Report 288

Report #288
Skillset: Night Skill: Longnight
 Org: Shadowdancers Status: Completed Dec 2009
Furies' Decision:
Solution 1
Problem: As it stands, Longnight is a skill within Night that contains a hefty
power cost of 25 shadows, 10 power for the Coven Leader, and a requirement of 13
Coven Members to execute the ability. In turn, this ability blocks the power
abilities of all individuals, including the Coven, from being used. One of the
main chagrins of this is that it allows for a side to permanently maintain a
meld without possibility of breaking it. The following solutions are
recommended:
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #1: Individuals within the local area effected by
 Longnight will expend double power when using power
 moves. For example, SPIRITBOND NATURE in Longnight
 would cost 10p instead of 5p. Abilities above 5p
 would be unusable in Longnight.
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #2:
[A: 0 R: 0] Solution #3:
Player Comments:
---[Xenthos on 11/7 @ 03:41 writes]:
I'm okay with this, as it no longer makes melds and such completely unbreakable.
Still affects everyone. Using it still requires 13 people from 1 organization,
which (at the moment) is feasible at times, but it's still very rare except
during specific hours of the day. As long as requirements are what they are it
needs to remain powerful, but... not quite as powerful as it is.
---[Nienla on 11/7 @ 19:22 writes]:
My only issue with reporting this is that Longnight has such a steep cost, and
that the current effect was pretty warranted given the steep requirements.
---[Aiyana on 11/8 @ 03:26 writes]:
I would like to see Longnight, being as powerful a skill it is, need 13 true
Night users in order to be used, as opposed to, say, a single night user and 12
Nightwraiths.
---[Xenthos on 11/8 @ 07:15 writes]:
In other words, you'd like to see it either 1) Be as overpowered as it is now,
or 2) Not even castable. Not ideal solutions, really.
---[Nienla on 11/8 @ 16:17 writes]:
@Aiyana: Uh. No. If that change goes through, Longnight should remain the same
as it is now.
---[Nienla on 11/8 @ 16:19 writes]:
Though a change like that shouldn't go through. Night users are not as plentiful
as one thinks, and to actually have even a few true Night users around is a
rarity. I still maintain that the solution above is the way to go if you're
looking to tone down Longnight. It's still powerful, as it should be, given the
requirements that it has
---[Zynna on 11/19 @ 23:25 writes]:
If the point of this report is to tone down longnight to allow the breaking of
melds, then we may want to consider only allowing 1p skills (charged at a double
rate or waht have you) to be used in it. Allowing skills up to 5p to be used
will allow for choke to be used in longnight, while simultaneously preventing
the instakills and main power moves from most of the other specs.
---[Xenthos on 11/20 @ 00:24 writes]:
It would not stop the low-power staple power moves (Choke is one, yes, but also
Lunge, Sweep, Assault, Crush for warriors, for example). It does stop the
"ultimate" skills though. You don't think it would be too powerful still if
people couldn't use any power skills over 1p in cost?
---[Nienla on 11/20 @ 04:26 writes]:
Making it only work for 1p abilities is really silly. Just make it double power
cost for all abilities.
---[Akui on 12/17 @ 04:39 writes]:
The genie in the bottle here is what abilities get cut out of the fight. Choke
doesn't, but cruicify does. Inquisition is stopped. I'd suggest doubling power
costs, but anything over five works, but is capped at 10 power, which would
avoid the issue. Failing that, whatever genie comes out of the bottle is
probably preferrable to unbreakable melds anyway.
---[Xenthos on 12/18 @ 03:23 writes]:
If 10p skills still cost 10p... eh, that doesn't really make the skill all that
worthwhile given its requirements, IMO. Lunge would be 4p each, assault 8p, and
crucify would be 10p?
---[Nienla on 12/18 @ 05:22 writes]:
Agree with Xenthos. Akui's suggestion would just make Longnight useless and
never used. I'm still maintaining that it should just double the power for all
abilities. Abilities over 5p cannot be used.
---[Akui on 12/18 @ 16:11 writes]:
It hardly makes it useless, doubling powercosts is a big deal. My suggestion
heads off the issue of "side A's obnoxious group skill works, and side B's
obnoxious group skill is completely blocked". In the case of crucify, it would
mean that, for example, the user would use it, and have to wait for a full 10
power to fire it again, as opposed to firing it, and waiting for 4. Granted,
this solution would "screw me over" personally, as the highest power skill I'd
be likely to use is a 5p instakill, and 8p assaults are terribly unappealing, so
I can see the problems with it. I just see a danger in drawing a line that cuts
out some "crucial" (poor word choice, but you get the idea) abilities entirely
while leaving others available.
---[Nienla on 12/18 @ 16:58 writes]:
You're also failing to see that Longnight requires 13 Coven Members, and 25
Shadows to utilize. This is an ability that should intentionally be powerful
given the costs to use it, Akui. I don't entirely think you should find the
prospect of 8p Assault's unappealing. It is certainly better than no assaults at
all. The double power prospect is perfectly suitable as it solves the main issue
of melds not being able to be broken in Longnight, while still giving Longnight
a strong sense of function and utility to make it actually WORTH the high cost
that it has
---[Akui on 12/18 @ 17:55 writes]:
You're not addressing my concern here about where the line is drawn and what
abiltities are still useable, while others are not. My comments non assaults
weren't meant as a detraction from the idea, but to illustrate the problem with
my own idea- an 8p assault compared to a 10p crucify- and to say that despite
that, such a situation seems perferrable to me than cutting out some "essential"
abiltites, but leaving others in. This latter situation creates a slew of
potentially dicey balance issues. I'm wondering if we can find a solution that
resolves the demesne breaking issues without opening a can of worms of allowing
some abilities, while wholly blocking others.
---[Akui on 12/19 @ 02:42 writes]:
Nydekion suggests lowering the cost to 8 Night users and 20 shadows, and
changing the effect to only prevent targetable power skills that hit a player-
so no assaults, inqui, cruci, choke, etc. Skills that don't strike a player
would work normally, so melds would be breakable. Alternately his suggestion, I
was thinking at work today that lowering the cost to some extent as a general
rule might make more impactful suggestions more palatable.
---[Xenthos on 12/23 @ 00:03 writes]:
I think the suggestion is fine as-is, really. Keeps a high cost, remains
powerful for that cost, but it's not omg-game-over.
---[Ceren on 12/23 @ 15:19 writes]:
I actually like Zynna's idea of 1p feats only. Allows melds to be contested
while still doing nearly everything else longnight does. Either that or 13 true
night users (yes I know, overpowered or useless, but given the lack of a similar
coven skill in Moon I kind of get the sense that Longnight is supposed to be an
amazing, shock-and-awe skill that rarely sees use. Could be wrong, just a
hunch.).