God Is Imaginary - Proof 1

== 'Proof' #1 - Try Praying ==
~~~~How might we prove that God is imaginary? One way would be to find a contradiction between the definition of God and the God we experience in the real world.~~~~
Agreed, though the use of wikipedia as a reliable source for anything already makes the quality of this article suspect. I shall leave it at that.
~~~~What would happen if we get down on our knees and pray to God in this way:
Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.
We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.
Will anything happen? No. Of course not.~~~~
Yes, of course nothing will happen. I agree. But the reasons Marshall Brain (MB from here) gives below are where the problems with reasoning begin.
~~~~This is very odd. Jesus makes specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus says in many different places that he and God will answer your prayers.~~~~
This is also true. Jesus does make specific promises in the Bible about how prayer is supposed to work. Jesus does say in multiple places that God will answer prayers. Yet it is not odd that God will not cure the world of cancer. I will show why below.
~~~~And Christians believe Jesus -- according to this recent article, "54% of American adults believe the Bible is literally true." In some areas of the country the number goes as high as 75%.~~~~
This is irrelevant. Truth is truth regardless of what humans believe it or not. Either Jesus spoke truth or He is a liar or delusional and not God, and therefore not our Savior and we should all just go play Dungeons and Dragons or something on Sundays. :)
~~~~If the Bible is literally true, then something is seriously amiss. Simply look at the facts. In Matthew 7:7 Jesus says:
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
If "every one who asks receives", then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If "our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him", then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.~~~~
Here is where the fallacies truly begin.
First, it is not logical to cherry pick passages in order to try to prove anything. Whether you have a pet doctrine for your denomination or you are an atheist attempting to prove God doesn't exist, this is at best poor reasoning and little more than a straw argument because it does not accurately represent the thing being argued against. At best, its deceitful, but I like to assume the best in people until proven wrong so I'll leave it at poor reasoning.
Yes, Jesus says ask and it will be given you...[because] how much more will your Father who is in Heaven give good things to those who ask Him? Yet when we scour the Bible, there is more to this asking than asking for whatever you want, no matter how good and selfless it may seem to you.
1. Our prayers must be asked in faith (James 1:6), according to the will of God. It is part of God's design of the Universe that man face consequences for sin. Cancer is allowed to be in the world that men be allowed to suffer so that they will seek God. James, Peter, and John write of inevitability of suffering, even of Christians. If it is God's will that we face trials in life to temper our souls, then praying for universal healing is praying against the will of God. It would be no less than praying for an end to death for all. Even Jesus, when He prayed in Gethsemane for release from the burden of the cross, ended by saying 'nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done'. We as finite beings do not see the larger picture. The prayer above is flawed because it asks contrary to God's will.
2. Akin to the first reason, praying according to the will of God, is the idea of praying in accordance with our needs. God perceives our needs better than we do. Ultimately, our need is spiritual life and for most, continued salvation after our immersion into Christ. The focus is on spiritual things not physical. This is how God views and prioritizes things. Paul prayed for the removal of the 'thorn in his flesh' yet God told Him that His grace was sufficient. Paul did not need to have the 'thorn' removed, though he wanted it to be. God knew that and left it alone. God answers according to our needs as He sees them, not as we see them. A lot of times, that means the answer is 'no'. In 1 Peter, especially chapter 4, we read about the sufferings of the Christians. God allowed them to suffer physically, even though they were his children. His focus was on spiritual things. Trials in this life refine us like metal in a fire. We grow more through conflict and suffering than when all is well. God did not remove the suffering at that time because it was not the best thing for the church that He do so. The martyrs under the altar cried out “how long?” and God said not yet. Understanding God’s will, His purpose for creation, is paramount to understanding how and when prayer is answered. To argue that God does not answer prayer simply because suffering remains in spite of what Christians might pray is not a sound argument. It’s simply ignorance on the part of the arguer.
3. The third flaw in a prayer of this nature is a bit deeper and I know that a lot of denominations of 'Christianity' will disagree with this point. However, it is Biblical and powerful. God answers prayer today providentially, not miraculously. To instantaneously cure cancer everywhere all at once would be a miracle. The time of miracles has ended. As most of our needs center around our journey to Heaven, prayers are answered through our following of God's pattern. An example off the top of my head is my dad praying for my mom to be saved after they married (she was not a Christian at the time). God did not zap Mom and suddenly she was saved because of Dad's prayer. Dad lived according to God's word, with patience and diligence, and much instruction, Dad converted Mom. His prayer was answered providentially because Dad was living according to God's word. The power of prayer is not miraculous. It is the mind of man speaking to the Mind of God through His Son. The power our minds have over physical reality is a powerful thing. The very act of praying in faith itself exerts influence over our bodies, boosting our ability to heal naturally. Like I said, this could get long, so I'll just assert this point for now and expand it for those interested. Miraculous healing only existed while the NT was being written and only to confirm the teachings of those doing the healing as being from God. Miracles were not themselves the producer of faith (Rom. 1:16; 10:17). Once the Bible was fully revealed and written down, that is to say, the system of faith was once and for all delivered to the saints/Christians (Jude 3), there was no more need for the partial, childish, scaffolding of miracles (1 Cor. 13). They vanished away.
4. The last flaw in the prayer is that such a prayer would be prayed in order to 'test' God. No matter what other things were said about the nature of the people praying, the prayer itself would only be prayed by those seeking to test God. 'God, if you are really real, we know you can cure all the cancer in the world, so please, cure all the cancer so we can continue to believe in you (and so our atheist friend MB will believe, too)'. This is not a prayer in faith. It is a prayer of doubt and ignorance of God's purpose for the world.
So much of the argument presented below is addressed because MB does not give us the full picture of prayer. It must be prayed in line with the authority of Jesus, with the will of God, in faith, according to our needs, with an understanding that God does not take away all suffering or trials we face, and with an understanding of the time period this was written in.
For the sake of space, I will delete most of the repeated arguments, but I do want to single out one specific example of bad contextual reasoning.
~~~~In John chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, Jesus tells all of us just how easy prayer can be:
"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." [ref]
Look at how direct this statement is: "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it." This is the "Son of God" speaking. Have we taken him "too literally?" No. This is a simple, unambiguous statement. Have we taken his statement "out of context?" No - Jesus uses the word anyone. Yet Jesus' statement is obviously false. Because when we ask God to cure cancer tonight, nothing happens.~~~~
The context of John 14-17 is Jesus talking to 11 of the Apostles right before His crucifixion. He is preparing them for the establishment period of the church. This period existed from the Cross where the church was founded to the time when all OT prophecy was concluded and the NT was fully delivered. In other words, roughly the latter portions of the 1st Century AD. The greater works of those who came after the Apostles was converting folks using the power of the fully revealed gospel. It was greater than miracles because the gospel is greater than miracles, and faith built on the full gospel is greater than on a partially revealed one.
We see that this passage was literally fulfilled all throughout Acts. They healed, they spoke in foreign languages never learned, they silenced volatile enemies, raised the dead, and any number of things needed at the time to confirm the Word. Jesus therefore did not lie. But Jesus, through Paul, also said this time would end. As I outlined above, it ended when its purpose was fulfilled. Now, God only answers through providence in accordance with the overall purpose and design of the universe.
~~~~Understanding the Rationalizations
A favorite Christian rationalization for why God does not answer our prayer to eliminate cancer is because "it would take away free will." The logic: If you pray and God answers your prayer, then God would have revealed himself to you, and you would know that God exists. That would take away your free will to believe in him. Of course, if this is true, then by default all of Jesus' statements about prayer in the Bible are false. It means that God cannot answer any prayer. Also, why is a God who must remain hidden like this incarnating himself and writing the Bible?~~~~
This is hopefully a very poor straw man. It is an awful counter argument as to why God will not cure all the cancer in the world. God did not take away free will when He performed miracles during the first century. Why would it do so now?
His rebuttal is equally as nonsensical because it completely ignores the ability of an omnipotent God to answer prayers providentially.
~~~~"You need to understand what Jesus was saying in the context the first century civilization in which he was speaking..."~~~~
This is not only a valid rebuttal, its true of ANY historical text, inspired or not. That MB presents this as wrong thinking shows his own ignorance about textual criticism and interpretation.
~~~~"When Jesus talked about 'moving a mountain', he was speaking metaphorically. When someone says, 'it is raining cats and dogs,' no one takes him literally. Jesus was using a figure of speech rather than speaking literally..."~~~~
There is actually a lot of merit to this line of reasoning. Do I think an apostle or first century Christian could have moved a literal mountain miraculously if there was a need? Sure. No reason not to, though we have no example of them doing so. MB's two flaws here are that 1) this was limited by all the things I listed above including being limited to a brief time period for a specific purpose, and 2) he doesn't understand the Bible as a whole. During the time the church was being set up, the Christians literally did move mountains, which according to the OT were domains or kingdoms (e.g. Daniel 2). The Jewish state was completely removed from the scene and much of the Roman empire was converted. So yes, speaking in the well known apocalyptic terms first given in the OT, they did move mountains and this is easily what Jesus was speaking of here rather than literal giant piles of rock.
~~~~God is not a thing. He is a being. He has a will. He has desires. He relates to people. He has personality traits. Prayer is a fancy word for talking to God. God, who knows everything, even before we say it, knows the difference between our thoughts and wishes, and when we are actually addressing him. He hears our prayers and responds. His responses are based on his personal decisions. We cannot predict how he will respond to our prayers... [ref]
The primary problem with these rationalizations is that they miss the point. The fact is that God never answers any prayers, as discussed here.~~~~
The flaw here is the assumption and subsequent baseless assertion that God never answers prayers. Just because they aren't answered the way a faithless atheist says they should be, doesn't mean they aren't answered at all. He should at least attempt to better understand how prayer and God operate before making this case. It would help a great deal if so-called Christians would do the same.
~~~~Going one step further, the problem is that all of these rationalizations miss two other important points:
God is supposed to be an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect being.
The statement, "Nothing will be impossible for you", along with the other Bible verses quoted above, are false. The fact is, lots of things are impossible for you.
If a perfect being is going to make statements about how prayer works in the Bible, then three things are certain: 1) He would speak clearly, 2) he would say what he means, and 3) he would speak the truth. That is what "being perfect" is all about. A perfect, all-knowing God would know that people would be reading the Bible 2,000 years later, and therefore he would not use first-century idioms (he would say what he means). He would know that normal people will be reading the Bible and interpreting it in normal ways, so he would speak in such a way as to avoid mis-interpretation (he would speak clearly). ~~~~
This is nothing more than a man holding God up to the man's own standard of what he thinks God should be like. God did speak clearly, but sometimes people are hard of hearing. A HUGE part of that comes in not understanding the Bible as a complete whole. This is a problem enhanced by the relative ignorance of a lot of those claiming to be Christians who also do not understand the Bible holistically.
God does speak clearly, says what He means, and speaks the truth.
Apart from that, the accusation that a perfect God knowing people 2000 years later would be reading the Bible and therefore would not write in first-century idioms is simply an absurd accusation. It is based in the ignorance of how any text should be understood. It’s like saying that Thomas Jefferson should have realized that America would be around for more than just the 1700’s and so he should not have written it to where it was so hard to understand. God used first century idioms and ancient Hebrew symbols because that was the time period in which Jesus was sent to die for us. That was the language and culture in which those events transpired. It’s is sheer arrogance to presume that any text written in the past should have been written for our time. What about 2000 years from now when all the languages will have changed and the idioms will be more different still?
Instead of being a lazy scholar looking only to discredit what he doesn’t want to believe, MB should take the time to understand the Old Testament in order to more fully understand the New Testament. If you are going to reject something, at least know what it is that you are rejecting! In the OT, the symbols and idioms are explained explicitly. You don’t have to guess. And guess what, it’s not all that hard. I know, because I’ve taught it to high schoolers in Bible classes for more than two decades and they get it easy enough. I certainly had no problems understanding even at the age of 10.
~~~~He would know that when you say, "Nothing will be impossible for you", that what it means is, "Nothing will be impossible for you" and he would make sure that the statement "Nothing will be impossible for you" is accurate (he would speak the truth). If God says it, it should be true -- otherwise he is not perfect.~~~~
Just because MB doesn’t understand or accept what God meant when He said this, doesn’t mean that God is imperfect or that God did not say what He meant. Again, MB is holding God to a personal standard and MB is not the standard of anything to anyone but himself. Within the first century, when miracles were still being performed, there is no indicated limitation on what miracles could be performed. MB simply assumes that 1) miracles had limitations in the 1st Century (within the Bible story) and 2) that miracles are supposed to still exist today according the the Bible. He believes the latter because the majority of ‘Christians’ ignorantly believe the latter. And so MB says:
~~~~Unfortunately, the fact is that thousands of things are impossible for you no matter how much you pray,~~~~
Shifting the context from the first century when the church was being established to the 21st century when the mature church no longer has need of such childish things as miracles.
~~~~ and no one (including Jesus) has ever moved a mountain.~~~~
So says MB.
~~~~In order to see the truth, you need to accept the fact that all of the above verses are wrong. The fact is, God does not answer prayers. The reason why God does not answer your prayers is simple: God is imaginary.~~~~
So to close, MB’s argument here is faulty because he does not understand the nature of prayer, how it coincides with the will of God and His ultimate goal of reconciling sinners and having an eternal relationship with His creation, man, nor does MB understand how prayer is answered today. He seeks after a sign, but won’t accept the multitude of signs already given him. Instead, like a petulant child, he demands that God come down and convert MB personally.
It doesn’t work like, MB, and God never said it did.
In Truth and Love.