112864-how-many-people-are-really-leaving-wildstar

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People are spamming all over the web that Wildstar is loosing subs and there population is dropping more and more as people leave. Is that even true? I have yet to see hard facts that support the argument that says people are leaving all the time. Hardcore players still play, I'm still playing, and my friends are still playing. A lot of people that review games left and stopped playing because they did there review and were done. Several groups that were all for the hype of a new MMO left after the firs and second month because they didn't like the art style, slowness of initial questing, the bugs/optimization were too much to deal with or they couldn't play the game due to lag/system requirements.
 
 Other then that it's not too bad overall from my perspective the game plays really well combat wise. Mega servers around the corner. We have difficult raids like we wanted. Crafting is not a joke like it was in WOW. There is a end game and another raid coming around for endgame in the future. We have housing still to play around with. There is going to be a new zone coming as well. We get weekly updates on the state of the game. I haven't seen a Botter for a month+. 
 
 So is this game really doing that bad? We see them actively working to fix the game as best as they can, they got new content there getting ready, and it has a great system for relaying information to us about upcoming changes. If you look back to SWTOR and LOTRO both had problems but there good points were enough to help them keep going even if SWTOR has to go FTP due to not having a End Game. There numbers dwindled a way more then a bit but ended up being enough to support them even though Some changes were made.
 
 I paid for a year sub becouse I knew this is what I wanted an was willing to spend my money to get a great deal and support them long term as well. So again i ask you is all this negative hype going around really accurate or just people being morons. Is it possible Wildstar is doing ok and there biggest problems are bugs/optimization and bad press from lots of people who just didn't like it or didn't give it a shot.
 
Tell me what you think!	
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People are spamming all over the web that Wildstar is loosing subs and there population is dropping more and more as people leave. Is that even true? I have yet to see hard facts that support the argument that says people are leaving all the time. Hardcore players still play, I'm still playing, and my friends are still playing. A lot of people that review games left and stopped playing because they did there review and were done. Several groups that were all for the hype of a new MMO left after the firs and second month because they didn't like the art style, slowness of initial questing, the bugs/optimization were too much to deal with or they couldn't play the game due to lag/system requirements.
 
Other then that it's not too bad overall from my perspective the game plays really well combat wise. Mega servers around the corner. We have difficult raids like we wanted. Crafting is not a joke like it was in WOW. There is a end game and another raid coming around for endgame in the future. We have housing still to play around with. There is going to be a new zone coming as well. We get weekly updates on the state of the game. I haven't seen a Botter for a month+.
 
So is this game really doing that bad? We see them actively working to fix the game as best as they can, they got new content there getting ready, and it has a great system for relaying information to us about upcoming changes. If you look back to SWTOR and LOTRO both had problems but there good points were enough to help them keep going even if SWTOR has to go FTP due to not having a End Game. There numbers dwindled a way more then a bit but ended up being enough to support them even though Some changes were made.
 
I paid for a year sub becouse I knew this is what I wanted an was willing to spend my money to get a great deal and support them long term as well. So again i ask you is all this negative hype going around really accurate or just people being morons. Is it possible Wildstar is doing ok and there biggest problems are bugs/optimization and bad press from lots of people who just didn't like it or didn't give it a shot.
 
Tell me what you think!
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Tell me what you think!         
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you just answered your own question. servers are so dead they have to switch to megaserver to make it feel populated, but no youre right no one left
 
my bad if that came off harsh but when i come back every 3 weeks because of "hey we got new promises and big shit happening come check th is crap out!" news articles, and
i fall for it and come back, and the SAME bugs that made me leave in the first place are still there i get bitter. i too bought a long term sub, 6 months, and regret it everyday.
i should stop typing ill admit im peeved right now after logging in and seeing same shit bugs that drove me away
point is if im giving up on a 6 month sub i basically wasted 80 bucks on, all those people on credd or short term subs are probably going to say forget it too	
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It's a bit of both.
 
I find myself sometimes just not interested.
And then somedays I have a great time!
 
Wildstar is a great game, and things get worked on really really well. 
 
Just that some decisions are not so great, and dont work really well. But honestly they are so quick to make them right again. 
 
All in all i definitely believe the game will flourish and become really good once some key changes get put in place.
 
I know the attunement changes and SKill/amp changes will make the game better and attract more players.
 
What ALOT of players left, left for PVP reasons so once they get ironed out it will be better as well.	
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The game is going bad, too many known bugs and class balancing is just odd.
Just wait and hope the best, unfortunatly we don't have numbers but I hope someone will tell them to us (not really).	
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Personally I've noticed the Battleground queues getting quite a bit longer, so at least some of the PvP crowd aren't joking around when they say they quit (due to rating reset, gear rebalance, or any of the 25 other bad PvP changes)
 
For PvE, the decline on my server is not yet noticeable, though a rather large group of members picked up D3 again after the new season and is online a bit less.
 
Though if the class balance changes as they are on the PTR go live, I foresee lots of stalkers quit. For more info visit the stalker subforum :P	
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Chua think Humans asking too much in most cases. Wildstar offer challenges and make things harder compared to other games.
WildStar also make mistakes, but as pointed out fixes promised and coming on steady pace.
Maybe not fast enough for certain Humans, too fast for others.
Chua think is pointless cause can never please all Humans.
 
Chua having blast with game. Always dungeon to run, roleplay or just sillyness in guild chat.
Chua still working on housing plot too, building new science lab.
Many ideas, not enough time for Chua to do.
 
Doom and Gloom is getting depressing.
Chua not understand point anyway. Some just keep posting over and over.
Instead of helping are just making situation worse.	
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The answer is, all of them.
 
All of the people are leaving.
 
In fact, we're not even here right now. These replies are automated to make you (the last surviving player) think everything is fine.
 
Those people you see in game? Fake accounts with bot software to trick you.
 
True story.
 	
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The answer is, all of them.
 
All of the people are leaving.
 
In fact, we're not even here right now. These replies are automated to make you (the last surviving player) think everything is fine.
 
Those people you see in game? Fake accounts with bot software to trick you.
 
True story.
 
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hey Chua! nice to see you again
 
i agree that ranting and raving puts people off the game that come to check out the forums before buying
but heres the thing, there ARE legit reasons to stay away, it would be a lie to say everything is fine and dandy
 
i like the idea of the game, but the implementation was poor.It just everytime i get hyped to play i log on and something doesnt work its not MY fault im frustrated.
and its not MY job to save the game by touting it with praise all over the internet.
If i logged in tomorrow and my datachron worked and engineer bought graduated kindergarden, i would sing a different tune.
YES those are my two major complaints, but its not the bugs themselves, its the fact ive reported them over and over for months and nothings been done.
i understand there are bigger issues at the moment, but if small things keep getting glossed over, eventually it will snowball.
Bottom line, literally last night (using literally properly here hehe) my friend asked if he should try wildstar coz it looked cool
and he needed a break from wow, and i said no, dont bother. I love the game, but i will not recommend or lie to people and say its a GREAT game.	
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TexArcana, please report to Levin Bay.
New players have been sighted and require a false sense of active server populations
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TexArcana, please report to Levin Bay.
New players have been sighted and require a false sense of active server populations
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hey Chua! nice to see you again
 
i agree that ranting and raving puts people off the game that come to check out the forums before buying
but heres the thing, there ARE legit reasons to stay away, it would be a lie to say everything is fine and dandy
 
i like the idea of the game, but the implementation was poor.It just everytime i get hyped to play i log on and something doesnt work its not MY fault im frustrated.
and its not MY job to save the game by touting it with praise all over the internet.
If i logged in tomorrow and my datachron worked and engineer bought graduated kindergarden, i would sing a different tune.
YES those are my two major complaints, but its not the bugs themselves, its the fact ive reported them over and over for months and nothings been done.
i understand there are bigger issues at the moment, but if small things keep getting glossed over, eventually it will snowball.
Bottom line, literally last night (using literally properly here hehe) my friend asked if he should try wildstar coz it looked cool
and he needed a break from wow, and i said no, dont bother. I love the game, but i will not recommend or lie to people and say its a GREAT game.
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an example for me , as i dont speak for anyone but myself is my bugged datachron and engineer bot AI
engineer bot AI has always been frustrating but im getting used to it so lets gloss over that
 
Bugged datachron. My bug is it appears behind my tracked quests. So to read it, i have to untrack quests, read, put quests back and continue.
As a soldier, i have to do this every 2 or 3 minutes, because i cant click to show direction with quest tracker on top
Small bug, VERY annoying. My point?
Ive reported it 3 or 4 times and through 5 or 6 patch days it has gone ignored.
Its come to the point i use it as a litmus test so to speak. I dont even read up on patch notes/news announcments anymore. I log in, hit datachron, still bugged, log out.
Why? becuase chances are if this small thing is still bugged, i have no hope for bigger things, or long term plans of the game.
Maybe its flawed thinking, but if i come back because of a HYPE TRAIN article, and the VERY first thing i try to do is bugged, it KILLS it for me.
Its kinda become a joke now, i log in every 3 or 4 days, click it, still bugged! laugh and then cry.	
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an example for me , as i dont speak for anyone but myself is my bugged datachron and engineer bot AI
engineer bot AI has always been frustrating but im getting used to it so lets gloss over that
 
Bugged datachron. My bug is it appears behind my tracked quests. So to read it, i have to untrack quests, read, put quests back and continue.
As a soldier, i have to do this every 2 or 3 minutes, because i cant click to show direction with quest tracker on top
Small bug, VERY annoying. My point?
Ive reported it 3 or 4 times and through 5 or 6 patch days it has gone ignored.
Its come to the point i use it as a litmus test so to speak. I dont even read up on patch notes/news announcments anymore. I log in, hit datachron, still bugged, log out.
Why? becuase chances are if this small thing is still bugged, i have no hope for bigger things, or long term plans of the game.
Maybe its flawed thinking, but if i come back because of a HYPE TRAIN article, and the VERY first thing i try to do is bugged, it KILLS it for me.
Its kinda become a joke now, i log in every 3 or 4 days, click it, still bugged! laugh and then cry.
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I am not gonna leave this game - unless it goes free to play. That is one of the reasons why people keep spamming - cheapskates. They have no idea how great this game is, or even worse maybe they do. I also like the effort of developers too. Honestly, I don't think that there is better title on the market and I have played quite a lot of games.
 
But yes. A lot of MMO tourists have left. But in no way it means that the game is bad. I agree with Chua. Players should be more realistic.
 
Disclaimer: I am not saying that the game is perfect. There are quite a lot of annoying bugs. There are some problems with balance too. But the overall experience is enjoyable enough.	
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 A lot of MMO tourists have left. 
 
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It doesn't really matter how many people have left (it's a looooot of people, no doubt about that).
 
It matters how many people they can get back with incoming patches.
So let's try to focus on the glorious (?) future of Wildstar, not on mistakes that have been made in the past.
Their consequences cannot be erased, only undone.	
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			 This game has its share of frustrating elements and their not counter balanced with convenient features... so the backlash towards the game isn't that surprising.	
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Chua think Humans asking too much in most cases. Wildstar offer challenges and make things harder compared to other games.
WildStar also make mistakes, but as pointed out fixes promised and coming on steady pace.
Maybe not fast enough for certain Humans, too fast for others.
Chua think is pointless cause can never please all Humans.
 
Chua having blast with game. Always dungeon to run, roleplay or just sillyness in guild chat.
Chua still working on housing plot too, building new science lab.
Many ideas, not enough time for Chua to do.
 
Doom and Gloom is getting depressing.
Chua not understand point anyway. Some just keep posting over and over.
Instead of helping are just making situation worse.
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You make me sorry I didn't roll Dom. Agreed a hundred times over, Olivar! Phenomenal game! It's not dead, it's 3 months old... the point where EVERY MMO population has a sharp decline. And, unfortunately, the MMO community loves to whine about every tiny change that comes their way, so there's a lot of negativity on the surface, but that just comes with playing with people who rage over their mommy not slicing a banana into their cereal that morning. Seems these twits expect a bug-free, perfectly polished game right at launch... never gonna happen; never has happened. I digress, the population has been declining but is beginning to stabilize. Very much worth sticking around for.
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Heh. Well. I *want to believe* the population is stabilizing ... but really I think it's just because the free transfers have started taking hold, the populated servers are finally feeling alive again.
 
Even poor little Evindra had people everywhere this weekend. The mid-leveling zones even had people. I saw banter in Galeras, groups forming in Whitevale and even saw others roaming around Farside - and it's been a long time since I'd seen that.
 
That said, I'm not chalking it up to "stable population" so much as "transient population" as those of us who've stuck around have started consolidating.	
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Heh. Well. I *want to believe* the population is stabilizing ... but really I think it's just because the free transfers have started taking hold, the populated servers are finally feeling alive again.
 
Even poor little Evindra had people everywhere this weekend. The mid-leveling zones even had people. I saw banter in Galeras, groups forming in Whitevale and even saw others roaming around Farside - and it's been a long time since I'd seen that.
 
That said, I'm not chalking it up to "stable population" so much as "transient population" as those of us who've stuck around have started consolidating.
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My wife and I have left. We're both still active for another month of game time, but I don't foresee us logging in.
 
Reasons:
 
> Renewed focus on WoW before the expansion launches (more regularly raiding, and also occasionally playing our beta chars)
> Friends have stopped playing or did not catch on after their trial account
> We have less interest in WildStar overall
> Endgame remains an uphill climb we simply do not have time for
> Already well behind the curve in terms of content drops (though the recent delay has allowed for a catch-up)
 
Thankfully many of the bugs we encountered at launch are being stomped out. And I'm glad to see they're going the route of server consolidation, it is the best choice for the game going forward.	
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That said, I'm not chalking it up to "stable population" so much as "transient population" as those of us who've stuck around have started consolidating.
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I have the answer!
 
AMBIGUOUS RANDOMLY GENERATED NUMBER OF DOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!
 
How'd you get that number?  Just like every other 'fact' on Facebook. I read it from Joe LiveswithMom and his YouTube Opinion.
 
Oh wait.. I meant to type.. "Gee.  This topic again?"	
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The cities grow
The rivers flow
Where you are, I'll never know
But I'm still here	
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Chua i thank you for the work around, after trying it in game i see it does work.
However my litmus test point still remains, whether there is a work around or not does not change the fact that within 30 seconds of logging into the game everytime i log in i am presented
with a bug. I know it seems small and maybe its just me, but its kind of like walking into a restaurant , and seeing flies on the window. Sure theres no proof its in the kitchen, or maybe they left a door open too long. But that first impression goes a long way.	
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That's exactly what it is. Hopefully, they can build on that base with "free months" for returning subscribers and some advertising. Have you seen advertising?
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Probably not until they get this massive drop in.  No use having a huge publicity drive, get people into the game, and have them go, "Uh... so we're all waiting for improvements?"
 
Generally, the people you grab with advertising are looking for immediate gratification.
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Chua i thank you for the work around, after trying it in game i see it does work.
However my litmus test point still remains, whether there is a work around or not does not change the fact that within 30 seconds of logging into the game everytime i log in i am presented with a bug. I know it seems small and maybe its just me, but its kind of like walking into a restaurant , and seeing flies on the window. Sure theres no proof its in the kitchen, or maybe they left a door open too long. But that first impression goes a long way.
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A new MMO with bugs!? Whodathunkit? GL finding any other MMO that doesn't have this issue in their first year.
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A new MMO with bugs!? Whodathunkit? GL finding any other MMO that doesn't have this issue in their first year.
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True, but I would think any newcomers would have at least a month of content to keep them busy until then. Plus, they can do Warplots. Have you seen Warplots?
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"If it's not perfect at launch, it's crap. Bugs are unacceptable in any form. Only perfection is expected or accepted. Anything less means I'm going to back to WoW."
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heh, im 29 years old, and dont own a car or phone. what i DO own is thousands of dollar of games and gaming equiptment, and the fact is that in todays market, if you are not close to perfect within 3 months, you are going to feel the hurt
 
you can argue it all you want, but its a fact, there are too many options out there. im not saying thats right, or makes sense, but its the truth nontheless	
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heh, im 29 years old, and dont own a car or phone. what i DO own is thousands of dollar of games and gaming equiptment, and the fact is that in todays market, if you are not close to perfect within 3 months, you are going to feel the hurt
 
you can argue it all you want, but its a fact, there are too many options out there. im not saying thats right, or makes sense, but its the truth nontheless
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heh, im 29 years old, and dont own a car or phone. what i DO own is thousands of dollar of games and gaming equiptment, and the fact is that in todays market, if you are not close to perfect within 3 months, you are going to feel the hurt
 
you can argue it all you want, but its a fact, there are too many options out there. im not saying thats right, or makes sense, but its the truth nontheless
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i honestly dont see your point, yea my spelling sucks my bad
its 3 months in, the game was plagued with bugs, and now theres a large percentage of the player base gone.
they are merging servers (megaserver tech same deal) so my evidence isnt made up of thin air and stereotypes
 
but please do tell me what game came out that had a ton of bugs in the last 5 years that is still doing well today. oh and FFARR doesnt count as they basically started over
 
again im not saying this MAKES SENSE or is RIGHT, it doesnt honestly, but it doesnt change the fact it happens	
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i honestly dont see your point, yea my spelling sucks my bad
its 3 months in, the game was plagued with bugs, and now theres a large percentage of the player base gone.
they are merging servers (megaserver tech same deal) so my evidence isnt made up of thin air and stereotypes
 
but please do tell me what game came out that had a ton of bugs in the last 5 years that is still doing well today. oh and FFARR doesnt count as they basically started over
 
again im not saying this MAKES SENSE or is RIGHT, it doesnt honestly, but it doesnt change the fact it happens
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Hey guys, 
 
Discussion and conversation is great - so long as it remains constructive, polite, and courteous. Please try to leave the personal attacks at the door. Obviously population and bugs have been popular topics the past few months, but we do already have threads regarding these things on the forums. We have this dev note here regarding bugs and updates, and the megaserver thread here. I understand that these things may not be coming fast enough for some players, but we appreciate your patience while we continue to make WildStar a great place. 
 
- Team WildStar 	
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			wow came out 10 years ago not in the last 5 years, and NON of their expansion packs had as many bugs at launch (thats the only thing i can think to compare, theyve ahd 10 years to perfect its apple and oranges) as any other game in the last 5 years (which i clearly stated in my previous post)	
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did you read anything? ive reported it numerous times in 3 months (no longer a new MMO) its the principle not the detail.
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wow came out 10 years ago not in the last 5 years, and NON of their expansion packs had as many bugs at launch (thats the only thing i can think to compare, theyve ahd 10 years to perfect its apple and oranges) as any other game in the last 5 years (which i clearly stated in my previous post)
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If we're talking about bugs in an MMO, Archeage is coming out in 8 days and it literally kills people's computers. Top end gaming rigs will freeze up and die under the cruel tutelage of Pai M-- Archeage. Aside from that the graphics are really neat.
 
But yeah. 8 days from launch, still killing computers.	
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I'll leave this here you decide:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2w1tcfa.jpg
Just, Yesterday - I rolls deep!
 
Embed image doesn't work now? lol...	
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Hey guys, 
 
Discussion and conversation is great - so long as it remains constructive, polite, and courteous. Please try to leave the personal attacks at the door. Obviously population and bugs have been popular topics the past few months, but we do already have threads regarding these things on the forums. We have this dev note here regarding bugs and updates, and the megaserver thread here. I understand that these things may not be coming fast enough for some players, but we appreciate your patience while we continue to make WildStar a great place. 
 
- Team WildStar 
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I'll leave this here you decide:
http://tinypic.com/r/2w1tcfa/8
Just, Yesterday.
 
Embed image doesn't work now? lol...
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Should work just fine - unless you're using IE, that browser has issues with our forum system. with anything related to the internet, a computer or user-friendly operations.
 
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Thread doesn't really work as OP asks for how many people are leaving, and most who wanted to leave, have already left lol
 
Those who stay, be they forum warriors on CREDD sub, are still around in some capacity :P	
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			nothing will ever be perfect... you can't ever make everyone happy... what Carbine needs to not do is change their vision for this game to appease the whiners...I certainly hope this game survives as I've already invested a lot of money into it...and yeah... there are a lot of angry little people out there who have nothing better to do with their lives than try to sabotage and destroy anything they believe has ever wronged them... there is a certain other game I had to flat out stop visiting their forums several years ago because of the same mentality... 	
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Thread doesn't really work as OP asks for how many people are leaving, and most who wanted to leave, have already left lol
 
Those who stay, be they forum warriors on CREDD sub, are still around in some capacity :P
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I'm leaving in Oct. 
This is my last month of me paying the sub. I will either buy a CREDD or 2, or just let my account go on stand-by.	
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i honestly dont see your point, yea my spelling sucks my bad
its 3 months in, the game was plagued with bugs, and now theres a large percentage of the player base gone.
they are merging servers (megaserver tech same deal) so my evidence isnt made up of thin air and stereotypes
 
but please do tell me what game came out that had a ton of bugs in the last 5 years that is still doing well today. oh and FFARR doesnt count as they basically started over
 
again im not saying this MAKES SENSE or is RIGHT, it doesnt honestly, but it doesnt change the fact it happens
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People are spamming all over the web that Wildstar is loosing subs and there population is dropping more and more as people leave. Is that even true? I have yet to see hard facts
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Thread doesn't really work as OP asks for how many people are leaving, and most who wanted to leave, have already left lol
 
Those who stay, be they forum warriors on CREDD sub, are still around in some capacity :P
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			I'll be staying for a while yet. I enjoy the game even if I play it solo. I'll only stop playing when I don't have enough money to pay for my sub.	
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Forum Warriors.  Oh man.. add that to the White Knights and we're gonna have a MMO Crusade soon!  
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Hard facts:
 
1. The devs are making many changes to the game design. This says that they are not happy with the player retention, because if they were, they would be doing more of the same instead of changing things around drastically.  After all, you don't fix what isn't broken, right?
 
2. Server merges ("megaservers")  are widely perceived in the industry as a sign of failure for an MMO. Whether that is absolutely true or not is a bit of an open question, but most MMO development teams would rather cut off a limb (figuratively speaking) than do a server merge.  Nevertheless, Carbine is doing one.  That means they were concerned enough about the declining player population to take a large PR hit.  They are also offering free transfers, which is a very good thing for the players, but a bad thing for the company: they are giving away services they had been charging for.  This says they would rather take the hit from the direct loss of revenue than risk losing any more players. If they had plenty of players, they would never do this.  
 
3.  Reports like this one from all over the gamesphere: http://remnants-gaming.com/2014/08/29/wildstar/   Large guilds quitting the game entirely due to lack of the ability to maintain a raid roster, or having to combine rosters (which guilds hate to do) in order to have enough people to raid.  Most casual guilds are even deader.  
 
4. Wildstar message boards around the gamesphere are going quiet and dead.  The subreddit population has plunged, and even these official forums are seeing way less traffic than they used to.  All the other game sites have essentially no Wildstar discussion at all. Just a growing silence.  People like to talk about stuff they are enjoying. Very few people are talking about Wildstar.  
 
5. Before the free transfers, low populations showing on all servers in all geographic regions, even at peak play times. 
 
6. We have some hard financial data from NCSoft regarding Wildstar. You have to back-figure from the revenue using some assumptions, but even the most generous assumptions show that initial sales were average at best, and the revenue forecasts going into the future look dismal. ($9 million for fourth quarter 2014? Around $3 million a month projected? That's a lot for you and me but not much at all for an MMO of this size.)  Low projected revenue means not many people playing, period.  
 
7. Anecdotal evidence regarding the game's very low popularity on sites such as Twitch, Raptr, and Xfire.  This data needs to be taken with a large grain of salt as there are lots of reasons why the numbers on these sites wouldn't be true representations of the game's overall player base, but still: Wildstar has dropped almost entirely off the radar on all three sites.
 
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Obviously not everyone has left the game. There may be as many as 100k players still active, which is a lot of people in real-life terms. It's just probably not enough to keep the game going long-term. There are definitely more "active" accounts than actual people playing -- many folks are waiting out the upcoming changes using CREDD, and some paid for months of game time in advance but aren't using it. But the revenue forecast says that those "active" accounts are, at the moment, expected to expire rather than reactivate; the players are not expected to return unless changes are made, which is why changes are being made. 
 
If by "hard facts" you mean you want NCSoft to reveal actual sub numbers, that's not going to happen. The only thing they have to legally disclose is revenue, and to disclose anything more if the numbers aren't good would be stupid.  (If the numbers were good, they'd be trumpeting them -- another sign that they aren't good.)  But if you go to the water hole and you see tiger tracks, and orange and black hairs shed all over, and a dead half-eaten antelope, it's a good bet there's a tiger around even if you can't see him right this second.  
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The answer is, all of them.
 
All of the people are leaving.
 
In fact, we're not even here right now. These replies are automated to make you (the last surviving player) think everything is fine.
 
Those people you see in game? Fake accounts with bot software to trick you.
 
True story.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
If we're talking about bugs in an MMO, Archeage is coming out in 8 days and it literally kills people's computers. Top end gaming rigs will freeze up and die under the cruel tutelage of Pai M-- Archeage. Aside from that the graphics are really neat.
 
But yeah. 8 days from launch, still killing computers.
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{| class="blockquote"
You just don't understand, Tek!
 
This is 2014. Everything is perfect in 2014. Software bugs are sooooo last decade. See, now people have choices! CHOICES!!!!!!
 
CHOICES!!!!!
 
If it's less than perfect, today's youth doesn't have to accept it. They only accept perfection. You can tell this by their spelling and social skills, being as flawless as they are.
 
Read through some of the other threads about this. You'll see. Every time we have one, some yahoo pipes in with that exact phrasing.
 
"If it's not perfect at launch, it's crap. Bugs are unacceptable in any form. Only perfection is expected or accepted. Anything less means I'm going to back to WoW."
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During my morning coffee and site jumping, this article was the first thing I saw, not very optimistic. 
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/09/08/the-nexus-telegraph-wildstar-aint-doing-so-good/  if Carbine/NCsoft don't want to put forth good marketing...the internet will.
 
Friends going over to Destiny, memory leak issues, no PvE to PvP server transfers, & it's getting a bit discouraging.  Im going to hang in there til megaservers and see what happens I suppose.
 
not exactly happy w/the crews in charge of servers, optimization, authenticator process, & launch...it's like they only play mmo's just to say they have actual game time under their belt.	
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Hey everyone,
 
Friendly reminder to keep this thread constructive, on-topic, and free from personal attacks. Thanks!~Team WildStar	
----
			Okay.  I'm back.  I convened a meeting with the true experts of internet statistics.  We met in a Swedish resort to discuss this important issue.  I now have the official number of how many people have left Wildstar.  5.  5 people have left Wildstar.  Everyone else is kidnapped, abducted by aliens or in a coma.  I'm not at liberty to divulge my sources, but less just say it involved 2 things that have 20 sides and a copy of a book named Madlibs.	
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Well i have 2x Level 50 characters
 
I remove 10-15 (different) people a week from my Neighbor list for not logging in for 1week+
 
 
As of this weekend it seems. My account is now only active to log on 1-2 days a week.
These 1-2 days consist of the following.
 
Repair 2 Mining Plots
Sell Gala Ore on AH thing.
Sell Rest to random Vendor
Check CREDD Price, if enough Plat, purchase CREDD Log off., If not enough gold for CREDD, Log off.
 
I currently have 7 CREDD banked up for who knows why.  So that's going to be $140 worth of CREDD that will Rot as of now, and more will come most likely as i make more Gold offline.
 
 
 
I don't hate the game, the game is just lacking.
 
  I got to 50.
There is no gear progression, running Vet Dungeons for gear does not exist.
I have all best in slot, and this took no effort to get.
 
So once your at 50.
 
Get gear (Which is mostly crafted and world drops you buy off AH)
Finish Attunement (Done)
Run others through attuenement over and over until you can hopefully make it into a raid without people quitting and having to repeat attunement.	
----
			Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			
 
As for me?  I'm just along for the ride.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			Also, I should mention for people that, unless you've added someone's account as a friend, people may have jumped classes.  God only knows the guild my chua was in must think I quit the game.	
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{| class="blockquote"
The videos they had showed that Raids were hard. I wasn't intending to Raid anyway, so I bought in. Dungeon difficulty was definitely a surprise. But I changed my expectations and am doing fine. It's those that didn't change their expectations that left.
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Here's the thing about people-- especially people who currently describe themselves as "hardcore" in MMOs: They aren't. They start off with the assumption that they're unstoppable badasses-- and when they're stopped, they rage and run off.
 
Most people severely overestimate their own skill and talent. Seriously, go ask people in a forum how much they can squat or bench press or how fast they can run a mile. Ninety-five percent of the respondents will give you an Olympic-level stat. People are stupid and arrogant and I... I HATE THEM ALL!!!!
 
TURNING... INTO... HULK!!!!
 
FORUM HULK SMASH!!!	
----
			
To anyone who are looking for a reason to log in every night: You can farm gold for me. Really, I don't mind. Go ahead, do it :)
 
The game is fun. I'm not looking into a game that just 'consume time'. I want a game that I want to play, and I like to play. This is it. If I don't feel like playing it one night, no worry. I log into CSGO or watch a couple movie. It will be there tomorrow ;)	
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{| class="blockquote"
And the game itself isn't new. This is just porting it over to the western world.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It's pretty common to think or be vocal about what you believe you want, when in actuality what you want is far from what you vocalized.
 
Raid 3-4hours a night at 5 days a week for wipes, crap loot, and walls....hardcore
 
or
 
Raid 3-4hours two days out of a week for great loot, progression, and fun w/.friends, stress free....Sold.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you are right. they should just start everyone at level 50, give them the best gear and weapons without breaking a sweat, and then.....
 
----
			
it never occur to you Tex that those people were probably Trolls?
 
I just read a new *I quit WS now* thread... Soooooooo funny. What are people trying to achieve here by doing that? It's the first game's forum where I see people doing it haha. I'm like: well good, get the F out now lol.
 
It's equivalent to posting a thread about how I stop eating tacos today on a tacos forum. WHY	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Carbine said the game was going to be hard. A ton of people bought in, and were surprised by how hard it was. It was so hard they quit. People are really hard to figure out.
----
			Ok. After finishing work and working out the Monday cobwebs Id like to come back and apologize for my poorly worded bitter vitreol i posted earlier. The basis of the ideas I stand by, however they were worded poorly and heavily steeped with frustration.   After doing some research and playing the game and taking into account a new perspective given by this thread, Ive found something that pretty much somes up my feelings of the game. Again I apologize for my earlier out bursty nonsense posts, Ill leave it to a more articulate person to say what I should have said.From : korsobar in a comment on Massively forums in response to an article about W* :In addition to the issues with raiding and accessibility there were other problems that are worth mentioning.  The loot / rune slot RNG was a terrible idea, especially as it totally fails to appeal to the min-maxers, who are often hardcore raiders.  The PvP itemization was terrible and heavy handed balance nerfs (e.g. nerfing healing) made the game feel like it was still in a beta test phase after release.  The class ability changes and release of areas that clearly should have been incorporated into the late leveling process also lent credence to the idea that the game was pushed out earlier.  Then there were the bugs, lots of bugs.None of that is what really made me quit though. I quit because when I went to look at the forums all I saw was every single piece of criticism shot down by people who thought any change was a change to easy mode and that any implementation design by carbine was the true hardcore.  Wildstar attracted a very nasty group of wannabe elitists who did as much as the devs to prevent needed changes from taking place.  Too bad because the core combat was really quite fun. 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
it never occur to you Tex that those people were probably Trolls?
 
I just read a new *I quit WS now* thread... Soooooooo funny. What are people trying to achieve here by doing that? It's the first game's forum where I see people doing it haha. I'm like: well good, get the F out now lol.
 
It's equivalent to posting a thread about how I stop eating tacos today on a tacos forum. WHY
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{| class="blockquote"
None of that is what really made me quit though. I quit because when I went to look at the forums all I saw was every single piece of criticism shot down by people who thought any change was a change to easy mode and that any implementation design by carbine was the true hardcore.  Wildstar attracted a very nasty group of wannabe elitists who did as much as the devs to prevent needed changes from taking place.  Too bad because the core combat was really quite fun.
 
----
			Drop 3 will probably make it or break it for most players. If Carbine dishes out the 'right' bug fixes and changes, then the game has a very good future as it could potentially pull a fair few players back to the game.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
you are right. they should just start everyone at level 50, give them the best gear and weapons without breaking a sweat, and then.....
 
yeah you cant do that with a game 90 days after release. It cannot be made to just be easy because you will hit a wall and have nothing to do and be bored by how easy it is.
 
mmo's require strategy and length. there needs to be a grind whether its to cap to level then raid, or cap level > attune > raid. it provides meat to end content otherwise it would just be end.
 
its a catch 22 of all mmo developers and everybody thinks the solution is to make them quicker and easier so they are more "enjoyable"
 
i for one dont find it enjoyable to be spoon fed and to have someone wipe my ass. even in WS current state its super easy to hit 50 and the attunement process grind is just Act II of the game. God forbid they just dont let their players beat the game and sit around with their thumbs up their ass waiting for more content and leave because it is taking to long to supply new content because they have to fix remaining issues first to please those who havent capped and have nothing left to do.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Sad to see that people even think this is the reason for many people leaving.
I finished attunement, i helped get many others attuned. I didn't find the game hard.
 
The game is don't stand in red.. interrupt at right time.. and its over.  Not really.. hard.
 
 
 
The only "hard" thing about the game is relying on other people to not make a mistake.
1 Mistake = *cupcake*ed is not the same as the game being hard to me.
 
Its more like beat your head against the wall until everything goes correctly.
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https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/112897-aaand-now-its-my-turn-to-leave/?p=1172328
 
And yet, this thread stays open. Why? WHY? Why would anyone even start a thread with this title is just, *sigh* pointless. 
 
Smh	
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The OP is asking the wrong question.  The right question is how many people would still be here if they had to spend there own money and weren't playing on CREDD?  I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people in this thread are playing on CREDD instead of spending their own $15.00.  I know I am, I won't give another penny to this game.  When CREDD either gets too expensive or just flat runs out for me to keep playing I'll leave.  
 
So this game is basically following a F2P theme already, just like GW2 it is running purely off Whales.  Without whales out there to keeping throwing $20.00 at Carbine so they can afford to dye their gear and letting the rest of us play for free the whole system would collapse on itself.  Relying on whales is a scary business proposition though, since when you lose one of them to the next 'big thing' it hurts a lot more than just losing a single subscriber.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The OP is asking the wrong question.  The right question is how many people would still be here if they had to spend there own money and weren't playing on CREDD?  I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people in this thread are playing on CREDD instead of spending their own $15.00.  I know I am, I won't give another penny to this game.  When CREDD either gets too expensive or just flat runs out for me to keep playing I'll leave.  
 
So this game is basically following a F2P theme already, just like GW2 it is running purely off Whales.  Without whales out there to keeping throwing $20.00 at Carbine so they can afford to dye their gear and letting the rest of us play for free the whole system would collapse on itself.  Relying on whales is a scary business proposition though, since when you lose one of them to the next 'big thing' it hurts a lot more than just losing a single subscriber.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Even poor little Evindra had people everywhere this weekend. The mid-leveling zones even had people. I saw banter in Galeras, groups forming in Whitevale and even saw others roaming around Farside - and it's been a long time since I'd seen that.
----
			I've personally lost a lot of excitement for the game because all my friends have quit playing. Without them the game loses most of it luster. I've tried just leveling alts but honestly the grind just beats me down. I don't know what the future holds for this game but when you do look around it's fairly easy to get an idea of what's going on right now. Hopefully this will change in the future if the devs can right the ship and lure people back. Either way I've got a years worth of credd to putz around on but I'm having a difficult time getting into it.	
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I don't know, OP.
All I know is that I'm really gone, I mean... what else do you call not having signed in for a couple weeks, even though I have 60 boxes left to open?
I'm paid until October 3rd, that just doesn't count.
 
Why am I gone? 
 
1. This game is beautiful with friends and guild of friends. Not hardcore elitists who don't care about eachother, but friends/pals/friendlies.  And who have some modicum of drive to beat hard content.  Sadly, I was not ready to move on to a new guild and making new friends was so-so (a lot of the people I really liked quit the game after the first month, no lie).  So we can chuck this up to either bad timing or mismatched purposes.  It's nobody's fault for this one, definitely not the game's.
 
2. This game's idea of solo content and grind content between the group content is dry as heck to me.  Even with guild, I like to play and do things on my own between raids or dungeons and this game just doesn't have anything for ME.  Notice "for me", not for everyone, for me. It does not have enough costuming or rewarding enough costuming to keep me (pso2 wins hands down with new outfits every 3 weeks).  It does not allow me to just keep changing my look (again pso2 wins, I don't personally care if it costs more RL moneyz).  I am not a huge fan of crafting in any game (I'd rather farm money and buy off of crafters) except potion crafting in Tera (necessity and they made it easy-mode).  I do not RP.  I am a completionist which meant that I touched every corner and every quest as I was leveling up, I think I had 3 quests left-over when I was done with blighthaven.  I do not find the fights interesting enough to keep farming mobs, elites are not BAMs, not by a long shot.  The white damage just... hmmmppfff.  End-game areas real elites are definitely 5mans, I tried 2man and can be done but I've long lost my favourite second slot party members.  I cannot stand doing the same dailies every day, every week.  Seeing the same three areas.  I can also not fathom repeating that tree quest every day either.  I like my grind to at least put on some sexy underwear and pretend to be fun.  WildStar doesn't.  Sadly my usual altoholism also hasn't seemed to survive in WildStar, after the first two areas, it's all so same-old-same-old... And maybe I just got bitter with WildStar by that point, as I can't live without having a couple "mains" that enjoy end-game. And I wasn't enjoying end-game cause I wasn't interested or actively disliked everything that I could do on my own.
 
3. Toxic pugs.  It's sad to say, because I found most of the leveling pugs at least half decent.  Some arse-wipe would moan, die, moan, quit.  Then the cool people would stick around, get us a better person or two and BAM... bash heads until we won.  Sometimes there was loot drama, sometimes there still was some moaning, but overall okay.  End-game was a total cattle of fish and felt like you needed to watch videos and perfect gear before ever stepping in there.  The experience made me go and buy crafted gear before stepping in there.  And, to be honest, that brings me to #4... (pugs were still toxic)
 
4. Gearing left a lot to be desired.  There.  It was too easy to get "good enough" and everything else felt lackluster.  I didn't get all starry eyed and make gear lists like I did in DDO or Tera.  In DDO I did it because of amazing UNIQUE abilities (rather than just stats, stats are boring) and in Tera because of looks... I'm sooooo vain!  In this game the randomness and the utter blandness of the BIS really left me bored.  And the crafted gear was too easy to get for just how decent it is.  I left DDO partially because they made gearing up "quite well" SUPER easy with easily farmable and sellable great items that over-rode old raids.  Easy come, easy go... easy come gear is never appreciated, never gives you that long term drive to farm and play.  That's the ugly truth.  We want easy gear, we're greedy, but it's always a bad idea.
 
5. Vanity systems are a good start, but feel barebone to ME.  Again, it's about what I like.  I like pretty things and while WildStar has many options, in some aspects it downright fights you!!!  Can't find more "costume" like items, you get drowned in jackets and turtlenecks, pants etc.  I like my pretty things.  Of course, it's a western rpg but they went on and on about customization and we've got some costumes... but just... ARG.  I'm female, what can I tell you, I want me some explorer skirt and steampunk dress for costuming!  We have lots of customization options but yet... crazy limited number of hairstyles and minimal control over your face (can't change around eyes, mouth, etc)... and you cannot go around changing it.  For those that don't care about these things, they'd never understand.  But I do.  Even in DDO I could change my haircolor at any point in time, and that thing is old and as western and non-vanity as you can get (it makes them money and they still haven't released new hair colors in ages lmao).  I care about these little things.
 
6. Bitterness re: the forums.  I am not going to sugarcoat things.  These forums have been depressing for some time.  And some moderation decisions really made things a lot more depressing and broke that feeling of "community" I had since the beta.  I have posted often, I have helped many, I have provided feedback, I have gotten close to some.  And sad to report that a lot of the people I got to know are long gone... even though they were involved with beta for a lot longer than me and were invested a great deal more than me.  I also really dislike a lot of moderation decisions over time.
 
The difficulty was excellent, for leveling and for group content.  The world was beautiful.  There was enough story to be interesting without smacking me upside the head with it.  The classes are wonderful (even engi, I reigned in my bots, baby!).  The developers are interesting and fun and I loved their involvement and their twitch livestreams.  
 
I don't know numbers.  All I know is people I liked are long gone.  And that matters more to me than anything else.  And I've noticed that people who have the community I mention in #1, cannot understand why anyone has issues with this game.  Proving my very point.	
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{| class="blockquote"
I don't know, OP.
All I know is that I'm really gone, I mean... what else do you call not having signed in for a couple weeks, even though I have 60 boxes left to open?
I'm paid until October 3rd, that just doesn't count.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
That's sad. I didn't know you'd stopped playing.
----
			
I'm sticking it out for the Megaserver merge and drop 3 but if things don't get better I am most likely splitsville. Limited character customization options, no barber shop/stylist, lack of variety in armor skins, as well as what.. 1 costume (Raidin set) available is f__king pathetic. 
 
All of my friends have left but I've made new ones and I love housing and RP. That's what's keeping me here. 	
----
			I'm thinking about it, honestly, not much to do in wildstar. I log on 3 times a week for raid nights. That's it, Dailies get stale after months of doing them and no incentive for pvp. Guild is holding pvp night tonight. Other than this, the other game has more reason to play, and that game is now horrible and the community sucks there. It's not the bugs, it's not the population, that stuff isn't a major issue for me. It's the lack of fun stuff to do outside raiding and premade pvp.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I'm sticking it out for the Megaserver merge and drop 3 but if things don't get better I am most likely splitsville. Limited character customization options, no barber shop/stylist, lack of variety in armor skins, as well as what.. 1 costume (Raidin set) available is f__king pathetic. 
 
All of my friends have left but I've made new ones and I love housing and RP. That's what's keeping me here. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I find the costume customizing amazing... equip and dye any piece of armor in the game, far from 1 costume.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What other full costumes are there besides the Raidin' set? Yes I have the two gifted sets which are not available on the AH (highway-man and Eldan) and the fugly squirg hat and beret. No, I do not own the fez nor do I wish to own it. 
 
Now if additional equipment skins, mounts, and costumes were introduced in future content I'd be all for that. Costume sets obtained through rep perhaps which would incent us filthy casual RPers to go out and do dailies.. YES (ex Torine Sisterhood set)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think he confused COSTUME with ability to equip armor as costume.
 
I am with you, I really expected and wanted more "costumes".  Cool sets that are non-armor.  Was disappointed. 
----
			Let the Devs try to fix things and see where the game goes.  Bailing after so few months may be premature for many	
----
			
I don't know that anything can really be added to this thread, but I'm bored so I'll throw my 2 cents in.
 
The answer is yes the population is declining.  I know someone will (or has already to another post) reply with "proof?", and while no one has anything but anecdotal evidence to give one way or the other, I believe a rational person can feel comfortable with the statement that there are less people playing the game now than were playing the game at some point in the past (probably about one month after launch).  If the population was steadily increasing or staying the same, they would not be disrupting the player base with a megaserver.  Regardless of whether or not megaservers are the new hotness and dedicated servers are old and busted, the devs picked dedicated servers, and if they game was in a state where they considered it a success it's unlikely that they would be changing.  It's not like one server was empty and needed to be merged with another empty server.
 
My personal belief is that the subscription decline may not be all doom and gloom, but I do think people are playing less.  As an example, when leveling and gearing up at end game people played a certain amount of hours, but at some point after that a portion (my opinion is that the portion is large) only logs in to do dailies / cap elder gems / ect.  My experience has been that when people are unable to improve/progress they play less.  After all, at this point, the players that you saw online every day have now done the same dailies 60 or so times?  That's a lot of repetition for a small amount of gain.
 
The question that is more important is: Is the population decline a bad thing?  For current employees of Carbine - probably.  For a player that really enjoys this game?  Maybe not.  As long as Wildstar fills a large enough niche such that there are items on the AH/CX, the people playing group up together so that there are active guilds running content AND Carbine doesn't make a change to bring more players in that creates a negative environment for you (the player that enjoys the game), I can see people enjoying this game for many years. 	
----
			
"Rational" people understand statistics and understand that no meaningful statements on population trends are possible at this point in time. Because post launch MMO populations are necessarily at dis-equilibrium.
 
 
To have a meaningful trend you need a stationary or reasonably stationary system state. Which MMO's tend not to have when it comes to population until half a year out.
 
correlation =/= causation
 
Player concurrency and population are correlated; low population however, is NOT the driving factor in the low player concurrency in W*.
 
 
All I have to add, cheers all.
 
[/stats 101]	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What other full costumes are there besides the Raidin' set? Yes I have the two gifted sets which are not available on the AH (highway-man and Eldan) and the fugly squirg hat and beret. No, I do not own the fez nor do I wish to own it. 
 
Now if additional NEW and ATTRACTIVE equipment skins - rather than the tired recycled skins Carbine insists on using over and over again, new mounts, and new costumes were introduced in future content I'd be all for that. Costume sets obtained through a rep grind WOULD incent a LOT of filthy casual RPers to go out and do dailies..  (ex Torine Sisterhood set, Belle Walker's tank top, Mazaka harem girl set)
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Player concurrency and population are correlated; low population however, is NOT the driving factor in the low player concurrency in W*.
 
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Actualy there are about 3-4 new costumes on the PTR.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
"Rational" people understand statistics and understand that no meaningful statements on population trends are possible at this point in time. Because post launch MMO populations are necessarily at dis-equilibrium.
 
 
To have a meaningful trend you need a stationary or reasonably stationary system state. Which MMO's tend not to have when it comes to population until half a year out.
 
correlation =/= causation
 
Player concurrency and population are correlated; low population however, is NOT the driving factor in the low player concurrency in W*.
 
 
All I have to add, cheers all.
 
[/stats 101]
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
prove it.
----
			
Yes and no. The people that couldn't deal with whatever issues left, more RPers will probably leave due to merge, but everyone else seems happy with the game for the most part. 
 
I'm on board with the slower rate of gear progression at endgame.  I'm on board with the higher level of difficulty in dungeons.  I'm in it for the long run. 
 
My only major issue with the game at this point is finding a guild with a crowd I like.	
----
			
Yes people are really leaving Wildstar.
 
If you have a guild you are raiding with every night, you obviously aren't going to care or pay attention to the other servers or people who haven't been able to find a raiding guild.
 
No one outside of Carbine has the exact player count. But it is obvious when every server used to be high and now the only server that ever gets up to medium now in the US is Pergo.
 
PvP queue times regularly reach unknown earlier and earlier at night. 
 
There was a west coast raiding guild I was about to join until they disbanded because they were stuck at around 15 players for a month.
 
Also for those of you who keep citing the "Gartner hype cycle".
 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Nice. I did not know that... makes it even better. I downloaded the open beta, made myself a lil dude and played for about 15 minutes before my computer totally froze. Something which hasn't happened to me since the early 2000's. So I hop over to the forums, find a 52 page thread that says basically that nothing has been fixed, and if I keep trying it will kill my system like it did theirs, and nope on outta there for good.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
No one expects the Lopp inquisition!
----
			
 
{| class="blockquote"
The OP is asking the wrong question.  The right question is how many people would still be here if they had to spend there own money and weren't playing on CREDD?  I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people in this thread are playing on CREDD instead of spending their own $15.00.  I know I am, I won't give another penny to this game.  When CREDD either gets too expensive or just flat runs out for me to keep playing I'll leave.  
 
So this game is basically following a F2P theme already, just like GW2 it is running purely off Whales.  Without whales out there to keeping throwing $20.00 at Carbine so they can afford to dye their gear and letting the rest of us play for free the whole system would collapse on itself.  Relying on whales is a scary business proposition though, since when you lose one of them to the next 'big thing' it hurts a lot more than just losing a single subscriber.
----
			
There is a population problem. Proof? Mega servers.
 
Why are people leaving? Various reasons, there isn't one, one issue doesn't drive people away.
Could be the combination of delayed updates, the neglected content certain players want, end game, bugs, or dailies.
 
I could name one issue and get slammed because people do not all share the same thought process.
 
The only thing that can improve the game, speedy updates with good quality. This depends on Carbine's skill and the schedule planning.	
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A lot of players left thats for sure.
 
I just find it sad that so many players, who claimed they loved the game, quit so quickly. Giving it less than 3 months is too little time.
 
That said, seeing the state in which the game is in currently, the upcoming core system changes are what will make or break this game. If the changes end up being not that good, I would personally still stick around to give the devs more time to fix things....but if most players leave, then I'm leaving with them. An mmo with no players to play with is no longer an mmo. Not to mention that there won't be many players to do group content with.
 
Hopefully most players still playing this game can agree with me that this game holds such tremendous potential. It is up to us to stick around and give the game the time it needs for that potential to flourish.
 
Now begins my rant.
 
I dont get why they thought it was a good idea to have rngception in gear. Players LOATHE heavy handed progression walls like this.
 
I dunno why they thought only having a 20 and 40 man raids would be a good idea when WoW, the biggest mother cupcake mmo of all cupcake time, gave up on 40 man raids. Hint, they gave it up for a reason. Did they learn ANYTHING from WoW at all???
 
I dunno why they thought the entire player base would want to raid. Wheres the content for those who dont? Wheres the content to ease players into raids? attunement is stupid. Let the guilds decide who to bring into raids.
 
Why is there still so many bugs for each class? Players reported that cupcake during beta. Beta isnt some cupcake marketing stunt. Its for you to fix the cupcake game based on players feedback.
 
This game should have been delayed at least 6 months. You wanted to release before WoW expansion?? WoW expansion STILL hasnt come out! what the cupcake was the rush? Did you want to fight it out with ESO that much? That crappy game? Lets see how that worked out. 3 months in, you have taken down the servers for maintenance more than a heavy smoker trying to quit during his lifetime. 3 months in, you have lost most of your player base. 3 months in, you are in overdrive making sweeping changes to the core systems. This game should still be in beta. If you want to revive this game, then make the official launch of this game the moment all the big core system changes, including the megaservers, hit live. Then give everyone at least 3-4 months worth of CREED to compensate us for our time. Just think of it like f2p for 3-4 months. Otherwise you might have to start thinking of f2p forever until the game dies.
 
still lots more to rant about but i digress....../rant
 
Also, offtopic, but related. I find it hilarious that the game hoppers are all putting their faith in ArchAge as the next big thing. If players are saying that WS was/is a niche game....then ArchAge is even more niche than WS was ever designed to be.	
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Also, offtopic, but related. I find it hilarious that the game hoppers are all putting their faith in ArchAge as the next big thing. If players are saying that WS was/is a niche game....then ArchAge is even more niche than WS was ever designed to be.
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True, but F2P gamers have low standards. I'm not even saying that as an insult. This can be a good thing as it gives games time to grow (while I remember the instant ragequit threads of "paying customers" on these forums mere weeks after launch as soon as something wasn't to their liking).
You truly have to be pretty abysmally bad as an F2P game to completely fail.
So niche or not, AA seems to have better longterm survival chances than Wildstar to me at this moment in time.
 
Edit: Come to think of it... I wonder how successful a business model would be that starts as F2P and then introduces mandatory subscription later, once it has smoother everything out and developed a solid playerbase. Get players hooked for free, then spring the trap shut once they're invested. I'm sure some of the cheapskate usual suspects would grudgingly pay rather than lose their progress. ;)
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True, but F2P gamers have low standards. I'm not even saying that as an insult. This can be a good thing as it gives games time to grow (while I remember the instant ragequit threads of "paying customers" on these forums mere weeks after launch as soon as something wasn't to their liking).
You truly have to be pretty abysmally bad as an F2P game to completely fail.
So niche or not, AA seems to have better longterm survival chances than Wildstar to me at this moment in time.
 
Edit: Come to think of it... I wonder how successful a business model would be that starts as F2P and then introduces mandatory subscription later, once it has smoother everything out and developed a solid playerbase. Get players hooked for free, then spring the trap shut once they're invested. I'm sure some of the cheapskate usual suspects would grudgingly pay rather than lose their progress. ;)
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Well once we're talking about AA, I think Wildstar would be in a better position if they did what AA is doing. Have it F2P, but keep housing and other features locked unless they have a subscription.
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 EVE has had a stable population for years as a niche title, no reason WildStar can't do the same.
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There's a major flaw in F2P as a model for gamers themselves.  Companies make games to make money, so they can pay their bills and such.  Nothing changes that.  Subscription games put the money up front, like a utility company, and they are rewarded based on how many people play the game (subscribe).  F2P games are different, because they make their money elsewhere in the game than from people playing, and therefore have incentive to promote that.  At the best, you get games with a watered down version that is free, but which is constantly showing you should pay a sub, so the money comes from people subbing.  At worst, you have game companies literally designing games to make you want to buy things.  Either way, the incentive isn't to make the entire game interesting for the playerbase, it's to sell a product.  Essentially, F2P games use their games as advertising for whatever they actually are selling.
 
I mean, honestly, I spent more than 15 dollars at Wendy's this week to buy lunch for my wife and me.  I could afford WoW during the crash working at Target.  F2P games make more money because, in the end, advertising sells products and F2P games are giant advertisements for more goods and services you have to buy.  People will spend more in those games than on subs quite often because they don't realize how the game is designed to manipulate them into it.
 
I'd much rather Carbine makes the game good for everyone because we're all technically "paying in".  CREDD makes the game about as free as it needs to be for anyone.  The reason you see the fire lit under Carbine's ass and not under most other game companies' is because of how the sub model incentivizes them.
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The main reason that Wildstar can't do the same is that EVE is privately owned by the game developers. CCP can freely choose to run the game for low profit, no profit, or even at a loss if they want to keep shoving money into it. It's their money and they can do what they like.
 
NCSoft is a public company.  Wildstar has to make a reasonable profit to remain up and running for the long term.  It has to make a somewhat better than reasonable profit to continue adding new content, which is expensive.  
 
A secondary reason why Wildstar won't be EVE 2.0 is that EVE is a unique product.  This gives it staying power in that people can't find any other MMO experience that's like EVE. EVE has essentially zero competition.  
 
Wildstar, on the other hand, is directly in competition with the biggest fish out there -- WoW, FFXIV, SWTOR and even NCSoft's own GW2 to a certain extent. ESO also counts as competition although it's not exactly a big fish at the moment.  
 
If Wildstar were privately owned and if it offered something unique I would say it was doing fine.  But neither of those is true so I can't say that. 
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