people love the look of the Imperial one versus the Republic. Another factor to consider is that faction choice doesn't really "lock you in" as it were.
 
First, no race is truly faction-locked. Sure, you can't *initially* play as any race you want on both factions, but you can bypass the restriction easily enough by either buying the unlock or simply playing a race to level 50. Bonus points: Doing this not only lets you be that race on any faction, it also completely removes previous class restrictions too. Want to be a Miraluka Sniper named Blinken or a Chiss Sage named Brainysmurf? Wish granted ...assuming someone hasn't already taken the names anyway.
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Restriction of classes to certain races just diminishes player’s choices, hamstrings their wants, and forces an aesthetic upon them. What is fun for one individual will not be for another, and trying to justify why a player must be something because of a very thin lore reeks of a straw man. 
Wildstar is a Scientific-Futuristic MMORPG, and technology is not beholden to one race; especially when each has shown the capability of traveling through space, creating suits that are Predator homages, extending lives through “alchemy,” and wielding psychic phenomenal powers. 
Any lore to justify why a race can’t be a certain class this late in the game would be rather contrived, labored, and forced. Lore is the poor man’s excuse why something is and isn’t. Certainly somethings can and will look silly based on subjective and personal tastes, but nothing is objective about why the Aurin can’t pick up a sword and an arm blaster, why the Chua can’t access their psyche, or why a Mechari who has Avatar like qualities and created by the Eldan can’t use “space magic.” 
Honestly it’s just a lot of bullshit shined into a turd. By and large no lore exists why these races can’t do what another race can that isn’t a blatant write off to justify cutbacks, time constraints, and priorities. 
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by Artigan Schezar	
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If that's true then why does it seem that SWTOR Imperials are more popular then Republic?
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That story can still VERY easily exist without splitting the actual gameplay and players into two uneven groups that can't interact with each other.    
 
Every dominion an exile player fights against is an NPC.  Every exile character a dominion player crushes is an NPC.   At what point does an exile and dominion player EVER fight each other to further the story?     I'll save you the trouble: Never.  Because Wildstar isn't a PVP-centric game. It's not built around fighting over pvp objectives. It's build around PVE raids and dungeons, with a side-order of PVE open area questing. 
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I wasnt talking so much about the races which i know are available to both factions after unlocks.  I know that this topic is talking about race and faction availability.  But i was replying to someone else and how they say people identify with Exiles cause they are rebels and plucky.  But in SWTOR the evil authoritarian Empire seems to be the more popular faction.  I want to know why someone would choose Imperial over Republic.  AND how they could make that choice even before seeing the aesthetics of the fleets, starter planets or capital planets.  What is it that drives people to roll Imperials in SWTOR before even getting to see what a lot of the content looks like? and only seeing what they see on character creation or youtube videos? its just a theory but i think its all those characters that i mentioned like Boba Fett, Maul, Vader.  I think people play Imperial not because they like the way the fleet looks but because they want to *be* Boba Fett...they want to *be* Darth Maul...they want to *be* Vader.  Notice how in Empire Strikes Back Boba Fett doesnt hesitate to speak up to Vader?  "he's no good to me dead".  I mean Vader will force choke Admirals and Generals over the screen like its nothing but here is this bounty hunter saying you better not kill my guy.
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I would happily pay to be a Granok Stalker.
 
Please Carbine make it so!	
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It seems like there are two sides here: those who are OK with the kinds of traditional WoW-esque "lore-based" restrictions that WildStar has, be it race/class or faction, and those who think a game shouldn't restrict the players like that "in this day and age" (or in this kind of setting).
 
I'm in the former camp regarding WildStar, but I also enjoy MMOs that follow the latter philosophy as well. There are different ways to do an MMO. I don't think one way is "wrong" or "better". It seems that the devs wanted to go more with a WoW-type setup, especially considering that many of them came from Blizzard and conceived of WildStar rather early on. Would the game have benefited from taking a cue from other MMOs, like Rift or GW2, as far as race/class and faction restrictions go, maybe. But it just seems wrong to me to ridicule Carbine for going the direction they chose to go with the game and continuing to hound them about every inconsistency.
 
It certainly doesn't help that the way Carbine originally explained the "primary reason" for race/class restrictions being animation time could be construed as that it was the only reason and that more race/class unlocks were coming (although it was also explained, in the same AMA, by a different Carbine employee, that lore was one of the things that went into deciding available race/class combinations).  This is probably what originally set people into two camps - those who thought lore had nothing to do with race/class combinations, and those who thought that they did. And again, there are people who are OK with the idea that the devs worked with animation time and lore to make the race/class combinations and justify the restrictions, and those who think they were just limited by animation time and only developed the lore after the race/class combinations to justify the restrictions.
 
But to be fair, it just seems far more likely that they allotted the animation time they had around the lore, than that they "ran out of time". I mean, why did they only allot time for 3 classes for Granok, when they alloted time to animate 4 for Mechari and 5 for Mordesh? And of the 3 they chose for Granok, why didn't they choose SpellSlinger, Stalker or Esper? That decision had to have been made early on, and it probably came from a lore bible that influenced the entire game. That being said, as I've mentioned before, I'd be all for them opening up more race/class combinations. As we know from games like WoW, changes can be made as the story continues, and I imagine that WildStar will be similar in that regard.
 
Sure there are lore slip-ups like that Mordesh Mesmer in Galeras, and there are unclassed NPCs that use swords and rifles of races that don't allow the classes that use a sword or rifle, and there are trade skills and paths that seem to contradict lore. But it's a game world, and shouldn't be held to the same standards as a literary work. Not everything in the game needs an airtight explanation in order to justify why an Aurin can't be an Engineer. If you hold the developers beholden to the lore on core game features, in order for them to justify the lore behind race/class choices, then you pretty much have to accept that that level of scrutiny could apply to other questions as well, and demanding a lore-based explanation can get rather absurd: What is going on with a character while they're in a loading screen? What is the technology that allows people to pass through other people as if they weren't there? Are pets and mounts pulled from the Void? Why is my underwear welded onto my body? Why can I not sit in some chairs?
 
Although, it would be amusing for the devs to come up with some lore for all that, just for fun. :D
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by MadBlue	
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The sad thing is that you can say that about any theme park MMO. Or hell, just about every game with two warring factions.
 
But sadly, the closest thing you'll ever get to is the merc mode in Ashran in Warlords. Since every other game with two factions has a real nasty tendency to beat you over the head with "OTHER SIDE BAD GRRR"
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This is so hypocritical. You hold their lore up as a justification but then dismiss its inconsistencies even though lore is your defense. If they're gonna restrict classes based on lore, then they better make damn sure they're actually consisten
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Having popular "spokesmen" helps too I'm sure, I was just pointing out that there's other factors that might account for it as not everyone going into the game wants to imitate an existing character from the movies or Expanded Universe.
 
Now that you mention it though, even during character creation there's potential biases being applied. All of the classes, male and female, have different voice actors and you get a sample of how they'll sound during the course of creating them and it's not long after that you'll be hearing more of them on the starter planets. (IE: Soon enough to consider deleting and re-rolling.) That said, a lot of people will argue that Imperial classes got the better VAs overall, and further claim that they have the superior class stories and companions/romance options.
 
As well, there's certain cosmetics that are initially Republic and Imperial only for Zabraks and Cyborgs, so even if someone wanted a Darth Maul lookalike, they would *have* to make them Imperial first because that's the only faction that allows you to use the appropriate red skin and tattoo designs (at least until you get that Zabrak to level 50.) Likewise, it's arguable that Imperial cryborgs have a greater amount of variety between classes compared to Republic ones where each class has more strict options (though it makes Pub cyborgs feel unique from each other compared to Imp ones).
 
Finally, it occurs to me that a lot of the promotional material for SWTOR had a heavy Imperial bias, right down to the cinematic trailers. For those unfamiliar with these:
 
Return
https://youtu.be/mm4JEZudf0c
 
Hope
https://youtu.be/CDuYZ0-NUHw
 
Deceived
https://youtu.be/AMQ51v6Nafo
 
Keep in mind, these were used to help advertise the game before release. "Return" is also the intro cutscene to the whole game, "Hope" is the first thing new Republic players watch, and "Deceived" is what new Imperial players watch. Regardless of one's experience with Star Wars in the past, SWTOR doesn't paint the Republic in a particularly flattering light by making them look like beaten dogs at every turn while Imperials are touted as nearly unstoppable badasses. (That's the Republic's *capital world* being razed in Deceived.) Hell, even without the likes of Vader or Fett, SWTOR its self gives the Imperials plenty of memorable NPCs to hype themselves with (even the new expansion is primarily using Imperial NPCs-turned-companions as a selling point), they even got the better of the two Revan based flashpoints. (And if there's one thing a lot of SWTOR players seem to adore, it's Revan.)
 
In that regards, yeah, I can see why some Dominion folks might be a little disappointed with their faction's PR, to the point I've heard that they gave their arkship a story overhaul because it was *that bad* of a first impression for some people. I mean, did you older folks really have to torture your own NPCs, watch them get turned into mutant monstrosities by that Mondo guy, and gawk at "racist caricatures" of the Exiles? At least tell me that there was really an Aurin saboteur involved the whole time.
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That's the problem though.
If they can tell us why aurin can't be engineers without saying "they're not interested in anything that's not nature" when I can have a nano-suit wearing, drone deploying, motor-unicycle riding, scanbot programming, technologist Aurin, and there's no other reasons they can think up, then they shouldn't freaking cement it into the lorebooks because they're writing themselves into a contradictory mess.  There's nothing wrong with leaving some things to headcanon while they take time to expand things.
 
Edit: Switched persons halfway through :T
 
 
 
 
Also, bonus round!
"If someone with the Soldier path can use all those weapons, why can't they use all those weapons for their class,"
Iirc, you're only using those weapons as a field-test for them.  Don't know how many times you can use that flamethrower before it'll blow up in your face.
 
"how can a character be a Technologist without being a Scientist"
Scientist has a lot of meat-scanning.  You can reverse engineer an Eldan cellphone without knowing how a Kurg poops.
 
"how can I be a master Weaponsmith without even knowing how to use the weapons". 
Easy, you may not have the dexterity to use claws correctly, or the aim for an engineer gun, but damn can you work a hammer and wrench.
 
 
Kind of easy to avoid saying Soldiers are the masters of all weapons and won't stick with one weapon for too long / Technologists will always study each and every new tech they come upon, using any tool  available / The weaponsmith makes sure to personally test out every weapon after it is crafted
 
 
Ok ok ok I can't stop.
 
 
"What is going on with a character while they're in a loading screen?"
Fade-to-black traversal.  Also that's when they do all the pooping we don't see.
 
"What is the technology that allows people to pass through other people as if they weren't there?"
They're actually not passing through other people, the engine is just not able to show the characters leaning away and brushing against each other when they're in such close proximity that they're basically occupying the same space on the floor.
 
"Are pets and mounts pulled from the Void?"
Tiny personal wormholes as your inventory.  That's what's actually in those inventory expansion bags, bigger and bigger batteries to power your own little pocket dimension device!
They're probably hanging out in some protostar warehouse when not in use. '3'
 
"Why is my underwear welded onto my body?"
You're a Mechari.
Dominion indecency laws are strict.
 
"Why can I not sit in some chairs?"
They smell suspicious.
 
Boy I can sure see why carbine likes doing this so much!
 
 
			
				
	Edited October 15, 2015 by Roda	
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That's the problem though.
If they can tell us why aurin can't be engineers without saying "they're not interested in anything that's not nature" when I can have a nano-suit wearing, drone deploying, motor-unicycle riding, scanbot programming, technologist Aurin, and there's no other reasons they can think up, don't freaking cement it into the lorebooks because you're writing yourself into a contradictory mess.  There's nothing wrong with leaving some things to headcanon while you take time to expand things.
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That's the problem though.
If they can tell us why aurin can't be engineers without saying "they're not interested in anything that's not nature" when I can have a nano-suit wearing, drone deploying, motor-unicycle riding, scanbot programming, technologist Aurin, and there's no other reasons they can think up, then they shouldn't freaking cement it into the lorebooks because they're writing themselves into a contradictory mess.  There's nothing wrong with leaving some things to headcanon while they take time to expand things.
 
Edit: Switched persons halfway through :T
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I agree that they really could do a better job at that. They've mentioned in Loremageddon that "Aurin can be uncomfortable around any mechanical beings" and "they are not averse to integrating technology where appropriate and useful". It's not unfeasible that Aurin would use nanosuits to augment their ability to hide (in fact I think that was brought up in one of the Lore Dumps). Also, considering "tree" and "forest" are mentioned 34 times in the Loremageddon entry, the fact that their planet was torn apart by huge machines, and they have a philosophy about connection to the Weave, Engineer seems like it would be an anathema for an Aurin, as they would probably see it as the epitome of cutting yourself off from nature and surrounding yourself with cold dead metal. That's the way I would have phrased it, at any rate. But would that really have made a difference if they did phrase it that way? People would say "but they allowed themselves to be put in cryopods and those are literally cold dead metal". I know I'm not wrong there. :D
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In fact, that's the entire point of having two rivaling factions. To know that there's always a constant threat or competition of who's better, who will get x first, etc.
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 And just so I can get it out of my system:
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ok, much better.
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It seems like there are two sides here: those who are OK with the kinds of traditional WoW-esque "lore-based" restrictions that WildStar has, be it race/class or faction, and those who think a game shouldn't restrict the players like that "in this day and age" (or in this kind of setting).
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Oh, yeah, a flick would be nice, and they could also throw in a datacube or some other lore you could pick up to learn about it in game. I was just thinking of ways they might implement it into a Drop. One of the problems with a themepark MMO is that pretty much everything is going to become outdated once the story moves on. Consider SWTOR, where, depending on your faction, you're essentially time-traveling when you go back to visit Balmorra or Taris. And any pre-Cataclysm expansion in WoW is a visit back in time (as is Cataclysm now, for that matter). You really wind up tying your hands as a developer if you hold yourself to avoiding that in a themepark MMO, though. That being said, if, for example, the Mechari attuning their crystals to psychic/magic energy is something that is considered groundbreaking plotwise, I don't see why it shouldn't be part of the story.
 
 
Well, I can't disagree with that. :D
 
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Here's an example of a class restriction I don't mind:
 
In the Dragon Age world, you can't be a Dwarf Mage. It sucks, but the lore does a really good job of explaining why and there are some cases that are considered significant where an exception could exist (not spoiling that though). In WildStar, the explanations are flimsy at best. I won't go over exactly why as others such as Roda and Elite Seraph did an excellent job of explaining why it doesn't make sense.
 
On another note, I feel like Draken Spellslinger was a terrible choice for a healing class. I think Draken Esper would have been a better choice. The mage archetype fits better with their shamanistic roots in my opinion.	
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			actually if you look at the aurin and granok's class avability list you can see that the aurin are available to the warrior,engineer and medic and not available to the esper,spellslinger and stalker while the aurin are available to the esper,spellslinger and stalker and not available to the warrior,engineer and medic see the pattern it means that the aurin are the opposite of the granok think about it aurin are peaceful while the granok are wralike aurin are organic while the granok are silicon rock people aurin are athletic and shorter than humans (4-feet tall) while the granok are heavy and  taller than humans the aurin live slightly shorter than humans (65-70 years) while the granok can live way longer than humans (800 years)  the aurin joined the exiles a short amount of years before the arrival of nexus shile the granok joined in the early years of the exiles's existance.	
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Here's an example of a class restriction I don't mind:
 
In the Dragon Age world, you can't be a Dwarf Mage. It sucks, but the lore does a really good job of explaining why and there are some cases that are considered significant where an exception could exist (not spoiling that though). In WildStar, the explanations are flimsy at best. I won't go over exactly why as others such as Roda and Elite Seraph did an excellent job of explaining why it doesn't make sense.
 
On another note, I feel like Draken Spellslinger was a terrible choice for a healing class. I think Draken Esper would have been a better choice. The mage archetype fits better with their shamanistic roots in my opinion.
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Fair enough. We're obviously not going to agree on some things, but I do understand and respect your opinion, and you make some very good points that I do agree with, as well.  :)
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It certainly doesn't help that the way Carbine originally explained the "primary reason" for race/class restrictions being animation time could be construed as that it was the only reason and that more race/class unlocks were coming (although it was also explained, in the same AMA, by a different Carbine employee, that lore was one of the things that went into deciding available race/class combinations).  This is probably what originally set people into two camps - those who thought lore had nothing to do with race/class combinations, and those who thought that they did. And again, there are people who are OK with the idea that the devs worked with animation time and lore to make the race/class combinations and justify the restrictions, and those who think they were just limited by animation time and only developed the lore after the race/class combinations to justify the restrictions.
 
But to be fair, it just seems far more likely that they allotted the animation time they had around the lore, than that they "ran out of time". I mean, why did they only allot time for 3 classes for Granok, when they alloted time to animate 4 for Mechari and 5 for Mordesh? And of the 3 they chose for Granok, why didn't they choose SpellSlinger, Stalker or Esper? That decision had to have been made early on, and it probably came from a lore bible that influenced the entire game. That being said, as I've mentioned before, I'd be all for them opening up more race/class combinations. As we know from games like WoW, changes can be made as the story continues, and I imagine that WildStar will be similar in that regard.
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			 Yeh saying this and that cuz of lore is an absolute cop out.. like ive mentioned before multi races that are placed in a holding tank together will quickly lose their culture and blend.. Aurin not wanting to be engineers cuz they dislike technology.. then why the hell are they stalkers and why are they spell slingers (due to carrying pistols and not a bow) clearly both these classes would be out of their league if this was true.. actually id go as far as asking why they even hopped aboard a ship in the first place. Even with their planet on fire. If they where willing to compromise enough to get off their rock im sure they where willing to learn from the other races as well since they would pretty much have no choice but to conform somewhat to their new enviroment.. same as the other folk on the ship. Im sure if an aurin had to put on heavy armor and carry a rifle to save whats left of their people their hesitancies would be minimal. This would go for all the races.. 	
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With all due respect to Madda, gamers are already competitive enough on their own without contriving some arbitrary split in the playerbase.  There's already enough rampant elitism going around without adding more to it. 
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Maybe it has to do with the fact that both engeneers and medics are intellectual professions while the stalker is more physical. But that's besides the point. The developers could open these classes up to Aurin, but should they? Not right now. First fix the god damned balance then think about making catgirls more attractive to play.
 
I honestly don't have a viable solution to fix balance aside dominion catgils which is not guaranteed to work seeing how factions don't have any exclusivity over aestetical elements, such as clothing (thanks to the new holo-warderobe), housing since exiles can build cassian houses, even mounts.
 
That being said, I support what you want, but before getting there there are other things that need fixing,	
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{| class="blockquote"
Maybe it has to do with the fact that both engeneers and medics are intellectual professions while the stalker is more physical.
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Arguably espers are "born" gifted. I'm not certain but anyway, does not really matter. It's not that hard to imagine Aurin Medics and so on. 
 
I suspect that the race/class restrictions were in place to ensure there is some diversity in races. Cause let's face it, if there were no restrictions it wouldn't be the Domninon vs the Exiles it would be the Dominion vs The Aurin. I play on Jabbit and the day before yesterday I was waiting for the bird to spawn ... Scorchwing, I think, and I noticed I was drowing in a sea of catgirls. I knew it was bad, but that was just *cupcake*ed up. I'd post a screenshot but I'm not home right now.
 
In the end it's the developers fault. Like you said, they ignored the Dominion and oversold the Exiles which was a big mistake. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
If I don't get a Chua Warrior, I may melt!
 
 
Seriously though, it's something we've all wanted for awhile. I'll bring it up with the art team again because I think the biggest blocker is not having animation support for some weapon types on some races.
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{| class="blockquote"
Arguably espers are "born" gifted. I'm not certain but anyway, does not really matter. It's not that hard to imagine Aurin Medics and so on. 
 
I suspect that the race/class restrictions were in place to ensure there is some diversity in races. Cause let's face it, if there were no restrictions it wouldn't be the Domninon vs the Exiles it would be the Dominion vs The Aurin. I play on Jabbit and the day before yesterday I was waiting for the bird to spawn ... Scorchwing, I think, and I noticed I was drowing in a sea of catgirls. I knew it was bad, but that was just *cupcake*ed up. I'd post a screenshot but I'm not home right now.
 
In the end it's the developers fault. Like you said, they ignored the Dominion and oversold the Exiles which was a big mistake. 
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I'm not familiar with the "lingo" so keep that in mind. 
 
The fact is that the Aurin are dominating not just the Exiles but the game itself. And while I consider it too late to save the game I think something can still be done for the faction balance. And that may just be evil dominion catgirls, with bat wings instead of ears or demon arrow-tipped tails or something similar exclusive to the dominion catgirls and a healty period of dominion advertising plus faction chnging (free at first) then maybe ... just maybe we'll reach a degree of faction balance that will allow for the changes you wish for.
 
And no, I don't hate catgirls. My hate is reserved for lopp and nothing else.	
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The game doesn't need saving (at least when it comes to races) :T
I see plenty of non-aurin around Thayd and it's very rare I see more than 2 aurin in a dungeon run.
 
This is all anecdotal, of course!
 
 
Also the Aurin already have batwings for ears.	
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 Yeh saying this and that cuz of lore is an absolute cop out..
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{| class="blockquote"
This is all I ask. '3'
among some other things
And I do understand your wants as well.
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{| class="blockquote"
Yeah. No worries. I think it would be a better use of my time to spend it arguing with someone who I think is flat-out wrong, rather than just approaching something from a different angle than I am - especially when we want the same things in the end. :D
 
Ah, the good old epic 75+ page debates from the beta. I wonder what happened to some of those folk
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			I don't care how they introduce it; the game needs Aurriors.  I'd name mine Buster Sward, and play the crap out of it.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I hate to say it but these days Lore is the #1 thing that separates any one MMO from any other MMO.  Everyone here can name, off the tops of their heads, at least five different titles that use the exact same function-archtypes that Wildstar does. 
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Weird...I swore I already replied to this, but my post apparently got devoured by forum chompacabras. 
 
{| class="blockquote"
Well, technically, it's called the "holowardrobe."  It's just holograms of the outfit masking your character's actual gear.
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			:)  Right now I look at the game as having 3 pretty good classes and 3 classes that obvously suck because Aurin can not be them. :P	
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But these concepts aren't mutually exclusive! You CAN have both good lore AND good gameplay.  
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They have to be in some cases.  Regardless of how you twist it, something like a Mechari Esper or any other weird combination wouldn't make sense.
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{| class="blockquote"
They have to be in some cases.  Regardless of how you twist it, something like a Mechari Esper or any other weird combination wouldn't make sense.
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Unless they do some massive retcon so that science in the Wildstar universe isn't a type of magic (or the other way around), they really don't have an excuse for not having Mechari Espers.
 
Well, except 'culture', I guess.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I hate to say it but these days Lore is the #1 thing that separates any one MMO from any other MMO.  Everyone here can name, off the tops of their heads, at least five different titles that use the exact same function-archtypes that Wildstar does.  Warrior = Tank, Medic = Healer, Stalker = Rogue, Esper = Wizard, etc etc.  Nothing has really changed since original D&D came out 1974.  The entire industry is locked in a formula as if on rails and we, the players of these games, are the ones to blame for it because innovation does not sell.  We like to think it does, but in reality, no it does not.  Just look at SWG.  Oh wait, you can't, because it's gone.
 
So if Lore be the one reason to stretch the bounds of the cookie cutter then so be it, says I.  I'm not a fan of every race being nothing more than a cosmetic change without any tangible difference other that the class limits.  Why are Granok and Mechari suseptible to poison and drowning?  Why do Draken not have any melee attacks using claws and tails?  Why don't Chua get a bonus to evasion?  Why, if an Aurin watches "Fern Gully," does it not immediately die of embarassment?  If anything, there is a seriously lack of "because lore" going on.
 
Sadly, I have to blame the "Gimmie" mentality that has infected MMOs over the last coupe of decades.  Every game declared every single player to be "the chosen one" from the first five minutes and then they wonder why 60% of players play alone, never bothering or wanting to interact with anyone else, ever.  Well why should they?  They're the "chosen one," they don't need friends.  Every game has made it so that every class can be played solo from start to max level.  Believe it or not, kids, once upon a time healer classes were in high demand because there wasn't that many healers... and the reason there wasn't that many healers is that could not be played solo.  They had to find a group to work with.  More effort.  Effort - now there's a dirty word, these days.
 
Now that same "gimmie" mentality that has already caused all races to be mostly meaningless due to fear of "min/max" playing (which is really funny because literally everything else in the entire game is built entirely around min/max playing) is saying that we should eliminate all racial class restrictions as well, lore - and logic - be darned.
 
Why not eliminate the faction restrictions, too?  Then the developers can save a lot of time & effort by eliminating all player character animations and replacing all player character models with levitating cardboard boxes with pictures of catgirls on them.  Equality for everyone.  The joy.
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{| class="blockquote"
Unlike other constructs, a Mechari's consciousness is contained within a soul-core of crystalline exanite.
 
Composed of all six primal energies, Exanite is one of the toughest, rarest, and most sought after substances in the galaxy. Pure Exanite, identified by its pure white colour, is a perfect balance of all six primal powers is nigh indestructible and almost impossible to find; only the Eldan have been known to have used this substance with regularity.
Even the slightest imbalance in the elemental composition will seriously degrade the quality of Exanite. Impure crystals will take a tint related to the dominant power (red/orange/yellow for fire, blue for water, and so on).
The substance is most famously used as the cores of Mechari, containing their primal patterns, their processing power, and their thoughts. It is also used in sacred artefacts of the Dominion, such as the sword of Azrion.
 
Ultimately, everything in the WildStar universe is based on some aspect of primal power, which is the foundation of science - and what many call magic. It's an example of Clarke's Law (any sufficiently advance science will appear as magic to the less advanced, or words to that effect). So even Spellslingers, despite the name, are ultimately channeling forms of primal power, as are Espers.
 
 
WHOMP WHOMP.
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Regarding Mechari and spell casting, there's this, as well: 
{| class="blockquote"
Generally, and for reasons the Eldan probably understood but which most others don't, aspects of primal power such as "psionics" (employed by Espers) and the Void (from which Spellslingers draw the primal powers they employ) simply work better for organic beings. And while the Mechari are certainly sentient and possessed of free will, one thing they are not is organic. That's why they can't be Espers or Spellslingers (unless we decide to allow that eventually, in which case I'm sure they'll make a major scientific breakthrough that allows it).
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{| class="blockquote"
Regarding Mechari and spell casting, there's this, as well:
 
 
Are there non-organic spellcasters in the game that contradict it? (I don't know).
 
In any case, to be honest, I think a better reason for Mechari not being Espers and SpellSlingers would have been "When the Eldan created the Mechari, they put a block in to prevent their servitor race from attaining the kind of power that could be used to overthrow their masters. With the Eldan gone, the Mechari have been working to remove that block, without much success ... so far". I think it would be a much easier way to explain why Mechari Espers and SpellSlingers are added to the game by saying "they found a way to remove the block" than "they found a way to cast spells without being organic".
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What is considered "organic" in WS's universe, though?  And what makes it significant when it comes to the mechanics of how espers interact with the "primal powers"?
There is no "carbon" (the thing us earthlings consider all/most organic matter to contain) just "the primal powers be like this."  And since most mechari have a near perfect balance of it in their soul cores, they're not lacking any of them, really.  (and with the thought of silicon-based lifeforms or methane-based lifeforms that question gets even *cupcake*ing broader when you ignore WS's archaic science systems)  If they need primal life:  Exanite; they've got plenty of it.
Is it consciousness?  A psyche?  Emotions?  Mecharis have all that, and from what we've been told, it's not just a simulation of consciousness.  They're described as "alive" for all intents and purposes.
"It's magic! Magical life is what it says it is!" Yes I am going to mention Clarke's 3rd law, because everyone loves using it so much around here, and the mechari were very much created by a scientifically advanced race in this universe, and their entire being, their concept, is not immune to the possibilities this law implies. 
 
With the way exanite, the substance their soul cores are made of, is described, they are essentially made up of not only the same exact stuff any other race is made of, but also the same stuff MAGIC is made of too!  They are probably more directly connected to the primal energies than any aurin matria.  And since the eldan made them ridiculously (primal) power-efficient -so much so that they're functionally immortal and completely wasteless- it wouldn't be too far off to assume that the eldan could figure out how to make a machine channel the same bits of primal energies in similar ways as espers and spellslingers.  Honestly, I could see mechari, with the information we have on how they are made, being the most efficient espers and spellslingers in the galaxy.  "You, my Mechari servants, are the result of all the primal powers working in harmony.  Use this life we have given you to be the puppet masters of our Dominion." -Some eldan, probably.  ...Wait a second.. WHAT IF ALL MECHARI ARE ESPERS AND THAT'S HOW THEY'RE CONTROLLING THE EMPIRE?!?  #WoahDude
 
 
@MadBlue:
I find a killswitch to be a much easier solution to rebellious robots. '3'
Yeh I know you're trying, I just like my woahdude better :P
			
				
	Edited October 16, 2015 by Roda	
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{| class="blockquote"
What is considered "organic" in WS's universe, though?  And what makes it significant when it comes to the mechanics of how espers interact with the "primal powers"?
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{| class="blockquote"
I know the Carbine team is small, and undoubtedly struggling with the new influx of player demand due to F2P, but I thought this was on the list of planned things way back before drop 3?  What happened to it?  I mean, the costume system allows them to wear whatever, so it can't be a modeling issue.  Is it designing the animations or something?   
 
What happened with all race/classes being unlocked at some point? BTW, before someone comes in with the 'lore'  argument: No.   Every time you use lore to explain gameplay flaws, god kills a catgirl. Don't do it. Think of the catgirls!
 
 
 
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Fundamentally the problem of all the lore excuses is they basically boil down entire species, to planets of hats. "Aurin are in touch with nature, but never ever ever wield swords or do stuff with engineering. Never in the history of the species has one ever tried to do it or ever will" which is just... really silly. There's always going to be outliers and sometimes the paradox of playing the outlier is a source of entertainment in itself; the Aurin engineer trying not to spill motor oil on the plants, the Chua warrior with a sword twice their size, the Grannok esper healer, inspiring allies to acts of heroism with his graphic imagination...
 
Games that allow this have certainly never suffered for it; Guild Wars 2 (Wildstar's immediate rival), excels in this creative freedom. Some examples are simply outcasts or outliers (ie a charr mage), other times, the race itself put's it's own spin on the theme; for example a human thief might be literally a thief, but a charr "thief" is technicaly more of an intelligence agent. A human ranger might well serve the goddess to nature, but an asuran ranger might be a wrangler who specialises in animal studies.
 
This point blank "Aurin don't do medicine that way so they can never be medics" is very very flimsy and literal interpretation of game mechanics vs lore.
			
				
	Edited November 3, 2015 by RyuujinZER0	
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{| class="blockquote"
This point blank "Aurin don't do medicine that way so they can never be medics" is very very flimsy and literal interpretation of game mechanics vs lore.
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{| class="blockquote"
(hides his Aurin stalker-scientist).
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How can a race that many players pronounce as "R N" not be able to be medics. 
 
(Get it? RN? Registered nurse? No? Hold on, let me get the whiteboard). 	
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{| class="blockquote"
I hate to say it but these days Lore is the #1 thing that separates any one MMO from any other MMO.  Everyone here can name, off the tops of their heads, at least five different titles that use the exact same function-archtypes that Wildstar does.  Warrior = Tank, Medic = Healer, Stalker = Rogue, Esper = Wizard, etc etc.  Nothing has really changed since original D&D came out 1974.  The entire industry is locked in a formula as if on rails and we, the players of these games, are the ones to blame for it because innovation does not sell.  We like to think it does, but in reality, no it does not.  Just look at SWG.  Oh wait, you can't, because it's gone.
 -snip
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{| class="blockquote"
How can a race that many players pronounce as "R N" not be able to be medics. 
 
(Get it? RN? Registered nurse? No? Hold on, let me get the whiteboard). 
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{| class="blockquote"
Isn't it pronounced "Or-in"  or "Or-en"     
 
Screw it...just pronounce it:  "Catgirl"  
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{| class="blockquote"
Isn't it pronounced "Or-in"  or "Or-en"     
 
Screw it...just pronounce it:  "Catgirl"  
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			I have never understood, or agreed with, racial restrictions for classes; it makes no sense.	
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My husband would be gratefull as well.
I love love love to play aurin. And I love love medic.At first my love for aurin was greater, so I made a spellsinger.Around lvl 26 tought: maybe this is not the class for me.Made an aurin esper, leveled it to 22, tought: no this is not it either.Made a human medic: oo medic is sooo my thing.Leveled it to 28, don't like the animations, the look of the race.Don't like the look for the other races either.I keep hopping between characters, I like this race, but this class, now it's esper, now it's medic so it's the human.My husband he just wants to level on, in stead of having to run the same content 3 times over and over.If it was just for leveling it could maybe do with a human, but it's the whole housing that I love as well.I like it pink, bright, shiny,leafy, green, cute, colourful, with rainbows and unicorns. it has Aurin written all over it.I find it hard to choose :(
			
				
	Edited November 13, 2015 by Fientje	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
BTW, before someone comes in with the 'lore'  argument: No.
 
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Aurins are the main sell point for Exiles
Even with just limited options there are ridiculous number of them
Granok females however are very rare	
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{| class="blockquote"
Aurins are the main sell point for Exiles
Even with just limited options there are ridiculous number of them
Granok females however are very rare
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{| class="blockquote"
But how does a robot use psychic powers?
 
The mind boggles!
 
I mean I'm all for more class/race combos but I literally cannot comprehend how Mechari could utilize the psychic powers that Espers wield.
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			granok stalker plz	
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