120545-bi-weekly-patches

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Two weeks ago there was a "Bi-Weekly" patch that happened https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119985-bi-weekly-update-12162014/
 
I was wondering if we will be seeing a patch this week or was the patch notes title simply mislabled?
 
Id really like to see a patch every 2 weeks and I understand its the holidays but if carbine is going to commite to the Bi-weekly patches then they need to push out a patch reguardless.
 
Let me restate that I know vacation is happening till the 5th but if carbine was serious about bi-weekly patches they should have not labed the last patch this way and waited till everyone was back.
 
Mod i know its just you guys here till the 5th but do we have any offical statements from them as to why we didnt see a patch this week, other then "they are on vacation"?	
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I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, it's hard to test and prep for a patch and roll it out, when they're not in office. :)
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			I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, it's hard to test and prep for a patch and roll it out, when they're not in office. :)	
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			Oh, I don't know about the specific wording, except to say perhaps it's generally understood that if there are holidays and no one around.. there won't be a patch. It just sounds a bit silly to say "bi-weekly patches EXCEPT when no one is in the office for holidays" (and it's a mouthful) when it is implied there is no patch during holidays. :) (Not an official stance, just opinion). Christmas / New Years  is a bit unique this way. 	
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Oh, I don't know about the specific wording, except to say perhaps it's generally understood that if there are holidays and no one around.. there won't be a patch. It just sounds a bit silly to say "bi-weekly patches EXCEPT when no one is in the office for holidays" (and it's a mouthful) when it is implied there is no patch during holidays. :) (Not an official stance, just opinion). Christmas / New Years  is a bit unique this way. 
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how long did it take for the first bi-weekly patch while everyone was in the office? That should give you an idea.
Nov 10 to Dec 16	
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how long did it take for the first bi-weekly patch while everyone was in the office? That should give you an idea.
Nov 10 to Dec 16
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okay so are we to assume that the next bi-weekly will be 2 weeks after break? which i was told lasted till jan 5th. so jan 19? that is a monthly patch....
 
Nov 10
Dec 16
Jan 19
 
patches are drops now guys	
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I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here, it's hard to test and prep for a patch and roll it out, when they're not in office. :)
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			I'd rather see patches that fix key issues on a fluctuating schedule than static patches that may or may not fix anything crucial. And did anyone really think there would be a patch dropped between Christmas and NYE?	
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Honestly... the company I work for is hugely successful, yet I only get Xmas day, Boxing Day and New Years day off. Hell I'm working right now.
 
What is the mentality for a company to give all it's employees a 2 week vacation during Xmas when it's on the verge of going belly up?
 
Just feels like they are not treating this product like their financial livelihoods depend on it.	
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yeah im pretty sure they just had down time last night. unless that is on a schedueled timer they atleast have 1 guy working. also idk why they didnt mention not having the bi-weekly in this post https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/120324-happy-holidays-thank-you/ it seems the best place to put "and the next bi-weekly will be postponed till xx/xx/xxx"
 
 
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I'd rather see patches that fix key issues on a fluctuating schedule than static patches that may or may not fix anything crucial. And did anyone really think there would be a patch dropped between Christmas and NYE?
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Honestly... the company I work for is hugely successful, yet I only get Xmas day, Boxing Day and New Years day off. Hell I'm working right now.
 
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+3
 
Of course here bi weekly means when it happens	
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			they should probably just stop calling them weekly/bi-weekly patches if they have no intention of following that scheduleleaving an open door to scrutiny is no good for anyonepersonally though i'm anticipating the next PTR drop way more.Wanna play those 20 man datascape encounters when they're actually tuned for 20!	
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they should probably just stop calling them weekly/bi-weekly patches if they have no intention of following that schedule
leaving an open door to scrutiny is no good for anyone
 
personally though i'm anticipating the next PTR drop way more.
Wanna play those 20 man datascape encounters when they're actually tuned for 20!
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you arnt scared that CRB will mess up again? that the raid will be too hard and youll have to wait for a patch so you can down a boss?
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Going to jump in here, before anybody gets solid expectations of when to expect patches.
 
YES, the INTENT is to try and roll out an update on a two-week rotation, along with hotfixes inbetween if necessary.
NO, this won't always happen bang-on every two weeks. Issues with patch deployment, potential issues, holidays, random other things, could delay this "Bi-Weekly" for however long.
 
Then why call them Bi-Weekly Patches? Well, first of all it's primarily the internal/dev teams that call them that. I'm personally not a fan of putting a time-stamp on anything because nothing in this industry is for certain, things go wrong, and threads *just like this one* end up getting made. ;) Secondly, for the MOST part they *should* be every couple of weeks. Things like offices being shut down for the holidays will mean significant delays, tech issues may knock it out by a week or so and they *should* be rare occurrences.
 
That's some "hot off the press" scoop info for you there.	
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Thanks for the update! 
 
I vote to rename these patches to "Happy-Surprise-Random Patch" *throws glitter on it*	
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Chua recommend just call it "patch".
No confusion, no complaining	
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Still wishing for a redesigned login screen to incorporate a Dev daily blog and community links, then these sort of posts can be put to bed!
 
Hey I can wish.....it's the New Year    :)	
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Going to jump in here, before anybody gets solid expectations of when to expect patches.
 
YES, the INTENT is to try and roll out an update on a two-week rotation, along with hotfixes inbetween if necessary.
NO, this won't always happen bang-on every two weeks. Issues with patch deployment, potential issues, holidays, random other things, could delay this "Bi-Weekly" for however long.
 
Then why call them Bi-Weekly Patches? Well, first of all it's primarily the internal/dev teams that call them that. I'm personally not a fan of putting a time-stamp on anything because nothing in this industry is for certain, things go wrong, and threads *just like this one* end up getting made. ;) Secondly, for the MOST part they *should* be every couple of weeks. Things like offices being shut down for the holidays will mean significant delays, tech issues may knock it out by a week or so and they *should* be rare occurrences.
 
That's some "hot off the press" scoop info for you there.
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I know you have only the best intentions here, trying to diffuse a delicate situation and all, but this is basically the same thing we keep hearing about patches. 
 
First we were told bug fixes would come as they were ready.
Then we were told that they would come in the monthly drops.
Then we were told that those monthly drops were going to be quarterly.
Lately we were told that there would be bi-weekly patches in between the quarterly drops.
And now we're being told that those bi-weekly patches are "when they are ready" patches. 
 
Well which is it? How exactly do you expect the community, that still has an iota of faith left, to react to this?
Honestly it's progressed far beyond the point on infuriating and has elevated to somewhat of a plateau between "when Hell freezes over" and "June 6, 1944".
 
I'm not saying this is exactly your fault, but stop "promising" stuff if it can't happen. Just stop please.
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I know you have only the best intentions here, trying to diffuse a delicate situation and all, but this is basically the same thing we keep hearing about patches. 
 
First we were told bug fixes would come as they were ready.
Then we were told that they would come in the monthly drops.
Then we were told that those monthly drops were going to be quarterly.
Lately we were told that there would be bi-weekly patches in between the quarterly drops.
And now we're being told that those bi-weekly patches are "when they are ready" patches. 
 
Well which is it? How exactly do you expect the community, that still has an iota of faith left, to react to this?
Honestly it's progressed far beyond the point on infuriating and has elevated to somewhat of a plateau between "when Hell freezes over" and "June 6, 1944".
 
I'm not saying this is exactly your fault, but stop "promising" stuff if it can't happen. Just stop please.
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This is where the distinction between a DROP and a PATCH comes into play.
 
The Drops are still quarterly. A Drop is a big update, new features, new content, big changes or lots of them all in one go etc. A Patch is usually when we fix stuff, re-balance things, with the occasional small feature or gameplay change.
 
We listened to the feedback that waiting for Drops to get key fixes in place was way too long, so with a lot of work and process, Dev/Live started to get the ball rolling towards these "Bi-Weekly" patches. As pointed out, this name isn't ideal because they aren't happening "Bi-Weekly" but when we can make them happen, however the intent is to get them running around that "every two-weeks margin".
 
And I am writing all this SPECIFICALLY because I want to make it clear we are NOT promising stuff.
 
To my knowledge, we haven't promised stuff either. We are still on the same "when we can make fixes happen, we will make them happen" schedule and that hasn't changed since we switched the drops to a quarterly deployment. If a member of staff has said somewhere that we will definitely be doing a "Bi-Weekly" patch, bang on time, every two-weeks between drops then please let me know so I can chat to them because that is not my understanding.
 
No matter what, there can always be unforeseen issues that prevent us from hitting deadlines like that so *any* timeframe not posted on the main website, in a news post, should be taken with a "no issues permitting" clause auto-included.
 
Just to further the point though, I 100% agree that we should have clearly messaged there would be no updates over the holiday period (I could only speak for the Community Team's availability in my holidays post due to my locale) and I completely agree that we shouldn't be giving people false expectations by calling things "Bi-Weekly" when there is a chance it may not be.
 
However, we've always worked towards getting fixes out as and when we could, we're just now trying to formalise it and lock it down to a more regular schedule.  
 
Hope that clears up any misunderstanding.
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This is something that I feel carbine doesnt understand how importaint these are to get out as quick as possible. The medic probes took almost 5 weeks to fix. Other big issues also took weeks to fix. The PvP Q issue with DS is STILL in the game and thats been over 2 months now. Thats a no no. So if carbine wants to commit to bi-weekly or a scheduled patchs then great. Personally I would like to see this BUT if you dont have the dev power for it dont.
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game development is a lot harder then you think there is a lot of work to do explaining each step from getting a bug and fixing it towards publishing the fix would be too hard but i will do a basic scheme:
 
1. find the bug
2. collect information about the bug
3. put a coder on it
4. get tests going to find the code that you need
5. fix/restructure the code
6. test the code
7. if possible put it in the next hotfix IF it doesnt need a new build (this is getting really indepth but let me quickly explain what i mean with builds: a build is a complete new structure in a code it means that you actually put NEW code in it to fix something)
8. hope it didnt break anything else (it most likely did)
changing logic (not the brain logic the computer logic) is a indepth thing and needs time to fix and test it easily breaks things.
mathematical things + logical things like matchmaking are hard to adjust and kinda unforgiving if you mess up!
carbine said that they wont make a complete new build for one fix and publish it (way too much work you need to compile the complete game for that shit usually)... if they got enough new code then thats whats called patch/drop
 
its not about dev power you cant put more then a few devs on one fix they will most likely completely ruin the system and make it worse if there are too many.
development is hard and frustrating as a dev and as a player but what we can do is show the respect for the things that the devs do because fixing one thing most likely will break another thing.
 
ps:
this is a scheme example and indepth development can and most likely will look different from company to company.
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well i also think that they shouldnt have said bi-weekly patch cuz of the game development cycle that usually breaks any timeframe.
ofc i didnt mean it that way sry if it came to you like that. i just wanted to show a basic scheme of bug finding and fixing to explain my thoughts on the situation carbine got themself into.
but honestly anlath cant do anything for the mistakes that his boss (lead product manager) did in phasing his posts about patches.
so we should just take them as patches and as you said the community is aware that fixing things just takes the time it needs nobody wants a half fixed system making it even worse then it was.
 
our job as the community is to help them improve the title we all love called widlstar there are things like bad wording that can be like an earthquake in the community but i am sure carbine can do it if we give them the time they need.
i am not expecting any pvp fixes until drop 5 and 6 drop 4 is too close and already in a really good shape so lets not rush anything.	
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If a member of staff has said somewhere that we will definitely be doing a "Bi-Weekly" patch, bang on time, every two-weeks between drops then please let me know so I can chat to them because that is not my understanding.
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Ok but heres the thing
 
You and many others specifically called them bi-weekly patches. That name implies, by its very definition, that you will release a patch roughly every 2 weeks. If you set up an hourly train service and you only ran 4 trains a day, people would be rightly pissed off.
 
Either completely stop referring to it as a bi-weekly patch or start delivering things at the rate that matches what you claim.
 
Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash what you guys do. You're all working hard and trying to fix the bugs. This is purely a communication issue in that you're misleading the players into thinking you're going to be releasing fixes at a rate that just isn't doable.
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Ok but heres the thing
 
You and many others specifically called them bi-weekly patches. That name implies, by its very definition, that you will release a patch roughly every 2 weeks. If you set up an hourly train service and you only ran 4 trains a day, people would be rightly pissed off.
 
Either completely stop referring to it as a bi-weekly patch or start delivering things at the rate that matches what you claim.
 
Dont get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash what you guys do. You're all working hard and trying to fix the bugs. This is purely a communication issue in that you're misleading the players into thinking you're going to be releasing fixes at a rate that just isn't doable.
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I refer you both to the following in my earlier posts on the topic;
 
 
 
 
 
 ;)
 
It's something we (Community Team) have already discussed with the Live/Dev teams but habits can be tricky to break. I'd rather just call it a "Patch" myself. Then we could have; Hotfixes, Patches and Drops. Three very clear, very distinct types of "update".
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Seriously, all of this because someone put bi-weekly on a patch note.
 
THEY ARE ON VACATION! Seriously. I could see this post being made in like 3 months if bi-weekly was continuously used on patches that were not bi-weekly, but after ONE? Cut them some slack, seriously.	
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 but trust me, 99% of the community understand that nothing happens over night.
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			jeez they are being harsh alanth. we are just asking for more communication/clarity of what to expect	
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Seriously, all of this because someone put bi-weekly on a patch note.
 
THEY ARE ON VACATION! Seriously. I could see this post being made in like 3 months if bi-weekly was continuously used on patches that were not bi-weekly, but after ONE? Cut them some slack, seriously.
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Seriously, all of this because someone put bi-weekly on a patch note.
 
THEY ARE ON VACATION! Seriously. I could see this post being made in like 3 months if bi-weekly was continuously used on patches that were not bi-weekly, but after ONE? Cut them some slack, seriously.
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He conceded that "bi-weekly" was an in-house term that got out into the wild and gave people the false expectation that there would be patches dropped live every other week. What really sucks about this is that now there will probably be a memo sent out that scolds people for not watching the terminology on these forums and watch what you say yadda yadda, and now in the short term we'll probably get less open communication from the devs (here's hoping that isn't the case).
 
And I hope everyone at Carbine had a fantastic holiday break, got some time to rest and recharge, and is ready for all the new challenges and good times that are coming up in 2015!	
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Believe me carbine has been given plenty of slack. No one is bashing them for going on holiday.
 
We simply are asking for them to communicate better. Bi-weekly patches is fine if they would have said "this starts X date after we come back from holiday break".
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...
I vote to rename these patches to "Happy-Surprise-Random Patch" *throws glitter on it*
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No confusion, no complaining
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No confusion, no complaining
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wow a lot of crying on this forum. okay ill try and pick this up.
 
a lot of people didnt like the tern bi-weekly because off how the word implies a set schedule. but now we know that coining that term was not intentional. okay so we should not be upset right? wrong people keep talking about it in the posts below mark's.
 
what i believe most people are upset about is that there is no set schedule for anything. people believe it or not like to follow a set schedule or pattern or habit, its in our nature. we also dont like uncertainty. all those comments referring to the "bi-weekly" patches after mark's post are really saying "can you please give us some sort of date for the bugs we want fixed?"
 
i can tell you its better to have a scheduled 3 week patch than it is to have it be done within 1-3 weeks but no dates guaranteed. we, or at least i understand that things can come up which make patches and fixes late but that does not mean you should completely forgo have any sort of schedule. instead you should have a schedule and if its going to be late state it before the date and a reason why.
 
because of all of the lack of dates and schedules i basically have given up on thinking anything will get fixed in a reasonable amount of time.	
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i basically have given up on thinking anything will get fixed in a reasonable amount of time.
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For the most part, things do get fixed in a reasonable amount of time. For a given real world definition of reasonable. Players don't have a realistic definition of reasonable most of the time.
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i suppose "reasonable" is subjective. nice catch!
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You've been here long enough to know there will be confusion and complaining no matter what they call it. They could call them sparkley glue sticks for all the difference it would make. At this point, the reflexive complainers don't even need a reason anymore.
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