105497-attunement-killed-end-game-original-post-here-page-4

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I have to ask this again:  do you people REALLY think a huge majority of the player base is already capped and wanting to raid?  Just for giggles, let's say 5% of players are (very likely not even that, btw).  Wouldn't that mean that the lack of ability to raid lies with the PLAYERS and has nothing to do with attunement (which can be achieved in two or three days, a few hours/day btw).  I long for the days of BC WoW when most people couldn't raid for a half year because of truly challenging attunement processes.  This is nothing.  The problem is with impatient players and their friends thinking that ANY new MMO they purchase is going to give them 12 hours/day worth of content and a few million people all with copious amounts of free time and zero real life responsibilities to raid together.  It's an MMO.  It's brand new.  What are you thinking when you post this crap?
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I have to ask this again:  do you people REALLY think a huge majority of the player base is already capped and wanting to raid?  
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has nothing to do with attunement (which can be achieved in two or three days, a few hours/day btw).
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I have to ask this again:  do you people REALLY think a huge majority of the player base is already capped and wanting to raid?
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Personally i think the difficulty is pretty much smack on (for me).
Problem is, there are to few dungeons and adventures and the drops are horrible.
Why would i do a dungeon a few times when nothing of worth drops?.. before i do it 2-3 times i am already outlevelling it and my green gear is better then the blue (or rarely epic) drops.
 
Dungeons and adventures dont reward you enough to do them more then a handfull of times.
Besides that its mostly helping guildies do them a few times and trying to do them solo out of sheer boredom.
 
P.S. Attunement is just a grindfest. Like someone already said.. this isnt hardcore...its wasting time.	
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So, just wanted to drop into this thread and let folks know that we've recently put together a fairly substantial report highlighting the community concerns on a number of topics, attunements being one of them.
 
We've (the Community team) sent this on to several of the Directors to help make sure they have a full understanding of what YOUR concerns and complaints are, as well as a number of suggestions for fixes.
Just keep in mind, that doesn't mean everything is going to be magically fixed next patch. These things require discussion and it doesn't mean the dev team will agree with everything, or may have insight into technical limitations we (and you) aren't aware of.
 
Hopefully, we can get something sorted and a response to you guys but I just wanted to let you know it's being looked at.
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The sad thing is, MMO's rely on "casual" players to survive the f2p doom, and to me, it seems like most of the casuals have already left, leaving only the raiding guilds left to do what they do..raid.
 
What about the rest of the content? I'm one of those who enjoy PvE stuff, exploring, doing challenges, killing rares, crafting and doing random stuff.
 
My fear is that in the end, the only active people in this game will be the ones standing around the auctioneer in their respective cities.	
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I have to ask this again:  do you people REALLY think a huge majority of the player base is already capped and wanting to raid?  Just for giggles, let's say 5% of players are (very likely not even that, btw).  Wouldn't that mean that the lack of ability to raid lies with the PLAYERS and has nothing to do with attunement (which can be achieved in two or three days, a few hours/day btw).  I long for the days of BC WoW when most people couldn't raid for a half year because of truly challenging attunement processes.  This is nothing.  The problem is with impatient players and their friends thinking that ANY new MMO they purchase is going to give them 12 hours/day worth of content and a few million people all with copious amounts of free time and zero real life responsibilities to raid together.  It's an MMO.  It's brand new.  What are you thinking when you post this crap?
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My personal take on raid attunement pretending to be a training ground for real raiding:
 
"It's a key - No! Much more better! It's the drawing on a key!"	
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I hit 50 on my Esper and got crafted gear within a day.
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Of the few raiding guilds left in this game actually doing anything, all of them require you to already be attuned. Think about this before you ;post again, as it is really really hard for people to get attuned in a pug. I personally have literally stopped caring about doing anything outside of adventures after killing the first 2 bosses in the 20 man raid, then having most of my RL friends quit cause the games bugs weren't being fixed, and there was no relaxing yet rewarding content to do.
 
So I basically spend my time farming and vendoring things for mass amount of platinum (Already got a year and 3 months worth of credd) or leveling an alt. There is nothing left for me to do in the game that is fun cause PvP is horrible with how gear is done in that section of the game, and pugging for something to do is out of the question.
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Of the few raiding guilds left in this game actually doing anything, all of them require you to already be attuned. Think about this before you ;post again, as it is really really hard for people to get attuned in a pug. I personally have literally stopped caring about doing anything outside of adventures after killing the first 2 bosses in the 20 man raid, then having most of my RL friends quit cause the games bugs weren't being fixed, and there was no relaxing yet rewarding content to do.
 
So I basically spend my time farming and vendoring things for mass amount of platinum (Already got a year and 3 months worth of credd) or leveling an alt. There is nothing left for me to do in the game that is fun cause PvP is horrible with how gear is done in that section of the game, and pugging for something to do is out of the question.
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Most raiding guilds I know look for people with at least 5 steps of attunement ... which is fair enough... attunement can be done withing a couple of days so wtf.
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I'd say they had more time then sense.
 
Everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes hardcore vs casual but when it's referred to difficulty, usually its supposed to be just harder. Not drawn out and boring with 100 hurdles. Just the event itself needs a higher level of attention/skill/preparation to complete then otherwise.
 
So i don't see drawn out / mind numbing boring = hardcore, just a time sink applied to prevent progress and try to make it look like there's more content then there really is.
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It just can't possibly happen fast enough. Devs have shown so far that they need at least a couple months to solve any problem. For instance: Engineers? Still on top of the damage and tanking charts by a lot, No nerfs incoming. 
 
The ongoing joke is "better nerf Rampage" and it's true., The whole "devs are listening" thing is also a joke, and you're going to have lost 90% of your subs by the time you fix any of this game's endgame problems.
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There is another underlying issue. It's festering and growing and becoming almost cancerous...
people who finished attunes want nothing to do with that content again.
so people that didnt get attuned with the initial surge, have it tough.
 
because people that are going to run dungeons again, are going so they can get loot, which means trying for gold or at least fast runs so they dont waste time. They want nothing to do with people who havent run the dungeon before, they don't want to hold someone's hand because that means slower times and lost loot (the ENTIRE REASON they are there)
 
people that do run dungeons as stated above run with their own groups of guildies and/or friends.
i hear rage stories of pug groups gone wrong, because they want to do fast runs but end up not clearing even in the time needed for silver, and losing loot rolls. AND TIME (some dungeons take forever ESPECIALLY with new people)
 
this cancer is growing, as less and people even run the dungeon in favor of just waiting till people are raiding.
because not only is the loot chance for something that could be considered an upgrade crazy low (usually a VERY VERY MINOR upgrade of like 5-10 measley stat points)
but the time invested for just a chance on it is not worth it. They could just focus on learning the mechanics of the Raid they are attuned for and get gear thats better than vet dungeons if they get far. OOOOOR they could just go pvp and get the retarded BEST (IN SLOT) WEAPON IN THE GAME cuz for some reason PVP weapon trumps PVE weapon by a LOT. sigh... wtf is that shit
 
in short, the dungeons are being seen as wastes of time by the people who have run them, and by the players who need them to attune, they are seen as insurmountable walls.
meanwhile, the unattuned are left in the dust because people who they feel should be helping them attune are instead raiding, increasing the already large gap between guild members and friends. in the end, its just frustration.
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BRAINSTORMING TIME!
dungeons need to have some allure to people who have done them already, not some crazy low chance drop that is 10 finesse better than what they have already
 
some suggestion for future: (very flawed ideas, i know. But they have some spark of potential)
maybe add shortcuts or alternate routes or some sense of exploration
(kinda annoying to follow a route and be constantly alert you could pull aggro on a mob by accident and die because you cant break aggro)
its a DUNGEON, not a rail shooter in an arcade or a disneyland rail ride (like the pirates of the Caribbean ride)
add some incentive/merit to actually EXPLORING this suppossedly unknown place, instead of rewarding memorization and ignoring trash mobs
 
adding to the last one, could have a place where you need to split up to achieve goals simultaneously yet not be forced to huddle in a group and move as one.
reward class and PATH diversity with this idea. let them bring things to the table that could shave time off of dungeon clears or add loot
 
or...
add exploration only stuff.
go Indiana jones on wildstar!
maybe sneak past a sleeping dragon instead of walking up to it
add parts that are not combat, like stealing a treasure and transporting it
or triggering a trap and surviving the greatest death trap ever devised by the eldan
or becoming trapped and needing to break out as imminent doom closes in like a rolling ball of death
basically, add stuff that is skill based, requiring strategy and communication, which we have already. BUT MAKE IT UNRELATED TO COMBAT.
(man i would love to sneak past a dragon, steal its treasure, then run for my life as it wakes up and chases us down, peeling mobs off the team and avoiding traps)
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TLDR;
dungeons need to be fun, (not saying they aren't now, but they become mindless time consuming grinds)
and no real incentive for guiding newbies through their first times
which leads to people getting stuck at attunement
which leads to people quitting
which leads to game dying
which leaves me sad
T_T	
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TLDR;
dungeons need to be fun, (not saying they aren't now, but they become mindless time consuming grinds)
and no real incentive for guiding newbies through their first times
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Do not be mistaken: attunement exists because they need to make the content last longer, and that means adding various obstacles to overcome for the players.
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			Hit 50, spend 5 minutes crafting gear.  little over 2 hours doing dungeons... 3-4 hours doing WB.  Raid.  Dont really see what is so hard about this...	
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Uhm... considering it takes less than 2 weeks to hit 50? Yeah, I do. I mean, are we playing the same game? The leveling goes by in the blink of an eye and I didn't even rush. I'm a "read the lore" nerd.
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It can be done in a day. That is if you're lucky and group up with people who know what they're doing.
It can also take forver if you don't have a guild (or guildies are bad) or never get lucky in pugs.
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TLDR;
dungeons need to be fun, (not saying they aren't now, but they become mindless time consuming grinds)
and no real incentive for guiding newbies through their first times
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Hit 50, spend 5 minutes crafting gear.  little over 2 hours doing dungeons... 3-4 hours doing WB.  Raid.  Dont really see what is so hard about this...
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I really try not to be sarcastic, but… you realize you can put together your *own* static group right? If for whatever reason you can't find a guild, then make your own mini guild with players you meet in game. And do your attunement ALL TOGETHER. Unless *you* are the bad and expect a carry?
 
This is what players have lost track of. This is an MMO. It's specifically designed to need other players, and the content in WildStar is not designed to be done by random people who don't talk to each other.
 
Quit blaming others for your problems and solve them yourself… it's all very much within your control.
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Nope.
 
It exists because:
 
1 - It adds an additional tier of progression or "leveling"
2 - It serves to gear up players to get ready for raiding
3 - It forces players to become more proficient with their class in a team environment
4 - It forces your team to come together to communicate and coordinate as a whole
5 - It solidifies commitment and separates those who cannot commit
 
Stop whining about attunement. It can be done in all of a single day other than the rep.
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			Its completely possible to do it in a day, was all I was getting at.  Just for example R12/Hellrose on our server normally at some point in the day are up at same time.  5 bosses, and the boss spawns are mostly on 3-4 hour timers Its pretty common for 5-6 to be up at a time on Blood.  The dungeons arent that hard with even 3 competent people you can normally carry 2 crappy ones.	
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You seem to misunderstand my post. I would rather play with guildies and get them attuned instead of creating groups just for my own needs. I'd gladly wipe "a little" to get more guildies attuned.
 
One of the problems today is that everyone wants stuff NOW. To most people, except the few that only play these games to get the world/realm 1st raid bosses, there's no reason to stress with completing everything as fast as possible.
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But here is the thing. I knew this long before. I can do that without this "wannebe-tutorial" called attunement.
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To some extent, but you need more practice. Other than the world bosses, when would you have ever set foot in a fight with all of your team at the same time? The gearing process after running the dungeons so many times is valuable - you are gearing up weather your realize it or not, etc. It also is very simply a measure of progression… another leveling process, which is satisfying to complete.
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Most raiding guilds I know look for people with at least 5 steps of attunement ... which is fair enough... attunement can be done withing a couple of days so wtf.
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Seriously... people like this ruin the game.
Trying to rush everything and not even wanna try stuff.. just easy runs.
 
bah
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stuff
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The two guys ive grown closest to in this game canceled their subs tonight as our guild suffered its 3rd "mass exodus" of players /gquit 'ing and moving to other guilds.
 
Its a cycle of losing people that we invest time into getting them attuned but they dont have the patience to wait for enough of the other people to get attuned to raid, so they move to another guild where they hope they can raid sooner. There is a group of people in the game that can do the current attunement ( I have 2 attuned characters and am working on my 3rd) and another group that just cant do it, either because they lack the talent or because they lack the determination to put the effort and time in to learn the encounters.
 
At the end of the day, my 2 friends that ended their subs only wanted to raid. They put the work in and got their attunement and put more time in trying to help the other people get theirs, only to see most of them move on and with that my friends ability to raid if they stay in this guild. They decided to just move on to another game and to stop wasting their time here with this attunement process.
 
I dont blame them but i will miss them and my enjoyment of the game has lessened as a result.
 
This attunement process is destroying the game.
 
Carbine, you dont have months to address this issue if you want to retain much of any player base at all.
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This is exactly what happened to many guilds in Burnig Crusade during the time where attunements where still in. Guilds lost players because they wanted to raid and went to other guilds because it took them too long to progress. Players then had to push new members through the attunement process again and again to continui their raid.
Also there WERE time runs at the beginning of Burning Crusade Heroics, and they were just as hard as the Silver runs in Wildstar, maybe anyone remember Shattered Halls time run (save the captives from their execution). I didn't even make it to that step before it got removed , Blizzard noticed soon enough that people hated it and it damaged the community.
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The only annoying Attunementstep is the killing of worldbosses, they should cut it to 5 oder something like that.
I'm already halfway attuned on my second char, it isnt that hard
Furthermore, the 20s raid is "only" a Prequest for the 40s, you guys should keep this in mind.	
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This is exactly what happened to many guilds in Burnig Crusade during the time where attunements where still in. Guilds lost players because they wanted to raid and went to other guilds because it took them too long to progress. Players then had to push new members through the attunement process again and again to continui their raid.
Also there WERE time runs at the beginning of Burning Crusade Heroics, and they were just as hard as the Silver runs in Wildstar, maybe anyone remember Shattered Halls time run (save the captives from their execution). I didn't even make it to that step before it got removed , Blizzard noticed soon enough that people hated it and it damaged the community.
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 having finished that run regularly before i ever got to the attunement stage,  the  shatt halls  timer was only  tricky if  you had a  bad  combination  of   tank, cc's  and   healing. i say tricky with a perfect   group comp you didn't need gear or "skill' to do  it. everyone else  needed  to   out gear a  few of the mechanics to shave the 3-5 minutes from a normal run to a timer run.
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The incentive should simply be helping guildies, something that's lost on people.
 
I've guided guildies through veteran STL and KV, and although I didn't get much out of it lootwise, I still felt good about having helped them. They now run stuff with me daily and will probably soon get attuned.
 
Sadly, everyone only cares about getting their shiny pixels, so if there's nothing they need from that adventure/dungeon they're not touching it, even if other guildies need them to get attuned.
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