102094-carbine-youd-have-alot-more-people-still-playing-if-page-2

Page 1, Page 2
== Content ==
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh and I forgot one, most people haven't encountered it yet and I am not at it either.
 
 
300 Partial Primal Patterns PER player for attunement to the 40man.
 
Needs no elaborating.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's an MMORPG that's been out for a total of less than two months.  They have to fix bugs first, and they have about a year and a half of content in the hopper ready to go.
 
I'm not sure what you expected the game to do in two months beyond fixes and a content drop or two.  This is why I get defensive about Blizzard's development time between patches and expansions.  Effectual development takes time.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
You want a change pushed through with Carbine? Then think like a company and get acting on it.
The more people you bring in, recognize the problem and voice their support for a constructed idea, the more inclined Carbine is to do it, because more paying customers are asking for it.
Right now you, and several others on these boards are a crying, whining, vocal minority compared to the entire player base playing.
Who do you think they are going to listen too? The larger, paying side, or the minor threathening side?
 
 
----
			
I was shocked when I first started my Veteran Dungeon runs and I saw all my guildies avoiding any mob they could and performing complex jump puzzles to skip content. I asked why we didn't just kill the trash mobs and work our way to the bosses and they told me the time limit would be impossible to make if we did that. After learning the criteria for silver and gold, I was confused as to why the secondary objectives were required, but fighting enemies was not. The speed at which we take down a boss does not contribute to the quality of loot, just completing the entire dungeon.
 
The medal system could still be exciting and provide a challenge if dungeons/adventures were segmented into parts. Grade each part with a particular weight and at the end add the sum of the parts to get the overall medal. Split each segment into categories like secondary objectives completed, enemies killed, ally deaths and speed of boss kill. I don't see how skipping makes me more worthy of a gold. 
 
With the Elder gems, I have to agree with the OP because I find myself capped out tuesday afternoon and logging back in only to fiddle with my house or run scheduled runs with my guild. I would love to get some random players together and do adventures (all the options and not just the quick, easy ones) but people are so intent on catching up on their attunement they don't even bother. Perhaps it was the comparison to pen & paper RPGs mentioned in the Adventure DevSpeak or it was the expectations I had with paths/lore, but I thought WildStar was a game of exploration and discovery. It has become for me a game of patient studying because to waste two hours of my guild's time after a single mistake would be devastating.
 
I love the Hardcore focus and the fact the boss fights can be very unforgiving if you don't dodge a telegraph or interupt, but encouraging me to find exploits and shortcuts doesn't add difficulty. I would rather be tested on how well I do in a fight compared to how fast I can grab secondaries, dodge pats or jump over obstacles. Isn't that what skill is supposed to be?	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
The more people you bring in, recognize the problem and voice their support for a constructed idea, the more inclined Carbine is to do it, because more paying customers are asking for it.
Right now you, and several others on these boards are a crying, whining, vocal minority compared to the entire player base playing.
Who do you think they are going to listen too? The larger, paying side, or the minor threathening side?
----
			
I h
 
{| class="blockquote"
I was shocked when I first started my Veteran Dungeon runs and I saw all my guildies avoiding any mob they could and performing complex jump puzzles to skip content. I asked why we didn't just kill the trash mobs and work our way to the bosses and they told me the time limit would be impossible to make if we did that. After learning the criteria for silver and gold, I was confused as to why the secondary objectives were required, but fighting enemies was not. The speed at which we take down a boss does not contribute to the quality of loot, just completing the entire dungeon.
 
The medal system could still be exciting and provide a challenge if dungeons/adventures were segmented into parts. Grade each part with a particular weight and at the end add the sum of the parts to get the overall medal. Split each segment into categories like secondary objectives completed, enemies killed, ally deaths and speed of boss kill. I don't see how skipping makes me more worthy of a gold. 
 
With the Elder gems, I have to agree with the OP because I find myself capped out tuesday afternoon and logging back in only to fiddle with my house or run scheduled runs with my guild. I would love to get some random players together and do adventures (all the options and not just the quick, easy ones) but people are so intent on catching up on their attunement they don't even bother. Perhaps it was the comparison to pen & paper RPGs mentioned in the Adventure DevSpeak or it was the expectations I had with paths/lore, but I thought WildStar was a game of exploration and discovery. It has become for me a game of patience studying because to waste two hours of my guild's time after a single mistake would be devastating.
 
I love the Hardcore focus and the fact the boss fights can be very unforgiving if you don't dodge a telegraph or interupt, but encouraging me to find exploits and shortcuts doesn't add difficulty. I would rather be tested on how well I do in a fight compared to how fast I can grab secondaries, dodge pats or jump over obstacles. Isn't that what skill is supposed to be?
----
			all im going to say is take out the Timer on all the dungeon its dumb people will find exploit and try to skip things to make it faster.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I don't think you completely understand the issues.  First of all, the game's not really dying, but there's a high turnover at the endgame, mostly in the crowd that blitzed to 50 and immediately started attunement.  I wouldn't even consider them the majority of the people who left; they're just a more vocal part of the population.  Most people leave before 50 because the game doesn't accomodate them to the level they're accustomed to.  A lot of people thought they could hack it and they can't.  Most of the people who ran into the attunement problem aren't cancelling subs, they're just not logging in very often because they skipped all the rest of the content, made no friends, and got to the end expecting to PUG through the attunement process.  That's not how it worked out.
 
There's a lot to do in this game, as other people have mentioned.
 
That said, I'm not necessarily saying that you shouldn't be able to "test out" of attunement by mindlessly grinding dungeons if that's your thing; far from it.  I just don't agree with the final thesis.  I don't think the reason people might leave the game are buried completely in the elder gem grind; that happens all the time.  It has to do with a dissonance in expectations between what the game and what people have grown accustomed to in other titles.  Wildstar takes every letter seriously in MMORPG, and serious PVE content requires serious PVE coordination.  If anything, I'd say the biggest problem, even at 50, is that people half-expected to be able to PUG their way through everything and found out that, having skipped all the content to train them in how this game really functions, they can't combine to conquer a veteran dungeon or rated BG.  Pretty much everyone I've enticed into the game (and I've got quite a clan out there) is still playing, but most of them are old WoW, EVE, and EQ hands that know what to expect.  I really don't think the game should change to acccomodate that.
 
Unless you're talking, seriously, about just keeping people logged in on a daily basis, in which case, I don't disagree with you and haven't.  I'm not sure what that helps to Carbine or NCSoft if people aren't logged in 24/7 for a week or two, but it isn't an optimal situation for players.  We're having a conversation about removing timers where I've enumerated a system that might help; I can post it here.  Honestly, though I simply don't think the game's long-term success is going to hinge on the Elder Gem grind being removed, I wouldn't mind elder gems going uncapped for dungeon runs so that dedicated players can blow through it in a few days of dedicated PVE.  If anything, as I said, that doesn't hinder the attunement process from fulfilling its implied purpose.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I was shocked when I first started my Veteran Dungeon runs and I saw all my guildies avoiding any mob they could and performing complex jump puzzles to skip content. I asked why we didn't just kill the trash mobs and work our way to the bosses and they told me the time limit would be impossible to make if we did that. After learning the criteria for silver and gold, I was confused as to why the secondary objectives were required, but fighting enemies was not. The speed at which we take down a boss does not contribute to the quality of loot, just completing the entire dungeon.
 
The medal system could still be exciting and provide a challenge if dungeons/adventures were segmented into parts. Grade each part with a particular weight and at the end add the sum of the parts to get the overall medal. Split each segment into categories like secondary objectives completed, enemies killed, ally deaths and speed of boss kill. I don't see how skipping makes me more worthy of a gold. 
 
With the Elder gems, I have to agree with the OP because I find myself capped out tuesday afternoon and logging back in only to fiddle with my house or run scheduled runs with my guild. I would love to get some random players together and do adventures (all the options and not just the quick, easy ones) but people are so intent on catching up on their attunement they don't even bother. Perhaps it was the comparison to pen & paper RPGs mentioned in the Adventure DevSpeak or it was the expectations I had with paths/lore, but I thought WildStar was a game of exploration and discovery. It has become for me a game of patient studying because to waste two hours of my guild's time after a single mistake would be devastating.
 
I love the Hardcore focus and the fact the boss fights can be very unforgiving if you don't dodge a telegraph or interupt, but encouraging me to find exploits and shortcuts doesn't add difficulty. I would rather be tested on how well I do in a fight compared to how fast I can grab secondaries, dodge pats or jump over obstacles. Isn't that what skill is supposed to be?
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
it's not about what I expected
 
If I see my server getting depopulated and my 3rd guild having the same issue (members becoming inactive) I don't really care about the reason for it - I know I'm getting bored and I can't do stuff I want to do.
 
imo it's too late to just fix the cause - now they have to keep people interested at all cost to prevent them from further leaving or the game will just depopulate and at that point fixing stuff wont do *cupcake*
----
			
This is what happens when games like World of Warcraft make thing so painfully easy and accessible. The stuff that Carbine has done with Wildstar was done well before World of Warcraft and no one complained. People just sucked it up and went through it and actually managed to get to the content. Those that couldn't, enjoyed the content they had access to and still worked to get to that top tier.
 
Problem isn't the game, it's the community that wants that instant gratification. The 20 man attunement process isn't that hard, it just takes people that can actually play through the content. The most "grindy" part of it is the early on rep grind. The rest can be completed quickly with a savvy group of MMO veterans that have the will to get it done and the fortitude to wipe and learn if necessary.
 
I am waiting for the day that people start asking for LOOKING FOR RAID, and PURPLES FOR EVERYONE.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What the... I dont even...
 
Ok first the game might not be dying, I agree, but servers are. We have no idea who left and why, no one has the number, so your arguments pertaining to who left and who is a minority amount to  nothing but pure conjecture.  All we know is what we experience, and that is a massive loss of playerbase in our respective servers and factions.  
 
What we experience is also a total lack of things to do.  You say thats not true, that "There's a lot to do in this game".  What you conveniently forget to mention, is that there is no reason to do any of them.  You can pontificate until the cows come home, it wont change the fact that people dont do things "just cause".  Thats not how it works.  There needs to be a carrot, a motivation to engage in an activity.  Even single player games give you clear objectives and a trail of candies (collectibles, upgrades, exp, etc).  
 
Thats what Wildstar fails to do, specifically because of their broken loot system.  The turnover rate, as you call it, has nothing to do with difficulty, and very little with having to form groups.  The players I see leaving in my guild, circles and friend list are not fresh 50 complaining about how hard things are, they are fully attuned raiders with nothing to do between unrewarding raids. Instance loot is simply not competitive enough with crafted gear due to the triple RNG system drasticaly reducing the probability of obtaining an upgrade to justify spending hours grinding them.  
 
So no, there is not a lot to do in this game.  And thats what needs to be fixed.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I am waiting for the day that people start asking for LOOKING FOR RAID, and PURPLES FOR EVERYONE.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Erm, kind of hilarious when one considers that in this game, many of the blues are actually better overall than the purples, lol. :ph34r: *facepalm*
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Funny how you took that literally and didn't really get what I was trying to say. Instant gratification, must have all good gear now. Although your statement IS correct, there are definitely blues that are better than the purples. I have some of those.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Funny how you took that literally and didn't really get what I was trying to say. Instant gratification, must have all good gear now. Although your statement IS correct, there are definitely blues that are better than the purples. I have some of those.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Oh and I forgot one, most people haven't encountered it yet and I am not at it either.
 
 
300 Partial Primal Patterns PER player for attunement to the 40man.
 
Needs no elaborating.
----
			I know one thing for certain... Server merges have to happen and soon.	
----
			
It is of my opinion that the lack of the so called "carrot" for me, and others, is problematic for many of us, because even for the players that can accept most of the issues highlighted in this thread, many, those like myself find less and less reasons to log on.
 
All I do now are my dailies and run dungeons for silver or practicing for silver. Over and over, I don't want to go and do those dungeons that I have gotten silver on ever again, even for gold. 
 
Is that right? Should I despise content after finishing it? Should I feel tired of the content I am running?  
 
I won't say I'm an expert in psychology or game design, or whatever; all I can say is that I feel that this game asks for a lot and gives back little for the effort, and that's not healthy system for a community to grow in, though possibly the perfect one for its stagnation.	
----
			
Are the DEV's REALLY listening???? I hope this post is a Bell.... because this OP is exactly how my once 160 member, now its only 30 member guild feels!!!!!!!!
 
`	
----
			
PvP aint much better and many are leaving b/c that....poor balance...massive gear gaps and bad match making is some of the problem.
 
Then there is PvP progression which flat out halts once you get the trash blue set which takes roughly a day or so to get it all; only way to get gear after that is do arena which I absolutely loathe or have to find/pay 9 dedictated MLG pros for RBGs to get 1800. The later is impossible since NO one does that, ever, on my server.
 
I cap my prestige and what do I get to buy with it since I am not 1800 of 1500 with no hope of attaining that? Gee, useless gladiator runes that sell for 10 sil a pop! WOO!
 
In that other game, I can grinds BGs and get previous season PvP gears if I work for a month or two. ie. I can play the game how I like and earn rewards.
 
Not so in WS.
 
So yea, I love this game but I really don't like it's BS hardcore elements for all content worth doing. Bascially they are catering to that 5% who will be gone when WoD launches....GG? Thinking the unthinkable atm...resubbing that other game, maybe when I play it I can get some where instead of NOWHERE like here.
 
Blah blah, I whine and ramble but w/e; WS is good game but way to frickin frustrating and unrewarding to play when it really comes right down to it.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Is that right? Should I despise content after finishing it? Should I feel tired of the content I am running? 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sigh,
right dropping the rp for a second
----
			I'd just like them to remove the timers on silver runs. I hate having to rush thru shit, especially when I use video games to relax. Make the dungeons harder if you want to compensate, but making people rush or skip pulls was one of the things that made me despise the WoW community.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carabine is the first development team that is trying to prove that thay can have an awesome MMO without a stable player base ;-)
 
Seriously I have never seen in the history of games a game that brilliant in potential and core design that has been consistently disappointing people with each consecutive patch due to horrible design choices.
 
 
To Carabine:
You guys should really sell the rights to this game to another company that has more resources than you because otherwise its slowly going to sink.
I admire your decision to leave the Blizzard team - it took a lot of guts. But you have proven that even the most brilliant idea won't work without resources (which you don't have)
I disagree with most of Blizzard's design choices, but at least they are consistant - I can't say the same about you. It really hurts to see such a great MMO go to waste.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
PvP aint much better and many are leaving b/c that....poor balance...massive gear gaps and bad match making is some of the problem.
 
Then there is PvP progression which flat out halts once you get the trash blue set which takes roughly a day or so to get it all; only way to get gear after that is do arena which I absolutely loathe or have to find/pay 9 dedictated MLG pros for RBGs to get 1800. The later is impossible since NO one does that, ever, on my server.
 
I cap my prestige and what do I get to buy with it since I am not 1800 of 1500 with no hope of attaining that? Gee, useless gladiator runes that sell for 10 sil a pop! WOO!
 
In that other game, I can grinds BGs and get previous season PvP gears if I work for a month or two. ie. I can play the game how I like and earn rewards.
 
Not so in WS.
 
So yea, I love this game but I really don't like it's BS hardcore elements for all content worth doing. Bascially they are catering to that 5% who will be gone when WoD launches....GG? Thinking the unthinkable atm...resubbing that other game, maybe when I play it I can get some where instead of NOWHERE like here.
 
Blah blah, I whine and ramble but w/e; WS is good game but way to frickin frustrating and unrewarding to play when it really comes right down to it.
----
			
Its funny how people keep denying the facts that the game is dying (SPECIALLY ON EUROPEAN SERVERS) because of gating the PVE content and having shitty PVP content.
 
 
This is the wall of gating WoW had in vanilla / tbc with attunements for PVE
 
 
 
 
 
This wall of gating is carbine.... see the difference?.
 
 
 
 
Im not saying the attunement is hard but the reason people are LEAVING IS CUZ THE POPULATION ON ONE OF THE FACTIONS ARE DEAD on several servers and carbine don't care.
 
 
 
Myself i run a GA raiding guild on a dominion low populated server ( and yet if we move we will kill the whole dominion faction and then what? ).
 
 
Its really frustrating that you people denying the reasons people leave ... the gating is not to keep people seperated its to keep people to subbed and be much of a grindfest/snorefest and so many buggs appear in vet dungs/adv is no fun even if u report them to Timetravel, they will never get fixed cuz carbine doesn't care about anything other then cash. Yes you can argue they are bsns but yet they need to start thinking more about us then money and also hire a new customer support team aswell.
 
 
 
I can see the future of wildstar probly gonna have like probly 10k+ EU players and probly around 30k+ NA players around at the end of this year.
 
 
Another game to put on the MMORPG Failure shelf.
 
 
 
We are all leaving when our sub runs out(we are around 30 people) and es we are going back to WoW.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
We are all leaving when our sub runs out(we are around 30 people) and no we are not going back to WoW.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. If gating in W* is too much for you, try to steer clear of games with real gates. 
 
Best
Naz
----
			I agree 110% with this post	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Its funny how people keep denying the facts that the game is dying (SPECIALLY ON EUROPEAN SERVERS) because of gating the PVE content and having shitty PVP content.
 
 
This is the wall of gating WoW had in vanilla / tbc with attunements for PVE
 
 
 
 
 
This wall of gating is carbine.... see the difference?.
 
 
 
 
Im not saying the attunement is hard but the reason people are LEAVING IS CUZ THE POPULATION ON ONE OF THE FACTIONS ARE DEAD on several servers and carbine don't care.
 
 
 
Myself i run a GA raiding guild on a dominion low populated server ( and yet if we move we will kill the whole dominion faction and then what? ).
 
 
Its really frustrating that you people denying the reasons people leave ... the gating is not to keep people seperated its to keep people to subbed and be much of a grindfest/snorefest and so many buggs appear in vet dungs/adv is no fun even if u report them to Timetravel, they will never get fixed cuz carbine doesn't care about anything other then cash. Yes you can argue they are bsns but yet they need to start thinking more about us then money and also hire a new customer support team aswell.
 
 
 
I can see the future of wildstar probly gonna have like probly 10k+ EU players and probly around 30k+ NA players around at the end of this year.
 
 
Another game to put on the MMORPG Failure shelf.
 
 
 
We are all leaving when our sub runs out(we are around 30 people) and es we are going back to WoW.
----
			
They're listening.  And they're laughing at your salty casual tears. 
The servers are extended gutters and the gutters are full of casuals and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their bads and welfare will foam up about their waists and all the scrubs and facerollers will look up and shout "Nerf it!"... and I'll whisper "no."	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Its not to much for us ... BUT when people are leaving duo to "OVER GATING"  and we cant recruit people thats the problem and carbine dont care about imbalanced pop issues
----
			
You guys do know this game just started right? That means it'll probably take them some time to get stuff fixed and learn how to balance everything.
 
I'm pretty sure the OP is probably used to playing established games like wow. They started the exact same way as Wildstar with many bugs in the game at release. I wasn't there, but from what I understand from some of the older players, C'Thun was bugged in a way that he was literally unbeatable until they hotfixed him.
 
If you're expecting an easy game like wow is today, then go back to playing wow. This isn't the game for you.	
----
			
Pretty spot on from the Op, this is why I didn't renewed, most peoples I knows irl left because of that.
It's game, it's supposed to be fun, not a nightmare of process to play.
I think it's too late now for wildstar.
For those talking about instant gratification bla bla and this not wow bla bla  have fun once you're server will be empty.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pretty spot on from the Op, this is why I didn't renewed, most peoples I knows irl left because of that.
It's game, it's supposed to be fun, not a nightmare of process to play.
I think it's too late now for wildstar.
For those talking about instant gratification bla bla and this not wow bla bla  have fun once you're server will be empty.
----
			
PariahDog as you quoted :
 
They're listening.  And they're laughing at your salty casual tears. 
The servers are extended gutters and the gutters are full of casuals and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their bads and welfare will foam up about their waists and all the scrubs and facerollers will look up and shout "Nerf it!"... and I'll whisper "no." 
 
From the heavens above I will be lol down upon you with this :
 
And then all us Casuals will drown and die out , The " Hardcore Elite Supreme Players" will rejoice and laugh . At headquarters , Carbine and Ncsoft is wondering who going to pay the light bill and pay rent for the month and think where did we go wrong ..
 
In comes the Free to Play mode and all the fun and interaction enjoyment of 12 years old making new account day after day to cuss you because its cool .and gold farmers making accounts and botting to victory !!!	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
You guys do know this game just started right? That means it'll probably take them some time to get stuff fixed and learn how to balance everything.
 
I'm pretty sure the OP is probably used to playing established games like wow. They started the exact same way as Wildstar with many bugs in the game at release. I wasn't there, but from what I understand from some of the older players, C'Thun was bugged in a way that he was literally unbeatable until they hotfixed him.
 
If you're expecting an easy game like wow is today, then go back to playing wow. This isn't the game for you.
----
			
Time Limits and Walls do not have anything to do with only allowing the most skilled players in raids. 
The ability to handle a dungeon or a boss has nothing to do with what is being talked about here. Now if you are suggesting that these walls which slow down progression are needed to weed out weaker players from raiding.  There is one issue.. you are forgetting.. There are players who are extremely skilled but the issue preventing them from progressing is not their lack of skill. It is their lack of time. They have limited time. So they are forced to do these dungeons.. do World bosses on  a limited time basis and they have to rely on others. 
 
So lets say they can't play 60 hours a week as some extremely hardcore players can. Lets say they have like.. 15 hours a week. They have to hope that the dungeon group they pug into is perfect. They have to hope the world boss group they have is perfect. Lets say they are on a pvp realm.. they have to hope that the world boss fight doesn't turn into a huge war that prevents either side from killing that boss.. and oh my the time they had is gone. 
 
Olivar your act is great to a degree. But you need to respect your fellow wildstar players. You remind me of the Best Buy Induction trainers who roleplay with the new Best buy associates about how to sell. But what they Fail to do is actually go over with  the new salespersons are the realities of dealing with people in public. Instead they only present PERFECT scenarios. PERFECT SALES. As in that its impossible that that the associate will meet a customer who will say NO. OR will ask some off the wall question. So when the associate gets to the store and faces this crazy scenario.. they are dumbfounded and have no idea on how to handle it. 
 
The issue is not every person is you. Not ever wildstar player is Olivar. Not every player is in the same guild of Olivar. And is in the same raid team or dungeon team. You can't look at all these posts and just assume in one's mind that the scenarios you experience they have to be the only scenarios possible. 
 
I have run guilds for 10 years as well. I did heroic raiding.. I have seen all kinds of crazy things occur from.. officers losing their mind in a pug raid and both gquitting over nothing.. to watching players lose their minds because one guy had a voice that sounded like a gal.. but he was a man. I have had players who were terrible players.. till the day I actually took a vested interest and realized they were just playing the wrong spec for them.. and I advised them of a different way and boom all of a sudden it was like the clouds parted and the heavens opened to them and boom they were amazing raiders after that. Nothing in mmos is set in stone. Like I said I personally like you I think you can be down right insightful and hilarious but some times you allow your passionate love of this game to short circuit your objective reasoning skills. 	
----
			
Casuals come to hardcore game and cry because it's not casual.
 
 
 
Oh.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Casuals come to hardcore game and cry because it's not casual.
 
 
 
Oh.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
They're listening.  And they're laughing at your salty casual tears.
 
The servers are extended gutters and the gutters are full of casuals and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their bads and welfare will foam up about their waists and all the scrubs and facerollers will look up and shout "Nerf it!"... and I'll whisper "no."
 
----
			So basically everything that is different from WoW, you want them to change and make it exactly like WoW (as if this game wasn't a WoW clone already). Bad idea, better idea, you should play WoW instead...	
----
			No compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Some people have jobs and real lives. Casual doesn't mean you're not good or can't raid with the best of them, just that it's going to take you longer to get there. Well, good luck to you all trying to fill in the gaps in your hardcore rosters when there's no one left to fill them with, because the people who could have made awesome raiders quit on their way there, because of everything mentioned in the OP. Seriously, look at the bigger picture.
 
----
			
I'm in agreement with the others. These walls/time sinks are just lame. It's a very well made game but there's some horrible choices poisoning the enjoyment for many subscribers.
 
BTW, No one thinks 40 main raids is a good idea either.  Even if you do .. the player pool is quickly dwindling. Oh and PVP ... for a "skill" based game, PVP seems pretty gear based imo.
 
Whatever. You want Hardcore Carbine?  I'm hardcore into not caring anymore.  <_<	
----
			
Op, I agree with your first and third points. However, there's nothing wrong with the elder gem cap, I do not want to feel obligated to grind that more than I already do. Gold is a more important game for casuals anyways and getting past the cap matters more. The real problem for me is that the best progression is to get skill and AMP unlocks, and that's just bad design when all those other options don't matter. 
 
In fact, its the whacked out reward structure that screws up a lot of this game right now and fixing that would solve a great number of the design problems. The rune RNG is big problem of course, and that effects gearing up for raids and (I have heard) not getting rewarded for dropping the raid bosses. If running bronze vet dungeons were rewarding then more people would be doing it, and not only would they be getting these rewards they would be getting experience to do the higher medals. There's still this disconnect there. Also, I do think it makes more sense for silver and gold runs to reward casuals or to be a gear catchup for raiders alts than as attunement. That is, rewards on par with early 20 man raid bosses. It makes sense as a reward for people who aren't going to raid and instead perfect the 5 man run into speed farming. It really doesn't make sense as attunement.
 
My suggestion has been to put AMP/skill unlocks as drops from vet dungeon end bosses, or if they need to limit it because of fears about over farming vet dungeons then make a weekly dungeon quest for them. 2 birds, one stone.	
----
			
"Only 'Hardcore' players are allowed to play Wildstar."
 	
----
			
I sort of agree. I think gates should stay in, but the length, maybe toned down a little.  The real gate should be the difficulty of the raids.  In saying that, I need to clarify that in making raid difficulty 'the gate', you can't have insane repair costs or any other tedium or needless gold-sink that just discourages players from learning.  That's one of the aspects I liked about GW2.  There was group content I wiped on time and time again, but in trying different strategies, and modifying my LAS we finally found a way to beat it.  Trying the exact same thing again, we might not have beaten it, not only did we have to strategize, but there was an element of skill involved that we probably couldn't have repeated at will.  Gold sinks and time limits prevent this.  
 
Back to the original topic, my fear is that if players have access to the raids from the get-go, they'll adopt an all or nothing attitude.  They'll see no reason to do dungeons and adventures if raids are available the second they hit 50.  Thus, the gear required to raid should be a sort of a soft gate to get people to play the pre-raid content.  In addition, the elder gem system is good motivation, at least for myself, to play content that might not necessarily be in my best interest for gear, since I will still be progressing my character.  I'm not sure I want the weekly EG cap increased, because I'd like to devote time to two classes, but a small increase probably wouldn't be the end of the world.  Even after the cap is reached, rune sets are expensive, so the extra money gained can be viewed as progression, however, being subject to inflation, and the economy, it really shouldn't be considered.
 
I don't want this game to turn into another GW2, where maximum character potential is reached in no time.  I want to play this game for 5+ years and always have a way to vertically progress, albeit less quickly than sub-50 progression.  	
----
			
Case in point of my earlier post.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Some people have jobs and real lives. Casual doesn't mean you're not good or can't raid with the best of them, just that it's going to take you longer to get there. Well, good luck to you all trying to fill in the gaps in your hardcore rosters when there's no one left to fill them with, because the people who could have made awesome raiders quit on their way there, because of everything mentioned in the OP. Seriously, look at the bigger picture.
 
The problem is they probably don't have much time if the current trends keep up, it all depends on what NCSoft deems as an acceptable profit margin. WildStar needs good numbers NOW. If they want this game to be a success it should have already been, the current situation needs to be fixed or at least patched up while they work on more permanent things. It is very apparent to anyone playing that the game is leaking subscriptions like a flood.
 
One way to attempt to fix this is to tone down all the needless gating. It is not difficult content, it's just hassles people don't feel like bothering with. Which is a problem. People aren't bothering, they're just leaving.
 
You cannot compare WoW to this situation, they had no serious competition for years and were built on already established games. Carbine does not have that luxury, nor do they have a publisher that has their back. And WoW always had and still has a slew of its own problems...it has actually gotten to the point where people were so fed up of it they were jumping aboard WildStar like a welcome escape they've been looking for. Except instead of staying and making this their MMO, so many are leaving because the stupid walls are preventing them from having fun.
 
And Carbine needs to stop the flood if WildStar has any chance of making it.
 
I've been reading through this, some seriously scary shit: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/NCsoft-Reviews-E23242.htm
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Only 'Hardcore' players are allowed to play Wildstar."
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Well obviously that isn't the case. It's more like..
 
Casuals can play Wildstar too but they don't get to complain about it being hardcore when it was advertised at a hardcore game. 
 
It's one of those "you knew what you were getting yourself into" deals.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I have a job and a real life, as does my wife and she also plays..These days my life is the very definition of casual when it comes to my gaming. But.
 
Your whole diatribe is for the support of nerfing the content for the casual playerbase right? and thus moving away from the main spirit of the game. (a challenging, difficult but rewarding experience) I absolutley do not want that! How can you get any satisfaction out of a diluted experience? You make a lot of bold claims about leaking subscriptions and most of the post you made of hyperbole.
 
I would rather the game have lower numbers and a appreciative audience than the god awful beast that is World of Warcraft with their self entilted, press a button for loot playerbase.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Diatribe? Remain civil, please.
 
Let's get one thing straight, I am NOT casual, have been raiding hardcore for many many years now. I am perfectly capable of completing everything in this game, problem is, will there be people to do it with, or will it be a constant struggle to keep the rosters functional?
 
No where am I trying to make an attempt to even complain about game difficulty. But I am seeing the issues the OP so eloquently stated. Difficult mechanics are a game difficulty that require skill to overcome, some arbitrary timers, caps and walls are alas, not.  I do not want the content nerfed, and neither does OP or any of the people that are arguing for it, for that matter.
 
People are quitting en-masse, which is evident to anyone playing and that is going to affect everyone, sooner rather than later. And that's pretty much it, just trying to look for solutions to prevent that from happening and to have a game to play.
 
So please, relax, and try to understand that in order for WildStar to survive, Carbine needs to be presenting some serious numbers to NCSoft each quarter. Perhaps you would rather the game have lower numbers, but NCSoft tend to just shut that kind of projects down.
----
			
Hey all,
 
Since this thread has moved on from feedback about the game to the tried and true "hardcore vs casuals" argument, I'm going to go ahead and lock it up. 	
----