Report 1591

Report #1591
Skillset: Druidry Skill: Pathtwist
 Org: Hartstone Status: Completed Mar 2017
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1.
Problem: In theory, Pathtwist gives the Hartstone druid a way to scatter an
enemy group and control escape from their demesne by pulling victims to a
distant room of the demesne and entangling them. However, the low proc chance
and ability for enemies, or groups of enemies to ENTER PATH means that in
practice this effect is minimal and may in fact assist enemies by increasing
their mobility through the druid's demesne.
[A:13 R: 2] Solution #1: Remove the ENTER PATH syntax for enemies. Pathtwist
 now respects summon resist.
[A: 1 R: 7] Solution #2: Change pathtwist to a demesne wide ability that
 causes moving enemies to have a chance of instead
 moving towards the demesne's center, throwing them
 off balance.
[A: 1 R: 6] Solution #3: Cause the pathtwist's "exit" to have the same chance
 to divert movement out of its room, acting as an
 entrance room to itself for enemies who attempt to
 leave the center. This makes it more difficult to
 ENTER PATH and quickly move back to the original room
 or other entrances around the demesne.
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 3/13 @ 02:48 writes]:
Does "enter path" not consume balance? Most entering of special exits does, so
it would seem to be odd behaviour if that didn't (and it should). I also don't
know of people actually using "enter path" to "increase their mobility in a
demesne," this seems to be a purely theoretical assertion that does not play out
in reality. It functions to split up the group and requires (or should) balance
/ some time to get back together again (so it fulfills its purpose). I'm not
entirely against removing "enter path" but I am against giving Hartstone super-
windwalls (windwalls that function to keep people moving in a certain direction
vs. just back to where they came from). You're asking for a significant buff to
make it harder for people to actually get out of a demesne, more than I feel is
warranted. Druids already have briarwalls, Hartstone definitely don't need
briarwalls combined with this suggestion.
---[Xenthos on 3/13 @ 02:48 writes]:
In short: Pathtwist is already annoying enough to deal with, it definitely
doesn't need to be stronger.
---[Enyalida on 3/13 @ 14:52 writes]:
It does. They do, it's not theoretical and does happen with fair frequency. A
simple scripting solution neuters a lot of pathtwist's strengths in splitting
groups. There are other ways to deal with that problem outside of flat out
preventing ENTER PATH, but this solution is most straightforwards. For instance,
some increased penalty or malus to ENTER PATH from the "exit" side, such as a
failure chance or increased balance loss on return - or even something more
interesting. For instance, give the "exit" room of the pathtwist the same chance
to suck the victim back to that room on exit attempts, as the entry rooms do.
I'll add that as solution 3. Alternatly, if the existing effect is "too
annoying", consider solution 2.
---[Enyalida on 3/13 @ 14:52 writes]:
Solution 2 is not like super-windwalls, it's a lot more like ashfall in that it
causes a chance to move in the wrong direction and won't be a wall skill. Unlike
ashfall, it won't be paired with map and room hiding for increased group
confusion so outside of a balance loss the intruder could easily move instantly
back on track with no trouble unless they hit a briarwall. Speaking of
briarwall, Druids have briarwalls, but that tends to be a deeply double-edged
sword, particular in comparison to abilities like wind or (enhanced) firewalls.
Together, these two are intended to be more generally useful to the druid as
tradeoff for the more niche use of pathtwist, but one that certainly can be
mitigated and worked around.
---[Xenthos on 3/13 @ 21:19 writes]:
Walls that entangle people who walk through them, as well as being moved towards
the demesne center, can't be considered super-windwalls? Have to emphatically
disagree with that. Together, you're going way above and beyond what this skill
should be accomplishing. I can kind of see your solution 3 (with enter path
having a chance to just come back to the same room), but am firmly against Sol2.
And, really, I still don't see any reason why Pathtwist needs an upgrade. It is
quite functional as-is. It's not overpowered, sure, but it's also not "weak".
It serves its purpose and can already be quite a headache to deal with, which
would seem to be the design.
---[Demartel on 3/15 @ 19:55 writes]:
I am ok with removing "Enter Path", Solution 1 only. It should also respect
summon resist if it does not already.
---[Xenthos on 3/15 @ 23:01 writes]:
If you make Sol 1 (remove Enter Path) with Demartel's suggestion of respecting
summon resist, I can support that.
---[Falaeron on 3/15 @ 23:22 writes]:
Solution 1 only. I consider PathTwist to already be stronger than other similar
"disorient" meld effects like AshFall/RainbowClouds/etc.
---[Xenthos on 3/15 @ 23:23 writes]:
In regards to adding summon resist in on 1591, this was Enyalida's response:
"(Envoys): Enyalida of the Hartstone says, "If you do not want to support a
report, don't."" So, as I stated I would agree to it with summon resist, I will
take her advice and not support it.
---[Xenthos on 3/15 @ 23:23 writes]:
PS: Pathtwist's current % is 33%.
---[Malarious on 3/15 @ 23:25 writes]:
Solution 1 stands to put you behind a super mob and have to walk past it. With
briarwalls, treelife, and such effects up this would you into a smob, this is a
nono. Solution 2 seemed reasonable if summon resistance worked, which for some
reason it doesnt. Solution 3 is too powerful. Pathtwist entangles and off
balances on move, force off balance to enter again, if this also put entangled
again 33% of the time......... yeah, no.
---[Malarious on 3/15 @ 23:26 writes]:
I would actually like to ask that summon resist properly function on this forced
movement, since it does not seem to fire right now.
---[Xenthos on 3/15 @ 23:28 writes]:
And now I will have to retract the previous comments as 1591 has changed to
include summon resist. Thank you. I will support sol1 as-is (Remove the ENTER
PATH syntax for enemies. Pathtwist now respects summon resist.)
---[Shuyin on 3/16 @ 01:47 writes]:
Solution 1 only. TBH a 33% chance to proc should have made this summon skill
actually respect summon resistance to begin with, but hey.
---[Lerad on 3/18 @ 02:10 writes]:
Sorry I'm late to this discussion, but I oppose this report, and solution 1 in
particular. Pathtwist is more than strong enough, given how much control the
melder has over where the path-twist is. The problem of "providing mobility"
throughout a melder's demesne is only really valid if the path-twist has a
chance of putting the person moving through it into a more advantages position
(like flanking past the main group to hit from a different direction), but this
is not the case: the melder has FULL CONTROL over where pathtwist starts and
ends. As Malarious said, this includes putting people behind SMOBs, and more
often, straight into a deathtrap. For as long as this level of control remains,
the response of re-entering a pathtwist to return to the main group (at the cost
of balance) MUST also remain. Summon resist or no summon resist. I will support
this if the destination of the path-twist is randomised EACH TIME someone passes
through it and not always the center of the demesne. Otherwise, solution 1 is
far too strong a buff.