109284-your-opinons-of-the-state-of-the-gameand-its-future-page-3

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Thought I would pipe in as well as this is the dedicated thread which the devs are choosing not to shut down. Yes, there is a lot of doom and gloom on the forums and I am fearful the game is dying. And I find this devastating as I love this game and I feel it had so much potential to be something amazing. With that being said here is my list:
 
Good
1) My guild, the people- I play on Evindra, perhaps the last bastion of joy and optimism in Wildstar. Great community and I am blessed to be in an awesome, active guild. 
2) Art style - Love everything about the design, animations, and look of the game
3) Humor - cheeky and irreverent just the way I like it.
4) Characters and Lore
5) Challenge
6) Music. Jeff knocked it out of the park. 
 
Bad
1) Lack of developer communication. Not to say the devs do not communicate with it's playerbase, the issue is they are extremely selective on what they are communicating choosing to ignore the most glaring issues and focusing on things which, to a lot of players, don't really matter.
I follow a lot of the devs on twitter and social media. And from what I can tell, in most of the Twitter posts the community team still seem to be celebrating the game as though it was a huge success, and giving each other high fives and pats on the back. Empty servers and cancerous forums speak otherwise. And maybe the game was a success, perhaps they earned their money back in box sales and they are calling it a day (as evidenced by the reneg on the consistent monthly content)
2) Linear leveling. Wow had several routes to 50 with several different zones to choose from as you level through the ranks. Wildstar forces you to progress in one direction from what I can tell. Awesome the first go around, however, as I level up my alts I am dreading doing certain zones again.
3) Bugs and optimization - nothing really needs to be said here
4) Empty servers - need to share servers or merge.. ASAP
5) Terrible customization options - dye system blows. We do not have a barber shop or char recustomization (paid or with in game currency), I recently deleted and rerolled a toon which I had leveled to 26 because there were several things I didn't like about her appearance. That really should not be necessary. Dye prices are ridiculously high.
6) Terrible AH. Running a search on certain items is fruitless.
7) PVP is broken beyond repair
 
What's keeping me in the game so far is my guild and the thriving RP community on Evindra, honestly, otherwise I would have been splittsville weeks ago.
 
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I loved this game from the first time I saw a preview of it, in 2011. Now, having played through from the very get-go... I'm sad for it. I still like it, quite a bit; I love the humor, the character concepts, the lore, the housing...etc..
 
But it is tedious and difficult. It is riddled with bugs that never seem to be addressed. Many servers are absolute ghost towns; and just as many seem to have 0 economy.
 
As much as I want to still be enjoying it... I'm kind of not. I'm currently debating on cancelling my sub for a while, honestly.
 
The game is lovely and it has great potential, but the devs don't seem to completely realize that, or even what they should be doing in order to bring that potential out into the open. I am normally not a *doom and gloom* sort of person, not by a long shot, but I fear this game will be gone in under a year, if the devs don't wake up and make some (possibly difficult) changes. 	
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As much as I want to still be enjoying it... I'm kind of not. I'm currently debating on cancelling my sub for a while, honestly.
 
 
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Though I'm not 100% on board with everything said here, I agree with most of it.  WoW became the game we thought we all wanted, but isn't the game we want.  Wildstar tried to make the game we wanted, and most of us are agitated that it isn't what we think we want.
 
People started and hated the packed servers, so they finally caved and gave us more.  Then, it was leveling, tons of posts about how leveling itself was a boring timegate and should be done away with.  Then it was that attunement shouldn't exist.  Now it's gearing.  It's like people started playing this MMORPG specifically to skip ahead to the very end and play that.  That isn't really the strength of an MMORPG on any level.  As the referenced article stated, we get to the end ASAP to play the endgame game, skipping the entire leveling and gearing process.  That's what made these games so much fun to play.  It's why, even as people call EVE Online an anomaly and even I point out its numerous functional flaws, it survives and thrives because it gets it.  MMORPGs are at their most fun when you are getting together with people and improving your characters.
 
It's the one truth about MMORPGs we simply fail to realize.  That journey is what we really want, deep down.  People keep wanting to not run into hurdles, to not have to play to win, to not have to grind.  They want to be at the end as fast as possible, not realizing that once you're there, the game is over until they put in more content.  And the one thing that hurts these games most is the lack of socialization, the thing that made playing these games better than sitting home alone with yourself in Diablo.  Doing hard things with friends, going on an epic journey with plenty of trials in the way, it's what's made group RPG games the best since early book game days in the 70s.  The re-enactment of the journey of the Fellowship to Mordor that founded a culture is lost as MMORPGs become more like normal games.
 
That's what we've lost.
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These are some wise words. My only current problem with WS is that it gets a bit lonely while leveling up. But apart from that I`m having a great time. And even if I just play it for three months, that`s three months of absorbing game time. When was the last time a single player triple A gave that much for such a reasonable price? But for some reason, modern MMORPG players feels it`s OK to resort to abuse and tantrums just as soon as they hit a wall of some sort, no matter how much entertainment they got out of their $40 on the way to it.
If I quit WS in a bit I`ll still be glad I played it, because it`s a nice game by anybody`s standards. Hell, 20 years ago nobody could ever have imagined that something like it would one day be possible. Yet here we are complaining that it`s not perfect enough for us. It`s all very depressing.
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At least as far as my own post goes... I love the changes that differentiates the actual game play from WS to WoW. Telegraph thing was brilliant imo! I'm ONLY talking about a pvp reward system. That isnt a fundamental part of gameplay but is a HUGE part of a game for pvpers. People on the whole do NOT want massive gear gaps! And they do NOT want an arena experience where someone can purposefully trash their rating only to use the massive gear gap to explode low rated pvpers and force said people to pay to get a high rating. WoW solved this! It isnt a fundamental part of actual pvp fighting and WS should have stolen  the system. It took WoW years to perfect their reward system. Any new pvp game should largely follow their system.
 
I believe if WS had more open world pvp battle points of interest it would be immensely popular and take pvp in a great new direction away from only having sandbox flavored arena/battleground experience. At least I know ppl loved open world pvp in WS even without having specific points of interest . There is much WS could do to further differentiate themselves from WoW. But in regards to arena/bg rewards... yeah they should have stolen WoWs system. It was done right.
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I've quit after my first month of playing (just used my credd because I was unsure when it was going to expire). Quit because I didn't progress after level 50. The things I was able to do I can sum up in one word : dailies, a rather boring thing.
 
Not coming back either.	
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I've quit after my first month of playing (just used my credd because I was unsure when it was going to expire). Quit because I didn't progress after level 50. The things I was able to do I can sum up in one word : dailies, a rather boring thing.
 
Not coming back either.
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I've quit after my first month of playing (just used my credd because I was unsure when it was going to expire). Quit because I didn't progress after level 50. The things I was able to do I can sum up in one word : dailies, a rather boring thing.
 
Not coming back either.
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			Keep defending the pathological unbalanced levels of RNG in this game and you will end up playing a solo RPG. It conflates complexity with randomness and signals complete ignorance abou human psychology, reward and motivation. People are tired of this ignorant game design.	
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The daily zones got boring.  You grind through the same quests for a couple hours.  Every day?  Ugh.
 
Seriously, stuff like the CB quest where you target paint boats.  Boring as all heck, 5 seconds of cast bar, then some little streaks land on the boat for 5 seconds while it recharges.  Wow.  Oh, and do it 10 times.  The highlight of this quest is the random guys you have to kill going down the coast, because there's never 10 boats nearby.
 
I've done them a few times, and by the time I finish ONE zone, I'm glad it's over.  By the time I finish two, I'm about done.  Head over to Blighthaven to **WAIT** for Scorch to spawn, or go bash my head on the tree, or go kill the "5-man" boss yet again?  Yeah, I'm done for the night.  Too burned out on WS for an Adventure or Dungeon.
 
I have, literally, over 450 games on Steam.  Blame Humble Bundle and Steam sales.  I can find something fun.  Space Engineers is a buggy, creative, and kinda awesome mess of an early-access at the moment, my latest thing to mess with.  I just find myself with no desire to bash my head on boring endless dailies when my time is limited and there are so many other options.	
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Keep defending the pathological unbalanced levels of RNG in this game and you will end up playing a solo RPG. It conflates complexity with randomness and signals complete ignorance abou human psychology, reward and motivation. People are tired of this ignorant game design.
 
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And... the only longevity is sandbox and/or community.  Look at EVE for the prime example of sandbox and a fairly toxic but interesting community.
 
Grinding dailies or using LFG tools is neither.
 
WS has building blocks, but didn't actually use them.  (Yet?)  They just remade WoW again with telegraphs, new mistakes, and heck, old mistakes thrown in just for fun.
 
And hey, just for extra flair, they have a voice insult players when they die.  That'll never annoy anyone, right?  Not just if a player dies more than a couple times, but EVERY time a bug or glitch results in death.  Annoying players is the... final frontier for games?  Oh, no wait, it's stupid.	
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			As I watch the nexus report and see players asking about items or other things, it dons on me that some don't realize the majority player base is empty. Can't do some quest without assistance. O well..	
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I... actually liked the randomness with gear. I found it made gear pleasantly diverse, and since the game benefits from actual gameplay (dodging, telegraph uptime, positioning, etc) being more important in preformance than gear stats in many cases; it seemed to be a working system that made useable pieces available from several sources depending on how lucky you got with drops. Unfortunately, it clashed with peoples perceptions of 'best in slot' gearing, and plenty of folks hated the system. Obviously YMMV, but I personally liked it. Others have commented that they did as well, but some felt it should have come with higher drop rates, so that you would get lots of gear; but the RNG would mean only some of it would be terribly useful to you (while the rest could be AH fodder for others with poor luck that could benefit from stats combos you couldn't). Such systems worked well in the Diablo series, and could have worked well here as well with some tweaks.
 
The fixes that are coming for runes and AP/SP are definitely good.... but I thought the system itself was pretty good. On a more personal note, I find it tremendously ironic that you use that quote from Assimov... as it honestly infers that you should STFU and accept the game world as crafted by Carbine. But that's another story :)
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			What players want is to have fun, not a second fulltime job, which carbine does not seem to understand. They think gamers crave EQ all over again. Only a small number of players do. A game cant survive without casual gamers.	
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What players want is to have fun, not a second fulltime job, which carbine does not seem to understand. They think gamers crave EQ all over again. Only a small number of players do. A game cant survive without casual gamers.
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			I wish a game would look at what was succesful in other games and put them together (pvpwise). Why not use a newbie zone you already have and add some bosses in a fort already used in PvE and make it so we can take them over ala Warhammer. Make it so when we take over 3 out of whatever and our faction gets a pvp buff. Own them all and and we get something, whatever. It can be one damn zone, hell you have huge zones in this game no one even uses ffs. You have BGs already...we need open PvP doesnt seem hard to me but im not a developer I just pay there bills with my money...or I don't when they fail.	
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I wish a game would look at what was succesful in other games and put them together (pvpwise). Why not use a newbie zone you already have and add some bosses in a fort already used in PvE and make it so we can take them over ala Warhammer. Make it so when we take over 3 out of whatever and our faction gets a pvp buff. Own them all and and we get something, whatever. It can be one damn zone, hell you have huge zones in this game no one even uses ffs. You have BGs already...we need open PvP doesnt seem hard to me but im not a developer I just pay there bills with my money...or I don't when they fail.
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Im new to W* like still leveling new and trying to decide whether its for me or not. 
 
My biggest qualm is that I felt when I jumped into the instanced content (not PvP) that W* kind of is really sync heavy from the get go. you need multiple people not simultaneously using interrupts at the wrong time and people simultaneously using it at the right time and that doesnt seem to be working well in my PUGS.
 	
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Why cant games be like "Ok in vanilla wow A and B was good. In warhammer online C was good. In Rift D was good. In Final Fantasy E was good and in Aion F was good. In TBC G was good. Now lets make a game that has these elements."
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What players want is to have fun, not a second fulltime job, which carbine does not seem to understand. They think gamers crave EQ all over again. Only a small number of players do. A game cant survive without casual gamers.
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***Snipped***
 
Side note: How many 'hardcores' actually got Silver without exploiting the $hit out stuff in the first place.  End Side Note
 
Seems to me they have already looked into fixing this game that has real promise.
1) Silver to Bronze.
2) A solid gear progression that gives players a reason to keep beating their heads against the wall.
 
No idea how they will implement this, but IMO it should be very simply. Reputation gear / world drops get you into Vet Adv. Vet Adv should drop gear which allows you to get into Vet Dungeons. Vet Dungeons should drop gear that get you into raiding. And gear should drop every single time I kill the boss. For the hardcore out there, you do realize there is Orange and Pink equipment right? You can still have a solid gear progression and still have super unique gear drops that make everyone's jaw drop. 
 
I understand this game was meant for the 1%. If I have to move on because I'm not the 1% so be it I'll just put my money elsewhere, but I believe Carbine has realize that the 1% isn't enough to keep a game alive and healthy. The server population is a clear indication that 1% isn't enough. The game is seriously dying if not dead. 
 
I feel they should stop waiting for ultra drops once a month, and instead implement small changes that have real meaning. Then if such changes cause bugs, then fix the bugs related to that change, and then, and only then move on to next meaningful change. 
 
A quick outline to get the game on track and stop the massive lose of subs would be... 
1) Silver to Bronze like yesterday
2) Solid gear progression (carrot for us to follow) 
3) Character balance / fix the exploits
3.1) PVP Fixes / balancing (I stopped PvPing in this game a while ago, but I know its all f-ed up)
4) Misc (dye system is pure junk) 
5) New Content "Ultra Drop" 
 
Personally, if Carbine fixed 1 - 3 within the month, I'd have no issue waiting an additional 2 more months for new content. It would give me something to work for and help my guild get ready for raiding. 
 
Just my two cents. Sorry for the wall. LOL 
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People seem to criminalize Wildstar/Carbine for the lack of "things" to do, but it's practically the same in most MMOs after a period. Ultimately, you are left with daily quests, and if you're lucky, a daily dungeon. Daily dungeons are in the works for this game.
 
The only "issue" I see is that in other games I could PUG some dungeons if I had a spare hour or two mid day, but in Wildstar PUGs are too brainless/unwilling to coordinate to complete anything other than adventures.But that is a win/loss situation, because playtime with friends is much more fun.
 
Simply put, I log into Wildstar for the raiding and when I get poked for a dungeon. You aren't going to get very far if you insist an MMO is "your only game". I have FFXIV and Dark Souls 2 on the side, along with a few smaller indie titles.	
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Don't know what the prognosis is, but I'm having a blast. Best 5 man content I've ever played.
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This is my view too. I'm aware that plenty of people have left the game, and I'm not sure why. I certainly don't see anything as fun out there. Hopefully there are enough people out there to play with. That's all I want, not the next WoW, just more of what we've already got in Wildstar.
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I'd like to think the game has a future, because I have thoroughly enjoyed a lot that this game has to offer, and maybe the groundwork is there for something really decent, as of right now, the only advice I can give Carbine is to do a FF14 and go back into development and re-release later on. 
 
The monotony of end-game is excruciating.
The RNG is hideous
The Elitism is hideous, I even turned into one of them
PvP is a mess
The classes don't know what they wanna be (Well Esper)
Barren Lowbie Zones, drives new players away, alts aren't encouraged
No economy, I mean who has ever vendored so much crap?
Bad loot tables
Bad itemization
Horrific optimization
People leaving in droves
Guilds Cant survive
No one to Recuit. 
 
It goes on
 
I must have a run vet siege around 200+ times, no exaggeration, for the epic Pysblade, I saw it once - I lost the die roll to another esper. 
The issue is, siege is really easy for people to mess up. The amount of times I failed siege in the first few seconds because nobody went south to cut off the troops, despite me telling beforehand the positions of the soldiers, and where everyone should be is astonishing. (I'm usually Healing)
 
These problems are exacerbated and made intolerable, by the low drop rate, how easy it is to fail, and then the stupid, stupid RNG on rune slots and the like. 
 
This game wasnt fun for me anymore, this type of grinding is not fun. 
 
Because of these mechanics, I was forced into only settling for gold runs - I became a person that would demand disbands, would leave instances, would yell at people for being damn right moronic.
 
Why should I want to have to wait for 30 minute queues for an adventure I've ran 100s of times, to fail in the first minute, and then have people kp failing the disband to just add to the misery, to maybe get that 0.4% drop rate psyblade, that for the love off all that is holy, maybe has the right rune slots.
 
Seriously this is messed up.
 
This isn't hardcore, this is moronic, this shows no understanding of human psychology.
 
What's worse, there is so much that I haven't even touched on.
 
I loaded up Tera - I can't believe how beautiful that game is, how well it runs, how full it is. The low zones are crawling with players, the chat is always buzzing, there are 5000+ guilds on the one EU server that I am on - I spoke to guild recuiting, that were made last week - already have over 100 members.
 
This is insane compared to the state of the playerbase in wildstar.
 
I'm sorry to anyone who things the game is in good shape, because comparably it isn't, don't get me wrong, I'd like it to be. I made some great friends. I had some good times. 
 
Go back into development Carbine. No one will fault you for that. 
 
Oh and if anyone is unaware - ARCHEAGE is out in 2 weeks. 	
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I must have a run vet siege around 200+ times, no exaggeration, for the epic Pysblade, I saw it once - I lost the die roll to another esper.
 
 
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Ugh, I'm with Lethality on this: Your attitude is the problem.
 
You do not need that fricking Psyblade. You never did.
 
You wasted your time even trying to get it after realizing drop rates were so low. This "I must get the BiS as dictated by the item ranking lists" mentality of MMO gamers is absolutely crazy. Like... literally crazy. Obsessive compulsive disorder type of pure, unadulterated crazy. I have no words for how much I loathe WoW for pretty much making it the genre standard.
 
HA - I can do bold and big too. 
 
Well tell me what else is there to do in game that has lost it's player base, with guilds that can't recruit and/or maintain it's member base, when pvp is broken due to exploits and queues for dungeons and adventures being unbearably long? 
 
Other than to grind for gear?
 
My attitude was fine the first 100 attempts, it got a little more impatient the next 100 - Which I think you can agree is understandable, not just for me, but we already know that wildstar has a toxic player base. 
 
Now, enough with the big and bold, and come down from your high horse. 
 
It's not a bad things criticizing the game, as long as you're being productive
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HA - I can do bold and big too. 
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			The problem is the end game content is structured for a niche player base, and there is no other content once someone hits end game. PVP isn't that great, and a new content drop can be burned through in a day or so.  There is zero to do for the casual player once he or she reaches 50.  If devs  want the game to be all about the hardcore at max level, then that player base is going to whittle itself down to that niche group of people, and let's face it, a game cannot be sustained with a player base that small.	
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And then they unsub. Because they chose not to do what was there. Because what was there didn't interest them. 
 
The list of businesses that went under because the customer was too stupid to want what the business was selling at the price the business was selling it is essentially infinite. 
 
Oh, those stupid, stupid consumers. Lazy, entitled, weak, pathetic consumers. How DARE they not like what I have to sell? Wanting to spend their money on the stuff they LIKE instead of the stuff that's GOOD FOR THEM? Buying ice cream instead of broccoli? Going to see the latest Michael Bay Robot-Smash-A-Thon instead of art house films? Wanting to drive automatic instead of stick shift? 
 
Consumers totally suck, man. 
 
But they're the ones with the money.
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Yeah, but apparently you still can't quote properly.  :rolleyes:
 
Anyway, this has nothing to do with me being on a high horse, it has everything to do with you sabotaging your own potential fun. As I said, that many grind runs is, to me, approaching literal insanity (Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Ring any bells?)
Of course you would start to hate the game after such a grind.
 
Rest of your post is nonsense.
You're arguing the game lost its playerbase because of grind, then you argue you only have grinding left to do because the game lost its playerbase. Notice the problem with that "logic"?
If you think there's nothing to do, stop playing. That is fine, I wouldn't even have replied if you had written that.
But wasting your time on 200 runs and then crying that drops are bad is just.... yeah. Crazy.
 
The problem with your attitude wasn't that you got frustrated after 100 runs, but that you felt the obsessive need to get that one item.
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Also, WS has ruined non-action MMOs for me. I can't go back to standing still.
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			Love the game! Keep attunements the way they are! Bring back gold medal adventures! Merge the freakin servers already! I've been 50 since day 3 of early access (no alts) and anybody whining that there is nothing to do end game is just flat-out wrong. If all you do is log in, do your dailies, then log out; that's not Carbine's fault... it's your's for being a lazy *cupcake*. I even saw some guy in this thread crying abiut hiw his daily data ration should just be GIVEN to him by mail in case he misses a day... REALLY!? I think a lot of you need to read the definition of "game" then try to figure out why you even play them if you don't really wanna do anything at all. Love the game, Carbije. Keep it aimed at hardcore, there plenty of garbage for the entitlement players to sift through... and merge the freakin servers already!	
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Just got back from watching Ghostbusters on the Big Screen.  (Hilarious, even 30 years later.)  And.. you know.. there's one scene in that movie that I now relate to all these "What's with Wildstar?" "What's the future?" "What's the Status?"
 
 
"How's Wildstar holding up?"
"Tell him about the twinkie."
"....what about.. ....the twinkie?"	
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After reading some posts above I see the elitist and condescending attitude that comes with hardcore players and that is maybe worst thing in any MMO.
 
Peace
 
PS: Flame away.	
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			Game is losing players at a rapid rate. Anyone who thinks not has their heads buried in the sand. A lot of mid to top guilds are falling apart because there just aren't enough players so the recruitment pool is low and attrition is high. This mega patch won't change a thing most people left this game with a bad taste in their mouth. I knew a long time ago since beta that the hardcore model made no sense and that is with me being a hardcore player. It's just all nostalgia	
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Also, WS has ruined non-action MMOs for me. I can't go back to standing still.
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The problem is the end game content is structured for a niche player base, and there is no other content once someone hits end game. PVP isn't that great, and a new content drop can be burned through in a day or so.  There is zero to do for the casual player once he or she reaches 50.  If devs  want the game to be all about the hardcore at max level, then that player base is going to whittle itself down to that niche group of people, and let's face it, a game cannot be sustained with a player base that small.
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For me it's been the other way around. The highly-active combat was fun at first, but over the long term it was just plain exhausting. I've heard this sentiment echoed in a lot of other forums as well.  Sure, intense combat sounds good up front and plays well in the short term, but it really wears you out when you have to do it non-stop, particularly in the timed dungeons. Some folks have even gotten RSIs from all the constant mousing. 
 
I found going back to something slower-paced to be a relief. Wildstar never lets you just relax and play.  I mentioned this to my best friend (who doesn't game but who likes to hear me yak about them for some reason) and we had an interesting discussion about people who go to amusement parks to ride the roller coasters and people who go just to eat cotton candy and ride the merry-go-round.  She's a roller coaster fanatic who will drive for an entire day just to ride her favorite coasters, but she absolutely knows that her favorite parks can't stay open on the income from her and the other members of the American Coaster Enthusiasts club.  It needs the local families to come in for the day with grandma and the kids, and grandma and the kids need fun stuff to do as well.  
 
Point is:  roller coasters are fun, but I don't want to ride them all day long non-stop when I go to the amusement park.  My friend absolutely does -- she and her coaster fan friends are all about the "Exclusive Ride Time", or ERT, when they get to just ride the coaster non-stop without all the other people around clogging things up. She will be deliriously happy if she gets to ride a coaster fifteen times in a row non-stop.  I would just be sick to my stomach. 
 
But here's something important: the coaster fans don't give the merry-go-rounders and water-parkers crap just because they don't want to ride coasters all day.  There's no such thing as a "baddie" or "scrub" park-goer.  That's an online-game specific subculture poison that I wish people would stop spreading.  
 
Anyway, I see Wildstar's combat style as very much "all roller coaster all day."  Some folks love that, but it makes a lot of others just want to throw up. 
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Interesting analogy.  However, you could say that Wildstar is for coaster enthusiasts and some other MMOs are for grandma and the kids.  The market is big enough to accommodate them all--even if not in the same game.   
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Doing it commentary style because there's a lot of different stuff to address.
 
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I was staying in the game, doing the only thing available left for me to go because of all the countless other mistakes that led ppl to leave, so I could support the game. It is absolutely borderline obsessive to run that many adventures, but the amount of things to do in end game is severely limited, monotonous and boring.
 
I can no longer support this game, I unsubbed yesterday.
 
Up to now, we're fine. That's all you really needed to write in my opinion.
 
I was behaving in way I didn't want to behave and it wasn't healthy. I brought it up though, because this issue isn't just mine. I've never played a hardcore MMO before, I've never been an elitist player, but this game certainly turned me into an arse. Well at the very least, more of an arse. 
 
A game cannot "make" you behave differently unless you let it. Take responsibility for your own behavior. This is just pathetic.
 
Everyone is aware of the issue of people disbanding early because they didn't get gold. Everyone is aware of the long queue times, everyone is aware that the desire for ppl to want to do dungeons after they've got attuned is limited, almost non-existent, because of what it took for a lot of us to get there. 
 
Uh... I'm aware of these things too. Did you check some of the other threads in this section? Like this one?
 
It's unfair to call me out and attack me, when reading any post previous with highlight the same problems. 
 
I didn't call you out specifically, I said your attitude perfectly demonstrated a gamer mentality I abhor. It's nothing personal, your post just happened to be the perfect example.
 
It's damaging to blinding support a game in spite of it's flaws. 
 
Again...check around the forums, heh.
 
It wasn't that I felt I needed that pysblade,
 
Then you shouldn't have run the adventure 200 times. You chose to do this. It's not the game's fault. End of story.
It's somewhat admirable you did it (partially) because you wanted to keep supporting the game despite not really being into it anymore, but this was still you, not the game.
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{| class="blockquote"
A roller-coaster only park couldn't survive. 
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
Never been to six-flags Magic Mountain eh? 
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{| class="blockquote"
Interesting analogy.  However, you could say that Wildstar is for coaster enthusiasts and some other MMOs are for grandma and the kids.  The market is big enough to accommodate them all--even if not in the same game.   
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			I have recently watched a film which is similar to Wildstar with it's path. By that I mean the film's plot and the way Wildstar is going are similar. The film is called The Man in the White Suit.	
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{| class="blockquote"
 
Lemme recap: 
 
Me: "Not enough merry go rounds. Too many intense roller coasters." 
 
White Knight: "There are merry go rounds!"
 
Me: "Sucky rusty ones."
 
White Knight: "But they EXIST! So stop complaining and keep forking over that sub money! Carbine tried! It's not their fault if you don't appreciate their efforts!"
 
Me: "It's nice that they tried, but close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes. If they want my sub money, trying won't cut the mustard.  They have to actually succeed. (Pause)  It's kind of like their dungeon and raid design philosophy, isn't it? How ironic." 
----
			
 I don't think turning this ship around and gaining subs back won't be as futile as some believe theres still a chance for this game to get back up to speed... the devs just need to put aside pride for a bit ( i dont blame them aesthetically this is a very well done mmo ) and start implementing features and adjusting current content so the amusement ride doesn't feel so rocky and misaligned.
 
One advantage that carbine has is that this game has always been somewhat low key compared to other releases. So a lot of the population of gamers still haven't heard or know to much about this game. Carbine will have to do some kind of damage control ad campaign to regain the posture but not until the game is where it should be and this should be decided by the devs as well as community feedback..
 
The only thing working against carbine right now to make the necessary changes is time. When things get rocky impatience starts increasing amongs the community. So the sooner the bettter.
 
Many of us have been through several mmo startups and many here can agree unlike alot of the other mmo's who's flaws were way beyond some adjustments.. can all agree this game has a lot of potential. Probably more so than many of the other mmo's that have come and gone.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Love the game! Keep attunements the way they are! Bring back gold medal adventures! Merge the freakin servers already! I've been 50 since day 3 of early access (no alts) and anybody whining that there is nothing to do end game is just flat-out wrong. If all you do is log in, do your dailies, then log out; that's not Carbine's fault... it's your's for being a lazy *cupcake*. I even saw some guy in this thread crying abiut hiw his daily data ration should just be GIVEN to him by mail in case he misses a day... REALLY!? I think a lot of you need to read the definition of "game" then try to figure out why you even play them if you don't really wanna do anything at all. Love the game, Carbije. Keep it aimed at hardcore, there plenty of garbage for the entitlement players to sift through... and merge the freakin servers already!
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
you not liking something =/= it not being fun
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{| class="blockquote"
A roller-coaster only park couldn't survive. Coasters are big draws for certain demographics, but they are VERY expensive to build and to maintain. The analogy is spot on.
 
A kiddie-only park could survive, but it wouldn't draw people from hundreds of miles away like a fancy new coaster will.  Fancy new coasters get the press releases. 
 
The most successful parks have something for the whole family.  
 
But the important thing with regard to park-goers is that It's a symbiotic relationship, not a competition between groups. A lot of the toxicity in the MMO community comes from the idea that providing content for one group means the other group gets shafted. This is insane.
 
My point, however, was not so much "Roller coasters vs. merry-go-rounds" as it was a commentary on how some folks prefer more intense fun and some folks prefer more relaxing fun.  My guess is that most MMORPG fans are on the "relaxing" end of the spectrum, because otherwise they'd be out cliff-climbing without a safety harness, or at least kicking around in LoL and DotA instead of in an MMORPG.  When I stop to think about it, the idea of an "intense" MMORPG experience just seems like it doesn't make a lot of sense.
 
I can't see too many people going to an MMORPG for intensity, is what I'm saying. At least not for intensity over the long haul instead of for short controlled bursts of time. One ride on the roller coaster as opposed to fifteen in a row seems more like the typical MMORPG player desired intensity level.
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{| class="blockquote"
After reading some posts above I see the elitist and condescending attitude that comes with hardcore players and that is maybe worst thing in any MMO.
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{| class="blockquote"
**SIGH** Look, cupcake. it's not just me. You know it, I know it, Carbine knows it. Very few casuals are finding anything interesting about the end game. They post here. The post on Reddit. They post on MMO-Champion. And the vast majority of them don't post at all. They just quit because casuals mostly don't visit forums. You are White Knighting when you act like I'm a lone voice crying in the wilderness. 
 
Stop pretending like I'm a singular anomaly. I'm not.
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{| class="blockquote"
**SIGH** Look, cupcake. it's not just me. You know it, I know it, Carbine knows it.  Very few casuals are finding anything interesting about the end game. They post here. The post on Reddit. They post on MMO-Champion. And the vast majority of them don't post at all. They just quit because casuals mostly don't visit forums. You are White Knighting when you act like I'm a lone voice crying in the wilderness. 
 
Stop pretending like I'm a singular anomaly.  I'm not.  Yes, there are a few folks who like the housing. I liked it too, but you need a lot of gold and patience to do very much with it, and you need people to come and admire what you've done. (Working around the item limits is irritating too.)  I'm cheering on the Evindrites for all I'm worth as they appear to be getting what they want from Wildstar.  But they are in the minority, as you know damned well.  
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{| class="blockquote"
 
 
You and yours really are a vociferous minority. 
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A game tailor made and marketed to the "hardcore crowd" and end game oriented towards "hardcore raiders" ends up having a lower population than compared to much more easy going MMO's?
 
Shocker.
 
They gave what they promised(with hiccups, what game doesn't have them though on launch?), and people still aren't happy.
 
Also, who knew that hardcores made up a minority of MMO players?  I would have never guessed. :rolleyes:
 
This game will never have a huge population by design, unless of course they change their design philosophy and then the hardcores will be unhappy.	
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{| class="blockquote"
A game tailor made and marketed to the "hardcore crowd" and end game oriented towards "hardcore raiders" ends up having a lower population than compared to much more easy going MMO's?
 
Shocker.
 
They gave what they promised(with hiccups, what game doesn't have them though on launch?), and people still aren't happy.
 
Also, who knew that hardcores made up a minority of MMO players?  I would have never guessed. :rolleyes:
 
This game will never have a huge population by design, unless of course they change their design philosophy and then the hardcores will be unhappy.
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{| class="blockquote"
 
But don't fool yourself, cupcake. The game is not doing well overall, and with WoD around the corner it's going to take another heavy hit in the near future.  Will Carbine be able to turn it around? Will NCSoft be satisfied? If not, how long will it take them to force a F2P conversion or even just shut down the servers as they did with Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa? Will the game settle into a niche composed of a few hundred satisfied raiders and the population of Evindra as their only source of income? For all I know some of the folks over on Evindra are willing to be Whales for Carbine and buy hundreds of dollars of CREDD a month to keep things going -- and if so, more power to them!  
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{| class="blockquote"
Keep defending the pathological unbalanced levels of RNG in this game and you will end up playing a solo RPG. It conflates complexity with randomness and signals complete ignorance abou human psychology, reward and motivation. People are tired of this ignorant game design.
 
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{| class="blockquote"
  So I'm coming from an unusual position, which is why I even post here; without CREDD I'd have been long gone. 
----
			Still playing and still enjoying the game.  Housing and crafting are sort of my endgame at the moment, though - I'm playing five alts and spending a fair amount of time decorating five differently themed housing plots.  The desire for new housing and costume items has been driving my progression through most of the rest of the game for the last few weeks.	
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To me, this game seems to be suffering from the decision to excise content from the game to ensure "content drops" for over a year after release.
 
If you have seen some of the original maps for the game, you will find a lot of the issues with content, story, and just in general stuff to twiddle with while waiting for queues or raids, would not be as apperant as they are now.
 
People would be saying the game is too big then, not too small (overall I mean) 
 
I have to prod myself with "future content" to play now, I just log in to get my rep and EG up and soon enough I'll be at max rep, waiting for those Points that were promised in future content. Other than that, its just raids and maybe helping people in dungeons even though I'd rather cut myself (sometimes) This game is too damn small Carbine, and I found out I wanted more soon after I got to 50! Delaying content even more is not earning you many favors!
 
Sorry, I get a little caught up in my statements about shelving content and art/models that are essentially done... My POV as of this time, in summary, is that Carbine needs to act fast on many issues lest things become... unpleasant. 	
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I don't see myself re-subscribing right now. Casual player here with limited play time. I've been playing mmo games since SWG.
 
Post "launch swarm"...
  
Bugs in general... Fundamental gameplay bugs: Selection bugs. Damage areas that extend beyond the telegraphs. Combat movement bugs. Skill bugs. Mission bugs. 
 
The game world combat missions get to be a tedious solo grind instead of enjoyable. World map teaming/grouping is actively discouraged by game mechanics and bugs. Now, add empty servers to that.
 
PVE enemy densities and spawn rates in certain places are too high. Wonderful if there are other players on, but... empty servers. Solo combat can just be flatly unenjoyable in those places because actually moving around to avoid telegraphs will only get you killed faster. So will trying to read any dialog or lore. Speaking of which: could the phone call missions be more poorly timed than many currently are? 
 
PVE balance. Inconsistent to say the least. Some easy mobs, then certain regular (regular, mind you) enemies at level that can almost one-shot you. Those also seem to be the ones with the ridiculously large/long (and, of course, usually circular) telegraphs. You learn to dread those far worse than the bosses, which are normally easier than many of their minions.
 
Team play is enjoyable on this game, more's the pity. Crafting, housing, and role playing are enjoyable here. All-in-all, this game has a lot going for it except, unfortunately, the main content. 
 
Free-to-play may actually help this game survive longer than it otherwise would.	
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I'm seeing a lot of different views on how the game is at the moment. So im just going to give my story and let everyone else decide if there is a problem or not.
 
I started playing after my younger brother gave me a 7 day (lvl 20) trial. I blew through that in about a day and decided "this game seems nice, kind of few players but if they do something about the population issues i will love it." so i followed the linear quest path and made my way to 50 and even explored every inch of every zone for the achievements. Hit max level in my path (solider) before i made it to Malgrave. Getting from 1 to 50 took me about a week of decently intensive gaming sessions.
When i hit 50 i joined a friendly social guild which had a tab on their webiste that said "best in slot" so i went to that page and checked under the tab "DPS Warrior" and noticed that 7 of those items were craftable. I spent about 20 minutes grinding some ores and bought the rest of the mats. Asked a guildmate to craft me the stuff and bam. 7 / 12 best in slot. The things i have still need is the 1800 arena weapon and 4 boe world drop epics. So... i had been 50 for about half an hour and was now geared enough to start doing veteran adventures and dungeons so i pugged a few vet adventures... almost got silver or gold every time. Then my Elder Gem cap was reached and i bought myself a Genesis key. The next day i did the first part of the quest and then all of my silver adventures also grinded my way through blighthaven and crimson badland daylies. The day after that i got myself to 5/13.
 
Then i decided "i like pvping so i might aswell do some pvp to get my full blue pvp gear", 2 days of practise battlegrounds and i had that covered. Then a few days of helping guilds with different things, small surges of RBG's because well... losing RBGs makes me feel like shit since there is very little teamplay from pugs and dominion usually crushes us so hard that i dont want to lose more rating that day.
 
Now fast forward 3 days of that and i've played the game for about 2.5 weeks and im done with attunement. I've got 6 pieces of the epic RBG gear. I complete all daylies in 2 hours tops... depending on how focused i am. I've tried to make alts.... got a lvl 16 stalker and a lvl 21 esper but alts in this game is increadibly boring since all you do is follow the exactly same quest line over and over. You dont meet any new players since there are no low level guilds with more than 2-3 active players so you end up joining your main guild anyway. And the open world while leveling is basicly empty.
 
I've even bought C.R.E.D.D for 12 plat to be able to play untill the 14th of october but i am honestly not sure if i want to sit and do 2 hours of daylies + helping guild mates get attuned for a month. Perhaps log on once in a while to raid or lose all my RBG rating.
 
---
Now to the long awaited list of faults with this game (in my opinion):
Linear leveling and quest path. No variaty between characters except for the first 20 or so levels where there is a slight difference between dominion and exile. After leveling on toon past 20 on both factions and 2 characters on each faction past lvl 14. You got no reason at all to make a new character. And its not fun to make a new character.
Too much best in slot gear from crafting. Combine that with lots of best in slot gear from world drops and you got a recipe for low incentive to do adventures / dungeons.
Veteran Adventures and Swordmaiden Normal is basicly the only content you got to play at 50 as a casual player or as a hardcore player trying to relax. There needs to be a normal versions of all dungeons for lvl 50 that drops decent gear.
Rated Battlegrounds. This is actually not a bad idea, but it sucks very very hard with such a low population. You often end up playing with the same players against the same players. So after getting completly destroyed 2-3 times you give up since you know you will only be losing rating from playing more. Also high rated players have increadibly long queues since very few players are 1800+. The usual "honor points" or whatever you want to call it battleground system is already good. Even if you lose you dont get further away from getting your gear. Yea sure PvP is supposed to be played because its fun. But it takes away a lot of the fun by knowing you aint getting something from it... just basicly sitting there getting owned by the other faction and feeding them rating while getting yourself futher away from your gear upgrades.
Zone events and world bosses are a joke due to the fact that they either dont drop anything. Or only drop crap. Once again back to the problem that too much of the best in slot gear is crafted or obtained by very rare world drops.
I'm sure i could find more issues with this game if i were looking. But these are the ones that i just got forced on me by experiancing the game as it is right now. A huge population spike would solve a lot of these problems but we wont be seeing anything like that unless there are other major changes to the game.
 
---With that said, i've really enjoyed this game so far. The ride has been amazing. But that is probably because im one of those guys who enjoy sitting on teamspeak with 4 people and do something challenging rather than pug a group and just mash one button. The 5 man content in this game is some of the best i've ever experienced. I am just sad that there was basicly 2 weeks of things for me to do. I could've easily spent another month or so grinding dungeons and adventures for gear upgrades but there are none. Unless i get a drop of an item with an absurd amount of runeslots because perhaps i was unlucky with one of my crafted pieces and got a terrible runeslot or something. But grinding, for example. Crimelords of Whitevale for a Shield that might be better than mine IF it has its maxed amount of runeslots (3) and all of them are fire or fusion. And i've seen it drop twice. Both times i had 1 runeslot (I've done Crimelords of Whitevale like 30 times but i decided to just buy my best in slot world drop epic from the auction house instead... its not very expensive just 10 plat).
 
So... theres my story and my thoughts on this game. And before all the craft-o-maniacs come here and say that they want more good items to craft and that having half your gear be bis by crafting isnt a problem. I agree with you to some extent... for example i am going to test Archeage during their open beta that starts on thursday... which is a game where economy is 100% player driven and all best in slot items are crafted. That is ok with a game like Archeage where PvE is a secondary thing and crafting / pvp is the main focus of the game. Wildstar is however focused on its PvE content and there is basicly no reason to do PvE except to get attuned for GA.
 
Regards,Commander Juddy	
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{| class="blockquote"
Yet another unintended consiquence of the CREDD system.
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{| class="blockquote"
That's your opinion. Pretty much all of Evindra disagrees with you, as do plenty of other folks who are really enjoying other features in the game.
 
----
			
Current state of the game = Limbo
 
So much is going to change in drop 3 i feel stuck. We know all these great changes are in the pipe but what do we do while waiting for them to arrive.
I'm really looking forward to fixing all the good gear with bad rune slots. Also looking forward to a clear and well defined gear path for upgrading.
 
I'm hoping they throw us a bone and give us something in the next week or two to keep us going. Adding ability/amp points to the vendors or adding the new rune sets would be a nice start	
----
			
In my option, the colossal train wreck that is attunement may finally be banished from the MMO industry as a whole after Wildstar's resoundingly negative implementation:
 
Pyralos tests you patience -- not your skill -- with an obscene respawn timer. Oh, it also warns you that the content Devs don't talk with the class Devs, since apparently void slip/homeward bound is simply too awesome to not arbitrarily arm bosses with telegraphs that follow you in there...
 
32,000 rep with the exiles tests you mindless drudgery mitigation, not your raid-readiness.
 
Having adventures, dungeons, and world bosses all on different steps so helping your friends means you get nothing for progress unless you are on the exact same step tests your charity, not your skill.	
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Those complaining about the RNG of rune slots from dungeon/adventure loot should also add 20man raids to that list. before I quit I had a bank full of epics that had crap rune slots. I know carbine is going to address this issue "sometime". Too little, too late for me. While I appreciate the difficulty of some of the content (in terms of focus and not-blinking) after finally downing a 20man boss, and finding that the loot is at best a side-grade is very disappointing and demotivating.
 
clearing higher-level content traditionally has a two-tiered reward system; one internal ,in terms of *pride* or self satisfaction, and one external, in terms of gear that is better and better looking than the stuff below it. Tried and tested fundamentals of mmos imo 	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
A game tailor made and marketed to the "hardcore crowd" and end game oriented towards "hardcore raiders" ends up having a lower population than compared to much more easy going MMO's?
 
Shocker.
 
They gave what they promised(with hiccups, what game doesn't have them though on launch?), and people still aren't happy.
 
Also, who knew that hardcores made up a minority of MMO players?  I would have never guessed. :rolleyes:
 
This game will never have a huge population by design, unless of course they change their design philosophy and then the hardcores will be unhappy.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So how do you explain 29 servers at release? 
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{| class="blockquote"
Current state of the game = Limbo
 
So much is going to change in drop 3 i feel stuck. We know all these great changes are in the pipe but what do we do while waiting for them to arrive.
I'm really looking forward to fixing all the good gear with bad rune slots. Also looking forward to a clear and well defined gear path for upgrading.
 
I'm hoping they throw us a bone and give us something in the next week or two to keep us going. Adding ability/amp points to the vendors or adding the new rune sets would be a nice start
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
So how do you explain 29 servers at release? if carbine was so right on the money with the kind of numbers they are going to attract why not open up with less servers? to me it seems they clearly overestimated the hardcore crowd.
 
This is not a darkfall or mortal online esque low budget indie MMO which can survive on few thousand players. i guess you know nothing about Ncsoft and how quick they are to kill MMOS which do not bring them profit.
 
Ncsoft is the worst choice as publishers if you want to make a 'niche' MMO. Trying to please small minority of hardcore is what causing them the trouble.
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{| class="blockquote"
So how do you explain 29 servers at release? if carbine was so right on the money with the kind of numbers they are going to attract why not open up with less servers? to me it seems they clearly overestimated the hardcore crowd.
 
This is not a darkfall or mortal online esque low budget indie MMO which can survive on few thousand players. i guess you know nothing about Ncsoft and how quick they are to kill MMOS which do not bring them profit.
 
Ncsoft is the worst choice as publishers if you want to make a 'niche' MMO. Trying to please small minority of hardcore is what causing them the trouble.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
In my option, the colossal train wreck that is attunement may finally be banished from the MMO industry as a whole after Wildstar's resoundingly negative implementation:
 
Pyralos tests you patience -- not your skill -- with an obscene respawn timer. Oh, it also warns you that the content Devs don't talk with the class Devs, since apparently void slip/homeward bound is simply too awesome to not arbitrarily arm bosses with telegraphs that follow you in there...
 
32,000 rep with the exiles tests you mindless drudgery mitigation, not your raid-readiness.
 
Having adventures, dungeons, and world bosses all on different steps so helping your friends means you get nothing for progress unless you are on the exact same step tests your charity, not your skill.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It tests patience and dedication. That`s why it`s there. And a good thing too. I`d rather have more attunements than less.
----
			
Attunements are usually done as a way to test the player's awareness, dedication and "eye on the ball" capabilities.
 
Point to me any part of the current Attunement that hones in on any of the traits described.	
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{| class="blockquote"
Attunements are usually done as a way to test the player's awareness, dedication and "eye on the ball" capabilities.
 
Point to me any part of the current Attunement that hones in on any of the traits described.
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{| class="blockquote"
Attunements are usually done as a way to test the player's awareness, dedication and "eye on the ball" capabilities.
 
Point to me any part of the current Attunement that hones in on any of the traits described.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Pretty much all of it except the silver medal requirement.  While I don't think adventure, dungeon, and world boss clearing are going to prepare you for raiding, I can certainly say nobody that can't do those three things have any business walking into a raid.  If you can't handle five man group mechanics, you won't be able to handle splitting and reforming in a 20 man.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ncsoft is the worst choice as publishers if you want to make a 'niche' MMO. Trying to please small minority of hardcore is what causing them the trouble.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Ok so I don't know when it became cool to just bash on NCSoft.... but have you SEEN their games? The Lineage Series, Aion, BLADE AND SOUL!
 
NCSoft has some stellar games that it's produced. Wildstar may or may not be exactly what Carbine hoped it would be... but NCSoft has a history of some really great games. People always love to point out that games that were handled improperly /tanked on the development end are cut off quick by NCsoft, but always conveniently ignore market context.
 
Remember the best PvP MMO in recent history (Warhammer Online).. remember how it was closeted after just a few years running because... of all things.... Games Workshop wouldn't renew their license to the Warhammer IP?
 
NCSoft does a pretty good job; and realistically you can't have a solid production company with out knowing when to fold on a bad egg. 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
Naz, it's one thing to put a positive spin on things, but do you honestly think the game is in a good place right now? If so, I want whatever it is you're drinking :)
 
----
			
Perhaps the most intriguing thing for me is the possibility of this gameworld becoming a great success. I do love the concept and much to my surprise the gameplay mechanics are incredibly addictive and fast.
 
E-sports and Wildstar has been one of the things I personally expect to see more of in the future.
 
Strategic choices by the development can make this an incredible top choice MMO in the years to come and I can see why the core mechanics of Wildstar have many people excited with the game.
 
The world and the story is literally open and free to expand in any direction without the fear of being shut down by a license (I was there when WAR was closing *sob*). The gameplay is fast and exciting and can invite the interest of many different types of players and finally the artstyle is top notch, again creating incredible possibilities into anything from comics to animation to even movies.
 
If the team that made this game is as skilled as their product shows, I except great things.	
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
I think this game is heavily dependent on people working together and playing as a unit.
And it failed to take into account one very important thing.
 
Most people are assholes.
 
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
One of the main problems with this game is that that there really is no end-game for casual players. The faster carbine realizes that people don't care about, and don't want, more daily quest zones, the faster they can start coming out with content that is actually fun for casual players.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
It wasn't 29.
And they actually chose to open up more post-launch due to people's QQ about queues. Bad move on their part, but obviously more, not less people than they expected were interested in playing at launch.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
The bad move was to not use shards. I get the argument for not having them long term, but to cover the initial rush of players at launch, you need shards.
----
			
{| class="blockquote"
What is the alternative to making daily quest zones? What should the devs do?
----
			I think Aksu just became my new favorite poster.  :lol:	
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{| class="blockquote"
I think Aksu just became my new favorite poster.  :lol:
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{| class="blockquote"
Agreed and signed.
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{| class="blockquote"
Agreed and signed.
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{| class="blockquote"
Ooo. oooo. Pick me!!! Pick me!!!
 
*clears throat*
 
[...]
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{| class="blockquote"
Ok so I don't know when it became cool to just bash on NCSoft.... but have you SEEN their games? The Lineage Series, Aion, BLADE AND SOUL!
 
NCSoft has some stellar games that it's produced. Wildstar may or may not be exactly what Carbine hoped it would be... but NCSoft has a history of some really great games. People always love to point out that games that were handled improperly /tanked on the development end are cut off quick by NCsoft, but always conveniently ignore market context.
 
Remember the best PvP MMO in recent history (Warhammer Online).. remember how it was closeted after just a few years running because... of all things.... Games Workshop wouldn't renew their license to the Warhammer IP?
 
NCSoft does a pretty good job; and realistically you can't have a solid production company with out knowing when to fold on a bad egg. 
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{| class="blockquote"
Reading comprehension is very important. Re read again, i didn't bash Ncsoft. I simply stated that they aren't very generous when it comes to games that don't do well. Tabula Rasa lasted for even shorter time than WAR. On the other hand City of Heroes with its above average player base got shut down too although it was in much better state than Tabula Rasa.
 
All the Ncsoft games you mentioned were made for main stream audience and not niche crowd. When you think of 'niche' you don't think of Ncsoft. GW2 definitely not niche either.
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{| class="blockquote"
I --Loved-- Tabula Rasa.
 
But oh.. my.... gawd.... that game was horked after level 24. I don't mean kind of horked, like... we need to balance out classes, and fix a few bugs. I mean.... they didn't finish the game. Half the class abilities didn't work.... the clone system was terribad, and.... look, just to be honest, that game should have never been released and I think everyone figured that out near "endgame".
 
Its not even comparable to any other game, because I have never, ever, ever seen a game released with that kind of a horked problem. It made ESO look like a work of perfection, made TOR seem like a masterpiece....
 
I still loved it. But yeah, NCSOFT was right to shut that down.
 
COH on the other hand, shocked me. Particularly after COV... that game was actually about ten shades of awesome... not that it didn't have its own issues... but here's hoping they release another Superhero game along those lines.
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 I wanted to like that game. There was so many options.... but I just felt so weak in that game. Not just the amount of damage but  the feel of it. It's like I'm racking a guy with thorns jutting from my arms.... why does it feel like I'm tickling him?
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Reading comprehension is very important. Re read again, i didn't bash Ncsoft. I simply stated that they aren't very generous when it comes to games that don't do well. Tabula Rasa lasted for even shorter time than WAR. On the other hand City of Heroes with its above average player base got shut down too although it was in much better state than Tabula Rasa.
 
All the Ncsoft games you mentioned were made for main stream audience and not niche crowd. When you think of 'niche' you don't think of Ncsoft. GW2 definitely not niche either.
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