127041-loyalty-rewards-feedback-discussion-title-mount-etc

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== Content ==
			How do I know if I qualify for the full appreciation reward? I've held up C.R.E.D.D for 9 months and I'm pretty sure a part from 1st free month + normal sub I qualify, but not sure. 	
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A little query about the crawler mount. I played closed beta, open beta and had a subscription. Due to working away I cancelled it for 2-3 months. I now have an active sub again. Does this mean I Won't get the crawler mount???
 
Can a CRB confirm this?
 
I'll be divested if i don't :(	
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*applauds*
 
I don't like that my wife who only unsubbed for a few months because of school can't get the mount, but I'm glad you're giving out 4 months of signature for anyone who remains subbed from now on. Overall I'm pleased with your first strike into F2P and this was a long time coming.
 
Thank you for the hard work getting us here, let's hope it brings us some people to play with.	
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			Does this mean that if you had even one day where your subscription wasn't active, you lose out on the loyalty reward?	
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			If only you were loyal for that one day...	
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I like that launch subscribers get the mount but no one else can.
 
However, I think all of the loyalty rewards should only stay unlocked if you remain a subscriber, and go away if you stop.	
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Oh my god,
 
Created on Jun 4, 2014
 
^ my sub.
 
I remember making this new account to get away from people and missing the first day especially so there wasn't as many queues... there goes my loyalty rewards :(
 
Reckon I can ticket and get them given to me? :P
 
EDIT: I am both laughing and crying right now. Fml!	
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I want answer about subscribers since day one who's weren't subscribed for day or two. I'm gonna loose my s**** if I don't get the reward :D
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While I do appreciate the loyalty awards, myself and a few others feel a little upset for having let their sub lapse for a time and now won't be getting the mount. As a completionist, it really sucks. 
 
Being in beta, here for launch, and currently being subscribed before the F2P announcement should be enough to get all the rewards. Hell, I even bought multiple box copies to help you guys out. 
 
Please consider loosening the requirements just a bit for the mount reward.	
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			I want answer about subscribers since day one who's weren't subscribed for day or two. I'm gonna loose my s**** if I don't get the reward :D	
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			Yeah, the more I think about how "disloyal" I am, the more down I get. :(	
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Yeah, the more I think about how "disloyal" I am, the more down I get. :(
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Created on May 20, 2014
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			I want a mount too!!! while I'm unloyal by nature to all and everything including myself i STILL FEEL ENTITLED TO A MOUNT!!
			
				
	Edited May 28, 2015 by BusterCasey	
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			It will suck staring at the greyed out mount on your tab when you know you can never get it. Really upset.	
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Well at least I'l be getting some mount on this account....
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			My account was created May 15th. I'm uber loyal. I wanna Scorchwing mount. -I'm- the timer on Scorchwing suckahs!	
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Fifty nine pages in and folks are still talking about the handling of the player appreciation program. It should be pretty clear by now that the current system in place is inadequate for what it's trying to do. And after all even though there may be folks that just care for getting the items or folks who dismiss the whole thing because it is only stuff they themselves don't care about, the fact remains that this reward scheme has been made to show player appreciation, as is in the name, and falls short. It is not so strange then that people stand up and attempt to address the issue, I would think.
 
Why does it fall short then. Well if I'm not mistaken the mount and title part of the program are meant for players who've shown their continued support to Carbine. However only those with 100% subscription uptime are to receive those tokens of appreciation. That means that every single person who supported the game for that full duration but had the misfortune of say, being unable to procure a game card for a while, being faced with credit card issues, being faced with a hacked account which needed to be temporarily shut down or any other technical or practical issue that may have caused them to involuntarily lapse for a day or a week, are apparently not appreciated as much as those who were spared such misfortune. In fact they are appreciated as much as anyone who gets a subscription by the 15th of June and remains a subscriber until the transition. That's a very strange way to show the appreciation Carbine wants to show us I feel.
 
Not unexpected that it rubs a lot of folks the wrong way then. But, as has often been stated in this thread, where would you draw the line instead. Who should get which level of appreciation. Something opinions understandably vary wildly over. And no matter what you pick, it's going to leave disgruntled people in its wake. So what if we make the line less important. Something similar has been suggested earlier in this thread I believe but let's explore the possibilities.
 
- Qualifying for the full player appreciation program requires a subscription uptime of roughly a year and several months.
- Qualifying for part of it requires a subscription uptime of roughly several months.
 
It's just very important that you have all that time invested before the transition. If we'd remove that you could:
 
- Let people start with the amount of time they have invested up to the transition, after the transition.
- Let people fill up more time by having a signature subscription (bonus for Carbine because you create more incentive for sigsubs)
- When they reach the Qualifying milestones, they get their items.
 
However, it could be argued that those who supported Carbine before the transition is who the appreciation program is really meant for and that my suggestion above would extend this appreciation to others in an unintended way. Perhaps to alleviate this somewhat you could:
 
- Make time gained via sigsubs only count for half, effectively requiring someone who wants to qualify for the player appreciation program completely via that route take twice as long as people who subscribed before the transition. Something in that vein. The number is just an example.
 
Of course there's also the consideration of collectors versus those who want exclusive items. Can't really appease both I think. So you could either:
 
- Have the player appreciation program be of unlimited time, showing appreciation to everyone who has a subscription, be it signature or not, for a lengthy amount of time.
- Only make people eligible to qualify for the player appreciation program if they have at least some subscription time invested before the transition happens.
 
Now, in all honesty, I'm a collector myself so obtaining these items matter to me as completing collections of various kinds (Think dyes, pets, mounts) is part of my endgame, much like housing or raiding can be part of someone else's endgame. And from what I can remember I lapsed a day or two due to my physical copy of Wildstar being delayed in the mail and receiving it too late to put in my game code before the grace period expired. So I very much have a vested interest in the system changing, but even if I didn't everything I've stated above still holds true. Collector or not. Eligible or not. The system as it is, is very unfair.
 
I'm aware it has been stated by Youmukon in this thread and on the stream that there are no plans to change this system but at the same time the transition is still far away and part of this early announcement is so Carbine can collect feedback. Plus I still believe that the devs are listening so I'm hopeful that they will at least take our objections and suggestions into consideration and perhaps improve upon shortcomings of the current system.
 
Thank you for reading.	
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Here's what I think they will do because I really think they're not dumb :
 
For now the line is hard and dry and even lapsing for one hour makes you "loose" the mount. For now...
 
Then they'll try to program a tool, or write a database query, to track everyone that lapsed for only a few hours here and there (mostly because of how the CREDD system works and it really isn't players fault), or maybe just one day because of credit card errors or whatnot and will include them in the mount gifting as well.
 
It just is they will only announce it when the tool/database query is programmed/written and tested. It's better they announce something very strict now, and ease it later, than the contrary and we know why...
 
Now as for people who lapsed a month or two or more : you *will* get appreciation rewards, just not all of them, those would be for people who never lapsed at all.
So I really think people like Byonaa, and I hope also Sylqt, will get the mount, while others will not.	
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I get that some of you guys are diehard supporters. I know that anytime people have complained, you have taken Carbines side and defended their bad choices. Byou have been vehement Carbine defenders from the beginning, #hardcore, and totally against f2p.
 
But you have been wrong every time. You are wrong this time. Its pretty simple when you take a step back and look at it.
 
If you're going to do something to say you appreciate players, make sure you can do it for all the players you intend to praise.
 
Its like customer service 101. They should just come out and say they appreciate so many more people than they are, and give the mount to everyone who has subbed for at least 9 months, cumulative.
 
The people have spoken, and we have said it loud and clear. Your #hardcore and stubborn decision making and bad design doesn't work. Here is your feedback, and if you don't listen in a timely manner, you will dig yourself right back into the two steps forward, 1 step back hole you always do.
 
Give yourselves a break. You made a fun game but the community and consumers are #1. Quit backhanding the consumer for your marketing and design inadequacies.	
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Acting as if other people are not appreciated by getting two items less is simply being dramatic, nothing more, nothing less.
 
But i can understand the frustration behind not being able to the item but let's not exaggerate.
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So you left the game, didn't resub, or maintain your subscription, and then come back and you expec to be called loyal vs someone who maintained their sub by choice and support and wanting to buy a full year sub for the purpose of giving the game as much of a headstart as they could?
 
YOU let your sub laps, so why should you get the rewards that others who didn't let it lapse do get?
 
How loyal are you really if you just let your sub lapse and not play?
 
But thanks for the personal mention though, and thanks for making me out to be the bad guy. It's really nice to see someone try to make me seem unloyal to the game.
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Its bad policy and bothers lots of loyal players when they simply dont have to.
 
Really, if they had offered the mount to most players and given a title to those without the lapse, people would be a lot less upset.
 
I mean, think of it from my perspective for a second. I play arenas primarily, and Tranagram broke arenas for over a month by making such a harsh bug and not fixing it in a timely manner. My preferred mode of gameplay was compromised for over 1 month, and now they dont appreciate me not cancelling my sub for that.
 
Carbine has made way too many mistakes to act the way they do IMO. If they had a travel advisor I would give them a very bad hospitality review.
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How were you in game everyday if your account lasped?
 
Like did it run out and then someone gave you a CREDD?
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Hey guys, let's pay some art and animation guys some money so that only a select few can have this mount. I'm sure the guys that spent all the time creating that for us appreciate the negative connotation its going to get for anyone but the 12 players who didn't lapse.
 
I know that if I spent hours designing and modeling something, I'd want as few people as possible to see it.	
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FWIW, I rethought this overnight. I still think being subbed every month should be the criteria, but I added this edit to what I originally posted: 
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EDIT: I posted this before going to bed last night and after sleeping on it, thought "what's really so special about having a non-interrupted subscription, if you subscribed every month since launch, shouldn't that count as the same thing?" I mean, like I mentioned, there are people who got a 12 -month recurring sub who may have taken a few months off in that time, whereas people who subbed every month by activating CREDD after it expired made a conscious decision to continue playing.
 
I know that people have already responded to my post so I didn't want to edit what I originally said.
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Madblue, your argument is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable, are the requirements that are simply too strict.
 
Too many people have lapsed at no fault of their own and for extremely short time spans. Carbine is silly not to understand that. But hey, this isn't Carbines first time totally misunderstanding the community and consumer base.	
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Carbine really should consider adding some sort of grace period, or clarifying what is considered a lapse (the account hitting closed at any time, >1 day, >1 week), which would put a stop to a bunch of posts (tho depending on their definition, could cause a whole slew of other posts).
 	
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			I think being subscribed for every month is fair.  Whether that means they lapsed on the 5th of one month, but resubscribed on the 20th of the next month.  They were still subscribed for every  month.	
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Carbine really should consider adding some sort of grace period, or clarifying what is considered a lapse (the account hitting closed at any time, >1 day, >1 week), which would put a stop to a bunch of posts (tho depending on their definition, could cause a whole slew of other posts).
 
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Well as I and many others said before - currently some1 that bought game+1y sub and dropped game after 3 months is "more loyal", than some1 using only CREEDs and redeeming them on logout of server or the following day, that logged every single day.
Sure you may say it is juts poor selection of words by Carbine, but they have already have used them.
 
The discussion might be of course pointless, as Carbine can do anything (hopefully devs are still listening). The problem for both community and Carbine would be enraged players, some may even left game (yes over pet) and if some1 will ask them, if it's worth to try F2P of WS, guess what they will say... It's all about publicity.	
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You're really opinionated when something doesn't go your way.  So now they've made a poor decision, that doesn't effect you, so now it's everyone else's problem?
 
My wife either lost 1 or 2 days because the credit card we used for subscription was cancelled by our bank during the Target hacking.  Occurred over the recurring period, while she had 3 CREDD in her inventory that she didn't remember to use in time.
 
We've been here since Headstart, making videos, advertising where we can, etc.    Why are you "more loyal" than we are?
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Hey guys, let's pay some art and animation guys some money so that only a select few can have this mount. I'm sure the guys that spent all the time creating that for us appreciate the negative connotation its going to get for anyone but the 12 players who didn't lapse.
 
I know that if I spent hours designing and modeling something, I'd want as few people as possible to see it.
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Its bad policy and bothers lots of loyal players when they simply dont have to.
 
Really, if they had offered the mount to most players and given a title to those without the lapse, people would be a lot less upset.
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I never said I was more loyal or anything, I just think the excessive whining about a sub par mount is kinda ridiculous.
I thought I lost it, took me all about 30 seconds to get over it.
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			We're all waiting for more info on the Loyalty System. I really am wondering. With my recent 3 months of CREDD, my total sub time should be 8 months, so I should hopefully be able to unlock most of the Loyalty rewards. ^^	
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Ok. Ok. Hang on. Hang on. I've been a member since before beta, and I quit due to Carbine's decision to not have any holidays in 2014. I was looking forward to something Halloweenish. That and because Halloween is still my favorite holiday, and I was robbed from seeing the world change in shades end. Hearing about the lore of shades end. Seeing people dress up in shades end garb. Anyway, now that I rejoined in February, I am not loyal enough to receive that bug crawler looking mount? Is that what your saying?!
 
I would guess only 10% of everyone who had ever joined Wildstar would even get that mount. Perhaps less. ESO did it. I suppose I am not that surprised. But, come on! It's a giant beetle looking thingy ma bobber! I want it!
 
Also Carbine said they would not discuss the details of their Free to Play model when they made the announcement. So now people are talking about details as mods lock topics. Where did the details come from? I don't see no friggin post about it on the website. Was it another reddit leak?	
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Ok. Ok. Hang on. Hang on. I've been a member since before beta, and I quit due to Carbine's decision to not have any holidays in 2014. I was looking forward to something Halloweenish. That and because Halloween is still my favorite holiday, and I was robbed from seeing the world change in shades end. Hearing about the lore of shades end. Seeing people dress up in shades end garb. Anyway, now that I rejoined in February, I am not loyal enough to receive that bug crawler looking mount? Is that what your saying?!
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Well first off, I am not bitching. Just making sure I do not get it. Second off, I hate being the majority. Thirdly I love your fat beard avatar from South Park. Cartman kicks ass!
 
So about the info, the people mentioned a stream. That would be twitch wouldn't it? Anyone got a YouTube link to it? I do not go on twitch since they sold out to a larger company. I dislike the changes they made to the site. Also the fact that I cannot watch past stream on my tablet annoys me to all hell.	
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Subscribe with credit card. Random server-side issues with NCsoft/Carbine cause your account to lapse. How else do I subscribe DAWG? CREDD? Random server-side issues with NCsoft/Carbine cause your account to lapse. Just trying to be realistic here. The terms very clearly have a painful grey area that will grant a negative reaction. Anyone that has been here since launch is not going to successfully be included in "anyone that has been here since launch".
 
ITT a ton of people unable to see the point of the issue. Who cares about the mount? (Okay, some people do just kind of care about the mount).
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And they are therefor rewarding people who continued to stick with them despite their choices and mistakes with two exclusive items more while rewarding all the rest with other items.
 
Also i find it interesting to note what  i said before appears to be true, you have some arguing that they should get the mount due to just being inactive for a few hours, another for day or two and now you for a month. What shows that once the discussion begins about moving the line it keeps getting moved. 
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This very thread has posts from people that would be fine with the mount and not the title, with the title and not the mount, and even some that claim no one cares about the mount or title and instead its about betrayal or some such.  There's absolutely no way to win.
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I think a better comparison would be to perfect attendance awards given at school graduations.  Even if someone had a great reason for missing a day of school, please break your record if you happen to come down with the bubonic plague, they still missed a day and are no longer eligible.
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This year WoW players who had never let their sub lapse since launch got a statue in the mail. An actual freaking statue, in the real life snail mail, to sit on the desk and grin at.
 
Folks who lapsed, lapsed. Folks not there on day one... were not there on day one. If you're upset about no virtual robo-cube to run around on in game, think of how the guy who joined WoW on day 2 must feel...
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Actually, Carbine could have won by staying on topic and equally appreciating all players who bought the game and subscribed prior to the transition to F2P, as a way of giving the same deeply felt "thank you" to everyone who was willing to pay just to get in the door, before doing so became free.
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well... everyone who did so is getting a Caretaker DJ, song, and a Snolog disco pet.
I don't see why everyone's so bloody pissed about just one mount that's less useful than any hoverboard.
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Man this game is mirroring WoW so hard lately......
 
First the mount drama (fat cat, glitterkitty) from buying a box copy ------> WoW introduced a new in game cash shop mount
OMG why is this not in game!? OMG why are you milking us!?
 
Mount to subs since day 1--------> WoW gives statues to subs since day 1
OMG So I'm not loyal enough!? OMG I'm quitting this game!
 
I'm usually on skype with my friends while I play Wildstar and they play in WoW and it really feels like the same game sometimes....
 
To be fair though I had my own tantrum in here too >.> I'll never forget Carbine.... my 150 plat strain board becoming nothing but a 15 plat piece of wood. i crie evrytime. Oh yeah and the gold exploit....yeah....	
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I strongly feel that every current subscriber should receive the full reward set. Then, everyone's happy. Can't complain about that. Carbine is over-complicating this. Keep it simple.
 
Players with non-lapsed subscriptions still benefit from the "thermometer" reward system thing.	
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Apperently even Eliot Lefebvre over at MassivelyOP was unhappy about this news too. 
 
"I don’t think I can properly express how much I love the Ikthians in WildStar. The Ikthian Crawler is seriously something I would… well, not kill for, that’s extreme, but I’d punch a dude. Unfortunately, you all remember a couple of months back when we were all unceremoniously fired with no forewarning, and thus I had to make a choice that I now intensely regret – I made a choice to let my WildStar subscription lapse.
Had I known that I was choosing not to get a mount when the free-to-play conversion happened, I… well, actually, I probably would have done the exact same thing, I needed to save money. But it would have factored in." 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/30/wrup-goodbye-my-sweet-would-be-treasure-edition/#comments	
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Apperently even Eliot Lefebvre over at MassivelyOP was unhappy about this news too. 
 
"I don’t think I can properly express how much I love the Ikthians in WildStar. The Ikthian Crawler is seriously something I would… well, not kill for, that’s extreme, but I’d punch a dude. Unfortunately, you all remember a couple of months back when we were all unceremoniously fired with no forewarning, and thus I had to make a choice that I now intensely regret – I made a choice to let my WildStar subscription lapse.
Had I known that I was choosing not to get a mount when the free-to-play conversion happened, I… well, actually, I probably would have done the exact same thing, I needed to save money. But it would have factored in." 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/30/wrup-goodbye-my-sweet-would-be-treasure-edition/#comments
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I'm going to voice this now, because I don't think I said it before, I haven't voiced my actual opinion just my irritation with the whining.I don't think it's right to restrict the mount away from everyone who didn't keep 100% coverage.I really think this mount/loyalty rewards should be for anyone who purchased a sub+Box, CREDD.Carbine, it's a stupid mount, just give it to people. there's NO REASON to be so restrictive and stingy about it when you're giving it away practically for free.If you really wanted to gate an exclusive mount, you should have at least made it a hoverboard.But this isn't cool. I think anyone who has an active sub during the time the F2P launch goes live, that mount should be in their inventory.The mount is obviously everyone's prime interest, and I'll be honest.I *cupcake*ing HATE exclusivity crap.I hated it in TERA that the one mount I actually wanted was the one I couldn't get because it was some god damned exclusive.Exclusivity of items is stupid, and I hate when companies do this.It is against my own ethical* choices in designing an MMO to allow exclusives to be utilized, rewards or limited time offers.It shouldn't be an exclusive access thing.100% subscription uptime shouldn't be a requirement for all of the loyalty rewards.Just having an active current subscription should be enough. *
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eth·icsˈeTHiks/Submitnounplural noun: ethics; noun: ethics1.moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior."Judeo-Christian ethics"synonyms: moral code, morals, morality, values, rights and wrongs, principles, ideals, standards (of behavior), value system, virtues, dictates of conscience"your so-called newspaper is clearly not burdened by a sense of ethics"the moral correctness of specified conduct."the ethics of euthanasia"2.the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles.eth·icˈeTHik/Submitnounplural noun: ethicsa set of moral principles, especially ones relating to or affirming a specified group, field, or form of conduct."the puritan ethic was being replaced by the hedonist ethic"
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-snip-
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I think giving something special to someone who has subbed every month since launch is fine, whether they did it non-stop though maintaining a recurring subscription or have a few small gaps as long as they subbed every month. That's still going to be a rather small pool of players. Not as small as those who maintained their subs, but these are people who actively chose to reactivate their sub or use CREDD month after month, and missed a few days, so they should be eligible for the reward.
 
For those of us who took off a month or two and came back (as I did), the other special gifts are enough. And everyone will be getting something that scales with how much they've spent (through CREDD, sub or box sales) in the form of Loyalty Points, so those who subbed for 9 months will be receiving more than those subbing for 6, anyway.	
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I could not agree more with people providing feedback here. I don't really like exclusive rewards in this fashion. I think the anniversary rewards system is not only much better. But it's also been well received by the community. Even if I am getting one. It is extremely frustrating seeing such a grey area provided for people that used Time Card/Credit Cards/CREDD. They will not be getting "rewards" because of random things that caused their account to lapse. Considering some of those issues were NCsoft/Carbine service side. It only further fuels the disappointment.Another Example:An MMO company had a 10th year anniversary. They defined a 60 day grace period because it was 10 entire years. They even had all customer support ready to cover grey areas and reward players for any unforeseeable issues. Because there was no way to properly judge who was "loyal" within the criteria.Can we get a 48 hour or week long grace period for people who have been here since the beginning? They never quit the game. I feel like that's what this was intended for. "The players who stuck through everything". Or just call it a day and give it to everyone. (Who even wants this to be an exclusive mount anyway?)
 
A simple "Thank You" will do next time for the players like myself who never quit. These systems are only successfully designed for bad PR.	
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Apperently even Eliot Lefebvre over at MassivelyOP was unhappy about this news too. 
 
"I don’t think I can properly express how much I love the Ikthians in WildStar. The Ikthian Crawler is seriously something I would… well, not kill for, that’s extreme, but I’d punch a dude. Unfortunately, you all remember a couple of months back when we were all unceremoniously fired with no forewarning, and thus I had to make a choice that I now intensely regret – I made a choice to let my WildStar subscription lapse.
Had I known that I was choosing not to get a mount when the free-to-play conversion happened, I… well, actually, I probably would have done the exact same thing, I needed to save money. But it would have factored in." 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/30/wrup-goodbye-my-sweet-would-be-treasure-edition/#comments
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I've already posted my feedback in the old thread but since I already see players I agree with I'll add a quick recap.
 
I think the Ikthian Crawler should at least be made available somehow to players who subbed before the F2P announcement, possibly through subbing for the missing months before F2P hits. That way nobody will feel "not loyal enough". Alternatively, it could simply be made available to everyone through loyalty points (whatever amount you'll have from being subbed from launch to F2P). The players that actually subbed from launch to F2P will get it for free plus the title, it's the mount being made unobtainable to the majority of the current niche playerbase the community think is too much.	
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Oh we're throwing ethics into this now? Well hot dang that's what I've donated my time to for the past 9 months.
 
Here's my ethics on this then. It's not "exclusivity" it's a reward. I know my generation has it so twisted...because everyone gets a gold star \o/ even that kid who did absolutely nothing! \o/
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When did I start this thread o_o 
 
Anyways, I have to admit I'm already getting exhausted by this discussion, but I still think Eclips had the most sensible suggestion since the big feedback thread. 
Aka had a subscription starting from launch but only required 10 months of subscription. On the other hand, I like the idea of counting subscription before the F2P announcement. 
 
There are many great suggestions out there already, so it's entirely up to Carbine. 	
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When did I start this thread o_o 
 
Anyways, I have to admit I'm already getting exhausted by this discussion, but I still think Eclips had the most sensible suggestion since the big feedback thread. 
Aka had a subscription starting from launch but only required 10 months of subscription. On the other hand, I like the idea of counting subscription before the F2P announcement. 
 
There are many great suggestions out there already, so it's entirely up to Carbine.
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And hence why the method they are using to determine who continued to stick with them despite their choices and mistakes is inaccurate, and should be changed to include everyone that never left.
 
Those with missing minutes/hours due to how non recurring sub works, did not leave the game... Unless you think people went "screw wildstar! i'm quitting!" *few minutes later* "aww i'm sorry Carbine i missed you already, i'm back". xD
 
There is a huge difference between the people arguing about minutes/hours and the people arguing about a month, you cannot include us in the same complaint. One of which never left and was online everyday, and the other left the game. Carbine should be rewarding those that were loyal to them and never left despite their bla bla bla, and the first group of complainers are part of that, whereas the second actually left for a small period.
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Returning player here, my subscription started around launch, and went away while I waited for the huge number of bugs and problems with PvP and etc to get fixed.
 
Finding out the day I get back that there are rewards for having had a subscription early is neat.
Finding out that the only way to qualify for those rewards is to have spent money continuously on something that was broken post-launch is not okay.
 
Carbine, you have a lot of veteran players considering a return to your game. It's cool that you're offering loyalty rewards - it would be much cooler if the full suite was available to everyone that was around during the non-free-to-play phase for any amount of time.
 
Personally, I got a new job. I've been working on finishing my degree. Squeezing in an mmo on top of that wasn't an option on my budget.
Now that I have time to play games on the weekends again, it'd be really cool if I wasn't being marginalized because I had other responsibilities, especially since another huge factor in dropping my subscription for awhile was that a lot of stuff was completely broken (PvP especially so).	
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Ohohoho a seperated thread about this. Good Good!Well, as I've voiced my opinion before I'm just gonna try do so again.I am upset, not rolling around screaming like a baby upset, but I am hurt. Why?I have a lapsed account that was inactive for a few hours and I resubbed immediatly after I found out.
My intension was never to be unsubbed from the game. Changed my sub plan from 3 months to 1 month and easily distracted me forgot to instantly resub after I had cancelled it. Was it intented? No, I've never had one thought of leaving the game. All this time, from september 2013 when I first entered the CBT. I've been supporting this game and carbine, I absolutely love the work the game they created, and I love the community it brought too! No matter how hard times were, I've been here every single day.
Pulled in alot of people to try out Wildstar aswell, and no matter how many people laughed at me for still playing this 'dead, failed game' I've always been positive about it, seeying it's true potential. Spread the word on multiple social media and forums, etc,etc.So when I get excluded from being 'loyal' and not receiving the amazing goodies (love the mount and title!) it's upsetting, specially for the silly few hours that has cost me this.I'm a big collector! Gaming and art is not just my hobby, it's my passion. So for the love of lopp let me be upset!I find it hard to understand why people are being shamed for being upset about missing out on the mount by such a small lapse that was most likely not even their fault.And no, I'm NOT ungrateful, I appreciate it alot that they are making time to design and create such awesome free goodies. In my opinion the system is flawed, I think as Byonaa already suggested it would be a way better system if they'd just go by the people who subbed each month. And my coffee rush worn off now...All I can say and hope for now is for Carbine to reconsider their award system of this matter. A compensation of a few days grace would include alot of your loyal members for sample (even better so imo, the system Byonaa suggested). I understand a line has to be made, and there will always be people that are upset. But a small compensation goes a long way in this difficult case they've created.  	
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Apperently even Eliot Lefebvre over at MassivelyOP was unhappy about this news too. 
 
"I don’t think I can properly express how much I love the Ikthians in WildStar. The Ikthian Crawler is seriously something I would… well, not kill for, that’s extreme, but I’d punch a dude. Unfortunately, you all remember a couple of months back when we were all unceremoniously fired with no forewarning, and thus I had to make a choice that I now intensely regret – I made a choice to let my WildStar subscription lapse.
Had I known that I was choosing not to get a mount when the free-to-play conversion happened, I… well, actually, I probably would have done the exact same thing, I needed to save money. But it would have factored in." 
http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/30/wrup-goodbye-my-sweet-would-be-treasure-edition/#comments
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It is rather actually rather accurate since it sets a very specific requirement.
 
A line was drawn and since you use an usual method of long term subscribing you fell through, you did let it lapse at a certain time, how long or the reasons why are not considered since it puts the system into a grey area.
 
Perhaps they'll look at it in the way that they see if your inactivity was longer then a day or not, however this requires quite a bit of manpower and goes out if they can actually see in detail how long an account was inactive. so it might not just be unwillingness can also be not having the tools to looks this up. Either on an individual case or over a large group.
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			Ok, maybe this is the wording that would cover most of the fringe cases:"Any account that had active game time in each month from launch through the F2P transition"Still can't call it a subscription because that word means something some folks didn't do.Does this wording get to the heart of the matter for most folks do you think? DOesn't sound like an unreasonable compromise to me if so!	
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Ok, maybe this is the wording that would cover most of the fringe cases:
 
"Any account that had active game time in each month from launch through the F2P transition"
 
Still can't call it a subscription because that word means something some folks didn't do.
 
Does this wording get to the heart of the matter for most folks do you think? DOesn't sound like an unreasonable compromise to me if so!
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			I think it would be best giving all players subbed at some point before the F2P announcement a second chance of some sort. Being subscribed for X amount of months will still make players below the random new limit feel unappreciated. Having to have been subbed for every month will also make many players feel unappreciated. Currently Carbine consider being subbed from launch to F2P the untimate in player loyalty, an arbitrary definition as many players have contributed in other ways (websites/livestreams/telling their friends to play etc.). They're not necessarily less loyal because they didn't join at launch and/or have been subbed on/off for whatever reason. Wildstar is currently a niche game and so the current playerbase want Carbine to appreciate them all until the F2P masses arrive.	
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I think it would be best giving all players subbed at some point before the F2P announcement a second chance of some sort. Being subscribed for X amount of months will still make players below the random new limit feel unappreciated. Having to have been subbed for every month will also make many players feel unappreciated. Currently Carbine consider being subbed from launch to F2P the untimate in player loyalty, an arbitrary definition as many players have contributed in other ways (websites/livestreams/telling their friends to play etc.). They're not necessarily less loyal because they didn't join at launch and/or have been subbed on/off for whatever reason. Wildstar is currently a niche game and so the current playerbase want Carbine to appreciate them all until the F2P masses arrive.
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			Yes but the community response is clear, 1 of those 2 extra player appreciation gifts made the majority of the current playerbase feel unappreciated. People don't mind that the players that subbed from launch to F2P get something nice, they're mad because one of those items is highly sought after and will be made unobtainable to them despite being loyal, just not loyal enough in the developer's eyes. That this is a niche game and that the developer is generally liked for communicating frequently with the players make it even worse.	
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Yes but the community response is clear, 1 of those 2 extra player appreciation gifts made the majority of the current playerbase feel unappreciated. People don't mind that the players that subbed from launch to F2P get something nice, they're mad because one of those items is highly sought after and will be made unobtainable to them despite being loyal, just not loyal enough in the developer's eyes. That this is a niche game and that the developer is generally liked for communicating frequently with the players make it even worse.
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			They would still get the title as an exclusive and unattainable extra nod. It's clear that their current player appreciation plan make the vast majority of their players feel unappreciated and it would not have happened if only the title was exclusive.	
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			I will be soo glad  when  the flog gates open and we can have the free to play crowd here:) They dont expect to get anything special or extraordinary unless they pay real money for it. The F2P crowd gonne have a dramatic effect on quite a few ppl here;) Ppl here forget that loyalty has to due with your wallet's loyalty, only to love a game is never enough.	
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They would still get the title as an exclusive and unattainable extra nod. It's clear that their current player appreciation plan make the vast majority of their players feel unappreciated and it would not have happened if only the title was exclusive.
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Returning player here, my subscription started around launch, and went away while I waited for the huge number of bugs and problems with PvP and etc to get fixed.
 
Finding out the day I get back that there are rewards for having had a subscription early is neat.
Finding out that the only way to qualify for those rewards is to have spent money continuously on something that was broken post-launch is not okay.
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@Lethality: I'm sure the title would result in 30+ pages of nerdrage too...
 
@MadBlue: It's up to Carbine. They will probably announce soon if they're gonna stick to their current plan and reward the 1% of the soon to be 1% or listen to player feedback.	
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I think a better comparison would be to perfect attendance awards given at school graduations.  Even if someone had a great reason for missing a day of school, please break your record if you happen to come down with the bubonic plague, they still missed a day and are no longer eligible.
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I will be soo glad  when  the flog gates open and we can have the free to play crowd here:) They dont expect to get anything special or extraordinary unless they pay real money for it. The F2P crowd gonne have a dramatic effect on quite a few ppl here;) Ppl here forget that loyalty has to due with your wallet's loyalty, only to love a game is never enough.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
But as you yourself said... The goal is "rewarding people who continued to stick with them despite their choices and mistakes with two exclusive items more while rewarding all the rest with other items."...
 
Do you deny that someone playing everyday since the game went live, aka had a sub for the entirety of Wildstars life but dropped it for mere minutes, is someone who stuck through with the game and never left? if you do not deny that, then you can see why its an unfair system eliminating such a person, when the goal was to reward exactly what he did. 
 
A much fairer system would be to look at the number of months a person was subbed.. if it was 100% of the number of months the game was released, then they are eligible, because they never left the game, because they were loyal subscribers.
 
 
 
 
And here in lies my argument... Letting it lapse for that certain time (minutes/hours) does not mean i wasn't here everyday, it only means i didnt use a certain method of subbing. The system should NOT have this grey area, we're here to give feedback on how to remove this grey area, not to be repeatedly told about the grey area that we're fully aware of, but disagree with.
 
This grey area creates many bad decisions, a good example is something you keep mentioning:
 
 
 
Stuck around all the time... nobody can deny i was here all the time, not even Carbine... If they take a look at the number of days the game went live and the number of days i was online, it'd be 100%. Yet i am not eligible.. therefore, this grey area is leaving out people they wanted to include in their design but failed, people that were here all the time.
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This game has always been about segregating the snowflake population.  Now it is going FTP it has to try even harder to make sure the snowflake player base it originally marketed to will feel like they stand out enough from the normal non royal pleb scum.
 
 
This game is brutal for a collector’s mindset.  Simply not living in America means you miss out on event codes at the very least.  This game is all about not providing alternate methods of obtaining things.  
 	
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@Lethality: I'm sure the title would result in 30+ pages of nerdrage too...
 
@MadBlue: It's up to Carbine. They will probably announce soon if they're gonna stick to their current plan and reward the 1% of the soon to be 1% or listen to player feedback.
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			We won't know for sure until there is an official clarification, personally I hope the 30+ pages of nerdrage will make the "everyone who subbed before the F2P announcement will get a second chance of some kind" suggestions go through.	
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No, it won't happen.
 
If they cared about rewarding loyalty without pushing away the majority of the player base they would introduce a system in which every day you log in with a subscription you get points that you can spend on loyalty rewards of various costs.  Giving everyone a chance to eventually or selectively choose what they want to get at some point if ever.
 
But as I have always stated, this game is about exclusivity.  The point is not to "reward" you but to have many not be able to get something.  Wildstar has always been about that market.  It was made advertising to the hardcore who play to be separated from others visually and in game content.	
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No, it won't happen.
 
If they cared about rewarding loyalty without pushing away the majority of the player base they would introduce a system in which every day you log in with a subscription you get points that you can spend on loyalty rewards of various costs.  Giving everyone a chance to eventually or selectively choose what they want to get at some point if ever.
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Well, they are doing something like that with the Loyalty Program:
 
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I think a reward for those who subbed from day one onward is great. I've never cared as much about a game as I have Wildstar and I've been here with a recurring sub since launch. Reward programs like this have recently come into my mind and I thought the WoW statue reward was neat, and I think the ESO reward is cool, and they used a "total subscribed days" approach to their criteria for who to give it to. What I *don't* think is great is the idea that those affected by glitches in the matrix should even think there's a possibility they won't qualify for that recognition. If they've had each month paid for in one way or another for this entire time, they should qualify, especially if it was temporarily stopped for a day or less due to NCsoft's issues.
 
I've posted a few times about an instance in November wherein myself and others posted about our subscriptions mysteriously being cancelled on us without our requesting it. This was never explained, and some submitted tickets about it while others (myself included) simply added our subscription back and went on with our lives the same day we got the notification email about it. I remember thinking at the time what a hilariously bad bug it was for them since at the time, subs seemed to be on the decline and much talked about, and I was a little concerned some people might not even noticed their subs lapsed at all. I'm sure some companies make a decent amount of money off of people forgetting they're subbed and coming back to play the game later without ever cancelling their subs, so...yeah, having an unknown amount randomly cancelled probably hurt their pockets a bit. :wacko:
 
An instance like the above which is unrelated to my game payment setup or personal choice is an instance I believe is ridiculous to blame on me or anyone else affected by it. I'll of course be sending in a ticket when the time comes if need be, but at a time like this, with so many changes on the horizon, a silver lining to sticking it out and entering an unknown shouldn't bring with it worry and frustration like it seems to be at the moment.
 
Relevant thread:
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/117570-recurring-subscription-cancelled/	
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If people were just mad the players subbed from launch to F2P got something nice there would be more complaints about the title.
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			@MadBlue: And I do think that to a lot of the current players this is a slap in the face. They're part of an underrated game's community where the developer frequently listen to player feedback, yet only players with an unbroken sub from launch to F2P get a very desirarable item. This would not be a problem if not for the fact that said item will be made completely unobtainable to the rest of the niche playerbase who love this game and contribute in other ways than the unbroken sub, Carbine's current plan consider subbing from launch to F2P better than any other form of fan contribution. If people were just mad the players subbed from launch to F2P got something nice there would be more complaints about the title.	
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Ok, maybe this is the wording that would cover most of the fringe cases:
 
"Any account that had active game time in each month from launch through the F2P transition"
 
Still can't call it a subscription because that word means something some folks didn't do.
 
Does this wording get to the heart of the matter for most folks do you think? DOesn't sound like an unreasonable compromise to me if so!
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They're not mad that they're not eligible for something random. They're mad that they're not eligible for something cool. This happened with the beta test costume and hoverboard,. It happened with the Rest in Piecemaker and it happened, most recently, with the Pumera.  
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I don't find the system to be badly thought out i even explained why they can't simply start moving the line, for an exclusivity reward system it's fine. There's a bit of changes that can be made as in how they gather the information of how long a person has been subscribed to get a more detailed picture of it. 
 
There are plenty of people that disagree with the notion of something exclusive in this shape or form but that's not due to the system being badly thought out.	
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@MadBlue: I know, that was poorly worded. I moved the edit into a new post since the page count just went to 5 and I thought maybe you didn't see it. Now it says "if people were just mad players subbed from launch to F2P got somehing nice there would be more complaints about the title", which is more accurate.
 
Also my browser won't let me quote for some reason.	
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I'm not annoyed about the mount and title, i'm annoyed about not being loyal enough (even though I'm damn loyal to this company and game in general) because I decided not to play on launch day. There are extenuating circumstances why I had to make a new account (abusive ex boyfriend) and give up my beta rewards/pre-order etc. And just because I waited a few hours... I'm now not loyal. 
 
All I'm asking is for carbine not to call it a loyalty thing. I'm salty enough to make an image to back up my pure frustration :'c
 
There needs to be leniency or a change of wording for us poor salt monsters. Crabenie pls.
I don't care about the mount and title or the other transition rewards, I'm happy with just the game itself and the direction it's taking.
 
But please, come on.... look at all the people who have been on this forum since beta and love the game and are missing out on "loyalty" because of a few circumstances.
 
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			The comparison is coming from people commenting on other people who said they had let their subs drop or hadn't played at launch but were still pissed that they weren't going to get the mount and title. People like Byonaa getting lumped in with that comparison is dumb yes.	
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As a warrior main since launch I'll admit missing RIP sword was sad, but I didn't know about the game back then. Why would I deserve if it I wasn't even there to support the game back then.  
Sometimes I feel it's more justified than others, but my only problem is that I was here and I did support Wildstar through and through, but regardless we're still getting the short end of the stick for literally no reason. (This is regarding player appreciation, not sword) 
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I don't find the system to be badly thought out i even explained why they can't simply start moving the line, for an exclusivity reward system it's fine. There's a bit of changes that can be made as in how they gather the information of how long a person has been subscribed to get a more detailed picture of it. 
 
There are plenty of people that disagree with the notion of something exclusive in this shape or form but that's not due to the system being badly thought out.
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In my opinion anyone who has been part of this relatively obscure community before the F2P announcement should be eligible for the crawler, not because it's cool and people want it (though that is no doubt the case) but because it's part of a player appreciation program that make a lot of the players it's aimed at feel unappreciated, unlike the exclusive title. I didn't play in beta and don't think I deserve the beta costume. Or any of the other items I've missed. The crawler is different because I think anyone who has been subbed before the F2P announcement deserve it, at least a second chance of some sort to obtain it. But I've really said all this in my previous posts so Carbine should've gotten my opinion/feedback by now. It's up to Carbine to decide.
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			In my opinion anyone who has been part of this relatively obscure community before the F2P announcement should be eligible for the crawler, not because it's cool and people want it (though that is no doubt the case) but because it's part of a player appreciation program that make a lot of the players it's aimed at feel unappreciated, unlike the exclusive title. I didn't play in beta and don't think I deserve the beta costume. Or any of the other items I've missed. The crawler is different because I think anyone who has been subbed before the F2P announcement deserve it, at least a second chance of some sort to obtain it. But I've really said all this in my previous posts so Carbine should've gotten my opinion/feedback by now. It's up to Carbine to decide.	
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			Yes but the community obviously thought cutting off the crawler was going too far. Considering this topic now has its own thread I'm sure Carbine will announce where they're drawing the line soon.	
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I've been thinking over this a lot, and it is something that bothers me and saddens me a TON since yesterday.
 
I've preordered Deluxe and set a 1-month sub I don't remember when, prolly in march or may, anyway it was when it asked me to, maybe it was a few days before headstart I don't remember. I never let it lapsed and will probably sub until F2P, so point is : I'll be eligible for the mount. Also, like Abn and a few others, I'm a huge fan of Ikthian design, so I'll be very thankful and happy to get it and use it except :
 
My enjoyement of this mount would be very very very lessened, if not totally wasted, ruined, spoiled, wrecked, if I get it and people who were here for the whole 15 months but lapsed a few hours, or missed the first day, or one day here and there because of credit card problem, or because of customer service, don't get the mount because the policy is so cut and dry, so black and white, so unforgiving. Some of those people are gems to the Wildstar community.
 
 
As I said earlier, I think Carbine will try to find a way to get the back of those people. Probably a few days of grace period or another method. Many people should understand that maybe 1 month or 2 months lapse is too much for a grace period and that they're still covered, appreciation speaking, by the other items.
 
What I want to convey is that, in the unlikely case Carbine doesn't do this : it would leave a very sour taste in my mouth and I would, for the very first time ever, completely change my mind over how I view them. Well not the designers, the artists and such, etc, that I will always be a fan of, but the management : it would really make me feel like they're heartless, like they're not the cheerful, honest, engaging, feedback-seeking people I always thought they were, and instead are greedy and dishonest people that have been rubbing our back with false smiles and promises the entire time...
 
But I have faith, I really think they'll find a way to include people that lapsed for negligible period.
 
{| class="blockquote"
 
How do I know if I qualify for the full appreciation reward? I've held up C.R.E.D.D for 9 months and I'm pretty sure a part from 1st free month + normal sub I qualify, but not sure.
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{| class="blockquote"
You should modify yourself or ask for the title of the thread to be changed : the loyalty program is something else, the topic here is the appreciation reward program.
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I put a footnote as to the definition of ethics in my previous post to properly show what my comment means.
Because your usage of the word isn't equivalent to the intended meaning in the post that I am making. The term is generic, without direct context to any cultural reference, but rather to be specific to the video game subject.
 
Discussions of ethics happen in video games all the time, such as the idea of selling power, aka Pay to Win marketing/monitizing.
It is an unethical choice to put P2W itemization in the game's shop in my opinion.
Ethical discussions are important to games because it provides information for the developers, such as carbine to make the right choices in providing what is needed and wanted for the games community. This includes what people see as right and wrong and the choices made that could be the company trying to take advantage of players, or what is unfair to the majority of users.
 
I think it's wrong for carbine to put such a heavy restriction on a mount in such a way that people who upkept a sub for the most wouldn't be included as "loyal" subscribers.
 
 
This is an idea of ethical behavior and choices in VIDEO GAMES specifically.
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I had a huge write-up about the various people this affects and what they expect, etc. Scrapped it. It's pointless to discuss the minutiae and who is right/entitled/wrong/etc. 
 
The thing is this was supposed to be a PR win for Carbine and it is being the opposite.  It is not my place (nor anyone's on the forum) to tell anyone what they can or cannot be upset about.  But I know that this issue has divided the community and has achieved the opposite of what was intended.  People instead of feeling APPRECIATED are feeling UNAPPRECIATED. 
 
Lots of people care a lot more about a mount than pets/housing/titles.  And lots of people care about a word like "loyal" thrown around to measure their dedication.
 
This is a PR loss for Carbine.  I came intrigued about f2p, I came excited about the anniversary perks, I came excited about certain game changes in the last few months... I walk away with a sour taste in my mouth that a lot of people who were dedicated and stuck through a lot of Carbine's failures... are not getting rewarded.  How will they treat me if they treat their loyal fans this way?  
 
This was a stupid idea, Carbine. 	
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I mean really all of this is over a word used in the press release that called people who never lapsed in a subscription loyal.
 
The mount was a bonus for those players that have been subscribed since launch, apparently that is not alot of people form listening to the threads. 
 
Personally I hope they just scrape it and give it to everyone that way we can stop hearing about it over and over again.
 
F2P is a good thing, lets be happy we are going to get more players into the game and rejoice that the game we love can hopefully now make enough money to stay around a bit longer. 	
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@henzilla: I was not here at day one but I was here when we had the ghost servers, constant dead game threads on the forums and reddit, the death of the PvP server (which was particularly sad to me as I initially rolled on that), guilds merging due to lack of players etc.
 
In case Carbine are still wondering where to draw the line I'll try to sum up my thoughts on this one more time:
 
There is nothing wrong with giving the players subbed from launch to F2P something cool, but player feedback made it clear that the Ikthian Crawler was TOO cool to be gated behind a very narrow definition of "loyal enough" (being subbed from launch to F2P is currently considered superior to contributing through websites/livestreams/enjoying the game and recommending it etc.). It made the majority of players targeted by the player appreciation system feel unappreciated. Wildstar is a niche game and so pretty much every current player consider themselves loyal, it sucks to have Carbine consider you "not loyal enough for the best gift", especially when you feel loyal to the developer  as well, because they make a game you care about and communicate frequently with the playerbase.
 
This whole thing was very ill thought out, not least because of the players missing the requirement due to credit card issues, hours between resubs etc. Not giving the mount and title to those players would be disgusting. Not changing the current requirement to somehow (possibly through subbing for the missing months before F2P) make the mount obtainable for the rest of the players who have been supporting Wildstar, an underrated niche game that among other things pride itself on "the devs are listening" would be... disappointing.
 
I really hope Carbine fixes this mess and let players subbed since before the F2P announcement get a second chance.	
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			I had been a paying member from May 29, 2014. I had to change cards on Jan 13, 2015 and then Carbine changed my start date to Jan 13, 2015. It probably took me all of 3 minutes to change that card info, and I'll be feeling sick about that decision forever. 	
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{| class="blockquote"
I had been a paying member from May 29, 2014. I had to change cards on Jan 13, 2015 and then Carbine changed my start date to Jan 13, 2015. It probably took me all of 3 minutes to change that card info, and I'll be feeling sick about that decision forever. 
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{| class="blockquote"
@henzilla: I was not here at day one but I was here when we had the ghost servers, constant dead game threads on the forums and reddit, the death of the PvP server (which was particularly sad to me as I initially rolled on that), guilds merging due to lack of players etc.
 
In case Carbine are still wondering where to draw the line I'll try to sum up my thoughts on this one more time:
 
There is nothing wrong with giving the players subbed from launch to F2P something cool, but player feedback made it clear that the Ikthian Crawler was TOO cool to be gated behind a very narrow definition of "loyal enough" (being subbed from launch to F2P is currently considered superior to contributing through websites/livestreams/enjoying the game and recommending it etc.). It made the majority of players targeted by the player appreciation system feel unappreciated. Wildstar is a niche game and so pretty much every current player consider themselves loyal, it sucks to have Carbine consider you "not loyal enough for the best gift", especially when you feel loyal to the developer  as well, because they make a game you care about and communicate frequently with the playerbase.
 
This whole thing was very ill thought out, not least because of the players missing the requirement due to credit card issues, hours between resubs etc. Not giving the mount and title to those players would be disgusting. Not changing the current requirement to somehow (possibly through subbing for the missing months before F2P) make the mount obtainable for the rest of the players who have been supporting Wildstar, an underrated niche game that among other things pride itself on "the devs are listening" would be... disappointing.
 
I really hope Carbine fixes this mess and let players subbed since before the F2P announcement get a second chance.
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[snip]
 
This issue has divided the community and has achieved the opposite of what was intended.  People instead of feeling APPRECIATED are feeling UNAPPRECIATED. 
 
[snip]
 
This is a PR loss for Carbine.
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{| class="blockquote"
There is nothing wrong with giving the players subbed from launch to F2P something cool, but player feedback made it clear that the Ikthian Crawler was TOO cool to be gated behind a very narrow definition of "loyal enough" (being subbed from launch to F2P is currently considered superior to contributing through websites/livestreams/enjoying the game and recommending it etc.).
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Hey guys, let's pay some art and animation guys some money so that only a select few can have this mount. I'm sure the guys that spent all the time creating that for us appreciate the negative connotation its going to get for anyone but the 12 players who didn't lapse.
 
I know that if I spent hours designing and modeling something, I'd want as few people as possible to see it.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
This, prettymuch.
Suggested fix: Loyalty rewards for everybody that bought the game because all of us contributed to the game's continuity.
 
Let's be real here - most of the people upset about things like the mount are mad on principle.
After-the-fact requirements for getting cool collectible things are an amazing way to make people feel like they're being fleeced.
 
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Title for people with subscription during entire game lifespan?
Excellent. It's just text, half of us don't even see it, people feel special and nobody cares. Those who flex the big title are given a pat on the back and the acknowledgement that makes them feel good.Robotic, collectible, badass, otherwise unobtainable status symbol mount for the same thing?
I hope you have pitchfork insurance. 
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Let's be clear here. They're not mad on *principle* 
 
Some of them have already stated that it's all about the mount. If it had been a decor item, a weapon for the wardrobe, a title, no one would have batted an eye....but it' a mount. So they're on here...begging for it.
They're getting all these other things...except a mount...so they start flooding the forums with, "OMG Carbine I'm not loyal enough!?"
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Your position is not objectively wrong or bad. Carbine doesn't have to give players anything, and how they decide to doll out any loyalty rewards at all isn't something we have direct control over.
The point I really want to drive home is that Carbine's decision to draw the line where it currently exists is making a lot of players feel like they have been marginalized, and for people that are of the completionist mindset, this comes as both a blindside and an insult to their willingness to commit any amount of money to the game at all, because they've just effectively been told that their contribution was inadequate to meet an arbitrary, previously nonexistent set of criteria.
 
WildStar is about being a badass and jumping into danger headfirst with 39 other people with machine guns and laser swords - it's not supposed to be about who happened to spend money during some arbitrary amount of time as opposed to who did not.
 
Unfortunately, that's the where the line is for the mount, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
My suggested fix is, in this particular case, to just let everyone have the mount since that seems to be the primary point of conflict.
 
This is an opportunity for the creation of a policy regarding player loyalty - something that should exist and be readily accessible long before loyalty rewards are outlined or distributed.
Adopting a policy that clearly outlines what the requirements are to get cool upcoming stuff several months in advance would be a fantastic step in preventing this kind of thing from cropping up again.
Mistakes were made, there is still time to correct the situation, nobody panic, stay hydrated.
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Thank you Carbine for appreciating those of us who have stuck around and for those who are giving you some extra support by subscribing till transition.
 
Unfortunately when you did all your meetings about appreciation gifts you didn't take into account how entitled some of your playerbase would feel.
The attitude in this forum needs to change significantly. The word loyal is arbitrary and these appreciation rewards should be called gifts as they are being given free to those that meet set criteria. The mount is amazing yes, but if you left the game for any significant period of time and stopped providing carbine with the money to continue as a business you are part of why they need to go f2p in the first place. In saying this I am not going after those who have minutes and hours between resubbing.
 
I hope that carbine doesn't listen to the 20 or so people on these forums who feel the 6 "awesome" appreciation gifts aren't good enough for them when they packed up and left for large periods of time. I'm not targeting people who left for rl problems, that's just unfortunate.
 
What I do hope happens is that because the french community manager said that anyone who has not lapsed for a day will be entitled to the extra 2 appreciation gifts, that they allow those people who subbed with C.R.E.D.D. or had cc issues and only had several minutes of downtime not totalling more than a day to get these extra gifts...
Anyone that lapsed due to no fault of their own (cc expiring doesn't count if they didn't fix it within 24hours) should still get the gifts.
 
On top of the 24hr leniency they should up the start date from launch "day" to launch "week". Alot of people who could be eligible for the mount and extra titled wont have started playing till a couple days into that first week.
 
Everyone who is missing out on the mount due to days/weeks/months of inactivity should instead of crying that they aren't getting a mount be appreciative of all the other rewards they are getting.
According to Carbine the Ikthian crawler will not be available ever again which is great. But there is already another crawler mount ready for the cash shop that you may be able to buy on day 1. We don't yet know what our loyalty rewards will be and they may even allow us too purchase this other crawler.
Personally I don't think they will change the criteria of the appreciation gifts at all. As a lot of people have already said, once that line is drawn you can't keep moving it without further hurting the players.
 
This was not me saying I'm more loyal than any other, I am over people butchering carbine for trying to do the right thing and give a little extra to those who stuck around. Be appreciative of your appreciation gifts. You will be awarded for your "loyalty" with loyalty points and apparently there are lots of them.
 
Thank you Carbine for a great game and thank you for appreciating my contribution	
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I think it would be best giving all players subbed at some point before the F2P announcement a second chance of some sort. Being subscribed for X amount of months will still make players below the random new limit feel unappreciated. Having to have been subbed for every month will also make many players feel unappreciated. Currently Carbine consider being subbed from launch to F2P the untimate in player loyalty, an arbitrary definition as many players have contributed in other ways (websites/livestreams/telling their friends to play etc.). They're not necessarily less loyal because they didn't join at launch and/or have been subbed on/off for whatever reason. Wildstar is currently a niche game and so the current playerbase want Carbine to appreciate them all until the F2P masses arrive.
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			My account lapsed for like a day and i'm pretty sure i'm getting screwed out of the mount and stuff. You aren't notified in any way when your credd is about done. Please consider a 1 week or so leeway to avoid upsetting the real loyal customers.	
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Are these the same people who asked for the strain board to drop by 90% of it's total value and tried to rationalize it by comparing it to clearing out venue at a car dealership?
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/119995-strain-hoverboard-price-reduction-on-ptr/page-2
 
Will these people also ask for anything that gets rewarded exclusively to the top tier PvP players? I know you got one dude in there already asking for it.
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/125288-drop-5-season-15/page-6
 
Point is...these guys are everywhere. "Give to me!" "I paid for this game, I deserve this content." 
They'll hide behind whatever reason they can muster to get their ways and you just have to tell them, this is how you get it, now do it. If you want stuff handed to you, go play WoW (and I say that as a big fan of WoW.)
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Thank you carbine for the lesson about loyalty,i appreciate it. I won't gonna make the same mistake in my future upcoming mmo,for which i am uncertain what will it be. 
 
I am a collectionist,i try to get everything in the game or i simply don't play it. I always focus on 1 game only at a time,for the past year it was wildstar.
I have prepurchased the CE,have all the account inventory rewards...hats,rest in piecemaker,gamescom goodies,purchased 6 boxes on promotion to collect everything (6 because costume did not drop),got every item through promotions,rewards. 
Had lapsed account a few times only for a couple of days. 
I cannot watch a greyed out mount everytime i pop my collectibles tab,so i am leaving the game and i won't gonna look back ever again. Some people can call me childish for it,but my OCD is stronger,i wish i could not care about that 1 mount,but i just can't.
Anyway,it is time to move on. Wishing you all the best and bright future for both players and carbine.
Bye-bye.	
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If, on day one, Carbine had announced that staying subscribed until their transition to Free-to-Play would earn you a mount, I would agree with you one hundred percent.
My position is that the mount is clearly labeled as a loyalty reward, but the requirements for it were not public - it is thus a very silly idea to give it to some and not others, especially if you're going to label it as a loyalty reward.
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Right the transparency claim. It's common knowledge now that whenever a game goes Free to Play those who were there since day 1 are getting something....its happened over and over and will keep happening over and over. The "I didn't know" line is weak material. Muster up a bigger reason pl0x. 
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			I just want to know if I apply for the mount. Tried CS no luck	
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*snip*
Bye-bye.
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It is certainly a nice gesture (and crisis aversion tactic) to give your paying players something special when the game transitions to a free model. What is not okay is setting arbitrary requirements for who gets what without telling anyone.
 
This goes beyond "I didn't know," and stretches into the way that Carbine wants to steer their reputation. As it currently stands, the situation we're in right now is a PR disaster that can be fixed pretty easily, and everyone in this thread is a paying customer.
 
If we are to be measured by the amount of money we spent before the Free-to-Play transition even happened, that sets a dangerous precedent for how Carbine is going to handle financial matters in the F2P arena, and the implications of that are dark indeed.
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If on day one Carbine had announced that those who remained sub until free to play would get a mount....you do realize what that would do from a business perspective right?
Let's launch Wildstar with a sub, but let's tell everyone we plan on going free to play in the future.....because you know, them mounts yo.
Really.....this makes sense in your head?
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If on day one Carbine had announced that those who remained sub until free to play would get a mount....you do realize what that would do from a business perspective right?
Let's launch Wildstar with a sub, but let's tell everyone we plan on going free to play in the future.....because you know, them mounts yo.
Really.....this makes sense in your head?
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