115570-toxic-communities-are-giving-us-poor-representation

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			Places like /r/wildstar on reddit are homes to people who do nothing but doom-say and otherwise make it sound like this game is dying when in reality it's just taking off. At least on the forums here we have moderation to keep the posts that criticize the game limited to constructive posts and limiting random rants. It's a shame that we really have no control over community sites like that. Is there any way to separate the official community from places like that? People need to know that this game is just taking off and that mmos aren't built in a day and that the actual player base is friendly and knowledgeable. I can only imagine that when they hear about Wildstar they Google the game and immediately see doom and gloom posts and links to toxic forums.	
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			Agreed. It's the people who aren't playing it who absolutely have to have an opinion who are doing the most damage. Don't even try looking at what the idiots at Massively are saying.	
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			Anyone who bases their opinion on a unofficial form isn't really giving the community a fair chance. Nothing is stopping people from posting whatever BS they can make up on reddit... Those kinds of people, well I'm not sure there's anything you could do for them in the first place.	
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Agreed. It's the people who aren't playing it who absolutely have to have an opinion who are doing the most damage. Don't even try looking at what the idiots at Massively are saying.
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Agreed. It's the people who aren't playing it who absolutely have to have an opinion who are doing the most damage. Don't even try looking at what the idiots at Massively are saying.
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I think the best way to combat what you're seeing on those other sites is to "counter-balance".  That is to say, without directly addressing the other posters or the negativity, to post things that you like about the game and put the positive aspects of the game front and center.
 
It's not necessarily a breach of integrity to refrain from paying lip-service to the problems that a game is having.  Let's face facts, the less-than-flattering information is out there in droves already.  So, you're not necessarily being unrealistic by simply stating "I like this game, and here is why...".
 
Posting positive things, without addressing the negative posts, is also a graceful way to let it be known that "the negative" is not "the only" statement to be made, and could potentially draw more curiosity from the greater masses of people as they are looking for something to sink their time and money.
 
It also helps to avoid the appearance that you are "white-knighting" the game and thus simply engaging in some irrational pissing contest :)
 
Just say "I like it, here's why:"
 
And when the inevitable detractors, whiners, complainers, and trolls come calling - politely ignore them.  Don't lend any credence to the crap that they say.	
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Maybe it's just the EU hours, but I think our subreddit is as balanced as our forums. You get a mix of hopeful, positive players as well as the critical, negative ones. I think both sides bring valuable discussion and opinions to the table, we can't grow and better ourselves without the criticism and without any positivity we can easily lose morale.
 
Other MMO sites and forums are beyond our control (especially things like comment sections) and you will get some players deliberately trying to "fan the flames".
 
I just want to make it clear that negative feedback and expressing concerns is absolutely fine. We need that stuff. But if there is something you like/love about the game, tell us that as well. It helps us know what we do right, as well as what we do wrong.	
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Chua will be counter-balance!
 
*jumps around the forum throwing flower petals everywhere*	
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I feel like the wildstar subreddit is more open and positive as well has better ideas and participation.
The forums here are too censored to voice whats on someone's mind really, It's a bit upsetting.
 
The only problem with the subreddit is that it's not segmented like a forum is and it's topics are too varied many of the times to find or post a dicussion that matters.	
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Maybe it's just the EU hours, but I think our subreddit is as balanced as our forums. You get a mix of hopeful, positive players as well as the critical, negative ones. I think both sides bring valuable discussion and opinions to the table, we can't grow and better ourselves without the criticism and without any positivity we can easily lose morale.
 
Other MMO sites and forums are beyond our control (especially things like comment sections) and you will get some players deliberately trying to "fan the flames".
 
I just want to make it clear that negative feedback and expressing concerns is absolutely fine. We need that stuff. But if there is something you like/love about the game, tell us that as well. It helps us know what we do right, as well as what we do wrong.
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If you guys want to stick your heads in the sand and claim that all is well, be my guest.  I want to hear what both the white knights and the detractors have to say, and I won't shy away from sites like Massively.
They actually have the balls to ask tough questions instead of just eating what they're fed.	
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Toxic I wouldn't be the one to say that, but I only visit reddit if looking for a guide or dev chats.  Many of the players I have had difference of opinions with I have to say are pretty respectful even in subjects they are passionate about.
 
 I have noticed the elitist points of view, but usually disregard that as just a small percentage of a dying mmo breed of players.  I don't blame the players for this either, but the games that feed these small communites of players w/pre release hype to pad launch revenue.  MMO's have proven time and time again that it's not healthy for the genre, and they have proven this by their success & failures moving away/towards over the last few decades.  You want hardcore PvE?  Go play a rpg.  You want esport PvP?  Go play a esport game.  Hopefully something great comes to this genre w/Wildstar failure due to its focus.  You can't please all crowds of gamers, and their is no need to w/other genres filling those roles well already.  Ratings and Hardcore have no place in the mmo genre.
 
Plus I did check out ESO and AA, and trust me this community ingame is waaaaay better overall.	
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Chua will be counter-balance!
 
*jumps around the forum throwing flower petals everywhere*
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The feedback of people who left the game could be pretty useful too
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The feedback of people who leave is completely worthless on a public forum... It's open to debate, opinion, flames, ect... If the dev's want good feedback on why people is leaving the only really effective method is a exit survey of some sort.
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Chua will be counter-balance!
 
*jumps around the forum throwing flower petals everywhere*
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			I don't understand why /r/wildstar's mods don't take a more active role in combating this.  I guarantee you that if someone kept routinely showing up in, say, /r/fishing only to say that they no longer fish and that fishing sucks and the people who are still fishing and having a good time suck, they'd get banned for not contributing and merely trolling the subreddit.  This game is our hobby and we'd all like a place to talk about our hobby without having to se the same few people making rude, snide, unconstructive posts all the time.	
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It's trite but true.
 
If you don't tell the devs what you like, it's subject to change.
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This thread is almost as bad as the doom sayers threads.
 
How about we talk about the actual game instead of starting a *cupcake* fight?	
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Anyone who bases their opinion on a unofficial form isn't really giving the community a fair chance.
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			generally, what the community is based around determines how "toxic" they are.It's not like a bunch of people just randomly formed some group to  invade wildstar forums with hatethe game is just very deeply flawed, the customer support tends to be downright insulting with their replies, they talked huge before release and failed to deliver, they're cancelling events a lot of people love, key staff seem to leaving constantly, overly moderated forums, etc etc etcNot to mention the severity of people with white knight complexes that tends to get worse as the thing they're "defending" gets weaker. Those people cause more damage to a games community than even the harshest critics, they prod things on so much that something that would have settled down quickly rages on way too longgenerally speaking you don't calm down a pissed off dragon by poking it with a stick and calling it stupid	
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Valid. The WS subreddit isn't (or wasn't) like that though. It's full of whiter-than-the-snow white knights who spent the greater part of the beta saying "shhhhhh don't say anything even remotely related to beta or voice concerns because you'll make carbine angry!" And then spent the months after beta crushing anyone who voiced a complaint about the game. Now, of course, they are singing a slightly different tune, which I suspect is mostly because they just can't ignore the reality that's being shoved in their sycophantic faces.
 
...they annoyed me.
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I agree, Vic. The game in a few months will be very different than it is now.
 
If Diablo 3 and FFXIV can do it, WS can definitely do it.	
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I agree, Vic. The game in a few months will be very different than it is now.
 
If Diablo 3 and FFXIV can do it, WS can definitely do it.
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I can't believe they aren't getting sued for slander.
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*in best J. Jonah Jamison voice* "It is not. I resent that. Slander is spoken. In print, it's libel."
 
Carry on :).	
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Resorting to name calling and other abusive behavior just because someone has a different opinion than you is hardly a sign of a friendly "community". Perhaps if Carbine actually bothered to give everyone a chance to express their concerns during beta, without getting pages of toxic replies calling them a "hater", "troll", "filthy casual", etc. the game would not be in it's current situation. Many of those concerns did in fact turn out to be warranted.
 
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