116384-buy-order-listing-fee

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Does anyone want to explain this to me??? I just realized that there is a Non-Refundable Fee for placing buy orders, and it is kind of BS.
 
I am trying to buy ability points for a reasonable price, so i have been placing buy orders for them. However yesterday I noticed that I was placing the order with a fee, but was not getting the fee back when i canceled. The listing fee is something like 1.2 plat, which means every time someone places a higher order than me for even 1 copper, I have basically lost 1.2 plat. That is very not cool...	
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			that is really weird is it a % based off of the total you are asking? i think there might be a reason to make sure people dont flood the market  but it being higher then even a few silver seems a little much...	
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			if i'm not mistaken it's 12%	
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			It is pretty ridiculous, yes.	
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			the fact that the buyer has to pay a fee is insane, i get the seller paying to list something but the buyer? wtf	
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			yea it basically discourages you from trying to buy expensive items off the CX. I tested and it is a 2% fee per 1 item listed, so if you make a buy order at 40 plat, you pay 80 gold for each listing. But since the item is in very high demand with very low supply, the chances of your order actually getting filled is very low. with the added listing fee, there is absolutely no point in making a buy order for such an item, you are simply throwing money down the drain if you did not notice the fee, which i am guessing many people do not notice.	
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			Why shouldn't there be a fee?	
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			Why should there? We don't pay fees to buy stuff off the AH.	
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Maybe the company has decided that since they don't have as many subscriber dollars as they expected, they figure they can tax the CREDD system to the maxx.  Lets see Nickel and Diming every single buy order for 12% is likely a lot of free Plat for NCSoft, free plat that they can turn around and sell BACK Players again for real world cash.  Treating the CREDD system as their own Federal Reserve...."What's that you say?  We don't have any cash?  Of course we do, we do!  We added our very own Wildstar sales taxes!  Just take it out of the CREDD! its our very own money printing business!"
 
Basically this is what is called "Double Dipping". 	
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			 I understand the need for money sinks in a game. This game has perhaps the best economy I have ever seen, which is very impressive and not an easy thing to do. There has been almost no inflation since the economy leveled out after launch. And I can *Kind of* understand the 2% listing fee. However in cases like Ability points it does not make sense.I can see 2 ways of alleviating this off the top of my head. They could put amp and ability points on the AH instead of the CX. OR they could set an upper limit to how much you can be charged. In most cases you are charged very little anyways, so setting an upper limit doesnt do much but prevent stupid things like this.
			
				
	Edited October 30, 2014 by BusterCasey	
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Maybe the company has decided that since they don't have as many subscriber dollars as they expected, they figure they can tax the CREDD system to the maxx.  Lets see Nickel and Diming every single buy order for 12% is likely a lot of free Plat for NCSoft, free plat that they can turn around and sell BACK Players again for real world cash.  Treating the CREDD system as their own Federal Reserve...."What's that you say?  We don't have any cash?  Of course we do, we do!  We added our very own Wildstar sales taxes!  Just take it out of the CREDD! its our very own money printing business!"
 
Basically this is what is called "Double Dipping". 
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If what the OP observes is actually true, then this fee model is broken with respect to unfulfilled Buy Orders. It is just not obvious to most players because they rarely, if ever, make large-sized buy orders (rather than purchases) on the CX.
 
The existing fee structure for ALL Buy Orders (fulfilled and unfulfilled) is the higher of 2% or 5 silver. The easiest solution should be all unfulfilled Buy Orders only have the second half applied, i.e. 5 silver. If the Buy Order is fulfilled, the usual fees are applied.
 
Explanation
 
Think about: the purpose of Buy Orders, which are not purchases or fulfilled orders or listings of items, is for price discovery and to improve liquidity (reducing the spread between Buy and Sell price). It is type of price request.
 
A direct percentage based fee, which is the same fee for an actual purchase, scales up rapidly with the price of the order, very disproportionately impacting buy orders that are close to the Sell price. This means the higher the listed price of the item, especially 10's of platinums, the fewer buy orders listed close to the Sell price no matter what that sell price is. With enough time on a given item, you may find that players are not creating buy orders on that item at all or the few that exist are listed as low as possible with respect to the fee structure of the CX NOT the price of the item. These concerns are not typical of the rest of the CX.
 
This defeats the point of having very high valued items on the CX since the whole purpose of the CX is direct price discovery with buy orders, not for sellers to have full control, unlike the AH. Thus, the OP is right again: with the existing fee structure, such high valued items should be listed on the AH instead.
 
The alternative, much better imo, is to continue to mimic real life trading systems, such as futures exchanges (which devs have explicitly stated is how the CX was inspired), by ensuring that unfulfilled Buy Orders only have a flat not proportional fee. It can be an unrecoverable fee on cancellation, to be consistent with the other types of fees on the CX, but it should be a flat fee.
 
As to Zoomie, no one is realistically talking about removing this fee or all the other fees that exist on the CX or AH. These are all necessary. We are discussing the specific (type of) fee that applies only to unfulfilled Buy Orders. These should be as non-scaling and low as possible for their purpose in the CX. In the real world, these exchange/broker fees correspond to the (physical) costs of the electronic trading platform associated with a specific asset class and type of contract, and they are relatively very low and FIXED compared to the price of a contract. However, in a game, there are no such costs. So, it is up to the designers to apply a fee schedule that is consistent with the design of the game system.	
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			Undercutting in the CX is a cancer for buy orders. I would much rather the fee were applied after the items are bought. It's just so irritating for me when I put up 5, 10, 20, 25 orders (totaling like 10+plat of buy orders) and coming back an hour later with ALL of my listings undercut by a copper. I understand the point of removing inflation but this is a tax on buyers that is applied each time they list an item.	
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If I'm not mistaken, there has been dev mention somewhere on these forums (sorry, to lazy to search for it right now lol) plans to reduce the amount of listing price.
 
There is also plans (may be on PTR now) to remove the buy/sell limit orders	
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There is also plans (may be on PTR now) to remove the buy/sell limit orders
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Think about it .. it is like a business you pay a service to post a need someone pays a fee to post their wares
 
at a flea market the seller pays for the table wether he sells or not. the buyers pay an entry fee wether thry buy or not.
 
it is like life and its 2% i believe not 12.
 
i havent done a buy order but a seller wont loose anything IF they leave it to expire. does a buy order expire?	
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Think about it .. it is like a business you pay a service to post a need someone pays a fee to post their wares
 
at a flea market the seller pays for the table wether he sells or not. the buyers pay an entry fee wether thry buy or not.
 
it is like life and its 2% i believe not 12.
 
i havent done a buy order but a seller wont loose anything IF they leave it to expire. does a buy order expire?
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